# Fostex to release revolutionary DAC/amp combo!



## Sasaki

Fostex reveals a plan that they are going to develop revolutionary portable DAC amp combo!
 This is a great entry to the portable audio world.
 Fostex is primary known for speakers and headphones supplier, but they are also known as professional recording studio gears. so they are experts of electronics as well.

 CG images (concept images, subject to change) here. Click to see larger.


　　　　　




 Here is a key summary that I can open at this moment.

 * takes *iPod&iPhone DIGITAL out *like iTransport (has Made-For-Ipod officially)
 * shell is integrated into *one piece*, iPod/iPhone adjustable. *No interconnect cable is required*.
 (This configuration is subject to change)
 * has *optical out*

 The mock-up would be displayed in the headphone festival 2010 Tokyo.

 I will post further info whenever available.
 This is quite exciting news to headfiers!


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## clarinetman

Looks awesome!!

 Too bad they'll never come out with it for anything less mainstream...


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## Sasaki

Here is a FOSTEX developer interview. He speaks that the amp would be out around the end of October(time of Fall headphones festival) or by the end of this year. 


+ YouTube Video​ _*ERROR:* If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed._ 



 He also mention KOTORI earbuds. This is user customisable colorful earbuds.
KOTORI


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## rhythmdevils

it's cute how they copy the back of the ipod. Hard to tell what it would look like though from those pics. but it looks rather large. maybe transportable instead of pocket


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## Mad Max

So your ipod goes in it? Cool.


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## kostalex

Go, Fostex, go!


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## draven5494

Wow, that is exactly what I have been looking for! I will definitely keep my eyes on this.


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## dannie01

Interesting, looking for more info. Thanks Sasaki.


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## prone2phone

good, but ibasso d10 has crappy dac and UHA-6S not so stellar amp


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good, but ibasso d10 has crappy dac and UHA-6S not so stellar amp_

 

Interest comments, I have both and I completely disagree. Both IMO sound outstanding either as a dac/amp or amp only.


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good, but ibasso d10 has crappy dac and UHA-6S not so stellar amp_

 

Compared to what?


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## kostalex

Is iPod 5.5gen compatible with the digital docks, like Wadia, Onkyo and this upcoming Fostex?


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## cooperpwc

It looks rather thick - which I don't mind. I want a transportable solution. Very exciting. With so many good amps out there, upgrading the DAC from an iPhone is the only true frontier at this stage.

 I wonder how it will control volume? (Looks like it might be all digital controls?)


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## Ypoknons

hmmm... last month and I would have had no choice. But now the iPad does USB out....


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## Sasaki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is iPod 5.5gen compatible with the digital docks, like Wadia, Onkyo and this upcoming Fostex?_

 

iPod 5.5G woks on Wadia iTransport but with limited UI capability. Ken's iMod also works. Here is a link.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/wa...g-imod-391737/


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## Sasaki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I wonder how it will control volume? (Looks like it might be all digital controls?)_

 

The top and bottom figure is not shown here, I will update when I get them.


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## pekingduck

Thanks Sasaki San! still another 6-8 months...damn


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## crumpler

Is optical out the only output option at the moment? Cos IIRC, there aren't many portable DAC/Amp combo that accepts optical input. Most of them do however accept USB!


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## Sasaki

I got improved figure to show details better.





 Grey area on the top panel is undetermined area.


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## LevA

ok, a bit confused here...this is a dac/amp combo, but will also have optical out. so we can hook it up to a home dac + amp combo and use the ipod as a digital source. Can we also just bypass the amp and hook it up to our other amps, using only the fostex dac as line out?? coz in the above picture there looks like a line out but not sure if that is the case...


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## Sasaki

I think your assumption is right. All the features are not clear at the moment. This coming weekend is our headphones show, I will update later.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can we also just bypass the amp and hook it up to our other amps, using only the fostex dac as line out??_


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## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sasaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think your assumption is right. All the features are not clear at the moment. This coming weekend is our headphones show, I will update later._

 

Thanks Sasaki. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 look forward to your update. I sure hope there will be a line out so we can make use of our portable amps and choose the sound sign. we enjoy with different HPs!


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## Sasaki

I guess they will bring 3D mockup to the show.
  I will update with pictures to get more clear image of the amp.


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## Sasaki

Today we had our headphone show and Fostex exhibits the 3D mock-up.
  Here are some pictures. Click picture to enlarge (corrected links).
   

   
  
   
    
   
  The switch is volume knob, gain sw, DAC setting, power.
  The another model in the middle picture is another proto-type. More ordinal model.
  You can see line-out port in the right picture.


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## LevA

thanks Sasaki. do you have any larger pictures? they come out too small on the site so it's hard to see. 
  but from the looks of it, it will be pretty chunky
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  I think its aimed at as a transportable desktop setup rather than portable.


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## Sasaki

This is just a proto-type so there could be a improvement toward the final production model, I think.
   
  About the picture size, Yes I have larger one as before. Bt I could not find a method to link larger size to thumbnail in this new forum. here are the links.
   
http://vaiopocket.up.seesaa.net/image/IMG_1348.jpg
http://vaiopocket.up.seesaa.net/image/IMG_1349.jpg
http://vaiopocket.up.seesaa.net/image/IMG_1350.jpg
   
http://vaiopocket.up.seesaa.net/image/IMG_1353.jpg
http://vaiopocket.up.seesaa.net/image/IMG_1354.jpg
http://vaiopocket.up.seesaa.net/image/IMG_7127.jpg


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## Sasaki

I found a method how to link larger pictures into the thumbnails finally.
  Click thumbnails in the original post(#24).


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## MrGreen

Holy crap that's xbox huge
   
  I also think the knobs are on the wrong side, but its pretty obvious why theyre on that side.


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## LevA

it is a bit bulky, but if the DAC is good and with line out it might make a vary nice transportable source. 
  i am quite excited.
  Thanks Sasaki for putting up larger pics. Any mention of the price range it will be? a ballpark figure?


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## Mad Max

Sw33t.


