# Sennnheiser HD 650 Upgrade: Silver Dragon V2 vs. Zu Mobius



## jornfin

Sennheiser HD 650 upgrade: Silver Dragon V2 vs. Zu Mobius 

 Setup

 Power supply: Shunyata Research cables and power line filter 
 Source: Densen Beat 400 XS CD-player (comparable to Meridian G8, Linn Ikemi) (spiked on Soundcare feet) 
 with…
 Amp: Pathos Classic One (hybrid amp) (spiked on Soundcare feet)
 Speakers: Dynaudio C1
 Speaker cables: Goertz Veracity AG2 (silver)
 or…
 Headphone amp: Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 (spiked on Soundcare feet)
 Interconnects: Goertz Alphacore Triode Quartz (silver) 
 Headphones: Sennheiser HD 650
 Headphone cables: Zu Mobius (much used for 1 year) vs. Moon Audio Silver Dragon Version 2 (burned in 100 hours)

 Music

 Acoustical music: The Be Good Tanyas, The Wailin’ Jennys, ave Carter and Tracy Grammer, Allan Taylor, John Gorka and others
 Rock etc: Billy Joel, Lucy Kaplansky, Bruce Springsteen and others
 Jazz: Keith Jarrett, Billy Holiday, Miles Davis acoustic and electric, Billy Haden and others
 Classical: Bach vocal and solo suites, Beethoven: violin and piano concerts, Schönberg chamber music

 The great Zu Mobius

 When I started doing my intensive listening through headphones about 4 years ago as a result of our first daughter being born, I started to look around for a set up that would come anywhere close to my amp – speaker set up. I came up with the X-Can V3 and the Sennheiser 600s. Those seemed to be the ultimate headphones; I couldn’t even imagine better cans. Nevertheless they were later traded in for the 650s which I found to be more musical and natural sounding, quite like Sennheiser had promised they would be. I then started looking for upgrade cables. I only got to listen to the Cardas and the Zu Mobius, others are not sold in Finland, where I live. The Mobius was as much better as the Cardas, as the Cardas was better than the stock cable. I have always loved it! 

 Why look for others?

 So why continue to look for others? Two reasons. One, this is a hobby, right? Two, much as I love the lush, natural warmth of the Zu, there was quite a bit of detail missing compared to my amp –speaker set up. I am not a nut for detail, getting all excited about hearing those fingers slip on the guitar strings at 1 minute 23 seconds into song x. But when entire instruments are missing (say, a banjo playing behind the guitar; a second voice in the background etc.), I am too far away from the live performance for me to be happy. What I would have wished for was a cable that would be as musically beautiful as the Zu, but commit fewer “sins of omission”. This could only be a silver cable.

 Why silver?

 Reading my way through a larger number of Headfi threads I was surprised at how many people seem to be opposed to silver cables, because of “their cold or hard or unnatural sound”. Well, all those reviews notwithstanding, a cable is a passive device. It does not have a “sound”. What really happens is this: Any signal that is sent from A to B (anywhere in this universe, above quantum level anyways) degrades on the way. You can amplify it, but that’s getting more of the same, it’s not making the signal any better. The difference between cables is not a sound of their own. It’s in the way the signal degrades as it passes through them. The loss of information experienced in a silver cable (compared to a copper cable of the same quality and build) is always smaller. 

 Why some people don’t like it

 Why then do so many people oppose silver? Well, digital sources are hardly ever musical. For less than 2000 dollars it is very, very, very difficult indeed to find a CD-player that does not sound aggressive, bright, cold, hard and/or in-your-face. Adjectives sound familiar? Yep, that’s it. With a source like that, copper can seem the better choice because of it’s very weakness – along with all the other information that is lost, you lose the information that makes the source aggressive, bright, cold, hard and/or in-your-face. 

