# Mark Levinson No.383



## milkpowder

Anyone have any experience with this integrated amp? I'm looking to use this with Vantage (ML), Electra 1027Be (F.JMLabs), D38 (ProAc), 3.6 (Magnepan) or Cremona (Sonus Faber) speakers. Is it powerful enough? Does anyone have other suggestions. I also have my eyes on some Naim gear, namely the NAP250/NAP282 and some PS Audio stuff. I don't know whether an integrated amp made by a very well regarded manufacturer such as Mark Levinson will be able to match individual pre/power amp combos from other manufacturers.

 Also, what do people usually drive Martin Logans with? What about Sonus Faber speakers?

 Thanks a lot. Please feel free to make other suggestions.


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## Joey_V

For my Martin Logan Summits, I use a Rotel RB1070 amplifier.... soon to be, RB1090 amplifier. They sound absolutely beautiful! I also had the Vantages running on this exact setup but I ended up returning them and going for some used local Summits not too long ago.... best move ever!

 I say, the Levinson 383 is a solid solid integrated - I was looking at that exact one, but I think I'll stick to Rotel. If the ROtel 1070 can power the ML, then the 383 will be more than enough.

 Anyway, good luck with your speakers - and I will tell you that I havent heard anything better than my Summits without getting extremely expensive. The BW802D may deserve some special attention and the Wilson Sophia..... other than that, I havent heard anything in their league so far.

 I'm telling you this because I think the Vantage offers an excellent platform. Cheap but superb! If you can afford the Summits though.... go for it. Even if you have to go used. They are better in every way... especially the bass and midbass coherency, not to mention the overall balance is improved top to bottom.


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## milkpowder

Thanks for your reply. How much do the Summits go for? I'm planning to audition some ML as I've never heard them before. My budget is around $9-10k max for speakers. I'm not familiar with Rotel gear, but I'll have a look. I still can't figure out whether to go integrated amp or pre/power separates... The No.383 is relatively new and also costs quite a bit for an integrated amp: ~$6k? Whereas a good pre/power combo will be around $7-8k and might sound a lot better... Anyone know anything about Parasound JC1s? They seem awfully cheap for 400W monoblocks.


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## tom hankins

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* 
_Thanks for your reply. How much do the Summits go for? I'm planning to audition some ML as I've never heard them before. My budget is around $9-10k max for speakers. I'm not familiar with Rotel gear, but I'll have a look. I still can't figure out whether to go integrated amp or pre/power separates... The No.383 is relatively new and also costs quite a bit for an integrated amp: ~$6k? Whereas a good pre/power combo will be around $7-8k and might sound a lot better... Anyone know anything about Parasound JC1s? They seem awfully cheap for 400W monoblocks._

 

I use the JC-1 monoblocks with the BAT VK-31se preamp and the amps are wonderful. The best SS amps I've heard. I Like them better than the Krell, Ayre, Pass labs, and Classe amps I auditioned. Lots of power with a smooth but very detailed presentation. I got mine new for around $6.5K with tax. They may have gone up to $7K a pr. now though. I have had good results with the following preamps. AR LS25MKII, BAT, Aesthetix, and pre in my Audio Aero. 
 The down side is they take a long time to burn in. (although good out of the box) And they run pretty warm in the high bias setting. They also need lots of juice from the wall. All of these are minor when you consider how great they sound and that they can drive pretty much any speaker made with ease. 
 Even with the cost of my preamp used the total was over $10K for the amp/preamp combo. Hope this helps some. I love the amps and they will be in my system for a long time.


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## Joey_V

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* 
_Thanks for your reply. How much do the Summits go for? I'm planning to audition some ML as I've never heard them before. My budget is around $9-10k max for speakers. I'm not familiar with Rotel gear, but I'll have a look. I still can't figure out whether to go integrated amp or pre/power separates... The No.383 is relatively new and also costs quite a bit for an integrated amp: ~$6k? Whereas a good pre/power combo will be around $7-8k and might sound a lot better... Anyone know anything about Parasound JC1s? They seem awfully cheap for 400W monoblocks._

 

Always go used...

 I was about to jump on the 383 (used on audiogon.com) for $3500.

 The Summits that I bought were between the $7K and $8K range on audiogon as well.... upgrade aluminum panels with natural cherry veneer. $11K brand new retail (and lets not forget that ML doesnt allow their dealers to lower the price, it's price protected). 

 So, if you go Summits with the 383 (both used), you'll be around the $10-11K mark for both. 

 Summits alone will cost you $10K + 1K for upgrade veneer + 1K for upgrade aluminum panel... etc...

 I would also look at Plinius amps... those are awesome especially with the Vantage/Summits.

 Other amps to look at are Pass Labs X350.