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## Lil' Knight

It's much bigger than I expected. Reminds me of the Transformers


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> It's much bigger than I expected. Reminds me of the Transformers


 
  CANNOT UNSEE
  XD


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## qusp

hmm, not sure what to make of that. having it all built in like that is cool I guess, but doesnt look like it saved them any space and you are stuck with the amp that is inside of course. hmm I still like separates so I can tune the sound to how I like and I actually think with the new ipad dock, there will be iphone/touch functionality soon enough. you can sure make a smaller amp/dac than that minus the iphone bulk, its not a market I would enter into yet, there will be competition driving the price down and quality up


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## Mr Do

Great concept but wish it was a lot slimmer.


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## Sasaki

The price is currently announced as around 70000 yen (almost US$700).


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## LevA

Quote: 





sasaki said:


> The price is currently announced as around 70000 yen (almost US$700).


 

 wow..that's a bit steep. hopefully the price will go down.


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## Mad Max

=\


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## qusp

lol, and still no announcement as to what is inside?


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## LevA

well, though the price is a bit steep, I'm still hopeful. 
  I've been looking at a decent dac and if this thing can deliver, might just be willing to part with my wallet..lol
  depending on how this thing will sound, it might offer a better value than the hifiman 801 - better storage capacity, better UI, longer battery etc. yeah I know they are different as one is a player and the fostex isn't but as it stands hi-fiman has too many compromises for a player...
  an alternative is to just get a small dac but tbh I hate listening with my computer when travelling. battery life too short, much bigger size etc. the fostex will make it a nice source +dac for me. and I view the amp as extra. if it's good sounding thats great, but if not no worries as i will use my own portable amp..


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## krmathis

Great concept!


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## cooperpwc

I actually like the chunkiness of it. It screams no nonsense.
   
  But it only makes sense if the DAC and amp are supreme. At $700, here is hoping!


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## DanBa

Other pictures:
  http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100510_366122.html
http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fav.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fnews%2F20100510_366122.html&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8


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## Mad Max

It looks like it's built to take some punishment.
  It has this feel to it that I cannot put into words.


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## LevA

hang on....am I wrong to assume that fostex has already developed a small adaptor (LOD) to bypass the DAC from ipod by looking at this picture? and unless you need the fostex Dac/amp combo we can just get the LOD (digital lod? DLOD?) and hook it up to our existing Dac/amps....??
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  or is there a proprietor code access from the ipod within the amp that will not work with others..??


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## cooperpwc

I think that those are just two different prototypes - a thick one with the connector built in and a thinner one which sits external to the iPhone. For the second one, I doubt that the USB electronics are all in that connection cable.


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## LevA

hey cooperpwc,
   
  yeah, after thinking through I assume its in the unit...
  I think I prefer the in-built unit, as you don't have to deal with cables. and would come in handy in a fight!


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## cooperpwc

Quote:


leva said:


> hey cooperpwc,
> 
> yeah, after thinking through I assume its in the unit...
> I think I prefer the in-built unit, as you don't have to deal with cables. _*and would come in handy in a fight!*_


 

 lol. Never underestimate the importance of this. Especially if they are fighting to steal your portable stereo!


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## LevA

not to mention it will be easier to justify the price to your better half, instead of showing her matchbox size boxes...
*"...and you paid how much for this tiny thing??!%&*$"...... LOL*


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## busyx2

Instead of paying $400 for an iPOD digital output device, why not upgrade to iPAD and use any USB Audio DAC?
   
  My iPAD is on order.


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## Aevum

dont know... to keep it portable ?
   
  i never got the ipad usb dac joke, so you´re replacing the audio hardware which is actually half decent, but keeping all the software component which is the bad part, you know?,  that closed propritary system with limited format suport and the crap EQ software that makes a player thats actually built with decent parts sound like ass ?
   
  "yea, the engine on my car is a piece of sh... so im going to replace the transmision" heh ?


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## cooperpwc

Aevum, if your complaint is an inability to EQ, I think that you miss the point of this thread. It's aimed at high end audio.


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## Aevum

no, my complaint is you´re bypassing the entire hardware sound circuit and sticking with the software when the main problem with ipods and ipads is the other way around, its the software thats failing you, not the hardware, i really hate ipods, not becuase i hate apple (which i do, but thats another story), its becuase i´ve allways seen how they pick out some of the best hardware componentes in terms of amps, dacs and general build, and then put them togather in such a piss poor way, and then slap on a closed proprietary system that cripples it even further, its like going to the market, buying the freshest veggies, the best quality meats, then letting a 5 year old cook the stew with playdoe, and then letting him take a crap inside the pot, the USB dac on the ipad is a joke, you´re replacing the hardware component when the real problem is caused by the software,


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## cooperpwc

Of course, there is a room for different opinions on whether the iPod Touch/iPhone music player is an exquisite interface, lousy interface or somewhere in-between. But when you elevate your own tastes to deeming the USB DAC out (and by extension therefore the Fostex) a "joke", well...
   
  Let's just say that we agree to disagree. Cheers.


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## .Sup

Is that the thickness pictured on the photo?


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## cooperpwc

Well resurrected, Sup. Any update on this?


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## MrProggie

Very interesting. I might have to consider getting an 5.5g iPod if the Fostex DAC/Amp doesn't become too expensive.


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## warp08

For a moment I thought I was looking at a steel plated HiFiMAN that swallowed an iPod.  So, is this meant to compete with the upcoming Cypher Labs Algorithm Solo transport+ ALO RX Mk2 combo?


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## Shaunyboy

Did it come out yet?


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## MrProggie

Quote: 





shaunyboy said:


> Did it come out yet?


 

 It is supposed to come out somewhere between October and end of this year.


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## aloksatoor

Since this will be a mainstream product hoping that we can get some deals on this as compared to ALO's offering which will be rarely discounted.....


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## DanBa

Fostex prototype at "Headphone Festival 2010 Autumn":[size=medium] [/size]
http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201010/30/27179.html


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## DanBa

Another pictures:
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20101101_403957.html


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## cooperpwc

So they went for the design that doesn't incorporate the thick metal iPhone enclosure. That's smart. If it will include instead the soft pack in the picture, that is a nice setup.
   
