# Toucan and Boomslang (IBasso Audio) Balanced Review Thread



## paulybatz

I just ordered the Toucan from Ibasso...I have been bothering them for months as soon as they intro'd the pics on their website in January...these are very exciting times...they are so friendly and prompt to respond to emails...they are as excited as all of us here about high quality audio and it shows in what they are doing there.  After ordering and not wishing to pay double shipping, I decided to have them hold the Toucan AMP until the Boomslang DAC is available...
   
  Just received the set...man they are pretty!!!

   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/501028/toucan-and-boomslang-ibasso-audio-balanced-review-thread/150#post_6909784
   
   
  Ok, after listening single ended while waiting for my retermed cable...I had a certain impression of the amp...now listening with my HD650 BALANCED...it is a profound difference, when I say profound, you hear everything in perfect balance, no pun intended.  Nothing is overdone, not too much bass, treble or mids...I honestly never thought I could hear music in this way.  The bass is tremendous, I mean the bass guitar is so perfectly presented that I can visually see the string vibrating and resonating, Im listening to a CD source feeding the TOUCAN John Scofiend "A Go Go" and feel like Im in the studio with these guys, not in the studio, but right in the center of the room with the band.  I also have to note how much I LOVE the HIROSE connectors, they are so easy and stress free to use...more detailed review and analysis to come after I've done some listening...but a little more the drums, the pop, snap of the snare...it drives the HD650s not only perfectly but effortlessly, meaning I have it on low gain setting and a nice listening level is slightly less than 10 o'clock...what is also nice about this amp is it is not only clear and analytical but it is not fatiguing to listen to...the music is so good that you want to just re-listen to all of your favorite artists to hear them like you never have before!!!!


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## Young Spade

Awesome; I've been thinking about ordering one as well. Keep us posted when you get it


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## paulybatz

I am very excited, I "know" already it is going to be great...it was very difficult to tell them to hold the amp until the DAC was ready but good things come to those who wait....I would just order it SPADE! Considering you can use it both balanced and single ended, at the price its a no brainer.


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## Young Spade

Well I have to sell my ALO Rx first as I'm in college and just can't blow money lol.... I've already spent <200 on books and it's just my freshman summer :/
   
  Good thing there are scholarships


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## clou91

Paulybatz, did you get a chance to ask them how long it'll be till the dac is available? I'm very interested in getting the T/B set up and am anxiously awaiting impressions/reviews.


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## kunalraiker

Could not use the portable DAC with any practical DAPs. what is the point of the balanced DAC.


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## wuwhere

Quote: 





kunalraiker said:


> Could not use the portable DAC with any practical DAPs. what is the point of the balanced DAC.


 

 They won't sell many if it only has a balanced out that can only be paired with their balanced amp. I'm actually only interested in their DAC since I have a few amps.


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## clou91

Quote: 





kunalraiker said:


> Could not use the portable DAC with any practical DAPs. what is the point of the balanced DAC.


 
   
  For a netbook set up while I'm in the library between classes.


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## Young Spade

Quote: 





clou91 said:


> For a netbook set up while I'm in the library between classes.


 

 Which is exactly where I get a lot of music in. I'm gonna start bringing the K702s too and get some done that way. A lot more involving than the ER4Ss.....
  Of course the volume's gotta stay low with those lol


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## paulybatz

Two weeks or so for the DAC (Boomslang)


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## richbass

Do you know the price of boomslang ?


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## paulybatz

No price yet...I pre-paid for the Toucan, to avoid a sell-out and will forward payment for the Boomslang when it comes available.
  Pauly


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## ElWappo

Well, I've had a couple of hours with my Toucan, and I must say, although the benefits aren't very substantial they are there.
   
  I'm using it in SE mode, with the built-in DACs in my iPhone 3GS and iPad. Like several of you, I'm waiting for iBasso to release their Westone/UE compatible Balanced cable and of course their matching Boomslang Balanced DAC.
   
  Whilst A/B'ing this evening, the first time I really noticed anything 'substantially' different was with Radiohead's High and Dry.
   
  Part of me wants to send it back to iBasso as the differences I've heard thus far are very minimal, although they are nice. But another part of me realizes that I've not burned it in at all yet, plus I'm not really taking advantage of it since I've no Balanced cable just yet. I know that from reading about the RSA Protector, there was a substantial improvement when using it in Balanced vs. SE.
   
  Alas, by the time I get the balanced cable from iBasso (and the Boomslang), I'll be past the 14 day return policy for the amp. I may just be trying to talk myself into this, but I can't help but think listing to this in Balanced mode should result in another incremental value increase, and again with their Balanced DAC. So, those that are waiting to order everything at once may be on to something!
   
  Here's a pic:


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## logwed

ElWappo, what kind of IEMs are those? They look to be impossibly deep, what kind of impressions did you have?


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## ElWappo

Quote: 





logwed said:


> ElWappo, what kind of IEMs are those? They look to be impossibly deep, what kind of impressions did you have?


 

 They are EarSonics SM3's, customized by Fisher / InEarz. You're right, my ear canals are long, but not impossibly so!


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## nsx_23

Interesting thoughts. I've been looking at portable amps again lately for my UE18, and this looks interesting since it costs less than the RSA.


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## ztsen

and it have balanced input which RSA Protector dont have.


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## paulybatz

I just got word that the boomslang is awaiting a chip and as soon as it arrives (which should be very very soon) they boomslang will be available....


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## Young Spade

^I hope that's true. If I get some spare cash I'd definitely pick that up to use with the Toucan.


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## furyagain

is this a good amp for something like a D7000? or grado 225i?
   
  I have been  thinking about getting a AMP( desktop/ portable for  above two headphones)
   
   
  for using it at home..
  how will it compare to my LD MKV ???? when using headphones like HD600 or DT-880 600ohm>>??
   
  ( I may get a MK3 from someone, if i am not getting this)


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## Trisk3lion

Hmm as i just ordered  a RE-ZERO this amp could be a very nice compliment. Decisions, decisions...


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## mrarroyo

I listened to HiFlight's Toucan amp via a pair of balance OK2 and it sounded very nice. Can't say much else because it was at the Fort Myers Meet last Saturday, 7/24 and I did not spend a lot of time with it. However I am looking forward to the arrival of mine to spend more time with it and the matching DAC.


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## Young Spade

So I'm happy to say that I have my PB1 now and from the start I can say that this amp has a lot of power behind it. I haven't done any critical listening at all (mainly electronic to test the bass) but they do give the cans some power. I love it already.
   
  Later on in the evening I'll do some listening with classical/acoustic/vocal music and see how it holds up. I will do a slight comparison from my old ALO Rx but keep in mind, it's going to be from memory.


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## audioheadfi

Does anybody know when the ibasso DAC is actually coming out?


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## volume

Send iBasso a message, usually very prompt in their response.


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## audioheadfi

Quote: 





volume said:


> Send iBasso a message, usually very prompt in their response.


 
  Ok I will .. cheers.. and I'll post here when i hear anything


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## wolfen68

Quote: 





kunalraiker said:


> Could not use the portable DAC with any practical DAPs. what is the point of the balanced DAC.


 


 H1xx possibilities.


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## HiFlight

Here is a reply that I received from iBasso a few days ago:
   
  ........"We are waiting the PCM2906B supply from TI. Once we receive it, we can release the DB1".......
  
  Quote: 





audioheadfi said:


> Does anybody know when the ibasso DAC is actually coming out?


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





kunalraiker said:


> Could not use the portable DAC with any practical DAPs. what is the point of the balanced DAC.


 

 The iBasso balanced DAC and amp have the performance capabilities to serve as a very small but high quality desktop or bedside rig using the digital outputs of your favorite CDP or SACD player, as the DAC will accept optical, coax and USB.   What separates the Toucan from other portable amplifiers, regardless of price, is that it has the capability to drive nearly all full-sized cans with authority.


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## mrarroyo

After listening to HiFlight's Toucan I concur it has the power/control to drive many a full size can. I hope you all get a chance to listen to the unit and be amazed.


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## HiFlight

Below is what I posted following our Ft. Myers meet regarding our brutal testing of the PB1:
   
    "Yesterday at our SW FL Mini-meet, we were experimenting the with PB1's drive ability and someone suggested trying it with my K1000.  Ha!  Fat chance it could even drive them to an audible level, much less a suitable listening level, but nevertheless, I decided to humor the request and lashed up the K1Ks. 
   
  Believe it or not, to our amazement, the Toucan on high gain was not only able to drive them to an audible level, but also to a satisfying listening level that sounded not only well-balanced, but also one that was tonally correct.   This was done using the balanced output.  Of course, the volume control on the PB1 was nearly maxxed, but nevertheless....!!!
   
  Who woulda thott???? 
   
  Needless to say, the Toucan impressed all who auditioned it with my K1000s and K340s.   In balanced mode, it was also able to drive my HE-5LE's. 
   
  In comparison, my *other* balanced portable did not fare as well. "
   
  Ron


   
  UPDATE:   I did not mean to imply that high gain is needed to drive the HE-5LE using the Toucan's SE output.  It drives them just fine, but balanced there is improvement in imaging and soundstage.


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## paulybatz

Thanks for all the contributions everyone to my thread....I am patiently waiting as I wanted to have both the DAC and AMP, but now I am very lonely...but soon...
   
  I do a lot of listening online so really want to see the full potential of the amp with balanced DAC


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## Young Spade

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> Thanks for all the contributions everyone to my thread....I am patiently waiting as I wanted to have both the DAC and AMP, but now I am very lonely...but soon...
> 
> I do a lot of listening online so really want to see the full potential of the amp with balanced DAC


 
  Same here. I think I'm going to save up and use some of the money I make from selling my summer books back and see how the balanced DAC plays out. Computer + DAC + PB1(AMP) + K702 = amazing desktop rig
   
  Plus right now I'm using the SE with a T51 for an amazing transportable rig as well.


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## paulybatz

No saving up...already paid...waiting for it to be built and shipped!!!!!!
  Soooo Excited!


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## BebopMcJiggy

How much is it going to cost, if you do not mind my asking?


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## debitsohn

they told me less than the toucan.


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## BebopMcJiggy

Yeah I just figured that, having already paid, he could say exactly how much it might cost.


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## Young Spade

^Hmm. And that's good. It's really tempting since I want this headphone cable.... :/


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## paulybatz

Well...I paid for the amp and shipping and once they release I'll pay for for the DAC. 

 Just wanted to reserve my amp...


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## debitsohn

im gonan get both on the sole fact that it sounds as good as bigger systems. it may not be the best but for its size. wow.


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## BebopMcJiggy

Oh, I thought you meant you had paid for the DAC already, my mistake.  Any particular reason you have only reserved the amp?  They shipped mine to the east coast of the US in only 2 to 3 days.


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## Young Spade

Lucky you; mine took about 5 days lol...Sadly when I got it I had a test that week so it was killing me that I waited so long and I still couldn't use it. However I'm getting at least 3 hours in every day now


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## paulybatz

Save shipping


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## Sid-Fi

Ron,
   
  Any way of describing how much of an improvement this is over topkit D10's amp? It obviously has a lot more power, but I'm wondering if it would be a significant improvement in sound quality even when not using the balanced features and when only using IEMs like my IE8, which don't seem to require the additional power.
   
  Since I will be picking up some full-size cans soon (HD 650 or D5000), this is especially intriguing...
   
  Thanks,
  Dave


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## mrarroyo

Dave, if you do not need the DAC in the D10 then the Toucan is smaller and offers the ability to later go balance. On the other hand your IE8 should not require that much power and carrying any amp makes things complex when you are on the go.


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## Sid-Fi

Thanks Miguel. I should add that I am planning on adding a desktop setup and keeping my portable setup for bedside only so that I don't have to keep lugging my onkyo nd-s1 and d10 upstairs to my bedroom every night.
   
  Up until now, I have been planning on getting Nuforce HDP and HD 650 (would be interested in making balanced near to mid term). This looks interesting enough to consider as well.
   
  Dave


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## wolfen68

I think I've missed this so far....can the PB1 also take in SE and output balanced like the Protector? 
   
  Also, can the boomslang output SE?  If not, would an adapter cable return the boomslang's output balanced signal to SE if needed for other SE equipment?  I'm just wondering if it can act as a SE DAC and possibly replace the DAC function of the D10 for folks who have not jumped completely into balanced yet.


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## BebopMcJiggy

No idea about the boomslang but yes, the Toucan does do SE -> balanced like the protector.


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## wuwhere

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> I think I've missed this so far....can the PB1 also take in SE and output balanced like the Protector?
> 
> Also, can the boomslang output SE?  If not, would an adapter cable return the boomslang's output balanced signal to SE if needed for other SE equipment.  I'm just wondering if it can act as a SE DAC and possibly replace the DAC function of the D10 for folks who have not jumped completely into balanced yet.


 

 I asked iBasso that question weeks back. Their reply at that time was the Boomslang's output will only be balanced.


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## wolfen68

Thanks Bebop/wuwhere.
  
  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I asked iBasso that question weeks back. Their reply at that time was the Boomslang's output will only be balanced.


 

 I wish it did and it would be an easy shoe-in as a D10 (as a DAC) replacement.


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## richbass

Guys, Should i go for headstage arrow 12he 2g or toucan ?


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## lucozade

@ ElWappo , does the toucan have rollable opamps and buffers ?


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## doorhandle

Quote: 





richbass said:


> Guys, Should i go for headstage arrow 12he 2g or toucan ?


 

 Have no idea which is 'better', the headstage has got great reviews, but i was chosing between those 2 as well. I chose the Toucan, Ibasso are shipping it Monday....The arrow would involve a 1 month wait or more, which is ridiculous, I am way too impatient.


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





lucozade said:


> @ ElWappo , does the toucan have rollable opamps and buffers ?


 

 No, it does not.


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## lucozade

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> No, it does not.


 

 Thanks @ hiflight


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## doorhandle

What is the charger for the PB1 like?  will I need an adapter to use in the UK?


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## Young Spade

Quote: 





doorhandle said:


> What is the charger for the PB1 like?  will I need an adapter to use in the UK?


 

 A regular US plug I'm guessing. Yea you will if it's not like... the regular plugs here? They're both straight and the same size.


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





doorhandle said:


> What is the charger for the PB1 like?  will I need an adapter to use in the UK?


 
   
  The charger does have the US style plug, but the adapter itself is rated at 100-240vac  50-60 hz


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## TortoiseGTS

Quote: 





doorhandle said:


> Have no idea which is 'better', the headstage has got great reviews, but i was chosing between those 2 as well. I chose the Toucan, Ibasso are shipping it Monday....The arrow would involve a 1 month wait or more, which is ridiculous, I am way too impatient.


 

 I was in the same situation.  I had already placed an order for an Arrow a couple weeks ago, but I decided to cancel it and go with the Toucan instead, which was delivered Monday.  I am not disappointed with its sound (just using SE, no balanced cans).  Not having heard the Arrow, though, I can't be positive it was the right decision.  I will say that the PB1 drives my K702's nicely.


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## doorhandle

Yes, I would have an Headstage Arrow now if they were available, but am confident the PB1 will be just as good though (doesnt really matter as I will never own a Arrow now so I wont know!).
   
  My PB1 Toucan arrived today, very very impressed with Ibasso as a company, very fast delivery (from China) and very professional in their email responses (Robert - Headstage take note!).
   
  In the end I just ordered a USB DAC cable from headstage, which to their credit has been shipped now. I am more than happy with my PB1 though, much prefer its volume knob too, rather than the Arrows dial.
   
  Form factor it fits my fuze pefectly - just a shame the fuze doesnt have a lineout, not so great with my s:flo2 (shape wise) though. But wont be amping either of these long term.
   
  Will try it on my K601's tonight off my laptop, which will be its new home (my fuze doesnt really benefit from an amp with my travel phones).


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## RIDE

Hmmm...this Toucan is really tempting.  Was pretty set on the P-51....now all the buzz around this little amp has me rethinking.
   
  RIDE


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> I think I've missed this so far....can the PB1 also take in SE and output balanced like the Protector?
> 
> Also, can the boomslang output SE?  If not, would an adapter cable return the boomslang's output balanced signal to SE if needed for other SE equipment?  I'm just wondering if it can act as a SE DAC and possibly replace the DAC function of the D10 for folks who have not jumped completely into balanced yet.


 
   
  Although the Boomslang DAC only has a balanced output, it can provide a SE output by simply making up an output cable using the Hirose balanced connector on the DAC end with a standard TRS plug that ties both grounds together with R+ going to ring and L+ going to tip on the amp end of the pigtail.  
   
  This will enable the Boomslang to serve as an "all-purpose"  DAC for desktop as well as portable use and for both SE and balanced applications.


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## Young Spade

It really needs to come out though. My wallet isn't getting any heavier


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## debitsohn

haha i hope it doesnt come out this month, my wwallet is literally unstitching itself.


