# FiiO Q5, Flagship DAC/Amp, an Dual DAC, USB/Optical/Coaxial/Line in, share the same amp module with X7.



## JamesFiiO

We are developing a new DAC/AMP , it is our flagship DAC/AMP and there are some new features will be added as below, as usual, waiting for your feedback so we can make the best for your guys.
  
 1, First Dual DAC in our line ups. the DAC has not decided yet, maybe dual 1792A or ESS9018K2M or ESS9018 but we are worry about the power consume.  
  
updated: we almost decided that we will use 2 AKM4490 DAC chips.
  
 2, It is the first DAC/AMP which supports amp module, which means you can change the amp section by yourself, btw, the amp module share the same with our X7.
  
 3, Supports DSD128, 384K/32B. 
  
updated: should be XMOS solution.
  
 4, The volume pots is Analog, but the volume is done by PGA2311, which is a analog volume IC but the control is digital, so we can get the best SQ, with best L/R balance and without any noise.
  
 5, Maybe supports DLNA and airplay which means it is includes a wifi receiver. I think it is the first portable amp with WIFI input. 
  
updated: we have some problem about the power consume issues so it may not implemented in Q5.
  
 6, it can supports balanced output , or big cans, IEM, or depened on what kind of amp module installed.
  
 7, Slim design as usual. 
  
 8, New, maybe support APT-X bluetooth receiver
  
 9, supports coaxial/optical/line in /USB in/bluetooth.
  
 initial rendering. 
  

  
 final design.


----------



## HotIce

A few thoughts.
I would drop the digital volume circuitry, and lessen the silicon the signal will have to go through. A normal analog control with good quality potenziometer is simpler and better IMO.
For swapping amp module, you mean the whole thing, right? Not simply the OP-amps?
I personally like the current E12 OP-amp plus buffer circuitry, with the buffer within the feedback loop.
Are you planning to still run the amp rails at +/-11.2V? More? Less?
Is balanced vs. single ended, governed by an amp module switch, or by simply a device on/off switch?
IMO DLNA is going to be bad mojo for battery, and for the many people which will plug this into iOS or Android devices, you can already do that.
I'd save $$ and PCB space, to invest it more where it matters (sound and DAC quality).


----------



## JamesFiiO

hotice said:


> A few thoughts.
> I would drop the digital volume circuitry, and lessen the silicon the signal will have to go through. A normal analog control with good quality potenziometer is simpler and better IMO.
> For swapping amp module, you mean the whole thing, right? Not simply the OP-amps?
> I personally like the current E12 OP-amp plus buffer circuitry, with the buffer within the feedback loop.
> ...


 
  
 1, Can't find any high quality potentiomer with meets the size. 
  
 2, Yes, 
  
 3, The amp power supply is depended on the module.
  
 4, When you connnected a balanced module them you get balanced output. 
  
 5, We have E18 which not always worked for all smartphone , and of course we will only add the wifi when we can control the power.


----------



## DrKC

I'd skip the whole DLNA Wi-Fi thing.  Unless you're going to add a display to it, leave that to the DAP.  The interface would be a nightmare unless you just go iPhone centric or another singular source.  That would limit your market although the iphone would be a big one.


----------



## Vartan

Dual ESS9018 will be nice!


----------



## HotIce

Will it be able to decode iOS encrypted audio coming off lightning cables (like the E5 does)?


----------



## KT66

Don't worry about the power consumption, put the best DAC in possible, 
 Sound Quality must be priority number one.


----------



## Dobrescu George

What is the target price for it?
  
 Also, if it is a DAC/AMP, it means that I will be able to use it with my Fiio x5, using X5 as a transport, so from coaux out of x5 to Q5?


----------



## Zxzxxcxc

In my opinion Q5 should have double 9018K2M or single 9018. As you said before "ESS9018 already includes 8 channels DAC so it does not need 2 DAC chips".  

 In my opinion more important is proper dac implementation and software than the dac itself. I'm not an expert but for me investing in better and better (or maybe in 2x) dacs is like listening to music in DSD. 
 For me differences between flac and DSD are unhearable (and i can't find in web any blind test confirming differences) and everything is about how well the music is recorded/mastered.
 The same with DACs - little difference between next generation or double dac, big difference between various implementations/softs.

 James, you are doing really good job releasing products with great price/quality ratio. Don't slow down, but it's no need to go for marketing spec/features like those as I metioned before.

 No offence, It's just my point of view and my listening experiences.


----------



## warrior1975

Give me the best of everything with some magic fiio pixie dust and I'm happy!! Looking forward to this device for sure.


----------



## x RELIC x

Take a look at the Cayin N6 with dual 1792A DACs. Very good sound from Line Out with the N6. Then again ESS9018 is good too. 

I'd be interested if you follow a current mode amplification or focus on the voltage more so than just the output power.


----------



## mosshorn

Color me interested.


----------



## howdy

I think you should go with a dual Wolfson DAC. Everything is Sabre now and Wolfson is such as smooth sounding DAC with the right implementation!


----------



## nmatheis

howdy said:


> I think you should go with a dual Wolfson DAC. Everything is Sabre now and Wolfson is such as smooth sounding DAC with the right implementation!




Might be a good differentiating point. It took iBasso quite awhile to get the DX90 to the point where I like it almost as much as my X5.


----------



## x RELIC x

I honestly don't like the 'typical' Wolfson sound anymore after hearing more refinement, that was so X3/e17. If implemented right Sabre can sound incredible, but you need to know your way around the capabilities. So can Burr Brown and Cirrus. Either way, my interest lies in the amp section.


----------



## mochill

ohh this is interesting


----------



## Koolpep

Geeez,

Very nice amp indeed. Go ofr it @JamesFiiO

BB (like iDSD micro) or ESS DAC (like 901s) is great, both can deliver astounding sound quality, I have the iDSD micro and boy does the dual BurrBrown wonders in it. However it's the implementation that counts. At one stage we pitted 4 different AKM Inside DACs against each other and they couldn't have sounded more different. 

Or you could consider the AK4490 from AKM as in the new Astell & Kern AK380? 

I like the Hifiman-esque amp boards a lot....

Cheers,
K


----------



## AnakChan

[Mod hat on]
 Subscribers, please hit on the "Subscribe" star icon rather than reply "Subbed" or popcorn icon.
 [Mod hat off]
  
@JamesFiiO, why are you concerned about power for the ESS9018K2M? I thought that was designed for low power use?


----------



## x RELIC x

I would think he means dual 2ch k2m's or single 8ch ess9018. Which is better for power? There was a lot of discussion in the X7 thread about it quite a while ago. Then again I'd also like to know JamesFiiO's reply to this.


----------



## Shawn71

Like the combo of both world- analog and digital vol controller for precise control.....Hope there will be display if there's wifi.
  
@JamesFiiO: how about adding AKM / BB DACs?


----------



## dacari

I'd like to see a good gain control with 3 gain positions or at least the LOW gain with 0db, otherwise another amp/DAC barely usable with iems.


----------



## x RELIC x

dacari said:


> I'd like to see a good gain control with 3 gain positions or at least the LOW gain with 0db, otherwise another amp/DAC barely usable with iems.




Sharing plug and play amp modules with the X7 will have three choices........ an IEM amp module, a high powered amp module (500mW), and a more powerful balanced (RSA) amp module.


This is the amp module (circled).




And on the X7.


----------



## JamesFiiO

hotice said:


> Will it be able to decode iOS encrypted audio coming off lightning cables (like the E5 does)?


 
  
 we will release a lightning-Micro USB cable in the coming soon which supports all the USB DAC. so it is not a problem now.


----------



## JamesFiiO

dobrescu george said:


> What is the target price for it?
> 
> Also, if it is a DAC/AMP, it means that I will be able to use it with my Fiio x5, using X5 as a transport, so from coaux out of x5 to Q5?


 
  
 of course, the target price has not decided yet.


----------



## JamesFiiO

dacari said:


> I'd like to see a good gain control with 3 gain positions or at least the LOW gain with 0db, otherwise another amp/DAC barely usable with iems.


 
  
 in our new design, the low gain will set to -2dB. we will see if we can design a 3 gain control in it.


----------



## JamesFiiO

shawn71 said:


> Like the combo of both world- analog and digital vol controller for precise control.....Hope there will be display if there's wifi.
> 
> @JamesFiiO: how about adding AKM / BB DACs?


 
  
 AKM is also an option too. maybe the same in AK380, lol


----------



## x RELIC x

jamesfiio said:


> in our new design, the low gain will set to -2dB. we will see if we can design a 3 gain control in it.




Ooooooh. Gain control with amp modules?


----------



## x RELIC x

jamesfiio said:


> AKM is also an option too. maybe the same in AK380, lol




Could be a great idea.


----------



## JamesFiiO

zxzxxcxc said:


> In my opinion Q5 should have double 9018K2M or single 9018. As you said before "ESS9018 already includes 8 channels DAC so it does not need 2 DAC chips".
> 
> In my opinion more important is proper dac implementation and software than the dac itself. I'm not an expert but for me investing in better and better (or maybe in 2x) dacs is like listening to music in DSD.
> For me differences between flac and DSD are unhearable (and i can't find in web any blind test confirming differences) and everything is about how well the music is recorded/mastered.
> ...


 
  
  
 of course, the implementation is as important as what DAC chips is used. but the fact is the expensive model always used the expensive DACs, even in HIFIMAN, AK, and SONY.  to be honest, part because marketing .


----------



## JamesFiiO

BTW, it does not need any display in Q5 because all the control is done in your iphone/android phone/ipad/Laptop. did the wifi router need a screen ? lol


----------



## JamesFiiO

x relic x said:


> Ooooooh. Gain control with amp modules?


 
  
 BTW, what is the best name for the amp module?


----------



## nmatheis

Amp Module seems good. 

Glad to see a truly low gain!


----------



## nmatheis

How do the amp modules attach and how stable / sturdy are they, James?


----------



## JamesFiiO

nmatheis said:


> How do the amp modules attach and how stable / sturdy are they, James?


 
  
 There are two screws on the left/right side.


----------



## x RELIC x

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, what is the best name for the amp module?




'Amp Module' sounds pretty good. If I think of anything I'm sure I'll post it. :wink_face:


----------



## JamesFiiO

seems the DLNA/AIRPLAY is not so welcome ?


----------



## Vartan

jamesfiio said:


> seems the DLNA/AIRPLAY is not so welcome ?


 
 YES!


----------



## JamesFiiO

vartan said:


> YES!


 
  
 why? cause there are always compatible issues when used the usb out from smartphone.


----------



## Vartan

Because most of us hate wireless tech


----------



## Shawn71

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, what is the best name for the amp module?


 

 I can't think of any better name than THE "amp module"....as the amp kit is modular, retaining the native name matches perfect.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jamesfiio said:


> why? cause there are always compatible issues when used the usb out from smartphone.


 
 I think that the only really needed thing to have in a DAC/AMP is a DAC/AMP. There is no need to have DLNA for it, because chances are we are going to be plugging it into something that already has DLNA. Not to mention that it is easier to control wireless if you have a screen, and Q5 is screenless. 
  
  
 EDIT::: edit, about a name for amp modlues, it is fine to remain this way. It is what it is, there are not a lot of ways to go around it.


----------



## JamesFiiO

vartan said:


> Because most of us hate wireless tech


 
  
  





,  all the electronics gear will includes a wifi module in the future so it can connects to the internet.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

wow, this looks very tempting!
 any news about the release schedule? or did I miss it...


----------



## Replicant187

vartan said:


> Because most of us hate wireless tech:veryevil:




how about wireless electricity ?


----------



## Shawn71

jamesfiio said:


> ,  all the electronics gear will includes a wifi module in the future so it can connects to the internet.


 

 I wld expect to be in a - may be for Desktop version?......but not on this.


----------



## x RELIC x

Guys, I think FiiO has in mind to use DLNA/AirPlay in the Q5 as a simple receiver. Something that would not need a screen or controls to operate.

Imagine using your smartphone or iPad or laptop and selecting DLNA/AirPlay out to the Q5 and boom! instant music without wires. Could be useful in many situations and would get around any EMI issues of strapping something to the Q5. 

Personally I prefer not to use it as I like dedicated DAPs but if it doesn't degrade the other components SQ then why not (well, besides price). This could get interesting.


----------



## dacari

jamesfiio said:


> in our new design, the low gain will set to -2dB. we will see if we can design a 3 gain control in it.


 
  
 My bad, I read too fast about the modules, -2db seems ok for me.


----------



## Spadge

x relic x said:


> ...but if it doesn't degrade the other components SQ then why not (well, besides price). This could get interesting.




Exactly.
It would be a great feature for some users and so long as sound is not compromised when it is off then you don't have to turn it on.


----------



## AnakChan

jamesfiio said:


> AKM is also an option too. maybe the same in AK380, lol


Here you go...AKM4432VT...

http://m.av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20150622_708102.html

Same family, not the same model. Be a little different .


----------



## JamesFiiO

x relic x said:


> Guys, I think FiiO has in mind to use DLNA/AirPlay in the Q5 as a simple receiver. Something that would not need a screen or controls to operate.
> 
> Imagine using your smartphone or iPad or laptop and selecting DLNA/AirPlay out to the Q5 and boom! instant music without wires. Could be useful in many situations and would get around any EMI issues of strapping something to the Q5.
> 
> Personally I prefer not to use it as I like dedicated DAPs but if it doesn't degrade the other components SQ then why not (well, besides price). This could get interesting.


 
  
 yes, that is why we never add bluetooth in our amp/dac. in fact, we did some research in 5 years ago, the SQ still not as good as we expected.


----------



## sodesuka

Wow this looks perfect for my need. Hope to hear about the price soon.


----------



## Shawn71

anakchan said:


> Here you go...AKM4432VT...
> 
> http://m.av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20150622_708102.html
> 
> ...


 

 There you go, so we have some 3-4 fellow head-fi'ers opt for AKM, in just 4 pages.....


----------



## pekingduck

Price point? USD $300?


----------



## Shawn71

jamesfiio said:


> yes, that is why we never add bluetooth in our amp/dac. in fact, we did some research in 5 years ago, the SQ still not as good as we expected.


 

 Ok, as long as it wont eat much battery power and not costlier to add (else that cost is on our head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - final product cost) that's welcome then.... so is there a limitation in streaming the files (sampling rate)?


----------



## Shawn71

pekingduck said:


> Price point? USD $300?


 
 Also the rough price (that's on your mind James) of amp module(s)?....


----------



## JamesFiiO

The target price may set to $300.


----------



## x RELIC x

Excellent!!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Keep the huge screen_estate_ and get back the power.
  
 I will be buying this. Q5.
 I got an A&K OTG DAC until then but I need more power.
 Hope it's thin...please


----------



## Dobrescu George

@JamesFiiO
  
 DLNA is not very usefull because you are building a portable unit. To set up DLNA protocols, you need a computer, wireless routers, and high bandwidth. I do not think that the average user knows how to set it to usage, or that the average user will want these features. Most people buying a secondary DAC/AMP might look for more SQ than their DAPs.
  
 Though, it would so awesome to have DLNA, it might not appeal to enough people to explain the increase in production and selling cost.


----------



## HotIce

jamesfiio said:


> we will release a lightning-Micro USB cable in the coming soon which supports all the USB DAC. so it is not a problem now.



 
It is not a matter of cable here. The audio data out of an iOS device is encrypted, so either the cable has a decryption plus DAC (like the Apple lightning to 30 pin cable), but in which case the output will be analog, making the DAC on the new device useless, or the Q5 device itself needs to have the decryption logic in front of the DAC chip.
Or, you new cable has simply the decryption logic, which transforms the encrypted stream into a normal decrypted USB audio stream.


----------



## HotIce

jamesfiio said:


> seems the DLNA/AIRPLAY is not so welcome ?



 
The two ways I can see myself using this, are. Connected to a PC/laptop and using it as DAC plus amp, or connected to a smartphone. In the first case, PC/laptops can access DLNA content on the network, and smartphones can do that as well.
I would put more money where it matters (#1 amp, #2 DAC).


----------



## mandrake50

I think DLNA would be great. I have a large music collection on a sever. To be able to set the Q5 to stream from that collection and have the freedom to move around the house without being wired to something else would be great. 

Of course, no one would chose to compromise sound quality for the sake of wireless connectivity... if we could have both, it would be very nice.

As to "most people" .. I don't know. DLNA and WiFi is ubiquitous now. I think that the sort of person that would buy the Q5 would likely be quite capable of setting it up. If it is available on the Q5, I tend to thing it would be appreciated and used by a significant number of the people who would buy the Q5.

I might give an example. The Geek Wave was originally proposed with no wireless of any kind. The crowd mad a large push for it. The production units (if anyone ever sees one) will have both Bluetooth and WiFi. If one looks at the hard core LH Labs supporters, I don't think you will find a more ardent and in general well informed group of audiophiles. 

My vote is to keep the concept of WiFi/DLNA in play and optimize the system so that it does not affect sound quality.


----------



## JamesFiiO

hotice said:


> jamesfiio said:
> 
> 
> > seems the DLNA/AIRPLAY is not so welcome ?
> ...


 
  
 In fact, you can connect the Q5 with your smartphone in outside , something like wifi direct. them you don't need to bundle the amp with your smartphone.


----------



## mandrake50

jamesfiio said:


> In fact, you can connect the Q5 with your smartphone in outside , something like wifi direct. them you don't need to bundle the amp with your smartphone.




Good point. I could see many situations in which this would be very nice to be able to do.


----------



## Vartan

I think Q5 will kill companion one!!!


----------



## HotIce

jamesfiio said:


> In fact, you can connect the Q5 with your smartphone in outside , something like wifi direct. them you don't need to bundle the amp with your smartphone.



 
I can see that useful, if you do not want the phone strapped onto the DAC, because, say you are travelling and you need to have the phone free to handle calls.
Though wifi permanent link is going to be draining both phone and device battery.
So the question is, does having the phone free from cables, better than having longer battery life (and more $$ invested where sound quality matters)?


----------



## JamesFiiO

hotice said:


> jamesfiio said:
> 
> 
> > In fact, you can connect the Q5 with your smartphone in outside , something like wifi direct. them you don't need to bundle the amp with your smartphone.
> ...


 
  
  
 We can control the power consume at quite low level so it is not a big problem to our Q5, but not sure what happenned to the smartphone.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

hotice said:


> jamesfiio said:
> 
> 
> > In fact, you can connect the Q5 with your smartphone in outside , something like wifi direct. them you don't need to bundle the amp with your smartphone.
> ...


 

  I think he's implying it would be wireless capable with legacy/standard connects.
  
 So much win right there


----------



## Sound Eq

intersted


----------



## Dobrescu George

I do not know about a display-less wireless device. 
  
 I mean, you need something to control the play anyways, might as well connect the device directly to the device used to control the playlist and the playback.


----------



## hakushondaimao

dobrescu george said:


> I do not know about a display-less wireless device.
> 
> I mean, you need something to control the play anyways, might as well connect the device directly to the device used to control the playlist and the playback.


 
  
 I think the idea is you can have your Amp in a backpack or jacket pocket or something while out and about, and your phone connected wirelessly to the amp. All control can be done from the phone (stop, start, volume, pause to answer call, route call through amp to headphone/mic, etc). For something like this, you don't want (or need) a display on the amp end of the chain.


----------



## leobigfield

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, it does not need any display in Q5 because all the control is done in your iphone/android phone/ipad/Laptop. did the wifi router need a screen ? lol


 
  


jamesfiio said:


> We can control the power consume at quite low level so it is not a big problem to our Q5, but not sure what happenned to the smartphone.


 
  


jamesfiio said:


> In fact, you can connect the Q5 with your smartphone in outside , something like wifi direct. them you don't need to bundle the amp with your smartphone.


 
  
 That's everything i was looking for!!!


----------



## reihead

Interested!


----------



## Dobrescu George

hakushondaimao said:


> I think the idea is you can have your Amp in a backpack or jacket pocket or something while out and about, and your phone connected wirelessly to the amp. All control can be done from the phone (stop, start, volume, pause to answer call, route call through amp to headphone/mic, etc). For something like this, you don't want (or need) a display on the amp end of the chain.


 
 I do not really see the use of it. Portably speaking, you are going to have something in your pocket that gives a wire to your headphones/ IEMs. That thing should be connected with a wire to it's data transport. 
  
 Again, portable usage, I only have a wireless router inside the house, where else would I ever need something like this. Just think of the inferno of the lag.
  
 To think that using the phone to control a home server to feed Q5 a song is feasible is wrong. I can guarantee that my wireless router is unable to do such a thing. Similarly to how I cannot control my laptop with my smartphone using teamviewer or so, there is not enough bandwidth.
  
 EDIT::: maybe it would work for some, but raising the costs to add this, or sacrificing anything else for this would not be great, if you get my point. It would be better to have this feature, but raising costs is not exactly ideal. 
  
  
 EDIT2::: I am mostly interested in this becauseI it might offer the same SQ as X7 at a lower price, which is exactly what I wanted. 
  
 EDIT3::: I wonder what happened to Fiio K5, the new dock. I am yet to understand what it is going to do exactly.


----------



## shotgunshane

I for one would welcome AirPlay wifi compatibility.


----------



## AxelCloris

shotgunshane said:


> I for one would welcome AirPlay wifi compatibility.


 
  
 Hear hear, AirPlay makes me happy.


----------



## HotIce

James, how about the connectivity (wifi, BT, whatever) being a module itself?
The ones that wants it, pay for it. The ones that don't, might prefer to invest their $$ in a more expensive DAC or AMP module.


----------



## wega03

I don't see any sense on portable DAC/amp wireless, if it was a desktop DAC/amp yes but not for a portable unit, and sacrifice sq and battery life, o still preferred have it stack to my dap


----------



## shotgunshane

Lol, How does it affect your battery life and SQ if you don't turn on those features. It doesn't. 

Same old tired argument in every Dap, amp and dac thread on head-fi. Don't do anything that might appeal to the masses outside of head-fi. Pigeon hole yourself in a very niche market. Don't think of adding new tech features. My only advice is don't do it half baked. If it's going to drop out, have connectivity and reliability issues, don't do it. But if you can offer reliable and stable uncompressed AirPlay wireless streaming, I'm all for it.


----------



## warrior1975

shotgunshane-Well said brother! Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Dobrescu George

shotgunshane said:


> Lol, How does it affect your battery life and SQ if you don't turn on those features. It doesn't.
> 
> Same old tired argument in every Dap, amp and dac thread on head-fi. Don't do anything that might appeal to the masses outside of head-fi. Pigeon hole yourself in a very niche market. Don't think of adding new tech features. My only advice is don't do it half baked. If it's going to drop out, have connectivity and reliability issues, don't do it. But if you can offer reliable and stable uncompressed AirPlay wireless streaming, I'm all for it.


 
 I fully agree with this statement.


----------



## mandrake50

shotgunshane said:


> Lol, How does it affect your battery life and SQ if you don't turn on those features. It doesn't.
> 
> Same old tired argument in every Dap, amp and dac thread on head-fi. Don't do anything that might appeal to the masses outside of head-fi. Pigeon hole yourself in a very niche market. Don't think of adding new tech features. My only advice is don't do it half baked. If it's going to drop out, have connectivity and reliability issues, don't do it. But if you can offer reliable and stable uncompressed AirPlay wireless streaming, I'm all for it.


 

 Personally I could care less about Airplay. I simply do not deal with the super closed Apple ecosystem! A good DLNA implementation that will play nice with everything out there is what I want.
 I do agree about folks fighting something because they think it may cost them more money to the detriment of the producer and lots of others that have different desires for a high end portable DAC/AMP. FiiO has done a pretty darn good job keeping our ears happy. I feel pretty certain that they would not slap a feature in to one of their higher end devices that would make it sound crappy... As others have said... even if there may be an impact, as long as it can be turned off... no harm, no foul !


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

shotgunshane said:


> Lol, How does it affect your battery life and SQ if you don't turn on those features. It doesn't.
> 
> Same old tired argument in every Dap, amp and dac thread on head-fi. Don't do anything that might appeal to the masses outside of head-fi. Pigeon hole yourself in a very niche market. Don't think of adding new tech features. My only advice is don't do it half baked. If it's going to drop out, have connectivity and reliability issues, don't do it. But if you can offer reliable and stable uncompressed AirPlay wireless streaming, I'm all for it.


 

  rec'd for common sense.
  
  

  
 Bands over a swipe/touch screen is a non starter for most over the long haul and a deal breaker for many.
 An adjustable clipping system that can hold it behind the phone seems essential.
  
 Low profile.
 Easy attachment.
  
 The rest is up to the folks you pay in engineering to work out.
  
 I'd add that the smartphone clip/carrier should be in the bundle. Every click on a website related to sales is another chance to lose the sale... every extra step a regular buyer has to make to get what they consider basic functionality is another reason to just skip.


----------



## x RELIC x

James has said WiFi won't be a huge draw on the battery. He also said the target price is around $300.

Man, for a TOTL dual DAC implementation and amp modules that you can swap out this is insanely well priced. Add features that would broaden the market and be very useful to many people and it seems like this could be a fantastic product. If you don't need a certain feature just don't use it. I don't use the crossfeed on the e12 but I didn't go complaining about its inclusion in the amp either. 

I recently paid $350 for a portable amp that has no features, and it can only drive IEMs, but what it does do is amplify the audio signal very well and so I am more than happy with it. For $300 the Q5 seems like a steal of a product that would be very useful to a wide range of users. I'm looking more forward to sound impressions or at least user input on the audio path, not reading about debates whether someone will or will not use a convenience feature.


----------



## earfonia

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new DAC/AMP , it is our flagship DAC/AMP and there are some new features will be added as below, as usual, waiting for your feedback so we can make the best for your guys.
> 
> 1, First Dual DAC in our line ups. the DAC has not decided yet, maybe dual 1792A or ESS9018K2M or ESS9018 but we are worry about the power consume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow! This is awesome!  Thanks James!
  
 For DAC chip, any consideration for Burr-Brown DSD1793? At 90 mW it is not too bad for battery operated device. And the sound quality is quite proven, for example ifi micro iDSD.
 Or probably the well known AKM4399, but it is not designed for battery powered device.  The new AKM AK4452VN seems to be designed for low voltage and low power consumption (65 mW), but not sure how is the sound quality.
  
 Amp module will set this DAC+Amp in the High-End portable DAC+Amp. I suggest one of the option for the amp module is the combination of OPA827 Op-Amp + LME49600 buffer, my favorite combination in Fiio E12DIY.
  
 Smart SPDIF port, one port that combined both electrical and optical SPDIF would be nice, that is also function as both electrical SPDIF output and input (switchable).
  
 One more thing I would like to suggest is to have separate volume control for headphone output and line output. Either to use 2 of PGA2311, or one PGA4311. Like my Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC, we just have to press the volume button to switch between volume for HO and LO, with an LED indicator.
  
 Looking forward for this super DAC+Amp!


----------



## tjw321

I'll probably get one of these to replace my Raspberry Pi/Topping NX2 DLNA stack, which I set up in which ever room I end up working in so that I can listen to the files on my NAS.
  
 I also have one of these which will serve well enough for portable use: http://www.ravpower.com/ravpower-rp-wd02-filehub-6000mah-power-bank.html
  
 It's a portable DLNA server/Wifi access point with a built in battery (OK - so really I'll use my X3, but I *could* use this if I really wanted...maybe once I get to the hotel...).
  
 And for anyone who can't see how this can be controlled from a phone, google "MPD Clients". There is no need for huge bandwidth, and most use auto-discovery, so set-up is simple. Of course, there is no guarantee that the Q5 will use MPD, but this shows that it is entirely possible to do as Fiio are suggesting (of course), and to make it easy to use and set-up.


----------



## HiFiChris

@JamesFiiO:
  
 Sounds interesting.
  
 Just three quick question:
  
 1.: What's the approximated price in $ and does it include at least one amp module?
  
 2.: What's the estimated date of the release?
  
 3.: The most important one for me: how many steps does the digital volume control have, which is the lowest possible volume above mute in -dB and by what amount in dB does one step alter the volume? Are all steps equal or are they going to decrease the further you turn up the volume?


----------



## moohunt21

Dual AK4490 ? 

OPA637 (May be 637sm) Module at high output for headphones?

A very good Lineout?

When will it release?

I hope it can work well with EL-8 closed . 

And sound smooth, airy, spacious, big deep and wide soundstage.


----------



## talan7

I hope this will be more powerful than E18. At least as powerful as E12. I'm definitely getting this, and now the X7 as well.


----------



## nmatheis

Hey HiFiChris,

Target price has been stated at $300. 

Good question about volume control. I know some hate it, but I really prefer fine-grained volume control so I can use with IEM without fear of blowing out my eardrums as I find the right volume!


----------



## HiFiChris

@nmatheis:
  
 I also prefer a fine-grained volume control, imo the iBasso DX90's is perfect with attenuation steps of 0.5 dB over the whole adjustment range. Imo the FiiO X3 uses too huge steps in the lower regions so finding the dead-on volume you want isn't always possible.
  
  
@JamesFiiO:
  
 One more thing: what kinds of inputs (besides a micro USB jack) will the Q5 have?
 I'm really hoping that it may get a *digital optical input* and also an *analogue 3.5 mm Line Input* for using it as Amp only.


----------



## sodesuka

hifichris said:


> One more thing: what kinds of inputs (besides a micro USB jack) will the Q5 have?
> I'm really hoping that it may get a *digital optical input* and also an *analogue 3.5 mm Line Input* for using it as Amp only.


 
 Umm, if the title is anything to go by, it should have optical and line in, the line in is probably 3.5mm too considering the form factor.


----------



## nmatheis

I really like DX90 volume control, as well. It's very fine-grained, allowing sensitive IEM users to really find their sweet spot.


----------



## JamesFiiO

About the way to control the volume. both digital with display or analog with knobs are fine. with 3 gain control,  it is quite easy to find the suitable volume for your sensivitive IEM. 
  
 also a volume knobs make it looks more like a audio gear but not other electronics.


----------



## nmatheis

jamesfiio said:


> About the way to control the volume. both digital with display or analog with knobs are fine. with 3 gain control,  it is quite easy to find the suitable volume for your sensivitive IEM.
> 
> also a volume knobs make it looks more like a audio gear but not other electronics.




As long as I can use it with sensitive IEM, I'm happy James


----------



## HiFiChris

@sodesuka:
  
 You're right, reading the title hels sometimes. :-X
  
@JamesFiiO:
  
 Could you please give us any further information about this question?


> 3.: The most important one for me: how many steps does the digital volume control have, which is the lowest possible volume above mute in -dB and by what amount in dB does one step alter the volume? Are all steps equal or are they going to decrease the further you turn up the volume?


----------



## earfonia

jamesfiio said:


> About the way to control the volume. both digital with display or analog with knobs are fine. with 3 gain control,  it is quite easy to find the suitable volume for your sensivitive IEM.
> 
> also a volume knobs make it looks more like a audio gear but not other electronics.


 
  
 Agree. I much prefer knob volume control. It is much easier to control, as knob sensitives to the turning speed. And it looks much more classy, as you said, not like electronics toys with display. I hate volume control with push button.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

I also think that a knob would be better. much easier to set the right volume.
  
 Also @JamesFiiO are there any plans to release a new desktop DAC?


----------



## Dobrescu George

earfonia said:


> Agree. I much prefer knob volume control. It is much easier to control, as knob sensitives to the turning speed. And it looks much more classy, as you said, not like electronics toys with display. I hate volume control with push button.


 
 I, for one do like full digital better. 
  
 This is meant to be portable, and I think that volume knobs are much more prone to damage in general due to their more exposed nature than buttons.


----------



## zzffnn

James,

I like the DLNA idea. Without it, I would not buy Q5 even if you put 8 channels of DACs there 

Bluetooth has improved significantly over the past 5 years, please consider it again. You probably should not make a decision based on a 5-year-old research on digital products.

Creative E5 is a powerful amp/DAC/ADC with Bluetooth. You may learn from their design.

I prefer to have more amp power than that offered by X7, if I am buying an amp/DAC again.


----------



## earfonia

dobrescu george said:


> I, for one do like full digital better.
> 
> This is meant to be portable, and I think that volume knobs are much more prone to damage in general due to their more exposed nature than buttons.


 
  
 It is not analog volume pot. Please read James thread on the first page. The volume control is using PGA2311 chip. The volume knob is to digitally control the PGA2311. And the volume knob is protected like in the shown picture. So I guess should be durable.


----------



## ClieOS

Remember that full digital volume control can only work by eating into the digital bit of the music. For example, every -6dB equals to the loss of one bit. Think of the effect it will have if you are listening to a 16bit file with low volume, you could very well listening to 12bit music at the end. On the other hand, PGA2311 is actually still an analog volume control, but only the volume adjustment is digitally controlled. Therefore it offers near perfect volume match on both channel as well as very precise steps (0.5dB), but without any reduction of the digital resolution. It is pretty much an combination of the best of both world.
  
 The actual working is usually like this: an small ADC is monitoring the pot, when the pot turns, the ADC converts the actual turning into digital signal and send it to PGA2311, then the chip sets the volume accordingly using the tiny resistors network inside the chip.


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> Remember that full digital volume control can only work by eating into the digital bit of the music. For example, every -6dB equals to the loss of one bit. Think of the effect it will have if you are listening to a 16bit file with low volume, you could very well listening to 12bit music at the end. On the other hand, PGA2311 is actually still an analog volume control, but only the volume adjustment is digitally controlled. Therefore it offers near perfect volume match on both channel as well as very precise steps (0.5dB), but without any reduction of the digital resolution. It is pretty much an combination of the best of both world.
> 
> The actual working is usually like this: an small ADC is monitoring the pot, when the pot turns, the ADC converts the actual turning into digital signal and send it to PGA2311, then the chip sets the volume accordingly using the tiny resistors network inside the chip.


 
  
 That's right!
  
 What I mean is, Q5 is not using the conventional carbon track analog volume pot, but the more modern PGA2311 analog volume control.


----------



## JamesFiiO

clieos said:


> Remember that full digital volume control can only work by eating into the digital bit of the music. For example, every -6dB equals to the loss of one bit. Think of the effect it will have if you are listening to a 16bit file with low volume, you could very well listening to 12bit music at the end. On the other hand, PGA2311 is actually still an analog volume control, but only the volume adjustment is digitally controlled. Therefore it offers near perfect volume match on both channel as well as very precise steps (0.5dB), but without any reduction of the digital resolution. It is pretty much an combination of the best of both world.
> 
> The actual working is usually like this: an small ADC is monitoring the pot, when the pot turns, the ADC converts the actual turning into digital signal and send it to PGA2311, then the chip sets the volume accordingly using the tiny resistors network inside the chip.


 
  
 The hero always apear when I need help


----------



## Dobrescu George

clieos said:


> Remember that full digital volume control can only work by eating into the digital bit of the music. For example, every -6dB equals to the loss of one bit. Think of the effect it will have if you are listening to a 16bit file with low volume, you could very well listening to 12bit music at the end. On the other hand, PGA2311 is actually still an analog volume control, but only the volume adjustment is digitally controlled. Therefore it offers near perfect volume match on both channel as well as very precise steps (0.5dB), but without any reduction of the digital resolution. It is pretty much an combination of the best of both world.
> 
> The actual working is usually like this: an small ADC is monitoring the pot, when the pot turns, the ADC converts the actual turning into digital signal and send it to PGA2311, then the chip sets the volume accordingly using the tiny resistors network inside the chip.


 
 Nice data!
  
 I had forgotten to investigate in depth what PGA2311 does. 
  
  
  
 Sidenote: I wonder why there are 2 volume pots?


----------



## earfonia

dobrescu george said:


> Sidenote: I wonder why there are 2 volume pots?


 
  
 Good question!
 Probably one for headphone output, and the other one for line output. Just my guess.


----------



## HiFiChris

My guess is that one of them is the volume potentiometer and the other one is the input selector on that rendered image. Am I right, James?


----------



## Xdaggersoul

A potential rival of the Oppo HA2 and Cayin C5DAC! 
 Btw, will it work as a DAC/AMP for the Ipod Classic?


----------



## JamesFiiO

hifichris said:


> My guess is that one of them is the volume potentiometer and the other one is the input selector on that rendered image. Am I right, James?


 
  
 Yes！


----------



## earfonia

jamesfiio said:


> Yes！






hifichris said:


> My guess is that one of them is the volume potentiometer and the other one is the input selector on that rendered image. Am I right, James?




Right! Make sense! Volume and input selector.


----------



## JamesFiiO

xdaggersoul said:


> A potential rival of the Oppo HA2 and Cayin C5DAC!
> Btw, will it work as a DAC/AMP for the Ipod Classic?


 
  
 sorry not.


----------



## JamesFiiO

zzffnn said:


> James,
> 
> I like the DLNA idea. Without it, I would not buy Q5 even if you put 8 channels of DACs there
> 
> ...


 
  
 1, The SQ of bluetooth is a big problem , also it is quite easy to be disturbed . 
  
 2, The output power dedepened on the amp module.


----------



## JamesFiiO

seems like that dual AK4490 is a reasonable option.


----------



## HiFiChris

Will the Q5 come with an amp module already included (probably IEM module, like the X7)?


----------



## audionewbi

Why not AKm dac chip?


----------



## sodesuka

jamesfiio said:


> seems like that dual AK4490 is a reasonable option.


 

 Yes, go for it!


----------



## WayneWoondirts

jamesfiio said:


> seems like that dual AK4490 is a reasonable option.


 

 yes, very reasonable. would be a great choice, IMO.

 like HiFiChris, I'd also like to know if it comes with an amp module already mounted...
 and also the estimated release date.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jamesfiio said:


> seems like that dual AK4490 is a reasonable option.


 
 I would have been more interested in dual ESS9018 because it could have been with better treble, but I think that dual AK 4490 is fine too.
  
 I still wonder how much the amp modules are going to cost? 
  
 If you make a module with the op-amps of Fiio E12a, I think that it is going to sell like hot cakes


----------



## hakushondaimao

clieos said:


> Remember that full digital volume control can only work by eating into the digital bit of the music. For example, every -6dB equals to the loss of one bit. Think of the effect it will have if you are listening to a 16bit file with low volume, you could very well listening to 12bit music at the end. On the other hand, PGA2311 is actually still an analog volume control, but only the volume adjustment is digitally controlled. Therefore it offers near perfect volume match on both channel as well as very precise steps (0.5dB), but without any reduction of the digital resolution. It is pretty much an combination of the best of both world.
> 
> The actual working is usually like this: an small ADC is monitoring the pot, when the pot turns, the ADC converts the actual turning into digital signal and send it to PGA2311, then the chip sets the volume accordingly using the tiny resistors network inside the chip.


 

 Found that interesting. Thanks.


----------



## nmatheis

jamesfiio said:


> *1, The SQ of bluetooth is a big problem , also it is quite easy to be disturbed . *
> 
> 2, The output power dedepened on the amp module.




SQ is pretty darn good with latest Bluetooth implementations.

Signal dropout is a certainly a concern, however. I'm testing a Bluetooth amp right now, and signal does cut out sometimes when my iPhone fetches data.


----------



## Zxzxxcxc

jamesfiio said:


> seems like that dual AK4490 is a reasonable option.


 
  
 Is it a dac designed for portable devices? Like 9018K2M?


----------



## x RELIC x

zxzxxcxc said:


> Is it a dac designed for portable devices? Like 9018K2M?




You can read all about it here:

http://www.akm.com/file.jsp?id=273638


----------



## howdy

jamesfiio said:


> seems like that dual AK4490 is a reasonable option.



You should go with that option, they have a sound that never gets tiring.


----------



## JamesFiiO

waynewoondirts said:


> yes, very reasonable. would be a great choice, IMO.
> 
> like HiFiChris, I'd also like to know if it comes with an amp module already mounted...
> and also the estimated release date.


 
  
 Yes, it comes with a module ( for IEM ). and we have nothing to tell you about the release date cause it is too early .


----------



## JamesFiiO

nmatheis said:


> SQ is pretty darn good with latest Bluetooth implementations.
> 
> Signal dropout is a certainly a concern, however. I'm testing a Bluetooth amp right now, and signal does cut out sometimes when my iPhone fetches data.


 
  
 any suggestion about which bluetooth device has best sound quality and stable enough for HiFi ( without any noise, pause and noticeable delay )


----------



## x RELIC x

jamesfiio said:


> any suggestion about which bluetooth device has best sound quality and stable enough for HiFi ( without any noise, pause and noticeable delay )




Not portable, but my Oppo HA-1 desktop amp has pretty good Bluetooth with good range.


----------



## JamesFiiO

x relic x said:


> Not portable, but my Oppo HA-1 desktop amp has pretty good Bluetooth with good range.


 
  
 will buy a creative E5 and test by myself.


----------



## nmatheis

x relic x said:


> Not portable, but my Oppo HA-1 desktop amp has pretty good Bluetooth with good range.




Range does not equal stability, though. A smartphone has a lot of radios that create interference that your Oppo doesn't have to contend with.


----------



## x RELIC x

nmatheis said:


> Range does not equal stability, though. A smartphone has a lot of radios that create interference that your Oppo doesn't have to contend with.




Yeah, not a fair comparison. One of the reasons I really never use Bluetooth from my phone.


----------



## ThatPhil

Have you considered the new ESS9018AQ2M for the DAC


----------



## JamesFiiO

thatphil said:


> Have you considered the new ESS9018AQ2M for the DAC


 
  
 almost the same as ESS9018K2M, I have not idea why they release so many 9018XXX


----------



## nmatheis

x relic x said:


> Yeah, not a fair comparison. One of the reasons I really never use Bluetooth from my phone.




It's ok if you turn on Airplane Mode and then enable Bluetooth, but that kinda defeats all the streaming services - just a wee bit inconvenient...


----------



## earfonia

jamesfiio said:


> almost the same as ESS9018K2M, I have not idea why they release so many 9018XXX


 
  
 Could you please consider Texas Instrument DSD1793 ?
 The unique thing from DSD1793 is that it is partly pure PCM ladder DAC (the first significant 6 bits), so not entirely Delta-Sigma DAC like most of the modern DAC chips that convert PCM data to bitstream. Ladder DAC is known for it's natural and musical sound.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## WayneWoondirts

jamesfiio said:


> Yes, it comes with a module ( for IEM ). and we have nothing to tell you about the release date cause it is too early .


 
 Thanks for your answer.
 Thought that it would be too early. Thank you anyway.
 You guys keep up the good work and my money will keep landing in your pockets 
  
 The Q5 appears to match everything I'm looking for right now.


----------



## asdfg

But I think that there will be bound to have certain issues such as in-synchronization between the different lines...


----------



## asdfg

How would the Q5 fair with high-impedance headphones?


----------



## Zxzxxcxc

x relic x said:


> You can read all about it here:
> 
> http://www.akm.com/file.jsp?id=273638


 
  
 Thank you! Unfortunately I found here only recommended voltage whereas here (about 9018k2m) 
  
 http://www.esstech.com/PDF/ES9018-2M%20PB%20Rev%200.8%20130619.pdf
  
 I found recommended power. And I really don't know how to compare it ^ ^"

 can anyone help me?


----------



## JamesFiiO

You can buy a amp module with high output power.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

so there will be three different amp modules, IEM, high power and balanced.
 IEM will be shipped with the device.
 any information you can already share with us about the output power of the amps, @JamesFiiO? and maybe about the costs (I'm interested in the balanced module)... I know it's very early for that kind of information, but since you already stated that it will be around 300$ I thought I'd give it a shot.


----------



## x RELIC x

I'm not sure about the IEM amp but James mentioned in the X7 thread the high powered module would be around 500mW and the balanced module a bit more. Of course the spec may have changed as that was quite a while ago. 

It would be nice for JamesFiiO to give a little more info for both products sake.


----------



## JamesFiiO

waynewoondirts said:


>


 
  
 yes, the amp modules are designed for X7/Q5 and will be released before Q5 cause X7 will launch market in Aug


----------



## WayneWoondirts

oh right, why didn't I just check the X7 thread...
  
 it says 300mW @32 Ohms, this goes for the IEM amp I guess... nice!


----------



## WayneWoondirts

so, @JamesFiiO did you get yourself an E5 and how did it perform?
 I only had bad experiences with bluetooth myself.


----------



## Dobrescu George

waynewoondirts said:


> so, @JamesFiiO did you get yourself an E5 and how did it perform?
> I only had bad experiences with bluetooth myself.


 
 I also had bad experiences with bluetooth. But I do hope that at a point in the future, it could be used for high quality audio. Or we might want to use wireless devices, and carry a small battery for powering them... but then we would have interferrences and RF noise.


----------



## JamesFiiO

waynewoondirts said:


> so, @JamesFiiO did you get yourself an E5 and how did it perform?
> I only had bad experiences with bluetooth myself.


 
  
 testing but I can't share my experience with you guys cause it is not suitable to me.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

jamesfiio said:


> testing but I can't share my experience with you guys cause it is not suitable to me.


 
  
 thanks for you answer.
 it's not suitable for me neither. I think it still needs a lot of work to perform well.


----------



## ClieOS

waynewoondirts said:


> thanks for you answer.
> it's not suitable for me neither. I think it still needs a lot of work to perform well.


 
  
 I am pretty sure what James means by 'not suitable to me' is referring to him being a MOT and, by forum's rules, shouldn't post any opinion regarding his competitor's products.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

clieos said:


> I am pretty sure what James means by 'not suitable to me' is referring to him being a MOT and, by forum's rules, shouldn't post any opinion regarding his competitor's products.


 

 Oh, right. of course. how could I not see that...
 But I was actually more looking for some impressions about the bluetooth connection, how it performs. well, nevermind. sorry.


----------



## Dobrescu George

clieos said:


> I am pretty sure what James means by 'not suitable to me' is referring to him being a MOT and, by forum's rules, shouldn't post any opinion regarding his competitor's products.


 
 Yeah, it is understand-able that he cannot really say anything about competitor's products. 
  
 By bluetooth I think that the usability would be greater for people who already have a smartphone, but the RF interferrences would be pretty high.


----------



## Ivabign

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, what is the best name for the amp module?


 

 "PBA" (Piggy Back Amp)
  
 "AP" (Amp Pack)
  
 "PP" (Power Pack)
  
 "PAP" (Power Amp Pack) - Just don't use an amplifier that "smears" the details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 "RP" (Rap Pack) - Complete with red "Beats" logo
  
 "PU" (Pump Up) 
  
 "PB&J" (I'm Hungry)


----------



## leobigfield

JP - "Juice Pack" 
"Ampack"
IMA - "Interchangeable Modular Amplifier"
A.M.P. - "Amplifier Module Pack"


----------



## Shawn71

leobigfield said:


> JP - "Juice Pack"
> "Ampack"
> IMA - "Interchangeable Modular Amplifier"
> *A.M.P. - "Amplifier Module Pack"*


 
 Soooo matching and still retains "AMP"......


----------



## nmatheis

leobigfield said:


> JP - "*Juice Pack*"
> "Ampack"
> IMA - "Interchangeable Modular Amplifier"
> A.M.P. - "Amplifier Module Pack"




Don't use that unless you want to get sued by Mophie!


----------



## leobigfield

nmatheis said:


> Don't use that unless you want to get sued by Mophie!


 
  
 Didn't know that one!


----------



## WayneWoondirts

simply *champs* (changeable amplifiers)


----------



## x RELIC x

*CH • AMPS*


----------



## HiFiChris

*VAMP* (versatile amplifier module pack) wouldn't sound bad imo.


----------



## ClieOS

hifichris said:


> *VAMP* (versatile amplifier module pack) wouldn't sound bad imo.


 
  
 V-Moda already used that name in the past.


----------



## Vartan

Lamp


----------



## Dobrescu George

M-amps - mini amps. 
 LPB - little power bricks
 µAMP- micro amps
 µmap - micro modular amp packs
 mbop - magic box of power
 pet - portable energy transformators
 plp - portable line power
 AS - amping solution
 PAS - portable amping solution
 sas - small amping solution
 Xpsz - xtra power small size
 cfom - continous flow of music
 upha - ultra portable headphone amplifiers





Amp - Radical amps
 Amp² - Squared amp
 ºAmplifier


----------



## Hal Rockwell

hifichris said:


> *VAMP* (versatile amplifier module pack) wouldn't sound bad imo.


 
VAMP


----------



## Koolpep

hal rockwell said:


> VAMP




V-Moda has used that already with their VAMP VERZA, sorry....


----------



## Hal Rockwell

koolpep said:


> V-Moda has used that already with their VAMP VERZA, sorry....


 
  
 The first version of Behringer's VAMP was released before V-Moda brand was even conceived.


----------



## maikuirock

Im glad you're going with an Analog volume pot! Using the V2 and will be the same for the V2+, they make the source the volume control (Computer and Phone respectively). With this the increases are in set incremements which doesnt give you full control of volume and the number of steps is limited to the number your source can increase.

I hope your IEM module matches or even betters your E12a. Its great! Using the C5 DAC/Amp maybe 32 at 300 (low) was too loud for IEM and produced hiss and often clipping. When going back to the E12a there was beautiful silence.


----------



## Koolpep

hal rockwell said:


> The first version of Behringer's VAMP was released before V-Moda brand was even conceived.




Even more of a reason not to use it. Though I like the word. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## ClieOS

What is wrong with just calling it amp module anyway? Hifiman is the first to try to name their amp module system in the HM801 but no one really use it at the end (and most probably don't remember that name). Even they don't use it anymore in HM901 and just refer it as amp module, like everyone else.


----------



## nmatheis

Stop being so damn reasonable ClieOS :wink_face:


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> What is wrong with just calling it amp module anyway? Hifiman is the first to try to name their amp module system in the HM801 but no one really use it at the end (and most probably don't remember that name). Even they don't use it anymore in HM901 and just refer it as amp module, like everyone else.


 
  
 +1. Agree.
 There are so many new acronym and names in this Head-Fi world, it is time to go back to simplicity. Just name it amp module so anyone would easily understand it.


----------



## tiddlywinks

Q5 Mod 1
 Q5 Mod 2
 etc....?


----------



## bahamot

FiiO Replaceable Amp Module (FiiRAM) 
 This could be the first FiiO product to me.


----------



## RedJohn456

would it be possible to use a module with balanced 3.5mm output? Like on the pono?


----------



## nmatheis

Thanks for reminding me of this future Fiio product RedJohn456!

What's the status JamesFiiO & Joe Bloggs? Hmm?


----------



## leobigfield

Any news?


----------



## nmatheis

JamesFiiO?

Joe Bloggs?

Hello?

Come back and talk to us.

We miss you...


----------



## x RELIC x

James popped in to the X3ii thread saying they're occupied with the X7. I imagine they're pretty swamped with all the new products lately.

Man, FiiO has EXPLODED over the last couple years.


----------



## wega03

i hope read news from joe soon


----------



## nmatheis

x relic x said:


> James popped in to the X3ii thread saying they're occupied with the X7. I imagine they're pretty swamped with all the new products lately.
> 
> Man, FiiO has EXPLODED over the last couple years.




One thing I've really felt was a strong point is Fiio's presence and interactivity. I feel like it's dropping off - maybe because their business is expanding so quickly. Perhaps they need more headfi ambassadors to keep up? 

If not, it feels like they start a conversation and leave midstream. It's not a good feeling and leaves people wondering what's going on. 

I just used this positive trait it to sell someone on X5ii in another DAP thread, actually - against a DAP I enjoyed but felt was a bit outclassed by the X5ii feature-wise even if not aesthetically. 

Being a Fiio old-timer now, owning X3 and X5 Classics, I remember the good old days of James and Joe popping into threads regularly and engaging in PM conversations. I can't help but feel that sense of intimacy is fading when I see a thread like this languishing.


----------



## x RELIC x

nmatheis said:


> One thing I've really felt was a strong point is Fiio's presence and interactivity. I feel like it's dropping off - maybe because their business is expanding so quickly. Perhaps they need more headfi ambassadors to keep up?
> 
> If not, it feels like they start a conversation and leave midstream. It's not a good feeling and leaves people wondering what's going on.
> 
> ...




Agreed. I'm a FiiO old-timer as well and feel the interaction is a big plus. But I imagine it's difficult to keep up with the growth of the business never mind the amount of posts in the multiple threads. More representation would be welcome.


----------



## sodesuka

With the advent of dualshock 4 I sometimes wish that there's a device that accept all kind of digital input, convert it to bluetooth or wifi direct signal, and send it to another portable dac/amp you can connect to your earphones. Would be really really convenient for watching movies or playing video games.
  
 Since Fiio Q5 uses wifi direct, maybe releasing a companion product for converting digital input (usb, coax, and optical) to wifi signal might be a good idea James?


----------



## howdy

still looking forward to this especially if they use the AKM DACs.


----------



## JamesFiiO

the latest design


----------



## x RELIC x

Three stage gain, bass boost, battery indicator, and selector button on top with illuminated indicators on the front. 

Looking good.


----------



## sodesuka

Wait, so the USB port (and presumably, also the charging port) is on the amp module?


----------



## HiFiChris

jamesfiio said:


> the latest design


 
  
 Looks good. Will the volume adjustment remain digital?


----------



## ClieOS

hifichris said:


> Looks good. Will the volume adjustment remain digital?


 
  
 I thought it has always remained analog since announced?


----------



## HiFiChris

clieos said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > Looks good. Will the volume adjustment remain digital?
> ...




Wasn't it announced as digitally controlled analogue volume control with PGA2311?


----------



## ClieOS

hifichris said:


> Wasn't it announced as digitally controlled analogue volume control with PGA2311?


 
  
 Should still be it. No reason to change that.


----------



## bzippy

i like the idea of a name for the amp module system.
 a few possible names:
  
 FiiAmp
 ModA
 VersAmp
 Flexii


----------



## nmatheis

When do we get to play with it JamesFiiO?


----------



## wega03

Loks great, waiting for release date and price


----------



## WayneWoondirts

jamesfiio said:


> the latest design


 
 everything look great, except the front with the huge indicators imo.


----------



## nmatheis

waynewoondirts said:


> everything look great, except the front with the huge indicators imo.




I don't know. Kinda reminds me of the good old days!


----------



## sodesuka

waynewoondirts said:


> everything look great, except the front with the huge indicators imo.


 

 I think it's fine as long as it's not too bright to be distracting and not consume too much power. It gives the dac more personality too compared to E7, E17, E18 which all have samey look, you can immediately tell this one is Q5.


----------



## Dobrescu George

It looks nice. 
  
 I wonder how will it sound. 
  
 I also wonder why the indicators are so big? I would had preffered small LEDs.


----------



## sandman1990

Design looks good. An OLED display might be more intuitive instead of so many LEDs.


----------



## raband

Amp module = ampule


----------



## Dobrescu George

raband said:


> Amp module = ampule


 
 this translates as a very bad thing in Romanian. It means " I have dics". Without any jokes. 
  
 A very amuzing coincidence.


----------



## raband

Haha. Almost "I have Dacs"


----------



## maikuirock

waynewoondirts said:


> everything look great, except the front with the huge indicators imo.




I agree! Also, no image of the USB port? Will the DAC module have separate power? We don't want this thing draining our phones over OTG.


----------



## Sam21

PLEASE PUT EQ IN THIS THING, I WOULD BE THE FIRST IN LINE TO BUY IT.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sam21 said:


> PLEASE PUT EQ IN THIS THING, I WOULD BE THE FIRST IN LINE TO BUY IT.


 
 How would it be possible to put an EQ in it, if it just decodes the data stream, and does not process it?
  
 And I do think that the chances are that your software EQ will be better than hardware, because hardware EQ tends to degrade the signal more than software. Well, in theory it is possible to have software EQ that is fully lossless, while the funaments of circuits and electricity dictate that a circuit degerades a signal more, and will affect it's fidelity.
  
 I know that in practice there are hardware EQ that sounds better than particular software, but just saying, using the software EQ you have is going to have the possibility of creating better results.


----------



## Sam21

I loved the EQ on E17, and I like the EQ on my E5. but the E5 has a software EQ not hardware. I would love to have a DAC/AMP that lets you EQ all inputs' signals,specificly the line-in.
  
  
 Bass Boost aint nothing but a hardware EQ, why not put a 10 steps EQ in this thing, like the E17 ?


----------



## Shawn71

sam21 said:


> PLEASE PUT EQ IN THIS THING, I WOULD BE THE *FIRST IN LINE* TO BUY IT.


 

 oh,Pls don't shout near my ears standing BEHIND ME, as you makin me deaf....


----------



## AUserName501

Agreed. I would certainly like an internal parametric equalizer.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

@JamesFiiO can you reveal anything new about the Q5? release date? DAC? dimensions? price? anything?


----------



## JamesFiiO

sorry been busy in the X7 , but here are something new for you guys.


----------



## nmatheis

jamesfiio said:


> sorry been busy in the X7 , but here are something new for you guys.




Nice! What's up with the rectangular bulge with 5 lines and LEDs on it?


----------



## JamesFiiO

nmatheis said:


> Nice! What's up with the rectangular bulge with 5 lines and LEDs on it?




to indicate the input


----------



## JamesFiiO

In fact, we have two options for the Q5, now we need your feedback !


----------



## Spadge

Model B for my eyes. Looks cleaner and more professional.


----------



## ThatPhil

I prefer B as well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jamesfiio said:


> In fact, we have two options for the Q5, now we need your feedback !


 
 Borh look interesting, but model B looks better. 
  
 I wanted to ask, why are you still implementing mechanical volume wheels? Digital volume control is much better for any reasons my mind can forsee.


----------



## Vartan

*B *better!


----------



## howdy

I choose B. I like the DACs they implemented in this, I will definitely be buying this.


----------



## HiFiChris

*B* all the way, though I'd like to see a third "C" rendering.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

I liked the very first rendering, but out of those two I'd go with B. The huge LED indicators don't look good imo


----------



## nmatheis

I like B better, as well.


----------



## mandrake50

Model B for my liking too. I think the A model led panels are just too big.


----------



## jamato8

Looks good with a lot of potential.


----------



## zzffnn

Model B looks better to me.


----------



## azerty6713

B looks nice !


----------



## Tony-S

B looks good!


----------



## reihead

Already voted on Facebook, but B for better


----------



## oliverpool

Defintely B.


----------



## jynxed

B looks cleaner and more minimalist, so I prefer B too.


----------



## hakushondaimao

I like "B." I also like the mechanical volume pot.


----------



## x RELIC x

*OPTION A FTW!!!!* 





I'm kidding! I like option B.


----------



## Cagin

B


----------



## JamesFiiO

thanks, I believe we already have answer. thx for everyone.


----------



## nmatheis

jamesfiio said:


> thanks, I believe we already have answer. thx for everyone.




Thanks for stopping the madness, James


----------



## Sam21

the original ESS9018 has 135 SNR
  
 the ESS9018k2m has 127 SNR ...
  
  
 so please put in the original ESS9018 !! that would rock!!


----------



## Vain III

I currently have a Fiio E18 and I can't wait to upgrade to the Q5. I know whatever Fiio puts out will be HQ. 

aka subbed


----------



## JamesFiiO

vain iii said:


> I currently have a Fiio E18 and I can't wait to upgrade to the Q5. I know whatever Fiio puts out will be HQ.
> 
> 
> 
> aka subbed



 


It is too early to talk the ETA of Q5, but it may take 10 months to develop it.


----------



## Max Choiral

sam21 said:


> the original ESS9018 has 135 SNR
> 
> the ESS9018k2m has 127 SNR ...
> 
> ...


 

 Hm, I wonder if this difference in 8 SNR will be audible to smb
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




*Fiio, *leave Sabre aside already and go with PCM 1702/1704


----------



## Sam21

max choiral said:


> Hm, I wonder if this difference in 8 SNR will be audible to smb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, the original ES9018 has 135 SNR for mono, not stereo....


----------



## Max Choiral

sam21 said:


> Sorry, the original ES9018 has 135 SNR for mono, not stereo....


 

 So? 8 * 2 == 16. Do you still believe you will hear the difference?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't know why you're so eager about SNR numbers, but I believe an implementation plays higher role. And your ears  - everything else doesn't matter


----------



## goodyfresh

You guys should ditch the pure delta-sigma DAC chips and implement something like the Advanced Segment architecture chips from T.I.  

 Anyway, any official word yet on just how much output power the amp-module in this and the X7 will have?  Like, how much output into 32 ohms, or 300 ohms?  ANd what the output-impedance will be?


----------



## x RELIC x

goodyfresh said:


> *You guys should ditch the pure delta-sigma DAC chips and implement something like the Advanced Segment architecture chips from T.I.  *
> 
> 
> Anyway, any official word yet on just how much output power the amp-module in this and the X7 will have?  Like, how much output into 32 ohms, or 300 ohms?  ANd what the output-impedance will be?




FiiO already uses the TI PCM1792A in the X5 and X5ii. The DAC chip is still all Delta-Sigma but with a multi level design to better deal with inherent noise from Delta-Sigma. Many DAC chips use a similar approach, and 'Advanced Segment' is just TI's name for the multi level D-S implementation they use.

From the PCM1792A white paper pdf:

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1792a.pdf



> _"THEORY OF OPERATION
> Current
> Segment Analog Output DAC
> Upper 6 Bits
> ...


----------



## goodyfresh

x relic x said:


> FiiO already uses the TI PCM1792A in the X5 and X5ii. The DAC chip is still all Delta-Sigma but with a multi level design to better deal with inherent noise from Delta-Sigma. Many DAC chips use a similar approach, and 'Advanced Segment' is just TI's name for the multi level D-S implementation they use.
> 
> From the PCM1792A white paper pdf:
> 
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1792a.pdf


 

 So then is there ANYTHING out there with a R-2R architecture, or at least partially R-2R architecture, that could be utilized in something like the Q5 or the X7?


----------



## x RELIC x

goodyfresh said:


> So then is there ANYTHING out there with a R-2R architecture, or at least partially R-2R architecture, that could be utilized in something like the Q5 or the X7?




Sure, but it would be expensive and inherently large.


----------



## goodyfresh

x relic x said:


> Sure, but it would be expensive and inherently large.


 
 If I'm not mistaken, don't some of HiFiMan's DAP's use R-2R DAC's in them?


----------



## Max Choiral

x relic x said:


> Sure, but it would be expensive and inherently large.


 

 Not really that big
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 Review: http://www.headfonia.com/tento-porta-dac-1866-all-your-bases/


----------



## Max Choiral

goodyfresh said:


> If I'm not mistaken, don't some of HiFiMan's DAP's use R-2R DAC's in them?


 

 Most of them used r2r in the past. 601, 601le, 602, 603, 801 etc.


----------



## x RELIC x

goodyfresh said:


> If I'm not mistaken, don't some of HiFiMan's DAP's use R-2R DAC's in them?





max choiral said:


> Not really that big




I was thinking of the HiFiMan HM801 and some others that are thicker. The HM602 and 601LE are some other options of HiFiMan DAPs that use R-2R. 

Looking at the functionality with the amp modules being interchangeable with the X7 it may not fit within FiiO's design principle for the unit. However, I'm a HUGE convert to R-2R so if they can implement the DAC properly within the desired design while maintaining desired battery life I wish them all the luck. I know I'd grab one immediately.


----------



## goodyfresh

x relic x said:


> I was thinking of the HiFiMan HM801 and some others that are thicker. The HM602 and 601LE are some other options of HiFiMan DAPs that use R-2R.
> 
> Looking at the functionality with the amp modules being interchangeable with the X7 it may not fit within FiiO's design principle for the unit. However, I'm a HUGE convert to R-2R so if they can implement the DAC properly (you need two DAC chips for stereo) within the desired design while maintaining desired battery life I wish them all the luck. I know I'd grab one immediately.


 

 Yeah see everybody says that R-2R sounds way more natural.  But I know that it also tends to be more expensive.  I'm kind of wondering if there's any DAC out there for under $400 or 450 which uses R-2R, takes USB input, and performs really well.


----------



## Max Choiral

x relic x said:


> Looking at the functionality with the amp modules being interchangeable with the X7 it may not fit within FiiO's design principle for the unit. However, I'm a HUGE convert to R-2R so if they can implement the DAC properly (you need two DAC chips for stereo) within the desired design while maintaining desired battery life I wish them all the luck. I know I'd grab one immediately.


 
 One chip will be enough as long as the implementation is pretty good; will be ok with even 6 hours of battery life. But I highly doubt there will be a chance with r-2r interchangeable module
 Unfortunately, today no one uses r-2r technology anymore for producing portable gear


----------



## x RELIC x

goodyfresh said:


> Yeah see everybody says that R-2R sounds way more natural.  But I know that it also tends to be more expensive.  I'm kind of wondering if there's any DAC out there for under $400 or 450 which uses R-2R, takes USB input, and performs really well.




http://penonaudio.com/music-mp3-players/Portable/HiFiMAN-HM601LE

http://penonaudio.com/music-mp3-players/Portable/HiFiMAN-HM603s


----------



## x RELIC x

max choiral said:


> *One chip will be enough as long as the implementation is pretty good*; will be ok with even 6 hours of battery life. But I highly doubt there will be a chance with r-2r interchangeable module
> Unfortunately, today no one uses r-2r technology anymore for producing portable gear




D'oh. I edited my post.

FiiO usually shoots for around 10 hours battery life. It all depends on what the company wants to market.


----------



## Max Choiral

x relic x said:


> I was only thinking of the PCM1704UK, and not considered others like the Phillips TDA1543. D'oh. I edited my post.
> 
> FiiO usually shoots for around 10 hours battery life. It all depends on what the company wants to market.


 
 Tento uses single AD1866
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Of course, but consumers might affect the process. After all, everything is done in order to satisfy our demands
  
  


goodyfresh said:


> Yeah see everybody says that R-2R sounds way more natural.


 
 I can tell for sure that when r-2r is done properly - it's an unbelievably musical thing


----------



## x RELIC x

max choiral said:


> Tento uses single AD1866
> Of course, but consumers might affect the process. After all, everything is done in order to satisfy our demands
> 
> 
> I can tell for sure that when r-2r is done properly - it's an unbelievably musical thing




Just read up on the Tento. What a very cool unit. Granted it's only 16bit but I wouldn't put much stock in that given the implementation looks solid. I agree that if FiiO could properly implement a r-2r DAC while being able to use the amp modules for X7 they'd have one very sweet unit.


----------



## goodyfresh

x relic x said:


> Just read up on the Tento. What a very cool unit. Granted it's only 16bit but I wouldn't put much stock in that given the implementation looks solid. I agree that if FiiO could properly implement a r-2r DAC while being able to use the amp modules for X7 they'd have one very sweet unit.


 

 If you're that into the audio-science I'm sure you know that 16-bit vs. 24-bit doesn't matter anyway.


----------



## wega03

I saw a picture of fiio q1 on Instagram published by lieven, Joe Bloggs what can you say about that DAC/amp ??


----------



## nmatheis

wega03 said:


> I saw a picture of fiio q1 on Instagram published by lieven, Joe Bloggs what can you say about that DAC/amp ??




Fiio's renaming their amps. Looks like a next-gen E11+DAC to me.


----------



## wega03

And here is the picture


----------



## wega03

nmatheis said:


> Fiio's renaming their amps. Looks like a next-gen E11+DAC to me.




But this is a DAC/Amp, not just Amp


----------



## nmatheis

wega03 said:


> nmatheis said:
> 
> 
> > Fiio's renaming their amps. Looks like a next-gen E11+DAC to me.
> ...




Yes looks like E11 amp + DAC


----------



## wega03

nmatheis said:


> Yes looks like E11 amp + DAC




Maybe you're right but fiio web page don't show e07k anymore


----------



## nmatheis

wega03 said:


> nmatheis said:
> 
> 
> > Yes looks like E11 amp + DAC
> ...




Aww yeah, I forgot the had a DAC/Amp under the E17...


----------



## John Culter

Please, can you make sure the DAC section of Q7 (or X7 as well) will finally allow volume control directly through Apple OSX?
  
 Astell & Kern DAPs works perfectly this way.
  
 When you connect the DAC to the OS X, it allows you to use system volume keys to operate the output volume.
  
 This perfectly works with the Audioquest Dragonfly and AK240 and also many others.
  
 Unfortunately with any FiiO product - like X5, E17K .. etc - you just get volume controls GRAYED OUT - not usable.
  
 So instead of this :
  
  


 We are getting this :


----------



## Tony-S

Hi guys,
  
 FiiO posted a nice picture on facebook that showed how the new products are linked to existing ones: https://www.facebook.com/FiiOAUDIO/posts/973049686085898:0
  
 Thought this might be interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers


----------



## nmatheis

John Culter: Fellow Mac user here. That would be great!


----------



## Eudis

Can you make and release so I can buy it already ?


----------



## goodyfresh

eudis said:


> Can you make and release so I can buy it already
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LMAO my thoughts exactly!


----------



## HiFiChris

... or so.


----------



## Sam21

Is the DAC chip decided yet ...


----------



## wega03

Anyone knows the price??


----------



## HiFiChris

wega03 said:


> Anyone knows the price??




I'm quite certain that it will take many months for the Q5 to be released, so it's a bit early to speculate about the price (and probably FiiO hasn't set the final price yet either).


----------



## JamesFiiO

hifichris said:


> I'm quite certain that it will take many months for the Q5 to be released, so it's a bit early to speculate about the price (and probably FiiO hasn't set the final price yet either).


 
  
 yes, we just decided the form factor .


----------



## JamesFiiO

sam21 said:


> Is the DAC chip decided yet ...


 
  
  
 Dual AKM4490, same as AK380, lol


----------



## WitzyZed

jamesfiio said:


> Dual AKM4490, same as AK380, lol


----------



## goodyfresh

jamesfiio said:


> Dual AKM4490, same as AK380, lol


 
 Now I'm drooling. . .


----------



## WayneWoondirts

goodyfresh said:


> Now I'm drooling. . .


 

 haha!


----------



## Max Choiral

jamesfiio said:


> Dual AKM4490, same as AK380, lol


----------



## goodyfresh

max choiral said:


>


 

 Um. . .what's so bad about that as to merit such a reaction, man?


----------



## WitzyZed

I'm just hoping James is serious.


----------



## Sam21

I guess dual AKM4490 is in the same class as a single AKM4399, the Chip used in Bifrost.


----------



## RAFA

Its all about the implementation people... I have the Fostex HPA8 with its akm4399. As a Dac its great, but the headphone amp section could be better.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

rafa said:


> Its all about the implementation people... I have the Fostex HPA8 with its akm4399. As a Dac its great, but the headphone amp section could be better.


 
 totally agree, my fellow austrian head-fier!

 I have an AK100II and the X3II at home, both use the same DAC and the AK plays in a whole different league. (sound and price wise)


----------



## Max Choiral

goodyfresh said:


> Um. . .what's so bad about that as to merit such a reaction, man?


 

 Nothing really
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just that no one is trying different approach, copying each other.


----------



## RAFA

waynewoondirts said:


> totally agree, my fellow austrian head-fier!
> 
> 
> I have an AK100II and the X3II at home, both use the same DAC and the AK plays in a whole different league. (sound and price wise)




Will you come to the meet on the 17th. I sadly cannot make it.

True. As long as pcb design is top notch, any dac will do its job.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

rafa said:


> Will you come to the meet on the 17th. I sadly cannot make it.
> 
> True. As long as pcb design is top notch, any dac will do its job.


 
 I'm not sure yet. Hope to. Is the 17th settled?
  
 yep. people forget that too often.


----------



## tomscy2000

jamesfiio said:


> 5, Maybe supports DLNA and airplay which means it is includes a wifi receiver. *I think it is the first portable amp with WIFI input.*


 
  
 Looks great, James --- FiiO is getting ever better. However, you may want to revise this statement.
  
 The Celsus Sound Companion One (from Heap Venture) came out mid-2015 and supports 24/192 wireless streaming via DLNA and AirPlay.


----------



## Army-Firedawg

*begins watering at mouth*


----------



## gr8soundz

jamesfiio said:


> In fact, we have two options for the Q5, now we need your feedback !


 
  
 Can we also get navigation control buttons (play/pause/next/previous like the E18) in the final design?


----------



## Riisalat

Can anyone guess what is going to be yhe orice range for this ? 200 usd ? ^.^


----------



## howdy

riisalat said:


> Can anyone guess what is going to be yhe orice range for this ? 200 usd ? ^.^



 

James was thinking around 300 USD


----------



## goodyfresh

howdy said:


> riisalat said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone guess what is going to be yhe orice range for this ? 200 usd ? ^.^
> ...


 

 And release-date?


----------



## howdy

^
If I were a betting Man I would say shortly after the X7 is released as this seems like it would be something that was built to be paired together.


----------



## Riisalat

howdy said:


> riisalat said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone guess what is going to be yhe orice range for this ? 200 usd ? ^.^
> ...


over 300 ? Its going to be quite expensive  i am looking forward to the k5 though. Stopped myself from getting a magni/o2 for that !


----------



## HiFiChris

Well, for the features, I don't find $300 expensive at all.


----------



## Spadge

goodyfresh said:


> And release-date?




I thought I read somewhere that it will be released in about 10 months. 
Makes sense if they are still talking about case design now.


----------



## Havo42

jamesfiio said:


> Dual AKM4490, same as AK380, lol


----------



## RebeccaSugar

jamesfiio said:


> Dual AKM4490, same as AK380, lol


----------



## Sam21

Does it have pre-amp line out ?


----------



## FiiO-Shadow

sam21 said:


> Does it have pre-amp line out ?


 
  
 Hi, it may not have the pre-amp line out according to the current design plan. As you know, the Q5 is still in the development, and the final design is not yet determined. You may pay attention to it when it is released.


----------



## A2029

fiio-shadow said:


> Hi, it may not have the pre-amp line out according to the current design plan. As you know, the Q5 is still in the development, and the final design is not yet determined. You may pay attention to it when it is released.


 
  
 I'd very much like to have a DAC line out which I could feed into another desktop amp at home for larger, more power hungry headphones.
  
 Also, I'm hoping the battery life is very long, even if it means bigger case size


----------



## zzffnn

Do we know whether or not Q5 would have line out, at this point? I also like to have it too, if possible.


----------



## WitzyZed

Shadow's post above says it is TBD.
Still in concept/planning stage.


----------



## RedJohn456

@JamesFiiO  not many chinese companies are releasing apple MFI certified devices which run straight out of an iPhone or iPod touch. Only one I can really think of is the Oppo Ha2. It would be really cool to be able to run the Q5 straight out of an iPhone with only one cable. Otherwise, only way would be to use a camera connecting kit cable, and that is rather cumbersome.
  
 Apple was saying the other day that one of the largest markets for iPhones is actually China, so the potential market might be quite big for an apple MFI certified amp/dac. Is this something you might consider?


----------



## nmatheis

RedJohn456: I swear Fiio already announced a micro USB -> Lightning cable that does just what you're talking about. If they do, it'll save us iPhone users money and cable overload. Will try to find a link.


----------



## Dobrescu George

redjohn456 said:


> @JamesFiiO  not many chinese companies are releasing apple MFI certified devices which run straight out of an iPhone or iPod touch. Only one I can really think of is the Oppo Ha2. It would be really cool to be able to run the Q5 straight out of an iPhone with only one cable. Otherwise, only way would be to use a camera connecting kit cable, and that is rather cumbersome.
> 
> Apple was saying the other day that one of the largest markets for iPhones is actually China, so the potential market might be quite big for an apple MFI certified amp/dac. Is this something you might consider?


 
 I wonder how Apple's market share even exists in China, considering that iphones are pretty expensive.


----------



## Sam21

Add LCD + EQ just like E17, Add pre - amp out. then you have a unique product that no one has ever made.


----------



## x RELIC x

nmatheis said:


> RedJohn456: I swear Fiio already announced a micro USB -> Lightning cable that does just what you're talking about. If they do, it'll save us iPhone users money and cable overload. Will try to find a link.




Or this when its back in stock. The current price is inaccurate until stock comes in. Regularly around $70 I believe.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?campid=5337413452&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FPure-Solid-Silver-Lightning-to-Chord-Hugo-interconnect-cable-Iphone-5-6-%2F171952447720%3Fhash%3Ditem28092a20e8%3Ag%3ArsoAAOSw9r1WCmub


----------



## goodyfresh

sam21 said:


> Add LCD + EQ just like E17, Add pre - amp out. then you have a unique product that no one has ever made.


 

_*+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*_
  
 That being said, DIGITAL equalization is a big no-no because DSP degrades sound quality, and this is a product that is striving to get the absolute true hi-fi level of sound.  The type of EQ I'd add would be a three-level selectable bass-boost (neutral, subtly boosted, notably boosted) switch and three-level-selectable treble boost switch ANALOG equalizer switches actually on the physical body of the device itself.  Then, if people WANT a more detailed EQ, add the option of a fifteen-band or so parametric equalizer DSP displayed on a LCD screen which the user can turn on or off if they want it.  But definitely be sure to have the analog EQ switches.  Fiio has had analog bass-boost switches on portable amps in the past, and those are always great to have!  Having one for bass, with several different levels, and one for treble would be even better!


----------



## RedJohn456

x relic x said:


> Or this when its back in stock. The current price is inaccurate until stock comes in. Regularly around $70 I believe.
> 
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?campid=5337413452&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FPure-Solid-Silver-Lightning-to-Chord-Hugo-interconnect-cable-Iphone-5-6-%2F171952447720%3Fhash%3Ditem28092a20e8%3Ag%3ArsoAAOSw9r1WCmub


 

 Is it only about the wire and not the device itself? I thought only apple mfi certified devices can get direct access to the dac?


----------



## RedJohn456

nmatheis said:


> @RedJohn456: I swear Fiio already announced a micro USB -> Lightning cable that does just what you're talking about. If they do, it'll save us iPhone users money and cable overload. Will try to find a link.


 

 would love to see a link to it if you can find it


----------



## x RELIC x

redjohn456 said:


> Is it only about the wire and not the device itself? I thought only apple mfi certified devices can get direct access to the dac?




It's supposed to have the mfi chip inside which is why it's so pricey. This is so you do not need the CCK in the chain. I might get one unless FiiO releases one soon-ish.


----------



## RedJohn456

x relic x said:


> It's supposed to have the mfi chip inside which is why it's so pricey. This is so you do not need the CCK in the chain. I might get one unless FiiO releases one soon-ish.


 

 Just to clarify, mfi chip inside what? cable or device? Sorry for being dense, I can't believe i had it all wrong lol. just making sure I am getting this right.
  
 with the correct cable, you can use any amp/dac with an iPhone? Say you want to use the E17 as a dac, one of these cables is all you need? Here I thought it was all in the device


----------



## x RELIC x

redjohn456 said:


> Just to clarify, mfi chip inside what? cable or device? Sorry for being dense, I can't believe i had it all wrong lol. just making sure I am getting this right.
> 
> with the correct cable, you can use any amp/dac with an iPhone? Say you want to use the E17 as a dac, one of these cables is all you need? Here I thought it was all in the device




Haha, it can get confusing. That cable is supposed to be able to use the Lightning connector from an iDevice to a micro USB input of the Hugo. They accomplish this by putting the mfi chip in one of the ends of the cable, which is what makes the Apple CCK so 'special' for outputting the digital signal from the iDevices. I'm guessing it would work with anything that can accept a digital signal from micro USB. Caveat....... I'm guessing it will work with anything, but I don't know for sure. Don't see why not though.

Edit: To be clear the mfi chip is there to tell the iDevice that it's ok to pass along the digital signal.


----------



## RedJohn456

x relic x said:


> Haha, it can get confusing. That cable is supposed to be able to use the Lightning connector from an iDevice to a micro USB input of the Hugo. They accomplish this by putting the mfi chip in one of the ends of the cable, which is what makes the Apple CCK so 'special' for outputting the digital signal from the iDevices. I'm guessing it would work with anything that can accept a digital signal from micro USB. Caveat....... I'm guessing it will work with anything, but I don't know for sure. Don't see why not though.
> 
> Edit: To be clear the mfi chip is there to tell the iDevice that it's ok to pass along the digital signal.


 

 Sorry to take the thread OT, thanks for explaining, this makes a lot more sense now. Means I might be getting an iPod touch in the future when the Q5 comes out


----------



## WitzyZed

redjohn456 said:


> Sorry to take the thread OT, thanks for explaining, this makes a lot more sense now. Means I might be getting an iPod touch in the future when the Q5 comes out



Would you even need a cable though?
We're talking about an airplay capable device, here.


----------



## x RELIC x

witzyzed said:


> Would you even need a cable though?
> We're talking about an airplay capable device, here.




Simply that not everyone wants to connect with a smartphone or otherwise wifi capable device. Different use scenarios.


----------



## XERO1




----------



## WitzyZed

x relic x said:


> Simply that not everyone wants to connect with a smartphone or otherwise wifi capable device. Different use scenarios.



Oh definitely, I get why that might be the case.
I should have been specific in saying my comment was about using an iPod Touch & the Q5. In that case paying $70 or waiting for FiiO's mfi enabled cable might not be totally necessary. You have connectivity right away.


----------



## Audio-Phile

I really need this thing if it can put decent power into 150 ohms, I need something portable for my HD700s, sounds like the HA-2 might be a bit weak and there seems to be not many quality, portable options for higher-impedance headphones at decent price levels if you need amp/dac.


----------



## WitzyZed

audio-phile said:


> I really need this thing if it can put decent power into 150 ohms, I need something portable for my HD700s, sounds like the HA-2 might be a bit weak and there seems to be not many quality, portable options for higher-impedance headphones at decent price levels if you need amp/dac.



The amp modules are same as X7, so there will be an iem, mid output, high output, & balanced amp module. Sold separately.


----------



## maikuirock

the new iteration of the Bifrost (non MultliBit) includes the 4490 now. CC:Sam21


----------



## Andi Lam

how loud is the x7? I use a MI NOTE + E11K at the moment with M80 or EX1, would I need a a external amp for the X7 to get the same power?


----------



## Dobrescu George

andi lam said:


> how loud is the x7? I use a MI NOTE + E11K at the moment with M80 or EX1, would I need a a external amp for the X7 to get the same power?


 
 no, totally not... X7 costs like 700$... I don't think that your current setup is in the same league


----------



## Andi Lam

dobrescu george said:


> no, totally not... X7 costs like 700$... I don't think that your current setup is in the same league


 

 the X7 is like 650 USD and My Set up is like 480 USD but thats not the point! I currently have a LG V10 as well, The point is I use spotify and dont wanna carry a dac/amp on top of a DAP, hence I wanna know what power I will get from a X7. I want to move to a android based DAP hence I am lazy to plug a usb in to my DAP or I could just carry on using my AK240. The reason I wanted to ask about the x7 was because I wanna buy a new setup maybe a x7, oppa ha2 or even a Chord mojo! so back to the original how loud is the x7? I use a MI NOTE + E11K at the moment with M80 or EX1, would I need a a external amp for the X7 to get the same power?


----------



## x RELIC x

andi lam said:


> the X7 is like 650 USD and My Set up is like 480 USD but thats not the point! I currently have a LG V10 as well, The point is I use spotify and dont wanna carry a dac/amp on top of a DAP, hence I wanna know what power I will get from a X7. I want to move to a android based DAP hence I am lazy to plug a usb in to my DAP or I could just carry on using my AK240. The reason I wanted to ask about the x7 was because I wanna buy a new setup maybe a x7, oppa ha2 or even a Chord mojo! so back to the original how loud is the x7? I use a MI NOTE + E11K at the moment with M80 or EX1, would I need a a external amp for the X7 to get the same power?




The X7 has swappable amp modules so they will determine the power output. The amp module that ships with the unit is the IEM module which has a power output of 100mW. When testing the preview tour unit I found it easily powerful enough for IEMs and efficient headphones. The sound is amazing. For more power you need to wait for the other amp modules to be released.

The Mojo is extremely quiet for IEMs and can drive full sized headphones up to 800 Ohms very well. It's a very good unit as well. You should check out the X7 thread and the Mojo thread for more information as this is the Q5 thread.


----------



## Andi Lam

x relic x said:


> The X7 has swappable amp modules so they will determine the power output. The amp module that ships with the unit is the IEM module which has a power output of 100mW. When testing the preview tour unit I found it easily powerful enough for IEMs and efficient headphones. The sound is amazing. For more power you need to wait for the other amp modules to be released.
> 
> The Mojo is extremely quiet for IEMs and can drive full sized headphones up to 800 Ohms very well. It's a very good unit as well. You should check out the X7 thread and the Mojo thread for more information as this is the Q5 thread.


 

 Relic thanks for your help, I am really grateful. I am the type that tends to buy products and then realize they don't preform as well as I like and end up wasting money  no with my kid going to public school next year I am having to think wisely lol!


----------



## Andi Lam

dobrescu george said:


> no, totally not... X7 costs like 700$... I don't think that your current setup is in the same league


 
 output
  
 A3 E11K 270 mW (32 Ω/THD+N＜1%)
  
 X7 100 mW(32Ω/1 kHz)
  
 hmm?


----------



## earfonia

andi lam said:


> how loud is the x7? I use a MI NOTE + E11K at the moment with M80 or EX1, would I need a a external amp for the X7 to get the same power?


 
  
 For IEM, loudness is more from voltage output rather than power in watt.
 Fiio X7 maximum voltage output:
 Low gain: 0.9 Vrms
 High gain: 1.8 Vrms
 That should be loud enough for IEMs and easy to drive headphones. So depend on the headphones and earphones you are going to use with it.
  
  
 Maximum output voltage at High gain:

  
  
 Maximum output voltage at Low gain:


----------



## Andi Lam

when can we expect the q5 to land?


----------



## WCDchee

earfonia said:


> For IEM, loudness is more from voltage output rather than power in watt.
> Fiio X7 maximum voltage output:
> Low gain: 0.9 Vrms
> High gain: 1.8 Vrms
> ...




You can't actually look at them in isolation, power, voltage, they're all part of the equation.

I think the real problem is that people generally don't realise just how little power is actually needed, and how it's often gain that they mix it up with. Take the typical IEM at 16 ohms and 102db sensitivity, we need 0.126v or 0.001W to drive the iem at 102db which is pretty damn loud. Even the hifiman he-1000, which people think need watts of power, actually only need 0.016W to drive at 102db, or 0.75V.


----------



## Dobrescu George

andi lam said:


> output
> 
> A3 E11K 270 mW (32 Ω/THD+N＜1%)
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry for the late response. RAW power does not mean anything, as numbers do not mean anything when it comes to how something actually performs. 
  
 I can only say, if you compare the sound of E11 and X7, X7 is much better, if you compare X7 and AK240, it is up to you to tell which is better, because I had not heared AK240. 
  
 About raw numbers, as @x RELIC x stated, X7 comes with more modules, same modules as Q5, and one of these modules are intended for high power driving, you will not miss power, but I am kinda wondering, why are you having an ak240 and EX1 as IEMs? I listened to EX1, and... they are worth a lot for their price, they are even good up to being better than IEMs at 500$ price point (tested) but they are not better than IE800, or AKG k3003 or dunu dn2000j, or many others..... 
  
 I could advice you to also get better headphones, but X7 as a device is wonderful! amazing really. If I ever will have the chance, I will compare with ak240, but I consider X7 a very worthy end game DAP.


----------



## Andi Lam

hmm look like I will wait for the q5, I really wanna get me one of em!


----------



## Dobrescu George

andi lam said:


> hmm look like I will wait for the q5, I really wanna get me one of em!


 
 I show the same interest!
  
 That if I do not end getting X7 before, as it was the best DAP I ever hold in hand
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now if only Fiio could get into making over the ear headphones, or make their own version of dunu dn2000j (In Romania there is Fiio but no Dunu importer)


----------



## Andi Lam

dobrescu george said:


> I show the same interest!
> 
> That if I do not end getting X7 before, as it was the best DAP I ever hold in hand
> 
> ...


 

 I heard that the x7's battery drains on WIFI, which is no good cos I listen to spotify 75% of the time. So I think I will wait for the Q5, as for headphones I am ok using my v-moda M80 as my genre is 90% R&B.


----------



## Dobrescu George

andi lam said:


> I heard that the x7's battery drains on WIFI, which is no good cos I listen to spotify 75% of the time. So I think I will wait for the Q5, as for headphones I am ok using my v-moda M80 as my genre is 90% R&B.


 
 I think that X7's battery could be helped a little. But, firmware rvisions and future generations of x7 would probably be even better.
  
 The actual x7, as it is is an end game DAP, but indeed, if you use wifi and listen over it, you might have a little less battery than you want.


----------



## RedJohn456

andi lam said:


> I heard that the x7's battery drains on WIFI, which is no good cos I listen to spotify 75% of the time. So I think I will wait for the Q5, as for headphones I am ok using my v-moda M80 as my genre is 90% R&B.


 

 Battery life is getting better for me with the various updates (am installing one right now actually lol). The battery life isn't the best but its definitely not as bad as its made out to be. I use it a LOT for spotify. Will be adding the Bandcamp app once I can find the latest APK for it.


----------



## earfonia

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new DAC/AMP , it is our flagship DAC/AMP and there are some new features will be added as below, as usual, waiting for your feedback so we can make the best for your guys.
> 
> 1, First Dual DAC in our line ups. the DAC has not decided yet, maybe dual 1792A or ESS9018K2M or ESS9018 but we are worry about the power consume.
> ...


 
  
 Hi James, any progress you could share on Q5? 
 Would you kindly consider AKM AK4490 DAC chip for Q5?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Dobrescu George

I think I might be more interested in q5 than x7 at the moment because it might come at a lower price, and hold the same or better SQ, depending on what DAC Fiio decides to implement.


----------



## WitzyZed

earfonia said:


> Hi James, any progress you could share on Q5?
> Would you kindly consider AKM AK4490 DAC chip for Q5?
> 
> Thanks!



I thought the akm4490 was confirmed.


----------



## TheoS53

Out of curiosity, what amp module will the Q5 be using? I'm currently using the E18,and planning on getting the E12A to improve on the amp side of things.... But this Q5 has me wondering if I shouldn't maybe wait a little. 

Something else I've been wondering, would it be possible to replace the DAC in the E18 with an ESS model?


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> Out of curiosity, what amp module will the Q5 be using? I'm currently using the E18,and planning on getting the E12A to improve on the amp side of things.... But this Q5 has me wondering if I shouldn't maybe wait a little.
> 
> Something else I've been wondering, would it be possible to replace the DAC in the E18 with an ESS model?


 
  
 Q5 will be able to use all modules that X7, If you are asking what modules it comes with by default, that is not yet known, maybe the IEM module, so the same amp stage as E12A.


----------



## WitzyZed

dobrescu george said:


> Q5 will be able to use all modules that X7, If you are asking what modules it comes with by default, that is not yet known, maybe the IEM module, so the same amp stage as E12A.



The medium power module uses the Muses02, not the IEM.


----------



## Dobrescu George

witzyzed said:


> The medium power module uses the Muses02, not the IEM.


 
 I had no ideea they changed it. 
  
 The last time I read X7 thread (the amp modules are the same) it was stated that it would come with the IEM module by default and it would be using muses02 op-amps. 
  
 Then I am really curious what op-amps the other modules will be using, as I have high hopes that Q5 might end up being in my collection.


----------



## TheoS53

dobrescu george said:


> I had no ideea they changed it.
> 
> The last time I read X7 thread (the amp modules are the same) it was stated that it would come with the IEM module by default and it would be using muses02 op-amps.
> 
> Then I am really curious what op-amps the other modules will be using, as I have high hopes that Q5 might end up being in my collection.




Yup this confused me as well, as I assumed that the IEM module would essentially be an E12A


----------



## WitzyZed

Quoting on mobile is hard...here's a screenshot!


----------



## Dobrescu George

witzyzed said:


> Quoting on mobile is hard...here's a screenshot!


 
 Thanks!
  
 This makes me wonder what Op-amps does IEM module use? 
  
 Also this states that they are going to market muses02 module differently, though I do not understand why. 
  
 Another thing that leaves an itch is if the high power will be dead silent, because that would be so sweet.


----------



## WitzyZed

dobrescu george said:


> Thanks!
> 
> This makes me wonder what Op-amps does IEM module use?
> 
> ...



Given that the E12A is dead silent, but honestly a bit too powerful for IEM's, they billed it in this way.
With 32-34 ohm headphones, I can get to around 12 o clock on the dial but past 1 o clock it's too loud.
On the X7 thread recently I thought I saw someone with a picture of the chips inside the IEM module...


----------



## Shenook

vartan said:


> Dual ESS9018 will be nice!




I would think with the number of audio channels on the ess chip a second is simply a waste of space time and money


----------



## Eudis

So can I expect this to run the likes of HE400I or mad dogs? Just curious.


----------



## Dobrescu George

eudis said:


> So can I expect this to run the likes of HE400I or mad dogs? Just curious.


 
 Yes?
  
 It has the basic hardware of Fiio X7, minus the player part. You should look into X7 as well. Basically, there will be a high power module, and it should be able to drive even harder to drive things.


----------



## Shenook

dobrescu george said:


> Yes?
> 
> It has the basic hardware of Fiio X7, minus the player part. You should look into X7 as well. Basically, there will be a high power module, and it should be able to drive even harder to drive things.





If i am not mistaken they are similar minus the player with one key exception... Completely different dac chips?


----------



## Dobrescu George

shenook said:


> dobrescu george said:
> 
> 
> > Yes?
> ...


 
 I remember that it might include an ESS9018 (which is actually one of the best high end DACs in the world). 
  
 Even an ESS9018K2m should suffice any day.


----------



## Shenook

dobrescu george said:


> I remember that it might include an ESS9018 (which is actually one of the best high end DACs in the world).
> 
> Even an ESS9018K2m should suffice any day.




Dual akm4490s have been confirmed... Ess dac old hat now for high end stuff... Phones even have es9018 dacs now... Ie. Lgv10.. The akm4490 is in the astell&kern 380.. If you look at the specs this is high end quality for mid range cost.


----------



## Stanley chin

Thicker size is still fine!but what we need pure great sound and long lasting battery!hope will be es9018 and not the es9018k2m.Hope it can sound more powerful and clean than ibasso d14 and creative sound blaster e5!


----------



## Stanley chin

The x7 dap player sound not enough powerful!the power rms was too low!


----------



## Shenook

stanley chin said:


> The x7 dap player sound not enough powerful!the power rms was too low!




Out of curiosity which iem or headphones are you running?? Also which amp module do you have for that x7?


----------



## WitzyZed

Pretty sure anyone talking X7 right now only has IEM module. Medium class is aimed at late february release.


----------



## RedJohn456

stanley chin said:


> The x7 dap player sound not enough powerful!the power rms was too low!


 

 hard to qualify that statement without explaining which headphone you were listening to. The X7 has a lot of power for me, but then again I am not trying to run 300 ohm+ full size cans. So its all relative.


----------



## TheoS53

Any further updates from Fiio about the Q5? Really looking forward to seeing what this device is capable of


----------



## Deftone

1. Use dual akm4490s

2. Would prefer if there wasn't modules for amp

3. drop Wi-Fi.


----------



## JamesFiiO

updated some new information in the page 1.


----------



## JamesFiiO

deftone said:


> 1. Use dual akm4490s
> 
> 2. Would prefer if there wasn't modules for amp
> 
> 3. drop Wi-Fi.


 
  
  
 why do you need non-amp module ?


----------



## JamesFiiO

theos53 said:


> Any further updates from Fiio about the Q5? Really looking forward to seeing what this device is capable of


 
  
 sorry, the X7 spent our too many resource but we hope we can finish Q5 in 2016.


----------



## RebeccaSugar

jamesfiio said:


> sorry, the X7 spent our too many resource but we hope we can finish Q5 in 2016.


 
  
 It's okay, you can't rush perfection.
  
 Take your time, guys.
  
  
 I love you.


----------



## RedJohn456

jamesfiio said:


> sorry, the X7 spent our too many resource but we hope we can finish Q5 in 2016.


 

 Looking forward to it! Will buy it as soon as its available for sure


----------



## balek

Can't wait for it.
Bravo Fiio !

Trimis de pe al meu SM-N9005 folosind Tapatalk


----------



## JamesFiiO

just posted the final design of Q5.


----------



## TheoS53

jamesfiio said:


> just posted the final design of Q5.


 
 Looking really nice.

 i think it would also be pretty cool if you guys could design it in such a way that would allow the attachment of some kind of "blanking" module, so that the user doesn't HAVE to have an amp module attached if he/she only wants to use the Q5 as a DAC...could possibly also reduce the footprint


----------



## JamesFiiO

theos53 said:


> Looking really nice.
> 
> i think it would also be pretty cool if you guys could design it in such a way that would allow the attachment of some kind of "blanking" module, so that the user doesn't HAVE to have an amp module attached if he/she only wants to use the Q5 as a DAC...could possibly also reduce the footprint


 
  
 yes, we already  design a " blanking " module. 
  
 BTW, the Q5 will be deliveried without any amp module so people can choose the amp they want.


----------



## TheoS53

jamesfiio said:


> yes, we already  design a " blanking " module.
> 
> BTW, the Q5 will be deliveried without any amp module so people can choose the amp they want.


 
 I think that would be a pretty smart move.

 Is there any indication of when the Q5 might be available? The reason I ask is because I'm currently looking at getting a DAC for my desktop...but it MUST have an optical input as well so that I can easily switch between my PlayStation and desktop. So far the Schiit Modi 2 Uber seems like my best option (especially that you can physically select between different inputs, as opposed to having to disconnect them).
 I'd much prefer to buy another Fiio product though


----------



## JamesFiiO

theos53 said:


> I think that would be a pretty smart move.
> 
> Is there any indication of when the Q5 might be available? The reason I ask is because I'm currently looking at getting a DAC for my desktop...but it MUST have an optical input as well so that I can easily switch between my PlayStation and desktop. So far the Schiit Modi 2 Uber seems like my best option (especially that you can physically select between different inputs, as opposed to having to disconnect them).
> I'd much prefer to buy another Fiio product though


 
  
 the ETA is before X'mas


----------



## Shenook

Ok akm 4490, option to be dac only and aptx option to be amped and optical line in. 

James just take my money... I will take 2 please.


----------



## John Culter

James, do you think your engineers will be able to implement the digital USB DAC volume control from the host (OSX / Win) for this amazing DAC/AMP?
 Some DAPs like AK240 or Ibasso DX80 works great, also some DAC/AMPs like Creative Sound Blaster X5 works.
 But the USB volume control for X5 / X7 is unfortunately not working ;(
 Sound quality from this AMP and its DACs will be likely very good so this will be great for use as external soundcard for a lot of users for their computers. Thanks for any info!


----------



## HiFiChris

As sort of a Sabre fanboy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am not 100% happy with the move to AKM (which often tend to be rather on the smooth, "analogue" side), but if implementation is done well, I hope that the final sound will be neutral, transparent and detailed.
  

 Btw, do you have any information about the amount of volume steps, attenuation size per step in dB and the gain settings, @JamesFiiO?


----------



## JamesFiiO

john culter said:


> James, do you think your engineers will be able to implement the digital USB DAC volume control from the host (OSX / Win) for this amazing DAC/AMP?
> Some DAPs like AK240 or Ibasso DX80 works great, also some DAC/AMPs like Creative Sound Blaster X5 works.
> But the USB volume control for X5 / X7 is unfortunately not working ;(
> Sound quality from this AMP and its DACs will be likely very good so this will be great for use as external soundcard for a lot of users for their computers. Thanks for any info!


 
  
 Q5 will used XMOS USB receiver which is included in AK240, so I guess it should work as AK240.


----------



## JamesFiiO

hifichris said:


> As sort of a Sabre fanboy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 should be 0.5dB if it is necessary. gain settings is two or three.


----------



## HiFiChris

jamesfiio said:


> should be 0.5dB if it is necessary. gain settings is two or three.


 
  
 0.5 db for *every *step all over the whole attenuation range would be really nice. 
  
 Any information about how many attenuation steps will be there?

 Three gain settings would be excellent. My suggestion: one negative gain (at least -15 dB or even lower for very sensitive IEMs) setting, one zero gain setting and one positive gain setting.


----------



## violencer

will it work with K5?


----------



## JamesFiiO

violencer said:


> will it work with K5?


 
  
  
 yes,


----------



## John Culter

jamesfiio said:


> Q5 will used XMOS USB receiver which is included in AK240, so I guess it should work as AK240.


 

 These are great news!!! Looking forward to it. Q5 will have a big potential for the music producers on the go!
  
 BTW this will be implemented? "8, New, maybe support APT-X bluetooth receiver" .. (APT-X works perfectly in the Creative Soundblaster X5 DAC/AMP)


----------



## Deftone

Dual AKM4490! 
  
@JamesFiiO are you 100% on using blue LEDs? Amber or white LEDs are much nicer on hifi equipment.
  
 i am still waiting for the day when FiiO make a portable tube amp.


----------



## JamesFiiO

deftone said:


> Dual AKM4490!
> 
> @JamesFiiO are you 100% on using blue LEDs? Amber or white LEDs are much nicer on hifi equipment.
> 
> i am still waiting for the day when FiiO make a portable tube amp.


 
  
  
 we will consider the color of the LEDs again when the engineer sample is ready.


----------



## sunny25

How about changeable LED color ?


----------



## violencer

From my user experience, usually white color uses to indicate device active state (turned on or for any other general status). Red (or green) for power and blue for connection. Just saying that blue is OK for connection status, however I agree that white could look better with CNC Aluminium


----------



## Deftone

jamesfiio said:


> we will consider the color of the LEDs again when the engineer sample is ready.




Thank you James, blue is very commonly used and it would be nice to see a change.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yeah, Most TN panels have too much blue anyways, using a different color patter might actually be nice. At least make it blue aqua turquoise something something, instead of pure blue.


----------



## shuto77

Hey, everyone. I just did a search on "launch" and "release" and nothing came up. What's the expected launch and price-point expected to be for this? Is this more of an Oppo HA-2 or a Chord Hugo competitor? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Shenook

shuto77 said:


> Hey, everyone. I just did a search on "launch" and "release" and nothing came up. What's the expected launch and price-point expected to be for this? Is this more of an Oppo HA-2 or a Chord Hugo competitor?
> 
> Thanks!




I would expect a $299-$399 pricepoint... Based on what i read likely around Thansksiving... Again just speculation on my part based on responses of others and the vendor.


----------



## shuto77

shenook said:


> I would expect a $299-$399 pricepoint... Based on what i read likely around Thansksiving... Again just speculation on my part based on responses of others and the vendor.


 
 Thanks for the info. That puts it squarely in competition with the Oppo, which I have, and like quite a bit.  
  
 The problem with the Oppp is that the otg cable is on the botton of the unit, and the power/volume knob is at the top. Putting it in your pocket puts strain on the microUSB ports.
  
 I have to see how Fiio addressed this concern. The swappable amp modules do make it appealing, so that you could upgrade it in the future. 
  
 Do you know when they're planning to release this?


----------



## TheoS53

I second the idea for white LEDs. Actually, a combo of white and amber could look pretty darn sweet


----------



## athlon7750

Q5+K5 would be a great desktop combo.


----------



## JamesFiiO

shuto77 said:


> Thanks for the info. That puts it squarely in competition with the Oppo, which I have, and like quite a bit.
> 
> The problem with the Oppp is that the otg cable is on the botton of the unit, and the power/volume knob is at the top. Putting it in your pocket puts strain on the microUSB ports.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 this is a problem cause the volume knob is on the top but the headphone socket is on the botton too. but a bluetooth remote control may solve the problem if you want to do that.


----------



## shuto77

jamesfiio said:


> this is a problem cause the volume knob is on the top but the headphone socket is on the botton too. but a bluetooth remote control may solve the problem if you want to do that.




Hi James-

Thanks for addressing my question, and thanks for being so active in the community!

Do you know when you'll be adding the ability to download music from apps such as Tidal onto an SD card with the X7? That's the only thing preventing me from keeping the one I purchased. 

Also, do you have an eta and price on the amp upgrade modules? 

This would be my fifth Fiio product, and I've always been impressed with their price-to-performance ratio and your pursuit of continual improvement!


----------



## JamesFiiO

shuto77 said:


> Hi James-
> 
> Thanks for addressing my question, and thanks for being so active in the community!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 yes, we are working in this and I hope we can solve this issue after our holidays.


----------



## DW75

Being a current E11K and E12 owner, I would love to have the opportunity to be part of a test group to give a genuine and honest review of the Q5. I am really looking forward to this DAC/AMP combo release. The specs so far are impressive to say the least.


----------



## shuto77

Has anyone gotten a prototype yet? I'd love to see a comparison to the Oppo HA-2 and Chord Mojo.


----------



## JamesFiiO

shuto77 said:


> Has anyone gotten a prototype yet? I'd love to see a comparison to the Oppo HA-2 and Chord Mojo.


 
  
 Not prototype now.


----------



## shuto77

jamesfiio said:


> Not prototype now.


 
 James, I love how you're always there to answer our questions and how you legitimately take the community's feedback seriously. I'm glad to see your success the last few years.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## zzffnn

James,

I suggest that you rethink about skipping the Wifi (DLNA/Airplay) function. 

That was what attracted my interest for this product. And that could be a big selling point for smartphone users with internet radio (Spotify, ect.). It also cuts some of the cable mess. Without it, I am not sure it stands out that much among competiton. 

I do understand the battery consumption issue though. But then many have portable batttery these days. And maybe you can make the unit longer to take a bigger battery?

Just my two cents.


----------



## shuto77

zzffnn said:


> James,
> 
> I suggest that you rethink about skipping the Wifi (DLNA/Airplay) function.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If the Q5 is going to be $300-400, it needs to do something that the Oppo HA-2 doesn't do. I'm guessing more power would help, as would a 6.3mm connection for power-hungry headphones. 
  
 The competion in the $300-$600 dac/amp space is brutal right now with the Oppo on one end and the Chord Hugo on the other. Go hard or go home!
  
 Just my observation.


----------



## ClieOS

shuto77 said:


> If the Q5 is going to be $300-400, it needs to do something that the Oppo HA-2 doesn't do. I'm guessing more power would help, as would a 6.3mm connection for power-hungry headphones.
> 
> The competion in the $300-$600 dac/amp space is brutal right now with the Oppo on one end and the Chord Hugo on the other. Go hard or go home!
> 
> Just my observation.


 
  
 If it is going to be really portable, 6.3mm jack will just be a waste of space IMO.
  
 Also, I am not seeing OPPO or Hugo as direct competition. The real competition are Mojo and micro iDSD.


----------



## shuto77

clieos said:


> If it is going to be really portable, 6.3mm jack will just be a waste of space IMO.
> 
> Also, I am not seeing OPPO or Hugo as direct competition. The real competition are Mojo and micro iDSD.




You make a good point on the 6.3mm input. 

And yes, I meant the Mojo, not the Hugo. My mistake.


----------



## A2029

Also the Geek Out V2+ as a competitor...


----------



## Dobrescu George

swich401 said:


> Also the Geek Out V2+ as a competitor...


 
  
 I do not think that Geekoutv2 is up to mojo SQ. So main competitor, depending on price would be Chord mojo. Situation in which, Q5 has a chance of winning due to more interesting amp modules, and the fact that it could have darker background. I read on many places that mojo hisses with IEMs.


----------



## mandrake50

dobrescu george said:


> *I do not think that Geekoutv2 is up to mojo SQ*. So main competitor, depending on price would be Chord mojo. Situation in which, Q5 has a chance of winning due to more interesting amp modules, and the fact that it could have darker background. I read on many places that mojo hisses with IEMs.


 

 Hey George, what is this based upon? I have considered purchasing both. The V2, of course, being considerably less money (depending on the flavor). So I am genuinely curious. Have you heard both? Have you done some A/B testing on them? If so I would love to hear your thoughts. If this it too far OT, please PM me.


----------



## WitzyZed

Putting my 2 ¢ in to say if the wifi/DLNA/airplay is dropped I'll be sad to see it go. Kind of the major selling point of this over an x7 being iphone compatible.


----------



## ClieOS

swich401 said:


> Also the Geek Out V2+ as a competitor...


 
  
 I personally don't have a lot of faith in LH Labs. While I can't discuss the source of the information, the discussion I had with some industry insiders reflects badly on LH Labs as there are clear sign that some marketing stunt was carried out to undermine the competition and mislead the consumer. Besides, I think they should have concentrated on getting all their old indigogo projects finished first. That's another story for another time.


----------



## JamesFiiO

zzffnn said:


> James,
> 
> I suggest that you rethink about skipping the Wifi (DLNA/Airplay) function.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 we will see if we can make it in the future when there are solution can solve the power issues.


----------



## Westerborn

zzffnn said:


> James,
> 
> I suggest that you rethink about skipping the Wifi (DLNA/Airplay) function.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm still hoping that we'll see some kind of battery unit as a module. It could sit flush down the back of both the X7 and Q5 a bit like the A&K PAF11. Possibly, maybe. I'm an optimist...


----------



## sandman1990

With reference to the final design posted on page 1, wouldn't it be nicer to swap out the positions of the USB port and the Input Pair button. In that case, a shorter USB cable can be used to interface with a smartphone cause they mostly have USB ports at the bottom.


----------



## JamesFiiO

not sure anyone find the change, but we add another USB socket so people can use the USB input and charging at the same time.


----------



## sandman1990

jamesfiio said:


> not sure anyone find the change, but we add another USB socket so people can use the USB input and charging at the same time.


 

 Oh right. Gotcha. One on the side and one at the bottom of the amp module.
 Problem solved.


----------



## DW75

James, if you guys pair a ESS9018K2M DAC with an AD8620 OPAMP, I am definitely in for buying one of these.


----------



## talan7

Has anyone here heard the Pioneer XPA-700 amp? I am interested in either The Mojo, Oppo HA-2, Pioneer XPA-100, or this FIIO X5 (if it ever comes out).


----------



## Stanley chin

jamesfiio said:


> just posted the final design of Q5.


 
 Can i know where it is?


----------



## Shenook

They are putting AK4490 which is the same DAC as the $3,400 AK380
  
 http://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20150514AK4490iriver_001/
  
 I think we're good.  Sabre 9018's are old hat.  If they were going with a Sabre I'm sure they would be going with the new SABRE ES9038PRO
  
 http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/ess-es9038pro-es-9311-ces-2016/
  
 This ES9038PRO Sabre dac is a 32-bit 8-channel DAC offering what ESS calls the “industry’s highest dynamic range” at 140dB and boasts low total harmonic distortion plus noise (THD+N) at 122dB.
  
 From ESS Site:
  
 Widely recognized as the gold standard in Audio Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC) technology, ESS Technology introduces its professional series flagship – the ES9038PRO SABRE DAC. This first member of the ESS PRO series of SABRE DACs offers industry-leading performance in a 32-bit, 8-channel DAC and features the industry’s highest dynamic range (DNR) of 140dB. The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC sets a new standard for a truly immersive, high-resolution audio (HRA) experience. As high resolution content proliferates through new, high-end music download services, users are looking for equipment that fulfills the promise of a sound experience matching the artist’s original performance. The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC delivers on that promise enabling the highest quality sound possible, regardless of file format or device.
  
*Recognizing and Realizing the Artistic Vision in the Studio and at Home *
 The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC was designed for premium home theater equipment including Blu-ray players, preamplifiers, all-in-one A/V receivers, and more. For serious audiophiles it provides the most immersive listening experience – bringing music to life. Studio environments can leverage the ES9038PRO SABRE DAC’s industry-leading performance for professional audio workstations and other equipment. The PRO series also enables studio professionals to recreate popular signature sound styles, using third party DSP and specialized software packages, while remaining true to the artists’ musical vision.
  
*Revolutionary Performance Levels to Satisfy the Most Discerning Audiophile *
 The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC features ESS’ patented 32-bit HyperStream™ DAC technology with up to 140 dB – industry leading – DNR in mono mode and –122 dB (0.00008%) total harmonic distortion plus noise (THD+N). The HyperStream architecture is responsible for both the outstanding sound quality of ESS SABRE DACs and the extremely low THD+N. A typical competitive, 32-Bit 8-Channel DAC using a delta-sigma architecture features –107 dB THD+N (0.0004%), which when subjected to listening tests does not equal the clarity and sound stage of the ES9038PRO. New hardware features include: • Full-scale manual/auto-gain calibration reduces device-to-device gain error • Programmable volume control ramp-rate with +18 dB option • DoP to DSD decoder minimizes external processing • Total of eight preset filters for maximum design flexibility Programmable functions: • Customizable output configuration: Mono, stereo, 8-channel output in current-mode or voltage-mode based on performance criterion • Customizable filter characteristics: User-programmable filter allowing custom roll-off response • Programmable THD compensation to minimize THD caused by external components
  
*ES9038PRO SABRE DAC Design Advantages *
 This new flagship SABRE DAC was created to integrate seamlessly with the existing, and future, portfolio of ESS headphone amplifiers as well as other audio building block technology. INTRODUCING THE SABRE ES9038PRO The World’s Highest Performance 32-Bit DAC Featuring 140 dB DNR 237 South Hillview Drive, Milpitas, CA 95035 USA | phone: (408) 643-8800 | fax: (408) 643-8801 Copyright © 2016 ESS Technology. All Rights Reserved. About ESS Technology For more than three decades ESS Technology has been on the cutting edge of audio technology. A privately held fabless semiconductor company, ESS Technology designs and markets high-performance analog and HiFi audio devices for mobile, consumer, automotive, and professional audiophile systems. The company was founded in 1984 and today ESS Technology is best known for its SABRE series of high-performance audio products. For more information visit http://www.esstech.com. Significant advancements over previous generations have been made to simplify the implementation of applications software, and debugging time has been significantly reduced to speed time to market and lower overall system costs. The volume level of all internal DACs can be updated with a single software instruction. A first in the industry, the ES9038PRO also enables audio gain- calibration across multiple DACs for high channel count systems. It also has 500 mW power consumption at 192 kHz sampling and 100 MHz MCLK. Advanced power management features enable a low-power idle mode the audio signal is absent.
  







  




   
  

  





©2016 ESS Technology. All Rights Reserved.

 ESS Link:  http://www.esstech.com/index.php?cID=360

 Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/ess-es9038pro-es-9311-ces-2016/#ixzz40aRz8eLn 
  
 I say stick with the AK on this product as there are so many sabre products out there and go with 9038pro on the next fiio x7 generation 2 with the ES9311 regulator maybe?  The ES9038PRO is another 8 channel 32 bit DAC similar to 9018.  Not sure what to do with all those channels on the ES9038PRO unless you bind them together or turn them off.  AK will give us a different sound different from SABRE


----------



## Shenook

stanley chin said:


> Can i know where it is?


 
 page 1?


----------



## Deftone

shuto77 said:


> If the Q5 is going to be $300-400, it needs to do something that the Oppo HA-2 doesn't do. I'm guessing more power would help, as would a 6.3mm connection for power-hungry headphones.
> 
> The competion in the $300-$600 dac/amp space is brutal right now with the Oppo on one end and the Chord Hugo on the other. Go hard or go home!
> 
> Just my observation.


 
  
 +1 
  
 $0 - $400 OPPO HA2
 $400 - $800 Chord MOJO
  
 if the Q5 can match or best the HA2 for $300 then awesome.


----------



## stanleychin

deftone said:


> +1
> 
> $0 - $400 OPPO HA2
> $400 - $800 Chord MOJO
> ...



How about if compaee to the ibasso d14?because this two have coaxial/optical all input but oppo don't have.


----------



## TheoS53

What is the point of having optical input/output on a portable device? For a desktop I can understand, but for a portable form factor it seems a bit unnecessary


----------



## HiFiChris

theos53 said:


> What is the point of having optical input/output on a portable device? For a desktop I can understand, but for a portable form factor it seems a bit unnecessary


 
  
 There are devices with optical output (iRiver H140, AK120, iBasso DX80) and some people (including myself) also like to use their portable gear for stationary use sometimes.


----------



## Brooko

theos53 said:


> What is the point of having optical input/output on a portable device? For a desktop I can understand, but for a portable form factor it seems a bit unnecessary


 
  
 I'm going to a Meet, and I want to test my own music on someone else's source.  If I have one of my FiiOs with a coaxial connection, most of the time it is easy.  That for me has been quite handy sometimes  - especially when I'm travelling.
  
 If I simply use line-out, then I'm not listening to their DAC.  And I know my own recordings very well - hence the importance of listening to my music on their system.
  
 The same thing would go for optical if it was available.


----------



## TheoS53

brooko said:


> I'm going to a Meet, and I want to test my own music on someone else's source.  If I have one of my FiiOs with a coaxial connection, most of the time it is easy.  That for me has been quite handy sometimes  - especially when I'm travelling.
> 
> If I simply use line-out, then I'm not listening to their DAC.  And I know my own recordings very well - hence the importance of listening to my music on their system.
> 
> The same thing would go for optical if it was available.


 
 fair enough, that makes complete sense in your case... but what i'm wondering is, the number of people buying the device, how many actually use those options? Would excluding options for such a (potentially) small user base be worth it in the cost savings? Perhaps the cost savings would be big enough that it would equate to more people buying the device?
 Of course, this opens up a can of worms in terms of all the other components for which compromises could be made in order to achieve what I described above...but i was just wondering about the optical in/out particularly 

 Perhaps FiiO could benefit from taking the same approach as Schiit.....make a unit that doesn't compromise on the actual sound processing components (dac, amp etc), but offer an "upgraded model" which has extra features such as optical in/out, etc.


----------



## Brooko

Interesting concept Theo.  I guess it depends on how much it costs to implement the little extras and whether or not it is ultimately worth having a different model/SKU.  Would be interesting to see James' view on it.


----------



## TheoS53

brooko said:


> Interesting concept Theo.  I guess it depends on how much it costs to implement the little extras and whether or not it is ultimately worth having a different model/SKU.  Would be interesting to see James' view on it.



Well, the concept might already be in place.... 
Seeing as the Q5 wil also have this modular amp section (unless I've missed something), perhaps one of the modules could be designed to have those extra inputs/outputs and bypass the other processing bits and pieces


----------



## Westerborn

I think that FiiO may be a bit wary of having a two tiers of the same product after the reaction to the 'pro' version of the X7. Though sure the modularity of these two units would allow for customisation for those that want an optical compared to those who don't. I know little about how this would go about, but food for thought? (I realise this is utterly repeating @TheoS53, sorry about that).
  
 With the Q5, I'm fairly sure it's going into mass production soon and were there to be any 'pro' version it would likely be in any future Q7 (should the convention follow that way). This is in comparison to the 'pro' X7 which is still ostensibly the same unit but with extra memory and RAM (unless I'm wildly mistaken). It'll be interesting to hear James' take.


----------



## Shenook

westerborn said:


> I think that FiiO may be a bit wary of having a two tiers of the same product after the reaction to the 'pro' version of the X7. Though sure the modularity of these two units would allow for customisation for those that want an optical compared to those who don't. I know little about how this would go about, but food for thought? (I realise this is utterly repeating @TheoS53, sorry about that).
> 
> With the Q5, I'm fairly sure it's going into mass production soon and were there to be any 'pro' version it would likely be in any future Q7 (should the convention follow that way). This is in comparison to the 'pro' X7 which is still ostensibly the same unit but with extra memory and RAM (unless I'm wildly mistaken). It'll be interesting to hear James' take.




Actually it shares a lot but is a completely different dac chip... The q5 is an ak4490 and i believe the x7 is a sabre 9018 variant... Different sound for sure.


----------



## HiFiChris

Is the decision of the AKM final? I thought they were still in the phase where they were about to decide whether to implement the ESS or AKM.
  
 The AKM chip is a nice DAc as well, though. Resolving, detailed, yet smooth at the same time (depending on the implementation of course, and even speaking in general, the differences between various chips are rather extremely minute, too, if properly volume-matched when doing the comparisons).


----------



## John Culter

shenook said:


> Actually it shares a lot but is a completely different dac chip... The q5 is an ak4490 and i believe the x7 is a sabre 9018 variant... Different sound for sure.


 

 Don't want to start any flame war , but IMHO nobody is able to pass the blind test if he is listening to the dual AK4490 or dual ESS9018.
 Major difference in 'signature' is caused by the different amp sections and the rest of the DAC implementation in various devices.
  
 If you put any of those 2015/2016 DACs side by side under the same conditions, difference is mostly just measurable with very sensitive devices, not with human ear at all.


----------



## Shenook

hifichris said:


> Is the decision of the AKM final? I thought they were still in the phase where they were about to decide whether to implement the ESS or AKM.
> 
> The AKM chip is a nice DAc as well, though. Resolving, detailed, yet smooth at the same time (depending on the implementation of course, and even speaking in general, the differences between various chips are rather extremely minute, too, if properly volume-matched when doing the comparisons).




Slight differences for sure at this level... Read page 1.. They updated the initial post to confirm ak4490


----------



## Shenook

john culter said:


> Don't want to start any flame war , but IMHO nobody is able to pass the blind test if he is listening to the dual AK4490 or dual ESS9018.
> Major difference in 'signature' is caused by the different amp sections and the rest of the DAC implementation in various devices.
> 
> If you put any of those 2015/2016 DACs side by side under the same conditions, difference is mostly just measurable with very sensitive devices, not with human ear at all.




Won't argue with you there... I would say sabre is more analytic and ak has better warmth... I have both. And love both depending on gear being used and what i am listening to... Two 9018s in any device is dumb... I think it has 8 channels... Why do you need 2 chips?? No benefit unless you are a battery manufacturer and want to sell larger batteries


----------



## HiFiChris

shenook said:


> john culter said:
> 
> 
> > Don't want to start any flame war , but IMHO nobody is able to pass the blind test if he is listening to the dual AK4490 or dual ESS9018.
> ...


 
  
 They *almost *decided to use the AKM. Doesn't say that the decision is 100% final and cast in stone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Having thought about the whole thing again, it is probably better for FiiO, from a marketing and selling point of view, to implement the AKM converters, so that also more X7 owners are attracted by it due to having DAC chips from different manufacturers ("Oh, they are using an AKM DAC, so it might sound different - I think I'll try that" contrary to "Hey, it's got an ESS chip, like my X7, so I'll pass on this one").


----------



## Shenook

hifichris said:


> They *almost* decided to use the AKM. Doesn't say that the decision is 100% final and cast in stone.
> 
> Having thought about the whole thing again, it is probably better for FiiO, from a marketing and selling point of view, to implement the AKM converters, so that also more X7 owners are attracted by it due to having DAC chips from different manufacturers ("Oh, they are using an AKM DAC, so it might sound different - I think I'll try that" contrary to "Hey, it's got an ESS chip, like my X7, so I'll pass on this one").




I agree with you.. Good to differentiate... I already have multiple devices with sabre dacs including my phone lgv10 and my benchmark dac2 hgc desktop dac... Getting an ak based device is high on my list since i now have the mojo which arrived today... Sadly cannot even listen to it for 10 hours... Says to charge it that long first... I will get the q5 if it is an ak4490 or variant... If it is a sabre then no thanks... Sabre is great but got too many of those.


----------



## m0k4

The balanced amp module that will come will can drive Something like hd650? And it will be trrs like AeK and onkyo or double trs like sony and pono?


----------



## Stanley chin

James,good work,but when will it release.the first thing i will do is compare to the oppo ha-2 if they are almost the same price.


----------



## f4phantom2500

I did a basic search in this thread but didn't see an answer to a question.

Have Fiio considered designing a custom dac/amp in house, like chord did with the mojo? Not sure if the design principles behind their products can be matched, but it would be very interesting to me, especially if it could mean further SQ improvements over 'off the shelf' DACs


----------



## Deftone

well the reason companies go with off the shelf is because its much easier. i dont know if fiio has the years of experience and knowledge for that kind of dac.


----------



## Koolpep

f4phantom2500 said:


> I did a basic search in this thread but didn't see an answer to a question.
> 
> Have Fiio considered designing a custom dac/amp in house, like chord did with the mojo? Not sure if the design principles behind their products can be matched, but it would be very interesting to me, especially if it could mean further SQ improvements over 'off the shelf' DACs


 

 There are not many companies designing DACs -
AKM Semiconductor {Audio ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Analog Devices {Analog-to-Digital Converters/Digital-to-Analog Converter ICs}
Cirrus Logic {Audio A/D and D/A converters, CODEC Manufacturer}
Fairchild Semiconductor {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Holtek Semiconductor Inc. {DAC/ADC ICs}
Intersil {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Linear Technology {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Maxim Integrated Products {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Microchip {Delta-Sigma/Dual Slope/Binary/BCD ADC ICs}
National Semiconductor {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
NEC {D/A Converter for Audio System}
NJR Corporation {ADC-DAC-V/F-F/V Converter ICs}
Renesas Technology America, Inc {D/A R2R, Multiplying, A/D Converter}
Sony {A/D Converter 1:2 De-Multiplex, TTL Output, Sample & Hold, D/A Converter}
Thaler Corp. {A/D Converter Manufacturer. ADC 18-26 bits}
Texas Instruments 'TI' {ADC-DAC-Voltage/Freq Converter IC Manufacturers}
Wavefront Semiconductor {48kHz 24-bit stereo audio ADC, low-cost 24-bit DAC IC Manufacturer}
Wolfson Microelectronics
 {Mono, Multi-channel and Stereo ADCs}
  
 (copied from : http://www.interfacebus.com/Analog_DAC.html )
  
  - and then FCPGA DACs like then ones from Chord. 
  
 This is pretty hard stuff to do and also not a super profitable business. One of the reasons the DACs don't get updated much. I mean the Wolfson 8740 is decades old (and still good).
  
 Anyhow, consolidation is setting in as well. Wolfson is now owned by Cirrus Logic, BurrBrown by Texas Instruments, etc.
  
 It takes an awful lot of brain power to create a DAC equal to the ones available. Making it BETTER, well. That's a different story. And then you can buy the existing DACs for a handful of dollars - so no high return business unless you are in it for the long run. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## f4phantom2500

So based on that i have to assume the dude at chord (whose name escapes me at the moment) is some sort of DAC designing savant, and/or he/they are just ridiculously passionate about it? Interesting. So does that mean Chord makes the only FPGA DACs, and any more specific info on why nobody else makes/has made them? I mean, i get it its difficult, but so difficult that this the sole company that is or has ever been willing/able to produce them?


----------



## x RELIC x

f4phantom2500 said:


> So based on that i have to assume the dude at chord (whose name escapes me at the moment) is some sort of DAC designing savant, and/or he/they are just ridiculously passionate about it? Interesting. So does that mean Chord makes the only FPGA DACs, and any more specific info on why nobody else makes/has made them? I mean, i get it its difficult, but so difficult that this the sole company that is or has ever been willing/able to produce them?




Rob Watts. He does seem to be some kind of programming savant and he and Chord both are ridiculously passionate about their work. It takes a lot of testing and tweaking with the finest measurement devices (over $100K) to get to where they are at. All of Chords DACs are based on an FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array, basically a blank slate chip) design as its the only way to implement his code. There are other manufacturers that use FPGA chips but in different ways, and none of them use Rob Watts / Chord's code (trade secret). It's damned expensive to spend that amount of time writing your own code which is why most companies don't do it. Rob Watts has spent over thirty years getting to the point he is at now with his FPGA code and WTA filter so it's basically his life work. Chord has been fortunate enough to have partnered with him.


----------



## f4phantom2500

I mean companies like TI have billions of dollars in r&d, is there any way that any DAC manufacturers can catch up? Seems to me it is perhaps a matter of companies like that not feeling motivated enough/not aware enough to pursue it. And while they have the resources but no desire, perhaps the smaller boutique DAP manufacturers like fiio have the desire but no resources. Sounds like enough demand from these manufacturers for a DAC that can go toe to toe with the FPGA would almost be necessary


 Btw, wasnt FPGA a type of chip they (used to?) use in video cards?


----------



## x RELIC x

f4phantom2500 said:


> I mean companies like TI have billions of dollars in r&d, is there any way that any DAC manufacturers can catch up? Seems to me it is perhaps a matter of companies like that not feeling motivated enough/not aware enough to pursue it. And while they have the resources but no desire, perhaps the smaller boutique DAP manufacturers like fiio have the desire but no resources. Sounds like enough demand from these manufacturers for a DAC that can go toe to toe with the FPGA would almost be necessary
> 
> 
> Btw, wasnt FPGA a type of chip they (used to?) use in video cards?




Because profit rules and the mass consumer doesn't care about the differences. Same reason TI left R-2R chips behind.

You can use FPGA chips in anything. They are a blank slate. This is getting way off topic though. I know that FiiO is no where near large enough to implement proprietary DACs for the mass market.

We should get back to the Q5.


----------



## Mackspower

No, no, no . . .  please keep the DLNA function.  Streaming bit-perfect audio should already be the no-brainer standard.

 Let the team work out the interface and control issues.


----------



## f4phantom2500

I at least know that fpga chips are versatile - thats why I mentioned their use in video cards. But what i was trying to allude to is that perhaps there are other, non-dac manufacturers that produce advanced fpga chips already. Perhaps coding and specializing for audio would be a relatively straightforward process for such a firm; perhaps much of the engineering roadblocks have already been passed by such firms, theres just no acknowledgement of it in regards to audio application because nobody is asking about it. But i guess my allusion was too subtle.

And yea, this is still about the Q5. I was just brainstorming to think of a way to make this competitive with the Mojo, SQ wise, because if I just accept your rhetoric at face value, then it simply can not happen, and I dont know if I fully believe that. Maybe you and others are content to discuss other details such as battery life and interface, and thats fine and all, but Im trying to propose ideas that could get the FPGA tech into the hands of a company like fiio, as, based on what youve said, its the ultimate SQ dac, and after all is said and done SQ is my #1 focus on a device like this. Why settle for less when I can get the ultimate in the mojo?

Although, realistically, i expect at best James will read this, maybe find it intriguing, but either not act on it or conclude that, even still, it would be way more work and a longer development time for the Q5 than if they just went with a high quality off the shelf dac. Perhaps fiio may find this kind of option viable for a future project, however. And who knows? Crazier things have happened than an FPGA DAC ending up in the Q5...but i wont hold my breath


----------



## RebeccaSugar

Agr


----------



## x RELIC x

f4phantom2500 said:


> I at least know that fpga chips are versatile - thats why I mentioned their use in video cards. But what i was trying to allude to is that perhaps there are other, non-dac manufacturers that produce advanced fpga chips already. Perhaps coding and specializing for audio would be a relatively straightforward process for such a firm; perhaps much of the engineering roadblocks have already been passed by such firms, theres just no acknowledgement of it in regards to audio application because nobody is asking about it. But i guess my allusion was too subtle.
> 
> And yea, this is still about the Q5. I was just brainstorming to think of a way to make this competitive with the Mojo, SQ wise, because if I just accept your rhetoric at face value, then it simply can not happen, and I dont know if I fully believe that. Maybe you and others are content to discuss other details such as battery life and interface, and thats fine and all, but Im trying to propose ideas that could get the FPGA tech into the hands of a company like fiio, as, based on what youve said, its the ultimate SQ dac, and after all is said and done SQ is my #1 focus on a device like this. Why settle for less when I can get the ultimate in the mojo?
> 
> Although, realistically, i expect at best James will read this, maybe find it intriguing, but either not act on it or conclude that, even still, it would be way more work and a longer development time for the Q5 than if they just went with a high quality off the shelf dac. Perhaps fiio may find this kind of option viable for a future project, however. And who knows? Crazier things have happened than an FPGA DAC ending up in the Q5...but i wont hold my breath




It's not rhetoric. Chord purchases their FPGA chips from Xilinx, and so do a lot of other manufacturers of many other devices (ie., not DACs), and FiiO can to. 

http://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga.html

It doesn't matter who manufactures the chip. It's a dumb device until you add your code to make it do what you want it to do.

The magic happens in the code and the pulse array DACs in Chord's gear, which FiiO does not currently have the expertise or resources to implement. They can pay a boat load of money for 'someone' to write the code but it seems as if Rob Watts is the only one doing it his way and that's it. It's working out well for him and Chord is damned lucky he's on board as the resounding feedback is that he's doing something right. The Mojo is not the best of the bunch. I'd peg that in the Chord Dave category, AGD Master 7, Schiit Yggy, etc, but that's a whole other conversation.

I'm saying you should read a little more and research the facts before thinking it's as easy as just grabbing a chip and hiring someone to code and everything will work out. It take serious expertise and experience in that particular way of programming and testing over and over again to get there, something that has taken him 30 yrs to do. Rob Watts has posted plenty on Head Fi about his approach. If you're interested I suggest you check his profile and read the "All Posts" by him. It's quite informative. 

FiiO is simply not on that path and neither is the Q5. Both the Q5 and Mojo do the same thing from different companies with different approaches at different price points. James is aware of the Mojo, I assure you, and if they are able to get there it would be great for FiiO, I just don't think it's going to happen given FiiO's history and the successful business formula they've got right now. It's quite a risk to go your own route with proprietary tech. Honestly, if you want Mojo quality then purchase a Mojo. If you want great quality from a FiiO device at a lower cost then buy the Q5.


----------



## f4phantom2500

Thanks for the perspective. I still think that the idea that Mr Watts is the sole person capable of producing such a thing is, at least in part, drawn by speculation and presumption. But even if its not quite true, I understand that finding someone else to design it would still be a huge task.

Also, i meant the mojo being the ultimate in an easily pocketable, portable device. Obviously desktop amps will have the potential for greater sophistication than something the size of a pack of smokes that runs on a battery.


----------



## x RELIC x

f4phantom2500 said:


> Thanks for the perspective. *I still think that the idea that Mr Watts is the sole person capable of producing such a thing is*, at least in part, drawn by speculation and presumption. But even if its not quite true, I understand that finding someone else to design it would still be a huge task.
> 
> Also, i meant the mojo being the ultimate in an easily pocketable, portable device. Obviously desktop amps will have the potential for greater sophistication than something the size of a pack of smokes that runs on a battery.




I think you misunderstand me. I never said he was the only one _capable_ of doing this. He is the only one _currently_ doing this (and in his way) and it's taken him years to get here. As I said earlier, there are other manufacturers that also are implementing FPGA chips in their DAC designs, just not in the same way with no where near the same accolades, therefore it's an example of why it's a huge risk for FiiO to do the same.


----------



## f4phantom2500

x relic x said:


> I think you misunderstand me. I never said he was the only one _capable_ of doing this. He is the only one _currently_ doing this (and in his way) and it's taken him years to get here. As I said earlier, there are other manufacturers that also are implementing FPGA chips in their DAC designs, just not in the same way with no where near the same accolades, therefore it's an example of why it's a huge risk for FiiO to do the same.


 
  
  
 Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps someday the technology will proliferate. Seems it's mostly a combination of the right people not being in the right place and/or there's no drive for any capable team to produce it...except at Chord. That was my suspicion, I just wonder how much prodding/pushing it would take from a company/companies like FiiO for the market to respond.


----------



## masterpfa

f4phantom2500 said:


> Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps someday the technology will proliferate. Seems it's mostly a combination of the right people not being in the right place and/or there's no drive for any capable team to produce it...except at Chord. That was my suspicion, I just wonder how much prodding/pushing it would take from a company/companies like FiiO for the market to respond.


 
 If you ever get to see this videos you will see that this is a man who had a genuine interest in electronics he met his business partner John Franks who specialises in Aviation electronics and together with expertise in electronics and audio pursued their quest for audio on a personal basis.
 You may find that most companies especially the larger established companies seek to pursue profit over perfection and I guess in goals that is where Chord as a company differ, IMO and from I have read and heard.
 The gauntlet has been laid down for other companies to do likewise.
  
 EDIT:No need to watch the entire video their early history is discussed within the 1st 5 mins


----------



## Westerborn

I think the thing to take away from this discussion is that FiiO are not Chord. As Relic eloquently pointed out it's the same technology from different perspectives. My personal FiiO experience has been one of an accessible entry to the audiophile world, from E06 to E11k to X1 and beyond; that's the market I believe FiiO is aiming at. Chord on the other hand are a mythical brand that I would love to get my hands on and experience, if only I could afford to. The markets these companies are aiming at are very different. If the cost of hiring someone to code a FPGA chip goes right down then maybe FiiO would be tempted, but then what would separate them from Chord? Considering that the Q5 is likely going to be around the £100-150 mark (being the successor to the E18) then I'm fairly sure there will be endless reasons to buy, regardless of third party chip.


----------



## ClieOS

Chord is an interesting company with a very interesting technology (and if I might add, with a rather odd taste in industry design), but I personally don't think of its portable DAC/amp line as the be-all-end-all of all portable DAC/amp. With the right design, any portable DAC/amp manufacturer that doesn't use a FPGA but rather an off-the-shelf DAC can come out with a portable DAC/amp that is just as good as Chord's offering. So instead of having a wild goose chase over some FPGA technology that one isn't familiar with, it is far wiser to optimize what one does know to the best of what it can be. Even Chord will admit that the FPGA in Mojo is not perfect, or else there won't be the need to use a much higher end (and much pricier) FPGA in Dave. So there are still room for improvement for every manufacturers when it comes to portable DAC/amp, and FPGA is not the only answer to the question.


----------



## f4phantom2500

clieos said:


> Chord is an interesting company with a very interesting technology (and if I might add, with a rather odd taste in industry design), but I personally don't think of its portable DAC/amp line as the be-all-end-all of all portable DAC/amp. With the right design, any portable DAC/amp manufacturer that doesn't use a FPGA but rather an off-the-shelf DAC can come out with a portable DAC/amp that is just as good as Chord's offering. So instead of having a wild goose chase over some FPGA technology that one isn't familiar with, it is far wiser to optimize what one does know to the best of what it can be. Even Chord will admit that the FPGA in Mojo is not perfect, or else there won't be the need to use a much higher end (and much pricier) FPGA in Dave. So there are still room for improvement for every manufacturers when it comes to portable DAC/amp, and FPGA is not the only answer to the question.




That is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping someone would say. I would love for there to be a way for FiiO to make a product competitive with the MoJo SQ-wise. While Chord may come from a different market perspective and design philosophy than FiiO, the simple truth is that Chord is still bringing down the cost of entry to its product line drastically with the MoJo, at a price point that isn't too unreasonable. Hell, FiiO's own X7 is more expensive than the MoJo, showing that these two segments can overlap. And that's why FiiO should strive to equal or best the MoJo with the Q5.


----------



## x RELIC x

In all fairness the X7 sounds fantastic and without very sophisticated measuring equipment you be hard pressed to define the gap in technical capabilities between the X7 and the Mojo. I had both at the same time and the X7 already sounded fantastic, but different at the ears. Some might prefer to listen to the X7, some to the Mojo. That's why I've been saying don't worry about the underlying tech and I don't think it's necessary for FiiO to take the risk to change their formula since they haven't built their success on proprietary tech. FiiO has always offered great sound quality for the price and I'm sure the Q5 will be the same....


----------



## wega03

f4phantom2500 said:


> That is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping someone would say. I would love for there to be a way for FiiO to make a product competitive with the MoJo SQ-wise. While Chord may come from a different market perspective and design philosophy than FiiO, the simple truth is that Chord is still bringing down the cost of entry to its product line drastically with the MoJo, at a price point that isn't too unreasonable. Hell, FiiO's own X7 is more expensive than the MoJo, showing that these two segments can overlap. And that's why FiiO should strive to equal or best the MoJo with the Q5.




Exist another little problem with FPGA, I don't know why but but every FPGA need a different code to do the same thing, the code works depending of the models and brands. Two FPGA of the same brand can't be code in the same way to do the same task,that's why just a few person's really get into it.


----------



## JamesFiiO

sorry we have not start the pcb layout yet because we are waiting the result of the MFi licence . we hope the Q5 can support iDevice and there are news about the iP7 will remove the headphone jack.


----------



## RedJohn456

jamesfiio said:


> sorry we have not start the pcb layout yet because we are waiting the result of the MFi licence . we hope the Q5 can support iDevice and there are news about the iP7 will remove the headphone jack.


 

 Keeping my fingers crossed the Apple grants you the license 
  
 Any idea when you will find out if you got it or not?


----------



## stilleh

Any news?


----------



## FiiO

stilleh said:


> Any news?


 
 Hi stilleh,
  
 Q5 is still not ready now , but we will try our best to release it into market in this year.


----------



## zach8278

@JamesFiiO When the Q5 is released, you can expect a purchase from me!


----------



## FiiO

zach8278 said:


> @JamesFiiO When the Q5 is released, you can expect a purchase from me!


 
 zach8278, Thanks for your supports,Q5 may be released into market at the end of this year if everything goes smoothly. so sorry to keep you waiting .


----------



## Westerborn

Out of wonder, is the Q5 going to come bundled with an amp module like the X7?


----------



## FiiO

westerborn said:


> Out of wonder, is the Q5 going to come bundled with an amp module like the X7?


 
 Yep, Westerborn,Q5 can share the same modules with X7.


----------



## demond

hello everyone, I am FiiO Demond.
 The Q5 design in progress. But we want to make ID a little better.
 Here, I have prepared a new design, The new ID has added a small display, what do you like better.
  
 PS, Q5 will add a USB interface, used to support iPhone and iPad.


----------



## DW75

demond said:


> hello everyone, I am FiiO Demond.
> The Q5 design in progress. But we want to make ID a little better.
> Here, I have prepared a new design, The new ID has added a small display, what do you like better.
> 
> PS, Q5 will add a USB interface, used to support iPhone and iPad.


 
  
 For me, I have to say I love the look of the B2. Without question, this is the best one. I am looking forward to this DAC/AMP combo. Thanks for the update, Demond.


----------



## HiFiChris

demond

How many volume steps will the Q5 have? Please make it 256 steps with 0.5 dB per step.


----------



## demond

the volume will display on the screen, I think it should be able to do more of the steps.
 even to set the volume of the steps of the series...


----------



## TheoS53

I love these designs. Great job fiio! B2 Kinda looks like a dude wearing a tie and suit.. Very classy


----------



## stilleh

I want the B2 looks but I like hardware switches for bass boost and gain :/


----------



## demond

yes, you are right,hardware switches for bass and gain i think will be easy to use.


----------



## A2029

Style B2 for me!!


----------



## Westerborn

I agree, the B2 is pretty dang snazzy. Will there be the 'V' on both sides of the DAC?


----------



## stilleh

westerborn said:


> I agree, the B2 is pretty dang snazzy. Will there be the 'V' on both sides of the DAC?


 
 I hope not. Makes it harder to stack


----------



## sandman1990

Still prefer design A. While the B designs do have a display, design A somehow feels more streamlined to me compared to the odd shapes in the others.


----------



## HiFiChris

I would prefer Design A with a display. That would look neat and classy.


----------



## sledgeharvy

dw75 said:


> For me, I have to say I love the look of the B2. Without question, this is the best one. I am looking forward to this DAC/AMP combo. Thanks for the update, Demond.



I agree, the B2 design looks fantastic. But if A winds up being the final design.. I would complain..


----------



## warrior1975

Would there be any point in adding this to the X7? Using the line out, probably not right?


----------



## trellus

The new designs are gorgeous... one thing I've liked about every product I've purchased is that they look well-designed, are elegant looking, and sturdy.


----------



## demond

warrior1975 said:


> Would there be any point in adding this to the X7? Using the line out, probably not right?


 
 You can use the X7 amp module, if add Q5 to the X7，I don't think it's necessary.
 The solution uses other audio input，PC/iPhone/DAP..


----------



## warrior1975

That's what I was thinking... Just thought that double amping the X7 with this would have been cool. 

As far as the line out to this, would it be the same sound? Very pointless and stupid question but I'm just curious.


----------



## TheoS53

I'm genuinely curious as to how the Q5 would compare to the Mojo. I would absolutely LOVE to see Fiio topple the Mojo.. I've got no hatred whatsoever for Chord.. But a massive Fiio fan


----------



## demond

warrior1975 said:


> That's what I was thinking... Just thought that double amping the X7 with this would have been cool.
> 
> As far as the line out to this, would it be the same sound? Very pointless and stupid question but I'm just curious.


 
 The DAC ability of Q5 will be better than X7.
 The same amp, I think Q5 would be better.


----------



## ngoshawk

B2 looks fabulous, but I like the sleek look of B1/B4 more.


----------



## demond

theos53 said:


> I'm genuinely curious as to how the Q5 would compare to the Mojo. I would absolutely LOVE to see Fiio topple the Mojo.. I've got no hatred whatsoever for Chord.. But a massive Fiio fan


 
 I hope Q5 can be better than any of our old DAC&AMP products.
 Flagship product is not so easy to do.


----------



## warrior1975

theos53 said:


> I'm genuinely curious as to how the Q5 would compare to the Mojo. I would absolutely LOVE to see Fiio topple the Mojo.. I've got no hatred whatsoever for Chord.. But a massive Fiio fan




I feel same way, even though I love my mojo. Plus, only consumer wins of fiio bests the Mojo. 



demond said:


> The DAC ability of Q5 will be better than X7.
> The same amp, I think Q5 would be better.




Really? Are they the same dacs? Did fiio settle on a dac?


----------



## demond

> Really? Are they the same dacs? Did fiio settle on a dac?


 
 We almost decided that we will use 2 AKM4490 DAC chips.


----------



## TheoS53

I speak under correction, but I vaguely remember something about the Q5 having a price point of $600. that's the same price as the Mojo...which means Fiio has a mighty mountain to climb


----------



## jeffhmason

theos53 said:


> I speak under correction, but I vaguely remember something about the Q5 having a price point of $600. that's the same price as the Mojo...which means Fiio has a mighty mountain to climb


 
  
 James said back in post #56 of this thread that the target price was $300, so unless something has changed...


----------



## RedJohn456

demond said:


> We almost decided that we will use 2 AKM4490 DAC chips.


 

 oh, so not the same architecture as X7? Will it support the same amp modules?


----------



## TheoS53

jeffhmason said:


> James said back in post #56 of this thread that the target price was $300, so unless something has changed...




Oh that's fantastic then, thanks for the correction. If it can at least match the Mojo in terms sonics then it'll be great. I'm not too worried about driving power, my main concern is sonic performance. I wonder if it's even possible to match the Mojo with an off the shelf DAC+amp chip combo, or if the only way would be with an FPGA setup


----------



## TheoS53

redjohn456 said:


> oh, so not the same architecture as X7? Will it support the same amp modules?




From what I remember it has been said that it will support the same modules


----------



## x RELIC x

theos53 said:


> Oh that's fantastic then, thanks for the correction. If it can at least match the Mojo in terms sonics then it'll be great. I'm not too worried about driving power, my main concern is sonic performance. I wonder if it's even possible to match the Mojo with an off the shelf DAC+amp chip combo, or if the only way would be with an FPGA setup




The Mojo is much more than just an FPGA chip to run the code Rob has done. It also uses discrete Pulse Array DACs (that he invented) and the discrete analogue section is very clean with extremely good measured performance, plus the battery used is a custom battery specifically made over three years just for the Mojo that packs 14 watt hours.

I love FiiO, and wish them well, but the implementation of the whole system is much more than just FPGA vs off the shelf DAC chip hardware. Sonically I have no doubt that FiiO will produce a good product with the Q5, as they have with most of their lineup. I'm simply pointing out that the Mojo's advantage is the pedigree it comes from, which is the exact opposite of where FiiO has come from. The trickle down tech of Chords products puts the Mojo in a different class on a technical level. 

To be clear, I'm only sharing my knowledge here of what I know of Rob Watts tech (you can read his many informative posts to learn as well). I'm NOT saying one will sound better over the other, no one can at this point.

At the ears each user will have a different opinion and at the end of the day that's what is important. I think it's a waste of time to compare the Q5 on a technical level because it simply won't compete to the Mojo. Let's wait until the Q5 is released and go by sonic impressions. After all, that's what REALLY matters.


----------



## TheoS53

x relic x said:


> The Mojo is much more than just an FPGA chip to run the code Rob has done. It also uses discrete Pulse Array DACs (that he invented) and the discrete analogue section is very clean with extremely good measured performance, plus the battery used is a custom battery specifically made over three years just for the Mojo that packs 14 watt hours.
> 
> I love FiiO, and wish them well, but the implementation of the whole system is much more than just FPGA vs off the shelf DAC chip hardware. Sonically I have no doubt that FiiO will produce a good product with the Q5, as they have with most of their lineup. I'm simply pointing out that the Mojo's advantage is the pedigree it comes from, which is the exact opposite of where FiiO has come from. The trickle down tech of Chords products puts the Mojo in a different class on a technical level.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh no, I'm well aware of the vast technical differences. I'm just wondering if the sonic performance of the Mojo is purely because of the FPGA (and PA DACs etc, as you pointed out) setup, or if (at least theoretically) Fiio would be able to get the exact same performance with their kind of setup in the Q5...know what I mean?


----------



## x RELIC x

theos53 said:


> Oh no, I'm well aware of the vast technical differences. I'm just wondering if the sonic performance of the Mojo is purely because of the FPGA (and PA DACs etc, as you pointed out) setup, or if (at least theoretically) Fiio would be able to get the exact same performance with their kind of setup in the Q5...*know what I mean*?




Yes, I know what you mean. Personally, I don't think so on a _performance_ standpoint (measured performance). Like I said though, sound quality preference is entirely different.


----------



## geokite

Style B1 is my preference, much easier to stack.  Don't like the suit look...
  
 Steve


----------



## demond

geokite said:


> Style B1 is my preference, much easier to stack.  Don't like the suit look...
> 
> Steve


 
 I also try to make changes in the A.
 based on this and add in a small display, it can display the volume, product status,
 then do you think it is necessary?


----------



## HiFiChris

A with a display would be great (in my opinion) and my first choice.


----------



## sandman1990

demond said:


> I also try to make changes in the A.
> based on this and add in a small display, it can display the volume, product status,
> then do you think it is necessary?


 
  
  


hifichris said:


> A with a display would be great (in my opinion) and my first choice.


 

 Yep. Pretty much. A basic OLED display like the one in the E17 would be great.


----------



## springbay

Model A with a small display would be my preferred choice.


----------



## demond

hifichris said:


> A with a display would be great (in my opinion) and my first choice.


 
  


sandman1990 said:


> Yep. Pretty much. A basic OLED display like the one in the E17 would be great.


 
  


springbay said:


> Model A with a small display would be my preferred choice.


 
  
 Use of Bluetooth communication,Q5 connected to the smart phone's APP, use the APP to control Q5, like the Creative E5.
 This design will not use the display, The status of the Q5 can be displayed in the APP. Do you think it will be better or not.


----------



## A2029

Better to keep the Q5 cheaper and focus in sound quality and omit the display. Can be controlled from the phone, computer, etc.