 Two wrongs don’t make a right

 This may sound like a blessing, but it does mean you are hoping for two wrongs to make a right. The correct thing to do when experiencing aggressiveness, brightness etc, is to save up for a better source. Because what your source does not produce, can’t possibly be heard through speakers or headphones, either. I am not mocking people who have had less money to spend on a CD-player than I had. But headfi is full of people who are willing to trade in their headphone amp 3 times and their cans 4 times a year, always losing money, looking for a better sound and not getting it, because they are working on the wrong – the downstream – end of their chain. 

 Provided your source is musical and natural sounding, silver is the better choice nine times out of ten. The Zu Mobius is a silver coated copper cable. It had to be expected that a silver cable of similar build quality would provide the missing musical detail and sound better. So when Moon Audio came up with the Silver Dragon Version 2, I wanted to try it out. 

 Build quality

 With many high end enthusiasts, sound is the only thing that matters. They look down on anyone concerned with aesthetics, build quality or other aspects. Well, with a headphone cable I disagree, because its build alone affects how comfortable it is to listen and this will affect whether you do or don’t listen at all. For all my love of the Zu Mobius, the build quality is nothing to rave about. 1) It is so stiff I find it hard to coil it up without detaching it from the cans. I basically used to attach and then detach it every night. 2) In very dry weather (such as we get all winter, up here) the rough mantling often charges electrically against my carpet. As a result I get frequent light electrical shocks, as you do when taking off a woollen sweater. Not enough to electrocute me – but enough to annoy me. 3) The plugs don’t fit nearly as well as the original stock cable’s plugs. 

 The Silver Dragon V2 does better in every aspect. The plugs fit in just as snugly as the stock cable’s, the cable is highly flexible, easy to coil up without unplugging, it does not charge up electrically and, on top of everything else, looks very nice. In essence, it looks and feels a lot less home made than the Zu. 

 Sound

 First of all: I never listened to the cable before the 100 hour burn in period was over. Listening to cables (or components or speakers, for that matter), is like looking at a window with the blinds down. It does not tell you a thing about the view, or, in this case, the sound. The greatest high end products on earth can sound miserable before they are burned in. 

 Like the Zu, the Silver Dragon V2 is entirely silent. Even when I crank up the amp with no music playing, I get nothing but silence. 

 The SD did exactly what I had hoped it would do. It presented instruments and voices as beautifully as the Zu Mobius, but where the Zu seemed to reduce the music to its basic emotional components, the SD filled in the missing detail. This made each and every instrument and voice sound more genuine, more like real life. An acoustic guitar, a stand up bass, a voice, a bass drum whack, everything sounds more like it does when listened to live on stage. As a curious result, I started visualizing the instruments, almost seeing them on stage with my eyes closed. I never did that with the Zu, 

 The Zu creates a mental image of a dark stage, where different instruments are highlighted by a spot light here and there. With the SD, presenting more details also meant filling in the gaps and thereby connected the different parts of the musical performance to form a whole. The image is one of a well lit stage, all instruments visible all the time. Though I was putting on CDs I had listened to a lot during the last years, I was clearly hearing a lot of things for the first time.

 As I said, I always loved my Zu Mobius. While listening to the SD, all the improvements mentioned above where clearly discernible, but they seemed small, nevertheless. Would I want to give up one 250 dollar cable for a new 250 dollar cable because of these improvements? Well, the best test is to simply go back to the original cable and see do you miss the new one. It took me about 5 minutes to miss it, and badly! After getting used to the refined, more musically complete presentation of the Silver Dragon, the Zu suddenly seemed to give a crude, rough drawing, a sketch, rather than a an accurate and complete picture of the music as recorded. 

 Conclusion

 I am really excited about this cable. Comparing it to the Zu Mobius I would expect it to cost at least 150 dollars more, given the same length. But they actually are roughly the same price! This is clearly the best Sennheiser upgrade cable I have listened to. I keep rediscovering my CD collection, and what could be more fun! Moon Audio’s Drew recommends the cable for anyone who listens to classical music, jazz, acoustic music or any other kind that depends on detail. I have to agree that it is this kind of music that benefits the most. But I do not see any music not benefiting at all. 