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## milkpowder

My rig will be in HK, so it will be a hastle to have someone ship heavy gear all the way from the US or Canada or what-not. Also, I'm a little skeptical about buying used hifi. I don't mind buying headphone stuff used because the sums of money involved are relatively small compared to home hifi. There were a pair of Sonus Faber Amati Homage in a Hong Kong hifi shop going for $14k used when they are $27k new! I can't really imagine how used stuff could be almost half the price! That to me is a little dodgy...

 Anyway, thanks for all your input. I have heard really good things about both the 383 and the JC1 through different sources. Sad to say, the JC1 are extremely difficult to find in Hong Kong. I might have to settle for other brands in the end... I'm going off to the Focal JM.Labs (Electra 1027Be) and Martin Logan (mainly Vantage, but also a Summit if I can arrange it) dealers tomorrow to try some speakers and also to see what they drive their speakers with.


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## mattigol

I don't want to derail the thread but since I am eyeing the ML Vantage, how much power should a proper amp for these possess? They drive their woofers on their own, right? Do stats reflect the sonic characterics of the attached amp rather well or not so? I was hoping I could buy a Vantage but stick to conservative Class A amping like a rather warm Sugden A21SE that I know (kind of from my A21a), an ASR Emitter or possibly a PS Audio GCC-100 or 250, depending on synergy. Please let me know your thoughts...


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## milkpowder

I just went and auditioned the No.383 (100W). The dealer is selling them for $8.1k w/ further discounts. I was using the G08's ($4.2k) balanced output as a source. The only speakers they had that were ready to be used were some Ariel Acoustics Model 7 ($6.2k), which were brilliant. I made comparisons to some new integrated amp by French maker Mimetism 15.2 (180W, $6.4k). Overall, I thought that the No.383 was not as good as the Mimetism 15.2. The latter model sounded so at ease and drove the Model 7 better. I thought the Mimetism 15.2 had a massive soundstage and its laid back nature was very pleasant indeed. 
 The No.383 was more upfront and had a more powerful bass. Soundstage was equally vast. I could also sense that the No.383 had more detail and punch to its sound. The A.A. Model 7 + 383 + G08 combo was a little too strong for soft voice recordings such as Norah Jones but better for energetic recordings such as large orchestral speakers.

 Right now, I'm liking the 15.2 more, but that's only after an hour of auditioning. I shall hope to be able to test the following combinations in the near future:
 Sonus Faber Cremona + Mark Levinson No.383
 Aerial Acoustics Model 7 + Meridian G02 + Meridian G57 + Meridian G08
 ProAc D38 + Naim CDX2 + Naim NAP250 + Naim NAC282 + Naim HiCap
 plus Martin Logan Vantage and Focal JM.Labs Electra 1027 Be


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## milkpowder

And the biggest disappointment of today's auditioning was

 [size=medium]the Marten Design Coltrane!![/size]

 They were selling for $46k at their dealership and guess what, I was _not_ happy with them at all! They probably used really crap amps to power them or something, but I really wasn't impressed. In fact, when I heard the price tag, I almost feinted. I thought they were $20k speakers instead of $46k! Sigh...

 Ok, to be fair, they weren't really fully burned in yet (2 months use only) and neither were the interconnects (2 days old!). The Esoteric X-03 CDP definitely wasn't to blame though. The amps were some small brick-sized monoblock German tube amps (150W each) that didn't look expensive at all (could be to blame). The preamp I didn't really pay attention, though they looked very pro, with completely separate and individually boxed left and right volume control and separate PS for both channels.

 The salesman was confident that it was due to the relatively newness of the components and urged me to come back and listen again a few months from now. The problem is, I do think that these speakers have a lot to offer from all the reviews I've read, but they are far too expensive for me!


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## milkpowder

One more thing:

 What are the prices of Mark Levinson's "entry-level" preamps and amps? What are the model names? Thanks


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## GoRedwings19

are you talking about the 32, 320, , 380 pre-amps?

 then there's the older series power amps with the prefix 20.x then there's the 3xx series and the latest is the 4xx series power amps.

 They match well with stuff like wilsons, B&w etc. More of a synergy thing rather than individual component merits.

 The ML's are considered on the darkish side compared to other manufacturers. They are also buttoned down power wise compared to the likes of Pass labs, krell etc.

 I have put my current 2 ch setup on hold for the time being. There's so many choices and vary opions so taking my time, doing reading up and if possible hearing the components in question.

 Power amp wise I am looking at a Jeff Rowland amp, but if a Dartzeel amp came up and at relative decent price then I would probably try that out first over the JR. Need to start saving those pennies.


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## milkpowder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GoRedwings19* 
_are you talking about the 32, 320, , 380 pre-amps?

 then there's the older series power amps with the prefix 20.x then there's the 3xx series and the latest is the 4xx series power amps.

 They match well with stuff like wilsons, B&w etc. More of a synergy thing rather than individual component merits.

 The ML's are considered on the darkish side compared to other manufacturers. They are also buttoned down power wise compared to the likes of Pass labs, krell etc.

