# Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison! (Rectifer Tube Rolling thread)



## Dubstep Girl (Jan 8, 2021)

*Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison!*​                I have been wanting to create this thread for quite some time now, since I often receive PM's and questions asking for advice on tube rolling. I also have noticed that a general 5U4G/Rectifer tube rolling thread does not exist and impressions and recommendations are spread throughout many different threads depending on the amp. This thread will serve to put some of those ideas together.

                As many of you know, I have owned several amps that use these rectifiers and after many hours of listening, have decided to put together a comparison/guide/review thingy to help people decide what tubes they would like to use in their amps, as well as a general opinion as to their sound, performance, and how they compare to many other tubes available. Most of my listening has been done on the Woo Audio amplifiers such as the WA6-SE and WA22; I have also spent quite a lot of time rolling these tubes on the custom 2359Glenn OTL amp I've been using recently. I have noticed that some tubes do indeed sound different on different amps, so do take that into consideration. However, for the most part, their general characteristics remain pretty much the same as long as they are compatible with the amp.


To complement my review as well as to serve as a reference, the following posts/threads might be of interest.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325 - WA22 rectifier shootout
http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/13755 - WA22 rectifier comparison
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/24/248138.html - 5R4 comparison
http://www.head-fi.org/t/451678/wa22-lets-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in - Various rectifiers
http://www.head-fi.org/t/242539/woo6-owners-rectifier-tube-rolling-options- Various rectifiers
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587285/woo-audio-wa6-wa6se-tubes-comments-pictures-and-advice - Various rectifiers
http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/10755 - some WE422A notes
http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio - The 2359Glenn thread also offers tube discussion throughout.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/609800/dna-stratus-2a3-amplifier-first-impressions - For Stratus owners/fans


Anyways here it is! And in no particular order...


*1. Western Electric 422A (early 50's grey plate and later 60s black plate)*


                This is Western Electric's version of the 5U4G, with slightly different specifications, it should be fully compatible with 5U4G amps (Stratus - maybe, Woo, Decware, etc.). The construction is quite interesting, having the same domino plates and overall build as the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Anyways, the sound? This is by far the best tube I have ever owned or heard. My reference tube. As with many of the rare holy grail super tubes out there, they are nearly perfect in every way. Hauntingly beautiful tone, lots of air, great layering, transparency above the rest, and just perfect extension in both the highs and lows, deep bass, palpable, lucid midrange, holographic 3D staging and imaging (like with the WA22 and Glenn OTL, the image is very life-like and out of head unreal good at times), amazing! Overall balance is great as its neither overly warm nor bright, transients and PRaT are as good as they get with tubes (like seriously, beautiful liquid transients!). Out of both tubes I have, I think they both sound pretty much identical, the older grey plate looks a little nicer and might sound a bit better, but they're pretty much the same tube. Price is generally high with singles being anywhere from $400 to 750$.


*2. GEC U52/5U4G/CV575 (Brown base)*

                British tube made by GEC/MWT/Marconi/Osram, etc. I've also seen it branded under Mullard or Brimar. It should be compatible with most 5U4G amps (I have confirmed compatible with Woo WA22 and Stratus).  Mine has grey plates but I've also seen black plates as well as black base versions of this tube. Compared to the Western Electric 422A, I think this would be the second best rectifier tube available. Performance is almost the same as the Western Electric 422A, perhaps only being a little warmer and having a more euphonic tone/timbre/decay. However, it maintains its speed, transparency, layering, soundstage, and imaging. Like the WE422A, it's pretty much nearly perfect in every way and maintains a sort of neutrality throughout. Warm tube sound but with extended air and treble, great staging, deep bass extension, very nice texture and decay as well. Absolutely zero grain with this tube, just like the WE422A, one of the best tubes out there! Sound-wise, it's very similar and shares the same British tone and sound signature of the GEC 6AS7G power tubes. Great synergy with Sennheiser HD 800. Just like the WE422A, this tube can really bring you to tears on the right music, so much magic in the sound of legendary tubes. Price is slightly cheaper than the 422A but similarly priced with tubes going for $350-500$ a piece.


*3. Mullard/Cossor CV378/GZ37/53KU (fat bottle GZ37) (Brown base)*

               Another British tube, this one made in High Wycombe, England around the early 1950s. I've seen it branded as Cossor, Mullard, and GEC/Osram/Marconi/etc. It comes in brown or black base as well. This is a very nice tube overall. Its slightly warmer than the GEC U52, offering a little more bass body and punch and more warmth while maintaining good speed and PRaT. Transparency is very similar, offering liquid silky smooth transients and a grain-free presentation. However, this tube is warmer, not as airy, and the slight extra fullness and more tubey midrange make it a little slower overall. For brighter setups and headphones, this tube offers top-level performance while maintaining clarity and detail. It doesn't veil the midrange or treble like cheaper tubes would (this is very noticeable on headphones like the T1 or the HD 800). This tube is also great for jazz and vocals, very natural timbre and tube warmth. Great bass performance and warmth make this tube a winner for me. Unfortunately, this tube can be hard to find, often selling for $300-450$. It is cheaper than the U52 or WE422A though and might be good for those wanting to use it in a WA5 or WA6-SE. Compared to the newer and much more commonly available Mullard GZ37/CV378 skinny bottle, this tube is much better since it's not as slow and the bass is better textured and cleaner sounding as well as being faster and more resolving overall.


*4. Mullard GZ34/5AR4 (metal base)*

                Metal base 5AR4 made by Mullard/Philips (Miniwatt) /Amperex (Bugle Boy logo) in the 1950s before it got replaced by the black base version which is much more common and not as good sounding. This ranks amongst the best tubes I own and I would place it in the top tier with the WE422A, U52, Cossor GZ37. What I really like about this tube is the cool tonality it has while maintaining tube euphony and inherent warmth. Along with this coolness (think of a minty cool kind-of sound), it has a very liquid-like decay and grain free presentation. Transparent, great clarity and treble extension. The midrange is quite neutral as well, having a nice slightly forward presentation while maintaining a good soundstage and image. Timbre remains natural as well as the decay. This tube is very dynamic as well, having some of the best dynamics of any tube. Want to make your amp more neutral and more SS like, while maintaining tube goodness? This is the tube for you! Bass is also amazing having a clean decay, good texture, and deep extension. A nice mid-bass punch as well adds to the fun-factor this tube has. Great for rock, pop, and just about any music in general. Got a slightly sluggish amp or using warmer headphones like planars or Sennheiser HD 650? This is the tube for you! Liquid, liquid, liquid minty coolness, that's about the best way I can describe this tube. Unfortunately, this tube is getting quite rare and hard to find. It often sells for around $350-$500 NOS and sometimes up to $700-$800 for NIB! The Western Electric 422A might be a better buy at those prices. Anyways, this tube is definitely worth trying out! Also to note, this tube is supposed to have a huge lifespan, many lasting for over 40 years  in use and anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000, and even 100,000 hours! Now I'm not sure how long exactly they will last, but these just about last forever!


*5. Mullard CV378/GZ37/53KU (skinny bottle GZ37) (Brown base)*

                This is the newer version of the GZ37, made in the late 50s and 60s. It was made in Blackburn, England rather than High Wycombe like the older fat bottle version. Sounds like the fat bottle GZ37 but with a few differences. Soundstage and image remains good, very wide and with great depth. But it lacks some of the fine layering of the older version. Transparency is almost as good, offering a somewhat grain-free presentation, but perhaps not as liquid smooth in the decay and transients. Treble isn't as extended, though warmth remains the same, this is a warm and laid-back tube. Bass is nice and full with good body, but it does lack the extension of the older version, by just a bit. It's also slightly less textured and has a little more overhang and it's not as refined overall. Dynamics aren't as good either. Details and nuances don't come in as cleanly as with the other tube, its more smoothed out and it seems like it can't resolve quite the same. The midrange seems a little darker as well. Overall, this is a good tube for those wanting a warm and laid-back presentation. For the price, this is a pretty good tube, but it definitely doesn't compare to the older GZ37. This tube tends to sell anywhere from $80 to $150 per tube.


*6. Mullard GZ34/5AR4/CV1377 (black base)*

                Black base 5AR4 made by Mullard in the Blackburn, England factory. This one is from the 1960s and was branded as General Electric. I've seen all sorts of brands for this tube, but they should all be made by Mullard as long as the etched code, construction, and branding are appropriate (there's straight plates as well as later 4 notch and 7 notch versions out there). This is the regular 4 notch black base GZ34, there is also an earlier fat black base version that came shortly after the metal base was discontinued, it generally costs a little more than the regular black base but not as much as the metal base. There is also a brown base version of this tube, which might be more closely related to the metal base version, and is labeled as CV1377. This tube maintains the same general sound signature of the metal base, but with differences. The minty cool sound is there, but perhaps this tube is slightly colder and more Solid-State like. The decay remains fast and clean, but lacks the liquidity of the metal base, the clarity is pretty much the same, but the transparency isn't as good. There is a tiny bit of grain at times with this tube. The treble is just as extended but has a little more hardness than the metal base. The soundstage/imaging is more narrow, dynamics are similar but there is more of an aggressive forward nature to this tube. The midrange unfortunately seems a little leaner to me on this tube and the bass while punchy, becomes not as extended and lacks some texture. Detail is good on this tube but not quite at the level of the metal base, I find it harder to hear some things and it lacks the layering and depth of the metal base as well. Overall, this tube is nice for those wanting a more neutral and faster more solid-state presentation, however, it lacks some of the refinements of the metal base. While the metal base GZ34 is amongst the best tubes I've heard, the black base is simply good but not amazing. This tube generally sells for $70-$130 a tube (and like $150-200 for the fat black base version and the brown base version) which is a pretty good deal for those looking for a long lasting rectifier, this tube has the same lifespan and longevity that the metal base is known for. It is also much easier to find and there are plenty for sale online. It just isn't as perfect or refined as the metal base unfortunately.


*7. Emission Labs (EML) 5U4G mesh plate (newer ceramic base version)*

                This is a new and current production tube made in the Czech Republic, and is very popular amongst Woo Audio amp owners. Sound-wise, I find this tube to be warm and full sounding offering good bass punch and body as well as a nice sweet midrange. It's a well balanced tube that maintains coherency and extension in the bass and treble. The treble is quite warm and forgiving, yet has enough extension and detail to avoid veiling, it is on the warmer side though. The midrange is slightly pushed back due to the lushness, but remains good overall. The bass is punchy and has good extension, though the sub-bass might be a little lean at times. Decay and speed are good, above average, but don't exactly reach the levels that the rarer U52/W422A tubes do as there isn't that magic liquidity and grain-free clarity; though it comes very close. Tonality isn't as good as the best of the best, but is pretty nice overall. Detail is overall good, being able to pick out nuances in certain tracks and not in others. Transparency is good, but there is a slight veil at times due to the warmth, though it is slight. The soundstage and imaging is great, having a decent width and great depth, a very 3D sounding tube at times, layering isn't as good as some of the better tubes though. Overall, a winner, surprisingly good for a new production tube, and above average to most tubes. The price is a little on the high side, since this tube is around $250. There is also a solid plate version available, but I have not heard it. Beautiful looking tube and larger than most tubes, but the tube might not be as durable as the older tubes being more sensitive and "wimpy" in a way. The tube does darken quickly and lifespan might not be as long as with NOS tubes depending on how hard your amp drives this tube. This has to be taken into consideration since there are plenty of NOS tubes available for less.


*8. United Electronics (USAF) 596*

                Made by United Electronics for the US Air Force, with 2 of the pins being place on top of the tube to avoid arcing. It's supposed to be a high voltage, high altitude, military rectifier. Known now as the "Mighty" 596, this tube is similar to a 5U4G or 5U4GB and should work in most amps made for them. It is also similar to the RK60/1641 tube which is also a 5U4G. In my opinion, this is one of the better tubes out there and I would definitely consider it to be another of my reference tubes. Soundstage and imaging are very good, though the layering and depth are only average, well balanced overall though. Transients, PRaT, and speed are very good, not super liquid like WE422A or U52, but not too far off either. This tube never sounds congested and the decay is fast and clean. Transparency is very good and there is almost no grain in the sound. Timbre and tone are slightly warm to neutral depending on the amp. Treble is quite extended yet smooth and clean. On my WA6-SE this tube was more neutral and almost solid-state sounding, perhaps due to the general sound signature of the amp. On my WA22, it was slightly warmer sounding and smoother. On the Glenn OTL amp, it is slightly warmer as well. The midrange is nice and warm yet maintains a rather neutral sound overall, very clean. The bass is clean, well textured, and with some of the best extension of any tube. Very nice bass I think, it can be a little light at times, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing since the bass is so good. Overall, this tube is neutral to slightly warm but maintains good balance and is a solid performer at any level. It's hard to find flaws in the sound. Dynamic, detailed,  accurate, and extended are words that would best describe this tube. Unfortunately, this tube is getting very rare. It is sold out in almost every store and very few sales pop up on eBay, usually with bids rising quickly and selling quickly. Price and demand are rising quickly with supply being harder to find. This tube sells anywhere from $100 to $200 per tube depending on the seller and condition of the tube, but I think it's worth it! One of my all-time favorite tubes!


*9. Raytheon RK60/1641*

                Made by Raytheon (and also General Electronics as well as a few others), this tube is similar to the 596 and the 5U4G/5U4GB. Construction is similar but instead of little pins sticking out, its buttons. Like the 596, this tube is a very solid performer and it really doesn't do anything wrong. Bass extension is slightly less but similar. Treble is smooth, clean, and extended at the same time. The midrange is slightly warmer than the 596 but remains somewhat the same. Soundstage and imaging are above average and while not amazing and holographic, are decent. Tone and timbre are nice and tubey with a euphonic warmth. Clarity and detail are good as well as transparency. There is a little bit of grain at times since the decay isn't as liquid or clean as with the more expensive tubes, but there isn't any hardness or grit as you would find with lesser tubes of this price. Resolution is above average but not the best. Bass texture could be slightly better as well as midrange detail, the warmth kind of takes away from it.  This tube isn't overly lush like the GZ37 or even the EML, but its more than the 596. A nice tube overall especially for the price. This tube is getting rarer but prices are still under $40 per tube (sometimes even 10-15$ per tube!) and it is easier to find than the 596. A great bargain tube and certainly better than most! Comes close to 596 performance  and some might even prefer this tube over it.


*10. Brimar 5R4GY/CV717*

                Similar to 5U4G but slightly different, this one is made by Brimar. This tube is similar in many ways to the GZ37 tubes in that its quite warm. On the WA6-SE, this was almost too much, extremely syrupy and tubey midrange, very laid-back and lush. It did however, work well with bright headphones due to the treble roll-off. If you enjoy a warm and euphonic presentation, this tube is really nice. Compared to the GZ37's, I think it stands between the Cossor GZ37 and the Mullard GZ37. It's much better than the skinny bottle GZ37 offering more transparency (zero grain!) and a richer tonality, as well as better soundstage and imaging (rivaling that of the best tubes in depth and dimensionality). Bass is tighter and cleaner as well, though not as nice as the Cossor GZ37, its slightly less impactful and not as layered, but better than the regular GZ37 and with much better texture. While this tube lacks speed and PRaT, it does have a very natural decay and timbre, and is one of my favorite tubes for vocals and slower music. Overall, this tube is extremely good for the price, offering much of the performance of the more expensive tubes, having similar transparency and richness in tone. What's even better is the fact that this tube is still easily obtained and fairly cheap with prices ranging from $45-$100. Personally, this is a steal since I think this tube is better than the regular Mullard GZ37 and rivals the more expensive and rarer tubes out there. It is a little too slow for my taste, but if vocals, jazz, and classical are a large part of your collection, this tube is definitely a must have!


*11. Philips 5R4GYS*

                Described by Upscale Audio as the "best 5U4G we've ever had", they have brought much attention to this tube, recommending it over many of the other rectifiers they sell. Compared to the Brimar 5R4GY, I believe this tube is slightly inferior, but might be preferred over it in some cases. The sound is similar, offering euphonic warmth and a sweet tubey midrange. However, its slightly airier and offers better treble. Unfortunately, this also adds some hardness that takes a while to disappear (this tube was grainy until about 100 hours of burn-in). At the end, you get a warm sounding tube that's similar to the Brimar, but being a little more dynamic and a little faster, yet similar in sound. It's a little more balanced overall, the soundstage isn't as deep but imaging is very good. This tube offers better PRaT and speed over the Brimar, which helps it become a better all-rounder. Tone, timbre, and texture is similar to the Brimar but perhaps not as rich. Bass is almost the same, offering a tight, deep, full presentation without being bloaty or boomy. Transparency and clarity are similar but in some ways, a tiny bit below the Brimar. Overall, this tube is pretty good for the price, and offers huge improvements over stock Chinese/Russian 5U4G's for only $50-60. It's a good alternative to more expensive tubes as well, but I wouldn't consider this tube to be anywhere near  "the best".


*12. RCA 5R4GY*

                A 1944 RCA 5R4GY with dark brown base and double getters, this tube is also available in a lighter brown base depending on the year (50s-60s), many of these were military made. Compared to the Brimar and Philips 5R4GY, this tube offers some similarities, but it's the most different sounding. It isn't as warm and tends to sound more neutral and has a more treble oriented sound overall. If you are familiar with the brighter tube sound of Eddie Current products like the Zana Deux, this tube has a similar sound overall. Very airy treble, a nice open midrange with a huge soundstage, and lighter bass. Tonality is colder than the other tubes but has some warmth, this tube has a slightly forward midrange that's open and very clear sounding. The soundstage is huge compared to the other two tubes, offering plenty of space with lots of air, the separation between instruments is very pronounced here, unfortunately layering isn't as good as the better tubes, lacking dimension and holography. The decay is more fast and not liquid smooth but liquid fast, offering an almost SS like presentation at times, but without the grain or edge. Bass is still tight and well controlled and defined, but offers a little less texture and a faster decay. Impact is also less and the bass notes seem to be spread out more and seem a little more distant. Detail and clarity is great but I feel that this tube lacks a little bit in timbre and tone. Transparency is similar to the Philips, being good but not great. Overall, I feel like this tube is a good performer for the price, it is priced similar to the Philips and can often be found much cheaper as there are plenty to go around. Personally though, this isn't one of my favorites, it can have a little too much treble emphasis at times.


*13. RCA 5U4G*

                My RCA 5U4G appears to be one of the ones with smooth plates rather than the ribbed plates (the smooth plates generally seem to be more desired than the ribbed plate versions, not sure if there is any difference really). This is actually a very nice tube, I purchased this tube just out of curiosity (since Frank I has used it in his WA5 with good results), not really expecting a whole lot, but wow, this tube is awesome! It is very well balanced in every aspect, and has a warm tonality, but remains fairly neutral and just not bright or overly lush. Treble is beautifully extended, midrange is open, clean, and well presented, and the bass is tight and deep. This tube has very nice PRaT and is quite musical. Also, this tube is transparent, I hear no grain! Soundstage and imaging aren't quite as good as the more expensive tubes, but it isn't bad either. I'm surprised at how good this tube sounds, especially considering how cheap this tube can be obtained for ($15 to no more than $50), this tube is actually quite good and I think it's better than almost every current production tube available as well as most of the cheaper 5U4G's.


*14. Sylvania 5U4G*

                One of the cheaper 5U4G's available, it's also often packed as a stock tube when buying a new amp; I believe Woo Audio used to do this in the past before they started including the Shuguang 274B. Overall, this tube is pretty good, it sounds similar to the RCA 5U4G, however, it is slightly less detailed and doesn't seem to offer the same clarity or transparency. It is close though. The overall timbre and decay is fuller and the tube is warmer, but there is also a slight veil to the sound. The bass appears to have a little more bloom and to be slightly less extended. I think this is a good tube for the price and is coherent and well balanced but the RCA 5U4G is better.


*15. Tung Sol 5U4GB*

                Another cheaply available tube. It's a fairly neutral tube with a slight warmth. Compared to the Sylvania 5U4G, its more neutral, but has similar performance. I feel like this tube has a slight harshness and leanness to it. Overall, the tube is well balanced, but it isn't very resolving or transparent compared to many of the other rectifiers available out there. Speed and decay are good but there tends to be a sort of SS like hardness in the sound. Personally I do not really like this tube and feel that the older 5U4G are more natural sounding.  For the price though, it might be ok. It's easy to get and cheap as well.


*16. Sylvania 3DG4*

                The rectifier used by 2359Glenn in his OTL amp. This tube has different specifications from the other rectifiers and probably won't work in most 5U4G applications (3 Volts as well as a different pin layout, as of now, only compatible with 2359Glenn amps and other DIY amps), but I shall list it here just for fun and reference for Glenn amp owners. Compared to the Tung Sol 5U4GB, I think this tube is slightly better. It's a similar sound, but warmer overall. Soundstage is pretty good as well as coherency and dynamics. However, I personally do not like this tube either, it appears to suffer from the same problems as the Tung Sol 5U4GB, sounding somewhat harsh and lacking ultimate resolving ability. The good thing is that this tube is very cheap and can be gotten for about $3.00, that's about as cheap as it gets. It does sound better than the 5U4GB and than most of the Chinese/Russian new production tubes.


*17. Shuguang 274B*

                Current production Chinese tube that can be gotten for around $15. It also is the stock tube that Woo Audio supplies with new amps. It's a 274B, so it probably won't work in all 5U4G amplifiers and has different specifications. Pretty much, this is a terrible tube. The sound is grainy and harsh with a congested soundstage and a confused overall sound lacking in coherency. The sound isn't very detailed and there can be fatigue in the treble despite the muddy veiled midrange. I would never recommend this tube and only mention it here as a reference. It's a pretty bad tube and should only be used to burn-in the amp or to include when selling the amp for testing purposes.


*18. Mullard GZ32/CV593/5V4*

                Similar to the other rectifiers, this is another Mullard made tube labeled as CV593 and having a brown base. I believe there is a black base version and several variations of this tube out there. Mine was purchased from Upscale Audio since they seem to have a good supply of them and easily available. As soon as I put this tube in, I was surprised at how good it sounded! Personally, this is near the top of the list amongst the other really good sounding tubes. Transparent, tight-bass, beautiful midrange with a sweet tone, euphonic warmth and tube sound without losing any detail or resolution, vocals are amazing! Great extension in all directions and a great soundstage and image with great depth. Decay and timbre are very natural and musicality is very good. Sound overall is similar to the U52 and the other British tubes; amazing! This tube only cost me around 60$ and is readily available online. If your amp is compatible with them, buy them, performs much better than the price suggests!


*19. Sophia Electric Princess 274B mesh plate*

                This is a current production 274B rectifier offered by Woo Audio as an upgrade to the stock tube. As with the other 274B tubes, it might not be compatible with all 5U4G amps, though Woo Audio amps are all fully compatible with this tube. Though this plate is sold as a "mesh plate", it is not a true woven mesh plate like the Emission Labs tubes, but rather a stamped mesh. This tube is a rather warm sounding tube, though not overly so. Tone is fairly neutral and not overly rich or overly cold, but accurate. The treble is smooth yet extended and airy without being overdone. The midrange is slightly forward with good definition without becoming edgy or harsh. Bass is deep and full but might be slightly bloated for some. There is a slight bass boost and some might find the colorations a little distracting, taking away from some of the transparency and detail. However, it also adds musicality and makes the tube forgiving of poor recordings. Soundstage is very wide and imaging is quite good. This tube has good PRaT as well and is very musical. Overall, I think this is a great tube and while not the last word in refinement, is definitely a solid choice that I think many amp owners will enjoy. While I think for $150 you can get NOS tubes that sound better, this is still a good buy and good for those who want a modern tube that's readily available and that performs well. Do note though, reliability of this tube might not be as good as NOS tubes, though they do say that when used properly, it should provide anywhere from 5000 to 9000 hours of life.


*20. Emission Labs (EML) 274B mesh plate (older plastic base version)*

                This is a new and current production tube made in the Czech Republic, and is another popular choice for 274B amp owners. Like the 5U4G, it is available in a solid plate version as well. This is a pretty nice tube and on the WA22, I preferred it to the Sophia 274B. It is warmer and has less bass, but the soundstage is amazing. Extremely wide, holographic, and 3D like with lots of air, very magical sound. Treble is smooth and midrange is warm yet not overly colored. Dynamics are slightly less than the Sophia 274B  but this tube is much sweeter. Tone and decay are quite natural. Compared to the EML 5U4G, it offers a similar warmth and sound, but has more treble and less body, the sound is slightly faster and there is better separation. Detail and clarity are good but not amazing. I really enjoyed this tube with the Sennheiser HD 800 and Hifiman HE-500 headphones. Overall, I think this tube performs similarly to the EML 5U4G but with a different sound and is worth checking out. For the price of $250 though, it might not be the best value out there.

Well, that's about it for now since those are the only rectifiers I have left (except the Shuguang 274B which got sold).

Tubes to be added to this review at a later date
-Tung Sol 5U4G
-Any other tubes I am interested in trying out


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## Dubstep Girl

reserved.


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## Dubstep Girl

reserved.


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## jc9394

Thanks DG


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## ardilla

WOW!! Great stuff DG! 

*applause*


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## jc9394

DG, once question.  Are you using same driver and power tubes for all these impression?


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## joseph69

*Dubstep Girl*, have you heard the 6GL7/6EM7 driver tubes for the WA6, or anyone for that matter?
 If so, can anyone give a description on their sound, thanks.


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## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> WOW!! Great stuff DG!
> 
> *applause*


 
  
 thanks!
  
 Quote:


jc9394 said:


> DG, once question.  Are you using same driver and power tubes for all these impression?


 
  
 for these, yes. 
  
 i used HD 800, GEC 6AS7G and TS 6F8G as my reference point.
  
 also i used previous experiences with the woos to build the impressions and see the similarities/differences in sound.
  


joseph69 said:


> *Dubstep Girl*, have you heard the 6GL7/6EM7 driver tubes for the WA6, or anyone for that matter?
> If so, can anyone give a description on their sound, thanks.


 
  
 the 6GL7, mine were GE branded. they are nice high gain tubes,  their sound is bassy and warm but with good treble. the sound is quite nice but also lacks in euphony and can be a little edgy at times, its a very dynamic tube with good PRaT with an interesting U shaped sound at times. nice pairing with 596 but other than that, might not be the best. it can become muddy and bloated at times. its a nice tube but might not be worth the money, the 6FD7 is more balanced sounding and overall better imo.


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## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > DG, once question.  Are you using same driver and power tubes for all these impression?
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, you definitely have the best driver and power tubes available.


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## Ultrainferno

Nice Job DG! Get a cheap RCA 5U4GB as well, one of my fav tubes together with the RK60.


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## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> Nice Job DG! Get a cheap RCA 5U4GB as well, one of my fav tubes together with the RK60.


 
  
 is it better than the TS5U4GB? i didn't like it that much
  
 and the regular RCA 5U4G smooth plates is incredible, i can't believe how good it sounds!!!


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## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> for these, yes.
> 
> i used HD 800, GEC 6AS7G and TS 6F8G as my reference point.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your opinion, I already placed the order and they have been shipped, I'll probably get them tomorrow being I'm very close to their business. I hope that I like these tubes, maybe I should have done some further reading before my purchase! Thanks again.


----------



## Ultrainferno

In the Glenn 300b amp it sounds smooth and with the best bass. Not the best sound stage or detail retrieval though, but I love it. A real tube sounding tube


----------



## joseph69

ultrainferno said:


> In the Glenn 300b amp it sounds smooth and with the best bass. Not the best sound stage or detail retrieval though, but I love it. A real tube sounding tube


 
 Thats good to hear, I hope I like these tubes, I'm not so much of a big bass fan, unless it is fast tight and well controlled, thanks for your opinion.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> Thats good to hear, I hope I like these tubes, I'm not so much of a big bass fan, unless it is fast tight and well controlled, thanks for your opinion.


 
  
 i think he was mentioning the RCA 5U4GB.


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> i think he was mentioning the RCA 5U4GB.


 
 Yeah, your right, wishful thinking must have took over!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

Wow, i just breezed through it there. Great write up! Thanks for taking the time. 
  
 Now i will go back and read through it thoroughly.


----------



## Arcamera




----------



## bigfatpaulie

DSG - You rock. OMG, you rock.

Thank you


----------



## magiccabbage

bigfatpaulie said:


> DSG - You rock. OMG, you rock.
> 
> Thank you


 
 hahaha. Keep your pants on.


----------



## SleepyOne

DSG - Awesome thread!!
  
 A question about your Mullard GZ34/ 5AR4, is it single or double 'O' getter type (being UK Mullard)? I wonder have you compare the Philip/ amperex Holland double 'D' getter black plastic base 5AR4 vs your mighty metal base Philip Holland 5AR4? How much better is it?
  
 I am currently also using Sovtek 5AR4 which I found more spacy (but more noisy & not as powerful) compares to the Philip Holland black plastic base.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

cant see the getter on my black base hard to see. its uk mullard (f32)


----------



## Xcalibur255

"_3DG4 - This tube has different specifications and may not work in all 5U4G amps_"
  
 I think it should be made clear that this tube will not work in *any* 5U4G amp unless it has been specifically wired to have a 3 volt heater pin hookup on the rectifier socket, of which there are no commercially available amps in existence to the best of my knowledge.  At best the amp will not function correctly with this tube in the circuit and at worst you'll fry your main power transformer because of the higher heater current draw.  Glenn's amps are unique in their ability to use this 3 volt tube.
  
 Those of a curious nature are duly cautioned.


----------



## magiccabbage

xcalibur255 said:


> "_3DG4 - This tube has different specifications and may not work in all 5U4G amps_"
> 
> I think it should be made clear that this tube will not work in *any* 5U4G amp unless it has been specifically wired to have a 3 volt heater pin hookup on the rectifier socket, of which there are no commercially available amps in existence to the best of my knowledge.  At best the amp will not function correctly with this tube in the circuit and at worst you'll fry your main power transformer because of the higher heater current draw.  Glenn's amps are unique in their ability to use this 3 volt tube.
> 
> Those of a curious nature are duly cautioned.


 
 and in he swoops with words of wisdom....... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the info. Its a good thing i am getting a glenn otl. Do you have any tubes to add to the list for people like me who would be interested in collecting?


----------



## SleepyOne

dubstep girl said:


> cant see the getter on my black base hard to see. its uk mullard (f32)


 
  
 Think it is single 'O' getter.


----------



## Skylab

Very impressive write up. I've never seen such an impressive comparison of rectifier tubes. Great stuff.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Nice job, DG!  Thanks for the impressions.  I agree with you on most points (that I have had experience with).  Sounds like I might need to try out an RK60!


----------



## Frank I

Super job DG.  Very nicely down and an excellent reference for anyone needing  to know what each tube sounds like in different applications.


----------



## MohawkUS

Well, I've never owned a dynamic tube amp, but if I ever decide to get one you have my thanks in advance. At the very least it looks like I'm going to have to start showing up to Head-Fi meets, I'm extremely curious how those 'minty' tubes sound. I've never heard anything audio related described in that way before.


----------



## thegrobe

WOW!Awesome write-up. Very thorough, knowledgeable, and well written! Sure to be a reference for a long time to come. Thanks.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

magiccabbage said:


> hahaha. Keep your pants on.


 
  
 You're too late.  WAY too late.


----------



## 2359glenn

xcalibur255 said:


> "_3DG4 - This tube has different specifications and may not work in all 5U4G amps_"
> 
> I think it should be made clear that this tube will not work in *any* 5U4G amp unless it has been specifically wired to have a 3 volt heater pin hookup on the rectifier socket, of which there are no commercially available amps in existence to the best of my knowledge.  At best the amp will not function correctly with this tube in the circuit and at worst you'll fry your main power transformer because of the higher heater current draw.  Glenn's amps are unique in their ability to use this 3 volt tube.
> 
> Those of a curious nature are duly cautioned.


 

 If a 3DG4 is put in a normal 5U4 socket nothing at all will happen it has a different pin configuration so it will not light up just sit there.
 I should have gave DG a Russian 5U8C with a adapter so she could have tried that one too. Maybe I will anyway she can still try it.


----------



## Lord Soth

Hi Dubstep Girl,

Thanks for creating such a well-written rectifier review. 

IMHO, your rectifier review stands shoulder to shoulder with the legendary "Joe's Tube Lore".


----------



## Xcalibur255

2359glenn said:


> If a 3DG4 is put in a normal 5U4 socket nothing at all will happen it has a different pin configuration so it will not light up just sit there.
> I should have gave DG a Russian 5U8C with a adapter so she could have tried that one too. Maybe I will anyway she can still try it.


 

 Thanks for the correction Glenn.  My concern was for people harming their amps but I guess there was no danger.


----------



## ChardonnayLogic




----------



## Audio Jester

My hat is off to you DG, love your work.


----------



## koiloco

I am speechless and throw in my towel at the same time.  I won't be able to catch up with DG's collection ever.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Great comparison, btw.  Thx.


----------



## billliu

Great work!
 Definitely subscribed!


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> If a 3DG4 is put in a normal 5U4 socket nothing at all will happen it has a different pin configuration so it will not light up just sit there.
> I should have gave DG a Russian 5U8C with a adapter so she could have tried that one too. Maybe I will anyway she can still try it.


 
  
 DG, or Glenn . Have you ever tried the Russian Svetlana black plates 5U3C (5C3S) rectifiers? They're pretty cheap
  

  
  
 I bought a bunch together with Clayton in August, I wonder where I put them. Clayton have you listened to yours?


----------



## playitloud

Dear Dubstep girl,
  
 I really appreciate your review. Impressive collection of rectifier tubes, and most of them are the best of their 'category'. I think no-one here has such a complete collection of rectifiers of this type as you do. That is why I think we should grap the opportunity to make the best possible comparison. What I would really appreciate is a comparison table of all tubes on certain dimensions. Kchew on page 1356 of 'woo owners unite' ( see: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325) has done such a thing. But your collection is more complete, how do the new tubes fit in, and to what extent do you agree with Kchew. Maybe you can add a category such as transparancy, and include a category of best value... I know this is very difficult, but I would really appreciate the effort. For instance, I own the WE422a and the Cossor GZ37 fat bottle, black base. Despite being both great rectifiers, they are very different. Similarly, the RCA 5R4GY (1940) is maybe less warm or more solid state sounding than the Philips and Brimar 5R4GY, but it is still a warm tube compared to some others. Hence, a comparison list that includes all rectifiers from your list would be a great tool to help us in selecting rectifiers that fit our system.
 I hope you will consider it....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

playitloud said:


> Dear Dubstep girl,
> 
> I really appreciate your review. Impressive collection of rectifier tubes, and most of them are the best of their 'category'. I think no-one here has such a complete collection of rectifiers of this type as you do. That is why I think we should grap the opportunity to make the best possible comparison. What I would really appreciate is a comparison table of all tubes on certain dimensions. Kchew on page 1356 of 'woo owners unite' ( see: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325) has done such a thing. But your collection is more complete, how do the new tubes fit in, and to what extent do you agree with Kchew. Maybe you can add a category such as transparancy, and include a category of best value... I know this is very difficult, but I would really appreciate the effort. For instance, I own the WE422a and the Cossor GZ37 fat bottle, black base. Despite being both great rectifiers, they are very different. Similarly, the RCA 5R4GY (1940) is maybe less warm or more solid state sounding than the Philips and Brimar 5R4GY, but it is still a warm tube compared to some others. Hence, a comparison list that includes all rectifiers from your list would be a great tool to help us in selecting rectifiers that fit our system.
> I hope you will consider it....


 
   
 yeah, I did see Kchews table and though of doing a similar thing, but with so many tubes, I didn't know if theres a way to possibly rank them all in order with different categories as well. I tried to describe it all in words instead and compare it to some of the tubes. they overlap quite a bit in some aspects, and some things are too close or good enough that there won't be much difference. for the most part, I agree with what Kchew said and found most of the things he said to be true, with some small differences on some of the tubes.
  
 I think the WE422A or GZ37 would fit just about any system, they are extremely good tubes, but the 5R4GY's are more average sounding overall, with the Brimar being the nicest of the 3, but also a little slower than the Cossor. using different categories could be something i could use in the future, but it seems like it could create more confusion since you would have to create a huge table and go through everything. for example, all 5 of the above mentioned tubes have excellent soundstage and pretty good imaging, it would be difficult to say which is better. and likewise, the cossor, philips, brimar are all warm tubes and it might get confusing trying to rank them like that.
  
 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> If a 3DG4 is put in a normal 5U4 socket nothing at all will happen it has a different pin configuration so it will not light up just sit there.
> I should have gave DG a Russian 5U8C with a adapter so she could have tried that one too. Maybe I will anyway she can still try it.


 


ultrainferno said:


> DG, or Glenn . Have you ever tried the Russian Svetlana black plates 5U3C (5C3S) rectifiers? They're pretty cheap
> 
> 
> I bought a bunch together with Clayton in August, I wonder where I put them. Clayton have you listened to yours?


 
  
 isn't 5U3C the 'winged c russian tube? i've been interested in buying that, i could possibly try that out since it looks nice. and the 5U8C is that big funky looking tube I saw on one of the pictures right?
  


skylab said:


> Very impressive write up. I've never seen such an impressive comparison of rectifier tubes. Great stuff.


 
  
 thank you!
  


xcalibur255 said:


> "_3DG4 - This tube has different specifications and may not work in all 5U4G amps_"
> 
> I think it should be made clear that this tube will not work in *any* 5U4G amp unless it has been specifically wired to have a 3 volt heater pin hookup on the rectifier socket, of which there are no commercially available amps in existence to the best of my knowledge.  At best the amp will not function correctly with this tube in the circuit and at worst you'll fry your main power transformer because of the higher heater current draw.  Glenn's amps are unique in their ability to use this 3 volt tube.
> 
> Those of a curious nature are duly cautioned.


 
  
 noted, I will add that to the thread and keep it up only as a reference for Glenn amp owners who want to compare it to other rectifiers available. thanks!
  


lord soth said:


> Hi Dubstep Girl,
> 
> Thanks for creating such a well-written rectifier review.
> 
> ...


 
 ah yes, the tube lore, i enjoy reading the 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 saga


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> isn't 5U3C the 'winged c russian tube? i've been interested in buying that, i could possibly try that out since it looks nice. and the 5U8C is that big funky looking tube I saw on one of the pictures right?


 
  
 5U3C: Yes they are.
 The 5U8C is that tube you saw in one of Clayton's Glenn amps


----------



## playitloud

Thank you for your respeonse. Maybe it is an idea to group them, instead of ranking them individually. For instance, 'cold', 'neutral', 'warm'; etc.


----------



## 2359glenn

I can send you a 5U8C along with a adapter I gave them to some of the guys that have my amps
If nothing else it looks cool but It won't work in any other amps they can't
handle the 5amps the filament draws from the power transformer.


----------



## scolaiw

Brilliant post DG! This is absolutely brilliant for most Woo amp owners as well as many other head-fiers.

 Just a suggestion, it might be a good idea to post a quick ranking of the tubes in terms of overall SQ and another ranking of the tubes in terms of value for money. Or to make things easier, give a grade (B, A, A+ etc.) or 5 star system to each tube in both areas.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

scolaiw said:


> Brilliant post DG! This is absolutely brilliant for most Woo amp owners as well as many other head-fiers.
> 
> Just a suggestion, it might be a good idea to post a quick ranking of the tubes in terms of overall SQ and another ranking of the tubes in terms of value for money. Or to make things easier, give a grade (B, A, A+ etc.) or 5 star system to each tube in both areas.


 
  
 now that i think i can do!
  


2359glenn said:


> I can send you a 5U8C along with a adapter I gave them to some of the guys that have my amps
> If nothing else it looks cool but It won't work in any other amps they can't
> handle the 5amps the filament draws from the power transformer.


 
  
 ok!
  
  
  
  
  
 and Ultrainferno is this the same 5U3C u guys bought? looks like theres older black plate and also grey plate versions.
  
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/5U4-Tube-Types/Winged-C-SED-5U4-G-Black-Plate
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-5U4G-5U3C-5C3S-SVETLANA-Tube-C-Black-Plate-1960s-/200987991030?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ecbd15bf6


----------



## Silent One

Dubstep Girl, it's great to see your work come to light... fantastic!


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> I can send you a 5U8C along with a adapter I gave them to some of the guys that have my amps
> If nothing else it looks cool but It won't work in any other amps they can't
> handle the 5amps the filament draws from the power transformer.


 
 I was asking about that tube not too long ago as well, do you think you could send one along with my amp?


----------



## Silent One

It's been quite some time since I've heard _The Big Russian._ Think I may pop that bad boy in for brief listening tonight.


----------



## dminches

DG, nice write up.
  
 I don't see the value in ranking them since the order would/could change in the same amp with different power or driver tubes or another amp altogether.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> DG, or Glenn . Have you ever tried the Russian Svetlana black plates 5U3C (5C3S) rectifiers? They're pretty cheap
> 
> I bought a bunch together with Clayton in August, I wonder where I put them. Clayton have you listened to yours?


 
  
 These rectifiers sound incredibly clean when used in my Glenn Amp mono blocks. Those are speaker amps. I really like the 1957 black plate versions. I haven't heard the ones you gave me--those are 1986 grey plates--but I am sure they'll sound equally as good. My hearing is not as acute as yours or DG's so I am not sure if you would like them when using headphones.


----------



## Silent One

That was my experience - recs moved up/down in prefs once I started rolling in drive/power tubes...


----------



## kchew

Wow Dubstep Girl, hat's off to you! That was a great writeup of droolworthy rectifiers, now you've tempted me to hunt down a WE422A or U52. I saw the U52 in Hong Kong going at cheaper prices than ebay, yet I stayed away as I thought I had enough rectifiers. But of course it is never enough.


----------



## Silent One

WE422... get up and go get it kchew!


----------



## kchew

Let's see if I can get lucky trying to snag one at a good price, the WE422A seems to command higher and higher prices since we've been praising them here.


----------



## Silent One

The glowing and publicly indexed comments we make on tubes shall always come back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




to haunt us.


----------



## dminches

Maybe I should trade 2 596s for a WE 422A....


----------



## Silent One

By the numbers - if one '596' should meet an early demise, you've still got one!


----------



## playitloud

kchew said:


> Let's see if I can get lucky trying to snag one at a good price, the WE422A seems to command higher and higher prices since we've been praising them here.


 
  Good luck. I have been hunting for a spare one last month. Be prepared to pay more than 300 dollars for used ones. To give you an idea. I bought a NOS WE 422a a few years ago from Tubeworld for 150 dollar. It is a crazy world. Best is to wait till the hype is over....But as they say: patience is a virtue, possess it if you can; seldom in a woman, never in a man.
  
 Good hunting


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> Maybe I should trade 2 596s for a WE 422A....




Recommended that to someone else who is considering a 422A

All the 400$ ones on ebay have sold, only the 750$ singles remain, there is a. Auction for a pair right now though...

Btw tejas tubes might have some still.....

http://www.tejastubes.com/nos-western-electric-422a/


----------



## dminches

$400 is crazy for a rectifier!


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> $400 is crazy for a rectifier!


 
 750 is crazier


----------



## magiccabbage

those kind of prices sometimes temp me to go solid state, sometimes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

After looking at the 422A data sheet I have to wonder why nobody is making a reproduction of the tube today.  It has nice specs.  Less voltage drop and more capacity than a 5U4G, and indirectly heated too.  On paper the tube is very similar to a GZ33/GZ37 actually.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

xcalibur255 said:


> After looking at the 422A data sheet I have to wonder why nobody is making a reproduction of the tube today.  It has nice specs.  Less voltage drop and more capacity than a 5U4G, and indirectly heated too.  On paper the tube is very similar to a GZ33/GZ37 actually.


 
  
 yes, i believe Glenn also said something similar when i asked him about the 422A in his amp, he said it looked like a very nice tube.


----------



## GloryUprising

dminches said:


> $400 is crazy for a rectifier!


 
  
 So says the guy with the $2000 headphone.


----------



## 2359glenn

I would have recommended this tube for the amp but nobody but you have this tube.
So I usually recommend 3DG4 and GZ37 are the ones I like.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> $400 is crazy for a rectifier!




$400 is not bad until you need dual rectifiers, dual drivers, and dual powers.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> $400 is not bad until you need dual rectifiers, dual drivers, and dual powers.


 

 If people are willing to pay $400 & $700 for a rectifier I am selling my amps much to cheep.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> If people are willing to pay $400 & $700 for a rectifier I am selling my amps much to cheep.


 
 yea you could easily sell them for a lot more but don't at least until i get my one.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Most excellent write up DG! Thanks for this...great read and a fantastic summary.


----------



## magiccabbage

macedonianhero said:


> Most excellent write up DG! Thanks for this...great read and a fantastic summary.


 
 Will you ever go back to tubes yourself? Have you heard DNA? I think i will save for it after the OTL.


----------



## MacedonianHero

magiccabbage said:


> Will you ever go back to tubes yourself? Have you heard DNA? I think i will save for it after the OTL.


 
 I like the easy life of SS so far...but never say never I suppose.


----------



## koiloco

2359glenn said:


> If people are willing to pay $400 & $700 for a rectifier I am selling my amps much to cheep.


 
 Then you won't be "the" Glenn anymore.


----------



## Makiah S

Very nice article, I know I've been wanting for a nice BIG list of Tube Rectifier comparisions!


----------



## Rossliew

Will different rectifier tubes affect the WA3's sound noticeably?


----------



## sfoclt

Great thread and topic.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rossliew said:


> Will different rectifier tubes affect the WA3's sound noticeably?


 
  
 i don't think that the WA3 has rectifier tubes,  only power and driver.


----------



## GrindingThud

Correct, the WA3 has solid state bridge rectifier. h34r::basshead:



dubstep girl said:


> i don't think that the WA3 has rectifier tubes,  only power and driver.


----------



## Nusho

What exactly are tube rectifiers and how are they used? Sorry for being so noobish, but we all have to learn at one point in our lives, right? 
-- thanks


----------



## magiccabbage

nusho said:


> What exactly are tube rectifiers and how are they used? Sorry for being so noobish, but we all have to learn at one point in our lives, right?
> -- thanks


 
 they convert AC to DC - you can easily google it.


----------



## Clayton SF

nusho said:


> What exactly are tube rectifiers and how are they used? Sorry for being so noobish, but we all have to learn at one point in our lives, right?
> -- thanks


 

 Not to worry. I had to start somewhere too.
  
 So here's a primer from Wikipedia:
  
 A *rectifier* is an electrical device that converts alternating current (AC), which periodically reverses direction, to direct current (DC), which flows in only one direction. The process is known as *rectification*. Physically, rectifiers take a number of forms, including vacuum tube diodes, mercury-arc valves, copper and selenium oxide rectifiers, semiconductor diodes, silicon-controlled rectifiers and other silicon-based semiconductor switches. Historically, even synchronous electromechanical switches and motors have been used. Early radio receivers, called crystal radios, used a "cat's whisker" of fine wire pressing on a crystal of galena (lead sulfide) to serve as a point-contact rectifier or "crystal detector".
  
 Rectifiers have many uses, but are often found serving as components of DC power supplies and high-voltage direct current power transmission systems. Rectification may serve in roles other than to generate direct current for use as a source of power. As noted, detectors of radio signals serve as rectifiers. In gas heating systems flame rectification is used to detect presence of flame.
 Because of the alternating nature of the input AC sine wave, the process of rectification alone produces a DC current which, although unidirectional, consists of pulses of current. Many applications of rectifiers, such as power supplies for radio, television and computer equipment, require a _steady_ constant DC current (as would be produced by a battery). In these applications the output of the rectifier is smoothed by an electronic filter to produce a steady current.
  
 A more complex circuitry device which performs the opposite function, converting DC to AC, is known as an inverter.
  
_*Nusho--and there's more at the door!...*_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier


----------



## magiccabbage

this might help also - http://www.head-fi.org/t/534985/power-versus-driver-tubes-question
  
http://www.ecpaudio.com/pdf/parafeed_basics.pdf
  
 I am still learning myself


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> this might help also - http://www.head-fi.org/t/534985/power-versus-driver-tubes-question
> 
> http://www.ecpaudio.com/pdf/parafeed_basics.pdf
> 
> I am still learning myself


 

 And actually, I still don't get how glass and metal do this kind of magic. It is all so fascinating to me--still


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> And actually, I still don't get how glass and metal do this kind of magic. It is all so fascinating to me--still


 
 i wanna start building next year so id better start getting used to keeping the info in my head. I presume as you build it becomes easier. The act of making hopefully will help me understand how it all works.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks DSG for the clarification


----------



## playitloud

xcalibur255 said:


> After looking at the 422A data sheet I have to wonder why nobody is making a reproduction of the tube today.  It has nice specs.  Less voltage drop and more capacity than a 5U4G, and indirectly heated too.  On paper the tube is very similar to a GZ33/GZ37 actually.


 
  


dubstep girl said:


> yes, i believe Glenn also said something similar when i asked him about the 422A in his amp, he said it looked like a very nice tube.


 
  
 Before you all rush out to pay excessive amounts of money on a Western Electric 422a, maybe it is good to put things a bit in perspective. Although  I do not have all the rectifiers Dubstep girl has tested, I have a few of the top contenders: WE422a and GZ37 Mullard fat bottle (black base). I use them in my 300B amp (see profile). The power supply of that amp is a choke input type supply. My amp needs an indirectly headed triode, hence no GEC U52 for me.
  
 Both are great rectifiers but they are quite different. The Western Electric 422a compared to the Mullard GZ37 big bottle is bass light, and less defined and dynamic in the bass. The Mullard GZ37 big bottle (BB) has incredible bass depth, dynamics and definition.
  
 The WE422a excels in the midrange, where it is very natural, and smooth but also very detailed,  and transparent. You hear everything here but it still sounds natural (beautiful tone and timbre of instruments, no grain). Quite an achievement. I think that is where the WE422a really shines. The midrange of the Mullard GZ37BB ,on the other hand is warmer, sounds bigger, less quick on its feet, but still very natural and relaxed. The midrange of the WE422a is more exciting, the Mullard is more relaxed.
  
 The WE422a also has beautiful highs, natural tone and very quick. You clearly hear the hi-hats hit each other. And again, no grain, no hard edge. The Mullard GZ37 BB’s treble is more rolled off, less defined,  but again still very natural and smooth, just not as prominent..
  
 Last, the WE422a excels in soundstage width and depth, the Mullard is more intimate compared to the WE422a., but it still has a decent soundstage don’t you worry.
 When I owned the Sennheiser HD800, I much preferred the Mullard GZ37BB to the WE422a.  The HD800 could use some extra bass, and did not need the soundstage qualities of the WE422a. In fact, when I used the WE422 the soundstage became too large,  there was not enough presence, I felt removed from the music. The Mullard GZ37 BB was for me a perfect match with the Sennheiser HD800.
  
 I now use the Fostex TH-900, and things get more tricky. The jury is still out on this one. With the WE422a, the midrange is very present. It completely cures the recessed midrange issues of the Fostex, as a bonus it creates a large open and very detailed soundstage that is very addictive….However, it loses some of its main qualities and that is the bass. With the Mullard GZ37BB the bass of the Fostex TH-900 is simply incredible. Deep, dynamic and very well defined. The WE422a is not capable of doing that. The bass is not only less deep, it is also less defined and dynamic. For some reasons, the WE422a is not capable of controlling the bass of the TH-900 as much as the Mullard does.
  
 Now beware I listen mostly to classical (opera & symphonic) music, with some good slides of jazz and pop/rock. And you could argue that for classical the WE422a is to be preferred, but it is not that easy. In my opinion classical music (at least symphonic and opera, but also piano) profits just as much from a well defined deep bass as other types of music, as long as it does not overwhelms the midrange….And it does not with the Fostex. Bass provides the basic rhythm of the music, mess that up and the structure is lost, also in classical music…Good bass definition is very important for complex  and dynamic (classical) music (Mahler just as much as the Stones), it gives direction and purpose. If you lose that,  the rest does not matter (to me) anymore.
  
 To summarize, the WE422 excels in the midrange, but falls a bit short in the bass (IMO, and on my equipment). The Mullard GZ37 excels in the bass, and has no real shortcomings, it is just less capable in the midrange and treble than the WE422a. At this moment, I use the Mullard GZ37 BB in the 300B amplifier, and the WE422a in my Lampizator DAC….
 Hope this helps a bit….


----------



## magiccabbage

playitloud said:


> Before you all rush out to pay excessive amounts of money on a Western Electric 422a, maybe it is good to put things a bit in perspective. Although  I do not have all the rectifiers Dubstep girl has tested, I have a few of the top contenders: WE422a and GZ37 Mullard fat bottle (black base). I use them in my 300B amp (see profile). The power supply of that amp is a choke input type supply. My amp needs an indirectly headed triode, hence no GEC U52 for me.
> 
> Both are great rectifiers but they are quite different. The Western Electric 422a compared to the Mullard GZ37 big bottle is bass light, and less defined and dynamic in the bass. The Mullard GZ37 big bottle (BB) has incredible bass depth, dynamics and definition.
> 
> ...


 
 thanks for posting - that does help. When you  say BB you mean black base?


----------



## playitloud

BB= Big Bottle. The High Wycombe one,...Can be both black or brown base...


----------



## Frank I

Ok I located  a pair of 596 tubes for 200.00 shipped . To bad there was only  pair. May have found a stash of R60 will get that price next week


----------



## skeptic

magiccabbage said:


> i wanna start building next year so id better start getting used to keeping the info in my head. I presume as you build it becomes easier. The act of making hopefully will help me understand how it all works.


 
  
 Here's a great resource if you want to understand tubes: the Navy's free electricity and electronics training materials - http://www.phy.davidson.edu/instrumentation/NEETS.htm  They have a whole chapter devoted to teaching you the basics of vacuum tubes from the ground up: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/neets/mod06.pdf  
  
 One of the defining characteristics of a vacuum tube is that current can only flow one way through the tube - from the filament/cathode to the plate/anode.  Rectifiers are thus the simplest sort of vacuum tubes.  Apply AC to heat up a filament, in a vacuum, and electrons float across the gap onto a positively charged plate, which outputs current flowing in only one direction (DC).  To be clear, no signal passes through this sort of a tube.  It is merely part of the power supply of the amp, so whatever sonic changes are perceived as between rectifiers are only the indirect results of changing the power supply circuit.
  
 Signal tubes are far more interesting because you are using the same principals to amplify the voltage of the actual audio signal, which is introduced into the tube through something call the "grid."  The amplified signal is then (typically) picked up off the anode.  Rectifiers don't have a grid.  In any event, I highly recommend the neets modules if this is of interest!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

playitloud said:


> Before you all rush out to pay excessive amounts of money on a Western Electric 422a, maybe it is good to put things a bit in perspective. Although  I do not have all the rectifiers Dubstep girl has tested, I have a few of the top contenders: WE422a and GZ37 Mullard fat bottle (black base). I use them in my 300B amp (see profile). The power supply of that amp is a choke input type supply. My amp needs an indirectly headed triode, hence no GEC U52 for me.
> 
> Both are great rectifiers but they are quite different. The Western Electric 422a compared to the Mullard GZ37 big bottle is bass light, and less defined and dynamic in the bass. The Mullard GZ37 big bottle (BB) has incredible bass depth, dynamics and definition.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i mostly agree with everything you said, but i wouldn't say it falls short in the bass. it might depend on your amp as well, the GZ37 might be a better pairing with your amp than the WE422A. i find the WE422A is neutral in the bass but i never find it light or lacking definition or dynamics. The GZ37 definitely has more bass, but it also seems less accurate due to extra body and bloom. might be a preference thing but i find the WE422A to overall be the better tube, its neutral with beautiful tone and its not overly colored and seems to be just about perfect in everything else with near perfect extension in all directions.
  
 the GZ37 is similar but warmer with fuller bass, more midrange, smoother treble, etc.
  
 the U52 is kind of a middle ground between these 2 tubes, being like the 422A but with a sweeter more euphonic warmth to it. if you've ever heard other GEC tubes like the 6AS7G, the sound signature is basically identical.
  


playitloud said:


> BB= Big Bottle. The High Wycombe one,...Can be both black or brown base...


 
  
 +1
  
 the Fat bottle GZ37/53KU (Cossor, High Wycombe) comes in both brown or black base.


----------



## Sonido

I got a newbie tube question. Which tube (driver, power, rectifier) impacts/adds to the sound the most?
  
 I think it's very interesting that there's the purist school of thought that any added component degrades/adds something not there to the sound. These people tend to stay away from tubes. Then there are those like most people here probably, myself included, who are just looking to pair up the best sound with headphones, so looking for a tube that adds the best subjective sound is the goal. However, I wonder if this is ever excessive at some point. Imagine adding a tube in cables just for adding a sound. Currently, I'm using the Bottlehead Quickie in my chain to add a tube sound. It's battery powered so it's natively DC power and does not require a rectifier. It has a pair of driver (I think?) tubes that add warmth to the overall sound. While I've heard from purists that battery powered DC is a great way to go since there's one less component in the chain required, I'm wondering if I'm missing out on having a rectifier tube to add more subjectively pleasing sounds.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Depends on the amps design


----------



## LeonardS

DSG, thanks for the great write-up!  I always wondered how the rectifier tubes factored into the listening, since so much attention is usually given to the rest of the amplification chain.  Clean, powerful and quick DC current is at the root of the best sounding devices, and simply cannot be overlooked.  
  
 Skeptic, really enjoyed reading the links you provided.  It was like a trip down memory lane, as I started my interest in electronics by building tube radios in the 60's during grade school.  My dad started me out...


----------



## nwavesailor

It looks like the prices of the WE 422A are taking off.
  
 In completed sales on E-Bay you could snag one for $300-$400 just a moth ago. Currently there is one is over $600 on E-Bay for an auction as well as the top-shelf stuff from Asia at $700+
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201000578874?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## chengka7

After reading this great review, I could not stop buying myself a NOS WE422a, and it has just arrived yesterday. I paid this tube for 450usd. I tried this tube with my WA22. The power tube I used is GEC6AS7G normal brown base, and driver tube is Tung-sol 6sn7 black glass round plate. I compared this tube with my all time favorite Mullard GZ34 metal base. With my HD800, I found out that the base is more defined however I still prefer GZ34 with its great sense of dynamic. Regarding to the sound stage, I think the difference between those two tubes are almost indiscernible. But I have to admit that the treble is more refined with 422A. However, when I tried this combo with LCD-3, I found out that Mullard GZ34 is obviously a better choice compared to WE422A. WE422A just makes LCD-3 slightly warmer than usual. When pairing with Mullard GZ34 metal base, the sound from LCD-3 is just incredible.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

chengka7 said:


> After reading this great review, I could not stop buying myself a NOS WE422a, and it has just arrived yesterday. I paid this tube for 450usd. I tried this tube with my WA22. The power tube I used is GEC6AS7G normal brown base, and driver tube is Tung-sol 6sn7 black glass round plate. I compared this tube with my all time favorite Mullard GZ34 metal base. With my HD800, I found out that the base is more defined however I still prefer GZ34 with its great sense of dynamic. Regarding to the sound stage, I think the difference between those two tubes are almost indiscernible. But I have to admit that the treble is more refined with 422A. However, when I tried this combo with LCD-3, I found out that Mullard GZ34 is obviously a better choice compared to WE422A. WE422A just makes LCD-3 slightly warmer than usual. When pairing with Mullard GZ34 metal base, the sound from LCD-3 is just incredible.


 
  
 the GZ34 and 422A were my favorite tubes with WA22, i preferred the 422A for being slightly sweeter and tonally warmer, though the mullard gz is a little more dynamic. both excellent tubes though unfortunately both can be costly.


----------



## Sonido

A lot of talk on vintage tubes or tubes from the 1960s. Are these still being produced today, or is there a limited supply in the world?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sonido said:


> A lot of talk on vintage tubes or tubes from the 1960s. Are these still being produced today, or is there a limited supply in the world?


 
  
 not being made anymore. becoming rarer and rarer by the day


----------



## Lord Soth

sonido said:


> A lot of talk on vintage tubes or tubes from the 1960s. Are these still being produced today, or is there a limited supply in the world?




The following Vacuum tube FAQ is useful for beginners.
http://www.vacuumtubes.net/faq.htm




sonido said:


> I got a newbie tube question. Which tube (driver, power, rectifier) impacts/adds to the sound the most?
> .......
> I'm wondering if I'm missing out on having a rectifier tube to add more subjectively pleasing sounds.




From my experience, all 3 have an effect.
If you are on a tight budget, than it is suggested to change tubes in the following order
1. Preamp tubes ( also advocated by Kevin Deal )
2. Rectifiers 
3. Output tubes
Items 1 and 2 have the greatest impact.

Again, based on tube design articles I have read, this depends on the power output of your tube amp.
Most low power SET tube amps sound better with tube rectifiers.
When a certain power threshold is reached, solid state rectifiers do a better job due to speed. This in turn has an impact on audio PRAT.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html


----------



## Silent One

sonido said:


> A lot of talk on vintage tubes or tubes from the 1960s. Are these still being produced today, or is there a limited supply in the world?


 
  
 NOS tubes are not RoHS Compliant. Market demand will dictate at what trajectory prices are launched toward the moon.


----------



## Sonido

silent one said:


> NOS tubes are not RoHS Compliant. Market demand will dictate at what trajectory prices are launched toward the moon.


 

 While everyone else goes pursuing rare, pricey vintage tubes, I for one am waiting for the future: http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/27/nano-vacuum-tubes-could-give-a-second-life-to-the-guitarists-be/


----------



## Silent One

_Go NASA..._


----------



## BlueSundays

A while ago, like back in the turn of century, I had me a ha-2 headphone amp. I didnt think it was so great. So I tried a bunch of cans that were available then, finally settling on a dt 990 which is what I was listening to up until a few months ago, now I have a T-1 and I really think it is the refined 990. Bring out the mids, tighten up the bass, thats about it. Any who, I was set to sell every thing the HA-2 and get back into speakers as heaphones just werent cutting it.  I had tried all sorts of different output tubes, I think I picked up my WE 421 for like $50 or $75 bucks and wasnt overly impressed. I think I actually liked the 7236 better but still not enough to keep it (but that might have been when I had my ms-pros). As a last ditch effort I bought a different rectifier just to see if it made any difference as Pete Millet actually didnt say it would make a big difference. I plugged in the GE or RCA $15 rectifier and if I had not already posted the HA-2 I would have not put it for sale. Everything cleared and tightened up. Made me satisfied for probably the very first time in my headphone quest.
  
 The engineer was wrong. Crazy stuff. Now I dont know if the rectifier was actually a mullard or chinese fake, but they make a difference. So thanks for the reviews Dubstep Girl.


----------



## BlueSundays

Yeah and unfortunately the old axiom is true. They dont make em like they used to. Somebody should learn to. The niche market isnt so niche any more....


----------



## Sonido

Here's another question: How does the amount of warmth provided from a tube DAC compare with a tube amp? I know there are different DACs and amps that vary in the amount of warmth, but what's the general answer to this?


----------



## Norway

Woo should hire you as their executive tube consultant!


----------



## Marks World

Much thanks DG for all the input and hard work.


----------



## magiccabbage

marks world said:


> Much thanks DG for all the input and hard work.


 
 and now she's selling all her tubes.,...........
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Or is she?


----------



## lojay

Thanks for the excellent and informative thread!
  
 Judging from DG's review and everyone's comments it appears the U52 CV575 is a better match for the WA5 + HD800 than the WE 422A. The WE is fetching outrageous prices on eBay recently. Since I am able to buy a pair of GEC U52 CV575 used for less than $250 I guess this is pretty much a no-brainer!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> Thanks for the excellent and informative thread!
> 
> Judging from DG's review and everyone's comments it appears the U52 CV575 is a better match for the WA5 + HD800 than the WE 422A. The WE is fetching outrageous prices on eBay recently. Since I am able to buy a pair of GEC U52 CV575 used for less than $250 I guess this is pretty much a no-brainer!


 
  
 i found that i enjoy the WE422A as much as the GEC with the HD 800, if you have other GEC tubes in your amp, maybe the U52 will be better. the 422A i think is superior still, but the GEC is slightly more euphonic, the 422A more clear and defined at times. 
  
 btw how can u find a pair for less than 250?!
  


magiccabbage said:


> and now she's selling all her tubes.,...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i think i will , if i do, there will be some very nice tubes up for sale, rectifiers and also 6as7g types. i kinda don't want to though and will try and keep them if possible. although i do need a new car.


----------



## lojay

These tubes usually go for about $600 a pair used where I live, but I guess the condition of this pair might not be that great. Seller says they're tested above NOS acceptable levels, which I take with a grain of salt. Will test for noise, shorts and gas personally before I buy. I do not think there are any other GEC U52 CV575s so I hope I'm buying the same thing you've reviewed. I'm willing to take the risk at this price


----------



## gavtorn

Hi Dub Step Girl,
  
 Thank you very much for posting you experiences with the different tubes.  I have been wanting to upgrade the rectifier on my Stratus for some time now, and the info you provided was perfect for helping me make the decision!
  
 I currently have an RCA blackbase but have just ordered a GEC on your reccomendation.
  
 Thanks again,
  
 cheers,
  
 gav


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gavtorn said:


> Hi Dub Step Girl,
> 
> Thank you very much for posting you experiences with the different tubes.  I have been wanting to upgrade the rectifier on my Stratus for some time now, and the info you provided was perfect for helping me make the decision!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 you're welcome!!
  
 please let me know what you think of the GEC, i hope i can buy a stratus one day and would love to use the GEC or WE422A over the EML alot of people seem to use.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> you're welcome!!
> 
> please let me know what you think of the GEC, i hope i can buy a stratus one day and would love to use the GEC or WE422A over the EML alot of people seem to use.


 
 might ask about that in the DNA thread


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> might ask about that in the DNA thread


 
  
 nope, out of the few stratus owners, as far as i know, none have tried them. and most seem to have only tried the easily available 5U4 types and the EML (probably to match the EML 2a3).
  
 btw, i tried a Tung Sol 5U4G the other day, i might add it to this review this weekend but it sounded ok, i don't think anything amazing though. the best regular 5U4G so far appears to be that 1940s RCA smooth black plate, nice warm sound with clean focused bass and doesnt really do anything wrong.
  
 would be nice to see if RK60 works with the Stratus.


----------



## TUBEBO

Thanks Dubstep Girl for a well written rectifier comparison.  Should become a great reference thread here. Great job!
  
 I would also like to add a often over-looked rectifier, a *Brimar ( STC ) 5V4G/CV729/GZ32*.  I have the CV version from 1955 and it is a pretty decent rectifier in the right applications. I have it in a stock 2012 Woo Audio WA6. combined with RCA 6FD7 "fat bottles", and 6SN7 ( using WA's adapters),  Ken-Rad 6SN7GT- VT231 and RCA 6SN7GT-VT231 grey glass tubes. I also have used a Amperex GZ34 ( 1957 ) and a Tung-Sol 5U4G from 1952.
  
 The Brimar 5V4G/CV729 has tight bass, goes pretty deep, just ever so slightly on the warm side of neutral on the mids, and some warmth ( slight roll-off? ) on the highs. Has a wide, horizontal soundstage, and nice space and definition. It betters the Tung-Sol in all areas except the clarity of the highs, and just about matches the deep end in punch and depth of the Amperex GZ34. Soundstage is better than both of the others by a wide margin. If you need a rectifier with a controlled but deep bass , and a "soft" top end, it's a very nice rectifier. The older 50's version has a square getter not unlike the early Brimar 5R4GY. That seems to matter to some.  
  
 A*lso, for what it's worth, the guide in the Woo Audio site and manual for the WA6 incorrectly refers to the 5V4G as directly heated. It is a indirectly heated type, ( slow ramp-up ).*


----------



## nwavesailor

The more common bottom getter Tung Sol 5U4G is indeed a so-so rectifier.
  
 The better (and costlier) version of the TS 5U4G is the top getter. I have one but can't say I have done a head to head with the 596, EML, or metal base GZ34.


----------



## Frank I

I personally never like the YTS rectifier 5U4G. I thought both the Sylvania and RXCVA 5U4G were both much better . I have plenty of both of those in the house.   I do like th e596 tubes and fortunately I found another pair en-route from England


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tubebo said:


> Thanks Dubstep Girl for a well written rectifier comparison.  Should become a great reference thread here. Great job!
> 
> I would also like to add a often over-looked rectifier, a *Brimar ( STC ) 5V4G/CV729/GZ32*.  I have the CV version from 1955 and it is a pretty decent rectifier in the right applications. I have it in a stock 2012 Woo Audio WA6. combined with RCA 6FD7 "fat bottles", and 6SN7 ( using WA's adapters),  Ken-Rad 6SN7GT- VT231 and RCA 6SN7GT-VT231 grey glass tubes. I also have used a Amperex GZ34 ( 1957 ) and a Tung-Sol 5U4G from 1952.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks! i was trying to find one of these for a good price, seems like an interesting tube. i know the CV593 (mullard version of gz32?) is very nice, i have to try it again to make sure i was hearing right, but it sounded extremely good, almost like a GEC tube with the tone and body as well as clarity.
  
  


nwavesailor said:


> The more common bottom getter Tung Sol 5U4G is indeed a so-so rectifier.
> 
> The better (and costlier) version of the TS 5U4G is the top getter. I have one but can't say I have done a head to head with the 596, EML, or metal base GZ34.


 
  
 interesting. ill have to look out for one perhaps. the bottom getter is the one i tried, and it wasn't bad, but it was kinda mediocre sounding.


----------



## Manoa1

Thanks Dubstep Girl. I'm a fairly new WA6 owner and up to now had been using a SG 5AR4 rectifier. Since the amp was second hand, it came with a number of other tubes so I popped in a Mullard GZ32. Wow, what an improvement. Comparitively more pleasant and neutral sounding. The soundstage and imaging sometimes makes it seem like my headphones disappear (if that makes sense).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

its a great tube!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow WE422A have really gone up....


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> wow WE422A have really gone up....




...... since the moment you started this thread......


----------



## Frank I

DG you are good for not only the community but also a reseller best friend.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> DG you are good for not only the community but also a reseller best friend.


 
  
  LOL so true! unfortunately the increase in demand makes these tubes very hard to find.
  
 btw I'm going to be posting a few tubes for sale soon actually as well as some other stuff cause my 03 corolla finally died on me and i need a new one to get me to work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  sucks cause i wanted to keep saving the tubes for future amp purchases, i guess i'll start by selling the ones i might not use that often.


----------



## Komuso

Any of the really good ones going on sale like the GEC U52?  Any other tubes you find go really well with the HD800?  You specifically mentioned the GEC U52 as one of them.  Maybe a cheaper alternative as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
 Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> ...i guess i'll start by selling the ones i might not use that often.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

komuso said:


>


 
  
 perhaps.
  
 i will try to keep at least 1 WE422A for myself, since i have 2 (i liked it so much i bought a spare)


----------



## Komuso

I may follow up on your suggestion of the Phillips 5R4GYS.  Reasonably priced.  I had the EML 5U4G at one point.  Can't really knock it as it was the best rectifier I had at one point.  However, it is kind of fun trying the NOS tubes.  Right now I have Mazda 5Y3GB, CBS 5U4GA, RCA 5U4GB, Valve Art 274B, and Bendix 6106.  
  
 People I talk to indicate that the rectifier will have less influence over sound than one's input or power tubes.  Do you all think it makes sense to spend so much on these uber expensive rectifiers rather than input our power tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

depends on the amp but i think it makes quite a difference in some, and less in others (like my WA2, the rectifier didn't really mean much), but it does on all the other tube amps i've tried.


----------



## mikemercer

dubstep girl said:


> depends on the amp but i think it makes quite a difference in some, and less in others (like my WA2, the rectifier didn't really mean much), but it does on all the other tube amps i've tried.


 
 GREAT work @Dubstep Girl !!!!
 Very informative. I had a blast diggin' into this as I've been doing more messing around with these types of tubes lately than ever before!
 Strange, considering I came from high end 2-channel roots - but many of the high end tube components I longed for were FAR too much $$$$!
  
 I'm in the midst of rolling 5AR4's on my ALO Studio Six (my PFO review HERE) and currently I'm really enjoying this Phillips tube I got from
 a friend. 
  
 I totally agree with you, that it all depends on the amp (whether the rectifier renders a sonic change) but when it does - you've provided some
 KILLER feedback! Hell, even if it doesn't! For a tube fan, as I am (and still learning) you gave me the best read I've had in weeks!
  
 Back to my ST6 and the new Burial EP!!


----------



## Bigsecret

dubstep girl said:


> nope, out of the few stratus owners, as far as i know, none have tried them. and most seem to have only tried the easily available 5U4 types and the EML (probably to match the EML 2a3).
> 
> btw, i tried a Tung Sol 5U4G the other day, i might add it to this review this weekend but it sounded ok, i don't think anything amazing though. the best regular 5U4G so far appears to be that 1940s RCA smooth black plate, nice warm sound with clean focused bass and doesnt really do anything wrong.
> 
> would be nice to see if RK60 works with the Stratus.


 
 Stratus owner here. I was about to purchase the EML 5U4G as you predicted (to go with 2a3 mesh plates and LCD3 phones). Then I saw your comparison in the nick of time…literally. I emailed Donald North about WE422A and he said it would work but would require re-wiring one of the pins. Instead I found a Marconi U52 at Tejas Tubes. 
  
 I listened on and off all weekend and couldn't get enough. In the first minute of listening the sound was so smooth and full I thought it was smearing the detail. Then I realized I was actually hearing more detail and more of everything. All the good stuff tubes do but not overblown. I had no idea a rectifier tube could make such a difference. Expensive but, to my ears, a lot of musical bang for the buck. And quite a nice match to the Stratus.


----------



## gavtorn

dubstep girl said:


> you're welcome!!
> 
> please let me know what you think of the GEC, i hope i can buy a stratus one day and would love to use the GEC or WE422A over the EML alot of people seem to use.


 
  
 I was a bit hesitant at the upgrade given the cost of a used tube(!) I have borrowed some expensive EML 2a3's to try in the stratus which is currently running Sophia Princess tubes - I didn't like the EML's at all so for me, more expensive does not always equal better sq .  But I also figure that if I didn't like the GEC in my setup I can sell it for around what it's worth and try something else..
  
 I have just done a quick comparison of the GEC vs. the RCA black base tube.  I have only had the GEC playing for an hour so it may still have some improving to do but I decided to do a quick swap to see if I could notice any changes in sq.
  
 DSG - I think your impressions are on the money.  I can hear what you mean about a higher quality tube providing better layering to the sound.  The mid range is a lot more open / transparent and makes the RCA sound a bit congested and the soundstage a bit more closed in.
  
 Compared to the stock 5U4g (shuguang?) that shipped with the stratus the RCA is a big upgrade.  The GEC is the same level of upgrade over the RCA again.
  
 Thanks again for your comparisons, made this an easy upgrade 
  
 cheers,
  
 gav.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gavtorn said:


> I was a bit hesitant at the upgrade given the cost of a used tube(!) I have borrowed some expensive EML 2a3's to try in the stratus which is currently running Sophia Princess tubes - I didn't like the EML's at all so for me, more expensive does not always equal better sq .  But I also figure that if I didn't like the GEC in my setup I can sell it for around what it's worth and try something else..
> 
> I have just done a quick comparison of the GEC vs. the RCA black base tube.  I have only had the GEC playing for an hour so it may still have some improving to do but I decided to do a quick swap to see if I could notice any changes in sq.
> 
> ...


 
  


bigsecret said:


> Stratus owner here. I was about to purchase the EML 5U4G as you predicted (to go with 2a3 mesh plates and LCD3 phones). Then I saw your comparison in the nick of time…literally. I emailed Donald North about WE422A and he said it would work but would require re-wiring one of the pins. Instead I found a Marconi U52 at Tejas Tubes.
> 
> I listened on and off all weekend and couldn't get enough. In the first minute of listening the sound was so smooth and full I thought it was smearing the detail. Then I realized I was actually hearing more detail and more of everything. All the good stuff tubes do but not overblown. I had no idea a rectifier tube could make such a difference. Expensive but, to my ears, a lot of musical bang for the buck. And quite a nice match to the Stratus.


 
  
  
 thanks for the impressions guys! I am definitely keeping the U52 for when I decide to go for the Stratus. As far as 5U4G, if the DNA amp doesn't support 422A (or even if it did, its endgame as far as rectifiers go). Im sure with a super transparent amp like the Stratus, the U52 will definitely be able to show itself!


----------



## jimdandy

Thank you Dubstep Girl for the work you did. When I get my income tax I'm going to get a WA6. Looking at tubes to get after I get it burned in. Rectifier as will as power. I hope you do a power tube comparison. Once again awesome work. Really helps a lot to a newbie like me. Hope you have happy holidays.


----------



## Josh05

Merry Christmas all! Thanks Dubstep Girl, after reading this I finally decided to upgrade the rectifier in my WA6 and what a difference it has made!  managed to pick this up for next to nothing off a retired electronics repairer locally. Can anyone tell me if it's a re labeld Mullard? I didn't get a box with it and also don't know how much use it's had but it sounds heaps better than the stock one that was in it 

EDIT: photo didn't upload off my phone so here it is.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hard to tell from the pic, not sure if its the mullard one or not but i think it is cause its philips branded.


----------



## SleepyOne

Looks like single 'O' getter so mullard maybe?


----------



## SMBuscemi

Dubstep Girl:

This is fantastic as it is prolific; much needed review here. I've been reading your stuff on here for a while and I like it a lot on the WA6-SE thread.

Can you tell me if the Western Electric 422A is your reference tube for the *WA6-SE*?

I've been looking at that one for a while and want to get my hands on one. 

Thank you kindly.


----------



## jimdandy

I agree I have learned a lot reading what she has said. Hours of reading but it is worth it to learn something new. Really has been helpful. She is a smart person.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

smbuscemi said:


> Dubstep Girl:
> 
> This is fantastic as it is prolific; much needed review here. I've been reading your stuff on here for a while and I like it a lot on the WA6-SE thread.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i did not own the 422A when I had the WA6-SE, but I know that it probably would be. it worked wonders with the WA22 and I think it would be awesome with the WA6-SE as well. as of now, my reference for the WA6-SE is the 596. Im sure the U52, 422A, GZ37 fat, or the GZ34 metal base would be able to take its place.


----------



## minimus

Funny, I tried a NOS Mullards in my WA22 and could tell no difference from the stock tube. I never really got the WA22 to sound wholly satisfactory. In fact, the Eddie Current Super 7 with the stock new issue 6SN7s sounded better out of the box than the WA22 ever did with any combination of NOS tubes I tried with it, including Mullards ECC32s, TS BGRP 6F8Gs, Chatham 5998s, and Bendix 6080s. And the S7 is less expensive, even accounting for tube rolling experimentation. Lesson learned: "rolling" amps is generally more economical and effective than rolling exotic, expensive tubes in lesser amps. The ECP Audio L-2, the Super 7, and the new Apex Teton, in my experience, are simply much better amps than the WA22 and a number of others I have owned. If the amp doesn't sound great out of the box, in my experience it will never sound like a great amp no matter how much is plowed into exotic NOS tubes to use in it, regardless of what Head-Fi enthusiasts claim. 

