# Bada PH12 vis-a-vis Meixing MC66AE and Lehmann BC



## drarthurwells

The following is review of the Bada PH12.







 The Bada Ph12 may be the best headphone amp you can buy, if you are looking for an amp that combines the best qualities of a solid state amp with the best qualities of a tube amp. Let me explain.

 I used to listen to my Grado HP-2 and AKG 340 headphones though my David Hafler 110 pre-amp, a fine high end pre-amp that was designed also as a headphone amp. My Stax phones had their own amp, run through my speaker leads. I had many other headphones and earphones over time.

 A few years ago, I added a Headroom Cosmic for portable use in my car, with the Etymotic 4S and iRiver IMP400 CD player. Nice clean sound.

 Then I sold the Cosmic and added the Lehmann Black Cube linear – a great home solid state amp that really opened my ears, featuring Class A output stage (with no opamps and no global negative feedback in the output). The Cosmic's power supply, as a portable, could not match the superb power supply of the Lehmann, and it showed in the sound. I used the Lehmann in the car with an inverter. With the addition of the Eastsound E5 CD player, I had superb high end headphone sound with my Etymotic 4S, Sennheiser HD650 and later my Sony SA5000 headphones, powered by the Lehmann.

 I love the solid state's definition, detail, neutrality, focused sound images fixed in space to where you could easily point to them, bass that is deep, tight, and well defined, and the dynamics with lightening fast transients and impactful crescendos. The Lehmann’s clean amplification delivered the goods through my headphones.

 Only one problem – as with all solid state amps including the best Class A designs such as the Aleph (Pass labs) which I have listened to extensively. There is some leanness to the tone, a lack of body to the timbre that you can only fully capture with tubes. This can vary with particular amps but is inherent in transistor sound. 

 Then I was given a tube headphone amp by a dear friend visiting in Asia. This was a Meixing (Ming Da) MC66AE. It was a SET Class A design with three transformers corresponding to the three tubes. I fell in love again with tube sound. My tube experience goes all the way back to when I was a teenager with Dynaco 60 watt monoblocks on each channel and a Dynaco tube pre-amp. I grew up on tubes, audiologically speaking.

 The tubed MC66AE gave me the full-bodied tones, lush liquidity, sheen and shimmer of treble, glow of second violins, etc. However, the bass was of rich tone but not so tight as with solid state. Also, some detail was smoothed over at times, and the transient attacks were slightly less impactful than solid state amps. I missed the Lehmann’s strong points when listening to the MC66AE but missed the tubed MC66AE’s lush richness when listening to the Lehmann.

 I felt I could not bounce between them but did not know which one to sell. To tube or not to tube, that is the dilemma of many audiophiles. However, I also was thinking of getting another Lehmann with the UBS option. So I sold the Lehmann as it was the one that received the first buy offer.

 At the same time a Chinese audiophile friend advised me of the new Bada PH12 and recommended it, saying it was better than the well-regarded Opera Consonance Cyber 20 and even better than the Ming Da MC66AE. I ordered some of the Bada PH12 with another E5 CD player and sold the MC66AE before the Badas arrived. I gave my son a Bada PH12 headphone amp and an E5 CD player, and kept two for myself.

 I realized immediately that the Bada was something special – my Lehmann sound had returned but with something added - more body to tonal timbre – no more of the leanness typical of solid state.

 I believe the Bada PH12 offers the best of solid state sound with the best of tube sound. It is a Single Ended, Class A, no negative feedback, and OTL (no transformer in the output to color the sound) design.

 Now the OTL design offers the most natural sound but generally lacks the full dynamics of tube transformer-output and solid state amps. Some OTL headphone amps (Antique Sound Labs for example) come with a transformer output as well so you can restore dynamics by switching from OTL to OT output, then switch back for more natural sound. Yet the Bada has dynamics and transient impact, and deep well-defined bass, equal to the solid state amp. How can this OTL tube design do it?

 The Bada is a lion in sheep’s clothing. It has the highly regarded Toshiba J200/K1529 Mosfets in the output stage. That is how it can combine the best solid state characteristics with the best of tube sound. Bada has been building hybrid designs for years and they know their stuff. This hybrid does as intended – no identity confusion in the sound. But the PH12 is high end all the way and has no resemblance to its much cheaper (but well regarded) one-tube hybrid cousin.

 As configured with three Shugang 6N8P tubes, the Bada is closer to the neutral sound of the Lehmann than to the rich, lush liquidity of the MC66AE. It does have more timbral body than the Lehmann - a plus of its tubes. It has the best of both, though leaning more to the Lehmann sound with the tubes it comes with.

 I then used some old Namking 6H8C tubes on hand – the 6H8C is a Russian number designation for the excellent 6NS7 - in place of the 6N8P tubes. This shifted the sound more toward the MC66AE – added some more smoothness, richness, liquidity, etc. Then I tried some Russian 6H8C tubes to give even more liquidity and richness than the Namking 6H8C tubes – a very seductive and enjoyable tube sound.

 Which is best? The accurate and neutral reproduction of the signal afforded by the original 6N8P tubes supplied with the amp, or the enhancement of tone and seductive appeal of the 6NS7 (6H8C) tubes? I like both and much depends on the recording. The Sony SA5000 seemed better with the 6NS7 tubes while the Sennheiser HD650 may be better with the stock tubes.

 I then got the Electro Harmonix Gold EH 6NS7 (with gold pins only – be sure before ordering as some sellers label it Gold as their own grade from testing and not EH’s grade) and see how they are. They were liquid and rich, used all around in the three positions. However, with the Electro Harmonix Gold 6NS67 tubes used only as the two output or driver tubes (in the two rear positions), with one Shugang 6N8P (original) in the single front (input or power) position, this gave me the most natural and realistic sound I have ever heard with my Sony SA5000 headphones and Eastsound E5 CD player, taking into acount the soundstage limitations of sound with any headphone. Who says CDs sound bad? They are great with this setup. 

 This combination of my favorite Sony SA5000 headphones, using one 6N8P (that comes with the Bada) as the front tube, then two Electro Harmonix Gold 6NS7 tubes in the rear as output tubes, gives more of a rich and full-bodied tube sound than you get by using all three 6N8P but more of a solid state sound than you get by using all three 6SN7 tubes. Plus the most natural instrument timbre I have ever heard. With this tube set up I get all the definition, detail, neutrality, focused sound images, bass that is deep, tight, and well defined, and the dynamics with lightening fast transients and impactful crescendos of the best solid state amps - but not solid state leanness of tone. I also get full bodied and naturally rich timbre of the best tube amps. I get the best of both worlds.

 Variations of sound signatures are thus provided by using different brands of tubes, You can dial your own sound to match your other equipment. The Bada provides a platform that allows different tubes to voice their own thing in their own distinct manner, while enhancing and improving that voice by adding desirable solid state qualities. This is truly a remarkable achievement.

 The Bada is encased in a beautiful and thick aluminum housing. It has a huge power transformer that is about 3 inches tall and 5 inches in diameter, used in the amp power stage but not in the output stage (no transformers and no opamps are used in the output stage). Top quality parts such as from Solen, and an Alps volume control, are used. It is hefty and weighs about 16 pounds. Power is sufficient to drive any headphone. When you turn it on, it slowly powers the unit over about 24 seconds before full power is reached, then it is ready to play. This greatly prolongs tube life. It is a new model in China, and available at present only in the 220 volt mode. I bought a quality converter rated at 200 Watts (the Bada draws 50 Watts so an 100 Watt converter would be fine). This very nice noiseless converter connects to the 110 volt wall outlet, and then the Bada PH12 plugs into the converter. I use the converter switch to turn the converter and the Bada on simultaneously, for one-switch convenience. 

 The sound is fantastically real with two EH Gold 6NS7 tubes in back and one Shugang 6N8P tube in front. I wonder if gets any better for someone who wants the best of solid state with the tube timbral body. Right now it can be auditioned in Gainesville, Florida and in Apopka, Florida (contact drarthurwells@hotmail.com).

*Note - subsequent experience with tubes resulted in updated tube recommendations - see page 5.*


 High end equipment is labor-intensive and the Chinese have cheap and highly skilled labor. For years the Chinese made high end equipment for such producers as Mark Levinson. In the last 5 years, the Chinese have focused more on their own independent brands and are producing the highest quality products at low prices (as well as cheap products at extremely low prices). My experience with recent Chinese equipment has been extremely positive.

 Freq response is 10HZ to 50000 Hz plus or minus 1/2 db - very flat.

 Harmonic distortion is .6 % 

 Noise is - 95 db 

 Recommended headphone impedance: 30-600 Ohms


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## drarthurwells

Several PMs to me about the price.

 New item in China - I had to special order through orders@cattylink.com and since I got a total quote with the total order well over $2,000, and saved on combined shipping, I don't really know what I paid. My price (see my amps for sell ad) is what I think it would cost you to order one from China. My price includes a new-in-factory-sealed box 200 watt converter - a deluxe version that is noiseless. The Bada draws 50 watts so my coverter is much over-capacity. You have to buy this converter separately if you buy from cattylink, and I think my price meets or beats their price. I am not making any money on this amp - just trying to make some lucky person very happy.


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## drarthurwells

Several PMs about tube use with the Bada PH12.

 The unit is supplied either with the Shugang 6N8P tubes or with Russian 6H8C. Both are fine.

 I got mine with the Shugang 6N8P tubes. I had some old Namking 6H8C tubes also. 

*All of these tubes are the 6NS7 type*. I know the numbers are different but they are all 6NS7 tubes.

 When I use the Shugang 6N8P tubes it came with, I get great solid state like sound with some more tone body and timbral richness - just a tad more than you would get from the most expensive solid state amps.

 My Sony S5000 loved the use of two of my Namking 6H8C as output tubes in the rear while keeping one of the Shugang 6N8P tubes up front as an input tube. I get a sound that has the most natural timbre I have ever heard to that point, and still get the great solid state sound characteristics I love. If I use all three Namking 6H8C tubes in all three positions I get a richer sound with more liquidity, sweet and lush, but somewhat unnaturally so - a sound the true tube lover loves though.

 Now this assumes you use a well recorded CD with a quality high end CD player.

 I later used the Electro Harmonix Gold (with gold pins) 6NS7, balanced within each tube and matched between tubes. This gave me slightly more improvement over the Namking 6H8C (6NS7 types).


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## philodox

An actual price might be good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure that if you email Snowy he will give you one.


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## raisin

nevermind


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## Blorton

Sounds quite interesting, Doc. I'd like to put my RKV up against it, when I finish installing some upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gonna be awhile before I'm done - Katrina did a number on the family resources.

 I can drive down one weekend if/when we decide to do a comparison. 360 miles is no biggie for my hoo ride. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fwiw, I'd recommend a pot upgrade in that thing. The ALPS is decent, but easily improved upon. Even a cheapie prebuilt series Elma for $60 from eBay would be a nice upgrade. I'll be installing a primo ladder in the RKV, which will make a big difference over the somewhat worn ALPS blue it has now.

 If possible, would you mind posting pics of the inside of your BADA sometime? I'm sure a number of folks would like to see whats under the hood.

 Cheers!
 Dan


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Blorton* 
_Sounds quite interesting, Doc. I'd like to put my RKV up against it, when I finish installing some upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gonna be awhile before I'm done - Katrina did a number on the family resources.

 I can drive down one weekend if/when we decide to do a comparison. 360 miles is no biggie for my hoo ride. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fwiw, I'd recommend a pot upgrade in that thing. The ALPS is decent, but easily improved upon. Even a cheapie prebuilt series Elma for $60 from eBay would be a nice upgrade. I'll be installing a primo ladder in the RKV, which will make a big difference over the somewhat worn ALPS blue it has now.

 If possible, would you mind posting pics of the inside of your BADA sometime? I'm sure a number of folks would like to see whats under the hood.

 Cheers!
 Dan_

 

My son in Apopka, Fl. took the pics - I have no digital camera. I will see about a inside shot.

 Let me know when you can come - bring your amp and headphones and some CDs. Appreciate your input into upgrades.

 I was just in Atlanta recently. Won't go there for a long time, if ever.


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## Teerawit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_
 I was just in Atlanta recently. Won't go there for a long time, if ever.
 [/IMG]_

 

Even if we have another GA meet?


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## jjcha

I'm not a fan of the Cosmic, and unfortunately, I have not heard the other amps you reference in your review. Have you listened to other amps that would give us a frame of reference? I think Ray Samuels' entire line is a good reference, if only because so many of us are familar with them, as well as the Gilmore amps.

 Best regards,

 -Jason


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## Ferbose

I am not an expert on amp circuit design, but Chinese happens to be my native language. Here is a link to BADA PH-12: http://www.badahi-fi.com/detail.asp?...3&proid=100163

 From what I read, it is a typical hybrid amplifier (though it may sound atypical). The headphone is completly driven by some type of FET transistor. 

 Let me do a direct translation (in quotes, and hence improper grammar and phrases): 

 "tube input; tube amplify; tube driving; field effect transistor power amplification"

 "This machine from input to voltage amplification and current driving all uses electron tubes, power amplification uses voltage-controlled high-power field effect transistor."

 To me that reads like the output device is just FET. The headphone is directly and solely driven by the FET. I have never seen any amp driving headphones using current from both a tube and a transistor simultaneously. Power amplification in this Bada amp, as read from the BADA website, is solely performed by FET. But Drarthurwells seems to disagree? It has single-ended (hence naturally class A) transistor output, but not SET (single-ended triode) as Drarthurwells mentioned elsewhere. Triode, if I understand correctly, always refers to a vaccum tube (some tubes can be witred as pseudo-triodes as well). BADA website does not mention of tubes as power amplification devices in PH-12, the device that actually feeds headphones current. That's my understanding anyway, and I welcome any correction.


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferbose* 
_Let me do a direct translation (in quotes, and hence improper grammar and phrases): 

 "tube input; tube amplify; tube driving; field effect transistor power amplification"

 "This machine from input to voltage amplification and current driving all uses electron tubes, power amplification uses voltage-controlled high-power field effect transistor."

 To me that reads like the output device is just FET. The headphone is directly and solely driven by the FET._

 

These quotes of yours 'tube input; tube amplify; tube driving; field effect transistor power amplification' indicate to me that the three triod tubes of the Bada PH12 are very much involved in the sound output. This is confirmed by significant changes in sound quality that result from tube changes in the three tubes. You can effect more of a tube sound or more of a transistor sound by making such changes - dial your sound. How can this be if, as you say, "...the output device is just FET."? The three tubes are very much involved in sound quality, and thus in amplification, it would seem. The FETs are used in gain amplification.

 Comments?


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## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_These quotes of yours 'tube input; tube amplify; tube driving; field effect transistor power amplification' indicate to me that the three triod tubes of the Bada PH12 are very much involved in the sound output. This is confirmed by significant changes in sound quality that result from tube changes in the three tubes. You can effect more of a tube sound or more of a transistor sound by making such changes - dial your sound. How can this be if, as you say, "...the output device is just FET."? The three tubes are very much involved in sound quality, and thus in amplification, it would seem. The FETs are used in gain amplification.

 Comments?_

 

Art, the amp has an input stage =tube, a voltage gain stage r/l = tube and an output stage r/l= transistor. 

 Therefore the tubes handle input and voltage gain to drive the solid state output stage. ferbose is correct. 

 Tubes excell at voltage delivery while solid state excells at current delivery... which is the whole theory behind combining these two different amplification devices.

 The highest amplification factor usually occurs at the votage gain stage.... thats why the tubes can signifigantly impact the sound.


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* 
_Art, the amp has an input stage =tube, a voltage gain stage r/l = tube and an output stage r/l= transistor. 

 Therefore the tubes handle input and voltage gain to drive the solid state output stage. ferbose is correct. 

 Tubes excell at voltage delivery while solid state excells at current delivery... which is the whole theory behind combining these two different amplification devices.

 The highest amplification factor usually occurs at the votage gain stage.... thats why the tubes can signifigantly impact the sound._

 

Art: Thanks for the clarification.

 I use a tube preamp with a solid state amp in my speaker system and it works great. I get the detail, imaging, transients, and dynamics of solid state with the full but natural timbral body of tube sound - all in one.

 I get the same sound characteristics from the Bada with the tube complement recommended in my review, and love it also.

 Those who like solid state will prefer the Lehmann, which I love also, and those who like tube sound will like one among the many available tube amps(Ming Da MC66AE that I used and like for a low cost amp, or Cayin HA-1A that Ferbose reviewed that cost close to the Bada PH12 but still inexpensive for what you get).


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## Ferbose

Quoted from this htread: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...=138581&page=2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Not sure how you can say the Bada PH12 is not a SET.

 The Bada uses three triod tubes - one input and two output - like other SET amps.

 Not sure how you can say the Bada PH12 is not a SET.

 The Bada chief sound engineer, who I consulted through a Chinese friend says it is a SET amp with no global feedback in Class A and OTL design._

 

People who use dumbed-down translation programs be aware.
 In China, they call vaccum tubes: "bile tube."
 Vaccum tubes are often referred to as "bile."
 For transistors they call it tube as well, don't ask me why?
 In Taiwan, which uses the Mandarin language just like China, transistors are called "electronic crystal body." (translatin literally)
 If you plug the BADA webpage into a translator program you may think it uses "xxxx tube" for power amplification. Actually if you can read Chinese it is a field-effect transistor, which they call filed-effect tube in China. 
 Calling the BADA a SET amp would be a huge mistake. Only amps that use triodes in single-ended topology for POWER AMPLIFICATION can be called SET.
 The BADA is class A because transistors can run in class A. It is OTL because transistor amps don't need output transformers. It uses triodes for initial stages of amplfication, but not for the final stage of power amplification. Input tubes, driver tubes and voltage amplification tubes almost always operate in class A, and this has nothing to do with class A SET topology. The BADA PH12 is not an SET amp.


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferbose* 
_Quoted from this htread: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...=138581&page=2


 If you plug the BADA webpage into a translator program you may think it uses "xxxx tube" for power amplification. Actually if you can read Chinese it is a field-effect transistor, which they call filed-effect tube in China. 
 Calling the BADA a SET amp would be a huge mistake. Only amps that use triodes in single-ended topology for POWER AMPLIFICATION can be called SET.
 The BADA is class A because transistors can run in class A. It is OTL because transistor amps don't need output transformers. It uses triodes for initial stages of amplfication, but not for the final stage of power amplification. Input tubes, driver tubes and voltage amplification tubes almost always operate in class A, and this has nothing to do with class A SET topology. The BADA PH12 is not an SET amp._

 

Art: Thanks for your input.

 My Chinese audiophile friend, who recommended the Bad a PH12 to me over the Opera Consonance Cyber 20 which I had been considering, confirmed again what the Bada chief designer originally said about the Bada PH12:

 "PH-12 EMPLOYS NO GLOBAL NEGATIVE FEEDBACK AND IS IN SINGLE-ENDED CLASS A, HIGH POWER DESIGN, THE CAPACITY OF CAPS IS NEARLY EQUAL TO A MINI AMPLIFIER. THE MUSIC CHARACTERS OF PH-12 IS A GOOD MIDRANGE COUPLED WITH GOOD HIGH AND LOW EXTENSION - WITH WELL BALANCED FULL RANGE AND WIDE SOUNDSTAGE. IF COMPARED WITH THE FAMOUS OPERA CONSONANCE CYBER 20, PH-12 OFFERS BETTER EXTENSION AND SOUND STAGE, OVERALL FEELINGS OF BALANCE IS NOTED IN PH-12. SINCE CYBER 20 IS USING TRANSFORMER OUTPUT AND SO THE SOUND IS DEPENDED ON THE TRANSFORMER QUALITY - IT IS THUS NOTED THAT THE HIGH AND LOW EXTENSION IS A BIT RESTRICTED AS WELL AS THE SOUND STAGE IN THE 20."


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## philodox

FYI, the Opera Consonance Cyber 20 is one of the worst amps I have ever heard. It is no wonder that the Bada PH-12 beats it.


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## chillysalsa

I didn't like the Cyber 20 either, and yet this glowing review from Positive Feedback:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue11/cyber20.htm

 Anyway, I digress. I think the Bada would be interesting to hear and compare to the other hybrid designs like the Millet.


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## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Art: Thanks for your input.

 My Chinese audiophile friend, who recommended the Bad a PH12 to me over the Opera Consonance Cyber 20 which I had been considering, confirmed again what the Bada chief designer originally said about the Bada PH12:

 "PH-12 EMPLOYS NO GLOBAL NEGATIVE FEEDBACK AND IS IN SINGLE-ENDED CLASS A, HIGH POWER DESIGN, THE CAPACITY OF CAPS IS NEARLY EQUAL TO A MINI AMPLIFIER. THE MUSIC CHARACTERS OF PH-12 IS A GOOD MIDRANGE COUPLED WITH GOOD HIGH AND LOW EXTENSION - WITH WELL BALANCED FULL RANGE AND WIDE SOUNDSTAGE. IF COMPARED WITH THE FAMOUS OPERA CONSONANCE CYBER 20, PH-12 OFFERS BETTER EXTENSION AND SOUND STAGE, OVERALL FEELINGS OF BALANCE IS NOTED IN PH-12. SINCE CYBER 20 IS USING TRANSFORMER OUTPUT AND SO THE SOUND IS DEPENDED ON THE TRANSFORMER QUALITY - IT IS THUS NOTED THAT THE HIGH AND LOW EXTENSION IS A BIT RESTRICTED AS WELL AS THE SOUND STAGE IN THE 20."_

 


 What your friend confirmed does not make the Bada amp a SET. Transistors can run single ended in class A with no global feedback. I have such an amp... its called a Monarchy sm-70 pro. My amp is not a SET. If you look at the advertisements on the cattylink page you will see what ferbose is talking about. In one amp profile for example.... the Korsun v8i, I saw them state the amp had 24 sanken tubes for the outputs. Sankens are well known high quality transisitors.... not tubes. I am sure there is no intent to deceive anyone. This is nothing more than translation difficulty.


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## drarthurwells

Thanks again for the info.

 The Bada chief engineer said to my Chinese audiophile friend that the PH12 was a single ended class A amp using no global negative feedback.

 It uses three 6NS7 triod type tubes.

 I put these two things together and mistakenly called it a single ended triod (SET) amp.


 BTW

 Those are interesting comments above about the Cyber 20. Shows you can't always trust glowing magazine or site reviews.

 The Bada Chief engineer/designer was somewhat diplomatic about the Cyber 20, while my Chinese audiophile friend was much less diplomatic and steered me away from it quickly, while fulfilling my request to contact Bada about comparing the PH12 to the Cyber 20.

 The Bada has been just what I have been looking for. Anyone in the Gainesvile or Apopka Florida area is welcome to audition it.


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## Solude

Don't think I saw it anywhere but Rudistor tube amps are also tube/ss hybrids and quite a bit less than $2000 I might add


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## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solude* 
_Don't think I saw it anywhere but Rudistor tube amps are also tube/ss hybrids and quite a bit less than $2000 I might add._

 

What costs $2000? You can get the Bada PH-12 Export Edition with Russian tubes for $298 shipped.


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## Ferbose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Thanks again for the info.

 The Bada chief engineer said to my Chinese audiophile friend that the PH12 was a single ended class A amp using no global negative feedback.

 It uses three 6NS7 triod type tubes.

 I put these two things together and mistakenly called it a single ended triod (SET) amp._

 

Glad to see things sorted out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Again, I must say I have nothing against Chinese hybrid amps and I do not claim the superiority of all-tube or even SET over hybrid design. Aren't some folks adding OP-amps to the famous RKV nowadays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ? in fact I prefer a Chinese manufactured hybrid amp to drive my K1000 on some occasions. 

 I have never heard the BADA amp but was just trying to provide some information for those who can't read Chinese on BADA website.


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## Solude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_I got a total quote with the total order well over $2,000_

 

Sorry saw that and thought it was the amp price.


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_I'm not a fan of the Cosmic, and unfortunately, I have not heard the other amps you reference in your review. Have you listened to other amps that would give us a frame of reference? I think Ray Samuels' entire line is a good reference, if only because so many of us are familar with them, as well as the Gilmore amps.

 Best regards,

 -Jason_

 

Art: The amps for phones I have owned (and not just heard on a temporary basis), and which I well know their sound, are the David Hafler 110 pre-amp and headphone amp combo, the Headroom Micro with desktop module, the Headroom Cosmic, the Stax (cost thousands but can't remember the model) with its own dedicated amp, the Lehmann Black Cube linear) the Ming Da (Meixing) MC66AE, and now the Bada PH12.

 The only amp I would ever consider now are hybrids that give me the best of solid state and the best of tubes, particulary Class A output with the OTL design to give more natural timbre.


 Solude: Don't think I saw it anywhere but Rudistor tube amps are also tube/ss hybrids and quite a bit less than $2000 I might add. 

 Art: Now that sounds interesting - I assume, though, that it is not an OTL design but uses a transformer in the output. Any owners care to post about it? Any owners in Florida (North or Central) that would want to compare with the Bada PH12?

 What about other hybrids available beside the Bada PH12 that are also an OTL design?


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferbose* 
_ Aren't some folks adding OP-amps to the famous RKV nowadays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ? in fact I prefer a Chinese manufactured hybrid amp to drive my K1000 on some occasions._

 

Art: I have an aversion to opamps in the amplification output, even in Class A. Comments anyone?


 I assume You refer to your Jolida integrated hybrid speaker amp that you use with headphones. Does it have a headphone out? Is it Class AB instead of Class A?


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## Ferbose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solude* 
 Don't think I saw it anywhere but Rudistor tube amps are also tube/ss hybrids and quite a bit less than $2000 I might add.

 

Art: Now that sounds interesting - I assume, though, that it is not an OTL design but uses a transformer in the output. Any owners care to post about it? Any owners in Florida (North or Central) that would want to compare with the Bada PH12?

 What about other hybrids available beside the Bada PH12 that are also an OTL design?_

 

Every hybrid amp is an OTL design, basically. Hybrid amps use transistors for power amplification, which don't need output transformers to begin with. When people say OTL, they are always talking about amps with tubes for the final output stage (power amplification). Amps with transistors for power amplfication naturally don't have output transformers, at least I have never seen one. Saying a hybrid amp is OTL is almost like saying a CD player does not incorporate a tonearm. And OTL is not such a big deal anyway. Many tube amps with transformers sound great as well. There is really nothing special about BADA's circuit topology that guarantees good sound. An amp does not need any exotic circuit topology to sound good. In fact, Ray Samuels once said, every audio circuit has been reused a million times.


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## Ferbose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_I assume You refer to your Jolida integrated hybrid speaker amp that you use with headphones. Does it have a headphone out? Is it Class AB instead of Class A?_

 

K1000 is designed to be driven by speaker outputs of speaker amps, because it requires so much voltage swing to drive. Few headphone amplifiers can drive K1000 adequately, and a special adapter cable is needed to use K1000 with TRS jacks. If a headphone amplifier can output 0.5-1W into a 120 ohm load, than it probably can drive K1000.


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferbose* 
_Every hybrid amp is an OTL design, basically. Hybrid amps use transistors for power amplification, which don't need output transformers to begin with. When people say OTL, they are always talking about amps with tubes for the final output stage (power amplification). Amps with transistors for power amplfication naturally don't have output transformers, at least I have never seen one. Saying a hybrid amp is OTL is almost like saying a CD player does not incorporate a tonearm. And OTL is not such a big deal anyway. Many tube amps with transformers sound great as well. There is really nothing special about BADA's circuit topology that guarantees good sound. An amp does not need any exotic circuit topology to sound good. In fact, Ray Samuels once said, every audio circuit has been reused a million times._

 

Confusing to me. Please clarify:

 The BADA has a huge capacitor (3 inch high and 5 inch diameter), given it does not use an output transformer, like the Single power Supra OTL does, and other tube OTL designs have. The huge capacitor is in lieu of a transformer of some sort, I assume, making it an OTL design in addition to the OTL of its MosFet output.

 Do all hybrid headphone amps feature this big a capacitor, given, as you say that they don't use any transformer in the output? The Bada is the only one I know of tha tuses this huge capcator. Why then does it need such a huge capacitor? If Bada did not use this big capacitor then they would have to use a transformer instead, right?

 Going back to SACD lover's comments below:

*Tubes excell at voltage delivery while solid state excells at current delivery... which is the whole theory behind combining these two different amplification devices.

 The highest amplification factor usually occurs at the votage gain stage.... thats why the tubes can signifigantly impact the sound. * 

 From this can we say the Bada is a tube transformerless design, in the voltage gain stage of amplification, and this is unlike other hybrids that use a large transformer instead of the Bada's huge capacitor? Again, I know of no other hybrid that uses a huge capacitor like the Bada does.

 Finally, you seem to say that circuitry can be disregarded, it is how a design is implemented and not what the design is.

 Class A is as natural in timbre as AB? And what about the irritating switching distortion of Class AB that results in listener fatigue?

 OTL is not more natural a sound in tubes than is transformer output sound?
 I have seen where experts say the opposite, though dynamics are lacking in tube OTL amps.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Confusing to me. Please clarify:

 The BADA has a huge capacitor (3 inch high and 5 inch diameter), given it does not use an output transformer, like the Single power Supra OTL does, and other tube OTL designs have. The huge capacitor is in lieu of a transformer of some sort, I assume, making it an OTL design in addition to the OTL of its MosFet output.

 Do all hybrid headphone amps feature this big a capacitor, given, as you say that they don't use any transformer in the output? The Bada is the only one I know of tha tuses this huge capcator. Why then does it need such a huge capacitor? If Bada did not use this big capacitor then they would have to use a transformer instead, right?

 Going back to SACD lover's comments below:

*Tubes excell at voltage delivery while solid state excells at current delivery... which is the whole theory behind combining these two different amplification devices.

 The highest amplification factor usually occurs at the votage gain stage.... thats why the tubes can signifigantly impact the sound. * 

 From this can we say the Bada is a tube transformerless design, in the voltage gain stage of amplification, and this is unlike other hybrids that use a large transformer instead of the Bada's huge capacitor? Again, I know of no other hybrid that uses a huge capacitor like the Bada does.

 Finally, you seem to say that circuitry can be disregarded, it is how a design is implemented and not what the design is.

 Class A is as natural in timbre as AB? And what about the irritating switching distortion of Class AB that results in listener fatigue?

 OTL is not more natural a sound in tubes than is transformer output sound?
 I have seen where experts say the opposite, though dynamics are lacking in tube OTL amps._

 


 Art... your confusing yourself trying to insist and argue that the amp is OTL. The Bada is not OTL. 

 The huge caps in the singlepower are resevoir caps for the power supply and have nothing to do with the input stage, voltage gain stage or output stage. If the huge cap was not present you would not use a transformer... you would use some other type of cap. OTL refers ONLY to the output stage of a tube amp... not a solid state amp that inherently forgoes a transformer. Tube amps that use transformer coupling at the output are obviously transformer designs. Tube amps that have no output transformer AT THE OUTPUT STAGE are OTL. The input and voltage gain stages are not output stages.

 The huge cap in the Bada probably serves the same purpose of energy storage.... as in the singlepowers.... to prevent power supply sag from occuring during demanding musical passages. Also, experts say OTL lacks dynamics?? Thats just one more stereotype that is not true.... its all in the implementation. My singlepower tube amps have more dynamic punch acroos the entire frequency spectrum than any of my previous solid state headphone amps.


----------



## drarthurwells

Thanks again for your clarification.

 It would seem that all amps would benefit from a huge capacitor, like the Bada Ph12 and Singlepower Supra.

 Yes?

 Yet this is very rare.

 Comments?


----------



## drarthurwells

The Bada PH2 has a sound with detail, dynamics, fast transients, and tremendous dynamics - like a good solid state amp. However the sound is greatly altered with tubes selected. 


 [size=x-small][See page 5 for tube use update][/size]


----------



## Blorton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferbose* 
_ Aren't some folks adding OP-amps to the famous RKV nowadays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ?_

 

Errr, not quite. The RKV comes with old and slow opamps. What people have been doing is doing a drop-in upgrade to the 637. The stock part is even socketed, so it's an easy task. (Minus the need to solder a stabilizing cap onto the chip, but that's no biggie either.)

 Cheers!
 Dan


----------



## Ferbose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Blorton* 
_Errr, not quite. The RKV comes with old and slow opamps. What people have been doing is doing a drop-in upgrade to the 637. The stock part is even socketed, so it's an easy task. (Minus the need to solder a stabilizing cap onto the chip, but that's no biggie either.)

 Cheers!
 Dan_

 

My bad. Did not realize RKV had OP-amps, knowing it is a push-pull tube design. Its circuit is clearly more complicated than what I could understand. Wish to hear it woth K1000 someday.


----------



## drarthurwells

sacd lover: Art... your confusing yourself trying to insist and argue that the amp is OTL. The Bada is not OTL.

 Art: The Bada is an OTL design, as the Bada Chief engineer stated in the quote I posted previously, since it does not use a transformer in the output.
 Such transformers cause some degradation in sound quality, where the extent of this degradation depends on the quality of the transformer. It is true that the Bada does not use a tubed current output, as you pointed out earlier, and thus it is true that the Bada is not a tubed OTL in regard to the current amplification, but it is an OTL design, both in its voltage amplification and in its current amplification, and thus avoids any degradation in sound quality caused by a transformer in its output. 

 sacd lover: The huge cap in the Bada probably serves the same purpose of energy storage.... as in the singlepowers.... to prevent power supply sag from occuring during demanding musical passages. Also, experts say OTL lacks dynamics?? Thats just one more stereotype that is not true.... its all in the implementation. My singlepower tube amps have more dynamic punch acroos the entire frequency spectrum than any of my previous solid state headphone amps.

 Art: Antique Sound Labs produces a tubed OTL with a switch to select either OTL, for the most natural timbre at the expense of dynamics, or transformer output for better dynamics at the expense to natural timbre because the transformer is in the output. Why then do you say that the OTL design does not have some inherent problem in reproducing dynamics? Perhaps the use of a huge capacitor helps mitigate this deficit in the OTL design, at least to some extent.

 The Bada features natural timbre as well as tremendous dynamics, with deep and powerful well-defined bass, and a clean handling of the most loud and complex orchestral crescendos. The huge capacitor it uses greatly contributes to this. I am sure the huge capacitor in the Singlepower Supra likewise makes sonic contributions.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_sacd lover: Art... your confusing yourself trying to insist and argue that the amp is OTL. The Bada is not OTL.

 Art: The Bada is an OTL design, as the Bada Chief engineer stated in the quote I posted previously, since it does not use a transformer in the output.
 Such transformers cause some degradation in sound quality, where the extent of this degradation depends on the quality of the transformer. It is true that the Bada does not use a tubed current output, as you pointed out earlier, and thus it is true that the Bada is not a tubed OTL in regard to the current amplification, but it is an OTL design, both in its voltage amplification and in its current amplification, and thus avoids any degradation in sound quality caused by a transformer in its output. 

 sacd lover: The huge cap in the Bada probably serves the same purpose of energy storage.... as in the singlepowers.... to prevent power supply sag from occuring during demanding musical passages. Also, experts say OTL lacks dynamics?? Thats just one more stereotype that is not true.... its all in the implementation. My singlepower tube amps have more dynamic punch acroos the entire frequency spectrum than any of my previous solid state headphone amps.

 Art: Antique Sound Labs produces a tubed OTL with a switch to select either OTL, for the most natural timbre at the expense of dynamics, or transformer output for better dynamics at the expense to natural timbre because the transformer is in the output. Why then do you say that the OTL design does not have some inherent problem in reproducing dynamics? Perhaps the use of a huge capacitor helps mitigate this deficit in the OTL design, at least to some extent.

 The Bada features natural timbre as well as tremendous dynamics, with deep and powerful well-defined bass, and a clean handling of the most loud and complex orchestral crescendos. The huge capacitor it uses greatly contributes to this. I am sure the huge capacitor in the Singlepower Supra likewise makes sonic contributions._

 





 Are you really that dense Art? Can you name a headphone amp that uses solid state output devices and has an output transformer. Of course not... they dont need an output transformer. But tubes amps can be either OTL or transformer coupled depending on the application. So OTL refers to a tube amp thats.... output transformerless. Your just playing semantics.

 ASL believes their transformer design has more dynamics than their OTL design.... so all OTL amps have trouble with dynamics? Thats quite a reach dont you think? As I already told you, my Singlepower amps have better dynamics than any of my previous solid state amps... and I have owned several. Go listen to a Singlepower SLAM ppx3 or mpx3 and then tell me an OTL amp has inherent dynamic limitations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lastly, I dont think you have a clue what the huge cap in the Bada does. So I dont know how you can comment as to its effect. I am not sure you even know what a cap is. Are you calling the transformer on the Bada amp a cap? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that I looked at the Bada pic I dont see any resevoir caps resembling those on the Singlepower amps. I see a power transformer encased in a round metal cover.


----------



## drarthurwells

sacd lover: Are you really that dense Art? Can you name a headphone amp that uses solid state output devices and has an output transformer. Of course not... they dont need an output transformer. But tubes amps can be either OTL or transformer coupled depending on the application. So OTL refers to a tube amp thats.... output transformerless. Your just playing semantics.


 Art: Now you are being dense, not me. You said the Bada was not a OTL design. An OTL design is one that does not use transformers in the amplification signal path in order to eliminate the sound degration, however slight, that such a transformer adds. Your saying the Bada is not an OTL amp implies that the Bada is an transformer-coupled-output amp, and this is not true. Why would you want to imply a falsehood and then call me dense for not accepting this falsehood?


 sacd lover: ASL believes their transformer design has more dynamics than their OTL design.... so all OTL amps have trouble with dynamics? Thats quite a reach dont you think?


 Art: Not a reach at all. Why does ASL need to use a transformer to provide dynamic? Because OTL amps have to take special circuit efforts to compensate for the lack of dynamics involved in not using a transformer. OTL does this by allowing a switch for the listener to make the choice between more natural timbre with less dynamics and power slam, or more dynamics and power slam with less natural timbre. ASL tells you this.

 sacd lover: As I already told you, my Singlepower amps have better dynamics than any of my previous solid state amps... and I have owned several. Go listen to a Singlepower SLAM ppx3 or mpx3 and then tell me an OTL amp has inherent dynamic limitations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lastly, I dont think you have a clue what the huge cap in the Bada does. So I dont know how you can comment as to its effect. I am not sure you even know what a cap is. Are you calling the transformer on the Bada amp a cap? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that I looked at the Bada pic I dont see any resevoir caps resembling those on the Singlepower amps. I see a power transformer encased in a round metal cover.


 Art: If you think the huge three inch high and five inch diameter capacitor is not a power cap but is instead a transformer, then you lose your credibilty with me entirely. This is disappointing to me after you earlier gave us such a succint description of hybrid amplification.

 As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Bada Chief engineer describes the PH12 has an OTL design that uses a huge capacitor that is worthy of a speaker amp (and the Bada PH32 is the PH12 modified as a speaker amp that puts out 100 watts of power - 50 watts at each channel, at 8 ohms - not just at 4 ohms, mind you). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as the purpose of this capacitor - you well know it stores power on a temporary basis to draw on in amplification.

 The OTL Supra design uses such a huge capacitor to provide needed bass and dynamic slam in compensation for inherent deficits in this regard of the tube OTL design. The Bada as a tube-MosFet hybrid OTL design also uses a huge capacitor even though all other hybrid headphone amps do not. The result is tremendous dynamics and bass, with extremely clean reproduction of the most complex musical passages at the highest recorded sound levels, in the Bada PH12.


----------



## sacd lover

Art: Now you are being dense, not me. You said the Bada was not a OTL design. An OTL design is one that does not use transformers in the amplification signal path in order to eliminate the sound degration, however slight, that such a transformer adds. Your saying the Bada is not an OTL amp implies that the Bada is an transformer-coupled-output amp, and this is not true. Why would you want to imply a falsehood and then call me dense for not accepting this falsehood?

 The only falsehood is you continuing to insist the Bada is an OTL when the OTL desigantion has never been applied... or intended to be applied.... to solid state output devices. Thats the point... solid state outputs inherently DO NOT use transformers. Furthermore, I have never implied the BADA has a transformer output and you are well aware of that. I have stated the OTL designation has always been applied to TUBE AMPS. You are the one insisting on applying the OTL designation to solid state designs.... which is irrelevant. 



 Art: Not a reach at all. Why does ASL need to use a transformer to provide dynamic? Because OTL amps have to take special circuit efforts to compensate for the lack of dynamics involved in not using a transformer. OTL does this by allowing a switch for the listener to make the choice between more natural timbre with less dynamics and power slam, or more dynamics and power slam with less natural timbre. ASL tells you this.

 Your statement was that you have seen experts state that OTL amps lack dynamics. My response was to the statement OTL's lack dynamics. The statements real implication is that TUBE OTL's lack dynamics and thats not true. Taking extra care to get the best dynamics out of a TUBE OTL design has nothing in common with a statement that all such designs are inherently lacking dynamics. You like to play both sides and ignore the inconsistencies in your arguments and here again you have the muddled the distinction between the solid state and tube amps. Again, if all solid state designs are OTL's how do you reconcile the experts statement about OTL's inherently lacking dynamics for those amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Art: If you think the huge three inch high and five inch diameter capacitor is not a power cap but is instead a transformer, then you lose your credibilty with me entirely. This is disappointing to me after you earlier gave us such a succint description of hybrid amplification.

 As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Bada Chief engineer describes the PH12 has an OTL design that uses a huge capacitor that is worthy of a speaker amp (and the Bada PH32 is the PH12 modified as a speaker amp that puts out 100 watts of power - 50 watts at each channel, at 8 ohms - not just at 4 ohms, mind you). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 You again avoid answering my question. We know there are power supply caps in the amp for it to work. He describes the cap as huge but where is it and did he say it was in the metal can... or thats your assumption. With the confusion in translations are you sure he even meant a power supply cap or was he talking about the POWER transformer? Furthermore, did he state the 3x5 " size or is that again your assumption? So again, are you saying the huge power supply cap is in the metal can? If so, then where is the POWER transformer? Caps need to be supplied with the energy to store... correct... so where is that energy coming from? I am asking if you really know what is in the metal can on the back of the amp. That looks like a power transformer to me.


----------



## kevin gilmore

OTL stands for Output Transformerless. This amp is definitely OTL.
 This amplifier has 3 6sn7's each of which is a dual triode. The first
 tube is the preamplifier stage for both channels. Each of the other
 tubes is the output tube for a single channel. Without better pictures
 of the inside of the amplifier, i cannot determine which of the two
 types it is, but there are only two types.

 Type 1) Similar to the Singlepower amps. That is to say White Cathode
 Follower.

 Type 2 ) Similar to the ray samuels stealth or raptor. That is to say
 SRPP. Which many people believe to be Series Regulated Push Pull.

 From the .6% distortion figure i believe it is probably Type 2.

 The Big black round thing is in fact a transformer cover. Whats under
 the cover is likely to be a torroid power transformer. If it was a
 standard E/I transformer, the cover would be much taller. Likely
 what is inside is actually a 3 inch high, 5 inch in diameter torroid.

 Given the tube complement the chances of the amplifier actually being
 SET OTL is highly unlikely. 6sn7's don't share current well in parallel
 mode.

 The power supply capacitor or capacitors are inside the bottom
 part of the chassis. So are the output capacitors.


----------



## Ferbose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* 
_OTL stands for Output Transformerless. This amp is definitely OTL.
 This amplifier has 3 6sn7's each of which is a dual triode. The first
 tube is the preamplifier stage for both channels. Each of the other
 tubes is the output tube for a single channel. Without better pictures
 of the inside of the amplifier, i cannot determine which of the two
 types it is, but there are only two types.

 Type 1) Similar to the Singlepower amps. That is to say White Cathode
 Follower.

 Type 2 ) Similar to the ray samuels stealth or raptor. That is to say
 SRPP. Which many people believe to be Series Regulated Push Pull.

 From the .6% distortion figure i believe it is probably Type 2.

 The Big black round thing is in fact a transformer cover. Whats under
 the cover is likely to be a torroid power transformer. If it was a
 standard E/I transformer, the cover would be much taller. Likely
 what is inside is actually a 3 inch high, 5 inch in diameter torroid.

 Given the tube complement the chances of the amplifier actually being
 SET OTL is highly unlikely. 6sn7's don't share current well in parallel
 mode.

 The power supply capacitor or capacitors are inside the bottom
 part of the chassis. So are the output capacitors._

 


 Kevin no doubt has a 100 times more knowledge than me in amp circuitry. 

 But I just want to point out something he might have missed--the manufacturer clearly states that it uses FETs for power amplification, and therefore it is a hybrid design, not tube OTL. 

 Art, you should open your amp and take a hi-res picture of the components near the headphone output jack. Then we can easily see what is being used for power amplification.


----------



## kevin gilmore

quote
 But I just want to point out something he might have missed--the manufacturer clearly states that it uses FETs for power amplification, and therefore it is a hybrid design, not tube OTL.

 My ability to read chinese is about as close to zero as can be, so for me
 it is not necessarily clear that the fets are used for the output stage even
 though some of the language converters may indicate otherwise. In fact
 the FETS may in fact be used for the regulated power supply just like
 the fets in my BH and KGSS, and in fact identical to the regulated power
 supply in most of the singlepower amplifiers.

 On monday i will give the manufacturer ad page to someone who is
 native chinese and also knows electronics and see what he says.

 But a high resolution picture of the inside bottom of the unit will absolutely
 answer all questions.


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* 
_quote
 But I just want to point out something he might have missed--the manufacturer clearly states that it uses FETs for power amplification, and therefore it is a hybrid design, not tube OTL.

 My ability to read chinese is about as close to zero as can be, so for me
 it is not necessarily clear that the fets are used for the output stage even
 though some of the language converters may indicate otherwise. In fact
 the FETS may in fact be used for the regulated power supply just like
 the fets in my BH and KGSS, and in fact identical to the regulated power
 supply in most of the singlepower amplifiers.

 On monday i will give the manufacturer ad page to someone who is
 native chinese and also knows electronics and see what he says.

 But a high resolution picture of the inside bottom of the unit will absolutely
 answer all questions._

 

Thanks for the input all. I don't have a digital camera to take pics of the inside. It took me 2 weeks to get my son in Apopka, Florida to take pics shown on this thread - he is very busy at this time.

 So the big round 3 inch high and 5 inch diameter dome on the top of the amp is a transformer?

 Is the same dome on the Singlepower Supra also a transformer?


----------



## kevin gilmore

On the singlepower the square thing is the power transformer and
 the two round things are the massive power supply caps. The caps
 are about 3.5 inches in diameter, and are the largest capacitor container
 ever made. Those actually are the caps, not capacitor covers. On
 very large electrolytics the length to diameter ratio is always in the
 range of 2:1 to 3:1.


----------



## zoinks

i've owned the Meixing (Ming Da) MC66AE the op discussed for about 4 weeks and i am very impressed. outstanding for the money. makes me want to hear that bada.


----------



## pjr300

I have a Bada PH-12 on the way.... looking forward to using it!!!


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pjr300* 
_I have a Bada PH-12 on the way.... looking forward to using it!!!_

 

See page 5 for tube use update.


----------



## pjr300

For those who wanted to see the bottom of a bada, here's a pic. We can settle the curcuit discussion once and for all, LOL!


----------



## drarthurwells

[size=x-small]Tubes for the Bada PH12:[/size]

 Someone emailed me and asked me about the tube configuration with the Bada PH12, specifically the use of one Electro Harmonix Gold 6NS7 up front (input) and two Russian 6H8C tubes in back (output), as currently supplied with the Bada PH12.

 [size=x-small]See page 5 for tube use update[/size]


----------



## EdipisReks

was there any new consensus based on that pic?


----------



## Svperstar

So where would I go to buy one of these? Googling the name came up with nothing


----------



## Teerawit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Svperstar* 
_So where would I go to buy one of these? Googling the name came up with nothing_

 

Try:

www.cattylink.com


----------



## noypi

where can i buy a bada ph12?? i cant find anything on google nor the site above.


----------



## PsychoZX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *noypi* 
_where can i buy a bada ph12?? i cant find anything on google nor the site above._

 

Send an email to cattylink. It is not listed on their site but they do sell em.


----------



## drarthurwells

See this for more comments on the Bada PH12.

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=180534

 The Bada PH12 is not recommended for headphones of low impedance like the Grados.

 The tubes supplied are not as good as the old tubes of the 40s and 50s.

 Great 6SN7 tubes with the PH12 are:

 Sylvania GT VT-231 (GT or GTA also), or CBS GT, or GE GT as the single input tube

 and 2 RCA GT VT-231 (or plain GT) as the output tubes.

 RCA VT-231 (or GT), CBS GT, or GE GT as the input tube

 and 2 Raytheon VT-231 (or GT) as the output tubes.

 Raytheon GT VT-231 (or plain GT) as the input tube and 2 Sylvania or RCA VT-231 (or GT) as the output tubes.

 Ken Rad VT 231 as a single input with 2 General Electric GTA tubes as output tubes.

 Other good input tubes are the Electro Harmonix Gold (particularly with the Raytheon VT -231 or GT as output tubes), the RTT (German) GT or the Zalytron (Holland) GT.

 Avoid using GTB - some are bad. GT, or even some GTA, are usually better.

 [size=x-small]See page 5 for tube use update.
 Cautions with using the Bada PH12:[/size]

 Bada owners have sometimes experienced mosfet failure when they change tubes without letting the unit be powered off for at least 10 minutes before removing a tube. After turning the amp off, residual power in the circuitry can short out a mosfet when a tube is removed. Wait at least 10 minutes (30 is best) before removing any tube after turning the Bada off.

 Also never turn the Bada on until it has been off for at least 10 minutes.

 And always be sure the headphone is fully seated in the Bada before turning it on. Mosfets are sensitive and easily blown from an internal short situation.

 Bada now uses two 15V diodes, joined together with their negative leads where the two positive leads each connect to the outer pins of each mosfet, to help provide mosfet protection, but care in use is still advised.

 A good interconnect, like the Acoustic zen silver Reference II, is essential for best performance, as is a good source and headphones. 

 The Bada PH12 can be ordered from www.cattylink.com.

 Contact me if you have any problems with the PH12. I still very highly recommend the Bada PH12 for any high end system.


----------



## tourmaline

Is the BADA PH-12 AUTOBIAS? Since you use different tubes in the amp, you normally would have to bias the tubes to the optimum voltage?!

 Also, do you mean these tubes?
http://www.thetubestore.com/shuguang6sn7.html
 and the electro harmonics:
http://www.thetubestore.com/eh-6sn7g.html

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Be sure to try two Electro Hamonix Gold EH 6NS7 tubes in the two rear positions with one Shugang 6N8C in the front position.

 This set up gives an extremely natural instrumental/voice timbre.

 I got my Electro Harmonix from

http://www.thetubestore.com/ehx.html

 One other place sells a "Gold" grade, but this is not the true Gold model with gold pins, and has some internal design differences other than just gold pins._


----------



## tourmaline

Is the BADA PH-12 AUTOBIAS? Since you use different tubes in the amp, you normally would have to bias the tubes to the optimum voltage?!

 Also, do you mean these tubes?
http://www.thetubestore.com/shuguang6sn7.html
 and the electro harmonics:
Be]http://www.thetubestore.com/eh-6sn7g...arthurwells]Be sure to try two Electro Hamonix Gold EH 6NS7 tubes in the two rear positions with one Shugang 6N8C in the front position.

 This set up gives an extremely natural instrumental/voice timbre.

 I got my Electro Harmonix from

http://www.thetubestore.com/ehx.html

 One other place sells a "Gold" grade, but this is not the true Gold model with gold pins, and has some internal design differences other than just gold pins.[/QUOTE]


----------



## aerius

The PH-12 is not a top-tier amp, not even close. Since that review was written my amp has gotten nice toroidal output transformers and a tube rectified power supply. It is I think close to extracting the full potential of 6SN7 tubes, on a scale of 1-10 it's a bit under 9. The Bada would be about 5.5 or so, nice for the price, but not anywhere near state of the art.


----------



## tourmaline

it certainly would be much better then a xcan v3 or cec headphone amp!
 I never expect an amp to be perfect! always in need of modding.

 I also owned a maxed out very expensive stax system, so i can compare if it is any good. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aerius* 
_The PH-12 is not a top-tier amp, not even close. Since that review was written my amp has gotten nice toroidal output transformers and a tube rectified power supply. It is I think close to extracting the full potential of 6SN7 tubes, on a scale of 1-10 it's a bit under 9. The Bada would be about 5.5 or so, nice for the price, but not anywhere near state of the art._


----------



## Jahn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pjr300* 
_For those who wanted to see the bottom of a bada, here's a pic. We can settle the curcuit discussion once and for all, LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [/IMG]_

 

Just a side note -that's a laptop fan, right? Interesting idea to treat a headphone amp like a cpu and have a blower built in. How's the external sound with that fan going?


----------



## Jahn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pjr300* 
_For those who wanted to see the bottom of a bada, here's a pic. We can settle the curcuit discussion once and for all, LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [/IMG]_

 

Just a side note -that's a laptop fan, right? Interesting idea to treat a headphone amp like a cpu and have a blower built in. How's the external sound with that fan going?


----------



## tourmaline

Will let you know when i get the Bada.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jahn* 
_Just a side note -that's a laptop fan, right? Interesting idea to treat a headphone amp like a cpu and have a blower built in. How's the external sound with that fan going?_


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aerius* 
_The PH-12 is not a top-tier amp, not even close. Since that review was written my amp has gotten nice toroidal output transformers and a tube rectified power supply. It is I think close to extracting the full potential of 6SN7 tubes, on a scale of 1-10 it's a bit under 9. The Bada would be about 5.5 or so, nice for the price, but not anywhere near state of the art._

 


 I've owned some real good amps - home as well as headphone - including Stax amps with none of them give me the sound of the Bada PH12 - particularly in regard to forming a 3-D palable tones in empty space that are properly paced on a large soundstage.

 I am talking about amps I have owned and listened to for long periods - most of which are not in my signature - not amps of others that I have just auditioned.

 I am ready to get another amp in a heartbeat if it beats the Bada. I look forward to the new Eddie Current hybrid as a potential succesor the the Bada.

 Those listening to aerius, who has said the Sony SA 5000 lacks detail, about the Bada PH12, may be not getting the best opinion.

 The only complaints about the Bada I have ever heard is from those who used it with Grados (with their low impedance) but many other amps yield less than ideal results with Grados.


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## PFKMan23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_I am talking about amps I have owned and listened to for long periods - most of which are not in my signature - not amps of others that I have just auditioned._

 

Care to list examples?


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## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Those listening to aerius, who has said the Sony SA 5000 lacks detail, about the Bada PH12, may be not getting the best opinion._

 

He's not the only one who thinks that Art...

*sibilant overemphasized treble != detail*

 ...please, deal with the fact that we have a different opinion on the sound of the SA5000 and stop invalidating our opinions because of it.

 Frankly, I have not heard the Bada, but have heard aerius' amp... I also trust his ear and opinion as we know eachother personally and have listened to a lot of gear together. Based on that I can hazard a guess that the Bada is not a 'top tier' headphone amp.

 Just curious, have you heard any of Mikhail's amps? If so, what did you think of them? What about Ray's stuff? You mentioned Craig's amps [Eddie Current], have you heard them?


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## tourmaline

I will get one in a few weeks. Mine is on it's way and i will tell ya what i think of it. I also owned maxed out stax amps etc. Also heard alot of other commercial amps. It could be that the Ph-12 has good synergy with the Esound E5 and less with other cdplayers. I just know from experience that certain equipment sound better in combination with other equipment then others. But to be honest, i doubt that this amp is a high end killer. It could well be that it is a very good amp for the price indeed, but as i said, i'll let you know.


 Overemphasized trebble is mistakenly interpreted as extra detail/more detailed! It isn't any more detailed as other trebble but is just louder and hence easier recognized.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* 
_He's not the only one who thinks that Art...

*sibilant overemphasized treble != detail*

 ...please, deal with the fact that we have a different opinion on the sound of the SA5000 and stop invalidating our opinions because of it.

 Frankly, I have not heard the Bada, but have heard aerius' amp... I also trust his ear and opinion as we know eachother personally and have listened to a lot of gear together. Based on that I can hazard a guess that the Bada is not a 'top tier' headphone amp.

 Just curious, have you heard any of Mikhail's amps? If so, what did you think of them? What about Ray's stuff? You mentioned Craig's amps [Eddie Current], have you heard them?_


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## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* 
_I just know from experience that certain equipment sound better in combination with other equipment then others._

 

That is for sure, one of the truisms to the hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* 
_It could well be that it is a very good amp for the price indeed._

 

This is what I would expect. China made products do offer great value. I look forward to your impressions.


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## aerius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_Those listening to aerius, who has said the Sony SA 5000 lacks detail, about the Bada PH12, may be not getting the best opinion._

 

That's a funny one coming from a person who claims the SA5000 has more detail than other headphones because it hides details which other headphones reveal and is thus more "true to the source". Right after claiming the SA5000 has more detail because it reveals things which other headphones don't. No folks, that's not a typo, he really does contradict himself repeatedly. Not to mention the claims of "more detailed and neutral than a Stax". Frankly a politician's opinion is more trustworthy & reliable than drathurwells's.


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## tourmaline

LOL. having owned a stax i can tell that it is really very detailed and neutral. high and mid are very clean but low end is a bit lacking. I don't think however that something hiding details would be more neutral or realistic.
 To me neutral means revealing what is there and not being in it's way. Not adding anything to the signal. If you have that neutral components, details will show by itself. Overemphasizing treble could well unbalance the complete picture of the music. Personally i rather would have somewhat less detailed highs then emphasized if the balance is right. It will just add to listeners fatigue.






 "I reject your reality and substitute my own" - Adam Savage
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems like you are one of the mythbusters now.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aerius* 
_That's a funny one coming from a person who claims the SA5000 has more detail than other headphones because it hides details which other headphones reveal and is thus more "true to the source". Right after claiming the SA5000 has more detail because it reveals things which other headphones don't. No folks, that's not a typo, he really does contradict himself repeatedly. Not to mention the claims of "more detailed and neutral than a Stax". Frankly a politician's opinion is more trustworthy & reliable than drathurwells's._


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## elrod-tom

OK...last warning. Let's everyone just lighten up and stop with all the nasty back and forth.


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aerius* 
_That's a funny one coming from a person who claims the SA5000 has more detail than other headphones because it hides details which other headphones reveal and is thus more "true to the source". Right after claiming the SA5000 has more detail because it reveals things which other headphones don't. No folks, that's not a typo, he really does contradict himself repeatedly. Not to mention the claims of "more detailed and neutral than a Stax". Frankly a politician's opinion is more trustworthy & reliable than drathurwells's._

 

Where did I ever say that the SA5000 hide things that are revealed by other headphones?

 This is what you said when you said the SA5000 lacked detail - I never said it you did.

 I have always said the SA5000 was a high resolution headphone with detail revealing sound.


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## drarthurwells

deleted - see page 5 for tube advice with Bada PH 12


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## tbonner1

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress with the Bada despite all the sniping attacks. Perhaps why some are reacting so strongly is due to what they perceive as a pre conceived agenda and bias for the Bada and, to a lesser extent, the Sony SA5000 and AKG 701. It is clear (to me) that you have spent much time critically listening to music with the tools we all love on this forum and want to share your knowledge. As a person who has wondered through the audio forest of buying and selling an endless amount of audio gear of the years, I thank you for not withering under all this noise. 

 I have found drautherwells posts to be very closely aligned with my own findings. It was 30+ years ago Harry Pearson of the Absolute sound introduced the synergistic pairing of the ARC SP3A tube preamp and solid state power amp(GAS Ampzilla). This gave us the tubey sound in the midrange and soundstage but the grip of solid state bass, which correlates to the reports on the Bada PH12, G&W T2.6F and the OK2000 hybrid.

 These Chinese amps are relatively inexpensive and represent real value for the headphile. I share your genuine enthusiasm about this new generation of amps and look forward to the future.


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## bluemeteor

The real issue with these three fine amps, the issue that we all have to address, is that the Chinese are doing more with Vacuum tubes than anyone in the world and thereby keeping our hobby alive. 

 Read the blog on the PVC web site - it is really interesting.


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_These quotes of yours 'tube input; tube amplify; tube driving; field effect transistor power amplification' indicate to me that the three triod tubes of the Bada PH12 are very much involved in the sound output. This is confirmed by significant changes in sound quality that result from tube changes in the three tubes. You can effect more of a tube sound or more of a transistor sound by making such changes - dial your sound. How can this be if, as you say, "...the output device is just FET."? The three tubes are very much involved in sound quality, and thus in amplification, it would seem. The FETs are used in gain amplification.

 Comments?_

 

OK..reading the Chinese version of description indicated to me that the actual amplifiation stage is FET based and not tube based. the Tube is only used in the input, votage regulation and power stage. Singal amplification is done via FET entirely.

 I don't think Chinese amp is anywhere near the quality of the amps we get here even compare to DIY. One reviewer on Erji.net just recnelty compared AM650 (one of the better all tube design) with Xcanv3 and Xcan beat it silly. And I know what Xcan sounds like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (not even close to my Dynahi


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## tourmaline

You would be surprised how good this amp sounds. Especially with good tubes it sounds wonderfull. Never heard any amp that gives a realizm that the bada does. The bada sounds lots better then xcan v3! heard that one myself for a week or so! The bada can reproduce lifelike instruments.
 Also owned a very expensive maxed out stax tubes amp wich never sounded as nice as the bada. With the bada it's like listening to the real instrument up close. Some people like more detail, wich most of the time means loss of tonal body! hence sounding lean or dry!