----------



## HiFiChris

demond said:


> Use of Bluetooth communication,Q5 connected to the smart phone's APP, use the APP to control Q5, like the Creative E5.
> This design will not use the display, The status of the Q5 can be displayed in the APP. Do you think it will be better or not.


 
  
 Personally, I don't think this is a good idea. Sure, it is a "modern" way of controlling things, but there are enough situations when I don't want a smartphone nearby to control the device.
  
 In my opinion, a built-in display will be the better and more versatile idea. How about a display *and *the ability to control/monitor the Q5 with a smartphone app?


----------



## springbay

With or without display, I still find the A design the most preferred. Mainly because of the sleek design with fewer edges compared to the others.
 Though, I still think a small display would be a more easy way to operate and understand than indicator lights. Especially in dark environments, when you will not be able to read the text next to each indicator.
 I'm not too keen about using an app to control the unit. But perhaps that is the future, and I need to adapt.


----------



## TheoS53

I too prefer a non-bluetooth version that has a small screen


----------



## sandman1990

demond said:


> Use of Bluetooth communication,Q5 connected to the smart phone's APP, use the APP to control Q5, like the Creative E5. This design will not use the display, The status of the Q5 can be displayed in the APP. Do you think it will be better or not.


 
  


hifichris said:


> Personally, I don't think this is a good idea. Sure, it is a "modern" way of controlling things, but there are enough situations when I don't want a smartphone nearby to control the device.
> 
> In my opinion, an in-built display will be the better and more versatile idea. How about a display *and *the ability to control/monitor the Q5 with a smartphone app?


 
  
 I guess what @HiFiChris suggested is great. Also, if we have to use a separate app to access the full functionality of the device, it would seem a bit selfish (no offence). This would restrict the feature set of the device that is accessible from a different music player application. Again, if this app turns out to be buggy, it would wreck the entire appeal of the device. Plus I don't trust all apps. These days even games want to access your messages, contacts and what not.


----------



## demond

sandman1990 said:


> I guess what @HiFiChris suggested is great. Also, if we have to use a separate app to access the full functionality of the device, it would seem a bit selfish (no offence). This would restrict the feature set of the device that is accessible from a different music player application. Again, if this app turns out to be buggy, it would wreck the entire appeal of the device. Plus I don't trust all apps. These days even games want to access your messages, contacts and what not.


 
 I think, first of all do not use the APP, Q5 still can be very good to meet the various functions of the use: input, output, GAIN, BASS, Bluetooth pairing, volume control, etc.. When you need to make adjustments to the default settings, such as EQ, channel balance, and so on, These features are not commonly used.


----------



## sandman1990

demond said:


> I think, first of all do not use the APP, Q5 still can be very good to meet the various functions of the use: input, output, GAIN, BASS, Bluetooth pairing, volume control, etc.. When you need to make adjustments to the default settings, such as EQ, channel balance, and so on, These features are not commonly used.


 

 Well that is kinda acceptable. But lets say I use it with a PC, then won't we again need a separate app for that too. Then comes another problem. Even if you make a Windows application, Mac OS, GNU/Linux and BSD users will feel left out.


----------



## TheoS53

I personally prefer a no nonsense device, it's job is simple and it does it's job excellently. As I said before, I'd prefer a non-bluetooth device. I see bluetooth as simply being a feature, rather than enhancing the performance of the device. So, keeping that in mind, why not hit 2 birds with 1 stone? I'm not sure if this is technically possible...but seeing as the Q5 is to be modular just like the X7,* why not make a bluetooth module?* That way, people like myself can have a device that is purely for stacking and everything is controlled on the device, and people who wish to use the App over bluetooth can do so with the bluetooth module.


----------



## sandman1990

Personally, I would want the DAC to stay as far as possible from radio interference. So, the idea of an optional bluetooth module would be great.


----------



## WitzyZed

The reason why I was hyped for this device was so I might have an AirPlay enabled dac/amp.
I am now wondering, is this still in the cards?


----------



## TheoS53

witzyzed said:


> The reason why I was hyped for this device was so I might have an AirPlay enabled dac/amp.
> I am now wondering, is this still in the cards?


 
 what would be the point in that?


----------



## WitzyZed

theos53 said:


> what would be the point in that?




From the first post:

5, Maybe supports DLNA and airplay which means it is includes a wifi receiver. I think it is the first portable amp with WIFI input. 

I have close to 500gb of music on my hard drive at home & a $300 dollar device that would let me hear all of it by just airplaying to the Q5 inside my house, is a better bargain than any portable device with removable storage just to do the same.


----------



## TheoS53

witzyzed said:


> From the first post:
> 
> 5, Maybe supports DLNA and airplay which means it is includes a wifi receiver. I think it is the first portable amp with WIFI input.
> 
> I have close to 500gb of music on my hard drive at home & a $300 dollar device that would let me hear all of it by just airplaying to the Q5 inside my house, is a better bargain than any portable device with removable storage just to do the same.


 
 Umm, ok. You realise you can already do that for free, right? Install the Plex app on your phone, and the Plex server app on your computer


----------



## WitzyZed

theos53 said:


> Umm, ok. You realise you can already do that for free, right? Install the Plex app on your phone, and the Plex server app on your computer




I already have an app VOX that I'm in the process of uploading my music to, for bit perfect streaming when I am not at home.

But at home I don't want to be tethered to my phone, which gets pathetic battery life as it is.

What if I was listening at home and all I wanted in my pocket was the Q5?


----------



## TheoS53

So, today I got my hand on a Chord Mojo to do a review. Unfortunately I can't get it to work with my LG G3 for some reason. 

 So for now I'm testing it via my PC. I must say, it does sound really good. Compared to my E18+E12A setup, there is a definite refinement in sound. I'ts not a world altering improvement, but across all frequencies things do sound clearer, more natural. 

 I remember when I got the X7 for a review I was bitterly disappointed with it, but this was because I was expecting the type of change in sound as I hear with the Mojo.

 So, I think for now the ultimate portable setup would probably be the X3ii and Mojo (due to the cost difference between the X3ii and X5ii).

 I'm genuinely, honestly hoping that the Q5 will be a strong competitor to the Mojo (especially at half the price), as I'd hate to have to buy a different phone just to use the Mojo, or even to have to buy the X3ii


----------



## TheoS53

witzyzed said:


> I already have an app VOX that I'm in the process of uploading my music to, for bit perfect streaming when I am not at home.
> 
> But at home I don't want to be tethered to my phone, which gets pathetic battery life as it is.
> 
> What if I was listening at home and all I wanted in my pocket was the Q5?


 
 fair enough, it just seems strange to buy a whole new device in order to do something that your phone can already do (even if it means marginal at best improvement in sound quality)...as airplay doesn't support streaming of anything above 44.1/16bit (without downsampling higher bitrate files) AFAIK.


----------



## WitzyZed

theos53 said:


> fair enough, it just seems strange to buy a whole new device in order to do something that your phone can already do (even if it means marginal at best improvement in sound quality)...as airplay doesn't support streaming of anything above 44.1/16bit (without downsampling higher bitrate files) AFAIK.



Thx for the reminder about Airplay, I actually forgot about that!
I am still interested in this device because I do not own a dedicate DAC for my iMac, & am waiting for FiiO's flagship DAC. Even 16/48 streaming over airplay would be better than bluetooth (unless we get apt-x?). Even if wireless doesn't happen for me, the amp modules & the dual akm 4490s are enough to keep me waiting.


----------



## earfonia

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new DAC/AMP , it is our flagship DAC/AMP and there are some new features will be added as below, as usual, waiting for your feedback so we can make the best for your guys.
> 
> 1, First Dual DAC in our line ups. the DAC has not decided yet, maybe dual 1792A or ESS9018K2M or ESS9018 but we are worry about the power consume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been absent from HF for sometime due to high workload, and I'm glad to see that Q5 will most probably use 2x AK4490 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The specs looks awesome! Thanks James!


----------



## koinmove

My next target is Chord mojo, hope Q5 will be a great amp/dac that as good as Chord mojo but with half of the price 
 and it can be simple and good!


----------



## TheoS53

koinmove said:


> My next target is Chord mojo, hope Q5 will be a great amp/dac that as good as Chord mojo but with half of the price
> and it can be simple and good!


 
 I'm strongly contemplating getting the Mojo too. But since I'm a huge Fiio fan, I think I should wait until the Q5 is released before making my final decision. 
  
 One thing is for sure though, Whatever Fiio comes up with, it'll look better, more refined than the Mojo


----------



## koinmove

demond said:


> hello everyone, I am FiiO Demond.
> The Q5 design in progress. But we want to make ID a little better.
> Here, I have prepared a new design, The new ID has added a small display, what do you like better.
> 
> PS, Q5 will add a USB interface, used to support iPhone and iPad.



prefer B2, look like a gentlement


----------



## Eudis

Will there be a batch of prototypes sold to us Headfiers? I would lovw to test one and provide feed back once prototype production begins!


----------



## oldmate




----------



## sunny25

Prefer B2.


----------



## TheoS53

I really hope this time around Fiio will ensure that the colour of the AMP modules match the body of the Q5


----------



## Majid Mute

prefer b2.


----------



## HiFiChris

oldmate said:


>


 
  
 Oooooooooooooh maaaaaan! It really took me almost five days to finally notice the inscription on the collar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I still prefer design "A" personally.



 @FiiO:

 Nonetheless, I think it would be best to a) run a poll on a dedicated external website (just as you did for the design of the original FiiO X3) and b) to have all designs display the same mode/input and therefore colour of the LED so people who vote aren't subconsciously influenced by the different colours of the design ideas.


----------



## ngoshawk

hifichris said:


> Oooooooooooooh maaaaaan! It really took me almost five days to finally notice the inscription on the collar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol, pay attention, Chris! It was quite clever, too.


----------



## demond

Q5 ID, after several adjustments, almost two month, comprehensive consideration of the overall layout, and desktop use, and the overall sense with X7-AMP Module, modified for the following modified graphics, how do you feel?


----------



## Majid Mute

demond said:


> Q5 ID, after several adjustments, almost two month, comprehensive consideration of the overall layout, and desktop use, and the overall sense with X7-AMP Module, modified for the following modified graphics, how do you feel?




B2 style is very better


----------



## HiFiChris

No volume indicator/display?

 Will the volume control remain digital without any analogue but digital rotary potentiometer?


----------



## sandman1990

demond said:


> Q5 ID, after several adjustments, almost two month, comprehensive consideration of the overall layout, and desktop use, and the overall sense with X7-AMP Module, modified for the following modified graphics, how do you feel?


 
 Love it except for the leathery stuff. I hope it sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## TheoS53

it looks great, but i assume there's no screen. Personally, of all the designs we've seen so far, this one "looks" the most mature


----------



## mochill

Dual akm4497 would be awesome verta eq edition


----------



## White Lotus

Would it stack with the X7 + AM0?


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

I'm happy it has optical/coax in.
  
 Can I make a suggestion of built in feet because that leather is going to get scuffed up on a desk. Can you include a right angled micro USB cable for power entry which is much more suited for desktop use. Anyone who has had an E12 on their desk charging will understand why.
  
 Nice to see analog IC volume control.


----------



## Ab10

demond said:


> Q5 ID, after several adjustments, almost two month, comprehensive consideration of the overall layout, and desktop use, and the overall sense with X7-AMP Module, modified for the following modified graphics, how do you feel?


 
  
 This design is very mature enough I like to Say - Plain Surface for stack able purpose - No display (No need for headache such as screen scratch / broke - Dead LED) - Appropriate Appearance if you want to prioritize as X7's Accessorize AMP module. An OPPO HA-2 type volume control as well some patch of leather like stuff at the bottom to stay at Desk.
  
 This design contain simplicity of Q1 as interface section - No sudden surprise....But people will ask what was your plan to do the plain plate like area at the front ?
  
 Great One.


----------



## koinmove

demond said:


> Q5 ID, after several adjustments, almost two month, comprehensive consideration of the overall layout, and desktop use, and the overall sense with X7-AMP Module, modified for the following modified graphics, how do you feel?



this design look nice n.simple 
but i prefer the volume control near to headphone out, so easy to control the volume when put in the pocket.
may i ask where will the usb in(connect with iphone) will locate?


----------



## JamesFiiO

koinmove said:


> this design look nice n.simple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 it share the amp modules with our X7 so the USB in is on the bottom.  another USB in is for power in .


----------



## Dobrescu George

what DAC will be used after latest decision?


----------



## RedJohn456

Gonna buy the heck out of this. TAKE MY MONEY FiiO!


----------



## JamesFiiO

dobrescu george said:


> what DAC will be used after latest decision?




dual AK4490


----------



## Andreeww

I will buy as long as it has USB C port.


----------



## haiku

jamesfiio said:


> dual AK4490


 

 So James, may I ask you, where you´ll place the Q5 in the product ranking, in terms of the sound quality? For me as a X7 owner, will this be an upgrade too, or is the X7+Amp Mod. still at the top in your product hierarchy?


----------



## White Lotus

haiku said:


> So James, may I ask you, where you´ll place the Q5 in the product ranking, in terms of the sound quality? For me as a X7 owner, will this be an upgrade too, or is the X7+Amp Mod. still at the top in your product hierarchy?


 
  
 Considering it's the same amp system, I imagine they will sound almost exactly alike.


----------



## TheoS53

white lotus said:


> Considering it's the same amp system, I imagine they will sound almost exactly alike.


 
 The amp is just the last step, the DAC has an influence too.

 But in all honesty, there is no major, incredible, world-altering, insane difference in sound between these devices. I've tried the X7, E12, X5 1st gen, X3 2nd gen, X1, M3, E12A, E18, Mojo. Whilst there are deffinitely differences, most of the time it's actully rather subtle, it's not as major as the marketing or placebo hype would have anyone believe


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> The amp is just the last step, the DAC has an influence too.
> 
> But in all honesty, there is no major, incredible, world-altering, insane difference in sound between these devices. I've tried the X7, E12, X5 1st gen, X3 2nd gen, X1, M3, E12A, E18, Mojo. Whilst there are deffinitely differences, most of the time it's actully rather subtle, it's not as major as the marketing or placebo hype would have anyone believe


 

  I would say that x5ii definitively has it's own sound which is different from the others. 
  
 And E12A has a totally different signature. 
  
 The other members of Fiio family are closer to each other but these two are just a bit wider apart than the rest


----------



## NPWS

it is the same size as fiio x7??
 how about the battery life?


----------



## TheoS53

dobrescu george said:


> I would say that x5ii definitively has it's own sound which is different from the others.
> 
> And E12A has a totally different signature.
> 
> The other members of Fiio family are closer to each other but these two are just a bit wider apart than the rest


 
 key phrase being "a bit". Honestly, I couldn't see the point of the X7 as compared to my E18+E12A setup....there simply didn't seem to be any kind of improvement in sound. The Mojo, on the other hand, definitely sounded better..but again, not an insane difference...just...better


----------



## ProtegeManiac

demond said:


> Q5 ID, after several adjustments, almost two month, comprehensive consideration of the overall layout, and desktop use, and the overall sense with X7-AMP Module, modified for the following modified graphics, how do you feel?


 
  
 It's nice that desktop use was taken into consideration - top is a nice brushed metal and then the leather-like material I assume is what will sit in the bottom and will prevent scratching. As much as I like the latter's usefulness though I just have one concern - is that leather material easy to replace? I can imagine it might wear out at some point long before the unit conks out: friction, if it uses some kind of adhesive it might end up drying out over time or might get stickier in hot and humid climate, etc.


----------



## JamesFiiO

good news is that Apple finally allow us to design and sell Q5 with USB-Lightning interface so Q5 can support 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.


----------



## TheoS53

jamesfiio said:


> good news is that Apple finally allow us to design and sell Q5 with USB-Lightning interface so Q5 can support 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.


 
 that's fantastic, the more compatibility, the better. 

@JamesFiiO Will the Q5 also come with the same kind of small interconnect cables as the E18?


----------



## ngoshawk

jamesfiio said:


> good news is that Apple finally allow us to design and sell Q5 with USB-Lightning interface so Q5 can support 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.




Excellent to hear. Compatability with the Lightning interface is the logical next step of many devices. (My opinion). It looks almost Swedish in its understatement...like a B&O amp would look.


----------



## JamesFiiO

theos53 said:


> that's fantastic, the more compatibility, the better.
> 
> @JamesFiiO Will the Q5 also come with the same kind of small interconnect cables as the E18?


 
  
 yes


----------



## JamesFiiO

ngoshawk said:


> Excellent to hear. Compatability with the Lightning interface is the logical next step of many devices. (My opinion). It looks almost Swedish in its understatement...like a B&O amp would look.


 
  
  
 yes, lots of  people will have to buy a portable DAC/amp so they can still use their IE800/SE846/K3K3 with their iphone7. the LAM is limited in 48K/16BIT so the performance is hard to compete with Q5


----------



## xxvincixx

When it will be released and at what price?

Inviato dal mio SM-T705 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Furiousipaduser

man if this is around 300ish ill probably buy one on release, would be nice to have for iPhone 7/desk at work


----------



## Paulo Abreu

jamesfiio said:


> good news is that Apple finally allow us to design and sell Q5 with USB-Lightning interface so Q5 can support 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.


 
  
 Wow, great news!


----------



## RAFA

jamesfiio said:


> good news is that Apple finally allow us to design and sell Q5 with USB-Lightning interface so Q5 can support 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.




Will this work with the iPod Classic?


----------



## JamesFiiO

rafa said:


> Will this work with the iPod Classic?


 
  
  
 yes, but only work as amp for iPC


----------



## RAFA

jamesfiio said:


> yes, but only work as amp for iPC




Will have to combine it then with the T3


----------



## xxvincixx

hi, I need to buy a dac, I would be interested in this product, when you think will be on the market ?? because I would like to purchase a dac quickly ... thanks


----------



## mrhizzo

jamesfiio said:


> yes, but only work as amp for iPC




Any news about the release date and price?


----------



## 2xKetabol

mrhizzo said:


> Any news about the release date and price?



Also interested to know that.


----------



## Ultrainferno

mrhizzo said:


> Any news about the release date and price?


 
  
  
 From what I have heard from Fiio it will be somewhere in 2017 and the price will be around $250
 I expected it to be a lot more expensive, so that's good news


----------



## koinmove

If the quality same as mojo i dont mind to pay $350~400 for the Q5


----------



## Dobrescu George

koinmove said:


> If the quality same as mojo i dont mind to pay $350~400 for the Q5


 
  
  
 Some people like X7 more than mojo (same amp modules as Q5
  
 I think that knowing Fiio's past, Q5 will be great! 
  
 I can't wait to see how the new DAC design sounds like.


----------



## ph0n6

Will it support plug n play for windows? (24/96, usb audio 1.0 I mean)


----------



## demond

ph0n6 said:


> Will it support plug n play for windows? (24/96, usb audio 1.0 I mean)


 
 Windows，Need to install USB driver.


----------



## earfonia

ultrainferno said:


> From what I have heard from Fiio it will be somewhere in 2017 and the price will be around $250
> I expected it to be a lot more expensive, so that's good news


 
  
 WOW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If it sounds good and even cost around $300, it will be a giant killer. Good move Fiio!


----------



## earfonia

ph0n6 said:


> Will it support plug n play for windows? (24/96, usb audio 1.0 I mean)


 
  
 USB audio class 1 is convenient, but limit the DAC capability. If Q5 can have 2 USB ports, one port for class 1, and another one for class 2, that would be nice. Like the implementation of USB on Mytek 192-DSD.


----------



## demond

earfonia said:


> USB audio class 1 is convenient, but limit the DAC capability. If Q5 can have 2 USB ports, one port for class 1, and another one for class 2, that would be nice. Like the implementation of USB on Mytek 192-DSD.



 

Q5 has two USB interfaces, one of which is used for mobile devices, such as iPhone. Another for computers, etc.


----------



## earfonia

demond said:


> earfonia said:
> 
> 
> > USB audio class 1 is convenient, but limit the DAC capability. If Q5 can have 2 USB ports, one port for class 1, and another one for class 2, that would be nice. Like the implementation of USB on Mytek 192-DSD.
> ...


 
  
 Nice!


----------



## ph0n6

My case is pretty specific: the Lumia 950XL. It essentially acts like a Windows PC but without the ability to install driver, only have USB audio out 1.0 24/96. My guess is that the mobile devices interface of the Q5 will not support USB audio 1.0?

Ranting: Technically if Microsoft EVER decided to support USB audio out 2.0 for Windows the mobile should also have it. But it's Microsoft so.......


----------



## demond

ph0n6 said:


> My case is pretty specific: the Lumia 950XL. It essentially acts like a Windows PC but without the ability to install driver, only have USB audio out 1.0 24/96. My guess is that the mobile devices interface of the Q5 will not support USB audio 1.0?
> 
> Ranting: Technically if Microsoft EVER decided to support USB audio out 2.0 for Windows the mobile should also have it. But it's Microsoft so.......


 
 Have you tried different play APP software


----------



## ksojoel

I would prefer a removable battery, so you can buy a new one when its lifetime ends. It may make the device a bit bulkier, but that's not very important imo.


----------



## WitzyZed

ksojoel said:


> I would prefer a removable battery, so you can buy a new one when its lifetime ends. It may make the device a bit bulkier, but that's not very important imo.



I second that. Any DIY/Modularity will bump the value of this flagship up. I just don't want to flood FiiO with even more support or customer service hastles xD .


----------



## ph0n6

Windows 10 just have a (beta) release of the Usb Audio Class 2.0 support so the Q5 should now works with windows 10 without any driver (Still use Direct Sound however). Patiently waiting for a release date.
 BTW I see a bass and gains button, the bass is only applied to the amp module and not lineout if I understand correctly? Also is the stock Q5 comes with module AM0 to drive the cost down?


----------



## FiiO-Shadow

ph0n6 said:


> Windows 10 just have a (beta) release of the Usb Audio Class 2.0 support so the Q5 should now works with windows 10 without any driver (Still use Direct Sound however). Patiently waiting for a release date.
> BTW I see a bass and gains button, the bass is only applied to the amp module and not lineout if I understand correctly? Also is the stock Q5 comes with module AM0 to drive the cost down?


 
  
 Hi, ph0n6.
  
 For the Bass adjustment, there may be a specialized app for the Q5, helping adjust the sound effect. That is to say, even with the module AM0, end users may still can adjust the bass by the software app.
 At present, it is still not sure how the Q5 will come. But I will pass your feedback to the Q5 product manager.


----------



## Pactalix

Will this work with a galaxy note 4?


----------



## duyu

Getting excited seeing the new pics on the Facebook.
 FiiO's reaction to the disappear of 3.5 happens at the RIGHT time!
  
 My question is: how will it be connected with the iphone 7, APT-X?
 I can't get any clues from the pics.


----------



## ph0n6

While I can understand why you guys went with Micro usb for its popularity, I would like to see a USB type C version in the future when it becomes the norm.


----------



## earfonia

fiio-shadow said:


> Hi, ph0n6.
> 
> For the Bass adjustment, there may be a specialized app for the Q5, helping adjust the sound effect. That is to say, even with the module AM0, end users may still can adjust the bass by the software app.
> At present, it is still not sure how the Q5 will come. But I will pass your feedback to the Q5 product manager.


 
  
 This is actually a good approach as well, to use app in smartphone to process the audio signal digitally before sending to Q5. But when using smartphone, many music player have built-in tone adjustment. Unless playing something like YouTube, than the app tone adjustment would be useful. Will the app be available for all common OS? I mean, Windows, Android, and iOS.


----------



## willywill

Here the final design


----------



## swannie007

Very nice!


----------



## frifox

I'm quite intrigued by Q5. Since the final design is settled, when can we expect it to be available to public?
  
 Currently using E17 at work, home, and on the go (yep, three E17's). Using it on the go / with cellphone is pretty messy as I always have to remember to carry the OTG + USB cables and deal with EMI noise always messing with the audio due to dac/cell proximity. Since I'm seeing Q5 will have a bluetooth capability then this would be perfect. No cables to deal with, EMI is ruled out since I can always relocate my cell somewhere further away. And, if aptX is used as suggested in the OP, still have great SQ!


----------



## manpowre

Here is the thing, drop the interface to control music. Portable system, so users dont want the cable chaos or to break cables sticking out here and there.
  
 First:
 Most users have iphone OR android to control music. And my bet is that they already have Tidal or Spotify streaming the music.
  
 Second:
 Ensure seamless integration between music control unit and the DAC - AMP!! Chromecast Audio is great..
  
 My dream is this in one small box without the cable mess!!! so my phone can connect to the unit eg. through chromecast audio. Mabye support both iphone and chromecast protocols ?
  
 Below is a Chromecast Audio wireless connected to my phone.. Then toslink to my DAC, and a powerbank to power the chromecast. 
 The Centrance Mini-M8 has mini XLR4 and can drive my LCD4, and it has toslink in, jackplug out, 3 step pre-GAIN control, battery, PC/Android USB-in, iphone usb-in.
  

  
 If you make all that in one package, without the screen, just have the chromecast/iphone connection go wireless to the phone, you have created a winner!


----------



## RedJohn456

manpowre said:


> Here is the thing, drop the interface to control music. Portable system, so users dont want the cable chaos or to break cables sticking out here and there.
> 
> First:
> Most users have iphone OR android to control music. And my bet is that they already have Tidal or Spotify streaming the music.
> ...


 

 Please no, going winless will kill audio fidelity to begin with. You can still make it wireless to your hearts content with adapters and stuff after buying it and taking it home but if FiiO make it wireless based most people who want quality will NOT buy it I guarantee it, myself included, it will be retail suicide. The physical buttons make it easier to navigate without having to turn on the screen all the time or pocket navigation. 
  
 And the set up in the pic looks quite messy already and thats with the wireless chrome cast haha. I kid I kid


----------



## Madcat207

Those final shots look nice.  Certainly has my attention, but I suspect it will be priced higher than I am ready for right now.  Still, genuine bravo for pushing the development with modular stuff!


----------



## HokieKev

I am sure this is a dumb question but I can't resist.  How can you use the same port for both optical and coax digital input? Do you need a special adapter?


----------



## x RELIC x

hokiekev said:


> I am sure this is a dumb question but I can't resist.  How can you use the same port for both optical and coax digital input? Do you need a special adapter?




The same way Astell & Kern do with the headphone jack. The optical light (with a 3.5mm optical plug - mini optical) at the bottom and the coaxial voltage pins on the side.


----------



## FiiO

duyu said:


> Getting excited seeing the new pics on the Facebook.
> 
> 
> FiiO's reaction to the disappear of 3.5 happens at the RIGHT time!
> ...



 


Hi, duyu

Do you mean the iF3? It can collect to the lightning port of iphone products.


----------



## duyu

fiio said:


> duyu said:
> 
> 
> > Getting excited seeing the new pics on the Facebook.
> ...





I was thinking about Q5 as it is "made for iPhone/iPad".


----------



## ph0n6

As for the newest iteration of the Q5 I see that you guys decided to go with using only one usb port for charging and data transfering, the question is will can we change whether or not we want to charge or data transfer only or both? (which I hope that we can, the iBasso D14 does have a switch for this)


----------



## Yethal

What's this port for?


 Also, do we have a pricepoint?


----------



## mandrake50

Where is the headphone out jack?  Obviously I am missing something, but looking at the pictures on the previous page, I don't see it.
 Maybe on the bottom of the amp module (which is not shown in the pictures)?


----------



## Brooko

If it's using same ampmodules as X7 then headphone out is on the bottom


----------



## FiiO

duyu said:


> fiio said:
> 
> 
> > duyu said:
> ...


 
 Hi, duyu
 Sorry for misunderstanding what you mean before. There may be a cable comes with Q5 which helps collect the Q5 to your iPhone products.


----------



## Alexein Aner

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new DAC/AMP , it is our flagship DAC/AMP...


 
 Hello,
  
 Strictly in regards to its amp, does the flagship moniker mean that it will supersede the Fiio A5? Thanks in advance.


----------



## HotIce

alexein aner said:


> Hello,
> 
> Strictly in regards to its amp, does the flagship moniker mean that it will supersede the Fiio A5? Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I think E12 -> A5, and {E17,E18} -> Q5.


----------



## Alexein Aner

hotice said:


> I think E12 -> A5, and {E17,E18} -> Q5.


 

 That was my concern in looking at FiiO's previous Ax/Ex & Qx iterations. I suppose I'll wait on the A5 as it seems to offer the advantages of both the E12 & E12A.


----------



## apaar123

What is the expected price?


----------



## apaar123

So it will be able to enhance Bluetooth headphones quality?


----------



## blazinblazin

apaar123 said:


> So it will be able to enhance Bluetooth headphones quality?


 
  
 I don't think its possible. If you use Bluetooth, the driver you are using is from your Bluetooth headphone and not from any AMP/DAC.
  
 Unless you are using cable connection from your headphone to the AMP/DAC.


----------



## apaar123

Does anyone know what is the expected price?


----------



## bodopopa

How would q5 be in terms of sound quality in respect to fiiox5 sg? Will there be a x5 3rd gen with theese specs in the future?


----------



## duyu

fiio said:


> Hi, duyu
> Sorry for misunderstanding what you mean before. There may be a cable comes with Q5 which helps collect the Q5 to your iPhone products.




Hope this is a solution for listening HD music on the iPhone 7. The dac and amp in the convertors couldn't be very good.


----------



## Zodler

Wouldn't it be much better if it had a small screen like ALPEN 2-E17K? Isn't the screen necessary especially for receiving audio from smartphones? With screen you can check if you are receiving the correct native bitrate sample rate.


----------



## Yethal

zodler said:


> Wouldn't it be much better if it had a small screen like ALPEN 2-E17K? Isn't the screen necessary especially for receiving audio from smartphones? With screen you can check if you are receiving the correct native bitrate sample rate.



That's a lot of energy wasted just to check the bitrate.


----------



## White Lotus

yethal said:


> That's a lot of energy wasted just to check the bitrate.


 
  
 And additional cost


----------



## Zodler

Both not true. ALPEN 2-E17K with a screen is cheaper than KUNLUN-E18 with no screen.
  
 The screen of course turns off automatically and is not always on. It's important because there are a ton of FLAC apps and supposedly high resolution iOS audio players but they don't output correctly the native digital audio. They convert. The screen is a must to see if you get the proper audio.


----------



## White Lotus

Regardless of the two (completely different) products you mentioned, it would cost FiiO more to implement a screen on this device. 

Chord Mojo gets away with not having a screen.


----------



## Yethal

zodler said:


> Both not true. ALPEN 2-E17K with a screen is cheaper than KUNLUN-E18 with no screen.
> 
> The screen of course turns off automatically and is not always on. It's important because there are a ton of FLAC apps and supposedly high resolution iOS audio players but they don't output correctly the native digital audio. They convert. The screen is a must to see if you get the proper audio.



A) use UAPP it always outputs unconverted unless you specifically ask it to.
B) if You're able to hear the difference between resampled and non-resampled tracks then You don't need a screen.


----------



## ph0n6

Wonder if Fiio will provide Micro to Type C cables, the micro to micro is pretty easy to find nowadays but not so with type C.


----------



## Ciuvn

zodler said:


> Both not true. ALPEN 2-E17K with a screen is cheaper than KUNLUN-E18 with no screen.
> 
> The screen of course turns off automatically and is not always on. It's important because there are a ton of FLAC apps and supposedly high resolution iOS audio players but they don't output correctly the native digital audio. They convert. The screen is a must to see if you get the proper audio.


 
 more over, does SQ of E17k equal to E18?


----------



## Zodler

white lotus said:


> Chord Mojo gets away with not having a screen.


 
  
 Great that you mentioned Chord Mojo. Chord Mojo does have a "screen". They recognize that it's important to show us what audio frequency it is receiving. They use colors on the power button to inform us which does the same job as a screen. If Q5 doesn't want to use a screen, it would be great to use colors like mojo.


----------



## TheoS53

ph0n6 said:


> Wonder if Fiio will provide Micro to Type C cables, the micro to micro is pretty easy to find nowadays but not so with type C.


 
 I don't think the micro-to-micro cable that came with the E18 is actually an OTG cable. I remember tryinf to use it with the Mojo, but that didn't work.

 I also vaguely remember reading something about Fiio using a proprietary 11-pin connection


----------



## RedJohn456

Having finally tried the X7 amp modules it makes me even more excited for the Q5 and amp modules


----------



## VaporImitation

I guess this will support Apt-x but not apt-x HD, right ?


----------



## demond

vaporimitation said:


> I guess this will support Apt-x but not apt-x HD, right ?


 
 How do you know it, huh, huh


----------



## VaporImitation

saw some Apt-x certification hints on FiiO's facebook page for some time now.


----------



## OneL0ve

Release it NOW!!!!!!!


----------



## HokieKev

Will the Q5 sit in the FIIO DK1 Dock. BTW, I really like that FIIO is releasing the dock which has line out on the back. It's nice to get everything on your desktop set and be able to pop your device into the dock. Very convenient.


----------



## demond

hokiekev said:


> Will the Q5 sit in the FIIO DK1 Dock. BTW, I really like that FIIO is releasing the dock which has line out on the back. It's nice to get everything on your desktop set and be able to pop your device into the dock. Very convenient.


 
 Q5 can be used in the DK1 or K5 dock.


----------



## pranavtripathi

Hi,

Any estimated price or release date mentioned about the Fiio Q5?

Thanks.


----------



## FiiO

pranavtripathi said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any estimated price or release date mentioned about the Fiio Q5?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Hi, pranvtripathi
 It will be released in early 2017.


----------



## pranavtripathi

fiio said:


> Hi, pranvtripathi
> It will be released in early 2017.



Estimated price please? Even if it is in RMB


----------



## FiiO

pranavtripathi said:


> fiio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, pranvtripathi
> ...


 
 Hi, pranvtripathi
 The estimated price is still not been determined yet. But it would be reasonable. Looking forward to the release time as well.


----------



## pranavtripathi

fiio said:


> Hi, pranvtripathi
> The estimated price is still not been determined yet. But it would be reasonable. Looking forward to the release time as well.



Thank You for the information!


----------



## fuzun

I hope this will use AK4490*EN* because of power concerns.


----------



## pranavtripathi

Can someone confirm, along with Fiio Q5, another model called the Q3 was supposed to be released. Anybody has any information about it?

Thanks.


----------



## demond

pranavtripathi said:


> Can someone confirm, along with Fiio Q5, another model called the Q3 was supposed to be released. Anybody has any information about it?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 The Q3, the specific content has not been determined.


----------



## inertianinja

fiio said:


> Hi, duyu
> Sorry for misunderstanding what you mean before. There may be a cable comes with Q5 which helps collect the Q5 to your iPhone products.


 
  
Will the Q5 have MFi certification?
This is a must for me; the only other attractive option I've seen so far is the Oppo HA-2SE.
  
 EDIT: finally got through the previous pages and found the answer.


----------



## VaporImitation

fiio said:


> Hi, pranvtripathi
> The estimated price is still not been determined yet. But it would be reasonable. Looking forward to the release time as well.




Could you tell us more about Bluetooth, regarding the Q5?
thanks a lot, really looking forward to its release


----------



## JamesFiiO

vaporimitation said:


> Could you tell us more about Bluetooth, regarding the Q5?
> thanks a lot, really looking forward to its release


 
  
 the bluetooth will supports APTX . also we will develop a APP in IOS/ANDRIOD so it make user easy to set some features for Q5.


----------



## VaporImitation

Sounds great! looking forward to it.
it'll work too as usual with Windows 7-10 I guess. 

too bad it won't support apt-x HD though, in one of the next iteration I guess


----------



## apaar123

jamesfiio said:


> the bluetooth will supports APTX . also we will develop a APP in IOS/ANDRIOD so it make user easy to set some features for Q5.


 
 does that means i can enhance bluetooth headphones quality?


----------



## TheoS53

apaar123 said:


> does that means i can enhance bluetooth headphones quality?


 
 only if the bluetooth headphones also have Apt-X


----------



## apaar123

theos53 said:


> only if the bluetooth headphones also have Apt-X


 
 ya but it will na?


----------



## TheoS53

apaar123 said:


> ya but it will na?


 
 why would it? Apt-X isn't a standard thing


----------



## apaar123

theos53 said:


> why would it? Apt-X isn't a standard thing


 
 my headphones have apt x


----------



## frifox

apaar123 said:


> does that means i can enhance bluetooth headphones quality?


 


apaar123 said:


> my headphones have apt x


 
  

 Using Q5 to stream aptx audio to headphones makes zero sense. Q5 sole reason for existence is the quality DAC/AMP for best sound quality. There are plenty $20 solutions that you can connect to usb (digital) or a 3.5mm (analog) source that would then push aptx to your headphones.
  
 Q5's buletooth capability is meant to receive the aptx stream and then drive it your wired headphones using the Q5's quality dac/amp, not the other way around.


----------



## inertianinja

> Using Q5 to stream aptx audio to headphones makes zero sense. Q5 sole reason for existence is the quality DAC/AMP for best sound quality. There are plenty $20 solutions that you can connect to usb (digital) or a 3.5mm (analog) source that would then push aptx to your headphone


 
  
 Though it doesn't make sense to buy the Q5 solely for this purpose, IMO it makes sense if you think about a product like this as a jack of all trades portable device.
  
 I like the idea of having one device that can receive line, optical, USB and bluetooth, AND output line analog, amped analog, and bluetooth. So I know if i have the thing with me, i'm going to be able to get audio *into* or *out of* basically any device i encounter.
  
 That said, if omitting the bluetooth output would chop $50 off the price, that would be a different matter. but if it's not adding cost, why not?


----------



## TheoS53

inertianinja said:


> Though it doesn't make sense to buy the Q5 solely for this purpose, IMO it makes sense if you think about a product like this as a jack of all trades portable device.
> 
> I like the idea of having one device that can receive line, optical, USB and bluetooth, AND output line analog, amped analog, and bluetooth. So I know if i have the thing with me, i'm going to be able to get audio *into* or *out of* basically any device i encounter.
> 
> That said, if omitting the bluetooth output would chop $50 off the price, that would be a different matter. but if it's not adding cost, why not?


 
 not sure if the Q5 will be able to receive BT audio signals, or only transmit them


----------



## inertianinja

theos53 said:


> not sure if the Q5 will be able to receive BT audio signals, or only transmit them




I thought I had read somewhere in here that was planned dual mode


----------



## TheoS53

inertianinja said:


> I thought I had read somewhere in here that was planned dual mode


 
 That would most probably be only to receive signals from the RM1 remote....but I really am not certain on the details


----------



## VaporImitation

it's writen on Facebook that it can handle both directions for blutooth.

zero sense? 

well make sense to me for smartphone use at least, when you don't want to be wired, and if your smartphone BT doesn't handle apt-x. (which is the case of my samsung galaxy note2)

I could also see myself plugging a Q5 to my pc, and using the the audio jack when I'm sitting at the desk and using BT apt-x out when i'm a couple of feet away. (Yes I could use a 20$ aptx BT usb dongle, but if I can spare myself from buying one.. also usb BT dongles tend to be cpu taxing, which sucks when playing games, the Q5 wilm prolly handle encoding the sound to BT aptx on it's own (if not, I could easily switch from usb to BT to optical/coax to BT woth the Q5), meaning more cpu ressources left to my game)

Indeed, jack of all trade situation, really.


----------



## TheoS53

vaporimitation said:


> it's writen on Facebook that it can handle both directions for blutooth.
> 
> zero sense?
> 
> ...


 
 Well, the reason I'm unsure is because the new X1 also has bluetooth dual mode. But the only "receiving" it can do is from the RM1 remote


----------



## apaar123

what is the maximum impedance for which it can give good power?


----------



## WitzyZed

apaar123 said:


> what is the maximum impedance for which it can give good power?



Same options for power as the X7 ~ 
See amp module reviews by Brooko.
AM5, AM2A, & AM3 (balanced) all have power to spare.


----------



## apaar123

Release date?


----------



## WitzyZed

fiio said:


> Hi, pranvtripathi
> It will be released in early 2017.







apaar123 said:


> Release date?


----------



## apaar123

witzyzed said:


>


 
 and expected price?


----------



## Einsteinmc2

What is the point of a Q5 and X7?
 Can it be 1 device?


----------



## FiiO

einsteinmc2 said:


> What is the point of a Q5 and X7?
> 
> 
> Can it be 1 device?



 


Hi, Einsteinmc2
The Q5 is an AMP/DAC and the X7 is a DAP.


----------



## Einsteinmc2

Yes I know, but with a to built in SPDIF in you can use the X7 as a DAC( It hads already coax SPDIF out I assume), the hardware is nearly the same?


----------



## Subhakar

April, 2017?
 $299?


----------



## Einsteinmc2

I have the Fiio X3II. What to do:  wait untill Q5 comes and combine it or the X7.
 Using Aidioquest Nighthawk headphones and I want it to play from the AM3 balanced amp.


----------



## TheoS53

einsteinmc2 said:


> I have the Fiio X3II. What to do:  wait untill Q5 comes and combine it or the X7.
> Using Aidioquest Nighthawk headphones and I want it to play from the AM3 balanced amp.


 
 why on earth would you want to buy the X7 _AND_ the Q5?

 edit: never mind..misread the post lol. 

 well, do you sell the X3ii and buy the X7 (then you only have 1 device to walk around with)...or stack the Q5 to the X3ii and have a huge device that you can't stick in your pocket?

 Soundwise the Q5 will probably be better than the X7..but not sure


----------



## Einsteinmc2

theos53 said:


> why on earth would you want to buy the X7 _AND_ the Q5?
> 
> edit: never mind..misread the post lol.
> 
> ...


 
 And 2 batteries to keep up


----------



## TheoS53

einsteinmc2 said:


> And 2 batteries to keep up:wink_face:




Lol too true. 

I use to stack the E18 and E12A to my phone... But recently got tired of all the baggage and so decided to look for a DAP. I settled on the DX80 and couldn't be happier. Sound quality is way above the e18+E12A stack (which didn't seem significantly worse than the x7 with am1 module).. and only 1 device to tag along.


----------



## Subhakar

Sincerely hoping Q5 could be better than Mojo.


----------



## FiiO

subhakar said:


> Sincerely hoping Q5 could be better than Mojo.


 
 Hi, Subhakar
 Thanks for your best wishes. We will share no effort to provide better products for our users.


----------



## Subhakar

fiio said:


> Hi, Subhakar
> Thanks for your best wishes. We will share no effort to provide better products for our users.




Q5 must be one of the very first portable DAC/Amps with a dual DAC, that too an AKM4490 premium chip, well-implemented as all FiiO devices boast of, a <0.5 output impedance, analog volume control, native DSD, SE and BAL out and a possible aptX (make it aptX HD). And all below a guesstimate $299. I see no reason in spending on $1000+ DAPs or DAC/Amps of elitist pricing product segment. Onkyo DP-X1 was the last to command such respect with its respectable price-to-performance ratio apart from your own X7. I have no doubt FiiO Q5 will take the same spirit to the next level. Would love to see a very reliable portable tube amp from FiiO one day that can perform better than ALO Continental V5 at 1/3rd the price. Great things need not come at ugly prices.


----------



## JamesFiiO

subhakar said:


> Q5 must be one of the very first portable DAC/Amps with a dual DAC, that too an AKM4490 premium chip, well-implemented as all FiiO devices boast of, a <0.5 output impedance, analog volume control, native DSD, SE and BAL out and a possible aptX (make it aptX HD). And all below a guesstimate $299. I see no reason in spending on $1000+ DAPs or DAC/Amps of elitist pricing product segment. Onkyo DP-X1 was the last to command such respect with its respectable price-to-performance ratio apart from your own X7. I have no doubt FiiO Q5 will take the same spirit to the next level. Would love to see a very reliable portable tube amp from FiiO one day that can perform better than ALO Continental V5 at 1/3rd the price. Great things need not come at ugly prices.


 
  
  
  
 thanks, so far the final specificatio, feactures and price have not decided yet.   so far everything good smooth and will share any new information with you guys. BTW, there will have an APP so you can adjust some setting in your smartphone.


----------



## Rin1990

jamesfiio said:


> thanks, so far the final specificatio, feactures and price have not decided yet.   so far everything good smooth and will share any new information with you guys. BTW, there will have an APP so you can adjust some setting in your smartphone.


 
 Hey there James.
  
 As I am about to own a Fiio X3 II in future, I just want to know.
  
 Will the Q5 DAC Amp have Coaxial support where I can use the Coax output from X3 II to utilize the DAC in Q5?


----------



## JamesFiiO

rin1990 said:


> Hey there James.
> 
> As I am about to own a Fiio X3 II in future, I just want to know.
> 
> Will the Q5 DAC Amp have Coaxial support where I can use the Coax output from X3 II to utilize the DAC in Q5?


 
  
 Q5 supports 6 diffent kinds of input include: Bluetooth ( APTX ), Optical, Coaxial, USB, Lightning, Analog. so you have not problem to connect Q5 with X3ii.


----------



## Rin1990

jamesfiio said:


> Q5 supports 6 diffent kinds of input include: Bluetooth ( APTX ), Optical, Coaxial, USB, Lightning, Analog. so you have not problem to connect Q5 with X3ii.




Thanks for the reply.

I suppose it won't be a problem using X3II to coax out and bypass it's own DAC to use Q5's DAC chip.


----------



## Rin1990

JamesFiiO

I would also like to know the price of the Q5 if possible. If there's a preorder price, how much would it be?

Thanks.


----------



## FiiO

rin1990 said:


> @JamesFiiO
> 
> I would also like to know the price of the Q5 if possible. If there's a preorder price, how much would it be?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  


jamesfiio said:


> thanks, so far the final specificatio, feactures and *price have not decided *yet.   so far everything good smooth and will share any new information with you guys. BTW, there will have an APP so you can adjust some setting in your smartphone.


----------



## apaar123

what is the expected price?


----------



## ballog

apaar123 said:


> what is the expected price?


 
 Would very much like to know the price range of the Q5 (even approximate). I have been really looking forward to buy a quality portable DAC - almost pulled the plug on an Xduoo XD-05 at $153 but now I'm leaning more toward Q5 and getting impatient.


----------



## Rin1990

Guess I'll just play the patience game then.

**Tapping fingers on table impatiently**


----------



## keppes

So, i bought a pair of the Fostex T50rp Mk3s, which are hard to drive. I want to use them on my Galaxy S5, my Sansa Clip Zip and also on my Pc. Since I have no experience with amps and amp/dacs combos, I need the help of you guys. Do I need an amp/dac combo or would an amp only work for me? On my list are the Q1 (does it has enough power?) and the E12/A5. Should I wait for the Q5 in case i need a amp/dac combo?


----------



## apaar123

Any updates fiio?


----------



## ClieOS

apaar123 said:


> Any updates fiio?


 
  
 Three pages ago:
  


fiio said:


> Hi, pranvtripathi
> It will be released in early 2017.


----------



## Ab10

ballog said:


> Would very much like to know the price range of the Q5 (even approximate). I have been really looking forward to buy a quality portable DAC - almost pulled the plug on an Xduoo XD-05 at $153 but now I'm leaning more toward Q5 and getting impatient.


 
  
 Q5 will be priced much more higher than Xduoo XD-05 - I'm 100% sure about this.


----------



## apaar123

ab10 said:


> Q5 will be priced much more higher than Xduoo XD-05 - I'm 100% sure about this.


ya maybe as much as opposed ha2


----------



## ph0n6

Maybe Fiio could release a non-amped model like the X7 and let people choose their amp module, for me 200$ for the main unit is quite reasonable.


----------



## apaar123

Hey which combo is better. A dap with with dual cs4398 DAC and an amp DAC with dual ak4490 or a day with ak4490 and an amp DAC with es9028?


----------



## ClieOS

apaar123 said:


> Hey which combo is better. A dap with with dual cs4398 DAC and an amp DAC with dual ak4490 or a day with ak4490 and an amp DAC with es9028?


 
  
 The one with the best implementation... and yes, there is no such a thing as a simple, straightforward answer to your question. You can make a great DAP with decent chips if you implement them right or you can make a lousy DAP with great chips if you implement them wrong.


----------



## PopZeus

clieos said:


> The one with the best implementation... and yes, there is no such a thing as a simple, straightforward answer to your question. You can make a great DAP with decent chips if you implement them right or you can make a lousy DAP with great chips if you implement them wrong.


 
  
 +1
  
 Although I admit, both my DAP and desktop DAC use the AK4490 and there's something about the smoothness to the treble, as well as the clean presentation across the frequency range that I find completely engrossing. Granted, both the Shanling M5 and Grace m9XX happen to be great expressions of that DAC chip, but they do share a similar musicality even if the Grace is ruler flat and the Shanling sweetens the sound.
  
 I'm not sure how much of the similarities are driven by the DAC but if the Q5 is at all an honest expression of the AK4490, then owners have nothing to worry about.


----------



## goldendarko

This device will work with an iPhone ?


----------



## pranavtripathi

goldendarko said:


> This device will work with an iPhone ?




Yes it will. Fiio recently passed the MFI certification I believe and their devices will be compatible with iOS devices.


----------



## goldendarko

pranavtripathi said:


> Yes it will. Fiio recently passed the MFI certification I believe and their devices will be compatible with iOS devices.


 
 Great thanks, sorry for asking without searching the thread but i didnt want to read 50 pages just to find out . Guess ill pay attention to this device now since i was also looking at the HA-2SE


----------



## Subhakar

goldendarko said:


> Great thanks, sorry for asking without searching the thread but i didnt want to read 50 pages just to find out . Guess ill pay attention to this device now since i was also looking at the HA-2SE




I own HA-2 and I am seriously looking at A5.


----------



## TheoS53

apaar123 said:


> Hey which combo is better. A dap with with dual cs4398 DAC and an amp DAC with dual ak4490 or a day with ak4490 and an amp DAC with es9028?




Don't forget that the amp section also plays a role on the sound signature. Technically the amp *shouldn't*, yet it does. For example, my DX80 sounds fantastic straight from the HO, but if I connect the Fiio E12A it loses it's wonderful sound stage


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> Don't forget that the amp section also plays a role on the sound signature. Technically the amp *shouldn't*, yet it does. For example, my DX80 sounds fantastic straight from the HO, but if I connect the Fiio E12A it loses it's wonderful sound stage


 
  
 AMP plays way more role in signautre than the DAC employed. 
  
 Best examples are DAPs using the exact same DAC chip but having totally different signatures. Even Fiio X5 sounds different from X5ii.


----------



## goldendarko

any word on release date for this?


----------



## Bazirker

I'm super interested in the bluetooth function for this (even though I don't have an iPhone 7.)


----------



## Subhakar

goldendarko said:


> any word on release date for this?


 

 April, 2017, said someone.


----------



## ksojoel

Which one is to be release first, q3 or q5?


----------



## Subhakar

Just my instincts talking but I guess there might be no Q3 at all. Low-end Q1 and high-end Q5, if they price Q5 at around $300.


----------



## obsidyen

Please add USB C port for new Macbook Pro!


----------



## Dobrescu George

obsidyen said:


> Please add USB C port for new Macbook Pro!


 
  
 That thing might not be possible due to apple and their things. 
  
 Wouldn't it be more of a problem of cable, like cannot one buy a cable to use it?


----------



## obsidyen

dobrescu george said:


> That thing might not be possible due to apple and their things.
> 
> Wouldn't it be more of a problem of cable, like cannot one buy a cable to use it?


 
 Not really, USB C is universal. Many Android phones, new Windows laptops and Google Pixel computers have usb c type ports as well. It's the future of USB. 
  
 I can buy a cable but I'd like it if I didn't have to use an extra cable.


----------



## fuzun

Fiio is now collecting opinions on design of Q3. I think it will come after q5.


----------



## Dobrescu George

obsidyen said:


> Not really, USB C is universal. Many Android phones, new Windows laptops and Google Pixel computers have usb c type ports as well. It's the future of USB.
> 
> I can buy a cable but I'd like it if I didn't have to use an extra cable.


 
  
 Oh, that one! 
  
 Most PCs have a 2.0 or 3.0 USB port as the other end of the cable, I think that over 80% of what people do have this type of port - so it would make most sense if FiiO would cover this port with the end of the cable that does not enter the device...


----------



## inertianinja

willywill said:


> Here the final design


 
  
  
 Adding physical buttons to control the music is *GREAT.*
  
 Right now I'm using the Oppo HA-2SE which is nice, but having to look at the phone every time I want to skip a track is just one touch less awesome than it could be.


----------



## willywill

inertianinja said:


> Adding physical buttons to control the music is *GREAT.*
> 
> Right now I'm using the Oppo HA-2SE which is nice, but having to look at the phone every time I want to skip a track is just one touch less awesome than it could be.


 
 I agree with you, i have the E18 and it work perfect with my phone/PC and it works with streaming music services, very handy


----------



## Ab10

Little OT here - I'm wondering - Why there is no discussion thread about Fiio Q3 in this forum ?
  
 https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FFiiOAUDIO%2Fposts%2F1266495790074618&width=500


----------



## Yethal

ab10 said:


> Little OT here - I'm wondering - Why there is no discussion thread about Fiio Q3 in this forum ?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FFiiOAUDIO%2Fposts%2F1266495790074618&width=500


 

 Because it's even less of an actual product than the Q5.


----------



## Bazirker

OMG physical buttons, that looks hawt


----------



## ClieOS

obsidyen said:


> Not really, USB C is universal. Many Android phones, new Windows laptops and Google Pixel computers have usb c type ports as well. It's the future of USB.
> 
> I can buy a cable but I'd like it if I didn't have to use an extra cable.


 
  
 USB-C is fine except that Q5's USB port is located on the amp module itself and not on the Q5's main body. Given all the amp modules already have micro USB and it is a special 11 pins version that also integrated a line-out feature (*making it compatible for X7 and K5 dock), it is very unlikely we will see FiiO using USB-C on Q5 since it will make all the amp modules already made so far incompatible to each other.


----------



## leobigfield

Does it support answering calls when connected to a phone (if i use a headphone with built-in mic)?


----------



## ClieOS

leobigfield said:


> Does it support answering calls when connected to a phone (if i use a headphone with built-in mic)?


 
  
 That would require an input to ADC on the headphone-out, so my guess is no.


----------



## peterzzz

Can't wait for the Q5-AM3 to hit the market, just what I need to drive my cIEMs.

One question though, about the interface between the DAC and amp modules, does that provide a differential signal such that, when coupled with the AM3, you end up with a fully balanced signal path?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Is there an expected release date for the Q5, or is it simply not far enough along in development yet?


----------



## fuzun

Will there be any channel imbalance due to volume potentiometer?


----------



## Dobrescu George

fuzun said:


> Will there be any channel imbalance due to volume potentiometer?


 
  
 We should hope for no imbalance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Most FiiO amps don't have imbalance this far, but I've tested E12 and E12A in depth, the others not in depth, only heard..


----------



## ksojoel

Is there any battery indicator?


----------



## demond

ksojoel said:


> Is there any battery indicator?



 


When battery power less than 20% and 10%, the indicator light flashes to remind, and then will become red.


----------



## mochill

Can't wait for this


----------



## mandrake50

mochill said:


> Can't wait for this


 

 just curious... if you "can't" what will happen to you while you do?
  
  
 Always have wondered when people say that... really, just curious.


----------



## OneL0ve

mandrake50 said:


> just curious... if you "can't" what will happen to you while you do?
> 
> 
> Always have wondered when people say that... really, just curious.:evil:




You must be fun at parties.


----------



## Marco Angel

Im in for this DAC, all my daps are now being sold by now and the new music interface will by my upcoming S7 =D


----------



## mochill

mandrake50 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Can't wait for this
> ...


 

 ​will have to enjoy my x7 with am3 am5 and ra2,0


----------



## Bazirker

onel0ve said:


> You must be fun at parties.


 
  
 LOL
  
 I'm also pretty stoked about this, really looking forward to being able to wire up my headphones, put this in my pocket, and then use bluetooth such that I stop getting tangled up in my IEM cord every time I want to use my phone  :-D


----------



## Marco Angel

Happy new year to everyone, special thanks to Fiio for the great effort and products you been creating!


----------



## FiiO

marco angel said:


> Happy new year to everyone, special thanks to Fiio for the great effort and products you been creating!


 
 Thanks, Marco.
  
 Happy new year!




 Best regards


----------



## Subhakar

So, Q5 is on the same lines as X5-III minus the player in terms of chips and tuning?


----------



## peterzzz

@FiiO, is there any estimate on the background noise of the Q5, because I can clearly hear the noise floor on my Q1 with Low gain. I'm very much hoping the Q5 will be significantly better.


----------



## FiiO

peterzzz said:


> @FiiO, is there any estimate on the background noise of the Q5, because I can clearly hear the noise floor on my Q1 with Low gain. I'm very much hoping the Q5 will be significantly better.


 
 Dear peterzzz,
  
 The project of Q5 is still in the progress. We will try our best to produce a good product to satisfy more users. For the noise with your Q1, will you hear the noise still if you change another headphones or cables?
  
 Best regards


----------



## peterzzz

My Q1 is dead quiet when using less efficient headphones, like my HD380. But using my JH3x-Pro customs I clearly hear the noise floor. This, I feel, is a combination of the incredible noise isolation offered by custom IEMs and the efficiency of their drivers.

I am looking forward to using the Q5-AM3 combination with your balanced cable (RC-78B), but worry about the noise floor...


----------



## sjb57

If, say, Q5 @£90 + AM5@£90 then will Q5 + AM5 = Mojo @ < 50% cost? Or, is it just a Creative e5?


----------



## SP Wild

Sounds like a good product.

I hope the Apple certification didn't come at a cost to Android and laptop users like it did for Oppo HA2 and they did nothing about it on the SE update.

Get this, I am forced to use the supplied tiny micro USB cable to go from Android to Oppo, thus forced to use the rubber bands which creates logic shorts in my brain (for this to pass the logic test the dac amp must be taller than the phone and with 5.7 screens fast becoming the norm...). Any other cable and the unit depletes my laptop and phone battery at a phenomenal rate.

Will the Q5 also drain my laptop and phone batteries at an alarming rate without a 'special' USB cable like Oppo does?

Is Bluetooth able to broadcast 320 MP3 without downgrading and conversion?

Should I take a sledgehammer to my Oppo HA2?


----------



## Sonic Defender

sp wild said:


> Sounds like a good product.


 
 Just use Bluetooth, it sounds every bit as good as lossless. I'll bet in blind listening tests you couldn't tell one from the other. And yes, Apt X is capable of sample rates up to I believe 360 or 380 so very good quality. No need to connect your phone by a cable.


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> sp wild said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a good product.
> ...


 

 Frankly I am very surprised that you wrote that. Standard Bluetooth is horribly compressed. Worse that 128K MP3. Aptx is better, but still lossy. I did a little test, though not blind with some folks at work using their Bose headphones. I just had them swap (4 of them) to a wired connection with the same source, Without exception they all were pretty amazed at the improvement the wired connection made. AND, they all wanted to believe going in that it would not make any noticeable improvement. That wager that I couldn't tell the difference... what is it that you want to bet?


----------



## Brooko

mandrake50 said:


> *Frankly I am very surprised that you wrote that. Standard Bluetooth is horribly compressed. Worse that 128K MP3*. Aptx is better, but still lossy. I did a little test, though not blind with some folks at work using their Bose headphones. I just had them swap (4 of them) to a wired connection with the same source, Without exception they all were pretty amazed at the improvement the wired connection made. AND, they all wanted to believe going in that it would not make any noticeable improvement. That wager that I couldn't tell the difference... what is it that you want to bet?


 
  
 Frankly - I'm surprised you did too.
  
 A2DP which is supported can natively transmit aac up to 328 kbps.  aac256 is generally accepted to be as good as MP3 @ 320 kbps, and so far no-one I know has been able to successfully abx aac256 from CD / redbook quality.
  
 AptX lossless is already hitting 24/96 - note that I do not know if this is supported on the Q5.
  
 Personally I cannot tell wireless bluetooth from wired when using aac256 - and definitely not in a noisier portable environment.
  
 The time that Bluetooth was more compressed than 128k was years ago.
  
 I'd suggest you and your friends repeat the test with decent gear, in a controlled environment (ie volume matched and blind).  See how easy it is then.  I think you'll be definitely surprised.


----------



## Sonic Defender

It is shocking to see the level of entrenched negative attitudes people have regarding Bluetooth, and often accompanied by ignorance. It is common knowledge that Apt X can even go above a 320 sample rate which essentially means at that point sample rate is transparent to the user. Bluetooth is capable of extremely high quality audio and in the not to distant future cables will be less common, even among TOTL home based headphones, IMO.


----------



## trellus

On my cheaper Bluetooth headphones (like my $60 Symphonized Sensation on-ear), I can tell a little bit the difference between wireless and wired, but even there's it's honestly not a lot of difference, and I reckon that to be possibly due to a cheaper DAC/amp in the headphones.
  
 One question I have, though, and I wonder whether you or @Brooko might know the answer, is whether when using aptX whether the sending device has to re-encode the audio to some standard (what does aptX use, AAC?) or whether if the source is already in that codec, if it can merely stream the file as-is.  If it has to re-encode the audio, that's obviously a place where wired would be superior to wireless, right?
  
 I've noticed that some BT headphones advertise support aptX and others for AAC and others both, but it's not clear to me what codec aptX supports, and in either scenario whether re-encoding has to take place.
  
 I've always assumed (but I don't know for sure, unfortunately) that my AAC-enabled BT headphones are just getting my iPhone's source file streamed when I'm using the iOS Music app, since those files are natively AAC already (either 128kbps or 256kbps more often).
  
 I've also assumed that Spotify music streamed from my iPhone to my AAC-enabled BT headphones have to be transcoded on the fly from whatever Spotify is using (Ogg Vorbis?) by the Apple BT stack to the headphones, which would result in further degradation (whether perceptible is arguable of course) over streaming them wired through my headphone out (I still have one, I have a 6S Plus).
  
 I don't know how this works for aptX but I assume something similar, but I almost never use aptX since I almost never stream from an aptX-enabled device.  (I rarely stream from my Mac to BT, since I just used wired headphones there.)
  
 Quote:


sonic defender said:


> It is shocking to see the level of entrenched negative attitudes people have regarding Bluetooth, and often accompanied by ignorance. It is common knowledge that Apt X can even go above a 320 sample rate which essentially means at that point sample rate is transparent to the user. Bluetooth is capable of extremely high quality audio and in the not to distant future cables will be less common, even among TOTL home based headphones, IMO.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@trellus, I wish I could give you a very succinct and technologically sound rationale for why I think Bluetooth audio via apt X is up to the task, but I can't. It is easy to go and read technical positions, get a basic understanding and come here and regurgitate information and sound very knowledgeable. The problem with that is purely technological interpretations/discussions tend to obfuscate what people really want to get at, and how does technology y affect the sound. Not that I'm suggesting attempting to understand the technological merits of packets and decoding/encoding aren't important, not at all, but I think a great deal of that information is simply academic. I use my ears, and if I can't tell the difference then frankly, it really doesn't matter why. Perhaps there are encoding/decoding issues and loss or addition, but in all likelihood, we can't hear it. I'm sure we can measure these things and theorize about micro-detail loss, but I would still return to my position, if we can't practically hear something, well then for me, it doesn't practically exist.
  
 Like you I am interested in the science behind this, and I frequently do read about such things, but ultimately the science can become a little dense and theoretical and it really doesn't help me greatly so I just end up back at square one and I press play.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I honestly always had problems with bluetooth in terms of losing the connection more than hearing a difference between bluetooth and mp3 320. 
  
 Not sure if it's a local thing in Romania or if its something I did wrong or if I haven't tested the better devices but what I experienced were micro stutters and dropouts. Quality was generally the same as mp3 320 more or less.
  
 I can generally tell mp3 320 from flac in a blind test - but it comes as such because I listen mainly to music that really has information in that area - like metal that abuses the cymblas. With classical I wasn't that able to tell the difference. Nor with most pop music. The difference is there with symphonic metal tho - some really backward instruments get cut out, they must look like noise to the algorithm, but yeah, I don't think that most people would feel mp3 vs flac much.
  
 - Might also be because I master music comercially and I have tested exactly what the difference is between mp3 and flac so I know exactly what the difference is. Audio masters run a series of processes to make sure that music is rather radio friendly, so I can assure you that most must was thought to not lose much during mp3 conversion, or at least the engineers knew what they were doing -
  
 Tho too much brutal metal is slowly becoming  a thing that I could name (obnoxious) or that induces too much stress to listen to so for practical reasons mp3 320 should be enough for most people. My codec of choice when going compressed is ogg -q10. Wasn't able to tell the difference between it and flac and probably won't be anytime soon.
  
 Edit::: I would love bluetooth if it didn't drop out on me, so first moment I'm laying me hands on a set that works flawlessly Imma praise it


----------



## mandrake50

brooko said:


> mandrake50 said:
> 
> 
> > *Frankly I am very surprised that you wrote that. Standard Bluetooth is horribly compressed. Worse that 128K MP3*. Aptx is better, but still lossy. I did a little test, though not blind with some folks at work using their Bose headphones. I just had them swap (4 of them) to a wired connection with the same source, Without exception they all were pretty amazed at the improvement the wired connection made. AND, they all wanted to believe going in that it would not make any noticeable improvement. That wager that I couldn't tell the difference... what is it that you want to bet?
> ...


 

 There are lots of things going on here. Even if a device supports a given codec, if the source does not, the *lowest common* *denominator* is used. The lowest level of SBC is indeed worse that 128k MP3.Both ends must support AAC, or both support AptX. And signal strenght must support the codec being used. Also there is usually no indication what is being used.
  
 One other thing to consider is that the design is to fall back to a lesser codec when signal strength is too low to provide the required bandwidth, which is another variable to be taken into consideration. Being low power radio, Bluetooth is also extremely sensitive to interference. Which is a fact of life in todays world. I am not surprised that some complain of dropouts and disconnects.
  
 The little anecdotal test that I did , is what it is. I did volume match by ear. All were using Bluetooth from recent vintage HP laptops and all with the Bose 35 headphones. Who know what codec was being used, but the results are as I reported.
 So is Bluetooth "capable" of getting reasonable sound, perhaps it is, but I have yet to hear a situation where eliminating the bluetooth link with a wire did not quite apparently improve the sound quality.
  
 As you point out in a later post, if you can't hear it, it likely doesn't matter. Which I actually agree with. But if you can, then use the best method. In the case that I point out, and so far all that I have heard, getting rid of the radio link does make a difference, a quite audible one at that. For those not operating in the best of all possible situations, Bluetooth is not an audiophile solution. This is why I said I am surprised that you said what you di originally. I have read what you write for quite some time and normally find that what you say agrees with my outlook well. This was/is just very foreign to my experience.
  
 BTW, AptX cannot "natively"  transmit 24/96, Everything is encoded using a lossy codec and decoded using the same. Honestly I have not used a quality source and sync that I can verify are actually using AptX to do a proper test. The same with AAC. I imagine that what I have heard is SBS using some level of that codec... again, unknown. And it sounds crappy.  Remember, if you can hear it, it is significant. Now I would wager that the vast majority of people using Bluetooth are hearing crappy SBC... hence the results of my little test.


----------



## Brooko

You made an assertation :  *Standard Bluetooth is horribly compressed. Worse that 128K MP3*.
  
 The standard today is very different.
  
 And any test without volume matching properly, or trying to volume match by ear isn't a valid test.  We humans can discern changes of as little as 1-2 dB, and anything louder we regard as better quality.  Its how we are wired (pardon the pun).
  
 If you reread my post - I did not claim aptx can transmit 24/96 natively.  I did say that they are already hitting that bandwidth - look it up, its happening today.
  
 A2DP has been achieving aac256 for quite a while now - and that is native (no recoding)
  
 I'm just pointing out the flaws in your test, and the misinformation in your post. You're welcome to disagree - but I'd prefer anyone seeing the post also sees the flaws in the methodology, and doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.


----------



## mandrake50

brooko said:


> You made an assertation :  *Standard Bluetooth is horribly compressed. Worse that 128K MP3*.
> 
> The standard today is very different.
> 
> ...


 

 OK. I would hope that anyone reading what I wrote would realize that it was far from a scientific study, more anecdotal evidence. I doubt that anyone would read what I wrote and accept it as gospel. At least I hope not.
  
 BTW the assertion holds for all but the highest levels of SBC, which many devices, still cannot do. The claim of APTx is "equivalent" to Redbook  16/44.1, but lossy. That is fine, I want to try it one day. Perhaps it will change my mind on Bluetooth and its capabilities. But it is not native.
  
 How do I interpret this? "AptX lossless is already hitting 24/96 -" First APTx is not lossless, it can't be, it is a lossy codec. Superior to SBC, yes, but still lossy. And it adjusts for available bandwidth... that is the Adaptive part of ADPCM. Signal strength determines bandwidth...
  
 In any case there are few devices that can do AAC encoding/decoding .. on either end, even though it has been part of the spec for years. If either side does not support it, or APTx, it falls back to some level of SBC, which can be and often is  pretty bad. It alos means that the data from that I device will be transcoded if both sides to not support it. In fact, from what I have read, it will be transcoded in any case.
  
 I wonder how many people know that iDevices set SBC encoding to low or medium at best? The user has to make changes to force the highest resolution variant of SBC... for most of the devices that do not support AAC .
  
 I will have to check out what the HP laptops are capable of. Though being Elitebooks and less than a year old, they are probably pretty representative of what people are listening to...in general. Maybe even superior.
  
 Anyway, I will do some more listening. I think my next phone will likely support APTx...even though those that do give you no way of knowing that they are actually using it. Now all I need to do is to find a decent sync that supports it. Maybe the Q5 will be it. Now to devise a good ABX test.
  
 Peace brother...


----------



## trellus

I would be surprised if that is often the case in practice, at least coming from smartphones, particularly from iOS devices.  
  
 I thought that iOS would just transmit AAC content directly without transcoding but after some investigation, while I can't be 100% sure about it, it does seem to make sense that in order for other audio streams (such as notification sounds or GPS voice navigation overlaid over music) to be mixed in with native AAC content (as from the iOS Music app), the mixed audio stream would have to be transcoded so that it has all the audio streamed together.
  
 I'm not making the case that this makes for a substantial decrease in quality, mind you; my experience with my iPhone and a few headphones that support AAC (Sony MDR ZX770BN, Harman Kardon BT, JBL Everest Elite 300, for example) is that the difference between my iPhone 6s Plus's headphone port to those same headphones and BT with AAC to them, is very difficult for me to discern, if at all, with most music.  
  
 I certainly recall several years ago with much lesser BT headphones that had nothing beyond older versions of SBC that the quality was significantly less than most cheap wired headphones, and that certainly isn't the case today.
  
 Quote:


brooko said:


> *A2DP has been achieving aac256 for quite a while now - and that is native (no recoding)*
> 
> I'm just pointing out the flaws in your test, and the misinformation in your post. You're welcome to disagree - but I'd prefer anyone seeing the post also sees the flaws in the methodology, and doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.


----------



## mandrake50

I found some info on BT and 24/96. It is a Sony proprietary codec. LDAC.
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/what-is-sony-ldac-and-how-does-it-do-it-408285
 
 Follow-up discussion with the engineers... as it really can't be done with the current specced bandwidth.
  
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/soundimage/sony-ldac-8212-questions-and-answers-437885
  
Still a lossy codec and merely  "equivalent" to 24/96, not close to native. But it sounds like it would end my issues with BT.
Too bad it is a Sony proprietary codec.
  
Also, apparently BT 5 will increase bandwidth by 8 times. Now we are talking lossless Redbook, and maybe 24/96 (but that is around 4.5 MB/S). So we will see.
  
Good times ahead it seems. I would like to get rid of the wires. Especially if the sound is indistinguishable. 
We still need to deal with signal strength, interference, and battery usage...


----------



## Sonic Defender

I have owned several BT headphones this last year, they all had rock solid connection stability, excellent range and fantastic sound so even in the current state I find BT 4.1 and apt X excellent in all respects, but that is just my personal experience.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sonic defender said:


> I have owned several BT headphones this last year, they all had rock solid connection stability, excellent range and fantastic sound so even in the current state I find BT 4.1 and apt X excellent in all respects, but that is just my personal experience.


 
  
  
 Really gotta test a few more as I'm not content with having a bias against something that seemingly works absolutely marvelous for others


----------



## Sonic Defender

dobrescu george said:


> Really gotta test a few more as I'm not content with having a bias against something that seemingly works absolutely marvelous for others


 
 You really should. Bluetooth has been a revelation for me. I made the switch for portable with no regrets. Before the switch I was using a PM3 driven balanced with a DP-X1 and custom cable. Got sick of the cable, switched to BT and couldn't believe just how good the sound quality was. Certainly for portable use there is no contest, ditching the cable is a huge advantage, the theoretical tiny sound quality drop with BT (and I can't hear it) is such a small thing that being free of a cable simply dwarfs the supposed quality drop, IMO.


----------



## demond

sp wild said:


> Sounds like a good product.
> 
> I hope the Apple certification didn't come at a cost to Android and laptop users like it did for Oppo HA2 and they did nothing about it on the SE update.
> 
> ...


 
 Q5 will provide a short cable from type-C to micro USB. Convenience to use Q5 Andriod phone,
 Bluetooth support APTX.
 Oppo HA2 is a very good product.


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> dobrescu george said:
> 
> 
> > Really gotta test a few more as I'm not content with having a bias against something that seemingly works absolutely marvelous for others
> ...


 

 What headphones and source are you using. Like George, this conversation has piqued my interest.
 Have you ever done a volume matched ABX test between wired and BT?  Just curious.


----------



## Sonic Defender

mandrake50 said:


> What headphones and source are you using. Like George, this conversation has piqued my interest.
> Have you ever done a volume matched ABX test between wired and BT?  Just curious.


 
 Currently I am using the B&W P7 wireless and the ONKYO H500BT, also a wireless. No, I haven't done any testing per say as the only testing that I consider valid is blind testing and up to this point I haven't had anyway to do such a test on my own. My comments are made from the perspective of simply listening. I do intend to actually do a multiple trial, blind listening test to see I can tell the difference, but such a test will be challenging to conduct well. Source for BT listening is my LG G4. Cheers.


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> mandrake50 said:
> 
> 
> > What headphones and source are you using. Like George, this conversation has piqued my interest.
> ...


 

 As mentioned... I will have to do more testing with better equipment. I would be very interested to read of your  scientific testing. It is indeed hard, because it is almost impossible to isolate the radio from the DAC.
 I am sincerely interested.


----------



## Sonic Defender

mandrake50 said:


> As mentioned... I will have to do more testing with better equipment. I would be very interested to read of your  scientific testing. It is indeed hard, because it is almost impossible to isolate the radio from the DAC.
> I am sincerely interested.


 
 I'm not sure why I would need to isolate anything? The testing would simply be about the perception of the sound signature in an effort to see if wired is perceived as sounding better. Maybe I'm missing something? Likely, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sonic defender said:


> I'm not sure why I would need to isolate anything? The testing would simply be about the perception of the sound signature in an effort to see if wired is perceived as sounding better. Maybe I'm missing something? Likely, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.


 
  
 You're not really missing anything. 
  
 Ultimately this is what matters - how the sound is in the earphone and how we perceive it. 
  
 Regardless if it's a very smart DSP, pure lossless fiel or a reconstruction filter - as long as the final result is very good - the objective is achieved. Our hobby is to listen to music and enjoy it. 


mandrake50 said:


> As mentioned... I will have to do more testing with better equipment. I would be very interested to read of your  scientific testing. It is indeed hard, because it is almost impossible to isolate the radio from the DAC.
> I am sincerely interested.


 
  
  
 To be honest, I experienced really bad sound and dropouts when testing bluetooth for music - nothing like a small degradation of the signal or slight changes.To scientifically test the differences, we would need a lot of equipment, and especially to measure how the signal measures before entering the headphones themselves. Measuring the headphone\s output would also measure their characteristics, not only the DAC and how bluetooth actually does... 
  
  
  
 I'll be honest - Bluetooth seems like a so and so idea to me because I'm using hard to drive headphones and those sound the best in general aaaaaaand I like bright signatures which are quite specific - ie800 signature exactly - which isn't found yet on bluetooth headphones.


----------



## WitzyZed

My 2¢, any Bluetooth headphones I ever used had a slight volume drop in wireless vs wired. That alone would cause a perceived drop in quality even though it's just volume.


----------



## fuzun

sjb57 said:


> If, say, Q5 @£90 + AM5@£90 then will Q5 + AM5 = Mojo @ < 50% cost? Or, is it just a Creative e5?


 
 I think Q5 will be $300 MSRP alone which is £245.


----------



## sjb57

fuzun said:


> I think Q5 will be $300 MSRP alone which is £245.


 

 ​Wow, £245+£90 is not cheap when current market leading Mojo is £399 retail. Seems I'll need to buy combined DAP/DAC like Fiio X5(3).


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> mandrake50 said:
> 
> 
> > As mentioned... I will have to do more testing with better equipment. I would be very interested to read of your  scientific testing. It is indeed hard, because it is almost impossible to isolate the radio from the DAC.
> ...


 

 I thought we were discussing what Bluetooth and various codecs did to the sound. Thought certainly the end result is what is important...sure if "you" (the indefinite you in this case) like it or don't mind the defects considering the convenience...great. But is we go back to the :scientific: testing concept, it would be good to know what the process is doing. From there we can say "I don't care" but at least we know. I have seen some interesting tests with measurements using different systems to show measureable differences in SBC and AptX, but the different radios and inputs into different devices introduce too many variables. To be honest, most of the differences were what is normally considered to be sub-audible. But around here no one agrees what that means, or even if it is relevant.
  
 Of course the bottom line is what each person is willing to accept to get where they want to be. Personally I just want to know what is going on under the hood. It is definitely simply a matter of curiosity, because I find it highly unlikely that I will ever use anything Bluetooth for any level of serious listening. But I still would like to know. As of know, I haven't seen anyone come up with a method of testing that will really show me this. Isolating the DAC and directly comparing the output with the various codes would be a big step in that direction.
  
 So that is what you are missing, but only from my perspective.


----------



## Sonic Defender

mandrake50 said:


> So that is what you are missing, but only from my perspective.


 
 Our hearing brain isn't that sensitive. These tiny, tiny, tiny measureable differences aren't detectable by the brain. I still don't think you need to isolate anything. If there is an audible difference it will be, well audible. Simply use the same headphone and defeat the BT and use the cable, then compare when BT is enabled. That way the only change you will be confronted with is when BT is enabled or disabled.
  
 Edit: I re-read your post and have to acknolwedge that you are also looking at this from a pure is it measureable point of view and not simply is it audible. My apology for failing to mention that was also an area of concern for you.


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> mandrake50 said:
> 
> 
> > So that is what you are missing, but only from my perspective.
> ...


 

 Yup, I want to see what it going on.
 However, you have motivated me to try some better listening tests and at least give it a shot.
 Besides liking to play with audio, I am also an "old" radio guy. Part of my bias is that I have yet to come across anything transmitted by RF that is not inferior to a wired connection. Even old dogs can learn new tricks though.
 RF can send hires pictures from Pluto... it just takes a week...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (don't take that too literally, please).


----------



## Sonic Defender

mandrake50 said:


> Yup, I want to see what it going on.
> However, you have motivated me to try some better listening tests and at least give it a shot.
> Besides liking to play with audio, I am also an "old" radio guy. Part of my bias is that I have yet to come across anything transmitted by RF that is not inferior to a wired connection. Even old dogs can learn new tricks though.
> RF can send hires pictures from Pluto... it just takes a week...
> ...


 
 LOL, no worries, and I was convinced that BT was going to sound crappy, or at least obviously compromised. I was pleasantly surprised. I suspect if I worked really hard at it, perhaps I might be able to detect some differences, but when I use my BT out and about everything sounds like it always did. Prior to going BT I was using an Oppo PM3 driven balanced from a DP-X1 using only lossless files so you would expect the transition to BT would be a letdown, but I was so happy that within a few days I sold the PM3 and the DP-X1 being now perfectly happy streaming from my phone. At home I don't mind wires most of the time, but I look forward to that changing when TOTL headphones start becoming wireless. I'm thinking within 3 years at most almost every major player will have $1000 + BT critical listening headphones designed for home use. Bold prediction I know, but I feel confident of that. Audio Technica is already doing so (well not 1K plus, but almost a grand).


----------



## sjb57

sonic defender said:


> I'm thinking within 3 years at most almost every major player will have $1000 + BT critical listening headphones designed for home use. Bold prediction I know, but I feel confident of that. Audio Technica is already doing so (well not 1K plus, but almost a grand).


 
 I think forthcoming BT5 will transform our whole experience and be less than that?


----------



## mandrake50

sjb57 said:


> sonic defender said:
> 
> 
> > I'm thinking within 3 years at most almost every major player will have $1000 + BT critical listening headphones designed for home use. Bold prediction I know, but I feel confident of that. Audio Technica is already doing so (well not 1K plus, but almost a grand).
> ...


 

 With around 8 times the bandwidth (and hopefully a bit better transmitter power) it certainly has the potential to make things much better.
 It will be a while before it becomes mainstream though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I beg to differ, respectfully, I think the transition to mainstream can and will move fairly swiftly. Already in portable audio the trend towards wireless is firmly established and there is zero doubt that all major players are staking a wireless claim in that space. And why wouldn't they, consumers are very receptive it seems. Once the initial doubts and fears about the sound quality of BT are overcome, the first major player who tests the waters and produces a well done, home use design flagship headphone, others will follow. I'm not saying wires arte just going to vanish over-night, but lets face it, wires are an impediment not an enhancer, and it is eminently supportable that all things being equal, most people would happily lose the wire.
  
 The other thing to consider is that you get the best of both with BT, you can also defeat the circuitry and go wired when and if you wish. As circuitry gets smaller and better, there is no reason that very high performance amp and DAC circuits can be used with BT systems.


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> I beg to differ, respectfully, I think the transition to mainstream can and will move fairly swiftly. Already in portable audio the trend towards wireless is firmly established and there is zero doubt that all major players are staking a wireless claim in that space. And why wouldn't they, consumers are very receptive it seems. Once the initial doubts and fears about the sound quality of BT are overcome, the first major player who tests the waters and produces a well done, home use design flagship headphone, others will follow. I'm not saying wires arte just going to vanish over-night, but lets face it, wires are an impediment not an enhancer, and it is eminently supportable that all things being equal, most people would happily lose the wire.
> 
> The other thing to consider is that you get the best of both with BT, you can also defeat the circuitry and go wired when and if you wish. As circuitry gets smaller and better, there is no reason that very high performance amp and DAC circuits can be used with BT systems.


 

 IIRC it took a several  years to get to where most devices coming out had 4.x. The specification came out in 2010. It is not unreasonable to think that Bluetooth 5 will take 5 years or more to become mainstream.
 Of course more expensive devices such as high end headphones and cell phones will be early adopters. That will take time even here. I believe that the 5.0 specification was just approved last December. The Bluetooth SIG claims that it will have 33% market penetration by 2020. That is great, but not mainstream. I doubt that the Q5 will ever see it.
  
 We will see, the sooner the better, obviously, but historically these things take more time than you might think,
  
 Well, if nothing else, this conversation has caused me to learn quite a bit about Bluetooth. It has come a long way since I was using Bluetooth high power dongles to get an Internet connection to my laptop in the garage 12+ years ago.


----------



## Sonic Defender

mandrake50 said:


> We will see, the sooner the better, obviously, but historically these things take more time than you might think,


 
 I think we can mostly agree, 5 years seems reasonable to suggest, but the speed of market shifts can be surprising and I think with how well received BT is in general companies will now put significant R&D and production resources into projects where perhaps in the early years the pace was slower as the business case was just being tested/established? As you say, we'll just have to wait and see. Good talking to you about this.


----------



## triplew

Sorry, removed my post as found some insightful answer in earlier posts from all the experts. May I ask what does the dual mode Bluetooth mean? I can use Bluetooth to steam to Q5 from smartphone, then use BT to stream to my BT earphone from Q5 at the same time?


----------



## SP Wild

I have owned a logitech bluetooth receiver that has line out so you can turn any stereo into Bluetooth. 

I didn't do any critical listening, but assumed it was full data being transmittef, didn't sound bad to me at all, and cost fifty bucks. 

Someone in this forum told me that it was not lossless with bluetooth and I was surprised. 

Not sure if I can tell the difference between 320 and lossless, last time I tried with HD595 Sens, ages ago, they sounded the same. 

320 is enough for me to use to evaluate tubes, amps, dacs and headphones.


----------



## peterzzz

Could we perhaps stop the endless bluetooth chatter and keep things relevant?


----------



## Dobrescu George

peterzzz said:


> Could we perhaps stop the endless bluetooth chatter and keep things relevant?


 
  
 What do you mean? 
  
 Q5 being a bluetooth DAC makes BT kinda relevant to the thread.


----------



## FiiO

triplew said:


> Sorry, removed my post as found some insightful answer in earlier posts from all the experts. May I ask what does the dual mode Bluetooth mean? I can use Bluetooth to steam to Q5 from smartphone, then use BT to stream to my BT earphone from Q5 at the same time?


 
 Dear triplew,
  
 The Q5 only has the function of receiving Bluetooth signal.
  
 Two-way transmission:  allows it to receive Bluetooth signal while sending Bluetooth signal.
 (RM1 can be used at the same time when Bluetooth headphone or Bluetooth speaker is on.)
  
 It is the function for the player. The Q5 is a DAC but not a front-end device, so we don't consider adding sending Bluetooth function in the Q5 by now. 
  
Best regards


----------



## triplew

fiio said:


> Dear triplew,
> 
> The Q5 only has the function of receiving Bluetooth signal.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for the clarification, it makes sense as i saw somewhere before the Q5 is advertised with Dual Mode Bluetooth thus confused me.
 I assumed the sound will be great considering it uses high end DAC to do the analog conversion compared to tiny DAC in bluetooth headphone, i'm really attracted to this feature! Imagine get rid of stripe, the DAC remains in pocket and I can use my phone as per normal, think that's what Mojo Poly trying to sell too, though it sparks strong debate among some ppl.
 Hope to see Q5 and Q3 release soon~!


----------



## int_architect

Was just about to pull the trigger on the A5 when research lead me here. Just finished reading all posts. Fiio, you've got a future Q5 buyer waiting patiently for its release!


----------



## Sonic Defender

triplew said:


> Thanks a lot for the clarification, it makes sense as i saw somewhere before the Q5 is advertised with Dual Mode Bluetooth thus confused me.
> I assumed the sound will be great considering it uses high end DAC to do the analog conversion compared to tiny DAC in bluetooth headphone, i'm really attracted to this feature! Imagine get rid of stripe, the DAC remains in pocket and I can use my phone as per normal, think that's what Mojo Poly trying to sell too, though it sparks strong debate among some ppl.
> Hope to see Q5 and Q3 release soon~!


 
 If you are using Bluetooth I am pretty sure the DAC in the headphone will be doing the processing, so even if the DAC stage in the Q5 isn't bypassed for BT output (not entirely sure if it is or isn't) the signal is still going to be "re-interpreted" by the BT receiver chipset, unless I am misunderstanding how things happen, which is possible as I'm not an expert by any stretch.


----------



## triplew

sonic defender said:


> If you are using Bluetooth I am pretty sure the DAC in the headphone will be doing the processing, so even if the DAC stage in the Q5 isn't bypassed for BT output (not entirely sure if it is or isn't) the signal is still going to be "re-interpreted" by the BT receiver chipset, unless I am misunderstanding how things happen, which is possible as I'm not an expert by any stretch.



Yup I got what you mean, I might be wrong.
Sample below, if not wrong, a Bluetooth chipset solution would have built in DAC already (just random sample, not saying Q5 using this)
http://www.csr.com/products/csr8630

Anyway, I think FiiO will not explain this into details, lets just wait for the product release and see how it goes


----------



## mandrake50

triplew said:


> sonic defender said:
> 
> 
> > If you are using Bluetooth I am pretty sure the DAC in the headphone will be doing the processing, so even if the DAC stage in the Q5 isn't bypassed for BT output (not entirely sure if it is or isn't) the signal is still going to be "re-interpreted" by the BT receiver chipset, unless I am misunderstanding how things happen, which is possible as I'm not an expert by any stretch.
> ...


 

 Each chipset has to have the radio and a means to decode the available encoding schemes. At least all of them that I have been able to read about. So it has to have a DAC. It would be neat if there was just the radio and a direct output to the internal DAC on a device. Unfortunately evne if such a radio existed,  I also don't know of any standalone DAC in the sense we understand them that can decode the specific codecs used in Bluetooth. Maybe one day.


----------



## FiiO

int_architect said:


> Was just about to pull the trigger on the A5 when research lead me here. Just finished reading all posts. Fiio, you've got a future Q5 buyer waiting patiently for its release!


 
 Dear int_architect,
  
 Thank you for your support to us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Best regards


----------



## int_architect

fiio said:


> Dear int_architect,
> 
> Thank you for your support to us.
> 
> Best regards




My pleasure. I really enjoyed reading about the development of the Q5, and FiiO's openness to input from the community. I shared this thread with a friend who owns the A5, and he's ready to buy the Q5 as well!


----------



## Sonic Defender

I don't think FiiO (or any company for that matter) should ever make an amp/DAC without Bluetooth again. Bluetooth is fairly inexpensive to implement and offers so much more flexibility for customers. I will likely try the Q5 and would enjoy reviewing it once it becomes available.


----------



## peterzzz

dobrescu george said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Q5 being a bluetooth DAC makes BT kinda relevant to the thread.


 

 Sorry for the slow response, life got in the way.
  
 Yes, I know the Q5 has BT features, and discussion on the specifics of what the Q5 will or will not do with BT seem appropriate. Its just that I felt the whole discussion on the merit of BT as a whole was getting fairly off topic. One's opinion on the merit of BT is irrelevant, Q5 will have it, do with it what you will.
  
 In any case, no offence meant, and I understand the urge to fill the void while we patiently (or not) wait for the Q5 to become available.


----------



## peterzzz

sonic defender said:


> I don't think FiiO (or any company for that matter) should ever make an amp/DAC without Bluetooth again. Bluetooth is fairly inexpensive to implement and offers so much more flexibility for customers. I will likely try the Q5 and would enjoy reviewing it once it becomes available.


 

 There is a fairly solid engineering argument to be made to not have radios in the same enclosure as your audio equipment. I much prefer a lower noise floor over having BT, then again, if there's a knob to switch it off, I'm all for offering the option.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Will the Q5 have full MQA playback capabilities?


----------



## Dobrescu George

theeldestboy said:


> Will the Q5 have full MQA playback capabilities?


 
  
 Why is everybody asking about MQA these days?... 
  
 CDs are still RedBook..


----------



## goldendarko

dobrescu george said:


> Why is everybody asking about MQA these days?...
> 
> CDs are still RedBook..


Because MQA is hi res (24/96, 24/192, etc.) whereas CD is still 16/44.1. And considering we only got lossless CD quality streaming not too long ago with TIDAL, its kind of crazy the ability to stream hi res music.


----------



## Dobrescu George

goldendarko said:


> Because MQA is hi res (24/96, 24/192, etc.) whereas CD is still 16/44.1. And considering we only got lossless CD quality streaming not too long ago with TIDAL, its kind of crazy the ability to stream hi res music.


 
  
 Do you listen to the bands that do exist in MQA though? 
  
 Wouldn't it rely on the transport too? Like isn't it possible to decode the file in the software of the transport before sending it to the DAC?


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Watch the latest episode of Head-fi TV for a good explanation of MQA:

https://youtu.be/hLFJBuX1zj0


----------



## goldendarko

dobrescu george said:


> Do you listen to the bands that do exist in MQA though?
> 
> Wouldn't it rely on the transport too? Like isn't it possible to decode the file in the software of the transport before sending it to the DAC?


 

 Yes, there's plenty of good music already in MQA (basically most of the music that was already available in Hi-Res), but I think they will need to keep releasing new music in MQA for it to remain viable, can't just rest on their laurels with what they've got so far obviously.
  
 Yes, right now for me TIDAL does the decoding to hi res (24/96 i believe) since my DAC is not an MQA DAC (Yggdrasil & Modi Multibit) I certainly wouldn't buy a new DAC just for MQA, but if you use TIDAL on your computer, and have a DAC that can play  hi-res music, why wouldn't you use MQA?


----------



## Dobrescu George

theeldestboy said:


> Watch the latest episode of Head-fi TV for a good explanation of MQA:
> 
> https://youtu.be/hLFJBuX1zj0


  
  
 I've seen the episode, doesn't it mean that MQA can be processed by any CPU? I don't think I got it right 

  
 Quote:


goldendarko said:


> Yes, there's plenty of good music already in MQA (basically most of the music that was already available in Hi-Res), but I think they will need to keep releasing new music in MQA for it to remain viable, can't just rest on their laurels with what they've got so far obviously.
> 
> Yes, right now for me TIDAL does the decoding to hi res (24/96 i believe) since my DAC is not an MQA DAC (Yggdrasil & Modi Multibit) I certainly wouldn't buy a new DAC just for MQA, but if you use TIDAL on your computer, and have a DAC that can play  hi-res music, why wouldn't you use MQA?


 
  
 Because I don't stream at all and I am using RedBook FLAC files as much as I can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The day Tidal adds the bands I listen to to their services, I will happily subscribe to them - but until then I am really not that into streaming. Please do understand that I do listen to Japanese music 70% of the time and bands like Utsu-P and Masa Works. I also listen to some smaller bands because I happen to like their music better than bigger ones. 
  
 For dinosaurs like me, streaming won't cut the mustard. I like CDs. I like files. I like the idea of having control over my own feed. I like listening to small bands. Do me a favor if you have the time. IS any of those artists on Tidal (also print screen): Utsu-P, Masa Works, Dance Gavin Dance, Rings of Saturn, Interrupting Cow, The Offspring, Royal Republic, Electric Six, Kalafina, Death Rabbits, Kishida Cult, Daniel Kahn and the Painted Bird, Leningrad, Akira Yamaoka. 
  
 I don't have a Tidal Subscription as I don't confirm with anything that requires me to enter credit card information but I am curious if they have any of the bands I generally listen to. Thanks. 
  
  
  
 Also, it goes without saying but I am a dinosaur.


----------



## goldendarko

Lol, no problem dude, I still listen to Vinyl too, sucks that TIDAL doesn't have what you listen to though, Ill have to look to see if any of those bands are on TIDAL, not familiar with any of them except the Offspring which im sure are on there


----------



## int_architect

Is it bad that I keeping studying the Q5 details from the pictures?


----------



## fish1050

sonic defender said:


> You really should. Bluetooth has been a revelation for me. I made the switch for portable with no regrets. Before the switch I was using a PM3 driven balanced with a DP-X1 and custom cable. Got sick of the cable, switched to BT and couldn't believe just how good the sound quality was. Certainly for portable use there is no contest, ditching the cable is a huge advantage, the theoretical tiny sound quality drop with BT (and I can't hear it) is such a small thing that being free of a cable simply dwarfs the supposed quality drop, IMO.


 
 Having heard both Apt-X (now AptX) bluetooth which is basically 320 kbps mp3 quality and the Sony LDAC high quality at 906 Kbps I do hear a difference.  Of course this is with mostly 24 bit FLAC tracks.  But for the convenience and wide range of products supporting it AptX is darn good for portable audio.  
  
 AptX HD is here now with some products available.  It is capable of something like 24 bit 48Khz quality bluetooth audio transmission (576kbps). The Audio Technica ATH-DSR7BT AND ATH-DSR9BT support AptX HD as well as some LG smartphones and a Naim media server among others.  Plus the Astell&Kern AK XB10 Portable High-Resolution Bluetooth Dongle Headphone Amp/DAC with AptX HD came out last year for smartphones and other devices.  
  
 Since this will be the first full year for AptX HD it will be interesting to see how many devices being released in 2017 will support it.


----------



## Sonic Defender

fish1050 said:


> ...
> 
> Since this will be the first full year for AptX HD it will be interesting to see how many devices being released in 2017 will support it.


 
 Yes, 2017 will be really interesting. I'm not a believer personally that in blind listening tests people could reliably hear the difference between Apt X and Apt X HD, but I am always hopeful. Regardless, for those who enjoy and feel they can benefit from the greater sample rate, I say absolutely go for it and love the music!


----------



## fish1050

sonic defender said:


> Yes, 2017 will be really interesting. I'm not a believer personally that in blind listening tests people could reliably hear the difference between Apt X and Apt X HD, but I am always hopeful. Regardless, for those who enjoy and feel they can benefit from the greater sample rate, I say absolutely go for it and love the music!


 
 It all comes down to the quality of the track.  If you listen to mostly 320 kbps mp3 then take AptX and run with it.  If you listen to 24 bit flac you may hear a difference and you may not from track to track.  Just the knowledge that you might be able to hear a difference if it is there with AptX HD might give comfort to some people. As opposed to worrying you might be missing something in the music if you don't have AptX HD.


----------



## Sonic Defender

fish1050 said:


> It all comes down to the quality of the track.  If you listen to mostly 320 kbps mp3 then take AptX and run with it.  If you listen to 24 bit flac you may hear a difference and you may not from track to track.  Just the knowledge that you might be able to hear a difference if it is there with AptX HD might give comfort to some people. As opposed to worrying you might be missing something in the music if you don't have AptX HD.


 
 For me the reason I don't even worry about it is that I have actually tested things. At a head-fi meet here in Ottawa about 3 years ago now I ran a well controlled 7 subject, multiple trial test per subject blind listening test comparing a 320mp3 file against the lossless master it was made from. Six of the subjects were in their early 20's and among the six was a young woman. The seventh was a middle aged man. Not one of them could distinguish the lossy from the lossless file at better than 50%. These test results aren't unique at all.
  
 Anyway, I'm not trying to get this debate going, it should be more properly discussed in the sound science forum, but I just wanted to provide some background as to why I said what I did.


----------



## fish1050

sonic defender said:


> For me the reason I don't even worry about it is that I have actually tested things. At a head-fi meet here in Ottawa about 3 years ago now I ran a well controlled 7 subject, multiple trial test per subject blind listening test comparing a 320mp3 file against the lossless master it was made from. Six of the subjects were in their early 20's and among the six was a young woman. The seventh was a middle aged man. Not one of them could distinguish the lossy from the lossless file at better than 50%. These test results aren't unique at all.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not trying to get this debate going, it should be more properly discussed in the sound science forum, but I just wanted to provide some background as to why I said what I did.


 
 Fair enough, I don't actually disagree with you, for portable audio I could live with AptX quality as I do my serious listening at home.  I dealt with obsessive audiophiles for years from the sales side.  One thing I learned from that experience is perception is everything.  If it helps you enjoy your music listening experience then who am I to tell you different.


----------



## Jimster480

So what DAC was chosen for this?
 How does it compare to the cheaper K1?


----------



## mandrake50

sonic defender said:


> fish1050 said:
> 
> 
> > It all comes down to the quality of the track.  If you listen to mostly 320 kbps mp3 then take AptX and run with it.  If you listen to 24 bit flac you may hear a difference and you may not from track to track.  Just the knowledge that you might be able to hear a difference if it is there with AptX HD might give comfort to some people. As opposed to worrying you might be missing something in the music if you don't have AptX HD.
> ...


 

 I tend to think that the implementation of the radio/DAC on both ends of the chain will make more difference than the sample rate. That is, once a certain sample rate is reached. Maybe 320 MP3 is that level.
 My hope is that the entire chain, including the radios will improve with the advent of HD spec.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@FiiO, so I realize you may not be able to or want to answer this question, but I'll ask anyway. How long are we looking at here before the Q5 becomes available? I need a device like this, and while I would like to wait, if we are talking months yet I would need to look elsewhere. Again, I do realize I am asking a question that is tough, so my apology for putting you on the spot like this.
  
 Also, can you confirm that Bluetooth with Apt X is being used? Thanks.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sonic defender said:


> @FiiO, so I realize you may not be able to or want to answer this question, but I'll ask anyway. How long are we looking at here before the Q5 becomes available? I need a device like this, and while I would like to wait, if we are talking months yet I would need to look elsewhere. Again, I do realize I am asking a question that is tough, so my apology for putting you on the spot like this.
> 
> Also, can you confirm that Bluetooth with Apt X is being used? Thanks.


 
  
 Have you looked over FiiO X5-3?
  
 It seems to tick all the boxes if you're in a hurry and reviews so far say that it's sound quality is sublime


----------



## Sonic Defender

dobrescu george said:


> Have you looked over FiiO X5-3?
> 
> It seems to tick all the boxes if you're in a hurry and reviews so far say that it's sound quality is sublime


 
 Don't want a DAP, just an amp and DAC, but thanks.


----------



## FiiO

sonic defender said:


> @FiiO, so I realize you may not be able to or want to answer this question, but I'll ask anyway. How long are we looking at here before the Q5 becomes available? I need a device like this, and while I would like to wait, if we are talking months yet I would need to look elsewhere. Again, I do realize I am asking a question that is tough, so my apology for putting you on the spot like this.
> 
> Also, can you confirm that Bluetooth with Apt X is being used? Thanks.


 
 Dear Sonic Defender,
  
 The Q5 may be released in April/May or so. The APT-x function is supported.
  
 Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

fiio said:


> Dear Sonic Defender,
> 
> The Q5 may be released in April/May or so. The APT-x function is supported.
> 
> Best regards


 
 Thank you, now I just have to decide if I should wait. Sounds like a great device well worth waiting for, cheers.


----------



## warrior1975

What are your other options bro?


----------



## Jimster480

In all seriousness are there any specs on this?
 What DAC was chosen? What Preamps? Are they changeable? What is the price range?
  
 I'm hoping they chose the Burr-Brown DAC's as I like the sound signature of TI DAC's.


----------



## Sonic Defender

jimster480 said:


> In all seriousness are there any specs on this?
> What DAC was chosen? What Preamps? Are they changeable? What is the price range?
> 
> I'm hoping they chose the Burr-Brown DAC's as I like the sound signature of TI DAC's.


 
 I think it is going to be dual AKM DACs. If you go back to the first page FiiO has updated the post to note current decisions.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> What are your other options bro?


 
 Mojo and add Bluetooth to it, get another Creative E5, or even just accept a non-Bluetooth option as long as it has USB OTG and enough power to drive the Z1R. That is what I want/need, a small footprint, preferably Bluetooth enabled, well powered amp/DAC. This looks like it may be just that, but I am already also considering the fact that I assume we will have to pay for the amp module as well as the Q5 so it will be at least $400US, if not a little more. Still, I think this type of device is FiiO's forte so I have no doubt that whatever price point it sells for it will be full value for money spent. Do you have any other thoughts or suggestions?


----------



## TheEldestBoy

My current set-up is as follows:
  

TIDAL -> iPhone 6S -> Fiio Q1 dac/amp -> - Sennheisser HD600 (replacement cable by New Fantsia)
  
 I'm wondering if the Q5 will be a noticeable upgrade here (replacing the Q1)?
  
 I listen at relatively low volumes (as a result, I almost always have the bass-boost switched on).
  
  
 The Q1 gives me _way more_ than enough volume, so I'm certainly not looking for an upgrade in the volume department.  I am hoping for better resolution, soundstage, imaging, low-end presence, etc.  Here's hoping that the Q5 will be noticeably better than the Q1 in most (if not all) of these departments!


----------



## fish1050

I am curious to see what kind of battery life it will have given everything Fiio is putting into it?  
  
 I would really like to find out more about the Q3 and how it will compare to the Q5.  My hope is that it is similar to a Q5 but without the extraneous features like bluetooth that I don't really need or want as my DAP will have it.


----------



## Jimster480

sonic defender said:


> I think it is going to be dual AKM DACs. If you go back to the first page FiiO has updated the post to note current decisions.


 

 I looked at the first post but I didn't see any specific choice unless I just didn't understand their wording.
  
 Idk anything about AKM DAC's.


----------



## Sonic Defender

updated: we almost decided that we will use 2 AKM4490 DAC chips


----------



## Jimster480

sonic defender said:


> updated: we almost decided that we will use 2 AKM4490 DAC chips


 
 Yea but "almost decided" doesn't mean that its for sure. Atleast in regular english which is how I understand it.
  
 So you are saying that they did actually decide?


----------



## Sonic Defender

sonic defender said:


> updated: we almost decided that we will use 2 AKM4490 DAC chips


 
 That was taken from the first page. AKM make some nice chips. At the level most DACs are at these days, I would focus less, for the most part anyway, on the chip and worry about how it is implemented.


----------



## Sonic Defender

jimster480 said:


> Yea but "almost decided" doesn't mean that its for sure. Atleast in regular english which is how I understand it.
> 
> So you are saying that they did actually decide?


 
 Not positive, but I could have sworn since that time somewhere in the thread FiiO has discussed going with the AKM, but I could be wrong. As well, that is why in my original reply to you I said "I think" as opposed to I know.


----------



## nhasian

Is the FiiO Q5 still on track to be released in April/May? If so, how does it compare to the X5-III?


----------



## fish1050

nhasian said:


> Is the FiiO Q5 still on track to be released in April/May? If so, how does it compare to the X5-III?


 
 Depends on what you are comparing?
  
 The Q5 is a DAC/AMP and the X5-III is a DAP.  The Q5 has interchangeable amp modules like the X7 so you can't compare power between the two straight up.


----------



## Jimster480

fish1050 said:


> Depends on what you are comparing?
> 
> The Q5 is a DAC/AMP and the X5-III is a DAP.  The Q5 has interchangeable amp modules like the X7 so you can't compare power between the two straight up.



What do you mean by interchangeable modules?


----------



## fish1050

jimster480 said:


> What do you mean by interchangeable modules?


 
 There will be a choice of 3 interchangeable amp modules, one relatively low power suitable for iem's, a slightly more powerful module for less sensitive iem's and headphones, and a third high power module for full sized headphones.  These same modules work on the Fiio X7 DAP.


----------



## Dobrescu George

nhasian said:


> Is the FiiO Q5 still on track to be released in April/May? If so, how does it compare to the X5-III?


 
  
 You can't compare things before it's even out in the wild though. 
  
 Though usage of the same DAC as X5-3 will probably result in a similar signatures from some perspectives. Smooth and detailed, with good soundstage and detailed bass. This is *speculation*!


----------



## fish1050

Okey so having read through this whole thread now I have burning question!  Is there going to be any Fiio DAP worth stacking with the Q5.  Certainly not the X7 given the redundant amp modules.  Would you pair the X5-III with the Q5 since the X5-III seems to tick all the boxes feature and performance wise?  I don't think I would pair the $100.00 X1-II with a $300.00 Q5 when you can get the X5-III for about the same price as the other two combined.
  
 I guess that leaves the eventual X3-III as a possibility but then you will also have the Q3 at some point as well.  I guess the Q5 could be purely designed for smartphone pairing and may have its place as a desktop option for computer use.  I am curious to see what the differences will be between the Q5 and Q3.


----------



## Jimster480

fish1050 said:


> There will be a choice of 3 interchangeable amp modules, one relatively low power suitable for iem's, a slightly more powerful module for less sensitive iem's and headphones, and a third high power module for full sized headphones.  These same modules work on the Fiio X7 DAP.


 

 Wow that is awesome!!!!!!


----------



## Ab10

fish1050 said:


> Okey so having read through this whole thread now I have burning question!  Is there going to be any Fiio DAP worth stacking with the Q5.  Certainly not the X7 given the redundant amp modules.  *Would you pair the X5-III with the Q5 since the X5-III seems to tick all the boxes feature and performance wise?*  I don't think I would pair the $100.00 X1-II with a $300.00 Q5 when you can get the X5-III for about the same price as the other two combined.
> 
> I guess that leaves the eventual X3-III as a possibility but then you will also have the Q3 at some point as well.  I guess the Q5 could be purely designed for smartphone pairing and may have its place as a desktop option for computer use.  I am curious to see what the differences will be between the Q5 and Q3.


 
  
 Looks certainly that is Fiio's intention to the customers.


----------



## Yethal

fish1050 said:


> Okey so having read through this whole thread now I have burning question!  Is there going to be any Fiio DAP worth stacking with the Q5.  Certainly not the X7 given the redundant amp modules.  Would you pair the X5-III with the Q5 since the X5-III seems to tick all the boxes feature and performance wise?  I don't think I would pair the $100.00 X1-II with a $300.00 Q5 when you can get the X5-III for about the same price as the other two combined.
> 
> I guess that leaves the eventual X3-III as a possibility but then you will also have the Q3 at some point as well.  I guess the Q5 could be purely designed for smartphone pairing and may have its place as a desktop option for computer use.  I am curious to see what the differences will be between the Q5 and Q3.


 

 There was also a plan to release a transport-only device (a DAP without an amp built-in) to be used by people who connect their own amp/dacs to daps. think of it as a music player without the audio section. It was called Fiio T3.


----------



## Ab10

yethal said:


> There was also a plan to release a transport-only device (a DAP without an amp built-in) to be used by people who connect their own amp/dacs to daps. think of it as a music player without the audio section. It was called Fiio T3.


 
  
 Fiio T3 is almost Dead now - Here is the Fiio Official's Statement - post no 1152
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/799227/the-upcoming-fiio-t3-dual-sd-slot-3-2-inch-full-touch-screen-optical-coaxial-usb-digital-output-slim-design-apt-x-type-c/1140#post_13178186


----------



## Yethal

ab10 said:


> Fiio T3 is almost Dead now - Here is the Fiio Official's Statement - post no 1152
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/799227/the-upcoming-fiio-t3-dual-sd-slot-3-2-inch-full-touch-screen-optical-coaxial-usb-digital-output-slim-design-apt-x-type-c/1140#post_13178186


 

 That sucks, If Fiio ever released a dedicated transport device I'd buy it in an instant. Much more convenient than using phone as a transport.


----------



## fish1050

yethal said:


> There was also a plan to release a transport-only device (a DAP without an amp built-in) to be used by people who connect their own amp/dacs to daps. think of it as a music player without the audio section. It was called Fiio T3.


 
  
  


ab10 said:


> Fiio T3 is almost Dead now - Here is the Fiio Official's Statement - post no 1152
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/799227/the-upcoming-fiio-t3-dual-sd-slot-3-2-inch-full-touch-screen-optical-coaxial-usb-digital-output-slim-design-apt-x-type-c/1140#post_13178186


 
 Yeah that was already pointed out to me in the X5-III thread and it is indeed dead in the water


----------



## fish1050

ab10 said:


> Looks certainly that is Fiio's intention to the customers.


 
 Can you tell me what the Q5 adds to make it worthwhile to pair with the X5-III besides of course the interchangeable amp modules.  They both have Apt-X bluetooth so that is redundant.  For me the whole point of buying a DAP like the X5-III is so you don't need to stack it with portable amp or amp/dac.


----------



## Sonic Defender

yethal said:


> That sucks, If Fiio ever released a dedicated transport device I'd buy it in an instant. Much more convenient than using phone as a transport.


 
 Why is it more convenient?


----------



## Yethal

sonic defender said:


> Why is it more convenient?


 
 Because an amp/dac attached to a phone with rubber bands is heavy, the rubber bands obscure the screen and having to unlock the phone just to change the currently playing album is a pain in the ass if you have a password-protected screen.

 ^That stack weighs half a kilogram, I tried making a phone call with that once and my arm almost fell off.
  
 A perfect solution would be something akin to Chord Poly (screenless transport controlled wirelessly via phone) but with S/PDIF outputs and without the price tag.


----------



## Sonic Defender

yethal said:


> Because an amp/dac attached to a phone with rubber bands is heavy, the rubber bands obscure the screen and having to unlock the phone just to change the currently playing album is a pain in the ass if you have a password-protected screen.


 
 Phone, Bluetooth no stack no problem. True about password, I typically forget about that as I don't bother with a password.


----------



## Yethal

sonic defender said:


> Phone, Bluetooth no stack no problem. True about password, I typically forget about that as I don't bother with a password.


 

 I'd first have to own something that can receive the Bluetooth signal. And a phone that supports apt-x (regular A2DP sounds horrible). And changing an album would still require me to unlock the phone every time. So yeah, a transport device would be helpful.


----------



## Sonic Defender

yethal said:


> I'd first have to own something that can receive the Bluetooth signal. And a phone that supports apt-x (regular A2DP sounds horrible). And changing an album would still require me to unlock the phone every time. So yeah, a transport device would be helpful.


 
 The Q5 will be Bluetooth, so I was just being hypothetical and don't the majority of phones now support Apt X? Still I get your point.


----------



## fish1050

sonic defender said:


> Why is it more convenient?


 
 A transport device would be great for me as I carry a business phone during the day.  I can't put music on my business phone.  A transport device and dac/amp stack with lots of storage would be great for me as I travel alot and like to listen to my music to pass the time.  Two devices is about all I want to carry and have room for.


----------



## Jimster480

yethal said:


> Because an amp/dac attached to a phone with rubber bands is heavy, the rubber bands obscure the screen and having to unlock the phone just to change the currently playing album is a pain in the ass if you have a password-protected screen.
> 
> 
> ^That stack weighs half a kilogram, I tried making a phone call with that once and my arm almost fell off.
> ...


couldn't you use a Bluetooth headset for calls?


----------



## Sonic Defender

fish1050 said:


> A transport device would be great for me as I carry a business phone during the day.  I can't put music on my business phone.  A transport device and dac/amp stack with lots of storage would be great for me as I travel alot and like to listen to my music to pass the time.  Two devices is about all I want to carry and have room for.


 
 X5III sounds like a great solution all by itself then for your needs. You aren't allowed to put music on your phone? Seems draconian.


----------



## Ab10

sonic defender said:


> X5III sounds like a great solution all by itself then for your needs. You aren't allowed to put music on your phone? Seems draconian.


 
  
 It is True - You can't put personal stuff Movie / Music / Browse Objectionable Website as well questionable content on the Bussiness / Office Laptop - Phone - Tablet which provided* *by the Employer where office's IT Dept take a pick for the regular update - upgrade.


----------



## Jimster480

ab10 said:


> It is True - You can't put Movie / Music / Browse Website as well Objectionable content on the Bussiness / Office Laptop - Phone - Tablet which provides  s* ​* by the Employer where office's IT Dept take a pick for regular update - upgrade.


 

 Really depends on the business lol
  
 Some are more restrictive than others.
 Lots of businesses are BYOD now and are very lenient.


----------



## fish1050

sonic defender said:


> X5III sounds like a great solution all by itself then for your needs. You aren't allowed to put music on your phone? Seems draconian.


 
  
  


ab10 said:


> It is True - You can't put personal stuff Movie / Music / Browse Objectionable Website as well questionable content on the Bussiness / Office Laptop - Phone - Tablet which provided* *by the Employer where office's IT Dept take a pick for the regular update - upgrade.


 
  
  


jimster480 said:


> Really depends on the business lol
> 
> Some are more restrictive than others.
> Lots of businesses are BYOD now and are very lenient.


 
 I work in computer networking and my phone is full with tonnes of client information.  For security reasons I can't put anything personal on it that could put clients information at risk.  Even if it was allowed I simply don't have the space available to hold much music anyway.


----------



## fish1050

The X5-III looks like a great DAP but it will be pricey in Canada and I really don't want to pay for wifi as I don't use streaming services.  I think I will wait for the X3-III which will be more affordable and hopefully have fewer features I don't need.  If it has AptX bluetooth and forgoes wifi it will be perfect for me.


----------



## Yethal

jimster480 said:


> couldn't you use a Bluetooth headset for calls?


 

 For calls, yes. For everything else, not really.


----------



## Sonic Defender

ab10 said:


> It is True - You can't put personal stuff Movie / Music / Browse Objectionable Website as well questionable content on the Bussiness / Office Laptop - Phone - Tablet which provided* *by the Employer where office's IT Dept take a pick for the regular update - upgrade.


 
 My brother is lucky, he works for Defense and they allow music on the phones so I am surprised that others are so restrictive. Website control I can understand, music seems pretty darn safe.


----------



## ScruffyDan

I would love it if it were possible to have separate EQ settings for left and right. No one else does this and it is very useful for those of us that have some hearing loss in one ear.


----------



## peterzzz

scruffydan said:


> I would love it if it were possible to have separate EQ settings for left and right. No one else does this and it is very useful for those of us that have some hearing loss in one ear.




I would expect something like that in the player sending the digital audio, not in the DAC itself.


----------



## Jimster480

fish1050 said:


> I work in computer networking and my phone is full with tonnes of client information.  For security reasons I can't put anything personal on it that could put clients information at risk.  Even if it was allowed I simply don't have the space available to hold much music anyway.


 

 That makes sense.
 I own a software company and work from home building my software, my phone isn't usable for music either due to the volume of notifications I get and how often I need to use the phone.


----------



## ScruffyDan

peterzzz said:


> I would expect something like that in the player sending the digital audio, not in the DAC itself.


 
  

 The advantage of it being in the DAC is greater flexibility. You could use any DAP you want, be it a phone, dedicated DAP or computer and still get the benefits of EQ.
  
 This becomes important when you consider streaming services that only work on iOS or Android


----------



## demond

Q5 can be automatically identified by iPhone.
 I tried it today and there are still many problems to improve.


----------



## Dobrescu George

demond said:


> Q5 can be automatically identified by iPhone.
> I tried it today and there are still many problems to improve.




Q5 was already built ? 

I thought it was a concept / design (?)


----------



## willywill

dobrescu george said:


> Q5 was already built ?
> 
> I thought it was a concept / design (?)


 
 Yea 8 months ago, you can tell this is a pre production model. It look like the Q5 will lunch in September.


----------



## int_architect

demond said:


> Q5 can be automatically identified by iPhone.
> I tried it today and there are still many problems to improve.




Exciting to see the device. What are some issues you feel comfortable sharing with us? I'd be glad to beta test.


----------



## Jimster480

Wow awesome to see this actually come to Fruition!


----------



## demond

int_architect said:


> Exciting to see the device. What are some issues you feel comfortable sharing with us? I'd be glad to beta test.


 
 Thank you, Q5 is in accordance with the design of the plan, because the system is very complex, too many functions, the completion of the formal engineering machine, all the functions of the machine can be tried, it takes some time.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I will be looking forward to learning more about the Q5 once it is released. I have had to pick up a Mojo in the meantime as I really did need a quality portable device, but I'm very keen on trying the Q5. I have owned a few FiiO devices and always been impressed so I have little reason to doubt that the Q5 will be anything but impressive. Please make sure the Bluetooth is rock solid as that is one of the features that will really help set the Q5 apart from the vast majority of competing devices.


----------



## triplew

Ya looking forward for more details about Q5, I'm imagining stacking it with my old mobile phone as a complete solution , rather than buying an expensive DAP, because I can change the phone for faster UI in future and retain the Q5.


----------



## Dobrescu George

triplew said:


> Ya looking forward for more details about Q5, I'm imagining stacking it with my old mobile phone as a complete solution , rather than buying an expensive DAP, because I can change the phone for faster UI in future and retain the Q5.




My Xiaomi mi max would love a q5 ! 

Imagine the possibilities especially with a large tablet for watching music videos!


----------



## Ab10

dobrescu george said:


> My Xiaomi mi max would love a q5 !
> 
> Imagine the possibilities especially with a large tablet for watching music videos!


 
  
 Do you think Value of the Q5 is greater than X5-3 (as you used one) - Same DAC - Hopefully better battery life than X5.


----------



## Dobrescu George

ab10 said:


> Do you think Value of the Q5 is greater than X5-3 (as you used one) - Same DAC - Hopefully better battery life than X5.


 
  
 If you already own X5-3, you probably don't need Q5 as much as people who only have a phone and want a better sound


----------



## sledgeharvy

dobrescu george said:


> If you already own X5-3, you probably don't need Q5 as much as people who only have a phone and want a better sound



Comlletely agree.


----------



## Rob F1UK

*** edit - wrong thread ***


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Is the Q5 still planned for an April/May release?
 Or did I read that we may not see it now until September?


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Which iPhone will the Q5 (with the AM5 module attached) be closest in size to?
  
 I plan on stacking the Q5 with an iPhone (or iPod) and am just wondering which one will be the best physical match?
  

iPhone SE / iPod touch (4 inch screen)
iPhone 6/7 (4.7 inch screen)
iPhone 6-plus/7-plus (5.5 inch screen)


----------



## demond

theeldestboy said:


> Which iPhone will the Q5 (with the AM5 module attached) be closest in size to?
> 
> I plan on stacking the Q5 with an iPhone (or iPod) and am just wondering which one will be the best physical match?
> 
> ...


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


>


 
  
 This is helpful.  
  
 Looks like the iPod touch (roughly the same size as the iPhone SE) will be an ideal pairing here.
  
 I'm actually considering using velcro to stack the Q5 to the iPod touch.  If I keep the iPod in a thin case then the Valero won't damage the actual iPod itself.  Not sure if there will be any case options for Q5 though?
  
 Does anyone have an update on the estimated release date for the Q5 (I think the last update had it pushed from April/May to September)...


----------



## demond

theeldestboy said:


> This is helpful.
> 
> Looks like the iPod touch (roughly the same size as the iPhone SE) will be an ideal pairing here.
> 
> ...


 
 The back of the Q5 is a soft leather material, like the SONY zx1. specifically with the iPhone case we will consider, but if you want to be compatible with all mobile phones, it may be a package.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Wow that would mean it has taken 2 years from the start of the thread to launch. Shame as this sounds like such a nice product. Maybe I will end up getting one down the road. Hopefully it doesn't come by default with a module designed for IEM's. Ideally it should start with at least a moderately powerful amp module, or no module and let the customer select what they want at order time so not like the initial X7 release with the bundled IEM amp module.


----------



## rjst

Will the Q5 be able to transmit via Bluetooth to wireless headphones as well?


----------



## frifox

rjst said:


> Will the Q5 be able to transmit via Bluetooth to wireless headphones as well?


 
 Q5 will only support receiving audio via bluetooth, no sending.


fiio said:


> Dear triplew,
> 
> The Q5 only has the function of receiving Bluetooth signal.
> 
> ...


----------



## wigglepuff

what dac chips will be used on this, 2 akm4490 or sabre ess dacs?
  
 Will these also have a line in and line out capability?


----------



## Sonic Defender

wigglepuff said:


> what dac chips will be used on this, 2 akm4490 or sabre ess dacs?
> 
> Will these also have a line in and line out capability?


 
 I believe if you go back to the first page it has been updated t reflect the selection of AKM chips.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

...and is this product not coming out until September?


----------



## Sonic Defender

theeldestboy said:


> ...and is this product not coming out until September?


 
 That or even later, who knows. I think the X5III and the in development X7II is keeping FiiO busy.


----------



## Jimster480

For some reason I thought this would be a desktop DAC/AMP.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

The X7ii could end-up being an option for me.  I need something for my HD600's, and my current considerations are:

Fiio X5iii + Fiio A5 amp
iPhone + Fiio Q5 (with am5 amp module)
Fiio X7ii (with am5 amp module) [This is only a realistic option if Fiio adds a hardware bass boost to the X7ii]
  
 Would is even been an option for Fiio to add a hardware bass boost to the X7?  I need to be able to boost the bass when listening to music downloaded in offline mode from Tidal/Spotify.


sonic defender said:


> That or even later, who knows. I think the X5III and the in development X7II is keeping FiiO busy.


----------



## Dobrescu George

theeldestboy said:


> The X7ii could end-up being an option for me.  I need something for my HD600's, and my current considerations are:
> 
> Fiio X5iii + Fiio A5 amp
> iPhone + Fiio Q5 (with am5 amp module)
> ...


 
  
 FiiO X5ii already drives HD600 really well. 
  
 X5-3 is good if you like smooth sound.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

dobrescu george said:


> FiiO X5ii already drives HD600 really well.
> 
> X5-3 is good if you like smooth sound.


 

 I primarily listen to music via streaming services (Tidal/Spotify/Apple Music). I download albums for listening in "offline mode", which gives me the highest quality possible from these services.
  
 Does the X5-2 work with these streaming services?


----------



## Dobrescu George

theeldestboy said:


> I primarily listen to music via streaming services (Tidal/Spotify/Apple Music). I download albums for listening in "offline mode", which gives me the highest quality possible from these services.
> 
> Does the X5-2 work with these streaming services?


 
  
 Only X5-3 works with those services 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I only listen to music from my mSD cards - no streaming service in this world doesn't have the music I listen to... 
  
 X5-3 can do all that though and if you want a smooth signature, X5-3 is your safest bet.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

dobrescu george said:


> Only X5-3 works with those services
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've read that the X5-3 on it's own isn't a great match with the HD6xx.
  
 PinkPowers' review notes that:
  


> @PinkyPowers
> 
> Although the X5 is well amped, and will get most full-size headphones good and loud, the Sennheiser/Massdrop HD6XX sounded miserable. Hollow, and lifeless. These have paired so well with weaker devices, like the Opus#1, that the only explanation is dynamics. When driving 300 Ohm headphones, a mobile device needs some way to compensate for not having the amperage of a desktop unit. The sonics need teeth. Both Opus and i5 kick hard enough to bring these cans to marvelous life, while the X5 falls well short. The HD6XX is a warm, laid-back headphone, and chained to a warm, exceedingly laid-back DAP, it’s just… sad. A rain curtain closes about you, and all light seems to leave the world. Before you know it, your hand is penning a suicide note.


 
  
 I wonder if stacking the X5-3 with the A5 amp would improve its synergy with the HD6xx/HD600?
  
 Or is the "warm, smooth sound signature" of the X5-3 the culprit here?  
​


----------



## Dobrescu George

theeldestboy said:


> I've read that the X5-3 on it's own isn't a great match with the HD6xx.
> 
> PinkPowers' review notes that:
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is the signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't like HD650 that much to be honest, only HD600. They are extremely different. And I've mostly tested HD600 with X5-2, pairing which sounded really nice. With X5-3, I tested only very briefly but it was okay. I generally go for energetic signatures, like X5-2, X7+AM03 and such, but for someone who likes laid back / smooth signatures, it sounded good. 
  
 Then again, I tested HD600 and not HD650. HD650 is veiled / thick / fuzzy / rolled off to my ears, especially when compared to HD600. Big differences, so there might be something with the units I tested in particular


----------



## Sonic Defender

theeldestboy said:


> I've read that the X5-3 on it's own isn't a great match with the HD6xx.
> 
> PinkPowers' review notes that:
> 
> ...


 
 Or simply use your phone via Bluetooth (yes BT sounds great) to the Q5. Consider that Apt X Bluetooth is capable of greater than 320 bitrate. I performed a 7 subject, multiple trial per subject, well controlled blind listening test at a head-fi meet I hosted about 3 years ago. I was testing to see if people could distinguish a 320mp3 from the lossless master it was made from. Two of the subjects had already done what most people here do, they performed sighted tests when they compare and hence they can always hear a difference. These two university aged guys swore they would have no issues detecting the mp3 file. Guess what, they didn't, not one of the 7 subjects did better than 50% detection so complete guessing. I'm a psychology major so I have a practical understanding of controlling things and I think as far as could be done, things were well controlled.
  
 So my long point is this, if Bluetooth can already exceed the 320 bitrate, which people no matter what they claim can't tell apart from lossless, higher bitrates, then maybe the Bluetooth option with the Q5 (assuming it is well done) might be well worth considering. I know this isn't the sound science forum, so forgive the divergence and I hope it doesn't get a huge debate started, that wasn't my intent. And my test results were typical, in fact, I have never heard of an actual blind listening test where it turned out people could detect a well done lossy file from the lossless master.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

dobrescu george said:


> It is the signature
> 
> I don't like HD650 that much to be honest, only HD600. They are extremely different. And I've mostly tested HD600 with X5-2, pairing which sounded really nice. With X5-3, I tested only very briefly but it was okay. I generally go for energetic signatures, like X5-2, X7+AM03 and such, but for someone who likes laid back / smooth signatures, it sounded good.
> 
> Then again, I tested HD600 and not HD650. HD650 is veiled / thick / fuzzy / rolled off to my ears, especially when compared to HD600. Big differences, so there might be something with the units I tested in particular :eek:




I'm actually quite sensitive to treble and higher frequencies (this was one of my main reasons for going the the HD600 in the first place).

So, a laid-back & smooth signature is appealing to me. I just don't want it to be too laid-back and smooth (which @PinkyPowers alludes to in his review). Of course, he was referring to the HD 6xx's...


----------



## Dobrescu George

theeldestboy said:


> I'm actually quite sensitive to treble and higher frequencies (this was one of my main reasons for going the the HD600 in the first place).
> 
> So, a laid-back & smooth signature is appealing to me. I just don't want it to be too laid-back and smooth (which @PinkyPowers alludes to in his review). Of course, he was referring to the HD 6xx's...


 
 Wait, what?...
  
 HD600 is far more energetiic in treble than HD650... \
  
 To stay on topic, it is smooth. The DAC module is smooth - you should check their velvet sound thingy and philosophy.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

dobrescu george said:


> Wait, what?...
> 
> HD600 is far more energetiic in treble than HD650... \
> 
> To stay on topic, it is smooth. The DAC module is smooth - you should check their velvet sound thingy and philosophy.




I meant that I chose the HD600 over *all other* possible headphones (not over just the HD650). I wanted the "Sennheiser Signature" (smooth and non-fatiguing). I chose 600 over 650 because I read that they were easier to drive than the 650 (650 being more dependent on the specific amp you were using).


----------



## demond

wigglepuff said:


> what dac chips will be used on this, 2 akm4490 or sabre ess dacs?
> 
> Will these also have a line in and line out capability?


 
 DAC: AKM4490×2
 LINE IN / OPTICAL IN / COAXIAL IN: one 3.5mm interface
 LINE OUT: one 3.5mm interface
 USB IN 1: Micro USB (Power+Date)
 USB IN 2: Micro USB (Power+Date)
 Bluetooth IN (apt-x)
 Power out 3.5 / Balanced out 2.5 (AMP module)


----------



## wigglepuff

demond said:


> DAC: AKM4490×2
> LINE IN / OPTICAL IN / COAXIAL IN: one 3.5mm interface
> LINE OUT: one 3.5mm interface
> USB IN 1: Micro USB (Power+Date)
> ...


 

 thanks, just curious why 2 usb inputs?


----------



## Ab10

demond said:


> DAC: AKM4490×2
> LINE IN / OPTICAL IN / COAXIAL IN: one 3.5mm interface
> LINE OUT: one 3.5mm interface
> USB IN 1: Micro USB (Power+*Date*)
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for sounding noob but what is the meaning of the *Date* here ? If possible kindly elaborate....
  
 Is it pull the Date & Time info from the source device like Phone or PC ?


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> DAC: AKM4490×2
> LINE IN / OPTICAL IN / COAXIAL IN: one 3.5mm interface
> LINE OUT: one 3.5mm interface
> USB IN 1: Micro USB (Power+Date)
> ...


 

 I plan on stacking the Q5 with an iPod touch.
  
 In addition to listening with my Sennheiser HD600's, I also plan on using this stack to feed my home stereo system.
  
 My home stereo system has the following inputs:

USB Type B
Optical
Coax
Aux In (RCA inputs)
  
 What are my options for feeding the iPod/Q5 stack into the stereo system?  I'm assuming that I'll be running a cord from the Q5's Line Out (one 3.5mm interface)?  But which inputs am I able to run that _into_?
  
 EDIT:  And I'm assuming that the Q5's dac will be processing the digital music file and then my home stereo system will take care of amping that signal from the Q5?


----------



## int_architect

demond said:


> DAC: AKM4490×2
> LINE IN / OPTICAL IN / COAXIAL IN: one 3.5mm interface
> LINE OUT: one 3.5mm interface
> USB IN 1: Micro USB (Power+Date)
> ...




Yes!!! Love the AKM DACs!


----------



## RAQemUP

@TheEldestBoy

Right now Adorama is having a sale on the iFi micro iDSD Black Label for $400 (normally $550). It has ridiculous power for high impedance headphones such as HD600. I use it with my HD580 and various 250 ohm Beyers. If your iPod Touch has iOS 7 or higher and a lightning port, I highly recommend it. The only problem is that for a portable unit it's not really pocketable in a stack. It's almost as thick as three iPhone 7 and almost as long as a iPhone 7 plus so you would have to have the stack in a bag for otg listening.


----------



## Jimster480

raqemup said:


> @TheEldestBoy
> 
> Right now Adorama is having a sale on the iFi micro iDSD Black Label for $400 (normally $550). It has ridiculous power for high impedance headphones such as HD600. I use it with my HD580 and various 250 ohm Beyers. If your iPod Touch has iOS 7 or higher and a lightning port, I highly recommend it. The only problem is that for a portable unit it's not really pocketable in a stack. It's almost as thick as three iPhone 7 and almost as long as a iPhone 7 plus so you would have to have the stack in a bag for otg listening.


 

 If you don't need a portable stack I recommend checking out the Topping D30/A30 stack.


----------



## triplew

Q5 is great to support aptx, but I can see many ppl here suggesting to pair it with iPhone, and iPhone does not support aptx, may I ask does that mean pairing with iPhone will result in "poorer" SQ?


----------



## demond

ab10 said:


> Sorry for sounding noob but what is the meaning of the *Date* here ? If possible kindly elaborate....
> 
> Is it pull the Date & Time info from the source device like Phone or PC ?


 
 -----USB digital music date, not time
  
  
  


theeldestboy said:


> I plan on stacking the Q5 with an iPod touch.
> 
> In addition to listening with my Sennheiser HD600's, I also plan on using this stack to feed my home stereo system.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Q5 ->Line out 3.5mm -> 3.5mm to RCA cable ->Aux in (RCA input)  stereo system


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> -----USB digital music date, not time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is "Q5 ->Line out 3.5mm -> 3.5mm to RCA cable ->Aux in (RCA input)  stereo system" the only option?


----------



## Sonic Defender

triplew said:


> Q5 is great to support aptx, but I can see many ppl here suggesting to pair it with iPhone, and iPhone does not support aptx, may I ask does that mean pairing with iPhone will result in "poorer" SQ?


 
 If there is any audible drop in quality at all, it should be minimal. People greatly overestimate how sensitive to tiny, tiny quality changes they really are because frankly, people simply assume rather than actually test properly. IMO of course, nothing more.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sonic defender said:


> If there is any audible drop in quality at all, it should be minimal. People greatly overestimate how sensitive to tiny, tiny quality changes they really are because frankly, people simply assume rather than actually test properly. IMO of course, nothing more.


 
  
 Never heard the difference between APT-X and without. 
  
 But my take is that if both modules are okay, it should work out. 
  
 It is not like going from MP3 320 to MP3 at 128, right?


----------



## Sonic Defender

dobrescu george said:


> It is not like going from MP3 320 to MP3 at 128, right?


 
 Absolutely, as I said the differences are likely to be so small as to be insignificant.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sonic defender said:


> Absolutely, as I said the differences are likely to be so small as to be insignificant.


 
  
 Don't tell people this, but I hear no difference between OGG -q10 and FLAC most of times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seriosuly though, if the differences aren't big, and as BT is mainly intended to be used outside and as most BT headsets are not ie800 level of revealing, I wouldn't really care about this. 
  
 What matters for BT is that the connection doesn't drop in any moment and within a sensible range. Everything else shouldn't be a bother to us users.


----------



## Jimster480

dobrescu george said:


> Don't tell people this, but I hear no difference between OGG -q10 and FLAC most of times
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Its true OGG VBR 320kbps is basically indistinguishable from FLAC>


----------



## Dobrescu George

jimster480 said:


> Its true OGG VBR 320kbps is basically indistinguishable from FLAC>


 
  
 I think that at -q 10 it is about 500kbps, but yeah, while I can see some minotr differences in the graphs, the sound is just the same to my ears - which is funny since I'm only using FLACs due to a OCD / bias I have for keeping all my libraries saved in FLAC 

 Fear the CD rot man! 

 I was using my phone to watch some AMV's while in the train yesterday, and while it did sound good, a little bump in the audio quality would be great to have!


----------



## Jimster480

dobrescu george said:


> I think that at -q 10 it is about 500kbps, but yeah, while I can see some minotr differences in the graphs, the sound is just the same to my ears - which is funny since I'm only using FLACs due to a OCD / bias I have for keeping all my libraries saved in FLAC
> 
> Fear the CD rot man!
> 
> I was using my phone to watch some AMV's while in the train yesterday, and while it did sound good, a little bump in the audio quality would be great to have!


 

 Well yea 500kbps is just overkill insane, Ogg is an incredible codec


----------



## demond

*Q5 developing progress update:*
  




*1. The appearance parts have already been confirmed and settled. All the functions are also completed.*

 USB decoding supports up to 384kHz/32 bit. DSD is also supported.
 For input, it supports Line input, Coaxial input, Optical input, Bluetooth input, iPhone digital input, PC USB digital input. And each input mode can be displayed by different colors of the LED indicator.
  
  

*2. The Q5 is planned to come standard with the AM3A headphone amplifier module.*

 The AM3A module has the same interface of the AM3: 3.5mm headphone output, 2.5mm Balanced output. The difference is that the AM3A has lower output power and a more compact circuit design.

*3. The tone tuning is still in comparison phase.*

 The tone tuning of Q5 has not yet been determined and we're still collecting the requirements of consumers. There will be several sample units with different tuning, and we will make selection in mid April. In addition, the tone of Q5 can be changed by adjusting the digital filter through an app on the phone, which needs to be connected to the Q5 via Bluetooth.

 4. Some more complex performance indexes are still under testing, such as Bluetooth stability and Anti-interference performance.


----------



## peterzzz

Most excellent news, I can't wait for you to take my moneys on this 
  
 One question though; with the X7-AM3 reviews people said the balanced out had a fairly bad noise floor. Was that because of the AM3 or X7, and is the AM3A, having lower power than AM3, an attempt to cure this?
  
 (I can't use balanced out on the X5-3; it has far too high output impedance so I didn't even bother trying)


----------



## mrhizzo

No USB C?

The bluetooth will work more or less a la Poly (from Chord)?


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> *Q5 developing progress update:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very interesting (and exciting) update!
  
 2. The Q5 is planned to come...
 Will the AM3A be powerful enough to adequately drive the Sennheiser HD600's, or will I definitely need to purchase the additional AM5 module?
  
 3. The tone tuning...
 I was assuming that the Q5 would have a similar sound signature to the X5iii since they share the same dac.  Maybe not though?


----------



## PopZeus

theeldestboy said:


> Very interesting (and exciting) update!
> 
> 2. The Q5 is planned to come...
> Will the AM3A be powerful enough to adequately drive the Sennheiser HD600's, or will I definitely need to purchase the additional AM5 module?
> ...


 
  
 Indeed. This looks like an exciting, beautifully designed portable DAC!
  
 Man, I hope the default is dead neutral, something like the Grace m9XX. My Shanling DAP is great for giving me a colored, but engaging and non-fatiguing sound for most IEMs. If I were to get a Q5, I'd prefer it to be as neutral as possible for a wide variety of over-ear cans and speakers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@FiiO, please don't do like with the X7 launch and bundle the Q5 with an underpowered amp module. Ideally you should be allowing the user to order the correct amp module they want with the Q5. Frankly, there is no reason you can't look at the data for the X7 module orders and see what the ratio of amp modules was i.e. 56% AM5, 22%AM3 etc. That way you can realistically forecast how to make the modules needed. It makes no sense to develop a modular design and then select the module that ships by default, that should be the users choice. I would hate to pay for a bundled AM3A module only to discover that it really didn't power my headphone adequately and I then needed to turn around and purchase something like the AM5. 
  
 I'm not saying this is how things will go, but again, the point of a modular design is choice for the user so ultimately it would be best if possible to allow the user to select the amp module and I can't imagine how after the X7 having been released for so long you don't now have enough data on the amp modules to realistically forecast and guide production of the modules to support user choice for the Q5.
  
 This is just an opinion, and as a big fan of FiiO who respects everything about FiiO and how amazing the company is to the head-fi community I hope you don't take my post as a criticism or harsh. I just want the best for FiiO and the best for the customers and in my mind the strength of the modular design is user choice so why not make it that way right from launch?


----------



## demond

Select amp module, everyone is concerned, 
 Some of the other modules, I am clear, we hope to be able to match a perfect module, 
 或者选用其他耳放模块，甚至不搭配模块销售。我们会慎重考虑大家的意见
 Or choose other amp module. Or not have module? We will carefully consider the views of everyone.
  
 What do you expect, please boldly tell me.


----------



## Dobrescu George

demond said:


> Select amp module, everyone is concerned,
> Some of the other modules, I am clear, we hope to be able to match a perfect module,
> 或者选用其他耳放模块，甚至不搭配模块销售。我们会慎重考虑大家的意见
> 
> ...




Am03 was my choice and I wouldn't have used any other amp module with x7 . 

To fit with most people, maybe fiio can sell the q5 without a module at first and everyone can buy their favorite amp flavor. 

I didn't use am01 at all with x7 and probably wouldn't use am01 with q5 either .


----------



## duyu

Great to see updates coming.

I'm very happy with my X7's AM3 2.5mm. But the 3.5mm is a bit disappointing. But overall I like the neutral sound.
I guess FiiO decreases the power output for longer battery life.


----------



## Sonic Defender

duyu said:


> Great to see updates coming.
> 
> I'm very happy with my X7's AM3 2.5mm. But the 3.5mm is a bit disappointing. But overall I like the neutral sound.
> I guess FiiO decreases the power output for longer battery life.


 
 For sure, but the AM3A that is supposed to ship with the Q5 according to FiiO has lower power than the AM3 you have used.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@FiiO, way back in the beginning of the X7 launch I made a suggestion for how you could support true user amp module choice right from the beginning and now with the Q5 it is even easier. I understand that one concern would be scheduling the proper production of amp modules for FiiO direct sales and of course being able to supply your distributors. I believe you can do both while still allowing full choice for the customer.
  
 First, you now have a ton of data from X7 sales, that alone should provide enough information to you to serve both purposes. You can see what amp modules are most popular and by what percentage they should be produced. As well, why not start a Q5 amp module thread that has a poll and ask people here to vote on what module or modules they would want to have right away with the Q5? You could then compare that data to the data from X7 module sales.
  
 The strength of this design is choice, so maximize that strength. There really is no reason that you can't accurately gauge what consumers will want in amp modules. It perhaps can't be 100% accurate, nothing would be, but it would still be very accurate and frankly serve your customers better to try. For instance, the AM3A for me wouldn't be of use so even if you provided me with a discount on other modules after having sold me the Q5 bundled with the AM3A I would still have to pay for the AM3A which I didn't want, pay for a new module and also wait for the new module to arrive. I think it is clear why you would want to avoid this scenario as both a company and a customer.
  
 Anyway, again, I hope I haven't sounded ungrateful for the fantastic community engagement of FiiO, I really like your products and how you listen to the customers. I know all the customer feedback you gather sometimes causes lots of problems for FiiO, but I think that commitment to listening is very important. There is a saying in sales I learned many years ago: "When the customer is talking, the customer is buying".


----------



## duyu

I guess there will be again no module version available?

As a X7 user, I'm happy to see there are more modules available. I've got AM3 only so far.

Btw, is it possible to add a balanced line out for future modules?


----------



## JamesFiiO

duyu said:


> I guess there will be again no module version available?
> 
> As a X7 user, I'm happy to see there are more modules available. I've got AM3 only so far.
> 
> Btw, is it possible to add a balanced line out for future modules?


 
  
  
 Yes we will release no module but maybe only available in our online store, lots of our agents complained to us that some people just returned the no module X7 cause it can't used for any headphones.


----------



## Sonic Defender

jamesfiio said:


> Yes we will release no module but maybe only available in our online store, lots of our agents complained to us that some people just returned the no module X7 cause it can't used for any headphones.


 
 Then your agents need to do a better job presenting the product so that it is 100% clear that without a module it can't power a headphone.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jamesfiio said:


> Yes we will release no module but maybe only available in our online store, lots of our agents complained to us that some people just returned the no module X7 cause it can't used for any headphones.


 
  
 That is both funny and sad at the same time...


----------



## wigglepuff

whats the price for the Q5 with no amp module?


----------



## snellemin

A 4-5Watt module is what I really want.  Or how about a module where the user can switch in their own opamp and buffers.   A premium can be charged for the DIY version just like the DIY E12.  
 But I'll be just as happy with the new smaller balanced module to plug into Ibasso PB2.


----------



## AudioCats

jamesfiio said:


> Yes we will release no module but maybe only available in our online store, lots of our agents complained to us that some people just returned the no module X7 cause it can't used for any headphones.


 
 maybe include a _*low-profile*_ low power headphone amp module (that is just powerful enough to drive IEM's) as default config? IEM users (and line-out users) will appreciate the smaller over-all size; Users of larger phones still have the option to change it to the bulky high-power modules.


----------



## Dobrescu George

audiocats said:


> maybe include a _*low-profile*_ low power headphone amp module (that is just powerful enough to drive IEM's) as default config? IEM users (and line-out users) will appreciate the smaller over-all size; Users of larger phones still have the option to change it to the bulky high-power modules.


 
  
 That is what we wanted to drop - the original AM01. 
  
 The problem with it was that it wasn't really used by some of us and those who paid for it were practically throwing the money away if using AM03 always, this is why we wanted to have a no-amp module


----------



## Sonic Defender

Bundle no module, the default configuration should be just the Q5 without an amp, let the user decide at the time of ordering. What could be simpler?


----------



## Dobrescu George

sonic defender said:


> Bundle no module, the default configuration should be just the Q5 without an amp, let the user decide at the time of ordering. What could be simpler?


 
  
 Logistics and knowing how many modules to produce without over-doing it is complicated for FiiO in this case, they can go very wrong this is why they would want to use their own configurator and sell as many modules as are bought. Seeing their perspective, I actually think it is a decent solution for everyone.


----------



## Sonic Defender

dobrescu george said:


> Logistics and knowing how many modules to produce without over-doing it is complicated for FiiO in this case, they can go very wrong this is why they would want to use their own configurator and sell as many modules as are bought. Seeing their perspective, I actually think it is a decent solution for everyone.


 
 I can see the concern but I can't help but think they can make it work by analyzing the sales data from the X7. They must have a ton of sales history by now and you can bet the Q5 will be very similar in terms of customers. I wonder if existing X7 modules will fit the new Q5?


----------



## AudioCats

dobrescu george said:


> That is what we wanted to drop - the original AM01.
> 
> The problem with it was that it wasn't really used by some of us and those who paid for it were practically throwing the money away if using AM03 always, this is why we wanted to have a no-amp module


 

 I see. Though I think Fiio's concern is valid as well, not all users are technical experts, some would buy the bare unit without realizing it requires extra module...
  
 Maybe Fiio can just put the basic amp section (which is probably one chip anyway, probably a $5 feature) as part of the main circuit board, you won't even know it is there.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

audiocats said:


> I see. Though I think Fiio's concern is valid as well, not all users are technical experts, some would buy the bare unit without realizing it requires extra module...
> 
> Maybe Fiio can just put the basic amp section (which is probably one chip anyway, probably a $5 feature) as part of the main circuit board, you won't even know it is there.


 
  


sonic defender said:


> I can see the concern but I can't help but think they can make it work by analyzing the sales data from the X7. They must have a ton of sales history by now and you can bet the Q5 will be very similar in terms of customers. I wonder if existing X7 modules will fit the new Q5?


 
  


dobrescu george said:


> Logistics and knowing how many modules to produce without over-doing it is complicated for FiiO in this case, they can go very wrong this is why they would want to use their own configurator and sell as many modules as are bought. Seeing their perspective, I actually think it is a decent solution for everyone.


 

 Or maybe Fiio could say that you *cannot* buy the Q5 unbundled... but that you do have to choose which amp module you want it to be bundled with?
  
 This would achieve the following things:

ensure that nobody mistakenly buys the Q5 "unbundled" (and is angry that there's no amp)
allows (and in fact, _forces_) purchasers to choose which amp module their Q5 comes bundled with


----------



## ScruffyDan

The bottom line is that people would rather not spend money on an amp module that they don't need. Ideally Fiio will find a way to make that happen.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Bundle with AM03 from the start? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


sonic defender said:


> I can see the concern but I can't help but think they can make it work by analyzing the sales data from the X7. They must have a ton of sales history by now and you can bet the Q5 will be very similar in terms of customers. I wonder if existing X7 modules will fit the new Q5?


 
  
 I remember the news being that Q5 would be compatible with X7 modules


----------



## Sonic Defender

dobrescu george said:


> Bundle with AM03 from the start?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If the X7 modules are compatible this should really simplify things for fiiO. They could simply produce additional amp modules in keeping with the basic proportions they now I assume adhere to after quite sometime selling the X7.


----------



## demond

sonic defender said:


> I can see the concern but I can't help but think they can make it work by analyzing the sales data from the X7. They must have a ton of sales history by now and you can bet the Q5 will be very similar in terms of customers. I wonder if existing X7 modules will fit the new Q5?


 
 Q5 and X7 will share all the AMP modules listed and will be listed.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> Q5 and X7 will share all the AMP modules listed and will be listed.


 

 Very good!  
  
@demond Would it ever be possible for Fiio to add a hardware bass boost to an amp module (this would apply more to the X7 than the Q5, of course)?


----------



## demond

FiiO Q series will be listed three products Q5 Q3 and Q1, which Q5 is for hi-fi users, with more compatibility, a wider range of adaptation. Q3 will be simplified from Q5 to integrated amp module. Q1 will be one of the easiest devices to use with iPhone. Q5 will be listed first, followed by Q1, Q3 will be a little late to winter.


----------



## Jimster480

I think that they should sell a DAC version and then a DAC/Amp version. And the DAC/Amp version comes with one of the 2 modules.
 That would fix the problem with people who are too stupid to read and order the wrong thing and then blame FiiO.
 And it would fix the problem of the people who are upset about the Amp that they aren't going to use and want to whine about "paying" for it when in reality it probably would cost $5-10 more total.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> FiiO Q series will be listed three products Q5 Q3 and Q1, which Q5 is for hi-fi users, with more compatibility, a wider range of adaptation. Q3 will be simplified from Q5 to integrated amp module. Q1 will be one of the easiest devices to use with iPhone. Q5 will be listed first, followed by Q1, Q3 will be a little late to winter.


 

 Thanks for the update!
  
 A few questrions:

Could you give us an _approx_ timeline of when the 3 products will be listed?
Are you saying that the Q3 will not be able to use the detachable amp modules, but will instead only have one integrated amp option (and how powerful might this amp be)?
Will the Q1 be an _updated_ version of the current Q1?


----------



## Atonement

When will the Q5 be released for sale?