(In support of this contention, notice how many Head-Fiers seem to lead the charge in various tube rolling threads like this one, singing the praises of one tube over others who ultimately sell the relevant amp to move on to another amp entirely, suggesting they eventually found something more satisfying. DG Girl, in fact, started this thread and a few weeks later put up for sale most of the tubes described in it...Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the benefits of tube rolling.) 

My advice, having been involved in this hobby now for eight years and having owned nine amps at this point, is this: If an amp is not mind-blowing with the stock tubes, cut your losses and just move on until that initial condition is met. The same applies to tube preamps and power amps, as I have also owned another half dozen of those in my speaker system. Buying used or getting loaners from a builder limit the cost of doing this.


----------



## ardilla

minimus said:


> Funny, I tried a NOS Mullards in my WA22 and could tell no difference from the stock tube. I never really got the WA22 to sound wholly satisfactory. In fact, the Eddie Current Super 7 with the stock new issue 6SN7s sounded better out of the box than the WA22 ever did with any combination of NOS tubes I tried with it, including *Mullards ECC32s, TS BGRP 6F8Gs, Chatham 5998s, and Bendix 6080s. *And the S7 is less expensive, even accounting for tube rolling experimentation. Lesson learned: "rolling" amps is generally more economical and effective than rolling exotic, expensive tubes in lesser amps. The ECP Audio L-2, the Super 7, and the new Apex Teton, in my experience, are simply much better amps than the WA22 and a number of others I have owned. If the amp doesn't sound great out of the box, in my experience it will never sound like a great amp no matter how much is plowed into exotic NOS tubes to use in it, regardless of what Head-Fi enthusiasts claim.
> 
> (In support of this contention, notice how many Head-Fiers seem to lead the charge in various tube rolling threads like this one, singing the praises of one tube over others who ultimately sell the relevant amp to move on to another amp entirely, suggesting they eventually found something more satisfying. DG Girl, in fact, started this thread and a few weeks later put up for sale most of the tubes described in it...Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the benefits of tube rolling.)
> 
> My advice, having been involved in this hobby now for eight years and having owned nine amps at this point, is this: If an amp is not mind-blowing with the stock tubes, cut your losses and just move on until that initial condition is met. The same applies to tube preamps and power amps, as I have also owned another half dozen of those in my speaker system. Buying used or getting loaners from a builder limit the cost of doing this.


 
  
 Seems you didn't list any rectifiers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?


----------



## minimus

Yes, I really only tried two rectifiers, the stock one and a NOS Mullard 5AR4 that came highly recommended in one of the WA22 tube rolling threads. So maybe I missed out on turning the amp into something magical. I went down the tube rolling rabbit hole with the DNA Sonett, following owners' advice, and it was an unsatisfactory endeavor --the amp never sounded any good and I lost money when I resold the tubes.

Does this thread seem fishy to anyone else? It strikes me as a bit unethical that Dubstep Girl posted this review of her rectifier collection two weeks before putting the same collection up for sale. Nowhere does she say that she is about to sell the same expensive tubes that she is praising. In the world of finance, that's called "pump em and dump em".


----------



## Silent One

_Perhaps, if you read the previous page..._


----------



## jc9394

She has been mentioned selling the tubes to finance a new ride for a long while, way before posting the impression.


----------



## prosperone

I found the review very useful.  I'm very happy with my amp and the tubes which came with it.  That said, with fluctuating tube supplies and pricing I wanted to buy some backups for the future.  Instead of going with more new off the shelf Chinese tubes I went NOS.  The guide allowed me to choose based on someone's experiences.  I did double check DG's experiences with others on this site and the web.  I found them to be consistent if not more conservative in rating sound quality.  Has my sound quality changed drastically in one direction or the other - no.  Did I expect that it would, no. Just as in the differences between relatively equally priced DACS, Cords, isolation devices, headphones and moon rock needles, the differences are subtle.  The question of where in the sound supply chain you best put your dollars is valid.  The review and comparison of tubes as part of the sound supply chain is a huge service to us all, and I for one am very thankful for it.
  
 Back to the sweet sounds of the 596


----------



## Currawong

An on-topic post, which is actually WHY i came to this thread. This arrived yesterday. Not sure if it is or will be any improvement in the Studio Six, but I'll find out.


----------



## gavtorn

currawong said:


> An on-topic post, which is actually WHY i came to this thread. This arrived yesterday. Not sure if it is or will be any improvement in the Studio Six, but I'll find out.


 
  
 Interested to hear your thoughts on the amp + any benefit of the new tube


----------



## Bigsecret

I'm still amazed listening to Marconi U52 in my Stratus amp. NOT a subtle difference over the RCA 5U4G it replaced. Thanks, DG, for doing the homework for me (us).


----------



## Cobalt

Bought my first tube amp this year, Decware CSP2+. Initially I was wary about having to purchase tubes after purchasing the amp but I wanted to hear my headphones amped well. I've read Joe's Tube Lore on 6DJ8, 6922 and other sources online. I also found Lord Soth's review on rectifiers which was very helpful. After purchasing different tubes and comparing I am glad I purchased a tube amp. Reviews on different tubes have been very helpful. As far as rectifiers so far I've only tried a Valve Art 274B, Tung Sol 5AU4, and an RCA 5R4GY. Of the three I really liked the RCA 5R4GY, tried this one after reading Lord Soth's review on rectifiers. I have a Philips 5R4GYS on the way. Later I hope to try an RCA 5U4G and maybe a Mullard 5AR4 if I can find one reasonably priced. Thanks to all those who have reviewed tubes and shared their opinions.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bigsecret said:


> I'm still amazed listening to Marconi U52 in my Stratus amp. NOT a subtle difference over the RCA 5U4G it replaced. Thanks, DG, for doing the homework for me (us).


 
  





 the RCA 5U4G is a very nice tube, i was actually surprised with how well it performed for the price. the U52 is on another level though.
  
 im still saving some U52 i have for when I decide to buy a Stratus. I can only imagine it must be incredible, especially if paired with NOS Single Plate 2A3's


----------



## punit

Huh !, I am sure I posted this couple of pages back but its not there anymore ?? So here goes again ....
  
 Thanks DG for a sharing your knowledge. One of the most informative threads I have read on Head Fi. Much Obliged.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Thanks currawong deleted alot of posts


----------



## SMBuscemi

Dubstep Girl

I got my Western Electric 422A today for my WA6-SE, and rolled out the Sophia Primcess Woo-upgrade.

The one thing I noticed is that it isn't as *loud* as the Sophia. I'm using MS-Alessandro Pros with it and will use my HD800 tomorrow but I wanted to know if you think this could be a function of the tube's performance. Grades are all very easy to drive, so I'm a little concerned. 

Perhaps some break-in time is needed?

Thank you kindly for any assistance you can help me with.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

not sure what you mean by not as loud, you can just turn the volume up?
  
 i don't know how much a rectifier will affect gain, it should be about the same as with the sophia.


----------



## SMBuscemi

I meant gain. It doesn't pack the same punch. But the detail is amazing. I can see why this would be your reference. 

Could this be break in?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think what you're hearing is the slightly less bass on the 422A vs the sophia which is a pretty bassy tube. yeah it should be a more neutral and balanced tube. 
  
 and yes, its the best rectifier i've heard, incredible tube really. it has more depth detail and clarity than anything else out there.


----------



## SMBuscemi

That solves the problem then. Thank you kindly for your help again.


----------



## beancounter0

I'm curious; were adjustments made to the amp(s) used in the comparison in order to take into account the varying forward voltage drops of the different rectifiers?  Typically, a 5AR4 type has a low drop, giving a higher B+ voltage to the amp; a 5R4 a greater drop, with a 5U4G type somewhere in between.  Different B+ voltages make for different operating points; different operating points can make a BIG difference in sound.  Or not - depending upon the amp design.
  
 Also, indiscriminate rectifier swapping can have unpleasant results;
  
  - a 5AR4 pulls 2A filament current, a 5U4G pulls 3A.  Swapping in a 5U4G type in an amp designed for a 5AR4 might stress the power transformer, which on a consumer amp is likely not spec'd for the extra current.  Many vintage amp owners blew their power trans when substituting a 5U4 for the hard to find, expensive 5AR4 (particularly before Russian/Chinese tubes arrived on the scene).
  
  - some rectifiers are intolerant to high capacitance;  anything over 4uF, and you may (or may not) make a 5R4 grumpy enough to arc. [edit] - 4uF directly after the rectifier.
  
 [edit] - placing a 5AR4 in an amp designed with another rectifier might raise the B+ too high, potentially damaging other components (particularly electrolytic capacitors) if the design is close to the edge on component tolerances.  Put a 5AR4 in a Dynaco Mk2, and boom! goes the can cap (Don't ask...)
  
 For me, I buy expensive rectifiers when I have to;  for reliability, and protection of my investment. Expensive amp, then quality NOS rectifier. And yes, they typically sound better than current production, but a well designed power supply will sound good anyway.
  
 I think most rectifier differences folks hear are operating point changes.  Excluding branding/construction differences within the same tube type, of course.   My opinion only.
  
 Now, to really blow your mind - anybody try damper diodes?  My recent builds have used pairs of 6AX4's.  Love 'em!


----------



## Silent One

No minds blown 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here. We're using a pair of NOS 6AU4GTA damper diodes. The '2359glenn|studio' 300B mono blocks uses damper diodes as well.


----------



## SMBuscemi

I'm going to forward this to my friend at work who is an engineer and see what he has to say. Thank you for your input here.
  
 I'm relatively new and still learning.


----------



## beancounter0

smbuscemi said:


> I'm going to forward this to my friend at work who is an engineer and see what he has to say. Thank you for your input here.
> 
> I'm relatively new and still learning.


 
 I'm certainly no engineer...  I have just "played" with this stuff for a while.  Rolling your own is an incredible education.  Still learning, too - I really keep things pretty simple.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice informative post.
 It sums up what I understand happens with rectifiers.
  
Rectifiers can have a marked impact on sound in some amps and very little in others depending on the design.
The same happens with driver and output tubes in my experience.
Some amps respond more to tube rolling than others.
  
Keeping things simple is the way I like too.


----------



## ardilla

Anyone - Is this CV575 of mine is the same as the u52? Looks pretty identical - but it doesnt have the two wholes in the top plate as some other U52's have. It also sounds verygood - but nice to know for shure 
  

  

  

  
 Inscription looks like this CV575-KB/Z  (not my pic)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah its a U52 looks identical to mine.
  
 I have 2 U52/5U4G.
  
 one is black base, pan getter, and has the 2 holes in the top mica.
  
 other is the brown base, no holes on top mica, d getter.
  
 other than the holes in the mica, they are identically shaped. the getters change but the entire contruction of the tube is the same, the plates are identical and everything. 5 pins on bottom, etc.
  
 not sure on the getter on yours i cant see in the pic, but the plates and everything else on yours looks 100% identical to either of my U52, so the CV575 is definitely the same tube.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I hope to some day add the we274b to this list


----------



## punit

I am currently running my WA6 with an all Sophia set up, what kind of changes can I expect if I change the rectifier to a Mullard GZ32/CV593 or should I just stay with the Sophia?
  
 Thanks for any info.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Tighter sweeter more balanced sound. Better overall vs. sophia. Sophia will be smoother with fatter bass though. (Bass is more bloaty and one note on sophia unfortunately)


----------



## punit

Are the tubes in the link below the same as the Mullard GZ32 / CV593 / 5V4 listed in your comparision, the photos look a little different to the CV593 ?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2-Mullard-5V4G-equivalent-to-52KU-CV729-GZ32-5AQ4-/181305927817?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=VBMR35vAV5XSxygcsd0C6PHXXSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 I just bought them as they are listed as Mullard GZ32 & then realised that these are 5V4G & not 5V4. will these sound the same ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Similar but i dont think its the same that one says 175ma output, mine is only up to 125ma. Theres also another gz32 type out there that looks different and has different specs as well..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ32-CV593-TUBES-NOS-/360172677862


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> Similar but i dont think its the same that one says 175ma output, mine is only up to 125ma. Theres also another gz32 type out there that looks different and has different specs as well..


 
  
 ya , i saw those but these were nearly half that price & I didn't realise the diff until after I bought , So i guess they should have the same sound signature , more or less ?
  
 Edit:
 What does the 175ma output vs 125ma translate to ? Does it mean 175ma will have more gain ?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## catspaw

Awsome Work. 
  
 2 Bad i Aint got the cash for a decent tube amp.... Many those babies look really nice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> ya , i saw those but these were nearly half that price & I didn't realise the diff until after I bought , So i guess they should have the same sound signature , more or less ?
> 
> Edit:
> What does the 175ma output vs 125ma translate to ? Does it mean 175ma will have more gain ?
> ...




Just their max output for current, not necessarily gain but yeah, you need enough current for the other tubes to put out power. So depending on the amp, you might not have enough,


----------



## finaltheorem

I was watching an eBay auction today for a type 596 rectifier and was somewhat surprised to see it sell $310.  This is the first 596 I've seen listed on ebay since I began searching a month ago, and I'm curious to know if that is the standard price for NOS 596s presently.  Could anyone who's been keeping an eye on these longer than I have provide some insight?


----------



## dminches

I think that is the most it has gone for.  It is hardly worth it unless this is a tube you desperately need.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> I think that is the most it has gone for.  It is hardly worth it unless this is a tube you desperately need.


 
  
 +1
  
 200 is about the going price now and 250 would probably be as high as anyone should go. whoever paid 310 for it got ripped off, i would be sad to see it be a head-fier too.
  
 $320 can get you a Cossor GZ37 or a U52, and they are far superior to the 596. Also $320 is about what a metal GZ34 would go for (from cheaper sellers or for used tubes). and the gz34 is what i would consider the "upgrade" from the 596.


----------



## Frank I

I paid 100.00 each for my backup I bought.


----------



## jc9394

finaltheorem said:


> I was watching an eBay auction today for a type 596 rectifier and was somewhat surprised to see it sell $310.  This is the first 596 I've seen listed on ebay since I began searching a month ago, and I'm curious to know if that is the standard price for NOS 596s presently.  Could anyone who's been keeping an eye on these longer than I have provide some insight?




I have two pairs for sale, they are matched pair. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/696669/matched-596-ts-bgrp-6sn7-and-6f8g-gec-6as7g


----------



## snapontom

I have seen the price of the USAF 596 rise consistently since purchasing mine.  The price is what the market will bring.  I will not be selling mine, and I don't have a back up 596.  They are not easy to come by. I would not be surprised to see the price go higher.


----------



## SMBuscemi

I want to thank you so much for your recommendation. This NOS Western Electric 422A [274B 5U4G Sub] Rectifier is truly amazing!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

smbuscemi said:


> I want to thank you so much for your recommendation. This NOS Western Electric 422A [274B 5U4G Sub] Rectifier is truly amazing!!!


----------



## finaltheorem

dminches said:


> I think that is the most it has gone for.  It is hardly worth it unless this is a tube you desperately need.


 
  


dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> 200 is about the going price now and 250 would probably be as high as anyone should go. whoever paid 310 for it got ripped off, i would be sad to see it be a head-fier too.
> 
> $320 can get you a Cossor GZ37 or a U52, and they are far superior to the 596. Also $320 is about what a metal GZ34 would go for (from cheaper sellers or for used tubes). and the gz34 is what i would consider the "upgrade" from the 596.


 
  
 Thank you DG and dminches - I was willing to go $170 on that tube, but now I'll be considering other options.  Probably will end up with a princess, just for looks if nothing else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Thanks for your help and the awesome effort you put into sharing your experiences with the community


----------



## Frank I

When they get to the EML range then its time to look elsewhere for those tubes. I like them and have a backup pair but there are other tubes that do well with my amps too. I think I will roll the Princess 274B in this week to get a comparison.
  
 I am trying to find some more  Sylvania and RCA 5URG to keep stocking up a they are disappearing,


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> When they get to the EML range then its time to look elsewhere for those tubes. I like them and have a backup pair but there are other tubes that do well with my amps too. I think I will roll the Princess 274B in this week to get a comparison.
> 
> I am trying to find some more  Sylvania and RCA 5URG to keep stocking up a they are disappearing,


 
  
 i just gave away 2 sylvania 5u4g when i sold a bunch of my cheaper rectifiers all at once...
  
 i thought the sylvania 5u4g was kinda mediocre and only served as a nice budget tube, the rca 5u4g is really nice though.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i just gave away 2 sylvania 5u4g when i sold a bunch of my cheaper rectifiers all at once...
> 
> i thought the sylvania 5u4g was kinda mediocre and only served as a nice budget tube, the rca 5u4g is really nice though.


 
  
 Tried the Sylvania and TS 5U4G, they are mediocre like you said, I have not tried the RCA yet but the GZ34 sounded really good with Sylvania 7236.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> When they get to the EML range then its time to look elsewhere for those tubes. I like them and have a backup pair but there are other tubes that do well with my amps too. I think I will roll the Princess 274B in this week to get a comparison.
> 
> I am trying to find some more  Sylvania and RCA 5URG to keep stocking up a they are disappearing,


 
  
  
 I much prefer the 596 over EML and Princess.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I much prefer the 596 over EML and Princess.


 
  
 596 upgrade = GZ34 metal base (dynamic and cool)
  
 EML upgrade = GEC U52 (warm and euphonic yet clean)
  
 Sophia upgrade = Cossor GZ37 (Warm and full)
  
  
 the Cossor has a really nice full bass to it.


----------



## jc9394

That explains why I liked the metal based GZ34 so much.  When I had the WA22, I feel the Sophia is too forgiving and lost details compare to 596 or EML 5U4G and 274B.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> That explains why I liked the metal based GZ34 so much.  When I had the WA22, I feel the Sophia is too forgiving and lost details compare to 596 or EML 5U4G and 274B.


 
  
 yeah thats exactly how i would describe sophia.
  
 it sounds so different due to its bass and smooth treble/forgiving nature.
  
 the bass becomes a little too much at times and one-noted and the treble adds a sort of veil, not as resolving. it works best with brighter headphones
  
 the really good thing about sophia though is soundstage, its not bad at all.
  
  
  
 oh and then theres the WE422A......


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yeah thats exactly how i would describe sophia.
> 
> it sounds so different due to its bass and smooth treble/forgiving nature.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 One good thing about the Sophia I like is my old school 128 bits collection from ages ago sound really good especially old school rap.  
  
 I really need to try out the WE422A and U52, maybe when I get the next level Glenn amp.  A 5U4G, C3g, and 300B...


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> I much prefer the 596 over EML and Princess.


 
 Only heard the EML briefly and have to used the Princes sin this WA5 so dont know what I would. like better.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> i just gave away 2 sylvania 5u4g when i sold a bunch of my cheaper rectifiers all at once...
> 
> i thought the sylvania 5u4g was kinda mediocre and only served as a nice budget tube, the rca 5u4g is really nice though.


 
 Too bad I would bought them. I like them /. They have good bass and have a good sense of air with them. I am using one in the WA6 SE thats here now. I have a few and more RCA than the Sylvania and they are both disappearing and becoming mor expensive to get them. I been using 596 in my WA5 an have a second pair of them. I really dont swap tubes much and have the  VT99 I bought from you in the WA5 now and been using those  and will stay with those for a long while and they are quiet in this amp. I have three pairs of those in round and flat plates for backup and 2 pairs of Sylvania VT99 and multiple pairs of all types of 6SN7 so I dont need any more tubes for a long while. Can use another pair of 300B but love the sound of the EML and I dont really roll much in my amps any more
  
 Listening to the HE6 on my WA5 now and just love the combination.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> One good thing about the Sophia I like is my old school 128 bits collection from ages ago sound really good especially old school rap.
> 
> I really need to try out the WE422A and U52, maybe when I get the next level Glenn amp.  A 5U4G, C3g, and 300B...


 

 My new 300B amp use TV damper diodes for the rectifiers not the 5U4


----------



## jc9394

Even better, no need for the expensive rectifiers...


----------



## omoanya

I was looking for the Gz37 and found it here for much less than you have listed.  Is it because its NOS ?   Can you tell me where one might find reputable dealers for these tubes ?
 Thanks


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Even better, no need for the expensive rectifiers...


 
  
 I'm on TV damper diodes too, and off the rolling rectifier wagon...


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, the 300B is expensive enough. Good thing I have two pairs of C3g now, should last me a life time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

...


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> i have a Cossor GZ37 for sale if you are interested. its the nicer fat base version


----------



## snapontom

Ok, Ok?  I have been doing some critical listening today.  Tomorrow I get my camera back!  I have a tripod.  Pictures forthcoming.  Listening, listening to a Decca release of Joseph Haydn Symphonie Nr. 92 G-dur,, Oxford.  Ok, ok?  I would not sell my USAF 596 for $596.  I would not sell at $1200.  The resolution of the violins is impeccable.  It looks like it has double thick glass too!  Btw I am running it on the Taboo MKII.


----------



## Silent One

This is my finding with Cello, too. My USAF-596 stays!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll sell mine for $1200. shoot me a PM.


----------



## rosgr63

I'll sell mine for $596 and buy alternatives which sound as good in my systems for $20


----------



## Silent One

I don't have to worry about selling one of mine.... I can't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 find it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lost inside the storage unit.
  
 Two to three remain safely tucked away.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> *18. Mullard GZ32/CV593/5V4*
> 
> Similar to the other rectifiers, this is another Mullard made tube labeled as CV593 and having a brown base. I believe there is a black base version and several variations of this tube out there. Mine was purchased from Upscale Audio since they seem to have a good supply of them and easily available. As soon as I put this tube in, I was surprised at how good it sounded! Personally, this is near the top of the list amongst the other really good sounding tubes. Transparent, tight-bass, beautiful midrange with a sweet tone, euphonic warmth and tube sound without losing any detail or resolution, vocals are amazing! Great extension in all directions and a great soundstage and image with great depth. Decay and timbre are very natural and musicality is very good. Sound overall is similar to the U52 and the other British tubes; amazing! This tube only cost me around 60$ and is readily available online. If your amp is compatible with them, buy them, performs much better than the price suggests!


 
 Got the Mullard 5V4G yesterday. Which should be similar to the one above ?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2-Mullard-5V4G-equivalent-to-52KU-CV729-GZ32-5AQ4-/181305927817?nma=true&si=VBMR35vAV5XSxygcsd0C6PHXXSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 As DG mentions : " Transparent, tight-bass, beautiful midrange with a sweet tone, euphonic warmth and tube sound without losing any detail or resolution"
 & it cost only $ 45 each shipped.  I really like the Sophia but seems so overpriced compared to this.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Got the Mullard 5V4G yesterday. Which should be similar to the one above ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2-Mullard-5V4G-equivalent-to-52KU-CV729-GZ32-5AQ4-/181305927817?nma=true&si=VBMR35vAV5XSxygcsd0C6PHXXSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, I'm interested in purchasing this tube for my WA6. I went to the link you posted, which took me to eBay. Is this where you purchased the tube from?
 If not, would you please post the link where I can purchase this same tube?
 Also I have the S/P 274B, do you? If yes, how would you say they compare? Sorry for all of the questions, thanks.


----------



## punit

Yes, I got it from Ebay. I will do an A/B tomorrow with the SP & let you know exactly , don't want to do a comparison from memory. It been a few days since I heard the Sophia's.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Yes, I got it from Ebay. I will do an A/B tomorrow with the SP & let you know exactly , don't want to do a comparison from memory. It been a few days since I heard the Sophia's.


 
 Are planning to use this in the WA6? Thanks.


----------



## punit

Yes. Using it on WA6


----------



## joseph69

I just realized I looked at those and had them saved to my favorites.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Yes. Using it on WA6


 
 Thanks for reminding me about these tubes.
 I contacted the seller and bought (1) from him for $45.00 shipped.
 Please let us know your impressions between the S/P-274B and Mullard 5V4G when you get the chance. Thanks again.


----------



## punit

I also want to burn them in for about 30-40 hours before doing any comparison, will keep you updated.


----------



## punit

Someone's selling a pair of USAF 596 in the F/S T forum, but I need only one. Will someone be willing to buy the pair jointly with me (I take one & U take one) ?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/696669/matched-596-ts-bgrp-6sn7-and-6f8g-gec-6as7g


----------



## snapontom

guitarplayer.com has an informative article entitled "All About Rectifiers" by Dave Hunter which gave me more insight as to their function.  I learned that the transformer feeds AC voltage into the rectifier which turns that voltage into the pure DC voltage needed by the output tubes to function.  Depending on the rectifier, the voltage leaving the rectifier is increased to different degrees.  The article speaks of SS rectification and tube rectification and the effect of each on the sound produced.  A good read.
 Are any of you aware of information provided by rectifier manufacturers that details how much gain in voltage a specific rectifier will produce?


----------



## Ultrainferno

punit said:


> Someone's selling a pair of USAF 596 in the F/S T forum, but I need only one. Will someone be willing to buy the pair jointly with me (I take one & U take one) ?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/696669/matched-596-ts-bgrp-6sn7-and-6f8g-gec-6as7g


 
  
 The seller is a good guy, you have no worries
 Do you know there is a 596 on ebay as well?


----------



## punit

Yes but I am not in the US & it has only US shipping.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> The seller is a good guy, you have no worries
> Do you know there is a 596 on ebay as well?




+1


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Someone's selling a pair of USAF 596 in the F/S T forum, but I need only one. Will someone be willing to buy the pair jointly with me (I take one & U take one) ?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/696669/matched-596-ts-bgrp-6sn7-and-6f8g-gec-6as7g


 
  
  
 That is my listing, the reason I'm not selling single is I will keep the match pair for my future amp if needed a pair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Like the pair i sold. Eventually a wa5 or speaker amp buyer will need a pair and they will sell.

Im surprised yours havent sold yet


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Like the pair i sold. Eventually a wa5 or speaker amp buyer will need a pair and they will sell.
> 
> Im surprised yours havent sold yet


 
  
  
 No idea, maybe the buyer don' like me.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> No idea, maybe the buyer don' like me.


 
  





 You've flat-out given me some of the greatest transaction experience on Head-Fi... _ever._


----------



## punit

joseph69 said:


> Please let us know your impressions between the S/P-274B and Mullard 5V4G when you get the chance. Thanks again.


 
 Here are my amateur comparison notes between the 2 . System used :- Mac Mini running Pure Music (Wave files) - Weiss Int 202 - Audio GD NFB 7 DAC - WA6 (TS 6SNTGT drivers) - TH 900 :
  

5V4G has more clarity , better top end extension but not sibilant,
Bass sounds better on 5V4G, quantity is same but better "texture".
Gain is same.
Sound stage seems a tiny bit wider on the SP , maybe by 5% (very minor)
5V4G is more FUN, SP is more laid back
  
 I was a bit underwhelmed when I first saw the 5V4G, its half the size of the SP. But value wise it stomps over the SP ($160 vs $ 45).


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Here are my amateur comparison notes between the 2 . System used :- Mac Mini running Pure Music (Wave files) - Weiss Int 202 - Audio GD NFB 7 DAC - WA6 (TS 6SNTGT drivers) - TH 900 :
> 
> 
> 5V4G has more clarity , better top end extension but not sibilant,
> ...


 
 I also use 1966 Sylvania 6SN7WGT's with my WA6, which I think sound nice, I also like the RCA 6EW7. I tried the 6GL7/6EM7's, which was too bass heavy for me, but did make a big difference in the gain though. 
Thanks for your first impressions.
 Mine 5V4G was shipped out yesterday, and whether I like it or not when I listen too it, if what your saying about the way it sounds, (which sound good) for $45.00 sounds like a steal!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Here are my amateur comparison notes between the 2 . System used :- Mac Mini running Pure Music (Wave files) - Weiss Int 202 - Audio GD NFB 7 DAC - WA6 (TS 6SNTGT drivers) - TH 900 :
> 
> 
> 5V4G has more clarity , better top end extension but not sibilant,
> ...





Guess what i heard with the gz32/cv593 holds true, it sounds incredibly good for the price.

Good news is that it still is cheap and theres tons of them available. I almost think of it as a mini U52, since it has a similar sound


----------



## jc9394

joseph69 said:


> I also use 1966 Sylvania 6SN7WGT's with my WA6, which I think sound nice, I also like the RCA 6EW7. I tried the 6DE7, which was too bass heavy for me, but did make a big difference in the gain though.
> Thanks for your first impressions.
> Mine 5V4G was shipped out yesterday, and whether I like it or not when I listen too it, if what your saying about the way it sounds, (which sound good) for $45.00 sounds like a steal!


 
  
 Try 6FD7, it is the best bang for bucks on WA6.  I can't tell the difference between RCA and Sylvania.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> Try 6FD7, it is the best bang for bucks on WA6.  I can't tell the difference between RCA and Sylvania.


 
 This is going to be my next purchase. The problem is that I want the driver tubes that I have in the WA6 to burn-in completely, and I would like to enjoy them for a while before switching to new tubes, but this is my next tube purchase, thanks.


----------



## playitloud

I have a question, maybe anyone here can help me out. How can you distinguish between a 5U4G (vt244) tube and a 274B. Example, how do I know I deal with a genuine Sylvania 274B when there is no marking on the glass and on the base itself. Sylvania also makes almost similar looking rectifiers, e.g. the 5U4G (VT244). Hope someone can help....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pictures


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Try 6FD7, it is the best bang for bucks on WA6.  I can't tell the difference between RCA and Sylvania.


 

 *6FD7*
 *4.00*

  
  


 http://www.vacuumtubes.net/index.html  $4 bucks each


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> *6FD7*
> *4.00*
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Frank, how are you?
 Who's brand are these tubes?
 Thanks.


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> Hey Frank, how are you?
> Who's brand are these tubes?
> Thanks.


 
 not sure but call dale and ask him he has various brands if those tubes and he will match them for you


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> not sur ebut call dale and ask him he has various brands if those tubes and he will match them for you


 
 Thank you very much, as always!


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> Thank you very much, as always!


 
 your welcome and glad I could help


----------



## playitloud

dubstep girl said:


> pictures


 
 OK, here is a picture. Is this a 274b or a 5U4G (Vt244) tube, and why, or how can you see that from the internal construction of the tube?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i dont think that 274b had smooth plates
  
 also how many pins?
  
 274b/5u4g look similar but that looks more like 5u4g to me. also i dont know if any 274b sylvanias where rebranded NU


----------



## playitloud

dubstep girl said:


> i dont think that 274b had smooth plates
> 
> also how many pins?
> 
> 274b/5u4g look similar but that looks more like 5u4g to me. also i dont know if any 274b sylvanias where rebranded NU


 
  
 Thanks, I skip on this one, but then I need your advise once more. I now have settled on my rectifiers for my amp: WE422a and Mullard GZ37 (Big Botlle). I have tried the WE422a in my DAC but for some reason, it does not quite work there as well as in my amplifier. The WE 422a has the most spacious, detailed and coherent sound of all rectifiers I know. The Mullard GZ37 (big bottle) is to me a bass monster, deep, fast, defined and dynamic., and no slouch on the rest, but clearly not in the WE422a league.
  
 Now I have to settle on the rectifier in my Dac (lampizator Dac 4 gen. 4). I have tried: Amperex buggle boy GZ34 (black base); Sophia Electric 274b (mesh plate); and RCA 5R4gy (1944, dark brown base), and some other cheaper ones.
  
 The GZ34 is good for rock ‘n roll. It is clear, and dynamic, Good bass  but in my dac a bit dry and that does not suit classical music well.
  
 Sophia 274b mesh; barely fits in my dac. I completely agree with your description here. I like its soundstage, air, tone (timbre of instruments), dynamics  and forward vocals. But, with the Fostex TH900, the mid bass hump spoils it a bit, especially because it is not well defined in my DAC.
  
 RCA 5R4Gy (1944 dark brown base). Impressive soundstage, very airy and detailed (more so than the Sophia  274B mesh). For instance, best  off all three in separating the different string sections of the orchestra. The problem I have with this one is that although your hear all the different instruments very clearly, it is not coherent. The Western Electric 422a is equally detailed but also coherent. In my opinion the RCA lacks that capability in my dac. Furthermore, it is a little too bas light and sharp, it lacks a bit of tone so to speak.
  
 Normally, I would go for the GEC U52, but that one does not fit in my dac (at least the Mullard GZ37 big bottle does not fit, and I think these are equal in size to the GEC, correct?).Generally, I am searching for something  with a detailed and coherent midrange that has the soundstage of the Sophia or RCA, the tone, dynamics and air of the Sophia, and the bass of the GZ34.
  
 I am using it in my dac, so current is not a problem…What would you advise me.. Personally, I am thinking of buying either the Brimar 5R4gy, or the Mullard GZ32, but maybe there are others that I overlook. How do the Brimar and Mullard GZ32 compare in terms of midrange detail, coherency, soundstage, air, dynamics, and bass. Hope you can give me some direction. Thanks.
  
 UPDATE: I have found a way to fit the bigger rectifiers in my DAC. I just needed to replace the first cap a little bit (was easy). I ordered a NOS 1951 black base GEC tube for decent money. Its now on its way. Lets hope they rightly earned their reputation.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

playitloud said:


> Thanks, I skip on this one, but then I need your advise once more. I now have settled on my rectifiers for my amp: WE422a and Mullard GZ37 (Big Botlle). I have tried the WE422a in my DAC but for some reason, it does not quite work there as well as in my amplifier. The WE 422a has the most spacious, detailed and coherent sound of all rectifiers I know. The Mullard GZ37 (big bottle) is to me a bass monster, deep, fast, defined and dynamic., and no slouch on the rest, but clearly not in the WE422a league.
> 
> Now I have to settle on the rectifier in my Dac (lampizator Dac 4 gen. 4). I have tried: Amperex buggle boy GZ34 (black base); Sophia Electric 274b (mesh plate); and RCA 5R4gy (1944, dark brown base), and some other cheaper ones.
> 
> ...





I agree with everything you said, your descriptions of the tubes fit mine exactly. The fat bottle gz37 is very nice, tons of bass yet refined, but not we422a territory. (It does everything alot better than cheaper bassy rectifiers though).

And i also did not like the rca 5r4gy that much, huge soundstage but not coherent and seemed too treble happy for my tastes. The dark brown base is also the best version of that 5r4gy. I still dont think its as detailed as we422a, or rather the 422a is more layered, transparent, euphonic, and presents the air in a more refined manner, its really beautiful sounding and presents music in a very vivid way. 

Seems like if you can get the U52, that would be the best choice, its not as big as the fat bottle gz37. Also the next best would be the mullard gz32/cv 593 available from upscale audio or ebay. Similar sound, great british sound of the u52, its pretty much a baby u52 any way you look at it. I really think its an underrated tube.

If you do get the U52 to work, its almost as good as 422a if not as good


----------



## Snips

Thanks for the write up. It's very informative. I managed to find and buy a smooth plate version of the RCA 5U4G. A bit on the pricey side though.


----------



## Josh05

josh05 said:


>


 
 Hey guys I've done a comparison between a few 5AR4/GZ34's i own. The one above, i brought around Christmas, the others below that i picked up last week. It's only a brief comparison but might help some people looking to buy one of these tubes...
  
 I'll ranks them first then explain my reasons below.
  
 1, Philips 5AR4 (no other markings)
 2. fat bottle only marked with "5AR4 GZ34 USA"
 3. Mullard (code reads F33 89A1)
  
 The Philips i have seems to sound more refined, by this i mean better texture and smoother transients than the other two. Detail retrieval seems about on par with the Mullard, maybe a tad better and defiantly better than the fat bottle but neither are that far behind each other.
  
 The fat bottle one if anything might have a tad wider sound stage than the other two (really not sure whether I'm imagining this or not). Although not as detailed as the other two, it beats the Mullard in a few aspects I'll mention below.
  
 The Mullard was a tad disappointing compared to the other two, its treble seems to be not as smooth as the other two and it doesn't have as smooth transients either. It's quite noticeably, less refined sounding than the other two.
  
 I know these are all very similar tubes but this is my honest impressions, i think the Philips might be the oldest out of them, that might explain why it sounds better? The Mullard is the one with 7 notches while the Philips has no notches, as far as i know, the ones with no notches are the oldest.


----------



## SleepyOne

On the 5AR4 GZ34 USA and the mullard, could you described the ring thing on the top. So for instance on the philips, it looks like a single O ring.


----------



## Josh05

All three have the single O ring. The fat bottle one is rounder.


----------



## playitloud

The U52 inverted cup getter was just what the doctor ordered for my Lampizator Dac. In my DAC though I can use all rectifiers both directly and indirectly heated as long as they have heaters on pins 8-2 and high voltage anodes on pins 4-6. I have tried many (Sophia Electric 274b, RCA 5R4G (1944); Sylvania 5R4gy; Amperex GZ34 (black base); some Russian 5Y3 types and of course the GZ37 big bottle, and WE422a). Both the WE422a and GZ37 big bottle did not work well in the DAC. For some reason they had a hard edge. Something that is absolutely not present when used in my 300B amplifier which demands a GZ37 type of rectifier (the WE422a belongs to that category, almost similar specs and indirectly heated. I can safely say that the GEC U52 inverted cup getter is by far the best in my DAC. I again agree completely with the description of  Dubstep girl, this tube is very transparent and detailed but also coherent (this is something the RCA 5R4gy lacks in my opinion). It majors on tone and timbre. But what really staggered me was its dynamic behavior. Now I believe this is not per definition a GEC U52 trait (maybe Dubstep girl can chime in here), but maybe more a case of a good fit between DAC and rectifier (even though the designer favors the 5Y3 and GZ34).
  
 What I mean with dynamic behavior is this. The GEC U52 sounds vey refined and elegant when musical passages are like that, but it can change in the blink of an eye into a snarling beast the moment the music demands that. This is different from the RCA 5R4G and Sophia Electric 274b for instance. The RCA is ‘refined’ even in dynamic passages, and the Sophia 274b is always a bit dynamic even if the musical passages are not. It is difficult to explain, but  these tubes keep their signature irrespective of changes in music. The GEC U52 is a chameleon, and this also translates in ‘dynamic level’. With the GEC U52 the dynamic contrast between soft and loud passages are much higher than with the other types I tried. It makes the music very intense and exciting. Vocals are incredible. So easy to understand what they are singing, so easy to follow the dynamic nuances of their singing. Presence of voices is really great. It also means that you hear a much greater contrast between different pieces of music and different recordings. Fortunately, it does not destroy bad recordings. I can still play and enjoy recordings for begin eighties without feeling annoyed by the treble and the lack of bass. The GEC has good tone. That helps. But the Sophia 274b for instance, adds some (artificial) weight to these recordings that makes it more enjoyable.
  
 I have to say that what I said about the GEC U52 in my DAC also applies to the WE422a in my amp. Especially when compared to the Mullard GZ37 big bottle. The WE422a is also very fast, light on its feet, and great in dynamic contrast. At first, I thought it lacked a bit in the bass compared to the GZ37 big bottle. I now have to admit that I was wrong.  The WE422a is more honest. If the music lacks bass you will hear no bass, but the moment there is deep bass in the music you will hear is as well. The Mullard GZ37 big bottle always adds some weight irrespective of the recording. The Mullard GZ37 is also more smooth, maybe even a bit lush. It is not as fast, hence it lacks the impact of dynamic changes in the music compared to the WE422a. That being said I still love it. The Mullard makes the  music more beautiful than it really is. It is a charmer, but it still has great bass, and that adds to the fun, especially with the Fostex TH-900. I do not care if it is artificial I like it. There is no doubt in my mind that the WE422a is the better rectifier than the GZ37 big bottle, it just is. But, I know I will use the GZ37 big bottle every other month just to enjoy it charms that work wonders with recordings that need a bit of help, and many recordings do. Again I really love the bass on this one. The combination Mullard GZ37 big bottle combined with the Fostex TH-900 is just a great match and big fun.
  
 Thank you Dubstep girl for your impressive comparison. I can safely say, that you are right on the money with your descriptions of the rectifiers I tried. And many others have confirmed this. That makes this comparison of rectifiers even more valuable than it already was.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

playitloud said:


> The U52 inverted cup getter was just what the doctor ordered for my Lampizator Dac. In my DAC though I can use all rectifiers both directly and indirectly heated as long as they have heaters on pins 8-2 and high voltage anodes on pins 4-6. I have tried many (Sophia Electric 274b, RCA 5R4G (1944); Sylvania 5R4gy; Amperex GZ34 (black base); some Russian 5Y3 types and of course the GZ37 big bottle, and WE422a). Both the WE422a and GZ37 big bottle did not work well in the DAC. For some reason they had a hard edge. Something that is absolutely not present when used in my 300B amplifier which demands a GZ37 type of rectifier (the WE422a belongs to that category, almost similar specs and indirectly heated. I can safely say that the GEC U52 inverted cup getter is by far the best in my DAC. I again agree completely with the description of  Dubstep girl, this tube is very transparent and detailed but also coherent (this is something the RCA 5R4gy lacks in my opinion). It majors on tone and timbre. But what really staggered me was its dynamic behavior. Now I believe this is not per definition a GEC U52 trait (maybe Dubstep girl can chime in here), but maybe more a case of a good fit between DAC and rectifier (even though the designer favors the 5Y3 and GZ34).
> 
> What I mean with dynamic behavior is this. The GEC U52 sounds vey refined and elegant when musical passages are like that, but it can change in the blink of an eye into a snarling beast the moment the music demands that. This is different from the RCA 5R4G and Sophia Electric 274b for instance. The RCA is ‘refined’ even in dynamic passages, and the Sophia 274b is always a bit dynamic even if the musical passages are not. It is difficult to explain, but  these tubes keep their signature irrespective of changes in music. The GEC U52 is a chameleon, and this also translates in ‘dynamic level’. With the GEC U52 the dynamic contrast between soft and loud passages are much higher than with the other types I tried. It makes the music very intense and exciting. Vocals are incredible. So easy to understand what they are singing, so easy to follow the dynamic nuances of their singing. Presence of voices is really great. It also means that you hear a much greater contrast between different pieces of music and different recordings. Fortunately, it does not destroy bad recordings. I can still play and enjoy recordings for begin eighties without feeling annoyed by the treble and the lack of bass. The GEC has good tone. That helps. But the Sophia 274b for instance, adds some (artificial) weight to these recordings that makes it more enjoyable.
> 
> ...




Thank you! And yes, the U52 i think is easily one of the best rectiifiers out there along with 422a, as long as it works well with the amp/dac it goes into

The gz37 is definitely one of the better tubes especially for bass, i personally see it as an upgrade over a sophia, which is also bassy but not refined.


----------



## TUBEBO

I posted here a few months back after reading Dubstep Girls excellent rectifier comparisons. I have a Woo Audio WA6 with the 6SN7 adapters and prefer the 6SN7 sound.  Since that post, I purchased a NOS *Mullard GZ32* ( 1955 vintage w/ square getter ) in it's military version, CV593. I have read some claims that the older 1950's with the sq getter sound better, but I have no direct comparison to back that claim with. I will say it is every bit as good as claimed by many here and that Dubsteps comments on this rectifier are spot on - no need to describe it as Dubstep nailed it!
  
 I also currently have a Brimar 5V4G / CV729 military issue ( also 1955 ) and a RCA 5R4GY, a 1945 dark brown base smooth plate. Both take a back seat to the Mullard for my tastes.
  
 The *RCA 5R4GY* has a killer wide and deep soundstage with added depth to acoustics. It seems to add some reverb and slight delay, creating a nice presentation to large orchestral music, but the bass is recessed and the top end _exaggerated_.  It does work well when combined with a pair of 1944 RCA 6SN7 VT231 smoke glass tubes that are known for a overly smooth and rich "tubey" sound. This helps tame the high end brightness of the RCA 5R4GY and thickens the midrange to help out the 5R4GY's somewhat thin midrange. This combo sounds great for classical large symphonic recordings.
  
 The *Brimar 5V4G* is a very close 2nd to the Mullard GZ32.  It has tighter bass and goes deeper than the Mullard, but the upper bass/lower mids are a bit more recessed in comparison to the Mullard, so it's a bit more neutral sounding.  The highs are also a tad more extended over the Mullard GZ32, but they are not harsh. The Brimar also sounds a bit faster vs the Mullard.  However, the Mullard has a deeper soundstage and just an overall more musical presentation, at least in my setup. I do like the Brimar when used with a pair of 1945 Ken-Rad 6SN7's which have great bass slam, and are punchy sounding. That combo works great for rock and electronic stuff.
  
  
 But for all my everyday listening, the Mullard GZ32 just sounds "right".  It adds a good full body sound with good dynamics.  I use it with a pair of Brimar mid-fifties clear glass 6SN7GT and listen most of the time to my LP's with this combo.  I am happy I read Dubstep's great review on the Mullard GZ32 as it helped me make the decision to get one. Highly recommended for the going price on these.


----------



## Khragon

Dubstep Girl, thanks for the comprehensive comparison, the guide really helped me get started on my tube rolling journey.
  
 I've been comparing between GZ34 metal base and Sophia princess, and wanted to share my experience with you guys to see if I'm accurate and hopefully improve my vocabulary.  I listened almost exclusively to vocal (60/40 female/male). What I found is that the Sophia is generally louder, and has a higher mid range gain, while the GZ34 bass and treble is cleaner, sound stage is about the same for both, with GZ34 taking slight edge, possibly due to the reduce mid range..  I'm leaning toward the GZ34, but still I found it doesn't provide that smooth "tubey" vocal sound.. any recommendation?  I'm listening on LCD2r2 using Woo Audio WA6SE with stock power/drive (6DE7, my 6DF7 is coming from woo).
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

GZ32 /CV593


----------



## TUBEBO

KMSV: Ditto Dubstep Girls recommendation of the GZ32/CV593 ( in a Mullard ).  I have a Woo Audio WA6 and had a Amperex/Mullard 1958 GZ34 and I prefer the GZ32 due to it's wonderful warm mid-range.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks DG, TUBEBO.
  
 Ordered Mullard GZ32 from Upscale Audio, it doesn't hurt that it's cheaper than the two tubes I have already purchased.  If this work out I'll put the other two up for sale.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## kchew

I did it. I gave in and got myself a Western Electric 422A. It arrived a few days ago and it has spent only a few hours in my WA22, so I don't have detailed impressions yet. But right now I rank it among the greats like the 596, CV378 Big Bottle and EML 5U4G Mesh. Now that I have gotten the rectifier itch again, perhaps it's time to start huntin for a U52 as well?
  
 And another great thing about the WE422A? Not only does it sound good, it looks good at night as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

kchew said:


> I did it. I gave in and got myself a Western Electric 422A. It arrived a few days ago and it has spent only a few hours in my WA22, so I don't have detailed impressions yet. But right now I rank it among the greats like the 596, CV378 Big Bottle and EML 5U4G Mesh. Now that I have gotten the rectifier itch again, perhaps it's time to start huntin for a U52 as well?
> 
> And another great thing about the WE422A? Not only does it sound good, it looks good at night as well.




Kchew!!!

Your original wa22 rectifier shootout was one of the reasons i decided to seek out some of these rare and well overlooked/forgotten tubes! 
Congrats on buying the we422a, would love to hear your impressions, i personally think the 422a took the wa22 to the next level, the tube is a on a level all to itself with the u52, only the cv378 fat bottle and metal mullard gz34 coming close behind.

Have you noticed how bright the 422a's glow is compared to other tubes? (Especially older grey plate version), it was very impresssive to see the glow, really nice!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

how much is the 422a going for these days? Any increase in price?


----------



## Silent One

@ kchew





  
 @ Dubstep Girl
 Really enjoyed his Rectifier shootout! Equally enjoyed yours that followed...


----------



## Snips

kchew said:


> I did it. I gave in and got myself a Western Electric 422A. It arrived a few days ago and it has spent only a few hours in my WA22, so I don't have detailed impressions yet. But right now I rank it among the greats like the 596, CV378 Big Bottle and EML 5U4G Mesh. Now that I have gotten the rectifier itch again, perhaps it's time to start huntin for a U52 as well?
> 
> And another great thing about the WE422A? Not only does it sound good, it looks good at night as well.


 
  
 Countryman! Did you get your 422A off ebay or did you find some obscure little store here to get tubes?


----------



## kchew

Thanks guys, this WE422A was the very last piece from vacuumtubes.com, I paid much less than what Evilbay is asking for as it is used but tests strong and has a repaired base and loose glass chunks inside. It might be worth it to start asking online retailers, you never know what you might find! Proper impressions from me would have to wait till next month as I will be going overseas for some time soon.

And yes, the glow is the brightest among the rectifiers I have. EML 5U4G has a nice filament but is just above average in brightness. CV378 big bottle was previously the brightest with two exposed filaments, but now this has overthrown it. And if look at the full resolution image, you can see a pale blue streak on one of the plates which adds a nice mysterious look.


----------



## punit

magiccabbage said:


> how much is the 422a going for these days? Any increase in price?


 

 I paid 400 for mine recently, bought it used.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> I paid 400 for mine recently, bought it used.


 
 I've been listening too the 5V4G for about a week now, and I'll tell you for $45.00U.S., this tube is a steal!!! IMO/IME. Thanks for the reminder that I had it on my favorites.
 I will let the tube burn-in for about a month, and then give my opinion betweenn the S/P 274B and the Mullard 5V4G.


----------



## punit

joseph69 said:


> I've been listening too the 5V4G for about a week now, and I'll tell you for $45.00U.S., this tube is a steal!!! IMO/IME. Thanks for the reminder that I had it on my favorites.
> I will let the tube burn-in for about a month, and then give my opinion betweenn the S/P 274B and the Mullard 5V4G.


 

 what drivers are you using with them ?


----------



## joseph69

I'm using Slyvania 6SN7 driver tubes.


----------



## TUBEBO

*joseph69*:
  
 I have a Woo Audio WA6 and have been using a Mullard GZ32, ( same as a 5V4G in the Mullard as I understand it ), and love that rectifier. I too am using 6SN7's in the WA6 and my favorites are a set of Brimar's from the 50's and Ken-Rad's ( clear glass ) VT231's. Have tried 4 other rectifiers and the Mullard is my all around favorite.


----------



## joseph69

tubebo said:


> *joseph69*:
> 
> I have a Woo Audio WA6 and have been a Mullard GZ32, ( same as a 5V4G in the Mullard as I understand it ), and love that rectifier. I too am using 6SN7's in the WA6 and my favorites are a set of Brimar's from the 50's and Ken-Rad's ( clear glass ) VT231's. Have tried 4 other rectifiers and the Mullard is my all around favorite.


 
 Yes, this is the same Mullard I have. I also have the stock rectifier tube that came with the WA6, but I never even tried it because I ordered the amp with the S/P 274B. I only have the 5V4G/GZ32 for a week, but so far I'm liking it very much, but it needs plenty more burn-in. Last night I was listening to The Carpenters, because I haven't listened to any vocals with this set tube yet, only Smooth/Lounge/Chill-Jazz Cd's, and I must say Karen Carpenters vocals with this tube really surprised me…they were extremely sibilant/harsh, at moderate levels, that I could only listen at low levels, where as the Jazz I've been listening to since I've gotten the tube is only getting better and better. So I hope its just a matter of burn-in, if not thats fine, because the S/P sounds amazing with vocals. At least for the Jazz (which I probably listen too 75-85% of the time), for $45.00U.S., I'm pretty impressed with the detail/clarity and the instrument separation is great. I particularly like the percussion instruments with this tube, they sound very real (life like) too me.


----------



## catspaw

If only those beatifull tubes didnt cost so much... 
 I cant afford this awsomeness.


----------



## Snips

catspaw said:


> If only those beatifull tubes didnt cost so much...
> I cant afford this awsomeness.


 
  
 You can get some of the cheaper ones. I see a few RK60s on eBay going for around 30 USD, and some RCA 5U4Gs going for around 40 USD.


----------



## joseph69

Can anyone give an impression on the sound of the 6FD7 (fat bottle)? Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I will send you a pair free if you want to try them. I have dozens, and no amp that uses them anymore.


----------



## TUBEBO

joseph69:
  
 I would take-up Skylab up on his generous offer on send you a pair of fat bottle 6DF7's.  I had a pair of RCA's from the late 60's in my Woo Audio WA6 and they are very good. They have good bass and a nice full lively sound with good dynamics, and a nice warmth without getting too fat sounding. I did make the switch to using 6SN7's with Woos adapters, but made that decision based on the large variety of different sounding types of 6SN7's,  and to help satisfy my tube rolling addiction! And I do like the deeper soundstage and extra warmth of some of the 6SN7's offer.
  
 But make no mistake, the fat bottle 6DF7 is no slouch, and I really liked that tube!


----------



## joseph69

skylab said:


> I will send you a pair free if you want to try them. I have dozens, and no amp that uses them anymore.


 
 I really appreciate the offer, but I've already ordered the 6FD7 (fat bottle) tubes from Woo, I'm just waiting to receive them, but thank you very much!!!


tubebo said:


> joseph69:
> 
> I would take-up Skylab up on his generous offer on send you a pair of fat bottle 6DF7's.  I had a pair of RCA's from the late 60's in my Woo Audio WA6 and they are very good. They have good bass and a nice full lively sound with good dynamics, and a nice warmth without getting too fat sounding. I did make the switch to using 6SN7's with Woos adapters, but made that decision based on the large variety of different sounding types of 6SN7's,  and to help satisfy my tube rolling addiction! And I do like the deeper soundstage and extra warmth of some of the 6SN7's offer.
> 
> But make no mistake, the fat bottle 6DF7 is no slouch, and I really liked that tube!


 
 I also already use Sylvania 1966-6SN7WGTA's in my WA6, and I like them very much, but I wanted to try the 6FD7's too see how they sound.
 I just hope they don't sound like the 6GL7/6EM7, because I really didn't like these tubes at all, IME.


----------



## Snips

skylab said:


> I will send you a pair free if you want to try them. I have dozens, and no amp that uses them anymore.


 
  
 So that's where all the 6FD7s disappeared to lol


----------



## Skylab

Ha! I did buy a few too many back when I had a WA6


----------



## catspaw

snips said:


> You can get some of the cheaper ones. I see a few RK60s on eBay going for around 30 USD, and some RCA 5U4Gs going for around 40 USD.


 
 I know.
 The problem is that the really nice ones (those fat bottle ones, like say the WA models), cost a decent ammount.
 I would actually spend a decent amount of cash (around 1K) If i could test them first and i Loved them, but in Poland its a hard thing to do, most times impossible.
 And Id also want the AMP to be able to power some chorus 714  (around 20W per channel minimum).


----------



## Ultrainferno

just saying (shame on me I know) I have a NOS pair of 596 rectifiers for sale


----------



## Snips

ultrainferno said:


> just saying (shame on me I know) I have a NOS pair of 596 rectifiers for sale


 
  
 Damn, I'm short of cash. Would be nice to grab a pair for future amps.


----------



## Silent One

snips said:


> Damn, I'm short of cash. Would be nice to grab a pair for future amps.


 
 No worries, me and jc9394 will have our pairs around... check with us in the future.


----------



## jc9394

it is funny, i sold more tubes after i closed the thread and shipped the tubes to my parent's house for storage.


----------



## Silent One

Laws of the audio universe at work?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> it is funny, i sold more tubes after i closed the thread and shipped the tubes to my parent's house for storage.




:rolleyes:


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well I'm only putting it up for sale 1 week. Then it's either storage or ebay. I don't need the money


----------



## jc9394

store it like i do now.


----------



## nwavesailor

Ultrainferno : Quite a few 596's on E-Bay right now.
  
 You may want to take JS9394's advice and put them 'on ice' for a time and see what the market does!


----------



## Ultrainferno

are there really? they're not showing up here, maybe it's shipping to US only


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Ah i see, 3 pairs for 249 each pair.

Good condition....


----------



## Ultrainferno

Storage it is. Thankd


----------



## snapontom

Recommended.  Good Price.


----------



## dminches

Maybe the market has finally returned to reality.


----------



## jc9394

I'm surprise no one jump on them yet.  I think I'm holding on my last two pairs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those 596 aren't on ebay anymore, right?


----------



## Snips

ultrainferno said:


> Those 596 aren't on ebay anymore, right?


 
  
 I didn't see any there when I searched just now.


----------



## jc9394

Sill there, all three pairs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-United-Electronics-Co-USAF-596-Vacuum-Tubes-12-56-RARE-5Z3-/321359870718?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad28a7afe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-United-Electronics-Co-USAF-596-Vacuum-Tubes-2-57-RARE-5Z3-/321359787989?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad28937d5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-United-Electronics-Co-JAN-CUE-596-Vacuum-Tubes-4-61-RARE-5Z3-/321359792178?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad2894832


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thank you John. I suppose there is no market for them right now


----------



## jc9394

Yes, no market for them now.  Good thing I did not listed on ebay or i will be eating the listing fee.


----------



## Snips

jc9394 said:


> Sill there, all three pairs.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-United-Electronics-Co-USAF-596-Vacuum-Tubes-12-56-RARE-5Z3-/321359870718?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad28a7afe
> 
> ...


 
  
 O.O Those aren't showing up on my side.


----------



## jc9394

Are you outside of US?  Too bad, the seller only ship CONUS.


----------



## Snips

Ah, that explains it. Didn't notice the shipping. Makes me wonder about all the stuff I missed because they don't ship worldwide.


----------



## jc9394

Shipping international is not fun, I lost couple packages to UK in the past and will never ship to that destination again.  Once USPS package entered UK, it is like a black hole, have no idea where the package is because the tracking it not working at all.  Shipping UPS and FedEx is way too expensive and the buyer usually got hit with brokerage/custom fee.


----------



## punit

Has anyone tried the Western Electric 274B ?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-JAN-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274B-TUBE-TESTED-60-54-MIN-40-Military-Issue-/251480925476?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
  
 Just curious, rather spend the money on upgrading the amp.


----------



## jc9394

IMHO, if the tubes combo cost more than the amp, upgrade the amp.   This is one of the reason I sold the WA22.  When I had the WA22, the most expensive tubes combo I used was Mullard metal based GZ34, TS BGRP 6SN7, and GEC 6AS7G which is around $1,300 but still cost less than the amp.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Yes, no market for them now.  Good thing I did not listed on ebay or i will be eating the listing fee.


 






 But... we ARE the market! Looking back, I had no idea I would fall anode over heels with this rec.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Has anyone tried the Western Electric 274B ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-JAN-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274B-TUBE-TESTED-60-54-MIN-40-Military-Issue-/251480925476?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
> 
> Just curious, rather spend the money on upgrading the amp.





I was going to buy one to try out, but never did get the chance to.

otherwise id let u know :]


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> IMHO, if the tubes combo cost more than the amp, upgrade the amp.   This is one of the reason I sold the WA22.  When I had the WA22, the most expensive tubes combo I used was Mullard metal based GZ34, TS BGRP 6SN7, and GEC 6AS7G which is around $1,300 but still cost less than the amp.


 

 Pretty happy with my WA22 now, used to be a speaker guy but the WA22 + HD 800 haven't let me switch on my speakers for couple of weeks now. Maybe next year I will follow you on the Glenn 300B path depending on how favourable your impressions are when you get one


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Pretty happy with my WA22 now, used to be a speaker guy but the WA22 + HD 800 haven't let me switch on my speakers for couple of weeks now. Maybe next year I will follow you on the Glenn 300B path depending on how favourable your impressions are when you get one




Don't get me wrong, the WA22 is a great amp for HD800. I had it for over three years, only selling it to fund the WA5LE. After I aquired the WA5LE, my work is too busy for me to keep it as paper weight. At time point, I have not turn it on for over a month.


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Don't get me wrong, the WA22 is a great amp for HD800. I had it for over three years, only selling it to fund the WA5LE. After I aquired the WA5LE, my work is too busy for me to keep it as paper weight. At time point, I have not turn it on for over a month.


 

 Didn't know you had WA5LE, it not in your sign. I thought you were going for Glenn's 300B amp. Is the WA5LE more dynamic / less tubey than the WA22 , does it have better low end slam / extension ?


----------



## punit

Have a question , I have this Integrated Tube Speaker Amp.
  
http://www.cayinusa.com/Product_Name.asp?Category=26:56:40&types=1
  
 It has 4 KT 88 power tubes, 2 pairs of 12AX7 & 12AU7 - which I guess are the driver / pre-amp tubes & a tube input socket marked as  5AR4, Can any of the rectifier tubes mentioned in the comparison be used in this socket ?


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> Have a question , I have this Integrated Tube Speaker Amp.
> 
> http://www.cayinusa.com/Product_Name.asp?Category=26:56:40&types=1
> 
> It has 4 KT 88 power tubes, 2 pairs of 12AX7 & 12AU7 - which I guess are the driver / pre-amp tubes & a tube input socket marked as  5AR4, Can any of the rectifier tubes mentioned in the comparison be used in this socket ?


 

 No the 5AR4/GZ34 filament is 2 amps most of these tubes draw 3 amps and you can damage your power transformer.
 You can try the 5R4 it draws 2 amps but has a larger voltage drop. Maybe you will like the sound of the amp
 running at a lower B+ voltage.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Just tried CV 593 on the WA5, wow!!! 
  
 This tube jsut keeps blowing me away, its pretty much just as good as the U52, maybe slightly less nuanced, but everything about it is so good, perfect tonal balance and the bass is really nice.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Just tried CV 593 on the WA5, wow!!!
> 
> This tube jsut keeps blowing me away, its pretty much just as good as the U52, maybe slightly less nuanced, but everything about it is so good, perfect tonal balance and the bass is really nice.


 
 Is that that one of the 5U4g's that cant be used in the stratus?


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> No the 5AR4/GZ34 filament is 2 amps most of these tubes draw 3 amps and you can damage your power transformer.
> You can try the 5R4 it draws 2 amps but has a larger voltage drop. Maybe you will like the sound of the amp
> running at a lower B+ voltage.


 

 I did try the Philips 5R4GY. It cannot mach the superb "Liquid Minty Coolness" tonality (DG trade marked phrase, used with permission 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)   & clarity of the Philips GZ34 Metal Base.


----------



## Neogeo333

I tried a couple of 5r4 with the grey plastic base and I like them the best for my otl amp.  Better than the gz34 or gz37.   Best of all its still cheap.


----------



## punit

neogeo333 said:


> I tried a couple of 5r4 with the grey plastic base and I like them the best for my otl amp.  Better than the gz34 or gz37.   Best of all its still cheap.


 

 Can you please send  me a link for one, if possible ?


----------



## Neogeo333

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5R4WGB-Chatham-Vintage-Vacuum-Tubes-4-Lot-Tested-/251559582271?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a921e9a3f


----------



## gibosi

Can the 5R4WGB be safely used in the Glenn OTL?


----------



## Neogeo333

Its safe, been using it for a month on it and no problem.  But ask Glenn just in case.  My otl is kinda different but not that much.


----------



## punit

From list of rec's i own, Glenn had mentioned not to use Sophia  & EML Rec's in his OTL amp. So yes, it will be better to check with him about 5R4WGB also.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 5R4 is OK to use It can handle 250ma it does have a 69 volt drop at this current. The amp draws 220ma if using 6AS7s
 The high voltage drop will change the sound for better or worse I don't know. It is according to the phones you are using.
 Just don't use those boutique 5U4s Sophia or EML they will blow up I think they are mostly for looks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

EML 5U4G worked ok but i only tried it briefly (like 10-20 minutes), don't know about longer use. i probably wouldn't risk it knowing its a delicate flimsy little tube and the fact that i know the glenn otl runs some tubes really hot. 
  
 the 274B eml didn't work at all, it sparked a bit actually and it looked like it ran really hot, didn't leave it in there for more than a few seconds. im sure sophia would have similar effect.


----------



## Neogeo333

Good to know that 5u4 and 274 are bad for the otl.  I was eyeing some STC 274b not along ago and good thing I didn't get them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

neogeo333 said:


> Good to know that 5u4 and 274 are bad for the otl.  I was eyeing some STC 274b not along ago and good thing I didn't get them.


 
  
 5U4G worked well for me, but it does run them a little hot and i think glenn said it can't handle the current like some of the other rectifiers.
  
 the only exception was EML 5U4G which isn't as robust as the older NOS tubes and will probably not live very long in the Glenn amp.
  
 274B is definitely not compatible though.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> neogeo333 said:
> 
> 
> > Good to know that 5u4 and 274 are bad for the otl.  I was eyeing some STC 274b not along ago and good thing I didn't get them.
> ...


 

 A real one would work but would be maxed out on current   WE274B = 225ma amp uses 220ma
 much better off with a WE422A = 350ma


----------



## punit

Found a cheap & reliable source for 5R4WGB (Potato Masher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)  if anyone's interested :
  
 https://www.etsy.com/listing/183440406/chatham-5r4gy-potato-masher-vacuum-tube?ref=shop_home_active_21


----------



## punit

neogeo333 said:


> I tried a couple of 5r4 with the grey plastic base and I like them the best for my otl amp.  Better than the gz34 or gz37.   Best of all its still cheap.


 

 Thanks for the recommendation. For the price this is a no brainer, best value (dollar to performance ratio) amongst all rectifiers I have heard so far. Which are your fav Power & Driver combinations with the 5R4WGB ?


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Found a cheap & reliable source for 5R4WGB (Potato Masher
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I bought one, figured how could you not for $12.
  
 Out of all of them so far though, U52 is hands down my favorite.  Even ranking higher in my book than the 422A, I love the sound it brings to the table for almost anything I play.  I have yet to find anything I can't play through either one though and get great sound.


----------



## shultzee

Wow, thats a incredible buy, however that thing is butt ugly.


----------



## bonesnv

shultzee said:


> Wow, thats a incredible buy, however that thing is butt ugly.


 
  
 It adds character... ok... not really, it's completely ugly, but still worth the try.


----------



## bonesnv

So mine showed up the other day and I have tried a couple of combinations with it, best I could get was with the Ken Rad's and 7236 through the LCD's.  No matter what I tried though the music just sounded muddy and condensed.  Maybe it will open up more after some burn in but so far it sounds as bad as it looks.
  
 Did anyone else pick one up?  Curious to hear if there are some tube combinations that make it, well, not bad.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bonesnv said:


> So mine showed up the other day and I have tried a couple of combinations with it, best I could get was with the Ken Rad's and 7236 through the LCD's.  No matter what I tried though the music just sounded muddy and condensed.  Maybe it will open up more after some burn in but so far it sounds as bad as it looks.
> 
> Did anyone else pick one up?  Curious to hear if there are some tube combinations that make it, well, not bad.


 
  
 i doubt it lol, its just a different tube to try out for fun.


----------



## bonesnv

dubstep girl said:


> i doubt it lol, its just a different tube to try out for fun.


 
  
 True enough, it is definitely...unique, lol.


----------



## punit

In my experience the 5R4WGB  needs about 100 hrs of burn in to sound its best. I really like the Chatham 5R4WGB + GEC 6080 + Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT combo with HD 800 on the WA22.


----------



## dreambass

I really had no idea, so much to learn. Where to start. Great info though and much appreciated. 
Listened to some Hps today Shure 1540, beyer t90 and HD 700. Food for thought though was dissapointed with HD 700. Need tubes in my life.


----------



## punit

Am selling 2 of my Rectifiers if anyone's interested :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/732866/emission-lab-eml-5u4g-solid-plate-rectifier#post_10845455
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/732867/sophia-princess-274b-rectifier#post_10845473


----------



## Badas

Okay, I'm getting really confused here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Really new and lame to tubes.
  
 Let me apologize in advance if this is the wrong thread to ask this. Sorry.
  
 I have a WA22 coming (real soon). I understand that the stock tubes are rubbish. Putting expensive tubes in is only going to bump up Jacks prices.
  
 However and here is my point I have been told that the Rectifer tube has the least effect on the sound. I have been told by others that the power tube makes the biggest change followed by the drivers. Obviously this fantastic thread (well done Dubstep Girl absolutely amazing) is telling me that the Rectifier is really important. See my confusion? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I plan to listen to the WA22 and note what I don't like and want to change. I was going to start by rolling the power and driver tubes first. Maybe I should start with the rectifier instead? Is the rectifier important? I don't want to hunt down one off super expensive tubes. I was thinking of finding reasonable priced ones I like then by 6 sets of each Rectifier, Power and Driver. Then they should last my lifetime. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: Also can I ask what those wire things do on the outside of some tubes? Also I noticed some have added silcone rings to other tubes. What do they do also? Got so much to learn.


----------



## jc9394

To get the best reasonable priced combo that sounds absolutely amazing with WA22 are GZ32, TS 6F8G BGRP (adapter needed) and GEC 6080. That is for HD800, I saw you have LCD-3, replace GEC with TS 7236/5998.


----------



## bonesnv

Rectifier is important in the grand scheme of things but as you noted it has the least overall impact to the sound produced.  The drivers and power tubes will make a more notable difference.  Where the rectifier really comes into play for me is how each different one pairs with various driver and power tube combinations.
  
 For example, I love my 422a but I like it best with the ECC32's and 421a's, where as my U52 I prefer the TSBGRP 6F8G's and either the 421's or 5998's.  The U52 brings a more euphonic sound signature and when paired with the 6F8G's and 5998's, they all work in harmony to make incredible music that has a very large sound stage and almost 3 dimensional feeling to the music.
  
 With that said, you can do the same with a lower end rectifier, it just may not be as resolving.  The GZ32/CV593 is very affordable and works beautifully, I believe DG even runs them in the WA5.  That rectifier will also pair with almost any combination of driver/power tubes that you use and still sound great.
  
 For me, changing out the power from say 5998's, to 7236's and then to 6080's, there are very notable changes with the LCD3's due to their power requirements.  The drivers offer change as well but it is more layering of the music and how you can use different combinations to bring out more of the mids or warmth.
  
 GZ32(CV593) = $60-75ish
 TS 7236 = $100-160 pair
 TSBG 6F8G = random but $175-285ish range for pair + adapters = $80-100ish
  
 If you want a decently affordable and just one set of tubes to enjoy your music, the above will power the LCD3's without issue and sound beautiful.  If you want more brightness, instead of the 6F8G's you can try Ken-Rad VT231's.


----------



## bonesnv

jc9394 said:


> To get the best reasonable priced combo that sounds absolutely amazing with WA22 are GZ32, TS 6F8G BGRP (adapter needed) and GEC 6080. That is for HD800, I saw you have LCD-3, replace GEC with TS 7236/5998.


 
  
 Way to beat me to it with way less words.


----------



## Badas

Wow,
  
 Two guys came up with the same recommendation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Guess that is what I will do then.
  
 I will get a set in. If I like then I will buy 5 more sets.
  
 Any links on where to buy and the adapters? Somewhere with a good reputation (I don't mind paying a bit more). Or do you guys just use ebay? Not that simple for me being on the other side of the world (New Zealand).


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I'm in the same boat Badas. My WA22 is on order and I'm looking forward to tube rolling. I have a Lyr and went through the common mid-price tubes -- Bugle Boys, OGs, and Lorenz SELs -- but the WA22 is a different beast.
  
 @bonesnv, @jc9394 -- would you recommend similar tubes for LCD-X and RS1i?


----------



## bonesnv

Unfortunately haven't tried either of those cans so wouldn't be able to say.  For the LCD-X, I would say you should get a similar sound but don't quote me.
  
 As for where to buy tubes, being in NZ not sure where aside from EBay.  Don't buy from anyone that won't speak to you first about the tubes in question, ask about the base and rattles, etc. or from someone who won't post actual test results of the tubes from a calibrated tester.  Just "tubes test strong" is something I generally stay away from, I like numbers and data I can then go on Google and reference to something valid.
  
 EDIT:  For the GZ32, you can try Upscale Audio, not sure if they ship international or not but worth a look.  It should be around $70 and he has them in stock.
  
 EDIT:  Also, all credit where it's due, I came up with the same recommendation because jc, punit, dg, glenn and so many others are the ones that I learned from when I got my 6SE and then my WA22.  There advice was and continues to be quite valuable.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> Unfortunately haven't tried either of those cans so wouldn't be able to say.  For the LCD-X, I would say you should get a similar sound but don't quote me.
> 
> As for where to buy tubes, being in NZ not sure where aside from EBay.  Don't buy from anyone that won't speak to you first about the tubes in question, ask about the base and rattles, etc. or from someone who won't post actual test results of the tubes from a calibrated tester.  Just "tubes test strong" is something I generally stay away from, I like numbers and data I can then go on Google and reference to something valid.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, That is awesome. Done. I will use them. Even if they don't ship internationally I can get it sent to a mate in the states and then to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: Yip they ship to NZ. I ordered two to start with. All goes well and I will get more tubes of them. Thanks so much.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Stumbled onto this thread just......headfi is a huge place
What a read, great work put in by DG! 

Haven't snagged any of those megabuck tubes...
just a delicious Brimar 5%R$@' whatever the code is" for my csp2+


----------



## jc9394

indiegradofan said:


> I'm in the same boat Badas. My WA22 is on order and I'm looking forward to tube rolling. I have a Lyr and went through the common mid-price tubes -- Bugle Boys, OGs, and Lorenz SELs -- but the WA22 is a different beast.
> 
> @bonesnv, @jc9394 -- would you recommend similar tubes for LCD-X and RS1i?


 
  
  
 Yes in all LCD series, never tried Grado.


----------



## TFKRS241

Hello,
 Thanks so much DG for a great review.  Has anybody mentioned the 83 Mercury rectifier?  I use these in place of the 5V tubes and love the way they sound...


----------



## Neogeo333

Sneaked out of work to listen to these that arrived today.  15mins warm up and there pretty good.  I like how instrument sounds more 3d and alive.  But vocals have gone back a few rows back.  Gonna report back in a few days.


----------



## magiccabbage

neogeo333 said:


> Sneaked out of work to listen to these that arrived today.  15mins warm up and there pretty good.  I like how instrument sounds more 3d and alive.  But vocals have gone back a few rows back.  Gonna report back in a few days.


 
 what are they Brimar?


----------



## Neogeo333

These are the RCA hanging filaments 5r4gy.  They look like Brimars but have much longer plates.  Its starting to get better once it has 10 hours.  Definitely a keeper.


----------



## jhljhl

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-NOS-CEI-596-Tube-MADE-IN-USA-/291217425156?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
  
  
 Anyone know about this 596 tube?


----------



## Lorspeaker

nobody is responding to u....


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



everyone is BZ hitting the BUY button..?


----------



## jhljhl

lorspeaker said:


> nobody is responding to u....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 don't think so


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-NOS-CEI-596-Tube-MADE-IN-USA-/291217425156?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
> 
> 
> Anyone know about this 596 tube?


 

 It is a re brand of the United Electronics 596 nobody else made this tube.
 So they will be fine to buy.


----------



## jc9394

lorspeaker said:


> nobody is responding to u....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  
  
 Think everyone is busy hitting the buy button on apple.com.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> lorspeaker said:
> 
> 
> > nobody is responding to u....
> ...


 

 $90  When I introduced this tube to head fi I was selling them for $15 then they went up to $40  $90.00 is crazy


----------



## Lorspeaker

u can always start a religious following on another obscure tube   
 ( this time make sure u stash up on the stocks )


----------



## 2359glenn

lorspeaker said:


> u can always start a religious following on another obscure tube
> ( this time make sure u stash up on the stocks )


 

 Yea I know
 I was just trying to make money on the adapters what was I thinking.
 Just can't find one that looks that cool  maybe the RK60/1641


----------



## Lorspeaker

this tube should look martian enuf


----------



## 2359glenn

Yea but that is not a rectifier and cannot be used in most amps.
  
 Here is a RK-60  similar to a 596


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> Yea but that is not a rectifier and cannot be used in most amps.
> 
> Here is a RK-60  similar to a 596


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301286475899?_trksid=p2059216.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 someone's at it.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> $90  When I introduced this tube to head fi I was selling them for $15 then they went up to $40  $90.00 is crazy


 

 They're selling in the classified for $150 up.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yea but that is not a rectifier and cannot be used in most amps.
> ...


 

 Dam another tube I should stocked up on


----------



## Lorspeaker

i did a private shootout amongst my cheap6as7s ....wrong thread


----------



## TonyNewman

Quick post on the NOS Mullard GZ32. This is an excellent tube for the money. IMHO it beats the pants off both the Sophia Princess ($160) and EML 274B ($270) in my WA6 and WA5
  
 This tube is going up in price - the word might be getting out - I bought 2 a few weeks ago for $80, now they are $90 per unit. Still a bargain. Many other sellers are asking $100+.
  
 One thing I have wondered at is the Mullard GZ32 packs a lot of sonic goodness into a small and robust looking tube. The very best rectifiers ever made (by WE) never had any mesh in them (perforated plate or woven) - what does the mesh add apart from increased production cost and decreased reliability?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Quick post on the NOS Mullard GZ32. This is an excellent tube for the money. IMHO it beats the pants off both the Sophia Princess ($160) and EML 274B ($270) in my WA6 and WA5
> 
> This tube is going up in price - the word might be getting out - I bought 2 a few weeks ago for $80, now they are $90 per unit. Still a bargain. Many other sellers are asking $100+.
> 
> One thing I have wondered at is the Mullard GZ32 packs a lot of sonic goodness into a small and robust looking tube. The very best rectifiers ever made (by WE) never had any mesh in them (perforated plate or woven) - what does the mesh add apart from increased production cost and decreased reliability?


 

 Excellent to know. I have two being delivered today via FedEx. I got them at $75 a tube. I will throw one in tonight. Now trying to find a good pair of 6SN7 tubes. On e-bay as we speak.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Excellent to know. I have two being delivered today via FedEx. I got them at $75 a tube. I will throw one in tonight. Now trying to find a good pair of 6SN7 tubes. On e-bay as we speak.


 
 I hope you will be pleased with the GZ32s - I was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This tube also doesn't seem to need a lot of burn in to sound good.
  
 I wonder if we will be seeing these going for $200 each in a year?


----------



## Lorspeaker

i got a Mullard GZ32 just a week ago... it can go from lovely mellow sounding on the CSP2+
 to a more agile stance, depending on the tube combinations i put in. 

 mullardGZ32...PhilipsGZ32..LorenzGZ32
 u can say the size of the bottle gives u a clue as to how full bodied they are,
 relative to one another..LOL


----------



## TonyNewman

lorspeaker said:


> i got a Mullard GZ32 just a week ago... it can go from lovely mellow sounding on the CSP2+
> to a more agile stance, depending on the tube combinations i put in.
> 
> mullardGZ32...PhilipsGZ32..LorenzGZ32
> ...


 
 Nice set!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do you have a favorite amongst those 3?


----------



## Lorspeaker

i managed to make each tube "SING" with diff combo of tubes on the CSP2+
 For the Mullard, i threw in 3 e188cc tubes n it sang..
 for the Philips it was 2 GoldArrows(seimen?)  n one e188cc..
 and the Lorenz..two russian stocktubes, n a e188cc upfront.
  
 Do i have a favourite..? Mullards always bring a good feeling inside of me...just uttering that name.
  
 paid the cheapest on the Lorenz..but it just sold out two days ago i believe.
 The philips n Mullards are challenging each other on price in ebay everyday..sighhh.
  
 I tot the Philips was imaging more 3D a few days ago when i tried it out...
 need to go back n comfirm it...but Philips always give that clean sound..tomyears.
  
 little note:
 The center focus on the Lorenz is kinda stronger..
 like i could sense an emphasis right smack in the center.
 the other two tubes just pan left to right evenly.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I hope you will be pleased with the GZ32s - I was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If they are to my liking I will buy another 3. I'm trying to get 5 sets of everything required.
  