  Now... how does it sound???


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## qusp

do want!!
  aaarrggh, actually just spotted it has a volume knob, I was thinking it was just a transport, why must they keep on including things I dont need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just want a device to get the digital out from ipod plain and simple, I do not want to pay for a dac and amp I wont use. oh well, guess i'm sticking to the iriver then


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## Sasaki

Fostex portable dac/amp sounded remarkably good. I thought this is like a small HP-A7. The portable inherit Fostex sound signature that is flat and neutral. Especially great with edition8.
  
  Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> So they went for the design that doesn't incorporate the thick metal iPhone enclosure. That's smart. If it will include instead the soft pack in the picture, that is a nice setup.
> 
> Now... how does it sound???


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## ClieOS

From the pictures, it also seems to have an USB input on the back (assuming it is for PC) and a line-in on the front. If it is so, that will be very smart for Fostex to make an amp that is compatible to iPod/iPhone as well as most other devices out there.


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## monsieurguzel

Hmmm, this doesn't look so interesting anymore now that it isn't integrated with the iPod anymore.  It looks bigger than the algorythm solo, its more expensive ($800), and probably won't sound as good (just a hunch).  I think the really high Yen is also working again it in the US at least.


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## DanBa

According to the Japanese web site
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20101101_403957.html
  the USB port on the back of the Fostex HP-P1 is a USB charging connector port.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> Hmmm, this doesn't look so interesting anymore now that it isn't integrated with the iPod anymore.  It looks bigger than the algorythm solo, its more expensive ($800), and probably won't sound as good (just a hunch).  I think the really high Yen is also working again it in the US at least.


 

 SQ between this and the Solo is anyone's guess at this point.
   
  The Solo is a DAC and coaxial out only. This is also an amp.
   
  Do we know if the Fostex has both a line out and coaxial out?


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## DanBa

It has an optical out.


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## cooperpwc

danba said:


> It has an optical out.



Hmm... Not the best decision on that one IMHO.


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## elnero

Does anyone know if digital input is from an iPod only or will it accept USB from a computer?


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## swifttal

Also has anyone confirmed this thing takes the digits asynchronously?


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## DanBa

Fostex HP-P1 (DAC/amp combo) & Alo Audio Rx MkII (amp):


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## pinoyman

subscribed!


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## kiertijai

Can anyone update about its specification?
  What DAC is used?  and What kind of amplifier it is?
  Any comparison to the ipod, imod, algorhythm solo + ALO amp, Pure i-20+ipod?
  Is it available for preorder and what is the price?


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## isao2k8

Fostex annouced yesterday that this "HP-P1" would be released on Feb. 28.
   
News release (PDF, Japanese)
   
  Price: 68250YEN (815USD)
  DAC chip: AKM AK4480
  Charging time: 5 hours
  Play time: 7 hours
  75x25x130mm
  260g


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## Anaxilus

USB huh.


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





isao2k8 said:


> Fostex annouced yesterday that this "HP-P1" would be released on Feb. 28.
> 
> News release (PDF, Japanese)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Head phone output terminal (stereo mini- jack) installed capacity: 80mW + 80mW (32 Ω loads)
  conformity load impedance: 16 Ω or more
  Frequency response: 20Hz~20kHz ± 0.3dB (at 32 Ω loads and 80mW output), THD+N: 0.01% or less (at 1kHz and 32 Ω load, 50mW output)
   
  [LINE OUT] output terminal (stereo mini- jack) installed capacity level: 2Vrms (0DBFS)
  frequency characteristic: 20Hz~20kHz ± 0.3dB, THD+N: 0.002% or less (0DBFS)
   
  Analog input terminal (stereo mini- jack) largest input: Approximately 3Vrms
   
  [S/PDIF] output terminal (optical) S/PDIF format (IEC 60958-3, JEITA CPR-1205)
   
  USB connector for Dock cable (for iPod/iPhone connection): USB Type A
   
  [DC-IN] terminal: USB Mini Type B
   
  [FILTER] Change-over Switch: [shiyapuroruohu] filter/[minimamudeirei] filter _*<=== wut?*_
   
  Power source: Built-in lithium ion electric battery - Charge time: Approximately 5 hours (HP-P1 power source OFF) - Continuous action time: Approximately 7 hours (with an iPod connected and headphone output 32Ω, normal temperature)
   
  External size: 75 (width) x 25 (height, the feet not to be included) x 130 (depth, projection ones are included) mm
   
  Weight: Approximately 260g
   
  Accessories: Dock connector USB cable and USB cable for charge, carrying case, instruction manual


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> USB huh.


 

 Not sure what connector you would expect. The Solo is also using USB:


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## Anaxilus

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Not sure what connector you would expect. The Solo is also using USB:


 

 I wasn't confused by it, I was surprised.  In a positive way.  I shouldn't have been though after looking at the price.  The Solo also has quite the pricetag attached to it as well which does not incentivize me backtracking to Apple products again.


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## isao2k8

Quote: 





mad max said:


> [FILTER] Change-over Switch: [shiyapuroruohu] filter/[minimamudeirei] filter _*<=== wut?*_


 

 Sharp roll-off filter / Minimum delay filter. (DAC's digital filter)


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## a_tumiwa

if i connect usb flashdisk/mp3 player with usb data to the usb port/input of P1 , does it work?


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## Ra97oR

It does look rather interesting, but shame about the price.


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## Kubernetes

This thing barely qualifies as a portable.  It's huge, and it has a 5 hour charge time and 7 hour run time.  Ouch!


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





kubernetes said:


> This thing barely qualifies as a portable...


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## cooperpwc

The HP-P1 manual can be downloaded here. (Scroll through the Japanese pages to get to the English version.)


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## DanBa

Some HP-P1 pictures from Sasaki's Japanese blog:
http://vaiopocket.seesaa.net/


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## elnero

It's too bad the USB input can only be used with an iPhone/iPod, if you were able to use it as a regular USB DAC/Amp this would be a true jack of all trades device.