----------



## Sonic Defender

jimster480 said:


> I think that they should sell a DAC version and then a DAC/Amp version. And the DAC/Amp version comes with one of the 2 modules.
> That would fix the problem with people who are too stupid to read and order the wrong thing and then blame FiiO.
> And it would fix the problem of the people who are upset about the Amp that they aren't going to use and want to whine about "paying" for it when in reality it probably would cost $5-10 more total.


 
 Good suggestions, but as for the paying for the amp module they didn't want. You may be right that when bundled from FiiO the cost of the unwanted module is likely not that high to the customer, the fact that they then need to spend what, about $99 for a new module plus the time and maybe shipping costs is what I think would be the real issue. But yes, offering a few configuration options is fine, but in the end that is the same thing as letting people decide. The problem as I understand it from FiiO's perspective is knowing how many of what modules to make so even if they do have multiple configuration options available, they still have to decide how many of each to produce.


----------



## Westerborn

Just to weigh in on the to-bundle-or-not-to-bundle debate; the complaint about buying an X7 without a module falls squarely with the authorised reseller and not on FiiO policy. The reseller is responsible for not only clearly explaining that the X7 (Standard Edition) comes with no module but then repeating that information to any prospective sale. Time consuming, I know, but it is the responsibility of the reseller to provide both a competent service experience and promote FiiO in a positive manner. In this respect it makes all of the sense for FiiO to sell the X7 and eventually the Q5 without any module. The reseller can then, if they so wish, create their own bundle packages which would reflect the difference in module price. We have to remember that FiiO are still proportionally really small and I doubt it is economically viable for them to pack and produce 5 different types of pre-bundled, pre-boxed X7/Q5.
  
 As for the AM1 and ending up with an unwanted module, I think that it was a good call to release the X7 and then quickly follow with the modules as and when they were ready as it shaved a good 6 months or so off of the release date.
  
 When it comes to having accurate sales data of which modules are popular, I just don't think FiiO would have reliable information. From their perspective they only have numbers of boxes shipped to each reseller but no actual data on how much of each shipment is sold. Equally due to the staggered release of each module (months between them in some cases) they'll have to somehow adjust for that which, considering they're dedicating a great effort to getting the X5iii produced and the amount of projects in the pipeline, I just doubt they have time for.


----------



## Sonic Defender

westerborn said:


> Just to weigh in on the to-bundle-or-not-to-bundle debate; the complaint about buying an X7 without a module falls squarely with the authorised reseller and not on FiiO policy. The reseller is responsible for not only clearly explaining that the X7 (Standard Edition) comes with no module but then repeating that information to any prospective sale. Time consuming, I know, but it is the responsibility of the reseller to provide both a competent service experience and promote FiiO in a positive manner. In this respect it makes all of the sense for FiiO to sell the X7 and eventually the Q5 without any module. The reseller can then, if they so wish, create their own bundle packages which would reflect the difference in module price. We have to remember that FiiO are still proportionally really small and I doubt it is economically viable for them to pack and produce 5 different types of pre-bundled, pre-boxed X7/Q5.
> 
> As for the AM1 and ending up with an unwanted module, I think that it was a good call to release the X7 and then quickly follow with the modules as and when they were ready as it shaved a good 6 months or so off of the release date.
> 
> When it comes to having accurate sales data of which modules are popular, I just don't think FiiO would have reliable information. From their perspective they only have numbers of boxes shipped to each reseller but no actual data on how much of each shipment is sold. Equally due to the staggered release of each module (months between them in some cases) they'll have to somehow adjust for that which, considering they're dedicating a great effort to getting the X5iii produced and the amount of projects in the pipeline, I just doubt they have time for.


 
 I think they will be able to have good sales data. I would look at reordering rates and compare them with their direct sales data, I really think the information is not very complex to analyze. I also think given that the X7 was plagued by constant bugs for so long, the majority of the X7 thread was bug discussions delaying the launch might have been better. I know that sounds harsh, but I followed that thread for a long time and so many bugs should never have happened, it seemed like a rushed release with far too little testing.
  
 Edit: It also begs the question about being spread too thin in your R&D and testing. Maybe it is better to release fewer, but better tested products?


----------



## talan7

I think you should be able to order it from Fiio with whatever amp module you want. Other sellers can sell it pre-bundled with whatever amp fiio chooses. That way, people can get it the way they want.


----------



## Dobrescu George

westerborn said:


> Just to weigh in on the to-bundle-or-not-to-bundle debate; the complaint about buying an X7 without a module falls squarely with the authorised reseller and not on FiiO policy. The reseller is responsible for not only clearly explaining that the X7 (Standard Edition) comes with no module but then repeating that information to any prospective sale. Time consuming, I know, but it is the responsibility of the reseller to provide both a competent service experience and promote FiiO in a positive manner. In this respect it makes all of the sense for FiiO to sell the X7 and eventually the Q5 without any module. The reseller can then, if they so wish, create their own bundle packages which would reflect the difference in module price. We have to remember that FiiO are still proportionally really small and I doubt it is economically viable for them to pack and produce 5 different types of pre-bundled, pre-boxed X7/Q5.
> 
> As for the AM1 and ending up with an unwanted module, I think that it was a good call to release the X7 and then quickly follow with the modules as and when they were ready as it shaved a good 6 months or so off of the release date.
> 
> When it comes to having accurate sales data of which modules are popular, I just don't think FiiO would have reliable information. From their perspective they only have numbers of boxes shipped to each reseller but no actual data on how much of each shipment is sold. Equally due to the staggered release of each module (months between them in some cases) they'll have to somehow adjust for that which, considering they're dedicating a great effort to getting the X5iii produced and the amount of projects in the pipeline, I just doubt they have time for.


 
  
 You're right! 

 Sellers have a responsibility of explaining things! 
  
 I'm glad that Romanian stores do take the time to explain some things and do have the technical skill and knowledge to do this! 
  
 Since you raised the question, I hope you're taking the effort of explaining things to newcomers as my experience and the help I got in Romania actually got me hooked in this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Working with a seller is much more than a price and sale thing in this hobby in my view.


----------



## wigglepuff

what specific model of the ak4490 chip will be used on the Q5?


----------



## demond

wigglepuff said:


> what specific model of the ak4490 chip will be used on the Q5?


 

 AKM AK4490EN
 Premium 32-Bit 2ch DAC
 THD+N: -112dB
 S/N:120dB
 32-Bit 8x Digital Filter
 Support 2.8MHz, 5.6MHz and 11.2MHz DSD


----------



## PopZeus

demond said:


> AKM AK4490EN
> Premium 32-Bit 2ch DAC
> THD+N: -112dB
> S/N:120dB
> ...


 
  
 According to spec, the Q5 will have 2 AK4490ENs (running in dual mono mode, I'm assuming...) I hope that means better performance from the DAC, but then I worry about battery life. Either way, I hope they nail the implementation as there are quite a few successful products that are powered by the AK4490, so it will be tough to stand out amongst the competition.


----------



## Sonic Defender

popzeus said:


> According to spec, the Q5 will have 2 AK4490ENs (running in dual mono mode, I'm assuming...) I hope that means better performance from the DAC, but then I worry about battery life. Either way, I hope they nail the implementation as there are quite a few successful products that are powered by the AK4490, so it will be tough to stand out amongst the competition.


 
 Yes and no. There aren't many DAC/amp combinations with Bluetooth and WiFi in a portable form factor that I know of. There are some, I owned the Creative E5 for a time which was pretty nice, but a little edgy overall.


----------



## PopZeus

sonic defender said:


> Yes and no. There aren't many DAC/amp combinations with Bluetooth and WiFi in a portable form factor that I know of. There are some, I owned the Creative E5 for a time which was pretty nice, but a little edgy overall.


 
  
 Fair enough. All the more reason why battery life and power usage specs matter. No point in having all these features if you can only use it for an hour before it dies.


----------



## A2029

One thing I don't understand is the drive towards super slim devices from all of these manufacturers. I'd rather they made it 10% fatter and give another 50% battery life...


----------



## Dobrescu George

swich401 said:


> One thing I don't understand is the drive towards super slim devices from all of these manufacturers. I'd rather they made it 10% fatter and give another 50% battery life...


 
  
 I'd rather make it 50% thicker and give it 300% battery life


----------



## snellemin

I prefer a thinner design.  8 hours is more than enough.  I'm old school.  I am used to the Sony cassette and mini disk era, where you only had a single AA battery to deal with.


----------



## Sonic Defender

snellemin said:


> I prefer a thinner design.  8 hours is more than enough.  I'm old school.  I am used to the Sony cassette and mini disk era, where you only had a single AA battery to deal with.


 
 Kind of the same here as portability and form factor is a consideration for me in such devices. I am also not the type of person who listens for hours on end so reasonable battery life is enough for me, but I get those who need more time.


----------



## AudioJimmy

I was wondering if you need a driver for Windows when you connect the Q5 to the PC via USB?
  
 I just can't wait for this piece to finally be available...!!! 
  
 Still no clue when it will be released?


----------



## demond

audiojimmy said:


> I was wondering if you need a driver for Windows when you connect the Q5 to the PC via USB?
> 
> I just can't wait for this piece to finally be available...!!!
> 
> Still no clue when it will be released?


 
 Yes, Q5 need a driver as a USB DAC connect the Q5 to the PC,
 But we already have a driver, just like FiiO DAP USB DAC driver.


----------



## AudioJimmy

demond said:


> Yes, Q5 need a driver as a USB DAC connect the Q5 to the PC,
> But we already have a driver, just like FiiO DAP USB DAC driver.




Thanks demond.
I would use the Q5 at work and unfortunately I am not allowed to download nor install any driver...
Will see what I can do.


----------



## peterzzz

audiojimmy said:


> Thanks demond.
> I would use the Q5 at work and unfortunately I am not allowed to download nor install any driver...
> Will see what I can do.




Supposedly the latest versions of win10 have a native USB audio class 2 driver (which is what one would need). So if your workplace is all up-to-date (many are not, I know) then it might just work.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

I'm eagerly awaiting this product as well.
  
 Fiio mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that they were finalizing the sound signature of the Q5 around mid-April, so we should soon be one step closer to having the Q5 in our hands


----------



## ProtegeManiac

swich401 said:


> One thing I don't understand is the drive towards super slim devices from all of these manufacturers. I'd rather they made it 10% fatter and give another 50% battery life...


 
  
 10% fatter alone even with creaetive packaging of the components will be unlikely to yield 50% more battery life.
  
 USB charging is more useful since you can have a powerbank on you, and instead of being permanently x% fatter, you only hook it up to charge. This is an amp that most people will use with a phone, not the phone itself, so chances are if you're going to strap on something like this, you can lug around a powerbank, something each of us might already have because of how that problematic idea of slimmer with less battery life has affected phones as we use them.


----------



## A2029

protegemaniac said:


> 10% fatter alone even with creaetive packaging of the components will be unlikely to yield 50% more battery life.
> 
> USB charging is more useful since you can have a powerbank on you, and instead of being permanently x% fatter, you only hook it up to charge. This is an amp that most people will use with a phone, not the phone itself, so chances are if you're going to strap on something like this, you can lug around a powerbank, something each of us might already have because of how that problematic idea of slimmer with less battery life has affected phones as we use them.




Thing is, if the components inside the case stay the same size, and the thickness of the walls of the casing stay the same thickness, then all of the additional thickness/fatness could be put directly to increasing the size of the battery. Fiio could also increase thickness by 10-30%, and increase overall case dimensions (in X and Y planes) by some percentage, and make the battery much bigger. NOTE: I'm not talking about a massive increase in case size, only an increase sufficient enough to give e.g. 15-24 hours of battery life.

There are three positives to having a bigger battery with longer life:

1) More run time for each charge.

2) More time between recharge cycles means less recharge cycles. As lithium batteries show degrading battery life the more recharge cycles, it would be better to put less cycles on the battery over time. A smaller battery leads to a disposable product 2-3 years down the road if it is recharged often, and if no replacement batteries are easily available from Fiio.

3) No need to carry a power bank with you to recharge the Q5.

demond Can you comment on the choice of battery capacity?


----------



## snellemin

swich401 said:


> Thing is, if the components inside the case stay the same size, and the thickness of the walls of the casing stay the same thickness, then all of the additional thickness/fatness could be put directly to increasing the size of the battery. Fiio could also increase thickness by 10-30%, and increase overall case dimensions (in X and Y planes) by some percentage, and make the battery much bigger. NOTE: I'm not talking about a massive increase in case size, only an increase sufficient enough to give e.g. 15-24 hours of battery life.
> 
> There are three positives to having a bigger battery with longer life:
> 
> ...


 
 You do know that more material cost more, thus cutting into your profits in the market you are targeting.  In 2-3 years there will be something "better" for equal or less money.  I have 5 year old devices that still run on their original batteries. Manage your batteries and they will last longer. Fiio is not going to invest any more money once the dimension are set and dies are made.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

swich401 said:


> Thing is, if the components inside the case stay the same size, and the thickness of the walls of the casing stay the same thickness, then all of the additional thickness/fatness could be put directly to increasing the size of the battery. Fiio could also increase thickness by 10-30%, and increase overall case dimensions (in X and Y planes) by some percentage, and make the battery much bigger. NOTE: I'm not talking about a massive increase in case size, only an increase sufficient enough to give e.g. 15-24 hours of battery life.


 
 
OK, obviously you didn't even try to understand what I said about "creative packaging." So I'm gonna draw it in (digital) crayon and show you the problem.
 
Diagrams on top are a sample portable amp. No DAC circuit occupying one side of the battery running from rear panel USB to the amp circuit in front. You made the assertion that 10% thicker chassis with all other components the same size will give you a large enough battery to get 50% more battery life, which, we should assume for simplicity's sake, would need roughly a 50% larger battery.
 
Amp to the right is roughly 30% thicker (black box) because this is a PITA to draw. All circuit components (red - PCB, pot, diode/chip heatsink, and power cap visible) are the same size. Original battery size (blue) is slightly enlarged (purple), but _*there is unused space (teal) above the components red) that remained the same size*. You are not accounting for how the battery is a single cell unit to keep parts and assembly costs down_. At best, a 30% thicker chassis is needed to get you a roughly 30% larger battery for roughly 30% more battery life. And that assumes that manufacturers will find a battery that exact size rather than leave space around it, or design the amp in such a way as to maximize space around such a larger battery.
 
Amps are _not_ made with the same costs and volume sales to recoup investments as laptops (bottom diagrams). More traditional 12in workstation "ultraportable" laptop from a few years ago on the left has a wide, thick, but otherwise not too large battery to the rear, with the motherboard (red) to the front and there is a cooling fan for the CPU heatpipe (light blue), and an optical drive to the right (yellow), and an HDD sandwiched between them. On the right is a Core M laptop like the Macbook 12in and hybrid Lenovo Yoga series powered by the same kind of processor (Yoga is used even for more traditional laptops as long as it is also has a hybrid tablet mode). Motherboard (red) is wider but shorter front to rear, has an M.2 drive (green) which along with the absence of an optical drive, saves space. These newer laptops depending on packaging might have a large battery pack with two or three cells to fill up the space around the motherboard (Macbook 12 mobo is actually outflanked by battery cells). Multi-cell battery packs aren't as standard as you'd think, and apart from some portable amps that basically used several AA or AAA batteries bundled together, isn't really a thing that's feasible on these products.
  

 
Bottom line: even without accounting for actual volume (which will actually net you less gains), a thicker chassis isn't going to get you as much battery life as you think. Not to mention that your 10% = 50% more battery life is physically impossible given the same battery technology, as well as how, if your starting battery life is 8hours, "15 to 24 hours" isn't exactly "50% more."
  


swich401 said:


> 3) No need to carry a power bank with you to recharge the Q5.


 
 
You also missed another point. Given the proportions discussed above, and the reality that people nowadays _tend to have a powerbank for their phone anyway_, charging the Q5 from it rather than dealing with the increased size of the Q5 makes sense to many. Instead of having a more realistic 50% thicker amp for 50% more battery life you can just have a slim 10500mAh powerbank to charge your phone and the Q5 _only when you need it_, rather than have the Q5 permanently that thick. Yes, phones can have longer battery life if they weren't squeezing too slim batteries in them, doesn't mean that a 50% thicker phone will net you 50% more battery life. 
 


swich401 said:


> 2) More time between recharge cycles means less recharge cycles. As lithium batteries show degrading battery life the more recharge cycles, it would be better to put less cycles on the battery over time. A smaller battery leads to a disposable product 2-3 years down the road if it is recharged often, and if no replacement batteries are easily available from Fiio.


 
  
 
Actually good quality lithium batteries will last longer. Cahre cycles number in the thousands if not tens of thousands. What actually increases wear is heat, not simply from tightly packed components, but on how you recharge. If you always recharge while the device is in use, then that's a problem since it puts a continuous drain-charge-drain cycle, and it's not simply from that action alone but due to heat build up in the process. Too fast chargers also have a similar though no longer as severe impact (ie not like with NiMH batteries). In short, switch it off, charge it as often as you can and keep the battery full. Even if you have to sleep and leave it plugged in since presumably it has overcharge protection and if the amp is off then there won't be continuous cycling.
 
If anything the more real problem is whether Fiio will maintain a supply of the batteries. Even  if the batteries were larger but you charge while in use you'd still wear it out sooner _and_ end up neeeding a replacement anyway. This is a bigger concern than using a bigger battery unless we're talking about a really short battery life on a single charge, like the Lisa amps.


----------



## Dobrescu George

protegemaniac said:


> OK, obviously you didn't even try to understand what I said about "creative packaging." So I'm gonna draw it in (digital) crayon and show you the problem.
> 
> Diagrams on top are a sample portable amp. No DAC circuit occupying one side of the battery running from rear panel USB to the amp circuit in front. You made the assertion that 10% thicker chassis with all other components the same size will give you a large enough battery to get 50% more battery life, which, we should assume for simplicity's sake, would need roughly a 50% larger battery.
> 
> ... 
  
 This was interesting! 

 I do think that bigger batteries should be a priority! It would help us if we stop chasing the slimmest and we start chasing the best!


----------



## A2029

protegemaniac said:


> OK, obviously you didn't even try to understand what I said about "creative packaging." So I'm gonna draw it in (digital) crayon and show you the problem.
> 
> Diagrams on top are a sample portable amp. No DAC circuit occupying one side of the battery running from rear panel USB to the amp circuit in front. You made the assertion that 10% thicker chassis with all other components the same size will give you a large enough battery to get 50% more battery life, which, we should assume for simplicity's sake, would need roughly a 50% larger battery.
> 
> ...




Hi, thank you for your reply. I'm not trying to stir up any reactions or cause any trouble. And I didn't mean the "10% thicker" thing as an absolute (I.e. I threw out these random numbers simply as a means to denote the problem with ultra-thin devices sacrificing battery life). I was just meaning to say that nowendays slimness is being prioritized to a greater degree than some other features, such as extended battery life. What I should have said originally many posts back is:

"For my usage, and IMO, I wish electronics manufacturers would design portable electronics such that their battery life would last a full day (I'd like the battery life to last from when I wake up, until when I go to bed, a total of 16hrs) and be able to have at least this battery life 2 years down the road. I'd personally rather buy a thicker and larger device and have the feature of a long battery life and less worries about finding a charger to use mid-day or carrying a Powerbank along with me all day."

As Fiio seems to be going with the slimmer and shorter battery life approach in this case, and my above reply is therefore rhetorical, I agree that the real main problem is simply whether Fiio will maintain a replacement battery supply years down the road.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

dobrescu george said:


> This was interesting!
> 
> I do think that bigger batteries should be a priority! It would help us if we stop chasing the slimmest and we start chasing the best!


 
  
Like I said though, it's not that I mean that every device should be on the downward spiral race to the bottom in being slimmer, _but_ compromises between size and battery life aren't as straight cut proportional as "10% thicker = 50% more batt life." It's not as linear much less as drastic as that. That's the reason why, up to a point, manufacturers will have a tendency to just stick with a slimmer amp rather than the diminishing returns for size to gain battery life.
  


swich401 said:


> Hi, thank you for your reply. I'm not trying to stir up any reactions or cause any trouble.


 
  
 And I'm just explaining things with more detail.
  


swich401 said:


> And I didn't mean the "10% thicker" thing as an absolute (I.e. I threw out these random numbers simply as a means to denote the problem with ultra-thin devices sacrificing battery life). I was just meaning to say that nowendays slimness is being prioritized to a greater degree than some other features, such as extended battery life.


 
  
 And like what I pointed about at the beginning of this post and in my prior posts in this exchange is that the relationship between size and battery life isn't linear, even if you're not thinking of such a graph as 10x = 50y. Fiio for example can weight their options and realize that making it thick enough to make appreciable gains in battery life would mean that they'd take a hit on other things, like parts or assembly cost, which then raises the price.
  
 Take the RSA Intruder as an example. It's not that much larger than a CMOY (it might be even smaller than 2ch SE designs), but has waaaaay longer battery life than the Fiio. But you have to pay $700 and still get a chassis with corners that scuff easily and is still too big for anybody's pockets unless they were 1990s pants. Fiio is thinking less of somebody with at least a camera compartment in his laptop bag to lug around a transportable rig and somebody who can just stash it in a soft material-lined area in a bag, if not pocket it and have other stuff elsewhere.
  
 And again they're _bank_ing (teehee) on everybody having a powerbank for their phones anyway, which is great when you're using USB charging.
  
  Quote:


swich401 said:


> What I should have said originally many posts back is:
> 
> "For my usage, and IMO, I wish electronics manufacturers would design portable electronics such that their battery life would last a full day (I'd like the battery life to last from when I wake up, until when I go to bed, a total of 16hrs) and be able to have at least this battery life 2 years down the road. I'd personally rather buy a thicker and larger device and have the feature of a long battery life and less worries about finding a charger to use mid-day or carrying a Powerbank along with me all day."


  

And like I said, everything is a compromise between price, performance, build quality, usability and ergonomics. You can get performance, build quality, and battery life in the RSA Intruder, but you'd have to sacrifice ergonomics (ie the corners make it a lot less pocketable; if RSA went for a chassis like what Fiio is investing in, he'd have to either sell as many, or jack up the price even more) and you need to shell out $700.
 
And again what Fiio was banking on was that people would already have a powerbank with them all day anyway - does your phone last all day running all cellular functions plus a music player (and heck, what if it requires 4G for Spotify or Tidal, or Neutron's DSP) and USB or, hell, BT output to the Q5? I'm going to bet it doesn't, and likely Fiio thought, "meh, their phone's won't last that long, they'd have a powerbank on them."

 Same thing with the X5III. It has a battery life longer than the Teclast T51 while being more responsive (ie not a laggy, slow UI) while having even better audio components (ie it outputs more power). I'd personally lug around a powerbank to recharge a smartphone and the X5III (because I scratched my plans to get a Q5 when that came out) than have the X5III the size of a HiFiMan or Colorfly flagship player which won't fit in a single pocket, while the powerbank is in my laptop bag. So again there's the segmentation and pocketability. And as with the alternate option for you to get the Intruder, if you ever look into DAPs and prefer size over segmentation and powerbanks, there's the AK380.
 
Put another way, it's not like _all_ manufacturers forgot about people who prefer to do it your way, you're just in the wrong thread looking at the wrong manufacturer who isn't doing things your way. Again - RSA Intruder and in case you change your mind to getting a DAP, AK380. Think of it another way: if what I wanted out of a car was that it can seat four people plus luggage, have lots of torque and horsepower, won't cost a hell of a lot of money on fuel, etc, I won't be looking at Fiio's Toyota. I'd look at RSA's Tesla Model S, a quad electric motor, all wheel drive, five passenger midsize sports sedan that can go 400mi on a single charge. But I can't just stop at any Shell, no - I'm gonna have to plan my roadtrip so I can stop at charging stations.
 


swich401 said:


> As Fiio seems to be going with the slimmer and shorter battery life approach in this case, and my above reply is therefore rhetorical, I agree that the real main problem is simply whether Fiio will maintain a replacement battery supply years down the road.


 
 
Yes this is the bigger problem, but like I said, frequent cycles don't wear out the battery as much (over time anyway - just how many times do you charge in a single day to get past the 5,000 proper cycle life?) as heat build up and other manner of improper maintenance.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@ProtegeManiac funny, for me it is the opposite. The Q5 has made we not need/want the X5III as I still carry my phone anyway, so regardless I would be carrying two devices. I do get that the X5III if all else is equal is more convenient in some circumstances, and the need to only consider one battery is a plus instead of worrying about two batteries.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

sonic defender said:


> @ProtegeManiac funny, for me it is the opposite. The Q5 has made we not need/want the X5III as I still carry my phone anyway, so regardless I would be carrying two devices. I do get that the X5III if all else is equal is more convenient in some circumstances, and the need to only consider one battery is a plus instead of worrying about two batteries.


 
 
Either way we'd all potentially have to carry two devices. Initially I wanted the Q5 because it had BT, so if I ever end up with a phone that had no 3.5mm analogue output and no analogue pins on the USB-C, I'll just use the Q5. But then the X5III was announced with key features: it ran Android, it had a 1.9v line out, and we already have the DK1, plus a volume knob. It had what I wanted in AK players (the knob), it had what I needed from the X7 (Android which also means NeutronMusicPlayer, touchscreen, Redbook line out) that I wouldn't pay X7 price for because I could just use my phone (using it now via USB OTG), and everything I needed to run it as a desktop player (Redbook line out, touchscreen, Neutron Music Player, DK1 dock). 
 
Basically, my desktop set up was initially going to be Android phone > Q5 > whatever HPamp I'll be using by that point, but with the X5III, I can reduce it to X5III > HPamp.


----------



## Sonic Defender

protegemaniac said:


> Basically, my desktop set up was initially going to be Android phone > Q5 > whatever HPamp I'll be using by that point, but with the X5III, I can reduce it to X5III > HPamp. 
 Makes sense. For me the Bluetooth in the Q5 is my main attraction as it is nice to just use my phone as a transport and skip the cable. However we get there, as long as we get there right?


----------



## ProtegeManiac

sonic defender said:


> Makes sense. For me the Bluetooth in the Q5 is my main attraction as it is nice to just use my phone as a transport and skip the cable. However we get there, as long as we get there right?


 
  
 Yep. Although if I get spare cash I might still get the Q5.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> *Q5 developing progress update:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 @JamesFiiO
 @demond
  
 Have you settled on a tuning for the Q5?
  
 Any update is much appreciated...


----------



## Sonic Defender

theeldestboy said:


> @JamesFiiO
> @demond
> 
> Have you settled on a tuning for the Q5?
> ...


 
 Why the AM3A? That is designed for at best modest loads if I'm not mistaken, more for IEMs correct? I am having trouble finding the specifications for that module. This is essentially asking many to pay for a module they don't need and will have to upgrade. Again, if I have my modules mixed up forgive me, but I thought the AM3A was less powerful? So if I want to power 64ohm large driver headphones with modest efficiency is this amp module up to the task for listening levels of around 80-90 db (my listening level). Thanks.


----------



## Dobrescu George

TheEldestBoy said:


> @JamesFiiO
> @demond
> 
> Have you settled on a tuning for the Q5?
> ...



Given that Q5 is based on an AK chip, I would expect it to be pretty smooth o the top end, with the great depth and width and air that X7 has given that Q5 will be using the same AMP modules.


----------



## demond (Apr 28, 2017)

TheEldestBoy said:


> @JamesFiiO
> @demond
> 
> Have you settled on a tuning for the Q5?
> ...



We are dealing with the problem of Bluetooth reception and cell phone interference.


----------



## demond

Dobrescu George said:


> Given that Q5 is based on an AK chip, I would expect it to be pretty smooth o the top end, with the great depth and width and air that X7 has given that Q5 will be using the same AMP modules.


Thank you for your advice.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

demond said:


> We are dealing with the problem of Bluetooth reception and cell phone interference.



Thanks for the update.
Any ballpark idea of when the Q5 might be released?  Is it definitely _not_ going to be released until after September 1st?


----------



## demond

TheEldestBoy said:


> Thanks for the update.
> Any ballpark idea of when the Q5 might be released?  Is it definitely _not_ going to be released until after September 1st?


Although there are difficulties, I think Q5 should be listed earlier than the new iPhone.Earlier than September.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Woah, super cool! |

Can't wait to see what new thing FiiO comes with! Hope it will come on handy for some folks! Cheers!


----------



## AudioJimmy

demond said:


> Although there are difficulties, I think Q5 should be listed earlier than the new iPhone.Earlier than September.


September???  Sounds like eternity. And patience is not my strength!


----------



## PopZeus

Who knew making the ultimate game-changing mid-fi portable DAC would take so much effort? (no pressure, guys...)


----------



## OneL0ve

Release the Kraken!!


----------



## demond

The material of Q5 is CNC aluminum，structure is complex, and the function is complete, which leads to the complexity of the system.
After accounting, The cost of the Q5's shell is already over X7. We are not going to sell it very expensive. I was in great pressure!


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Thanks for the update @demond; please keep them coming.  Any new info you guys can continue to provide on the Q5 is much appreciated (I can't wait for this thing to be released!).


----------



## Spazturtle

No chance of USB-C? Micro USB ports die so fast, the port on my E18 is already starting to go after only just over a year.


----------



## Dobrescu George

A few friends from this thread have challenged my views over life and such, especially when it comes to Bluetooth. 

Today, I tried the first high end bluetooth device and I must say, everyone here was right! Bluetooth can sound AWESOME! I  have a Sennheiser Momentum in Ear Wireless and they sound so freaking awesome!!  

I am even more curious to see how Q5 will sound and now I am really enthused about the tech FiiO will put in it! Great job, everyone!


----------



## demond

YES! Bluetooth music will be popular in the future , the smart-phone will gradually cancel the 3.5mm interface. FiiO USB decoder products are also for this consideration.


----------



## Dobrescu George

demond said:


> YES! Bluetooth music will be popular in the future , the smart-phone will gradually cancel the 3.5mm interface. FiiO USB decoder products are also for this consideration.



Well then, I have never really used a phone's 3.5mm output, my most used device has been FiiO X5ii in the past as it is an awesome device! But connecting a DAC/AMP to phone via BT is an awesome idea as well!


----------



## PopZeus

So, the idea is to connect to your phone or source via BT, not connect your DAC to headphones via BT? Or both? This is confusing....


----------



## Dobrescu George

PopZeus said:


> So, the idea is to connect to your phone or source via BT, not connect your DAC to headphones via BT? Or both? This is confusing....



Q5 is a DAC / AMP, the idea would had been to connect it to a smartphone via BT and the headphone via 3.5mm to Q5 if I'm not mistaken. 

You can connect a BT headphone / IEM to Q5 directly as well I think, and this would be a good step if you want to take advantage of APT-X if your phone doesn't allow for it (?)

Lot of potential with this Q5!!


----------



## obsidyen

I'd like Q5 with AM5 module. Will it work well with Fostex TH-610?


----------



## Dobrescu George

obsidyen said:


> I'd like Q5 with AM5 module. Will it work well with Fostex TH-610?



I have the feeling that Q5 + AM03 would work greatly as well as Q5 + AM02, TH 610 sound good with many amps and DACs, they are not that picky


----------



## obsidyen

Any info on release date?..


----------



## FiiO

obsidyen said:


> Any info on release date?..





demond said:


> Although there are difficulties, I think Q5 should be listed earlier than the new iPhone.Earlier than September.


Thank you for the kind support.


----------



## demond (May 27, 2017)

Bluetooth has a new progress, with the iPhone's transmission distance can reach 30 meters.
The hardware problems are basically solved, and some software bugs are waiting for verification.
In addition, I used the Lightning to Micro cable with iPhone and Q5, support IOS10.3.2 system.


----------



## triplew

demond said:


> Bluetooth has a new progress, with the iPhone's transmission distance can reach 30 meters.
> The hardware problems are basically solved, and some software bugs are waiting for verification.
> In addition, I used the Lightning to Micro cable with iPhone and Q5, support IOS10.3.2 system.


That's good news, have been waiting for Q5 for Long time, btw not sure is Q5 being tested with Android phone (Samsung, LG, Xiaomi vs bluetooth & cable) as well?


----------



## demond

triplew said:


> That's good news, have been waiting for Q5 for Long time, btw not sure is Q5 being tested with Android phone (Samsung, LG, Xiaomi vs bluetooth & cable) as well?


As a result of a wide range of Android phones, the system changes frequently, we do not recommend users to use Q5 with Android phone, but we will collect some with the use of cases for reference, type-c and other cable will be sold separately.


----------



## obsidyen

I'm an iPhone and MacBook Pro user so I'm glad that you're making Q5 compatible to Apple products.


----------



## talan7

Bluetooth headphones/earphones render an  amp moot unless the amp can transmit apt x or something. A better use would be hires Bluetooth transmission via apt x from phone to amp, then use regular jack from amp to headphones. At least you wouldn't have to stack. I think the idea of having all dac/amping done through wireless headphones/earphones is not the way of the audiophile.


----------



## demond

Q5 design, consider a wide range of use.
To meet the best sound quality, USB in, Spdif in. 
To meet the best use of convenience, Bluetooth in and regular jack out to headphone.


----------



## Dobrescu George

demond said:


> Q5 design, consider a wide range of use.
> To meet the best sound quality, USB in, Spdif in.
> To meet the best use of convenience, Bluetooth in and regular jack out to headphone.



Cool thoughts! 

It might come in handy to quite a few people looking for a device that can do this!


----------



## jabro (Jun 13, 2017)

This is great news! I recently bought the Q1, and the A5 is in the mail, but really: Q5 is what I need. The Q1 is having difficulties with Apple's broken CCK (ie. Lavricables' Lightning/USB CCK cable: http://www.lavricables.com/cables/reference-silver-lightning-to-chord-hugo-mojo-interconnect-cable/), and I really - really! - hope the Q5 behaves CCK-wise. I'm using my iPhone 6s as transport, so a fully functional CCK connection is essential to me.

Looking forward to it


----------



## SSJ3TM

Fiio, it looks like you are dropping the treble and bass adjusting features of the e7k and e17/17k, and instead using a simple bass boost switch. Is this true? If so, are you also planning this for the upcoming q3? Will you be offering any dac/amps in the future that will have treble and bass adjusting features like the e17/17k? In my opinion, this feature is what has separated your dac/amps from the competition, and has been what keeps me coming back to them.


----------



## demond

SSJ3TM said:


> Fiio, it looks like you are dropping the treble and bass adjusting features of the e7k and e17/17k, and instead using a simple bass boost switch. Is this true? If so, are you also planning this for the upcoming q3? Will you be offering any dac/amps in the future that will have treble and bass adjusting features like the e17/17k? In my opinion, this feature is what has separated your dac/amps from the competition, and has been what keeps me coming back to them.


Bass adjusting features, the Q series products will be used to achieve all the way to a simple switch, including the upcoming Q1Mark Ⅱ. I am sorry E17K to bring you the use of trouble.


----------



## chaiyuta

Any news about FiiO Q5?


----------



## IneffableMusic (Aug 1, 2017)

I am wondering on any news as well. Any updates on changes or ideas/confirmartions. I'm wondering if you will add an es9028. It seems like it's easier to implememt the the 9028 without getting sabre glare as well as perhaps just noticeably better perhaps especially in tonality. I find my LG V10 a little shouty on the upper mids at times. Not sure if that's the 9018 or just choice in tonality.


----------



## demond

Today I used the latest Q5 engineering machine, the specific situation I will continue to share here.


----------



## IneffableMusic

It looks great!


----------



## chaiyuta

@demond : It looks promising. It worths waiting.


----------



## demond

1. Decoding with iPhone normal, computer USB DAC play DSD normal.
2. Line input is normal.
3. Coaxial input with X7 Ⅱ, normal use
4. Optical input, the first time access problems, reset once. Support to 96K, the use of X7 Ⅱ fiber output source
5. VOL Knob feel OK, it can be placed on the desktop with your fingers.
6. Bluetooth connection phone, open and close easy to remember, connect the phone need to wait for red and blue light flash. and pair.
7. Bluetooth connection iPhone, control music keys normal, can not answer calls, you can listen to WeChat.
8. Lamp light effect is good.
9. With K5 use, K5 must power-on to charge Q5, decoding normal.


----------



## Dobrescu George

demond said:


> 1. Decoding with iPhone normal, computer USB DAC play DSD normal.
> 2. Line input is normal.
> 3. Coaxial input with X7 Ⅱ, normal use
> 4. Optical input, the first time access problems, reset once. Support to 96K, the use of X7 Ⅱ fiber output source
> ...



That is looking nice, Demond! 

Quite enthused about FiiO's progress with Q5!


----------



## IneffableMusic

Love the black brushed metal with the different-colour lightbeam based on what the function is. The purple beam with the black is so pretty! Lol. I also like the subtle red accents fiio has been adding lately. They've been doing a great job lately in the design of their products lately imo. They've made products look their own while still being mature, stylish and well-made.


----------



## triplew

demond said:


> 1. Decoding with iPhone normal, computer USB DAC play DSD normal.
> 2. Line input is normal.
> 3. Coaxial input with X7 Ⅱ, normal use
> 4. Optical input, the first time access problems, reset once. Support to 96K, the use of X7 Ⅱ fiber output source
> ...


Please keep us updated, thanks!


----------



## jabro

Looks great, tho I would like to see detail photos of the USB/micro USB ports. The micro USB port isn't just placed on the side of the Q5, right?


----------



## Ab10

jabro said:


> Looks great, tho I would like to see detail photos of the USB/micro USB ports. The micro USB port isn't just placed on the side of the Q5, right?



Micro USB port placed at the bottom so Q5 can be docked on the Top of K5.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Make it in red, so that it can match the red X5iii


----------



## jabro

Ab10 said:


> Micro USB port placed at the bottom so Q5 can be docked on the Top of K5.


Thanks!


----------



## OneL0ve

Fiio are you ready for my Q5 monies yet? (X7 mark II until then)


----------



## elNan

Will the Q5 support balanced line out like the A&K DAPs?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

elNan said:


> Will the Q5 support balanced line out like the A&K DAPs?



What amp are you feeding with the balanced line-out? Looks like we are hoping for the same thing.


----------



## elNan

WayTooCrazy said:


> What amp are you feeding with the balanced line-out? Looks like we are hoping for the same thing.



I'm planning on buying the Cayin iHA6 amplifier and a DAC (or a DAP) with balanced line-out, preferably a portable one. The Q5 will be at the top of my list if it supports this feature. I think this would be a really good feature to have for the Q5 that will set Fiio apart from the competition (at least in the segment of portable DAC/Amps).


----------



## Kolapso

I'm also hoping for a balanced connection on the Q5!


----------



## FiiO

elNan said:


> Will the Q5 support balanced line out like the A&K DAPs?





demond said:


> DAC: AKM4490×2
> LINE IN / OPTICAL IN / COAXIAL IN: one 3.5mm interface
> LINE OUT: one 3.5mm interface
> USB IN 1: Micro USB (Power+Date)
> ...


Seems not.


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Aug 22, 2017)

Yup. Another missed opportunity. Seems like they're on a roll. With the constant issues with my X5iii and the issues I'm reading about the X7ii... I no longer think Fiio has anything for me going forward. The F5 is nice, maybe F9 will be too. Otherwise,  I'll have to look elsewhere.


----------



## elNan

FiiO said:


> Seems not.



I thought "Infinity Sound" was all about Fiio embracing balanced audio, this is disappointing 
Could this be implemented through a new replaceable module?


----------



## Dobrescu George

WayTooCrazy said:


> Yup. Another missed opportunity. Seems like they're on a roll. With the constant issues with my X5iii and the issues I'm reading about the X7ii... I no longer think Fiio has anything for me going forward. The F5 is nice, maybe F9 will be too. Otherwise,  I'll have to look elsewhere.



I haven't gotten an X7mkii on my hands yet, but I haven't noticed anyone complaining about major issues yet (?)


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Dobrescu George said:


> I haven't gotten an X7mkii on my hands yet, but I haven't noticed anyone complaining about major issues yet (?)



Don't have to be major "yet". We still have time and more people need them. I'm still waiting for someone to test the "line-out" feature. Then again, that has always been my biggest interest (and the price point). I recently talked with an insider... and he indicated that the X5iii is the first unit produced by Fiio w/out the help of HiBy (I'm not sure how accurate that is). If that is the case, it kind of explains their growing pains. I'm quick to judge, and often hastily. I don't plan on dumping the X5iii anytime soon. I just would like certain things resolved that we expected would work out of the box (especially the 256gb card issue for me at the moment). The rest of it. I can just watch and see.


----------



## demond

elNan said:


> I thought "Infinity Sound" was all about Fiio embracing balanced audio, this is disappointing
> Could this be implemented through a new replaceable module?


The Q5 replaceable amp module is the same as x7mkⅡ. Model: AM3A


----------



## chaiyuta (Aug 23, 2017)

Is it possible to use external power option (e.g. USB or 5V, 12V adapter)? Using at home with computer, any portable devices with battery have to be concerned when battery exhaust. It will be care-free if I don't have to concern on battery energy


----------



## demond

chaiyuta said:


> Is it possible to use external power option (e.g. USB or 5V, 12V adapter)? Using at home with computer, any portable devices with battery have to be concerned when battery exhaust. It will be care-free if I don't have to concern on battery energy


If you connected Q5 to the computer, you can connect to another micro USB interface, on the side, for the USB 5V power supply in.


----------



## jabro

I really am looking massively forward to the Q5. I know it's been asked a million times, but we must be getting closer to a release date. Any news?


----------



## chaiyuta

@demond : From the picture, there are one micro USB at the side of Q5 and one micro USB at the bottom of an AMP module, aren't there?


----------



## demond

yes, you are right.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

@demond 
@FiiO 

Any update on when we might see this product? 

I believe that you previously said "September".

Looking forward to the Q5!


----------



## Vergil (Sep 16, 2017)

demond said:


> The Q5 replaceable amp module is the same as x7mkⅡ. Model: AM3A



Making interchangeable amp modules that are compatible with all high-end FiiO DAPs and DACs instead of releasing separate analogue amplifiers is a good idea. It means we can update the AMP and DAP/DAC independently *and *have only one device at the same time. However we can go even further. The X and Q lineup could use the exact same DAC/AMP implementations. I'm not necessarily saying the DAC should also be turned into a module like the amplifier, because that would be pain in the arse to design, what I'm trying to say is that the Q line-up could be a modified X line-up. Remove the "smartphone" parts, throw in some DSPs, write some basic software and call it a day. Heck, you could even use the same chassis (with different cutouts of course). You would still need to design two players (X and Q variants) for each price segment (1, 3, 5, 7), but only one DAC/AMP.

I do realize FiiO already reuses previous designs, but I have no idea to what extent. Is the Q5 similar to the X5III? Is it more like the X7II? It's called Q5 (not Q7), but it has an amp module like the X7. The F9 was also released recently, so I'm kinda confused with all these names. Maybe the Q lineup will only have 3 members because they are cheaper, so Q1 = X3, Q3 = X5 and Q5 = Q7? Or are they completely different devices and are sonically incomparable?

...or you can just release the damned device, so I can buy one and shut the hell up.


----------



## IneffableMusic

Would it be possible to e.q. the q5 in apps through your smartphone like for example hiby, onkyo music when it's connected through usb? If that isn't possible I would love if the q5 had more of a custom e.q. than just a bass boost switch. Also, digital filters would be excellent. I really hope it comes with an es9028 pro just like the x7 and the same reference sound. If it comes with the 9028pro regardless of e.q. I'm buying it.


----------



## Vergil

IneffableMusic said:


> Would it be possible to e.q. the q5 in apps through your smartphone like for example hiby, onkyo music when it's connected through usb? If that isn't possible I would love if the q5 had more of a custom e.q. than just a bass boost switch. Also, digital filters would be excellent. I really hope it comes with an es9028 pro just like the x7 and the same reference sound. If it comes with the 9028pro regardless of e.q. I'm buying it.



Bass boost is analogue (done by the Q5's AMP). Digital processing (EQ, effects etc.) can be done on the smartphone.


----------



## IneffableMusic

Vergil said:


> Bass boost is analogue (done by the Q5's AMP). Digital processing (EQ, effects etc.) can be done on the smartphone.


Awesome!


----------



## demond

Q series models and X series no reference relationship, even in the sound quality. Q series of 1-3-5, respectively, refers to the entry level, professional level, high-end three grades.That is the Q5 sound quality will be X series flagship product level.
At the same time, I would like to tell you that, in order to better Bluetooth sound quality, would like to further adjust to APTX-HD, then the product will continue to delay.
Very very sorry. And I plan to sell a batch of "experience machine", so as to get more feedback, the specific approach I am working on.


----------



## IneffableMusic

demond said:


> Q series models and X series no reference relationship, even in the sound quality. Q series of 1-3-5, respectively, refers to the entry level, professional level, high-end three grades.That is the Q5 sound quality will be X series flagship product level.
> At the same time, I would like to tell you that, in order to better Bluetooth sound quality, would like to further adjust to APTX-HD, then the product will continue to delay.
> Very very sorry. And I plan to sell a batch of "experience machine", so as to get more feedback, the specific approach I am working on.


I think APTX - HD is quite a good idea and I think it's worth the wait. Whatever improves the product further is worth it and I don't find it unfair or anything to keep going back to tweak and adjust the product. That's what can make a product so great is going back and taking your time to work on it as opposed to rushing it because people want a better deadline.


----------



## chaiyuta

@demond : How about including Bluetooth 5.0?


----------



## Ab10

AptX-HD required Bluetooth 5.0....Right ?

As I find the Oneplus 5 phone offers the same.


----------



## Vergil

Ab10 said:


> AptX-HD required Bluetooth 5.0....Right ?
> 
> As I find the Oneplus 5 phone offers the same.


LG G5 has Aptx-HD and it's a BT4.2 phone.



demond said:


> That is the Q5 sound quality will be X series flagship product level.


Awesome. Originally wanted to buy the X7II, but didn't want to deal with that entry level android experience from 2014.


----------



## demond

In fact, Android 7.0 firmware or later all can support APTX-HD, but some mobile phone factory has not yet purchased Qualcomm authorization, so there is no open this feature.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

@demond
Do you think we might not see it until 2018 now?

I agree that you should take the time to get it right. 

I currently use the original Fiio Q1 with my HD 600's, and I'm waiting patiently to upgrade to the Q5.  I've considered other options in the meantime (Oppo HA-2, Mojo, iFi Black Label) but I'm holding out for the Q5.

We've waited this long , so waiting a bit longer to get it right is okay with me.


----------



## duyu

Delay for Aptx-hd is worthwile. This can make Q5 more versatile.


----------



## Vergil

duyu said:


> Delay for Aptx-hd is worthwile. This can make Q5 more versatile.


+1

I don't even know how I'm supposed to use the device in wired mode. I won't put a metal box next to my smartphone, so how do I connect them if they are not in the same pocket? BT is much more practical. I can place the DAC in a backpack, shoulder bag, armband or wherever I want, forget it exists and control everything on my smartphone that has no cables attached to it.

I use an X5II + A5 stack daily and it works quite well, however stacking and "de-stacking" the Q5 with a smartphone every time you want to listen to music seems like a nightmare. BT is the way to go.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Yes Bluetooth is the way to go, but personally I will be surprised if the difference between Apt x HD and Apt x can be heard. In a proper blind listening experiment I conducted with 7 young head-fi members, controlled everything well, each user did multiple trials not one could do better than 50% detecting a 320mp3 as compared with the lossless master it was made from. Given that, and this is actually the normal result when you read about properly done listening tests, not those invalid sighted tests when people known what they are listening to, it makes me wonder if the measureable differences will be audible?


----------



## Vergil (Sep 20, 2017)

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes Bluetooth is the way to go, but personally I will be surprised if the difference between Apt x HD and Apt x can be heard. In a proper blind listening experiment I conducted with 7 young head-fi members, controlled everything well, each user did multiple trials not one could do better than 50% detecting a 320mp3 as compared with the lossless master it was made from. Given that, and this is actually the normal result when you read about properly done listening tests, not those invalid sighted tests when people known what they are listening to, it makes me wonder if the measurable differences will be audible?


Never used aptX before so dunno how it sounds. As long as it's wireless, reliable, easy to use and offers the same sound quality as wired solutions it's fine. In other words I'm not saying aptx HD is a must, but I do say BT should be the main focus (for input), not just an afterthought.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Vergil said:


> Never used aptX before so dunno how it sounds. As long as it's wireless, reliable, easy to use and offers the same sound quality as wired solutions it's fine. In other words I'm not saying aptx HD is a must, but I do say BT should be the main focus (for input), not just an afterthought.


Apt x sounds excellent, likely transparent to the user, and I agree, wireless is for sure the way to go and deserves to be treated as more than an afterthought. I have the iFi iOne DAC with Bluetooth and the BT implementation is quite good so I expect that FiiO will do just as good a job.


----------



## IneffableMusic

Could I use a microsd card through usb or other external storage at the same time as using the q5, such as with a usb cable with a splitter, or something of the like? Could I charge the phone at the same time as using the q5, and lastly, can I charge the phone with the q5, or even charge the q5 while using it with a phone? Sorry for all the questions.


----------



## Vergil (Sep 22, 2017)

IneffableMusic said:


> Could I use a microsd card through usb or other external storage at the same time as using the q5, such as with a usb cable with a splitter, or something of the like? Could I charge the phone at the same time as using the q5, and lastly, can I charge the phone with the q5, or even charge the q5 while using it with a phone? Sorry for all the questions.


You connect via USB or BT, what your player can or cannot do while being connected to the Q5 is up to the player.

On most Android smartphones you can connect via BT and use the smartphone's usb port for charging or external storage. Generally speaking if you can play the song on the Smartphone's speakers you can also transfer it to the Q5 as long as either BT or USB is free (not used by other devices).


----------



## AzureSerenity

Personally I would hope it will also support LDAC, which allows for 990kbps connection but I guess sony is not opening that standard up yet


----------



## Jerda

Hi Desmond, very interested in Q5, can I ask if it will play MQA natively?
I don't have any cd or High fidelity music so I usually listen music from Tidal so MQA would be a big plus in the choice of a new amp/dac


----------



## IneffableMusic

Jerda said:


> Hi Desmond, very interested in Q5, can I ask if it will play MQA natively?
> I don't have any cd or High fidelity music so I usually listen music from Tidal so MQA would be a big plus in the choice of a new amp/dac


I think he said earlier that it doesn't support it, which would mean if it doesn't it will play MQA up to 96khz through the software decoding for example on tidal. When the hardware you have also has hardware decoding of MQA it will fully unfold the MQA file into 192khz if it is a 192khz file. I would love if they added MQA support though even if it made things take even longer.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

I'm looking for a portable dac/amp to drive my HD 600's (and eventually the HD 650's and HD 800S, when I obtain them) from my iPhone.

I need a bass boost option (which the Oppo HA-2, the iFi Black Label, and the Fiio Q5 all have).

I want a sound signature that is neutral-to-warm (which rules-out the analytic sound of the Oppo HA-2).

I'm liking the form factor of the Fiio Q5 better than the iFi Black Label.
I'm liking that the Fiio Q5 will be more affordable than the iFi Black Label.
Frankly, I don't need the crazy amount of power that the iFi Black Label provides (I listen at relatively low volumes).  Just as long as the Fiio Q5 provides enough power to property drive the headphones I mentioned above.
I'm hopping that the sound signature of the Fiio Q5 is warmer than the IfI Black Label (I prefer a warmer sound signature, as I'm sensitive to higher frequencies).

We'll see (hopefully don't have to wait until 2018)...


----------



## Sonic Defender

TheEldestBoy said:


> I'm looking for a portable dac/amp to drive my HD 600's (and eventually the HD 650's and HD 800S, when I obtain them) from my iPhone.
> 
> I need a bass boost option (which the Oppo HA-2, the iFi Black Label, and the Fiio Q5 all have).
> 
> ...


I'll be shocked if this is out before 2018. Hopefully I'm wrong. I really wanted this device, but gave up waiting. I understand that for FiiO the big market is in DAPs so you can bet the lions share of their development efforts are going into DAPs.


----------



## Jerda

I wish I could buy a Q5 instead of a MoJo in January


----------



## Sonic Defender

Jerda said:


> I wish I could buy a Q5 instead of a MoJo in January


I own a Mojo, and it really is a pretty stunning device truth be told. If it had Bluetooth built into in it would be pretty awesome for sure. I know you can add the Polly but that is a pretty expensive thing if somebody like me was simply trying to add Bluetooth. I think that Bluetooth will be almost standard on pretty much all new devices like the Q5. I am still very interested to hear the Q5 as I know FiiO makes great sounding devices so it should be a very nice addition to the market.


----------



## willywill

The Q5 is not out yet but those who want a bluetooth portable DAC/AMP Mcintosh got your back http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=lifestyle&ProductId=MHA50


----------



## mandrake50

Interesting device, though the sparse specs are not terribly impressive.  200 mw, but I did not see an impedance listed. 6 hours playback time is a bit less than what I would like.
I wonder if they will have them at RMAF so I might get a listen.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Not to mention the price will be stupid, almost for sure.


----------



## IneffableMusic

Sonic Defender said:


> Not to mention the price will be stupid, almost for sure.


It was listed at l think $800 or something, has only 6 hours of battery life (anything under 8 is unacceptable imo), and no balanced output. I couldn't even find any mention of what dac or amp it uses.


----------



## IneffableMusic

It seems to me the fiio q5 will really revolutionize our portable dac market. I've been waiting years for something that is small enough for the pocket with a phone, with a totl dac chip and amp (or at least mobile es9018 or something), balanced output, and being able to decode at least 192/24 and dsd natively. I'm really hoping to see a es9028pro in the q5. The 9018 is outdated now with its sabre glare. The 9028 from what I've read eliminates that problem and adds a more percieved flat response than a measured one, and measured flat imo is not flat. More modern studio gear these days has a small compensation curve to be more percieved as flat than having that touch of extra treble.


----------



## OneL0ve (Oct 1, 2017)

HI, I haven't been in here for a while, but I am still patiently waiting for the Q5 to be released. Did they make a final decision on the DAC? Will they be AK4490s?

Also, since the website redesign I can't find how to search within an actual thread (not a forum). Where did the "Search within this thread" link go?


----------



## IneffableMusic

OneL0ve said:


> HI, I haven't been in here for a while, but I am still patiently waiting for the Q5 to be released. Did they make a final decision on the Amps? Will they be AK4490s?
> 
> Also, since the website redesign I can't find how to search within an actual thread (not a forum). Where did the "Search within this thread" link go?


As far as amps go they're going with the am3a which ships with the x7ii also. As far as dac chips are concerned theu haven't said much other than on the front page the consideration of a high end one like an ak4490, es9018, possibly dual chips.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Hope they opt for the AK chips over the 9018.


----------



## OneL0ve

IneffableMusic said:


> As far as amps go they're going with the am3a which ships with the x7ii also. As far as dac chips are concerned theu haven't said much other than on the front page the consideration of a high end one like an ak4490, es9018, possibly dual chips.


Sorry, I meant DACs. The only reason I am interested in the Q5 is for dual AK4490s. Fingers crossed.


----------



## 397324

Could FiiO not post a release date, so customers who have been waiting over two years wouldn't jump ship


----------



## peterzzz

Better yet, do that aptx-hd thing as a later firmware update and release now


----------



## OneL0ve

Can anyone tell me where they hid the "Search within this thread" feature?


----------



## GrussGott

Well, I guess count me on the waiting list now as I'm looking for a DAC/Amp to drive my Aeon Flux I just can't get myself to the realization I need to drop $3000 on a DAC/Amp


----------



## peterzzz

GrussGott said:


> Well, I guess count me on the waiting list now as I'm looking for a DAC/Amp to drive my Aeon Flux I just can't get myself to the realization I need to drop $3000 on a DAC/Amp



I should take delivery of a Centrance Bluedac soon, I'll let you know how well it drives my Alpha Dogs.


----------



## mandrake50

GrussGott said:


> Well, I guess count me on the waiting list now as I'm looking for a DAC/Amp to drive my Aeon Flux I just can't get myself to the realization I need to drop $3000 on a DAC/Amp


 You really don't need to spend $3K. Many might tell you that, but you don't.  I like listening to my Aeon through a iDSD Black Label. It can be had for under $600 (I got one brand new on sale for $380). I don't know whether you need portable, but there is lots of very nice setups for well under $1000 for the desktop. Some may disagree, but I find the Aeon to be quite easy to drive... and drive well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mandrake50 said:


> You really don't need to spend $3K. Many might tell you that, but you don't.  I like listening to my Aeon through a iDSD Black Label. It can be had for under $600 (I got one brand new on sale for $380). I don't know whether you need portable, but there is lots of very nice setups for well under $1000 for the desktop. Some may disagree, but I find the Aeon to be quite easy to drive... and drive well.



I agree with you. Yu can enjoy a lot of gear without brekaing the bank. 

iDSD BL, DX200, X7mkii, Opus #2, all of those bring a lot of enjoyment and besides #2, all of them are well under 1000$. 

If one needs more power, X7mkii and DX200 can have extra AMPs, and iDSD BL is an excellent DAC/AMP that still has one of the best sounds out there!


----------



## PopZeus (Oct 20, 2017)

Holy moley. It's been over 2 years since this was announced. Do all products take this long to go to market? I just hope the sound quality is flagship and worth the wait.


----------



## PurpleRain

Good news


----------



## PopZeus

I'm not sure the word "news" means what you think it means.


----------



## IneffableMusic

They posted the picture PurpleRain posted, on fb. The caption said there's an announcement Nov. 4th for the Fiio Q5!


----------



## PopZeus

IneffableMusic said:


> They posted the picture PurpleRain posted, on fb. The caption said there's an announcement Nov. 4th for the Fiio Q5!



Heh. I figured there was some news associated with a snazzy new studio photography. I was hoping someone such as yourself or PurpleRain might share. So, thanks! Looking forward to whatever is revealed on Nov 4th.


----------



## Dobrescu George

@FiiO The new Q5 looks awesome dudes!


----------



## FiiO

Dobrescu George said:


> @FiiO The new Q5 looks awesome dudes!


----------



## IneffableMusic

Agreed!


----------



## Dobrescu George

I think that all the waiting we've done for Q5 is totally going to be worth it!


----------



## Battlefier

I seems like the Q5 will use the amp of the X7 and X7 II if you look at the bottom left of the picture...


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Or if you scroll a few pages back you'll be certain of that...


----------



## Battlefier

KopaneDePooj said:


> Or if you scroll a few pages back you'll be certain of that...



Or if I read for closely the title of the thread xD
My bad.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Question: Is the Q5 or for that matter - any other external DAC capable of sending the input from an in-line cable remote from headphones to the player? (play/pause, skip, volume)


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Battlefier said:


> Or if I read for closely the title of the thread xD
> My bad.


Yep, didn't see that either )


----------



## Dobrescu George

KopaneDePooj said:


> Question: Is the Q5 or for that matter - any other external DAC capable of sending the input from an in-line cable remote from headphones to the player? (play/pause, skip, volume)



None I know of. 

And I'm not sure if any will be. Unles it is Bluetooth and programmed especially to do this. 

Simply, this is because the DAC signal goes into the line out, which doesn't usually have the pin connectors to use the remote commands.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Dobrescu George said:


> None I know of.
> 
> And I'm not sure if any will be. Unles it is Bluetooth and programmed especially to do this.
> 
> Simply, this is because the DAC signal goes into the line out, which doesn't usually have the pin connectors to use the remote commands.



Thanks, I was tempted to wait for this or get a DFR instead of buying the X5 III, but I realized that the in-line remote will not work... and I got so used to it.
So... the X5III will be. And also avoid stacking. Will be enough with my Momentum 2. Hope to get a good price for BF.


----------



## Dobrescu George

KopaneDePooj said:


> Thanks, I was tempted to wait for this or get a DFR instead of buying the X5 III, but I realized that the in-line remote will not work... and I got so used to it.
> So... the X5III will be. And also avoid stacking. Will be enough with my Momentum 2. Hope to get a good price for BF.



I'd also recommend checking out X7mkii, if it is not too much above or beyond your budget. 

X5-3 is awesome if you love a smooth sound!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Dobrescu George said:


> I'd also recommend checking out X7mkii, if it is not too much above or beyond your budget.
> 
> X5-3 is awesome if you love a smooth sound!


I had the X5 III tested for two days and I liked it's smooth signature very much. Much better than my HTC 10 in terms of detailing, refinement and stage, and it is already beyond my budget because I buy in Europe for the regular price of 465 EUR instead of 400 USD 
Hoping for a more approachable BF offer here


----------



## Dobrescu George

KopaneDePooj said:


> I had the X5 III tested for two days and I liked it's smooth signature very much. Much better than my HTC 10 in terms of detailing, refinement and stage, and it is already beyond my budget because I buy in Europe for the regular price of 465 EUR instead of 400 USD
> Hoping for a more approachable BF offer here



Aw, that is the shop I was going to recommend. They do awesome deals for FiiO stuff in Europe!


----------



## FiiO

FiiO 2017 Autumn Launch Event is now on!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/infinity-sound-fiio-2017-autumn-launch-event.864301/


----------



## FiiO

Showtime for the Flagship Bluetooth DSD DAC & Amplifier Q5! After more than two years' reseach and develepment, it's finally here. Let's check for an introduction video first!


----------



## FiiO

All aluminum alloy CNCed Chassis + PU leather at the rear  + ADC volume adjustment knob + Side functional buttons + Interchangeable amp module design + Fully compatible with the X7/X7MKII's various modules


----------



## FiiO

Flagship Bluetooth DSD DAC & Amplifier Q5

 Dual AK4490EN DACs + Being equipped with the XUF208 of XMOS platform + Official Apple MFi certified chips + Use Qualcomm CSR8670 as the Bluetooth chip + Power supply filter and switching circuit + Professional audio architecture circuit + 3800mAh rechargeable lithium battery


----------



## FiiO

Features 1): USB DAC supports 384k/32bit and DSD256 + Dual Micro USB ports + Aux/Coax/Optical 3-in-1 composite output port + Line Out/ Bundled with AM3A serving up both balanced and single-ended headphone output + Input detection + Supports Bluetooth aptX + Gain and Bass boost + Idle time power off + Intelligent power control


----------



## FiiO

Features 2): Working status indicator + USB input + Supports devices with WM port + Coaxial input + Optical input + Line input + Bluetooth input + DSD indicator + Docking function (K5)


----------



## FiiO

Certificates: Honored to obtain three great certificates-- Hi-Res audio certification + Apple MFi certification +Bluetooth aptX certification (can be checked on Qualcomm website)


----------



## FiiO

E. Color / Accessories: Titanium; Provided with Lightning-Micro USB cable + USB cable + Silicone bands (long + short) + 3.5mm coaxial adapter cable + 3.5mm optical adapter + 3.5mm audio cable + Silicone pad + Cloth carrying pouch


----------



## FiiO

The summary of Part 3 for Flagship Bluetooth DSD DAC & Amplifier Q5

Retail Price in USA: $349.99 / Market release date: Estimated in December, 2017


----------



## chaiyuta

Oh Noooo, It uses CSR8670...  Why don't it use CSR8675 instead??
8670 : Bluetooth 5.0 + aptX classic
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/csr8670
8675 : Bluetooth 5.0 + aptX HD
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/csr8675


----------



## IneffableMusic

I'm hoping it has the same reference sound the x7ii has. I'm not sure if it's just the implementation on the x5iii or also just the 4490's tone is warm, but hoping the 2 mobile 4490's stacks well against the 1 desktop es9028pro in the x7ii. Fingers crossed!


----------



## AzureSerenity

chaiyuta said:


> Oh Noooo, It uses CSR8670...  Why don't it use CSR8675 instead??
> 8670 : Bluetooth 5.0 + aptX classic
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/csr8670
> 8675 : Bluetooth 5.0 + aptX HD
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/csr8675


This is disappointing after all the waiting. sad


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 4, 2017)

@AzureSerenity : Beside the CSR8670 chip, Q5 specs looks promising. Dual micro-usb ports for those who want to use as desktop with computer can no worry on battery issue. Swap-able AMP module feature. Even though AK4490EN is not the highest flagship chip (AK4497EQ) [link] (You might see in 'new generation' line-up has new chip called "AK4492ECB"), but the design is DUAL DACs. Not bad for Q5's price.


----------



## superuser1

Interesting apart from the lack of aptx HD


----------



## xLoud

Its price(349$) is close to iFI iDSD BL(on 380$ from time to time). It will be interesting to see how it performs against iDSD. I think iDSD too tough to beat for the price.


----------



## superuser1

xLoud said:


> Its price(349$) is close to iFI iDSD BL(on 380$ from time to time). It will be interesting to see how it performs against iDSD. I think iDSD too tough to beat for the price.


I wholeheartedly agree with you. However for people who want to have BT and balanced may give this a try.


----------



## 435279

xLoud said:


> Its price(349$) is close to iFI iDSD BL(on 380$ from time to time). It will be interesting to see how it performs against iDSD. I think iDSD too tough to beat for the price.



In the UK it will be £349 only a few £'s lower than Mojo.  Fiio appear to be going more upmarket especially with prices, that may be a mistake.

No mention of Android support either?


----------



## PopZeus

I think they said something at one point about aptX HD being too expensive either in parts cost or battery drain. I'm not super invested in BT yet, so I'm okay with waiting for it to get rolled out with the Q5ii.


----------



## chaiyuta

but FiiO said Q5ii is the 'flagship'.. again 'flagship'... not entry-level. Among codecs, aptx HD is still not the best, but LDAC is the best. How can we said to be aptX classic.. is suitable to 'flagship'.. lol
At the end, I think a person who own smartphone android 8.0 (for aptX HD and even LDAC support) + snapdragon 835, 660 and 630 (for lastest bluetooth 5.0) could directly connect his bluetooth earphones instead rely on Q5ii.


----------



## PopZeus

I'm just repeating what was was previously stated. I think their point being, "flagship" doesn't necessarily mean bleeding edge everything. To you, flagship means latest BT tech. To me, I'd rather they focus on sound quality and battery life. Considering FiiO is not the price/performance leader in this highly competitive DAC/DAP field, I'm okay with the choices made (assuming the Q5 does indeed sound great).


----------



## KopaneDePooj

chaiyuta said:


> but FiiO said Q5ii is the 'flagship'.. again 'flagship'... not entry-level. Among codecs, aptx HD is still not the best, but LDAC is the best. How can we said to be aptX classic.. is suitable to 'flagship'.. lol
> At the end, I think a person who own smartphone android 8.0 (for aptX HD and even LDAC support) + snapdragon 835, 660 and 630 (for lastest bluetooth 5.0) could directly connect his bluetooth earphones instead rely on Q5ii.



You got it all wrong, this device is not intended for use with bluetooth headphones. It uses bluetooth just to RECEIVE digital signal and then convert it to analog using its dual DACs and then SEND it to analog headphone jack.
If you would use it with bluetooth headphones it would make no sense, because the DACs won't do their job. The conversion would take place in your BT headphones.


----------



## chaiyuta

@KopaneDePooj : Thanks, I got it. it is Bluetooth reciever not sender? Then it receives almost CD quality digital signal then convert upscale (or not upscale) via DUAL DAC/ DUAL amp... then it is just secondary optional input since I think everybody might stick on USB input or others which have more capable to get more sound quality. In my opinion, why don't they get bluetooth out so that the product will have more space room for bigger battery or lower price purpose.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

chaiyuta said:


> @KopaneDePooj : Thanks, I got it. it is Bluetooth reciever not sender? Then it receives almost CD quality digital signal then convert upscale (or not upscale) via DUAL DAC/ DUAL amp... then it is just secondary optional input since I think everybody might stick on USB input or others which have more capable to get more sound quality. In my opinion, why don't they get bluetooth out so that the product will have more space room for bigger battery or lower price purpose.


Because using Bluetooth input you may indeed theoretically loose some quality, but you gain convenience of avoiding stacking, you can keep your DAC in one pocket and phone in the other one, operate the phone freely + on Android USB output to external DAC is problematic, not officially supported (from what I understand) so Bluetooth with Android may be preferable.


----------



## xLoud (Nov 4, 2017)

I still think they should have put the price little lower just to avoid the battle with ifi iDSD and Mojo. Those are quite impossible to beat for the price, specially iDSD considering it is capable of driving almost any non-electrostat out there with authority. Hope q5 beat them and I will replace my iDSD with a Q5.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

I'm deciding between waiting for the Q5 and using it with my HTC 10 over Bluetooth or getting the X5 3rd gen for a good BF price...


----------



## 435279

KopaneDePooj said:


> I'm deciding between waiting for the Q5 and using it with my HTC 10 over Bluetooth or getting the X5 3rd gen for a good BF price...



That's a tricky question to answer, I think the Q5 should give better sound, although probably not over Bluetooth (Interchangeable amp modules, less built in circuitry to add RF interference) but the X5iii will give more flexibility (eg 2x uSD slots vs HTC10 single uSD)


----------



## Dobrescu George

xLoud said:


> I still think they should have put the price little lower just to avoid the battle with ifi iDSD and Mojo. Those are quite impossible to beat for the price, specially iDSD considering it is capable of driving almost any non-electrostat out there with authority. Hope q5 beat them and I will replace my iDSD with a Q5.



I will test it against iDSD BL when I get the chance. I don't know how it will perform, given that we know both the AMP modules and their sound, and the DAC chip... The DAC alone is more revealing on iDSD BL, but it really depends if FiiO went for a different implementation on Q5 than other implementations of it.  



KopaneDePooj said:


> I'm deciding between waiting for the Q5 and using it with my HTC 10 over Bluetooth or getting the X5 3rd gen for a good BF price...



BT will degrade the signal a bit, compared to listening native to X5-3

X5-3 has 2 mSD slots

Having the AMP modules of X7, Q5 has more potential for high power amounts, if you have hard to drive headphones. 

Sound: X5-3 is extremely smooth. Do you like smooth signatures? If not, maybe Q5 will be better for you.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Dobrescu George said:


> I will test it against iDSD BL when I get the chance. I don't know how it will perform, given that we know both the AMP modules and their sound, and the DAC chip... The DAC alone is more revealing on iDSD BL, but it really depends if FiiO went for a different implementation on Q5 than other implementations of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the sound will be close to X5 III, given the DAC is the same. The DAC should be implemented with its native sound, tuning it for more brightness to give the impression of more resolution would be a mistake.
I liked the sound of X5 III, it is smooth but I didn't find it too smooth, just right and pleasing for my taste. HTC 10 is even darker, the X5 was more revealing and separated with better stage in comparison.
Truth is I never heard a Sabre DAC or DAP so I cannot compare with that, but I had problems with brighter headphones and I like a more natural, warmer sound with full bodied vocals. 
In the past I had to EQ down almost every headphone I had in the upper mid to treble region and add a bit more mid bass. Until I found the Momentum 2 which are perfect for me without EQ.

About Q5 used with Bluetooth - I hope it at least preserves resolution and clean sound intact up to mp3 320 kbps, or better - CD quality. It would be enough for me.
But I also think the price is a bit high for Q5, 300 $ would have made it a better buy. At this price of 350, the X5 discounted is more tempting.


----------



## 13-7

Question: Does the Q5 come with three different crystal oscillators just like the X7 Mk. II?


----------



## blazinblazin

I would say, just wait for it to be released, have a listen before complaining.


----------



## fish1050

chaiyuta said:


> but FiiO said Q5ii is the 'flagship'.. again 'flagship'... not entry-level. Among codecs, aptx HD is still not the best, but LDAC is the best. How can we said to be aptX classic.. is suitable to 'flagship'.. lol
> At the end, I think a person who own smartphone android 8.0 (for aptX HD and even LDAC support) + snapdragon 835, 660 and 630 (for lastest bluetooth 5.0) could directly connect his bluetooth earphones instead rely on Q5ii.



You can get Apt-HD and LDAC in the $219.00 Sony A45 DAP (future firmware update) but Fiio can't afford to put it in a $350.00 Amp/DAC?  Only 150 mW in 32 ohms SE vs 190 mW in the Q1 for $200.00 less and half the battery life via amp vs Q1.  Yet another Fiio product that only outputs decent power via balanced output.  As for bluetooth support you can get better support from pretty much every DAP on the market many for less than the Q5.  I understand you are trying to take advantage of the Apple device market but how about you throw us non-Apple users who don't use balanced headphones a bone and release something that fits our needs at some point!  Every DAP and most smartphones for that matter support bluetooth already!   

Do me a favor Fiio, release an updated A3 amp with 200 mW or so into 32 ohms and 20 to 25 hours battery life and I might buy one.  Your everything but the kitchen sink Amp/DAC's are of zero use to me since I don't have balanced output headphones and my DAP's offer better bluetooth support for less money.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

13-7 said:


> Question: Does the Q5 come with three different crystal oscillators just like the X7 Mk. II?



I saw a picture on FB and it looked like 2  but i could be wrong


----------



## 13-7 (Nov 6, 2017)

Hawaiibadboy said:


> I saw a picture on FB and it looked like 2  but i could be wrong



Not sure if we are talking about the same pic/diagram, but didn't it just show the dual DACs?


----------



## frifox

Two USB ports, one for data and other for charging. Does that mean if I'm connecting to a PC then I would HAVE to use 2 usb cables if I'm planning on keeping it running for more than the battery-life allows?

If so, that would be quite an inconvenience...


----------



## fish1050 (Nov 6, 2017)

Since the Q1 II and Q5 are now released I guess we should have a good idea of what the Q3 will have to offer.  The only question is will it be closer to the Q5 or the Q1-II spec wise or somewhere right in the middle?

You show that the Q5 will work with Sony Dap's with the WM-Port but feature wise it makes no sense.  The Sony DAP's already have better bluetooth functionality and very good DAC sections.  All they really need is more power and a $100.00 portable amp will give you that.  I have the A17 and I am looking to get the A45 and the Q5 and Q1-II and likely the Q3 don't offer enough power via SE output and have features I don't need.   The A5 is more power than I need and I want better battery life and the A3 is old and is in need of an update and I sold the one I had.  That just leaves the Q1 which I currently own and will use until I can decide on a new portable amp. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will be a Fiio product based on what they have to offer at the moment.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Price?

Power output?

If it sounds anything like the x5iii thats not a good thing. For me anyways.


----------



## PopZeus

They mentioned a $349 price tag a few pages back. A FiiO rep also posted slides from the recent Q5 deck. Power output might be listed among the specs announced.


----------



## sjb57

PopZeus said:


> They mentioned a $349 price tag a few pages back. A FiiO rep also posted slides from the recent Q5 deck. Power output might be listed among the specs announced.


uses x7 amp modules so power a matter of choice or default amp supplied.


----------



## PopZeus

sjb57 said:


> uses x7 amp modules so power a matter of choice or default amp supplied.



Good thing, that's my preference! Medium power, balanced out, right?


----------



## demond

13-7 said:


> Not sure if we are talking about the same pic/diagram, but didn't it just show the dual DACs?


DAC：AK4490EN×2


frifox said:


> Two USB ports, one for data and other for charging. Does that mean if I'm connecting to a PC then I would HAVE to use 2 usb cables if I'm planning on keeping it running for more than the battery-life allows?
> 
> If so, that would be quite an inconvenience...


There are two USB interfaces. You don't have to connect all to use it,
Q5 Working current is about 370mAh, When the USB interface is plugged into the computer can be charged at the same time. Computer USB interface power supply is not stable, some current smaller, while others can reach 1A.
Another USB interface as an optional use, you can plug a more stable power adapter, so you can charge more quickly, but also on the sound quality is helpful, free from computer power pollution.


alphanumerix1 said:


> Price?
> 
> Power output?
> 
> If it sounds anything like the x5iii thats not a good thing. For me anyways.


Price: 349.99USD
Power output: >150mW(PO/32Ω);  >400mW(BAL./32Ω)
Battery: 3800mAh (DAC>10h)


----------



## demond

PopZeus said:


> Good thing, that's my preference! Medium power, balanced out, right?


Bottom amp module interface: 3.5 PO, micro USB, 2.5BAL.
Top interface and switch: 3.5 line out, 3.5 input (AUX/coaxial/optical), BASS ON/OFF, GAIN L/H


----------



## chaiyuta

dual usb port is really good design. If anybody mostly use it as desktop, you could get the benefit from this design. No need to buy iFi iDefender..


----------



## FiiO

Review of FiiO Autumn Launch Event in Guangzhou and Tokyo: click here.
Market release date of Q5: Estimated in December, 2017


----------



## 13-7

demond said:


> DAC：AK4490EN×2



I know - but what about the oscillators? Any info?


----------



## User00

What is the output impedence of the balanced out?


----------



## peterzzz

User00 said:


> What is the output impedence of the balanced out?



Depends on the amp module, the default AM3A comes in at 1.7Ohm IIRC.


----------



## subtec

So does this support AptX Low Latency? Other products using the CSR8670 do.


----------



## kukkurovaca

It's too bad there isn't a balanced line out.


----------



## snellemin

kukkurovaca said:


> It's too bad there isn't a balanced line out.


Just make your own adapter.


----------



## kukkurovaca

snellemin said:


> Just make your own adapter.



An adapter isn't going to make a single ended line out provide a balanced signal


----------



## snellemin

kukkurovaca said:


> An adapter isn't going to make a single ended line out provide a balanced signal


You take the balanced out from the 2.5 mm TRRS and add a pair of XLR's.  It's not hard to do.


----------



## kukkurovaca

snellemin said:


> You take the balanced out from the 2.5 mm TRRS and add a pair of XLR's.  It's not hard to do.



Lol, I'm aware of the 2.5mm output on the amp module. I was saying it's too bad there's only a single-ended line out bypassing the amp module and not a balanced line out.


----------



## Schwibbles

Glad I just found this thread a few days ago. Would've been a real shame if I had to wait 2 years for the release.

I hope there will be a higher power, single-ended amp module that I can buy for it. I have no use for a balanced output from a portable DAC/amp.

Looks really beautiful though; love the design.


----------



## peterzzz

Schwibbles said:


> I hope there will be a higher power, single-ended amp module that I can buy for it. I have no use for a balanced output from a portable DAC/amp.



The AM5 might be what you're after.


----------



## tas236

peterzzz said:


> I should take delivery of a Centrance Bluedac soon, I'll let you know how well it drives my Alpha Dogs.



Please let us know!


----------



## Schwibbles

peterzzz said:


> The AM5 might be what you're after.


That looks perfect, thanks. But that would bring the price up to $450 which is iDSD BL pricing; or at least what I paid for mine. 
If I can order the Q5 with the AM5 directly, instead of separately, I'm definitely in when it finally hits the market.


----------



## peterzzz

tas236 said:


> Please let us know!


Right, so I have the DAC, but the 2.5mm jack required to make an XLR adapter to my balanced Alpha Dogs seems to be stuck in the postal system somewhere between Singapore and here.


----------



## AlwaysForward

I basically want this but with BT5, Apt-X-HD, & LDAC. First to market with a DAC/AMP which has comparable performance to Mojo when wired while allowing to transmit best Bluetooth gets my moneys.


----------



## chaiyuta

AlwaysForward said:


> I basically want this but with BT5, Apt-X-HD, & LDAC. First to market with a DAC/AMP which has comparable performance to Mojo when wired while allowing to transmit best Bluetooth gets my moneys.


You might have to wait Q5 Mark III.


----------



## fieryoOo

Is there any hint on the sound signature? I wonder if it's gonna be a good match for the IM04/K7XX?


----------



## chowmein83

Hi all, I’ve had the wonderful opportunity to listen to a prototype Q5 that Fiio lent me for quite a while now. Since they’ve now announced a release date, Fiio felt that it was ok for me to share my impressions.

Please excuse me if the rest of my impressions just sound like rambling and unorganized thoughts. I guess that's just me from being too excited about this product!

I’ve said that I’m listening to a prototype. However, I’ve confirmed with Fiio that the prototype basically has the final sound tuning, but some of the other features may have been unfinished. So I will mostly focus on sound quality, and not too much on the other aspects. I will also be comparing the Q5 to the X5iii and the X7ii since I have also had those for quite a while to play around with.

I listened to the Q5 with the AM3A and AM3 amp modules. Earphones I paired the Q5 with were the Etymotic ER4S and FLC Technology FLC8S. I also listened to the Q5 through its line out for quite while hooked up to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon.

So first, Fiio quotes a battery life of about 10 hours or so when used in DAC mode. That sounds about right based on my experience.

Secondly, while it is a prototype, the Q5 I have been listening to seems to work pretty seamlessly in Bluetooth mode. I haven’t really experienced any audio drops with it (except if I go extremely far from the source) and pairing is very quick and easy. It’s really great and convenient to listen to aptX quality music wirelessly.

Now, onto the main meat of my post – the sound.

People have been wondering what the sound signature of the Q5 is like. While the Q5 may use the same dual AK4490 set up as in the X5 3rd gen, the tuning is definitely very different. The X5iii is set up for a warmer sound, with mids and treble that are quite good considering the sound signature but perhaps doesn’t have the most refined, detailed mids and highs. At least not to the level of the Q5 and X7ii, which seem to have more detail while not really sounding any less smooth than the X5iii, even with their brighter signatures. The Q5 is much more neutral, more like the X7ii. In fact, at times the Q5 sounds possibly a bit brighter than the X7ii.

But, you may ask, isn’t that a bad thing? So this requires some explanation. To me, at least, at times the X7ii felt like it was trying to go more neutral but yet put a warm tint to the sound. It isn’t entirely successful at this for me, as sometimes I feel like the X7ii is being a bit “suffocated”, as if the DAC chip in the X7ii tends to be a bit brighter but Fiio is trying to muffle it a bit to sound more neutral, but not with always the best results. With the Q5, I get none of that. It feels that the DAC in the Q5 is allowed to sing and present the music as it really is. It’s as if the mids and highs are more “effortless” on the Q5 than the X7ii, in my opinion. So this sometimes results in the Q5 sounding brighter than the X7ii, but to me that’s probably more due to how the music was produced in the first place.

However, I would be hard-pressed to say that the Q5 has more detail than the X7ii. Both reveal an impressive amount of detail in the music.

As for soundstage, I found the X7ii to have impressive width, depth, and overall feeling of spaciousness. The Q5 is no less than the X7ii – I felt that the Q5 may have had a very slightly deeper soundstage, but I’m not even so sure about that.

Now finally, the bass – this is where I feel the Q5 actually has quite the edge over the X5iii and X7ii. To get it out of the way, the Q5 in my opinion has much better bass quality than the X5iii. Even when taking the different sound signatures into account, the X5iii’s bass sounds somewhat bloated and uncontrolled compared to the Q5, as well as being less textured and detailed. Also, the Q5 seems to extend deeper in the sub-bass and hits harder in that region. Surprisingly, at least for me the Q5’s bass seemed to be more pleasing that with the X7ii. In comparison to the Q5, the X7ii’s bass seemed to be a bit one-note, with less nuance and texture than with the Q5. The Q5 also seemed to have more, and more accurate sub-bass in general. This was the case no matter which low-pass filter I used on the X7ii.

As for being able to drive large, power-hungry headphones with the Q5 – it’ll do a pretty decent job if you use the AM3 or AM3A. But having listened to a much higher power, high-quality desktop amp with my larger headphones like the Hifiman HE-400i and my self-modded Fostex T50RP, it’s pretty obvious that the Q5, no matter which amp module you use, won’t be able to really squeeze every last drop of potential from those kinds of headphones.

I actually thought for the longest time that the Q5 would be released at $300, so I’m a bit disappointed with the $350 price now. However, even at this price, there’s no doubt in my mind that I would take this over any of Fiio’s other products if we are purely talking about sound quality. To me, it’s that good, and is the best-sounding product that Fiio’s made yet.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

"So this sometimes results in the Q5 sounding brighter than the X7ii" > not good for me 
Winter is coming! I like warm and natural! I bought the X5 III today for a very good price (for Europe). 340 EUR - BF deal.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

KopaneDePooj said:


> "So this sometimes results in the Q5 sounding brighter than the X7ii" > not good for me
> Winter is coming! I like warm and natural! I bought the X5 III today for a very good price (for Europe). 340 EUR - BF deal.



Wait for more opinions.
Listen yourself if you can.
Definitely wait for more opinions


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Wait for more opinions.
> Listen yourself if you can.
> Definitely wait for more opinions


I know, you're right, could be subjective.
But anyways, I just bought the X5 3rd gen  I had one for 3 days borrowed from a friend, and liked it very much.
And with this deal I couldn't wait for Q5 anymore


----------



## Dobrescu George

KopaneDePooj said:


> I know, you're right, could be subjective.
> But anyways, I just bought the X5 3rd gen  I had one for 3 days borrowed from a friend, and liked it very much.
> And with this deal I couldn't wait for Q5 anymore



I'd love for Q5 to be even brighter! 

As for X5-3, the deals were quite good! I'm glad you managed to get one! Surely, if you were looking for a warm / smooth DAP, it is a great one!


----------



## fieryoOo (Nov 17, 2017)

chowmein83 said:


> Hi all, I’ve had the wonderful opportunity to listen to a prototype Q5 that Fiio lent me for quite a while now. Since they’ve now announced a release date, Fiio felt that it was ok for me to share my impressions.
> 
> Please excuse me if the rest of my impressions just sound like rambling and unorganized thoughts. I guess that's just me from being too excited about this product!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed comparisons, exactly what I'm looking for!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Dobrescu George said:


> I'd love for Q5 to be even brighter!
> 
> As for X5-3, the deals were quite good! I'm glad you managed to get one! Surely, if you were looking for a warm / smooth DAP, it is a great one!


Yeah, thanks!
Bright / dark / cold / warm - it's all relative to everyone's hearing, expectation and preference. And it's always more that graphs and measurements can tell.
To me every frequency in X5 is well represented. Yes I'd call it smooth, but not dark or very warm. To my ear it is natural sounding and that's what l like.


----------



## pelli

chowmein83 said:


> Since they’ve now announced a release date,.



Did I miss a confirmed release date or is it still just expected Dec. this year?


----------



## chowmein83

KopaneDePooj said:


> Yeah, thanks!
> Bright / dark / cold / warm - it's all relative to everyone's hearing, expectation and preference. And it's always more that graphs and measurements can tell.
> To me every frequency in X5 is well represented. Yes I'd call it smooth, but not dark or very warm. To my ear it is natural sounding and that's what l like.



Yeah, if you really like the how the X5 3rd gen sounds you probably won't be as big of a fan of the Q5. 

But hey, with the X5 3rd gen you are getting an entire player rather than just a DAC/amp combo for basically the same money.


----------



## SethGG

chowmein83 said:


> Yeah, if you really like the how the X5 3rd gen sounds you probably won't be as big of a fan of the Q5.
> 
> But hey, with the X5 3rd gen you are getting an entire player rather than just a DAC/amp combo for basically the same money.


Did you test the balanced output of the Q5? I expect it to give the same improvements as the X7ii because they use the same amp modules.


----------



## chowmein83

SethGG said:


> Did you test the balanced output of the Q5? I expect it to give the same improvements as the X7ii because they use the same amp modules.



Yes, I actually did most of my listening with the FLC8S in balanced mode. I didn't listen to the Etymotic ER4S in balanced mode because I don't have a balanced cable for that. I also alluded to listening to the 400i and modded T50RP with the Q5 - that was done with a converter from 2.5mm balanced to 4-pin XLR.


----------



## IneffableMusic (Nov 20, 2017)

Glad to know the q5 is probably neutral even with the ak4490s! I was wondering if the q5 would be warm when they announced  it would have those chips, and was hoping they tuned them to be percieved flat personally. In that case I'm curious if the 2 ak4490eq's beats even an es9028pro like in the x7ii since they still tuned them to be flat but it wouldn't have sabre glare and stuff. This could make for a really good use of the 4490's. Like chowmein83 said on the previous page he thinks they tuned the brightness of the es9028 down on the x7ii and that it seems to force it and make it seem slightly congested, but that the q5 seems to play a tad better with the 4490's tuned as a similar flat response. Not that I think the x7ii would be congested, but perhaps the q5 will be a tad better.


----------



## peterzzz

peterzzz said:


> I should take delivery of a Centrance Bluedac soon, I'll let you know how well it drives my Alpha Dogs.



OK, got the BlueDAC and assembled a 2.5 TRRS to XLR4 adapter cable to connect my Alpha Dogs. It drives them no problem (60-70% in high gain). Sounds really good. And given the Aeon Flow phones are easier to drive than this older model you should not have any trouble driving them. Heck, for giggles I connected them (with a 2.5TRRS to 3.5TRS adapter) to my FiiO Q1 and even that drives them without issue -- although obviously at an entirely different quality 

In any case, BlueDAC is fairly OT here, I'll attempt to do a writeup later in a more appropriate thread.


----------



## IneffableMusic

Would the q5 ever stop working with newer ios/android versions? Also what about new versions of windows? Can they always just make software updates to update the driver to work with newer versions, or does there come a point where they can't? I'm curious about this cause if it can last longer than a dap software-wise that would be a reason to get the q5 instead of x7ii.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

elNan said:


> I thought "Infinity Sound" was all about Fiio embracing balanced audio, this is disappointing
> Could this be implemented through a new replaceable module?


It is implemented in ALL x7 modules, balanced line out is in 11-pin micro usb, that's how you get balanced line out via Fiio K5 dock


----------



## demond

IneffableMusic said:


> Would the q5 ever stop working with newer ios/android versions? Also what about new versions of windows? Can they always just make software updates to update the driver to work with newer versions, or does there come a point where they can't? I'm curious about this cause if it can last longer than a dap software-wise that would be a reason to get the q5 instead of x7ii.


Q5 can upgrade firmware through USB.


----------



## Sound Eq

is there a q5 mkii in the works now, if yes is there a thread for it


----------



## 435279

Sound Eq said:


> is there a q5 mkii in the works now, if yes is there a thread for it



Yes and I hear they are working on an X7iii too.


----------



## pelli

It sure would be awesome to get a concrete release date and some impressions before the hype train leaves the station on Q5 mkii haha


----------



## Jerda

I would prefer a good Q3 instead


----------



## OneL0ve

Are you ready to take my money yet Fiio?


----------



## OneL0ve

OneL0ve said:


> Can anyone tell me where they hid the "Search within this thread" feature?



I finally found it inside the search field above (top right).   Click inside the search field above and the "Search this thread only" option drops down.


----------



## demond

*Explanation on the Delay of the Q5 Market Release*

We are sorry to tell you that we have to postpone the market release date of the FiiO flagship Bluetooth DSD DAC & Amp Q5 until January 18th (if everything goes smoothly).

The delay is mainly caused by the Bluetooth compatibility. Please kindly check the detailed explanation / statement as follows:
*1. *Designed as the flagship model in our DAC & Amp product line, the Q5 is expected to have high sound quality with all input methods, including Bluetooth.
*2. *The Bluetooth IC also has an embedded DAC. In order to reduce its impact to the sound and achieve better sound quality, the Q5 is designed to bypass the Bluetooth embedded DAC while transmit the digital signal to XMOS platform directly and then to the professional DAC AK 4490. In this way, it's able to keep the data more complete and get better frequency response, THD+N, noise floor, crosstalk, etc, than other traditional Bluetooth audio devices.
What's more, the analog processing of the Bluetooth input is basically the same as that of the USB/Coaxial/Optical input, which further ensures consistent sound performance of different digital audio inputs.
However, owing to the difference of the underlying architecture and executive capability between the Bluetooth IC and XMOS, there might be problem during the data transit from the Bluetooth IC to the XMOS, which can result in no sound output when connecting to some new models of Smartphones. 
*3.* Good news is that we've finally solved the issue through joint efforts of FiiO and the responsible persons from CSR and XMOS, but the delay is inevitable.
BTW, the Q5's firmware can be upgraded on the user's side. It can be upgraded after connecting the Q5 to the PC via the USB port at the bottom of the Q5. So if there should any unknown bugs, they can fixed by firmware upgrade in the future. Also, the Bluetooth function can be upgraded independently when connected to PC via the side USB port of the Q5. And the Bluetooth version can be upgraded from Bluetooth 4.1 to 5.0 or above in the future.
Thank you for your kind understanding. Let's expect the good news to come!

*Best Regards,*
*Demond*


----------



## IneffableMusic

No worries, Demond. I completely understand it's a difficult process to make such an innovatove dac and I really appreciate the time Fiio has and is putting into it to make it a complete product from day one. Too many devices are shoved into our pockets for a bunch of money and have all kinds of issues that are unnacceptable. The Q5 will be an awesome high quality product from day one, and that's what we truly want.


----------



## slackerpo

demond said:


> *Explanation on the Delay of the Q5 Market Release*
> 
> We are sorry to tell you that we have to postpone the market release date of the FiiO flagship Bluetooth DSD DAC & Amp Q5 until January 18th (if everything goes smoothly).
> 
> ...



thanks for the detailed explanation. 

if you could further explain though, what would be the issue of not starting with bluetooth 4.2 instead of 4.1?, especially given the fact that the BTR1 has 4.2.


----------



## demond

slackerpo said:


> thanks for the detailed explanation.
> 
> if you could further explain though, what would be the issue of not starting with bluetooth 4.2 instead of 4.1?, especially given the fact that the BTR1 has 4.2.


BTR1 is a version of ROM, Q5 is a version of FLASH, and the software is a lot more complicated. The engineer will start from his most familiar version 4.1.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

demond said:


> BTR1 is a version of ROM, Q5 is a version of FLASH, and the software is a lot more complicated. The engineer will start from his most familiar version 4.1.


Is there any possibility to add *LDAC *(more important) and aptX HD?


----------



## demond

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Is there any possibility to add *LDAC *(more important) and aptX HD?


Unless the Bluetooth chip is changed to CSR8675. But it's very difficult and it takes a long time. Otherwise, it can't be supported.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

demond said:


> But it's very difficult and it takes a long time. Otherwise, it can't be supported.


It is very important for Hi-Fi wireless DAC and many people want it from Fiio as well as from Centrance, I guess this *must *be implemented at least in Q5mkII.
Android 8 already contains LDAC natively...


----------



## demond

fgfgfg0923 said:


> It is very important for Hi-Fi wireless DAC and many people want it from Fiio as well as from Centrance, I guess this *must *be implemented at least in Q5mkII.
> Android 8 already contains LDAC natively...


Q5 is a comprehensive performance decoder product, not a product with Bluetooth as the main selling point. If you are only using Bluetooth, you can pay attention to our new product, BTR3, and support LDAC\APTX HD. Will be listed in June 2018.


----------



## willywill

Ha some dealer are taking pre-order but Fiio been silent on the Q5 
http://kopfhoererboutique.com/product/fiio-q5


----------



## snellemin

willywill said:


> Ha some dealer are taking pre-order but Fiio been silent on the Q5
> http://kopfhoererboutique.com/product/fiio-q5


450 Euro!!!!  Way too much.


----------



## Dobrescu George

snellemin said:


> 450 Euro!!!!  Way too much.



Europe, so there3 is a 20% VAT in that price...


----------



## snellemin

Dobrescu George said:


> Europe, so there3 is a 20% VAT in that price...


Lets see what the US market price will be.


----------



## springbay

snellemin said:


> Lets see what the US market price will be.



Or rather look at the £329 pre order price at advancedmp3players.
By today's exchange rate that will be 370€.
But since advancedmp3players are having a 10% off on all FiiO gear until 24/12, the current pre order price would be £296 or 333€.


----------



## superbike999 (Jan 1, 2018)

The discount at AMP3 is now 15% on all products from 26th December 2017 until 5th January 2018, using discount code:-
Voucher code: BOXING15

I have just purchased the FiiO F9 Pro at the discounted price and the Quidco cashback (currently 4.5%) also tracked OK.

The F9 Pro was delivered yesterday.


----------



## demond

The Review Tour of FiiO Q5 Flagship Bluetooth and DSD-Capable DAC & Amplifier Starts Right Now!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...apable-dac-amplifier-starts-right-now.869076/


----------



## Niyologist

I'm buying this. Although my Axon 7 needs to be fixed first.


----------



## riccyn

I have a question about connecting the FiiO Q5 to a device like Samsung Note 8. I have just ordered the Q5 with a delivery in around 10 days so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## tim0chan

riccyn said:


> I have a question about connecting the FiiO Q5 to a device like Samsung Note 8. I have just ordered the Q5 with a delivery in around 10 days so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


And what question is that?


----------



## riccyn

Sorry, I guess I missed that. What are the ways I can connect my Q5 to my Note 8. Would it be Bluetooth or OTG cables.


----------



## willywill

riccyn said:


> I have a question about connecting the FiiO Q5 to a device like Samsung Note 8. I have just ordered the Q5 with a delivery in around 10 days so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


We still don't know what is included in the box but your phone uses a Type C, if it's not in box no problem cables are cheap. Don't buy yet until you get it but it will look like this


----------



## willywill

riccyn said:


> Sorry, I guess I missed that. What are the ways I can connect my Q5 to my Note 8. Would it be Bluetooth or OTG cables.


You will need a Micro USB to USB Type C around 8cm.


----------



## riccyn

willywill said:


> You will need a Micro USB to USB Type C around 8cm.



Are there good cables (OTG) in the market. One that does not drain battery from one another. Would prefer one that is not generic if possible.


----------



## willywill

riccyn said:


> Are there good cables (OTG) in the market. One that does not drain battery from one another. Would prefer one that is not generic if possible.


A $3 cable and a $45 is the same thing, i would put my money on a 2.5mm balanced cable for the headphone you will like to use with the Q5. If you don't have 2.5mm balanced cable


----------



## riccyn

willywill said:


> A $3 cable and a $45 is the same thing, i would put my money on a 2.5mm balanced cable for the headphone you will like to use with the Q5. If you don't have 2.5mm balanced cable


The RHA T20 and V Moda Crossfade I normally use do not have balanced input. But I am also getting the FH1, which does.


----------



## willywill

riccyn said:


> The RHA T20 and V Moda Crossfade I normally use do not have balanced input. But I am also getting the FH1, which does.


Ok if you get the Fiio FH1 the 2.5mm cable will be inculcated in the box


----------



## riccyn

willywill said:


> Ok if you get the Fiio FH1 the 2.5mm cable will be inculcated in the box


Yes, that I understand. My question is to connect Q5 to Note8. If there aren't any micro USB C type what else could I get. Also, will using AptX Bluetooth be an option, since the Note 8 is already compliant.


----------



## tim0chan

riccyn said:


> Yes, that I understand. My question is to connect Q5 to Note8. If there aren't any micro USB C type what else could I get. Also, will using AptX Bluetooth be an option, since the Note 8 is already compliant.


Maybe the use of punctuation will make you clearer.
Do you mean:
How do I connect the note 8 to the Q5 without using the usb c to mini cable?
Or
 How do I connect the Q5 to the note 8 in general?


----------



## riccyn

tim0chan said:


> Maybe the use of punctuation will make you clearer.
> Do you mean:
> How do I connect the note 8 to the Q5 without using the usb c to mini cable?
> Or
> How do I connect the Q5 to the note 8 in general?



Let's go with your second option. How do I connect the Q5 to the Note 8 in general. Thank you.


----------



## tim0chan

riccyn said:


> Let's go with your second option. How do I connect the Q5 to the Note 8 in general. Thank you.


Usb c to mini usb other cable
Usb c to coaxial cable
3.5mm to 3.5mm se aux cable
Bluetooth


----------



## 397324

Hi

I have an X7ii with the standard AM3A amp. Does the Q5 come with an amp module fitted and with my AM3A fitted to the Q5, what improvements could I look forward to?

Regards

Darren


----------



## tim0chan

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi
> 
> I have an X7ii with the standard AM3A amp. Does the Q5 come with an amp module fitted and with my AM3A fitted to the Q5, what improvements could I look forward to?
> 
> ...


Q5 comes with am3a


----------



## 397324 (Jan 18, 2018)

Thanks for the answer, but that's ridiculous. Why are they doing this again? It's like the initial release of the original X7 all over again, where you were forced to have the rubbish AM1 amp.

If I could buy the Q5 without an amp and just buy an AM0 and transfer my X7ii's AM3A amp across, it would save me money. The AM3A is a great amp, but I don't want or need two!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the answer, but that's ridiculous. Why are they doing this again? It's like the initial release of the original X7 all over again, where you were forced to have the rubbish AM1 amp.
> 
> If I could buy the Q5 without an amp and just buy an AM1 and transfer my X7ii's AM3A amp across, it would save me money. The AM3A is a great amp, but I don't want or need two!



You're not supposed to keep swapping it around, the AMP modules are not 3.5mm jacks, it is good that Q5 comes with AM03A, it ensures that it will be best for most people, most people getting it do not have X7mkii, so FiiO are ensuring the best experience for the most. 

Think about it this way, I am not sure if I'd stack X7mkii with Q5, like ever, since Q5 has the same amo modules, and stacking would mean a thicker thing to carry, along with other discomforts, but I would totally stack my tablet, my smartphone, and even an entry-level DAP with Q5, making the inclusion of an AMP module excellent for me. 

Think about it this way, if you have X7mkii, you most probably will not see a bump in sound quality by adding Q5, X7mkii is still the flagship from FiiO, it is in the same category as all the other ultra high end DAPs. 

Q5 is not only not intended to be stacked with X7mkii due to size and concept, but X7mkii costs double the price just so you don't have to stack, you're intentionally going against the design of X7mkii if you plan to add Q5 to it. 

I wouldn't bother adding any DAC / AMP to X7mkii unless it is something ultra high-end, just because X7mkii is already so amazing. 

I really would love Q5 for something like when I watch and listen to music using my tablet, or for when I really need to use a more entry-level option and have it stacked.


----------



## 397324 (Jan 22, 2018)

Your point is a good one and their decision to use the AM3A is also the best option if they have to include one.

I just think they should make the Q5 available without the bundled amp, as you could and still can do with the original X7.


----------



## FiiO

FiiO Q5, the mightiest Bluetooth/DSD DAC&Amp ever, available now： https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...etooth-dsd-dac-amp-ever-available-now.870185/

You may try the New Version v1.3.2 of FiiO Music iOS App to control FiiO Q5 via Bluetooth:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...f-fiio-music-ios-app-is-now-available.870184/


----------



## tim0chan

FiiO said:


> FiiO Q5, the mightiest Bluetooth/DSD DAC&Amp ever, available now： https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...etooth-dsd-dac-amp-ever-available-now.870185/
> 
> You may try the New Version v1.3.2 of FiiO Music iOS App to control FiiO Q5 via Bluetooth:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...f-fiio-music-ios-app-is-now-available.870184/


What abt android?


----------



## Tysun (Jan 19, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> What abt android?


I remember Fiio has stated that, I do not recall the exact sentences, but the main point being below:

Due to large fragmentation of Android devices having different versions of Android as well as different OEM implementations, also older devices having Micro-USB port and newer devices having USB-C port, it is difficult to have official support for Android.

Q5/Q1mk I/Q1 mkII supports most Android devices but it has often occurred that after software updates, devices which previously supports OTG DAC no longer supports. The opposite may also happen: Devices which previously did not support OTG DAC may suddenly support it after updates. Some Android devices with USB-C may drain the phone's battery to charge the DAC when they are connected, some won't.

Due to such fragmentation, support for Android OTG is a little bit of hit-or-miss scenario and because of this Fiio does not advertise their DACs to support Android while they actually DO support, in most cases.

The scenario is different for Apple iOS because the fragmentation is not there and with proper Apple MFi certification they can easily advertise official iOS support without any worries.

I personally have used my Nexus 6P and OnePlus 5 with Fiio Q1 mkI connected with aftermarket USB-C to Micro OTG cable with no issues. Can't speak of Q5 though.

Hope this helps.

Hamster


----------



## Tysun

Double post


----------



## superuser1

For people who are buying directly from Fiio it would be a good idea to have amp options available while adding the Q5 to the cart. I am looking at the new AM3B? amp with a 4.4mm balanced out.


----------



## bflat

I'll give this a try. Just ordered the pre-release from Aliexpress. Definitely looks to be a very useful DAC/Amp with good specs.


----------



## springbay

What's up with the goat mascot for early buyers? I placed an order yesterday, and today I found out that I'm a dog and 2018 is the year of the dog, so it seems I'll have bad fortune this year.
And then I found out that dogs and goats have the worst compatibility. I hope that goat mascot is not trying to tell me something.
Please FiiO, can you send me a cute rabbit instead?


----------



## bflat

springbay said:


> What's up with the goat mascot for early buyers? I placed an order yesterday, and today I found out that I'm a dog and 2018 is the year of the dog, so it seems I'll have bad fortune this year.
> And then I found out that dogs and goats have the worst compatibility. I hope that goat mascot is not trying to tell me something.
> Please FiiO, can you send me a cute rabbit instead?



It's meant to say that the Q5 is destined to be the G.O.A.T. DAC!

BTW, I was order 21 and now I see the orders are up to 26.


----------



## ClassicGOD

bflat said:


> It's meant to say that the Q5 is destined to be the G.O.A.T. DAC!
> 
> BTW, I was order 21 and now I see the orders are up to 26.


Have no idea what order # I was but I ordered on the 19th and my order just shipped. 

The only reason I ordered so early is the plush goat so I hope it will be amazing


----------



## FiiO

springbay said:


> What's up with the goat mascot for early buyers? I placed an order yesterday, and today I found out that I'm a dog and 2018 is the year of the dog, so it seems I'll have bad fortune this year.
> And then I found out that dogs and goats have the worst compatibility. I hope that goat mascot is not trying to tell me something.
> Please FiiO, can you send me a cute rabbit instead?



Dear friend,

The lovely FiiO goat mascot is our present for this very batch. The goat is also the mascot for the city we are located in. 

Best regards


----------



## davidmolliere (Jan 23, 2018)

Subbed and ordered 



Dobrescu George said:


> I really would love Q5 for something like when I watch and listen to music using my tablet, or for when I really need to use a more entry-level option and have it stacked.



+1 that's why I got it on top of my DX200, plus as a way to watch movies with BT from Apple TV with the LCD i4 I confess


----------



## tim0chan

My demo set is coming in 3 days time, will have an unboxing video and first impressions. Am very excited


----------



## riccyn

Will you be using an Android or iOS device to pair the Q5?


----------



## springbay

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The lovely FiiO goat mascot is our present for this very batch. The goat is also the mascot for the city we are located in.
> 
> Best regards



Ok, nice.
In hindsight it seems the year of the Rooster was the crappy year in my family. All the males are/were dogs and last summer my brother died in a heart attack, and this morning my father got a stroke. Man do I feel jinxed after looking into the Chinese zodiacs yesterday.
My general health is poor as well, but it's safe to say that I'm the most healthy one now. I'll make sure to wear plenty of red stuff from now on.


----------



## tim0chan

riccyn said:


> Will you be using an Android or iOS device to pair the Q5?


Android lg g6+.
Also can borrow my friend's iOS devices


----------



## Tysun

Very eager to know how is Q5 compared to Oppo HA2SE!


----------



## tim0chan

Tysun said:


> Very eager to know how is Q5 compared to Oppo HA2SE!


can compare to my ha2


----------



## riccyn

tim0chan said:


> Android lg g6+.
> Also can borrow my friend's iOS devices



Ok cool. I would very much like to see your video demonstrating the Q5 hooked up to an Android device. Sadly, I still don't know when my Q5 will arrive as I have preordered it from a local disti.


----------



## Tysun

tim0chan said:


> can compare to my ha2


Please post your impressions regarding Q5 vs HA if you don't mind =)


----------



## tim0chan

Tysun said:


> Please post your impressions regarding Q5 vs HA if you don't mind =)


Also, if u happen to be in sg, u can pm me and I can try to let u try


----------



## OneL0ve

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the answer, but that's ridiculous. Why are they doing this again? It's like the initial release of the original X7 all over again, where you were forced to have the rubbish AM1 amp.
> 
> If I could buy the Q5 without an amp and just buy an AM0 and transfer my X7ii's AM3A amp across, it would save me money. The AM3A is a great amp, but I don't want or need two!



I know a great site where you could easily sell your extra AMP module.


----------



## OneL0ve

ClassicGOD said:


> Have no idea what order # I was but I ordered on the 19th and my order just shipped.
> 
> The only reason I ordered so early is the plush goat so I hope it will be amazing



Thanks for telling me about the goat. I stupidly ordered the LC-Q5 leather case and didn't notice it was already included FREE.


----------



## 397324 (Jan 26, 2018)

OneL0ve said:


> I know a great site where you could easily sell your extra AMP module.



Why should I buy something new, knowing I have to sell part of it for secondhand prices. I have an X7ii and if I could get a Q5 without an amp, I could use my AM3A on the Q5 and get an AM5 for the Q5.

FiiO had admitted on their own forum that both the Q1ii and Q5 isn't guaranteed to work on the 80% of smartphones out there that use the Android operating system via the USB input, but presumably, the Q5 will work with anything using the Optical and COAX input?


----------



## tim0chan

Darren Cotter said:


> Why should I buy something new, knowing I have to sell part of it for secondhand prices. Anyway, until someone gets it to work with an Android phone, something FiiO admits isn't guaranteed on their own forum, with both the Q5 and the Q1ii, I'm not even considering it.
> 
> I Googled it, and the result I got was that over 80% of smartphones are Android and only 17% are IOS. The rest are Blackberry ETC.


I got my android phones to work with the q1mk2 am getting the q5 later


----------



## ClassicGOD

Darren Cotter said:


> FiiO had admitted on their own forum that both the Q1ii and Q5 isn't guaranteed to work on the 80% of smartphones out there that use the Android operating system via the USB input, but presumably, the Q5 will work with anything using the Optical and COAX input?


FiiO Q5 is a standard USB audio device. The reason FiiO can't guarantee it working on all Android devices is simply because not all Android devices support OTG and USB Audio. The phone manufacturer is at fault here, not FiiO. It's compatible with all iOS devices because iOS supports USB Audio as a standard.


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the answer. I presume the coax and optical inputs would work with anything?


----------



## ClassicGOD

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the answer. I presume the coax and optical inputs would work with anything?


Should with every stereo signal - I don't think Q5 will decode 5.1.


----------



## willywill

If your in the US, head to your local Best Buy and get the Moto E4 Plus for $70
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/boost-...-cell-phone-iron-gray/6055700.p?skuId=6055700


----------



## OneL0ve

Darren Cotter said:


> FiiO had admitted on their own forum that both the Q1ii and Q5 isn't guaranteed to work on the 80% of smartphones out there that use the Android operating system via the USB input



Wait, WAH??   I guess I will need to run some tests using my various Android devices.  (This sounds more like an Apple stipulation)


----------



## OneL0ve

willywill said:


> If your in the US, head to your local Best Buy and get the Moto E4 Plus for $70
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/boost-...-cell-phone-iron-gray/6055700.p?skuId=6055700



FOR WHY?


----------



## ClassicGOD

I got my Q5 tooday at work and already have some comments/questions

- Included goat was too cute - I work in office that is mostly female and my goat was confiscated immediately. Now I have no goat 
- Is it possible to pair multiple BT devices? I had problem switching between devices but I only did limited testing.
- When plugged into K5 my Q5 is always in USB mode - even if no USB cable is connected to the K5 making it impossible to use S/PDIF or Coax when docked. I hope this can be fixed via firmware.


----------



## Tysun

For those who are going to connect Android to Q5 via USB-C port: Please get this USB OTG cable to avoid your phone reverse-charging the Q5. This may drain your phone's battery really quickly. I recommend this cable because USB C is not standardized across all manufacturers and your device may or may not reverse-charge the Q5 if you connect with a random USB C to Micro OTG cable.

AFAIK, USB C to Micro OTG cable is not included in the factory package of Q5 and it is offered as an option. Whether or not it will discharge your Android device this I am not sure.

eBay link for a USB C OTG cable verified not going to discharge your Android:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/292052970340

Hamster


----------



## willywill

OneL0ve said:


> FOR WHY?


A cheap phone to stack with the Q5


----------



## bflat

willywill said:


> A cheap phone to stack with the Q5



I think the intent of most folks is to stack with their current phones. If they have to buy a new phone to stack with the Q5, then might as well just by a DAP instead.


----------



## Sonic Defender

bflat said:


> I think the intent of most folks is to stack with their current phones. If they have to buy a new phone to stack with the Q5, then might as well just by a DAP instead.


I'm guessing the OP was thinking that some people won't want to use a device that takes incoming calls with the Q5 so just having a dedicated source. Still, at that point yes a DAP might be worth considering depending on the needs of the user.


----------



## springbay

Sonic Defender said:


> I'm guessing the OP was thinking that some people won't want to use a device that takes incoming calls with the Q5 so just having a dedicated source. Still, at that point yes a DAP might be worth considering depending on the needs of the user.



The Q5 is a rather bulky and heavy piece. Not something I'll be running around with. The Q1II is more suitable for on the go.
Mine will sit most of the time in a K5 hooked up to my HTPC for late night listening.
Recently I upgraded to a 65" Sony 4K OLED. Today when I switched my X3ii to the Q5 as a DAC for the K5 I felt that my headphone sound got upgraded to 4K as well.

I instantly fell in love with the Q5, but it will not replace my Q1II for portable use.


----------



## FiiO

ClassicGOD said:


> I got my Q5 tooday at work and already have some comments/questions
> 
> - Included goat was too cute - I work in office that is mostly female and my goat was confiscated immediately. Now I have no goat
> - Is it possible to pair multiple BT devices? I had problem switching between devices but I only did limited testing.
> - When plugged into K5 my Q5 is always in USB mode - even if no USB cable is connected to the K5 making it impossible to use S/PDIF or Coax when docked. I hope this can be fixed via firmware.


Dear friend,

Haha, lovely ladies.

The Q5 can't collect to two Bluetooth device at the same time. As for How to connect or disconnect the Q5 to other Bluetooth devices, you may read: http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=43031&extra=

When docking in the K5, only USB DAC/Bluetooth input is enabled which is designed to act like that.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

springbay said:


> The Q5 is a rather bulky and heavy piece. Not something I'll be running around with. The Q1II is more suitable for on the go.
> Mine will sit most of the time in a K5 hooked up to my HTPC for late night listening.
> Recently I upgraded to a 65" Sony 4K OLED. Today when I switched my X3ii to the Q5 as a DAC for the K5 I felt that my headphone sound got upgraded to 4K as well.
> 
> I instantly fell in love with the Q5, but it will not replace my Q1II for portable use.


Glad to hear that the DAC is as stellar as expected. I'll have a chance soon enough to test the Q5 as a portable. Now another use of the word portable commonly bantered about here more accurately means easily transportable and clearly the Q5 is eminently transportable which is more how I would use it. I like being able to plop myself on my couch and stream from my phone, that for me is how I will use the Q5 as portable. I'll also be taking it to school and my girlfriends while testing.


----------



## bflat

wow DHL delivery at 8:30PM LOL.

Testing out the Q5 right now using the best equipment I have. I have coax from my SU-1 for source, iFi iPower for charging, and my Laylas with 2.5mm balanced. Fresh out of the box and 10 min of listening, my Laylas sound good. That itself is pretty amazing since I've found Laylas very hard to pair. The only thing that is a negative is I hear a little mid bass hump making the low end a little loose. I reserve final judgement after some burn in. Sound stage is ok, smaller than what the Laylas are capable of but nicely balanced between depth and width.

Build quality is excellent and would give AK a run for they money. Volume knob is a little stiff but rather have that than loose. So far so good. So many more things to test with how versatile the Q5.

Good job Fiio!


----------



## ClassicGOD (Jan 27, 2018)

FiiO said:


> When docking in the K5, only USB DAC/Bluetooth input is enabled which is designed to act like that.


I'm also having issues when using optical in on it's own - I get cutoffs and pops even on a 50cm optical cable, I tried few different cables and adapters and can't get clean sound over optical from the Q5 no matter what I try. In other words - it's unusable. Fiio D03K on the same cables, the same source (Samsung TV) has no issues.

[EDIT]Just to add - Coax In works fine - tested with X7

Does anyone here have similar issue with optical in?


----------



## erich6

What is the Q5's line output voltage?


----------



## tim0chan

I got the Q5 today, right out of the box it sounds natural neutral. Using now with he400i. Drives them easily and has the perfect match in terms of sound signature.


----------



## bflat (Jan 27, 2018)

ClassicGOD said:


> Does anyone here have similar issue with optical in?



All possible connections work for me:

Coax - check (From my SU-1)
Optical - check (From my PC motherboard)
Bluetooth Apt-X - check (From my Samsung Tab S2 8)
Bluetooth AAC - check (From my iPhone X)
Android 6.0 OTG - check* (From my Samsung Tab S2 8)
iOS 11.2.5 - check**
Line in - check (From my Holo DAC)

*Q5 battery starts charging. I assume it doesn't suck battery from the device if the charging port is used.
**Q5 only works when charging port is used if connected via Apple CCK. Using the included Fiio Lightning cable has no issues.

Seems to me we need a firmware update on the charging issue for 2 reasons:

Android - don't want to drain phone/tablet battery. However others have mentioned specific OTG cables that may be a good work around.
iOS - using the newer CCK 3.0 would allow the phone/tablet to charge while connected.
Now on the cool side of things the iOS app is nice as it allows changing DAC filters. Here is a good guide of what those options mean. This is from the AKM engineers descriptions specific to the AKM4490.






Overall I got to hand it to Fiio. For a 1st launch this is pretty solid with just a couple minor issues. Only wish list I have is WIFI and DLNA support for lossless streaming but that's bad for battery life. I think the Aptx feature may be good enough.


----------



## bflat

erich6 said:


> What is the Q5's line output voltage?



From just comparing volume output with my other sources I would say 2V.


----------



## erich6

bflat said:


> From just comparing volume output with my other sources I would say 2V.



Thanks!


----------



## Youghin

newbie here, when iPhone is connected to Q5, Q5 will act as an amplifier, is that correct? the DAC only activates when it is connected to USB. OR when iPhone is connected to Q5, the signal will run through the DAC and Amplifier?


----------



## Mordr3d

Hey , Was wondering how the FiiO Q5 compares to something like the X7 II seeing as both are advertised as flaghships in their respective segments . Any reviewers who own both ?


----------



## superuser1

Youghin said:


> newbie here, when iPhone is connected to Q5, Q5 will act as an amplifier, is that correct? the DAC only activates when it is connected to USB. OR when iPhone is connected to Q5, the signal will run through the DAC and Amplifier?


As you would be connecting the newer generation iPhones to the Q5 with the CCK it would use the DAC as well as the amp of the Q5.


----------



## tim0chan

Mordr3d said:


> Hey , Was wondering how the FiiO Q5 compares to something like the X7 II seeing as both are advertised as flaghships in their respective segments . Any reviewers who own both ?


I have access to it but can only give a short impressions bcos the unit is from a dealer


----------



## Mordr3d

That would be nice , keep me posted


----------



## tauceti

bflat said:


> All possible connections work for me:
> 
> Coax - check (From my SU-1)
> Optical - check (From my PC motherboard)
> ...


Did you notice any differences between the filters? I don't.


----------



## bflat (Jan 30, 2018)

tauceti said:


> Did you notice any differences between the filters? I don't.



It's subtle and need headphones that extend well. "Short Delay" adds a little bite to the top end. "Sharp roll off" adds a little punch to the bass. If you are trying the filters on the fly, there is a good 5-10 sec delay before the new filter kicks in.

Note for AK owners and AK balanced compatible amp owners - the balanced headphone output makes a fine balanced line out. Set to low gain and volume at 100% and you are good to go. You may also need to connect the grounds from the 3.5mm ports too if you get ground noise. This is how I am configuring my use of the Q5 connected to my ALO CDM with my SU-1 coax as source. My use case is a little different. I got tired of plugging my SP1000 in and out with my CDM so now the Q5 is going to be permanently attached to the CDM and I get all the cool ways I can connect sources. My SP1000 is now free to be what it does best - stand alone DAP.

Exactly what I was hoping to do!


----------



## tauceti (Jan 28, 2018)

ah ok great to know that I have to wait a couple of seconds. Will try again. Thanks!


----------



## bflat

Few more practical tips:

DSD via DoP only works for USB input.
In order to play and charge, you need a charger capable of 2A or more. I tried 1A and the Q5 could not charge faster than consuming.
Flashing color bar means charging, not flashing means at full battery.
Once you set filters and other options in the iOS app, the settings save on the Q5 even after disconnecting.
Q5 will auto shut down if nothing is being sent to it for a period of time defined. Default is 10 min. I extended to the max 30 min.
Volume control works like analog - has a max and min stopping point and stays where you left it even after power off.
For bluetooth connection, you want to go to 100% volume on the source end. The volume control on the Q5 is then where you fine tune volume.
Bluetooth will always try to connect to the last source used. You have to manually disconnect or shut off BT from your source to connect to a different source.
You cannot use bluetooth at the same time as any other input.
For IEMs you will hear some background hiss. How much depends on how sensitive your IEMs are.
Other than the charging issues noted for iOS and Android I haven't come across any other problems.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

How do you think it compares to the Q1 in terms of DAC quality with easy-to-drive headphones? will is be a nice paring for a Beyer T5p 2nd for both home and mobile use?


----------



## OneL0ve (Jan 29, 2018)

Tysun said:


> For those who are going to connect Android to Q5 via USB-C port: Please get this USB OTG cable to avoid your phone reverse-charging the Q5. This may drain your phone's battery really quickly. I recommend this cable because USB C is not standardized across all manufacturers and your device may or may not reverse-charge the Q5 if you connect with a random USB C to Micro OTG cable.
> 
> AFAIK, USB C to Micro OTG cable is not included in the factory package of Q5 and it is offered as an option. Whether or not it will discharge your Android device this I am not sure.
> 
> ...



So this looks like the same issue I had with my Oppo and DP-X1A.

This 8 inch StarTech micro OTG cable (UUUSBOTG8IN) is bi-directional (any end can work as host) and won't drain your battery. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018M8YEX0


----------



## bflat

Practical advice - if your music is AAC/MP3 or you stream Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, etc. no need for any OTG or lightning cable. Just use AptX bluetooth or AAC bluetooth (iOS). Since Q5 BT implementation bypasses the BT DAC and goes directly to the dual AKM4490, the quality is just as good as a physical USB connection. If you use Tidal or have mostly lossless files (FLAC, ALAC, AIFF, WAV, etc.) then you may get marginally better sound using USB. However, USB itself introduces it's own limitations so the tradeoff may not be worth. Personally I will be using BT exclusively when I am on the go. At home I will use coax input.


----------



## tim0chan

ColinMacLaren said:


> How do you think it compares to the Q1 in terms of DAC quality with easy-to-drive headphones? will is be a nice paring for a Beyer T5p 2nd for both home and mobile use?


Much better than the q1, loads more detail given good files


----------



## OneL0ve

Just got back from DHL.  Its here!! Baaaah!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Looks quite lovely! 

I can't wait for my Q5 to arrive as well!


----------



## riccyn

bflat said:


> Practical advice - if your music is AAC/MP3 or you stream Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, etc. no need for any OTG or lightning cable. Just use AptX bluetooth or AAC bluetooth (iOS). Since Q5 BT implementation bypasses the BT DAC and goes directly to the dual AKM4490, the quality is just as good as a physical USB connection. If you use Tidal or have mostly lossless files (FLAC, ALAC, AIFF, WAV, etc.) then you may get marginally better sound using USB. However, USB itself introduces it's own limitations so the tradeoff may not be worth. Personally I will be using BT exclusively when I am on the go. At home I will use coax input.



Hi, thanks for your input. I have a noobish question for ya. How do I connect a coax input to the Q5 from an Android smartphone, which has a C type USB and Headphone jack? If I can't seem to do that, would that mean a USB would be the best option?


----------



## bflat

riccyn said:


> Hi, thanks for your input. I have a noobish question for ya. How do I connect a coax input to the Q5 from an Android smartphone, which has a C type USB and Headphone jack? If I can't seem to do that, would that mean a USB would be the best option?



Unfortunately no. Coax output only comes from DDC devices (Digital to Digital Converter) that take USB input and creates coax, optical and i2S. From a smartphone the only wired digital interface is the USB port. However as I mentioned earlier, I think you will find that AptX is more than sufficient for CD quality and wireless is hard to beat for convenience. If you want to try USB, make sure your read back and get the right Android OTG cable so that Q5 doesn't suck the battery.


----------



## riccyn

Thanks. I would rather use Bluetooth as you mentioned for the convenience. I have a X7 DAP for when I want to listen to HI RES. The phone is for Tidal HIFI (CD Quality) when I am on the road as I have my music on offline mode. How is the Bass Boost function? I have a A3 Amp and I really like it to be quite honest.


----------



## OneL0ve (Jan 29, 2018)

Anyone got the PDF user manual for the Q5? The user manual link on the Q5 page is for the Q1MKII, not Q5.

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/83

EDIT: NVM, I found it. 

http://user-guide.fiio.net/Q5_User_Manual.pdf


----------



## Dobrescu George

OneL0ve said:


> Anyone got the PDF user manual for the Q5? The user manual link on the Q5 page is for the Q1MKII, not Q5.
> 
> http://www.fiio.net/en/products/83
> 
> ...



Glad you found it!


----------



## bflat (Jan 29, 2018)

riccyn said:


> Thanks. I would rather use Bluetooth as you mentioned for the convenience. I have a X7 DAP for when I want to listen to HI RES. The phone is for Tidal HIFI (CD Quality) when I am on the road as I have my music on offline mode. How is the Bass Boost function? I have a A3 Amp and I really like it to be quite honest.



Bass boost sounds like a +9-12 dB around 60 Hz so very obvious and too much for my personal tastes but I'm more of a neutral preference.

Here is another benefit of BT. You will know when you get a notification or phone call from your phone.

Here is my transportable rig that can literally connect to any source:

 

The second copper cable is a ground only DIY cable I made to eliminate ground noise.


----------



## talan7

bflat said:


> Bass boost sounds like a +9-12 dB around 60 Hz so very obvious and too much for my personal tastes but I'm more of a neutral preference.
> 
> Here is another benefit of BT. You will know when you get a notification or phone call from your phone.
> 
> ...



Regarding bass boost, where are you getting 9-12 dB at 60 hz? Is there documentation regarding the bass boost quantity and where it’s centered?


----------



## bflat

talan7 said:


> Regarding bass boost, where are you getting 9-12 dB at 60 hz? Is there documentation regarding the bass boost quantity and where it’s centered?



Played around with software EQ to approximate by ear.


----------



## bflat (Jan 29, 2018)

Accessories for those Q5 owners with OCD like me:

Low noise 5V power supply - https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/ costs $50 and available with US and Int'l plugs. Plenty of juice to support charge and play. Mine has been running not stop for 2 days and color bar is solid.
USB to Coax DDC - http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr costs $180
USB to Coax DDC portable version powered by USB - https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-f1-digital-interface-board/ also about $180 but need to get the aluminum enclosure for another $35.
Both are useful audio gadgets to have around for future upgrades. Check out Headfi classified too. Can't promise that you will hear any difference, but these may give that last percent or 2 of peak performance. YMMV

Oh, can't stand the side charging port making your cable stick out? Get a set of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S4XJ9WA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Peace


----------



## ColinMacLaren

I just ordered mine. The Bluetooth functionality would come in very handy.

How is the heapdhone amp? Would this thing be able to drive a  T1 2nd?


----------



## Charente

bflat said:


> USB to Coax DDC portable version powered by USB - https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-f1-digital-interface-board/ also about $180 but need to get the aluminum enclosure for another $35
> Peace



For European OCD'ers, Audiophonics France do a fully encased version of the F1 DDC for €199 ...
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appa...usb-spdif-asynchronous-interface-p-11412.html 

I might be persuaded to sell mine !


----------



## FiiO

Mordr3d said:


> Hey , Was wondering how the FiiO Q5 compares to something like the X7 II seeing as both are advertised as flaghships in their respective segments . Any reviewers who own both ?


Dear friend,

You may have a try in the local store as well.  If you collect the Q5 to the X7MKII, the power may not have big improve. But the sound quanlity would have a bit difference.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

erich6 said:


> What is the Q5's line output voltage?


Dear friend,

1.8Vrms.

Best regards


----------



## ColinMacLaren

How do you think it compares to a Sound blaster X7 as a stationary USB/SPDIF/Bluetooth DAC/Amp combo for PC and console use?


----------



## ClassicGOD

bflat said:


> Optical - check (From my PC motherboard)


What frequencies did you check? I just did some further testing and 44.1kHz is fine but 48kHz occasionally pops (every few sec) and 96kHz brakes up all the time, 192 doesn't work at all.


----------



## bflat

ColinMacLaren said:


> How do you think it compares to a Sound blaster X7 as a stationary USB/SPDIF/Bluetooth DAC/Amp combo for PC and console use?





ClassicGOD said:


> What frequencies did you check? I just did some further testing and 44.1kHz is fine but 48kHz occasionally pops (every few sec) and 96kHz brakes up all the time, 192 doesn't work at all.



48 kHz since that the max my PC will do. Only listened for a few minutes though. I will look for a higher res optical source and report back with a more thorough listening. Coax works flawlessly to the max 192/24 bit rate.


----------



## ClassicGOD

bflat said:


> 48 kHz since that the max my PC will do. Only listened for a few minutes though. I will look for a higher res optical source and report back with a more thorough listening. Coax works flawlessly to the max 192/24 bit rate.


Yeap, COAX is flawless on mine also. Tested all I got including some DSD tracks using D2P from X7. Ordered a $8 Optical to Coax converter but it will be a month until it get's here.


----------



## bflat

ClassicGOD said:


> Yeap, COAX is flawless on mine also. Tested all I got including some DSD tracks using D2P from X7. Ordered a $8 Optical to Coax converter but it will be a month until it get's here.



Well this sucks - I find out today that my latest model MacBook Pro 15 no longer has optical out! Sneaky omission by Apple. Guess no optical testing for Q5 then.


----------



## ClassicGOD

bflat said:


> Well this sucks - I find out today that my latest model MacBook Pro 15 no longer has optical out! Sneaky omission by Apple. Guess no optical testing for Q5 then.


Thanks for taking your time to check.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bflat said:


> Well this sucks - I find out today that my latest model MacBook Pro 15 no longer has optical out! Sneaky omission by Apple. Guess no optical testing for Q5 then.



Woah... I don't have a Mac, but I feel sorry for this.


----------



## OneL0ve (Jan 30, 2018)

Anyone getting an annoying pop or distortion switching from/to 48khz/96khz songs and back? 

44.1khz to 44.1khz OK
44.1khz to 48khz BAD
44.1khz to 96khz BAD
I am using my DP-X1A with the Q5.
*
DSP Function* On/Off makes no difference.
*Upsampling* On/Off makes no difference.

*Realtime DSD Conversion* ON (DSD light green on Q5) = no more pop or distortion when switching.

I also tested using the DP-X1A with Oppo HA-2 and there was* NO* pop or distortion when I switched songs. (same settings on the DP-X1A)


----------



## OneL0ve

ClassicGOD said:


> What frequencies did you check? I just did some further testing and 44.1kHz is fine but 48kHz occasionally pops and 96kHz.



Same here.


----------



## OneL0ve

Should the Q5 Previous/Next track and Play/Pause buttons control USB attached devices or just Bluetooth?


----------



## tim0chan

For the ppl who want a comparison,
Ha2 Vs Q5: 
No contest. Q5 sounds cleaner, has no sabre glare, more resolving, better details more connectivity to boot. Just get the Q5. Also, Q5 is more powerful with diff amp module and bass boost is better implemented.
Q5 vs x7mkii:
Just diff sound, same performance. Only the sound is a little warmer and no screen lol


----------



## tim0chan

OneL0ve said:


> Should the Q5 Previous/Next track and Play/Pause buttons control USB attached devices or just Bluetooth?


Just Bluetooth


----------



## riccyn

Has anyone tried connecting the Q5 to an Android phone? Was there any hiccups or straight forward?


----------



## tim0chan

riccyn said:


> Has anyone tried connecting the Q5 to an Android phone? Was there any hiccups or straight forward?


Straight forward with given cables usb c and micro


----------



## riccyn

Thanks for your response. What about Bluetooth?


----------



## erich6

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> 1.8Vrms.
> 
> Best regards



Thank you very much for the information!


----------



## superuser1

Interesting now when does the 4.4mm balanced amp module come out?


----------



## bflat

Still getting over my Macbook Pro not having optical out, but just remembered my AK SP1000 has optical out.

Per Q5 spec, optical only supports up to 96/24 and that's what I'm listening to right now with no issues from my AK DAP. I'm also using a very basic Fiio optical cable which I think is 1m long. Sounds great! Even optical is better than USB which to me sounds a little thin and harsh compared to coax and optical. Listening to a 96/24 version of Joe Satriani Surfing with the Alien. Rockin!

This just make me more upset that my Macbook has no optical out so have to use USB or AptX.

And yes, I hear a soft "pop" whenever a sampling rate changes between the 44 and 48 kHz based clocks. My SU-1 does the same so it doesn't bother me as I don't do much with mixed playlists.


----------



## bflat

superuser1 said:


> Interesting now when does the 4.4mm balanced amp module come out?



Add a dedicated balanced line out module too!


----------



## fieryoOo

Any news on whether its' gonna be available on, say, amazon soon or should I just order from aliexpress?


----------



## FiiO

ClassicGOD said:


> What frequencies did you check? I just did some further testing and 44.1kHz is fine but 48kHz occasionally pops (every few sec) and 96kHz brakes up all the time, 192 doesn't work at all.





OneL0ve said:


> Anyone getting an annoying pop or distortion switching from/to 48khz/96khz songs and back?
> 
> 44.1khz to 44.1khz OK
> 44.1khz to 48khz BAD
> ...


Dear friend,

Which input you are selecting for the Q5?

Best regards


----------



## OneL0ve

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Which input you are selecting for the Q5?
> 
> Best regards



USB to Q5 (white)


----------



## OneL0ve (Jan 31, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> For the ppl who want a comparison,
> Ha2 Vs Q5:
> No contest. Q5 sounds cleaner, has no sabre glare, more resolving, better details more connectivity to boot. Just get the Q5. Also, Q5 is more powerful with diff amp module and bass boost is better implemented.
> Q5 vs x7mkii:
> Just diff sound, same performance. Only the sound is a little warmer and no screen lol



Q5 sounds great and is more feature packed than the HA-2, but I find the (vocals) sound cleaner with the HA-2. (so far)  The bass impact is also much sweeter, rolls better, not rough sounding on the HA-2. 

Although, I still need to do more comparisons using wildly different tracks. Also those pops between frequencies on the Q5 are annoying. I hope this can be fixed in firmware. HA-2 has no issues with frequencies.

I've waited so long for the Q5 because it connects to almost everything, has a balanced output and uses AK4490s and is simply beautiful to look at. Still happy! 

Can we get an "RGB color cycling" option for the status indicator on the next firmware (during playback)?

(Also, Android App PLEASE!)


----------



## OneL0ve (Jan 31, 2018)

I can confirm that the Q5 works with Samsung Note 8 (unlocked) just fine. (sadly there is no "Audio Output" popup with my Note 8, unlike Note 5).

Edit:  found the issue. I needed to have Samsung Connect installed.


----------



## bflat

OneL0ve said:


> USB to Q5 (white)



The popping noise also happens on optical input and I know it's not coming from my SP1000 DAP.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Feb 1, 2018)

The popping noise when switching from one sample rate to another occurs because the DAC needs to reset itself before decoding a new sample rate. This has been explaied by FiiO in the X5 thread. I guess it is the same issue.
Doesn't happen when all tracks have the same sample rate. So this is only a issue when testing different tracks, during normal use it is not such a big problem. Would be nice if this reset is noise-free though.


----------



## FiiO

Link to the story behind the FiiO Q5:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/fiio/things-that-you-want-to-know-about-fiio-flagship-dac-amp-q5/1693832937340899/
Link to the introduction of FiiO Q5 accessories:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/fiio/introduction-to-the-nicely-made-accessories-for-fiio-q5/1693827950674731/
Please feel free to check!


----------



## fgfgfg0923

http://penonaudio.com/fiio-q5.html


----------



## OneL0ve

KopaneDePooj said:


> The popping noise when switching from one sample rate to another occurs because the DAC needs to reset itself before decoding a new sample rate.  ...during normal use it is not such a big problem. Would be nice if this reset is noise-free though.



I beg to differ, it is very annoying to me. My Oppo HA-2 handles switching very smoothly, so a solution is possible. (apples and oranges?)


----------



## bflat

OneL0ve said:


> I beg to differ, it is very annoying to me. My Oppo HA-2 handles switching very smoothly, so a solution is possible. (apples and oranges?)



The "solution" is generally to add a muting relay in the audio path. While I think Fiio's decision to not add this was a financial one, hardcore audiophiles will tell you to minimize circuitry in the audio path. Neither my SU-1 DDC or Holo Spring DAC mutes the clock switching and I'm pretty sure their decision was not a financial one.

Since you are using a music player that changes sampling rates on the fly, you might want to try the software muting option in your player. I know Audirvana has an option to add 0.5 sec or more software muting when a change in sampling rate is detected.


----------



## 397324

FiiO said:


> Link to the story behind the FiiO Q5:
> https://www.facebook.com/notes/fiio/things-that-you-want-to-know-about-fiio-flagship-dac-amp-q5/1693832937340899/
> Link to the introduction of FiiO Q5 accessories:
> https://www.facebook.com/notes/fiio/introduction-to-the-nicely-made-accessories-for-fiio-q5/1693827950674731/
> Please feel free to check!




Is the Q5 case real leather? If so, when is the real leather case for the X7ii coming out?


----------



## darkdoorway

Darren Cotter said:


> Is the Q5 case real leather? If so, when is the real leather case for the X7ii coming out?


It feels like real leather. Hang on. Yeah, unless I'm mistaken it is very much real leather. And quite sleek for the AM3 and Fiio Q5 together.


----------



## tim0chan

darkdoorway said:


> It feels like real leather. Hang on. Yeah, unless I'm mistaken it is very much real leather. And quite sleek for the AM3 and Fiio Q5 together.


its not


----------



## darkdoorway

tim0chan said:


> its not


I know previous cases for the X3 have been faux leather and the X5 was leatherette, both stated so by Fiio. The Q5 is a good approximation of leather if it isn't the real thing, with Fiio calling it leather.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Any updates on availability in Europe? The should have been available a week ago but all retailers are still waiting for their stock.


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> The popping noise when switching from one sample rate to another occurs because the DAC needs to reset itself before decoding a new sample rate. This has been explaied by FiiO in the X5 thread. I guess it is the same issue.
> Doesn't happen when all tracks have the same sample rate. So this is only a issue when testing different tracks, during normal use it is not such a big problem. Would be nice if this reset is noise-free though.





OneL0ve said:


> I beg to differ, it is very annoying to me. My Oppo HA-2 handles switching very smoothly, so a solution is possible. (apples and oranges?)


Dear friend,

Sorry if the late reply.

We have confirmed with the engineers that the reason would be similar like the X5III's.

Each time when the DAC chip change the sampling rates, it will need to reset itself, which can cause a slight crackle in the sound. 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

FiiO Q5 is on the way to our worldwide sales agents!
Click to get more information
Best regards


----------



## jonmbarlow

Does this come with a cable that would connect to Sony NW-ZX300?


----------



## superuser1

jonmbarlow said:


> Does this come with a cable that would connect to Sony NW-ZX300?


No AFAIK it doesnt.


----------



## tauceti

Hi, my Fiio Q5 gets hot while charging and playing simultaniously. Is this normal?
It is actually in the leather case and connected to iPhone and Micro USB charger. It is not that hot that you can't touch it but it is very very warm.


----------



## FiiO

tauceti said:


> Hi, my Fiio Q5 gets hot while charging and playing simultaniously. Is this normal?
> It is actually in the leather case and connected to iPhone and Micro USB charger. It is not that hot that you can't touch it but it is very very warm.


Dear friend,

Would it be colder while not charging. It may be normal if it is a bit warm whiling using in charging.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

jonmbarlow said:


> Does this come with a cable that would connect to Sony NW-ZX300?


Dear friend,

No, but you may get a FiiO L27 for help: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/80

Best regards


----------



## tauceti

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Would it be colder while not charging. It may be normal if it is a bit warm whiling using in charging.
> 
> Best regards


Dear Fiio,
when only charging without playing music it doesn't get very warm. Only when charging and listening.
It also gets a bit warm if using it without charging for a couple of time.
Hope that this is normal.
Was just wondering because it seemed to me a bit too warm.
Thanks!


----------



## demond

Yes,  when charging and listening the body temperature will more warm is normal.


----------



## bflat

Anyone know what it means to hear random "beep beep" during bluetooth playback?


----------



## tauceti

don't hear any beep beep. Sometimes I have small sound gap/pause during playback with the iPhone and then it continues. Don't know what is causing this but sometimes it happens when I get a notification/message from someone.


----------



## FiiO

bflat said:


> Anyone know what it means to hear random "beep beep" during bluetooth playback?


Dear friend,

The 'beep beep' mentioned could be heard everytime when using the Bluetooth? Did you try another device or the Q5 is in low battery status?

Best regards


----------



## DarginMahkum

Hello @FiiO! Do you know when the next batch will arrive in Europe? It is out of stock everywhere.


----------



## bflat

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The 'beep beep' mentioned could be heard everytime when using the Bluetooth? Did you try another device or the Q5 is in low battery status?
> 
> Best regards



It is the first time I have heard the "beep beep" during bluetooth playback. The sound is played through my headphones. The Q5 is plugged in to power and the color bar is solid blue. The distance from the Q5 to my PC is less than 1m.


----------



## tim0chan

bflat said:


> It is the first time I have heard the "beep beep" during bluetooth playback. The sound is played through my headphones. The Q5 is plugged in to power and the color bar is solid blue. The distance from the Q5 to my PC is less than 1m.


No beeps whatsoever for me


----------



## bflat

tim0chan said:


> No beeps whatsoever for me



I think it may be coming from my Windows OS. Q5 manual has nothing and I found some Windows support forums that mentioned similar beeps but unfortunately no definitive cause or fix. It was only happening the evening when I posted the issue, but have not heard it since then.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Still no update on the availability in Europe. I canceled my order and went with a Sound Blaster X7 for half the price instead.


----------



## tauceti

tauceti said:


> don't hear any beep beep. Sometimes I have small sound gap/pause during playback with the iPhone and then it continues. Don't know what is causing this but sometimes it happens when I get a notification/message from someone.


anyone else has some rare random interruptions during playback with Q5 connected via lightning cable to iPhone? Only for a second or so...but it annoys me.


----------



## Bibo

The Q5 is available in Europe (Germany) now. I just received a shipping notification for my preordered one and more Q5s are in stock in the official store.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Did anyone compare the sound of Q5 to DX200 and/or X7?


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Bibo said:


> The Q5 is available in Europe (Germany) now. I just received a shipping notification for my preordered one and more Q5s are in stock in the official store.



Too bad, about 6 hours too late. I already bought a used X7 on ebay.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

My review is live!
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...able-dac-amplifier.22846/reviews#review-19858


----------



## superuser1

KopaneDePooj said:


> My review is live!
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...able-dac-amplifier.22846/reviews#review-19858


Great review!


----------



## FiiO

tauceti said:


> anyone else has some rare random interruptions during playback with Q5 connected via lightning cable to iPhone? Only for a second or so...but it annoys me.


Dear friend,

As far as we know and according to the tests from our engineers,  the problem may becasue of the instability of the frequent update in the iOS system recently. We've already reported the issue to Apple without getting feedback from them. However, some of the users report that the issue would be solved in ios 11.3 stable version. If you don't mind, you may have a try.

Best regards


----------



## Bibo

My unit arrived today and i am very satisfied so far. The Q5 ist beautifully designed and crafted, well worth the asking price! It works flawlessly so far. I using it with the Fiio K5 dock and Windows 10, playing redbook flac in MediaMonkey. I also tried my Galaxy S7 with Neutron Music Player, both Bluetooth and USB OTG. Not every cable worked for the latter, one that is OTG enabled on both ends does the trick here. Galaxy S7 -> Bluetooth -> Q5 sitting in K5 is no problem also. The sound is very enjyoable with my Focal Clears both with or without the K5, but it is too early for comparisons or conclusions.
One thing i noticed though is that the Q5 auto powers off after a few minutes when no music is played even when it is in the dock. Is there a possibility to disable auto power off?


----------



## ClassicGOD

Bibo said:


> One thing i noticed though is that the Q5 auto powers off after a few minutes when no music is played even when it is in the dock. Is there a possibility to disable auto power off?


You can change this setting (up to 30mins or 0 to disable auto poweroff) from the iOS app.


----------



## Bibo

ClassicGOD said:


> You can change this setting (up to 30mins or 0 to disable auto poweroff) from the iOS app.


So I will be waiting for the android app. Or maybe could ask a colleague with an i-device to help me


----------



## springbay

Bibo said:


> So I will be waiting for the android app. Or maybe could ask a colleague with an i-device to help me



I strongly suggest you ask someone to help you fast. The default shut down time was driving me crazy when having the Q5 docked in the K5 during late night HTPC browsing and suddenly the youtube vids were blasting through my surround system instead of my head phones. It was not at all appreciated by my neighbors...


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## FiiO

Bibo said:


> My unit arrived today and i am very satisfied so far. The Q5 ist beautifully designed and crafted, well worth the asking price! It works flawlessly so far. I using it with the Fiio K5 dock and Windows 10, playing redbook flac in MediaMonkey. I also tried my Galaxy S7 with Neutron Music Player, both Bluetooth and USB OTG. Not every cable worked for the latter, one that is OTG enabled on both ends does the trick here. Galaxy S7 -> Bluetooth -> Q5 sitting in K5 is no problem also. The sound is very enjyoable with my Focal Clears both with or without the K5, but it is too early for comparisons or conclusions.
> One thing i noticed though is that the Q5 auto powers off after a few minutes when no music is played even when it is in the dock. Is there a possibility to disable auto power off?


Dear friend,

When the Q5 is not in working condition (when not connecting to any input device or with no signal input), and after a set amount of time (10 minutes by default), it will power off. You can change the timer through app after connecting the Q5 to the phone via Bluetooth.

You could set the idle power off to 0 for disable the idle power off.

Note that when the Q5 is in connected to other devices via Bluetooth, it will always stay in working condition each if there's no music playing, as it will also receive other system audio signals (such as the notification tone) from the phone/player.

Best regards


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## Bibo

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> When the Q5 is not in working condition (when not connecting to any input device or with no signal input), and after a set amount of time (10 minutes by default), it will power off. You can change the timer through app after connecting the Q5 to the phone via Bluetooth.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the answer, but I do not have an iPhone and there ist no app for Android or Windows available yet. However, a friend of mine walked in for a beer and I managed to set the timeout to the desired value with his iPhone, so everything is fine now.
Btw.: As mentioned earlier there seems to be an Android version of the Fiio Music app in development. Do you know when it might be available?


----------



## int_architect

Hawaiibadboy said:


>



Watched your unboxing last night. Looking forward to more.


----------



## FiiO

Bibo said:


> Thank you for the answer, but I do not have an iPhone and there ist no app for Android or Windows available yet. However, a friend of mine walked in for a beer and I managed to set the timeout to the desired value with his iPhone, so everything is fine now.
> Btw.: As mentioned earlier there seems to be an Android version of the Fiio Music app in development. Do you know when it might be available?


Dear friend,

The Android version may be released in the middle of this year.

Best regards


----------



## superuser1

Meanwhile would it be possible to have a small windows app to change these settings?


----------



## Bibo

superuser1 said:


> Meanwhile would it be possible to have a small windows app to change these settings?



The Fiio Control Panel app which is being installed with the driver would be a great place for that!


----------



## FiiO (Feb 13, 2018)

Bibo said:


> The Fiio Control Panel app which is being installed with the driver would be a great place for that!


Dear friend,

Currently, may not add that in the FiiO Control Panel. 

Best regards


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## Bibo

The media control buttons (play/pause etc.) are not working, when the Q5 is connected to my Galaxy S7 via USB. When I use Bluetooth, everything is fine. Can anybody confirm that issue, or is it my only my Q5/phone/cable?


----------



## bflat

Bibo said:


> The media control buttons (play/pause etc.) are not working, when the Q5 is connected to my Galaxy S7 via USB. When I use Bluetooth, everything is fine. Can anybody confirm that issue, or is it my only my Q5/phone/cable?



Media control buttons are only for bluetooth.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Bibo said:


> The media control buttons (play/pause etc.) are not working, when the Q5 is connected to my Galaxy S7 via USB. When I use Bluetooth, everything is fine. Can anybody confirm that issue, or is it my only my Q5/phone/cable?



I don't think they work unless you're using BT . At least they don't seem to work for me either, so this might be a BT supposrted function


----------



## Bibo

bflat said:


> Media control buttons are only for bluetooth.





Dobrescu George said:


> I don't think they work unless you're using BT . At least they don't seem to work for me either, so this might be a BT supposrted function


Thank you both. I have come to only use Bluetooth anyways as the SQ is great. I just wondered, because my good old E18 could control the phone via USB.


----------



## bflat

Bibo said:


> Thank you both. I have come to only use Bluetooth anyways as the SQ is great. I just wondered, because my good old E18 could control the phone via USB.



That required Fiio to test and support specific Android phones. This is something that Fiio clearly stated they would NOT do for the Q5. Can't say I blame them as there are no less than 24,000 Android phone models on the market.


----------



## Bibo

bflat said:


> That required Fiio to test and support specific Android phones. This is something that Fiio clearly stated they would NOT do for the Q5. Can't say I blame them as there are no less than 24,000 Android phone models on the market.


I don not blame them either, because I knew full Android compatibility via USB would be a hit or miss thing before I ordered the Q5 and it is not what I bought it for in the first place.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Come on! 

APT-X with the power of X7mkii in a pocket! 

This thing is bloody amazing as it is. Enough to make you a portable LCD-4MX!


----------



## bflat

Dobrescu George said:


> Come on!
> 
> APT-X with the power of X7mkii in a pocket!
> 
> This thing is bloody amazing as it is. Enough to make you a portable LCD-4MX!



Don't forget AAC BT codec for iOS! Just having the precise volume control is worth the purchase price.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bflat said:


> Don't forget AAC BT codec for iOS! Just having the precise volume control is worth the purchase price.



Agahahaha, sorry, I don't have any iOS around at the moment, so I had no idea about that


----------



## kundica

Received my Q5 a few days ago. Enjoying it for the most part but there's one very annoying feature that's driving me nuts. When used as a USB DAC connected to a computer it regularly turns itself off if there's no active sound playing through it. I suspect this is due to it having a separate USB power connection for power. In contrast, the Q1 MK2 just has one USB connection and will remain charged and functional when connected to a PC. If anyone knows a workaround that'd be helpful.

