# The iBasso P3+ Herron has made its way to my door and there are images and more . . .



## jamato8

It is pretty impressive. Not at all broken in yet but the bass is already a noticeable quality with slam and definition. 

 The number of opamps and what buffer arrangement is unbelievable. You get a wrench for the faceplate, extra screws, bypass adapters, a grey/silver matt finished anodized body and a black matt finished one. The traces are gold plated and the battery compartment has all the kinks worked out. The rear round nuts for the rear plate have an inner bevel that makes them easy to thread (the bolts are in the body now and stay there to guide the rear plate into place. 

*You get a good Alps potentiometer, Dale resistors, the latest top of the line Nichicon caps bypassed with Wima caps, no DC blocking capacitors in the signal path and gain adjustment that works great for IEM's or for the harder to drive phones a high gain setting. *

 I got to tell you, the dynamics of this thing are awe inspiring. 

 Oh, and the owner's manual, though one page (front and back), has more information and shows the placement of the opamps and buffers.







 The Stack, iRiver H140 with a 120gb drive, iBasso Cobra and the P3+ Heron doing the amplification.


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## clasam

I hear my bank account crying. My wallet has already run away, trying to save its life.


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## wsatia

How different is it from the P3?


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## trueno84

Great... Hearing this from the Guru after my D2 is on it's way.... My bank account is drying up soon..... T_T But the green enclosure of D2 Boa is irresistible


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## gooky

Is the body the same material as the original P3? Because from the picture, it looks heftier, maybe a little higher quality? Not that there is anything wrong with the P3 in terms of durability, but the P3+ looks like it has a more brushed metallic texture. Pretty slick.


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## jamato8

The finish is different. It is an anodized matt finish rather than glossy. The edges of the front and back plate are slightly rounded and where you insert the 9 volt external power supply is nicely beveled. 

 The combinations with this amp are extreme. I mean you can have 3 channel or 4, you can have it with or without buffers and you get the buf634, transistor buffer and bypasses. You can use single and dual opamps and many different types. 

 Mine needs time to form the caps and just settle in, then I will be able to know more on the sound but it promises to be one of the best, IMO but time is needed.

 With all the opamps and buffers iBasso gives you with the amp it is like getting a tube amp with a bunch of tubes, which normally does not happen. I know of no one else that does this.


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## trueno84

Hmm do u reckon that it would be better than pico amp?


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## jamato8

I haven't heard the Pico so I wouldn't know. 

 Well I still need some more information than what the manual states. There is a G, ground (I understand) and V channel ?. Well and email to iBasso.


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## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wsatia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How different is it from the P3?_

 

My stock P3+ sounds better to me, richer and with deeper and wider soundstage than my P3 with Topkit installed. 

 It clearly has more output power. The soundstage and imaging are astounding. So far, it is my impression that the P3+ has raised the bar for portable amps.


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## jamato8

Mine went muddy already for a while and now back to speed again. It is one of, if not the fastest amps I have ever heard. The caps must have a low dissipation factor and low ESR with the "snap" I hear. There isn't any frequency muddling either, just clean. More hours needed but this is exciting. 

 So Ron, what is the V channel? I get the G for ground but then there is a V.

 On "The Dead Set" by the Grateful Dead, Jack Straw is excellent. 

 That's right, they also increased the quality of the attenuator. Everything else was stepped up in quality with the top latest Nichicon caps etc and some nice large resistors under the board. Hey R, I think what you did is pretty good.


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## HiFlight

Couldn't resist....Opened it up and tried (2)AD743JNs, AD8022, and OPA2727 in LR, Transistor buffers, and AD797 in Ground. All sounded good. Of course, this is a virgin amp, with few hours on it. Like nearly all other amps, the P3+ really shines with the AD743s. 

 With all the possible combinations in this amp, I can foresee myself tied to my bench, ignoring meals, pets, wife, personal grooming....etc,etc!!!

 I have not yet had a chance for head to head comparisons with my D10. That will be down the road somewhere after the P3+ accumulates more playtime. 

 X2 to Jamatos comments about the quality of both the exterior as well as the inside circuitry. Clearly very high quality of both. Even gold-plated battery contacts. It is obvious that much attention was given to even the smallest details of this amp.


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## h.rav

Any internal shots?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all the possible combinations in this amp, I can foresee myself tied to my bench, ignoring meals, pets, wife, personal grooming....etc,etc!!!_

 

Gahhh, not personal grooming. You gotta look cool doing this Ron! Respect man, reeeespect! 

 I have already compared some to the D10 as I have three stack with velcro going on with the iRiver H140 on top then the D10 with the dac out to the P3+ on the bottom. Who ever thought stacked separates could get so small with so much to offer? 

 Anyway, I hear a little less congestion with the P3+, not that I noticed any with my Black Gated D10 but the D3+ is something else. Time needed though, time.

 I will try and get some internal shots tomorrow but I was also impressed with the step up in internal quality. The spring system for the batteries and contacts all rock solid and gold plated.


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## ZoNtO

This sounds intriguing.... Wish it had a 75 ohm impedence switch!


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## wsatia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My stock P3+ sounds better to me, richer and with deeper and wider soundstage than my P3 with Topkit installed. 

 It clearly has more output power. The soundstage and imaging are astounding. So far, it is my impression that the P3+ has raised the bar for portable amps._

 

oh right thanks! keep us updated on whether it's a worth it upgrade if I already have the P3


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## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couldn't resist....Opened it up and tried (2)AD743JNs, AD8022, and OPA2727 in LR, Transistor buffers, and AD797 in Ground. All sounded good. Of course, this is a virgin amp, with few hours on it. Like nearly all other amps, the P3+ really shines with the AD743s. 

 With all the possible combinations in this amp, I can foresee myself tied to my bench, ignoring meals, pets, wife, personal grooming....etc,etc!!!

 I have not yet had a chance for head to head comparisons with my D10. That will be down the road somewhere after the P3+ accumulates more playtime. 

 X2 to Jamatos comments about the quality of both the exterior as well as the inside circuitry. Clearly very high quality of both. Even gold-plated battery contacts. It is obvious that much attention was given to even the smallest details of this amp._

 

Willing to try stack buffer?


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## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Willing to try stack buffer?_

 

I can maybe with the BUF634, but I think iBassos transistor buffers sound better than the 634. There are already 2 transistors on each adapter. It might be more worthwhile to put the BUF634 in Hi-C mode by adding a 220 ohm resistor across pins 1 and 4. 

 I think stacking might be a waste of time, considering the already great sound of this amp. More electronics in the signal path don't always result in improvement. 

 I really need to more fully understand the circuit of this amp before I try to do more than just roll the LR opamps.


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## jamato8

Oh, and the gain is more than I would ever need. In-other-words, the volume goes, way, way loud and to my ear, doesn't distort. I can not turn the amp all the way up, it is just too loud and may damage my phones.

 What I am hearing already are notes that don't tie up with each other. There is no congestion that I hear on loud or complex passages. On dynamic music it is like the clash of the Titans.


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## ryuzoh

In 3ch architecture,
 I recommend not to use dummies on both GND socket, and stick 1 single-OPAMP either 3/4 GND sockets, directly connecting each ground's 6-pin(output).
 The reason why is TLE2426 can provide 20mA only.......
 This is the best way to reduce DC output in P3+

 John, I'll send you additional my HZ 3300uF caps for modding.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ryuzoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In 3ch architecture,
 I recommend not to use dummies on both GND socket, and stick 1 single-OPAMP either 3/4 GND sockets, directly connecting each ground's 6-pin(output).
 The reason why is TLE2426 can provide 20mA only.......
 This is the best way to reduce DC output in P3+

 John, I'll send you additional my HZ 3300uF caps for modding._

 

Ok, but there is a G/V so is this a ground channel and a virtual ground channel? I am not sure how they work together or if you use one or the other, which would make sense. 

 So you are saying to use any single opamp in either the G or V?


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## ryuzoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but there is a G/V so is this a ground channel and a virtual ground channel? I am not sure how they work together or if you use one or the other, which would make sense. 
 So you are saying to use any single opamp in either the G or V?_

 

Affirmative, and connect wire from 6-pin to the other 6-pin.
 OK, just moment...
 I'll draw.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ryuzoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Affirmative, and connect wire from 6-pin to the other 6-pin.
 OK, just moment...
 I'll draw._

 

I understand but this isn't going to be something everyone wants to do.

 But how are V and G to be used if not used with the wire? What will be the difference in using just an opamp in V or an opamp in G? Or an opamp in both?


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## ryuzoh

I think V is better.
 Because feedback resistor is higher and compensation cap is attached.
 That can make OPAMP stable loading with capacitance.

 Difference between 3ch and 4ch is separation of GND.
 4ch is better for noise, but gives slightly DC to output.
 3ch is better for reducing DC and simple.


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## ryuzoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand but this isn't going to be something everyone wants to do._

 

Exactly...
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But how are V and G to be used if not used with the wire? What will be the difference in using just an opamp in V or an opamp in G? Or an opamp in both?_

 

If you stick different type on V and G, the voltage btwn V's output and G's output will get higher.
 So... for reducing DC, I think you had better stick same kind of OPAMPs onto V and G, or to use dual type.


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## jamato8

Ok, but do you find any difference with opamps in the virtual ground socket? 

 On pin 6 to 6, many people are not going to solder a wire from pin 6 to 6 as they don't solder so there should be, must be, a different way to do this.


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## ryuzoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On pin 6 to 6, many people are not going to solder a wire from pin 6 to 6 as they don't solder so there should be, must be, a different way to do this._

 

I'm realizing it.....but couldn't find other means to make higher current with 3ch architecture
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So.... same single-type or dual-type is recommendable.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but do you find any difference with opamps in the virtual ground socket?_

 

The 2426 side socket is V.
 You can see the resistor in yellow-purple-black-brown-brown.
 The color bars represent the resistor as 4.7k Ohm.


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## jamato8

Ok, but I mean do you find a difference in sound with different opamps in the V or G?


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## ryuzoh

Okay....
 The difference leads its expression of soundstage.
 IMO, properly powerful OPAMP improves details or presence in sound, like AD8397, LM6172, LMH6655, LMH6643, or BUF634 on both GND.
 As like Mr.HiFlight's recommendation.
 Because they can quickly support mid voltage and the caps.
 Expressing in atmosphere... or, finding distance.
 When I sticked on different OPAMPs on V;BUF634 G;OPA627, my impression was very mellow and wide soundstage.
 But couldn't focused enough (also provides 30mV DC).
 After changing them to AD8397, the dull focus disappeared.
 Thus I concluded GND must be higher current type and in same type.


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## jamato8

Great. Do you think in this position, any opamp is better than others?

 I have 2 AD797's in the G and V right now. edit: I took them out. I don't like the sound. The soundfield was more spread out more but imaging wasn't very good. Bass was too pronounced (strong) also. 

 With the transistor buffers and the opamps being used run time is most likely around 10 hours on 800mA batteries.

 So has anyone checked the actual output power of the P3+ with transistor buffers or BUF634's?


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## ryuzoh

Then, how about 3/4 (V and G) as AD8397, transistor buffers, AD743JNs in L/R?


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## jamato8

I will have to try that.


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## HiFlight

I have spent most of the day rolling opamps. I found a conflict when trying the same single opamp (OPA27) in both virtual and ground channel. I got a lot of oscillation. Also, found the unfocused soundstage with several combinations using both V and G. 

 I ended up using the LMH6655 as my only VG opamp in the center socket. 

 I also ran into some oscillation problems when using the transistor buffers and LT1028 single-channel opamps. 

 BUF634 seems to work best with most of the combinations I have tried so far. 

 I feel that it will probably be impossible to pick a Topkit consisting of one combination for this amp, but I am thinking of a interchangeable package similar to what iBasso sends...a mix and match of really top opamps. 

 So far, the very best sound I have found consists of the AD744 biased into Class A operation and BUF634 with LMH6655 in the center ground socket. I am going to make up a set of Hi-C BUF634s and see how that scales with the Class A 744. 

 This actually sounds better to me than my AD743 combinations. 

 As my benchmark, I was using (2) OPA627BPs in LR, BUF634 in buffer sockets, and LMH6655 in Ground. I am also going to work the THS4032 into the mix somehow. 

 The class A 744 beats the 627 IMO.


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## jamato8

Gaahhh. I think a number of my biased opamps are in storage. I do have a couple here. I have the 744 but can't remember what resistor to use. Ron? 

 So in this amp do you prefer the BUF634 to the transistor buffer?

 Ok I have the stock opamp withthe 634 buffers and the 6655 in the AV. I have 744 opamps but none that are setup with biasing. I have some 5534's biased from when working with Xin's 3, which was my favorite.

 My 744 are the KN. Used them in my power supply for my dac in my BIG home dac that I built. In that in the voltage supply they were the best sounding, which surprised me as they really should have influenced the sound due to much good filtering after the regulation circuit I have them in but they were the best.