 The fets give it speed and accurasy and the tubes give it body! You will never get that rich tone with a transistor amp! Not even the dynahi!

 That is just alot of nonsense! They use the same parts as you guys do but are cheaper per hour, that's why they make cheap good amps!

 Also alot of good dacs are comming from china beating alot of americans in that pricerange!


 The only other real great headphone amp i think is worth owning is the cary audio 300 sei, wich is the best tube headphone amp, period! but also very expensive, at 4000 dollars. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* 
_OK..reading the Chinese version of description indicated to me that the actual amplifiation stage is FET based and not tube based. the Tube is only used in the input, votage regulation and power stage. Singal amplification is done via FET entirely.

 I don't think Chinese amp is anywhere near the quality of the amps we get here even compare to DIY. One reviewer on Erji.net just recnelty compared AM650 (one of the better all tube design) with Xcanv3 and Xcan beat it silly. And I know what Xcan sounds like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (not even close to my Dynahi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* 
_OK..reading the Chinese version of description indicated to me that the actual amplifiation stage is FET based and not tube based. the Tube is only used in the input, votage regulation and power stage. Singal amplification is done via FET entirely._

 



 [size=x-small]So, what is your point here? Tube changes in the Bada serve to drastically alter the sound, even more so that in many all tube amps. I am always amazed at this. I can make it sound like a solid state amp or a really lush and liquid all tube amp by using certain tubes.[/size]


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* 
_I don't think Chinese amp is anywhere near the quality of the amps we get here even compare to DIY. One reviewer on Erji.net just recnelty compared AM650 (one of the better all tube design) with Xcanv3 and Xcan beat it silly. And I know what Xcan sounds like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (not even close to my Dynahi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

[size=x-small]Chinese amps can be world class. NTA makes a KT88 based Class A amp that Hyperion markets for about $3000 - nearly 10 times as much as the Chinese price - an award winning amp. Mark Levinson sells Chinese-made amps in the west under his Rose brand. No amp at the same price can surpass the Ming Da MC66AE for $325, the G&W T2.6F for $355 or the Bada PH12 for $425 (prices for new, shipped, paypal fee includedamps), and many (if not all) amps at twice these prices are not as good.[/size]


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## rocktboy

I am going to chime in here for a change. 

 For those of you that keeps talking S**t about Bada when you have never heard it please stop! 

 We all have different ears and hear differently. I have almost exactly the same setup as drarthurwells. Sa5k is my favourite headphone of all the headphones I have owned or heard. And Bada ph-12 with the RIGHT TUBES (right tubes being the ones that suit YOUR taste) driving Sa5k's is one of the best sound I have ever heard, out of a headphone, on audiophile recordings. On low bitrate mp3's or not so well recorded cd's the combo sounds like crap. It really is a case of crap in -> crap out. 

 If you want to question my hearing let me tell you a little about my music journey. I have been playing violin since 5 years old. I could have turned professionally at 11 but decided against it. I have been into 2 channel stereo since the early 90's. I have heard countless 2 channel high end systems and been to numerous audio shows hearing $200k+ highend setups. I personally have a $4k 2 channel setup that to my ears sounds better than 80% of the $20k setups in audio shows. I value accuracy over any euphonic distortion. 

 I mostly attend classical concerts or chamber music or live jazz clubs so I have good confidence in saying I know what the 'correct' timbre should sound like. 

 As far as headphone goes I have had a Grado SR60 and a headroom little amp since the early 90's and never felt the need to upgrade for ~10 years!!! 
 I have also heard Mikail's highend amps driving Rs1 (I am also a Grado fan) or HD650 and I am NOT that impressed, although to be fair they were in meet conditions. 

 And yes, the Bada Ph12 doesn't do Grado's. But with the Sa5k it really is the best synergy I have ever heard, and that makes it a top headphone amp, for the Sa5k. 

 for chesebert, your xcanv3 is one decision away from being made in china. dont you know a lot of musical fidelity stuff is made in china? do you really think there is going to be any difference between the same amp , one made in uk and one made in china? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll have to agree with drarthurwell's opinion that aerius is giving people mis information on this. aeruis listened to the bada with rs-1 and akg. 
 First of all, Bada ph12 does not do grado's. Second, I don't care for the akg sound, so what ever listening impressions he has there doesn't apply to me. Just the same as aerius (and many others) doesn't care for the sa5k sound and whatever I say about how good the sa5k sounds thru Bada ph12 doesn't apply to them. To say that Bada Ph12 is universally good or bad is both wrong.


----------



## tourmaline

That was what struck me, the richdom of timbre and body. When i listen to the bada i think to myself, yes, that is how real instruments really sound.

 In general, i think we can say that the bada ph12 does well with high impedance headphones like the hd650, the SA 5k's and the akg 701. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocktboy* 
_I am going to chime in here for a change. 

 For those of you that keeps talking S**t about Bada when you have never heard it please stop! 

 We all have different ears and hear differently. I have almost exactly the same setup as drarthurwells. Sa5k is my favourite headphone of all the headphones I have owned or heard. And Bada ph-12 with the RIGHT TUBES (right tubes being the ones that suit YOUR taste) driving Sa5k's is one of the best sound I have ever heard, out of a headphone, on audiophile recordings. On low bitrate mp3's or not so well recorded cd's the combo sounds like crap. It really is a case of crap in -> crap out. 

 If you want to question my hearing let me tell you a little about my music journey. I have been playing violin since 5 years old. I could have turned professionally at 11 but decided against it. I have been into 2 channel stereo since the early 90's. I have heard countless 2 channel high end systems and been to numerous audio shows hearing $200k+ highend setups. I personally have a $4k 2 channel setup that to my ears sounds better than 80% of the $20k setups in audio shows. I value accuracy over any euphonic distortion. 

 I mostly attend classical concerts or chamber music or live jazz clubs so I have good confidence in saying I know what the 'correct' timbre should sound like. 

 As far as headphone goes I have had a Grado SR60 and a headroom little amp since the early 90's and never felt the need to upgrade for ~10 years!!! 
 I have also heard Mikail's highend amps driving Rs1 (I am also a Grado fan) or HD650 and I am NOT that impressed, although to be fair they were in meet conditions. 

 And yes, the Bada Ph12 doesn't do Grado's. But with the Sa5k it really is the best synergy I have ever heard, and that makes it a top headphone amp, for the Sa5k. 

 for chesebert, your xcanv3 is one decision away from being made in china. dont you know a lot of musical fidelity stuff is made in china? do you really think there is going to be any difference between the same amp , one made in uk and one made in china? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to agree with drarthurwell's opinion that aerius is giving people mis information on this. aeruis listened to the bada with rs-1 and akg. 
 First of all, Bada ph12 does not do grado's. Second, I don't care for the akg sound, so what ever listening impressions he has there doesn't apply to me. Just the same as aerius (and many others) doesn't care for the sa5k sound and whatever I say about how good the sa5k sounds thru Bada ph12 doesn't apply to them. To say that Bada Ph12 is universally good or bad is both wrong._


----------



## Svperstar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* 
_In general, i think we can say that the bada ph12 does well with high impedance headphones like the hd650, the SA 5k's and the akg 701._

 

The SA5000 is only 70 ohms iirc


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Svperstar* 
_The SA5000 is only 70 ohms iirc_

 

Yes, The Bada does well with 40 ohm nominal impedance headphones or better. When you get down to 32 ohms or lower - low impedance headphones - you notice some slight tone coloration (some people may like it). This is true of many other headphone amps.


----------



## tourmaline

For some 70 ohms is allready high impedance.LOL. Grado is 32 ohms.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Svperstar* 
_The SA5000 is only 70 ohms iirc_


----------



## Svperstar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* 
_For some 70 ohms is allready high impedance.LOL. Grado is 32 ohms.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I always considered the 300 ohm Senns and 600 ohm AKGs high and anything under 100 ohms low


----------



## drarthurwells

Advice for Bada PH 12 owners:

*Must not take out tubes until the amp has been turned off for some time - removing tubes when some residual power is in the amp can weaken the mosfets. I turn off and wait 12 hours or more before removing tubes to change them. I do much tube changing and have blown about 3 mosfets over a year's time by not leaving the amp off long enough before removing tubes. To absolutely insure no damage to mosfets: Only take out tubes (in changing them) when the amp has been off overnight - do tube changes only once a day at the most, and do so only just before you go to turn it on for the first time that day. The tube has to remain in the circuit until power stored in the circuit dissipates. People who do this never have any trouble.

 Insert and remove tubes by holding the base and not the glass part - twisting or pulling on the glass can loosen it from its base. Also, take care in correctly lining up the tube pins when putting in a tube - it is possible to force the tube in when the pins are misaligned (won't get audio out of one or both sides that way). I use a black felt marker and mark the top of the Bada to line up with the guide pin slot, then put tape on the tube base, adjacent to the pin guide, lining up the two when inserting a tube. * 

 The Bada can be used with dozens of 6SN7 tube combos that all sound good - as well as many that don't sound good at all. The dozens that are good are each different from each other - like having dozens of great amps to choose from. Using different tubes, I can configure my Bada to sound like other amps, or to sound best with particular CDs, etc.

*Update 4/07: My "Gold Standard" combos are:

 Sylvania WGT with two Chinese Shuguang in back

 Electro Harmonix Gold with two Chinese in back

 RCA GT Black glass (clear glass GT may be as good) with two Raytheon GT T-plates

 RCA GT Black glass (clear glass GT may be as good) with two Sylvania W

 Electro Harmonix Gold with two Raytheon GT T-plates

 Chinese Shuguang GT in front and two Sylvania GTA or WGTA

 Ken Rad GT (staggered plates not parallel plates) with two Chinese Shuguang in back


 My favorite combo with the Shugang: Two Shugang 6H8P (6SN7) with one Sylvania WGT (or Electro Harmonix Gold) is a real winning combo in the Bada 12. Detail, sharp 3-D imaging, strong bass, transparency, and nice natural timbre.

 Individual preferences dictate which combo is best and some of the other combos below may be best to some. *

 The Electro Harmonix 6SN7 GT Gold (only the Gold) is most similar to the Sylvania W GT in sound. Either one makes a good input tube when used with two Raytheon VT 231 (or GT) as outputs - one of my favorite tube combos. Now, the Raytheon come with either T black plates or flat black plates, and sound different. The Raytheon GT with flat plates is smooth with lovely timbre, and has softer edges and a more forgiving sound than the T plates. However, the T plates is a sharper and highly resolving sound that shines if used with the best sources and headphones - those who like the Raptor would really love this sound (not as lean as the Raptor with a fuller tone body). However, if you use a Sylvania W used instead of the Sylvania W GT as input, with the Raytheon GTs still as outputs, there is a shift more to the rich-tone-body/soft-tone-edge of the spectrum (away from the lean tone/sharp edge side), which lends a soft liquidity with reduced tone image (instrument) separation. Some may like this but many will find it is too euphonic, as I do.


 When I want a high resolution sound that separates instruments and reveals inner detail in complex orchestration, and has strong bass, I use the EH Gold with two Raytheon VT231 (or plain GT) with black T plates. When I want a softer and smoother sound with some more tone richness then I use other combos.

 Tbonner1 alerted me to using the Chinese Shuguang GT (variously designated as a 6N8C or a 6SN7) in front and two Ken Rad GT or VT231 (staggered plates only). This combo is a real winner - one of the very best for sure. Detailed, high resolution, with strong bass (too much bass with the HD650 though) and natural (but lean, like solid state) timbre - to overcome the leanness use two Sylvania WGT with the Chinese Shuguang GT - one of my favorites. I have been getting good results from the lowly GTB tubes. I used two Sylvania GTB as outputs - these are silmilar to Ken Rad in being mellow and slightly rich in tone - and I used a Japanese GTB (hard to find - two are Hit Ray and the other two are Signet - both brands look the same and likely made by Matsu****a) as the input tube. I was very pleased - open, detailed, sharp images, like the Shuguang and Ken Wood combo but without the touch of harshness, and not as lean - however the bass was not quite as strong. I used an Ensign GTB (God knows who makes it - think it is European) as the input with the two Sylvania GTBs and this is also quite good - slightly richer than above. GTBs can be good (from Sylvania, Tung Sol, Raytheon, and Japanese and European brands) and are inexpensive. 

 Another really great combo uses a Sylvania GT or VT231 with T plates and two Raytheon 5692 brown base.

 Now, if you use the Sylvania W as input with two GE GTA or two Ken Rad VT -231 (or GTs) as outputs, you get a nice balance between rich tone/soft edge and lean tone/sharp edge. However, the Sylvania W and two Ken Rads have richer and fuller (and more liquid) tones with stronger bass but softer tone edges (lower resolution that is good for poorly recorded CDS), while the W and two GE GTAs are higher resolution with sharper tone images and better 3-D imaging, will being slightly less rich, liquid and full. I much prefer the latter with good recordings but prefer the former with many older recordings. However, if you use the Sylvania W GT here instead of the W (as the single input) - with the two GE GTAs or two Ken Rad GTs - you shift decidedly back to a rich tone/soft edge and it is too euphonic. However, a great compromise between the two above combos is to use one Sylvania W with two Sylvania JAN CHS GT with triangle black plates (or two Sylvania VT231 GT with T black plates for slightly more detail) - could be the best for you. 

 Now, take two Sylvania W as the output tubes, with one Raytheon VT231 (or GT) as the input tube and you have detail but it is too lean. So use a RCA VT 231 (or GT) as input and the same two Sylvania W tubes as outputs and you get one of the very best overall with most CDs - combines detail, sharply defined tone images focused in empty space, transparency, and a naturally rich timbre. Sub a Tung Sol GT "mouse ears" for the RCA VT 231 here, keeping the two Sylvania W, and you get another excellent combo.

 Another neutral balance combo is to use the Sylvania W GT with two Tung Sol GT White Label gray plates (not the mouse ears) instead of the Raytheons. To shift really further to a lean tone body/sharp tone edge, use the Sylvania 6SN7W GT as input with the harsh and hard sounding Shuguang 6N8P (sometimes labeled 6SN7 GT and Made in China) as output tubes. A lean but very sharp imaging and detailed sound. However, this combo can still be edgy and harsh at times, because of the Chinese tubes used.

 It is the combo that is perhaps more important than the tubes used, and it best to use different tube types as input and output tubes rather than the same type in all positions (but use the same in all input positions and then the same in all output positions but different between the inputs and outputs - very simple: different but the same). The Tung Sol Round Plate GT and Sylvania W are perhaps the two best 6SN7 tubes ever (the RCA VT231 and GT black glass rank here also), but I can configure them with certain tubes to get a very bad sound. Also, if I use Sylvania Ws (or any other tube) in all positions of input and output, the sound suffers over other combos. 

 Other good combos using old tubes from the 40s and 50s, not in order of best sound, any one of these could be the absolute best for you, and the bad combos are not discusssed:

 1. Ken Rad VT-231 (or plain GT) as input and two RCA VT-231 (or plain GT) as outputs. Raytheon VT-231 or GT works well here instead of the Ken Rad. One Tung Sol GT Black Glass round plates with two RCA CRC GT (or RCA VT-231 or RCA GT) is a variant here that would be the very best for many.

 2a. Raytheon WGT or Sylvania VT-231 (or plain GT, or GE USA GT) as input and 2 RCA VT-231 (or plain GT) as the output tubes - a great all around combo that I like very much and that some would regard as the best. 2b. If you use the Sylvania GTA (instead of the GT) as the input tube, keeping with the RCA GTs as outputs, you add slightly more tone edge sharpness and slightly less tone body, and some may like this. Using one Sylvania GT as input with two RCA GT as outputs provides the best bang for the bucks, and is close to the more expensive combos. The Sylvania VT231, CHS and GT comes with either black triangle plates (softer, smoother) or black T plates (more detail and resolution) - select on this basis.

 3a. Sub the Tung Sol GT white label gray plate for the Sylvania above (as input) and keeping 2 RCA VT-231 (or plain GT) as the output tubes, adds more transient bite and sharper imaging with slightly less liquidity and tone body richness, for a very realistic sound.
 3b. Also, I have a Tung Sol GT black plate (with a small dual rectangular plate extension that protrudes above the top mica - very unusual) that is too euphonic with the two RCA GTs, 3c. but is better (some slight sibilance at rare times) with two RCA GTAs.
 3d. Now, take this same unusual Tung sol GT black plate and use it with two Sylvania VT-231 and you get enough improvement to make this one of the best combos. It is the combo that is as important as the tubes used. 3e. I have a tall bottle black plate Tung Sol GTB that also sounds good with the Sylvania VT-231s - the GTB sounds like the Tung Sol GT and may in fact be a GT mislabeled as a GTB (happened some with Tung Sol tubes).

 4. Ken Rad VT-231 (or plain GT) as input and GE GTA as the output tubes - detailed treble, great midrange clarity and 3-D tone imaging with a nice natural timbre and tone body, makes this combo the best for some people.

 5. Electro Harmonix Gold GT as input with two GE GTA as outputs. Adds some tone body richness/fullness compared to the above combo - a little more life, excitement, etc. An inexpensive tube set up that sounds quite good.

 6. Tung Sol GT "mouse ears" black plate as input and two GE GTA as outputs. A little better treble timbral nuance and contrast than the above makes this a contender for the very best. Has a real nice timbre with a pristine quality. Also try two Tung Sol GT mouse ears with one RCA VT 231 or GT black plate - ranks with the best.

 7. Tung Sol GT "mouse ears" black plate as input and two Sylvania VT-231 or GTs as outputs. A little more refined sound than #6 above but at the expense of slightly less timbral contrast. Some will prefer this. Tung Sols go well with the Sylvania Vt-231/GT with the exception of the mouse ears - don't have a round plate yet.

 8. CBS GT or GE Canada GT as the single input tube, and 2 RCA GT VT-231 (or plain GT) as the output tubes. Solid realistic sound - leaner tone than number 2 above.

 9. RCA VT-231 (or GT) as the input tube and 2 Raytheon VT-231 (or GT) as the output tubes. Another solid combo.

 10. Raytheon GT VT-231 (or plain GT) as the input tube and two Sylvania or RCA VT-231 (or GT) as the output tubes.

 11. Sylvania W GT (not W and not GT and not VT-231) as input and two Sylvania GTA (not GT, VT-231 or GTB)


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


 so use a RCA VT 231 (or GT) as input and the same two Sylvania W tubes and you get perhaps the very best - combines detail, sharply defined tone images focused in empty space, transparency, and a naturally rich timbre - pure magic. 
 


 Don't forget the best controlled and detailed low end as well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The sylvania w tubes are something special, not cheap though. Be warned!


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi all, this is my first post
 I come from a DIY valve (tubes) forum and I've read right through this thread with great interest. I have a WAD Mk1 valve h/amp. It uses the great little ECL83 valve x 2. It has only (2) caps in the signal path. I have changed the stock item for Dynamicaps, these are really clean open caps, with great definition but I think I wll revert to my favourites - PIOs. I've also changed out most of the PSU caps for Elna Silmics - I refuse to pay the silly prices for Black Gates. Also I have shunted the pot.

 May I make a suggestion drarthurwells - I don't know the layout of the Bada PH12 but how many caps (if any) are in the signal path? You obviously like the SA5K phones, why not think about changing the relevant caps for PIOs. I feel sure that using PIOs may well eliminate that 'edge' you have mentioned, using these phones with the Bada. 

 Shunting the potentiometer - this is so simple and such an effective mod that it has to be heard to be believed. Just the same as valve or tube rolling will definately change the sound of an amp, well, so does this. I have used Tantalums on the Alps but may well try some others, especially carbon types. Others have used expensive Vishays but then found there was a bit of a hard 'sheen'.

 To tell the truth, I'm really not sure about the Alps pots. I used to use Panasonics but they are no longer available. There is a German co. Thel Audio who have introduced (2) new ranges of pots., the cheaper of the two ranges looks very interesting about E30 I think. The Pan. pots were/are very clear, better to have that clarity at the input and change by using caps to suit your individual taste.

 I think that I am going to try one of these Bada PH12s. I have to use a h/amp because of where I live now for two reasons, renting an apartment in Granada province, Andalucia - it is just too damned hot, average temp. 83F inside the badly built apartments (in Spain they are all C.R.A.P) and using valve power amps is just going to shorten their lives - and anyway, how can you listen to music with huge floorstanding fans. Also there simply is no sound insulation, so at night even without the heat I have good neighbours to consider.

 Drartherwells - where are the best US suppliers to check out for your rec. tubes and also where should I look to replace the cables for my Senn. 600 phones at a reasonable price. Can I also re-use the little gold plated can connectors, even though they are built in to moulded plugs. I find the sound of Senns. a bit 'hifi' so I would like to repair them ( a broken cable) and sell on, then look to buy some AKGs' or Sonys.

 Thanks in advance for any info on the above.


----------



## drarthurwells

Black Stuart: May I make a suggestion drarthurwells - I don't know the layout of the Bada PH12 but how many caps (if any) are in the signal path? 

 Art: See the picture on page 3 of this thread.

 Black Stuart: You obviously like the SA5K phones, why not think about changing the relevant caps for PIOs. I feel sure that using PIOs may well eliminate that 'edge' you have mentioned, using these phones with the Bada.

 Art: Yes, the Solen caps of the Bada could be improved with a bypass or replacement. I prefer the K701 - a great match with the Bada - to either the HD650 or the SA5000.

 Black Stuart: Shunting the potentiometer - this is so simple and such an effective mod that it has to be heard to be believed. Just the same as valve or tube rolling will definately change the sound of an amp, well, so does this. I have used Tantalums on the Alps but may well try some others, especially carbon types. Others have used expensive Vishays but then found there was a bit of a hard 'sheen'.

 Art: Sounds like a great mod.

 Black stuart: I think that I am going to try one of these Bada PH12s. I have to use a h/amp because of where I live now for two reasons, renting an apartment in Granada province, Andalucia - it is just too damned hot, average temp. 83F inside the badly built apartments (in Spain they are all C.R.A.P) and using valve power amps is just going to shorten their lives - and anyway, how can you listen to music with huge floorstanding fans. Also there simply is no sound insulation, so at night even without the heat I have good neighbours to consider.

 Bada runs hot with 3 6SN7 tubes and class A operation - it has an internal fan that cuts on at times (except in the winter in a real cool room).

 Black Stuart: Where are the best US suppliers to check out for your rec. tubes.

 Art: I have hundreds of tubes at low prices - overseas shipment is usually only about $6 USD. You can get RCA, Sylvania or Tung Sol GTs rebranded as Motorola, Silvertone, Zenith, Philco, etc. and they are cheap (about $7) but as good as the name brands - just stick with GT types in 6SN7s. I recently got a like new National 5692 that is the same as the very expensive RCA 5692 (which some said were all made by GE regardless of the brand name on the tube).

 Black Stuart: Where should I look to replace the cables for my Senn. 600 phones at a reasonable price. Can I also re-use the little gold plated can connectors, even though they are built in to moulded plugs. I find the sound of Senns. a bit 'hifi' so I would like to repair them ( a broken cable) and sell on, then look to buy some AKGs' or Sonys.

 Art: Others can advise you here - start a new thread "Best Senn. 600 Cable Replacement Source?" By all means dump the Sennys and get K701s but be sure this makes your amp happy first - some people have amps that drive Sennys better than the K701 (which is a good reason to change amps).


----------



## tbonner1

"...get K701s but be sure this makes your amp happy first - some people have amps that drive Sennys better than the K701 (which is a good reason to change amps)."

 This is very insightful. I find most headphones in the AKG K701 class to be hyper sensitive to amp/source changes. 

 I also have found that amp changes seem to make a large difference in the sound of the Sennys, perhaps a bit more than other high end headphones.

 Just got a Ming Da 66, a well made amp with three transformers. It has an impedence switch for 32,300 and 600 ohm. This adjustment seems to change the output level while leaving the frequency response of the amp surprisingly similar on each setting. This amp is quiet on the Senn 650's with very powerful bass.

 Gee...I love this thread with highly evolved advice regarding the Bada and tube rolling.

 Any advice on tube rolling for the Ming Da 66?


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tbonner1* 
_"...get K701s but be sure this makes your amp happy first - some people have amps that drive Sennys better than the K701 (which is a good reason to change amps)."

 This is very insightful. I find most headphones in the AKG K701 class to be hyper sensitive to amp/source changes. 

 I also have found that amp changes seem to make a large difference in the sound of the Sennys, perhaps a bit more than other high end headphones.

 Just got a Ming Da 66, a well made amp with three transformers. It has an impedence switch for 32,300 and 600 ohm. This adjustment seems to change the output level while leaving the frequency response of the amp surprisingly similar on each setting. This amp is quiet on the Senn 650's with very powerful bass.

 Gee...I love this thread with highly evolved advice regarding the Bada and tube rolling.

 Any advice on tube rolling for the Ming Da 66?_

 

From what I heard, the Ming 66 is very limited in regards to amp rolling..


----------



## SLCanhead

The preamp (input) tube is a 12ax7, so there are many options. From what I have read, the input tube is generally the one that makes a noticable sonic difference, anyway. You have many options w/the 12ax7, as it's a common tube. If you got yours from Cattylink, their export version already is upgrated w/an Electro Harmonix Gold Pin, which is a pretty nice tube. I switched to this tube, as mine didn't come w/the EH; it made a nice/noticable difference. I haven't tried other tubes, so I couldn't comment on other brands (I have been happy w/the EH). This amp may not be as sensitive to tube rolling, as other amps, from a sonic sense, so you would have to try it out.

 The 2 power tubes are "Russian" 6n6/6h6 tubes (don't get these confused w/the wrong ones). These are 9pin tubes, which aren't that common in the US. I have a link what should be the correct tube, here (there is a link to the specs, as well):

http://thetubestore.com/ru-6h6p.html

 The power tubes can be found on eBay, at times, for relatively inexpensive; however, I can't vouch for their quality. I actually have some Electro Harmonix 6h6 tubes on order, which I have only seen on one site; they have to be manufactured and aren't cheap. I will let you know what I think, once I am able to try them out.

 Good luck!


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Art,
 I first looked at this thread some months ago so forgot about the photo of the layout on page 3.

 First things first - heat, especially excessive heat is bad news for amps and speakers coils. I just don't understand why manufacturers don't deal with this in the case of amps.

 Bada is no exception. OK they put the signal valves on the top plate, that's a positive but why such a shallow chassis. Double the depth of the chassis, perforate the top plate and the bottom plate and you will create a natural convection current. It's certainly possible to do a DIY perforation of the bottom plate and if your careful of the top plate as well - if you can keep the temperature of components down you will extend the life of components considerably and well within their operational parameters you will get a better sound.

 The PCB looks to be a quality job but as always, it's harder to dissipate heat when a PCB is used. Just drilling it CAREFULLY in the right places will help with heat dissipation. I have to post a DISCLAIMER here - I don't want some SOAB lawyer trying to sue me - if you attempt any of the above it is at your own risk.

 Art, I see that Bada has used some meaty heatsinks BUT do they touch the chassis? this is a good way to dissipate more heat.

 I have to applaud Bada on the wattage of the resistors they have used and in critical places they have used tight tolerance ones - bravo.

 Unless I am reading the visuals wrong - to shunt the pot, you only need to desolder the incoming signal wires (I would imagine at least double shielded as they traverse the PCB) to access the pos. and earth wires desolder from PCB, solder up your chosen resistors to the wires and PCB. It looks like they would be better routed over the incoming signal wires. If you don't like this mod it's easy to re-instate the original configuration. If the pot is a 50K log. use 47K Rs.

 Now if I can get Cattylink to respond I shall buy a Bada PH12. this h/amp is in may ways similar to the ultimate headwize h/amp - Andreas is a very good designer.

 Personally, until I have heard the Bada for some time, I would'nt dream of trying any mods and remember - only one mod at a time, otherwise you lose your reference points and you wont know which mod did what, frustrating but I learned the hard way (don't we all).

 Stuart


----------



## drarthurwells

You are spot on about heat dissipation.

 The Bada's internal fan cuts on after 50 minutes or so - depends on the room temperature.

 I drilled some 5 MM diameter holes along the front edge of the bottom plate. I also tilt the rear of the amp about 35 MM or more higher than the front (put a piece of wood under the rear feet). This allows air to enter from the front of the bottom and exit from the elevated rear vents.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* 
_You are spot on about heat dissipation.

 The Bada's internal fan cuts on after 50 minutes or so - depends on the room temperature.

 I drilled some 5 MM diameter holes along the front edge of the bottom plate. I also tilt the rear of the amp about 35 MM or more higher than the front (put a piece of wood under the rear feet). This allows air to enter from the front of the bottom and exit from the elevated rear vents._

 

Did that help much... does the fan kick on less often?


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* 
_Did that help much... does the fan kick on less often?_

 

Not really, but it makes me think that it helps.

 Like buying life insurance - does you no good but makes you feel better.
 I have replaced them twice and now do not touch the tubes in the amp until it has been off for 12 hours or more. This allows all power in the circuit to dissipate. Here is how to replace a mosfet:

 Be careful handling mosfets - can short them easily with static from your fingers.

 To remove mosfet, first remove bottom plate. Then remove the fan (don't lose the 4 screws and nuts holding it in) to allow you to put bottom cover aside, or if you prefer, disconnect two wires that run from fan through the side plate cover, to the front of circuit board where it plugs in. Unplug it (may be difficult, some plugs have a vinyl glue covering) then pull it through the side and out the back, and put aside.

 Remove 6 screws by the tubes and two screws holding the two Toshiba K1529 mosfets.

 Lift cables (on each side of circuit board) out and up from the sides so the main circuit board can be lifted up from the rear where the mosfets are. Lift the board up allowing the front to remain down - tilt it up at the mosfet end. Put a screwdriver in, at the middle of the rear of the board, to prop it up at the rear so it is elevated an inch or so.

 The installed mosfets have a insulator between the frame and the mosfet body, and have a small lock washer, then a larger flat washer, under the screw holding it to the frame. Don't lose any of these.

 Attach a bare ground wire to your wrist that connects to the ground of you AC wall inlet (not the hot pin) and to the frame of the amp, when working on the amp's mosfets, or when handling new mosfets. This will prevent a static charge from your skin that could short the mosfet and ruin it. Do not handle mosfets unless you are grounded.

 Now, snip each of the three pins of the bad mosfet, underneath the circuit board, close to the mosfet body and take the bad mosfet out. Then use needle nosed pliars or a tweezer to grasp the mosfet pins remaining in the circuit board while applying a solder iron on top of the pin, and gently pull the pin through the borad - be gentle so as not to damage copper cylinder inserts in each board hole.

 Use a grounded soldering iron of about 40 watts with a pointed (not chisel or screwdriver) tip, along with a separate solder (vaccum) sucker, to remove all the solder you can from the mosfet pins (three per mosfet) from the top. A desoldering iron may also do this. You need the pin holes to be open and clear with no solder in them. If your soldering iron is not a 3 prong plugged grounded one, then touch the tip to the grounded frame of the Bada, to discharge any static, each time before touching the tip to the Bada/'s circuit board.

 In putting in a new mosfet, take a new mosfet and (with a ground wire attached to your body) bend the three pins near the body of the mosfet so that they bend bend up (90 degrees) and toward the other end (another 30 degrees or so) of the mosfet body. Use two small pieces of tape on the sides of the mosfet insulator piece to attach the insulator piece to the bottom of the mosfet body, so the insulator will not drop off of it. Put the mosfet body down under the circuit board with the pins sticking upwards and slide the pins under the board, then upwards through the three holes of the board. Bend one (or more) pin tip to hold it in place so it won't slide out. Make sure the insulator piece is in place. Lower the board and screw the mosfets firmly in place, allowing the pins to bend in place as you force the mosfet in position to be screw it in place.

 Take two 15V diodes and slide one each in the two outside holes of the mosfet pins so that ends of the diodes with the black bands is sticking upwards, away from the mosfet body. Do this for each of the two mosfet bodies. 

 Put the 6 screws besides the tubes in, and attach the board.
 Solder each pin (with the diodes in place). Briefly touch the tip of the iron to the frame edge in order to ground it and remove static, each time you go to solder a connection. In soldering the pins of the mosfet, try to get the solder to wick down the pin to the other side of the board for good conductive contact with the other side of the board. Now join the two ends of the diodes together (where they come from the black banded side of the diode body) and solder the joint to bridge the middle pin of the mosfet.

 Put the two cables on each side in place so they are inside the bottom plane of the frame. Run the wire from the fan through the side plate to the front of the board and plug it in. Replace the bottom cover.


----------



## tbonner1

Thanks Art for keeping this thread going with ongoing support.

 I spoke with Snowy(at Cattylink) and he suggested I wait until after the China holiday is over around Oct . 10 if I order from him. I still may try Pacific Valve as they may be easier to deal with if I want to return it. 

 You were right about the MG Head mk III, it is good and better than the Ming Da 66. Cleaner throughout the treble and midrange with bass not as wooly as the Ming.

 Glad you like the Xiang 708. I think it is so simple with short signal paths the amp gets out of the way and it allows the tubes to sound as they should. The case, boards, volume pot and other parts leave something to be desired. 

 You are also right on about the AKG 701. I want to love the relaxed Senn 650 but the bass is a bit too strong and midrange a bit too dark and laid back. The Senn 650 with the MG Head Mk III in OTL mode is the most synergestic combination I have ever heard, they both perform above and beyond.

 Not one poster on Headfi has been as forthright as you in proclaiming:

 1-The 701 is the (best dynamic) headphone at this moment.

 2-The clear value of the chinese amps when compared to the old school tube amps.

 You have saved countless people huge money and alot of time.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi,

 I have owned a PH12 for a few months now and would have to agree wholeheartedly with Art that this is one cracking h/amp - whether it is the best, I don't know - I hav'nt listened to them all. I bought this h/amp as a relatively cheap way to experience hybrid amps.

 I own a WAD HD83 which is a SET amp using the brilliant Mullard ECL 83 valve. This has been heavily modded with Silmics and the only two signal path caps have been changed for Dynamicaps, extra fast diodes and the Alps pot has been shunted.

 As standard, I was not that impressed with the Bada - everything was there but muted/shut in. After eyeballing a thread about power cords, I decided to try my homebrew PC I use with my CDP PSU.

 WOW what a difference - now the amp had breath and life. Instruments clearly defined, piano ( a very difficult instrument to portray) was piano, guitars were guitars.

 With this change of power cord I simply cannot understand the negative comments made about this h/amp.

 Changes made - I have shunted the pot and I am currently using Vishay Dale 1W, 47K (nothing fancy): there are two pairs of caps that are in the signal path, these are Solen and I don't like them, maybe they are fine in speaker x/overs but IMO are no good here. I have bought ERSE/Mundorf M-cap Audiophiler and Dynamicap to try.

 I changed out the two 1uF x 250V for the Mundorf and this within two days of burning in had a pronounced effect on the sound. I have never used Mundorfs before and I am very, very impressed with the sound. It is a cross between the best polys and PIOs. I have since changed out thw two 2.2uF x 250V for Mundorfs - the difference is not so great but again a positive change. 

 I have yet to try the ERSE or the Dynamicaps, these latter I know from my HD83 h/amp.

 Unfortunately because of the cramped conditions within the Bada (why do designers do this) more changes will be difficult to do.

 A big positive is the over-rated mains tranny - this is always a positive, it means there is so much headroom for the amp to operate in.

 With these changes this is a star buy. Others may prefer other caps or resistors in the Bada. I use mainly vinyl as my source and a Japanese super deck at that and it is a real pleasure to listen to music through a h/amp now.

 I have recently made up some new i/cs using mil. spec. unsheilded, solid core s/plated copper - outstanding. Voices are 3D and in the room, piano is just how piano should sound - I could go on and on.

 It seems a lot of Headfiers buy a h/amp and sell on, when what they should do, is a little modding.

 My only gripe with the Bada PH12 is the heat issue and that can be solved by yes - modding the chassis and PCB. Other than that, I have no plans anytime soon to sell on this great h/amp.


----------



## drarthurwells

Thanks for your PM to me some time ago ago about power cords. The stock power cord that comes with the Bada is skimpy.

 I bought a ZU Birth 1.5 meter powercord new for about $65 on ebay.

 I also use a Tice power conditioner.

 Makes an audible difference for sure.


 BTW, don't forget to protect the mosfets and never change tubes until the residual power in the amp has dissipated - I now wait 12 hours, of the amp being off, before removing a tube.

 People who rarely change tubes have no problems with mosfet failure - those who frequently change tubes do have problems, unless they wait a long time before removing a tube.

*Anyone having a mosfet failure (losing all volume in one channel) should contact me - I will fix them if you pay shipping both ways and $10 to me for parts (or supply me with a Toshiba K1529 mosfet and two 15V diodes).*


----------



## kool bubba ice

I'm getting the BADA12 next week. I kept hearing how great the amp sounds with my SA5000. If it truly is a giant killer I will be very happy.


----------



## Black Stuart

Kool Bubba Ice,
 don't forget, ditch the supplied power cord and don't waste good money on buying commercial.
 Buy something like 20 AWG stranded, silver plated copper wire and make sure it's mil. spec. this is simply the best wire for DIY and dirt cheap off E-bay.

 Use 3 lengths each for pos. & neg. and two for earth. Weave the 3 lengths together - this is dead easy and twist the earth wires. Now use the same weave for all 3 sets of wires - bingo you have a damn fine power cord. To make it look nice sheath the whole thing in something fancy. Before fixing the wires in the plugs use something like De-oxit. 

 Then when you have done this, let them burn in for a couple of days (they may well get even better). Find someone who likes spending good money for nothing and has bought some expensive power cords and do a head-to-head.

 Oh yes and take heed of Art's recs. for tubes - enjoy.

 Stuart


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kool bubba ice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm getting the BADA12 next week. I kept hearing how great the amp sounds with my SA5000. If it truly is a giant killer I will be very happy._

 

OK... OK... OK...

 We're anxious to find out how it sounds with your Senns... as well as low impedence phones... and... if the case gets too hot.

 And... if you get it from Pacific Valve... how they were as a vendor - especially, if you take advantage of their 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

 Let us know when you receive it.


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kool Bubba Ice,
 don't forget, ditch the supplied power cord and don't waste good money on buying commercial.
 Buy something like 20 AWG stranded, silver plated copper wire and make sure it's mil. spec. this is simply the best wire for DIY and dirt cheap off E-bay.

 Use 3 lengths each for pos. & neg. and two for earth. Weave the 3 lengths together - this is dead easy and twist the earth wires. Now use the same weave for all 3 sets of wires - bingo you have a damn fine power cord. To make it look nice sheath the whole thing in something fancy. Before fixing the wires in the plugs use something like De-oxit. 

 Then when you have done this, let them burn in for a couple of days (they may well get even better). Find someone who likes spending good money for nothing and has bought some expensive power cords and do a head-to-head.

 Oh yes and take heed of Art's recs. for tubes - enjoy.

 Stuart_

 

Actually, I bought a Zu new Birth 2 months ago for my old DAC (Modded GM thst I sold)


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK... OK... OK...

 We're anxious to find out how it sounds with your Senns... as well as low impedence phones... and... if the case gets too hot.

 And... if you get it from Pacific Valve... how they were as a vendor - especially, if you take advantage of their 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

 Let us know when you receive it._

 

Different vendor. No problems. Will have it tuesday.


----------



## Black Stuart

Cattylink is an excellant company to deal with and probably the cheapest. Hong Kong Chinese are really good business people and tend to have very good English and Cattylink will probably be the cheapest. Their packing is first class as well.

 As an aside I tend to buy caps/resistors/solder etc from a Tawainese co. THL-Audio - totally reliable and again with first class service and amongst the cheapest I know - Victor Chang is the boss.

 Kool - so now you have a commercial power cord offering in house - spend a few dollars and see what I am talking about.

 I come from a DIY forum where you are considered crazy to buy commercial PCs or i/cs.

 Stuart


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cattylink is an excellant company to deal with and probably the cheapest. Hong Kong Chinese are really good business people and tend to have very good English and Cattylink will probably be the cheapest. Their packing is first class as well.

 As an aside I tend to buy caps/resistors/solder etc from a Tawainese co. THL-Audio - totally reliable and again with first class service and amongst the cheapest I know - Victor Chang is the boss.

 Kool - so now you have a commercial power cord offering in house - spend a few dollars and see what I am talking about.

 I come from a DIY forum where you are considered crazy to buy commercial PCs or i/cs.

 Stuart_

 

Awesome tube amp. Vety musical & live..Never heard the instruments sound so natural before.. To be fair my Experience with tube amps is scarse.. I only listened to the Cayin 1.. & feel the BADA12 is much smoother.. But I liked the 'tubiness' of the Cayin.. The Cayin seemed to have a deeper sound stage, ofcourse I was wearing the AKG1000 at the time..


----------



## gonglee

Where on the web can I buy Bada ph12?

 Thanks in advance...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gonglee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where on the web can I buy Bada ph12?

 Thanks in advance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://www.pacificvalve.us/Headphones.html

 And... you can return it within 30 days, if you don't like it.

 Local company, someone local to back up the warranty, and... a 30 day return policy - seems like that justifies a few dollars more (very few).


----------



## Black Stuart

Kool,
 you don't say if you have ditched the supplied PC. Use an unsheilded one and you will hear the Bada really breathe and come alive.

 Also Bada have used a lot of 1uF Solen caps. These caps sit on the sound, unfortunately because Bada have used such a cramped chassis (why), changing out most of these 1uF caps is impossible. This is a shame because Silmics are so much better and I rate them better as coupling caps than BG and only just behind BG in other positions.

 Check out Art's photo of the PCB, I think it's on page 3 of this thread. You will see 2 x 1uF Solens' just in front of the first two valve bases. Change these for Mundorf/Audiophiler caps and be amazed at the sound. Also you won't complain of a lack of deep bass. Luckily there are two other caps that can easily be changed 2.2uF - these are easy to identify. Again I have used Audiophilers here but also purchased at the same time some American ERSE caps.It's just that the sound is so good now, that I feel disinclined to try these at the moment.

 There is a 15K/2W resistor sitting between the first two valve bases, in my amp it was showing signs of over heating, so I changed it for a Vishay/Dale 3W but it maybe better to use something even meatier like 5W.

 The caps and resistor changes can be made without having to remove the PCB, just by cutting the caps and resistor near their bodies leaving the legs and soldering to these.

 I now have two source components I have no wish to change (the other a Kenwood TT superdeck). My only gripe with the Bada PH12 is the heat that it produces and has not been dealt with at the design stage. This heat will seriously curtail the life of many of the components. So one day I will have to dismantle it and drill out top & bottom plates and the PCB itself.

 This is a truly great h/amp, if it was'nt for the heat issue, I would use the word excellant. Once again a public thank you to Dr Arthur Wells is called for. It was his well written description of this h/amp that made me look further into posibly buying it.


----------



## drarthurwells

Tubes make a big difference.

 Changing tubes in the Bada can be like changing amps.

 Here is one email I got today from someone who switched to one of the three "gold standard" tube combos I list on page 5 of this thread:

 From : @yahoo.com 
 Sent : Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:45 PM 
 To : Arthur Wells <drarthurwells@hotmail.com> 
 Subject : RE: The "Dr. Arthur Wells Inspired Headphone Enjoyment System" 



 Greetings Art,

 I received your box on Friday, inserted the tubes as instructed, turned on the Bada to warm up for 30 min., then settled in to listen. My goodness...I had one of those "A'ha, so that's what I've been missing out on!" moments. I'm not that familiar (as you are) with the lexicon of proper adjectives to match sounds, but I will try. I perceived an aural dimension of richness and improved overall clarity and impact. And that of course was only in comparison to the first combo you sent me, which up to now was all I had. You have saved me much trial and error research by your valid recommendation, and I would go as far to say that the two Sylvania W output and RCA black glass should be standard reference for anyone who owns the Bada, otherwise they would be missing out. (By the way, I still owe you money for the RCA tube which you so wisely included in the box). Also, on some better recordings, for the first time I am able to detect a (3-D?) placement of musicians playing that I never knew was possible...that is surely attributable to the tubes/synergy/combo that you've hand picked.

 This type of improved listening experience reminds me of only time I upgraded from Wireworld IC's to a then new copper interconnect from Outlaw Audio. Wow! is easily the most accurate description of the improved change in hearing so much more music come through. Your suggested tube change combo is no small , subtle improvement. I think it is an esential dynamic part of an overall "best bang for the buck" headphone/amp system. I know now that my personal listening enjoyment has been enhanced thanks to you.

 END 

 Name withheld to protect privacy - will put anyone in contact with this party by their agreement.


----------



## Dan the man

Has anyone compared the Bada PH-12 tube headphone amp to the Woo Audio w6 or the DOGE 6210 EL84 Headphone Amplifier?


----------



## tbonner1

Bada PH12 and Doge reviewed here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...20#post2805020

 Yarland P100 scheduled for review


----------



## zheka

hello

 had anybody tried ultrasone proline 'phones with Bada? 

 i understand Bada is not good match with grados. i wonder if that holds true for ultrasones which are also low impedance - 40 Ohm i believe

 thank you


----------



## Karkass

wow .. 1 EH goldpins with 2 raytheon GT are.. just too good with the bada..
 sounds perfect !!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zheka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello

 had anybody tried ultrasone proline 'phones with Bada? 

 i understand Bada is not good match with grados. i wonder if that holds true for ultrasones which are also low impedance - 40 Ohm i believe

 thank you_

 

Bada PH-12 + Ultrasone Proline 2500/750 = LOVE!!!

 The two match exceptionally well, IMHO. See my brief comments on the dedicated 2500 thread. I ran the Bada w/1x 6SN7EH gold pin and 2x Raytheon VT-231. In short, the best the Ultrasones have sounded to my ears to date. : )


----------



## pataburd

After listening to the (hybrid) Bada for about a week, having purchased it used and fully broken in, I've begun some cursory a/b-ing between it and the (all tube) Darkvoice 336i. Both amps use the 6SN7 tube in the input stage, while the Bada uses two more 6SN7s for driving, and the Darkvoice a single 6AS7.

 Admittedly, I've developed a lengthy attachment to the 336i, which I've owned for 9 months now and to which I have listened regularly over that duration. The Darkvoice, having survived the Meier Headfive, Dynahi Veda-SA and G&W T-2.6F over its abbreviated tenure, now finds itself alongside the well-published Bada PH-12.

 These first impressions are based on the Darkvoice in my home system (Panasonic S47 player/MAC Silver Braided IC, MAC Source and MAC HC PCs) and the Bada in my office system (RAM-modded Samsung HD-841 player/MAC Palladium IC, MAC Source and MAC HC PCs). The Ultrasone Proline 750 were used in both systems. The Darkvoice was tubed w/1x GE 6SN7GTA & 1x JAN-CRC (RCA) 6AS7G; the Bada w/1x National Union 6SN7GT & 2x RCA 6SN7GTB (older style). So, in some sense, it might be argued that the Bada was given favored source and cable status. In defense of the (stock) S47, it is a very musical, budget over-achiever in its own right.

 The biggest difference noted so far is that the Darkvoice is a bit smackier and more tonally focused than the Bada, due perhaps to the 6AS7 driver tube. That said, the PH-12's presentation is more expansive, smoother and renders more ease of detail, although not necessarily quantitatively more detail, compared with the 336i. The Bada's soundstage is laid out very well, with precise discrimination of individual instruments/performers in space and with a heightened perception of "air" inbetween. Bass is deeper, more pervasive and better articulated with the Bada as well, although not as punchy as the Darkvoice. I will also volunteer that the Darkvoice is perhaps seasoned a bit more sweetly and the Bada a bit more neutrally.

 Earl Thomas Conley, Greatest Hits Vol. II, and Michael Jackson, Off The Wall (re-master). Both of these recordings stray toward the bright side. Vocals were more open and airy with the Bada. Bass was more foundational and easier to follow, too. The Darkvoice does lend an elusive breadth, sweetness and integrity to vocals and instrumentals, though. The "Bada sound" is certainly the more transparent of the two offerings, but the Darkvoice has a pleasant "spryness," vividness and relief to it that can be more attention-getting than the Bada. 

 If the Darkvoice is a sponge somewhat sweetly dampened with music, then the Bada is that same sponge, only fully saturated and uniformly swollen with more of that same, albeit slightly more neutrally and less impactfully vintaged, music. 

 So, do I like the Bada? (Oh, yes!) The next step will be to bring the Darkvoice to the office and hook it up to the same source/cables as the Bada.

 Preliminary verdict: "The Bada is very Gooda!" But betta than the Darkvoice? The "if" and "how" of that question remain to be answered. : )

 More to follow . . . God willing, next week (with the HD650 and K701 scheduled to arrive, too!).


----------



## pataburd

Hooked up the HD650/Revelation Audio Labs Silver Reference to the Bada, switched to "high impedance," w/1x RCA 6SN7 gray glass and 2x 6SN7EH (non-gold pin). The sound is excellent, much smoother than with the Proline 750 (w/Bada switched to "low impedance"). The RAL cable makes the HD650 sound much more detailed and immediate, and lifts the Sennheiser "veil."

 With the Proline, the sound is edgy by comparison. When I first auditioned the Bada/750 combination, I had only Ultrasone headphones on hand. Now I am begining to think that the "low impedance issue" does come into play with the Proline. 

 I would be interested in knowing what amplifiers Proline users are running with their headphones.


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 the Bada in it's original form is IMHO no great shakes. With some modifying it's excellant.

 This amp is full of Solens, in the PSU maybe they are acceptable but anywhere in the signal path they are CRAP - cold dull and lifeless, so if you are enjoying it now just think what a little work will do.

 Take the supplied power cord and do what you like with it - stripped down to it's individual wires, they are good for tying things together if you have a garden but don't use it for the Bada. 

 If you take a look at the photos supplied by Art on page 3 of this thread you will see just to the left of the output valves a Solen 1uF x 250V cap - these are real crap and are sitting on the sound. I have used Mundorf Audiophiler caps here which really lift the sound but I am about to fit Dynamicaps here, which I have used in my valve phono stage, these are very good indeed but just today from a Dutch friend I have found out that Solen are introducing a Teflon cap which they rate just behind the fabulousy expensive Ven haus Teflon cap. 

 On the right hand side of the two output valves there are Solen 2.2uF x 250 caps here - again these are crap, I have used Audiophilers here as well. Take note that whatever caps you replace you will have to fit them inside a very small space.

 Changing out these two pairs of caps will make a huge difference to the sound. There are other caps I would like to replace but lack of space is a big problem.

 Looking at the photo on page 3 again, just to the right of and between the 2.2uF Caps are two resistors. As you can clearly see from the photo they are becoming discloured, Replace these with at least 5W resistors of the same value, I think it is 15K but check to make sure.

 To change the caps and resistors I have rec. you do not need to remove the PCB, just cut off the legs as close to the body of the caps and resistors as possible and solder to these existing legs - one day when you are satisfied with all the changes you have made is the time to remove the PCB and fit the new caps properly - you will here no difference in sound but it looks better.

 Another change I would rec. but which can be reversed easily is to 'shunt the pot' - all this means is that the Left and Right output wires from the Alps potentiometer are cut about 1inch from the PCB and you solder in a resistor ( anywhere between 47-68K) in series (that just means in line). Anything from 1/2W up is fine. choose a good quality one Tantalum, Shinko, Dale,Vishay.

 By doing this you are to all intent shunting or moving the pot out of the audio signal. You will lose some volume by doing this, which means you have to turn the volume control up some to acheive your normal listening level. This is so simple to do and if you don't like it, desolder the two resistors and resolder the two sections of wire back together

 Tube rolling - where mosfets are concerned this is a bummer as you need to wait at least 12 hours before changing a valve, that is unless you get off on replacing mosfets and all the work that entails - we have Art to thank for this info.

 My following comments are made for the Bada PH12 with the clear understanding that my model is no longer standard and is run using a power cord made from mil. spec s/plated copper wire (Rechem), a shunted pot (Dale resistor) and two sets of caps changed for Mundorf Audiophilers:

 Shuguang 6SN7 - I believe that if the Chinese really went to town on this valve they would have an a runaway winner on their hands. It is crystal clear and used as the driver valve with the right o/put valves will give the NOS a real fight.

 It has for me only one fault which maybe is not the same for all of those produced - it loses it when their is an uplift in the music or a singer raises his/her voice right at the top but in all other respects it is just superbly clear, all instruments are defined so well. I use it with NOS Sylvania WGTA.

 When I first used this combo I was shocked as it changed dramatically music I know so well. It also shows just how much detail is lost behind hash from many so called top class I/Cs - I use a special format for my I/Cs.

 I have tried other combos but they just present music as a kind of one dimensional field with all this background hash. At first the word 'stark' came to mind but it is'nt - it's what the recording engineer heard being recorded.

 For all those who think that all cables sound the same - please go away and play somewhere else. Use this combo to listen to your I/Cs - a good I/C wil not get in the way at all - percussion is so good, so clear, bass should be well defined and truly extended, piano is something special and electric guitar just comes out at you, like it does at a gig. This combo will show it like it is - good, bad or indifferent.

 If you bought the Bada from new you probably have these Shuguang valves and a pair of used Syl WGTAs should'nt cost a lot. Also try the Syls with an EH - which I know a lot of us have.

 It really is true with the Bada, that with a few judicious changes of components and the mix of valves is just right - it's wonderful.


----------



## pataburd

Black Stuart,

 Thank you very much for the excellent advice. I did replace the stock power cord with the MAC Source pc, to significantly postive effect. 

 As to the balance of your suggestions, my DIY skills are at a dearth here. Perhaps with some mentoring and further encouragment, I shall gather the replacement parts, print your instructions and Art's picture and--by the grace of God--get this project underway. If you have pictures of the specific mods you did on your unit, and which are described in your post, they would be of inestimable value as well.

 Right now I'm running 1x Toshiba 6SN7GTB w/2x RCA 6SN7GT black glass. The Proline 750 are really singing well as-is; it would be a treat to hear even better from the Bada!

 Thanks again!
 Patrick


----------



## Roam

The problem with the capacitor swaps and other mods listed to date is that they're the proverbial band-aid on a broken leg with multiple compound fractures. They don't fix anything except on a superficial surface level.

Bada PH12 schematics. First change, the 10k plate resistors (R13, R16)for the cascode gain stages should be upped to at least 33k, preferable around 40-50k. This will greatly linearize the tubes and significantly lower the distortion along with raising the gain. Also drops the current going through them, reducing heat and extending tube life.

 Next, the grid leak resistor on the 2nd stage of the cascode (R15) can be bumped up to around 300k, and the coupling capacitor between the cascode stages (C21) can be reduced to 0.22uF. Smaller caps sound better, and you have a better choice of caps at the smaller size. Teflon exotics are now in the mix if you want them.

 Now, remove the 2.2uF coupling cap (C22) between the cathode follower and MOSFET output stage and replace it with the 1uF unit you've removed in the previous step. Not as significant as the other improvements, but it will give slightly better sound.

 I'd consider all the above steps as mandatory in fixing the circuit from "incompetantly designed piece of crap" to something which meets minimal acceptable standards.

 The following step is optional, but it should also significantly improve the sound by further lowering the distortion and raising the linearity of the tubes. It also bumps up the gain a bit. Replace the cathode resistors on the cascode stage (R14, R17) with low brightness LEDs. Use 2 yellow LEDs in series to replace R14 and 3 red ones to replace R17.

 This is about as far as it can be pushed without hacking up the PCB and completely redoing the circuit. It will now sound much better than stock.


----------



## Black Stuart

Roam,
 so the Bada is an 'incompetently designed piece of crap' - strange that in a shoot-out it beat the likes of a Singlepower/Doge etc. so they must be -incompetently designed crap also. 

 To make these statements you must be one of the world's best amp designers - do let us know your real name and then we can check out your world beating designs.

 Signal tubes in general do not generate a lot of heat and you hav'nt even mentioned the huge amount of heat generated by the mosfets - why not. If you have real experience, why hav'nt you addressed this issue, or at least pointed out that excessive heat will change operating parameters and values and most importantly of all - seriously shorten the life of the caps.

 You also mentioned re-using a Solen cap why, these are cheap and nasty and sit on the sound, you drastically demand changing cap values which will change all the parameters and therefore the overall sound.

 You hav'nt actually listened to a Bada PH12 have you - all your sweeping statements are based on theory. There are so many instances where 'in theory' something should'nt work but does.

 All you've done is look at a schematic and make pronouncements. The suggestion of using LEDs may well be a good one but where are the suppliers and part nos.

 So let's have your real name and the amps you have designed and then we can all make prononcements too.


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Roam,
 so the Bada is an 'incompetently designed piece of crap' - strange that in a shoot-out it beat the likes of a Singlepower/Doge etc. so they must be -incompetently designed crap also._

 

I honestly don't have the time nor inclination to read through every single shoot-out and comparison along with trying to determine the viewpoints & biases of those writing the reviews. I'll just have to take your word that people have indeed rated the Bada PH12 over the other amps and that their opinions are honest and pure as fresh fallen snow.

 However, I do have the schematics for the Singlepower, Doge, and many other amps, and frankly they're nothing to write home about, and in the case of the Doge it's even more incompetant than the Bada.

  Quote:


 To make these statements you must be one of the world's best amp designers - do let us know your real name and then we can check out your world beating designs. 
 

It does not take a world class designer to see the faults in the Bada & other amps, all of the design flaws are basic level fundamental screw-ups which even a neophyte can recognize after reading the first few chapters of Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones. It's not rocket science, it's basic tube theory.

  Quote:


 Signal tubes in general do not generate a lot of heat and you hav'nt even mentioned the huge amount of heat generated by the mosfets - why not. If you have real experience, why hav'nt you addressed this issue, or at least pointed out that excessive heat will change operating parameters and values and most importantly of all - seriously shorten the life of the caps. 
 

MOSFETs sound best when they're run wide open, which of course creates a lot of heat. To me it's not a concern, there's only one of them per channel so if & when it fails, replacement is simple & cheap. If the life of the power supply capacitors is a concern, then simple use caps rated for 105°C.

  Quote:


 You also mentioned re-using a Solen cap why, these are cheap and nasty and sit on the sound, you drastically demand changing cap values which will change all the parameters and therefore the overall sound. 
 

The suggestion to re-use the Solen cap was made with interest towards keeping costs down while improving sound, a freebie if you will. If cost isn't a concern then chuck it and use whatever fancy capacitor pleases you.

 With regards to drastically changing cap values, I suggest familiarizing yourself with the simple formula F = 1/(2Pi * R * C) which determines the -3dB point of the bass roll-off. In the cascode stage, the -3dB point moves from 1.6Hz to 2.4Hz. This will have no effect on the circuit's performance, besides getting rid of the problems inherent with using an overly large cap, that being increased inductance, poorer overload recovery, greater leakage current, etc. The same applies to the coupling cap leading to the MOSFET, -3dB goes from about 1.5Hz to 3Hz, it's an inconsequential changes except for the superior properties of a smaller capacitor. This is all basic circuit design.

  Quote:


 You hav'nt actually listened to a Bada PH12 have you - all your sweeping statements are based on theory. There are so many instances where 'in theory' something should'nt work but does. 
 

Actually, I have. The fact that I didn't kick it across the room in disgust is a testament to how forgiving tubes are of epic design failures.

  Quote:


 All you've done is look at a schematic and make pronouncements. The suggestion of using LEDs may well be a good one but where are the suppliers and part nos. 
 

All you've done is make blind parts swaps with boutique brands in the hope that it'll improve the sound. You've failed to look at the circuit, understand the circuit, know what it does and what's going wrong, and then addressed the root cause of the problems.

  Quote:


 So let's have your real name and the amps you have designed and then we can all make prononcements too. 
 

One of my designs is in the DIY forum. As for my real name, past experience with insecure deranged audio nuts has led to a policy of keeping it to myself. My wife does not care to find another envelope in the mail containing rambling incoherent threats against me.


----------



## a-LeXx

Roam,

 you seem to know your stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One question, maybe you can help:
 Do you know the G&W t-2.6f amp? The schematics have been available on internet, but I seem not to be able to find them any longer.

 From what I remember from schematics, it's a 6dj8 SRPP with MOSFETs at output. Have no idea why the designer decided to use SRPP there, resulting in a gain of about 23-28 dB. No global feedback, if I remember correctly.

 My issue - to much gain for 40-Ohm HPs. What would be your idea to lower gain? Some local feedback? Global feedback? An attenuator at the output of SRPP to MOSFETs?

 Thanks,
 Alex


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I honestly don't have the time nor inclination to read through every single shoot-out and comparison along with trying to determine the viewpoints & biases of those writing the reviews. I'll just have to take your word that people have indeed rated the Bada PH12 over the other amps and that their opinions are honest and pure as fresh fallen snow.

 However, I do have the schematics for the Singlepower, Doge, and many other amps, and frankly they're nothing to write home about, and in the case of the Doge it's even more incompetant than the Bada.



 It does not take a world class designer to see the faults in the Bada & other amps, all of the design flaws are basic level fundamental screw-ups which even a neophyte can recognize after reading the first few chapters of Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones. It's not rocket science, it's basic tube theory.



 MOSFETs sound best when they're run wide open, which of course creates a lot of heat. To me it's not a concern, there's only one of them per channel so if & when it fails, replacement is simple & cheap. If the life of the power supply capacitors is a concern, then simple use caps rated for 105°C.



 The suggestion to re-use the Solen cap was made with interest towards keeping costs down while improving sound, a freebie if you will. If cost isn't a concern then chuck it and use whatever fancy capacitor pleases you.