 My thinking is 5000 hours per tube. That's 5 years use. 5 sets times 5 years equals 25 years. By then it will be my Son's problem finding tubes as I will probably be gone.


----------



## TonyNewman

lorspeaker said:


> ...The philips n Mullards are challenging each other on price in ebay everyday..sighhh....


 
  
 That's the thing with NOS - rising prices + decreasing availability.
  
 I am trying some new production tubes. After relative disppointment with the Sophia Princess and EML 274B, I am burning in a pair of Psvane WE274B 1:1 replicas. I will post some impressions on this thread once I have clocked 300 hours on them.


----------



## Lorspeaker

bada,,,and how old are u btw...?


----------



## Lorspeaker

tonynewman said:


> That's the thing with NOS - rising prices + decreasing availability.
> 
> I am trying some new production tubes. After relative disppointment with the Sophia Princess and EML 274B, I am burning in a pair of Psvane WE274B 1:1 replicas. I will post some impressions on this thread once I have clocked 300 hours on them.


 
  
 i have a PSvane CV181 Tii...i tot it is superior to ALL my regular nos 6SN7s...
 sounded bigger clearer each time i swap it into the amp..a DV336se .
 i hope u get a good kick out of your new PSVANE...enjoy !!


----------



## TonyNewman

lorspeaker said:


> i have a PSvane CV181 Tii...i tot it is superior to ALL my regular nos 6SN7s...
> sounded bigger clearer each time i swap it into the amp..a DV336se .
> i hope u get a good kick out of your new PSVANE...enjoy !!


 
  
 I found the Psvane CV181 T2s excellent also - I was so impressed I made the leap into the Psvane WE replicas for 274Bs and 300Bs.
  
 Once I have 300 hours on these tubes I will post some impressions in the appropriate threads.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

cv593


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> cv593


 
  
 If you mean the Mullard GZ32 - I can only agree. A lot of sonic goodness packed into a small glass tube. Even at $90 to $100 ea they are a bargin.
  
 Great thread, by the way. Thank you for taking the time to post the rectifier comparisons. It was your work that put me onto the GZ32 in the first place


----------



## Badas

I threw in the Mullard GZ32. What a beautiful tube. 

Thanks Dubstep Girl for the recommendation. 

Deeper, fuller and smoother. A lot smaller than the stock Woo WA22 tube. I was a little surprised at that. Beautiful looking tube tho.


----------



## Sonicmasala

+1.
CV 593 plus 6FD7 is making beautiful music on my WA6-SE and Alpha Dog.


----------



## bonesnv

sonicmasala said:


> +1.
> CV 593 plus 6FD7 is making beautiful music on my WA6-SE and Alpha Dog.


 
  
 What I always ran in my 6SE, loved that combo.  I have also used the 593 in the WA22 and it sings there as well, just a very well made/sounding rectifier.  With their cost, I bought a couple of them to keep for when my more expensive NOS rectifier tubes finally die,


----------



## Sonicmasala

Thanks to Dubstep Girl,a very helpful lady she is i should say. Her recommendations on the tubes and the combination for theWA6-SE is sport on. Just got myself the Might 596, but waiting for the adapter to arrive. Also waiting to try the 6SN7 series tubes once my special adapter for wa6-se by Glenn is ready. I'm happy with my set up and do not foresee a change in the amp in the near future as there is ample opportunity to roll tubes for different kinds of headphones.


----------



## Stereolab42

2359glenn said:


> It is a re brand of the United Electronics 596 nobody else made this tube.
> So they will be fine to buy.


 
  
 I will admit to buying some of the tubes from this listing, after doing a bit of my own research on Calvert Electronics Inc (CEI):
  
http://pax-comm.com/pa01008.htm
  
 According to this, factories that built tubes for the military would sell as surplus tubes that went past "an accepted reliability date". Of course as we know now tubes basically last forever if stored well, so the concept of an expiration date is laughable. I was looking for USAF 596s and it appears the last ones offered for sale were sold many months ago and at more than $200 a tube, so this seemed like a bargain. Assuming they are in good condition, which they appear to me. Guess I'll find out soon.


----------



## punit

Any thoughts on the Ken Rad 5U4G ? Has anyone tried them ?
  
 http://www.tubebrokers.com/ken-rad-5u4g-vt-244-rectifier-tube-1942-1945-military/


----------



## punit

IMHO This is one of the must have rectifiers for *Glenn OTL owners*. I would classify it amongst the top 3-4 recs for Glenn's amp.
  

  
 CBS Hytron 5AW4. Holographic imaging & 3d sound stage, does everything well & then I saw the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 double wow.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> IMHO This is one of the must have rectifiers for *Glenn OTL owners*. I would classify it amongst the top 3-4 recs for Glenn's amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried it in the WA22??


----------



## punit

No, Haven't . As this is not on the list of rectifiers recommended by Woo for their amps. Can I ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes It has the same pin out and specs as a 5U4
 5 volt  3 amp heater
  
 It will work fine maybe sound better then the rest.


----------



## bonesnv

Punit let us know how it sounds in the WA22 if you try it, I may snag one or two after seeing the price.  Curious if those same qualities you hear in the GlennOTL come through on the Woo.


----------



## Badas

^

Yes please. Let us know. I will grab a few as well.

Anyone try thie coke bottle version CBS 5U4G? It's a good price also.


----------



## punit

2359glenn said:


> Yes It has the same pin out and specs as a 5U4
> 5 volt  3 amp heater
> 
> It will work fine maybe sound better then the rest.


 

 YES 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Does sound quite good on WA22. Thanks for the recommendation Glenn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tried them with GEC 6AS7G + RCA red base 5692


----------



## bonesnv

Thanks for the info Punit, will grab one for my WA22.  What rectifier do you feel it compares most to or shares similarities with?


----------



## 2359glenn

The 5AW4 comes with two different type plates  one surrounds the filament in little tubes
 this is the one you want.  The one that it is like a 5U4 plates is nothing special.
 Here is a pix of the type plates you want.   The tube in the pix is the one I gave to Punit.
 It is the tube on the left.


----------



## bonesnv

Cool, thanks for the photo and details Glenn, very helpful.
  
 From looking around, it seems there are two distinct bases as well, one with red lettering and one with engraved gray/white lettering.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> YES  . Does sound quite good on WA22. Thanks for the recommendation Glenn
> 
> Tried them with GEC 6AS7G + RCA red base 5692




Nice setup. Your WA22 looks more pimp than mine. 

I will try and hunt down a few of the CBS tube as well.

Hey all those white things on the bottom of your tubes. What are they? Are the converters or just spaces?

Do I need a converter to use the discussed tube or can I plug straight in?


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> Nice setup. Your WA22 looks more pimp than mine.
> 
> I will try and hunt down a few of the CBS tube as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Socket savers for octal sockets.
  
 If you aren't rolling tubes daily/semi-daily, save the money and use the stock sockets on the Woo amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> Socket savers for octal sockets.
> 
> If you aren't rolling tubes daily/semi-daily, save the money and use the stock sockets on the Woo amp.


 
  
 Socket savers have another use besides saving sockets. They can help with space constraints with fat bottled tubes.
  
 On both my WA5 and WA6 this can be a problem when using Psvane CV-181s (really 6SN7s) combined with fat rectifier/power tubes like the Sophia range of 274B/300Bs. Socket savers (octal and 300B 4 pin) can be used to make the tubes fit.
  
 Example below has SERP 300Bs paired with Psvane CV181s - this combination just won't fit without the 300B socket savers.
  

  
 Similar deal on the WA6 with a fat rectifier combined with the Psvane CV181s. An octal socket saver under the rectifier can provide that little bit of space needed.


----------



## Lorspeaker

does the socket saver improve the sound too?


----------



## punit

Only if its made out of solid silver. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But seriously that's all it does - save u'r sockets if you have ocd for tube rolling.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


>


 
 Those are some yummy tubes!
  
 Can I trouble you to post a shot of them glowing in the dark? Am particularly curious to know how the Psvane CV-181s would look..thanks!


----------



## Lorspeaker

the glow on the psvane is v v v faint thru the silvered glass.


----------



## Rossliew

lorspeaker said:


> the glow on the psvane is v v v faint thru the silvered glass.


 
 Thought so too..well, i suppose these tubes are meant to look good during day time!


----------



## gibosi

2359glenn said:


> The 5AW4 comes with two different type plates  one surrounds the filament in little tubes
> this is the one you want.  The one that it is like a 5U4 plates is nothing special.
> Here is a pix of the type plates you want.


 
  
 Can I assume that if the plates have these upside down v-shaped little tubes, they were all manufactured by the same company? And perhaps sound the same? In addition to the CBS, I have seen GE, Raytheon, Sylvania and Philco with this plate style.....


----------



## roskodan

yo, i've a SEL Lorenz GZ32 (5V4G, CV593) *LINK*
  
 got it for the wa6-se
  
 but i'm not sure if it's compatible since it has only 4 pins (2,4,6,8) and i see there are usually 5 pins on other rectifiers, so i wonder if that's normal, anybody using this specific rectifier with the wa6-se?


----------



## Lorspeaker

i used it on the csp2+ ...sounded leaner than the dario gz32, and mullard gz32.
 can be v spacious when paired with some synergistic tubes...now go n experiment on your amp!
  
 =======
  
 what about this category of tubes...those with the thick big base..are they any good?
 quite cheap..havent tried it.
  
Chatham Tung Sol JAN CAHG 5R4WGA Tube - Hickok Tested
  
  
 =======
  
 and this RCA 1945 is going off the charts on price...anyone tried this?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-5R4GY-274B-Double-Getter-Mil-Spec-Rectifier-Tube-Tested-NOS-NIB-2-/251652089268?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a97a225b4


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> Can I trouble you to post a shot of them glowing in the dark? Am particularly curious to know how the Psvane CV-181s would look..thanks!


 
  
 I'll try tonight, but my photography skills are rather awful. The Psvane CV-181s have a faint glow from the top - between the silver dome and the grey body - very unspectacular.
  
 The SERPs look a bit more impressive. I'll try to capture that.


----------



## punit

> what about this category of tubes...those with the thick big base..are they any good? quite cheap..havent tried it.
> 
> Chatham Tung Sol JAN CAHG 5R4WGA Tube - Hickok Tested


 
 I have one. IMO its quite decent sounding, Good Value .


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> I'll try tonight, but my photography skills are rather awful. The Psvane CV-181s have a faint glow from the top - between the silver dome and the grey body - very unspectacular.
> 
> The SERPs look a bit more impressive. I'll try to capture that.




Thanks..i would believe the SERP tubes would be more magnificient looking.


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> Thanks..i would believe the SERP tubes would be more magnificient looking.


 
  
 Sorry - my photography skills aren't up to capturing a good image of the SERPs and CV181s at night. I tried, but all I could manage is some reddish blurs in a black background - not worth posting the image.
  
 These tubes don't glow much in any case. The hot elements are hidden behind the grey coating in the CV181s and behind the folded metal structure in the SERPs. I get a lot more glowing happening from my Mullard GZ32 and EML 274B mesh rectifiers. Other folks have posted much better pictures than I can manage - including some timed exposures with a very cool blue glowing effect.


----------



## Badas

Is this one of the CBS Hytron 5AW4 rectifiers we have been talking about?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-CBS-Hytron-USA-5U4GB-Black-Plate-2-Top-Get-TALL-Vacuum-Tube-100-/121434732918?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c4612f976


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> Is this one of the CBS Hytron 5AW4 rectifiers we have been talking about?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-CBS-Hytron-USA-5U4GB-Black-Plate-2-Top-Get-TALL-Vacuum-Tube-100-/121434732918?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c4612f976


 
  
 Can't see the plates clearly enough....  It is my understanding that you want to look for plates that have these two little channels in a V-shaped pattern.


----------



## Badas

gibosi said:


> Can't see the plates clearly enough....  It is my understanding that you want to look for plates that have these two little channels in a V-shaped pattern.


 
  
 Oh, That is an excellent photo. Thanks for that. Now I can search with confidence. I appreciate that.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> Sorry - my photography skills aren't up to capturing a good image of the SERPs and CV181s at night. I tried, but all I could manage is some reddish blurs in a black background - not worth posting the image.
> 
> These tubes don't glow much in any case. The hot elements are hidden behind the grey coating in the CV181s and behind the folded metal structure in the SERPs. I get a lot more glowing happening from my Mullard GZ32 and EML 274B mesh rectifiers. Other folks have posted much better pictures than I can manage - including some timed exposures with a very cool blue glowing effect.


 
 No worries about that  Even without the glow, them tubes look nice!


----------



## Lorspeaker

gibosi said:


> Can't see the plates clearly enough....  It is my understanding that you want to look for plates that have these two little channels in a V-shaped pattern.


 
  
 this is a "SHELDON ELECTRIC" tube....is it as "good" as the CBS Hytron..given similar plates construction..or made by same co ..rebranded?


----------



## 2359glenn

lorspeaker said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Can't see the plates clearly enough....  It is my understanding that you want to look for plates that have these two little channels in a V-shaped pattern.
> ...


 

 If it has the same plate like the one shown I think they were all made by the same company.
 I have a Philco Tung-Sol GE CBS all look the same inside and test the same.


----------



## Lorspeaker

have i posted this b4? 
  
 The 3 5Y3s i have...Sylvania...Wizard...TungSol.
 Sylvania has the most spacious clean sound, TungSol has a more fullbodied sound..
 WIzard..hmmm...upclosed...less liberated. All around 15-20bucks i believe.
  
 The Sylvania is giving my hd650 that much more space...v interesting. 
 ( using a CSP2+ amp)


----------



## 2359glenn

lorspeaker said:


> have i posted this b4?
> 
> The 3 5Y3s i have...Sylvania...Wizard...TungSol.
> Sylvania has the most spacious clean sound, TungSol has a more fullbodied sound..
> ...


 

 Try the 5AW4 while the price is still cheep I just bought a bunch Yesturday
 The last tube I liked and posted here was the 596 and it was selling for $15  now $250
 if you can find one.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i snagged one 5AW4 yesterday too... from an unwary seller. 
 ( not one BUNCH..  )
  
 Given up on exotic 250buckstubes ...i munch around 30bucks LIMIT...says my VISAcard.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Try the 5AW4 while the price is still cheep I just bought a bunch Yesturday
> The last tube I liked and posted here was the 596 and it was selling for $15  now $250
> if you can find one.


 

 I can't find any. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (need a crying face on this site). Not easy from New Zealand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been looking.


----------



## Badas

Is this them?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-Sylvania-USA-5AW4-5U4-Sub-Black-P-TALL-Vacuum-Tubes-/121449233981?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c46f03e3d


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> Is this them?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-Sylvania-USA-5AW4-5U4-Sub-Black-P-TALL-Vacuum-Tubes-/121449233981?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c46f03e3d


 

 I think so but I really can't see the side of the plate


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> I think so but I really can't see the side of the plate


 

 Yeah. It is hard to tell with the pictures they post.


----------



## 2359glenn

Try this one
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-GE-RCA-5AW4-NOS-Rectifier-Vacuum-Tube-Tall-Glass-Same-Date-Codes-/221560203367?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3396046867


----------



## 2359glenn

Or this one cheeper
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-USA-5AW4-Black-Plate-Top-Getter-Vacuum-Tube-5AW4-79-76-/151423475130?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item23418addba


----------



## Lorspeaker

all looks slanted to me... i am using a plumb line


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Try this one
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-GE-RCA-5AW4-NOS-Rectifier-Vacuum-Tube-Tall-Glass-Same-Date-Codes-/221560203367?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3396046867


 
  
 I got that one. Thanks heaps Glenn.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i will NOT join in this buying frenzi... i will not....i will.....i.....


----------



## Badas

lorspeaker said:


> i will NOT join in this buying frenzi... i will not....i will.....i.....


 

*Will. *


----------



## shultzee

2359glenn said:


> Try the 5AW4 while the price is still cheep I just bought a bunch Yesturday
> The last tube I liked and posted here was the 596 and it was selling for $15  now $250
> if you can find one.


 

 I have a 596 available now if anyone is interested


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lorspeaker said:


> i will NOT join in this buying frenzi... i will not....i will.....i.....




+1


----------



## bonesnv

Well, both my 5AW4's arrived today so will pop them in the amp and see how she goes tonight.  Going to try them with the 6F8G/421 combo and the ECC32(CV181)/421 combo, see what sounds better with the LCD3's.   Can't beat the price while they are what they are now.  Give it a month, probably be $800 like the GZ34 metal base.


----------



## Stereolab42

I should have known better than to order the eBay 596 adapters. One works, one doesn't, with woeful build quality on both. I just PM'd Glenn, hopefully he's still making them.


----------



## bonesnv

stereolab42 said:


> I should have known better than to order the eBay 596 adapters. One works, one doesn't, with woeful build quality on both. I just PM'd Glenn, hopefully he's still making them.


 
  
 Glenn's are top notch for sure, I only use my Woo adapters for backups now in case something happens.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> Well, both my 5AW4's arrived today so will pop them in the amp and see how she goes tonight.  Going to try them with the 6F8G/421 combo and the ECC32(CV181)/421 combo, see what sounds better with the LCD3's.   Can't beat the price while they are what they are now.  Give it a month, probably be $800 like the GZ34 metal base.


 

 I will be interested in your thoughts. Glad I was able to snag a few yesterday.
  
 Starting to get a few spare tubes. Do you guy throw them in the amps for a while to test they are okay and then re-box them? I'm thinking of doing that so that in 10 years time I know they did work when I received them.


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> Starting to get a few spare tubes. Do you guy throw them in the amps for a while to test they are okay and then re-box them? I'm thinking of doing that so that in 10 years time I know they did work when I received them.


 
  
 Based on the advice of a good friend, I run tubes for about an hour before storage.
  
 That said, I did that with a 6080, and the next time I pulled it out, the getter flash had turned white! So now I visually inspect them the next day, as an extra step.


----------



## bonesnv

In case anyone is interested:  http://doc.telephonecollectors.info/dm/024-722-101_I3.pdf
  
 Was researching WE tubes and wanted to learn about the date coding.  Not totally updated, as it is an issue from 1956 but good starting point for anyone researching the 422A's.  The 3 digit date codes seem to typically be the grey plate with the 4 digit date codes being the black plates.


----------



## Stereolab42

stereolab42 said:


> I should have known better than to order the eBay 596 adapters. One works, one doesn't, with woeful build quality on both. I just PM'd Glenn, hopefully he's still making them.


 
  
 My thanks to Glenn, he's still making em if you need em.
  
 So the CEI 596 tubes I bought from eBay turned out to be in perfect shape. I'm rotating them through the WA6-SE but so far no duds. They are clearly the real deal, simply relabeled. Unfortunately the seller has no more, he claims he found them in Mexico City (of all places) in 1995. I wonder if any more stock of this tube will show up ever again. (Anyone gone tube hunting in Mexico?)


----------



## bonesnv

So, tested out the 5AW4's for around 4 hours last night, nothing substantial by any means but got an initial impression.  I let them run for about an hour or so (got sidetracked watching Face Off on Scify) before I started listening to the amp, wanted to give them a little run time.
  
 What a weird and unique rectifier first of all.  It is a clean looking tube, not a lot of flash or glow, just kind of drops in and works.  For the cost, I would say it tonally sounds better in my opinion than the CV593.  If the U52 and 596 tube had a tube baby, I think this would be it.  Not as wide or an expansive of a sound stage as the WE422A or U52, but comes off very 3 dimensional, with a good amount of warmth and an up close and personal feeling to the music.  The one thing I did note is that the mids seem a bit more recessed, which hindered a couple of songs I tried from sounding their best but overall first impressions are quite good.  Tested with both the ECC32(CV181) and 6F8G's, with the ECC32's edging out as the preferred combination with the rectifier, at least while using the LCD3's.
  
 Good call to test it out in the WA22, since it wasn't on the Woo list would have had no clue about it.  Note, that my above impressions are with my LCD3's only, so tube combinations will obviously vary based on headphones used.


----------



## Oskari

bonesnv said:


> In case anyone is interested:  http://doc.telephonecollectors.info/dm/024-722-101_I3.pdf


 
  
 Nice! Thanks!


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> So, tested out the 5AW4's for around 4 hours last night, nothing substantial by any means but got an initial impression.  I let them run for about an hour or so (got sidetracked watching Face Off on Scify) before I started listening to the amp, wanted to give them a little run time.
> 
> What a weird and unique rectifier first of all.  It is a clean looking tube, not a lot of flash or glow, just kind of drops in and works.  For the cost, I would say it tonally sounds better in my opinion than the CV593.  If the U52 and 596 tube had a tube baby, I think this would be it.  Not as wide or an expansive of a sound stage as the WE422A or U52, but comes off very 3 dimensional, with a good amount of warmth and an up close and personal feeling to the music.  The one thing I did note is that the mids seem a bit more recessed, which hindered a couple of songs I tried from sounding their best but overall first impressions are quite good.  Tested with both the ECC32(CV181) and 6F8G's, with the ECC32's edging out as the preferred combination with the rectifier, at least while using the LCD3's.
> 
> Good call to test it out in the WA22, since it wasn't on the Woo list would have had no clue about it.  Note, that my above impressions are with my LCD3's only, so tube combinations will obviously vary based on headphones used.


 
  
 Excellent. I can't wait to try. I find the Rectifier makes the biggest change to the WA22. Bold statement that it sounds better than the CV593 (I presume you are talking Mullard GZ32/CV593/5V4).
  
 Agreed. Strange looking Rectifier.
  
 Any Pics in the WA22?


----------



## bonesnv

Pic is on my post, if it shows up as a little missing photo box, just click it.  Not sure why the forum is doing that.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

badas said:


> Excellent. I can't wait to try. I find the Rectifier makes the biggest change to the WA22. *Bold statement that it sounds better than the CV593 (I presume you are talking Mullard GZ32/CV593/5V4).*
> 
> Agreed. Strange looking Rectifier.
> 
> Any Pics in the WA22?


 
  
  
 +1
  
 especially tonally, since i think the CV 593 has as beautiful of a tone as the U52 and WE 422A, or at least 90% as good.


----------



## Badas

Thanks for the pic. Looking awesome. Very Pimp looking amp.
  
 So the 5AW4 is very tall. Nice to get some scale. Is there no glow at all?


----------



## punit

> Originally Posted by *bonesnv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The one thing I did note is that the mids seem a bit more recessed, which hindered a couple of songs I tried from sounding their best but overall first impressions are quite good.


 
 Just an example of how we hear things so differently. I am not too fond of the LCD3's as I find them too "Mid-rangey", especially coupled with the WA22 which also has good mid-range, It would have been an over abundance of mid-range for me. Hence went with the XC's.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> Just an example of how we hear things so differently. I am not too fond of the LCD3's as I find them too "Mid-rangey", especially coupled with the WA22 which also has good mid-range, It would have been an over abundance of mid-range for me. Hence went with the XC's.




And I'm different again. I use LCD3 with WA22 and finding tubes to bloat the mid-range even further.

Different courses for different horses.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> Thanks for the pic. Looking awesome. Very Pimp looking amp.
> 
> So the 5AW4 is very tall. Nice to get some scale. Is there no glow at all?


 
  
 Not really, just a little at the top of the tube.


----------



## bonesnv

So quick update on the 5AW4, already had one of the two I bought burn out.  Could have just been a bad tube, things happen, but I am curious if anyone else who may have tried in the WA22 is having longevity issues.
  
 At least it didn't explode and what not like someone posted about earlier with their tubes, just turned itself off and quit working.


----------



## 2359glenn

bonesnv said:


> So quick update on the 5AW4, already had one of the two I bought burn out.  Could have just been a bad tube, things happen, but I am curious if anyone else who may have tried in the WA22 is having longevity issues.
> 
> At least it didn't explode and what not like someone posted about earlier with their tubes, just turned itself off and quit working.


 

 It probably was just a bad tube they run fine in my amps and they run the rectifier tube much harder then in a WA-22.
 Especially when using 6336 output tubes the current through the rectifier is high.


----------



## bonesnv

2359glenn said:


> It probably was just a bad tube they run fine in my amps and they run the rectifier tube much harder then in a WA-22.
> Especially when using 6336 output tubes the current through the rectifier is high.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the info Glenn, that is what I had figured too.  Was just odd last night, kept hitting play on my JRemote app and nothing was happening then looked over and saw the rectifier wasn't lit.  Guess it was a good idea to grab two after all.
  
 On a side note, there was a How It's Made on the other night (TV show for those unfamiliar) that did an inside look at KR Audio and showed their whole tube building process.  I was pretty intrigued with the process, hand blowing the glass tubes, how it all gets wired up and prepped for use (silvering), getting the air tight vacuum seal, all before it rolls out the door.  No clue on the quality of KR tubes, just speaking on it from a learning experience perspective.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Try shifting the tube a little...sometimes the pins are not perfectly straight or making full contact?
Just happened to one of my new 5y3 Yesterday


----------



## TonyNewman

A quick follow up to my earlier posts where I was rather hard on the EML 274B mesh rectifier as poor value for money compared to a NOS such as the Mullard GZ32. Totally stand by those comments, as the price of $270 for a rectifier that is clearly outclassed by a NOS tube going for $70 to $90, and half the size, is just poor.
  
 I let the poor performance of the rectifier put me off the other products in the EML line - particularly their 300Bs. This was a mistake. I took a risk and recently purchased a pair of EAT 300Bs that became available locally at a good price - as best I can tell these are a re-badged base model EML 300B with some minor tweaks. Wow - a great tube. Makes me think again about the EML 300B mesh.
  
 Anyway, I hope folks don't take my comments about the EML rectifier as a general criticism of EML products. These guys can make great amplification tubes - but I would recommend looking elsewhere for rectification duties.
  
 As always, YMMV.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

My WA5 doesn't sound any bad with the EML 300B. I think its alright. I still believe the EML rectifiers, though decent, can be outperformed by far cheaper NOS tubes though.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> My WA5 doesn't sound any bad with the EML 300B. I think its alright. I still believe the EML rectifiers, though decent, can be outperformed by far cheaper NOS tubes though.


 
  
 +1.
  
 Which version of the EML 300B are you running? I have heard good things about the EML 300B mesh and I am very happy with the EAT 300Bs (similar tube to the EML base 300B, as best I can tell).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tonynewman said:


> +1.
> 
> Which version of the EML 300B are you running? I have heard good things about the EML 300B mesh and I am very happy with the EAT 300Bs (similar tube to the EML base 300B, as best I can tell).


 
  
 the regular 300b, non-mesh or solid plate.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> the regular 300b, non-mesh or solid plate.


 
  
 Pretty much the same thing as the EAT 300B. Same glass and very, very similar internals as best I can tell from the available pictures of the stock EML 300B. It's a very nice tube for me so far in the WA5 - detailed, balanced and musical. Treble and bass extension appear quite good also. Perhaps not quite as much bass extension as the SERPs, but I think it is a better balanced tube. Very nice mids YMMV.


----------



## punit

I have a Mullard 5V4G rec, which I have read on the net is basically the Mullrd CV593. Mullard sold them in US as 5V4G's & in UK as CV593. Can someone who has the Mullrd CV593 check if the internals are exactly identical ? If not then the above statement is not true & I need to get the CV 593.


----------



## gibosi

The 5V4G has a lower maximum current capacity. So if your amp requires 250ma or so, it will not do, as the maximum output of the 5V4G is 175ma. The 5V4G corresponds to the CV729.
  
 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0597.htm


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> The 5V4G has a lower maximum current capacity. So if your amp requires 250ma or so, it will not do, as the maximum output of the 5V4G is 175ma. The 5V4G corresponds to the CV729.
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0597.htm


 

 Thanks for the link. The CV 593 has a even lower maximum current capacity = 125ma.
  
 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0203.htm


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Other than that it looks very similar. Studied your pics and looked at mine.
 A couple of close ups of mine:


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > The 5V4G has a lower maximum current capacity. So if your amp requires 250ma or so, it will not do, as the maximum output of the 5V4G is 175ma. The 5V4G corresponds to the CV729.
> ...


 

 Don't try this tube in your OTL it will  blow up a expensive tube it would be way over current.


----------



## gibosi

punit said:


> Thanks for the link. The CV 593 has a even lower maximum current capacity = 125ma.
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0203.htm


 
  
 Of course, you should take Glenn's advice. 
  
 Very frankly, I find it very hard to figure out the maximum current capacity from data sheets. It appears to depend on the circuit configuration, the operating voltage and whether there is condenser input to filter or choke input to filter....
  
 In a condenser circuit, the CV593 is limited to 125ma at 500 volts. At 350 volts, the max current s 250ma, and at 300 volts, it is 300ma. In a choke circuit, the limits are 300ma at 400 volts and 250ma at 500 volts.
  
  http://www.drtube.com/datasheets/gz32-philips1949.pdf
  
 Whereas, the 5V4G seems to limited to 175ma in both kinds of circuits.... Again, I just do not find these rectifier datasheets to be very helpful.....
  
 http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/5/5V4G.pdf


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the link. The CV 593 has a even lower maximum current capacity = 125ma.
> ...


 

 The CV593 will be OK but forget about the 5V4G in the OTL


----------



## shultzee

Anyone looking for a very nice Mighty 596 , I have one for sale here    http://www.head-fi.org/t/736465/united-electronics-usaf-596-mighty-596
 Tks


----------



## Badas

I have also tried the CBS Hytron 5AW4. Mine is re-badged as a GE.
  
 What a great sounding tube. Compared to the Mullard GZ32 it has a slight more top and low end. However I found the soundstage closed in a bit. In the end I still prefer the Mullard. Great price for great sound tho.
  
 Also it is a really strange looking Rectifier. No Glow. Look at my WA22 now it looks like a holder for some ladies favorite battery operated toys.


----------



## roskodan

good thing you got rid of the one with the brown stuff


----------



## Lorspeaker

My Sheldon 5AW4 is surprisingly 3D on the CSP2+.... ( exceeding my Sylvania  5y3 ) 
 and can sound beefy n defined when i swap around diff combo of input n driver tubes.


----------



## punit

badas said:


> Also it is a really strange looking Rectifier. No Glow. Look at my WA22 now it looks like a holder for some ladies favorite battery operated toys.


----------



## rosgr63

badas said:


> Also it is a really strange looking Rectifier. No Glow. Look at my WA22 now it looks like a holder for some ladies favorite battery operated toys.


 
  
 Doesn't look as colourful....................


----------



## punit

badas said:


> I have also tried the CBS Hytron 5AW4. Mine is re-badged as a GE.
> 
> What a great sounding tube. Compared to the Mullard GZ32 it has a slight more top and low end. However *I found the soundstage closed in a bit*. In the end I still prefer the Mullard. Great price for great sound tho.


 
 Try it with TS 5998, will improve the sound stage. Sound stage is also a result of the tube combination used.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> Try it with TS 5998, will improve the sound stage. Sound stage is also a result of the tube combination used.


 

 I have a set of TS 7236 power tubes. Will that be okay?
  
 I really need those tube saver things to arrive. It seems I'm changing tubes every two days now.
  
 My favorite combo and I don't think it could be improved on for me is: Mullard GZ32 Rectifier, TS 7236 power and RCA greyglass. Loved it.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I have a set of TS 7236 power tubes. Will that be okay?
> 
> I really need those tube saver things to arrive. It seems I'm changing tubes every two days now.
> 
> My favorite combo and I don't think it could be improved on for me is: Mullard GZ32 Rectifier, TS 7236 power and RCA greyglass. Loved it.


 
  
 ...Mullard GZ32 Rectifier...
  
 That is a one sweet tube for the money. One of the best tube tips I have recieved.
  
 This is a fantastic thread - if only there was something similar for 300Bs.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> Try it with TS 5998, will improve the sound stage. Sound stage is also a result of the tube combination used.


 

 Wow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just looked it up on e-bay. Out of my $$ range.


----------



## bonesnv

You can get a pair of TS 5998's for the same or cheaper than the 7236's. Just have to keep an eye out for them. There are some pairs for $300'ish but fairly often a slew of them will go up for much cheaper. Last set I got was $140 for the pair.


----------



## Badas

I took a punt and purchased two of these. $29 each.
  
 Look similar construction to the Mullard GZ32. I will let ya know what they sound like when rolled.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I took a punt and purchased two of these. $29 each.
> 
> Look similar construction to the Mullard GZ32. I will let ya know what they sound like when rolled.


 
  
 Score! If they sound anything like as good as the GZ32 they will be a bargain.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Score! If they sound anything like as good as the GZ32 they will be a bargain.


 
  
 If it sounds okay or great. I will flick ya one to try for a while if you want?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> If it sounds okay or great. I will flick ya one to try for a while if you want?


 
 Thanks - but I have more rectifier than I know what to do with. I went a bit berserk with the WA6 and WA5 - have a bunch of GZ32s / Sophia Princess / EML / Psvane WE274B ... probably some others as well.
  
 Tube rolling is addictive as hell - just one more tube...


----------



## Lorspeaker

rather these two look exactly alike and sound alike...to my ears..lol.
 ( agile, balanced...more teutonic german sounding..)
  
 Doubt it sounds similar to the mullard GZ32 ..which has more bloom..euphonic ..softer punch)


----------



## Badas

lorspeaker said:


> rather these two look exactly alike and sound alike...to my ears..lol.
> ( agile, balanced...more teutonic german sounding..)
> 
> Doubt it sounds similar to the mullard GZ32 ..which has more bloom..euphonic ..softer punch)




Arghhh not so good sounding then. Oh well I didn't pay to much.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Arghhh not so good sounding then. Oh well I didn't pay to much.


 
  
 Try to give them at least 50 hours before making a call on them - more if you have the patience for it. I have had several cases where a tube has changed for the better after significant burn in.
  
 I am burning in a Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica tube right now on my WA6. These tubes sounded so bad for the first 100+ hours that I had to rip them out of my WA5 and put one in the WA6 for an extended burn in. Grainy and harsh - this is the sort of tube that makes you want to throw it against the wall while screaming obscenities. Fingernails dragged down a blackboard are sweet delight in comparison. Seriously bad.
  
 Around 150 hours the harshness has started to fade, the grain is being replaced by detail and I am sensing some warmth and sound stage building up. Extension up and down is also slowly happening. I have about 200 hours on this tube right now and it is still changing and improving. My guess is that it will need the full 300+ hours recommended by the manufacturer before it stabilizes. Right now it sounds 'OK' - still not up to GZ32 level - but it hasn't finished maturing yet. If it can surpass the GZ32 I will be pleased, otherwise it is 2x$200 USD down the ****ter ($400 for the pair).


----------



## Lorspeaker

doesnt mean that....great if u are looking for superb seperation n agility ..as in classical music. 
 ( the telefunken was listed for 90bucks...vs the 29bucks?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Try to give them at least 50 hours before making a call on them - more if you have the patience for it. I have had several cases where a tube has changed for the better after significant burn in.
> 
> I am burning in a Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica tube right now on my WA6. These tubes sounded so bad for the first 100+ hours that I had to rip them out of my WA5 and put one in the WA6 for an extended burn in. Grainy and harsh - this is the sort of tube that makes you want to throw it against the wall while screaming obscenities. Fingernails dragged down a blackboard are sweet delight in comparison. Seriously bad.
> 
> Around 150 hours the harshness has started to fade, the grain is being replaced by detail and I am sensing some warmth and sound stage building up. Extension up and down is also slowly happening. I have about 200 hours on this tube right now and it is still changing and improving. My guess is that it will need the full 300+ hours recommended by the manufacturer before it stabilizes. Right now it sounds 'OK' - still not up to GZ32 level - but it hasn't finished maturing yet. If it can surpass the GZ32 I will be pleased, otherwise it is 2x$200 USD down the ****ter ($400 for the pair).




Nicely put. You gave me a chuckle also. I will give them a burn. I might as well. 




lorspeaker said:


> doesnt mean that....great if u are looking for superb seperation n agility ..as in classical music.
> ( the telefunken was listed for 90bucks...vs the 29bucks?




So I scored on price. Excellent. Just doesn't sound like my signature. Doesn't matter I will give them a go anyway. 

Cute looking rectifier.


----------



## Oskari

lorspeaker said:


> ( agile, balanced...more teutonic german sounding..)


 
  
 I believe they are French, though.


----------



## Rossliew

2359glenn said:


> The 5AW4 comes with two different type plates  one surrounds the filament in little tubes
> this is the one you want.  The one that it is like a 5U4 plates is nothing special.
> Here is a pix of the type plates you want.   The tube in the pix is the one I gave to Punit.
> It is the tube on the left.


 
 Will the 5AW4 tube work in a Stratus?


----------



## 2359glenn

rossliew said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The 5AW4 comes with two different type plates  one surrounds the filament in little tubes
> ...


 

 If it can use a 5U4 it can use a 5AW4.


----------



## Badas

I have done some testing between the 5AW4 and the Mullard CV378 (my favorite tube) over the past few weeks.
  
 The 5AW4 is a great tube. Very close to the Mullard.
  
 I would say a little closer to a SS sound. However the Mullard is very lush.
 If you like slightly faster pace from a tube then the 5AW4 is the winner.
  
 Very please to own a few.


----------



## Lorspeaker

two Dario Gz32 just came in..one is a 5pin...one is a 8pin... scratching my head.


----------



## Stereolab42

lorspeaker said:


> two Dario Gz32 just came in..one is a 5pin...one is a 8pin... scratching my head.


 
  
 Lol... I would suggest busting out the multimeter if you don't have a tube tester. I bet the 3 extra pins are dead.


----------



## Lorspeaker

the 8pin fit is darnnn tigggght. pass me the mount fuji squalene oil quiccck !


----------



## 2359glenn

Only 4 pins are used on these rectifier tubes 2 , 4 , 6 , 8


----------



## bonesnv

Well, finally found a metal base GZ34 for a non-astronomical price.  DG's explanation doesn't need anymore from me to describe this tube, it's spot on in regards to how it sounds in the WA22.  I tried it for about a week before I took it, since I really bought it for work.  Snagged an amp from a fellow Head-Fi'er to replace half of my Schiit stack.  The costs on both were to on point to not go for it, plus Mr. Bill approves.
  

  
 Now I just have the somewhat tedious wait for an after-market headphone cable terminated with 3-pin XLR's.


----------



## TonyNewman

*Review - Psvane WE274B 1:1 Replica*
  
 This is a review I have been waiting a very long time to write. This is a tube that needs a tremendous amount of burn in. Along the way it takes the listener along for an extended audio torture session. To sum up:
  
*0 to 200 hours*. Harsh, grainy, constricted and just plain nasty. Horrid. Hammering 6" nails through the most sensitive parts of your body and then setting them on fire would be a joy compared to listening to this tube. I came close to throwing it against the wall more than once. I simply could not live with this tube in my WA5 and had to remove them and relegate one of them to my WA6 to complete burn in.
  
*200 to 250 hours.* Slowly, session by session, the harshness faded a little more each time. The grain was replaced by detail. The sound became increasingly extended combined with the beginning of a noticeable sweetness in the mid range. Increasingly pleasant to listen to.
  
*250 to 300+ hours.* Some magic is happening here. Lovely, velvety mids. Deep, powerful bass of a sort I have never heard before on my WA6. Good, controlled treble. Lovely, lovely vocals of the sort that can make a person buckle at the knees. Sound stage and separation are also good.
  
*Comparison*
 The best rectifiers I have to compare with are an EML mesh 274B, Sophia Princess and Mullard GZ32s. The EML 274B and Princess just aren't in the same room - no comparison at all. The GZ32 is a fine rectifier and comes closer - but I can't hear the same extension, detail, clarity and lovely, lovely mids that I am getting from this tube.
  
 At around $200 this is not a cheap rectifier. However, it represents much better value than the $270 EML mesh 274B.
  
 Given that you can buy around 2 GZ32s for the price of one of these, is it worth the extra cost? To me, the answer is yes, but I am a total audio whore for sweet mids and vocals. Throw in the extension, strong bass and lovely smoothness and I am all over this. I love my GZ32s in a way that is mildly indecent, but they are getting the shove for these rectifiers from Psvane.
  
 My only hesitation is around reliability and longevity. The jury is still out for Psvanes on this.
  
*Conclusion*
 If you have the patience to see out a burn in period that lasts longer than some governments, and at times can make you want to stab yourself in the face with scissors, and can accept some degree of risk around reliability and longevity, then I give this tube a strong recommendation.
  
*Test rig*
 PC->Simaudio Moon 100D->WA6 (Shuguang BT CV-181s), HD600.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tonynewman said:


> *Review - Psvane WE274B 1:1 Replica*
> 
> This is a review I have been waiting a very long time to write. This is a tube that needs a tremendous amount of burn in. Along the way it takes the listener along for an extended audio torture session. To sum up:
> 
> ...


----------



## punit

well written Tony, made me smile .


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


>


 

 Glad you enjoyed my review. This is one of the most useful threads on HeadFi - thanks again for your efforts


----------



## punit

Anyone tried the Fivre 5U4G ?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/390507231535?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Stereolab42

punit said:


> Anyone tried the Fivre 5U4G ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390507231535?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Looks cool, but for $150 each?!?


----------



## bonesnv

Looks similar to an RCA 5U4G.  Searching for them, got this.
  
_- FIVRE was the largest all-Italian company, founded in 1932 in Pavia by Magneti Marelli to produce vacuum tubes under Radiotron license. For a while their tube supplies to the parent company, Marelli, were characterized by distinctive violet-glass bulbs. In their ads they evidenced the equivalence of their tubes with those manufactured in the United States by RCA. ‘RCA – FIVRE: From America to Italy, different brands but the same quality’ said an ad from a 1934 magazine._
  
  
 If it were a bit cheaper I would test it out, don't really want to test with $150 though, lol.


----------



## Badas

^^^^
  
 What a excellent review Tony. Thanks for all your effort.
  
 Quote:


punit said:


> Anyone tried the Fivre 5U4G ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390507231535?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 I looked at that last night. Decided it was to rich for my blood to try out. Especially when you can get two Mullards for the same price and they are excellent.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> Anyone tried the Fivre 5U4G ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390507231535?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 What about this one? A lot cheaper and very similar. I purchased two to try.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310473434591?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## HeadJammie

Has anyone tried the Mullard CV378 Ina WOO WA22 with HD800's


----------



## HeadJammie

Pressed the Reply button too soon. This is a coke bottle cv378. Is this the same as the GZ37?


----------



## Badas

headjammie said:


> Pressed the Reply button too soon. This is a coke bottle cv378. Is this the same as the GZ37?


 

 Yes they are suppose to be the same.


----------



## HeadJammie

Thanks Badas for the clarification. Any idea how they sound?. Know someone with a couple pairs for sale.


----------



## Badas

headjammie said:


> Thanks Badas for the clarification. Any idea how they sound?. Know someone with a couple pairs for sale.


 
 Yes. There is a description at the start of this thread. I haven't tried myself, however I want to. Bidding on a couple now on fleabay. What sort of price from your supplier?
  
 I have tried the Mullard GZ32 in my Woo WA22. One of the best.
  

  
  
*3. Mullard/Cossor CV378/GZ37/53KU (fat bottle GZ37) (Brown base)*

                Another British tube, this one made in High Wycombe, England around the early 1950s. I've seen it branded as Cossor, Mullard, and GEC/Osram/Marconi/etc. It comes in brown or black base as well. This is a very nice tube overall. Its slightly warmer than the GEC U52, offering a little more bass body and punch and more warmth while maintaining good speed and PRaT. Transparency is very similar, offering liquid silky smooth transients and a grain-free presentation. However, this tube is warmer, not as airy, and the slight extra fullness and more tubey midrange make it a little slower overall. For brighter setups and headphones, this tube offers top-level performance while maintaining clarity and detail. It doesn't veil the midrange or treble like cheaper tubes would (this is very noticeable on headphones like the T1 or the HD 800). This tube is also great for jazz and vocals, very natural timbre and tube warmth. Great bass performance and warmth make this tube a winner for me. Unfortunately, this tube can be hard to find, often selling for $300-450$. It is cheaper than the U52 or WE422A though and might be good for those wanting to use it in a WA5 or WA6-SE. Compared to the newer and much more commonly available Mullard GZ37/CV378 skinny bottle, this tube is much better since it's not as slow and the bass is better textured and cleaner sounding as well as being faster and more resolving overall.
  
*5. Mullard CV378/GZ37/53KU (skinny bottle GZ37) (Brown base)*

                 This is the newer version of the GZ37, made in the late 50s and 60s. It was made in Blackburn, England rather than High Wycombe like the older fat bottle version. Sounds like the fat bottle GZ37 but with a few differences. Soundstage and image remains good, very wide and with great depth. But it lacks some of the fine layering of the older version. Transparency is almost as good, offering a somewhat grain-free presentation, but perhaps not as liquid smooth in the decay and transients. Treble isn't as extended, though warmth remains the same, this is a warm and laid-back tube. Bass is nice and full with good body, but it does lack the extension of the older version, by just a bit. It's also slightly less textured and has a little more overhang and it's not as refined overall. Dynamics aren't as good either. Details and nuances don't come in as cleanly as with the other tube, its more smoothed out and it seems like it can't resolve quite the same. The midrange seems a little darker as well. Overall, this is a good tube for those wanting a warm and laid-back presentation. For the price, this is a pretty good tube, but it definitely doesn't compare to the older GZ37. This tube tends to sell anywhere from $80 to $150 per tube.


----------



## HeadJammie

The price seems really great at $150/pair. I am going to check them out this week to see if they are as advertised.


----------



## Badas

headjammie said:


> The price seems really great at $150/pair. I am going to check them out this week to see if they are as advertised.


 
  
 If they are the skinny bottle then you can buy them at $65 each from Upscale Audio. A better price.


----------



## HeadJammie

Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Badas

Received two of these Fivre 5R4GY's today.
  
 Nice looking tube. If they sound as good as they look I will pick up a few more.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i m curious about this tube too...could u ref its sound vs your other tubes..?


----------



## Badas

lorspeaker said:


> i m curious about this tube too...could u ref its sound vs your other tubes..?


 

 I certainly will.
  
 Sorry the only one I can compare to is the Mullard GZ32 and CBS Hytron 5AW4.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i hav both....


----------



## Badas

lorspeaker said:


> i hav both....


 
  
 Yeah. But I bet a lot more than just those two.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> I certainly will.
> 
> Sorry the only one I can compare to is the Mullard GZ32 and CBS Hytron 5AW4.


 
 Which one do you  like best between SP 274B and Mullard GZ32 thats one tube ive been looking at for a bit ,also waiting  to get my adapter for RK60 tubes will see how that sounds .


----------



## HeadJammie

I am a newbie to this scene. The thread is very long so it has been very difficult for someone like me who is new to high-end headphone listening ( I just recently purchased a Hd800 and Woo WA22 - couldn't quite stretch to the Wa-5). The standard tubes really suck. With my previous amp, I was at least able to decide on a power tube. I have a pair of A1834 Gec tubes. 

My previous amp used only 1 power tube which made it easy to compare the 421a WE against the A1834 GEC and the TungSol 5998. From that comparison I decided on the A1834 Gec.

However, at this point I have no idea as to what other driver and rectifier tubes I should investigate given that they need to be compatible with the A1834.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Which one do you  like best between SP 274B and Mullard GZ32 thats one tube ive been looking at for a bit ,also waiting  to get my adapter for RK60 tubes will see how that sounds .


 
  
 Can my Woo WA22 use these?


----------



## Badas

headjammie said:


> I am a newbie to this scene. The thread is very long so it has been very difficult for someone like me who is new to high-end headphone listening ( I just recently purchased a Hd800 and Woo WA22 - couldn't quite stretch to the Wa-5). The standard tubes really suck. With my previous amp, I was at least able to decide on a power tube. I have a pair of A1834 Gec tubes.
> 
> My previous amp used only 1 power tube which made it easy to compare the 421a WE against the A1834 GEC and the TungSol 5998. From that comparison I decided on the A1834 Gec.
> 
> However, at this point I have no idea as to what other driver and rectifier tubes I should investigate given that they need to be compatible with the A1834.


 
  
 I would start with the Mullard GZ32. This made the biggest change to my WA22. Took away that cheap tubes sound straight away.


----------



## MIKELAP

Check out page 325 post 4863  of the woo audio amps owner unite .i had my RK60 adapter made by 2359 glenn its on its way .By the way sorry for your wallet lol


----------



## BlakeT

Hello, great thread!
  
 I recently purchased this Brimar 5U4G tube:
  

  
 The seller mentioned it is labeled Brimar, made in England, but said he believes it was actually manufactured for Brimar by Mullard, November 1952 at the Hammersmith location due to the markings (Z, N, K)
  
 Looking carefully at my tube and comparing it to close up pictures on the web of the GEC/Osram etc. U52's, I am thinking my tube is the same as the GEC/Osram U52, described by Dubstep Girl at the beginning of this thread.
  
 Are my assumptions correct, or am I missing something?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

blaket said:


> Hello, great thread!
> 
> I recently purchased this Brimar 5U4G tube:
> 
> ...


 
  
 you are correct, Brimar labeled U52 / 5U4Gs are out there and yours appears to be one of them!


----------



## Oskari

blaket said:


> The seller mentioned it is labeled Brimar, made in England, but said he believes it was actually manufactured for Brimar by Mullard, November 1952 at the Hammersmith location due to the markings (Z, N, K)


 
  
 Where does he get 1952 from? My guess would be October 1957. Hammersmith is correct but this was a GEC/MOV facility, not a Mullard facility.


----------



## MIKELAP

Would this tube called RK60 (first and second pictures)  be the same as this RK60 (2nd picture) would it use same adapter but with different end caps ?


----------



## BlakeT

oskari said:


> Where does he get 1952 from? My guess would be October 1957. Hammersmith is correct but this was a GEC/MOV facility, not a Mullard facility.


 
  
 He said:
  
 “*Z*” marking would indicate MO Valve Co – Hammersmith, “*N*” would stand for 1952 production year and “*K*” would stand for November.


----------



## BlakeT

dubstep girl said:


> you are correct, Brimar labeled U52 / 5U4Gs are out there and yours appears to be one of them!


 
  
  
 Awesome news for me!  Thanks DSG!


----------



## Oskari

mikelap said:


> Would this tube called RK60 (first and second pictures)  be the same as this RK60 (2nd picture) would it use same adapter but with different end caps ?


 
  
 Nope. The 3C24 seems to be a transmitting triode while the RK60 is a rectifier.


----------



## Oskari

blaket said:


> “*Z*” marking would indicate MO Valve Co – Hammersmith


 
  
 Correct. (This is not Mullard.)
  


> “*N*” would stand for 1952 production year


 
  
 If this were a tube with CV codes made for the UK government, _N_ would definitely indicate the year 1957. I'm not entirely sure whether this is true or not for MOV's civilian production. But it doesn't really matter, good stuff either way.


----------



## BlakeT

oskari said:


> Correct. (This is not Mullard.)
> 
> 
> If this were a tube with CV codes made for the UK government, _N_ would definitely indicate the year 1957. I'm not entirely sure whether this true or not for MOV's civilian production. But it doesn't really matter, good stuff either way.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the additional information Oskari.  Looking forward to trying this tube out in my IHA-1.


----------



## Stereolab42

oskari said:


> Nope. The 3C24 seems to be a transmitting triode while the RK60 is a rectifier.


 
  
 Frank's tube data page claims this as the equivalent of the VT204:
  
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/114/h/HK24G.pdf
  
 Yup, it's a triode. I sent a message to the seller asking him to update the auction.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> Frank's tube data page claims this as the equivalent of the VT204:
> 
> http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/114/h/HK24G.pdf
> 
> Yup, it's a triode. I sent a message to the seller asking him to update the auction.


 
 Sent one also .


----------



## Badas

I'm having a nice time with the Fivre 5R4GY.
  

  
 So far so good. I don't want to say too much at this time and I want to roll back the Mullard to compare. I also would like someone else to give a second opinion. Maybe TonyNewMan as he is in the same city. I would drop off.
  
 I have used both tubes to test both were working okay. No faults. Nice looking tube. Largish. Not much glow to look at.
  
 Initial thoughts on sound:
  
 Very similar sound to the Mullard GZ32. I really can't hear to much between them other than the Fivre is more lush. Could be my new favorite inexpensive tube.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I'm having a nice time with the Fivre 5R4GY.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm in. PM me to arrange something.
  
 I can lend you a Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica to try - I would like to get a second opinion on one of these too


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I'm in. PM me to arrange something.
> 
> I can lend you a Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica to try - I would like to get a second opinion on one of these too


 

 Cool. So hold off guys on the Fivre. Lets see what a second opinion says?


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Received two of these Fivre 5R4GY's today.
> 
> Nice looking tube. If they sound as good as they look I will pick up a few more.


 
 They are about same price as Mullards GZ32 in the  $100.00 range


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> They are about same price as Mullards GZ32 in the  $100.00 range




Nope. I got mine for GDP 25 each. Ruff conversion about US$40 each. 

Listening to now and I like more than the Mullard. Very smooth and lush. No upper detail gone. Not the most bass heavy, however nor was the Mullard.


----------



## Lorspeaker

and how does it match up to the 5AW4?


----------



## Badas

lorspeaker said:


> and how does it match up to the 5AW4?




Very different.

I would put them this way. Others would probably disagree.

5AW4 is a very Solid State sounding rectifier. I'm not a fan of SS sounding tubes. I don't get their point. Might as well stay with a SS amp which I already have.

Mullard GZ32 takes the 5AW4 sound and bloats the mid range and smoothes the whole frequency range. More Mellow. Slower placing. A great tube.

The Fivre takes the Mullard sound and mellows in even further. First two hours was harsh then it settled in. It is lush and mellow however keeps the pace. 

Some might find the Fivre pushes the lushness too far and the Mullard is the best fit. Myself I like it and prefer it to the Mullard. However I like switching between the SS Oppo and the tube Woo and hearing a big difference. 

That's how I see them.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> Very different.
> 
> I would put them this way. Others would probably disagree.
> 
> ...


 
  
 5AW4 doesn't sound solid state at all to me in my WA22.  What power and driver tubes are you pairing it with?  What headphones are you using?  What are the variables of the testing being performed?  The 5AW4 in the WA22 needs more spacial/airy sounding power and driver tube combinations to get rid of some of the compressed sound features, or even anything remotely sounding solid state.
  
 The GZ32 has a wider sound stage, but only barely when the 5AW4 is properly paired with proper tube pairings.  Same can be said in some regard to the 596 or GZ34 metal base. 
  
 You need to try some of these tubes with something besides 6SN7's and 6080's.  The 7236's are alright but they don't provide anywhere near the expansive airy sound of 6AS7 based tubes, such as 5998 or even the Tung-Sol 6520's.  I personally don't like any of the bottle 6080 tubes I have tried, including the WB Graphites, WA black plates and some others.
  
 Grab a set of RCA/National VT-99's if you aren't wanting to go the Tung-Sol route, as both sound very good and open up the 5AW4 as well as other rectifiers that come off as SS in sound signature.  I have tried almost every rectifier I can now at this point, getting the most out of them with the WA22 depends entirely on what else is in the chain of tubes.
  
 The 5AW4 paired with Ken Ran VT-231's and TS7236 sounds like complete ear rape.


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> ...
> 
> The 5AW4 paired with Ken Ran VT-231's and TS7236 sounds like complete ear rape.


 
  
 Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> 5AW4 doesn't sound solid state at all to me in my WA22.  What power and driver tubes are you pairing it with?  What headphones are you using?  What are the variables of the testing being performed?  The 5AW4 in the WA22 needs more spacial/airy sounding power and driver tube combinations to get rid of some of the compressed sound features, or even anything remotely sounding solid state.
> 
> The GZ32 has a wider sound stage, but only barely when the 5AW4 is properly paired with proper tube pairings.  Same can be said in some regard to the 596 or GZ34 metal base.
> 
> ...


 

 I know. That is why at the start I said I didn't want to give a review and just wanted to give impressions on what I have to play with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The other aspect is I might not know what I'm talking about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only been in the tube game for 6-8 weeks. Hell I've only been into headgear since July. Worse thing I did for my wallet is buy a pair on Senny HD700's.
  
 Which is why I think a second opinion is more important. I like a certain sound signature which other might not like and others are more experienced. Thanks to TonyNewMan he will test one of my Fivre tubes in his rig.
  
 My gear.
  
 Oppo HA-1 being used as a DAC, balanced connections into WA22. Right now I'm using the Fivre 5R4GY rectifier (comparing to the Mullard), I just switched to Raytheon 6AS7G's last night a beautiful pair (was using RCA Chrometop 6AS7G's) for power tubes and finally the RCA 6SN7 GT Greyglass for Drivers. Headphones are the Audeze LCD-3C using balanced connection.
  
 To my ears it is sounding beautiful. I don't like harsh treble and the most treble rich albums are great. Other are even better. Switching from the Fivre to the Mullard there is not much difference. Same soundstage, same sound signature on treble, mid and bass, same speed it is just slightly smoother and lush. At almost half the price. So to me it is a score.


----------



## MIKELAP

Is Brimar GZ32 a decent tube how does it compare to the Fivre 5r4gy tube


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Is Brimar GZ32 a decent tube how does it compare to the Fivre 5r4gy tube


 

 Hard to say as I have never had one. The old ones look great. Hard to say what they sound like. ebay has plenty of new looking ones, they are just Russian tubes. I would avoid those.


----------



## bonesnv

Sorry, I tend to write and speak very black & white (ie, bluntly), didn't mean for that to come off as rude or a bash.  You perhaps like the sound of the 6SN7's, I didn't care for most except the Tung-Sol's, so that may be our difference.  Musical preferences define the sounds we prefer; we may not listen to anything close to the same type of music, same volume levels or even have the same tonality preferences (basshead/treblehead, etc).  
  
 To me, the VT-99 (6F8G) sounds far more spacial and open than any of the 6SN7's I have tried in the Woo.  The RCA's are $100 for a pair for the VT-99, which should "theoretically" comply to the same mil-spec standards of the other 6F8G/VT-99's.  The difference with the RCA and TS I have found is that the RCA have a round mica and are a bit more bulbous, where as the TS have a rectangular or a square mica and seem more slender, also seem a little more rugged and overall well built.
  
 However, I found they both sounded so close that it was hard to justify the price difference between the RCA and TS versions of the VT-99, though the TS does edge it out in my opinion (though that may be delusion trying to justify my tube purchases). 
  
 So if you want to spend the money and don't give a schiit, get the TS, if you want to save some cash and want to try a 6F8G/VT-99, go with an RCA.  If you ever find 5998's for cheap, buy them, immediately.  Your LCD's will love the extra power and they are much more spacial and open sounding than the 7236's and any of the other round bottle 6080 variations I have tried.  The 6080's do however love the HD650's, the WB graphite being numero uno and the WA black plates second.
  
  
 NOTE:  Yes, I know totally off-topic for a rectifier thread, my fault, should be in the Woo thread.  I get confused sometimes which threads I am posting in since it is much of the same people.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> Sorry, I tend to write and speak very black & white (ie, bluntly), didn't mean for that to come off as rude or a bash.  You perhaps like the sound of the 6SN7's, I didn't care for most except the Tung-Sol's, so that may be our difference.  Musical preferences define the sounds we prefer; we may not listen to anything close to the same type of music, same volume levels or even have the same tonality preferences (basshead/treblehead, etc).
> 
> To me, the VT-99 (6F8G) sounds far more spacial and open than any of the 6SN7's I have tried in the Woo.  The RCA's are $100 for a pair for the VT-99, which should "theoretically" comply to the same mil-spec standards of the other 6F8G/VT-99's.  The difference with the RCA and TS I have found is that the RCA have a round mica and are a bit more bulbous, where as the TS have a rectangular or a square mica and seem more slender, also seem a little more rugged and overall well built.
> 
> ...


 
  
 All good. I didn't take it a bad way. I have read a lot of your posts and respect them. A real asset to this site and tube discussions.
  
 Yeah. 6F8G's have been haunting me. See it is early days for me and I didn't really want the hassle of adapters so I decided to stay on the 6SN7 path. I'm really happy with my RCA Greyglass as they toned down the treble. I kinda fallen in love with those tubes and have others on the way. However I understand the 6F8G family might bring something else to the table. Mark my words I will investigate that. At this stage tho it will have to wait until next year. Christmas coming and I have two boys to buy presents for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Agreed. 6080 tubes have not impressed me either. 7236 is nice. However I like the 6AS7G's better. With the exception a lot of them are noisy. At the moment I have a real nice set of Raytheon's that are not noisy and produce a great sound.


----------



## Bigsecret

blaket said:


> Hello, great thread!
> 
> I recently purchased this Brimar 5U4G tube:
> 
> ...


 
 Looks just like my GEC U52. I bought an extra after realizing how special it was, especially in DNA Stratus. I also heard the Z models are faster and more detailed which is what I have noticed comparing them to all my other rectifiers. Unless it just isn't a good fit for your am, you should be very pleased.


----------



## BlakeT

bigsecret said:


> Looks just like my GEC U52. I bought an extra after realizing how special it was, especially in DNA Stratus. I also heard the Z models are faster and more detailed which is what I have noticed comparing them to all my other rectifiers. Unless it just isn't a good fit for your am, you should be very pleased.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the follow-up Bigsecret.  That is interesting info about the "Z" designation. The tube is on its way from Australia and I should have it within the week.  I am really looking forward to it.


----------



## bonesnv

My understanding in researching the U52 is that the curved brown bases were apparently made for audio applications where as the curved black bases were made for industrial usages, so are more ruggedized and may come off as a little less refined/granier when used in audio applications.  I can somewhat vouch for this as my Marconi brown base and black base GEC sound similar but just a little different.  Don't quote me 100% on this, just what I have found in research.
  
 In regards to the markings, Google around and see what you can find but I think Oskari summed it up.  I wouldn't worry about it to much as long as it functions properly, it is definitely a U52.  You can occasionally find old PDF copies of the tube manuals floating around if you look hard enough.  Have not found anything indicating the "Z" marking to mean anything unique to the tube design itself, but could very well be.
  
 Unless you're Glenn and somehow have all the tube information memorized in your head like an encyclopedia.


----------



## Badas

Got a few Rectifiers delivered today.
  
 Scored another Mullard GZ32 making it 3 I own. I eventually want 3 more of these.
  
 The Dario Miniwatts are cute. I will roll those in next. Currently using the Fivre (loving it).
  
 Ignore the stupid Russian power tubes. I shouldn't have purchased those.
  

  
 The Dario's have some white stuff on the end of the pins. Do I give the pins a clean first?


----------



## Badas

Anyone know what this is (brand)? Is it any good?
  
 Local auction (New Zealand). It is only NZ$30 US$25.


----------



## Oskari

Shuguang.


----------



## Oskari

bonesnv said:


> My understanding in researching the U52 is that the curved brown bases were apparently made for audio applications where as the curved black bases were made for industrial usages, so are more ruggedized and may come off as a little less refined/granier when used in audio applications.  I can somewhat vouch for this as my Marconi brown base and black base GEC sound similar but just a little different.  Don't quote me 100% on this, just what I have found in research.


 
  
 My understanding is that the brown base is the generally-later better-spec low-loss 'micanol' base. (Corrections welcomed!)


----------



## bonesnv

oskari said:


> My understanding is that the brown base is the generally-later better-spec low-loss 'micanol' base. (Corrections welcomed!)


 
  
 Interesting tidbit, hadn't heard that one but U52 info is somewhat hard to find.  I do know my Marconi is older than my GEC based on the date codes, so who the hell knows.  Also know that various U52's depending on the age have different getter configurations too.  The preferred I have found are the ones with the inverted cup instead of the D getters.  I have one of each and I think the inverted cup produces a better sound that is slightly more euphonic and airy.
  
 Then again, I go back to one of my earlier comments; I may be finding differences and subtle nuances out of sheer delusion to support my decision to spend the money I did on the tubes I have, lol.  The mind can do interesting things when the will is there to believe something.


----------



## Oskari

bonesnv said:


> Interesting tidbit, hadn't heard that one but U52 info is somewhat hard to find.


 
  
 What I wrote above was in no way specific to the U52 (of which I know next to nothing).


----------



## Badas

Been inspecting the internal design differences between my Mullard GZ32 and the Miniwatt GZ32.
  
 They are near identical. Same bottom micra, Exactly the same plates and size. The Miniwatt has a slightly larger top micra to fit the different size glass however construction is the same.
  
 Biggest difference is the Miniwatt has side getters where the Mullard has bottom. The Getters look the same tho.
  
 I would guess these were made in the same factory.
  
 I can't wait to get home. The Miniwatt is going straight in.
  
 If they sound similar it will be a great score. I got two of these for US$29 each.


----------



## bonesnv

Here is what all of my CV593's look like for comparison.  Tried getting a picture of the getter but didn't seem to turn out well, but all have O getters.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Yeah. Two of mine are the same as yours. I got mine from Upscale audio.
  
 The one received today has square getters. The Miniwatt has the same but located on the side rather than the bottom. Probably a save space design.


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> Been inspecting the internal design differences between my Mullard GZ32 and the Miniwatt GZ32.
> 
> They are near identical. Same bottom micra, Exactly the same plates and size. The Miniwatt has a slightly larger top micra to fit the different size glass however construction is the same.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can you make out the production codes on these tubes? It should be printed on the side of the glass, close to the bottom. On the Dario, you might see two lines with colons and then some numbers/letters. For example, I have a straight-glass Dario GZ32 with ":6527" and below it, ":JZ" or something like that. The use of the colon was very typical of Mazda, and this tube was likely manufactured in 1965. If the Mullard-labeled tube was actually manufactured by Mullard, you should see a standard Philips production code. For example, I have a shouldered Mullard GZ32 with two lines: "R71 /  B9E". R7 = GZ32, 1 is revision #1, B = Blackburn and 9E = 1959. May. If you don't see a similar code, it was not manufactured by Mullard. And you might also see Philips shoulder-bottled GZ32's manufactured in France. Instead of "B" for Blackburn, the production codes have an "F" for Suresnes.
  
 Also, my 1959 tube has a D-getter. Mullard GZ32's with O-getters were manufactured later.
  
 And as Oskari pointed out, it is my understanding that these brown bases are made of a low-loss 'micanol' which was usually required for military tubes. I have seen CV593's and GZ32's with the exact same production code. As the base was attached after the tube was manufactured, in terms of audio, the color of the base has absolutely no affect on the sound.


----------



## bonesnv

gibosi said:


> Can you make out the production codes on these tubes? It should be printed on the side of the glass, close to the bottom. On the Dario, you might see two lines with colons and then some numbers/letters. For example, I have a straight-glass Dario GZ32 with ":6527" and below it, ":JZ" or something like that. The use of the colon was very typical of Mazda, and this tube was likely manufactured in 1965. If the Mullard-labeled tube was actually manufactured by Mullard, you should see a standard Philips production code. For example, I have a shouldered Mullard GZ32 with two lines: "R71 /  B9E". R7 = GZ32, 1 is revision #1, B = Blackburn and 9E = 1959. May. If you don't see a similar code, it was not manufactured by Mullard. And you might also see Philips shoulder-bottled GZ32's manufactured in France. Instead of "B" for Blackburn, the production codes have an "F" for Suresnes.
> 
> Also, my 1959 tube has a D-getter. Mullard GZ32's with O-getters were manufactured later.
> 
> And as Oskari pointed out, it is my understanding that these brown bases are made of a low-loss 'micanol' which was usually required for military tubes. I have seen CV593's and GZ32's with the exact same production code. As the base was attached after the tube was manufactured, in terms of audio, the color of the base has absolutely no affect on the sound.


 
  
 I think you are correct regarding the getters, as mine are 1965 and 1967 dated, both have the O-getters.
  
 Please note, I was speaking only about U52's, not GZ32's in regards to their base colors.  I know we have like 3 conversations going on at once here, lol.   Which your information may still be totally correct, but doesn't seem to fit my U52 scenario and findings from the couple I have and research, as I don't believe a U52 tube was made for military uses.  I believe they were only for audio and industrial purposes.  I guess industrial could apply to military use, but haven't found any direct link unless I am totally blind and missed it.  
  
 Then again that could be total BS, hooray internet!  Only have a technical interest in this stuff being in IT, but I am not old enough to have ever dealt with original tubes nor am I an EE, so I have to go off entirely what I can find and learn from old tube manufacturer guides or engineer documentation.


----------



## Badas

gibosi said:


> Can you make out the production codes on these tubes? It should be printed on the side of the glass, close to the bottom. On the Dario, you might see two lines with colons and then some numbers/letters. For example, I have a straight-glass Dario GZ32 with ":6527" and below it, ":JZ" or something like that. The use of the colon was very typical of Mazda, and this tube was likely manufactured in 1965. If the Mullard-labeled tube was actually manufactured by Mullard, you should see a standard Philips production code. For example, I have a shouldered Mullard GZ32 with two lines: "R71 /  B9E". R7 = GZ32, 1 is revision #1, B = Blackburn and 9E = 1959. May. If you don't see a similar code, it was not manufactured by Mullard. And you might also see Philips shoulder-bottled GZ32's manufactured in France. Instead of "B" for Blackburn, the production codes have an "F" for Suresnes.
> 
> Also, my 1959 tube has a D-getter. Mullard GZ32's with O-getters were manufactured later.
> 
> And as Oskari pointed out, it is my understanding that these brown bases are made of a low-loss 'micanol' which was usually required for military tubes. I have seen CV593's and GZ32's with the exact same production code. As the base was attached after the tube was manufactured, in terms of audio, the color of the base has absolutely no affect on the sound.




Cool. One of my Miniwatts has the code 6741 (top line), Looks like UZ-21 (bottom line) and I can't see a code on the other one. 

The Mullard has the code. R71 (top line), BOF (bottom line).


----------



## Bigsecret

bonesnv said:


> My understanding in researching the U52 is that the curved brown bases were apparently made for audio applications where as the curved black bases were made for industrial usages, so are more ruggedized and may come off as a little less refined/granier when used in audio applications.  I can somewhat vouch for this as my Marconi brown base and black base GEC sound similar but just a little different.  Don't quote me 100% on this, just what I have found in research.
> 
> In regards to the markings, Google around and see what you can find but I think Oskari summed it up.  I wouldn't worry about it to much as long as it functions properly, it is definitely a U52.  You can occasionally find old PDF copies of the tube manuals floating around if you look hard enough.  Have not found anything indicating the "Z" marking to mean anything unique to the tube design itself, but could very well be.
> 
> Unless you're Glenn and somehow have all the tube information memorized in your head like an encyclopedia.


 

 Here is a link that mentions the KB/Z U52.
  
 http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?topic=945.0


----------



## bonesnv

bigsecret said:


> Here is a link that mentions the KB/Z U52.
> 
> http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?topic=945.0


 
  
 Only problem is it seems like a most conjecture post (granted so is this one somewhat).  Nobody there posted any links or referenced any documentation directly indicating what it really meant, just that apparently some guy named Steve knew.  Not discounting it, may be true, would just like to see it somewhere else. 
  
 Also seems those may be British specific indicators, as I have no lettering on the Marconi I have and doesn't appear to be a case of anything rubbing off, just aren't any letters, but the GEC does have a Z and up arrow marking above it.  I will dig around some more this weekend and see what I can find.  My first guess is it may be similar to how Russian tubes have the OTK markings on some of them, meaning they met certain requirements during inspection.


----------



## Oskari

bonesnv said:


> I don't believe a U52 tube was made for military uses.


 
  
 Search for CV1071 & CV575 and you'll see them.


----------



## Lorspeaker

> ​look at this tube.....what a beau.


----------



## Oskari

bonesnv said:


> Only problem is it seems like a most conjecture post (granted so is this one somewhat).  Nobody there posted any links or referenced any documentation directly indicating what it really meant, just that apparently some guy named Steve knew.  Not discounting it, may be true, would just like to see it somewhere else.
> 
> Also seems those may be British specific indicators, as I have no lettering on the Marconi I have and doesn't appear to be a case of anything rubbing off, just aren't any letters, but the GEC does have a Z and up arrow marking above it.  I will dig around some more this weekend and see what I can find.  My first guess is it may be similar to how Russian tubes have the OTK markings on some of them, meaning they met certain requirements during inspection.


 
  

http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm
  
 That about sums it up. CV, KB, Z, the broad arrow, etc.
  
 Z still means MOV at Hammersmith.
  
 MOV is short for M-O Valve Co, originally Marconi-Osram Valve Co.


----------



## Oskari

badas said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > On the Dario, you might see two lines with colons and then some numbers/letters. For example, I have a straight-glass Dario GZ32 with ":6527" and below it, ":JZ" or something like that. The use of the colon was very typical of Mazda, and this tube was likely manufactured in 1965.
> ...


 
  
 Dario and Miniwatt are Philips brands but these are definitely codes of the Mazda/Belvu/CIFTE grouping. It could be UZ on both of them. This presumably tells the type. (That's the French Mazda, i.e., Compagnie des Lampes.)
  
 If the internals look Mullard-ish, there may have been some sharing going on. Who knows how / which way…


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> Dario and Miniwatt are Philips brands but these are definitely codes of the Mazda/Belvu/CIFTE grouping. It could be UZ on both of them. This presumably tells the type. (That's the French Mazda, i.e., Compagnie des Lampes.)
> 
> If the internals look Mullard-ish, there may have been some sharing going on. Who knows how / which way…


 

 Interesting. Thank you.


----------



## bonesnv

oskari said:


> Search for CV1071 & CV575 and you'll see them.


 
  
 You know, now that you note that, my GEC U52 has the original box and it states CV575 on it, so that makes sense.  Didn't even notice it before, never really looked at the box.  It also has the black base and inverted cup getter.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Interesting. Thank you.


 
 Still liking your  Fivre's  compared to the  GZ32 Mullard


----------



## bonesnv

oskari said:


> http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm
> 
> That about sums it up. CV, KB, Z, the broad arrow, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent information, thanks.  I had been to that site before but somehow missed reading their CV information page.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Still liking your  Fivre's  compared to the  GZ32 Mullard




Yes I am. Just rolled it last night for the Miniwatt that I got and I can't wait to put the Fivre back in.

The Miniwatt is nothing special. Not bad, I would just say okay to good. Altho the internals look exactly the same as the Mullard it is not a Mullard. 

My favourite rectifiers for my Woo at the moment would be:

1. Fivre 5R4GY
2. Mullard GZ32
3. Miniwatt GZ32
4. CBS 5AW4

However I could be a complete ass and not know what I'm talking about. Wait for TonyNewman to give the Fivre a go. I'm dropping it of to him this weekend.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> However I could be a complete ass and not know what I'm talking about. Wait for TonyNewman to give the Fivre a go. I'm dropping it of to him this weekend.


 
  
 And I have a burned-in Psvane WE274B replica for you to take away and have a go with.
  
 Listening to it now on my WA6 - "_Adele - Someone Like You_" lovely, lovely vocals. Definitely more bass than the GZ32. Powerful with lots of slam on the rockier tracks.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> And I have a burned-in Psvane WE274B replica for you to take away and have a go with.
> 
> Listening to it now on my WA6 - "_Adele - Someone Like You_" lovely, lovely vocals. Definitely more bass than the GZ32. Powerful with lots of slam on the rockier tracks.




Interesting. I'm almost to scared to try it. I will probably want one or two or three. 

Adel. Good idea. I will join ya and put her on now.

I was listening to Robert Plant and Alison Krauss.


----------



## MIKELAP

Received my RK60 adapter today from 2359glenn|studio very nice adapter and nice sounding tube.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Received my RK60 adapter today from 2359glenn|studio very nice adapter and nice sounding tube.


 
  
 Amazing. Is that a WA2 beside it?


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Amazing. Is that a WA2 beside it?


 
 Yes sir .


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Yes sir .


 

 Very nice, I see you have the Tung-Sol 5998 power tube in it. Very impressive.


----------



## Badas

I had some real magic last night listening to the Robert Plant and Alison Krauss album using a GZ32 Mullard.
  
 I going to go home soon and switch to the Fivre 5R4GY and listen to the same album to see if the magic is the same or better.
  
 I still can't believe the price performance ratio of the Fivre 5R4GY. I want to get a conclusion once and for all.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> I had some real magic last night listening to the Robert Plant and Alison Krauss album using a GZ32 Mullard.
> 
> I going to go home soon and switch to the Fivre 5R4GY and listen to the same album to see if the magic is the same or better.
> 
> I still can't believe the price performance ratio of the Fivre 5R4GY. I want to get a conclusion once and for all.


 
 Waiting anxiously also , do report back .


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> Waiting anxiously also , do report back .


 
  
  


badas said:


> I had some real magic last night listening to the Robert Plant and Alison Krauss album using a GZ32 Mullard.
> 
> I going to go home soon and switch to the Fivre 5R4GY and listen to the same album to see if the magic is the same or better.
> 
> I still can't believe the price performance ratio of the Fivre 5R4GY. I want to get a conclusion once and for all.


 
 Would you know the year of manufacture of your Fivre 5R4GY tube. Thanks


----------



## Badas

Okay fairly obvious that there is more magic going on here. A few songs in and I knew. As always it depends on the other tubes.

Tubes and gear. Woo WA22 with the Fivre 5R4GY compared to the Mullard GZ32 rectifiers. Other tubes the Russian 6AS7G's power tubes and RCA Greyglass 6SN7GT's as drivers.

I can now list a few differences between the Fivre and Mullard. All other tubes were left exactly the same.

Listened to the same albulm twice. Robert Plant and Alison Krauss, Raising Sand.

Compared to the Mullard the Fivre does:

1. Delve deeper. More bass. Very clean bass. Not muddy.
2. Treble is higher and more detailed. Doesn't get harsh.
3. Better instrument separation. I think this is a result to more detail in the treble.
4. A warning. I think it reveals more noise in certain soundtracks. The lowest noise level seems to have more detail. However the album has a elevated floor noise level. 

Compared to the Mullard the Fivre does these things the same:

1. Mid range warmth is the same.
2. Pacing and speed.
3. The same lush sound, or maybe a tiny bit more from the added clean bass.

I am so confident with the tube I went and purchased two more before posting this so you guys don't beat me to it. 

Buy here there should be eight more:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310473434591?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Okay fairly obvious that there is more magic going on here. A few songs in and I knew. As always it depends on the other tubes.
> 
> Tubes and gear. Woo WA22 with the Fivre 5R4GY compared to the Mullard GZ32 rectifiers. Other tubes the Russian 6AS7G's power tubes and RCA Greyglass 6SN7GT's as drivers.
> 
> ...


 
 Ordered 1 cant have to many Rectifiers lol .There's one i am tempted to try the 5R4GYS Philips .


----------



## Stereolab42

mikelap said:


> Ordered 1 cant have to many Rectifiers lol .There's one i am tempted to try the 5R4GYS Philips .


 
  
 The Philips from Upscale? I have those on my WA5 right now and it's pretty good. It's a very neutral and detailed rectifier without a lot of pizzazz. Certainly worth considering.


----------



## Lorspeaker

mikelap said:


> Received my RK60 adapter today from 2359glenn|studio very nice adapter and nice sounding tube.


 
  
 one of those AMAZING fotos in headfi... like a boxer with skinny arms holding up his gloves in triumph !!!


----------



## bonesnv

lorspeaker said:


> one of those AMAZING fotos in headfi... like a boxer with skinny arms holding up his gloves in triumph !!!


 
  
 I call it the Mickey Mouse when I look at mine from a distance.