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## HiFlight

Well, I have spent the entire day working with this bewitching amp. I made up a set of stacked (2x) BUF634s and also a set of Hi-C buffers. I then compared both of these with the Class A 744s in LR and with both AD8397 and LMH6655 in the center GV socket. 

 The stacked buffers clearly sounded better than the Hi-C...a more encompassing soundstage with much better imaging. One very big drawback to biasing the 634 to Hi-C is that the current draw increases to 15ma per buffer. About a 7X increase. The LMH6655 also was noticeably better as a ground opamp than was the 8397. Imaging was more 2-dimensional with the 8397.


 I find that the 6655 is a hard opamp to beat for ground. 

 Tomorrow I will do some head to head comparisons with the AD743 agains the Class A AD744. I will probably feed the amp some squarewaves and see how each combo presents them on my scope. 

 I find that those amps that can pass a good squarewave invariably sound good. 

 It is easy to bump the tabs on the gain jumpers when re-inserting the board into the case. I wondered why one channel suddenly was louder than the other. I also discovered that with no jumpers, the gain defaults to zero. 

 Amazing how one can waste an entire day playing with tiny parts! Well, maybe waste is too strong a word. I could have, instead, been doing honey-do chores.


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## jamato8

Stacked buffers. I don't even think I have any extra 634's. What a bummer to have everything in storage 1000 miles away. I do have many different opamps with me but mostly the older stuff used with Xin's amps. Old, that is funny. They are maybe a few years old though I do have a couple of very hard to find 5534's from 1982 and they are better than the rest of the 5534's. Why I don't know.


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## HiFlight

The biased 744s were made by cutting off the #6 pin, then bending the #5 pin to fit into the #6 socket hole. I am going to make some up using SOIC case style, as it is much easier to make them up with an adapter. Just cut off a leg and a bit of solder bridging and you are done. 

 When I was making them up for my Xin amps, it was easy to break off a pin accidentally when bending it. With the SOICs, there is little chance to ruin an opamp. I was rather surprised that the Hi-C didn't sound as good as the stacked 634, as that was a mainstay in Xins SuperMacros. 

 I did find that with stacked buffers and using the extra sockets for the class A 743s, it is necessary to cut off the top of the gain jumper tabs, as you can't get the board back into the case unless the tabs are shortened. 

 I am pretty sure the biased 744 will end up as a Topkit selection somewhere down the road. 

 While there are combinations that seem to be synergistic, there are also combinations that either oscillate or exhibit some other type of artifacts. I have seen this mostly in the V and G channels.


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## denging

so guys, what is it all about anyway? a true improvement or merely a 'tweak' ?


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## ryuzoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The biased 744s were made by cutting off the #6 pin, then bending the #5 pin to fit into the #6 socket hole._

 

That's same method as LISAIII
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think OPA27s, OPA627s and LT1028(A)s are too fast and requires more margin to compensate on G channel in spite of the fact that they are unity-gain-stable.
 Also, the output from the G leads to capacitance like WIMA w/o resistance.
 The fact will make the OPs on G unstable.

 In Japan, we have reports of slider-noise with AD827JN.
 Because biasing resistors is too high and lacking currents for biasing AD827s.


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## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so guys, what is it all about anyway? a true improvement or merely a 'tweak' ?_

 

IMO, the performance of the class A AD744 with stacked buffers represents a major improvement rather than a tweak. Still examining the ground options, but LMH6655 sounds very good. 

 So far some of my LR favorites include the AD8022, LMH6622, AD743JN, and the class A biased AD744. 

 I found the Hi-C buffers to have less impact than the stacked buffers. It also draws MUCH more current. I will, however, try the Hi-C in the ground channels.


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## arirug

I have received my P3+ and thinks it sounds terrific! While I`m writing this I listen to Johnny Cash with my P3+, an imod 4th gen and Sennheiser HD600! And I`m still enjoying my D10. iBasso really makes some great portable amps to a bargain price! I have just tried the P3+ in stock configuration!


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## HiFlight

There is little question that iBasso has become a major player in the very high quality portable amp arena. 

 The P3+ has the best sound of any portable amp that I have heard. 
 Now, if we could just add the D10 DAC and call it the D10+!!!!!

 The P3+ offers more opportunities for customization than does the D10, but I am predicting that the D10 will remain the DAC/AMP flagship for iBasso, while the P3+ will become their benchmark portable amp.


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## arirug

I use rechargeable batteries in the P3+. Do I have to take these out if I want to use the external power supply?


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## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is little question that iBasso has become a major player in the very high quality portable amp arena. 

 The P3+ has the best sound of any portable amp that I have heard. 
 Now, if we could just add the D10 DAC and call it the D10+!!!!!

 The P3+ offers more opportunities for customization than does the D10, but I am predicting that the D10 will remain the DAC/AMP flagship for iBasso, while the P3+ will become their benchmark portable amp._

 

I look forward to seeing a D10+ though.

 Can anyone tell me the difference between the P3+ and the P3 OEM in terms of the components and the SQ. Is the D10 2 channels? Can you please tell the advantages of 3 channels/4 channels over 2 channels as well?

 Thank you.


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## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look forward to seeing a D10+ though.

 Can anyone tell me the difference between the P3+ and the P3 OEM in terms of the components and the SQ. Is the D10 2 channels? Can you please tell the advantages of 3 channels/4 channels over 2 channels as well?

 Thank you._

 

Unfortunately, iBasso confirmed to me that there will be no D10+ coming out (as of right now)...perhaps there will be one if it uses the D1 enclosure


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## jamato8

I will be honest. I think the amp of the D10 is excellent. I don't think they really need to change it.


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## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use rechargeable batteries in the P3+. Do I have to take these out if I want to use the external power supply?_

 

No, you can leave them in place while using external power.


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## HiFlight

The P3+ has upgraded components and additional sockets for opamp rolling in LR, Buffer and Ground. There are several ground provisions available, a virtual ground, and separated ground

 iBassos use of the "4-Channel" does not mean audio channels as in surround sound, rather it is like a 2 monoblock amps with separate preamps. There is separation of the power supplies to avoid interaction. 

 I am not sure how all this relates to absolute sound quality in practice, although in theory it should result in better sound under demanding conditions. 

 IIRC, the P3 is 4-channel architecture and the D10 is 2-channel. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look forward to seeing a D10+ though.

 Can anyone tell me the difference between the P3+ and the P3 OEM in terms of the components and the SQ. Is the D10 2 channels? Can you please tell the advantages of 3 channels/4 channels over 2 channels as well?

 Thank you._


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## arirug

Thank you, HiFlight!


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## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The P3+ has upgraded components and additional sockets for opamp rolling in LR, Buffer and Ground. There are several ground provisions available, a virtual ground, and separated ground

 iBassos use of the "4-Channel" does not mean audio channels as in surround sound, rather it is like a 2 monoblock amps with separate preamps. There is separation of the power supplies to avoid interaction. 

 I am not sure how all this relates to absolute sound quality in practice, although in theory it should result in better sound under demanding conditions. 

 IIRC, the P3 is 4-channel architecture and the D10 is 2-channel._

 

Thanks Ron.
 Just want to clarify one more thing:
 P3+ use upgraded components. Does it means that P33+ is as good as the P3 OEM project one?


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## diditmyself

Can anyone tell me what the operating voltage on the opamps are? Is there a step up converter in there? A lot of opamps behave and sound bad at low voltage supply - lower than 10V, and some can't take more than 12V.


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## ryuzoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be honest. I think the amp of the D10 is excellent. I don't think they really need to change it._

 

Agreed.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it means that P3+ is as good as the P3 OEM project one?_

 

No, difference btwn them are the voltage(P3+;9V, fi.Q;16V and 24V), variety for circuits, and main GND is fixed with LT1210CT7(That can provide 1.1A, you can choose output GND driver as you like), and the fi.Q is designed for driving higher performance headphones like E9 or HD650 on the go.


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## HiFlight

I have arrived at a combination of opamps that I consider to be suitable for Topkit status. The total number of opamps in the complete kit is (9). 

 There are, at this level of amp performance, just a few opamps that I think really bring a true sense of realism to the P3+

 The complete kit consists of 2 sets of LR opamps, the AD743, and the AD744 running in output bypassed and biased to class A operation. Both of these opamps are deliver stunning performance in the P3+. 

 For buffers, I chose 2X stacked BUF634s. They deliver enough current to allow for full instrumental dynamics & transients and yet provide a good reserve of headroom. 

 For Ground I am using one Hi-C BUF634 in the G channel socket with a dummy opamp in the V socket. 
 These can be interchanged, delivering a noticeably different output presentation. 

 With the Hi-C 634 in G socket, soundstage is more open and airy, and somewhat removed from the listener. When reversed, the sound has more punch and impact, with a closer soundstage. Both sound very good, and it will be up to the user to choose their favorite, based on music type, headphones used, and personal preference. 

 Some of the components, such as the AD743s are interchangeable with other Topkits. The stacked buffers will soon be available as an optional item from iBasso. They are also an easy DIY mod, if you have 4 BUF634s. 

 I think that this Topkit will be offered alacarte, due to the large number of opamps involved. 

 It is also likely that the battery life will be shortened significantly, as the Hi-C BUF634 alone draws about 15ma. 

 I will so far as to say that while listening to the full kit, the soundstage, sense of ambience, imaging and perception of reality is equal to that of any amp I have ever owned.


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## jamato8

Did you try tying pins 6 together on the G/V sockets?

 Ok, I am using the 743's, stacked bUF6634 (found an extra pair) and the a dual opamp in the G/V (the one HiFlight liked but I can't remember the number). 

 I need to let it warm up but it does sound good. Very high definition and separated sounds.


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## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be honest. I think the amp of the D10 is excellent. I don't think they really need to change it._

 

I agree too, but I think part of the "sickness" of myself (and all head-fi members) is the curiosity about how I can improve my setup.

 It can be summed up by the _6 Million Dollar Man_ catch phrase: "We can rebuild him...Better, Stronger, Faster".


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will so far as to say that while listening to the full kit, the soundstage, sense of ambience, imaging and perception of reality is equal to that of any amp I have ever owned._

 

Including your SAC K1000 amp?


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## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Including your SAC K1000 amp?_

 

I would say that with my Sony F1 phones, I can tell little difference between the two. Mostly I was using the F1s for my testing, as the soundstage differences are more easily heard with them. 

 The Heron+ performs WAY above its paygrade!

 Off the topic a bit, I like the sound of the RWA Teac and Promethius TVC preamp better with K-1000s than I do with the SAC. I believe the highs are tamed a little better. Make me lust for a RWA 30.2!


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## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ryuzoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed.


 No, difference btwn them are the voltage(P3+;9V, fi.Q;16V and 24V), variety for circuits, and main GND is fixed with LT1210CT7(That can provide 1.1A, you can choose output GND driver as you like), and the fi.Q is designed for driving higher performance headphones like E9 or HD650 on the go._

 

Thanks for the reply, Ryuzoh.

 Then I can drop this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and concentrate on the P3 OEM project and the announcement of the 2nd batch of the fi.Q.


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## jamato8

I like the stock opamp, transistor buffers and the 6655 in the G/V socket. Very dynamic and open with good frequency extemes. Beautiful bass.

 Edit:

 With this configuration I get a nice distance from the sound, width and depth and very solid resonant bass. It is fun to explore the different opamps though. This thing is versatile.

 Edit:

 Ok using the AD744 in the G/V sockets. Nice. Very fast like G/V bypassed version but a little different sound.


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## diditmyself

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 For Ground I am using one Hi-C BUF634 in the G channel socket with a dummy opamp in the V socket. 
 These can be interchanged, delivering a noticeably different output presentation. 

 With the Hi-C 634 in G socket, soundstage is more open and airy, and somewhat removed from the listener. When reversed, the sound has more punch and impact, with a closer soundstage. Both sound very good, and it will be up to the user to choose their favorite, based on music type, headphones used, and personal preference._

 

If your running the amp with an open loop buffer as ground the effect is an unnatural wide soundstage. This is an errouneus sound. The ground has to be low impedance if you want a correct soundstage.


----------



## HiFlight

There are only a couple of device choices for the G and V channels: BUF634, iBasso transistor buffer, and the Dummy buffer. My choice was based on which one sounded most like a live performance. Neither of the 2 channels sounded unnaturally wide. 

 Of course, a wide variety of dual channel opamps can be used in the center socket, but this sort of defeats the option of using dedicated buffers in the G and V channels. 

 Although iBasso said that most any combination of buffers or opamps could be used in the 3 ground options, I didn't try bypassing both or using different buffers in both G and V sockets.


----------



## jamato8

"The Stack"

 An iRiver H140 with a 120gb HD, the iBasso Cobra as the dac and of course the P3+ amplifying the show.

 Enjoying the Heron with the stock opamps, transistor buffers and an AD744 in the G and V socket.