 If you can trust your source to be non-fatiguing, non-aggressive, not hard or bright sounding; if it sounds musical and natural (in a word: analogue), than this is the cable you want to treat your Sennheisers, and yourself, to. In a very high quality set up, I finally have a headphone cable that matches the quality of the other components. 

 (And the Zu? I think I’ll keep it for my TV. Old friends are hard to part with. But as for music, there will only be one cable attached to my 650s. )


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## Gradofan2

[size=medium]*Ditto*[/size]... I think... not sure yet... but, I think so...

 I've got the Cardas, Zu and Senn v2 Black Silver cables with my HD600 & HD650's. 

 While the Zu is great with the HD650's (really transforms them) - adds speed, slam, PRat, detail, clarity, highs, pretty well eliminating the "veil"... on the other hand... the Senn v2 Black Silver cable really adds even greater clarity and detail, and seems to result in a bit brighter, more airy sound than the Zu. 

 From my perspective, the HD650's really need the greater speed, clarity, detail, and air that a silver cable provides, though it gives up just a bit of the bass / mids weight when compared to the Zu or Cardas - but the HD650's have a just a bit too much bass / mids weight anyway (with the stock, Cardas, or Zu cables).

 So... if you think the HD650's need a faster, lighter, clearer more detailed sound, you may prefer either the Silver Dragon, or Senn v2 Black Silver cables - but, if you're after a brighter sound, with clear fast, tight, solid bass, with a bit of warm weight in the bass and mids, then you'll love the Zu, or even the Cardas (although it doesn't provide quite the same level of detail, clarity and bright highs as the Zu adds). 

 And... the HD600's probably are a bit better with the Cardas, or Zu cables, which add some impact, and warm weight to the bass and mids - which the HD600's seem to benefit by (because they're sound inherently seems to be a bit, clearer, faster, brighter, more detailed, and airy than the HD650's).

 Or... as all really sic Headfi types... you may want both - the Zu for Rock, and some types of Jazz and R&B, and the silver cable for acoustic, other types of jazz, and classical. 

 What the heck... it's only money.


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## penger

Nice informative review. Thanks guys! It makes me want to spend money on these cables ahhhhh


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## JaZZ

_jornfin..._

 ...thanks for your well-written and interesting review! I own the Zu Mobius as well as two 1st-gen. Silver Dragons and can very well reproduce the sonic difference between Zu Mobius and SD v2 on the basis of your description. Your characterization of the Zu Mobius is spot on according to my own impression. So far I have a slight preference for the HD650/Mobius synergy, but I'm very interested in the new Silver Dragon which may absolutely come even closer to my sonic ideal. You haven't by chance experience with the 1st-gen. Silver Dragon cable?

 BTW, actually I'd prefer the (1st-gen.) Silver Dragon's sonic balance, but the Zu Mobius has the better high-frequency definition. What is your finding about this issue with the new Silver Dragon?
.


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## pftrvlr

Great review. Very informative.


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## jornfin

Hello there, glad you liked the review. In retrospective, I wondered did I make the Mobius sound too bad? I wouldn't want that. As I said, I used to love it myself. Now, as for your questions. Unfortunately, I never had a first gen. Silver Dragon. Many reviewers have pointed out some flaws it had, though. Among them some treble brightness, also a stiffness of the cable. I wouldn't know. All I can say is that the V2 ist spectacular particularly in the treble department! And the cable is so nicely built and flexible, it beats the Mobius in that departement quite clearly, too. I am still keeping the Mobius out of sentimentality, but I think I'll be selling it eventually. Since I wrote the review, I traded in my X-Can for an Earmax Pro. This is a Single Ended Triode (OTL) made by Brocksieper in Germany and promoted by Audio Advancements in New Jersey. (See my review!) I prefer the SD even more with this design than with the X-Can. In the end, it'll depend a lot on your source. If there is any brightness there, all silver is always a little risky. If there isn't I'd say you can only win with the SD. BUT: Give it 100 hours at least to burn in. No complaints before that, please  If your source is analog, the SD is a sure bet in any case. Also, music: If you are all about Metallica, stick to the Mobius. What you win with the SD might not be what you appreciate in music. If you like acoustic music, jazz, classical, folk etc. which depends on the sound of the individual instrument and voice, I recommend the SD. 
 Have fun trying it out!
 Jorn


