# Chris Sommovigo's Digital cable evolution....



## Vangelis

Ok, this topic is big fun for me. I have a Digital Precision I2 X-60. As history goes, the first hot value in digital 75ohm spdif cables came from Chris Sommovigo in the form of the Illuminati D-60 then later his company Stereovox offered the HDVX2 as an upgrade. Recently the XV2 is called the new giant killer on the Stereovox web site. So anyone out there compared these four or more importantly the I2 X-60 vs the new XV2? Anyone know if there is a direction/flow to way the cable should to be oriented, perhaps the signal following the logo. Years back when I purchased my Digital Precision I2 X-60 I was told the best sounding length was the 1.5 meter. Many audiophiles have have the opinion that 75ohm spdif digital cables do not sound their best when they are too short or too long. Anyone have any experience with these topics? It would be appreciated.


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## fishski13

i have the XV2 but have not compared it other Stereovox. i liked the improvement in transient information, speed and detail compared to the Benchmark IC.

 AFAIK, no, it's not directional.

 PACE


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## OverlordXenu

A digital cable is a digital cable. I recall reading Benchmark saying they tested their DAC using a wire hanger from their transport to their DAC, and you know what? It worked perfectly.

 Bits are bits. A cable isn't going to change that.

 Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way (ie. using a $100 digital cable will make your system sound better than using a $5 one) should have all of their claims questioned.


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## yage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A digital cable is a digital cable. I recall reading Benchmark saying they tested their DAC using a wire hanger from their transport to their DAC, and you know what? It worked perfectly._

 

Really. Where did you read that?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way (ie. using a $100 digital cable will make your system sound better than using a $5 one) should have all of their claims questioned._

 

I like the sound of my $10 digital cable better than my $2000 one. The cheaper cable is edgy and I like that flavor more.


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really. Where did you read that?_

 

Some thread here. Note, I said I heard it, not that I read it on their site or read it from a reputable source. I was honest.


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## Duggeh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A digital cable is a digital cable. I recall reading Benchmark saying they tested their DAC using a wire hanger from their transport to their DAC, and you know what? It worked perfectly.

 Bits are bits. A cable isn't going to change that.

 Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way (ie. using a $100 digital cable will make your system sound better than using a $5 one) should have all of their claims questioned._

 

Simply not so.

 You can send an SPDIF signal through salt water if you like. That doesnt mean that all the bits will get there properly. Even if you do hear music.

 Ferrari went round the silverstone track with a Citroen 2CV, and you know what? It worked perfectly. Doesn't mean that the F1 car wouldn't be a better choice.

 Your claims are more questionable than those of the person who has actually done the comparison. And not just because you are vaugely recalling something that you might have read somewhere.


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## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A digital cable is a digital cable. I recall reading Benchmark saying they tested their DAC using a wire hanger from their transport to their DAC, and you know what? It worked perfectly.

 Bits are bits. A cable isn't going to change that.

 Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way (ie. using a $100 digital cable will make your system sound better than using a $5 one) should have all of their claims questioned._

 

Zzzzzz...


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## jude

This is another example of why we're starting an Objectivists' Forum (which is what it'll tentatively be titled). Essentially, if you're going to tell me it's placebo (be it about cables, CD players, DACs, etc.), it will have to be posted in (or moved to) that forum after it opens up (which, admittedly, I'll probably not visit too often, except when posts are reported).

 After seeing this thread--and a lot like it over the last several months--this may move to the top of my Head-Fi to-do list for today.


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## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is another example of why we're starting an Objectivists' Forum (which is what it'll tentatively be titled). Essentially, if you're going to tell me it's placebo (be it about cables, CD players, DACs, etc.), it will have to be posted in (or moved to) that forum after it opens up (which, admittedly, I'll probably not visit too often, except when posts are reported).

 After seeing this thread--and a lot like it over the last several months--this may move to the top of my Head-Fi to-do list for today._

 

thank you!! god speed.

 it's tiring to see interesting/informative thread topics being mired in the same dull circular arguments. 

 PACE


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is another example of why we're starting an Objectivists' Forum (which is what it'll tentatively be titled). Essentially, if you're going to tell me it's placebo (be it about cables, CD players, DACs, etc.), it will have to be posted in (or moved to) that forum after it opens up (which, admittedly, I'll probably not visit too often, except when posts are reported).

 After seeing this thread--and a lot like it over the last several months--this may move to the top of my Head-Fi to-do list for today._

 

I thank you for this wonderful site, but I personally think this is a terrible idea...Threads need to be balanced. Allowing only one view in a thread is just censoring (which I realize you can do, as this is a private site), and I see it as counter-productive to the end goal of why we all post on this forum...which is to share our views, and try to help each other obtain high-fidelity, no?


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## gritzcolin

I say if people wanna buy fancy cables let them. I will go with my sources like Leo Laporte and the HT guys who say buy cheap digital cables.