----------



## tongson

Anyone has pictures of the back panel without the screws on? I would like to see the screw holes closely. TIA.


----------



## HiFlight

No pix, but it has threaded stud on top right and bottom left. Much quicker and easier to change batteries. The nuts even have a small countersink to help start threading them on.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tongson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone has pictures of the back panel without the screws on? I would like to see the screw holes closely. TIA._


----------



## shredder

........and I just bought the D10......... LOL I can't wait to have the head-fi teeth really sink in!


----------



## tongson

Thanks jamato8. Nice, no threads on the case.


----------



## GreenLeo

Hi Jamato,

 Any chance you may comment on the performance between the P3+ and the P3 F.Q?

 Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

F.Q.?


----------



## HiFlight

Tonight I made up several modules using the AD744 in output-bypassed, Class A bias configuration. I used the SOIC version with SMD resistors to allow a fit in the D10 case.

 The sound is very good..very detailed. I haven't yet sorted out which buffers will work best in the D10, but am using stacked BUF634 in the P3+. These are labor-intensive to make up, and I remember now how much I don't like working with SMD devices!


----------



## jamato8

Ron, you need to get an oven.


----------



## Bojamijams

Could I bother either of you two to test the P3+ (with whatever setup you have right now) with some high sensitivity IEMs? I'm wondering if the new hi current setup has more hiss then the stock and if the stock has any hiss at all.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_F.Q.?_

 

Yeap, the P3 oem version. How do you compare the P3+ and the P3 OEM?


----------



## wagen




----------



## wagen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeap, the P3 oem version. How do you compare the P3+ and the P3 OEM?_

 

There isn't an OEM P3 that I know of. There is the OEM or fi.Q but they are different amps both in layout and voltage so I could compare the P3+ to any amp.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeap, the P3 oem version. How do you compare the P3+ and the P3 OEM?_

 

I think you might be confused because the new P3+ is spoken about in the "iBasso OEM project" thread. 

 The OEM project is an entirely different beast, with a completely different circuit, operating around twice the voltage as the P3+, etc, etc. This is the fiQuest


----------



## Bojamijams

Any word on IEM hiss with the P3+ ?


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you might be confused because the new P3+ is spoken about in the "iBasso OEM project" thread. 

 The OEM project is an entirely different beast, with a completely different circuit, operating around twice the voltage as the P3+, etc, etc. This is the fiQuest_

 

I see. I thought that the OEM project is an upgraded version of P3. Thanks for the clarification.

 So why can't we compare the SQ between the P3+ and the fiQuest when the operating voltage between them are different?


----------



## Bojamijams

Any word when the P3+ is expected back in stock?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see. I thought that the OEM project is an upgraded version of P3. Thanks for the clarification.

 So why can't we compare the SQ between the P3+ and the fiQuest when the operating voltage between them are different?_

 

No, you're right, we can definitely compare the two based on SQ. I was just making the distinction between the two amps.

 As far as I know, Jamato is the only person to have heard both...I pm'ed him about the differences last week, but he the P3+ was still quite new, and he hadn't had time to really try and find the best configuration of both amps.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you might be confused because the new P3+ is spoken about in the "iBasso OEM project" thread. 

 The OEM project is an entirely different beast, with a completely different circuit, operating around twice the voltage as the P3+, etc, etc. This is the fiQuest_

 

The OEM isn't totally complete, as far as I know. The OEM is one of the best portables I have heard. It is in the same class as the Lisa III with a little more open sound and high frequency extension, which gives it a more airy sound. When comparing to the P3+ the same difference is noticed though the P3+ isn't quite up to the Lisa III but close in some regards. Again the voltage swing helps drive that current.

 Edit:

 Ok, the AD744 OB and CA very nice. More detail and great presence. Will have to listen more. I can use my adapter now for any dip opamp and of course soic on a Brown Dog etc. I must have made up these adapters 4 years ago or so. I am surprised I have them with me. I used a 1/8 watt resistor on each that is neatly tucked under the adapter so it is out of the way and still works, which it would not if on the side of the adapter.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Edit:

 Ok, the AD744 OB and CA very nice. More detail and great presence. Will have to listen more. I can use my adapter now for any dip opamp and of course soic on a Brown Dog etc. I must have made up these adapters 4 years ago or so. I am surprised I have them with me. I used a 1/8 watt resistor on each that is neatly tucked under the adapter so it is out of the way and still works, which it would not if on the side of the adapter._

 

What does the OB in AD744 OB stand for?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does the OB in AD744 OB stand for?_

 

It stands for "output bypassed". There are only a couple of opamps where this can be accomplished. Basically, it is bypassing the power amp section of the opamp and running the output directly from the pre-amp section (from the compensation pin). This can also be combined with Class A operation if so desired.


----------



## jamato8

So Ron what opamps do you know of that can be run this way?

 I have to admit that the AD744 in OB and CA is a detail monster. Very interesting. Such a level of retrieval. I wonder if there is a bump in the upper mid lower higher frequency? Or is it just cleaner?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any word when the P3+ is expected back in stock?_

 

Two days.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Ron what opamps do you know of that can be run this way?

 I have to admit that the AD744 in OB and CA is a detail monster. Very interesting. Such a level of retrieval. I wonder if there is a bump in the upper mid lower higher frequency? Or is it just cleaner?



 Two days._

 

The NE/SA/SE5534, AD744 and AD829 can be modified to run OB, 5534 and 744 can be run OBCA, 829 can't do both at the same time. 

 Any single-channel opamp can be modified to run CA.


----------



## HiFlight

Deleted, duplicate post.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It stands for "output bypassed". There are only a couple of opamps where this can be accomplished. Basically, it is bypassing the power amp section of the opamp and running the output directly from the pre-amp section (from the compensation pin). This can also be combined with Class A operation if so desired._

 

Thanks, Ron. Yeah, the only thing I could think of was "out of bounds", or "obstetrics"...stupid medical training.


----------



## jamato8

Or OB, obturator (as used for the guide with trach), and OB you know OBGYN, OB as in oral bath when my pt's have emesis (projectile vomiting) and on it goes.


----------



## bodine1231

Sweet pics!


----------



## HiFlight

So far, I have tested the AD743, OPA350 (single channel version of OPA2350), and OP27 in Class A and the AD744 in Class A + Output bypassed using the AD8616, EL8201 and LTC6241 as buffers. 

 All combinations sound very good and can be used without modification in the P3, P3+ and D10. They vary slightly in soundstage and imaging and all seem to be more resolving of minute nuances of detail. The better the rest of the equipment and recording chain, the better they sound.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, I have tested the AD743, OPA350 (single channel version of OPA2350), and OP27 in Class A and the AD744 in Class A + Output bypassed using the AD8616, EL8201 and LTC6241 as buffers. 

 All combinations sound very good and can be used without modification in the P3, P3+ and D10. They vary slightly in soundstage and imaging and all seem to be more resolving of minute nuances of detail. The better the rest of the equipment and recording chain, the better they sound._

 

coming up with new set of top kit for D10?


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, I have tested the AD743, OPA350 (single channel version of OPA2350), and OP27 in Class A and the AD744 in Class A + Output bypassed *using the AD8616, EL8201 and LTC6241 as buffers. 
*
 All combinations sound very good and can be used without modification in the P3, P3+ and D10. They vary slightly in soundstage and imaging and all seem to be more resolving of minute nuances of detail. The better the rest of the equipment and recording chain, the better they sound._

 

How on earth could you use the LTC6241 as a buffer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Anyway the P3+ is interesting. Perhaps I'll buy me a new portable amp. Will it drive an HD650 decently, with external power supply attached?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hopeless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How on earth could you use the LTC6241 as a buffer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Anyway the P3+ is interesting. Perhaps I'll buy me a new portable amp. Will it drive an HD650 decently, with external power supply attached?_

 


 By inserting each adapter into the socket! 
 Seriously, try it first, before you make negative comments.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_coming up with new set of top kit for D10?_

 

I'm working on it, but there are several Class A combinations that are just to close for me to try to pick a "best", so more than likely, I will just offer the Class A modules and buffers "alacarte" to those who don't wish to make them up personally. 

 I do have some "beta" sets out for impartial testing. 

 The Class A AD743, Class A OPA350, and Class A + bypassed output AD744 are where most of my efforts have been focused to date. 

 The D10 is not as easy to work with as is the P3 or P3+ because the LR socket is designed for dual-channel opamps only and each buffer socket is also for dual-channel buffers. 

 For LR Class A, it is necessary to use 2 single channel opamps and solder them directly to a 2>1 adapter, as there is insufficient room for a socketed adapter. 

 If a soldering mistake is made during the assembly process, it necessitates scrapping one adapter, 2 opamps and 4 SMD resistors.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm working on it, but there are several Class A combinations that are just to close for me to try to pick a "best", so more than likely, I will just offer the Class A modules and buffers "alacarte" to those who don't wish to make them up personally. 

 I do have some "beta" sets out for impartial testing. 

 The Class A AD743, Class A OPA350, and Class A + bypassed output AD744 are where most of my efforts have been focused to date. 

 The D10 is not as easy to work with as is the P3 or P3+ because the LR socket is designed for dual-channel opamps only and each buffer socket is also for dual-channel buffers. 

 For LR Class A, it is necessary to use 2 single channel opamps and solder them directly to a 2>1 adapter, as there is insufficient room for a socketed adapter. 

 If a soldering mistake is made during the assembly process, it necessitates scrapping one adapter, 2 opamps and 4 SMD resistors._

 

WOW
 Really sounds intriguing.

 I think I will not solder soic chips or smd resistors any more,

 but I do not understand this:
  Quote:


 one adapter, 2 opamps and 4 SMD resistors. 
 

compared to this:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One must remove the #6 pin, connect the #5 pin to the #6 solder pad, then use a 2.2k resistor to bridge #6 to #7 pin._

 

(for those who want to solder ...)


----------



## SpudHarris

At present (thanks to Ron's input) I'm using the 744's in Class A with the Output Bypassed + Ibasso Buffers & AD797's in Ground again in Class A. I only have the standard P3 and am amazed by the resolution, dynamics and general SQ of this amp so I can only imagine that the P3+ must be something else!

 On the subject of SMD resistors, they are so tiny that I can't even think about using them. With some clever thought to the placement though I've managed to use .6W metal film caps and they work a treat.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By inserting each adapter into the socket! 
 Seriously, try it first, before you make negative comments._

 

Seriously, the LTC6241 has 30 mA of _short circuit_ output current. There are a thousand of better opamps to use for buffers. OPA2727, OPA2350, and mostly the LME49726 with 300 mA output current (unfortunately only in MSOP package) come to my mind right now.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


 One must remove the #6 pin, connect the #5 pin to the #6 solder pad, then use a 2.2k resistor to bridge #6 to #7 pin. 
 

That way you bypass the output stage of the opamp, then you bias the bypassed output stage of the said opamp into class A. Kind of a waste of power and time, ain't it?

 If you 'output bypass' the AD744 by using pin 5 as the output, then class A biasing the output stage (pin 6 with the resistor to V+) doesn't make sense anymore at all. Either you bias pin 6 to make the output stage work in class A, or you just use pin 5 so as to bypass the output stage completely.


----------



## rhw

Hopeless,
 thanks for the explanation.
 I was irritated by the 4 SMD resistors.

 SpudHarris,
 maybe I should built my own.
 Well, have to look for all the parts.
 For some BrownDogs and opamps, shipping will become more expensive than the parts.
 Hmmmmmmmm


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW
 Really sounds intriguing.

 I think I will not solder soic chips or smd resistors any more,

 but I do not understand this:

 compared to this:

 (for those who want to solder ...)_

 

Sorry for any confusion, but I am using the SOIC version of the AD744 instead of the DIP style, removing the (tiny) #6 pin, then soldering it onto an adapter from which I have removed the #5 pin and previously installed an SMD 2.2K resistor bridging the 6-7 solder pads on the adapter and an SMD 0 ohm resistor between solder pads 5-6 on the adapter. This makes for a very small module and since I do the mods to the adapter first, I don't run the risk of having to scrap an entire module if I make a mistake soldering the SMD devices. 

 I tried a number of different methods to achieve the OB+CA operation, and this one seems to be the quickest for me with fewer mistakes. Keep in mind though, that I have worked with SMD devices for a number of years and despite their small size, they are about the easiest devices to use for this project.

 Once the 2 modules are complete, I then solder them both into a Browndog 2-1 adapter to allow their use in the D10. 

 For P3 and P3+, the 2-1 adapter is not required. One can also use Class A opamps on a 2-1 adapter for the ground channel, if desired (again, only in P3 & P3+)


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hopeless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That way you bypass the output stage of the opamp, then you bias the bypassed output stage of the said opamp into class A. Kind of a waste of power and time, ain't it? Yes, it would be. 