 With regards to drastically changing cap values, I suggest familiarizing yourself with the simple formula F = 1/(2Pi * R * C) which determines the -3dB point of the bass roll-off. In the cascode stage, the -3dB point moves from 1.6Hz to 2.4Hz. This will have no effect on the circuit's performance, besides getting rid of the problems inherent with using an overly large cap, that being increased inductance, poorer overload recovery, greater leakage current, etc. The same applies to the coupling cap leading to the MOSFET, -3dB goes from about 1.5Hz to 3Hz, it's an inconsequential changes except for the superior properties of a smaller capacitor. This is all basic circuit design.



 Actually, I have. The fact that I didn't kick it across the room in disgust is a testament to how forgiving tubes are of epic design failures.



 All you've done is make blind parts swaps with boutique brands in the hope that it'll improve the sound. You've failed to look at the circuit, understand the circuit, know what it does and what's going wrong, and then addressed the root cause of the problems.



 One of my designs is in the DIY forum. As for my real name, past experience with insecure deranged audio nuts has led to a policy of keeping it to myself. My wife does not care to find another envelope in the mail containing rambling incoherent threats against me._

 

Sorry roam,but i agree with stuart on this one.Design doesn't tell you anything. it's all in the sound.

 It's all too often that on paper something impressed and just sound bad! Happenend before!

 I am the one that is turning the bada inside out and and when i am finished it's in another ballpark all together. Even the professional modders stated to me that they were pretty impressed by the sound and that says alot since they mod the most expensive amps on a daily bases with the most exotic components!

 The re-use of the solens tell me that you really don't know anything at all. Everybody with basic knowledge of caps will tell you that solens are BAD for signal caps. They are ok in the powersection but you need to get rid of the solens as fast as you can out of the signal path!

 I allready changed the solen couplers and the amp is in another league. You cannot even compare the two amp, the modded is like day and night. When i am finished, it's even like the earth and mars, so far are they apart!

 Not to mention tuberolling. The best NOS tubes take the bada to the next level, put on top new signal caps, coupler caps and a complete modded powersection and you'll know they are nothing alike!Even a noob knows not to look at the specs on paper! But to listen to an amp. The bada is one of the most natural sounding amps. And i've owned much, much more expensive amps!

 Again, people don't like the designs of say audio note in general, but they all love the sound and musicallity. Now what does that tell you?!Oh, and i did change the coupler cap for a smaller one.......I asked the professionals...they know what they are doing!Smaller caps combining, if you combine to bad caps to lift eachothers faults, you still gona have a bad cap. better use one superieur instead! or better, two superieur caps!

 You can like the sound of an map or not, but please don't tell me it's a piece of crap. I had much more expensive pieces of crap. Not always the car with the biggest engine wins the race!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 The bada won out of 20; this means it beats also more expensive american designs!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I honestly don't have the time nor inclination to read through every single shoot-out and comparison along with trying to determine the viewpoints & biases of those writing the reviews. I'll just have to take your word that people have indeed rated the Bada PH12 over the other amps and that their opinions are honest and pure as fresh fallen snow.

 However, I do have the schematics for the Singlepower, Doge, and many other amps, and frankly they're nothing to write home about, and in the case of the Doge it's even more incompetant than the Bada.



 It does not take a world class designer to see the faults in the Bada & other amps, all of the design flaws are basic level fundamental screw-ups which even a neophyte can recognize after reading the first few chapters of Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones. It's not rocket science, it's basic tube theory.



 MOSFETs sound best when they're run wide open, which of course creates a lot of heat. To me it's not a concern, there's only one of them per channel so if & when it fails, replacement is simple & cheap. If the life of the power supply capacitors is a concern, then simple use caps rated for 105°C.



 The suggestion to re-use the Solen cap was made with interest towards keeping costs down while improving sound, a freebie if you will. If cost isn't a concern then chuck it and use whatever fancy capacitor pleases you.

 With regards to drastically changing cap values, I suggest familiarizing yourself with the simple formula F = 1/(2Pi * R * C) which determines the -3dB point of the bass roll-off. In the cascode stage, the -3dB point moves from 1.6Hz to 2.4Hz. This will have no effect on the circuit's performance, besides getting rid of the problems inherent with using an overly large cap, that being increased inductance, poorer overload recovery, greater leakage current, etc. The same applies to the coupling cap leading to the MOSFET, -3dB goes from about 1.5Hz to 3Hz, it's an inconsequential changes except for the superior properties of a smaller capacitor. This is all basic circuit design.



 Actually, I have. The fact that I didn't kick it across the room in disgust is a testament to how forgiving tubes are of epic design failures.



 All you've done is make blind parts swaps with boutique brands in the hope that it'll improve the sound. You've failed to look at the circuit, understand the circuit, know what it does and what's going wrong, and then addressed the root cause of the problems.



 One of my designs is in the DIY forum. As for my real name, past experience with insecure deranged audio nuts has led to a policy of keeping it to myself. My wife does not care to find another envelope in the mail containing rambling incoherent threats against me._

 

one more thing; did it cross your mind that they "intentionally" screw up basic designs to make it sound the way it does?! Like some really high end cables do?!

 Thank god there's only one smart guy in town.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Again, i've heard alot, also amps of 50.000 and more but some don't sound that good at all! superieur design doesn't mean it's good at every aspect of sound, tonality is one of em and most fail, even very expensive amps!With the new couplers, the bada is much faster, has more drive and sounds much more detailed allready. With the other mod going on, it will take it even further! A world class high end amp should have correct tonality, speed, drive, stage, air and extended top and bottom with controlled bass! With the mods, the bada is creaping very close towards this ideal!The solens sound closed in with a very small soundstage!I urge everybody with a bada amp to get rid of the coupler and the signal solens as soon as possible and you'll know what the bada can do!(much more then roam is capable of thinking of!)


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a-LeXx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My issue - to much gain for 40-Ohm HPs. What would be your idea to lower gain? Some local feedback? Global feedback? An attenuator at the output of SRPP to MOSFETs?_

 

Without a full schematic I can't really suggest a proper fix. My suggestion for now would be to build an attenuator for the MOSFET outputs, the headphone plugs into the attenuator which then plugs into the amp.


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry roam,but i agree with stuart on this one.Design doesn't tell you anything. it's all in the sound._

 

If design tells you nothing, then you might as well throw parts together at random and hope for good sound. Oh, wait, that IS what some "designers" do in audio, nevermind...

  Quote:


 It's all too often that on paper something impressed and just sound bad! Happenend before! 
 

Of course it happens. The good designers will then go back and try to figure out why. Hacks, and the unwashed masses repeat the above saying as some sort of platitude to make up for their lack of knowledge.

  Quote:


 I am the one that is turning the bada inside out and and when i am finished it's in another ballpark all together. Even the professional modders stated to me that they were pretty impressed by the sound and that says alot since they mod the most expensive amps on a daily bases with the most exotic components! 
 

That's great. So you've turned it inside out and made it a million times better. Would you care to share your modifications with the rest of us? I've done a search of your posts and come up with some vague mentions of capacitor & power supply upgrades. If they're so wonderful, why don't you share them so the rest of us can benefit from it? Surely you wouldn't want to deprive the rest of us of good sound?

  Quote:


 Again, people don't like the designs of say audio note in general, but they all love the sound and musicallity. Now what does that tell you?! 
 

It tells me you are overly fond of sweeping generalizations.

  Quote:


 You can like the sound of an map or not, but please don't tell me it's a piece of crap. I had much more expensive pieces of crap. Not always the car with the biggest engine wins the race!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 The bada won out of 20; this means it beats also more expensive american designs! 
 

Fine, the amp's design resembles mung, happy? When an amp sounds like it has serious design errors, and upon examination of the schematic, turns out to actually have a half dozen design flaws, it is indeed mung. I have almost every 6SN7 known to man, the Bada, and yes, I have heard it, is in my opinion a waste of anything better than a GE or RCA 6SN7GTA. Sure it sounds a bit better with a Round Plate or Metal Base, but frankly you're just burning up good tubes for marginal gains.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If design tells you nothing, then you might as well throw parts together at random and hope for good sound. Oh, wait, that IS what some "designers" do in audio, nevermind...



 Of course it happens. The good designers will then go back and try to figure out why. Hacks, and the unwashed masses repeat the above saying as some sort of platitude to make up for their lack of knowledge.



 That's great. So you've turned it inside out and made it a million times better. Would you care to share your modifications with the rest of us? I've done a search of your posts and come up with some vague mentions of capacitor & power supply upgrades. If they're so wonderful, why don't you share them so the rest of us can benefit from it? Surely you wouldn't want to deprive the rest of us of good sound?



 It tells me you are overly fond of sweeping generalizations.



 Fine, the amp's design resembles mung, happy? When an amp sounds like it has serious design errors, and upon examination of the schematic, turns out to actually have a half dozen design flaws, it is indeed mung. I have almost every 6SN7 known to man, the Bada, and yes, I have heard it, is in my opinion a waste of anything better than a GE or RCA 6SN7GTA. Sure it sounds a bit better with a Round Plate or Metal Base, but frankly you're just burning up good tubes for marginal gains._

 

I thought you knew it all, why should i care to enlighten somebody that is obviously full of himself.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Quote:


 The good designers will then go back and try to figure out why. Hacks, and the unwashed masses repeat the above saying as some sort of platitude to make up for their lack of knowledge. 
 

That's why i take care of some problems of the bada and take it to the next level. And it's professionally done, so, i don't have the problem of not having "enough" knowledge. 

 Changing tubes have been anything but subtle. So, i am still not convinced you "really" listened to the bada.

 Just tell the people you don't like the bada and move on to another thread.

 He won out of 20, so there are obviously 19 even worse designs, also american more expensive designs. I see alot of work for you to "enlighten" people.


----------



## Black Stuart

Roam,
 the only one making 'sweeping generalisations' sorry that should be 'arrogant sweeping generalisations' is you pal.

 You ask Tourmaline to provide info on his mods which he will do and that's for sure - but when asked by myself to provide precise info and part nos. and supply cos. - you don't offer any kind of reply at all - do you understand what the word hypocrite means?

 Kicking an amp across the floor - was your expression, very revealing that.Your so absolutely certain of everything you say - also very revealing.

 Like Tourmaline said - don't thread crap just go away or grow up.


----------



## tbonner1

Thanks Stuart.

 Let's keep this thread on topic.

 I have the Bada rated very highly in my 21 home amp comparison. As time goes on I am more confident in my review. With many other components (along with cars and motorcycles I own) flaws become magnified as time goes by, but not with the Bada FWIW.


----------



## pftrvlr

I posted the schematic of Bada. 

 If I were to design the amp myself, I'd have done it differently. But, I have to admit that Bada sounds pretty good - I mean that Bada I have right now, which has no MOSFET in the output. It can only drive my DT880, not the 701. However I am listening to the Bada more than my other amp now.

 I guess I really the sound the 6sn7 tubes. I am now gethering parts to rebuild the Bada completely, using point to point wiring. Then I can experiment different component values, even diffetent circuit topologies.


----------



## Black Stuart

pftrvlr,
 that's what I call contributing to a thread in a really meaningful way.

 I too think that the 6SN7 valve is a damn fine valve, that different versions sound so different - lean or full is only part of it.

 Tourmaline has decided to go to town on the original Bada but I feel that your approach will be cheaper in parts costs but will have the costs of new/different chassis to bear as well.

 Hard wiring has one huge advantage over a PCB - if you want to tweek an amp, changing out caps or Rs - it is easy, try that with a PCB and it ai'nt enjoyable - track lifting, snapping solid core wires, the effect on components being constantly de and re-soldered. If your not into tweeking then maybe PCBs are fine.

 pftvlr - would you consider seperating the delicate signal section from the PSU, which is itself sheilded from mosfets. Tourmaline tells me that the mosfets used in the Bada are capable of pumping out 120W. I was thinking of a two section/box build.

 Have you also thought about creating a power amp, given the o/put of the mosfets. As a die hard valve/tube man, what so surprised me was the hybrid sound - which I personally cannot fault.

 Would there be some way to create a switchable o/put - one for power circuit and one for h/amp use.

 I would like to continue with these questions but have to visit the 'big city' today - will continue when I get back tonight.

 This thread now has the potential to really get creative - excellant


----------



## pftrvlr

Black Stuart,

 My goal is to re-use the transformer and case of Bada to create an all tube headphone amp. I will take the minimalist approach.

 The bada MOSFETs draw power from separate transformer winding and rectifier than the tube section. As it is running in class A mode, it is generatig lots of heat. The cooling fan helps to some extend, but I doubt 120W class A output per channel is possible from a single MOSGET.


----------



## Black Stuart

pftrvlr,
 there's no way to get 120W of class A from a single mosfet. I was looking to get about 15/20W per channel using maybe two per channel. But then there is the power consumption to think of as well.

 A great idea but is'nt the very small chassis part of the problem for the mosfets not being able to dissipate the heat they create.

 What kind of volume control will you use. I keep hearing conflicting views (as always) on digital volume controls. Some describe them as noisy or grainy but when I look at the S/N figures they are outstanding.

 Would you not remove the mains Tx from it's stupid place on top of the mosfets and drill out the top plate?

 Tourmaline has dumped the puny little fan fitted by Bada and is going to be using 2 Papst fans from a seperate 12V source. He has said that they are nearly silent and far far more effective than the original.

 It is'nt only the design of an amp that is important but also it's layout - that is my big criticism of the Bada, they knew the mosfets would generate an awful lot of heat but stuck them inside a traditional chassis. I believe that with hybrid amps need a different style/shape of chassis - indeed why not keep the signal section 'virtually' seperate from the PSU/output.


----------



## pftrvlr

The stock volume pot is pretty decent, I am planning to keep it.

 My DAC has digital volume control. I don't hear much noise, though I have really compare it to a pot.


----------



## Black Stuart

pftrvlr,
 your handle is a difficult one, do you have an abbreviation which I could use?

 The Alps blue will colour the sound in a warm way - why not shunt it. Try resistors of your choice until you find what you like. You will have to turn the volume control a little more but that's all.

 As you will not be using the mosfets when you hardwire, will you be using o/put Txs and won't they need to be very good quality so as not to degrade the sound.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pftrvlr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I posted the schematic of Bada. 

 If I were to design the amp myself, I'd have done it differently. But, I have to admit that Bada sounds pretty good - I mean that Bada I have right now, which has no MOSFET in the output. It can only drive my DT880, not the 701. However I am listening to the Bada more than my other amp now.

 I guess I really the sound the 6sn7 tubes. I am now gethering parts to rebuild the Bada completely, using point to point wiring. Then I can experiment different component values, even diffetent circuit topologies._

 

The problem with the tube amp is that the 6sn7 is only capable of low wattage! Hence the problem to drive another headphone. That's one of the reasons the 6sn7 is used as a driver for other tubes, say 300b; it suppose to be one of the best 300b driver tubes.

 My modding is done! I got it back, working like a dream, constructed active cooling myself and it is totally cool tot the touch after 3 hours of play!

 This way you ensure that the mosfets are working most efficient(not too hot) and a long tube life!

 Pictures will be posted soon!

 I can assure you, picture extravaganza!( stuart had the premiere).


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pftrvlr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock volume pot is pretty decent, I am planning to keep it.

 My DAC has digital volume control. I don't hear much noise, though I have really compare it to a pot._

 


 I use a custom made linear pot, expensive, yes, but it's like the pot isn't even there in the signal path. I use alot of custom made components in the modded bada!

 As i said before, the pics will be posted this week.


----------



## pataburd

The Bada lost its right channel yesterday, but it was not due to a premature tube roll. (Could it have been due to a headphone change while powered up, w/volume up?) The right channel does not pass music, but will emit bursts of static-y sound when the volume level is increased. 

 (1) Do the symptoms described indicate a blown MosFET? 
 (2) If so, where can I buy a replacement or two?
 (3) Can a mod be implemented to make the Bada less susceptible to this sort of thing.
 (4) What sorts of things can blow a MosFET, besides premature tube-rolling?
 (4) Does anyone out there want to replace the blown MosFET and possibly do some mods to my Bada? : )

 Help!


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Bada lost its right channel yesterday, but it was not due to a premature tube roll. (Could it have been due to a headphone change while powered up, w/volume up?) The right channel does not pass music, but will emit bursts of static-y sound when the volume level is increased. 

 (1) Do the symptoms described indicate a blown MosFET? 
 (2) If so, where can I buy a replacement or two?
 (3) Can a mod be implemented to make the Bada less susceptible to this sort of thing.
 (4) What sorts of things can blow a MosFET, besides premature tube-rolling?
 (4) Does anyone out there want to replace the blown MosFET and possibly do some mods to my Bada? : )

 Help!_

 

Did you get my PM?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Bada lost its right channel yesterday, but it was not due to a premature tube roll. (Could it have been due to a headphone change while powered up, w/volume up?) The right channel does not pass music, but will emit bursts of static-y sound when the volume level is increased. 

 (1) Do the symptoms described indicate a blown MosFET? 
 (2) If so, where can I buy a replacement or two?
 (3) Can a mod be implemented to make the Bada less susceptible to this sort of thing.
 (4) What sorts of things can blow a MosFET, besides premature tube-rolling?
 (4) Does anyone out there want to replace the blown MosFET and possibly do some mods to my Bada? : )

 Help!_

 

I would say problems with your tube and replace that tube!

 If a mosfet is blown, you won't hear anything.

 No, you cannot blow up the bada by changing or pulling out the headphone jack. The only thing that would blow up your mosfets would be to pull out the tubes out of the sockets!

 i tried it both; pulling out the headphone jack and plugging it in again and to turn the bada on and off a few times. Nothing happened, as the guys told me who modded the bada, the only thing that would blow up the fets would be to pull out the tubes while playing or within half an hour. I change tubes after half an hour and never blew up the fets!



 Distortion can blow a mosfet on high volume. Tubes will survive, but the fets will immediatly blow. Did you try out high volumes on your bada?!


----------



## pataburd

Thanks, Tour. Will try. It must be a power tube, since swapping the drivers made no change. I would like to get my Bada "Tour-modded." Is that a possibility? I really like the Bada, and am willing to invest some money into making it function and sound even better! : ) Thanks again!

 p.s., I did not push the Bada to high volume.


----------



## pataburd

Tour: 

 It's a no-go. I completely swapped out all three tubes and am getting the same crackly/broken up signal from the right channel. Other sources tell me that a blown/malfunctioning MOSFET can indeed manifest these symptoms.

 Thanks again. PAB


----------



## pataburd

Black Stuart:

 Will you please check my parts list below? It is based on information given in your previous posts: 

 (a) 2x 1uF Mundorf/Dynamicap/Solen teflon @ C20 and C21
 (b) 2x 2.2uF Mundorf/ERSE @ C22 and C???
 (c) 1x 15k/5w Vishay/Dale @ R18 and R???
 (d) 2x 15k/1w for shunting the potentiometer.

 The question marks mean that your text indicated two capacitors or two resistors, but I only found one on the schematic. Finally, what voltages are required for the capacitors? When I search for parts, the capacitors are also designated by voltage, in addition to capacitance. 

 And could you, or anyone else, recommend a good supplier--one place to buy--for all of these items?

 Thanks!
 PatABurd


----------



## pataburd

Stuart,
 Please check my parts list. Your recommended mods will be done when the (right) Toshiba mosfet (@$6.80) is replaced.


 (a) 2x 1uF/250v capacitor, Mundorf Mcap ZN @ $12.67USD
 (b) 2x 2.2uF/250v capacitor, Mundorf Mcap ZN @ $19.40USD

 (c) 2x 5W/15kOhm resistor, Mills MRA-5 @ $3.95USD
 (d) 2x 0.6W/49.9kOhm resistor (to shunt pot.), Vishay S102 @ $11.50.

 (a) and (b) available at HiFi Collective (UK).
 (c) and (d) available at Michael Percy Audio (USA).

 TOTAL Cost of Parts: $95.04 ($98.84 including mosfet).

 If anybody knows of a sole, stateside source for all the items, and/or better prices, please advise.

 Also, I wanted to ask if it's advisable to replace both L & R mosfets, instead of only the blown right mosfet.

 Thanks,
 PatABurd


----------



## philodox

I think that parts connexion sells Mills, Vishay and Mundorf - they are also a head-fi sponsor. They also have a wide variety of other film caps and resistors. The Kiwame resistors are really nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT: They also have those crazy 50W power resistors [Mills-MRC50] in that value.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that parts connexion sells Mills, Vishay and Mundorf - they are also a head-fi sponsor. They also have a wide variety of other film caps and resistors. The Kiwame resistors are really nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: They also have those crazy 50W power resistors [Mills-MRC50] in that value. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mills are like a wire, not in the signal path! very good resistors. I used audio note tantalum resistors on that exact spot.


----------



## philodox

Have you tried the Kiwames? Audio note stuff always seems a little more pricey than it should be, but people do seem to like it.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mills are like a wire, not in the signal path! very good resistors. I used audio note tantalum resistors on that exact spot._

 

I'm ordering Tantalums instead of the Vishays for the shunt. I've read that the S102 can sound hard in some applications.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the Kiwames? Audio note stuff always seems a little more pricey than it should be, but people do seem to like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Unlike the designs they make, their selection of components IS actually first class. Mills and other good resistors are about that pricepoint also.


----------



## pataburd

Phiodox, thanks for the PCX suggestion! Unfortunately, Parts Connection is out of the Mundorf-1uF/250v. Can someone suggest a viable alternative (e.g. Dynamicap)? Also, do I have any leaway with the DC voltage specification (other than 250v)? None of the other cap brands carried by PCX list a 1uF/250v item. 

 Otherwise, I'll have to order overseas (UK), which I'd rather avoid if at all possible.


----------



## pataburd

I just want to double-check: a 1uF/425v capacitor will work in an application specified by 1uF/250v, correct? I am thinking about getting 2x Dynamicap 1uF/425v or 2x Mundorf M-cap Supreme 1uF/800v in lieu of the M-cap ZN 1uF/250v--space permitting. I haven't opened up the unit yet, and I suppose I should, to check the available space inside where the replacement capacitors are to go.


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 I did'nt ignore your email but was in France and a French keyboard is way different to either an English or Spanish one. I did post a reply yesterday but it disappeared into the ether.

 Don't buy 1uF caps use .47uF and think seriously of using Dynamicap, they are rated closely behind Vcaps. Using a cap with a higher voltage will cause no problems at all, using a cap with a higher or lower rating will alter the sound as per my rec. above.

 I'd be wary of using the Vishay for the shunt mod - you might find it has a glassy presentation. Many have found that a simple metal film resistor works very well with the Alps Blue. At the moment I'm using a close tolerance Welwyn.

 The Mills is a good choice.

 Don't forget to buy or make your own power cord - this is'nt a fault with the Bada but with nearly all commercially made equipment.

 Having now used the two Papst fans under the Bada, I can say without qualification that this is a must do thing. I think Tourmaline is the one to quote all the specifics. He and I use a variable Tx and a simple on/off switch. 

 These Papst fans really do get rid of the very high temps. found inside the Bada and have a very positive effect on the sound. You only have to remove the bottom plate and cut the wires to the totally in-effective and noisy fan fitted into the bottom plate. You will need to effect clearance of some 6cm for the fans to operate. I shall lift the mains Tx off the top plate and drill holes around the 6SN7s and use tube coolers. I intend to cut out 'air channels along the sides - this will cause the air to disperse faster.

 I think that too many holes drilled into the top plate will creat 'air turbulence' and slow down the dissipation ratio.

 So good is this mod that I intend to use the two Papst fans under my valve amps as well. Cost should only be around $70 but absolutely worth every penny.


----------



## minivan

has any1 had experience of ordering their bada ph12 from this hk website:
http://vocativeaudio.com/
 wonder how good their customer service is. i email them and they response very quick.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pataburd,
 I did'nt ignore your email but was in France and a French keyboard is way different to either an English or Spanish one. I did post a reply yesterday but it disappeared into the ether.

 Don't buy 1uF caps use .47uF and think seriously of using Dynamicap, they are rated closely behind Vcaps. Using a cap with a higher voltage will cause no problems at all, using a cap with a higher or lower rating will alter the sound as per my rec. above.

 I'd be wary of using the Vishay for the shunt mod - you might find it has a glassy presentation. Many have found that a simple metal film resistor works very well with the Alps Blue. At the moment I'm using a close tolerance Welwyn.

 The Mills is a good choice.

 Don't forget to buy or make your own power cord - this is'nt a fault with the Bada but with nearly all commercially made equipment.

 Having now used the two Papst fans under the Bada, I can say without qualification that this is a must do thing. I think Tourmaline is the one to quote all the specifics. He and I use a variable Tx and a simple on/off switch. 

 These Papst fans really do get rid of the very high temps. found inside the Bada and have a very positive effect on the sound. You only have to remove the bottom plate and cut the wires to the totally in-effective and noisy fan fitted into the bottom plate. You will need to effect clearance of some 6cm for the fans to operate. I shall lift the mains Tx off the top plate and drill holes around the 6SN7s and use tube coolers. I intend to cut out 'air channels along the sides - this will cause the air to disperse faster.

 I think that too many holes drilled into the top plate will creat 'air turbulence' and slow down the dissipation ratio.

 So good is this mod that I intend to use the two Papst fans under my valve amps as well. Cost should only be around $70 but absolutely worth every penny._

 


 Stuart,
 I very stupidly, prior to opening the Bada and prior to receiving your post, ordered Mundorf Supreme 1uF/425v and 2.2uF/600v capacitors. These capacitors are WAY TOO BIG!!! I don't think there is any way to get these caps onto the board at their intended sites. I am dearly hoping that PartsConnexion will allow me to exchange the Mundorfs.

 Please let me know which 0.47 Dynamicaps (to replace the 1uF Solens) you recommend, and which caps you replaced the 2.2uF with. Could I use the 1uF Mundorf Supremes here (it looks like there might be just enough space)? Have you done anything with the other 1uF Solens (behind the 2.2uF)? I'm as dumb as a fencepost here.

 Frustrating!! But a lesson learned (I hope). It looks like at least another week for proper replacement parts.

 PatABurd


----------



## pataburd

Stuart,
 Will return Mundorfs to PCX and pay 15% restocking fee. For replacements, I intend to order 2x Dynamicap 0.47uF/425v (0.46in.x1.55in.) in lieu of the Solen 1uF/250v, and 2x Dynamicap 1uF/425v (0.70in.x1.55in.) in lieu of the Solen 2.2uF/250v. These Dynamicaps should fit the tight spaces. 

 I really wanted to give the Mundorf Silver/Oil a try--some sites rate them better than Dynamicaps, but there is nowhere near the room that these things require.

 PatABurd


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 do not use 1uF caps in place of 2.2uF you will lose most of your bass response.

 The Dynamicaps are good and I intend to try them as well, having used them in a valve h/amp.

 Perhaps this is a good time to put an idea of mine onto this thread.

 I don't like PCBs for many good reasons. The first is that, when you want to tweak a piece of equipment until it produces the sound that you as an individual are happy with (nobody else's opinion counts here) it invariably means trying different caps/resistors etc. 

 Here's the problem - track lifting and if you use solid core wire which I do, with repeatedly taking out and replacing PCBs these can break as well.

 The Bada is a near perfect example of what I mean. When trying out different caps or resistors - do not remove the PCB, just cut the legs of caps or resistors about halfway - trim the legs of the new components and solder to the original components legs. Always try to use some kind of heatsink (a pair of pliers or crocodile clip just below the solder point. This is because if the heat extends down to the original PCB solder joint, this joint could be ruined - and then you will have to remove the PCB after all - and with the Bada that's a lot of unnec. work.

 Tourmaline has gone the whole hog and removed virtually all the Solen caps except for 6 in the PSU section. Many may well find that they don't need to go that far.

 To meaningfuly change this amp for the better, it is only nec. to change out 4 signal path caps, the 2 x 15K resistors, simply because they are under-rated and try 'shunting the pot'.

 I would suggest Pataburd that it would be far cheaper to try the very good Mundorf Audiophiler caps for the 0.47uF which are cheap, just to see if you like the now altered sound, or indeed use any reasonable 0.47uF cap you may have to hand.

 Sometimes you can spend a lot of money on exotic components but if the 'mix' is'nt right it can sound awful. Synergy is the right word to use here.

 Now here's the thing - when and only when you are happy with the sound and all the changes you have made should you remove the PCB and solder the connections to the PCB.

 I have personally changed all the signal wiring inside the Bada (the return wires can be left alone) this is not a hard job and new wiring can be routed along the side panels rather than over the components. It is not nec. to re-use the chunky red sheathing (it looks good but is entirely inneffective).

 If you decide to do this mod - think about using the same wire as you use in your I/Cs, there is something right about the sound when you use the one type of wire from source to and including your h/amp. There is no need to use sheilding with this internal wire, neither I, not Tourmaline have had any hum issues with our Badas'.


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 keep the 1uF Dynamicaps and buy two 0.47uF - try both and see which you like.

 For the 2.2uF - this may not be so much of a problem IF you decide to use fan cooling, which as you know, both I and Tourmaline rec. strongly. I have removed the bottom plate entirely snipping the wires of the useless little fan provided by Bada. This now allows me to use bigger (much bigger) caps if I want. Tourmaline has used Vcap 2.7uF and they work very well he assures me, don't go down to 1uF that was a silly rec. from someone who thankfully has not re-appeared.

 Years ago I bought quite a lot of big and I do mean big (11cmL x 6.5cmW x 3cmD) Russian military PIOs. When I rooted them out I found that they were 4uF, I was going to use them in PSU sections.

 There undoubtedly is something about size in signal path caps that equates to depth and quality of bass response. The Audiophilers from Mundorf are completely overlooked by their expensive big brothers but should'nt be, however I may try to track down some 2-2.5uF Russian PIOs. They won't be much smaller than the 4uF version so will have to sit outside the chassis on flying leads.


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 Tube rolling - where mosfets are concerned this is a bummer as you need to wait at least 12 hours before changing a valve, that is unless you get off on replacing mosfets and all the work that entails - we have Art to thank for this info.


 Shuguang 6SN7 - I believe that if the Chinese really went to town on this valve they would have an a runaway winner on their hands. It is crystal clear and used as the driver valve with the right o/put valves will give the NOS a real fight.

 It has for me only one fault which maybe is not the same for all of those produced - it loses it when their is an uplift in the music or a singer raises his/her voice right at the top but in all other respects it is just superbly clear, all instruments are defined so well. I use it with NOS Sylvania WGTA.

 When I first used this combo I was shocked as it changed dramatically music I know so well. It also shows just how much detail is lost behind hash from many so called top class I/Cs - I use a special format for my I/Cs.

 I have tried other combos but they just present music as a kind of one dimensional field with all this background hash. At first the word 'stark' came to mind but it is'nt - it's what the recording engineer heard being recorded.

 For all those who think that all cables sound the same - please go away and play somewhere else. Use this combo to listen to your I/Cs - a good I/C wil not get in the way at all - percussion is so good, so clear, bass should be well defined and truly extended, piano is something special and electric guitar just comes out at you, like it does at a gig. This combo will show it like it is - good, bad or indifferent.

 If you bought the Bada from new you probably have these Shuguang valves and a pair of used Syl WGTAs should'nt cost a lot. Also try the Syls with an EH - which I know a lot of us have.
_

 

I don't change tubes until the Bada 12 has been off for 24 consecutive hours or more - prevents mosfet problems.

 The Chinese Shuagang GT (6H8C) is a high resolution tube that yields excellent tone edge definition for detail and sharp, solid 3-D imaging in empty space, and excellent tone body resolution (for revealing subtle tone textures, timbral nuances and natural timbre). It can show the warts in your system unless all components are top class, and tends to be lean unless combined with another tube to add slight richness.

 I use the Chinese GT in my 6SN7 preamp which combines great with a Sylvania 5Z4 rectifier. I get great clarity and transparency ("what the recording engineer heard" as Black Stuart describes it).

 Here are my favorite combos in the Bada 12, with the Chinese GT:

 Chinese Shuguang GT in front and two Sylvania GTA or WGTA - per Black Stuart's suggestions

 Electro Harmonix Gold with two Chinese in back

 Ken Rad GT (staggered plates not parallel plates) with two Chinese Shuguang in back - per tbonner1's suggestions

 Sylvania WGT with two Chinese Shuguang in back


 I use the impedance switch on the lowest impedance setting - in both the Bada 12 and the Doge 6210 - even with the Sennheiser HPs. The HD600 with Cardas cable is a truly remarkable headphone.

 Patabud found a good source of K1529 mosfets and I can send them out (with two 15V diodes to wire in for some protection) at my cost - about $9 to ship in the USA which include paypal and shipping fees.


----------



## Black Stuart

Art,
 a good post and solid reccomendations.

 I had never thought to use the low impedance setting, I'll give it a try.

 Because both Tourmaline and I are sold on the fan cooling - I will keep banging on about it. Art has thought of another way to cool the Bada and he should present it on this thread.

 For better sound and longevity of the Bada PH12 - active cooling is very nec. and this can also be used for anyone who has power amps, either valve or mosfet.


----------



## Gradofan2

What does the GT signify? Does that stand for Groove Tubes?

 Where do you get these tubes?


----------



## bluesaint

Black Stuart, got a little lost trying to comprehend all 8 pages of this thread, but aside from the obvious cooling mods and ps cord which are deemed necessary, what are the minimalist approach to improve the ph12 which you've personally done?

 I'll be using SA5k with my ph-12.


----------



## Black Stuart

gradofan2,
 GT does'nt = Groove Tubes but I could be wrong, I'm sure Art will jump in to clarify. Apparently there is a new batch or a mark11 of the Shuguang, whether this is true or just someone shilling to up sales I can't say but at the price it has to be tried and like all other 6SN7s that I know of should only be used in a combo with other types. Use 3 of them and you definately won't like the sound - far too hard and brittle, try the combos Art has suggested and you will see what we are on about.

 bluesaint - like I have said change out the 2 x 1uF caps, these are immediately in front of the two o/put valves and the value is clearly marked on the PCB. Try using a 0.47uF cap here it must have a minimum rating of 250V - you should hear an improvement in sonics.

 Change out the 2.2uF caps behind the o/put valves. Tourmaline has used expensive 2.7uF caps here and is very happy with the result - do not frop the value here as bass response will be lost.

 I have used the inexpensive Mundorf Audiophiler caps and they are very good for the money. I shall change the 1uF caps for Dynamicaps which are excellant but that's my taste and maybe not yours. I'm going to try some Russian military 2.2uF PIOs but I'm not sure I'm into PIOs anymore.What is absolutely true is that the Solens are very grey sounding and any reasonable caps are going to sound better than these.

 Signal wiring - it's solid core copper that Bada has used and again this can be changed and easily. Personally I have found silver/plated copper to be best but for those who like copper why not try some of Chimera Labs CCC stuff - it's 24AWG, which is a good size of wire to use.

 Lastly there are two 15K resistors sing between the o/put valves these should be changed for reliablity and should be at least 5W - Mills would be a good choice.

 These 4 caps and 2 resistor changes will give you a vastly improved h/amp. Indeed TBonner rated the standard Bada as a giant killer, I say these simple changes coupled with making/buying a better power cord and definately fan cooling leave the stock Bada way behind.

 'Shunting the pot' will give an even better detail response and is so simple to do and reverse if you don't like it - simple metal film Rs work well with an Alps Blue, I am using a Welwyn C55 at the moment but it is so simple to change these resistors that you can try what you like with ease.

 Just remember to keep the existing cap and resistor legs in place until you are happy with the sound you have and then remove the PCB and do the thing properly though I have to say that if these are the only changes you make I doubt if you wil hear any difference in quality for a lot of work. It is worthwhile if you intend to increase the flow of fans by slotting or drilling holes in the top and side plates.

 Remember always leave work on any amp for some time after you have played it as to accidentally touch a PSU cap can result in a nasty electrical WACK - work safe/work smart.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't change tubes until the Bada 12 has been off for 24 consecutive hours or more - prevents mosfet problems.

 The Chinese Shuagang GT (6H8C) is a high resolution tube that yields excellent tone edge definition for detail and sharp, solid 3-D imaging in empty space, and excellent tone body resolution (for revealing subtle tone textures, timbral nuances and natural timbre). It can show the warts in your system unless all components are top class, and tends to be lean unless combined with another tube to add slight richness.

 I use the Chinese GT in my 6SN7 preamp which combines great with a Sylvania 5Z4 rectifier. I get great clarity and transparency ("what the recording engineer heard" as Black Stuart describes it).

 Here are my favorite combos in the Bada 12, with the Chinese GT:

 Chinese Shuguang GT in front and two Sylvania GTA or WGTA - per Black Stuart's suggestions

 Electro Harmonix Gold with two Chinese in back

 Ken Rad GT (staggered plates not parallel plates) with two Chinese Shuguang in back - per tbonner1's suggestions

 Sylvania WGT with two Chinese Shuguang in back


 I use the impedance switch on the lowest impedance setting - in both the Bada 12 and the Doge 6210 - even with the Sennheiser HPs. The HD600 with Cardas cable is a truly remarkable headphone.

 Patabud found a good source of K1529 mosfets and I can send them out (with two 15V diodes to wire in for some protection) at my cost - about $9 to ship in the USA which include paypal and shipping fees._

 

I only wait half an hour if i want to change tubes. I've never had any tube problems or mosfet problems. I leave the sennheiser cable in the headphone plug, so the headphone might drain the caps.

 Half an hour is all it takes.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gradofan2,
 GT does'nt = Groove Tubes but I could be wrong, I'm sure Art will jump in to clarify. Apparently there is a new batch or a mark11 of the Shuguang, whether this is true or just someone shilling to up sales I can't say but at the price it has to be tried and like all other 6SN7s that I know of should only be used in a combo with other types. Use 3 of them and you definately won't like the sound - far too hard and brittle, try the combos Art has suggested and you will see what we are on about.

 bluesaint - like I have said change out the 2 x 1uF caps, these are immediately in front of the two o/put valves and the value is clearly marked on the PCB. Try using a 0.47uF cap here it must have a minimum rating of 250V - you should hear an improvement in sonics.

 Change out the 2.2uF caps behind the o/put valves. Tourmaline has used expensive 2.7uF caps here and is very happy with the result - do not frop the value here as bass response will be lost.

 I have used the inexpensive Mundorf Audiophiler caps and they are very good for the money. I shall change the 1uF caps for Dynamicaps which are excellant but that's my taste and maybe not yours. I'm going to try some Russian military 2.2uF PIOs but I'm not sure I'm into PIOs anymore.What is absolutely true is that the Solens are very grey sounding and any reasonable caps are going to sound better than these.

 Signal wiring - it's solid core copper that Bada has used and again this can be changed and easily. Personally I have found silver/plated copper to be best but for those who like copper why not try some of Chimera Labs CCC stuff - it's 24AWG, which is a good size of wire to use.

 Lastly there are two 15K resistors sing between the o/put valves these should be changed for reliablity and should be at least 5W - Mills would be a good choice.

 These 4 caps and 2 resistor changes will give you a vastly improved h/amp. Indeed TBonner rated the standard Bada as a giant killer, I say these simple changes coupled with making/buying a better power cord and definately fan cooling leave the stock Bada way behind.

 'Shunting the pot' will give an even better detail response and is so simple to do and reverse if you don't like it - simple metal film Rs work well with an Alps Blue, I am using a Welwyn C55 at the moment but it is so simple to change these resistors that you can try what you like with ease.

 Just remember to keep the existing cap and resistor legs in place until you are happy with the sound you have and then remove the PCB and do the thing properly though I have to say that if these are the only changes you make I doubt if you wil hear any difference in quality for a lot of work. It is worthwhile if you intend to increase the flow of fans by slotting or drilling holes in the top and side plates.

 Remember always leave work on any amp for some time after you have played it as to accidentally touch a PSU cap can result in a nasty electrical WACK - work safe/work smart._

 

If the standard bada is a giant killer, then what should our modded bada's be Stuart?! It was like night and day. Granted, i did go the whole 18 holes and changed everyhting that could be changed in the bada for high end materials. Lots of money but very worth while. It took me to the seat in the theatre or studio, being there myself, that's how big the live feeling is right now.

 The most important are the caps near the tubes, the 2.2ufarad caps near the mosfets and the caps besides the 2.2ufard caps. Those are all in the signal path.

 I used high end signal wiring specifically designed for amp wiring but i KNOW Stuart's cable is very good as well.

 Look in the totally modded the bada thread to read was done to it.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bluesaint* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black Stuart, got a little lost trying to comprehend all 8 pages of this thread, but aside from the obvious cooling mods and ps cord which are deemed necessary, what are the minimalist approach to improve the ph12 which you've personally done?

 I'll be using SA5k with my ph-12._

 

read here what was done to my bada.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250682


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stuart,
 Will return Mundorfs to PCX and pay 15% restocking fee. For replacements, I intend to order 2x Dynamicap 0.47uF/425v (0.46in.x1.55in.) in lieu of the Solen 1uF/250v, and 2x Dynamicap 1uF/425v (0.70in.x1.55in.) in lieu of the Solen 2.2uF/250v. These Dynamicaps should fit the tight spaces. 

 I really wanted to give the Mundorf Silver/Oil a try--some sites rate them better than Dynamicaps, but there is nowhere near the room that these things require.

 PatABurd_

 

Look here if you wanna know what was done to my bada!
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250682

 If you like, i can draw on the schematics of the bada where exactly you need to change the caps or resistors.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or on a picture of the bada interior to point out the caps and resistors!

 That's why i ordered the venhaus oils! They fit perfectly in that spot and are regarded highest of the oils around. They are a bit on the expensive side though But wirth the money. It seems that the mundorf silver in oils are better then the silver/gold ones!

 I took all high end grade materials, Stuart is not far behind but he said he lacked some detail and wants to change the 2.2 caps for better ones. I told him the cheap mundorfs wouldn't be that good in that position but now he heard, he wants to change them for better ones.

 By the way stuart, i didn't leave the solens in the powersection but these caps are actually Rubicon caps. In that position, they are actually very good.
 Rubicon is the same manufacturer as black gate, if i am not mistaken. But they discontinued the black gate caps, to bad since these are one of the best around. Especially the red NX type of black gate caps and they have the lowest noise floor of any cap around, they are very clean! And i got loads of em in there. As you can imagine, the bada became twice as efficient as it was before, it's so clean and powerfull.

 In powersection solens are really good, but not in the signal path.


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the standard bada is a giant killer, then what should our modded bada's be Stuart?! It was like night and day. Granted, i did go the whole 18 holes and changed everyhting that could be changed in the bada for high end materials. Lots of money but very worth while. It took me to the seat in the theatre or studio, being there myself, that's how big the live feeling is right now.

 The most important are the caps near the tubes, the 2.2ufarad caps near the mosfets and the caps besides the 2.2ufard caps. Those are all in the signal path.

 I used high end signal wiring specifically designed for amp wiring but i KNOW Stuart's cable is very good as well.

 Look in the totally modded the bada thread to read was done to it._

 

Good points about the most important mods - caps in signal path. However my headphone system is now so perfect, with the HD600/Cardas, Bada 12, and Satrun, I am really afraid that modding will not be cost effective at all. 

 GT designation (of the 6SN7 type) tube does not mean Groove Tube as Black Stuart points out.

 Here are some points :

 Venting is not normally needed though I drilled some holes on the bottom plate (along the front) to allow air uptake into the inside of the amp at the front, and then elevate the rear by an inch or so (with objects like a paperback book placed under the rear feet) and run it that way. The fan it has works fine and comes on for 5 to 10 minutes after an hour of use.

 The heat comes from the mosfets primarily and dissipates through the chasis.

 The best way to better cool the inside parts is to drill the hoels as I did above, and mount the dome transformer slightly up from the chasis leaving air gaps, to allow air to escape around the bottom of the dome.

 Unscrew the big screw inside (at the back edge of the mainboard, between the mosfets) that goes up into the transformer but don't take this screw out. Separate the dome from the chasis with three spacers (wood, plastic, cardborad) about 1/4 " thick, placed at the edge of the dome edges between the dome and the chasis. Then tighten the screw inside to wedge the slightly elevated dome against the spacers to leave an empty space around the dome for air to esape.

 Should work - never done it.


 [size=medium]Never remove a tube until it has been of for 24 hours or more.

 Always use the impedance switch down on low - regardless of headphones used.[/size]


 Tubes:

 My favorite tube combos:

 Suggested to me many months ago by tbonner1: Two Chinese in back with one Ken Rad GT (parallel plates staggered as offset only - not in line plates that are parallel but line up square on both ends) in front.

 or

 Suggested by Black Stuart: Two Sylvania WGTA or GTA (sound identical in either version) in back with one Chinese 6H8P (6SN7) in front


 Other great combos are on page 5 (and later) on this thread but the two above are truly outstanding - very high resolution, great and sharp 3-D imaging with empty air separation between instruments, great tone body resolution of tone textures revealing subtle nuances in timbre, natural and realistic timbre, etc.

 If you use the Bada 12, Sennheiser HD 600 with Cardas cable, and the above tube combo, and do not get great sound, then you need a better CD , or better source, or a better IC.

 Problems:

 Many problems with the Bada 12 are due to tube pin contact.

 I recently used a tube in the right rear position that had no sound in the right channel. I thought it must be a mosfet out.

 While the system was playing on low volume, I tilted the tube in different directions *without pulling the tube out of the amp* and got sound in both channels, but then got hum. Tilted again and got sound and no hum, but sometines heard a pop then a crackle or slight static noises, etc. Finally found a position that was trouble free. Plan to clean and treat the tube socket and tube pins. Ned some de-ox and Craig Gold treatment.


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tbonner1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Stuart.

 Let's keep this thread on topic.

 I have the Bada rated very highly in my 21 home amp comparison. As time goes on I am more confident in my review. With many other components (along with cars and motorcycles I own) flaws become magnified as time goes by, but not with the Bada FWIW._

 

I have owned many of the amps covered on your truly excellent review and my evaluation and rank of them is exactly the same as yours.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...29933HEADPHONE

 I am still looking for an amp that is better than the Bada 12 and Doge 6210.


----------



## Black Stuart

Art,
 if you don't change those signal path caps that Tourmaline and I have done, you will be mising out on a huge step-up in quality. If you use the method I have done ie. leave the legs of the Solen caps to solder to - you can always replace them if you don't like the changed sonics.

 I'm going to try the Russian 2.2uF K-75 series PIOs in place of the Mundorf Audiophilers - they may not be better but will almost certainly have a different sound.

 I don't intend to to change the Audiophiler .47uF caps I use instead of the Solen 1uFs but will add Russian Teflon 0.022uF to these - it should give a much clearer top end (not that it's bad at the moment).

 Trouble is with using both these caps is room, as I use fan cooling permanently now, with no bottom plate, it should be OK but why do so many manufacturers insist on cramming everything into as small a chassis as possible. I understand completely about short signal paths but for those that like to mod, it makes life very hard.

 I think the problem you are having Art is because the tubes don't sit flush on the tube sockets. As I fully intend to enlarge the tube apertures on the top plate, this should cure this problem.

 I shall definately try Art's suggestion re. 'lifting' the mains Tx, that should alow a lot more heat to escape and faster and should in turn create a convection current, especialy as my Bada has no bottom plate now.


----------



## drarthurwells

I get messages, from Bada 12 owners or prospective owners, who are afraid of the Bada's heat and its effect on reliability.

 Paranoia about the heat issue is out of control.

 There are many Bada 12's that are working fine after three years of use, and have never had a problem.

 Heat from the Bada is generated by the mosfets (which always run wide open for best sound from them), which mount on the frame [size=medium]above[/size] the circuit board, where the heat goes up onto the top plate (serving as a heat sink) and dissipates from the top surface. The circuit board below does warm up some from this heat, but is protected in large part because the heat above it goes up instead of down. I don't think heat is a big issue - if I did I would elevate the dome power transformer to allow air to rise from the gap at the bottom of the transformer. I see no need to go the minor trouble of doing this.

 Heat does not cause mosfet failure - I have some in a Hafler SS amp that have lasted 30 years with no problems. Mosfet failure in the Bada is due to owners removing tubes without waiting long enough for the power capacitor stored power to drain. I leave the amp off for 24 hours before taking any tube out. I have four Badas and run two at a time so I can always switch if I want to listen to different tubes without waiting. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Art,
 if you don't change those signal path caps that Tourmaline and I have done, you will be mising out on a huge step-up in quality. If you use the method I have done ie. leave the legs of the Solen caps to solder to - you can always replace them if you don't like the changed sonics.

 I'm going to try the Russian 2.2uF K-75 series PIOs in place of the Mundorf Audiophilers - they may not be better but will almost certainly have a different sound.

 I don't intend to to change the Audiophiler .47uF caps I use instead of the Solen 1uFs but will add Russian Teflon 0.022uF to these - it should give a much clearer top end (not that it's bad at the moment).

 Trouble is with using both these caps is room, as I use fan cooling permanently now, with no bottom plate, it should be OK but why do so many manufacturers insist on cramming everything into as small a chassis as possible. I understand completely about short signal paths but for those that like to mod, it makes life very hard.
_

 


 I may try the cap mods. What elevated the sound of my sytem is adding the Cardas cable to the HD600. The stock Sennheiser cable made the sound lean, with glare to certain tones, and with glaze to the soundstage. The Cardas eliminated these problems and improved 3-D imaging to boot. I am fearful the mods may disturb the synergy I now have. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Art,
 Trouble is with using both these caps is room, as I use fan cooling permanently now, with no bottom plate, it should be OK but why do so many manufacturers insist on cramming everything into as small a chassis as possible. I understand completely about short signal paths but for those that like to mod, it makes life very hard.


 I shall definately try Art's suggestion re. 'lifting' the mains Tx, that should alow a lot more heat to escape and faster and should in turn create a convection current, especialy as my Bada has no bottom plate now._

 


 Actually you gave me the idea of lifting the dome power transformer up slightly (using wood or plastic spacers) from the frame, to allow air flow out from the inside, in a previous mesage to me. A good idea - I should have given you credit for it in my post of the idea, but I always take credit for the good work of others whenever I can.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Art,
 I think the problem you are having Art is because the tubes don't sit flush on the tube sockets. As I fully intend to enlarge the tube apertures on the top plate, this should cure this problem.
_

 

No, the Bada is designed for the tube base bottom to rest on the frame so they are not fully inserted in the socket. The tube pin only needs 2 mm insertion into the socket to enable pin contact and it now goes in much more than that.

 The problems I had with one of my Bada 12 amps was because of a bent contact in the socket of the right rear tube. A month or two ago I brushed something up against the tube in this socket and knocked the tube slightly askance. I straightened this tube without removing it and tried the amp out, with the tubes staying in it, and it was OK. 

 It was only later, when I made a tube change in this amp, when I had a right channel problem. I then turned the amp off and waited 24 hours before changing tubes. I did this several times and each time it might be a hum, or a loss of the right channel, or a crackling noise, or at times no problems.

 Recently I examined the tube sockets in cleaning them with a doubled over pipe cleaner dipped in rubbing alcohol - doing this from underneath the upside down amp so the alcohol would not drip inside the amp.

 Then I noticed one socket contact that was pushed to the side. I centered it and also pushed it out toward the center some to make better tube pin contact. The pin contacts in the socket have two wires - one in a slot on the side and the other with thicker ending. This thick end is should be centered but should also be away from the side and toward the center (slightly) - it makes contact with the tube pin.

 After correcting this bent pin by moving it with pointed ice pick type tool, and cleaning all the socket contacts, the amp never sounded better and exhibits no problems, using the same tubes that caused problems in it earlier.


----------



## Black Stuart

Art and others,
 I got around to changing out the Mundorf-Audiophiler 2.2uF caps first and used Russian K75 in their place. I had thought them to be PIO/paper in oil but in fact thanks to a Polish guy on another forum, they are in fact polypropelene-ish (his words) in oil. Proper PIOs are in fact grey and are of the K40Y series.

 These Russian caps are about 3 times the size of the Audiophilers but I could still have used them (just) if I was still using the Bada's bottom plate.

 I was very pleased with the Bada before I made this cap change but now there is so much more foot tapping life and extension to the sound and I would have to use the word 'exuberance' but not in any unnatural way.

 I decided to use the same series of Russian cap for the .47uf position. I was fully expecting this to be OTT but the reverse was true - it sought of sat on the sound ever so slightly - it was very clean but had lost the magic.

 I could'nt see this changing in time so, out they came and I reverted to plan A which was to use the Audiophiler .47uF and the Russian Teflon 0.022uf together, I used hot melt glue to keep the teflon caps in position, this also has the desirable effect of knocking out resonance (as used in speaker x/overs) before soldering.

 There is a cleaner sound right through the spectrum but most of the life has returned and I am hearing detail I never heard before. There is just a hint of harshness that I don't like. I know it does'nt come from the Audiophiler caps, so I must assume that it eminates from the Russian polyprop. I was warned that Teflon can appear to be very cold and I think that if I used a bigger value Teflon cap this would be absolutely true, there is just a hint of steel sometimes but I think this is worth it for the extra detail coming through.

 From these changes I have made, I am certain that the .47Uf (1uF stock) cap controls the overall sound of the amp. I feel certain that contrary to my feelings that I now have about PIOs, a good 2.2Uf PIO has the potential to be superb or Tourmaline's Dutch special.

 If you have a bright sounding system then the Mundorf-Audiophiler are great little caps, very cheap, easy to fit and you may never feel like changing them.

 My findings have all been made using CDs. Once I have tried LPs, I will post again. It could well be that I will find no trace of harshness at all using vinyl.

 Play with these caps as Tourmaline and I have done, find your 'salsa mix' and be gobsmacked at the difference.

 Pataburd have you made those changes to your Bada yet - be nice to hear the opinion of others.


----------



## romanalexander

The Bada is still my favorite amp. I am using one electro gold tube up front and two Chinese 6SN7GT in the back. Sounds excellent!


----------



## Black Stuart

Maybe I need to use a smaller value Teflon (I now have access to a whole range of Russian Teflon/polys/PIO caps) but I could'nt stand the 'glare' of th teflon, so removed it.

 All that wonderful organic sound returned for just a smidgeon less detail. I played Nigel Kennedy's Seasons, a CD I have always enjoyed but also always found it bright and thin. With this combo of caps, it took on a new life.

 Synergy - the Mundorf-Audiophiler and the Russian polyprop obviously go together. For anyone with a bright sounding system and who use the Bada would be very pleased if they used these two caps together. The Mundorf is cheap as are the Russian caps, if you can get hold of them nowadays.

 I may well try the Mundorf Silver in oil, that's why it would be great if Pataburd comes back to the thread with his use of the Mundorfs and how they sounded.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get messages, from Bada 12 owners or prospective owners, who are afraid of the Bada's heat and its effect on reliability.

 Paranoia about the heat issue is out of control.

 There are many Bada 12's that are working fine after three years of use, and have never had a problem.

 Heat from the Bada is generated by the mosfets (which always run wide open for best sound from them), which mount on the frame [size=medium]above[/size] the circuit board, where the heat goes up onto the top plate (serving as a heat sink) and dissipates from the top surface. The circuit board below does warm up some from this heat, but is protected in large part because the heat above it goes up instead of down. I don't think heat is a big issue - if I did I would elevate the dome power transformer to allow air to rise from the gap at the bottom of the transformer. I see no need to go the minor trouble of doing this.

 Heat does not cause mosfet failure - I have some in a Hafler SS amp that have lasted 30 years with no problems. Mosfet failure in the Bada is due to owners removing tubes without waiting long enough for the power capacitor stored power to drain. I leave the amp off for 24 hours before taking any tube out. I have four Badas and run two at a time so I can always switch if I want to listen to different tubes without waiting. 





 I may try the cap mods. What elevated the sound of my sytem is adding the Cardas cable to the HD600. The stock Sennheiser cable made the sound lean, with glare to certain tones, and with glaze to the soundstage. The Cardas eliminated these problems and improved 3-D imaging to boot. I am fearful the mods may disturb the synergy I now have. 




 Actually you gave me the idea of lifting the dome power transformer up slightly (using wood or plastic spacers) from the frame, to allow air flow out from the inside, in a previous mesage to me. A good idea - I should have given you credit for it in my post of the idea, but I always take credit for the good work of others whenever I can.



 No, the Bada is designed for the tube base bottom to rest on the frame so they are not fully inserted in the socket. The tube pin only needs 2 mm insertion into the socket to enable pin contact and it now goes in much more than that.

 The problems I had with one of my Bada 12 amps was because of a bent contact in the socket of the right rear tube. A month or two ago I brushed something up against the tube in this socket and knocked the tube slightly askance. I straightened this tube without removing it and tried the amp out, with the tubes staying in it, and it was OK. 

 It was only later, when I made a tube change in this amp, when I had a right channel problem. I then turned the amp off and waited 24 hours before changing tubes. I did this several times and each time it might be a hum, or a loss of the right channel, or a crackling noise, or at times no problems.

 Recently I examined the tube sockets in cleaning them with a doubled over pipe cleaner dipped in rubbing alcohol - doing this from underneath the upside down amp so the alcohol would not drip inside the amp.

 Then I noticed one socket contact that was pushed to the side. I centered it and also pushed it out toward the center some to make better tube pin contact. The pin contacts in the socket have two wires - one in a slot on the side and the other with thicker ending. This thick end is should be centered but should also be away from the side and toward the center (slightly) - it makes contact with the tube pin.

 After correcting this bent pin by moving it with pointed ice pick type tool, and cleaning all the socket contacts, the amp never sounded better and exhibits no problems, using the same tubes that caused problems in it earlier._

 

It isn't an issue as in bursting into flames all of a sudden but active cooling will improve sound considderably. Cooling the tubes and mosfets will make em more efficient and last longer, especially when you're using expensive tubes like the sylvania w's!

 I removed the transformer completely from the chassis! The bada is ice cold to touch with active cooling after 3 hours of operation.

 You don't have to get paranoia of the heat but it certainly helps the sound of the bada and it's not subtle. Ask Stuart, he knows it matters. This is a general problem for every amp, especially tube amps, not just the bada!

 I only wait 30 minutes, then i switch tubes if i want to. No need for waiting 24hours. never blew up a fet!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It isn't an issue as in bursting into flames all of a sudden but active cooling will improve sound considderably. Cooling the tubes and mosfets will make em more efficient and last longer, especially when you're using expensive tubes like the sylvania w's!

 I removed the transformer completely from the chassis! The bada is ice cold to touch with active cooling after 3 hours of operation.

 You don't have to get paranoia of the heat but it certainly helps the sound of the bada and it's not subtle. Ask Stuart, he knows it matters. This is a general problem for every amp, especially tube amps, not just the bada!

 I only wait 30 minutes, then i switch tubes if i want to. No need for waiting 24hours. never blew up a fet!_

 

"What the...???"

 So where did you put it... the transformer, I mean... in the freezer?

 And... how is it connected to the chassis? 

 Does it electrocute your cat... or dog... or your 2 year old... if they get close to it?

 Is all this really necessary... or... practical - no matter how much it improved the sound???


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"What the...???"

 So where did you put it... the transformer, I mean... in the freezer?

 And... how is it connected to the chassis? 

 Does it electrocute your cat... or dog... or your 2 year old... if they get close to it?

 Is all this really necessary... or... practical - no matter how much it improved the sound???_

 

Wouldn't you guess he put the transformer in a seperate case and connects the transformer to the amp with a power umbilical of some sort? Practical .... very .... you isolate not only the heat but also any noise from the electronics side. Doing so is relatively easy if you have a basic understanding of electronics and are somewhat handy with a soldering iron.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't you guess he put the transformer in a seperate case and connects the transformer to the amp with a power umbilical of some sort? Practical .... very .... you isolate not only the heat but also any noise from the electronics side. Doing so is relatively easy if you have a basic understanding of electronics and are somewhat handy with a soldering iron._

 

Bingo,

 it solved part of the heat "problems" and the transformer is fibrating, thus influincing the sound. If you remove the transformer from the amp section, you just remove all the electronical problems(fibration and magnetics influence). No negative side-effects, only benefits!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't you guess he put the transformer in a seperate case and connects the transformer to the amp with a power umbilical of some sort? Practical .... very .... you isolate not only the heat but also any noise from the electronics side. Doing so is relatively easy if you have a basic understanding of electronics and are somewhat handy with a soldering iron._

 

Pictures of the mod:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250682


----------



## Black Stuart

sacd lover,
 thanks for your well worded and contained response to gradofan2.

 Tourmaline trailblazed with fan cooling, though he did originally think like Art on this issue of heat.

 What he has done is set me off on a journey that I know will be very profitable re. cooling of valve/mosfet amps.

 Now that autumn is here behind the snowy mountains, I find that I only need the 7.5 V from the fans to keep the my Bada just cool. There is just a little 'sound' from the fans, which does'nt matter using h/phones but would if I was listening via speakers.

 With valve power amps, which is what I use, it is only nec. to enclose the space around the bottom of the amp, so any sound would have to travel upward through the chassis - bingo - no fan sound at listening position. I shall be using slate pieces to acheive this. BTW I can state with confidence that any sound from the fans does not intrude into the listening experience.

 Removing the mains Tx from the chassis - as far as I'm concerned, the only sensible thing to do with mains Tx and PSU is to isolate them from the signal section. This is as sacd lover said is acheived via umbilicals. In fact what I'm looking to do is have a two box affair with cables routed through enamelled copper pipes and the two boxes mounted inside a frame structure.

 All power/h/amps should be built this way - it is so logical BUT it's cheaper to produce a one box affair. 