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## grokit

Sold For: US $915.00
  So this is available, and expensive. How does it sound, comparisons with the CLAS please


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## swifttal

I don't know if anyone with a CLAS will be buying this thing anytime soon -
  I haven't even seen any info on how this thing pulls digits... or even if it is in fact pulling digits (i.e. is it just acting as a dock), is it apple certified, yada yada, etc, etc. A lot to consider given it's much more expensive, larger and possibly nowhere as good. A lot to gamble on for a grand - I mean, that's almost like 5 gallons of gas I could get instead


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## pekingduck

headfonia has an article on the HP-P1 

http://www.headfonia.com/the-fostex-hp-p1/


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## swifttal

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sold For: US $915.00
> So this is available, and expensive. How does it sound, comparisons with the CLAS please


 

 Here's a nice, un-biased, completely non-objective comparison from the link above
   
   
_"The fact that the Fostex HP-P1 does the same thing that the Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo obviously begs a comparison. Cypher Labs was out in the market earlier and has gained more public recognition than the Fostex. However, if I have to compare the DAC section of both products, the Fostex HP-P1 simply has the upper hand in terms of DAC quality and the technicalities in the sound. The build quality of the HP-P1 is also more mature and refined, and reminds me of a product Sony may have had produced (remember all those cool Sony MD players in the 90s?). The multiple in and out interfaces also makes the Fostex HP-P1 a more complete product with more feature than the CLAS is. Of course the $799 pricetag is a big step up from the CLAS at $579. But the inclusion of a built-in amplifier can be seen to offset some of the differences in that cost."_
   
   
  However I will say if this thing does eventually sell here for seven bills and some change, that does make it quite a bit more tempting


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## ButtUglyJeff

I wonder when there will be an announcement, of when this will be available, in North America?


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## maverickronin

I saw an ad for on here so I assumed it already was.


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## Mr Do

Battery is not a problem if your willing to carry a small USB external battery pack with it.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *swifttal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Here's a nice, un-biased, completely non-objective comparison from the link above


 






   Watch those difficult 'non's.


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## cooperpwc

On a more serious note, I really like Mike's writing on Headfonia. The key is to listen to his notes on sound signature which are almost always spot on. As to comparisons, that becomes highly subjective. For example he was quite negative about the Stepdance compared to some other amps although his description of it was accurate.
   
  I think that there is a lot be learned from his review of the Fostex although I would not personally rush to dump the Solo for it based on his conclusions. I trust his description which does not blow me away. I wondered about their choice of DAC chip and I am still wondering. I would however love to hear the Fostex myself.
   
  I also would like him to address imaging. AFAIK the Fostrex does not reclock. I wonder if it matches the Solo's instrument placement which is spectacular.
   
  Anyway it sounds like an intreresting unit. Too bad about the old-style volume pot but everything else sounds pretty good.


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## Jelle Schrijver

New Low-Cost 32-bit DAC Provides Optimal Sound Quality   High Performance 32-bit Stereo DAC is Optimized for Sound Quality 

 San Jose, CA February 3, 2010 &#8212; AKM Semiconductor today launched the AK4480, a high performance 32-bit stereo DAC. It is the newest member of the Audio4proTM product family, and the lowest cost 32-bit DAC in the market. Based on the high quality sound architecture of the AK4397 and AK4399, innovative products in the Audio4pro family, the AK4480 has an advanced architecture that enables higher quality sound for professional and high-end digital musical instruments. The AK4480 has three different digital filters: a 32-bit short delay filter which is suitable for acoustic sounds, a 32-bit sharp roll-off filter for traditional sounds, and a 32-bit slow roll-off filter for a soft sound expression. The 32-bit minimum delay and sharp roll-off filters can be controlled by pin settings in parallel control mode. 

 The 32-bit digital operation block provides full 32-bit processing for the audio interface, a perfect linear phase digital filter and an advanced delta-sigma modulator. High accuracy D/A conversion of 32-bit audio signals is performed, and an innovative design technique, a symmetrical layout for left-right channels is utilized. The fully symmetrical layout of the analog block ensures that the signal from the digital block has the shortest path possible to the analog block to avoid noise coupling, improving sound quality. The AK4480 is the first 32-bit DAC which has a digital block designed by sound quality aspects to achieve higher performance. 

 The AK4480 integrates a digital de-emphasis filter, soft mute circuit and digital attenuator. Left and right channel-independent zero detect functions are available. Sampling rates range from 30kHz to 216kHz. The analog outputs are fully differential, achieving very low THD+N of -100dB and dynamic range or SNR of 114dB, and the operating voltage is 5V. The AK4480 supports 216kHz PCM audio data, and it is suitable for professional audio equipment such as a high-end Blu-Ray Disc players, DVD-Audio players, AV receivers and digital mixers. Evaluation boards and samples are available now.
   
  Source: http://www.akm.com/press-releases.asp?prid=15
   
*It seems you can hack a third filter mode...*
   
  Still no word about the kind of amp, but looking at the spec i am suspecting a digital volume control.
   
  For European buyers check musicstore.com, it is listed for € 499,-. But if this is to cheap for ya, go to bax-shop.nl to spend an aditional € 197,-


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## cooperpwc

Quote:


jelle schrijver said:


> looking at the spec i am suspecting an digital volume control.


 

 Which spec is that?
   
  (Having read the complete instruction manual, I would be very surprised if this were the first amp with a digitally-controlled stepped attenuator to hide the feature from consumers.)


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## Somnambulist

Ah so this is out then. I was thinking about a CLAS and Arrow, but this piques my interest just as much, not just because it does both the amp and DAC functions, but it also has some options with the gain and filters. That said, the battery life looks inferior compared to the CLAS (which is obvious as it's doing the amping as well) and it's too big to warrant trying an amp if you're not happy with the amp section. Think I'll stick with the idea of CLAS + amp for the time being, although the more companies that do these portable transports, the better!