 If you 'output bypass' the AD744 by using pin 5 as the output, then class A biasing the output stage (pin 6 with the resistor to V+) doesn't make sense anymore at all. Either you bias pin 6 to make the output stage work in class A, or you just use pin 5 so as to bypass the output stage completely._

 

You misunderstand me...Pin 6 (output) is removed and is not connected in any way to the socket. It is only the compensation pin (#5) that is biased. 

 Regarding the LTC6241HV, It swings to within 30mv of the supply rails which is very good, and the DC offset is extremely low, which is also very good. Although I also usually favor a buffer with a higher output current, the 6241 actually sounds excellent as a buffer and has plenty of drive, very close to that of the 2727 and 49720, while drawing much less quiescent current. I read the datasheet as the DIP LME49720 having an output of about 23 ma, very similar to that of the 6241. 

 This is one of those opamps that looks great on the datasheet, but, IMO, does not sound that good in actual operation. 

 If output current is the only consideration, it is difficult to consider anything but the AD8397. 

 It is not my inclination to quibble about the characteristics of various opamps but rather to provide information to those who might be interested in improving the sound of their amps. 

 Please feel free to either accept or decline my suggestions.


----------



## denging

@Ron,

 I really like the idea to put the LTC6241HV on P3's Buffer socket... unfortunatelly, the Buffer socket in P3 (and perhaps the P3+) is designed for 2x single opamp ... do you use some sort of a 'dual to single' adapter (which i hardly find it anywhere) ? btw, is it possible that 'HV' on LTC6241HV is for 'High Voltage'...

 thanks


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You misunderstand me...Pin 6 (output) is removed and is not connected in any way to the socket. It is only the compensation pin (#5) that is biased. 

 Regarding the LTC6241HV, It swings to within 30mv of the supply rails which is very good, and the DC offset is extremely low, which is also very good. Although I also usually favor a buffer with a higher output current, the 6241 actually sounds excellent as a buffer and has plenty of drive, very close to that of the 2727 and 49720, while drawing much less quiescent current. I read the datasheet as the DIP LME49720 having an output of about 23 ma, very similar to that of the 6241. 

 This is one of those opamps that looks great on the datasheet, but, IMO, does not sound that good in actual operation. 

 If output current is the only consideration, it is difficult to consider anything but the AD8397. 

 It is not my inclination to quibble about the characteristics of various opamps but rather to provide information to those who might be interested in improving the sound of their amps. 

 Please feel free to either accept or decline my suggestions._

 

For buffer the LT6234 is a better choice than the LTC6241, and draws less current too. It has more output current and can drive heavy loads.


 That said, regarding the class A biasing... I just commented the quote I quoted, as it was written. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway biasing pin 5 of the AD744 is probably no good to do, since on that pin the opamp will have veery little output current, and that way you choke it even before considering the load represented by the input of the buffer stage...


----------



## hopeless

Consider the rail-to-rail and very nice LT1678 and LT1632 too. I want to try them (especially the former) in my DAC.


----------



## jamato8

I am back to the stock configuration. I am using the HD650's right now and the sound is very fine. The bass is well controlled and there is waaay more than enough volume if needed. Very open and transparent. Can't wait to hear the JH13 Pro IEM's with this and the other amps.

 Wow, this is really driving the 650's. The bass. . . great stuff.


----------



## hopeless

Must be a very nice amp. If only someone could compare for me a Cute Beyond with a good opamp (like an OPA2211) to this one... That'd be fantastic


----------



## jamato8

I have been using a OPA211 on an adapter to make it into a dual and it is a very fine sounding opamp, very fine.


----------



## BabyPig

Is this a portable rig XD. It's surely GRAND...... but not for my pocket ^^||

 Great job Jamoto!


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been using a OPA211 on an adapter to make it into a dual and it is a very fine sounding opamp, very fine._

 

True, indeed...


 Now there's the dual OPA2211AID available as well. I have 5 of them, one of which will soon enough go in my DAC (currently enjoying the LT1358).


----------



## hopeless

Guys try the LT1358 (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/dac...ml#post5774979).


 According to Jim Williams, the LT1358 (well he says the single LT1357) and the OPA211 are the best existing opamps for audio of all (second place going to the National LME's & others).

 I must say that the more I try, the more I agree


----------



## AmanGeorge

I couldn't find my Etys this morning, so I decided to bring a pair of W1000 I have to work today, and I'm listening through a GoVibe USB DAC and a newly acquired P3... this is without a doubt a *very* good little amplifier. The sound is very pleasantly intimate, and smooth with nice, deep controlled bass. I haven't actually started playing with the opamps yet but I'm looking forward to having some fun!


----------



## hopeless

Try the LT1469 as well. In my DAC (@ 12V): LT1469 > LT1358 > LT1364, LME49860.


----------



## denging

I'm a noob alright and no doubt about it but if i'm not mistaken this thread is about P3+ is not it? Pleasa mr. hopeless, you make me lost here by keep infusing your experienced yet non related posting to this thread, afaik different circuitry constitute different effect to opamps


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a noob alright and no doubt about it but if i'm not mistaken this thread is about P3+ is not it? Pleasa mr. hopeless, you make me lost here by keep infusing your experienced yet non related posting to this thread, afaik different circuitry constitute different effect to opamps_

 

In all fairness, opamp rolling does play a large part in the P3+...I think Mr. Hopeless is simply recommending various opamps that he believes will work well in the P3+.

 If you have any questions, I'm sure any number of people will be more than happy to help.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In all fairness, opamp rolling does play a large part in the P3+...I think Mr. Hopeless is simply recommending various opamps that he believes will work well in the P3+.

 If you have any questions, I'm sure any number of people will be more than happy to help._

 

Yepp, just that. They'll work.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmanGeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't find my Etys this morning, so I decided to bring a pair of W1000 I have to work today, and I'm listening through a GoVibe USB DAC and a newly acquired P3... this is without a doubt a *very* good little amplifier. The sound is very pleasantly intimate, and smooth with nice, deep controlled bass. I haven't actually started playing with the opamps yet but I'm looking forward to having some fun!_

 

Glad to read you are enjoying the P3.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to read you are enjoying the P3. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For me, I'm enjoying a C&C BOX V2 modified with two LME49721, and Rubycon ZLH power supply caps.


----------



## AmanGeorge

I am, Miguel! In fact, the sound that I'm getting out of it right now compares favorably to an old fullsize desktop amp that I have sitting here due to being a little less energetic in the treble.


----------



## hopeless

I'd recommend trying the TLE2142. Bipolar opamp (= better than FET) that sounds smooth, solid, articulate, crystalline and natural.

 There's a 4500 euro German DAC (from "Acoustic Arts") that uses 8 of them in its output stage, and now my DAC has one too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 It's nice also because it works from 4V to 44V, has high slew rate, and wide output swing. Could be ideal for your low voltage portable amps.


----------



## jamato8

Amazing, 4 to 44 volts. I wonder what it sounds like on the high end. Opamps continue to make evolve. They now remind me of tubes, in evolution, but tubes are still my favorite though difficult to go portable and since the tiny form of tubes haven't been made for many years and evolution stopped, the portable tube isn't really a good option.


----------



## hopeless

Well, speaking of evolution... As soon as my adapters arrive (few of them due to little money left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) I will try the EL2227 and OPA2822, both of which are quite promising for their vanishingly low distortion in the audio band. We'll see. I'm particularly inspired by the Intersil part... I guess in the end it will be a game between these and the OPA2211.


----------



## wagen

[size=medium]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OPA2132P => BUF03FJ => OPA627SM
 14.8V battery work now.
 Capacitancehilips 16V 2200μF[/size]


----------



## hopeless

Is the OPA2132P in the main channels? I like that opamp.


----------



## SpudHarris

How do you get a 14.8v battery in there?


----------



## denging

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=medium]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OPA2132P => BUF03FJ => OPA627SM
 14.8V battery work now.
 Capacitancehilips 16V 2200μF[/size]




_

 

This is interesting. How does it sound? Those cans draw a lot of juice alright..


----------



## hopeless

I'm afraid that that OPA2132P is not in the main channels. BTW rather than the OPA627SM I'd have put in there a couple of LME49710HA. Not only it sounds better, it's also more suited to low supply voltage.


----------



## wagen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you get a 14.8v battery in there?_

 

[size=medium]I only use four Lithium batteries, model 10440.
 [/size]


----------



## Gbjerke

by using the opamps that come with it, what's the best combination? And i know it depends on taste, but just general.


----------



## SpudHarris

It is personal taste but IMO the AD797's make excellent ground chips with almost any combination of L/R. I would keep the 827 in L/R and tansistor buffers already installed and put the 797's in G/V.

 I've biased my 797's to Class A and they are just superb in L/R and ground.


----------



## nickyboyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is personal taste but IMO the AD797's make excellent ground chips with almost any combination of L/R. I would keep the 827 in L/R and tansistor buffers already installed and put the 797's in G/V._

 

That is the set up i am currently using, and with my K701's it sounds superb. I have just listened to the same set up but using an SR-71 for the amp. Any body have any suggestions what combo's to use to bring the P3+ close to the SR-71 sound signature?


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is the set up i am currently using, and with my K701's it sounds superb. I have just listened to the same set up but using an SR-71 for the amp. Any body have any suggestions what combo's to use to bring the P3+ close to the SR-71 sound signature?_

 

The SR71 has AD8610 + BUF634, so your guess...


----------



## nickyboyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hopeless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SR71 has AD8610 + BUF634, so your guess...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's the problem, as it was pointed out to me today, an amp is more than the sum of it's opamps. If anyone has a buffer and opamp combination's for the P3+ to give it the driving power and the warmth of the SR71, please let me know. I will have to drop HiFlight and jam a line to see if they have any suggestions. But still, the P3+ in my current configuration is a superb amp, great drive and very analytical, after listening to the SR71, adding that warmth factor would be a nice addition to the P3+'s range.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the problem, an amp is more than the sum of it's opamps. If anyone has a buffer and opamp combination's for the P3+ to give it the driving power and the warmth of the SR71, please let me know. I will have to drop HiFlight and jam a line to see if they have any suggestions. But still, the P3+ in my current configuration is a superb amp, great drive and very analytical, after listening to the SR71,a dding that warmth factor would be a nice addition to the P3+'s range._

 

Of course, but what you asked is "close" not "a copy of it", and I replied consequently


----------



## nickyboyo

Absolutely


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There's nothing better for bringing it close to the SR71 than equipping the P3 with the same opamps and buffers. The topology difference can't be overcome.

 That said, a 4 channel amp is supposed to be "better"...


----------



## nickyboyo

Just out of interest folks, how is the P3+ shaping up with burn in? I have finally settled on the opamp combo that i prefer and i am allowing the amp to settle in. Has anyone noticed how the amp sound changes with use? Is this going to require minimal burn in, or is it going to be an RSA 400-1000 hour burn in marathon?


----------



## jamato8

I found mine, P3+, sounded good from the start. I didn't pay too much attention to the burn-in but there is some smoothness to be obtained and a little more open sound but it didn't take long. One thing I noticed right away was the speed of this amp.


----------



## nickyboyo

Yes, with mine to, especially with the configuration i mentioned a couple of posts back. It's just with some of the opamps supplied, the amp sounded very scratchy, i was just wondering if this would settle down and change as the caps burnt in as i couldn't think of a reason why iBasso would supply the offending chips. Then again, i still haven't worked through all the possible combinations, so perhaps all will become clear in time with more experimentation. X2 on the speed, fair play, the amp is very upfront with it's presentation.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, with mine to, especially with the configuration i mentioned a couple of posts back. It's just with some of the opamps supplied, the amp sounded very scratchy, i was just wondering if this would settle down and change as the caps burnt in as i couldn't think of a reason why iBasso would supply the offending chips. Then again, i still haven't worked through all the possible combinations, so perhaps all will become clear in time with more experimentation. X2 on the speed, fair play, the amp is very upfront with it's presentation._

 

That's because the input current of the opamp runs through the volume pot. Avoid that opamp, there's no other way.

 The AD797 behaved just like that in my evolved CMOY suited for bipolar opamps. The LT1364, instead, for one, has high input current but doesn't cause those noises at all.


----------



## SpudHarris

I'm starting to like the Linear Technology OpAmps more and more. Never bought or used any until recently. Really like the 1357's a lot and have 1124's and 1469's on order.

 Although I still can't use Opa637's I'm still having fun rolling. I've got AD8610's in L/R + Buf634's + LT1357's in G/V. All OpAmps are in Class A Adapters and Buf634's are on high C (think that's the term?) adapters. This amp sounds like it should have cost at least 2-3 times more than it actually did which is brilliant considering that most improvements at this level are usually disproportionate to cost. This amp offers real bang for your buck!


----------



## hopeless

Hmm the LT1124 looks good; like a better (bipolar) LT1057.


 Try the LT1122 too - very good FET single opamp.


----------



## Bojamijams

For anyone that has a T4 (or a T3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), does the P3+ offer anything more for IEM's or is the T4/T3 all that IEM's really need?