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## wuwhere

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Â
> Although the Boomslang DAC only has a balanced output, it can provide a SE output by simply making up an output cable using the Hirose balanced connector on the DAC end with a standard TRG plug that ties both grounds together with R+ going to ring and L- going to tip on the amp end of the pigtail.
> Â
> This will enable the Boomslang to serve as an "all-purpose"  DAC for desktop as well as portable use and for both SE and balanced applications.
> Â


 

 Do you know which DAC chip it uses and how many?


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## BebopMcJiggy

Wouldn't it be L+ (pin 5) to tip R+ (pin 2) to ring and  L-,R-,Ground(s) all to shield for a TRS plug?  Well Possibly just grounds to ground (pins 1 + 4) but I am not sure why I thought you bridged - and Ground ->unbalanced ground for balanced Mics -> SE plugs anyhow.  Regardless I just want to be sure I am not confused about your L- to tip.
   
  Also not really important but wouldn't your wallet not getting heavier imply your income is stagnant/you want to spend money you aren't making sooner.  Also your wallet busting apart at the seams would seem to indicate to me you are rolling in the dough!   Too much for your wallet.  Just saying...


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## AVU

Probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway.  How would the Toucan, running into balanced JH13s, fare against a small desktop unit like the Matrix Mini-i also running balanced?  Or an audio-gd Fun/Sparrow running single ended.  Anyone have this or comparable setup or like to hazard some educated predictions?


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## BebopMcJiggy

I mean those are all DAC/amp combos?  I can't really speculate too much now as the boomslang(the ibasso balanced DAC) is not yet released.


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## AVU

you're right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 my bad.  I guess I was just asking about the AMP portion.  I'm assuming the DAC will probably be pretty similar.  I'm just trying to decide whether it's worth it to get a desktop setup or whether the high power of the Toucan + its balanced setup would be able to compete (and add portability!)
  
  Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> I mean those are all DAC/amp combos?  I can't really speculate too much now as the boomslang(the ibasso balanced DAC) is not yet released.


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> Wouldn't it be L+ (pin 5) to tip R+ (pin 2) to ring and  L-,R-,Ground(s) all to shield for a TRS plug?  Well Possibly just grounds to ground (pins 1 + 4) but I am not sure why I thought you bridged - and Ground ->unbalanced ground for balanced Mics -> SE plugs anyhow.  Regardless I just want to be sure I am not confused about your L- to tip.
> 
> Also not really important but wouldn't your wallet not getting heavier imply your income is stagnant/you want to spend money you aren't making sooner.  Also your wallet busting apart at the seams would seem to indicate to me you are rolling in the dough!   Too much for your wallet.  Just saying...


 

 Good catch!!!  That was a typo on my part that I have since edited.  Yes, it is both L&R grounds connected to the ground lug on the plug.  I did not use the shield at all on any of my adapters and have gotten no RF or any other artifacts.  As the leads are very short, trying to add the shield to ground at both ends makes for a rather challenging solder job in a 1/8" TRS and is, IMO, unnecessary.


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## BebopMcJiggy

Err I meant all to sleeve not shield.


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Â
> 
> Do you know which DAC chip it uses and how many?


 

 The Boomslang uses one DAC chip.  Chips are WM8740 and PCM 2906B.   Delivery is behind schedule due to additional shipping delays by TI. 
  iBasso should receive the chips from TI next week after 2 shipping delays. 
   
  I am anticipating that the combination of the Toucan and Boomslang will make a very high-quality desktop package as well as being portable if the performance of my Toucan is any indication.   iBasso stated to me that R&D on the Toucan took over a year.


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## TortoiseGTS

A word of caution:  Be gentle with the gain switches on the back of the Toucan.  I would avoid using them at all, if possible.  I switched them only a couple times before the two on the right broke off.  iBasso told me that they have not seen this problem before and that I was probably using something too hard to switch them.  The only thing I could fit in that tiny space, though, was a paper clip.  I was a little worried to begin with because they looked fragile, but they felt solid enough the first time I moved them.  Hopefully others won't have the same problem, but I feel this design could be improved.  I don't see the need for four tiny switches over one larger, sturdier one.  Who is going to change the gain on the + and - or left and right individually?


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





tortoisegts said:


> A word of caution:  Be gentle with the gain switches on the back of the Toucan.  I would avoid using them at all, if possible.  I switched them only a couple times before the two on the right broke off.  iBasso told me that they have not seen this problem before and that I was probably using something too hard to switch them.  The only thing I could fit in that tiny space, though, was a paper clip.  I was a little worried to begin with because they looked fragile, but they felt solid enough the first time I moved them.  Hopefully others won't have the same problem, but I feel this design could be improved.  I don't see the need for four tiny switches over one larger, sturdier one.  Who is going to change the gain on the + and - or left and right individually?


 

 Although it is doubtful that anyone would want or need to change the gain between L & R separately, I can see the need for 4 isolated switches as there are 4 amplifier circuits,  plus and minus phase amplifiers for L, and plus and minus phase amplifiers for R. 
   
  It was probably not possible to source a 4-gang switch of a size that would fit onto the circuit board. 
   
  I use a small flat-blade jewelers screwdriver to change the gain switches, although I have found that low gain is suitable for all of my phones, including my K340 and HE-5LE, hence I rarely change the setting from +6 anymore.


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## debitsohn

ouch! sorry to see your injured PB1! are they going to repalce it?


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## Koelsch

first post after such a long time hiding around. how would you owners compare the pb1 to other amplifiers of the same price range? it's ability to drive high impedance headphones and a brief description of it's sound characteristics? 
   
  and could i check, what did the package come with? did it have some adapters or jacks for termination purposes?


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## debitsohn

i feel (my opinion) it outshines many amps even in the immediate price range above it.  (portable).  i still need to do a sitdown witht he PB1 vs the asgard but i think it would be pretty close.  coming from a portable amp that says a lot. 
   
  package came with no connectors. gotta buy them for 9$ each. comes with charger, pleather case, rubber feet, warranty card, i think a mini-mini too.


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## doorhandle

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> ... although I have found that low gain is suitable for all of my phones, including my K340 and HE-5LE, hence I rarely change the setting from +6 anymore.


 


 Could you explain the benefit of using low gain (+6) rather than +15? is it just volume? or are there sonic differences?


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





doorhandle said:


> Could you explain the benefit of using low gain (+6) rather than +15? is it just volume? or are there sonic differences?


 
   
  It keeps me from using just the very lower portion of the volume control travel.  With the phones that I am using, matching the gain to the performance requirements of the phones seems to me to deliver smoother, better balanced sound.  YMMV!


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## doorhandle

Ah ha, nicely explained thanks.


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## Roscoeiii

HiFlight,
   
  I see that you have both the Protector and the PB1. How would you compare the sound of the two? I'm particularly interested in their balanced outputs and how well each pairs with the HE-5LE (which I also have).


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## kostalex

Is it possible to mod iPod 5.5 gen for balanced output?


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## hasanyuceer

Very curious about this too...
  
  Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> HiFlight,
> 
> I see that you have both the Protector and the PB1. How would you compare the sound of the two? I'm particularly interested in their balanced outputs and how well each pairs with the HE-5LE (which I also have).


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## AVU

I'd be curious how the PB-1 compares to the D4 too.
   
   I did a strenuous comparison between the modded D4 and the Audio-gd Sparrow, with the sparrow edging out the D4 in the solidity of its presentation, the deepness of its bass, and the smoothness and sensuality of its upper register without losing details.  But perhaps the PB1 would upend that, seeing that it's balanced...
  
  Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> Very curious about this too...
> Â


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> HiFlight,
> 
> I see that you have both the Protector and the PB1. How would you compare the sound of the two? I'm particularly interested in their balanced outputs and how well each pairs with the HE-5LE (which I also have).


 
   
  I have listened to both in balanced mode with a variety of music.  Both of these amps are very capable performers and can easily drive the HE-5LE.
   
  The differences are are fewer than one would expect considering the large difference in price.  When comparing the two, I tried to balance the volume by ear as closely as possible, and swapped inputs from my H120 after listening to each for about 15 or 20 seconds of the same music selection. 
   
  I also tried both using Low gain on the PB1 and Mid gain on the Protector.  While both could provide a reasonable listening level at this gain setting, it was obvious that high gain on each would be more appropriate, as the at lower gain settings, the Protector was running at about 4PM on the volume setting vs 2PM on the PB1.  At the highest gain setting on both, my listening levels were about 10PM on PB1 vs 1PM on the Protector. 
   
  Subjectively, both are tonally correct, and present the instrument harmonics and overtones quite accurately.  The differences when playing music that does not have a great deal of dynamic range are not great.   For background music or casual listening where one is not devoting much attention to the music, both sound rather similar.   Differences between the two amplifiers become more apparent when listening at higher volume levels, and when listening to recordings which incorporate a wide dynamic range with many transients, especially low frequency transients such as kick drums, tympani, etc.  
   
  It is here that the 10 volt greater voltage swing of the PB1 compared to the Protector makes itself apparent.  Bass transients are sharper and overall bass seem to me to be better controlled than in the Protector.   In busy selections with many different instruments playing at differing volume levels, the PB1 is better able to put space around each instrument and render better individual musical details and nuances.    Soundstage is wider in the PB while imaging is very good with both.
   
  It is difficult to assess the accuracy of the imaging as so much depends upon the studio mix when recorded.  I did listen to a couple binaural recordings and both amps portrayed accurate instrument placement.  It is in the areas of soundstaging and accurate stable imaging that the benefits of the balanced outputs are most readily apparent when compared to listening to the SE outputs of both amps. 
   
  Overall, I like the detail and sense of space that the PB1 delivers.  The PB1 will reveal shortcomings in the recording such as sibilance to a greater extent than the Protector. 
   
  I much prefer the all-metal Hirose connector used in the PB1 balanced output.  They are much easier to solder than the plastic ones used in the Protector and are considerably easier to attach and remove. 
   
  Some final comments that summarize my impressions are as follows:
   
  Size/Portability:   Protector
  Ease of gain changing:  Protector
  Ease of volume changing:  PB1
  Depth of bass:  PB1
  Control of bass: PB1
  Transient response: PB1
  Susceptible to sibilance:
  PB1: more
  Protector: less
   
  Can use both BAL and SE simultaneously:
  PB1: Yes
  Protector: No
   
  Balanced + SE inputs:
  PB1: Yes
  Protector: No
   
  Choice of case color: 
  PB1: Yes
  Protector: Yes
   
  Warranty:  Protector (lifetime)
   
  Ability to drive HE-5LE:  Both
   
  My personal preference happens to be the PB1 due to its increased headroom and dynamic range for the type of music to which I most frequently listen.  Others may well prefer the more compact size of the Protector. 
   
  Regardless of ones personal preferences, much credit should be given to both RSA and iBasso for bringing to market these well-designed balanced portables that can equal or exceed the performance of many desktop amplifiers!


----------



## paulybatz

HUGE thanks to HiFlight for his contributions to the thread...as well, heard from IBasso, another delay from TI for the chips for the Boomslang...soon, I am patient but am very excited for this set!


----------



## debitsohn

wow great write up Ron. youre spot on about the PB1. never had the protector so cant comment on the rest.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Wow HiFlight/Ron.
   
  Many thanks for that very comprehensive comparison. A very illuminating comparison. I am in your debt. It is comparisons like that which make HeadFi such a wonderful forum.
   
  I never thought that I'd be able to use portable amplification with the HE-5LE, much less a balanced one. But looks like Toucan here I come!


----------



## Roscoeiii

And any recommendations for an adaptor to 4-pin XLR from the Toucan balanced out? Does this require DIYing a cable at present or are there adaptors available that can be bought off the shelf?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> And any recommendations for an adaptor to 4-pin XLR from the Toucan balanced out? Does this require DIYing a cable at present or are there adaptors available that can be bought off the shelf?


 

 I made my own Hirose>4-pin XLR.   As long as you have a female Hirose socket available to unscrew the male connector,  it is a very straight-forward DIY project.  The Hirose used in the PB1 is much easier to work with than the tiny right-angle pins in the plastic connector used in the Protector.
   
  I think Whiplash Audio is now making adapters for the PB1...you might drop Craig an email or PM to be sure.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks HiFlight. Minds are more clear now..


----------



## rhw

HiFlight/Ron, thanks for the review/comparison.
  (I also see the extented dynamics, cleaner sound, firmer bass when going from SE to balanced on the PB1.)


----------



## ztsen

I managed to try th PB1 yesterday. My impression only on SE, not able to try the balanced.
   
  Overall result PB1 give me a smooth top, full body, punchy bass, warm bottom, good soundstage. For certain song the bass is too impactful for my liking, maybe not really suitable for TF10. Compare with D10, the sibilance is more easily spot.
   
  I still prefer my D10 with topkit. As a result, I will hold on my D10 for sometime.


----------



## muddyglass

how do you open up the hirose connector for soldering? it came with three pieces: the main silver connector with a slightly retractable hood, a gold wire wrap, and a black sheathing. are there instructions or a tutorial somewhere? thanks.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Attach it to a female hirose connector, use that to hold it in place while you unscrew the retractable hood/tail section from it.  Just stick it on there and unscrew from the back (not the free spinning retractable part)...  reverse the procedure to re-attach.  I believe they have some sort of rig to disassemble them that costs too much, but if you have access to a PB1 then just stick it on there and unscrew.


----------



## muddyglass

Quote:


bebopmcjiggy said:


> Attach it to a female hirose connector, use that to hold it in place while you unscrew the retractable hood/tail section from it.  Just stick it on there and unscrew from the back (not the free spinning retractable part)...  reverse the procedure to re-attach.  I believe they have some sort of rig to disassemble them that costs too much, but if you have access to a PB1 then just stick it on there and unscrew.


 

 thanks!


----------



## ztsen

From what I see the 6 metal connectors are so close to each other... you really need a steady hand to solder it.


----------



## HiFlight

I use a "3rd Hand" to hold the pin housing and leads while soldering.  The Hirose inline pins are much easier to solder than the 90 degree pins in the Protector plastic connector.  A head-mounted magnifier also is a great help.  Lightly tinning the pins prior to soldering the 4 leads also makes for a quicker "on & off" with your iron.
   
  One might consider sacrificing one of your connectors for practice prior to attempting a complete interconnect.  It is important to get your iron on and off quickly to avoid burning back the insulation on the lead wires.  The more bare wire, the greater the chance for a short when reassembling the connector. 
   
  As with any skill, practice is *very* beneficial.


----------



## rhw

Boomslang offer is online on iBasso site
  http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=61


----------



## paulybatz

I just received word my set is packaged up...so I'll have it as soon as I return to work hopefully Monday next!!!!

 Woo-hoo, can't wait to listen to this set!!!!


----------



## dinkoy

any idea of the synergy when used with Grado 325iS?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dinkoy said:


> any idea of the synergy when used with Grado 325iS?


 

 Do you have a balanced 325iS?


----------



## dinkoy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Do you have a balanced 325iS?


 

 nope, i was asking for the SE output.


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





dinkoy said:


> any idea of the synergy when used with Grado 325iS?


 

 It's a pretty neutral amp.


----------



## guitargeek

JH13- toucan/ ttvj slim/ protector/ ALO Rx? 



 I'm pairing my JH13s with an iPod Nano 4G and the result is a very bright sound. which amp offers a mellow/warm sound? heard that the toucan can offer almost everything that the protector can.


----------



## pekingduck

I guess the TTVJ Slim becos of its tube-like signature.
  
  Quote: 





guitargeek said:


> JH13- toucan/ ttvj slim/ protector/ ALO Rx?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pairing my JH13s with an iPod Nano 4G and the result is a very bright sound. which amp offers a mellow/warm sound? heard that the toucan can offer almost everything that the protector can.


----------



## paulybatz

I DECIDED ON THE SILVER PAIR!
  THEYLL BE SHIPPING TODAY!


----------



## volume

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> I DECIDED ON THE SILVER PAIR!
> THEYLL BE SHIPPING TODAY!


 


 congratulations on a fine decision.


----------



## Xan7hos

congrats! i'd like to hear more impressions about the balanced dac before I pull the trigger on the combo. I totally would've gotten silver had I kept my HF-2s


----------



## mrarroyo

For those asking for synergy with Grado I just tried an RS-1 using the Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adapter and the RS-1 sounded very good out of the Toucan Amp. The source was the Boomslang DAC fed from a cheap Philips DVD Player.


----------



## debitsohn

i used my HF2 balanced through the db1/pb1 and it sounded great. didnt try it SE'd .


----------



## Jalo

Mraroyo and debitsohn, thanks for the above posts. However, when you say the "dbi/pb1 sounded great" that really didn't do anything for me or to those who are curious about this combo. How great "art thou"? Is it Protector great? is it Pico Amp/dac great? is it Lisa III great? Is it Stepdance great? Is it Ibaso D4 great? Anything can sound great, some people think the Apple ear bud coming out of iphone sounded great. Without any measure of greatness, I really don't know how great the combo sounds. I am not asking for any full review or anything like that. But it would help to understand the level it is at if you can compare some attributes to other know amp or dac. Thanks.