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## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jornfin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What really happens is this: Any signal that is sent from A to B (anywhere in this universe, above quantum level anyways) degrades on the way._

 

I don't think so. There are some cables that enhance bass. There are some cables that actually take bass away. There are cables that compress dynamics.

 It doesn't allow the source to come out, it just colors the signal. And yes, I prefer the stock cable. Funny, they way you describe the v2 to the zu is the same way I describe the stock cable to the headphile blacksilver upgrade cable. The stock is more natural.


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## Alwayswantmore

Jorn, very nice review! I owned 650s and ran them with both a balanced Moon Blue Dragon V2 and Zu Mobius. With my system I found the BD too laid back, where the Zu added some welcomed highend zip and detail, (IMO) needed by the 650.

 I've now moved on to K1000s driven by the RWA Sig 30, which is known to have sonic characteristics much like an SET tube amp. I love my system, but crave more detail -- or better described -- more resolution. For a long time I've been thinking about approaching Drew to see if he would consider doining a Silver Dragon V2 hardwire for my K1000s. Your review only serves to heighten my interest.

 Thanks again.


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## jornfin

Hello,
 what I meant is this: The cable is a passive device, how could it possible "add" anything? You would have to explain that process. Bass, after all, is not something produced by cables, but by instruments. It is then reproduced by the source. It can be emphasized by the amp. But you'll have a hard time explaining to anyone what it is a cable does to produce more bass.

 Anyways, it might depend on the source. As I state in my review: The more faults in the source, the less well you fare with silver cabling. Particularly CD-players tend to sound bright or harsh. If the cable allows all of that to get through, you will not like the outcome.


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## tufflitestudios

Thanks for the info. I have wanted to get the SD V2 and this thread just sealed the deal.


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## ken36

Wow. Nice comments. I am going to break out my SD V2 again. You are hearing something I have missed. Thanks my friend.


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## ken36

I just put my Silver Dragon up FS Cable forum. They only have 30 hours. I just don't have the patience to break them in. My loss.


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## after5cafe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=medium]*Ditto*[/size]... I think... not sure yet... but, I think so...

 I've got the Cardas, Zu and Senn v2 Black Silver cables with my HD600 & HD650's. 

 While the Zu is great with the HD650's (really transforms them) - adds speed, slam, PRat, detail, clarity, highs, pretty well eliminating the "veil"... on the other hand... the Senn v2 Black Silver cable really adds even greater clarity and detail, and seems to result in a bit brighter, more airy sound than the Zu. 

 From my perspective, the HD650's really need the greater speed, clarity, detail, and air that a silver cable provides, though it gives up just a bit of the bass / mids weight when compared to the Zu or Cardas - but the HD650's have a just a bit too much bass / mids weight anyway (with the stock, Cardas, or Zu cables).

 So... if you think the HD650's need a faster, lighter, clearer more detailed sound, you may prefer either the Silver Dragon, or Senn v2 Black Silver cables - but, if you're after a brighter sound, with clear fast, tight, solid bass, with a bit of warm weight in the bass and mids, then you'll love the Zu, or even the Cardas (although it doesn't provide quite the same level of detail, clarity and bright highs as the Zu adds). 

 And... the HD600's probably are a bit better with the Cardas, or Zu cables, which add some impact, and warm weight to the bass and mids - which the HD600's seem to benefit by (because they're sound inherently seems to be a bit, clearer, faster, brighter, more detailed, and airy than the HD650's).