----------



## nickyboyo

T4 or the T3 (when it is released) is perfect for iems with it's size, it just pairs up perfectly with narrow body players like the Sony s639f or the Sansa clip etc. The thing is tiny. The P3+ offers to tuneabilty and seems to drive larger cans with ease, much greater drive. 
 For the pocket-T4/T3, for the rucksack-P3+


----------



## Gbjerke

This might be from my lazyness, but what the heck. I've decided to put the AD 797s in the G/V channels. It sounds good but I think theres a tad too much treble at high volume. I would rather have less treble and more mid or bass. Any way to change the L/R so i get that setting?
 With the ones that come with it.


----------



## nickyboyo

AD8656 in the G/V. in fact, the 827 in the L/R, transistorised buffers fitted, then the 8656- you won't go far wrong


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AD8656 in the G/V_

 

Doesn't come with it. The ones i got were

 2 AD797 used in G/V
 AD827 Used in L/R
 AD712
 AD8066
 LM6172
 LMH6655
 LMH6643


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AD8656 in the G/V. in fact, the 827 in the L/R, transistorised buffers fitted, then the 8656- you won't go far wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So will i have to buy the AD8656, cause it didnt come with it. Did it come with yours?


----------



## SpudHarris

AD8656 is only 5.5v Max.


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AD8656 is only 5.5v Max._

 

Meaning that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## SpudHarris

Only use it in G/V.


----------



## Gbjerke

But my first post stated that i wanted more bass and mid with the opamps that came with the p3+. Did yours come with it? Seems kind of stupid to pay 1$ for an opamp and pay like 25 for shipping..


----------



## SpudHarris

Have you tried the various combos but not found the sound right for you?

 It may be that you will have to look at buying some other OpAmps. I like the 797's in G/V but you are right they do sound quite bright. I am using an OPA2111 in L/R with buffers and the bass is just fantastic. I am using W3's so bass is quite good anyway but that chip is just so right.


----------



## Gbjerke

Theres just a couple more combos i have to try out, but my headphones, PXC 450, are actually known to have little bass. So my hopes arent really up. Is there some way i can buy opamps without paying the shipping? because that AD one u recommended for G/V is just 1$ and shipping is atleast probably 20$+ which is silly. I'd at least have to buy a lot more opamps than 1 for that to seem smart. I think theyre way to bright. At high volumes sharp drums really hurt, though it isnt as loud as i would want it to be before it starts to hurt. I've always been quite sensitive to high pitch sounds though.


----------



## SpudHarris

I buy all my op amps from Farnell in the UK as shipping is included (normally next day delivery). Here is the Link for your country, let us know if that is any better.


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only use it in G/V._

 

Thanks so much. I found them, I'll buy them after i get back from my cabin. Anyways there are two of them. AD8656ARZ and AD8656ARMZ-R2. Which one should i get/what's the difference?

ProduktsÃ¸king | Farnell Norge

 And should i just keep the 827s in the L/R or is there any better combo with the AD8656 inserted?

 I'll grap an OPA2111 as well, so i can either go AD797 and OPA 2111 or AD8656 and OPA 2111.
 Can't wait. 
http://no.farnell.com/jsp/search/bro...questid=149653 Which one should I get? Sorry for being a pain^^,

 And have you guys been setting the Gain?


----------



## SpudHarris

Just the ARZ. You will also need to solder it onto a Brown Dog or similar as it is SOIC. The SO8 to DIP.

 I have literally 10's upon 10's of OpAmps but have to say my current favourite is definately the OPA2111KP with Buf634's and AD797's in G/V. To my ears I think this combo is just fantastic.

 Good luck.

 Nigel


----------



## Gbjerke

Ill take your setup for starters then. And, i'm quite **** at soldering, will i have to solder using the OPA2111? Will the 2111 make the sound a little less bright?


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just the ARZ. You will also need to solder it onto a Brown Dog or similar as it is SOIC. The SO8 to DIP.

 I have literally 10's upon 10's of OpAmps but have to say my current favourite is definately the OPA2111KP with Buf634's and AD797's in G/V. To my ears I think this combo is just fantastic.

 Good luck.

 Nigel_

 

Ill take your setup for starters then. And, i'm quite **** at soldering, will i have to solder using the OPA2111? Will the 2111 make the sound a little less bright?


----------



## SpudHarris

OPA2111KP is DIP so no Soldering. It's not too bright to my ear but it is very detailed and dynamic and the bass is quality. I don't think I'll be rolling it for a while.

 You have the buffers and the 797's so just get the OPA2111 and you are set. Let us know what you think.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

A good trick to finding cheap parts. Note that this is coming from someone who sells ICs for a living.

 Find a local distributor or manufacturers rep for the devices you want. Ask them for a sample. Sometimes they have them and will give them for free if you catch them on a good day. Worst case, you may be able to buy it cheaper from them.

 It helps if you work in the h/w engineering dept of any company. Vendors are more willing to help you out if they know you're playing w/ their parts.


----------



## SpudHarris

That's how I got my last 2 chips. LT1355 and the OPA2111. That said though they have earned well out of me the last few years, only last mont I spent £44 on 2 x OPA637's.


----------



## Gbjerke

I dont know of any distributors/manufactorers where i live. My dads an engineer so.. I'll ask him. TheOPA2111pk was like 25 bucks so if i could get that for free, it'd be great. And whats the difference between PDIP and DIP?


----------



## Gbjerke

Wow i just hooked up my ipod - LOD - p3+ - and a monster cable to go into the amplifier of my little bookshelf speaker system. And wow they sound like a new system^^


----------



## oldskoolboarder

You should have some local distributors somewhere that carry similar components. I know that the Atmel AVR group is based out of Trondheim near the school. I know those guys use analog components for their CPU boards. I know because I've been there...


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should have some local distributors somewhere that carry similar components. I know that the Atmel AVR group is based out of Trondheim near the school. I know those guys use analog components for their CPU boards. I know because I've been there..._

 

That's perfect I'll be dropping by in a couple of weeks. Is there a real chance that they will have the OPA2111?


----------



## Ricey20

I'm curious, whats the output voltage on the P3+?


----------



## jamato8

I am using the OPA211 in a Brown Dog adapter (2 chips) and the sound is very open. The bass is controlled. Just another chip that works well with the P3+.


----------



## SpudHarris

I am using OPA2111 in L/R Stacked (x2) + Hi-C Buf634's + LM6171's (CA) in G/V. I only sorted the buffers last night so have no idea how they will rape my batteries? The sound however IMO is very near comparable with my Solo! Not in terms of signature but SQ. I can't believe this little amp can give so much....


----------



## jamato8

The P3+ is extreme and for those who enjoy rolling opamps, like I like to roll tubes in my amps, it is a dream and offers much. Ground channel choice with a choice of configuration for this, the buffer section and then the opamp section. A nice Alps pot and large value resistors (for a portable) allows you to so much out of the sound. No, run time with everything maxed won't be great but you also have the option of use the external power supply and you could upgrade that!


----------



## SpudHarris

Well after listening for a few hours with the above chipset it is apparent thet I'm getting a fair bit of siblance with my W3's. Without the stacked Buffers it's fine but the sound is slightly less airy and less dynamic.

 I have now gone back to basics (well almost) I'm working my way through all my L/R favourites but with Hi-C buffers and G/V with blanks. I guess I'm hearing most of them for the 1st time without an OpAmp in ground and I'm pleasantly surprised. Just goes to show, more sometimes isn't better.

 My favourite OpAmp of the moment is the LME49722 which is just perfect - To my ears anyhow.

 John, I have a custom built PSU for the P3 it's 12v am I still ok to use it with the P3+? I have a niggling doubt that I can't (something to do with a polarity change in one of the caps?)


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well after listening for a few hours with the above chipset it is apparent thet I'm getting a fair bit of siblance with my W3's. Without the stacked Buffers it's fine but the sound is slightly less airy and less dynamic.

 I have now gone back to basics (well almost) I'm working my way through all my L/R favourites but with Hi-C buffers and G/V with blanks. I guess I'm hearing most of them for the 1st time without an OpAmp in ground and I'm pleasantly surprised. Just goes to show, more sometimes isn't better.

 My favourite OpAmp of the moment is the LME49722 which is just perfect - To my ears anyhow.

 John, I have a custom built PSU for the P3 it's 12v am I still ok to use it with the P3+? I have a niggling doubt that I can't (something to do with a polarity change in one of the caps?)_

 

Polarity change in a cap? The power supply, if center pin + would be fine but I would check with iBasso to make sure the 12 volts will step down ok. The P3+ works on a 9 volt wallwart or the 6 AAA batteries, which at full charge are around 8.8 volts. Now if the P3+ can handle the 12volts, great but I would check first. 3 volts isn't much but I don't know the tolerance of the P3+.


----------



## SpudHarris

I'll drop Ryuzoh a line I can get a faster response from him than ibasso.


----------



## Gbjerke

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when i put the BUF634's in, it sounded quite baffled, i just put them directly in there. Could just be my source/phones though.


----------



## SpudHarris

What are you using in L/R & V/G?


----------



## jamato8

No you can't use the 12 volt DC. The power supply cap is a 10 volts and you would blow the cap.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thats what I thought. But in the P3 they are 6.3v but in series?


----------



## jamato8

They wouldn't be in series, well they could, but that isn't practical as that halves the capacitance. I would have to look at the circuit.


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you using in L/R & V/G?_

 

AD797 in G/V and 827 in L/R, i know u recomended the BUF634 with the OPA2111, but still there was someone else, on a different thread suggesting BUF634 with 827. To me it was better with the transistor buffers.


----------



## jamato8

I like the transistor buffers. To my ear they sound cleaner and more open.


----------



## SpudHarris

Yeah the Buf634's don't suit every OpAmp and I only use them in Hi-C.

 I like the AD827 but found it very scratchy (DC offset?) with certain chip combo's.

 I am enjoying L/R OpAmps with dummy adapters in G/V. I think I've been missing the way the OpAmps are supposed to sound. I'm on OPA211's now and I can't believe I said they were nothing special before.... They are just superb OpAmps, they have everything.


----------



## jamato8

What I often use at home for a pure and plentiful power supply to the P3+ is my Tekeon battery supply. I can dial it into 9 volts and when it is unplugged from the charging circuit I have pure battery power that works extremely well.


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I often use at home for a pure and plentiful power supply to the P3+ is my Tekeon battery supply. I can dial it into 9 volts and when it is unplugged from the charging circuit I have pure battery power that works extremely well._

 

Which tekkeon Battery supply do u use? I'm interested, and if you're at home, cant you just plug an AC adapter into the P3+ to recardge your rechardgables?


----------



## SpudHarris

The P3 and P3+ doesn't have charging capability so don't plug in an AC adapter!


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The P3 and P3+ doesn't have charging capability so don't plug in an AC adapter!_

 

What? Then why did mine came with one? Theres a 9v on the back and an AC adapter that would fit it. What's that for then? I can understand that you could get a battery pack for it, but why would they sen you an AC? Its from japan anyways, so ill have to solder an european socket on.

 The cable even has an adapter to make it 9v. Is this just included on the newer models?


----------



## jamato8

You can run it from batteries or a 9 volt wall adapter. I would go to the Tekkeon web site and see what they have available. I have the MP3450 with an adapter so I have two batteries in parallel. I didn't buy from Tekkeon though I searched on Ebay to get the best price.


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can run it from batteries or a 9 volt wall adapter. I would go to the Tekkeon web site and see what they have available. I have the MP3450 with an adapter so I have two batteries in parallel. I didn't buy from Tekkeon though I searched on Ebay to get the best price._

 

Does the adapter actually rechardge rechardgables or just power the amp while its plugged in? And how much more powere, on average does a chardge from the MP3450 give?


----------



## jamato8

There is no recharging circuit in the P3+. I am not sure of the run time from the Tekkeon but when two batteries are used there is about 3600mA of reserve.


----------



## Gbjerke

if it cant rechardge, do any of you know of a wall charger for 6 aaa? i only seem to find for4. Any store(not online) that have this, ive been to clahs olson already..^^


----------



## SpudHarris

How have you been running your P3+?

 Search e-bay. my batteries are 'Vapex' brand and I have a charger that takes 8 AAA's or 8 AA's, again 'Vapex' brand. The adapter you got with the P3+ is just a mains adapter to use instead of running your batteries, when you plug it in to your P3+ it disengages the internal batteries.


----------



## LionPlushie

jamato8. just wanna ask how is the P3+ compared with the Predator?


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamato8. just wanna ask how is the P3+ compared with the Predator?_

 

Its in his signature^^


----------



## LionPlushie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gbjerke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its in his signature^^_

 







 Huh? I'm asking for his comparison between those 2

 EDIT: oh i saw his mini ranking. lol

 then how about those 2 with the Xin Reference


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Huh? I'm asking for his comparison between those 2

 EDIT: oh i saw his mini ranking. lol

 then how about those 2 with the Xin Reference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I haven't listened to the Reference for a while and I don't have the latest, whatever that is. Also the Xin amps aren't being produced right now and there is zero communication so I am not sure what use it would be.