----------



## debitsohn

well i never had any of the amps you named. plus its hard to compare to RSA amps and whatnot because this is a amp DAC combo. if you look at the pb1/db1 as a single unit then yes i think theyre better than any of the portable amps ive owned (shadow, p51, pico slim).  ill save any comparisons to desktop amps for those with more experience.


----------



## Jalo

Thanks for the feedback. To be better than those amps that you mentioned are no easy job. But are they clearly better (meaning someone can tell readily) or just somewhat better (meaning it requires some critical listening to tell the difference)? Thanks again.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Mraroyo and debitsohn, thanks for the above posts. However, when you say the "dbi/pb1 sounded great" that really didn't do anything for me or to those who are curious about this combo. How great "art thou"? Is it Protector great? is it Pico Amp/dac great? is it Lisa III great? Is it Stepdance great? Is it Ibaso D4 great? Anything can sound great, some people think the Apple ear bud coming out of iphone sounded great. Without any measure of greatness, I really don't know how great the combo sounds. I am not asking for any full review or anything like that. But it would help to understand the level it is at if you can compare some attributes to other know amp or dac. Thanks.


 
   
  As all comparisons are subjective, considering the variety of musical genre's and different phones involved, I can  state my opinions based on my comparisons using Sony SA5000's, AKG K-340's, AKG K-501's, HE-5LE's, and IEMs Yuin G1A and Westone ES3X, all balanced. 
   
  The DB1/PB1 combination provides a level of performance that previously was not possible in a portable package.   It can effortlessly drive all of my phones and is truthfully the only amplifier that I have heard that provides palpable bass that one can feel as well as hear. 
   
  As far as comparisons to other portables, the Toucan is, IMO, the best performing amplifier that iBasso has yet introduced.  I have owned most of the Xin amps, all of the iBasso portables, the Decware Zen and the RSA Protector.   From the standpoint of output power, accuracy of imaging and overall tonal accuracy, to my ears, the fully-balanced Boomslang/Toucan combination tops the list.
  I found that for driving my collection of balanced phones, my preference is the iBasso combo.  I have since sold my Protector. 
   
  I hope these subjective opinions are of some help to you, as I have not done any measurements using my test equipment.  I don't believe that test measurements will show any significant differences.  The human ear is probably one of the most discriminating test instruments one can use.  The only problem is that everyones ears are not calibrated the same!
   
  Ron


----------



## Jalo

Ron, Your impression is most appreciated. Yes, I know all comparisions are subjective, but at least you are comparing to a common set of test equipment--your ear. And within that same equipment, you are able to rate them accordingly and I respect that. Since you are a connoisseuir of good amps. Do you have any plan to take a look at the Stepdance? SR71b, solo/Rx-MKii combo, Lisa Mini when they become available? What a time we live in. Thanks.


----------



## mrarroyo

While at the Fort Myers Meet on July 24th that Ron (HiFlight) hosted I had the pleasure to listen to the Toucan with various of the cans mentioned by Ron. Since I have also listened to the Toucan in SE mode with the Audio Technica ATH-ESW9, Head Direct HiFiMAN RE252, and UE TripleFi 10. I find the sound out of the Toucan to be amongst the best (top tier) portable amp I have heard and I am looking forward to obtaining a balance cable for the UE TripleFi 10 as well as buying an iRiver H120 or H140 to put the Toucan/Boomslang through the "balanced" testing.


----------



## JDUBS

Does anyone have thought yet on the Boomslang vs. another (semi-) portable balanced DAC, the Apogee Mini-DAC?  It is what I currently have and its awesome....just a tad big sometimes.
   
  Thanks,
  Jim


----------



## HiFlight

Until someone actually compares the SE output of other DACs to the balanced output of the Boomslang in combination with the PB1, any opinions would only be speculation.

 I have connected my transformer-coupled MagiDAC through my Toucan and it sounded great.  Can I hear a big difference between it and the Boomslang?  Not so much tonally, but IMO, the accuracy of the imaging is better in the fully-balanced system.  Hearing a very accurate soundstage with superb imaging, while admittedly a psychoacoustic rather than measureable difference, greatly increases my enjoyment of my recordings and streaming music. 
   
  Ron


----------



## beachgeek

Is the Toucan really $229 for a balanced ss amp?  I was looking for a balanced ss amp no greater than $200, this might work. 
  Some people seem to look down their noses on the iBasso.  Not me I'm just getting by.
  I have a $50 indeed amp that I hooked up to my computer that sounds great to me.
   
  Cheapo ears for a cheapo budget, can't get any better than that.
  lol


----------



## debitsohn

you gotta count for shipping + if youre gonna go balanced you have to reterminate or recable your headphone + if youre going to get the boomslang + the interconnect = much more than $229.  im just saying its worth its price to me, but you will be going over your 200$ initial budget.
   
  but yea i had no idea ibasso was putting out quality products like this.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> you gotta count for shipping + if youre gonna go balanced you have to reterminate or recable your headphone + if youre going to get the boomslang + the interconnect = much more than $229.  im just saying its worth its price to me, but you will be going over your 200$ initial budget.
> 
> but yea i had no idea ibasso was putting out quality products like this.


 
   
  Yes, the phones will have to be re-terminated for balanced operation, but keep in mind that the Toucan can still output a balanced signal even with a SE input.   Using a balanced input will, of course, further improve the end results, but still the resulting BTL output gives the same 25.2 voltage swing as does the balanced input and many of the sonic benefits of the fully-balanced system. 
   
  One can consider the DB1/PB1 as a modular system, starting with the basic Toucan driving SE headphones, later adding the headphone re-terminations and adapter cable, then,  if so desired, move to a fully balanced system as time and money permit. 
   
  Although the thread posts here mostly revolve around the balanced capabilities of the Toucan and Boomslang, keep in mind that the Toucan still sounds very good thru the SE output.  
   
   
  Ron


----------



## airwax

I just heard the LCD2 (not mine) through the Toucan, and it sounds superb, The Toucan is really powerful.
   
  Is there a discount if you buy a pair (db1 and pb1)?


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





airwax said:


> I just heard the LCD2 (not mine) through the Toucan, and it sounds superb, The Toucan is really powerful.
> 
> Is there a discount if you buy a pair (db1 and pb1)?


 

 nice.  no i doubt theres a discount, but it never hurts to ask!


----------



## beachgeek

I used to reconnect and make cables a long time ago (30 years), but I am thinking I can save money by doing my own recabling.  Then get the DAC later. 
   
  I have heard some good thinks about iBasso at work.  How much difference is there between the Toucan and the T3?  The T3 is about 1/2 the price.  I am looking for an amp now,  I have a DAC I think I can fix.
   
  Thanks for the help,


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





beachgeek said:


> I used to reconnect and make cables a long time ago (30 years), but I am thinking I can save money by doing my own recabling.  Then get the DAC later.
> 
> I have heard some good thinks about iBasso at work.  How much difference is there between the Toucan and the T3?  The T3 is about 1/2 the price.  I am looking for an amp now,  I have a DAC I think I can fix.
> 
> Thanks for the help,


 

 The T3 is a highly-regarded, very small amplifier that was designed to be ultra-portable and interface well with IEMs.   It is about the size of an aspirin tin, but does perform its intended use very well.  It provides a wide and tonally accurate soundstage.  The Toucan, OTOH,  is considerably more powerful and about the size of a package of regular-sized cigarettes.
   
  The Toucan also has provisions for both SE and Balanced input as well as SE and Balanced output.   I really don't think it is a fair to either amplifier to try to equate one to the other.   If you are looking for ultimate portability and long battery life, the T3 is a good choice, however if you have any intentions at all of expanding your system, the Toucan would be the logical choice.


----------



## beachgeek

Sounds like I should save up for the Toucan. Thanks


----------



## mrarroyo

Ron, I will send you a PM tomorrow. Perhaps we can get together next weekend! (it is a 3-day one for those of us still having to punch in).


----------



## flargosa

Are there a portable sources which output analog balance or does one have to buy the Boomslang and hook it up to a portable source via optical out to get the full benefits?


----------



## kostalex

Simillar question- it possible to mod iPod 5.5 gen for balanced output?


----------



## hasanyuceer

Or diyMod?
  
  Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Simillar question- it possible to mod iPod 5.5 gen for balanced output?


----------



## paulybatz

Just got them in the mail!!!
 Have to wait till the kids get to bed to unpack and snap pics


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





flargosa said:


> Are there a portable sources which output analog balance or does one have to buy the Boomslang and hook it up to a portable source via optical out to get the full benefits?


 

 You could make a cable to go from balance (whatever you have) to the iBasso Hirose. Then you could feed the balance analog signal to the Toucan amp. However I can see this working only at home since I am not aware of any DAP that outputs in balance format.


----------



## HiFlight

Probably the best choice for a really quality portable system is to feed the DB1/PB1 with the optical output of an iRiver H120 or 140.   I consider Rockbox about a necessity on my iRivers.


----------



## paulybatz

HERE THEY ARE, THE FRATERNAL TWINS!!!!!
  WHAT A FANTASTICALLY POWERFUL DUO...BATMAN AND ROBIN!!!!!!
   
  Ill post my review and impressions after I have had time to do some extensive listening and A/Bing with my LISAIII and D4 setups!!!
  ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THANK YOU IBASSO for top notch quality, for extremely reasonable prices, if this were made/sold by anyone in the US, you are looking at 1K easy, that is how good this set is without burn in!!!!
   
  Pauly


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> nice.  no i doubt theres a discount, but it never hurts to ask!


 

 well I emailed Ibasso, and the answer is you're right, they don't have a discount. oh well.


----------



## paulybatz

I'm waiting for my HD 650 cable to be reterminated...however listening to this set a bit more is just incredible. 

 An unbeatable deal, this powers the HD 650 perfectly...I cannot wait to see what she does in balanced mode!!!


----------



## airwax

I'm confused if I should get the amp first and the DAC later, or buy them all together. lol. It becomes pretty expensive suddenly.


----------



## wuwhere

If I were you I would get the amp first. You can't really use the DAC unless you already have an amp that has a balanced input. Also, the Toucan accepts SE input. And there is also the added cost of converting your hp to balance.
  
  Quote: 





airwax said:


> I'm confused if I should get the amp first and the DAC later, or buy them all together. lol. It becomes pretty expensive suddenly.


----------



## mrarroyo

Good logic. Now, who wants to sell me an iRiver H120/H140 in good shape.


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> If I were you I would get the amp first. You can't really use the DAC unless you already have an amp that has a balanced input. Also, the Toucan accepts SE input. And there is also the added cost of converting your hp to balance.


 
  I guess you're right. I'll probably get an amp first. Thanks. Ibasso here I come. lol.


----------



## debitsohn

the cost of retermination isnt too bad. you can find  a lot of people that would do it pretty cheap. if you need some recommendations, let me know.  if you cant afford both the DAC and amp, i would say get the amp and reterminate a headphone... also depends on which headphone though. i wouldnt pick one thats too cheap.


----------



## paulybatz

I would consider always buying both the amp and DAC together as you will save on double shipping...in addition, these amps are built to last so the money spent up front will be enjoyed down the road.  When I bought my first set of phones, it killed me to spend that much, but Im glad I didn't start with a throw away pair or low end...wishing Id spent the extra 100/200, just spent it to start as I learned my lesson in other hobbys, just buy what you want and enjoy it, as long as you are going to USE it, spend the extra $$...I did do a little toying in head-fi and then just gave some of those things away to friends to get them into the hobby a bit!
   
  In terms of the price/performance ratio on the Toucan and Boomslang, it really is an incredible deal...my LISAIII was much, much more and it doesnt have a DAC, Im having a cable made so I can feed her and do some A/B comparisons, once Ive had some more time with the TOUCAN


----------



## debitsohn

My combo is for sale if Anyone is interested.


----------



## wuwhere

Has anyone tried the Boomslang with a HiFace yet?


----------



## Young Spade

With debit, my PB1 is up for sale if anyone's interested. About 30 hours and perfect condition. PM Me


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





young spade said:


> With debit, my PB1 is up for sale if anyone's interested. About 30 hours and perfect condition. PM Me


 

 i had a lot of ppl that just wanted the pb1, you should be able to sell it quick.


----------



## wuwhere

Two Toucans already in the FS?


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Two Toucans already in the FS?


 

 Well for me, there's nothing I don't like, I'm just going to go back to the portable route for a whiile and I need some money lol.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Two Toucans already in the FS?


 

 yea if i could keep it and still build my desktop combo i would do that in a heart beat. im considering selling everything else i own and keeping the combo with my desktop combo.  we'll see what happens. all in all though, i need the money for my desktop amp.


----------



## mrarroyo

The Toucan and Boomslang have 190 hours of burn-in and I have not heard any major differences in the last 100 hours or so thus I will stop the burning in tomorrow at about 205 hours or so. Now I am waiting for an iRiver and a new cable to re-terminate to balance operation for an UE TripleFi 10.
   
  Using an Audio Technica ESW9 the sound out of the Toucan is very involving, detailed, clear, but above all very musical. Quite happy with the combo, cheers.


----------



## paulybatz

In action at the office...after many days of listening cannot be happier with the set.
  It produces sound exactly as I wish for it to, perfectly neutral, clean and clear.
   
  The quality of the pots and construction is tremendous and for the price...again, unbeatable.
   
  Forget about the other small balanced amps on the market, they are more money and simply cannot compete with the Toucan's versatility
   
  For example...Im actually listening single ended right now in the office as you can tell, I leave a pair of Ultrasone 2500s at the office
   
  So this is an amp you can grow into, forget about desktop amps too...I like the ability to take these things around with me, not necessarily carry them around as I walk, run, jog and listen but to take them to the office and home and be able to pack them in my briefcase.
   
  A little Dave, Under the Table and Dreaming this morning...from my laptop, Boomslang is perfect!
   
  I cannot understand the few that are for sale already, if you can save a couple bucks on those, and are on the fence buy them up and start listening!


----------



## Young Spade

Very nice paulybatz, very nice. I had the Toucan a while back and loved it, great sound, very powerful and through SE drove my K702s very well.


----------



## paulybatz

Now Im listening to Pandora, streaming Jerry Garcia Band channel!!!
 Fantastic, considering buying the better, higher resolution stream...anyone out there try it yet?


----------



## mrarroyo

I have been using just the Toucan single ended being fed from an iPod and with an ALO line out. The Westone 2 seems to have a better affinity than the UE TripleFi 10, the treble is more detailed the sound is clearer and there is more air between the notes. With the stock cable/tips the Westone 2 is the better match of the two. I am waiting or comply tips and we will see if the sound gets better or not.


----------



## AVU

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> yea if i could keep it and still build my desktop combo i would do that in a heart beat. im considering selling everything else i own and keeping the combo with my desktop combo.  we'll see what happens. all in all though, i need the money for my desktop amp.


 
   
  This is a question I had, and maybe no one here can answer, as you all seem to have either super nice desktop rigs, or all portables, but here goes:
   
  Can anyone compare (or guess, but I'd like a real detailed A to B comparison) of the Toucan/Boomslang combo against a home amp + dac unit (either together or separates) of similar price?  Balanced or not?  Just wondering how this would stack up to something like the Audio-Gd Sparrow or Fun, to the Matrix-mini-i (balanced), the Audinst HUD-mx, Yulong D100, NuForce HDP, and so forth, all of which are the same price or cheaper, though obviously not as portable.


----------



## mrarroyo

AVU you pay a premium when you go to a portable, specially if balanced. This due of course to miniaturization, if you do not need portability get a desktop amp/dac. I know I am going to get flamed for this.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> AVU you pay a premium when you go to a portable, specially if balanced. This due of course to miniaturization, if you do not need portability get a desktop amp/dac. I know I am going to get flamed for this.


 

 I agree.  When you shrink things down, something's going to have to give.  Still, I'm amazed by the apparent value proposition of this particular combo.  The only drawback I found during burn-in is that the amp's wall wart generates a buzzing noise when plugged in when the balanced DAC input is used.  Apparently, it's designed to be used only off-grid.  Interestingly the buzz is not present if the S/E input is used while similarly plugged into AC.  No biggie, just found it interesting.


----------



## Xan7hos

Just recieved my PB1 Toucan. Holy Cow I was expecting this thing to arrive in a couple weeks, but I  guess international shipping has gotten much much better (literally showed up 3 days after order placed).
   
  Just a nitpicky note, my PB1 arrived buried under a slew of accessories, and while the new anodization process adobted by iBasso is top notch, I just don't like the idea of the items potentially harming the surface of the amp. Definitely would've been nice if the amp wasn't exposed (maybe an electrostatic bag?). That being said, while there was some residue, none of these things produced any scratches
   
   
  Overall build quality is top notch, very solid, aesthetically/design wise everything just makes sense. I'm really impressed with the quality of the Alps pot
   
   I plugged it in to my HD-5 and Valab NOS dac. Headphones were RE0 single ended. Right away I noticed that it was very laid back, it took away some of the treble energy of the RE0. However, bass extension and quantity has increased, making the pairing with the RE0 a very laid back combination. I can't comment much on imaging and soundstage at this moment. Right now I'm diggin the sound, and I can't wait to reterminate my HE-5 and see how it sounds. Just to note these are impressions with very little burn in <10hrs.