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## stevenkelby

Good man Jude, these same 4 children are my only beef with head-fi.

 Leaving their posts intact, available to the public, in a dedicated forum, fulfills their right to make an ass of themselves and gives them the privilege of being heard.

 The rest of us will hopefully be free to have mature, open minded discussions.


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## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stevenkelby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good man Jude, these same 4 children are my only beef with head-fi.

 Leaving their posts intact, available to the public, in a dedicated forum, fulfills their right to make an ass of themselves and gives them the privilege of being heard.

 The rest of us will hopefully be free to have mature, open minded discussions._

 

Why are people children if they disagree with yours or anyones opinion? For the most part with exception of a few of Overlord's posts all the high end cable opponents tend to be tactful and full of opinion which is the same from cable proponents. 

 Do people who have spent $2000 on a cable feel guilty or have buyers remorse and need to take it out on people who think their cable is a waste of money? It's like someone telling me I am an idiot cause he bought a Ferrari which gets him from here to there "better" and I am content with my Subaru. It might even be better but I dont see the value in a car that costs $400k and gets 8mpg just because it looks fancy and is fast. My $10k car gets me to work and the store and back to my home. 

 I am in both camps with cables I think with pricier cables in the analog world you can get better quality in sound and a much better build due to higher surface area for the electrical signal to travel and better materials being capable of reducing interference and better conductivity. However I think there is a definite point of diminishing returns where cost no longer equals definabely better SQ just more expensive materials. 

 Digital cables however are digital your signal gets there in 1's and 0's if there is a fault in the cable it will result in no signal. Lets look at for example digital TV tuners. You either get an HD picture or you get nothing (or the signal does the artifacting and fails.) That however is simply the strength of the signal from the source dropping off on your end. Your picture doesnt improve between a signal strength of 3 and 5 all it really says is at 3 you have a greater chance to drop the signal. Where as something tethered by a cable only suffers signal loss over great distances which I don't think are possible in most 6 foot runs of cable . So the only advantage here is a cable that will survive more abuse and perhaps look prettier which I am guilty of caring for. In the end if your cable works it works your problems will arise from the source and whatever is receiving that signal, they could easily have bad converters ect...ect.....


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## JMcMasterJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is another example of why we're starting an Objectivists' Forum (which is what it'll tentatively be titled). Essentially, if you're going to tell me it's placebo (be it about cables, CD players, DACs, etc.), it will have to be posted in (or moved to) that forum after it opens up (which, admittedly, I'll probably not visit too often, except when posts are reported).

 After seeing this thread--and a lot like it over the last several months--this may move to the top of my Head-Fi to-do list for today._

 

I think this is a good idea, but I'm curious about how it will work. For instance, what if someone asks advice about a pair of cables and someone else says something along the lines of "all cables are the same and it doesn't make a difference", what will happen to the thread? Will the thread be moved or will those posts just be deleted, since there will now be a place to post comments like that?


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## viggen

I can only compare between D60 and XV2. I like the XV2 more as it has a bit less glare in the mids. Both are good cables although not my cup(s) of tea.


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JMcMasterJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this is a good idea, but I'm curious about how it will work. For instance, what if someone asks advice about a pair of cables and someone else says something along the lines of "all cables are the same and it doesn't make a difference", what will happen to the thread? Will the thread be moved or will those posts just be deleted, since there will now be a place to post comments like that?_

 

Maybe jude misworded his statement, maybe he means there will be a forum where we can post stuff like DBT's about anything.

 Or maybe he really is trying to just make cable discussions one sided.

 I don't know.

 And as per the children comment: Oh wow, us? We're not the ones dismissing the opinions of people who don't invest $20,000 into our headphone setups. We're not the ones posting condescending posts. We're not the ones who personally insult the other side. We're not the ones that "stop reading after 'my computer'" and completely missing the point of an argument, because they were so childish, they didn't even read it...


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## jaduffy007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After seeing this thread--and a lot like it over the last several months--this may move to the top of my Head-Fi to-do list for today._

 

Jude...I'm new 'round these parts, but just want to encourage creating the Objectivist's forum asap.

 thank you!


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## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe jude misworded his statement, maybe he means there will be a forum where we can post stuff like DBT's about anything.

 Or maybe he really is trying to just make cable discussions one sided.

 I don't know...._

 

I just re-read my post, and now let me be more clear.

 There will be a forum (initially called the Audio Objectivists' Forum, or something similar), where you can post about DBT, placebo, etc., with respect to anything audio-related. People can seek the opinions of cable skeptics, DAC skeptics, etc. in there.

 I'm the type who buys and uses what I like, based on what I hear. I know several of you want to tell me (and others like me) that swapping out my headphone cables or interconnects or DACs or power conditioning equipment is pointless, and that anything I hear is only what I _think_ I hear, and is likely due to placebo effect and pretty casework. Okay, fine. After we open up the Objectivists' Forum, you can tell the world about me (and others like me) being deluded in there.