----------



## kaushama

Hi John
 How do you compare amp section of D10 against P3+? P3+ better?


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi John
 How do you compare amp section of D10 against P3+? P3+ better?_

 

I'd think that theyre pretty much the very same.


----------



## LionPlushie

so i guess its safe to get a P3+ since john rank it same as the blackbird :x

 so john, are there any special preference of opamps choices?


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi John
 How do you compare amp section of D10 against P3+? P3+ better?_

 

email ibasso.


----------



## jamato8

I will be honest here, well I always try to be. :^) There are so many variables with opamp choices that to pin one amp down or the other when around the corner seems to be another opamp/buffer choice that changes and possibly enhances the sound, making a statement as to which is better is difficult. 

 I will say that the P3+ is consistently very good and a solid performer. It has very high quality parts in the Alps pot and good caps and resistors and with a higher voltage there is a benefit. With all that there is still the option of changing the opamps in the D10 and P3+ so the changes are fluid in that pinning one or the other down is difficult. Also, my D10 now has all the best in the Black Gate caps and this improved the sound but I still enjoyed the sound of the D10 very much but for comparison sake, my comparisons aren't totally valid. 

 I think a number of the top amps starts to boil down to preference not really that one is in a different league, at this time anyway.

 And yes, I think emailing iBasso on their amps is good as they will give you an honest opinion of which amp they think is the best option and then the best sound.


----------



## HiFlight

Well said, John! There truly is no "best" combination, as everyone hears differently. Upstream and downstream components also affect the sound, and everything must well-matched for best results. 

 As always, I suggest new owners spend a good bit of time listening to the stock opamps that iBasso ships installed in the D10 and P3 in order to develop a feel for the native sound of the device. You have the rest of your life to roll opamps!!!


----------



## Cahayahati3105

I am a newbie here..anyone already try the combination P3+ and IE8??How about the SQ resulted??


----------



## SpudHarris

I did for a while....

 The thing to remember is that rolling OpAmps is great but some combinations will suit (or not) some phones better than others. The P3+ is capable of such definition with the right chipset that I felt the IE8's were holding it back. I found the darker signature more difficult to pair.

 The IE8's are superb and I'm sure with enough experimenting you could find a chipset to make them absolutely sing but for now (until JH13's get here) the W3's offer everything I need and sound great with many, many different combinations of OpAmps.

 Just my 2 cents....


----------



## R124L

sorry am newbie, 
 where i can buy OPA2111?
 what best compotition opamp for P3+???
 thanks.


----------



## SpudHarris

Farnell is always good. Where do you live?

 Best combination (by far) is using that chip strangely enough in L/R with stacked buffers and OPA627's in Ground, veeeeeeery nice (thanks for the combo Ryuzoh).


----------



## Mad Max

Also try Newark =]

 eBay is good, if you are in the US and buy from US sellers.


----------



## koshinki

this is my new toy... happy with it...


----------



## prone2phone

is it possible to find such opamps so that p3 outputs 18volts with low current and lasts 300 hours?


----------



## SpudHarris

The P3+ is 9v and putting anything more through it will damage components. I had a custom 12v PSU made for my P3 and couldn't use it on the P3+ because of frying the Electrolitic Caps.

 If you want raw power from a portable (good enough also as home amp) get yourself a 24v Fi-Quest, the second batch should be out in a month or so.


----------



## jamato8

Yep, the only one I know of is the Lisa III and the fi.Quest. The fi.Q has many, many options and sounds the best of all I have heard. I can work as a home or portable amp. And decent current and plenty of voltage at 300 hours?? There ain't no free ride. Nuclear powered might do it though but you might have a hard time getting through airport screening.


----------



## prone2phone

I just saw that meyer 3move can boost voltage to 18volts on high gain and draws 18ma and works really long, up to 100 hours on 9volt setting, but i am not sure i understand. if meyer amp had same batteries as p3, it could work for 3000hours or not? (6 aaa batteries with 1000mah=6000mah vs 200mah on one 9volt battery). and isn't it possible to convert current to voltage?


----------



## SpudHarris

They are what they are........


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just saw that meyer 3move can boost voltage to 18volts on high gain and draws 18ma and works really long, up to 100 hours on 9volt setting, but i am not sure i understand. if meyer amp had same batteries as p3, it could work for 3000hours or not? (6 aaa batteries with 1000mah=6000mah vs 200mah on one 9volt battery). and isn't it possible to convert current to voltage?_

 

The batteries are in series. When in series the mA does not change so you still have 1000mA of reserve to use. If in parallel then you would have a greater mA reserve but only 1.5 volts or so.


----------



## prone2phone

mm. thanks for info, that means iBasso D4 is more powerful in stock config. than p3+


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mm. thanks for info, that means iBasso D4 is more powerful in stock config. than p3+_

 

For stock amplifiers, yes, that is correct, however the P3+ can easily be modified to a higher output current by selection of different buffer and ground opamps. It is a very fine amplifier design with high-grade components.


----------



## prone2phone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For stock amplifiers, yes, that is correct, however the P3+ can easily be modified to a higher output current by selection of different buffer and ground opamps. It is a very fine amplifier design with high-grade components._

 

ok, and what about higher output voltage swing instead of higher current?


----------



## nickyboyo

Just a quick report on the p3+ with 627's,634's and 2111- it does indeed sound very nice. I am a little bit worried though- i'm not sure whether or not it is my imagination but the amp does seem to be getting hot, i will have to have a listen with the amp board outside of the case, also the amp seems scratchy when i first start listening to it with the output taking a few minutes to settle in and give a clean signal to both channels. I think i may of fried one or two of the buf634's while soldering the legs up on the stack- if this is the case, would this condition account for the sound i am hearing on start up??

 Everything seems to have moments of wonderful clarity and great extension, especially in the bass, well through the whole range to be honest.

 Thanks for your assistance spud, sorry it took me so long to post my thanks, but this is the first chance i have had to play since our last conversation and receiving the bits and bobs.

 Any help or advice with the problem i have described above will be appreciated.


----------



## brendon

I am using the AD8066 in the L+R with the Buf634s in the buffer sockets and a single LMH6643 in the ground. The sound is very smooth with some nice detailed bass. 

 With this combo, my amp heats up a bit and its not the best on battery life. But I am on rechargables so its not a big issue.


----------



## Palpatine

I like my LD Mk 1 +, but I really wish I would have sprung for the P3+ for the opamp rolling ability. I'll upgrade one day!


----------



## knights

p3+ is coming.... i dont have time to test every chip combos for now... for those who have Sen IE8, can you recommend best combo (bundled chips) that is suited for this IEM... Thanks a lot...


----------



## jamato8

I would let it burn in and get the capacitors formed. I enjoy the P3+ as it came stock but as you note, there are many combinations. For a small size the + offers many options to explore your perception of what sound you want. HiFlight can also give you some good ideas on op amp combinations.


----------



## knights

Thanks....
 Hows the stock combo sound? is it the most neutral combination?


----------



## brendon

IMHO its not. I really encourage you to try out different combos for yourself. Let your ears be the best judge.

 The combo I finally settled for gelled very well with the Re1s but did not do so hot with the HD650. So try different permutations and combinations from the set of OPAMPs that you got and see what you like. Just take care that you put the pins properly else you could destroy your OPAMP.


----------



## bassboysam

I just got my P3+ and I am a total noob with OPAMPS and Buffers etc. My manual says that the P3+ ships with 2 dummy adapters. Do I need to replace these dummy adapters before using the amp? And which ones are the dummy adapters?


----------



## shigzeo

I ordered one of these too as I am deciding between the D4 and the P3 for keepers. I like the D4's 'DAC', but I wish it had optical. Very powerful.


----------



## brendon

^^ Sell both and get the D10 !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @bassboysam - There are many permutations and combination's for using the P3+. Most of them are good, some of them amazing and some of them are terrible.

 I suggest you go through this tread from the start and read what other combos other people have used.

 However to avoid blowing up anything keep the following cautionary points in mind and you will do fine -

 1. Place your OPAMPs properly as per the manual i.e. make sure the positive pin of the OPAMP (shown as a square or a dot) is connected as shown in the manual.

 2. Only the AD797 OPAMP is a single channel OPAMP (connection is different as per the manual). The remaining OPAMPs are all dual channel and needs to be connected differently as per the manual.

 3. Make sure the amp is off when changing OPAMPs.

 4. READ THE MANUAL (most important !)


----------



## bassboysam

If I use Dual in L/R then do all the others have to be Dual? Also if you are in Single do you have to use the same OPAMP or Buffer in that channel?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bassboysam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I use Dual in L/R then do all the others have to be Dual? Also if you are in Single do you have to use the same OPAMP or Buffer in that channel?_

 

If you use a dual-channel opamp in L/R, it will go in the center and only one is used. The outside sockets for single-channel are unused. Whether you use single or dual channels in L/R does not affect the buffers or ground. 

 If you are using single channel opamps (and buffers) they should both be the same, otherwise you will hear differences between the channels. 

 There are many good combinations that are possible with the opamps included in the kit. Just make sure you work carefully and follow the guidelines listed in the prior post.


----------



## bassboysam

Can anyone recommend a good combination to increase the bass response? I found the stock setup to sound a little too bright for my phones (grados). I tried replacing the transistor buffs with the BUF634 and that helped mellow out the sound a bit but the bass, although very clear, is lacking impact.

 Also which ones are the dummy buffers? and what are the boards with just solder and no "chip"?


----------



## brendon

^^ Again I would encourage you to try out some permutations and combinations yourself to see what to change. IMHO its pretty easy to fiddle with the amp as there is no soldering required. 

 I believe of all the OPAMPs included the AD8066 is pretty bassy. Try that combo with different buffers and a different ground OPAMP like the LMH6643 (in dual configuration) in the ground. However let your ears be the best judge. The combo I liked the most was not used by anyone else so experimenting is the best way !


----------



## knights

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use a dual-channel opamp in L/R, it will go in the center and only one is used. The outside sockets for single-channel are unused. Whether you use single or dual channels in L/R does not affect the buffers or ground. 

 If you are using single channel opamps (and buffers) they should both be the same, otherwise you will hear differences between the channels. 

 There are many good combinations that are possible with the opamps included in the kit. Just make sure you work carefully and follow the guidelines listed in the prior post._

 

whats the most neutral combo according to your ears?


----------



## bassboysam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brendon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ Again I would encourage you to try out some permutations and combinations yourself to see what to change. IMHO its pretty easy to fiddle with the amp as there is no soldering required. 

 I believe of all the OPAMPs included the AD8066 is pretty bassy. Try that combo with different buffers and a different ground OPAMP like the LMH6643 (in dual configuration) in the ground. However let your ears be the best judge. The combo I liked the most was not used by anyone else so experimenting is the best way ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks but can you tell me which ones are the dummy buffers? and what are the boards with just solder and no "chip"?


----------



## SpudHarris

The Dummies are the ones with a very tiny SMD resitor on the top, the ones with nothing on are for your own use so you can buy a chip or chips yourself and solder up.

 If you are still not 100% sure let us know and I'll try and post a pic....


----------



## bassboysam

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ummyopamps.jpg

 this is not the dummy buffer correct?

 BTW, thanks for all the help. Tubes I understand, this is a whole other world.


----------



## shigzeo

Well, I have to agree that this amp is special. I am just configuring it for IEM use at the moment, so my primary concern is personal, but mostly, negation of hiss.

 The stock P3+ is a hissy badass. With OPA2111kp *1 in the L/R channel, BB 634p *2 buffers and a dummie in VG, there is very very little hiss - about as much as the iPod touch 2G, so less than any portable amp I've ever used. Lots of detail and a sizeable 'stage' with great separation. I have not spent much time assessing battery life etc., but for iems, this is great.

 My ears are very sensitive to hiss and my iem of choice, the FitEar 333 is more sensitive than any custom I've used. It picks up more hiss and fit than Brad Pitt. Well, this configuration is great. Will be doing more tests to confirm it is stable and of course, take suggestions as to how to make it better. So far though, other than a slight heavy hand to certain bass, this is a great setup.


----------



## SpudHarris

I use that configuration but with OPA627 (dual module) in G/VG. It's the absolute best combo, so much so I haven't rolled chips in the P3+ for about 3 months. This combo is everything I need, although there is slight hiss with most IEM's it soon dissapears when the tunes are flowin'


----------



## shigzeo

I will have to try dual 627 in G/VG. The reason I left it blank is hiss. With the Dummy, there is next to none. But lovelly indeed and quite simple.


----------



## SpudHarris

On the flip side I will have to try the dummies...... Let us know what you think.


----------



## shigzeo

Well, I've gotten no further, but this amp is fast becoming my favourite mid-size portable. The FiQuest is my favourite for a variety of things, and the ALO Rx for brute forcing IEMs, and the Voyager for large headphones. But iBasso have got really multi-talented amps and I am fully in love. Yes, I will be going for the balanced amp when it comes out!