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## Jelle Schrijver

Quote: 





jelle schrijver said:


> The AK4480 integrates a digital de-emphasis filter, soft mute circuit and *digital attenuator*.


 


  Talking about the spec of the dac, not the HP-P1.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





jelle schrijver said:


> Talking about the spec of the dac, not the HP-P1.


 

 Right. That means that the DAC chip has the built-in capability to be commanded to reduce its output gain digtally. It does not seem to be implemented in the Fostex unit and that is probably a good thing. Digital attenuation at the DAC level (as opposed to a digitally controlled _analogue _stepped attenuator as found on an increasing number of portable amps) means that all those 1's and 0's are being recalculated on the fly. It also would tend to reduce dynamic range. Loud DAC output is a good thing.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


somnambulist said:


> .... the more companies that do these portable transports, the better!


 

 Indeed.  Exciting times for portable audio!


----------



## ExpatinJapan

I saw one of these today for ¥60,000. Quite pricey. I didn`t ask to try it out, too scared I may like it


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

At least you have access...
  Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> I saw one of these today for ¥60,000. Quite pricey. I didn`t ask to try it out, too scared I may like it


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> On a more serious note, I really like Mike's writing on Headfonia.


 
   
  I beg to differ. Anyone, regardless of their ethnicity, who continues to use 'gear*s*' to denote multiple components just annoys me - throw in the use of terms like 'sizzly' (aaarrgghhhh !) and Mike really grinds _my_ *gears* ! Not denying his obvious passion, and I appreciate the effort he puts into his reviews, but in terms of writing style, lets just say he needed to stay awake in those English Lit. classes the rest of us skipped.


----------



## cooperpwc

Ah, I was referring not to the fine literary points - just to his passion for assessing the gear. (No "s"!)

This is the monkeyweb. My expectations for literary prowess unfortunately are rather low.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

I tried the Fostex  out in store today (and the fiio E7 too), it was nice and all, but I (thankfully $$$$) wasn`t wowed about it, I did expect more.
  It did have clear sound, but not the wow factor that I would pay that much for.


----------



## cooperpwc

Maybe you need to buy it and use it for a while to get that Wow factor.
   
  Take one for the team!


----------



## ExpatinJapan

I`d like to, I`m sure it would get better, sooo sure. but I don`t think my ears are golden enough to get the most out of it, I was tempted though....sooo tempted


----------



## cooperpwc

I'm a bit tempted too but fortunately no easy way to give in to temptation. I really want to compare this to the Solo + Pico Slim combo. Hopefully when I am in Hong Kong next month, one of the headphone stores will have it.


----------



## Somnambulist

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> I tried the Fostex  out in store today (and the fiio E7 too), it was nice and all, but I (thankfully $$$$) wasn`t wowed about it, I did expect more.
> It did have clear sound, but not the wow factor that I would pay that much for.


 


  I think the thing for me is, that this device locks you into a certain sound. At least with the CLAS, you have the option to use any amp you wish in order to find what's golden for your ears, or even to just use it as a transport and use your own DAC/amp (although that's kinda paying a massive premium just to get a digital signal out). Still live in hope that we'll see a singular portable transport, like an iStreamer that can be strapped to the back of an iPod.


----------



## pekingduck

Nuforce is working on a transport+dac+amp device, but I am not sure if it's gonna be portable...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/551043/new-nuforce-iduh-june-2011
  
  Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> I think the thing for me is, that this device locks you into a certain sound. At least with the CLAS, you have the option to use any amp you wish in order to find what's golden for your ears, or even to just use it as a transport and use your own DAC/amp (although that's kinda paying a massive premium just to get a digital signal out). Still live in hope that we'll see a singular portable transport, like an iStreamer that can be strapped to the back of an iPod.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

something like this? (but better quality?)
   
http://www.ifuzen.jp/
   
   
http://gadgetsteria.com/2011/03/15/review-i-fuzen-case-external-battery-pack-and-headphone-amp-for-iphone-4/


----------



## Somnambulist

YES! A case like the Juice Pack/Juice Pack Air with a digital out is exactly what I'm thinking of. If per Apple restrictions you couldn't use the charging part whilst using the digital out, so be it; I'd just try and conserve battery life by turning off all non-essential features like wifi, auto-brightness, e.t.c.


----------



## triodesteve

>Still live in hope that we'll see a singular portable transport, like an iStreamer that can be strapped to the back of an iPod.
   
  I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am surprised that no one has been modifying the istreamer for sort of a hacked up CLAS.
  It's not that big, it can be run off of a battery. In fact, there is a lot of empty space inside that case...maybe its possible to mount a battery inside?
  I bought one to play with but have just been too busy.


----------



## Somnambulist

Be interested to see what you come up with. I had a feeling the iStreamer wouldn't actually have much kit inside and the casing would be more 'for show'. I know from the CLAS thread that there are certain requirements for something to be approved by Apple when it comes to doing the decoding thing and being 'certified for ixxx', I don't what they are though.


----------



## chowyeung

Does HP-P1 support iPad1 or iPad2 ?


----------



## estreeter

http://www.headfonia.com/the-fostex-hp-p1/
   
  I'm not going to quote from Mike's article at Headfonia, but he seems to be saying this:
   
  - the DAC in the HP-P1 is appreciably better than the DAC in the CLAS
  - the amp in the HP-P1 is very good, even used from the analog input
  - $799 isnt cheap, but its not a fortune for a *game changer*
   
  I know - lies, damned lies and hype - but it might be the very device that some here have been bleating about : a Solo without the need for an external amp. Just plug your 240GB Classic in one end and your phones in the other. Theoretically, it doesnt get any better.
   
  So there you have it - now you just need to find 800 bucks and take a 2 week vacation from work to listen to the complete works of everyone. I look forward to hearing those listening impressions.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

I would buy it If it was cheaper. i tried one instore in  Tokyo for a short time .


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> I would buy it If it was cheaper. i tried one instore in  Tokyo for a short time .