 I also now don't think it is nec. to drill out the Bada chassis as extensively as Tourmaline has done. Removing altogether the mains Tx or at least lifting it clear of the chassis is a must. Enlarging the valve ports on the chassis top plate is important to allow for more heat dissipation from the valves. Creating large horizontal slots in the side panels will mean quicker heat dissipation from the chassis.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sacd lover,
 thanks for your well worded and contained response to gradofan2.

 Tourmaline trailblazed with fan cooling, though he did originally think like Art on this issue of heat.

 What he has done is set me off on a journey that I know will be very profitable re. cooling of valve/mosfet amps.

 Now that autumn is here behind the snowy mountains, I find that I only need the 7.5 V from the fans to keep the my Bada just cool. There is just a little 'sound' from the fans, which does'nt matter using h/phones but would if I was listening via speakers.

 With valve power amps, which is what I use, it is only nec. to enclose the space around the bottom of the amp, so any sound would have to travel upward through the chassis - bingo - no fan sound at listening position. I shall be using slate pieces to acheive this. BTW I can state with confidence that any sound from the fans does not intrude into the listening experience.

 Removing the mains Tx from the chassis - as far as I'm concerned, the only sensible thing to do with mains Tx and PSU is to isolate them from the signal section. This is as sacd lover said is acheived via umbilicals. In fact what I'm looking to do is have a two box affair with cables routed through enamelled copper pipes and the two boxes mounted inside a frame structure.

 All power/h/amps should be built this way - it is so logical BUT it's cheaper to produce a one box affair. 

 I also now don't think it is nec. to drill out the Bada chassis as extensively as Tourmaline has done. Removing altogether the mains Tx or at least lifting it clear of the chassis is a must. Enlarging the valve ports on the chassis top plate is important to allow for more heat dissipation from the valves. Creating large horizontal slots in the side panels will mean quicker heat dissipation from the chassis._

 

While i was modding, i had the chance to dril out the whole chassis. The pcb had to be removed anyway because i wanted the TX out of the chassis and out of the way of the mosfets. The large TX housing sits on top of the mosfets, not a very good place, since the mosfets need to dissapate a lot of heat, especially in class a mode! The mosfets are screwed onto the topplate to dissapate the heat, but since the large tx is on that exact same spot, dissapation is not really good(tx prefents the chassis from cooling the mosfets) and the bada gets hot. 

 Wat stuart said, probably a few large slots in the side panel will get you there. Advantage of active cooling is that the fans will constantly blow away the warm air. Since i had easy access to the chassis, i opted to drill the side panels and the topplate completely.

 The fans were very carefully chosen for sound reproduction and quality. papst fans are one of the best around and the noise production, especially at 7,5 volts, is very low. At that voltage, sound is even below wispering sound, wich is between 25 and 29 db! The papst fans can operate between 7 and 14 volts, means you can adjust cooling and sound to your liking. Stuart and me can set the voltage between 7,5 volts and 12 volts. Again, at 7,5 volts the noise made by the fans is below whispering levels, about 19-21 db

 Advantage of adjustable voltage is that you can adjust rotation of the fans when you need more cooling, especially in countries where it gets very hot in summer, like spain or african countries.

 Benefits are:
 Mosfets will be kept completely cool, thus operating much more efficient and sounding better.
 Tubes are kept cool, operating less hot and also sound better(remember the tube cooling fans you can buy?!)
 And because of the cooling the life of the tubes will be much, much longer since 10 degrees celcius more heat will cut tube life in half.

 From getting hot, about 50 degrees celcius, the bada is now completely cool, icey cool to the touch on 12 volts operating voltage.

 The two elements that have most impact on the sound are probably completely modding the powersections(clean and stable power) and replacing the coupler caps near the tubes. (the 1ufarad caps near the tubes changing for 0.47ufarad caps).

 The powersection is so good and stable now that it sounds better straight out of the wall then using a passive powerfilter!!! Before the mod, it sounded better with the passive filter!

 I am convinced that a good designed powersection where good caps are used doesn't need any filtering at all. So, with filtering you only patch a problem that is clearly in your powersection to begin with!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look here if you wanna know what was done to my bada!
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250682

 If you like, i can draw on the schematics of the bada where exactly you need to change the caps or resistors.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or on a picture of the bada interior to point out the caps and resistors!

 That's why i ordered the venhaus oils! They fit perfectly in that spot and are regarded highest of the oils around. They are a bit on the expensive side though But wirth the money. It seems that the mundorf silver in oils are better then the silver/gold ones!

 I took all high end grade materials, Stuart is not far behind but he said he lacked some detail and wants to change the 2.2 caps for better ones. I told him the cheap mundorfs wouldn't be that good in that position but now he heard, he wants to change them for better ones.

 By the way stuart, i didn't leave the solens in the powersection but these caps are actually Rubicon caps. In that position, they are actually very good.
 Rubicon is the same manufacturer as black gate, if i am not mistaken. But they discontinued the black gate caps, to bad since these are one of the best around. Especially the red NX type of black gate caps and they have the lowest noise floor of any cap around, they are very clean! And i got loads of em in there. As you can imagine, the bada became twice as efficient as it was before, it's so clean and powerfull.

 In powersection solens are really good, but not in the signal path._

 

Tour,
 It looks like the 1.0uF replacement for the 2.2uF capacitor is not a good idea. I'd really like to try the 2.2uF Mundorf silver/oil, but am not sure if they'll fit. (I'd prefer not to leave the bottom plate off.)

 Just bought a $14 Lasco 2-speed, 6" desk fan to cool the Bada. The amp is cool to the touch after an hour or two and--I may be imagining this--seems to sound wider, more relaxed and open. : ) In addition, the Lasco (I damped it with some weights) runs quieter than the Bada's own, internal cooling fan! : )

 With the cooling piece taken care of, I have a lot more confidence in the longevity of this amp, and a lot less inkling to sell it.

 PatABurd


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *romanalexander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Bada is still my favorite amp. I am using one electro gold tube up front and two Chinese 6SN7GT in the back. Sounds excellent!_

 

Great combo.

 But take out the EH Gold in front, and put in a Ken Rad 6SN7 GT in it's place (be sure to use the staggered plates tube like in the VT-231 and early GT tubes since later GT tubes with "squared up" plate models are actually GE labelled as Ken Rad). This has become my reference standard

 This change will give better tone body resolution revealing subtle timbre and tone body texture differences - more bite and glow to a cello, etc.


 Tourmaline : Worried about your pulling tubes after waiting for the amp to be off only 30 minutes. The issue is not mosfet heat but power cap power storage. The power in the power caps is still high after just 30 minutes and taking out a tube here could short the mosfet. Great idea about isolating the power transformer. Take the bottom plate off (leave the fan wires connected) and tilt the bottom plate askance to enable you to use a large flat screwdriver, inserted at the end of the manboard, to take out the large screw holding the domed transformer on the amp's top. The wires from the transformer are long enough to pull the dome up from the amp, clip these wires, solder in an extension for each wire using large guage insulated copper wire (matchin connections as were originally there). A three foot extension will allow you to move the transformer away from the amp, and the open section where the dome rested will now allow hot air to escape. Great idea Tourmaline. Also drill some holes in the front section of the bottom plate to allow more cold air to enter. These mods may prevent the internal fan from ever coming on, in cool weather.


----------



## pjr300

tbonner1, I just read through your 21 amp review. Although I have only heard about a third of those amps, I can't find any flaws and agree whole-heartedly with your findings. Great work and thanks for the effort! 

 I posted back on page three of this thread (was it really just over two years ago!?) . It's ironic that the Bada's quirky reliability continues to come into question, as that's what got me out of my Bada. I've experienced a tube-MOSFET amp repeatedly morphing into a July 4th show (can anyone say "Counterpoint SA-20") and I really have no patience for it. Downtime is not an option, especially when support is on the other side of the globe. 

 I prefer the sound of tubes, as well as its relative ease of maintenance, modification, and repair. The Bada sound is more solid state than I desire, and why deal with the potential repair issues? Any amp that forces you to wait 24 hours to remove a tube has, in my opinion, a serious design flaw as a viable consumer product.


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 have you used 0.47uFs Mundorf silver in oil yet? I am so pleased with the sound of the Bada now, that I am in no hurry to try them but probably will later on.

 Glad you find the same thing as Tourmaline and I do re. fan cooling. 

 pjr300 - AFAIK your Bada appears to be an exception re. reliablity. I use valve gear myself and I can't describe the Bada as a SS sound. In fact so pleased am I with the sound, that I'm seriously thinking of creating a Bada type pre-amp using the 6SN7 and monoblock class D Hypex modules or mosfet o/put. The downside to using mosfets would be the power requirements and the need to use both big heatsinks and fan cooling.

 Someone in the UK has done a lot of work using the basic Hypex modules and has rejected a very good 6550 amp in preference. It should receive a critical listen from people I know and whose ears I trust.

 Art, I can't see why Bada designed their amp so that the valves don't sit right down on the valve bases but sit directly on the top plate. As it happens I think this can be used to advantage. looking at Xindak's site I see that they drill holes all around each valve port - looks pretty but I'm not sure that is the most effective way to do it. Here I get stumped not having engineering facilities.

 What I would like to do is accurately cut slots radially from the valve ports approx. 1cm deep and 1/2cm wide at 1/2cm intervals - still plenty of support for the valves, this will allow hot air to escape from above the PCB very rapidly and aid the cooling work of the Pearl Coolers I use with the 6SN7s.

 Just writing this I had the inspiration to file out these slots - time consuming to do properly and to look good but should be worth the trouble.


----------



## pataburd

pjr300,

 I share your sentiments somewhat. The heat issue can be solved easily, though, w/active cooling. The "24-hour mosfet change rule" seems open to debate, as well--Tourmaline, for example, only waits 30 minutes between tube rolls without problem. It's still not quite clear clear to me what caused my mosfet to fail (could have been a power surge). However, I did wait a long time--well over a month--before it was fixed. And that was a drag! 

 I've also looked at--but not listened to--the Rudistor hybrids (at 2x to 4x the price of the Bada). The G&W T2.6F is a good, reliable hybrid, too, it's just that I don't care as much for the 6922 as I do the 6SN7. : ) The G&W, IME, definitely sounds more "solid state" than the Bada. The only other amp that's even turned my head lately is the (all-tube: 2x 6SJ7 + 2x 6AS7) Darkvoice 337. I'd like to try one but, if so, then what will I do with all those lovely 6SN7's I've accumulated over the years? : )

 Am running the Bada w/1x National Union 6SN7GT + 2x Raytheon 6SN7GT and I don't feel like I'm missing anything (i.e. another amp) at this point! Once I get the mods/upgrades in order, I'll have even less reason to let go of the PH-12. : )

 PatABurd


----------



## pjr300

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 ....pjr300 - AFAIK your Bada appears to be an exception re. reliablity. I use valve gear myself and I can't describe the Bada as a SS sound. In fact so pleased am I with the sound, that I'm seriously thinking of creating a Bada type pre-amp using the 6SN7 and monoblock class D Hypex modules or mosfet o/put. The downside to using mosfets would be the power requirements and the need to use both big heatsinks and fan cooling...._

 

I guess I should clarify. It is not as "lush" as a tube amp. It may -- and I may -- be more accurate. At the end of the day, it's just another chapter in that decades-old debate of what is better, tubes or solid state. My experience is that the Bada is cloer to a ss sound instead of a tube sound. That does not make it fundamentally good or bad. And my experience is similar to how tbonner1 describes the amp in his 21 amp survey. Again, not bad, just not a tube sound....


----------



## Roam

I like how no one's bothered installing bleeder resistors to prevent the amp from frying parts when switching tubes. Even more hilarious is that an entire gain stage, and thus a whole tube can be eliminated with 2 resistor changes, 2 LEDs, and 2 pieces of wire. But I guess it's more fun to play musical chairs with capacitors than it is to actually fix the circuit...


----------



## pjr300

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like how no one's bothered installing bleeder resistors to prevent the amp from frying parts when switching tubes. Even more hilarious is that an entire gain stage, and thus a whole tube can be eliminated with 2 resistor changes, 2 LEDs, and 2 pieces of wire. But I guess it's more fun to play musical chairs with capacitors than it is to actually fix the circuit..._

 

...which is what the manufacturer should do... before they sell the product to consumers.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like how no one's bothered installing bleeder resistors to prevent the amp from frying parts when switching tubes. Even more hilarious is that an entire gain stage, and thus a whole tube can be eliminated with 2 resistor changes, 2 LEDs, and 2 pieces of wire. But I guess it's more fun to play musical chairs with capacitors than it is to actually fix the circuit..._

 

Did you really click on the link on totally modding the bada?

 Then you should appreciate what was done to mine!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 It looks like the 1.0uF replacement for the 2.2uF capacitor is not a good idea. I'd really like to try the 2.2uF Mundorf silver/oil, but am not sure if they'll fit. (I'd prefer not to leave the bottom plate off.)

 Just bought a $14 Lasco 2-speed, 6" desk fan to cool the Bada. The amp is cool to the touch after an hour or two and--I may be imagining this--seems to sound wider, more relaxed and open. : ) In addition, the Lasco (I damped it with some weights) runs quieter than the Bada's own, internal cooling fan! : )

 With the cooling piece taken care of, I have a lot more confidence in the longevity of this amp, and a lot less inkling to sell it.

 PatABurd_

 

Defenately not! The problem with smaller caps is that they alter the frequency responce. Larger caps have in general better low frequency responce and the venhaus 2.7ufarad caps(they fit in the housing, hint, hint)give unbelievable bass. I told Stuart the other day that i was listening to the cd of bjork and it had such an unbelievable deep, tight, full bodied bass. The venhaus caps come here into play as well, they have a deeper, full bodied bass. It reminded me of the very expensive and exotic large speakers!

 You are not imagining anything: the active cooling will have quite an influence on the sound...it gets more detailed, open and relaxed. The moment i put the fans on, it immediatly starts to sound better. it just takes about a few mintues from 50 celcius to icy cold with the papst fans on 12 volts.

 The stock bada fan is quite a laugh; too small to cool anything and too small to make no noise. In fact it's the loudest fan i've ever heard.

 I don't think the mundorf silver in oils fit in the housing! I was looking at them too for the complete mod but stumbled across the venhaus caps and they just fit in there! 

 The fact is that my bada is still improving...more detail....and the sound smoothed out a bit. The bada is totally in control of the hd650: no boomy bass or whatsoever!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great combo.

 But take out the EH Gold in front, and put in a Ken Rad 6SN7 GT in it's place (be sure to use the staggered plates tube like in the VT-231 and early GT tubes since later GT tubes with "squared up" plate models are actually GE labelled as Ken Rad). This has become my reference standard

 This change will give better tone body resolution revealing subtle timbre and tone body texture differences - more bite and glow to a cello, etc.


 Tourmaline : Worried about your pulling tubes after waiting for the amp to be off only 30 minutes. The issue is not mosfet heat but power cap power storage. The power in the power caps is still high after just 30 minutes and taking out a tube here could short the mosfet. Great idea about isolating the power transformer. Take the bottom plate off (leave the fan wires connected) and tilt the bottom plate askance to enable you to use a large flat screwdriver, inserted at the end of the manboard, to take out the large screw holding the domed transformer on the amp's top. The wires from the transformer are long enough to pull the dome up from the amp, clip these wires, solder in an extension for each wire using large guage insulated copper wire (matchin connections as were originally there). A three foot extension will allow you to move the transformer away from the amp, and the open section where the dome rested will now allow hot air to escape. Great idea Tourmaline. Also drill some holes in the front section of the bottom plate to allow more cold air to enter. These mods may prevent the internal fan from ever coming on, in cool weather._

 

Art, 
 did you try the sylvania w in front? I tried this once and i was amazed of how much more space and distance i got from the w as driver tube. The downside is that i don't have enough 6sn7 types to try out and i didn't find a good match with my tubes but it's defenately something to explore. Maybe you'll find a combo for a sylvania w in front. I still use the raytheon and the 2 sylvania w's combo. probably one of the reasons most use the sylvania 6sn7 w as the driver tube for the 300B!

 I have an extension cord and the hd650 pluged into the bada. I'll leave that in all the time and just wait half an hour or longer, not more then 45 minutes, to change tubes. No Problems whatsoever. Also with the original bada this was not a problem.
 One other thing:

 fibration reduction under your cdplayer might a thing to look at and to try out yourself! One of the last things to make it complete.


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you really click on the link on totally modding the bada?

 Then you should appreciate what was done to mine!_

 

It's impressive from a parts swapping standpoint, but unfortunately it doesn't solve any of the circuit's problems.


 Let's look at the schematic which can be found in this thread.

 1) Gridstoppers aren't needed on a 6SN7, 6SN7s do not oscillate unless you've done something truly stupid.

 2) The maximum input voltage before clipping is around 0.35V. The 2nd stage will clip if you try to push it any harder.

 3) Plate load resistors are far too low, Ra should be around 5 times the tube's plate impedance. The plate impedance of the 6SN7 is around 9k ohms at the operating point used in the PH-12.

 4) The total gain of the first 2 stages is around 25, the gain of an optimally loaded 6SN7 is around 20. Thus the 2 stages can be replaced with a single stage for a minor and likely unnoticeable drop in gain.

 5) No bleeder resistors on the power supply


 If I were to fix this monkey-designed circuit, here's what I'd do. Refer to this schematic for parts & labels.

 1) Run a wire straight from the volume control to U7. Remove R11, 12, 13, 14, and 15. Remove C21 and U6.

 2) Replace R17 with a 10-15mA yellow LED.

 3) Replace R16 with an IXCP 10M90S (used as a CCS). Set it to flow 8-10mA.

 4) Replace the wire between U7 and U8 with a 0.22uF capacitor.

 5) Place a 470k resistor with one lead between U8 and the 0.22uF capacitor, and the other lead between U8 and R18.

 6) Install bleeder resistors on C19 and C23. Use 100k-200k for C19 and 20k-40k for C23.


 What does this accomplish?

 1) Greatly improved linearity, lowered distortion, far more headroom before clipping.

 2) Cooler running, an entire tube has been removed.

 3) Improved channel separation. Each channel has its own tube, there are no shared tubes between channels.

 4) The charge in the capacitors will be bled down after the amp is turned off. Prevents stored charge and fried parts.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's impressive from a parts swapping standpoint, but unfortunately it doesn't solve any of the circuit's problems.


 Let's look at the schematic which can be found in this thread.

 1) Gridstoppers aren't needed on a 6SN7, 6SN7s do not oscillate unless you've done something truly stupid.

 2) The maximum input voltage before clipping is around 0.35V. The 2nd stage will clip if you try to push it any harder.

 3) Plate load resistors are far too low, Ra should be around 5 times the tube's plate impedance. The plate impedance of the 6SN7 is around 9k ohms at the operating point used in the PH-12.

 4) The total gain of the first 2 stages is around 25, the gain of an optimally loaded 6SN7 is around 20. Thus the 2 stages can be replaced with a single stage for a minor and likely unnoticeable drop in gain.

 5) No bleeder resistors on the power supply


 If I were to fix this monkey-designed circuit, here's what I'd do. Refer to this schematic for parts & labels.

 1) Run a wire straight from the volume control to U7. Remove R11, 12, 13, 14, and 15. Remove C21 and U6.

 2) Replace R17 with a 10-15mA yellow LED.

 3) Replace R16 with an IXCP 10M90S (used as a CCS). Set it to flow 8-10mA.

 4) Replace the wire between U7 and U8 with a 0.22uF capacitor.

 5) Place a 470k resistor with one lead between U8 and the 0.22uF capacitor, and the other lead between U8 and R18.

 6) Install bleeder resistors on C19 and C23. Use 100k-200k for C19 and 20k-40k for C23.


 What does this accomplish?

 1) Greatly improved linearity, lowered distortion, far more headroom before clipping.

 2) Cooler running, an entire tube has been removed.

 3) Improved channel separation. Each channel has its own tube, there are no shared tubes between channels.

 4) The charge in the capacitors will be bled down after the amp is turned off. Prevents stored charge and fried parts._

 

Oh yes it does. They removed parts also, made the powersupply more stable and powerfull and bypassed some things.

 By the way, adding caps will change sound.

 Really took a good look at the mod?

 You know for sure the fets are not the biggest heat source. I know they are.LOL.

 Running cooler isn't a problem with active cooling and it improves sound even further, tubes and mosfets work more effective!

 That's the schematic used for the mod.

 By the way, the professional modders didn't agree with some of your suggestions.

 You don't know how your modification will sound, do you?! The modders listen in between modding, so they know what they mod sounds good!

 Do you own a bada? Did you measure anything? Especially the tubes? The schematics weren't really accurate, according to the professionals. Modding from a piece of paper doesn't make any sense! especially when you're not completely sure the schematics are actually accurate!

 I suggest you start modding and listen to the things you mod. that way you KNOW what impact they have on sound. You suggested 1ufarad instead of 2.2ufarad; Chris Venhaus, the man himself that designed the famous Venhaus oil and teflon caps suggested to me that i better use 2.7ufarad caps in that certain place for a better low frequency responce. And the bass is really impressive now.

 Stop make people believe you're a bigshot amp designer! Two individual professional sources have adviced me quite the opposite of your so called great ideas!

 Unless you have mod experience of over 30 years or design your own components like Venhaus does and the professional modders do, i am not inclined to believe any of your fairytales.

 To me, you really aren't anything else then a pencil pusher aren't you!


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yes it does. They removed parts also, made the powersupply more stable and powerfull and bypassed some things._

 

From what I see in your thread, the only circuit change is a volume control shunt and extra capacitors in the power supply. The rest is fancy resistors, capacitors, and wires. The audio circuit itself remains unfixed.

  Quote:


 By the way, adding caps will change sound. 
 

No capacitors were added. A large capacitor is replaced with a smaller higher quality one. Of course it could be that you can't read, can't follow instruction, or can't read a schematic.

  Quote:


 Really took a good look at the mod? 
 

Yes, I did. It's typical audiophile foolery.

  Quote:


 By the way, the professional modders didn't agree with some of your suggestions. 
 

Most "professional modders" are nothing more than glorified parts swappers who wouldn't know the difference between a grounded grid and grounded cathode amp.

  Quote:


 You don't know how your modification will sound, do you?! The modders listen in between modding, so they know what they mod sounds good! 
 

You'd be mistaken, again, because I've done them.

  Quote:


 Do you own a bada? Did you measure anything? Especially the tubes? The schematics weren't really accurate, according to the professionals. Modding from a piece of paper doesn't make any sense! especially when you're not completely sure the schematics are actually accurate! 
 

That's because the clowns at Bada keep changing the circuit. I've had 3 Badas pass through my hands and every last one of them was different. I suspect they use whichever parts are convenient from the lowest priced supplier. 3 Badas in, 3 Badas out, 3 happy owners.

  Quote:


 Stop make people believe you're a bigshot amp designer! Two individual professional sources have adviced me quite the opposite of your so called great ideas! 
 

Wow. Unnamed "professional sources". I'm impressed. 5 professional psychiatrists have told me you're insane!

  Quote:


 Unless you have mod experience of over 30 years or design your own components like Venhaus does and the professional modders do, i am not inclined to believe any of your fairytales. 
 

I've worked for Tektronix and HP among others where I carried out instrumentation design. Amp design is child's play compared to spectrum analyzers. By the way, I'm retired now, after working over 30 years in the electronics industry.

  Quote:


 To me, you really aren't anything else then a pencil pusher aren't you! 
 

Would you like to buy another ad hominen? I try to be helpful and you take offence anyway like a spoiled teenage brat. Some days I wonder why I bother offering advice in a forum filled with insecure ingrates.


----------



## Gradofan2

Now... that's... I believe what they call... a "smackdown" man!

 I'm luvin' it!!!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I see in your thread, the only circuit change is a volume control shunt and extra capacitors in the power supply. The rest is fancy resistors, capacitors, and wires. The audio circuit itself remains unfixed.



 No capacitors were added. A large capacitor is replaced with a smaller higher quality one. Of course it could be that you can't read, can't follow instruction, or can't read a schematic.



 Yes, I did. It's typical audiophile foolery.



 Most "professional modders" are nothing more than glorified parts swappers who wouldn't know the difference between a grounded grid and grounded cathode amp.



 You'd be mistaken, again, because I've done them.



 That's because the clowns at Bada keep changing the circuit. I've had 3 Badas pass through my hands and every last one of them was different. I suspect they use whichever parts are convenient from the lowest priced supplier. 3 Badas in, 3 Badas out, 3 happy owners.



 Wow. Unnamed "professional sources". I'm impressed. 5 professional psychiatrists have told me you're insane!



 I've worked for Tektronix and HP among others where I carried out instrumentation design. Amp design is child's play compared to spectrum analyzers. By the way, I'm retired now, after working over 30 years in the electronics industry.



 Would you like to buy another ad hominen? I try to be helpful and you take offence anyway like a spoiled teenage brat. Some days I wonder why I bother offering advice in a forum filled with insecure ingrates._

 

first lie:

 "replace the wire between u7 and u8" replaced the wire with a 0.22ufarad cap. Isn't this adding a n extra cap in there? Not replacing a cap for a cap but adding a cap!

 second lie: 
 Unless i cannot read; Venhaus IS a respected man in the audio business, you aint. He got proven credentials. And his advice was way better then yours: swapping the 2.2 for 1! The 2.7 sounds better! If you don't know who Venhaus is, then you're even a bigger laugh then i thought you would be!
 My other source, in a different country then you're living in and having about 100 years of modding, designing and designing high end parts experience, in fact they are the oldest company to do so, laughed at some of your so called brillant idea's. Especially led's in the signal path!

 You don't have 30 years of designing, modding and designing high quality audio parts!
 You don't have a clue how the sound will change because of your mod!

 What people want is a bit more of the good from the bada, NOT a complete different amp. In that case i would buy another one!

 All i can say is: stick to your instrumental design! And drop your arrogant attitude. You're not the only one with knowledge! You don't design or sell any world renowed amps!
 Probably, you're the one with the least experience and knowledge in the audio field!

 People buy a certain brand because they like the sound of that brand. They don't buy a brand to mod it completely to another sound they don't like. Don't you get that in your head?! I told you this over and over again!

 If YOU don't like it, buy another amp and stop herrassing other bada owners! YOU don't own a bada, never modded one, and you don't plan on buying one!

 The only one who is behaving like a spoiled brat is you, thinking YOU know it all and made a few mistakes allready but skipped smartly over that in your comments! Further more: repairing planes doesn't make you a pilot, does it!

 I would say you suffer from a midlife crisis! Alot of older men have problems at that age! So, if any, i would say you're insecure! Most people in a crisis like that go after younger women, buy expensive sports cars or herrass other people in threads they don't have anything to say!


----------



## Hellenback

After reading the 20 top home amp thread I went as far as getting a quote from Cattylink for a Bada amp. Now, after reading some of this "modding" stuff it makes me wonder how good the thing is stock that it would impel people to spend so much time, effort and money to get a different/better sound. What exactly is wrong with the stock sound if one spends a little more on better tubes?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading the 20 top home amp thread I went as far as getting a quote from Cattylink for a Bada amp. Now, after reading some of this "modding" stuff it makes me wonder how good the thing is stock that it would impel people to spend so much time, effort and money to get a different/better sound. What exactly is wrong with the stock sound if one spends a little more on better tubes?_

 


 Nothing is wrong with the bada. It's just that some of us want more of the good out of the bada and suggested a few mods WITHOUT completely changing the sound of the bada. Tube change will get you allready a really good sound.

 As you put it so nicely; the bada won first place out of 20, also much more expensive amps.

 Do you read this ROAM? This means the amp isn't so bad at all. Or do you plan on completely redesigning the other 19 amps as well?!


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading the 20 top home amp thread I went as far as getting a quote from Cattylink for a Bada amp. Now, after reading some of this "modding" stuff it makes me wonder how good the thing is stock that it would impel people to spend so much time, effort and money to get a different/better sound. What exactly is wrong with the stock sound if one spends a little more on better tubes?_

 

The Bada sounds very nice in stock form.. Mates very well with the 701's & 650's...


----------



## minivan

i dont understand why he bought 3 bada if he reckon amp design is childplay. i would assume when he got his first bada, he would definitely open it up and laugh at it's circuit design? why would he go through all the trouble to buy a second and third bada? some1 care to explain ?


----------



## Black Stuart

Roam, 
 your remark about monkies was deeply offensive and entirely rascist, since you know full well that the amp is Chinese designed. In the UK you would almost certainly be facing a criminal charge for for 'incitement to racial hatred'.

 You've had 3 Badas through your hands - what exactly does that mean - have you owned 3 Badas, if not where did they come from?

 Every piece of electrical equipment I have ever owned has had the caveat that ' the manufacturers retain the right to alter the design or change components'. This is'nt the case in the USA as well - of course it is - just another racist slur.

 Mundorf-Audiophilers are cheap caps, that I use with great results but you did'nt refer to these did you, or the excellant (cheap) Russian polys in oil - did'nt suit your argument - pathetic.

 You racially abuse the manufacturers of the Bada, you openly state a contempt for professional designers.

 Your work was with professional measuring equipment - all it had to do was be accurate - what the hell has that got to with sonics.

 The 3 tube design in a lot of really good gear is used simply because that has proved to be the optimum way to acheive best sound - a driver tube to formulate the overall sound and the drivers (2) that compliment it. That is exactly what those who have the Bada like about it so much - the ability to personalise the sound.

 I think that Tourmaline has hit the nail on the head - you refer to him as 'a spoiled teenage brat' well I feel pretty sure in speaking for others here that those words sum YOU up very well and not Tourmaline. This is not the place to work out your mid-life crisis.

 You need to seek some help or if you have already, your not taking enough Largactyl. 

 Hellenback - there is a clear divide here between the USA and Europe. Far more Europeans will work on a piece of audio gear to improve what they hear but in the States you sell and buy another - just look at the for sale section here on Head-fi.

 In Europe a piece of gear that has been well modded has a higher price than stock in the s/hand market.

 Why don't manufacturers choose different components - they choose what they think will creat an acceptable sound across the broad section of the potential market of purchasers and they think about costs - tell me a company in any manufacturing field that does'nt use this criteria.

 Roam is a ranting threadcrapper, that should not be allowed to spoil what is a very interesting discussion between reasonable people who have different opinions but respect for each other - let's keep it that way.


----------



## Black Stuart

An error, 
 it should read 1 driver tube and 2 output tubes, thought I ought to post this correction before some plonker jumps in to make a song and dance about it.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Roam, 
 your remark about monkies was deeply offensive and entirely rascist, since you know full well that the amp is Chinese designed. In the UK you would almost certainly be facing a criminal charge for for 'incitement to racial hatred'.

 You've had 3 Badas through your hands - what exactly does that mean - have you owned 3 Badas, if not where did they come from?

 Every piece of electrical equipment I have ever owned has had the caveat that ' the manufacturers retain the right to alter the design or change components'. This is'nt the case in the USA as well - of course it is - just another racist slur.

 Mundorf-Audiophilers are cheap caps, that I use with great results but you did'nt refer to these did you, or the excellant (cheap) Russian polys in oil - did'nt suit your argument - pathetic.

 You racially abuse the manufacturers of the Bada, you openly state a contempt for professional designers.

 Your work was with professional measuring equipment - all it had to do was be accurate - what the hell has that got to with sonics.

 The 3 tube design in a lot of really good gear is used simply because that has proved to be the optimum way to acheive best sound - a driver tube to formulate the overall sound and the drivers (2) that compliment it. That is exactly what those who have the Bada like about it so much - the ability to personalise the sound.

 I think that Tourmaline has hit the nail on the head - you refer to him as 'a spoiled teenage brat' well I feel pretty sure in speaking for others here that those words sum YOU up very well and not Tourmaline. This is not the place to work out your mid-life crisis.

 You need to seek some help or if you have already, your not taking enough Largactyl. 

 Hellenback - there is a clear divide here between the USA and Europe. Far more Europeans will work on a piece of audio gear to improve what they hear but in the States you sell and buy another - just look at the for sale section here on Head-fi.

 In Europe a piece of gear that has been well modded has a higher price than stock in the s/hand market.

 Why don't manufacturers choose different components - they choose what they think will creat an acceptable sound across the broad section of the potential market of purchasers and they think about costs - tell me a company in any manufacturing field that does'nt use this criteria.

 Roam is a ranting threadcrapper, that should not be allowed to spoil what is a very interesting discussion between reasonable people who have different opinions but respect for each other - let's keep it that way._

 

I agree with you. We have a very interesting discussion going on between bada owners and those who modded the amp. We get different insights and good ideas.

 Just put Roam on the ignore list.

 Art:

 i am still interested in a good combo with 1 sylvania w as a driver tube (in front), instead of 2 at the back.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont understand why he bought 3 bada if he reckon amp design is childplay. i would assume when he got his first bada, he would definitely open it up and laugh at it's circuit design? why would he go through all the trouble to buy a second and third bada? some1 care to explain ?_

 

Don't waste any time on him.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing is wrong with the bada. It's just that some of us want more of the good out of the bada and suggested a few mods WITHOUT completely changing the sound of the bada. Tube change will get you allready a really good sound.

 As you put it so nicely; the bada won first place out of 20, also much more expensive amps.

 Do you read this ROAM? This means the amp isn't so bad at all. Or do you plan on completely redesigning the other 19 amps as well?!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 

I did read the review and I thought the results were just what they were .... one persons opinion. I owned the #2 rated stock Doge 6210 at the time and the 6210 was very underwheliming and rated ahead of an amp I know is decidely superior in my setup. So, I had this original 6210 repaired and rebuilt with the best parts available and the amp was still mediocre sounding. It wasnt until I read the circuit description and circuit design flaws provided by Roam that I understood the 6210's problems. Only when I had the amp rebuilt with a redesigned plate loaded input circuit did the amp truly perform. I like the 6210's and I have a second one with a rebuilt SRPP input stage. Same story .... stock average at best .... modded very much improved.

 I am aware many do not like Roam's blunt opinions and acerbic delivery .... but I can say he certainly knew what he was talking about in regards to my Doge 6210. So, regardless of his posting style he certainly does know circuit design. You might be wise to ignore his delivery and pay some attention to his expertise. You dont have to like someone to learn from them.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont understand why he bought 3 bada if he reckon amp design is childplay. i would assume when he got his first bada, he would definitely open it up and laugh at it's circuit design? why would he go through all the trouble to buy a second and third bada? some1 care to explain ?_

 


 I think you have misinterpreted his post. He appears to have modded the three amps for three different owners.

That's because the clowns at Bada keep changing the circuit. I've had 3 Badas pass through my hands and every last one of them was different. I suspect they use whichever parts are convenient from the lowest priced supplier. 3 Badas in, 3 Badas out, 3 happy owners.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did read the review and I thought the results were just what they were .... one persons opinion. I owned the #2 rated stock Doge 6210 at the time and the 6210 was very underwheliming and rated ahead of an amp I know is decidely superior in my setup. So, I had this original 6210 repaired and rebuilt with the best parts available and the amp was still mediocre sounding. It wasnt until I read the circuit description and circuit design flaws provided by Roam that I understood the 6210's problems. Only when I had the amp rebuilt with a redesigned plate loaded input circuit did the amp truly perform. I like the 6210's and I have a second one with a rebuilt SRPP input stage. Same story .... stock average at best .... modded very much improved.

 I am aware many do not like Roam's blunt opinions and acerbic delivery .... but I can say he certainly knew what he was talking about in regards to my Doge 6210. So, regardless of his posting style he certainly does know circuit design. You might be wise to ignore his delivery and pay some attention to his expertise. You dont have to like someone to learn from them._

 

He's not the only one with knowledge! He changes caps in a postion he doesn't even know wich impact it has on the sound. he might know instrument design but he doesn't know audio design and the impact of audio materials in certain positions!

 The professional modders have the advantage of KNOWING exactly what material has the most impact on certain positions!

 Also 2 renowned designers didn´t agree with his insights and adviced me otherwise, for the good!


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's not the only one with knowledge! He changes caps in a postion he doesn't even know wich impact it has on the sound. he might know instrument design but he doesn't know audio design and the impact of audio materials in certain positions!

 The professional modders have the advantage of KNOWING exactly what material has the most impact on certain positions!

 Also 2 renowned designers didn´t agree with his insights and adviced me otherwise, for the good!

 Futher more, he didn´t try the mods out himself so he doesn´t know IF it sounds good! Following him blindly might ruin what you like about the bada!_

 

I was not suggesting to blindly follow his input. But, I dont think you should totally disregard his imput either. Moreover, if he has actually modded three Badas I would think he would know how the amp sounds and if one works regularly with different caps you learn their general sound signature.

 I had a professional modder do a Music Hall cd player for me. He didnt even know how to install the zap flter correctly to the dac. He also didnt understand how to connect the zap filter to the mains and had the discrete output stage turned on 100% of the time. I had to take the cd player to Sacdmods for repair. When we opened the player I swear a second grader could have done a better job.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was not suggesting to blindly follow his input. But, I dont think you should totally disregard his imput either. Moreover, if he has actually modded three Badas I would think he would know how the amp sounds and if one works regularly with different caps you learn their general sound signature.

 I had a professional modder do a Music Hall cd player for me. He didnt even know how to install the zap flter correctly to the dac. He also didnt understand how to connect the zap filter to the mains and had the discrete output stage turned on 100% of the time. I had to take the cd player to Sacdmods for repair. When we opened the player I swear a second grader could have done a better job. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

True, probably not all modders are experienced as my professional modders.
 They mod, design and experiment on a daily bases with cheap and very expensive amps, cdplayers, dac's etc. I have total convidence they did a great job to maximize the sound of my bada.

 They also design their own passive pre-amps, volume pots, caps etc. believe me, these are very experienced guys and weren't really impressed by some of his suggestions and adviced me otherwise. 

 These guys didn't design instruments for over 30 years but designed amps, components and tweaks/mods for over 30-40 years!

 Feel free to do as you please; i am not so convinced about roams knowledge or manners, neither are other professionals.


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont understand why he bought 3 bada if he reckon amp design is childplay. i would assume when he got his first bada, he would definitely open it up and laugh at it's circuit design? why would he go through all the trouble to buy a second and third bada? some1 care to explain ?_

 

To clarify, the 3 Badas passed through my hands for repairs and modifications. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Roam, 
 your remark about monkies was deeply offensive and entirely rascist, since you know full well that the amp is Chinese designed. In the UK you would almost certainly be facing a criminal charge for for 'incitement to racial hatred'._

 

My grandmother (god rest her soul) was Chinese. You can take your accusations of racism and blow them out you arse.

  Quote:


 Your work was with professional measuring equipment - all it had to do was be accurate - what the hell has that got to with sonics. 
 

Wrong. Again. Not that I'm surprised. Wide bandwidth, linearity, and low noise along with proper shielding & grounding were the key design elements in the instrumentation I worked on. Are you telling me the above somehow doesn't apply to audio?


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, probably not all modders are experienced as my professional modders.
 They mod, design and experiment on a daily bases with cheap and very expensive amps, cdplayers, dac's etc. I have total convidence they did a great job to maximize the sound of my bada.

 They also design their own passive pre-amps, volume pots, caps etc. believe me, these are very experienced guys and weren't really impressed by some of his suggestions and adviced me otherwise. 

 These guys didn't design instruments for over 30 years but designed amps, components and tweaks/mods for over 30-40 years!_

 

When your "professional modders" don't even install bleeder resistors in the power supply to drain it down and prevent fried parts, I seriously have to question their competance and professionalism. When they don't even realize that a 10k plate load on a tube with a ~9k plate impedance at the chosen operating point results in gross distortions and non-linearities, I know that they don't understand circuit design. When they don't know that grid-stop resistors on a 6SN7 are redundant and unnecessary I can be assured they're not exactly bright. No competant designer would make moronic errors of that magnitude. Only slightly less stupid is the chosen operating point for the tube, around 4.7mA and 155 plate volts, which is barely in the 6SN7's linear region. Turning the volume up will push it towards cut-off where the tube goes non-linear, greatly raising distortion. Your "professional modders" didn't see this either, ergo, I maintain they are glorified parts swappers.


 With that said, the problem I have is lack of good designers in audio; there are only a handful of them. John Curl, designer of the Blowtorch preamp; Nelson Pass, of the eponymous amplifiers; John Atwood, whose designs you can see in the Artemis Labs line; Gordon Rankin, of Wavelength Audio; Allen Wright, of Vacuum State Hifi. Those are the good guys, solid technical design and great sounding gear, they are the ones I respect. You're not going to find any mainstream companies or modders who can build anything which sounds nearly as good as the equipment designed by those experts.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When your "professional modders" don't even install bleeder resistors in the power supply to drain it down and prevent fried parts, I seriously have to question their competance and professionalism. When they don't even realize that a 10k plate load on a tube with a ~9k plate impedance at the chosen operating point results in gross distortions and non-linearities, I know that they don't understand circuit design. When they don't know that grid-stop resistors on a 6SN7 are redundant and unnecessary I can be assured they're not exactly bright. No competant designer would make moronic errors of that magnitude. Only slightly less stupid is the chosen operating point for the tube, around 4.7mA and 155 plate volts, which is barely in the 6SN7's linear region. Turning the volume up will push it towards cut-off where the tube goes non-linear, greatly raising distortion. Your "professional modders" didn't see this either, ergo, I maintain they are glorified parts swappers.


 With that said, the problem I have is lack of good designers in audio; there are only a handful of them. John Curl, designer of the Blowtorch preamp; Nelson Pass, of the eponymous amplifiers; John Atwood, whose designs you can see in the Artemis Labs line; Gordon Rankin, of Wavelength Audio; Allen Wright, of Vacuum State Hifi. Those are the good guys, solid technical design and great sounding gear, they are the ones I respect. You're not going to find any mainstream companies or modders who can build anything which sounds nearly as good as the equipment designed by those experts._

 

led's in a signal path is a big nono for sound. Adding caps will alter sound, replacing 2.2 cap for a 1ufarad making the amp bass shy is of the same moronic magnitude.

 By the way, Tim de Paravinci is one of the best tube designers out there! Period.

 My bada sounds fantastic. With loads of tight, full bodied bass. I wouldn't have that if i would follow your advice.
 The powersection of the amp is even more important and has more impact then the things you do on the tubes! Stable, clean power is most important. You didn't address any of this.

 I will call of this stupid war with you; i will call it designer insights/preferences. Some differ from yours. Period!

 The only designer i respect here on head-fi is the one that works/worked for nasa and designs amps in his spare time for the head-fi community. Guess his amps are all crap too huh? 

 Guess nasa must have missed you!


----------



## Black Stuart

sacd lover,
 you may turn a blind eye to racism in the USA - we don't in Europe. This creep uses foul racist language and it's time the moderators stepped in and thew him off the forum.

 It comes as no surprise to me that he only mentioned American designers - xenophobia is always distasteful ands behoves decent Americans to come in and condemn him also - otherwise non-Americans will begin to think that you all have that attitude.

 All it takes for evil to triumph is that good men should do nothing.

 I personally will not take part further in this thread until Roam is removed permanently.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sacd lover,
 you may turn a blind eye to racism in the USA - we don't in Europe. This creep uses foul racist language and it's time the moderators stepped in and thew him off the forum.

 It comes as no surprise to me that he only mentioned American designers - xenophobia is always distasteful ands behoves decent Americans to come in and condemn him also - otherwise non-Americans will begin to think that you all have that attitude.

 All it takes for evil to triumph is that good men should do nothing.

 I personally will not take part further in this thread until Roam is removed permanently._

 

Racism? You have to be kidding. He referred to the Bada design as being poorly done. I am sure he would have had the same opinion if the circuit was designed by one of his preferred designers; like Nelson Pass. 

 Racism? Did you see him single out any particular race or ethnicity as incompetent? Like I said, he can be blunt and opinionated, but how is that racist? Are YOU looking to attack Roam personally so that somehow makes his opinion invalid? Your problem seems to be he has a lot of knowledge and he doesnt agree with you. Disagreements happen on this board all the time and I guess you have to learn to agree to disagree and get over it. 

 As for me, I didnt post to take sides. I pointed out Roam does know circuit design from personal experience. I advised you to look at what he is saying rather than reacting to how he states his opinion. The topic is the design itself and that is what I was interested in .... not drama and accusations. 

 I have never turned a blind eye to racism and never will. Maybe you should send me a pm and find out what I do for a living. So, please stop with your unfounded accusations and personal attack towards me. I would also suggest you become familiar with people in the USA before you start stereotyping all USA citiizens as racist .... based on one poster on an internet board.


----------



## Gradofan2

Black Stuart, you are certainly free to express your opinion based on your impressions - of a “Don Imus Moment” by Roam.

 However… your charges against Roam appear to be based on your personal inferences, rather than any specific implications by Roam that might be reflected in his comments. And even if you’re charges are warranted, what possible difference does his language make - other than to possibly reflect on Roam’s poor selection of adjectives to describe the attributes of the manufacturers and modifiers to which he was referring. If he intended such derogation, and perhaps used “crude language, or slang” to make his point - how does that really harm any of us. If so, it may reflect poorly on him, and it may influence our impressions of him, but it certainly doesn’t harm any of us - other than possibly offending those to whom he was referring - and… I’m sure they’ll survive such attacks. 

 Don Imus meant no harm in his “colorful” humorous comments - he was merely using parody (I.e. poking affectionate fun - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody) to obtain some chuckles. He wasn’t reflecting “racism, or sarcastic ridicule” in his comments about the Rutgers Women’s Basketball Team. He was merely using a form of humor, for which he’s become famous, much as Don Rickles, and others (not even as offensive as those are). And… even if he had meant his comments to be derisive - what possible difference would it have made, other than to “label” him as being crude and offensive. The Rutgers Women’s Basketball Team, who had demonstrated the confidence and stamina to rise to the top of their sport, certainly couldn’t have been legitimately harmed by his humor, although perhaps some of them could have been offended - but, I seriously doubt any of their egos are that fragile. So what - we’re each offended every day. It certainly didn’t justify his termination from MSNBC, or WABC, because of “PC” over-reaction. 

 It is unfortunate, that we increasingly see the gradual expansion… indeed… the “infection” of “PC Newspeak” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak) not only in the US, but also throughout much of the World - which unfortunately inhibits our personal freedom of speech and expression. This is a sinister trend that increasingly inhibits our open and frank communications, as well as compromises our values and principals. Although, crude and offensive language certainly can also be such a barrier to effective communications.

 Increasingly, we live in a World in which “black is white and white is black,” or more specifically, “good is evil and evil is good” - merely as the result of just such “intolerance,” actually promoted and justified by the pursuit, even the “imposition,” of so-called “tolerance,” by those who are increasingly “intolerant” themselves. 

 Personally, I would far rather encourage open, honest and free expression of personal opinion based upon one’s fundamental values and principles, rather than limit such expression through the arbitrary imposition of “PC” standards of what is appropriate and inappropriate speech and expression. How else can we really know the true values and principles of those with whom we are communicating, which we must have in order to honestly evaluate their communications, values and principles. We must have absolute and clear definitions of legitimate “right and wrong,” “good and evil,” and “consequences for our good, or evil actions” in order to maintain social order. “PC” sensitivities which limit free expression, and force “Newspeak” upon all of us, does nothing to enhance those fundamental requirements for maintaining social order. 

 Moreover… I think you’re charges about the “xenophobic US” are unjustified and unsupported. Yes… some of us may be just that, and some of us may be “crude, rude and self-absorbed,” some of us may be arrogant, and many of us… may not fully appreciate how “great we’ve got it,” or the sacrifices of those who have gone before us, who’ve enabled us to enjoy the “life” we have, which many others envy. But… no other Nation, or People, has given so much of their life, and treasure, in support of other Nations and Peoples, who aspire to the freedom and prosperity we so enjoy (among which your Nation and People are one)... but, which many of us often may not fully appreciate, because we’ve never experienced the hardships and limitations imposed on others, nor been called upon to make the personal sacrafices to attain and maintain such blessings that the sacrafices of others have bestowed upon us.

 Please forgive the sermon.


----------



## philodox

I didn't realize that to use an analogy was racism. Here in Canada, to say that something looks like it was designed by monkeys should certainly be taken as an insult, but has nothing to do with race or creed. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only designer i respect here on head-fi is the one that works/worked for nasa and designs amps in his spare time for the head-fi community. Guess his amps are all crap too huh?_

 

Who's that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I read through the last few pages here and am wondering how much of this argument is due to language barriers or people getting hot blooded and running off their mouths?

 Obviously replacing parts in an amplifier will change the sound. It is also quite obvious, to anyone who even has a basic understanding of tube design, that having proper values at the plate is critical. If there are problems with the safety of the power supply, clearly these should be addressed.

 Can't you both be right?


----------



## pjr300

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only designer i respect here on head-fi is the one that works/worked for nasa and designs amps in his spare time for the head-fi community. Guess his amps are all crap too huh? 

 Who's that? Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
Who's that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...

 

_

 

David Berning....


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_led's in a signal path is a big nono for sound._

 

If you actually knew something about electronics, you'd know the above is totally false. An LED when operated in the upper half of its rated current range presents a linear and low impedance AC current path. It fixes the DC bias of the tube while acting as a 10-20 ohm resistor for the AC signal. Combined with a CCS load it locks the tube into the middle of its linear operating region, minimizing distortion and maximizing bandwidth, gain, and power output capabilities.

  Quote:


 By the way, Tim de Paravinci is one of the best tube designers out there! Period. 
 

At his best he's quite brilliant, at times, I worry about him a bit. The V20 with its 20 12AX7s performing output tube duties falls under the latter heading.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It comes as no surprise to me that he only mentioned American designers - xenophobia is always distasteful ands behoves decent Americans to come in and condemn him also - otherwise non-Americans will begin to think that you all have that attitude._

 

Again, get your facts straight. I'm sure "Allen Wright" sounds American to you, but in fact he was born in New Zealand and currently resides in Europe. In other words, thanks for being an ignorant liar, again, but I've grown to expect that from you.

 By the way, I'm not American. I find it amusing how those who try to stereotype me as a racist American pig end up revealing their own racial prejudices. Funny how that works out.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you actually knew something about electronics, you'd know the above is totally false. An LED when operated in the upper half of its rated current range presents a linear and low impedance AC current path. It fixes the DC bias of the tube while acting as a 10-20 ohm resistor for the AC signal. Combined with a CCS load it locks the tube into the middle of its linear operating region, minimizing distortion and maximizing bandwidth, gain, and power output capabilities.



 At his best he's quite brilliant, at times, I worry about him a bit. The V20 with its 20 12AX7s performing output tube duties falls under the latter heading.



 Again, get your facts straight. I'm sure "Allen Wright" sounds American to you, but in fact he was born in New Zealand and currently resides in Europe. In other words, thanks for being an ignorant liar, again, but I've grown to expect that from you.

 By the way, I'm not American. I find it amusing how those who try to stereotype me as a racist American pig end up revealing their own racial prejudices. Funny how that works out._

 


 That's not what the other "experts' said to me. They clearly stated that a normal resistor will sound better then a led in a signal path, since that is closest to nothing in the path at all. Especially mills or some other good resistors are vertially not there. All i read is *BIG* alteration of sound with capitals. One of the reasons some bada owners won't even bother with mods: they like the bada the way it sounds right now! period.

 Further more, the front tube has the biggest impact on sound! If you take that one out, i have the idea you're tweaking the bada closer to a SS amp then a tube amp.

 The way i read it: you're designing a complete different amp with different sound signature. In that case i simply could buy another amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are basically two visions in amp design: one is perfect measuring amps and the other is perfect sounding amps. Most people don't like perfectly measuring components. Most of the time they sound sterile or lack any spirit. The other designs are tweaked to please the ear rather then the instruments and most people choose these designs over the other. The way i experienced it over the years is that you either have plenty of detail but lack musicallity or you have musicallity and lack a bit microdetail. There are followers for both designs. I've never heard one that was quite in the middle, so apperntly it is very hard to get both in a good amp design.

 My amp was modded to please the ear; i don't care for instruments since they are not listening to the amp or music!

 It's obvious you're quite full of yourself and you only see your opinion as the one and only truth!

 Such a shame nobody can buy your brilliant creations. Oh wait a minute, you can buy tim de paravinci's amps or any other good designers amps, just NOT yours.

 Guess this is quite a clue.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't realize that to use an analogy was racism. Here in Canada, to say that something looks like it was designed by monkeys should certainly be taken as an insult, but has nothing to do with race or creed.Who's that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I read through the last few pages here and am wondering how much of this argument is due to language barriers or people getting hot blooded and running off their mouths?

 Obviously replacing parts in an amplifier will change the sound. It is also quite obvious, to anyone who even has a basic understanding of tube design, that having proper values at the plate is critical. If there are problems with the safety of the power supply, clearly these should be addressed.

 Can't you both be right?_

 

As a matter afact i took the bada schematics to the modders and showed roams ideas of the bada and they clearly stated that the led idea wasn't their choice. They however incorporated the things for the tubes( resistors at the plates???), to make it more stable. So, if the bada isn't sounding good, it's also his fault!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Unfortunately i don't have the skills to evaluate wich modders are on the right track. All i can say is that the bada sounds much better, has the hd650 completely under control and the bass is much better then it was before( deeper and tighter)! NO bloated bass whatsoever. All i can say is that the 2.7ufarad cap sounds much better in the 2.2 position. The larger the cap, the better the low frequency responce and Venhaus didn't think it was a good idea to replace the 2.2 with 1ufarad but with the 2.7 for getting better low fequency responce. 1ufarad will get you a bass shy amp! That much i do know!

 Roam has to accept that different modders have different visions of how an amp should sound or how to accomplish the visions. hence the market floating with different sounding amps, one for every taste!

 If any, either way you look at it, IT was an insult. Period. Also calling me an arrogant spoiled brat because i don't concur with him is not the manners i would search behind a "brilliant" man but is rather childish!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pjr300* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_David Berning...._

 

Guess we have 2 nasa experts on head-fi then.

 I ment Dr. Kevin Gilmore, he was designer for complex nasa electronics and designs amps in his spare time. He can disect any amp with laser precision. At least, when he doesn't agree on an amp design, shows some respect for "his" colleges.

 I completely agree with Stuart that Roam crossed the line in being TOO personal on certain occassions and using faul or insultive language!

 It's just a vision, not a written law. I would expect some respect for other head-fiers opinions! That's what we do in this thread; sharing ideas and opinions, not making written laws.

 I will also make perfectly clear that the bada in its original state allready has a very good sound. If you only want more of the good things of the bada, you could do some "simple" mods.

 I am pretty convident to say that the amp designer wanted a pleasing sounding amp, not a perfect measuring amp, this is thus part of his vision, rather then incompatence of the amp designer!

 In defence of stuart;

 i clearly red in this thread that roam stated that he thinks all chinese designed amps were bad! and that those designers didn't know the were talking about. At least he suggested very strongly that *he* thinks they are all quite incompetent!

 True, there are bad sounding chinese amps, also true there are compared to the cost bad sounding european/american amps. For some european/american amps you would expect better sound for what you pay for!

 So, in that respect to the comment of monkey's, i can clearly see why stuart reacted the way he did!
 Don't underestimate china, it is the fastest growing economy and they have quite competent people(chinese studying on the worlds best universaty's. Also some chinese amp designs won international prices for sound quality! Labour and part costs are cheap in china, so you get a better price/performance ratio from chinese amps compared to most european or american amps. Better or same sound for less money!

 He might have editted some of his posts though.

 In defence of Roam;

 i do agree completely with roam that any new amp needs modding to sound best. This unfortunately also goes for expensive amps(even the very expensive high end amps) where economics where calculated into the sound; compromise cost/sound. Some high end amps have very cheap parts in them!(yet costing thousands of dollars/euro's).


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not what the other "experts' said to me. They clearly stated that a normal resistor will sound better then a led in a signal path, since that is closest to nothing in the path at all. Especially mills or some other good resistors are vertially not there. All i read is *BIG* alteration of sound with capitals. One of the reasons some bada owners won't even bother with mods: they like the bada the way it sounds right now! period.

 Further more, the front tube has the biggest impact on sound! If you take that one out, i have the idea you're tweaking the bada closer to a SS amp then a tube amp.

 The way i read it: you're designing a complete different amp with different sound signature. In that case i simply could buy another amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are basically two visions in amp design: one is perfect measuring amps and the other is perfect sounding amps. Most people don't like perfectly measuring components. Most of the time they sound sterile or lack any spirit. The other designs are tweaked to please the ear rather then the instruments and most people choose these designs over the other. The way i experienced it over the years is that you either have plenty of detail but lack musicallity or you have musicallity and lack a bit microdetail. There are followers for both designs. I've never heard one that was quite in the middle, so apperntly it is very hard to get both in a good amp design.

 My amp was modded to please the ear; i don't care for instruments since they are not listening to the amp or music!

 It's obvious you're quite full of yourself and you only see your opinion as the one and only truth!

 Such a shame nobody can buy your brilliant creations. Oh wait a minute, you can buy tim de paravinci's amps or any other good designers amps, just NOT yours.

 Guess this is quite a clue._

 

You know I dont know why I even commented as no one really wants to hear the truth. But, Roam is the one who does know what he is talking about and that is obvious. One, even I know if you dont want the amp to stop blowing mosfets using a simple bleeder resistor is an excellent idea.

 If you take out the front input tube the two second tubes become the input /gain tubes .... thus removing the second gain stage that was not necessary. Then both input/ gain tubes would have the same impact on the sound as the original single tube. 

 If you look at what Roam was trying to tell you about the tube ra values etc... used in the Bada ..... they are all wrong for a 6sn7. The circuit appears to have been designed for another tube and someone just decided to drop in a 6sn7 without changing the values to work with a 6sn7.

 He told you grid stoppers were a bad idea and they would not be necessary if the circuit was designed properly. 6SN7's rarely if ever need grid stoppers. They are likely in the amp to stop oscillation because the tube is being operated with incorrect values. If the amp will oscillate without grid stoppers for 6sn7's .... the amp has indeed been poorly designed. If not, the grid stoppers dont need to be in the circuit.

 Just because the amp will work does not mean the amp is working optimally .... and the amp is not working optimally. You may have have improved the sound but the amp will never sound as good as the amp could with the correct circuit implementation. I found this comment on the Bada on another website .....

 I've heard it, it's decent and performs at its pricepoint. The big problem is the electrolytic capacitor on the output which will mess up the sound, along with the 10k plate resistors on the 6SN7's in the cascode which are too low and will lead to excess distortion. Ideally, the plate resistors should be about 5-10 times the resistance of the tube's plate impedance, the Rp of a 6SN7 is about 7.7k. I'm guessing that the Chinese ripped off a 6DJ8 circuit and swapped in 6SN7's without bothering to fix the circuit.

 I have experienced this first hand with the Doge 6210. The input circuit in the 6210 is just totally screwed up. The circuit isnt even stable and once the amp warms up the output tubes will lose their correct bias. I spent $500 modding my first 6210 with blackgates caps, DH labs best internal wire, all new resistors, added power supply capacitance, the best teflon tube sockets and a TKD volume pot. The amp still wasnt much better sounding. Once the amp was rebuilt with a proper plate loaded input circuit the amp is just excellent.

 You would be wise to pay less attention to the messenger and look at the message. That is all I was trying to say from the beginning. Finally, I dont agree with Stuart's approach either. He was way over the top throwing out accusations of racism because Roam dissed the circuit. I was highly offended that he would stretch a comment about a monkey designed circuit into a racist comment and then point to me as accepting racism. Monkey designed clearly referred to the fact the circuit was poorly done and had nothing to do with race. IMO ... Stuart was looking to be offended so he could attack Roam personally because he could not deal with Roams knowledge.

 So, I say we get back to the original topic and stop all the hating.


----------



## pjr300

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.......So, I say we get back to the original topic and stop all the hating._

 

Agreed. I think all that can be said has now been said. 'Nuff said.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I dont know why I even commented as no one really wants to hear the truth. But, Roam is the one who does know what he is talking about and that is obvious. One, even I know if you dont want the amp to stop blowing mosfets using a simple bleeder resistor is an excellent idea.

 If you take out the front input tube the two second tubes become the input /gain tubes .... thus removing the second gain stage that was not necessary. Then both input/ gain tubes would have the same impact on the sound as the original single tube. 

 If you look at what Roam was trying to tell you about the tube ra values etc... used in the Bada ..... they are all wrong for a 6sn7. The circuit appears to have been designed for another tube and someone just decided to drop in a 6sn7 without changing the values to work with a 6sn7.

 He told you grid stoppers were a bad idea and they would not be necessary if the circuit was designed properly. 6SN7's rarely if ever need grid stoppers. They are likely in the amp to stop oscillation because the tube is being operated with incorrect values. If the amp will oscillate without grid stoppers for 6sn7's .... the amp has indeed been poorly designed. If not, the grid stoppers dont need to be in the circuit.

 Just because the amp will work does not mean the amp is working optimally .... and the amp is not working optimally. You may have have improved the sound but the amp will never sound as good as the amp could with the correct circuit implementation. I found this comment on the Bada on another website .....

 I've heard it, it's decent and performs at its pricepoint. The big problem is the electrolytic capacitor on the output which will mess up the sound, along with the 10k plate resistors on the 6SN7's in the cascode which are too low and will lead to excess distortion. Ideally, the plate resistors should be about 5-10 times the resistance of the tube's plate impedance, the Rp of a 6SN7 is about 7.7k. I'm guessing that the Chinese ripped off a 6DJ8 circuit and swapped in 6SN7's without bothering to fix the circuit.