----------



## M3NTAL

has anyone tried a HDAM in the sockets? Is there enough voltage for such a thing?


----------



## Mad Max

Only one way to find out.


----------



## tamu

Just pulled the trigger on a p3 after reading the forums. I used to have a headsix and I thought the opamp rolling is a major benefit over it plus the accesories included. 
 I used to find headsix very natural but using my k271 I couldnt hear any bass. Cant wait to receive the P3! as I read earlier in this thread Im going to give the default setup some time before rolling chips.
 Also got a noob question; I already have 1000mah batteries. Does it matter if I mix the different mah values? My logic says it shouldnt be a problem but just to be sure..
 thanks


----------



## jamato8

You can mix them but you won't get a run time of the 1000mA batteries unless they are all the same mA.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Hi guys, does anyone know if the p3+ can use 3.7v li-ion AAA batteries? The reason I ask is I want to drive 600 ohm phones and use rechargeable batteries for convenience. 
 All rechargeable AAA batteries are 1.2v (except li-ion 3.7v) which is less than regular alkaline AAA of 1.5v which the amp is designed for, so the amp will be outputting less power with regular rechargeable AAA. 

 So will 3.7v work, if yes will it actually increase the power output of the amp or does the amp just regulate the voltage down to 1.5v?

 I've already asked ibasso, but they are taking their time to reply...

 cheers


----------



## shigzeo

I don't know, but 'driving' seems to be relative around these parts. I find the P3+ to drive my DT880 600Ω very well, even for incredibly dynamic music like, for instance, trance. By drive, what do you mean? I get great volume even out of an iPod touch, but the P3+ allows me to fiddle a few controls to make the Beyers sound... more liquidy.


----------



## HiFlight

Do not use 3.7v cells, as there are components inside the P3+ that are not rated for voltages that will total as high as those cells will provide. There is not a regulatory circuit inside to limit the supply voltage.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the P3+ to drive my DT880 600Ω very well, even for incredibly dynamic music like, for instance, trance._

 

That's good to know, can I ask what batteries you use in your P3+? I'm wanting to drive my DT990 600Ω so the result should be similar to yours. I also listen to trance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do not use 3.7v cells, as there are components inside the P3+ that are not rated for voltages that will total as high as those cells will provide. There is not a regulatory circuit inside to limit the supply voltage._

 

Ok, I thought that would be the case, I'll probably just use eneloops. By the way Highflight, what is your recommended buffer/opamp setup to acheive maximum power output as well as best SQ? I think I read a post of yours somewhere about using BUF634 but I don't know what opamp setup exactly is best.

 Lastly, what op/buff setup gives the most tube like amp sound as I've heard Beyer phones are great with tubes but average with SS amps.

 cheers


----------



## HiFlight

Well, I don't think the P3+ really lacks in power with any of the opamps included in the rolling kit, but some changes in the LR and ground channels can really enhance the sound of the amp. There are very noticeable changes when using the V vs the G sockets. 

 I personally like the OPA2142 in LR. THS4032 sounds very good in the center ground socket, and can output comparable power to the 797s. 

 As the amp is limited to the use of single-channel opamps for buffers, I haven't strayed too far from the included ones. I have on hand several good single-channel LT opamps that should work well as buffers, but have not had much time to devote to trying them all. The problem is that with all the possible combinations of single and dual channel opamps that are possible in the P3+, it would be about a full-time job to evaluate all of these combinations as all interact to some degree. 

 The transistor buffers from iBasso also do a good job, but do not have the tube-like sound of the 797s. They are more analytical. 

 If one really likes a tube-like presentation, the LTC6241HV used in LR (center socket) and AD797 as buffers is about as close as one can come to a tube amp.


----------



## SpudHarris

Ryuzoh who is the guy behind the astounding Fi-Quest amp came up with a chip set that I recommend to anyone. The P3+ with this set up sounds like an amp that would cost substantially more than it does, punching way above it's weight.

 If you don't mind spending a little then the results are well worth the outlay.

 OPA2111KP or prefereably 'AM' in L/R
 BUF634's x2 stacked in buffer section
 OPA627's in G/VG

 I also listen to Trance (mostly ambient/morning but some progressive) and this is very suited.


----------



## chesterqw

hello guys,
 an update for my Ibasso P3 heron non+ version

 ADA4627-1 in L/R + dummy buffer + LME49720 in ground
 sounds awesome to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 not sure it was posted or not but 17 pages to look thru is no joke.


----------



## ihyan2

Hi there

 I want toe p3+ to sound close to a tube amp as possible. Following Hi-flight advice i put AD797 in the buffers however when i see the list of location that comes in the manual it says blank when AD797 fits in the buffer. 
 I installed it and the amp works fine but is this safe? As AD797 is an opamp but is placed in the buffer??


----------



## nickyboyo

Good day ihyan2, the 797's are fine to use as buffers. I use the 2111/627 set up as spud suggests above, except with the 797's as buffers- it sounds fantastic. It drives my MS-1's beautifully and even manages to cope with my Akg K701's very well indeed.

 You can't go wrong with Spud or Ron's advice, the 2111/627 set up with either the transistorised or stacked BUF634 buffers all sound amazing. But, the 797 in the buffer section is my favourite.

 This amp is so good, and when you add in the replaceable battery factor, it makes for an excellent portable amp.

 PS- Spud, my first visit to this site for a couple of months, thank you for your pm- if you can still pick up the chip at that price please put one aside for me and drop me another message mate. Good to see there is still a lot of love for this superb amp out there.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

So I've ordered the p3+ from ibasso 3 days ago, but they haven't given me conformation of my purchase or any info on shipping ect. All I got was the Paypal confirmation email that I've paid. Is this normal not to receive any info from iBasso? How long do they usually take to ship their products?

 cheers


----------



## brendon

I feel you should try giving them a call or mail. They took all of 20 minutes to reply to my mails and I got the P3+ in just 3 days after paying them. I was very happy with the service.


----------



## tamu

I ordered mine on a tuesday and didnt hear back till friday.. I would say wait a bit more
 It took 1 week from ordering to receiving my p3+


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS- Spud, my first visit to this site for a couple of months, thank you for your pm- if you can still pick up the chip at that price please put one aside for me and drop me another message mate. Good to see there is still a lot of love for this superb amp out there._

 

I think I can still get them...... if I can't I can always let you have one of mine as I got a stash due to them being so fine and such an amazing price. I must try the 797's as buffers, never even thought of that as they can be a bit picky as opamps. I'm on hol's at the moment but drop me a pm later and we'll sort you the OPA2111AM for sure.

 I have my Fi-quest and P3+ with me so will try the 797's when I get back to the challet later (also bought all my opamps, my HD650's and other audio stuff away with me, sad git that I am). I'm catching up on Head-fi in an internet cafe...


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Got my new P3+ and its an awesome little amp! Can someone give a me a low down on what the best opamp configurations are with the STOCK opamps? A shortlist of known goodies would be nice!


----------



## tamu

ad797 @ 3&4
 trans buffs 
 827 @ 1&2
 is what Im using


----------



## _Stooge_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *T.R.A.N.C.E.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my new P3+ and its an awesome little amp! Can someone give a me a low down on what the best opamp configurations are with the STOCK opamps? A shortlist of known goodies would be nice!_

 

After a good week or two of fiddling with the amp ive found ad8066 in 1/2 - transistor BUFS - and ad797's in 3/4 to be my favorite with my ath-ad2000s.


----------



## cooperpwc

Oddly, having done a wide sweep of Hong Kong headphone audio, including the major Mongkok stores and malls, this was not to be found anywhere. Meier and RSA are well distributed, and I spent some quality time with the Pico. However iBasso, which is manufactured just across the border, was absent excxept for the D10 at one shop. Too bad, I might have had fun playing with a P3+...


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

I've found my favorite setup after trying all the combination's I could muster with the stock opamps:

 L/R- AD712 or AD827 couldn't pick between the two, both had their good points. Overall 827 has better definition though.
 BUF- 634P x2 (transistor buf also works but is more analytical and less warm)
 G/V- AD797 x2 (love these as g/v haven't found a better option yet)

 So its pretty similar to some of you guys setups, looks like we've found a keeper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 very nice warm sound while maintaining extreme definition and great soundstage. I found this setup to have the punchiest bass (most other setups felt like they had "more" bloated bass). I'm using Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm though, so I wouldn't know if the setup would work for everyone.

 If any one else also finds other great setups with stock amps please post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll be trying AD797 as Buffers next even tho it isn't stated you can in the manual, hiflight has said it works, so try it out


----------



## brendon

^^ I was using the very same combo only last week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However I have just got the top kit from Hiflight and it sounds still better. Will update after I try a few permutations and combinations with the new OPAMPS.

 Tweaking the P3+ sound is really fun ! There are so many different OPAMP combinations out there.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brendon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ I was using the very same combo only last week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However I have just got the top kit from Hiflight and it sounds still better. Will update after I try a few permutations and combinations with the new OPAMPS.

 Tweaking the P3+ sound is really fun ! There are so many different OPAMP combinations out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

what does the kit come with? I could do with some better opamps. I guess I'll PM HiFlight.


----------



## ihyan2

Hi All

 My P3+ has been acting strange lately.
 My setup i using 827L/R, Ad797 Buffer, and Dummy adaptors in the G/V. Basically the stock set I just changed the AD797 in the buffers. 
 I was listening on it yesterday, and suddenly there was a loud pop and the sound became very soft with a lot of white noise/electronic noise. I came back to my home, checked the batteries and noted that 2 out of 6 was flat, which is strange. Am using sony rechargeable batteries. I always charged them together although using 2 different chargers. As 1 charger max capacity is 4 batteries.
 Charged the 2 batteries, as the other 4 still has about 80% charge, tested using a battery tester. I have also checked using the AC power/adapter where the P3+ was working fine.
 Used all the 6 batteries and noted that as I increased the volume above 8-9 O clock there was this horrible white/electronic noise creeping in which was not there before hand. Is it because of the differential charge between the 2 batteries having 100% charge and the rest about 80% charge? Or something else? I will recharge the other 4 batteries later on when am back at home. I hope when the loud pop happened yesterday it didn't damage anything on the P3+.
 Any ideas?

 Thanks a lot guys.


----------



## Mad Max

Must be something else that's faulty.


----------



## HiFlight

I would suggest for starters to replace all 6 batteries with fresh alkalines, then change the opamps so some other configuration that is completely different, not using the ones that are in the amp now. 

 If this clears up the problem, you can start working your way through the batteries and opamps to find which is problematic. 

 Please post your findings, as the P3 amps are pretty bulletproof.


----------



## ihyan2

Lo and behold, its the batteries. I changed them all 6 to alkalines to test if its all fine when I was outside, didn't have any spare at home. And it worked like charm. Went back home again took out the battery tester and found out that out of 6 one was flat. This is very peculiar, am charging that single battery see if its faulty, aka unable to hold charge. Am using Sony' cycle energy batteries by the way.

 Now looking for suggestions, as I have an AD827 in the L/R, AD797s in the buffers and the dummy adapters in the G/V any suggestions for opamps to be used on the G/V? I liked the AD827 and the AD797 as is...


----------



## HiFlight

Glad it was something simple! You might consider using the Eneloop rechargeables. They are excellent for portable use.
 They have very little self-discharge, retaining approx. 85% of full charge after a year. I have never had one fail. I use them in all of my portable players, wireless devices, and cameras.


----------



## _Stooge_

Has anyone noticed a very slight channel imbalance in their amp? Seems to me that the left channel is just a little bit louder than right, but its not really noticable past a certain volume. Ive concluded its most likely the amp because at the lowest volumes the left side will make noise before the right kicks in. But like i said, at normal listening levels it almost nonexistant.


----------



## jamato8

At low volumes this can often occur. I haven't found it to be a problem at listening levels that are normal. My amp is well balanced but small differences in the attenuation at the start of the low setting is common. I know that iBasso throws out quite a number of the pots when testing to make sure they get the best match possible, which a number of manufactures do, though some do not.


----------



## ihyan2

First time i installed op-amp in the G/V setting, was using the dummies previously. Noticed a very distinct increase in noise, is this true for all op-amps to be placed in G/V? Meaning will it increase noise?
 Using AD827 L/R and 797 in buffs.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ihyan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First time i installed op-amp in the G/V setting, was using the dummies previously. Noticed a very distinct increase in noise, is this true for all op-amps to be placed in G/V? Meaning will it increase noise?
 Using AD827 L/R and 797 in buffs._

 

why don't you try a few different setups and see?

 If you haven't already I recommend AD827 L/R, BUF634P Buffs, AD797 G/V. It will sound similar to what you have now but definition, sound stage and bass will noticeably improve, it did to my ears and I've tried your setup plus most others possible with stock setup. If you want a more clinical sound then switch the Buff 634 for transistor buffs but keep the rest the same as recommended.