 


  Hey, I dont have a trust fund either, but lets put this in perspective - many audiophiles would pay more than this for a good CD transport. Mains power, completely tied to the grid, and they wouldnt even have a DAC, much less an amp. Vibration, jitter - you name it - all the stuff that has haunted the obsessive audiophile for decades and Fostex can remove all of that and give you something you can use in the library. If it matches the hype, this is it, my friend, this is the portable device that people have been dreaming of since the day Wadia released their first transport for the iDevice.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Whilst all that is true, smaller and cheaper would make the dream complete.
  I was tempted to buy it - but wasn`t wowed overall by the sound. If it was $200-300 and a more portable size I would have picked it up for sure.
  Will you be buying it estreeter?
   
  I do find it interesting that the Fiio E11 thread is more active than this one. But then again entry level, affordable and accessible will often triumph over niche, expensive and higher quality.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> Whilst all that is true, smaller and cheaper would make the dream complete.
> I was tempted to buy it - but wasn`t wowed overall by the sound. If it was $200-300 and a more portable size I would have picked it up for sure.
> Will you be buying it estreeter?
> 
> I do find it interesting that the Fiio E11 thread is more active than this one. But then again entry level, affordable and accessible will often triumph over niche, expensive and higher quality.


 


  Of course the E11 thread is more active, and for the same reason that the uDAC threads were far more active than anything on the Leben or higher-end Woo amps. Personally, I've spent close to a thousand dollars on audio in the last month or so - I wont be buying the HP-P1 or anything else until that 'heals up'


----------



## Armaegis

Two weeks? It would take me three months to go through my music if I played it 24/7.


----------



## estreeter

Armaegis, I doubt that ANY employer could spare someone like you for 3 full months.


----------



## estreeter

Fan-freakin-tastic - I spend over $500 on a couple of FOTM portables, and this mob have the HP-P1 for less than 710 AUD shipped to Oz. Excuse me while I find a chair and a stout branch.  
   
  http://en.item.rakuten.com/audio-s/hpp1/


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> http://www.headfonia.com/the-fostex-hp-p1/
> 
> I'm not going to quote from Mike's article at Headfonia, but he seems to be saying this:
> 
> ...


 

 Really this isn't news. We were just talking about this exact review in this thread a few pages back. In fact, you were complaining about Mike's writing.
   
  Anyway AFAIK the only person on here that has heard the HP-P1 is ExpatinJapan and he wasn't too impressed. I also want him to buy it and give it a better chance - with his money, not mine.  
   
  Tempted as I am, I probably wouldn't buy the HP-1 because of the old-style analogue volume pot. With sensitive IEMs in this day and age, there are better options available. But for those primarily using full-size headphones, it might be a different story.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


cooperpwc said:


> Tempted as I am, I probably wouldn't buy the HP-1 because of the old-style analogue volume pot. With sensitive IEMs in this day and age, there are better options available. But for those primarily using full-size headphones, it might be a different story.


 

 Considering that it has 3 gain levels (admittedly unspecified) and the amp isn't very strong (80mW/channel) I don't think the pot should be much of a problem.


----------



## cooperpwc

maverickronin, it realy depends on the individual. I now demand, as a minimum standard, perfectly balanced sound at very low volumes - even lower than what I normally use. Okay, so I am a control freak spoiled by perfection. Digitally-controlled discreet stepped attenuators rock!  I won't buy anything else for IEMs. YMMV


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Anyway AFAIK the only person on here that has heard the HP-P1 is ExpatinJapan and he wasn't too impressed. I also want him to buy it and give it a better chance - with his money, not mine.


 
  Me too, but I must resist. 
   
  I don`t think I possess golden ears, so I worry about spending the money.
  Most of my music is lossless, though a portion is sub par mp3, I would have to have mainly quality recordings to get the most out of it. Which would mean overhauling my music library.
  When I BRIEFLY tested it I did use lossless files of course.
   
  *Please don`t take my short listen as a qualified review everyone.
  -When I tested it I swapped around with my ibasso T3/LOD, CMoy Royal amp, an instore fiio E7 and of course the Fostex. 
  -I did enjoy it, there was nothing `wrong` with it, it was clean, and transparent...but admittedly I am not sure what I should be looking for also.
   
  *I would of course like to spend a bit more time with it.


----------



## cooperpwc

You should.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Take one for the team!


----------



## DanBa

"The Fostex HP-P1 is very good.  It's still very new for me (just started using it a couple of days ago), so I haven't done much in terms of direct comparisons to the Cyper Labs Algorhythm Solo (paired up with various amps).  I'm curious to know how the Fostex HP-P1 will compare to the Solo, when used like the Solo, to feed other headphone amps from its line out (as opposed to using the Fostex's built-in amp).  Again, I haven't gotten to that yet.  Still, though, I've used it enough to know it's very good when directly driving the DT 1350 and the HD 25-1 II (haven't tried any IEMs with it yet)." [Jude]
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/135#post_7490978


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Another one a eBay, same seller...
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/FOSTEX-HP-P1-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-iPOD-iPhone-/390314276263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae08b35a7


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Really this isn't news. We were just talking about this exact review in this thread a few pages back. In fact, you were complaining about Mike's writing.


 
   
  And I still am - just having a gentle dig at the folk who bleat about the fact that the Solo isnt *quite* what they want, then start shrieking when an all-in-one comes along but costs more money. I like the way these guys are already undercutting the RRP:
   
  http://en.item.rakuten.com/audio-s/hpp1/
   
  687 AUD + 28 shipping. Suddenly its not so far away from the all-up cost of the Solo.


----------



## Anaxilus

I really want to hear this AKM DAC implementation but the thought of using an iTouch is, well.....
   
  C'mon Jude!  Let's have it already.  CLAS v. Fostex.  Go!  Put that 30khz hearing to some good use.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I really want to hear this AKM DAC implementation but the thought of using an iTouch is, well.....
> 
> C'mon Jude!  Let's have it already.  CLAS v. Fostex.  Go!  Put that 30khz hearing to some good use.