----------



## Stereolab42

You gotta love it when an eBay seller advertises the "high Gm ratings" of his rectifier tubes.


----------



## Badas

TonyNewMan,

Great catching up with you yesterday. Very impressive setup sir. 

Thanks for letting me use the Psvane WE274B. I think we can start to have some dialog on this tube.

I think it is a real class act. At first I thought I could hear that harshness you talked about. Then the more I listened I realised it goes extremely high. No distortion tho. It also has nice deep bass impact. One of its nicest attributes. 

Listening to a few albums I thought it was missing mid-range glory. It just didn't have that thickness to it.

So now I have decided to team it up with different power tubes. I have teamed it up with the RCA 6AS7G's which is known as a very mellow inflated mid range tube. Wow there is some magic going on here now.
I'm certainly not hearing harshness. The RCA power tubes have taken some high end treble out for sure, however the mid-range is deep and growls then the bass slams. Real special combo.

I listen dark so others may disagree. 

On another note. Beautiful construction. Very nice and tidy. Very straight and heavy. They have used some glass on this tube. Altho the same size as the Fivre rectifier I have taken out it is twice the weight. 

Put me in the impressed camp. Nice to know good new tubes are around.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Put me in the impressed camp. Nice to know good new tubes are around.


 
  
 It is by far the best new production rectifier I have tried. The Sophia Princess and EML mesh don't come close to it.
  
 It gets some stiff competition from NOS - $200 buys a lot of NOS rectifier goodness.


----------



## roskodan

just got a matched pair of 1967 NOS CV593 GZ32 Mullard Blackburn UK brown base, WOW those are game changers at that price, highly recommended!


----------



## Badas

Tony,
  
 I have been having fun with your Psvane 274B replica. I have been rolling other tubes to compliment it.
 I rolled the power tubes to pump up the mid-range. Which it did however it went too dark (Really something for me to say too dark).
 I came up with the plan to roll in brighter drivers. To my surprise my most hated drivers that I own the Sylvania 6SN7GTB was just the ticket.
  
 I'm now getting the best sound I have heard from My WA22 with my most hated drive tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Silky highs with no distortion, Absolutely warm pumped mid range and absolutely slamming bass. The bass is so good I have been hearing real bass pressure buildup in my Audeze. Never really heard that before. The soundstage is the largest yet as well. I couldn't actually wish for more.
  
 This is one hell of an amazing Rectifier. Thanks for letting me experiment.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony,
> 
> I have been having fun with your Psvane 274B replica. I have been rolling other tubes to compliment it.
> I rolled the power tubes to pump up the mid-range. Which it did however it went too dark (Really something for me to say too dark).
> ...


 
  
 Glad you like it. Only downsides are the cost ($200) and horrendous burn in process. This thing sounds worse than a cow farting in a warm shed for the first 200 hours (if you know what I mean). Only after 250 hours does it not make you want to harm yourself. 250+ it becomes something rather special - the only new production rectifier I have tried that can do that.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Glad you like it. Only downsides are the cost ($200) and horrendous burn in process. This thing sounds worse than a cow farting in a warm shed for the first 200 hours (if you know what I mean). Only after 250 hours does it not make you want to harm yourself. 250+ it becomes something rather special - the only new production rectifier I have tried that can do that.




250+ hours does not sound fun. Excus the pun. Have you run this tube that long?

Sounding spectacular now. Listening right now.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> 250+ hours does not sound fun. Excus the pun. Have you run this tube that long?
> 
> Sounding spectacular now. Listening right now.


 
  
 Sure did. The tube I lent you is the one I used to write up the review on the WA6 with. It has_ at least_ 250 hours on it before I passed it on.
  
 The Psvane replicas might even need 300+ hours to fully stabilize, so it might improve a little more while you have it.
  
 The WE274B replicas have inspired me to put the Psvane WE300B replicas back into my WA5 for another round of burn in.


----------



## isquirrel

Received a stack of tubes from my friend Matt while he is off on his holidays.
  
 Tried the Sophia Princess Mesh plates 274B's and was highly concerned as one of the filaments was glowing way to brightly so rolled in a Psvane WE 274B replica, liking it very much also. Interested in your comments Tony that they need 300+ hours on them to stabilise. They only have 30 hours or so on them. What changes did you notice during the burn in phase?
  
 It has a nice fleshed out quality, agree with the comments on the construction, great glass. Have another Mullard metal base 1956 Holland GZ34 on its way to do some more rolling in the rectifier spot.


----------



## isquirrel

Lol,
  
 I just laid nearly all of the 6SN7's, 274B's and 300B's out in a row. Now for some rolling.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ... so rolled in a Psvane WE 274B replica, liking it very much also. Interested in your comments Tony that they need 300+ hours on them to stabilise. They only have 30 hours or so on them. What changes did you notice during the burn in phase?


 
  
 I have review earlier on in the thread for the Psvane 1:1 WE274B replica - my detailed comments are in there.
  
 In a nutshell, if it only has 30 hours on it you should see huge improvement in the sound for the next 200+ hours. These are classy rectifiers that, I think, outclass any new production rectifier out there and compete with many of the best NOS.
  
 I rate them *much *better than the EML mesh and Princess Sophia, and a step above the GZ32 (which is a very good tube).
  
 Downsides are the cost ($200) and the long burn in (250+ hours).


----------



## isquirrel

Thanks Tony,
  
 I am finding that I prefer the RCA 1940 grey glass 6SN&'s so far, I have only singles of the RCA red base and Tung Sol RPBG so I am waiting for those to arrive from the same guy so they will be matched up. The Psvane's CV181's sound a little dry, they perform well but they sound a little soulless. I guess they need plenty of hours on them as well.
  
 As far as the 300B's are concerned have you had a chance to compare the Royal Sophia Princess to the KR 300 Balloons?


----------



## BlakeT

isquirrel said:


> Thanks Tony,
> 
> I am finding that I prefer the RCA 1940 grey glass 6SN&'s so far,


 
  
 I agree, RCA grey glass are probably my favorite 6SN7.
  
 Sorry for the off-topic post.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ...The Psvane's CV181's sound a little dry, they perform well but they sound a little soulless. I guess they need plenty of hours on them as well.
> 
> As far as the 300B's are concerned have you had a chance to compare the Royal Sophia Princess to the KR 300 Balloons?


 
 On point one above - totally agree. I find the Psvane CV-181 T2 extremely detailed, extended and balanced but lacking warmth/musicality. I am doing an extended burn in on a test pair right now (300+ hours) to see if that helps. Jury is still out for me on this - I will know more in a few weeks. They do pair well with warm rectifier + 300B combination in the WA5, I think.
  
 On point two above - I have never heard the KR 300Bs, so cannot comment. The only high end 300Bs I have are the SERPs, Psvane replicas and EATs (as per my sig). I like all 3 for difference reasons. Can anyone have too many nice 300Bs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If I ever purchase another set of high end 300Bs it would probably a set of EML 300B mesh - I keep hearing very good things about those tubes. Right now my wallet is squealing at the thought of more 300Bs. These tubes cost the same as the equivalent quality 845 - a 20W+ monster tube - something is badly off in the marketplace regarding 300B pricing.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> 'If I ever purchase another set of high end 300Bs it would probably a set of EML 300B mesh - I keep hearing very good things about those tubes. Right now my wallet is squealing at the thought of more 300Bs. These tubes cost the same as the equivalent quality 845 - a 20W+ monster tube - something is badly off in the marketplace regarding 300B pricing.'


 
  
 Agreed, I have been speaking to my tube supplier in the US, he can get 1930 WE's but for a new pair there around the $4-6K mark. I am looking at slightly used. There still $1-2K.
  
 I am liking the KR's, they sound more detailed with a nice balanced harmonic through the frequency range. If prior experience with the TS on the Studio Six is anything to go by the TS will be hard to beat. They take forever to burn in though. 
  
 Seems like that's the story of my life ATM, I am in tube burn in world. One day I think wow these sound great and then they go through a phase of sounding horrible


----------



## Stereolab42

blaket said:


> I agree, RCA grey glass are probably my favorite 6SN7.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic post.


 
  
 +2 on the RCA VT-231s. Got some recently, phenomenal but tough to find. I ordered a quad of RCA VT-99 6F8Gs at much cheaper prices and hope they will sound the same, just waiting for the adapters.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> +2 on the RCA VT-231s. Got some recently, phenomenal but tough to find. I ordered a quad of RCA VT-99 6F8Gs at much cheaper prices and hope they will sound the same, just waiting for the adapters.


 
  
 Mine as well. I use the RCA 6SN7 Greyglass. Only got two pairs looking for more.
  
 Let us know about the RCA 6F8G's. That is also my project as well, however I have bunked it for next year.


----------



## Badas

Tony,
  
 Your Psvane 274B is a little to nice. I'm liking it a little to much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think I have to roll it out and see if I can a similar sound from my Rectifiers (Mullard, Fivre, Mazda, GE).
  
 What do you think of the Fivre?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony,
> 
> Your Psvane 274B is a little to nice. I'm liking it a little to much.
> 
> ...


 
 It's a lot of rectifier for the price. Half the price of the GZ32 (approx) and almost equal in performance. I'm liking it.
  
 The Psvane WE274B replica is still the best rectifier I have used.


----------



## Badas

> The Psvane WE274B replica is still the best rectifier I have used.


 
  
 Agreed.


----------



## MIKELAP

I see the PSVANE WE274B at a little over $116.00 and others at over $229.00 are they the same tube, first picture is $116.00 and last one is $198.00 which one is it exactly. Thanks


----------



## BlakeT

Just installed my Brimar U52.  Letting it cook for a while


----------



## Badas

The one we have been using / testing is the latter one.

I rolled it out last night. Instantly missed it. Decided to roll it back in after my listening session and enjoy it while I can.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> The one we have been using / testing is the latter one.


 
  
 Correct - the more expensive one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It retails for around $200-$220 when sourced direct from China. This is the "Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica" - just to add to the confusion Shuguang also make a WE274B replica and there are other Psvane 274B tube types from the HiFi and Treasure series - all are cheaper tubes than the 1:1 replica and not the same beast.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

1:1 replica, hmm..


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> 1:1 replica, hmm..


 
  
 I'm skeptical about that too, but all I really care about is the sound to price ratio - at it sounds very, very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So the $200 price seems reasonable to me - certainly far better value than the Sophia Princess or EML mesh 274B.


----------



## Stereolab42

mikelap said:


> I see the PSVANE WE274B at a little over $116.00 and others at over $229.00 are they the same tube, first picture is $116.00 and last one is $198.00 which one is it exactly. Thanks


 
  
 Yeah, this is fishy... there about about a dozen auctions for this, half are around $100, half around $200, all allegedly selling the same tube.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, this is fishy... there about about a dozen auctions for this, half are around $100, half around $200, all allegedly selling the same tube.


 
  
 Not the same tube at all. I have never seen the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica for less than $200.
  
 The other 274B Psvanes are either from the HiFi series (black box, clear tube - around $100) or the Treasure series (grey box, grey tube - around $150). Different animals to the replica (blue/purple box, clear tube - around $200).
  
 The full range of Psvane and Shuguang tubes can be seen here:
  
http://www.tube-sale.com/


----------



## Badas

It is the most dynamic rectifier I have heard. I will write a full review when I hand it back.
  
 It seems to have the most expansive soundfield. I have picked up on sounds not heard before.
  
 It does everything well. Deep bass, high undistorted treble. The only thing I can fault and it's extremely minor is the mid is not magical. Not like the Mullard GZ32. For everything else it runs circles around the Mullard.
  
 I was able to produce Mid-range magic with the change of power tubes. The RCA 6AS7G's are known as a mid-range lush tube. The combination was just stunning and I don't believe better is achievable.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> It is the most dynamic rectifier I have heard. I will write a full review when I hand it back.
> 
> It seems to have the most expansive soundfield. I have picked up on sounds not heard before.
> 
> It does everything well. Deep bass, high undistorted treble. The only thing I can fault and it's extremely minor is the mid is not magical. Not like the Mullard GZ32. For everything else it runs circles around the Mullard.


 
 +1 on that, I am finding the Psvanes 274B's to be excellent, they now have 60 hours on them and are changing for the better. Particularly enjoying the expansive soundstage and rock solid bottom end. Typical burn in though never know what they are going to sound like next listening session.
  
 Excellent rectifiers. I will be comparing them to Mullard metal base GZ34's shortly.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> +1 on that, I am finding the Psvanes 274B's to be excellent...


 
  
 Can I ask which flavour of Psvane 274B you are using - the HiFi / Treasure / Replica?
  
 I have only tried the replica - no clue on the HiFi or Treasure tubes.


----------



## isquirrel

Classic Replica


----------



## isquirrel

Looking at the Takatsuki Electric TA-274B's rectifiers, I understand they are supposed to be top notch, but pricey.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Classic Replica


 
  
 Is it a Shuguang? They make a 'classic replica' for around $100. Different tube to the Psvane 1:1 WE274B replica.
  
 The reason I ask is that the Psvane replicas sounded terrible to me for the first 200 or so hours of burn in. If you are getting a nice sound after 60 hours it makes me wonder what I was smoking when I was listening to the Psvanes


----------



## isquirrel

No its definatly the Psvane 274B replica, makes me wonder what they will sound like in 120 hours time, they are on 24/7 burn in so I am excited about your comments about how good they become.
  
 Having said that Tony I am using my new amps the 234's and to be honest they are making everything I listen to a revelation.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Having said that Tony I am using my new amps the 234's and to be honest they are making everything I listen to a revelation.


 
  
 That would explain a lot - the mighty 234 - king of Woo amps


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> That would explain a lot - the mighty 234 - king of Woo amps


 

 Still should hear some major changes over the next 100 or so hours. It was recommended to me to use the High Plate Z setting but I found that was too hot for me, so I am using the cathode output Hi-Z, I have a chart of the different settings.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Is it a Shuguang? They make a 'classic replica' for around $100. Different tube to the Psvane 1:1 WE274B replica.
> 
> The reason I ask is that the Psvane replicas sounded terrible to me for the first 200 or so hours of burn in. If you are getting a nice sound after 60 hours it makes me wonder what I was smoking when I was listening to the Psvanes


 

 Tony, I now understand what you mean about the Psvanes, night before last I was up until all hours couldn't tear myself away system sounded so good, now fast forward to last night and again this morning so around the 100 hour mark and they sound thin and bright, horrible actually. The cavernous bass has disappeared. 
  
 Hmm wondering if its the plates that need the time?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Tony, I now understand what you mean about the Psvanes, night before last I was up until all hours couldn't tear myself away system sounded so good, now fast forward to last night and again this morning so around the 100 hour mark and they sound thin and bright, horrible actually. The cavernous bass has disappeared.
> 
> Hmm wondering if its the plates that need the time?


 
  
 I'm guessing yes. The coatings on the plates might have something to do with it - I really can't say for sure.
  
 What I do know is that these tubes need a lot of burn to stabilize into something decent - and it takes a long, long time.
  
 To me the wait was worth it - I really like these tubes a lot - but the burn in process is a slow and painful.


----------



## Badas

^

I don't know if this is relevant. I swear my Woo amp itself went through a major change after the first month as well. I'm fairly sure it wasn't placebo. It might have been capacitors breaking in or something. 

Mind you your capacitors will be totally different to mine and you are running up some big hours fast. However just keep in mind the amp could change as well.


----------



## Stereolab42

Finally found a 1930s Woo-compatible rectifier, an RCA 5V4 I picked up on eBay for peanuts! (Date code X2 is 1939 March/April.) Just a solo so I can only use it in my WA6-SE but it tests and sounds very good. I'm now on the hunt for more of these, and also 1930s 6F8Gs for my WA5. (6SN7s didn't appear until 1941.) And if I win the lottery, NOS 1938/39 300Bs. I have an old-tube fetish.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stereolab42 said:


> Finally found a 1930s Woo-compatible rectifier, an RCA 5V4 I picked up on eBay for peanuts! (Date code X2 is 1939 March/April.) Just a solo so I can only use it in my WA6-SE but it tests and sounds very good. I'm now on the hunt for more of these, and also 1930s 6F8Gs for my WA5. (6SN7s didn't appear until 1941.) And if I win the lottery, NOS 1938/39 300Bs. I have an old-tube fetish.


 
  
 nice!


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> ... NOS 1938/39 300Bs...


 
  
 Good luck with the search - but 38/39 NOS WE300B is a BIG ask. Would you consider compromising on used rather than NOS? That might help with availability and price.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Good luck with the search - but 38/39 NOS WE300B is a BIG ask. Would you consider compromising on used rather than NOS? That might help with availability and price.


 
  
 I've come to start using NOS as "tests-new old-stock" instead of "unused old-stock". NOS NIB means the latter. I can thank eBay for this, I guess. Anyways, it's equally unlikely I could afford "tests-new old-stock" 38/39 300Bs either, hence the "if I win the lottery".


----------



## bonesnv

Finally got the one rectifier I have been hunting for to complete the collection, thanks to jolly ol' England.


----------



## Badas

^

Fabulous.


----------



## isquirrel

bonesnv said:


> Finally got the one rectifier I have been hunting for to complete the collection, thanks to jolly ol' England.


 

 Beautiful, how does it sound?


----------



## bonesnv

Need to listen more first, just got it yesterday.


----------



## Lorspeaker

ermmm.....how much $ ??


----------



## San Raal

Curses to all of you in this thread!!
  
 Because ... I have (impulse) purchased pairs of
  
 GEC U52
 WE 422
 Psvane 274B 1:1 replica
  
 My wallet is now creaking under the strain!!!!
  
 I still refuse to purchase the Takatsuki 274B still way to expensive for a pair.
  
 Thanks to Dubstep Girl and others for your impressions on rectifiers - I knew that I could probably do better than my trusty plastic based Mullard 5AR4 and my 596 isnt to my taste.


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> Curses to all of you in this thread!!
> 
> Because ... I have (impulse) purchased pairs of
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please share your impressions of the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica vs the WE422A once you have them (and have suffered through the 250+ hour burn in for the Psvanes).
  
 I think the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica rectifier is a stunningly good tube - but the best I have to compare it to is the Mullard GZ32 - and I think there is a big gap between those two tubes. I would be very interested in how it compares with the 'ultimate' NOS tube WE422A.
  
 For those interested in the Psvane rectifier compared to the GZ32, the only area where the GZ32 is superior is in the mid range warmth (which some might consider overdone in the GZ32 - I like it). In every other category that I can think of the Psvane is superior. In some areas - like bass and treble extension - the gap is large. I think these rectifier tubes from Psvane are worth every bit of the $200+ price tag. Just brace yourself for a painful initial 250+ hours of burn in before they sound their best.


----------



## jaywillin

tonynewman said:


> Please share your impressions of the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica vs the WE422A once you have them (and have suffered through the 250+ hour burn in for the Psvanes).
> 
> I think the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica rectifier is a stunningly good tube - but the best I have to compare it to is the Mullard GZ32 - and I think there is a big gap between those two tubes. I would be very interested in how it compares with the 'ultimate' NOS tube WE422A.
> 
> For those interested in the Psvane rectifier compared to the GZ32, the only area where the GZ32 is superior is in the mid range warmth (which some might consider overdone in the GZ32 - I like it). In every other category that I can think of the Psvane is superior. In some areas - like bass and treble extension - the gap is large. I think these rectifier tubes from Psvane are worth every bit of the $200+ price tag. Just brace yourself for a painful initial 250+ hours of burn in before they sound their best.


 
 thanks !
 i'd been curious about the psvane tubes, i'm new to having a rectifier tube involved , so i'm having to do a lot or reading, researching


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Please share your impressions of the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica vs the WE422A once you have them (and have suffered through the 250+ hour burn in for the Psvanes).
> 
> I think the Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica rectifier is a stunningly good tube - but the best I have to compare it to is the Mullard GZ32 - and I think there is a big gap between those two tubes. I would be very interested in how it compares with the 'ultimate' NOS tube WE422A.
> 
> *For those interested in the Psvane rectifier compared to the GZ32, the only area where the GZ32 is superior is in the mid range warmth (which some might consider overdone in the GZ32 - I like it). In every other category that I can think of the Psvane is superior. In some areas - like bass and treble extension - the gap is large. I think these rectifier tubes from Psvane are worth every bit of the $200+ price tag.* Just brace yourself for a painful initial 250+ hours of burn in before they sound their best.


 
  
 Exactly what I found as well. Stunning tube. As close to perfection as I have heard. You don't miss the mid-range compared to the Mullard GZ32 as everything else is better.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Exactly what I found as well. Stunning tube. As close to perfection as I have heard. You don't miss the mid-range compared to the Mullard GZ32 as everything else is better.


 
  
 To my ears the mid-range on the Psvane is very nice also - I would not call it a negative in any way - but the GZ32 is definitely sweeter in the mids. If you like a very warm and lush sounding mid range (and I adore that sound) the GZ32 will do it better than the Psvane - but that's about the *only *thing it will do better.
  
 This is high praise for the Psvane tube - the Mullard GZ32 is a very good rectifier. Certainly it is a much superior tube to the Sophia Princess and EML mesh 274B that I own.
  
 This is what makes me so curious about how the Psvane will stack upa gainst the WE422A. The GZ32 is rated as a very good NOS tube in the rectifier comparison at the start of this thread, but not in the same league as the very best NOS (WE422A etc). I am wondering if the Psvane, which is superior to the GZ32 in almost every way, can reach those dizzy heights. I hope so, as we would then have a relatively affordable new production rectifier option that can compete with the best of the NOS.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tonynewman said:


> To my ears the mid-range on the Psvane is very nice also - I would not call it a negative in any way - but the GZ32 is definitely sweeter in the mids. If you like a very warm and lush sounding mid range (and I adore that sound) the GZ32 will do it better than the Psvane - but that's about the *only *thing it will do better.
> 
> This is high praise for the Psvane tube - the Mullard GZ32 is a very good rectifier. Certainly it is a much superior tube to the Sophia Princess and EML mesh 274B that I own.
> 
> This is what makes me so curious about how the Psvane will stack upa gainst the WE422A. The GZ32 is rated as a very good NOS tube in the rectifier comparison at the start of this thread, but not in the same league as the very best NOS (WE422A etc). I am wondering if the Psvane, which is superior to the GZ32 in almost every way, can reach those dizzy heights. I hope so, as we would then have a relatively affordable new production rectifier option that can compete with the best of the NOS.


 
  
 i would love to try this tube out on the WA5 someday, if its as good as impressions say it is, it might compete with alot of NOS tubes, but I also don't think it will reach WE422A or U52 levels, unless of course the Psvane is a really good replica of the one rectifier that will really be superior, the WE274B.


----------



## BlakeT

dubstep girl said:


> i would love to try this tube out on the WA5 someday, if its as good as impressions say it is, it might compete with alot of NOS tubes, but I also don't think it will reach WE422A or U52 levels, unless of course the Psvane is a really good replica of the one rectifier that will really be superior, the WE274B.


 
  
  
 Ok, one of you Psvane lovers needs to send your tube to Dubstep Girl for a demo.  Who will volunteer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That would help to provide some context to the Psvane reviews in this thread.


----------



## magiccabbage

blaket said:


> Ok, one of you Psvane lovers needs to send your tube to Dubstep Girl for a demo.  Who will volunteer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> This is what makes me so curious about how the Psvane will stack upa gainst the WE422A. The GZ32 is rated as a very good NOS tube in the rectifier comparison at the start of this thread, but not in the same league as the very best NOS (WE422A etc). I am wondering if the Psvane, which is superior to the GZ32 in almost every way, can reach those dizzy heights. I hope so, as we would then have a relatively affordable new production rectifier option that can compete with the best of the NOS.


 
  
 I'm going to get one of these next year. A bit short of $$ right now.
 However it was obvious how great this was.
  
 Thanks Tony.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> I'm going to get one of these next year. A bit short of $$ right now.
> However it was obvious how great this was.
> 
> Thanks Tony.


 
 That's good considering next year is 5 weeks away lol.


----------



## bonesnv

lorspeaker said:


> ermmm.....how much $ ??


 
  
 $202 + shipping.


----------



## bonesnv

Spending 250+ hours of my musical listening experience in agony waiting for a tube to "burn-in" sounds like horror to me, may as well jab myself with forks.  I mean, I hope it sounds good after the fact, and judging by the couple of comments some of you seem to enjoy them, so from your standpoint it was totally worth it and hopefully you continue to enjoy them.  
  
 I wouldn't mind trying one out but considering the ones on eBay are priced higher than I paid for one of my U52's, my U54 "fat bottle" and both of my GZ34 metal bases, doesn't make monetary sense, unless I am looking at totally the wrong tube (around $230+?).
  
 Definitely of the same sentiment that I would love to see a DG review on one either way and see how they truly compare to their NOS/NIB cousins.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> i would love to try this tube out on the WA5 someday, if its as good as impressions say it is, it might compete with alot of NOS tubes, but I also don't think it will reach WE422A or U52 levels, unless of course the Psvane is a really good replica of the one rectifier that will really be superior, the WE274B.


 
  
 If I still resided in the USA I would happily lend you the 2 Psvane replicas I currently have installed in my WA5 - but doing that from where I live now (NZ) is not an option.
  
 Personally, I don't expect the replica to 100% match the performance of the vintage originals (not even the new production WE300Bs using original materials and tooling could do that), but I am hoping that it comes close. How close it really is has me curious. So far there has been no feedback that I can find from someone that has tried both the Psvane replica and a vintage WE422A/WE274B.


----------



## BlakeT

The other issue is we don't really have sufficient feedback from enough long-term users (out in the real world) to establish how long these Psvane replicas will last.
  
 Contrast this with the NOS tubes, where we have a well-documented proven track record.
  
 If the Psvanes only have 50% of the usable life as compared to the real NOS counterpart (purely hypothetical, just throwing that out as an example), and they don't sound quite as good as the real thing, then the purchase price becomes less and less of a "good deal".


----------



## TonyNewman

blaket said:


> The other issue is we don't really have sufficient feedback from enough long-term users (out in the real world) to establish how long these Psvane replicas will last.
> 
> Contrast this with the NOS tubes, where we have a well-documented proven track record.
> 
> If the Psvanes only have 50% of the usable life as compared to the real NOS counterpart (purely hypothetical, just throwing that out as an example), and they don't sound quite as good as the real thing, then the purchase price because less and less of a "good deal".


 
  
 Totally agree. I made the point in my review of the replica that there is a risk around the reliability and durability of these tubes.
  
 Having said that, they appear rugged and well made, but that is not a substitute for a wide user base of experience with them.
  
 NOS WE422A and WE274Bs are not cheap (I'm not sure of the current market price, but I think it would be a few multiples of the price for the replica). The point is that these vintage tubes are only going to increase in rarity and price. Look at the current pricing for vintage NOS WE300B - crazy numbers.
  
 The Psvane replica is the best sounding rectifier I have used, and by a wide margin over the GZ32. It really is a very fine sounding tube.


----------



## Badas

Stop talking about it. I miss it already.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Stop talking about it. I miss it already.


 
  
 Only around $220 USD and all that rectification glory can be yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT - a follow up on the replicas. I have had a pair in my WA5 for over 200 hours now (and another in my WA6 with over 300 that was the basis of the earlier review).
  
 Enough for me to make some comments on how these tubes have changed the sound from my WA5. Everything is better with these rectifiers, but by far the biggest improvement is in the bass. Previously, I had struggled to get good quality bass from my WA5/HE6 (modded) combination. I was thinking that perhaps the 8W of the WA5 might not be enough to fully drive the HE6 low end, or perhaps it was a limitation of tube amps in general (or perhaps even the WA5 in particular). I was wrong on all counts. The problem was in my rectification - which the replicas have fixed.
  
 I have been doing some more A/B testing between my WA5/HE6 and Taurus Mk2/LCD-X. Previously, the Taurus Mk2/LCD-X combo was the clear winner in the bass area. Not anymore. The Taurus Mk2/LCD-X still has *more *bass, but the WA5/HE6 now has _*better *_bass. More control and detail in the low end, as well as now also having that bass thump that you can really feel.
  
 I am starting to think that I am getting a bigger jump in SQ from the rectifier upgrade than I got from my 300B upgrades.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> ... unless of course the Psvane is a really good replica of the one rectifier that will really be superior, the WE274B.


 
  
 This is what I am hoping, but have no way to confirm it as I have never heard a vintage WE274B or WE422A. Certainly that is what the Psvane folks are claiming to have produced.
  
 All I can say is that this tube sounds stunning in both my WA6 and WA5 - it transforms both of these amps and raises them to a new level of SQ, particularly in the bass, but in just about every other category also. The jump from the GZ32 to the replica is not subtle to my ears - it is a big leap.
  
 I am so looking forward to hearing from someone that has tried the replica as well as the real thing


----------



## San Raal

I would be interested in hearing omeone review the Takatsuki 274b that tube is crazy expensive but given the performance of their brand 300b it must be something special.
  
 Got the GEC U52 today so will give that a roll tonight, should be something special. Have high expectations!


----------



## isquirrel

Can confirm that the Psvane 274B really comes alive when given sufficient burn in, the pair I am using now have over 200 hours & they have improved markedly.

The bass performance is best I've heard.

I will have the Takatsuki's here shortly so will do a comparison with the Psvanes and the Mullard GZ34 metal bases.


----------



## San Raal

Cannot wait to hear some impression on the Takatsuki, if they are indeed the holy grail then Ill have to go through and sell some tubes Ive "laid down" in recent years.


----------



## isquirrel

san raal said:


> Cannot wait to hear some impression on the Takatsuki, if they are indeed the holy grail then Ill have to go through and sell some tubes Ive "laid down" in recent years. :happy_face1:




I hope so too !, given that Takatsuki charge more for them than the 300B's I am thinking they must be pretty special. I find myself agreeing with Tony, the rectifiers seem to make a bigger difference than the 300B's. I have found the Sophia RP 300B's to be a better match than the KR's with the Psvanes. The KR's were a bit lean for my tastes.


----------



## San Raal

Yes the Takatsuki price disparity is unusual and Ive always beleived its marketing to certain integrated amplifier designs using one 274b and a pair of 300b. As a WA5 owner, the price of the full takatsuki complement rivals that of the loaded amp itself.
  
 I agree the rectifier makes a big sonic difference as well, perhaps its down to the resultant B+ output varying between different rectifiers and the circuit they're in, or maybe its pixie dust. 
  
 I do also think that the driver tube, in my amp the 6SN7 (or 12SN7) can make a big impact. I use PS1000 primarily so I stick to british made driver tubes, to tame the peakiness of those cans.


----------



## San Raal

Oops double post


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel, you gonna have the Tats 300Bs or just the 274Bs for review?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ... I have found the Sophia RP 300B's to be a better match than the KR's with the Psvanes...


 
  
 I haven't tried the SERPs with the Psvane 274Bs yet. I am burning in another set of the replicas from Psvane on my WA5 - this time the 300B variety. I hope these 300Bs turn out as good as the rectifiers - I will be a happy camper if they are (but that would be a discussion for another thread). The SERPs have the best bass extension I have ever heard on a 300B, so the combination with the replicas should deliver bass heaven - I must swap out the 300Bs soon and give that a try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Interesting that the design of the Takatsuki 274B appears almost identical to the original WE274B, right down to the number, size and position of the perforations on the back of each plate (5). This tube looks more like a replica than a new design, but that is no bad thing, given what a great job the Western Electric engineers did the first time. If they can take the performance of the original and improve on that, then it will be something special indeed.

  
 If only the pricing didn't make my sphincter twitch. How much for *rectifiers*...? I'm only used to being savagely raped by 300B pricing - getting the same treatment for rectifiers will take some getting used to


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> isquirrel, you gonna have the Tats 300Bs or just the 274Bs for review?




Both, should be here 3-4 weeks


----------



## San Raal

I have received the GEC U52, and after a helpful exchange with the seller have got them operational in my WA5.
  
 Initial impression of these tubes is positive, more euphoric than the plastic Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 whilst remaining dynamic.


----------



## magiccabbage

san raal said:


> I have received the GEC U52, and after a helpful exchange with the seller have got them operational in my WA5.
> 
> Initial impression of these tubes is positive, more euphoric than the plastic Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 whilst remaining dynamic.


 
 Keep us posted


----------



## roskodan

hey guys, what rectifiers would you suggest for planars like audeze  and mrspkrs, i've the wa6-se, apart from the gz34?


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> hey guys, what rectifiers would you suggest for planars like audeze  and mrspkrs, i've the wa6-se, apart from the gz34?


 
  
 The Fivre 5R4GY/CV717 that we talked about a few weeks ago is really nice. I prefer it to the Mullard GZ32. It is more dynamic.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310473434591?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## roskodan

yup me too don't like the gz32 with already full sounding cans, using a Philips 5R4GYS (5R4GY) CV717 rectifier now, which is really nice http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-5R4GYS-5R4GY-rectifier-CV717-Dutch-army-tube-NOS-/191411966048?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c910ad060


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> yup me too don't like the gz32 with already full sounding cans, using a Philips 5R4GYS (5R4GY) CV717 rectifier now, which is really nice http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-5R4GYS-5R4GY-rectifier-CV717-Dutch-army-tube-NOS-/191411966048?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c910ad060


 

 Thanks. I will that one a go as well.


----------



## MIKELAP

How do you guys think the Siemens 5R4GYS would fair  with Senns HD800 and a WA6 do you think it would be to lean would i need something warmer,sounding   i recently got the Fivre 5R4GY nice tube .


----------



## roskodan

badas said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > yup me too don't like the gz32 with already full sounding cans, using a Philips 5R4GYS (5R4GY) CV717 rectifier now, which is really nice http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-5R4GYS-5R4GY-rectifier-CV717-Dutch-army-tube-NOS-/191411966048?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c910ad060
> ...


 

 btw, you looking for something more mellow than the gz32 or more sharp? the philips is kind of neutral with imo amazing clear (but not sharp like gz34) mids and highs, voices just pop out, and makes the stage quite wider/higher, but still retain the top depth layering, ofc ymmv since i'm on a maxed internals wa6-se with it's power/driver options


----------



## roskodan

mikelap said:


> How do you guys think the Siemens 5R4GYS would fair  with Senns HD800 and a WA6 do you think it would be to lean would i need something warmer,sounding   i recently got the Fivre 5R4GY nice tube .


 

 where does the fivre stand compared to mullard gz32 and gz34?


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> where does the fivre stand compared to mullard gz32 and gz34?


 

 I haven't got the GZ34.
  
 Compared to the GZ32 however the Fivre has more clean treble extension. A little less in the mid-range. Definetly more bass and seems a bit faster.


----------



## roskodan

interesting, then from mellow/slow to hot/fast i would guess like this gz32>fivre>philips>gz34metal (having heard all but the fivre in my wa6-se)


----------



## Badas

The Fivre seems like a GZ32. Still has that nice mid-range romantic sound. It isn't until you switch you notice more treble extension and bass slam.


----------



## roskodan

the philips, it really departs from the gz32, it's almost ss gz34 area but without the sharpness/hotness, probably less liquid, more dry


----------



## Badas

Actually speaking of Mullard GZ32. Has anyone else noticed that this is not a flash sounding tube for the first 30 minutes?
 I find it needs a good warmup to get that mellow magic. Can sound harsh when first started up.
 The Fivre sounds exactly as it should right from go.


----------



## Badas

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-U52-5U4G-VINTAGE-VALVES-/191423555617?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c91bba821
  
 What the heck are these? They look like RCA or Sylvania?


----------



## Angelbelow

I think I'm going to buy these rectifier tubes for starters as an upgrade to the stock rectifier tubes from woo. What do you guys think?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251720265904?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## roskodan

these usually go for 30 bucks shipped, for that money you can get two matched mullard cv593


----------



## MIKELAP

roskodan said:


> these usually go for 30 bucks shipped, for that money you can get two matched mullard cv593


 
 Thats about what i paid also $40.00 CA including shipping for 1 JAN Sylvania . i would like to know where you found 2 Mullard CV593 for $120.00 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

angelbelow said:


> I think I'm going to buy these rectifier tubes for starters as an upgrade to the stock rectifier tubes from woo. What do you guys think?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251720265904?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-RCA-5U4G-Radio-Vacuum-TUBES-Tested-audio-amplifier-5U4G-SAME-DATE-CODES-/371201460125?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item566d54c79d                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Found these right away you could get good deals sometimes


----------



## roskodan

mikelap said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > these usually go for 30 bucks shipped, for that money you can get two matched mullard cv593
> ...


 
  
 here in germany tube amps are popular, and so are the cv593 http://www.head-fi.org/t/742691/


----------



## MIKELAP

roskodan said:


> here in germany tube amps are popular, and so are the cv593 http://www.head-fi.org/t/742691/


 
 In my neck of the woods $120 is actually $170.00 lol


----------



## roskodan

btw i just sold the mullard gz34 metal base the other day, i bought it again, i was able to be without it only that much, planars just love it, and i love planars, i feel really bananas... but that's ok... cos this is spar... ahem... Head-fi!!!


----------



## isquirrel

Can confirm that the Psvane 274B replica has changed dramatically with time, over 300 hours on it now and buy it sounds great. Liquid, one and very musical with excellent bass. Was a challenge to stay with it during its burn in, channel in-balance, dry and course sound all have cleared up remarkably.
  
 Very happy to recommend this tube.
  
 I will be putting in a pair of Mullard metal base GZ34's this week for a comparison.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Can confirm that the Psvane 274B replica has changed dramatically with time, over 300 hours on it now and buy it sounds great. Liquid, one and very musical with excellent bass. Was a challenge to stay with it during its burn in, channel in-balance, dry and course sound all have cleared up remarkably.
> 
> Very happy to recommend this tube.
> 
> I will be putting in a pair of Mullard metal base GZ34's this week for a comparison.


 
  
 Glad you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Burn in time is horrific - but the end result is very, very good. I am hoping the replica can compete with the best (or near the best) NOS rectifiers. The best I can compare to is the Mullard GZ32, and the replica kills it.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Glad you like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's the bass that kills the Mullard. The Mullard is seriously lacking in it.
 I know the Fivre is nowhere near the Psvanve 274B that you lent to me however I'm enjoying that extra bass over the Mullard.
  
 I have taken that Fivre you put 50 hours on and added another 20 hours. I'm noticing some harshness disappearing. Turning into a very nice tube.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Glad you like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can someone post a pic of a site where I can buy this tube? Will it work in the wa5 or will i need an adapter? the ps vane 274b


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> Can someone post a pic of a site where I can buy this tube? Will it work in the wa5 or will i need an adapter? the ps vane 274b


 
  
 The base is standard octal - plugs right into my WA5 and WA6.
  
 I have used both of the vendors linked below - both delivered tubes no problems. Take your pick.
  
Link1
  
Link2


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> It's the bass that kills the Mullard. The Mullard is seriously lacking in it.
> I know the Fivre is nowhere near the Psvanve 274B that you lent to me however I'm enjoying that extra bass over the Mullard.
> 
> I have taken that Fivre you put 50 hours on and added another 20 hours. I'm noticing some harshness disappearing. Turning into a very nice tube.


 
  
 The Fivre is a bargain for the money - very good value. If it mellows out some more it will be an even better buy.
  
 To my ears the replica kills the GZ32 in every department except mid range sweetness. The bass presence is perhaps the most noticeable change, but the detail and extension (both bass and treble), soundstage and just overall 'feel' of the music takes a big leap forward for me with this rectifier. I'm not good at using the correct audiophile terms - saying "it's better" is vague, I know, but that is the correct sentiment. It is WAY better.
  
 I tried going back to the GZ32s in the WA5 and WA6, just to make sure I wasn't hearing things or having a crazy moment, and I just couldn't deal with all that I was missing with the GZ32. I couldn't rip them out fast enough and put the replicas back in.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The Fivre is a bargain for the money - very good value. If it mellows out some more it will be an even better buy.
> 
> To my ears the replica kills the GZ32 in every department except mid range sweetness. The bass presence is perhaps the most noticeable change, but the detail and extension (both bass and treble), soundstage and just overall 'feel' of the music takes a big leap forward for me with this rectifier. I'm not good at using the correct audiophile terms - saying "it's better" is vague, I know, but that is the correct sentiment. It is WAY better.
> 
> I tried going back to the GZ32s in the WA5 and WA6, just to make sure I wasn't hearing things or having a crazy moment, and I just couldn't deal with all that I was missing with the GZ32. I couldn't rip them out fast enough and put the replicas back in.


 

 Well. That is two of us. Possibly 3 with *isquirrel *as well.
  
 Yip Bass is the most obvious. However this tube made me enjoy treble again. It produces it so nicely. Now you have taken it back I miss it so dearly. Best way to describe this tube in my vocabulary is sweet and dynamic.


----------



## San Raal

Judging by the SMS I have got from my wife my replica's have arrived - now waiting for me to plug them in at home tonight heh heh 
  
 Unfortunatley the GEC U52 have a problem with the heater pins, probably a socket incompatibility with the WA5 so I havent been able to listen any more, though I have plenty of time to return them for a pin fix as the 274b burn in.


----------



## TonyNewman

> ....I have plenty of time to return them for a pin fix as the 274b burn in.


 
  
 If you have an alternate listening source for the first 200 or so hours of burn in for the replicas you would be doing yourself a big favour. These things sound downright _nasty _right out of the box, and it takes a long time for that to go away, but when it does the result is rather good (in fact I would use the word 'stunning', but I have never heard a top tier NOS rectifier to compare it to).


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> If you have an alternate listening source for the first 200 or so hours of burn in for the replicas you would be doing yourself a big favour. These things sound downright _nasty _right out of the box, and it takes a long time for that to go away, but when it does the result is rather good (in fact I would use the word 'stunning', but I have never heard a top tier NOS rectifier to compare it to).


 
 Which is your fav headphone pairing for the WA5? LCDX HE6 or HD800?


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> Which is your fav headphone pairing for the WA5? LCDX HE6 or HD800?


 
  
 Modded HE6, everytime.
  
 HD800 is very good, and is unmodded right now. I will mod the HD800 soon and see how that goes with the WA5 - I'm hoping for a great result based on the feedback from others.
  
 I find the LCD-X pairs much better with my SS Taurus than the WA5. It sounds good from the WA5, but I think better from the Taurus. This is very much an individual taste thing - I have heard from folks that find just the opposite with the Audeze range. So YMMV applies


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Modded HE6, everytime.
> 
> HD800 is very good, and is unmodded right now. I will mod the HD800 soon and see how that goes with the WA5 - I'm hoping for a great result based on the feedback from others.
> 
> I find the LCD-X pairs much better with my SS Taurus than the WA5. It sounds good from the WA5, but I think better from the Taurus. This is very much an individual taste thing - I have heard from folks that find just the opposite with the Audeze range. So YMMV applies


 
 What is you fav tube type for HD800 and do you change tubes when you listen to the HE6?
  
 Thanks for replying


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> What is you fav tube type for HD800 and do you change tubes when you listen to the HE6?
> 
> Thanks for replying


 
  
 Happy to share 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm still burning in my 300B sets, so I don't roll tubes for specific headphones.
  
 Right now I am running:
 Psvane 1:1 replica WE274B
 Psvane T2 CV-181s (6SN7s)
 Psvane 1:1 replica WE300B
  
 An all Psvane setup at the moment. Sounds stunning. I haven't given the EAT and SERP 300Bs enough playtime to say much about them yet.
  
 Are you running a WA5? If yes, do you have a favorite tube setup?


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Happy to share
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mine has not arrived yet. I want to have this combo for before Christmas - EML 300b -TS  6F8G - CV593.
 After I want to find a 300b with lots of bass impact, I'm thinking maybe a Sophia 300b.
 I won't roll too many 300b's after that and will concentrate on 5u4g and 6sn7.
 I want to get the GEC U52 - metal Mullard and eventually WE422a
  
 You should spoil me with some pics of your WA5 with the Psvane tubes. I don't think I have ever seen a WA5 with all Psvanes!!


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> You should spoil me with some pics of your WA5 with the Psvane tubes. I don't think I have ever seen a WA5 with all Psvanes!!


 
  
 Happy to shoot some pics this evening and post them. (disclaimer - I absolutely suck with a camera).
  
 EDIT - your tube selection looks excellent. I have not tried the EML 300B, but if I do go for another 300B set it will probably be the EML 300B mesh. Of the 300Bs I have tried, the SERPs (not the standard SEPs) have the best bass reproduction I have heard so far. One thing I have found is that the rectifier change to the Psvane 1:1 WE274B replica did a lot more for the bass in my WA5 and WA6 than anything else I have changed. These are very, very good rectifier tubes for bass (amongst many other things they do very well).


----------



## San Raal

MC - If your looking for bass impact, the rectifier will go a long way to meet the requirement. The 596 has bass in spades, if you like a more "hifi" presentation.
  
 As for the Psvane 274b - they are in, my they are agonizingly bright but there is something there that hints that these will mature into something special, almost like a effortless sound, note decay and musicality, the bass is somewhat forward in the mix with great impact.
  
 Its like my head is being drilled out right now. But I'm told that 250h is the sweet spot. 
  
 That said, I'm still getting used to my new SME IV on my Orbe table so some of what I'm hearing maybe that tonearm doing its magic.
  
 Did another continuity check on the GEC U52 heater pins, they should work when I plug them in again. Puzzling.


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> As for the Psvane 274b - they are in, my they are agonizingly bright but there is something there that hints that these will mature into something special, almost like a effortless sound, note decay and musicality, the bass is somewhat forward in the mix with great impact.


 
  
 Wow - I'm impressed you can hear some goodness from these right out of the box. Mine sounded nothing but horrid for the first 200ish hours, then transformed into something really special for the next 100 or so.
  
 Really looking forward to hearing your impressions of this tube after some more burn in - I'm dying to know if they can play with the NOS "Big Boys" - 596, U52, GZ34 metal base, WE422A ... etc. I hope so - it would be great to have a new production alternate to the increasingly hard to find and expensive top tier NOS rectifiers.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Wow - I'm impressed you can hear some goodness from these right out of the box. Mine sounded nothing but horrid for the first 200ish hours, then transformed into something really special for the next 100 or so.
> 
> Really looking forward to hearing your impressions of this tube after some more burn in - I'm dying to know if they can play with the NOS "Big Boys" - 596, U52, GZ34 metal base, WE422A ... etc. I hope so - it would be great to have a new production alternate to the increasingly hard to find and expensive top tier NOS rectifiers.


 

 Yeah. I'm waiting for that result as well. If they do compete my plan is to buy 2 or 3 Psvanes 274B's next year.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yeah. I'm waiting for that result as well. If they do compete my plan is to buy 2 or 3 Psvanes 274B's next year.


 
  
 And the same amount of cashola for 3 of these puppies would buy you approx *one *of the top tier NOS tubes. Pricing on these things is heading down the same nutter path as the WE300Bs, which why I am so keen for there to be a new production alternative that at least gets close in performance.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> You should spoil me with some pics of your WA5 with the Psvane tubes. I don't think I have ever seen a WA5 with all Psvanes!!


 
  
 Some WA5 porn, as requested. Apologies again for the crappy camera work - my photography skills rate somewhere between 'excremental' and 'zero' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 SERPs doing the business in the 300B slots.

  
 Another shot of the SERPs - socket savers are an absolute necessity for those monsters to fit with the T2 CV-181s.

  
 Psvane replicas. Socket savers also required, but more elbow room here.

  
 Shot of the replica rectifiers doing their thing with the replica 300Bs.

  
 With the EAT 300Bs. These are the only 300Bs I have that can fit with the T2s without using socket savers.
 The glass envelope for these is identical to the EML 274B, to give an idea of sizing.

  
 One last bit of PSvane tube goodness - this is my big rig amp - Triode Corp TRV-845SE.
 T2s, WE275s and WE845s.


----------



## magiccabbage

Sweet shots - thanks!


----------



## San Raal

Looking Good 
  
 246 hours to go here! Though the Psvanes were the least of my worries last night as my new ipad Air 2 will not connect to my PC so didnt have time to do any more head drilling, just left them burning away


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> Looking Good
> 
> 246 hours to go here! Though the Psvanes were the least of my worries last night as my new ipad Air 2 will not connect to my PC so didnt have time to do any more head drilling, just left them burning away


 
  
 If you can avoid listening to them for the first 200 hours you will be doing your ears (and sanity) a big favour 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After 200 hours things start to improve markedly - heading into rectifier nirvana around 250-300 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was lucky to have the WA6 and Taurus to use while burning in on the WA5 (and vice versa with the WA6) I think only this stopped me smashing the Psvanes with a hammer


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Great pics Tony. Amazing gear.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Great pics Tony. Amazing gear.


 
  
 The WA5 with the right tubes is an amazing piece of kit. The Psvane rectifiers take it to the next level for me - and let it have some BASS.
  
 I've started the serious burn in of the SERPs - previously I have only popped them in for a few quick listens - now I need to put 200+ hours on them and see how they turn out. Anyway, the point is that the SERPs have the best bass extension of any tube I have heard, even without a burn in - tight, controlled and deep bass. Combined with the Psvane rectifiers it is amazing. The SERPs are still all over the shop elsewhere, as they have less than 20 hours on them, but that bass. Damn!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> The WA5 with the right tubes is an amazing piece of kit. The Psvane rectifiers take it to the next level for me - and let it have some BASS.
> 
> I've started the serious burn in of the SERPs - previously I have only popped them in for a few quick listens - now I need to put 200+ hours on them and see how they turn out. Anyway, the point is that the SERPs have the best bass extension of any tube I have heard, even without a burn in - tight, controlled and deep bass. Combined with the Psvane rectifiers it is amazing. The SERPs are still all over the shop elsewhere, as they have less than 20 hours on them, but that bass. Damn!!!


 
 so you are using Sophia electric royal princess + psvane 274b? What drivers? 
  
 Can you post up some shots of this combo please?


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> so you are using Sophia electric royal princess + psvane 274b? What drivers?
> 
> Can you post up some shots of this combo please?


 
  
 Already done - refer to pics from earlier in the thread - the SERPs are in there. Look for the shots of the big huge person 300Bs - that's the SERPs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Drivers are the same - Psvane T2s (CV-181 / 6SN7).
  
 Eventually I will post some impressions of the 300Bs (SERPs vs Psvane Replica 300Bs vs EATs), but not in this thread, of course.


----------



## Audioclyde

Tony, when you post your comparison of the 300B's, please give us a heads up in this thread--I don't want to miss your assessment. I'm running the SERP's in my Manley preamp, but have the Psvane replica 2A3's in my amp and really like them. I'm anxious to read how the SERP vs Psvane replica turns out. I'd love to try a pair of Takasuki (think I spelled that right), but the cost has made me wait. 

Sorry, back to the great discussion of the rectifiers!

Thanks,

Randy


----------



## isquirrel

Tony,
  
 I am running Mullard metal base GZ34's and comparing them to the Psvanes 274B's. These are initial findings, however I wanted to cross check with you on yours. I am finding that the Mullards do not have the subtarrean bottom end or the air of the Psvanes, but they do have a sweeter and more detailed sound, still very good bass.
  
 Your thoughts?
  
 Thanks


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Tony,
> 
> I am running Mullard metal base GZ34's and comparing them to the Psvanes 274B's. These are initial findings, however I wanted to cross check with you on yours. I am finding that the Mullards do not have the subtarrean bottom end or the air of the Psvanes, but they do have a sweeter and more detailed sound, still very good bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have never heard a metal base GZ34 (I wish I had) - the only Mullard I have heard is the GZ32 - a much lesser animal.
  
 Have your Psvanes had 200+ hours burn in (preferably 250+)? These tubes change for the better in a big way past 200/250 hours. I'd suggest reserving any judgements until a truckload of hours have been put on them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

these comments really make me wanna try a pair of the psvanes, i havent really rolled anything on my WA5. i have a feeling that they wont touch the we422a though, that tube is just too good.


----------



## TonyNewman

audioclyde said:


> ... but have the Psvane replica 2A3's in my amp and really like them...
> Randy


 
  
 Hi Randy, I was running the Psvane WR2A3s as the driver for my WE845s in the TRV-845SE - great tube - just swapped those out for the Psvane WE275. It's a sweeter, warmer sound. Difference is subtle, but noticeable. This helps offset the slight edginess in the T2 CV181s - really, really nice sound. If you are looking to sweeten your sound a touch I can highly recommend the WE275s.
  
 (Apologies for going off topic there).


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> these comments really make me wanna try a pair of the psvanes, i havent really rolled anything on my WA5. i have a feeling that they wont touch the we422a though, that tube is just too good.


 
  
 You're very probably right - I just hope they can get close to that lofty level. *How close* is the unanswered question I am dying to know the answer to.
  
 If they can get within touching distance, then they are an absolute bargain at around $220 USD a piece.
  
 What I do know is that they leave the Mullard GZ32 gasping in the dust - and the GZ32 is a good tube. They have also transformed my WA5 - it now has great bass. Prior to the replicas I had struggled to get decent bass out of my WA5 - comparing it to my Taurus + LCD-X combo made it obvious how lacking it was. Not anymore. The replicas have improved just about everything else as well, but the bass stands out immediately as a massive improvement.


----------



## isquirrel

Hmm, very hard to pick between them, different sound, tonally the Psvanes are darker so they trick me into thinking they have more bass but actually I think they are a little bloated, this carries through to everything else as it affects the whole performance, kind of like the difference between RCA’s & TS 6SN7’s. The Mullards are faster, immediate and refined. Psvanes sound a touch veiled in comparison but great visceral bass. Both are really good depends on your mood. The Psvanes have 300+ hours on them.
  
 The Mullards probably need a little more time to see if they get warmer tonally, they are already very sweet sounding.
  
 I think Dubstep Girl's description of the Mullard's is spot on.
  
 I have landed in a sweet spot with the TS 6SN7's SERP 300B's and the Mullard's or the Psvane's.
  
 Looking forward to trying the Takatsuki 274B's


----------



## San Raal

tonynewman said:


> The WA5 with the right tubes is an amazing piece of kit. The Psvane rectifiers take it to the next level for me - and let it have some BASS.


 
  
 I agree with this 101% If you look at reviews on the web of the WA5 it never seems the WA5 rises to the top, beaten by the ECBA for cans, or as a speaker amp laking in dynamics. But with the right tube compliment it really shines. The issue is, the tube compliment outprices the amplifier and for many the ability for an amplifier to function with common NOS or cheaper new production tubes is paramount to selling units.
  
 Crossing my fingers on the Psvanes, (242h to go)


----------



## San Raal

isquirrel said:


> Looking forward to trying the Takatsuki 274B's


 
 My wallet isnt looking forward to your test!


----------



## magiccabbage

So is it the PSvane 274b that gives it the extra bass or is it the whole tube combo? 
  
 Would the PSvane 274b still add bass with EML 300b?


----------



## San Raal

Take this with a pinch of salt as my Psvanes are still very raw. Bass is positive with these tubes, the only bass Ive heard thats better is the 596.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hmm, very hard to pick between them, different sound, tonally the Psvanes are darker so they trick me into thinking they have more bass but actually I think they are a little bloated, this carries through to everything else as it affects the whole performance, kind of like the difference between RCA’s & TS 6SN7’s. The Mullards are faster, immediate and refined. Psvanes sound a touch veiled in comparison but great visceral bass. Both are really good depends on your mood. The Psvanes have 300+ hours on them.
> 
> The Mullards probably need a little more time to see if they get warmer tonally, they are already very sweet sounding.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for posting a detailed comparison. I'll settle for the replicas being competitive with (or close to) the GZ34 metal base any day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That still puts them into top tier rectifier company, at a fraction of the cost, which is as much as I could hope for.
  
 EDIT - I just did some research on the pricing for Mullard/Phillips GZ34 metal base rectifiers on the web. Wow - around $500 per tube seems pretty common.


----------



## San Raal

At 24h burn in now and Im somewhat perplexed.
  
 Over the weekend I found myself listening to and enjoying these tubes on my humble PS1000. The tubes no longer sound harsh or grating and have taken on a very natural effortless sound, if I were to describe them as a comparison, they take some of the best parts of the 596 - great bass impact and add the liquidity and euphoric vocals of the Mullard plastic base GZ34
  
 Not at all difficult to listen to. If they get better still over the next 200h then I#m in for a treat.
  
 Got the WE 422A too now, need to find some time to have a listen there too!


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> At 24h burn in now and Im somewhat perplexed.
> 
> Over the weekend I found myself listening to and enjoying these tubes on my humble PS1000. The tubes no longer sound harsh or grating and have taken on a very natural effortless sound, if I were to describe them as a comparison, they take some of the best parts of the 596 - great bass impact and add the liquidity and euphoric vocals of the Mullard plastic base GZ34
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is so weird. Mine were harsh and nasty for the first 200 hours solid - I nearly gave up on them as a bad gamble - yet others are finding nice things early on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Might be a difference in batches of tubes, or our gear, or our ears. I used my WA6 for the initial long break in - kept the volume quite low and it was a very gentle process - maybe that has something to do with my experience with them, perhaps? Not sure.
  
 Anyway, the important thing is how the tubes are performing for you - and that seems to be good so far. I'll be extremely keen to hear your impressions of the replica vs the WE422A when you have had a chance to break them both in. If the replica can get anywhere close to the king of rectifiers I would be thrilled


----------



## San Raal

tonynewman said:


> This is so weird. Mine were harsh and nasty for the first 200 hours solid - I nearly gave up on them as a bad gamble - yet others are finding nice things early on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad you didn't give up as they are a solid recommendation, thank-you! The WE422A is on the side waiting for a try, but the Psvane are keeping my toes taping for the time being.


----------



## Angelbelow

I haven't received my unit but I'm tempted to buy the psvanes 274b. I did go for the cheaper upgrade for RCA 274bs. Been reading good comments regarding the value for their price. I should be looking for a 300b upgrade now but I keep reading this thread.


----------



## TonyNewman

audioclyde said:


> Tony, when you post your comparison of the 300B's, please give us a heads up in this thread--I don't want to miss your assessment. I'm running the SERP's in my Manley preamp, but have the Psvane replica 2A3's in my amp and really like them. I'm anxious to read how the SERP vs Psvane replica turns out. I'd love to try a pair of Takasuki (think I spelled that right), but the cost has made me wait.
> 
> Sorry, back to the great discussion of the rectifiers!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Randy - link below to the comparison between the SERPs and Psvane WE300B replicas (from the Woo amp thread).
  
Link
  
Follow up


----------



## Audioclyde

Thanks Tony!


----------



## TonyNewman

audioclyde said:


> Thanks Tony!


 
  
 Happy to share 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've been really thrilled at how the SERPs have matured and settled down during the burn in. Extension, musicality and detail - great combination. And that BASS (particularly when paired with the Psvane WE274B replicas). I didn't think tubes could deliver bass like that. I was wrong (and very happy about it)


----------



## Moon2014

Hello everybody,
  
 I am new here at Head-Fi.org but really happy to found this thread. I bought my Psvane 274B Replica  for my WA6 before I read this thread.
  
 I think I had not spent so much time for burning in this Tube. At the beginning the sound was pretty bad compared to my Sophia Princess. After 100h I thought it becomes better but at the next day again bad sound.
  
 Now after arround 230h for my ears it sounds very good with my HD800.
  
 Thanks everybody for writing here and share the information, in special Dubstep Girl for starting this thread.
  
 Dirk (Moon2014)


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *Moon2014* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ... After 100h I thought it becomes better but at the next day again bad sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Dirk - welcome to HeadFi. This is just about the most useful thread I have found on the entire forum - DubstepGirl did a fantastic job.
  
 Interesting that you found the replica behaving pretty much as I did - 200+ hours to give it's best and settle down. Other folks have found some goodness in these tubes with far fewer hours on them. I have no clue why that might be. I have burned in 3 of these tubes and they seem to need 250 (or more) hours to fully mature and stabilize.
  
 I hope you find the WE274B replica a big step up from the Sophia Princess in the WA6. It transformed my WA6 in many ways - the biggest change probably being the bass extension. They cost about $50 more than the Princess, and about $50 less than the EML mesh rectifier, but they are a far superior tube to either IMHO.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> Hi Dirk - welcome to HeadFi. This is just about the most useful thread I have found on the entire forum - DubstepGirl did a fantastic job.
> 
> Interesting that you found the replica behaving pretty much as I did - 200+ hours to give it's best and settle down. Other folks have found some goodness in these tubes with far fewer hours on them. I have no clue why that might be. I have burned in 3 of these tubes and they seem to need 250 (or more) hours to fully mature and stabilize.
> 
> I hope you find the WE274B replica a big step up from the Sophia Princess in the WA6. It transformed my WA6 in many ways - the biggest change probably being the bass extension. They cost about $50 more than the Princess, and about $50 less than the EML mesh rectifier, but they are a far superior tube to either IMHO.


 

 Hi Tony,
  
 yesterday I used my Sophia (I love how Her Royal Highness Sophia Princess look like) and it was okay but today with the Replica, it sounds very very nice. I am new with HeadFi I started 3 month ago and the WA6 is my first tube amp. I also use a BHA-1 and it is interesting how the sound with the Replica changed. At the Beginning the BHA-1 sound much much better in every way. But now I am not sure. I really like the smoth sound with the WA6 and the Replica.
  
 I hope they not change the sound again like I had before after 100h.
  
 This thrad helped me a lot I also bought a Fivre Nos tube recomended by I think it was Badas, also a good one in special for this price.
  
 And I like your pics from your Sytem...the WA5 is also on my wishlist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Dirk


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> yesterday I used my Sophia (I love how Her Royal Highness Sophia Princess look like) and it was okay but today with the Replica, it sounds very very nice. I am new with HeadFi I started 3 month ago and the WA6 is my first tube amp. I also use a BHA-1 and it is interesting how the sound with the Replica changed. At the Beginning the BHA-1 sound much much better in every way. But now I am not sure. I really like the smoth sound with the WA6 and the Replica.
> 
> ...


 
  
 At 230 hours you should be very near the end of the audio pain. You might notice some small harshness still present that slowly fades away over the next 50 or so hours - that should be about it. I would be very surprised if you had any big changes from 230 hrs.
  
 WA6 was my first tube amp - the start of my addiction. I still use it as my PC audio amp for music + gaming via the Moon 100D DAC with a pair of HD600s. It still delivers great sound and I love the little beast.
  
 Badas lent me a Fivre to try - great tube for the money - but for performance alone I think the replica kills it (as it should for 4 times the price).
  
 The WA5 is a great amp, but it really needs top tubes to shine. This can get expensive, particularly the 300Bs. If I add up the cost of the tubes I have for the WA5 it would exceed the price of the amp itself. No regrets though - put top tubes in the amp, hook up your favorite headphone of choice (I like a modded HE6 via the K1K output - not possible on the WA5LE) and prepare yourself for HeadFi nirvana


----------



## Badas

Hi,
  
 I wanted to give a bit of info for those of you still hunting down Mullard GZ32's.
 Damn fine sounding tube.
  
 Here is a tip.
  
 A lot of them can be labeled up Philips GZ32 or Miniwatt Philips GZ32. They also sell for a lot less. I have picked up two for less than US$30.
  
 However there is a pitfall. Not all Philips GZ32's came out of the Mullard factory. Some came from the Mazda factory that was in France. They even look the same. To help you I have identified two differences.
  
 1. If it is from the Mullard factory it will have a code "R71" (top line).
  
 If no code is available look for this:
  
 2. The internals look absolutely the same except the Mullard has bite marks on the corners of the plates. See below:
  

  
 First the Mullard. See the arrow and note the bite marks.
  

  
 This is a Philips Miniwatt from the Mazda factory. Note no bite marks.
  

  
 This is a Philips from the Mullard factory. It has the bite marks and also has a code R71. I got this for US$25.00
  
 There are other features I have noted. However you need them right beside each other. They have very slightly different top micras. Plus the Mazda has smaller rods.
  
 Do they sound the same. Noooooooooooooo.
  
 The Philips MiniWatt from the Mullard factory sounds exactly like a Mullard.
  
 The Philips MiniWatt from the Mazda factory sounds awful. Mid range magic is gone and it is harsh. I really don't like.
  
 I hope this helps.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wanted to give a bit of info for those of you still hunting down Mullard GZ32's.
> Damn fine sounding tube.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Dono - that's very helpful. NOS Mullard GZ32s below the $100 USD mark are getting harder to find. At that price level the $220 Psvane WE274B replica starts to look like a better value buy. Twice the price, but a significantly better performing tube.
  
 Interesting that the tubes are almost identical in construction, but very different in sound.
  
 EDIT - did a quick search - the only seller I could find with NOS Mullard GZ32s under $100 were these guys (based in Turkey - I have bought GZ32s from them before - great service). $89 per tube.
  
GZ32s


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Thanks Dono - that's very helpful. NOS Mullard GZ32s below the $100 USD mark are getting harder to find. At that price level the $220 Psvane WE274B replica starts to look like a better value buy. Twice the price, but a significantly better performing tube.
> 
> Interesting that the tubes are almost identical in construction, but very different in sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your welcome. I will help out when I can.
  
 Very different sound. They look identical. However different codes. Incidently I forgot to post above the Mullards also come with R71 codes.
 They have the same bottles. Same construction. It is just the bite marks, Top Micra construction and rods that are different.
 The Mazda is an awful sounding tube. Harsh and no Magic anywhere. It does have better bass tho. But all mid-range magic is swept away.
  
 If you can hunt down the Philips tubes made in the Mullard R71 factory they can often be picked up for a bargain. Often sellers don't know they are special. I have picked up two cheaply. One at US$30 and another at US$25. Both NOS and NIB. Both sound fantastic.


----------



## Badas

I have another rectifier coming that hasn't been talked about yet.
  

  

  
  

  
 Brimar 5Z4GY
  
 It looked interesting to me. Especially the plates with large holes.
 Only GBP 30.00 each. So I have two on the way.
  
 I will report when I have had a listen.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Interesting that the tubes are almost identical in construction, but very different in sound.




I thought I would be fair and give the Mazda tube another go. I thought I could do a listening session with it.
It is damn awful in the worste way. Be warned avoid. Probably worse than the stock rectifier.
I couldn't handle a session with it. Had to yank it out hot. It nearly made me scream. Just butchered the music.
Changed for the Fivre and everything was good in the world again. 

So I would rank the Philips Miniwatt made by Mazda in France as one of the worst tubes you can buy. So it pays to be careful. Look for those Philips Miniwatts with R71 codes and the bites in the plates. 

Mazda codes come with a 6727 factory code. Avoid.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ... Probably worse than the stock rectifier...


 
  
 The stock rectifier sucks huge, hairy donkey balls. To outdo that level of galactic sucktitude is really something


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The stock rectifier sucks huge, hairy donkey balls. To outdo that level of galactic sucktitude is really something :wink_face:




Yeah. That is the risk with going the Philips route.

Sure if you know what you are looking for you can get Mullard bargains. However get the Mazda version and you will want to smash your headphones and give up living. That terrible. I thought I was listening to the worste SS amp ever made. Not a Woo.

Strange Philips got classy well made tubes from the Mullard factory and Dog turd tubes from the Mazda factory at the same time. :rolleyes:


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> At 230 hours you should be very near the end of the audio pain. You might notice some small harshness still present that slowly fades away over the next 50 or so hours - that should be about it. I would be very surprised if you had any big changes from 230 hrs.
> 
> WA6 was my first tube amp - the start of my addiction. I still use it as my PC audio amp for music + gaming via the Moon 100D DAC with a pair of HD600s. It still delivers great sound and I love the little beast.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Tony,
  
 you use also the Replica with your WA6, which Power/Driver Tube you use or which one you can recomend for/with the Replica?
 At the moment I use Tronix 6EM7.
  
 Thanks
  
 Dirk


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> you use also the Replica with your WA6, which Power/Driver Tube you use or which one you can recomend for/with the Replica?
> At the moment I use Tronix 6EM7.
> ...


 
  
 I use the Psvane CV-181 T2 (grey bottle). Needs the 6SN7 adapters to fit in the WA6 - I use the Woo adapters and they work well.
  
 These are excellent 6SN7s - for extension, clarity, detail and balance they beat anything else I have tried (including a bunch of NOS). The only sin they commit is by omission - they are a little dry and lack warmth / euphony. Pair them with a warmish rectifier (like the Mullard GZ32 or PSvane WE274B replica) and it works very, very well.
  
 These tubes are BIG for 6SN7s, so an octal socket saver can be necessary for the rectifier to stop the tubes from touching.
  
 Here's some WA6 pics. It's a little hard to tell from the pics (blame the dumbass camera operator), but there is about a 3mm space between all the tubes.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> I use the Psvane CV-181 T2 (grey bottle). Needs the 6SN7 adapters to fit in the WA6 - I use the Woo adapters and they work well.
> 
> These are excellent 6SN7s - for extension, clarity, detail and balance they beat anything else I have tried (including a bunch of NOS). The only sin they commit is by omission - they are a little dry and lack warmth / euphony. Pair them with a warmish rectifier (like the Mullard GZ32 or PSvane WE274B replica) and it works very, very well.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice Pics!
  
 My Dealer have this im Programm but currently out of stock. I think I had to order the Adapter for the 6SN7 when I ordered my WA6, so I will have again the shipping cost to Germany. I bougt the 6EM7 with adapters directly from Woo Audio.
  
 Here is a link to a picture of my WA6 https://twitter.com/WooAudio/status/542129198630842368/photo/1
 Where did you buy the octal socket saver.
  
 Dirk


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> Nice Pics!
> 
> My Dealer have this im Programm but currently out of stock. I think I had to order the Adapter for the 6SN7 when I ordered my WA6, so I will have again the shipping cost to Germany. I bougt the 6EM7 with adapters directly from Woo Audio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd suggest purchasing direct from China for Psvane / Shuguang tubes. They currently have a sale on - link below:
  
link
  
 I have purchased from these folks many times - never had a problem with the billing/shipping.
  
 If you prefer Ebay there are also several sellers on there. One I have used is given below:
  
Link
  
 These folks ship out of Hong Kong. I can recommend them also - I have made several purchases from them.
  
 Given the current pricing of the Mullard GZ32 ($90+) I would recommend going direct to the Psvane WE274B replica. It is a significantly better tube and well worth the extra cost. It transforms the WA6 by giving it some BASS impact (as well as many other improvements).
  
 Not sure how difficult the customs / postal folks are in your part of the world, but you might make a significant saving by purchasing direct or by Ebay. Local dealers can have exorbitant mark ups.
  
 A premium grade pair of Psvane T2s should not be costing more than around $180USD (excluding postage and any import duties). Some re-sellers have been gouging folks for a lot more than that.


----------



## MIKELAP

I heard about the U52 being a good rectifier but anybody have a listen to the GEC U54 rectifier is it as good ,and to what other rectifier would it compare to and pricewize how much are we talking about .Thanks


----------



## whirlwind

Dubstep, i am working my way thru this thread....looking for tubes for my 2359glenn that i will be getting in the near future.
  
 This is one of the best threads on head-fi
  
 Thanks a lot for starting it....very useful.....kudos


----------



## Badas

I just scored myself another Philips GZ32 exactly the same as the Mullard GZ32 with same factory codes.
  
 US$29 NIB and NOS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That makes 5 now. I don't think I need anymore.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I just scored myself another Philips GZ32 exactly the same as the Mullard GZ32 with same factory codes.
> 
> US$29 NIB and NOS.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sell them later as Mullard GZ32 equivalents (which they are). Price is now $90 USD and going upwards


----------



## Badas

Okay,

I would like to introduce the new kid on the block.

The Brimar 5Z4GY. About US$50 from the UK.



Mullard left. Brimar right.


I've been using the Mullard GZ32 for the last week so I thought I would compare to it. The Brimar is a similar size to the Mullard. Very different internals. I really like the look.

First reactions. Damn this is the silkiest rectifier I own. Sounds like liquid. Musical notes sound so detailed.
Treble is notably better than the Mullard. Higher, more detailed and that silky sound.
Haven't really noted mid-range or bass yet. Early days. Quick thoughts are they are very balanced. I will give more details latter.

I will leave with a light up shot.


----------



## isquirrel

Glad you like the Brimars. I have eyeing off some black glass 6SN7's, my tube guy doesn't have much experience because they are English but I consistently hear good things about them.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Glad you like the Brimars. I have eyeing off some black glass 6SN7's, my tube guy doesn't have much experience because they are English but I consistently hear good things about them.




I have never had a bad British tube. Not saying there isn't bad British tubes. Just every one I have had so far has been a class act.

Brimar rectifier is fantastic. Bass is clean and clear. Not heavy. Well balanced. Not sure about Mid-range yet. It certainly isn't dry. I think it could be close similar to the Mullard. What really is strong is the treble. Best sounding I have heard. My wife's second opinion ears is suitably impressed as well. Her comment is nothing sounds digital. 

Very impressive for such a young tube as well. It could get even better with hours on it. 

This tube was so new it still had talc powder on the pins. Boxes were immaculate and had the military stamps on them. 

I don't know how Yitry on eBay does it but he finds fantastic tubes at really reasonable prices. Very highly recommended trader.


----------



## Oskari

badas said:


> I don't know how Yitry on eBay does it but he finds fantastic tubes at really reasonable prices. Very highly recommended trader.


 
  
 Yitry = Langrex, long established in the business.
  

http://www.langrex.co.uk


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > Glad you like the Brimars. I have eyeing off some black glass 6SN7's, my tube guy doesn't have much experience because they are English but I consistently hear good things about them.
> ...


 
 Got my Fivre 5R4GY from Langrex received in 7 workdays British post always fast and like you say at a reasonable  price


----------



## isquirrel

Good seller, thanks for the heads up ! Bought some Brimar black bottle 6SN7's.


----------



## Badas

Okay a update on the Brimar 5Z4GY.
  
 Treble: High and Silky. Doesn't get harsh however extends higher than anything else I have heard.
 Mid-range: Beautiful. Within a hair of the Mullard GZ32. Super nice.
 Bass: Clean and clear. Nice and deep without getting muddy.
  
 All in all I can't fault. It ticks everything in my wishlist. Maybe the treble is a tad too high however I'm being picky. I don't think it would have that silky sound if the treble was rolled a bit.
 At this stage I think this is the best rectifier I have heard. Even beating the Psvane 274B replica.
 The joke in all this is they are on sale for 12.50 pound from Langrex. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm broke right now. However at that price I will buy 5 more early next year.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Okay a update on the Brimar 5Z4GY.
> 
> Treble: High and Silky. Doesn't get harsh however extends higher than anything else I have heard.
> Mid-range: Beautiful. Within a hair of the Mullard GZ32. Super nice.
> ...


 
 Brilliant find - I'll order some shortly. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Angelbelow

tonynewman said:


> Brilliant find - I'll order some shortly. Thanks for sharing.


 

 I will too! Do we need to worry about match pairs or just place an order for 2 is fine?


----------



## Badas

angelbelow said:


> I will too! Do we need to worry about match pairs or just place an order for 2 is fine?


 

 Does your amp use two rectifiers? If so I would ask for matched.
  
 The thing is from Langrex these were untouched and not tested. They had never ever been removed from the box.
  
 There was talc powder all over the pins. I presume it is to keep the pins dry. No one had touched these since manufacture.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Does your amp use two rectifiers? If so I would ask for matched.
> 
> The thing is from Langrex these were untouched and not tested. They had never ever been removed from the box.
> 
> There was talc powder all over the pins. I presume it is to keep the pins dry. No one had touched these since manufacture.


 
  
 I don't get too excited about tube matching. Same brand, same type - I'm happy.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> angelbelow said:
> 
> 
> > I will too! Do we need to worry about match pairs or just place an order for 2 is fine?
> ...


 
 Looks like party's  over there 30 pounds now


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Looks like party's  over there 30 pounds now


 

 No. It is still 12.50 direct.
  
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
  
 Not far down the list.
  
 It has always been 30 pounds on ebay. That is what I paid. I didn't realize I could get from Langrex.
 According to their stock records they have 1288. So the party should go for a while.


----------



## Angelbelow

badas said:


> Does your amp use two rectifiers? If so I would ask for matched.
> 
> The thing is from Langrex these were untouched and not tested. They had never ever been removed from the box.
> 
> There was talc powder all over the pins. I presume it is to keep the pins dry. No one had touched these since manufacture.


 
  
 Yeah it does, Okay Ill ask them. Thanks!


----------



## punit

badas said:


> No. It is still 12.50 direct.
> 
> http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


 
 Thanks, will try them.


----------



## Moon2014

I am just ordered the Brimare 5Z4GY direct in the shop from Langrex.
 I am interested how this tube sounds compared to the replica.
  
 For everyone ordered also I think Langrex at the moment closed for holiday/vacation. I found a notice on ebay website from langrex (ebay name yitry), they will be back on 5th January. I think the orders will be delayed a little bit may be not. Maybe only for the ebay items?
  
 I ordered one time before and it was very good communication and very fast shipment. I can recommend this shop.
  
 I also ordered a Mullard GZ30, now I am looking forward for some tube rolling....


----------



## Badas

moon2014 said:


> I am just ordered the Brimare 5Z4GY direct in the shop from Langrex.
> I am interested how this tube sounds compared to the replica.
> 
> For everyone ordered also I think Langrex at the moment closed for holiday/vacation. I found a notice on ebay website from langrex (ebay name yitry), they will be back on 5th January. I think the orders will be delayed a little bit may be not. Maybe only for the ebay items?
> ...




Yeah I was kinda interested in that Mullard GZ30 as well. Also noticed the Mullard 6080. Very interesting.

I'm listening to my WA22 with the Brimar 5Z4GY in right now. I always get worried when recommending a tube and others buy.

Not this time. This tube is beautiful. Strange it sounds so freakin amazing brand new as well.

Now I'm actually worried that I did do a deal with the devil for this tube.


----------



## Moon2014

At the moment my favorite is the replica (after burning in) It sounds to me very good, very good bass nice smoth mids and highs especialy for female voices.
  
 I have also the Sophia Princess 274B and the Fivre NOS and the stock tube.
  
 Her Royal Highness Sophia Princess is one of the most beautiful rectifier tube I have ever seen. I really love the glow by night.


----------



## Badas

moon2014 said:


> At the moment my favorite is the replica (after burning in) It sounds to me very good, very good bass nice smoth mids and highs especialy for female voices.
> 
> I have also the Sophia Princess 274B and the Fivre NOS and the stock tube.
> 
> Her Royal Highness Sophia Princess is one of the most beautiful rectifier tube I have ever seen. I really love the glow by night.




If you like glow you will be a little let down on the Brimar. Not much there. However the sound. 

I'm listening to Bruce Springsteen We Shall Overcome: The Seeger Sessions. The combination of high pitch instruments (Sax, violin etc) and the gravely voice is pure musical joy.


----------



## Moon2014

badas said:


> If you like glow you will be a little let down on the Brimar. Not much there. However the sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes the look is nothing special..same the replica.. but the most important thing is the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yesterday I listened to Barb Jungr and Carol Kid and I was totaly impressed by the sound from my WA6 and HD800, I compared it to my STAX with Woo WEE and I liked the Sennheiser and WA6 more. At the moment the STAX is new and I think not fully burned in.. And I Think I need a dedicated Electrostatic Headphone Amp..


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> Okay a update on the Brimar 5Z4GY.
> 
> Treble: High and Silky. Doesn't get harsh however extends higher than anything else I have heard.
> Mid-range: Beautiful. Within a hair of the Mullard GZ32. Super nice.
> ...