----------



## ihyan2

Hi T.R.A.N.C.E Just tried your recommended setup. Really liking it goes one deeper and opens up the sound stage. Small amount of hiss with the UM3X but ill run it first see if the hiss gets better.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ihyan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First time i installed op-amp in the G/V setting, was using the dummies previously. Noticed a very distinct increase in noise, is this true for all op-amps to be placed in G/V? Meaning will it increase noise?
 Using AD827 L/R and 797 in buffs._

 

Unless you are using a dual-channel opamp in the center ground socket, you will need to have a single-channel opamp in either the G or V socket with a dummy opamp or single-channel opamp in the opposite side. In other words, you cannot leave an empty G or V socket.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ihyan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi T.R.A.N.C.E Just tried your recommended setup. Really liking it goes one deeper and opens up the sound stage. Small amount of hiss with the UM3X but ill run it first see if the hiss gets better._

 

Have you changed the GAIN to 0 yet? The amp comes stock with gain at 10.5 and 0 would be better for the UM3x. So if gain is at 10.5 that would be the reason for the hiss (but yeah there will still always be some hiss regardless with the setup I recommended)


----------



## nickyboyo

I just have to comment, the combined set up suggested by Ron and Spud -2111's (all i have to do now is pick the metal can version from Spud
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) in L/R, 797's in the buffer section and 627's in the G/VG is just amazing. 
 My rig at the moment is a Sony S639F, the P3+ and a pair of Alessandro MS-1's plus one of webbie's silver interconnects (very nice it is to mate!). It is hard to believe the value of this set up and the enjoyment and fulfillment gained from just listening to the music.
 This amp rocks, but on a side note- i did have a listen to webbie's D10 maxed out amp (nice work J), and i would be very interested to see what effect blackgating the P3+ would have on the sound. Not that this is a matter of urgency, as in stock mode with this chip set-up the amp is very nice nice indeed.


----------



## SpudHarris

nickyboyo YGPM


----------



## SpudHarris

Ok, I finally got around to trying the AD797BRZ's in Buffer position and yet again this little amp amazes me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Surely this is as good as it gets. This little amp punches soooo far above it's weight, bang for buck it's just unbeatable.

 797's in buffer position is the way to go, thanks nickyboyo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has the OPA2111AM landed yet?


----------



## koshinki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I finally got around to trying the AD797BRZ's in Buffer position and yet again this little amp amazes me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Surely this is as good as it gets. This little amp punches soooo far above it's weight, bang for buck it's just unbeatable.

 797's in buffer position is the way to go, thanks nickyboyo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has the OPA2111AM landed yet?_

 

wait wait wait.. i'm lost!!! haha
 if u use the AD797 in buffer socket, then whr can i find the 627? is it inside the kits set? i can't find this, need to purchase separately? 

 can u please post a clear photo for this? easy for "amp idiot" like me.... 

 thanks


----------



## koshinki

now i'm using trance's setup....AD827 L/R, BUF634P Buffs, AD797 G/V,but using the 10.5db, need to change to zero db??? 

 just want to try the 797 in buffer, but cannot find the 627 in the kits set..


----------



## SpudHarris

You won't. The OPA2111AK or KP and the OPA627's will have to be purchased as they are not part of the rolling kit.


----------



## koshinki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You won't. The OPA2111AK or KP and the OPA627's will have to be purchased as they are not part of the rolling kit._

 

oh no!!! spend money again... 
 anyone can provide me the link to purchase this?


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh no!!! spend money again... 
 anyone can provide me the link to purchase this?_

 

well it depends on where you live, but alot of people use farnell.com they have a website for a few diff countries with free shipping. Just go to their site and search a part number eg OPA2111KP.

 Also if your using low impedance IEM's/canalphones then it is probably better to use 0db gain for a clearer signal.


----------



## koshinki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *T.R.A.N.C.E.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well it depends on where you live, but alot of people use farnell.com they have a website for a few diff countries with free shipping. Just go to their site and search a part number eg OPA2111KP.

 Also if your using low impedance IEM's/canalphones then it is probably better to use 0db gain for a clearer signal._

 


 thks for the link. 

 i.m using the YUIN PK1. this is "low impedance"???


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thks for the link. 

 i.m using the YUIN PK1. this is "low impedance"???_

 

ah, no. The PK1 is high impedance because it is 150 ohm so stick to 10.5db gain. Most phones 150 ohm and above are considered high impedance.

 Most portables are low impedance, eg the PK2 and PK3 are low impedance as they are 16 and 32 ohm. So I was just assuming you had a low impedance phone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also you can still try 797 in buffers, just leave 827 in l/r and use anything you want in GV (any opamp or buffer that comes with the stock p3 can be used in g/v) I tried it using the buff634, transistors, lmh6655 in g/v and didn't like any of them much at...


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## koshinki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *T.R.A.N.C.E.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ah, no. The PK1 is high impedance because it is 150 ohm so stick to 10.5db gain. Most phones 150 ohm and above are considered high impedance.

 Most portables are low impedance, eg the PK2 and PK3 are low impedance as they are 16 and 32 ohm. So I was just assuming you had a low impedance phone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

okok.. thanks for all the info...


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## koshinki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okok.. thanks for all the info..._

 

i'm new in this amp and sound.. but i realized the original set of opamps nicer than put in the 643 and 797 in. i feel that too warm (i hope i use the correct terms) when using my pk1. don't knw what's went wrong...


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm new in this amp and sound.. but i realized the original set of opamps nicer than put in the 643 and 797 in. i feel that too warm (i hope i use the correct terms) when using my pk1. don't knw what's went wrong... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

fair enough, don't use the 797 then, as its fairly warm wherever its placed. Just experiment and find a setup you like. For a neutral sound its hard to beat the stock setup though.


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## koshinki

the G/L and buffer socket, can change the component to each others? just like u mentioned the 797 in G/L, but if i want to put the 797 in buffer, then the 643 in G/L, ok? or put the transistor to the G/L??? 

 sorry for the idiot questions...


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## koshinki

1 more problem, when i adjust my volume in the heron, i can hear some "distortion" sound (sorry, i used funny term again) from my earphone, is only right side of my pk1. do u all have the same prob?


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the G/L and buffer socket, can change the component to each others? just like u mentioned the 797 in G/L, but if i want to put the 797 in buffer, then the 643 in G/L, ok? or put the transistor to the G/L??? 

 sorry for the idiot questions..._

 

yes you can do those things, but not in all cases are opamps interchangeable with other sockets. Have you got the p3+ manual? It tells you exactly where each opamp and buffer can be placed...
 Here is the manual: http://www.ibasso.com/download/2010222231650.pdf

 The only mistake in the manual is that they do not mention that 797 can be used in buffer socket, but it can safely be used there.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1 more problem, when i adjust my volume in the heron, i can hear some "distortion" sound (sorry, i used funny term again) from my earphone, is only right side of my pk1. do u all have the same prob?_

 

I have the same problem, I'm not sure if its either how the p3+ is designed or the result of an opamp combo that causes the hissing at volume change. Either way it doesn't affect music playback so its not a big deal.


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## brendon

I dont know if any one else has this issue but I have having severe incompatibility with the AD797. They work with only a handful of OPAMPs and cause severe distortion with more than 60% of all the OPAMPs I have used.


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## koshinki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *T.R.A.N.C.E.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes you can do those things, but not in all cases are opamps interchangeable with other sockets. Have you got the p3+ manual? It tells you exactly where each opamp and buffer can be placed...
 Here is the manual: http://www.ibasso.com/download/2010222231650.pdf

 The only mistake in the manual is that they do not mention that 797 can be used in buffer socket, but it can safely be used there.



 I have the same problem, I'm not sure if its either how the p3+ is designed or the result of an opamp combo that causes the hissing at volume change. Either way it doesn't affect music playback so its not a big deal._

 


 oh ok.. thanks for the link.. i had the manual.. the only thing was i nvr really read through the whole manual.. now i knw which component for which socket.. haha.. thanks again.. if i buy the op-amp from farnel or other shop, it come with the manual? what i worry is i buy, but don't knw how to install or use.. (of course i knw which is pin 1 in SOIC8, but as what i mentioned before, which is for buffer and which is for G/L. this really make me crazy.)


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## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koshinki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh ok.. thanks for the link.. i had the manual.. the only thing was i nvr really read through the whole manual.. now i knw which component for which socket.. haha.. thanks again.. if i buy the op-amp from farnel or other shop, it come with the manual? what i worry is i buy, but don't knw how to install or use.. (of course i knw which is pin 1 in SOIC8, but as what i mentioned before, which is for buffer and which is for G/L. this really make me crazy.)_

 

You must use only single-channel opamps in the buffer sockets. You can use single-channel opamps in V & L ground sockets, (the outside-most sockets) but you must use a dual-channel in the center ground socket. 

 Any SOIC case style opamp must be mounted to an SOIC>DIP adapter. 

 Also, if you are using only one single-channel opamp in either V or G, use a dummy in the other side. Don't leave an open socket in V or G.


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could let me know what a good Opamp set up would be specifically for increased treble amount and lessened bass amount (but I love punch).
  Cheers


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## brendon

I would implore you to try some OPAMP rolling yourself with the numerous OPAMP that you must have received along with the amp.
   
  The reason being is that there are other changes to the sound besides the normal bass/treble/mid changes. I found the OPAMP combos altered the soundstage, pace of the music (decay) and transparency.
   
  These changes are not very subtle so you should let your own ears decide which combo sounds best.


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## cardozo

Hi!
   
  Can I put resistors in the output of this amplifier? If so, where would I put them?
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter


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## koshinki

Hi, I'm back. this few months, after i got the nice info here, i actually listen my P3+ using the stock opamp which was came together with the package when i bought it, which is... 
  AD827 
 BUF- 634P x2 
 G/V- AD797 x2 
   
  now i decided to move further which was suggested here before, 
OPA2111KP in L/R, 
AD797 in buffer section 
OPA627 in the G/VG
   
  before i purchase the IC, i have some questions. 
  1/ how many pieces OPA2111KP i need? 1 or 2 pcs? How many pieces AD797 and OPA627? anybody using this setup can post a clear photo for me? 
  2/ i went through Farnell network in my country, basically i saw few OPA2111KP and OPA627. some of it from different supplier and the price different too.. i need to choose the expensive 1 or just grab the cheapest 1 will do? what is the difference? fyi, the OPA627, the price is 100% difference between the most expensive and the cheapest.. 
   
  http://sg.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=BAZDD5MUF3CNQCWNBBSBFYY?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=OPA2111KP&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=768313 
   
  http://sg.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=2CIP00A0T5ZQSCWNBBSBFYY?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=OPA627&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&displaytext=&_requestid=770125
   
   
  sorry for the stupid questions (RON and T.R.A.N.C.E. explained to me before but i still not so clear abt this) and
  thanks in advance


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## HiFlight

For the P3+, you will need (1) OPA2111 for LR, same socket as AD827,  (2) AD797 for buffers, they go in the position of the stock buffers and (1) OPA627.  The 627 will go in the center ground socket.  I would select the cheaper opamp for ground, as it does not affect the sound as much as the other opamps.  You might find that you would prefer the sound of another set of 797s for GV (as in stock) as they can output much more current than can the 627.   The LMH6655 also is an excellent choice for the center GV socket.  For the price of the 627, you could probably have 2 more 797s and a 6655, giving you the choice of several fine combinations.
  Ron


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





cardozo said:


> Hi!
> 
> Can I put resistors in the output of this amplifier? If so, where would I put them?
> 
> ...


 
  I can think of no reason at all to put resistors in the output of the P3+!


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## koshinki

hiflight said:


> For the P3+, you will need (1) OPA2111 for LR, same socket as AD827,  (2) AD797 for buffers, they go in the position of the stock buffers and (1) OPA627.  The 627 will go in the center ground socket.  I would select the cheaper opamp for ground, as it does not affect the sound as much as the other opamps.  You might find that you would prefer the sound of another set of 797s for GV (as in stock) as they can output much more current than can the 627.   The LMH6655 also is an excellent choice for the center GV socket.  For the price of the 627, you could probably have 2 more 797s and a 6655, giving you the choice of several fine combinations.
> 
> 
> Ron








 Thanks RON for the reply.


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## cardozo

Hi Ron!
   
  It's a simple answer: I own a Etymotic ER4P and I think the P to S adapter is a unnecessary unit. Thus, it would be great to put some resistors in Ibasso to not need to use this adapter.
   
  I'm really sorry for not having bought the S version in the first time...
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> I can think of no reason at all to put resistors in the output of the P3+!


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## knights

So, who still have this? After so much adventure in Audio setup, i still keep returning to P3+ because of versatility... Rollable op-amps + common battery is hard to beat... Just had a good combo of op-amps for my ie80...


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## jamato8

I have mine, just haven't used it much lately as I am using the DX100 most of the time.


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