 Or... as all really sic Headfi types... you may want both - the Zu for Rock, and some types of Jazz and R&B, and the silver cable for acoustic, other types of jazz, and classical. 

 What the heck... it's only money._

 

great imformation ! thx


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## jornfin

Amen to that. Still have the Zu in the closet. Probably sell it, as I said, but after5cafe makes a good point. I agree with the sonic description.


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## boomana

The Zu was my first aftermarket cable for the 650s. It completely transformed the 650s, but not in a good way for me. I found it too harsh in the highs, actually painful at times. I also did not like the stiffness of the cable (though if the sound had been more to my liking, it wouldn't have mattered at all). I sold it and have since been very happy with the RnB G52, and have heard and like the Equinox as well. I haven't heard the others mentioned.


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## malky

Excellent write up. I too have Senn HD 650 Mobius. I agree about cable stiffness, but can live with it. I have always loved the sound but now you make me wonder weather to try the SD. I also have the Xcan V3 but modded with Panasonic caps etc as to this link here in the UK .
http://rockgrotto.proboards39.com/in...ead=1145802934

 Have a look around this site. 
 I also couldnt agree more about the importance of the front end, the better you go on the cans and it can actually end up being more truthful about a poor front end and thus finishes up sounding worse.
 Malc


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## Musiq

sorry for duplicate post


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## Musiq

This was a great thread, but I'd like to get some current opinion re: the Zu's, the SD's and the Equinox cables for the HD-650.

 In his ad for his new edition of the Equinox, Stefan mentioned them evolving over time..."refinement" is his term. 

 So, have the Zu and the Silver Dragons also evolved over time? What's your feeling about the current crop of the Zu vs the SD vs the Equinox with the HD-650's for classical, vocal and light jazz?


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## malky

OK I Have sent for the Silver Dragon. Ill have a play with both the Zu and SD,then sell off the Zu if SD prefered. Should sell easily here in the UK as we cant just go out and buy it TAX TAX TAX Rip off Britain and all that.


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## jornfin

After quite a while with the SD, I agree. Refinement is a good term, but only describes part of the process. I'd say the spectrum was evened out, from a slight over emphasis of the treble to a great balance throughout. With my new triode amp (Earmax Pro) the bass is cavernous! Combined with the rich detail and the refinenement, this is the most pleasurable and involving listening I have yet done with headphones.


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## Herandu

to be honest with you, I think the HD650 is highly over rated. It is relaxed listening perhaps, but the frequency response and dynamic range is not short of laughable. My Denon HP1000 wipes the floor clean with my HD650, and anyone with a HP1000 knows what I am talking about.


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## JaZZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Herandu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to be honest with you, I think the HD650 is highly over rated. It is relaxed listening perhaps, but the frequency response and dynamic range is not short of laughable. My Denon HP1000 wipes the floor clean with my HD650, and anyone with a HP1000 knows what I am talking about._

 

Yeah, thanks for your useful post! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



.


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## Musiq

Let's get back on topic.


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## Herandu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JaZZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, thanks for your useful post! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



._

 

The truth should be told when the emperor has no clothes on.


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## Zorander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Herandu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to be honest with you, I think the HD650 is highly over rated. It is relaxed listening perhaps, but the frequency response and dynamic range is not short of laughable. My Denon HP1000 wipes the floor clean with my HD650, and anyone with a HP1000 knows what I am talking about._

 

Funny. I can't actually laugh at the HD-650 performance. I find it a superior headphone (to the rest that I own anyway) in terms of detail resolution and frequency balance. It is also truly euphonic-sounding.

 Can you explain more elaborately how you don't like these (and what you are pairing them with)? Cheers!


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## JaZZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Herandu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The truth should be told when the emperor has no clothes on._

 

Obviously there are a few members who feel the urge to preach their truths (you're and yours is not the only one)..