----------



## warp08

Same here, it got here in 3 days from China via EMS.  My issue was that I had ordered the silver version and ended up with the black one. Apparently their webstore doesn't quite support Safari, because I specifically remember specifying silver and they said their ordering system showed black.  They offered to exchange them, but I would have had to pay return shipping.  Communication was responsive with them.  This is my first iBasso purchase and so far, so good.
   
  The extra set of screws in a small plastic bag plus shipping 5 sticky silicone feet instead of 4 in case you lose one are nice touches as well.


----------



## muddyglass

am i going insane, or does the pb1's battery recharge in just 2 hours? the ibasso manual says it should take 4 hours to charge. i've completely emptied and charged the battery a few times already and it's been 2 hours or so each time.


----------



## Noir7

make the RE0 more laid back sounding, than this amp have a good synergy with treble centric headphone/iem?
  
  Quote: 





xan7hos said:


> Just recieved my PB1 Toucan. Holy Cow I was expecting this thing to arrive in a couple weeks, but I  guess international shipping has gotten much much better (literally showed up 3 days after order placed).
> 
> Just a nitpicky note, my PB1 arrived buried under a slew of accessories, and while the new anodization process adobted by iBasso is top notch, I just don't like the idea of the items potentially harming the surface of the amp. Definitely would've been nice if the amp wasn't exposed (maybe an electrostatic bag?). That being said, while there was some residue, none of these things produced any scratches
> 
> ...


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





muddyglass said:


> am i going insane, or does the pb1's battery recharge in just 2 hours? the ibasso manual says it should take 4 hours to charge. i've completely emptied and charged the battery a few times already and it's been 2 hours or so each time.


 

 haha I don't see the problem then 
  Well it might be the difference in voltage between the chargers? Of the wall I mean, but since that's going to the adapter halfway though I don't see why it would matter.... oh well. When I had mine it charged pretty fast too; never died on me though; really great amp.


----------



## Xan7hos

Quote: 





noir7 said:


> make the RE0 more laid back sounding, than this amp have a good synergy with treble centric headphone/iem?


 
   
  Bare in mind those are initial impressions on an amp with little burn in (if it matters to you). I'm listening to the toucan with a Grado SR-125, which has your typical grado signature (i.e. energetic treble), via single ended output. So far I'm diggin its ability to bring out the bass, but its tight and not muddy whatsoever; it does not interfere with the signature Grado mids. I do not feel like it "tamed" or smoothed out the treble much for this headphone, but at the same time it's less fatiguing to listen to (as opposed to ampless), and it definitely helps balance out the lower end of the spectrum


----------



## novacav

i definitely agree it's less fatiguing, the bass from this amp is gorgeous. i've been using the pb1 in SE with a pico dac and it sounds excellent.... very detailed without sacrificing serious bass power. i haven't heard it with the boomslang but i'm certainly content for now, the sound from the pico/pb1 is fabulous. (if i go balanced however i will pickup a boomslang )


----------



## airwax

Anybody tried the pb1 with the SM3? I'll probably getting one next week. Hope I'm in the right track.


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





airwax said:


> Anybody tried the pb1 with the SM3? I'll probably getting one next week. Hope I'm in the right track.


 

 Why? The SM3s don't need that much power to sound good.... the amp is great but i's made to drive higher power demanding phones....


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





young spade said:


> Why? The SM3s don't need that much power to sound good.... the amp is great but i's made to drive higher power demanding phones....


 
   
  While the PB1 can drive even very demanding phones quite well, it still sounds superb with my balanced ES3X, which are about as sensitive as anything currently on the market.    Dynamics and headroom will be far superior to driving the SM3's directly from a low-powered DAP.   Balanced SM3's should sound excellent.


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> While the PB1 can drive even very demanding phones quite well, it still sounds superb with my balanced ES3X, which are about as sensitive as anything currently on the market.    Dynamics and headroom will be far superior to driving the SM3's directly from a low-powered DAP.   Balanced SM3's should sound excellent.


 
  Good to hear, I wasn't saying that it wouldn't be a good idea... well yea I guess I did.
  Sorry
  What I meant to ask was, why get the PB1 over another amp? I was trying to ask why get the most powerful portable amp out right now when you don't need to?
  ^That's what I was asking 
  
  I mean I had the amp and powered my K702s with it and loved the sound, it really is an amazing amp. Just wondering why the power is needed.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





young spade said:


> Good to hear, I wasn't saying that it wouldn't be a good idea... well yea I guess I did.
> Sorry
> What I meant to ask was, why get the PB1 over another amp? I was trying to ask why get the most powerful portable amp out right now when you don't need to?
> ^That's what I was asking
> ...


 

 Power is only one of the attributes of the Toucan...The imaging, soundstage, and most of all, the tonal accuracy make this a very special amp. 
   
  It is rare when so many things come together just right in an amp, much less one that is priced as modestly as is the Toucan.


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Power is only one of the attributes of the Toucan...The imaging, soundstage, and most of all, the tonal accuracy make this a very special amp.
> 
> It is rare when so many things come together just right in an amp, much less one that is priced as modestly as is the Toucan.


 
  How does it compare to other portable amps in that price range?


----------



## Xan7hos

Guys I'm having trouble opening up the Hirose plug, cannot someone explain to me how I'm suppose to get to the pins? (headphone cable retermination)


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Plug it into the PB1 or DB1 to hold the center stationary and then unscrew from the back.  Make sure that piece and the rubber piece are over your wire before soldering and then just plug it back into the amp and screw the back on again.


----------



## kyle-harris

i have the d10


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Quote: 





kyle-harris said:


> i have the d10


 

 I like potatoes.


----------



## hvu

lol


----------



## airwax

@youngspade, I asked the question simply because I have both the SM3 and the HD600. The Toucan was supposed to be for the HD600, but considering that it can power both the SE and balanced output simultaneously, I can have the HD600 balanced and the SM3 on one amp at the same time. Also, I planned not to get another amp for both. Another thing is that the SM3s are so revealing that I could hear how my laptop HO suck. I'm actually using an FiiO e5 to drive the SM3s so as to get a cleaner output.Thankfully the HD600 is a little more forgiving when it comes to bad sources.
   
  If what HiFlight said is true, then how awesome would the SM3 be considering how great the imaging and soundstage on them already.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  @hiflight, how about the SM3 in single ended output on the Toucan? Don't really have any plans of recabling them. Thanks.


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





airwax said:


> @youngspade, I asked the question simply because I have both the SM3 and the HD600. The Toucan was supposed to be for the HD600, but considering that it can power both the SE and balanced output simultaneously, I can have the HD600 balanced and the SM3 on one amp at the same time. Also, I planned not to get another amp for both. Another thing is that the SM3s are so revealing that I could hear how my laptop HO suck. I'm actually using an FiiO e5 to drive the SM3s so as to get a cleaner output.Thankfully the HD600 is a little more forgiving when it comes to bad sources.
> 
> If what HiFlight said is true, then how awesome would the SM3 be considering how great the imaging and soundstage on them already.
> 
> ...


 

 1. I know how it sounds. I had it and sold it.
   
  2. I wan't saying anything bad about the amp, I know how it sounds and I've read up on it extensively, I was just asking, why would you get the most powerful amp with some of the most sensitive IEMs. I wasn't saying you shouldn't, I was just asking why. If you stated you had the HDs earlier then we wouldn't have to have all of these extra posts that are slightly off topic.
   
  3. SE output from the Toucan is great, that's what I used to power my K702s. It's only using half of the total power from what I remember (12.6 volts?) but it sounds good. People say that when using balanced though, you get a clear increase in SQ over SE. I'd suggest getting some balanced cables for your Senn HDs if you have the spare cash.


----------



## muddyglass

Quote: 





young spade said:


> 1. I know how it sounds. I had it and sold it.
> 
> 2. I wan't saying anything bad about the amp, I know how it sounds and I've read up on it extensively, I was just asking, why would you get the most powerful amp with some of the most sensitive IEMs. I wasn't saying you shouldn't, I was just asking why. If you stated you had the HDs earlier then we wouldn't have to have all of these extra posts that are slightly off topic.
> 
> 3. SE output from the Toucan is great, that's what I used to power my K702s. It's only using half of the total power from what I remember (12.6 volts?) but it sounds good. People say that when using balanced though, you get a clear increase in SQ over SE. I'd suggest getting some balanced cables for your Senn HDs if you have the spare cash.


 
   
  how was the bass on the k702 through the toucan single ended?


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





young spade said:


> 1. I know how it sounds. I had it and sold it.
> 
> 2. I wan't saying anything bad about the amp, I know how it sounds and I've read up on it extensively, I was just asking, why would you get the most powerful amp with some of the most sensitive IEMs. I wasn't saying you shouldn't, I was just asking why. If you stated you had the HDs earlier then we wouldn't have to have all of these extra posts that are slightly off topic.
> 
> 3. SE output from the Toucan is great, that's what I used to power my K702s. It's only using half of the total power from what I remember (12.6 volts?) but it sounds good. People say that when using balanced though, you get a clear increase in SQ over SE. I'd suggest getting some balanced cables for your Senn HDs if you have the spare cash.


 

 I understand, but I believe my question is still valid without mentioning the HD600. I'm getting cardas cables for the HD600, and get them balanced. Hope this thing works for me. This would possibly be my last purchase and my full-size and portable set-up would be complete.


----------



## muddyglass

Quote: 





airwax said:


> I understand, but I believe my question is still valid without mentioning the HD600. I'm getting cardas cables for the HD600, and get them balanced. Hope this thing works for me.* This would possibly be my last purchase and my full-size and portable set-up would be complete.*


 

 maybe you seriously believe that last sentence!!


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





muddyglass said:


> how was the bass on the k702 through the toucan single ended?


 

 Good; better than the bass on it powered by the ALO Rx. To be fair though, I didn't listen to the stock cable; I used a BLue-Dragon which gives some emphasis to the mids and lows along with cutting the mesh off the pads so it had a half and half HD/70# sound. I liked it.


----------



## airwax

I strongly believe in that. LOL. Or the search will never end. It's all about acceptance, enjoyment and satisfaction. I'm just hoping, crossing my fingers, that this will be my last.


----------



## muddyglass

Quote: 





young spade said:


> Good; better than the bass on it powered by the ALO Rx. To be fair though, I didn't listen to the stock cable; I used a BLue-Dragon which gives some emphasis to the mids and lows along with cutting the mesh off the pads so it had a half and half HD/70# sound. I liked it.


 

 thanks. i've been considering getting a k702 to complement the hd600 and it sounds like the k702 would probably be driven just fine by a toucan.


----------



## airwax

muddyglass, how do the Toucan sound with the HD600 and the TF10? I currently have both. TF10 with Enyo cable though.


----------



## muddyglass

Quote: 





airwax said:


> muddyglass, how do the Toucan sound with the HD600 and the TF10? I currently have both. TF10 with Enyo cable though.


 

 i haven't listened to a lot of gear nor am i familiar with all the audiophile terms. however, the clarity and imaging on the hd600 is amazing through the toucan. i'm coming from the ibasso d2+ and it just seems like *everything* improved. i'm really loving this sound, so much so that i've sold the d2+ and haven't looked back.
   
  i didn't notice any obvious smack-you-in-the-face improvements on the tf10 though. the improvements are probably subtle, at least to my untrained ears. note: i spend a lot more time listening through the hd600 than the tf10, so it's very possible that i'm not paying enough attention.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





airwax said:


> @youngspade, I asked the question simply because I have both the SM3 and the HD600. The Toucan was supposed to be for the HD600, but considering that it can power both the SE and balanced output simultaneously, I can have the HD600 balanced and the SM3 on one amp at the same time. Also, I planned not to get another amp for both. Another thing is that the SM3s are so revealing that I could hear how my laptop HO suck. I'm actually using an FiiO e5 to drive the SM3s so as to get a cleaner output.Thankfully the HD600 is a little more forgiving when it comes to bad sources.
> 
> If what HiFlight said is true, then how awesome would the SM3 be considering how great the imaging and soundstage on them already.
> 
> ...


 

 While the Toucan can power from both balanced and SE output simultaneously, the huge difference in sensitivity between your HD600 and SM3 will probably preclude you from having both in use at the same time.  At a power level commensurate with the 600's, you will likely be at a dangerously high volume on the SM3.  The SM3 should sound very good from the SE output.  I know that both my Freqshows and ES3X sound fine so I am assuming the SM3 will also, although I have not personally listened to them.


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> While the Toucan can power from both balanced and SE output simultaneously, the huge difference in sensitivity between your HD600 and SM3 will probably preclude you from having both in use at the same time.  At a power level commensurate with the 600's, you will likely be at a dangerously high volume on the SM3.  The SM3 should sound very good from the SE output.  I know that both my Freqshows and ES3X sound fine so I am assuming the SM3 will also, although I have not personally listened to them.


 

 I was worried about that too. Well at least I could use both on the same amp even not at the same time. Thanks.


----------



## Xan7hos

Guys, I'm driving the HE-5 with the PB1 balanced, and it is incredible: micro details are popping, even "undesirable" details such as musicians breaths, foot tappin, metronomes...all things that the recording has picked up. The bass IMO seems a tad rolled off, which is surprising given that Single Ended the bass has more extension and weight. I'm hoping burn in will help some (burn in for the HE-5 as well since I haven't touched them in a few months).
   
  Now the $220 question is the relatively extreme treble energy. Interestingly, when placed in high gain mode (+15db), the HE-5 sound the best to me around the 2-3 o clock range. Beyond this range an increase in gain results in a tremendous boost in treble energy - some may have sibilance issues. Anything beyond 4 o'clock that the amp does clip and the headphones distort. IMO the amp's laid back sound signature helps to tame the highs of the HE-5, yet I don't perceive any loss in details. Vocals seem a bit recessed, though burn in might improve this. Overall, I feel like this combination produces a very cohesive imaging, and I'm impressed. Definitely looking forward to how it sounds with more burn in


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





avu said:


> This is a question I had, and maybe no one here can answer, as you all seem to have either super nice desktop rigs, or all portables, but here goes:
> 
> Can anyone compare (or guess, but I'd like a real detailed A to B comparison) of the Toucan/Boomslang combo against a home amp + dac unit (either together or separates) of similar price?  Balanced or not?  Just wondering how this would stack up to something like the Audio-Gd Sparrow or Fun, to the Matrix-mini-i (balanced), the Audinst HUD-mx, Yulong D100, NuForce HDP, and so forth, all of which are the same price or cheaper, though obviously not as portable.


 

 cant comment with the toucan, as I ended my search by building a home dac/amp that was portable, but even with a serious battery pack I have in my portable (22v lifepo4) there is not quite the performance of my home rig. my home rigs sabre IV stage is a DIFF I/O class A mosfet driven D1 running at 100v (+/-50vdc) not really doable portable. but my home rig cost me roughly 2.5 times what it cost me to build the portable. now that being said, I would put my portable up against plenty of home gear without fear of being shamed, there just isnt really the space or power overhead to have a portable class A discrete output stage and regulator.


----------



## paulybatz

I think the price of the Toucan, if it were manufactured here in the US would cost double...and sounds like it cost more than that!


----------



## Young Spade

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> I think the price of the Toucan, if it were manufactured here in the US would cost double...and sounds like it cost more than that!


 

 Oh yea, the american products over here cost a lot more than they are "worth". IMO that's why the T51 is so great at such a low price. In comparison, the iPhone can be made for only ~180 bucks but how much does it cost unlocked? 600 right? Apple tax along with the fact that it was made here. Atrocious.


----------



## hvu

I am excited just placed my order for the PB1 can't wait to hook it up to my Buffalo II Dac. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I hope it sounds as good and musical as my D10 and as great as all the review.


----------



## paulybatz

Ok, after listening single ended while waiting for my retermed cable...I had a certain impression of the amp...now listening with my HD650 BALANCED...it is a profound difference, when I say profound, you hear everything in perfect balance, no pun intended.  Nothing is overdone, not too much bass, treble or mids...I honestly never thought I could hear music in this way.  The bass is tremendous, I mean the bass guitar is so perfectly presented that I can visually see the string vibrating and resonating, Im listening to a CD source feeding the TOUCAN John Scofiend "A Go Go" and feel like Im in the studio with these guys, not in the studio, but right in the center of the room with the band.  I also have to note how much I LOVE the HIROSE connectors, they are so easy and stress free to use...more detailed review and analysis to come after I've done some listening...but a little more the drums, the pop, snap of the snare...it drives the HD650s not only perfectly but effortlessly, meaning I have it on low gain setting and a nice listening level is slightly less than 10 o'clock...what is also nice about this amp is it is not only clear and analytical but it is not fatiguing to listen to...the music is so good that you want to just re-listen to all of your favorite artists to hear them like you never have before!!!!