 I have experienced this first hand with the Doge 6210. The input circuit in the 6210 is just totally screwed up. The circuit isnt even stable and once the amp warms up the output tubes will lose their correct bias. I spent $500 modding my first 6210 with blackgates caps, DH labs best internal wire, all new resistors, added power supply capacitance, the best teflon tube sockets and a TKD volume pot. The amp still wasnt much better sounding. Once the amp was rebuilt with a proper plate loaded input circuit the amp is just excellent.

 You would be wise to pay less attention to the messenger and look at the message. That is all I was trying to say from the beginning. Finally, I dont agree with Stuart's approach either. He was way over the top throwing out accusations of racism because Roam dissed the circuit. I was highly offended that he would stretch a comment about a monkey designed circuit into a racist comment and then point to me as accepting racism. Monkey designed clearly referred to the fact the circuit was poorly done and had nothing to do with race. IMO ... Stuart was looking to be offended so he could attack Roam personally because he could not deal with Roams knowledge.

 So, I say we get back to the original topic and stop all the hating._

 

So what. If you don't like the bada, get another amp. I am pleased with the mods as they are right now. Sound wise there isn't much to gain. And i haven't blown a fet yet, not even after switching tubes after just half an hour.

 To bad the bada isn't hard wired, that way it is much easier to correct anything necessary.

 The problem is that not all designers agree with him and i had them have their way with the bada. I am not in a position to judge wich one is on the right path. Maybe Dr. gilmore should have a look at the bada. But it might be that he is also having other ideas then roam. fact is that roam can't take any critics and starts getting abusive or insultive easally.

 I might have another 'expert' look at the bada.

 The bada is by the way sounding much better then it did before. So maybe they changed more then there is to it at the naked eye? I heard them speak of the schematics being not accurate and they measured different things. it might be they corrected also values for the resistors since these also where replaced near the tubes. 

 The only way to know for sure is if roam sent me his modded bada so i could compare both and see wich one is sounding best. Or i could send my bada to roam and have him his way with it and put his mouth where the money is.

 He can count on an honest review, if my bada would sound better afterwards i honestly would say that. All i want is optimal sound. 

 edit: 
 reading what you're saying, i am beginning to understand what you're trying to say about the input tubes. but aren't the 2 in the back used for push pull design? so the first tube is using the other 2 for push pull, each one half? his way would save one tube though and i could use the 2 sylvania w's wich are to date the best 6sn7's i heard thus far.

 If somebody would be willing to do the job, i am more then willing to send the bada to him. I lack the knowledge to completely redesign the bada, the components are all class a allready, so if something more needs to be done, i need some help with that. Or take me trough the process by using my pictures of the mod and precisely telling me what to do and where. Al i want to prevent is to completely mess up the bada, since it allready cost me an arm and a legg to mod it thus far!

 please understand my position, i am between fires.....two modders designers with different views, so it is hard for me to decide wich one is right or what to combine to come to the best configuration posible.

 On defence of Stuart: i read earlier posts of roam and he clearly stated that he didn't think much of the chinese designers/ amps. the message wasn't only adressed at the amp(s) but clearly also at the person behind the amp.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what. If you don't like the bada, get another amp. I am pleased with the mods as they are right now. Sound wise there isn't much to gain. And i haven't blown a fet yet, not even after switching tubes after just half an hour.

 To bad the bada isn't hard wired, that way it is much easier to correct anything necessary.

 The problem is that not all designers agree with him and i had them have their way with the bada. I am not in a position to judge wich one is on the right path. Maybe Dr. gilmore should have a look at the bada. But it might be that he is also having other ideas then roam. fact is that roam can't take any critics and starts getting abusive or insultive easally.

 I might have another 'expert' look at the bada.

 The bada is by the way sounding much better then it did before. So maybe they changed more then there is to it at the naked eye? I heard them speak of the schematics being not accurate and they measured different things. it might be they corrected also values for the resistors since these also where replaced near the tubes. 

 The only way to know for sure is if roam sent me his modded bada so i could compare both and see wich one is sounding best._

 

Once again you are letting your anger override your brain. You arent even reading what is said. I dont have a Bada. I have a 6210. The 6210 is the amp Roam diagnosed the circuit problems for.

 Roam doesnt have a Bada .... he repaired three for other people. Now speaking of experts, just because someone else doesnt agree with Roam doesnt mean he lacks knowledge. Furthermore, Roam has actually had a Bada in his possession, listened to the amp and then repaired and/ or modified the Bada. Have your experts ever examined the Bada in person, listened to the Bada or worked on the Bada? If not, who is the one with more practical experience.

 No one ever said your amp doesnt sound better with your mods. All that has been said is the Bada could sound better still with an improved circuit implementation. I hope you do ask kevin Gilmore for input. 

 Here is the circuit ....


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sacd lover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once again you are letting your anger override your brain. You arent even reading what is said. I dont have a Bada. I have a 6210. The 6210 is the amp Roam diagnosed the circuit problems for.

 Roam doesnt have a Bada .... he repaired three for other people. Now speaking of experts, just because someone else doesnt agree with Roam doesnt mean he lacks knowledge. Furthermore, Roam has actually had a Bada in his possession, listened to the amp and then repaired and/ or modified the Bada. Have your experts ever examined the Bada in person, listened to the Bada or worked on the Bada? If not, who is the one with more practical experience.

 No one ever said your amp doesnt sound better with your mods. All that has been said is the Bada could sound better still with an improved circuit implementation. I hope you do ask kevin Gilmore for input. 

 Here is the circuit ....




_

 

I am aware of the circuit schematics. The technician told me that the schematics weren't very accurate and he measured other things!

 They have listened to the bada before the mod and they optimized the bada for sound.

 The modders have more then 30 years of modding, designing and designing high end audio parts! I am quite convident they know exactly what the schematics are!

 ofcourse thay had the bada in their posession, otherwise how would they be able to do the mods?! And they listen in between parts to optimize sound.

 I left the schematics with the bada and also the print of roams ideas with the tubes. So, i think they did the resistor part roam first suggested?!

 They just didn't agree with the led's part.

 If roam would posess a bit better communication skills, one might even pay attention to his ideas.

 This is one of the examples i am talking about:
 "As for my real name, past experience with *insecure deranged audio nuts *has led to a policy of keeping it to myself. My wife does not care to find another envelope in the mail containing rambling incoherent threats against me.

 Also he isn't really helping either, is he. he can take a look at my pictures and tell me exactly on the picture what to do.
 All he does is making bold statements about chinese designers and amps and people in this thread.

 So, if he would want to gain any trust, he has to tell exactly what to do on my pictures of the modded bada.

 furthermore, alot of people for instance think that the audio note stuff is badly designed yet alot of people like it and they think it sounds very good! I also heard quite some audio note stuff and while being badly designed, It still sounded better then alot of other stuff!


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am aware of the circuit schematics. The technician told me that the schematics weren't very accurate and he measured other things!

 They have listened to the bada before the mod and they optimized the bada for sound.

 The modders have more then 30 years of modding, designing and designing high end audio parts! I am quite convident they know exactly what the schematics are!

 ofcourse thay had the bada in their posession, otherwise how would they be able to do the mods?! And they listen in between parts to optimize sound.

 I left the schematics with the bada and also the print of roams ideas with the tubes. So, i think they did the resistor part roam first suggested?!

 They just didn't agree with the led's part.

 If roam would posess a bit better communication skills, one might even pay attention to his ideas.

 This is one of the examples i am talking about:
 "As for my real name, past experience with *insecure deranged audio nuts *has led to a policy of keeping it to myself. My wife does not care to find another envelope in the mail containing rambling incoherent threats against me.

 Also he isn't really helping either, is he. he can take a look at my pictures and tell me exactly on the picture what to do.
 All he does is making bold statements about chinese designers and amps and people in this thread.

 So, if he would want to gain any trust, he has to tell exactly what to do on my pictures of the modded bada.

 furthermore, alot of people for instance think that the audio note stuff is badly designed yet alot of people like it and they think it sounds very good! I also heard quite some audio note stuff and while being badly designed, It still sounded better then alot of other stuff!_

 


 If something sounds good being badly designed imagine how good that something will sound corrected with proper design .... and that is the point I keep trying to get across.

 He addressed the Bada circuit .... you and Stuart are the ones that keep harping about Chinese designers. He would NO DOUBT say the same thing about the circuit no matter who designed the circuit. Why cant you see that? Moreover, I do not know who your modder is .... but a modder is not necessarily a designer. Who are you referring to .... what modder?

 Roam did tell you what to do and what the changes would accomplish. I find his communication on the circuit very clear. How much clearer can he possibly be?

 1) Run a wire straight from the volume control to U7. Remove R11, 12, 13, 14, and 15. Remove C21 and U6.

 2) Replace R17 with a 10-15mA yellow LED.

 3) Replace R16 with an IXCP 10M90S (used as a CCS). Set it to flow 8-10mA.

 4) Replace the wire between U7 and U8 with a 0.22uF capacitor.

 5) Place a 470k resistor with one lead between U8 and the 0.22uF capacitor, and the other lead between U8 and R18.

 6) Install bleeder resistors on C19 and C23. Use 100k-200k for C19 and 20k-40k for C23.


 What does this accomplish?

 1) Greatly improved linearity, lowered distortion, far more headroom before clipping.

 2) Cooler running, an entire tube has been removed.

 3) Improved channel separation. Each channel has its own tube, there are no shared tubes between channels.

 4) The charge in the capacitors will be bled down after the amp is turned off. Prevents stored charge and fried parts.


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not what the other "experts' said to me. They clearly stated that a normal resistor will sound better then a led in a signal path, since that is closest to nothing in the path at all. Especially mills or some other good resistors are vertially not there._

 

Because 12dB of totally unnecessary and poorly implemented negative feedback in each gain stage is a great thing! 

  Quote:


 There are basically two visions in amp design: one is perfect measuring amps and the other is perfect sounding amps. Most people don't like perfectly measuring components. Most of the time they sound sterile or lack any spirit. The other designs are tweaked to please the ear rather then the instruments and most people choose these designs over the other. The way i experienced it over the years is that you either have plenty of detail but lack musicallity or you have musicallity and lack a bit microdetail. There are followers for both designs. I've never heard one that was quite in the middle, so apperntly it is very hard to get both in a good amp design. 
 

I've honestly lost track of how many times I've heard this repeated as if it were truth. It isn't, at least, not for designers who know what they're doing. You're in Europe, go listen to any one of Allen Wright's Vacuum State designs.

  Quote:


 edit: 
 reading what you're saying, i am beginning to understand what you're trying to say about the input tubes. but aren't the 2 in the back used for push pull design? so the first tube is using the other 2 for push pull, each one half? his way would save one tube though and i could use the 2 sylvania w's wich are to date the best 6sn7's i heard thus far. 
 

I'd highly suggest putting the shovel away before you dig yourself an even deeper hole. The 2 tubes in the back consist of the 2nd part of the cascode gain stage direct-coupled to a cathode follower. It is all single-ended, there is no push-pull. People who can't read a schematic should not presume to lecture others on circuit design.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People who can't read a schematic should not presume to lecture others on circuit design._

 

True, but the professionals do. And they adviced me otherwise. Period.

 I am still in the learning proces. The more i look at the schematics and ask people how it works, the more i learn. You didn't learn everything in a day didn't you!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 People who don't mod expensive amps, design their own high end caps, design tube stages, potmeters, resistors on a daily bases, should not presume to lecture people who have 30 or more years experience of designing, modding and constructing audio equipment.

 You might have some knowledge of schematics but i still have the feeling you don't have any idea of wich component does what to the sound in a certain position in an amp. And that is my opinion! Also of some professionals. And i tend to agree with them.

 As anything in life, *taste is personal*. You just have to *accept* that *some people *like the sound of badly designed amps ( in your opinion). Period.

 If everyone would like the same amp, we wouldn't have such a variety of amps and sources around, wouldn't we. They are created with the designers taste and how *he* thinks things should sound.


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, but the professionals do. And they adviced me otherwise. Period._

 

Your so-called "professionals" who never bothered to look at the load lines for the 6SN7, and who are running the tube at a non-linear operating point.

  Quote:


 People who don't mod expensive amps, design their own high end caps, design tube stages, potmeters, resistors on a daily bases, should not presume to lecture people who have 30 or more years experience of designing, modding and constructing audio equipment. 
 

A single output tranformer on my headphone amp is worth roughly twice as much as the Bada PH-12. The parts cost on my amp, which I designed and built is around $5000. I've had a Shindo amplifier come through my home for repairs. I've rebuilt the circuitry for a couple Manley Reference DACs including my own. Oh, I forgot, I also have over 30 years of experience building, repairing, and modifying all sorts of audio equipment from open reel tape machines to phono amps, speakers and power amps.

  Quote:


 You might have some knowledge of schematics but i still have the feeling you don't have any idea of wich component does what to the sound in a certain position in an amp. And that is my opinion! Also of some professionals. And i tend to agree with them. 
 

And it's my opinion that your so-called professional advisors are glorified parts swappers who aren't qualified to polish my shoes. They're overly concerned with Blackgates & teflon, and completely ignore the fact that the tubes are being run into both saturation and cut-off thanks to the load-line opening up into a wide ellipse.


----------



## pjr300

I was hoping that the last month or so of this thread would have been destoyed in the outage, but no such luck.

 Let's set some ground rules from this point on. Can we leave this thread for discussing stock amps -- products available to us consumers with using the services of some "genius" to modify it into audio nirvana? I think it serves the intent and purpose of this thread, as well as the need of the Head-Fi members, if we can proceed in that manner. 

 If you want a new thread in the DIY forum about how to most effectively mod a Bada, then I suggest starting one. Also, if you want to continue calling each other names, start a thread in the lounge for that purpose. 

 I think this approach will be much more focused and civil. Thanks...


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your so-called "professionals" who never bothered to look at the load lines for the 6SN7, and who are running the tube at a non-linear operating point._

 

And? you're gonna tell me what i can do about that? 





  Quote:


 A single output tranformer on my headphone amp is worth roughly twice as much as the Bada PH-12. The parts cost on my amp, which I designed and built is around $5000. I've had a Shindo amplifier come through my home for repairs. I've rebuilt the circuitry for a couple Manley Reference DACs including my own. Oh, I forgot, I also have over 30 years of experience building, repairing, and modifying all sorts of audio equipment from open reel tape machines to phono amps, speakers and power amps. 
 

So basically you're saying anything under 5000 isn't worth looking at or listening to. They also adviced me to replace the transformer for one of their own custom made transformers indeed costing much more then the bada alone but it suppose to bring the bada even more alive. I understand a transformer is really important for tubes.







  Quote:


 And it's my opinion that your so-called professional advisors are glorified parts swappers who aren't qualified to polish my shoes. They're overly concerned with Blackgates & teflon, and completely ignore the fact that the tubes are being run into both saturation and cut-off thanks to the load-line opening up into a wide ellipse. 
 


 You're entitled to your opinion and i am to mine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, have a look at those pictures and tell me exactly what i have to do to make the tubes linear. I have basic/slightly advanced skills.











 One other question for ya roam, what are those silver shiny caps doing at the base of the tubes?


----------



## deaconblues

OK, let's take this discussion in a different direction...

 That godawful fan is driving me nuts with its constant droning. A noisy fan and tube microphonics do not make a happy combo. I also suspect that it's not the most effective cooler. Anyone have suggestions for quieting down my bada?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deaconblues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, let's take this discussion in a different direction...

 That godawful fan is driving me nuts with its constant droning. A noisy fan and tube microphonics do not make a happy combo. I also suspect that it's not the most effective cooler. Anyone have suggestions for quieting down my bada? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, i use 2 x 12 cm fans under the bada. it is after hours of operation icy cool. The nice thing with my and Stuart's setup is that you can set the fanspeed to your liking, so you can adjust soundproduction/cooling! The papst fans can operate between 7 and 14 volts!


----------



## pataburd

The driver tube (a NOS Hytron) failed during power up today. I am getting zero sound from either channel. Question: Will a blown driver tube necessarily translate into damaged MosFETs?

 Called Pacific Valve and asked how long do they recommend between tube rolls to avoid damaging the MosFETs. They answered 4-6 hours. I am tempted, after 5 hours, to change the driver tube, but will probably wait until tomorrow morning. 

 If one or both MosFETs blow this time (one already went several months ago for as-yet definitively unknown reasons), the Bada is history. As much as I like this amp, I simply can't afford to maintain it at this rate!


----------



## Roam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And? you're gonna tell me what i can do about that?_

 

Now, have a look at those pictures and tell me exactly what i have to do to make the tubes linear. I have basic/slightly advanced skills.[/quote]

 I've already explained how to use a CCS along with LED biasing to lock the 6SN7 into the middle of its linear operating range. 

  Quote:


 One other question for ya roam, what are those silver shiny caps doing at the base of the tubes? 
 

Filament snubbers. Helps prevent noise from the tube heaters from ending up in the audio circuit where they don't belong.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Roam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, have a look at those pictures and tell me exactly what i have to do to make the tubes linear. I have basic/slightly advanced skills._

 

 Quote:


 I've already explained how to use a CCS along with LED biasing to lock the 6SN7 into the middle of its linear operating range. 



 Filament snubbers. Helps prevent noise from the tube heaters from ending up in the audio circuit where they don't belong. 
 

Thanks for the explaination.

 Some day i hope i have the guts to try out your suggestion myself. As for now i have too much money in the bada to blow it up.LOL.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The driver tube (a NOS Hytron) failed during power up today. I am getting zero sound from either channel. Question: Will a blown driver tube necessarily translate into damaged MosFETs?

 Called Pacific Valve and asked how long do they recommend between tube rolls to avoid damaging the MosFETs. They answered 4-6 hours. I am tempted, after 5 hours, to change the driver tube, but will probably wait until tomorrow morning. 

 If one or both MosFETs blow this time (one already went several months ago for as-yet definitively unknown reasons), the Bada is history. As much as I like this amp, I simply can't afford to maintain it at this rate!_

 

I don't get it; i change tubes only after 30 minutes and i don't have any problems at all. The only thing that went wrong with the bada was when i modded the bada myself and a resistor got loose. No problems with changing tubes/fets whatsoever.

 The tantalums soldered directly to the caps might be bleeding the caps as well when not in use?

 When i shut down the bada and i put my headphone on, i still hear some noise comming from the amp, this means the caps are draining? After 30 minutes it's gone and totally silent.


----------



## pataburd

Thanks for writing, Tour. It was, thank God, only a failed tube, though. I re-tubed this morning w/1x RCA 6SN7GTB and everything is hunky-dory. : ) Am running 2x Mil-Spec CBS 6SN7GT w/the RCA . . . GTB and the sound is excellent. I like the 2x CBS even better than the 2x Raytheon 6SN7GT. : )


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, i use 2 x 12 cm fans under the bada. it is after hours of operation icy cool. The nice thing with my and Stuart's setup is that you can set the fanspeed to your liking, so you can adjust soundproduction/cooling! The papst fans can operate between 7 and 14 volts!




_

 

I bought a $10/110v, plastic, 6" Lasco 2-speed fan. It's angled right up along the backside of the Bada and constantly running on "low" when the amp is in use. Much quieter and much, much more effective than the internal fan. After 5-6 hours, the Bada feels tepid to the touch--no more "hamburger grill-like" surface heat, and lots more peace of mind w/overheating NOT being an issue anymore. 

 I'm convinced, too, that keeping the Bada cooled also contributes to a smoother, cleaner more open sound. : )

 See the picture in the link below:

Amazon.com: Lasko Personal Fan, 6" White: Home & Garden.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for writing, Tour. It was, thank God, only a failed tube, though. I re-tubed this morning w/1x RCA 6SN7GTB and everything is hunky-dory. : ) Am running 2x Mil-Spec CBS 6SN7GT w/the RCA . . . GTB and the sound is excellent. I like the 2x CBS even better than the 2x Raytheon 6SN7GT. : )_

 

Great to hear your bada is still in great shape.

 It's funny to hear we all have different tastes. I use 1 rca grey tube in front and 2 sylvania W's at the back. I tried 1 sylvania W in front as driver tube and i think it's the best tube i've ever heard. The air, width and depth was much better, also more detail. Unfortunately i haven't found a pair of tubes to go well with it in the back. I don't have that much tubes to try out.

 Would love to find a good pair to go well with the sylvania W.

 Stuart is trying some other russian tubes out, not cheap, in the realms of the sylvania w but suppose to be in the same high quality ballpark.

 Just keep the good stuff comming.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought a $10/110v, plastic, 6" Lasco 2-speed fan. It's angled right up along the backside of the Bada and constantly running on "low" when the amp is in use. Much quieter and much, much more effective than the internal fan. After 5-6 hours, the Bada feels tepid to the touch--no more "hamburger grill-like" surface heat, and lots more peace of mind w/overheating NOT being an issue anymore. 

 I'm convinced, too, that keeping the Bada cooled also contributes to a smoother, cleaner more open sound. : )

 See the picture in the link below:

Amazon.com: Lasko Personal Fan, 6" White: Home & Garden._

 

Well, at least it cools down the bada. Our version is a bit more versatile, but the idea is the same; cool the tubes and the fets.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Told ya. Much better sound. The tubes are colder, lasting longer(well, not in your case though) and the fets work more efficient that translates into better sound.

 I am convinced, also Stuart, that every tube amp needs active cooling.

 My 2 fan design seems more effective though, since the bada really feels icy coold( like a cool bottle of milk taking out of the fridge) to the touch even after 3 hours of operation. It completely cools down the bada (when hot) in just a few minutes. I use the 2 fans at 12 volts. Even when i would use only 7 volts, they would more then adequate to cool the bada completely, yet much less noise. Sometime i will try out the 7 volts setting.


----------



## pataburd

Just put 3x Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tall bottles into the Bada: clean, dynamic and balanced, IMHO. : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just put 3x Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tall bottles into the Bada: clean, dynamic and balanced, IMHO. : )_

 

Great. Stuart will try out the russians as soon as he gets them. I will try 3 w's in the bada some time. I feel the sylvania w is the best 6sn7 around. So, logically, the only way to drive them well is with a w in front as well, just like your 3 tung sol's.

 The older tung sol's suppose to be even better.


----------



## t/sound

Good day all interested in things Bada ph12. Recently bought new version export ph12 from Cattylink, claims improved. Only differs in tubes as I could see, E/harmon 6sn7 x2 and e/harmon gold pin input. All Russian, sounds good, well better than original with Shugang tubes anyway. Does anyone know if other mods have been done by Bada given the mod suggestions made?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *t/sound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good day all interested in things Bada ph12. Recently bought new version export ph12 from Cattylink, claims improved. Only differs in tubes as I could see, E/harmon 6sn7 x2 and e/harmon gold pin input. All Russian, sounds good, well better than original with Shugang tubes anyway. Does anyone know if other mods have been done by Bada given the mod suggestions made?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Guess not. They allready shipped international versions with different tubes then the chinese versions! So, i am harpressed to believe they changed anything to the amp, just switched tubes!

 Stuart and i are still working on some tube combo's.


----------



## pataburd

Just got a Mullard ECC33 for a driver tube. Can't wait to try next week, God willing! : )


----------



## jgonino

I am reviving this thread because I just ordered a PH-12. I am really looking forward to trying it out. I will be running it with the system shown in my sig. I think I am going to keep the tubes stock for now, and I will be going to walmart to get a cheap fan to keep things cool.


----------



## pjr300

Technicians be ready.


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jgonino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am reviving this thread because I just ordered a PH-12. I am really looking forward to trying it out. I will be running it with the system shown in my sig. I think I am going to keep the tubes stock for now, and I will be going to walmart to get a cheap fan to keep things cool._

 

The PH-12 turns the 701s into a musical beast..


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jgonino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am reviving this thread because I just ordered a PH-12. I am really looking forward to trying it out. I will be running it with the system shown in my sig. I think I am going to keep the tubes stock for now, and I will be going to walmart to get a cheap fan to keep things cool._

 

Congratulations, jgogino! The Bada PH-12/K701 combination should not dissapoint. With a decent after-market power cord (I'm using the MAC HC) and some tube rolls, the Bada will really earn its salt! : )


----------



## Headdie

Hi all, I've been to Pacific Valve for a PH-12 and noticed the new PH-31... Any feedback regarding this one?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all, I've been to Pacific Valve for a PH-12 and noticed the new PH-31... Any feedback regarding this one?_

 

No one on Head-Fi, to the best of my knowledge, has reported on the new PH-31 yet. It's less expensive than the PH-12 ($399 v. $550), uses one less 6SN7, has a built-in DAC, and was made primarily to host an MP3. For my particular application, I'm quite sure the PH-12 is the better choice. Now if Bada would re-issue the PH-12 with "improved circuitry," as boasted for the PH-31, I might consider the improved/updated PH-12. : )


----------



## jgonino

Bad news: I ordered a new PH-12 from Pacific valve, and then to my horror realized I had drastically over-paid! I see them selling on ebay for around $485 with shipping.

 I am attempting to cancel my order,and I am now looking to get an amp in the ~$1000 range.


----------



## jgonino

Alright, I am keeping the amp, and I now want to get new tubes to replace the stock ones. Which are the best three? Also, I would like to replace the power cable. It needs to be fairly cheap, and have a right angle connector at the amp.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great. Stuart will try out the russians as soon as he gets them. I will try 3 w's in the bada some time. I feel the sylvania w is the best 6sn7 around. So, logically, the only way to drive them well is with a w in front as well, just like your 3 tung sol's.

 The older tung sol's suppose to be even better._

 

Finally broke down and bought a pair of the Russian 6N8S/1578 with the metal bases and the "hole anode." Very nice! Especially with the ECC33. : )
 The 6H8C Russian Analogues sound very good, too (am running a pair with a Sylvania "Bad Boy," right now).


----------



## dgm

Just had a quick question about the Bada PH-12 (I'm 90% sure I'll be getting one pretty soon)...

 How long is the cord for the power supply unit that comes with it?

 ...that is, if the Bada comes standard with a dedicated PSU. God forbid I'd have to buy one separately.


----------



## t/sound

Hi all tube rollers and friends of Bada ph12. After evaluating 136 different combos, I have at last found something way ahead of second best.

 Brimar 1988 6SN7GTY nos matched pair brown bases and Brimar 1988 6SN7GTY nos black base. This group produces the best sound I have heard so far. The high freq's are smooth yet detailed and dynamic. The bass is dry, fast and deep without undue bloom. Soundstage huge and voices delectable amongst clear instruments. 

 I listen : Marantz sa11 s1/ audioqest colorado bada ph12 stock for sacd,
 / stereovox / bel canto dac 3 /bada for cd, AKG 701.
 Extensive power filters and silver raincoat ref cable. 

 Second best combo is nos Sylvania 1940 gta 6SN7 matched pair and 1950 Sylvania 6SN7 wgt nos. I have found EH gold pins x 3 dynamic but harsh. WGTx3 good but inner detail and stage only fair. 

 Next step is to mod one of my Bada ph 12's using some of the suggestions from this thread, and see if there are audible sound improvements.

 I have had much fun experimenting this way, at least I have worked out what I like and dislike, but to hear so many different sound signatures and variations from switching tubes, with the same basic Bada platform , demonstrate the majic of valves. 

 Wonder how my best sound combo would compare to the Darkvoice ref.


----------



## pataburd

t/sound,
 Thanks for queueing us into a nice tube compliment for the PH-12. Lately, I've been fighting the impulse to try the Mullard ECC32/CV-181 "s" glass up front.

 Also, like you, I am looking forward to trying two signal-coupling capacitor upgrades in the Bada (V-Cap teflon and V-Cap oil impregnated). : )

 Patrick


----------



## electropop

Don't kick my butt right away but i... have the grado sr325i's, and i like the sound generally, though they are a bit harsh.. And since they don't work on all albums, I have a pair of Senn hd650's to back them up. 

 So question. Is this the ph12 good amplifier for grado headphones? I listen to progressive fusion a lot and the hd650's are way too slow. 325i's have the necessary kick, but are fatiquing in the long run. I ran them through an old Sony stereo amp, and it smoothed the sound, if not smothered. But detail suffered a lot, as probably expected.

 Exchanging the tubes would do very little to the grados, since they are already quite "easy" to drive, and i am not a big fan of modding. (build a cmoy, got it working after hours of troubleshoot, and that's it)

 If someone here has any experience using grado's with this amp, and possibly changing tubes to alter the grado sound, please reply!

 Thank you very much

 -K


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't kick my butt right away but i... have the grado sr325i's, and i like the sound generally, though they are a bit harsh.. And since they don't work on all albums, I have a pair of Senn hd650's to back them up. 

 So question. Is this the ph12 good amplifier for grado headphones? I listen to progressive fusion a lot and the hd650's are way too slow. 325i's have the necessary kick, but are fatiquing in the long run. I ran them through an old Sony stereo amp, and it smoothed the sound, if not smothered. But detail suffered a lot, as probably expected.

 Exchanging the tubes would do very little to the grados, since they are already quite "easy" to drive, and i am not a big fan of modding. (build a cmoy, got it working after hours of troubleshoot, and that's it)

 If someone here has any experience using grado's with this amp, and possibly changing tubes to alter the grado sound, please reply!

 Thank you very much

 -K_

 

Pacific Valve & Electric dissuades PH-12 buyers from pairing the Bada with Grado headphones. However, I have driven the SR-325i with the PH-12, and with pretty good success. 

 Interestingly enough, and counter to your assumption, the relative success of pairing the PH-12 w/the SR-325i was rather tube sensitive, at least for me. I had the worst fortune with not-strictly-6SN7-equivalent tubes (e.g. the 1x Mullard ECC33 and 2x Russian 6H13C tubes produced distractingly audible hum and tizz when music was not being played, and an edgy, fatiguing quality when music was being played). 

 On the other hand, the 1x RCA 6SN7GT/grey glass and 2x RCA or Sylvania 6SN7GTB sounded excellent with the PH-12/325i combination, without (IMHO) imposing any undue slowness or checks on the 325i's adroit and detailed high frequency response. In short, I thought the Bada required at least one "lush" tube (i.e. in the driver spot) to do justice to the 325i. 

 I ultimately sold the 325i and kept the AKG K701 and K501, the latter two matching much better (and successfully supporting a broader range of tube compliments) with the Bada PH-12. With an RAL re-cable on the K701 and an APS re-cable on the K501, I don't feel like I'm missing anything--headphone-wise or headamp-wise--in my current set up. : )


----------



## mdg900

I'm also eagerly waiting for my Bada PH-12 to arrive! I also ordered a Keces DA-151 USB DAC and HD650s. Will be using it to listen to FLAC files.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mdg900* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also eagerly waiting for my Bada PH-12 to arrive! I also ordered a Keces DA-151 USB DAC and HD650s. Will be using it to listen to FLAC files._

 

Congratulations! And keep us posted with your first impressions. : )


----------



## nae45ro

I will chime in too as I recently ordered a Bada PH-12 from China through E-bay. For the moment my source is M-Audio Firewire audiophile and as headphones I'm using Beyers DT-880 '03 version. I've read the previous pages about the mods you've done to this amp but I'm completly newbie. If someone has very detailed pictures with the mods done regarding the tubes, capacitors, resistors...I would be very happy to see them here ! I will myself make some high-res pictures with my specimen ! Cheers !


----------



## nae45ro

Ok, amp is here so I'm going to make a first review. Build quality is good but I don't really like the plastic cover over the tubes wich was broken during transportation anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . I may design a nicer metal cover instead of that one ! Volume knob is not smooth at all and takes some effort to turn it. The tubes provided are Electron 6SN7GT made in China. I don't know if they are the same Shuguang you guys were talkin about. Now...about sound. Before this amp I was listening to my 880s directly from my M-audio audiophile firewire external soundcard. Sound was ok but somehow lacked dinamics, low end response and resolution. I only listened Bada for 1 hours till now and here's what I found out :

 High > A little harsh/aggresive and digital...I was very surprised to find out that high frequency was warmer on M-audio than Bada
 Midrange > The best part until now. Midrange is very neutral and spacious with a lot of ambience around instruments
 Low > low frequency response and extension are better with bada. Bass is tight but I can feel some strain on the lowest bass notes.

 Overally the amp has nice soundstage, ambience, dynamics but lacks some low frequency reproduction and overall refinement. Now, knowing the amp is not burned in and I'm using stock power chord and a really crappy interconnect things may really improve in the future !


----------



## pataburd

The plastic cover only impedes cooling of the tubes, most Bada PH-12 do not use the cover. With a power cord swap (I use a MAC HC or EVS PC100), better interconnect (I use EVS IC100) and a tube roll or two--plus allowing time for the Bada to burn in, your perceptions should be much different. Active cooling with an external 6-inch desk fan will help, too.

 If you are using the DT880/2005, you shouldn't expect the bass to go that deeply or dynamically, IMHO. My Bada drives the K701, K501 and K340 very well, with excellent bass reproduction. When I drove the Proline 750 and 2500 with the Bada, there was certainly nothing wanting in the bass department.


----------



## nae45ro

I have the 03' version of the 880s, not the '05.

 Ok, now I've opened the box. The little fan is a joke indeed. It has about 10mm depth and 40mm each side of the square. How did u fit a bigger one in diameter since even if I keep the 10mm depth of the small one it will touch some capacitors ? Did u space some more the entire metal back cover holding the cooler ?


----------



## nae45ro

To summarize a little the mods that have to be done regarding the capacitors > Stock capacitors have the following dimensions :

 2.2uF(250V) > L = 27mm, D = 13mm (should be changed for 2.7uF Mundorfs)

 1uF(250V) > L = 21mm, D = 10mm (should be changed for 1uF or 0.47uF Mundorfs)

 Now, I do have Mundorf's catalogue and I found the followings :

 MCap supreme > 0.47uF(800V), D = 20mm, L = 39mm, Recommended price = 12.32E
 MCap supreme > 1uF(800V), D = 20mm, L = 39mm, Recommended price = 14.72E
 MCap supreme > 2.7uF(800V), D = 30mm, L = 56mm, Recommended price = 19.02E

 MCap supreme silver/oil > 0.47uF(1200V), D = 26mm, L = 41mm, Recommended price = 23.32E
 MCap supreme silver/oil > 1uF(1200V), D = 31mm, L = 42mm, Recommended price = 31.42E
 MCap supreme silver/oil > 2.7uF(1200V), D = 41mm, L = 57mm, Recommended price = 43.84E

 MCap supreme silver/gold > 0.47uF(1200V), D = 26mm, L = 41mm, Recommended price = 36.60E
 MCap supreme silver/gold > 1uF(1200V), D = 31mm, L = 42mm, Recommended price = 47.48E
 MCap supreme silver/gold > 2.7uF(1200V), D = 41mm, L = 57mm, Recommended price = 68.64E

 MCap ZN > 0.47uF(630V), D = 20mm, L = 32mm, Recommended price = 6.98E
 MCap ZN > 1uF(630V), D = 22mm, L = 45mm, Recommended price = 9.68E
 MCap ZN > 1uF(250V), D = 30mm, L = 45mm, Recommended price = 14.64E

 MCap Audiophiler > 0.47uF(630V), D = 12mm, L = 25mm, Recommended price = 2.58E
 MCap Audiophiler > 1uF(630V), D = 16mm, L = 26mm, Recommended price = 2.96E
 MCap Audiophiler > 2.7uF(630V), D = 20mm, L = 34mm, Recommended price = 3.42E
 MCap Audiophiler > 1uF(250V), D = 11mm, L = 23mm, Recommended price = 2.42E
 MCap Audiophiler > 2.7uF(250V), D = 15mm, L = 28mm, Recommended price = 2.8E

 As u can see, most of them are much bigger in size than stock ones. Also what differences should one see between a 630V and 250V capacitor of the same uF ?

 Can u guys please post pics with the mods ?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the 03' version of the 880s, not the '05.

 Ok, now I've opened the box. The little fan is a joke indeed. It has about 10mm depth and 40mm each side of the square. How did u fit a bigger one in diameter since even if I keep the 10mm depth of the small one it will touch some capacitors ? Did u space some more the entire metal back cover holding the cooler ?_

 

I never had a problem with great bass from either DT880/2003 or the Bada.

 The fan I use is an EXTERNAL 6-inch Lasko desk fan. I aim it diagonally across the Bada whenever the amp is powered up. The Bada stays tepid to the touch and the micro fan never comes on.


----------



## nae45ro

Here are some pics with my specimen. I will first play with some interconnects and power wires. Then I'd like to replace the fan. For this I would keep the original location of the small fan, enlarge the hole to accomodate an 100mm or bigger fan. Problem will be to find a fan that big in diameter but very flat (<15mm) ! Afterwards I will continue with the capacitors and resistors change...


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are some pics with my specimen. I will first play with some interconnects and power wires. Then I'd like to replace the fan. For this I would keep the original location of the small fan, enlarge the hole to accomodate an 100mm or bigger fan. Problem will be to find a fan that big in diameter but very flat (<15mm) ! Afterwards I will continue with the capacitors and resistors change...








_

 


 Thanks for the pictures. 

 However, I believe that external cooling is the way to go. Much more efficient, quieter and probably cheaper (when you add up all your time fiddling with the chassis). A $10USD 6-inch "whisper-quiet" Lasko desk fan aimed diagonally across the Bada does the job. I position the Lasko on a shock-absorbing, soft rubber mat and place a weight on the base of the fan to anchor it down. Even after 7 or 8 hours of driving the power-hungry K340, the Bada remains, at most, tepid to the touch. 

 Even with the modified/enlarged internal fan (activated by the heat sensor) you propose, the Bada will still reach veritable grilling temperature before activation. Plus, I'm willing to bet, the modded micro-fan will propogate noise to your tubes via the chassis. The original, wee little micro-fan is terribly noisy and distracting despite its size. The Bada's internal cooling system is one of the amp's major, functional design flaws, IMHO.

 Tourmaline and Black Stuart have devised more sophisticated active cooling systems that have been well-documented--and well-attested to--on this very thread. 

 Congratulations! And enjoy this fine headphone amplifier. : )


----------



## nae45ro

Thank you Pataburd. The thread is indeed well documented but I'd like some more pictures. Ca u put one with your fan and amplifier ? Aestetics also matters a lot for me !


----------



## hornet

Hello everybody, following my reading this thread I recently joined the club of Bada PH-12 enthusiasts, as I ordered one on Ebay and got it a week later. Unfortunately after a couple of hours of happy listening (I coupled it w my k701) the amp started to crackle, followed by a loud buzz on both channels. I tried w different tubes but didn't help. The buzz comes out even when the amp is disconnected from the source. The dealer is ready to replace it but sending it back to China would cost me a lot of dough.... As I love the amp (it sounded really nice, I expect great things from a bit of modding) and as it is likely to be something easy to fix I would do it by myself if someone could give me some hints about where to start from.... My guess is that it might be the large caps near the power source, but I am not so sure....


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everybody, following my reading this thread I recently joined the club of Bada PH-12 enthusiasts, as I ordered one on Ebay and got it a week later. Unfortunately after a couple of hours of happy listening (I coupled it w my k701) the amp started to crackle, followed by a loud buzz on both channels. I tried w different tubes but didn't help. The buzz comes out even when the amp is disconnected from the source. The dealer is ready to replace it but sending it back to China would cost me a lot of dough.... As I love the amp (it sounded really nice, I expect great things from a bit of modding) and as it is likely to be something easy to fix I would do it by myself if someone could give me some hints about where to start from.... My guess is that it might be the large caps near the power source, but I am not so sure...._

 

Could be a non-120 voltage power supply. I talked with Pacific Valve & Electric (a U.S. distributor for Bada) and they informed me that they order the PH-12 with a special power supply that guarantees 120 volts. Could be a failed power cap, too, I suppose.


----------



## hornet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could be a non-120 voltage power supply. I talked with Pacific Valve & Electric (a U.S. distributor for Bada) and they informed me that they order the PH-12 with a special power supply that guarantees 120 volts. Could be a failed power cap, too, I suppose._

 

Thanks for the prompt response! I live in Europe (Italy) so I use 220 volts by default. For the caps, I am wondering how to test them, I gather that testing electrolytic caps cant be done with a DMM.


----------



## nae45ro

Ok, I connected the Bada to the Cambridge Audio 640 and now it's a totally different beast. It sounds much better than with the M-audion firewire audiophile. Could it just be that the DAC of the M-audio is crappy ?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you Pataburd. The thread is indeed well documented but I'd like some more pictures. Ca u put one with your fan and amplifier ? Aestetics also matters a lot for me ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Sorry, I haven't a digital camera for incriminating shots of my Lasko external cooling system. Suffice to say, though (in a word picture): "aesthetically pleasing it ain't." : )

 Well, there's a price to pay for audiophile nirvana!


----------



## nae45ro

So...because I see no picture in this thread, I will have to ask you guys to confirm me if these are the capacitors and resistors to replace > u can see them circled in black on the picture :





 Also, what happens if I use 400V, 630V, 800V...instead of 250V for the stock Solens ? What was the best value you found for the resistors ?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...because I see no picture in this thread, I will have to ask you guys to confirm me if these are the capacitors and resistors to replace > u can see them circled in black on the picture :





 Also, what happens if I use 400V, 630V, 800V...instead of 250V for the stock Solens ? What was the best value you found for the resistors ?_

 

As long as the capacitors are rated at least 250v, which is the spec for the amp itself, I believe, you're O.K. 400v is O.K., but 175v wouldn't be O.K., AFAIK. Make sure you have room--the Mundorfs are huge!

 : )


----------



## nae45ro

The audiophilers are a little bigger but the very expensive M-cap silver/oil are almost impossible to fit there ! I'm also wondering if the difference in price (M-cap is 10 times more expensive than audiophiler) is worth sound quality wise !


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everybody, following my reading this thread I recently joined the club of Bada PH-12 enthusiasts, as I ordered one on Ebay and got it a week later. Unfortunately after a couple of hours of happy listening (I coupled it w my k701) the amp started to crackle, followed by a loud buzz on both channels. I tried w different tubes but didn't help. The buzz comes out even when the amp is disconnected from the source. The dealer is ready to replace it but sending it back to China would cost me a lot of dough.... As I love the amp (it sounded really nice, I expect great things from a bit of modding) and as it is likely to be something easy to fix I would do it by myself if someone could give me some hints about where to start from.... My guess is that it might be the large caps near the power source, but I am not so sure...._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could be a non-120 voltage power supply. I talked with Pacific Valve & Electric (a U.S. distributor for Bada) and they informed me that they order the PH-12 with a special power supply that guarantees 120 volts. Could be a failed power cap, too, I suppose._

 

BS - no special power supply available. Pacific Valve gets the very same 120 volt amp as Cattylink (or any other Chinese company) supplies.

 The power supply is the exact same in 220V European and 120V USA models, except for the power transformer (big black dome on top). This is either a 120V or 220 V transformer, only made by Bada, with no special versions.

 Pacific Valve should be ashamed of saying they have special models when they don't. This is the same BS that Codt was spreading about the Doge 6210 in saying Pacific Valve models were different (with better materials) than the models from Cattylink. I exposed more of Codt's lies on the Doge 6210 thread before the site moderators shut the thread down.

 I get hum and buzzing from a bad (shorted) input tube (the front one) that goes away as soon as I replace the bad tube. Sounds like you may have a short from the HP connector though.


 [size=large]Never remove a tube from the Bada 12 until the amp has been off continuously for 24 hours or more.[/size]

 The use of Shuguang tubes all around is bad - the Shugaung tubes are great when combine dwith other brands however - see my tube recommendations earlier in this thread.


----------



## nae45ro

Art, on my tubes it says "Electron" Are tehy the same Shuguang or they've changed them on newer models?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...because I see no picture in this thread, I will have to ask you guys to confirm me if these are the capacitors and resistors to replace > u can see them circled in black on the picture :





 Also, what happens if I use 400V, 630V, 800V...instead of 250V for the stock Solens ? What was the best value you found for the resistors ?_

 

Correct.

 If you want a faster and cleaner sound, you could replace the caps in the powersection as well. I used black gates all through the powersections and high quality caps as coupler and powercap.

 Mine is totally moded, the powersections, resisters, caps, cables etc.

 The circles in blue are suggestions to bring the mod even to another level.







 you could either shunt the pot, or go for a new potmeter completely, as i did.
 But shunting the pot should do.

 The resisters gave Black Stuart and i some problems. We replaced them with welwyn military resisters.These are very good resisters. The caps in the powersection, i replaced with black gate Nh type 68Ufarad caps. As clean as it gets.

 You could replace the fuse for an ahp copper fuse or a furutech silver rhodium plug. I have those on my way and keep you guys posted about this one. The ahp made a nice and very noticable improvement in transparency, stage and detail. I sent pataburd one to try out, he will keep you posted as well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the inside of my completely modded bada:







 Nothing happens if you use 400-500-800 or 1200 volts version of caps in the bada. They are more likely higher end caps, so they can withstand more.

 The venhaus caps fit perfectly in there.

 Make the coupler caps 0,47ufarad. they don't have to be 1ufarad, as larger caps tend to be slow(er).

 Don't forget a good powercable or interconnect either!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BS - no special power supply available. Pacific Valve gets the very same 120 volt amp as Cattylink (or any other Chinese company) supplies.

 The power supply is the exact same in 220V European and 120V USA models, except for the power transformer (big black dome on top). This is either a 120V or 220 V transformer, only made by Bada, with no special versions.

 Pacific Valve should be ashamed of saying they have special models when they don't. This is the same BS that Codt was spreading about the Doge 6210 in saying Pacific Valve models were different (with better materials) than the models from Cattylink. I exposed more of Codt's lies on the Doge 6210 thread before the site moderators shut the thread down.

 I get hum and buzzing from a bad (shorted) input tube (the front one) that goes away as soon as I replace the bad tube. Sounds like you may have a short from the HP connector though.


 [size=large]Never remove a tube from the Bada 12 until the amp has been off continuously for 24 hours or more.[/size]

 The use of Shuguang tubes all around is bad - the Shugaung tubes are great when combine dwith other brands however - see my tube recommendations earlier in this thread._

 

I agree, the powertransformer is nothing special. I got the 220 volts version from pacific valve and it is the same as the 120 volts version.

 I guess they have to make bold statements like that to justify their higher price.

 You can however get custom made transformers, wich the local mod store suggested to me, but that's gonna be very expensive. The profit will be a more lifelike sound. I am not sure if it would be worth the money in this case, since my powersection is allready completely modded and the diffrence would be small, i think, with an expensive transformer.

 The caps IN the powersections are more important, since they filter the ac and dc in the amplifier.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I connected the Bada to the Cambridge Audio 640 and now it's a totally different beast. It sounds much better than with the M-audion firewire audiophile. Could it just be that the DAC of the M-audio is crappy ?_

 

 As always in audio: crap in, crap out.

 Only a totally modded bada let you hear that more clear and easier.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, i am only into xrcd, k2hd cd's and only good older cd recordings. Most of the modern cd's are completely crap and sound distorted.

 A good recording sounds better, a crap recording becomes so much more obvious.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as the capacitors are rated at least 250v, which is the spec for the amp itself, I believe, you're O.K. 400v is O.K., but 175v wouldn't be O.K., AFAIK. Make sure you have room--the Mundorfs are huge!

 : )_

 

You think so?! The russians are even bigger.

 for caps rolling, look into this thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/or...thread-284863/


----------



## nae45ro

Tourmaline, I have most of the XRCDs on the market and I specially prefer the ones from Clarity records. I'm listening to them from my CD-plyer but also through the M-audio on flac files. The difference is night and day as the M-audio fails to reproduce the most subtle nuances and dynamics of the Cambridge. It also has digital highs and some aggresivity on high and midrange frequencies. Now, with the CA everything comes to life but there's still to improve to my ear. Maybe all the changes that have been posted here will bring me to another level of sonic experience !


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, the powertransformer is nothing special. I got the 220 volts version from pacific valve and it is the same as the 120 volts version.

 I guess they have to make bold statements like that to justify their higher price.

 You can however get custom made transformers, wich the local mod store suggested to me, but that's gonna be very expensive. The profit will be a more lifelike sound. I am not sure if it would be worth the money in this case, since my powersection is allready completely modded and the diffrence would be small, i think, with an expensive transformer.

 The caps IN the powersections are more important, since they filter the ac and dc in the amplifier._

 

Yes, the power supply in the 220 V and 120 V models of the Bada 12 are exactly the same - except for the power transformer on top - one is a 120 V version and the other is a 220 V version. But this is the same whether you buy from Pacific Valve or anywhere else in the world.

 As you suggest, I would think it would be more important to mod the power supply than to replace the power transformer with a custom built one.

 My Bada 12s are all unmodded - I believe changing tubes affects the sound as much as modding.

 My system elevated to a new upper level when I added the HD 600 with Cardas cable. The stock Bada (with the right tubes) sounds absolutely great when matched to top components. It has never been a limiting factor in any instance of upgrading something in my system, but has instead allowed the improvement to show with obvious changes for the better.

 ICs, power cables, and power conditioning are important, BTW.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the power supply in the 220 V and 120 V models of the Bada 12 are exactly the same - except for the power transformer on top - one is a 120 V version and the other is a 220 V version. But this is the same whether you buy from Pacific Valve or anywhere else in the world.

 As you suggest, I would think it would be more important to mod the power supply than to replace the power transformer with a custom built one.

 My Bada 12s are all unmodded - I believe changing tubes affects the sound as much as modding.

 My system elevated to a new upper level when I added the HD 600 with Cardas cable. The stock Bada (with the right tubes) sounds absolutely great when matched to top components. It has never been a limiting factor in any instance of upgrading something in my system, but has instead allowed the improvement to show with obvious changes for the better.

 ICs, power cables, and power conditioning are important, BTW._

 

Believe me, changing crucial parts and caps makes a HUGE difference, more so then changing tubes, wich i also did.

 IC's and powercables make huge difference, powerfilters am not so convinced anymore since my powersections were modded! The unmodded bada sounded better with filtering (passive) and the modded bada (with the high end components) sound, much, much better unfiltered or the filtered unmodded bada! You can clearly hear that the filter is limiting the amp....

 Maybe only the very expensive regenerating powerfilters might help a bit.

 Good ac and dc filtering in an amp IS crucial! Not the patch before the amp, as a powerfilter is!


----------



## drarthurwells

Yes power conditioning can hurt the sound - power conditioners must be carefully selected. To me the biggest benefit is a silent black background against which sonic images clearly are focused.

 With no power conditioning there is a veil covering the background with a loss of transparency.

 Good power conditioning removes the veil of electric grunge - less is between you and the music - better transparency.

 One big benefit with a good IC is openness and better 3D imaging with more tone body clarity. The words of vocals embedded in complex instrumentation are more intelligible with a good IC.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes power conditioning can hurt the sound - power conditioners must be carefully selected. To me the biggest benefit is a silent black background against which sonic images clearly are focused.

 With no power conditioning there is a veil covering the background with a loss of transparency.

 Good power conditioning removes the veil of electric grunge - less is between you and the music - better transparency.

 One big benefit with a good IC is openness and better 3D imaging with more tone body clarity. The words of vocals embedded in complex instrumentation are more intelligible with a good IC._

 

I have no veil at all and the background is pitchblack! It is better without then with filtering. Also most poweramps wich allready have good internal filtering don't benefit at all from using expensive filters! As said, most of the time they limit the poweramp. The experts say that good internal filtering is always better and i tend to lean that way as well since i know how much impact it had on the bada!

 I agree, a good IC can make a huge difference.

 I tried some other IC's and plugs. Plugs have also quite an impact on how the IC sounds...warmer sound more body, less body, colder/thiner sounding etc. I tried this with 2 the same cores. copper and silver plug, quite a difference.

 I'll keep you guys posted on the furutech silver/rhodium fuse.

 I sent pataburd an ahp copper audiophile fuse, so you'll have his opinion as well on changing fuses.


----------



## drarthurwells

Got this from a Bada owner:

  Quote:


 The Bada now has about 20 hrs of playing and there's still some aggressivity to the highs with my DT-880 '03. 
 

If you can get an Electro Harmonix Gold (be sure it is the Gold) 6 SN7 for $20 USD that is great to use with two Chinese in back. However it will reveal problems in your system (source, cables, HPs or HP cables).

 Using all three Chinese will give you very aggressive highs - great detail and high resolution but tends to be lean and harsh, particularly with modest components.

 I use the Ken Rad GT with offset (staggered) plates (or the Electro Harmonix Gold) in front, with two Chinese in back. When I use either of these tube combo with the Sennheiser HD600 and its stock cable, in my top quality system, I get a lean detailed sound that is harsh, and shows glare, in rare instances. When I switch to the Cardas cable with the HD600, the harshness and leanness goes away and the sound is pure perfection. 

 I can send you a used but good testing Sylvania GTB and this is a smooth tube that may work better with modest equipment. You sacrifice some slight amount of resolution and 3-D imaging (and open instrument separation) compared to the two combos above, to gain the edge detail smoothness.


----------



## hornet

I got a new Bada from seller, at no shipping cost and a very discounted price (as an alternative to replacement) and I still hope that can fix the first one someday. I spent the whole weekend listening and swapping tubes (I have the three Chinese, two Russian nos, and a pair of Raytheon nos). The sound is already excellent but I still need to complete the K701 burn in, the Bada burn in, and to upgrade the power cord of the amp and the source (again a Bada). The cords will arrive shortly, and I will make a report as soon as I get them. Then I will proceed with caps and resistors replacement, following the thread's helpful suggestions, for further improvement. I am cooling the baby with a silent fan, not a Lasko but something similar, and it seems to be working fine.


----------



## pataburd

Dr. Arthur Wells! Long time, no see. 

 I re-purchased the HD600 with Cardas cable (I used to own these years ago) and you're right, these headphones do sound excellent with the Bada (right now w/1x Mullard ECC33 and 2x CBS 6SN7GT).

 At this moment, I am currently pairing the Bada with the Denon AH-D2000 and must admit that I like the Denon better on most selections. But that's just my preference. : )

 PAB


----------



## pataburd

Arghh! There goes another mosFET (the left one this time)!! 

 My office is moving and I, forgetfully, de-tubed the PH-12 too soon (less than 15 minutes after power down) in the rush to ready it for packing! : [

 Oh, well, another week or so without the Bada. Hopefully the local shop can do the fix within that time frame.

 If I were smart, I'd order the V-Caps and resistors right now for the basic mods, and thus kill two birds with one stone.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arghh! There goes another mosFET (the left one this time)!! 

 My office is moving and I, forgetfully, de-tubed the PH-12 too soon (less than 15 minutes after power down) in the rush to ready it for packing! : [

 Oh, well, another week or so without the Bada. Hopefully the local shop can do the fix within that time frame.

 If I were smart, I'd order the V-Caps and resistors right now for the basic mods, and thus kill two birds with one stone._

 

Sorry to hear that, pataburd.
 Good thing is that the mosfets are only 8 dollars a piece now.

 Yes, i would do that, if i were you. They can do it in the same timeframe as they have to replace the mosfets. This way you'd only pay for the repair of the mosfets....


----------



## Gradofan2

Is there a fix for the mosfet failure - other than allowing the amp to sit for several hours between tubes swaps (e.g. adding resistors, caps, or something to prevent their failure)???

 Are the mosfets that hard to replace - can't they just be de-soldered and new ones soldered in?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a fix for the mosfet failure - other than allowing the amp to sit for several hours between tubes swaps (e.g. adding resistors, caps, or something to prevent their failure)???

 Are the mosfets that hard to replace - can't they just be de-soldered and new ones soldered in?_

 

1) bleeder resistors, but they affect the sound!
 2) they can be desoldered and resoldered in.
 3) if you're happy with the way the bada sounds stock and you never pull a tube then there is no risk.


----------



## Billbrolse

I just ordered a new PH-12, and confronted the seller (Powerseller with a 100% profile on ebay) about the mosfet trouble. He said that Bada had fixed the problem by adding two diodes to protect the mosfet. Could that work/be true?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Billbrolse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a new PH-12, and confronted the seller (Powerseller with a 100% profile on ebay) about the mosfet trouble. He said that Bada had fixed the problem by adding two diodes to protect the mosfet. Could that work/be true?_

 

Maybe... 

 But... I'd still take care to allow plenty of time after shutting it down to replace the tubes and cables.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Billbrolse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a new PH-12, and confronted the seller (Powerseller with a 100% profile on ebay) about the mosfet trouble. He said that Bada had fixed the problem by adding two diodes to protect the mosfet. Could that work/be true?_

 

yes, probably.


----------



## pataburd

I am on the verge of finally ordering the cap upgrades for the Bada, but want to use the Mundorf M-Cap Supreme silver/oil. These are way too big for the existing chassis. What I am proposing is searching at the hardware store for a similarly threaded screw as the ones used to secure the bottom plate to the chassis, but about 1-1.5 inches longer. That way spacers can fit between the bottom plate and the edge of the chassis, effectively increasing the allowable capacitor diameter fitting inside (by the additional screw length).


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am on the verge of finally ordering the cap upgrades for the Bada, but want to use the Mundorf M-Cap Supreme silver/oil. These are way too big for the existing chassis. What I am proposing is searching at the hardware store for a similarly threaded screw as the ones used to secure the bottom plate to the chassis, but about 1-1.5 inches longer. That way spacers can fit between the bottom plate and the edge of the chassis, effectively increasing the allowable capacitor diameter fitting inside (by the additional screw length)._

 

Pataburd, get rid of the bottom plate all together. This way you can also much more efficently cool the components. You could also "dremel" out a piece of the bottom plate to make room for the caps.

 The silver mundorfs suppose to be really nice caps. These were the first caps i wanted in the bada, but due to seize problems i went with the venhaus oimps. These are also wonderful caps. They are about the same price as well.

 Stuart confirmed that the silver signal caps are lovely caps and really likes these caps.


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 To be honest, I don't like the idea of leaving the bottom completely exposed due to the increased risk of dirt/dust getting entrained--especially with the force of active cooling--on the circuits. Also, the bottom plate comes in handy for setting up isolation cones. If I can find some 1-1.5" screws that fit the bill, I think I'll go that way. : )

 Tour, you put in the 2.2uF Ven Haus OIMPs, right? I'm thinking about putting in a pair of 2.7uF instead. I may go with the Mundorf silver/oil for the 0.47uF cap replacements and the Mundorf ZNs for the 2.7uF replacements. 

 I need to order soon--I really miss the Bada; to my ears, it's a better match for both the D2000, and a much better match for the K501, than the Darkvoice 337.

 Oh! Those pesky mosFETs!!
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 To be honest, I don't like the idea of leaving the bottom completely exposed due to the increased risk of dirt/dust getting entrained--especially with the force of active cooling--on the circuits. Also, the bottom plate comes in handy for setting up isolation cones. If I can find some 1-1.5" screws that fit the bill, I think I'll go that way. : )

 Tour, you put in the 2.2uF Ven Haus OIMPs, right? I'm thinking about putting in a pair of 2.7uF instead. I may go with the Mundorf silver/oil for the 0.47uF cap replacements and the Mundorf ZNs for the 2.7uF replacements. 

 I need to order soon--I really miss the Bada; to my ears, it's a better match for both the D2000, and a much better match for the K501, than the Darkvoice 337.

 Oh! Those pesky mosFETs!!
 PAB_

 

No, on advice from venhaus himself, i put the 2,7ufarad caps in the bada for better low end.

 I dremmeld( a tool that can slice through metal) out of the bottom plate so i can directly cool the components or maybe later try out larger caps. But for now, i am really content with the silver signal/venhaus oimp combo.

 Don't worry about dust, since i use the 2 active fans, no dust has ever settled on the pcb, it is blown away!

 I told ya you would miss the bada.

 To soften your pain, my right channel is also blown again. Need to be fixed right after the holiday.


----------



## Gradofan2

"Just a word to the wise."

 And... I quote...

 "There is always a risk, diodes or not, when you pull a hot tube from a mosfet hybrid. We warn our customers of this, and the PH-12 repair rate (and we will get a big 4 accounting firm to audit this  ), in the 4 years that we have been selling this has been less than 0 .5 %.

 Pacific Valve"

 Not a terribly high failure rate... but...


----------



## pataburd

Final proposed replacements:

 2x 0.47uF/1200v Mundorf M-Cap Supreme silver/oil (for the 1.0uF Solens), 0.79x1.46 inches.

 2x 2.7uF/250v Mundorf M-Cap ZN (for the 2.2uF Solens), 1.18x1.77 inches.
 (I was thinking V-Cap OIMPs here. They're a bit smaller in diameter, but they cost $24 more apiece.)

 2x Mills 5W/15kOhm (for the 2W/15kOhm resistors).

 2x Tantalum 0.5W/50kOhm (for shunting the potentiometer).

 If anyone wants to comment, please do so soon. I want to order the parts by tonight. : )

 Thanks!
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Final proposed replacements:

 2x 0.47uF/1200v Mundorf M-Cap Supreme silver/oil (for the 1.0uF Solens), 0.79x1.46 inches.

 2x 2.7uF/250v Mundorf M-Cap ZN (for the 2.2uF Solens), 1.18x1.77 inches.
 (I was thinking V-Cap OIMPs here. They're a bit smaller in diameter, but they cost $24 more apiece.)

 2x Mills 5W/15kOhm (for the 2W/15kOhm resistors).

 2x Tantalum 0.5W/50kOhm (for shunting the potentiometer).

 If anyone wants to comment, please do so soon. I want to order the parts by tonight. : )

 Thanks!
 PAB_

 

Hi pataburd,

 For audio note tantalums you wanna go with the higher value. The higher the value, the better they sound, opposite to normal resistors! So, if you go audio note, i suggest you get the 2 watt versions. I got the 2 watt versions in the bada. Not to shunt the pot, but nevertheless.