 I have put my current 2 ch setup on hold for the time being. There's so many choices and vary opions so taking my time, doing reading up and if possible hearing the components in question.

 Power amp wise I am looking at a Jeff Rowland amp, but if a Dartzeel amp came up and at relative decent price then I would probably try that out first over the JR. Need to start saving those pennies._

 

Thanks a lot. 

 I'll take a look at the ML 320 and 431 amps. They are the most I can afford because in HK, ML cost quite a bit more than list price.


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## GoRedwings19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* 
_Thanks a lot. 

 I'll take a look at the ML 320 and 431 amps. They are the most I can afford because in HK, ML cost quite a bit more than list price._

 


 The best place for ML stuff is usually singapore or malaysia. a)they use 240v which is the same as most of HK b)They have used, which will save you pennies.

 Best place to try if ML is your thing is audiogon.

 I am not sure if ML+Sonus Faber would make a great combo. It would make a decent one but Sonus fabers are being known for being refined, warm sounding. Great for classical, opera etc. But they might lack the punch for Rock, dance etc.

 The ML is Dark but fairly detailed but it's presented in a easy going manner. REad up in the discussion forums. A lot of ML owners prefer the older stuff then compared to the new stuff. The main reason is that the current 4xx series is considered somewhat sterile sounding to the older 3xx series although the 4xx series have more power.

 Audition with your ears. THere are a few shops on Hong Kong Island itself which may have the ML stuff. There is a shop i goto when on holiday located in Causeway bay. When you come out of the subway there is a shopping center. Near the exit there is audio shop which you go down a flight of stairs. They might have on there.

 If then try the shopping center in Central. I once accidentally found it. It's hidden behind all the clothes shops and there is a small audio shop.

 But inside they have the liked of Krell, B&W's nautilus range etc. They might have some stuff there that might interest you.

 Good luck with your search.


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## rocktboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* 
_And the biggest disappointment of today's auditioning was

 [size=medium]the Marten Design Coltrane!![/size]

 They were selling for $46k at their dealership and guess what, I was not happy with them at all! They probably used really crap amps to power them or something, but I really wasn't impressed. In fact, when I heard the price tag, I almost feinted. I thought they were $20k speakers instead of $46k! Sigh...

 Ok, to be fair, they weren't really fully burned in yet (2 months use only) and neither were the interconnects (2 days old!). The Esoteric X-03 CDP definitely wasn't to blame though. The amps were some small brick-sized monoblock German tube amps (150W each) that didn't look expensive at all (could be to blame). The preamp I didn't really pay attention, though they looked very pro, with completely separate and individually boxed left and right volume control and separate PS for both channels.

 The salesman was confident that it was due to the relatively newness of the components and urged me to come back and listen again a few months from now. The problem is, I do think that these speakers have a lot to offer from all the reviews I've read, but they are far too expensive for me!_

 



 I heard the Marten Design Coltrane for 2 years in a row at the rocky mountain audiofest. it's driven by either 1. Edge NL Reference 800w/ch, usd$120k or 2. audio note Kegon, a 300b set for usd$50k. source is emmlabs and some vinyl setup that i didn't remeber or care for. speaker wire is some mega $$$ stuff, the same as coltrane's internal wires. on paper you would think it might be a contender for best in show but i was totally NOT blown away by the sound. it sounded very ordinary...for the $$ it is simply NOT worth it. 

 do not trust any reviews especially magazine reviews. keep an open mind and let your own ears be the judge!


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## milkpowder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocktboy* 
_I heard the Marten Design Coltrane for 2 years in a row at the rocky mountain audiofest. it's driven by either 1. Edge NL Reference 800w/ch, usd$120k or 2. audio note Kegon, a 300b set for usd$50k. source is emmlabs and some vinyl setup that i didn't remeber or care for. speaker wire is some mega $$$ stuff, the same as coltrane's internal wires. on paper you would think it might be a contender for best in show but i was totally NOT blown away by the sound. it sounded very ordinary...for the $$ it is simply NOT worth it. 

 do not trust any reviews especially magazine reviews. keep an open mind and let your own ears be the judge!_

 

That's some pretty heavy duty, high-dollar equipment. Still, they don't sound that good. Please make no mistake, I thought they sounded pretty good, but $46k? Maybe when I've got more cash. I've heard $20k *rigs* that sound better.


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## mattigol

As this thread appears to be cooling off quite a bit and the original question sort of answered, I'd like to repeat my question

 A) the amping requirements for the ML Vantage

 B) your assessment of how far some 40 Class A watt can take me with fullsize speakers of medium efficiency (Sugden A21 SE, Lavardin IS Ref or IT, other integrateds in the 3-4k range)

 and would like to add this one:

 C) would like to know what some of you high rollers think of Chinese tank-like amps like a Korsun V8i or Zell ZD-200 Mk II. 

 Cheers.


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