----------



## jamato8

Jimmy Hendrix, "Live at Winterland", sounds like you are there. Pretty spectacular. The dynamics start and stop with the speed of light. It is nice to hear all the details, and like you say, with no fatigue.


----------



## HiFlight

There is only one big problem with the Toucan IMO:   It is a very tough act to follow!!
  Ron


----------



## warp08

I just hope Ray is hard at work putting the finishing touches on the SR71B. He'll have to work harder than ever to top this one, IMHO.  Looking forward to comparing them.


----------



## paulybatz

Lets please keep all content on the Toucan and Boomslang, props to RSA audio but not the topic here!


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Jimmy Hendrix, "Live at Winterland", sounds like you are there. Pretty spectacular. The dynamics start and stop with the speed of light. It is nice to hear all the details, and like you say, with no fatigue.


 
  You are so much more eloquent than I JAM!!!
  Yes, the shift of the music and notes is just perfect.

 The LISAIII for example (I have yet to do an A/B comparison in terms of sound), is a very fatiguing amp to listen to...very powerful and very analytical, I cannot listen for as long as I can or want to with the Toucan, if that makes sense.
  
  Now I have to go pick that album (CD) up!!!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> Lets please keep all content on the Toucan and Boomslang, props to RSA audio but not the topic here!


 

 Of course we have to allow for comparisons with competing products, otherwise this review thread would be mired in a meaningless vacuum.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Of course we have to allow for comparisons with competing products, otherwise this review thread would be mired in a meaningless vacuum.


 

 That is exactly what I meant.  Right now the P1 stands alone in the marketplace with the closest competitor being the Protector.  That will not be the case forever.  The value proposition it represents is amazing.
   
  I'm still burning my P1/DB1 in from my iPad and a TWagged HD800 using a balanced XLR to Hirose adapter.  Should be well over 250 hours now.  I'm stunned how well the P1 can drive the HD800s even at 6dB gain.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Sadly I suspect the SR71B is going to be as expensive as the PB1 & DB1 together... I hope my friend gets one, or my wallet is going to hate me.  Accursed curiosity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> That is exactly what I meant.  Right now the P1 stands alone in the marketplace with the closest competitor being the Protector.  That will not be the case forever.  The value proposition it represents is amazing.
> ......................................................................................snip.......................................................................................................


 
   
  I can assure you that iBasso will not be resting on their laurels!   More good things are upcoming!


----------



## paulybatz

It does drive my HD650s effortlessly at low gain settings too!
  And it IS a tiny little thing, with HUGE sound!


----------



## hvu

Only a few more hours before I get my PB1, I can't believe it only took on day for delivery from China.


----------



## hvu

Can anyone confirm that I am reading the diagram from the iBasso correctly?


----------



## hvu

I am trying to soldier some wire to the HR10A-7P-6P but I am having a hard time taking the connector apart or is there some special way to soldier wire without direct contact to the pin inside the connector?


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Plug onto female socket (there are 2 on the PB1 and 1 on the DB1) and unscrew from the back.  The pin numbers are labeled on the plastic as well.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





hvu said:


> Can anyone confirm that I am reading the diagram from the iBasso correctly?


 
  That is right. Also, each pin has a number beside it (use a magnifier). You need to plug in the socket to a female while soldering or the pins will float, due to the plastic getting hot. You need a hot iron to do the soldering quick with as little heat staying on the pin as possible. Hot and fast. I have a temperature controlled soldering station and turn it up. The soldering is done in a second with most of the heat just hitting the end of the pin.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> That is right. Also, each pin has a number beside it (use a magnifier). You need to plug in the socket to a female while soldering or the pins will float, due to the plastic getting hot. You need a hot iron to do the soldering quick with as little heat staying on the pin as possible. Hot and fast. I have a temperature controlled soldering station and turn it up. The soldering is done in a second with most of the heat just hitting the end of the pin.


 
   
  I believe that diagram is incorrect, as you are looking at it from the front.  From the rear, the numbers increase clockwise from 1 to 6.   When you look at the connector from the front, your number 1 & 6 should be reversed.


----------



## hvu

Yea, I got the pin layout straighten out now I didn't know the diagram on the iBasso site was of the backside of the connector I thought it was the front.
  Plus, once you guys let me know there was a number layout on the inside of the connector everything just clicked.
  Thank you BebopMcJiggy, Jamato and HiFlight


----------



## hifimiami

Toucan PB1 impressions:
   
  I'm very dissatisfied with my PB1, I burned the unit for 200 hrs (Isotek) and evaluated using the line out from an ALO/Sony D25s using Shure SRH840 and Sennheiser HD595 in a SE configuration. The gain switch at factory setting (max) the overall SQ is very metallic and has an exaggerated treble, narrow sound stage and poor instrument separation.
   
  Using the same cables, sources and music I compared it to my other portable the Neco Soundlabs V.2 and the difference in SQ is remarkable. With the NecoV.2 the sound quality is neutral, bass is very deep and the sound stage wide open with pinpoint instrument separation.
   
  Perhaps the PB1 was designed primarily for balanced operation.
   
  I now own a $229 Chinese paper weight, it is unfortunate that most of us are unable to audition the majority of the components on Headfi.org and have to rely on evaluations and impressions from others.


----------



## wuwhere

iBasso's return policy:
   
*[size=x-small]Return Policy
 Our products have a 1-year warranty and a 14-day, no-questions asked return policy of the full product price when purchased through our website. Please note that shipping costs are non-refundable. If you are in need of a product return, please e-mail us for the product return form.[/size]*
   
  Perhaps you can return it for a refund? Unless you are beyond the 14-day limit.
   
  Quote: 





hifimiami said:


> Toucan PB1 impressions:
> 
> I'm very dissatisfied with my PB1, I burned the unit for 200 hrs (Isotek) and evaluated using the line out from an ALO/Sony D25s using Shure SRH840 and Sennheiser HD595 in a SE configuration. The gain switch at factory setting (max) the overall SQ is very metallic and has an exaggerated treble, narrow sound stage and poor instrument separation.
> 
> ...


----------



## paulybatz

I would suggest returning it...however, I found it to be very fine sounding in SE mode...however in balanced mode the sound is just simply profound.  Balanced is where its at...never thought the music could sound so good, not to say it doesnt sound good single-ended because IMHO it does...it is all very subjective
  
  Quote: 





hifimiami said:


> Toucan PB1 impressions:
> 
> I'm very dissatisfied with my PB1, I burned the unit for 200 hrs (Isotek) and evaluated using the line out from an ALO/Sony D25s using Shure SRH840 and Sennheiser HD595 in a SE configuration. The gain switch at factory setting (max) the overall SQ is very metallic and has an exaggerated treble, narrow sound stage and poor instrument separation.
> 
> ...


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

I recently obtained the Yuin Pk1s, which are high impedance earbuds. They are 150 Ohms, and a headphone amp is highly recommended by the manufacturer and everybody who has heard them. I have a Nationite S:Flo2 and a Sansa Fuze, and the S:Flo2 drives the PK1s pretty well, but there is definitely a lot more potential in them. My question is, how well would this amp drive them compared to amps such as the ALO RX, Headstage Arrow, or some RSA amp? Also, because it is balanced, how would I recable the Pk1s or where could I get someone to recable them for me? Thanks in advance!


----------



## hifimiami

Toucan Impressions Follow up   
  I discovered that with low impedance headphones lowering the gain to 0, SE corrected the brightness and metallic sound experienced previously. The gain control acts as an equalizer using the SE connection with low impedance cans.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

I thought that high gain was a bit much for the headphones you had listed but I figured there was just something about the sound signature that rubbed you the wrong way. So what do you think of it now without the reported bright metallic sound?


----------



## hifimiami

Much better overall SQ, but still prefer the Neco Soundlabs V.2 which to me provides  accurate performance in tonal balance and sound stage. The V.2 is like a V8 vs a 4 cylinder for the Ibasso PB1.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Fair enough, no comment on the tonal balance, but I feel the sound stage improves when using the balanced output.  Regardless my friend is getting the portable Neco unit apparently so I suppose I can compare them myself before too much longer.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> I recently obtained the Yuin Pk1s, which are high impedance earbuds. They are 150 Ohms, and a headphone amp is highly recommended by the manufacturer and everybody who has heard them. I have a Nationite S:Flo2 and a Sansa Fuze, and the S:Flo2 drives the PK1s pretty well, but there is definitely a lot more potential in them. My question is, how well would this amp drive them compared to amps such as the ALO RX, Headstage Arrow, or some RSA amp? Also, because it is balanced, how would I recable the Pk1s or where could I get someone to recable them for me? Thanks in advance!


 

 Currently I have the OK1 and in single ended mode the Toucan drives it marevelously. I do not know if the PK1 has 4 individual wires at the 1/8" mini plug, I think so because Ron (HiFlight) has re-terminated an OK2 if memory serves me right. You may wish to send HiFlight a PM to confirm this issue. If it has the 4 individual wires you will need a hirose adapter which you can get from iBasso or from Digi-Key. I am including a pic below, btw the funny looking u-shape item is an optical cable to connect the iRiver H120/H140 to the Boomslang.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> I recently obtained the Yuin Pk1s, which are high impedance earbuds. They are 150 Ohms, and a headphone amp is highly recommended by the manufacturer and everybody who has heard them. I have a Nationite S:Flo2 and a Sansa Fuze, and the S:Flo2 drives the PK1s pretty well, but there is definitely a lot more potential in them. My question is, how well would this amp drive them compared to amps such as the ALO RX, Headstage Arrow, or some RSA amp? Also, because it is balanced, how would I recable the Pk1s or where could I get someone to recable them for me? Thanks in advance!


 

 Craig Sanborn at Whiplash audio may be able to help you.  I recall he mentioned a few weeks back that he had recabled a PK1 and was evaluating it in his lab.  I don't know any more, because I had no interest in them, nor have I auditioned them before.  I have a number of of RSA amps and owned an ALO RX, but not the Arrow.  Until the SR71B is released by Ray, the power output of the PB1 is pretty much unmatched in balanced mode, and outperforms most in single-ended mode.  But headroom alone is not the issue, nor is it impedance of the cans/IEMs.  What you need to look at is sensitivity when you do systems matching in a portable form factor, especially.


----------



## kostalex

Stock PK1 is 4-wired.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Currently I have the OK1 and in single ended mode the Toucan drives it marevelously. I do not know if the PK1 has 4 individual wires at the 1/8" mini plug, I think so because Ron (HiFlight) has re-terminated an OK2 if memory serves me right. You may wish to send HiFlight a PM to confirm this issue. If it has the 4 individual wires you will need a hirose adapter which you can get from iBasso or from Digi-Key. I am including a pic below, btw the funny looking u-shape item is an optical cable to connect the iRiver H120/H140 to the Boomslang.


 




  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> I recently obtained the Yuin Pk1s, which are high impedance earbuds. They are 150 Ohms, and a headphone amp is highly recommended by the manufacturer and everybody who has heard them. I have a Nationite S:Flo2 and a Sansa Fuze, and the S:Flo2 drives the PK1s pretty well, but there is definitely a lot more potential in them. My question is, how well would this amp drive them compared to amps such as the ALO RX, Headstage Arrow, or some RSA amp? Also, because it is balanced, how would I recable the Pk1s or where could I get someone to recable them for me? Thanks in advance!


 
  My balanced OK2 sounds excellent with the PB1/DB1 combo, and yes, the PK1 has 4 leads so is very easy to reterminate for balanced operation.  That said, my PK1 (which has not been reterminated) sounds superb when driven from the SE output of the Toucan.   Good enough that I probably won't bother reterminating them at this time.   I need the volume set at about 10:00 position for my listening preference with the Toucan gain set at the +6 (Low gain)


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for the info, everybody. I am getting an Iriver H120, and while I will probably not buy the Boomslang anytime soon, it becomes an option. I am however interested in the Toucan, as it is not a crazy amount of money (the Boomslang would have to go on top of that purchase). If I get the Toucan, I will definitely run the PK1s SE. No use rushing things, and I will probably be blown away by them SE. Than later I could upgrade to balanced. However, I use them straight out of the computer, so I would need an adapter too. Also, one the cans I would like to get in the future is the Ultrasone Pro 900, which will probably work very well with this amp, although you can correct me if I am mistaken. If I did decide to get the Boomslang, where would I get that optical out in the picture? Thanks for the help, everybody.


----------



## HiFlight

If you are using your PK1's directly from your computer now, you would need an external DAC to use the USB output instead of the headphone jack (thereby bypassing your computer soundcard).  Most headphone jacks output quite poor quality sound, and it would not be the best choice to use as an input to the Toucan.   If you do not have plans to balance your phones, perhaps the D10 or soon to be released D12 would be a better choice, at least for now.  The optical shown connects the iRiver to the Boomslang.  The iRiver H120 uses the line-out jack for optical, although it must first be enabled via menu selection. 
   
  iRiver > Boomslang > Toucan > PK1 (SE) sounds superb!
   

  
  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Thanks for the info, everybody. I am getting an Iriver H120, and while I will probably not buy the Boomslang anytime soon, it becomes an option. I am however interested in the Toucan, as it is not a crazy amount of money (the Boomslang would have to go on top of that purchase). If I get the Toucan, I will definitely run the PK1s SE. No use rushing things, and I will probably be blown away by them SE. Than later I could upgrade to balanced. However, I use them straight out of the computer, so I would need an adapter too. Also, one the cans I would like to get in the future is the Ultrasone Pro 900, which will probably work very well with this amp, although you can correct me if I am mistaken. If I did decide to get the Boomslang, where would I get that optical out in the picture? Thanks for the help, everybody.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

I am using the PK1s with my S:Flo2 right now, which sounds a lot better than the computer. I know the computer HP jack is terrible, I just use it for casual stuff. I may get the Toucan soon if I can sell these speakers and a receiver I bought but do not use.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Has anybody tried this amp with the Ultrasone Pro 900s? I would be interested in all variations- stock, Kees modded and balanced.


----------



## paulybatz

My ultrasones are not balanced but I have done extensive listening with my 2500s single ended all ultrasones are very easy to drive...sounds great from the Toucan


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for the info! I am trying to get the Pro 900s from a guy on Craigslist, and they are kind of my dream headphone. He has not modded them, so if I get them, I get the fun of that.


----------



## jamato8

Ultrasones are easy to drive. I have the Ultrasone Ed. 9 and balanced them. They sound great SE or balanced from the Toucan and Boomsland. The Pro 750's also sound good but they are SE only but easily driven.


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Ultrasones are easy to drive. I have the Ultrasone Ed. 9 and balanced them. They sound great SE or balanced from the Toucan and Boomsland. The Pro 750's also sound good but they are SE only but easily driven.


 


  Jam, hope all is well buddy...you were right, this setup is absolutely fantastic, well worth the wait.  Going to A/B it with my LISAIII soon, I think in balanced mode it will outshine the LISA...I love the LISA but its a little fatiguing to listen to over extended periods.


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Can anyone who has had both the PB1 & Protector tell me how much bigger the PB1 is in comparison out of curiosity as i can not find the dimensions for the Protector to compare or even any pics of them side by side. 
   
  Sitting on fence currently as i had got my TWag overmolded cable terminated with the Protector plug as at time i was going to get that but circumstances meant i did not get the Protector as soon as first thought and now the PB1 has arrived since into our lives with a comparable SQ to the Protector for a lot less bucks. 
   
  So with been in UK want to be sure before i send the Twag all the way back to Craig in NY to reterminate to a Hirose connector.
   
  p.s. Is there anyone out there out there by any chance (one in a million) that has got a HP Envy laptop with the Beats sound system built in as the headphone out sounds pretty good now by laptop standards with the Beats system and am now wandering if it would be worth buying the Boomslang with the PB1 for use with the laptop as i probably would not use the Dac with any other source if i purchased it.


----------



## Xan7hos

You could always pick up a soldering iron and reterminate it yourself if shipping and actual retermination fees are an issue. the Hirose plug isn't that tricky IMO.


----------



## Xan7hos

Quote: 





hifimiami said:


> Toucan PB1 impressions:
> 
> *I'm very dissatisfied with my PB1*, I burned the unit for 200 hrs (Isotek) and evaluated using the line out from an ALO/Sony D25s using Shure SRH840 and Sennheiser HD595 *in a SE configuration*. The gain switch at factory setting (max) the overall SQ is very metallic and has an exaggerated treble, narrow sound stage and poor instrument separation.
> 
> ...


 

 PB1 = Portable Balanced, so you are indeed correct.
   
  IMO I have no issues whatsoever with SE, it adds some weight to the low end of my Grados, while I don't find them as fatiguing compared to ampless. I know this post is almost a month old, but you guys should experiment with the gain switch. I find that no gain works well with most of my headphones (32-60ohms ...excluding the HE-5)


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

He has already retracted the majority of his negative comments stating that his amp being set to high gain (which is definitely overkill for the SRH840 and HD595) was the cause of the weird metallic sound.
   
  Also be careful re-terminating twag cables if you choose to do it yourself... whatever material coats the silver has a relatively low melting temperature so solder quickly.