One other thing I'd like to note, I find the there to be more noise with sensitive IEMs on the Q5 than the Q1 MK2.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

kundica said:


> Received my Q5 a few days ago. Enjoying it for the most part but there's one very annoying feature that's driving me nuts. When used as a USB DAC connected to a computer it regularly turns itself off if there's no active sound playing through it. I suspect this is due to it having a separate USB power connection for power. In contrast, the Q1 MK2 just has one USB connection and will remain charged and functional when connected to a PC. If anyone knows a workaround that'd be helpful.



This has just been answered on the previous page...



ClassicGOD said:


> You can change this setting (up to 30mins or 0 to disable auto poweroff) from the iOS app.


----------



## kundica

KopaneDePooj said:


> This has just been answered on the previous page...


Thanks. I saw that but it doesn't help me since I don't own an iPhone nor know anyone close to me who does. It also doesn't solve the issue of needing 2 cables connected to the device if I want it to remain charged and work as a USB DAC with a PC. I understand the value of this feature with a mobile device, but it's terribly inconvenient when using it the way I do while I'm at work. The Q1 on the other hand, no problem, but I lose all the additional features of the Q5.


----------



## Bibo

kundica said:


> It also doesn't solve the issue of needing 2 cables connected to the device if I want it to remain charged and work as a USB DAC with a PC.


My Q5 is getting charged while it is connected to the PC as an USB DAC.  It is even getting charged by my phone while connected as DAC if I am using the wrong cable.


----------



## kundica

Bibo said:


> My Q5 is getting charged while it is connected to the PC as an USB DAC.  It is even getting charged by my phone while connected as DAC if I am using the wrong cable.


Interesting. It doesn't seem to charge off my laptop(perhaps the port I'm using), but it does drain my phone.


----------



## Immortal

I read all the thread and I couldn't resist 
I'm still testing the Q5, so it's too early to write my impressions (first impressions are excellent, though), but I want to ask something that is still not clear:

Desktop usage:
-if I use the microUSB connector on the side and I connect the Q5 to a wall charger (>= 2.0A) and the microUSB on the bottom to the computer, the battery will charge until it's 100% and then the power circuit "bypass" the battery? 
Or the battery will continue to stay continuously powered (thus decreasing its life)?
It's a thing that has been discussed in the past, but the answer from FiiO wasn't clear. And I want to be sure that I'm using the Q5 in the best way to preserve its battery lifespan. 

Future updates:
-it's not possible to update the Q5 to support LDAC
-it's possible to update the Q5 to support bluetooth 5.0+
-will it be possible to update the Q5 to support aptx hd or it is not supported by the adopted chip?

Q5 aluminum chassis:
-Am I the only one that received his Q5 with (minor) imperfections on the chassis? there are a couple of spots (1-2mm) where it is slightly scratched.

Thanks guys


----------



## tim0chan

Immortal said:


> I read all the thread and I couldn't resist
> I'm still testing the Q5, so it's too early to write my impressions (first impressions are excellent, though), but I want to ask something that is still not clear:
> 
> Desktop usage:
> ...


Aptxhd is not supported by the chip


----------



## tim0chan

kundica said:


> Received my Q5 a few days ago. Enjoying it for the most part but there's one very annoying feature that's driving me nuts. When used as a USB DAC connected to a computer it regularly turns itself off if there's no active sound playing through it. I suspect this is due to it having a separate USB power connection for power. In contrast, the Q1 MK2 just has one USB connection and will remain charged and functional when connected to a PC. If anyone knows a workaround that'd be helpful.
> 
> One other thing I'd like to note, I find the there to be more noise with sensitive IEMs on the Q5 than the Q1 MK2.


Moar power usually means at least a little bit more noise.


----------



## kundica

tim0chan said:


> Moar power usually means at least a little bit more noise.


I figured it was the amp module since people have mentioned the same with the X7ii. Both the Q5 and Q1 are a lot better with hiss than the X5iii I had though. It's also not bad especially if I'm only using SE.


----------



## int_architect (Feb 20, 2018)

Immortal said:


> I read all the thread and I couldn't resist
> I'm still testing the Q5, so it's too early to write my impressions (first impressions are excellent, though), but I want to ask something that is still not clear:
> 
> Desktop usage:
> ...



Mine arrived last Friday. I also noticed a few build quality issues, but all minor. I'm thoroughly enjoying the Q5! And it was worth the wait! Primarily use it in Bluetooth mode.

One thing I have noticed is that while charging the Q5 -- whether powered on or off -- the charging light doesn't stop flashing or turn off to signify the Q5 is fully charged. Haven't yet checked to see what settings are available via iPhone, which I use for work (Android for personal).

_e: Quoted wrong Head-fier_


----------



## Bibo

Immortal said:


> Q5 aluminum chassis:
> -Am I the only one that received his Q5 with (minor) imperfections on the chassis? there are a couple of spots (1-2mm) where it is slightly scratched.
> Thanks guys



There are no such things on my Q5, build quality is excellent. Besides, I preordered my unit at the official retailer in Europe and it was delivered on 10th Frebruary.


----------



## tas236

I cross-posted this in the review tour thread, but I'd be interested to see a comparison between this and the CEntrance BlueDAC. Seems like it's one of those for me (iPhone and CIEMs).


----------



## Bibo

int_architect said:


> Mine arrived last Friday. I also noticed a few build quality issues, but all minor. I'm thoroughly enjoying the Q5! And it was worth the wait! Primarily use it in Bluetooth mode.
> 
> One thing I have noticed is that while charging the Q5 -- whether powered on or off -- the charging light doesn't stop flashing or turn off to signify the Q5 is fully charged. Haven't yet checked to see what settings are available via iPhone, which I use for work (Android for personal).
> 
> _e: Quoted wrong Head-fier_


Maybe it is not fully charged then? It charges very slowly via the port at the bottom. When I put my Q5 into the K5 dock after i have come back home it takes some hours until the light stops flashing. With the port at the side charging is much faster.


----------



## BubbaJay

I was thinking of upgrading from my X5II and get the X7II but I feel like getting the Q5 to use with my X5 (I assume you can) is the better choice.


----------



## int_architect

Bibo said:


> Maybe it is not fully charged then? It charges very slowly via the port at the bottom. When I put my Q5 into the K5 dock after i have come back home it takes some hours until the light stops flashing. With the port at the side charging is much faster.


That was the problem...used the bottom USB port. Charging using the side port now with 2A charger. What's cool is the option to change the which port will charge or transmit data via the iOS app!


----------



## Dobrescu George

By the way, I have tried using Q5 with my full Audio System, Speakers, and it sounds amazing! Much better than the on-board audio of a computer, and better than the best dedicated audio cards there are (PCI), in case anybody was wondering  

This is using it via Line Out


----------



## Joewoof

Am I correct to say the volume knob doesn't work in Bluetooth mode?


----------



## kundica

Joewoof said:


> Am I correct to say the volume knob doesn't work in Bluetooth mode?


On the Q5? It works just fine.


----------



## Joewoof

kundica said:


> On the Q5? It works just fine.



Hmmmm... Something's up... It may be my phone
.. but when I'm connected to Bluetooth, I can only change the volume with the phone.... The knob has no effect.... I have an essential ph1 on 8.1 beta... So I admittingly think it may be because of the os... I will update when the official 8.1 comes out


----------



## kundica

Joewoof said:


> Hmmmm... Something's up... It may be my phone
> .. but when I'm connected to Bluetooth, I can only change the volume with the phone.... The knob has no effect.... I have an essential ph1 on 8.1 beta... So I admittingly think it may be because of the os... I will update when the official 8.1 comes out


Perhaps I misunderstood you. The volume knob on the Q5 doesn't change the volume on the phone when connected via bluetooth but it changes the volume on the Q5. The bluetooth volume control on the phone will always be controlled independently. I just set mine to max when I was testing it. AptX on my Tmobile LGV30 isn't working correctly though so pairing it to the Q5 sounds like crap. It sounds good paired with my Oneplus 3t.


----------



## Joewoof

kundica said:


> Perhaps I misunderstood you. The volume knob on the Q5 doesn't change the volume on the phone when connected via bluetooth but it changes the volume on the Q5. The bluetooth volume control on the phone will always be controlled independently. I just set mine to max when I was testing it. AptX on my Tmobile LGV30 isn't working correctly though so pairing it to the Q5 sounds like crap. It sounds good paired with my Oneplus 3t.



I have aptx working through Bluetooth by adding a magisk module... The problem is the volume isn't that loud...Its decent... In a quiet room, it's plenty... But walking around, a little more volume would be nice...


----------



## Joewoof

kundica said:


> Perhaps I misunderstood you. The volume knob on the Q5 doesn't change the volume on the phone when connected via bluetooth but it changes the volume on the Q5. The bluetooth volume control on the phone will always be controlled independently. I just set mine to max when I was testing it. AptX on my Tmobile LGV30 isn't working correctly though so pairing it to the Q5 sounds like crap. It sounds good paired with my Oneplus 3t.



Hmm I just reread this... So you ARE saying the knob works in Bluetooth mode.... Mine has no effect on volume... I remember reading a suggestion to keep the phones Bluetooth volume on max and then adjust the q5's knob for volume.... I can't do this with mine...


----------



## Bibo

Joewoof said:


> Hmm I just reread this... So you ARE saying the knob works in Bluetooth mode.... Mine has no effect on volume... I remember reading a suggestion to keep the phones Bluetooth volume on max and then adjust the q5's knob for volume.... I can't do this with mine...


The volume knob only controls the volume of the headphone outs at the bottom. The line out at the top has fixed volume. May this be the problem?


----------



## bflat

Bibo said:


> The volume knob only controls the volume of the headphone outs at the bottom. The line out at the top has fixed volume. May this be the problem?



I bet that's the problem, but that also gives me an interesting idea for controlling my PC monitors via keyboard volume control. Thanks!


----------



## Joewoof

Ohhhhhh


----------



## Bibo

bflat said:


> I bet that's the problem, but that also gives me an interesting idea for controlling my PC monitors via keyboard volume control. Thanks!


 
That's what I do and it works even better with the Fiio K5.
So I can easily switch between

Sounblaster Titanium HD -> K5 anlaog in -> Headphones/Desktop Speakers for Gaming/Movies  to
Q5 -> K5 dock in -> Headphones/Desktop for music or even to
Phone -> Q5 Bluetooth -> K5 dock in -> Headphones/Desktop
...
I am very happy with that combo!


----------



## int_architect

kundica said:


> Perhaps I misunderstood you. The volume knob on the Q5 doesn't change the volume on the phone when connected via bluetooth but it changes the volume on the Q5. The bluetooth volume control on the phone will always be controlled independently. I just set mine to max when I was testing it. AptX on my Tmobile LGV30 isn't working correctly though so pairing it to the Q5 sounds like crap. It sounds good paired with my Oneplus 3t.


Interesting about the V30's AptX. It's also AptX HD compatible as well, correct? I've had the LG V10 since launch, but have my eyes on the V30. This AptX issue is just one more reason for me to wait...


----------



## Joseph Lin

I just received my Q5 with AM3A about 2 hours ago. After an hour or so A/B between D14, iFi DSD Micro BL and W8, here is my impression:
When compares it with iBasso D14(a very old dac/amp), the treble on Q5 is not as resolving as D14, not to mention iFi DSD and W8. To me, the resolution on Q5 is like a class less than D14. The mids and sub-bass sounds a bit elevated while treble is recessed, not as airy as D14. The bass is great, not boomy. The sound stage is narrower than D14, like intimate.
The optical Spdif is supposed to bring a clean sound, instead, it sounds a bit "rough". I am surprised and very disappointed with it. 
There is a little bit of hiss when using Andromeda. I guess if you use other less sensitive IEMs, you will not hear the hiss. On the other hand, D14's hiss is almost unbearable. I did not try other headphones due to the short time.
Q5 does not get warm at all after an hour of playing. It is good. All input works.
If you plan to purchase your first multi-function Dac/Amp, Q5 will not disappoint you. It provides many input options, more than you would need. If you have other comparable or high end Dac/amp, you can skip it. It will not bring any "WOW" moment to you at least to me. I know this is not a fair comparison because it is much smaller than rest of my Dac/Amps, even D14 is thicker than Q5. That said, it is portable and good for stacking. I did not compare it with Mojo and I don't think I will ever want to, there is no reason to compare them.
This is my first impression and it is biased. Your mileage may vary. Do not beat me up, I am just providing my first and honest impression.


----------



## Voxata

Joseph Lin said:


> I just received my Q5 with AM3A about 2 hours ago. After an hour or so A/B between D14, iFi DSD Micro BL and W8, here is my impression:
> When compares it with iBasso D14(a very old dac/amp), the treble on Q5 is not as resolving as D14, not to mention iFi DSD and W8. To me, the resolution on Q5 is like a class less than D14. The mids and sub-bass sounds a bit elevated while treble is recessed, not as airy as D14. The bass is great, not boomy. The sound stage is narrower than D14, like intimate.
> The optical Spdif is supposed to bring a clean sound, instead, it sounds a bit "rough". I am surprised and very disappointed with it.
> There is a little bit of hiss when using Andromeda. I guess if you use other less sensitive IEMs, you will not hear the hiss. On the other hand, D14's hiss is almost unbearable. I did not try other headphones due to the short time.
> ...



Hard to say for all uses. For my gear, my K702M sounds better on my iDSD BL and my Shure 1540 much better on X5/A5 and sounds bloated on the bottom out of the BL. This hobby is very subjective


----------



## Joseph Lin

Voxata said:


> Hard to say for all uses. For my gear, my K702M sounds better on my iDSD BL and my Shure 1540 much better on X5/A5 and sounds bloated on the bottom out of the BL. This hobby is very subjective


I agree with you completely! My son told me his apple airpods is way better than my Utopia because it is very convenient for him to be able to move around while listening to his music and my Utopia sounds too loud(?), feels heavy on his head and it is wired thus inferior to his Airpods. I agree to him as well, because his needs are completely different than mine.

I hope you enjoy your music, I know I will.


----------



## Joseph Lin

Just found a very annoying problem. When Q5 connected to an AptX source, sometimes the sound becomes distorted. I have to turn off the source then turn it back on to make it sound right. The source is Avantree Aptx bluetooth Transmitter.


----------



## AllenWalker (Feb 23, 2018)

Joseph Lin said:


> I agree with you completely! My son told me his apple airpods is way better than my Utopia because it is very convenient for him to be able to move around while listening to his music and my Utopia sounds too loud(?), feels heavy on his head and it is wired thus inferior to his Airpods. I agree to him as well, because his needs are completely different than mine.
> 
> I hope you enjoy your music, I know I will.


Earpods > Utopia. I wonder what was your facial expression when you first heard that.....haha but at least convenient for him which agreeable xD


----------



## bahamot (Feb 23, 2018)

I just noticed USB sound (from Linux, ALSA direct hardware) has less highs and more low bass than Bluetooth's sound (from IOS and Android).


----------



## juancubo (Feb 23, 2018)

Hi everyone
Whats your opinion using the q5 as usb dac? Very similar to use X7ii as usb dac? Or comparing it with RHA Dacamp L1?
It's difficult to configure it to decode DSD with Foobar and Win10? Any problem to use it while charging?
Thanks


----------



## Voxata

I've never had good luck using Fiio equip as USB DAC - so I'm curious on this as well. Ref: My X5iii is not a great USB dac.


----------



## Joseph Lin

bahamot said:


> I just noticed USB sound (from Linux, ALSA direct hardware) has less highs and more low bass than Bluetooth's sound (from IOS and Android).


Just EQ treble and you will be fine.


----------



## Joseph Lin

juancubo said:


> Hi everyone
> Whats your opinion using the q5 as usb dac? Very similar to use X7ii as usb dac? Or comparing it with RHA Dacamp L1?
> It's difficult to configure it to decode DSD with Foobar and Win10? Any problem to use it while charging?
> Thanks


Since you are going to use Windows 10, why not purchase desktop gears? The same amount of money will give you much more.


----------



## Charente (Feb 23, 2018)

Indeed ... I just noticed Massdrop are offering the Aune X1s and powerful X7s balanced amp for $199 ... for a desktop setup.

EDIT: that's a price for each, I believe. Still good value IMO.


----------



## juancubo

Joseph Lin said:


> Since you are going to use Windows 10, why not purchase desktop gears? The same amount of money will give you much more.


Not much space in the desktop with the turntable..


----------



## demond

juancubo said:


> Not much space in the desktop with the turntable..


A lot of convenience, I usually use the Q5 on desktop, sometimes with K5.
The DSD can be played with foobar2000, and I'm still satisfied with this sound quality.


----------



## int_architect (Feb 24, 2018)

demond said:


> A lot of convenience, I usually use the Q5 on desktop, sometimes with K5.
> The DSD can be played with foobar2000, and I'm still satisfied with this sound quality.


I'm having the HARDEST time configuring Foobar2000 to use with the Q5. Already had foobar2000 configured for DSD, but FiiO's instructions breaks my setup. I gave up as it was too frustrating. May try again, but not sure it's worth it for my needs.

On another note... 

Demond, the Q5 is awesome! It's smaller and lighter than I expected, and the design is spot-on! The power and sound quality are nirvana-inducing for me. I've already convinced two of my friends to purchase. It was especially cool to see the early stages of development FiiO invited the Head-fi community to participate in. Kudos to you and your team. You folks did a great job!

_e: added kudos_


----------



## Dobrescu George

int_architect said:


> I'm having the HARDEST time configuring Foobar2000 to use with the Q5. Already had foobar2000 configured for DSD, but FiiO's instructions breaks my setup. I gave up as it was too frustrating. May try again, but not sure it's worth it for my needs.
> 
> On another note...
> 
> ...



With adding AMP5, you can even drive LCD-MX4 and even Beyerdynamic Amiron to amazingly delightful levels of clarity and detail, not to mention that sweet neutral yet slightly warm signature! 

This has became my main desktop listening combination for now, Q5 has all that power, ease of usage, and it stays in sync with my videos and games without an issue. I'll continue testing it


----------



## int_architect

Dobrescu George said:


> With adding AMP5, you can even drive LCD-MX4 and even Beyerdynamic Amiron to amazingly delightful levels of clarity and detail, not to mention that sweet neutral yet slightly warm signature!
> 
> This has became my main desktop listening combination for now, Q5 has all that power, ease of usage, and it stays in sync with my videos and games without an issue. I'll continue testing it


Don't tempt me! I almost bought the AM5 last week.


----------



## FiiO

int_architect said:


> I'm having the HARDEST time configuring Foobar2000 to use with the Q5. Already had foobar2000 configured for DSD, but FiiO's instructions breaks my setup. I gave up as it was too frustrating. May try again, but not sure it's worth it for my needs.
> 
> On another note...
> 
> ...


Dear friend，

You failed to play the DSD files from Foobar via Q5? Could the DSD light from the Q5 light up?
Can this instruction help: http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=42714
If not, you could PM us for help as well.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Joseph Lin said:


> Just found a very annoying problem. When Q5 connected to an AptX source, sometimes the sound becomes distorted. I have to turn off the source then turn it back on to make it sound right. The source is Avantree Aptx bluetooth Transmitter.


Dear friend,

In what certain condition or operation would the sound become distorbed? The issue doesn't happen for source without APTX? Did you try other APTX device as well?

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Bibo said:


> My Q5 is getting charged while it is connected to the PC as an USB DAC.  It is even getting charged by my phone while connected as DAC if I am using the wrong cable.


Dear friend,

The micro USB port on the side is used for charging and Bluetooth update. It's recommended to use DC 5V/1A(or above) charger to charge Q5.The micro USB port at the bottom is used for USB DAC connection with computers or Apple's devices and firmware update in the future.

Note: The USB port at the bottom could be used for charging too, however, the charging current would be relatively lower and charging time would be longer. So we don't recommend to use the port at the bottom for charging.

If the Q5 is charged by you mobile phone, it may because of the cable you use. You may need the cable with following 
definition: Micro plug the ID pin need to short with G pin.





You may contact one of our seller(wang@ddhifi.com) having those cable for help.
Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Immortal said:


> I read all the thread and I couldn't resist
> I'm still testing the Q5, so it's too early to write my impressions (first impressions are excellent, though), but I want to ask something that is still not clear:
> 
> Desktop usage:
> ...


Dear friend,

The battery would not be charged when it is fully charged 100%. If the current from the usb port of the computer is not enough for normal using of the Q5, the battery would decrease at that time for providing enough power to the Q5. 

The Q5 could not support APTX-HD because of the chip limitation.

Best regards


----------



## Joseph Lin

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> In what certain condition or operation would the sound become distorbed? The issue doesn't happen for source without APTX? Did you try other APTX device as well?
> 
> Best regards


Immediately after connected to Avantree. Always, never failed.


----------



## fieryoOo (Feb 25, 2018)

FiiO said:


> If the Q5 is charged by you mobile phone, it may because of the cable you use. You may need the cable with following
> definition: Micro plug the ID pin need to short with G pin.
> 
> 
> ...



Are we talking about the id pin on the phone side or the q5 side? Because I have tried a cable that connects my phone (s8 with type c) as host and it does drain battery from the phone.


----------



## FiiO

Joseph Lin said:


> Immediately after connected to Avantree. Always, never failed.


Dear friend,

The issue doesn't happen for source without APTX? Did you try other APTX device as well?
Just the few second after collection? 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

fieryoOo said:


> Are we talking about the id pin on the phone side or the q5 side? Because I have tried a cable that connects my phone (s8 with type c) as host and it does drain battery from the phone.


Dear friend,

On the phone side. You are using that cable but the Q5 is still being charged by the phone?

Best regards


----------



## fieryoOo

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> On the phone side. You are using that cable but the Q5 is still being charged by the phone?
> 
> Best regards



Yes, the q5 was still being charged. It is not actually a cable, but an otg adapter I got from amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07449RJV8/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Its description doesn't say anything explicitly about the id pin, but it did mention making the phone a host so I thought it should work, but maybe it's false advertisment?
Anyway, I then bought the cable for oppo ha-2 from ebay (which hasnt arrived yet) as others suggested, but I do actually want one that's longer (~50cm). Is there any longer cable that's known to work? Thanks!


----------



## Immortal

@FiiO Thanks for the answer. I take this opportunity to ask you if you have an update schedule about the release of an android or windows app to manage the Q5. I don't mean a player, but just something where I can set the shutdown time (for example). I don't have an iPhone nor an Apple computer.


----------



## FiiO

Immortal said:


> @FiiO Thanks for the answer. I take this opportunity to ask you if you have an update schedule about the release of an android or windows app to manage the Q5. I don't mean a player, but just something where I can set the shutdown time (for example). I don't have an iPhone nor an Apple computer.


Dear friend,

The Android version may be released in the middle of this year. Sorry if brinigng inconvenience to you.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

fieryoOo said:


> Yes, the q5 was still being charged. It is not actually a cable, but an otg adapter I got from amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07449RJV8/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Its description doesn't say anything explicitly about the id pin, but it did mention making the phone a host so I thought it should work, but maybe it's false advertisment?
> Anyway, I then bought the cable for oppo ha-2 from ebay (which hasnt arrived yet) as others suggested, but I do actually want one that's longer (~50cm). Is there any longer cable that's known to work? Thanks!


Dear friend,

You may contact one of our seller(wang@ddhifi.com) having those cable for help. He could provide a 80cm one.

Best regards


----------



## wanucom (Feb 26, 2018)

Hello Fiio,
What the Bluetooth update on usb side of Q5  ? more than to charge


----------



## Immortal

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The Android version may be released in the middle of this year. Sorry if brinigng inconvenience to you.
> 
> Best regards



oh ok, thanks!

Another thing that I'd like to know: there's a way to increase the brightness of the leds? 
The manual is very poor (no instructions about that) and that could be useful, because Q5 was designed for portable usage but when you are outdoor it's really hard to tell if the q5 is on and in what mode is connected...


----------



## FiiO

wanucom said:


> Hello Fiio,
> What the Bluetooth update on usb side of Q5  ? more than to charge


Dear friend,

Generally, USB connection may get better sound quality. But Bluetooth connection could be protable.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Immortal said:


> oh ok, thanks!
> 
> Another thing that I'd like to know: there's a way to increase the brightness of the leds?
> The manual is very poor (no instructions about that) and that could be useful, because Q5 was designed for portable usage but when you are outdoor it's really hard to tell if the q5 is on and in what mode is connected...


Dear friend,

Sorry, the brightness of the LED could not be adjusted. 

Best regards


----------



## wanucom

Yes I know the difference between BT and USB? The question is related to your following post :



FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> *The micro USB port on the side is used for charging and Bluetooth update*. [....]
> You may contact one of our seller(wang@ddhifi.com) having those cable for help.
> Best regards


----------



## FiiO

wanucom said:


> Yes I know the difference between BT and USB? The question is related to your following post :


Dear friend,

Generally, USB connection may get better sound quality. But Bluetooth connection could be protable.

Best regards


----------



## ClassicGOD

wanucom said:


> Yes I know the difference between BT and USB? The question is related to your following post :


The way I understand it is: If FiiO ever decides to update the Bluetooth firmware you will have to use this port to update it. To update the Q5 internal firmware you will need to use the bottom port.


----------



## Joewoof

Are you saying it could in the future get aptx hd?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Immortal said:


> oh ok, thanks!
> 
> Another thing that I'd like to know: there's a way to increase the brightness of the leds?
> The manual is very poor (no instructions about that) and that could be useful, because Q5 was designed for portable usage but when you are outdoor it's really hard to tell if the q5 is on and in what mode is connected...



IMO the brightness of the LED is perfect as is. No need to be brighter, or it would be annoying indoors or when charging in the dark in the same room where sleeping.
I'll use the Q5 80% at my desk and 20% outside... so it is the other way around for me.

It's not "hard to tell" what mode you're in when on the go, because you're either in 
Bluetooth mode / no cable attached / easy to tell 
OR 
USB mode / cable attached / easy to tell.
If no music is playing in either mode it will shut itself off after timeout so no need "to tell" if it's on or off.

Aren't you sick of BLUE BRIGHT LEDs ? I surely am... 



FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Sorry, the brightness of the LED could not be adjusted.
> 
> Best regards



Perfect! 
Please only make it adjustable if maintaining the current brightness level as an option.


----------



## int_architect

KopaneDePooj said:


> IMO the brightness of the LED is perfect as is. No need to be brighter, or it would be annoying indoors or when charging in the dark in the same room where sleeping.
> I'll use the Q5 80% at my desk and 20% outside... so it is the other way around for me.
> 
> It's not "hard to tell" what mode you're in when on the go, because you're either in
> ...


Completely agree. The current led brightness is perfect.


----------



## int_architect

Joewoof said:


> Are you saying it could in the future get aptx hd?


AptX HD is not an option with the Q5 since Q5 doesn't have the hardware. CSR8675 Bluetooth chip is required for AptX HD. Q5 has CSR8670 chip.


----------



## Joewoof

int_architect said:


> AptX HD is not an option with the Q5 since Q5 doesn't have the hardware. CSR8675 Bluetooth chip is required for AptX HD. Q5 has CSR8670 chip.



Thank you so much


----------



## int_architect

Joewoof said:


> Thank you so much


No worries!


----------



## Immortal

KopaneDePooj said:


> IMO the brightness of the LED is perfect as is. No need to be brighter, or it would be annoying indoors or when charging in the dark in the same room where sleeping.
> I'll use the Q5 80% at my desk and 20% outside... so it is the other way around for me.
> 
> It's not "hard to tell" what mode you're in when on the go, because you're either in
> ...




I asked if it possible to increase the brightness and for me implied that you can "revert" the brightness to a default level when you have to use it indoor. That is: adjustable brightness 
When I'm indoor the brightness is perfect, when I'm outdoor is hard to tell if I'm not listening to any sound because I haven't press for enough time the start button (q5 is off) or because it's still pairing (blue led flashing). I need to create some shadow with my hand to check and that's not immediate! I repeat, it's not a major issue, but being designed as a portable device it's kinda strange that you have such problems when you use the q5 outdoor 

btw, indoor I'm using Razer Chroma devices, so I'm used to adjust the color and the brightness of the leds


----------



## wanucom (Feb 27, 2018)

int_architect said:


> AptX HD is not an option with the Q5 since Q5 doesn't have the hardware. CSR8675 Bluetooth chip is required for AptX HD. Q5 has CSR8670 chip.



maybe upgrade to bluetooth V5??


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Immortal said:


> I asked if it possible to increase the brightness and for me implied that you can "revert" the brightness to a default level when you have to use it indoor. That is: adjustable brightness
> When I'm indoor the brightness is perfect, when I'm outdoor is hard to tell if I'm not listening to any sound because I haven't press for enough time the start button (q5 is off) or because it's still pairing (blue led flashing). I need to create some shadow with my hand to check and that's not immediate! I repeat, it's not a major issue, but being designed as a portable device it's kinda strange that you have such problems when you use the q5 outdoor
> 
> btw, indoor I'm using Razer Chroma devices, so I'm used to adjust the color and the brightness of the leds


Oh, I see. I didn't read your post properly, sorry. Adjustable is OK  I just want the current setting, and I don't have any problems outdoors.


----------



## FiiO

wanucom said:


> maybe upgrade to bluetooth V5??


Dear friend,

Theoretically, can upgrade to Bluetooth 5.0 via firmware update.

Best regards


----------



## wanucom

hello, it’is a good new because no more need aptx hd


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

please excuse my ignorance I am just getting into portable audio. what cables would I need to use the Q5 with my iphone 6s+? are they included, or do i need to purchase separately? thanks


----------



## wanucom

Uncle00Jesse said:


> please excuse my ignorance I am just getting into portable audio. what cables would I need to use the Q5 with my iphone 6s+? are they included, or do i need to purchase separately? thanks


it's included


----------



## FiiO

Uncle00Jesse said:


> please excuse my ignorance I am just getting into portable audio. what cables would I need to use the Q5 with my iphone 6s+? are they included, or do i need to purchase separately? thanks


Dear friend,

The lightning to micro usb cable comes with the Q5 as well. But if you need a longer one, you may need to buy it separately.

Best regards


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

I am having trouble pairing in BT from Q5 to ipod touch gen 6. Any advice?


----------



## tim0chan

Hawaiibadboy said:


> I am having trouble pairing in BT from Q5 to ipod touch gen 6. Any advice?


Make sure you press and hold the Bluetooth button till the light turns blue. Wait till the light flashes blue and red. Try pairing then


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

tim0chan said:


> Make sure you press and hold the Bluetooth button till the light turns blue. Wait till the light flashes blue and red. Try pairing then



Thanks,
Already doing that but no luck so far

I am getting the DSD light on via android but not from ipod touch through provided cable. Any limitation with transport of DSD over that cable?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Alright....now were in business


----------



## wilk0076

Nice!  What app is that?


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Mar 1, 2018)

Wow, didn't know iPods can do DSD. (transport native to external DAC that is)
Waiting for your video review @Hawaiibadboy  I saw in your latest video it will be a 4 devices comparison?


----------



## rocksarkar

Wow super cant express with words the clarity....i am using it with shure 535ltd with balanced cable....i also have hd 800s and want to try balanced..can you guys suggest me the adapter for xlr balanced to q5 balanced please....


----------



## scotvl

wanucom said:


> maybe upgrade to bluetooth V5??


I've read bluetooth 5 brings no sonic improvements supposed to be more about power savings and wearable tech,  though I could be wrong.


----------



## Joewoof

scotvl said:


> I've read bluetooth 5 brings no sonic improvements supposed to be more about power savings and wearable tech,  though I could be wrong.



From what i read, it will allow for further distance or a wider throughput... Supposedly able to choose... Not saying this option will be available for the q5's though... Wider throughput "can" allow for better audio


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

KopaneDePooj said:


> Wow, didn't know iPods can do DSD. (transport native to external DAC that is)
> Waiting for your video review @Hawaiibadboy  I saw in your latest video it will be a 4 devices comparison?



I use hiby player (free) and use their built in wifi transfer mode to move the DSD to ipod and it works. I am very happy


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Any impressions yet with the Cascade?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

I am now on the Q5 train....this sounds epic as fuuu!!!!!!!!


----------



## Zachik

Hawaiibadboy said:


> I am now on the Q5 train....this sounds epic as fuuu!!!!!!!!


How does it to compare to the HiBy R6 ?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Zachik said:


> How does it to compare to the HiBy R6 ?



It has a hardware bassboost (Q5)  God..I so much wanted a HW bassboost on dual dacs and some good power stage and Q5 is delivering.


----------



## Zachik

Hawaiibadboy said:


> It has a hardware bassboost (Q5)  God..I so much wanted a HW bassboost on dual dacs and some good power stage and Q5 is delivering.


First, it is quite funny you needed bass boost with the Cascade... those are bass cannons... Just sayin' 
Second, isn't the EQ / Mage8 on R6 give you a similar effect to the bass boost!?


----------



## tim0chan

Zachik said:


> First, it is quite funny you needed bass boost with the Cascade... those are bass cannons... Just sayin'
> Second, isn't the EQ / Mage8 on R6 give you a similar effect to the bass boost!?


Nope, he is taking abt hardware bass boost. Different due to digital signal manipulation Vs analogue


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Zachik said:


> First, it is quite funny you needed bass boost with the Cascade... those are bass cannons... Just sayin'
> Second, isn't the EQ / Mage8 on R6 give you a similar effect to the bass boost!?



I was just talking in general, not the Cascade in particular





tim0chan said:


> Nope, he is taking abt hardware bass boost. Different due to digital signal manipulation Vs analogue



yes. THD is lower than with software based DSP particularly bass where high THD % exist already (usually)


----------



## Zachik

Hawaiibadboy said:


> THD is lower than with software based DSP particularly bass where high THD % exist already (usually)


Got it. Thanks 
Having too many DAPs (FiiO X5III, HiBy R6 to name a few) - I am trying to decide if it makes sense FOR ME to get a Q5...


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Zachik said:


> Got it. Thanks
> Having too many DAPs (FiiO X5III, HiBy R6 to name a few) - I am trying to decide if it makes sense FOR ME to get a Q5...



If they made a case for this and an ipod touch I'd be a happy guy and looking for a gold/copper custom lightning to micro B about 8cm in length


----------



## tim0chan

Hawaiibadboy said:


> I was just talking in general, not the Cascade in particular
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I enjoyed the bass boost with the ex1000, made it really nice


----------



## Hawaiibadboy (Mar 3, 2018)

-


----------



## Rautej1

fieryoOo said:


> Yes, the q5 was still being charged. It is not actually a cable, but an otg adapter I got from amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07449RJV8/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Its description doesn't say anything explicitly about the id pin, but it did mention making the phone a host so I thought it should work, but maybe it's false advertisment?
> Anyway, I then bought the cable for oppo ha-2 from ebay (which hasnt arrived yet) as others suggested, but I do actually want one that's longer (~50cm). Is there any longer cable that's known to work? Thanks!



Hm, I've got the oppo cable from eBay, and it still charges the DAC (my phone is galaxy note 8) so it's probably not a solution ... Even though the description on eBay clearly states it's otg on both sides and doesn't charge your DAC ..


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## int_architect

Hawaiibadboy said:


>


How's this setup sound to your ears? Any preferred setup thus far?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

int_architect said:


> How's this setup sound to your ears? Any preferred setup thus far?



Everything sounds god so far. Have not heard anything that was not exceptional. Am really loving the ipod/Q5 combo too


----------



## Immortal

Dumb question: is the AM5 made with the same color of Q5?


----------



## tim0chan

Immortal said:


> Dumb question: is the AM5 made with the same color of Q5?


Yep


----------



## Immortal

tim0chan said:


> Yep


perfect, because I saw this picture here with Fiio X7 and it didn't match the color:


----------



## Dobrescu George

Immortal said:


> perfect, because I saw this picture here with Fiio X7 and it didn't match the color:



I can confrim that Q5 matches the color with AMP5 and most of my photos were actually taken with AMP5 on rather than with the AM03A it comes with


----------



## Immortal

Dobrescu George said:


> I can confrim that Q5 matches the color with AMP5 and most of my photos were actually taken with AMP5 on rather than with the AM03A it comes with


oh, thanks!
The difference in battery longevity (compared to am3a) is noticeable?


----------



## oopsydaisy

Which cable would I need to go balanced with Shure SE535 to Q5?


----------



## willywill

oopsydaisy said:


> Which cable would I need to go balanced with Shure SE535 to Q5?


MMCX to 2.5mm easy to find and cheap, don't get fooled by the spec just get one that you like they all work the same


----------



## demond

Rautej1 said:


> Hm, I've got the oppo cable from eBay, and it still charges the DAC (my phone is galaxy note 8) so it's probably not a solution ... Even though the description on eBay clearly states it's otg on both sides and doesn't charge your DAC ..


If the Q5's light flashes, it will be recharged. If only a mobile phone prompt is charging the device. It's normal, and it's not recharged.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## Dobrescu George

demond said:


> If the Q5's light flashes, it will be recharged. If only a mobile phone prompt is charging the device. It's normal, and it's not recharged.



BTW, I've been using Q5 for a while with LCD-MX4, and they make an amazing pairing! 

Quite excellent through and through and I'm really glad that with AMP5, Q5 is a real force to drive them LCD's 

Will post more photos after I manage to develop them XD


----------



## Rautej1

demond said:


> If the Q5's light flashes, it will be recharged. If only a mobile phone prompt is charging the device. It's normal, and it's not recharged.


Nope, I would love it to be so, but actually my Galaxy Note 8 gets 87% to 36% in under an hour of playback 
But mybad, I ordered mindlessly the Oppo cable. The same seller has also a fiio Q5 cable newly listed, so I ordered that one and will give it a try. (apparently there are some differences as the charging prevention stuff probably could not be done on the usbc side)


----------



## superuser1

Rautej1 said:


> Nope, I would love it to be so, but actually my Galaxy Note 8 gets 87% to 36% in under an hour of playback
> But mybad, I ordered mindlessly the Oppo cable. The same seller has also a fiio Q5 cable newly listed, so I ordered that one and will give it a try. (apparently there are some differences as the charging prevention stuff probably could not be done on the usbc side)


Dobry Den.. do let us know if that cable helps. Dekuji


----------



## Dobrescu George

@FiiO what does flashing white light mean, while it is being used with a PC? I have no idea and the manual doesn't seem to have flashing large white LED 

It looks a bit menancing


----------



## Immortal

Dobrescu George said:


> @FiiO what does flashing white light mean, while it is being used with a PC? I have no idea and the manual doesn't seem to have flashing large white LED
> 
> It looks a bit menancing



afaik, white: connected via usb. If flashing/pulsating/breathing it means that is also charging!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Immortal said:


> afaik, white: connected via usb. If flashing/pulsating/breathing it means that is also charging!



Thanks! 

I was not expecting it to be charging and so it looked a bit strange to me  

It is working all and well XD 

BTW, really rocking it with Audeze LCD-MX4 !


----------



## SSJ3TM

Fiio, i found a couple adapters that would make it possible to connect an ipod classic to the q5 with a usb cable:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L8KN3P0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M5GZ3N0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7&psc=1
If i connect my ipod classic to the q5 in this way, would it be possible for the q5 to receive a digital signal from the ipod classic?


----------



## qsk78

Does anyone know when the Q5 will be available in the official store on Ali?
I spoke to Penon Audio store, they say in 1 months.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

qsk78 said:


> Does anyone know when the Q5 will be available in the official store on Ali?
> I spoke to Penon Audio store, they say in 1 months.


By the end of March


----------



## qsk78 (Mar 7, 2018)

I have a question to happy owners regarding the digital transport:
Is there any difference (in SQ) which type of connection with Q5 you use: optical, sony wm port, android, apple?
I'm planning to use either my Plenue P1 via optical signal or any cheap Sony player via its WM-port. Thanks.


----------



## FiiO

Dobrescu George said:


> @FiiO what does flashing white light mean, while it is being used with a PC? I have no idea and the manual doesn't seem to have flashing large white LED
> 
> It looks a bit menancing






Best regards


----------



## Dobrescu George (Mar 7, 2018)

Seems that it caught a glitch and I double posted XD 

Why not share a nice photo of Q5 then?


----------



## zeroselect

Does anyone know where I can purchase the leather case  for the Q5?

I want to put 3M dual lock between my Note 8 phone case and Q5 for my portable setup.


----------



## wanucom (Mar 7, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Best regards



hello Fiio, when will the cable coax L28 please?


----------



## bflat

Just completed a 6 hour flight with the Q5 connected to my iPhone X via Bluetooth and AAC codec. Sound is fantastic and what's more amazing is my iPhone battery only used less than 20% battery playing non stop for 6 hours. Had I used USB to Lightning, I think battery would have been more than 50% drained on my iPhone. Since I only have AAC files on my iPhone, I don't see any need to use USB.


----------



## FiiO

zeroselect said:


> Does anyone know where I can purchase the leather case  for the Q5?
> 
> I want to put 3M dual lock between my Note 8 phone case and Q5 for my portable setup.


Dear friend,

You may get one from our Aliexpress store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...785.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.4af86c60RMOVMg

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

wanucom said:


> hello Fiio, when will the cable coax L28 please?


Dear friend,

Sorry, we don't have the estimated time currently.

Best regards


----------



## snellemin

So when I first got the Q5, I wasn't too impressed with the sound.  Sound changed quite a bit after 30 hours.  Made a quick temporary adapter to use the balanced out to my 3.5mm TRRS connections. The balanced sound to me sound much much better vs the standard output.  Not a fan of the 2.5mm for the balanced connection.  

Not a fan of having to use an apple device to change filter settings in the Q5. I didn't hear a difference in the filter settings, like I did with the Sony Dap.  Waiting on a Andriod app from FIIO to make this happen.  I understand FIIO is invested into Apple with the dongles, so android is on the back burner.

Very impressed with the range and sound quality of the BT.  I can walk around at work without losing connection.  

To me the Q5 shines in playing DSD.  Sound is the same as Mojo and Sony PHA-3.  With the regular 24bit stuff I have, the Mojo and Sony have the edge.  I converted a bunch of my standard CD's into DSD, thinking I wouldn't be able to hear a difference.   I was wrong.  The DSD conversion sounded way better.  I thought I was just hearing things and asked a few of my audio buddies to come and have a listen.  They could also tell that the DSD version sounded better.  
So, I'm keeping the Q5 for DAC duties.  It's cheaper then either the Mojo or Sony.  However the used Mojo's are cheaper then the Q5.  

Wish item:
I want FIIO to offer a DIY amp module.  
It can be bigger if needed.
It needs to be balanced.
Ability to swap out the buffers and Opamps.
No 2.5mm TRRS!!
Power needs to be the same as the E12DIY or AM5.  More would be nice for Bassheads that like 40Hz and below.
$150-175 price point 

Anyways, the FIIO Q5 has found a permanent spot in my work desktop setup using the Line-out.  And if I need to be on my feet around the office, I can still have my music through BT.


----------



## slider2828 (Mar 10, 2018)

Hey Guys,

First post because I just got into the headfi stuff but was always into home audio setup. Always been a lurker here on headfi.

I got a chance to try my Oppo PM-3 with Q5 back to back to a Magni 3 - Modi 2 - Eitr.....

Tried it on a bunch of stuff through Foobar2000 24bit / 96k flacs....

Just my .02....

The PM-3's which tend to be a little punchy and veiled a tad vs the HD650's, were amazing on the Schiit stack. It literally sounded similar to HD650's but on a closed planar.... Amazing...

Overall I felt through that stack, it was what I was looking for. I use the headphones on an open floor office plan so hd650 is not possible.

I mean truthfully the Q5 is no slouch and best I have heard on a dac / amp / portable combo / bluetooth .... Through the bluetooth and aptx it is almost as good as a USB cable plugged in.  Thanks everyone.


----------



## demond

snellemin said:


> So when I first got the Q5, I wasn't too impressed with the sound.  Sound changed quite a bit after 30 hours.  Made a quick temporary adapter to use the balanced out to my 3.5mm TRRS connections. The balanced sound to me sound much much better vs the standard output.  Not a fan of the 2.5mm for the balanced connection.
> ---------
> Wish item:
> I want FIIO to offer a DIY amp module.
> ...


Thank you for your suggestion. This operation doesn't know whether it is feasible. We can evaluate it.


----------



## demond

slider2828 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> First post because I just got into the headfi stuff but was always into home audio setup. Always been a lurker here on headfi.
> 
> ...


 thank you


----------



## snellemin

Can there be a firmware update that enables line-out and headphone-out to work at the same time?


----------



## tim0chan

snellemin said:


> So when I first got the Q5, I wasn't too impressed with the sound.  Sound changed quite a bit after 30 hours.  Made a quick temporary adapter to use the balanced out to my 3.5mm TRRS connections. The balanced sound to me sound much much better vs the standard output.  Not a fan of the 2.5mm for the balanced connection.
> 
> Not a fan of having to use an apple device to change filter settings in the Q5. I didn't hear a difference in the filter settings, like I did with the Sony Dap.  Waiting on a Andriod app from FIIO to make this happen.  I understand FIIO is invested into Apple with the dongles, so android is on the back burner.
> 
> ...


No way I'm taking 3.5mm trrs. For safer use, 4.4 pentaconn would be better. And yes opamp rolling would be fun but the size of the module would have to increase very much. I am not sure why you would need the ho and lo to be active at the same time


----------



## Hawaiibadboy (Mar 10, 2018)

Getting an iOS for Q5 meant me and Kaiser Tone were on a collision course

su-weeeeet!!



Oh...and I did a vid


----------



## qsk78 (Mar 10, 2018)

There is an adhesive sheet from Oyaide - Pota-Pita

*  *

I used that stuff in the past connecting AK100 with Vantam - nice thing to use.


----------



## torifile

snellemin said:


> To me the Q5 shines in playing DSD.  Sound is the same as Mojo and Sony PHA-3.  With the regular 24bit stuff I have, the Mojo and Sony have the edge.  I converted a bunch of my standard CD's into DSD, thinking I wouldn't be able to hear a difference.   I was wrong.  The DSD conversion sounded way better.  I thought I was just hearing things and asked a few of my audio buddies to come and have a listen.  They could also tell that the DSD version sounded better.
> So, I'm keeping the Q5 for DAC duties


That makes no sense at all. Standard CDs don’t have enough data to make a bit of difference as DSD files. It’s like saying converting 256 kbps mp3 flies to FLAC makes them sound better. That’s hogwash.


----------



## snellemin

torifile said:


> That makes no sense at all. Standard CDs don’t have enough data to make a bit of difference as DSD files. It’s like saying converting 256 kbps mp3 flies to FLAC makes them sound better. That’s hogwash.


Have you tried it?


----------



## torifile (Mar 10, 2018)

snellemin said:


> Have you tried it?


Why would I try it when it is complete nonsense?

ETA: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/converting-pcm-44-1-16-to-dsd.324678/


----------



## Dobrescu George

torifile said:


> Why would I try it when it is complete nonsense?
> 
> ETA: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/converting-pcm-44-1-16-to-dsd.324678/



Of course it is nonsense, it is literally the same data but packaged differently


----------



## 329161

Audiophiles (including myself) think they hear lots of things that just aren't so. It's like religion.


----------



## Dobrescu George

dcfac73 said:


> Audiophiles (including myself) think they hear lots of things that just aren't so. It's like religion.



Any conversion can degrade the signal, if the conversion algorithm is not perfect. 

The DSD file is exactly the same file as the PCM one, decoded by the same DAC chip usually. The idea isn't that I say that there is no difference, the idea is that in the very technical part of it, the data included is supposed the same or less after such a conversion, it isn't supposed to be able to introduce a better quality in any way, the very design of it doesn't imply that the signal will be better. 


---

The whole DSD idea started from the concept that the mastering was kept in 24 bits / 192 kHz or so, or even that the mastering was done in DSD, so you'd have a purely DSD file. Or even DSD re-remasters from the original analogue master and such. You aren't supposed to make DSD files from Redbook, the very technical nature of DSD isn't to act like an enhancer in this case, it is just a format supposed to contain the very same data that was fed to it. If you'd have a different DAC processing it, again, would be something, but you have the very same DAC processing the DSD file usually, which further indicates that the DSD file is supposed to be the same quality  

Of course, I can't convince anyone of this, but I may be able to help you make space for more albums on your mSD cards if you know this


----------



## slider2828

I took this from mojo audio. I think that what we aren't accounting for is Fiio doing upsampling the dsd file. Also as said below there are advantages to upsampling dsd vs standard pcm recordings. So in fact there is a possibility that he can detect the difference between pcm and dsd on his equipment. 

Truthfully if the equipment amp dac and line is good to great, then even difference between standard bit rate stuff to mqa can sound different. 

------------ excerpt from mojo. Trust me I want to try dsd.

This is why DSD128 (aka Double-Rate DSD) and DSD256 (aka Quad-Rate DSD) formats came into being. This is also why advanced player software, such as JRiver, offers Double-Rate DSD output. Using player software that upsamples DSD64 to DSD128 or DSD256 significantly improves performance by putting the digital artifacts octaves above audibility allowing more advanced noise-shaping algorithms and less severe digital filters. Note these extremely high sampling frequencies are why ultra accurate clocking is more important in DSD vs. PCM recordings.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

This device plays DSD

It is a thread for folks interested in the device and what it can do.

The debate about DSD belongs in a thread *not DEDICATED TO THE PROMOTION AND DISCUSSION OF THE FIIO Q5*

Debate DSD in Sound Science.

I think it sounds fantastic on this Q5....which is said by me in the thread made to promote an amp/dac that does that.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## Immortal

The appreciation and the excitement given by this Q5 is increasing day by day... What a device!
I'm using this through BT and USB and in both ways it works flawlessly.
First time with a Fiio device, but definitely not the last!


----------



## snellemin (Mar 12, 2018)

I've tried using the coax in today and just checking the sound using the Pioneer Se‑cx8.  I used the older Ibasso D7 on my work system. I had swapped out the dac chip in the D7 to WM8741 for a more analog sound.  So anyways, I used the rca out of the D7 the the Parasound Preamp and Amp.  The coax out of the D7 to the Q5.  Volume matched the Se output of the Parasound still sounds better then the Balanced output of the Q5, but not by much.  The Parasound has a more open sound stage and more detail.

In case anyone is wondering; The Parasound preamp has the V6 classic Burson and the Parasound amp has the V4 Burson opamp in there.

Next test will be using the optical-in on the Q5.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

snellemin said:


> I've tried using the coax in today and just checking the sound using the Pioneer Se‑cx8.  I used the older Ibasso D7 on my work system. I had swapped out the dac chip in the D7 to WM8741 for a more analog sound.  So anyways, I used the rca out of the D7 the the Parasound Preamp and Amp.  The coax out of the D7 to the Q5.  Volume matched the Se output of the Parasound still sounds better then the Balanced output of the Q5, but not by much.  The Parasound has a more open sound stage and more detail.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering; The Parasound preamp has the V6 classic Burson and the Parasound amp has the V4 Burson opamp in there.
> 
> Next test will be using the optical-in on the Q5.



My man 50 grand!

What IEM you rocking?


----------



## snellemin

Hawaiibadboy said:


> My man 50 grand!
> 
> What IEM you rocking?



Still rocking the Pioneer se x8 bass shakers and the Trinity Icarus III.


----------



## Slashn77

Hawaiibadboy said:


> My man 50 grand!
> 
> What IEM you rocking?



Hey i saw part of your video on YT but was in a rush.
Did you mention the noise floor or any audible noise with sensitive IEMS or through BT? I use tidal and Spotify for streaming so I only use my iphone7 no dap and want to use this for my CA Lyra 2 to replace my old old creative sound blaster e3 that I would use via BT but it sounds kind of distorted. That distortion/hiss goes away on my Mayflower ARC and schiit stack when I’m at my computer listening(which is rare) so I’m curious your opinion on the q5 Mark II for portable use with the lyras as well as my UE900s


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Slashn77 said:


> Hey i saw part of your video on YT but was in a rush.
> Did you mention the noise floor or any audible noise with sensitive IEMS or through BT? I use tidal and Spotify for streaming so I only use my iphone7 no dap and want to use this for my CA Lyra 2 to replace my old old creative sound blaster e3 that I would use via BT but it sounds kind of distorted. That distortion/hiss goes away on my Mayflower ARC and schiit stack when I’m at my computer listening(which is rare) so I’m curious your opinion on the q5 Mark II for portable use with the lyras as well as my UE900s



No noise or hiss but now using those 2 IEM. Also I have a ipod touch6 and you an iphone so some folks say the noise in a phone sometimes causes sound issues with BT. I dunno. I can listen via BT and finally enjoy that config for first time ever. Spotify works great but Tidal....I am in Japan and getting that to work over here is hit and miss on any device. My stack is built and used portable and love it


----------



## slider2828

I used tidal and spotify on my UE pro reference and no hissing from the amp over bluetooth if that helps?


----------



## Dobrescu George

I don't get any kind of Hissing through BT, at least with what I've tried so far, Samsung TAB 10 something something T580. It is APT-X, and the BT works flawlessly for me, with IE800, Xelento, RE2000, and Dita Truth  

It may be a noisy source or an interference with the source, Q5 doesn't seem to cause any kind of issue on my side, even while in a rather bad environment like sitting in a bus where almost everyone is also using their smartphones and such


----------



## snellemin

I'm liking this little amp more and more with the balanced output.  Really thinking about letting some of my other portable amps/dacs go.

Jamming with the SZ-2000.


----------



## superuser1

snellemin said:


> I'm liking this little amp more and more with the balanced output.  Really thinking about letting some of my other portable amps/dacs go.
> 
> Jamming with the SZ-2000.


Love the adapter. Where did you get it from?


----------



## snellemin

superuser1 said:


> Love the adapter. Where did you get it from?



I made it earlier, using 8 mogami wires.


----------



## superuser1

snellemin said:


> I made it earlier, using 8 mogami wires.


Really great work .. looks durable and absolutely beautiful!


----------



## kundica

Slashn77 said:


> Hey i saw part of your video on YT but was in a rush.
> Did you mention the noise floor or any audible noise with sensitive IEMS or through BT? I use tidal and Spotify for streaming so I only use my iphone7 no dap and want to use this for my CA Lyra 2 to replace my old old creative sound blaster e3 that I would use via BT but it sounds kind of distorted. That distortion/hiss goes away on my Mayflower ARC and schiit stack when I’m at my computer listening(which is rare) so I’m curious your opinion on the q5 Mark II for portable use with the lyras as well as my UE900s


I get occasional electronic noise when using the Q5 via BT with my V30(apt-x). I don't seem to hear it with the other 2 phones I tried so it might be device dependent. There is also some slight hiss when using very sensitive IEMs. On SE it's barely there but using BAL it will personal preference whether or not you find it a issue. That said, it's one of the least hissy portable devices I've used minus the Q1 MK2.


----------



## zeroselect

I can hear the floor noise (slight hissing) on both my cascade and my vega. This in bluetooth, usb, balanced, and unbalanced. Also tried different sources and still the same result. You can barely hear it but its there.


----------



## snellemin

Tried the optical input using an HDMI audio splitter.  Works nicely with the Q5


----------



## Audiowood

My review is up! Enjoy folks!


----------



## torifile

How’s Bluetooth reliablity and sound from an iPhone X? I typically hate using Bluetooth for anything but it’s so convenient. Audio quality is of the utmost importance for me with this setup. Convenience is nice but not at the expense of SQ.


----------



## bflat

torifile said:


> How’s Bluetooth reliablity and sound from an iPhone X? I typically hate using Bluetooth for anything but it’s so convenient. Audio quality is of the utmost importance for me with this setup. Convenience is nice but not at the expense of SQ.



If you are listening to AAC tracks like Apple Music, it is as good as wired. For MP3 or lossless tracks, it's so-so since iOS doesn't support natively and reverts to SBC. These are technical facts. As for the sound quality of AAC versus lossless, there is no consensus from scientists and audiophiles alike. What one can infer from this ongoing debate is that AAC is pretty damn close to lossless quality. In my experience an AAC from a high quality master sounds better than a lossless file from a low quality master. Apple Music gets all of their music directly from the recording companies in 24/96 format and converts to AAC.

On a side note, all my music is ALAC lossless but use AAC for my iPhone due to storage space. I was very happy to learn that both ALAC and AAC files names are identical so I can use the same playlist M3U files for either ALAC or AAC tracks. That fact that Q5 supports native AAC codec on BT was perfect. I also noted previously that BT from an iPhone X uses very little battery compared to wired. I suspect Apple has not implemented higher bandwidth BT so that battery life is optimized.


----------



## torifile

bflat said:


> If you are listening to AAC tracks like Apple Music, it is as good as wired. For MP3 or lossless tracks, it's so-so since iOS doesn't support natively and reverts to SBC. These are technical facts. As for the sound quality of AAC versus lossless, there is no consensus from scientists and audiophiles alike. What one can infer from this ongoing debate is that AAC is pretty damn close to lossless quality. In my experience an AAC from a high quality master sounds better than a lossless file from a low quality master. Apple Music gets all of their music directly from the recording companies in 24/96 format and converts to AAC.
> 
> On a side note, all my music is ALAC lossless but use AAC for my iPhone due to storage space. I was very happy to learn that both ALAC and AAC files names are identical so I can use the same playlist M3U files for either ALAC or AAC tracks. That fact that Q5 supports native AAC codec on BT was perfect. I also noted previously that BT from an iPhone X uses very little battery compared to wired. I suspect Apple has not implemented higher bandwidth BT so that battery life is optimized.



Thanks. I’m currently bouncing around between Apple Music, Spotify and Tidal. I long ago left behind the days of encoding my own music. My experience with music over Bluetooth, though, has been lackluster. It’s fine in the car but even there I can tell a distinct difference between wired and Bluetooth. I’ll have to do some testing to see if it’s acceptable.


----------



## bflat

torifile said:


> Thanks. I’m currently bouncing around between Apple Music, Spotify and Tidal. I long ago left behind the days of encoding my own music. My experience with music over Bluetooth, though, has been lackluster. It’s fine in the car but even there I can tell a distinct difference between wired and Bluetooth. I’ll have to do some testing to see if it’s acceptable.



There are few BT devices that natively decode AAC files. What you are likely hearing in your car is a low bandwidth SBC codec. Furthermore, on the Q5, Fiio bypasses the BT chip decoder and sends the AAC stream directly to the AKM DAC chips so in theory, there should be no sound difference of an AAC track played via BT or USB wired.


----------



## LetheFB

Is it possible to control Q5 via FiiO Music App using iPod Touch 6th Gen? I mean is there possibility of changing filter or usb settings with iPod Touch?


----------



## bflat

LetheFB said:


> Is it possible to control Q5 via FiiO Music App using iPod Touch 6th Gen? I mean is there possibility of changing filter or usb settings with iPod Touch?



Yes since 6th gen runs the latest version of iOS. Go ahead and install it just to be sure. You don't need a Q5 to run the app.


----------



## KaiFi

What do you guys think about the AM5 amp module with the Q5? Does it sound much different from the default one? Or would it only be worth getting if I have hard-to-drive headphones?

I'm just wondering if you guys have noticed different sound signatures with AM5 and the other modules. Or if it's best to just stick with the default one.

I haven't actually purchased a Q5 yet, but I'm really interested, since my first ever DAC/amp was a Fiio and it'd be interesting to try their highest-end model.


----------



## torifile

I got mine today. How do I change the filters? I downloaded the FiiO music app and didn’t see anything in there about filters. That said, the app needs lots of work. Not a good first impression, I’ve got to say. It’s not even optimized for the iPhone X.


----------



## ChiHawk

torifile said:


> I got mine today. How do I change the filters? I downloaded the FiiO music app and didn’t see anything in there about filters. That said, the app needs lots of work. Not a good first impression, I’ve got to say. It’s not even optimized for the iPhone X.


Ha I have the same question.  I just unboxed mine, found the Control app doesn't work, I know I saw one of the reviewers post pics of modifying settings through an app, but I haven't figured it out yet.  I also have an X  and agreed, the FiiO music app is crap.  The Onkyo player works very well and so far my impressions are good.  I'm swapping out an older TEAC HA-P50(b) for the Q5.


----------



## bflat

torifile said:


> I got mine today. How do I change the filters? I downloaded the FiiO music app and didn’t see anything in there about filters. That said, the app needs lots of work. Not a good first impression, I’ve got to say. It’s not even optimized for the iPhone X.



Once your Q5 is connected via BT to your iPhone, look for "Q5" under settings. There you will see filter options. Once set to whatever filter you want, it will remain that way until you change it again. So you are free to use whatever music player you like best and can use the FiiO app just to make changes to the filters.


----------



## ChiHawk

bflat said:


> Once your Q5 is connected via BT to your iPhone, look for "Q5" under settings. There you will see filter options. Once set to whatever filter you want, it will remain that way until you change it again. So you are free to use whatever music player you like best and can use the FiiO app just to make changes to the filters.


Ah I see; it only works over BT and not with the USB connection.  Bummer.  Thanks!


----------



## bflat

ChiHawk said:


> Ah I see; it only works over BT and not with the USB connection.  Bummer.  Thanks!



For Q5 settings, yes only BT, but once you select what you want, it will remain that way and you can connect via USB to play music from whatever music app you want that supports external DACs.


----------



## torifile

I got it working now. Thanks. What do the filters do?


----------



## bflat

torifile said:


> I got it working now. Thanks. What do the filters do?






 

Give the filter changes a good 5-10 seconds to go into full effect if you are changing while listening to music.


----------



## scotvl (Mar 16, 2018)

bflat said:


> Give the filter changes a good 5-10 seconds to go into full effect if you are changing while listening to music.


What filter and over sampling do you use?


----------



## Dobrescu George

I've no idea why they explained it like that in that graph, but when I have a choice, it really depends on the device, most of times it is shartp roll-off for me


----------



## bflat

scotvl said:


> What filter and over sampling do you use?



I generally use the Q5 with my Katanas using the balanced output. I don't over sample and have settled on short delay sharp roll off. The difference is subtle but I think the high end is a touch smoother and there is a bit of liquidity to the low end.


----------



## snellemin

I've always liked the headphone output of the Iphone 4s.  Audio through the BT is mediocre ofcourse.  But the through the usb it is pretty awesome with the Q5 attached.  Kinda bulky, but the 4s will not be retired anytime soon.


----------



## torifile

I’m on record as being a Bluetooth hater but I think I’m going to like the versatility of this device. I haven’t A/B tested it for myself just yet but on first listen it seems like Bluetooth won’t piss me off. And that’s a good start.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have been using Q5 with Xiaomi Mi Max 2 today. 

Not the most portable of solutions, at least I couldn't pocket it at all, but the sonic quality is nothing to joke about, plus you can drive even Beyerdynamic Amiron or LCD-MX4 with AMP5  

Totally recommended DAC/AMP  

Having the full library and especially display of Mi Max 2 (6.44"), I can see Q5 getting a lot of love for a music listening solution. Me really likes having a large screen on stuff, and this one combo is quite good at providing that


----------



## ChiHawk

bflat said:


> For Q5 settings, yes only BT, but once you select what you want, it will remain that way and you can connect via USB to play music from whatever music app you want that supports external DACs.


Omg this is me exactly.  I did read another user's posts where they said if you're using Apple Music (which I do) you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between BT and wired.  I did some very quick testing and it seemed to be true.  Even 44.1kHz FLAC's output to 48kHz PCM seemed roughly the same.  Higher bitrate and DSD were noticeably different.


----------



## ChiHawk

snellemin said:


> I've always liked the headphone output of the Iphone 4s.  Audio through the BT is mediocre ofcourse.  But the through the usb it is pretty awesome with the Q5 attached.  Kinda bulky, but the 4s will not be retired anytime soon.



You’re using the camera adapter and a standard USB a to micro-usb cable?  I was just looking for a longer cable, coming up empty, and was going to ask here. No issues with the iDevice recognizing the Q5? I’m wondering if a usb a to micro-usb adapter would work and I could use a standard lightning cable.


----------



## FiiO

torifile said:


> I got mine today. How do I change the filters? I downloaded the FiiO music app and didn’t see anything in there about filters. That said, the app needs lots of work. Not a good first impression, I’ve got to say. It’s not even optimized for the iPhone X.


Dear friend,
 After connected the Q5 to your phone via Bluetooth, you can easily set and control the Q5 through the FiiO Music App.





Best regards


----------



## hung031086

Just placed an Q5 order on amazon. Anyone know where can i get the Fiio L27 in the US ? I saw its not available on AliExpress. Need a short cable to connect Q7 and sony dap.


----------



## Immortal

Hey there!
Am5 arrived yesterday and I'm still testing it, but what a combo! I think Q5 should have been released with AM5. 

Anyway, I have a problem and I really like to know if I'm the only one here. Basically when I plug the Q5+Am5 to my computer I hear a "click" noise from the device (not through the headphones) and another "click" just a couple of seconds later. When I unplug I hear 2 fast clicks.
Further details:
-It happens every time I connect/disconnect the Q5 to my computer
-Never happened with AM3A
-The battery is fully charged
-I hear the noise whether the Q5 is plugged to the charger or not (i.e. also using the microusb on the side)
-Q5 must be turned on, if plugged when is off I hear no noise. I hear the clicks when i turn it on and was already plugged

Am I the only one?


----------



## ClassicGOD

Immortal said:


> I hear a "click" noise from the device


If I remember correctly AM5 has an output relay - it disconnects the output while the amp is powering up to prevent a loud pop that could potentially damage the headphones. Clicks you hear are normal.


----------



## snellemin

ChiHawk said:


> You’re using the camera adapter and a standard USB a to micro-usb cable?  I was just looking for a longer cable, coming up empty, and was going to ask here. No issues with the iDevice recognizing the Q5? I’m wondering if a usb a to micro-usb adapter would work and I could use a standard lightning cable.


Yup, using standard usb cable with camera kit.


----------



## Immortal

ClassicGOD said:


> If I remember correctly AM5 has an output relay - it disconnects the output while the amp is powering up to prevent a loud pop that could potentially damage the headphones. Clicks you hear are normal.


Oh, didn't read about that in the reviews so I didn't know. Thanks!


----------



## oopsydaisy

bflat said:


> Once your Q5 is connected via BT to your iPhone, look for "Q5" under settings. There you will see filter options. Once set to whatever filter you want, it will remain that way until you change it again. So you are free to use whatever music player you like best and can use the FiiO app just to make changes to the filters.



I have my Q5 connected via BT and don’t see a Q5 option in settings in Fiio app. Am I missing something? BTW, it seems this app is not compatible with iPad? Fix this please. I often edit photos on my iPad and it would be nice to have same settings available without my phone.


----------



## oopsydaisy

oopsydaisy said:


> I have my Q5 connected via BT and don’t see a Q5 option in settings in Fiio app. Am I missing something? BTW, it seems this app is not compatible with iPad? Fix this please. I often edit photos on my iPad and it would be nice to have same settings available without my phone.



Scratch that, got it working. Had to have open when pairing apparently. What is DoP switch in app?


----------



## CodyZzZ (Mar 18, 2018)

Recently got a Q5 and really loving it. It feels great in the hand with a solid build and sounds better than my X5iii. Bluetooth works well with my S8, even better than the BTR1 which had way too much hiss and noise for my Andromeda's. Pairs exceptionally well with my K5 dock at work. Kudos to Fiio for another great product. Will post a review shortly.


----------



## demond

oopsydaisy said:


> I have my Q5 connected via BT and don’t see a Q5 option in settings in Fiio app. Am I missing something? BTW, it seems this app is not compatible with iPad? Fix this please. I often edit photos on my iPad and it would be nice to have same settings available without my phone.


Please check the version of the software and upgrade it to the latest version 1.3.3.


----------



## snellemin

I paired the Q5 with the DIY E12 for more power.  The DIY has the Muses02 w/Wima cap, and the Ibasso BUF634P WB installed.  The combo has a more pleasant sound vs the AM3A(from the balanced out) driving the JVC's at moderate volume.  Was streaming flacs over BT using Foobar on the V20 phone.  


demond
can there be a firmware update to enable both the line-out and headphone-out  work at the same time?


----------



## No Deal

Has anyone here owned the Sony PHA-1A?  Can you offer an opinion on the difference between the Sony and the FiiO?


----------



## qsk78

should be a step up I think


----------



## No Deal

qsk78 said:


> should be a step up I think


I noticed that you own my current IEM (the ER4SR). Do you use it with the FiiO Q5?  Are they a good match?


----------



## Joseph Lin

snellemin said:


> I paired the Q5 with the DIY E12 for more power.  The DIY has the Muses02 w/Wima cap, and the Ibasso BUF634P WB installed.  The combo has a more pleasant sound vs the AM3A(from the balanced out) driving the JVC's at moderate volume.  Was streaming flacs over BT using Foobar on the V20 phone.
> 
> 
> demond
> can there be a firmware update to enable both the line-out and headphone-out  work at the same time?



And there is no concern of double amping?


----------



## akdms

Has anyone else had a problem connecting via bluetooth to their iPhone? I keep putting mine in pairing mode (blue / red light flashing) and my iPhone usually can't find the Q5 (it finds everything else no problem). Sometimes the Q5 will pop up, but when I try to pair the connection fails. I'm able to connect via the lightning connector, just not bluetooth. Any ideas?

Under my iPhone settings --> general --> about --> Q5 it says my firmware version is 0.4.8, which seems odd for a production model (purchased on Amazon Saturday)... Is that the latest firmware?


----------



## torifile

akdms said:


> Has anyone else had a problem connecting via bluetooth to their iPhone? I keep putting mine in pairing mode (blue / red light flashing) and my iPhone usually can't find the Q5 (it finds everything else no problem). Sometimes the Q5 will pop up, but when I try to pair the connection fails. I'm able to connect via the lightning connector, just not bluetooth. Any ideas?
> 
> Under my iPhone settings --> general --> about --> Q5 it says my firmware version is 0.4.8, which seems odd for a production model (purchased on Amazon Saturday)... Is that the latest firmware?



No problems here. I paired it once and now to reconnect after not being connected, I press and hold the play/pause button on the Q5 for a few seconds and it’s paired.


----------



## 329161

akdms said:


> Has anyone else had a problem connecting via bluetooth to their iPhone? I keep putting mine in pairing mode (blue / red light flashing) and my iPhone usually can't find the Q5 (it finds everything else no problem). Sometimes the Q5 will pop up, but when I try to pair the connection fails. I'm able to connect via the lightning connector, just not bluetooth. Any ideas?
> 
> Under my iPhone settings --> general --> about --> Q5 it says my firmware version is 0.4.8, which seems odd for a production model (purchased on Amazon Saturday)... Is that the latest firmware?


If the q5 is paired with another device, unpair it with the other device first.


----------



## tim0chan

Joseph Lin said:


> And there is no concern of double amping?


There is line out from the q5


----------



## FiiO

oopsydaisy said:


> Scratch that, got it working. Had to have open when pairing apparently. What is DoP switch in app?


Dear friend,

There are two modes of the USB output when playing DSD files: D2P (DSD to PCM) and DoP (DSD over PCM).

D2P means DSD to PCM, all DSD sources will be converted to PCM before feeding the USB output

DoP means DSD over PCM, DSD sources will be phased to fit into the PCM bit stream and transmitted thru the USB output, no decoding or conversion of DSD data at the host (DAP) side

Best regards


----------



## FiiO (Mar 21, 2018)

akdms said:


> Has anyone else had a problem connecting via bluetooth to their iPhone? I keep putting mine in pairing mode (blue / red light flashing) and my iPhone usually can't find the Q5 (it finds everything else no problem). Sometimes the Q5 will pop up, but when I try to pair the connection fails. I'm able to connect via the lightning connector, just not bluetooth. Any ideas?
> 
> Under my iPhone settings --> general --> about --> Q5 it says my firmware version is 0.4.8, which seems odd for a production model (purchased on Amazon Saturday)... Is that the latest firmware?



Dear friend,

Do you mean that the Q5 is already in pairing mode (blue / red light flashing), but your iPhone usually fail to find it from paired Bluetooth list? Try to reset the Q5 to see if it helps? How far away is your Q5 and the iPhone? Would you mind trying another mobile phone to see whether the same issue remains?

Best regards


----------



## torifile

I’m really liking the Q5. It works well and seems to have good battery life. But there is a little noise bleed at zero volume with my MD+. I can still hear music playing when it’s turned all the way down. Anyone else notice this/am I just being picky?


----------



## akdms

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Do you mean that the Q5 is already in pairing mode (blue / red light flashing), but your iPhone usually fail to find it from paired Bluetooth list? Try to reset the Q5 to see if it helps? How far away is your Q5 and the iPhone? Would you mind trying another mobile phone to see whether the same issue remains?
> 
> Best regards



Hi, yes I mean the Q5 is in pairing mode. Through the headphones I hear it say “pairing”. The iPhone does not detect the Q5 from the Bluetooth list, but does see other devices in the area. The Q5 is right next to the iPhone. I’ve tried holding the pairing button down for 5 seconds so it goes directly into pair mode and forgot previously paired phones, same result.

Again, sometimes after a while the Q5 pops up in the Bluetooth list, but when I try to pair with it my phone says it can’t. 

I’ve tried using my MacBook Pro (2018) and iPad. Same results.

Tried powering off all devices and turning them back on. Same results.


----------



## qsk78 (Mar 21, 2018)

No Deal said:


> I noticed that you own my current IEM (the ER4SR). Do you use it with the FiiO Q5?  Are they a good match?


The Q5 is on its way from the US. China was out of stock (Fiio Official , at least).
I owned the pha-1a in the past for a month or so. I assume that Q5 is a step up.
I believe that the Q5 can drive the 100 ohm 4S.


----------



## torifile

akdms said:


> Hi, yes I mean the Q5 is in pairing mode. Through the headphones I hear it say “pairing”. The iPhone does not detect the Q5 from the Bluetooth list, but does see other devices in the area. The Q5 is right next to the iPhone. I’ve tried holding the pairing button down for 5 seconds so it goes directly into pair mode and forgot previously paired phones, same result.
> 
> Again, sometimes after a while the Q5 pops up in the Bluetooth list, but when I try to pair with it my phone says it can’t.
> 
> ...


Have you tried telling your phone to forget the device and try pairing again? Once you pair it, you shouldn’t need to go back into discovery mode. You should press the play/pause button for a few seconds and it should connect immediately.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## qsk78

Hawaiibadboy said:


>



Could you please take a picture of the Q5 and Hiby R3 as a transport together (I guess you have both)? Thanks.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

qsk78 said:


> Could you please take a picture of the Q5 and Hiby R3 as a transport together (I guess you have both)? Thanks.



You said please and thanks....of course I will...tomorrow   It's 1am in Japan.


----------



## Joewoof (Mar 21, 2018)

Where do you get the latest firmware? I tried their forum but see nothing related to q5s


----------



## surfratt

How is noise/interference when using an iPhone (not on airplane mode)?  I am trying to determine what I want, this, Chord Mojo or ???.  Am concerned about the noise with the Mojo and iPhone when not in airplane mode, so if this has much less noise/interference, the Q5 might be a winner.


----------



## ChiHawk

surfratt said:


> How is noise/interference when using an iPhone (not on airplane mode)?  I am trying to determine what I want, this, Chord Mojo or ???.  Am concerned about the noise with the Mojo and iPhone when not in airplane mode, so if this has much less noise/interference, the Q5 might be a winner.


I've used mine for ~20 hours with a mixture of both Bluetooth and cabled and haven't noticed any interference from my iPhone X.


----------



## torifile (Mar 21, 2018)

surfratt said:


> How is noise/interference when using an iPhone (not on airplane mode)?  I am trying to determine what I want, this, Chord Mojo or ???.  Am concerned about the noise with the Mojo and iPhone when not in airplane mode, so if this has much less noise/interference, the Q5 might be a winner.


The mojo definitely has more interference than the Q5. I got occasional dropouts with the mojo and I have only had maybe 2 when my phone was “under load” in the hours I’ve used the Q5. 

 I’m a very picky consumer of tech and, I’ve gotta say, there’s not a lot to pick with the Q5. It’s pretty good. (Aside from the embarrassing iOS app!)


----------



## int_architect

Dobrescu George said:


> I have been using Q5 with Xiaomi Mi Max 2 today.
> 
> Not the most portable of solutions, at least I couldn't pocket it at all, but the sonic quality is nothing to joke about, plus you can drive even Beyerdynamic Amiron or LCD-MX4 with AMP5
> 
> ...





Immortal said:


> Hey there!
> Am5 arrived yesterday and I'm still testing it, but what a combo! I think Q5 should have been released with AM5.



Finally broke down and bought this yesterday. Arrived this morning and hope to have time tonight to give it a go.


----------



## Tysun

Comparison between Fiio Q5 vs Oppo HA-2SE

*Disclaimer*:
I own Oppo HA-2SE and Fiio Q5 was loaned to me in exchange for an honest review of the unit. This will not be a full review of Fiio Q5 but rather a comparison between those two dac amps as they are similarly priced.

*Phones used for assessment:*
Monoprice Monolith M1060, Philips SHP9500, Shure SRH840, Takstar Pro82, RHA T20, 1more Triple Drivers, KZ ZS6

*Source:*
Tidal HiFi and Spotify from Android to DAC/Amp via USB-C (HA2SE, Q5) or bluetooth (Q5)

*Form Factors:*
Let's start with form factors of both the devices as most of us will use DAC/Amps with our phones, DAPs or laptops while on the go hence form factor matters.

Fiio Q5: It has a very well machined brushed aluminum face and the back is covered by synthetic leather to prevent scratching when stacked against your source device which is a very nice touch and increases the 'premium' feel. Edges are beveled and they feel sharper than that of the HA2SE. Perfect resistence on the volume knob. It is shorter than HA2SE but thicker. Just imagine a thicker iPhone 5C with sharp edges.

HA2SE: It brings the leather game up a notch by having genuine leather wrapped around both front and back of the device. Volume knob is certainly more well built compared to that of Fiio - more sturdy, more clicky. Also, By being thinner and longer, the HA2SE will be less bulging and more pocketable if you decide to stack your smartphone and the DACamp together although Q5 is not far off behind.

TL;DR Form Factor Winner: HA2SE





*Features:*

HA2SE: Line in, 3.5mm Line out, micro USB in, Gain switch 3.5mm SE out, Bass boost, 4000mAh battery with power bank feature.

Q5: Optical / Coaxial / Line in, 3.5mm Line out, Gain switch, Dual micro USB in for charging and source input separately, Bass Boost, Bluetooth AptX, Balanced 2.5mm + 3.5mm SE out, DSD indicating LED, input indicating LED, swappable amp module, 3800mAh battery without power bank feature, auto idling switch off.

As you can see, Q5 definitely has longer and better list of features. I especially like the bluetooth features because when I am out and about I can leave Q5 in one pocket and my Android in another, not having a big ugly bulge while I can still enjoy close to perfect audio with my Android being free. Bluetooth has come a long way. Without having super analytical side by side A/B i really cannot tell the difference whether the source is wired or wireless. Another pro with bluetooth is that the USB ports on Q5 / phone are free and it comes in handy when one of them is low in battery. I can charge and listen to high quality audio at the same time!

Having two USB ports on Q5 is another feature which i applause much since you can use it on a desk with your phone plugged into the bottom port of Q5 and you can charge it up at the same time using the side port. Big plus!

Functions of both USB port can be swapped by software but unfortunately I am unable to test that because I dont have an iDevice on hand. Fiio, when are we getting the Android version of your app??

About that auto-iding off, I think it is a godsent. Tell me about it, there has been too many times I forgot to turn off my HA2SE and the next time I want to use it.... flat battery! No more such issue with Q5. =)

Both devices advertise iDevice compatibility hence you should not have any issues using your iDevice with them. On the other hand Android is a wild jungle that's why Fiio does not openly advertise official Android support but Q5 actually support most of the Android devices out there. With HA2SE I had trouble initially with my Nexus 6P and OnePlus 5 (both USB type C). Once connected my phones would reverse-charge the HA2SE! Irony when you know Oppo advertises it has power bank feature. The problem solved when I ordered a third party short USB C-to-micro OTG cable design to work with HA2SE then only the reverse charging stopped. WIth Q5 there is no issue when official USB C cable is used. 

TL;DR: Features Winner: Q5, by a far margin.

*Sound signatures:*

This is where anyone who reads this cares about and let me tell you, they are both really close. Differences which I am about to tell you are really minute and one will rarely notices without a thorough A/B session. Both has no problem driving all my gears with authority but then again if you look at it non of my cans are hard to drive. It is a shame my HD6xx which I joined the Drop during end of Dec 2017 is still not in my hands yet. I might give an update once I have received my pair. Both sound very neutral and bring up the characteristics of your headphones without overly emphasizing on any particular region in sound spectrum. Below I will be focusing the differences rather than similarities:

Bass Boost:
Both Fiio and Oppo do it exceptionally well with their bass boost switches. I use them to bring up the enamic bass in SHP9500 and both sounded 'right' with no leaks into the mids. They don't slow down the bass response, just the right amount of bass bump. Good work there. I leave the switches off for most of my other cans most of the time except when I'm listening to EDM (DeadMau5, Zomboy, Skrillex etc) and want that extra push in bass section.

HA2SE:
Power: 220mW/32ohm SE.
In short, its sound signature is neutral to slightly bright. Symbals, synthetics snaps etc sound more forward and because of this, there is a perception of more details and stage coming from this DACamp. It will shine if it is paired with darker pair of cans.

Q5:
Power: 150mW/32ohm SE, 400mW/32ohm balanced.
Isn't balanced the 'in' word nowadays? with balanced 2.5mm HP out one can definitely note the power increase compared to HA2SE or its own SE out. I managed to get balanced cables for my M1060 and ZS6 and they both performed well in balanced. It is quite impossible to A/B balanced vs. SE because of volume discrepancy after switching outputs so i will be conservative and say maybe there is not much perceivable differences besides volume increase. I will not switch back to SE though, if you ask me. (for the bragging rights!)

Where Q5 shines over HA2SE is in the mids. Vocals and real instruments sound more 'natural' 
and 'organic'. HA2SE is nowhere bad, but in comparison it sounded more 'cold', 'synthetic' and 'robotic'. Don't get me wrong, these are only in relative terms. Possibly this is due to what everyone is calling "Sabre Glare"? In short, Q5 is neutral to slightly warm/smooth in comparison.

TL;DR:
HA2SE neutral to slightly bright.
Q5 neutral to slightly warm and smooth

*Price points:*

Q5 $350usd vs. HA2SE $310usd
Is Q5 worth the $40 extra? YES, a big yes, for the extra features it offers over HA2SE alone is already worth more than $40. Nice and natural vocal presentations are big bonus.

*Why choose HA2SE: *Form factor (prettier!), sleeker while stacked, for those who don't care about Coax/optical/BT inputs, no hard to drive cans to pair with, and no cans with balanced cables.

*Why choose Q5:* More options, freedom of BT AptX, transforming your analog cans into BT cans, more power to push higher resistance cans, stepping into balanced game.

P/S: Regardless which amp you get, get Fixate gel pad to stack them. This is a much more elegant solution compared to rubber bands or Blue Tac.



That's all I want to say regarding Q5 vs HA2SE. Hope it can help someone out there to make a purchase decision. Thank you! =)


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

qsk78 said:


> Could you please take a picture of the Q5 and Hiby R3 as a transport together (I guess you have both)? Thanks.


----------



## qsk78

Thank you. Look good together )


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

qsk78 said:


> Thank you. Look good together )



Be careful how you stack them. The R3 is a glass back and will likely fracture if too much stress is put in it via bonding. Pota pita or something like that would work good


----------



## qsk78

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Be careful how you stack them. The R3 is a glass back and will likely fracture if too much stress is put in it via bonding. Pota pita or something like that would work good


I hope that Hiby will offer a simple cover/case for the R3. 
Yes, pota pita I used in the past - nice stuff.


----------



## Hoax86

Hi guys,
I was wondering what the pros and cons are of having a smartphone and DAC vs a dap?

Also, would anyone have a comparison of the q5 vs the cayin N5ii in terms of sound quality?


----------



## qsk78 (Mar 23, 2018)

Hoax86 said:


> Hi guys,
> I was wondering what the pros and cons are of having a smartphone and DAC vs a dap?


 Well, to me the reason is better sound quality in the same price niche in general.
I still consider my Master (MSRP ~$1450) is having better SQ than any DAP on the market today if you pair it with a 1-2 driver BA or low impedance multidriver. I could not find anything close, at least. It also works perfectly as a DAC/Preamp in parallel.


----------



## FiiO

akdms said:


> Hi, yes I mean the Q5 is in pairing mode. Through the headphones I hear it say “pairing”. The iPhone does not detect the Q5 from the Bluetooth list, but does see other devices in the area. The Q5 is right next to the iPhone. I’ve tried holding the pairing button down for 5 seconds so it goes directly into pair mode and forgot previously paired phones, same result.
> 
> Again, sometimes after a while the Q5 pops up in the Bluetooth list, but when I try to pair with it my phone says it can’t.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

After pairing the Q5 for the first time, would it shows at paired devices list in your iPhone? If yes, you could hold the pairing button for 2s to turn on the Bluetooh in the Q5 first(Blue light shows up), then choose the Q5 from paired list to see if it helps?

Best regards


----------



## akdms

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> After pairing the Q5 for the first time, would it shows at paired devices list in your iPhone? If yes, you could hold the pairing button for 2s to turn on the Bluetooh in the Q5 first(Blue light shows up), then choose the Q5 from paired list to see if it helps?
> 
> Best regards



Hi — it’s not in the list of paired devices on my iPhone. Every time I try to pair with my phone, my phone says pairing failed so it does not save to list of paired devices. 

Holding the Bluetooth button on the Q5 for only two seconds causes the blue light to start flashing. After maybe 5 or 10 more seconds (of not holding the button) the Q5 switches into pairing mode (blue/red light). 

It’s sounds like I probably need to send it back to Amazon for a replacement.


----------



## Slashn77

Is this going to be a worthy upgrade from my creative sound blaster e3?
I use Bluetooth only and wasn’t into audio when I got it but 4 years later it  is coming in handy because it has a notable improvement over my iPhone 7. 
I really only wanted to spend $200-$250 for a portable dac/amp with Bluetooth and this is $350 so it would have to be a very noticeable upgrade. I cannot find any portable dac/amp under $250 with the Bluetooth feature that’s an upgrade from my $100 E3.
I do not like stacking and do not need balanced or more power since I use it for my Campfire Lyra II and UE900s which I use around the house and the grocery store/road trips/dog walks daily which is why I don’t want to stack and need Bluetooth


----------



## willywill

Slashn77 said:


> Is this going to be a worthy upgrade from my creative sound blaster e3?
> I use Bluetooth only and wasn’t into audio when I got it but 4 years later it  is coming in handy because it has a notable improvement over my iPhone 7.
> I really only wanted to spend $200-$250 for a portable dac/amp with Bluetooth and this is $350 so it would have to be a very noticeable upgrade. I cannot find any portable dac/amp under $250 with the Bluetooth feature that’s an upgrade from my $100 E3.
> I do not like stacking and do not need balanced or more power since I use it for my Campfire Lyra II and UE900s which I use around the house and the grocery store/road trips/dog walks daily which is why I don’t want to stack and need Bluetooth



I see Creative Sound as a gaming company, that's just me but if the Q5 is expensive There the A&K XB10
https://www.amazon.com/Astell-Kern-Portable-Bluetooth-Amplifier/dp/B01M0PDYF4

and this, here a review against each other- https://www.ebay.com/p/Nexum-Aqua-W.../5010537221?var=552426272423&iid=253283424315
https://www.ebay.com/p/Nexum-Aqua-W.../5010537221?var=552426272423&iid=253283424315


----------



## oopsydaisy

I’ve had my Q5 for about a week now and just wanted to give my impressions so far. I tried it with my SE535s (Red), Edition 8, and LCD-2 (Rev 2). I’ve tried both Bluetooth and wired to my iPhone 7 with lightning cable. Both connections sound pretty similar, IMO. I’m playing mostly ALAC files, so YMMV. Best pairing is actually the LCD-2, to my surprise. Worst pairing is the Edition 8, which in a way, does not surprise me.

I use the high gain for the LCD-2, maybe I should try the same with Edition 8. I’m at pretty much 12 o’clock with LCD-2. I’m at about 11-11:30 on the 535s, but on low gain.

I listen to mostly pop, rock and R&B, with a sprinkling of almost everything else. I find the strength of this unit to be the vocals, which is of utmost importance to me. The bass on the 535s does slightly bleed into the mids, which isn’t ideal, but not a deal breaker. I need to give another listen with the Edition 8s, but I found the treble to be a little too bright on them.

The LCD-2 sounds just right and very close, if not a little recessed, compared to my desktop setup of Violectric V200 + Yulong D100. On that setup, I’m usually at 11 o’clock with the LCDs. Pretty impressive.

Overall, I’d have to say I’m very happy with the Q5. I would like the app to be available for iPad. The price and ability to easily connect to my iDevices sold it for me, along with the excellent sound, of course. If you’re in nyc, I recommend you check it out at Audio46 in Manhattan. They have a bunch of stuff to audition and the people are cool.


----------



## 325xia

Hello,

I’ve had my Fiio Q5 for just over a week. Really enjoying it with my Shure SE 846’s. Curious what everyone is getting on battery life. Bluetooth, or Direct Connection. Thanks I n advance for any input. 

Michael


----------



## RPL88 (Mar 24, 2018)

Is there any chance Fiio will ever release this in a different color, say black? I have E17k Alpen 2 and I would be excited to purchase a Q5 but find the dark grey just blah, and things like that kinda matter to me. I was looking into a HA 2 SE for the form factor, leather, quality and style but am enticed obviously by bluetooth, power and compatibility of Q5.


----------



## qsk78

RPL88 said:


> Is there any chance Fiio will ever release this in a different color, say black?


 The original case is black))


----------



## neogeosnk

Is there a case for the Q5?  I don’t want to beat it up.


----------



## qsk78

neogeosnk said:


> Is there a case for the Q5?  I don’t want to beat it up.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## neogeosnk

Where do I get this black case?


----------



## RPL88

qsk78 said:


>


That looks nice! Even a slit for the LED I gather. I'm gonna have to go look up some reviews. I think this might seal the deal for me depending on price. Thanks!


----------



## masterllama

neogeosnk said:


> Where do I get this black case?



You can order from aliexpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Leather-case-for-FiiO-DSD-Amplifier-DAC-Q5/32850832785.html


----------



## masterllama

I just returned my Oppo HA-2SE because it kept cutting audio off my iPhone X, and I just received my Fiio Q5.

So far I'm really liking the Q5. It sounds great and doesn't cut audio from my iPhone X. I expected to only use the usb cable, but I'm using bluetooth more and more just because of the convenience. 

A few questions regarding bluetooth: does the Q5 support AAC bluetooth? I don't see it listed anywhere on the spec sheets but people seem to be saying it does in this thread. I use 320 kbit MP3 and 256 kbit AAC files on my iPhone, and from my AB testing, I cannot tell a drop in quality using bluetooth. This is a huge contrast from my car, where the bluetooth audio really sounds compressed.

Do MP3 files also play using AAC bluetooth? From what I read online, it looks like the phone encodes all audio to AAC on the fly?


----------



## bflat

masterllama said:


> I just returned my Oppo HA-2SE because it kept cutting audio off my iPhone X, and I just received my Fiio Q5.
> 
> So far I'm really liking the Q5. It sounds great and doesn't cut audio from my iPhone X. I expected to only use the usb cable, but I'm using bluetooth more and more just because of the convenience.
> 
> ...



yes, Q5 supports AAC codec. It should also support MP3, but would need the Fiio rep to confirm since they only specify SBC which can support MP3. Assuming yes, the Q5 internal design is such that BT and USB audio quality is no different for lossy music tracks like AAC and MP3.


----------



## torifile

masterllama said:


> I just returned my Oppo HA-2SE because it kept cutting audio off my iPhone X, and I just received my Fiio Q5.
> 
> So far I'm really liking the Q5. It sounds great and doesn't cut audio from my iPhone X. I expected to only use the usb cable, but I'm using bluetooth more and more just because of the convenience.
> 
> ...



I could have written the first part of that post! That is my experience, too. 

As for the second part - does it really matter? If you can’t tell the difference, why worry about it?


----------



## masterllama (Mar 26, 2018)

torifile said:


> I could have written the first part of that post! That is my experience, too.
> 
> As for the second part - does it really matter? If you can’t tell the difference, why worry about it?


I agree, I am planning to continue to use Bluetooth either way, but it is always good to know what is going on underneath the hood.

I did some Googling, and it appears that the iPhone will encode everything to AAC when using AAC bluetooth, and this includes all system sounds as well as MP3 files.

I confirmed this by testing in the console as shown in this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...n-ios-device-and-bluetooth-headphones.835289/

Even when I play MP3 files, it appears the higher quality AAC bluetooth code is used instead of SBC.

This is really great news and it means that I will pretty much only use Bluetooth instead of the USB cable. It confirms my experience that the quality between Bluetooth and USB is roughly the same on the iPhone.


----------



## torifile

masterllama said:


> I agree, I am planning to continue to use Bluetooth either way, but it is always good to know what is going on underneath the hood.
> 
> I did some Googling, and it appears that the iPhone will encode everything to AAC when using AAC bluetooth, and this includes all system sounds as well as MP3 files.
> 
> ...



Good info. My impressions just from listening to music over Bluetooth on the Q5 was that it is far better than the Bluetooth audio I’m used to. Glad to see that there’s some confirmation of that impression. 

Do you know how AAC Bluetooth compares to lightning audio output?


----------



## masterllama

torifile said:


> Good info. My impressions just from listening to music over Bluetooth on the Q5 was that it is far better than the Bluetooth audio I’m used to. Glad to see that there’s some confirmation of that impression.
> 
> Do you know how AAC Bluetooth compares to lightning audio output?



AAC Bluetooth is lossy while the wired audio output is completely lossless. However, the lossless doesn't really matter if you're feeding it lossy files (AAC or MP3 files on your iPhone).

I would say if you're using lossy files, then you will be hard pressed to notice any difference between the two. If you are using lossless files on your iPhone (like FLAC or WAV), then you may notice the lossy compression, but for 99% of users, I would say the difference is not noticeable.


----------



## ChiHawk

masterllama said:


> AAC Bluetooth is lossy while the wired audio output is completely lossless. However, the lossless doesn't really matter if you're feeding it lossy files (AAC or MP3 files on your iPhone).
> 
> I would say if you're using lossy files, then you will be hard pressed to notice any difference between the two. If you are using lossless files on your iPhone (like FLAC or WAV), then you may notice the lossy compression, but for 99% of users, I would say the difference is not noticeable.


This is my experience as well.  Like a lot of people are saying, the bluetooth is good enough to actually use which is a huge surprise to me.  When using Apple Music, I cannot tell the difference between it wired or wireless.  I also have a lot of 44.1kHz FLAC's which output to 44.1kHz PCM and I again, I cannot tell the difference.  Anything higher bitrate, or DSD, is noticeable.


----------



## torifile

ChiHawk said:


> This is my experience as well.  Like a lot of people are saying, the bluetooth is good enough to actually use which is a huge surprise to me.  When using Apple Music, I cannot tell the difference between it wired or wireless.  I also have a lot of 44.1kHz FLAC's which output to 44.1kHz PCM and I again, I cannot tell the difference.  Anything higher bitrate, or DSD, is noticeable.



I’m using all 3 of the streaming services. Of those, only Tidal has FLAC. So I guess if I’m using either Apple Music or Spotify, Bluetooth will be what I use and if I’m using Tidal, I’ll be inclined to go wired.


----------



## FiiO

akdms said:


> Hi — it’s not in the list of paired devices on my iPhone. Every time I try to pair with my phone, my phone says pairing failed so it does not save to list of paired devices.
> 
> Holding the Bluetooth button on the Q5 for only two seconds causes the blue light to start flashing. After maybe 5 or 10 more seconds (of not holding the button) the Q5 switches into pairing mode (blue/red light).
> 
> It’s sounds like I probably need to send it back to Amazon for a replacement.


Dear friend,

Seems something wrong with the Bluetooth of the Q5. If the same issue appear in another mobile phone as well, you could try to contact your seller about that for help. Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

I have been using Bluetooth for years and have consistently been very pleased with the sound quality possible. There are times I doubt whether or not I could spot the difference between a solid apt X and transmission and wired.


----------



## 325xia

I find there is definitely a difference between lossless with direct connect and Bluetooth on the Q5. When I want the convenience, I go Bluetooth. But for criical list3ning I maintain that direct connect is the preferred way to listen to lossless. That’s the best thing about the Q5...the versatility.


----------



## torifile

325xia said:


> I find there is definitely a difference between lossless with direct connect and Bluetooth on the Q5. When I want the convenience, I go Bluetooth. But for criical list3ning I maintain that direct connect is the preferred way to listen to lossless. That’s the best thing about the Q5...the versatility.


I agree. Having options that don’t compromise too much is great. The Q5 is a very nice little device!


----------



## franz12

Finally gave in and placed an order. Couldn't resist its bluetooth functionality. Hope to hear soon.


----------



## torifile

franz12 said:


> Finally gave in and placed an order. Couldn't resist its bluetooth functionality. Hope to hear soon.


You won’t be disappointed. Its Bluetooth implementation is flawless. I’ve never had a skip and it sounds fantastic.


----------



## torifile

I will say I have had one disappointment with the Q5 - it can’t drive my 650’s all that well. Even on high gain, turning it all the way up, it’s not quite there. They are 300 ohm impedance so I understand why but just in  case anyone was wondering. 

I’ve decided I’m going all IEM now anyway so it’s no big deal to me. I’m sure if I had a balanced cable, it’d be sufficient.


----------



## tim0chan

torifile said:


> I will say I have had one disappointment with the Q5 - it can’t drive my 650’s all that well. Even on high gain, turning it all the way up, it’s not quite there. They are 300 ohm impedance so I understand why but just in  case anyone was wondering.
> 
> I’ve decided I’m going all IEM now anyway so it’s no big deal to me. I’m sure if I had a balanced cable, it’d be sufficient.


Maybe get amp5?


----------



## franz12 (Apr 6, 2018)

torifile said:


> I will say I have had one disappointment with the Q5 - it can’t drive my 650’s all that well. Even on high gain, turning it all the way up, it’s not quite there. They are 300 ohm impedance so I understand why but just in  case anyone was wondering.
> 
> I’ve decided I’m going all IEM now anyway so it’s no big deal to me. I’m sure if I had a balanced cable, it’d be sufficient.



Yes, that was my concern. It only puts 150m at 32ohms, though a balanced output is much more powerful (I owned OPPO HA-2, and it puts 220m at 32ohms). My Oppo HA-2 barely drove hd800s, so it's not surprising it can't drive hd650.

Balanced cables all the way for future purchases.


----------



## torifile (Mar 28, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> Maybe get amp5?


That’s not a bad suggestion. If I decide to keep the 650s, I’ll look into it. Since getting the Q5, I haven’t used my Jotunheim once so it’s either that, get a balanced cable for the 650 or sell them.


----------



## franz12

Is AMP5 more powerful for a unbalanced output? I hope Q5 can drive my ether c flow, though I don't have a balanced cable.

No plan to use IEMs with it, because I am pretty much satisfied with Airpods and no plan to buy any other IEMs for now. I am afraid that I might need to sell Q5 if it doesn't do a good job driving my ether.


----------



## tim0chan

franz12 said:


> Is AMP5 more powerful for a unbalanced output? I hope Q5 can drive my ether c flow, though I don't have a balanced cable.
> 
> No plan to use IEMs with it, because I am pretty much satisfied with Airpods and no plan to buy any other IEMs for now. I am afraid that I might need to sell Q5 if it doesn't do a good job driving my ether.


Yes, amp 5 will do the trick, but Seriously?? Airpods.....? There's a whole world out the to see lmao.


----------



## franz12

tim0chan said:


> Yes, amp 5 will do the trick, but Seriously?? Airpods.....? There's a whole world out the to see lmao.



Have you tried Airpods? I a/bed against multiple IEMs in the $200-$300 range + IE800, but IMO, all of them failed to win my headtime against airpods.

Going from IE800 to HD800S or Clear made a huge difference in SQ. But I didn't feel such difference when I went from Airpods to noble x, ie800, bose and blah... Many times Airpods were even superior than them. Small improvement in SQ at best.
Since then, I use IEMs for more convenience and headphones for more serious listening sessions.


----------



## tim0chan

franz12 said:


> Have you tried Airpods? I a/bed against multiple IEMs in the $200-$300 range + IE800, but IMO, all of them failed to win my headtime against airpods.
> 
> Going from IE800 to HD800S or Clear made a huge difference in SQ. But I didn't feel such difference when I went from Airpods to noble x, ie800, bose and blah... Many times Airpods were even superior than them. Small improvement in SQ at best.
> Since then, I use IEMs for more convenience and headphones for more serious listening sessions.


Fair enough, I use my ciems with a Bluetooth receiver on the go and a proper DAC when stationary


----------



## FiiO

franz12 said:


> Finally gave in and placed an order. Couldn't resist its bluetooth functionality. Hope to hear soon.


Hope the Q5 can meet your need.

Best regards


----------



## 325xia

franz12 said:


> Have you tried Airpods? I a/bed against multiple IEMs in the $200-$300 range + IE800, but IMO, all of them failed to win my headtime against airpods.
> 
> Going from IE800 to HD800S or Clear made a huge difference in SQ. But I didn't feel such difference when I went from Airpods to noble x, ie800, bose and blah... Many times Airpods were even superior than them. Small improvement in SQ at best.
> Since then, I use IEMs for more convenience and headphones for more serious listening sessions.



So how do you use AirPods with the Q5? The Q5 is not a Bluetooth transmitter. Receiver only.


----------



## snellemin (Mar 28, 2018)

I've been playing DSD's files and after 30 minutes or so the unit shuts down.  Doesn't happen in any other play mode.  Sup with that?


----------



## CodyZzZ

Really enjoying this at work.


----------



## FiiO

snellemin said:


> I've been playing DSD's files and after 30 minutes or so the unit shuts down.  Doesn't happen in any other play mode.  Sup with that?


Dear friend,

What's the idle poweroff you set for the Q5?

Best regards


----------



## ChiHawk

As an FYI, I was looking for a longer Lightning cable and coming up short (ba-dum-bum).  I tried a USB to micro-USB converter with an Apple Lightning cable with no luck.  I broke down and bought the $30 Lightning to USB camera adapter and it works like a charm but it looks like the Q5 will sip power from the iDevice; when powered off and connected to my iPhone, the pulsing, red charge indicator comes on.  This isn't an issue for me; I'm just happy to have a longer cable, even if it was $30.


----------



## snellemin

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> What's the idle poweroff you set for the Q5?
> 
> Best regards



 Time out is set at 30 minutes.  Yesterday it was shutting down after 5 songs or so.  Today I've been playing internet radio for 6 hours through the usb port and it hasn't shut down at all.  I haven't done DSD today.

I did get the Fiio leather case today and it fits nicely.


----------



## masterllama

ChiHawk said:


> As an FYI, I was looking for a longer Lightning cable and coming up short (ba-dum-bum).  I tried a USB to micro-USB converter with an Apple Lightning cable with no luck.  I broke down and bought the $30 Lightning to USB camera adapter and it works like a charm but it looks like the Q5 will sip power from the iDevice; when powered off and connected to my iPhone, the pulsing, red charge indicator comes on.  This isn't an issue for me; I'm just happy to have a longer cable, even if it was $30.



This is really annoying. I'm also looking for a longer cable. It was simple with the Oppo HA-2SE because of the standard USB type A port, but its much harder with the FiiO.

I ordered a bunch of OTG micro usb to micro usb cables, adapters, etc. from Amazon but none of them worked with the FiiO + iPhone. I don't want to use the camera adapter, especially if it saps battery. I would buy a longer FiiO cable, but they don't offer one. Pretty frustrating...


----------



## ClassicGOD (Mar 30, 2018)

masterllama said:


> I don't want to use the camera adapter, especially if it saps battery. I would buy a longer FiiO cable, but they don't offer one. Pretty frustrating...


Just get an Lightning extension cable (there are a few options on Amazon and AliExpress) and use it with the included adapter. Micro USB extensions are cheaper but will probably won't work as Q5 requires pin 5 of the MicroUSB connector to be grounded or connected do the Accessory line of the Lightning connector to disable charging ( https://www.facebook.com/notes/fiio...ut-fiio-flagship-dac-amp-q5/1693832937340899/ ) and normal MicroUSB extensions just carry power and 2 data lines leaving pin 5 floating.

Once my Q5 gets back to me from RMA I'm going to test 2 more possibilities for a longer cable (if anyone can test them sooner please post your results here  ):

Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter connected via custom made MicroUSB cable that has the pin 5 shorted to the ground.
Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter connected via USB A to A cable to MicroUSB OTG adapter (if I'm not mistaken most OTG adapters have pin 5 shorted to ground)
PS. there are also cables like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mee...ad-iPod-Chord-Mojo-Hugo-Pha3/32856542392.html that claim to work with FiiO Q1 and other DACs - maybe they are worth a try? They specifically claim the cable uses MicroUSB type-B OTG connector which is a good sign.


----------



## ChiHawk

ClassicGOD said:


> Just get an Lightning extension cable


I had no idea this trickery existed!  This is certainly a cheaper solution than the Camera adapter.  Also, I forgot about Aliexpress so I didn't check there for Lightning to micro-USB cables.


----------



## snellemin

Did a reset on the Q5 and now the unit doesn't shut down before the half hour limit when playing dsd through it.


----------



## Joewoof

Why did you have to RMA yours?


----------



## ClassicGOD

Joewoof said:


> Why did you have to RMA yours?


Corrupted audio over Optical Input.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 2, 2018)

Got my Q5 today
Not bad at all. Can not compete with Master though but Master is 4 times more expensive)


----------



## masterllama

ClassicGOD said:


> Just get an Lightning extension cable (there are a few options on Amazon and AliExpress) and use it with the included adapter. Micro USB extensions are cheaper but will probably won't work as Q5 requires pin 5 of the MicroUSB connector to be grounded or connected do the Accessory line of the Lightning connector to disable charging ( https://www.facebook.com/notes/fiio...ut-fiio-flagship-dac-amp-q5/1693832937340899/ ) and normal MicroUSB extensions just carry power and 2 data lines leaving pin 5 floating.
> 
> Once my Q5 gets back to me from RMA I'm going to test 2 more possibilities for a longer cable (if anyone can test them sooner please post your results here  ):
> 
> ...



Some really good ideas in here, thanks for the info!


----------



## FiiO

ChiHawk said:


> As an FYI, I was looking for a longer Lightning cable and coming up short (ba-dum-bum).  I tried a USB to micro-USB converter with an Apple Lightning cable with no luck.  I broke down and bought the $30 Lightning to USB camera adapter and it works like a charm but it looks like the Q5 will sip power from the iDevice; when powered off and connected to my iPhone, the pulsing, red charge indicator comes on.  This isn't an issue for me; I'm just happy to have a longer cable, even if it was $30.


Dear friend,

Maybe can this 50cm one meet your need. It is supplied by one of our agent. If you would need, you could send email to wang@ddhifi.com about that. 

Best regards


----------



## qsk78

Well,  I don't really know why the Q5 did not perform perfectly from the iphone as a source but once connected via optical input everything significantly changed in a good way – with the S-EM6 v2 I get much tighter and faster bass response plus the soundstage now is much deeper than it was with iphone connected via a supplied cable..


----------



## snellemin

qsk78 said:


> Well,  I don't really know why the Q5 did not perform perfectly from the iphone as a source but once connected via optical input everything significantly changed in a good way – with the S-EM6 v2 I get much tighter and faster bass response plus the soundstage now is much deeper than it was with iphone connected via a supplied cable..


I have the same experience with that supplied cable.  It's no good.


----------



## qsk78

snellemin said:


> I have the same experience with that supplied cable.  It's no good.


Any idea about a better one?


----------



## snellemin

qsk78 said:


> Any idea about a better one?


Nope.  I just use bluetooth. 
I use the LGV20 with an USB C Ebay cable for DSD music.  I dropped the apple phone for DSD purposes.
I use a cheapy Amazon USB C cable for DSD playing through PC.  The sound just sounds "weird" playing through the supplied apple cable.  The other cheapy cables don't effect my music like the fiio cable does.  Could be "defective" .


----------



## qsk78

I just made an experiment. I took Apple camera connection kit and using just a good usb-to microusb cable connected to the Q5 - sounds good as it should.


----------



## snellemin

qsk78 said:


> I just made an experiment. I took Apple camera connection kit and using just a good usb-to microusb cable connected to the Q5 - sounds good as it should.


Agreed.  Through the camera kit, the audio is perfect.


----------



## qsk78

So Fiio we need a better cable!)


----------



## franz12

The package just delivered. Build quality seems very good. I am impressed. Time to listen.


----------



## Hoax86

Hi guys, 
Lots of great advice for ios cables!

Can anyone recommend a cheap micro use b to micro use b otg cable I can use for my android phone. I live in Australia so must ship overseas.

Is it true I need an otg cable to utilise Uapp between android and Q5?

Thanks for your help


----------



## franz12

I spent a few hours listening to q5. It looks a definite step up from Oppo HA-2 which I owned. It is small enough to put it my pocket. The connection with my IPhone 7 plus and Macbook pro is seamless. The bluetooth connection is fully functional and strong, and I haven't felt any sonic degradation. 

I also did some A/B to see how much it can hold against my desktop setup (Hugo + MCTH). I use Apple music as a streaming service. Overall, I still prefer sound coming from my full desktop setup, but the Q5 is not too far below.

1. Fiio vs Hugo as a standalone dac. Both of them are connected to MCTH.
    Hugo has a cleaner sound and better imaging abilities. Also, it retains more treble details. The Q5 is enjoyable on its own way. Both of them are pretty good overall.
2. Fiio vs Hugo + MCTH.
    MCTH opens up soundstage further. Better dynamics+imaging. The desktop setup seems to be better in every aspect. As expected, the difference is larger compared to the previous one.

Overall, I am pretty happy with my Q5. It satisfies my expectation as a portable device. Also, an amp power is better than I thought. It can drive my ether c flow at 12 o'clock (unbalanced), and I rarely go over it. 
I think this product can benefit people particularly who wish to wander around with their headphones.


----------



## KaiFi

Still wondering about the other amp modules. Do you think it would be worth it to get the Q5 with the AM5? Or maybe the AM2A?

I guess it's hard to say without comparing them directly. I like the idea of the AM5 because it has more power and maybe could approach the sound/power of a desktop amp. But then we're talking $450 to spend...at that point it's approaching the Mojo.


----------



## tim0chan

KaiFi said:


> Still wondering about the other amp modules. Do you think it would be worth it to get the Q5 with the AM5? Or maybe the AM2A?
> 
> I guess it's hard to say without comparing them directly. I like the idea of the AM5 because it has more power and maybe could approach the sound/power of a desktop amp. But then we're talking $450 to spend...at that point it's approaching the Mojo.


Then again it's kinda like having .the mojo and the poly in 1package


----------



## snellemin (Apr 1, 2018)

Talking about other amp modules.  I cracked open the AM3A.  Looks like I'll be swapping out opamps starting Monday.


----------



## qsk78

to Fiio:

Any chance to make the remote controller RM1 work with the Q5?
 Would be very convenient!


----------



## ClassicGOD

qsk78 said:


> to Fiio:
> 
> Any chance to make the remote controller RM1 work with the Q5?
> Would be very convenient!


Why? RM1 controls the transport - just pair it with your source (like your phone) and use it.


----------



## Duncan

So, received my Q5 today, and running my AK T8ie mkII via balanced sounds great (via Bluetooth to my S9+), however - (and it's probably because I'm on iOS beta programme), when connecting to my iPhone X with the included cable, the Q5 connects, and I can play music, which is great, but - the FiiO controller app doesn't work (says connect cable)…

Is there another way to adjust the filters and time out timer, or - am I a bit high and dry?

Thanks


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 1, 2018)

ClassicGOD said:


> Why? RM1 controls the transport - just pair it with your source (like your phone) and use it.


Well, the only function I would control directly is Volume. It is clear that you can not control the rest since this is on the transport side.)
The RM1 controls the transport on Android and iOS only. And you can not control Volume anyway.


----------



## Duncan

I can tell straight away that the Q5 marries oh so well with the AK T8ie mkII balanced...  

Not very often I admit to being wrong, however for the past couple of weeks I've been very happy with the T8s straight out of the Galaxy S9+, and came into this a bit cynically, merely wanting to test the balanced cable, well, very happy that I did...

Will relay to others, despite the naysayers saying that AptX HD should have been implemented, that even standards AptX sounds sublime, and far exceeds my misconceived idea of Bluetooth audio quality.

Glad that I chose the Q5 rather than the Q1mkII that I was originally looking at, money well spent.

Thank you FiiO!

(Hopefully an updated controller app will fix my issues with playing with the filters!)


----------



## ClassicGOD (Apr 1, 2018)

qsk78 said:


> Well, the only function I would control directly is Volume. It is clear that you can not control the rest since this is on the transport side.)
> The RM1 controls the transport on Android and iOS only. And you can not control Volume anyway.


The issue is that the volume in Q5 is tied to the reading of the potentiometer position and the BT module is not general purpose BT chip, it's a media client oriented one. Not to mention that implementation of the BT module in Q5 is far from typical.

Making it possible to change volume via BT controls would not only require custom BT firmware (and we aren't even sure if it can handle something like this) but it would also introduce a risk of sudden volume increases (when you had the potentiometer set high, then lowered the volume by BT controls you would get sudden volume jump if you used the potentiometer again).

Making the volume control another separate layer (to prevent volume level issues described above) would just introduce all the issues related to digital volume control that FiiO tried to avoid by using purpose-built resistor ladder volume control chip.

I just don't see how it would be feasible.


----------



## torifile

Duncan said:


> So, received my Q5 today, and running my AK T8ie mkII via balanced sounds great (via Bluetooth to my S9+), however - (and it's probably because I'm on iOS beta programme), when connecting to my iPhone X with the included cable, the Q5 connects, and I can play music, which is great, but - the FiiO controller app doesn't work (says connect cable)…
> 
> Is there another way to adjust the filters and time out timer, or - am I a bit high and dry?
> 
> Thanks


You can only make adjustments to the Q5’s settings when you’re connected via Bluetooth. It’s a weird limitation but it is what it is.


----------



## Duncan

torifile said:


> You can only make adjustments to the Q5’s settings when you’re connected via Bluetooth. It’s a weird limitation but it is what it is.


You are a diamond 

Thank You!

Time to play


----------



## FiiO

Duncan said:


> So, received my Q5 today, and running my AK T8ie mkII via balanced sounds great (via Bluetooth to my S9+), however - (and it's probably because I'm on iOS beta programme), when connecting to my iPhone X with the included cable, the Q5 connects, and I can play music, which is great, but - the FiiO controller app doesn't work (says connect cable)…
> 
> Is there another way to adjust the filters and time out timer, or - am I a bit high and dry?
> 
> Thanks


Dear friend,

The FiiO controler APP is used for our i1 only. So it is not compatible with the Q5.
If you would like to set the functions for the Q5, you would need connect the Q5 to your iPhone via Bluetooth and use the ios FiiO Music instead.





Best regards


----------



## FiiO

snellemin said:


> I have the same experience with that supplied cable.  It's no good.


Dear friend,

Thanks for your kind feedback. We will report to our engineer about that issue and try to improve this. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards


----------



## Duncan

I am really genuinely happy with the Q5, loving the direction the brand is going in, looking forward to investing further into the Fiio ecosystem.

The layering / texturing / tonality available has me listening to my music all over again, and considering some of the crazy gear I have, that is a very large positive! - oh, and totally rock solid Bluetooth - not had a dropout yet, which is a first, generally I hate BT for the dropouts, so - this is an extra pleasant surprise.

There is only one tiny thing, the FiiO app seems to be reporting my battery level incorrectly, if that can be tweaked in an update (whether software of firmware) that would be absolutely amazing!

Absolutely amazing synergy with the AK T8ie mkII - never heard portable audio this good (even my much more expensive combinations)- sounds much more like a full sized / mains powered rig than it ever has a right to!

Happy to field any questions from potential buyers


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 2, 2018)

After three days of a serious listening (balanced output only) I can admit that this device is just great in terms of Customer Value (performance / price).
Agree with all the above mentioned statements about the sound. Very good synergy with my french 6 driver IEM). Great job Fiio!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## Duncan

Hawaiibadboy said:


>


What app is that @Hawaiibadboy ?


----------



## surfratt

Duncan said:


> What app is that @Hawaiibadboy ?



KaiserTone


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Duncan said:


> What app is that @Hawaiibadboy ?



Yup Kaisertone.

Best sounding app I have heard. Best EQ on app market too. Minute control of volume and 30 band EQ....just awesome. Wish they had an Android version


----------



## FiiO

Duncan said:


> I am really genuinely happy with the Q5, loving the direction the brand is going in, looking forward to investing further into the Fiio ecosystem.
> 
> The layering / texturing / tonality available has me listening to my music all over again, and considering some of the crazy gear I have, that is a very large positive! - oh, and totally rock solid Bluetooth - not had a dropout yet, which is a first, generally I hate BT for the dropouts, so - this is an extra pleasant surprise.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Because of the low precision of bluetooth electricity meter, it can indicate its approximate quantity of the battery which can still meet the daily using. Most Bluetooth devices in the market are also with low precision.

Best regards


----------



## svmusa

My source is Chromebook and Windows laptops. I have Bluetooth headphones that are directly paired with them and have been using chrome browser extension app to EQ them to my needs.

I do have wired full size headphones and hoping perhaps Q5 can be one portable solution to drive both of these phones.

Assuming if I pair Q5 with these sources via Bluetooth:

1>    Can I use my chrome browser extensions or third party apps to EQ Q5?

2>    Can I pair my Bluetooth headphones to Q5 rather than my above sources?


----------



## Duncan

I can only answer number 2, that the BT on the Q5 is inbound only, not a transmitter...


----------



## jonmbarlow

Does this connect to Sony NW ZX-300 via bluetooth or does it have to be a cabled connection?


----------



## Duncan

jonmbarlow said:


> Does this connect to Sony NW ZX-300 via bluetooth or does it have to be a cabled connection?


It connects as an audio device, so, yes, you could connect via BT, only with AptX though, not AptX HD - that being said, the vanilla version sounds fantastic to these ears!


----------



## Makiah S

Been crazy busy all this week! But finally got a chance to sit down and give this a first listen! Very impressed/excited to see it has it's own specially designed iPHONE friendly Case!!!! While I don't own an iPhone the wife does and everything was 100% plug and play! The case fits super snugly, wasn't hard to operate and Spotify immediately output to the Q5 without any fuss! Overall fire impressions with some pop are good, no unpleasantness from the RS2E but alas tonight was my last listen with it





Next up I tested some Miles Davis with my K702, again plenty of power great sound and tons of detail! I'm loving the Hard Line out as well as all the blu-tooth options! Non the less my listening time is up and I need to head to bed. So more to come tommorow


----------



## qsk78

Nice black case and a very good pair)


----------



## FiiO

jonmbarlow said:


> Does this connect to Sony NW ZX-300 via bluetooth or does it have to be a cabled connection?


Dear friend,

Both Bluetooth and cabled connection can be supported.

Best regards


----------



## torifile

Mshenay said:


> Been crazy busy all this week! But finally got a chance to sit down and give this a first listen! Very impressed/excited to see it has it's own specially designed iPHONE friendly Case!!!! While I don't own an iPhone the wife does and everything was 100% plug and play! The case fits super snugly, wasn't hard to operate and Spotify immediately output to the Q5 without any fuss! Overall fire impressions with some pop are good, no unpleasantness from the RS2E but alas tonight was my last listen with it
> 
> 
> 
> Next up I tested some Miles Davis with my K702, again plenty of power great sound and tons of detail! I'm loving the Hard Line out as well as all the blu-tooth options! Non the less my listening time is up and I need to head to bed. So more to come tommorow





qsk78 said:


> Nice black case and a very good pair)



If people mention cases, can they please link to them, too? It’s frustrating to see a cool case and have no info on where it’s from or what to even google for.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 4, 2018)

torifile said:


> If people mention cases, can they please link to them, too? It’s frustrating to see a cool case and have no info on where it’s from or what to even google for.


Official Store at Ali https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lea...32850832785.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3e6Zu7

Looks like it is out of stock now


----------



## snellemin

So before I even got to mess around with taking out the opamp in the AM3A,  somehow died on me.  I get a red blinking light and the unit shuts down.  It's out of warranty.......

Anyways, the AM3 amp that I'm using right now, sounds nicer with the JVC SZ2000, vs the AM3A did using the balanced out.


----------



## Hanesu

Hi Fiio,

when will the Q5 be released in Japan?


----------



## int_architect

snellemin said:


> So before I even got to mess around with taking out the opamp in the AM3A,  somehow died on me.  I get a red blinking light and the unit shuts down.  It's out of warranty.......
> 
> Anyways, the AM3 amp that I'm using right now, sounds nicer with the JVC SZ2000, vs the AM3A did using the balanced out.


Did you try charging it?


----------



## snellemin

int_architect said:


> Did you try charging it?


There is power.  I swapped between them and the am3a fails every time.


----------



## 329161

Joined the club. Very refined sq for the money and features up the ying yang. Very impressed....


----------



## 329161

Is the Fiio Music app not available on android? I can't seem to find it on the store. If not, is there a way to turn off the horizontal light manually on the unit?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

dcfac73 said:


> Is the Fiio Music app not available on android? I can't seem to find it on the store. If not, is there a way to turn off the horizontal light manually on the unit?


no / no
FiiO promised an Android app will be ready this summer.


----------



## franz12

To @FiiO USA 
I am testing the optical output from my Mac pro. But there are some issues.
My rig is Mac pro retina 2015 (15') - toslink cable (purchased from https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T8HWV62/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) - Fiio Q5 - MCTH - ether c flow.

When I choose the digital out with 2 ch 24-bit 192kHz from Audio Midi Setup (included in MacOSX), there is no sound! The maximum rate I can choose without any issues is 2 ch 24-bit Integer 88.kHz. If I increase it one step up to 2 ch 16-bit Integer 96kHz, sound starts to crack.

It seems that Fiio Q5 does not support the rate higher up from 96kHz when I use the optical input (purple color). Is this right?


----------



## ClassicGOD

franz12 said:


> It seems that Fiio Q5 does not support the rate higher up from 96kHz when I use the optical input (purple color). Is this right?


According to the specs: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/83/parameters optical input supports up to 96KHz/24bit


----------



## franz12

ClassicGOD said:


> According to the specs: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/83/parameters optical input supports up to 96KHz/24bit


Gotcha. Even at 96KHz, it is cracking intermittently. So I lowered further a bit to 88.2KHz.


----------



## ClassicGOD

franz12 said:


> Gotcha. Even at 96KHz, it is cracking intermittently. So I lowered further a bit to 88.2KHz.


I was getting crackling even at 44.1 (that is why I RMA'd it) it looks like Q5 is very picky about optical sources. I hope I get an replacement - they had my Q5 for few weeks now and I miss it every day (they said Q5 is out of stock and it can take up to a month so I assume they are just waiting for the production to catch up)


----------



## franz12

ClassicGOD said:


> I was getting crackling even at 44.1 (that is why I RMA'd it) it looks like Q5 is very picky about optical sources. I hope I get an replacement - they had my Q5 for few weeks now and I miss it every day (they said Q5 is out of stock and it can take up to a month so I assume they are just waiting for the production to catch up)



Yes, it does seem picky. First, Q5 recognized it incorrectly as the coxial input, it didn't work at all. I pulled the optical input adapter off (included in Q5) and plugged it again in the opposite direction, and then it started to recognize it as the optical input. Dumbfounded. Anyway, it is now working.


----------



## torifile

I guess I should test the optical input eventually just to make sure mine’s not a bum copy.


----------



## franz12 (Apr 6, 2018)

The issue is emerging once again. It started to recognize the optical input from Mac as the coax input incorrectly again. No sound at all. Is there any way to force Q5 to recognize it as the optical input?

Edit: Nevermind. I found it. Hold the forward button for a few seconds, then the color changes.


----------



## franz12

I was doing A/B between

Mac Pro - Q5 - MCTH - Ether c flow 
vs
Mac Pro - Q5 - Ether c flow.

I had a hard time figuring out what are exactly differences between the two. It wasn't immediate day and night difference. After very careful listening with the volume turned up, the setup with MCTH is tad more crisp, tad more transparent, and slightly better in imaging. The amp section in Q5 is slightly laid-back. But they are close and I was very impressed by this small gadget. Overall functions/buttons are carefully designed for convenience, and I really like its bluetooth connection.

If I need to sell one of Q5 and MCTH, MCTH will have to go first.


----------



## demond

franz12 said:


> The issue is emerging once again. It started to recognize the optical input from Mac as the coax input incorrectly again. No sound at all. Is there any way to force Q5 to recognize it as the optical input?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. I found it. Hold the forward button for a few seconds, then the color changes.


Click the forward button，Input functions will rotate switching: line lin / opt in / coax in / line lin...


----------



## torifile

I got my CA Andromedas today. They hiss through the Q5s even on low gain with low volume (using balanced cable). I guess they’re far more sensitive than the Vegas o had been using.


----------



## ronkupper

bflat said:


> Accessories for those Q5 owners with OCD like me:
> 
> Low noise 5V power supply - https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/ costs $50 and available with US and Int'l plugs. Plenty of juice to support charge and play. Mine has been running not stop for 2 days and color bar is solid.
> USB to Coax DDC - http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr costs $180
> ...



Q5's primary use case is mobile so seems a bit esoteric, but I like the OCD thinking 

Do we know if the Q5's DAC and AMP are using the device's battery even while USB charging? 
If so then the linear USB PSU is redundant isn't it? 
(btw I'm fascinated by iFi's ANC tech)


----------



## hbmorrison

Can anybody confirm for me that the balanced output on the Fiio Q5 amp section uses the same wiring as Astell & Kern? I am asking for compatibility with after-market cables that don't mention the Q5 explicitly.


----------



## No Deal

The L27 connector for my Q5/ZX300 finally arrived yesterday.  I had been using the bluetooth connection.  I know how convenient it is to use bluetooth but as long as I have a choice, no more bluetooth for me.  Personal preference.  I realize that there can be several things that effect sound quality but the treble seems less harsh with the USB connection.  To me the Q5 is smoother.  Liking it a lot more now.


----------



## No Deal

hannahjherself said:


> Can anybody confirm for me that the balanced output on the Fiio Q5 amp section uses the same wiring as Astell & Kern? I am asking for compatibility with after-market cables that don't mention the Q5 explicitly.



I too am curious about this.  I would like to finish my current setup with the addition of a PlusSound headphone cable but before I buy I would like to have this question answered.


----------



## Duncan

hannahjherself said:


> Can anybody confirm for me that the balanced output on the Fiio Q5 amp section uses the same wiring as Astell & Kern? I am asking for compatibility with after-market cables that don't mention the Q5 explicitly.





No Deal said:


> I too am curious about this.  I would like to finish my current setup with the addition of a PlusSound headphone cable but before I buy I would like to have this question answered.


I'm using AK T8ie mkII via balanced cable that came with them, works perfectly and sounds (with these) amazing!


----------



## No Deal

Duncan said:


> I'm using AK T8ie mkII via balanced cable that came with them, works perfectly and sounds (with these) amazing!


Thanks!


Duncan said:


> I'm using AK T8ie mkII via balanced cable that came with them, works perfectly and sounds (with these) amazing!



Thanks!


----------



## tim0chan

No Deal said:


> I too am curious about this.  I would like to finish my current setup with the addition of a PlusSound headphone cable but before I buy I would like to have this question answered.


They are the same


----------



## franz12

ronkupper said:


> Q5's primary use case is mobile so seems a bit esoteric, but I like the OCD thinking
> 
> Do we know if the Q5's DAC and AMP are using the device's battery even while USB charging?
> If so then the linear USB PSU is redundant isn't it?
> (btw I'm fascinated by iFi's ANC tech)



Until I buy a new desktop DAC, I use Q5 as a dac in my desktop setup. With dual AK4490EN, it is quite good as a standalone dac. My ether c flow is phenomenal along with mcth.

Regarding Schiit stuff, you don't need to waste money though, if you use mac pro before 2015. You can use a toslink cable for the optical input into Q5.


----------



## torifile

The hiss with my Andromedas is worse over Bluetooth than when it’s wired. Anyone have guesses as to why that would be? I’ve got an IEMatch on order. Hopefully that will help the hiss and not color the sound too much. I know the Andromedas are hiss monsters so it’s expected but it does kind of suck.


----------



## Duncan

torifile said:


> The hiss with my Andromedas is worse over Bluetooth than when it’s wired. Anyone have guesses as to why that would be? I’ve got an IEMatch on order. Hopefully that will help the hiss and not color the sound too much. I know the Andromedas are hiss monsters so it’s expected but it does kind of suck.


I see the Andromedas are 12.8ohms with 115db efficiency, my T8ie mkII are 16ohms with 110db efficiency - I get the barest amount of hiss, unnoticed as soon as there is any ambience or music, however - I note that the Q5 is only rated for 16ohm or higher, it could be simply that you're pushing the boundaries of what this can offer - I imagine that the BT element just adds a little more noise than the other inputs?!


----------



## 325xia

My Shure 846’s are 9ohms., and 114db’s. Perfectly match the Q5. Did you try the. Bass Boost? I use it on occasion with certain music and really helps.


----------



## torifile

Duncan said:


> I see the Andromedas are 12.8ohms with 115db efficiency, my T8ie mkII are 16ohms with 110db efficiency - I get the barest amount of hiss, unnoticed as soon as there is any ambience or music, however - I note that the Q5 is only rated for 16ohm or higher, it could be simply that you're pushing the boundaries of what this can offer - I imagine that the BT element just adds a little more noise than the other inputs?!


Try as I might to understand what all this means, I can’t wrap my mind around it. Can you explain how all those things fit together? I seem incapable of grasping these concepts so far. Thanks!


----------



## torifile

325xia said:


> My Shure 846’s are 9ohms., and 114db’s. Perfectly match the Q5. Did you try the. Bass Boost? I use it on occasion with certain music and really helps.


Music sounds fine but it’s the noticeable hiss that is bothersome.


----------



## Duncan

torifile said:


> Try as I might to understand what all this means, I can’t wrap my mind around it. Can you explain how all those things fit together? I seem incapable of grasping these concepts so far. Thanks!


The Fiio is rated for 16ohm or higher, the Andromeda fall below that (could _potentially _introduce distortion), whereas efficiency (which exaggerates the hiss) is pretty darned high, at 115db - I feel your pain, when I had the Shure SE846, I could hear hiss on players / DACs (Sony ZX2 and Chord Hugo) that most others couldn't...  It could be simply that you pick up on hiss more than other people do - there are many times when I've heard hiss on certain combinations, and other people haven't - it's the luck of the draw with both the devices that you run, and the sensitivity of your own ears...

Presume it is only bothersome when no music playing?


----------



## 325xia

torifile said:


> Music sounds fine but it’s the noticeable hiss that is bothersome.


Sorry, I should have read your question more closely. This may be a dumb ?...But, did you try a different IEM with this Q5?


----------



## torifile

325xia said:


> Sorry, I should have read your question more closely. This may be a dumb ?...But, did you try a different IEM with this Q5?


No worries. I used the CA Vega without hiss or problem with the Q5.


----------



## Duncan

325xia said:


> Sorry, I should have read your question more closely. This may be a dumb ?...But, did you try a different IEM with this Q5?


Good to see that the 846 sounds good through this - I do still regret selling my 846s, I think they'd go well with this (notwithstanding my previous post regarding hiss) - I - with these T8ies am really, no REALLY digging the Q5 - it has rejuvenated my interest again, and drawn me back in once more to all things Head-Fi


----------



## torifile

Duncan said:


> The Fiio is rated for 16ohm or higher, the Andromeda fall below that (could _potentially _introduce distortion), whereas efficiency (which exaggerates the hiss) is pretty darned high, at 115db - I feel your pain, when I had the Shure SE846, I could hear hiss on players / DACs (Sony ZX2 and Chord Hugo) that most others couldn't...  It could be simply that you pick up on hiss more than other people do - there are many times when I've heard hiss on certain combinations, and other people haven't - it's the luck of the draw with both the devices that you run, and the sensitivity of your own ears...
> 
> Presume it is only bothersome when no music playing?


I think I am more sensitive to hiss than others. I’ve had 2 Emotiva A-100 units. Thinking that the first one had to be defective since there was *so much hiss* and no one else complained of it, I had Emotiva replace it. The second one was just as bad. 

It’s bothersome when no music is playing, when the volume is low at “falling asleep” levels and when I’m listening to acoustic pieces that are more quiet overall than some other stuff.


----------



## 325xia

torifile said:


> No worries. I used the CA Vega without hiss or problem with the Q5.


You have some awesome IEM’s. I hope someone can assist you with this.


----------



## 325xia (Apr 8, 2018)

Duncan said:


> Good to see that the 846 sounds good through this - I do still regret selling my 846s, I think they'd go well with this (notwithstanding my previous post regarding hiss) - I - with these T8ies am really, no REALLY digging the Q5 - it has rejuvenated my interest again, and drawn me back in once more to all things Head-Fi


Yes, I love this Q5. Was originally going to go with the Mojo. I have been real happy with the 846’s over the years. Always toying with the idea of getting some Layla’s or other JHers. Just can’t see how things could sound better than this current combo. But, I’m sure there are other IEM’s that would shame my 846’s.


----------



## torifile

325xia said:


> You have some awesome IEM’s. I hope someone can assist you with this.


Thanks. It’s either going to be the Vega or andromeda. I need to decide which I prefer. I think I like the sound of the andromeda slightly more but the hiss is problematic.


----------



## torifile

I decided to hear how the Andros sound directly from my iPhone. Not bad at all. And very little hiss. I’m going to try them this way for a while and see if having the Q5 is needed since these aren’t hard to drive IEMs.


----------



## franz12

torifile said:


> I decided to hear how the Andros sound directly from my iPhone. Not bad at all. And very little hiss. I’m going to try them this way for a while and see if having the Q5 is needed since these aren’t hard to drive IEMs.



IPhone itself is a very good music player itself. I don't see myself carrying around a separate amp to drive IEMs. However, IPhone is not powerful enough to drive my over-ear headphones.


----------



## torifile

franz12 said:


> IPhone itself is a very good music player itself. I don't see myself carrying around a separate amp to drive IEMs. However, IPhone is not powerful enough to drive my over-ear headphones.


I take back my comments. I decided to try the Q5 using the single ended cable rather than the balanced cable I was using. Hiss was substantially reduced and they sound so much better out of the Q5 than directly from the iPhone. The iPhone is a good music device, sure, but it doesn’t compete here.


----------



## superuser1 (Apr 8, 2018)

franz12 said:


> IPhone itself is a very good music player itself. I don't see myself carrying around a separate amp to drive IEMs. However, IPhone is not powerful enough to drive my over-ear headphones.


Well if you dont have issues with or perceive any difference in SQ and the hiss is minimal then you have your answer.

It's not just about power.


----------



## franz12 (Apr 8, 2018)

superuser1 said:


> Well if you dont have issues with or perceive any difference in SQ and the hiss is minimal
> 
> It's not just about power.



I know. But I use my IEMs when I am moving. With ambient outside noise, it is hard for me to discern subtle difference between them.
If you use it in a very quiet environment, it would be a different story, but I use headphones in that situation.


----------



## FiiO

Hanesu said:


> Hi Fiio,
> 
> when will the Q5 be released in Japan?


Dear friend,

May in next month.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

franz12 said:


> Gotcha. Even at 96KHz, it is cracking intermittently. So I lowered further a bit to 88.2KHz.





franz12 said:


> Yes, it does seem picky. First, Q5 recognized it incorrectly as the coxial input, it didn't work at all. I pulled the optical input adapter off (included in Q5) and plugged it again in the opposite direction, and then it started to recognize it as the optical input. Dumbfounded. Anyway, it is now working.


Dear friend,

The issue with the 96kHz files remains same or has been solved now?

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

hannahjherself said:


> Can anybody confirm for me that the balanced output on the Fiio Q5 amp section uses the same wiring as Astell & Kern? I am asking for compatibility with after-market cables that don't mention the Q5 explicitly.


Dear friend,

Here is the definition of the balanced output of the Q5:





Best regards


----------



## ronkupper

@FiiO - Is there a way to verify that Q5 is working in AptX HD? 

I couldn't find an indicator and really wish there was. 

Perhaps you could consider adding a new indicator color for AptX HD in one of the next firmware upgrades?


----------



## Lay.

Hi, 

I have been using my FiiO E7 portable DAC/Amp for years. Yesterday I got Q5 and everything (bluetooth, USB etc.) seems to work like it should except when using 3.5mm line-in.

My question: Can FiiO Q5 be used to amplify the sound from a 3.5mm headphone output? 

At least my unit does not amplify the sound at all even when the volume is maxed out in Q5. The bass boost and gain are working though.


----------



## franz12

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The issue with the 96kHz files remains same or has been solved now?
> 
> Best regards



Hi @FiiO,

No. Still it is crackling like every 40 seconds with the 96kHz.
It's fine with the 88.2kHz. 
Do I need RMA?

Thanks,


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Lay. said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been using my FiiO E7 portable DAC/Amp for years. Yesterday I got Q5 and everything (bluetooth, USB etc.) seems to work like it should except when using 3.5mm line-in.
> 
> ...



Hi and welcome to head-fi 
To the 3.5mm line-in of the Q5, it is best to feed signal coming from a line-out source which is stronger in volume and cleaner that the signal coming from a headphone-out.
Otherwise you're double amplifying and the end result is not the best. If not possible to feed line-out signal, try to raise the volume of your headphone-out source to nearly max.


----------



## hbmorrison

Hey @FiiO I purchased a Q5 from Amazon a day days ago. It worked fine yesterday but today the volume knob does not have any effect. The Q5 is stuck on a fixed volume and does not change when I spin the knob from 0-10. Can you advise how I should get this fixed?


----------



## superuser1

hannahjherself said:


> Hey @FiiO I purchased a Q5 from Amazon a day days ago. It worked fine yesterday but today the volume knob does not have any effect. The Q5 is stuck on a fixed volume and does not change when I spin the knob from 0-10. Can you advise how I should get this fixed?


You could try resetting the device.


----------



## Lay.

KopaneDePooj said:


> Hi and welcome to head-fi
> To the 3.5mm line-in of the Q5, it is best to feed signal coming from a line-out source which is stronger in volume and cleaner that the signal coming from a headphone-out.
> Otherwise you're double amplifying and the end result is not the best. If not possible to feed line-out signal, try to raise the volume of your headphone-out source to nearly max.



Hi KopaneDePooj,

Thank you for the welcome and help.

I would normally use the 3.5mm line-in just with my Astro MixAmp TR Pro when gaming on PS4. The MixAmp does not have enough power to drive better headphones without a headphone amp. I know it is not ideal but sounds still way better than using normal headset with just MixAmp.

I just received (after my first post) a balanced 2.5mm custom cable from Custom Cans and with that Q5 amplifies my HD 660 S enough even from 3.5mm line-in. I'm just a little bit surprised that my old E7 works so much better when using 3.5mm headphone-out source and unbalanced cable.

Ps. That new cable is just amazing


----------



## hbmorrison

superuser1 said:


> You could try resetting the device.



Thanks for the tip. That's fixed it (and now I know how to reset).


----------



## FiiO

franz12 said:


> Hi @FiiO,
> 
> No. Still it is crackling like every 40 seconds with the 96kHz.
> It's fine with the 88.2kHz.
> ...


Dear friend,

What's the format of the music you are playing? Other input would not have the same issue with the same music files?

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Lay. said:


> Hi KopaneDePooj,
> 
> Thank you for the welcome and help.
> 
> ...



Wow, that cable looks... cosy 
How does the HD 660 S sound with the Q5 with USB-in?


----------



## Lay. (Apr 10, 2018)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Wow, that cable looks... cosy
> How does the HD 660 S sound with the Q5 with USB-in?



The wide angle lense of the phone makes the cable look even thicker than it is.

I really like the sound when using HD 660 S and Q5 with USB-in or even with bluetooth (Galaxy S8+).


----------



## scott s

I just became aware of this puppy!. So I can actually send the digital data to the q5 via Bluetooth from my android phone? (Axon 7 mini) . Can 24/192 be transmitted?
Any help appreciated!


----------



## scott s

scott s said:


> I just became aware of this puppy!. So I can actually send the digital data to the q5 via Bluetooth from my android phone? (Axon 7 mini) . Can 24/192 be transmitted?
> Any help appreciated!


Never mind. My phone does not have aptX hd.


----------



## ronkupper

scott s said:


> Never mind. My phone does not have aptX hd.



Q5 doesn't have AptX HD... Just AptX. Bummer.


----------



## franz12

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> What's the format of the music you are playing? Other input would not have the same issue with the same music files?
> 
> Best regards



Hi @FiiO,

I was streaming Apple music (AAC) via the optical input from my Mac Pro Retina 2015 (15', highest configuration/cpu at that time). When I set at the 96kHz, it is crackling every 30-40 second. When I set at the 88.2kHz, it doesn't crackle.

The usb input works fine. The same source connected into the usb input does not crackle.

Should I request RMA for this issue?

Thanks,


----------



## Duncan

ronkupper said:


> Q5 doesn't have AptX HD... Just AptX. Bummer.


There is quite a lot of marketing BS surrounding that - although that isn't really belonging in this thread...

What I will say is that I would rather have a strongly implemented AptX than a poorly to moderately implemented AptX HD….

The Q5 sounds really really good, even with just the standard 16/44 version of AptX.


----------



## bflat

franz12 said:


> Hi @FiiO,
> 
> I was streaming Apple music (AAC) via the optical input from my Mac Pro Retina 2015 (15', highest configuration/cpu at that time). When I set at the 96kHz, it is crackling every 30-40 second. When I set at the 88.2kHz, it doesn't crackle.
> 
> ...



That is odd since AAC base sampling rate is 48 kHz. However, I've never tried oversampling a lossy file either. Try a a lossless 96/24 file. Sony has a free sample:

http://helpguide.sony.net/high-res/sample1/v1/en/index.html

If you are still hearing distortion, try a different optical cable.


----------



## scott s (Apr 10, 2018)

Duncan said:


> There is quite a lot of marketing BS surrounding that - although that isn't really belonging in this thread...
> 
> What I will say is that I would rather have a strongly implemented AptX than a poorly to moderately implemented AptX HD….
> 
> The Q5 sounds really really good, even with just the standard 16/44 version of AptX.


Lol. My dang phone doesn't even have aptX apparently. Just standard Bluetooth. I don't think it will transmit 16/44 even. So I am back to just using it's akm hi Fi chip and headphone out to a fiio a5 amp. I like to keep the USB open on it to hook up a power bank because hi res files drain its battery fast.
If I could use a y cable and use the q5 in USB mode and a powerbank at the same time I would go for it!!
Plus my phone is USB c so there is that possible issue of the q5 just sucking life out of the phone lol


----------



## franz12

I


bflat said:


> That is odd since AAC base sampling rate is 48 kHz. However, I've never tried oversampling a lossy file either. Try a a lossless 96/24 file. Sony has a free sample:
> 
> http://helpguide.sony.net/high-res/sample1/v1/en/index.html
> 
> If you are still hearing distortion, try a different optical cable.


I don’t think the optical cable itself is a problem, it works well in other circumstances and bought from a reputable dealer from amazon. But I will try a sony file later.


----------



## Immortal

After 2 months, always really really happy with that!


----------



## FiiO

franz12 said:


> Hi @FiiO,
> 
> I was streaming Apple music (AAC) via the optical input from my Mac Pro Retina 2015 (15', highest configuration/cpu at that time). When I set at the 96kHz, it is crackling every 30-40 second. When I set at the 88.2kHz, it doesn't crackle.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Our engineer told us that because of the different material of the optical cable, the optical signal may have the loss. Do you have an optical cable with better quality for try? Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 11, 2018)

I send 24/192 files to the Q5 via optical (noname cable) without any issue.
No issues with the above mentioned samples either.


----------



## franz12 (Apr 11, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Our engineer told us that because of the different material of the optical cable, the optical signal may have the loss. Do you have an optical cable with better quality for try? Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.
> 
> Best regards



Hi @FiiO

I purchased this cable *just a week ago* to hook it up with my Q5 from here.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T8HWV62/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is very well reviewed and a best selling cable from Amazon. At this point, I don't think that there is any defect on this cable. MAC toslink cable allows up to 24/192 FYI. Also, I am unsure whether I need to buy another for a purely testing purpose. If you know a good one (toslink cable for MAC), can you recommend one?

I am afraid I have to send it for RMA.

Thanks,


----------



## franz12

qsk78 said:


> I send 24/192 files to the Q5 via optical (noname cable) without any issue.
> No issues with the above mentioned samples either.



I think you are using the coxial input which allows 24/192. The optical input (purple color on Q5) is capped at 24/96. Test the optical input if possible.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 11, 2018)

franz12 said:


> I think you are using the coxial input which allows 24/192. The optical input (purple color on Q5) is capped at 24/96. Test the optical input if possible.


No, pure optical from my sound card. I don't have any coaxial output/cable at home


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 13, 2018)

The new amp AM3B with a 4.4 mm balanced output has been announced http://www.fiio.net/en/products/73#AM3B

I see no difference components wise so far inside the amp section.
The only difference is 498 mW vs 400 mW (AM3A) and a higher impedance (3 ohm vs 1.7 ohm).

*@FiiO* can we expect any difference in sound with the new AM3B vs AM3A? Most probably not except the power, right? Thanks


----------



## Duncan

Power for my personal usage (iems) doesn't bother me, but interested in any tonally changes with that different output impedance.

Colour me interested, and my wallet, in pain!


----------



## FiiO

qsk78 said:


> The new amp AM3B with a 4.4 mm balanced output has been announced http://www.fiio.net/en/products/73#AM3B
> 
> I see no difference components wise so far inside the amp section.
> The only difference is 498 mW vs 400 mW (AM3A) and a higher impedance (3 ohm vs 1.7 ohm).
> ...


Dear friend, 

You may read the introduction from http://www.fiio.net/en/products/73#AM3B




Best regards


----------



## FiiO

franz12 said:


> Hi @FiiO
> 
> I purchased this cable *just a week ago* to hook it up with my Q5 from here.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T8HWV62/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


Dear friend,

Ok, thanks for informing. We are not sure replacing the Q5 could help or not. But maybe you could try to contact your seller about that for help.

Best regards


----------



## qsk78

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> You may read the introduction from http://www.fiio.net/en/products/73#AM3B
> Best regards



Thank you for clarification.
Please advise when the AM3B will be available in the official store at Aliexpress? Thank you.


----------



## Fawzay

To me fiio q5 and fiio x7mark2 almost the same sound quality or am i wrong. I felt the q5 is warmer in the mids section.....


----------



## snellemin

Just put in a order for the new AM3B.  Finally a proper 4.4mm connector.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Fawzay said:


> To me fiio q5 and fiio x7mark2 almost the same sound quality or am i wrong. I felt the q5 is warmer in the mids section.....



From what im reading around its extremely close especially with the same amp.


----------



## Fawzay

In May im gonna compare both fiio q5 and ifi xdsd and some people say the ifi xdsd almost comparable to hugo 2 .....


----------



## Makiah S

Fawzay said:


> To me fiio q5 and fiio x7mark2 almost the same sound quality or am i wrong. I felt the q5 is warmer in the mids section.....



I can see why you'd come to that conclusion! I also found the Q5 to have a slight haze or stuffiness compared to the X7 especially in the MidRange. Though what I found most interesting about the Q5 was how much the sound opened up when I switched form USB to Optical Input with my iRiver H140 as source! 

An I have NEVER heard a device that pair'd SO well with the optical out of my h140. I've always found the H140 in particular to sound VERY hard and overly bright/rough when ever I use it's optical output. An for what ever reason, with the Fiio Q5 this translated to an amazingly natural sound overall! So much so that I STRONGLY preferred the sound with my H140 over USB. Which works for me as it's also a portable. Though I am limited to only Redbook [16/44.1hrz] which isn't that big of a deal honestly 

Now the X7 thankfully, had a better sense of clarity to my ears over the Q5 and I feel a lot of that has to do with how the software is implemented in addition to the sheer fact that the Dac feeds directly into the amp.


----------



## Makiah S

Fawzay said:


> In May im gonna compare both fiio q5 and ifi xdsd and some people say the ifi xdsd almost comparable to hugo 2 .....


 
They have the iFi here at AXPONA and there's also a Hugo 2 floating around :3 so I might just do a little direct comparison here tomorrow morning for ya!

Getting back to the Q5 how ever, what other Amp Modules are there for it?


----------



## Fawzay (Apr 13, 2018)

Mshenay said:


> They have the iFi here at AXPONA and there's also a Hugo 2 floating around :3 so I might just do a little direct comparison here tomorrow morning for ya!
> 
> Getting back to the Q5 how ever, what other Amp Modules are there for it?


hmm wat i heard there is a new amp module am3b with 4.4mm balance output, that is pretty interesting dou that fiio has implemented this.

and thx! cant wait for the comparison


----------



## alphanumerix1

Fawzay said:


> hmm wat i heard there is a new amp module am3b with 4.4mm balance output, that is pretty interesting dou that fiio has implemented this.
> 
> and thx! can wait for the comparison



I think the hugo2 is slightly overated for the price but hey thats me. Xdsd looks okay but I'm sure you can audition both and come to your own conclusions


----------



## Makiah S (Apr 13, 2018)

alphanumerix1 said:


> I think the hugo2 is slightly overated for the price but hey thats me. Xdsd looks okay but I'm sure you can audition both and come to your own conclusions



Oh I completely agree, and honestly after hearing the Chord Dave. I STRONGLY feel that Chord's BEST Products in both value and performance are at the absolute top and bottom of their line up.

Namely the Mojo and Dave, after hearing both I feel those are imo the BEST Chord has to offer right now, The Hugo 2 is... too costly for what it does and not at all competitive. There are better options both cheaper than it and equally as transportable as it is. That said though, the Dave is like... mind altering... totally out of this WORLD detail. It was lke NOTHING I've ever heard before it. Holy smokes!!!!!