 
 Send a link please.


----------



## Moon2014

magiccabbage said:


> Send a link please.


 
  
  


badas said:


> No. It is still 12.50 direct.
> 
> http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
> 
> ...


 

 It is the link Badas send you have to scroll down a litle bit
  
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


----------



## magiccabbage

moon2014 said:


> It is the link Badas send you have to scroll down a litle bit
> 
> http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


 
 thanks


----------



## Moon2014

magiccabbage said:


> thanks


 

 You´re welcome!


----------



## punit

badas said:


> Also noticed the Mullard 6080. Very interesting.


 
 The Mullard 6080 is a nice tube & for the price that they are offering, its a good deal.


----------



## TonyNewman

Just got a confirmation that my Ebay order for 4 of these puppies has SHIPPED. Order was placed less than 24 hours ago - so someone at Langrex is on the ball 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 No word back on my email enquiry about postage to NZ for a direct order. According to the website, the postage rates only apply within the UK - overseas orders are to email for a quote. I don't expect to hear back from that until after Jan 5th (but given the response time above I might get a pleasant surprise).
  
 If I get the chance to order direct I will go for another 4. These things are super cheap compared to any other decent rectifier on the market - a single replica goes for the cost of 4 Brimars, even at the higher Ebay price. Grab em while you can, people!!


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Just got a confirmation that my Ebay order for 4 of these puppies has SHIPPED. Order was placed less than 24 hours ago - so someone at Langrex is on the ball
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Let me know how it goes with those tubes. If you like the sound of them I will buy a pair


----------



## TonyNewman

Found an interesting rectifier mini-review that gives the Brimars a huge recommendation - mids close to the vintage WE274B!! Performance right up there with the U52, at a tiny fraction of the price. No wonder these things sound better than the Psvane WE274B replica.
  
 Dono - you aren't the only one to be thrilled with these tubes. Great find - thanks again for posting about them.
  
Link to mini-review
  
 My 2 cents - get some - do it now - even at the higher Ebay price.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Found an interesting rectifier mini-review that gives the Brimars a huge recommendation - mids close to the vintage WE274B!! Performance right up there with the U52, at a tiny fraction of the price. No wonder these things sound better than the Psvane WE274B replica.
> 
> Dono - you aren't the only one to be thrilled with these tubes. Great find - thanks again for posting about them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Damn good mini review. Thanks for finding. So I'm not the only one who likes.
 The music damn near brang tears to my eyes last night. I can't fault anything with the sound signature.
  
 By the way I'm going to drop one of to you today. So guys a second opinion will come from the great contributor Tony soon.
  
 The Tube I'm dropping off was brand new. I just cleaned the talc powder off. Stuck in my amp for two minutes and confirmed it is in working order then turned off. So essentially 2 minutes of use.
 You will hear great things right from startup. My jaw dropped in the first minute of listening. I wasn't expecting that at all.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Damn good mini review. Thanks for finding. So I'm not the only one who likes.
> The music damn near brang tears to my eyes last night. I can't fault anything with the sound signature.
> 
> By the way I'm going to drop one of to you today. So guys a second opinion will come from the great contributor Tony soon.
> ...


 
  
 Fanatstic -much appreciated!! I'll throw it into my WA6 and start whacking some hours on it. I'll provide some feedback as soon as it settles down in the burn in.
  
 My order for 4 from the UK via EBarf sould arrive in early January.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Fanatstic -much appreciated!! I'll throw it into my WA6 and start whacking some hours on it. I'll provide some feedback as soon as it settles down in the burn in.
> 
> My order for 4 from the UK via *EBarf* sould arrive in early January.


 
 Ebarf. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like that.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Ebarf.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can't claim it as my own.
  
 I'm thrilled that a top tier rectifier is still available for a very reasonable price. U52s and GZ34 metal bases are typically $500 bucks a tube, if you can find them. Not sure about WE422A and WE274B pricing - "lots" would be an appropriate number. The Psvane replica is good, but doesn't quite make it into the elite team. The Brimar looks very much like it does. Hooray!!! Very pleasant surprise right before Xmas


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Can't claim it as my own.
> 
> I'm thrilled that a top tier rectifier is still available for a very reasonable price. U52s and GZ34 metal bases are typically $500 bucks a tube, if you can find them. Not sure about WE422A and WE274B pricing - "lots" would be an appropriate number. The Psvane replica is good, but doesn't quite make it into the elite team. The Brimar looks very much like it does. Hooray!!! Very pleasant surprise right before Xmas


 
  
 You have one. I just delivered it.
  
 I had a thought while I was driving. Doesn't your WA5 use two? I should have given you both.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> You have one. I just delivered it.
> 
> I had a thought while I was driving. Doesn't your WA5 use two? I should have given you both.


 
  
 Thanks - and no drama on the single - I'll pop it in the WA6 tonight and get some Brimar loving that way.
  
 I will have 4 Brimars on hand in a week or two and will feed the WA5 then.
  
 Really looking forward to this - never heard a top tier rectifier before. Tube nirvana awaits...


----------



## Porteroso

So I haven't been looking at tubes for some time, and have forgotten most of what I knew.. Am now looking for WA6 rectifier options, so this Brimar 5Z4G, it goes into a WA6 just fine? For about 20 bucks shipped, that sounds like a steal if it's really that good.
  
 Thanks for all the info by the way, I know that many people like me just read and learn and enjoy the fruits of you guys tinkering around 
  
 edit: Nevermind, I was reading the woo chart wrong. I just saw the "no" beside the tube, and thought that meant it was not compatible, but really the no just means it doesn't need an adapter. Perfect. Ordering 2 now, comes out right at $50 shipped. If you guys are right, it will be the first high end sounding tube I will have heard, and if not, they're just $25 a pop which is still a super cheap rectifier in the first place.
  
 It will be a few weeks before I'm home and can listen, but I will return and give impressions. Thanks a bunch, great find.


----------



## Badas

I thought I better get myself sorted or I will miss out.
  
 So I emailed Langrex and asked them for 6 more.
 Hopefully they will stay the same price for a while.


----------



## gibosi

tonynewman said:


> Found an interesting rectifier mini-review that gives the Brimars a huge recommendation - mids close to the vintage WE274B!! Performance right up there with the U52, at a tiny fraction of the price. No wonder these things sound better than the Psvane WE274B replica.
> 
> Dono - you aren't the only one to be thrilled with these tubes. Great find - thanks again for posting about them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This mini-review includes the Brimar 5R4GY. However, it would appear that the 5Z4GY is not the same tube:
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5r4g.html
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z4g.html


----------



## TonyNewman

gibosi said:


> This mini-review includes the Brimar 5R4GY. However, it would appear that the 5Z4GY is not the same tube:
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5r4g.html
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5z4g.html


 
  
 Ah - my bad. Thanks for pointing that out.
  
 As long as these Brimars are better than the replicas, then they are going to be class act. The price is also stunningly good value.
  
 I have just put a fresh Brimar (courtesy of Badas) in my WA6 with a fresh set of T2 CV-181s - everything just starting burn in - and it already sounds excellent. A little bright as expected when fresh, but deep and strong bass is there right out of the box.
  
 The Psvane replicas also delivered great bass, but it wasn't as well defined as I'm getting from the Brimar. Slightly muddy in the replica, perhaps.
  
 I'll give this setup a week or so of burn in and see what happens. Looking forward to great things.
  
 Here's a pic for those that like some tube porn (and who doesn't?).


----------



## Angelbelow

I ordered two, but all these comments are making me wonder if I should get some back ups.


----------



## MIKELAP

If you look at stocklist there seems to be plenty


----------



## Badas

Yeah the Brimar is the GY. Like I said yesterday they have 1288.

However these could go fast. Everyone is buying decent numbers. I will be getting 8 in total. Tony is buying a few as well. That is just two of us.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Yeah the Brimar is the GY. Like I said yesterday they have 1288.
> 
> However these could go fast. Everyone is buying decent numbers. I will be getting 8 in total. Tony is buying a few as well. That is just two of us.


 
 Are you trying to corner the market lol.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Ah - my bad. Thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> As long as these Brimars are better than the replicas, then they are going to be class act. The price is also stunningly good value.
> 
> ...




Shouldn't you have left the set of drivers you had already installed in? Then you could have noted the changes the rectifier makes only.

That is what I have done. Same power and driver tubes. Only change is the Rectifier.

Yes it has high treble. However I haven't heard it like this before. It doesn't ring or distort. 
In a lot of ways it reminds me of the PSvane replica you lent me. High treble with nice bass impact. It just adds some mid-range magic as well.

Listening to now. I am very treble sensitive and nothing bothers me with it. It is nice to hear it rendered well.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Shouldn't you have left the set of drivers you had already installed in? Then you could have noted the changes the rectifier makes only.
> 
> That is what I have done. Same power and driver tubes. Only change is the Rectifier.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Normally, yes, but I wanted to put my burned in set of CV-181s from the WA6 into the TRV845. I had one blow on me a while back in the first 20 hours, so put the fresh ones in the WA6, just in case. The WA6 amp is relatively expendable, the TRV845 (and WA5) are not.
  
 I was running the Sophia 6SN7s in the TRV while waiting on some more T2s. Kinda suck tube IMHO. Doesn't have the detail and extension of the T2, and adds a level of harshness that I really don't like. Couldn't pull them out fast enough.
  
 They will all burn in together and share the sonic goodness in the WA6 - no rush on my part


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Normally, yes, but I wanted to put my burned in set of CV-181s from the WA6 into the TRV845. I had one blow on me a while back in the first 20 hours, so put the fresh ones in the WA6, just in case. The WA6 amp is relatively expendable, the TRV845 (and WA5) are not.
> 
> I was running the Sophia 6SN7s in the TRV while waiting on some more T2s. Kinda suck tube IMHO. Doesn't have the detail and extension of the T2, and adds a level of harshness that I really don't like. Couldn't pull them out fast enough.
> 
> They will all burn in together and share the sonic goodness in the WA6 - no rush on my part :wink_face:




That makes sence. 

I have always had a interest in the Sophia 6SN7. Is that the one that is labeled Full Music or something? It has been mentioned to me that it is mellow. I don't mind a tad of treble roll off. Maybe I could take them of your hands if you don't like?


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Are you trying to corner the market lol. :wink_face:




I work on the philosophy that I should have 20-30 years stock. I probably have enough tubes now to last me until I'm taking a dirt nap. Then it can be one of my son's problems finding tubes.


----------



## Badas

Listened to my go to bass track. :eek: didn't realise my headphones could do this. Bass is plentiful, powerful, scary and clean. 

Now listening to Adel 21. My go to treble album. Bright (the album is bright), but clean and clear. No harsh distortion. The bass impact lifts the game a bit as well.


----------



## Angelbelow

Really looking forward to these tunes with the way you're describing the treble. 



badas said:


> Listened to my go to bass track. :eek: didn't realise my headphones could do this. Bass is plentiful, powerful, scary and clean.
> 
> Now listening to Adel 21. My go to treble album. Bright (the album is bright), but clean and clear. No harsh distortion. The bass impact lifts the game a bit as well.


----------



## BlakeT

I must take my hat off to the tube testers/experimenters in this thread.
  
 I always *thought* I had tremendous patience for comparing gear (I can and will do it, but I don't necessarily enjoy it).  Clearly I was wrong about myself.  Next to you folks I am an impatient 5 year old screaming for my dessert before eating dinner.
  
 There is no way could I roll through that many tubes checking for differences (after about 5-6 tube comparisons I would be screaming for mercy).  Way too mentally taxing and time-consuming for me, especially given the need to let the tubes thoroughly warm up before listening critically.
  
 Thanks for taking the laboring oar!


----------



## TonyNewman

blaket said:


> I must take my hat off to the tube testers/experimenters in this thread.
> 
> I always *thought* I had tremendous patience for comparing gear (I can and will do it, but I don't necessarily enjoy it).  Clearly I was wrong about myself.  Next to you folks I am an impatient 5 year old screaming for my dessert before eating dinner.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Badas (Dono) really deserves the lion's share of any credit. His find in the Brimars is simply stunning. Better sound than the Psvane replicas at a fraction of the price. That's amazing value.
  
 I have been using the Brimar loaner from Badas for a day now, and even with burn in hardly started I can confidently say these are something special. Bass is already a step up from the Psvane replicas and utterly STUNNING!! I am getting bass out of my WA6/HD600 rig that I would expect to get from my solid state Auralic Taurus Mk2 + LCD-X combination. That's how good this tube does bass.
  
 The treble and mids are still a little bright and rough as burn in has barely started - that's to be expected. Read Badas's comments earlier in the thread on where these are expected to land. Again, stunning.
  
 If you do nothing else before the end of 2014 - get some of these tubes. Sell a kidney. Sell your children. Rob a bank. Do whatever you have to do. Get some.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Badas (Dono) really deserves the lion's share of any credit. His find in the Brimars is simply stunning. Better sound than the Psvane replicas at a fraction of the price. That's amazing value.
> 
> I have been using the Brimar loaner from Badas for a day now, and even with burn in hardly started I can confidently say these are something special. Bass is already a step up from the Psvane replicas and utterly STUNNING!! I am getting bass out of my WA6/HD600 rig that I would expect to get from my solid state Auralic Taurus Mk2 + LCD-X combination. That's how good this tube does bass.
> 
> ...




I'm glad it is not just me. The Brimar is a insane tube. Criminal how cheap it is also. 

It has lifted my WA22 into the stratosphere. 

Tony. Have you noticed how silky the sound is? It was the first thing I noticed. It was actually the sound I was desiring from a tube amp all along. 

I was tempted to keep this to myself and secretly stock up. Then I thought everyone should enjoy.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony. Have you noticed how silky the sound is?


 
  
 Not yet, probably because my T2s are fresh also. I might swap out the T2s with a burned in set from the WA5 and see what happens.
  
 Bass is already insanely good - if it does the same mids and treble it will be incredible for the price.


----------



## BlakeT

Well, I went to the langrex website and I only see 5Z4G.  I don't see 5Z4GY.


----------



## TonyNewman

blaket said:


> Well, I went to the langrex website and I only see 5Z4G.  I don't see 5Z4GY.


 
  
 That's the right tube. It has the internals that look like this:
  

  
 So you are golden.


----------



## TonyNewman

I swapped out the fresh T2s with a well used pair from my TRV amp. 90% of the harshness has gone, and all the good stuff remains.
  
 This is the best bass I have ever heard from a tube amp. This is from a WA6+HD600 rig, and this rectifier is allowing it to deliver better bass than my WA5+modded HE6 combo. Put on some rock and you get "punch me in the groin" bass. It's there when it should be. Powerful, deep and controlled. Rivals my solid state Taurus Mk2 + LCD-X, which does superb bass.
  
 This rectifier only has about 20 hours on it, and it already kills the Psvane replica in bass, and is very, very good elsewhere. That just shouldn't be. No tube should be this good at 20 hours. It's just not right. Unnatural. Wrong. Like getting wood when kissing your sister. But it IS that good at 20 hours.
  
 Male and female vocals are rendered wonderfully. I spent the past hour listening to Elvis / Loreena McKennit / Edith Piaf / Dusty Springfield / Norah Jones / Roberta Flack - even if you don't like my taste in music, I would hope that folks would agree that these are some very fine vocalists indeed - the Brimar rendered them all wonderfully. Engaging, haunting, enchanting... all those words that spill out of a 6 moons review like crap from a cow - they all apply here.
  
 I was joking the first time I suggesting selling a body part and/or child to pay for these tubes. Now I'm not sure I should be joking, but the good news is that they are not priced in the silly zone in the first place. So take that kidney and/or son/daughter off Ebay for now (just keep them handy in case you ever want some vintage WE300Bs).
  
 These are wonderfully good tubes. Top tier performance for ordinary pricing. So cough up your shekels, people, and buy some. You won't regret it.


----------



## isquirrel

Right onto a pair of these, better than the Psvanes in the bass, count me in !
  
 Good write up, thanks


----------



## isquirrel

Just bought 4 of these, Tony in your photos you are using a white base is that an adapter?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Right onto a pair of these, better than the Psvanes in the bass, count me in !
> 
> Good write up, thanks


 
  
 As the Psvanes were a jump upwards from the Mullard GZ32 (a fine tube) these are a leap upwards again from the Psvanes.
  
 I am thinking these tubes must be into the elite top tier (or damn close to it). It does spectacular things to my WA6 - I can only imagine what they will do to my WA5 (or a WA234). Combine these with the ER300Bs and I think I might explode:


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Just bought 4 of these, Tony in your photos you are using a white base is that an adapter?


 
  
 Socket saver from Ebay. Let me know if you want the link and I'll dig it out.
  
 Tube base is standard octal.


----------



## Angelbelow

Awesome. Don't think mines have shipped yet but hopefully soon!
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> As the Psvanes were a jump upwards from the Mullard GZ32 (a fine tube) these are a leap upwards again from the Psvanes.
> 
> I am thinking these tubes must be into the elite top tier (or damn close to it). It does spectacular things to my WA6 - I can only imagine what they will do to my WA5 (or a WA234). Combine these with the ER300Bs and I think I might explode:


----------



## isquirrel

Lol, totally, just thinking same thing myself


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I swapped out the fresh T2s with a well used pair from my TRV amp. 90% of the harshness has gone, and all the good stuff remains.
> 
> This is the best bass I have ever heard from a tube amp. This is from a WA6+HD600 rig, and this rectifier is allowing it to deliver better bass than my WA5+modded HE6 combo. Put on some rock and you get "punch me in the groin" bass. It's there when it should be. Powerful, deep and controlled. Rivals my solid state Taurus Mk2 + LCD-X, which does superb bass.
> 
> ...




Review of the year.

I just did a Buddy Guy listening session. Wow what bass. Blew my head off. Sounded clean and clear but forcefull. It put me in the studio.

You think it has transformed your WA6. Well imagine my WA22. It has taken off.

You guys are going to have fun with your WA5's and above.


----------



## whirlwind

badas said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > I swapped out the fresh T2s with a well used pair from my TRV amp. 90% of the harshness has gone, and all the good stuff remains.
> ...


 
 What tube are we talking about here....I may see if it will work in the 2359 glenn otl that i will be getting


----------



## Badas

whirlwind said:


> What tube are we talking about here....I may see if it will work in the 2359 glenn otl that i will be getting




We are talking about a fantastic new rectifier that we have discovered. The Brimar 5Z4GY. 

Getting top results.


----------



## gibosi

Unfortunately, the 5Z4G will not work in Glenn's OTL....
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/10830#post_11156636


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> We are talking about a fantastic new rectifier that we have discovered. The Brimar 5Z4GY.
> 
> Getting top results.


 
  
 The Brimar 5Z4GY has been a favorite of mine for years! I'm glad you're enjoying it as much as me.
  
 Year 11/27/2009: http://www.head-fi.org/t/456533/eml-5u4g-mesh-plate-vs-nos-tubes-vs-sophia-princess-274b-mesh-plate-wa22/30#post_6189613
  
 Year 5/27/2011: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/10335#post_7500514
  
 Year 1/7/2013: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593623/decware-appreciation-thread-mt-review-up-on-first-page-2-10-12/765#post_9032181
  
 Year 7/13/2013: http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/3735#post_9613647


----------



## Badas

clayton sf said:


> The Brimar 5Z4GY has been a favorite of mine for years! I'm glad you're enjoying it as much as me.
> 
> Year 11/27/2009: http://www.head-fi.org/t/456533/eml-5u4g-mesh-plate-vs-nos-tubes-vs-sophia-princess-274b-mesh-plate-wa22/30#post_6189613
> 
> ...




LOL, We discovered something you have already known. Isn't it good to know that you arn't the only one to like?


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> LOL, We discovered something you have already known. Isn't it good to know that you arn't the only one to like?


 
  
 Yes! I kept recommending it but most members in the other threads were focusing on the big ones like the 5U4, etc. I sent one to Ultrainferno last year and it blew up in his GlennAmp OTL. I actually like the way it looked first, and was surprised by how great it sounds in my Woo Amps. I also like the GZ33 and GZ37--it has a slightly warmer sound to my ear.


----------



## Badas

clayton sf said:


> Yes! I kept recommending it but most members in the other threads were focusing on the big ones like the 5U4, etc. I sent one to Ultrainferno last year and it blew up in his GlennAmp OTL. I actually like the way it looked first, and was surprised by how great it sounds in my Woo Amps. I also like the GZ33 and GZ37--it has a slightly warmer sound to my ear.




I actually like the cute small tubes instead of Giant tubes, the Mullard GZ32 is a cute looking tube also. The Brimar is a good looking tube. Especially your one with the brown base. I like the bullet holes also. Kinda reminds me of the Western Electric or the Tung-Sol 5998 power tube. 

I'm also using in the WA22. It has lifted its game another level. I wonder if it blew in the GlennAmp because of a different electrical draw? I have noticed it has a very bright light / glow and wonder if it is using more juice?

The other tubes you have listed. GZ33 and GZ37. Are they both Brimar?


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> I actually like the cute small tubes instead of Giant tubes, the Mullard GZ32 is a cute looking tube also. The Brimar is a good looking tube. Especially your one with the brown base. I like the bullet holes also. Kinda reminds me of the Western Electric or the Tung-Sol 5998 power tube.
> 
> I'm also using in the WA22. It has lifted its game another level. I wonder if it blew in the GlennAmp because of a different electrical draw? I have noticed it has a very bright light / glow and wonder if it is using more juice?
> 
> The other tubes you have listed. GZ33 and GZ37. Are they both Brimar?


 
  
 The GZ33 and GZ37 are Mullard tubes from the 1940s or 1950s.
  
 I think you've seen this video before but just in case you haven't here's the link. I find it utterly fascinating: _*Mullard - The Blackburn Vacuum Tubes Factory (Full) *_
  
 Here's a Google map of the _*Blackburn Factory now*_.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Socket saver from Ebay. Let me know if you want the link and I'll dig it out.
> 
> Tube base is standard octal.


 

 Yes thanks mate, do you mean that these will not plug straight in without an adapter? Are the pin outs correct as for a 5U4G?


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> I'm also using in the WA22. It has lifted its game another level. I wonder if it blew in the GlennAmp because of a different electrical draw? I have noticed it has a very bright light / glow and wonder if it is using more juice?


 
  
 The Glenn OTL wants 220ma. The 5Z4GY can only provide 125ma. And so the poor little rectifier busts a gut trying to satisfy the amp and in the process blows up!


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also using in the WA22. It has lifted its game another level. I wonder if it blew in the GlennAmp because of a different electrical draw? I have noticed it has a very bright light / glow and wonder if it is using more juice?
> ...


 
 I will scratch this tube off of my list.....lol


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Yes thanks mate, do you mean that these will not plug straight in without an adapter? Are the pin outs correct as for a 5U4G?


 
  
 The socket saver is there only so that the fat CV181s can fit with the rectifier - no other reason. The base of the rectifier is standard octal - it will plug directly into the WA5 or WA6.


----------



## Angelbelow

Going to place another order of the Brimar 5z4gy, any other notable deals or must try tubes off of langrex' website?


----------



## Porteroso

So, this might have already been covered, but on the "common valve' listing, it says 5Z4G, but the picture right beside it says 5Z4GY, but the stock list has both.... For those who have received their orders, did you get the Y version or not?


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> So, this might have already been covered, but on the "common valve' listing, it says 5Z4G, but the picture right beside it says 5Z4GY, but the stock list has both.... For those who have received their orders, did you get the Y version or not?




They are both the same.


----------



## Oskari

A warning: There are also Russian-made Brimar-branded 5Z4Gs. Be careful.


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> A warning: There are also Russian-made Brimar-branded 5Z4Gs. Be careful.




The ones from Yitry or Langrex seem to be fine.


----------



## Oskari

badas said:


> The ones from Yitry or Langrex seem to be fine.


 
  
 Yeah. They should know the difference, and they also show photos.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have some more hours on the Brimar. Bass is a little tighter. Biggest change is the mids / highs - the silkiness mentioned by Badas is coming through - lovely stuff.
  
 This tubes beats the replica in every area I can think of for a tiny fraction of the price. Best value tube I have come across so far in HeadFi.
  
 Buy some and enjoy


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> I have some more hours on the Brimar. Bass is a little tighter. Biggest change is the mids / highs - the silkiness mentioned by Badas is coming through - lovely stuff.
> 
> This tubes beats the replica in every area I can think of for a tiny fraction of the price. Best value tube I have come across so far in HeadFi.
> 
> Buy some and enjoy


 
 I hope there are some left - do they have to be matched pairs and do Langrex sell them as matched pairs?


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## Porteroso

Thanks badas, I had emailed langrex and they said the same thing. So before this all started, the stocklist showed 6668 total tubes.... I wonder how much of a dent everyone will have made when they update their stocklist


----------



## isquirrel

porteroso said:


> Thanks badas, I had emailed langrex and they said the same thing. So before this all started, the stocklist showed 6668 total tubes.... I wonder how much of a dent everyone will have made when they update their stocklist


 

 Looking forward to mine arriving !
  
 Thanks badas


----------



## Porteroso

He did say that mine have already shipped, so I think that everyone who bought them before Christmas should be getting theirs soon. I unfortunately won't be home for 2 weeks to listen to them  I will have to live vicariously off of what will surely be long, detailed, thrillers of exposition that the rest of you will post.


----------



## San Raal

I ordered 4 5Z4G yesterday from Langrex. they arrived today. (I live about 50 miles from their warehouse)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 All were in a carton and cardboard packaging, 3 were black base marked 5Z4G and 1 was a brown base marked 5Z4GY. Internal construction looks identical in both types.
  
 I only have 100 hours on the psvane replica 274B, this is a great sounding tube already, but if these are better for 13 quid that will be a lesson learnt!
  
 From the little Ive put on the WE 422A so far, its a magical sounding tube, im not great with audio lingo. However the 422A had the edge over the psvane replica 274B to my ears, both have great PRaT but the 422 just has a silkiness and liquidity to it that looses you in the music. The psvane replica 274B is a fantastic tube though, far better (to my ears) than anything I had used before in my WA5 (EL Mesh 5U4G, Mullard Black 5AR4, Tungsol 5U4G, 596, Sophia mesh 274B - that said it would of been more fair to give the 596 more burn in)


----------



## magiccabbage

san raal said:


> I ordered 4 5Z4G yesterday from Langrex.


 
 Do they need to be a matched pair? I might buy them today


----------



## San Raal

magiccabbage said:


> Do they need to be a matched pair? I might buy them today


 
  
 Honestly Im not certain as I am not familiar with the Woo WA5 circuit design. I dont think its dual mono, I think the rectifiers are in parallel to deliver more power to the amp.


----------



## San Raal

There is some info here on that subject, though I would take it into consideration that they are selling tube matching. From what Ive read tube matching is important with push pull designs and with dual mono, I dont think the WA5 is either.
  
 http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/virofpowtubm.html
 http://www.amp-fix.com/biasing.htm
  
 this also maybe relevant
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/14370
  
 You could ask Langrex if they offer that service if you want the peace of mind?
  
 HTH


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> I ordered 4 5Z4G yesterday from Langrex. they arrived today. (I live about 50 miles from their warehouse)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please share your thoughts on the WE422A vs Brimar 5Z4G vs Psvane WE274B replica when ready.
  
 I found the Brimar doesn't require a marathon burn in like the Psvane - I can't notice any changes after 80 hours or so.
  
 To my ears the Brimar beats the Psvane in just about everything. Bass is a real standout with the Brimar. Deeper and sharper definition than the Psvane (which had deep bass already, but could get a little muddy). Highs and mids are also excellent - a touch smoother than the Psvane. The Brimar is a bargain tube. Fantastic bang for the buck.


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## San Raal

> The Brimar is a bargain tube. Fantastic bang for the buck.


 
  
 After 2 hours of enjoying some Tina Turner and Yelo last night with the Brimar 5Z4G in, I agree with this statement.
  
 These tubes are a no brainer to try at 13 quid a pop.
  
 As for the comparison, I have some more time on the Psvane and some more listening to do but right now if I was to list in order of perceived preference.
  
 WE422
 Brimar 5Z4G and U52
 Psvane replica
 Mullard 5AR4 black base
 EL 5U4G mesh
 Sophia  274B mesh
 596
 TS 5U4G
  
 But many on that list need more burn in. My 300B are always Takatsuki and 6SN7 are the brown base Brimar (square getter)


----------



## Moon2014

Today I received my 5Z4G BRIMAR black base. At the moment I am burnig in...Maybe in the evening I will have the first listennig session..I am looking forward..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here some pics...the Brimar is smaller then the Replica..:


----------



## copajohn

Hello all,
  
 Just purchased the WA6-SE.  Can you use this Brimar tube with this amp?  What do the letters mean after the 5Z4?
  
 Quote:


moon2014 said:


> I am just ordered the Brimare 5Z4GY direct in the shop from Langrex.
> I am interested how this tube sounds compared to the replica.
> 
> For everyone ordered also I think Langrex at the moment closed for holiday/vacation. I found a notice on ebay website from langrex (ebay name yitry), they will be back on 5th January. I think the orders will be delayed a little bit may be not. Maybe only for the ebay items?
> ...


----------



## Porteroso

Yes, you can use the Brimar. Apparently the 5Z4G and the 5Z4GY were manufactured identically, and both will go into the WA6 and the SE variant. The G and GY mean something, I'm not sure what, but you can look up the standards for what those letters mean.


----------



## San Raal

G means glass, the 5Z4 was a metal bottle tube. No idea about the Y, all I could find was a post stating its a military version. But the tube box I have here have a military code, CV1863, regardless of if its a 5Z4G or 5Z4GY.
  
 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0079.htm


----------



## BlakeT

Dennis Had is the founder of Cary Audio (he sold the company and is now semi-retired and making tube amps now for fun).  I sent an email to Dennis asking him whether I could use the 5Z4G in my Dennis Had IHA-1 Dragon Inspire tube amp.  His reply:
  
  
 "Blake:
  
 Greetings from Cary, North Carolina.  Nice to hear from you today.  You certainly may use the Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier in the mighty IHA-1 Dragon style "can-amp".  You'll find this of interest ... I purchased 144 of the British 5Z4GY tubes back in 1990 from Richardson Electronics.  I used them in the early Cary SLA-70 stereo 70 watt amplifiers.  Oh, I used some in the 300SE mono's as well.  Very nice presentation indeed."
  
 My 5Z4G has not yet arrived but I look forward to comparing it to my Brimar U52.


----------



## Oskari

san raal said:


> No idea about the Y


 
  
 Y means low-loss micanol base.


----------



## Badas

Hey Guys,

Back from 9 days camping holiday. Damn it was great. The best ever. Not one drop of rain.

Anyhow. I decided to kick the tube amp back into action and to give the Brimar another burn. 

Usually I go for the female artists with high treble as to my ears it is the hardest to get right.

Then I thought ***** that. Let's go for deep male voices. Kicking back to some Pearl Jam right now. Deep gorgeous bass. Eddy sounds amazing. So the Brimar does a great job of this kind of music as well.

Hope you guys had a great Christmas and New Year. 

The weather in New Zealand is just wonderful right now and I still have a few weeks holiday to go. ROCK.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Back from 9 days camping holiday. Damn it was great. The best ever. Not one drop of rain.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lucky bugger!! I worked right through 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I agree - the Brimar does a very good job with male and female vocals.


----------



## TonyNewman

Quick update on the Brimars. My first batch of 4 arrived today and I rushed home during the lunch break and plugged them into my WA5. Even without any burn in whatsoever, the results are excellent.
  
 This tube is very good in the WA6 and it is even better in the WA5 (as you might expect). Tighter + deeper bass, nicer vocals, better treble, bags of detail.
  
 Running SERPs and Psvane T2 CV-181s in the WA5. Brimars give it a real lift over the Psvane replica 274Bs. Excellent results with the modded HE6 via the K1K output.
  
 When Badas drops by to pick up the loaner Brimar rectifier I will try and arrange a listening session to get a second opinion on the WA5 with the Brimars.
  
 Oddly, this is a tube that doesn't seem to need much burn in at all. It sounds excellent right from the moment it is plugged in. I did notice a moderate improvement in the WA6 over the first 50 or so hours - will be interesting if that is noticeable with the WA5 also (it should be).
  
 Anyone else getting some rectifier lovin from the Brimars?


----------



## Porteroso

I will be using mine in a few days... Has anyone compared it to the better rectifiers yet? Done any a/b listening? I'm expecting to literally be blown off the planet straight up to the moon, with a nice, smooth, balanced landing.


----------



## vphan

I'm pretty new to this and thank you for educate me with this great thread.


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> I will be using mine in a few days... Has anyone compared it to the better rectifiers yet? Done any a/b listening? I'm expecting to literally be blown off the planet straight up to the moon, with a nice, smooth, balanced landing.


 
  
 Best I have to a/b against is the Psvane WE274B replica - and it is a step up from that rectifier (which is very good, by the way).
  
 Others have vintage WE422A and other such top tier tubes. Haven't heard much back from them yet, but hope too soon. I am very hopeful that the Brimar gets close to these legendary rectifiers.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Best I have to a/b against is the Psvane WE274B replica - and it is a step up from that rectifier (which is very good, by the way).
> 
> Others have vintage WE422A and other such top tier tubes. Haven't heard much back from them yet, but hope too soon. I am very hopeful that the Brimar gets close to these legendary rectifiers.




You forgot that you have the Mullard GZ32 which also gets rave reviews. I believe the Brimar blows it away. Which is a big achievement.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> You forgot that you have the Mullard GZ32 which also gets rave reviews. I believe the Brimar blows it away. Which is a big achievement.


 
  
 I think both the Psvane WE274B replica and the Brimar both blow it away, so I don't mention it much anymore. I was heavily in lust with it for a while, then I found the replica, then you put me onto to the Brimar. I am a total tube slut - going wherever I get the best satisfaction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 GZ32 is still a good tube though - and it kills a lot of the new production rectifiers out there (EML mesh and Sophia Princess - I am looking at both of you overpriced hunks of junk).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tonynewman said:


> I think both the Psvane WE274B replica and the Brimar both blow it away, so I don't mention it much anymore. I was heavily in lust with it for a while, then I found the replica, then you put me onto to the Brimar. I am a total tube slut - going wherever I get the best satisfaction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 its all i use on my WA5 these days


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> its all i use on my WA5 these days


 
  
 GZ32 has lovely, lovely mids. Really top class in that respect, but it lacks good bass. Both the replica and the Brimar have a lot more to offer across the entire spectrum (except the mids) - and given the crazy cheap price of the Brimars at the moment they make a lot of sense.


----------



## San Raal

As an every day tube, the 5Z4G is a winner. Given the price there are enough available to run for a lifetime. The WE 422 ill squirell away for Sunday best, there is something magical about those tubes that ill write up on when I can do it justice.
  
 I cant wait to try the 5Z4G with the WA5 using speakers. Time for another Vinyl dinner party and to impress with the mighty WA5


----------



## magiccabbage

Do you guys think I should skip the EML 300b mesh and just get the Elrogs? Are the EML's a big jump up from the stock 300b's maybe I should get the EML's first and the Elrogs later? 
  
 Paddy


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Do you guys think I should skip the EML 300b mesh and just get the Elrogs? Are the EML's a big jump up from the stock 300b's maybe I should get the EML's first and the Elrogs later?
> 
> Paddy


 
 Paddy IMHO go for the Elrog's, they sound so much better than the EML Mesh plates, that's not to say the EML's sound bad if anything they are too laid back, its almost as though the music is playing slower if that makes sense. One area I thought the EML's would surpass the Elrog's is in mid range lushness but they don't in fact the Elrog's have it over the EML's for emotionally connecting you with the music.
  
 During burn in the EML's have improved but at the same stage the Elrog's were much better, seriously they made my partner weep when she heard her favourite opera with them and they continue to get better.
  
 I am going to sell my EML's I see no point in holding on them when I will always go for the Elrog's - EVERY-TIME
  
 The Elrog's are quite clearly better made too. Pair them with a TS RP, Brimar, RCA Grey Plate Early 1940 examples with a good rectifier and you will be very happy.
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## Angelbelow

Just got my Brimars in the mail but won't be home for another 6 or 7 hours, bummer.


----------



## vphan

Does the Brimar 5Z4G required any adapter to use it with WA6SE? Thanks.


----------



## TonyNewman

vphan said:


> Does the Brimar 5Z4G required any adapter to use it with WA6SE? Thanks.


 
  
 It has a standard octal base - plugs right into my WA6 and WA5. If the WA6SE accepts standard octal (and it should) you are golden.


----------



## MIKELAP

vphan said:


> Does the Brimar 5Z4G required any adapter to use it with WA6SE? Thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no


----------



## vphan

Thanks Tony. I just ordered one Brimar and a Mullard GZ32 last night. Can't wait to try them out on my WA6SE.


----------



## vphan

Thanks Mike and DG.


----------



## BlakeT

For those members that purchased the Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex and live in the United States, about how long did it take for your tube to arrive?
  
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

blaket said:


> For those members that purchased the Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex and live in the United States, about how long did it take for your tube to arrive?
> 
> Thanks


 
 I am in Montreal ,Canada and its always been 6-7 work days


----------



## BlakeT

mikelap said:


> I am in Montreal ,Canada and its always been 6-7 work days


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

vphan said:


> Thanks Tony. I just ordered one Brimar and a Mullard GZ32 last night. Can't wait to try them out on my WA6SE.


 
 How much are those Mullard GZ32 at Langrex ,have to email them for a price probably around $100.00 US with shipping or more ?


----------



## BlakeT

Hey, if anyone needs 12 new U52's, Langrex is selling the batch of them for 5,000 british pounds ($7,500) on Ebay.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U52-CV575-5U4G-GEC-NOS-MOV-BASE-X-12pcs-/271706026148?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3f42f0f0a4


----------



## TonyNewman

blaket said:


> Hey, if anyone needs 12 new U52's, Langrex is selling the batch of them for 5,000 british pounds ($7,500) on Ebay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U52-CV575-5U4G-GEC-NOS-MOV-BASE-X-12pcs-/271706026148?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3f42f0f0a4


 
  
 Not this week... (or any other). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wouldn't surprise me if the sale flops and they end up selling as pairs.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> SERPs doing the business in the 300B slots.
> 
> 
> *socket savers are an absolute necessity for those monsters to fit with the T2 CV-181s.*


 
 Hi Tony,
  
 I already ordered the octal socket saver for the rectifer (WA6). What kind of soket savers are necessary for the 300B?
  
 I would like to try the T2 CV-181s
  
 Could you tell where you bought it, maybe with a link, that would be great.
  
 Thanks
  
 Dirk


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I already ordered the octal socket saver for the rectifer (WA6). What kind of soket savers are necessary for the 300B?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here you go:
  
Link


----------



## vphan

mikelap said:


> How much are those Mullard GZ32 at Langrex ,have to email them for a price probably around $100.00 US with shipping or more ?




I bought it for $120 include shipping.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Link




Thank you I am just ordered...


----------



## Angelbelow

Loving the sound of the Brimars so far. I don't really have enough experience with the WA5 to discuss the details but I know the sound is fuller and noticably more pleasant. I guess that could be placebo too.    
  
 300bs are the stock shuguang tubes. and teh 6sn7gt are also stock sylvania tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

> ... 300bs are the stock shuguang tubes. and teh 6sn7gt are also stock sylvania tubes.


 
  
 Things only get better with decent 300Bs. The stock tubes are a concentrated ball of suck.


----------



## Angelbelow

tonynewman said:


> Things only get better with decent 300Bs. The stock tubes are a concentrated ball of suck.


 
  
 Battling between getting something decent at 300$, or going for the knockout punch and trying out the top tier tubes.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Things only get better with decent 300Bs. The stock tubes are a concentrated ball of suck.


 

 Yep, only useful for burning in an amp.
  


angelbelow said:


> Battling between getting something decent at 300$, or going for the knockout punch and trying out the top tier tubes.


 
  
 IMHO worth stretching to decent 300B's although as has been shown there is no need to spend as much for original WE's unless you're into collecting.


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> Battling between getting something decent at 300$, or going for the knockout punch and trying out the top tier tubes.


 
  
 WA5 is an excellent tube platform - you get a lot of sonic payoff for better tubes. If your budget goes far enough for the top tier you won't be disappointed.
  
 Only mid-range 300Bs I have are the Sophia Princess variety. OK tubes, and a step up from the puke stock tubes, but once I got hold of my first set of high end tubes they have been gathering dust ever since. Doubt they will ever get use again unless something awful happens.
  
 If I were to go mid-range I would look at the Psvane T2s or Shuguang Natural Sound series - I have both of these in 845 tubes and they are very good performers for the money (around $400). The Psvane WE845 replica style beats them in most ways, but they are twice the price. Those are some seriously good 845s.
  
Link
  
 Apologies for going a little OT here. Back to all things rectifying


----------



## San Raal

angelbelow said:


> Battling between getting something decent at 300$, or going for the knockout punch and trying out the top tier tubes.


 
  
 Try the JJ, I had a pair as my first 300B in the Woo and they are good bang for buck.


----------



## isquirrel

Thought I would try the Psvane Replica's with the Elrog's tonight.
  
 Much better, they seem to work well with the Elrog's, more bass than the metal base GZ34 and more air, not quite as euphonic, however a good match and highly enjoyable.
  
 The bigger glass seems to give more air. Bodes well for the Takatsuki 274B's


----------



## San Raal

isquirrel said:


> The bigger glass seems to give more air. Bodes well for the Takatsuki 274B's


 
  
 Ironic in a way as bigger glass means more vacumn and less air around the electrodes 
  
 Im looking forward to hearing your Takatsuki 274b impressions!


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Things only get better with decent 300Bs. The stock tubes are a concentrated ball of suck.


 
 I am still using stock tubes in the WA5 at the moment. I listened to Sibelius - symphony no.1 and 2  last night, the sound was incredible and I can only imagine what upgraded tubes will do.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> I am still using stock tubes in the WA5 at the moment. I listened to Sibelius - symphony no.1 and 2  last night, the sound was incredible and I can only imagine what upgraded tubes will do.


 
  
 It will blow your mind...


----------



## San Raal

Got 2 5Z4GY brown base today from Langrex as I received only 1 of these last time, another overnight postal arrival. Awesome 
  
 Im not expecting to hear a diference, but Ill try the brown base tonight in the WA5.


----------



## BlakeT

san raal said:


> Got 2 5Z4GY brown base today from Langrex as I received only 1 of these last time, another overnight postal arrival. Awesome
> 
> Im not expecting to hear a diference, but Ill try the brown base tonight in the WA5.


 
  
 Excellent news as I was wondering about any differences between them.


----------



## isquirrel

The Brimars have turned up, now for some listening.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> The Brimars have turned up, now for some listening.




Damn, On your rig that is going to be a big test. :eek:


----------



## Porteroso

Got the Brimars today. First impressions in the WA6 are that this is a much quieter tube, in terms of background. There was a slight buzz in the tube it was replacing, when nothing was playing, though I thought it went away when any music started. I guess not, because this black background is just beautiful. Other than that, imaging/separation is much better. Better detail too. I'm not sure I'm hearing anything in terms of extension, but the driver tubes are so terrible that maybe I wouldn't be able to hear anything. I'll do some a/b listening with some better driver tubes once the 6F8G adapters get here.
  
 I do have a Sophia, so maybe I should do a/b against that, though I pretty much already know what I'd find. I am interested though, in the soundstage difference. That's the one thing Sophia has going for it, a sense of air and presence that a wider soundstage gives.
  
 As I keep listening, this lower noise floor is so significant that it will overshadow anything else. Listened to some modern romanticky folk, and Dvorak 9, everything is significantly clearer.


----------



## Badas

Just ordered and paid for my first shipment of 6 Brimars. I will order another 6 next month. 
I'm so confident of this tube that eventually I will have and stock 14 of them.


----------



## isquirrel

I have 2 pairs they all have black bases CV1863 marked on them.
  
 Currently have 4 hours on them. No background noise, balanced tonality, not bright at all. Bass is plentiful and extended.  Soundstage is natural and wide with good separation. 
  
 Very good find, thank you Badas, you found an excellent tube. 
  
 How does the SQ change when they have more hours on them?


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Just ordered and paid for my first shipment of 6 Brimars. I will order another 6 next month.
> I'm so confident of this tube that eventually I will have and stock 14 of them.


 

 What colour bases do yours have?


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *isquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How does the SQ change when they have more hours on them?


 
  
 The Brimars are unusual in not needing much burn in at all. They sound good right out of the box and improve slightly in the first 50 or so hours, but not really anything much at all that I can detect.
  
 Perhaps a *slight *harshness that fades and an increase in sound stage and detail, and a smoothing of the mids and treble, but this is all so slight that it might just all be happening in my deranged mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have 4 and another 6 on the way, for a total of 10. Can't quite bring myself to go for more than that, perhaps another 6 just to go 2 up on Badas


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> What colour bases do yours have?




The first two I ordered have black bases. My order for another 6 I have asked for brown if possible. I think it is a pick and mix at Langrex. I wouldn't care what base I get at the end. The sound is soooooooooo good and what a price. 

The sound smooths even further with time on it. However it doesn't take long. These sound great straight from the box.
However I have now put at least 50 hours on all my tubes. My WA22 is sounding like a wet dream.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


>




What a pic. You have talent in taking pics mate.

I don't know what to look at? The Brimar, the unbelievable amp or the awesome room/house.

Interesting you have noted the same qualities from the Brimar as well. Your amp would reveal any shortcomings.


----------



## some1x

Any high rollers want to take a stab at these rectifiers? http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-NIB-HITACHI-2K12-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274A-VINTAGE-1962-CHROME-/301430653052?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item462eaac07c
 The construction looks incredible.
  
 I'm hoping the Brimars live up to the hype. Ordered some to backup my U52.


----------



## Moon2014

The price for the Brimar 5Z4G rectifer rises from 12.50 £ to 18.50 £ at Langrex (common valves)


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> The price for the Brimar 5Z4G rectifer rises from 12.50 £ to 18.50 £ at Langrex (common valves)


 
  
 Inevitable with the spike in demand. Still a massive bargain at that price.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

some1x said:


> Any high rollers want to take a stab at these rectifiers? http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-NIB-HITACHI-2K12-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274A-VINTAGE-1962-CHROME-/301430653052?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item462eaac07c
> The construction looks incredible.
> 
> I'm hoping the Brimars live up to the hype. Ordered some to backup my U52.


 
  
 those will never sell lol. not even sure if they're the same.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> those will never sell lol. not even sure if they're the same.


 
  
 They certainly don't look like it. Smells like a scam to me.


----------



## Porteroso

Wish I had bought some more at 12.50, just got 2, but that should last me a long time anyways. Also, it looks like this spike has only accounted for a couple hundred rectifiers in their stock, many thousands more still there.
  
 On the Brimar itself, I do think maybe a slight edge has faded, and I really am in awe of how transparent everything is. I should have about 20 hours on it now. I cannot wait to see what will happen with different driver tubes, but the Brimar almost becomes a part of the amp itself, and provides a stage for whatever coloring the driver tubes have to offer. I keep meaning to stick the sophia back in for a comparison, but somehow I just never reach for it.


----------



## San Raal

After a weekend of some A&B I struggled to find any real sonic differences between the black and brown base 5Z4G tubes I have from Langrex. Initially I thought that the brown base was slightly richer at the expense of some detail and air, but further comparisons with a wider range of music put this down to differences in Vinyl pressings I have.
  
 I have 6 tubes from Langrex in total. 3 blacka nd 3 brown base, of 3 different types. Ill post some pictures of the different types I have received.


----------



## Badas

san raal said:


> After a weekend of some A&B I struggled to find any real sonic differences between the black and brown base 5Z4G tubes I have from Langrex. Initially I thought that the brown base was slightly richer at the expense of some detail and air, but further comparisons with a wider range of music put this down to differences in Vinyl pressings I have.
> 
> I have 6 tubes from Langrex in total. 3 blacka nd 3 brown base, of 3 different types. Ill post some pictures of the different types I have received.




Was there any sound difference or construction differences internally?


----------



## San Raal

The internal construction is identical in all the tubes I have regardless of base colour. I could not dicern any real difference in sound either. Both sets of tubes have had less than 24 hours of burn in.
  
 What is clear is that these tubes to my ears are second only to the WE422A which has a tonal balance that is simply stunning, Brimar 5Z4G get 90% there and for 5% of the price. An amazing find, thankyou!


----------



## San Raal

Does anyone know a good quality source for socket savers for the octal rectifiers in the Woo WA5 ?


----------



## isquirrel

Took a photo to show the difference in size of various rectifiers.


----------



## isquirrel

san raal said:


> Does anyone know a good quality source for socket savers for the octal rectifiers in the Woo WA5 ?


 

 Try Jacmusic


----------



## Moon2014

isquirrel said:


> Took a photo to show the difference in size of various rectifiers.




Very nice picture. ..could you please write what kind of tube the third from left side and the last big one on the right side is.

Thank you


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> Does anyone know a good quality source for socket savers for the octal rectifiers in the Woo WA5 ?


 
  
 I use these - a little pricey for an octal socket saver, but excellent quality.
  
Link


----------



## isquirrel

moon2014 said:


> Very nice picture. ..could you please write what kind of tube the third from left side and the last big one on the right side is.
> 
> Thank you


 

 Third from left is the original RCA 5UR4, last big one is the full music 274B


----------



## BlakeT

My Langrex  Brimar 5Z4G (black base) order arrived and it is now burning in.
  
 It seems the consensus is that this tube doesn't require much, if any burn in.
  
 So, are we thinking 24 hours burn in before I A/B them against my Brimar U52 (which is well broken in)?
  
 I just want to make sure this is a fair fight.


----------



## San Raal

Looks as if other tube outlets are selling the Brimar 5Z4G on ebay, one has been sold at over 100 dollars for a single. But compared the the new production tubes its still not astronomically high.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-Brimar-5Z4GY-5Y3G-Black-round-plates-D-getter-Rectifier-tube-/171259631147?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27dfde962b


----------



## TonyNewman

blaket said:


> So, are we thinking 24 hours burn in before I A/B them against my Brimar U52 (which is well broken in)?


 
  
 I'd suggest giving them 50 hours, just to be sure. I don't notice much change in the Brimar during the first 50 hours, but my ears are not the best available instrument, if you know what I mean.


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> Looks as if other tube outlets are selling the Brimar 5Z4G on ebay, one has been sold at over 100 dollars for a single. But compared the the new production tubes its still not astronomically high.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-Brimar-5Z4GY-5Y3G-Black-round-plates-D-getter-Rectifier-tube-/171259631147?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27dfde962b


 
  
 The Psvane replica sells for 220 USD. This is a very good tube, but inferior to the Brimar in a number of ways.
  
 The mediocre EML mesh 274B goes for around 270 USD and is not even close to the Psvane, let alone the Brimar.
  
 I just received my bulk order of 6 Brimars direct from Langrex - 72 pounds total including postage to New Zealand. Best value tube bargain I have ever had (or heard of). Paint me happy.
  
 Unless you have bought a vintage WE300B for 10 bucks at a garage sale, it would be hard to beat the value proposition of the Brimars.


----------



## San Raal

The Psvane still has very good PRaT, is euphonic as well as being nicely balanced. But you are right in that nothing can match the value of the Brimar. To my ears the Psvane has slightly recessed mids compared to the Brimar, the Brimar has great dynamics.
  
 I need to contact Woo and see if the 5Z4G is going to be beefy enough to drive speakers on the WA5
  
 The EML is very smooth but too polite and lacking in dynamics compared to other rectifiers I've tried.
  
 My preference is still standing at
  
 1) WE 422A - amazing euphonic
 2) 5Z4G - dynamic - detail retrieval - amazing mids
 3) Psvane 274b - PRaT euphonic - amazing bass
  
 YMMV


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> The Psvane still has very good PRaT, is euphonic as well as being nicely balanced. But you are right in that nothing can match the value of the Brimar.
> 
> The EML is very smooth but too polite and lacking in dynamics compared to other rectifiers I've tried.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Psvane and Brimar are close, but the Brimar wins for me due to its better controlled bass (deeper and sharper - the Psvane can get muddy) and smoother and "airier" mids and treble.
  
 PSvane is still a good tube and I am keeping mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't think 220 USD is an unreasonable price for these - you get a lot of tube for the dosh.
  
 The EML is missing bass. It just isn't there compared to the PSvane or the Brimar. That is inexcusable on the part of EML - the most basic listening tests would tell them this, but they released the tube anyway. Then they add to the insult by charging 270 bucks for them.


----------



## San Raal

I love the bass on the Psvane, it contributes to a great PRaT that gets my toe tapping every time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah I thought after news broke on the Brimar that I had just sunk a big chunk of change. But I have EML mesh plate rectifiers Shuggy CV181 and even Mullard CV181 in the cupboard not used as they just didnt suit my sonic preference or didnt suit my amp.
  
 The Mullard Im laying down like a good wine, the EML I will sell on one day, though it might be tough if potential buyers read this post!


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> ...the EML I will sell on one day, though it might be tough if potential buyers read this post!


 
  
 I take it as part of the rough & tumble of tube rolling:
  
 Sometimes you find a sonic gem that makes you smile and love this hobby (Psvane replica).
  
 Sometimes you find something brown, smelly & expensive that makes you want to stab yourself in the face with a gardening implement (EML 274B).
  
 Rarely, you find something that combines quality & value in such a spectacular way that you want to get naked and dry hump your tube amp (Brimars).
  
 (P.S> please don't take that last one literally, people. Hot glass + high voltages + dry humping do not mix well).


----------



## Porteroso

Finally getting around to doing some a/b comparisons between the Brimar and Sophia, some interesting things of note. The Sophia is pretty widely considered to be one of the better tubes in the 274b in terms of soundstage, but what I find is that "wide" soundstage can be a combination of things. Listening at first, the Sophia did seem to have a wider soundstage, but after really listening several times back and forth, it's not actually wider than the Brimar, it just feels like it is, because of the sense of airiness it gets from lesser imaging.
  
 The Brimar separates things out better, and not only that, but finds a way to present conflicting timbres and tones as wholly separate entities, without intruding one upon the other. It almost forces my mind to choose which to pay attention to, but I find that it's easy to switch back and forth, which just tells me that both are being presented faithfully. And the other part of this is the depth of the soundstage, which I will liken to the imaging. It's partly the detail retrieval, and partly the imaging, that leads me to think that the soundstage on the Brimar might both go back further, and come up to the listener further, as well. I don't think this is actually the case, I think it's just a matter of separation/imaging, where in a recording, if something is engineered to be less detailed, it fades to the background, whereas things presented with grain and grit come to the foreground.
  
 Still, I have a new appreciation for the Sophia. It is a more laid back presentation, a little less detailed, a bit worse separation, but all this ends up presenting a more unified sound to the listener. It's a bit more 2d, and in that sense, a bit less fatiguing. Don't get me wrong, the Brimar is technically better in almost all respects, but whereas the Brimar almost forces me to listen to parts of the recording, as I try to critically listen, the Sophia almost forces me to sit back and just let the music wash over me. So purely in terms of soundstage, I won't really say the Brimar is better or worse, it just presents a different soundstage than the Sophia. They might be very similarly wide, but one has more depth and is a bit in your face, and the other is a less detailed, more unified presentation, sort of a wall of sound.
  
 I'm still new at this, so most of what I know about tubes, cans, and amps, I've just read. I'm always interested to read conflicting reviews of things, and what I figured before getting into all of it, is just that first, people's ears are different, second, their understanding of music is different, and third, most people aren't just lying here, they might not be objective, but they have a point with what they're saying.
  
 Same thing here. I can see why people love the Sophia, and why people say it's garbage after listening to more detailed tubes, but let me say this: if I was coming home after a long day, wanted to pour a nice, too-big glass of scotch, and just let sound filter into my ears, while thinking of something else, I might just take out the Brimar and put in the Sophia. She looks so sexy, anyways, and we're all kidding ourselves if we think the aesthetics in our life don't matter at all  One of the things that's stuck with me for a long time was when I gave my first college roomate a ride back home and met his dad, he was sort of drunk there, and for some reason, out of the blue, he looks at his wife and says, "boys, let me give you a piece of advice. Marry someone you can stand to look at for the rest of your life." She looked pretty good, so I think it was meant as a horny compliment, by the way. I'd love to think that what's inside matters most, but, well, he had a point. Enough said.
  
 However. In all other areas, the Brimar wins. There is a smoothness to the entire range that is difficult to pinpoint almost, because there are times that I hear every bit of grain in a voice, grain that I haven't heard before. The detail really just trumps all with the Brimar. And on the bass, I'm not really even sure if the Sophia has more, or if there's this slight mid-bass hump, or maybe it's all in my head because the rest of the range doesn't project outwards, and bass, by nature, moves and occupies air more than is projected into it. Certainly the Brimar is a bit better defined down low, and it might even extend deeper, I am not sure.
  
 But the Brimar wins, hands down. It is also a ton louder, by the way. I have to adjust the volume every time I switch, because it's very significantly louder. And it's louder in such a good way too, with all that detail retrieval, that even attempting to be critical, it was tempting to leave it just a bit louder because it sounds so good. I would imagine that this would make harder-to-drive headphones sound better by default, with the Brimar.
  
 Anyways, enough of this short essay. Back to listening.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Hey. Excellent review.
  
 Thanks for taking the time and effort to put your observations into words.
  
 Quote:


san raal said:


> Looks as if other tube outlets are selling the Brimar 5Z4G on ebay, one has been sold at over 100 dollars for a single. But compared the the new production tubes its still not astronomically high.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-Brimar-5Z4GY-5Y3G-Black-round-plates-D-getter-Rectifier-tube-/171259631147?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27dfde962b


 

 That is something different again.
  
 I noticed when the Brimar 5Z4GY's are sold on US ebay they demand big $$
  
 I discovered it originally by looking at ebay UK.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Hey. Excellent review.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had ordered a couple brown base Brimar 5Z4GY last friday night the 9th  before they jacked up the price on them and received them today the 13th now that's fast 4 days from U.K. guys at Langrex dont fool around neither does the British post  .


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> I had ordered a couple brown base Brimar 5Z4GY last friday night the 9th  before they jacked up the price on them and received them today the 13th now that's fast 4 days from U.K. guys at Langrex dont fool around neither does the British post  .


 
  
 Yeah I ordered 6 last week and another 6 this morning (I will have 14 in total. A lifetime supply). Because I was emailing before the rise they have held the price.
  
 Could you throw up a pic of the brown base? I asked for brown as well.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I had ordered a couple brown base Brimar 5Z4GY last friday night the 9th  before they jacked up the price on them and received them today the 13th now that's fast 4 days from U.K. guys at Langrex dont fool around neither does the British post  .
> ...


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Thanks for that.
  
 Looks Great. I like the brown base. Reminds me of Mullard GZ32.
  
 I remove the print on the front of mine.
  
 Looks great in your amp mate.


----------



## MIKELAP

Looks like its in a extender but its actually in a jewelers magnyfying glass. but thanks just the same


----------



## JohnBal

tonynewman said:


> I take it as part of the rough & tumble of tube rolling:
> 
> Sometimes you find a sonic gem that makes you smile and love this hobby (Psvane replica).
> 
> ...


 
 OMG. I'm rolling! That's great - LMAO!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice!!!
  
  
 Quote:


mikelap said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> The Psvane replica sells for 220 USD. This is a very good tube, but inferior to the Brimar in a number of ways.
> 
> The mediocre EML mesh 274B goes for around 270 USD and is not even close to the Psvane, let alone the Brimar.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 on that, just watch the prices climb now...


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> +1 on that, just watch the prices climb now...


 
  
 Yep - already started. Just ordered a second batch of 6 direct from Langrex - 87 pounds. First batch was 72 pounds.
  
 Still an outrageous bargain at either price.
  
 Latest batch will take me up to 16 Brimars - that might be enough even for an OCD tube monkey like me


----------



## TonyNewman

johnbal said:


> OMG. I'm rolling! That's great - LMAO!


 
  
 Even rectifiers can be funny if you apply enough perversion


----------



## magiccabbage

You guys are making an investment? Buy some for me ............. please


----------



## Badas

Tony,

Did you get any brown base versions yet?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony,
> 
> Did you get any brown base versions yet?


 
  
 The 10 I have right now are all black base. Is there a sonic difference between black and brown base?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The 10 I have right now are all black base. Is there a sonic difference between black and brown base?


 

 Nah. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just like the look of the brown base.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Nah.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If the 6 more I have coming are brown base I will let you know - happy to swap brown for black - I could care less what colour the base is - just give me that yummilicious SQ.


----------



## Stereolab42

All this Brimar love. Dat British engineering! Guess I'll just have to be happy with my nine Mighty 596s. Even though I'm afraid to actually use them because they really, really do have to last a lifetime now.


----------



## Khragon

Where are you guy buying these Brimars?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Where are you guy buying these Brimars?


 
  
 Because they are a top tier quality rectifier for a tiny price. The best value tube purchase I have ever seen (or heard about).


----------



## Khragon

I meant to ask where? I think I found it, I placed an order with an ebay vendor from the UK, $100/pair.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## bfreedma

tonynewman said:


> Because they are a top tier quality rectifier for a tiny price. The best value tube purchase I have ever seen (or heard about).


 
  
 Waiting on mine to arrive.
 A lot of tubes start out fairly inexpensive until they get the attention on Head-Fi.  I think the first few people who got in on the 596 purchased them for about what the Brimar is going for.
  
 You might be a Brimar thousandaire with the tubes you bought in a few years!


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> I meant to ask where? I think I found it, I placed an order with an ebay vendor from the UK, $100/pair.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 That is where I got my first two.
  
 If you go to Langrex direct you get them for GBP 18.50 each.


----------



## BlakeT

Wow, some of you folks are *really* stocking up!  It seems some of you have several lifetimes' worth of supply of these tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I assume everyone is turning off their tube amp after listening- right?  It would be silly to leave a tube amp on all time.
  
 Therefore, assuming a usable life span of 5,000 - 10,000 hours (?) for each tube, and figuring you may get an itch and purchase a different tube amp sometime in the next 5-10 years which may not use these same tube types, I personally don't see the point of buying that many tubes, but of course I have no problem with others collecting them.


----------



## Badas

blaket said:


> Wow, some of you folks are *really* stocking up!  It seems some of you have several lifetimes' worth of supply of these tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yip. I turn the amp off.
  
 Calculation is right 5,000 -10,000. I would probably do 1000 hours per year. So a tube every 4-5 years.
  
 So yeah. I'm stocking up. When I croak it I want to pass some tubes to my Son who already has taken a interest.


----------



## BlakeT

badas said:


> Yip. I turn the amp off.
> 
> Calculation is right 5,000 -10,000. I would probably do 1000 hours per year. So a tube every 4-5 years.
> 
> So yeah. I'm stocking up. When I croak it I want to pass some tubes to my Son who already has taken a interest.


 
  
 Ok, gotcha.  That makes sense.  I just started to worry that perhaps these tubes had a shorter life span that I had assumed.


----------



## Badas

blaket said:


> Ok, gotcha.  That makes sense.  I just started to worry that perhaps these tubes had a shorter life span that I had assumed.


 

 Oh, I forgot the other reason. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have some empty space in my tube draws. So I need to fill it up.


----------



## SoundApprentice

badas said:


> That is where I got my first two.
> 
> If you go to Langrex direct you get them for GBP 18.50 each.


 
 Wow, big price difference. Wish I had paid more attention to that. Well, mine is on the way, and hopefully it is all that you guys have made it out to be. I'm not too impressed with my SP, in fact, I think the new productions Genalex Gold Lion GZ34 is as good for $38, lol.


----------



## kchew

My 5Z4Gs from Langrex have arrived, however...
  

  
 ...one of them seems to have picked up a tropical disease on the way here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll give them a listen tomorrow, will give my impressions once they've clocked some hours.


----------



## isquirrel

kchew said:


> My 5Z4Gs from Langrex have arrived, however...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOl, I had the same thing on one of mine, it was breakout the toothbrush time


----------



## Badas

kchew said:


> My 5Z4Gs from Langrex have arrived, however...
> 
> 
> 
> ...







isquirrel said:


> LOl, I had the same thing on one of mine, it was breakout the toothbrush time




Exactly.

Both of mine had the White powder. I read somewhere months ago that it is common with military tubes from Europe. I think they said it was a type of talc to absorb moisture. To keep the pins dry in the tropics. 

I just brushed and cleaned mine and they operated great.


----------



## Bigsecret

I thought that was the rare spotted finish.


----------



## bfreedma

The big question is: does the spotted one sound better than the clean one?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My 5Z4G (no rash/brown base) arrived yesterday and first impressions are very good.  Seems similar to the 596 though I'll hold off on further comparisons until I've had a chance to listen longer.
  
 Thanks to Badas (I think) for digging these up out of the great tube vaults.  They are a huge bargain right now - I'm tempted to stock up the way some of you already have.


----------



## San Raal

kchew said:


> My 5Z4Gs from Langrex have arrived, however...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 3 of the 4 black base tubes I bought from Langrex had the same markings. From what I can tell this is either dry and long dead mould or paper that has disintegrated.
  
 Either way, it proves these are really NOS, not just NOS if you get my drift


----------



## San Raal

bfreedma said:


> The big question is: does the spotted one sound better than the clean one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting observation as to my ears on my system the Brimar 5Z4G sound nothing like the 596! The 596 have earth shattering bass and PRaT but are very very forward to the point I find fatiguing, the Brimar is more forward in the mids and more euphonic and an easy listen.


----------



## bfreedma

san raal said:


> Interesting observation as to my ears on my system the Brimar 5Z4G sound nothing like the 596!


 
  
 It was a quick listen to new tubes, so as originally stated, it may not stand up.
  
 What did you find to be different?  Not challenging you, just interested.
  
 Edit - I see you added the description to your post - Thanks.
 Edit2 - Looking at your profile, I wonder if much of the difference isn't the headphones used.  I listened with my LCD3s which probably present differently than what you have in your inventory.


----------



## San Raal

I've had a chance to briefly drive some nice Audionote AX1 speakers on the WA5 with both the Brimar 5Z4G and Psvane 274b this evening. It has to be said, the Psvane really do very well with speakers.
  
 My Psvane have 100 hours on them now and I really like rolling with this tube, having this, the Brimar and the WE422A is almost like a mood selector for the WA5  awesome stuff!


----------



## TonyNewman

kchew said:


> My 5Z4Gs from Langrex have arrived, however...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just means that the tube on the left has spent more time in sleazy Thai bars ...


----------



## San Raal

bfreedma said:


> It was a quick listen to new tubes, so as originally stated, it may not stand up.
> 
> What did you find to be different?  Not challenging you, just interested.
> 
> Edit - I see you added the description to your post - Thanks.


 
  
 Yes, I thought it wasn't fair to post that without explaining how I found them different.


----------



## bfreedma

san raal said:


> Yes, I thought it wasn't fair to post that without explaining how I found them different.


 
  
 I notice you have PS-1000s so we have those in common.  Once the Brimar breaks in a bit, I'll try that combo share my opinion.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## San Raal

bfreedma said:


> I notice you have PS-1000s so we have those in common.  Once the Brimar breaks in a bit, I'll try that combo share my opinion.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Yeah great pair of cans, my favorite, somewhat under appreciated but paired. coincidentally, with Brimar tubes and your onto a winner


----------



## bfreedma

san raal said:


> Yeah great pair of cans, my favorite, somewhat under appreciated but paired. coincidentally, with Brimar tubes and your onto a winner


 
  
 I've been thinking of upgrading from the 6-SE to the 5 which I see you have.  You aren't helping my wallet with those posts!


----------



## San Raal

bfreedma said:


> I've been thinking of upgrading from the 6-SE to the 5 which I see you have.  You aren't helping my wallet with those posts!


 
  
 If you do, try a pair of the Brimar 6SN7, or even nicer are the 1950's brown base Brimar CV1988 square getter. These tubes, synergise with the PS1000 very well. Just amazing.


----------



## San Raal

bfreedma said:


> It was a quick listen to new tubes, so as originally stated, it may not stand up.
> 
> What did you find to be different?  Not challenging you, just interested.
> 
> ...


 
  
 On the edit 2 I agree, different cans make a huge difference, I found the 596 just drilled a hole in my brain with the PS1000 top end. Though I'm the odd one out here, most folks love those tubes.


----------



## bfreedma

san raal said:


> If you do, try a pair of the Brimar 6SN7, or even nicer are the 1950's brown base Brimar CV1988 square getter. These tubes, synergise with the PS1000 very well. Just amazing.


 
  
 I just logged on to ask you that!  Thanks.  Any suggestions on lottery numbers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Or where my wallet just ran and hid?
  


san raal said:


> On the edit 2 I agree, different cans make a huge difference, I found the 596 just drilled a hole in my brain with the PS1000 top end. Though I'm the odd one out here, most folks love those tubes.


 
  
 Actually, I completely agree regarding the 596 and the PS-1000s. It's not a combination I ever enjoyed - just too much of everything and way, way forward.  Have you ever tried the 596 with LCD3s or another darker headphone?  Bet you the beverage of your choice that you would find it much more enjoyable than with the Grado's.


----------



## San Raal

bfreedma said:


> I just logged on to ask you that!  Thanks.  Any suggestions on lottery numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can get a nice pair of the Brimar 6SN7 for not a huge amount. The CV1988 I paid £130 (About $200) for and £70 ($110) for the black glass. On ebay.
  
 I did demo some LCD3 once and I agree with the dark sounding part, I either didn't have the 596 at the time or didn't think to try them, but ill keep that combo in mind ty


----------



## Badas

Woohoo. Received my first lot of 6 Brimars from Langrex today. All brown base. 6 more to come (second shipment) then I have a lifetimes supply.
  
 It is solid brown base. Not brown and black. It is just a crappy photo.


----------



## Badas

Better pics of the Brown base Brimar.
  


  
 The advantage of running a label company. I can have my own brand labels printed and always put them on the front facing forward. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The Brimar I removed had 70-100 hours on it. So I took a critical listen to see what the changes were. Not a lot. These are good to go straight away. You get the magic right from the start. A big plus for this tube. I just noted a very slight harshness to the treble which had mellowed on my older tube. That's all.


----------



## vphan

Badas,that Brimar brown base looks so nice. I'm still waiting for mine. 

Just got this baby in the mail. Can't wait to try it out


----------



## Badas

vphan said:


> Badas,that Brimar brown base looks so nice. I'm still waiting for mine.
> 
> Just got this baby in the mail. Can't wait to try it out


 
  
 Wow. 422A. It is still the king. Enjoy.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Wow. 422A. It is still the king. Enjoy.


 
  
 I am looking forward to hearing from someone who can compare the Takatsuki 274B and WE422A. If threre is a tube that can knock the king off the rectificaiton pedestal, the Takatsuki would be it.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I am looking forward to hearing from someone who can compare the Takatsuki 274B and WE422A. If threre is a tube that can knock the king off the rectificaiton pedestal, the Takatsuki would be it.


 
  
 Actually he will eventually have Brimar 5Z4G and WE422A. I would be interest in how close the Brimar gets.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Actually he will eventually have Brimar 5Z4G and WE422A. I would be interest in how close the Brimar gets.


 
 I think there is feedback from someone already on this thread or the Woo owners thread - the Brimar is very, very good and definitely a top tier player, but the WE422A still has it beat.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I think there is feedback from someone already on this thread or the Woo owners thread - the Brimar is very, very good and definitely a top tier player, but the WE422A still has it beat.


 

 Given the price. It is good enough for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Given the price. It is good enough for me.


 
  
 It is stunning value. Simply stunning.
  
 Top tier performance for less than the price of stock shuguang 274B (which sucks huge buckets of rancid rat droppings).


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> It is stunning value. Simply stunning.
> 
> Top tier performance for less than the price of stock *shuguang 274B (which sucks huge buckets of rancid rat droppings).*


----------



## magiccabbage

got my brimars today - just waiting on the other tubes to arrive. 
  
 Now - should I just try the brimars with the stock 300b's and rectifiers in my WA5 or wait?
 What do you guys think?


----------



## San Raal

magiccabbage said:


> got my brimars today - just waiting on the other tubes to arrive.
> 
> Now - should I just try the brimars with the stock 300b's and rectifiers in my WA5 or wait?
> What do you guys think?


 
  
 Get them stuck in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Reading other comments here, I think that the Brimar is a serious contender for "Rectifier of the people"  Everyone can roll in the magic!


----------



## San Raal

tonynewman said:


> I am looking forward to hearing from someone who can compare the Takatsuki 274B and WE422A. If threre is a tube that can knock the king off the rectificaiton pedestal, the Takatsuki would be it.


 
  
 +1


----------



## magiccabbage

They are nice tubes - nice and bright looking. You guys have to burn them in - notice any changes after that?
  
 I have "Graceland" pumping at the mo


----------



## magiccabbage

couple of hours on the Brimars now  - sound is lovely. Hearing the bass people are talking bout. I am still using stock 300b and drivers for the WA5 because the other tubes have not arrived yet but the sound has still improved noticeably for the better
  
 These are sooo much quieter than the stock woo rect - shuaguan 274's are noisy little feckers!


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> ...
> These are sooo much quieter than the stock woo rect - shuaguan 274's are noisy little feckers!


 
  
 Best tool to fix the stock rectifier is one of these applied with extreme prejudice.


----------



## Badas

magiccabbage said:


> got my brimars today - just waiting on the other tubes to arrive.
> 
> Now - should I just try the brimars with the stock 300b's and rectifiers in my WA5 or wait?
> What do you guys think?


 
  
 Yip. Throw them in. Way better than stock and sound great from the first minute. After 50 hours or so a tiny bit of treble harshness mellows. Not talking much. I found the treble is the sweetest I have heard from brand new rectifiers.


san raal said:


> Get them stuck in!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


tonynewman said:


> Best tool to fix the stock rectifier is one of these applied with extreme prejudice.


 
  
 Agreed.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Best tool to fix the stock rectifier is one of these applied with extreme prejudice.


 

 Ha ha, they managed to blow the a fuse on my amp within 2 hours. Thats a record.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Ha ha, they managed to blow the a fuse on my amp within 2 hours. Thats a record.


 
  
 Another reason to bin the stock tubes with all speed. Horrid, horrid things.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I am looking forward to hearing from someone who can compare the Takatsuki 274B and WE422A. If threre is a tube that can knock the king off the rectificaiton pedestal, the Takatsuki would be it.


 

 Just might have some news there shortly, currently trying to buy a good pair of WE422A's from a deceased estate, should know by the weekend.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Just might have some news there shortly, currently trying to buy a good pair of WE422A's from a deceased estate, should know by the weekend.


 
  
 Good luck - hope you get a good price. Those things can go for insane nutter money.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Good luck - hope you get a good price. Those things can go for insane nutter money.


 
 Trying to do some research on the pricing, what have you seen them go for?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Trying to do some research on the pricing, what have you seen them go for?


 
  
 On Ebarf - a few months ago I saw an auction with a starting price of around 2K for a pair. Not sure where the auction ended as I wasn't bidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not as silly as WE300B pricing, but getting there.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Just popped back to thread after a long time, aren't your 'Brimar 5Z4GYs' actually STCs....? They certainly look like it to me!


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


> Just popped back to thread after a long time, aren't your 'Brimar 5Z4GYs' actually STCs....? They certainly look like it to me!


 
  
 Indeed.
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/587285/woo-audio-wa6-wa6se-tubes-comments-pictures-and-advice/1875#post_11256041


----------



## TonyNewman

nic rhodes said:


> Just popped back to thread after a long time, aren't your 'Brimar 5Z4GYs' actually STCs....? They certainly look like it to me!


 
  
 Might be. All I really care about is the SQ vs Price equation - and on that score the Brimar/STC is the best thing I have seen so far in HeadFi.


----------



## MIKELAP

tonynewman said:


> nic rhodes said:
> 
> 
> > Just popped back to thread after a long time, aren't your 'Brimar 5Z4GYs' actually STCs....? They certainly look like it to me!
> ...


 
 STC?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Seems I am not the only one to Spot the FE code! STC I think were associated with WE and are a great make eventually associated with other names. The problem with recommending 'brimars' is that you may also get a poor Russian version also labelled as Brimar. The Langrex look fine atm but someone reading this in a year may fall foul.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> STC?


 

 I agree. What is STC?


----------



## Oskari

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Standard_Telephones_and_Cables
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brimar


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Standard Telephones and Cables Ltd. 1883 Western Electric opened office in London and this developed... bought by ITT in 1925 I think but carried on using the WE tech. Eventually became 'Brimar' with factorries at Footscray, Paighton, Rochester, Crewkerne, Harlow and Oldway (and might also have been Lorentz, Germany). Eventually sold to Thorn EMI I think....If you want a UK 300B look for the STC 4300B  Good UK firm and big military supplier but the STC name used extensive throughout.
  
 edit: I hope my stuff agrees with above! Glass of wine...


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Standard_Telephones_and_Cables
> http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brimar


 
  
  


nic rhodes said:


> Standard Telephones and Cables Ltd. 1883 Western Electric opened office in London and this developed... bought by ITT in 1925 I think but carried on using the WE tech. Eventually became 'Brimar' with factorries at Footscray, Paighton, Rochester, Crewkerne, Harlow and Oldbury (and might also have been Lorentz, Germany). Eventually sold to Thorn EMI I think....If you want a UK 300B look for the STC 4300B  Good UK firm and big military supplier but the STC name used extensive throughout.
> 
> edit: I hope my stuff agrees with above! Glass of wine...


 

 Interesting. Thanks guys.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

sorry Oldway not Oldbury. It is the FE written on the valves that gives it away.


----------



## Oskari

One could regard Brimar as STC's tube division for the consumer market, although Brimar made receiving tubes for other markets, including lots of CV types. STC itself made the big stuff, but also some receiving tubes. STC sold Brimar to Thorn in 1960. In 1961 Thorn merged their tube interests, including CRTs, with those of AEI forming Thorn-AEI.
  
 Brimar's home location was the STC site in Footscray. Under Thorn-AEI the site in Rochester became Brimar's main site while Footscray remained an STC site. The STC Paignton sites ("Paignton" and "Oldway" tube manufacturing sites) were unaffected. These were not Brimar locations.


----------



## LANGREX

*Hi,*
  
*This is James from Langrex, thank you for all the positive posts on these tubes, we have had 5Z4G's in our stock since the early 80's.*
*They were bought directly from the Government. The 5Z4GY and 5Z4G AD or FE tubes we have in stock are identical, the Y was added to the part number for a later military contract. We also have a large stock of the earlier 5Z4G tubes in earlier brown military style boxes by STC, these may also be worth a try, I will add these to Ebay and post a picture of these later today.*
*Stock levels are depleting, there is a lot of interest from the Far east and we are presently preparing an order for 1000 of these tubes for one customer.*
  
*Thank you again for your positive posts and we hope you enjoy your tubes.*
*Feel free to email me with any questions. jamesatlangrex@aol.com *
  
*Best regards*
  
*James*
*Langrex*


----------



## LANGREX

langrex said:


> *Hi,*
> 
> *This is James from Langrex, thank you for all the positive posts on these tubes, we have had 5Z4G's in our stock since the early 80's.*
> *They were bought directly from the Government. The 5Z4GY and 5Z4G AD or FE tubes we have in stock are identical, the Y was added to the part number for a later military contract. We also have a large stock of the earlier 5Z4G tubes in earlier brown military style boxes by STC, these may also be worth a try, I will add these to Ebay and post a picture of these later today.*
> ...