----------



## hvu

Quote: 





fortisflyer75 said:


> Can anyone who has had both the PB1 & Protector tell me how much bigger the PB1 is in comparison out of curiosity as i can not find the dimensions for the Protector to compare or even any pics of them side by side.
> 
> Sitting on fence currently as i had got my TWag overmolded cable terminated with the Protector plug as at time i was going to get that but circumstances meant i did not get the Protector as soon as first thought and now the PB1 has arrived since into our lives with a comparable SQ to the Protector for a lot less bucks.
> 
> ...


 


  I hope this helps


----------



## wolfen68

[size=x-small][size=x-small]Have been listening to my recently received Toucan/Boomslang combination. Unfortunately, I have not reterminated any headphones to balanced yet, so all listening was done single ended with a set of HF-2's.[/size][/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Smaller than I thought, I wonder if I can fit the DB-1/PB-1/H160 in a portable case in lieu of using a D12/H160 rig. The tough part is the interconnect and optical cables that jut out on opposite sides. It will take some clever case combinations to make it work....[/size][/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Overall the Toucan sounds very good, reminiscient of my stock D10 with a nice open sound. As compared to the D12, it is slightly thin sounding and does not have the little extra bass punch and fullness that the D12 offers. With that said, the difference between the Toucan and D12 is not great, which is a compliment to the SE performance of the Toucan.[/size][/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]While both ibasso units sound good, a switch to my SR71 fed by an ibasso DAC makes both the ibassos sound like they have a smidge of glare to their sound. The SR71 still has that smooth organic sound that the ibasso units are not quite hitting. This quality difference is relatively small and only noticed (by me) when you take the time to go back and forth between amps. I was wondering if the new ibassos (D12/PB-1) would push me to selling my beloved SR71, but I don't see that yet. Too many different applications and components that never perfectly match to create the ultimate portable rig....resulting in me owning more stuff than I want (aargh!).[/size][/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Looking forward to some balanced RS-1 action...and hoping it lives up to and exceeds the Protector/RS-1 balanced combo I've already heard. [/size][/size]


----------



## warp08

How much burn-in did you do so far on the iBasso rig?  The glare you refer to effectively disappeared at around 150 hours of break-in time.  Although the PB1 sounds nice S/E, it is really designed for balanced operation as others have pointed out.  I do not own, nor have I auditioned the original SR71, so I cannot comment on that comparison.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> How much burn-in did you do so far on the iBasso rig?  The glare you refer to effectively disappeared at around 150 hours of break-in time.  Although the PB1 sounds nice S/E, it is really designed for balanced operation as others have pointed out.  I do not own, nor have I auditioned the original SR71, so I cannot comment on that comparison.


 


  The Toucan is green, and I agree that burn-in may help.
   
  I bought the Toucan/Boomslang exclusively to dabble in balanced...but it's hard to watch it sit there unused as I wait to reterminate headphones.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> How much burn-in did you do so far on the iBasso rig?  The glare you refer to effectively disappeared at around 150 hours of break-in time.  Although the PB1 sounds nice S/E, it is really designed for balanced operation as others have pointed out.  I do not own, nor have I auditioned the original SR71, so I cannot comment on that comparison.


 

 I found the same to be true...Initially, I thought the highs were a bit overly bright, but now after about 100 hours, the SQ is very nicely balanced from lows to highs while retaining excellent detail and tonality.  I am primarily using my Toucan with my balanced phones.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> The Toucan is green, and I agree that burn-in may help.
> 
> I bought the Toucan/Boomslang exclusively to dabble in balanced...but it's hard to watch it sit there unused as I wait to reterminate headphones.


 
  I mean, you don't really have to balance your headphones to burn it in...  Just hook up some crappy free IEMs and leave it by a computer or something, checking the battery status every so often?


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Quote: 





hvu said:


> I hope this helps


 

 Thank you for taking those photos HVU, helps a lot. 
  PB1 still relatively small then when term "portable" is used as the Protector is very small anyway.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> I mean, you don't really have to balance your headphones to burn it in...  Just hook up some crappy free IEMs and leave it by a computer or something, checking the battery status every so often?


 

 I've made the effort to burn in a lot of equipment over the years.  In this case....I'm just going to listen and enjoy.


----------



## mrarroyo

I spent about an hour listening to the iBasso Toucan/Boomslang combo fed via an optical cable from an iRiver H120. The UE TripleFi10 did not sound this good before even w/ a Lune cable. Now that Ron helped by re-terminating the Lune with a Hirose plug the sound is more open and the detail is  up a couple of notches. There is more air between the notes and it is much easier to pin point the instruments.


----------



## warp08

I agree with you, Miguel that the optical input is not as good as the SPDIF or the USB.  Since my recent--currently unresolved OSX driver stability issues of my M2Tech HiFace--I have switched to a Locus Design Polestar USB cable and started burning in today.  I also have a XLR3->Hirose TWag adapter so I could hook up my balanced cans such as my favorite Qualias.
   
  The Polestar cable needs about 150 hours additional burn-in, as recommended by the User "Manual" even though they did some pre-burn in in the factory.  The strangest thing was that they did not recommend hot-plugging the cable into any devices that's already powered on.  Never heard of that before but that's what they recommend.
   
  The sound is already amazing and even though the PB1's gain setting set to the lowest possible level, I can only go about 35% of attenuation, but the Qualias are super-sensitive cans.  Very impressed with the iBasso setup so far.
   
  Sorry about the iPhone pictures, I'm without a DSLR until next week


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

I don't think that's what he said about the optical input at all. While I do think the coax is better I personally feel the USB is the weakest input on the boomslang. Maybe the stock cable is not so great for me or the netbook I was using wasn't good enough, but I think all he really said was switching to balanced was an improvement.

 Regardless, nice setup heh.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> I don't think that's what he said about the optical input at all. While I do think the coax is better I personally feel the USB is the weakest input on the boomslang. Maybe the stock cable is not so great for me or the netbook I was using wasn't good enough, but I think all he really said was switching to balanced was an improvement.
> 
> Regardless, nice setup heh.


 
  Oh, I definitely agree that switching to the Hirose balanced output is the single biggest improvement you can make concerning the Toucan.  iBasso had confirmed this as I had several email exchanges with them.  If you notice in the specs they do not even mention the type of Opamp they use and it is, in fact, sanded off on the chipset.  But they did say that the amp performs best in balanced mode, which is why I went to the extra expense of having custom adapters made since virtually all my IEM and HP cables are TWag.  I did order the iBasso IC as well for comparison, which I think is made of TWcu, but I'm not positive on that.
   
  When the HiFace did not cause a kernel panic, I had great results in terms of sound quality from the SPDIF output myself.  Now I'm waiting for a new USB-A to B cable from Locus called the Axis, so I can use my Sonic Diverter that does not need custom drivers and then I can offer some more info between the two from my perspective/ears.  For now, the Polestar cable is still being burned in according to what Locus recommended, but I can't promise I won't hot-plug the cable ever.  That still baffles me, but it is not an inexpensive cable...although not the most expensive either they make.
   
  I've been working with Marco at M2Tech to troubleshoot the software issue and he has been very responsive.  Sent several crash dumps to him and his developer suspects some sort of low-level conflict between the HiFace driver and some other service that's running but they could not pinpoint the issue yet.
   
  Once everything comes together, I put together a little review, since I promised them.


----------



## paulybatz

I wanted to let everyone know that after A/Bing with the LISAIII, and yes the lisa is a SE amplifier...in my opinion in balanced mode the Toucan simply provides a much nicer sound...its not that the LISA is not good, she is awesome, as analytical as they come, perfect reproduction...but I cannot listen to the LISA for extended periods of time, its simply exhausting, fatiguing...the Toucan I can listen to for hours, which I do quite often (along with the boomslang at the office)...however for the A/B testing I did I used a single well CD source...IBASSO has hit a homerun with this...for the money, if you like to listen to music and have the time to spend listening to music (and I dont have that much time), it is a fantastic investment in your listening pleasure...I also really like the HD650s, I couldnt be happier with the synergy of these phones with the PB1 as well!


----------



## HiFlight

Pauly...
  There is no doubt that the Toucan really sings when using the balanced output.  Like a vocalist suddenly discovering that they have an extra set of lungs!
  Ron


----------



## wolfen68

You two should really stop gushing...as I don't have a set of balanced phones yet


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> I also really like the HD650s, I couldnt be happier with the synergy of these phones with the PB1 as well!


 

 The HD650s are great cans, no doubt.  But the HD600s are more revealing, more balanced and not as dark on the top end.  I spoke to Ray Samuels at the NC Can Fest in August when I bought his A-10 demo unit from him.  He has all kinds of Sennheiser headphones all the way to the HE90s and he uses the HD600s to tune his dynamic amps.  That is how I got into the HD600s since I also have one of his 2nd generation Apaches. So, unlike Ron, I'm stuck with the hefty XLR3s, but I don't mind.
   
  At any rate, different sound sig than the HD600 but they are awesome with the Toucan as well.  
   
  I agree also that the PB1/DB1 combo is going to be hard--if not impossible--to beat in terms of value for the dollar.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

That is a really nice setup, Warp. It is a great testament to the Ibasso's value that they are a fraction of the price of the Sony Qualia, but work with them very well. I do not know much about cables, but I am inclined to think there has to be some difference with better cables. My question is, how much of a difference is there between the stock Ibasso interconnect for the Boomslang/Toucan and the Twag one? How much more performance are you getting for three and a half times the price? This knowledge may come in handy if I decide to get a Boomslang later (right now I am just trying to get a Toucan). I am not knocking your choice of the interconnect at all, in fact I rather admire that you like to go to the peak of things equipment wise.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> That is a really nice setup, Warp. It is a great testament to the Ibasso's value that they are a fraction of the price of the Sony Qualia, but work with them very well. I do not know much about cables, but I am inclined to think there has to be some difference with better cables. My question is, how much of a difference is there between the stock Ibasso interconnect for the Boomslang/Toucan and the Twag one? How much more performance are you getting for three and a half times the price? This knowledge may come in handy if I decide to get a Boomslang later (right now I am just trying to get a Toucan). I am not knocking your choice of the interconnect at all, in fact I rather admire that you like to go to the peak of things equipment wise.


 
   
  Thanks, George.  My iBasso IC hasn't arrived yet, but it's on the way.  The retail price on the Whiplash Hirose ICl is $120 vs. $39 of the iBasso model, but the iBasso uses OCC, so I would expect it to be cheaper.  I will wrap my impressions of that into the review, as well as the Locus Design Polestar USB-B to USB-mini cable vs. my existing Virtue Audio USB cable, which I thought was good enough up until now.
   
  Yes, not even digital cables are alike when it comes to sound and that was my last bastion of skepticism.  This hobby is killing me financially, but I enjoy every moment of it.
   
  The Qualias are so revealing and detailed--the stock cable is horribly bad--that it's easy to hear every sliver of difference in how the sound spectrum is presented and a great revealer of an enormous, spherical headstage.  This is unique to them, no other cans can do this type of imaging.  So it's like the sonic equivalent of an MRI diagnostic scanner, in a way.
   
  I'm listening to my HD600s now, which require a lot more juice (this isn't the one for sale).  Drives them easily even at the lowest gain setting.  I'm having an XLR4 to Hirose adapter made also, so I can test this gear with the mighty AKG K1000s and my balanced R10s.  It should be cool.  It'll take me a 2-3 more weeks until I finish my tests on this thing.  But I don't see anyone going wrong with them, especially at this price.  It's a bargain for sure.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

I am looking forward to your review! Do you go to any meets? I am in New York and am probably going to be at the White Plains meet on November 20th. All of your setups look so amazing, I just want to hear them.


----------



## warp08

I may not make it to the Nov 20th one, but plan to be there--weather permitting--in January.  I'll certainly bring some stuff, because it will be great to see others to experience just how amazing these TWag cables and ICs sound paired to the gear I have.  Very difficult putting some of this stuff to words but I put my money where my mouth is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Besides the iBasso gear, I also plan to take an Antelope Zodiac+ DAC/amp and my newly acquired Sonic Diverter, which I haven't even heard yet, because the cables for that combo are still being made.  But once this is all together, I'll be set for a while...I hope


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Sounds great!


----------



## trentino

I'm really intrigued by the iBasso balanced system. It seems it sounds really nice used as desktop as well? Today I use HD650 with Nuforce HDP at home and like the sound of it, but am of course plannig for something better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  My idea is to buy a proper cable for the HD650 that fits the Toucan/Boomslang and of course get the Boom/Touc also. It's nice to be able to use the Toucan for portable use with an ipod also. Have anyone compared the Touc/Boom against the HDP?


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> I may not make it to the Nov 20th one, but plan to be there--weather permitting--in January.  I'll certainly bring some stuff, because it will be great to see others to experience just how amazing these TWag cables and ICs sound paired to the gear I have.  Very difficult putting some of this stuff to words but I put my money where my mouth is...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Off topic I know, but what do you think of your Zodiac+ so far if you do not mind my asking?


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> Off topic I know, but what do you think of your Zodiac+ so far if you do not mind my asking?


 

 It's awesome (although mine is only shipping this week).  I heard it first at Can Jam and then I have listened to Craig's own demo unit (he sells them) at the NC Can Fest a little bit more with this setup:
   

   
  On top of the Zodiac+ sits the Sonic Diverter connected thru that monster Locust Design Cynosure Reference USB cable I call "The Snake" because it's simply insanely big, but the sound was just too darn good to resist.  I'm not a fan of the Buda amps, but Craig likes them.  Either way, the Cynosure is simply beyond my reach, but I'm trying to get the lower tier Nucleus cable.  This is a pretty awesome demo gear, I presume that's why Craig uses it.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Yeah I was just wondering, I have one and quite like it.  I really question the use of the sonic diverter here though, besides as a means to show off your fancy usb cable that is thick enough to be used as a deadly weapon (and also the bnc -> rca cable).  Seeing as the sonic diverter re-clocks the spdif output and then the zodiac again re-clocks the input, (from usb or spdif,) unless you use a word clock.  In which case it still re-clocks the input, just to the external clock instead.  I actually have been having a hard time telling apart the spdif input and usb inputs so far.  Though I haven't really tried the optical input yet or even really compared the usb/coax that closely as I am still burning it in.
   
  Slightly more on topic, I have run the toucan off the balanced outputs for a laugh.  Really wasn't too bad, all things considered.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> Yeah I was just wondering, I have one and quite like it.  I really question the use of the sonic diverter here though, besides as a means to show off your fancy usb cable that is thick enough to be used as a deadly weapon (and also the bnc -> rca cable).  Seeing as the sonic diverter re-clocks the spdif output and then the zodiac again re-clocks the input, (from usb or spdif,) unless you use a word clock.  In which case it still re-clocks the input, just to the external clock instead.  I actually have been having a hard time telling apart the spdif input and usb inputs so far.  Though I haven't really tried the optical input yet or even really compared the usb/coax that closely as I am still burning it in.
> 
> Slightly more on topic, I have run the toucan off the balanced outputs for a laugh.  Really wasn't too bad, all things considered.


 
  No, that's not my cable, but that's how it was setup.  When I have my own set, I'll experiment with the different inputs, but the diverter does allow the 24/96 without a special driver out of the USB-port and then onto SPDIF.
   
  So, how much better was the Zodiac+=>PB1 balanced combo vs.. the DB1/PB1 balanced combo?


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

I realized that was Craig's setup I am just wondering about the need for the diverter in this case (the Zodiac+ accepts async 24/192 over usb with no drivers, and might potentially have better clocking than the diverter, seeing as Antelope's main products are professional clocks / distributors).  The main problem might be the lack of good USB B-mini cables available.  The Zodiac should work in the same capacity as the diverter, only with 2 rca coax outputs and 1 aes output and requiring external power.  Maybe it does sound best that way though, I haven't heard it through the diverter so who knows.
   
  It was quite a bit better to me but it would be hard to quantify right now, I'll try it some more and get back to you.  I had run it through the Toucan when I first got the Zodiac+ and the balanced outputs on the back had come set to be on the higher end of its gain range (there are little trim pots to adjust them from +4dBm to +22dBm).  It was so unbelievably loud and hadn't burned in at all yet, at the time I recall thinking the Zodiac+ was slightly strident but do not feel that way now at all.  I'll try some coax vs coax this time... I'm not entirely sure how meaningful my comparison of the usb implementations really was, when to me the Zodiac's usb is much more well thought out and implemented (and costly.)  I still think the Boomslang is a good value.
   