Fawzay said:


> hmm wat i heard there is a new amp module am3b with 4.4mm balance output, that is pretty interesting dou that fiio has implemented this.
> 
> and thx! cant wait for the comparison



I like that Fiio and other Manufacturers are embracing the 4.4 balanced out. While I've accepted 2.5mm balanced, I personally like having a more robust connector over the tiny little 2.5mm one. And the 4.4mm is a nice middle ground I think


----------



## bflat

Mshenay said:


> Oh I completely agree, and honestly after hearing the Chord Dave. I STRONGLY feel that Chord's BEST Products in both value and performance are at the absolute top and bottom of their line up.
> 
> Namely the Mojo and Dave, after hearing both I feel those are imo the BEST Chord has to offer right now, The Hugo 2 is... too costly for what it does and not at all competitive. There are better options both cheaper than it and equally as transportable as it is. That said though, the Dave is like... mind altering... totally out of this WORLD detail. It was lke NOTHING I've ever heard before it. Holy smokes!!!!!



That is good advice. I think most folks think that the middle models offer the best price performance. On a technical level that could very well be true, but then it leaves burning questions - did I over pay when the basic model was good enough? or maybe I should have paid more for the top of the line?

At least when you buy the absolute bottom or top, there is no ambiguity. You buy bottom and you know you made the pure cost decision and it's too steep to jump to the top. You buy the top, well, you can only look down from there LOL.

To keep on topic, I really like the Q5 because at this moment there is no higher dac/amp above it from Fiio.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 14, 2018)

snellemin said:


> Just put in a order for the new AM3B.  Finally a proper 4.4mm connector.


Looking forward to your impressions vs am3a.
I'll wait and see. ) Not ready to move immediately from 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm.


----------



## FiiO

qsk78 said:


> Thank you for clarification.
> Please advise when the AM3B will be available in the official store at Aliexpress? Thank you.


Dear friend,

You could find it from: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...840.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.7110e728IKfqkE

Best regards


----------



## Victorfabius

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> You could find it from: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...840.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.7110e728IKfqkE
> 
> Best regards



Ordered for my Q5. Only questions remaining are 1. What’s the battery life difference between the AM3A and AM3B?. And 2. Will this make me get the X7 Mark II and sell the DX200?

Excellent job on the look of the AM3B, FiiO. I particularly like the fact that you kept the 3.5mm jack.  Now to tell the wife what I bought...


----------



## Duncan

I do still have to say that the Q5 is a highly competitive amp/dac that has great potential.

I have had no issues with it whatsoever yet, and - for me, the Bluetooth has been a welcome revelation, giving me faith in a protocol that I had previously abandoned for being at best patchy, and at worst, pathetic.

I'm proud to own the Q5


----------



## gavinfabl (Apr 15, 2018)

I got my Q5 yesterday. The volume control and bass boost switch aren't working when connected via bluetooth.  Has anyone else had this. I paired to another device and same issue.Is this meant to be how it works ?

Seems volume controls etc aren’t working in any mode.

Edit. I found how to reset the Q5. Press the reset pin hole. Assume it’s just a quick press. Still got no control over the volume or bass boost in Bluetooth or usb Dac Mode.


----------



## tim0chan

Victorfabius said:


> Ordered for my Q5. Only questions remaining are 1. What’s the battery life difference between the AM3A and AM3B?. And 2. Will this make me get the X7 Mark II and sell the DX200?
> 
> Excellent job on the look of the AM3B, FiiO. I particularly like the fact that you kept the 3.5mm jack.  Now to tell the wife what I bought...


Dx200 with amp 4 is still the best for the price


----------



## Duncan

tim0chan said:


> Dx200 with amp 4 is still the best for the price


...if you want a DAP...

For my personal usage it is good to be able to stream YouTube / Qobuz etc.  I’m more than happy!


gavinfabl said:


> I got my Q5 yesterday. The volume control and bass boost switch aren't working when connected via bluetooth.  Has anyone else had this. I paired to another device and same issue.Is this meant to be how it works ?
> 
> Seems volume controls etc aren’t working in any mode.
> 
> Edit. I found how to reset the Q5. Press the reset pin hole. Assume it’s just a quick press. Still got no control over the volume or bass boost in Bluetooth or usb Dac Mode.


I would assume that it would be at least three seconds, but can confirm that definitely isn’t normal behaviour!  Are you using this with an Apple product, so as to be able to bring up the Q5 properties in the FiiO app, to see if something is amiss?

Would presume could be an RMA job?!


----------



## gavinfabl (Apr 15, 2018)

Duncan said:


> ...if you want a DAP...
> 
> For my personal usage it is good to be able to stream YouTube / Qobuz etc.  I’m more than happy!
> I would assume that it would be at least three seconds, but can confirm that definitely isn’t normal behaviour!  Are you using this with an Apple product, so as to be able to bring up the Q5 properties in the FiiO app, to see if something is amiss?
> ...



I haven’t yet but I can use my iPad. Which is the app you’re referring too?

If you mean the Fiio Music app , I’m not sure how this helps? The Fiio controller app does nothing.

It appears as if the Q5 is stuck in a line out mode.

Looks like it will be a RMA. Will have to get a replacement as the Q5 is ideal for what I was looking for.


----------



## Joewoof

gavinfabl said:


> I got my Q5 yesterday. The volume control and bass boost switch aren't working when connected via bluetooth.  Has anyone else had this. I paired to another device and same issue.Is this meant to be how it works ?
> 
> Seems volume controls etc aren’t working in any mode.
> 
> Edit. I found how to reset the Q5. Press the reset pin hole. Assume it’s just a quick press. Still got no control over the volume or bass boost in Bluetooth or usb Dac Mode.



Are your headphones plugged into the bottom while using Bluetooth?


----------



## gavinfabl

Joewoof said:


> Are your headphones plugged into the bottom while using Bluetooth?



Yes they are , in the 3.5mm headphone socket of the Q5


----------



## Duncan

gavinfabl said:


> I haven’t yet but I can use my iPad. Which is the app you’re referring too?
> 
> If you mean the Fiio Music app , I’m not sure how this helps? The Fiio controller app does nothing.
> 
> ...


Couple of things - the controller app isn't for the Q5, you need the Fiio Music app, and - that - well, that doesn't work on an ipad


----------



## gavinfabl

Duncan said:


> Couple of things - the controller app isn't for the Q5, you need the Fiio Music app, and - that - well, that doesn't work on an ipad



Thanks Duncan. 

Good news though. I’ve got it to work and I’ll confess it was user error on a Sunday morning. I think I need to go back to sleep as @Joewoof suggested I might have my headphones plugged into the line out socket and facepalm somehow I had managed to do this and keep repeating the error.


----------



## Joewoof

gavinfabl said:


> Thanks Duncan.
> 
> Good news though. I’ve got it to work and I’ll confess it was user error on a Sunday morning. I think I need to go back to sleep as @Joewoof suggested I might have my headphones plugged into the line out socket and facepalm somehow I had managed to do this and keep repeating the error.



Made the same mistake... If you check my post history, it was the first thing I asked about!


----------



## gavinfabl

Joewoof said:


> Made the same mistake... If you check my post history, it was the first thing I asked about!



Crazy part is I was using the Q5 just fine on Saturday. It all went wrong this morning  and I can’t believe I made such a mistake


----------



## Duncan

gavinfabl said:


> Thanks Duncan.
> 
> Good news though. I’ve got it to work and I’ll confess it was user error on a Sunday morning. I think I need to go back to sleep as @Joewoof suggested I might have my headphones plugged into the line out socket and facepalm somehow I had managed to do this and keep repeating the error.


Good to see 

Any first impressions?


----------



## gavinfabl

Duncan said:


> Good to see
> 
> Any first impressions?



Now I’ve had a bit of time with it, first impressions are “does exactly what I needed “ and sounds superb. Ordered the AM5 module for it so will see how that goes. 

The Bluetooth option is brilliant too. Opens a lot of versatility without fuss.


----------



## Victorfabius

tim0chan said:


> Dx200 with amp 4 is still the best for the price


I’ve got the Amp4s on order. Will see which I prefer, but I’m kinda missing that second TF card slot. DX200 is excellent; FiiO is solid and almost always over performs for the price point. Q5 is great, there’s a heck of a lot to like with the X7 Mark II. With this new module, there’s no wrong choice. While I’d prefer aptX HD on any of the aforementioned devices, that doesn’t take away from what FiiO’s accomplished. It’s impressive.


----------



## scott s

Hmm. I am very interested in this q5. I currently have an axon 7 mini using USB audio player pro in hi res direct mode. I have a fiio a5 amp attached to it. Sounds very nice but I am now thinking if I am gonna strap an amp to it I might go with the the better DAC the q5 has.?? Only down fall is the battery life on the axon is not terrific and with the a5 I am able to plug a powerbank into the phone to keep it alive lol. Wish I could charge phone and use q5 at same time?
So what do ya all think. Q5 or stick with the akm chip in my phone?


----------



## bflat

scott s said:


> Hmm. I am very interested in this q5. I currently have an axon 7 mini using USB audio player pro in hi res direct mode. I have a fiio a5 amp attached to it. Sounds very nice but I am now thinking if I am gonna strap an amp to it I might go with the the better DAC the q5 has.?? Only down fall is the battery life on the axon is not terrific and with the a5 I am able to plug a powerbank into the phone to keep it alive lol. Wish I could charge phone and use q5 at same time?
> So what do ya all think. Q5 or stick with the akm chip in my phone?



Here is a crazy idea - I believe the OTG cable supplied with the Q5 allowed the host end to suck battery from the Q5. This is bad for most folks and fortunately there are OTG cables on Amazon that prevent this. However, in your case, it seems the former is exactly what you want - Q5 keeps your phone charged. Try this out and connect your battery bank to the side USB port on the Q5 and you should be able to keep both devices charged. Report back on the results. There may be a few folks who would be interested in doing the exact same thing.


----------



## scott s

bflat said:


> Here is a crazy idea - I believe the OTG cable supplied with the Q5 allowed the host end to suck battery from the Q5. This is bad for most folks and fortunately there are OTG cables on Amazon that prevent this. However, in your case, it seems the former is exactly what you want - Q5 keeps your phone charged. Try this out and connect your battery bank to the side USB port on the Q5 and you should be able to keep both devices charged. Report back on the results. There may be a few folks who would be interested in doing the exact same thing.



Somehow I am amazed that some one else has not tried that yet?
I am also hoping fiio will start selling a q5 with the am5 module!
Does the q5 cable come with a c connect for the phone end?


----------



## bflat

scott s said:


> Somehow I am amazed that some one else has not tried that yet?
> I am also hoping fiio will start selling a q5 with the am5 module!
> Does the q5 cable come with a c connect for the phone end?



Yes, but it is micro USB. Don't know what your phone has. If it's USB-C then you will need to find an OTG cable that does have the charging enabled. I'm an Apple user so perhaps a knowledgeable Android user here can give you the specs of the USB cable you need.


----------



## scott s

bflat said:


> Yes, but it is micro USB. Don't know what your phone has. If it's USB-C then you will need to find an OTG cable that does have the charging enabled. I'm an Apple user so perhaps a knowledgeable Android user here can give you the specs of the USB cable you need.



Well I could always use male c to micro female adapter block at phone but dislike them. They seem to get pretty warm lol.


----------



## scott s

Maybe someone here who has the q5 and a phone that gets sucked out can try with the q5 in charge and see if it charges their phone(original phone connect cable) worst scenario is I can listen for about 3 hours or so in airplane mode and recharge phone but man if the above worked it would be fabulous!!


----------



## Duncan

Hmm, just connected my USB C OTG cable, and no charge in either direction...

I know what you mean though, as i have the RHA amp, which gets charged by the phone in the same configuration...


----------



## scott s

Duncan said:


> Hmm, just connected my USB C OTG cable, and no charge in either direction...
> 
> I know what you mean though, as i have the RHA amp, which gets charged by the phone in the same configuration...



Ok but what c cable is that. If the one from eBay it won't allow to charge at all. It has to be cable that was reverse charging the q5 from the phone. Then plug charger into side of q5 and see if the phone charges .


----------



## scott s

I am beginning to think I will have to live with the phones battery life. If I keep the screen off it is not so bad!


----------



## scott s

There has got to be a way to make a 
cable that will allow powerbank to charge phone and use q5 at same time lol.


----------



## Duncan

I'm seeing what you're saying...

Update here for Android Oreo and S9+ - using the Q5 on its own, there is an error, saying that the Q5 is drawing too much power, which causes a disconnect...

Plugging a power source into the Q5 then allows playback without error however, if selecting the phone to be charged by the Q5, audio disconnects, and within a few seconds the phone goes back to standard mode (ie no charging takes place), so looks like no go.


----------



## Duncan

scott s said:


> There has got to be a way to make a
> cable that will allow powerbank to charge phone and use q5 at same time lol.


There is a very easy way, which I have no problem with, and is one of the Q5s trump cards, connect with Bluetooth


----------



## scott s (Apr 15, 2018)

My phone doesn't have aptX to play even CD quality via Bluetooth!
I will not play anything less than cd quality and Bluetooth is a battery drainer all it's own!
All I have is standard Apt


----------



## scott s

Well I decided I will eventually get a q5 but when and only when they come with the am5 packaged with them or they are sold without an amp module so we can choose!!


----------



## tim0chan

scott s said:


> Well I decided I will eventually get a q5 but when and only when they come with the am5 packaged with them or they are sold without an amp module so we can choose!!


As was said god knows how many times, they won't cos there will be too many variations of the Q5 package. 
I think a good compromise would be to pm the fiio rep and see if they can work something out with u


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Apr 16, 2018)

@FiiO

Just saw a new cable in your M7 product page. (FiiO CL06 USB-C to micro). Picture below.
Is that cable compatible with Android smartphones? Can I connect my HTC 10 to Q5?
Is the cable available for sale?
Thanks!


----------



## scott s (Apr 16, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> As was said god knows how many times, they won't cos there will be too many variations of the Q5 package.
> I think a good compromise would be to pm the fiio rep and see if they can work something out with u



They sell the amp modules separately. They are already packaged. How hard can it be to package the q5 without a module lol. The package would be smaller so less cost for package !
Then again they seem to be made from unobtanium anyways lol


----------



## 329161




----------



## khyaris

I just bought a FiiO Q5 than i'll mainly use through bluetooth with Spotify Premium.
I'm quite happy with the sound quality, using it with Pinnacle P1 and Focal Spirit Professional.

There's just one thing that I find annoying, you have to wait 2 sec to turn it on, then press again for 2 sec the bluetooth button to turn this on.
@FiiO It would be neat to have an option to turn automatically the bluetooth on when you turn the fiio on.
It might be easy to implement through the iOS app ?

Also, @FiiO said somewhere in the thread the BT chip could theoretically be updated to BT 5.0.
Why theoretically ? It should already be 5.0 according to the manufacturer https://www.qualcomm.com/products/csr8670
I believe it's only a question of Fiio's will to do it ... I hope it's on your roadmap.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

@FiiO 
Any news about when the Q5 will be in stock at fiio.aliexpress.com ?


----------



## Duncan

scott s said:


> They sell the amp modules separately. They are already packaged. How hard can it be to package the q5 without a module lol. The package would be smaller so less cost for package !
> Then again they seem to be made from unobtanium anyways lol


The downside to that is that if you don’t buy a module at the same time it’s pretty much useless.


----------



## tim0chan

Duncan said:


> The downside to that is that if you don’t buy a module at the same time it’s pretty much useless.


My point exactly @scott s , except for die hard (?) Fans like you, the rest of us plebs don't have another amp module. Just stop being salty cos the only 2 fiio products you don't own are the Q5 and amp5 (jk of course)
In all seriousness tho, fiio is unlikely to do this because:
1. Packaging has already been fixed. Changing stuff like accessories (am5 ) would cause them problems at quite a few production stages, not to mention delays due to having to ramp up production of the amp5 module. (Among other things)
2. The number of users like you are miniscule in number. Most of us haven't bought into the ecosystem yet. Since you happen to represent such a small number of users, I'm guessing fiio would rather cater to the rest of us and release their product with what they think is their best foot forward (am3a) and forgo that tiny number of sales rather than accede to every request.


----------



## Duncan

Hmm...  Why does my optical input (which I'm trying for the first time) only bring up the yellow light, and no audio?


----------



## ClassicGOD

RTFM 

You press the next track button to switch between line in modes - green is analog, yellow is coax, purple is optical.


----------



## scott s

ClassicGOD said:


> RTFM
> 
> You press the next track button to switch between line in modes - green is analog, yellow is coax, purple is optical.



Lol you beat me to it


----------



## Duncan (Apr 17, 2018)

Thanks, I RTFM in frustration - but then found another issue, that all but one optical cable I have (ironically - the one that connects my AK120 to the Mojo, pre-shaped) don't seem to work...

Guessing the optical sensor is very fussy - that being said, I'm experimenting with using a Chromecast Audio via DLNA, using that bespoke optical, I really like the input - Suppose that'll be more money to spend 

Oh, and even though I'm running sensitive IEMs, have to say, I kind of like high gain, seems to open up the sound... good bit of exploration


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## qsk78

Nice picture. 
What is your connector type for Hiby R3? I'm waiting for Shanling L2 usb-c to microusb.


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> @FiiO
> 
> Just saw a new cable in your M7 product page. (FiiO CL06 USB-C to micro). Picture below.
> Is that cable compatible with Android smartphones? Can I connect my HTC 10 to Q5?
> ...


Dear friend,

May be avialable in next month. It could theoretically support your mobilephone if it could support usb audio output.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

khyaris said:


> I just bought a FiiO Q5 than i'll mainly use through bluetooth with Spotify Premium.
> I'm quite happy with the sound quality, using it with Pinnacle P1 and Focal Spirit Professional.
> 
> There's just one thing that I find annoying, you have to wait 2 sec to turn it on, then press again for 2 sec the bluetooth button to turn this on.
> ...


Dear friend,

We will report your suggestion about Bluetooth to our engineer and consider about that.Currently, the Q5 could not support BT5.0.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> @FiiO
> Any news about when the Q5 will be in stock at fiio.aliexpress.com ?


Dear friend,

May in the recent few days.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Duncan said:


> Couple of things - the controller app isn't for the Q5, you need the Fiio Music app, and - that - well, that doesn't work on an ipad


Dear friend,

No. The FiiO Music APP can be supported in iPad as well. You would need to switch the download to 'iPhone only' instead of 'iPad only' when download it from App Store.

Best regards


----------



## CHxJC

How does the default AMP module work with low impedence IEMs? I'm planning on getting the Q5 for the FLC 8s (11 Ω) and Oriveti New Primacy (8 Ω). I'm worried that the background noise may be too high (as the recommended is 16 ohms+) and the output impedence being too high (<1.4Ω 3.5mm/2Ω balanced (32Ω loaded)).

I know there's a low impedence module, but I will also be using it for my HD 6XX so the default module might be the best bet.


----------



## hbmorrison

I just returned my Q5. I kept having intermittent issues: the volume knob would stop responding, requiring a hard reset to fix; there would be unexplained cut-outs not caused by BT disconnection or the phone. Then, yesterday, a cut-out occurred and the unit just stayed that way. BT was connected, music player was playing music but nothing from two sets of headphones. Possibly something to do with the connection between the amp module and the Q5 but I am not waiting around to find out while I am still within the return period.


----------



## FiiO

hannahjherself said:


> I just returned my Q5. I kept having intermittent issues: the volume knob would stop responding, requiring a hard reset to fix; there would be unexplained cut-outs not caused by BT disconnection or the phone. Then, yesterday, a cut-out occurred and the unit just stayed that way. BT was connected, music player was playing music but nothing from two sets of headphones. Possibly something to do with the connection between the amp module and the Q5 but I am not waiting around to find out while I am still within the return period.


Dear friend,

Ok, sorry for the inconveninence bringing to you. We will still report to the engineer about that.

Best regards


----------



## khyaris

Hawaiibadboy said:


>



@Hawaiibadboy Could you compare the sound of the FiiO Q5 and the Hiby R3 ? I'm leaning towards returning my FiiO Q5 and buy a Hiby R3...


----------



## qsk78

Buy the R3 and use it as a transport for the Q5 ))


----------



## khyaris

qsk78 said:


> Buy the R3 and use it as a transport for the Q5 ))



Well i'm just against stacking : my smartphone + a portable DAC is enough.
I really don't see the point of having both in my case, since the R3 can work as a BT receiver as well (smartphone's app to R3's DAC). 
My stuff is not hard to drive (Focal Spirit Professional + Pinnacle P1) and I don't use balanced cables as of yet.

It's really about the sound quality in my case, how does the ES9028 compare to the AK4490 ?


----------



## snellemin

khyaris said:


> Well i'm just against stacking : my smartphone + a portable DAC is enough.
> I really don't see the point of having both in my case, since the R3 can work as a BT receiver as well (smartphone's app to R3's DAC).
> My stuff is not hard to drive (Focal Spirit Professional + Pinnacle P1) and I don't use balanced cables as of yet.
> 
> It's really about the sound quality in my case, how does the ES9028 compare to the AK4490 ?



You can't really compare just based of the Dac chip used.  Implementation is the biggest factor.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 20, 2018)

I have not heard the R3 yet, it will come in May only. But I doubt that you can really compare these two things sound wise - they are in different leagues by default. I'm talking about a wired connection.
To me the wireless does not make a lot of sense.


----------



## khyaris

qsk78 said:


> I have not heard the R3 yet, it will come in May only. But I doubt that you can really compare these two things sound wise - they are in different leagues by default. I'm talking about a wired connection.
> To me the wireless does not make a lot of sense.


It does make a lot of sense in my day to day use. 
I’m not sure these 2 things are in a different league by default when you consider the first 2 reviews of the R3 and the comparison with other DAP that have been made.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 20, 2018)

I tried wireless - degradation in sound quality, never will do it again. My 6 driver IEM were crying...


----------



## khyaris

Of course you have degradation with a lossless file through BT without LDAC codec. 
When you listen to Spotify premium I can’t hear the difference between usb and BT connection with APTX or AAC codec.


----------



## bflat

khyaris said:


> Of course you have degradation with a lossless file through BT without LDAC codec.
> When you listen to Spotify premium I can’t hear the difference between usb and BT connection with APTX or AAC codec.



Technical correction - LDAC is not lossless. Max transmit rate is 990 kbps. Sony claims LDAC can support 96/24 files. Uncompressed, that would require over 4.5 mbps. Best lossless compression to date is less than 50%, which would be a 2.5 mbps stream. 44/16 on the other hand is possible since a lossless compressed stream would only need about 700 kbps. Even then, 990 is the max LDAC rate in the most ideal conditions. It also supports 660 and 330 bit rates to scale with the quality of the BT signal. Those rates change on the fly so in real use, it's highly doubtful you are getting full 990 100% of the time.

Personally if I listen to an AAC file from a 24/96 master, I have hard time telling the difference. Pretty sure I would get at best 50% accuracy in a blind testing. I also like the practicality of AAC native BT streaming because it's low enough bandwidth that gives great battery life and works over a wide range fo BT connection quality. Great for portable listening.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## qsk78 (Apr 21, 2018)

Nice. AM3B? How is it in comparison with the AM3A? Worth the upgrade? Thanks.


----------



## scott s

So we know nothing lol. Subjective


----------



## 329161

scott s said:


> So we know nothing lol. Subjective


"We"?


----------



## khyaris

Well I backed the Hiby R3, whether I keep the Q5 or not is still undecided


----------



## scott s

dcfac73 said:


> "We"?


Us them whoever lmao


----------



## Makiah S

It's still uploading at the moment, but my video review is ready! Just refresh here in a few minutes and enjoy!


----------



## Tex Irie

Hawaiibadboy said:


>


Which Music app is that?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Tex Irie said:


> Which Music app is that?



That's Hiby player on a ipod touch gen6 stacked on the Q5 with AM3B amp


----------



## Tex Irie

Hawaiibadboy said:


> That's Hiby player on a ipod touch gen6 stacked on the Q5 with AM3B amp


Thank you for letting me know.  That's a nice looking interface.  How are you enjoying the Q5?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Tex Irie said:


> Thank you for letting me know.  That's a nice looking interface.  How are you enjoying the Q5?



Enjoying it a lot


----------



## snellemin

Man, the AM3B sounds nicer for some reason.


----------



## gto88

Highly interested in Q5 + AM3B, as it can connect to Z1R with 4.4mm balanced
with reasonable price.


----------



## superuser1

snellemin said:


> Man, the AM3B sounds nicer for some reason.


New toy syndrome? They are 100 mW more than the AM3A it I'm not mistaken?


----------



## snellemin (Apr 23, 2018)

superuser1 said:


> New toy syndrome? They are 100 mW more than the AM3A it I'm not mistaken?



I don't know man.  I'll see in a few days.  I really like the AM3 over the AM3A.  The AM3B sounds different to me, even though it's suppose to be like the AM3A.  The A has a single board, whereas the "B" has two boards inside the module.  Who know what other changes has been made.


----------



## snellemin

Slapped together some cables with the 4.4 for my 400I Hifiman and for my IEM's.  Used Mogami wires for the IEM cable.  Chopped up FIIO cables for the Hifiman.


----------



## qsk78 (Apr 24, 2018)

snellemin said:


> Man, the AM3B sounds nicer for some reason.


Can you please share more details? What is different from the AM3A?
I ordered my AM3B a couple of days ago.


----------



## snellemin

qsk78 said:


> Can you please share more details? What is different from the AM3A?
> I ordered my AM3B a couple of days ago.



I can't put my finger on the difference really, but to my ears it's there.  I'll be swapping between the 3 different balance amps this weekend and listen if I can "really" detect the difference.

My theory is that the AM3B does receive more more voltage on the main opamp vs the AM3A.  So it can be that the 8620 Opamp is running at a optimum range inside the AM3B, making the difference.  I heard this difference in sound, when I use to mess around with the smaller Muses opamps.  But it's just a theory inside my head.


----------



## snellemin

I went through all 3 balanced amp modules and my favorites are the original AM3 and AM3B.  The AM3A is a bit brighter to my ears and just doesn't have the finesse the 2 other modules give me.  Tested using DSD Bob Marley.  Nothing fancy.


----------



## andyk

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Enjoying it a lot




Did you get the Q5 for free?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

andyk said:


> Did you get the Q5 for free?











from my narcissistic emotional chariot of awesome I look down...and if i squint...and the sun ....reflecting my awesomeness is not too blinding.... I can almost see the...the  others...
Regular folks and....as if in a waking dream think I...I... was once one of them? ...then I open a box of something else free and add it to a bathtub of other free items and bathe in it and forget about it all


----------



## superuser1

Hawaiibadboy said:


> from my narcissistic emotional chariot of awesome I look down...and if i squint...and the sun ....reflecting my awesomeness is not too blinding.... I can almost see the...the  others...
> Regular folks and....as if in a waking dream think I...I... was once one of them? ...then I open a box of something else free and add it to a bathtub of other free items and bathe in it and forget about it all


----------



## franz12

Hawaiibadboy said:


> from my narcissistic emotional chariot of awesome I look down...and if i squint...and the sun ....reflecting my awesomeness is not too blinding.... I can almost see the...the  others...
> Regular folks and....as if in a waking dream think I...I... was once one of them? ...then I open a box of something else free and add it to a bathtub of other free items and bathe in it and forget about it all



I also was curious about this. I read some of your reviews. Do you have any disclosure policy whether the item you are reviewing is allowed to keep or must be send back? I was trying to find it, but couldn't.

Some review sites have explicit disclosure policy regarding this, but others not.

I like Q5 very much, but without the explicit disclosure policy, it is easy for a manufacturer to cherry pick a reviewer who is likely to write only good things.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

superuser1 said:


>



I just wanted to use that image I think.


----------



## bahamot

snellemin said:


> I went through all 3 balanced amp modules and my favorites are the original AM3 and AM3B.  The AM3A is a bit brighter to my ears and just doesn't have the finesse the 2 other modules give me.  Tested using DSD Bob Marley.  Nothing fancy.


AM3B on the way, thank you for ripping my wallet.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Hawaiibadboy said:


> from my narcissistic emotional chariot of awesome I look down...and if i squint...and the sun ....reflecting my awesomeness is not too blinding.... I can almost see the...the  others...
> Regular folks and....as if in a waking dream think I...I... was once one of them? ...then I open a box of something else free and add it to a bathtub of other free items and bathe in it and forget about it all



Hilarious! that made my day! 



franz12 said:


> I also was curious about this. I read some of your reviews. Do you have any disclosure policy whether the item you are reviewing is allowed to keep or must be send back? I was trying to find it, but couldn't.
> 
> Some review sites have explicit disclosure policy regarding this, but others not.
> 
> I like Q5 very much, but without the explicit disclosure policy, it is easy for a manufacturer to cherry pick a reviewer who is likely to write only good things.



Does it matter? At the end of the day, everybody is biased because everything they write in a review is filtered through their own preference an subjectivity.
So I think people stress to much about disclosure policies.
But watching his videos, you can easily conclude one thing: he doesn't give a crap about free or bought items or "pleasing" the manufacturer, he just states his genuine opinions. That's good enough for me.


----------



## franz12 (Apr 25, 2018)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Hilarious! that made my day!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Matter so much. It's matter of trust. I definitely don't trust reviews who don't have explicit disclosure policy.

Who knows that a review sacrifice other people to pursue his own personal benefit? You never know.

To protect this hobby and community, I vehemently argue that people must know who can be trusted. Disclosure policy is a just starting point. 

If you have nothing to hide, just disclose it.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

franz12 said:


> Matter so much. It's matter of trust. I definitely don't trust reviews who don't have explicit disclosure policy.
> 
> Who knows that a review sacrifice other people to pursue his own personal benefit? You never know.
> 
> ...



To each his own, but I try to know and form my opinion about a reviewer as a person by reading or watching a few of his reviews. That values to me more than a phrase like: "This item was given to to me free, in exchange of my honest and unbiased review". A phrase like that won't make me trust a reviewer more. Also in this hobby you better not blindly "trust" that what you read in a review will work for you. You try to read between the lines and try to extract some cues that will help you know if the item will match YOUR preferences. I learned that the hard way. "This sounds good", "This is the best", all ended up for sale too many times. So now I'm circumspect about any review "trusted" or not, and try to sample before buying as much as I can.


----------



## andyk

Hawaiibadboy said:


> from my narcissistic emotional chariot of awesome I look down...and if i squint...and the sun ....reflecting my awesomeness is not too blinding.... I can almost see the...the  others...
> Regular folks and....as if in a waking dream think I...I... was once one of them? ...then I open a box of something else free and add it to a bathtub of other free items and bathe in it and forget about it all





Hawaiibadboy said:


> from my narcissistic emotional chariot of awesome I look down...and if i squint...and the sun ....reflecting my awesomeness is not too blinding.... I can almost see the...the  others...
> Regular folks and....as if in a waking dream think I...I... was once one of them? ...then I open a box of something else free and add it to a bathtub of other free items and bathe in it and forget about it all




Expensive gift. Hasn't made it to your gear tag yet?


----------



## franz12

KopaneDePooj said:


> To each his own, but I try to know and form my opinion about a reviewer as a person by reading or watching a few of his reviews. That values to me more than a phrase like: "This item was given to to me free, in exchange of my honest and unbiased review". A phrase like that won't make me trust a reviewer more. Also in this hobby you better not blindly "trust" that what you read in a review will work for you. You try to read between the lines and try to extract some cues that will help you know if the item will match YOUR preferences. I learned that the hard way. "This sounds good", "This is the best", all ended up for sale too many times. So now I'm circumspect about any review "trusted" or not, and try to sample before buying as much as I can.


Whole point is just laughable


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Then laugh Franz! Laugh while you can. Soon you may be stressed and concerned again with some reviewers credibility.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## ClassicGOD

If anyone is interested in longer cables - I just tested Q5 with Lightning to USB Camera Adapter connected to Ugreen MicroUSB OTG adapter with USB A to A (also from Ugreen) cable. It works (including DSD),  Q5 light is solid (so no charging indication) so it shouldn't drain the iDevice battery.


----------



## snellemin

Hawaiibadboy said:


>




How are you liking the Fiio 4.4 dongle?  I ordered one today.  The advertised cable looks interesting.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

snellemin said:


> How are you liking the Fiio 4.4 dongle?  I ordered one today.  The advertised cable looks interesting.



Like it. cable is thick and stout and build is very good


----------



## sarga

Q5 is a great device, I have Q5 a few days. I use with W60 and SE846. Especially with the W60 great combination. The Bluethooth connection works with ipod 6g, Apple TV 4K. Samsung Note 8 and ipadAir2 are not working. In IOS, the Fiio Controller does not work when cable is connected. I do not know if I'm doing something wrong, thank you. Sorry google translator.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

sarga said:


> Q5 is a great device, I have Q5 a few days. I use with W60 and SE846. Especially with the W60 great combination. The Bluethooth connection works with ipod 6g, Apple TV 4K. Samsung Note 8 and ipadAir2 are not working. In IOS, the Fiio Controller does not work when cable is connected. I do not know if I'm doing something wrong, thank you. Sorry google translator.


For Bluetooth not connecting to Note 8: Have you tried first disabling the Bluetooth in iPod (or current connected device), then putting the Q5 in pairing mode and serching for it in Note 8? The Bluetooth should work with any phone.
The iOS app only works via Bluetooth, not cable. That is normal behaviour.


----------



## Franklin

sarga said:


> Q5 is a great device, I have Q5 a few days. I use with W60 and SE846. Especially with the W60 great combination. The Bluethooth connection works with ipod 6g, Apple TV 4K. Samsung Note 8 and ipadAir2 are not working. In IOS, the Fiio Controller does not work when cable is connected. I do not know if I'm doing something wrong, thank you. Sorry google translator.



Received my q5 yesterday. Some devices, like my LG G6 needs to try to connect some times to work (turn off BT on q5 and start pairing again at every time)... after first time with sucessful connect, they connect fine, without problems. I experienced the same situation with a friend's iphone se. Maybe it's the same situation for you and note 8.


----------



## snellemin

Franklin said:


> Received my q5 yesterday. Some devices, like my LG G6 needs to try to connect some times to work (turn off BT on q5 and start pairing again at every time)... after first time with sucessful connect, they connect fine, without problems. I experienced the same situation with a friend's iphone se. Maybe it's the same situation for you and note 8.




Once in a blue moon, I have the connection problem with the LG V20 as well.  But it's after I had sync'ed up the Q5 with some other unit, like laptops, tablets and desktop pc's.


----------



## Chorak290

@Hawaiibadboy 

Where did you get the micro usb to lightning cable you are using?


----------



## snellemin

Chorak290 said:


> @Hawaiibadboy
> 
> Where did you get the micro usb to lightning cable you are using?




One comes with the Q5.  But mine and somebody elses, don't sound right.  We both get better audio with the Apple camera kit.  Technically it doesn't make sense, as it's a digital signal being transferred.  But I can tell right away that my supplied cable effects my sound in a bad way.


----------



## bflat

snellemin said:


> One comes with the Q5.  But mine and somebody elses, don't sound right.  We both get better audio with the Apple camera kit.  Technically it doesn't make sense, as it's a digital signal being transferred.  But I can tell right away that my supplied cable effects my sound in a bad way.



There are technical differences:

CCK - converts native lightning MFi data to standard USB data before it reaches the Q5.
Fiio Cable - transmits lightning MFi data to Q5, and then Q5 internal MFi chip converts to USB data. This is also why you can't use the Fiio cable for any device that doesn't have built in MFi support.

Lightning (MFi) is basically an encrypted USB data stream that requires an MFi chip to decrypt. However, everything is done in the digital domain so how this difference may affect sound, I don't have any theory.


----------



## Chorak290

snellemin said:


> One comes with the Q5.  But mine and somebody elses, don't sound right.  We both get better audio with the Apple camera kit.  Technically it doesn't make sense, as it's a digital signal being transferred.  But I can tell right away that my supplied cable effects my sound in a bad way.



Yeah, and the one it comes with has way flimsier connectors than how his looks.


----------



## snellemin

Chorak290 said:


> Yeah, and the one it comes with has way flimsier connectors than how his looks.



It looks like the Cozoy cable.


----------



## jonmbarlow

Using a Samsung S8 with shanling l2 cable however the S8 seems to be charging the fiio whilst playing meaning a very quick battery drain....any way to stop this?


----------



## sarga

sarga said:


> Q5 is a great device, I have Q5 a few days. I use with W60 and SE846. Especially with the W60 great combination. The Bluethooth connection works with ipod 6g, Apple TV 4K. Samsung Note 8 and ipadAir2 are not working. In IOS, the Fiio Controller does not work when cable is connected. I do not know if I'm doing something wrong, thank you. Sorry google translator.


So I managed to break through all the devices. It just wants to check out past pairing carefully. The pity he does not contact does not connect with mac osx. I have an old mac (2010-11), so that's why it does not work.


----------



## Duncan

Well, I've just ordered the AM5 and the LC-Q5 case...

Not sure if I'll be happy with going from AM3A balanced to AM5 single ended, but - I've been turned by the reviews of the AM5 SQ...


----------



## Dobrescu George

FiiO Q5 and Dita Answer Truth Edition


----------



## scott s

Ugh. I am still torn between getting a q5 for my phone or a separate dap. The mass storage of the cayin n5ii or go for broke with the fiio x7ii. I could live with having to pop a different SD card into my phone but the library maintenance would be horrible lol. Withe the cayin n5ii I have a funny feeling I would end up adding a a5 amp??
What do you all think?


----------



## 325xia (Apr 28, 2018)

SE846 Modded Blue Filters with Spinfits. Makes the Q5 Pure Bliss


----------



## Dobrescu George

scott s said:


> Ugh. I am still torn between getting a q5 for my phone or a separate dap. The mass storage of the cayin n5ii or go for broke with the fiio x7ii. I could live with having to pop a different SD card into my phone but the library maintenance would be horrible lol. Withe the cayin n5ii I have a funny feeling I would end up adding a a5 amp??
> What do you all think?



Very different situations. 

Q5 has the same sound as X7mkii if using the same AMP module. 

N5ii might be able to take better advantage of Q5 in this situation. 

I used Hiby R6, Samsung T580 and Xiaomi Mi Max 2 with Q5. Hiby R6 was the best to stack with Q5 simply because of shape and size. You could have one device to do all with X7mkii though...


----------



## Duncan

Have to say that the Q5/AM5 is a rather nice little combination!

Will let the new module settle in before anything conclusive is said, however - yes, initial thoughts are very good!


----------



## jonmbarlow

Can anybody provide an answer to my previous question? Basically I would like to stop the q5 from charging when I connect my S8 via USB. Do I need a certain cable? I have been using Shanling L2 cable


----------



## Duncan

I don't have that problem with the S9+ so cannot comment, but - if it is an issue, can you not use the BT? - I'm using it and find it more than competent.


----------



## jonmbarlow

Don’t get me wrong the Bluetooth is very good but to get the optimum quality a wired connection is always preferable


----------



## Duncan

jonmbarlow said:


> Don’t get me wrong the Bluetooth is very good but to get the optimum quality a wired connection is always preferable


Personally, I find USB C OTG to poorly implemented compared to USB B - the number of disconnects that I have are so frequent that I gave up through sheer frustration - that is the main reason I went for the Q5 in the first place (other than the balanced output, which I've now negated with the AM5) - Otherwise I would've stuck with my Mojo...

Has to be said, for me - again, personally - using the AK T8ie, that if there is a difference between the two connection methods, that it is so small that I'm not hooked up about it.


----------



## jonmbarlow

Ok thanks for your input, I still would like to find a solution for the problem so that a cabled option is available, for the short time that I’ve used the USB option I myself can hear a difference but don’t want my S8 losing charge so rapidly whilst connected


----------



## scott s (Apr 29, 2018)

jonmbarlow said:


> Can anybody provide an answer to my previous question? Basically I would like to stop the q5 from charging when I connect my S8 via USB. Do I need a certain cable? I have been using Shanling L2 cable


Ya there is a cable on eBay. It is listed here in the first couple of pages or so on this thread but if you search oppo ha2 se cable you will find it. I will look and post a link!

Here is a link to it.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Left-An...t-both-ends-for-OPPO-HA-2SE-DAC-/292052970340


----------



## jonmbarlow

scott s said:


> Ya there is a cable on eBay. It is listed here in the first couple of pages or so on this thread but if you search oppo ha2 se cable you will find it. I will look and post a link!
> 
> Here is a link to it.
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Left-An...t-both-ends-for-OPPO-HA-2SE-DAC-/292052970340



You sir are a legend, thank you


----------



## Sonic Defender

@Duncan totally agree with you about Bluetooth. When well implemented it is as good as wired connection to my ears. If there are differences, they would be so small that they could at that point be explained by expectation. I would warrant that in blind listening tests people would not be able to reliably tell the difference between a good Bluetooth, or wired connection. I'm really looking forward to the Q5 arrival here. I have used many Bluetooth devices and currently have the iFi IOne so very curious to hear the Q5 Bluetooth implementation which I expect to be excellent.


----------



## andyk

Q5 dropping packets, studdering using aptX Bluetooth from Galaxy Note 4.

From IPhone 7 and Ipod 5th generation no dropped packets or studdering, but that is obviously lower bit rate.

Annoying.


----------



## Duncan (Apr 29, 2018)

I see there is a firmware version 0.52 on the Fiio website, but - when I try the installer it tells me there is a dll file missing - there are only two files in the installer...

Does anyone know how to coax this into life? 

Oops, special times - installed the Fiio USB driver,_ that_ was where the DLL was - well, I'm now trying upgrading from 0.48 to 0.52...

So, the firmware upgrade programme - I needed to run it in Windows 7 compatibility mode (it would just hang otherwise) - after that, we have:







Does anyone know what the difference is between 0.48 and 0.52?


----------



## Dobrescu George

jonmbarlow said:


> Can anybody provide an answer to my previous question? Basically I would like to stop the q5 from charging when I connect my S8 via USB. Do I need a certain cable? I have been using Shanling L2 cable



Can you try FiiO's cable? It worked fine for me and Q5 was not charging from any device I had it connected to


----------



## ClassicGOD

Duncan said:


> Does anyone know what the difference is between 0.48 and 0.52?


From Google translate:



> 1. Add USB1.0 drive-free mode, use: Press and hold the “previous” key to insert USB.
> 
> (Note: 1 Only in Q5, when the new production and marketed Q5 has this function, the driver-free function cannot be obtained after the Q5 firmware is already on the market. For this difference, the old user can collect it through the official sales platform—Tmall flagship store. Product coupons are compensated, if you need the drive-free function, you can also contact the after-sale factory to upgrade. 2 If you need to play DSD tracks on your computer, then you still have to install the Q5 USB DAC driver on your computer.)
> 2. Correct the opposite problem of "slow down" and "short delay down" in the DAC filter settings.
> 3. When the side data is corrected, the side port charging problem cannot be automatically activated.



source: http://bbs.fiio.net/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201804201612337828588

also there is BT firmware update (2.2 beta) here: http://bbs.fiio.net/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201803271059044086605

with the change log:


> The main changes to the Bluetooth firmware:
> 1. Added Q5 support for Android FiiO MUSIC APP
> 
> (Need to install the new version of the Fei Aole Music App. The specific APP will be on the shelves. Please pay attention to recent news)
> 2. Solve some bugs that go directly into pairing mode and backlink pairing


----------



## Duncan

@ClassicGOD You are a legend!

I've updated my BT too


----------



## 325xia

I have a question about DSD music files. I have some DSD music from HDTracks. Am using the Hiby App on my iPhone 7 and running it to USB cable on the Q5 from the Lightning connection. Cannot get the DSD to light up on the side of the Q5. Anyone else having problems playing DSD files on iOS?

Thanks


----------



## Sonic Defender

Duncan said:


> @ClassicGOD You are a legend!
> 
> I've updated my BT too


Updated the BT through the process that ClassicGod outlined, or did you do something separate?


----------



## Duncan

Sonic Defender said:


> Updated the BT through the process that ClassicGod outlined, or did you do something separate?


With the link provided above, followed the process (with a lot of help from Google Translate).


----------



## jonmbarlow

325xia said:


> I have a question about DSD music files. I have some DSD music from HDTracks. Am using the Hiby App on my iPhone 7 and running it to USB cable on the Q5 from the Lightning connection. Cannot get the DSD to light up on the side of the Q5. Anyone else having problems playing DSD files on iOS?
> 
> Thanks



I have a similar issue with my Samsung S8 using UAPP....playing DSD but the light refuses to come on....definately not playing through android in settings but i get a pop-up saying no DAC is connected

Any help appreciated!


----------



## scott s

jonmbarlow said:


> I have a similar issue with my Samsung S8 using UAPP....playing DSD but the light refuses to come on....definately not playing through android in settings but i get a pop-up saying no DAC is connected
> 
> Any help appreciated!



Just for a long shot are you absolutely sure  in settings in UAPP that you do not have the play DSD over PCM box checked?


----------



## jonmbarlow

I have native DSD checked


----------



## scott s

jonmbarlow said:


> I have native DSD checked



Ya thought it was along shot. How do you like the q5 paired with a phone. I am considering pairing a q5 with my axon 7 mini I but still torn between just getting a dap like fiio x7ii. I currently have a 200gb SD in my axon but 124/96 will eat that up fairly fast. Still a lot of music. The 400gb cards are still to costly lol. I really want to stick with my phone and double face vhb tape the q5 to the back to the clear tpu case. That way I can easily remove phone and maybe get another clear tpu case??


----------



## 325xia

I was able to resolve the issue of DSD light not coming On while playing DSD Files on the Q5. By default the Hiby App has DoP Offf in the Advanced Settings. Turning this On solved the problem.


----------



## jonmbarlow

Great pairing with my phone....bluetooth is the best implementation i've come across, just frustrated that i can't get DSD light to come on


----------



## jonmbarlow

325xia said:


> I was able to resolve the issue of DSD light not coming On while playing DSD Files on the Q5. By default the Hiby App has DoP Offf in the Advanced Settings. Turning this On solved the problem.



I will try this later....thanks


----------



## scott s

jonmbarlow said:


> Great pairing with my phone....bluetooth is the best implementation i've come across, just frustrated that i can't get DSD light to come on



Thanks. I will be hooked to a cable. My phone does not have aptX so I can't even transmit 16/44 to the q5. I have quite Abit of hi res. You do realize that DSD over Bluetooth if futile?


----------



## jonmbarlow

scott s said:


> Thanks. I will be hooked to a cable. My phone does not have aptX so I can't even transmit 16/44 to the q5. I have quite Abit of hi res. You do realize that DSD over Bluetooth if futile?



Yes i know DSD is wired only


----------



## Duncan

Update fw to 0.52, and / or connect power source to Q5 for DSD.


----------



## bflat

Q5 continues to surprise. Just took a 5 hour flight on Virgin America (Now Alaska Air) and tried the line in from the IFE to the Q5. All the terrible noise from the IFE went away and I got to use the infinitely better volume wheel of the Q5. Watched Thor Ragnorak and Justice League and the sound from the Q5 was so much better than just plugging my Katanas into the IFE headphone port. Q5 is the most versatile portable high end audio device that I have ever used!


----------



## franz12

Has anyone studied about what DAC filters in Q5 affect sound signature? 
I currently use Q5 as my desktop DAC hooked to MCTH (probably until D50 arrives). Honestly, I have been quite satisfied on this setup, which sounds better than my previous Mojo.


----------



## sarga

Duncan said:


> Update fw to 0.52, and / or connect power source to Q5 for DSD.


I have mac osx. Is there a possibility to update Q5? The exe file is suitable for windows. Thanks.


----------



## 329161

If listening to DSD made an audible difference, would it matter if the light was on? I mean, wouldn't you be able to tell you are listening to a DSD file just by listening to it? Just curious.


----------



## jonmbarlow

dcfac73 said:


> If listening to DSD made an audible difference, would it matter if the light was on? I mean, wouldn't you be able to tell you are listening to a DSD file just by listening to it? Just curious.



For me I simply want to know that my devices are operating correctly


----------



## alphanumerix1 (May 1, 2018)

LCQ5I stacking case which phones is it compatible with?


----------



## Brooko

alphanumerix1 said:


> LCQ5I stacking case which phones is it compatible with?



Says on their product page:


----------



## alphanumerix1

Missed that, Thanks.


----------



## jonmbarlow

Still can’t get this darned DSD light on, checked all settings in UAPP, updated firmware and it still won’t budge....maybe an android issue will try with my Sony ZX-300 when my cable arrives later today!


----------



## 325xia (May 1, 2018)

jonmbarlow said:


> Still can’t get this darned DSD light on, checked all settings in UAPP, updated firmware and it still won’t budge....maybe an android issue will try with my Sony ZX-300 when my cable arrives later today!


Maybe try the Hiby App. It’s free and works with my DSD’s. As long as you make sure that DoP is enabled.


----------



## andyk (May 1, 2018)

jonmbarlow said:


> Still can’t get this darned DSD light on, checked all settings in UAPP, updated firmware and it still won’t budge....maybe an android issue will try with my Sony ZX-300 when my cable arrives later today!



I have to chuckle, I suspect you will be left wanting if/when you get the DSD to light.
LOL, I downloaded demo Hi Resolution files from Oppo last night, 320 MP3, FLAC, MQA LOSSY packaged in a FLAC, Wav, DSD, and got my little DSD light to emit a low glow on the side of my Q5...big deal.

I clicked back and forth listening intently on my Sound Magic HP150's and I've come to a conclusion that although I scored very high on the "How well can you hear audio quality" test https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality I can't tell the difference between any ot the files.

I'm bored with the debate on MQA, FLAC, DSD, bit rate, etc. It's beyond my hearing capabilities. I can't hear better than CD quality. I'd rather spend my time searching for music than searching for some device that sounds better, I'm certainly not going to search for voodoo formats that are supposedly better than master quality (lol).

As far as the Q5 is concerned, I'm disappointed in more than one way. First for $350 this is not the leading edge of Bluetooth quality. There are two higher quality aptX Bluetooth protocols, aptX HD and aptX Low Latency, neither of which the Q5 supports. When I do use the aptX Bluetooth on the Q5, it studders once every song...every song...studders. (Firmware on Q5 updated to .52 and streaming FLAC from Samsung Note 4)

As an amp it's on the weak side at 160mW. This is the same output of the TEAC HP-150 that can be had for less than half the price, while sacrificing Bluetooth and DSD, and balanced output, but again...I can't hear the difference. So for me, the Q5 is a disappointment and an expensive one at that.


----------



## Chorak290

andyk said:


> I have to chuckle, I suspect you will be left wanting if/when you get the DSD to light.
> LOL, I downloaded demo Hi Resolution files from Oppo last night, 320 MP3, FLAC, MQA LOSSY packaged in a FLAC, Wav, DSD, and got my little DSD light to emit a low glow on the side of my Q5...big deal.
> 
> I clicked back and forth listening intently on my Sound Magic HP150's and I've come to a conclusion that although I scored very high on the "How well can you hear audio quality" test https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality I can't tell the difference between any ot the files.
> ...



Are you interested in selling your Q5 then?


----------



## 329161

andyk said:


> I have to chuckle, I suspect you will be left wanting if/when you get the DSD to light.
> LOL, I downloaded demo Hi Resolution files from Oppo last night, 320 MP3, FLAC, MQA LOSSY packaged in a FLAC, Wav, DSD, and got my little DSD light to emit a low glow on the side of my Q5...big deal.
> 
> I clicked back and forth listening intently on my Sound Magic HP150's and I've come to a conclusion that although I scored very high on the "How well can you hear audio quality" test https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality I can't tell the difference between any ot the files.
> ...


You can't hear the difference between flac  and hi res but you can between aptx and aptx HD?


----------



## Dobrescu George

dcfac73 said:


> You can't hear the difference between flac  and hi res but you can between aptx and aptx HD?



APT-X and APT-X HD both erase some content from the audible range of the sonc in the encoding process, the question is how much


----------



## andyk

dcfac73 said:


> You can't hear the difference between flac  and hi res but you can between aptx and aptx HD?



I never said that or implied that I could hear the difference between aptx and aptX HD. My comment was more along the lines of GEEZ, this is an expensive Amp/DAC and it doesn't even sport the latest and greatest technology.

As far as the aptX is concerned, I own the Q5 and can say it is dropping out on every single song, whether that is from FLAC on the Note 4 or streamed from Spotify.

Tried my GF Note 5 and same thing...so it's not the source.


----------



## bflat

Assuming one starts with a properly mixed 24/96 master, I doubt many folks could differentiate between lossless and lossy versions of the track in blind testing. Even less people will be able to differentiate between 44/16 and 24/96 in blind testing. MQA benefit has more to do with a verification of the master source. This is a big deal as some digital download sellers will just upsample an MP3 to FLAC and sell it as lossless. Even some CDs are sold with lossy files covered to PCM.

Photography works in a similar way. At a certain size(dynamic range) and viewing distance (volume), it is next to impossible to detect a JPG versus Lossless TIFF in side by side comparison if the original picture is properly exposed. However, if the original RAW is overexposed, JPG will make it look worse that is fairly easy to detect by eye.


----------



## franz12

bflat said:


> Assuming one starts with a properly mixed 24/96 master, I doubt many folks could differentiate between lossless and lossy versions of the track in blind testing. Even less people will be able to differentiate between 44/16 and 24/96 in blind testing. MQA benefit has more to do with a verification of the master source. This is a big deal as some digital download sellers will just upsample an MP3 to FLAC and sell it as lossless. Even some CDs are sold with lossy files covered to PCM.
> 
> Photography works in a similar way. At a certain size(dynamic range) and viewing distance (volume), it is next to impossible to detect a JPG versus Lossless TIFF in side by side comparison if the original picture is properly exposed. However, if the original RAW is overexposed, JPG will make it look worse that is fairly easy to detect by eye.



Just one thing. Photography is easier to discern because it is a static object. Sound is more difficult as it is fluid and quickly disappears. Usually, it is not a good idea to rely on audio memory, as it is indeed very poor. If you are not well trained, chances are that you won't find all those subtle differences in A/B tests.

But you will get to know about difference in your emotional responses in a long listening session.


----------



## bflat

franz12 said:


> Just one thing. Photography is easier to discern because it is a static object. Sound is more difficult as it is fluid and quickly disappears. Usually, it is not a good idea to rely on audio memory, as it is indeed very poor. If you are not well trained, chances are that you won't find all those subtle differences in A/B tests.
> 
> But you will get to know about difference in your emotional responses in a long listening session.



Good point. Although I must say that a hi-res photo of a double bacon cheeseburger certainly gets my emotions going LOL.


----------



## gavinfabl

How do you upgrade the firmware? Looking on Fiio website, there isn’t anything to download, other than upgrade tools and these appear to be for windows pc, I only have a Mac.


----------



## gavinfabl

Duncan said:


> Well, I've just ordered the AM5 and the LC-Q5 case...
> 
> Not sure if I'll be happy with going from AM3A balanced to AM5 single ended, but - I've been turned by the reviews of the AM5 SQ...



I have both of these. Case is great. Extra oomph of the AM5 is great for the dynamics.


----------



## 329161 (May 1, 2018)

andyk said:


> I never said that or implied that I could hear the difference between aptx and aptX HD. My comment was more along the lines of GEEZ, this is an expensive Amp/DAC and it doesn't even sport the latest and greatest technology.
> 
> As far as the aptX is concerned, I own the Q5 and can say it is dropping out on every single song, whether that is from FLAC on the Note 4 or streamed from Spotify.
> 
> Tried my GF Note 5 and same thing...so it's not the source.


Well, you want the q5 to "sport the latest and greatest technology", but you don't care about wired playback support for anything above cd quality? I personally can't spot the difference between 320 lossy or hi res, but your argument is puzzling.
However, I do think a light indicating file format is a bit redundant if there was truly an audible difference.


----------



## 329161

andyk said:


> As far as the aptX is concerned, I own the Q5 and can say it is dropping out on every single song, whether that is from FLAC on the Note 4 or streamed from Spotify.
> 
> Tried my GF Note 5 and same thing...so it's not the source.


Aptx Bluetooth drops out a little, but rarely on my q5, but you'll find the dropout rate with aptx hd to be worse than normal aptx.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

andyk said:


> I never said that or implied that I could hear the difference between aptx and aptX HD. My comment was more along the lines of GEEZ, this is an expensive Amp/DAC and it doesn't even sport the latest and greatest technology.
> 
> As far as the aptX is concerned, I own the Q5 and can say it is dropping out on every single song, whether that is from FLAC on the Note 4 or streamed from Spotify.
> 
> Tried my GF Note 5 and same thing...so it's not the source.


What Android version do you have on Note 4 / 5 ?
I had problems with drops with my HTC 10 after I upgraded to Android 8.0. Didn't have any problem with Android 7.0 on HTC. Also no drops with FiiO X5 3rd gen (Android 5.1)
I've read that Android 8.0 is buggy with Bluetooth on some devices. So that might be the problem.


----------



## sarga

I own the Westone W60 and I have the opportunity to buy Westone symmetrical 2.5 mm from Linum Denmark. Anyone please try symmetric output on Q5? Is there any sound shift?


----------



## qsk78

All multidriver BA IEM (unless they are not low impedance / high sensitive ones) will benefit from the 2.5 mm output.


----------



## Brooko

Why?


----------



## qsk78

Brooko said:


> Why?


Power


----------



## tim0chan

sarga said:


> I own the Westone W60 and I have the opportunity to buy Westone symmetrical 2.5 mm from Linum Denmark. Anyone please try symmetric output on Q5? Is there any sound shift?


You mean balanced? Yes there is a change in sound, for the better. But for the price, I would recommend u go for a different cable, for example, one from effect audio


----------



## Brooko

qsk78 said:


> Power



Sorry - I might be thick - but this doesn't make a lot of sense with relation to your statement:


> *All multidriver BA IEM *(unless they are not low impedance / high sensitive ones) will benefit from the 2.5 mm output.



For example my Big Dipper, 7 BA driver per side - impedance 25 ohm, sensitivity 115 dB/mW





so either SE or BAL will drive beyond pain barrier.

If I look at your own S-em6 V2, its roughly same calculation.

Balanced is absolutely needed where you have a high impedance headphone requiring more power output (eg my HD800S), but in the case of the Q5, the somewhat higher output impedance via the balanced out (2 ohm) may actually be detrimental to particularly low impedance multi-driver BAs (with crossovers) in some cases due to it changing frequency response (depends on the ear-phone).

If I look at very hard to drive IEMs (MEE P1 for example => 50 ohm, 96 dB/mW) - its a dynamic, but we're talking power here ....





SE will get it to deafening levels - at l;east 115 dB, and close to 120 dB

Can you give an example of a multi-BA that the SE can't handle?  Just so I can understand?  TIA.


----------



## qsk78 (May 3, 2018)

My S-EM6 v2 do not perform at all (sound unacceptable) directly from Vantam CML with 80 mW per channel, although the source is just the best if it can drive.
They do not perform directly from Cowon Plenue P1 with 2 VRMS.
They do perform well with a proper amplification regardless if it’s SE or balanced output.
160 mW on the SE of the Q5 I consider as not enough to drive 6 drivers properly!
I ordered the AM3B to have even more power.

I just know how they can sound with a proper amplification. I do not need to link any theory to it, I trust my ears.

When I say "perform" I do not talk about the loudness. To me the loudness does not mean performance.

And yes, the balanced output is better - channel separation, at least.

I had the W60, CA Jupiter in the past - they both were easier to drive than the S-EM6 V2.
But again more power does not spoil the sound.


----------



## Brooko (May 3, 2018)

So your opinion is based on subjective testing with one IEM (EarSonics S-EM6 V2), and you make a statement like:


> *All multidriver BA IEM* (unless they are not low impedance / high sensitive ones) *will benefit from the 2.5 mm output.*



Perhaps you'd like to modify that?  Its clearly incorrect.

Lets look a little deeper at the Q5 ......

It'll put 24mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 82 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 230 mW and balanced is 470 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill for an IEM.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage .......  Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 115 dB and on balanced is 115 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.001% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 99 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:


> The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.
> 
> The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.
> So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.


As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 97 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.
There are two other possibilities for differences:


The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 1.4 ohm (SE) vs 2.0 ohm (bal) output.

I use balanced all the time with my HD800S - but its because of the power, and because the HD800S is a headphone which needs that power.  I can assure you that none of my multi-BA IEMs (and I have easily around 25-30 by the time you count the hybrids too) need that sort of power,nor benefit from it.


----------



## qsk78

Ok. Not All but *some *)


----------



## FiiO

jonmbarlow said:


> Still can’t get this darned DSD light on, checked all settings in UAPP, updated firmware and it still won’t budge....maybe an android issue will try with my Sony ZX-300 when my cable arrives later today!


Dear friend, 

You may try the Hiby music APP to see if it helps? Can the DSD LED light up when playing DSD in the computer : How to play DSD files when Q1MKII/Q5 works as DAC for Windows computer

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

gavinfabl said:


> How do you upgrade the firmware? Looking on Fiio website, there isn’t anything to download, other than upgrade tools and these appear to be for windows pc, I only have a Mac.


Dear friend,

We don't have the upgrade tool for MAC, you may borrow a Windows computer for help. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards


----------



## gavinfabl (May 3, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We don't have the upgrade tool for MAC, you may borrow a Windows computer for help. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.
> 
> Best regards



That is disappointing. All my friends use Macs so now I'm unable to update my Q5. Surely as you move to make your devices working with Apple gear officially, it would make sense to have the update system work the same. I bought the  Q5 as it was also upgradeable.

a few pages back another Mac user asked the same question too. 

is there any other ways / help to achieve this updating please ?


----------



## oopsydaisy

FiiO said:


> We don't have the upgrade tool for MAC, you may borrow a Windows computer for help. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.


This is unacceptable in 2018. While there are still way more windows users out there, there are many Mac users as well. Not to mention, this device is meant to work with Apple devices, wouldn’t it make sense to be able to upgrade from Apple’s desktop/laptop OS? You guys need to hire an Apple developer.


----------



## hung031086

Any impressions with AM3B ? Anyone uses the Q5 with HE560 ? I saw the HE560 is on sale right now but dont know that Q5 can drive it or not.


----------



## snellemin

hung031086 said:


> Any impressions with AM3B ? Anyone uses the Q5 with HE560 ? I saw the HE560 is on sale right now but dont know that Q5 can drive it or not.


Drives my 400i just fine through the 4.4 output.  Don't see why it wouldn't do well with the 560.


----------



## gazzington

I've ordered one of these today and I'm intending to partner it with my ipod touch 6th gen. Can't wait for it to arrive


----------



## khyaris

I have a question regarding LDAC @FiiO

Every android phones with 8.0 will get the possibility to stream through BT LDAC, which means the codec doesn't need a specific chipset to work (contrary to aptx).
Hiby is trying to get a certification from Sony for Hiby R3.

What prevents the Q5 from getting LDAC ?


----------



## KaiFi (May 4, 2018)

Tried the Q5 with the AM5 but noticed that every song I play (whether on YouTube or iTunes) is cut off a little bit at the beginning when I start it. It's less than a second cut off, but I do notice it and it's awful.   Anything that can be done to prevent that or is that just how the AM5 is? (It doesn't happen with the included AM3A). Though I prefer the sound of AM5, I'm willing to return it and just use the AM3A.

I'm using the Q5 via USB with 2017 MacBook Pro.


----------



## Dobrescu George

FiiO AM3B sure is sweet  

Another great one from FiiO!


----------



## Duncan

So @Dobrescu George the question is, do I stick with the AM5 (and AM3A if feeling a balanced frame of mind), or is the AM3B sufficiently good enough to get, alongside a 4.4mm mmcx cable (and a new case for the Q5)?

Sell me the virtues


----------



## Duncan

KaiFi said:


> Tried the Q5 with the AM5 but noticed that every song I play (whether on YouTube or iTunes) is cut off a little bit at the beginning when I start it. It's less than a second cut off, but I do notice it and it's awful.   Anything that can be done to prevent that or is that just how the AM5 is? (It doesn't happen with the included AM3A). Though I prefer the sound of AM5, I'm willing to return it and just use the AM3A.
> 
> I'm using the Q5 via USB with 2017 MacBook Pro.


 definitely not how it is with Bluetooth / USB on Android, have you tried resetting the Q5?


----------



## Makiah S (May 6, 2018)

Did a full write up of various portable products today! Here's my dedicated Q5 excerpt





Fiio's Q5 is a portable DAC/Amp featuring a dual AK 4490EN Chipset and a focus on wireless connectivity via BluTooth. Priced at $349 via Amazon, the Q5 also has a module Amp design with a dedicated 3.5mm sigle ended line out, dedicated digital Coax/Optical input and both 3.5mm single ended and 2.5mm fully balanced output for the headphone amp section.

In terms of sound quality, I found it's USB Performance to be some what stuffy or hazy sounding. I listened to a variety of different DAC/Amps with my Cell/PC, using the same cables, tracks and software suites. An each time the Q5 just sounded stuffy.

 Overall it's performance was most impressive with Optical Input from my iRiver H140. Thus I continued to listen and my my assessment of it with this input, despite Optical being a usually sub-par digital input VS USB.

 While I didn't listen to it with Bluetooth I found many of my subscribers were impressed with it's BluTooth Quality. Non the less with a hard wired optical in I found the Q5 to be;

Fairly Neutral
Tonality did change slightly depending on the file format
At times it was very natural
Other times it was a bit hard and rougher sounding

Having a thicker full low end
Fairly Smooth on the Top
Quite cohesive with good precision
So if you happen to own an older Digital Audio Player like the ole school iRiver Models the Q5 is a great way to use their Optical output and breath life back into them! I in-fact really enjoyed the pairing of the Q5 with my own iRiver H140. I had a Source with lot's of storage and a quick Graphic Interface and a DAC/Amp that I could pair it with so I got the best out of both devices!





I also enjoyed the Q5 with my wife's iPhone. It's included iPhone friendly Case was super convenient, so in terms of pure convenience for iPhone users the Q5 is un-matched!





Additionally I have to say the unique iPhone Case for the Q5 was the easiest portable solution to carry. As the phone retained full functionality with the DAC/Amp tucked  neatly away behind it.

Still overall based on my experience with both inputs, I felt that with USB the Q5 was not competitive there are other products that sounds better or equivalent for much less. Optical though was really very impressive for some reasons, sadly though optical isn't a convenient nor common input/output method much these days. So overall I can't really recommend this product, unless your an Optical User. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...able-dac-amplifier.22846/reviews#review-20277


----------



## Dobrescu George

Duncan said:


> So @Dobrescu George the question is, do I stick with the AM5 (and AM3A if feeling a balanced frame of mind), or is the AM3B sufficiently good enough to get, alongside a 4.4mm mmcx cable (and a new case for the Q5)?
> 
> Sell me the virtues



Hey Duncan,

I think it really depends on what kind of sound you'd enjoy the most!

AM3B thickens the sound to a good degree, it is warm and thick on the 3.5mm unbalanced output. Really thick and warm, but well extended, svelt and powerful 

Like an AM03A on Bass Steroids I'd say, but with power between AM03A and AM05 

With Xelento, things might get too thick or too bassy, but this is a match made in heaven for Dita Truth and lighter / thinner sounding IEMs with less bass.


----------



## KaiFi (May 4, 2018)

Duncan said:


> definitely not how it is with Bluetooth / USB on Android, have you tried resetting the Q5?



Tried resetting it, still happens. 

Maybe it wouldn't happen with Bluetooth or Optical? Not sure, but don't really have a choice with my MBP and that's my main source. I think it has to do with the way the AM5 "clicks on" (and actually makes a clicking sound unlike the other modules--clearly it works a little differently than the other ones).

I'm also thinking of trying the AM3B, but since I don't have balanced headphones, its benefits might be a little lost on me. Though some people are indicating that the 3B sounds better than the 3A, even with the 3.5mm output.


----------



## Dobrescu George

KaiFi said:


> Tried resetting it, still happens.
> 
> Maybe it wouldn't happen with Bluetooth or Optical? Not sure, but don't really have a choice with my MBP and that's my main source. I think it has to do with the way the AM5 "clicks on" (and actually makes a clicking sound unlike the other modules--clearly it works a little differently than the other ones).
> 
> I'm also thinking of trying the AM3B, but since I don't have balanced headphones, its benefits might be a little lost on me. Though some people are indicating that the 3B sounds better than the 3A, even with the 3.5mm output.



If by better you mean thicker and warmer, yes, then it sounds better. `

The best module, technically speaking, to my ears, is still AM05 on an overall level


----------



## KaiFi (May 4, 2018)

So I've done some experimenting and realized the "cutting off" problem is not limited to one amp module, it happens with any module, with any computer, with any sound source as long as it's hooked up through USB. It does not seem to happen with Bluetooth.

I also realize now that the problem began when I upgraded the firmware to 0.52 yesterday.

Is there any way to downgrade to the old firmware? Wow I wish I wouldn't have done that...what a mistake


----------



## Brooko

Mshenay said:


> *So if your more concerned with ease of ownership than you are sound quality,* I have to say the unique iPhone Case for the Q5 was the easiest portable solution to carry. As the phone retained full functionality with the DAC/Amp tucked neatly away behind it.



I read it.  I think you are overstating the virtues of the N5ii and understating the qualities of the Q5 (but that's just my personal take).  No mention of the regular glitches with the N5ii (suddenly stopping ion the middle of playback for instance) - well documented, and experienced first hand by me.  That negates a 5 star ranking for a starter.

I do not hear the quality difference between the two devices you have noted.  Q5 has changed the way I think about listening portably.  I prefer it + iPhone SE to almost all of my DAPs now.  Mainly ease of use - as sound quality with all the higher end is pretty much on a par.  Small nuances in different presentation.  Not inferior - just different.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brooko said:


> I read it.  I think you are overstating the virtues of the N5ii and understating the qualities of the Q5 (but that's just my personal take).  No mention of the regular glitches with the N5ii (suddenly stopping ion the middle of playback for instance) - well documented, and experienced first hand by me.  That negates a 5 star ranking for a starter.
> 
> I do not hear the quality difference between the two devices you have noted.  Q5 has changed the way I think about listening portably.  I prefer it + iPhone SE to almost all of my DAPs now.  Mainly ease of use - as sound quality with all the higher end is pretty much on a par.  Small nuances in different presentation.  Not inferior - just different.



I second the convenience part of using Q5 + a smartphone. Not exactly one device, but FiiO nailed the word convenience hard with this one. You have the power of X7mkii with AM05, at the fingertips of a smartphone.


----------



## franz12

Brooko said:


> Sorry - I might be thick - but this doesn't make a lot of sense with relation to your statement:
> 
> 
> For example my Big Dipper, 7 BA driver per side - impedance 25 ohm, sensitivity 115 dB/mW
> ...



is this 100db (moderate) different from one would measure with the app like decibel x? Hard to believe that 100db is considered as moderate!


----------



## franz12

Mshenay said:


> Did a full write up of various portable products today! Here's my dedicated Q5 excerpt
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, I agree that the optical input is far superior than the usb input. The optical input is cleaner, transparent, and more linear. Initially, I wasn't impressed with the usb input. Only after I hooked it via TOSLINK to Macpro, I don't miss my Hugo anymore.

In fact, I only used Bluetooth input when I travel though. Didn't bother yet to connect it via USB to my IPhone.


----------



## Brooko

franz12 said:


> is this 100db (moderate) different from one would measure with the app like decibel x? Hard to believe that 100db is considered as moderate!



I agree - and I wonder if the number is more related to speakers, and at a different distance from the ear.  For me, my normal listening level is around 65-75 dB, and anything above 80dB gets a little uncomfortable fairly quickly.  What it does show though is that the Q5 really has no issues driving the HD800S in balanced mode.


----------



## Brooko

franz12 said:


> Actually, I agree that the optical input is far superior than the usb input. The optical input is cleaner, transparent, and more linear.



How can it be?  Both optical and USB are digital inputs to the DAC.  they are feeding a digital signal (a series of 1's and 0's) to the DAC where they are decoded to analog.  They go through same DAC and same amp.  So how can one sound different?  Did you volume match when comparing?


----------



## franz12 (May 5, 2018)

Brooko said:


> How can it be?  Both optical and USB are digital inputs to the DAC.  they are feeding a digital signal (a series of 1's and 0's) to the DAC where they are decoded to analog.  They go through same DAC and same amp.  So how can one sound different?  Did you volume match when comparing?



Honestly, I don't know about technical details, though some people have talked about USB galvanic things. I have yet to pay some attention to technical details when I have time.

Honestly, I might not be able to pass A/B tests. But I use headphones quite heavily, perhaps more than 5-6 hours per day. After a long listening session, I found my satisfaction and immersion with music went to another level.

EDIT: But I use Q5 with the desktop amp MCTH. So the case might be a bit different.


----------



## snellemin

I use tweaked cheapo dacs to some better stuff.  Old and new.  The Q5 sounds as good to me as the Sony pha-3, which sounds really really analog.  And that is what we want, isn't. 

To me the supplied apple cable sounds like crap to my ears.  Using a regular well shielded usb cable made the difference for me.

I will rant a bit:

So I can understand when it is said that USB sounds "dull" to some  It is due to it sounding natural and doesn't have the old school digital "harshness" that the younger crowd has crown up with.  To them that sounds "normal". 
Anyways, to me I'll say this again.  The DSD conversion that is happening inside ak dac, is where the Q5 shines.  And using the line out is where the magic is heard in my system.  Use Jriver to convert any CD that you have listened too over a 100 times and convert it to DSF.  No special effects.  And have a listen again through to the same familiar songs, this time using the Q5 to decode the DSF.  You will hear a difference.  And if you don't, well what can I say without being rude. 

Now using the 3 amp modules that I have, they each bring a sound signature of their own.  They all sound different vs what comes out of the Line-out.  I don't need to sound match any of them,to tell that they sound different.  They all have different hardware and run at different voltages.  Of course they will sound different, due to so many variables.  Every selected component that makes up your electronic device has a tolerance of some sort and changes with temperature. And this called Distortion.  You just have to design the product where the distortion is beyond human hearing.   

There are some that like that "reference" sound.  Others like that boring "flat" sound. Some like to the analytical setup to pick out every little detail out of a song, while at the same time not actually enjoying the music. Others like their stuff to sound musical and with those systems you can jam out for hours on end.  Not the others.  So classify yourself first and see where you fit in.  Buy the products based on how you like to listen to stuff.
I like my setup to do all of the above and that is why I use all kind of hardware and software to get me there.  New Dacs are at the stage where they all sound good now.  You just have to pick on the one that has been well implemented and that fits your style of listening. The Q5 is up there with it's sound quality.  You can spend plenty more, just to hear a micro difference that you will forget within the first minute of listening.


----------



## Dobrescu George

franz12 said:


> Honestly, I don't know about technical details, though some people have talked about USB galvanic things. I have yet to pay some attention to technical details when I have time.
> 
> Honestly, I might not be able to pass A/B tests. But I use headphones quite heavily, perhaps more than 5-6 hours per day. After a long listening session, I found my satisfaction and immersion with music went to another level.
> 
> EDIT: But I use Q5 with the desktop amp MCTH. So the case might be a bit different.



Welp, in that situation Q5 acts solely as a DAC  

The DAC inside sure is potent 


----


As for the USB vs other inputs, I honestly just use what is most convenient. In this case, it sure is USB from my smartphone. I can't say I hear a big difference between USB and other digital inputs, but I surely didn't focus on that, I think that the key word here is convenience. I find it simply too convenient to use the USB part.


----------



## Duncan

I find personally, compared to the mojo, the form factor, control layout (and associated functionality), and SQ / drive to be in favour of the Q5/AM5...  With the extra amp module in tow, they go head to head on more than just pricing...

A real credit to FiiO if you ask me!


----------



## gazzington

Love q5. I've paired it with an ipod touch 6th gen. Sounds incredible and that's just using apple music.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Looking forward to testing the Q5. I will be using it primarily with Bluetooth, but I will also compare it with other inputs. Hey Brooko, it must feel liberating not to have that moderator tag and be able to actually just post as a member again! Did you also test the Bluetooth?


----------



## Brooko

I use Bluetooth more than I use wired connections now.  The big difference is FiiO implementing the conversion through the AKM DACs.  Its hands down the best portable DAC/amp (in terms of total package) I've used to date.


----------



## qsk78 (May 5, 2018)

For a usb connection I use a high quality cable from In-akustik plus the ifi audio iSilencer 3.0.  I cannot say that the the optical is superior than this combination.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Brooko said:


> I use Bluetooth more than I use wired connections now.  The big difference is FiiO implementing the conversion through the AKM DACs.  Its hands down the best portable DAC/amp (in terms of total package) I've used to date.


Yes, that is what I'm really looking forward to as well. I wonder if iFi does a similar thing with the iOne? Even normal Bluetooth implementations not as technically appointed as the Q5 still sounds fantastic so I am quite intrigued by the notion that the Q5 may have a noticeably better sounding Bluetooth experience.


----------



## franz12

Mshenay said:


> .....
> I've come to accept that cables have an impact on the sound. As a student I've learned how destructive noise can be
> 
> ...



Of course, cables do matter. I don't like spending thousands on cables, but what I learned so far is that I must avoid crappy cables at least. I changed my line out-RCA cable from a crappy one ($5) to a less crappy one ($10), and the difference between two was quite noticeable.


----------



## Dobrescu George

My review on FiiO Q5 is live now! 

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.ro/2018/05/fiio-q5-rule-them-all.html 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...able-dac-amplifier.22846/reviews#review-20281

I invite you to read more about this lovely device and why I find it to be so amazing


----------



## qsk78

Nice review. Especially it is valuable to know about the AM3B combination with the Q5. My amplifier will arrive in 3-5 days.
Hope to get a full synergy with my neutral IEMs.


----------



## Dobrescu George

qsk78 said:


> Nice review. Especially it is valuable to know about the AM3B combination with the Q5. My amplifier will arrive in 3-5 days.
> Hope to get a full synergy with my neutral IEMs.



Thank you! 

Hope it brings lots of fun to you!  

Don't forget to share your experience with us!


----------



## KaiFi

Another issue I've noticed with the Q5:

-I leave the Q5 plugged into my Mac's USB port all day even when the computer is off.
-I start up the computer.
-The computer recognizes that the Q5 is plugged in.
-I turn the Q5 on.
-I play a song and the song won't play and there is no sound.
-I either have to unplug the Q5 and plug it back in or shut it off and turn it on again to get the music to play.

Anyone else have this problem?

I really want to like this thing, but it's giving me quite the headache...


----------



## gto88

KaiFi said:


> Another issue I've noticed with the Q5:
> 
> -I leave the Q5 plugged into my Mac's USB port all day even when the computer is off.
> -I start up the computer.
> ...


I guess that your Mac needs to recognize it as "default" sound device.
You may want to check if you Mac's preference.


----------



## KaiFi

gto88 said:


> I guess that your Mac needs to recognize it as "default" sound device.
> You may want to check if you Mac's preference.



But that's the thing. It _is_ recognizing it as the default; the Q5 just isn't "activating". When I unplug it, the music immediately starts playing through the on-board speakers, meaning it was trying to play through the Q5 earlier but the Q5 wasn't responding.


----------



## franz12

Dobrescu George said:


> My review on FiiO Q5 is live now!
> 
> https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.ro/2018/05/fiio-q5-rule-them-all.html
> 
> ...



Good review, but one question. I have not heard X7, but it uses ESS9028pro DAC. Q5 uses 2xAK4490. I believe there should be some sonic difference between two as they use different DAC chips. I don't know which one would be better than the other though.


----------



## franz12

KaiFi said:


> But that's the thing. It _is_ recognizing it as the default; the Q5 just isn't "activating". When I unplug it, the music immediately starts playing through the on-board speakers, meaning it was trying to play through the Q5 earlier but the Q5 wasn't responding.



My mac pro retina 15' (2015) works fine with it. If you can, I suggest you to use the optical output via toslink, though the newest mac doesn't support it.


----------



## KaiFi

franz12 said:


> My mac pro retina 15' (2015) works fine with it. If you can, I suggest you to use the optical output via toslink, though the newest mac doesn't support it.



And I have the newest Mac. Isn't that great? lol

Maybe I'll get a Schiit Eitr...I would rather use Coax/Optical. I know people often say it sounds better.


----------



## gto88

It would be prefect if AM3B can be selected when purchasing Q5, with it plus BL44, the AM3A
will not be needed.


----------



## KaiserTK

The bluetooth AptX and AAC connection on the Q5 was really clean sounding. 
It’s a bit unfortunate that the bluetooth on the xDSD I’m using now can sound a bit grainy at times.


----------



## bflat

KaiFi said:


> And I have the newest Mac. Isn't that great? lol
> 
> Maybe I'll get a Schiit Eitr...I would rather use Coax/Optical. I know people often say it sounds better.



Go with bluetooth. Your Mac has Aptx and anything you stream on your Mac will be just as good as wired. Try it and I bet you can't hear a difference.


----------



## AxelCloris

Just a heads-up that we removed some off-topic discussion. Thanks everyone.


----------



## TheoS53

Got the Q5 a few days ago. Really impressed with the sound so far. Unfortunately, I can't get it to properly work over USB with my Galaxy S7, Hidizs AP60, or Shanling M2s as it's constantly trying to charge the battery when connected to those devices .And yes, I did attempt to change the charging function via the Fiio app on an iOS device, but no luck. Connected to an iOS device has been pretty much flawless so far.


----------



## Dobrescu George

KaiFi said:


> Another issue I've noticed with the Q5:
> 
> -I leave the Q5 plugged into my Mac's USB port all day even when the computer is off.
> -I start up the computer.
> ...



I experienced this once or twice, but wasn't able to reproduce it properly or detect what caused it, so I think it was the fault of my computer having lots of drivers and lots of stuff going on. I didn't notice it every single time, and it usually worked right, so I think I did something different when that happened. So we know it is also fixable  



franz12 said:


> Good review, but one question. I have not heard X7, but it uses ESS9028pro DAC. Q5 uses 2xAK4490. I believe there should be some sonic difference between two as they use different DAC chips. I don't know which one would be better than the other though.



They use different DACs, and they should sound different, but the differences in the final sound are so small that they won't be quite that important. I mean, double blind testing, volume matched properly, if they are using the same AMP module, the sound is too similar to properly say where the difference is coming from, since you are using a USB cable there, you are using a different source, etc. 

I just advice to treat them as the same sonic performance when using the same AMP module, given the difference in device type, go with what suits your needs better  

Q5 is not a DAP, it needs transport, it needs stacking, whwere X7mkii is a TOTL DAP  

But sonically, they are really close


----------



## scott s

TheoS53 said:


> Got the Q5 a few days ago. Really impressed with the sound so far. Unfortunately, I can't get it to properly work over USB with my Galaxy S7, Hidizs AP60, or Shanling M2s as it's constantly trying to charge the battery when connected to those devices .And yes, I did attempt to change the charging function via the Fiio app on an iOS device, but no luck. Connected to an iOS device has been pretty much flawless so far.[/QUOTE
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Left-An...t-both-ends-for-OPPO-HA-2SE-DAC-/292052970340


----------



## Bibo

I am using this one from FiiO and it works flawlessly:

https://fiio-shop.de/kabel/404/mm03-micro-usb-zu-micro-usb


----------



## Brooko

My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/


----------



## snellemin

Brooko said:


> My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/




This is probably one of the best reviews I have read in a very long time.  Well put together man, including the pics!


----------



## Zachik

Brooko said:


> My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/


Excellent review, as I have learned to expect from Brooko 
I must add that when starting with this hobby 2-3 years ago, Brooko's reviews were key for me in my research and eventually choosing my first DAP (FiiO X3-II). 
Brooko has been VERY kind and patient in answering my newb questions back then!  
@Brooko  - hope to meet with you F2F eventually, and buy you beer


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brooko said:


> My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/



Nice review  

Seems that you also found Q5 and X7mkii ti sound the same, so I'm not going crazy. 

And yes, I did volume mathcing before just to try reduce user error as well.


----------



## demond (May 8, 2018)

Brooko said:


> My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/


I used my limited English level, with the help of Google translation, to finish read your words. It is very complete and very attentively. Thank you very much for your sharing.


----------



## bahamot (May 9, 2018)

AM3B just arrived, a quick listening I found it has no background noise and sounds warmer than AM3A. Listening through Ibasso IT01.


----------



## earfonia

FiiO said:


> FiiO Q5, the mightiest Bluetooth/DSD DAC&Amp ever, available now： https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...etooth-dsd-dac-amp-ever-available-now.870185/
> 
> You may try the New Version v1.3.2 of FiiO Music iOS App to control FiiO Q5 via Bluetooth:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...f-fiio-music-ios-app-is-now-available.870184/



When the Fiio Music App will be available for Android? 
I just bought Fiio Q5, like the sound and feature, but disappointed to know that there is no App to monitor the battery level and change the digital filter, in Android. I don't have Apple iOS. Any plan to launch the Android App?

Thanks!


----------



## earfonia

Tysun said:


> I remember Fiio has stated that, I do not recall the exact sentences, but the main point being below:
> 
> Due to large fragmentation of Android devices having different versions of Android as well as different OEM implementations, also older devices having Micro-USB port and newer devices having USB-C port, it is difficult to have official support for Android.
> 
> ...



I think he meant is Fiio Music App for Android to monitor the Q5 via Bluetooth, not about USB connection to Android device.


----------



## earfonia

bahamot said:


> AM3B just arrived, a quick listening I found it has no background noise and sounds warmer than AM3A. Listening through Ibasso IT01.



I just tested my Q5 today, the 3.5mm headphone output on the AM3A is very clean with no noticeable noise. But the 2.5mm balanced output is very noisy. Any idea why? Is it a problem specific to the AM3A 2.5mm output? Tx!


----------



## qsk78

earfonia said:


> But the 2.5mm balanced output is very noisy. Any idea why?


 Dead silence in my case with s-em6 v2.


----------



## earfonia

qsk78 said:


> Dead silence in my case with s-em6 v2.



Thanks! I will go to the store to test other AM3A module. Maybe this my module got something wrong.


----------



## Brooko

earfonia said:


> Thanks! I will go to the store to test other AM3A module. Maybe this my module got something wrong.



Mine seems to be dead quiet also. Wonder if its an outlier?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Brooko said:


> My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/





snellemin said:


> This is probably one of the best reviews I have read in a very long time.  Well put together man, including the pics!



Agree! Excellent review, and it came out the same day I received my own Q5 unit  
So last night I enjoyed listening to it for the first time and reading your review at the same time.


----------



## FiiO

earfonia said:


> When the Fiio Music App will be available for Android?
> I just bought Fiio Q5, like the sound and feature, but disappointed to know that there is no App to monitor the battery level and change the digital filter, in Android. I don't have Apple iOS. Any plan to launch the Android App?
> 
> Thanks!


Dear friend,

We have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try. 

Best regards


----------



## bzxfire40

Im really intrigued by the q5. Looking to compare it with other devices . Is there any dac/amp combo on the market (any price range) with a similar build to the q5 (stack friendly ), audio performance equal to or better and a optical input?


----------



## jonmbarlow

Can you connect the Sony WH-1000xm2 to the Q5 to control the volume or is this not possible?


----------



## qsk78 (May 10, 2018)

Playing with VanNyus handbag..still can not decide yet which option is better)


----------



## Duncan

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try.
> 
> Best regards


I'd love to, but I cannot download


----------



## Lay.

Duncan said:


> I'd love to, but I cannot download



+1

It won't finish the download.


----------



## snellemin

Played with the FIIO app on my LG V20 most of the day.  I kept hearing random pops while playing music.  Doesn't happen with my other music apps.

I also received a AM5 today and must say that it sounds really good with the Hifiman 400i.  I don't like how I can't use my 3.5mm TRRS with the module, unlike any other FIIO amp I have.


----------



## int_architect (May 11, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try.
> 
> Best regards


Installing now... 

_e_: via LG V10 app played DSD and mp3 files fine, but FLAC was dead silent even though the track was playing. Selecting anything from Recently Played list causes app to crash every time. App stopped working after that. Would be nice to have them same level of Q5 control offered in iOS app, and swipe gestures.


----------



## earfonia (May 11, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try.
> 
> Best regards



It works! Tx!
I hope the lowpass filter can also be accessible using the Fiio Control Panel in Windows.


----------



## earfonia

Brooko said:


> Mine seems to be dead quiet also. Wonder if its an outlier?



I hope so. Next week I will go to the dealer and test other AM3A module. I tried with a few IEM same result. I can hear hiss on 2.5mm output while the 3.5mm output using the same IEM is dead quiet.


----------



## jonmbarlow

Lay. said:


> +1
> 
> It won't finish the download.



Same here won't download for me neither


----------



## FiiO

Duncan said:


> I'd love to, but I cannot download


Dear friend,

Try this instead: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrwef6l4ky32yfs/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk?dl=0

Best regards


----------



## bahamot

More and more liking the AM3B module


----------



## qsk78

bahamot said:


> More and more liking the AM3B module


Is that 4.4 mm output you are talking about?


----------



## Dobrescu George

bahamot said:


> More and more liking the AM3B module



Those liking a thick and warm signature will surely love it 

Just think about all those AK lovers who will switch to FiiO because of AM3B lol


----------



## bahamot

qsk78 said:


> Is that 4.4 mm output you are talking about?


Yeah, listening the 4.4mm balanced output through Ibasso CB12+CA02+IT01.


----------



## Duncan

I have to say I kind of find the Q5/AM5 combination amusing, I should quantify, I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on portable audio over the years, yet FiiO, from their humble beginnings have made a combination of products that I just cannot fault, I've had this for a few weeks now, and I'm still finding new reasons to smile, just doesn't seem to put a foot wrong.

I'm glad I didn't go for the Q1mkII and instead went for the big boy, these days I have neither the time not patience to write epic reviews like have popped up on the last few pages, what I can say is though, that this is enjoyment on a whole new level, and those words are coming from someone as long in the tooth at this game as me.

I surely wish that this little combination was available a few years back, it would have saved me an absolute fortune on the gear that I have bought (and not sold on) that is sat slowly decaying.

Thank you to the designers at FiiO for making a blisteringly good range of products!


----------



## Franklin

earfonia said:


> It works! Tx!
> I hope the lowpass filter can also be accessible using the Fiio Control Panel in Windows.



Don't works here with LG G6 connected to Q5 via Bt (firmware v0.52 here). I can play with the app but the Fiio Q5 option doesn't appear on configuration menu. Did you any trick to works?


----------



## Duncan

Franklin said:


> Don't works here with LG G6 connected to Q5 via Bt (firmware v0.52 here). I can play with the app but the Fiio Q5 option doesn't appear on configuration menu. Did you any trick to works?


Do you have the newest BT firmware from a couple of pages back? From what I understand that improved connectivity for Android?!


----------



## Franklin

Duncan said:


> Do you have the newest BT firmware from a couple of pages back? From what I understand that improved connectivity for Android?!



No, i saw it but I don't have it installed. Probably is that!  Thank you...


----------



## 329161

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try.
> 
> Best regards


Is this app just a music player? There doesn't seem to be any controls to change the q5 settings.


----------



## Duncan

dcfac73 said:


> Is this app just a music player? There doesn't seem to be any controls to change the q5 settings.


Have you updated the Bluetooth firmware? Can confirm shows perfectly fine for me...

BT firmware is a couple of pages back.


----------



## LetheFB

Are you using an android phone?I have installed the app to 3 different android phones and the result is same with you. Maybe, Q5 has to be updated to be controlled by an android phone via FiiO Music App? 



dcfac73 said:


> Is this app just a music player? There doesn't seem to be any controls to change the q5 settings.


----------



## jonmbarlow

dcfac73 said:


> Is this app just a music player? There doesn't seem to be any controls to change the q5 settings.



Same for me, latest firmware installed


----------



## Duncan

I will say again, there is separate firmware for the Bluetooth...  THAT is what is needing to be updated.


----------



## 329161

Duncan said:


> Have you updated the Bluetooth firmware? Can confirm shows perfectly fine for me...
> 
> BT firmware is a couple of pages back.


Any chance of a link? I can only see a link for the music app.


----------



## int_architect

dcfac73 said:


> Any chance of a link? I can only see a link for the music app.



See this post for links...



ClassicGOD said:


> From Google translate:
> 
> source: http://bbs.fiio.net/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201804201612337828588
> 
> ...


----------



## int_architect

Updated bluetooth firmware and the app works well. Some initial hiccups with audio playback, but seems to have been sorted out. Haven't yet gone back to test USB connection. FiiO, the spinning album artwork is a nice touch.


----------



## 329161 (May 12, 2018)

Gotta say this process isn't all that smooth or professional. Not happy that all these features were advertised and not being available to android, also you have to go digging around for obscure links to update the firmware. Companies like Fiio and Ibasso have always been subpar with this sort of product support.
Just looked at the instructions for updating the bt fw, and it looks pretty complicated. I don't think I'm going to bother. This process is just too complicated and painful for a consumer grade product.


----------



## 329161

Duncan said:


> I will say again, there is separate firmware for the Bluetooth...  THAT is what is needing to be updated.


If I'm connected via USB, why do I need to upgrade the bt fw for the Fiio music app to function properly?


----------



## Duncan

Because the Q5 communicates via BT for the app info, same whether iOS or Android


----------



## 329161 (May 12, 2018)

Has anyone else managed to upgrade the bt fw? The instructions are a little ambiguous. I've tried several times without success. Frustrating!!! Why?!!
To anyone who has successfully updated, can you provide any tips?


----------



## Duncan

Post 2003 just up there a little 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-134#post-14235394


----------



## Duncan

dcfac73 said:


> Has anyone else managed to upgrade the bt fw? The instructions are a little ambiguous. I've tried several times without success. Frustrating!!! Why?!!
> To anyone who has successfully updated, can you provide any tips?


So long as the driver is installed on a Windows PC, turn on Bluetooth, but make sure nothing is paired to it (ie switch off your cellphones BT), hold down back and forward buttons at the same time for a few seconds, plug in the USB cable into the left hand port, and hit go on the windows application, should be good to go


----------



## 325xia (May 12, 2018)

dcfac73 said:


> Gotta say this process isn't all that smooth or professional. Not happy that all these features were advertised and not being available to android, also you have to go digging around for obscure links to update the firmware. Companies like Fiio and Ibasso have always been subpar with this sort of product support.
> Just looked at the instructions for updating the bt fw, and it looks pretty complicated. I don't think I'm going to bother. This process is just too complicated and painful for a consumer grade product.



I agree. Why can’t the BT/FW be updated via the App., as opposed to all this Windows nonsense? Or just an easier, user friendly experience with Windows. It’s too complicated.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (May 13, 2018)

dcfac73 said:


> Has anyone else managed to upgrade the bt fw? The instructions are a little ambiguous. I've tried several times without success. Frustrating!!! Why?!!
> To anyone who has successfully updated, can you provide any tips?



IMO the best tip is to wait for an official release here http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/53
Otherwise you risk bricking your device. The source for the Bluetooth firmware update seems to be an internal development page only in Chinese language and that firmware is in beta stage.
But I agree that even the official Q5 firmware upgrade process here is very unprofessional when it says "Firmware upgrade finished successfully" but in fact the process is not complete, requiring one more cable disconnect and reconnect...
That final step 7 should be mentioned in the tool itself. Looks more like a hack tool instructions than an official firmware upgrade for a flagship product...

I think it would be better if FiiO develops a separate Q5 Settings App for Android and iOS and not include it in FiiO music. It makes no sense to install an 100MB+ app when I don't need FiiO Music but only need to have the settings for Q5 available.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Since updating my HTC 10 to Android Oreo 8.0 I'm also having Bluetooth signal drops when playing music with aptX enabled.
Found a workaround in the "Developer Options" changing "Bluetooth Audio Sample Rate" from 48.0 to 44.1 kHz with aptX or selecting the AAC codec. 
With 44.1 or AAC the drops are almost gone, but I have to re-apply that settings every time I connect Q5 because they don't stick.
Also, sometimes Bluetooth app crashes. I contacted HTC but they don't want to acknowledge the problem and insist that FiiO Q5 must be the problem.
I tested my Q5 with some other Android smartphones with aptX and with my iPad with absolutely no problems. 
Can @FiiO contact HTC about this problem or work with them to solve it?


----------



## Duncan

I can confirm that Galaxy S9 on Oreo, with AptX 16/44 works as far as I'm concerned, flawlessly, which leads me to think it's an HTC problem.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Duncan said:


> I can confirm that Galaxy S9 on Oreo, with AptX 16/44 works as far as I'm concerned, flawlessly, which leads me to think it's an HTC problem.



Xiaomi Mi Max 2 and Samsung T580 also work flawlessly


----------



## KopaneDePooj (May 14, 2018)

@FiiO is it possible to implement such a setting:
*Settable battery percent for charging to auto start when Q5 is ON.*

I use my Q5 90% of the time at my work desk connected to my PC.
The charging always kicks in maybe when the battery is at 98% or 95%
Then maybe 10% of the time I use it with my smartphone.
This way the battery never goes to full charge / discharge cycles.
When used at my desktop I would like the charging to kick in at 40% or lower. (user settable).
Or is it possible to implement a setting to switch off charging completely through bottom USB and use only side USB for charging? That way we could avoid Q5 getting charged by smartphone regardless of cable type.


----------



## earfonia

Franklin said:


> Don't works here with LG G6 connected to Q5 via Bt (firmware v0.52 here). I can play with the app but the Fiio Q5 option doesn't appear on configuration menu. Did you any trick to works?



No trick, I downloaded to my Lenovo tablet, Android 7.1, installed and it just works.


----------



## Franklin

earfonia said:


> No trick, I downloaded to my Lenovo tablet, Android 7.1, installed and it just works.



Thank you... i needed to upgrade BT firmware to beta version. After that all works fine.


----------



## qsk78 (May 14, 2018)

Warmer, more bass weight, perfect highs, musical... but slower than am3a - just first minutes impressions. And this is with neutral S-EM6 V2.


----------



## milkyspray

how does the Q5 compare to lg v series? should i get the lg v30 or Q5 for sound quality alone?


----------



## FiiO

dcfac73 said:


> Gotta say this process isn't all that smooth or professional. Not happy that all these features were advertised and not being available to android, also you have to go digging around for obscure links to update the firmware. Companies like Fiio and Ibasso have always been subpar with this sort of product support.
> Just looked at the instructions for updating the bt fw, and it looks pretty complicated. I don't think I'm going to bother. This process is just too complicated and painful for a consumer grade product.


Dear friend,

We will released the Bluetooth update instuction in English soon. Updating the firmware would not affect most daily useage. But you could get more features added or bugs fixed.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> Since updating my HTC 10 to Android Oreo 8.0 I'm also having Bluetooth signal drops when playing music with aptX enabled.
> Found a workaround in the "Developer Options" changing "Bluetooth Audio Sample Rate" from 48.0 to 44.1 kHz with aptX or selecting the AAC codec.
> With 44.1 or AAC the drops are almost gone, but I have to re-apply that settings every time I connect Q5 because they don't stick.
> Also, sometimes Bluetooth app crashes. I contacted HTC but they don't want to acknowledge the problem and insist that FiiO Q5 must be the problem.
> ...


Dear friend,

We would report to our engineer about that but we could not confirm whether HTC would help solve it. You may contact them about this as well.



KopaneDePooj said:


> @FiiO is it possible to implement such a setting:
> *Settable battery percent for charging to auto start when Q5 is ON.*
> 
> I use my Q5 90% of the time at my work desk connected to my PC.
> ...



Currently, we doesn't have the plan for adding the feature you mentioned.
Best regards


----------



## qsk78

Installed the AM3A back, the AM3B is not my cup of tea...too warm and slow


----------



## FiiO

qsk78 said:


> Installed the AM3A back, the AM3B is not my cup of tea...too warm and slow


AM3A is your cup of tea instead? Enjoy it! 

Best regards


----------



## qsk78

FiiO said:


> AM3A is your cup of tea instead? Enjoy it!
> 
> Best regards



Yes, absolutely! Thank you.

BTW, any plans to introduce a dedicated 2.5 mm balanced amp module?


----------



## FiiO

qsk78 said:


> Yes, absolutely! Thank you.
> 
> BTW, any plans to introduce a dedicated 2.5 mm balanced amp module?


Currently, no.

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj

I love the bass boost on the Q5!
Helps a lot with thinner recordings, takes the edge off harsher vocals and ads just the right amount of oomph. 
Especially with my HD 598. Don't need EQ anymore and they sound so much better with Q5 hardware bass boost.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (May 18, 2018)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Since updating my HTC 10 to Android Oreo 8.0 I'm also having Bluetooth signal drops when playing music with aptX enabled.
> Found a workaround in the "Developer Options" changing "Bluetooth Audio Sample Rate" from 48.0 to 44.1 kHz with aptX or selecting the AAC codec.
> With 44.1 or AAC the drops are almost gone, but I have to re-apply that settings every time I connect Q5 because they don't stick.
> Also, sometimes Bluetooth app crashes. I contacted HTC but they don't want to acknowledge the problem and insist that FiiO Q5 must be the problem.
> ...



Digging more into this issue with Bluetooth not working properly with HTC 10 running Android 8.0 Oreo, I found this:

1. If the "Use high-quality audio:aptX" checkbox is *checked* BEFORE connecting the Q5, it will connect in 48.0 kHz mode and it will have audio signal drops. Afterwards checking / unchecking that checkbox will not change the 48.0 kHz value with aptX. When unchecking it, the SBC mode is 44.1 kHz but when reverting back to aptX it will go into 48.0 kHz.
2. If the "Use high-quality audio:aptX" checkbox is *unchecked *BEFORE connecting the Q5, it will connect in SBC mode at 44.1 kHz. Then if checking that box and using aptX, *it will stay in 44.1 kHz mode for aptX too!* Checking / unchecking the box many times, it stayed at 44.1. In this mode aptX 44.1 kHz the audio drops are almost zero.
I checked the values in "Developer options" menu.

*Recap:* *To use aptX with no problems, make sure you first connect in SBC mode (box unchecked BEFORE connecting). After connecting, switch to aptX mode (box checked).*
_Edit: If aptX still has gaps (it still has occasionally for me), select AAC in "Developer options". I listened today for 2 hours with no drop in AAC mode. I found no audible difference between aptX and AAC. AAC seems to be better implemented and tested by FiiO because is the codec that Apple devices use._

@FiiO please inform your engineer about this behaviour. Maybe he can fix it with HTC, they (HTC) won't talk to me and won't aknowledge the problem


----------



## turbo87

So how does the Q5 compare to the iFi xDSD? I know some on here have both.


----------



## snellemin

So since FIIO has yet to come up with a high powered balanced module, I resorted to making two adapters for my Balanced amps.  I'm am actually pleasantly surprised how well the setup sounds.  Anyways since the AM3B is my favorite amp for the Q5, I made up some adapters using Mogami for the RS amp and Norne OCC for the Ibasso PB2.


----------



## milkyspray

I think my unit may be defective,  the line in sounds worse than the bluetooth feature,  is this normal?


----------



## franz12

milkyspray said:


> I think my unit may be defective,  the line in sounds worse than the bluetooth feature,  is this normal?



 I don't know whether it is normal, but it's possible. Some Mojo poly users claimed that wireless connection is better than some other connections because it is free from various forms of jitter.


----------



## Kolapso

Just arrived


----------



## Duncan

I am out and about all day, with blissful tunes courtesy of the Q5/AM5...  wonder if the battery will last the journey, this is my very first continuous test...  hoping it’ll make it to about 9hrs...


----------



## 325xia

milkyspray said:


> I think my unit may be defective,  the line in sounds worse than the bluetooth feature,  is this normal?


My Q5 definitely has better sound quality through USB than BT. I only use BT when stacking is not convenient.


----------



## Duncan

325xia said:


> My Q5 definitely has better sound quality through USB than BT. I only use BT when stacking is not convenient.


Is it connecting via AptX or SBC when using BT?


----------



## 325xia (May 19, 2018)

Duncan said:


> Is it connecting via AptX or SBC when using BT?


It’s whatever Apple sends via BT on iPhone 7Plus. I’ve heard it’s AAC, which sounds good. Obviously when playing DSD with Hiby App there is a difference from USB and BT connection. Still a difference with AFLAC USB vs BT. Just my take. I avoid BT whenever possible.


----------



## Duncan

Well, my battery has finally given out... 9hrs10mins with the AM5 at “sensible” volume throughout on BT I think is rather admirable...  better than certain competitors I could mention


----------



## KaiFi

The battery life on this thing is surprisingly good. Seems like just a couple hours with the Chord Mojo on and the light was already orange (one away from red, that is).


----------



## milkyspray

FiiO said:


> Currently, no.
> 
> Best regards


Can you tell your team to expedite the development of your fiio music app for android?  I need to be able to access the filters because as of now the device sounds like the sabre dac in my Lg V20. I need a different sound or I'll have to return the product to the store.  I asked in the forum how it would compare before I bought it but no one said anything.


----------



## Exit

Plan to buy Q5 to pair with IE800 S on the go. Could anyone shed some light on which amp module I should get. Considering between am3b and am5.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Exit said:


> Plan to buy Q5 to pair with IE800 S on the go. Could anyone shed some light on which amp module I should get. Considering between am3b and am5.



AM5  

Much more useful if you'll upgrade down the road, or if you'll get a pair of over-the-ear headphones, especially if those will be hard to drive 

AM3B is better only if you are looking for the thickest sound possible form Q5, otherwise AM5 is more universal, more natural tone, larger soundstage, better PRaT and better dynamics.


----------



## Brooko

Exit said:


> Plan to buy Q5 to pair with IE800 S on the go. Could anyone shed some light on which amp module I should get. Considering between am3b and am5.



You'rte only driving IEMs - so stick with the included balanced AM3A module.  If you are driving headphones needing more power later, you can either add an AM5 (if you want single ended) or simply use the balanced socket.

I use balanced with my HD800S and its pretty good.


----------



## Exit

@Brooko @Dobrescu George thank you very much for your insightful advice.


----------



## snellemin

I like the AM3B more over the AM3A.  For my style listening, the AM3B and the first gen AM3 has more lowend and better dynamics for my IEM's.  Rumbles my JVC's too.  But the AM5 has way more dynamics when driving fully size headphones.


----------



## Duncan

I like the AM5 compared to AM3A with IEMs, provides extra dynamics IME...

Haha, everyone has a different opinion it would seem.

For the record, I have not heard the AM3B.


----------



## FiiO

milkyspray said:


> Can you tell your team to expedite the development of your fiio music app for android?  I need to be able to access the filters because as of now the device sounds like the sabre dac in my Lg V20. I need a different sound or I'll have to return the product to the store.  I asked in the forum how it would compare before I bought it but no one said anything.


Dear friend,

As we mentioned before, we have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try.

Best regards


----------



## HiFiChris

My full take, including some measurements: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...able-dac-amplifier.22846/reviews#review-20347


----------



## Joewoof

Hey guys... Just have an inquiry... Hope I'm not breaking forum rules... I'm not using mine much and would rather get a pool cue... I will post it in the for sale section but I have no idea what would be a fair price... I would say it's in 9.5/10 condition and has the leather case and (2) usb / USB c cables that doesn't drain the battery... Thx for the tip


----------



## Dobrescu George

HiFiChris said:


> My full take, including some measurements: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...able-dac-amplifier.22846/reviews#review-20347



Nice photos!~ 

F/1.8?


----------



## FiiO

And here is the intruction for update the firmware for the Q5 system and bluetooth:
Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 System Firmware
Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 Bluetooth Firmware

Best regards


----------



## jokobuba

earfonia said:


> It works! Tx!
> I hope the lowpass filter can also be accessible using the Fiio Control Panel in Windows.


Hello, how can i acces this menu in Android? I dont see anything like this in fiio music app... thx


----------



## KopaneDePooj

FiiO said:


> And here is the intruction for update the firmware for the Q5 system and bluetooth:
> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 System Firmware
> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 Bluetooth Firmware
> 
> Best regards



Can you please provide some release notes regarding what's changed in the new system and Bluetooth firmwares?
Why is BT firmware in beta stage provided for upgrade? I'd rather wait and install a stable release. Will one be available soon?


----------



## Brooko

Just installed.  The Bluetooth performance is greatly improved (range and stability) - with my iPhone SE.  Thanks FiiO - completes the Q5 IMO.  I know ti may not be the same for Android users, but for an iOS / iPhone user - this now becomes a "perfect" product!


----------



## Joseph Lin (May 24, 2018)

FiiO said:


> And here is the intruction for update the firmware for the Q5 system and bluetooth:
> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 System Firmware
> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 Bluetooth Firmware
> 
> Best regards


Please help, the first link provided by the instruction shows no such key

Cannot find *USB DAC driver for Q1Mark II/Q5*


----------



## Joewoof

Brooko said:


> Just installed.  The Bluetooth performance is greatly improved (range and stability) - with my iPhone SE.  Thanks FiiO - completes the Q5 IMO.  I know ti may not be the same for Android users, but for an iOS / iPhone user - this now becomes a "perfect" product!



I wonder if bluetooth 5.0 is on now


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Joseph Lin said:


> Please help, the first link provided by the instruction shows no such key
> 
> Cannot find *USB DAC driver for Q1Mark II/Q5*



Link on the right side of page here works:
http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/53


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Brooko said:


> Just installed.  The Bluetooth performance is greatly improved (range and stability) - with my iPhone SE.  Thanks FiiO - completes the Q5 IMO.  I know ti may not be the same for Android users, but for an iOS / iPhone user - this now becomes a "perfect" product!


Glad to hear that! Beta firmware or not, I think I'll install it after all, maybe it solves my Bluetooth problems.
Some release notes from FiiO would be welcome though.


----------



## 325xia

Joseph Lin said:


> Please help, the first link provided by the instruction shows no such key
> 
> Cannot find *USB DAC driver for Q1Mark II/Q5*



Same here. This is with Windows 10


----------



## bahamot

FiiO said:


> And here is the intruction for update the firmware for the Q5 system and bluetooth:
> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 System Firmware
> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 Bluetooth Firmware
> 
> Best regards


Upgraded without issues, thanks.


----------



## 325xia

Trying to upgrade BT with your instructions. Trying to install USB DAC Driver. Can’t find the “Q1Mkii under the “Sound Video and Gamecontroller” in Device Manager after Executing the FiiO Wizard. The only thing under “Sound Video and Gamecontroller” is “Conexant ISST Audio”

This is so frustrating


----------



## snellemin

Upgrading the unit firmware was no problem.  The BT upgrade doesn't work.  Driver installs but cannot be seen in device manager.


----------



## Joewoof

Upgraded without any hitches!


----------



## Joewoof

snellemin said:


> Upgrading the unit firmware was no problem.  The BT upgrade doesn't work.  Driver installs but cannot be seen in device manager.



You probably already tried but did you restart the computer?
I didn't see it in device manager until I connected the unit


----------



## snellemin

Joewoof said:


> You probably already tried but did you restart the computer?
> I didn't see it in device manager until I connected the unit


Yes, I restarted and nothing.  Uninstalled it and tried again.  Still nothing.  Tried it on a few computers and nothing.  

It's all good though.  The unit works and that is what matters.  I'm just wondering what the firmware update on the unit itself brings on the table.


----------



## Joewoof

snellemin said:


> Yes, I restarted and nothing.  Uninstalled it and tried again.  Still nothing.  Tried it on a few computers and nothing.
> 
> It's all good though.  The unit works and that is what matters.  I'm just wondering what the firmware update on the unit itself brings on the table.




Did you press forward and backward at the same ttime after you connected?


----------



## snellemin

Joewoof said:


> Did you press forward and backward at the same ttime after you connected?


Yes I did.  I'll try it again when I'm home.


----------



## Brooko

Does the computer you’ve been using actually have a Bluetooth dongle or internal Bluetooth? I needed to plug one to my PC for toot to show up. Then choose USB option.


----------



## William1953

snellemin said:


> Yes I did.  I'll try it again when I'm home.


Had the same problem, the problem Q5 was connecting to my iPad,  I switched off the iPad Bluetooth, worked fine, CRS BlueCore then appeared in device manager under USB when the Q5 was connected to my windows 10 PC upgraded sounds great. So you need to make sure all other devices connected previously with Q5 have their blue tooth turned off


----------



## snellemin

I hit the reset button on the Q5 and everything went ok after that.  The hard part was finding a small enough paperclip to do so.....


----------



## milkyspray

Trading my q5 for cd3000


----------



## HiFiChris (May 26, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> Nice photos!~
> 
> F/1.8?



For some reason I didn't get a notification that you quoted me.
Anyway - no, those photos were taken at APS-C, 30 mm, between f3.2 and f5.6


On a related note: AM1 module review posted: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...-x7-x7-mkii-and-q5.23126/reviews#review-20360

As hinted in my Q5 review, for me personally, it is my choice over the bundled AM3A. Bit sad that it was discontinued.





(f2.8, focus set at the headphone jack)


----------



## HiFiChris (May 26, 2018)

- double post -


----------



## 329161

I don't see why firmware updating for this is such a PITA. For Dragonfly Red - one file download for the file manager, everything else was automated. It recognised current fw, it downloaded and installed the update automatically. No having to go through acrobatic button pushes, or messages saying the fw was installed successfully when it wasn't. This is a consumer audio product, not a military grade weapon. Also, why are Android users treated like 2nd class customers? Just shabby.


----------



## Dobrescu George

HiFiChris said:


> For some reason I didn't get a notification that you quoted me.
> Anyway - no, those photos were taken at APS-C, 30 mm, between f3.2 and f5.6
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting! 

I asked because the depth of field was quite like you'd been using a smaller F/number  

BTW, interesting impresson over the AMP modules, I clearly hold AMP5 as my favorite, interesting that we have a different opinion on this.


----------



## Joewoof

dcfac73 said:


> I don't see why firmware updating for this is such a PITA. For Dragonfly Red - one file download for the file manager, everything else was automated. It recognised current fw, it downloaded and installed the update automatically. No having to go through acrobatic button pushes, or messages saying the fw was installed successfully when it wasn't. This is a consumer audio product, not a military grade weapon. Also, why are Android users treated like 2nd class customers? Just shabby.



I think there are levels of difficulty... The dragonfly being super easy... The Q5 isn't thaaaaaat hard....


----------



## 325xia

dcfac73 said:


> I don't see why firmware updating for this is such a PITA. For Dragonfly Red - one file download for the file manager, everything else was automated. It recognised current fw, it downloaded and installed the update automatically. No having to go through acrobatic button pushes, or messages saying the fw was installed successfully when it wasn't. This is a consumer audio product, not a military grade weapon. Also, why are Android users treated like 2nd class customers? Just shabby.



I totally agree. I’m still trying to get it to update. I’ve given up. I’ll send it back to Fiio if I hear it’s some major update. Otherwise, I’ll keep enjoying it. Everything works well. So, I’m happy in that regard.


----------



## Sonic Defender

As an Android user I am wanting a quality application; however, I understand that with the various implementations of Android it is far more difficult for companies like FiiO to do this. I am sure that we'll get there, but we have to wait, which is cool as long as it happens and is well done. I still avoid the Apple ecosystem thing, but I get why for developers it is so easy as they know exactly what they are writing for without different flavours to contend with. Ultimately companies still have to do well by Android users as we do represent a much, much larger segment of the market than do Apple users so Android users will get accommodated.


----------



## 329161

Joewoof said:


> I think there are levels of difficulty... The dragonfly being super easy... The Q5 isn't thaaaaaat hard....


Begs the question, why is the q5 update process not super easy? The Fiio staff responsible for sw/fw just aren't up to speed with more professional companies like Astell, Audioquest, Sony etc. This is also evident in Some of Fiios other products such as their daps. Ibasso are notorious for this unpolished approach as well.


----------



## Joewoof

dcfac73 said:


> Begs the question, why is the q5 update process not super easy? The Fiio staff responsible for sw/fw just aren't up to speed with more professional companies like Astell, Audioquest, Sony etc. This is also evident in Some of Fiios other products such as their daps. Ibasso are notorious for this unpolished approach as well.



Your complaints are legitimate... But also remember it's a young company... I'm gonna let them dictate where the efforts/money get directed to... The end goal for the company is to do well


----------



## 325xia

Joewoof said:


> I think there are levels of difficulty... The dragonfly being super easy... The Q5 isn't thaaaaaat hard....



Maybe you could make a video to show just how easy it is?


----------



## 329161 (May 26, 2018)

Joewoof said:


> Your complaints are legitimate... But also remember it's a young company... I'm gonna let them dictate where the efforts/money get directed to... The end goal for the company is to do well


It's not going to do well if it has a reputation for poor performance in these areas. Customer satisfaction should be even more important for a young company. Frustrating your customers is not a good policy. Can you imagine if Samsung or Apple had update procedures this complicated? Literally millions of complaints. But they don't, because they're professional. The whole process is just poorly implemented. You don't need to be a product/software engineer to realise this.
I knew Fiio were one of these companies with flaky sw/fw/ui issues, that's why I refuse to buy any of their daps. I bought the q5 because I didn't think there could be significant issues with fw with a dac/amp. I'm actually really wanting to update the fw on the q5 because the bt stutters more than what is usual for my other bt products. If I can't get it to update, I'll have to live with this substandard feature.


----------



## 329161

Sonic Defender said:


> As an Android user I am wanting a quality application; however, I understand that with the various implementations of Android it is far more difficult for companies like FiiO to do this. I am sure that we'll get there, but we have to wait, which is cool as long as it happens and is well done. I still avoid the Apple ecosystem thing, but I get why for developers it is so easy as they know exactly what they are writing for without different flavours to contend with. Ultimately companies still have to do well by Android users as we do represent a much, much larger segment of the market than do Apple users so Android users will get accommodated.


I get what your saying, and it may be a good point, but I don't know of any other cross OS product where either android or Apple gets so stiffed. My Dragonfly updated and works flawlessly with all of my android products. I really can't see a legitimate excuse.


----------



## Sonic Defender

dcfac73 said:


> I get what your saying, and it may be a good point, but I don't know of any other cross OS product where either android or Apple gets so stiffed. My Dragonfly updated and works flawlessly with all of my android products. I really can't see a legitimate excuse.


I'm not talking about the update process, I just received the Q5 yesterday and I'm not sure that I'm going to do any updating unless there is some viable reason to do. Are you referring to the update process, or the lack of an application here? I would like an Android application as well, but it does sound like they are on it. I remember many also feeling slighted by Audeze when they made the Apple enabled Cipher inline module for the Sine, but no Android equivalent. I have to admit I stopped following the Sine so I'm not sure if they ever came out with an Android equivalent? Despite it all, I get that Apple users have this very slight advantage, but they pay dearly for it upfront so I'm willing to write it off as a reasonable cost of Android. Cheers mate.


----------



## Sonic Defender

And not to make it seem like I'm picking on your points, which are valid for sure, but it wasn't that long ago in this hobby that we paid step prices for products that could never be updated, or minimally so and with all kinds of issues so even this somewhat convoluted process is at least a path forward. Your point is well taken and fair, and I'm sure eventually FiiO will have a more user-friendly, stream-lined process for updates. maybe I will try it later just to see what it is like.


----------



## Sonic Defender

My initial impressions from listening last night are, Damn, this does sound fine. I'm really looking forward to spending some great time with the Q5, primarily Bluetooth as I believe wireless is the path of the future full out and I hope to shine a spotlight on it. There should be no need for cables (hopefully) very soon, and in all sincerity I have to say that well done Bluetooth seems transparent to me and I am extremely uncertain if with multiple trial, blind-listening tests I could reliably (90% minimum) detect a wired from a wireless connection, assuming the same device for both connections.


----------



## franz12

I tried balanced connection using a adapter (XLR-2.5mm). To my ears, balanced connection sounds noticeably better than its SE connection.


----------



## 325xia

I get as far as this... and the System Uodate just stalls at Entering Update Mode. Then Error Message: Firmware Upgrade Failed


----------



## Joewoof

325xia said:


> I get as far as this... and the System Uodate just stalls at Entering Update Mode. Then Error Message: Firmware Upgrade Failed



You didn't hold down the NEXT button..
 Re-read the instructions


----------



## 325xia

Joewoof said:


> You didn't hold down the NEXT button..
> Re-read the instructions


I did do that. I reset the Q5 with a paper clip. It now is working with the update. Thank you for the reply. I’m patiently waiting for the DSD light to come On now.


----------



## Joewoof

325xia said:


> I did do that. I reset the Q5 with a paper clip. It now is working with the update. Thank you for the reply. I’m patiently waiting for the DSD light to come On now.



You shouldnt have to wait long... And I would guess that it's not gonna work again... It's supposed to say "0.04" on a successful connect... Not 0.48


----------



## 325xia

I was able to finally get both the System Upgrade v.058 and Bluetooth Upgrade working. It took a reset on the Q5 to get everything talking to each other. I hope others are able to get theirs updated. Just follow the instructions very closely. I’m amazed it took me this long. Thanks for your help “Joewoof”


----------



## 325xia

I wish FiiO would document a version history. Not sure what has changed in these updates.


----------



## Joewoof

Unfortunately it's just the way a lot of companies are doing it now.. look at all Google apps... They never say what they fixed.... It just says "bug fixes and improvements"


----------



## 325xia

Bluetooth seems better sound quality wise. But, that’s probably the placebo effect on my part.


----------



## Brooko

325xia said:


> Bluetooth seems better sound quality wise. But, that’s probably the placebo effect on my part.


I didn’t notice any SQ changes, but definitely better BT connection improvement in range and overall stability.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I remember how we both liked the XTC Divine so I wanted to suggest the Fidelio M1 MKII if you can get a chance to hear it. Just an amazing price to performance ratio. I was listening to it using the Q5 just a few minutes ago. I have an Aeon Flow closed here, and a bunch of others, but I don't think the Q5 with the AM3A will be able to drive the Aeon. Anyway, curious if you have heard the M1 MKII yet. Cheers.


----------



## franz12 (May 26, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> I remember how we both liked the XTC Divine so I wanted to suggest the Fidelio M1 MKII if you can get a chance to hear it. Just an amazing price to performance ratio. I was listening to it using the Q5 just a few minutes ago. I have an Aeon Flow closed here, and a bunch of others, but I don't think the Q5 with the AM3A will be able to drive the Aeon. Anyway, curious if you have heard the M1 MKII yet. Cheers.



Did you try the balanced output? The balanced output drives fairly well ether c flow. At least, it drives surely better than Hugo. It is pretty much on par with the cavalli tube hybrid.


----------



## springbay

325xia said:


> I wish FiiO would document a version history. Not sure what has changed in these updates.



Exactly my thought. I don't want to try and fix something on my unit that isn't broken. (like when OTG connection was discontinued on the X3ii)


----------



## Sonic Defender

franz12 said:


> Did you try the balanced output? The balanced output drives fairly well ether c flow. At least, it drives surely better than Hugo. It is pretty much on par with the cavalli tube hybrid.


I don't think I have a balanced cable here for the Aeon. I have balanced for my Pioneer SE Monitor 5 so I have been able to listen to it both SE and balanced. If I'm not too lazy tonight I might break out the Sony Z1R and give it a try with the Q5. That should make for an interesting listen.


----------



## franz12

Sonic Defender said:


> I don't think I have a balanced cable here for the Aeon. I have balanced for my Pioneer SE Monitor 5 so I have been able to listen to it both SE and balanced. If I'm not too lazy tonight I might break out the Sony Z1R and give it a try with the Q5. That should make for an interesting listen.



Try the balanced output if you can. I believe its balanced output implementation is lot better than SE. I am listening Clear and Ether C Flow via a 2.5mm adapter, both of which are better with the balanced output. And Ether C Flow benefits more from it.


----------



## Sonic Defender

franz12 said:


> Try the balanced output if you can. I believe its balanced output implementation is lot better than SE. I am listening Clear and Ether C Flow via a 2.5mm adapter, both of which are better with the balanced output. And Ether C Flow benefits more from it.


No adapter available either. That's okay, I have enough low Z headphones around right now. I even have a Denon D7200 and a Focal Clear (loaners).


----------



## KopaneDePooj

My Q5 came with the latest 0.52 system firmware installed and I think it also has the new BT firmware because FiiO Music beta app for Android works with the Q5 settings screen. Can @FiiO  confirm if this is the case? Don't want to bother with new BT fw. install if I already have it.


----------



## franz12

Sonic Defender said:


> No adapter available either. That's okay, I have enough low Z headphones around right now. I even have a Denon D7200 and a Focal Clear (loaners).



This quote is from Dan (MrSpeakers). This case may also apply to the Q5, IMO.

"There is no inherent advantage to a balanced amplifier vs single ended, however many balanced amplifiers with single ended outputs sound better balanced. This is usually because the amp is optimized for balanced operation, and many circuits allow "for free" single ended output."


----------



## bahamot

325xia said:


> I get as far as this... and the System Uodate just stalls at Entering Update Mode. Then Error Message: Firmware Upgrade Failed


Try different USB port, if possible the one that attached directly from the motherboard (if using desktop pc).


----------



## 325xia

bahamot said:


> Try different USB port, if possible the one that attached directly from the motherboard (if using desktop pc).


I got it to work. Thank You. Both System and BT updated now successfully.


----------



## snellemin

franz12 said:


> This quote is from Dan (MrSpeakers). This case may also apply to the Q5, IMO.
> 
> "There is no inherent advantage to a balanced amplifier vs single ended, however many balanced amplifiers with single ended outputs sound better balanced. This is usually because the amp is optimized for balanced operation, and many circuits allow "for free" single ended output."



I agree up to a point with what Mr.Speakers says.  Well implemented "SE" amps do sound good, because they have the power to to produce the proper dynamics/headroom.  But they are also bigger.  Fiio does a good job with their A5, E12 series of amps, on how well the SE can sound in a portable unit.  But to produce more power for proper dynamics, Balanced mode in portable amps wins every time.  

Anyways, I am not a fan of Mr.Speakers boring sound signature.  I couldn't even enjoy my Reggea jams on his Aeons, with my bigger amps.  So I can see why he made that statement about the two different amplification methods.


----------



## franz12

snellemin said:


> I agree up to a point with what Mr.Speakers says.  Well implemented "SE" amps do sound good, because they have the power to to produce the proper dynamics/headroom.  But they are also bigger.  Fiio does a good job with their A5, E12 series of amps, on how well the SE can sound in a portable unit.  But to produce more power for proper dynamics, Balanced mode in portable amps wins every time.
> 
> Anyways, I am not a fan of Mr.Speakers boring sound signature.  I couldn't even enjoy my Reggea jams on his Aeons, with my bigger amps.  So I can see why he made that statement about the two different amplification methods.



You need it more carefully. You misinterpreted it. What I mean is that if fiio Q5 is optimized for the balanced output, sounds out from it should be better than SE no matter what the level of the power is. Of course, whether fiio is optimized for the balanced output and SE is just a bonus is purely my hypothesis.


----------



## Brooko

franz12 said:


> You need it more carefully. You misinterpreted it. What I mean is that if fiio Q5 is optimized for the balanced output, sounds out from it should be better than SE no matter what the level of the power is. Of course, whether fiio is optimized for the balanced output and SE is just a bonus is purely my hypothesis.



If you look at the information we have on the parts - SE uses single AK4490EN.  Balanced uses two of the same DAC chip.  So its not the DAC.

In my tests, they both sound exactly the same.  One of course is louder than the other.  How did you volume match when you compared, and what headphones did you use to compare?


----------



## jam130

@FiiO can you post English version of change log posted by @demond at _2018-03-27 10:59:37_ for Q5 firmware update?

Thanks


----------



## Trainsauce

Fiio, what is "drive free mode"?  Could be a bad english translation... thanks


----------



## gazzington

Can anybody write a simple how to update the q5?


----------



## milkyspray

Sorry everyone but why do we need to update it again? Does it make the unit sound better?


----------



## Coyotex83

If any of you got problems with connecting Bluetooth devices to your computers after upgrading Q5 Bluetooth to newer version this is especially for you.

I have a simple BT dongle to pair it with my XOne Pad. In Device Manager it is called CSR8510 A10. After upgrading the Q5 BT I couldn't connect my pad to computer, moreover BT dongle wasn't even recognized as a working device.
CSR means Cambridge Silicon Radio Ltd. which is coincidentally the same manufacturer that is responsible for drivers for Q5 BT. So in my case CSR BlueCore in DFU Mode that we see after installing the driver took priority over Microsoft universal BT driver which governs all normal BT devices connecting to computer. And BT dongle was unable to work properly.

All I had to do was to uninstall driver packages that FiiO asked us to install. In W10 these programs are called something like: Windows Driver Package - Cambridge Silicon Radio Ltd. (CSRBC) USB / Windows Driver Package - Cambridge Silicon Radio Ltd. (USBPI?). Your package names may be different, but there is overall 4 packages, installation date is identical in  all of them. Just try to uninstall all of them, this should re-enable Microsoft's own BT driver again.


----------



## Sonic Defender

For the record, in my limited experience, I use balanced for the extra power, like Brooko I never find it sounds better. I like louder playback volumes to get that dynamic range and impact experience. Less efficient and or low Z headphones won't be driven to those levels for me with a 150mW output so balanced is essential in those cases. I'm quite sure for people who like lower playback levels they may actually be very pleased with the SE even with more power hungry headphones. It also will depend on the music I'm listening to. Better recorded, more dynamic music is often at much lower average amplitude so the power has to be there. I listen at easily a sustained 85 to 90db level with the peaks being higher of course. My hearing remains quite good because while I do that, I don't listen for very long sessions, typically 20 to 30 minutes and often I go a few days without much time listening to music, but it depends.

Anyway, I'm babbling, but as I said, I seek balanced output for more power, not to achieve a better sound quality.


----------



## jam130

325xia said:


> I get as far as this... and the System Uodate just stalls at Entering Update Mode. Then Error Message: Firmware Upgrade Failed



This is more of a PSA for the firmware update..  

It kept hanging for me at the *Entering Update Mode* as well. The only way I was able to get it to work was to run the update app in _Windows XP SP3_ compatibility mode. I could not get it work in Windows 10, Win 8, or Win 7 compatibility modes. I had to go all the way back to Windows XP to get it to go through. 

Hope that helps!


----------



## 325xia

jam130 said:


> This is more of a PSA for the firmware update..
> 
> It kept hanging for me at the *Entering Update Mode* as well. The only way I was able to get it to work was to run the update app in _Windows XP SP3_ compatibility mode. I could not get it work in Windows 10, Win 8, or Win 7 compatibility modes. I had to go all the way back to Windows XP to get it to go through.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Yes. I was able to finally get it all updated yesterday. It took me a long time to understand the process. Thank You.


----------



## jam130

325xia said:


> Yes. I was able to finally get it all updated yesterday. It took me a long time to understand the process. Thank You.



Just curious, did you have to do it in compatibility mode or did it work normally?


----------



## 325xia

jam130 said:


> Just curious, did you have to do it in compatibility mode or did it work normally?


Normally. Just followed the directions carefully. It was a bit confusing and frustrating. But, I printed out the directions and carefully completed it successfully.


----------



## Duncan

Brooko said:


> If you look at the information we have on the parts - SE uses single AK4490EN.  Balanced uses two of the same DAC chip.  So its not the DAC.
> 
> In my tests, they both sound exactly the same.  One of course is louder than the other.  How did you volume match when you compared, and what headphones did you use to compare?


Is this correct? I know that the AM3A splits op-amp usage to one per channel for balanced, but the DACs too?


----------



## Brooko

Duncan said:


> Is this correct? I know that the AM3A splits op-amp usage to one per channel for balanced, but the DACs too?



Actually I probably need to check that.  But makes more sense don't you think?  You can only decode signal once - so why use dual DACs unless it was one per channel.


----------



## Duncan

Brooko said:


> Actually I probably need to check that.  But makes more sense don't you think?  You can only decode signal once - so why use dual DACs unless it was one per channel.


From FiiO's description:







Dual all the way


----------



## FiiO

jam130 said:


> @FiiO can you post English version of change log posted by @demond at _2018-03-27 10:59:37_ for Q5 firmware update?
> 
> Thanks


Dear friend,

Changes or improvement for 0.52system firmware:
1. Fixed the issue where the "Sharp Roll-Off Filter" and the "Short delay Sharp Roll-Off Filter" settings were reversed;
2. Fixed the issue where the device would not charge when the Side USB port was set as data port.  

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Trainsauce said:


> Fiio, what is "drive free mode"?  Could be a bad english translation... thanks


Dear friend,

You may read the post in our Chinese forum? The 'drive free mode' you mentioned may be the added function for the new batch. With this function, you don't need to install the DAC driver when first using the Q5 in a new computer. But note that if you would need to play the DSD files in the computer, the DAC driver is needed still.  

Best regards


----------



## TheoS53

Here's my review for the Q5


----------



## franz12 (May 31, 2018)

One very convenient feature of the Q5 is that it can connect to multiple devices at the same time. I didn't know that so far, but I just found that it connects to both my MacPro and IPhone 7 plus at the same time. Not every device supports this. For instance, as far as I know, Airpods don't connect to multiple devices at the same time.

I don't need to reconnect Bluetooth when I jump from the desktop use to the mobile use. I love this feature. Super convenient.

EDIT: I tried once again, but it didn't connect automatically. But still I need to open Bluetooth on mac devices and push the connect button to the Q5.


----------



## FiiO

franz12 said:


> One very convenient feature of the Q5 is that it can connect to multiple devices at the same time. I didn't know that so far, but I just found that it connects to both my MacPro and IPhone 7 plus at the same time. Not every device supports this. For instance, as far as I know, Airpods don't connect to multiple devices at the same time.
> 
> I don't need to reconnect Bluetooth when I jump from the desktop use to the mobile use. I love this feature. Super convenient.


Glad to hear about that.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

I have decided after only 4 days on the review tour for the Q5 that it is a keeper and I have purchased a Q5. Sadly as I am finishing my degree over the summer this week has been spent mostly doing school work so not as much listening as I would like, but with the few hours of listening I can honestly say that I love the Q5. I have used it with three very nice headphones, Focal Clear, Sony Z1R and the Pioneer SE Monitor 5, and all sound fantastic, and properly driven. Just amazing what you can do these days with a device that you can hold in your hand!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Android users, CL06 - USB-C to micro is now available at fiio.aliexpress !
Product page: http://fiio.net/en/products/93

I want one badly! Looks so good and quality and L-shaped.
@FiiO when it will be available at local dealers in Europe?


----------



## gazzington

Well I've updated the firmware no problem. I can't get the Bluetooth update to work though. The driver never appears after download in my pc devices list.


----------



## Duncan

It's not fair, I wasn't even looking for it, but - now I've become intrigued by the AM2a module - I think I should just stick with the AM5, but - the Pokémon player in me thinks that I've gotta get them all...

I wonder, for those that've heard it, how much warmer it is than the AM5...


----------



## Brooko

gazzington said:


> Well I've updated the firmware no problem. I can't get the Bluetooth update to work though. The driver never appears after download in my pc devices list.



Does your PC Bluetooth have a Bluetooth transmitter?  If it doesn't the module won't load/appear.  if you have a Bluetooth dongle, plug that into a USB port and it should show up.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Brooko said:


> Does your PC Bluetooth have a Bluetooth transmitter?  If it doesn't the module won't load/appear.  if you have a Bluetooth dongle, plug that into a USB port and it should show up.


Why is the BT update reliant upon this? I don't doubt you, but why wouldn't the BT driver simply download along with the firmware? I must be missing something. I am thinking of doing the updates, although I have no issues with my Q5 at all.


----------



## Duncan

The key thing for me and the BT update was that the BT had to be on on the Q5, but it had to be not connected to anything (ie I switched off the BT on my cellphone), then, hold down the back and forward buttons for a couple of seconds, then plug the pc in to the USB port (left hand side), then run the programme...  I'll admit that bamboozled me for a while.


----------



## gazzington

Wow this is the most complicated updating I have yet experienced!


----------



## Slashn77

Has anyone used or own the new ifi xdsd vs the Q5?
 For an iPhone user portable running tidal both seem great. Q5 comes with micro to lightning direct like the Q1mk2 and the ifi xdsd and micro BL have the male USB connection perfect size for the Apple camera kit to plug straight in. Q5 does have the  amp modules for different connections which is a huge bonus but I don’t think I’d ever switch em unless the 4.4 balanced continues to explode 2-5 years down the the line but don’t have anything for it right now or in the near future and by that time I’d probably get whatever the new device is in a few years


----------



## 329161

gazzington said:


> Wow this is the most complicated updating I have yet experienced!


Fiio should award a diploma for anyone that successfully completes the update


----------



## Coyotex83

KopaneDePooj said:


> Android users, CL06 - USB-C to micro is now available at fiio.aliexpress !
> Product page: http://fiio.net/en/products/93



And where I can find micro to micro cable? Besides DIY operation I mean. Didn't FiiO had one some time ago? Any future releases of L-shaped like this new usb-c to micro?

@FiiO, pretty please?


----------



## springbay

Duncan said:


> It's not fair, I wasn't even looking for it, but - now I've become intrigued by the AM2a module - I think I should just stick with the AM5, but - the Pokémon player in me thinks that I've gotta get them all...
> 
> I wonder, for those that've heard it, how much warmer it is than the AM5...



I have both. Did not use either of them much because AM3a is more versatile for me. If you tell me which of my head gear you want me to compare them on (listed in my profile page) I'll get back with my opinion.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I just wanted to mention one functional feature, and one aesthetic feature that I am loving with the Q5. I am very pleased that FiiO made the volume wheel with greater resistance as it makes accidental volume increases far less likely. This is a great idea with a device that could conceivably be stuck in a pocket while playing so huge volume jumps are possible for those who might take the Q5 as full-on portable. Even just fumbling around in the dark at home might lead to a unintentional volume jump with a easy to turn volume wheel.

As for the aesthetic feature, I really like the LED light bar just above the amp module and the tastefully light level on the power button. Really small details, but nonetheless noteworthy I think. In a few weeks I will have time for my full review of the Q5 as I like to take at least three weeks to get used to a device before attempting to review it. Unless something drastically changes I have to think it will be a very favourable review. All signs are pointing that way to this point.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jun 4, 2018)

Never mind, got it installed. Updated both firmware and Bluetooth. Fairly simple, but not without a few minor hitches.


----------



## Sonic Defender

So am I going nuts? I'm not sure if my Q5 is now unable to charge following the update. No matter if I plug in the side USB port into my computer or with a charger and a power bar, there is no light activity via the LED indicator bar. Very odd and I swear it was working fine. I don't use Apple so no way to use an app to check on the reported battery level. Any thoughts?


----------



## int_architect

Sonic Defender said:


> So am I going nuts? I'm not sure if my Q5 is now unable to charge following the update. No matter if I plug in the side USB port into my computer or with a charger and a power bar, there is no light activity via the LED indicator bar. Very odd and I swear it was working fine. I don't use Apple so no way to use an app to check on the reported battery level. Any thoughts?


FiiO has a beta version of their android app. It works for me, and should allow you to see both battery level and charge/data port assignment.


FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> As we mentioned before, we have the beta version FiiO Music APP for Android: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO Music Android 0.0.6beta.apk, you may have a try.
> 
> Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

int_architect said:


> FiiO has a beta version of their android app. It works for me, and should allow you to see both battery level and charge/data port assignment.


Thanks, but if the battery isn't charging that of course really concerns me. Has anybody else experienced this? I'm pretty confident that this started after the firmware update.


----------



## bahamot

Sonic Defender said:


> So am I going nuts? I'm not sure if my Q5 is now unable to charge following the update. No matter if I plug in the side USB port into my computer or with a charger and a power bar, there is no light activity via the LED indicator bar. Very odd and I swear it was working fine. I don't use Apple so no way to use an app to check on the reported battery level. Any thoughts?


Have you changed the default charging port from side USB to bottom USB?


----------



## Duncan

springbay said:


> I have both. Did not use either of them much because AM3a is more versatile for me. If you tell me which of my head gear you want me to compare them on (listed in my profile page) I'll get back with my opinion.


 wow! That is a big list!

The only IEM that we have in common is the ZS6, if you could do a quick comparison between the two modules with those, would be great! Thanks!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Sonic Defender said:


> Thanks, but if the battery isn't charging that of course really concerns me. Has anybody else experienced this? I'm pretty confident that this started after the firmware update.


Maybe try this: http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=43029


----------



## William1953

Sonic Defender said:


> Thanks, but if the battery isn't charging that of course really concerns me. Has anybody else experienced this? I'm pretty confident that this started after the firmware update.


I had the same thoughts when the inducator light would not come on turned out the Q5 was fully charged. And only after some use did it illuminate again when connected to a charger.


----------



## Sonic Defender

William1953 said:


> I had the same thoughts when the inducator light would not come on turned out the Q5 was fully charged. And only after some use did it illuminate again when connected to a charger.


I was considering that as a possibility, but in my mind it has been used enough that I thought it would be able to accept some charge. I have always found device charge indicators to be activated no matter the level of battery charge. I will hope that this is indeed the case and my Q5 charge indicator will work again. FiiO, if this is a design decision it might be worth addressing when you do the next firmware update. The charge indicator is a sign of health so evenif it isn't of particular importance, it does let the user know that their device is functioning.


----------



## Sonic Defender

bahamot said:


> Have you changed the default charging port from side USB to bottom USB?


No, I had thought of that (I don't have iOS) and I did check just in case by plugging in briefly to the bottom port with no effect. Thanks for the thought though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

KopaneDePooj said:


> Maybe try this: http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=43029


Thanks, I'll check the link out later today.


----------



## Sonic Defender

As suggested here by others, and what I thought was also likely enough, the Q5 only gives battery charging status light signals via the LED bar at a certain stage of discharge. I would still suggest that if this is easy enough to correct with a firmware update it wouldn't hurt to do. I think a device should also show that it is reacting to any attempt to engage it, even if it is something passive like charging. Anyway, very small quibble to be sure, just really enjoying the Q5.


----------



## oopsydaisy

Excuse my ignorance and sorry if this has been discussed before. If I wanted to go fully wireless with say my iPhone, the Q5 and Sennheiser HD1s, is this possible? Or could I stack the iPhone and Q5 and connect wirelessly to the Q5 with the HD1s?


----------



## kingkikapu

oopsydaisy said:


> Excuse my ignorance and sorry if this has been discussed before. If I wanted to go fully wireless with say my iPhone, the Q5 and Sennheiser HD1s, is this possible? Or could I stack the iPhone and Q5 and connect wirelessly to the Q5 with the HD1s?


Yes very doable. Connect headphones to q5 and pair q5 via Bluetooth to iPhone. Your iPhone is now wireless.


----------



## Sonic Defender

oopsydaisy said:


> Excuse my ignorance and sorry if this has been discussed before. If I wanted to go fully wireless with say my iPhone, the Q5 and Sennheiser HD1s, is this possible? Or could I stack the iPhone and Q5 and connect wirelessly to the Q5 with the HD1s?


No on the last question, the Q5 does not transmit BT, it receives only so it can't send a signal to your HD1 I'm afraid.


----------



## kingkikapu

oh shoot sorry.  Didn't realise the HD1's are wireless.  I pulled up an image and they had a wire.  My bad.

I'm not sure of the benefit of using a Q5 if you are also using wireless headphones (at which point, what is the Q5 even doing)


----------



## FiiO

*FiiO Music Android Beta App is Now Available-More information please click*
Kindly share us your suggestion or question in that thread or send email to support@fiio.net if needed. 

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

kingkikapu said:


> oh shoot sorry.  Didn't realise the HD1's are wireless.  I pulled up an image and they had a wire.  My bad.
> 
> I'm not sure of the benefit of using a Q5 if you are also using wireless headphones (at which point, what is the Q5 even doing)


It may be me who is making the mistake, but I believe there must be both a wired and wireless version of the HD1, or so I thought. Not sure why I thought you meant the Q5 streaming to the headphone via Bluetooth. Yes it would be rather redundant to use the Q5 to send a signal that will ultimately be decoded again through another DAC. My apology for misinterpreting what you were saying. Cheers.


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> Android users, CL06 - USB-C to micro is now available at fiio.aliexpress !
> Product page: http://fiio.net/en/products/93
> 
> I want one badly! Looks so good and quality and L-shaped.
> @FiiO when it will be available at local dealers in Europe?


Dear friend,

Next week. Some of the sellers in Europe would have the CL06.

Best regards


----------



## georgelai57

I use my Q1 MkII frequently and have been keeping track of the Q5 when it was first announced. Frequent visits to this thread make me feel that perhaps this time, FiiO have tried to make a product that tries to do too many things.


----------



## Brooko

Can you elaborate?  I personally see it as an endgame portable device.  Pair it with any decent smart-phone and it’s very hard to beat.

What “issues” are you concerned about?


----------



## Sonic Defender

georgelai57 said:


> I use my Q1 MkII frequently and have been keeping track of the Q5 when it was first announced. Frequent visits to this thread make me feel that perhaps this time, FiiO have tried to make a product that tries to do too many things.


Why would you say that? I'm curious. What functionality do you think is too much in the case of the Q5?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Brooko said:


> Can you elaborate?  I personally see it as an endgame portable device.  Pair it with any decent smart-phone and it’s very hard to beat.
> 
> What “issues” are you concerned about?


I feel the same way in many respects, the Q5 really hits the right targets for me anyway. Love the rock solid, fantastic sounding Bluetooth. I don't think anybody should consider Bluetooth as a secondary input, in my mind it is an absolute requirement and moving forward devices without Bluetooth will stick out like a sore thumb.


----------



## kingkikapu

Me third. I’m done with DAP’s if I can avoid them. This product allows me to keep my phone as a source and quality user interface while passing the amplification and converting to a standalone product. Plus it allows my phone to be wireless if I feel like it. 

Good compromise.


----------



## Sonic Defender

kingkikapu said:


> Me third. I’m done with DAP’s if I can avoid them. This product allows me to keep my phone as a source and quality user interface while passing the amplification and converting to a standalone product. Plus it allows my phone to be wireless if I feel like it.
> 
> Good compromise.


For sure, my phone is already a source that I use frequently anyway, so as you said, the Q5 just extends the functionality further.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Jun 7, 2018)

kingkikapu said:


> Me third. I’m done with DAP’s if I can avoid them. This product allows me to keep my phone as a source and quality user interface while passing the amplification and converting to a standalone product. Plus it allows my phone to be wireless if I feel like it.
> 
> Good compromise.





Sonic Defender said:


> For sure, my phone is already a source that I use frequently anyway, so as you said, the Q5 just extends the functionality further.



I feel the same about "no more DAPs" 
When I had the X5 III I always had my phone with me anyway, so two devices always with me, as is now the case with phone + Q5.
With my phone I have the advantage of better music apps, fluid interface and lately I find that I use mostly Spotify on the go with unlimited mobile Internet plan. So storage is not an issue.
I also have a Wear OS watch and use for quickly controlling playback of my HTC 10. When I had the X5 III I couldn't connect my watch to my X5 for media controls and at the same time to my phone for notifications. Wear OS doesn't support 2 devices connected at the same time.

And lastly IMO sound quality with Q5 + AM3A is significantly better than X5 3rd. 
Another plus is the hardware bass boost switch, which is very practical. A quick and effective way to bring more oomph when needed (thin sounding headphones or thin mastered music.) Better quality than a software eq.
Plus the Q5 gets a lot of desktop use at work.

So all in all I'm happy that I switched to the Q5.
I just need better Bluetooth connectivity with my HTC 10, there are still problems there.


----------



## 325xia

Sonic Defender said:


> I feel the same way in many respects, the Q5 really hits the right targets for me anyway. Love the rock solid, fantastic sounding Bluetooth. I don't think anybody should consider Bluetooth as a secondary input, in my mind it is an absolute requirement and moving forward devices without Bluetooth will stick out like a sore thumb.



I still find directly connecting to my iPhone via USB to the Q5 sounds better than BT. On the go I use BT. But, for sit down listening sessions, it’s direct connect. Noticeably better in my case. iPhone 7/Tidal or Hiby App, (AFLAC or DSD),/ Lightening to USB/Balanced 2.5/SE846 Modded Blues.


----------



## Duncan

I wonder if that is because iOS devices don't use AptX, but instead AAC!?


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jun 7, 2018)

All I can say is that the Bluetooth sounds good enough that I doubt in a blind, multiple trial listening test that I could reliably tell the difference from wired. Maybe I could, but it isn't clear to me now. I have been using the Q5 via USB lately, but simply because I wanted to test that input as well. Regardless, both inputs sound fantastic.


----------



## jokobuba

Hello i discovered today, that i must install also a bluetooth firmware ------wait ,what? ok... it was fast , no problems on windows 8... i agree separate app to only control the q5 would be great... fiio please.... the latest beta is laggy on my phone.... anyone who can hear differences in lowpass filters? stock is sharp i think... on x5 3rd i was unable tell the differences on any headphones that i own...thx


----------



## Duncan

Sonic Defender said:


> All I can say is that the Bluetooth sounds good enough that I doubt in a blind, multiple trial listening test that I could reliably tell the difference from wired. Maybe I could, but it isn't clear to me now. I have been using the Q5 via USB lately, but simply because I wanted to test that input as well. Regardless, both inputs sound fantastic.


I agree wholeheartedly, that is now pretty much the only input I use...  I even went as far as getting a Chromecast Audio, powering it from a power bank, and using it for an optical input whilst out and about, BT won out, sounds the same, and is super convenient.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

jokobuba said:


> Hello i discovered today, that i must install also a bluetooth firmware ------wait ,what? ok... it was fast , no problems on windows 8... i agree separate app to only control the q5 would be great... fiio please.... the latest beta is laggy on my phone.... anyone who can hear differences in lowpass filters? stock is sharp i think... on x5 3rd i was unable tell the differences on any headphones that i own...thx


I think I can't tell a difference between filters either. Maybe between the first two, "Slow" seems smoother and "Sharp" edgier, but it could be just my imagination  I use "Slow". If I don't imagine, there's also a short delay between switching the filter and when it actually activates.


----------



## Duncan

Just sitting on a bus right now, it dawned on me (not for the first time), just how effortless it is to listen to the Q5, no jarring peaks or troughs, no genre it seems to baulk over, just blissful music...  The engineers at FiiO did good!

What is exciting me right now is looking at the X series of DAPs, and their model number convention shows there could be a prospect of a TOTL Q7 (this thought is in my head, nowhere else), anyhow, how great the Q5 is, I'd be right at the front of the line if a Q7 was born!