 The vcap oimps just fit in the bada, without having to do anything to the chassis or the bottom plate, it's up to you. I reckon those mcaps are quite large and quite hard to fit in without tweaking the bottom plate!

 It's all up to you!

 Enjoy, you will be surprised what you've been missing before.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 One other thing, for shunting a 50K pot, most people use 47K resistors.

 P.s.
 Black Stuart went with the normal caps at first but changed to higher end caps in the end. If you can afford it, change the 2,7ufarad caps also to the higher standard silver in oil caps or go with the venhaus oimps! They are in the signal path and you want as high a quality as possible.

 Also, Stuart tried out ERSE pulse-X caps and he really liked these caps and are really not that expensive.http://www.erse.cc/caps/mpt/mpt.asp They only do a 2.2 though, not a 2.7ufarad capfor a 250 volts version, only costing about 5 dollars.

 As coupler caps, stuart is using the silver signal caps (like me) and he really likes these in that position. Not cheap though but about as good as it gets! If not better, at least on par with the audio note silver caps, costing more then 4times as much!

 I would suggest to get the best caps you can afford, mostly you only mod the bada once but you'll enjoy it for a long time. Sometimes going cheap will cost ya more in the end because you might end up later, like stuart, with the higher end caps anyway.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Just a word to the wise."

 And... I quote...

 "There is always a risk, diodes or not, when you pull a hot tube from a mosfet hybrid. We warn our customers of this, and the PH-12 repair rate (and we will get a big 4 accounting firm to audit this  ), in the 4 years that we have been selling this has been less than 0 .5 %.

 Pacific Valve"

 Not a terribly high failure rate... but..._

 

We take our precautions.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi pataburd,

 For audio note tantalums you wanna go with the higher value. The higher the value, the better they sound, opposite to normal resistors! So, if you go audio note, i suggest you get the 2 watt versions. I got the 2 watt versions in the bada. Not to shunt the pot, but nevertheless.

 The vcap oimps just fit in the bada, without having to do anything to the chassis or the bottom plate, it's up to you. I reckon those mcaps are quite large and quite hard to fit in without tweaking the bottom plate!

 It's all up to you!

 Enjoy, you will be surprised what you've been missing before.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 One other thing, for shunting a 50K pot, most people use 47K resistors.

 P.s.
 Black Stuart went with the normal caps at first but changed to higher end caps in the end. If you can afford it, change the 2,7ufarad caps also to the higher standard silver in oil caps or go with the venhaus oimps! They are in the signal path and you want as high a quality as possible.

 Also, Stuart tried out ERSE pulse-X caps and he really liked these caps and are really not that expensive.ERSE: Premium Metalized Polypropylene Capacitors : Pulse X Caps They only do a 2.2 though, not a 2.7ufarad capfor a 250 volts version, only costing about 5 dollars.

 As coupler caps, stuart is using the silver signal caps (like me) and he really likes these in that position. Not cheap though but about as good as it gets! If not better, at least on par with the audio note silver caps, costing more then 4times as much!

 I would suggest to get the best caps you can afford, mostly you only mod the bada once but you'll enjoy it for a long time. Sometimes going cheap will cost ya more in the end because you might end up later, like stuart, with the higher end caps anyway._

 

Tour,
 Ideally, I'd like to go with the 0.47uF/300v V-Cap TFTF (@$100), but am afraid it's too "fat" (1.06 x 1.35 in.). Along with that, I was looking at the 2.7uF/250v V-Cap OIMP (0.75 x 1.7 in., @$53). 

 Alternatively, the 1.0uF V-Cap OIMP (0.53 x 1.3 in., @ $47) could replace the 1.0uF Solen (instead of the 0.47uF V-Cap TFTF). The OIMP would definitely fit in that position without my having to worry about chassis space.

 Although, I've read in one review that the Mundorf M-Cap Supremes were rated better than the V-Cap OIMPs (and in the same class as the V-Cap TFTF, but certainly not as highly). (And the M-Cap Supremes rated better than the M-Cap Supreme silver/oils!) Maybe I'll just get the M-Caps and do without the bottom plate. : )

 I may opt for a Tantalum in lieu of the Mills, but can't find one higher than 2W.

 Thanks!
 PAB


----------



## pataburd

What about WIMA coupling caps? There are some NOS WIMA "Black Box" coupling caps for sale on eBay right now. (I could get 2x 1.0uF/400v and 2x 2.2uF/400v for about $90.) 

 They're square-shaped, only 0.65 inches deep, so they should fit the Bada chassis fine.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Ideally, I'd like to go with the 0.47uF/300v V-Cap TFTF (@$100), but am afraid it's too "fat" (1.06 x 1.35 in.). Along with that, I was looking at the 2.7uF/250v V-Cap OIMP (0.75 x 1.7 in., @$53). 

 Alternatively, the 1.0uF V-Cap OIMP (0.53 x 1.3 in., @ $47) could replace the 1.0uF Solen (instead of the 0.47uF V-Cap TFTF). The OIMP would definitely fit in that position without my having to worry about chassis space.

 Although, I've read in one review that the Mundorf M-Cap Supremes were rated better than the V-Cap OIMPs (and in the same class as the V-Cap TFTF, but certainly not as highly). (And the M-Cap Supremes rated better than the M-Cap Supreme silver/oils!) Maybe I'll just get the M-Caps and do without the bottom plate. : )

 I may opt for a Tantalum in lieu of the Mills, but can't find one higher than 2W.

 Thanks!
 PAB_

 

Hi pataburd, as with the tubes, it's the combination.

 All the reviews i read about the venhaus oimps are very positive. Alot of people that tried them all, say the venhaus oimps are one of the best of the higher end caps. The tftf teflon caps are slightly better, yes. The combination tftf and oimp seems very hard to beat.

 Mundorf is very good, no question about that. However, most still prefer the silver version instead of the gold/silver version because of some harsness in the high notes. harness will fatigue if you listen a longer period to the music.

 Remember that evey cap has it's own signature! The best cap is the one you hear the least! Some caps impress because they emphasize a certain range. The best caps are top to bottom well balanced and have the least impact on the sound.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Sorry, 2 watt tantalum is as high as it goes. The 2 watt versions sound best!

 P.s

 what you can do, and what i did in my bada, is to use extension feet on the tftf caps if needed, so you create a little more space to place them in the bada. I used also extension feet on the silver signal to be able to get them out of the way of the heatspots near the tube sockets! Since it uses beeswax, not a good idea to place them on the warmest spot of the bada.

 Remember that also alot of things are preference. I read so much different opinions about caps, but the vcap oimp still is highly regarded.

 Personally, i would go with the tftf and oimp combination, since people say it's tough to beat. The oimp in the 2.2 position is a no brainer, fits right in there.


 Wima is nice, but no higher end cap, that's what i read about wima, especially the new stuff. As i said before all is preference and you might like em. But, to avoid dissapointments, i would go with the caps people highly recommend, like the mundorfs, the venhaus caps, silver signal etc.

 This is what i found about the wima black box:

 "WIMA Black Box is actually enhance version of MKP10 for audio frequency range. MKP10 is old since maybe 50s but Black Box not. *Sound quality is unique *for people who like those type of sound. Maybe or maybe not your cup of tea. *Different to teflon sound quality*. Also their 630V range is much better than 400V range."

 and:

 "Managed to meet up with Robert of AHFArtAudio, this is what he said about this WIMA Cap.

 It's a OEM product to Hong Kong, therefore it's not in the WIMA catalog. 

 Sound wise he says good midrange but *sacrifices highs and bass*. *(Not something you want with your d2000 or akg 501).*


 That's all I manage to find out."


 A very unique sound, means you either like it or not.

 Once you start to spend money, make sure you do it on quality!

 As usual, all is up to you.


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 Thanks again, and especially for the information on the WIMA Black Box caps.

 It looks like I'll go with the 0.47uF V-Cap TFTF, along with the 2.7uF V-Cap OIMP. Right now, I'm waitng for Chris Ven Haus to write back about the sonic merits of using the 0.47 TFTF versus the 1.0 OIMP (using the latter would save me $106, and match the capacitance of the 1.0uF Solens already there).

 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Thanks again, and especially for the information on the WIMA Black Box caps.

 It looks like I'll go with the 0.47uF V-Cap TFTF, along with the 2.7uF V-Cap OIMP. Right now, I'm waitng for Chris Ven Haus to write back about the sonic merits of using the 0.47 TFTF versus the 1.0 OIMP (using the latter would save me $106, and match the capacitance of the 1.0uF Solens already there).

 PAB_

 

Most of the time, smaller caps are faster. So, if you use the 0,47ufarad, like black stuart and i are doing, you might gain in better dynamics. I am quite sure you will love the low and tight bass of the venhaus oimp. Mostly coupler caps are very overrated, so there is absolutely no harm in using a 0.47ufarad in that position, the merrits are better sound.

 This is why i think the tftf and oimp combo works so well;

 tftf teflon might be on the leaner side of sound, the oimps are clean with a nice warm touch(very slight), combine those 2 and you have the perfect mix.

 If you can afford it, i would go with the highest quality possible for the coupler caps, the tftf.

 Once you've done all of this, i am quite sure you'll forget about the darkvoice 337 very fast...


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 Your observations about the TFTF v. OIMP are closely akin to what Chris Ven Haus wrote:

"The TFTF will have a bit more extended highs and a bit more neutral mids,while the OIMP's will help mitigate some glare that some digital components have."

 Therefore, I concur with you and think that the 0.47uF TFTFs in combination with the 2.7uF OIMPs is the way to go. 

 Might as well "get it done right" this time, and remove any doubt later on down the road.

 With the prospect of getting the Bada mods done, I am already beginning to forget about the DV337! : ) Although with the 2x KuhlTube CA-6SJ7WGT and 2x Mullard 6080, the 337 should tide me over for a few weeks. But the Bada does such a better job with the K501, IMHO, that it might be a "long" few weeks! : )

 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Your observations about the TFTF v. OIMP are closely akin to what Chris Ven Haus wrote:

"The TFTF will have a bit more extended highs and a bit more neutral mids,while the OIMP's will help mitigate some glare that some digital components have."

 Therefore, I concur with you and think that the 0.47uF TFTFs in combination with the 2.7uF OIMPs is the way to go. 

 Might as well "get it done right" this time, and remove any doubt later on down the road.



 PAB_

 

I know my stuff.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Yes, that is exactly what i mean, if you do it right, you won't long for anything else and in the end, it might save you money because you don't have to search and experiment. This is one of the best combinations you can get! Also the combo silver signal/oimp is wonderfull.

 Prepare for a long break in for the bada after the mod, the venhaus caps are notorious for long break in (just like black gate caps) but you will be rewarded.

 Put some cheap tubes in the bada that you don't like and let it run for at least a week or week and a half 24/7...This will speed up the break in period.
 The iomps need about 300 hours, the teflons need about 500 hours.

 At the moment i am fully concentrating on modding my cdplayer. One step is completed ( a passive filter) and it gained alot in transparency. The next step will probably be the clock (tentlabs xo clock with deddicated psu) and the powersection mod.

 Last, i will do the digital section, as icing on the cake, since i feel that will gain the least improvement, but an improvement nevertheless.

 Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 Ric Schultz at EVS modded my Oppo DV-970HD player, and it sounds excellent. He is now offering the 32 bit DAC and 32 bit/211 kHz Upsampler option, which I may have added to modded unit I already use.

Oppo Player Mods.

 But "first things first" (i.e. the Bada)! : )

 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Ric Schultz at EVS modded my Oppo DV-970HD player, and it sounds excellent. He is now offering the 32 bit DAC and 32 bit/211 kHz Upsampler option, which I may have added to modded unit I already use.

Oppo Player Mods.

 But "first things first" (i.e. the Bada)! : )

 PAB_

 

I heard some good things about the oppo players. But they are basically dvdplayers.

 I read alot of people stick to 20/24/96 upsampling, since alot recon that higher upsampling adds fatigue to the highs...

 It might bring your player closer to sacd sound, although sacd has it's own high region problems, 6 bits/highs. They sound closed in, not as open as a good cdplayer in the high regions.

 After you've done the bada, you might be satisfied after all.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally, i don't believe in upsampling that much...after all, there isn't any more info then there actually is and they all alter the signal in some way.

 For the same money or less you'd buy a good sacd player, wich was build for higher frequencies(same as your 32 bit dac, 2.1mhz). I dunno but upsampling is too much voodoo, as i said, what isn't there cannot be magically added. I am quite sure it will sound different, but better???

 Also alot of people say multi bit players sound better then 1 bit machines. I heard some sacd players and they lack in good cd playback!

 Again, it's all up to you. But i am quite convident you'll love the upgrade to the bada!

 P.s.

 With really good recordings like the xrcd, xrcd2 and k2hd cd recordings you'll be very close to sacd anyway.


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 The DV-970HD is a great universal player, with HDCD even! : )
 And almost every respectable DAC on the market today is 24/192.
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 The DV-970HD is a great universal player, with HDCD even! : )
 And almost every respectable DAC on the market today is 24/192.
 PAB_

 

Not so! Alot of people still prefer the 20-24/96 cdplayers. newer doesn't mean it's always better! Like the cdplayer versus the recordplayer.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not so! Alot of people still prefer the 20-24/96 cdplayers. newer doesn't mean it's always better! Like the cdplayer versus the recordplayer.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Tour,
 But these people are "Fuddy-Duds" resistant to technological change, or they're too embarrassed to admit that their old, $5000, 24/96 player now sounds no better than a new $300, 24/192 player! : )
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 But these people are "Fuddy-Duds" resistant to technological change, or they're too embarrassed to admit that their old, $5000, 24/96 player now sounds no better than a new $300, 24/192 player! : )
 PAB_

 

No, companies like you to think anything new is better. What about the growing number of people choosing NOS dacs or cdplayers!

 Most new cdplayers are severly lacking in cdplayback! Older pure cdplayback chips still sound better. Alot of people are going back to the old cdplayers because of the better sound, think of the 63ki, the pcm 1702, 1704 and the philips 1541a chipsets. Highly sought after! The 1541a and the ki63 chips are way more expensive then any other modern chip.

 Modern sacdplayers have nice sacdplayback but cdplayback is only so-so!

 I heard an audio note NOS dac that sounded much better then anything else, was quite expensive, but nonetheless.

 People that have dacs where you can change upsampling from 44.1 to 192/196 say there isn't really much of a difference, some don't hear a difference at all.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to mention that most middle class recordplayers wipe out any higher end cdplayer or sacdplayer.

 The REAL difference makes the analogue stage/powersection(s). Some older high end cdplayers are still better in that respect as some middle class sacdplayers/cdplayers.


----------



## tourmaline

pataburd,

 i found this in the "what makes a good cdplayer thread"

 "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 We have some 15 players on hand (all tube) and some 25 DACs ( mix of tube and solid state). As you can imagine, although anecdotally, some trends can emerge:


 The All Sound Different
 And make no bones about it. Some sound more digital than others, some sound like vinyl, some are laid back and some are in your face. 

 The Chips are all over the place
 We cannot correlate sound quality to chip quality by any reasonable means. We can however, correlate sound quality to circuit design around the chip. So old chip designs in great circuits sound better than the latest and greatest most expensive chips in poor circuit designs.

 Filtering is understated, jitter is over stated
 The filtering device and over sampling (not upsampling) play a big, big, role in the sound characteristics. Ergo, we are at a point where we can always tell if its a NOS DAC vs. a over sampling one. A properly filtered signal has the correct amount of detail and resolution. if you are experiencing digital "grunge", then 9 of 10, it is the a poor filter and not a poor chip.

 Upsampling is over stated and over rated
 It is not true, really not true, that the higher the upsampling the better the sound. Rather, the right upsampling, the better the sound. What is the right upsampling? - depends on the chip & circuit design. Most of the chip and circuit design we encounter sound right somewhere between 48 and 96 kHz. 192, 176, never sounds right to me, but its me, remember.

 And these are just a few... I could go on, but I see you starting to nod off.....
 Anyway, what a great blog topic this would make....
 Vic."

 i would add:

 multibit versus 1 bit: for most, multibit players sound better.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Pataburd,
 you will know the reasons I stopped posting on this thread some time ago.

 Anyway here goes - forget all about the Wima caps, I have an original Lehman Black Cube phono stage - I changed just the Wima 2.2uF/63V for ERSE 2.2uF/250V and the difference was tremendous - these ERSE caps are cheap and seem to belie the adage that a cap must be big to have a big sound- They are very clean and dynamic and the top end just goes on and on without any grain or harshness.

 In the Bada I have taken out the original PSU caps and replaced with Philips LL PH caps, they are now NOS but can be bought from Machmat in the Netherlands - they are a real improvement on the ones fitted - real air and breadth and they are not expensive, indeed there are many Euros who prefer these tp BGs.

 Definately get rid of the nasty little Wima 0.1uFs that are soldered to the valve bases and use ERSE instead - you will not be dissapointed.

 I am getting rid of all the Solens for ERSE 1uF/250V, I know this will be real improvement.

 Tourmaline persuaded me to buy the Dutch Silver couplers and they are beautiful.

 I presently have ERSE 2.2uF caps fitted in the Bada but will uprate them to 2.7.

 Do get rid of the awful carbon resistors fitted before the Mosfets. I have changed them for Welwyn mil spec wirewounds and have massively over-rated them.

 I have also long ago removed the bottom plate so that the 2 Papst fans can really strut their stuff.

 The Bada now sits on a box of slate I had made and the fans are hidden inside, also there is now no problem with fitting large caps.

 I will eventually use remote fan cooling (for my whole system). A lot of American homes are built off the ground on piles - it would be so easy to use flexible piping to carry cold air to the whole sound system via powerful 15/20 Watt fans using sound deadening material within the first 2 metres or so of piping.

 I have had the Bada for around 2 years now and (famous last words) have never blown a Mosfet despite frequent mods and changes to the Bada. I´ve even changed tubes after only a few hours.

 I wonder if it is only changing tubes that causes the Mosfets to blow. Maybe it´s those nasty cheap carbon resistors to blame - quien saves.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Pataburd,
 you will know the reasons I stopped posting on this thread some time ago.

 Anyway here goes - forget all about the Wima caps, I have an original Lehman Black Cube phono stage - I changed just the Wima 2.2uF/63V for ERSE 2.2uF/250V and the difference was tremendous - these ERSE caps are cheap and seem to belie the adage that a cap must be big to have a big sound- They are very clean and dynamic and the top end just goes on and on without any grain or harshness.

 In the Bada I have taken out the original PSU caps and replaced with Philips LL PH caps, they are now NOS but can be bought from Machmat in the Netherlands - they are a real improvement on the ones fitted - real air and breadth and they are not expensive, indeed there are many Euros who prefer these tp BGs.

 Definately get rid of the nasty little Wima 0.1uFs that are soldered to the valve bases and use ERSE instead - you will not be dissapointed.

 I am getting rid of all the Solens for ERSE 1uF/250V, I know this will be real improvement.

 Tourmaline persuaded me to buy the Dutch Silver couplers and they are beautiful.

 I presently have ERSE 2.2uF caps fitted in the Bada but will uprate them to 2.7.

 Do get rid of the awful carbon resistors fitted before the Mosfets. I have changed them for Welwyn mil spec wirewounds and have massively over-rated them.

 I have also long ago removed the bottom plate so that the 2 Papst fans can really strut their stuff.

 The Bada now sits on a box of slate I had made and the fans are hidden inside, also there is now no problem with fitting large caps.

 I will eventually use remote fan cooling (for my whole system). A lot of American homes are built off the ground on piles - it would be so easy to use flexible piping to carry cold air to the whole sound system via powerful 15/20 Watt fans using sound deadening material within the first 2 metres or so of piping.

 I have had the Bada for around 2 years now and (famous last words) have never blown a Mosfet despite frequent mods and changes to the Bada. I´ve even changed tubes after only a few hours.

 I wonder if it is only changing tubes that causes the Mosfets to blow. Maybe it´s those nasty cheap carbon resistors to blame - quien saves._

 

Stuart,

 i told ya those silver signals are lovely.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I told ya that i saw some really high end amplifiers using the same blue philips caps you are using in the bada right now. So, they really can't be bad.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe they are better then the fabeled black gates, who knows....

 Black gates are the most clean caps probably, so, if you need some different colour added to your amp, you can go with other caps. Silmics add some warmth, for instance...

 For the money however, you cannot go wrong with the philips caps, they are much cheaper then the black gates, wich are harder and harder to get..And i am quite sure these are really good caps, perhaps even really close to the black gates for 1/3 of the price. But as stuart said, limited in stock and value.

 I am quite sure it's the *tuberolling within the first minute of turning the amp off*. The two diodes fitted to the new bada's (the shop who modded the bada did that also to mine) really don't prevent the bada from blowing mosfets if you do it a couple of times after eachother, as i found out. So, precaution is still at hand!

 I measured the value in the output caps and they go from 1 volt to 0 volts in about 24 hours. Save is within 6-12 hours.

 Now to fix the right channel and do the last mods for the cdplayer and i am done. Bring on the music and those wet dark winter nights...

 One more thing;

 since the bada and the cdplayer are getting better and better, i am more and more longing for the higher end recordings. I am mostly looking now for the xrcd, xrcd2 or the k2hd cd recordings or any other high end recordings, because they sound so much better.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.s.

 Stuart, one more thing, now the bada is up to notch, i am quite sure that your source is now the weakest link.


----------



## nae45ro

So to summarize another option 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 >

 2.2uF(250V) > L = 27mm, D = 13mm > V-Cap OIMP 2.7uF(250V) > L = 43.2mm, D = 19mm> 52.99$/piece for 2 pieces

 1uF(250V) > L = 21mm, D = 10mm > V-Cap TFTF 0.47uF(300V) L = 34.3,D = 26.9> 99.99$/piece for 2 pieces (600dc version is even more expensive)

 Question still stand > will they fit inside the BADA ? (I'm too lazy to open it up again and check for myself)


----------



## nae45ro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct.

 If you want a faster and cleaner sound, you could replace the caps in the powersection as well. I used black gates all through the powersections and high quality caps as coupler and powercap.

 Mine is totally moded, the powersections, resisters, caps, cables etc.

 The circles in blue are suggestions to bring the mod even to another level.







 you could either shunt the pot, or go for a new potmeter completely, as i did.
 But shunting the pot should do.

 The resisters gave Black Stuart and i some problems. We replaced them with welwyn military resisters.These are very good resisters. The caps in the powersection, i replaced with black gate Nh type 68Ufarad caps. As clean as it gets.

 You could replace the fuse for an ahp copper fuse or a furutech silver rhodium plug. I have those on my way and keep you guys posted about this one. The ahp made a nice and very noticable improvement in transparency, stage and detail. I sent pataburd one to try out, he will keep you posted as well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the inside of my completely modded bada:







 Nothing happens if you use 400-500-800 or 1200 volts version of caps in the bada. They are more likely higher end caps, so they can withstand more.

 The venhaus caps fit perfectly in there.

 Make the coupler caps 0,47ufarad. they don't have to be 1ufarad, as larger caps tend to be slow(er).

 Don't forget a good powercable or interconnect either!_

 

Damn, your amp is completly modified. I wouldn't go that far. For now, I'd like to only change the front tube withEH gold and the 4 caps mentioned above. Afterwards I'll see for more !


----------



## Black Stuart

I forgot to mention the Rhodium fuses, they make a real difference.
 However you would'nt believe the abuse and ridicule Tourmaline and I put up with on another forum and all coming from geeks that have never tried them - closed minds are dead and frightened minds


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I forgot to mention the Rhodium fuses, they make a real difference.
 However you would'nt believe the abuse and ridicule Tourmaline and I put up with on another forum and all coming from geeks that have never tried them - closed minds are dead and frightened minds_

 

Sure, we can't forget the best bang for the money upgrade; the padis/furutech rhodium fuse! Especially voices are exceptional with this fuse.

 Sorry pataburd, i haven't found a source selling 110 volts versions yet.

 Conclusion: only listen to or trust your own ears, or friends you trust your ears with.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So to summarize another option 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 >

 2.2uF(250V) > L = 27mm, D = 13mm > V-Cap OIMP 2.7uF(250V) > L = 43.2mm, D = 19mm> 52.99$/piece for 2 pieces

 1uF(250V) > L = 21mm, D = 10mm > V-Cap TFTF 0.47uF(300V) L = 34.3,D = 26.9> 99.99$/piece for 2 pieces (600dc version is even more expensive)

 Question still stand > will they fit inside the BADA ? (I'm too lazy to open it up again and check for myself) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, i am quite sure they fit. What you can do is solder on extension feet to the venhaus tftf caps so you can fit them in easier near the tube sockets.

 The venhaus oimps will fit in without any hassle.

 I am quite sure you gonna love that combination.

 Powersection is also important, just as important as coupler caps and output caps...stuart also found out since he changed some for the NOS philips blue caps and heard quite an improvement.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nae45ro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, your amp is completly modified. I wouldn't go that far. For now, I'd like to only change the front tube withEH gold and the 4 caps mentioned above. Afterwards I'll see for more ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yup, only the pcb is original...

 Tubes, i would certainly hunt for the better tubes, pataburd, stuart and i all use different mix of tubes but they in general raise the quality considderably.

 Unfortunately, most of the better 6sn7 tubes ain't cheap.

 I am doing the same thing with my source...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right now i think the top 3 tubes are:

 in no particular order:

 Russian 1578 tubes
 jan/philips wgta
 sylvania w

 Unfortunately, all rare tubes and costly.


----------



## pataburd

Just ordered the 0.47uF/300v V-Cap TFTF and 2.7uF/250v V-Cap OIMP. : )
 I bought the Mills 5W/15k resistors and (blush) the 1/2W/46k Tantalums. 

 Stuart, thanks for the update (it sounds like you've been very busy). I might try a few of the additional resistor upgrades you mentioned. Tour, maybe I'll try some some PS cap upgrades based on your mods, too. : )

 In addition to the "basic four" mods, which additional mods do you think are the most effective, rank-ordered from most, to least, effective?


----------



## nae45ro

Glad to hear this pataburd. Keep us posted as soon as u'll have the caps burned in !


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered the 0.47uF/300v V-Cap TFTF and 2.7uF/250v V-Cap OIMP. : )
 I bought the Mills 5W/15k resistors and (blush) the 1/2W/46k Tantalums. 

 Stuart, thanks for the update (it sounds like you've been very busy). I might try a few of the additional resistor upgrades you mentioned. Tour, maybe I'll try some some PS cap upgrades based on your mods, too. : )

 In addition to the "basic four" mods, which additional mods do you think are the most effective, rank-ordered from most, to least, effective?_

 

Most effective is the powersections and the resistors near the mosfet. They get way too hot and you need better quality resistors in there. First blown channel was because of the resistors, one was loose.

 Why didn't you buy the 2 watt tantalums? I know they are more expensive but they sound better.

 The vcaps will be a mayor improvement.

 Most effective would problably a new transformer, but a custom made one is very expensive.

 The best bang for the buck mod would be the 5 amp. padis/furutech fuse. Stuart and i love this fuse. Much better then any fuse on the market today. Unfortunately, i didn't find a source selling 110 volts versions.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most effective is the powersections and the resistors near the mosfet. They get way too hot and you need better quality resistors in there. First blown channel was because of the resistors, one was loose.

 Why didn't you buy the 2 watt tantalums? I know they are more expensive but they sound better.

 The vcaps will be a mayor improvement.

 Most effective would problably a new transformer, but a custom made one is very expensive.

 The best bang for the buck mod would be the 5 amp. padis/furutech fuse. Stuart and i love this fuse. Much better then any fuse on the market today. Unfortunately, i didn't find a source selling 110 volts versions._

 


 Thanks, Tour.
 I suppose I could order 4x Tantalum 2W/15k and use two in series on either side. It's because Stuart recommended a resistor with a higher wattage than the stock (2W) parts that I went with the Mills 5W--although I've heard very good things about the Mills, too.

 Do you have recommendations for the mosfet resisitors? How much did you pay for the power section caps?

 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Tour.
 I suppose I could order 4x Tantalum 2W/15k and use two in series on either side. It's because Stuart recommended a resistor with a higher wattage than the stock (2W) parts that I went with the Mills 5W--although I've heard very good things about the Mills, too.

 Do you have recommendations for the mosfet resisitors? How much did you pay for the power section caps?

 PAB_

 


 Welwyn military spec. for the resistors near the mosfets. They also take care of the heat problem.

 Black gates are expensive, especially the high grade ones. They were about 37 euro's a piece. You also could go for the blue philips NOS caps Stuart used, i can get them over here for just a few euro's each. I saw them used in some other really high end amps, so they can't be bad at all. But, in general, black gates are as clean as it gets. If you want a flavour, go for the philips or any other good cap. The philips are also long life caps, like the black gates.

 I hear from stuart you wanna try out the erse caps first. They are cheaper, dunno if they are the "perfect" match for the tftf caps. They would be certainly cheaper, yes.

 I concentrate on the cdplayer first now. The passive filter made the cdplayer much better and there is more to come. I am amazed how much more life there still is in the old cdplayer. Some chipsets still sound amazing, better then the new ones.

 Mills is close to neutral, tantalums add a nice warm touch, it's up to you, but IF you wanna go the tantalum way, you should get the 2 watt versions. So, you have to be carefull with tantalums, not too much used in the signal path.

 One other thing, i have a source for new akg 501 headphones.


----------



## pataburd

Thanks, Tour.
 Could you please give me the ratings for the 2 banks of 4 resistors near the mosfets? Which Welwyns did you and/or Stuart use?

 I'll try to get the ERSE caps to replace the 0.1uF WIMAs soldered to the tube socket bases, too.

 Fitz has graciously offered to do the mods on my Bada. With his consent, I may also get the RCA inputs replaced, and possibly the critical wiring, as long as I'm at it. : )

 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Tour.
 Could you please give me the ratings for the 2 banks of 4 resistors near the mosfets? Which Welwyns did you and/or Stuart use?

 I'll try to get the ERSE caps to replace the 0.1uF WIMAs soldered to the tube socket bases, too.

 Fitz has graciously offered to do the mods on my Bada. With his consent, I may also get the RCA inputs replaced, and possibly the critical wiring, as long as I'm at it. : )

 PAB_

 







 I told ya, once your at it...

 Better ask Stuart, since mine was modded slightly off spec. I think stuart did a 1 on 1 replacement, but the same as i got in the bada. Same welwyn, but slightly different values. You'd better stick with the value of the 4 resistors in that particular place.


----------



## pataburd

Wanted to check on rewire. Right now I am looking at Neotech 20 or 22 AWG silver plated copper. 

 Am also considering the Furutech Rhodium RCA jacks. 

 As soon as I get the Welwyn resistor specs, I'm good to go! : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wanted to check on rewire. Right now I am looking at Neotech 20 or 22 AWG silver plated copper. 

 Am also considering the Furutech Rhodium RCA jacks. 

 As soon as I get the Welwyn resistor specs, I'm good to go! : )_

 

If you want the rhodium chassis plugs, you also might want to use the rhodium IC plugs. I tried them out and they are one of the best plugs i heard.


----------



## pataburd

Just want to double-check these add-ons:

 (1) 3x Erse Pulse-X 0.1uF/630v (at valve bases),
 (2) 2x Black Gate NH 68uF/350v (power section),
 (3) 8x Welwyn *unspecified*--Stuart, how did you spec out these resistors? (near mosFETs),
 (4) 2x WBT NextGen, gold-plated pure copper RCA jacks,
 (5) 20ft.?/15ft.?/10ft.? Mundorf 24AWG silver w/1% gold cable (for internal signal rewiring).

 I think this will do it! : ) The V-Caps are in the house!


----------



## pataburd

Just ordered the Erse 0.1F/630v caps from DIYCable for $3.75 apiece.

 Have expanded my order with PCX to include 10ft. of the Mundorf 24AWG 99%Ag/1%Au PTFE ($4.25/ft.)and the WBT NextGen gold-plated, pure Cu RCA jacks (price TBD). BTW, *will 10ft. of signal wire be enough?* 

 The Black Gates are difficult to find. And I am still not sure how to spec out the 2x4x Welwyns near the mosFETs. : )

 These mods are so close I can almost taste them!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered the Erse 0.1F/630v caps from DIYCable for $3.75 apiece.

 Have expanded my order with PCX to include 10ft. of the Mundorf 24AWG 99%Ag/1%Au PTFE ($4.25/ft.)and the WBT NextGen gold-plated, pure Cu RCA jacks (price TBD). BTW, *will 10ft. of signal wire be enough?* 

 The Black Gates are difficult to find. And I am still not sure how to spec out the 2x4x Welwyns near the mosFETs. : )

 These mods are so close I can almost taste them!_

 

And it will be very tasty indeed.

 I can get the black gates on tuesday when the shop is open again after the holidays. They are indeed scarse and therefor pricy. They are 36,25 euro's each!

 You also could try the philips LL type of caps that Stuart used, much cheaper. BUT i dunno if they have the right value.

 Let me know what the original value is of the powercaps near the mosfets.

 This is how you can determin the value of the resistors:

Resistor Codes - Transwiki

 Determin what the value of 1 resistor is and multiply by 4! The 4 resistors are in series to create 1 large value.

 Good luck!

 P.s

 I see on the picture, some pages back, that there is a figure of 200 near the resistors, so they must add up to 200ohms = 200R


----------



## Black Stuart

I´ll repeat here the info I gave via pm to Pataburd: the 100R carbon resistors in heatshrink are really crappy (those immediately in front of the Mosfets) and using heatshrink over the 4 for each channel is the last thing you want when trying to dissipate heat. replace these with Welwyn 9W/100R (4 per side,2 paralleled pairs as per original. This gives a total of 36W per channel.

 For those who do not want to remove the PCB, there really is no need just cut the legs of the existing resistors leaving as much of the legs as possible and solder to these.

 get rid of the little red Wima 0.1uF caps soldered to the bases of the tube sockets and use (I suggest) ERSE 0.1uf/630V PulseX caps - this is again a very easy mod to do.

 PSUs are very important in determining signal quality - I removed the 2 supplied 100uF/400V caps and replaced with Philips LL PH caps of the same value - they opened up the soundstage and let the whole thing breathe a lovely organic improvement.

 Pataburd - have no fear Mills resistors are great and I intend to use them to replace the 8.2K carbon ones in the PSU, again I shall uprate them in terms of wattage.

 I will also mention the Dutch Silver 0.47uF ´Divorce´caps - they ain´t cheap but they are wonderful.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I´ll repeat here the info I gave via pm to Pataburd: the 100R carbon resistors in heatshrink are really crappy (those immediately in front of the Mosfets) and using heatshrink over the 4 for each channel is the last thing you want when trying to dissipate heat. replace these with Welwyn 9W/100R (4 per side,2 paralleled pairs as per original. This gives a total of 36W per channel.

 For those who do not want to remove the PCB, there really is no need just cut the legs of the existing resistors leaving as much of the legs as possible and solder to these.

 get rid of the little red Wima 0.1uF caps soldered to the bases of the tube sockets and use (I suggest) ERSE 0.1uf/630V PulseX caps - this is again a very easy mod to do.

 PSUs are very important in determining signal quality - I removed the 2 supplied 100uF/400V caps and replaced with Philips LL PH caps of the same value - they opened up the soundstage and let the whole thing breathe a lovely organic improvement.

 Pataburd - have no fear Mills resistors are great and I intend to use them to replace the 8.2K carbon ones in the PSU, again I shall uprate them in terms of wattage.

 I will also mention the Dutch Silver 0.47uF ´Divorce´caps - they ain´t cheap but they are wonderful._

 


 Told ya you would "love" those caps. I can't imagine your other half gave you a hard time when you ordered those caps.

 Are you sure you need 400R for one channel?

 I am quite sure i don't have near that value in that position!

 P.s
 "divorce" caps: i would call the overrated audio note silver foil caps divorce caps since these are about 800-900 dollars each! In that respect and concerning the real quality of the dutch silver signals, i would call em a real steal!

 Not to mention those 20.000 euro Nordost interlinks, i bet THAT you're partner wouldn't like.


----------



## pataburd

I _almost_ ordered the Welwyns from Newark, UK. The 8x 9W/100R resistors cost about $14, but shipping to the US was $20! I may put 4x Mills 12W per side, but I'm not sure whether that would be too over-specified.

 I'm also looking at either Mundorf or Jensen electrolytics for the 100uF/400v PSU capacitors, but I'm not sure which to buy.

 Lastly, I wanted to double-check: how many meters/feet of wire do I need to re-do the signal/return lines? And will 24AWG be large enough? I am considering the Mundorf PTFE 99%Ag/1%Au--that looks like great cable! : )


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Pataburd,
 re the PSU caps - use the Philips LL PH caps @ approx. $10 - you will not be disappointed, Tourmaline is only too happy to do this for you.

 Re. the chassis - take a look inside and measure roughly, allowing a wide margin of error, remember my offer for the signal wire and for power wire. Save your money and don´t buy the fancy priced commercial stuff.

 The signal wire´s origin you know and the other is top spec. US mil. wire.

 BTW - Newark is the US arm of Premier Farnell in the US and the $20 is an outrageous ´handling charge¨. Farnell in the UK specify a minimum order of 20 pounds Sterling. Farnell in the Netherlands specify a E5 order charge and Spanish Farnell won´t accept orders except from a registered company - go figure that lot out.

 I think you now have a good idea what resistors to use in the Bada without getting screwed for this or that charge and BTW meneer T is going to buy from Farnells some comps for me.

 I´d like to say a big thank you publicly to Pataburd for all the time and trouble he is going to on my behalf and saving me a lot of money on postal costs - this is the way to keep more of our money in our pockets by working together to beat the big companies who refuse to use Federal/State postal services which are always cheaper, much cheaper.


----------



## pataburd

Stuart,
 You are quite welcome. With all your sound advice, I'm being more than compensated for the comparatively "little" effort on my end.

 I wrote Tour and asked him to order the Philips LL caps as-per your recommendation.

 Once my PCX order arrives, I'll be good to go and the Bada will be shipped to Fitz; the rest--to me--will simply be "magic"! : )

 A BIG THANK YOU to Stuart and Tour in the interests of building better international relations!!! : )

 Patrick


----------



## tourmaline

I got the bada back, also the modded cdplayer and DID it make a difference.

 The bada was just fine, no blown channel. It was something in the cdplayer, wich they fixed during modding.

 The cdplayer is completely transformed! That much of a difference, those regulators are really something.

 I also want those in the bada. It will take the bada to an even higher level and it is allready on a very high level.

 Keep on modding.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stuart,
 You are quite welcome. With all your sound advice, I'm being more than compensated for the comparatively "little" effort on my end.

 I wrote Tour and asked him to order the Philips LL caps as-per your recommendation.

 Once my PCX order arrives, I'll be good to go and the Bada will be shipped to Fitz; the rest--to me--will simply be "magic"! : )

 A BIG THANK YOU to Stuart and Tour in the interests of building better international relations!!! : )

 Patrick_

 

I can tell ya one thing; once you've finished, you'll love the bada even more!
 Don't worry about welwyn versus mills, both are rated very higly...they are at the top of resistors. best are probably, vishay, welwyn, mills...it's just a matter of preference.

 Just like caps, they all have their own caracter, although the silver signals are close to perfect.


----------



## pataburd

The Bada gets shipped to Fitz today! Just waiting for the Philips LL 150uF/400v electrolytics and wire, which I will send down later. : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Bada gets shipped to Fitz today! Just waiting for the Philips LL 150uF/400v electrolytics and wire, which I will send down later. : )_

 

Caps have been ordered and payed for! i expect them to arrive somewhere next week; he will ship them probably on monday.


----------



## pataburd

Thanks again, Tour!!
 Now, I just have to finalize the re-wiring choice. PCOCC sure looks tempting!

 Wow, I can't wait to unhook the Darkvoice and install the modded Bada! : )

 Somethings tells me the Darkvoice is Head-Fi history at this point. : )


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somethings tells me the Darkvoice is Head-Fi history at this point. : )_

 

Maybe... maybe not...

 If they've discontinued the DV332... then... maybe. 

 The DV337 was never as popular - because of its massive size, weight and shipping costs.

 And... the DV332 is untested. If it sounds as good, or better than the DV332... then DV will be back in business!

 But... I don't see many folks opting for the DV337, or costly DV337 SE, because of the shipping cost.

 As far as the BADA PH-12... its reputation has been ruined by the mosfet issue, the heat issue, and its reputation for struggling with Grados (DrArthurWells comments, and others). And no one... but you... is going to go to the time, trouble and expense to mod it (very few). Perhaps BADA will upgrade it for low impedance phones, and resolve the mosfet issue - and it will compete... but... not likely for now.

 If DV wants to resume its populariaty... they need to establish US and EU dealerships, and very possibly revive the DV332 (unless they can establish the DV3322 is as good, or better)... but... even then...


----------



## pataburd

GF2,
 When I referred to "Head-Fi history," I meant that in a personal sense. With the modded Bada back in-house, I'll have essentially no need or want for the DV337. : )
 PAB


----------



## pataburd

The Bada is coming into the home stretch with the mods. PCX just shipped the UP-OCC, 18AWG copper hook-up wire to Fitz. 

 With help and advice from Black Stuart and Tourmaline, and with the expertise of Fitz, the following will be done (hopefully within the next week or so):

 2x V-Cap TFTF 0.47uF/300v to replace the Solen 1.0uF/250v signal caps,

 2x V-Cap OIMP 2.7uF/250v to replace the Solen 2.2uF/250v signal caps,

 2x Philips LL 150uF/400v electrolytics for the PSU,

 3x ERSE 0.33uF/630v capacitors to replace the Wimas soldered to the tube bases,

 2x Mills 5W/15k resistors to replace the two resistors inbetween the pair of rear tubes,

 4x Mills 12W/100R resistors to replace the two banks of four resistors near the MOSFETS,

 3x Mills 5W/8K2 to replace existing PSU resistors,

 2x Tanatalum 0.5W/47K resistors to "shunt" the pot,

 WBT NextGen pure copper RCA jacks to replace stock,

 Neotech UP-OCC, 18AWG, Teflon-jacketed copper hook-up wire,

 Both Toshiba 2SK1529 MOSFETs replaced/properly installed, and diodes replaced as-needed.

 : )

 Just thinking about it is exciting! Can't wait to get the Bada home!!


----------



## ry_goody

Anyone know any Bada techs that'd be willing to repair a burnt out Bada ph-12?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Bada is coming into the home stretch with the mods. PCX just shipped the UP-OCC, 18AWG copper hook-up wire to Fitz. 

 With help and advice from Black Stuart and Tourmaline, and with the expertise of Fitz, the following will be done (hopefully within the next week or so):

 2x V-Cap TFTF 0.47uF/300v to replace the Solen 1.0uF/250v signal caps,

 2x V-Cap OIMP 2.7uF/250v to replace the Solen 2.2uF/250v signal caps,

 2x Philips LL 150uF/400v electrolytics for the PSU,

 3x ERSE 0.33uF/630v capacitors to replace the Wimas soldered to the tube bases,

 2x Mills 5W/15k resistors to replace the two resistors inbetween the pair of rear tubes,

 4x Mills 12W/100R resistors to replace the two banks of four resistors near the MOSFETS,

 3x Mills 5W/8K2 to replace existing PSU resistors,

 2x Tanatalum 0.5W/47K resistors to "shunt" the pot,

 WBT NextGen pure copper RCA jacks to replace stock,

 Neotech UP-OCC, 18AWG, Teflon-jacketed copper hook-up wire,

 Both Toshiba 2SK1529 MOSFETs replaced/properly installed, and diodes replaced as-needed.

 : )

 Just thinking about it is exciting! Can't wait to get the Bada home!!_

 

Looks very good on paper, pataburd. If it sounds as it should be, you're in for a real treat! But as i said before, be prepared for a long burn in period. In the end you'll be rewarded. And then some.


----------



## hornet

Hello everybody.... My second Bada is doing very well with new power cord, new signal connectors and some sets of tubes that I am rolling from time to time (with the usual precautions well illustrated in this forum). I have discovered that the problem with my previous Bada was a failure of one of the two big caps in the PSU. It is working properly now, but I have to replace them (since I took them from the first Bada). I think I will start modding one of the two, so I will be able to make comparisons between the modded and the unmodded. I will keep you posted. Thanks to all contributors for this great thread!


----------



## hornet

I have ordered my Bada's replacement parts and they should be here in few days: 2 Black Gates for the PSU, 4 Mundorf Supreme to replace the Solen signal caps, Allen Bradley to replace the two resistors in between the pair of rear tubes, Audio Performance wiring cable and silver solder. I am looking forward to hear the results..... I would like to know from Pataburd if his replacements have arrived and his impressions about the new sound.....


----------



## pataburd

Hornet,
 Congratulations! My Bada is not done yet, but should be returning home in a week or so. Needless to say, I can't wait to plug that modded baby in!! : )

 Those Mundorfs are beastly big. I so much wanted to use Mundorfs "somewhere" in my Bada, but I also wanted to be able to get the bottom plate back on, too!

 Keep us posted; I'll do the same, by the grace of God. : )
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Those Mundorfs are beastly big. I so much wanted to use Mundorfs "somewhere" in my Bada, but I also wanted to be able to get the bottom plate back on, too!_

 

That's why you're better of with the venhaus caps!


----------



## hornet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hornet,
 Those Mundorfs are beastly big. I so much wanted to use Mundorfs "somewhere" in my Bada, but I also wanted to be able to get the bottom plate back on, too!
 Keep us posted; I'll do the same, by the grace of God. : )
 PAB_

 

I have considered the oversize issue, and am ready to use a wooden or marble frame that would lift the Bada if necessary. In any case the basic Mundorf Supreme are smaller that the Silver/Oil. We will see. The Black Caps are also pretty fat, but I expect to be able to cope also with them....
 I had previously considered using the Philips LL 150uF/400v instead of Black Caps but the guy at MachMat told me that I should wait up to three weeks. When I asked for faster (I was ready to pay for that) shipping options he behaved very uncooperatively, and even unpolitely, so I moved elsewhere. Where did you buy yours, Pataburd? Concerning tubes the best options I have found up to now are:
 2 Sylvania brown base 6sn7wgta + 1 RCA gray glass 6sN7GT
 2 Raytheon VT231 + 1 Marconi 6SN7GT or 1 TungSol mouse ears 
 I also tried a couple of AWA Radiotron 6SN7GT (marked Australian Defence Dept) with very good results.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have considered the oversize issue, and am ready to use a wooden or marble frame that would lift the Bada if necessary. In any case the basic Mundorf Supreme are smaller that the Silver/Oil. We will see. The Black Caps are also pretty fat, but I expect to be able to cope also with them....
 I had previously considered using the Philips LL 150uF/400v instead of Black Caps but the guy at MachMat told me that I should wait up to three weeks. When I asked for faster (I was ready to pay for that) shipping options he behaved very uncooperatively, and even unpolitely, so I moved elsewhere. Where did you buy yours, Pataburd? Concerning tubes the best options I have found up to now are:
 2 Sylvania brown base 6sn7wgta + 1 RCA gray glass 6sN7GT
 2 Raytheon VT231 + 1 Marconi 6SN7GT or 1 TungSol mouse ears 
 I also tried a couple of AWA Radiotron 6SN7GT (marked Australian Defence Dept) with very good results._

 

I have black gates in the powersections! They are as clean as it can get.but i personally would go for the silver mudorfs as coupler caps. they are crucial for the sound and the silver are a considderable stepup to the normal mundorfs, as stuart found out.

 I bought the philips LL caps for pataburd and sent it to him via mail. There is limited stock and i think he only had 4 or so left. they are not manufactured anymore, so to find nos of these caps is quite rare. I bet that guy didn't even have the philips caps.

 I've tried most of the high cost tubes and i prefer the sylvania 6sn7 w's, the russian 1578 but best for my setup are still the jan philips 6sn7 wgta. Unfortunately limited run and stock.

 For what i know about the sound between the philips and the black gates:

 The philips are a bit warmer, the black gates are cleaner. If you have coloured cables or warm tubes black gates would be best or if you want to keep it as neutral as possible, if you have colder sounding cables, philips ll would be best bet.

 It isn't so much wich one is better, although i still would give the notch to black gates, it is more a matter of preference and what your system needs!

 So, for some systems, so called inferior tubes could sound better then the high end ones, wich cost you an arm and a leg.

 Another little secret of stuart and i is the rhodium fuse from furutech. Even Stuart was surprised of how much a difference the fuse made in sound quality!
 Unfortunately i still haven't found a source for 110 volts versions, otherwise i would have send pataburd one a long time ago! This would be a no brainer! especially for the money, cheapest and best upgrade there is!


----------



## hornet

Hi Tourmaline, I think the Mundorfs Stuart was referring to where the entry-level Mcaps, the so-called Audiophile. The ones that I bought are the Mcap Supreme, that are said to be even better then the Mcap Supreme silver/oil... They are all here: http://www.mundorf.com/english%201.1/kondensatoren.htm 
 I am very tempted to try the rhodium furutech fuse, as you suggest. It has an awful price but if the result is worth the bucks I might try. By the way, do you use the 10A or the 13A? Do you think that there is a better price around than the 50euro that can I found on the web?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Tourmaline, I think the Mundorfs Stuart was referring to where the entry-level Mcaps, the so-called Audiophile. The ones that I bought are the Mcap Supreme, that are said to be even better then the Mcap Supreme silver/oil... They are all here: http://www.mundorf.com/english%201.1/kondensatoren.htm 
 I am very tempted to try the rhodium furutech fuse, as you suggest. It has an awful price but if the result is worth the bucks I might try. By the way, do you use the 10A or the 13A? Do you think that there is a better price around than the 50euro that can I found on the web?_

 

Could be, most think the silver mundorf is best of the pack, some really like the gold/silver version.

 No, Stuart and i are using the 5 ampere version that is originally in the bada, it is already overrated, so i for sure wouldn't use anything bigger then 5 ampere's! Unless there's 10 amp version originally in the 110 volts version.

 Over here, in Europe, i only have to pay 20 euro's for a 5 ampere fuse. but they don´t have 110 volts versions. 
 I see parts connexxion now has the furutech fuse but they are 40 dollars a piece and they don't have the 5 ampere version. The safest version would be 6.3 amps for you 110 volts guys.

 This is the link:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/ac_products.html

 The company that i bought from runs the complete line up, from 0,25 amp to 15 amp. over here they are called furutech/padis fuses though. padis makes these fuses for furutech.

 At 20 euro's worth every penny. It might sound strange, but even at 50 euro´s i still think these are one of the the cheapest upgrades!

 Believe it or not, they are directional! One direction clearly sounds much better then the other!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Tourmaline, I think the Mundorfs Stuart was referring to where the entry-level Mcaps, the so-called Audiophile. The ones that I bought are the Mcap Supreme, that are said to be even better then the Mcap Supreme silver/oil... They are all here: http://www.mundorf.com/english%201.1/kondensatoren.htm 
 I am very tempted to try the rhodium furutech fuse, as you suggest. It has an awful price but if the result is worth the bucks I might try. By the way, do you use the 10A or the 13A? Do you think that there is a better price around than the 50euro that can I found on the web?_

 

Stupid me, if i had read your sig, i would have known that you're from europe as well. 

 my source sells them for 20 a piece + shipping.


----------



## hornet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stupid me, if i had read your sig, i would have known that you're from europe as well. 

 my source sells them for 20 a piece + shipping._

 

Wow, such a great price! Is it a shop or an internet dealer? 

 Best regards from Hornet


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, such a great price! Is it a shop or an internet dealer? 

 Best regards from Hornet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hornet, you got a PM about the fuses.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi all,
 got back from France a few days ago, lots to do, so could´nt get around to looking at the thread until now.

 Having had a Bada PH12 for over 2 years now and having changed and tried lots of components - I HAVE NEVER BLOWN A MOSFET.

 Yesterday I inadvertently turned on the Bada without h/phones connected for over an hour, went slightly boco when I found out, result - no problems at all, that doesnt mean that anyone should be as stupid as I was. H/phones are to a h/amp what speakers are to an ordinary valve power amp - namely part of the circuit.

 I have said this before and it´s worth repeating - I think the problem with the mosfets is simply one of too much heat.

 The solution is simple create a good heavy box to sit the Bada on - I have used slate but marble or granite would be good. Get rid of the pathetic little fan fitted to the Bada/ buy a Papst fan (or two) and site it/them directly underneath the Bada/use sound damping material (the kind used in autos) or the kind used in computers on all the internal walls of the stone box/ lose the bottom plate, then you can use whatever caps, resistors you like AND this will help enormously to shift the heat.

 If anyone in Europe can´t be bothered to do this with their Bada - sell it to me, I want another to turn into a power amp - anyone interested?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 got back from France a few days ago, lots to do, so could´nt get around to looking at the thread until now.

 Having had a Bada PH12 for over 2 years now and having changed and tried lots of components - I HAVE NEVER BLOWN A MOSFET.

 Yesterday I inadvertently turned on the Bada without h/phones connected for over an hour, went slightly boco when I found out, result - no problems at all, that doesnt mean that anyone should be as stupid as I was. H/phones are to a h/amp what speakers are to an ordinary valve power amp - namely part of the circuit.

 I have said this before and it´s worth repeating - I think the problem with the mosfets is simply one of too much heat.

 The solution is simple create a good heavy box to sit the Bada on - I have used slate but marble or granite would be good. Get rid of the pathetic little fan fitted to the Bada/ buy a Papst fan (or two) and site it/them directly underneath the Bada/use sound damping material (the kind used in autos) or the kind used in computers on all the internal walls of the stone box/ lose the bottom plate, then you can use whatever caps, resistors you like AND this will help enormously to shift the heat.

 If anyone in Europe can´t be bothered to do this with their Bada - sell it to me, I want another to turn into a power amp - anyone interested?_

 

Hi Stuart,

 good to see you're back in one piece.

 No, not interested in selling at all, if any, i plan on investing even a little more in one some mods, the regulators. These make a huge difference, still! I have them now in the modded cdplayer and they can put them also in the bada.

 Clean power makes 80% of the sound! (i used to laugh at those phrases, when i first saw them on youtube in a video about greek audiophiles, but now i did all the mods myself, i know it's true! NO more powerfilters for me, but clean power in the amp and powersections). You cannot patch something on the outside(powerfilter, that is in general a problem on the inside in the first place).

 The problems with the mosfets are 2 fold;

 heat and powerstorage of the caps. Hence the diodes at the mosfets in the new bada's. i got them now in too. They'll block 9 volts, but i measured voltage in caps as high as 12 volts.....so, you still should be carefull. If you switch after 6 hours or a day, no problem at all. In 24 hours the power drains from 12-14 volts to almost 0.


----------



## tourmaline

I had a nice talk with Stuart on the phone last night. He's getting more and more impressed with the dutch silver signal caps. They keep on improving!

 " i told ya so!"

 If only i could him persuade into getting the new and very good powerregulators. For me, it will be the essential upgrade for the bada!


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Billbrolse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a new PH-12, and confronted the seller (Powerseller with a 100% profile on ebay) about the mosfet trouble. He said that Bada had fixed the problem by adding two diodes to protect the mosfet. Could that work/be true?_

 

[size=large]NO[/size]

 About two to three years ago, BADA started to suppy diodes to bridge the two end terminals of the Mosfet. Two diodes are used and joined together:






 This does offer some protection but absolutely does * not* prevent mosfet shorting from pulling out a tube too soon (before power has dissipated from the power caps).


----------



## drarthurwells

MOSFET REPAIR
]

 If you always wait 24 hours after turning the Bada 12 off, before removing a tube, you will not have any mosfet trouble. I have a David Hafler Mosfet speaker amp that is over 30 years old, and have never had any problem with it. 

 Removing a tube in the Bada 12, while there is some power stored in the power caps can (not always) short a mosfet. After 24 hours of being off the caps should be drained enough. I know people who have used the Bada for over 3 years, never had any problems, but follow this rule.

 For a limited time I will supply a new Toshiba 1529 mosfet and two 15V diodes for $10 shipped (while supplies last).

 Be careful handling mosfets in replacing them - can short them easily with static from your fingers. Avoid touching the 3 metal terminal prongs. Use a body ground before touching them and in repair.

 To remove mosfet, first remove bottom plate, lift up enough to remove the fan (you can remove the 4 screws and nuts holding it in, put them aside, and remove fan and set it to the side inside the amp) to allow you to put bottom cover aside, or if you prefer, disconnect two wires that run from fan through the side plate cover, to the front of circuit board where it plugs in. Unplug it (may be difficult, some plugs have a vinyl glue covering) then pull it through the side and out the back, and put aside the bottom plate with fan still mounted in it.

 Remove 6 screws by the tubes and two screws holding the two Toshiba K1529 mosfets.

 Lift cables (on each side of circuit board) out, and then up from the sides so the main circuit board can be lifted up from the rear where the mosfets are.

 Lift the board up where the mosfets are, allowing the front to remain down - tilt it up at the mosfet end. Put a screwdriver in, at the middle of the rear of the board, to prop it up at the rear so it is elevated an inch or so.

 The installed mosfets have a insulator between the frame and the mosfet body, and have a small lock washer, then a larger flat washer, under the screw holding it to the frame. Don't lose any of these.

 Attach a bare ground wire to your wrist that connects to the bottom ground pin of the three prong female plug of your AC wall inlet and to the frame of the amp, when working on the amp's mosfets, or when handling new mosfets.
 This will prevent a static charge from your skin that could short the mosfet and ruin it. Do not handle mosfets unless you are grounded.

 Now, snip each of the three pins of the bad mosfet, underneath the circuit board, close to the mosfet body and take the bad mosfet out. Then use needle nosed pliars or a tweezer to grasp the mosfet pins remaining in the bottom of the circuit board while applying a solder iron on top of the pin, and gently pull the pin through the borad - be gentle so as not to damage copper cylinder inserts in each circuit board hole.

 Use a grounded soldering iron of about 40 watts with a pointed (not chisel or screwdriver) tip, along with a separate solder (vaccum) sucker, to remove all the solder you can from the mosfet pins (three per mosfet) from the top of the circuit board. A desoldering iron may also do this. You need the pin holes to be open and clear with no solder in them. If your soldering iron is not a 3 prong plugged grounded one, then touch the tip to the grounded frame of the Bada, to discharge any static, each time before touching the tip to the Bada/'s circuit board.

 In putting in a new mosfet, take a new mosfet and (with a ground wire attached to your body) bend the three pins near the body of the mosfet so that they bend bend up (about 90 degrees) and toward the other end (another 20 degrees or so) of the mosfet body. Use two small pieces of tape on the sides of the mosfet insulator piece to attach the insulator piece to the bottom of the mosfet body, so the insulator will not drop off of it. Put the mosfet body down under the circuit board with the pins sticking upwards and slide the pins under the board, then upwards through the three holes of the board. Bend one (or more) pin tips to hold it in place so it won't slide out. Make sure the insulator piece is in place. You now have the three tips of the mosfet pointing up through the three holes in the circuit board, protruding up well above the board. Lower the board and screw the mosfets firmly in place, allowing the pins to bend in place as you force the mosfet in position to be screw it in place. Make sure the mosfet insulator is positioned between the frame and the botom of the mosfet, and that the whole of the flat insulator spacer is aligned with the hole of the mosfet, as you screw through this hole to mount the mosfet to the frame. 

 Take two 15V diodes and slide one each in the two outside holes of the mosfet pins so that ends of the diodes with the black bands is sticking upwards, away from the mosfet body. Black bands will be up on the top of the diode body on both diodes. Do this for each of the two mosfets - two diodes per mosfet. 






 Put the 6 screws besides the tubes in, and attach the board. Be sure the mosfets are screwed in also (one screw per mosfet).

 Solder each pin (with the diodes in place) of the mosfets. Briefly touch the tip of the iron to the frame edge in order to ground it and remove static before each touch of the mosfet pin, each time you go to solder a connection. In soldering the pins of the mosfet, try to get the solder to wick down the pin to the other side (bottom where you are soldering on top) of the board for good conductive contact with the other side of the board. Now join the two ends of the diodes together (where they come from the black banded side of the diode body) and solder the joint to bridge over (but not touch) the middle pin of the mosfet.

 Put the two cables on each side in place so they are inside the bottom plane of the frame. Run the wire from the fan through the side plate to the front of the board and plug it in, or replace the fan into the bottom plate if the wire was kept connected to the circuit board. Replace the bottom cover.

 If you have someone do this don't allow them to test it with tubes in, and then remove the tubes to give back to you - they will blow another mosfet.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=large]NO[/size]

 About two to three years ago, BADA started to suppy diodes to bridge the two end terminals of the Mosfet. Two diodes are used and joined together:

 This does offer some protection but absolutely does * not* prevent mosfet shorting from pulling out a tube too soon (before power has dissipated from the power caps)._

 


 My Bada had the diodes in line with the MOSFETs, but I still fried one by removing tubes too soon (but I was very careless and waited no more than 5 minutes after powering down). I think Tourmaline has actually measured charge dissipation over time with the diodes in, and he still recommends at least a few hours before tube-rolling. My custom is to wait at least overnight (12 hours or so).


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Bada had the diodes in line with the MOSFETs, but I still fried one by removing tubes too soon (but I was very careless and waited no more than 5 minutes after powering down). I think Tourmaline has actually measured charge dissipation over time with the diodes in, and he still recommends at least a few hours before tube-rolling. My custom is to wait at least overnight (12 hours or so)._

 

Correct!