 

 That might be a rather large detriment to DAC reviewing.  You'll likely hear the noise shaping push all the junk up into the ultrasonic where most other people can't hear it.


----------



## Yukster

I listened to the HP-P1 for about 5 minutes a few days ago.  It was a demo unit at Yodobashi camera in Shinjuku.  The price was 65,000 JPY.  All I had was a 6G Nano and my ATH-CK100.  All I can say is that when I listened to songs out of the HP-P1, the soundstage was incredible.  Other impressions: everything sounded clearer and crisper than compared to the headphone out, and there was no strange coloration to the sound.  The track I was listening to was encoded with Apple Lossless.
   
  Regarding the price: If I was to buy it, I would wait a few months, when the online retailers start to slash prices.  I am guessing that it would be around the 49,000 JPY mark by the fall.  Just for comparison, Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo would cost 65,000 JPY in Japan, so the Fostex isn't that overpriced.


----------



## velvet undergrd

Just to bump up the thread, here's a choppy video of the HP-P1 in action. Wish i could understand what they were saying!
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12748595


----------



## zzffnn

.


----------



## cooperpwc

I cannot believe that no one has bought one of these! Come on, guys, someone has to take one for the team...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I looked for it in HK last month but didn't see it at Kingsound or Mingos (yet).


----------



## Yitaro

Just placed an order for mine.  Should be here next week.  If anyone is interested, I placed my order through Moog Audio website here in Canada for $719 CAD with free shipping.  This is the lowest price on the HP-P1 I've seen.
  Will post some impressions once I receive it.


----------



## cooperpwc

Nice catch on Moog Audio, Yitaro. Hmmm... those guys are on Queen Street in Toronto. Well, if I don't see it in HK, I will look for it next time I go back to TO.
   
  Excitng that you are getting this! Please do post pics, impresssions.


----------



## Somnambulist

Cool look forward to reading your impressions.


----------



## Edward Ng

Seven hundred and twenty Canadian Dollars is a dear ~$750US, BEFORE shipping and international tariffs, which is pretty rough, so I'm checking around with American retailers to see if anyone can source one for me at a better price.  If I can find it for somewhere south of $700, I'll likely spring for one.  I have a query in with Sweetwater, who I noticed carries Fostex products (although no HP-P1 listed on their web site).  If they don't work out, I'll keep digging around.
   
  -Ed


----------



## Yitaro

Just received an email from Moog Audio.  The Fostex HP-P1's are back ordered and  won't be receiving mine till the end of July. 
  Been checking the online store in Japan and it seems that majority of them are out of stock.  I guess the demands are there even at the asking price.
  Now could someone with the HP-P1 please post your impressions. 
  Been listening to my brother's Asgard and it's very impressive.  Its making me question my $720 purchase.  Will the HP-P1 be worth the price or would money be better spent on a nice desktop amp/dac combo.


----------



## cooperpwc

Yitaro, you are thinking too much!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Those are legitimate questions. HP-P1 sounds exciting to me but you have to decide what you want. I have not heard it and few on here have.


----------



## Armaegis

The price seems steep, but you do get an amp with it. The CLAS+amp would be bigger and more expensive I think.


----------



## qusp

there is no reason you cant team the fostex with a high quality home amp for home use, the transport and DAC sections sound like they are up to snuff and if you are using cans that could use more juice then all you need is an amp. if you dont need a portable unit, then sure dont buy a portable unit, but that does not reflect on the fostex. the HP-P1 is aimed at producing high quality *portable* audio; but it should integrate well with a home unit if need be.
   
  I actually think that if the sound matches the spec and potential of the design this is pretty good value for what you get. looks nice too and is more practical than CLAS imo. i have asked around a few known fostex retailers here to see if i can get a demo. i have had very good experiences with fostex digital recording/mastering gear in the past and have no doubt it sounds very good.
   
  I do however worry a little about whether they have tuned the amp section for use with iems; any good modern design should have low output impedance, but unfortunately it doesnt seem to always pan out that way in the marketplace. Fostex have a background in making studio gear, but their experience may well work against them; as most headphones used for studio monitors are not as sensitive as most customs


----------



## Yitaro

I think your right Cooperpwc.  Its 1 a.m. and my mind is all over the place.
  I'm looking for a portable rig that will come close to the desktop set up. Willing to sacrifice 5% of SQ for the sake of portability.  Knowing myself, the desktop rig won't get use much.
  Here's to HP-P1.  Hope it's the missing piece to my puzzle.
  Back to the Asgard, man what a value for the money.   $250 for the buttery smooth, effortless, and relaxed sound with a build quality to match.  Just love this amp and will probably be in my collection soon.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





qusp said:


> I do however worry a little about whether they have tuned the amp section for use with iems; any good modern design should have low output impedance, but unfortunately it doesnt seem to always pan out that way in the marketplace. Fostex have a background in making studio gear, but their experience may well work against them; as most headphones used for studio monitors are not as sensitive as most customs


 

 Jeremy, here are the specs from the instruction manual.  (Click and then Save As to get the bigger pic.)
  I can't tell if this answers your impedance question.


 Edit: No it really doesn't. It just dictates minimum HP impedance of 16 ohms.


----------



## qusp

thanks Paul, nah i figured the output impedance would be fine for low Z headphones, it isnt always done well, but i couldnt see Fostex screwing that up, they would cop all sorts of flak from their peers for ballsing that up. the damping factor and therefor frequency response into low impedance loads is fine according to the spec, but that still doesnt really give me enough info to know whether it will hiss with iems, which are usually also very *sensitive.* it says minimum load is 16ohms, which is lower than the nominal load of just about all iems, BUT multidriver iems present a load much lower than 16 ohms at some parts of the frequency response depending on the crossover setup. the um merlin for example would cause some issues perhaps, as would most hybrids. that being said the merlin sounded pretty fantastic straight out of the d10 at the meet last weekend, as then i think it will probably be a case of suck it and see.  
   
  i like that they have given access to the digital filter settings, should be a tweakers dream. fingers crossed for an equally well executed transport only model. a stack with this, iphone v4 and my dac wouldnt be manageable for me really, but i'm still keen to hear it


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I really want to hear this AKM DAC implementation but the thought of using an iTouch is, well.....
> 
> C'mon Jude!  Let's have it already.  CLAS v. Fostex.  Go!  Put that 30khz hearing to some good use.