----------



## earfonia

I found my Fiio Q5, using the default AM3A amplifier module, has rather high output noise on the 2.5mm balanced output. In comparison, the 3.5mm unbalanced output is much cleaner and free from hissing noise, when tested using 1964 Ears V3 universal IEM. 1964 Ears V3 is a very sensitive IEM at 119 dB/mW. Using less sensitive IEM, both 3.5mm and 2.5mm are relatively clean. But overall the 3.5mm is cleaner than the 2.5mm output.

I went to the shop where I bought Fiio Q5, to compare my unit and their demo unit of Fiio Q5, same result, same noisy 2.5mm output.

I posted a simple test of the comparison of the 3.5mm output and the 2.5mm output hissing noise on YouTube:


I hope @FiiO could fix the relatively high 2.5mm output noise floor on this AM3A amplifier module. Thanks!


----------



## Sonic Defender

Odd, while I don't use IEM, nor have I used testing equipment like you, I certainly don't hear any noise and I only use the 2.5 balanced with my Pioneer SE Monitor 5 which is fairly sensitive. Anybody else finding the 2.5 balanced out noisy?


----------



## Duncan

Noisy isn't exactly the word I would use, but it isn't Inky black with super sensitive IEMs..

That can only be picked up when there is no music and no ambient noise around you, in my experience it isn't intrusive.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Huh, I actually have not noticed this to be honest, but then again, I listen loud and rarely notice hiss  

IE8 was one heck of a sensitive IEM to hiss, but I haven't used in a while, my girl took it and I haven't seen it back since 

I agree, the 2.5mm isn't quite inky black, so there is something, but I can't really notice it in practice, some really quiet listeners might be able to, but if I blast metal and headbang on my music...

Great job on noticing it though  

Hope it can be fixed eventually


----------



## earfonia (Jun 9, 2018)

Initially I hoped that it is only my AM3A unit that has this issue. But once I compared with the 2nd unit at the shop, and got the same result, I'm quite surprised that the noise floor level of the Q5 2.5mm output is audibly higher than:
1. Q5 3.5mm unbalanced output
2. Onkyo DP-X1 2.5mm balanced output

To my ears, the Q5 3.5mm output SNR is around 85 dBA or higher at 50mV rms output level, which is excellent. I haven't measured, just my estimation. While the 2.5mm output, in my estimation is 80 dBA SNR or lower, at 50mV rms output level, which is not very good for a flagship product. I have to make 2.5mm balanced measurement cable for proper measurement. Don't have time for cable DIY at the moment, hopefully soon I have time to make one for proper measurement using my QuantAsylum QA401.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jun 9, 2018)

earfonia said:


> Initially I hoped that it is only my AM3A unit that has this issue. But once I compared with the 2nd unit at the shop, and got the same result, I'm quite surprised that the noise floor level of the Q5 2.5mm output is audibly higher than:
> 1. Q5 3.5mm unbalanced output
> 2. Onkyo DP-X1 2.5mm balanced output
> 
> To my ears, the Q5 3.5mm output SNR is around 85 dBA or higher at 50mV rms output level, which is excellent. I haven't measured, just my estimation. While the 2.5mm output, in my estimation is 80 dBA SNR or lower, at 50mV rms output level, which is not very good for a flagship product. I have to make 2.5mm balanced measurement cable for proper measurement. Don't have time for cable DIY at the moment, hopefully soon I have time to make one for proper measurement using my QuantAsylum QA401.


Deleted: I'm just babbling now. Very tired and should sleep and post when I'm awake LOL.


----------



## earfonia

Sonic Defender said:


> Just seems odd in that I don't at all hear the noise. I'm wondering if while measureable it has no practical significance when actually listening at any modest or louder volume? It doesn't seem to be problematic, at least in my experience. I will go back and forth between the two outputs and listen for any audible noise artifacts, but I will be surprised if there are any.
> 
> While I'm all for things measuring well, if in the end they have no audible impact I personally don't really worry much. Like with drug testing. Sometimes a new drug can show an effect that can be measured, but in terms of practical effect, it is insignificant. Might this be the same type of situation? I would be curious to know if while playing music via the AM3A balanced output people are hearing any noise.



I didn't have the intention to measure it. The 2.5mm hissing noise started to irritate me on the 2nd day after I got it. That's why I did the test to confirm what I hear. Most likely it is because of the high sensitivity of the IEM. I guess any IEM with sensitivity 115 dB/mW or higher could easily hear the hissing noise. The 1964 V3 is 119 dB/mW. Check the sensitivity of your IEM. Most likely anything below 115 dB/mW won't have problem with the noise floor of the balanced output. The balanced output is  relatively low noise for my DUNU DK-3001 and AK T8iE Mk2. Although it is still audibly at quiet places.


----------



## Sonic Defender

earfonia said:


> I didn't have the intention to measure it. The 2.5mm hissing noise started to irritate me on the 2nd day after I got it. That's why I did the test to confirm what I hear. Most likely it is because of the high sensitivity of the IEM. I guess any IEM with sensitivity 115 dB/mW or higher could easily hear the hissing noise. The 1964 V3 is 119 dB/mW. Check the sensitivity of your IEM. Most likely anything below 115 dB/mW won't have problem with the noise floor of the balanced output. The balanced output is  relatively low noise for my DUNU DK-3001 and AK T8iE Mk2. Although it is still audibly at quiet places.


Yes, that is true. So does such a sensitive IEM benefit from the extra power of the balanced output? And I'm not asking in a challenging way, I just have no real experience with IEMs.


----------



## bahamot

With Ibasso IT01, I can pick up the noise on the balance out. Especially if using Bluetooth.


----------



## Duncan

SE M5 has a sensitivity of 99db/mw which is maybe louder than other products you have but it isn't shout it from the rooftop loud...

Add in distance away from the ear compared to an IEM, and I'd call you Batman if you said you could hear anything with them...

To be fair to FiiO, 119db/mw is right on absolute top end of what is practical, you have less than 1mw of scale to make you deaf... Definitely wouldn't need to go to far on the volume dial there!


----------



## earfonia

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, that is true. So does such a sensitive IEM benefit from the extra power of the balanced output? And I'm not asking in a challenging way, I just have no real experience with IEMs.



Most IEMs require less than 1mW to few mW at most. So power is not an issue for most IEMs. I'm not a balanced output fanatic, i mostly use unbalanced daily. Theoretically balanced output increases slew rate of the amp and some said reduces even harmonic distortion. To me the difference is most of the time just very small differences in sound that in my opinion not significant. Noise floor is basic criteria. I expect at least both outputs to be low noise. The 3.5mm output is excellent in that respect, and the 2.5mm is not.


----------



## earfonia

Duncan said:


> SE M5 has a sensitivity of 99db/mw which is maybe louder than other products you have but it isn't shout it from the rooftop loud...
> 
> Add in distance away from the ear compared to an IEM, and I'd call you Batman if you said you could hear anything with them...
> 
> To be fair to FiiO, 119db/mw is right on absolute top end of what is practical, you have less than 1mw of scale to make you deaf... Definitely wouldn't need to go to far on the volume dial there!



In that case we should be complaining to 1964 Audio for making such high sensitivity IEM.


----------



## Brooko

To be fair to FiiO - the balanced out isn't designed for IEMs.  It outputs far too much voltage and overall power.  Its designed for harder to drive full sized headphones.  If you wanted to drive extremely sensitive IEMs - the original AM1 is all you'll ever need.  Dead neutral, extremely low noise floor.

The right tool for the right job


----------



## Currawong

've tried the Andromedas from the 2.5mm output. There's definitely a bit of hiss, but not enough to bother me. 

I felt that the Q5 was a bit fatiguing to listen with at first, so I left it playing music for a few days. I don't know for certain if anything changed. More so I think switching from the standard sharp filter to a slow roll-off helped the most, even if you do possibly lose a bit of precision from the sound. The other thing that works is using DSD up-sampling from Onkyo HF Player. Now I'm testing the amp modules against the Continental V5 with Utopias. The CV5 produces a slightly fuller sound and when I tried it with the X7II I felt it got more from it than the AM5 module I usually listen with, since I don't need the balanced output.


----------



## earfonia

Brooko said:


> To be fair to FiiO - the balanced out isn't designed for IEMs.  It outputs far too much voltage and overall power.  Its designed for harder to drive full sized headphones.  If you wanted to drive extremely sensitive IEMs - the original AM1 is all you'll ever need.  Dead neutral, extremely low noise floor.
> 
> The right tool for the right job



If that is the case, then it is fine. I was expecting similar SNR between the unbalanced and balanced output, and surprised by the difference. Initially i thought my amp module got issue, or probably batch issue. But if Fiio can confirm that balanced output has lower SNR than the unbalanced output, case close.


----------



## Brooko

earfonia said:


> If that is the case, then it is fine. I was expecting similar SNR between the unbalanced and balanced output, and surprised by the difference. Initially i thought my amp module got issue, or probably batch issue. But if Fiio can confirm that balanced output has lower SNR than the unbalanced output, case close.



If you look at their comparative measurements, they were done with a 32 ohm load (and I'm going to assume it was either their F9 or F9 Pro (106 dB mW).  Under those loads, the SNR measures exactly the same 115 dB (a weighted).  I don't think FiiO would have envisaged too many people using ultra sensitive low impedance monitors.  And under those circumstances, why would you use balanced output anyway .....


----------



## earfonia

Brooko said:


> If you look at their comparative measurements, they were done with a 32 ohm load (and I'm going to assume it was either their F9 or F9 Pro (106 dB mW).  Under those loads, the SNR measures exactly the same 115 dB (a weighted).  I don't think FiiO would have envisaged too many people using ultra sensitive low impedance monitors.  And under those circumstances, why would you use balanced output anyway .....



Obvious reason why I want to use the balanced output is because I've bought that feature with my hard earn money 
Balanced output is not only about more power, but the main features for balanced output is improvement in slew rate and crosstalk. 

I've done many headphone amp measurement, and I can assure you that there is no way those headphone outputs will reach 115 dBA SNR at IEMs playing level. The advertised 115 dBA SNR is probably dynamic range, SNR measurement at their maximum output level. I think It is possible to reach 115 dBA SNR at their max output level, but not at IEM playing level that generally less than 500 mV rms. At least not with the audible hissing noise that I heard.

Please understand, I've been Fiio supporters for many years, having many Fiio products. I'm not trying to make Q5 looks bad. I've bought Q5 because I like the sound quality and features. I just trying to report what I think is probably a flaw or error in the amplifier module. From the advertised specs it gives me the impressions that the unbalanced output and the balanced output would have roughly the same level of SNR. And I was surprised that it is not the case with my Q5, where the 3.5mm output has excellent high SNR, but the 2.5mm SNR is not as good as the 3.5mm output. That's what I'm trying to point out here. Something that probably need improvement. So you guys don't have to question me how and why I'm using the 2.5mm output. That's not the point.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jun 10, 2018)

earfonia said:


> ... So you guys don't have to question me how and why I'm using the 2.5mm output. That's not the point.


Absolutely, you are completely correct. I think the point I would take away from this is that while it may have been making a design decision/compromise, ultimately I suspect as Brooko was intonating, FiiO was likely willing to gamble that a tiny percentage of Q5 customers would be using highly sensitive IEM via the 2.5 output. We can wax on about whether it was cutting corners, good or bad design compromise whatever, but I suspect that is what was behind it. Likely when they were doing the design in order to meet the design requirements for what they deemed would be I'm sure the vast majority of users with less sensitive headphones, they probably found there was a sacrifice that would cause the extra noise as you are finding it. I'm of course speculating, but we know that FiiO is perfectly capable of designing and bringing to market low noise floor designs so they had to have intentionally made a design decision, that is my belief. I doubt they missed it, but that is of course possible.

And of course, again, I'm speculating. I have no way of knowing what if anything FiiO engineers were thinking or anything about their design process/decision making.


----------



## OneL0ve

I just tried to update my Q5 to the latest firmware (v052) on windows 10 and it keeps failing. 

Entering upgrade mode....
TUSBAUDIO_getDfuStatus: function failed with error code 0xEE000003.

Firmware upgrade failed!

Any thoughts?


----------



## Brooko

Hey Bram

Definitely not trying to close anything down - and I'll let FiiO come back to you.  Was simply putting my 2c worth into the conversation - regarding where I think the measurements are influenced.

I'd be curious how slew rate affects actual audible output in an IEM - so if you have any data on that, please feel free to post or PM me.  As far as crosstalk goes - you might find this interesting (off topic and spoilered):



Spoiler: About cross-talk



The specs will actually tell you more than your hearing will. Take the Q5's default balanced module.

It'll put 24mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 93 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 230 mW and balanced is 470 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage .......  Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 115 dB and on balanced is 115 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.001% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 99 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:


> The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.
> 
> The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.
> So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.


As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 99 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.
There are two other possibilities for differences:

The balanced circuit actually sounds better (or worse) by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 1.4 ohm (SE) vs 2.0 ohm (bal) output.
In your case Bram - why wouldn't you simply use the SE output for IEMs and Balanced for full sized (which is what I do).  I know you paid for it - but getting the balanced ultra-quiet for a use which essentially has no real purpose seems strange to me if it means they have to cut power output o the balanced supply.  they did that with the X5iii and got slayed for it.  balanced output was really quiet - it had no power for full sized cans though.

Checks and balances my friend - interested in that info on slew rate though.  I couldn't find any info on it being audible.  And using the balanced out with ultra-sensitive IEMs seems counter-productive when most will eb multiple BA,a nd the impedance will cause freq change anyway.


----------



## earfonia

Sonic Defender said:


> Absolutely, you are completely correct. I think the point I would take away from this is that while it may have been making a design decision/compromise, ultimately I suspect as Brooko was intonating, FiiO was likely willing to gamble that a tiny percentage of Q5 customers would be using highly sensitive IEM via the 2.5 output.



To be fair to Fiio and other manufacturers, it is true not many IEMs have around 119 dB/mW sensitivity, and I agree it is impractical in some ways. But it is just happened that 1964 V3 universal is just a very good sounding IEM to my personal preference, that I can still afford. Bought it few years back.
I hope Fiio engineers can bring down the noise of the balanced output to at least match the SNR of the unbalanced output. I believe they are very capable engineers.



Brooko said:


> Hey Bram
> 
> Definitely not trying to close anything down - and I'll let FiiO come back to you.  Was simply putting my 2c worth into the conversation - regarding where I think the measurements are influenced.
> 
> I'd be curious how slew rate affects actual audible output in an IEM - so if you have any data on that, please feel free to post or PM me.  As far as crosstalk goes - you might find this interesting (off topic and spoilered):



Thanks Paul! I know many things that sounds good in theory may not really make any significant audible effect. But we shouldn't stop at one or two testing. Sometime we only hear the significant different on some odd setup. I have not done any auditory test on slew rate, but I do hear small differences between unbalanced and balanced. Not sure if it is caused by slew rate, crosstalk, or other factor. Anyway the point is I wish Fiio could match the SNR of AM3A balanced output to be as good as the unbalanced output. That's it.


----------



## Currawong

I managed to get the firmware update happening, but the drivers to allow updating the Bluetooth wont install either on Win10 or Win7.


----------



## Brooko

Currawong said:


> I managed to get the firmware update happening, but the drivers to allow updating the Bluetooth wont install either on Win10 or Win7.



Laptop or PC Amos?  I used my PC and couldn't see the drivers - then realised the PC had no Bluetooth dongle - so Windows wasn't loading the driver.  Plugged a dongle - and it was recognised straight away.  That allowed me to update the driver and continue with the Bluetooth upgrade.  I think FiiO definitely needs to find an easier way to deliver it in future.


----------



## Currawong

Brooko said:


> Laptop or PC Amos?  I used my PC and couldn't see the drivers - then realised the PC had no Bluetooth dongle - so Windows wasn't loading the driver.  Plugged a dongle - and it was recognised straight away.  That allowed me to update the driver and continue with the Bluetooth upgrade.  I think FiiO definitely needs to find an easier way to deliver it in future.



That might explain things. I'll give that a go. Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Currawong said:


> That might explain things. I'll give that a go. Thanks.


I at first had the same issue with my laptop and realized that once I turned Bluetooth on within my settings the update went smoothly. Good luck with it.


----------



## Currawong

Brooko said:


> Laptop or PC Amos?  I used my PC and couldn't see the drivers - then realised the PC had no Bluetooth dongle - so Windows wasn't loading the driver.  Plugged a dongle - and it was recognised straight away.  That allowed me to update the driver and continue with the Bluetooth upgrade.  I think FiiO definitely needs to find an easier way to deliver it in future.



If I plug in the Q5 via the charging point to any computer, it isn't recognised as even existing.


----------



## FiiO

Currawong said:


> I managed to get the firmware update happening, but the drivers to allow updating the Bluetooth wont install either on Win10 or Win7.


Dear friend,

Do you mean that the DPInst.exe can not be run in your Win7 or Win10 computer? What information would you receive?

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

OneL0ve said:


> I just tried to update my Q5 to the latest firmware (v052) on windows 10 and it keeps failing.
> 
> Entering upgrade mode....
> TUSBAUDIO_getDfuStatus: function failed with error code 0xEE000003.
> ...


Dear friend,

Please try to uninstall the DAC driver and then restart your PC. Then reinstall the DAC driver and try to update follow the instruction. We recevied same feedback solved in this way by one other user before.

Best regards


----------



## 329161

This fw situation is such a joke. Just make the process simpler. No reason why any competent professional organisation can't. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, and it's even that plain obvious to me.


----------



## khyaris

I just followed the instructions FiiO provided and it worked perfectly. 

I had to reboot the Q5 after I installed the drivers, otherwise it didn't show on Windows.


----------



## OneL0ve

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Please try to uninstall the DAC driver and then restart your PC. Then reinstall the DAC driver and try to update follow the instruction. We recevied same feedback solved in this way by one other user before.
> 
> Best regards



Fiio, that was me that sent the feedback. 

*I now realize what I did wrong.* I wasn't in upgrade mode. The update tool wasn't showing v0.04 (update mode), it was showing v0.47 which is the current firmware version.  

I thought I had held the "Next Track" before connecting the device to USB, but the device wasn't entering update mode.  My fault. 

Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

OneL0ve said:


> Fiio, that was me that sent the feedback.
> 
> *I now realize what I did wrong.* I wasn't in upgrade mode. The update tool wasn't showing v0.04 (update mode), it was showing v0.47 which is the current firmware version.
> 
> ...



Anyway, glad to hear you have updated successfully now.


----------



## Alex Kitic

I have recently acquired the Q5 (new, unopened box), and am rather satisfied with the sound quality over headphones (standard and balanced) as well as over the line output.
The sound quality over line output is definitely comparable to full-size DACs. The sound quality over headphones output is better than most DACs and CD players that have a headphone output (which comes as no surprise, due to the poor quality of most commercial solutions).
I mostly listen to HiRes PCM (over coax input on the Q5) and DSD and HiRes PCM (over USB connection to either Mac or PC).
Of course, I do also listen to standard PCM (ripped CDs), and those sound very good as well.

On the other hand, one should take into account that this is not a cheap device, therefore it comes as no surprise that the line output sound quality is comparable to full size DACs.

What bothers me is battery life: it is rather short compared to what can be read on the FiiO site and in reviews on the net.
In my case, *battery life is **never more than 5 hours* (standard use case scenario: FiiO X3 2nd used as player, PCM over coax digital to Q5, most files are 24bit HiRes).
I've tried an array of headphones - in terms of impedance and efficiency - but the battery life is more or less the same. One would expect to have it dictated by the output amp, where HD650 over balanced connection should draw more battery than AT MSR-7 over standard connection -- but that is not the case.
It seems that the main consumer is the DAC?

What are the experiences of other owners/users? In parallel to battery life, what is your standard use-case?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Alex Kitic said:


> I have recently acquired the Q5 (new, unopened box), and am rather satisfied with the sound quality over headphones (standard and balanced) as well as over the line output.
> The sound quality over line output is definitely comparable to full-size DACs. The sound quality over headphones output is better than most DACs and CD players that have a headphone output (which comes as no surprise, due to the poor quality of most commercial solutions).
> I mostly listen to HiRes PCM (over coax input on the Q5) and DSD and HiRes PCM (over USB connection to either Mac or PC).
> Of course, I do also listen to standard PCM (ripped CDs), and those sound very good as well.
> ...



I didn't test the full extent of battery life because I use it daily at my work desktop, so it always charges. But maybe once or twice I used it mostly with BT for about 6 or more hours and it didn't die.
Maybe try to use exclusively non-hi-res files (mp3, flac) just for testing. I suspect decoding mostly 24bit hi-res consumes way more battery.
If you have the same short battery life with regular files, it may be a faulty battery.


----------



## Currawong

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Do you mean that the DPInst.exe can not be run in your Win7 or Win10 computer? What information would you receive?
> 
> Best regards



The drivers install, according to the installer, but don't show up in the Device Manager. The main problem is when I connect to the side USB port while the device is in Bluetooth mode, no computer recognises that there is a USB device connected at all, even after I put it in upgrade mode by pushing both forward and back buttons.


----------



## Alex Kitic

KopaneDePooj said:


> I didn't test the full extent of battery life because I use it daily at my work desktop, so it always charges. But maybe once or twice I used it mostly with BT for about 6 or more hours and it didn't die.
> Maybe try to use exclusively non-hi-res files (mp3, flac) just for testing. I suspect decoding mostly 24bit hi-res consumes way more battery.
> If you have the same short battery life with regular files, it may be a faulty battery.



Thank you for your quick reply.
The mix of files I listen to does include some 16bit flac files, but I do not listen to lossy formats.

From a DAC standpoint, there is no difference between a 16bit lossy and a 16bit lossless file, because it is receiving a PCM stream via coaxial digital input.
Similarly with DSD files played by some external player (like the X3 2nd gen), there is no difference from a DAC standpoint, since those files are are received as a PCM stream via coaxial (in this case it should be 24 bit 88.2kHz).

Finally, there from a DAC standpoint, there is no difference between 16bit and 24bit, or 44.1k and 192k -- at least not in terms of power consumption. The power consumed by DAC chips is usually listed in the respective datasheets, and there is no indication that more power will be consumed if converting (not decoding, as DAC chips do not decode but they do convert digital signals into analog signals).

The processing power needed to process compressed lossless PCM files like hires flac, or DSD files like dsf - is only relevant when the power consumption of a DAP is reviewed -- from a DAC standpoint, there is no difference in power consumption between converting a PCM stream generated from an mp3 and a PCM stream generated from a DSD file that the DAP has converted from DSD to PCM in the usual format 24-88.2

If most users are able to use their Q5 for more than 5 hours, it might be that my unit is defective, which on the other hand is going to be difficult to prove to the local distributor (one would need to let the DAC "play" for hours on end until the battery is depleted... and than the service personnel, or the distributor, have to agree to the fact that 5 hours are a lot less than the advertised 10 hours).

Point is - are other users able to use the Q5 for approximately 10 hours (as advertised) in any form of DAC mode (i.e. not over the line input when the DAC is not receiving a digital signal and therefore does not draw almost any power)?

It would be very useful to get as many input as possible from real-life users, i.e. owners who listen to music using their Q5 for a number of hours daily. My bias currently is that the advertised battery life is grossly unrealistic -- either exaggerated for marketing purposes (to make it look similar to data advertised by other manufacturers) or not applicable to real life use (a typical user of such a device listens mostly to HiRes PCM and DSD, and uses headphones that are not particularly easy to drive like the HD650 -- as opposed to a user who listens to mp3 and other compressed 16 bit files over earbugs of the easy to drive "phone-ready" kind).


----------



## Alex Kitic (Jun 15, 2018)

For an objective approach sake, I've just checked out the Datasheet of the AKM4490EN (2 of these are the DAC section of the Q5) and found that there is a difference in power draw relative to the sampling frequency.
The DAC chip draws an average current at DVDD as follows:
44.1k = 10mA
96k = 15mA
192k = 17mA
This would imply that the consumption is 50-70% higher with HiRes files.
BUT, the same chip draws 22mA at VDDL and VDDR, and approx. 1mA at AVDD and TVDD.
As all these data are averages from the datasheet, the total average current draw would be:
44.1k = 55mA
96k = 60mA
192k = 62mA
Once this is taken into account, DAC power consumption is just up to 12% higher with HiRes files.

Bottom line -- while the number of bits does not increase current consumption (i.e. 24bit vs mp3 sourced PCM), the sampling rate will have an impact of up to 20% on the DAC's current draw.

Looking one ore time at the current draw of the DAC, even doubling that figure since the Q5 has 2 of these chips, I am much less convinced that it is the DAC that dictates the battery life, and even less convinced that the up to 12% higher current draw of the DACs when converting HiRes files (sampling rate) would dictate a decrease in battery life...

The remaining variable is headphones, but I have not seen any increase in battery life when switching from HD650 in balanced mode - to AT MSR-7 in single-ended mode. The HD650 should be much more difficult to drive with its 300 ohm impedance than the MSR-7 with its 35 ohm impedance.
I have managed to find measurements of both headphones on the RAA site, showing that the HD650 requires 0.225mW for 94dB SPL, while the MSR-7 requires almost 50% less i.e. 120mW for 94dB SPL. I am not aware if I can post links, but I guess it is not going to be so difficult to google these pages with the keywords "RAA HD650 Sensitivity" and "RAA MSR-7 Sensitivity".

OK, enough info from me - let's see some real life use cases.


----------



## shinvicius

Question it should show me the 384khz in the advanced audio property?I already installed de win10 drivers.Should i do anything else more?


----------



## Franklin

I'm using Fiio Q5 for about 2 months now, every working day, 100% of the time paired with LG G6 via Bluetooth. So, i have some possible improvements to suggest to @FiiO  for future firmwares and/or Fiio App.

- Every morning when i turn on Q5, I need to turn on Bluetooth, pressing BT PLAY/PAUSE button for 2s after press for 1s the Power Button. So, will be very usefull if in the future we have the option to turn on BT when Q5 starts. I thought 2 ways to do that (if possible, of course):

    1 - adding an option on Fiio App to turn on BT when turn on Q5
    2 - adding a function to turn on both BT and Q5 when pressing PLAY/PAUSE button for 2s (when q5 is off) and leave POWER button turn on only the Q5

- With recent update of LG G6 to Android 8, i noticed that BT AAC is enabled by default when connected to Q5, even after change it to APT-X on android developer options. Now G6 suports AAC, APT-X, APT-X HD and LDAC, so i think G6 is setting AAC during protocol negociation with Q5, since Q5 supports both (AAC and APT-X). An option do set de default BT protocol on Q5 side will be very helpful!

Thank's for this amazing device Fiio, I hope more and more improvements to come.


----------



## khyaris

I don’t think the RGB indicator option in the app works properly.
If you turn the option off, the led is off but if you change the source (e.g from Spotify to Hiby) the led is on but the option is still turned off.
Also if the led is off and you restart the Q5, the led is on but the option is still turned off....

@Franklin I agree with you, an option to turn automatically BT on would be great.


----------



## Brooko

Currawong said:


> The drivers install, according to the installer, but don't show up in the Device Manager. The main problem is when I connect to the side USB port while the device is in Bluetooth mode, no computer recognises that there is a USB device connected at all, even after I put it in upgrade mode by pushing both forward and back buttons.



Amos - unless you have changed the settings (via the app) the side port is for power only - while the bottom post is for data and power.  This can be changed within the app.

Did you get the Bluetooth upgrade sorted?

What I mean from post last week ......

I used a PC for upgrade.  When I got to the Bluetooth section, the driver wouldn't load.  Then I realised - my PC does not have Bluetooth hardware.  In order to have the software engaged - it was necessary to connect Bluetooth hardware - to effectively enable Bluetooth transmission.  As soon as I did this, the drive loaded, and I could complete the upgrade.  Any USB Bluetooth transmitter should work


----------



## Brooko

Alex Kitic said:


> I have recently acquired the Q5 (new, unopened box), and am rather satisfied with the sound quality over headphones (standard and balanced) as well as over the line output.
> The sound quality over line output is definitely comparable to full-size DACs. The sound quality over headphones output is better than most DACs and CD players that have a headphone output (which comes as no surprise, due to the poor quality of most commercial solutions).
> I mostly listen to HiRes PCM (over coax input on the Q5) and DSD and HiRes PCM (over USB connection to either Mac or PC).
> Of course, I do also listen to standard PCM (ripped CDs), and those sound very good as well.
> ...



Give me a chance to get mine fully charged = then I'll mimic your usage and let you know how much battery life on my unit.


----------



## Currawong

Brooko said:


> Amos - unless you have changed the settings (via the app) the side port is for power only - while the bottom post is for data and power.



For the Bluetooth update, it specifically states to plug the Q5 in via the side port while in Bluetooth mode.


----------



## Brooko

Yes but - if Bluetooth driver not loaded, it wont' recognise anything anyway.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jun 16, 2018)

Currawong said:


> The drivers install, according to the installer, but don't show up in the Device Manager. The main problem is when I connect to the side USB port while the device is in Bluetooth mode, no computer recognises that there is a USB device connected at all, even after I put it in upgrade mode by pushing both forward and back buttons.


If I recall, I had to make sure that the extracted files were inside the directory where the bin file was (I believe that was it) I wish I remembered exactly what I did, but I initially had the exact problem and remember thinking after I solved it that the instructions should mention that the files all need to be together when the update program is run. Odd that I don't remember exactly the steps I took, but I do know that I had your exact issue and after making sure the files were in the right place, the update ran seamlessly.

Hopefully somebody else with a better memory can chime in and give you more specific guidance, but it is a paths issue for sure.


----------



## Brooko

Alex Kitic said:


> I have recently acquired the Q5 (new, unopened box), and am rather satisfied with the sound quality over headphones (standard and balanced) as well as over the line output.
> The sound quality over line output is definitely comparable to full-size DACs. The sound quality over headphones output is better than most DACs and CD players that have a headphone output (which comes as no surprise, due to the poor quality of most commercial solutions).
> I mostly listen to HiRes PCM (over coax input on the Q5) and DSD and HiRes PCM (over USB connection to either Mac or PC).
> Of course, I do also listen to standard PCM (ripped CDs), and those sound very good as well.
> ...



Just realised I hadn't replied.

Set-up : X7 original to Q5 via coax.  Files have been a mixture of redbook, 24/96, and some aac256.  So far 7 hours in - and no signs of it quitting yet.  If you are only getting 5 hours - I'd get your battery checked.  IMO  - something is wrong.


----------



## joshnor713

Hey guys, I posted a detailed synopsis of the Q5 for anyone interested:

https://www.thesynops.com/fiio-q5-portable-dac-synopsis/

 

Great DAC


----------



## Alex Kitic

Brooko said:


> Just realised I hadn't replied.
> 
> Set-up : X7 original to Q5 via coax.  Files have been a mixture of redbook, 24/96, and some aac256.  So far 7 hours in - and no signs of it quitting yet.  If you are only getting 5 hours - I'd get your battery checked.  IMO  - something is wrong.



Thank you Brooko.
You didn’t mention the headphones you used for the test, and the volume level you have set.
It should probably last longer without headphones, as line output only...


----------



## Alex Kitic

joshnor713 said:


> Hey guys, I posted a detailed synopsis of the Q5 for anyone interested:
> 
> https://www.thesynops.com/fiio-q5-portable-dac-synopsis/
> 
> ...



I disagree on the USB connection: USB C would make it more difficult for users who insist on serious USB cables for their connections to the pc/mac.
With the standard USB micro a regular OTG adapter (hardwired) can be used to convert to standard USB B and to connect a standard serious audio USB cable from that point on.

BTW, nice write, but the need to review equipment (and go to great lengths about it, posting photos etc) eludes me, as there seems to be loads of reviews, mostly repeating the same baseline, but with little real audiophile content (cables used, HiRes music listened to, serious systems attached, etc). The reviews are more or less the same, enticements to buy a gadget. Had I just read those reviews I would probably not have bought the device, because the reviewers seem to be easily contented with the sound of the devices reviewed. It all has a mass-consumption appeal.


----------



## Brooko

Alex Kitic said:


> Thank you Brooko.
> You didn’t mention the headphones you used for the test, and the volume level you have set.
> It should probably last longer without headphones, as line output only...


Sorry - should have included that info. HD800S via the balanced port. My usual listening level is around 70 dB, so only about 25-30% of the pot. I only ended up with about 8 hours. Will do another test SE with IEMs.


----------



## Currawong

Playing back high res is possibly draining the battery faster.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Currawong said:


> Playing back high res is possibly draining the battery faster.


Yes, that is very likely a factor, or so I would think.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Alex Kitic said:


> I disagree on the USB connection: USB C would make it more difficult for users who insist on serious USB cables for their connections to the pc/mac.
> With the standard USB micro a regular OTG adapter (hardwired) can be used to convert to standard USB B and to connect a standard serious audio USB cable from that point on.
> 
> BTW, nice write, but the need to review equipment (and go to great lengths about it, posting photos etc) eludes me, as there seems to be loads of reviews, mostly repeating the same baseline, but with little real audiophile content (cables used, HiRes music listened to, serious systems attached, etc). The reviews are more or less the same, enticements to buy a gadget. Had I just read those reviews I would probably not have bought the device, because the reviewers seem to be easily contented with the sound of the devices reviewed. It all has a mass-consumption appeal.


The consistency of reviews is likely good in the sense that people are equally enjoying the Q5. I'm not sure how many ways there are to describe sound? I sometimes read reviews where the reviewers are obviously trying to make their review sound different and they end up using such vague descriptors that it is essentially meaningless. What does the deepest notes are fully resolved in ....... mean? How do I know that that reviewer has the ability to detect the deepest notes being resolved? For all I know they have crappy hearing compared to me. I'm just trying to imagine what the content of a review should be to not appeal to the masses? And to be fair, FiiO is making this device for the masses, at least I'm quite sure they would be happy with the masses buying the Q5. I think the Q5 is cracking good and when my review goes up I'm going to come across as easily contented simply because the Q5 really does sound excellent, so I'm content. I'm not going to conversely try to find things to say bad about it simply to have something negative to say. To this point I haven't had a single issue with the sound so I'll warn people in advance, my review is likely to be contentedly favourable.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Alex Kitic said:


> (...) (a typical user of such a device listens mostly to HiRes PCM and DSD, and uses headphones that are not particularly easy to drive like the HD650 -- as opposed to a user who listens to mp3 and other compressed 16 bit files over earbugs of the easy to drive "phone-ready" kind).





Alex Kitic said:


> (...)
> BTW, nice write, but the need to review equipment (and go to great lengths about it, posting photos etc) eludes me, as there seems to be loads of reviews, mostly repeating the same baseline, but with little real audiophile content (cables used, HiRes music listened to, serious systems attached, etc). The reviews are more or less the same, enticements to buy a gadget. Had I just read those reviews I would probably not have bought the device, because the reviewers seem to be easily contented with the sound of the devices reviewed. It all has a mass-consumption appeal.



That's because there are two types or "audiophiles". Technical inclined ones who value cold numbers, graphs, supposedly minute differences about how cables "sound"...
And then there are others who generally don't call themselves audiophiles and value musical emotion above technical data and rely only on what they hear and enjoy or not. I value their opinions too because ultimately music is art not mathematics.
There's nothing wrong with either category but don't assume that "a typical user of such a device listens mostly to HiRes PCM and DSD". 
I don't want to start a classic debate but there are many as me who don't hear a difference between 16bit 44.1 FLAC encoded from the same Hi-res or DSD file.
I didn't read any review here that sounds like an "enticement to buy a gadget" either. Just users opinions, more or less technical.


----------



## Alex Kitic

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, that is very likely a factor, or so I would think.



In a previous post I have already made a simple calculation showing that based on DAC datasheet data higher sampling rates do increase power draw of the DAC chip, therefore have an effect on the battery life.
Nevertheless, my simple calculation has shown this to be 12% more current draw on the DAC chip -- but it is not the only "energy consumer" in the device.
The output amplifier actually draws higher current, and it does not care whether it is amplifying mp3 derived PCM or the higher quality DSD -- what matters is volume and headphones type (necessary power to amplify the signal to needed level).

I am just trying to point out that HiRes is _not likely_ to cause shorter battery life in the case of a DAC/Amp -- and specifically in the case of the Q5.


----------



## Alex Kitic

Sonic Defender said:


> The consistency of reviews is likely good in the sense that people are equally enjoying the Q5. I'm not sure how many ways there are to describe sound? I sometimes read reviews where the reviewers are obviously trying to make their review sound different and they end up using such vague descriptors that it is essentially meaningless. What does the deepest notes are fully resolved in ....... mean? ...



I understand your concern and general bias towards "audiophiles" and "audiophile reviewers". Like in any other field, there are extremes on either side.
While there have been attempts to "standardize" definitions of sound quality, soundstaging, etc -- just try to remember the early Absolute Sound days, and Stereophile of yesteryear, or the HFN&RR reviewers -- this has given rise to a type of reviewer who uses mystical and not easily understandable words to convey how one piece of equipment is better or not so much better than another which is considered as a reference... it's a mess, but not everyone is knowledgeable and it's understandable that copy-cats are to follow on ground-breaking examples.

Vague descriptors and disputable methodology should thereby remain with those ill-prepared Hi-End reviewers. What I am trying to explain is related to some specifics that are, particularly nowadays, a rarified category.
One needs to have "trained" or "experienced" ears in order to discern the last few percents of quality.  Those who cannot hear the difference, both do not understand the difference, and do not care about it - because the difference is immaterial to them. "Problems" arise when those who cannot hear imply that the difference does not exist... and those who can hear feel offended by such simplicistic attitude.

Mentioning associated equipment and cables, let me assume that you have connected the Q5 to a PC/mac and are using it as a DAC over USB. Now, if you're using the supplied USB cable, or some other "generic" USB cable -- instead of a dedicated audio USB cable, you cannot possibly say how good/bad does the Q5 perform, because you are not getting the fully picture. It is possible that you do not hear the difference between 2 USB cables, both because you have not trained your ears to do it (not enough listening experience, or musical experience in general) - or because you do not have the remaining "equpiment" necessary in order to hear the difference (for instance, good enough headphones, or a good hi-fi or should I say hi-end system). Besides the fact that differences between headphones are very easy to understand once you try several, there is no guarantee that the headphones used are good enough (not masking, not introducing colorations...) to allow the listener to hear the difference. The difference in sound between USB cables exist, and is totally comparable to the difference in sound between coaxial digital cables -- after all, the USB cable has 2 sets of cables, one set carrying power and power ground, while the other is carrying the signal, in this case a digital stream not so dissimilar to the one being carried by coaxial digital cables. I guess some people do not hear the difference between two coaxial digital cables, or 2 interconnect cables, or 2 speaker cables -- and I do not blame them: that's actually normal, since it takes both good hearing and some "training" to hear the minute differences. Just think of musicians and the years they have devoted to mastering their abilities: it's not that dissimilar when it comes to music listeners.

So, if a reviewer lists the Q5 used as DAC, and lists some universally acclaimed headphones, like HD600-650-800 or the various Beyerdynamics etc -- it's a pity that we are missing the information what was used as source, both in terms of cable (DAC connected to some device, like a CD player, or a PC/mac), not to mention that it is not unimportant whether the files listened to were AAC or DSD. To one who does not hear-know the difference, this might be irrelevant, but the moment the review goes into "sounded very well with my AAC files" I sort of loose interest because I can hear-know the difference between an AAC file and a lossless file, and PCM and DSD files. If the reviewer does not hear-know this difference, that's fine, but not for me because I cannot rely on his impression. Likewise, the review of a reviewer who has listened to the Q5 with HD650 (just like I might do) connected to his computer via a (some, generic) USB cable becomes irrelevant to me because I know the difference between a generic USB and for instance an Audioquest Cinnamon and a Wireworld Silver Starlight. The difference in the level of details audible with the latter two is so large that I would not dare give an educated judgement of the sonic performance of a DAC which I had to listen connected with some generic cables (and there is an audible difference between two generic USB cables, too, although it might not be so pronounced and easy to define as between a good audiophile USB cable and a generic cable).

I am aware that many if not most do not hear the differences. The reasons are either lack of equipment/source or lack of experience/training/capability. I respect that and I do not judge people for not being audiophile oriented. But I can hear the differences, and those matter to me -- thus most if not all reviews are to me (and other people similar to me) just vague direction descriptors. And this is what I fail to understand - vagueness "en masse", or lots of reviews that actually don't tell you anything you were not able to understand on your own.


----------



## Alex Kitic

KopaneDePooj said:


> That's because there are two types or "audiophiles". Technical inclined ones who value cold numbers, graphs, supposedly minute differences about how cables "sound"...
> And then there are others who generally don't call themselves audiophiles and value musical emotion above technical data and rely only on what they hear and enjoy or not. I value their opinions too because ultimately music is art not mathematics.
> There's nothing wrong with either category but don't assume that "a typical user of such a device listens mostly to HiRes PCM and DSD".
> I don't want to start a classic debate but there are many as me who don't hear a difference between 16bit 44.1 FLAC encoded from the same Hi-res or DSD file.
> I didn't read any review here that sounds like an "enticement to buy a gadget" either. Just users opinions, more or less technical.



I have just written a long post about a similar topic, and would not have replied to this one specifically had it not been for the opposite nature between the two - both leading in the same direction.

Basically, this is about the "technical audiophile" against "music lover" - where actually in modern language "audiophile" seems to be opposed to "technical". Audiophiles are more likely to be defined as "audiophools" who read about nuance differences in "who-knows-what" - than as technically minded people who are interested in the number of bits or distortion figures.

I am actually a music lover, and value the musical emotion above technical data -- but I can also hear the music and all those emotions do not come from listening to music on an informative plastic loudspeaker connected to the sound card of my computer, but to a system most would define as Hi-End. And, I am aware that not every piece of equipment is going to be able to convey all the tiny details that make music into an emotional experience as opposed to receiving information about the general notation, or the text of the song, or the music genre. There is going to be some technical stuff behind that piece of equipment, and one can be technically illiterate but able to hear that one DAC has higher sound quality compared to another. Whoever values music as an experience will value the sound heard: this will lead to the quality of the music source (file, recording) and the equipment used to reproduce it. We are not talking about a deaf composer who does not need to hear to compose because the music is in his mind... we are talking about a music lover who needs to hear the music and will not be elated if it does not "sound right".

As for the debate, no need for that: I am fully aware that most people do not hear the difference, either because they do not know what is it that they have to hear (not trained/experienced) or because they just cannot hear the difference. I respect the abilities of others, but I also like when others respect my abilities. Just make a step out of the box and let a music lover who has no interest in technical details listen to a good system for a week, and then let him listen to an average or poor system - and see for yourself if he/she likes it, and if he/she hears the difference (i.e. what is missing).

As for the reviews and "enticement to buy" I was not referring (necessarily or primarily) to reviews on Head-Fi -- but in general. The "net" is full of reviews for the same piece of equipment i.e. gadget of some kind, and most of these are so repetitive and lack real information that I can imagine people writing those based on what they read in the official information provided by the manufacturer. Without real information and (relevant) personal experience, such a review, particularly if favorable (and the absolute majority of reviews for the majority of devices are favorable) seems just as another ad or marketing piece -- and that's called enticement to buy, if I have a good enough command of the English language.

For instance, a reviewer (most, actually) just states that battery life on the Q5 is 10 hours with bluetooth connection (or without stating the connection...) without any additional details about the use-case that lead to the 10 hours figure. The 10 hours is a figure taken from the manufacturers site, and copy/pasted in so many reviews. Now I am having serious doubts about the battery life data myself, and am not particularly likely to blame it on the battery of my Q5, among other reasons because my X3 gen2 has also never approached the battery life stated by the manufacturer. While my use-case is probably different than most, there is no technical evidence that the difference in use case (type of files listened to) has such a major impact on battery life. While my experience is borderline unacceptable, it seems that most other users (as read on forums, and some reviews) who have really listened to the device(s) were also not able to reach the advertised battery life figures. Now, what I am questioning is if a reviewer plainly writes "10 hours battery life", has has/she really used the device? If it weren't for the elaborate photos in most reviews, one would be lead to believe that those are just texts by writers who might have not even seen the device in real life (i.e just pictures of it).


----------



## Sonic Defender

Alex Kitic said:


> In a previous post I have already made a simple calculation showing that based on DAC datasheet data higher sampling rates do increase power draw of the DAC chip, therefore have an effect on the battery life.
> Nevertheless, my simple calculation has shown this to be 12% more current draw on the DAC chip -- but it is not the only "energy consumer" in the device.
> The output amplifier actually draws higher current, and it does not care whether it is amplifying mp3 derived PCM or the higher quality DSD -- what matters is volume and headphones type (necessary power to amplify the signal to needed level).
> 
> I am just trying to point out that HiRes is _not likely_ to cause shorter battery life in the case of a DAC/Amp -- and specifically in the case of the Q5.


Interesting. I used to believe, possibly erroneously, that playback volume mattered, however I have read a few accounts from people who used quasi-experiments to test this assumption and found no appreciable relationship between playback volume, and battery draw. I haven't done this myself, so I am parroting here, my apology. Maybe a few others have some direct experience with this to share.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jun 18, 2018)

And briefly speaking to the point made about multiple reviews, in my mind they have value, on two levels. The first level is almost an entertainment level, I like reading about the experiences of other people as they enjoy audio reproduction and music. I love reading the language they use, and seeing their photography skills. It is just nice to see people enjoying their gear. Secondly, I do like to read many reviews as this gives me as many data points as possible, and that is typically a good thing. Bigger sample size = more power and that is a desirable end. Sure, some people may just repeat what they have read, that's fine, you get noise in any data, but the overall effect of multiple reviews is a positive thing. Additionally, when you have been in the hobby for a long enough time, you develop somewhat of a sense that can help you spot fluff from substance and you get to know some reviewers and have had a chance to correlate their review language with your experience of the gear being reviewed. This correlation gives you some degree of confidence that you may experience the piece of gear in question in a fairly similar manner.

Ultimately for me I like to read reviews, they are enjoyable and I really appreciate the efforts of others and I definitely do learn from them. Some reviewers are really quite knowledgeable and they help me fill in the gaps in my knowledge (of which I freely admit there are many). Yes, there are times the reviewers could perhaps provide more context, absolutely, but I can take that into account when reading and often I will come across a review that will cover what others have left (hence why as many reviews as possible on a piece of gear is important, in my view).


----------



## OceanEleven

Need some advice. If pair the Q5 with Fiio X7 (first gen) on AM5, would it be an overkill?


----------



## FiiO

Currawong said:


> The drivers install, according to the installer, but don't show up in the Device Manager. The main problem is when I connect to the side USB port while the device is in Bluetooth mode, no computer recognises that there is a USB device connected at all, even after I put it in upgrade mode by pushing both forward and back buttons.


Dear friend,

Try to turn on the Q5 and hold the Bluetooth pairing/switch button for 5s to force a pairing(Blue and red led alternately flashing). Then hold the "Previous track" and "Next track buttons" at the same time to let the Q5 enter Bluetooth upgrade mode (with the status indicator pulsating or staying constantly on in Blue). 
After this, connect the Q5 to the computer via the side USB port. Also install the DPInst.exe driver, can the CSR Bluetooth in DFU mode show up now in the device manager?

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Hey @FiiO 
The Q5 connects in 44.1 kHz mode by default in SBC and AAC mode in Android. But for aptX it defaults to 48 kHz and it must be switched manually to 44.1 on every connection, in Developer settings.
Is this an option that can be controlled on Q5 side to default also to 44.1 for aptX? At 48 kHz it has problems that I mentioned in earlier posts.
(HTC 10 / Android 8.0)


----------



## gavinfabl

Sonic Defender said:


> Thanks, but if the battery isn't charging that of course really concerns me. Has anybody else experienced this? I'm pretty confident that this started after the firmware update.



Have you also tried the pin hole reset? 

I am a Mac users so have been unable to update the Q5 until yesterday when I borrowed a friends windows 10 laptop. Rather optimisticly I said I would only need it for an hour. I did follow all the instructions, had quite a few hitches, but all done both firmware and Bluetooth updated. So not user friendly method of updating the Q5. Or updating anything. I hope Fiio find a better solution. Slick software compliments good hardware more than ever now! 

I have had no issues charging it since update. 

I have the AM5 module on my Q5 and I connected the Fiio M7 via USB yesterday. Connected both my Sennheiser HD598 which sounded the best I’ve ever heard them and then I used my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohms and mamma mia what a great combo as well.


----------



## gavinfabl

Currawong said:


> The drivers install, according to the installer, but don't show up in the Device Manager. The main problem is when I connect to the side USB port while the device is in Bluetooth mode, no computer recognises that there is a USB device connected at all, even after I put it in upgrade mode by pushing both forward and back buttons.



I had this same issue. What I found was I had to right click on the installer and select some compatibility option, change to windows 7 and that it needed additional permissions to install, and then the anti virus or windows 10 software (not sure what ) was blocking the install, but once I clicked ok in another small pop up window, the installer installed. I checked and it was shown in the device manager. 

Then connect the Q5 as shown and put into Bluetooth pairing mode.  It should work.


----------



## Sonic Defender

gavinfabl said:


> Have you also tried the pin hole reset?


Thanks for the post, as it turns out, there never was an issue, I was simply unaware of how the battery status LED signals work. I still would prefer some feedback when charging whatever the state of the battery charge, but at least there is nothing wrong with my Q5. I'm looking forward to reviewing it after the 26th when my term paper is done!


----------



## Turboturbo

Same, looking for a frd who has a window laptop that I can borrow now..



gavinfabl said:


> Have you also tried the pin hole reset?
> 
> I am a Mac users so have been unable to update the Q5 until yesterday when I borrowed a friends windows 10 laptop. Rather optimisticly I said I would only need it for an hour. I did follow all the instructions, had quite a few hitches, but all done both firmware and Bluetooth updated. So not user friendly method of updating the Q5. Or updating anything. I hope Fiio find a better solution. Slick software compliments good hardware more than ever now!
> 
> ...


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> Hey @FiiO
> The Q5 connects in 44.1 kHz mode by default in SBC and AAC mode in Android. But for aptX it defaults to 48 kHz and it must be switched manually to 44.1 on every connection, in Developer settings.
> Is this an option that can be controlled on Q5 side to default also to 44.1 for aptX? At 48 kHz it has problems that I mentioned in earlier posts.
> (HTC 10 / Android 8.0)


Dear friend,

Sorry that we are not sure what leads to the issue. But I checked and found that some users mentioned their problem with fixed 48kHz in some phones when using Bluetooth function with other Bluetooth devices as well. 
Did you try another phone with APTX function as well?

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Jun 25, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Sorry that we are not sure what leads to the issue. But I checked and found that some users mentioned their problem with fixed 48kHz in some phones when using Bluetooth function with other Bluetooth devices as well.
> Did you try another phone with APTX function as well?
> ...



I just tried with a friend's phone - Samsung Galaxy A5 (2017) with Android 8.0 - it's all well, it connects by default in 44.1 kHz mode / aptX and has no sound drops.
So yes... my HTC 10 has a buggy Bluetooth since Android 8.0  Thing is they have a very bad customer support, won't acknowledge the problem or communicate with me.
And I thought if FiiO as a Bluetooth device producer would contact them about the problem, maybe they will solve it in a future system update.

Thanks!


----------



## Currawong (Jun 26, 2018)

gavinfabl said:


> I had this same issue. What I found was I had to right click on the installer and select some compatibility option, change to windows 7 and that it needed additional permissions to install, and then the anti virus or windows 10 software (not sure what ) was blocking the install, but once I clicked ok in another small pop up window, the installer installed. I checked and it was shown in the device manager.
> 
> Then connect the Q5 as shown and put into Bluetooth pairing mode.  It should work.



I tried on another machine, with a completely fresh Windows 10 install (which may now be part of the problem) and now I get, for the DFU Wizard (which is from 2014) _"The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect."
_
I found a solution: Download BlueSuite from here: http://www.kcwirefree.com/docs/BlueSuite_2.6.2.zip, install it, and then select the firmware to upgrade with through the installed DFUWizard.


----------



## elNan

I know the Q5 doesn’t support aptx Low Latency, but has anyone tried it via bluetooth with a ps4 or xbox one (using a bluetooth transmitter on the console)?Is the latency high enough to ruin the experience?

I’m planning on getting this aptx HD/LL enabled transmitter to connect my consoles to a bluetooth enabled DAC/Amp:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BQYYDNJ/


----------



## FiiO

Currawong said:


> I tried on another machine, with a completely fresh Windows 10 install (which may now be part of the problem) and now I get, for the DFU Wizard (which is from 2014) _"The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect."
> _
> I found a solution: Download BlueSuite from here: http://www.kcwirefree.com/docs/BlueSuite_2.6.2.zip, install it, and then select the firmware to upgrade with through the installed DFUWizard.


Dear friend,

Maybe could you tell us your Windows 10 is 64bit one? Thanks in advanced!

Best regards


----------



## khyaris

khyaris said:


> I don’t think the RGB indicator option in the app works properly.
> If you turn the option off, the led is off but if you change the source (e.g from Spotify to Hiby) the led is on but the option is still turned off.
> Also if the led is off and you restart the Q5, the led is on but the option is still turned off in the app....



@FiiO Could you get back to us regarding this ? 

Also sometimes you have to manually close the FiiO app for the Q5 to appear, in Android.


----------



## Currawong

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Maybe could you tell us your Windows 10 is 64bit one? Thanks in advanced!
> 
> Best regards



Yes. 64 bit.


----------



## FiiO

khyaris said:


> @FiiO Could you get back to us regarding this ?
> 
> Also sometimes you have to manually close the FiiO app for the Q5 to appear, in Android.


Dear friend,

Did you turn off the Bluetooth and reconnect after switching to other APP? The Bluetooth connection indicator light would light up still when reconnecting.
When restarting the Q5, the LED indicator would light and switch and then turn off if you turn off the RGB indicator option.
You may need to connect the Q5 to the phone via Bluetooth first before turning on the FiiO Music.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Currawong said:


> Yes. 64 bit.


Dear friend,

I google this issue may happen because of using the Windows 64bit. Changing to the 32bit one could help instead.

Best regards


----------



## Currawong

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> I google this issue may happen because of using the Windows 64bit. Changing to the 32bit one could help instead.
> 
> Best regards



Offering the latest version of the firmware flash utility also solves the problem, especially since many of your customers will be using the latest version of Windows, not old versions.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Currawong said:


> Offering the latest version of the firmware flash utility also solves the problem, especially since many of your customers will be using the latest version of Windows, not old versions.


Does anybody use the 32bit version? So I take it that you managed to solve the issue Amos? I hope so, that must have been frustrating.


----------



## Currawong

@Sonic Defender Yes, it did. I don't use Windows often, because it seems that every time I do, something goes wrong. I think the problem may be related to people in China tending to use older versions of Windows, at least from what I can tell.


----------



## Duncan

I've been a bit quiet recently, just been enjoying the Q5, alongside a Pokémon-esque "gotta catch 'em all" attitude to the amp modules...  Strangely my opinion differs on the AM2A vs AM5 posts that I've seen floating around, the AM2A sounding a fair bit cleaner / open than the AM5.

The AM2A is my favourite module by quite a margin, still have no idea what an ARDZ version of the AD chip is, but, if it carries on playing music this sweetly, cannot say I'm that bothered!

WTG FiiO!, Now I should have enough FiiO coins to get something half decent when they open up the store!


----------



## gavinfabl (Jun 30, 2018)

Just gone to charge my Q5 and it appears not to be charging . The red LED isn't appearing to say charging. Checked with Fiio music app, the charging cable is plugged into the side, tried the reset hole, is there anything else to try?

And just like that it's working now.


----------



## Sonic Defender

gavinfabl said:


> Just gone to charge my Q5 and it appears not to be charging . The red LED isn't appearing to say charging. Checked with Fiio music app, the charging cable is plugged into the side, tried the reset hole, is there anything else to try?
> 
> And just like that it's working now.


Sounds like you have the same issue I had. It charges, but the LED indicator light only comes on if I understand things correctly at a certain state of battery discharge. I was worried about this, but I can assure you that it is charging. What this may mean is that people like you and I don't like to run our battery down very much (I'm certainly guilty of that). I would suggest that when you think you want to charge it, wait a little while longer. After the additional play time if the charge status isn't on not sure what to say, or perhaps you need to keep discharging the battery. If I am incorrect I hope somebody with more knowledge will chime in.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Our Fiio Q5 review is finally online, sorry for the delay 
It's a good one!! https://www.headfonia.com/review-fiio-q5/


----------



## Currawong

Nice match with the new HiFiMan Sundara, especially the bass boost, which fills out the sound a bit when desired.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just loving the Q5 with my Pioneer SE Monitor 5. Great combination. I have yet to find anything that I don't like about the Q5 (besides tiny quibbles with the LED light bar in daylight or battery charging status indication). The Q5 keeps the Pioneer's bass very tight and responsive so certainly it can control the driver nicely.


----------



## bahamot (Jul 8, 2018)

Since updated the firmware, my Q5 auto turned off every 7-10 minutes. This is while playing DSD through USB from my phone. If playing through Bluetooth then it's all good.
I've tried swap the amp, reset the Q5. But it's still the same.
@FiiO, is there anything else I can try before sending it in for a replacement?


----------



## Sonic Defender

bahamot said:


> Since updated the firmware, my Q5 auto turned off every 7-10 minutes. This is while playing DSD through USB from my phone. If playing through Bluetooth then it's all good.
> I've swap the amp, reset the Q5. But it's still the same.
> @FiiO, is there anything else I can try before sending it in for a replacement?


Bummer, sorry to hear that. Hopefully it is an issue that can be resolved with an update for you rather than a replacement. Good luck with this.


----------



## bahamot

bahamot said:


> Since updated the firmware, my Q5 auto turned off every 7-10 minutes. This is while playing DSD through USB from my phone. If playing through Bluetooth then it's all good.
> I've tried swap the amp, reset the Q5. But it's still the same.
> @FiiO, is there anything else I can try before sending it in for a replacement?



@FiiO , I think I found bug on the firmware. To replicate the issue:
1. set the filter to Super Slow
2. play DSD files. 
3. after around 9 minutes (around the value of idle power off value)
4. the Q5 will auto off.


----------



## Currawong

Video review. Written review to come later.


----------



## FiiO

bahamot said:


> @FiiO , I think I found bug on the firmware. To replicate the issue:
> 1. set the filter to Super Slow
> 2. play DSD files.
> 3. after around 9 minutes (around the value of idle power off value)
> 4. the Q5 will auto off.


Dear friend,

We failed to reproduce the issue you met. Please check the idle poweroff settings from FiiO Music-Q5. Is it off or 10 mins instead? Your mobile phone is the Android or iPhone?

Best regards


----------



## bahamot

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We failed to reproduce the issue you met. Please check the idle poweroff settings from FiiO Music-Q5. Is it off or 10 mins instead? Your mobile phone is the Android or iPhone?
> 
> Best regards



HI, 

- Idle power off is set to 10 minutes. (which shouldn't be a problem since it's constantly playing DSD) 
- The phone is Xiaomi Mi6. 

Thanks.


----------



## svemo (Jul 11, 2018)

Hi everyone!
Currawong's review made me interested in the different digital filters.
Is there any way to change them using an Android phone? I didn't find any option for that
in the Fiio Music beta app.
Really enjoying it so for with Beyer T5p 2nd and especially with AK8TIE mk2 on balanced mode.

Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

bahamot said:


> HI,
> 
> - Idle power off is set to 10 minutes. (which shouldn't be a problem since it's constantly playing DSD)
> - The phone is Xiaomi Mi6.
> ...


PM you for more information.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

svemo said:


> Hi everyone!
> Currawong's review made me interested in the different digital filters.
> Is there any way to change them using an Android phone? I didn't find any option for that
> in the Fiio Music beta app.
> ...


Dear friend, 

You would need to connect the Q5 to your Android phone via Bluetooth. Then you could find the FiiO Q5 in the menu of FiiO Music.

Best regards


----------



## Duncan

svemo said:


> Hi everyone!
> Currawong's review made me interested in the different digital filters.
> Is there any way to change them using an Android phone? I didn't find any option for that
> in the Fiio Music beta app.
> ...


 would you svemo, owning both - say as others have, that the T8IE MK2 and T5P sound very similar? Would be interested in your take on that!

As to me, I didn't like the AM3A balanced as much as I do the AM5, and to a greater extent, the AM2A single ended...  The 2A has absolutely amazing synergy with the little T8s... Have you tried any of the other amp modules yourself?


----------



## svemo (Jul 16, 2018)

Duncan said:


> would you svemo, owning both - say as others have, that the T8IE MK2 and T5P sound very similar? Would be interested in your take on that!
> 
> As to me, I didn't like the AM3A balanced as much as I do the AM5, and to a greater extent, the AM2A single ended...  The 2A has absolutely amazing synergy with the little T8s... Have you tried any of the other amp modules yourself?



Hi Duncan! I haven't tried any other amp modules yet but will receive a balanced cable for my T5p soon, so I may be able to give another take on its use with Q5. Some people on the T5p thread have remarked that it would be another step up in sound quality due to more current.

I think AK8TIE MkII has quite a nice synergy with am3a in balanced mode, it is less warm than what I was used to directly out of my Galaxy S8+ or Dragonfly Red (sold now). On balanced mode it sounds more alike to T5p than single ended since the bass gets a little more punchy and defined.

In my opinion, T5p 2nd is a step up in sound quality compared to its IEM sibling. The most noticible differences are it's greater treble extension, resolution and soundstage.
I can clearly notice the difference between Bluetooth and wired mode on Q5 with T5p, not as much with Ak8. I can also clearly hear the difference between MP3 and flac/hires quality as well. Instruments have more air around them and directional queues are clearer and soundstage is deeper, whereas Ak8 feels more like a wall of sound. It sounds more like an open headphone than Ak8.
Resolution on well recorded albums is absolutely great, you hear more micro details and layers of sound that you have to concentrate more on if you want to hear them on Ak8 (some may even be lost on them). Bass is more powerful and extends very deep when asked for, but is less in quantity.
It always takes some short brain burn in when switching between these two, as T5p can sound a little brighter in comparison. If I use it on desktop, I sometimes add +6db from 0-100hz frequencies.
Since T5p is more detailed, it can also get more fatiguing than Ak8. It demands more attention.
I can listen to Ak8 all day long due to its more laid back treble extension, therefore it has become my favourite phone for painting.
If you're interested in T5p I would definitely give them a try, coming from Ak8. If you buy a used pair, they are a great deal!
They are still the best closed headphone I've heard so far, definitely better than Nightowl Carbon which I recently tried. Also better than Dt1770pro and PSB M4u/NAD Hp50. I've not heard Aeon closed, Ether C or Fostex cans though..
Hope this helps!


----------



## khyaris

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The Bluetooth connection indicator light would light up still when reconnecting.



Ok I didn't know it was the normal behaviour. 
Sounds fine to me. 

Hiby R3 is getting the LDAC certification for both sending and receiving audio signal, as @Joe Bloggs stated in the Hiby R3 thread.
What prevents you from trying to get the LDAC certification for receiving audio signal?


----------



## FiiO

khyaris said:


> Ok I didn't know it was the normal behaviour.
> Sounds fine to me.
> 
> Hiby R3 is getting the LDAC certification for both sending and receiving audio signal, as @Joe Bloggs stated in the Hiby R3 thread.
> What prevents you from trying to get the LDAC certification for receiving audio signal?


Dear friend,

If you like the LDAC function for the player, our M7 can support that. 

Best regards


----------



## khyaris

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> If you like the LDAC function for the player, our M7 can support that.
> 
> Best regards



Well I've got the Hiby R3, which has a better form factor than your M7 for stacking, in my opinion.

I understand your strategy, you want to have different devices with different functionalities, but I think you're taking the wrong direction doing so if that means limiting the Q5 BT possibilities.
If you can technically get LDAC certification you could destroy MOJO+POLY and the Q5 price point would be easily accepted by customers.


----------



## FiiO

khyaris said:


> Well I've got the Hiby R3, which has a better form factor than your M7 for stacking, in my opinion.
> 
> I understand your strategy, you want to have different devices with different functionalities, but I think you're taking the wrong direction doing so if that means limiting the Q5 BT possibilities.
> If you can technically get LDAC certification you could destroy MOJO+POLY and the Q5 price point would be easily accepted by customers.


Dear friend,

The hardware of the Q5 could not support the LDAC however.

Best regards


----------



## HiFiDJ

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> May be avialable in next month. It could theoretically support your mobilephone if it could support usb audio output.
> 
> Best regards


Does this cable work on a macbook pro by any chance?


----------



## FiiO

HiFiDJ said:


> Does this cable work on a macbook pro by any chance?


Dear friend,

According to the feedback from our engineer, the CL06 could work on the macbook.

Best regards


----------



## svemo

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> You would need to connect the Q5 to your Android phone via Bluetooth. Then you could find the FiiO Q5 in the menu of FiiO Music.
> 
> Best regards


Works now after firmware upgrade. Thanks!


----------



## Gimpinchair

So, the only way to update the firmware is with a Windows computer? Weird!


----------



## FiiO

Gimpinchair said:


> So, the only way to update the firmware is with a Windows computer? Weird!


Dear friend,

Yes, the update tool is only available in Windows computer. You may try to find a Windows computer for updating. 

Best regards


----------



## SteveNZ

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The hardware of the Q5 could not support the LDAC however.
> 
> Best regards



Why is this the case when many Android devices are gaining the protocol with Android 8.0 without any extra hardware?


----------



## khyaris

SteveNZ said:


> Why is this the case when many Android devices are gaining the protocol with Android 8.0 without any extra hardware?


I think some part of the cpu integrates the data, FiiO doesn't have one.
That would be my guess.


----------



## SteveNZ

khyaris said:


> I think some part of the cpu integrates the data, FiiO doesn't have one.
> That would be my guess.


Ah, that'd make sense. 

Very interested in the Q5 as a BT bridge between my Note 8 and my Oppo PM-3s as it'd make my commute much more comfortable, would like to be able to maximise quality. That said, given that the PM-3s apparently have proper balanced input support, what's a good source for a suitable cable from somewhere who will will ship internationally? Preferably without costing an arm and a leg


----------



## Sonic Defender

SteveNZ said:


> Why is this the case when many Android devices are gaining the protocol with Android 8.0 without any extra hardware?


Beyond that, don't be too worried, I can't imagine people could detect the difference between apt X and LDAC. The bit rate of apt X is already transparent to the user which I believe is 352. I used blind listening, multiple subject, multiple trial per subject tests at a head-fi meet I hosted and when comparing a 320mp3 with the lossless master it was made from not one of the 7 subjects could tell the files apart, not one. This result is the norm when people conduct well controlled, blind listening tests so if a 320mp3 file is transparent to the user really well implemented Bluetooth with apt X such as is the case with the FiiO Q5 should also be transparent to the user.


----------



## SteveNZ (Jul 26, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> Beyond that, don't be too worried, I can't imagine people could detect the difference between apt X and LDAC. The bit rate of apt X is already transparent to the user which I believe is 352. I used blind listening, multiple subject, multiple trial per subject tests at a head-fi meet I hosted and when comparing a 320mp3 with the lossless master it was made from not one of the 7 subjects could tell the files apart, not one. This result is the norm when people conduct well controlled, blind listening tests so if a 320mp3 file is transparent to the user really well implemented Bluetooth with apt X such as is the case with the FiiO Q5 should also be transparent to the user.


That's interesting to know, thanks. Given the obtuse nature of Bluetooth codecs I was imagining it being a bit of a case of "You don't know what you don't know", when Apt-X is "good enough" are you going to be perfectly happy with it until suddenly gaining an (ostensibly) superior codec which actually does produce noticeably better audio, especially in this sort of case when you aren't dealing with the rubbish amps built into most Bluetooth headphones.
That said,  I'm by and large pretty happy with my MB660's in most cases, and they are "only" Apt-X. Maybe it's a case of ignorance being bliss.


----------



## jrprana

How is Q5 sound signature compared to Oppo HA -2SE?
Although Oppo sounds nice, I find it not quite emotionally engaging, if that makes any sense at all.
Anybody has experienced with both?


----------



## Grayven

i just got one of these. I cant believe how good the thing sounds using Bluetooth on my both my Iphone and Ipad Pro.
Just crazy.


----------



## fe-lixx

Since the BTR3 has now been announced with outstanding support for Bluetooth codecs, will there be an updated version of the Q5, which uses the same Bluetooth chip as the BTR3?
This together with USB-C plugs and the updated amp modules would really turn the Q5 into a beast that leaves no wishes to be desired.

_________________________________ unrelated _________________________________

An unrelated question regarding the Q5/X7 amp modules: I'm a fan of my Multi-BA IEMs and "it is known" that they deliver the most neutral frequency response on headphone outputs with an output impedance of near-zero. So I've been looking what module is closest to zero according to the specs. And to my surprise, it's not the AM1 (＜0.5 Ω（32Ω load）), though that is still a very good value, but the new AM2A (<0,3Ω (32Ω load) ). The AM2 has the same value as the AM1, so the AM2A was an improvement in this regard (I'm not talking about all the other values or overall quality, just the output impedance), while the AM3A has an increased value above the 1 Ohm mark (Unbalanced: < 1,2 Ω （32 Ω load), Balanced: < 1,7 Ω （32 Ω load）), which is not ideal for IEMs at all (yes, I know, the AM3A is not made specifically for IEMs), compared to its predecessor AM3 (＜0.3 Ω（32Ω load）), which is even as good as the AM2A.

What do you guys make of this? First of all, did anybody ever verifiy the specs stated by FiiO? (Not that I don't trust their specs, it would just be nice to have a second source with maybe even more detailed measurements than the standard measurement with a 32 Ohm load)
And more interestingly, has anybody made any RMAA measurements with "difficult" IEMs like the good old UE triple.fi 10 or customs with many drivers or any of the higher Westone models? I'm not looking for a subjective "sounds better"/"sounds worse" comparison, but simple hard facts that can be measured. My aim is to have a "reference amp" that's driving any IEMs as neutral as possible, without changing the frequency response due to higher output impedances. With such an amp it would be easier to compare different IEMs, no matter how many drivers they have, because the amp doesn't influence the IEMs' own characteristics, at least not the frequency response.

I remember a guy called BadRobot, who posted on the German HiFi-Forum. He made a lot of exactly this kind of measurements, but unfortunately his posts are outdated, the graphs were hosted on his own site, which is now dead and not in the Internet Archive, sadly, but of course, because of the age, he didn't compare modern models of amps. It would have been a nice demonstration, though, for how extremely the output impedance can influence the frequency response of a complex Multi-BA IEM.
Ooh, actually I just found a post of his, where the images/graphs are still intact, and the IEMs are still relevant, especially as a general example for higher-end IEMs with multiple drivers! http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-211-590.html

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't mind, if I re-post his findings here. In this post he wanted to demonstrate that it isn't easy to find a player that drives his SE846s (and as comparison the TF10, which are known to be hard to drive) with as little influence to the near-linear frequency response of the players caused by the frequency dependent impedance of the complex IEMs. So these are no acoustic measurements, they're RMAA measurements of the players' frequency responses with the IEMs plugged in.



Spoiler: Abusing the spoiler button, so my post doesn't get HUGE



TF10 @ Hifiman HM801






SE846 @ Hifiman HM801





At this point he's apologizing about his setup for taking the measurements, because he didn't have the time yet to eradicate the problem causing the difference in the L/R channels, so this can be ignored.

He's pointing out an example of players like the that do have an output impedance near-zero, but still have an impedance dependent drop-off in the bass range, possibly caused by too small electrolyte coupling capacitors (I hope the translation of "Koppelelkos" is correct): The "Cowon" and "Colorfly".

TF10 @ Colorfly





SE846 @ Colorfly





SE846 @ iBasso DX100






SE846 @ Astell & Kern AK120 with a FiiO E17 in between as "additional damping factor"






SE846 @ Hifiman HM901 with IEM amp board






SE846 @ iBasso DX50






SE846 @ Astell&Kern AK240






If you want translations from the original post where Google translate doesn't make sense, I can try my best to translate.


----------



## FiiO

fe-lixx said:


> Since the BTR3 has now been announced with outstanding support for Bluetooth codecs, will there be an updated version of the Q5, which uses the same Bluetooth chip as the BTR3?



Dear friend,

The Bluetooth chip of the BTR3 is not the same one as Q5. It is CSR8675 instead. 

Best regards


----------



## mikewr

Sorry if this has been asked here before, but what is the difference between the regular AK4490 and the AK4490EN? Anything audible? I was trying to interpret some spec sheets, but they went a little over my head lol.


----------



## earfonia (Jul 28, 2018)

@FiiO sorry if it has been asked or discussed before, Fiio Q5 is draining my phone battery and my Onkyo DP-X1 battery when connected. Is there any way to disable charging from the bottom USB port?
USB port setting is default. Thanks!


----------



## SteveNZ

earfonia said:


> @FiiO sorry if it has been asked or discussed before, Fiio Q5 is draining my phone battery and my Onkyo DP-X1 battery when connected. Is there any way to disable charging from the bottom USB port?
> USB port setting is default. Thanks!



The phone should have an option from the drop down notification that lets you select the USB behavior so you can change it to something other than "charge other device". I don't recall if you need to enable the developer settings to make this available or not though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

mikewr said:


> Sorry if this has been asked here before, but what is the difference between the regular AK4490 and the AK4490EN? Anything audible? I was trying to interpret some spec sheets, but they went a little over my head lol.


Not going to hear a difference in my opinion. Measureable stuff, not audible.


SteveNZ said:


> The phone should have an option from the drop down notification that lets you select the USB behavior so you can change it to something other than "charge other device". I don't recall if you need to enable the developer settings to make this available or not though.


I went through developer options with my LG G6 Oreo Android and I don't see any indication at all of this type of functionality. Where did you hear about this? Do you have it yourself and if so, what phone and Android version? Thanks.


----------



## SteveNZ

Sonic Defender said:


> Not going to hear a difference in my opinion. Measureable stuff, not audible.
> 
> I went through developer options with my LG G6 Oreo Android and I don't see any indication at all of this type of functionality. Where did you hear about this? Do you have it yourself and if so, what phone and Android version? Thanks.


 The option is on my Note 8 running Android 8, pretty sure it was there when it was running 7 though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

SteveNZ said:


> The option is on my Note 8 running Android 8, pretty sure it was there when it was running 7 though.


Can't find it anywhere on my G6. Bummer. Can you look in your developer options and tell me if you find it there, or the switch that makes it available elsewhere? Thanks.


----------



## earfonia

SteveNZ said:


> The phone should have an option from the drop down notification that lets you select the USB behavior so you can change it to something other than "charge other device". I don't recall if you need to enable the developer settings to make this available or not though.



I couldn't find that option on my old Samsung S7 and Onkyo DP-X1.

I don't understand the logic behind the implementation of the 2 USB ports on Q5. To me the way Chord Mojo separate the data and charging port is more make sense.
When we use it as USB DAC with PC or any laptop, we actually don't really need battery as PC USB port usually has enough power to power USB DAC, so battery is not necessary.
We need the battery when we use Q5 with portable device like smartphone, tablet, DAP, or Bluetooth. With those devices we want Q5 to use its own battery so it doesn't drain the smartphone / DAP battery. So the logic with 2 USB ports should be either the following:
A. 1 port for data only (no charging) and the 2nd port for charging only, just like Chord Mojo.
B. 1 port for data only (no charging), and the 2nd port for both data and charging. So when we connect to smartphone or DAP we use the Data only port.

Now with Q5, 1 port for charging only, and the 2nd port for both data and charging. What could be the logic behind this implementation? What kind of application would benefit from it? I definitely cannot use it with my DAP because it drains my DAP battery.
Please enlighten me, thanks!


----------



## chrisba

earfonia said:


> @FiiO sorry if it has been asked or discussed before, Fiio Q5 is draining my phone battery and my Onkyo DP-X1 battery when connected. Is there any way to disable charging from the bottom USB port?
> USB port setting is default. Thanks!



This cable should help, like it did with my S7 and other devices.
https://m.ebay.de/itm/10cm-Right-An...8589fff6a582&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
No need to search for a hidden Android setting on source.


----------



## chrisba

There is also USB-B to B from FiiO named ML06 which should prevent reverse charging.

HTH


----------



## gavinfabl

chrisba said:


> There is also USB-B to B from FiiO named ML06 which should prevent reverse charging.
> 
> HTH



I bought one of these and it's doesn't prevent reverse charging with my Galaxy S9.


----------



## fe-lixx

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The Bluetooth chip of the BTR3 is not the same one as Q5. It is CSR8675 instead.
> 
> Best regards


Yes, I understood that part. 

My question is: Will there be an updated version of the Q5 in the future, which also uses the CSR8675, so it can offer the same range of high quality codecs like the "small" BTR3? The Q5 is a flagship, compared to the BTR3, so it's a bit of a shame that the BTR3 has better Bluetooth Audio than the much more expensive and generally much better DAC/Amp Q5. And if there was an improved "V2" of the Q5, there are other little details that could be improved, like changing the ports from micro-USB to the modern USB-C... Stuff like that.


----------



## FiiO

gavinfabl said:


> I bought one of these and it's doesn't prevent reverse charging with my Galaxy S9.


Dear friend,

You could see the white pulsar light pulsing when the Q5 working as DAC with your phone using the ML06?

Best regards


----------



## earfonia (Jul 30, 2018)

chrisba said:


> There is also USB-B to B from FiiO named ML06 which should prevent reverse charging.
> 
> HTH



Cool thanks! I will try that cable.
So did you observe that your S7 battery is not drained by the DAC? 
Amp meter app (I use both Ampere and 3C Battery Monitor Pro) can show if the battery discharged is increased or not. Thanks!


----------



## chrisba

I already bought this
https://m.ebay.de/itm/10cm-Right-An...8589fff6a582&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
before I got to know ML06, but I can confirm using the first one my S7 is definitely *not* suffering from reverse charging.

Would hope this also applies to FiiO's cables.


----------



## v3kt0r

Guys, I got back to Fiio and I'm so glad I'm back with you! Really, Fiio is becoming one of my favorite Chinese company out there and wish they have a big future. Personally for me this device is the best on the market as price/quality/options. 

Quick question, if Q5 supports aptX but aptX HD, so, is down sampling everything higher to 16/44.1 over Bluetooth, right? Even when you play dsd it converts it to pcm?
Also, is there a way to see what is current sample rate on output. You know, like in Mojo you can recognize it by color. I understand that colors here are only for input identification but only dsd has it's dedicated light.

Fiio, nice job here!


----------



## bahamot

v3kt0r said:


> Guys, I got back to Fiio and I'm so glad I'm back with you! Really, Fiio is becoming one of my favorite Chinese company out there and wish they have a big future. Personally for me this device is the best on the market as price/quality/options.
> 
> Quick question, if Q5 supports aptX but aptX HD, so, is down sampling everything higher to 16/44.1 over Bluetooth, right? Even when you play dsd it converts it to pcm?
> Also, is there a way to see what is current sample rate on output. You know, like in Mojo you can recognize it by color. I understand that colors here are only for input identification but only dsd has it's dedicated light.
> ...


Since Q5 is only BT receiver, it's the player that does all the downsample when playing via BT.


----------



## v3kt0r

Hi Bahamot,

 I thought Q5 does all the calculations. In this case it's pretty acting as a Bluetooth amp only but then you connect it with otg it acts as a dac and amp? That would make sense. 

Also, I pair it with V30 and Neutron. 

Audio Hardware settings that only checked:
Audio focus
Direct usb driver
dop
follow source frequency


----------



## Sonic Defender

So if you are connected to your phone via USB and the white connection light isn't flashing that means that power is being drawn from the phone? I can see from my G6 pull down notifications that USB is in Power Supply mode, and while there are options to change, none of them work. I can change the setting, but once Onkyo HF Player starts again, the setting change wasn't saved and the Power Supply mode is back selected under the USB Connection for menu. The available choices are:
Charging
Just charge this phone

Power supply (always selected)
Charge the connected device

File transfer
Transfer documents and media files to the connected device

Photo transfer
.....

MIDI Device
Record and listen to music from the connected device

Regardless, only the Power supply seems to ever be selected and work


----------



## Sonic Defender

Regardless of the current phone battery drain issue, I love the Q5. Damn does this thing sound nice, plus I can just use Bluetooth if I want to avoid the vampire battery drain scenario.


----------



## bahamot

Sonic Defender said:


> Regardless of the current phone battery drain issue, I love the Q5. Damn does this thing sound nice, plus I can just use Bluetooth if I want to avoid the vampire battery drain scenario.


You need to use USB to go cable that has different pin connection to prevent the charging. AFAIK, FiiO is selling that kind of OTG cable.


----------



## Franklin (Jul 30, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> Regardless of the current phone battery drain issue, I love the Q5. Damn does this thing sound nice, plus I can just use Bluetooth if I want to avoid the vampire battery drain scenario.



Just pick one cable to avoid that as said above. I can confirm the following work great with my g6 and q5 without battery issues:

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/302647699981


----------



## arjubx

Just ordered one of these to get something more powerful than my ES100 for portable use around house/office. Can’t wait!


----------



## sbtourist

Hi everyone,

what is the changelog of the latest firmwares? I'm considering buying the Q5 but I can't upgrade it because I don't have a Windows machine.

Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

sbtourist said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> what is the changelog of the latest firmwares? I'm considering buying the Q5 but I can't upgrade it because I don't have a Windows machine.
> 
> Thanks.


You probably know somebody who does though and the whole update process should take like 15 minutes.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Franklin said:


> Just pick one cable to avoid that as said above. I can confirm the following work great with my g6 and q5 without battery issues:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/302647699981


I might, but truthfully I really don't need to use a cable as I find the Bluetooth sounds just as good. Can I ask you a question about your G6? I notice that in Developer Options no matter what, even with the Q5 my G6 always wants to connect and does as AAC, same with a Bluetooth headphone of mine, it always connects as AAC and it is definitely Apt x as I have connected the headphone to many devices and received the Apt x connectivity confirmation message. My brother was here with his Samsung A7 running Oreo and in developer options it showed that it connected via Apt x when again my G6 connects in AAC. I can switch the codec in developer options, but only when the connection is already active and it makes me wonder if the switch actually happens? If you have developer options enabled on your G6 can you check and see what codec it connects to the Q5 with by default?

My G6 is running Oreo. Thanks.


----------



## sbtourist

Sonic Defender said:


> You probably know somebody who does though and the whole update process should take like 15 minutes.



Believe it or not, everyone I know has got a Mac.


----------



## Franklin

Sonic Defender said:


> I might, but truthfully I really don't need to use a cable as I find the Bluetooth sounds just as good. Can I ask you a question about your G6? I notice that in Developer Options no matter what, even with the Q5 my G6 always wants to connect and does as AAC, same with a Bluetooth headphone of mine...
> 
> My G6 is running Oreo. Thanks.



I use mostly of the time via BT too, and noticed exactly the same. I reported it here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-148#post-14305560

I think it not only a G6 problem, since my Edifier S2000pro speakers connect as APT-X, even working too with AAC. I think Fiio can add an option on q5 fw to define what codec will be use as default when more than one are suported on both ends of connection. But i only suppose that it are possible.... I'm not know enought about BT to be sure.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jul 31, 2018)

Franklin said:


> I use mostly of the time via BT too, and noticed exactly the same. I reported it here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-148#post-14305560
> 
> I think it not only a G6 problem, since my Edifier S2000pro speakers connect as APT-X, even working too with AAC. I think Fiio can add an option on q5 fw to define what codec will be use as default when more than one are suported on both ends of connection. But i only suppose that it are possible.... I'm not know enought about BT to be sure.


I think it is a G6 issue. My guess is that the Qualacomm chip used has trouble negotiating connections Apt x with older Qualacomm chips. My G6 had no problem connecting as Apt x HD with a Bluewave GET headphone amp and with a B&W PX. I'll bet the chip in the Samsung A7 is different than what is used in the G6. It would be nice if this was something that FiiO is able to fix with a firmware update or Bluetooth update. I'm going to see if I can find out what Qualacomm chip is used in the G6.

I'm also not entirely sure if it is just the Qualcomm chip involved or the Bluetooth transmitter/receiver used? I see on gsmarena that the G6 is listed as BT 4.2 with Apt x HD, but no mention of Apt x. I wonder if the Apt x HD is backwards compatible and supports normal Apt x bitrate connections which I'm sure it does. It would be nice if somebody from FiiO could at least tell us what they think is the issue.


----------



## Franklin

Sonic Defender said:


> I think it is a G6 issue. My guess is that the Qualacomm chip used has trouble negotiating connections Apt x with older Qualacomm chips. My G6 had no problem connecting as Apt x HD with a Bluewave GET headphone amp and with a B&W PX. I'll bet the chip in the Samsung A7 is different than what is used in the G6. It would be nice if this was something that FiiO is able to fix with a firmware update or Bluetooth update. I'm going to see if I can find out what Qualacomm chip is used in the G6.
> 
> I'm also not entirely sure if it is just the Qualcomm chip involved or the Bluetooth transmitter/receiver used? I see on gsmarena that the G6 is listed as BT 4.2 with Apt x HD, but no mention of Apt x. I wonder if the Apt x HD is backwards compatible and supports normal Apt x bitrate connections which I'm sure it does. It would be nice if somebody from FiiO could at least tell us what they think is the issue.



Yeah, make absolute sense for me. I hope Fiio just look at this little issue, even to show us what really happen to not connect with apt-x as default. I don't notice any major diff from AAC to Apt-x, though... but will be nice if we can just select the best option for G6. Good luck for us


----------



## SteveNZ

v3kt0r said:


> Hi Bahamot,
> 
> I thought Q5 does all the calculations. In this case it's pretty acting as a Bluetooth amp only but then you connect it with otg it acts as a dac and amp? That would make sense.
> 
> ...





sbtourist said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> what is the changelog of the latest firmwares? I'm considering buying the Q5 but I can't upgrade it because I don't have a Windows machine.
> 
> Thanks.


I do find it odd that a device primarily aimed at iOS devices requires Windows to update. 

I really would like Fiio to include changelogs with the updates, especially if there's any sort of feature change.


----------



## showme99

SteveNZ said:


> I do find it odd that a device primarily aimed at iOS devices requires Windows to update.


I agree. That makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## FiiO

sbtourist said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> what is the changelog of the latest firmwares? I'm considering buying the Q5 but I can't upgrade it because I don't have a Windows machine.
> 
> Thanks.


The improvement in 0.52:

1. Fixed the issue where the "Sharp Roll-Off Filter" and the "Short delay Sharp Roll-Off Filter" settings were reversed;
2. Fixed the issue where the device would not charge when the Side USB port was set as data port. 

Best regards


----------



## EzequielFriscia (Aug 2, 2018)

Guys, can you clear me some thoughts about this?

Leaving accessories, extras and all the bells and whistles aside, just talking about SQ, how much improvement is a Q5 over a Q1 MK2? I plan to use it just with a FH5 for now. I dont think driving big ones.

Thanks!


----------



## Sonic Defender

EzequielFriscia said:


> Guys, can you clear me some thoughts about this?
> 
> Leaving accessories, extras and all the bells and whistles aside, just talking about SQ, how much improvement is a Q5 over a Q1 MK2? I plan to use it just with a FH5 for now. I dont think driving big ones.
> 
> Thanks!


Always, IMO, get the device with the better forward compatibility/features as you don't know what you may want a year from now. That only matters if you can afford the difference in price easily. If the price differential isn't an issue for you, seriously, get the Q5 it is pretty darn nice.


----------



## EzequielFriscia

Sonic Defender said:


> Always, IMO, get the device with the better forward compatibility/features as you don't know what you may want a year from now. That only matters if you can afford the difference in price easily. If the price differential isn't an issue for you, seriously, get the Q5 it is pretty darn nice.



Thanks really much !

Running low with cash, but I got the Q1 and was thinking about returning and getting the Q5 if theres a significant SQ difference. 
Two things that I like and I dont about the Q5: You can use it and charge at the same time when using it in mobile devices / Connectors are not gold plated.


----------



## Sonic Defender

EzequielFriscia said:


> Thanks really much !
> 
> Running low with cash, but I got the Q1 and was thinking about returning and getting the Q5 if theres a significant SQ difference.
> Two things that I like and I dont about the Q5: You can use it and charge at the same time when using it in mobile devices / Connectors are not gold plated.


Can't say the connectors really worries me, so I can't offer good feedback on whether or not that is a significant issue. One thing that I have learned over the years, and many other very experienced head-fi members have also experienced is the expensive price of purchasing something and then realizing that you really wanted the device up from it. You then sell your original device at a loss and end up getting the other device anyway. Sometimes that is fine, and I'm not an advocate of the more expensive device is always better. Just be sure that the features you purchase really do satisfy your current needs well, and ideally leave you some flexibility if your needs change. What happens if you decide that you want to drive more demanding headphones than you do now? Would the ability to roll amplifier modules then feel like a good investment? Only you can know the answer, don't overspend, but sometimes under-spending is just as bad and possibly worse. Good luck however you decide to go and let us know what your decision is and what you think of it. Cheers.


----------



## EzequielFriscia (Aug 3, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> Can't say the connectors really worries me, so I can't offer good feedback on whether or not that is a significant issue. One thing that I have learned over the years, and many other very experienced head-fi members have also experienced is the expensive price of purchasing something and then realizing that you really wanted the device up from it. You then sell your original device at a loss and end up getting the other device anyway. Sometimes that is fine, and I'm not an advocate of the more expensive device is always better. Just be sure that the features you purchase really do satisfy your current needs well, and ideally leave you some flexibility if your needs change. What happens if you decide that you want to drive more demanding headphones than you do now? Would the ability to roll amplifier modules then feel like a good investment? Only you can know the answer, don't overspend, but sometimes under-spending is just as bad and possibly worse. Good luck however you decide to go and let us know what your decision is and what you think of it. Cheers.



Thanks so much for such complete answer.
My dislike about the Q5 was merely subjective, but now that you say it even I think it matches the cold/aluminum aesthetic being not gold plated.

I’ll try tomorrow the FH5 when they arrive and I’ll take a desicion over the weekend.


----------



## Trainsauce

EzequielFriscia said:


> Thanks really much !
> 
> Running low with cash, but I got the Q1 and was thinking about returning and getting the Q5 if theres a significant SQ difference.
> Two things that I like and I dont about the Q5: You can use it and charge at the same time when using it in mobile devices / Connectors are not gold plated.



I needed something portable and picked up the q1 MK2. Couple weeks later I bought the Q5 for the Bluetooth functionality primarily. I found that at moderate volume the Q5 is noticeably more articulate across the spectrum.  The bass boost also feels a touch more refined or organic if that makes sense, with the Q5.  I am using the 4.4mm am3b amp module now, and found little difference in performance between that and the 2.5mm am3a balanced out.


----------



## EzequielFriscia (Aug 3, 2018)

demond said:


> DAC：AK4490EN×2
> 
> There are two USB interfaces. You don't have to connect all to use it,
> Q5 Working current is about 370mAh, When the USB interface is plugged into the computer can be charged at the same time. Computer USB interface power supply is not stable, some current smaller, while others can reach 1A.





bflat said:


> Few more practical tips:
> 
> DSD via DoP only works for USB input.
> In order to play and charge, you need a charger capable of 2A or more. I tried 1A and the Q5 could not charge faster than consuming.
> Other than the charging issues noted for iOS and Android I haven't come across any other problems.



I dont understand this, some people says that will drain while playing and others dont.
Most of the time ill be playing DSD 2.8 / 5.6 and FLAC 24/192.

Currently my port using a USB 2.0 device will charge between 511mAh - 968mAh depending on the usage (Those results corresponds to an iPad 9.7 at 100% Brightness and 20% respectively).
Will this be enough or im gonna be using the battery?

To round up I'm still wondering if the Q5 will match my FH5 and about the SQ still dont have a clue.


----------



## bflat (Aug 3, 2018)

EzequielFriscia said:


> I dont understand this, some people says that will drain while playing and others dont.
> Most of the time ill be playing DSD 2.8 / 5.6 and FLAC 24/192.
> 
> Currently my port using a USB 2.0 device will charge between 511mAh - 968mAh depending on the usage (Those results corresponds to an iPad 9.7 at 100% Brightness and 20% respectively).
> ...



Short answer - manual clearly states "recommend to use 5V 2A charger." My experience confirms this.

Long answer - There are several variables in play on whether your particular setup will be able to play+ charge infinitely. I just did a simple test - left the Q5 plugged into an Apple iPhone charger which specs at 5W max (5V, 1A) playing all day. Sometime around 20+ hrs, it turned off. I repeated this twice. Swapped charger to a 12W model and Q5 ran for 4 days and battery was 100% when I manually turned it off. I was burning in during this time so connected the Q5 output to a 10K load and volume was at 80% max. Music tracks were an equal mix of 44/16, 96/24, and 192/24 ALAC in random loops.


----------



## earfonia

chrisba said:


> This cable should help, like it did with my S7 and other devices.
> https://m.ebay.de/itm/10cm-Right-Angle-Micro-USB-B-to-Micro-USB-B-at-both-ends-Host-OTG-Adapter-Cable/301228419677?ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/707-53477-19255-0/1?type=4&campId=5338093425&toolId=10001&customId=jk7awj7fne01zlp1007hu&mpre=https://www.ebay.de/itm/301228419677&srcrot=707-53477-19255-0&rvr_id=1614447048825&rvr_ts=e7bdf8fd1640ad4b52e68589fff6a582&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
> No need to search for a hidden Android setting on source.



I actually have the short OTG micro B cable for my Mojo, and it works well for Q5. I did a test comparing 2 different USB cables for connecting Android smartphone to Q5, and it proves that using the right cable will reduce the smartphone battery draining cause by Q5 battery charging.
Here is the test:


----------



## EzequielFriscia (Aug 5, 2018)

I ordered my Q5 ! Should receive it Tuesday / Wednesday.

Regarding SQ, any thoughts about the AM3A vs AM3B module? Some people says theres no difference, others that the AM3B its deeper and warmer.

If I get it, I'd be using it with the BL44 adapter, doesnt this one breaks the purpose of whatever aftermarket cable you chose in the past, or is it rather transparent as they claim?

Thanks !


----------



## Dobrescu George

EzequielFriscia said:


> I ordered my Q5 ! Should receive it Tuesday / Wednesday.
> 
> Regarding SQ, any thoughts about the AM3A vs AM3B module? Some people says theres no difference, others that the AM3B its deeper and warmer.
> 
> ...



AM3B is considerably warmer and bassier than AM3A. The adapter is very good, no worries about it.

If you prefer a warm , heavy , thick bottom end, then AM3B is a really good AMP module. It doesn't take away much sparkle from the treble, which is nice, but it is pretty darn warm.


----------



## EzequielFriscia

Dobrescu George said:


> AM3B is considerably warmer and bassier than AM3A. The adapter is very good, no worries about it.
> 
> If you prefer a warm , heavy , thick bottom end, then AM3B is a really good AMP module. It doesn't take away much sparkle from the treble, which is nice, but it is pretty darn warm.



Thanks so so much! 
Tomorrow ill test the Q5 and I will try to imagine how it would be in comparison.


----------



## Sonic Defender

EzequielFriscia said:


> Thanks so so much!
> Tomorrow ill test the Q5 and I will try to imagine how it would be in comparison.


Great to hear you opted to try the Q5. I can't imagine that you'll regret that decision. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Sonic Defender

arjubx said:


> Just ordered one of these to get something more powerful than my ES100 for portable use around house/office. Can’t wait!


Be sure to post your impressions here after you receive the Q5. I simply love the combination of Q5 with my Pioneer SE Monitor 5 driven via the balanced out of the AM3A module. The results are so good that while I want to try another amp module I hesitate as the AM3A seems to be driving the Pioneer so darn well so not sure what would improve? I wonder if there is another amp module with a different enough sound signature that also features great channel separation?


----------



## EzequielFriscia

Dobrescu George said:


> AM3B is considerably warmer and bassier than AM3A. The adapter is very good, no worries about it.
> 
> If you prefer a warm , heavy , thick bottom end, then AM3B is a really good AMP module. It doesn't take away much sparkle from the treble, which is nice, but it is pretty darn warm.



From your review, I feel that the AM3A its closer to my general taste, although I dont know if the warmthness you do describe relating to the AM3B its the enough quantity, lets say like "vinyl sound" or goes beyond that mark?



Sonic Defender said:


> Great to hear you opted to try the Q5. I can't imagine that you'll regret that decision. Look forward to your impressions.



You got it  

Really, thanks everyone who helped me out here clearing my doubts and answering my questions, couldn't be happier about that.


----------



## Dobrescu George

EzequielFriscia said:


> From your review, I feel that the AM3A its closer to my general taste, although I dont know if the warmthness you do describe relating to the AM3B its the enough quantity, lets say like "vinyl sound" or goes beyond that mark?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For being closer to a Vinyl sound, AM3B, for being closer to a live experience, AM3A  

The idea is that in most cases, live concerts are not as warm toned as a vinyl typically is, AM3A works better for getting that live excitement a live concert has, while AM3B is better for getting that warmth and thickness a vinyl tipically has


----------



## bakanecko

it is just me or anyone else found LG G6 bluetooth implementation is downgrading image quality when paired to q5? it sound peaky and edgy in the SE and sound hot and less body in the balanced output. But when i switched to other devices, like ipod, sony A-25 and A-30, laptop (cable) the Q5 sound super fabulous. I used akg n40 for this test.


----------



## Sonic Defender

You may want to enable developer options and go and see what codec is being used to connect by default. It is possible that it is connecting with SBC which may explain what you are hearing. Not sure, but believe me, you need to check. This assumes that you have Oreo.


----------



## tim0chan

bakanecko said:


> it is just me or anyone else found LG G6 bluetooth implementation is downgrading image quality when paired to q5? it sound peaky and edgy in the SE and sound hot and less body in the balanced output. But when i switched to other devices, like ipod, sony A-25 and A-30, laptop (cable) the Q5 sound super fabulous. I used akg n40 for this test.


Didnt have that issue with my g6 running aptx


----------



## Dobrescu George

bakanecko said:


> it is just me or anyone else found LG G6 bluetooth implementation is downgrading image quality when paired to q5? it sound peaky and edgy in the SE and sound hot and less body in the balanced output. But when i switched to other devices, like ipod, sony A-25 and A-30, laptop (cable) the Q5 sound super fabulous. I used akg n40 for this test.



Yes, something like an inferior codec is being used, this explains what you're hearing


----------



## Sonic Defender

tim0chan said:


> Didnt have that issue with my g6 running aptx


Are you sure? How do you know that it is connecting via aptX? My Q5 and G6 can only connect by AAC and it is the G6 at fault.


----------



## gto88

Picked up Q5 on Ebay today with 15% off coupon.
Need to catch up all the posts I missed.


----------



## SteveNZ

Took delivery of a Q5 this morning, went through the firmware upgrade rigmarole (no real issues). Seems like a nice device, haven't tried the USB input as yet, bluetooth output seems ok but lacking depth at lower volumes, may just need to experiment with levels at each end. Only running it into my old HD280's at the moment, will try it with the PM-3's when I get home. Have ordered the mUSB -> USB-C cable so i can give it a decent go over USB. Good to see it's reporting Apt-X connection on the Note 8.


----------



## bahamot

@FiiO, any plan to make 4.4mm discrete amp module for Q5/X7?


----------



## Brooko

bahamot said:


> @FiiO, any plan to make 4.4mm discrete amp module for Q5/X7?



AM3B - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bask-in-the-beauty-of-4-4mm-balanced-with-fiio-am3b-and-bl44.877132/

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/73#AM3B


----------



## bahamot

Brooko said:


> AM3B - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bask-in-the-beauty-of-4-4mm-balanced-with-fiio-am3b-and-bl44.877132/
> 
> http://www.fiio.net/en/products/73#AM3B


Already got AM3B. But it's opamp based design, not discrete amp design.


----------



## tim0chan

Sonic Defender said:


> Are you sure? How do you know that it is connecting via aptX? My Q5 and G6 can only connect by AAC and it is the G6 at fault.


Developer options


----------



## SteveNZ

FWIW - I tried hooking my Note 8 to the Q5 using a mUSB-->USB-C cable that I had laying around and it definitely defaults to "Phone charges external device". Any attempt to change the charging mode causes the devices to disconnect, so just selecting "device charges phone" or "file system" won't work, it looks like it definitely is necessary to purchase the appropriate cable in order to stop the phone battery being rapidly depleted when connected via USB.

It's occurred to me to try switching the USB ports on the Q5 and see if the behaviour is consistant when hooked up to the side port, but as the Q5 doesn't support being used as a portable battery pack, I don't see why it'd behave differently.


----------



## FiiO

SteveNZ said:


> FWIW - I tried hooking my Note 8 to the Q5 using a mUSB-->USB-C cable that I had laying around and it definitely defaults to "Phone charges external device". Any attempt to change the charging mode causes the devices to disconnect, so just selecting "device charges phone" or "file system" won't work, it looks like it definitely is necessary to purchase the appropriate cable in order to stop the phone battery being rapidly depleted when connected via USB.
> 
> It's occurred to me to try switching the USB ports on the Q5 and see if the behaviour is consistant when hooked up to the side port, but as the Q5 doesn't support being used as a portable battery pack, I don't see why it'd behave differently.


Dear friend,

The issue you mentioned would happen as well after switching the usb ports using the FiiO Music?
You may try our CL06 for help instead.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

tim0chan said:


> Developer options


So when I go to developer options after the Q5 has connected with my phone the codec that always is shown being used is AAC. I can then select aptX, but I doubt it uses that codec as the connection has been made. Are you saying that the default codec your G6 connects to the Q5, without any selecting on your part is aptX? If so, would you mind telling me what version and build of Oreo you have? I can't imagine what would be different with my G6 unless you are somewhere in Europe or Asia for instance where maybe there could be a hardware difference? As far as I can tell my G6 running Oreo can't go from aptX HD to just aptX, it can't seem to make the change so it then establishes an AAC connection. My G6 also does this with an aptX enabled headphone, but when I had a B&W PX headphone, it connected with aptX HD no problem and the same when it connected to a Bluewave Get headphone amp. Rather annoying.


----------



## howdy

Really thinking of buying this for my 128gb ipod touch6th gen, with all Tidal HiFi. Seems like the perfect combo!


----------



## Sonic Defender

howdy said:


> Really thinking of buying this for my 128gb ipod touch6th gen, with all Tidal HiFi. Seems like the perfect combo!


Wouldn't a smartphone be a better choice over an iPod? I'm curious why you would opt to use an iPod instead as ultimately it is just a transport right? I'm sure you have your reasons, I'm just curious is all.


----------



## howdy

Sonic Defender said:


> Wouldn't a smartphone be a better choice over an iPod? I'm curious why you would opt to use an iPod instead as ultimately it is just a transport right? I'm sure you have your reasons, I'm just curious is all.


I try to use my phone as a phone and sometimes with my Bluetooth headphones. The ipod would be kept with the Q5 as a rig.


----------



## Sonic Defender

howdy said:


> I try to use my phone as a phone and sometimes with my Bluetooth headphones. The ipod would be kept with the Q5 as a rig.


Gotcha, makes sense.


----------



## gto88

Got my Q5 today.
Connected to PC windows 10, download and install USB driver.
Run foobar2000, play dsd file, dsd light is on.
Everything is smooth no issue at all.
Will try bluetooth later,
So far, with Z1R, it sounds good - really good.


----------



## gto88

One question, after installed USB driver, the audio format can only be selected up to 32bit, 192K..
However, before that it shows up to 32bit, 384k.  Is it driver issue?


----------



## Bleether

So I’ve had my Q5 for a little over a month now, and I am so annoyed by their indicator lights. They are completely useless when using outdoors because it’s so dim that you can’t tell if it’s on or off. I didn’t think such a minor thing would be an issue but it really is when I use it outdoors a lot. So frustrating that this thing was near perfect for me.


----------



## howdy

Bleether said:


> So I’ve had my Q5 for a little over a month now, and I am so annoyed by their indicator lights. They are completely useless when using outdoors because it’s so dim that you can’t tell if it’s on or off. I didn’t think such a minor thing would be an issue but it really is when I use it outdoors a lot. So frustrating that this thing was near perfect for me.


Well, if it bothers you enough to sell, look me up!


----------



## Sonic Defender

Bleether said:


> So I’ve had my Q5 for a little over a month now, and I am so annoyed by their indicator lights. They are completely useless when using outdoors because it’s so dim that you can’t tell if it’s on or off. I didn’t think such a minor thing would be an issue but it really is when I use it outdoors a lot. So frustrating that this thing was near perfect for me.


Yes, that has been my only legitimate complaint as well. As you say, outdoors in sunlight it is impossible to see the indicator lights. That said, I'm sure given that the Q5 is likely to be used indoors quite a bit more than outdoors (educated guess there) that FiiO went with common feedback that people dislike bright lights as it ruins the ambience when used to chill with tunes in the dark.


----------



## McCol

Got the Q5 yesterday and I am very impressed by it's functions as well as sound quality. 

It has left me a bit of a dilemma though.  My DX200 is overall possibly marginally superior in SQ but not by a great deal.  I'd consider selling the DX200 but my source would then be my iphone X and I would be limited by memory.  Not sure whether to consider a small player like the Shanlin M0 as a transport.


----------



## gto88

Tried Q5 optical input, works like a charm.
Bluetooth pairing and streaming is also smooth.
The main reason I chose Q5 over xDSD is its versatility and flexibility.
Besides, it uses AKM dac chip that I had not owned before.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Bleether said:


> So I’ve had my Q5 for a little over a month now, and I am so annoyed by their indicator lights. They are completely useless when using outdoors because it’s so dim that you can’t tell if it’s on or off. I didn’t think such a minor thing would be an issue but it really is when I use it outdoors a lot. So frustrating that this thing was near perfect for me.


If you use Bluetooth just press 3 seconds the on/off button, then 3 seconds the BT button. That's it. Than you can look in your phone notification bar for the BT connected icon. Or if you shade the light with your palm you'll see it.
This was discussed before, and it would be ok for the status light intensity to be user selectable, but not always brighter because then it would be much too bright and annoying indoors / in the dark. So I would prefer the current level.


----------



## Bleether

Yeah I know, but it would be nice to just be able to pull the q5 out of my pocket and know if the thing ran out of power without having to go through the extra effort of getting off my bike and use both my hands to shade the thing. I don’t even feel like this is nitpicking. I think they should consider that people will be using this outdoors considering it’s a portable amp.


----------



## gto88

Exploring Q5 as DAC, to AMP it has only 3.5mm standard line out.
Since Q5 has two DAC, it should be able to do a balanced line out.
It is a pity that it cannot be used as balanced DAC.

Is there any way to make use it through 2.5mm balanced headphone output to dual XLR?
Or may be a new AMP module with balanced line out - @FiiO ?


----------



## FiiO

gto88 said:


> Exploring Q5 as DAC, to AMP it has only 3.5mm standard line out.
> Since Q5 has two DAC, it should be able to do a balanced line out.
> It is a pity that it cannot be used as balanced DAC.
> 
> ...


You could find whether there are store for helping to diy the certain cable you need.
We don't have the plan about a new AMP with balanced line out currently.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

Would a dual DAC output really make an audible difference? I'm also not aware if there are any such small footprint devices similar to the Q5 doing this. Are there any hand held, true portable devices with interchangeable amplifier modules and Bluetooth that also provide dual DAC output?


----------



## bahamot (Aug 16, 2018)

Tonight I found out that I actually prefer Q5 running single ended through AM3B. 

To me, it has the same SQ as through 4.4mm balanced, with added bonuses:
- has lower noise level (my IEM is iBasso IT01 and IT04).
- has more precise volume control (due to lower gain) .


----------



## snellemin

gto88 said:


> Exploring Q5 as DAC, to AMP it has only 3.5mm standard line out.
> Since Q5 has two DAC, it should be able to do a balanced line out.
> It is a pity that it cannot be used as balanced DAC.
> 
> ...



You can use the K5 dock to get your XLR out.


----------



## gto88

But K5 seems not for Q5.
I'll check it.


----------



## snellemin

gto88 said:


> But K5 seems not for Q5.
> I'll check it.


----------



## howdy

Just bought this, can't wait to test it out!


----------



## gto88

snellemin said:


>


Got you, a picture said it all. Thanks.


----------



## earfonia (Aug 17, 2018)

gto88 said:


> Exploring Q5 as DAC, to AMP it has only 3.5mm standard line out.
> Since Q5 has two DAC, it should be able to do a balanced line out.
> It is a pity that it cannot be used as balanced DAC.
> 
> ...


.
Sure you can, but you need to DIY the cable. Generally XLR balance will work without ground connection, so just connect the L+ to pin 2, and L- to pin 3 of the Left XLR. Likewise for the Right channel. If you need ground, take the ground from the 3.5mm output. I actually made one of that kind of cable for my measurement. The 2.5mm output can be used for connection to balanced XLR.


----------



## gto88

earfonia said:


> .
> Sure you can, but you need to DIY the cable. Generally XLR balance will work without ground connection, so just connect the L+ to pin 2, and L- to pin 3 of the Left XLR. Likewise for the Right channel. If you need ground, take the ground from the 3.5mm output. I actually made one of that kind of cable for my measurement. The 2.5mm output can be used for connection to balanced XLR.


Thanks for confirming the idea.
I actually found some 2.5mm balance  to dual 3-pin XLR cable on EBay.
Might get one to try it.


----------



## snellemin

The "balanced" output on the Q5 is not the same as what the Pro Balanced signal is.  Just keep that in mind.  The XLR for example has a Negative, Positive and Ground signal.  The headphone output just has 1 signal and ground connection.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Brooko said:


> My review of the Q5 is now up - https://www.headphone-earphone.revi...5-flagship-blue-tooth-dac-amp-a-game-changer/



Hi @Brooko 

In your review you mention, "[on single-ended output] HD600 sounded pretty good – although on my full sized amps (volume matched comparisons) there did seem to be subjectively a little more bass output where the Q5 was slightly anaemic."

When you moved to the balanced output, was the Q5 able to push the HD 600 to their full potential?

I'm considering a Schiit Stack (Modi 2 + Magni 3) to power my HD 600, but would be much happier to simply use the Fiio Q5 if it'll power them just as good as the Schiit Stack.

Note: I listen at relatively low volumes, so volume won't be an issue with the Q5.


----------



## Grayven

TheEldestBoy said:


> Hi @Brooko
> 
> In your review you mention, "[on single-ended output] HD600 sounded pretty good – although on my full sized amps (volume matched comparisons) there did seem to be subjectively a little more bass output where the Q5 was slightly anaemic."
> 
> ...


i have a Mimby and a Magni2u and i actually prefer the Q5. add in the portability and ease of switching to bluetooth...
also, i have been just plugging my Q5 into my MCTH even with bluetooth and it sounds great.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Grayven said:


> i have a Mimby and a Magni2u and i actually prefer the Q5. add in the portability and ease of switching to bluetooth...
> also, i have been just plugging my Q5 into my MCTH even with bluetooth and it sounds great.



@Grayven 

What headphones are you driving?

I'm debating b/w Q5 and Mimby/Magni3 to drive mt HD600's.


----------



## Grayven

TheEldestBoy said:


> @Grayven
> 
> What headphones are you driving?
> 
> I'm debating b/w Q5 and Mimby/Magni3 to drive mt HD600's.


I usually use my ZMF Atticus, but i use my Blackwood too, and that thing takes some juice.


----------



## Brooko

TheEldestBoy said:


> Hi @Brooko
> 
> In your review you mention, "[on single-ended output] HD600 sounded pretty good – although on my full sized amps (volume matched comparisons) there did seem to be subjectively a little more bass output where the Q5 was slightly anaemic."
> 
> ...



I couldn't try it with the HD600 as I didn't have a balanced cable.  I do have one for my HD800S - and yes for a portable device, I don't think the HD800S is being under-driven using the balanced output. I now have the AM3B as well as a cable for the HD600/660S.  Subjectively the balanced output sounds fuller and richer (higher voltage and overall power output is what I think is the difference).  Remember both examples are sighted comparisons and subjective.  But I have volume matched.

So take anything I say in this sense as being subjective rather than objective.  I can't quickly swap and because of the time factor - even trying blind is not going to help a higher level of objectivity.


----------



## McCol

A question on output power and Ohm ratings for those in the know!

I thought I had a little knowledge on these things but I'm not so sure now.  I've recently bought a pair of earbuds with an Ohm rating of 500Ohm.  I thought my Q5 might struggle with them based on the power ratings quoted for recommend headphones - 16-150 or 16-300.  However using them with the 3.5mm connection I am able to drive them easily at around 1/2 max volume.  Whereas my Ibasso DX200 with default amp requires me to use volume at 130/150.  The maker of the buds says they are just easy to drive despite them being 500ohms but's confusing me, can anybody explain for me please?


----------



## shinvicius

if possible make de dac/amp not shutdown automatically, especially when using DAC/AMP mode on PC, or at least make this an option.


----------



## howdy

@FiiO 

Do you plan on making a case for the ipod touch/Q5 like you do for iPhone/Q5?


----------



## Bibo

shinvicius said:


> if possible make de dac/amp not shutdown automatically, especially when using DAC/AMP mode on PC, or at least make this an option.



Setting the timeout  value to zero via FiiO Music App does the trick.


----------



## shinvicius

Bibo said:


> Setting the timeout  value to zero via FiiO Music App does the trick.



Cant find this option, in the off timer i cant put zero. And other thing is that I use with windows 10 and no with my iphone.


----------



## Bibo

If you connect the Q5 to your Iphone via Bluetooth the option will be there:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-110#post-14144821


----------



## shinvicius

Bibo said:


> If you connect the Q5 to your Iphone via Bluetooth the option will be there:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-110#post-14144821


Thank you.


----------



## howdy

I'm having issues getting this to connect to BT. Once you have your headphones is pairing mode then the Q5 how do you pick it or what do you do next?


----------



## gto88

howdy said:


> I'm having issues getting this to connect to BT. Once you have your headphones is pairing mode then the Q5 how do you pick it or what do you do next?


I don't think you can connect Q5 to headphone with Bluetooth.
It is not what Q5 for.


----------



## howdy

gto88 said:


> I don't think you can connect Q5 to headphone with Bluetooth.
> It is not what Q5 for.


That's like one of its main selling points is BT. And it has the pairing mode.


----------



## gto88

Yes, but it to connect to source (player with bluetooth transmitter mode) or cellphone to play music
and send to Q5.
Q5 has only bluetooth receiving not transmitting.


----------



## howdy

gto88 said:


> Yes, but it to connect to source (player with bluetooth transmitter mode) or cellphone to play music
> and send to Q5.
> Q5 has only bluetooth receiving not transmitting.


Does it send music from my ipod touch to the q5 via cable then to my BT headphones. In totally confused on what this does now.


----------



## gto88

No.
Q5 can receive music from ipod touch (if it has bluetooth) through bluetooth, and
your headphone has to connect with cable on Q5 to listen music.
I was hoping to have function as you seek right now, but Q5 cannot do that unfortunately.


----------



## Sonic Defender

howdy said:


> Does it send music from my ipod touch to the q5 via cable then to my BT headphones. In totally confused on what this does now.


It does not send a signal, it receives a BT signal.


----------



## Dobrescu George

howdy said:


> Does it send music from my ipod touch to the q5 via cable then to my BT headphones. In totally confused on what this does now.



There is a much much less expensive FiiO product which can do this, uBT, along with BT3 I think it was named (?)


----------



## howdy

Will it ever be able to? This was the main reason for buying this.


----------



## gto88

howdy said:


> Will it ever be able to? This was the main reason for buying this.


I am not sure if it is possible with its bluetooth chip.
But, I know shanling M0 can do that and it is much cheaper.


----------



## howdy

gto88 said:


> I am not sure if it is possible with its bluetooth chip.
> But, I know shanling M0 can do that and it is much cheaper.


I just got this an hour ago and already don't want it anymore.


----------



## gto88

You may want to explore other devices for the function you want.
I almost chose Shanling M0 for its feature and price, but I ended up got Q5.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Aug 20, 2018)

howdy said:


> I just got this an hour ago and already don't want it anymore.


That is a shame, it is a brilliant device. I get that you are disappointed, but nowhere did FiiO or any review I have ever read remotely suggest that it did transmission. In fact, FiiO clearly stated in this thread that it didn't do Bluetooth transmission. Hopefully if you require that functionality you can return it and get something else. Given that the Q5 doesn't have storage, why would you want it as a Bluetooth transmitter anyway? Wouldn't you simply go from say your source to the headphone in question and skip a middle device?

If your source is say a laptop or desktop that lacks Bluetooth there are several USB dongle options out there that add great Bluetooth capability, but you probably already know that. Cheers.


----------



## Currawong

If you have Bluetooth headphones, you don't need something like the Q5. Bluetooth headphones have all that functionality built in to them.



Bleether said:


> Yeah I know, but it would be nice to just be able to pull the q5 out of my pocket and know if the thing ran out of power without having to go through the extra effort of getting off my bike and use both my hands to shade the thing. I don’t even feel like this is nitpicking. I think they should consider that people will be using this outdoors considering it’s a portable amp.



The problem is, the difference between the amount of light indoors and out is staggeringly greater than we imagine. Our eyes and brain compensate so smoothly we don't notice this. If I look at my desk and out the window now, the difference in brightness doesn't seem to be so great, but if I take a photo of my desk, the window will be entirely whited out. If I take a picture of the window, the desk will be very dark. 

If FiiO put a mega-bright LED on the Q5, it might be visible outdoors, but inside, in the evening, it would light up the room (like the camera light on a phone) and someone else would be annoyed!


----------



## howdy

Sonic Defender said:


> That is a shame, it is a brilliant device. I get that you are disappointed, but nowhere did FiiO or any review I have ever read remotely suggest that it did transmission. In fact, FiiO clearly stated in this thread that it didn't do Bluetooth transmission. Hopefully if you require that functionality you can return it and get something else. Given that the Q5 doesn't have storage, why would you want it as a Bluetooth transmitter anyway? Wouldn't you simply go from say your source to the headphone in question and skip a middle device?
> 
> If your source is say a laptop or desktop that lacks Bluetooth there are several USB dongle options out there that add great Bluetooth capability, but you probably already know that. Cheers.


You are correct. I blame no one but my laziness on not checking. It still is a great device which I should have mentioned. I thought it did both directions and had balanced, I thought to myself this is great all I need in one device. I may keep it or return for a R6.


----------



## Sonic Defender

howdy said:


> You are correct. I blame no one but my laziness on not checking. It still is a great device which I should have mentioned. I thought it did both directions and had balanced, I thought to myself this is great all I need in one device. I may keep it or return for a R6.


No worries, and really I hope that you find the right device for your needs. Cheers.


----------



## gto88

Just dig in Qualcomm csr8670 spec sheet, the chip is capable of both tx &  rx and Is also a mcu chip.
Which means, if fiio upgrade their bluetooth firmware, it can support transmitting to Bluetooth headphone.
Am I right @FiiO ?


----------



## Brooko

gto88 said:


> Just dig in Qualcomm csr8670 spec sheet, the chip is capable of both tx &  rx and Is also a mcu chip.
> Which means, if fiio upgrade their bluetooth firmware, it can support transmitting to Bluetooth headphone.
> Am I right @FiiO ?


But what would be the point?  If you used it transmitting to a headphone, then you aren't using the HQ DAC on the Q5.  You may as well go straight from your phone to the headphones .....


----------



## Sonic Defender

Brooko said:


> But what would be the point?  If you used it transmitting to a headphone, then you aren't using the HQ DAC on the Q5.  You may as well go straight from your phone to the headphones .....


Exactly, I don't see where you would benefit unless the Q5 also held files, but then you would have the X7II instead.


----------



## howdy

My initial use was to have something with all the codecs and not use my phone as a source.


----------



## gto88

Sonic Defender said:


> Exactly, I don't see where you would benefit unless the Q5 also held files, but then you would have the X7II instead.


Just to extend the feature when you connect Q5 to computer and have mobility to move around with headphone.


----------



## Sonic Defender

gto88 said:


> Just to extend the feature when you connect Q5 to computer and have mobility to move around with headphone.


I get that, but at that point you are bypassing all of the processing of the Q5 and allowing the headphone to do that so while you can ask the Q5 to pass the digital signal onward to the headphone, all we are saying is that you might as well let a transport device do that. Still, I get the point that it could be done. As I said, I would just add a USB Bluetooth dongle to the device or use my smartphone, but yes, it might have some utility with a Q5, albeit limited.


----------



## Sonic Defender

howdy said:


> My initial use was to have something with all the codecs and not use my phone as a source.


Fair enough, but soon the vast majority of decent smartphones will cover all of the codecs anyway and offer great storage capability. Saying that there would be no harm in having the Q5 perform as a transmitter and I'm not sure what if any technical issues it would have made for FiiO. The fact that FiiO didn't implement this feature makes me curious if there are indeed technical reasons they opted to not include Bluetooth transmission capability with the Q5. I'm sure a FiiO representative will weigh in on the matter.


----------



## snellemin

This morning I reterminated some Mogami wires with Canare 3.5 TRS for giggles to use with the Q5.  Anyways, I've been using the Q5 with the K5 with a big smile on my face.  It sounds so good with my headphones.  But I thought to myself....Why not try out the balanced output from the K5 to my old Ibasso PB2.  The PB2 has true balance input.  OH man, the sound coming from the PB2 is way nicer then coming from the K5.  The IBasso has way more lowend and better sound stage, when playing DSD.  Now I'm wishing for Fiio to come out with another amp module for true balance output to use on pro audio equipment.  This way I don't have to use the K5 as the middle man.

I did use the output of the 4.4mm TRRS from the AM3B to the "balanced" input of the Ray Samuels Intruder, with a bigger grin on my face.  This is a great combo as well.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Fiio Q5 + Fiio K5  *versus*  Schiit stack (Modi mMultibit + Magni 3)?

This is for my HD 600's.

I'm not interested in which pushes more volume (I listen at relatively low/moderate volumes, so either will be way more than sufficient for me).  Nor do I need a comparison of each set-up's features.

I simply want to know which might sound better.  Would both set-ups do a very good job of powering the HD600 sufficiently?


----------



## showme99 (Aug 21, 2018)

howdy said:


> You are correct. I blame no one but my laziness on not checking. It still is a great device which I should have mentioned. I thought it did both directions and had balanced, I thought to myself this is great all I need in one device. I may keep it or return for a R6.


Does your iPod touch have Bluetooth? If so, simply pair your iPod with your Bluetooth headphones and you're all set.  You don't even need the Q5 in this scenario.


----------



## Dobrescu George

howdy said:


> Will it ever be able to? This was the main reason for buying this.



I don't think so, sorry... 



howdy said:


> I just got this an hour ago and already don't want it anymore.



Try to play more with it, see what the sonic quality is all about  



howdy said:


> My initial use was to have something with all the codecs and not use my phone as a source.



I am not absolutely sure if any of the FiiO devices available at this moment, or any device can do that 

There is FiiO M7 which does basically what you need, but it is a standalone player


----------



## FiiO

gto88 said:


> Just dig in Qualcomm csr8670 spec sheet, the chip is capable of both tx &  rx and Is also a mcu chip.
> Which means, if fiio upgrade their bluetooth firmware, it can support transmitting to Bluetooth headphone.
> Am I right @FiiO ?


Dear friend,

We will not add the Bluetooth transmission function for the Q5 so it could not connect to the Bluetooth headphone. If you would like to use the Bluetooth headphone, maybe the M7 is a better choice.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We will not add the Bluetooth transmission function for the Q5 so it could not connect to the Bluetooth headphone. If you would like to use the Bluetooth headphone, maybe the M7 is a better choice.
> 
> Best regards


Not that I want you to add this to the Q5, I have Bluetooth headphones, but I use my phone with them, but could you elaborate as to why FiiO wouldn't add this functionality? Is there a technical reason, or is it simply because as you say FiiO has positioned the M7 to handle that type of thing?


----------



## snellemin

Sonic Defender said:


> Not that I want you to add this to the Q5, I have Bluetooth headphones, but I use my phone with them, but could you elaborate as to why FiiO wouldn't add this functionality? Is there a technical reason, or is it simply because as you say FiiO has positioned the M7 to handle that type of thing?



I'm trying to think when this would be a good option.

1. I have some old pc with no BT.  So the Q5 hooks up to the PC and transmits music to the BT headphones or iems.
2. I'm using one of my old cassette walkman's, minidiscs, etc and go through the line in of the Q5 and transmit music to my BT Headphones.
3. I'm using the line out, optical in or coax of my TV into the Q5.  Q5 transmits the audio to my BT headphones.
4. Punch myself in the face and get with the program.


----------



## fe-lixx

snellemin said:


> 4. Punch myself in the face and get with the program.


The sound quality of that cheep in your ears after getting punched in the face by yourself will never be equaled by any headphone or DAC or any part of your highest fidelity chain. 

But seriously... The Q5 quite clearly isn't positioned as a "source device" of any kind, meaning it's never meant to be the first part of a chain. It's not playing your vinyls, your CDs, MP3s. It's meant to convert a digital signal coming from such a source into an analog signal, so it accepts various PCM and DSD formats via USB/coax/optical and as a wireless bonus also BT.

While it would technically be possible to also include BT transmitter functionality (and don't get me wrong, Sonic Defender, I totally understand your question and I doubt it would technically be a high effort to use that CSR chip as a receiver and transmitter in the same device), it wouldn't really make sense from a product placement point of view: For USB you can buy 10 USD transmitters for your PC, if it doesn't already have BT built in, which supports aptX. And for an analog source -> BT transmitter at high quality, you'd need all the necessary and expensive hardware for a proper ADC - which is the opposite of what the Q5's main focus is.

So while I agree that it would be a nice feature, and might not even be hard (= not expensive) to add, I also think that it's not a feature many people would look for in such a device, which might also be the manufacturer's perspective.

All that said, and even with FiiO's confirming statement regarding the Q5, FiiO have surprised us from time to time with new products in the past, which haven't been available in that form before (at least not at their usual price ranges). Thinking about the BTR3 as first to support practically any current high quality BT audio codec, their "portable DAC/amp with desktop dock" products, or their current lineup with the changeable amp modules. So it might not be totally out of the question or just wishful thinking that we could see a device that combines BT transmitter and receiver in one unit with a multitude of high quality analog and digital inputs and outputs. "Wireless bridges" are a thing already, and while they're already available in variants not using lossy BT codecs but lossless formats instead, these products are built for this one bridge-mode purpose only, while FiiO's products often combine multiple options in one device. So if anyone was going to build such a thing, I wouldn't be surprised, if it was them. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an oracle, but we'll see...


----------



## BobSmith8901 (Aug 24, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## Sonic Defender

@FiiO hopefully you can shed some light on this situation for me. My Q5 can only connect to my LG G6 through AAC. By contrast, my iFi iOne connects via aptX to the G6. What could be happening here? I use Android, but my Q5 had been used by others so I am wondering, if an iOS person made an AAC connection to my Q5, would that remain as the default connection and I need to use a friends iPhone via the FiiO music app to change this? Up to now I go through the Developer Options on my Oreo OS on the G6 and select aptX as the default codec, but immediately upon connecting to the Q5 is connects as AAC. Is there any chance there is something wrong with my Q5? Your thoughts are appreciated and if it is something needing to be done through the IOS app, what must be done and where. Cheers.


----------



## FiiO

Sonic Defender said:


> @FiiO hopefully you can shed some light on this situation for me. My Q5 can only connect to my LG G6 through AAC. By contrast, my iFi iOne connects via aptX to the G6. What could be happening here? I use Android, but my Q5 had been used by others so I am wondering, if an iOS person made an AAC connection to my Q5, would that remain as the default connection and I need to use a friends iPhone via the FiiO music app to change this? Up to now I go through the Developer Options on my Oreo OS on the G6 and select aptX as the default codec, but immediately upon connecting to the Q5 is connects as AAC. Is there any chance there is something wrong with my Q5? Your thoughts are appreciated and if it is something needing to be done through the IOS app, what must be done and where. Cheers.


Dear friend,

What about connecting to the Q5 first, then switch the codec to APTX after successful connection?
The FiiO Music doesn't have the option for switching the codec to APTX. And the Q5 could support APTX but not APTX-LL.
Do you have another players or moblie phones support APTX for checking?

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Sonic Defender said:


> Not that I want you to add this to the Q5, I have Bluetooth headphones, but I use my phone with them, but could you elaborate as to why FiiO wouldn't add this functionality? Is there a technical reason, or is it simply because as you say FiiO has positioned the M7 to handle that type of thing?


Dear friend,

That function was not planned for the Q5 originally. Also, the practical applicability is not high. So we will not add the Bluetooth transmission function for the Q5.

Best regards


----------



## Sonic Defender

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> What about connecting to the Q5 first, then switch the codec to APTX after successful connection?
> The FiiO Music doesn't have the option for switching the codec to APTX. And the Q5 could support APTX but not APTX-LL.
> ...


Thank you, yes you can make a connection see it is AAC and switch it in developer options to aptX, but that doesn't mean the connection is going to be aptX. I think that the AAC connection once made remains until you actually disconnect so just switching to aptX will likely do nothing but make me think that the connection is aptX. I think there is something with the two chips that fail to negotiate an aptX connection so they instead establish AAC, why I'm not sure. The G6 has aptX HD, but as you know that is supposed to be backwards compatible and still establish aptX connections. There was at least one other member here in this thread having the exact same issue with his LG G6 and the Q5. Is there anyway FiiO can at least see what the chipset used by LG for the North American G6 version is? Perhaps there is an incompatibility that nobody has discovered?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Sonic Defender said:


> Thank you, yes you can make a connection see it is AAC and switch it in developer options to aptX, but that doesn't mean the connection is going to be aptX. I think that the AAC connection once made remains until you actually disconnect so just switching to aptX will likely do nothing but make me think that the connection is aptX. I think there is something with the two chips that fail to negotiate an aptX connection so they instead establish AAC, why I'm not sure. The G6 has aptX HD, but as you know that is supposed to be backwards compatible and still establish aptX connections. There was at least one other member here in this thread having the exact same issue with his LG G6 and the Q5. Is there anyway FiiO can at least see what the chipset used by LG for the North American G6 version is? Perhaps there is an incompatibility that nobody has discovered?



On my HTC 10, when I switch the codec in "Developer options", the Q5 always reconnects - the sound stops and the blue light blinks for two seconds - so I suppose it uses the newly selected codec. 
Also you can check in Q5 Bluetooth settings on your phone if "Use high quality audio: aptX" is checked. See here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-136#post-14243981
You can also try to unpair and re-pair the Q5 with your phone.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

I just bought the FiiO CL06 cable and made some more comparisons between aptX and USB modes, and to me the sound quality in USB mode is significantly better in terms of resolution, dynamics and separation.
So as much as I like the convenience of Bluetooth, now I'm tempted to use it stacked whenever I can. For sure during colder months when I'll have bigger pockets 
For stacking I use the FiiO leather case and the velcro strips provided, and another TPU phone case specially for this. No rubber bands. I just pop the phone in and out. 
If you want to use this method be sure to attach the soft velcro parts to the leather case so you can use it with the phone case detached also, without it sticking to clothes or so.


----------



## Sonic Defender

KopaneDePooj said:


> On my HTC 10, when I switch the codec in "Developer options", the Q5 always reconnects - the sound stops and the blue light blinks for two seconds - so I suppose it uses the newly selected codec.
> Also you can check in Q5 Bluetooth settings on your phone if "Use high quality audio: aptX" is checked. See here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-136#post-14243981
> You can also try to unpair and re-pair the Q5 with your phone.


I've done all of this. I don't think my LG Oreo version exposes the use high quality aptX, but I'll look more carefully next time. I'm away from home so sadly can't check now. I'll report back once I get a chance. Cheers.


----------



## gefellmics

I'm a proud owner of the FIIO Q5 for about 3 days now....
I enjoyed the sound so far but I'm really frustrated with the bluetooth connection. In many reviews it was written about a stabile bluetooth connection (compared with the Ifi xDSD for example)....so especially this was the most important fact to buy this device.
However....in portable use I cannot get a stabile bluetooth connection. The Q5 is situated inside of my jacket and I paired it with different DAC's (Shanling M0, Hibizs AP60II or Fiio X5III) which I hold in the Hand or carrying in my Jeans-pocket. So the distance is about 20-50cm, but my body is between the two devices.

I still can not imagine that this use is so uncommon and makes the Q5 in Bluetooth mode unusable....very frustrating. If it is required to hold the two devices side by side to get a secure connection, then I can connect the same devices with a cable....so I still hope that there is another reason for it.

The Q5 got the newest Firmware and newest Bluetooth upgrade from the both upgrade tools from the website. The Shanling, Hibisz and Fiio also have the current firmware.

Any suggestions or similar experiences??

It would be sad to return the Q5 because of this issue, because otherwise I really enjoy the sound.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

gefellmics said:


> I'm a proud owner of the FIIO Q5 for about 3 days now....
> I enjoyed the sound so far but I'm really frustrated with the bluetooth connection. In many reviews it was written about a stabile bluetooth connection (compared with the Ifi xDSD for example)....so especially this was the most important fact to buy this device.
> However....in portable use I cannot get a stabile bluetooth connection. The Q5 is situated inside of my jacket and I paired it with different DAC's (Shanling M0, Hibizs AP60II or Fiio X5III) which I hold in the Hand or carrying in my Jeans-pocket. So the distance is about 20-50cm, but my body is between the two devices.
> 
> ...



Yes, the human body can block Bluetooth signal, I've read about it. High percentage of water, and BT waves don't go through water.
Try to wear the two devices on the same side of the body. I wear my Q5 and phone in my two front jeans pockets and generally I have no drops but I notice that if bend down (for example to tie my shoe) and the antennas get more covered by my body, the signal drops instantly.
Here, 1st answer by Mike Foley, Consultant and Former Executive Director of Bluetooth SIG:
https://www.quora.com/Bluetooth-sig...-Is-this-normal-or-is-something-wrong-with-me


----------



## tim0chan

gefellmics said:


> I'm a proud owner of the FIIO Q5 for about 3 days now....
> I enjoyed the sound so far but I'm really frustrated with the bluetooth connection. In many reviews it was written about a stabile bluetooth connection (compared with the Ifi xDSD for example)....so especially this was the most important fact to buy this device.
> However....in portable use I cannot get a stabile bluetooth connection. The Q5 is situated inside of my jacket and I paired it with different DAC's (Shanling M0, Hibizs AP60II or Fiio X5III) which I hold in the Hand or carrying in my Jeans-pocket. So the distance is about 20-50cm, but my body is between the two devices.
> 
> ...


i had no issues with the range. try to keep thee q5 and the transmitting device on the same side of your body ie: front jeans pocket and front jacket pocket. Also, the device transmitting bt doesnt really matter so it would be best to use a phone as phones usually have the best ranges. From your selection of sources, i think the M0 has the best range but make sure the screen is not facing your body as the signal comes out of the screen side


----------



## FiiO

gefellmics said:


> I'm a proud owner of the FIIO Q5 for about 3 days now....
> I enjoyed the sound so far but I'm really frustrated with the bluetooth connection. In many reviews it was written about a stabile bluetooth connection (compared with the Ifi xDSD for example)....so especially this was the most important fact to buy this device.
> However....in portable use I cannot get a stabile bluetooth connection. The Q5 is situated inside of my jacket and I paired it with different DAC's (Shanling M0, Hibizs AP60II or Fiio X5III) which I hold in the Hand or carrying in my Jeans-pocket. So the distance is about 20-50cm, but my body is between the two devices.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Yes, human body would absorb Bluetooth signal. Since the human body absorbs the 2G-3G high frequency signal most strongly, it is necessary to prevent the body from blocking the Bluetooth signal during use. For example, putting your Bluetooth transmitter in your back pocket and put your Bluetooth receiver on your chest will seriously affect the Bluetooth transmission. Therefore, please try to putthe Bluetooth receiver and transmitter on the same side of your body to avoid signal blocked by your body.

If there are local store in your city, you could try the demo in the store and compare as well.

Best regards


----------



## Dodeca

Alex Kitic said:


> The difference in sound between USB cables exist, and is totally comparable to the difference in sound between coaxial digital cables



I'm a total creeper around here and have been for years, but this statement made me laugh out loud enough to prompt a reply.

USB is passing a digital signal to the DAC.  There is no appreciable sonic difference between USB cables. Any difference heard is placebo.


----------



## Alex Kitic

Dodeca said:


> I'm a total creeper around here and have been for years, but this statement made me laugh out loud enough to prompt a reply.
> 
> USB is passing a digital signal to the DAC.  There is no appreciable sonic difference between USB cables. Any difference heard is placebo.



I envy people like you, who can’t hear the difference between cables.

The asynchronous USB connection carries a digital signal similar to what the coaxial digital cable carries, plus 5V and power ground - if you cannot hear differences between USB cables, you cannot hear differences between coaxial digital cables. Probably you can’t hear differences between interconnects or speaker cables?
This either means you don’t have the hearing ability, or your equipment does not allow you to hear the differences.

There’s also differences between various brands, even batches of the same vacuum tube in the same circuit, not to mention the differences between capacitors...

If you cannot hear those differences, you are blessed with simplicity, and don’t need to spend good money on all these unimportant items. Not to mention the MoFi 45rpm special editions and all the other things out there just waiting for you to throw away money buying stuff that is only placebo...

On the other hand, if I reconsider, I prefer to continue to be able to hear all that stuff: even if it’s placebo, it’s immensely enjoyable. But not being able to hear that, you don’t know what you’re missing... thus I am not sure whether to envy you or to feel sorry for you.

Either way, try to enjoy life, there’s so much out there that you’re probably missing.


----------



## fe-lixx

The effects of network cabling is also horribly underrated. The sound of different Twisted Pair cables for Ethernet alone! It takes a long, long time to explain and understand, but once you've heard the whole story, you'll be able to understand why the internet smells differently on each computer and why every ISP delivers a distinct "flavor" to their customers. Just try listening to any streaming service via your home or work WiFi, which should already be a difference, and then compare that to 3G or 4G mobile data connections. When I visited the US, the AT&T 4G connections actually made me gag once. Also photos I took during my visit there and uploaded them to the cloud seem kind of faded in terms of color. When I copied them again using a highly shielded USB connection directly from my phone's memory, I saw what difference that made.
For home listening, just as an example: The music I stream via my Spotify account sounds only acceptable when tunneled over TOR exit nodes in Tuscany, though I wish they'd use more fiber instead of copper in their backbones over there, for an even lighter sound, too much copper (or possibly just bad wiring practices in datacenters that transport your data - some are using horribly cheap cabling for their power supplies) makes music sound very heavy and dark. The only other exit nodes that sound alright for background music are the Norwegian ones. They mainly use hydropower plants for generating power, this appears to have a generally great impact of even and clean power supply to datacenters and homes alike. I'll have to bring my rig with me when I visit Oslo again, I bet it'll sound a whole lot better there than with my unfiltered atomic crap here in France.
If anyone has observed other good sounding exit nodes or VPNs that offer great sound quality for streaming, I'd love to hear your experiences.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Nobody is ever going to agree on these issues. For the record I also can't hear any difference. I used a cheapo USB cable from my printer with a $3000 DAC and was quite content.


----------



## Dodeca (Sep 5, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## Dodeca

Hey Fiio!

Just stumbled on this thread...  I picked up the Q5 the other week on a whim, as I needed to re-tool my mobile sound setup.  I have to say, I really love this unit.  

I hadn't done a lot of research on the unit beforehand, but it's turning out to be a real Swiss-army knife for me...  a total multi-tool.

Sound quality is great, the switchable L/H gain and bass boost is nice to have.  The bluetooth implementation has been solid, and I've had no problems with Tidal on lossless over aptX...  loving how the signal gets pumped through the buttery-yet-transparent DACs.  It's rugged AF and I've got no hesitations throwing it into my bag or traveling with it in my pocket.  

But here's the bonus: IT COMES WITH AN ASIO DRIVER!!?  I'm able use the Q5 in my DAW / Ableton sessions while on the go with some REAL LOW LATENCY.  At 64 samples, Ableton reports a RTL of 4.90ms.  Fantastic -- I don't even need to unplug/replug my IEMs when going from bluetooth on my Pixel 2 and then swapping into my laptop.

This thing is great: a perfect commuter + mobile audio tool.  Thanks for the design!


----------



## Alex Kitic

Dodeca said:


> Your sympathies are appreciated, but they're also misplaced -- the extra cash in my pocket from not being swindled by digital cabling prevents me from missing out on lots!
> 
> I think you're conflating digital vs. analogue signal paths.  There are absolutely differences between sound quality in an analogue audio path -- whether it's cabling or circuitry or vac tubes or anything else along the way, but I'd argue some of these differences are, at times, also placebo.  But there is absolutely nothing that will appreciably degrade or affect sonic quality on the digital path from source to DAC; it's like saying that copying a photo from one folder to another results in pixel loss.
> 
> ...



Copying a file from one folder to another, or one device to the other is a copy and subject to a CRC (cyclic redundancy check). There will be no difference between 2 files if they have not been altered, or otherwise some error in copying occurs.

The “digital” signal path from source to DAC does indeed transfer digital data, but there is no CRC and data is transferred analogically, i.e. a stream is emitted and received. Therefore this stream is subject to alteration and one known form is jitter.

To summarize, copying a file form one folder to another is not the same as transferring a signal (digital or analog) from an emittor to a receiver.

If you can hear differences between interconnects or speaker cables in the transfer of analog signals, you should be able to hear the differences between cables that transfer a digital strem between two devices.

There is no “audio school” that I know of where they can teach you to distinguish anything. But, there are serious academic courses where they can teach you the basics (and more) about files or signal transfer.

Ignorance is a far worse sin than subjectivity to placebo.


----------



## Dodeca (Sep 5, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## Brooko

Gents
The FiiO Q5 thread is no place for this discussion.  Please cease it - or I’ll be forced to call in the Mods.

Alex - there are plenty of threads in Sound Science where you can make your anecdotal claims - suggest you do so over there.

Thanks.


----------



## Dodeca

Brooko said:


> Gents
> The FiiO Q5 thread is no place for this discussion.  Please cease it - or I’ll be forced to call in the Mods.



You're 100% right, Brooko.  I've taken down my more... ornery... replies.  Q5 is a great bit of kit, shoulda left it at that.


----------



## Zodler

I'm getting FIIO Q5. I have a Sennheiser HD 800 S. Do I have to get another amp module for Q5 for better sound with this headphone?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Zodler said:


> I'm getting FIIO Q5. I have a Sennheiser HD 800 S. Do I have to get another amp module for Q5 for better sound with this headphone?


Depending on how loud you like your music playback volume, and depending on the music itself, you may want the A5 which I believe has the most power. Older more dynamic music is recorded more quietly as compared with newer (90s and newer) recordings where compression and limiting is used so if you like classic rock from the 70s and enjoy louder volume listening I suspect the HD800S might require more power. I owned the HD800S, but I only powered it with a speaker amp and a La Figaro 339 OTL amp that had lots of power so no experience with the Q5 and the 800S.


----------



## gto88

Zodler said:


> I'm getting FIIO Q5. I have a Sennheiser HD 800 S. Do I have to get another amp module for Q5 for better sound with this headphone?





Sonic Defender said:


> Depending on how loud you like your music playback volume, and depending on the music itself, you may want the A5 which I believe has the most power. Older more dynamic music is recorded more quietly as compared with newer (90s and newer) recordings where compression and limiting is used so if you like classic rock from the 70s and enjoy louder volume listening I suspect the HD800S might require more power. I owned the HD800S, but I only powered it with a speaker amp and a La Figaro 339 OTL amp that had lots of power so no experience with the Q5 and the 800S.



A5 amp has 55mw at 300Ohm.
If you get balanced out on AM3A comes with Q5, you get 63mW for 300ohm.


----------



## Zodler

Do I need to buy new cables for Sennheiser HD 800 S for balanced out? It's not in the box? Balanced cables that can get connected to Q5.


----------



## gto88

Yes, you do.
And you may want to get xlr for HD800s, and get a 2.5mm to xlr female for Q5.
So, you will have to do this Q5 -> 2.5mm balanced out , XLR female -> xlr male cable of HD800S
I just bought a 2.5mm trrs to female XLR, so I can connect all my headphone which has XLR cable on Q5.


----------



## kukkurovaca

Zodler said:


> Do I need to buy new cables for Sennheiser HD 800 S for balanced out? It's not in the box? Balanced cables that can get connected to Q5.



If you don't want to go the XLR -> 2.5mm adapter route, a relatively inexpensive option for HD800 to 2.5mm is LQI cables on eBay. The connectors aren't as nice as the stock Sennheiser ones, but they do the job.


----------



## Zodler

Balanced cable with XLR4 connector is already in the box (HD800S box). I guess I will get only the 2.5mm XLR female adapter.


----------



## Zodler

The problem is that 2.5mm XLR female adapter is not common. Can't find it on Amazon.


----------



## Grayven

i use this balanced with my ZMF Blackwood which takes a wicked amount of juice..and it sounds great, bluetooth included.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Sep 6, 2018)

gto88 said:


> A5 amp has 55mw at 300Ohm.
> If you get balanced out on AM3A comes with Q5, you get 63mW for 300ohm.


Yes, that I do realize, but unless I am not remembering things correctly, there is no included 2.5mm balanced terminated cable included with the HD800S. I have never really looked into such adapters, but I suspect a 2.5mm balanced adapter could be a possibility with the 800S? Not something I know much about as I have never had the need for such an adapter so perhaps somebody more in the know could chime in.

Edit: LOL just looking at the various responses that dealt with the adapter question. I think I should read the whole page before replying!


----------



## gto88

Zodler said:


> The problem is that 2.5mm XLR female adapter is not common. Can't find it on Amazon.


Here are those I found in amazon:
one
two
three
There are more, just search "2.5mm trrs to XLR female".


----------



## gto88

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, that I do realize, but unless I am not remembering things correctly, there is no included 2.5mm balanced terminated cable included with the HD800S. I have never really looked into such adapters, but I suspect a 2.5mm balanced adapter could be a possibility with the 800S? Not something I know much about as I have never had the need for such an adapter so perhaps somebody more in the know could chime in.
> 
> Edit: LOL just looking at the various responses that dealt with the adapter question. I think I should read the whole page before replying!


HD800S is not supposed to be driven by portable gear, so I am sure they will not include adapter like that.
I am surprised that an XLR is included for HD800S, as the latest model of LCD-3 has only single end cable.


----------



## Lay.

I have not tried the am3a balanced and HD800S yet, but am3b balanced (70mw at 300ohm) with HD800S pairs really well and sounds amazing. AM3B seems to have a bit more bass emphasis and overall thicker and warmer sound.


----------



## gto88

Lay. said:


> I have not tried the am3a balanced and HD800S yet, but am3b balanced (70mw at 300ohm) with HD800S pairs really well and sounds amazing. AM3B seems to have a bit more bass emphasis and overall thicker and warmer sound.


But am3b use 4.4mm, so you use adapter or dedicated cable.


----------



## Lay.

gto88 said:


> But am3b use 4.4mm, so you use adapter or dedicated cable.



Dedicated cable. I really like the 4.4mm pentaconn over the 2.5mm and XLR balanced connectors. Hopefully it will become more widespread in the future.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Zodler said:


> I'm getting FIIO Q5. I have a Sennheiser HD 800 S. Do I have to get another amp module for Q5 for better sound with this headphone?



I absolutely recommend AMP5 for proper volume


----------



## Brooko

Into 300 ohms (HD800S)

AM3A balanced => 63 mW, peak output voltage 10 Vp-p, max output current 150 mA
AM3B balanced => 70 mW, peak output voltage 11.8 Vp-p, max output current 150 mA
AM5 single ended => 55mW, peak output voltage 11 Vp-p, max output current 250 mA

HD800S isn't an overly difficult load in terms of sensitivity, so current isn't a problem.  The impedance needs voltage though.

All 3 modules will drive an HD800S reasonably well (for a portable).  I have all 3 amps and the HD800S.  My personal pick would be the AM3B, but all 3 are pretty good.


----------



## Zodler (Sep 7, 2018)

I'm in France and my options on Amazon France are limited and don't find any adapters.

I found this
future win câble HiFi 2,5 mm TRRS Balanced Male
for Sennheiser HD580, HD600, HD650, also for HD700.

Will this work with HD800S also?


----------



## tim0chan

Zodler said:


> I'm in France and my options on Amazon France are limited and don't find any adapters.
> 
> I found this
> future win câble HiFi 2,5 mm TRRS Balanced Male
> ...


no it will not work. the connectors are wrong


----------



## Zodler

Thanks. This seems it's going to be a lot of pain to find. 
Q5 -> HD800S will it really sound a lot better with balanced output? How different will it be balanced vs unbalanced with these 2 specific amp + headphone?


----------



## tim0chan

Zodler said:


> Thanks. This seems it's going to be a lot of pain to find.
> Q5 -> HD800S will it really sound a lot better with balanced output? How different will it be balanced vs unbalanced with these 2 specific amp + headphone?


its not a pain. u can order from locals DIYers. Im sure u can find reasonably priced cables within the French audio community


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Zodler said:


> Thanks. This seems it's going to be a lot of pain to find.
> Q5 -> HD800S will it really sound a lot better with balanced output? How different will it be balanced vs unbalanced with these 2 specific amp + headphone?



Yes it will sound "better" because in the case of AM3A for example the balanced output is much more powerful than single ended: 63mW vs. 17mW. And your headphone needs that power to be moved properly.
Anyways my advice is, if you have the HD800S you shouldn't compromise on source and amplification. I would get a desktop DAC/AMP.
From the general consensus here, the Q5 with any amp module does "pretty good" to "very well" with 300ohm Sennheisers. But you don't need "pretty good" you need the best 
Pair the HD800S with a decent desktop rig and eventually get the Q5 for portable use.


----------



## Zodler

I'm no expert at Balanced. Is it possible with a jack to convert normal stereo 3,5 mm to 2.5 mm trrs balanced? Or the whole cable should be labeled Balanced?


----------



## tim0chan

Zodler said:


> I'm no expert at Balanced. Is it possible with a jack to convert normal stereo 3,5 mm to 2.5 mm trrs balanced? Or the whole cable should be labeled Balanced?


Cut off the jack and resolder with balanced jack


----------



## Brooko

Zodler said:


> I'm no expert at Balanced. Is it possible with a jack to convert normal stereo 3,5 mm to 2.5 mm trrs balanced? Or the whole cable should be labeled Balanced?