  Also, the construction of my interconnects for boomslang -> toucan and my 1 zodiac (or other balanced source) -> toucan cable are wildly different;  I'll see if I can do something about that but I am out of the little hirose connectors.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> I realized that was Craig's setup I am just wondering about the need for the diverter in this case (the Zodiac+ accepts async 24/192 over usb with no drivers, and might potentially have better clocking than the diverter, seeing as Antelope's main products are professional clocks / distributors).  The main problem might be the lack of good USB B-mini cables available.  The Zodiac should work in the same capacity as the diverter, only with 2 rca coax outputs and 1 aes output and requiring external power.  Maybe it does sound best that way though, I haven't heard it through the diverter so who knows.
> 
> It was quite a bit better to me but it would be hard to quantify right now, I'll try it some more and get back to you.  I had run it through the Toucan when I first got the Zodiac+ and the balanced outputs on the back had come set to be on the higher end of its gain range (there are little trim pots to adjust them from +4dBm to +22dBm).  It was so unbelievably loud and hadn't burned in at all yet, at the time I recall thinking the Zodiac+ was slightly strident but do not feel that way now at all.  I'll try some coax vs coax this time... I'm not entirely sure how meaningful my comparison of the usb implementations really was, when to me the Zodiac's usb is much more well thought out and implemented (and costly.)  I still think the Boomslang is a good value.
> 
> Also, the construction of my interconnects for boomslang -> toucan and my 1 zodiac (or other balanced source) -> toucan cable are wildly different;  I'll see if I can do something about that but I am out of the little hirose connectors.


 

 Cool, I get it now.  The Locust Design Polestar USB-B to USB-mini is the best cable they make that can be terminated into a B-mini connector, all their others are far too thick.  I'm curious now, so I will ping Craig to ask what his rationale was with this particular setup.


----------



## warp08

So, I kinda guessed why he set it up that way and Craig confirmed it.  The answer lies with the Sonic Diverter's unique ability to pass thru bit-perfect 24/96 files thru USB using nothing but USB bus power.  The Zodiac cannot do that by itself and it requires AC power anyway, which represents other challenges.
   
  To back to the original thread, once I have a decent USB-B to USB-A cable, I will be able to integrate the Sonic Diverter into the DB2 signal path.
   
  More info on the Diverter is here:  http://www.whiplashaudio.com/sonicweld-diverter-24-96-usb-to-sdpif-converter.html


----------



## paulybatz

More listening finally this AM...
   
  Anyone that has ever critiqued the HD650s likely has not used an amp that could power them properly...the TOUCAN and the HD650 were and are an arranged marriage, but perfect for one another too!  HD650s were made for a powerful yet refined amp and balanced is just what they were made for...the sound is simply amazing, the bass is not overbearing, the highs not too high and the mids are not lost...everything is in perfect proportion and one thing that really got me this AM was the bass on a vintage coltrane track (yes, I was paying attention to the bassist), the decay of the sound was just simply amazing, like I was right there in the studio, hearing him strum the bass...it was fantastic!


----------



## trentino

I agree paulybatz, I can't believe what the Toucan does to my HD600/650. And I haven't even heard it with the Boomslang, I listen to the Toucan with lossless fom my Ipod Classic..
  I guess the Boomslang will take the sound up even another notch. I will buy the Boomslang and sell my Nuforce HDP. I won't be needing it anymore.


----------



## FortisFlyer75

I  will be picking up my Toucan & Boomslang from my delivery address tomorrow and cannot wait to hear what they sound like with my Sony X Walkman and JH16Pros fully TWagged also for any one that may have that dap/ iem combo.  
   
  It's one thing to hear my X & 16pros through a good desktop amp such as my Naim Headlineamp with NAPSC power supply i have ,but an amp that is portable/smallish as well as been balanced will be intriguing given the accolades it is getting for how god the SQ is for the $ given it can drive full size cans effortlessly. 
   
  Will post my euphoria no doubt once i have a few hours first impressions under my belt even though obviously it will be some time before i hear the full potential from burn in with the Toucan.


----------



## paulybatz

Welcome to the club Trentino and FortisF...is just simply cannot be beat, considering it doesnt break the bank...much more bang for your buck...and its tiny footprint is deceiving for sure!
  I use my boomslang single ended, with my other amps too, just have a DIYr make you an interconnect!


----------



## 7swell

Quote: 





fortisflyer75 said:


> I  will be picking up my Toucan & Boomslang from my delivery address tomorrow and cannot wait to hear what they sound like with my Sony X Walkman and JH16Pros fully TWagged also for any one that may have that dap/ iem combo.
> 
> It's one thing to hear my X & 16pros through a good desktop amp such as my Naim Headlineamp with NAPSC power supply i have ,but an amp that is portable/smallish as well as been balanced will be intriguing given the accolades it is getting for how god the SQ is for the $ given it can drive full size cans effortlessly.
> 
> Will post my euphoria no doubt once i have a few hours first impressions under my belt even though obviously it will be some time before i hear the full potential from burn in with the Toucan.


 

 I am getting customs and I'm not sure if I'm ready to drop the dough on a balanced cable and the toucan instead of running them SE. Hoping your impressions will help me make a decision.


----------



## Jalo

Guys, I finally ordered a Boomslang after searching for a portable balance Dac unsucessfully.  I reread this thread (Toucan and Boomslang Balanced Review Thread--all 18 pages of it) and I cannot find a single review on the Boomslang.  Most of the comments are on the Toucan.  Can anyone help in giving some idea with regard to the Boomslang's ability and how good it is compare to other Dac?  Thanks.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Guys, I finally ordered a Boomslang after searching for a portable balance Dac unsucessfully.  I reread this thread (Toucan and Boomslang Balanced Review Thread--all 18 pages of it) and I cannot find a single review on the Boomslang.  Most of the comments are on the Toucan.  Can anyone help in giving some idea with regard to the Boomslang's ability and how good it is compare to other Dac?  Thanks.


 

 That's because it is the only one available at this point, so it is impossible to do a comparative review on it at this time except to say it's "nice."  Really nice, regardless of price.  My only disappointment with it--if you can call it that for what it costs--that the USB interface chipset limits the sampling rate to 16/44, even though the DAC chipset itself is 24/96 capable.  Still it pairs very well with the Toucan (no surprise there) and I even plan to use it with the SR71 thru a custom interconnect built by Whiplash Audio in transportable configuration.
   
  I found the sound remarkably neutral and detailed, again with the above limitations when used with my iTunes library playing lossless files.
   
  I'm sure the next version will play high-res content as well, I seem to recall somebody mentioning that earlier.  But I think it's very hard to go wrong with this combo or even just the DB2 itself for the price.  Balanced audio never came this cheap before.


----------



## Jalo

Warp08, thanks for chipping in.  Yes, I purchased the Boomslang to be use with my Solo and SR71B.  I called Ray yesterday and he said as soon as he is done getting the SR71b out the door he will be working on the balance DAC.  I have Moon audio to make me a Hirose to SR71B adaptor.  But whiplash stuff is very nice.  My connection from solo to Boomsang will be through spdif coax so I could go up to 24/96.  Thanks.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Warp08, thanks for chipping in.  Yes, I purchased the Boomslang to be use with my Solo and SR71B.  I called Ray yesterday and he said as soon as he is done getting the SR71b out the door he will be working on the balance DAC.  I have Moon audio to make me a Hirose to SR71B adaptor.  But whiplash stuff is very nice.  My connection from solo to Boomsang will be through spdif coax so I could go up to 24/96.  Thanks.


 

 I'm sure Drew will do a nice job for you; he did beautiful work on reterminating my HE60s.  FYI, regardless of the output sampling rate produced by the Solo transport, the Boomslang will downconvert it to 16/44.  That sad, the SPDIF input is the preferred one to use producing the best sound quality.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Good to see others have joined the Toucan club! I don't own one yet, but plan to get the PB2 when it comes out in a few months.
   
  @Warp08, I find I get the best sound from my M-audio SuperDAC 2496 when I run coaxial to it from my QLS QA350. I am looking forward to trying this combo with the PB2. I will have to get an adapter from Ibasso or somewhere else to go from the M-Audio's balanced 2X3 pin XLR to the hirose of the Ibasso.


----------



## Xan7hos

Thanks for the comments in regards to the Boomslang. Between that, the Matrix Mini-I and the Emotiva XDA-1 I'm thinking I'll opt for the XDA-1 as I was mainly looking for a budget friendly balanced DAC regardless of dimension


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Good to see others have joined the Toucan club! I don't own one yet, but plan to get the PB2 when it comes out in a few months.
> 
> @Warp08, I find I get the best sound from my M-audio SuperDAC 2496 when I run coaxial to it from my QLS QA350. I am looking forward to trying this combo with the PB2. I will have to get an adapter from Ibasso or somewhere else to go from the M-Audio's balanced 2X3 pin XLR to the hirose of the Ibasso.


 
  I'm not familiar with the M-Audio SuperDAC, but I blew my budget big time on an Antelope Audio Zodiac+ recently.  That and the Sonic Diverter is one heckuva combo for both computer-based and SACD source.  But that's a different league altogether and is not battery-powered either.
   
  I will hook it up to the RSA SR71B, because the Zodiac is a great DAC, but built-in headphone amp is single-ended only.  These darn interconnects are kiling me price-wise, but Whiplash does beautiful work on the dual-XLR3 to Hirose balanced connectors using the Cryo'd Cryo-Parts rhodium plated carbon fiber XLR bits, that are probably on par with the premium Furutech equivalents.  You can order them with any cable, doesn't have to be TWag and then it's cheaper.


----------



## novacav

hey guys, some interesting info. until today i've been using the toucan with a pico dac, which has sounded great. i just got the boomslang today, but am not getting my phones reterminated for a few days. anyways my point is, the pico sounds noticably better in single ended than the boomslang... to the point where i almost want to just stick with the pico. anyone have any comments about these two dacs/ how much of a difference it'll be once i'm hearing balanced?
   
  EDIT: it's also worth noting that with the pico i'm using a qables silvercab interconnect but with the boomslang i'm using the balanced copper interconnect from ibasso. that could be a large part of it as well
   
  EDIT 2: turns out there was something wrong with my usb connection! as it works now i'd say the two dacs sound very different, boomslang definitely seems more neutral and accurate, but i think the pico has slightly better highs as well as maybe being a bit more "fun." I'll post again once i listen more as well as compare a bit once i get my phones terminated for balanced.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





novacav said:


> hey guys, some interesting info. until today i've been using the toucan with a pico dac, which has sounded great. i just got the boomslang today, but am not getting my phones reterminated for a few days. anyways my point is, the pico sounds noticably better in single ended than the boomslang... to the point where i almost want to just stick with the pico. anyone have any comments about these two dacs/ how much of a difference it'll be once i'm hearing balanced?
> 
> EDIT: it's also worth noting that with the pico i'm using a qables silvercab interconnect but with the boomslang i'm using the balanced copper interconnect from ibasso. that could be a large part of it as well
> 
> EDIT 2: turns out there was something wrong with my usb connection! as it works now i'd say the two dacs sound very different, boomslang definitely seems more neutral and accurate, but i think the pico has slightly better highs as well as maybe being a bit more "fun." I'll post again once i listen more as well as compare a bit once i get my phones terminated for balanced.


 

 Just as a side comment to your impressions (and totally disregarding the design differences in the two DACs you mention), copper-based ICs, even the silver-plated coppers have a warmer overall sound signature than silver ones.  This is a general statement as I have not heard the Qables Silvercab IC, but I do have the iBasso Hirose IC as well as a corresponding TWag version from Whiplash.  Switching the two changes the sound signature of the iBasso PB1/DB2 combo in a noticeable fashion.  The iBasso has a more analog-like bass-rendering, but the TWag has more sparkle, detail and far better treble extension.  Pricewise, the iBasso interconnect is much cheaper.


----------



## novacav

Very interesting about the difference between the stock and the TWag Hirose interconnects, that description is basically exactly how I feel about the difference between the Pico and Boomslang right now so I guess it's fair to say that it's mostly the interconnect creating the difference. HOWEVER, to try and check this, I used a random cable I found that came with some Bose speaker in place of the Qables Silvercab, and the Pico still sounded a lot more detailed than the Boomslang! Is it possible that the Pico is simply that much more of a detailed/clean dac? I suppose it's possible that this Bose cable was silver as well but I would've have expected that.
   
  I want to try out the Whiplash TWag that you mentioned warp08, but then again if it's the dac itself making most of the difference then perhaps I ought to hold off and see how things sound balanced first.


----------



## paulybatz

I am just a fan of balanced, I know that I love the HD650s now and no longer need to search for a set of open cans!


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> I am just a fan of balanced, I know that I love the HD650s now and no longer need to search for a set of open cans!


 
  What you do need is the balanced TWag cable for the HD650s!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Wait. What? It costs more than the HD650 and almost double the Toucan?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *Takes back suggestion hurriedly*
  
  Warp08 did a review on the TWag cables for the HD600 and 650. He says it takes them closer to something much more revealing, and calls the Twagged 650 an "HD725." I really want to hear a TWagged HDxx, as I felt the HD6xxs were a little boring when I tried them. 
   
  Again, just a suggestion. I don't want to spend your money for you.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Here is the review: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503989/review-the-duel-of-the-x-es-the-whiplash-twag-reference-x-cables-for-sennheiser-hd650-hd800
   
  I am sure the HD650s sound really good out of the Toucan. That said, I thought you might find this interesting. 
   
  @Warp08,
   
  Maybe you can try out the Ibasso balanced cable and tell us what you think. You could compare it to your other Sennheiser cables. That would be very informative.


----------



## paulybatz

I think the ibasso cable is the sennheiser cable retermed with the hirose, which is what I had a DIYr do for me...think it is great...the TWAG is simply out of my range, Id rather manipulate amps than HP cables...though I highly suggest silver cable is definitely my preference for ICs


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Yeah, the TWag is insanely priced. For that money you could get a very good amp. Did you check out the review? it is interesting nonetheless. I am looking forward to the PB2.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Here is the review: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503989/review-the-duel-of-the-x-es-the-whiplash-twag-reference-x-cables-for-sennheiser-hd650-hd800
> 
> I am sure the HD650s sound really good out of the Toucan. That said, I thought you might find this interesting.
> 
> ...


 

 I will do that at the earliest opportunity, I haven't been feeling well these past weeks.  As far as the HD650s are concerned, I have sold them (as well as the HD800s) and kept only the HD600s.  They sound awesome balanced out of the PB1/DB1 combo, and I prefer them over the HD650s, which are too colored at the low end for me in this configuration (all TWag ICs).  I know that most people prefer the HD650s because the enhanced bass helps to compensate for source and IC deficiencies.  But recabled with TWag, they are extremely balanced, without lacking in any area of the audible spectrum.  I've been using them as a baseline reference cans ever since they've been fully burned in.


----------



## trentino

I agree warp08. Right now, listening to Baroness 'Wailing wintry wind' with PC>DB1>Balanced>PB1>Balanced HD600, I feel I could just stop looking at new gear for the rest of my life. It's actually the first time I feel this way.
  I know it won't last


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





trentino said:


> I agree warp08. Right now, listening to Baroness 'Wailing wintry wind' with PC>DB1>Balanced>PB1>Balanced HD600, I feel I could just stop looking at new gear for the rest of my life. It's actually the first time I feel this way.
> I know it won't last


 
  Maybe it will last! You can go on to a bigger and better hobby!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you want...
   
  Warp,
  Thanks for replying. It is interesting that you prefer the HD600. Keep us posted. Sorry to hear that you have been feeling bad. I got sick last week and for a few days it was bad. Eating lots of fruits and veggies and staying away from too many grains, dairy products, and sugars has worked for me.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Warp,
> Thanks for replying. It is interesting that you prefer the HD600. Keep us posted. Sorry to hear that you have been feeling bad. I got sick last week and for a few days it was bad. Eating lots of fruits and veggies and staying away from too many grains, dairy products, and sugars has worked for me.


 

 Thanks...wish it was that simple.  Good advice, nonetheless.


----------



## Jalo

A heafier forwarded an e-mail from Ibasso to me saying that the DB2 is in development and should be released in 2-3 months.  I am curious and hoping HiFlight and Jamato (yes, the usual suspects  ) can dig up the new spec. for us.


----------



## Vault101

The DB2 will have dual wm8740 dac sections. It will have balanced and unbalanced (3.5mm) outputs.
  
  Quote: 





jalo said:


> A heafier forwarded an e-mail from Ibasso to me saying that the DB2 is in development and should be released in 2-3 months.  I am curious and hoping HiFlight and Jamato (yes, the usual suspects  ) can dig up the new spec. for us.


----------



## Jalo

Thanks, Vault for the update.  So the difference between DB1 and DB2 is one Wm8740 vs dual WM8740, besides the additional outputs.  So what is the benefit of having dual dacs with the same quality dac chip as oppose to the single dac application?  I have asked this question before, but if anyone can chime in I would appreciate it.


----------



## novacav

yeah i'd love to know that too! i might get a pb2 but i bet it sounds fine with the db1, i'm wondering if the db2 is really necessary unless you have extra cash.


----------



## burgunder

I were hoping for WM8741, but then they can always add the TAS1020B for the USB 
   
   
  Quote: 





vault101 said:


> The DB2 will have dual wm8740 dac sections. It will have balanced and unbalanced (3.5mm) outputs.