 This cable forum, for example, is primarily intended for those who are of the inclination that one can improve his/her system with cables and tweaks, and are seeking like-minded discussion--at least that's what I intended when I opened it up however many years ago it was that I opened it up.

 If a person comes here, never having tried audiophile cables, DACs, etc., and wants to ask if they make a difference, he can seek that opinion in here, in the source forums, _and/or_ in the Objectivists' Forum. I will try to write a description for that forum that is clear about what kinds of opinions one is likely to find in there, so the utility and intent of that forum is clear for those who seek it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JMcMasterJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this is a good idea, but I'm curious about how it will work. For instance, what if someone asks advice about a pair of cables and someone else says something along the lines of "all cables are the same and it doesn't make a difference", what will happen to the thread? Will the thread be moved or will those posts just be deleted, since there will now be a place to post comments like that?_

 

We'll see how it rolls once we start it. I think initially what we can try is copying the thread into the Objectivists' Forum, and let it take on its own different life in there. If that doesn't work, we'll adjust our methods. But, as an audio enthusiast of the stripe I mention above, I want to restore the purpose of this forum to what I originally intended, which, from what I gather with my familiarity with this community, is what most also want it intended for.

 OverlordXenu, I don't expect you to agree with this, but I think most who visit this sub-forum will. I've given this a lot of thought, and I can't think of a more reasonable compromise.

 Again, we'll make the necessary adjustments over time, after we create the new sub-forum, to try to best make as many people happy as we reasonably can.


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viggen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can only compare between D60 and XV2. I like the XV2 more as it has a bit less glare in the mids. Both are good cables although not my cup(s) of tea._

 

Well, which digital cable is your cup of tea?

 As much as I hate to join a bandwagon like the Stereovox wagon, I must admit XV2 is a dang fine digital cable, insanely good if you consider the price. I suspect you probably prefer a, eh, richer, warmer sound signature, so have you found a richer digital cable that does not sacrifice the sheer clarity and transparency of XV2?


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## OverlordXenu

Jude, that's actually very sensible, seeing how debate in here usually goes around in circles until people start insulting each other.

 The dual-thread idea sounds great. The OP would be in both sections, then "believers" could post here, and "skeptics" could post in the other section.

 That way, the threads would still be balanced, but people wouldn't be at each other's throats.


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## Riboge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We'll see how it rolls once we start it. I think initially what we can try is copying the thread into the Objectivists' Forum, and let it take on its own different life in there. If that doesn't work, we'll adjust our methods._

 

I take this to mean that only if a thread comes under objectivist assault will it be copied over to the objectivist forum, no? But that just invites efforts to do that across the board, as reflected in the misunderstanding in the following:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jude, that's actually very sensible, seeing how debate in here usually goes around in circles until people start insulting each other.

*The dual-thread idea sounds great. The OP would be in both sections,* then "believers" could post here, and "skeptics" could post in the other section.

 That way, the threads would still be balanced, but people wouldn't be at each other's throats._

 

This, I feel sure, is not what Jude meant nor would it make sense to put an OP's post in a different forum not of his own choosing and in which he may not participate at all. The OP should determine in which forum his thread stays, i.e., what kind of discussion he is beginning. If someone else wants to raise the same thing in the other forum, then he should become the OP for that thread. Posts that don't fit the forum they are entered in should be removed and only moved over to the other forum if someone else has raised the issue again there.


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## stevenkelby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are people children if they disagree with yours or anyones opinion? For the most part with exception of a few of Overlord's posts all the high end cable opponents tend to be tactful and full of opinion which is the same from cable proponents. 

 I said childish in regards to there level of maturity in previous posts (they are obvious if you look for them) and also physical age, which used to be in their profiles.
_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We're not the ones posting condescending posts. We're not the ones who personally insult the other side._

 

I don't want to take the time to search through your past posts and prove your wrong there but I remember specific posts from you and lawngnome in particular that I feel demonstrate childish behavior.


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## DanT

Sorry for the OP for threadjack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but this thread has already been derailed way off course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not much into cable but I'm in the believer camp.

 I think it's a good idea about the objectivity forums or at least some rules to separate thing. Not sure what would be the best implementation or whether a separate forum is the best way to handle this but it seem like a great idea. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jude, that's actually very sensible, seeing how debate in here usually goes around in circles until people start insulting each other._

 

That the main reason why. When someone start discussing a particular cable, a non-believer come in and he said it make no difference. Ok I heard all your argument before and I still choose to be in the believer camp. I don't need to read 10 pages of the same old same old. Thread with 2-3 posts about the actual cable and 50 posts of circular argument are pretty much useless.