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## nfusion770

This doesn't directly address the silver dragon/ zu topic, but I received my RAL cable about 10 days ago and I am very impressed. It adds a beautiful sparkle to the 650s. I am beginning to understand that the "veil" disappears with better equipment, a cable like this seems to go a long way toward this as well. I realize this is all relative as some HD650 fans feel adding a sparkle could be a bad thing. This is also the first upgrade cable I have heard, so my only frame of reference is the stock setup.


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## Zorander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nfusion770* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I realize this is all relative as some HD650 fans feel adding a sparkle could be a bad thing._

 

Very likely, seeing how I myself prefer the Oehlbach and stock cables, over the all-silver Headphile and SD I've owned (both of which add some sort of 'sparkle' somewhere along the frequency region).


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## Singapura

Quote:


 what I meant is this: The cable is a passive device, how could it possible "add" anything? You would have to explain that process. Bass, after all, is not something produced by cables, but by instruments. It is then reproduced by the source. It can be emphasized by the amp. But you'll have a hard time explaining to anyone what it is a cable does to produce more bass. 
 


 Actually a cable can quite easily make it seem that more bass is produced. 
 If you amplify the sound as a whole and then suppress the highs and mids the result will be more bass.The internal resistance of the cable combined with imperfections in the material influence the different frequencies. If the higher frequencies are suppressed the lower ones will be louder. Copper suppresses more high frequencies than silver does. In this way a copper cable "produces" bass.


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## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nfusion770* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This doesn't directly address the silver dragon/ zu topic, but I received my RAL cable about 10 days ago and I am very impressed. It adds a beautiful sparkle to the 650s. I am beginning to understand that the "veil" disappears with better equipment, a cable like this seems to go a long way toward this as well. I realize this is all relative as some HD650 fans feel adding a sparkle could be a bad thing. This is also the first upgrade cable I have heard, so my only frame of reference is the stock setup._

 

I have RAL cable also and I'm very pleased with it. It really removes that so called veil and adds speed, details and clarity to the sound. It isn't too expensive either. Very recommended. 

 I've owned Headphile V2, RnB G52 and now RAL cable. G52 was very good also but it has been so long since I had it that I can't compare it to RAL. Headphile V2 wasn't in the same class with these two IMO.


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## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my perspective, the HD650's really need the greater speed, clarity, detail, and air that a silver cable provides, though it gives up just a bit of the bass / mids weight when compared to the Zu or Cardas - but the HD650's have a just a bit too much bass / mids weight anyway (with the stock, Cardas, or Zu cables)._

 

Can't agree more for your comment here, and surely I think I will go for a silver cable to make the sound be more balanced. With the stock cable, the heavier bass makes it not an ideal to listen the classical music.


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## jornfin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Singapura* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually a cable can quite easily make it seem that more bass is produced. 
 If you amplify the sound as a whole and then suppress the highs and mids the result will be more bass.The internal resistance of the cable combined with imperfections in the material influence the different frequencies. If the higher frequencies are suppressed the lower ones will be louder. Copper suppresses more high frequencies than silver does. In this way a copper cable "produces" bass._

 

Thanks for the input. Of course, some cables can make it seem as if there is more bass. The way you point out is one out of two. The other one is comprising the whole bass spectrum into a boomy something. The less detail there is in the bass reproduction, the bigger the bass can appear, when bass drum, bass, low guitar notes etc. all get thrown in together. However, in neither case is there anyting added. What really happens is that something is LOST and as a result you get the impression of massive bass.


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## jornfin

Herandu;2855417 said:
			
		

> to be honest with you, I think the HD650 is highly over rated. It is relaxed listening perhaps, but the frequency response and dynamic range is not short of laughable. My Denon HP1000 wipes the floor clean with my HD650, and anyone with a HP1000 knows what I am talking about.[/QUOTE
> 
> Can't help but wonder what kind of source you use. The higher the quality, the more appreciation for the HD 650, I am sure. It is not for nothing that some of the most respected reviewers in the world of High end audio consider them one out of 3 contenders for the title of best cans ever (the other two being the AKG 701 and the Grado top of the line).


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