Cable has to be balanced - ie 2 x signal (positive and negative) + separate ground.


----------



## gto88 (Sep 9, 2018)

Got my 2.5mm trrs to XLR adapter today, with it I can connect headphone with XLR.
Sorry picture is still too big after 50% down sized.


----------



## Zodler

I got my FIIO Q5. Can't connect my HD800S yet but I also have Sennheiser IE 800 S which has 2.5mm cable.

So I did tests with IE800S both in balanced and normal and wow! It's like night and day the difference. It's like HDR for audio.
Now I can't go back, I will always listen with balanced cable if possible.

Question. If you listen with normal cable at a higher volume and Balanced with a lower volume where both have the same volume to your ear, is there still any difference? 
Is balanced clearer or just louder?


----------



## tim0chan

Zodler said:


> I got my FIIO Q5. Can't connect my HD800S yet but I also have Sennheiser IE 800 S which has 2.5mm cable.
> 
> So I did tests with IE800S both in balanced and normal and wow! It's like night and day the difference. It's like HDR for audio.
> Now I can't go back, I will always listen with balanced cable if possible.
> ...


Clearer. Best to try for yourself


----------



## Zodler

I did and I love it. With normal cable it's like you don't have an amp at all! With balanced cable it sounds like the amp is working!


----------



## Brooko

Zodler said:


> I got my FIIO Q5. Can't connect my HD800S yet but I also have Sennheiser IE 800 S which has 2.5mm cable.
> 
> So I did tests with IE800S both in balanced and normal and wow! It's like night and day the difference. It's like HDR for audio.
> Now I can't go back, I will always listen with balanced cable if possible.
> ...



You're listening to the balanced output louder, and because of that you're hearing more dynamic sound etc.  You could do the same with single-ended, and if you had both at the same volume you wouldn't tell the difference in a blind volume matched test.

I wrote this a while ago when posed with a question regarding the X7ii and its balanced amp .....

The specs will actually tell you more than your hearing will. Take the X7ii and its new balanced module.

It'll put 17mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 63 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650 or HD800S) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 200 mW and balanced is 380 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage .......  Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 116 dB and on balanced is 119 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.003% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 97 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:


> The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.
> 
> The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. *It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB*. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.
> So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.


As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 97 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.
There are two other possibilities for differences:

The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 12 ohm (SE) vs 1.7 ohm (bal) output.
Most of the balanced discussion on Head-Fi is anecdotal. Especially when you're talking IEMs and portable DAPs. It sells units though - so manufacturers have to supply what the consumers want.

Hope some of this helps.


----------



## TheoS53

Brooko said:


> You're listening to the balanced output louder, and because of that you're hearing more dynamic sound etc.  You could do the same with single-ended, and if you had both at the same volume you wouldn't tell the difference in a blind volume matched test.
> 
> I wrote this a while ago when posed with a question regarding the X7ii and its balanced amp .....
> 
> ...



That's a good explanation right there. 

Just to add to it (and this applies to many more areas of our lives).....it seems that many (perhaps most) people will simply take their experience of something and assume that it's a universal truth without conducting further testing in order to confirm whether or not what they _perceived_ to be true is _actually_ true. 

A very simple example of this is an optical illusion. Your brain tells you that you are seeing one thing, when in reality it's actually something totally different. Once the "illusion" is revealed and your brain has all the info to see what is actually going on, then you can begin to figure out why your initial perception was actually incorrect. Unfortunately, especially on this forum, there are far too many folks who chant something along the lines of "measurements don't mean squat, trust your ears". This just shows a lack of understanding for a scientific approach and an absence of want/need to discover truth. There seems to be an inability to admit to or even recognise the very limits of our physiology, and to some extent perhaps even a perceived superiority in their physiology over any form of measurements. 

As @Brooko  mentioned, much of these specs go way beyond what we can hear anyways. It's a bit like saying that you'd be able to tell the difference between something moving at the speed of light and something moving at even just 1% of that speed. In fact, it's been calculated that the fastest moving object that the human eye can track is no more than about 60,000 km/h (37,282 mph). That's less than 1/16384th (or 0.006%) of the speed of light. 

So, it all boils down to this. Understand that measurements have their place and that they are to be used as tools. Heck, the very reason why we even have measurements to begin with is because they're able to tell us things that we wouldn't be able to see/hear/feel otherwise, not to mention that tools can do this with far greater accuracy and reliability than any human. 
But, as I said, these measurements have their place, and it's important for us to also not get too caught up in the specs. Just because something _measures_ 10x better (i.e a THD+N figure of 0.00004% vs 0.0004%) doesn't mean that it'll actually sound any better to you _*at all*_. And likewise when it comes to balanced vs single-ended...if you do hear a difference, do some testing, figure out why you hear a difference. If it simply comes down to a case of one being louder than the other (which it has been demonstrated to do, many, many times) then you'd be right, there is a difference, but it's a difference that can be replicated by simply turning the volume up on the single-ended setup.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Hardware bass boost on Fiio Q5 vs software bass boost on Fiio X7 MKII.

Are they comparable?

Is one "better" than the other?


----------



## TheoS53

TheEldestBoy said:


> Hardware bass boost on Fiio Q5 vs software bass boost on Fiio X7 MKII.
> 
> Are they comparable?
> 
> Is one "better" than the other?



Generally speaking the Q5's bass boost would be "better" because it applies the boost in the analogue domain, as opposed to any type of software EQ which fiddles with the actual digital data. However, some would argue that the end result is so similar that you wouldn't be able to tell a difference in a blind test. That's probably true, but what also happens when you go the digital EQ route is that the volume level will be dropped in order to accommodate the boost without clipping the signal. So, if you're using some demanding headphones that don't leave your player with much volume headroom, then that drop in volume might mean that you can't get things up to a satisfactory volume level. When using the bass boost on the Q5 you won't have that issue.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

TheoS53 said:


> Generally speaking the Q5's bass boost would be "better" because it applies the boost in the analogue domain, as opposed to any type of software EQ which fiddles with the actual digital data. However, some would argue that the end result is so similar that you wouldn't be able to tell a difference in a blind test. That's probably true, but what also happens when you go the digital EQ route is that the volume level will be dropped in order to accommodate the boost without clipping the signal. So, if you're using some demanding headphones that don't leave your player with much volume headroom, then that drop in volume might mean that you can't get things up to a satisfactory volume level. When using the bass boost on the Q5 you won't have that issue.



Thank for the reply.

My main concern is that I want the subjective sound of the bass boost (what I can actually "hear") to be virtually identical between the 2 devices. Sounds like it will be.


----------



## Papa253

franz12 said:


> Is AMP5 more powerful for a unbalanced output? I hope Q5 can drive my ether c flow, though I don't have a balanced cable.
> 
> No plan to use IEMs with it, because I am pretty much satisfied with Airpods and no plan to buy any other IEMs for now. I am afraid that I might need to sell Q5 if it doesn't do a good job driving my ether.


I'm just wondering how you're able to use your airpods with the fiio Q5. Can you give more Info on how you've done this?


----------



## Papa253

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Ok, sorry for the inconveninence bringing to you. We will still report to the engineer about that.
> 
> Best regards


I've noticed a drop out in bluetooth mode with my android Samsung note 8 but not on my iPhone SE.
Is this an Android only problem?


----------



## Sonic Defender

@FiiO, here is a question about the Bluetooth chip in the Q5. As I have posted previously, it is impossible to have my LG G6 establish any type of Bluetooth connection above the capability of AAC. At first I thought that this might be my phone, but I now know that it is the chip in the Q5. I recently purchased a Sony WH1000xM3 headphone, and when I pair it with my phone, there is an option that allows me to select a Connection Type where I can set Best sound quality. This setting is not available for the Q5 and because of that Android defaults to the most stable Codec which apparently with my phone and version of Android 8, build number OPR1.170623.032 software version H87320e means AAC is the best codec that can be used. 

Clearly if the Sony headphone can communicate with my Android operating system that it is able to handle the Best audio quality setting this means the functionality is on the chip. Is this something that can be fixed with a Bluetooth update? With the Sony my G6 phone can use aptx, aptx HD, LDAC, whatever I wish, simply because the setting for Connection type is available. Your advice or thoughts would be appreciated. If anybody else here has solved or experienced a similar situation I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

As a related post, does anybody have the link from earlier in the thread about updating the Bluetooth firmware? Maybe this issue has been fixed. I updated once when I first purchased the Q5 in the early summer, but not since.


----------



## Hinomotocho

I've read some opinions that the AM3B is warm sounding. For now I'm using the XBA-Z5 balanced out of my ZX300, is anyone able to please compare the ZX300 with the Q5 w/AM3B? On the occasions I'm at my desk I use an Oppo HA-2 but I'm attracted to the 4.4mm balanced output.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Sep 18, 2018)

Android users, specifically 7 and 8 versions. For those who have enabled developer options, would anybody be willing to see if they can connect to their Q5 using a Codec such as aptx, aptx HD or LDAC? I am trying to determine if I am experiencing a situation unique to me, but I don't think so. As described previously by me, my Sony WH1000xM3 can be configured on my phone with an additional setting in Bluetooth for Connection Type. The Q5 does not have this additional setting available. Without the availability of using the connection type setting your Android OS will default to forcing the most stable connection type which appears to be AAC. I wonder how many people are unaware that when using Bluetooth with the Q5 and their Android phone they actually MAY not have access to the various codec options.

Frankly AAC seems to sound quite good, I can't say that I know I can hear a difference anyway; however, if the Q5 can have the Bluetooth updated to allow full access to codec connections made available by your phone (assuming it has the advanced codec options) it would be ideal. If this isn't the case it would be nice if FiiO can tell us what the situation is. @FiiO, can you please comment on this situation? Regardless, even with AAC I think my Q5 sounds brilliant.


----------



## khyaris

I can force AAC and aptx on my Q5 through Android. Default connection is aptx.
Android 8, Galaxy S7


----------



## gto88

Q5 use QualComm CSR8670, which can handle up to Bluetooth 5.0 (Q5 use 4.2)
Andhere is the audio capability from data sheet, aptX is the best it can do.

Audio Technology

Qualcomm TrueWireless™ Technology
Qualcomm® Broadcast Audio technology
Qualcomm® aptX™ audio technology
Qualcomm® cVc™ audio technology
16 bit audio data path
Qualcomm® aptX™ playback support

aptX Classic
Qualcomm® eXtension program


----------



## Sonic Defender (Sep 19, 2018)

So, update here. After updating to the newest Bluetooth it seems that I can stream via aptX to the Q5 so that is good news. I need to test more and see if this holds. It does appear that still by default an AAC connection is made, but now if I change the codec to aptX in developer mode and close it, then return, the aptX setting is retained. This is new so that does seem to suggest that the Bluetooth update was required. Hopefully this clears things up and for anybody else who may have been experiencing the issue that I was, simply update the Bluetooth firmware and it appears things work. Cheers.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Sep 19, 2018)

khyaris said:


> I can force AAC and aptx on my Q5 through Android. Default connection is aptx.
> Android 8, Galaxy S7


How do you know that it is indeed an aptX connection? Do you get a message on your phone saying that an aptX enabled device has been connected or something to that effect? If not, just because you tell it in Developer options to use aptX by default does not mean that it does. I am able to go into developer options, tell it to use aptX which I have done I'm sure dozens of times now, but it never ever saves and simply makes an AAC connection.

Edit: As per previous post that has been updated, after a Q5 Bluetooth firmware update I do seem to be able to establish an aptX connection. Cheers.


----------



## khyaris (Sep 19, 2018)

Dude, if you put aptx on your developer option (and this is the only way to manually change things on android) and hear a sound it's working.
If you put aac, connection reset, you can hear your music, it's working.
If you put LDAC, connection reset and it just doesn't work.









If it doesn't work for you, that means your phone is not working properly : it's been said earlier that bugs are present on Android 8 for HTC and LG.
On samsung it works perfectly fine.

If you want to do further tests, which I did, you can manually find the codec used by retrieving the HCI log.
http://www.fte.com/WebHelp/BPA600/Content/Documentation/WhitePapers/BPA600/Encryption/GettingAndroidLinkKey/RetrievingHCIlog.htm


----------



## Sonic Defender (Sep 20, 2018)

@khyaris, thanks for the information, but that isn't actually completely true. Prior to me having upgraded the Bluetooth firmware I could select aptX as the codec via developer options, but it would not remain and once music was streaming to the Q5 if I went back into developer options it ALWAYS showed AAC as the streaming codec. That is not the case now so clearly the issue was not with my phone, it was with the Q5 Bluetooth. It is all irrelevant as it is fixed now, but no, my phone isn't broken, nor was it ever broken. I clearly indicated that my phone successfully negotiated aptX, aptX HD and LDAC connections with other devices, it was only the Q5 that I had issues with so again, that does not suggest the phone was ever the issue.

Edit: And just more evidence that the aptX issue had nothing to do with my G6. I just paired my G6 with my iFi iOne and it instantly made an aptX connection so there is certainly nothing wrong with the LG G6 Bluetooth implementation.


----------



## Papa253

Sonic Defender said:


> @FiiO, here is a question about the Bluetooth chip in the Q5. As I have posted previously, it is impossible to have my LG G6 establish any type of Bluetooth connection above the capability of AAC. At first I thought that this might be my phone, but I now know that it is the chip in the Q5. I recently purchased a Sony WH1000xM3 headphone, and when I pair it with my phone, there is an option that allows me to select a Connection Type where I can set Best sound quality. This setting is not available for the Q5 and because of that Android defaults to the most stable Codec which apparently with my phone and version of Android 8, build number OPR1.170623.032 software version H87320e means AAC is the best codec that can be used.
> 
> Clearly if the Sony headphone can communicate with my Android operating system that it is able to handle the Best audio quality setting this means the functionality is on the chip. Is this something that can be fixed with a Bluetooth update? With the Sony my G6 phone can use aptx, aptx HD, LDAC, whatever I wish, simply because the setting for Connection type is available. Your advice or thoughts would be appreciated. If anybody else here has solved or experienced a similar situation I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks.



That's all well and good but I'm using a macbook pro and don't have a current PC.
So is there a way to update firmware from a Mac to use the Q5 on my Samsung Note 8?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Papa253 said:


> That's all well and good but I'm using a macbook pro and don't have a current PC.
> So is there a way to update firmware from a Mac to use the Q5 on my Samsung Note 8?


Do you know for sure that you aren't able to stream via aptX from your Note 8? Maybe you can as it seems some Samsung users have indicated they didn't have any issues to begin with. Good luck, but as I don't use Mac I am unaware if FiiO has a way to do this for the Mac, but given the apple certification the Q5 has I would think they do offer this ability to Mac users, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Hinomotocho

I've read Tsyun's comparison with the Oppo HA-2SE - is anyone else able to please contribute some opinions between the 2 based on the sound?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Beninnzorjp said:


> I've read some opinions that the AM3B is warm sounding. For now I'm using the XBA-Z5 balanced out of my ZX300, is anyone able to please compare the ZX300 with the Q5 w/AM3B? On the occasions I'm at my desk I use an Oppo HA-2 but I'm attracted to the 4.4mm balanced output.



AM3B is quite warm I'd say, really really warm. Not overly smooth or lacking in anything, just some thick sweet warmth out there. 

Now I don't have ZX300 ir XBA-Z5, but I did listen to HA2 for a prolonged period of time, and that one was quite bright, energetic, very textury, I think AM3B will be quite different from it. Should make excellent complementary signatures though


----------



## Papa253

Sonic Defender said:


> Android users, specifically 7 and 8 versions. For those who have enabled developer options, would anybody be willing to see if they can connect to their Q5 using a Codec such as aptx, aptx HD or LDAC? I am trying to determine if I am experiencing a situation unique to me, but I don't think so. As described previously by me, my Sony WH1000xM3 can be configured on my phone with an additional setting in Bluetooth for Connection Type. The Q5 does not have this additional setting available. Without the availability of using the connection type setting your Android OS will default to forcing the most stable connection type which appears to be AAC. I wonder how many people are unaware that when using Bluetooth with the Q5 and their Android phone they actually MAY not have access to the various codec options.
> 
> Frankly AAC seems to sound quite good, I can't say that I know I can hear a difference anyway; however, if the Q5 can have the Bluetooth updated to allow full access to codec connections made available by your phone (assuming it has the advanced codec options) it would be ideal. If this isn't the case it would be nice if FiiO can tell us what the situation is. @FiiO, can you please comment on this situation? Regardless, even with AAC I think my Q5 sounds brilliant.


I've done and it seems to fix the android bluetooth dropouts


----------



## Papa253

Sonic Defender said:


> Do you know for sure that you aren't able to stream via aptX from your Note 8? Maybe you can as it seems some Samsung users have indicated they didn't have any issues to begin with. Good luck, but as I don't use Mac I am unaware if FiiO has a way to do this for the Mac, but given the apple certification the Q5 has I would think they do offer this ability to Mac users, but I could be wrong.


Not true for me, I to have Note 8 and I've been stream bluetooth aptX on my note 8 this morning!


----------



## Papa253

Papa253 said:


> Not true for me, I to have Note 8 and I've been stream bluetooth aptX on my note 8 this morning!


I probably should have read my earlier post


----------



## Papa253

Dobrescu George said:


> AM3B is quite warm I'd say, really really warm. Not overly smooth or lacking in anything, just some thick sweet warmth out there.
> 
> Now I don't have ZX300 ir XBA-Z5, but I did listen to HA2 for a prolonged period of time, and that one was quite bright, energetic, very textury, I think AM3B will be quite different from it. Should make excellent complementary signatures though





I would agree.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Papa253 said:


> Not true for me, I to have Note 8 and I've been stream bluetooth aptX on my note 8 this morning!


Glad to hear it.


----------



## gto88

While you are talking on cell phone bluetooth issue.
I tried to find out if my laptop can connect Q5 with aptX, and it turns out there
is driver from Dell can do it if you happen own PC use intel 8200/7200 wireless chip.
If you are interested here is the link: pc bluetooth driver for intel 8265
I have not installed yet, but try later.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Dobrescu George said:


> AM3B is quite warm I'd say, really really warm. Not overly smooth or lacking in anything, just some thick sweet warmth out there.
> 
> Now I don't have ZX300 ir XBA-Z5, but I did listen to HA2 for a prolonged period of time, and that one was quite bright, energetic, very textury, I think AM3B will be quite different from it. Should make excellent complementary signatures though





Papa253 said:


> I would agree.



Thanks for clarifying that - it hasn't been made obvious from all the reviews and posts I've read, it seems mostly described as neutral. Unfortunately the only store that sells it is not open on my day off and they don't stock the AM3B module, so I'm relying on other's opinions.
Are all the different modules meant to have roughly the same sound signature despite the characteristics of the balanced outputs, or are they designed to sound a bit different?


----------



## gto88

I installed the bluetooth driver on my laptop mentioned earlier, and connect with Q5 with aptX enabled.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Beninnzorjp said:


> Thanks for clarifying that - it hasn't been made obvious from all the reviews and posts I've read, it seems mostly described as neutral. Unfortunately the only store that sells it is not open on my day off and they don't stock the AM3B module, so I'm relying on other's opinions.
> Are all the different modules meant to have roughly the same sound signature despite the characteristics of the balanced outputs, or are they designed to sound a bit different?



All AMP modules change the sound in some way, if this is what you're asking. 

Most of them are rather neutral though, just a touch on the warmer side, AM3B is the most warm and thicc of them all

You should read more Audiophile Heaven reviews, I think I insisted especially on how warm and thicc AM3B is throughout my review 

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.com/2018/05/fiio-q5-rule-them-all.html


----------



## Dobrescu George

gto88 said:


> I installed the bluetooth driver on my laptop mentioned earlier, and connect with Q5 with aptX enabled.



Most laptops do have APT-X with the proper drivers installed  

Glad to hear it is working out for you


----------



## scott s (Sep 20, 2018)

Ok. I was using a zte axon mini 7 with a fiio a5 amp. It sounded pretty good with the internal hi fi dac but the phone died. The touch screen just stopped working. Cost more to repair than cost new lol.
So now I have a cheap lg aristo 2 plus. I actually like it better because it has a removable battery. I put my sd card in it and all my hi res is there. I use usb audio player pro.
Question is does anyone here use the aristo with fiio q5. I want to take the plunge lol

Ps. I realize the aristo 2 plus does not have aptx so I will stay hard wired to q5


----------



## Hinomotocho

Dobrescu George said:


> All AMP modules change the sound in some way, if this is what you're asking.
> 
> Most of them are rather neutral though, just a touch on the warmer side, AM3B is the most warm and thicc of them all
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link - great review, covers every aspect you need to know


----------



## Sonic Defender

scott s said:


> Ok. I was using a zte axon mini 7 with a fiio a5 amp. It sounded pretty good with the internal hi fi dac but the phone died. The touch screen just stopped working. Cost more to repair than cost new lol.
> So now I have a cheap lg aristo 2 plus. I actually like it better because it has a removable battery. I put my sd card in it and all my hi res is there. I use usb audio player pro.
> Question is does anyone here use the aristo with fiio q5. I want to take the plunge lol
> 
> Ps. I realize the aristo 2 plus does not have aptx so I will stay hard wired to q5


Well, up until recently I was only able to use the Q5 with AAC and despite that, I thought that the Q5 sounded excellent so as long as the Aristo 2 Plus supports AAC you can still have a great Bluetooth experience. I have read comments from some people who suggest that AAC may be as good or even better than aptX, but I have no opinion one way or the other on that thought as I have never done any blind listening testing myself. The Q5 is a fantastic device so if you are looking for the type of functionality it provides it is an easy recommendation for me to make.


----------



## scott s

I only have flac files. The aristo has bluetooth 4.2 which is sbc??
Anyways I don't care about the bluetooth. I want to play my hi res flac files wired thru usb using usb audio player pro. I know the q5 months ago had issues with some android phones.
I think all I need is an otg micro b to micro b cable??


----------



## Dobrescu George

Beninnzorjp said:


> Thanks for the link - great review, covers every aspect you need to know



Thank you  

I try my best with my reviews  



scott s said:


> I only have flac files. The aristo has bluetooth 4.2 which is sbc??
> Anyways I don't care about the bluetooth. I want to play my hi res flac files wired thru usb using usb audio player pro. I know the q5 months ago had issues with some android phones.
> I think all I need is an otg micro b to micro b cable??



So... I haven't had a single problem with Android phones. I find the Bluetooth really convenient and magical, but I tend to do the OTG route more often. 

Yes, all you need is a compatible OTG cable, the phone should recognize and be able to use it directly. 

I am not sure whether it works with all phones out there, it does work with everything I tested, but those were mostly Samsung and Xiaomi devices as far as smartphones go. It also works with Hiby R6 and FiiO X7mkii (although using X7mkii with it is a little redundant...)


----------



## Sonic Defender

scott s said:


> I only have flac files. The aristo has bluetooth 4.2 which is sbc??
> Anyways I don't care about the bluetooth. I want to play my hi res flac files wired thru usb using usb audio player pro. I know the q5 months ago had issues with some android phones.
> I think all I need is an otg micro b to micro b cable??


The Q5 might still draw from the phone battery. I think you need a specific cable design such as FiiO offers and I think a few posts have suggested other companies also provide a cable that can solve the battery drain issue. I take it that you feel you can hear a difference from a Flac file played over a wired connection versus the same file played over a well done Bluetooth connection. Not my experience so I am personally extremely happy that the Q5 provides Bluetooth. Absolutely happy to say goodbye to cables. Can't wait until there are no more cables for anything in audio, but by then my hearing will be so bad. Sigh.


----------



## scott s

Sonic Defender said:


> The Q5 might still draw from the phone battery. I think you need a specific cable design such as FiiO offers and I think a few posts have suggested other companies also provide a cable that can solve the battery drain issue. I take it that you feel you can hear a difference from a Flac file played over a wired connection versus the same file played over a well done Bluetooth connection. Not my experience so I am personally extremely happy that the Q5 provides Bluetooth. Absolutely happy to say goodbye to cables. Can't wait until there are no more cables for anything in audio, but by then my hearing will be so bad. Sigh.



Yes. I am aware of the special cable needed. I wish my phone had aptx bluetooth. I will still give a listen with the standard bluetooth. I however do hear a difference between a 16/44 flac and 24/96 or 24/192 of the same album though this could be the remastering. I don't consider a 4 inch long otg cable a nuisance on a stacked setup and all my headphones are wired. Using bluetooth headphones defeats any reason to use a q5 anyways as the headphones have their own dac lol


----------



## Sonic Defender

scott s said:


> Yes. I am aware of the special cable needed. I wish my phone had aptx bluetooth. I will still give a listen with the standard bluetooth. I however do hear a difference between a 16/44 flac and 24/96 or 24/192 of the same album though this could be the remastering. I don't consider a 4 inch long otg cable a nuisance on a stacked setup and all my headphones are wired. Using bluetooth headphones defeats any reason to use a q5 anyways as the headphones have their own dac lol


You wouldn't use a Bluetooth headphone with the Q5, it doesn't transmit. The Bluetooth capability is for the source, and yes, almost 100% any difference that was actually perceptible, would certainly be due to re-mastered albums almost always being louder. Louder is typically perceived as sounding better as long as the signal isn't clipped and distorted.


----------



## F700

Beninnzorjp said:


> I've read some opinions that the AM3B is warm sounding. For now I'm using the XBA-Z5 balanced out of my ZX300, is anyone able to please compare the ZX300 with the Q5 w/AM3B? On the occasions I'm at my desk I use an Oppo HA-2 but I'm attracted to the 4.4mm balanced output.


Hello, I am using ZX300 with Z5 in balanced connection (Kimber cable 4.4mm). The AM3B is not very very warm for me, just perfectly analog and musical. Fantastic level of details, actually better than the balanced output from the ZX300, which is really good and powerful, but with a tad less air. If like me you like Electronic, Jazz, Vocalists and OST, you have to try this AM3B module. I have goosebumps all the time listening to my music with that combo. My Sony MDR-Z1R also sounds superb through it, but Z5 is something special.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Sep 24, 2018)

F700 said:


> Hello, I am using ZX300 with Z5 in balanced connection (Kimber cable 4.4mm). The AM3B is not very very warm for me, just perfectly analog and musical. Fantastic level of details, actually better than the balanced output from the ZX300, which is really good and powerful, but with a tad less air. If like me you like Electronic, Jazz, Vocalists and OST, you have to try this AM3B module. I have goosebumps all the time listening to my music with that combo. My Sony MDR-Z1R also sounds superb through it, but Z5 is something special.


Thank you. I really like the Z5 - great sound stage. I'm wanting to take them to another level with an amp/dac and the 4.4mm of the AM3B would make things simple. I'm reading comparisons with the iFi xDSD at the moment.


----------



## F700 (Sep 25, 2018)

Beninnzorjp said:


> Thank you. I really like the Z5 - great sound stage. I'm wanting to take them to another level with an amp/dac and the 4.4mm of the AM3B would make things simple. I'm reading comparisons with the iFi xDSD at the moment.



iFi xDSD has no balanced output, just a 3.5mm if I am not mistaken... But maybe the SE output delivers better sound than the 4.4mm of the Q5, who knows? It would be ideal to try both before making your choice... I have blindly chosen the Q5, because I could have sold it if it haven't matched my expectations, but I am very happy with it. A keeper, definitely. Now, don't expect night and day differences with that kind of devices, changes are subtle in comparison with a good DAP like the ZX300, very subtle sometimes, but they exist anyway, at least for me with the Z5. Please let me know what gear you have purchased at the end...


----------



## Hinomotocho

F700 said:


> iFi xDSD has no balanced output, just a 3.5mm if I am not mistaken... But maybe the SE output delivers better sound than the 4.4mm of the Q5, who knows? It would be ideal to try both before making your choice... I have blindly chosen the Q5, because I could have sold it if it haven't matched my expectations, but I am very happy with it. A keeper, definitely. Now, don't expect night and day differences with that kind of devices, changes are subtle in comparison with a good DAP like the ZX300, very subtle sometimes, but they exist anyway, at least for me with the Z5. Please let me know what gear you have purchased at the end...


As good as the ZX300 is I still find a nice improvement using my Oppo HA-2, so I'm sure I'll have a noticeable improvement whatever I decide on. Ultimately it's about the sound, but there are other factors that also need to be considered. I'll hopefully get to try the Q5 in there near future and hear it for myself, I just find it good to read people's opinions as it can help to keep an open mind - it is easy to get wowed by a new device/different sound only to later notice other aspects that might not suit your tastes.


----------



## Hinomotocho

While reading up on the Q5 I came across a Japanese site that appeared to be selling the Q5 with the AM3B. Is this just their own compiled option or are there now options to purchase with your choice of module?


----------



## scott s

I sure hope they start selling them with the am3b. I am about to get a q5 and really want the am3b


----------



## gto88

Japanese might want to use 4.4mm balance output as it is more popular in Japan, I guess.
I wanted it as that, but it was not an option when I got it.


----------



## Marlowe (Sep 30, 2018)

How much improvement in sound quality could I expect from the Q5 (or, for that matter from the iFi xDSD which I am also considering) over the Fiio Q1 Mk II, that I currently use if (1) I only use the portable amp out of the house with easy to drive IEMs (Campfire Lyra II, iBasso IT03, Sennheiser IE80) with 2.5mm balanced cables and (2) I don't intend to use the Bluetooth function (my 2018 Moto G6 doesn't have aptX, just base BT). I'm retired on a fixed income so it takes a few months to save up for major purchases and my decision is between a Q5 (or xDSD) in October or a full size headphone upgrade for my desktop rig (almost certainly MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Open) in November or December. TBH, the IEMs, particularly the new Lyra IIs, sound great out of the Q1, which has plenty of power for them out of the balanced output; if the Q5 won't get a significant improvement, I'm inclined to go for the headphones.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Marlowe said:


> How much improvement in sound quality could I expect from the Q5 (or, for that matter from the iFi xDSD which I am also considering) over the Fiio Q1 Mk II, that I currently use if (1) I only use the portable amp out of the house with easy to drive IEMs (Campfire Lyra II, iBasso IT03, Sennheiser IE80) with 2.5mm balanced cables and (2) I don't intend to use the Bluetooth function (my 2018 Moto G6 doesn't have aptX, just base BT). I'm retired on a fixed income so it takes a few months to save up for major purchases and my decision is between a Q5 (or xDSD) in October or a full size headphone upgrade for my desktop rig (almost certainly MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Open) in November or December. TBH, the IEMs, particularly the new Lyra IIs, sound great out of the Q1, which has plenty of power for them out of the balanced output; if the Q5 won't get a significant improvement, I'm inclined to go for the headphones.


The headphones would be my choice, frankly. I can't imagine if the Q1 is already driving things well enough that you could notice any obvious sonic improvements.


----------



## stemplar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu6DTewzNUE  
Fiio Q5 - AM3 Amp Unit 2.5mm Balanced Output Noise Level

I'm sorry if the problem above mentioned was already in the forum.
I would like to use Balanced Cable. But it was scared. Thanks for responding.


----------



## Autostart

Hello. I was wondering if anyone is having issues updating/upgrading firmware on their Fiio Q5? I am running Windows 10 Pro. When I try and launch the system firmware upgrade tool package by double clicking "FiiODfu.exe" I get error message " The driver DLL required to access the device is not compatible with this application version ". Then when I move on to updating the Bluetooth firmware I get error message, " The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect. Please see the application event log or use the command-line sxstrace.exe for more detail ". 

I tried this on 2 different computers, both running Win10 Pro and I get the same thing. Am I missing something here and can someone please help me resolve this issue? I sure would appreciate it.

Thanking you in advance

Eric


----------



## voidedsoul (Oct 3, 2018)

Hi, just got the Q5. I use a Pixel 2 XL as my streaming device, is there an app similar to ios to change the filter settings?

Edit: Got the Fiio player beta


----------



## dschultzy327

Has anyone heard the q5 with the CA Atlas or Vega? Trying to decide whether to take the plunge or if it would be overkill.


----------



## Grayven

dschultzy327 said:


> Has anyone heard the q5 with the CA Atlas or Vega? Trying to decide whether to take the plunge or if it would be overkill.


i use it with the Andromeda, i quite like it. over all a very smooth sound.


----------



## natch

I've had my Q5 for three months and yesterday the optical input stopped working. The port itself seems to be fine because line-in (yellow) works. But when it's in optical mode (purple) I get no sound (I checked the cable). I tried resetting but that didn't help. Unless someone has any ideas I think it's time to dig out my receipt and RMA this thing.


----------



## Duncan

Autostart said:


> Hello. I was wondering if anyone is having issues updating/upgrading firmware on their Fiio Q5? I am running Windows 10 Pro. When I try and launch the system firmware upgrade tool package by double clicking "FiiODfu.exe" I get error message " The driver DLL required to access the device is not compatible with this application version ". Then when I move on to updating the Bluetooth firmware I get error message, " The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect. Please see the application event log or use the command-line sxstrace.exe for more detail ".
> 
> I tried this on 2 different computers, both running Win10 Pro and I get the same thing. Am I missing something here and can someone please help me resolve this issue? I sure would appreciate it.
> 
> ...


You need to install the DAC (Windows) drivers which can be sourced from the FiiO website


----------



## Hinomotocho

I've been reading reviews and there is mention of lack of support for android. I have a Samsung S7 that I would occasionally use with it, can anyone comment on any issues that I may experience with this pairing? Is it to do with playback or just lack of support for the app?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Beninnzorjp said:


> I've been reading reviews and there is mention of lack of support for android. I have a Samsung S7 that I would occasionally use with it, can anyone comment on any issues that I may experience with this pairing? Is it to do with playback or just lack of support for the app?



I don't know what that is about, Q5 works really well with both Hiby R6 and Xiaomi Mi Max 2, no issues at all. 

Using Hiby music app BTW


----------



## Hinomotocho

Dobrescu George said:


> I don't know what that is about, Q5 works really well with both Hiby R6 and Xiaomi Mi Max 2, no issues at all.
> 
> Using Hiby music app BTW


It might have been an earlier demo unit review. Another said there is only an app for iPhone, maybe that's what it meant


----------



## Dobrescu George

Beninnzorjp said:


> It might have been an earlier demo unit review. Another said there is only an app for iPhone, maybe that's what it meant



Works flawlessly with most apps, no need to use the FiiO app if you don't want to (?) 

I even used it with VLC with a Samsung Tablet to watch music videos, so I wouldn't worry about compatibility, it really worked well for me (?)


----------



## Hinomotocho

Dobrescu George said:


> Works flawlessly with most apps, no need to use the FiiO app if you don't want to (?)
> 
> I even used it with VLC with a Samsung Tablet to watch music videos, so I wouldn't worry about compatibility, it really worked well for me (?)


I use USB audio player pro, but I think you require the Fiio app to change the settings? ie. Usb/charging port configuration and roll off settings


----------



## Dobrescu George

Beninnzorjp said:


> I use USB audio player pro, but I think you require the Fiio app to change the settings? ie. Usb/charging port configuration and roll off settings



Oh, I never played with those settings, worked like a champ from the start, never needed to fiddle with the settings  

You should be able to do that from a PC as well though (?) 

As for USB Audio Player Pro, I never tried it, but think about it, VLC Media Player, the worst app, works, and Hiby Works, I don't think you will have an issue


----------



## jellofund (Oct 8, 2018)

Beninnzorjp said:


> I use USB audio player pro, but I think you require the Fiio app to change the settings? ie. Usb/charging port configuration and roll off settings



I use USBAPP with my LGV20 with the Q5 and it works perfectly, so if you have used USBAPP with your Note and other USB DACs then I imagine the Q5 will work okay.

The FiiO app is indeed required to change filters, settings, re-assign USB ports etc. but in order to do so the Q5 must be connected via Bluetooth for this to work. No idea why but it is what it is.

The only other 'issue' I have encountered with the Q5 and my phone (and it seems common with Android devices in general) is that with the majority of OTG cables the Q5 will power itself from the phone battery, irrespective of whether the phone is set to charge the Q5 or simply transfer data. The solution is to use one of Fiio's OTG cables which do NOT drain the phone battery. As my phone has a USB C connector I use their CL06 cable but they also do one called ML06 (iirc) for phones that use older-style micro B connectors.


----------



## Hinomotocho

jellofund said:


> I use USBAPP with my LGV20 with the Q5 and it works perfectly, so if you have used USBAPP with your Note and other USB DACs then I imagine the Q5 will work okay.
> 
> The FiiO app is indeed required to change filters, settings, re-assign USB ports etc. but in order to do so the Q5 must be connected via Bluetooth for this to work. No idea why but it is what it is.
> 
> The only other 'issue' I have encountered with the Q5 and my phone (and it seems common with Android devices in general) is that with the majority of OTG cables the Q5 will power itself from the phone battery, irrespective of whether the phone is set to charge the Q5 or simply transfer data. The solution is to use one of Fiio's OTG cables which do NOT drain the phone battery. As my phone has a USB C connector I use their CL06 cable but they also do one called ML06 (iirc) for phones that use older-style micro B connectors.


Thanks for the information - it's good to know these things


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Beninnzorjp said:


> I've been reading reviews and there is mention of lack of support for android. I have a Samsung S7 that I would occasionally use with it, can anyone comment on any issues that I may experience with this pairing? Is it to do with playback or just lack of support for the app?


Android isn't supported officially because: package and docs only mention Apple, an USB OTG cable for Android devices isn't provided in the box, the product wasn't tested with Android because too many implementations (smartphones) are on the market. 
This doesn't mean is not working properly. As long as your phone supports OTG (all current devices do), everything should work fine.
As others have suggested, I recommend UAPP as player, FiiO Music app just for accessing the Q5 settings (FiiO player is still buggy), FiiO ML06 (microUSB on phone side) or CL06 (USB-type C on phone side) OTG cables. Or you can just use it over Bluetooth if you are on-the-go and critical listening isn't required. Audible differences are minimal if any.


----------



## 477621

Hey guys, I have just spent a couple of days slowly reading through these pages. So much info.

I just picked up one of these second hand and it will arrive in the next couple of days. My usage is to use it in front of my iPad Pro and or LG V20 using line out straight to my Graham Slee Solo ULDE. I have seen the DK1 seems to be compatible, has anyone compared the Line Out on top of the Q5 Vs the Line Out on the DK1? Also, is it a true line out or is it affected by the volume control. I guess I will find out the answer to my the Q5 solo questions in the coming days, but I would also be very interested to hear your own experiences especially on the DK1 line out Vs Q5.


----------



## FiiO

Autostart said:


> Hello. I was wondering if anyone is having issues updating/upgrading firmware on their Fiio Q5? I am running Windows 10 Pro. When I try and launch the system firmware upgrade tool package by double clicking "FiiODfu.exe" I get error message " The driver DLL required to access the device is not compatible with this application version ". Then when I move on to updating the Bluetooth firmware I get error message, " The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect. Please see the application event log or use the command-line sxstrace.exe for more detail ".
> 
> I tried this on 2 different computers, both running Win10 Pro and I get the same thing. Am I missing something here and can someone please help me resolve this issue? I sure would appreciate it.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

You could try this method mentioned by other user:


Currawong said:


> I tried on another machine, with a completely fresh Windows 10 install (which may now be part of the problem) and now I get, for the DFU Wizard (which is from 2014) _"The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect."
> _
> I found a solution: Download BlueSuite from here: http://www.kcwirefree.com/docs/BlueSuite_2.6.2.zip, install it, and then select the firmware to upgrade with through the installed DFUWizard.



Or use a 32bit computer for try again.

Best regards


----------



## corgifall

So I just got the AM3B for my q5 and I've been listening to it non stop. Been 3 days and man does it pump the bass into my modded z7's. Sounds really good without losing the mids and high quality wise and it has less that a ohm outputting to my iems in 3.5 though I hear no hiss via the 2.5 to 4.4 adapter when using my z7 or iems. Super impressed! Good job Fiio!


----------



## Currawong

FiiO said:


> Or use a 32bit computer for try again.



Seriously, that's a very customer-unfriendly reply. My phone is 64-bit. My watch probably is too. Are you going to tell customers "Sorry, you can only use our software with old computers"? Not to mention that the software required for firmware updates HAS a 64-bit compatible version available. Why aren't you offering that?

A good future aim when designing your products is exemplified by the maker of the FIIL Bluetooth headphones. They have a smartphone app for both iOS and Android that allows you to update the firmware wirelessly from within the app.


----------



## 477621

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> You could try this method mentioned by other user:
> 
> ...





TheCatnipMouse said:


> Hey guys, I have just spent a couple of days slowly reading through these pages. So much info.
> 
> I just picked up one of these second hand and it will arrive in the next couple of days. My usage is to use it with my iPad Pro and or LG V20 using line out straight to my Graham Slee Solo ULDE. I have seen the DK1 seems to be compatible, has anyone compared the Line Out on top of the Q5 Vs the Line Out on the DK1? Also, is it a true line out or is it affected by the volume control. I guess I will find out the answer to my the Q5 solo questions in the coming days, but I would also be very interested to hear your own experiences especially on the DK1 line out Vs Q5.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

FiiO said:


> Or use a 32bit computer for try again.


Had no issues with Win 7 x64 Ent.


----------



## 477621 (Oct 10, 2018)

To anyone else who wondered about the line out. I now have the Q5. The filter switches and volume control appear to be disabled so it is a true line out. Happy Mouse.

Now to look in to the DK1 to see if the line out is the same quality.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 10, 2018)

Has anyone compared it already? V30 decodes and Q5 is only "amplifier (line input) or Q5 decodes (usb / UAPP) for V30 (Qad Sabre)? or Q 5 (Dual AK) is better? With MQA / DSD, I think the V30 is better (I think) (but I'm clearly listening to an HD 660 S (150 ohm), the Q5 power itself is much stronger. (On the other hand, UAPP inverts DSD to 24 bits in USB mode.)
But for an HD 650 (300 Ohm), do I need AM5 amplifier module?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

stemplar said:


> Has anyone compared it already? V30 decodes and Q5 is only "amplifier (line input) or Q5 decodes (usb / UAPP) for V30 (Qad Sabre)? or Q 5 (Dual AK) is better? With MQA / DSD, I think the V30 is better (I think) (but I'm clearly listening to an HD 660 S (150 ohm), the Q5 power itself is much stronger. (On the other hand, UAPP inverts DSD to 24 bits in USB mode.)
> But for an HD 650 (300 Ohm), do I need AM5 amplifier module?


There is no "better".


----------



## stemplar (Oct 11, 2018)

Okay. I agree, but is the situation with Tidal MQA decoding? The V30 knows Q5 does not know,
Ps. Anyway, I read your presentation about Q5 and helped me pick it up and not HE2se 
One more question . You wrote that you used it in balanced mode. I found a distinct difference between the Fiio F9pro / se HD 660S balanced positive. Placebo can be? 

hello


----------



## KopaneDePooj

stemplar said:


> Okay. I agree, but is the situation with Tidal MQA decoding? The V30 knows Q5 does not know,
> Ps. Anyway, I read your presentation about Q5 and helped me pick it up and not HE2se
> One more question . You wrote that you used it in balanced mode. I found a distinct difference between the Fiio F9pro / se HD 660S balanced positive. Placebo can be?
> 
> hello


If you're referring to me, I didn't use the Q5 in balanced mode during my review, just briefly afterwards when I had the FiiO FH1. Except for the stronger power output I found no difference between balanced and single ended.


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> If you're referring to me, I didn't use the Q5 in balanced mode during my review, just briefly afterwards when I had the FiiO FH1. Except for the stronger power output I found no difference between balanced and single ended.


----
Ok thank you for the answer.
Although the question about MQA vs V30 remains, as well as the fact that the DSD can be decoded by the V30, Q5 does not. Also, DSD, only, from PC.


----------



## gto88

stemplar said:


> ----
> Ok thank you for the answer.
> Although the question about MQA vs V30 remains, as well as the fact that the DSD can be decoded by the V30, Q5 does not. Also, DSD, only, from PC.


Did I read you right that Q5 cannot decode DSD? It does when it connects with USB.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 11, 2018)

gto88 said:


> Did I read you right that Q5 cannot decode DSD? It does when it connects with USB.


I wrote that LG V30 - USB - Q5, can not decode it.(Maximum converts to 24 bits see UAPP)
But the LG V30 can also decode (MQA) so if line input is used, I will further amplify the DSD / MQA signal. Of course, if the PC / Foobar / ASIO connection is Q5, decoding is possible.


----------



## gto88

stemplar said:


> I wrote that LG V30 - USB - Q5, can not decode it.


I see, I guess that depends on how you setup LG V30.
You need to let LG V30 uses Q5 as external decoder, otherwise it will send decoded signals to Q5.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 12, 2018)

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Had no issues with Win 7 x64 Ent.



Do not be angry  Who is using Win 7 in 2018 ???
This is really funny help like this. I also have the same DLL missing the Win 10 proof 64 bit, and the BT installation is also unsuccessful. Now the Fiio Q5 is a very good one. why install a Win7NT? Do not you think so seriously? I find a solution to this. There is a Radsone Earstudio E-100 BT for the dac / amp.
They have an exemplary installer program / support ..
The Q5 BT firmware  installs side USB..System Firmware installs lower USB, DLL hunting. That's uncomfortable. Why can not it be done with a standard full installer?
-------------------
edit: The BT firmware in 32 bit Win 10 done . But for Sytem Firmware i need to get a win7 (max sytemFirmware tools compatible: max win 8): this would be nice to win up to 10
would you mind?
edit 2 :
after trying on another 2 Win7 machines. None of them willing to install the Q5 System Upgrade Tools  It looks for a DLL but does not indicate which DLL.
Someone could possibly help? Maybe for the Fiio is sometimes a colleague here?


----------



## stemplar

LG V30 usb DsD playback on USB for Fiio Q5.
Q5 decodes (green DSD lights up), but only with FiioMusic, with UAPP, it will also play in bit perfect mode.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 18, 2018)

One question: Does someone Fiio Q5 use the HD650? Balanced cable is added, with HD660s (balanced) FLAC silent for approx. 40-50% is enough for him.
The amplifier module is Am3a (540mW), but there is also an AM5 mosul which also has 800Mw, but it is not balanced out, it's just unbalanced. Thanks for the reply .
.............
edit : Meanwhile, the Hd650 came.(DSD) The performance of FiiO Q5 seems pretty, but in the balanced mode the real (this is also HD660S )
approx. -20% minus 660s in balanced volume mode.

edit 2 : AM3B + 100 mW more pover .
This is already enough for the HD650(for the DSD) and can stay in the balanced mode. A 2.5 to 4.4 mm translator works well too.


----------



## guitardave

Currawong said:


> Seriously, that's a very customer-unfriendly reply. My phone is 64-bit. My watch probably is too. Are you going to tell customers "Sorry, you can only use our software with old computers"? Not to mention that the software required for firmware updates HAS a 64-bit compatible version available. Why aren't you offering that?
> 
> A good future aim when designing your products is exemplified by the maker of the FIIL Bluetooth headphones. They have a smartphone app for both iOS and Android that allows you to update the firmware wirelessly from within the app.



Yes and this would be a key differentiator from a key competitor, iBasso, which actually seems to recommend flashing your new dx200 to remove their system and replace it with a 3rd party os.  What are they thinking??  Who wants to take a chance with a new product shipped from China?  I have a dx200 which I had my IT guy flash, but of course now there is an update...  I would not buy any product again that is such a pain in the butt to update.  I do have a Q5, and am a Mac guy, so I guess it will be another IT guy job on my office pc if I want the update.


----------



## 477621

TheCatnipMouse said:


> I have seen the DK1 seems to be compatible, has anyone compared the Line Out on top of the Q5 Vs the Line Out on the DK1? Also, is it a true line out or is it affected by the volume control. I guess I will find out the answer to my the Q5 solo questions in the coming days, but I would also be very interested to hear your own experiences especially on the DK1 line out Vs Q5.


For anyone else who is interested. Line out on Q5 is not affected by volume control which is perfect for my needs.

However, the DK1 is not compatible with the Q5 contrary to what is written previously in this thread. Docking it will charge, but lightning to micro doesn't work, sound continues to play through iDevice. Hey ho returned the DK1 and bought a magnetic micro usb cable for charging convenience.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

stemplar said:


> Who is using Win 7 in 2018 ???


Most of professional users in offices, no need to upgrade until it does the job.


----------



## GotchaPine007 (Oct 24, 2018)

Did anyone find a solution yet for the Firmware update under Windows 10? I'm having the DLL error issue.


----------



## stemplar

GotchaPine007 said:


> Did anyone find a solution yet for the Firmware update under Windows 10? I'm having the DLL error issue.


The problem is that I tried two other PCs (Win7) and DLL errors.
Our FiiO man, who used to be here, does not answer. But I like this stuff anyway. AM3B is balanced with Valhalla itself.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Oct 25, 2018)

Just ordered the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD6XX and I'm eager to try it with my Q5... Couldn't wait until it arrives to ask you guys about this pairing 
At medium 70dB listening levels, will the Q5 / AM3A be enough for it? Is SE enough on high gain, or balanced will be a must?
I'm worried mostly about if it will be well driven, effortless and proper on the impedance spike frequencies (bass region) because I read that this is problematic with amps that don't put enough voltage there.
So not worried about the overall loudness, but the evenness and proper driving of the entire frequency range / not struggling and becoming harsh/shouty.
What's your real-life experience with 300 Ohm Senns & Q5 vs decent desktop amps on medium volume / loudness?


----------



## stemplar (Oct 25, 2018)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Just ordered the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD6XX and I'm eager to try it with my Q5... Couldn't wait until it arrives to ask you guys about this pairing
> At medium 70dB listening levels, will the Q5 / AM3A be enough for it? Is SE enough on high gain, or balanced will be a must?
> I'm worried mostly about if it will be well driven, effortless and proper on the impedance spike frequencies (bass region) because I read that this is problematic with amps that don't put enough voltage there.
> So not worried about the overall loudness, but the evenness and proper driving of the entire frequency range / not struggling and becoming harsh/shouty.
> What's your real-life experience with 300 Ohm Senns & Q5 vs decent desktop amps on medium volume / loudness?



With the Sen HD660S it's a good one! balanced cable. Then I bought an HD650. That's the limit. That's why I bought an AM3B module (that is, with the compliant cable the existing balanced cables can be used with the 4.4-inch Pentacon out FiiO LL-4,4M) I have to say that the + 100mW is worth a lot (being stronger(in balanced) than the AM5!( in unbalanced ) Am3B 300ohm-70mW vs. Am5 300 ohm 55mW ((AM3A 300 ohm 63 mW )), HD650 (which is not only high impedance but also less sensitivity than the HD600) So there is a solution, beautiful music, .. but .. the cost of the development. I use this 8 core silver platted balanced cable. 
https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/114157.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-HD6XX-HD580-HD600-HD650-HD660s-8-core-SP-OCC-braided-upgrade-cable/232948989720?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

ps. In DsD, in 24 bit FLAC and in Tidal, the balanced cable for the AM3A is needed.
But much stronger and more dynamic is also balanced with the AM3B, if you only hear FLAC, then "maybe enough for the HD650 is AM3A .."
In total:
1, buy a balanced cable for HDXX (you will need it) 
((The 8-core SP-OCC balanced cable(mavismodz) is heaven and earth, even when it comes to the standard HD660S 4,4 Pentaconn balanced cable, it is highly recommended))
2, if enough dynamics and rollers, etc. you still have to buy AM3B.


----------



## Chorak290

KopaneDePooj said:


> Just ordered the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD6XX and I'm eager to try it with my Q5... Couldn't wait until it arrives to ask you guys about this pairing
> At medium 70dB listening levels, will the Q5 / AM3A be enough for it? Is SE enough on high gain, or balanced will be a must?
> I'm worried mostly about if it will be well driven, effortless and proper on the impedance spike frequencies (bass region) because I read that this is problematic with amps that don't put enough voltage there.
> So not worried about the overall loudness, but the evenness and proper driving of the entire frequency range / not struggling and becoming harsh/shouty.
> What's your real-life experience with 300 Ohm Senns & Q5 vs decent desktop amps on medium volume / loudness?




You're gonna need the balanced cable. I use 6XX on Q5 and it works well balanced but not se.


----------



## GotchaPine007

Thanks again


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Thanks all! Will buy *this* balanced 2.5mm cable and stay with the AM3A module for now.
Or do you know of other affordable cable alternative to buy in Europe?


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> Thanks all! Will buy *this* balanced 2.5mm cable and stay with the AM3A module for now.
> Or do you know of other affordable cable alternative to buy in Europe?


Unfortunately I did not find it cheaper either. Which arrives in 1 week. (which I have included only two of them already. ebay) Unless you want to buy a $ 200 tuning cable


----------



## 477621

Wouldn't something like this




 

Allow you to use existing 3.5mm cables but benefit from extra power from balanced out?

I have one on the way, I use my Q5 as line out primarily but in theory that should give the extra power to 3.5


----------



## stemplar

TheCatnipMouse said:


> Wouldn't something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it will not be good because the whole symmetric connection is different.


----------



## oopsydaisy

Or use a 32bit computer for try again.
[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> This is pretty ridiculous in 2018, not to mention that I already have to run a VM because I'm on a mac and there's no updater for that OS. So basically, I can't upgrade this device. Get your act together, Fiio


----------



## KopaneDePooj

TheCatnipMouse said:


> Wouldn't something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, but I think it's not worth it, as long as you'll use the balanced port, better add $5 more for that cable I posted and have a true balanced connection, even if the extra benefits besides more power are only in theory 
Plus the existing 3.5 jack + that adapter are bulkier and prone to damage.


----------



## Blotto80

I built a balanced cable for my LCD-2 over the weekend and I'm pretty impressed with what this little guy can do with the AM3A. I had bought it primarily for my IEMs and to use as an optical DAC out from the xbox into my Mobius via line out but with my priorities shifting of late and mobility is a bigger concern, I may retire my desktop amp in favour of the slight hit I take with the LCD-2 into the Q5.


----------



## thirtyCruisers

Hi everyone.
Will the q5 with the stock amp be able to drive a pair of dt770 250 ohm or, say, a fostex t40rp/t50rp? If not, what about the am5?
 I looked through the thread and found only a little info abot the fostex, stating it is decent but not perfect for the task. Did anyone else try the q5 with either of the headphones? 
Thanks!


----------



## Grayven

i use the balanced connection with my ZMF Blackwoods and it drives it fine.


----------



## kukkurovaca

thirtyCruisers said:


> Hi everyone.
> Will the q5 with the stock amp be able to drive a pair of dt770 250 ohm or, say, a fostex t40rp/t50rp? If not, what about the am5?
> I looked through the thread and found only a little info abot the fostex, stating it is decent but not perfect for the task. Did anyone else try the q5 with either of the headphones?
> Thanks!



I don't have the Q5, but based on specs, I would expect the single-ended output of Q5 to be a little anemic for the T50RP/etc.

AM5 should have no problem, however.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 31, 2018)

kukkurovaca said:


> I don't have the Q5, but based on specs, I would expect the single-ended output of Q5 to be a little anemic for the T50RP/etc.
> 
> AM5 should have no problem, however.


 since I have Q5 : Am3B 300ohm-70mW (balanced)  vs. Am5 300 ohm 55mW (only unbalanced)((AM3A 300 ohm 63 mW (balanced) )) I bought the AM3B for the + 7mW and it was worth it, the HD650, which is hard to drive. It is not anemic, it can drive with great dynamics.


----------



## Lay. (Oct 31, 2018)

I bought the AM3B for the 4.4mm pentaconn. In my opinion both AM3A and AM3B can drive HD800S quite nicely with balanced out, but AM3B has slightly warmer sound which I like.

AM3A and 24mW 300ohm from single ended out is not enough for harder to drive headphones.


----------



## fgfgfg0923 (Oct 31, 2018)

To improve the SQ dramatically - do the thing.
OPA1642 is the trash for LPF


Spoiler


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Hi @FiiO ! How's it going?

Is there really no way to be able to use one of the USB ports for digital signal only, and NO charging? Since we have two ports?
I use my Q5 80% of the time at my work desk, connected to my PC, so it's always charging. I use Bluetooth maybe 1 to 1.5 hours/day, and my battery is always between 90% - 100% which is NOT very good.
I would like to have longer discharge cycles, so I would like to be able to switch off charging completely while connected to PC. 
At least can it be done using a special cable or adapter with my PC, the same way as your OTG cable for smartphones that is not charging the Q5?


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> Hi @FiiO ! How's it going?
> 
> Is there really no way to be able to use one of the USB ports for digital signal only, and NO charging? Since we have two ports?
> I use my Q5 80% of the time at my work desk, connected to my PC, so it's always charging. I use Bluetooth maybe 1 to 1.5 hours/day, and my battery is always between 90% - 100% which is NOT very good.
> ...



Works with IOS, not on Android. However, the factory Fiio (!) OTG cable consumes only max 180-200 mAmp, I do not know what to do with the LG V30. (5 hours of silent listening 10%) (I bought a Cable Selecion OTG cable which in turn  In vain, better quality, gold-plated. But ..1800-2000! MAmp was consumed ..So no matter what OTG cable you are using. At the same time, the side USB can be used nicely in use, even from the power bank.


----------



## stemplar

fgfgfg0923 said:


> To improve the SQ dramatically - do the thing.
> OPA1642 is the trash for LPF
> 
> 
> Spoiler


And what? Are you replacing something right?


----------



## fgfgfg0923

stemplar said:


> And what? Are you replacing something right?


MUSES8832, you can check stock photos under the spoiler


----------



## KopaneDePooj

stemplar said:


> Works with IOS, not on Android. However, the factory Fiio (!) OTG cable consumes only max 180-200 mAmp, I do not know what to do with the LG V30. (5 hours of silent listening 10%) (I bought a Cable Selecion OTG cable which in turn  In vain, better quality, gold-plated. But ..1800-2000! MAmp was consumed ..So no matter what OTG cable you are using. At the same time, the side USB can be used nicely in use, even from the power bank.


I think you missed the meaning of my post. I don't care about IOS or Android or OTG, I was just asking it there is a possibility to completely switch off charging WHEN I USE THE Q5 WITH MY PC, so that my battery can discharge longer, and reach for example 30-40% and not always stay between 90-100% as is the case with my usage pattern.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

KopaneDePooj said:


> I think you missed the meaning of my post. I don't care about IOS or Android or OTG, I was just asking it there is a possibility to completely switch off charging WHEN I USE THE Q5 WITH MY PC, so that my battery can discharge longer, and reach for example 30-40% and not always stay between 90-100% as is the case with my usage pattern.


Unsolder USB power leg in AM3A, one usb data only, one charging only


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Oct 31, 2018)

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Unsolder USB power leg in AM3A, one usb data only, one charging only


Thanks, but I'm not comfortable with such drastic solutions 

And now I found that it can't be done, according to this page:
https://cambrionix.com/faq/can-i-sync-transfer-usb-data-without-charging/

"Due to the requirements of the USB specification (available from USB.org) it is not possible to maintain a data connection to a USB device without the presence of the USB VBUS voltage. With USB, VBUS (5V from the host cable) must be connected to the downstream device even if it is self-powered."


----------



## fgfgfg0923

KopaneDePooj said:


> Thanks, but I'm not comfortable with such drastic solutions
> 
> And now I found that it can't be done, according to this page:
> https://cambrionix.com/faq/can-i-sync-transfer-usb-data-without-charging/
> ...


Well, I know that 3-wire connection works for OTG, Post #437


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Oct 31, 2018)

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Well, I know that 3-wire connection works for OTG, Post #437


Then maybe a custom cable for PC that mimics the OTG design?

Later edit : Some more on this : http://www.yourfinalsystem.com/cable-design-f-a-q/147-how-do-data-only-usb-cables-work


----------



## Blotto80

fgfgfg0923 said:


> MUSES8832, you can check stock photos under the spoiler



Can you elaborate on the differences you're experiencing from the Opamp swap?


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> I think you missed the meaning of my post. I don't care about IOS or Android or OTG, I was just asking it there is a possibility to completely switch off charging WHEN I USE THE Q5 WITH MY PC, so that my battery can discharge longer, and reach for example 30-40% and not always stay between 90-100% as is the case with my usage pattern.


Yes, now I understand what your problem is. But, in my opinion, the battery does not suffer much damage.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 31, 2018)

fgfgfg0923 said:


> MUSES8832, you can check stock photos under the spoiler



And if I can ask? There is an audible difference between OPA vs. MUSES? If you could explain it more.
On the other hand, I think the guarantee is jumping ..
I'm listening to the HD660S / HD650 (just in balance), in this price / service / development (amplifier modules, etc.) I'm very happy with the Q5. I tried the HD660S with a Chord Mojo, something was very crappy.
But the HD650 is better with Mojo.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

MUSES much more natural, precision and warm sound (I guess with AM3B it will be almost HM-60X warmth )
Wider and deeper soundstage (more "airy" sound), more details, I'm not really specialist to describe the sound but it just outbeats 1642 in everything.
If not MUSES than at least OPA1612 must be installed, used to experience the same with HiFi-M8 and Mini-M8: OPA1662 -> OPA1612 do much better SQ.

No idea how do you do guys but here in Russia we have several mods for Fiio AM1 and AM3A amps which are also nothing to discuss about their SQ compared to stock ones (MUSES8920 + OPA1622 + new PSU)


----------



## stemplar (Oct 31, 2018)

fgfgfg0923 said:


> MUSES much more natural, precision and warm sound (I guess with AM3B it will be almost HM-60X warmth )
> Wider and deeper soundstage (more "airy" sound), more details, I'm not really specialist to describe the sound but it just outbeats 1642 in everything.
> If not MUSES than at least OPA1612 must be installed, used to experience the same with HiFi-M8 and Mini-M8: OPA1662 -> OPA1612 do much better SQ.
> 
> No idea how do you do guys but here in Russia we have several mods for Fiio AM1 and AM3A amps which are also nothing to discuss about their SQ compared to stock ones (MUSES8920 + OPA1622 + new PSU)


I understand. Thanks for the reply. I have AM3B now. It's really warmer, thicker and wider than the stock AM3A. It may be due to the balanced mode too. I bought the HD650 because it needed more power and it was +7 mW (300 ohm) . This point is enough for the DsD / 24Bit Flac to sound better. OPA926 is in it.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

stemplar said:


> OPA926 is in it.


AM3A = AM3B in terms of used schematic and opamps. The difference is in power section and PCB layout.


----------



## kukkurovaca

stemplar said:


> since I have Q5 : Am3B 300ohm-70mW (balanced)  vs. Am5 300 ohm 55mW (only unbalanced)((AM3A 300 ohm 63 mW (balanced) )) I bought the AM3B for the + 7mW and it was worth it, the HD650, which is hard to drive. It is not anemic, it can drive with great dynamics.



Unless thirtyCruisers gets a modded T50RP/T40RP, that's a single-ended headphone.


----------



## thirtyCruisers

Well, a modded is out of reach for me for now. I was only going to buy some pads. However if the balanced mod can be done easily enough, might try doing that. 
 Anyway, thanks to everyone who replied.


----------



## stemplar (Oct 31, 2018)

kukkurovaca said:


> Unless thirtyCruisers gets a modded T50RP/T40RP, that's a single-ended headphone.


FiiO M9 is also interesting. All serious gain! + 7mW compared to Q5 AM3B. (70 mW balanced)
The M9: *≥77mW (300Ω / THD + N <1% ... khmm (in balanced)*
SoC: Samsung Exynos 7270, DAC: AK4490EN * 2, FPGA: A3P030, LPF: OPA1612, BUF: OPA1622 * 2
Bluetooth chip: SAMSUNG S5N5C10B01-6330
Could this have been supposed to wait?


----------



## fgfgfg0923

kukkurovaca said:


> that's a single-ended headphone.


I have T20RPmk3 with hybrid pads from HM5, custom headband (like massdrop did) and re-wired cups with angled 3.5 TRRS in the left one with Sony pin-out.
I have balanced 2.5mm cable and RSA for Mini-M8, both Q5 with AM3A and Mini-M8 do the well job with Fostex (Centrance do much better) but they clearly suck compared to SE of my Xonar One.


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> Hi @FiiO ! How's it going?
> 
> Is there really no way to be able to use one of the USB ports for digital signal only, and NO charging? Since we have two ports?
> I use my Q5 80% of the time at my work desk, connected to my PC, so it's always charging. I use Bluetooth maybe 1 to 1.5 hours/day, and my battery is always between 90% - 100% which is NOT very good.
> ...


Dear friend,

When using as a DAC for computer, Q5 use the power supply from USB port and meanwhile the computer will charge the Q5. 
If the Q5 is not charged and using the battery from the Q5 only when working as DAC, the Q5 would power off while it is out of battery. And you would need to charge it before using as the USB DAC again. This is not some users prefer and we could not satisfy all the need for all users. 
Besides, in this case it can ensure that the battery may be fully charged while at the same time guaranteeing proper function of the device.  We may not consider about changing this at present.  

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Nov 2, 2018)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> When using as a DAC for computer, Q5 use the power supply from USB port and meanwhile the computer will charge the Q5.
> If the Q5 is not charged and using the battery from the Q5 only when working as DAC, the Q5 would power off while it is out of battery. And you would need to charge it before using as the USB DAC again. This is not some users prefer and we could not satisfy all the need for all users.
> ...



I was thinking about a switch in settings not a permanent modification. Yes, sometimes I want to charge when I'm playing music at PC, but not always.
Besides, we have a second USB port specifically for charging, so I don't see why not make the setting more flexible as I described.


----------



## 477621

stemplar said:


> I think it will not be good because the whole symmetric connection is different.


It works. Sound is noticeably stronger than 3.5. Checked with a multimeter and connections as expected.



KopaneDePooj said:


> Yes, but I think it's not worth it, as long as you'll use the balanced port, better add $5 more for that cable I posted and have a true balanced connection, even if the extra benefits besides more power are only in theory
> Plus the existing 3.5 jack + that adapter are bulkier and prone to damage.


I use my Q5 as line out only, I just wanted to try this. My headphone amp is my Slee.


----------



## stemplar

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> When using as a DAC for computer, Q5 use the power supply from USB port and meanwhile the computer will charge the Q5.
> If the Q5 is not charged and using the battery from the Q5 only when working as DAC, the Q5 would power off while it is out of battery. And you would need to charge it before using as the USB DAC again. This is not some users prefer and we could not satisfy all the need for all users.
> ...



Dear FiiO!
Are you here (?) I have a bigger problem. With a couple of pages he was described as backward as I did. System Uprgrade Win Installer Does Not Work !!
  (the BT installer did, though it did save only on Win10 / 32, not 64)
Win10 / 8/7 64/32 bit. All in all, DLL sends a bug, anyway, only max win 8 is compatible with the installer .. Please look at this if someone has worked with FiiO. Thank you for responding,
(many of them are interesting for the future. Other than that, I have a very good opinion on the equipment itself.) THX


----------



## fgfgfg0923

*Windows 7 x64*​


----------



## soundquality12

Is the battery replaceable? I have not seen any yet. Cost and ease of?


----------



## fgfgfg0923

soundquality12 said:


> Is the battery replaceable? I have not seen any yet. Cost and ease of?


----------



## stemplar

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> When using as a DAC for computer, Q5 use the power supply from USB port and meanwhile the computer will charge the Q5.
> If the Q5 is not charged and using the battery from the Q5 only when working as DAC, the Q5 would power off while it is out of battery. And you would need to charge it before using as the USB DAC again. This is not some users prefer and we could not satisfy all the need for all users.
> ...



Dear FiiO!
Are you here (?) I have a bigger problem. With a couple of pages he was described as backward as I did. System Uprgrade Win Installer Does Not Work !!
  (the BT installer did, though it did save only on Win10 / 32, not 64)
Win10 / 8/7 64/32 bit. All in all, DLL sends a bug, anyway, only max win 8 is compatible with the installer .. Please look at this if someone has worked with FiiO. Thank you for responding,
(many of them are interesting for the future. Other than that, I have a very good opinion on the equipment itself.)


fgfgfg0923 said:


> *Windows 7 x64*​



Thanks, the "exhaustive" pictures. i tried win7 at 32 bits 64 bit win7 unfortunately not in my environment. But my question is recurring: who is in 2018 using win 7? ..


----------



## stemplar (Nov 3, 2018)

The FiiO music player has been updated. They've improved a few things I see. Maybe the bug is less.
So far, "coarse" clicks were on DSD number switching, now it seems like this has disappeared. It was a bit more liquid. Already approaching "Hiby" (which is not flawless).


----------



## soundquality12

So the battery is not replaceable.
Is any of you folks batteries dead or dying?
Guess on battery longevity before the unit is junk!
Thank you.


----------



## soundquality12

When will the am3b amp come with the FiiO Q5? Not the am3a.


----------



## stemplar

soundquality12 said:


> When will the am3b amp come with the FiiO Q5? Not the am3a.


I bought the AM3B (70mW 300 ohms).
It was a suffix for the HD650.
Balanced is stronger than the AM5. (55mW 300 ohms)


----------



## SteveNZ

Any way to query the firmware(s) currently on the device?

Does Fiio have dates as to when firmwares were released and/or changelogs without trawling forums?


----------



## stemplar

SteveNZ said:


> Any way to query the firmware(s) currently on the device?
> 
> Does Fiio have dates as to when firmwares were released and/or changelogs without trawling forums?


I know you can only see the Firmware version if you have installed System Tools. But I (and others) can not install it. I did not get a reply from FiiO merchant, but .. no reaction .. (anyway it works, but it does not hurt if it works ..) Unfortunately, software fronts are not as creative as hardware.


----------



## FiiO

SteveNZ said:


> Any way to query the firmware(s) currently on the device?
> 
> Does Fiio have dates as to when firmwares were released and/or changelogs without trawling forums?


Dear friend,
You could check the current firmware using the FiiO DAC driver, the iphone or the MAC:








Improvement in 0.52: 
1. Fixed the issue where the "Sharp Roll-Off Filter" and the "Short delay Sharp Roll-Off Filter" settings were reversed;
2. Fixed the issue where the device would not charge when the Side USB port was set as data port. 

Best regards


----------



## soundquality12

I am asking these questions due to not finding answers yet. 
Fiio Q5 
Is the battery replaceable?
How many years is the battery good for?
Cost of replacement battery?
Does it make a big difference when listening to iTunes on a iPhone connected to studio monitor speakers?
Or even $200 earbuds?
Thank you.


----------



## stemplar

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> You could check the current firmware using the FiiO DAC driver, the iphone or the MAC:
> 
> 
> ...



Thank You. And really there is the firmware version. (and the latest) 

 
But  if there is an upgrade, how do I put it on win if systemtools do not want to install on 4 kinds of PCs? I would also like to respond with this respect.
best regards .


----------



## FiiO

soundquality12 said:


> I am asking these questions due to not finding answers yet.
> Fiio Q5
> Is the battery replaceable?
> How many years is the battery good for?
> ...


Dear friend,

The battery of the Q5 is not replaceable one. You would need to disassemble the Q5 for replacing the battery.
The battery life is also depended on the daily using of the Q5.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

stemplar said:


> Thank You. And really there is the firmware version. (and the latest)
> 
> 
> But  if there is an upgrade, how do I put it on win if systemtools do not want to install on 4 kinds of PCs? I would also like to respond with this respect.
> best regards .


Dear friend,

If you are using the latest firmware version, you don't need to update the firmware again. Currently, we don't have new firmware for the Q5 as well.
The firmware update tool is only available in Windows computer. You could check whether you have downloaded the correct DAC driver and the correct tool.
If you receive the information like'_"The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect."_' , you could download BlueSuite from here: http://www.kcwirefree.com/docs/BlueSuite_2.6.2.zip, and try again. 

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Nov 8, 2018)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Just ordered the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD6XX and I'm eager to try it with my Q5... Couldn't wait until it arrives to ask you guys about this pairing
> At medium 70dB listening levels, will the Q5 / AM3A be enough for it? Is SE enough on high gain, or balanced will be a must?
> I'm worried mostly about if it will be well driven, effortless and proper on the impedance spike frequencies (bass region) because I read that this is problematic with amps that don't put enough voltage there.
> So not worried about the overall loudness, but the evenness and proper driving of the entire frequency range / not struggling and becoming harsh/shouty.
> What's your real-life experience with 300 Ohm Senns & Q5 vs decent desktop amps on medium volume / loudness?



Answering my own question here... 
My HD 6XX arrived a few days ago. Amazing headphones!
I don't know how much "better" would they sound with a different Q5 amp module or a desktop amp, but for me they have enough juice and authority in high gain around 12:00 - 13:00 o'clock position on the volume knob. That's loud enough for me. Plenty volume and overhead left. And that's single ended with the stock AM3A module. No need for balanced connection, but I'm still getting that balanced cable just out of curiosity. I guess I won't find any differences in sound quality. I'm very content with how the Q5 and HD 6XX sound together. I'm not missing anything in any frequency region. Superb bass, mids and treble.


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> Answering my own question here...
> My HD 6XX arrived a few days ago. Amazing headphones!
> I don't know how much "better" would they sound with a different Q5 amp module or a desktop amp, but for me they have enough juice and authority in high gain around 12:00 - 13:00 o'clock position on the volume knob. That's loud enough for me. Plenty volume and overhead left. And that's single ended with the stock AM3A module. No need for balanced connection, but I'm still getting that balanced cable just out of curiosity. I guess I won't find any differences in sound quality. I'm very content with how the Q5 and HD 6XX sound together. I'm not missing anything in any frequency region. Superb bass, mids and treble.



"That's nice when the orphan whispers .. But the dwarf does not shout. . "Listening at the same volume, more dynamic, more balanced music balanced out ..
I'm still listening to the (Litle) Sony MDR-1AM2 with the 4,4 pentaconne balanced cable, with a lot more details. The HD660 / 650 also. ((but this is my opinion))


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Nov 12, 2018)

I used an optical cable for the 1st time with the Q5, and the 3.5mm mini toslink adapter that goes into the Q5 connector doesn't snap (click) into place the same way a regular 3.5 jack does in the other ports. So the connector is a bit loose and the optical cable comes out easily. What's your experience with this port?


----------



## FiiO

KopaneDePooj said:


> I used an optical cable for the 1st time with the Q5, and the 3.5mm mini toslink adapter that goes into the Q5 connector doesn't snap (click) into place the same way a regular 3.5 jack does in the other ports. So the connector is a bit loose and the optical cable comes out easily. What's your experience with this port?


Dear friend,

Does the sound output correctly? Maybe it is because the 3.5mm optical port doesn't have rings like the 3.5mm headphone port?

Best regards


----------



## KopaneDePooj

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Does the sound output correctly? Maybe it is because the 3.5mm optical port doesn't have rings like the 3.5mm headphone port?
> 
> Best regards



Sound is good, but the jack is not locked into the connector. No click or snap as with normal jack. Also tried in the same connector the coax adapter that came with the Q5. It is also loose, it does slightly snap but very anemic.
Is not the rings that do the lock, it is the conical tip that is present in regular 3.5 jack as well as the mini toslink. Can you try connecting the mini toslink, see how it behaves?


----------



## Wesbound (Nov 13, 2018)

Is it possibile to use the iPod/iPhone dac when connected to Q5? I would pick the A5 but don’t want to get in trouble with cables...i just need more volume/power output. Thanks
 And no, i don’t like Ak4490 sq.


----------



## stemplar (Nov 13, 2018)

Wesbound said:


> Is it possibile to use the iPod/iPhone dac when connected to Q5? I would pick the A5 but don’t want to get in trouble with cables...i just need more volume/power output. Thanks
> And no, i don’t like Ak4490 sq.



Of course, how can it be. Provided the "amazing" iPhone jack connector ...(and either with the ligting-jack adapter) you can get out of Q5 dac ... line output .. although I would not do this .. 
Otherwise, the dual Ak4990, is pretty much about ,, sorry therefore "like an ipod / iphone ..
Greater space, less noise, etc. bigger freqveca transfer and I could still classify heaven and earth for Q5. (bitperfect transfer with Hiby player )

(( ps.There is a music model in the phone, and the LG V series (10/20/30/40) and the LG G6 + / G7 Quad ES Sabre 9218p SoC (normal / aux / high gain switch) ))


----------



## Wesbound

Thanks for the reply even if i understood 30% of what you wrote


----------



## stemplar

Wesbound said:


> Thanks for the reply even if i understood 30% of what you wrote



You can use line output with iPhones.
Much better sound than iPhones (Q5)
Lighting-USB Hiby music (apple store) is better to use, much better sound when Q5 converts. So understandable?


----------



## Wesbound

Yes friend, thank you. But maybe I did not write correctly what I meant: I would like to use the q5 as an amplifier, not as a dac, I would use the iphone's dac instead.


----------



## Wesbound

I know hiby player already, it allows dsd on iPhone. I got a nice dap, acoustic research AR m2 but it is single ended, wanna try my iem in balanced mode, plus the iPhone ui is amazing


----------



## stemplar

Wesbound said:


> Yes friend, thank you. But maybe I did not write correctly what I meant: I would like to use the q5 as an amplifier, not as a dac, I would use the iphone's dac instead.


Yes, I see . You can use it . Only amplifier. And strong too, ..
But since I'm using the LG V30 I do not use the DAC (though it's also a good Sabre 9218P) because the Q5 Ak4990 is much better, warmer, more bass ..


----------



## stemplar (Nov 13, 2018)

Wesbound said:


> I know hiby player already, it allows dsd on iPhone. I got a nice dap, acoustic research AR m2 but it is single ended, wanna try my iem in balanced mode, plus the iPhone ui is amazing



In Balanced mode, I use all my headphones with Q5 (HD660S / 650 /mdr1Am2 etc.) beautifully and dynamically. Trust in the Q5.
I bought an AM3B module to add 70mW in balance (in 300 ohm THD).
That's pretty much enough for an HD650.
Android is Hiby, but more correct is UAPP. More accurate, better DSD, etc.


----------



## Wesbound (Nov 13, 2018)

thanks pal. I tell you, i got 2 gear with ak4490 : schiit modi 2 uber and huawei media pad 5 . The first dry the bass (i got empire ears bravado which has a powerful bass signature and is barely accetable, using it with flat signature iem would be overkill to my taste,too harsh) the latter instaed bloates the bass over the other frequencys. That said, of course i will try out the q5 dac if i buy it. If only a5 was made for ios i would be done on that. but i don't want to go around with bulky stuff, cables and adapters all over.


----------



## stemplar (Nov 13, 2018)

Wesbound said:


> thanks pal. I tell you, i got 2 gear with ak4490 : schiit modi 2 uber and huawei media pad 5 . The first dry the bass (i got empire ears bravado which has a powerful bass signature and is barely accetable, using it with flat signature iem would be overkill to my taste,too harsh) the latter instaed bloates the bass over the other frequencys. That said, of course i will try out the q5 dac if i buy it. If only a5 was made for ios i would be done on that. but i don't want to go around with bulky stuff, cables and adapters all over.



I understand. Then there is the BT AptX. And no cable.  
Although I use Earstudio ES100 instead. (balanced out LDAC 990 kbps)


----------



## thirtyCruisers

Wesbound said:


> but i don't want to go around with bulky stuff, cables and adapters all over


If you want to use the Iphone's DAC and then use the Q5 as an amp, you will still have to use the cable from the Iphone to the Q5. So it's no different from using a (cheaper) amp without a DAC, still cables required. 
If you connect by Bluetooth, you will use the Q5`s DAC. 
Sorry if I got you wrong and am stating the obvious here, hehe.


----------



## Wesbound (Nov 13, 2018)

Iphone and q5 stack is ok, one cable and that's it, using a5/iphone  instead would be a mess...one more adapter cable


----------



## Wesbound (Nov 13, 2018)

i must try out, aptx is intriguing...with flac must be ok. and yes, q5 is better then a5 all the way


----------



## fgfgfg0923 (Nov 13, 2018)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Can you try connecting the mini toslink, see how it behaves?


Same for all 3.5mm in q5, it doesn't fit for about 1mm to lock
While for mini-m8 everything is Ok...


----------



## gto88

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Same for all 3.5mm in q5, it doesn't fit for about 1mm to lock
> While for mini-m8 everything is Ok...


I remember I tried optical adapter once, just for the fit, and it click and fit in all right.


----------



## jpfrog

Anyone using the Q5 with an iPhone X or newer? I like the look of the accessories that lat you stack them but haven't seen anything for the X, only the older models.


----------



## Blotto80

jpfrog said:


> Anyone using the Q5 with an iPhone X or newer? I like the look of the accessories that lat you stack them but haven't seen anything for the X, only the older models.



I use mine with the XS Max. There really isn't a good way to stack them with the rubber bands that are included as there's no bezel to hook the band over on the phone. I was thinking of grabbing a cheap second case and cutting slits in the bottom to loop velcro bands through to loop around the Q5. But for the most part, I stick the Q5 in one pocket and the phone in another. I only use Spotify/Tidal so there really isn't any gain in using the lightning port over BT.


----------



## jpfrog

Blotto80 said:


> I use mine with the XS Max. There really isn't a good way to stack them with the rubber bands that are included as there's no bezel to hook the band over on the phone. I was thinking of grabbing a cheap second case and cutting slits in the bottom to loop velcro bands through to loop around the Q5. But for the most part, I stick the Q5 in one pocket and the phone in another. I only use Spotify/Tidal so there really isn't any gain in using the lightning port over BT.


 Valid point on the BT vs. Lightning...been doing that myself as well but was looking for a way to keep them together during travel.  May have to get creative with mods to other cases as you suggested.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Nov 16, 2018)

jpfrog said:


> Anyone using the Q5 with an iPhone X or newer? I like the look of the accessories that lat you stack them but haven't seen anything for the X, only the older models.





Blotto80 said:


> I use mine with the XS Max. There really isn't a good way to stack them with the rubber bands that are included as there's no bezel to hook the band over on the phone. I was thinking of grabbing a cheap second case and cutting slits in the bottom to loop velcro bands through to loop around the Q5. But for the most part, I stick the Q5 in one pocket and the phone in another. I only use Spotify/Tidal so there really isn't any gain in using the lightning port over BT.



Just do this >> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-module-with-x7.772186/page-162#post-14445872
No need to cut anything. The Q5 leather case (the regular one) comes with two strips of double adhesive velcro in the box. Just buy a second case for your phone, specially for stacking, pop your phone in and out when you need to use it with the Q5.


----------



## Zodler

The included Lightening to Micro USB cable is too short so I used an apple Lightening to USB female cable and USB to Micro USB to have a longer cable. The problem is that the white light on Q5 starts to blink, meaning it is getting charged. It is draining iphone's battery. Anyone seen this? This doesn't happen with the provided short cable. No blinking white light with that.

Anyone knows of any longer Lightening to Micro USB cable? At least 1m and does not cause Q5 to go to charging mode.


----------



## Prog blob

That little lightning cable is why I returned the Q5: you can't replace it! If you want longer, too bad. Lose it or have it fail, and you're done.
Add to that the fact you can't update firmware with a Mac... All this is not serious.


----------



## Zodler

Does FiiO have any other DAC where you can replace the lightening - micro usb cable for a longer one?


----------



## Zodler

I'm thinking of getting a Micro USB female to Micro USB male to extend the Lightening - Micro USB cable. Anyone has experience on this? Will it work?


----------



## Zodler

So, interesting, I got the new iPad Pro with USB-C port. When I connect it to Q5 and use iAudioGate, iAudioGate says it's only a headphone and it is outputting at 44.1 khz only.
This is not the case with iPhone of course.


----------



## FiiO

Zodler said:


> Does FiiO have any other DAC where you can replace the lightening - micro usb cable for a longer one?


Dear friend,

FiiO currently doesn't offer those micro usb to micro usb adaptor cables. You will need to buy it on the market or contact this agent for help: wang@ddhifi.com

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Zodler said:


> I'm thinking of getting a Micro USB female to Micro USB male to extend the Lightening - Micro USB cable. Anyone has experience on this? Will it work?


Dear friend,

We did not test about that as well. You may have a try by yourself first.

Best regards


----------



## Zodler

I ordered 4 different cables and combinations. I will be able to test them to see if it works soon.


----------



## Zodler

Ok, I received the cables and did some tests and found the solution.

I used these 2 and it didn't work. Connecting iphone cable to iphone and then to these Female USB - Male MicroUSB to Q5.












This is unfortunate because a DAC like Oppo HA-2 SE works like this. It's designed in a way that when you connect the normal iphone cable to iphone and the other end to Oppo HA-2 SE, it works.
Please FiiO keep in mind this. To design your future DACs in a way so it could work with a standard iphone cable and a USB female to USB-C male adapter. It shouldn't depend only on a short special cable provided in the box. That cable could break and get damaged and it's also short.


----------



## Zodler

Then I used this cable and it works. You connect it to the special lightening cable provided by Q5. Not only it works, no charging Q5 by iphone (no blinking white light).






So this solution works but as I said earlier it is not ideal because you are dependent on the special short cable provided by Q5.


----------



## stemplar

Zodler said:


> Then I used this cable and it works. You connect it to the special lightening cable provided by Q5. Not only it works, no charging Q5 by iphone (no blinking white light).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just look at how much the cables consume. Additionally, the result of the Ampere program. 1 on the FiiO factory cable (180-250 mA) and an expensive Cable Crreations cable (1400 mA), this will already drain the LG V30 soon. It does not matter how the cable is, in vain, goldened etc.


----------



## stemplar

A question .!!
Why is nobody making it? 4,4 mm female >> 2,5mm male balanced translator ??? There are a couple of cables that have 4,4 pentacones with a factory-balanced cable. (Senn HD660S / Sony MDR-1AM2) It's so difficult to launch ??? since the reverse is available.
(Fiio does not make, only 2.5 female 4.4 balanced male jacktranslator (BL44) )I do not understand this well ... if we are mixing here with pentaconne 4,4 / Trrs 2.5 outputs ..


----------



## Lay.

stemplar said:


> A question .!!
> Why is nobody making it? 4,4 mm female >> 2,5mm male balanced translator ??? There are a couple of cables that have 4,4 pentacones with a factory-balanced cable. (Senn HD660S / Sony MDR-1AM2) It's so difficult to launch ??? since the reverse is available.
> (Fiio does not make, only 2.5 female 4.4 balanced male jacktranslator (BL44) )I do not understand this well ... if we are mixing here with pentaconne 4,4 / Trrs 2.5 outputs ..



I have this one and it is nice quality... https://www.ebay.com/itm/hi-end-4-c...-cable-/122908358227?var=&hash=item1c9de8b653


----------



## stemplar

Lay. said:


> I have this one and it is nice quality... https://www.ebay.com/itm/hi-end-4-c...-cable-/122908358227?var=&hash=item1c9de8b653


Thanks.  Maybe it will be good, although in China they do not know how to "sold" it. Unfortunately, it's not good for my wristwatch. In FioO it would be better because the BL44 is of a very good quality. That's why I do not understand why they do not, because they have 4.4 modules / 2.5 modules for them.


----------



## Lay.

stemplar said:


> Thanks.  Maybe it will be good, although in China they do not know how to "sold" it. Unfortunately, it's not good for my wristwatch. In FioO it would be better because the BL44 is of a very good quality. That's why I do not understand why they do not, because they have 4.4 modules / 2.5 modules for them.



I have FiiO L26 adapter cable and it felt like it could break in any second. BL44 looks a bit sturdier though.

After I bought AM3B module there has been no need for adapters. All of my balanced headphones have 4.4mm cable now.


----------



## stemplar

Lay. said:


> I have FiiO L26 adapter cable and it felt like it could break in any second. BL44 looks a bit sturdier though.
> 
> After I bought AM3B module there has been no need for adapters. All of my balanced headphones have 4.4mm cable now.



I understand . I also have an AM3B, but I have a Earstudio ES100 and maybe I buy a FiiO M9 and I do not have to change the cable again. If I use it for 2.5. That's why. I ordered this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cable-Plug...var=532429624485&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648  I try.
(For HD660S and for the Sony MDR-1AM2 there are 4.4 cables, and the 660S cable can also be used with the HD650)


----------



## toughnut (Nov 28, 2018)

@FiiO , I got a Q5+AM3B (Japanese market version) but recently the DAC seem like not functioning properly. It doesnt work when connected to 2 of my iPhones. It's showing white light, detected under iPhone About page, shown on FiiO player app but when pressed play, it will hang. Tried on 3 laptops, DAC detected but no sound on the jack when playing music. Can assist?

Hardware ver: 2.0
Firmware ver: 0.5.2


----------



## FiiO

toughnut said:


> @FiiO , I got a Q5+AM3B (Japanese market version) but recently the DAC seem like not functioning properly. It doesnt work when connected to 2 of my iPhones. It's showing white light, detected under iPhone About page, shown on FiiO player app but when pressed play, it will hang. Tried on 3 laptops, DAC detected but no sound on the jack when playing music. Can assist?
> 
> Hardware ver: 2.0
> Firmware ver: 0.5.2


Dear friend,

Please try to reset the Q5 by poking the reset button in the left side to see if it helps first?
When using as the DAC for the computer, the headphone jack doesn't output correctly as well?

Best regards


----------



## toughnut

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Please try to reset the Q5 by poking the reset button in the left side to see if it helps first?
> When using as the DAC for the computer, the headphone jack doesn't output correctly as well?
> ...



Yes, I did that few times, as per FiiO help page. Unfortunately still same. I send a private mail to you on service center. Thanks!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Had the chance to listen to my HD 6XX driven by the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, and although I liked the sound, I'm not sure if I like it more than my Q5 / AM3A SE. (I'm still waiting for that balanced cable for the AM3A.)
The iDSD BL had a deeper, weightier, warmer sound with punchier bass, a bit deeper sound stage and smoother high-mids / highs. Q5 was more articulate and drier sounding in comparison. I think I like both 
This had me wondering if AM5 module would sound closer to the iFi iDSD BL presentation. Anyone heard both the Q5 with AM5 and the iFi? What do you think?


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> Had the chance to listen to my HD 6XX driven by the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, and although I liked the sound, I'm not sure if I like it more than my Q5 / AM3A SE. (I'm still waiting for that balanced cable for the AM3A.)
> The iDSD BL had a deeper, weightier, warmer sound with punchier bass, a bit deeper sound stage and smoother high-mids / highs. Q5 was more articulate and drier sounding in comparison. I think I like both
> This had me wondering if AM5 module would sound closer to the iFi iDSD BL presentation. Anyone heard both the Q5 with AM5 and the iFi? What do you think?



The FiiO dealer is very impressed with the AMB3. And I'm happy because I'm balanced with +7 mW (70mW) out power 300 ohms (HD650) but I have balanced cables for it. I strongly recommend because the AM5 unbalanced only 55mW 300 ohm.!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Did anyone try the Q5 docked into Fiio K5? Impressions vs. the AM5?
@FiiO is the K5 being discontinued? It is no longer available at my retailer. Is a new Fiio dock amp coming?


----------



## Floris888

Im thinking , to buy Q5. Im very noob , to this kind of new hobby. This thing will improve sound to my source ?, in that case a smartphone.?


----------



## Floris888

First , i was going to try X5 III , but i have read about, a lot of issues firmware.Then i discovered the Q5 .Best in my budget.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Dec 6, 2018)

Floris888 said:


> Im thinking , to buy Q5. Im very noob , to this kind of new hobby. This thing will improve sound to my source ?, in that case a smartphone.?


It depends on what you understand by "improvement". What do you think is lacking in your smartphone? What headphones do you use? What smartphone do you have? What genre of music? How old are you? What are the last three numbers of your id card?

Later: OK, the last two questions were a joke, but you need to tell us more in order to help you


----------



## stemplar

KopaneDePooj said:


> Did anyone try the Q5 docked into Fiio K5? Impressions vs. the AM5?
> @FiiO is the K5 being discontinued? It is no longer available at my retailer. Is a new Fiio dock amp coming?



They write about it in the K5 (HeadFi) forum. search for it. (although strong but not favorable for the voice character)


----------



## stemplar

Floris888 said:


> First , i was going to try X5 III , but i have read about, a lot of issues firmware.Then i discovered the Q5 .Best in my budget.



Yes, I like it very much.
The AM3B module, balanced output, is very good. (for the HD650 )


----------



## MidSmoothness

So I just received both my Fiio Q5 and Hifiman Edition X V2 today and I’m in love with this combo. It sounds phenomenal and i’m definitely set for a few years.


----------



## amrbadrawy

A side note: While the device is high quality and feels premium in every aspect, the chromium shiny chamfer scratches easily, like it literally got scratched from the included pouch after using it for three times :/


----------



## Zodler

I also got 2 points of scratch on it and I'm very careful always. Now I'm using their case.


----------



## Metalomaniac

I'm considering moving from a DAP (Cayin N5II) to this as the Cayin has awful UX and weak 3.5mm plug.

How solid and reliable is the 3.5mm jack? My Cayin is already loose after just eight months of use.

My current phone has only SBC BT; is it worth upgrading to a phone which has aptx? I might just use wired mode, although I don't trust the mini-USB to last for years in daily use.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

Can anyone comment on the quality of the iphone lighting dongles' DAC vs an external DAC such as the fiio Q5?

I have an iphone 8, beyerdynamic Xelento, and bought the fiio Q5 - I really like the fiio, but I don't really notice a difference in sound quality between the dongle and the Q5. the main benefit of the Q5, to me, is the bass boost, and maybe the gain. I'm just using spotify.

I'm just not sure if the fiio is really worth it if I can get away with a lightning dongle. the Xelentos aren't particularly hard to drive either, so the amp function isn't really useful.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Dec 10, 2018)

MyrenJobrah said:


> ...but I don't really notice a difference in sound quality between the dongle and the Q5.


I think that you answered your own question already when you said the above. Ultimately it is your ears that matter so even if ten people came and told you they heard a difference would you feel differently? I think as a device the Q5 is wonderful sounding, I love the quality and stability of the Bluetooth, and I love that there are different amplifier modules available. Somebody else may not have those needs, or share those appreciations, and that is just fine. 

trust your own ears, but also think about when the Q5 might provide a solution for you that the iPhone and dongle couldn't. Might you need the power down the road if you opt to try a more difficult to drive headphone or IEM?


----------



## toughnut

Had same setup, most for Bluetooth and toying with DSD. IMHO, it’s marginal improvement with Q5. Sharper imaging, better layering and overall smoother sound. Slight background hiss. Overall maybe 5-10% improvement? But yes, Xelento is easy to drive and sound great out of anything.



MyrenJobrah said:


> Can anyone comment on the quality of the iphone lighting dongles' DAC vs an external DAC such as the fiio Q5?
> 
> I have an iphone 8, beyerdynamic Xelento, and bought the fiio Q5 - I really like the fiio, but I don't really notice a difference in sound quality between the dongle and the Q5. the main benefit of the Q5, to me, is the bass boost, and maybe the gain. I'm just using spotify.
> 
> I'm just not sure if the fiio is really worth it if I can get away with a lightning dongle. the Xelentos aren't particularly hard to drive either, so the amp function isn't really useful.


 same


----------



## PanzerIV

I have a question which for some reason appears to be extremely hard to find the answer and I can hardly believe that I'd be the only person wondering this... I have a (Fiio X5 III and II) which is ALREADY suppose to have a very good DAC inside as it's in the main reason to buy such device because otherwise I would be using any cellphone with a crappy internal rather than DAP.

Since I'm suppose to have a high-end DAC already in the X5, I bought a while ago a (Fiio A5) to replace the (E12) I had. I haven't noticed a sound quality difference between both version of X5 but I did between the E12 and A5. I would have a hard time believing the amplifier section from the (Fiio Q5) would be any better than the A5 if the whole unit is about the same size, yet they had to use more space for the battery and also to fit a DAC somewhere inside of it.

Therefore the logic would be that the only reason you'd be paying twice more for the Q5 would be for the DAC rather than a "better amp" and since I use a X5 III rather than a cellphone to listen at music, using the DAC from the Q5 instead of the one from the X5 would be like changing 4x25¢ for 1$ right?

I'm trying to find an even better portable amp than the A5 with a major improvement so I don't feel like throwing money out the window. I now have the (Audeze LCD3) and they recommended me something that can push 500mW at 110Ohm which appears to be very hard to find :/


----------



## evolutiontheory (Dec 13, 2018)

I just got the FiiO Q5 and using with my HE-400 and iSine20. So far I am loving it.. Music is a lot more spacious and full now. Now my purchase of iSine20 feels justified!!!

1) Is there a way to eq while using the Q5? I run the music on spotify using mac/iphone via bluetooth.
2) How do I check the battery level?


----------



## FiiO

evolutiontheory said:


> I just got the FiiO Q5 and using with my HE-400 and iSine20. So far I am loving it.. Music is a lot more spacious and full now. Now my purchase of iSine20 feels justified!!!
> 
> 1) Is there a way to eq while using the Q5? I run the music on spotify using mac/iphone via bluetooth.
> 2) How do I check the battery level?


Dear friend,

You could adjust the EQ in your music player to see if it helps.
You could check the battery level when connecting the Q5 with the mobile phone via Bluetooth. From FiiO music-settings-FiiO BT control-FiiO Q5:     




Best regards


----------



## evolutiontheory

Thank you for the prompt reply. Overall this little device rocks!!

For the next version battery level indicator on the device could be nice It’s just a pain to open the app go to the Fiio control, connect and then check the battery. 

Another pain point has been the volume. Every time I change the music on my phone I have to reach out to the Fiio to control the volume. I guess to be able to control the volume from phone, you need to have a purely digital volume control. 


To follow up does the Q5 support connecting to multiple devices via Bluetooth and auto switching between sources? I could not get that to work, so I assume not.


----------



## gazzington

I'm considering getting one of these with a portable dap. My other options are dx150 or at a push a second hand dx200. What are your opinions?  Also if I get one of these would dx120 be a good partner?


----------



## Dobrescu George

gazzington said:


> I'm considering getting one of these with a portable dap. My other options are dx150 or at a push a second hand dx200. What are your opinions?  Also if I get one of these would dx120 be a good partner?



DX120 + Q5 would be pretty sweet, or if you want to avoid stacking, DX200 with iBasso's AMP 5 is also a great option  

The advantage with Q5 is that you can also strap it to your smartphone, having streaming and other smartphone abilities with smartphone speeds rather than DAP speeds.


----------



## gazzington

Would you take the q5 over dx150?


----------



## Dobrescu George

gazzington said:


> Would you take the q5 over dx150?



They are really different devices for really different purposes. 

In their default configurations, I prefer Q5 because DX150 is more colored, more warm, more smooth, so it requires more EQ. If using iBasso's AMP5 or AMP 8, I would take DX150, but then it costs quite a bit more than Q5, and then again, Q5 becomes prefferable due to the price difference, unless you want to avoid a stack solution and go for a DAP, situation in which DX150 is pretty great, but I still recommend a different AMP module other than its AMP6


----------



## evolutiontheory

I am also noting that there is a latency while playing videos. Is there a way around?


----------



## FiiO

evolutiontheory said:


> Thank you for the prompt reply. Overall this little device rocks!!
> 
> For the next version battery level indicator on the device could be nice It’s just a pain to open the app go to the Fiio control, connect and then check the battery.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

1. No, the battery level indicator in status bar will not be supported by the Q5.
2. When connecting the Q5 to the iPhone via Bluetooth. The volume in iPhone is forced to max and would not change. It is designed to act like that.
3. The Q5 could not connect to two devices at the same time. You would need to switch the Q5 back to pairing mode when you need to connect to other device.

Best regards


----------



## evolutiontheory

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> 1. No, the battery level indicator in status bar will not be supported by the Q5.
> 2. When connecting the Q5 to the iPhone via Bluetooth. The volume in iPhone is forced to max and would not change. It is designed to act like that.
> ...



On #1 I would need either
1) Device to have a battery display or an easier way to check batter status. Honestly it is ridiculous to go and check battery status deep inside your Fiio app. Expecting your customer to go to Fiio app->left panel->FiiO control -> wait for device to show up->click on it->wait again for it to connect to see the battery status is just unreasonable.
2) All of my other bluetooth devices (and I have quite a few) support battery status on a) the device itself (via voice or led lights) and b) supports iphone battery widget. Only the Q5 does not do that.

On#2, I wonder why. When playing on the mac it respects the macs volume. But I understand if that is a design choice you had to make.
On#3, this is probably fine. Restarting Fiio is quick so not a huge pain point.

No low latency is another pain. I cannot use my FiiO and headphone combo for movies on my TV/gaming which is a bummer. Other wireless headsets support this. Limits the versatility of the device by a lot.


Again just feedbacks from a normal user, who was expecting Fiio + iems to replace the wireless headsets altogether.


----------



## GotchaPine007

Hi guys, I have a strange issue. I haven't noticed until yesterday but when I play DSD files from my Hiby R6 connected to my Q5 via USB, it will not light up the DSD logo on the side. I'm sure they are DSD as the Hiby turn White (which means DSD file) if I don't connect the Q5. Any idea?


----------



## FiiO

GotchaPine007 said:


> Hi guys, I have a strange issue. I haven't noticed until yesterday but when I play DSD files from my Hiby R6 connected to my Q5 via USB, it will not light up the DSD logo on the side. I'm sure they are DSD as the Hiby turn White (which means DSD file) if I don't connect the Q5. Any idea?


Dear friend,

You may need to check the settings in your player. Maybe have you turned on the DOP switch?


Best regards


----------



## GotchaPine007

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> You may need to check the settings in your player. Maybe have you turned on the DOP switch?
> 
> ...


That was it!, Thank you very much for the help!


----------



## GotchaPine007

Another question. Has anyone been able to make the Opus #1 work with the Q5? I connected the USB cable but nothing come out from the Q5. Is there a setting to adjust on the Opus?


----------



## upsguys88

Fiio are you considering creating an amp module with the nutubes for Q5?


----------



## FiiO

upsguys88 said:


> Fiio are you considering creating an amp module with the nutubes for Q5?


Dear friend,
Thank you for the kind interest on our products.

But we didn't hear about that from the engineer currently. 

Best regards


----------



## DrWhite

Hi,
Can we get coax-optical out from fiio Q5, if we can't any update planning for that kind of things?


----------



## Brooko

DrWhite said:


> Hi,
> Can we get coax-optical out from fiio Q5, if we can't any update planning for that kind of things?


For what purpose?  Optical out means you are bypassing the high-end DACs from the Q5, and just sending the digital signal.  So you are basically turning a high end device into a USB to optical converter.  Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me ......


----------



## DrWhite (Dec 19, 2018)

Brooko said:


> For what purpose?  Optical out means you are bypassing the high-end DACs from the Q5, and just sending the digital signal.  So you are basically turning a high end device into a USB to optical converter.  Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me ......



Thanks for the answer,

i have a stereo system as well and a high end dac sounding better from coax in. just need that kind of functionality too.

İpad-tidal-q5-dac

Or 

Dap-dac(i have a very good dac-amp and i think i don't need a dap)

İt's not the best idea but can work for me


----------



## evolutiontheory

Anyone tried the Q5 with LCD2Cs? Can it drive the LCD2Cs via the 3.5mm output port? 
Thanks!


----------



## Dobrescu George

DrWhite said:


> Thanks for the answer,
> 
> i have a stereo system as well and a high end dac sounding better from coax in. just need that kind of functionality too.
> 
> ...



FiiO X7mkii has that functionality, but you won't be able to use it connected to your iPad AFAIK 

FiiO K3 has RCA Coax Output, and it is quite less expensive than Q5, may better fit your needs. 



evolutiontheory said:


> Anyone tried the Q5 with LCD2Cs? Can it drive the LCD2Cs via the 3.5mm output port?
> Thanks!



Only using AMP5, but then, it can


----------



## evolutiontheory

More $$$ down the drain I suppose


----------



## evolutiontheory (Dec 20, 2018)

> Only using AMP5, but then, it can



Out of curiosity what happens if I connect the LCD2C to the 3.5mm out on the Q5

Asking this because LCD2Cs have an impedance of 70ohm and not so bad sensitivity.  The Fiio Q5 3.5mm output spec says it can support upto 150ohm. Am I missing something? Does this just mean that it can be connected to headphones up to 150ohm and not necessarily that it can drive them?

I have the lcd2c coming in on Friday; it would suck if I cannot listen to those 

Thanks!!


----------



## Dobrescu George

evolutiontheory said:


> Out of curiosity what happens if I connect the LCD2C to the 3.5mm out on the Q5
> 
> Asking this because LCD2Cs have an impedance of 70ohm and not so bad sensitivity.  The Fiio Q5 3.5mm output spec says it can support upto 150ohm. Am I missing something? Does this just mean that it can be connected to headphones up to 150ohm and not necessarily that it can drive them?
> 
> ...



You can absolutely connect them, and it will play music, I was more or less talking about getting the best out of them... 

Q5 in its original shape should work pretty well eihter way with AM03A, but judging from my experience with LCD-2, I'd go with AM05 for best results. 

You may want the sound to be a little more controlled, as it is with AM05, but otherwise, you can enjoy the pairing right away. Actually, please do report back on how you feel about the pairing


----------



## FiiO

DrWhite said:


> Hi,
> Can we get coax-optical out from fiio Q5, if we can't any update planning for that kind of things?


Dear friend,

The Q5 doesn't have coaxial or optical output. Our K3 or X7MKII includes instead, you may check whether this could meet your need.

Best regards


----------



## evolutiontheory

Dobrescu George said:


> You can absolutely connect them, and it will play music, I was more or less talking about getting the best out of them...
> 
> Q5 in its original shape should work pretty well eihter way with AM03A, but judging from my experience with LCD-2, I'd go with AM05 for best results.
> 
> You may want the sound to be a little more controlled, as it is with AM05, but otherwise, you can enjoy the pairing right away. Actually, please do report back on how you feel about the pairing



Will do. Right now I plan to drive the LCD2 off of AM3 at least for a few months until I am ready to upgrade. But the fact that AM5 can drive the LCD2s well is encouraging. 

My iSine20 can be driven off of ES100 but I thought the sound was fuller on the Q5 and cipher cable. So I can imagine what AM5 could bring to the table. 

Thanks for the inputs.


----------



## NewForce

I wish to have a 3in1 DAP that consist, Android 8/9 OS Player, Headamp, DAC with USB, Line-in/Optical/Coxial inputs, support LDAC Bluetooth 5.0.

The reason, I've recently  just found out some of my old Sony CD Walkman/Discman sound quality are much better than many DAP and most smartphones.

If a 3in1 DAP can have those inputs ability that I have mentioned, I can use it working as a DAC unit, connect it to my old CD Walkman optical/line-out, not only can upgrade the CD Walkman sound quality with latest dac technology but also can listening to them through the DAP with my bluetooth headphones either via wired mode,  or if needed can be on bluetooth wireless mode too.


----------



## Dobrescu George

evolutiontheory said:


> Will do. Right now I plan to drive the LCD2 off of AM3 at least for a few months until I am ready to upgrade. But the fact that AM5 can drive the LCD2s well is encouraging.
> 
> My iSine20 can be driven off of ES100 but I thought the sound was fuller on the Q5 and cipher cable. So I can imagine what AM5 could bring to the table.
> 
> Thanks for the inputs.



iSine20 is an odd one, it only sounds really good with the Cipher cable, I wasn't able to properly EQ it without the cable, but with the cable, it was quite amazing. BTW, with that cable, the cable does all the job. 

I think you will be plenty happy with AM03A driving your LCD2 for now  

Pleasse share how you feel with everybody else, may help someone who wants to get the same pairing


----------



## arielext

Currawong said:


> I tried on another machine, with a completely fresh Windows 10 install (which may now be part of the problem) and now I get, for the DFU Wizard (which is from 2014) _"The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect."
> _
> I found a solution: Download BlueSuite from here: http://www.kcwirefree.com/docs/BlueSuite_2.6.2.zip, install it, and then select the firmware to upgrade with through the installed DFUWizard.



I want to share my solution for this; install the 32 bit version of the MS visual c++ redist 2008 library and you can install and update the firmware. This could help more people out there if the solutions are sensible and better to find


----------



## evolutiontheory (Jan 15, 2019)

So I got my LCD2Cs and tried driving them with the Fiio Q5 AM3. While it had enough volume, I could always sense the lack of oomph. No issues with volume at all.
Compared to my Macbook pro 2018 (which has a pretty good sound output), the Fiio produced a bit more wider sound stage and resolution. Daft Punk - Fresh: The waves at the start had more sound stage (wider and felt far) and the third wave splash had a lot more resolution with the Fiio, but the intimacy/energy was lacking and this could be due to the larger sound stage with not enough output.

This said, I could not care less for LCD2Cs - both ergonomicaly & sound wise; they must go back unfortunately. I am learning that I am more of the Beyerdynamic guy in the sound signature. I went to an audio store nearby and did some A/B testing with LCD2 closed, Focal Elear and clear using Fiio and a high end amp. I also tried Utopia and other LCD versions. With a desktop amp the bass on LCD2 is amazing and the difference between Fiio AM3 and the shop's high end amp was quite apparent.

In the end what I wanted was exactly found in Focal elears.. I wanted the slam of the bass, but then the bass to stay away (say from the guitar riffs) along with a lot of treble as well, I guess that is due to my 4 year ownership of the M50s. I ended up walking out with Focal elears and I dont even care about the Elear/Elex comparisons. I have put a decent amount of time into those over the past few days and I love the Elears. They are easier to drive than LCD2Cs, so Fiio AM3 is a pretty good pairing.  I have a set of 2.5mm balanced LQi OCC cables coming in this week, so I can do some A/B testing and report back on the balanced out.

Update: I am being humbled on a regular basis by the mighty LCD2Cs. I had spoken too early on the LCD2s. I am in love with these. Nothing stands out, but the simplicity in which these pull the bass and other sounds is just awesome. You almost feel like the music is simple and there is not much happening which lead to my initial underwhelming impressions, but lately I have realized that at the same time you can feel more than other headphones I own. 
Soundstage, imaging everything is just awesome; that is with the AM3 amp. Elears are tonaly very different. They do have that added treble energy which makes them better for certain genres.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Hi guys, just got my Q5 in the mail and having trouble with the firmware update, Bluetooth updated fine,

I opened the FiioDFU and got a DLL error saying that my version isn't correct. I downloaded the dac driver "FiiO_v4.13.0_2017-07-21_setup" directly from the fiio site and have it installed,

However, when browsing the fiio forum for my issue I saw the recommended version is "FiiO_v4.47.0_2018-08-03_setup", maybe thats why my DFU keeps crashing when I try to open it?

I'm not too bothered by it but I'm getting a lot of hiss out of the 2.5mm even with 20ohm impedance iems and wanted to see if the new firmware would help, thanks in advance,


----------



## arielext

I used this site: http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/53
then I downloaded the files on the right hand side:

 

So the Q5 sysetem firmware file - v0.52 and Q5 system firmware upgrade tool
Following the instruction the actual upgrade went flawless for me (latest win 10 64bit).

On a sidenote: both before and after I did not get a lot of hiss from either outputs (using BGVP DMG IEMs, their resistance is way lower then 200ohm).


----------



## Dabbaranks

arielext said:


> I used this site: http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/53
> then I downloaded the files on the right hand side:
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply, but I have all the right firmware files, I however do not have the most updated dac driver, the one on the same link you posted downloads the dac driver from 2017. 

Just gonna clarify, I have all the system firmware tools and firmware, but FiiO DFU will crash on launch with a DLL error which I see is related to the dac driver from my research.

Thanks again


----------



## arielext

I use the same USB drivers; could you make a screenshot of the error you get? Might be a trigger for someone here that can help.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Dec 30, 2018)

arielext said:


> I use the same USB drivers; could you make a screenshot of the error you get? Might be a trigger for someone here that can help.



Here you go, thanks for the help, uhh sorry my links arent working, https://imgur.com/a/n4imPIl


----------



## TheEldestBoy

@FiiO
@JamesFiiO
I see that the new Fiio M6 allows users to send music from their iPhone to the M6 via AirPlay-2.

Will this feature be coming to the Q5?
Or do we need to wait until the Q5 MKII?
This feature would be GREAT for the Q5, as the sound quality & connection should be better/stronger than bluetooth.


----------



## DrWhite

TheEldestBoy said:


> @FiiO
> @JamesFiiO
> I see that the new Fiio M6 allows users to send music from their iPhone to the M6 via AirPlay-2.
> 
> ...



That would be fantastic!


----------



## FiiO

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks for the reply, but I have all the right firmware files, I however do not have the most updated dac driver, the one on the same link you posted downloads the dac driver from 2017.
> 
> Just gonna clarify, I have all the system firmware tools and firmware, but FiiO DFU will crash on launch with a DLL error which I see is related to the dac driver from my research.
> 
> Thanks again


Dear friend,

You may using the DAC driver which is not compatible with the update tool. The 4.13 DAC driver is compatible with the older version tool instead. 
Please try this for help:
http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO_USB_DAC_Driver-V4.13.0.zip

http://fiio-instruction.fiio.net/Instruction of updating the firmware of Q5.rar

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

TheEldestBoy said:


> @FiiO
> @JamesFiiO
> I see that the new Fiio M6 allows users to send music from their iPhone to the M6 via AirPlay-2.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

The Q5 doesn't support Wifi connection so it could not support this feature. 

Best regards


----------



## NewForce

TheEldestBoy said:


> @FiiO
> @JamesFiiO
> I see that the new Fiio M6 allows users to send music from their iPhone to the M6 via AirPlay-2.
> 
> ...


Don't think so, Q5 is a dac which does not have any storage space like a dap.


----------



## Nqstv

Hey All,  Just got my Q5 and I'm feeling really dumb and/or ignorant.  Using the Fiio Music App, I've looked everywhere and can't find the Q5 settings.  I did confirm the Q5 is on the latest firmware, and I just successfully updated the Bluetooth firmware, but still no Q5 settings.  What am I missing?

On a side note, love this little tool. And the fact that it has Bluetooth controls solved the only real concern I had.  It sounds great and is easy to use.  Thanks Fiio.


----------



## sidecross

Click on app, go to settings, go to BT  Control, and there is an icon upper left then click on it.


----------



## Nqstv

Perfect, took a couple power cycles, but it finally showed up.  Thanks @sidecross


----------



## MarkF786

I just bought a Q5, my second Fiio product (the other being a BTR3).  I really like their hardware but must say...

THEY HAVE THE WORST FIRMWARE UPGRADE PROCESS I'VE EVER ENCOUNTERED!

I've been working in InfoTech for 25+ years and have never encountered anything so bad.  They have contradictory information across different websites, everything is plagued with typos, different versions of software on different websites, the software is buggy and requires a lot of troubleshooting, I see bad advice like "use instead a 32-bit OS", etc; I could spend an hour documenting all the issues I encountered in the 90 minutes spent upgrading my firmware.

What was most shocking was Fiio's advice to ignore anti-virus software detecting their drivers as a virus, and to bypass it instead.  If you've been following the ongoing cyber warfare between the US and China for the past 10+ years, you'd know it's not smart to ignore such alerts from software developed in China.  That's not to say that Fiio would be installing malware in their software, but rather others in their supply chain could, as I've encountered several times with software from China. 

This has been my experience with both the BTR3 and Q5.  Fiio needs to invest more in their software development to make firmware upgrades more customer friendly, like the majority of other consumer companies.  It's surprising customers seem ok with this, but maybe in this niche hobby people are less discriminating in such matters.


----------



## gto88

It sounds really frustrated.
Lucky me that I have no issue to upgrade it.


----------



## snellemin

90 minutes to upgrade the firmware, with 25+ years field experience????  Took my wife 10 minutes to do it, while she was mixing cake batter.


----------



## sidecross (Jan 5, 2019)

I too have had no reason to do this, but looking at fiio's page on how to do this made me dizzy.


----------



## PumpUpTheVolume

I just got a q5, upgraded from a a3 and I gotta say I love it so far. I also have a Audio Aroma A100, how do you guys think they compare. Im thinking of selling the A100 now since I really don't need two portable amps.


----------



## Floris888

Sound on Q5 , Bluetooth vs optical/coaxial line in,  do you guys heard differences in term of sound quality?! Because is just good.


----------



## Brooko

Shouldn't be any difference.  Exactly same DAC for conversion.  Blind test, volume matched, same master tracks - I can't hear any difference.


----------



## Floris888

Just curios , because i did not have heard , any diference . Its just soo good , especialy this, its my first type of that kind device.


----------



## sidecross

I can hear no difference and the advantage of the q5 is BT and the ability to control 256 volume separations and 3 options of play with just the q5 in hand.


----------



## Floris888

3 option 


sidecross said:


> I can hear no difference and the advantage of the q5 is BT and the ability to control 256 volume separations and 3 options of play with just the q5 in hand.


The ability to control 256 volume separations and 3 options of play?! I dont understand , i have this unit for about 2 weeks .


----------



## sidecross

The q5 has 256 graduations of volume (an iphone has 16) and the q5 can pause/play as well as forward or back a track on my song list. I use an iphone se for my bulk music storage and the ability to keep each unit in a separate pocket is the q5 advantage for me.


----------



## Floris888

Now i understand. Exactly the same im using q5 with android phone . I dont understand , very good english, thats the problem with me.


----------



## sidecross (Jan 5, 2019)

Floris888 said:


> Now i understand. Exactly the same im using q5 with android phone . I dont understand , very good english, thats the problem with me.


Your english is very good, things at times are not as easy to read as they are to write.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Floris888 said:


> Sound on Q5 , Bluetooth vs optical/coaxial line in,  do you guys heard differences in term of sound quality?! Because is just good.



I prefer USB input above Bluetooth personally, can hear the difference done by the BT compression algorithms, especially with metal music with a lot of background instruments.


----------



## Brooko

Which Bluetooth codec?  You realise both are going through the same DAC?  How did you test?  How did you volume match?


----------



## MarkF786

Any advice for the most versatile module for someone not interested in using the balanced output?  I'm thinking of either the AM2A or AM5 for higher impedance 'phones, but which one would also be good for IEMs?

Thanks!


----------



## Brooko

AM5 gives you more flexibility for both.


----------



## MarkF786

Brooko said:


> AM5 gives you more flexibility for both.



Thanks for the feedback, Brooko.  I read in your AM2A review that at the time, "If I had to choose just two modules of all of the ones FiiO has on offer at the moment, I'd probably go AM3 and AM2A" - though I did read some later comments in other threads where you felt the AM2A was too warm. I imagine your tastes changed over time as you had more experience with the modules.

Could you shared your current thoughts on AM5 vs AM2A?

Thanks again.


----------



## Brooko

Have a comparison in the works for all the modules.  Hopefully only a week or two away.  Reason I recommended the AM5 over the AM2A to you was that the AM5 has slightly more power, but is cleaner for IEMs - and you wanted one module to do both (didn't you?).  I may have mis-read your question?


----------



## MidSmoothness

MarkF786 said:


> Thanks for the feedback, Brooko.  I read in your AM2A review that at the time, "If I had to choose just two modules of all of the ones FiiO has on offer at the moment, I'd probably go AM3 and AM2A" - though I did read some later comments in other threads where you felt the AM2A was too warm. I imagine your tastes changed over time as you had more experience with the modules.
> 
> Could you shared your current thoughts on AM5 vs AM2A?
> 
> Thanks again.



I don’t own the AM5, but I did just get my AM2A in and I like it a lot. I wouldn’t say that it is overly warm at all. I’ve got it paired with my Moondrop Kanas Pro at the moment and if has great synergy.


----------



## Brooko

MidSmoothness said:


> I don’t own the AM5, but I did just get my AM2A in and I like it a lot. I wouldn’t say that it is overly warm at all. I’ve got it paired with my Moondrop Kanas Pro at the moment and if has great synergy.



Warm compared to the others.  Shows in the higher harmonic distortion too.  Nothing wrong with that - a lot of people love it.  I have some amps which excel  in 2nd order harmonics, and a nice warm tonality.  Most of the time though I’d rather have a linear amp.

If you have any 4.4 terminated headphones, you’ll probably like the AM3B too


----------



## MarkF786

Brooko said:


> Have a comparison in the works for all the modules.  Hopefully only a week or two away.  Reason I recommended the AM5 over the AM2A to you was that the AM5 has slightly more power, but is cleaner for IEMs - and you wanted one module to do both (didn't you?).  I may have mis-read your question?



Yeah, I'm looking for one module for use with headphones (HD800S, Elear, HD580/600/650/58X) and IEMs (Solaris, Andromeda, SE846, EX1000).  Though I do have balanced cables for most of them, I tend to stick with unbalanced most of the time.

I look forward to reading your upcoming comparison.


----------



## dannyvstheworld

Hi guys, if you have both AM3A and AM1, could you comment a bit on the pairing with high sensitivity IEMs (like Andromeda), especially regarding the hissing?

Actually the AM3A is pretty quiet, with only faint hissing that is more or less on the same level as Mojo; but I’m super sensitive to hissing so any marginal improvement is welcomed.


----------



## Brooko

Sorry Danny - I have the modules, but no Andromeda


----------



## toughnut

snellemin said:


> 90 minutes to upgrade the firmware, with 25+ years field experience????  Took my wife 10 minutes to do it, while she was mixing cake batter.



Said the guy who is married to Russian KGB hacker 

I have same frustration with the software and I’m not amateur either. The broken software make me look like one.

Anyway, my unit is under RMA for past month and response stop from @FiiO. Hope to get it back soon....


----------



## dannyvstheworld

Brooko said:


> Sorry Danny - I have the modules, but no Andromeda


Thanks anyway. The Andros are hiss monsters and, guess what, the quietest DAC I’ve tried so far.. is FiiO BTR3.


----------



## dannyvstheworld

toughnut said:


> Said the guy who is married to Russian KGB hacker
> 
> I have same frustration with the software and I’m not amateur either. The broken software make me look like one.
> 
> Anyway, my unit is under RMA for past month and response stop from @FiiO. Hope to get it back soon....


Have yet to update the film ware since I only had my Q5 last night.. But I was really on the verge of returning it after multiple tries and still couldn’t find the Q5 in the FiiO music app. As I searched for the solution the most useful advice I’d seen was.. keep trying! And thankfully it worked!

I guess it’s ok for the hardware/ software to have some glitches once in a while, but updating the manual in a timely manner always helps. It’s not like I had to search this thread to know that the set up from Q5 in FiiO music app has been moved from settings to settings -> FiiO BT control, and, even weirder, I’ll never know that I could change the filter setting if I hadn’t read the Headfonia or Headfonics review, because it’s not even mentioned in the manual or in the website.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Jan 7, 2019)

Brooko said:


> Have a comparison in the works for all the modules.  Hopefully only a week or two away.  (...)


Great! I was just going to ask you about that modules comparison, because I remember you said somewhere that you are going to do that. I recently bought the HD 6XX and I'm ok with the volume level the AM3A provides on high-gain single ended. I am around 12 o'clock and it is loud enough for me. And I don't feel I'm missing anything in any frequency range. But when I compared the AM3A with iFi Micro iDSD BL, iFi had a very distinct warmer and punchier signature with rounder high-mids, which I also liked. So I'm interested on how the AM5 sounds compared to AM3A and iFi. I'm very curious about your FiiO modules comparison. I'd like a FiiO module that sounds more like the Micro iDSD BL.


----------



## Brooko

KopaneDePooj said:


> Great! I was just going to ask you about that modules comparison, because I remember you said somewhere that you are going to do that. I recently bought the HD 6XX and I'm ok with the volume level the AM3A provides on high-gain single ended. I am around 12 o'clock and it is loud enough for me. And I don't feel I'm missing anything in any frequency range. But when I compared the AM3A with iFi Micro iDSD BL, iFi had a very distinct warmer and punchier signature with rounder high-mids, which I also liked. So I'm interested on how the AM5 sounds compared to AM3A and iFi. I'm very curious about your FiiO modules comparison. I'd like a FiiO module that sounds more like the Micro iDSD BL.



The three warmest are AM5, AM2A and AM3B.  I'll try to remember to do a comparison with the iDSD when I get close to finishing the edit.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Brooko said:


> The three warmest are AM5, AM2A and AM3B.  I'll try to remember to do a comparison with the iDSD when I get close to finishing the edit.


Great, thanks! Do you have the Micro iDSD Black Label or the silver one? I had a listen to the Black Label.


----------



## Lay. (Jan 7, 2019)

I have AM3A and AM3B. AM3A balanced is warmer and punchier than single ended (more power?). AM3B is warmer than AM3A. AM3B balanced is my personal favorite. Tested mostly with HD660S and HD800S

Edit: AM2A corrected to AM3A


----------



## Brooko

KopaneDePooj said:


> Great, thanks! Do you have the Micro iDSD Black Label or the silver one? I had a listen to the Black Label.


I have the silver (original).  Paired with an iUSB and an iTube (for my active monitors)



Lay. said:


> I have AM2A and AM3B. AM2A balanced is warmer and punchier than single ended (more power?). AM3B is warmer than AM2A. AM3B balanced is my personal favorite. Tested mostly with HD660S and HD800S


AM2A isn't a balance module.


----------



## Lay.

Brooko said:


> I have the silver (original).  Paired with an iUSB and an iTube (for my active monitors)
> 
> 
> AM2A isn't a balance module.


My bad.... AM3A and AM3B


----------



## Floris888

Hello , im thinking to stack my Q5 with an audio player.Because im not happy using with a phone , because( text messaging , phone call). Budget 200-300 euros.Anny sugestions!?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Floris888 said:


> Hello , im thinking to stack my Q5 with an audio player.Because im not happy using with a phone , because( text messaging , phone call). Budget 200-300 euros.Anny sugestions!?


I'd get a second phone just for music. Most DAPs in that budget are slower on user interface, with poor / buggy player software. Since Q5 with Bluetooth - no more DAPs for me.


----------



## Floris888

KopaneDePooj said:


> I'd get a second phone just for music. Most DAPs in that budget are slower on user interface, with poor / buggy player software. Since Q5 with Bluetooth - no more DAPs for me.


Yes i know, thei are buggy , have issues with player software and so on. I have read a lot , in last past 5-6 months , wen i decide to go on this journey. And i have a lot , a lot to learn.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Floris888 said:


> Yes i know, thei are buggy , have issues with player software and so on. I have read a lot , in last past 5-6 months , wen i decide to go on this journey. And i have a lot , a lot to learn.


Yes, if you already have the Q5, it's not worth investing in a DAP IMO. A smartphone with SD card slot + good stable Bluetooth and aptX (NOT my HTC 10...  ) + USB Audio Player Pro app and you're all set.
Plus you can use streaming apps like Tidal or Spotify over Wi-Fi or add a SIM card later for mobile internet. Or set a wi-fi hotspot on your current phone and connect the new phone to it for internet access. Makes much more sense that pairing with a DAP.


----------



## Floris888

Thanks for answear, yes bluetooth indeed is very good on Q5 , very good.Today i have , used 3 differents phones with differents specs , with optical /coaxial line versus the bluetooth , and i was blown away ,  how good this thing can be . On bluetooth .


----------



## Dabbaranks

Just wanted to report back after picking up a 2.5mm IEMatch adapter I’ve lost all hiss on my DM6’s when using it on my q5 in any configuration. IEMatch only needs to be in high mode for these, fully enjoying my q5 now.


----------



## gazzington

I've just bought a q5 for use at work. After much thought about what I can use at work this seems to be best fit. I can stream from an old phone plus an iPod touch. Also, much cheaper than fiio x7ii. I got this new for £185


----------



## etoilebiscuit

gazzington said:


> I've just bought a q5 for use at work. After much thought about what I can use at work this seems to be best fit. I can stream from an old phone plus an iPod touch. Also, much cheaper than fiio x7ii. I got this new for £185


good price, where did you get it from?


----------



## gazzington

etoilebiscuit said:


> good price, where did you get it from?


eBay, I just got lucky!


----------



## gazzington

It's arrived today and I'm charging it up to use in work tomorrow with my iPod touch


----------



## gazzington

No to look into what iems go well with it for a metal listener .....


----------



## evolutiontheory

evolutiontheory said:


> So I got my LCD2Cs and tried driving them with the Fiio Q5 AM3. While it had enough volume, I could always sense the lack of oomph. No issues with volume at all.
> Compared to my Macbook pro 2018 (which has a pretty good sound output), the Fiio produced a bit more wider sound stage and resolution. Daft Punk - Fresh: The waves at the start had more sound stage (wider and felt far) and the third wave splash had a lot more resolution with the Fiio, but the intimacy/energy was lacking and this could be due to the larger sound stage with not enough output.
> 
> This said, I could not care less for LCD2Cs - both ergonomicaly & sound wise; they must go back unfortunately. I am learning that I am more of the Beyerdynamic guy in the sound signature. I went to an audio store nearby and did some A/B testing with LCD2 closed, Focal Elear and clear using Fiio and a high end amp. I also tried Utopia and other LCD versions. With a desktop amp the bass on LCD2 is amazing and the difference between Fiio AM3 and the shop's high end amp was quite apparent.
> ...



Updated this! I stand corrected three weeks into owning the headphones.


----------



## gazzington

Bugger by putting it in a case the faux leather unit has curled up a bit on one of the corners. Anybody else had that problem?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

KopaneDePooj said:


> Great! I was just going to ask you about that modules comparison, because I remember you said somewhere that you are going to do that. I recently bought the HD 6XX and I'm ok with the volume level the AM3A provides on high-gain single ended. I am around 12 o'clock and it is loud enough for me. And I don't feel I'm missing anything in any frequency range. But when I compared the AM3A with iFi Micro iDSD BL, iFi had a very distinct warmer and punchier signature with rounder high-mids, which I also liked. So I'm interested on how the AM5 sounds compared to AM3A and iFi. I'm very curious about your FiiO modules comparison. I'd like a FiiO module that sounds more like the Micro iDSD BL.





Lay. said:


> I have AM3A and AM3B. AM3A balanced is warmer and punchier than single ended (more power?). AM3B is warmer than AM3A. AM3B balanced is my personal favorite. Tested mostly with HD660S and HD800S
> 
> Edit: AM2A corrected to AM3A



I finally received the balanced cable for HD 6XX, from aliexpress. Waited more than 2 months for it. Wow! what a change... I didn't expect this, and I was very skeptical of any sound quality increase and only expected more volume.
Now I can definitely say that my HD 6XX were underpowered with the single ended connection. And I agree with the FiiO specs for AM3A: SE drive ability = 150 Ohm. BAL drive ability = 300 Ohm.
It's really not about volume, I had enough volume single ended. But balanced... when you move that volume knob just a few millimeters above quiet/medium listening level, you can feel that the added voltage / power / authority of balanced benefits the HD 6XX.
Better dynamics, punchier bass, more alive, rounder and cleaner sounding. Closer to what I heard from iFi Micro iDSD Black Label. Single ended it didn't feel the same, although it had plenty of volume, it was a different kind of "loud". It struggled a bit. Not now.
It feels like a different amp, and it should be so, because most of the specs SE vs. BAL are different. See here at the bottom of the page: https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/8324.html
So I agree, and I thank you all that recommended balanced cable for 300Ohm Senns with Q5. It really is the way to go!


----------



## nialloreilly

KopaneDePooj said:


> Yes, if you already have the Q5, it's not worth investing in a DAP IMO. A smartphone with SD card slot + good stable Bluetooth and aptX (NOT my HTC 10...  ) + USB Audio Player Pro app and you're all set.
> Plus you can use streaming apps like Tidal or Spotify over Wi-Fi or add a SIM card later for mobile internet. Or set a wi-fi hotspot on your current phone and connect the new phone to it for internet access. Makes much more sense that pairing with a DAP.



Are you saying HTC M10 not great as a source? Will upgrade to Samsung S10 when it's available...


----------



## gazzington

It took me a while but I've managed to update the firmware and Bluetooth. Anybody know what these updates do?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

nialloreilly said:


> Are you saying HTC M10 not great as a source? Will upgrade to Samsung S10 when it's available...


Just the Bluetooth part has problems, since update to Android 8.0. For specifics you can look back into this thread I posted a lot of issues with the HTC 10 and Bluetooth.


----------



## nialloreilly

OK thanks, I tried looking into what was behind the 3.5 Audio jack on the M10, on pdadb.net but was unable to see anything. Not too much there on Bluetooth either. I got my BGVP DM6s yesterday, plugged them into my HTC M10 and was impressed with the sound improvement. Then I plugged them into my MacBook Pro and they went to a whole different level!! The M10 sound output isn't the greatest. Hope to be looking into a Q5 type DAC/AMP some time after the S10 gets released.

Thanks again


----------



## zeguym

Hi  everyone, want to ask about this Q5.
I have problem with this Q5 when used  cable connection. Problem is when use this Q5 with pocophone f1 running miui 10 android pie. When i used otg type c and usb a to micro usb, when use with UAPP, when i choose allow usb, only distort sound come out. But when not choose allow usb,  it's normal but dsd logo is off. That not happening when use v20 running on Android oreo. So then o buy fiio cl06 cable. Using pocophone when sound is normal  but every few minutes, it's disconnect and reconnect again, and  it's repeatedly, so i cannot used it. It's anyone already try it with pocophone or anything that running on miui 10 android pie?


----------



## Floris888

Hello, i just buy , Thriller album from HDTracks in DSD , but my buton on the Q5 is stil dead. My source is an smartphone.What do i do wrong here?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Floris888 said:


> Hello, i just buy , Thriller album from HDTracks in DSD , but my buton on the Q5 is stil dead. My source is an smartphone.What do i do wrong here?


Your player has to output native DSD. Try USB Audio Player Pro > Settings > USB Audio > DSD mode > Native DSD.


----------



## MarkF786

Has anyone figured a way to make it quicker to swap amp modules on the Q5?  I was thinking of trying to find rubber plugs to fit in the screw holes; I seem to recall having something like that sitting around somewhere.


----------



## FiiO

gazzington said:


> It took me a while but I've managed to update the firmware and Bluetooth. Anybody know what these updates do?


 Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 System Firmware：https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/65276.html
How to check the firmware version on the Q5： https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/158038.html

Main changes in v0.52：
*1. Fixed the issue where the "Sharp Roll-Off Filter" and the "Short delay Sharp Roll-Off Filter" settings were reversed;
2. Fixed the issue where the device would not charge when the Side USB port was set as data port. 

Best regards *


----------



## superuser1

Apart from the xDSD is there any similarly placed product with a balanced output?


----------



## gazzington

So would you all consider the m6 a great transport for the q5?


----------



## Arghavan

Hey guys,
when using Q5 as a USB DAC on PC, is there any noticeable audio delay while watching videos or playing games?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Arghavan said:


> Hey guys,
> when using Q5 as a USB DAC on PC, is there any noticeable audio delay while watching videos or playing games?



Absolutely no delay, I have used Q5 a LOT of times this way even in shooter games, it is perfect for this type of usage


----------



## dannytang

Does anyone know if FiiO sells the lightning to micro USB cable on its own?


----------



## soundquality12

Ditto 
I cannot find a way to replace lighting to usb micro for Apple products.


----------



## FiiO

dannytang said:


> Does anyone know if FiiO sells the lightning to micro USB cable on its own?


Dear friend,

We don't sell that cable for the Q1MKII/Q5. But if you need one, you may contact wang@ddhifi.com for help.

Best regards


----------



## dannytang

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We don't sell that cable for the Q1MKII/Q5. But if you need one, you may contact wang@ddhifi.com for help.
> 
> Best regards



Thanks for the recommendation! I just checked their AliExpress store, but shipping cost (CAD ~$35) more than the cable (CAD ~$21). I'll send them an email and see if they can ship it with something other than DHL.


----------



## Blotto80

dannytang said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! I just checked their AliExpress store, but shipping cost (CAD ~$35) more than the cable (CAD ~$21). I'll send them an email and see if they can ship it with something other than DHL.



Also don’t forget to take the import fees into account. If they use DHL you will get hit 100% of the time.


----------



## dannytang

Blotto80 said:


> Also don’t forget to take the import fees into account. If they use DHL you will get hit 100% of the time.



Haha, I know. Asking them about e-packet which would be cheaper, for shipping at least.


----------



## Papa253

this may have been asked before, so forgive if thats the case.

Im using a macbook pro and Ive been reading about the bluetooth upgrade firmware but looking at the online instructions they dont seem to be for mac peps like myself.

So my ?? is
1. can macs do this update if so how?

2. if macs do need this update how do I know if I have the new bluetooth update?


----------



## Papa253

demond said:


> Please check the version of the software and upgrade it to the latest version 1.3.3.




how do you check the version on a mac or iPhone or even a samsung note 8?????????????


----------



## dannytang

Papa253 said:


> this may have been asked before, so forgive if thats the case.
> 
> Im using a macbook pro and Ive been reading about the bluetooth upgrade firmware but looking at the online instructions they dont seem to be for mac peps like myself.
> 
> ...



Only way to do it on a Mac is to run a Windows Virtual Machine. 



Papa253 said:


> how do you check the version on a mac or iPhone or even a samsung note 8?????????????



You can only do it on a Windows PC.


----------



## Papa253

dannytang said:


> Only way to do it on a Mac is to run a Windows Virtual Machine.
> 
> 
> 
> You can only do it on a Windows PC.


  thanks now i can stop reading every post on here to find out.

thank you have a great week


----------



## MarkF786

dannytang said:


> Only way to do it on a Mac is to run a Windows Virtual Machine.



When I tried that approach to update the firmware on my FiiO BTR3, it didn't work.

The Q5 does use a different process for updating the primary firmware, so maybe that would work, but the bluetooth firmware follows the same process as the BTR3.

In the end, I used a Windows computer.


----------



## franz12

I still much like my Q5. It can drive my Ether 2 and Utopia without an issue, though the balanced out is needed for Ether 2.


----------



## dannytang

MarkF786 said:


> When I tried that approach to update the firmware on my FiiO BTR3, it didn't work.
> 
> The Q5 does use a different process for updating the primary firmware, so maybe that would work, but the bluetooth firmware follows the same process as the BTR3.
> 
> In the end, I used a Windows computer.



I haven't tried updating the Bluetooth firmware, but I was able to update the System firmware using a VM in Parallels.


----------



## FiiO

dannytang said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! I just checked their AliExpress store, but shipping cost (CAD ~$35) more than the cable (CAD ~$21). I'll send them an email and see if they can ship it with something other than DHL.


----------



## FiiO

Papa253 said:


> how do you check the version on a mac or iPhone or even a samsung note 8?????????????


Dear friend,

iPhone:




MAC:




Best regards


----------



## dannytang

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> iPhone:
> 
> ...



I stand corrected! And to add to this, the about page on the iPhone only appears when Q5 is connected via UBS-lightning.


----------



## Bookutus

Where can i find this screen?


----------



## dannytang

Bookutus said:


> Where can i find this screen?



With the Q5 connected via USB, go to Settings > General > About


----------



## Durus1

Hello. I bought Fiio BTR3 and I was very happy with the sound. I decided to improve the sound even more and bought the Fiio Q5. The problem is that the Fiio Q5 sounds much louder, but not better than BTR3. Even the output from the iPhone SE is comparable to Q5. That's why it does not make sense to wear Q5 along with the iPhone SE. I tried Q5 in the car, even at the home HiFi, but the sound was dissatisfied. Do you have any similar experience? The headphones use Sennheiser Momentum 2 and Sony YBA-2 in-air. I hear Deezer, mp3 and Flac. Thank you for your opinion.


----------



## Brooko

The iPhone SE has a very good DAC.  In your case, your headphones don't require a lot of amplification.  So you may find that there is not a lot of difference.  The Q5 is ideal paired with an iPhone driving headphones which require more power than the iPhone is able to deliver on its own.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Durus1 said:


> Hello. I bought Fiio BTR3 and I was very happy with the sound. I decided to improve the sound even more and bought the Fiio Q5. The problem is that the Fiio Q5 sounds much louder, but not better than BTR3. Even the output from the iPhone SE is comparable to Q5. That's why it does not make sense to wear Q5 along with the iPhone SE. I tried Q5 in the car, even at the home HiFi, but the sound was dissatisfied. Do you have any similar experience? The headphones use Sennheiser Momentum 2 and Sony YBA-2 in-air. I hear Deezer, mp3 and Flac. Thank you for your opinion.



I think you may have a borken Q5, in my experience, it was *much much* better than BTR3...


----------



## Durus1

I sent Q5 on a complaint, let technicians judge the technical condition of the device. I tested the Q5 with Xiaomi and Samsung phones and I'm still unhappy. I found out with Android supports volume control and iOs not, on BTR3 with iOs working. Help me change the firmware? At the moment I have the latest FW.


----------



## zeguym

zeguym said:


> Hi  everyone, want to ask about this Q5.
> I have problem with this Q5 when used  cable connection. Problem is when use this Q5 with pocophone f1 running miui 10 android pie. When i used otg type c and usb a to micro usb, when use with UAPP, when i choose allow usb, only distort sound come out. But when not choose allow usb,  it's normal but dsd logo is off. That not happening when use v20 running on Android oreo. So then o buy fiio cl06 cable. Using pocophone when sound is normal  but every few minutes, it's disconnect and reconnect again, and  it's repeatedly, so i cannot used it. It's anyone already try it with pocophone or anything that running on miui 10 android pie?



Up for this question.
is anyone using it with android 9/pie ? especially miui 10 rom. Using it on android pie (miui 10 pocophone), its disconnect every a few minutes when using cable (CL06). And try connect again, but mostly failed. I has to pull the cable and reconnect cable again.


----------



## KaiFi

So is the AM3B available anymore? Seems like it's out of stock everywhere.


----------



## MidSmoothness

More people experiencing a super bloated bass that sounds awful from the Q5? Tried two amp modules and the same result. It just sounds distorted with all my headphones/in ears. 

Did a few resets already, nothings helps.


----------



## Brooko

MidSmoothness said:


> More people experiencing a super bloated bass that sounds awful from the Q5? Tried two amp modules and the same result. It just sounds distorted with all my headphones/in ears.
> 
> Did a few resets already, nothings helps.



Check the bass boost switch.  You probably have it turned on.  Switch it off.


----------



## MidSmoothness

Brooko said:


> Check the bass boost switch.  You probably have it turned on.  Switch it off.



Nope, not the case. It sounds super distorted and unclear. Really weird experience


----------



## Brooko

Something wrong with your amp perhaps, or the source feeding it?  Mine is crystal clear - anD the Q5 like any good dac/amp measures linear under load


----------



## MidSmoothness

Brooko said:


> Something wrong with your amp perhaps, or the source feeding it?  Mine is crystal clear - anD the Q5 like any good dac/amp measures linear under load



Both amp modules show the distorted output. Used my mobile phone via the usb output and bluetooth. Ran into the problem with both connection modes


----------



## Brooko

Sounds like an issue with your Q5.  Definitely not happening here.  Looks like an RMA


----------



## MidSmoothness

Brooko said:


> Sounds like an issue with your Q5.  Definitely not happening here.  Looks like an RMA



Yeah seems pretty messed up. Bought it at AE :’(


----------



## Dabbaranks

MidSmoothness said:


> Yeah seems pretty messed up. Bought it at AE :’(



Hopefully you got it from the FiiO store on AE and it’ll all be sorted, keep us posted with how it goes


----------



## MidSmoothness

Dabbaranks said:


> Hopefully you got it from the FiiO store on AE and it’ll all be sorted, keep us posted with how it goes



Unfortunately I did not. Will see how this plays out.


----------



## xLoud

I am considering Fiio Q5 as desktop DAC with my desktop AMP. Is it a good idea or I will get better results with DACs like Schiit Modi 3, Topping D50?


----------



## Dabbaranks

xLoud said:


> I am considering Fiio Q5 as desktop DAC with my desktop AMP. Is it a good idea or I will get better results with DACs like Schiit Modi 3, Topping D50?



In my opinion the Q5 shines more as a work set up for most because of its portability and ability to take it and go in less than a couple seconds. In terms of being a home desk set up there are much much much cheaper options for a dac, and you mentioned them.


----------



## zeguym (Feb 11, 2019)

xLoud said:


> I am considering Fiio Q5 as desktop DAC with my desktop AMP. Is it a good idea or I will get better results with DACs like Schiit Modi 3, Topping D50?


only 1 problem when using it as desktop dac. It's battery. As desktop, it' mean it will always connected with PC/Laptop and it will always charging Q5 and it's not healthy to battery. For desktop for me prefer using desktop dac without any battery, imho.

i hope fiio add feature Q5 not charging when it's connected to pc/laptop, saver for battery.  I think it's not problem is Q5 run out of battery, still can connect it to power using 2nd micro usb for charging only.


----------



## Papa253

gazzington said:


> So would you all consider the m6 a great transport for the q5?


I would and I do.


----------



## Papa253 (Feb 13, 2019)

MidSmoothness said:


> More people experiencing a super bloated bass that sounds awful from the Q5? Tried two amp modules and the same result. It just sounds distorted with all my headphones/in ears.
> 
> Did a few resets already, nothings helps.


I have the same issue, returned it to Amazon for a new one. When I get the new one I'm not doing any updates because I think the problem my be with one or both the updates.


----------



## KaiFi

My only complaint about the Q5 is that music gets slightly cut off in the beginning when start playing a new song in iTunes. Happens only when connected through USB, not when I use my Schiit Eitr and connect through coax.


----------



## Dabbaranks

KaiFi said:


> My only complaint about the Q5 is that music gets slightly cut off in the beginning when start playing a new song in iTunes. Happens only when connected through USB, not when I use my Schiit Eitr and connect through coax.




Doesn’t happen with mine on iTunes, Spotify, and Jriver Media center.


----------



## KaiFi (Feb 16, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Doesn’t happen with mine on iTunes, Spotify, and Jriver Media center.



What computer do you have? I’m using a 2017 13” MacBook Pro. I’ve connected with a USB-C-to-A dongle.

I've also updated the firmware on the Q5.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I certainly have no issues at all with the Q5, bass or cutting off songs. I upgraded firmware and Bluetooth about 3 months ago so if there have been new updates since I am not on those builds. Just love the Q5. Lately been using it with the Klipsch HP-3 and the results are fantastic using either Bluetooth or USB to the Q5.


----------



## soundquality12

My two cents is, go with anything SCHIIT OVER FIIO.


----------



## Brooko

soundquality12 said:


> My two cents is, go with anything SCHIIT OVER FIIO.


Absolutely pointless post. How many portable Bluetooth amplifiers have Schiit made? And how many desktop amps and DACs has FiiO made? Two companies playing in different areas. Suggest you go back to your Schiit threads and come back when they have viable portables on offer.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Feb 16, 2019)

KaiFi said:


> What computer do you have? I’m using a 2017 13” MacBook Pro. I’ve connected with a USB-C-to-A dongle.
> 
> I've also updated the firmware on the Q5.



Pretty much exactly the same. 2016 15” MacBook Pro, USB c dongle from Amazon with fiio USB cable that came with Q5

Let me add, I updated my Q5 when I received it just a couple days before January 2019.


----------



## Dabbaranks

soundquality12 said:


> My two cents is, go with anything SCHIIT OVER FIIO.



Good joke, as a happy customer of both companies, I would confidently say Fiio is way ahead of the game in terms of build quality and technology. And cost/feature ratio isn’t even a debate.


----------



## KaiFi

I love Schiit; I use the Mani and the Eitr and I also own a Magni. But this is for my portable listening and to me, the Fiio is the best portable option for my balanced headphones too. I'm not sure why I'm having this problem and others aren't. Just unlucky, I guess. But ultimately it isn't a big enough problem to make me not want to use it.


----------



## Brooko (Feb 16, 2019)

KaiFi said:


> I love Schiit; I use the Mani and the Eitr and I also own a Magni. But this is for my portable listening and to me, the Fiio is the best portable option for my balanced headphones too. I'm not sure why I'm having this problem and others aren't. Just unlucky, I guess. But ultimately it isn't a big enough problem to make me not want to use it.


Question - is it actually the Q5 or the source which is cutting off?  Just wondering because I’m not seeing the same (connected to iPhone SE). Worth letting FiiO know so they can see if they can replicate.

EDIT - saw above post, MB as DAC.  For ref doesn’t happen to me as DAC with Linux, Spotify or JRiver Media Player


----------



## KaiFi

I'm not sure if it's the source; I guess I should try JRiver and see if it happens with that too.

I should say that playing music with iTunes + iFi Nano results in no cutting off. Just with the Q5.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Personally I have had great experiences with both companies and as you said Brooko, they swim in different ends of the pool for the most part.


----------



## MarkF786

I too have the problem with the first second of music getting cut out on my Q5. I’m using Spotify with Bluetooth on my iPhone. I believe it only happens in the first track. 

The Chord Mojo has the same problem; apparently, so does all the other Chord DACs, which is one reason I decided not to buy a Qutest.


----------



## Brooko

I wonder if it’s simply waking up the connection - losing the first second of first track?  Makes sense to try and preserve as much battery life as possible.  I’ll recheck my end as I thought from the comments it was happening constantly.


----------



## KaiFi

No, I should clarify it does not happen constantly. It doesn't happen every time I start a track. I haven't done any real experiments, but it's possible that it only happens after I wait a while, like it is _waking up the connection_.


----------



## MarkF786

Yeah, I just confirmed it happens with the first track I play in either Spotify or iTunes (though oddly not in Tidal).

If I remember correctly, on the Mojo it’s due to the DAC needing a second to lock onto the sample rate. Maybe it’s the same with the Q5.


----------



## soundquality12 (Feb 17, 2019)

Brooko said:


> Absolutely pointless post. How many portable Bluetooth amplifiers have Schiit made? And how many desktop amps and DACs has FiiO made? Two companies playing in different areas. Suggest you go back to your Schiit threads and come back when they have viable portables on offer.


Soooo are we not allowed to answer a post, with a clean and reasonable answer without getting attacked?
I have a Asgard and a Q5 and have owned a bit of quality equipment! so I am answering from actual experience and ownership!


----------



## Brooko (Feb 17, 2019)

soundquality12 said:


> Soooo are we not allowed to answer a post, with a clean and reasonable answer without getting attacked?
> I have a Asgard and a Q5 and have owned a bit of quality equipment! so I am answering from actual experience and ownership!



You can do what you want - but if you troll a thread I'm going to call you on it.  And that wasn't an attack.  If it was my post would have been removed when the mods removed yours.

This is exactly what you wrote:


> My two cents is, go with anything SCHIIT OVER FIIO.



In what world is this reasonable.  It doesn't quote any post, so it seems to be a general comment.  It doesn't answer any of the previous posters direct questions or comments.