 The question is why cable non-believer keep posting in a cable thread. Maybe is to educate the op and newbie that they may make a mistake buying cable and should save their money for something else. Not going to work IMO. I heard the argument before and I choose to believe in cable. That not why I go into this thread I don't want to be educated so stop raining on my parade and let me be a "fools" if I want to. 

 Now I agree that non-believer should have the right to express their opinions.Furthermore there should be some way to counterbalance the cable believer camps or otherwise it will look like massive attack of FOTM cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also said earlier that at that particular moment I didn't want to be educated on cable since that not the reason I click on this particular thread. Maybe some other time I would want to be educated so thread about the validity of cable and objectivity have it's place somewhere. It simply has to stop thread jacking all the thread about cables.

 People will need to read the rules one in a while and post in the good part of the forums for that to work


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## infinitesymphony

Not everyone who tries to be objective is a skeptic, so I take offense to the title Objectivist's Forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Theoretically, it would be more like a "willful ignorance forum," since most of the people who have chosen a side are not objective, and don't care if they're proven wrong with objective proof. So, it would be a forum to visit if you want to have your new decision to upgrade shot down.


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## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not everyone who tries to be objective is a skeptic, so I take offense to the title Objectivist's Forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Theoretically, it would be more like a "willful ignorance forum," since most of the people who have chosen a side are not objective, and don't care if they're proven wrong with objective proof. So, it would be a forum to visit if you want to have your new decision to upgrade shot down. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It does sound a bit like a hey you don't buy into that heres your corner of the internet to have your words lost in. Since the only people wanting to visit it are the people who are skeptical in some way shape or form, where as the other sub forum will be full people telling newbs that spending x amount of dollars on cables is the only way to make Barbara Streisand and Bjork not suck while there will be no counter point element to say even with more expensive cables Streisand and Bjork will still suck.

 I am pretty objective myself and the worst thing is that people who are programmed to think one way about something rarely give good reason other than cause I said so and you are a big stupid head. Even if you somewhat agree, I have brought up the diminishing return factor when price increases and the SQ is no longer as big of a factor as construction and material costs and it gets dismissed by oh but you have never owned $17,000 cables so you are an idiot and your experience with free to $100 cables is bunk. 

 On that note I saw some $1000 cables yesterday, it was a 6 foot rca interconnect with some fancy resistors attached. I may recommend to the owner to contact Hans and try to carry Qables just because I want a taste of head-fi close to home and Hans is a really nice guy so anything to help his business out.

 Would you believe that people buy $20,000 speakers and want to hide them? Thats what that stores theater designer was telling me. People want B&W Nautilus' out of sight! Blasphemy! That is all.


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## viggen

Jon L : Well for rich warmer sound, I used a Cardas Golden Cross analog cable in digital application. This sounded really good. However, I settled using 47 Labs' OTA wire with Eichmann RCA ends. The XV2 sounds chalky in comparison to the OTA wire's clarity-ness. You can buy OTA wire at $2 a foot at sakurasystems.com. And, Eichmann RCAs are $40 a set. I use 1 conductor on the hot and 2 on the ground. This gives the cable a bit more warmth.


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## Pangaea

Jude- think that makes a lot of sense. Lately there are so many threads that deteriorate into something the OP never even wanted to know to begin with. Like which should I get iMac or MacBook- which turns into Mac vs. PC. Or which Grado should I get for metal, which turns into Grado sucks, get AKG. I mean if the OP has already narrowed it down to a brand/ or high end accessory and is looking to pinpoint a selection, whether it be a HP, cable, computer people are not really doing him a service by complaining about that brand/ accessory to begin with. That decision has already been made.


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viggen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jon L : Well for rich warmer sound, I used a Cardas Golden Cross analog cable in digital application. This sounded really good. However, I settled using 47 Labs' OTA wire with Eichmann RCA ends. The XV2 sounds chalky in comparison to the OTA wire's clarity-ness. You can buy OTA wire at $2 a foot at sakurasystems.com. And, Eichmann RCAs are $40 a set. I use 1 conductor on the hot and 2 on the ground. This gives the cable a bit more warmth._

 

Hmm. I've made very similar DIY digital cables using solid core copper like OTA and Eichmann bulletplugs, and no way were they as good as XV2, especially in detail resolution. 

 I'm willing to give it a try, but I don't see any section at Sakurasystems.com about OTA wire by the foot. Do I have to call them? 

 BTW, did you then tri braid the 3 wires?


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## Vangelis

Man, I started this thread to hear from folks about Chris’s cables. Thanks to the few members that contributed their experiences on the sonics. Telling me I’m simply wrong is not contributing to this thread. Somehow still, people who can't hear the differences or have systems won’t reveal changes just have to chime in about how wrong we all are about digital cables. For better or worse, all digital cables make a contribution to the sound of a DAC. Each cable provides a sonic foot print. None of us need to hear that sonic differences mealy lye in our imagination. 