[/IMG]
These are the earlier type 5Z4G tubes from 1953-1955 they have the military banded bases which were added to the tubes strengthen the join of the base to the glass. These will be listed on eBay shortly.


----------



## LANGREX

EBAY LISTING NUMBER 271764949824


----------



## MIKELAP

Meanwhile prices keep going up lol


----------



## bfreedma

mikelap said:


> Meanwhile prices keep going up lol


 
  
 Kind of to be expected given the overwhelmingly positive reception to the SQ and price.  I just bought another 4 directly from Langrex before they go up again.


----------



## JohnBal

This price is also in line with the 5Z4GY he has listed on ebay which is significantly higher than that listed on his own web site. So maybe Langrex would be listing on his page for a lower price?? Whadaya think James?


----------



## bfreedma

johnbal said:


> This price is also in line with the 5Z4GY he has listed on ebay which is significantly higher than that listed on his own web site. So maybe Langrex would be listing on his page for a lower price?? Whadaya think James?


 
  
 Can't speak to the military version, but the standard 5Z4GY is definitely cheaper directly from Langrex than the Ebay listing.


----------



## LANGREX

bfreedma said:


> Can't speak to the military version, but the standard 5Z4GY is definitely cheaper directly from Langrex than the Ebay listing.




Website price is 18.50 + vat which is added at checkout.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Nice of you to chime in. The Brimar 5Z4G is a fantastic tube and you guys gave me great service.
  
 Now I need to try a set of those Mullard 6080 power tubes you have.
  

  
  
 Look like these have the darker black plates as well.


----------



## bfreedma

^^^^

As many 5Z4GYs you've helped sell, Langrex should consider selling those to you at a nice discount


----------



## Badas

bfreedma said:


> ^^^^
> 
> As many 5Z4GYs you've helped sell, Langrex should consider selling those to you at a nice discount


 
  
 Yeah. Actually they looked after me well. I was able to grab 14 before the price went up.
  
 Actually I just spread the word to help you guys out. I knew it was something better than the other rectifiers I have tried (Mullard GZ32 and Fivre 5R4GY) in the first 5 minutes of listening.
 Sending a spare over to Tony to evaluate and confirm what I was hearing got the ball rolling.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yeah. Actually they looked after me well. I was able to grab 14 before the price went up.
> 
> Actually I just spread the word to help you guys out. I knew it was something better than the other rectifiers I have tried (Mullard GZ32 and Fivre 5R4GY) in the first 5 minutes of listening.
> Sending a spare over to Tony to evaluate and confirm what I was hearing got the ball rolling.


 
  
 I have 16 of the buggers. That's not obsessive, is it?


----------



## LANGREX

badas said:


> Yeah. Actually they looked after me well. I was able to grab 14 before the price went up.
> 
> Actually I just spread the word to help you guys out. I knew it was something better than the other rectifiers I have tried (Mullard GZ32 and Fivre 5R4GY) in the first 5 minutes of listening.
> Sending a spare over to Tony to evaluate and confirm what I was hearing got the ball rolling.


----------



## LANGREX

Again, thank you for your great review, I know you want to try the Mullard 6080 tubes, let me know and I will send you some samples


----------



## bfreedma

badas said:


> Yeah. Actually they looked after me well. I was able to grab 14 before the price went up.
> 
> Actually I just spread the word to help you guys out. I knew it was something better than the other rectifiers I have tried (Mullard GZ32 and Fivre 5R4GY) in the first 5 minutes of listening.
> Sending a spare over to Tony to evaluate and confirm what I was hearing got the ball rolling.




Good to hear. I was only kidding about a discount.

I ordered 4 more after the first one lived up to the buzz (bad choice of word for tubes ), so thanks again for sharing the find. It's close, but I still prefer the 596 for most headphones though for the price of the 5Z4GY, it's a steal and should be in everyone's tube collection. 

If I ran Woo Audio, I would seriously consider using the Brimar as the stock tube instead of the horrid rectifier they currently ship in new amps.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I have 16 of the buggers. That's not obsessive, is it?


 
  
 Absolutely it is. However that is cool and okay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





langrex said:


> Again, thank you for your great review, I know you want to try the Mullard 6080 tubes, let me know and I will send you some samples


 
  
 No worries about the review. Thanks for the great product and service. You guys are the best supplier I have found.
  
 Sample tubes. Cool. I will take you up on that very kind offer.


bfreedma said:


> Good to hear. I was only kidding about a discount.
> 
> I ordered 4 more after the first one lived up to the buzz (bad choice of word for tubes
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. If they had that Brimar in their amps at the trade shows they would get more orders.


----------



## bfreedma

langrex said:


> Again, thank you for your great review, I know you want to try the Mullard 6080 tubes, let me know and I will send you some samples





Welcome to Head-FI James!

Do you have an physical storefront or is Langrex internet only? I'll be in Portsmouth sometime in the first half of the year and would love to stop in if you're open to the public.


----------



## MIKELAP

bfreedma said:


> langrex said:
> 
> 
> > Again, thank you for your great review, I know you want to try the Mullard 6080 tubes, let me know and I will send you some samples
> ...


 
 Say hi when in Portsmouth to the HMS Victory for me building her as we speak


----------



## LANGREX

bfreedma said:


> Welcome to Head-FI James!
> 
> Do you have an physical storefront or is Langrex internet only? I'll be in Portsmouth sometime in the first half of the year and would love to stop in if you're open to the public.




Not a store front as such, but happy for you to come in and see us, just give us a call when you would like to visit, about an hour from Portsmouth


----------



## Audioclyde

James, do you have treasures like this in the 5U4/cv378/53ku family?

Thanks,

Randy


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Say hi when in Portsmouth to the HMS Victory for me building her as we speak


 
  
 Nice! One of fondest memories of being in the UK was visiting the historic port and going inside the Victory and Warrior. Great experience.
  
 (apologies for going OT).


----------



## San Raal

I live 45 minutes away from Portsmouth. Though I'm ashamed to have never visited Nelsons 104
  
 Welcome to headfi James.


----------



## San Raal

I think we are seeing here the birth of a new popular tube type, and the price rise is a natural thing. Stock up because the prices will continue to go up.


----------



## LANGREX

*Hi,*
  
*We have:*
  
*U52 NOS BOXED MWT BROWN BASED WITH MWT STICKERS 10-12pcs MATCHING DATE CODES*
  
*U52/5U4G/CV1071 GEC GOVERNMENT BOXED GEC STICKERS 12pcs MATCHING DATE CODES - Listed on ebay*
  
*GZ37/CV378 MULLARD NOS GOVERNMENT BOXED (100+ pcs) *
  
*Obviously these are quite highly price, I will happily quote you.*
  
*We have a large stock of UU5/CV1039 Mullard which is another very good rectifier, although has a British 4 pin base.*
  
*All of the large quantities we had in the octal type rectifiers have all been sold and I am talking thousands, the 5Z4G is*
*pretty much the only octal type NOS rectifier we still have available and believe this is the only stash of these worldwide.*
*I am thinking the price should be at least 30.00GBP in the very near future and probably will 100.00GBP by the time stock levels *
*are low. *
  
*Regards,*
  
*James*


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so much tube hoarding....


----------



## San Raal




----------



## Badas

langrex said:


> *All of the large quantities we had in the octal type rectifiers have all been sold and I am talking thousands, the 5Z4G is*
> *pretty much the only octal type NOS rectifier we still have available and believe this is the only stash of these worldwide.*
> *I am thinking the price should be at least 30.00GBP in the very near future and probably will 100.00GBP by the time stock levels *
> *are low. *
> ...







san raal said:


>




You guys are making me want to get another 6 Brimars. 

Can anyone guess how long these 5z4's will last? In a tube amp I mean not stock.


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## San Raal

Received a pair of the new black plate 5Z4G from Langrex, also took a chance at the Mullard brown base GZ30 at 20 quid a pop it was worth the roll. Have the GZ30 in the WA5 right now with B36 and TA300b and like what I'm hearing so far - very dynamic, great with 80's music anyway. Kenny Loggins is taking me to the "Danger Zone"


----------



## JohnBal

san raal said:


> Received a pair of the new black plate 5Z4G from Langrex, also took a chance at the Mullard brown base GZ30 at 20 quid a pop it was worth the roll. Have the GZ30 in the WA5 right now with B36 and TA300b and like what I'm hearing so far - very dynamic, great with 80's music anyway. *Kenny Loggins is taking me to the "Danger Zone*"


 
 Wow. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and yes, I am dangerous!)


----------



## jhljhl

Brimar 5z4g from Langrex.  Quick initial impression in a csp2+.  Sounds like a more dynamic mullard gz37 - but tighter bass, quicker in decay and attack.  Nevertheless the Mullard sounds a little more refined and well balanced.  Mazda 5y3 is more laid back -less upfront - and warmer loss of attack and decay and imaging - murkier some might say instead of warmer but some may prefer this for a more background listening experience.


----------



## Zub-a-Roo

Still interested in hearing comparisons to U52 and WE422a.


----------



## jhljhl

I posted this on decware but it bears repeating.  In a Taboo MKIII - I would say the Brimar 5z4 can be perceived as transparent dynamic quick attack and decay with strong generally defined bass.  This is in comparison to the Mullard gz37 skinny bottle.  However one might instead prefer the Mullard over the Brimar and consider it more balanced and refined.  For the price, I am glad to have bought one from Langrex.  It has still not been burned in yet so still may improve further. 
  
 I would choose the Taboo over the WA6se for LCD3f.  The WA6se sounds like it has more power - dynamic attack but it does not feel as euphoric as the Taboo.  I would choose the WA22 over the Taboo.  I think it is a middle ground between dynamics and euphoric sound and does well with dynamic headphones as well.  All are good amps but depends on your preferred signature.  The Cavalli LAu does dynamic with transparency and euphoric very well.
  
 The Sophia Princess 274b mesh plate that is offered as an upgrade for Woo amps is really good in the Decware Taboo MKIII.  However, I understand that using the Sophia in the Taboo may shorten tube life more quickly.  Nevertheless, I'd consider it one of the best rectifiers for the Taboo.  It is transparent dynamic with tight somewhat punchy bass without losing too much top sparkle and euphoric - well balanced.  There is less of a warm veil with this rectifier for some reason as well. It kind of reminds me of when I first heard an HD650 through a bottlehead amp.  I highly recommend it with the caution about the tube life.


----------



## jhljhl

> *British tube made by GEC/MWT/Marconi/Osram, etc.* I've also seen it branded under Mullard or Brimar. It should be compatible with most 5U4G amps (I have confirmed compatible with Woo WA22 and Stratus).  Mine has grey plates but I've also seen black plates as well as black base versions of this tube. Compared to the Western Electric 422A, I think this would be the second best rectifier tube available. Performance is almost the same as the Western Electric 422A, perhaps only being a little warmer and having a more euphonic tone/timbre/decay. However, it maintains its speed, transparency, layering, soundstage, and imaging. Like the WE422A, it's pretty much nearly perfect in every way and maintains a sort of *neutrality throughout. Warm tube sound but with extended air and treble, great staging, deep bass extension, very nice texture and decay as well*. Absolutely zero grain with this tube, just like the WE422A, one of the best tubes out there! Sound-wise, it's very similar and shares the same British tone and sound signature of the GEC 6AS7G power tubes. Great synergy with Sennheiser HD 800. Just like the WE422A, this tube can really bring you to tears on the right music, so much magic in the sound of legendary tubes. Price is slightly cheaper than the 422A but similarly priced with tubes going for $350-500$ a piece.
> *Metal base 5AR4 made by Mullard/Philips (Miniwatt) /Amperex* (Bugle Boy logo) in the 1950s before it got replaced by the black base version which is much more common and not as good sounding. This ranks amongst the best tubes I own and I would place it in the top tier with the WE422A, U52, Cossor GZ37. What I really like about this tube is the cool tonality it has while maintaining tube euphony and inherent warmth. Along with this coolness (think of a minty cool kind-of sound), it has a very liquid-like decay and grain free presentation. *Transparent, great clarity and treble extension. The midrange is quite neutral as well, having a nice slightly forward presentation while maintaining a good soundstage and image. Timbre remains natural as well as the decay. *This tube is very dynamic as well, having some of the best dynamics of any tube. Want to make your amp more neutral and more SS like, while maintaining tube goodness? This is the tube for you! Bass is also amazing having a clean decay, good texture, and deep extension. A nice mid-bass punch as well adds to the fun-factor this tube has. Great for rock, pop, and just about any music in general. Got a slightly sluggish amp or using warmer headphones like planars or Sennheiser HD 650? This is the tube for you! *Liquid, liquid, liquid minty coolness*, that's about the best way I can describe this tube. Unfortunately, this tube is getting quite rare and hard to find. It often sells for around $350-$500 NOS and sometimes up to $700-$800 for NIB! The Western Electric 422A might be a better buy at those prices. Anyways, this tube is definitely worth trying out! Also to note, this tube is supposed to have a huge lifespan, many lasting for over 40 years  in use and anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000, and even 100,000 hours! Now I'm not sure how long exactly they will last, but these just about last forever!


 
  
 I agree with dubstep girl.  Holographic - "liquid minty coolness":  about the metal gz34.
  
 And the U52 is warm I think also in a visual sense as oppose to tactile: when describing the sound as warm.  Meaning it isn't syrupy - i.e. thick, coating.  By describing as more visually warm it means more in a glowing sense; i.e, not thick.  I guess one could say warm but transparent.  Or remarkably both warm and transparent. (Cavalli LAu is like that.)
 I prefer the sound signature of the gz34 if I had to choose.  But they are great complimentary tubes.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I know it is smaller than the other rectifiers here (just a bit less current capability than a 5Y3) but has anyone any experiece of 5W4GTs? They seem silly cheap even for great examples like National / Tung Sol and for headphone amplifers they might have a place (low heater current also for a rectifier). Plenty available also.


----------



## BlakeT

blaket said:


> Dennis Had is the founder of Cary Audio (he sold the company and is now semi-retired and making tube amps now for fun).  I sent an email to Dennis asking him whether I could use the 5Z4G in my Dennis Had IHA-1 Dragon Inspire tube amp.  His reply:
> 
> 
> "Blake:
> ...


 

 I just realized I never got around to comparing my Brimar U52 to my Brimar 5Z4GY.  Without getting into too much detail, the U52 beats the 5Z4GY IMHO.  The U52 sounds more refined and nuanced and 3D, more realistic. However, I suspect only the truly addicted hifi nuts (like me) would be willing to pay the steep price increase for the U52 compared to Langrex's pricing on the 5Z4G.  
  
 This is not to detract at all from the 5Z4GY, its one heck of a tube.  The fact that Langrex sells them so cheap is icing on the cake.  
  
 But, in the end U52 is the tube for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

blaket said:


> I just realized I never got around to comparing my Brimar U52 to my Brimar 5Z4GY.  Without getting into too much detail, the U52 beats the 5Z4GY IMHO.  The U52 sounds more refined and nuanced and 3D, more realistic. However, I suspect only the truly addicted hifi nuts (like me) would be willing to pay the steep price increase for the U52 compared to Langrex's pricing on the 5Z4G.
> 
> This is not to detract at all from the 5Z4GY, its one heck of a tube.  The fact that Langrex sells them so cheap is icing on the cake.
> 
> But, in the end U52 is the tube for me.


 
  
 Thank you for posting that comparison.
  
 That puts the Brimar about where I expected - just outside the top tier - but very close. Amazing value for money tube.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

blaket said:


> I just realized I never got around to comparing my Brimar U52 to my Brimar 5Z4GY.  Without getting into too much detail, the U52 beats the 5Z4GY IMHO.  The U52 sounds more refined and nuanced and 3D, more realistic. However, I suspect only the truly addicted hifi nuts (like me) would be willing to pay the steep price increase for the U52 compared to Langrex's pricing on the 5Z4G.
> 
> This is not to detract at all from the 5Z4GY, its one heck of a tube.  The fact that Langrex sells them so cheap is icing on the cake.
> 
> But, in the end U52 is the tube for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

Anyone with experience of both the WE422A and TA274B that can give some impressions?
  
 The Takatsuki 274B is around a grand a tube - does it compare with the best of the best? Inquiring minds want to know


----------



## San Raal

tonynewman said:


> Anyone with experience of both the WE422A and TA274B that can give some impressions?
> 
> The Takatsuki 274B is around a grand a tube - does it compare with the best of the best? Inquiring minds want to know


 

 +1


----------



## whirlwind

Thinking about pulling the trigger on a GZ37 for my Glenn OTL........where is the best place to grab one of these....NOS


----------



## Badas

whirlwind said:


> Thinking about pulling the trigger on a GZ37 for my Glenn OTL........where is the best place to grab one of these....NOS


 

 It depends on what version. Langrex has the Mullard brown base however you need to contact for the price. Upscale Audio has the Philips brown base.
  
 Edit: Actually checked Upscale. Philips are gone. Mullard $159.
  
 Have you tried the Brimar 5Z4GY?


----------



## whirlwind

No....but it will not work in Glenns OTL.....I believe Glenn said that this tube would die in his amp.
  
 Maybe i will contact Langrex


----------



## gibosi

In the relatively short time I have been watching these, all the GZ37 I have seen were manufactured by Mullard, regardless of the silk-screened brand. Further, I have seen Mullard-made GZ37 designated as 53KU and CV378. And to make things a bit more interesting, I have seen Mullard-made GZ33 also designated as 53KU and CV378. Thus, I always recommend that you examine the Philip's tube codes before you buy so that you know exactly what you will be getting.


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> In the relatively short time I have been watching these, all the GZ37 I have seen were manufactured by Mullard, regardless of the silk-screened brand. Further, I have seen Mullard-made GZ37 designated as 53KU and CV378. And to make things a bit more interesting, I have seen Mullard-made GZ33 also designated as 53KU and CV378. Thus, I always recommend that you examine the Philip's tube codes before you buy so that you know exactly what you will be getting.


 
  
 Yeah, that can get kind of confusing  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 gibosi....do you have a GZ37 for your Glenn amp ?


----------



## gibosi

Yes, I currently have GZ32, GZ33 and GZ37. However, I haven't gotten around to compare them yet. As we can't run the Brimar 5Z4GY in the Glenn, I am keeping the GZ32 in as a default, per DSG's evaluation, until I can spend more time with the GZ33 and GZ37.


----------



## Stereolab42

Some smart dude has a large collection of 596's and is dribbling them out over a long period of time:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-NOS-NIB-United-Electronics-596-rectifier-tubes-/301550341985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4635cd0f61
  
 (Search completed listings, people are actually paying these prices.)


----------



## Porteroso

Is that not an insanely good price for a matched pair of those?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

gibosi said:


> In the relatively short time I have been watching these, all the GZ37 I have seen were manufactured by Mullard, regardless of the silk-screened brand. Further, I have seen Mullard-made GZ37 designated as 53KU and CV378. And to make things a bit more interesting, I have seen Mullard-made GZ33 also designated as 53KU and CV378. Thus, I always recommend that you examine the Philip's tube codes before you buy so that you know exactly what you will be getting.


 

  You missed the tubes dual marked as GZ33 / GZ37  Easier to  think of all of these as either fat bottle (MOV) or thin bottle (Mullard).


----------



## punit

badas said:


> Have you tried the Brimar 5Z4GY?


 
 Too wimpy to be used in Glenn OTL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Cannot handle the current draw, will blow up.


----------



## San Raal

porteroso said:


> Is that not an insanely good price for a matched pair of those?


 
  
 I purchased 6 of them at $50 a pair. Word on these boards causes popularity to soar and the tube trolls catch on and BAM! the price rockets.


----------



## derkonstrukteur

Dubstep Girl,
 3 weeks ago I received my Woo Audio WA6 and based on your thread I purchased 2 RCA 5U4G (ribbed plates), great tubes. Also I was wondering if you had any experience with a Bendix 6106.Thank you.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here heard the the 596 rectifier and compared it to the brimars from langrex? 
  
 I am thinking of buying a pair of 596's but am wondering if they will be an improvement over the brimars? 
  
  
 Also - Has anyone heard both AVVT 300b super linear and if so would these be an improvement over the EML 300b mesh? 
  
  
 Paddy


----------



## MIKELAP

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard the the 596 rectifier and compared it to the brimars from langrex?
> 
> I am thinking of buying a pair of 596's but am wondering if they will be an improvement over the brimars?
> 
> ...


 
 That would be interesting to know ,if you check out at the beginning the 596 compared the RK 60 not that much of a difference it seems it depends on what one prefers and some liked the RK60 better .The brimar you are refering to is the 5Z4GY i have those and the RK 60 and if thats any indication on how much better the 596 are well i just saved myself several hundreds.


----------



## jhljhl

I think the 596 is better than brimar 5z4 because of wider sound stage from a clearer/airier presentation while still having bass impact. 5z4 sounds warmer with more bass slam while there is some imaging issues.  I would get a brimar u52 for not that much more than 596+adapter.


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> I think the 596 is better than brimar 5z3 because of wider sound stage from a clearer/airier presentation while still having bass impact. 5z3 sounds warmer with more bass slam while there is some imaging issues.  I would get a brimar u52 for not that much more than 596+adapter.


 
 If you could use a percentage on how much better you think the 596's are compared  the Brimar 5Z4GY how much would it be .


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


> If you could use a percentage on how much better you think the 596's are compared  the Brimar 5Z4GY how much would it be .


 

 I think both tubes are good enough it is more about which sound signature you prefer.  I think I just prefer the 596 generally but I use Brimar for bass slam rock as some would for edm.  Brimar is good for price but I would not buy if it were as much as says mullard 5ar4 are going these days.  I would not pay more than what they are being sold for now at Langrex.  Brimar would be really good if it just imaged a little better I think.
  
 I think the real deal at langrex is the mullard 6080.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I think both tubes are good enough it is more about which sound signature you prefer.  I think I just prefer the 596 generally but I use Brimar for bass slam rock as some would for edm.  Brimar is good for price but I would not buy if it were as much as says mullard 5ar4 are going these days.  I would not pay more than what they are being sold for now at Langrex.  Brimar would be really good if it just imaged a little better I think.
> 
> I think the real deal at langrex is the mullard 6080.




I have the Langrex Mullard 6080. Unfortunately I have noise issues. One tube will just not go quiet with burn in. It seems to do a lot very nice and not a lot wrong. I just disreguard because I of noise.


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > If you could use a percentage on how much better you think the 596's are compared  the Brimar 5Z4GY how much would it be .
> ...


 
 Well is imaging just a little better worth paying 5 or 6 times more for a tube or is it more for bragging writes people pay crazy money for these ?


----------



## Porteroso

That's the problem with a lot of the high tier tubes now, you have to be creative to justify their cost over the Brimar. I would love to get ahold of one of the end tier rectifiers, but the astronomical pricing kills me.


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


> Well is imaging just a little better worth paying 5 or 6 times more for a tube or is it more for bragging writes people pay crazy money for these ?


 
  
 For me, the u52 and metal gz34 are really good.  Especially the latter.  I have not heard the 422a.  But I agree with dubstep girl on her impressions I wrote in an earlier post especially that the metal gz34 is holographic.  So I'm sure I'll agree with her about the 422a.  So want to try one.
  
 Depends on budget. If you ask someone with a Ferarri is it good? Then ask is it worth the price?  The latter depends on anyone's budget.  But the first question is like saying is it as good as they say it is? And I say for me -metal gz34- yes.  At say $300 or less (for me).  Yes.
  
 596 + adapter for $150. Mmmm...Ok. But at $100-120 sure.  The Brimar 5z4 at $30 shipped.  Sure.  Since tube rolling is about getting different sounds so...
  
 But after having tried all these tubes and if I were forced to sell some off: I'd just keep the u52 and metal gz34.


----------



## magiccabbage

thanks for the feedback on the 596's guys


----------



## San Raal

mikelap said:


> If you could use a percentage on how much better you think the 596's are compared  the Brimar 5Z4GY how much would it be .


 
  
 To my ears that sentence is the wrong way around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you didn't ask me so ill say no more!


----------



## jhljhl

I think it's important to note my application of these rectifiers is a csp2+, taboo II and III and wa22.


----------



## MIKELAP

san raal said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > If you could use a percentage on how much better you think the 596's are compared  the Brimar 5Z4GY how much would it be .
> ...


 
 Personnally i wouldnt expect the 596 to blow me away if i compared it to the other tubes but what's your take on it .


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> To my ears that sentence is the wrong way around
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's kind of hard to argue against the value proposition of the Brimar. Top tier performance for bargain-basement pricing.
  
 I'll take a big sack of that any day


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> It's kind of hard to argue against the value proposition of the Brimar. Top tier performance for bargain-basement pricing.
> 
> I'll take a big sack of that any day


 

 You are using a wa5 and I am using a wa22.


----------



## San Raal

mikelap said:


> Personnally i wouldnt expect the 596 to blow me away if i compared it to the other tubes but what's your take on it .


 
  
 The 596 will at the very least, take your tube rolling experience to another level, it may blow you away - everyone on these boards loves it except me it would seem!
  
 I find the tube, forward, clinical and unbearable to listen to for more than 10 minutes. It does have however the most amazing bass weight.
  
 I did roll it with speakers and headphones on the WA5, but I do have another combo to try shortly (With seimens c3g adapters)
  
 Technically its an amazing tube and will last a lifetime, you'll need adapters for this rectifier too.
  
 If you have the Brimar 5z4g you are doing well, of all the tubes Ive heard and to my ears only the u52 and we 422a are the next level up.
  
 YMMV


----------



## Dubstep Girl

derkonstrukteur said:


> Dubstep Girl,
> 3 weeks ago I received my Woo Audio WA6 and based on your thread I purchased 2 RCA 5U4G (ribbed plates), great tubes. Also I was wondering if you had any experience with a Bendix 6106.Thank you.




never tried the bendix sorry , glad ur enjoying the rcas tho!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

san raal said:


> The 596 will at the very least, take your tube rolling experience to another level, it may blow you away - everyone on these boards loves it except me it would seem!
> 
> I find the tube, forward, clinical and unbearable to listen to for more than 10 minutes. It does have however the most amazing bass weight.
> 
> ...




the 596 is a great tube, i have found that it can be picky to pair well with,other tubes, sometimes having a little too much of that forwardness or the bass changing quite a bit, but ive also heard the 596 on amps like the glenn otl where it sounded great, it also sounds pretty sweet on wa22 if i remember correctly, they work alright on wa5 but i can see myself upgrading when i get bored of em, great tube and all, love it, but it does lack the "wow" factor that the u52 or we422 have, just not there yet lol


----------



## Zub-a-Roo

I see many U52's on Eslay... What are the best brand names to hunt?


----------



## San Raal

Mine are GEC and have a great euphoric sound to them without any veil or roll-off, the pins are quite thin on mine however, thinner than the pins on the other 5U4 types Ive used in the Woo. Since I do so much rolling now I use a pair of Glenn's socket savers for rectifiers.


----------



## magiccabbage

zub-a-roo said:


> I see many U52's on Eslay... What are the best brand names to hunt?


 
 link please


----------



## snapontom

This is one of my favorite threads, along with the "show a pic of your turntable thread".   It is Sunday morning here in AZ and cool.  I have a dedicated line of electricity to my system. There must be ample power in the grid today. My soundstage is up on the back wall, and the imaging is swell.  I am listening to live recordings from the Village Vanguard, Bill Evans on the piano.  Thought I heard the ice in a glass at one point.  The USAF 596 doesn't disappoint in the Taboo MKII and CSP2+, when I move to the a new 20 wpc amplifier I'll be upgrading the rectifier tubes.  Question.  Given your humble opinions, what are your current top 3 rectifiers?  I haven't listened to anything but the 596 for years.


----------



## jibzilla

zub-a-roo said:


> I see many U52's on Eslay... What are the best brand names to hunt?


 
  
 You want to look at bases and getters rather than brands. Brown curved bases are more sought after. Don't pay over $400, they are a nice tube but that gentleman that is selling them for $1k+ is smoking something imo. The brands mean very little. The GEC 6as7g is the better value at $200-$300ish if your amp uses that tube as well. I thought the 6sn7 was the most important tube in my amp till I listened to that tube.
  
 I do use a pretty high up the food chain 6sn7 tube in the 6sn7w long bottle, but with those 2 in place just a $50 smooth plate rca 5u4g is all that is needed in my amp which is a wheatfield ha-2, the baby brother of the Apex Teton. The smooth plates are a little harder to find and a little more expensive than the ribbed plate but really worth it if you can find one.
  
 Before you spend big bucks on a u52 check to see what the amp maker thinks about it. In my wheatfield manual it does say that changing the 6sn7 will make a difference and says that a 6as7 or 5998 change will improve things over the stock 6080 but little to no difference changing the 5u4g. Either the rca 5u4g smooth plate is an amazing tube, quite a bit better than the stock tube, or the 422, u52, and 596 just didn't do it for me. I thought they were more preferable just not anywhere near 10 times preferable, which is the price difference, and with the gec 6as7g and 6sn7w long bottle in place, not necessary. Using hd800's.


----------



## derkonstrukteur

I did buy a Bendix. Beyond amazing. Thank you.


----------



## Zub-a-Roo

jibzilla said:


> You want to look at bases and getters rather than brands. Brown curved bases are more sought after. Don't pay over $400, they are a nice tube but that gentleman that is selling them for $1k+ is smoking something imo. The brands mean very little. The GEC 6as7g is the better value at $200-$300ish if your amp uses that tube as well. I thought the 6sn7 was the most important tube in my amp till I listened to that tube.
> 
> I do use a pretty high up the food chain 6sn7 tube in the 6sn7w long bottle, but with those 2 in place just a $50 smooth plate rca 5u4g is all that is needed in my amp which is a wheatfield ha-2, the baby brother of the Apex Teton. The smooth plates are a little harder to find and a little more expensive than the ribbed plate but really worth it if you can find one.
> 
> Before you spend big bucks on a u52 check to see what the amp maker thinks about it. In my wheatfield manual it does say that changing the 6sn7 will make a difference and says that a 6as7 or 5998 change will improve things over the stock 6080 but little to no difference changing the 5u4g. Either the rca 5u4g smooth plate is an amazing tube, quite a bit better than the stock tube, or the 422, u52, and 596 just didn't do it for me. I thought they were more preferable just not anywhere near 10 times preferable, which is the price difference, and with the gec 6as7g and 6sn7w long bottle in place, not necessary. Using hd800's.


 
 Jibzilla,  Thank you for the response.
  
 I am currently utilizing 6SN7 Bad Boys in my WA6SE, with the highly current buzzed about Brimar.  I have also used the Sophia Princess prior to the Brimar, which I also really like (especially with the K701).  
  
 My three primary headphones used are the K701, HD650, and LCD 2.2F.  I guess my concern is... will an upgraded U52, 422, or 596 be worth the price paid.... or to focus that money towards a th900 or upgraded CD player.
  
 The more feedback I get, I may just continue to run these tubes and look at a Rega / Yaqin CD Player or add the TH900 to my HP family.
  
 Thx for the feedback


----------



## Dubstep Girl

zub-a-roo said:


> Jibzilla,  Thank you for the response.
> 
> I am currently utilizing 6SN7 Bad Boys in my WA6SE, with the highly current buzzed about Brimar.  I have also used the Sophia Princess prior to the Brimar, which I also really like (especially with the K701).
> 
> ...




TH-900


----------



## Porteroso

In for a U52. Hope it is as good as it seems it might be.


----------



## jhljhl

I'm actually selling a Brimar U52 right now in the classifieds.


----------



## jibzilla

zub-a-roo said:


> Jibzilla,  Thank you for the response.
> 
> I am currently utilizing 6SN7 Bad Boys in my WA6SE, with the highly current buzzed about Brimar.  I have also used the Sophia Princess prior to the Brimar, which I also really like (especially with the K701).
> 
> ...


 

 I had that amp but it was a while ago. I liked it allot with the 2.2c. I would check with Jack and other owners to see what tubes made the biggest difference. My recommendation would be to ditch the k701 and get the airbow sr-sc-11 from price japan and a used 727ii before the th-900. It's more expensive but with the proceeds from the 701 not allot more.
  
 The sound  is amazing and then you would have a stat, planar, dynamic combo. The 727ii also has parallel outs so it would not be a problem to run the 2 amps together. I say the k701 because to me the 650 and lcd-2 sound decently alike and should run similarly well off the wa6-se but I'm just guessing.


----------



## jibzilla

derkonstrukteur said:


> I did buy a Bendix. Beyond amazing. Thank you.


 

 Bendix 6080wb? I tried out quite a few 6080's and thought they were worth not much more than the $10-$20 they sold for. Def. felt like they were bottlenecking the wheatfield. The graphite plates are a totally different story though and because the 6080's have such a bad rap they are decently affordable at around $50. With the bendix at $50 the 5998 is no more than a $100 tube and the GEC 6as7g no more than $200 tube at least in the wheatfield with hd800's. Really nice tube.
  
 Back to the 5u4g. I did find one picture of todd with a Teton/hd800 setup at a meet. He was def. using a 5998. The 6sn7 is a metal base, I think it is a 6sn7w but it could be a melz. The 5u4g though looks like the Aus. miniwatt that came with my wheatfield and from what I can tell this is only a $30 tube tops. The rca smooth plate took it up a notch over the miniwatt and the holy grail 596, u52 and 422a a notch after that but the improvement was no bigger than the smooth plate from miniwatt and with the 596 adapter the price jump from $55 to at least $300-$600 just did not seem worth it where with the 6sn7 it was really, really worth it to go from a $50 grey glass, chrome dome, mouse ears...etc to a $200-$300 6sn7w, b65. TSRP probably too but I have not tried that or the 68fg adapter equivalent. A 33S30 is also on my bucket list.


----------



## derkonstrukteur

I am not familiar with the Bendix 6080. I bought the Bendix 6106 rectifier tube. I got one for $75. I think it's really a great tube.
 Thank you.


----------



## 2K9R56S

Does anyone have an idea as to what would cause a Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate to perform terribly with a brand new WA22?  Actually two Sophia's in a row.
  
 The first SP 274B sounded fine for about 30 minutes, then I started to hear a blip of static with each step of the volume knob, and eventually the overall volume was less than half of what it should have been.  The eBay seller replaced the tube, and sure enough the second tube started doing the same thing.
  
 I have about 5 or 6 other rectifier tubes and they all work perfectly fine.  I contacted Woo and their only suggestion was to see if it happens with the original power and driver tubes (which is does), and Sophia's suggestion was to have my WA22 repaired immediately.
  
 I had a Sophia Princess a few years back with my WA6 and never had an issue.  Could it be a bad batch or something?
  
 Any suggestions/insight would be appreciated.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Stereolab42

2k9r56s said:


> Does anyone have an idea as to what would cause a Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate to perform terribly with a brand new WA22?  Actually two Sophia's in a row.
> 
> The first SP 274B sounded fine for about 30 minutes, then I started to hear a blip of static with each step of the volume knob, and eventually the overall volume was less than half of what it should have been.  The eBay seller replaced the tube, and sure enough the second tube started doing the same thing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I strongly doubt it's the SP given that you've tried two of them. Static when changing volume can be due to DC on the balanced inputs, try connecting your DAC to the RCA inputs instead and see if it goes away. The volume drop is a mystery.


----------



## 2K9R56S

stereolab42 said:


> I strongly doubt it's the SP given that you've tried two of them. Static when changing volume can be due to DC on the balanced inputs, try connecting your DAC to the RCA inputs instead and see if it goes away. The volume drop is a mystery.


 
  
  
 Just gave it a try.  Same results through the SE input but with an even lower volume.
  
 Here's a group photo of all the other rectifiers that work perfectly fine.


----------



## Stereolab42

2k9r56s said:


> Just gave it a try.  Same results through the SE input but with an even lower volume.
> 
> Here's a group photo of all the other rectifiers that work perfectly fine.


 
  
 Somehow I missed that you had tried multiple other rectifiers. Honestly, this is bizarre since I had a WA22 with multiple Sophias and other rectifiers and they all worked fine. Not sure what to say.


----------



## jibzilla

derkonstrukteur said:


> I am not familiar with the Bendix 6080. I bought the Bendix 6106 rectifier tube. I got one for $75. I think it's really a great tube.
> Thank you.


 

 Never heard of it. Thanks. I will have to try this tube out.


----------



## derkonstrukteur

jibzilla said:


> Never heard of it. Thanks. I will have to try this tube out.


 

 You will not regret.


----------



## Seamaster

I finally get an U52. It tested really strong, over 100% no gas no short on my B&K 747 tester. It has a black plate with ring or square box getter. I also have seen other variants of U52 such as upside down cup getter, black bakelite cup, and different date codes. Can anyone tell me the difference between them in sound? As far as I know this U52 I got here is not the best version.


----------



## abvolt

That's cool I've not been able to find one marked as a u52 like yours, I have a number of 5u4g's  if you don't mind let us know how it sounds..


----------



## Seamaster

abvolt said:


> That's cool I've not been able to find one marked as a u52 like yours, I have a number of 5u4g's  if you don't mind let us know how it sounds..


 
 Setup:
  
 Macbook Pro 2013 + Dehavilland ultraverve 3 + iFi Micro + Sony TA-N77ES + Tannoy Turnberry ( on a pair of granite slabs)
  
 I let the tube warmed up for 30 min. They smooth out the HF of my system while maintain timing and rhythm of the music. Great density and warmth, music instruments sound very real-life like. Piano sounded correct as well as violin. Both male and female vocal sound very attractive. I did not notice transparency change but imaging has more 3D feeling to it. Bass, yes, it does bass and mid-bass with nice decay! Bass does not bleed into other frequencies, clean, powerful, with great foundation, but not one-note (that is +). I remember the EML mesh did not have bass like this.


----------



## Seamaster

From my memory, the cup getter seems sound little better in the mid-range, but not 100% sure because I can not compare then side by side.


----------



## Seamaster

2k9r56s said:


> Does anyone have an idea as to what would cause a Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate to perform terribly with a brand new WA22?  Actually two Sophia's in a row.
> 
> The first SP 274B sounded fine for about 30 minutes, then I started to hear a blip of static with each step of the volume knob, and eventually the overall volume was less than half of what it should have been.  The eBay seller replaced the tube, and sure enough the second tube started doing the same thing.
> 
> ...


 

 I tried Sophia Princess 274B mesh in my WA22 before, they made big hum and was not listenable at all. I gave up on Sophia Princess 274B mesh. My WA22 did take every other rectifier I rolled, no problem.


----------



## Seamaster

san raal said:


> Mine are GEC and have a great euphoric sound to them without any veil or roll-off, the pins are quite thin on mine however, thinner than the pins on the other 5U4 types Ive used in the Woo. Since I do so much rolling now I use a pair of Glenn's socket savers for rectifiers.


 

 I lube all my tube pins every time I insert one.


----------



## abvolt

what is the lube do you use if I can ask thanks, also glad to hear the u52 sounds good, I'll keep looking then


----------



## Seamaster

abvolt said:


> what is the lube do you use if I can ask thanks, also glad to hear the u52 sounds good, I'll keep looking then


 

 One shot of Deoxit Gold G5 on a Q tip then wipe all the pins with it.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks just ordered a bottle never used a lube for my tubes smart idea, I've got a large collection of tubes for my wa22 & wa7/tp as most of us here knows they get spendy very quickly, best to do everything to help preserve our investments..


----------



## Seamaster

abvolt said:


> Thanks just ordered a bottle never used a lube for my tubes smart idea, I've got a large collection of tubes for my wa22 & wa7/tp as most of us here knows they get spendy very quickly, best to do everything to help preserve our investments..


 

 I rolled a lot of tubes with my WA22 but the gold plating of the sockets never worn off using my method. Those sockets looked fairly new when I sold my ModWright modded WA22 to a gentleman in Swaziland four or five years ago.


----------



## Seamaster

seamaster said:


> I rolled a lot of tubes with my WA22 but the gold plating of the sockets never worn off using my method. Those sockets looked fairly new when I sold my ModWright modded WA22 to a gentleman in Swaziland four or five years ago.


 

 And never looked back...


----------



## MIKELAP

seamaster said:


> 2k9r56s said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have an idea as to what would cause a Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate to perform terribly with a brand new WA22?  Actually two Sophia's in a row.
> ...


 

 Must of been the tube no problem here


----------



## 2K9R56S

mikelap said:


> Must of been the tube no problem here


 
  
  
 That's what I'm thinking.  I've added a few more rectifiers to my collection since that picture and they all work fine.  Hopefully the Sophia will work in something other than a WA22, but I won't know until I can at least get it tested first.


----------



## 2K9R56S

seamaster said:


> I tried Sophia Princess 274B mesh in my WA22 before, they made big hum and was not listenable at all. I gave up on Sophia Princess 274B mesh. My WA22 did take every other rectifier I rolled, no problem.


 
  
  
 How long ago was that?


----------



## abvolt

I don't have the sophia but have read on many boards that it's an excellent sounding tube guess one of these days I have to get one and see for myself..


----------



## Seamaster

2k9r56s said:


> How long ago was that?




4 years ago


----------



## Porteroso

seamaster said:


> I lube all my tube pins every time I insert one.


 
 I had a nice chuckle, till you kept going, and I realized you were serious.... I need to get my head out of the gutter apparently.


----------



## Seamaster

porteroso said:


> I had a nice chuckle, till you kept going, and I realized you were serious.... I need to get my head out of the gutter apparently.


 

 Yeah, it did sound funny when you think different objects


----------



## jhljhl

I had a hum issue with a sophia princess and the wa22 as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jhljhl said:


> I had a hum issue with a sophia princess and the wa22 as well.


 
  
 +1
  
 WA22 was annoying to me, the clicky attenuator, high noise floor, interferences with some tubes/tube combos, and the occasional microphonic 6sn7... but it did have a really nice soundstage in exchange for putting up with all that


----------



## Badas

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> WA22 was annoying to me, the clicky attenuator, high noise floor, interferences with some tubes/tube combos, and the occasional microphonic 6sn7... but it did have a really nice soundstage in exchange for putting up with all that


 

 Please tell me about the *interferences with some tubes/tube combos*.
  
 I have the WA22 now and I'm having a frustrating time with the 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes. A lot are just straight out noisy. Really starting to wonder if the WA22 is just not nice to the 6080 type tube or if there is interference from the other tubes. So I find your statement very interesting.
  
 Some tubes work. Some don't. Always a noise or hum issue.


----------



## Seamaster

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> WA22 was annoying to me, the clicky attenuator, high noise floor, interferences with some tubes/tube combos, and the occasional microphonic 6sn7... but it did have a really nice soundstage in exchange for putting up with all that


 
  
 I did not have noise floor problem with most of my tubes. I sold my WA22 because it lacked dynamic and sounded veiled. 
  
  


badas said:


> Please tell me about the *interferences with some tubes/tube combos*.
> 
> I have the WA22 now and I'm having a frustrating time with the 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes. A lot are just straight out noisy. Really starting to wonder if the WA22 is just not nice to the 6080 type tube or if there is interference from the other tubes. So I find your statement very interesting.
> 
> Some tubes work. Some don't. Always a noise or hum issue.


 
  
 I did not have problem with my GEC 6AS7G and GEC 6080. Most of my tubes have some noise when new or in storage for a while, noise will be gone after 20 hours or so. 90% of my tubes with WA22 were very quite. Except the Princess of course.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

badas said:


> Please tell me about the *interferences with some tubes/tube combos*.
> 
> I have the WA22 now and I'm having a frustrating time with the 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes. A lot are just straight out noisy. Really starting to wonder if the WA22 is just not nice to the 6080 type tube or if there is interference from the other tubes. So I find your statement very interesting.
> 
> Some tubes work. Some don't. Always a noise or hum issue.


 
  
 ^ this, i don't remember which ones were the problems i never wrote them down, i might have posted something a while back though about it. 
  
 i found the more powerful 5998 and 7236 increased the noise but weren't ever a problem with noise themselves (some like RCA 6AS7G are, but in general the powers gave me no problems). the 6sn7 (6F8G more in particular, like when it doesn't play well with certain tubes) were the biggest problems for me, sophia, and a few other rectifiers, not all the rectifiers played nice, and u do have to keep mixing tubes around, since some combinations just didnt work too well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

seamaster said:


> I did not have noise floor problem with most of my tubes. I sold my WA22 because it lacked dynamic and sounded veiled.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not have problem with my GEC 6AS7G and GEC 6080. Most of my tubes have some noise when new or in storage for a while, noise will be gone after 20 hours or so. 90% of my tubes with WA22 were very quite. Except the Princess of course.


 
  
 i sold mine because transparency was still not top level (veil?) and it just sounded too colored for my tastes, the huge soundstage, warm tubey sound, forward midrange, and lean bass (eww), i think the bass is what made me sell. with the absolute very best tubes, alot of these issues were resolved and the WA22 was amazing with HD 800, but still not enough, the attenuator annoyed me and the noise floor still isn't as good as the competition.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Please tell me about the *interferences with some tubes/tube combos*.
> 
> I have the WA22 now and I'm having a frustrating time with the 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes. A lot are just straight out noisy. Really starting to wonder if the WA22 is just not nice to the 6080 type tube or if there is interference from the other tubes. So I find your statement very interesting.
> 
> Some tubes work. Some don't. Always a noise or hum issue.


 

 I have a pair of mullard 6080 that are quiet.  I think 6080 in WA22 sound good but are too polite sounding.  Good for background listening and jazz/classical maybe but not that dynamic.


----------



## Badas

dubstep girl said:


> ^ this, i don't remember which ones were the problems i never wrote them down, i might have posted something a while back though about it.
> 
> i found the more powerful 5998 and 7236 increased the noise but weren't ever a problem with noise themselves (some like RCA 6AS7G are, but in general the powers gave me no problems). the 6sn7 (6F8G more in particular, like when it doesn't play well with certain tubes) were the biggest problems for me, sophia, and a few other rectifiers, not all the rectifiers played nice, and u do have to keep mixing tubes around, since some combinations just didnt work too well.


 
  
  


jhljhl said:


> I have a pair of mullard 6080 that are quiet.  I think 6080 in WA22 sound good but are too polite sounding.  Good for background listening and jazz/classical maybe but not that dynamic.


 
  
 I have found this:
  
 Rectifier Brimar 5Z4 or Mullard GZ32 it doesn't matter.
 Drivers Tung-Sol Round Plates 6F8G's or RCA 6SN7's it doesn't matter they are both fine.
 Power Tubes: GE 6080, Tung-Sol 7236, Tung-Sol 6AS7G, Sylvania 6080 and Bendix 6080 are all quiet. RCA 6AS7G, Raytheon 6AS7G, Sylvania 6AS7G, Sevetlana 6N13 and Mullard 6080 are all noisy. No matter how much burn they don't correct themselves.


----------



## abvolt

I haven't found the wa22 to have lean bass at least not for my ears, I listen to jazz mostly which is heavy in bass and the wa22 sounds great maybe it's just me though..


----------



## MIKELAP

I bought a pair of 5R4WGA AND WGB rectifiers not bad at all for the price and are those things build to take a beating dont know for how many hours they are rated for.The glass on those tubes is very thick  its like they used a small jar  . Anybody else try these   .


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I haven't found the wa22 to have lean bass at least not for my ears, I listen to jazz mostly which is heavy in bass and the wa22 sounds great maybe it's just me though..


 

 No not you. I find it fantastic on bass as well.


----------



## Seamaster

dubstep girl said:


> i sold mine because transparency was still not top level (veil?) and it just sounded too colored for my tastes, the huge soundstage, warm tubey sound, forward midrange, and lean bass (eww), i think the bass is what made me sell. with the absolute very best tubes, alot of these issues were resolved and the WA22 was amazing with HD 800, but still not enough, the attenuator annoyed me and the noise floor still isn't as good as the competition.




I totally agree with you the WA22 sounded polite. It lacked the drive when listen to classical or orchestra because I often feel it ran out of breath. I tried to over come the transparency issue by asking Dan, the owner of ModWright to mod my WA22. Dan made nice inprovement to the amp but not to the point that convences me not to sell it by the end. By the the end of the road and $3000 later with tubes and mod, my WA22 was in a different leagaure compares to a stock WA22 when we test it at Ken's place at ALO Audio. Woo Audio mades nice amps but this one (WA22) was not my final project. By the way I really liked the forward midrange of the WA22 but it is a personal reference thing. 



abvolt said:


> I haven't found the wa22 to have lean bass at least not for my ears, I listen to jazz mostly which is heavy in bass and the wa22 sounds great maybe it's just me though..





badas said:


> No not you. I find it fantastic on bass as well.




Bass quantity was OK, but the bass extension, bass timing, and bass "bleeding" were the issues. I currently use a Sony TA-2000F preamp for now headphone amp, it is great.The bass out of the old Sony TA-2000F is one of the best I have heard and I never used tone control with it. The headphone output of my Mcintosh intergrated sucks bad.


----------



## jhljhl

I think WA22 is eventually too polite sounding with even the 5998 drivers but still engaging for me.  You can only go so far before with the essential sound signature of the WA22 which is engaging and transparent holographic but there is not so much dynamic body to the sound or power - as someone can somewhat notice with bass response (this is personal).  It is engaging but loses steam even with power tube change - dynamics- drive some would say, depends though on if the music requires it.   With metal 5ar4 it is has remarkable holographic - transparency.
  
 The decware Taboo MKIII + CSP2+ gives that body and dynamics but somewhat slightly bloated bass sometimes with LCD3f but comes out more defined with hd800.  Very engaging but narrower more intimate sound stage a little much sometimes with LCD3f but just enough with HD800 to bring in the sound space if one wants a warmer dynamic more intimate sound with hd800.
  
 So I think I would like to combine decware Taboo MKIII+CSP2+ with WA22 = end game amp.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But they are very good complementary amp styles.


----------



## Seamaster

To me, I think I am going to tube Pre to SS power amp and then tap the power amp with an HP adapter


----------



## Seamaster

Look at the top of the line Woo WA34, is the basic concept of tapping a pair of power mono block


----------



## 2K9R56S

Wow.  Very interesting to hear all this.  I have a quad matched set of RCA 6AS7G (from 1953 I believe) that were leftover from my Little Dot MKVI+.  Other than the first 20 minutes of ownership with the stock tubes just to make sure everything worked, the 6AS7G's have been in the amp since day one.  They are completely silent.  My WA22 is only about 3 months old, so maybe Woo has made some small tweaks/changes over the years.
  
 For S&G's I tried the Sophia 274B again with a pair of Sophia 6SN7 drivers, and still got the same results.  However, this time the glow of the 274B would slowly change back and forth from bright to dim.  After witnessing that a couple times, the S&G session ended.
  
 Compared to the MKVI+, the WA22 has a leetle bit less bass, but a lot more detail and a wider soundstage.  I never did a side by side comparison because I went from the MKVI+ to a Mjolnir and then to the WA22, but the source DAC, cables, files, headphones, etc. stayed the same.  There's certain tracks where it's very evident.
  
 Regardless, the WA22 wins hands down over the MKVI+ for several reasons.  The Mjolnir was no slouch, but I was having tube rolling separation anxiety.


----------



## jhljhl

2k9r56s said:


> Wow.  Very interesting to hear all this.  I have a quad matched set of RCA 6AS7G (from 1953 I believe) that were leftover from my Little Dot MKVI+.  Other than the first 20 minutes of ownership with the stock tubes just to make sure everything worked, the 6AS7G's have been in the amp since day one.  They are completely silent.  My WA22 is only about 3 months old, so maybe Woo has made some small tweaks/changes over the years.
> 
> For S&G's I tried the Sophia 274B again with a pair of Sophia 6SN7 drivers, and still got the same results.  However, this time the glow of the 274B would slowly change back and forth from bright to dim.  After witnessing that a couple times, the S&G session ended.
> 
> ...


 

 To add dynamics and more weight to the sound I will try my CSP2+ as a preamp to the WA22.


----------



## abvolt

I just got a mullard CV593 and it's so far one of my favorite sounding rectifiers it's taken my wa22 to the next level of SQ..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I just got a mullard CV593 and it's so far one of my favorite sounding rectifiers it's taken my wa22 to the next level of SQ..


 

 Yeah, I have 5 of those. You can pick them up cheap branded as Philips as well. Same tube. Avoid Mazda Miniwatt. They look the same but are just a tiny bit different. They sound awful.
  
 Have you tried the Brimar 5Z4? Better bass than the Mullard.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





badas said:


> abvolt said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a mullard CV593 and it's so far one of my favorite sounding rectifiers it's taken my wa22 to the next level of SQ..
> ...


 

 i think this is the Philips EZ32 your talking about with Blackburn factory code R71 and reconizable by there rounded  plate here's a picture i paid  $60.00 total for this tube


----------



## Badas

Exactamondo.
  
 You have got to look for those cutouts as per the illustration. I did a post about it a while back.
  
 I have 3 Mullards coded R71 that I paid $75 each for.
  
 I picked up the two Philips R71 codes for $18 (for two).


----------



## jhljhl

I have a mullard gz32 on the way. I hope it is as good as cifte gz32 which I have that is really transparent.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I have a mullard gz32 on the way. I hope it is as good as cifte gz32 which I have that is really transparent.


 

 Mullard GZ32 is certainly not transparent. It has a nice lush pushed mid-range. Don't worry it is very nice.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks *Badas* for the info on the  Philips branded I take a look for one of those. I see from what *MIKELAP *posted they are a lot less $$ much appreciated. This tube really has a great sound I think anyone would love..


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Mullard GZ32 is certainly not transparent. It has a nice lush pushed mid-range. Don't worry it is very nice.


 

 I tried out the mullard gz32 and it is warmer in the mids "midrange magic" while transparent in that there isn't much graininess.  This is a good bargain tube however I think I still prefer the cifte gz32 just a little more because even though it is has less in the mids it is more transparent "clearer" - just a personal preference.  This is still a good bargain tube.  It is a good change from the metal gz34 I was listening to in that the gz32 has less imaging so their is a little more blurring in instruments which makes it particularly good for long periods of casual listening.
  
 Edit: mullard gz32 is remarkable with hd800 gives wonderful midrange warmth and depth.


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> I haven't found the wa22 to have lean bass at least not for my ears, I listen to jazz mostly which is heavy in bass and the wa22 sounds great maybe it's just me though..


 

 Well for dubstep and edm it probably isn't enough...


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Well for dubstep and edm it probably isn't enough...


 

 My WA22 is outperforming my Solid State Oppo HA-1 in the bass department. Not bad for a tube amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jhljhl said:


> Well for dubstep and edm it probably isn't enough...


 
  
 It wasn't enough for me ...


----------



## Seamaster

dubstep girl said:


> It wasn't enough for me ...


 

 Same here, it also comes down to the bass timing, texture, extension, and decay of WA22 were lacking. The bass was pretty muddled, sure I can use my Phlips GZ34 + British 6CG7 with silver shields but they made the sound more dry and clinical. My old Sony TA-2000F preamp does much better job on bass alone.


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> Same here, it also comes down to the bass timing, texture, extension, and decay of WA22 were lacking. The bass was pretty muddled, sure I can use my Phlips GZ34 + British 6CG7 with silver shields but they made the sound more dry and clinical. My old Sony TA-2000F preamp does much better job on bass alone.


 
  
 A British 6CG7? I didn't think these were manufactured outside of the US and Japan?


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> A British 6CG7? I didn't think these were manufactured outside of the US and Japan?


 

  


 The left one has gray shield and the right has silver shield. Most of the 6CG7s do not have shields, regardless short or long plate. These British 6CG7s kick any US to Japan made 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes' ass. They have the big warm (should say warmer than other 6CG7s) and dynamic tone. When I put them in my WA22, they had a Windex effect on music presentation. Yes, according to Internet source, they are not suppose to exist. 
  
 PS: I am very afraid their price is going to the roof after this post just like what I did to 6F8Gs


----------



## Seamaster

You can get them here:
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mazda-6cg7-6fq7/?page_context=search&faceted_search=0


----------



## gibosi

Thanks for the info, the pictures and the link. I have a bunch of US and Japanese 6CG7/6FQ7, and wasn't all that impressed. Generally, I prefer the Philips-made ECC40 over these and am very curious to try this Brimar 6CG7. And I've also got a nice Brimar 13D3 for comparison. Thanks again.


----------



## Seamaster

seamaster said:


> The left one has gray shield and the right has silver shield. Most of the 6CG7s do not have shields, regardless short or long plate. These British 6CG7s kick any US to Japan made 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes' ass. They have the big warm (should say warmer than other 6CG7s) and dynamic tone. When I put them in my WA22, they had a Windex effect on music presentation. Yes, according to Internet source, they are not suppose to exist.
> 
> PS: I am very afraid their price is going to the roof after this post just like what I did to 6F8Gs


 
  
 Let me made it clear that they are warm relate to other 6CG7s. They sound cooler compare to 6SN7 and 6F8G.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> Thanks for the info, the pictures and the link. I have a bunch of US and Japanese 6CG7/6FQ7, and wasn't all that impressed. Generally, I prefer the Philips-made ECC40 over these and am very curious to try this Brimar 6CG7. And I've also got a nice Brimar 13D3 for comparison. Thanks again.


 
  
 I can let you try a pair for a month. All you need to do is pay for the shipping and be gentle with them. It is my head-fi community contribution, just PM me.


----------



## jhljhl

How


seamaster said:


> The left one has gray shield and the right has silver shield. Most of the 6CG7s do not have shields, regardless short or long plate. These British 6CG7s kick any US to Japan made 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes' ass. They have the big warm (should say warmer than other 6CG7s) and dynamic tone. When I put them in my WA22, they had a Windex effect on music presentation. Yes, according to Internet source, they are not suppose to exist.
> 
> PS: I am very afraid their price is going to the roof after this post just like what I did to 6F8Gs


 

 Do you know how the mazda compare to rca clear tops? thanks.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> A British 6CG7? I didn't think these were manufactured outside of the US and Japan?


 
  
 There are others: Ei, AWV, maybe more.


----------



## Oskari

seamaster said:


> These British 6CG7s kick any US to Japan made 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes' ass. … Yes, according to Internet source, they are not suppose to exist.


 
  
 That's because they don't exist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is very fortunate that there is a clearly visible code (2195) in the photo. These are, in fact, 6/30L2 aka ECC804 tubes. A tube similar to 6CG7 but not exact.


----------



## Oskari

seamaster said:


> You can get them here:
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mazda-6cg7-6fq7/?page_context=search&faceted_search=0


 
  
 Search for 6/30L2 or ECC804. There is no need to pay Upscale prices for them.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Search for 6/30L2 or ECC804. There is no need to pay Upscale prices for them.


 
  
 As usual, great detective work! I was wondering about the significance of the code, 1M22195....  So "2195" = ECC804, and perhaps "1M2" = 2nd week, December, 1961 or 1971?


----------



## Seamaster

oskari said:


> Search for 6/30L2 or ECC804. There is no need to pay Upscale prices for them.


 

 That is a good find!


----------



## jhljhl

seamaster said:


> That is a good find!


 

 So I guess the ecc804 is compatible with the WA22 amp.
  
 Also, I think using a pre-amp into the WA22 might help with the 6cg7- I've tried with a csp2+ and it works well.  I wonder what it would sound like with a WA2 or WA3 as a pre-amp into the WA22?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> So I guess the ecc804 is compatible with the WA22 amp.


 
  
 Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
  
 ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
  
 E80CC/6085 and 13D3 (These require a 12AU7 pin-adapter)
  
 And each of the following require different pin-adapters
  
 E182CC/7119 and 5687
 ECC40
 6463
 2C51
  
 Happy rolling!


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> As usual, great detective work! I was wondering about the significance of the code, 1M22195....  So "2195" = ECC804, and perhaps "1M2" = 2nd week, December, 1961 or 1971?


 
  
 Something like that except the week and the year are supposed to be the other way round.
  

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
> 
> ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
> 
> ...


 

 There is a Woo amp tube compatibility chart and some of these are not on them.  That's why I asked.
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## jhljhl

seamaster said:


> Same here, it also comes down to the bass timing, texture, extension, and decay of WA22 were lacking. The bass was pretty muddled, sure I can use my Phlips GZ34 + British 6CG7 with silver shields but they made the sound more dry and clinical. My old Sony TA-2000F preamp does much better job on bass alone.


 

 I think if possible, you can use solid state 5ar4 replacement rectifiers on the WA22 that could potentially change the bass response?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> There is a Woo amp tube compatibility chart and some of these are not on them.  That's why I asked.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


 
  
 As that document states at the beginning: "The following chart is a limited survey of tube compatibility...." and therefore, it is not a full and complete list.
  
 The above medium-mu double triodes are all similar enough to a 6SN7 that they will not cause any harm to the amp, but they do require pin-adapters. That said, there is no guarantee that they will sound good.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> As that document states at the beginning: "The following chart is a limited survey of tube compatibility...." and therefore, it is not a full and complete list.
> 
> The above medium-mu double triodes are all similar enough to a 6SN7 that they will not cause any harm to the amp, but they do require pin-adapters. That said, there is no guarantee that they will sound good.


 

 Well that's really interesting.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I guess 12au7 is ok too which I have some around.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Well that's really interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As the 12AU7 was designed as a 9-pin miniature all-glass replacement for the 6SN7, it is very similar electrically, and will work fine with an adapter.


----------



## Seamaster

jhljhl said:


> I think if possible, you can use solid state 5ar4 replacement rectifiers on the WA22 that could potentially change the bass response?




You could but that is really going to chage the tone for no good (I think).



gibosi said:


> As the 12AU7 was designed as a 9-pin miniature all-glass replacement for the 6SN7, it is very similar electrically, and will work fine with an adapter.




I tried Mullard CV4003 with Glenn adpter in WA22, they sounded drier and imaging were smaller than 6SN7 and 6F8G. Just like you said, not guarantee to sound good.


----------



## jhljhl

seamaster said:


> You could but that is really going to chage the tone for no good (I think).
> I tried Mullard CV4003 with Glenn adpter in WA22, they sounded drier and imaging were smaller than 6SN7 and 6F8G. Just like you said, not guarantee to sound good.


 
  
 I tried last night with my csp2+ (which can be somewhat neutral pre amp depending on tubes) I used a mullard gz32 (rich midrange) and it is really nice with RCA cleartop 6cg7s.


----------



## Seamaster

jhljhl said:


> So I guess the ecc804 is compatible with the WA22 amp.
> 
> Also, I think using a pre-amp into the WA22 might help with the 6cg7- I've tried with a csp2+ and it works well.  I wonder what it would sound like with a WA2 or WA3 as a pre-amp into the WA22?




WA22 itself is a preamp. Or was an extra $150 option, I forgot, I know mine could be used as a preamp but never had to use it as preamp though. I did not have the speaker setup at that time.


----------



## abvolt

I use my wa22 just for that purpose to drive a set of monitors the sound is real nice..


----------



## jhljhl

If a solid state bass sound is desired you could use a solid state rectifier - I wonder what that would sound like?  I think Dubstep Girl used these tube rectifiers in a WA22 so a solid state rectifier might help with a faster ss bass response though it will likely effect other aspects.  https://www.tubedepot.com/products/solid-state-rectifier


----------



## Stereolab42

Using a solid-state rectifier in an expensive tube amp is a crime punishable by 10 years of continuous listening to Bose headphones...


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> Using a solid-state rectifier in an expensive tube amp is a crime punishable by 10 years of continuous listening to Bose headphones...


 

 +1 lol, that's being generous


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> +1 lol, that's being generous


 
 Well people want that solid state effect for some kinds of music (dubstep, edm, hip hop, metal etc) but that's the limitations of a tube amp.  But if it works???  If it sounds good. I mean that's why there are hybrid amps.
  
 I know some guitar amps have moved towards them but I'm not sure how successfully.
  
 As for me the WE 422a sounds glorious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Really.  It unpacks layers of the music in comparison.  The metal gz34 a close 2nd.  And the u52 at third, I think.  All have their strengths and are worth the try. 
  
 Now I wonder about the WE 274b etc...


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Using a solid-state rectifier in an expensive tube amp is a crime punishable by 10 years of continuous listening to Bose headphones...


 
  
 Isn't there something in the US Constitution outlawing "Cruel and Unusual" punishment"?


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> ... As for me the WE 422a sounds glorious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And the new production high performances rectifiers are... TA274 and stuff all else. Really a pity that only Takatsuki has produced a rectifier that can match it with the NOS big boys.
  
 I recently had the opportunity to purchase a pair of metal base GZ34s from a HeadFi friend - for $1,500. Passed at that price. Things are getting crazy with rectifiers.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> And the new production high performances rectifiers are... TA274 and stuff all else. Really a pity that only Takatsuki has produced a rectifier that can match it with the NOS big boys.
> 
> I recently had the opportunity to purchase a pair of metal base GZ34s from a HeadFi friend - for $1,500. Passed at that price. Things are getting crazy with rectifiers.


 

 I think that you can get singles for $3-400 on ebay -if they test strong - it will match well enough, but that's my 2 cents. 
  
 I heard the TA274's are not being made now...? not sure but that looks interesting.


----------



## Stereolab42

These are those hilarious metal RCA 5V4s we were talking about on the 6SN7 thread... they're not gonna win any SQ awards but don't sound half-bad for the (dirt-cheap) price. Anyways, I like them for the novelty value.


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> Well people want that solid state effect for some kinds of music (dubstep, edm, hip hop, metal etc) but that's the limitations of a tube amp.  But if it works???  If it sounds good. I mean that's why there are hybrid amps.
> 
> I know some guitar amps have moved towards them but I'm not sure how successfully.
> 
> ...


 

 The WE422a is very good as is the Metal Base GZ34 - IMHO the WE274B is superior and the Takatsuki 274B is to close to call, in most areas I prefer the Tak 274B. Interesting only WE and Takatsuki do not add the calcium oxide "pep" to their valves. Leading to long burn in tines but much longer life. If you haven't tried the Takatsuki and you love the WE's you owe it to yourself


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> And the new production high performances rectifiers are... TA274 and stuff all else. Really a pity that only Takatsuki has produced a rectifier that can match it with the NOS big boys.
> 
> I recently had the opportunity to purchase a pair of metal base GZ34s from a HeadFi friend - for $1,500. Passed at that price. Things are getting crazy with rectifiers.


 

 I was just offered a single WE 274B 'Navy" used for $1,650 US


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I was just offered a single WE 274B 'Navy" used for $1,650 US


 
  
 Makes the TA274B seem like a bargain


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> The WE422a is very good as is the Metal Base GZ34 - IMHO the WE274B is superior and the Takatsuki 274B is to close to call, in most areas I prefer the Tak 274B. Interesting only WE and Takatsuki do not add the calcium oxide "pep" to their valves. Leading to long burn in tines but much longer life. If you haven't tried the Takatsuki and you love the WE's you owe it to yourself


 

 Yes, it seems I will have to give one a try.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Are the 274a the same?


----------



## TonyNewman

Shoot me now...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Western-Electric-274B-Engraved-Tube-Disc-Getter-NOS-NIB-/291303446047


----------



## Badas

^

Holey cow. :eek:


----------



## isquirrel

It gets crazier
  
 MP of Western Electric 300B Tube Double Square Getter NOS NIB Date code: 6539 http://r.ebay.com/4NJ3IJ


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> Yes, it seems I will have to give one a try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Electrically internally yes, physically no.
  
 The base and pins are different - the 274A does not have a centre guide like a 300B and the same 4 pins as a 300B.
  
 See the pics below:
  
 274B
  

  
 274A


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> It gets crazier
> 
> MP of Western Electric 300B Tube Double Square Getter NOS NIB Date code: 6539 http://r.ebay.com/4NJ3IJ


 
  
 I will correct my earlier statement - Takatsukis _*are *_a bargain


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> It gets crazier
> 
> MP of Western Electric 300B Tube Double Square Getter NOS NIB Date code: 6539 http://r.ebay.com/4NJ3IJ




If I purchased those I would want to get buried with them.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I will correct my earlier statement - Takatsukis _*are *_a bargain


 

 They are, not only are they a bargain but a dear friend of mine has matching golden pairs of the WE300B early 1940's grey plates (supposed to be the best) and matching 274B's and A's. I have had them on loan for a few days 2 months ago. I did a lot of side by side comparison wit the Takatsuki's and I thought in my system on that day the Tak's more than held up. They had a more even spread across the frequency spectrum, the WE's sounded beautifully sweet in the mid range, but I felt they were not as extended as the Tak's in the upper treble range and lower bass registers. 
  
 Now I have recently done research on the burn in or waking up process of the Taks compared to other 300B's I have due to the extraordinary long time they take to reach their sonic best either when new or after lay up. What has been useful is that a good friend, fellow head-fier has the same tubes, amps and has had the exact same experiences, so we could compare notes.
  
 I found out by accident really reading an interview done with the late CEO of Western Electric back in the 90's that WE were the only manufacturer to not add a coat of Calcium Oxide to their valves. This was/is used as a pep if you like to speed up the burn in process. He suggested that it not only did that but it also dramatically shortened the life span of the tubes. Well cared for Western Electric 300B's will last for 30,000 - 40,000 hours. I think the record for long life is the Mullard GZ34 metal base, hence why I have 2 good pairs as I figure they will last me a life time. Put into that perspective WE's and Mullard's are good value.
  
 Back to the Takatsuki's - I keep a daily spreadsheet of exactly how many hours are logged on a daily basis of all of my tubes. From new the Takatsuki's took at least 400 hours to settle down and open up. There were periods in the 1st 250 hours when I could not listen at all, it was that bad and I felt like I was going out of my mind. However my friend was having the exact same experiences. What really amazed me was how long they take to wake up after being rested for a few days, let alone weeks. To give you an example if I take out day the 274B's and put them aside for a week, it takes at least 7-10 days for them to come back. I have noticed this phenomen with almost all tubes but never that long. You will shortly have the same experience Tony when I ship you your Takatsuki's this week. Please keep a log so we can compare notes and do not take them out ! These are not tube rolling tubes they do not like being handled. 
  
 They need 2-3 days of rest after travelling before being installed and then will need 2 weeks maybe more to wake up. 
  
 Back to the Takatsuki versus the WE's, given all of the above I suspect that I did not hear the WE's at their full potential. So I could not draw a definitive conclusion, I was also limited by the amount of hours that I was willing to leave the tubes on for taking into account they were not mine and together cost considerably more than the amps themselves.
  
 The good news is given the above I strongly suspect that the Takatsuki's do have the the Calcium Oxide coating either. One of the things that my friend and I have noticed is that they sound better and better the longer they are left on. Now this is unique, say 10 hours into a listening session they sound stronger than they did at 2 hours, on my other 300B's the opposite is true if I run them for more than 6-8 hours the sound gets worse. Not substantially worse but you can tell its time to switch off. They also do not last very long. Between Matt and I the rate of failures of other 300B's is not good, I recently had failures with Elrog's, KR's and Matt's had his issues with SERP's. Touch wood the Takatsuki's and Mullard's are easily the most reliable tubes I have.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> If I purchased those I would want to get buried with them.


 

 They are a good investment although that price is too high a really good set of WE 300B's right vintage etc you should be able to get for US $5-6,000. You are better off buying singles, they are cheaper, the matching thing is really a lot of rubbish sonically, they were all built to a very exacting standard and if they test well its highly likely they will be closely matched sonically.
  
 I would never buy off EBay for these tubes, there are a few good knowledgeable tube specialists who you can pay a deposit to and they will hunt them down for you. They travel to a lot tube swap meets etc and trail the deceased estate auctions. TBH that's how I have found most of my rare NOS tubes.
  
 Matching date codes _are an asset_ however. Makes you cry when you think what these things cost 10 years ago.


----------



## TonyNewman

Really looking forward to trying the Taks. I hope Takatsuki keep making them.
  
 Someone, somewhere, will have a crate of vintage WE300Bs sitting in an attic. Instead millionaire.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Really looking forward to trying the Taks. I hope Takatsuki keep making them.
> 
> Someone, somewhere, will have a crate of vintage WE300Bs sitting in an attic. Instead millionaire.


 
  
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=244821
  
 "I have found a gold mine in my grandfathers attic... Well I opened a box of tubes this morning and when I searched ebay I was speechless. I have about 100 or so Western Electric 300b tubes. brand new in the box. There are still about 30 or so boxes that I haven't even gotten to open yet so who knows what else is up there... Can someone point me in the right direction as to what I should do."
  
 Sigh.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=244821
> 
> "I have found a gold mine in my grandfathers attic... Well I opened a box of tubes this morning and when I searched ebay I was speechless. I have about 100 or so Western Electric 300b tubes. brand new in the box. There are still about 30 or so boxes that I haven't even gotten to open yet so who knows what else is up there... Can someone point me in the right direction as to what I should do."
> 
> Sigh.


 
  
 Lucky, lucky bugger. Have to think 5K minimum per tube if dribbled out via Ebay = 500K.
  
 Not a bad legacy to get.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
> 
> ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
> 
> ...


 

 Ok I see ecc31 - there is an adapter for them for 6sn7...? Compatible.  Has anyone tried an ecc31 in place of 6sn7 using an adapter?


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> Electrically internally yes, physically no.
> 
> The base and pins are different - the 274A does not have a centre guide like a 300B and the same 4 pins as a 300B.
> 
> ...


 
 Do they sound different... I guess so - any one know about the WEs?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
> ...


 

 The ECC31 has a common cathode what amp do you want to use this in?


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> The ECC31 has a common cathode what amp do you want to use this in?


 

 WA22 and WA5


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The ECC31 has a common cathode what amp do you want to use this in?
> ...


 

 Will not work in either one of those amps


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> Will not work in either one of those amps


 
 ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
  
 E80CC/6085 and 13D3 (These require a 12AU7 pin-adapter)
  
 And each of the following require different pin-adapters
  
 E182CC/7119 and 5687
 ECC40
 6463
 2C51
  
 Thanks.  Do you know if the above cannot either?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
> 
> E80CC/6085 and 13D3 (These require a 12AU7 pin-adapter)
> 
> ...


 
  
 As Glenn pointed out, the ECC31 has a common cathode. That is, the cathode is shared by both sections, so it cannot be used in a socket such as that for a 6SN7 which requires separate cathodes for each section.
  
 As to the triodes listed above, I have used all of these in one of Glenn's own OTLs. All that is necessary is an adapter that redirects the pins to a standard 6SN7 socket and these are readily available on eBay.
  
 For example, a 1975 Reflektor 6N23P (a Russian E88CC/6DJ8) using a 6CG7/6FQ7 to 6SN7 pin-adapter.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> As Glenn pointed out, the ECC31 has a common cathode. That is, the cathode is shared by both sections, so it cannot be used in a socket such as that for a 6SN7 which requires separate cathodes for each section.
> 
> As to the triodes listed above, I have used all of these in one of Glenn's own OTLs. All that is necessary is an adapter that redirects the pins to a standard 6SN7 socket and these are readily available on eBay.
> 
> For example, a 1975 Reflektor 6N23P (a Russian E88CC/6DJ8) using a 6CG7/6FQ7 to 6SN7 pin-adapter.


 

 I saw a ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter on ebay - that's why I asked. Ok thanks saved me money. Nice amp.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I saw a ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter on ebay - that's why I asked. Ok thanks saved me money. Nice amp.


 
  
 An ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter on eBay? Yes, I just found them.... I have no idea how they have wired these.... And I am not sure I trust it.... Also, the ECC31 heater pulls 1.0 Amps compared to 0.6 Amps for a 6SN7. So even if the adapter works, you would need to be sure that your Woos can handle the additional current draw. My Glenn can, as I can run BL63/VR102, which draws 1.3 Amps, but again, I am very reluctant to trust these ECC31 adapters....


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > I saw a ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter on ebay - that's why I asked. Ok thanks saved me money. Nice amp.
> ...


 

 This is the wrong thread to be discussing this should be on the 6SN7 thread.
 Ken you can make a adapter that connects the ECC31 cathode to both 6SN7 cathodes and it will work in your amp don't know the SQ
 You have plenty of current in the filament supply to power this tube.
 It should also work in the WA22 by doing the same just not Shure about the increased filament current. But a no go for the WA5.


----------



## gibosi

Thanks for the info, Glenn. I think I will look into the ECC31 further....
  
 But yes, too much talk about triodes in a rectifier thread! So in an attempt to get things back on track...
  
 While I really like the GZ32 in my Glenn OTL, I would love to try a Brimar 5V4G. However, it simply cannot provide enough current to run my amp. It is unfortunate that some vendors erroneously call the 5V4G a GZ32, because due to the fact that they have different output current specifications, it is not a true plug-in replacement in all applications. The American designation for the GZ32 is, in fact, 5AQ4, but to the best of my knowledge, no American manufacturer produced this tube. Every "American" 5AQ4 I have seen so far is a rebranded European or Russian tube.
  
 And even though the GZ32 is my default rectifier, there are certain tube combinations in the Glenn that require even more current than the GZ32 can provide, and in those instances I have to use a different rectifier, usually a GZ33 or GZ37.


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> Thanks for the info, Glenn. I think I will look into the ECC31 further....
> 
> But yes, too much talk about triodes in a rectifier thread! So in an attempt to get things back on track...
> 
> ...


 

 Also the 3DG4 can handle the current


----------



## abvolt

I picked this NU 5U4G up today and out of all the other 5U4G's I own this is by far the best sounding I've got surprised just how nice & deep the bass is with this rectifier, just showing that even really cheap tubes like this 9. NU can can be worth getting sometimes, I consider this a great find for me anyway..


----------



## TonyNewman

abvolt said:


> I picked this NU 5U4G up today and out of all the other 5U4G's I own this is by far the best sounding I've got surprised just how nice & deep the bass is with this rectifier, just showing that even really cheap tubes like this 9. NU can can be worth getting sometimes, I consider this a great find for me anyway..


 
 Nice! Thanks for sharing. I had no idea NU made such an animal.
  
 Have you had a chance to compare it with the Brimar?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Nice! Thanks for sharing. I had no idea NU made such an animal.
> 
> Have you had a chance to compare it with the Brimar?


 

 Kinda looks like the Sylvania 5U4. But I'm not sure. Very interesting.


----------



## abvolt

I have a pair of the sylvania's and I like this one more even though  I've only spent like 90 minutes listening. I really like the brimar cv1863 so I can't say which I prefer yet..


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> These are those hilarious metal RCA 5V4s we were talking about on the 6SN7 thread... they're not gonna win any SQ awards but don't sound half-bad for the (dirt-cheap) price. Anyways, I like them for the novelty value.


 
 Just put in a RCA 5Z4 rectifier in the WA22  sounds good but it gets very hot so hot paint is smoking did you notice this .                                
  


stereolab42 said:


> These are those hilarious metal RCA 5V4s we were talking about on the 6SN7 thread... they're not gonna win any SQ awards but don't sound half-bad for the (dirt-cheap) price. Anyways, I like them for the novelty value.


 
  


stereolab42 said:


> These are those hilarious metal RCA 5V4s we were talking about on the 6SN7 thread... they're not gonna win any SQ awards but don't sound half-bad for the (dirt-cheap) price. Anyways, I like them for the novelty value.