And I'll ask again - as you seem to have ignored my request last time:

How many portable Bluetooth amplifiers have Schiit made? And how many desktop amps and DACs has FiiO made? Two companies playing in different areas.  They are 2 companies who have different target markets.  Therefore your post was pointless.  If you have further issues with my reply, rather than cluttering this thread, I'd suggest taking it to PM.

FTR I've tried some Schiit gear, and if it was more readily available and the price was right, I'd consider it.  I'd love to get my hands on a Loki eventually.

But for a DAC/amp you can use both portably and as a desktop unit, Schiit has nothing I am aware of.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Feb 17, 2019)

MarkF786 said:


> Yeah, I just confirmed it happens with the first track I play in either Spotify or iTunes (though oddly not in Tidal).
> 
> If I remember correctly, on the Mojo it’s due to the DAC needing a second to lock onto the sample rate. Maybe it’s the same with the Q5.



It is the same with Fiio, it was discussed here. Sometimes it takes a second for the DAC to initialize, when changing sample rates or when starting playback. It is the same for me 1st track with Spotify, or whem switching between - for example - mp3 44.1 and hi-res files in UAPP. You can also hear a "pop" when starting DSD playback. This is not only with FiiO, but other products too.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Brooko said:


> But for a DAC/amp you can use both portably and as a desktop unit, Schiit has nothing I am aware of.



Unless they are the first to use the Fulla 2 running only through usb power as a full time portable strapped to a phone LOL.



KaiFi said:


> No, I should clarify it does not happen constantly. It doesn't happen every time I start a track. I haven't done any real experiments, but it's possible that it only happens after I wait a while, like it is _waking up the connection_.



I just did a quick test to confirm that I still don't have any cuts between, iTunes, Spotify, and bandcamp when switching from the first track of one album to another, fairly quick switching too. Not really sure whats actually causing the cuts sorry I can't be of more help.


----------



## Sonic Defender

soundquality12 said:


> Soooo are we not allowed to answer a post, with a clean and reasonable answer without getting attacked?
> I have a Asgard and a Q5 and have owned a bit of quality equipment! so I am answering from actual experience and ownership!


Not to pile on you here mate, but I do tend to agree with Brooko in the sense that your claim, while perfectly within your right to hold and certainly to express, wasn't reasonable. The claim you made was really rather large and you did not at all offer any supportive or substantive evidence to support the claim. That is essentially what triggered the response. I have owned three Schiit products (Gungnir, Valhalla, Asgard 2) and I have owned several FiiO pieces including the Q5 which I simply love. I can't for the life of me figure what it is about FiiO products that you disagree with so much, but again, that is your right. Taking up Brooko's line of inquiry I would ask what product that Schiit produces competes directly with the Q5 for instance? My Q5 is wonderful, and I can compare it to having owned lots of quality gear as well. I think both Schiit and FiiO produce amazing products, but primarily in different segments of the marketplace and I am glad that we have both companies enriching this hobby.


----------



## showme99

KaiFi said:


> My only complaint about the Q5 is that music gets slightly cut off in the beginning when start playing a new song in iTunes. Happens only when connected through USB, not when I use my Schiit Eitr and connect through coax.


This also happens when connected via Bluetooth. Very annoying.


----------



## NovaFlyer

dannytang said:


> Does anyone know if FiiO sells the lightning to micro USB cable on its own?





soundquality12 said:


> Ditto
> I cannot find a way to replace lighting to usb micro for Apple products.



I found a replacement Lightning to mini-USB cable with right angle connectors at Audio 46 ( https://audio46.com ) in New York City.  Bought two of them today, they're US$20 each.


----------



## Floris888

So, im asking one more time , why when i play dsd files , red light doesn't turn on , on the Q5?! What im do wrong?


----------



## Immortal

Floris888 said:


> So, im asking one more time , why when i play dsd files , red light doesn't turn on , on the Q5?! What im do wrong?


What red light? if you play DSD you have the DSD sign on the side that lights up in green.





Partially OT: Is there any DAC/Amp solution similar to Q5 but for desktop computers? It means, without bluetooth/battery/etc but with the same quality (and maybe the power of AM5 amp or more). K3 lacks of power compared to Q5


----------



## Floris888

Immortal said:


> What red light? if you play DSD you have the DSD sign on the side that lights up in green.
> 
> Yes , i mean to sau green light. But it doesen't work.
> 
> ...


----------



## Brooko

It would help if we knew your source and how you were connecting to the Q5.

Is your source capable of sending DSD (ie over DoP)?

If you're trying to play via Bluetooth - it won't work - has to be a wired connection.




Floris888 said:


> So, im asking one more time , why when i play dsd files , red light doesn't turn on , on the Q5?! What im do wrong?





Floris888 said:


> Hello, i just buy , Thriller album from HDTracks in DSD , but my buton on the Q5 is stil dead. My source is an smartphone.What do i do wrong here?


----------



## Floris888

My source is an S9 + with Usb Audio pro Player using optical coax line in.


----------



## superuser1

Floris888 said:


> My source is an S9 + with Usb Audio pro Player using optical coax line in.


Sampling Rate Supported Up to 384kHz/32bit（USB IN）92KHz/24bit（COAX IN）96KHz/24bit（OPT IN） DSD Support（USB IN）DSD64/128/256


----------



## Floris888

And what cable do i need!?.


----------



## Brooko

If your phone is capable, you need to run via USB out from the phone to USB in to the Q5. I’m assuming the player app has the ability to send DSD over DoP.

I’m honestly not sure why you are so hung up on playing it natively though. It really is unlikely to make any audible difference to what you’re hearing over COAX (is in PCM format). Most DSD releases were mastered in PCM anyway. Very few recordings are direct to DSD


----------



## SteveNZ

FiiO said:


> Instruction of Upgrading the Q5 System Firmware：https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/65276.html
> How to check the firmware version on the Q5： https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/158038.html
> 
> Main changes in v0.52：
> ...



_Please_ put release dates on the firmware versions on the website given how difficult it is to find what currently installed version is.


----------



## franz12

I received ifi Pro iDSD ($2500) today, and did briefly A/Bed using the utopia and the ethers. Surprisingly, the Q5 is close. Not far behind at all.


----------



## gto88

franz12 said:


> I received ifi Pro iDSD ($2500) today, and did briefly A/Bed using the utopia and the ethers. Surprisingly, the Q5 is close. Not far behind at all.


That is encouraging for Q5.
Did you mean using Q5 as DAC only.


----------



## fgfgfg0923

AM3B discontinued...
AM3C limited amount for Japan only...
What fiio?


----------



## gazzington

fgfgfg0923 said:


> AM3B discontinued...
> AM3C limited amount for Japan only...
> What fiio?


I had read somewhere that fiio are concentrating more on the m stuff rather than the high end stuff. I hope not as that is very sad


----------



## bahamot

fgfgfg0923 said:


> AM3B discontinued...
> AM3C limited amount for Japan only...
> What fiio?


The AM3C already discontinued even in Japan


----------



## Lay.

AM3B discontinued already? Really? It has been out of stock most of the time since release.


----------



## superuser1

Is there something new coming in this line up?


----------



## fgfgfg0923

superuser1 said:


> Is there something new coming in this line up?


Yea, they said that new amp is approaching, but still What, I wanted one of these!


----------



## dannytang

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Yea, they said that new amp is approaching, but still What, I wanted one of these!



Looks like they're still available on Taobao. I might try getting one from there.


----------



## HulalaHifi (Feb 21, 2019)

Enjoyed reading the posts here about Fiio Q5. Previously I used Fiio e12, now I got a Q5 too, the Bluetooth mode sounds really good connecting to my Google Pixel 2 XL with HD audio on and use Qobuz hi res streaming as the source. I have Sennheiser HD598, Momentum 1 Over head , HD 25 Amperior , AKG Q701, they all sound really good with Q5, but I feel my AKG Q701 need more power,  so my next step is to get a AM5 and Fiio CL06 for the DAC connection from my phone, should hear better result.


----------



## FiiO

fgfgfg0923 said:


> Yea, they said that new amp is approaching, but still What, I wanted one of these!


Dear friend,

Thank you for the kind interest on our products.

Stay tuned! The new amp with 4.4 port will be released in April if everything goes well! 

Best regards


----------



## HulalaHifi (Feb 22, 2019)

I am so happy that I can set up the USB connection from my Windows 10 to my Fiio Q5 now and being able to listen to Qobuz Hi Res music in DSD mode using my AKG Q701 headphones  (here is the link of my Qobuz output setup screenshot : https://ibb.co/wJs0PXK ),  the difference of the sound between using the foo_dsd_asio output in Qobuz and using the Speaker (FIIO Q5) output is HUGE, maybe because one is running in DSD mode and the other is in Windows Wasapi mode only.  However the DSD light on my Q5 didn't come on when I play 24bit 192KHz tracks, does anyone know if that's normal? Thanks in advance.


----------



## gto88

The dsd light should only be on when you play dsd music.
24bit/192khz is not dsd, is it?


----------



## NovaFlyer

gto88 said:


> The dsd light should only be on when you play dsd music.
> 24bit/192khz is not dsd, is it?



Correct, 24/192 is not DSD.  It is great quality though!


----------



## HulalaHifi

gto88 said:


> The dsd light should only be on when you play dsd music.
> 24bit/192khz is not dsd, is it?


You are right, it's not, I got confused   I wonder how to get DSD music from Qobuz streaming, or if that's even possible.


----------



## HulalaHifi (Feb 22, 2019)

NovaFlyer said:


> Correct, 24/192 is not DSD.  It is great quality though!


Yes, especially from USB->DAC, previously I used Google Chromecast audio with my Fiio E12, and then I tried Google Chromecast audio use Optical cable connect to Fiio Q5, and I think I like the sound from my computer USB to my Fiio Q5 better.

By any chance, has anyone compared Marantz HD-DAC1 with Fiio Q5 before?


----------



## Brooko

HulalaHifi said:


> You are right, it's not, I got confused   I wonder how to get DSD music from Qobuz streaming, or if that's even possible.


To my knowledge - no-one streams DSD natively. Bandwidth would be a big issue.  Why are you fixated on lighting the DSD light?  DSD does not mean better quality.


----------



## HulalaHifi (Feb 23, 2019)

Brooko said:


> To my knowledge - no-one streams DSD natively. Bandwidth would be a big issue.  Why are you fixated on lighting the DSD light?  DSD does not mean better quality.


More for testing the device, plus I haven't listened to DSD before


----------



## Brooko

With any music, it’s about the mastering - not the container. People get hung up on bigger numbers without realising what they mean. Most DSD was actually recorded as PCM then converted (dumb eh). There is a fractionally small amount of natively recorded DSD, and that is generally mastered very well. But it’s mostly non mainstream.

A compressed DSD version vs a well mastered aac256 (quality lossy) version of the same track - the well mastered one will always sound better. The container means nothing, and for playback - anything over 16/44 is beyond our hearing anyway.


----------



## Papa253 (Feb 24, 2019)

I've run into a problem with the bass boost sounding distorted and diminishing the highs and mids.
I can say for sure if sound was distorted before the 2 updates "bluetooth, FW"

I don't recall seeing any posts regarding this issue, so I sent it back to AMZ for a replacement.

Has any one experience this problem???

I would like to know before I do any updates on the new 1?

Fyi, new 1is here and sounds like it should.

I will not update it till I get some clarification from you all and FIIO.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Feb 24, 2019)

Brooko said:


> … and for playback - anything over 16/44 is beyond our hearing anyway.


Don't tell people that, there are members of head-fi who think they are genetic anomalies who somehow can hear beyond the threshold that binds all the rest of us.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

HulalaHifi said:


> More for testing the device, plus I haven't listened to DSD before



You want to see the green light, I get this 
Go here https://www.nativedsd.com/information/welcome 
Follow the instructions and get your NativeDSD Sampler for free.
Install USB Audio Player Pro on your Android phone, set the DSD mode to "Native DSD" and the green light will go on.
There are also DSD capable players for iPhone, of Foobar2000 for PC.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Papa253 said:


> I've run into a problem with the bass boost sounding distorted and diminishing the highs and mids.
> I can say for sure if sound was distorted before the 2 updates "bluetooth, FW"
> 
> I don't recall seeing any posts regarding this issue, so I sent it back to AMZ for a replacement.
> ...


Did you confirm what version your replacement unit is running? You may be surprised if it is the version you thought was problematic. Worth looking into.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers (Feb 24, 2019)

deleted


----------



## Papa253

Sonic Defender said:


> Did you confirm what version your replacement unit is running? You may be surprised if it is the version you thought was problematic. Worth looking into.


I do indeed have the latest fw installed so it must have been a defective q5.

I will figure out how to check bluetooth version and let you know


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Is there a large difference using Bluetooth from one of the newer iPhones vs an android with hd audio and such?


----------



## Sonic Defender (Feb 25, 2019)

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Is there a large difference using Bluetooth from one of the newer iPhones vs an android with hd audio and such?


I was for quite a while only connecting to my Q5 via AAC as opposed to apt x and I have to say that I couldn't really hear a difference. With my phone, LG G6 it connects to the Q5 via AAC by default and the only way to change this is after the connection has been established to go through developer options and manually tell the phone to stream via apt x to the Q5, but this will only work for the session. Each time I reconnect I have to do this. I think Apple uses AAC if I remember correctly and if that is the case, my experience suggests that AAC sounds indistinguishable from apt x, at least in casual listening.

Edit: And just to make clear, this behaviour is not due to the LG G6. When I connect via Bluetooth to my iFi iOne it connects via apt x automatically and has never required me to use developer options. I assume this is just some configuration/incompatibility with the Q5 receiver chip. I have experienced this with a somewhat older BT headphone, the Onkyo H500BT. It would only connect via AAC as well so there can be older receiver chip issues at play.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Thanks, one more question - is the amp module in the q5 far superior to the one in the q1 mk2? I don’t really need the Bluetooth per se, although it would be nice. I’m not going to run anything but iems.


----------



## HulalaHifi (Mar 6, 2019)

KopaneDePooj said:


> You want to see the green light, I get this
> Go here https://www.nativedsd.com/information/welcome
> Follow the instructions and get your NativeDSD Sampler for free.
> Install USB Audio Player Pro on your Android phone, set the DSD mode to "Native DSD" and the green light will go on.
> There are also DSD capable players for iPhone, of Foobar2000 for PC.



Thanks! I will give a try.
update: yes, the DSD works!


----------



## HulalaHifi (Feb 26, 2019)

Got my Fiio AM5 power module today, it transformed my Q5 to a little beast, and it puts smile on my face when I am listening to Qobuz using USB connection from my Google Pixel 2 XL to Fiio Q5 via Fiio CL06  and wearing Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear headphones. It's like the first time I listened to my Naim system many years ago, I think I am satisfied for now


----------



## MidSmoothness

Just noticed an announcement about the AM3D. Completely similar as the AM3C and more widely available. Looking forward to this thing!


----------



## snellemin

MidSmoothness said:


> Just noticed an announcement about the AM3D. Completely similar as the AM3C and more widely available. Looking forward to this thing!



That is good news for sure.


----------



## Dabbaranks

MidSmoothness said:


> Just noticed an announcement about the AM3D. Completely similar as the AM3C and more widely available. Looking forward to this thing!



Looks very promising, looks like they’re introducing the THX AAA amp circuit in this new module.


----------



## gto88

AM3D, couldn't find it, care to post link of the info?


----------



## Dabbaranks

gto88 said:


> AM3D, couldn't find it, care to post link of the info?



I only saw this announcement but it’s in Japanese 

https://e-earphone.blog/?p=1304435


----------



## MidSmoothness

Dabbaranks said:


> I only saw this announcement but it’s in Japanese
> 
> https://e-earphone.blog/?p=1304435




Correct just found japanese announcements. Used google translate =)


----------



## gto88

Dabbaranks said:


> I only saw this announcement but it’s in Japanese
> 
> https://e-earphone.blog/?p=1304435


Thanks.


----------



## toughnut

What’s the advantages/improvement of new AM3C/D over AM3A/B?


----------



## Isloo

Does anyone know if LDAC is due to be supported by the Q5? Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Mar 1, 2019)

Isloo said:


> Does anyone know if LDAC is due to be supported by the Q5? Thanks.


Deleted, too off topic my apology


----------



## Isloo

Sonic Defender said:


> Deleted, too off topic my apology



Thanks for the reply. You should have kept it, as it was informative.


----------



## KaiFi

Anyone else having trouble connecting to the phone using the Fiio app? I press "Fiio BT Control" and nothing happens. Just a blank screen indefinitely. It was working when I last tried it a few days ago, but now nothing.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Isloo said:


> Thanks for the reply. You should have kept it, as it was informative.


Thanks, and yes I agree that type of information is important, but sadly it can at times take a thread really off topic and get divisive. I am glad that you at least had the opportunity to read it and seemingly found it interesting enough. Cheers.


----------



## FiiO

KaiFi said:


> Anyone else having trouble connecting to the phone using the Fiio app? I press "Fiio BT Control" and nothing happens. Just a blank screen indefinitely. It was working when I last tried it a few days ago, but now nothing.


Dear friend,

You are connecting the Q5 with your iphone via Bluetooth, right? Please try to press the reflash button in top right button of the 'Fiio BT Control' interface and check again?

Best regards


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

hey guys, so I just picked up a new Q5 last week and I really enjoy using the bluetooth functionality. Question - is there a benefit to upgrading the firmware? Can it be done through an iphone and Fiio app, or does it need to be done with a PC? Should i even bother either way?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Uncle00Jesse said:


> hey guys, so I just picked up a new Q5 last week and I really enjoy using the bluetooth functionality. Question - is there a benefit to upgrading the firmware? Can it be done through an iphone and Fiio app, or does it need to be done with a PC? Should i even bother either way?


If it is a new unit chances are it came with the latest firmware.
You can install the FiiO USB driver to a PC, connect the Q5 and check the firmware version in FiiO Control Panel > Info > Revision. If it's v 0.52 you're good for both system and Bluetooth.


----------



## gazzington

Hi
What cable do I need to plug the q5 into a fiio x5ii or ibasso dx120?
Thanks


----------



## Trainsauce

FiiO, will the AM3C/D be coming to the US market in May?  I am highly interested.


----------



## FiiO

Trainsauce said:


> FiiO, will the AM3C/D be coming to the US market in May?  I am highly interested.


Dear friend,

Thank you for the kind interest on our products. We do not have the estimated time currently. Stay tuned. 

Best regards


----------



## MidSmoothness

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Thank you for the kind interest on our products. We do not have the estimated time currently. Stay tuned.
> 
> Best regards



@JamesFiiO I’m curious about pricing as well. It seems that it will go a different route (more expensive) than the other amp modules. Am I right?


----------



## snellemin

MidSmoothness said:


> @JamesFiiO I’m curious about pricing as well. It seems that it will go a different route (more expensive) than the other amp modules. Am I right?



I figure it will be in the 180 dollar range.


----------



## evolutiontheory (Mar 10, 2019)

Can I use my Q5 as a sac whose output is used to feed a little dot mk2? Trying to figure out a way to feed my mk2 at the same time getting the Bluetooth feature of my q5.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Anyone pairing the Q5 with an ALO Rx or v5? How are you connecting the two, and can you use the pair in Bluetooth mode on the Q5?


----------



## KopaneDePooj

evolutiontheory said:


> Can I use my Q5 as a sac whose output is used to feed a little dot mk2? Trying to figure out a way to feed my mk2 at the same time getting the Bluetooth feature of my q5.





Uncle00Jesse said:


> Anyone pairing the Q5 with an ALO Rx or v5? How are you connecting the two, and can you use the pair in Bluetooth mode on the Q5?



You connect the line out of the Q5 to the input of your amps using the appropriate interconnects. The Q5 can be connected over Bluetooth with any phone / DAP / BT audio capable device


----------



## evolutiontheory

KopaneDePooj said:


> You connect the line out of the Q5 to the input of your amps using the appropriate interconnects. The Q5 can be connected over Bluetooth with any phone / DAP / BT audio capable device


Thanks !!


----------



## JAC151

Thanks to some help by @NovaFlyer , I have my current main music setup.  I plan to stack it with either velcro or some mounting tape, but I want to wait a bit more to see if this iPod touch 7th generation is real.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Apologies, as I know this question has likely been asked/answered many times before, but what is the highest quality music that the Q5 + iPhone can do over bluetooth (AAC)?  Is it 16/44?  Higher/Lower than 16/44?


----------



## NovaFlyer

JAC151 said:


> Thanks to some help by @NovaFlyer , I have my current main music setup.  I plan to stack it with either velcro or some mounting tape, but I want to wait a bit more to see if this iPod touch 7th generation is real.



Glad I could help out.  Btw, did you ever look at the Fiio case with both the iPhone/iPod and the Q5 vice stacking with velcro / tape?  Also, noticed over on the Fiio thread you're looking at the new Fiio gear...good luck!


----------



## mico1964 (Mar 18, 2019)

TheEldestBoy said:


> Apologies, as I know this question has likely been asked/answered many times before, but what is the highest quality music that the Q5 + iPhone can do over bluetooth (AAC)?  Is it 16/44?  Higher/Lower than 16/44?


Over bluetooth 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (AAC and ALAC). Even 16/48 is downsampled to 16/44.


----------



## JAC151

NovaFlyer said:


> Glad I could help out.  Btw, did you ever look at the Fiio case with both the iPhone/iPod and the Q5 vice stacking with velcro / tape?  Also, noticed over on the Fiio thread you're looking at the new Fiio gear...good luck!



I ordered the leather case from Ali Express, but the seller said they discontinued it and only sold the one designed from an iPhone 6/6s/7/8 which wouldn't work for me.  Yes, I have returned my Q5 and now I'll have to decide between the Q5s or the M11.  All this stuff is so hard. -___-

I'm still leaning toward the Q5s because the M11 - while shiny and new - is effetely the DAP equivalent of the Q5s from what I can tell and I only hear complaints about the software on FiiO's products.  Plus I'd loose my iTunes playlists.


----------



## NovaFlyer

JAC151 said:


> I ordered the leather case from Ali Express, but the seller said they discontinued it and only sold the one designed from an iPhone 6/6s/7/8 which wouldn't work for me.  Yes, I have returned my Q5 and now I'll have to decide between the Q5s or the M11.  All this stuff is so hard. -___-
> 
> I'm still leaning toward the Q5s because the M11 - while shiny and new - is effetely the DAP equivalent of the Q5s from what I can tell and I only hear complaints about the software on FiiO's products.  Plus I'd loose my iTunes playlists.



I have the same initial impressions as you, the Q5s and M11 are about the same internally.  And I definitely agree with you on the software / user interface - I prefer Apple Music or Tidal on the iPhone to the Fiio software interface based on my limited experience with M6, M9 and X7 II.


----------



## ObjectVoice (Mar 25, 2019)

So, I was just testing an Ipod through my new Q5 via a 3.5mm interconnect into the line in port on the Q5, running out of the Q5 into a pair of balanced-cable HD650s. The green working status indicator on the Q5 was glowing steadily and, yep, it sounded pretty good even from the headphone port on my 7th Gen Ipod. I thought I'd then compare this to the same track played via usb line out from a Shanling M3s - so I ran an interconnect USB C to Micro USB from the Shanling in USB Line Out mode to the micro usb in port on the Q5. Things were fine for a moment or two - the indicator light now showing steady white for USB input - and then the sound cut off, the Shanling displayed 'Device disconnected' and the Q5 indicator light started flashing white. I unplugged and re-plugged: still no sound and straight into 'device disconnected' on the Shanling and the white flashing indicator on the Q5 again. So this freaked me out a bit. I wondered if this flashing white light indicated that the battery was on the point of running out so I plugged in a powered micro usb to the side power port of the Q5: the flashing stopped and the audio resumed. So it _must _have been the battery running out I thought? I looked it up on the manual: nope, intermittent flashing _red _lights for battery running out. Then I thought about it a bit more: the Q5 shouldn't have run out of power, I charged it fully last night and have listened for about 45 minutes only this evening - maybe it's the USB interconnect that's faulty? So I swapped this USB interconnect for another one - everything is now fine: Shanling happy, Fiio happy, ears happy. Weird.

So, it's _probably _a dodgy USB cable? But what does the flashing white status indicator light on the Q5 mean in this context? And why might it have _resumed _working when I put the powered USB cable into the side port? Anyone have any ideas?

PS: Maybe my Shanling was charging the Q5? I do know that the replacement USB cable I used is a non-power, data only one (CL06, in fact) but I don't know this about the first cable I used. Maybe the flashing indicator means: 'You are charging the data port, Will Robinson! Danger!'


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Mar 26, 2019)

ObjectVoice said:


> So, I was just testing an Ipod through my new Q5 via a 3.5mm interconnect into the line in port on the Q5, running out of the Q5 into a pair of balanced-cable HD650s. The green working status indicator on the Q5 was glowing steadily and, yep, it sounded pretty good even from the headphone port on my 7th Gen Ipod. I thought I'd then compare this to the same track played via usb line out from a Shanling M3s - so I ran an interconnect USB C to Micro USB from the Shanling in USB Line Out mode to the micro usb in port on the Q5. Things were fine for a moment or two - the indicator light now showing steady white for USB input - and then the sound cut off, the Shanling displayed 'Device disconnected' and the Q5 indicator light started flashing white. I unplugged and re-plugged: still no sound and straight into 'device disconnected' on the Shanling and the white flashing indicator on the Q5 again. So this freaked me out a bit. I wondered if this flashing white light indicated that the battery was on the point of running out so I plugged in a powered micro usb to the side power port of the Q5: the flashing stopped and the audio resumed. So it _must _have been the battery running out I thought? I looked it up on the manual: nope, intermittent flashing _red _lights for battery running out. Then I thought about it a bit more: the Q5 shouldn't have run out of power, I charged it fully last night and have listened for about 45 minutes only this evening - maybe it's the USB interconnect that's faulty? So I swapped this USB interconnect for another one - everything is now fine: Shanling happy, Fiio happy, ears happy. Weird.
> 
> So, it's _probably _a dodgy USB cable? But what does the flashing white status indicator light on the Q5 mean in this context? And why might it have _resumed _working when I put the powered USB cable into the side port? Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> PS: Maybe my Shanling was charging the Q5? I do know that the replacement USB cable I used is a non-power, data only one (CL06, in fact) but I don't know this about the first cable I used. Maybe the flashing indicator means: 'You are charging the data port, Will Robinson! Danger!'



Yes, you were reverse charging from the Shanling to the Q5. Flashing white on the Q5 means "charging". There is no "danger, Will R."  , the USB port on the amp module can charge and transfer data at the same time, is just that the battery on the Shanling was draining and maybe it is not designed to charge and connect OTG device at the same time hence it disconnected the OTG function. Now with the CL06, you have the right cable for the job. I have the same one - no problems.

But if you just bought the Q5, maybe you can return it and wait for the Q5s to come out in 2 months.


----------



## ObjectVoice

KopaneDePooj said:


> Yes, you were reverse charging from the Shanling to the Q5. [...]
> But if you just bought the Q5, maybe you can return it and wait for the Q5s to come out in 2 months.



Thanks very much for responding. I posted in a bit of a panic last night and only then read the thread backwards for 50 pages till I just about figured it out - but it's reassuring to know that one is on ground where others have trod! I bought the Q5 second-hand and can't afford a new Q5s! I really like the Q5 though - just awesome audio quality so it's definitely a keeper.


----------



## toughnut (Mar 27, 2019)

4 months of frustration and pointless back and fro shipments, starting with faulty amp unit.

Nov 28, 2018 - Contacted FiiO and troubleshoot.

Dec 1, 2018 - Send package to FiiO.

Dec 9, 2018 - Package reach local post office.

Multiple PMs, no response.

Dec 17, 2018 - Informed package picked up.

PMs with no response on what’s wrong with unit.

Dec 21, 2018 - PM stating no update from engineering dept.


Moment of silence...


Dec 27, 2018 - FiiO provides explanation (amp unit faulty due to some weird reason) and tracking number.

Jan 15, 2019 - Package collected. However unit mangled as FiiO seem to take the main unit apart then glued back the faux leather backing, leaving messy glue marks. New scratches and dents on the unit.

Jan 17, 2019 - FiiO responded, arrange for shipment back borne by them. However shipment delayed due to clash with Lunar New Year.

Feb 12, 2019 - Send the package back to FiiO.

Feb 20, 2019 - FiiO received and arranged for replacement unit.

Long silence again pushing for update.

Mar 15, 2019 - Replacement unit received but I was away.

Mar 25, 2019 - Reached home and checked the unit. Amp unit incorrect, was send AM3A albeit reminder to send correct AM3B earlier in PM. Send PM with no response. I still give benefit of doubt to @FiiO as he might still be occupied with recent product launch PR.


----------



## F700

Waiting for Q5s... or not, because the Q5 already delivers


----------



## K1030

Does the bass boost & gain switch on the Q5 affect the sound of the analog line-out like the standard headphone outputs or just do nothing? Forgive me if this has been addressed before.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

K1030 said:


> Does the bass boost & gain switch on the Q5 affect the sound of the analog line-out like the standard headphone outputs or just do nothing? Forgive me if this has been addressed before.


It does nothing on line-out.


----------



## K1030

KopaneDePooj said:


> It does nothing on line-out.


Thanks!


----------



## F700

Hi everyone, my Q5 with AM3B module and leather case is for sale: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-q5-with-am3a-am3b-module-leather-case.904415/


----------



## beholdclarity

I wanted to share my impressions of the Q5 because I recently purchased it.

I'm in no way to be considered an experienced guy, but I have compared the Q5 to the BTR3 and the Mojo Chord.

Functionality wise the Q5 beats them all.

The Bluetooth capability is fine
It has enough choices for output (balanced is nice)
The volume knob is decent with enough precision
Input directly via Lightning cable (supplied with the Q5) is cool, too
I had high hopes for the Q5 to remedy two of my main concerns with the BTR3/Mojo combo I already had:

The BTR3 has not enough power for high impedance Headphones
The BTR3 assaults you with it's high-volume low-quality start-up and shut-down sounds

The Mojo alone requires cable connection at all times
Both Mojo and BTR3 don't offer a decent volume knob (Mojo has enough levels for precision, but I find the balls cumbersome)

However, I was slightly disappointed with the sound quality combined with my B&W P9 and the CA Andromeda.
The sound was a bit too bright for my liking. With the CA Andromeda on low gain, there was some noticeable hissing. Not as much as with Mojo, but definitely more than with the BTR3, which is dead silent to me.

Long story short; I'm staying with the Mojo/BTR3 combination for now


----------



## beholdclarity

I was listening to it again and I have to admit I do like the design and form factor of the device.
It has all the features I want in a portable BT DAC/AMP.

I'm selling my Mojo due to the fact that I converted now to IEM's fully.

My question is this:

Is it worth the risk to keep the Q5 and invest in another module like the AM2A? It has lower OI with around 0.3 as opposed to 1.4 of the AM3A.
Will this make the Q5 a bit smoother and warmer for IEMs with low impedance?


----------



## MidSmoothness

beholdclarity said:


> I was listening to it again and I have to admit I do like the design and form factor of the device.
> It has all the features I want in a portable BT DAC/AMP.
> 
> I'm selling my Mojo due to the fact that I converted now to IEM's fully.
> ...



I would say yes, but difference isn’t that noticeable. I have both amp modules and I would rather invest in the upcoming AM3D module.


----------



## beholdclarity

I went ahead and ordered a AM2A module for the Q5. I swapped it out tonight for a test, which was very easy and convenient. I noticed right away that the colours don't match the housing 100% which is _meh_. But okay, the Q5 isn't that nicely built. Looks good at first, but doesn't quite feel right and audio-ish, if you know what I mean. A little _synthetic_.

I think I noticed a difference right off the bat. I tested the module with my Bowers P9 first, just because I head them laying around. The difference was obvious; there is a lot more warmth and oomph compared to the AM3A. Just what I had wanted! Resolution was also there.

Then came the real test; my Andromedas. You know how picky they are.
First note: The AM2A is not exactly black or dead silent. Not like the BTR3 to me, anyway. But still, there is an improvement. The hiss certainly is tolerable and does not interfere with my hearing when music plays. During silent parts in the music, I didn't notice it.

The Andromeda, which I have come to respect very much, have been exceedingly -_uncomfortably_- clear and detailed with the Q5 and AM3A module. The combination was just too bright!

The AM2A has smoothed that over quite a bit. The sound signature is still brighter and much more detailed than the BTR3 and muuuuuuch brighter and more detailed than the Mojo. There is still a bit too much attack in the cymbals for my liking with the Andromeda, but the detail, soundstage, imaging... it's all improved.

I'm going to continue playing with it further and see if we can get along


----------



## beholdclarity (Apr 19, 2019)

I have been playing around with the Q5 a little bit more and I'd like to share some additional thoughts.

My initial complaints were:


The Q5 in conjunction with the Andromeda is too bright for my liking
Nothing else








The obvious route and why I didn't do it: EQ dat thing

I am not particularly skilled when it comes to utilising Equalizers nor am I inclined to teach myself that skill. It feels like bending the sound too much, when I do it. So no, that was out of the question.






An alternative presents itself: Low pass filter

To my surprise, the companion app to the Q5 (Fiio music app) offers some nifty options. You can flip charging and input USB ports and you can also choose between five low-pass filter modes. I had no idea you could do that.
It was set to: sharp roll-off by default. I started playing some music and went back to the app switching the modes while still listening to music. The changes are very subtle, except for the sharp roll-off. That one stood out and was, to my ears, sharp and edgy sounding. All the others were much more relaxed in the upper highs. So I settled for super-slow roll off.

I am well aware that much of this stuff is highly individual and I am subject to auto-suggestion. But still, the Q5 lets you go A/B very quickly while music plays. You can settle for the mode you prefer, although much of it is just very subtle. You won't change the signature completely.






What did I get in the end?

I am now operating the FiiO Q5 with the AM2A module set to super-slow roll off in low gain mode with Bass boost off. This has bestowed me with highly complex and clear Andromedas without sharp spikes in the highs. The lows are black and dry and pack one hell of a punch. I would not describe the signature as warm, it is still on the clear and analytical side with a multitude of layered details.

A note on hiss:

Even with the AM2A (which is recommended for the use with IEMs) the Andromeda hisses noticeably during quiet sections of music. I am not fully decided if that is going to bother me in the long run or not. But that is, as has been well noted on other occasions, largely the Andromedas fault


----------



## khyaris

I am experiencing some bright clicking sound on high hats in specific songs ... It's not the case everywhere, mainly in electronic music.
This is weird, I'm using the unit in bluetooth through my pixel 3, never had this issue before. 

Can you guys try this song through apt-x and let me know if you experience it ? 
 

Thanks


----------



## KopaneDePooj

beholdclarity said:


> I have been playing around with the Q5 a little bit more and I'd like to share some additional thoughts.
> 
> My initial complaints were:
> 
> ...



Didn't find any obvious differences between low pass filters either. Maybe with your super sensitive IEM's there's more.
Anyways... I just quoted your post to say: nice photos!


----------



## toughnut

Update:

Apr 24, 2019 - Replacement AM3B received. Tested working as intended. 

Finally 5 months ordeal ended. Thanks @FiiO for that.



toughnut said:


> 4 months of frustration and pointless back and fro shipments, starting with faulty amp unit.
> 
> Nov 28, 2018 - Contacted FiiO and troubleshoot.
> 
> ...


----------



## Steve Guppy

Hi Head-Fi'ers 

Just bagged myself one of these on eBay for £210 still wrapped, which seemed like too good an offer to pass up. 

Using with my Note 9 and BGVP DM6's , and so far I'm loving it  

My question to everyone is, what improvements do the various firmwares bring? More importantly  do they improve the audio? I'm using mostly connected via USB, but will also use BT from time to time. Do the firmware updates do anything to improve the sound quality over these two options?

Any advice or help you can give me will be much appreciated


----------



## K1030

Steve Guppy said:


> Hi Head-Fi'ers
> 
> Just bagged myself one of these on eBay for £210 still wrapped, which seemed like too good an offer to pass up.
> 
> ...


Firmware improves stability. Not only with the device but it's compatibility with other devices. Connecting the device digitally via optical, coax, or USB cable utilizes its internal DAC and yields the best audio. Using the analog 3.5 mm input depends on the source and utilizes the Q5 only as an amplifier. Bluetooth connection is a slight degradation of sound quality for the sake of convenience but nearly imperceptible; especially if listening to compressed tracks such as Apple music, Spotify, YouTube, or common MP3s. 

Also utilizing the Fiio music app if opens the ability to change low-pass filters; directly affecting SQ albeit quite subtly.


----------



## Steve Guppy

K1030 said:


> Firmware improves stability. Not only with the device but it's compatibility with other devices. Connecting the device digitally via optical, coax, or USB cable utilizes its internal DAC and yields the best audio. Using the analog 3.5 mm input depends on the source and utilizes the Q5 only as an amplifier. Bluetooth connection is a slight degradation of sound quality for the sake of convenience but nearly imperceptible; especially if listening to compressed tracks such as Apple music, Spotify, YouTube, or common MP3s.
> 
> Also utilizing the Fiio music app if opens the ability to change low-pass filters; directly affecting SQ albeit quite subtly.



Thanks @K1030

I was aware of the app to change various settings via BT. And of how the other functions work. 
So just to clarify, the firmware doesn't alter the audio at all? Either in BT or USB? Just wondered as the best BT connection I get is aptX 16bit 44.1khz. And i have various Sony BT speakers which allow LDAC 24bit 96khz. Is the BT codec the same after update?


----------



## K1030 (Apr 28, 2019)

Steve Guppy said:


> Thanks @K1030
> 
> I was aware of the app to change various settings via BT. And of how the other functions work.
> So just to clarify, the firmware doesn't alter the audio at all? Either in BT or USB? Just wondered as the best BT connection I get is aptX 16bit 44.1khz. And i have various Sony BT speakers which allow LDAC 24bit 96khz. Is the BT codec the same after update?



The Fiio Q5 does not support LDAC as it's Bluetooth transmitter is not capable of utilizing the coded (I believe). The upcoming Q5s will be LDAC  compatible
The firmware updates for the Q5 have not affected sound quality thus far.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Is there a new thread for the new Q5 DAC/AMP from FiiO?


----------



## gto88

There is a new Q5?
Couldn't find anything about it.


----------



## Dobrescu George

gto88 said:


> There is a new Q5?
> Couldn't find anything about it.



I think it was announced with the new line of FiiO products, it was named Q5S if I'm not mistaken (?)


----------



## gto88

Ah, I see it:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...output-usb-bluetooth-spdif-line-input.902614/


----------



## Sonic Defender

gto88 said:


> There is a new Q5?
> Couldn't find anything about it.


Q5S is coming out soon.


----------



## Spadge (May 4, 2019)

gto88 said:


> There is a new Q5?
> Couldn't find anything about it.



Fiio Q5s
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-q5s-the-newly-updated-flagship-bluetooth-dac-amplifier-dual-ak4493-dac-chips-xmos-xuf208-usb-csr8675-amplifier-module-am3e-with-2-5-3-5-4-4mm-output-usb-bluetooth-spdif-line-input.902614/

(Edit, sorry - too slow)


----------



## soundquality12 (May 9, 2019)

I have the Q5
For me it is a WASTE of $$$
The one cord you buy with the unit gets broken or lost. It cost close to buying a new unit to replace with shipping from some guy in china.
Tell me if anyone has found a good hardwire/usb to apple lighting cable replacement, for a good price, as in $10 not $100 and how much total cost to the east coast of the USA.
Thank you.


----------



## MidSmoothness

soundquality12 said:


> I have the Q5
> For me it is a WASTE of $$$
> The one cord you buy with the unit gets broken or lost. It cost close to buying a new unit to replace with shipping from some guy in china.
> Tell me if anyone has found a good hardwire replacement for a good price, and how much total cost to the east coast of the USA.
> Thank you.



What cord are you referring to?


----------



## jrprana

soundquality12 said:


> I have the Q5
> For me it is a WASTE of $$$
> The one cord you buy with the unit gets broken or lost. It cost close to buying a new unit to replace with shipping from some guy in china.
> Tell me if anyone has found a good hardwire/usb to apple lighting cable replacement, for a good price, as in $10 not $100 and how much total cost to the east coast of the USA.
> Thank you.



I purchased one from Audio46 in NYC. It cost me $20 if I'm not mistaken


----------



## NovaFlyer

jrprana said:


> I purchased one from Audio46 in NYC. It cost me $20 if I'm not mistaken



I purchased two of the micro-usb to lightning cables back in Feb, and you're correct, they're about $20 each.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Really enjoying the Q5 driving my SE Monitor 5 via balanced with my LG G7 as a USB source. Very engaging and I intend to next listen to the M9 with the same material and setup to compare.


----------



## gazzington

Hi. I've lost the cable to connect my iPod touch to a q5. Does anybody know where I can get another?


----------



## Dobrescu George

gazzington said:


> Hi. I've lost the cable to connect my iPod touch to a q5. Does anybody know where I can get another?



Contact @FiiO  directly


----------



## simonecosta75

Hi everyone
I've been looking for a cable for a while to connect Q5 to my Iphone X
But I find nothing, which is straight and not with an L , good quality and around 50 cm of lenght 
you know in italy / europa if someone sells them?
thank you


----------



## Kiba No Ou

Anyone compared the Q5 with DX3 Pro?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Kiba No Ou said:


> Anyone compared the Q5 with DX3 Pro?



Actually, we had at some point at a romnian audiophile meeting. 

I need to ask a friend if he still has both, I remember he had @dusty.ro


----------



## Kiba No Ou

Dobrescu George said:


> Actually, we had at some point at a romnian audiophile meeting.
> 
> I need to ask a friend if he still has both, I remember he had @dusty.ro


Would be greatly appreciated, I can get the DX3 Pro for really cheap and seeing that FiiO has just released the Q5s after buying the Q5 some months ago drives me crazy honestly...


----------



## OneL0ve

What happened to the Q5 support? We got that last big 052 firmware, but no new firmware after that. It been a long time. 

Has Fiio abandoned Q5 already?


----------



## OneL0ve

Kiba No Ou said:


> Would be greatly appreciated, I can get the DX3 Pro for really cheap and seeing that FiiO has just released the Q5s after buying the Q5 some months ago drives me crazy honestly...



Q5S? WTH?


----------



## Kiba No Ou

OneL0ve said:


> Q5S? WTH?


Here you go!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...output-usb-bluetooth-spdif-line-input.902614/


----------



## KopaneDePooj

OneL0ve said:


> What happened to the Q5 support? We got that last big 052 firmware, but no new firmware after that. It been a long time.
> 
> Has Fiio abandoned Q5 already?



Do you have any specific problem or improvement request that require a new firmware release or you just like to make updates? 
This is not a DAP or phone, it just performs a single task, and as long as it does it properly, it doesn't need a new firmware.


----------



## OneL0ve

KopaneDePooj said:


> Do you have any specific problem or improvement request that require a new firmware release or you just like to make updates?
> This is not a DAP or phone, it just performs a single task, and as long as it does it properly, it doesn't need a new firmware.



Yes, I like shiny things. 

I can only remember one single firmware version when the Q5 was first released. That's usually not the Fiio way and just thought it was strange. 

Also, I remember Fiio saying something about new Q5 features coming or maybe I am getting my Fiio devices mixed up.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I think the Q5 is probably as mature as it needs to be for optimal performance. I would guess that for maximum forward compatibility FiiO will put their efforts into the Q5s. For my needs the Q5 as is will be fine. I ordered the AM3D today and the BL-44 adapter as I wanted to hear the THX AAA amp. I am actually pretty darn satisfied with the Q5 and I think it is absolutely scary just how good these really small footprint devices can sound. I won't lie, it makes me wonder how much money we waste on these big full size devices simply because our social training has taught us to believe that the big full sized gear is so much better.

Don't get me wrong, I know full well that with truly demanding loads like an HE6, or other such headphones these small footprint devices aren't quite able to stand toe to toe with the full sized rigs, but for efficient headphones, personally I think they are right there. Thank you FiiO for pushing the category of portable gear so far forward, IMO.


----------



## Kiba No Ou

Anyone has compared the Q5 Balanced with the Fostex HP-A4BL?


----------



## starfly

Just picked up one of these.  Nice amp/dac!


----------



## snellemin

starfly said:


> Just picked up one of these.  Nice amp/dac!



Nice.  But it gets even nicer with the AM3D amp module.


----------



## starfly

snellemin said:


> Nice.  But it gets even nicer with the AM3D amp module.



Pretty sure that's overkill with the IEMs and headphones I have, so I'll save myself $150


----------



## Steve Guppy

starfly said:


> Just picked up one of these.  Nice amp/dac!



I absolutely bloody love mine. Picked it up for £210 un-opened on Ebay. Use it in conjunction with my FH5 and DM6 on the balanced output. It's good enough for me!


----------



## MarkF786

snellemin said:


> Nice.  But it gets even nicer with the AM3D amp module.



I continue to vacillate on my decision to get the AM3D.  I have most other amp modules (AM1, AM2, AM2A, AM3A, AM5), and I have a mix of 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced cables so the AM3E seems like the best option since it supports both balance outputs.  The AM3D is tempting at well (though I'll need an adapter with some headphones), but with the current markup + tax, it costs over $190 (plus $20 for a 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter)!  If I could buy it for $150, I'd probably pull the trigger, but the 25% markup for early adopters is a bit extreme.

Many nights I've been one click from completing the transaction - and then I decide to wait another month or so until it's available in the US (or the AM3E is available, which I'd probably use the most for convenience).


----------



## MarkF786

Uggh, I made the mistake of buying the AM3D from Aliexpress - which immediately gave me an error from AliPay, "You haven't signed in, or your previous session has expired. Please sign in again" - with no actual option to sign in.  Meanwhile I got an email that my credit card was charged, and another email that unless I verify my payment in 24 hours my order will be canceled.  Googling all this, there are many people complaining of battling this problem for weeks, meanwhile being charged for a product that never shipped.

Gotta love these Chinese websites.  Two weeks ago when I originally thought of ordering the AM3D, I spent several hours to get it to stop displaying Russian text on the webpage.

Life's too short for this crap.


----------



## Sonic Defender

MarkF786 said:


> I continue to vacillate on my decision to get the AM3D.  I have most other amp modules (AM1, AM2, AM2A, AM3A, AM5), and I have a mix of 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced cables so the AM3E seems like the best option since it supports both balance outputs.  The AM3D is tempting at well (though I'll need an adapter with some headphones), but with the current markup + tax, it costs over $190 (plus $20 for a 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter)!  If I could buy it for $150, I'd probably pull the trigger, but the 25% markup for early adopters is a bit extreme.
> 
> Many nights I've been one click from completing the transaction - and then I decide to wait another month or so until it's available in the US (or the AM3E is available, which I'd probably use the most for convenience).


You can order it from a Canadian site on the westcoast, headphonebar.com. I received mine in 3 days. It was $199 Canadian, but for you in the US I think the exchange rate will drop that price by about 30% so not too bad. Not sure if they have stock still mind you. I would also assume there are US resellers, but if not give headphonebar.com a try. I have bought several things from them before and have been very pleased. Cheers.


----------



## MarkF786

Sonic Defender said:


> You can order it from a Canadian site on the westcoast, headphonebar.com. I received mine in 3 days. It was $199 Canadian, but for you in the US I think the exchange rate will drop that price by about 30% so not too bad. Not sure if they have stock still mind you. I would also assume there are US resellers, but if not give headphonebar.com a try. I have bought several things from them before and have been very pleased. Cheers.



Thanks for the heads-up, but I previously checked and they don't appear to ship to the US.  When using their online shopping, it wouldn't allow me to change the country to anything but Canada, and the website only states it ships to anywhere in Canada.  I should email them though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

MarkF786 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up, but I previously checked and they don't appear to ship to the US.  When using their online shopping, it wouldn't allow me to change the country to anything but Canada, and the website only states it ships to anywhere in Canada.  I should email them though.


Never hurts to ask, bummer if they can't. I know that you have the other modules, but I get the sense that you're a bit of a collector and if so you know you'll want this module. I can't say for sure that I hear any difference over the stock AM3A module as I haven't tried, but I really love what I am hearing with the AM3D module. Placebo, expectation bias, possibly, but it doesn't really matter. I wanted to try the AM3D and it sounds fantastic and I have no regrets at all and I am not going to obsess or worry about if it sounds better/different. I plan to simply enjoy my Q5 for years to come, what a great little device.


----------



## starfly

So I'm noticing with the Q5 that sometimes there is a slight ticking noise being fed to my headphones (using AM3A module).  I'm using it right next to my cell phone (that's the source).  It appears to vary the farther I move it away from my phone, but once I remove the OTG cable (using the Fiio CL06 cable) it stops completely, and the ticking noise only appears to be generated with that cable attached, which is interesting.

Is this a known issue, is the Q5 prone to interference?  Could I have a defective cable?

I tried another OTG cable I have, but for some reason with that cable the Q5 switches to charging mode, so it starts to drain my battery.  The Fiio CL06 cable doesn't do that.


----------



## Steve Guppy

starfly said:


> So I'm noticing with the Q5 that sometimes there is a slight ticking noise being fed to my headphones (using AM3A module).  I'm using it right next to my cell phone (that's the source).  It appears to vary the farther I move it away from my phone, but once I remove the OTG cable (using the Fiio CL06 cable) it stops completely, and the ticking noise only appears to be generated with that cable attached, which is interesting.
> 
> Is this a known issue, is the Q5 prone to interference?  Could I have a defective cable?
> 
> I tried another OTG cable I have, but for some reason with that cable the Q5 switches to charging mode, so it starts to drain my battery.  The Fiio CL06 cable doesn't do that.



Maybe @JamesFiiO can come in and clarify this, but i had interference in a big way using my Q1ii with my phone when it was connected to the network or WiFi. Definitely not found the issue anywhere near as bad with my Q5  but it does happen. As far as I can tell its phone network/wifi signal being picked up by the amp as noise. Try connecting it again  but this time, hit airplane mode, and see if that stops it. It worked for me


----------



## toughnut

Sonic Defender said:


> Never hurts to ask, bummer if they can't. I know that you have the other modules, but I get the sense that you're a bit of a collector and if so you know you'll want this module. I can't say for sure that I hear any difference over the stock AM3A module as I haven't tried, but I really love what I am hearing with the AM3D module. Placebo, expectation bias, possibly, but it doesn't really matter. I wanted to try the AM3D and it sounds fantastic and I have no regrets at all and I am not going to obsess or worry about if it sounds better/different. I plan to simply enjoy my Q5 for years to come, what a great little device.



If you don’t mind, can provide some insight of AM3D vs AM3A? TIA


----------



## starfly

Steve Guppy said:


> Maybe @JamesFiiO can come in and clarify this, but i had interference in a big way using my Q1ii with my phone when it was connected to the network or WiFi. Definitely not found the issue anywhere near as bad with my Q5  but it does happen. As far as I can tell its phone network/wifi signal being picked up by the amp as noise. Try connecting it again  but this time, hit airplane mode, and see if that stops it. It worked for me



Yeah I'll try that to eliminate it being network/wifi being picked up (though of course when I need to stream I can't turn on airplane mode).  Otherwise, @JamesFiiO please chime in


----------



## Steve Guppy

starfly said:


> Yeah I'll try that to eliminate it being network/wifi being picked up (though of course when I need to stream I can't turn on airplane mode).  Otherwise, @JamesFiiO please chime in



Yeah, that is annoying. Although I often use BT mode if I'm using my Q5 to watch YouTube, etc, as I don't stream music (I'm old skool, i like a downloaded flac, etc). That way I can keep enough distance between the two to eliminate the interference.


----------



## Sonic Defender

toughnut said:


> If you don’t mind, can provide some insight of AM3D vs AM3A? TIA


Well, as I haven't gone back and forth I can't say with any certainty, but I think both modules sound equally good, but that is going by memory. I found the AM3A to be well more than adequate with all three headphones I use it with (HD700, HP-3 and SE Monitor 5). I am not sure that there are audible differences, but do take that with a grain of salt as since receiving the AM3D I have used it exclusively. I will say that the AM3D is lovely and neutral and exhibits fantastic control over the drivers. I think we need to give it up to FiiO as their organizational skill at crafting and mass producing really well voiced and technically stunning, affordable, small-footprint designs is second to none. If money really isn't an issue I would just grab the AM3D and see what you think. I feel having the 4.4mm balanced input is nicely forward compatible (plus it looks awesome!). I still love my Q5 as much as the day I first received it, what a great device, seriously love that thing.


----------



## starfly

Sonic Defender said:


> Well, as I haven't gone back and forth I can't say with any certainty, but I think both modules sound equally good, but that is going by memory. I found the AM3A to be well more than adequate with all three headphones I use it with (HD700, HP-3 and SE Monitor 5). I am not sure that there are audible differences, but do take that with a grain of salt as since receiving the AM3D I have used it exclusively. I will say that the AM3D is lovely and neutral and exhibits fantastic control over the drivers. I think we need to give it up to FiiO as their organizational skill at crafting and mass producing really well voiced and technically stunning, affordable, small-footprint designs is second to none. If money really isn't an issue I would just grab the AM3D and see what you think. I feel having the 4.4mm balanced input is nicely forward compatible (plus it looks awesome!). I still love my Q5 as much as the day I first received it, what a great device, seriously love that thing.



Yeah, Fiio makes really excellent value for money equipment.  And I'd say they no longer belong to the Chi-Fi category, I think Fiio is a more than respectable brand and they can stand on their own now.


----------



## MarkF786

starfly said:


> Yeah, Fiio makes really excellent value for money equipment.  And I'd say they no longer belong to the Chi-Fi category, I think Fiio is a more than respectable brand and they can stand on their own now.



I agree they're better than the average "Chi-Fi" company, but they still have much further to go to have a higher level of professionalism for an international client base.  For example, their advertising and documentation needs to be reviewed by people who natively speak the targeted language.  And their software and update processes need further refinement and polish.

Audiophile enthusiasts can overlook some of these flaws, but the average consumer would immediately spot the difference between FiiO and the likes of more established brands like Sony, Sennheiser, Shure, Beyerdynamic, etc.

I really like many of FiiO's product - but I frequently encounter quirks that frustrate me and make me think they're an amateurish company.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Listening to the Q5/AM3D combination now. Damn fine sounding. I do agree that there is some room for improvement in other aspects of their business model, but when push comes to shove and we are evaluating bang for the buck sound quality, FiiO brings it plain and simple. I also think their designs from an aesthetic perspective have come quite a long way. I still remember the E11 I bought way back when. Oddly enough I still have the metal tin and cardboard sleeve kicking around here somewhere ...


----------



## Sonic Defender

starfly said:


> Yeah, Fiio makes really excellent value for money equipment.  And I'd say they no longer belong to the Chi-Fi category, I think Fiio is a more than respectable brand and they can stand on their own now.


I agree. Hopefully as they move forward they don't add the management bloat salary burden that necessitates higher prices. Success and growth can bring with it negative consequences, but I'll hold out hope that FiiO always strives first and foremost to be the industry leader in price to performance.


----------



## starfly

starfly said:


> Yeah I'll try that to eliminate it being network/wifi being picked up (though of course when I need to stream I can't turn on airplane mode).  Otherwise, @JamesFiiO please chime in



So, as suspected, turning on airplane mode completely eliminates the ticking noise, so it's LTE/WiFi interference that's being picked up.  Anyone know of any tricks to minimize that interference?


----------



## MarkF786

starfly said:


> So, as suspected, turning on airplane mode completely eliminates the ticking noise, so it's LTE/WiFi interference that's being picked up.  Anyone know of any tricks to minimize that interference?



I intermittently have the problem, both with my Q5 and Mojo. I generally use a longer USB cable or use Bluetooth, and keep the devices further apart.


----------



## starfly

MarkF786 said:


> I intermittently have the problem, both with my Q5 and Mojo. I generally use a longer USB cable or use Bluetooth, and keep the devices further apart.



Can you recommend a good USB-C OTG to Micro USB cable that will not trigger charge mode on the Q5?  I have a slightly longer USB OTG cable, but that always triggers charge mode, so it starts to drain my phone's battery.


----------



## snellemin

starfly said:


> Can you recommend a good USB-C OTG to Micro USB cable that will not trigger charge mode on the Q5?  I have a slightly longer USB OTG cable, but that always triggers charge mode, so it starts to drain my phone's battery.


Shanling L2 Type-C to Micro USB Audio Cable is my cable of choice.  25 bucks on Amazon.


----------



## Steve Guppy

snellemin said:


> Shanling L2 Type-C to Micro USB Audio Cable is my cable of choice.  25 bucks on Amazon.



I use this cable too, but it's barely longer than the CL06 FiiO item. 8 think what he was asking was for a much longer cable to distance the Q5 from the phone? 
Shanling L2


----------



## starfly

snellemin said:


> Shanling L2 Type-C to Micro USB Audio Cable is my cable of choice.  25 bucks on Amazon.



Thanks, but that's the same length as my Fiio CL06 cable, so that probably won't make much of a difference


----------



## snellemin

starfly said:


> Thanks, but that's the same length as my Fiio CL06 cable, so that probably won't make much of a difference


You can always add a usb C extension.


----------



## Steve Guppy

starfly said:


> Thanks, but that's the same length as my Fiio CL06 cable, so that probably won't make much of a difference



Try Penon Audio. I've always found they have a good selection of often hard-to-find cables.. Worth a try


----------



## starfly

Steve Guppy said:


> Try Penon Audio. I've always found they have a good selection of often hard-to-find cables.. Worth a try



Yeah, good idea, thanks.  Actually just ordered a 2-pin SPC cable for my CIEM from there, and I've noticed you can find decent stuff for a good price there.


----------



## Steve Guppy

starfly said:


> Yeah, good idea, thanks.  Actually just ordered a 2-pin SPC cable for my CIEM from there, and I've noticed you can find decent stuff for a good price there.



Definitely. I've ordered a couple of 2.5mm balanced cables from them  and they've always been delivered really quickly  And like you say, good prices.


----------



## starfly

snellemin said:


> You can always add a usb C extension.



I ended up getting an extension, but had to get a micro USB extension in the end.  If you extend the USB C side of the Fiio CL06 cable, it won't work as the OTG thing doesn't work anymore.  You need to extend the Micro USB side that plugs into the DAC.  And that works fine now, and doesn't drain my phone's battery.


----------



## kmmm

Hi I just recently bought A Fiio Q5
When i Try charging it (5W 2A wort I have tried different ones) the charging light is blinking red as i it should,
but the battery is not charging. I charged it over night and the battery is stil flatt.
I could use it both in bluetooth mode and USB mode with the charging cable connected. but when I try to play music it shuts down.

This tells me that the battery is not charging at all, even if the charging light is blinking.
I bought the Q5 new in sealed box (eBay). It has not been able to charge at all.
Does have any recommendations for me what I can try?
I can see that is has firmware versjon 0.5.2 installed.


----------



## MidSmoothness

kmmm said:


> Hi I just recently bought A Fiio Q5
> When i Try charging it (5W 2A wort I have tried different ones) the charging light is blinking red as i it should,
> but the battery is not charging. I charged it over night and the battery is stil flatt.
> I could use it both in bluetooth mode and USB mode with the charging cable connected. but when I try to play music it shuts down.
> ...



Seems like you have a faulty battery. Probably a RMA case


----------



## FiiO

kmmm said:


> Hi I just recently bought A Fiio Q5
> When i Try charging it (5W 2A wort I have tried different ones) the charging light is blinking red as i it should,
> but the battery is not charging. I charged it over night and the battery is stil flatt.
> I could use it both in bluetooth mode and USB mode with the charging cable connected. but when I try to play music it shuts down.
> ...



Dear friend,
How did you check that the battery is still flat? The red led is still lighting even after charging overnight?

If you charge the Q5 in power on status, the led indicator will turn to pulsing status instead of constant light after fully charge.

Best regards


----------



## kmmm

The charging light is pulsing red, in both off and on status. (I have not seen solid red)
After a couple of hours it turns off. When I pull out the charging cable and put it back, it starts pulsating again.
With the charger cable connected, I can pair with bluetooth. (pulsing blue light) The battery indicator in Fiio Music shows low battery.
When I disconnect the charging cable it shuts down and I can not power it back up, unless I connect it to the charger cable.

 

I have also tried to change the charging USB port from side to bottom.
Even if it is displaying that it has changed in the app, it has not.
It will only power back on when I hook up the cable to the side port (not bottom port).
When I pair it with my phone in bluetooth it's displaying that it's back to charging on side port.

 


I have now tried to charge it for three days with no luck. (since I unwrapped it)
When I try to play some music it shuts down when i push "play" on my phone. Both in bluetooth and with the lightning cable (pulsing white light).
I'm quite frustrated and sad, as I have been reading a lot about this amp/dac and was really looking forward to enjoy it this summer.
I hope it's still a chance to do that, but I fear not....


----------



## FiiO

kmmm said:


> The charging light is pulsing red, in both off and on status. (I have not seen solid red)
> After a couple of hours it turns off. When I pull out the charging cable and put it back, it starts pulsating again.
> With the charger cable connected, I can pair with bluetooth. (pulsing blue light) The battery indicator in Fiio Music shows low battery.
> When I disconnect the charging cable it shuts down and I can not power it back up, unless I connect it to the charger cable.
> ...


Dear friend,

According to the phenomenon you mentioned, it may be a hardware issue with the battery of the Q5. 
Please contact your seller about that first.
If the seller fails to help, please contact us（support@fiio.com） again with the receipt attached. 
Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.

Bet regards


----------



## thebrieze

Can anyone tell me how good the Bluetooth sounds with an iPhone? I mostly stream from Spotify, or using HF player for local files. Can it substitute for the wired connection or is the compression audible?


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jul 6, 2019)

thebrieze said:


> Can anyone tell me how good the Bluetooth sounds with an iPhone? I mostly stream from Spotify, or using HF player for local files. Can it substitute for the wired connection or is the compression audible?


Removing my post as it is too sound science forum material and shouldn't be published in a forum like this.


----------



## Dobrescu George

thebrieze said:


> Can anyone tell me how good the Bluetooth sounds with an iPhone? I mostly stream from Spotify, or using HF player for local files. Can it substitute for the wired connection or is the compression audible?



The compression is always audbile with Bluetooth, but whether it will be audible for you, for your music, and such is another matter. 

I can hear the BT compression when it happens. I can sometimes ignore it. Sometimes it bothers me. 

With APT-X it is less noticeable than without. 

I've no idea what Spotify quality is, only tried Tidal so far. 

If you're portable, listening while on the go, I think you will be okay with Bluetooth for the sake of convenience.


----------



## Brooko (Jul 12, 2019)

thebrieze said:


> Can anyone tell me how good the Bluetooth sounds with an iPhone? I mostly stream from Spotify, or using HF player for local files. Can it substitute for the wired connection or is the compression audible?



Here's the thing.  An iPhone is sending an aac bluetooth codec to the Q5 which is decoding the codec (native aac).  Its being fed through the Q5's dac - so its essentially exactly the same as if you were playing the aac files from your iPhone wired into the Q5 dac.

The difference with the Q5 and a lot of other mobile devices - is that its using the AK4490EN to convert to analog - and not a low quality SoC.

As far as aac being lossy and being compressed - I am yet to see anyone in a properly volume matched double blind test tell the difference between aac256 and FLAC (even high res), when the same master is used for the transcode, and the transcode is done properly with no artefacting.

So in short - use your iPhone with Bluetooth.  You won't hear the difference (despite your brain thinking it can - when you read stuff like the above ^^).  Make sure the music you have is a decent recording.  And just enjoy it!

If you want to hear if YOU  can tell the difference between aac and FLAC - I recommend this test:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/set...-guide-to-ripping-tagging-transcoding.655879/


----------



## Sonic Defender

Absolutely agree, I would be astounded if anybody under the proper testing scenario that Brooko mentioned could reliably hear a difference. Sighted listening tests run by the subject are NEVER valid no matter what, that is how expectation bias works and if you're already testing, you have some bias to confirm.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Well, I did the test with metal music and could tell flac and aac apart with 100% accuracy. 

I should add a disclaimer, I'm 24 years old and I know the songs quite well, did that for fun, because I wanted to know whether it is worth to invest in space to save my libraries in FLAC or not. It was worth it then, it still is now. 

If using classical music, you may not be able to tell the differences, especially with simple classical music, all encoding algorithms were made for classical, it is in their design to work well with it.


----------



## thebrieze

For those that can hear a difference and use iOS devices (not AptX), have you tried an AB test (wired vs bluetooth) using the Q5? 

The Q5 supports AAC, and claims to bypass the Bluetooth SOC Dac to use its own main  Dac to supposedly sound better. It would be interesting to see if you can hear a difference between wired and Bluetooth on the Q5, and comparing against other Bluetooths dacs/receivers to see if these features really make a difference or is it just marketing speak?


----------



## Dobrescu George

thebrieze said:


> For those that can hear a difference and use iOS devices (not AptX), have you tried an AB test (wired vs bluetooth) using the Q5?
> 
> The Q5 supports AAC, and claims to bypass the Bluetooth SOC Dac to use its own main  Dac to supposedly sound better. It would be interesting to see if you can hear a difference between wired and Bluetooth on the Q5, and comparing against other Bluetooths dacs/receivers to see if these features really make a difference or is it just marketing speak?


++

Every Bluetooth DAC/AMP has its own sound, if that was your question. Every one of them sounds better wired as long as there's no DSP going on. 

I have both Q5 and xDSD, both of which have a bluetooth mode. 

If you are blocked to using only BT, don't bother, you're having already, don't sweat the details, you're probably using it portably anyways. 

I do not have iOS, only Android.


----------



## Brooko

Dobrescu George said:


> ++
> 
> Every Bluetooth DAC/AMP has its own sound, if that was your question. Every one of them sounds better wired as long as there's no DSP going on



@thebrieze 
This is an opinion - not fact.  I suggest treating it as such.  I also suggest the quote in my signature is an apt description of the situation.  Try both - see if you can tell the difference.  They are both (wired or wireless) going through the same dac and amp stage - which is why there is no audible difference.


----------



## Leetransform25

Anyone who's tried both the Q5 and the Mojo? Which one do you like better?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Leetransform25 said:


> Anyone who's tried both the Q5 and the Mojo? Which one do you like better?


They are both quite good (I owned and sold a Mojo) but the Q5 is far more versatile so if you are driving an easy to moderate load with it, the Q5 and stock amp module are in my experience pretty darn solid choices.


----------



## soundquality12

I have a Q5 
I wish I had not bought it. 
If you have money to burn and are curios, then go for it. 
I have a iPhone xs max and a 6plus. 
I like a hard wire connection but the Q5 connection is too fragile. 
Best wishes to all.


----------



## 329161

When is the thx amp module coming out?


----------



## Sonic Defender

dcfac73 said:


> When is the thx amp module coming out?


Already out, I have had one for a month now I think. Unless we are talking about something different.


----------



## 329161 (Jul 14, 2019)

Sonic Defender said:


> Already out, I have had one for a month now I think. Unless we are talking about something different.


I'm talking about the am3d module. It hasn't come to Australia yet. How's the sound? I'm guessing it's not a world beater as there hasn't been many comments to that effect. 
*Never mind. Just read back at the earlier posts. Looks like my guess is right?
Is it worth getting the am3d over the stock module. Guys like z reviews hyped the crap out of thx technology.


----------



## 329161

snellemin said:


> Nice.  But it gets even nicer with the AM3D amp module.


Have you heard the am3d? How does it compare to the other modules?


----------



## Sonic Defender

dcfac73 said:


> I'm talking about the am3d module. It hasn't come to Australia yet. How's the sound? I'm guessing it's not a world beater as there hasn't been many comments to that effect.
> *Never mind. Just read back at the earlier posts. Looks like my guess is right?
> Is it worth getting the am3d over the stock module. Guys like z reviews hyped the crap out of thx technology.


It is very nice, but saying it sounds better would be difficult as I thought the stock module sounding great. Still, I think it is a worthy purchase as regardless it really does sound excellent and having the 4.4mm input is in my mind very positive and forward compatible. I was able to get a very reasonably priced 4.4mm terminated cable by KK Cable for my Edition X V2 and I loved it with the AM3D.


----------



## MarkF786

I have the AM3D and tend to agree; it sounds great but it’s hard to say that it sounds better than the AM3A.  I got it for the 4.4mm output, though ultimately I may prefer the AM3E since it has all three output jacks, 3.5mm, 2.5mm, and 4.4mm. 



Sonic Defender said:


> It is very nice, but saying it sounds better would be difficult as I thought the stock module sounding great. Still, I think it is a worthy purchase as regardless it really does sound excellent and having the 4.4mm input is in my mind very positive and forward compatible. I was able to get a very reasonably priced 4.4mm terminated cable by KK Cable for my Edition X V2 and I loved it with the AM3D.


----------



## 329161

MarkF786 said:


> I have the AM3D and tend to agree; it sounds great but it’s hard to say that it sounds better than the AM3A.  I got it for the 4.4mm output, though ultimately I may prefer the AM3E since it has all three output jacks, 3.5mm, 2.5mm, and 4.4mm.


Dang, I had high hopes for the 3D. Is it just me, or does the q5 with the stock module have a slight grainy quality to the sound?


----------



## snellemin

dcfac73 said:


> Have you heard the am3d? How does it compare to the other modules?



I have it and it's the favorite out of the bunch of modules that I own.


----------



## Leetransform25

Sonic Defender said:


> They are both quite good (I owned and sold a Mojo) but the Q5 is far more versatile so if you are driving an easy to moderate load with it, the Q5 and stock amp module are in my experience pretty darn solid choices.


Do you also prefer the Q5 in sonic performance?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Leetransform25 said:


> Do you also prefer the Q5 in sonic performance?


I didn't have them at the same time, I did like the Mojo's sound signature for sure, but I feel that the Q5 for me anyway is equally nice. If you can order it from a place that allows returns and try it. I doubt that you will return it.


----------



## Leetransform25

Sonic Defender said:


> I didn't have them at the same time, I did like the Mojo's sound signature for sure, but I feel that the Q5 for me anyway is equally nice. If you can order it from a place that allows returns and try it. I doubt that you will return it.


From what I've seen and heard regarding the Q5 I think it'll make a good purchase as well, I've just been waiting for the release of the Q5s so I can get something even better haha


----------



## Sonic Defender

Leetransform25 said:


> From what I've seen and heard regarding the Q5 I think it'll make a good purchase as well, I've just been waiting for the release of the Q5s so I can get something even better haha


Yes, at this point waiting for the Q5s makes the most sense.


----------



## warriorpoet

Sonic Defender said:


> I didn't have them at the same time, I did like the Mojo's sound signature for sure, but I feel that the Q5 for me anyway is equally nice. If you can order it from a place that allows returns and try it. I doubt that you will return it.


Man, I LOVE the Mojo, but it can be a little noisy stuffed in a pocket with my cell. Does the Q5 deal with interference?


----------



## Sonic Defender

warriorpoet said:


> Man, I LOVE the Mojo, but it can be a little noisy stuffed in a pocket with my cell. Does the Q5 deal with interference?


When I have used it with a short OTG cable so that my phone was right ontop of the Q5 I experienced no noise at all. That is with an LG G7.


----------



## warriorpoet

Sonic Defender said:


> When I have used it with a short OTG cable so that my phone was right ontop of the Q5 I experienced no noise at all. That is with an LG G7.


Good, I use my G7 as a dedicated DAP; it gets KILLER battery life. Thank you.


----------



## pstickne (Jul 15, 2019)

How can I get the FiiO app to play through BT (for EQ) in iOS?

The app will “play” a song without actually playing it (icons animated, play time does not change, no audio). The hardware buttons will play from iTunes and “stop” the animations in the FiiO app.

Also, the app only imported 4 songs (of many hundreds of song downloaded showing in iTunes) .. very disappointing first-use. Hopefully it’s simple / possible to make better.


----------



## Sonic Defender

pstickne said:


> How can I get the FiiO app to play through BT (for EQ) in iOS?
> 
> The app will “play” a song without actually playing it (icons animated, play time does not change, no audio). The hardware buttons will play from iTunes and “stop” the animations in the FiiO app.
> 
> Also, the app only imported 4 songs (of many hundreds of song downloaded showing in iTunes) .. very disappointing first-use. Hopefully it’s simple / possible to make better.


Be disappointed with Apple and their need to control everything. Great for them, but not for everybody else.


----------



## pstickne (Jul 15, 2019)

Sonic Defender said:


> Be disappointed with Apple and their need to control everything. Great for them, but not for everybody else.


Actually, I’ll be disappointed with the BT issue not being openly discussed as a limitation, if it is one.

If I wanted a DAP, I would have bought a DAP (eg. single unit). Also, doesn’t explain why only 4 songs from iTunes are found.

So, is this possible or is it a BT limitation that not enough people make clearly apparent?

Transparency is important.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jul 15, 2019)

pstickne said:


> Actually, I’ll be disappointed with the BT issue not being openly discussed as a limitation, if it is one.
> 
> If I wanted a DAP, I would have bought a DAP (eg. single unit). Also, doesn’t explain why only 4 songs from iTunes are found.
> 
> ...


Clearly it isn't at all a widespread issue, or at least I don't think it is likely to be or we would hear about it. I have been using the Internet and online communities since 1998 and I can assure you, people have no issue at all complaining and making themselves heard. I am not denying that you are experiencing personally significant issues, I am suggesting only that they are not for certain widespread and I am speculating here, but I also think that it is hard for companies to make sure their Apple implementations are bullet proof when clearly the devices are Android based. I think that companies want to do everything they can to please Apple consumers. Despite being only a very small percentage of the cellphone marketplace (as compared with Android) Apple reaches customers with on average more disposable income so it behoves companies to try to please them. I am sure that FiiO will make every effort to address any issues that they can. They do follow these threads closely so it is certain that your situation will be investigated to one extent or another.

In the meantime, good luck and I hope that things do get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.


----------



## pstickne (Jul 15, 2019)

Sonic Defender said:


> Clearly it isn't at all a widespread issue, or at least I don't think it is likely to be or we would hear about it. I have been using the Internet and online communities since 1998 and I can assure you, people have no issue at all complaining and making themselves heard. I am not denying that you are experiencing personally significant issues, I am suggesting only that they are not for certain widespread and I am speculating here, but I also think that it is hard for companies to make sure their Apple implementations are bullet proof when clearly the devices are Android based. I think that companies want to do everything they can to please Apple consumers. Despite being only a very small percentage of the cellphone marketplace (as compared with Android) Apple reaches customers with on average more disposable income so it behoves companies to try to please them. I am sure that FiiO will make every effort to address any issues that they can. They do follow these threads closely so it is certain that your situation will be investigated to one extent or another.
> 
> In the meantime, good luck and I hope that things do get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.


So, can provide an answer the original question or a solution (without deflection)? If not, it seems like someone around here will have expertise. Thanks!


----------



## Sonic Defender

pstickne said:


> So, can provide an answer the original question or a solution (without deflection)? If not, it seems like someone around here will have expertise. Thanks!


I hope so. As somebody who doesn't use Apple products I am in no position to help. I don't think I was deflecting, I was trying to reframe the conversation a little. I am sure that you will get some input from people who can help. The fact that you haven't to this point is a big part of why I said it seems your issue isn't that widespread. Again, good luck with things.


----------



## thebrieze

pstickne said:


> How can I get the FiiO app to play through BT (for EQ) in iOS?
> 
> The app will “play” a song without actually playing it (icons animated, play time does not change, no audio). The hardware buttons will play from iTunes and “stop” the animations in the FiiO app.
> 
> Also, the app only imported 4 songs (of many hundreds of song downloaded showing in iTunes) .. very disappointing first-use. Hopefully it’s simple / possible to make better.



Seems like something might be corrupted on your phone. Some things to try.
Check reviews of the app in the App Store to see if others have the same issue. 
Reboot your phone
Delete the app and reinstall it. 
Contact Fiio support, if you have the same issue after a reinstall.


----------



## FiiO

pstickne said:


> How can I get the FiiO app to play through BT (for EQ) in iOS?
> 
> The app will “play” a song without actually playing it (icons animated, play time does not change, no audio). The hardware buttons will play from iTunes and “stop” the animations in the FiiO app.
> 
> Also, the app only imported 4 songs (of many hundreds of song downloaded showing in iTunes) .. very disappointing first-use. Hopefully it’s simple / possible to make better.


Dear friend,

You could try to reinstall the app and check agin. Besdes, here is a help from Apple support about copying the files to your ios app: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201301 

Best regards


----------



## Ziggomatic

Anyone know where I can procure a replacement optical and/or coaxial adapter cable for the Q5? Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

Ziggomatic said:


> Anyone know where I can procure a replacement optical and/or coaxial adapter cable for the Q5? Thanks!


Dear friend,

Do you mean this two come with the Q5?







Best regards


----------



## Ziggomatic

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Do you mean this two come with the Q5?
> 
> ...


Yes, sir - though I've found a third-party version of the optical adapter, so now I'm only looking for the coaxial/RCA adapter.


----------



## FiiO

Ziggomatic said:


> Yes, sir - though I've found a third-party version of the optical adapter, so now I'm only looking for the coaxial/RCA adapter.


Dear friend,

If you would need those accessories, you could send email to support@fiio.com about that.

Best regards


----------



## stephensynanta16

I've just got the Q5 today, it's prety warm when im using it as usb dac on laptop for an hour, im not plugging the charging port, just the data port in the bottom. Is it normal for the q5 to behave like that?


----------



## Sonic Defender

stephensynanta16 said:


> I've just got the Q5 today, it's prety warm when im using it as usb dac on laptop for an hour, im not plugging the charging port, just the data port in the bottom. Is it normal for the q5 to behave like that?


Yes, there will be heat. It is normal, all amplifiers produce heat, all electrical circuits for that matter produce heat.


----------



## pstickne (Aug 24, 2019)

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, there will be heat. It is normal, all amplifiers produce heat, all electrical circuits for that matter produce heat.


To be fair, the Q5 produces quite a bit more heat than such a process requires, even for low powered transducers. Hence the large battery and only so-so life.

Compare to the ES100 which, despite some negative things I say about it, is significantly more power efficient.. (and produces significantly less heat for same VRMS). Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power


----------



## pstickne (Aug 24, 2019)

stephensynanta16 said:


> I've just got the Q5 today, it's prety warm when im using it as usb dac on laptop for an hour, im not plugging the charging port, just the data port in the bottom. Is it normal for the q5 to behave like that?


This is a “known characteristic” of the Q5/Q5s implementations. It is not a very efficient DAC/AMP and the wasted energy (ie. that which is not transmitted out any audio port) is turned into heat. Energy is always conserved.

The device itself is fine running at these warmer temperatures and it is normal operating behavior - it’s mainly a comfort-in-pocket issue.

At least it’s not a tube AMP


----------



## Sonic Defender (Aug 24, 2019)

pstickne said:


> This is a “known characteristic” of the Q5/Q5s implementations. It is not a very efficient DAC/AMP and the wasted energy (ie. that which is not transmitted out any audio port) is turned into heat. Energy is always conserved.
> 
> The device itself is fine running at these warmer temperatures and it is normal operating behavior - it’s mainly a comfort-in-pocket issue.
> 
> At least it’s not a tube AMP


Fair points, but to add a wrinkle, my Q5 or Q5s don't run hot at all, and I play all lossless files and rather loud playback volume. I guess what we consider too hot (not debating the notion of efficiency as I can accept that the design may be less than ideal) differs. Additionally, if the circuits are stable and the end result sounds wonderful then I might suggest the heat production is what it needs to be. If FiiO had opted to design a unit that prioritized efficiency to minimize energy loss might it have had a negative effect on the sound quality? Not questions I can answer that is for sure. All I can say with any certainty is that my Q5s sounds wonderful and for my needs I don't find the heat output anything noteworthy.

Edit: Just picked up my Q5s and after about 30 minutes of loud music playback it is cool (well, slightly warm, definitely nowhere near hot) to the touch.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Updating above post. So after quite a bit of time at a very loud playback volume, various genres, all lossless files my Q5s is absolutely at most warm to the touch, not even remotely hot. Not sure what to say, but even with my Q5 I never experienced conditions getting anywhere near hot. Not suggesting others experiences, but I would caution readers considering a Q5/Q5s to not simply assume that everybody experiences excessive heat during use. Clearly some people do, but I absolutely do not and I would bet that I am not alone in this respect.


----------



## stephensynanta16 (Aug 25, 2019)

pstickne said:


> This is a “known characteristic” of the Q5/Q5s implementations. It is not a very efficient DAC/AMP and the wasted energy (ie. that which is not transmitted out any audio port) is turned into heat. Energy is always conserved.
> 
> The device itself is fine running at these warmer temperatures and it is normal operating behavior - it’s mainly a comfort-in-pocket issue.
> 
> At least it’s not a tube AMP


It's my first dac/amp combo with this much power, Im used to plug a small dap such as Hidizs ap80, and those thing only produce really small heat compared to q5, so it really surprised me when it gets warm.

Im asking those question because im worried that something wrong with my q5, when i unbox it, the unit doesn't turn on at all, i have to plug it in to get it turned on the 1st time. But if u guys experiencing the same, its fine then.


----------



## stephensynanta16

Sonic Defender said:


> Updating above post. So after quite a bit of time at a very loud playback volume, various genres, all lossless files my Q5s is absolutely at most warm to the touch, not even remotely hot. Not sure what to say, but even with my Q5 I never experienced conditions getting anywhere near hot. Not suggesting others experiences, but I would caution readers considering a Q5/Q5s to not simply assume that everybody experiences excessive heat during use. Clearly some people do, but I absolutely do not and I would bet that I am not alone in this respect.


Does Q5s is a really big upgrade from q5 in term of sound? or just a small improvement? 

I bought the Q5 because it's got 30% discount at my country , no news about the Q5s on local reseller, not even a preorder.


----------



## Sonic Defender

stephensynanta16 said:


> Does Q5s is a really big upgrade from q5 in term of sound? or just a small improvement?
> 
> I bought the Q5 because it's got 30% discount at my country , no news about the Q5s on local reseller, not even a preorder.


In some respects I like the Q5 more as it is slightly warmer sounding, which aligns with my current sound signature preferences. The Q5s seems to be a less warm and more detail retrieval focused, not night and day different, but to my ears there is a difference. So which model is the correct choice would depend on someone's preference. I also have the THX AAA AM3D module and have used it  on both models. I really think both are excellent, no better or worse, just a little different. Saying that, I think the Q5s is more forward compatible and the stock AM3E module that comes with it is slightly warmer than the AM3D.

I think FiiO has really created two fantastic models and whatever somebody goes the sound quality is excellent, and so is the value compared to price, IMO.


----------



## showme99

Q5S and AM3D now in stock at Audio46:

https://audio46.com/products/fiio-q5s-bluetooth-dac-and-amplifier

https://audio46.com/products/fiio-am3d-aaa-thx-amp-module-for-fiio-x7-x7-ii-q5-and-q5s


----------



## stephensynanta16

Have anyone tried Fiio ML06 Cable? Does it solved the smartphone battery draining problem?

I'm currently using regular OTG cable, and the q5 was draining my phone battery 1% for every minutes, my phone was oppo F7.


----------



## Steve Guppy

stephensynanta16 said:


> Have anyone tried Fiio ML06 Cable? Does it solved the smartphone battery draining problem?
> 
> I'm currently using regular OTG cable, and the q5 was draining my phone battery 1% for every minutes, my phone was oppo F7.


I'm using a Note 9, which has USB-C  and the FiiO CL06 and Shanling L2 work perfectly, no battery drain, so I imagine the ML06 would be no different


----------



## Ziggomatic

showme99 said:


> Q5S and AM3D now in stock at Audio46:
> 
> https://audio46.com/products/fiio-q5s-bluetooth-dac-and-amplifier
> 
> https://audio46.com/products/fiio-am3d-aaa-thx-amp-module-for-fiio-x7-x7-ii-q5-and-q5s



Getting my AM3D in the mail tomorrow - excited to try it out. Consistently amazed how good the Q5 sounds with the stock amp. Sometimes I think it sounds better than my R6 Pro, which I was convinced was about as good a sound you could get from a portable source under $1k. If the AM3D is a noticeable improvement I'll be a happy camper.


----------



## khyaris

Ziggomatic said:


> Getting my AM3D in the mail tomorrow - excited to try it out. Consistently amazed how good the Q5 sounds with the stock amp. Sometimes I think it sounds better than my R6 Pro, which I was convinced was about as good a sound you could get from a portable source under $1k. If the AM3D is a noticeable improvement I'll be a happy camper.


Wha really ? I’m actually debating with myself whether I’d buy a DAP with play store like R6 pro over phone + Q5 - mainly through Bluetooth for convenience of not having a brick though. 

Could you elaborate your comparison between Q5 & R6 Pro ?

Cheers


----------



## Ziggomatic (Aug 28, 2019)

khyaris said:


> Wha really ? I’m actually debating with myself whether I’d buy a DAP with play store like R6 pro over phone + Q5 - mainly through Bluetooth for convenience of not having a brick though.
> 
> Could you elaborate your comparison between Q5 & R6 Pro ?
> 
> Cheers



I'd say if you want a tight, clean & dynamic sound over everything else, I'd recommend the Q5 (though the R6 Pro is no slouch in those departments at all). On the other hand, if you want detail, separation & an excellent sound stage, the R6 Pro is the sound for you. IMO you can't really go wrong between the two, sound-wise.

I'll try to do some A/B tonight and update if I missed the mark from memory.

Edit: Compared the two side by side with the FLC8S (balanced) & Dunu Titan 6, and I should walk back my enthusiasm just a tad. The R6 Pro is definitely superior to my ears, but not by a ton. The R6 Pro has more detail, clarity, and there's a depth to the stereo image that gives vocals a great life-like tone, which is just out of reach for the Q5. But it's close, and for me the Q5 is just as fun to listen to.


----------



## khyaris

Ziggomatic said:


> I'd say if you want a tight, clean & dynamic sound over everything else, I'd recommend the Q5 (though the R6 Pro is no slouch in those departments at all). On the other hand, if you want detail, separation & an excellent sound stage, the R6 Pro is the sound for you. IMO you can't really go wrong between the two, sound-wise.
> 
> I'll try to do some A/B tonight and update if I missed the mark from memory.


Great thanks


----------



## Ziggomatic

AM3D finally in the house. Initial impression is that the B400 likes it very much.


----------



## toughnut

Ziggomatic said:


> I'd say if you want a tight, clean & dynamic sound over everything else, I'd recommend the Q5 (though the R6 Pro is no slouch in those departments at all). On the other hand, if you want detail, separation & an excellent sound stage, the R6 Pro is the sound for you. IMO you can't really go wrong between the two, sound-wise.
> 
> I'll try to do some A/B tonight and update if I missed the mark from memory.
> 
> Edit: Compared the two side by side with the FLC8S (balanced) & Dunu Titan 6, and I should walk back my enthusiasm just a tad. The R6 Pro is definitely superior to my ears, but not by a ton. The R6 Pro has more detail, clarity, and there's a depth to the stereo image that gives vocals a great life-like tone, which is just out of reach for the Q5. But it's close, and for me the Q5 is just as fun to listen to.



Curious what you think once you have ample time with Q5+AM3D vs R6 Pro. From my memory, FiiO combo sound more natural but musical compared to R6 Pro which highlight the bass and treble quite a bit.


----------



## Ziggomatic (Aug 28, 2019)

toughnut said:


> Curious what you think once you have ample time with Q5+AM3D vs R6 Pro. From my memory, FiiO combo sound more natural but musical compared to R6 Pro which highlight the bass and treble quite a bit.



I actually think I'm perceiving a bit more midbass with the Q5+AMD, and it certainly is musical. I think the R6 is more neutral by a small degree, and the soundstage is superior. What I'm getting from the AM3D is more of that marvelously clean signature of the stock configuration - it's squeezing a bit more magic out of the DAC section. Good stuff - really fun listening.

Edit: (not that I've had ample time - it's been 40 minutes )


----------



## HulalaHifi (Aug 29, 2019)

Use my Fiio Q5/AM5 to drive my new purchased Sennheiser HD800S headphones,  lots of power and details, can't be happier!


----------



## stephensynanta16 (Aug 31, 2019)

Guys, what android music player did u use? Is it possible to feed 32bit 384khz into the q5 via usb cables on android?

I've tried several app:
Hiby Music: it support up to 192khz, but somehow sounds different?
Poweramp: The android crashes when jumping between albums
Onkyo HF: is it limited to PCM 48khz? it always display PCM 48khz when i play anything beyond 48khz. Is it downsampling the output?
AIMP: weird UI, no information on output sampling rate
Fiio Music: it detect the usb dac, but no sounds at all


----------



## FiiO

stephensynanta16 said:


> Guys, what android music player did u use? Is it possible to feed 32bit 384khz into the q5 via usb cables on android?
> 
> I've tried several app:
> Hiby Music: it support up to 192khz, but somehow sounds different?
> ...


Dear friend,

Please check the usb output option in settings of your FiiO Music app. Have you turned it on?

Best regards


----------



## stephensynanta16

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Please check the usb output option in settings of your FiiO Music app. Have you turned it on?
> 
> Best regards


Dear Fiio,

Thanks,i've been cycling usb output option on and off, plug and unplug the q5 several times, and i've arrived at a conclusion. Hiby music is the 1st one to detect the Q5, took over the usb output and making some kind of exclusive connection to the q5. Uninstalled the Hiby Music & Onkyo HF, since then, Fiio Music worked flawlessly.

Thanks Fiio.


----------



## Steve Guppy (Sep 4, 2019)

stephensynanta16 said:


> Dear Fiio,
> 
> Thanks,i've been cycling usb output option on and off, plug and unplug the q5 several times, and i've arrived at a conclusion. Hiby music is the 1st one to detect the Q5, took over the usb output and making some kind of exclusive connection to the q5. Uninstalled the Hiby Music & Onkyo HF, since then, Fiio Music worked flawlessly.
> 
> Thanks Fiio.


I have similar problems with my Q5 connected via USB. I get pop ups asking if I'd like to open Neutron to handle Q5. If i hit yes, i can't hear any other audio through, be it YouTube, Internet, nothing. But if i hit cancel  the audio will come through all sources.


----------



## HulalaHifi

Finally I figure out how to make my Qobuz hi-res streaming playback to my Q5 DAC in DSD 256 format


----------



## Julius Decimus (Sep 12, 2019)

Good day people.

Does someone has experience with the AM5 module ?

I use the Q5 only as an amplifier and with AM5 Its only about 30% louder than the stock AM3A. That normal ?

Used as DAC and amp is little bit better, but still doesnt feel entirely right. I have the old Fiio E12a and JDS Labs C5, both are more powerful than this. For the C5 is normal, but the E12a is as well, and looking the specs of the AM5.....should not be so.

I have the Fiio X5 the first generation, i use the amps with it, or with regular computer. So thats the source.

Headphones used, from 32 to 300ohms, same result.

If the E12a is more powerful, looking the specs, the AM5 makes less than 400mW into 32ohms. I understand the device is intended to be used as DAC, not only as an amp, but after what i experienced, purely as an amp, its not very good at this.

Line out is very good tho...

I was just wondering if someone really uses this only as an amp sometimes, and what the observations are. Does it feels underpowered ?

Apart from this, no really problems with the device, Bluetooth, connectivity, all is fine, rock solid.


----------



## HulalaHifi (Sep 14, 2019)

Julius Decimus said:


> Good day people.
> 
> Does someone has experience with the AM5 module ?
> 
> ...



I have been used AM5 with Q5 in the last 6 months and I agreed it's only 30% louder than AM3a, but I don't think that's a problem, and we all know the volume is not the only indicator. With singled ended connection, I prefer AM5 over the AM3A, my Q5/AM5 drives my both Sennheiser HD650 and HD800S very well, outstanding result if you can use DSD256 or PCM 24bit/384 format via USB from Qobuz hi-res or Roon/Qobuz,  AM5 shows very good power and refinement when it push my Sennheiser HD800S. Yes, I think E12a is more powerful/much louder, but I have done AB compare, but I don't like E12a, has much more background noise and distortion and a bit muddy too, but still good in its price range. If you have a good source like Qobuz and headphones, stay with Q5/AM5, they are really outstanding, both the DAC and amp, I would consider it in $500~800 price range judged by the sound. AM3a is fun to listen too if you can use balanced ended, more details, but not has as much depth as AM5, I tried both on my HD650 and I prefer AM5. Hope this helps.


----------



## Julius Decimus

HulalaHifi said:


> Hope this helps.



Mister, i thank you very much for your answer.

So my unit is completely fine and functions as it should be. 

The E12a is with more forward mid tones i believe, and when you push it more it just sounds kind of harsh because this.

I have HD650 as well, and the Q5 with AM5 sounds completely fine with it. Its just for i have AKG K712, although in their specs its said 62 or 64 ohm (something like this was), they are somewhat harder to drive than the HD650 300ohms and from there i just was wondering if my Q5 is OK. 

I dont have any DSD recordings to try the Q5, but i will search for some soon.

I thank you very much one more time.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Julius Decimus said:


> Mister, i thank you very much for your answer.
> 
> So my unit is completely fine and functions as it should be.
> 
> ...


That seems odd, the HD 650 should be the more challenging to drive headphone. The AKG712 is pretty sensitive so not sure what might be happening. I wonder if the different sound signatures and how they present make the HD650 seem fuller and louder to you. I'll admit that I have never enjoyed the AKG house sound so I haven't owned any of their headphones.


----------



## HulalaHifi

Sonic Defender said:


> That seems odd, the HD 650 should be the more challenging to drive headphone. The AKG712 is pretty sensitive so not sure what might be happening. I wonder if the different sound signatures and how they present make the HD650 seem fuller and louder to you. I'll admit that I have never enjoyed the AKG house sound so I haven't owned any of their headphones.


I don't have AGK712, but I have AKGQ701, and I found they are harder to drive using Fiio/AM5 compare to Sennheiser HD650 .


----------



## Sonic Defender

HulalaHifi said:


> I don't have AGK712, but I have AKGQ701, and I found they are harder to drive using Fiio/AM5 compare to Sennheiser HD650 .


Again, trying to understand what about their design might make this possible. So with speakers, generally speaking, cabinet volume has a direct relationship with the maximum volume that can be achieved with the design. I am sure there are other factors, but the relationship is there. I wonder how this translate to headphones, which are ultimately just speakers so perhaps there is a difference. Does the HD650 have more enclosure volume and hence play louder? Not sure, but looking at the specifications, the Q701 or 712 are objectively not harder to drive so clearly there are other design factors at play.


----------



## Julius Decimus (Sep 15, 2019)

Sonic Defender said:


> Not sure, but looking at the specifications, the Q701 or 712 are objectively not harder to drive so clearly there are other design factors at play.



Well...long ago i saw some comments, it is said that they have big diaphragm, but the magnets are small inside the driver, and although more energy is taken, they dont produce as much sound. And seems that this counts not only for the K712, but the other AKGs as well. So...they are very amplifier dependid. Looking the specs, sensitivity is 105db/V, which is normal i would say. I mean, its not low.

Q5 with the AM5 is just enough for them, but barely. Because used as an amp, from most devices like phones, PC with regular motherboards, small mp3 players, you dont get good and strong signal out of them (you know, most is easy to connect to 3.5mm headphone output on them, and to the Q5), needs lot more amplification then. And this when it struggles.

For the amp modules....ahm...i im not really fan of the AM5. When i first got my Q5 with its stock AM3A, i was impressed in a way that i will try explain best as i can, so you guys can understand my view. And something important, this is all with bass boost switch on. I havent tried it ever without it. Yeah...so you connect it, you start it, and the sound just comes alive. What i mean by this is, its organic, smooth, linear kind of. And with the bass boost on, it goes more on the dark and warm side of sound, but it just sounds alive. I listen mostly rock, blues, metal music, and live conserts sounds amazing on this. Really something to pick your attention. But single ended output, its just not great in power. It gets the K712 loud, but not really good enough for me personaly. And this is when i was thinking, "well then with the AM5 will be just great". This is how i ordered it. When it came and i installed it, it was another sound signature. Meybe not that big difference for most people, however for me was super drastic. The organic and alive sound was gone, and it turned into somewhat common amplifier. It was more powerful alright, that was clear, but this unique sound signature was gone. And the power...... its not exactly super more compared with the stock module. So i wasnt very pleased at all. Its not as dark and warm sounding, subbass frequencies are there, but its less responsive probably in the 70-90hz where the stock module was better at. The details and the treble is there, nothing missing, but the sound just wasnt alive anymore. This kind of a life bloom was lost.

And then, i have the E12a from Fiio as well. I saw the AM5 module uses the same opamp as the E12a, Muses02. I guess this is why they sound kind of simular. Not the same, but the mids are more forward on the AM5.

As for the headphones, i am not really into the audio hobby stuff like i was 5-6 years ago. But from the past times i have 7-8 models widely used back then. From all the Focal Spirit Pro is the best sounding, but it has big problem - its not comfortable. 2 hours and after you feel like tank was on your head. So as i like the Focal sound most, i was searching for a headphone that is similar to it in terms of details. And the K712 was the one that i found back then, that sounds almost at the same level of detail. I also like listening music little bit louder than what avg. person would like, and so i usually turn down the higher frequencies 4-16khz with 4-6db, not to be harsh and unpleasant. The problem with this was, most of the headphones that i had, just lose the details when you lower them frequencies. And this is normal, but when you listen the music louder, the details and everything should still be there. And this is where i found the K712 to be just the right for me. You can still hear everything with them like with the Focal. As i understand, they dont have the typical AKG sound, they are darker.

So overall thats it why i didnt really liked the AM5. And i tested the E12a with the old Fiio X5 first generation that i have. With the E12a you hear everything that you hear with the Q5, but its not organic, alive sounding like the AM3A. And this is where more expensive devices are for in my opinion. They all have some unique for them sound signature, which makes them different. In terms of what you hear, depends mostly on the headphones.

I also tried to EQ the AM5 to sound like the AM3A, wasnt possible. Its just not alive sounding and thats it.

For the DAC portion, i tried to compare Q5 with X5 (PCM1792a i believe was called) there was nothing that was missing on any of them. What you hear with the X5 is what you hear on the Q5 Dac as well. The difference was, the Texas Instruments Dac chip used in older Fiio devices has more bite to the sound. Is like, you have the 5 filters on AKM and Q5 right, and TI on the X5 sounds like you have one more additional sharp filter on the AKM one to make the sound even sharper than what Sharp Roll-off gives. This is personal preference for everyone i guess, whether you like more smooth and not edgy sound. The details that you hear are same on both.


----------



## stephensynanta16 (Sep 15, 2019)

I'm plugging Fiio FH5 with LC-2.5C into the balanced jack of Q5, is it normal to have hiss in those configuration?

Its the default amp module


----------



## Steve Guppy

stephensynanta16 said:


> I'm plugging Fiio FH5 with LC-2.5C into the balanced jack of Q5, is it normal to have hiss in those configuration?
> 
> Its the default amp module


I have the FH5 with a Linsoul gold 2.5mm cable and have barely any hiss at all. Only noticeable on completely quiet passages at reasonable volume... So, not sure? Do you have the gain set to low?


----------



## stephensynanta16

Steve Guppy said:


> I have the FH5 with a Linsoul gold 2.5mm cable and have barely any hiss at all. Only noticeable on completely quiet passages at reasonable volume... So, not sure? Do you have the gain set to low?


yes, its on low, and yes it's only noticable on quiet passages, but it's quite noticeable i think, i set the volume at 9 o clock, it's audible even when the volume is on 6 o clock.

Is it normal for q5 to behave like that?


----------



## Brooko

Sonic Defender said:


> Again, trying to understand what about their design might make this possible. So with speakers, generally speaking, cabinet volume has a direct relationship with the maximum volume that can be achieved with the design. I am sure there are other factors, but the relationship is there. I wonder how this translate to headphones, which are ultimately just speakers so perhaps there is a difference. Does the HD650 have more enclosure volume and hence play louder? Not sure, but looking at the specifications, the Q701 or 712 are objectively not harder to drive so clearly there are other design factors at play.



Its the relationship between impedance and sensitivity.

AKGs are lower impedance but also lower sensitivity - so they need more current
Senns are higher impedance but higher sensitivity - so they need more voltage

In terms of overall power - the AKGs require more.

Here's the HD650:



 
Note the 7.08 Vrms (highish), but quite benign 23.6mA and comparatively small 167.09 mW

Now here's the Q701


 
Smaller voltage (5.62), but comparatively 4x the current (90.65mA) and a quite high 509.43 mW overall power

Q701 definitely harder to drive, and prefers (not surprisingly) a solid state or hybrid amp rather than straight OTL tube set-up.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Interesting that the difference is that great. I would be interested to know the design parameters that cause this vast a difference in current need. Magnet and diaphragm/dampening factors I suspect. Thanks for the chart.


----------



## Theri0n

Hi,

What amp module would you recommend for low impedance IEM and 24ohm headphones?


----------



## Steve Guppy

Theri0n said:


> Hi,
> 
> What amp module would you recommend for low impedance IEM and 24ohm headphones?


I use predominantly IEM'S, and the amp module that comes with it is fine


----------



## thirtyCruisers

Has anyone taken apart the amp module? My 3,5mm on the AM3A seems to be almost dead. I think I need to resolder the socket, but I don't see a way in. Thanks.


----------



## Theri0n

Steve Guppy said:


> I use predominantly IEM'S, and the amp module that comes with it is fine



I read AM3 without A at the end adds some hissing when low impedance IEM connected. So does jumbo A5.


----------



## FiiO

thirtyCruisers said:


> Has anyone taken apart the amp module? My 3,5mm on the AM3A seems to be almost dead. I think I need to resolder the socket, but I don't see a way in. Thanks.


Dear friend,

You may check if this instruction could help: http://fiio-instruction.oss-us-west... of How to Disassemble the X7 Amp Modules.pdf

Best regards


----------



## thirtyCruisers

FiiO said:


> You may check if this instruction could help: http://fiio-instruction.oss-us-west... of How to Disassemble the X7 Amp Modules.pdf


Wow, thanks! Couldn't have asked for a better response. 
I hope I can do it.


----------



## Steve Guppy

Theri0n said:


> I read AM3 without A at the end adds some hissing when low impedance IEM connected. So does jumbo A5.


But surely the Q5 comes with the AM3A anyway? Mine did, and that definitely has very, very little to no hiss depending on the source recording or volume setting.


----------



## Theri0n

Steve Guppy said:


> But surely the Q5 comes with the AM3A anyway?



I am getting modded body and AM2 separately. Hoping this combo will beat Topping NX4 DSD not only in details as it does by default, but in emotions either.



Steve Guppy said:


> very little to no hiss depending on the source recording or volume setting



Recording hiss is inevitable evil. I am talking about that slight one when plugging sensitive low impedance IEM. Fiio E11 does it for instance. Which is not big deal, however... 80% of total I use low impedance sensitive BA IEM.


----------



## Theri0n

This device does not forgive negligent mastering. Cannot listen to old-school metal with exception to those used to be careful to mastering.


----------



## iMongui

Guys, when I use the DAC under Mac OS X (Catalina, Sierra, Mojave), when I select under Midi settings the format of the audio, if I left 32 bits, 384 khz, applications like Microsoft Teams or Skype for Business crashes as hell. I need to go down for 192 khz, otherwise, again, some app crashes. I tried on different Mac OS X versions and different Mac machines just to be sure that its not something wrong with the USB port or just one machine issue. @FiiO Any thoughts?


----------



## FiiO

iMongui said:


> Guys, when I use the DAC under Mac OS X (Catalina, Sierra, Mojave), when I select under Midi settings the format of the audio, if I left 32 bits, 384 khz, applications like Microsoft Teams or Skype for Business crashes as hell. I need to go down for 192 khz, otherwise, again, some app crashes. I tried on different Mac OS X versions and different Mac machines just to be sure that its not something wrong with the USB port or just one machine issue. @FiiO Any thoughts?


Dear friend,

Does the same issue happen in other music software like Audirvana?

Best regards


----------



## iMongui

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Does the same issue happen in other music software like Audirvana?
> 
> Best regards


Audirvana works correctly, I know that its something regarding those applications but its very stressful as I use the dac mainly at work and don't be able to use it properly makes me think to sell it


----------



## FiiO

iMongui said:


> Audirvana works correctly, I know that its something regarding those applications but its very stressful as I use the dac mainly at work and don't be able to use it properly makes me think to sell it


Dear friend,

Do you have another DAC and check? If some of the softwares work correct and some not, could it be the limitation of some software instead?

Best regards


----------



## ObjectVoice

I impulse-bought a pair of SONY WF1000XM3 bluetooth earphones recently without doing a lot of (read: any) research on codec compatability. They connect to my phone via AAC with no problem and sound, yep, pretty good. To my surprise however my Fiio M9 just throws up its hands at trying to connect with them. My Fiio M11 makes a good fist of it - but all it can finally muster is a link via the the, ahem, not-stellar SBC codec. The Q5 though - I kinda hoped - might be able to haul itself up to connect to them via the AAC codec - but no, not a sausage, not a squeak. It may be, it may well be, of course, that the Q5 was never designed to connect via AAC to something like the Wf1000xm3. So is this a hiding to nothing - or are there arcane pairing rituals I can be initiated into?


----------



## iMongui

ObjectVoice said:


> I impulse-bought a pair of SONY WF1000XM3 bluetooth earphones recently without doing a lot of (read: any) research on codec compatability. They connect to my phone via AAC with no problem and sound, yep, pretty good. To my surprise however my Fiio M9 just throws up its hands at trying to connect with them. My Fiio M11 makes a good fist of it - but all it can finally muster is a link via the the, ahem, not-stellar SBC codec. The Q5 though - I kinda hoped - might be able to haul itself up to connect to them via the AAC codec - but no, not a sausage, not a squeak. It may be, it may well be, of course, that the Q5 was never designed to connect via AAC to something like the Wf1000xm3. So is this a hiding to nothing - or are there arcane pairing rituals I can be initiated into?


And how do you do it? I mean, how are you trying to connect the Q5 with the Sony? Cable? Because you don’t have an interface to pair de Q5 to the Sony as far as I know, just through cable


----------



## Steve Guppy (Nov 2, 2019)

iMongui said:


> And how do you do it? I mean, how are you trying to connect the Q5 with the Sony? Cable? Because you don’t have an interface to pair de Q5 to the Sony as far as I know, just through cable


Exactly, the Q5 is designed to connect to the unit (smartphone, dap, etc) via BT, not the headphones ..


----------



## iMongui

Steve Guppy said:


> Exactly, the Q5 is designed to connect to the unit (smartphone, dap, etc) via BT, not the headphones ..


I will say that this function would be marvelous tbh xD because you can have your DAC in your pocket, pair with the headphones/earphones and a phone or any other source and just play the music without cables but well, it’s just an idea


----------



## ObjectVoice (Nov 2, 2019)

I think I've got my understanding of how the Q5 might work bass-ackwards. I was using the the fiio USB cable to connect the q5 to a source and trying to will it to connect to the Sonys via Bluetooth. Methinks that it simply does not do that sort of bridge thingy. Impressionistic pairings seem not to be a thing. Big surprise! SAD!


----------



## ObjectVoice

I suppose I might as usefully expect the Q5 to pair with my actual fleshy ears...


----------



## iMongui

ObjectVoice said:


> I think I've got my understanding of how the Q5 might work bass-ackwards. I was using the the fiio USB cable to connect the q5 to a source and trying to will it to connect to the Sonys via Bluetooth. Methinks that it simply does not do that sort of bridge thingy. Impressionistic pairings seem not to be a thing. Big surprise! SAD!


Well, it sounds perfect me too, but again, we don’t have an app or a place to select the pairing between the Q5 and your Sony for example.. without this interface and of course, the connectivity (I’m not sure if the Q5 has the ability even if the app/interface doesn’t exists), we can’t do nothing but wait for an expert or @FiiO to know more deeply


----------



## FiiO

ObjectVoice said:


> I think I've got my understanding of how the Q5 might work bass-ackwards. I was using the the fiio USB cable to connect the q5 to a source and trying to will it to connect to the Sonys via Bluetooth. Methinks that it simply does not do that sort of bridge thingy. Impressionistic pairings seem not to be a thing. Big surprise! SAD!


Dear friend,

The Q5 does not have Bluetooth output. It could would as Bluetooth receiver but not a transmitter. So you may not be able to connect the Q5 to your SONY WF1000XM3 bluetooth earphones via Bluetooth.

Best regards


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

@FiiO I am going to purchase a q5 as I need portable but when I am at home can I use it hooked up through the libe out to my tube amp as a dedicated DAD only ?


----------



## FiiO

NiTROAUDiO said:


> @FiiO I am going to purchase a q5 as I need portable but when I am at home can I use it hooked up through the libe out to my tube amp as a dedicated DAD only ?


Dear friend,

Which input would you like to use? 

Best regards


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

I wanna use my external amp with the q5 as just a DAC


----------



## FiiO

NiTROAUDiO said:


> I wanna use my external amp with the q5 as just a DAC


Dear friend,

You could connect the lineout of the Q5 to the aux in port of your amplifer for help via the audio cable.

Best regards


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

Hey so could I change the op amps in this unit? Anyone? I'd like to know before i drop cash on one. Also what do connector adapters do ? Like if I buy an adapter that's for 2.5mm does it take my singled ended cable and convert it into balanced ?


----------



## ObjectVoice (Nov 13, 2019)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> The Q5 does not have Bluetooth output. It could would as Bluetooth receiver but not a transmitter. QUOTE]



Thanks very much - sometimes you try to figure something out without actually thinking about it and this was one of these times for me!


----------



## Theri0n

NiTROAUDiO said:


> Hey so could I change the op amps in this unit?



It is rather theoretically possible, however, you have to be really sophisticated in circuits and mere soldering.



NiTROAUDiO said:


> Also what do connector adapters do ? Like if I buy an adapter that's for 2.5mm does it take my singled ended cable and convert it into balanced ?



I would rather stay away from TRRS to TRS and reverse adapters. There is a risk to short-circuit output device.


----------



## Ninja Theory (Nov 21, 2019)

Hi I'm having a small issue with my phone not seeing my Q5 in BT mode (it's the standard Q5, not the Q5S). I use it for travel and it's been a godsend, but suddenly it is giving this issue. I guess it may be my phone's BT but I don't have issue with my phone (iPhone 7) seeing other devices.

The Q5 was paired with my phone but there was no audio (even though it was paired) so I unpaired it. Now my phone does not see it so I can't pair it at all. I did hold down the BT pair button until the light flashed red and blue (many times).

II have tried resetting the Q5 but it didn't make a difference. Everything was fine using my Q5 on my last 20-30 trips. I don't use my Q5 in BT mode much but sometimes it's handy for the convenience of wireless tethering.


----------



## FiiO (Nov 24, 2019)

Ninja Theory said:


> Hi I'm having a small issue with my phone not seeing my Q5 in BT mode (it's the standard Q5, not the Q5S). I use it for travel and it's been a godsend, but suddenly it is giving this issue. I guess it may be my phone's BT but I don't have issue with my phone (iPhone 7) seeing other devices.
> 
> The Q5 was paired with my phone but there was no audio (even though it was paired) so I unpaired it. Now my phone does not see it so I can't pair it at all. I did hold down the BT pair button until the light flashed red and blue (many times).
> 
> II have tried resetting the Q5 but it didn't make a difference. Everything was fine using my Q5 on my last 20-30 trips. I don't use my Q5 in BT mode much but sometimes it's handy for the convenience of wireless tethering.


Dear friend,

Would you mind showing a small video to support@fiio.com about that? Can other mobile phone see the Q5 in the Bluetooth device list when the blue and red indicator of Q5 flash alternately?

Best regards


----------



## sherthang

are the other devices seen by your phone using Bluetooth also audio devices?  I would reset the network settings (settings->General->reset->reset network settings). This effectively deletes/resets both WiFi and Bluetooth. (You will have to re-pair to Bluetooth devices and reconnect to WiFi connections with a password)


Ninja Theory said:


> Hi I'm having a small issue with my phone not seeing my Q5 in BT mode (it's the standard Q5, not the Q5S). I use it for travel and it's been a godsend, but suddenly it is giving this issue. I guess it may be my phone's BT but I don't have issue with my phone (iPhone 7) seeing other devices.
> 
> The Q5 was paired with my phone but there was no audio (even though it was paired) so I unpaired it. Now my phone does not see it so I can't pair it at all. I did hold down the BT pair button until the light flashed red and blue (many times).
> 
> II have tried resetting the Q5 but it didn't make a difference. Everything was fine using my Q5 on my last 20-30 trips. I don't use my Q5 in BT mode much but sometimes it's handy for the convenience of wireless tethering.


----------



## Ninja Theory (Dec 8, 2019)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Would you mind showing a small video to support@fiio.com about that? Can other mobile phone see the Q5 in the Bluetooth device list when the blue and red indicator of Q5 flash alternately?
> 
> Best regards


Thanks, and thanks @sherthang it connected fine to my phone the next day. I assume it was a phone issue not a Q5 issue as my other devices were able to see and connect to the Q5 without an issue.


----------



## tyota

So far I love my Q5. The versatility and portability of it is incredible. The sound is amazing as everyone is already aware.


----------



## 397324

Is the original Q5 worth getting now that the S version has been released?


----------



## Julius Decimus

Darren Cotter said:


> Is the original Q5 worth getting now that the S version has been released?



I would say Its worth it, if you can find it for around 250-300$. New that is.


----------



## Julius Decimus

Darren Cotter said:


> Is the original Q5 worth getting now that the S version has been released?



But to be honest mister, later i saw your signature, this> "DAP: FiiO M11, X7ii & X7(AM5)" - in that case i dont think you need any Q5 or Q5s.


----------



## 397324

Can any of the above mentioned DAPs work as a DAC for a mobile phone?


----------



## Julius Decimus

Darren Cotter said:


> Can any of the above mentioned DAPs work as a DAC for a mobile phone?



Well, for a PC should not be a problem.
For connection to smartphone, even if it works, there is possibility that these DAPs will drain the phone s battery when used in DAC mode. Wait for another opinions better.


----------



## Hinomotocho

I recently got myself a Q5s and was wondering if anyone had created a simple desktop holder for it (or your Q5)? Ideally I want it flat as opposed to upright so I was thinking of a couple of U shaped things to keep it a couple of inches off the desk to also help keep it cool. I asked on the Q5s thread but so far only ended up with a suggestion of Blutack


----------



## Ninja Theory

Hinomotocho said:


> I recently got myself a Q5s and was wondering if anyone had created a simple desktop holder for it (or your Q5)? Ideally I want it flat as opposed to upright so I was thinking of a couple of U shaped things to keep it a couple of inches off the desk to also help keep it cool. I asked on the Q5s thread but so far only ended up with a suggestion of Blutack


I leave my Q5 lying flat on the table. It's in a FiiO leather case. I only use mine when I travel though, so a desktop holder is not really something I've given thought to (yet).


----------



## Hinomotocho

That case is nice, and I usually grab all the accessories I can but as I'm not going to carry it around and as it gets quite warm I figured I can do without it. I've looked at some nice mobile phone stands but they generally are 45 degree angled, I really want it flat but raised a couple of inches off the desk. I'll go to Daiso (Japanese cheap goods) and try to find something that fits my needs.


----------



## StalkerRus

Hi! I am trying to figure out if Q5 will be able to drive Fostex t50rp / t60rp using balanced/unbalanced output. So far I am getting mixed signals from reddit and youtube reviews. Is anyone using Q5 with Fostex?


----------



## iMongui

StalkerRus said:


> Hi! I am trying to figure out if Q5 will be able to drive Fostex t50rp / t60rp using balanced/unbalanced output. So far I am getting mixed signals from reddit and youtube reviews. Is anyone using Q5 with Fostex?


Im using it with Fostex TH610 and it works flawlessly


----------



## Steve Guppy

StalkerRus said:


> Hi! I am trying to figure out if Q5 will be able to drive Fostex t50rp / t60rp using balanced/unbalanced output. So far I am getting mixed signals from reddit and youtube reviews. Is anyone using Q5 with Fostex?


Don't own either of those headphones  but do own a Q5, and looking at the specs, it should drive them easily.


----------



## StalkerRus

iMongui said:


> Im using it with Fostex TH610 and it works flawlessly



I guess th610 are dynamic headphones, and t60rp are planars and everyone here and there tells that those are "hard to drive".


----------



## ShoobDaLoob (Jan 8, 2020)

So I've had my Fiio Q5s since august and it just conked out today. I've tried holding the reset button down to 5 seconds like it advises one to do in the manual but that bred no fruit. I really enjoyed the product and drove my LCD-2s and LCD-Xs well but that's not really a testament to anything. I just enjoyed the use of LDAC over Bluetooth for use alongside my isine 20s. I think the TI MSP430 chip died in my unit or the firmware got ****ed because the battery is still providing nominal voltage alongside with power to every non-semiconductor controlled element on the board. This includes Butterworth LPF for power conditioning before the LDOs as well as other power points. There are test pads on the back but I don't have an oscilloscope handy atm so I couldn't do a comprehensive analysis. Regardless, it's still under warranty so should be good for warranty repair by fiio but shipping to china and back is a bitch. I gotta use my crappy dongle with my phone and it makes everything sound like ****ing garbage. Might as well wear some beats and blow my ears out with some bass boost.

Looking through the internal PCB layout I found the list of chips they used to control basically all elements of the sound delivery system other than the internal Amp architecture of the amp modules as I couldn't take that apart without some damage. If you guys would like some more images and breakdown of the layout I can provide some insight. For the price this device is a great deal but doesnt match higher end offerings which can be seen by the outsourcing of big segments of the player design being outsourced for off the shelf SoCs. A good example is the use of the NJW1151 for use of the volume control. I don't know the exacts of the volume control implementation but I am almost sure that it is a bit depth truncating system which is circumventing hte whole point of using an external device for volume control for the most part in a way. I would have expected some sort of analog based volume control but at this price point it's not possible so I understand the concession. Beats a pot any day and allows for some LPF filter adjustment on the output end of the DAC before the amp module final amplification.
@FiiO, I messaged your customer service department about support and possible replacement but I haven't heard from them. I have looked through your forums on your site and it was barren regarding issues with your product. This product is definitely buggy when it comes to the bluetooth connectivity on android but for the most part has performed admirably but the power off and power on ****ery is really bad and has almost bricked my deviced 3 times with this 4th time actually bricking it. You guys should have just allowed the device to be actually powered off when the volume wheel hits 0 instead of a soft power off. Especially when I have to cycle the device to make it work properly sometimes cuz it stops working.

Internal Pic:


----------



## Ab10 (Jan 8, 2020)

This above post must move to the appropriate thread which Q5s - This Q5 Thread.



ShoobDaLoob said:


> So I've had my Fiio Q5s since august and it just conked out today. I've tried holding the reset button down to 5 seconds like it advises one to do in the manual but that bred no fruit. I really enjoyed the product and drove my LCD-2s and LCD-Xs well but that's not really a testament to anything. I just enjoyed the use of LDAC over Bluetooth for use alongside my isine 20s. I think the TI MSP430 chip died in my unit or the firmware got ****ed because the battery is still providing nominal voltage alongside with power to every non-semiconductor controlled element on the board. This includes Butterworth LPF for power conditioning before the LDOs as well as other power points. There are test pads on the back but I don't have an oscilloscope handy atm so I couldn't do a comprehensive analysis. Regardless, it's still under warranty so should be good for warranty repair by fiio but shipping to china and back is a bitch. I gotta use my crappy dongle with my phone and it makes everything sound like ****ing garbage. Might as well wear some beats and blow my ears out with some bass boost.
> 
> Looking through the internal PCB layout I found the list of chips they used to control basically all elements of the sound delivery system other than the internal Amp architecture of the amp modules as I couldn't take that apart without some damage. If you guys would like some more images and breakdown of the layout I can provide some insight. For the price this device is a great deal but doesnt match higher end offerings which can be seen by the outsourcing of big segments of the player design being outsourced for off the shelf SoCs. A good example is the use of the NJW1151 for use of the volume control. I don't know the exacts of the volume control implementation but I am almost sure that it is a bit depth truncating system which is circumventing hte whole point of using an external device for volume control for the most part in a way. I would have expected some sort of analog based volume control but at this price point it's not possible so I understand the concession. Beats a pot any day and allows for some LPF filter adjustment on the output end of the DAC before the amp module final amplification.
> @FiiO, I messaged your customer service department about support and possible replacement but I haven't heard from them. I have looked through your forums on your site and it was barren regarding issues with your product. This product is definitely buggy when it comes to the bluetooth connectivity on android but for the most part has performed admirably but the power off and power on ****ery is really bad and has almost bricked my deviced 3 times with this 4th time actually bricking it. You guys should have just allowed the device to be actually powered off when the volume wheel hits 0 instead of a soft power off. Especially when I have to cycle the device to make it work properly sometimes cuz it stops working.
> ...


----------



## ShoobDaLoob

crap you're absolutely correct mate. I will move this over. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## sidecross

Darren Cotter said:


> Is the original Q5 worth getting now that the S version has been released?


I have the original q5 and read much about the q5s and decided to stay with the q5.

Fiio's updating to other amp modules is a failure; I have been trying up date an amp module for 4.4mm balanced cable since December 2018 with no success.

Both the am3b and am3d have been back ordered.

The current price for the q5 might make it a good choice, but an updated amp module for it is an empty promise.


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the reply. Fiio has told me even they don't have any AM3D amps in stock. I don't know why they do these limited releases, sometimes not even for the European market.


----------



## Steve Guppy

sidecross said:


> I have the original q5 and read much about the q5s and decided to stay with the q5.
> 
> Fiio's updating to other amp modules is a failure; I have been trying up date an amp module for 4.4mm balanced cable since December 2018 with no success.
> 
> ...





Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the reply. Fiio has told me even they don't have any AM3D amps in stock. I don't know why they do these limited releases, sometimes not even for the European market.



So, reading between the lines, am i under the understanding that FiiO no longer manufactures the amp modules for the X7ii/Q5/ and Q5s, even though they have only just released the latter?
That's bonkers if true..


----------



## sidecross

Steve Guppy said:


> So, reading between the lines, am i under the understanding that FiiO no longer manufactures the amp modules for the X7ii/Q5/ and Q5s, even though they have only just released the latter?
> That's bonkers if true..


Yes, it is a failure on fiio's part to market a product with a purpose to update an amp module that is not available.

The marketing of interchange amp modules was one of my deciding reason for the q5. As far as I am concerned the promise of having amp modules to keep the q5 still useful, is more than disappointing.

It would seem fiio is deliberately keeping the amp modules out of production to force people buying the q5s. This makes me more angry than sad.


----------



## Steve Guppy

sidecross said:


> Yes, it is a failure on fiio's part to market a product with a purpose to update an amp module that is not available.
> 
> The marketing of interchange amp modules was one of my deciding reason for the q5. As far as I am concerned the promise of having amp modules to keep the q5 still useful, is more than disappointing.
> 
> It would seem fiio is deliberately keeping the amp modules out of production to force people buying the q5s. This makes me more angry than sad.



Hang on, that makes no sense. Why would that force people to buy the Q5s? If the amp modules aren't available, they aren't available, regardless of which FiiO product you have! It certainly won't cause anyone to even consider an upgrade from the Q5 (myself included)  It'll force people to buy the Xduoo XD-05 Plus is what it'll do!! Does @FiiO have anything to add or say?..


----------



## sidecross

Steve Guppy said:


> Hang on, that makes no sense. Why would that force people to buy the Q5s? If the amp modules aren't available, they aren't available, regardless of which FiiO product you have! It certainly won't cause anyone to even consider an upgrade from the Q5 (myself included)  It'll force people to buy the Xduoo XD-05 Plus is what it'll do!! Does @FiiO have anything to add or say?..


My comment is only my personal view point.

The q5 at its current price is still a good value; I am still using my q5 and I am happy with it.

I have prejudice against what and how fiio is marketing the q5 and q5s and it will have me reenter the market place for an alternative product when I may need it.

I am not advocating this position to anyone, but merely expressing my point of view on how I feel as a consumer.


----------



## 397324

Steve Guppy said:


> Hang on, that makes no sense. Why would that force people to buy the Q5s? If the amp modules aren't available, they aren't available, regardless of which FiiO product you have! It certainly won't cause anyone to even consider an upgrade from the Q5 (myself included)  It'll force people to buy the Xduoo XD-05 Plus is what it'll do!! Does @FiiO have anything to add or say?..



I think the newer amp modules are already screwed on to the arse end of their Q5s, therefore there are none available as an upgrade for owners of the Q5, X7 and X7ii. If it wasn't for the piss poor battery life, I'd switch to an iBasso DX220.


----------



## Steve Guppy

Darren Cotter said:


> I think the newer amp modules are already screwed on to the arse end of their Q5s, therefore there are none available as an upgrade for owners of the Q5, X7 and X7ii. If it wasn't for the piss poor battery life, I'd switch to an iBasso DX220.



But it's not just that Darren. I don't think FiiO are making ANY amp modules. Trying to source a decent priced AM5 module for a possible DT 1770 purchase, but these things are rare as rocking horse crap! You'd think that if FiiO went to all the trouble of making an upgraded Q5, then they'd at least offer all the amp modules in increased quantity to ensure it was a sales success? No? I love the brand, and still love my Q5 and even FH5, But it does leave a sour taste..


----------



## 397324

I had an AM5 on here for £50. It sold this afternoon on eBay for £55.


----------



## Steve Guppy

Darren Cotter said:


> I had an AM5 on here for £50. It sold this afternoon on eBay for £55.



You can go off people really quickly . 
Joking aside  i looked on Flea Bay a couple of days ago, and only one used listing appeared! Frustrating .


----------



## 397324

Mine was used but mint and boxed. It came with an X7 mk1 I got off eBay, together with an AM2. I only tried it on my Xii to check it was working OK, as I'm happy with the AM3A on my FH7's.


----------



## Steve Guppy

Darren Cotter said:


> Mine was used but mint and boxed. It came with an X7 mk1 I got off eBay, together with an AM2. I only tried it on my Xii to check it was working OK, as I'm happy with the AM3A on my FH7's.


Are you in the UK? Coz if you are, that's weird. As the only one that came up still has a day left on the auction. Yeah, i really like the AM3A, sounds good on the balanced 2.5mm output. The reason I'm contemplating the AM5 is that i really want some DT 1770 Pro's, and at 250 ohm, I'm preparing a solution to the possibility the AM3A won't power them. And the module will still work out cheaper (hopefully) than buying another amp.


----------



## 397324

I'm in Jersey, Channel Islands, so it was listed on eBay.co.uk  as a BIN auction.


----------



## sidecross

Darren Cotter said:


> Mine was used but mint and boxed. It came with an X7 mk1 I got off eBay, together with an AM2. I only tried it on my Xii to check it was working OK, as I'm happy with the AM3A on my FH7's.


I am using a similar combination of am3a and fa7 along with sony mdr 1am2 on my q5 and do like it.

My desire was a simple amp upgrade to a 4.4mm balanced output; it seems my ambition is ludicrous.


----------



## sidecross

Darren Cotter said:


> I think the newer amp modules are already screwed on to the arse end of their Q5s, therefore there are none available as an upgrade for owners of the Q5, X7 and X7ii. If it wasn't for the piss poor battery life, I'd switch to an iBasso DX220.


I use my q5 either on a desk or arm of a chair and use it with an anker 26800 mah powerbank to keep the q5 battery temperature quite low when in use.


----------



## ObjectVoice (Jan 22, 2020)

More by luck than design, I seem to have scored an AM3D - which I immediately stuck on my Q5 and connected via usb to my phone. Clicking through my 'recently played' files in the Fiio music app I noticed that there would be a stutter between tracks - when I clicked to play the next track the track I was listening to would go silent then continue to play for a split second then go silent for a split second then the next track would start. This is the case when using both the Fiio app on my rooted Mi Max 3 when connected via USB to the q5 as well as when using the Fiio app on the M11 through usb to the Q5. It's not the case when changing tracks on, say, the Neutron app on my phone and on the M11 when connected by USB to the Q5. I'm using the Fiio CL06 in all cases but changing the USB cable doesn't alter the issue. The Fiio player on the M11 and on my phone without the Q5 doesn't display the same behaviour, nor does the same action occur when using Bluetooth out of my phone to the Q5. Its also not specific to the AM3D (I was relived to find) because the same thing happens with the AM3A. Swapping between gapless and non-gapless doesn't affect it.

Any ideas anyone? I very much prefer the Fiio app over any other existing music app (in particular I find the Neutron app to be a constant headache) so I'd be very pleased to hear that there was a fix for this irritating little bug. Or is it a problem with my specific (and other than this, much loved) Q5? (The AM3D is superb by the way!)


----------



## TC44

I primarily use my Q5 with AM3a to drive my Monolith M570 and Senn HD700 using the SE connection.  On high gain both get plenty loud at about the 12:00 position.  I'm considering getting a balanced cable if the balanced output actually provides better SQ over the SE.  I read that certain balanced configurations can actually degrade sq.
Seeking input from Q5/am3a owners on their experience with the balanced output.  Thanks


----------



## TC44

TC44 said:


> I primarily use my Q5 with AM3a to drive my Monolith M570 and Senn HD700 using the SE connection.  On high gain both get plenty loud at about the 12:00 position.  I'm considering getting a balanced cable if the balanced output actually provides better SQ over the SE.  I read that certain balanced configurations can actually degrade sq.
> Seeking input from Q5/am3a owners on their experience with the balanced output.  Thanks


Before posting I completed a search for "balance output" and returned only one post.  I since searched for "balance" and returned many posts so please ignore my request for input.  Seems this has been thoroughly discussed and results vary from worse SQ to no change to much improved SQ...the ol' "results may vary" disclaimer.


----------



## Theri0n

TC44 said:


> I'm considering getting a balanced cable if the balanced output actually provides better SQ over the SE.



It heavily depends on what ear or headphone is used. Balanced output usually provides as twice as more power (but not necessarily as Fiio X5-III delivers even less power through 2.5 balanced than through SE). However the most important is the balanced output helps to deliver more stable in terms of A and V current to drive.



TC44 said:


> Monolith M570 and Senn HD700



I am afraid these cans would require slightly more power than AM3A is able to deliver through 2.5 balanced out to drive.

So I would suggest to go for AM5 instead of recabling to 2.5mm or consider AM3B or AM3D along with recabling to 4.4mm Pentacon.


----------



## Steve Guppy (Jan 24, 2020)

Just watched BGGAR's review on the new flagship FiiO dap (M15). And one of his gripes was that at the time of the unbox, it didn't show an LED to discern the difference between file formats. (i.e: Mp3, Flac, Dsd, etc). Now i know the Q5 has a light-up DSD led, but does it display in anyway the other different formats? Am i missing something? Or do you just use your player of choice to inform you?..


----------



## Bjornhall (Jan 25, 2020)

Steve Guppy said:


> So, reading between the lines, am i under the understanding that FiiO no longer manufactures the amp modules for the X7ii/Q5/ and Q5s, even though they have only just released the latter?
> That's bonkers if true..


I live in Sweden and the Am5 is available here, I could get you one and send it to you!

I’m still deciding wether to go for the Q5 or Q5s - both with the am5.
Do t know if the Q5s is worth it!


----------



## Steve Guppy

Bjornhall said:


> I live in Sweden and the Am5 is available here, I could get you one and send it to you!
> 
> I’m still deciding wether to go for the Q5 or Q5s - both with the am5.
> Do t know if the Q5s is worth it!


 That's so kind of you, and thank you very much, the offer is very much appreciated, but i actually managed to bag one from eBay used for £65. And i happy to say that it was mint.


----------



## Bjornhall

Steve Guppy said:


> That's so kind of you, and thank you very much, the offer is very much appreciated, but i actually managed to bag one from eBay used for £65. And i happy to say that it was mint.


Great! Would love to find a deal like that myself! Got the module yet, if so, what do you think?

mans any opinion on the Q5/Q5s?


----------



## Steve Guppy

Bjornhall said:


> Great! Would love to find a deal like that myself! Got the module yet, if so, what do you think?
> 
> mans any opinion on the Q5/Q5s?


Personally, i LOVE my Q5. The AM3A amp is perfect for my iems, as i have them all on 2.5mm balanced cables. But im gonna get some over-ears in a couple of months (when funds allow, lol), and am still veering towards Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro's. So the AM5 was bought as a guarantee that I'll be able to drive those, or any other future high-ohm cans. I've tried it briefly with some IEM'S that I've still got on a 3.5mm connection, and I'm happy to report that it sounds just as good. It's impatiently sitting in the drawer waiting for my over ears to arrive...:-D


----------



## sidecross (Jan 26, 2020)

Steve Guppy said:


> Personally, i LOVE my Q5. The AM3A amp is perfect for my iems, as i have them all on 2.5mm balanced cables. But im gonna get some over-ears in a couple of months (when funds allow, lol), and am still veering towards Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro's. So the AM5 was bought as a guarantee that I'll be able to drive those, or any other future high-ohm cans. I've tried it briefly with some IEM'S that I've still got on a 3.5mm connection, and I'm happy to report that it sounds just as good. It's impatiently sitting in the drawer waiting for my over ears to arrive...:-D


I have the q5 and I am very pleased with it.

My complaint with fiio is that I have been trying since December 2018 (no typo error) for am3b or  now the am3d for a balanced 4.4mm connection for my sony mdr 1am2  headphones.

Until fiio offers better customer service for their products, I am in no rush to add more of their products. I have currently 2 btrik's, fa1, fa7, fh5, and btr3.

My concern is not only product support but also their ability to handle a product malfunction. I do hope this concern is unwarranted and products with problems have been resolved for consumers and hope to hear from others with a successful outcome with fiio.


----------



## gazzington

So just to check, have they stopped making amp modules? If so that's ludicrous as the q5s is a new product


----------



## Steve Guppy

gazzington said:


> So just to check, have they stopped making amp modules? If so that's ludicrous as the q5s is a new product



If you were to read this quote as it comes across... 


sidecross said:


> I have the original q5 and read much about the q5s and decided to stay with the q5.
> 
> Fiio's updating to other amp modules is a failure; I have been trying up date an amp module for 4.4mm balanced cable since December 2018 with no success.
> 
> ...


That would appear the case. I've not read anywhere, in the form of an official statement from FiiO, that it is definitively the case, but others seem to think so. 

Would be nice if @FiiO could chip in and clarify


----------



## sidecross

gazzington said:


> So just to check, have they stopped making amp modules? If so that's ludicrous as the q5s is a new product


So far fiio has not addressed this issue. I have made a number of comments concerning this problem without a direct comment from fiio on this issue.

The q5s has the most advanced amp module with three output choice: balanced 2.5mm, 3.5mm, and balanced 4.4mm; the problem is for q5 owners.


----------



## sidecross

One of the reasons I was attracted to and purchased the q5 was the ability to update amp modules without having to purchase an entire new product.

Fiio's inability to address this issue leaves me to conclude that fiio only wants consumers to purchase the q5s and not have the ability to upgrade the q5. 

This is not what their previous marketing of the q5 indicated.


----------



## Theri0n

sidecross said:


> One of the reasons I was attracted to and purchased the q5 was the ability to update amp modules without having to purchase an entire new product.
> 
> Fiio's inability to address this issue leaves me to conclude that fiio only wants consumers to purchase the q5s and not have the ability to upgrade the q5.
> 
> This is not what their previous marketing of the q5 indicated.



Does anyone forbid you to by AM3B or AM3D amp module for your Q5?


----------



## sidecross

Theri0n said:


> Does anyone forbid you to by AM3B or AM3D amp module for your Q5?


Fiio does not currently sell or have available either module for purchase.

It is not an issue of 'forbid'; it is an issue of poor marketing a product I would purchase and have tried to purchase for over 13 months.


----------



## sidecross (Feb 3, 2020)

I would not expect many shipments from fiio in the near future with their Coronavirus and China's markets dropping 8% early today.

Many electronics beside just fiio will be affected; apple is also concerned.


----------



## SupperTime

Absolutely the virus will impact overall economy! 

I do have a q5 available with box however, awsome and super silent


----------



## TC44

I recently received a 2.5mm balanced cable to use with my Q5 / AM3a, Monolith M570 and Sennheiser HD700.  Fortunately for me the cable fits both headphones.  I'm able to run both headphones in low gain with typical volume at 11:00 on the dial so plenty of headroom to spare.  I've had the Q5 for over two years and only used it via bluetooth and just started using it with my Chomebook via USB, it's plug and play and works well.   I perceive an improvement moving from SE to balanced with the AM3a providing better clarity and increased dynamics at normal listening levels.


----------



## TC44

SupperTime said:


> I do have a q5 available with box however, awsome and super silent


 Awesome deal for the Head-fi community.  Great portable DAC/Amp and a steal at your asking price.


----------



## rahessar

My q5 is suddenly playing sound to only right side of headphone.can please help what could be the issue.


----------



## corgifall

Is it playing out of the right side on both the balanced and single ended jacks? Did you already poke the little reset button?


----------



## rahessar

It is playing on right side on single ended Jack and bluetooth connection. I don't have balanced output test. I have also poke reset button.


----------



## corgifall

It playing on just one channel via bluetooth is definitely the big red flag. I'd contact fiio and see if they have an idea of what's wrong. Do you have any of the other amp modules you can test? If you're lucky it's just a amp module that died. Though I'm pretty sure the bluetooth chip is separate from the amp and is actually in the main housing with the DACs. Fingers crossed that part isn't broken.


----------



## Sonic Defender

rahessar said:


> It is playing on right side on single ended Jack and bluetooth connection. I don't have balanced output test. I have also poke reset button.


It will be the jack. Have you confirmed that the headphone cable isn't the issue with other devices? Should have nothing to do with the Bluetooth.


----------



## showme99

Looks like they're back in stock:


FiiO said:


> FiiO AM3D is now available in Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W7R2Y59?ref=myi_title_dp
> 
> Best regards


----------



## FiiO

FiiO Q5 Refurbished Bluetooth 4.0 APTX AAC and DSD-Capable DAC&Amplifier,USB DAC Amplifier Q5 for iPhone/computer/Android/Sony is now available in our Aliexpress store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850406200.html


----------



## iMongui

@FiiO I would like to know if there is any cutoff of the power when the battery its 100% charged. I will explain. I've been using the dac as a desktop dac for the last 6 months but I was always afraid about the durability of the battery if I continue using the device on this setup so I needed to jump to a desktop dac to avoid any damage but if for any reason there is a cutoff on the energy that makes the device to work always directly from the usb instead of use the battery and for some magic reason the battery can be preserved on a very good state I will rethink again to use it as a desktop device because damn, it sounds veeeery very good and my unit is in pristine condition, I just want to know if the batter don't suffer for stay all day connected to the USB port for being used as a desktop unit, that's all


----------



## FiiO

iMongui said:


> @FiiO I would like to know if there is any cutoff of the power when the battery its 100% charged. I will explain. I've been using the dac as a desktop dac for the last 6 months but I was always afraid about the durability of the battery if I continue using the device on this setup so I needed to jump to a desktop dac to avoid any damage but if for any reason there is a cutoff on the energy that makes the device to work always directly from the usb instead of use the battery and for some magic reason the battery can be preserved on a very good state I will rethink again to use it as a desktop device because damn, it sounds veeeery very good and my unit is in pristine condition, I just want to know if the batter don't suffer for stay all day connected to the USB port for being used as a desktop unit, that's all



Dear user,

1. While the device is charging
Because the computer USB port has limited current capacity, the battery is given priority for part of the charging current while the rest powers the device directly.  But if the current draw by the device is high, the battery participates in powering the device as well.  Hence, both the battery and the USB port take part in powering the device while the device is charging.
2. After the battery is full
Because there is no need to charge the battery anymore, the USB port would power the device directly.  The battery would neither be charged nor discharged.
In summary of the above, the powering scheme of the device ensures that the battery may be fully charged while at the same time guaranteeing proper function of the device.  Finally, the battery will be at rest after it is fully charged, thus guaranteeing extended battery life.

Best regards


----------



## Xii4oboii

hi guys, i just get the Q5s type C, once quick question. LDAC is better or Aptx ??

sorry for the nub question ^^


----------



## Dobrescu George

Xii4oboii said:


> hi guys, i just get the Q5s type C, once quick question. LDAC is better or Aptx ??
> 
> sorry for the nub question ^^



LDAC typically has higher rate and better SQ. Also is more sensitive and can disconnect easier,


----------



## Xii4oboii

Dobrescu George said:


> LDAC typically has higher rate and better SQ. Also is more sensitive and can disconnect easier,


noted, since i no need far range so it ok ^^ i try with my iem never had any noise or what coming from LDAC


----------



## Xii4oboii

Guys another quick question, I using ibasso IT04 IEM currently is 2.5mm. got any adapter to intro to convert 2.5mm to 4.5??

Thanks in advance


----------



## Ziggomatic

Xii4oboii said:


> Guys another quick question, I using ibasso IT04 IEM currently is 2.5mm. got any adapter to intro to convert 2.5mm to 4.5??
> 
> Thanks in advance



This is a good one.


----------



## FiiO (Dec 24, 2020)

Would you prefer to get a AM3D-Type C module for your Q5?

We are checking out our users' demands and taking into consideration whether to sell the AM3D-Type C module separately. So it will be highly appreciated if you could share your option with us. And please update us the country you are locating if you are interested in this. Thanks in advance!

*This investigation does not promise that the AM3D-Type C will be sold individually.

Best regards


----------



## dannytang

I'd be interested. I'm located in Canada.


----------



## Rcuello56

One more in Argentina


----------



## AgentXXL

I've been a bit of a Fiio fan since my 1st purchase of an e17 and e9 desktop amp. Over the years I've upgraded my audio solutions. My primary headphones for listening are my Shure SE846 IEMs, Hifiman HE560 v1, and modded Sennheiser HD800 (Dupont resonator mod). Both the HE560 and HD800 have Dekoni replacement earpads.

I was unfortunately duped by the LH Labs/Indiegogo fiasco for over $6300US in product that's never been delivered. At the time I was working full time and had the disposable income. Then life threw a curve - I was forced into early retirement by health issues. Alas this meant a significant drop in disposable income for my audiophile hobby.

As I never received a full desktop amp, I’d been using a Ray Samuels Audio 'The Intruder' balanced portable amp. It had a failure in the left channel so it was sent back to RSA for repair. Being on limited income I couldn't actually afford to repair it at the time. This left my HE560 and HD800 largely unused until I could afford the repairs.

This also meant using the Shure SE846 IEMs as my primaries. While they were OK to use with my phones (both Apple and Android) and a Fiio X3, they didn’t deliver the performance I knew they could. Around Christmas 2019 an anonymous donor gifted me a Fiio BTR5 and I was very pleased with its performance, especially when using the balanced output.

Alas like all battery powered devices can, my BTR5 failed in Dec. 2020 when the battery overheated and bulged, popping the front glass off the body. On a side note, Fiio support has offered to repair my BTR5 for a minimal surcharge, even though the failure happened 1 week out of warranty. It will be sent back to China for repair soon. Regardless, I had saved up some money with plans to buy a newer portable amp/DAC that also offered Bluetooth support. Enter the Fiio Q5s TC…

I read a number of reviews and when I saw Canadian dealer Headphone Bar had them for a slightly reduced price, I decided to take a chance and give one a try. I’ve only had it for a few days but suffice it to say I’m VERY pleased with the performance. I’ve only been able to test my HE560 and HD800 cans in single-ended mode. I’m waiting for some connectors to arrive so I can make 4.4mm adapters for my custom cables (which use mini-XLR 4 pole connectors to allow a variety of connection types). That said, the Q5s TC handles them both quite effortlessly.

The real winner though is using it with my Shure SE846 IEMs. I have 2 balanced MMCX cables for them, one an average quality Mee Audio 2.5mm universal (with adapters), and a new Fiio LC-C 2.5mm purchased at the same time as the Q5s TC from Headphone Bar. The new Fiio cable is also very nice - very supple and flexible, no noticeable microphonics and using quality MMCX connectors that appear to have eliminated the occasional connection issues found with lower-end MMCX connectors.

The Bluetooth capability of the Q5s TC is excellent for both range and quality. It stays connected while roaming about my 1100 sq. foot condo, whereas the BTR5 would struggle when more than 10’ away from the BT source. I’ve just started using the Q5s as a USB DAC with Audirvana running on my MacBook Pro. I’ve been using some of my hi-res library - 88/32, 96/24, 192/24 and DSD256 for the source files. Needless to say, I’m very happy with sound quality and the purchase.

If you’re in the market for a decently powered portable amp/DAC with USB, Bluetooth and other connectivity, I think you’ll be hard-pressed to find much better than the Q5s TC in its price range. The THX AAA amplification is better than I expected. Thank you Headphone Bar and Fiio!


----------



## m_lai

So I read Fiio's recent posting regarding Apple Music and high-res lossless support with Fiio products. I'm still a little confused. I have a Q5 and if I connect an iPhone via a lightning to micro-USB cable (ddHiFi MFi05), will I be able to listen to native 24/192 material? Will any cable work or do I need a special Apple certified cable?


----------



## iMongui

m_lai said:


> So I read Fiio's recent posting regarding Apple Music and high-res lossless support with Fiio products. I'm still a little confused. I have a Q5 and if I connect an iPhone via a lightning to micro-USB cable (ddHiFi MFi05), will I be able to listen to native 24/192 material? Will any cable work or do I need a special Apple certified cable?


Any cable lightning to micro usb that works normally would do on this setup, that's the way im using them and yes, it works correctly (using the stock cable that comes with the Q5)


----------



## FiiO

m_lai said:


> So I read Fiio's recent posting regarding Apple Music and high-res lossless support with Fiio products. I'm still a little confused. I have a Q5 and if I connect an iPhone via a lightning to micro-USB cable (ddHiFi MFi05), will I be able to listen to native 24/192 material? Will any cable work or do I need a special Apple certified cable?


Dear friend, 

Yes, you could also use the lightning adapter comes with the Q5 for help.

Best regards


----------



## Lay. (Jan 31, 2022)

Well that didn't end well. My FiiO Q5 has been sitting on my work table for several years. I used it with my HD660S (Balanced AM3B 4.4mm). This morning when I arrived to my work I was a bit shocked to find out that apparently the battery has popped during the night. Luckily it didn't cause any fire hazard.

I guess I have to find a new DAC AMP with 4.4mm output.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Yikes, that is worrying and looks pretty darn serious. I still have my original Q5 as well. Hope this isn't a normal situation. A battery blowing up like that is really quite a bad thing. Glad nothing worse came of it.


----------



## wilk0076

Ouch, that sucks! I'm curious - did you often or always have it plugged in to USB?  I use my Q5 plugged into my laptop via USB (and charging) almost exclusively.


----------



## Lay.

wilk0076 said:


> Ouch, that sucks! I'm curious - did you often or always have it plugged in to USB?  I use my Q5 plugged into my laptop via USB (and charging) almost exclusively.



It was charging via USB while being used with my laptop.


----------



## wilk0076

Lay. said:


> It was charging via USB while being used with my laptop.



What are you thinking as a replacement for the Q5?  

I have my eye on the iFi xDSD Gryphon, should my Q5 give out...


----------



## Lay.

wilk0076 said:


> What are you thinking as a replacement for the Q5?
> 
> I have my eye on the iFi xDSD Gryphon, should my Q5 give out...



Didn't want to put it on this thread but since you mentioned it I allready fixed the problem.


----------



## wilk0076

Lay. said:


> Didn't want to put it on this thread but since you mentioned it I allready fixed the problem.



Very nice...  

And now back to our regularly scheduled Q5 programming!


----------



## OneL0ve

Lay. said:


> Well that didn't end well. My FiiO Q5 has been sitting on my work table for several years. I used it with my HD660S (Balanced AM3B 4.4mm). This morning when I arrived to my work I was a bit shocked to find out that apparently the battery has popped during the night. Luckily it didn't cause any fire hazard.
> 
> I guess I have to find a new DAC AMP with 4.4mm output.


That might be a pretty easy fix. Is that cover plastic or metal? You can search Aliexpress for a replacement battery (with same specs) and swap it out, then reattach the cover.


----------



## Lay.

OneL0ve said:


> That might be a pretty easy fix. Is that cover plastic or metal? You can search Aliexpress for a replacement battery (with same specs) and swap it out, then reattach the cover.


Changing the battery is easy. Making the bent and broken plastic cover decent looking is not that simple.


----------



## AgentXXL

Lay. said:


> Changing the battery is easy. Making the bent and broken plastic cover decent looking is not that simple.



I had the same thing happen to my 1st BTR5. I contacted Fiio and they offered to repair/replace for a very reasonable fee (shipping was more than the nominal fee). It took a few months with me shipping my unit back to China, but the unit worked like new when received after the repair. I passed it off to a friend as I'd picked up my Q5s-TC as a replacement while the BTR5 was out for repair. I've since picked up a new BTR5 (2021 version) as I prefer its compact size for on the go. 

I still have and use my Q5s-TC but I'm thinking of selling it. The reason is that I now use my Topping DX7 Pro and A90 amp for my listening. Nothing wrong with the Q5s-TC but it would probably be happier with someone who will use it more. Still going back and forth on the sale idea. My hearing is no longer good enough to tell the difference between the ESS and AKM DACs in my gear, so there's not much reason to hold onto it.


----------



## AgentXXL

AgentXXL said:


> I had the same thing happen to my 1st BTR5. I contacted Fiio and they offered to repair/replace for a very reasonable fee (shipping was more than the nominal fee). It took a few months with me shipping my unit back to China, but the unit worked like new when received after the repair. I passed it off to a friend as I'd picked up my Q5s-TC as a replacement while the BTR5 was out for repair. I've since picked up a new BTR5 (2021 version) as I prefer its compact size for on the go.
> 
> I still have and use my Q5s-TC but I'm thinking of selling it. The reason is that I now use my Topping DX7 Pro and A90 amp for my listening. Nothing wrong with the Q5s-TC but it would probably be happier with someone who will use it more. Still going back and forth on the sale idea. My hearing is no longer good enough to tell the difference between the ESS and AKM DACs in my gear, so there's not much reason to hold onto it.



And now I'm back to using the Q5s-TC. Glad I didn't sell it as my Topping DX7 Pro just died. Went to lower the volume using the front panel knob and it would only let me increase the volume. I thought it might be a glitch so I powered off and now it won't power back on. I've removed all cables and am leaving power disconnected overnight to bleed off residual charge from capacitors. I'm not very hopeful though as others have experienced the same issue and had to return their unit to China for repair.


----------