 Some of you may remember Julian Hirsch who single handedly did more to damage the Audio Industry than anyone in history. Thru the 60s, 70, and 80s he convinced American consumers with the help of his bench test gear that it if a difference doesn’t show up in specs than there is simply no difference in sound at all.

 By the way, the naysayer members regards digital cables etc aren’t just unenlightened. In fact I’m convinced they just can’t help themselves, their bodies and minds have been possessed by the ghost of Julian Hirsch, repeating over & over…Amplifiers all sound the same, specs are specs, speaker wire and interconnects all the same, turntables no difference, better sounding power cords and power conditioners, in the their imagination, digital cables simply Audio Voodoo.


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## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vangelis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, I started this thread to hear from folks about Chris’s cables. Thanks to the few members that contributed their experiences on the sonics. Telling me I’m simply wrong is not contributing to this thread. Somehow still, people who can't hear the differences or have systems won’t reveal changes just have to chime in about how wrong we all are about digital cables. For better or worse, all digital cables make a contribution to the sound of a DAC. Each cable provides a sonic foot print. None of us need to hear that sonic differences mealy lye in our imagination. 

 Some of you may remember Julian Hirsch who single handedly did more to damage the Audio Industry than anyone in history. Thru the 60s, 70, and 80s he convinced American consumers with the help of his bench test gear that it if a difference doesn’t show up in specs than there is simply no difference in sound at all.

 By the way, the naysayer members regards digital cables etc aren’t just unenlightened. In fact I’m convinced they just can’t help themselves, their bodies and minds have been possessed by the ghost of Julian Hirsch, repeating over & over…Amplifiers all sound the same, specs are specs, speaker wire and interconnects all the same, turntables no difference, better sounding power cords and power conditioners, in the their imagination, digital cables simply Audio Voodoo._

 

Thats exactly what I was talking about. Since I have never heard a difference in two different digital cables I am unenlightened? Even if I acknowledge that analog cables can make a difference and know that my 85wpc Sansui blows my 120 wpc Yamaha out of the water in terms of sound quality. I had no idea so many people get so defensive and feel the need to attack others that dont agree with them 100%. I simply don't get it.


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## meat01

Quote:


 Many audiophiles have have the opinion that 75ohm spdif digital cables do not sound their best when they are too short or too long. Anyone have any experience with these topics? It would be appreciated. 
 

You asked for opinions and experiences and now you are bashing people who gave you opinions that do not agree with yours. Next time make it clear that you only want to hear things you agree with. People have just as much right to their opinion as you do.


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## Sovkiller

Jude I think that it will be fair for both sides of the fence, if you call that new section, *Audio Objectivist forum*, to call this old one then *Audio Subjectivist forum* (or Audio Dreamers...LOL...) as I have never seen here posted, any physical evidence other than the same yada-yada that I hear this or that, and that you have to try this and that, to believe. And the last lie, that your opinion will have more weight once you have tried this and that for yourself....BS!!! that is IMO another double standard of the believers, as what happen when you try and are not able to hear a ****, and as a result you will not believe a **** and do not agree with them? Then your opinion will be as respected as it was before, while you have not tried anything...the only way to get peace with them is while you agree with them...period... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 Another section will only isolate the different opinions, which is IMO the engine of any forum, the discussion and the debate of a given topic...closing your mind and believe blindly like a zealot in one thing, is IMO not the way to go, so what is the use of having this kind of forums them...

 I thought that this forum begin to improve the day we get more and more different opinions, IIRC in the past i felt that it was more like a voodooish forum in which if you state some opinions you were stoned alive, now at least we have different opinions from people with education and experience in both fields, believe what you want, but let the other people talk...which also serve a purpose...just my two cents...


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## viggen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. I've made very similar DIY digital cables using solid core copper like OTA and Eichmann bulletplugs, and no way were they as good as XV2, especially in detail resolution. 

 I'm willing to give it a try, but I don't see any section at Sakurasystems.com about OTA wire by the foot. Do I have to call them? 

 BTW, did you then tri braid the 3 wires?_

 

Sorry, I made a mistake. Sakurasystems sell a 25ft cable for $50 which equates to $2 per foot. That's what I "meant" to say. 

 You will have a hard time braiding OTA wire as the insulation is stiff. There is a long discussion thread on audiogon.com about the attributes of OTA wire by 47 labs. Braiding, in most cases, diminishes the sound quality. In my experience, not only with digital cables, separating the ground and the hot as far as possible will yield the best sound (assuming you have no efi/rfi problems).

 For the cable I made, I shrink wrapped the two grounds and kept the hot run free except where it is shrink wrapped at the RCA terminations. 

 I too messed around with a bunch of home brews before dawning on the OTA... So far only the Ridge Street Audio cable surpasses it in my system.