 
  
 Quote:Originally Posted by *Stereolab42* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    
 These are those hilarious metal RCA 5V4s we were talking about on the 6SN7 thread... they're not gonna win any SQ awards but don't sound half-bad for the (dirt-cheap) price. Anyways, I like them for the novelty value.


----------



## Stereolab42

mikelap said:


> Just put in a RCA 5Z4 rectifier in the WA22  sounds good but it gets very hot so hot paint is smoking did you notice this .


 
  
 I did notice an odd smell that could be some of the paint outgassing... but I figured this was OK since these are real NOS NIB tubes and it would go away in time. Also acc to my heat gun meter the surface only reached about 190 degrees or so, which is the same temp my glass rectifiers reach, so I concluded that things were operating properly. (My tube tester concurred.) Certainly there was no visible smoke being produced. I would suggest picking up a Fluke heat gun meter and seeing how hot your tubes get, I've caught a couple of dodgy tubes these way.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just put in a RCA 5Z4 rectifier in the WA22  sounds good but it gets very hot so hot paint is smoking did you notice this .
> ...


 
 i tested at 180 celcius or 350 farenheit your measurement is in celcius also now that's hot .power tubes are at 100 and 6c8g are at 40 celcius interesting


----------



## 2359glenn

stereolab42 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just put in a RCA 5Z4 rectifier in the WA22  sounds good but it gets very hot so hot paint is smoking did you notice this .
> ...


 

 These tubes normally get very hot the smell will go away after awhile. They came out during WW2 to replace the 5U4G
 They might help with the hum people are getting using 6F8 adapters in the WA22. These tubes are shielded reducing the hum that a 5U4 radiates
 being picked up by the grid lead for the 6F8 that are to close to the 5U4.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> These tubes normally get very hot the smell will go away after awhile. They came out during WW2 to replace the 5U4G
> They might help with the hum people are getting using 6F8 adapters in the WA22. These tubes are shielded reducing the hum that a 5U4 radiates
> being picked up by the grid lead for the 6F8 that are to close to the 5U4.


 
  
 I have never got a hum of your well made adapters Glenn.
  
 In actual fact before I got your adapters my remote control lights would send a static sound through the system (Chinese eSlay adapters). I changed to yours and the lights don't do anything now. So obviously your adapters are better shielded.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > These tubes normally get very hot the smell will go away after awhile. They came out during WW2 to replace the 5U4G
> ...


 

 Not with my adapters that are made to keep the grid leads away from the 5U4 on the WA22
 But there is a problem with other adapters.  I was going to mention this tube for the WA22 a couple of years ago
 but then thought why would I want to do that.


----------



## Stereolab42

mikelap said:


> i tested at 180 celcius or 350 farenheit your measurement is in celcius also now that's hot .power tubes are at 100 and 6c8g are at 40 celcius interesting


 
  
 Nope, my measurements were in Farenheit, 190 degrees. You are pulling 350 Farenheit??? That's VERY wrong, that's instant 3rd-degree burn on skin and not terribly far away from setting paper on fire. When I owned my WA22 I also measured rectifier tube heat and never saw beyond 190-230 in normal operation. What do your other rectifiers measure?


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Nope, my measurements were in Farenheit, 190 degrees. You are pulling 350 Farenheit??? That's VERY wrong, that's instant 3rd-degree burn on skin and not terribly far away from setting paper on fire. When I owned my WA22 I also measured rectifier tube heat and never saw beyond 190-230 in normal operation. What do your other rectifiers measure?


 
  
 The metric system is a wonderful thing. If only you Yanks would catch up


----------



## spook76

tonynewman said:


> The metric system is a wonderful thing. If only you Yanks would catch up :wink_face:



Keep dreaming. 

The "all powerful" Federal government in the U.S. tried to force the metric system on us back in the late 1970's. It was an unmitigated disaster. For example, housewives were used to buying in the Imperial system to feed their families and all recipe books were in Imperial baulked at changing. The Carter administration was forced to cancel the lunacy. It was a disaster initially in the UK after the EU "unification" but the Blair government plowed ahead regardless. 

Remember the seller has to learn the buyer's language or measurement system.


----------



## abvolt

The power tubes should run a lot warmer then the rectifier mine do. The rectifier seems to run at 125C whereas the power tubes are 160C I measured at the center of my tubes using a raytek gun, they sure do get hot..


----------



## Seamaster

spook76 said:


> Keep dreaming.
> 
> The "all powerful" Federal government in the U.S. tried to force the metric system on us back in the late 1970's. It was an unmitigated disaster. For example, housewives were used to buying in the Imperial system to feed their families and all recipe books were in Imperial baulked at changing. The Carter administration was forced to cancel the lunacy. It was a disaster initially in the UK after the EU "unification" but the Blair government plowed ahead regardless.
> 
> Remember the seller has to learn the buyer's language or measurement system.




Short pain, long gain, they don't get it.


----------



## 2359glenn

spook76 said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > The metric system is a wonderful thing. If only you Yanks would catch up
> ...


 

 When I build amps I do it in metric easier for me it is very simple
 but I use US screws not as easy to get metric ones


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i tested at 180 celcius or 350 farenheit your measurement is in celcius also now that's hot .power tubes are at 100 and 6c8g are at 40 celcius interesting
> ...


 

 I checked a few rectifiers and these reading are the hottest i came up with  the the RCA 5z4- 330F,  G.E.5AW4- 335F,  274B S.P.- 210F,  FIVRE 5Z4G- 295F,


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> I checked a few rectifiers and these reading are the hottest i came up with  the the RCA 5z4- 330F,  G.E.5AW4- 335F,  274B S.P.- 210F,  FIVRE 5Z4G- 295F,


 
  
 Apologies for getting a little OT here.
  
 The SERP 300Bs get significantly hotter than any other 300B I have used, and a step up in heat output from any rectifier I have used also. Those things will burn you instantly if you are silly enough to touch them after warm up.
  
 Even the SERPs are nothing compared to the heat coming from my 845 tubes when I had the 845 power amp. That thing was like an indoor BBQ. 100W of heat (approx) from each tube. Couldn't run the thing without AC running in summer. Love my tubes, but 845s (and larger) are insane. Shudder to think what running WE212s would be like.
  
 Never leave a 300B or 845 amp running unattended and think long and hard if you have cats or young children in the house. Hot + fragile glass + high voltages (esp in an 845 amp) is not a great mix.


----------



## MIKELAP

I just sent an e-mail to Woo Audio regarding rectifier temperature will see what they say . Amp seems to be working ok .


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> I just sent an e-mail to Woo Audio regarding rectifier temperature will see what they say . Amp seems to be working ok .


 

 Already got a response from Woo regarding 5z4 heat this is the e-mail he sent


----------



## Stereolab42

Still a mystery why the 5z4 on my WA5 only gets to 190F while it gets to 330F on your WA22.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> I just sent an e-mail to Woo Audio regarding rectifier temperature will see what they say . Amp seems to be working ok .


 
  
 Your amp is looking way cool by the way. How does the RCA rectifier sound? How is it compared to the Brimar 5Z4GY?


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> Still a mystery why the 5z4 on my WA5 only gets to 190F while it gets to 330F on your WA22.


 

 Sent Woo another e-mail about this waiting for an answer. i dont know but maybe its the fact you have 2 rectifiers that it doesnt get as hot .Hopefully well know soon enough.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> Still a mystery why the 5z4 on my WA5 only gets to 190F while it gets to 330F on your WA22.


 

 Got a response from Woo Audio here's the e-mail.


----------



## jhljhl

Hi, can anyone tell me 1) the differences structural and sonic too between a Western Electric 274a and 274b?
  
 and 2) does anyone know if this is a mullard- it has cup getter and no codes?


----------



## Stereolab42

mikelap said:


> Got a response from Woo Audio here's the e-mail.


 
  
 Interesting. Another reason to buy a WA5, your rectifiers will live longer and your burns will be less severe.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> does anyone know if this is a mullard- it has cup getter and no codes?


 
  
 None of my Mullard GZ32 have cup getters, but that doesn't prove anything....  The one pictured may well be older than mine. Do you have physical access to this tube? If so, can you make out the Mullard/Philips production code etched into the glass? If it was manufactured by Mullard, the first line will likely read: "R70". And the second line will likely begin with a "B" followed by a number and then a letter.
  
 Edit: Oh, I just noticed you wrote "no codes". If it is a true Mullard, it will have the Mullard production code. Of course, it is possible that the codes have worn off...  On the other hand, I remembering seeing a Philips Miniwatt GZ32 with cup getters. As it was only a picture, I have no idea where it was manufactured....


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> None of my Mullard GZ32 have cup getters, but that doesn't prove anything....  The one pictured may well be older than mine. Do you have physical access to this tube? If so, can you make out the Mullard/Philips production code etched into the glass? If it was manufactured by Mullard, the first line will likely read: "R70". And the second line will likely begin with a "B" followed by a number and then a letter.
> 
> Edit: Oh, I just noticed you wrote "no codes". If it is a true Mullard, it will have the Mullard production code. Of course, it is possible that the codes have worn off...  On the other hand, I remembering seeing a Philips Miniwatt GZ32 with cup getters. As it was only a picture, I have no idea where it was manufactured....


 

 I bought it and a few hours listening it is more neutral in the mids though they are there.  I'm going to guess it is philips made as there are no angled cuts either on the plates.  I like it is expansive and a little less warm than the mullard gz32 I've heard.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I bought it and a few hours listening it is more neutral in the mids though they are there.  I'm going to guess it is philips made as there are no angled cuts either on the plates.  I like it is expansive and a little less warm than the mullard gz32 I've heard.


 
  
 I was going to say about the cuts in the plates also.
  
 To me it looks like a Mazda.
  
 I have one here at work with me labeled up Miniwatt / Dario. Same plates, same micras just a different glass bottle and getters. I'm not a fan of the rectifier and this one does sound leaner also.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I bought it and a few hours listening it is more neutral in the mids though they are there.  I'm going to guess it is philips made as there are no angled cuts either on the plates.  I like it is expansive and a little less warm than the mullard gz32 I've heard.


 
  
 If it was Philips-made, there should a Philips production code, but instead of a B for Blackburn, there would be the symbol for a different Philips factory. Since there isn't any visible code on this rectifier, I'm inclined to agree that Mazda France is distinct possibility.


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## Badas

^
  
 That's a Mullard. All this talking on Mullard makes me want to roll them back in. I like the Brimar too much tho.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> If it was Philips-made, there should a Philips production code, but instead of a B for Blackburn, there would be the symbol for a different Philips factory. Since there isn't any visible code on this rectifier, I'm inclined to agree that Mazda France is distinct possibility.


 

 I bought three from the same seller all boxed up in original mullard packaging straight halfway around the world from new zealand.  I could see that it was not a typical mullard structure but took a chance anyway. 
 I think it's a cifte...
  
  
 Of the other two is a matched pair: One has typical mullard structure but the etch codes are missing but the other identical has just barely noticeable codes so I can see how the other's had faded off. 
  
 I noticed that some mullard gz32 on ebay have circle getters and some rectangles.


----------



## jhljhl

Thanks for the earlier replies.  What about these - who are the mfr?


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> ^
> 
> That's a Mullard. All this talking on Mullard makes me want to roll them back in. I like the Brimar too much tho.


 

 Actually it kind of reminds me of the difference from going from a mullard 6922 or 12ax7 tube to a telefunken: it's just more neutral and so a little more extended.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Actually it kind of reminds me of the difference from going from a mullard 6922 or 12ax7 tube to a telefunken: it's just more neutral and so a little more extended.


 

 Yeah. I know what you are meaning. Probably why I didn't like them. I hear very high frequencies. High treble gives me headaches. I'm a bit of a freak like that.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I noticed that some mullard gz32 on ebay have circle getters and some rectangles.


 
  
 Generally, with respect to the GZ32, rectangular getters are 1950s production and circle getters are 1960s.
  


jhljhl said:


> Thanks for the earlier replies.  What about these - who are the mfr?


 
  
 Are there any production codes? Rectangular getters? Circle? Flying saucer?
  
 Halton never manufactured tubes, they bought and resold tubes from any and all the manufacturers. So without some detective work there is no way to know who made these. I have no experience with the 5V4G as it cannot provide enough current to run my amp, but maybe others might recognize this tube.


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> Generally, with respect to the GZ32, rectangular getters are 1950s production and circle getters are 1960s.
> 
> 
> Are there any production codes? Rectangular getters? Circle? Flying saucer?
> ...


 

 These are cup getters.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> These are cup getters.


 
  
 If it looks like the old British cup getters, then it likely was manufactured by a British company. If it looks like what many of us call a "flying saucer", it was likely manufactured using Russian factory equipment, and probably wasn't manufactured in Britain contrary to what is printed on the tube.
  
 For example, a Russian 5AQ4/GZ32:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-to-50-GZ32-5AQ4-5V4G-U-S-S-R-1974-Matched-Rectifier-Tubes-NOS-NIB-/301605548001?


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> If it looks like the old British cup getters, then it likely was manufactured by a British company. If it looks like what many of us call a "flying saucer", it was likely manufactured using Russian factory equipment, and probably wasn't manufactured in Britain contrary to what is printed on the tube.
> 
> For example, a Russian 5AQ4/GZ32:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-to-50-GZ32-5AQ4-5V4G-U-S-S-R-1974-Matched-Rectifier-Tubes-NOS-NIB-/301605548001?


 
  
 I see that they are cup getters. 
  
 Also have you or anyone tried a telefunken gz32?


----------



## Seamaster

Beware there were Mullard made in Australia. I had one Mullard 5AR4 that was made in Australia, not as good as the British ones.


----------



## gibosi

And I would add, rebranding was very common at that time. I have yet to see a Telefunken GZ32 that carries the standard Telefunken production code. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they never made the GZ32, but simply purchased and rebranded from others.


----------



## jhljhl

seamaster said:


> Beware there were Mullard made in Australia. I had one Mullard 5AR4 that was made in Australia, not as good as the British ones.


 
 Actually they both have blackburn codes I was not lookingly closely enough.  Really a mullard from australia was there codes?


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> And I would add, rebranding was very common at that time. I have yet to see a Telefunken GZ32 that carries the standard Telefunken production code. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they never made the GZ32, but simply purchased and rebranded from others.


 
 I guess they aren't made by telefunken just a rebrand. But I see these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-GZ32-5V4G-CV593-NOS-late-60ies-super-rare-German-Navy-tubes-/201050887773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecf91165d


----------



## Oskari

jhljhl said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-GZ32-5V4G-CV593-NOS-late-60ies-super-rare-German-Navy-tubes-/201050887773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecf91165d




French Mazda/Belvu/CIFTEs.


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> French Mazda/Belvu/CIFTEs.




Yes. I agree. I have two of these. Exactly the same. Named Dario Miniwatt. 

Not a nice sounding tube. They were removed very quickly.


----------



## bassboysam

I just ordered a Brimar 5R4GY for my WA-6, looking forward to hearing it. I currently have a Canadian made Rogers/Philips 5U4 which I really like. Just for fun I took the JJ 5u4GB from my bass amp and plugged it into the WA-6. Don't laugh but it sounds quite good! Especially when you consider the price. Definitely better than the stock winged C that came with the amp.


----------



## abvolt

You'll really like the brimar it sounds very nice..


----------



## Stereolab42

Speaking of Brimars...
  

  
 That gives me 7 pairs total. Great tubes. I wonder how many more Langrex has?


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Speaking of Brimars...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




About 1200 when I spoke to James a few weeks ago. 

The latest burst on this tube sold 250 of them.


----------



## abvolt

Anyone here ever try a gz33 mullard just wondering how they sound..


----------



## bassboysam

bassboysam said:


> I just ordered a Brimar 5R4GY for my WA-6, looking forward to hearing it. I currently have a Canadian made Rogers/Philips 5U4 which I really like. Just for fun I took the JJ 5u4GB from my bass amp and plugged it into the WA-6. Don't laugh but it sounds quite good! Especially when you consider the price. Definitely better than the stock winged C that came with the amp.


 
  
  
 Brimar arrived, it is 5Z4 I don't know why I said 5R4GY earlier.  Anyway initial impressions are it has more bass and a more lush full sound compared to my Philips 5U4.  The Philips is more crisp and airy without being harsh, the Brimar really makes the WA6 sound more tube-like (6FD7 Fat bottle driver tubes).
  
  
 edit:  the bass impact and depth with the LCD-2 is something else...just perfect for me.


----------



## Badas

bassboysam said:


> Brimar arrived, it is 5Z4 I don't know why I said 5R4GY earlier.  Anyway initial impressions are it has more bass and a more lush full sound compared to my Philips 5U4.  The Philips is more crisp and airy without being harsh, the Brimar really makes the WA6 sound more tube-like (6FD7 Fat bottle driver tubes).
> 
> 
> edit:  the bass impact and depth with the LCD-2 is something else...just perfect for me.


 
  
 That's a good discription. I find it very dynamic as well. Glad you are enjoying.


----------



## jhljhl

Tried an rk60 with adapter.  I'm enjoying it- it sounds slightly warmer than 596 with a slightly more intimate sound stage.


----------



## bassboysam

I've only tried the stock tube and this JAN tube. the difference was very subtle. the JAN had a bit more neutral sound with a bit less mid-bass and smoother treble. but again it's a very slight difference.
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JAN-Philips-6922-Low-Noise


----------



## jhljhl

I thought the Western Electric 422a was a very dynamic rectifier with layers of details.  The Western Electric 274b is like a much more refined or sophisticated 422a.  Though you might actually prefer the 422a for "rawer" feel for say hard rock. These are both incredible rectifiers.


----------



## jibzilla

jhljhl said:


> I thought the Western Electric 422a was a very dynamic rectifier with layers of details.  The Western Electric 274b is like a much more refined or sophisticated 422a.  Though you might actually prefer the 422a for "rawer" feel for say hard rock. These are both incredible rectifiers.


 
  
 Just got your 422a. Time to give her a test run.


----------



## jhljhl

jibzilla said:


> Just got your 422a. Time to give her a test run.


 
   
 

 You are in for a treat if you've never heard one before.  The 422a is one of the best rectifiers there is- it offers separation of layers of dynamics.  But the 274b just adds touches of refinement and sophistication.  Both are really the tops!


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> I thought the Western Electric 422a was a very dynamic rectifier with layers of details.  The Western Electric 274b is like a much more refined or sophisticated 422a.  Though you might actually prefer the 422a for "rawer" feel for say hard rock. These are both incredible rectifiers.


 

 Found the 274B much more to my liking, agree its not as raw as the 422a but were only talking degree's here. The Takatsuki 274B actually sounded smoother than both.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Found the 274B much more to my liking, agree its not as raw as the 422a but were only talking degree's here. The Takatsuki 274B actually sounded smoother than both.


 
  
 The wait for the Taks is audiophile torture - really looking forward to putting the TA300Bs and TA274Bs in the WA5 and hearing the result. I think it will blow me clean away (in a good way)


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> The wait for the Taks is audiophile torture - really looking forward to putting the TA300Bs and TA274Bs in the WA5 and hearing the result. I think it will blow me clean away (in a good way)


 

 I am sure you will be very happy
  
 PS only just got back from Sydney - they will be leaving, going tomorrow, sorry for the delay mate


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I am sure you will be very happy
> 
> PS only just got back from Sydney - they will be leaving, going tomorrow, sorry for the delay mate


 
  
 No drama 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They will sound all the better for the extended anticipation


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> Found the 274B much more to my liking, agree its not as raw as the 422a but were only talking degree's here. The Takatsuki 274B actually sounded smoother than both.


 

 I think it is fine as long as the "smoothness" does not distort detail.  I like how the 422a reproduces and separates the layers of sound - the 274b is refined but without detracting too much by glossing over detail.  Now I'm interested in trying the Japanese tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > Found the 274B much more to my liking, agree its not as raw as the 422a but were only talking degree's here. The Takatsuki 274B actually sounded smoother than both.
> ...


 

 Most people don't know it the 422A really needs a adapter to sound it's best pins 2 & 8 are reversed compared to other
 rectifiers. Most amps take the DC off pin 8 the 422 has the cathode hooked to pin2. So the DC has to go through the heater
 or the 5 volt filament winding of the power transformer.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> Most people don't know it the 422A really needs a adapter to sound it's best pins 2 & 8 are reversed compared to other
> rectifiers. Most amps take the DC off pin 8 the 422 has the cathode hooked to pin2. So the DC has to go through the heater
> or the 5 volt filament winding of the power transformer.


 

 Hi Glenn, I've used Glenn's adapter with the 422a and it makes the background blacker on my WA22.  Thanks again Glenn.


----------



## isquirrel

2359glenn said:


> Most people don't know it the 422A really needs a adapter to sound it's best pins 2 & 8 are reversed compared to other
> rectifiers. Most amps take the DC off pin 8 the 422 has the cathode hooked to pin2. So the DC has to go through the heater
> or the 5 volt filament winding of the power transformer.


 

 Thanks Glenn you are the resident Genius around here, thank you I did't know that.


----------



## jhljhl

I tried a Sylvania 274b tube.  It is depending on how you look at it a less airy or more focused sounding WE274b but still with refine detail.  It is a more affordable but very competent alternative 274b.


----------



## abvolt

is that the 5z3 sylvania your talking about.


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> is that the 5z3 sylvania your talking about.


 

 No. It is a Sylvania 274b.
 Like this one: http://www.tubebrokers.com/sylvania-274b-rectifier-1942-1945/


----------



## abvolt

thanks


----------



## bassboysam

are there any real differences between these two Brimars?


----------



## Badas

^
  
 I have listed to both. They sounded the same to me. I noticed the black base had black plates and the brown had grey. So I was listening for differences. I didn't notice anything.


----------



## abvolt

I recently found these at a junk sale 3 1943,48,62 RCA 5V4G's, these tubes are so very nice sounding, I've been listening to a 1942 RCA 5U4G for the past few weeks which sounds great also I have a nice collection of 5U4G's and imo think the 5V4G's have  better top end and clairty and deeper bass then any of my 5U4G's in fact the 5V4G's bass 
 impact is one of the best I've heard.
  
 I have a lot of fun listening to this tube if you've never tried one you owe it to yourself to get one there an inexpensive tube, I now perfer the 5V4G over any of my 5U4G's.
 Here's my current combo 1943 RCA 5V4G, a pair of 1942 Sylvania VT-99's and a pair of 1948 RCA 6AS7G's what a great match for jazz so smoooth..


----------



## HeadJammie

How do i get my hands on a WE422A adapter?


----------



## HeadJammie

I have tried the WE274A, WE274B,WE422A, Cossor 53KU and GEC U52 in my WA22. I liked the WE tubes best especially with WE421A's and TS 6SN7GT black glass with round not oval plates.

I sold the We274A and 274b as the difference with the 422A couldn't justify the price difference. This is why I curious about the adapter. I also find the GEC U52 great on certain tupes of music but find the 422A more versatile.


----------



## bassboysam

Could anyone compare the Brimar 5Z4GY and the Brimar 5R4GY?  How different or similar are they?  is the 5R4GY worth the extra cost?


----------



## abvolt

Here's a pic of that rectifier looks very cool at night..


----------



## HeadJammie

That is a beautiful sight. Got to find one.


----------



## abvolt

it's the brightest rectifier I've got almost read by it Lol..


----------



## HeadJammie

Your own personal fireplace. All you need is a loved one to cosy up by and a bottle of wine.


----------



## jhljhl

Mullard GZ30 I got from Langrex sounds very nice in a decware taboo mkIII.  Does not have a wide sound stage but it still has a very good balanced sound stage also in height with surprisingly rich bass.


----------



## HeadJammie

Anybody on how to get the 422A adaptor?


----------



## 2359glenn

headjammie said:


> Anybody on how to get the 422A adaptor?


 

 PM me


----------



## San Raal

badas said:


> ^
> 
> I have listed to both. They sounded the same to me. I noticed the black base had black plates and the brown had grey. So I was listening for differences. I didn't notice anything.


 
  
 I found the same when comparing the black and brown base 5Z4GY


----------



## San Raal

tonynewman said:


> The wait for the Taks is audiophile torture - really looking forward to putting the TA300Bs and TA274Bs in the WA5 and hearing the result. I think it will blow me clean away (in a good way)


 
  
 I am sure you will be delighted with the result, though my condolences for your wallet!


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> I am sure you will be delighted with the result, though my condolences for your wallet!


 
  
 Wallet survived, but it was near thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My ears are thanking me. TS RP + TA300B + TA274B is rather good. Not fully stabilised yet, but already the sound is quite something.


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I recently found these at a junk sale 3 1943,48,62 RCA 5V4G's, these tubes are so very nice sounding, I've been listening to a 1942 RCA 5U4G for the past few weeks which sounds great also I have a nice collection of 5U4G's and imo think the 5V4G's have  better top end and clairty and deeper bass then any of my 5U4G's in fact the 5V4G's bass
> impact is one of the best I've heard.
> 
> I have a lot of fun listening to this tube if you've never tried one you owe it to yourself to get one there an inexpensive tube, I now perfer the 5V4G over any of my 5U4G's.
> ...



Agreed.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Mullard GZ30 I got from Langrex sounds very nice in a decware taboo mkIII.  Does not have a wide sound stage but it still has a very good balanced sound stage also in height with surprisingly rich bass.



Got a 30 from them also. Very nice. And for the price.


----------



## 3083joe

bassboysam said:


> Could anyone compare the Brimar 5Z4GY and the Brimar 5R4GY?  How different or similar are they?  is the 5R4GY worth the extra cost?



For me they are both nice. But I keep coming back to the 5r4. Think is a little wider and has more air. 
Similar to gz37 but with more clarity.


----------



## Khragon

Selling my WE422A, I got a pair, grey plate.  I got tester and both tested great.
 Will post on the for sale forum as soon as I took some pictures.  If you're interested give me a pm, not sure what to price them at yet.


----------



## HeadJammie

Definitely interested.


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> Selling my WE422A, I got a pair, grey plate.  I got tester and both tested great.
> Will post on the for sale forum as soon as I took some pictures.  If you're interested give me a pm, not sure what to price them at yet.



Would like to have just one.....


----------



## jibzilla

khragon said:


> Selling my WE422A, I got a pair, grey plate.  I got tester and both tested great.
> Will post on the for sale forum as soon as I took some pictures.  If you're interested give me a pm, not sure what to price them at yet.


 
  
 I just got a single for $425 and I'm pretty happy with it. Even happier with a adapter from glenn. Thanks glenn.


----------



## 3083joe

jibzilla said:


> I just got a single for $425 and I'm pretty happy with it. Even happier with a adapter from glenn. Thanks glenn.



Nice deal. Need to find one.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Nice deal. Need to find one.


 

 Hi, I sold Jibzilla that 422a.  I have a matched pair for sale now in the classifieds.  I may be willing to break up the pair.  You can pm me if you want and may be we can work something out.


----------



## Khragon

headjammie said:


> Definitely interested.


 
  


3083joe said:


> Would like to have just one.....


 
  
 I'll sell single, I posted my ad here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/776361/western-electric-422a


----------



## jibzilla

Wow it is not often this many 422a's come out the wood work at around $400... Might have to get a backup...


----------



## Khragon

Sold my wa5, so don't need these anymore. I may regret selling later in, but need the money for other purchases.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Sold my wa5, so don't need these anymore. I may regret selling later in, but need the money for other purchases.


 
  
 Can I be nosey and ask what amp you are moving on to?


----------



## Khragon

Don't want to high jack this thread, so I'll pm you, and update my sig.

Back to we422a, they are as good as dubstep girl description, reason I got 2 is because I tried one on wa22 and it was so good I got to have them on wa5.


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> Don't want to high jack this thread, so I'll pm you, and update my sig.
> 
> Back to we422a, they are as good as dubstep girl description, reason I got 2 is because I tried one on wa22 and it was so good I got to have them on wa5.


 
  
 I have a matched pair of 422a NOS black plates I am selling in my sig.  I also have a pair of NOS grey plates matched pair.  I am considering getting the WA5.  I have a WA22 so was considering upgrading to the WA5.  I actually considered purchasing yours in the classified.  How did you like the WA5 with and without the 422a?


----------



## Khragon

We422a improvement over my other favorites, the Mullard gz32, isn't as pronounced on the wa5 as much as on the wa22. I can live without we422a on the wa5 but not on the wa22. So in a way you can justify the wa5 (old) pricing by the fact that it sounded pretty good already with much cheaper rectifier (still need 2x). Sorry our discussion didn't work out, my wa5 could of be yours already since you're one of the first to offer.


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> We422a improvement over my other favorites, the Mullard gz32, isn't as pronounced on the wa5 as much as on the wa22. I can live without we422a on the wa5 but not on the wa22. So in a way you can justify the wa5 (old) pricing by the fact that it sounded pretty good already with much cheaper rectifier (still need 2x). Sorry our discussion didn't work out, my wa5 could of be yours already since you're one of the first to offer.




My question is what's the we422 sound like in wa6 and is it worth it?


----------



## Khragon

Sorry can't help you there, never own wa6. But we422a is a very popular tube, for good reason, and you can resell it later at little or no loss to you if you don't like it. I am confident once you listen to it you'll go out to buy a back up one .


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> My question is what's the we422 sound like in wa6 and is it worth it?


 
  
 That's a rectifier worth almost as much (or the same, or more?) than the amp. Only you can decide if the SQ improvement is worth it.
  
 My 2 cents - that is perhaps a waste of good glass. Just for fun, I put a TA274B into my WA6 (a rectifier almost twice the cost of that amp). The SQ took a leap upwards, for sure, but a lot of what the TA274B can do is going to waste because the WA6+HD600 combination just can't deliver all that the TA274B can provide. I quickly put the TA274B back in the WA5 and the Brimar back in the WA6. YMMV (as always).


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> That's a rectifier worth almost as much (or the same, or more?) than the amp. Only you can decide if the SQ improvement is worth it.
> 
> My 2 cents - that is perhaps a waste of good glass. Just for fun, I put a TA274B into my WA6 (a rectifier almost twice the cost of that amp). The SQ took a leap upwards, for sure, but a lot of what the TA274B can do is going to waste because the WA6+HD600 combination just can't deliver all that the TA274B can provide. I quickly put the TA274B back in the WA5 and the Brimar back in the WA6. YMMV (as always).


 

 Thanks, 
 Hope to upgrade to Glenns amp or wa22, love to have wa5 but might be over my head
 Glenns 300b is cheaper too, just don't know that i want to go there with the cost of 300s


----------



## 3083joe

Quick question, can the Mullard ecc32 drop in on Wa6 with the 6sn7 adapters?
 TIA


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Thanks,
> Hope to upgrade to Glenns amp or wa22, love to have wa5 but might be over my head
> Glenns 300b is cheaper too, just don't know that i want to go there with the cost of 300s


 
  
 The Glenn 300B amp makes a lot of sense to me (since I am having one made very soon I probably should say that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).
  
 The PY500 rectifiers are cheap and readily available. The C3G drivers are wondrous tubes, but they are starting to get a little pricey. Nothing like the TS RP, of course, but I am glad I have stocked up on them over the past few months.
  
 The only really pricey component is the 300B. I know it is a big investment, but I am going to go right out and say that the TA300B is stunningly good. Having heard this tube in my WA5 I have little interest in putting anything else in my Glenn 300B amp (perhaps ER300B, if Elrog can address the recent reliability issues). I will keep my SERPs as backup in case the unthinkable happens, otherwise it is TA300B all the way. I already have a factory new set ready for burn in as soon as the amp arrives.


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> We422a improvement over my other favorites, the Mullard gz32, isn't as pronounced on the wa5 as much as on the wa22. I can live without we422a on the wa5 but not on the wa22. So in a way you can justify the wa5 (old) pricing by the fact that it sounded pretty good already with much cheaper rectifier (still need 2x). Sorry our discussion didn't work out, my wa5 could of be yours already since you're one of the first to offer.


 

 It made a huge difference in my WA22 so I thought it might do the same in the WA5  (I thought the 300b would add to that as well).  The WE274b were really good too.  I wasn't sure about the WA5 b/c of the cost of the 300b.  I'm surprised the 422a can be comparable to the mullard gz32 because in the WA22 the 422a is to me dramatically better.


----------



## Khragon

On the WA5, we422a still have similar change going from gz32 compare to wa22, the sound stage opens up, increased in clarity, but just not as drastic on the wa5. Maybe because of the driver that I used (cg3), not sure.


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> On the WA5, we422a still have similar change going from gz32 compare to wa22, the sound stage opens up, increased in clarity, but just not as drastic on the wa5. Maybe because of the driver that I used (cg3), not sure.


 
 I'm so impressed by these rectifiers that I would recommend others who have the budget to just jump ahead first to the WE 422a or 274b and then go back to try other ones.  Counter intuitively, I think it would have saved me more money.  I had a Cavalli LAu/Abyss and I think after a certain price point there are diminishing returns as just about everyone has noted. I don't suppose any more different than moving up the line of bmw etc. 
  
 So for me the wa22 with 422a; 421 power tubes; tsrp 6f8g and hd800 with endorphin cable and lcd3f with alo cable I am already at end game territory.   I was thinking about going up the line to wa5 or eddie current etc just more out of curiosity than anything else and the fact that some amps can power speakers- which saves space and more convenient.
  
 Anyone else reach a point where they are at end game territory but are considering upgrading purely out of _curiosity_ because there are no audio amp stores around?  I know there are hi-fi meet ups kind of speed dating equipment as is the status quo of this industry/hobby but if there were a store where you could go and quietly take a listen for an hour you could easily pick out your favorite.


----------



## jhljhl

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTREMELY-RARE-NOS-NIB-BENDIX-MU-TYPE-596-USA-24289-RECTIFIER-TUBE-MINT-COND-/301709386900?hash=item463f47e494&autorefresh=true
  
  
 Anyone know about these?


----------



## San Raal

jhljhl said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTREMELY-RARE-NOS-NIB-BENDIX-MU-TYPE-596-USA-24289-RECTIFIER-TUBE-MINT-COND-/301709386900?hash=item463f47e494&autorefresh=true
> 
> 
> Anyone know about these?


 

 The internal structure at a causual glance looks identical to the 596 I have and the pair I recently sold.
  
 $700 is a ridiculous eye gouging price to charge for this tube.


----------



## jhljhl

san raal said:


> The internal structure at a causual glance looks identical to the 596 I have and the pair I recently sold.
> 
> $700 is a ridiculous eye gouging price to charge for this tube.


 

 I have to admit I have never seen them with O-getters.


----------



## San Raal

Ill check my other pair at home tonight. On close inspection they have slightly different conductors connecting the plates to the pins. And the material used to create the support structure is dull rather than copper coloured. But the plates look identical down to the number of holes in the plates, plate colour and base colour. The other difference is the M logo on the bottle none of mine had that.


----------



## San Raal

My pair have mouse ear getters not round. So these are of different construction.


----------



## Stereolab42

san raal said:


> The internal structure at a causual glance looks identical to the 596 I have and the pair I recently sold.
> 
> $700 is a ridiculous eye gouging price to charge for this tube.


 
  
 Or you can get a pair for $950:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCHED-PAIR-JAN-596-24289-NOS-TEXTED-GREAT-BENDIX-MU-RECTIFIER-TUBES-/400974943914?hash=item5d5bf816aa
  
 The seller is clearly smoking some Snoop Dogg-approved weed if he thinks he's getting 1/2 of this price. However we'll probably be stuck with seeing this listing in eBay results for 2+ years until he accepts reality. Isn't there any ongoing charge for maintaining listings? There are a couple Italian/Taiwanese tube sellers who've had listings up at completely unreasonable prices for at least a year now (anyone who searches for Woo-compatible tube knows the sellers I'm talking about). I'd have assumed that even if they were unable to voluntarily accept the fact that their pricing sucks, some type of ongoing charge would force the realization into them.


----------



## San Raal

Its a shame to see a tube that was found for Woo and head-fi fans has turned into re sellers paradise. I'm pleased my pair went to a head-fi member and not to be resold by the tube trolls.


----------



## 2359glenn

san raal said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTREMELY-RARE-NOS-NIB-BENDIX-MU-TYPE-596-USA-24289-RECTIFIER-TUBE-MINT-COND-/301709386900?hash=item463f47e494&autorefresh=true
> ...


 

 A little over 3 years ago I was selling these for $15 each then went up to $40. This is just crazy for a tube that is not that much different then a 5U4GB
 the tube that everyone hates. Don't look cool.


----------



## HeadJammie

Crazy that he thinks it's worth more than a WE 422A. I wonder if anyone will take the bait.


----------



## 2359glenn

headjammie said:


> Crazy that he thinks it's worth more than a WE 422A. I wonder if anyone will take the bait.


 

 There is a fool born every day.


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> There is a fool born every day.


 
 Hehe.. if the world only have one fool per day, we'll be in good shape, chances are there are much more than one .


----------



## Dubstep Girl

khragon said:


> We422a improvement over my other favorites, the Mullard gz32, isn't as pronounced on the wa5 as much as on the wa22. I can live without we422a on the wa5 but not on the wa22. So in a way you can justify the wa5 (old) pricing by the fact that it sounded pretty good already with much cheaper rectifier (still need 2x). Sorry our discussion didn't work out, my wa5 could of be yours already since you're one of the first to offer.


 
  
  
 ^ this.
  
 422A takes the WA22 to the next level, which it seriously needs as without top tier tubes its nowhere near as good. I''m still happy rolling 596 and GZ32s in my WA5  
  
  


jhljhl said:


> *I'm so impressed by these rectifiers that I would recommend others who have the budget to just jump ahead first to the WE 422a or 274b and then go back to try other ones*.  Counter intuitively, I think it would have saved me more money.  I had a Cavalli LAu/Abyss and I think after a certain price point there are *diminishing returns *as just about everyone has noted. *I don't suppose any more different than moving up the line of bmw etc. *
> 
> So for me the wa22 with 422a; 421 power tubes; tsrp 6f8g and hd800 with endorphin cable and lcd3f with alo cable I am already at end game territory.   I was thinking about going up the line to wa5 or eddie current etc just more out of curiosity than anything else and the fact that some amps can power speakers- which saves space and more convenient.
> 
> Anyone else reach a point where they are at end game territory but are considering upgrading purely out of _curiosity_ because there are no audio amp stores around?  I know there are hi-fi meet ups kind of speed dating equipment as is the status quo of this industry/hobby but if there were a store where you could go and_ _quietly take a listen for an hour you could easily pick out your favorite.


 
  
 this is smart, lol i went through all the tubes and headphones which was awesome, but costs alot more upgrading gear and trying different things than just going for the best, always saves money. like buying brand named things cause they'll last longer, etc.
  
 cars are different lol. a BMW 328i is nothing like an M3, or a 7 series or an i8. huge difference, not diminishing returns here. But.... diminishing returns do exist when shopping different models over different price ranges, like getting a corvette instead of a ferrari, 90% of performance at fraction of price.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> ^ this.
> 
> 422A takes the WA22 to the next level, which it seriously needs as without top tier tubes its nowhere near as good. I''m still happy rolling 596 and GZ32s in my WA5
> 
> ...


 
  
 GZ32 has fantastic mids - sweet, lovely and just ever so nice. Unfortunately the extension is a little lacking.
  
 Have you tried the Taks in the WA5? They have lifted my WA5 way beyond where it was at with SERPs + Brimars (which was very good). Bass was a little sloppy with the Brimars - now it is taut and deep and excellent. Almost up there with my SS 430HA (which is not a bad bit of kit). I think the TA274Bs are a fantastic tube. I haven't had the chance to compare them with the WE274B/WE422A. Folks that have tell me that they are right up there with them (perhaps even better in the extension?).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Not yet


----------



## jhljhl

dubstep girl said:


> cars are different lol. a BMW 328i is nothing like an M3, or a 7 series or an i8. huge difference, not diminishing returns here. But.... diminishing returns do exist when shopping different models over different price ranges, like getting a corvette instead of a ferrari, 90% of performance at fraction of price.


 
 I was thinking about the difference between a 3 series to a 5 compared to a 5 to a 7 (just in my opinion -I know) and then as you go up higher in car models in general at some point cars become less important to me.  It's like I can appreciate the difference more intellectually than emotionally after some point.  It's like a platonic ideal.  Like people who love, _really_ love cars can talk with real passion about a ferrari - say on Top Gear or at car shows.  But I can also see the other analogy between a corvette and a ferrari working too but I guess the closest would be the brimar 5z3 maybe? the tung sol 5y3 on the decwares (though the csp were voiced for that tube).
  
 I think audiophiles - are *passionate about sound*.  They are usually also *passionate about music* and/or some particular music.  But they are not the same thing. 
 I think what usually happens is those passionate about music become passionate about sound once they hear it through some amazing equipment.
 Hmmm...
 Passion for sound = loving ingredients.
 Passion for music = how the ingredients are cooked together? The recipe.
 Equipment = the chef interpreting the recipe?  Like why we might like different music through different amps, tubes etc.?  Why we might like symphonies conducted by different conductors or bands covering a song etc?
 Anyway...
 They want to get, glean, eek out as much of an aesthetic experience ("aesthetic consolation") as possible from the music they enjoy be it classical or rock or whatever.  But at some point for me it's a mote point.  It kind of becomes more academic to me and yet ironically I enjoy seeing and contrasting how others view (no pun intended) what they hear.  I guess this is what happens at wine tastings too?  And rectifier comparing?  Lol.


----------



## San Raal

tonynewman said:


> GZ32 has fantastic mids - sweet, lovely and just ever so nice. Unfortunately the extension is a little lacking.
> 
> Have you tried the Taks in the WA5? They have lifted my WA5 way beyond where it was at with SERPs + Brimars (which was very good). Bass was a little sloppy with the Brimars - now it is taut and deep and excellent. Almost up there with my SS 430HA (which is not a bad bit of kit). I think the TA274Bs are a fantastic tube. I haven't had the chance to compare them with the WE274B/WE422A. Folks that have tell me that they are right up there with them (perhaps even better in the extension?).


 
  
 I have always dreamed of trying a pair of Tak 274b's in my WA5 but I just cant justify the price. For a little more I could get a WEE + some SR009


----------



## TonyNewman

san raal said:


> I have always dreamed of trying a pair of Tak 274b's in my WA5 but I just cant justify the price. For a little more I could get a WEE + some SR009


 
  
 I was fortunate enough to get a nice set second hand - that helped a lot.
  
 They are a wonderful tube, as is the TA300B. In fact, the tube rig of Taks + TS RP + modded HD800 is so revealing that it has highlighted that the weak link in my setup is now my Auralic Vega DAC. The Vega is an excellent DAC for the money, but I am hitting its limits with the Taks. That didn't happen with any other tubes I have used.


----------



## San Raal

I also have the TA300b, dificult to describe really how it sounds other than it is faultless in its presentation and it sounds "right", there are no detractors like the 300b that came before it. However it is a fussy pairing, it really is revealing of the rectifer and 6SN7 type you put before it.  Currently i use the TSRP 12SN7 with a Glenn adapter and the WE422a.


----------



## TonyNewman

Interesting. What does the 12SN7 bring to the table that the 6SN7 doesn't? Better to drive the 300B?


----------



## San Raal

Its sonicly identical. The bonus is that its cheaper and has a 12V heater requirement rather than 6V. 12SN7 were introduced to me using Mapletree gear, Glen was able to make me up a set of adapters for my WA5 that put the tube heaters in parallel with rather than series, as my WA5 produced 12V for this application.


----------



## TonyNewman

Clever


----------



## San Raal

2359glenn said:


> A little over 3 years ago I was selling these for $15 each then went up to $40. This is just crazy for a tube that is not that much different then a 5U4GB
> the tube that everyone hates. Don't look cool.


 
  
 Wow, by the time I picked up on the hype (and thats probably why they are so expensive now) to try a pair, they cost me $100 each to get to the UK.


----------



## jhljhl

san raal said:


> Wow, by the time I picked up on the hype (and thats probably why they are so expensive now) to try a pair, they cost me $100 each to get to the UK.


 

 Around $100 seems about doable to me because mullard 5ar4 are that asking price and I consider those at that quality imo.


----------



## San Raal

jhljhl said:


> Around $100 seems about doable to me because mullard 5ar4 are that asking price and I consider those at that quality imo.


 

 To my ears those tubes are very very different in the WA5. But I agree that they would, in an ideal world, sell for similar sorts.


----------



## jhljhl

san raal said:


> To my ears those tubes are very very different in the WA5. But I agree that they would, in an ideal world, sell for similar sorts.


 

 Yeah I mean the sonically qualities in my WA22 are different I think I would categorize the 596 has a lighter touch with a slightly wider sound stage and airier extension but the mullard 5ar4 gives a more solid state performance with a bit richer bass.
  
  
 I heard all 596 are from the same manufacturer so maybe those are older or newer?


----------



## San Raal

WOW! For me its almost the exact opposite.
  
 In the WA5 i would say the 596 turns the amp into a bass monster, no other rectifier I own, including the WE422a can match the awesome bass these rectifiers help push out, but the 5AR4 in the Woo are really euphonic, mellow, somewhat laid back with a great British Mullard tube tone. the soundstage on the 596 is very good agreed, but I would call it the more SS, of the two - a very forward presentation.
  
 Different ears, different amps, different cans (probably)


----------



## jhljhl

san raal said:


> WOW! For me its almost the exact opposite.
> 
> In the WA5 i would say the 596 turns the amp into a bass monster, no other rectifier I own, including the WE422a can match the awesome bass these rectifiers help push out, but the 5AR4 in the Woo are really euphonic, mellow, somewhat laid back with a great British Mullard tube tone. the soundstage on the 596 is very good agreed, but I would call it the more SS, of the two - a very forward presentation.
> 
> Different ears, different amps, different cans (probably)


 
  
 I think if people have the wa22 596 with same drivers etc. we are listening then to the same thing all things being equal then it is a question of description.  The brute facts are there.  The description can be analytically objective if words can be precise but they often fail.  The preference - whether you like it or not - is subjective.
  

 I know other people call the 596 as having richer bass on the wa22 but I would call that being more layered textured.  But the mullard is thicker warmer so feels less defined but more "powerful" because of that but I can see why one would say euphonic or euphoric because it is not as textured.
 I mean, as you describe it, on the WA5 and as I have heard others describe it on wa22 - I can understand that description as you put it.  Or in other words I'm having an "Oh I see why you would say it like that" moment I sometimes have when reading headfi.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I think if people have the wa22 596 with same drivers etc. we are listening then to the same thing all things being equal then it is a question of description.  The brute facts are there.  The description can be analytically objective if words can be precise but they often fail.  The preference - whether you like it or not - is subjective.
> 
> 
> I know other people call the 596 as having richer bass on the wa22 but I would call that being more layered textured.  But the mullard is thicker warmer so feels less defined but more "powerful" because of that but I can see why one would say euphonic or euphoric because it is not as textured.
> I mean, as you describe it, on the WA5 and as I have heard others describe it on wa22 - I can understand that description as you put it.  Or in other words I'm having an "Oh I see why you would say it like that" moment I sometimes have when reading headfi.


 

 Might try the 596 in my wa22 when it come


----------



## San Raal

3083joe said:


> Might try the 596 in my wa22 when it come


 
  
 The 596 sure is worth a roll. Its a damn shame they are being sold for silly money now.


----------



## 3083joe

san raal said:


> The 596 sure is worth a roll. Its a damn shame they are being sold for silly money now.



Yeah. Looking at a set of tung sols now $99 each


----------



## Khragon

3083joe said:


> Might try the 596 in my wa22 when it come


 
 Considering the price of 596 now.. I recommend skipping it and go WE422A.
 It is really another level, I tried 596 on the WA22 and wasn't very impressed.


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> Considering the price of 596 now.. I recommend skipping it and go WE422A.
> It is really another level, I tried 596 on the WA22 and wasn't very impressed.



Yeah. Didn't like it in my wa6. Have a we422 on the way. Look forward to trying it.


----------



## Khragon

So you have WA22 on the way? congrats!
 More importantly, black or silver? we all know that silver reflects random EMI from the environment and therefore sounded better.


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> So you have WA22 on the way? congrats!
> More importantly, black or silver? we all know that silver reflects random EMI from the environment and therefore sounded better.


 

 Ordering Monday, as i had to wait for some money to clean in paypal, but i really wanted the black tho


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Might try the 596 in my wa22 when it come




Give it a whirl and chime in. Interested in how others describe it.


----------



## jhljhl

> Similar to 5U4G but slightly different, this one is made by Brimar. This tube is similar in many ways to the GZ37 tubes in that its quite warm. On the WA6-SE, this was almost too much, extremely syrupy and tubey midrange, very laid-back and lush. It did however, work well with bright headphones due to the treble roll-off. If you enjoy a warm and euphonic presentation, this tube is really nice. Compared to the GZ37's, I think it stands between the Cossor GZ37 and the Mullard GZ37. It's much better than the skinny bottle GZ37 offering more transparency (zero grain!) and a richer tonality, as well as better soundstage and imaging (rivaling that of the best tubes in depth and dimensionality). Bass is tighter and cleaner as well, though not as nice as the Cossor GZ37, its slightly less impactful and not as layered, but better than the regular GZ37 and with much better texture. While this tube lacks speed and PRaT, it does have a very natural decay and timbre, and is one of my favorite tubes for vocals and slower music. Overall, this tube is extremely good for the price, offering much of the performance of the more expensive tubes, having similar transparency and richness in tone. What's even better is the fact that this tube is still easily obtained and fairly cheap with prices ranging from $45-$100. Personally, this is a steal since I think this tube is better than the regular Mullard GZ37 and rivals the more expensive and rarer tubes out there. It is a little too slow for my taste, but if vocals, jazz, and classical are a large part of your collection, this tube is definitely a must have!


 
  
 I heard this through a WA22 and Taboo MKIII.  This is a really nice and somewhat affordable tube - I like it a bit more than a mullard 5ar4 in some applications because it is more organic sounding - definitely warmer in the mids.  It is also more laid back but not a slouch - not too slow.  If you want to listen to rock, jazz or classical with laid back tube warmth this is it.  Non-fatiguing. It has depth to the sound but I don't really see the imaging but in vocals because of the warm mids (esp. in the Taboo).  Nice lush sounding with LCD3f.  I can see why Dubstep Girl places it between the fat and skinny bottle gz37.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## jhljhl

Anyone try a U18/20 rectifier?  Requires a 5u4g adapter.


----------



## gurubhai

Its a 4V rectifier and can't be used in place of a 5 V rectifier without making allowance for that.


----------



## novaca

Is anybody know if an 5z3 to 5U4 adapter is the same as 83 to 5U4 adapter?
 Have you ever tried 83 rectifier (on WA6SE)?
 Thanks


----------



## abvolt

I picked this Brimar 5V4G up last week and I gotta say for an inexpensive tube this one is without a doubt one of the best sounding 5V4G I own, It's almost as good as the mullard GZ32 which is one of my favorite rectifiers.  I've noticed all 5V4G's make excellent sounding rectifiers with maybe the exception of the Sylvania don't really care for that one it sounds hollow almost like your in a tunnel. The Brimar 5V4G is well worth a try glad I found this one it's really excellent..


----------



## wyan

Hi, for WE422a, is there any difference in performance among those made in different years? As far as I know, there are three versions: those with round getters; those with square getters and black plate; and finaly the earliest with square getters and grey plate. Thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

wyan said:


> Hi, for WE422a, is there any difference in performance among those made in different years? As far as I know, there are three versions: those with round getters; those with square getters and black plate; and finaly the earliest with square getters and grey plate. Thanks.


 

 My opinion is the Grey plate is a little better sounding


----------



## wyan

Ok. Thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

novaca said:


> Is anybody know if an 5z3 to 5U4 adapter is the same as 83 to 5U4 adapter?
> 
> Have you ever tried 83 rectifier (on WA6SE)?
> Thanks



You would have to ask 2359glenn


----------



## abvolt

Here's an interesting rectifier I found at least for me it is, a NU 5Z4 metal tube, I was pleasantly surprised how well this 7.00 tube sounds it's well worth a listen..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Here's an interesting rectifier I found at least for me it is, a NU 5Z4 metal tube, I was pleasantly surprised how well this 7.00 tube sounds it's well worth a listen..


 

 Have this one to an RCA 5Z4 at first it smelt of burnt paint and it  runs really hot but as you say its a nice tube


----------



## abvolt

I also noticed a little smell, but sure does sound good..


----------



## 3083joe

Question, what's the difference in we274a and we274b?


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> I also noticed a little smell, but sure does sound good..


 

 Wanted to add that i measured the tubes heat level at 330 F in my WA22 was concerned and contacted Woo they said no problem ,always nice to here.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Question, what's the difference in we274a and we274b?


 

 Pin out mainly I think.  An adapter is needed for 274a for WA22.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Question, what's the difference in we274a and we274b?
> ...


 

 274A is a 4pin tube and the 274B is a 8pin octal tube the tubes are the same except the base.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> 274A is a 4pin tube and the 274B is a 8pin octal tube the tubes are the same except the base.



Thanks 2359glenn
Adapters needed for the A (4pin) ?


----------



## halogamer

Is $800 a reasonable price for the WE422A?


----------



## 3083joe

halogamer said:


> Is $800 a reasonable price for the WE422A?



No. More like 400-500 tops!


----------



## 3083joe

halogamer said:


> Is $800 a reasonable price for the WE422A?



I've seen several going to 300ish lately on eBay.


----------



## halogamer

3083joe said:


> I've seen several going to 300ish lately on eBay.


 
 I'll keep an eye out then.


----------



## San Raal

halogamer said:


> Is $800 a reasonable price for the WE422A?


 
  
 I paid $650 for a used pair. NOS is probably going to be more - if such a set even exist!


----------



## jhljhl

halogamer said:


> Is $800 a reasonable price for the WE422A?


 

 I think it is safe to expect to pay at least $400 for a strong tested one.


----------



## HeadJammie

I have a 422Acthat i am willing to sell. I will test it on my Dan Nelson Calibrated TV7. I bought it to use on my WOO WA22 but opted for a used 274B instead.

Let me know if you are interested.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> I think it is safe to expect to pay at least $400 for a strong tested one.


 
  
 At that price a new production TA274B might also be an option worth considering. 800USD per tube, but factory new with warranty.


----------



## jhljhl

Tried the sophia 274b back into the wa22.  Sounds nice with the ts bgrp and gec 6sa7g.  concentrates the sound stage a bit and a little hardness added to the 6as7gs.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Tried the sophia 274b back into the wa22.  Sounds nice with the ts bgrp and gec 6sa7g.  concentrates the sound stage a bit and a little hardness added to the 6as7gs.


 
Interesting 
Sold mine.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> At that price a new production TA274B might also be an option worth considering. 800USD per tube, but factory new with warranty.



Was thinking of trying one. But if I go with Glenn's 300b need pair of both.


----------



## 3083joe

headjammie said:


> I have a 422Acthat i am willing to sell. I will test it on my Dan Nelson Calibrated TV7. I bought it to use on my WOO WA22 but opted for a used 274B instead.
> 
> Let me know if you are interested.



You using what 274b? WE?


----------



## HeadJammie

The 274B I am using is a Western Electric. It is not dramatically better than the WE 422A but given the price I paid for mine, I plan to keep it and sell my 422A.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Was thinking of trying one. But if I go with Glenn's 300b need pair of both.


 
  
 Glen uses PY500 rectifiers in his 300B amps. These tubes are super cheap. I got a box of 10 Mullard PY500s for about a 100 USD from Langrex.
  
 The C3Gs are starting to get a little more pricey. the expensive part if the 300B - and I can't think of any tube I would want to put in a Glenn 300B amp other than the TA300B.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Glen uses PY500 rectifiers in his 300B amps. These tubes are super cheap. I got a box of 10 Mullard PY500s for about a 100 USD from Langrex.
> 
> The C3Gs are starting to get a little more pricey. the expensive part if the 300B - and I can't think of any tube I would want to put in a Glenn 300B amp other than the TA300B.



Cool that's is the plan then!


----------



## 3083joe

TonyNewman
What type c3gs? 
And where's the best place to get them?


----------



## jhljhl

I'm going to sell a spare WE 274b and my sophia 274b tubes among some other rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:
			
		

>





> What type c3gs?
> And where's the best place to get them?


 
  
 The vast majority of C3g out there were manufactured by Siemens. My best guess is that during the 1950's and 60's, Lorenz and Telefunken also manufactured these tubes, but by the 1970's, it was only Siemens. So unless you come across some of these earlier tubes, the Valvo, Telefunken and Lorenz tubes you see out there are simply rebadged Siemens. 
  
 These are a little banged up, but they test new and they are cheap. And it is important to remember that C3g are at least 10,000 hour tubes, so even though these are used, they likely have a lot of life left in them.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-C3g-Pentodo-SIMENS-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/262036452899
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-C3g-Pentodo-SIMENS-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/271977467643


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> @TonyNewman
> What type c3gs?
> And where's the best place to get them?


 
  


gibosi said:


> The vast majority of C3g out there were manufactured by Siemens. My best guess is that during the 1950's and 60's, Lorenz and Telefunken also manufactured these tubes, but by the 1970's, it was only Siemens. So unless you come across some of these earlier tubes, the Valvo, Telefunken and Lorenz tubes you see out there are simply rebadged Siemens.
> 
> These are a little banged up, but they test new and they are cheap. And it is important to remember that C3g are at least 10,000 hour tubes, so even though these are used, they likely have a lot of life left in them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Absolutely correct - stripping the metal cover shows that the internals are the same (Lorenz / Telefunken / Siemens) - at least for all the tubes I have looked at.
  
 Go with Siemens - cheaper and the same damn tube as the others (most of the time). They also sound great.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I'm going to sell a spare WE 274b and my sophia 274b tubes among some other rectifiers.



Let me know about the 274 
Thanks


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Was thinking of trying one. But if I go with Glenn's 300b need pair of both.
> ...


 
 I need to grab some of these Mullard PY500    
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Glenn recommended Siemens to me.


----------



## abvolt

Here's a really nice sounding rectifier I just picked up for cheap it's a Zaerix GZ 30 this was well worth it's price of 10. anyone here have a chance to hear this tube. It never ceases to amaze just how good some inexpensive tubes can sound..


----------



## Jeb Listens

abvolt said:


> Here's a really nice sounding rectifier I just picked up for cheap it's a Zaerix GZ 30 this was well worth it's price of 10. anyone here have a chance to hear this tube. It never ceases to amaze just how good some inexpensive tubes can sound..


 

 abvolt - so very true the inexpensive tubes often sound the best!    The expensive ones sometimes do too...but it hurts so much more when they don't !
  
 I don't think that Zaerix made their own tubes so instead just bought, relabelled and re-sold. You can sometimes find some really nice tubes under the Zaerix label.  I understand they were a major supplier to the military.  Any other distinguishing features or codes etc that might help pin down who made that tube?


----------



## abvolt

Here's a link has a little more info, I pulled my mullard GZ 32 to listen to this tube think I'll  keep the GZ 30 in for a time it's really a fun sounding tube. I know that mullard makes also a GZ 30 was thinking giving that one a try also.. --> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0218.htm


----------



## Jeb Listens

Good stuff abvolt.  I think Zaerix sourced from all over the place incl. Russia, but I could be wrong.  I have some 6080s from Zaerix that are Sylvanias.   In any case....If it sounds good, it sounds good and that's all that matters.   
  
 So many tubes so little time.


----------



## Oskari

jeb listens said:


> Any other distinguishing features or codes etc that might help pin down who made that tube?




I think it's a NEVZ-Soyuz 5Ц4М.


----------



## Jeb Listens

far-out - nicely done, Oskari.


----------



## abvolt

I did a little looking into the company of Zaerix I guess they also supplied the British military,  There were from Phillips, Mullard etc. It was a relabelling company in the UK. And some of there tubes were even Russian made. I just got a mullard GZ 30 from langrix for 20. not too bad for such a great sounding tube..


----------



## abvolt

oskari said:


> I think it's a NEVZ-Soyuz 5Ц4М.


 
  
 I think your right sure looks the same as a 5U4M  Russian tube..


----------



## abvolt

I've been listening to this nice & inexpensive rectifier for a while now it has a full bodied sound with good bass,  NU 5Y3G worth 4 bucks I'd say..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I've been listening to this nice & inexpensive rectifier for a while now it has a full bodied sound with good bass,  NU 5Y3G worth 4 bucks I'd say..



Yes I have that rectifier. Loved it in my wa6
Very similar to Brimar 5u4


----------



## CZ4A

I figure here is as good as place as any to ask...
  
 I'm going through my lot of 300-400 assorted tubes that I bought recently and came across three of these in a Ziploc bag. They say SE5U4GB and have a T in a square logo but otherwise there is no identifying information. I tried testing them on my EMC 213 with 5U4 settings and all three pegged the needle past the highest reading. I'll need to look for a known 5U4 to tell if this is normal behavior on the very basic 213, but I'm still at a loss as to any manufacturer or if these are even 5U4s and not something else. Can anyone here help me or point me in the right direction?


----------



## jhljhl

I know there are fake WE 274b tubes - I think this is one not sure: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274B-/321869551537?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I know there are fake WE 274b tubes - I think this is one not sure: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274B-/321869551537?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276



I'd say so. Same guy had the same exact tube for sale with tung sol on it.


----------



## HeadJammie

I have never had a 274B with that lettering or base.


----------



## jhljhl

headjammie said:


> I have never had a 274B with that lettering or base.


 
 The top mica is also not the same as the WE274b I have nor the many I have seen online.


----------



## HeadJammie

My comment should have read that I have never seen WE274B with that lettering or base. I am not sure what this is?


----------



## Oskari

cz4a said:


> Can anyone here help me or point me in the right direction?


 
  
 Solid state replacement from Transitron.


----------



## CZ4A

oskari said:


> Solid state replacement from Transitron.


 

 Thanks for the info!


----------



## Contrails

Ladies and gents, need your advice on tubes for the WA22 and LCD-x. I haven't picked up the amp yet but slowly collecting the tubes for the when the times comes. Rectifier duties are set to 596, drivers are Brimar cv1988 brown base, power tubes are 7236 and 5998. I am going for a more solid state, fast sound with a bit of lush and slight more Bass impact. Dac is going to be Nfb-1 (ES9018). I am heading in the right direction for tube choices and especially rectifier or should I be looking at gz34/u52?


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> Ladies and gents, need your advice on tubes for the WA22 and LCD-x. I haven't picked up the amp yet but slowly collecting the tubes for the when the times comes. Rectifier duties are set to 596, drivers are Brimar cv1988 brown base, power tubes are 7236 and 5998. I am going for a more solid state, fast sound with a bit of lush and slight more Bass impact. Dac is going to be Nfb-1 (ES9018). I am heading in the right direction for tube choices and especially rectifier or should I be looking at gz34/u52?



I think you are reading in right direction. I personally didn't like the 596 or the u52 both opposite sides of sound in my opinion. 
Now Brimar 5r4s were in the middle. But I think you will be happy.


----------



## Contrails

3083joe thanks for your reply. Would you say the 596 is more towards the cold side? And the u52 being warm?


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> 3083joe thanks for your reply. Would you say the 596 is more towards the cold side? And the u52 being warm?



Correct. Agree completely. 
Have to say the cossor gz37 fat bottle is really nice as well as the we422.


----------



## novaca

3083joe said:


> Have to say the cossor gz37 fat bottle is really nice as well as the we422.


 
  
 Do you have some brief comparison of the Cossor GZ37 (53KU) / U52 / Brimar 5Z4G?
 Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

novaca said:


> Do you have some brief comparison of the Cossor GZ37 (53KU) / U52 / Brimar 5Z4G?
> Thanks



Sure I'll write something up this week. Brief and to the point.


----------



## abvolt

Here's a great sounding rectifier I just got the mullard gz 34 it's of course not the more sought after metal base mullard but it still sounds very nice..


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> Here's a great sounding rectifier I just got the mullard gz 34 it's of course not the more sought after metal base mullard but it still sounds very nice..


 

 I think these are popular because they give a more ss presentation.


----------



## abvolt

It sure does have a ss sound to it in a tubey kinda way definitely different from other recitifers I have, sounds great..


----------



## gibosi

abvolt said:


> Here's a great sounding rectifier I just got the mullard gz 34 it's of course not the more sought after metal base mullard but it still sounds very nice..


 
  
 The production code on your tube appears to be f32 B4E3, which indicates that it was manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory in 1964. You will also find black-base Philips GZ34 manufactured at about the same time, or a little earlier, in Sittard, Holland (factory code X), and Brussels, Belgium (factory code L). I wonder if anyone has compared the sound of these tubes?


----------



## Shaffer

jhljhl said:


> I think these are popular because they give a more *ss presentation*.




I hear this term quite a bit. What does it mean, as it relates to tubes?


----------



## abvolt

For me and many other who own tube amps we subjectively describe these amps as having a warmth & richness that at least I think most solid-state amps don't offer maybe the really high end ones do not sure, this mullard gz34 gives my amp a little ss like sound to the music very clean & clear sounding it's actually very noticeable to my ears very cool to listen to. I'm sure other here with more experience with tube amps may have a better explanation of what a ss presentation sounds like..


----------



## Shaffer

abvolt said:


> For me and many other who own tube amps we subjectively describe these amps as having a warmth & richness that at least I think most solid-state amps don't offer maybe the really high end ones do not sure, this mullard gz34 gives my amp a little ss like sound to the music very clean & clear sounding it's actually very noticeable to my ears very cool to listen to. I'm sure other here with more experience with tube amps may have a better explanation of what a ss presentation sounds like..




My experience with ss amps presents their sound all over the place, tonally. Take the V200. I own 3 tube amplifiers, not a one sounds as warm, as thick, and as laid back. Or, a Meier Concerto. It's tonal balance isn't all that dissimilar from my Feliks Elise configured per my preference. We can't even cite a lack of grain as indicative of tube sound, anymore, as quality ss amps are capable of the same. Sure, a piece of aural junk like the O2 sounds grainy and lifeless - what consumer market ss used to sound like 20 years ago. A quality ss amp? No way. I'm attracted to tubes, due to the life and color they introduce into the music. Can a ss amp do that? Sure. It just costs a lot more. This being said, I have not heard a _headphone _ss amp that is capable of such performance.


----------



## 3083joe

Originally Posted by novaca View Post

Do you have some brief comparison of the Cossor GZ37 (53KU) / U52 / Brimar 5Z4G?
Thanks

Ok so I have been trying out the GEC mov u52 vs cossor 53KU (fat bottle gz37) vs we422a in comparison to the first favorite rectifier I used brimar 5z4 and 5r4
The u52 is SS like. Not at holographic or wide. Somewhat for the lack of a better word harsh and somewhat boring. Lasted a day or so. Couldn't get past it's flat sound. 

The we422a- well all I can say is this tube is really worth the money. Excellent soundstage. Smooth warm and transparent. Sounded good with just about everything I listened too. 

The cossor 53ku, very close to the we422 but little less warmed. Very little less. Sound stage about 90 % of we422a. But I have really warmed up to it. The lows are so much better than most any other rectifier I have used (ecc35s are helping with that also tho) the loses over the we422a are close to being worth it. The wa22 is very lacking in lows so it's nice to have them. 

Now when you compare these to the brimar rectifier well brimar doesn't stand a chance but it's the closest you can get for 1/5 the cost. And it really has a nice sound stage. 3D and warm. I liked it because it really smoothed the mids and with jazz mids are nice already. 
So my final decision with these is......

The we422a is top dog. Followed close by the cossor 53KU. Then the brimar 5r4 
As for the u52 I would not waste your money. And the 5z4 isn't close to the 5r4 to my ears. Well worth the extra money. 
We274a will be what I'll test next and let you all know.


----------



## novaca

Thank you once again.
 Now I use WA6SE. I liked it with 6em7 + 5z4g and then 6f8g (Glenn adapters). Wow detail and clarity with 6f8g, but bass and warmth is gone, the fun is gone - so seeking a rectifier (53ku?) which would improve it. I was also thinking about an upgrade amplifier to the wa22. But you say:
  
 Quote:


3083joe said:


> The wa22 is very lacking in lows


 
  - this applies to Woo amplifiers in general, or just Wa22? (if anyone can compare - with WA6SE).


----------



## 3083joe

novaca said:


> - this applies to Woo amplifiers in general, or just Wa22? (if anyone can compare - with WA6SE).



My wa6 had more, lots more.


----------



## jhljhl

edited post: can concur about 422a.


----------



## Contrails

Seller says it's a Marconi/MWT *5U4G. *
  
 Same as a Marconi/MWT U52?


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> Seller says it's a Marconi/MWT *5U4G. *
> 
> Same as a Marconi/MWT U52?
> Looks like regular 5u4g


----------



## novaca

3083joe said:


> The wa22 is very lacking in lows


 
  


3083joe said:


> My wa6 had more, lots more.


 
 That really surprises me. Is there anyone who upgraded from WA6SE to WA22 or WA2 (or has both) and can briefly compare? Why the upgrade worth it or not (not only with regard to the lows).
 I found a reviews WA6 vs WA6SE or WA2 vs WA22 but almost limited information about WA6SE vs WA2/WA22 ...


----------



## punit

I had both WA6 & WA22 couple of years back. The WA22 is another level compared to WA6 IMO. My WA22 had much better everything (including Bass) compared to WA6.


----------



## jc9394

novaca said:


> That really surprises me. Is there anyone who upgraded from WA6SE to WA22 or WA2 (or has both) and can briefly compare? Why the upgrade worth it or not (not only with regard to the lows).
> I found a reviews WA6 vs WA6SE or WA2 vs WA22 but almost limited information about WA6SE vs WA2/WA22 ...


 
  
  
 Depends on the headphone you are using.  When I had the WA6 (maxxed) and WA22 (maxxed) driving the HD800, the WA22 does not have more bass but much more quality bass.  The biggest differences are in the details and soundstage.  If you are looking for more bass and have a high impedance headphone, go with WA6SE or WA2.


----------



## tmacb3

3083joe said:


> Originally Posted by novaca View Post
> 
> Do you have some brief comparison of the Cossor GZ37 (53KU) / U52 / Brimar 5Z4G?
> Thanks
> ...


 

 Thanks Joe for your "tube thoughts". I will be anxious to hear your comparisons between the we422a and the we274. Did you mean to say we274*B *or are you looking at the we 274* A? *I am just about to pull the trigger on an upgrade rectifier tube for my WA 6SE using a pair of Fostex th900 headphones. It will be interesting if you think the price difference between these two Western Elect. tubes are worth it.


----------



## 3083joe

novaca said:


> That really surprises me. Is there anyone who upgraded from WA6SE to WA22 or WA2 (or has both) and can briefly compare? Why the upgrade worth it or not (not only with regard to the lows).
> I found a reviews WA6 vs WA6SE or WA2 vs WA22 but almost limited information about WA6SE vs WA2/WA22 ...







punit said:


> I had both WA6 & WA22 couple of years back. The WA22 is another level compared to WA6 IMO. My WA22 had much better everything (including Bass) compared to WA6.



Upgraded to wa22 for more power with hd800s.


----------



## 3083joe

tmacb3 said:


> Thanks Joe for your "tube thoughts". I will be anxious to hear your comparisons between the we422a and the we274. Did you mean to say we274*B *or are you looking at the we 274 *A? *I am just about to pull the trigger on an upgrade rectifier tube for my WA 6SE using a pair of Fostex th900 headphones. It will be interesting if you think the price difference between these two Western Elect. tubes are worth it.



I will have the we274 soon. But I did receive another GEC u52. Looks to be a regular one not a military production and I have to say it sounds real good. Way better than the u52 mov that I had. 
The we274 that I order is the A my tube supplier doesn't have the B but not any difference just the pins A has 4 and B has 8. 
I will give my thought on all four once the 274 is here.


----------



## 3083joe

We274 will be here tomorrow. Curious to see if it has any improvement to we422/u52/cossor53ku


----------



## playitloud

3083joe said:


> We274 will be here tomorrow. Curious to see if it has any improvement to we422/u52/cossor53ku


 
 Very interesting. I also have a WE422a, U52 (inverted cup getter), and Cossor 53KU (GZ37 big bottle). I am especially interested in the comparison between the U52 and WE274 becuase they are both directly heated tubes, whereas the GZ37 and WE422a and indirectly heated.


----------



## 3083joe

playitloud said:


> Very interesting. I also have a WE422a, U52 (inverted cup getter), and Cossor 53KU (GZ37 big bottle). I am especially interested in the comparison between the U52 and WE274 becuase they are both directly heated tubes, whereas the GZ37 and WE422a and indirectly heated.


 

 WOW is about all i can say, I really didn't expect to see much Improvement with the WE274a but it has the best of all three top NOS rectifiers
 Bass is present like the Cossor, Soundstage is wide, like the 422, clarity and depth are pushed beyond the U52, Very impressed!
 it an expensive tube but It will take it to the next level for sure.
 Really enjoying!


----------



## playitloud

Thanks. I think I have to give myself a Christmas present!


----------



## MIKELAP

playitloud said:


> Thanks. I think I have to give myself a Christmas present!


 
 I dont deserve it lol.


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> I dont deserve it lol.



You both deserve it. ✌️


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> WOW is about all i can say, I really didn't expect to see much Improvement with the WE274a but it has the best of all three top NOS rectifiers
> Bass is present like the Cossor, Soundstage is wide, like the 422, clarity and depth are pushed beyond the U52, Very impressed!
> it an expensive tube but It will take it to the next level for sure.
> Really enjoying!


 

 Yep - I agree.


----------



## abvolt

I've been listening to a Brimar 5Z4GY for a while and it's excellent sounding. I recently pick up this Mullard 5Z4G the two have similar construction the Brimar has an O getr & gray plates whereas the Mullard has a foil D shaped getr & black plates, I also noticed that the Mullard has a heavier weight to it. To me the Mullard is superior sounding, I've also noticed printing on the bottom of this tube does anyone know what it means. Thanks, this tube was lower in cost then the Brimar, it's well worth a listen if one gets a chance the sound I'm getting is just great..


----------



## Shaffer

Would you say the Mullard has a bigger, tighter, deeper, weightier low-end than the Brimar?


----------



## abvolt

It's definitely punchier in the lows, the mids is where I noticed the biggest differences a wider range very noticeable, I just stumbled across this tube 21. bucks I'll say this hope I can find another it's very nice sounding.


----------



## MIKELAP

Would anybody know the date of this type 80 TungSol rectifier  on tube it say MR 31   . Thanks


----------



## abvolt

I have the same tube but mine is only engraved with the tung sol name no other numbers of letters other then 80 printed on the glass, it has a foil D shaped getr sound really nice, however I do perfer the 5z3 over the 80's and don't care for the 83's too plain sounding for my taste..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> I have the same tube but mine is only engraved with the tung sol name no other numbers of letters other then 80 printed on the glass, it has a foil D shaped getr sound really nice, however I do perfer the 5z3 over the 80's and don't care for the 83's too plain sounding for my taste..


 
  Have you tried the UX280


----------



## abvolt

not yet i've been thinking of one someday, some of those globe type rectifiers sure look cool..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> not yet i've been thinking of one someday, some of those globe type rectifiers sure look cool..


 
 ill be getting a few next week but adapters only in a couple weeks . So Classic ,hope they sound good


----------



## jermaink

Does anyone have any idea how these might sound?
  

  
 I haven't heard anything about a Westinghouse 5U4G.


----------



## abvolt

there no bad just don't pay too much


----------



## jermaink

Does $25 USD sound about right?
  
 Oh, and do you know anything about the Mullard (IEC)/GE 5U4GB as seen here?


----------



## abvolt

for a pair is fine I would pay between 10-15 each, but there are a lot better sounding rectifiers for the same cost an example might be a tung sol 5v4g way better sounding same cost or a 5z3..


----------



## jermaink

Ah k. And what about the Mullard (IEC)/GE 5U4GB?


----------



## abvolt

if you can be sure they are real mullards I never heard mullard making tubes for ge check it out first, if it turns out to be true i'm sure they will sound good mullard is one of my favorites good luck, let us know what you find..


----------



## gibosi

jermaink said:


> Does $25 USD sound about right?
> 
> Oh, and do you know anything about the Mullard (IEC)/GE 5U4GB as seen here?


 
  
 I doubt that either of these were manufactured by Mullard. The GE is very obviously a GE. Note the sandblasted lettering and dots in the glass. Only GE did this. And to the best of my knowledge, Mullard never etched the tube number inside an octagon in the glass. This suggests to me that it too is an American-made rectifier.


----------



## MIKELAP

Isnt there a G.E. that was Mullard made,  dont remember if it was in the  6SN7 family


----------



## abvolt

I've seen many people selling tubes that are clearly US made tubes and calling them mullards, i've not been able to find any evidence saying mullard ever made tubes for the US I know people say otherwise but where's the proof, there all over ebay, rca & ge tubes that people claim to be made by mullard it's probably just a line of bs..


----------



## gibosi

It is not uncommon to see American-labeled tubes that were in fact manufactured by Philips. For example, Philips manufactured the GZ34 in their Mullard, Sittard (Holland) and Brussels factories. I often see these tubes carrying the labels of the major hi-fi companies of the day, such as HH Scott, Harmon Kardon and even Realistic, and yes, I have seen Philips GZ34 carrying labels such as GE, Sylvania and Raytheon.
  
 Relabeling was the norm so you can never trust the text and logos silk-screened on the tube. Fortunately, Philips etched production codes into the glass on their tubes and these indicate precisely when and where the tube was manufactured. My best advice is learn how to read these codes. If you see a listing claiming that the tube was manufactured by Mullard, closely examine the pictures for these production codes. And if the pictures do not reveal these codes, ask the vendor for better pictures, or at least, to tell you what that code is. Be very wary if the vendor cannot/will not give it to you.
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## jermaink

Very interesting to know!
  
 Though now I'm wondering whether the GE 5U4GB is any good..


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I doubt that either of these were manufactured by Mullard. The GE is very obviously a GE. Note the sandblasted lettering and dots in the glass. Only GE did this. And to the best of my knowledge, Mullard never etched the tube number inside an octagon in the glass. This suggests to me that it too is an American-made rectifier.


 
  
 IEC was quite fond of Japanese tubes. If that's the case, the octagon suggests Toshiba.
  
 By the way, IEC was Mullard's US distributor hence the IEC Mullard brand.


----------



## abvolt

I've been listening to some of my metal envelope 5Z4's and was wondering if anyone knows if a 5Y3 would be a substitute for the 5Z4, I think it will work fine just asking if someone has tried this tube..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> I've been listening to some of my metal envelope 5Z4's and was wondering if anyone knows if a 5Y3 would be a substitute for the 5Z4, I think it will work fine just asking if someone has tried this tube..


 
 I havent tried the 5Y3 but its on the W00 list i tried the 5Z4 but what i remember from it is that it gets damm hot .


----------



## abvolt

yes I forgot about that list thanks I ordered a great looking nu 5y3g this tube was found on ebay for 2.49 4.50 ship looks new in appearance like it's not been used and at a super price..


----------



## jermaink

Can you guys help me sort out the mystery of this tube I bought on a whim? It is labelled a U52 produced by GEC, however the base is clearly marked 'Japan'. Could it possibly be a refurbished damaged tube? The shape appears unusual for a U52 as well.


----------



## gibosi

jermaink said:


> Can you guys help me sort out the mystery of this tube I bought on a whim? It is labelled a U52 produced by GEC, however the base is clearly marked 'Japan'. Could it possibly be a refurbished damaged tube? The shape appears unusual for a U52 as well.