 The diodes don't do anything, they'll only block a signal at the incomming end if it's too strong...
 So, when the power is shut off, the coupler caps near the tubes still have full charge...if you pull the tubes directly, the full charge will hit the mosfets and blow them to pieces!

 It takes about 24 hours to get almost to zero! If you wait 12 hours, the diodes wil block the remaining charge, so no harm done to the mosfets!

 If you leave the tubes in, once you're satisfied, there's no harm at all.

 Just be carefull with switching tubes within the first couple of minutes.

 I think bada also recommended at least a couple of hours to wait if you wanted to switch tubes. This is in line of what i measured.

 So, if you only take a little care tubeswitching/tuberolling, there's nothing wrong with the bada!


----------



## Gradofan2

Is this common to all tube amps - that... if you pull the tubes, prior to the elapse of 24 hrs to bleed the caps, that a discharge from the caps will run through the system to the output jack? 

 It there risk of damage to any other components, even though there are no mosfets, or transistors in the circuit? Should you wait 24 hrs after swapping tubes in any tube amp? Or, is that just an issue with the PH-12, because it uses mosfets?

 And... why doesn't BADA make mods to resolve this issue?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this common to all tube amps - that... if you pull the tubes, prior to the elapse of 24 hrs to bleed the caps, that a discharge from the caps will run through the system to the output jack? 

 It there risk of damage to any other components, even though there are no mosfets, or transistors in the circuit? Should you wait 24 hrs after swapping tubes in any tube amp? Or, is that just an issue with the PH-12, because it uses mosfets?

 And... why doesn't BADA make mods to resolve this issue?_

 

The technician said that it is common in the tube amps simular to the design of the bada!

 Yes, it can damage other parts as well, as i found out, it will also destroy the powerregulator for the tubes! 

 Mosfets are extremely sensative, but have in general much better sound quality then normal transistors.

 Tubes in general can handle peaks much better. Tubes only clip a bit, whereas mosfets or transistors in general would blow.

 As i said, if you wait 12 to 12 hours, no risk at all!

 Yes, i think it is better to wait at least 12 to 24 hours for any tube amp. Either this, or bleeder resistors near the coupler caps, wich will degrade the sound. So, what do you think is best! A little patience or extra components in the signal path!

 I know what i prefer! I'll wait.

 The diodes are the best solution, it is inherent to the design!


----------



## tourmaline

Pataburd, got your modded bada back?!


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 No, not yet. Work proceeds slowly, but surely and expertly. I'm hoping to have it back before the local Head-Fi meet!

 Meanwhile, the Darkvoice 337 is starting to grow on me. : )

 PAB


----------



## hornet

I closed the hood of my newly modded Bada last Sunday. Sounds great with the Mundorfs Supreme and the Allen Bradleys... More transparent and with a better definition of different instrumental layers. The funny thing is that I am starting to detect new background noises in the recordings, that makes everything more realistic. I am sure that it will sound even better after some burn-in.... I will post pictures soon. I am now thinking of the fuse upgrade suggested by Tourmaline, some rewiring, a new pot (I'd love a ladder pot), or a pot shunting and, last but not least, an effective cooling system. I am a bit tired of the table fan, even if, admittedly, it works fine! 
 Best regards from Hornet


----------



## pataburd

Nice to hear, hornet. Congratulations! I wanted to get the Mundorf electrolytics into the Bada; maybe they would have fit lying down.

 I'm getting very antsy for my Bada to return, and to hear the V-Caps! : )

 ENJOY!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I closed the hood of my newly modded Bada last Sunday. Sounds great with the Mundorfs Supreme and the Allen Bradleys... More transparent and with a better definition of different instrumental layers. The funny thing is that I am starting to detect new background noises in the recordings, that makes everything more realistic. I am sure that it will sound even better after some burn-in.... I will post pictures soon. I am now thinking of the fuse upgrade suggested by Tourmaline, some rewiring, a new pot (I'd love a ladder pot), or a pot shunting and, last but not least, an effective cooling system. I am a bit tired of the table fan, even if, admittedly, it works fine! 
 Best regards from Hornet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great report hornet.

 good to hear you like the upgrades!

 Yes, the furutech fuse will lift the performance even higher! As a matter afaect, it's the most cost effective upgrade for just 20 euro's! Another 60-80 euro's will buy you the fuse and the two papst fans stuart and i are using.

 Even more effective in cooling and less noise, since we can adjust speed for the fans to our liking.


----------



## hornet

Here it is a picture of the little creature.... The Black Gates are rather fat, but they can be fitted in with a bit of imagination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I hope it can be of help.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it is a picture of the little creature.... The Black Gates are rather fat, but they can be fitted in with a bit of imagination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I hope it can be of help.




_

 

Looks neat and nice, hornet. i've got even more stuff crammed in.LOL.

 You still can replace the resistors near the mosfets and do a shunt on your blue alps. I would try the shunt first before you spend the money on the expensive pots. I did put in a new expensive pot, it is much better, but a shunt might not be far behind for a fraction of the cost. Especially the good ladders might cost you between 150-300 euro's.

 But my pot is extremely clean.

 congrats..looks nice and i am sure it'll sound nice too.


----------



## hornet

many thanks tourmaline! There is a question I would like to ask you: how do you power the papst in your bada? I was thinking to use the internal power supply (the one used by the factory fan), after shorting the temperature sensor diode, but I wonder whether it is feasible. 
 best regards from Hornet


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_many thanks tourmaline! There is a question I would like to ask you: how do you power the papst in your bada? I was thinking to use the internal power supply (the one used by the factory fan), after shorting the temperature sensor diode, but I wonder whether it is feasible. 
 best regards from Hornet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, i use a seperate powersupply for the papst coolers, i use 2 underneath the bada so the complete pcb and chassis is cooled from underneath. Even after hours of operation, the components, pcb and chassis are completely cool.

 I didn't want any more component draining the powersupply, it might hurt your sound quality!

 Seperate cooling is the way to go...i use a powersupply that can alter the voltage, from 7,5 to 14 volts, so i can run the papst either very slow or faster for more cooling. This way you have total control over cooling and soundproduction...if you are able to control the voltage, you can also control the airflow and the sound the fans make, the harder they run, the more sound they make, wich is ofcourse quite obvious. And i use a switch, to turn the coolers on and off. Papst coolers are one of the best and will cool for years to come.

 I have pictures of the fan setup in the mod the bada thread, somewhere here on head-fi...

 found the picture, i put some wooden feet underneath the fans, some fibration reduction material and rubber feet so they won't wonder off. If i touch the fans, they don't fibrate at all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











 The papst fans are 12 x 12 cm, 2 of them just fit underneath the bada, when lifted high enough.

 i also drilled the complete chassis for better heat dissipation:






 The drilling of the chassis has the affect that hot air is pressed out through the holes, and only new fresh and cool air is used for cooling the components...as i said before the chassis is after 3-4 hours of operation completely cool!


 I took the heat sensor out, no use for it anymore and the bada is always cooled...not when the bada is allready very hot!

 I also took off the transformer from the chassis, wich is now also seperate from the chassis!!! This means also less heat near the mosfets!

 The 3 tubes and the 2 mosfets are the 2 heat spots, they now have both their own papst fan for cooling! Way more cooling, less fan sound ( the 4 x 4 cm fan made a terrible noise when activated), the papst fan is just whispering at 12 volts ( in the low 20's db) and at 7,5 volts( below 20 db)you'll hardly hear them at all.

 I would consider active cooling a must for the bada or any tube amp in general since tube amps can get very hot and it will lenghten the tube life, component life and has positive affect on the sound quality.


----------



## pataburd

My $10, 6-inch Lasko desk fan runs "whisper" quiet, keeps the Bada nice and cool, does not bear directly on the amp's chassis and does not drive/entrain microdust into/onto the components/PCB. That last item is my chief concern.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My $10, 6-inch Lasko desk fan runs "whisper" quiet, keeps the Bada nice and cool, does not bear directly on the amp's chassis and does not drive/entrain microdust into/onto the components/PCB. That last item is my chief concern._

 

Pataburd, no dust at all, not even a smidgen of dust. No worries at all, even stuart who lives in a very dusty envirement doesn't even has a smidgen dust in the chassis...everything is blown away....


 This, is the best method to cool the chasis.

 Edit;

 i am not sure why you think your fan is better for cooling then this system...if any, your fan is more likely to pick up floating dust then this system! Are you afraid, you'd be sandblasting the pcb or something?! NO, no worries, the pcb, components are totally clean, even stuarts' is totally clean and he lives in a real dusty and sandy envirement yet he reports it incredible clean. Unlike anything else in his hous that needs dusting and cleaning every day due to the dust and sand blown in...


----------



## tourmaline

And here are the pics of pataburd's modified bada ph-12:





















 All i can say is, looks really nice and neat and congrats! Enjoy.....

 One thing that strikes me a bit odd, is that one of the teflon caps might be soldered in the wrong way, the pcb is symmetrical, so they should both the soldered in the same! LOOK at hornets' picture of the bada...both soldered in the same way...


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 Thanks again for posting these pictures. The orientation of the V-Cap TFTFs follows Chris Ven Haus' installation guidelines for respecting the quasi-"polarity"/color-coding of the capacitors' leads:

"Although the V-Caps are not polarized, many have found it is best to keep the lead orientation relative to the innermost and outermost foil consistent. The red lead (long wire on OIMP series) indicates the innermost conductor, and should be used for "signal". The green wire (short wire on OIMP series) indicates the outermost foil and should be used for "ground" or signal output. The green (short) lead should always be connected to the lowest impedance return path to ground in the circuit, enabling the outside foil to act as a shield. Another way to identify is the “V” in the V-Cap label always indicates “signal” input side of the cap. Leads should be kept as short as possible, and the caps should be mounted securely. 3M double -sided foam tape and plastic ties work well for this. Avoid over-tightening with ties."


 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Thanks again for posting these pictures. The orientation of the V-Cap TFTFs follows Chris Ven Haus' installation guidelines for respecting the quasi-"polarity"/color-coding of the capacitors' leads:

"Although the V-Caps are not polarized, many have found it is best to keep the lead orientation relative to the innermost and outermost foil consistent. The red lead (long wire on OIMP series) indicates the innermost conductor, and should be used for "signal". The green wire (short wire on OIMP series) indicates the outermost foil and should be used for "ground" or signal output. The green (short) lead should always be connected to the lowest impedance return path to ground in the circuit, enabling the outside foil to act as a shield. Another way to identify is the “V” in the V-Cap label always indicates “signal” input side of the cap. Leads should be kept as short as possible, and the caps should be mounted securely. 3M double -sided foam tape and plastic ties work well for this. Avoid over-tightening with ties."


 PAB_

 

Allright then, nothing to worry about. Enjoy the new bada.


----------



## hornet

My compliments pataburd, it looks wonderful, very clean and neat. I love the rewiring and the pot shunting, great job. It is a helpful example for my next upgrades. Any early impressions after some listening? 
 Enjoy and best regards,
 Hornet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And here are the pics of pataburd's modified bada ph-12:_


----------



## pataburd

Hornet,
 Thank you. You're viewing Fitz's handiwork in the mods, not mine. I therefore happily defer your compliments to him. : )

 Hopefully, by early next week--God willing, the Bada "Max" will be making music with Beyer, Denon and AKG!

 Cordially,
 Pataburd


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi all,
 I still have to use the I/net cafe so a delay in posting.

 First - no Tourmaline I do indeed get dust in the Bada but it´s no great shakes to put an attachment on the vacuum cleaner to get rid of it.

 2 great looking modded Badas, one surprise in Pataburd´s rig - I thought the Philips LL would be used in the PSU but now you´ve made me think about using Philips LL in the same position.

 I got around to using some of those excellant ERSE caps in the Bada and was shocked at the difference they made in a position that I would not have thought a sea change would ocurr: look at the valve/tube bases and you will see some very small WIMA 0.1uF red caps, there are 2 more to look out for as well. I have removed 3 of them and replaced with ERSE. The other I will not try to desolder but cut it away so that I can solder a replacement cap onto it´s legs. I also changed out the ERSE 2.2uF caps for the2.7uF.

 The first time that I tried the Bada, using CD I was struck by the extra detail and timbre (this is something that always happens with ERSE caps) but any harshness on CD was replaced by just a litle ´brightness´on crescendos or female voice but none the less a very big surprising uplift in quality of sound.

 The second night everything improved/settled down but still just a hint of brightness at the top end.

 Last night I switched on the rig and left it for an hour, well! taking out those nasty little WIMAs has been like some serious modding of the CDP/Marantz 63KI when in fact it is still bog standard.

 Those little WIMAs are sitting on the sound adding harshness - remove them and hear what your VH/Mundorf caps can really do.

 The 2 WIMAs that are soldered by the valve/tube bases can just be cut away and ERSE or other good quality caps can be soldered directly to the valve/tube bases - you will not believe the difference.

 I wish I had known about the ERSE caps before - they are completely open and expose lots of detail (not tiring or unreal) and both bass and top end are fantastic. 

 I know now just how good the 2.7uFs are - the bass was so full/tight but oh so expressive - listening to cello or harp and piano is so very real.

 The other cap changes, ERSE for Solens will happen when I dismantle the whole thing to create air channels for the 6SN7s/remove the mains TX and PSU etc.


----------



## pataburd

Stuart,
 Fitz did replace the 3x Wima near the valve bases with 3x Erse 0.1uF/630v caps, per your recommendation--THANKS again for the advice. He fitted them on the underside of the PCB. I have a picture of the Erses in place, if Tour is willing to post it. : )
 PAB

 EDIT: Thanks again, Tour, for posting the Erse 0.1uF cap mods! : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stuart,
 Fitz did replace the 3x Wima near the valve bases with 3x Erse 0.1uF/630v caps, per your recommendation--THANKS again for the advice. He fitted them on the underside of the PCB. I have a picture of the Erses in place, if Tour is willing to post it. : )
 PAB_

 

No problem, just send it to me and i'll take care of it. Stuart, my bada is totally clean, no hint of dust anywhere. But then again, you have extreme dust and sand over there...2.2 vs 2.7, i told ya so...more bass...

 Enjoy the modded bada's.

 edit:

 this one's for you Stuart:


----------



## pataburd

Well, I think I might break down and get a pair of Blackgate electrolytics for the PSU. Right now, I am looking at the 150uF/350v version ($48 apiece at PCX). Are these the ones that you--and Hornet--used? 

 Also, I wanted to ask whether you or Stuart or Hornet (or another Bada owner) has/have inventoried the remaining Solen capacitors and rank-ordered their audio importance. I'd also like to exchange as many of these Solens for ERSE caps.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think I might break down and get a pair of Blackgate electrolytics for the PSU. Right now, I am looking at the 150uF/350v version ($48 apiece at PCX). Are these the ones that you--and Hornet--used? 

 Also, I wanted to ask whether you or Stuart or Hornet (or another Bada owner) has/have inventoried the remaining Solen capacitors and rank-ordered their audio importance. I'd also like to exchange as many of these Solens for ERSE caps._

 

I haven't got one single solen cap left in the bada!

 The philips caps are important, but you allready changed those, these are the powercaps for the 2 tubes! Furthermore, the 2 caps in the powersection, at the back, where the juice comes in, are important...


 Most important would be;

 3 near the tube base (you did that allready)
 2 caps near the tubes ( you got the pilips in there) 
 2 caps in the powersupply, the stack of rubicon caps is allready good, since rubicon is/was the manufacturor of black gate...



 For psu, there is no better then black gate...


----------



## pataburd

Thanks, Tour.

 It looks like 2x Blackgate 150uF/350v electrolytics at the power supply . . . and maybe the Furutech fuse, then I'll call it a day! : )


----------



## pataburd

The upper mids have gotten edgy on the Bada over the last half day, while bass seems to have gotten tighter. Has anyone kept a log of break-in characteristics with Teflon capacitors?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The upper mids have gotten edgy on the Bada over the last half day, while bass seems to have gotten tighter. Has anyone kept a log of break-in characteristics with Teflon capacitors?_

 

oimp vcaps about 300 hours, vcap teflons at least 500 hours of burn in! I've gone through all this, as Stuart, and they change alot over time...

 Oh and eh, black gates are also notorious for a long burn in period, also at least 300-500 hours...I am still in the middle of that process again (cdplayer mod).

 They turn soft, then hard, then soft again, and so on...until they are broken in...

 If you want to skip all this and want to have aserious listen in time, just run the bada and your cdplayer for at least 2 weeks 24/7...That's what i do...and i have a listen in between so i can hear what they do...


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, just send it to me and i'll take care of it. Stuart, my bada is totally clean, no hint of dust anywhere. But then again, you have extreme dust and sand over there...2.2 vs 2.7, i told ya so...more bass...

 Enjoy the modded bada's.

 edit:

 this one's for you Stuart:




_

 

Tour,
 Are those Solens that Fitz moved to the back of the PCB also 1.0uF/250v? The Bada is going back next week for the *Blackgate PSU cap replacement, and the three reamining pairs of Solen 1.0uF will be replaced with Mundorf M-Caps. I was going to order ERSEs, but rather than pay an inflated shipping fee to ERSE--shipping that would cost more than the caps themselves, I'm further ahead putting that extra money into the Mundorfs. : )

 *To tell you the truth, I was/am tempted to try the Mundorf HV electrolytics in lieu of the Blackgates.

 Finally, will order the 6.3A Furutech fuse. Do I get the smaller one (5x20mm) or the bigger one (6.3x32mm)?
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Are those Solens that Fitz moved to the back of the PCB also 1.0uF/250v? The Bada is going back next week for the *Blackgate PSU cap replacement, and the three reamining pairs of Solen 1.0uF will be replaced with Mundorf M-Caps. I was going to order ERSEs, but rather than pay an inflated shipping fee to ERSE--shipping that would cost more than the caps themselves, I'm further ahead putting that extra money into the Mundorfs. : )

 *To tell you the truth, I was/am tempted to try the Mundorf HV electrolytics in lieu of the Blackgates.

 Finally, will order the 6.3A Furutech fuse. Do I get the smaller one (5x20mm) or the bigger one (6.3x32mm)?
 PAB_

 

Pataburd,

 no, i think they are 0,1ufarad. I dunno since i didn't remove them myself. I think Stuart said they are 0,1ufarad.

 You can use whatever you want, but black gate is as good as it gets concerning electrolytics (lowest noise floor and long life...). 

 I am not sure mcap is better then erse...Stuart didn't like the standard mcaps...he changed them for other kind of cap.


 It is the *5 x 20mm *fuse. I didn't know you used the 6.3A in the 110 volts versions...In the european version, there's a 5A fuse in there. But i also could raise the value one step, making it also 6.3 ampere.

 Out of all the mods you plan, i think the money for the furutech fuse is the best mod ever for the money. To bad it is twice as much over there...


----------



## Fitz

The Solens moved to the underside of the board are 1µF/250V as well.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Solens moved to the underside of the board are 1µF/250V as well._

 

Ahh, sorry i get it. Were talking solens here, i had the caps near the tubesockets in mind.

 yes, those are also 1ufarad caps.


----------



## pataburd

Great!
 Thanks, Fitz and Tour. I'm going to order the Mundorf M-Caps to replace all those 1.0uF/250v Solens. : )

 I think Stuart eventually exchanged the M-Caps for other capacitors with respect to the critical signal couplers, correct? I'd think about the M-Cap ZN, but they might be a little too big and "too much" for these less critical (at least I'm assuming they are) 1.0uF/250v applications.

 By all means, educate me if I'm off track here.
 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great!
 Thanks, Fitz and Tour. I'm going to order the Mundorf M-Caps to replace all those 1.0uF/250v Solens. : )

 I think Stuart eventually exchanged the M-Caps for other capacitors with respect to the critical signal couplers, correct? I'd think about the M-Cap ZN, but they might be a little too big and "too much" for these less critical (at least I'm assuming they are) 1.0uF/250v applications.

 By all means, educate me if I'm off track here.
 PAB_

 

Simply put, every cap out of the way is better, but if you have to use em buy the best you can! it all adds up, if you use all better caps in the signal path, you'll hear it at the end! Simple as that!

 Stuart replaced those with russians and some others but settled for the dutch silver signals, wich i also use and recommended to him. He really loves them now! But these are expensive! You have to look at those in terms of the teflon caps concerning price and quality.

 I use black gates all over the bada! In power setups nothing better then black gates. Anything else will add colour.

 You're making one little mistake here thinking that all caps are the same and can be used in the same positions! Black gate is especially good for powersupply and anything else that has anything to do with powersupply...

 The mcaps are especially nice as coupler cap, like the teflons you use but that doesn't mean they are the best for the powersupply! So, black gate and also elna are known as good powersupply caps. Too much elna's in all positions might yield a too warm soundsignature though... Alot of people like the tantalum caps especially in da converters or anything digital in a cdplayer for instance!

 Remember that they used rubicon caps in the powersupply!

 You have to think wich cap is best in wich position. The reviews you read on the web are primarely for coupler cap positions!


----------



## pataburd

Tour,
 I'm ordering the 3x Blackgate NH 150uF/350v electrolytics for the PSU, and 3 pairs of Mundorf M-Cap 1.0uF/400v to replace the Solens. I wanted to try the ZNs, but space on the underside of the PCB--where Fitz move one pair of the Solens--won't allow. 

 The topside might allow for a higher grade Mundorf 1.0uF, though, if the critcality of application justifies it. The ZNs or even the Supremes might fit up there, but the latter might be prohibitvely large

 Lastly, I broke down and ordered the Furutech fuse.

 Just sold the Darkvoice, BTW! : )

 PAB


----------



## hornet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think I might break down and get a pair of Blackgate electrolytics for the PSU. Right now, I am looking at the 150uF/350v version ($48 apiece at PCX). Are these the ones that you--and Hornet--used? 

 Also, I wanted to ask whether you or Stuart or Hornet (or another Bada owner) has/have inventoried the remaining Solen capacitors and rank-ordered their audio importance. I'd also like to exchange as many of these Solens for ERSE caps._

 

Pataburd, I was away so I couldn't answer before. Yes, I replaced the two large PSU caps with two Black Gate VK 150uF/350v. Concerning the remaining solens, I am planning to replace them with something else in the future but first I would like to wait that the Mundorfs open-up and reveal their full personality (I hope it won't take too long!). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Best,
 Hornet


----------



## hornet

By the way, I enjoyed reading this web page with rankings and impressions on audio caps, so I share it with all the forum mates! 

Humble Homemade Hifi

 Best,
 Hornet


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 I'm ordering the 3x Blackgate NH 150uF/350v electrolytics for the PSU, and 3 pairs of Mundorf M-Cap 1.0uF/400v to replace the Solens. I wanted to try the ZNs, but space on the underside of the PCB--where Fitz move one pair of the Solens--won't allow. 

 The topside might allow for a higher grade Mundorf 1.0uF, though, if the critcality of application justifies it. The ZNs or even the Supremes might fit up there, but the latter might be prohibitvely large

 Lastly, I broke down and ordered the Furutech fuse.

 Just sold the Darkvoice, BTW! : )

 PAB_

 

Hi pataburd, i had Stuart on the phone tonight and he urges you to use the ERSE caps instead of the MUNDORFS!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, I enjoyed reading this web page with rankings and impressions on audio caps, so I share it with all the forum mates! 

Humble Homemade Hifi

 Best,
 Hornet_

 

I red that one too some time ago. problem is, this is just a test on the coupler position, so you don't know how the caps perform in other positions in the audio signal!

 There's also a thread on head-fi about caps!!!


----------



## pataburd

The Vishay bypass capacitors are highly recommended on that thread.

 Tour,
 ERSE direct requires a $25 minimum order, and charges $10 for shipping. I'll end up spending $35 for $8.76 worth of 1.0uF/400v caps! Might go to DIY Cable instead. They'll overcharge me for the capacitors (e.g. $1.86 apiece vs. $1.31 direct from ERSE), but I am still ahead pricewise since there's no minimum order and shipping is faster and cheaper with DIYC.
 PAB

 EDIT: The Blackgates have been ordered from PCX, and the 6x ERSE 1.0uF/250v from DIYCable (the 400v were not available from DIYC). The Furutech fuses were back-ordered for 2-3 weeks. The Bada will be making its return voyage to Fitz at week's end. : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Vishay bypass capacitors are highly recommended on that thread.

 Tour,
 ERSE direct requires a $25 minimum order, and charges $10 for shipping. I'll end up spending $35 for $8.76 worth of 1.0uF/400v caps! Might go to DIY Cable instead. They'll overcharge me for the capacitors (e.g. $1.86 apiece vs. $1.31 direct from ERSE), but I am still ahead pricewise since there's minimum order and shipping is faster and cheaper with DIYC.
 PAB

 EDIT: The Blackgates have been ordered from PCX, and the 6x ERSE 1.0uF/250v from DIYCable (the 400v were not available from DIYC). The Furutech fuses were back-ordered for 2-3 weeks. The Bada will be making its return voyage to Fitz at week's end. : )_

 



 Vishay is hit and miss, like their resistors, some sound really nice in some places and some simply don't. Black gate is the savest bet for best performance!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The fuse is something you can do yourself! Beware, this thing is directional...so one direction clearly sounds much better then the other way!

 As i said, Stuart was amazed at how much this fuse made a difference to the sound and that it was directional, he clearly could hear, as i did, that one way in was way much better then turning it around.

 Once you're done, you'll be very pleased with your bada and have fun with your akg501 for a very long time.
 ( i really mean a long time since especially black gates have a long life! Also the philips LL)


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi all,
 regarding the Vishays - it´s as well to remember that once Vishay perceives another company as a major rival - they buy them up, so, a lot of resistors have the Vishay name but are nowhere near their bulk metal foil ones, in terms of quality.

 I intend to try a pair of their ´naked Vishays´which in fact are made under licence by Texas Instruments as shunt resistors for the Alps Blue pot.

 I have been urged by some experienced modders among them Beau of Moskido fame on DIY to try the Vishays. In fact I´m going to replace all the signal path resistors in my Lehman Black Cube phono stage with these naked Rs.

 I´m also thinking about removing the snubber caps (valve/tube) bases to see just what difference this makes because these really are crucial to the sound of the amp as a whole. It´s for this reason that I prefer to have these caps accessible topside of the PCB.

 I know that Tourmaline like many people rate the BGs highly but they are not a neutral cap and have their own sound signature.I am very pleased with the Philips LL and IMHO they may well be better for those who listen solely to CD.

 I know that this has been covered before but the heat issue is something that I feel strongly about - lowering the temperature by 10F will double the life of any component. Indeed this is something that was well known in the 50s´/60s´. My ladýs EL34 amp has several caps that have to be replaced due soley to the heat here in Spain in the summer and the whole amp got very hot - I now do not use a valve amp when the temperature starts to climb.

 The little fan fitted by Bada is a joke plain and simple. 

 Hopefully by the time I have removed the mains Tx and the PSU board completely I shall have a digital camera and can post some pics.

 I am nearly finished with my epic journey in building I/Cs (I may well go commercial on these) and just love the amount and quality of the detail and timbre coming through now - non of this would I know about if I had´nt modded the Bada.

 I can say with certainty that I do not need to think about any other h/amp again. Indeed IF I can buy another PH12 for a reasonable price I am going to attempt turning it into a power amp.

 What this modded amp has shown me clearly is, that hybrid amps, head or power are the way to go.

 The fanatical tube/valve brigade refuse to believe that anything can be better than valves alone. I now am not interested in listening to any other valve than my 6SN7 preference aka 1578 Russian mil. special. I only wish it was possible to build a phono stage using this valve - however I also have a few of the 6SL7 equivalent - 1579 and they can be used.

 Now that I am virtually finished with the Bada, this might be my new journey.

 Like Pataburd I have no wish to go on and on trying to re-invent the wheel every week - I have a great h/amp - that´s it.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 regarding the Vishays - it´s as well to remember that once Vishay perceives another company as a major rival - they buy them up, so, a lot of resistors have the Vishay name but are nowhere near their bulk metal foil ones, in terms of quality.

 I intend to try a pair of their ´naked Vishays´which in fact are made under licence by Texas Instruments as shunt resistors for the Alps Blue pot.

 I have been urged by some experienced modders among them Beau of Moskido fame on DIY to try the Vishays. In fact I´m going to replace all the signal path resistors in my Lehman Black Cube phono stage with these naked Rs.

 I´m also thinking about removing the snubber caps (valve/tube) bases to see just what difference this makes because these really are crucial to the sound of the amp as a whole. It´s for this reason that I prefer to have these caps accessible topside of the PCB.

 I know that Tourmaline like many people rate the BGs highly but they are not a neutral cap and have their own sound signature.I am very pleased with the Philips LL and IMHO they may well be better for those who listen solely to CD.

 I know that this has been covered before but the heat issue is something that I feel strongly about - lowering the temperature by 10F will double the life of any component. Indeed this is something that was well known in the 50s´/60s´. My ladýs EL34 amp has several caps that have to be replaced due soley to the heat here in Spain in the summer and the whole amp got very hot - I now do not use a valve amp when the temperature starts to climb.

 The little fan fitted by Bada is a joke plain and simple. 

 Hopefully by the time I have removed the mains Tx and the PSU board completely I shall have a digital camera and can post some pics.

 I am nearly finished with my epic journey in building I/Cs (I may well go commercial on these) and just love the amount and quality of the detail and timbre coming through now - non of this would I know about if I had´nt modded the Bada.

 I can say with certainty that I do not need to think about any other h/amp again. Indeed IF I can buy another PH12 for a reasonable price I am going to attempt turning it into a power amp.

 What this modded amp has shown me clearly is, that hybrid amps, head or power are the way to go.

 The fanatical tube/valve brigade refuse to believe that anything can be better than valves alone. I now am not interested in listening to any other valve than my 6SN7 preference aka 1578 Russian mil. special. I only wish it was possible to build a phono stage using this valve - however I also have a few of the 6SL7 equivalent - 1579 and they can be used.

 Now that I am virtually finished with the Bada, this might be my new journey.

 Like Pataburd I have no wish to go on and on trying to re-invent the wheel every week - I have a great h/amp - that´s it._

 

Stuart, nothing is really neutral, however the black gates are more neutral then the philips LL caps! If you like them over the black gates is just preference, not a fact. People who know them both, say the black gates are more neutral.

 Also, the russian tube has been found not as superior as one would expect, reading the rave reviews. Instead of raising the sound, it did affect it in a negative way compared to the setup i was using before trying them out.
 Some notes must be taken into account that all bada's have been modded differently and probably "need" also different sounding tubes. Also pataburd preferred a different setup!

 Ears, preference and age come into play here.

 All that matters is that all people are happy with their modded or unmodded bada's and that some are still seeking for the boundary of the limits of the bada.

 I know that i will do at least one major upgrade to the bada, that will take it to an even higher level, and that's probably it for me.
 Too much tinkering with the sound you like at present may end in a disaster!(not every change is a good one!)

 I am however delighted to hear that you've found the last word in cables.

 Collaboration finally sprouts its fruits! We have been exchanging ideas and hopefully it will result in the cable we both were looking for.

 I am quite sure that the current cable is not the one i will be using in the future.


----------



## pataburd

Blackgates at the PSU, ERSEs to replace the Solens, a Furutech fuse and teflon tube sockets. That'll do it for me for good while. : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blackgates at the PSU, ERSEs to replace the Solens, a Furutech fuse and teflon tube sockets. That'll do it for me for good while. : )_

 

There you go, in the end, YOU have to be pleased with it. You'll have the most urgent upgrades done. I was also thinking of new tube sockets, maybe later as well when the major upgrade is done. maybe a new chasis as well, so i can cram in more goodies.


----------



## hornet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There you go, in the end, YOU have to be pleased with it. You'll have the most urgent upgrades done. I was also thinking of new tube sockets, maybe later as well when the major upgrade is done. maybe a new chasis as well, so i can cram in more goodies._

 

Pataburd, Tourmaline, I agree with you. Modding my Bada has given me happiness and satisfaction, and I am very happy with my Black Gates/Mundorf Supreme combo. I burn the Bada in in every night, and switch it off in the morning; when I go back home from office in the evening I listen a couple of CD and make acoustic comparisons with the evening before... Its a small but pleasant satisfaction that makes me happy. I am also planning future upgrades, whith no hurry. It's my way to enjoy my Bada, some will perhaps do it in different ways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Regards,
 Hornet


----------



## pataburd

Agreed. The (stock) Bada Ph-12 provides a sound platform for formulating mods, and really responds well by "delivering" the modded goods--in spades! With its versatility, I believe that I have found my reference amp for a good, long while, too. : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. The (stock) Bada Ph-12 provides a sound platform for formulating mods, and really responds well by "delivering" the modded goods--in spades! With its versatility, I believe that I have found my reference amp for a good, long while, too. : )_

 

Same here, when i am done modding, i will only try to optimize the system around the bada.


----------



## pataburd

Mod Update: 
 As the teflon tube sockets make their way S. . . L. . . O. . . W. . . L. . . Y to the southern U.S. from Hong Kong, I am getting Fitz's advice and consent about fitting a crossfeed circuit in the Bada. : ) I'm looking at a two- or three-step Meier circuit. The crossfeed feature on the [AK]Zip HA-1, Mk.II that I am using at work is very enjoyable, IMHO.

 Question: Does the crossfeed circuit warrant upgraded components? 

 In addition, Fitz is evaluating/addressing the output coupling capacitors running from the impedance switch--they're electrolytics; I may have these upgraded as well (Mundorfs may be in the Bada's future at last!).

 Lastly, some additional surprises--but I won't spoil them--may be in the offing with respect to improving the Bada's heat dissipation! : )


----------



## hornet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mod Update: 
 As the teflon tube sockets make their way S. . . L. . . O. . . W. . . L. . . Y to the southern U.S. from Hong Kong, I am getting Fitz's advice and consent about fitting a crossfeed circuit in the Bada. : ) I'm looking at a two- or three-step Meier circuit. The crossfeed feature on the [AK]Zip HA-1, Mk.II that I am using at work is very enjoyable, IMHO.

 Question: Does the crossfeed circuit warrant upgraded components? 

 In addition, Fitz is evaluating/addressing the output coupling capacitors running from the impedance switch--they're electrolytics; I may have these upgraded as well (Mundorfs may be in the Bada's future at last!).

 Lastly, some additional surprises--but I won't spoil them--may be in the offing with respect to improving the Bada's heat dissipation! : )_

 

Cool...! Another example of the virtually unlimited modding potential of Bada. Jumping to your reference to your HA-1, I would like to being able to enjoy some good music at work. I noticed that Meier's site they don't sell the HA-1 anymore. Is there a correponding model among the ones currently sold? Could I use it with my ipod? Any suggestions for a good matching headphones? Thanks a lot, I know very little about portables (the few things that I know obviously come from head-fi) but I would like to learn your personal opinion... 
 Best regards,
 Hornet


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mod Update: 
 As the teflon tube sockets make their way S. . . L. . . O. . . W. . . L. . . Y to the southern U.S. from Hong Kong, I am getting Fitz's advice and consent about fitting a crossfeed circuit in the Bada. : ) I'm looking at a two- or three-step Meier circuit. The crossfeed feature on the [AK]Zip HA-1, Mk.II that I am using at work is very enjoyable, IMHO.

 Question: Does the crossfeed circuit warrant upgraded components? 

 In addition, Fitz is evaluating/addressing the output coupling capacitors running from the impedance switch--they're electrolytics; I may have these upgraded as well (Mundorfs may be in the Bada's future at last!).

 Lastly, some additional surprises--but I won't spoil them--may be in the offing with respect to improving the Bada's heat dissipation! : )_

 

I did away with the high and low impedance, it didn't do anything anyway.

 You're not using cooling fans huh? Or as Stuart and i also brainstormed, chipset coolers on the mosfets!!!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hornet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool...! Another example of the virtually unlimited modding potential of Bada. Jumping to your reference to your HA-1, I would like to being able to enjoy some good music at work. I noticed that Meier's site they don't sell the HA-1 anymore. Is there a correponding model among the ones currently sold? Could I use it with my ipod? Any suggestions for a good matching headphones? Thanks a lot, I know very little about portables (the few things that I know obviously come from head-fi) but I would like to learn your personal opinion... 
 Best regards,
 Hornet_

 

Hornet,
 The Arietta is probably the closest, current equivalent to the HA-1, Mk.II. But if you are running an iPod, the Cantata (w/built-in DAC) would probably be more suitable. 

 Neither the Arietta nor the Cantata would be considered portables, though, rather small desktop amps.

 I'm using the HA-1 to drive the SR-80 directly from my computer DVD/CD drive, and it sounds more than adequate for my modest, office needs. : )
 PAB


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did away with the high and low impedance, it didn't do anything anyway.

 You're not using cooling fans huh? Or as Stuart and i also brainstormed, chipset coolers on the mosfets!!!_

 

Tour,
 Did/can you do away with those output coupling caps altogether? From what Fitz has reported, there are two 330uF electrolytic capacitors on that impedance switch, providing 330uF in the "high" position and 660uF in the "low" position. 

 Fitz also gave me a formula I'd never used before for computing the "corner" frequency--the target low frequency before roll-off, based on output capacitance and headphone impedance. For the Bada to make the design/specified 16Hz for the (120 ohm) K501--wouldn't a FLAT 16Hz be great from the K501? : )--, the formula says that I'd need about 850uF from those capacitors. 

 If I shoot for the design/specified 5Hz for the (25 ohm) D5000, I'd need almost 13,000uF!

 Anyway, I'm thinking maybe 2x 2200uF (Blackgate or Jensen--if they'll fit!). That would give me, theoretically, a "clean" 15Hz for the D5000, and still provide the 16Hz for the K501. Or maybe I should just dispense with low impedance headphones (i.e. lower than the K501's 120 ohms) altogether. In that case, 2x 450uF would be sufficient.

 Have also ordered up the parts for the crossfeed circuit (including Cardas, Auri- and Multi- caps, and Tantalum, Shinkoh and Riken resistors). : )

 The cooling design will be forthcoming, but whether it can/will completely do away with the outboard fan is still pending. It's really Fitz's doing! : )
 PAB


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did away with the high and low impedance, it didn't do anything anyway.

 You're not using cooling fans huh? Or as Stuart and i also brainstormed, chipset coolers on the mosfets!!!_

 

It just toggles in and out an additional 330uF coupling capacitor per channel, which will not make an immediately noticable difference even with low impedance headphones.

 What I'm doing to address the cooling is a bit more involved than simply strapping some chipset coolers onto the MOSFETs. I _may_ be able to do away with any cooling fans completely, depending on the effectiveness of this, but mine (I have a damaged Bada I am repairing for myself) will have some significant differences from stock ones or even the modded ones I've seen here, so it would not be truly indicative of how well it works for an amp using the original circuit (even with upgraded components). The biggest roadblock to removing the fan will be the fact that mine is going to have a higher heat output than a normal Bada, which is initially why I began working on improving the cooling in such a manner.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did/can you do away with those output coupling caps altogether?_

 

They can't be done away completely without using a different kind of output stage. Removing the switch just does away with the ability to change whether one or two capacitors are connected per channel. You still need something there to protect the headphones from a very large DC offset. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I also sent you a PM to clarify some about the high-pass filter and how it applies to the headphones.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Did/can you do away with those output coupling caps altogether? From what Fitz has reported, there are two 330uF electrolytic capacitors on that impedance switch, providing 330uF in the "high" position and 660uF in the "low" position. 

 Fitz also gave me a formula I'd never used before for computing the "corner" frequency--the target low frequency before roll-off, based on output capacitance and headphone impedance. For the Bada to make the design/specified 16Hz for the (120 ohm) K501--wouldn't a FLAT 16Hz be great from the K501? : )--, the formula says that I'd need about 850uF from those capacitors. 

 If I shoot for the design/specified 5Hz for the (25 ohm) D5000, I'd need almost 13,000uF!

 Anyway, I'm thinking maybe 2x 2200uF (Blackgate or Jensen--if they'll fit!). That would give me, theoretically, a "clean" 15Hz for the D5000, and still provide the 16Hz for the K501. Or maybe I should just dispense with low impedance headphones (i.e. lower than the K501's 120 ohms) altogether. In that case, 2x 450uF would be sufficient.

 Have also ordered up the parts for the crossfeed circuit (including Cardas, Auri- and Multi- caps, and Tantalum, Shinkoh and Riken resistors). : )

 The cooling design will be forthcoming, but whether it can/will completely do away with the outboard fan is still pending. It's really Fitz's doing! : )
 PAB_

 

I just know that the prof. modders did away with it. How, i dunno but they did.

 I would do just that, make the amp as good as it can for your headphones you like best.

 There's no real gain in compromises at this stage.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just toggles in and out an additional 330uF coupling capacitor per channel, which will not make an immediately noticable difference even with low impedance headphones.

 What I'm doing to address the cooling is a bit more involved than simply strapping some chipset coolers onto the MOSFETs. I may be able to do away with any cooling fans completely, depending on the effectiveness of this, but mine (I have a damaged Bada I am repairing for myself) will have some significant differences from stock ones or even the modded ones I've seen here, so it would not be truly indicative of how well it works for an amp using the original circuit (even with upgraded components). The biggest roadblock to removing the fan will be the fact that mine is going to have a higher heat output than a normal Bada, which is initially why I began working on improving the cooling in such a manner.




 They can't be done away completely without using a different kind of output stage. Removing the switch just does away with the ability to change whether one or two capacitors are connected per channel. You still need something there to protect the headphones from a very large DC offset. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also sent you a PM to clarify some about the high-pass filter and how it applies to the headphones._

 

There isn't much stock in my modded bada either, being components or design!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am curious of what you'll come up with.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just know that the prof. modders did away with it. How, i dunno but they did.

 I would do just that, make the amp as good as it can for your headphones you like best.

 There's no real gain in compromises at this stage._

 

Tour,
 Fitz is going to replace the 2x 330uF per channel with 1x 3300uF/50v. That will provide a "clean" 20Hz for the 25 ohm D5000. 
 PAB

 EDIT: 
 Make that 1x 4700uF/50v. The supplier ran out of 3300uF. They'll be Nichicon "Gold Tune" electrolytics. : )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Fitz is going to replace the 2x 330uF per channel with 1x 3300uF/50v. That will provide a "clean" 20Hz for the 25 ohm D5000. 
 PAB_

 

Nice!


----------



## tourmaline

Fitz, the only thing i can think of is that you might make it into a full tube design? get rid of the transistors/mosfets and replace them with tubes, wich will disspate the heat and will not blow easally.


----------



## Black Stuart

Fitz,
 it will be interesting to see what you come up with. Just a point I'd like to raise about the Philips caps you used in Pataburd's Bada - were these 150uF/450V, if so that means that the value of these caps has been raised nearly 3 times from the original value. I have been searching for a good quality 56uF cap and can only find a Mundorf Mcap, Nichicon or Panasonic - I may have to settle for a BG.

 You obviously have a lot more technical knowledge than me so here's a log to throw on the fire - how easy do you think it would be to change the Bada into a power amp?

 I know that I can change the mosfet o/put by using different power resistors in front of the mosfets but what else do I need to do if anything? Eg. do I need to create a buffer stage as well?

 By changing the Bada into a power amp (I only need about 5-10W) I will deal with the extra heat by using some big chipset coolers - Thermaltake etc.

 However this does'nt take care of the tubes and for those of us that use the best - Syl/TS/1578/Philips we need to be mindful of this. When I finally dismantle the Bada I intend to use if possible alu tubing crimped at the top, because the 1578s' produce all their heat at the top of the tube and so direct all the cooling air to this area.

 Has anyone who has dropped the value of the 1uF caps to .47uF noticed that this considerably lowers the temp. of the driver tube, so much so that I can keep my fingers on top of this tube. No if my idea works for the other tubes this should double or treble the life of the tubes - just a thought.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fitz, the only thing i can think of is that you might make it into a full tube design? get rid of the transistors/mosfets and replace them with tubes, wich will disspate the heat and will not blow easally._

 

No... it will still use the MOSFET source follower as the output stage; I don't have enough knowledge of tube circuit design to want to try coming up with something new in the limited space. Although it won't be for several months until I can truly determine any results due to the very cold temperatures right now (equipment I know normally runs hot to the touch is barely warm at all right now), I'll probably be posting at least preliminary results soon enough.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a point I'd like to raise about the Philips caps you used in Pataburd's Bada - were these 150uF/450V, if so that means that the value of these caps has been raised nearly 3 times from the original value._

 

It is the capacitor Patrick chose to have installed in the Bada, but yes it is 150uF. They're just reservoir capacitors for the tubes... the exact value is not all that critical.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You obviously have a lot more technical knowledge than me so here's a log to throw on the fire - how easy do you think it would be to change the Bada into a power amp?

 I know that I can change the mosfet o/put by using different power resistors in front of the mosfets but what else do I need to do if anything? Eg. do I need to create a buffer stage as well?

 By changing the Bada into a power amp (I only need about 5-10W) I will deal with the extra heat by using some big chipset coolers - Thermaltake etc._

 

Doable up to a point. There's two main things that have to be considered. One is how much current you can pull off the 70VCT winding of the transformer, although some quick and dirty testing I did before would suggest it isn't close to being fully loaded so light speaker loads should be possible (I would only need less than 1 watt for my desktop speakers, so I didn't really try to figure out the actual limits). The other is the heat, which is exacerbated by the unnecessarily high voltage used for the MOSFETs. Because it's running as a source follower, the quiescent current has to be set past the most current you intend to draw from it, or else the bottom half of the waveform will start clipping. With the quiescent current set high enough to allow it to supply 5 to 10 watts to a pair of speakers, you're definitely talking about some major heat. You'll definitely need a good connection between the MOSFETs and those big chipset coolers, and the resistors will need some major cooling too, either by using heat-sink mountable resistors on the coolers as well, or with some always on fans blowing over them.

 The output coupling capacitors will also need to be drastically increased in size, unless you want your speakers to have absolutely no bass whatsoever. The tricky part about this comes in the fact that there is limited room to add good quality capacitors in there. The blazing hot MOSFET source resistors aren't going to be standing there in the way on mine like the stock design, so it gives me more room to play with, but you'll have to be very careful about the physical size of the capacitors regardless.

 - - -

 I'm a bit burnt out right now between the solder fumes, drill press rumbling, and loud music, so I apologize in advance if I said anything weird or made some dumb mistakes in what I wrote.


----------



## tourmaline

Fitz;5031393 said:
			
		

> It is the capacitor Patrick chose to have installed in the Bada, but yes it is 150uF. They're just reservoir capacitors for the tubes... the exact value is not all that critical.
> 
> yes, that's exactly what they told me too. caps for the tubes.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Fitz,
 thanks for the answers.

 Re. heat - using fans and not using the bottom plate on the Bada, I don't have a problem with heat at all, except in the summer when the ambient temperature in the partment is always around 83F but this in part comes from the stupid idea of Bada siting the mains Tx on top of the chassis.

 This not only heats up the Tx but also stops a lot of heat dissipation from the mosfets.

 Like Tourmaline, I intend to remove the Tx completely from the chassis but also the PSU which as you know comes on a seperate PCB.

 Cap size should not be a problem because of not using the bottom plate and I use a slate chassis on which the Bada sits.

 I had toyed with the idea of buying the power Bada but cannot believe that using only 2 tubes is a good idea (they would have to be perfectly matched) and that Bada have chosen to cram everything into the same sized chassis.

 By cutting out the top plate to allow direct fixing of the mosfets to the cooler baseplates and using fans I'm sure they will run cooler than they do now.

 On diyforums on the Moskido thread (maybe I will build one) I did suggest using active cooling and though Beau who innovated the Moskido using Broskie's Aikido board still chooses to use only giant heat sinks, many have chosen to use active cooling.

 For the future I intend to use 'remote active cooling' so any noise from fans will be eliminated by virtue of distance and using sound damping in the first few metres of conduit.

 It was Tourmaline who first suggested fan cooling and this all tied in with my hatred of air conditioning and using an Arab idea used extensively when Spain was still a civilised country - Al-Andaluz.

 The Arabs built homes in such a way that air was drawn over water that never saw the sun and so lived in lovely well built cool homes - a complete contrast to the crap the Spanish build now.

 In fact I intend to cool all my equipment this way. If you have a home built off the ground on piles as many American and Oz homes are this is easy to do - in summer draw the air in via alu piping actually situated in the water and switch to ambient air use in winter. 

 I don't envisage having to use a very powerful fan, probably 30W should do it, I just need to enlist the help of a good university engineering dept. to work out pipe diameters to determine airflows.

 B


----------



## Black Stuart

NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN (yeh,yeh I know James Bond and all that).

 I'm not finished with the Bada, I left out modding a whole set of components, namely - the resistors.

 In the process of replacing ALL the components in the original Lehman Black Cube phono stage, I seriously began to research resistors.

 Couple this with lots of emails between myself and Beau of Moskido fame (he raves about Vishay S102s) and a whole new ballpark opens up.

 I'm going to use 'naked Vishays' for the signal path but I'm not sure about what to use for those resistors not in the signal path.

 I would have liked to use Reidon/Powertron thin film Rs in these positions but there is a conflict of interest as explained to me by the European sales manager for Powertron (Germany).

 I cannot send emails to Reidon in California, they just get bounced back. This maybe my computer or it maybe like the Eichman bullit plug) site that automatically refers you to some company that sells their products in your geographical zone.

 Can anyone help me out with getting prices for the Reidon series of - USR 2-0808 & USR 2-1510. I'll bet that the USA prices are much cheaper than European ones (how much can we rip them off for).

 Already after some mods on the phono stage I can clearly hear noise and I'll bet that's from the cheap metal film 1/8th W resistors.

 So, if anyone in the States can send an email to get pricers on the series quoted, I would be grateful.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN (yeh,yeh I know James Bond and all that).

 I'm not finished with the Bada, I left out modding a whole set of components, namely - the resistors.

 In the process of replacing ALL the components in the original Lehman Black Cube phono stage, I seriously began to research resistors.

 Couple this with lots of emails between myself and Beau of Moskido fame (he raves about Vishay S102s) and a whole new ballpark opens up.

 I'm going to use 'naked Vishays' for the signal path but I'm not sure about what to use for those resistors not in the signal path.

 I would have liked to use Reidon/Powertron thin film Rs in these positions but there is a conflict of interest as explained to me by the European sales manager for Powertron (Germany).

 I cannot send emails to Reidon in California, they just get bounced back. This maybe my computer or it maybe like the Eichman bullit plug) site that automatically refers you to some company that sells their products in your geographical zone.

 Can anyone help me out with getting prices for the Reidon series of - USR 2-0808 & USR 2-1510. I'll bet that the USA prices are much cheaper than European ones (how much can we rip them off for).

 Already after some mods on the phono stage I can clearly hear noise and I'll bet that's from the cheap metal film 1/8th W resistors.

 So, if anyone in the States can send an email to get pricers on the series quoted, I would be grateful._

 

Stuart,
 Regarding the Riedon resisitors, I e-mailed you, via hotmail, a week or two ago. Please tell me the quantity of each that you need. The Riedon website had a default 1000 piece order(!). Let me know, and I'll continue the process of getting the quote. If there are few enough, you might qualify for a sample order.

 Digikey is an authorized distributor for Riedon resistors in my (New York State) area.
 Patrick

 EDIT: Stuart, I just put in an RFQ with Digikey for 25-50 each of the Reidon resistors you denoted.


----------



## drarthurwells

Email received: "I was wondering if you still feel as strongly as you did in your review of the Bada PH12, or if a new option has come along since that you would consider if you were in the market for a headphone amp."

 Answer: I have been looking for a better amp than the Bada 12 for years, but all-tube amps seem to lack the sharp transient attacks and tone resolution (both tone edge and tone body resolution) afforded by the mosfet output and tube pre-amp of the Bada 12.

 I use a Chinese NTA 6922 tube pre-amp with a Classe' solid state amp in my home system and love the sound of a tube preamp with a SS amp. This is what the Bada 12 gives me with its tube pre-amp and SS amp combination in one headphone amp.


----------



## pataburd

I, too, enjoyed a tube pre-amp (the Kora Triode) with a SS amp (the Plinius SA-100, Mk.II) back in days gone by.

 Since owning and appreciating the PH-12, and especially with the last two rounds of mods, I have no desire to experiment with other headphone amps for a good long while.

 I'm solidly with the good doctor on this one! : )


----------



## Black Stuart

I agree with everything Art & Pataburd say.

 There is just something intrinsically right about a valve/tube pre coupled with a mosfet o/put or maybe a classD o/put.

 I have a lovely modded KT88/6550 valve power amp but it just can´t match the bass detail/slam and timbre that I get from The Bada.

 I don´t like the look of the all singing and dancing Bada - too much crammed into too small a space and with only 2 valves, they will need to be truly balanced or you will hear the differences in the channels.

 A healthy New Year to all dedicated Headfiers´.


----------



## nae45ro

Finally replaced my M-audio firewire audiophile with Benchmark DAC-1 USB and wow...what a change. All the agressivity is now gone. The noise I was hearing is also gone and the level of micro details is outstanding. Finally the Bada can now benefit of one great source !


----------



## Black Stuart

Well,
 I managed to get some samples of the Vishay Z foils for my Lehman phono stage mods.

 As they included 2 x 47K, I just had to try them as shunts with the Alps Blue in the Bada.

 I replaced the Welwyn RC55Y with these not knowing quite what to expect.

 For the first 2-3 hours whilst there is a delicate softness to the sound these Z foils are undoubtedly a big improvement on the Welwyns but after this time the difference can only be described as 'a whole order better'.

 As my beloved KD990 is out of action until I can source new transistors and diodes, I have had to fall back on my 63KI CDP.

 These Z foils surpass the difference made by my hand made silver coupling caps and ERSE caps put together.

 It's as if they have hosed away the 'grime' of noise that overlaid everything from the existing Welwyn shunts.

 How to describe the sound - at a stroke it has removed the digital hardness of CD leaving a beautifully clear, liquid soundstage. It's as if I have been pushed much closer to singers and musicians. Piano has all the timbre and depth and decay of notes that one hears at a live concert. I could almost reach out and put my arm around Natalie Merchant/Ophelia. I've never experienced being able to almost visualise the faces of singers. Voices have become almost 3D.

 This has to be the easiest mod for anyone to do. Just desolder the signal wires from the pot at the PCB and solder the resistors between signal wire and PCB. Yes there will be a 6dB drop but for those who only use CDP/DVD this is no bad thing as 2V maybe a tad too much for the Bada anyway.

 I am just about to order a whole batch of naked S102/0.05% tolerance. I have a gut feeling that I will gain nothing by paying a lot more for the Z foils.

 I have since used 4 x 1K but need to use another 4 x 100K and 2 x 10K so that all the signal resistors are Vishay bulk metal foil.

 Cheap they are not but are worth every penny and then some. I cannot rec. the use of these resistors enough.

 I intend to change most if not all signal path resistors with these incredible components. If you google them you will find all those who have tried them to rave on - it is'nt hype or b/s it's for real. Good advice is never use all of one type of resistor - until now - these resistors are as close as you can get to using a piece of wire.

 Vishay naked S102/0.05% @ $9.79 each from Texas Instruments have to be outstanding value for the wonderful difference they make to the overall sund of your Bada - buy qwith confidence.


----------



## tourmaline

I have some change of planes, not really a change, i am continue-ing the upgrades to the bada but i plan some more things to be done.

 I plan on getting two very nice all alluminium cases and put the amplifier section with new teflon sockets and some new chassis headphone plugs (neutrik) in the new case and the other case seperately for the powersupply and powersection!

 This way i have much more room for larger components, might be able to cool the mosfets passively and upgrade the standard transformer for a custom one in future that suppose to bring the bada even to a higher level of realism.

 I have to replace the chassis headphone plugs anyway, so doing so with a new chassis is much easier! Also more room to try out much larger caps etc.


 pataburd, i haven't been here for a while but i figured you would have finished your second mod allready!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drarthurwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Email received: "I was wondering if you still feel as strongly as you did in your review of the Bada PH12, or if a new option has come along since that you would consider if you were in the market for a headphone amp."

 Answer: I have been looking for a better amp than the Bada 12 for years, but all-tube amps seem to lack the sharp transient attacks and tone resolution (both tone edge and tone body resolution) afforded by the mosfet output and tube pre-amp of the Bada 12.

 I use a Chinese NTA 6922 tube pre-amp with a Classe' solid state amp in my home system and love the sound of a tube preamp with a SS amp. This is what the Bada 12 gives me with its tube pre-amp and SS amp combination in one headphone amp._

 

Exactly, i've heard much more exensive amps, also loads of really high end amps and some are not even close to the sound the bada is portraying...the sound of the instruments is really organic and real...especially after the mod!

 Re fast speed and transients...this suppose to be possible in a tube amp, but you need very, very expensive transformers for that. Most of the time tube amps seems to be slow, not so with the bada!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well,
 I managed to get some samples of the Vishay Z foils for my Lehman phono stage mods.

 As they included 2 x 47K, I just had to try them as shunts with the Alps Blue in the Bada.

 I replaced the Welwyn RC55Y with these not knowing quite what to expect.

 For the first 2-3 hours whilst there is a delicate softness to the sound these Z foils are undoubtedly a big improvement on the Welwyns but after this time the difference can only be described as 'a whole order better'.

 As my beloved KD990 is out of action until I can source new transistors and diodes, I have had to fall back on my 63KI CDP.

 These Z foils surpass the difference made by my hand made silver coupling caps and ERSE caps put together.

 It's as if they have hosed away the 'grime' of noise that overlaid everything from the existing Welwyn shunts.

 How to describe the sound - at a stroke it has removed the digital hardness of CD leaving a beautifully clear, liquid soundstage. It's as if I have been pushed much closer to singers and musicians. Piano has all the timbre and depth and decay of notes that one hears at a live concert. I could almost reach out and put my arm around Natalie Merchant/Ophelia. I've never experienced being able to almost visualise the faces of singers. Voices have become almost 3D.

 This has to be the easiest mod for anyone to do. Just desolder the signal wires from the pot at the PCB and solder the resistors between signal wire and PCB. Yes there will be a 6dB drop but for those who only use CDP/DVD this is no bad thing as 2V maybe a tad too much for the Bada anyway.

 I am just about to order a whole batch of naked S102/0.05% tolerance. I have a gut feeling that I will gain nothing by paying a lot more for the Z foils.

 I have since used 4 x 1K but need to use another 4 x 100K and 2 x 10K so that all the signal resistors are Vishay bulk metal foil.

 Cheap they are not but are worth every penny and then some. I cannot rec. the use of these resistors enough.

 I intend to change most if not all signal path resistors with these incredible components. If you google them you will find all those who have tried them to rave on - it is'nt hype or b/s it's for real. Good advice is never use all of one type of resistor - until now - these resistors are as close as you can get to using a piece of wire.

 Vishay naked S102/0.05% @ $9.79 each from Texas Instruments have to be outstanding value for the wonderful difference they make to the overall sund of your Bada - buy qwith confidence._

 

Stuart, what you did with your shunted pot, i allready got with the high end pot! Also beware that the resistors in another place might not yield as great an effect!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some change of planes, not really a change, i am continue-ing the upgrades to the bada but i plan some more things to be done.

 I plan on getting two very nice all alluminium cases and put the amplifier section with new teflon sockets and some new chassis headphone plugs (neutrik) in the new case and the other case seperately for the powersupply and powersection!

 This way i have much more room for larger components, might be able to cool the mosfets passively and upgrade the standard transformer for a custom one in future that suppose to bring the bada even to a higher level of realism.

 I have to replace the chassis headphone plugs anyway, so doing so with a new chassis is much easier! Also more room to try out much larger caps etc.


 pataburd, i haven't been here for a while but i figured you would have finished your second mod allready!_

 

Tour,
 Fitz just fitted the Elma switch for the 3-level Meier crossfeed circuit. And there are some other "surprises" in store. . . ? ? ? It's gone beyond the scope of the Level 2 mods, and is venturing into the Fitz-Max Bada PH-12 "ULTRA"! : )

 PAB


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tour,
 Fitz just fitted the Elma switch for the 3-level Meier crossfeed circuit. And there are some other "surprises" in store. . . ? ? ? It's gone beyond the scope of the Level 2 mods, and is venturing into the Fitz-Max Bada PH-12 "ULTRA"! : )

 PAB_

 

Why do you want crossfeed on the bada? You know it generates fake 3d image effect!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why do you want crossfeed on the bada? You know it generates fake 3d image effect!_

 

It's defeatable, Tour. Crossfeed is a nice option once in a while, especially for older stereo recordings with stark channel separation, at least for me. And, like I mentioned earlier, it is defeatable. : )


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some change of planes, not really a change, i am continue-ing the upgrades to the bada but i plan some more things to be done.

 I plan on getting two very nice all alluminium cases and put the amplifier section with new teflon sockets and some new chassis headphone plugs (neutrik) in the new case and the other case seperately for the powersupply and powersection!

 This way i have much more room for larger components, might be able to cool the mosfets passively and upgrade the standard transformer for a custom one in future that suppose to bring the bada even to a higher level of realism.

 I have to replace the chassis headphone plugs anyway, so doing so with a new chassis is much easier! Also more room to try out much larger caps etc.


 pataburd, i haven't been here for a while but i figured you would have finished your second mod allready!_

 

I'm finally in the process of reassembling my Bada with the new output stage, and if all goes well I'll have it running within a couple weeks (by the end of the week if I'm lucky) able to drive a fair bit of power into speakers with entirely passive cooling. I don't really want to say much more than that until I've done some actual real world tests with it, just in case I've gone and wired something up backwards and let the magic smoke out when I first turn it on. Gonna finish up most of the soldering on it tonight, and then wait for the remaining odds and ends to arrive.