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## Vangelis

As said at the start, I enjoy this topic which was intended to be an open and friendly dialog about Chris Sommovigo’ s digital cable history. As usual the “bits are bits’ crowd just can’t stay on topic. This is exactly why I’ve been member for six years with few postings. Those that get mad that I don’t want to discuss others opinions are simply off topic or worse as the just the 2nd replay said “Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way should have all of their claims questioned” This is NOT an opinion, or off topic, its an insult and why I get defensive. Maybe the” bits are bits" Gestapo should start a forum and all gang up on us foolish members that buy products like Chris Sommovigo’s. Perhaps it could be called the “YOUR WRONG & DIGITALLY IMPARED” forum. They could live there and bash away while leaving the rest us focused on topic. Better yet I think I’m going back under ground as I was for years and just quit posting. I'm getting to old for this. 
 Thanks to fishski13, viggen, Jon L, for addressing my post on topic and sharing their experiences with Chris’s cables and their XV2.


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## viggen

There's just more to it than simple bit to bit transmission going on when dealing with digital cables or any other type of cable/wire. We're playing with stereos after all not networked servers.


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viggen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far only the Ridge Street Audio cable surpasses it in my system._

 

I hope you're not talking about Poiema!!! R-v2 S/PDIF
 Digital Master at $500/1m. I guess I'd rather make my own at that point.

 My previous experience with RSA Midnight Silver analogue cables were not very impressive, however..


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## viggen

Hmm... sorry to cause a bit more confusion... my comparison vis-a-vis RSA were speaker cables not digital cables. I borrowed a pair of RSA Poiema original version speaker cables for about a month. The unstated assertion is the RSA's speaker cable advantages over the OTA is probably tantamount to that of their digital cables.

 BTW, I have my entire system wired up with OTA from ICs, to SCs to PCs. So, synergy does help. If I got the loot to burn, I'd go RSA all around.


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is another example of why we're starting an Objectivists' Forum (which is what it'll tentatively be titled). Essentially, if you're going to tell me it's placebo (be it about cables, CD players, DACs, etc.), it will have to be posted in (or moved to) that forum after it opens up (which, admittedly, I'll probably not visit too often, except when posts are reported).

 After seeing this thread--and a lot like it over the last several months--this may move to the top of my Head-Fi to-do list for today._

 

thank you! no more thread-crapping


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## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thank you for this wonderful site, but I personally think this is a terrible idea...Threads need to be balanced. Allowing only one view in a thread is just censoring (which I realize you can do, as this is a private site), and I see it as counter-productive to the end goal of why we all post on this forum...which is to share our views, and try to help each other obtain high-fidelity, no?_

 

How is trolling helpful?


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## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *meat01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You asked for opinions and experiences and now you are bashing people who gave you opinions that do not agree with yours. Next time make it clear that you only want to hear things you agree with. People have just as much right to their opinion as you do._

 

Because people like you go off topic & the thread now becomes prove to me that theres a difference. I don't believe in headphone burn in, but I don't post, prove it to me, its in your mind type responses which gets both sides in a fighting mood.


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A digital cable is a digital cable. I recall reading Benchmark saying they tested their DAC using a wire hanger from their transport to their DAC, and you know what? It worked perfectly.

 Bits are bits. A cable isn't going to change that.

 Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way (ie. using a $100 digital cable will make your system sound better than using a $5 one) should have all of their claims questioned._

 

I thought the exact same as you did. I figured when I bought my new cable I was not going to hear any difference at all and was not looking to hear a difference. Nevertheless, I picked a reputable company and decided to buy one for $55. (read the whole front page of CobaltCable.com) But to my amazement, the difference was quite noticable.

 I can only think there are two reasons for this, since obviously a digital bit can not undergo a change in sound quality:

 1) More steady current (voltage) gets transmitted through the cable allowing the DAC to have a better or easier time interpretting the signal

 2) More shielding/better shielding allows less interference and less noise to pass through the cable and on to the DAC.

 I thought my neighbor was nuts when he told me his digital cable cost $1,000. Cobalt Cable makes excellent cables and they are not snake oil salesmen. But my $55 cable from them sounds a whole lot better than the 75 ohm generic component video cable I was using.

 My ESI Juli@ soundcard uses a breakout cable for the Coax plug, so I am trying to find out which pins are actually transmitting the Coax signal from the card so that I can have Cobalt make me a custom cable for that purpose.