----------



## madelinecudw

clou91 said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Paulybatz, did you get a chance to ask them how long it'll be till the dac is available? I'm very interested in getting the T/B set up and am anxiously awaiting impressions/reviews.






It is exactly what I need, It's comprehensive, Many thanks to your description!


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





burgunder said:


> I were hoping for WM8741, but then they can always add the TAS1020B for the USB
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 

 I was thinking about the same thing.  Since it is still under development, may be we should send them some suggestions, then we may have a chance to make them change their mind


----------



## paulybatz

The boomslang is awesome...see my earlier post too...all you need is to have a Hirose to mini IC made in order to have it feed a SE amp...I have it feed my P4 which is a great combo too!
  No need to wait to have a great DAC at a fantastic price.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Thanks, Vault for the update.  So the difference between DB1 and DB2 is one Wm8740 vs dual WM8740, besides the additional outputs.  So what is the benefit of having dual dacs with the same quality dac chip as oppose to the single dac application?  I have asked this question before, but if anyone can chime in I would appreciate it.


 


  better galvanic isolation between channels, lower crosstalk, about 6db more dynamic range


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> The boomslang is awesome...see my earlier post too...all you need is to have a Hirose to mini IC made in order to have it feed a SE amp...I have it feed my P4 which is a great combo too!
> No need to wait to have a great DAC at a fantastic price.


 

 I agree.  I have my Boomslang feeding my SR71b abd balanced out to my JH13/HD800/LCD2/ED8 all sounded very clean and very good.
  
  Quote:


qusp said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks.  Nice to know it has more dynamic range.


----------



## 0catstate1

I'm planning to get the Toucan and the iBasso balanced cable for the following setup:
   
  MacBook Pro 13" -> uDAC2 -> Toucan -> balanced cable -> HD 650
   
  Any comments / suggestions?  I'm new to this stuff!


----------



## debitsohn

does the macbook have optical out? you might want to look into selling the udac and getting the boomslang.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





0catstate1 said:


> I'm planning to get the Toucan and the iBasso balanced cable for the following setup:
> 
> MacBook Pro 13" -> uDAC2 -> Toucan -> balanced cable -> HD 650
> 
> Any comments / suggestions?  I'm new to this stuff!


 


  Your HD650 will have to be recabled.  You can get one from Whiplash Audio terminated in Hirose connector for the Toucan (balanced).  Why are you going with the uDAC2 instead of the DB1 Boomslang?  http://www.whiplashaudio.com/cables/whiplash-custom-cables/whiplash-custom-sennheiser-hd650-600-580-cable.html


----------



## HiFlight

$360 for the Whiplash, $39 for the iBasso....IMO, a no-brainer!!!!   Does anyone really think they are going to hear $321 difference between these cables????  The iBasso cables are not cheap imported DIY cables, but genuine Sennheiser HD650 cables.  How do I know?  I shipped them to iBasso.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> $360 for the Whiplash, $39 for the iBasso....IMO, a no-brainer!!!!   Does anyone really think they are going to hear $321 difference between these cables????  The iBasso cables are not cheap imported DIY cables, but genuine Sennheiser HD650 cables.  How do I know?  I shipped them to iBasso.


 

 Have you auditioned the Whiplash cable?  The phrase "genuine Sennheiser HD650 cable" doesn't carry a lot of weight with me since I'm well aware of the how restrictive it is on the stock HD6xx cans.  Mass-produced cables will always be cheaper than custom-made pro cables even discounting the difference in the cost of source materials.
   
  Anyway, the OP asked for options, so I provided one that I'm personally happy with and can recommend.  On a purely cost-driven basis, the iBasso cable is clearly a better choice.


----------



## debitsohn

Well I mean really is there $xxx difference between most things in this hobby? Some ppl don't think cables make a difference. Some do. Personally I think they do and to me, a cable can make a world of difference. Maybe just as much as a $xxx upgrade. 
To op. I'd get the boomslang and id find a cable inbetween $40-350. There are plenty of options.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I currently own 3 sets of Whiplash cables and have owned 2 sets of Sennheisers, both HD600 and HD650.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, Ron, my question was poorly phrased.  I should have asked, whether you have auditioned this particular Whiplash TWag Reference X cable, not just TWag in general.  I've found that on some headphones it makes a bigger difference than others.  The HD6xx cans are in the first group along with the Qualias, and in my opinion the difference is well worth the investment, but it may not be for others for a variety of reasons.
   
  @debitsohn is right; there are many choices to fit almost any preference and budget


----------



## saggett

Has anyone with the Boomslang DB1 and PB1 compared using the PB1 with the balanced input from the DB1 and using it with a single ended line in from another DAC? I'm interested in the difference having a balanced source makes when using a balanced amp.
  A blind test would be fantastic - you could get someone else to switch the DAC and write impressions of the two unknown sources before finding out which they are.
  I know I'm asking for a lot, but I am planning a similar experiment myself. When my PB1 arrives I'll try the same headphones (HD650s) with the same cable from the balanced out and the single ended out (adding an adaptor to use the single ended out) and write my blind impressions of each. I'm also planning to do a blind comparison of the stock HD650 cable and the Headphile Blacksilver cable (both used single ended with the PB1 amp).


----------



## HiFlight

I have listened to my PB2 about equally using my Boomslang balanced DAC output and the output from my desktop DAC.   I can hear very little difference that I can attribute to the balanced input vs SE.   Most of the differences are due, I think, to the differences in the DACs themselves.  
   
  There is more audible difference when using the SE output vs the balanced output than the differences between the inputs.


----------



## 0catstate1

Thanks for the feedback.  I already had the uDAC2, but will look into the Boomslang... I think it was out of my budget when I shopping for DACs.
  I ordered the balanced cables from iBasso along with the PB2 Pelican.  Waiting to receive these!  So now the proposed set up is:
   
  MacBook Pro 13" -> uDAC2 -> Pelican -> CB09 cable -> HD 650
   
  Now the question is how to connect the DAC to the amp.  Will a simple RCA output from the DAC to 3.5mm input to the amp do the trick?
  After that's sorted, I'll look into optical out from the MacBook Pro to feed into the DAC.


----------



## HiFlight

Yes, the RCA > 3.5 cable will work just fine.  I think you are going to be very pleased with your setup.  IMO, the sound rivals that of desktop rigs costing hundreds of dollars more. 
  
  Quote: 





0catstate1 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  I already had the uDAC2, but will look into the Boomslang... I think it was out of my budget when I shopping for DACs.
> I ordered the balanced cables from iBasso along with the PB2 Pelican.  Waiting to receive these!  So now the proposed set up is:
> 
> MacBook Pro 13" -> uDAC2 -> Pelican -> CB09 cable -> HD 650
> ...


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## Saintkeat

how much burn in is required for the amp to mature? and should i really bother investing in a balanced cable for custom iems?


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## HiFlight

I really don't think the SQ changes significantly with burn-in from what I have been able to hear with my iBasso amps, but I would highly recommend running your custom IEM's balanced.  IMO, it is not necessary to spend big bucks on a custom cable, rather re-terminating your stock cable with the Hirose connector should enable you to enjoy the benefits of running balanced.  You could always pick up a 2nd stock cable for when you want to use a SE output. 
   
  The benefits of balancing are most apparent in improved imaging and stability of the soundstage.   More expansive and dimensional would also be a good description.  These improvements can be heard easily from the stock cables, at least the stock cables used with high-quality custom IEM's.


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## wolfen68

Just as a side note, some stock cables will not allow conversion to balanced due to a shared ground conductor.  In those cases a custom cable may be the only (easy) option. 

 Quote:


hiflight said:


> IMO, it is not necessary to spend big bucks on a custom cable, rather re-terminating your stock cable with the Hirose connector should enable you to enjoy the benefits of running balanced.


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## 0catstate1

Just received the PB2 today, and my set up is sounding pretty good.
   
  MacBook Pro 13" -> (usb to) uDAC2 -> (Mogami Gold RCA to SE to) PB 2Pelican -> balanced CB09 cable -> HD 650
   
  The 650 veil is lifted, but I do hear more noise is the silent ranges (sorry, do not know the technical term).  I don't have pitch black silence. Maybe rolling some of the buffers and/or opamps would resolve this, but I have no knowledge on what the best combo would be.
   
  Also, is there an ideal volume ratio setting for MacBook to DAC to AMP?  I have the Mac volume maxed, DAC volume a little past 12 o'clock and then play around with the volume on the PB2 amp (usually past 12 too.)


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## HiFlight

I don't know of any  IEM's that use a shared ground anywhere but at the plug, at least none that I am familiar with.   Most headphones with single-sided cable entry need recabling, but dual entries are common at the plug and can easily be reterminated for correct balanced operation. 
  
  Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> Just as a side note, some stock cables will not allow conversion to balanced due to a shared ground conductor.  In those cases a custom cable may be the only (easy) option.
> 
> Quote:


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## wolfen68

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> I don't know of any  IEM's that use a shared ground anywhere but at the plug, at least none that I am familiar with.   Most headphones with single-sided cable entry need recabling, but dual entries are common at the plug and can easily be reterminated for correct balanced operation.


 

 For example, I've been told that the JH-13/JH-16 stock cable cannot be converted to balanced.


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## FortisFlyer75

Interesting last few post's......
   
  I found that the TWag cable with my JH16'si  out stripped the stock cable it came with and when i sent my TWag back to Whiplash to change to balanced connector for the PB1 & DB1 I was about to purchase I had to reluctantly  revert back to the stock cable during that time with my 16's for two weeks and was hard to enjoy as with the TWag cable and believe me i was glad to get the TWag cable back, was a long two weeks. 
   
  For me the TWag compared to the stock had more sense of space with improved sound staging, the stock felt more compressed, narrow and claustrophobic in this sense.  Further more the TWag really made the high end a lot more sharper with sparkle that is more apparent and the low end really is tightened up, cleaner and more controlled but yet maintains that visceral bass the 16's are capable of at the same time which really helps in hearing the detail to be had in the over all listening experience.
   
  Personally the whole system was only good as the weakest link in the chain, in this case the JH stock cable. 
   
  Maybe after spending circa 1.5K on the 16pros & the DB1 & PB1 another $275 was worth the extra investment/punt  to make it sing even further which thankfully it does. 
   
  As for the Toucan i have now with the Boomslang the JH16's are now in heaven, going balanced is really another level to SE in conjunction with having a cable that is good enough to act as a signal train for the information from source in this case not the stock cable JH provide.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





0catstate1 said:


> Just received the PB2 today, and my set up is sounding pretty good.
> 
> MacBook Pro 13" -> (usb to) uDAC2 -> (Mogami Gold RCA to SE to) PB 2Pelican -> balanced CB09 cable -> HD 650
> 
> ...


 

 With regard to the noise issue, there are three alternatives I may want to try (one at a time) to see if it will solve your noise issue.  First and probably a little bit simpler is to find a audiophile level CD and play it directly from the CD drive.  This is to make sure that the materials you use isn't the source of the noise.  Second, try switching the usb connection to optical connection as usb connection sometime is known to be more noisy than optical or coax.  The third alternative is to find or borrow a boomslang or a Desktop DAC that can output balance signal to the DB1 and see if the noise is reduced or improved.  One of the benefit of using balance is reducing cross talk and noise.  I like to know your outcome after you have tried the above.


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## warp08

Does the PB2 susceptible to the same "volume pot" noise issue when you adjust volume, like with the PB1?


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## HiFlight

With my current opamp configuration of (2) AD8599 in LR and HA5002 buffers, there is no volume pot noise at all. 
  
  Quote: 





warp08 said:


> Does the PB2 susceptible to the same "volume pot" noise issue when you adjust volume, like with the PB1?


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## warp08

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> With my current opamp configuration of (2) AD8599 in LR and HA5002 buffers, there is no volume pot noise at all.


 

 Thanks, Ron.  How do I order the amp with those particular opamps?  Sorry if it's been covered before.  The volume pot noise was my biggest (and really only) annoyance with the PB1.  Also looking forward to the DB2.


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## saggett

I was wondering whether you've been able to compare the single ended input from your Pico DAC with balanced input from the DB1 into the toucan since getting your phones reterminated for balanced?
   
  I'd be really interested if yourself or anyone else has been able to evaluate what differences can be heard as a result of using a balanced input on the PB1 or PB2 as opposed to single ended input. The advantages of balanced vs single ended output on the amp are well documented but the difference having a balanced input makes is far less so.
   
  Quote: 





novacav said:


> hey guys, some interesting info. until today i've been using the toucan with a pico dac, which has sounded great. i just got the boomslang today, but am not getting my phones reterminated for a few days. anyways my point is, the pico sounds noticably better in single ended than the boomslang... to the point where i almost want to just stick with the pico. anyone have any comments about these two dacs/ how much of a difference it'll be once i'm hearing balanced?
> 
> EDIT: it's also worth noting that with the pico i'm using a qables silvercab interconnect but with the boomslang i'm using the balanced copper interconnect from ibasso. that could be a large part of it as well
> 
> EDIT 2: turns out there was something wrong with my usb connection! as it works now i'd say the two dacs sound very different, boomslang definitely seems more neutral and accurate, but i think the pico has slightly better highs as well as maybe being a bit more "fun." I'll post again once i listen more as well as compare a bit once i get my phones terminated for balanced.


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## imackler

If I wanted to use the ER4S single end and the HD600 balanced, would I need to adjust the gain setting every time I switched between the ER4S and the HD600?


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## BlackbeardBen

I don't know if anyone else has tried working the volume pot of the PB1 in by rapidly rotating it (clearing out the carbon dust that causes the noise), but I've been working it for a while.  The noise is down to manageable levels from the cacophony it was before.  I was actually on the verge of selling it - buying an E11 to see if that would satisfy me - when the noise levels finally got reasonable.  Now, it's just a very quiet, intermittent crackle as I turn that isn't always audible over the music - as opposed to the ruckus before that didn't even always stop when you stopped moving the pot.


  Quote: 





imackler said:


> If I wanted to use the ER4S single end and the HD600 balanced, would I need to adjust the gain setting every time I switched between the ER4S and the HD600?


 

 I'm not sure that you would need to - but it would depend on your particular sample's volume pot as well as your source's voltage.  The 3 dB lower level for the single ended connection works in your favor too, of course.  I've found that running the HD 600 balanced and MS-1i single ended at the same time has them pretty close in volume to each other - less than 3 dB difference.


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## Saintkeat

Mine doesn't have much of a noise issue. Its certainly bearable, though I must advise that my volume knob fell off while I was on a flight to Germany. ROFL!


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## BlackbeardBen

Well, the knob's just cosmetic - mine came loose too.  It's just a twist of an Allen wrench away from tightening back on.
   
  Perhaps the levels of noise I had were because I bought the PB1 used - I don't know what it was like new.  The first owner may have worn it down without working it to clean out the carbon dust.


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## paulybatz

Love this set still...balanced HD650 is still my favorite!!!


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## FortisFlyer75

Quote: 





blackbeardben said:


> I don't know if anyone else has tried working the volume pot of the PB1 in by rapidly rotating it (clearing out the _*carbon dust*_ that causes the noise), but I've been working it for a while.  The noise is down to manageable levels from the cacophony it was before.  I was actually on the verge of selling it - buying an E11 to see if that would satisfy me - when the noise levels finally got reasonable.  Now, it's just a very quiet, intermittent crackle as I turn that isn't always audible over the music - as opposed to the ruckus before that didn't even always stop when you stopped moving the pot.


 
   
  Did not know these worked like a F1 braking system with the "carbon dust"! ; )
   
  Running balanced with my JH16pros and a Sony X walkman.
   
  I tried this method and has seemed to of improved this issue so thank you BBBen as on my unit as if I did not catch the volume knob in just the right place it would have a background rustling noise that then become fatiguing  
   
  , I am not savy on the technical side of these amps but it sounds like something that will repeat itself over time with build up of "carbon dust" rather than just clearing up permanently. 
   
  Apart from the volume pot issue I am very pleased with the PB1 experience been my first portable amp : )


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## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





fortisflyer75 said:


> Did not know these worked like a F1 braking system with the "carbon dust"! ; )
> 
> Running balanced with my JH16pros and a Sony X walkman.
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah, the rustling sound was driving me nuts.
   
  You are right about it building up again, of course.  After a week or so of continuous use it's started to get louder again - so I just twist it side to side a few times any time I hear the noise get louder again.  There's no real permanent solution other than a better potentiometer, unfortunately.


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## HiFlight

Most usually this rustling sound is due to a small amount of offset voltage appearing on the volume pot.   Some opamps are worse than others with the worst of the noise happening when the amp is powered up.  It usually becomes much less after the amp has been on for awhile.  This is just a characteristic of certain opamps.   Dirt or carbon in the pot is rarely the cause of this artifact. 
  
  Quote: 





blackbeardben said:


> Yeah, the rustling sound was driving me nuts.
> 
> You are right about it building up again, of course.  After a week or so of continuous use it's started to get louder again - so I just twist it side to side a few times any time I hear the noise get louder again.  There's no real permanent solution other than a better potentiometer, unfortunately.


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