 If you're sticking with the stock output stage, you'd do well to get some better cooling on the mosfets' source resistors too, as they're dissipating more heat than the mosfets. I really don't know what they were thinking with that... 45V supply on a headphone buffer, and most of the heat dissipated in resistors that get no real cooling at all.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm finally in the process of reassembling my Bada with the new output stage, and if all goes well I'll have it running within a couple weeks (by the end of the week if I'm lucky) able to drive a fair bit of power into speakers with entirely passive cooling. I don't really want to say much more than that until I've done some actual real world tests with it, just in case I've gone and wired something up backwards and let the magic smoke out when I first turn it on. Gonna finish up most of the soldering on it tonight, and then wait for the remaining odds and ends to arrive.

 If you're sticking with the stock output stage, you'd do well to get some better cooling on the mosfets' source resistors too, as they're dissipating more heat than the mosfets. I really don't know what they were thinking with that... 45V supply on a headphone buffer, and most of the heat dissipated in resistors that get no real cooling at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Also planning on getting 3 new tube sockets as well. Beginning to collect the needed components for the 3rd step of modding.

 these suppose to be the best around, expensive but apperently worth the money! if you want to change them for others, why not get these and be done.

*Yamamoto teflon tube sockets.*


 As for the heat, i use 2 x 12 cm papst fans, remember?! Everything is ice cold after 3-4 hours of operation!

 While you're at it, change the very cheap *headphone chassis sockets *for some neutrik ones. Mine is gone loose...i can swirl the peahphone plug around in it...no contact as well! They are not really that expensive at all, some 12 euro's a piece and much better build.

 The bada is a nice sounding amp, but the lack of quality components is really showing through.

 re source resistors: i use welwyn 24 watts resistors in that position. One long resistor completely repalces those 4 ones close together, much better heat dissapation!


----------



## Black Stuart

Fitz,
 looking forward to your input on the Bada's o/put stage and I can't agree more about waiting till you can post something conclusive - it's easy to get lost in euphoria.

 Re. the M/source resistors - could'nt agree more and that's why MrT and I use fan cooling.

 I had hoped to have built a house here in Spain using an alternative to air-conditioning, no matter I'll do that in France and use the same simple system to cool all my hi-fi gear.

 Do think about buying a pair of Vishay S102 for shunts. If Mr T could hear the shunted Alps Blue, he would never have spent serious money on the Dutch linear pots.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fitz,
 looking forward to your input on the Bada's o/put stage and I can't agree more about waiting till you can post something conclusive - it's easy to get lost in euphoria.

 Re. the M/source resistors - could'nt agree more and that's why MrT and I use fan cooling.

 I had hoped to have built a house here in Spain using an alternative to air-conditioning, no matter I'll do that in France and use the same simple system to cool all my hi-fi gear.

 Do think about buying a pair of Vishay S102 for shunts. If Mr T could hear the shunted Alps Blue, he would never have spent serious money on the Dutch linear pots._

 

Could be, first things first! I found a dutch website selling the alps blue for just 12 euro's a piece.

 I also looked into the pots again, it seems the price i paid for this high end pot is not really that exaggerated, concerning most are 150 and up!

 Once i got everything fitted in new housing, i can change things much, much easier!


----------



## tourmaline

Some thought:

 wich would give a bigger improvement in sound, the new sennheiser hd800 or the new stuff for the bada...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (bada including improvements in the powersection, new high end transformer and regulator, teflon yamamoto tube sockets, neutrik headphone chassis etc.)...versus the hd800.


----------



## Fitz

Looking good so far on the new output stage, after doing a brief powerup on it. As expected I have the bias adjustment range set wrong (realized it almost immediately after I soldered it up), making ~600mA the minimum amount it can be set to... yeeeah that was brilliant. Everything else checked out alright, so after swapping a couple resistors tomorrow to fix the bias adjustment, I may be able to temporarily rig it up and see if any music comes out.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking good so far on the new output stage, after doing a brief powerup on it. As expected I have the bias adjustment range set wrong (realized it almost immediately after I soldered it up), making ~600mA the minimum amount it can be set to... yeeeah that was brilliant. Everything else checked out alright, so after swapping a couple resistors tomorrow to fix the bias adjustment, I may be able to temporarily rig it up and see if any music comes out._

 

YAY! Go, Fitz! This is some of the most exciting news ever to grace this thread.

 Please be liberal with the pictures . . . : )


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some thought:

 wich would give a bigger improvement in sound, the new sennheiser hd800 or the new stuff for the bada...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (bada including improvements in the powersection, new high end transformer and regulator, teflon yamamoto tube sockets, neutrik headphone chassis etc.)...versus the hd800._

 

At this point, maybe the HD800. But it's hard to resist not finding out now the Bada will respond to further upgrades. I'm happy enough with the K501 to forego the HD800 for a while, anyway. : )


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 the Senns are serious money @ $1500, 0.5W, 47K, S102s are $9.79 each, Z foils a few dollars more from Texas Components and they are good people to deal with as well, I can't reccomend them enough.

 I need just one Bada owner to lay out for the Vishays, so I know I'm not delusional.

 Fitz is this o/put mod contained within the original chassis and what is the best way to lengthen the Tx wiring?

 I ask because I intend to do what Mr T has done, which is remove the Tx from the top plate. I also will remove the PSU section which conveniently is all on it's own PCB.

 A thought here - I wonder if the Bada people are watching us create a new product for them - I know I would be.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pataburd,
 the Senns are serious money @ $1500, 0.5W, 47K, S102s are $9.79 each, Z foils a few dollars more from Texas Components and they are good people to deal with as well, I can't reccomend them enough.

 I need just one Bada owner to lay out for the Vishays, so I know I'm not delusional.

 Fitz is this o/put mod contained within the original chassis and what is the best way to lengthen the Tx wiring?

 I ask because I intend to do what Mr T has done, which is remove the Tx from the top plate. I also will remove the PSU section which conveniently is all on it's own PCB.

 A thought here - I wonder if the Bada people are watching us create a new product for them - I know I would be._

 

Stuart, the sennheiser hd800 suppose to be a serious high end headphone...and are *JUST* 1400 dollars.LOL.


 You know i will try out some vishay's...maybe later...need so many things and it all cost money.LOL.


----------



## Fitz

Patrick:
 I'll post pictures after the other odds and ends are done as well -- you know what I'm talking about.

 Black Stuart:
 Yeah, it's entirely within the original chassis... though how I did it does require some amount of shuffling components around and drilling new holes in the PCB and chassis.

 If you just want to extend the xfrmer wiring, you could just solder new wires onto them and heatshrink over it, or stick all the wires from it on a molex connector, and add a matching connector with new wires of the necessary length. Some equipment I work with has the xfrmer hardwired to the mains, and connects to the equipment with a molex plug like I described, which works great for servicing or modding as is the case here. If you put it in a separate chassis, then you'd essentially be doing the same thing with the jumper cable between the two.

 FWIW in regards to the PSU, since the 45V mosfet supply is completely unregulated, doesn't even have a CRC filter or anything either, I added a LM338 to it to make it steady at 40V and not vary up and down by a few volts depending on the load (or fluctuations in the mains). Doesn't really matter for the stock output stage while driving headphones, but it's still a relatively easy thing to do. I didn't care enough about it to make the PSU anything more complicated than that though.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need just one Bada owner to lay out for the Vishays, so I know I'm not delusional._

 


 Stuart,
 I'm game to spring for the Vishays, and a "resistor revamping" of the Bada! But, well, not just yet . . . : )

 Patrick


----------



## Fitz

Got the Bada temporarily setup for testing last night, and after a few screw-ups (input wiring coming loose, connecting the output without the coupling caps, hooked up to the wrong source, etc) got it playing on headphones and sounding fairly nice despite the added noise caused by lots of alligator clips and unshielded wire. Running it through my bookshelf speakers now and I must say it's sounding very good so far. They're 4 ohm Epos M5's, and I briefly cranked the volume up to around 90dB with no signs of strain; try doing that with a stock Bada. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Despite the fact that I'm awful when it comes to making new circuits, it looks like the new output stage is working properly... push-pull using a 2SK1529/2SJ200 pair instead of the stock source follower on a 2SK1529. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to do all the remaining work on both my and Patrick's Bada, and be able to better judge the sound of it as well as get some meaningful results on its temperature handling (still gotta finish some things to get proper heat dissipation). I'll probably hook it up to my Maggies for that listening session.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got the Bada temporarily setup for testing last night, and after a few screw-ups (input wiring coming loose, connecting the output without the coupling caps, hooked up to the wrong source, etc) got it playing on headphones and sounding fairly nice despite the added noise caused by lots of alligator clips and unshielded wire. Running it through my bookshelf speakers now and I must say it's sounding very good so far. They're 4 ohm Epos M5's, and I briefly cranked the volume up to around 90dB with no signs of strain; try doing that with a stock Bada. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Despite the fact that I'm awful when it comes to making new circuits, it looks like the new output stage is working properly... push-pull using a 2SK1529/2SJ200 pair instead of the stock source follower on a 2SK1529. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to do all the remaining work on both my and Patrick's Bada, and be able to better judge the sound of it as well as get some meaningful results on its temperature handling (still gotta finish some things to get proper heat dissipation). I'll probably hook it up to my Maggies for that listening session._

 


 Any pictures? The alligator clips and exposed wiring have piqued my interest! : )


----------



## Fitz

I'll PM you the pics of the disembowelled amp laying on my workbench.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll PM you the pics of the disembowelled amp laying on my workbench. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I can host em for you, if you need to...


----------



## Fitz

Hosting isn't a problem... I don't really want to post pictures here until I have everything done. Especially not pictures of the mess of how I have it hooked up right now.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hosting isn't a problem... I don't really want to post pictures here until I have everything done. Especially not pictures of the mess of how I have it hooked up right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Fitz,
 When you get everything settled and tidy, those "pre-dawn" pictures of your Super-Charged Bada would prove to be of inestimable scientific, historic and conversational value on this august thread! : )
 Patrick


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hosting isn't a problem... I don't really want to post pictures here until I have everything done. Especially not pictures of the mess of how I have it hooked up right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

We don't mind if it's not pretty, we want to know about the design!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We don't mind if it's not pretty, we want to know about the design!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You might not, but I do. I'd rather it just look like I take the amp and a bunch of parts, stick it in the microwave on "mod" for 5 minutes, then a new amp pops out.

 I have nearly everything done now anyways... been working all day and night over the weekend on several projects. Basically gotta wire everything up then it'll be done, and at that point I'll post pictures.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might not, but I do. I'd rather it just look like I take the amp and a bunch of parts, stick it in the microwave on "mod" for 5 minutes, then a new amp pops out.

 I have nearly everything done now anyways... been working all day and night over the weekend on several projects. Basically gotta wire everything up then it'll be done, and at that point I'll post pictures._

 

Fitz,
 It's the inveterate artist in you speaking. : ) 

 I, for one, can't wait until your magical modding microwave beeps three times--the last beep prolonged--and out pops the Fitz Super-Charged Bada PH-12+++!

 PAB


----------



## Black Stuart

Pataburd,
 Fitz is not a chicken.


----------



## Fitz

No, but I have been called a turkey on occasion.


----------



## Fitz

The Bada has been wired back together and is currently powering my speakers. Much cleaner sound compared to the test run (no test leads causing all sorts of buzzing and noises), sound quality is good, but isn't quite as good as it was for the test. As I was resizing the pictures I noticed that when I was experimenting with some resistor values I must've stuck the wrong ones back in for the final assembly. _Oops_. Easy enough to fix without taking the board back out.

 I think at this point I can call the project a success. I have the amp biased somewhat high for now, so the chassis gets pretty warm, but I expect to reduce the quiescent current for it to run cooler after I'm done testing and playing around. I'll upload pictures shortly.


----------



## Fitz

Everything but the PCB installed and ready for reassembly:







 Output MOSFETs bolted to side of chassis:







 Regulated 40V supply:







 Input / Output connections:


----------



## Fitz

Board overview (bottom side):







 Output stage connections & bias adjustment:







 Board overview (top side):







 Input & biasing for output stage:


----------



## Fitz

Board reinstalled in chassis, ready for wiring:







 Everything wired back together:







 Sitting there calmly making music:


----------



## ServinginEcuador

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but how does the newly modded amp sound? Worthwhile upgrades, or transformational upgrades?

 Thanks!


----------



## Fitz

Just swapped out those problem resistors and the amp is back to sounding wonderful. Dropped the quiescent current way down too to see what the temperature is like at more normal operating conditions.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ServinginEcuador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but how does the newly modded amp sound? Worthwhile upgrades, or transformational upgrades?

 Thanks!_

 

The modifications to the output stage were 95% for the purpose of being able to get enough power into speakers without ridiculous amounts of waste heat. I was originally going to just do the heatsinks and move things to the side of the chassis, but realized there was a lot of wasted potential from the transformer and power supply and decided to make use of it for powering speakers.

 I've never actually heard a stock Bada to compare to... this one was non-functioning due to severe heat damage when I bought it, and pataburd's had a blown mosfet that was replaced at the same time as doing some of the other mods to his amp.


----------



## pataburd

Fitz,
 Thanks for the photo essay, and congratulations on a job well thought out and admirably executed with your hard work and persistence! 

 Your Fitz Bada "Super-Charged" PH-12 is a boon for this thread, and especially encouraging for Stuart. : )

 Congratulations again, and thanks again for posting these pictures, and ENJOY! The Bada is a great amp in its own right (i.e. stock), but you've made it even better and realized its greater potential--literally! : )

 BTW, how is it faring as a headphone amp?
 Patrick


----------



## Fitz

Thanks Patrick, I'm really pleased with how this turned out and didn't give me any major problems. I've been using it mainly for speakers so far while I let things get settled in, since it puts a bigger load on the amp to help find any problems, and they're more resiliant to damage should the amp go haywire. This probably saved a pair of headphones, because I swapped in some used RCA grey glass 6SN7s to use and after a few minutes there was a loud pop from the left speaker, then silence. At first I was freaking out thinking something was wrong with the design and a mosfet decided to self-destruct. Turned out to be one of the weak used tubes decided to completely die at that point, and that voltage spike could've potentially damaged a pair of headphones were they connected. I did finish my tube adapters so I could use some of my NOS 6F8Gs, which are sounding quite lovely with both speakers and headphones (including K1000)...






 I only wish I knew how the stock Bada sounded so I could at least attempt to make a comparison.


----------



## Fitz

Last night I rewired the left tube socket so that the output from the pot goes to pin 4 instead of pin 1 (to match the right tube socket), putting the external wire to the grid cap between the cascaded triodes rather than coming directly after the pot. Only required rerouting a couple components and cutting one trace, all doable without taking the board back out. This seems to have cleared up the faint HF noise I would occasionally get in the left channel when using 6F8Gs. Can't do anything about the middle tube since it's shared by both channels, but there's no gain there so it's no concern anyways.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Last night I rewired the left tube socket so that the output from the pot goes to pin 4 instead of pin 1 (to match the right tube socket), putting the external wire to the grid cap between the cascaded triodes rather than coming directly after the pot. Only required rerouting a couple components and cutting one trace, all doable without taking the board back out. This seems to have cleared up the faint HF noise I would occasionally get in the left channel when using 6F8Gs. Can't do anything about the middle tube since it's shared by both channels, but there's no gain there so it's no concern anyways._

 

hey fitz, i was thinking the same thing, relocating the fets to the side of the panel with a new chassis and using cooling fins, but i am quite sure that active cooling is still more effective and the way to go!

 Huge caps you're using there.LOL.

 In a new chassis, i have much more room to do things with huge size...

 You got ridd of the 6sn7's? i think they are part of the nice sound of the bada.

 By the way, in another bada thread roam suggested to get rid of the fron tube alltogether and bypass and go straight to the 2 output tubes alltogether!

 Looks like a nice and need mod fitz, well done!

 But, there is still alot to gain, if you swap some things for higher quality parts...

 I see you used big polyester caps (PET) for output caps...there are higher quality ones you know...
 How much can you cranck out of these caps and fets? about 5-10 watts per channel? How high efficiencey need the speakers be to be driven by your bada? I know the fets can do 125 watts each, but how much class A can they do?

 Better replace the cheap headphone plugs while you can... the left one failed on me allready and the right one is also not that good either. I will use metal housed, neutrik headphone chassis plugs for that...but i need a new chassis to cram them in...

 also, i can get metal chassis for far less then aluminium, granted the alu case is much nicer, bit more then twice as much though!!!

 Alu versus metal, big problem in tube amps???!!! New chassis is quite expensive! BUT, it will give me much more space to do nice things...


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey fitz, i was thinking the same thing, relocating the fets to the side of the panel with a new chassis and using cooling fins, but i am quite sure that active cooling is still more effective and the way to go!_

 

After being on for a while the heatsinks get to about 10C above ambient, and the top of the amp gets to about 20C above ambient, so the passive cooling is working fairly well.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You got ridd of the 6sn7's? i think they are part of the nice sound of the bada._

 

6F8G is the exact same thing as a 6SN7GT, just a slightly earlier design.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see you used big polyester caps (PET) for output caps...there are higher quality ones you know..._

 

No I'm not. You ever seen a 10,000uF film cap that size? (I wonder how big a film cap would even have to be to have 10,000uF of capacitance...) If I used film caps there, there would be no bass or lower midrange coming out of the speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much can you cranck out of these caps and fets? about 5-10 watts per channel? How high efficiencey need the speakers be to be driven by your bada? I know the fets can do 125 watts each, but how much class A can they do?_

 

I haven't properly measured it yet, but somewhere around 15-20 watts rms per channel at full power, although it's only in the class a region for a much smaller portion of that (basically any headphone loads and lower volumes on speakers). The quiescent current could be bumped way up to have it running class a all the way up to full power, but you'd have a few hundred watts of heat like that...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better replace the cheap headphone plugs while you can... the left one failed on me allready and the right one is also not that good either. I will use metal housed, neutrik headphone chassis plugs for that...but i need a new chassis to cram them in..._

 

I'm not using either of the original headphone plugs.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After being on for a while the heatsinks get to about 10C above ambient, and the top of the amp gets to about 20C above ambient, so the passive cooling is working fairly well.




 6F8G is the exact same thing as a 6SN7GT, just a slightly earlier design.




 No I'm not. You ever seen a 10,000uF film cap that size? (I wonder how big a film cap would even have to be to have 10,000uF of capacitance...) If I used film caps there, there would be no bass or lower midrange coming out of the speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I haven't properly measured it yet, but somewhere around 15-20 watts rms per channel at full power, although it's only in the class a region for a much smaller portion of that (basically any headphone loads and lower volumes on speakers). The quiescent current could be bumped way up to have it running class a all the way up to full power, but you'd have a few hundred watts of heat like that...




 I'm not using either of the original headphone plugs._

 


 With active cooling, all components and the chassis are cold to the touch and the sound is more natural sounding, as in no edge to the sound/notes, like real life, it floates away in the same manner. the sound floates away less constrained...as without cooling, you'll hear the edges...if you know what i mean...LOL...

 I think that is more a russian or chinese designation for the 6sn7? Americans only used 6sn7, the russians and chinese have other designation for the 6sn7 tube or equivalents.

 LOL, i realized they were big, but not as huge as 10.000ufarads! No, i haven't seen any real high end quality in values like that. But you could use a few smaller ones to get the same value though.

 15-20 watts that is indeed class a-b..for class a you'd need much more and you'd have to dissapate alot of heat! You allready know how hot the bada normally gets and that is just 1 watt class a! The toshiba fets are rated for 125 watts each max...that will be class a-b?!

 Good thing, my cheap headphone chassis are allready shot! I am now going for the neutrik, seems to be the best you can get for that type of chassis. Over here, they're about 12-15 euro's a piece, problem is fitting them into the old bada chassis, hence the new chassis. You also see those in the higher end american designed headphone amps etc. You know with the black or red secure knob...


 Do you recon a metal case is worse(electromagnetic) then alu for a case? problem is, i saw a nice alu case but it is 2.5times the metal case........way over 200 euro's...the metal one is about 75-100 euro's. Stuart also recons the alu case will be better for audio...but the price...on the other hand it looks much nicer...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 All in all great job, fitz!

 P.s. imagine the new and very expensive vishay resistors in the crucial places...stuart allready reported the new resistors are off these planet, way above and beyond any normal resistor, but they are terribly expensive...but apperently worth the money.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With active cooling, all components and the chassis are cold to the touch and the sound is more natural sounding, as in no edge to the sound/notes, like real life, it floates away in the same manner. the sound floates away less constrained...as without cooling, you'll hear the edges...if you know what i mean...LOL..._

 

Ehh, I don't really know what you mean... the amp sounds a little better after it's warmed up a bit so I don't see why I would want to make it colder. That was one of the reasons I was initially tempted to set Iq higher so it would warm up faster.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that is more a russian or chinese designation for the 6sn7? Americans only used 6sn7, the russians and chinese have other designation for the 6sn7 tube or equivalents._

 

You're thinking of the 6N8P. 6F8G is the daddy of the 6SN7, and is electrically identical just has a bigger glass envelope and the grid cap. Basically all the major early types of 6SN7s you'll see equivalent 6F8G ones (it's one way to get something like a Tung-Sol roundplate real cheap, but now everybody knows about them so they're getting up in prices like 6SN7s).



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, i realized they were big, but not as huge as 10.000ufarads! No, i haven't seen any real high end quality in values like that. But you could use a few smaller ones to get the same value though._

 

There simply isn't enough room to stuff enough film caps inside the Bada to get anything even approaching acceptable for speakers. You'd basically have to have a separate big chassis to hold them just to get some bass out of the speakers, and even then you would likely still have too little capacitance and end up with an excessive amount of phase shift...



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_15-20 watts that is indeed class a-b..for class a you'd need much more and you'd have to dissapate alot of heat! You allready know how hot the bada normally gets and that is just 1 watt class a! The toshiba fets are rated for 125 watts each max...that will be class a-b?!_

 

The Bada gets so hot because the output stage and cooling were poorly designed, not because it takes that much heat to get 1 watt of class a output into headphones. Although in a funny twist of fate, one of the problems (too high PSU voltage) made it a lot easier to convert it into a speaker amp. The toshibas are rated to 120 watts of heat dissipation (and only at 25C, rated power goes down as temp rises), but that doesn't tell you anything about whether it would be used in a class a or class ab circuit, although an adequate cooling setup would get rather... _impractical_ at those power levels in a class a circuit.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you recon a metal case is worse(electromagnetic) then alu for a case? problem is, i saw a nice alu case but it is 2.5times the metal case........way over 200 euro's...the metal one is about 75-100 euro's. Stuart also recons the alu case will be better for audio...but the price...on the other hand it looks much nicer...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

An aluminum chassis _is_ a metal chassis... I'm not sure what the question is?



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All in all great job, fitz!_

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P.s. imagine the new and very expensive vishay resistors in the crucial places...stuart allready reported the new resistors are off these planet, way above and beyond any normal resistor, but they are terribly expensive...but apperently worth the money.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd rather exhaust my options for working on the circuit itself before (and even if) I spend any money on boutique components. I'm still tweaking the tube section, since I've been fairly unsatisfied with the distortion level of the stock layout (it should be noted I'm more of a SS guy and don't like the sound of a lot of tube amps I've heard). Right now I think I have the gain stage sounding good enough, and have the driver tube completely removed (jumpered grid to cathode on the socket, and removed the cathode resistors). A bit too much gain on the amp with the tubes at a more normal operating point like this... so I'm going to try rewiring each tube to have one half provide gain with the other half as a cathode follower driving the output stage, still leaving the front tube socket empty. Don't really like inverting the phase like that, but whatever... I can just invert the phase at my DAC to fix that. It's at least worth a try to see how it sounds, since I don't have enough experience with tube circuits to really be able to judge beforehand.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Fitz,
 as expected lots of questions:

 Have you taken a look at diyforums - Moskido. I have had quite a bit of contact with Beau (who created the Moskido) he married the John Broskie - Aikido with a mosfet output stage.

 He has built all kinds of amps - SET/PP/mosfet/classD - the lot and much prefers the Moskido. With his design there is no need to use lots of o/put caps.

 I will not ruin an excellant h/amp until I know that I can acheive a low distortion power amp from the Bada - if I cannot acheive this I will build a Moskido.

 You appear to have done away with the power resistors before the mosfets - is this so?

 If you like the sound of your power Bada now, just wait until you rip out those awful little red Wima snubber caps and I don't think you can call the excellant ERSE caps 'boutique' they are too darn cheap.

 Likewise you have left the 2W/ 15K resistors - I changed these as they were showing signs of distress.

 I will not waste time and money on a super/dooper stepped att. - the Alps Blue used with Vishay bulk metal foils is 'the business' yes I get a drop of 6dB but this can be accounted for using different value power resistors.

 As to your comments about 'warm up' - the mosfet and the power resistors will still warm up it's just that the heat produced is wicked away by the Ppast fans so that both the mosfets and the power resistors perform to optimum.

 As you will see from the Moskido thread, many are using multiple mosfets, this helps to keep the amp in classA.

 Please take a good look at the Moskido thread, I'm sure you will find answers to the distortion and o/put problems and if you email Beau/Bob Prangell he will be most helpful.

 Thanks for the info on the 6F8G tubes.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ehh, I don't really know what you mean... the amp sounds a little better after it's warmed up a bit so I don't see why I would want to make it colder. That was one of the reasons I was initially tempted to set Iq higher so it would warm up faster.





 You're thinking of the 6N8P. 6F8G is the daddy of the 6SN7, and is electrically identical just has a bigger glass envelope and the grid cap. Basically all the major early types of 6SN7s you'll see equivalent 6F8G ones (it's one way to get something like a Tung-Sol roundplate real cheap, but now everybody knows about them so they're getting up in prices like 6SN7s).





 There simply isn't enough room to stuff enough film caps inside the Bada to get anything even approaching acceptable for speakers. You'd basically have to have a separate big chassis to hold them just to get some bass out of the speakers, and even then you would likely still have too little capacitance and end up with an excessive amount of phase shift...





 The Bada gets so hot because the output stage and cooling were poorly designed, not because it takes that much heat to get 1 watt of class a output into headphones. Although in a funny twist of fate, one of the problems (too high PSU voltage) made it a lot easier to convert it into a speaker amp. The toshibas are rated to 120 watts of heat dissipation (and only at 25C, rated power goes down as temp rises), but that doesn't tell you anything about whether it would be used in a class a or class ab circuit, although an adequate cooling setup would get rather... impractical at those power levels in a class a circuit.




 An aluminum chassis is a metal chassis... I'm not sure what the question is?





 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 I'd rather exhaust my options for working on the circuit itself before (and even if) I spend any money on boutique components. I'm still tweaking the tube section, since I've been fairly unsatisfied with the distortion level of the stock layout (it should be noted I'm more of a SS guy and don't like the sound of a lot of tube amps I've heard). Right now I think I have the gain stage sounding good enough, and have the driver tube completely removed (jumpered grid to cathode on the socket, and removed the cathode resistors). A bit too much gain on the amp with the tubes at a more normal operating point like this... so I'm going to try rewiring each tube to have one half provide gain with the other half as a cathode follower driving the output stage, still leaving the front tube socket empty. Don't really like inverting the phase like that, but whatever... I can just invert the phase at my DAC to fix that. It's at least worth a try to see how it sounds, since I don't have enough experience with tube circuits to really be able to judge beforehand._

 


 Metal versus aluminium: alu is said not to be interfering with components and metal could. Alu is used in the more expensive amps...so, if you put components, near the surface of the metal, wich one insulates the best? I think alu is. But the that is twice as expensive...i don't want the chassis to interfere with the sound...



 The 2 15k anode or cathode resistors(can't remember)...from the tube leading to the ground...make a huge difference to the sound!

 I had 2 33k audio note tantalums in parallel in that position and cut one away: the sound changes dramatically...the 2 watts in there IS not nearly enough, 4 watts is much better and i am going to try 12 watt mils in that position!!!

 It is one of the important places that determin the sound of the amp.

 Thanks on the info on the tubes. I think i read about it before, but i tend to forget more then i tend to remember.LOL.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Fitz,
 as expected lots of questions:

 Have you taken a look at diyforums - Moskido. I have had quite a bit of contact with Beau (who created the Moskido) he married the John Broskie - Aikido with a mosfet output stage.

 He has built all kinds of amps - SET/PP/mosfet/classD - the lot and much prefers the Moskido. With his design there is no need to use lots of o/put caps.

 I will not ruin an excellant h/amp until I know that I can acheive a low distortion power amp from the Bada - if I cannot acheive this I will build a Moskido.

 You appear to have done away with the power resistors before the mosfets - is this so?

 If you like the sound of your power Bada now, just wait until you rip out those awful little red Wima snubber caps and I don't think you can call the excellant ERSE caps 'boutique' they are too darn cheap.

 Likewise you have left the 2W/ 15K resistors - I changed these as they were showing signs of distress.

 I will not waste time and money on a super/dooper stepped att. - the Alps Blue used with Vishay bulk metal foils is 'the business' yes I get a drop of 6dB but this can be accounted for using different value power resistors.

 As to your comments about 'warm up' - the mosfet and the power resistors will still warm up it's just that the heat produced is wicked away by the Ppast fans so that both the mosfets and the power resistors perform to optimum.

 As you will see from the Moskido thread, many are using multiple mosfets, this helps to keep the amp in classA.

 Please take a good look at the Moskido thread, I'm sure you will find answers to the distortion and o/put problems and if you email Beau/Bob Prangell he will be most helpful.

 Thanks for the info on the 6F8G tubes._

 

I agree with stuart on the cooling: the sound is audibly different in favour of active cooling, a rounder, fuller sound without edges.

 Also agree on the pot, if any, my high end pot is just as good as his shunted pot. I payd alot more and with a shunted pot you can tweak the sound much easier, just replace the resistors until you're satisfied!

 If roam was right and fitz is right then the bada is very fast into clipping/distortion. I tend to agree with them. This would be something to seek out and try to fix.

 Agree on the erse caps, they are priced very affordable...nothing much to lose only to gain if you use quality caps in those positions! Anything near the tubes, being resistor or cap has influence on the sound.

 During the week i will try to solder in the 12 watt mills into the 15k position and i let you know how much of a difference it may be! Audio note tants tend to emphazise the mids, and are not particularly good in top end and bass.
 Although with 2 in parallel, both were excellent as well.

 Concerning heat and distortion, at this point i would say go with the moskido. I would also seriously look into class d amping!


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Fitz,
 as expected lots of questions:

 Have you taken a look at diyforums - Moskido. I have had quite a bit of contact with Beau (who created the Moskido) he married the John Broskie - Aikido with a mosfet output stage.

 He has built all kinds of amps - SET/PP/mosfet/classD - the lot and much prefers the Moskido. With his design there is no need to use lots of o/put caps.

 I will not ruin an excellant h/amp until I know that I can acheive a low distortion power amp from the Bada - if I cannot acheive this I will build a Moskido._

 

I think I've looked at the circuit for the Moskido at some point during this... 6SN7s and something else (6SL7?) in push-pull. Not really the kind of changes I want to make to the Bada.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You appear to have done away with the power resistors before the mosfets - is this so?_

 

Yes... they're not used in the push-pull output stage... basically a 2SJ200 takes the place of those resistors. There are 2W 0.1 ohm resistors between the mosfets, gives a convenient place to measure quiescent current from.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you like the sound of your power Bada now, just wait until you rip out those awful little red Wima snubber caps and I don't think you can call the excellant ERSE caps 'boutique' they are too darn cheap._

 

On the filaments?! I can't see much gain to be had upgrading those caps, at least not relative to everything else.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Likewise you have left the 2W/ 15K resistors - I changed these as they were showing signs of distress._

 

They were replaced by the previous owner with 3W resistors, but they're not in there anymore, as (for now) I've removed the middle tube and those resistors.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As to your comments about 'warm up' - the mosfet and the power resistors will still warm up it's just that the heat produced is wicked away by the Ppast fans so that both the mosfets and the power resistors perform to optimum._

 

Junction temperature will still be lower if the heat is dissipated more quickly. I like to run mosfets *hot* anyways, so I'm actually having to use a lower bias than I normally would to keep the chassis from getting hot.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Black Stuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please take a good look at the Moskido thread, I'm sure you will find answers to the distortion and o/put problems and if you email Beau/Bob Prangell he will be most helpful._

 

What output problems? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The new mosfet output stage has more than sufficiently low distortion and heat, I'm only dealing with the tube gain stage at this point. With how I have it now (cathode follower removed, input to mosfets taken from the cascade), it sounds very good through my speakers, but I have a feeling some of that may be due to the higher output impedance of the cascade interacting with the mosfets' (fairly high) input capacitance, making the sound a lot warmer... I'll need to check the frequency response of the amp again...


----------



## Fitz

Raised the mosfet idle current up a bit, confirmed that I was getting a treble roll-off with the temporary setup for the tubes, and reworked them as I mentioned before (each tube 1/2 gain, 1/2 mosfet driver). I'm thinking this sounds good enough to leave it alone for a while... at least until after the meet on Saturday.


----------



## Fitz

Ok I'm a dirty liar; I played with the circuit some more tonight. Found there was still a small amount of treble roll-off in the audible range, probably because the output impedance of the tubes was still a little too high, so I removed the gate resistors on the mosfets and that brought it back up. I also finally gave in to temptation and added a little bit of global negative feedback to the amp as well (made simple by it being an inverting amp now). Right now I'm much happier with how it's sounding than I was earlier, although I can't test it with speakers in the middle of the night.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I've looked at the circuit for the Moskido at some point during this... 6SN7s and something else (6SL7?) in push-pull. Not really the kind of changes I want to make to the Bada.





 Yes... they're not used in the push-pull output stage... basically a 2SJ200 takes the place of those resistors. There are 2W 0.1 ohm resistors between the mosfets, gives a convenient place to measure quiescent current from.





 On the filaments?! I can't see much gain to be had upgrading those caps, at least not relative to everything else.





 They were replaced by the previous owner with 3W resistors, but they're not in there anymore, as (for now) I've removed the middle tube and those resistors.





 Junction temperature will still be lower if the heat is dissipated more quickly. I like to run mosfets *hot* anyways, so I'm actually having to use a lower bias than I normally would to keep the chassis from getting hot.





 What output problems? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The new mosfet output stage has more than sufficiently low distortion and heat, I'm only dealing with the tube gain stage at this point. With how I have it now (cathode follower removed, input to mosfets taken from the cascade), it sounds very good through my speakers, but I have a feeling some of that may be due to the higher output impedance of the cascade interacting with the mosfets' (fairly high) input capacitance, making the sound a lot warmer... I'll need to check the frequency response of the amp again..._

 

LOL, you don't have to see or think, you have to listen! You betcha those little red wima's near the tubes do alot for the sound. get other high quality caps in there and you'll hear!

 That's why we use active cooling, you like it hot on the fets, we like to cool em down so they perform better.

 Sounds you're still not done.


----------



## Fitz

Just saying to listen doesn't make it any more worthwhile to me if I'm not given a rationale for why it would improve the sound. The best amp designer in the world could tell me if I stuck some caps up my nose it'd make the amp more musical, but that doesn't mean I'm going to try without a reason. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I run the mosfets hot because they just sound better that way in this amp, not because I "think" they will sound better. When I have the quiescent current set low or the amp is just powered on with a cold chassis, the sound is not as good as when the quiescent current is higher and the amp has been on for a while. This isn't due to the tubes warming up either, because if I have the amp warmed up and turn it off to change tubes, it sounds good almost right away with the new tubes (amp is only off 2-3 minutes so the output stage stays warm). Also, don't forget that your amp isn't the same as this amp; there are fundamental differences in the circuit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've spent some time this evening listening to the latest changes to the amp through speakers, and I do think I'm done or at least very close to it. Anyways... I've got two days to finish building a different amp that I haven't even completely finalized the design on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, so this one is going on hold now and I'll probably end up just leaving it alone once it's off the workbench and properly integrated into my system.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saying to listen doesn't make it any more worthwhile to me if I'm not given a rationale for why it would improve the sound. The best amp designer in the world could tell me if I stuck some caps up my nose it'd make the amp more musical, but that doesn't mean I'm going to try without a reason. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I run the mosfets hot because they just sound better that way in this amp, not because I "think" they will sound better. When I have the quiescent current set low or the amp is just powered on with a cold chassis, the sound is not as good as when the quiescent current is higher and the amp has been on for a while. This isn't due to the tubes warming up either, because if I have the amp warmed up and turn it off to change tubes, it sounds good almost right away with the new tubes (amp is only off 2-3 minutes so the output stage stays warm). Also, don't forget that your amp isn't the same as this amp; there are fundamental differences in the circuit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've spent some time this evening listening to the latest changes to the amp through speakers, and I do think I'm done or at least very close to it. Anyways... I've got two days to finish building a different amp that I haven't even completely finalized the design on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, so this one is going on hold now and I'll probably end up just leaving it alone once it's off the workbench and properly integrated into my system._

 

Fitz, you can't reason sound or taste!

 That IS the problem. A designer thinks rationele...a listener thinks with his ears and adjusts the sound to his taste! By swapping components. And thus far, no high end component has let me down, they were all a big improvement. And yes, you can reason why they do make a difference, but i rather tend to listen to the sound...or music...

 This weekend i will solder in the mills 2 x 12 watts 15k resistors...I'll keep you guys posted. See how they keep up against the 2 parallel audio note tants!


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Fitz,
 I am not interested in classAB o/put but I am interested in a 40V regulated supply - could you please give us a step by step description and of course the components used - the photos are great but not enough for those with insufficient knowledge.

 Also could you tell me what size grid caps are needed for the 6F8G tubes and to where do I solder the cap grid wire.

 Where is the cheapest place to buy adaptors I only see $25 a pop prices.

 If I like the 6F8G tubes - how hard would it be to replace the existing 6SN7 sockets with Loctals. I looked for modern quality Loctals and could only see Japanese ones at Y6,000 a pop. I do know that the old ceramic ones are not up to much.

 I'm not surprised that those who have used both 6SN7s prefer the 6F8G - bigger bottle bigger sound. That's why there are those who are prepared to build 1Kw power amps using transmitter tubes, which are enormous but one wrong touch in the wrong place in one of these 'boat anchors' and you are dead smoking meat for sure.


----------



## tourmaline

Mills are soldered in and in place off the audio note tantalums. The tants are really nice, but the Mills are defenately a notch better. The sound is in between one or 2 tants parallel, thus natural sound with more clarity! Something i hoped for but i got more...the notes and instruments and voices also sound better, have more quality to them.

 The Mills are in direct contact with the tubes, so have a huge infuence on sound...

 Glad i swapped the tants. Now for the vishay's...

 Still not so sure about the 6f8g tubes though...


----------



## Fitz

There's not really much to tell on the regulated supply... it's just an LM317 stuck in between the unregulated supply and the amp itself. I used the new heatsinks I put on the side as a way to keep it cooled. I have to open the Bada back up to remove something I was experimenting with, I guess I can take additional pictures and write up some steps then...

 The 6F8Gs use the smaller sized grid cap, but why would you want to replace the sockets with loctals if you like the 6F8G (which is octal)? Unless you're wanting to use 7N7s in the amp, but in that case I'd still just use some appropriate adapters and leave the octal sockets in.


----------



## pataburd

Hey, Gang!
 Just thought I'd spice this thread up with an overhead view of the underbelly of the Fitz-Max Bada PH-12 ULTRA! : )

Fitz-Max Bada PH-12 ULTRA (1) picture by pataburd - Photobucket.

 : )


----------



## DVasdekis

Fitz,

 From a cost-benefit perspective, what upgrades would you recommend for the PH-12 that cost less than around $300 all up? I'm not interested in your speaker amp conversion, only the headphone portion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also where did you learn your electronics knowledge? It's formidable!

 Cheers


----------



## cyberan

For all the ph-12 owners, I wish to become an owner and modify my bada, yet I have a very limited physical space.
 Can anyone measure the exact size of the bada and let me know, i wish to know if it fits my space.

 Height (including tubes), and width.

 Thanks in advance


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For all the ph-12 owners, I wish to become an owner and modify my bada, yet I have a very limited physical space.
 Can anyone measure the exact size of the bada and let me know, i wish to know if it fits my space.

 Height (including tubes), and width.

 Thanks in advance_

 

The Bada runs uncommonly hot, so make sure you plan for adequate ventilation space around the unit. Many of us PH-12 owners use active cooling with an outboard fan, since the inboard fan is both noisy and, for the most part, ineffective. I'll try to get you measurements, directly from my Bada, by day's end. Accounting for transformer height will take care of tube height, too. : )


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ . . . 

 Can anyone measure the exact size of the bada and let me know, i wish to know if it fits my space.

 Height (including tubes), and width.

 Thanks in advance_

 

L x W x H, according to the dimensions printed on the Bada PH-12 box are: 430mm x 245mm x 215mm, or about 16.9in x 9.7in x 8.5in (these dimensions might be a little conservative--a good thing). Remember to make ample allowances for air to circulate around the Bada for proper cooling.


----------



## cyberan

Thanks a lot for your reply, it is a bit higher than my space, I guess I can not use it in my current space. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (too high for my shelve space).


----------



## pataburd

Update:
 The VH TFTF capacitors are at about 300 hours now, and the Fitz-Maxxed PH-12 ULTRA is finally coming into its own. Following the evolving sound signature has been like a roller coaster ride, with the amp sounding alternately quite good, then insufferably poor; at first sounding muffled, then sounding etched, then muffled again, etc. 

 Last night, with 1x Mullard ECC33 and 2x Russian 1578, the sound has gotten very transparent and detailed, but at the same time more dynamic. Donna Summers' disco standard, "I Feel Love" was mesmerizing in its pulsy, bass ungulating manner. This morning, with 1x JAN CBS 5692 and 2x Raytheon VT-231, Santana (the very bassy Legacy re-master) sounds just right over the UPOCC re-cabled K501! : ) Another 100 hours or so and, God willing, I want to a/b some headphones. 

 For the most part, I've been driving the (stock) DT880/2003 and really like the synergy with the Bada. Also, the 3-level crossfeed that Fitz so artfully installed is usually "on", set on the "low" (#1) level, and is very enjoyable. Thanks again, Fitz! : )


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow nice work Fitz.....Pata those Teflon caps do all kinds of funky things during burn in (as do the large electrolytic caps). I found the Russian T-3 Teflons took 1K hours to start settling down give or take 100 hours or so. The T-3's sound very similar to the CVH caps (not surprisingly).

 I'm sure it will sound heavenly once all the new stuff is settled down...........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What's next ? A new chassis point to point version ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not that you need to do that.

 Peete.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 What's next ? A new chassis point to point version ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not that you need to do that.

 Peete._

 

Peete,
 Next? After 17 weeks of unemployment, I need to find a job! Point-to-point would be nice, though. (I can almost hear Fitz groaning all the way from GA!) : ) 

 But just put together a budget, non-headphone system for my wife (Denon 1940CI player, AMC XIAB integrated, Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 monitors, Virtue Audio Nirvana ICs and speaker cable, Iego L70530 + 8055 PCs--currently looking for a pair of stands) and so I'll be engaged in "outboard" speaker listening, too. Everything, with the exception of the cables, was bought used, of course. 

 The AMC is supposed to have a good headphone output as well. : )

 I'm thinking about selling some stuff and springing for DakiOm's new F273 feedback stabilizer when I rejoin the ranks of the "jobbed ones". If I don't have work by year's end, God willing, I'll go to school full time for Theological studies. : )
 PAB


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DVasdekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fitz,

 From a cost-benefit perspective, what upgrades would you recommend for the PH-12 that cost less than around $300 all up? I'm not interested in your speaker amp conversion, only the headphone portion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also where did you learn your electronics knowledge? It's formidable!

 Cheers_

 

If you backtrack these threads, Black Stuart and Tourmaline have commented exhaustively about the "basic" mods to the PH-12. I think Tour has even prioritized/rank-ordered the upgrades (e.g. see Tour's 06/04/2008 post on page 19, with the black and blue circled photograph).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Good luck with the job hunt Pata ! I'll send some good vibes/luck your way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That budget system for the wife is already better than any of my neighbors stuff (all of them combined) and by a fair margin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How many hours do you have on your Ultra ?

 Peete.


----------



## pataburd

Peete,
 Thank you for your kind wishes. : )
 It's difficult to say for sure how many hours I have on the Ultra, since the mods came in two phases (the VH caps in the first phase and the electrolytics and crossfeed on the second), but I'd say between 300+ and 400- hours.
 Will keep you posted.

 Deo gratias!
 Patrick


----------



## Black Stuart

I just had to post the latest mod which is good not only for the Bada but any amp.

 I have finished with my i/cs - I now have the definitive version, with which I was very, very pleased but I then remembered that for real continuity of the signal I should change out the signal wiring in the Bada.

 I had changed the s/wiring about a year earlier when I started using multiple conductors and I had replicated what I was using for i/cs 4 x 26AWG silver/plated OFHC copper solid core, wrapped in Kapton.



 It was a tricky piece of work because of the low loss sat. cable which I use for dialectric and soldering onto the PCB plate that Bada use on top of the Alps pot.

 Anyway it was finally done - checked that all was OK, plugged everything in and then switched on and as always stayed to check that all was OK and then left the whole thing on for about 1/2 hour.

 I nearly always use Natalie Merchant - Ophelia or Retrospective to check out a mod.

 What a profound improvement - incredible dynamics and bass was something else, voices 3D. 

 The only difference between the i/cs and the internal signal wiring was bare wire against wrapped wire - what a difference.

 I can now say with certainty - forget all about trying different i/cs until you have changed the internal amp signal wiring - you will never hear how good or bad an i/c cable is until you upgrade this internal wiring.

 By using double sheilded dialectric you are sheilding the delicate incoming audio signal from all noise and interference.

 So good is the sound from the s/plated copper wire, that it is only today I am thinking about changing the 4 conductors and using Mundorf silver/gold wire or maybe the UP-OCC silver wire.

 This time I will do it the right way - first change the amp wiring and then make up a pair of i/cs using the silver wire (I don't have enough of the Mundorf s/gold wire to make i/cs as well.

 If you prefer copper - then buy the best and use that - nobody will be dissapointed at the results.

 This mod will work for any amp/h/amp that has internal signal wiring.

 I can make up an internal signal wiring set for anyone with a Bada PH12 using s/plated OFHC copper and the LL sat. cable - the only tricky bit is working out the soldering sequence on the Alps Blue PCB - that's it.


----------



## pataburd

Fitz put UP-OCC signal wire in my Bada. Ditto. A noteworthy improvement! : )


----------



## Pricklely Peete

*Very cool Black Stuart* and I couldn't agree more about the internal wiring being very very important (among other mods). I've been using that Mundorf silver/gold stuff (24 awg and 18awg) in all of my reference level gear in a massive mod that is still ongoing (rewired the transport with Illumati COAX for the 75 ohm outputs, REF 1 DAC analog/ACSS outs use Mundorf, Illumati COAX once again on the digital inputs, and Mundorf for the ACSS link between the DAC and Amp,Phoenix is completely rewired using 24 and 18 awg silver gold). The improvement was/is pretty impressive.

 Here is a link to the DIY ACSS (CAST) cables I made using the silver/gold 24 awg wire (fully shielded with silver plated copper mesh, fully balanced geometry with 22 awg Legenberg copper gnd conductor) 





 The best aspect of the Mundorf alloy is the gold content stabilizes the silver so no corrosion or oxidation can occur (in theory) with the exposed bits of wire that in turn are soldered. The Teflon sheathing is pretty thick. I love the Mundorf wire's sound signature. It does not sound like typical solid silver to these ears but rather a perfect blend of silver and copper (with none of the SPC drawbacks).

*Pata* I hope 2010 finds you happy and employed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I know you had to sell your Bada amp, sorry to hear of that BTW.

 Peete.


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## mdg900

Does anyone in Europe (preferably UK) offer a service for modding or repairing the PH-12?

 I have a blown MOSFET, but I'm tempted to get it upgraded too if that's an option. Any recommendations on upgrades to the PH-12? 

 This is my setup:
 Trends UD10 > Keces DA-131> Bada PH-12 > HD650


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## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mdg900* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone in Europe (preferably UK) offer a service for modding or repairing the PH-12?

 I have a blown MOSFET, but I'm tempted to get it upgraded too if that's an option. Any recommendations on upgrades to the PH-12? 

 This is my setup:
 Trends UD10 > Keces DA-151> Bada PH-12 > HD650_

 

I can supply a mosfet for $11 USD shipped - pay by paypal to my email (sent to you)

 instructions for replacement are described earlier in this thread

 we have some Bada owners in Europe that are experts in doing this repair - hopefully someone will contact you


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## pataburd

Hi, Gang! 

 Took my "Fitz-Maxxed" PH-12 out of 9 months' storage last week (and mounted the custom heat sinks that Fitz fitted for it) to mark the auspicious arrival of the DT880/600 ohm. Now I am glad the amp did not sell--boy am I grateful it didn't sell! 

 The Bada and the Beyers match very well, providing a smooth, clean, detailed, dynamic and expansive listening experience. Finally, too, I think the Ven Haus TFTF caps have finally settled down. Right now, the Bada is tubed with an RCA 6SN7GT/tall bottle/black plate and two Sylvania 6SN7GTB/short bottle/green labels. This combination has always proven to be rewarding. : ) 

 Lastly, Fitz rewired my Bada with solid core Neotech 18AWG UP-OCC copper and I couldn't be happier.


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## pataburd

The heat sinks that Fitz custom fit for the Bada work very well.  The new resistors that Fitz mounted from the underside of the circuit board prohibited remounting the existing onboard cooling fan (which was always an embarrassing aspect of the PH-12's design).  
   
  I have had the amp running for 2-3 hours and the heat dissipation is adequate enough with the heat sinks that I do not have to employ outboard cooling (with a 6-inch, Lasco desktop fan).  
   
  I like the idea of letting the components warm up during operation, but without getting dangerously hot, which was a constant hazard with the stock design.
   
  The Bada is tubed with an RCA 5692 and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB, and drives the Beyer DT880/600 ohm headphones extremely well.
   
  Thanks again, Fitz!  : )


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## pataburd

Just re-tubed with 1x Sylvania "Bad Boy" and 2x GE 6SN7GTB, and the Bada sounds shockingly good with the K501.  Those GEs sound excellent back there!  : )


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## Pricklely Peete

Wow Pata, I'm glad to hear you still have your Bada PH-12 MaXX (seems like providence that you were able to keep the amp) ...welcome back BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Peete.


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## kool bubba ice

I can't believe that used to be my amp.. You really improved on it pata.


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## beachgeek

drarthurwells so you still own a Bada, seems you were ahead of your time with the hybrid idea.  I am looking for an amp, but now there are a lot of hybrid amps and trying to find a good one for $400 or less if possible.  I saw the BADA DC amp, has anyone tried it out? All suggestions are welcome.


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## SP Wild

Hmmmm....The Musical Fidelity XCan series were all hybrids and very popular in its day, the original Xcans debuted many, many moons ago.  Also very popular with modders - many moons ago.


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## beachgeek

Hi, sounds like you've seen a few amps in your time.  Do you have any suggestions for today?  I need something for ms1i and Denon 2000.  Thanks


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## SP Wild

If you're after a hybrid - I can't speak for  the bada.  But I do own the D7000 - my criticism is that the bass sometimes can be bloated on some recordings and the treble is somewhat very peaky - only recently I have pulled the XcanV3 out of storage, in a desperate attempt to bring some valve magic to the D7000s as I couldn't get any of my full tube amps to drive them without them sounding bloated at the bass.
   
  The D7000s (and by extension D2000) matched perfectly with the Xcans for those specific requirements - they were able to drive low resistance cans better than they could drive a 300ohm HD650 (they were sold as HD650 amps)...The roll of in bass and treble with this amp made me dislike them for HD650 - but somehow they were perfect to tames bass bloat and bright treble.  They are cheap on the used market.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> If you're after a hybrid - I can't speak for  the bada.  But I do own the D7000 - my criticism is that the bass sometimes can be bloated on some recordings and the treble is somewhat very peaky - only recently I have pulled the XcanV3 out of storage, in a desperate attempt to bring some valve magic to the D7000s as I couldn't get any of my full tube amps to drive them without them sounding bloated at the bass.
> 
> The D7000s (and by extension D2000) matched perfectly with the Xcans for those specific requirements - they were able to drive low resistance cans better than they could drive a 300ohm HD650 (they were sold as HD650 amps)...The roll of in bass and treble with this amp made me dislike them for HD650 - but somehow they were perfect to tames bass bloat and bright treble.  They are cheap on the used market.


 

 My CSP2 tamed the bass on the Denon D7000. It sounds very good when I swapped tubes and the amp played them without issue. They do prefer ss amps IMO and you get the bass slam the D7000 is know for.


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## Black Stuart

Hi to all,
  I had completely forgotten about this gargantuan thread, being long in the tooth like Art, I thought I'd better take a look at his posting before pming him and no he has'nt popped his clogs.
   
  Note to self 'never say you are finished with anything'. However, unless I can find a way to prevent oxidisation of UP-OCC solid core copper wire, I  have reached an end game with my i/cs and am now embarking on my first h/phone cable which will be a replica of the i/cs, this should be good for 600s & 650s.
   
  How is this relevant to the Bada well, I no longer use any sheilding on my i/cs, which are 4 conductors inside oversized FEP tubing. I have yet to fit this because I only ordered enough FEP tubing for evaluation and am awaiting a spool of the FEP to arrive. Because I have not removed the PCB I have never had a chance to change the last of the original signal wiring from Mosfets to jack sockets, this should be interesting.
   
  Yes I still have my Bada and it's with me until I pop my clogs. I still hav'nt removed the PCB to properly fit all my mods as I was uncertain if I wanted to buy replacement regs and tracking down replacements for the 2 x 56uF/400V reservoir caps. I shall be ordering the Paul Haynes regs as they beat everything that Leo (Sabre DAC 9018) put against them and managed to find some Nichicon Audio caps, these and some Mills power resistors. I shall be changing the rather crappy jack sockets and I'm good to finally fit everything properly in the Bada, remember I have never had a mosfet blow (famous last words) but I do have spares should this happen.
   
  I do have my definitive valve line-up - Tung Sol RP 6f8g driver / Russian mil. spec 1578 - it is everything I could wish for but it is true to say that when you have a highly detailed a neutral amp, the differences between good sounding valves does become much less.
   
  There will be a nice surprise for Art and Pataburd coming their way soon - thanks for all your help guys.


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## drarthurwells

Found my stash of Toshiba SK1529 mosfets for the Bada 12. They were stored away from my move several years ago. I have not had a mosfet failure in at least 5 years - I simply don't turn it on until it has been off for a full day. $17 for a pair of them - add $2 for outside the USA. PM me.


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## Black Stuart

Hi Art,
  the Toshiba mosfets are great and as capable as tubes in portraying delicate top notes and in most cases way better bass and like you I hav'nt blown a single mosfet since buying the PH12 in 2007 but being a cautious Scot there is no way I'm going to sell my 2 spare sets of mosfets - better than money in the bank.
   
  Here's the news - the PH32, the power version is quite simply a much better designed amp in every way and I would urge anyone that has'nt experienced a hybrid power amp to buy one of these. They can now be obtained from at least 4 different sources. The pre-amp section is almost the same but with an extra 0.10uF bypass cap before the 1uF coupling cap and the resistor values are much better set as well. There is also an inductor just before the mosfets to take care of any high frequency oscillation/speaker protection and 4 of the PSU caps have been bypassed.
   
  Unlike the PH12 only a few component changes will give you an amp with a truly superb sound, take out the awful 0.10uF Wima MKP10 and the equally awful 1uF Solen coupling cap and replace with the excellant and ludicrously cheap Russian K73-16 mylar caps and you will not believe the performance of this amp. both of these amps benefit greatly by shunting the pot with  Z foil or Caddock resistors.
   
  If only idiots had'nt been obsessed with tube rolling every 5 minutes I'm sure the Bada amps would have sold in great numbers.


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## drarthurwells

Never heard the PH32. Glad to hear your views on it. My unmodified PH12s sound great in my system. I really love my Eastsound E5 Platinum Reference CDP. I don't think any CDP made can be better. I sold my spare one to someone with much ultra high end experience and he raved about it. Would love to have one of my PH12s modified to your specs - too busy to do it myself.


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## Black Stuart

Art,
  nice to hear from you - re. the PH12, there is one change that is easy to do without the hassle of removing the PCB and will hugely uprate the sound.The coupling cap is 1uF/250V - just cut away the cap leaving the legs and solder your replacement cap to these legs. I have made many changes to the PH12 using this method.
   
  I am happy to send you a couple of these amazing Russian K73-16 caps Art - make this change and you will hear just how grey and lifeless Solen caps are, same goes for Wima MKP 10. When I replaced the 0.10uF cap with a K73-16 it opened up my whole system, the improvement was even more pronounced than when I first used Z foils for shunting the pot.
   
  There simply is no comparison between an Alps Blue and one shunted or quazi-shunted wqith Z foils. The quazi shunt could'nt be simpler - just cut the wires about 1/2 inch above the PCB for Left & Right signal input to the PCB from the Alps pot, strip the dialectric and solder in series a Z foil or Caddock, value - 40-47K, nothing could be simpler and the beauty of this mod is that if for some weird reason you don't like the change in sound (very, very unlikely) you can just desolder the resistor and resolder the original signal wiring.
   
  These two mods will stun you - like having a totally superior h/amp.


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## drarthurwells

Black Stuart, your mod looks easy - even I could do it - and very worthwhile.


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## drarthurwells

New tube set up - may be especially good for planar headphones:
  
  
 Two Shugang 6SN7 tubes in the rear
  
 One Ming Da 6SN7 globe shaped tube up front.
  
  
 The Chinese Shugang is an excellent tube that is very accurate with excellent detail but does have a lean tone body and cn be harsh in the treble range with loud program material.
  
 The Ming Da adds some tone body and richer timbre to complement the Shugangs quite nicely.
  
 7/20/16 see added note below:
  
  

  
 After a few days with the Ming Da tube  above, changed it out to a Sylvania W GT Jan. 6SN7 military tube.
  
 With the W in front and keeping the two Shugangs in back I got slightly more richness in the tone body and slightly better midrange clarity, for the most realistic and musically pleasing sound I have ever heard on headphones.
  
 Since the above I have tried new tube combos such as:
  
 Still with two Shugangs in the rear and a different tube in the front where the front tube is:
  
 Sylvania 6SN7 WGT - improves the Raptor or solid state sound buy adding some richness to the tone body but not timbrel coloration associated to all-tube amps, and more emotional drama projectsd than the Raptor or a solid sate amp
  
 CBS GT or CBS Hytron GT - much too much tube coloration
  
 RCA GT with the side getter - more tone body, more emotional drama, a tad too much tube coloration
  
 Tung-Sol GTB - improves the tone adding even some richness to the tone body (but with natural timbre and not abnormal tube coloration), very nice more emotional impact and drama but also with good detail - my preferable tube set up at the moment
  
  
 The Audeze LCD-3 greatly increased the resolution of my system so now I clearly hear big differences between tube set ups cable changes, etc. This tells me not only do I have a high resolution CD player but also that the Bada PH12 is a great amp (with the right tubes but can be a terrible amp with the wrong tubes).
  
 Unless you have a top quality planar headphone like the LCD-3 or LCD-4, and a top quality source and cables and amp, you can not hear differences in comparing components that are there non-the-less right before your ears.


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## drarthurwells

State of the art performance achieved. The addition of the Audeze LCD 3 headphones in replacing the Senn. HD600 has tremendously elevated my system in terms of resolution, realism, and naturalism. I know my CD player is state of the art as is the Audeze LCD3 but believe the Bada PH12 ($500 USD new shipped anywhere) is also SOTA since it keeps right up with the CD player and LCD3. Evidence for this is the incredible high resolution of the system with the Bada PH12 - clear sonic differences are heard with different tubes and different CDs in a way I have never experienced. With a well recorded CD and the best of tube combos (usually with not the more expensive tubes used) the naturalness and realism is awesome. 
  
 Tube summary with Bada PH12
  
 all using 6n8p (6SN7 equivalent) Chinese Shuguang tubes in the rear and using these tunes alone in the front:
  
 Solid state sound (detailed, good 3D images with instrument separation, little smearing of tones, but lean tone body)
 Shuguang up front so all three are Shuguangs
  
 GE GTB gray plates solid state sound but some slight smearing of tones, detailed and bright
  
  
 Rich tube sound (seductive rich tone body but some image and tone blurring in a liquid sound which means reduced instrument separation in space)
  
 order is in increasing richness and coloration where tubes listed first are less colored and more realistic but less rich (some describe as musical):
  
 Sylvania 6SN7 GTW
 Sylvania W also a 6SN7 but different from above
 RCA 6SN7 GT side getter and clear upper body
 Ken Rad 6SN7 GT VT231 - too much coloration at times but seductive richness
 CBS 6SN7 GT - too much coloration
 Electro Harmonix 6SN7 - too much coloration
  
  
  
 Good combo of solid state with some tube tone body richness
  
 TungSol 6SN7 "mouse ears" (may be the best but you may prefer one of these from below)
 CBS 6SN7 GTB black (T or triangular) plates, side getter, short body
 TungSol 6SN7 GTB
 Sylvania 6SN7 GT bottom flashing and clear top, black T plates, rectangular mica with oval ends
 Raytheon 6SN7 GT


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