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## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vangelis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As said at the start, I enjoy this topic which was intended to be an open and friendly dialog about Chris Sommovigo’ s digital cable history. As usual the “bits are bits’ crowd just can’t stay on topic. This is exactly why I’ve been member for six years with few postings. Those that get mad that I don’t want to discuss others opinions are simply off topic or worse as the just the 2nd replay said “Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way should have all of their claims questioned” This is NOT an opinion, or off topic, its an insult and why I get defensive. Maybe the” bits are bits" Gestapo should start a forum and all gang up on us foolish members that buy products like Chris Sommovigo’s. Perhaps it could be called the “YOUR WRONG & DIGITALLY IMPARED” forum. They could live there and bash away while leaving the rest us focused on topic. Better yet I think I’m going back under ground as I was for years and just quit posting. I'm getting to old for this. 
 Thanks to fishski13, viggen, Jon L, for addressing my post on topic and sharing their experiences with Chris’s cables and their XV2._

 

Focused on a one sided topic. I don't care that anyone wants to come out and say hey this cable does this whereas this cheaper cable doesnt do it as well. I should however have the right to post a disagreement. I haven't read any of the rules stating that I cannot disagree with people without the fear losing my right to post my opinions in that forum. If I start a thread stating that digital cables make no difference in accordance to price, it is garaunteed that someone will come in telling me how they infact do, they should have that right as I and other should have ours. People act like shady politicians and stop listening to opinion when it doesn't serve their purpose.

  Quote:


 I thought the exact same as you did. I figured when I bought my new cable I was not going to hear any difference at all and was not looking to hear a difference. Nevertheless, I picked a reputable company and decided to buy one for $55. (read the whole front page of CobaltCable.com) But to my amazement, the difference was quite noticable.

 I can only think there are two reasons for this, since obviously a digital bit can not undergo a change in sound quality:

 1) More steady current (voltage) gets transmitted through the cable allowing the DAC to have a better or easier time interpretting the signal

 2) More shielding/better shielding allows less interference and less noise to pass through the cable and on to the DAC.

 I thought my neighbor was nuts when he told me his digital cable cost $1,000. Cobalt Cable makes excellent cables and they are not snake oil salesmen. But my $55 cable from them sounds a whole lot better than the 75 ohm generic component video cable I was using.

 My ESI Juli@ soundcard uses a breakout cable for the Coax plug, so I am trying to find out which pins are actually transmitting the Coax signal from the card so that I can have Cobalt make me a custom cable for that purpose. 
 

This is a perfect example of a rare but great pro cable argument. He gives logical reasoning to back his belief but I am not gonna bash him for it which is what cable proponents love to do to posts like that with the opposite view. And you know what I buy his argument cause I cannot think of anything to refute his claim.


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## Vul Kuolun

Best thing is, as long as it's "pro cable", there's absolutely no speculation to absurd or unqualified to be discussed here. Asking a non-technical person about technical issues is not clever. At all.
 You'd rather kick the engineer out of the forum and speculate with his grandmom about possible reasons for the miraculous changes you experience. At least as long as it's a pseudo-technical speculation, and doesn't involve your perception and expectancy.

 But as soon as someone with (as basic as it may be) real technical information (on which your whole audio-technology is based) comes around and takes part, it's "Gestapo". You do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about when it comes to the Gestapo, do you?

 Go, team Sponsor-fi. 
 There's a point, when beeing ripped off is nothing but fair punishment for total ignorance.


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## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vangelis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As said at the start, I enjoy this topic which was intended to be an open and friendly dialog about Chris Sommovigo’ s digital cable history. As usual the “bits are bits’ crowd just can’t stay on topic. This is exactly why I’ve been member for six years with few postings. Those that get mad that I don’t want to discuss others opinions are simply off topic or worse as the just the 2nd replay said “Anyone who thinks a digital cable affects sound quality in any way should have all of their claims questioned” This is NOT an opinion, or off topic, its an insult and why I get defensive. Maybe the” bits are bits" Gestapo should start a forum and all gang up on us foolish members that buy products like Chris Sommovigo’s. Perhaps it could be called the “YOUR WRONG & DIGITALLY IMPARED” forum. They could live there and bash away while leaving the rest us focused on topic. Better yet I think I’m going back under ground as I was for years and just quit posting. I'm getting to old for this. 
 Thanks to fishski13, viggen, Jon L, for addressing my post on topic and sharing their experiences with Chris’s cables and their XV2._

 

too bad your topic got crapped on. hopefully the mods will come up with a solution in the near future so that members can have a worthwhile and enlightening discussion without all the noise. 

 PACE


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishski13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_too bad your topic got crapped on. hopefully the mods will come up with a solution in the near future so that members can have a worthwhile and enlightening discussion without all the noise. 

 PACE_

 

That reminds me of Soviet Russia, in which no political dissent was allowed, even if it was credible/needed/true.


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## yage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That reminds me of Soviet Russia, in which no political dissent was allowed, even if it was credible/needed/true._

 

I was wondering how long it would take before someone would post this type of ridiculous analogy.


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## yotacowboy

"Hi everyone, I'd like to get some feedback about a certain washing machine. I'm looking to purchase a new one for Christmas. Will the WasherDeluxe 2000 PRO get my whites whiter?