 
   
  I wonder why DanBa (Jude) hasn't responded to share his impressions with the Solo...i hope it's not because the outcome was negative


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





vlach said:


> I wonder why DanBa (Jude) hasn't responded to share his impressions with the Solo...i hope it's not because the outcome was negative


 

 just as point of reference, danba and jude are two different people, danba was quoting something that Jude(the administrator/owner of headfi) had said in the portable rig gallery thread.
   
  so id assume that he'll talk about it in an upcoming episode of head-fi tv,


----------



## estreeter

I had really hoped we would see something beyond Headfonia's marketing blurb by now - how the hell Mike gets his hands on kit like this so quickly is beyond me, but I need to start seeing a whole lot more critical evaluation in his reviews - other than some of Jan Meier's gear, he seems to like almost everything.
   
  This forum post is a bit of a downer:
   
  http://www.avforums.com/forums/headphones-headphone-amps/1488704-fostex-hp-p1-review.html
   
_The sound from the P1 is by no means unpleasant, but nor is it a massive step forward over the onboard headphone amp on an iPod classic. _
   
  If headphone choice is the issue with that set of impressions, its still damining IMO.


----------



## Yitaro

It was a tough decision but I've decided to cancel my order for the Fostex.  I just couldn't justify the price.  Instead, I put the money into upgrading my amp.  For me, the amp upgrade will impact the SQ of my system more than the Fostex HP-P1 will.  With that in mind, I've decided to purchase a used Woo Audio 6 with Sophia Princess for $650 delivered and now anxiously awaiting the delivery this Friday. 
  Maybe I'll be looking at the Fostex once the dust are settle and the reviews are in.  But my price point will be around $400.


----------



## cooperpwc

Yitaro, I can't' say that I blame you. We do need more positive feedback on the HP-P1; it's a lot of money to spend for speculative pleasure.
   
  ...or someone rich to take one for the team.


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I really want to hear this AKM DAC implementation but the thought of using an iTouch is, well.....
> 
> C'mon Jude!  Let's have it already.  CLAS v. Fostex.  Go!  Put that 30khz hearing to some good use.


 


 15khz in each ear. Oh wait, that's me.


----------



## Bina

I will have Fostex this afternoon, borrowed from local distributor for review.


----------



## cooperpwc

Fantastic! look forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

Quote: 





bina said:


> I will have Fostex this afternoon, borrowed from local distributor for review.


 







Bina Bina, tell us what you think of it, tks!


----------



## Bina

It is completly new unit, so some burn in will be maybe needed. Now it is just charging from iphone charger(already for more than 3 hours and still isnt fully charged). Local distributor sell them for 700 USD.


----------



## qusp

yep, keen to hear it, maybe i'll contact the Aussie distributor


----------



## Naim.F.C

Has anyone tried this thing yet? Can't seem to find a review anywhere.


----------



## Mkubota1

They're selling them for $649 (list price: $799) and they seem to be finally trickling into the U.S.  I'm getting mine this afternoon according to UPS.  So hopefully you should start seeing some impressions.  Don't hold your breath for mine though.


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> They're selling them for $649 (list price: $799) and they seem to be finally trickling into the U.S.  I'm getting mine this afternoon according to UPS.  So hopefully you should start seeing some impressions.  Don't hold your breath for mine though.


 
   
  I'm very anxious to hear your impressions as i'm also considering this product as an alternative to a CLAS + external amp. Out of curiosity, what will you be comparing it too for reference?


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





vlach said:


> I'm very anxious to hear your impressions as i'm also considering this product as an alternative to a CLAS + external amp. Out of curiosity, what will you be comparing it too for reference?


 

 What did I just say?  (_"Don't hold your breath..."_)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  j/k!!!
   
  I would probably compare it to my iQube and E7.  I just got the iQube, so I'm actually still getting familiar with its sound.  But I think I have a pretty good feel for it.  BIG DISCLAIMER:  Not to push an agenda- just to let you know what my experiences have been so we're on the same page:  So far from what I've heard, the differences between amps and even the iPod headphone outs on IEMs is fairly small to me.  Sometimes I can A/B them reliably- sometimes not.  I doubt I'd be able to pick one out on its own (reliably).  IEMs and headphones are a different story (for me).  Anyway, hopefully I'll try to share some quick thoughts shortly! 
   
  It did arrive this morning and I played with it a bit- just to make sure it wasn't DOA or anything.  So far, I LOVE the build quality!  It seems to recognize and sync with the iPod (Touch 4G) quick enough for me not to notice.  The volume knob is smooth and much easier to turn than on the iQube, which I feel is a bit stiff.  But that's probably good for a portable.


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





mkubota1 said:


> What did I just say?  (_"Don't hold your breath..."_)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The suspense is killing me


----------



## ExpatinJapan

When you do tell us our thoughts, making a new review thread would be nice and clean. We await your impressions.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> When you do tell us our thoughts, making a new review thread would be nice and clean. We await your impressions.


 

 And it would be useful if the thread title contains the name of the product (Fostex HP-P1).


----------



## Mkubota1

As you wish:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566026/fostex-hp-p1-portable-amplifier-and-dac-for-ipod-iphone-short-review-and-impressions-thread#post_7660496


----------



## daj523

Has anyone been able to compare the stock Fostex LOD to USB cable against ALO or Moon Audio Silver Dragons?


----------



## Edward Ng

I have an ALO Cryo 18 Silver LOD cable, but it's not really comparable because that's an analog LOD cable whereas the HP-P1 utilizes a USB docking cable.  This would not be an apples to apples comparison because one setup relies on the iDevice's built-in DAC whereas the second setup utilizes the HP-P1's 32-bit Wolfson DAC.
   
  -Ed


----------