 Thanks in advance,
 Subjectivist Steve"

 "Thanks for your post, Steve, but why waste your money on a new washing machine? It's all overpriced crap compared to a good old-fashioned washing board, and there's little scientific proof as to whether spending ANY money on a washing machine will actually get you cleaner clothes. Besides, the company that makes the WasherDeluxe line is a bunch of scam artists trying to steal your money! I've never tried a washing machine to wash my clothes, but I can't see reason to, either. The scientific proof is overwhelming.

 Objectivist Al"

 "Thanks for your response, Al, but I'm not just interested in just getting my clothes clean, I'd like to get my whites whiter. How white are your whites when using a washing board? Thanks in advance!

 Subjectivist Steve"

 "Well, there's no reason to get whiter whites, honestly, once your clothes are clean, that's all you really need! It's mostly snake oil salesmen at the appliance store, so I'd suggest you keep your money and get a washing board. The scientific journals of clothes cleaning can't prove that anything will get whiter whites, as long as your clothes are clean, you'll have the whitest whites scientifically possible!

 Don't waste your money!

 Objectivist Al"


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## stevenkelby

Anyone who thinks a washing machine gets clothes clean should have all of their claims questioned.


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## Vul Kuolun

Replace "washing maschine" with "washing powder" and it makes perfect sense.
 Thank god, people don't take sales promotion for washing powder as serious as for audio cables.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, which digital cable is your cup of tea?

 As much as I hate to join a bandwagon like the Stereovox wagon, I must admit XV2 is a dang fine digital cable, insanely good if you consider the price. I suspect you probably prefer a, eh, richer, warmer sound signature, so have you found a richer digital cable that does not sacrifice the sheer clarity and transparency of XV2?_

 

I have been using Dacs for last 6+ years, started with Bel Canto Dac 1 and now have fully RAM modded BC Dac 2 with Audiocom Super Clock 4. 

 For digital cables after trying several I was happy with 1 meter *Acoustic Zen MC2* long ago, then went with various cheap *glass fiber Toslink* cables for a couple years. Then went to original *Sterevox XV* and then *XV2*, very pleased with sound and have no desire to change, best sound I have heard from any digital cable at a sane price.

 I use 1 meter length and see no reason why 1.5 meter should sound better, of course if you need the extra length some may pay more for it used since some people use the 1.5m as standard length.

 The best testimonial to XV2 sound is that I can sell mine today used at Audiogon for almost same price I paid new............


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## yotacowboy

the issue remains:

 did steve get any of his questions answered?

 is this line of questions and responses helpful for steve in his quest for whiter whites?

 in all honesty, this entire site has begun to slide downhill with all the DBT/objectivist discussions running rampant around here. Most posts are met with the same tired, pointless, and boring arguments against anything related to break-in/burn-in, cables, digital (its just ones and zeroes, right?), etc. All you objectivists need to take your headphones off, get out, meet some people and listen to A BUNCH of different equipment. use your ears to find what sounds best! maybe even go to a local community college string quartet for free, or go to your local symphony orchestra to see what live, unamplified music can sound like!


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## viggen

I sold my XV for exactly what I bought it for... but then I bought it while Chris was running this "75ohm for $75" deal... It was a hard deal to pass up.


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## 1UP

My ART UBYTE-2 (20ft BNC-BNC) cable is quite a lot better than my Stereovox HDXV, which itself is very good.

ART - SPDIF cables

 Digital cables don't all sound the same! Anything with RCA isn't even 75ohm, so yeah you might as well use a coathanger.

 Put it this way, I'm about to move to the States, and the only hi-fi gear I'm bringing is my SPDIF cable, haha


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## ar-t

Thank you for that mention, 1UP. I wish that I could say I remember who you are, but I can't. We have not sold our cable in the 20' length, and that name, for over 15 years. Give or take a year or.

 (It is now sold as 16', and we dropped the -2 on the end. Long story.)

 So, if that is all that you are bringing with you to the States, a 15-year old cable must be pretty good is all that I can conclude.

 Please contact me when you make it on our side of the pond.

 Thanks,
 Pat


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## ar-t

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vangelis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_. Many audiophiles have have the opinion that 75ohm spdif digital cables do not sound their best when they are too short or too long. Anyone have any experience with these topics? It would be appreciated._

 

Audiophiles have lots of opinions, and not all are correct.

 Too short, yes, bad idea. "Too short" is 0.5 metres. Awful sounding. To some, "too long" is anything over 2 metres. Wrong!

 "Too long" is........well, we have sold 20 m. cables. The owners did not send them back. You decide.

 Pat


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## 1UP

Ah, missed your reply after moving - sent you an e-mail, Pat


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## panda

i still use the original illuminations d-60 but to be honest it didn't make much difference from the cheapie one i got from best buy. i'm pretty sure it's mostly placebo but i did hear a slight improvement so i've stuck with it.


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