 
  
 Well, anything is possible, but I seriously doubt that this is a refurbished damaged tube. Much more likely in my mind is this is simply a case of relabeling. As the production of vacuum tubes began winding down in the West, GEC, Sylvania, and others procured tubes from Japan, Eastern Europe and elsewhere, and resold them under their own labels. Another example can be seen on eBay today. As I write this, there is a black-based pair of GEC-labeled 6AS7 with "flying saucer" getters, obviously manufactured on a Russian assembly line, perhaps located somewhere in Eastern Europe.


----------



## Oskari

jermaink said:


>


 
  
 Hitachi. Possibly 5U4GB.


----------



## abvolt

have you considered it might be a fake lots of them out there..


----------



## jermaink

It actually sounds pretty nice. But I'm quite new to tube rolling, so my experience (and reference points) aren't great.


----------



## gibosi

abvolt said:


> have you considered it might be a fake lots of them out there..


 
  
 Evidently, your experience is very different than mine. I have over 1000 tubes and I just haven't seen that many fakes. And very frankly, if someone was going to go to the trouble to make a fake, I would think that they would remove the word "Japan" from the tube...
  
 Again, relabeling was common practice and there is no reason not to think that this was in fact manufactured by Hitachi and resold under the GEC label. I see this sort of thing all time: GE-made with Telefunken labels. Toshiba-made with Siemens labels, Mullard-made with GEC labels, Russian-made with Mullard labels, and on and on. Relabeling was not only common, it was standard practice.


----------



## abvolt

I'm sure your more of an authority then me on vacuum tubes, but lots of people do make counterfeits & sell them I've owned 2 here's a site i've used to help identify fakes http://vacuumtubesinc.com/index.php/hallofshame This is one of many site like it, Their is no rhyme or reason when it comes to dishonest people, I also know of a canadian dealer that sells many counterfeits lots of money in it, maybe you haven't seen many but that doesn't mean anything fakes do exist..


----------



## m17xr2b

I just bough a GEC U52 but now I'm having second thoughts. All GEC U52 I have seen have a round base.
 Any idea if this is the real deal?
 http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/eR4AAOSwp5JWZets/$_57.JPG
 http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/eXEAAOSwcBhWZeuU/$_57.JPG
 http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/o6EAAOSw8-tWZevo/$_57.JPG


----------



## 3083joe

m17xr2b said:


> I just bough a GEC U52 but now I'm having second thoughts. All GEC U52 I have seen have a round base.
> Any idea if this is the real deal?
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/eR4AAOSwp5JWZets/$_57.JPG
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/eXEAAOSwcBhWZeuU/$_57.JPG
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/o6EAAOSw8-tWZevo/$_57.JPG



I have seen both


----------



## m17xr2b

Any sound difference between them or is it just cosmetic?


----------



## 3083joe

m17xr2b said:


> Any sound difference between them or is it just cosmetic?



Cosmetic from what I could see. 
Round base was produced after the ones like this


----------



## jaykay1967

jermaink said:


> Does anyone have any idea how these might sound?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






ive just purchased an unboxed £28.50 1943 Westinghouse VU71 (5U4G/U52) playing Ak240 flac through WA6SE into hd800 and LCD-3f through nordost heimdall 2 cables. to compare i have the following from the top 20 on Dubstep's list: 2,3,4,7,8,10,18,19,20 and a half dozen others.

I'm hugely impressed. to my ears the Westinghouse u52 equivalent sits between 3 & 4 on the above list. for the price best value so far by a long stretch.

Jay


----------



## Riona

Hi Jay,
  
 Can you elaborate more? Placing it on par with GZ34 Metalbase for that price is very intriguing!  Where did you buy it from?
  
 BTW you mentioned VU71 that means it has "Canada" printed on the glass envelope and different from the pics posted by jermaink, right?
  
 Quote:


jaykay1967 said:


> ive just purchased an unboxed £28.50 1943 Westinghouse VU71 (5U4G/U52) playing Ak240 flac through WA6SE into hd800 and LCD-3f through nordost heimdall 2 cables. to compare i have the following from the top 20 on Dubstep's list: 2,3,4,7,8,10,18,19,20 and a half dozen others.
> 
> I'm hugely impressed. to my ears the Westinghouse u52 equivalent sits between 3 & 4 on the above list. for the price best value so far by a long stretch.
> 
> Jay


----------



## jermaink

The ones I saw I believe are also labeled 5U4G/VT244. Yeah, I'd be curious if they're the same or not.


----------



## jaykay1967

Riona - My account privs won't let me post pics but yes this is a Canadian tube with red writing on black base.  Sorry if I have misled Jermaink but my tube does look different.  It was via ebay from a guy in the UK.
  
 Compared to Mullard GZ34 metal - I just did half hour test with both tubes, a few favourite songs and both headphones. I believe both tubes are burnt in but can't provide hard evidence.  I'm torn.  My head wants me to say that the exactness of the Mullard and the extra separation of the instruments justifies the price difference but my ears say its doesn't.  The westinghouse does a really good job in my opinion.  This is all about personal preference but the fact that I'm swaying so much is sort of my point.  For something like one-fifth or less of the price of some of my other tubes this has been a good buy.  I've just bought another two today for total of £41.60.  I'm hunting for a few more before price jumps.


----------



## jhljhl

jaykay1967 said:


> Riona - My account privs won't let me post pics but yes this is a Canadian tube with red writing on black base.  Sorry if I have misled Jermaink but my tube does look different.  It was via ebay from a guy in the UK.
> 
> Compared to Mullard GZ34 metal - I just did half hour test with both tubes, a few favourite songs and both headphones. I believe both tubes are burnt in but can't provide hard evidence.  I'm torn.  My head wants me to say that the exactness of the Mullard and the extra separation of the instruments justifies the price difference but my ears say its doesn't.  The westinghouse does a really good job in my opinion.  This is all about personal preference but the fact that I'm swaying so much is sort of my point.  For something like one-fifth or less of the price of some of my other tubes this has been a good buy.  I've just bought another two today for total of £41.60.  I'm hunting for a few more before price jumps.


 

 What amp are you using?


----------



## jaykay1967

Woo Audio WA6SE


----------



## jhljhl

jaykay1967 said:


> Woo Audio WA6SE


 

 Others might disagree, but I didn't hear as dramatic a difference in changing rectifiers in the WA6se as compared with the WA22. I think with the WA22 the metal GZ34 benefits are more pronounced because the WA22 has a wider soundstage and a more midrange centric sound.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Others might disagree, but I didn't hear as dramatic a difference in changing rectifiers in the WA6se as compared with the WA22. I think with the WA22 the metal GZ34 benefits are more pronounced because the WA22 has a wider soundstage and a more midrange centric sound.



That is one rectifier I have never tried.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Others might disagree, but I didn't hear as dramatic a difference in changing rectifiers in the WA6se as compared with the WA22. I think with the WA22 the metal GZ34 benefits are more pronounced because the WA22 has a wider soundstage and a more midrange centric sound.


 
  
 It would be great if someone who has a metal Eindhoven-made GZ34 could compare it to a late 1950's Sittard-made black base GZ34. These Sittard tubes will have factory code "F31 X8- or X9-", where "-" will be a letter between A and L.
  
 I have come across a few observations claiming that these Sittard tubes are very close in sound to the metal Eindhoven tubes. And in my experience, I have noticed that ECC40 manufactured in Eindhoven and Sittard in the middle to late 1950's are also very close in sound.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> That is one rectifier I have never tried.


 
  
 Dubstep girl emphasized it's "liquid" nature and I agree- it is holographic especially if you mix with the right tubes like tungsol or sylvania and gec.  Dubstep was using a wa22 as well as wa6se I think when she was evaluating these rectifiers.
  


gibosi said:


> It would be great if someone who has a metal Eindhoven-made GZ34 could compare it to a late 1950's Sittard-made black base GZ34. These Sittard tubes will have factory code "F31 X8- or X9-", where "-" will be a letter between A and L.
> 
> I have come across a few observations claiming that these Sittard tubes are very close in sound to the metal Eindhoven tubes. And in my experience, I have noticed that ECC40 manufactured in Eindhoven and Sittard in the middle to late 1950's are also very close in sound.


 
  
 I haven't tried Sittard.  Ecc40 is a compatible rectifier?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I haven't tried Sittard.  Ecc40 is a compatible rectifier?


 
  
 The ECC40 is an all-glass miniature, medium mu, double triode. It was developed by European Philips as a successor to the 6SN7. Due to its non-standard Rimlock base, it never really took hold in the US, but was commonly used in Europe through at least the late 1960's.
  
 In my opinion, 1950's Sittard-made and Eindhoven-made ECC40 sound very similar. That said, I admit that it might be a bit of a stretch to assume that because these signal tubes sound similar, rectifiers made by these two factories might also sound similar. On the other hand, to my ears, the sound of the Sittard GZ34 in my Glenn is quite liquid and holographic, so I do wonder how it compares to the metal Eindhoven....


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> The ECC40 is an all-glass miniature, medium mu, double triode. It was developed by European Philips as a successor to the 6SN7. Due to its non-standard Rimlock base, it never really took hold in the US, but was commonly used in Europe through at least the late 1960's.
> 
> In my opinion, 1950's Sittard-made and Eindhoven-made ECC40 sound very similar. That said, I admit that it might be a bit of a stretch to assume that because these signal tubes sound similar, rectifiers made by these two factories might also sound similar. On the other hand, to my ears, the sound of the Sittard GZ34 in my Glenn is quite liquid and holographic, so I do wonder how it compares to the metal Eindhoven....


 
 Do you use an ecc40 to 6sn7 adapter?


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Do you use an ecc40 to 6sn7 adapter?


 
  
 Yep. I picked up an expensive one off eBay and it works fine. I like the late 1940's through the mid 1950's production the best. Sometime during the 1960's, it appears that the factories at Eindhoven, Sittard, Suresnes and Hamburg had been shutdown and production consolidated into the factory located in Chartres.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> Yep. I picked up an expensive one off eBay and it works fine. I like the late 1940's through the mid 1950's production the best. Sometime during the 1960's, it appears that the factories at Eindhoven, Sittard, Suresnes and Hamburg had been shutdown and production consolidated into the factory located in Chartres.



So I thought these were rectifiers? No?


----------



## gibosi

3083joe said:


> So I thought these were rectifiers? No?


 
  
 As above, ECC40 are double triodes, very similar to 6SN7. I only brought them up because Eindhoven and Sittard ECC40 production sounds very similar. And therefore, I wonder if Eindhoven and Sittard GZ34 production also sound very similar.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> As above, ECC40 are double triodes, very similar to 6SN7. I only brought them up because Eindhoven and Sittard ECC40 production sounds very similar. And therefore, I wonder if Eindhoven and Sittard GZ34 production also sound very similar.



Got ya


----------



## jhljhl

gibosi said:


> As above, ECC40 are double triodes, very similar to 6SN7. I only brought them up because Eindhoven and Sittard ECC40 production sounds very similar. And therefore, I wonder if Eindhoven and Sittard GZ34 production also sound very similar.


 
 Not sure these will work in the wa5le.  I know the ecc31 don't work without adapters that are very specific to wa5le according to Glenn.  Adapters off ebay worked fine in the WA22.


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> Not sure these will work in the wa5le.  I know the ecc31 don't work without adapters that are very specific to wa5le according to Glenn.  Adapters off ebay worked fine in the WA22.


 
  
 Rolling ECC40 isn't really significantly different than rolling 6F8G, so these should be fine in your amp with a simple pin-adapter. But evidently, ECC31, and other double triodes with a common cathode, are just too strange for the wa5le.


----------



## MIKELAP

Got myself a nice GZ34 /5AR4 sounds really nice airy spacious dont have a brand looks to be made in England has 2 O getters  got part of a code F31   B8F    .Would that be right Made in Blackburn -1968- june


----------



## abvolt

cool I've got one also they sound great the mullards are some of the finest sounding in my collection..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> cool I've got one also they sound great the mullards are some of the finest sounding in my collection..


 
 I would agree ,very airy spacious presentation would you agree


----------



## abvolt

I do agree the soundstage & clarity of this rectifier is really enjoyable, I also like the mullard gz30 less money great sound. Recently pick up a mullard gz33 which is really a fun tube to listen to also.  The gz37 is another great mullard that should be tried..enjoy


----------



## Oskari

mikelap said:


> Got myself a nice GZ34 /5AR4 sounds really nice airy spacious dont have a brand looks to be made in England has 2 O getters  got part of a code F31   B8F    .Would that be right Made in Blackburn -1968- june


 
  
 The code puts it in 1958.


----------



## Feedbacker

Sorry for what may be a beginner's question, but can someone confirm whether a Mullard 5Z4GT is the same as a GZ30? Is that right, or is there a difference?
  
 Thanks...


----------



## abvolt

feedbacker said:


> Sorry for what may be a beginner's question, but can someone confirm whether a Mullard 5Z4GT is the same as a GZ30? Is that right, or is there a difference?
> 
> Thanks...


 
  
 They are not only different in appearance but much different in sq as well, Both have really excellent sound quality I think the 5z4gt goes a little deeper with bass and the clarity & mids are better with the gz30 just my opinion, a equivalent tube to a gz 30 is the 5z4gt  I enjoy both tubes..


----------



## Feedbacker

Thanks abvolt! Really helpful. I've got hold of a 5Z4GT, so going to roll it into my WA6SE...


----------



## m17xr2b

I read somewhere the brown base MOV tubes were ment for audio and the black one for industrial use.Is there any truth to this?


----------



## Oskari

m17xr2b said:


> I read somewhere the brown base MOV tubes were ment for audio and the black one for industrial use.Is there any truth to this?


 
  
 Poppycock!


----------



## abvolt

Well guys I just pick-up a Brimar 5R4GY I found it very tuney it offers a really laid-back presentation that is warm, it's similar to my Mullard GZ37 but better in the low-end this tube goes deeper then the GZ37 and It's bass is tighter and cleaner, I feel this rectifier is extremely good for it's price, If you've not heard one it's well worth a try. I've also tried a RCA VT-244 smooth plate Wow that tube for 25. is very sweet sounding definitely one of my favorite lower cost tubes..enjoy


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> Well guys I just pick-up a Brimar 5R4GY I found it very tuney it offers a really laid-back presentation that is warm, it's similar to my Mullard GZ37 but better in the low-end this tube goes deeper then the GZ37 and It's bass is tighter and cleaner, I feel this rectifier is extremely good for it's price, If you've not heard one it's well worth a try. I've also tried a RCA VT-244 smooth plate Wow that tube for 25. is very sweet sounding definitely one of my favorite lower cost tubes..enjoy



The GZ 37 fat bottle or thin?


----------



## abvolt

It's the mullard thin bottle a very nice sounding tube no doubt, I've always wanted to try the fat bottle mullard but price is high 450-500 plus very hard to find hopefully someday I'll get one..


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> It's the mullard thin bottle a very nice sounding tube no doubt, I've always wanted to try the fat bottle mullard but price is high 450-500 plus very hard to find hopefully someday I'll get one..


 

 I think they go for $200 on up on ebay.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-COSSOR-CV378-53KU-GZ37-NEW-IN-BOX-/291662907344?hash=item43e876c7d0:g:HssAAOSw9mFWI6re
 This is a pair for $550.


----------



## MIKELAP

Received this rectifier a Bendix 6106 using it in my WA22 along with 5998 and ECC31 sounds good .


----------



## abvolt

That's a great combo I use the same but switch out the rectifier a lot using a Brimar 5r4gy right now awesome sounding..


----------



## gibosi

jhljhl said:


> I think they go for $200 on up on ebay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-COSSOR-CV378-53KU-GZ37-NEW-IN-BOX-/291662907344?hash=item43e876c7d0:g:HssAAOSw9mFWI6re
> This is a pair for $550.


 
  
 If one is patient and careful, Cossor 53KU/CV378 can be found for less. I have four and the most I paid is $150.
  
 Coupled with 5998's and a GEC/Marconi B36 (a 12 volt version of the B65) makes for a killer combination.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks that's awesome to know one can find them at a more affordable price, I always assumed they were pricey because I've seen them on tube world for like 495. each I'll definitely keep my eyes out for one..


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> Thanks that's awesome to know one can find them at a more affordable price, I always assumed they were pricey because I've seen them on tube world for like 495. each I'll definitely keep my eyes out for one..


 
 I consider the fat bottle gz37 on par with the u52 in quality.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I think they go for $200 on up on ebay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-COSSOR-CV378-53KU-GZ37-NEW-IN-BOX-/291662907344?hash=item43e876c7d0:g:HssAAOSw9mFWI6re
> This is a pair for $550.



Yeah 300ish


----------



## Contrails

Abvolt, I tried the Brimar 5r4gy along with the Mullard gz32.  The Brimar was more laid back but with a bigger sounstage.  
  
 I am curious to try the WE422a.  Do we need an adapter to plug it into the WA22?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## jhljhl

contrails said:


> Abvolt, I tried the Brimar 5r4gy along with the Mullard gz32.  The Brimar was more laid back but with a bigger sounstage.
> 
> I am curious to try the WE422a.  Do we need an adapter to plug it into the WA22?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Not necessarily I think however I got an adapter from Glenn which made it very silent.


----------



## abvolt

contrails said:


> Abvolt, I tried the Brimar 5r4gy along with the Mullard gz32.  The Brimar was more laid back but with a bigger sounstage.
> 
> I am curious to try the WE422a.  Do we need an adapter to plug it into the WA22?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 You don't need an adapter for that tube, have you tried a gz 33 I really enjoy that tube another tube that has surprised me was the  late 1940's rca vt-244 smooth plate for a inexpensive tube it's very nice,well worth a try..


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> Abvolt, I tried the Brimar 5r4gy along with the Mullard gz32.  The Brimar was more laid back but with a bigger sounstage.
> 
> I am curious to try the WE422a.  Do we need an adapter to plug it into the WA22?
> 
> Thanks.



Don't have to but I used a socket saver which made it silent.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

*Just a quick note to thank Dubstep Girl* for  this seminal work.  Also appreciate all the other contributors.  Based strictly on the preliminary post, I did purchase a valve. And am very pleased to say that you are spot on with your comments on 18. Mullard GZ32/CV593/5V4. Plugged that cryo-ed bad boy in and  like instant nirvana-ish. Wow! Enjoyed the sound. Ordered backups right away! Thanks again DSG for taking the time to share.
  
 Cheers


----------



## abvolt

I agree the mullard gz 32 is an awesome sounding tube..Enjoy


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Thank you, I shall.  Right now I am like a little kid ripping open packages.  Today's tube is a little black metal cylinder. JAN 5Z4 - this one will take some burn in, but am quite enjoying and hope it will mature nicely! The hot sound that is currently being produced is outstanding on acoustic guitars.  Can see long term will be electing a genre and then pre-setting the tubes accordingly.  Ha Ha.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## abvolt

I know that feeling ever so well it's a hard one to shake once you start..Enjoy


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Thank you.  Cheers!


----------



## spyder1

This list might be posted earlier in this thread, but http://tinyurl.com/4wbv5qn, is a "Tube Compatibility Chart," for all Woo Amplifiers. It helped me with re-tubing my WA6


----------



## abvolt

spyder1 said:


> This list might be posted earlier in this thread, but http://tinyurl.com/4wbv5qn, is a "Tube Compatibility Chart," for all Woo Amplifiers. It helped me with re-tubing my WA6


 
 Cool thanks..


----------



## h00hbt

Hi
  
 Did you measure the difference in B+ for the various tubes?


----------



## abvolt

? explain..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hello folks,
I recently received my wa6, and it came with an extra rectifier. The label is rubbed off, so I did some research on the code. 

SG1-B9A(square getter)

The only tube that popped up on Google, was a Mullard Blackburn GZ32,
(http://hifido.co.jp/KWQUAD/G2--/P/A1/J/0-60/S5/M1/C13-73472-82317-00/) with the same exact code. I don't want to assume that's what it is. So I'm hoping someone can verify by the pic. I'm pretty seasoned with 6922 variant tubes, but lost with this new journey. Lol. forgive me for the poor quality pic.


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> I recently received my wa6, and it came with an extra rectifier. The label is rubbed off, so I did some research on the code.
> 
> SG1-B9A(square getter)


 
  
 SG = 5V4G
  
 The 5V4G is often considered a plug-in replacement for the GZ32, However, it can't provide quite as much current as the GZ32 and therefore, in some applications it is a bit too "wimpy". 
  
 Edit: It is perfectly fine in a WA6, but in a Glenn OTL, it is borderline....
  
 1 = Revision #1
  
 B = Blackburn, Mullard
 9 = 1959
 A = January
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## abvolt

I think the 5v4g sounds nice for an inexpensive rectifier i have several different brands..Enjoy


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> SG = 5V4G
> 
> The 5V4G is often considered a plug-in replacement for the GZ32, However, it can't provide quite as much current as the GZ32 and therefore, in some applications it is a bit too "wimpy".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Edit2: To be more clear, both the 5V4G and the GZ32 are fine in the WA6. However, in a Glenn OTL, a 5V4G can't provide enough current and will likely burn-out in short order, and even the GZ32 is borderline....


----------



## punit

I will acquire this 300B pre-amp shortly for use in my speaker system & need some advice with regards to the rectifiers that can be used on it. It is made for using with a 274B, so can I also safely use 5U4G, U52, GZ37, 5R4, CV593, USAF 596 ?
  
 http://www.mei-xing.com/english/english/cp/3_300.html
  
 The manufacturer has not yet responded to my mail. Will be grateful for any advice.


----------



## gibosi

punit said:


> I will acquire this 300B pre-amp shortly for use in my speaker system & need some advice with regards to the rectifiers that can be used on it. It is made for using with a 274B, so can I also safely use 5U4G, U52, GZ37, 5R4, CV593, USAF 596 ?
> 
> http://www.mei-xing.com/english/english/cp/3_300.html
> 
> The manufacturer has not yet responded to my mail. Will be grateful for any advice.


 
  
 It would be most useful to know how much current this amp needs to operate. The Western Electrica 274B puts out 225 ma. Based on this, I would think it is safe to assume that any 5U4-type rectifier with a similar capacity would be fine. For example, comparable European rectifiers, such as the GZ33, GZ34, GZ37 and U52 can provide 250 ma, and therefore, they should be fine.
  
 That said, the Emission Labs 274B provides considerably less current, only about 150 ma. And if this is a suitable 274B , then the universe of possible rectifiers is even larger.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## punit

gibosi said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the feedback. The pre map comes  factory fitted with a Shuguang  274B . An internet search throws up the following info for the rectifier :
  
 Rectifier: 274B Compatible with: 5Z3P and 5Z3PA
 :
 •Maximum reversed voltage higher than 850V 
 • Output current can reach 150mA
 • No ignition effect when using in high voltage application 
  
 http://www.leisure-audio.com/Shuguang-274B(5U4G5Z3P)-vacuum-tubes-new-p42.html
  
 So based on above data can it be concluded that it is safe to roll above mentioned rectifiers ?


----------



## gibosi

punit said:


> Thank you for the feedback. The pre map comes  factory fitted with a Shuguang  274B . An internet search throws up the following info for the rectifier :
> 
> Rectifier: 274B Compatible with: 5Z3P and 5Z3PA
> :
> ...


 
  
 In my experience (running a Glenn OTL), the maximum output current is the major limiting factor in selecting suitable rectifiers to roll. And therefore, if the Shuguang 274B is adequate to run your new amp, then any 5U4-type rectifier that can provide at least 150 ma should also be fine. As all the rectifiers you listed above can provide around 250 ma, they are all more than up to the job.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Howdy.  I have some JAN CDR 1641  RK60  and they have writing on the top of the top plate.  Has anyone encountered this before? Asked this a while back on a Woo thread and did not get a response.
  

  
 Thanks.


----------



## abvolt

I've seen that before but have no idea what it means sorry..Great tube enjoy


----------



## 3083joe

bitten by bug said:


> Howdy.  I have some JAN CDR 1641  RK60  and they have writing on the top of the top plate.  Has anyone encountered this before? Asked this a while back on a Woo thread and did not get a response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seen its lots but not sure why it's there.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

abvolt said:


> I've seen that before but have no idea what it means sorry..Great tube enjoy


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> Seen its lots but not sure why it's there.


 
  
 Thanks for the response guys.  I have not previously encountered the writing and was curious if this was strange. Now I know it is not.   And @abvolt, thanks, am enjoying this quite a bit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok my fellow/fellette rectifier , friends. I need your help. I purchased a supposedly Brimar 5Z4G , from a local guy who sells all kinds of tubes. All the labels are rubbed off except for the 5.

We are both curious if it's what he and I both think it is. The one thing that's confusing is the getter style. He had another 5Z4G , that he was getting ready to ship out , and everything was absolutely identical but the getter. The one being shipped was an "O" getter. The one I got has this getter:



Not sure what you call it but it looks like a rectangular type upside down plate of some sort.

Hopefully one of the tube vets can chime in. My only knowledge of tubes are 6922 variants.

FWIW , It sounds amazing. Very organic and natural sounding. The mids are absolutely sweet. Very nice 3D , holographic, layered presentation. Reminds me of a Holland Heerlen Valvo or Miniwatt E188CC/CCa.


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> Ok my fellow/fellette rectifier , friends. I need your help. I purchased a supposedly Brimar 5Z4G , from a local guy who sells all kinds of tubes. All the labels are rubbed off except for the 5.
> 
> We are both curious if it's what he and I both think it is. The one thing that's confusing is the getter style. He had another 5Z4G , that he was getting ready to ship out , and everything was absolutely identical but the getter. The one being shipped was an "O" getter. The one I got has this getter:


 
  
 Generally speaking, foil getters were the norm in the early 1940s and halo getters were the norm starting around 1960. So if otherwise, these two tubes are identical, it is likely that one was simply manufactured 15 to 20 years earlier than the other.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Many thanks my friend! 

Cheers


gibosi said:


> Generally speaking, foil getters were the norm in the early 1940s and halo getters were the norm starting around 1960. So if otherwise, these two tubes are identical, it is likely that one was simply manufactured 15 to 20 years earlier than the other.


----------



## reggieplaysbass

Wow! Thank you so much for this thread!


----------



## J o e

reggieplaysbass said:


> Wow! Thank you so much for this thread!


 

 I second that!
 Found out through a search, magically much info here 
  
 Just re-registered because of this thread (long forgotten member here, couldn't even find my old info, must be my mailaccount that passed away)
  
 ..carry on!


----------



## leftside

Seems a little cheap for a Psvane 274B at $85 new? Replica of a replica?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181942988612?rmvSB=true


----------



## abvolt

guidostrunk said:


> Ok my fellow/fellette rectifier , friends. I need your help. I purchased a supposedly Brimar 5Z4G , from a local guy who sells all kinds of tubes. All the labels are rubbed off except for the 5.
> 
> We are both curious if it's what he and I both think it is. The one thing that's confusing is the getter style. He had another 5Z4G , that he was getting ready to ship out , and everything was absolutely identical but the getter. The one being shipped was an "O" getter. The one I got has this getter:
> 
> ...


 
 I also have this tube it's a great sounding rectifier..Enjoy


----------



## leftside

leftside said:


> Seems a little cheap for a Psvane 274B at $85 new? Replica of a replica?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181942988612?rmvSB=true


 
 Didn't realize there were two different Psvane 274B's. One is a "regular" 274B and the other is the "WE274B" replica.


----------



## punit

I have a GEC U52 with one broken pin. Will it still work ?


----------



## gurubhai

^Are you sure that it is a U52, because that looks like a B4 base to me?


----------



## punit

gurubhai said:


> ^Are you sure that it is a U52, because that looks like a B4 base to me?


 
 Pics of the tube. It normally has 5 pins, but this one has one pin broken. That's why I wanted to check if it can still be used ?


----------



## gurubhai

Yup, looks like this is CV31 aka U18/20, a 4V version of U52 with 4 pin European B4 base. Doubt that any any pin was ever broken, more like someone trying to drill in another hole for some incomprehensible reason.


----------



## punit

Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## 2359glenn

punit said:


> gurubhai said:
> 
> 
> > ^Are you sure that it is a U52, because that looks like a B4 base to me?
> ...


 

 It is a 4 pin tube that has a 4 volt heater Here is a adapter that will work with this tube with built in resistors to drop 5 volts to 4.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/U18-FW4-500-tube-adapter-to-instead-274B-5U4G-U52-socket-1pcs-/261772342579?hash=item3cf2d8f533m-LGaiGauDRfRt4v8ETsSyQ


----------



## leftside

I have a couple of fat bottle Cossor 53KU's. One has black base/black plates whilst the other has brown base/grey plates. The internals look very similar. Any idea when these tubes would have been made? At the same time, or one before the other? Is one "meant" to be better than the other? They are some of my favorite sounding rectifier tubes.


----------



## gibosi

The brown base was purported to provide better RF isolation and thus was more expensive. So one might conclude that the black base was standard and the brown base was an extra-cost option. I have two Cossor 53KU, both made in 1952, with dark-gray plates, but one has a brown base and the other a black base. I conclude that otherwise they are identical.
  
 I also have a couple of these rectifiers with black plates. Unfortunately, there are no dates on these tubes and I can not say when they were manufactured. Apparently, Cossor ceased the manufacture of tubes sometime after 1956, so I am inclined to think that black plates indicate earlier production, sometime before 1952, but this is just a WAG.


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried a vintage Chinese 5Z3PA rectifier? It can provide 250 ma of rectified current and it is plug and play in a 5U4G socket, no adapter necessary. I find the construction very interesting, quite different than any other that I have seen (in my limited experience).
  
 https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/095/5/5Z3Pa.pdf
  
 My tube was manufactured for the Chinese military in May, 1973, a year after President Nixon's trip to China.
  

  

  

  

  
 First impression, it seems quite neutral, without emphasizing any part of the frequency spectrum. But of course, I will need to take more time before I can come to any conclusions about the sound.


----------



## drumroaster

Hi, I'm about to order a few Brimar 5Z4GY from langrex. Is that still considered one of the better options for the WA6 and HD800S? I have the GE 6SN7GTB drivers right now. Are there any drivers I should consider checking out at langrex? I have the 6SN7 and 7n7 adaptors for the WA6. Thanks!


----------



## u2u2

drumroaster said:


> Hi, I'm about to order a few Brimar 5Z4GY from langrex. Is that still considered one of the better options for the WA6 and HD800S? I have the GE 6SN7GTB drivers right now. Are there any drivers I should consider checking out at langrex? I have the 6SN7 and 7n7 adaptors for the WA6. Thanks!


 

 The Brimar is a solid cost effective choice. I feed my WA6 with a couple of other Langrex sourced rectifiers as well: Mullard GZ 30 (CV2748) 1968, and RCA 5R4GY JAN, 1952. For 6SN7 drivers his GE Canada 6SN7GT and Raytheon 6SN7WGT (made for GE Canada) are both respectable choices. They aren't the usual favoured here but Langrex has superb true NOS examples. They are enjoyable in other amps such as the WA22 as well.


----------



## drumroaster

Thanks. I look forward to the Brimar 5Z4GY. The Sophia was a needed upgrade from the stock WA6 rectifier. If the Brimar holds its own compared to the sophia I'd be happy since it's cost way less.


----------



## abvolt

drumroaster said:


> Thanks. I look forward to the Brimar 5Z4GY. The Sophia was a needed upgrade from the stock WA6 rectifier. If the Brimar holds its own compared to the sophia I'd be happy since it's cost way less.


 
 That's one of my favorites sure you'll really enjoy, another one I like is a Amperex 5r4gy well worth a try..


----------



## 3083joe

drumroaster said:


> Thanks. I look forward to the Brimar 5Z4GY. The Sophia was a needed upgrade from the stock WA6 rectifier. If the Brimar holds its own compared to the sophia I'd be happy since it's cost way less.



Personally liked the 5r4 brimer over the 5z4 but it's a little more. Close to $100


----------



## abvolt

I'd also agree with joe, I've got an amperex & brimar 5r4gy both are much better then the brimar 5z4gy..enjoy


----------



## Badas

Can anyone tell me about these?
  
 This was sold to me as a 5U4G Solid State rectifier. A drop in replacement.
 Unlike other Solid State Rectifiers it looks like a tube and actually lights up and glows hot like a tube. GE markings with weird symbols on it.
  

  

  
 The sound is incredible. I usually use the TAK274B. One very nice tube. This GE out does it and it is only $20. Snappier than the TAK274B. Not more bass but cleaner, more treble with no distortion and the speed is lightning fast. Very holographic and like I said snappier. I like it a lot.
  
 I was warned to have a standby switch as the solid state rectifier can hurt the power and drive tubes. I timed the WA22. It has a 23 second warmup before engaging. Seemed to work fine.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Can anyone tell me about these?
> 
> This was sold to me as a 5U4G Solid State rectifier. A drop in replacement.
> Unlike other Solid State Rectifiers it looks like a tube and actually lights up and glows hot like a tube. GE markings with weird symbols on it.
> ...



Very interesting.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Very interesting.


 

 The damn thing sounds amazing. I've always wanted a hybrid amp. Just drive and power tubes. Rectifiers only change AC power to DC and Solid State can do it better.
 These drop in Solid State rectifiers essentially changes the amps into hybrids.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> The damn thing sounds amazing. I've always wanted a hybrid amp. Just drive and power tubes. Rectifiers only change AC power to DC and Solid State can do it better.
> 
> These drop in Solid State rectifiers essentially changes the amps into hybrids.



Very sweet. 
Maybe one day I'll get to hear one.


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone tell me about these?
> ...


 
 Same goes for the #83 Mercury vapor rectifier they say it is best to warm it up before using full power i warm it up in my tube tester


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> The damn thing sounds amazing. I've always wanted a hybrid amp. Just drive and power tubes. Rectifiers only change AC power to DC and Solid State can do it better.
> These drop in Solid State rectifiers essentially changes the amps into hybrids.


 
  
 It is my understanding that a "hybrid amp" has a tubed driver stage and solid state output stage. For example, the Little Dot 1+, Lyr and Liquid Glass.


----------



## Badas

gibosi said:


> It is my understanding that a "hybrid amp" has a tubed driver stage and solid state output stage. For example, the Little Dot 1+, Lyr and Liquid Glass.


 

 It can be a hybrid of anything. To myself and a friend we have been talking about getting rid of rectifiers. They don't do much anyway. We wish more manufacturers drop rectifiers. Using these solid state rectifiers is kinda doing that.
  
 This SS rectifier is doing a better job than the very expensive TAK274B.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> It is my understanding that a "hybrid amp" has a tubed driver stage and solid state output stage.




That, or in rare cases the other way round; rectifiers don't count.


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> That, or in rare cases the other way round; rectifiers don't count.


 

 If it doesn't count then why do they make tube amps with rectifiers? I'm not being rude. Just curious. Hope this comes across the right way.


----------



## Oskari

badas said:


> If it doesn't count then why do they make tube amps with rectifiers? I'm not being rude. Just curious. Hope this comes across the right way.




It doesn't count defining a hybrid amp.


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> It doesn't count defining a hybrid amp.


 

 Okay.
  
 Has anyone had experience with these SS rectifiers? Are they safe to use?
 Certainly sound fabulous. I have another SS rectifier coming as well.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't count defining a hybrid amp.
> ...


 
 Ya gibosi tried these recently might try the GLENNS THREAD


----------



## gibosi

badas said:


> Has anyone had experience with these SS rectifiers? Are they safe to use?
> Certainly sound fabulous. I have another SS rectifier coming as well.


 
  
 I have a hexfred SS rectifier that plugs into a 5U4 socket and it does sound great. And yes, in my experience, they are perfectly safe to use. However, with certain driver/output tube combinations, I still prefer vacuum tube rectifiers. In the end, it is all about synergy. Sometimes the hexfred is better and sometimes it's not.


----------



## Badas

gibosi said:


> I have a hexfred SS rectifier that plugs into a 5U4 socket and it does sound great. And yes, in my experience, they are perfectly safe to use. However, with certain driver/output tube combinations, I still prefer vacuum tube rectifiers. In the end, it is all about synergy. Sometimes the hexfred is better and sometimes it's not.


 

 Can you link or show me what a hexfred is?
  
 I'm going to try one of these as well:
  
 http://www.tedweber.com/gadgets/copper-cap-rectifiers
  
 They are suppose to be the best. I've been in contact and they suggest WU4GB


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone had experience with these SS rectifiers? Are they safe to use?
> ...


 
 Do you warm hexfred up somehow before using in your amp  i think i saw something about this


----------



## gibosi

mikelap said:


> Do you warm hexfred up somehow before using in your amp  i think i saw something about this


 
  
 No I don't. They don't seem to need it and Glenn has never mentioned doing this....
  


badas said:


> Can you link or show me what a hexfred is?


 
  
 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-does-a-hexfred-do


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't count defining a hybrid amp.
> ...


 

 Were did you get that GE SS rectifier?


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Were did you get that GE SS rectifier?


 

 Hi Glenn,
 Is it actually a SS rectifier? It was sold as one. However is looks and acts as a tube. Gets hot and glows at the top and bottom of the plates.
 I'm kinda guessing it is a hybrid tube. SS on the bottom and tube at the top (maybe for cosmetic purpose?). I'm wondering what happens when the tube wears out.
  
 Purchased from eBay for $18.00. There is a few more for sale.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just bought one off eBay. Will report back. Lol
Cheers

Ps: I'll be using it with a Wa6.


badas said:


> Hi Glenn,
> Is it actually a SS rectifier? It was sold as one. However is looks and acts as a tube. Gets hot and glows at the top and bottom of the plates.
> 
> I'm kinda guessing it is a hybrid tube. SS on the bottom and tube at the top (maybe for cosmetic purpose?). I'm wondering what happens when the tube wears out.
> ...


----------



## Badas

I got this back from the seller.
  






 
 New message from: visci05 (5,226
	

)​  
  ​ Hi. Thank you for the good feedback. In the base located solid state rectifier. From real tube used just filament . If filament burn, this rectifier keep working. We did it just to keep radio in original look. Thanks
  
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Your previous message​ Hi,
 I received this last night. Super fast delivery thank you.
 I was wondering if you know? This really looks like a tube and acts like a tube.
 Is it kind of a hybrid? Part solid state and part tube?
 Does the tube part actually effect the sound or is it just for looks/character?
 If the tube part wears out will the solid state part continue to work?
 Were these made some while back?

 Sorry for all the questions. Just curious. Don't worry about rating. You will get 5/5 from me. Quick fast service and goods exactly as described.​


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got mine from the same guy. What are your thoughts? 





badas said:


> I got this back from the seller.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Badas

guidostrunk said:


> Got mine from the same guy. What are your thoughts?


 

 Best sounding rectifier I've heard in my amp.
 Better than the TAK274B, Brimar 5Z4GY and Mullard GZ32's that I own and have tried.


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW!
That TAK , is pricey. That's insane bro!


badas said:


> Best sounding rectifier I've heard in my amp.
> 
> Better than the TAK274B, Brimar 5Z4GY and Mullard GZ32's that I own and have tried.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Best sounding rectifier I've heard in my amp.
> Better than the TAK274B, Brimar 5Z4GY and Mullard GZ32's that I own and have tried.


 

 Better than Tak274b that is quite a bargain.


----------



## Badas

guidostrunk said:


> WOW!
> That TAK , is pricey. That's insane bro!


 
  
  


jhljhl said:


> Better than Tak274b that is quite a bargain.


 
  
 Of course that is just my opinion. Different techs.
  
 Solid State has the same amount of bass but is clearer less boomy. Treble is higher and more detailed. I was listening for harshness and I didn't hear any. Mid-range is coming from my drivers (Tung-Sol round plates). I thought holographics might take a hit. Not so. Speed has improved a lot. Speed now sounds like a solid state amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm totally stoked for this "tube". Lol. I will definitely report back. I'll be comparing it to a Osram U52. 


badas said:


> Of course that is just my opinion. Different techs.
> 
> Solid State has the same amount of bass but is clearer less boomy. Treble is higher and more detailed. I was listening for harshness and I didn't hear any. Mid-range is coming from my drivers (Tung-Sol round plates). I thought holographics might take a hit. Not so. Speed has improved a lot. Speed now sounds like a solid state amp.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Of course that is just my opinion. Different techs.
> 
> Solid State has the same amount of bass but is clearer less boomy. Treble is higher and more detailed. I was listening for harshness and I didn't hear any. Mid-range is coming from my drivers (Tung-Sol round plates). I thought holographics might take a hit. Not so. Speed has improved a lot. Speed now sounds like a solid state amp.


 

 Yeah that sounds like what I thought a solid state rectifier might do- Cary Audio uses hexfred and it lets the driver and input tubes be more transparent.


----------



## 2359glenn

Be careful the B+ voltage in the amp will be 50 volts higher with SS rectifiers.
 Just because my amps can handle it don't mean others can. If the filter capacitors aren't over rated you can blow them up


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Be careful the B+ voltage in the amp will be 50 volts higher with SS rectifiers.
> Just because my amps can handle it don't mean others can. If the filter capacitors aren't over rated you can blow them up




I was reading about some of that stuff on the net. How do we know or find out?
My WA22 middle transformer is warmer than usual. Not hot, not even mid warm. Just under mid warm. So I figure there is extra voltage going through. 

Using it right now. Geez detail has taken a big bump for the better. 
I also did a speed test. My WA22 is now solid state fast. Previously it fell apart on speed badly.


----------



## jermaink

Has anyone tried the Brimar 5Y3GT? I quite like the one I've got but I've never really heard it spoken of.


----------



## Badas

Update on the SS rectifier. I've removed. My amp was getting very, very hot. I used it for 3 hours yesterday and the whole amp was very warm. Transformers borderline hot. So I thought it was better to go back to tube rectification TAK274B until I find out more about SS tubes or a alternative SS tube.


----------



## 2359glenn

Get this it has the proper voltage drop and should work fine.
 http://www.tedweber.com/wu4gb


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Get this it has the proper voltage drop and should work fine.
> http://www.tedweber.com/wu4gb




Thank you Glenn. Your knowledge is soooo valuable. 

Have you considered making some of your amps with a SS rectifier?

I hope you are keeping well mate. It's been a while since we have chatted. Was your holday great?


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Get this it has the proper voltage drop and should work fine.
> ...


 

 I am dong good
 SS rectification is better then tube no voltage sag when the amp draws more current.
 The only thing I like about tube is slow turn on but with 5U4 types there is no slow turn on so why use them in the first place.
 More so is because they look cool. SS rectifiers if they are HEXFRED are as low noise and will blow all tube rectifiers away.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> I am dong good
> SS rectification is better then tube no voltage sag when the amp draws more current.
> The only thing I like about tube is slow turn on but with 5U4 types there is no slow turn on so why use them in the first place.
> More so is because they look cool. SS rectifiers if they are HEXFRED are as low noise and will blow all tube rectifiers away.




I've heard you have made HEXFRED rectifiers in the past. Is it possible to make one for a WA22?

Any pics of what they look like?


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am dong good
> ...


 

 I have made them for my amps refused to make them for woo amps not sure if they would blow the capacitors.
 I can look into  making one with a resistor to give the voltage drop of a tube.
 Maybe with a Zener diode that would give the drop but the voltage out would be stiff with no voltage sag.
 If you want one contact me then I will look into making one it will need a heat sink to cool the zener diode inside.


----------



## leftside

Glenn, I'd also like to know if you make them for the WA22. I'd like to try them out. The biggest problem is that the tube rectifiers on the WA22 right in the middle of the amp look so nice!
  
 I have to say though that I've tried many rectifiers in the WA22. I can't tell too much difference between them, and part of me thinks this whole thread is nothing but snake oil 
  
 Update: Glenn we posted at almost the same time. I'll let Badas try out the first one


----------



## 2359glenn

leftside said:


> Glenn, I'd also like to know if you make them for the WA22. I'd like to try them out. The biggest problem is that the tube rectifiers on the WA22 right in the middle of the amp look so nice!
> 
> I have to say though that I've tried many rectifiers in the WA22. I can't tell too much difference between them, and part of me thinks this whole thread is nothing but snake oil
> 
> Update: Glenn we posted at almost the same time. I'll let Badas try out the first one


 

 I will have to order some high power zener diodes and see what I can do.


----------



## Rossliew

I can attest that Glenn's hexfred rectifiers are the deal! Sound tightens and you get a more transparent and faster sounding amp. Cheaper in the long run as well considering how expensive some of these rectifier tubes can cost


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Get this it has the proper voltage drop and should work fine.
> http://www.tedweber.com/wu4gb


 
  
  


2359glenn said:


> I have made them for my amps refused to make them for woo amps not sure if they would blow the capacitors.
> I can look into  making one with a resistor to give the voltage drop of a tube.
> Maybe with a Zener diode that would give the drop but the voltage out would be stiff with no voltage sag.
> If you want one contact me then I will look into making one it will need a heat sink to cool the zener diode inside.


 
  
 Thanks. I might take you up on that in the near future. I think I will give the weber a shot first. I will order it today.


rossliew said:


> I can attest that Glenn's hexfred rectifiers are the deal! Sound tightens and you get a more transparent and faster sounding amp. Cheaper in the long run as well considering how expensive some of these rectifier tubes can cost


 
  
 Do you have a pic of your one?


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> Thanks. I might take you up on that in the near future. I think I will give the weber a shot first. I will order it today.
> 
> Do you have a pic of your one?






Here u go, with the glossy epoxy


----------



## Rossliew

Perhaps this shot is clearer.


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Here u go, with the glossy epoxy


 
  
  


rossliew said:


> Perhaps this shot is clearer.


 
  
 Thanks. Weird looking devices. I think I will get one made. Just out of interest.
 I will give Copper caps a go first.


----------



## MIKELAP

I asked Woo about these solid state rectifiers this is there reply


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> I asked Woo about these solid state rectifiers this is there reply


 

 That is similar to what I got:
  
_Dear Donovan,_
  
_Thank you for taking the time to write us. The LED is blinks when the amp is warming up the tubes. This is a soft start feature we’ve built into the amp. Completely normal. _
  
_In general, solid state rectifiers should NOT be used in all-tube designs. Doing so may cause damage to the amplifier and would void the factory warranty. We do not recommend to use any tube or products outside of ones listed in our tubes compatibility chart. _

_http://tinyurl.com/hqtcx3s

 Have a great weekend!_
  
 It seems to be a standard approach. Copper caps will be the way to go. In my email he states the WA22 has a soft start. So no issue with cathode stripping of the other tubes. Copper caps themselves have a 2 second soft start as well. Then Copper Caps have a B+ 50 volt drop just like a normal rectifier. The Woo amps won't even know the copper cap is solid state.
 Anyhow. Give me some time. I have two coming and will have them soon. I will report.


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> I would say these hexfreds are worth every penny spent on them. But again please make sure they won't harm your woo amp..Glenn would be the best person for advice
> 
> 
> Thanks. Weird looking devices. I think I will get one made. Just out of interest.
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

I am looking into building a SS rectifier adapter with a balast tube that plugs into the top like any adapter.
 The balast tube will drop the voltage and look like a 5U4G
 Here is one.
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_10a10.html


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> I am looking into building a SS rectifier adapter with a balast tube that plugs into the top like any adapter.
> The balast tube will drop the voltage and look like a 5U4G
> Here is one.
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_10a10.html


 

 So will a amp not really know that a SS tube is installed?
  
 The SS tube will act like a regular tube but have the SS sound advantages?
  
 If so then count me in. Build two. I will take one.
  
 It looks awesome.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I am looking into building a SS rectifier adapter with a balast tube that plugs into the top like any adapter.
> ...


 

 If it is the right voltage drop the amp won't know the difference.
 With just diodes the B+ voltage will be to high maybe according to the amp.
  
 When your amp got hot what output tubes were you using?
  
 I want to make it and still look good still have a tube Just a balast tube maybe no glow unless the amp draws allot.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> If it is the right voltage drop the amp won't know the difference.
> With just diodes the B+ voltage will be to high maybe according to the amp.
> 
> When your amp got hot what output tubes were you using?
> ...


 

 My amp was using Tung-Sol 6C8G Drivers and GE6AS7GA power tubes. As pictured:
  

  
  
 At two hours the middle transformer got warm. Nothing serious.
 At three hours it was hot. Not burn your hand hot. You could keep your hand on the transformer for as long as you want. But I would say it was very warm to hottish.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If it is the right voltage drop the amp won't know the difference.
> ...


 

 Did you try with 6BL7s?


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Did you try with 6BL7s?


 
  
 No. But I have many sets. I could.
  
 My concern was the middle transformer hadn't been hot before. It is usually the outer ones that get warmish.
 When I used the SS rectifier all transformers got warm/hottish.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Did you try with 6BL7s?
> ...


 

 You may have been over voltage for 6AS7s and they drew to much current.
 6BL7s can handle higher voltage then a 6SN7 type.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> You may have been over voltage for 6AS7s and they drew to much current.
> 6BL7s can handle higher voltage then a 6SN7 type.


 

 I will switch out the tubes and try. I will still want one of your creations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 At the moment I installed NU 6F8G drivers. They go noisy with 6BL7 tubes. Stay quiet with 6AS7. Go figure.
  
 So tonight I will try that SS rectifier with Tung-Sol 6C8G drivers and a single 6BL7 power tube per 6080 socket. Then report.


----------



## Rossliew

If Glenn's creation works, a lot of Woo amp owners will be spamming his inbox! Hahaha


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> If Glenn's creation works, a lot of Woo amp owners will be spamming his inbox! Hahaha


 

 Heck yeah! SS rectifiers lifted the WA22 to a new level. During those few hours I used a SS rectifier I hadn't heard it so great.

 It was very snappy clean sounding. Reminded me of the WA5.


----------



## gibosi

If an SS rectifier is modified to drop 50 volts then what is the advantage to using one? If I understand correctly, that "snappy clean sound" is largely a result of the fact that an unmodified SS rectifier drops only one volt, resulting in a high B+, But unfortunately a B+ that is too high for Woo amps.
  
 Since the GZ34 (voltage drop = 17) is on the approved list, maybe an SS rectifier that drops 15 volts would be safe in a Woo and yet still sound pretty snappy?


----------



## 2359glenn

gibosi said:


> If an SS rectifier is modified to drop 50 volts then what is the advantage to using one? If I understand correctly, that "snappy clean sound" is largely a result of the fact that an unmodified SS rectifier drops only one volt, resulting in a high B+, But unfortunately a B+ that is too high for Woo amps.
> 
> Since the GZ34 (voltage drop = 17) is on the approved list, maybe an SS rectifier that drops 15 volts would be safe in a Woo and yet still sound pretty snappy?


 

 Your right I have to get back on track and order some 17 volt zener diodes 50watt.


----------



## Badas

Glenn,
  
 GE Solid State rectifier, Tung-Sol 6C8G's and Sylvania 6BL7's.
  
 You were right. I had it on for 2 hours 45 minutes last night. No heat. Not even warm. Transformers got to room temperature at the most. So the 6BL7's handled a lot better than 6AS7G tubes.
  
 The sound was a bit so, so. 6AS7G sounded better. Sound was a little dry. Analytical.
 It sounded amazing when the 6AS7G's were installed. A bit more mid-range.
 So if a solid state rectifier can be made with the right voltage for 6080/6AS7G power tubes then that would be a real winner.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> Glenn,
> 
> GE Solid State rectifier, Tung-Sol 6C8G's and Sylvania 6BL7's.
> 
> ...


 

 I ordered parts today to make a SS rectifier with 17 volt drop like a GZ34/5AR4.
 Have you tried a GZ34 rectifier in your amp??


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> I ordered parts today to make a SS rectifier with 17 volt drop like a GZ34/5AR4.
> *Have you tried a GZ34 rectifier in your amp??*


 
  
 Yes. Only once before. I tried the Mullard GZ34 metal base that everyone raves about. Sounded horrid in the WA22. I rolled it out after one session. It didn't overheat the amp at all tho.
  
 17 volt drop rectifier sounds like a plan.


----------



## Badas

My Weber Copper Caps have shipped. With the 50 volt drop. They will be interesting.

 I should get them in a week or two.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> My Weber Copper Caps have shipped. With the 50 volt drop. They will be interesting.
> 
> I should get them in a week or two.


 
 Let me know how they sound they should be similar to your 274B


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Let me know how they sound they should be similar to your 274B


 

 Will do. Another advantage I have picked up on Solid State in noise level.
 Before I was getting a little background hum with some tubes. It seems a lot quieter now.


----------



## Badas

Some more Solid State mucking around.
  
 Tried one of these:
  

  

  
 Sounded the same as the other Solid State rectifier which is really nice. However it had the same over heat issue where at 2 hours the whole amp gets very hot.
  
 Then I got the Weber Copper Caps (ordered two).
  

  

  
 This is the bomb. The best sound. Everything is better than the best tube rectifier I own (Takasuzuki 274B). Sweeter clearer treble which produced more detail. I heard things in my favorite tracks that I hadn't heard before. Alison Krauss's New Favorite. Her voice croaks on some high notes. Never heard that before. Noise level is extremely low. Just not there at all. I've always had one of my drive tubes (TS RP 6C8G) that on occasion got a little buzzy/hum sound. Not a bit of noise from it last night. I've noted some rectifiers work better with the other tubes in the amp. Solid State kept them all dead quiet. I would guess good clean voltage keeps the other tubes happy. Holographics and soundstage sounded as good as the TAK274B. Bass deeper and clearer. Speed was excellent. Not as quick as the other SS rectifiers but better than the TAK274B. I'm not too worried about speed. It sounded good enough and I don't listen to a lot of lightning fast music.
 Music in general had more snap and sounded far more natural.
  
 With the amp on for three hours the amp was warm. No heat issues. Normal tube rectifier makes the amp hotter.
  
 I adore Weber's Copper Cap. May look odd however it sounds amazing.


----------



## Rossliew

Now I wonder if this copper thingy would work with Glenn's OTL ...


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Now I wonder if this copper thingy would work with Glenn's OTL ...


 

 As long as the amp has a soft start where it lets the other tubes warm up for 20 seconds or so then yeah it should work. Essentially the amp just thinks it is a tube.


----------



## gibosi

rossliew said:


> Now I wonder if this copper thingy would work with Glenn's OTL ...


 
  
 Yes.
  
 But you already have one of Glenn's HEXFREDs, so there is nothing to be gained from using the Copper Cap.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Now I wonder if this copper thingy would work with Glenn's OTL ...
> ...


 

 What does a soft start have to do with anything?


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> What does a soft start have to do with anything?


 
  
 I thought the other tubes would need a warm up period so the instant voltage from the SS rectifier didn't effect the filiment?????


----------



## Rossliew

gibosi said:


> Yes.
> 
> But you already have one of Glenn's HEXFREDs, so there is nothing to be gained from using the Copper Cap.




True but I thought it might be fun to roll some SS rectifiers for the fun of it since they don't cost as much as some of the more exotic tube ones


----------



## jhljhl

rk60 tube prices going up?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RARE-GL-1641-1641-NOS-NEW-MATCHED-PAIR-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-RECTIFIER-TUBES-596-/272362895994?hash=item3f6a17fa7a:g:XiUAAOSwGtRXyk-P


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> rk60 tube prices going up?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RARE-GL-1641-1641-NOS-NEW-MATCHED-PAIR-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-RECTIFIER-TUBES-596-/272362895994?hash=item3f6a17fa7a:g:XiUAAOSwGtRXyk-P



Wow that's robbery. 
But to my ears they sound better than the 596


----------



## donato

@Badas, which copper cap is this?  is it the WU4GB COPPER CAP with the 50V drop?  Did you consider the WZ34 COPPER CAP with the 17V drop?


----------



## Badas

Yes. WU4GB and 50 volt drop. 
I have concidered the WZ34 however I just wanted to try WU4GB first for safety. 
I may get WZ34 but at the moment WU4GB is ticking all the boxes.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Wow that's robbery.
> But to my ears they sound better than the 596


 

 Someone bought them. And I agree they sound better - at least more balanced sounding to me. 596 is a bit more u shaped I think.


----------



## jhljhl

596 rectifiers being sold now at lower prices then before.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/262686319567


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> 596 rectifiers being sold now at lower prices then before.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262686319567


 

 Thanks. I purchased two. Now I need the adapter.


----------



## Badas

Some more came up so I purchased another 2. 4 in total.


----------



## MIKELAP

Also got a pair of 596 at that price its a steal.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Also got a pair of 596 at that price its a steal.


 

 Yeah they are. Ordered and paid for the adapters from Glenn.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Yeah they are. Ordered and paid for the adapters from Glenn.


 
 And these are cheaper but do not have original boxes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/596-Tube-United-Rectifier-Replace-274B-5U4G-5R4-Adapter-sold-on-eBay-Woo-More/112177687950?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39798%26meid%3D46d0bb9aeb2f42368b3e7fa1109e389b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262686319567


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah they are. Ordered and paid for the adapters from Glenn.
> ...


 
 Those are the ones i bought good enough , $25 for a box is expensive anyways i buy them to use them not to put them away life is short you know lol.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> And these are cheaper but do not have original boxes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/596-Tube-United-Rectifier-Replace-274B-5U4G-5R4-Adapter-sold-on-eBay-Woo-More/112177687950?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39798%26meid%3D46d0bb9aeb2f42368b3e7fa1109e389b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262686319567


 

 I bought two of each. Two with boxes as per your first link. Then spotted those so I purchase two of those as well.
  
 Does anyone know if the Mighty 596 sits nicely in the WA22? Like this:
  

  
 or do they sit horribly like this:
  

  
 I suppose it's all to do with the adapter and luck of the draw.


----------



## sarora

I have both the WZ34 (17V drop) and WU4GB (50V drop) Copper Cap Rectifiers on the WA6SE (same idea for WA22) -- they both work fine after several hours of testing. The amplifier does not run hot. The WZ34 is, as expected, much crisper with less sag. WU4GB is looser. They both are very solid rectifiers and sound great.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I bought two of each. Two with boxes as per your first link. Then spotted those so I purchase two of those as well.
> 
> Does anyone know if the Mighty 596 sits nicely in the WA22? Like this:
> 
> ...


 

 Next maybe give the rk60 a try but they don't come up too often.


----------



## Robbefloff

badas said:


> This is the bomb. The best sound. Everything is better than the best tube rectifier I own (Takasuzuki 274B). Sweeter clearer treble which produced more detail. I heard things in my favorite tracks that I hadn't heard before. Alison Krauss's New Favorite. Her voice croaks on some high notes. Never heard that before. Noise level is extremely low. Just not there at all. I've always had one of my drive tubes (TS RP 6C8G) that on occasion got a little buzzy/hum sound. Not a bit of noise from it last night. I've noted some rectifiers work better with the other tubes in the amp. Solid State kept them all dead quiet. I would guess good clean voltage keeps the other tubes happy. Holographics and soundstage sounded as good as the TAK274B. Bass deeper and clearer. Speed was excellent. Not as quick as the other SS rectifiers but better than the TAK274B. I'm not too worried about speed. It sounded good enough and I don't listen to a lot of lightning fast music.
> Music in general had more snap and sounded far more natural.
> 
> With the amp on for three hours the amp was warm. No heat issues. Normal tube rectifier makes the amp hotter.
> ...


 
 Hello, longtime professional lurker and proud owner of the WA6 SE here  
  
 This got me interested - I've done some tube rolling, and found that the rectifier does more for sound than the driver tubes. So I have to ask - do you think that the driver tubes add enough of "tubeness" to justify not just switching to a SS amp altogether? Or is having the option of switching between tube and SS worth it? Im asking because I'm contemplating wether to go ham on tuberolling again, or selling the WA6 SE in favour for an SS amp. Headphones are HE500, so right now I'm kinda stuck to the more powerful driver tubes either way


----------



## Badas

robbefloff said:


> Hello, longtime professional lurker and proud owner of the WA6 SE here
> 
> This got me interested - I've done some tube rolling, and found that the rectifier does more for sound than the driver tubes. So I have to ask - do you think that the driver tubes add enough of "tubeness" to justify not just switching to a SS amp altogether? Or is having the option of switching between tube and SS worth it? Im asking because I'm contemplating wether to go ham on tuberolling again, or selling the WA6 SE in favour for an SS amp. Headphones are HE500, so right now I'm kinda stuck to the more powerful driver tubes either way


 

 My advice. Take it at face value. Sell the WA6-SE and buy a Violectric V281. It runs circles around my WA22 with the best tubes.


----------



## Seamaster

badas said:


> My advice. Take it at face value. Sell the WA6-SE and buy a Violectric V281. It runs circles around my WA22 with the best tubes.


 

 The problems with WA22 are lack transparency and attack.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> robbefloff said:
> 
> 
> > Hello, longtime professional lurker and proud owner of the WA6 SE here
> ...


 
 You forgot 3 important letters  IMO  lol


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> My advice. Take it at face value. Sell the WA6-SE and buy a Violectric V281. It runs circles around my WA22 with the best tubes.


 
  
 That is probably true but remember the wa6-se is only like 1190. where as the Violectric V281 is a min of 2300.+ it should sound way better. And I doubt it would run circles around the wa22 with the finest tubes no way dude , I'm sure it's a fine amp and hope you enjoy it ..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > My advice. Take it at face value. Sell the WA6-SE and buy a Violectric V281. It runs circles around my WA22 with the best tubes.
> ...


 
 I own both SS and tube amps and in my book both have something to offer


----------



## rosgr63

mikelap said:


> I own both SS and tube amps and in my book both have something to offer


 

 I am of the same opinion.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> That is probably true but remember the wa6-se is only like 1190. where as the Violectric V281 is a min of 2300.+ it should sound way better. And I doubt it would run circles around the wa22 with the finest tubes no way dude , I'm sure it's a fine amp and hope you enjoy it ..




This might be interesting to you all.

System: Bricasti DAC (around US$10K) > Custom 300B Glenn amp (definitely a better amp than the Woo WA5, possibly better than the WA234 as it doesn't use 6SN7 tubes with 300B's) > Violectric V281 > Focal Utopia.





In a shootout, two out of two guys believe that the V281 beats the 300B tube amp. We know the Glenn 300B beats the Woo WA5 as we had them side by side. WA5 kitted out with the very best tubes. Glenn 300B is possibly better than the WA234 also. 
Even with the V281 beating the tube amp the owner gives the Glenn a chance and buys the EML mesh 300B and the new production Tak 300B to see if tubes can get near the V281 or offer something different.

The result 2 months later?? Well lets say the tube amp is packed up in a box along with very expensive tubes. Owners words tubes can't get close and offers nothing of benefit. V281 beats tubes in ever sound quality. 

I've also installed the very best tubes I could find in my WA22 v's the V281. They are miles apart. WA22 with the best tubes is embarrassed by the V281.

Also what wasn't factored in the price difference between WA6-SE and V281 is the price of good to great tubes and the ongoing costs of those tubes. Put decent tubes into the WA6-SE and I would think the V281 would be the same price or cheaper. Then you get the advantages like no blown tubes or tube warm up etc. 

Tubes days as number one are over in my opinion. There is a reason many tube fans have moved. Some modern SS amps runs circles around them.

RIP tubes.


----------



## gibosi

I don't wish to take sides...
  
 But it is important to remember that there are no absolutes in audio. We all have different ears, different gear and different ideas in our brains about what is the "Best". So for one person, amp A is the best. And for another, amp B is the best. Again, for each of us, the "Best" is nothing more than an subjective opinion.
  
 So I suggest that we get back to discussing rectifiers here.... 
  
 Cheers


----------



## leftside

Yeah Badas mate, you've gone off the rails a bit lately.


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> I don't wish to take sides...
> 
> But it is important to remember that there are no absolutes in audio. We all have different ears, different gear and different ideas in our brains about what is the "Best". So for one person, amp A is the best. And for another, amp B is the best. Again, for each of us, the "Best" is nothing more than an subjective opinion.
> 
> ...


 
 Good suggestion


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Good suggestion




Yes it is. I agree. Stay on topic. I only posted my opinion as a member asked for advice.


----------



## San Raal

I don't post here much anymore due to personal issues with my hearing, but having read these posts in digest, I wanted to stress for those reading these posts to help select a purchase that YMMV and IMO - there are no absolutes in audio. Audition where you can.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Wil

Does anyone have any idea if the 5R4WGB is a drop in replacement for a 5AR4? 
  
 Using it for a line magnetic speaker amp. The amp has a soft start circuit if that helps.


----------



## gibosi

wil said:


> Does anyone have any idea if the 5R4WGB is a drop in replacement for a 5AR4?
> 
> Using it for a line magnetic speaker amp. The amp has a soft start circuit if that helps.


 
  
 Well, they are quite close. The 5AR4 heater draws 1.9A and the 5R4WGB draws 2.0A. The 5AR4 has a maximum DC output current of 250mA at 450V. The 5R4WGB has a maximum DC output current of 275mA at 500V. However, to be safe, I would encourage you to consult with the manufacturer of your amp.


----------



## Wil

Hi gibosi,
  
 Thanks for the reply. I gave it a shot anyway, it seems to be ok, with the slight exception that the transformer got alittle hotter as compared to using a 5AR4.
  
 Not entirely sure if there are any sonic benefits though. ( JAN Cetron 5R4WGB compared to a current production Sovtek 5AR4 ). 
  
 Might be time to really hunt down those NOS 5AR4s.


----------



## gibosi

wil said:


> Hi gibosi,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I gave it a shot anyway, it seems to be ok, with the slight exception that the transformer got alittle hotter as compared to using a 5AR4.
> 
> ...


 
  
 In the states, GE manufactured this tube, but I don't know if it was manufactured by any other American companies. Other than the crazy, expensive metal-base Philips 5AR4/GZ34, there are also three varieties of black-base 5AR4/GZ34 manufactured by European Philips. One was manufactured by Mullard's Blackburn factory with code "B", one was manufactured by Philips' Sittard, Holland factory with code "X" and one was manufactured by Belgium Mazda's Brussels factory with code "L". Maybe one of these will be more to your liking.


----------



## multiblitz

I plugged my new psvane 274b replica into my dac's output stage. I am touched. This thing is brand new and blows already a Mullard gz34 away. So much liquity, grainless, but very resolved transparencs...wow.

Thanks a lot guys for pointing me into that direction.

Quick question: If I wantto use them for my power amp and lets say parallel the anodes, would that mean that the resistance of thetransformer can go down from 75ohm to 75/2 Ohm ? So I could use a stiffer transformer / lower psu in total ?


----------



## abvolt

I gotta say I can see now why so many people enjoy the mighty 596 rectifier it's simply amazing sounding..enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I gotta say I can see now why so many people enjoy the mighty 596 rectifier it's simply amazing sounding..enjoy


 

 It Shure (pun intended) is. I can't decide if I like it or the TAK274B more. They are close. 596 is a better price tho.


----------



## Crashem

Lampizator owners have been raving about the KR 5U4G made special for Lampizator, KR 5U4G Lampizator Anniversary. They sold out quickly and it is unobtanium for a while now. Anyone try this in other kit? Just found a source that has a few left. There are some tube rich Lampizator users who have compared it to some of the best rectifiers out there. But haven't heard much about how they sound in other equipment as tube was made for special for Lampizator and the owners quickly snapped them up.

http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DHT_TUBES.html


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## gibosi

There appear to be two versions of the Brimar 5R4GY/CV717.
  

  
 The one of the left is older, October, 1956, whereas, the one of the right is newer, probably from the 1960's or later, judging by the halo getters. To my old ears, they sound substantially the same. Has anyone else compared these?


----------



## leftside

Does the one on the right have the double mica with ceramic spacers? I've heard good things about that tube and picked up a couple recently (haven't arrived yet). One branded Ultron and the other branded Haltron. Both with the double halo getters. I'm thinking they could actually be made by Brimar. I'll let you know what they sound like when they arrive.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, it is the one with the double mica and ceramic spacers. And I am quite sure that both of these 5R4GY were manufactured by Brimar, but at different times. And again, to my ears they sound substantially the same. But my ears are old and not all that good, so I wonder if others also find them to sound about the same...


----------



## abvolt

I have the same one on the left which sounds awesome sure would like to get my hands on the double mica tube guess I'll have to start looking for one..enjoy


----------



## auricgoldfinger

If anyone is interested, I have a GEC U52 brown base and a Marconi U52 black base for sale.  The GEC was originally owned by @Dubstep Girl and is an excellent tube.  When I bought the Marconi, it had never been used.  It comes with the original box.  I have <10 hours on it.  The Marconi is considered by many experts to be the best of the U52 family.
  
 PM me if you are a serious buyer.  Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

To the best of my knowledge, all U52 were manufactured in Hammersmith by the GEC / MO Valve Company. The label applied after the manufacturing process - GEC or Osram or Marconi - was more a function of marketing than anything else. That said, the Marconi label is often found on older tubes, and it may well be that older U52 sound different than newer ones. However, I do not know this to be true....


----------



## auricgoldfinger

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge, all U52 were manufactured in Hammersmith by the GEC / MO Valve Company. The label applied after the manufacturing process - GEC or Osram or Marconi - was more a function of marketing than anything else. That said, the Marconi label is often found on older tubes, and it may well be that older U52 sound different than newer ones. However, I do not know this to be true....


 
  
 GEC and Marconi were separate companies that were later merged.  The brands were made in different plants in different countries, and they have distinct sound qualities.  Their tubes were originally made for different end user markets.
  
 That is all factual information, not conjecture.


----------



## gibosi

From the Wikipedia article on Marconi-Osram Valve:
  
 "The company was founded in 1919, when the valve making interests of GEC (Osram) and the Marconi Company were combined."
  
 This was a good 20 years before the U52 was developed and manufactured at Hammersmith.


----------



## auricgoldfinger

gibosi said:


> From the Wikipedia article on Marconi-Osram Valve:
> 
> "The company was founded in 1919, when the valve making interests of GEC (Osram) and the Marconi Company were combined."
> 
> This was a good 20 years before the U52 was developed and manufactured at Hammersmith.


 
  
 The tubes were made in different plants in different countries.  They have different sound signatures.  Talk to dealers, or listen to them yourself.  If your system is good enough, you will hear differences.


----------



## Oskari

auricgoldfinger said:


> The tubes were made in different plants in different countries.  They have different sound signatures.  Talk to dealers, or listen to them yourself.  If your system is good enough, you will hear differences.




If your U52s are true UK U52s, then they clearly were not made "in different plants in different countries". On the other hand, if your Marconi is a, say, Canadian-made tube, perhaps you should make this known.


----------



## gibosi

auricgoldfinger said:


> The tubes were made in different plants in different countries.  They have different sound signatures.  Talk to dealers, or listen to them yourself.  If your system is good enough, you will hear differences.


 
  
 How about some pictures?


----------



## auricgoldfinger

I stand corrected regarding the country of manufacture.  I got the Marconi out of storage and it is clearly marked as made in England.  My apologies to all.
  
 That said, the tube have different sound signatures.  You can ascribe it to whatever reason you choose...I really don't care.  If your system is good enough, you will hear the difference.  If your system is not sufficiently transparent, the tubes may sound indistinguishable to you.


----------



## gibosi

auricgoldfinger said:


> I stand corrected regarding the country of manufacture.  I got the Marconi out of storage and it is clearly marked as made in England.  My apologies to all.
> 
> That said, the tube have different sound signatures.  You can ascribe it to whatever reason you choose...I really don't care.  If your system is good enough, you will hear the difference.  If your system is not sufficiently transparent, the tubes may sound indistinguishable to you.


 
  
 Again, how about some pictures?
  
 It is certainly possible that this tube was manufactured by another British company and relabeled as a Marconi U52. This was common practice back in the day. With good pictures, the construction will reveal which company manufactured the tube and the approximate date of manufacture.


----------



## Seamaster

I think there are brown base and black base U52, i have one of each. they have different gaters


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> I think there are brown base and black base U52, i have one of each. they have different gaters


 
  
 Usually, black bases are older than brown bases. Do the two that you own sound different?


----------



## neoluddite

wow.. super duper.. thank you!


----------



## gibosi

auricgoldfinger said:


> If anyone is interested, I have a GEC U52 brown base and a Marconi U52 black base for sale.  The GEC was originally owned by @Dubstep Girl and is an excellent tube.  When I bought the Marconi, it had never been used.  It comes with the original box.  I have <10 hours on it.  The Marconi is considered by many experts to be the best of the U52 family.
> 
> PM me if you are a serious buyer.  Thanks.


 
  
 If someone here buys the Marconi, I hope you will post a picture of it. I am very curious to know what it is.


----------



## Seamaster

gibosi said:


> Usually, black bases are older than brown bases. Do the two that you own sound different?




I have not tried yet, but will do in the ear future. The vendor told me there is no different, but i would think there is possible tonal difference that can only be heard with a good headphone setup. I test my pre straight from RCA output with a headphone adapter.


----------



## gibosi

seamaster said:


> I have not tried yet, but will do in the ear future. The vendor told me there is no different, but i would think there is possible tonal difference that can only be heard with a good headphone setup. I test my pre straight from RCA output with a headphone adapter.


 
  
 Right. It is reasonable to think that tubes manufactured at different times will sound different, even if manufactured in the same factory. After all, new materials and technologies, as well as feed back from the field, often resulted in assembly line changes over time. But not all assembly changes are audible. For example, replacing a square getter with a halo getter. So a U52 manufactured in 1950 may or may not sound different than one manufactured in 1965.


----------



## spyder1

What is a sign that a Rectifier Tube is near it's end of life? I had a RCA 5U4G vacuum tube installed in my WA6, and after 13 months, the glass turned dark and sooty. Is this a sign this Rectifier Tube is at it end of life? Will Rectifier Tube failure cause damage to the WA6? I rolled a NOS Mullard GZ34 for better SQ.


----------



## 3083joe

gibosi said:


> There appear to be two versions of the Brimar 5R4GY/CV717.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I tried them both back in the wa22 as you said they sounded pretty much identical.


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> I tried them both back in the wa22 as you said they sounded pretty much identical.


 
  
 I also have both types of these tubes and can't tell you much if any differences in sq with them sorry no help..enjoy anyway, oh they both sound great by the way.


----------



## gibosi

spyder1 said:


> What is a sign that a Rectifier Tube is near it's end of life? I had a RCA 5U4G vacuum tube installed in my WA6, and after 13 months, the glass turned dark and sooty. Is this a sign this Rectifier Tube is at it end of life? Will Rectifier Tube failure cause damage to the WA6? I rolled a NOS Mullard GZ34 for better SQ.


 
  
 In my experience, dark and sooty is normal, and nothing to be concerned about. So no, I don't believe that it is a sign that the tube is nearing the end.
  
 In some cases, when a rectifier is near the end, you will notice a difference in the sq, likely because the rectifier can no longer provide adequate DC current to run the amp properly. But in others, the rectifier will suddenly fail, usually at startup. And assuming the power supply for your WA6 is protected by a fuse, typically that fuse will blow.
  
 I have had a number of rectifiers fail upon startup, and as a result, I keep a good supply of fuses on hand.


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> spyder1 said:
> 
> 
> > What is a sign that a Rectifier Tube is near it's end of life? I had a RCA 5U4G vacuum tube installed in my WA6, and after 13 months, the glass turned dark and sooty. Is this a sign this Rectifier Tube is at it end of life? Will Rectifier Tube failure cause damage to the WA6? I rolled a NOS Mullard GZ34 for better SQ.
> ...


 
 I had a Sophia princess 274B that at one point got very bright so much so that i stopped using it .


----------



## leftside

As promised, here are some pics of the two 5R4GY's with double ceramic spacers that I picked up. Even though they are labeled Ultron and Haltron, I think they are Brimar. Both sound great.


----------



## auricgoldfinger

2359glenn said:


> Most people don't know it the 422A really needs a adapter to sound it's best pins 2 & 8 are reversed compared to other
> rectifiers. Most amps take the DC off pin 8 the 422 has the cathode hooked to pin2. So the DC has to go through the heater
> or the 5 volt filament winding of the power transformer.


 
  
 Where can I find an adapter?


----------



## Contrails

@auricgoldfinger, you can always ask 2359Glenn.


----------



## Bigsecret

auricgoldfinger said:


> Where can I find an adapter?


 

 I asked Donald North about this a while back. His reponse was that the adapter won't work properly on the Stratus. According to Donald: "many amps take the high voltage DC output from pin 8 to make it compatible with indirectly heated rectifiers like the 5AR4, GZ37, etc. I do not do this: I take the high voltage from a center tap of the 5V rectifier filament winding, which is the preferred way to do it with directly heated rectifiers. Plugging in the 422A either as-is or through the adapter will still have a 2.5V loss."
  
 The Stratus can be rewired to accommodate the 422A but then wouldn't be correct for other tubes. I have heard others using the 422A but it is with this limitation.


----------



## jhljhl

auricgoldfinger said:


> Where can I find an adapter?


 

 There was a blacker background using the Glenn adapter on the WA22.  The WE 274a and 274b is superior though.


----------



## auricgoldfinger

bigsecret said:


> I asked Donald North about this a while back. His reponse was that the adapter won't work properly on the Stratus. According to Donald: "many amps take the high voltage DC output from pin 8 to make it compatible with indirectly heated rectifiers like the 5AR4, GZ37, etc. I do not do this: I take the high voltage from a center tap of the 5V rectifier filament winding, which is the preferred way to do it with directly heated rectifiers. Plugging in the 422A either as-is or through the adapter will still have a 2.5V loss."
> 
> The Stratus can be rewired to accommodate the 422A but then wouldn't be correct for other tubes. I have heard others using the 422A but it is with this limitation.


 
  
 Thanks for sharing the information from Donald. I have been using the 422a without any issues.  My interest in an adapter was to determine if I could further improve on the already amazing sound of the 422a. 
  
 Glenn explained to me by PM that his adapter won't work with the Stratus.  Furthermore, in his opinion, the tube is good enough as is.  I agree.


----------



## auricgoldfinger

jhljhl said:


> There was a blacker background using the Glenn adapter on the WA22.  The WE 274a and 274b is superior though.


 
  
 I go back and forth between the 422a and WE 274b on my Stratus.  Both are excellent tubes.  They are far and away my 2 favorite rectifiers.


----------



## jhljhl

auricgoldfinger said:


> I go back and forth between the 422a and WE 274b on my Stratus.  Both are excellent tubes.  They are far and away my 2 favorite rectifiers.


 

 I agree but the WE 274 is richer and has more depth in the WA5LE.


----------



## auricgoldfinger

jhljhl said:


> I agree but the WE 274 is richer and has more depth in the WA5LE.


 
  
 Have you ever heard a Takatsuki TA-274B?


----------



## attmci (Feb 17, 2018)

Have three black base GZ34 in my collection.

Philips Miniwatt: GZ34, f31 X9C (X= Sittard; 9: 1959, C: March) (This GZ34 is the f31 series,  early in the GZ34 series after the metal base GZ34 / 5AR4)

Tungsram GZ34, B2D1 (B = Mullard Blackburn, U.K.; 2: 1962?; D: April, 1: 1st week)

IEC Mullard, GZ34/5AR4 f32 B6J1 (B = Mullard Blackburn, U.K.; 6: 1966?; J: Oct.; 1: 1st week)

Tungsram and IEC Mullard are identical in structures. Philips Miniwatt has slight different plate.


----------



## Seamaster

N


gibosi said:


> Right. It is reasonable to think that tubes manufactured at different times will sound different, even if manufactured in the same factory. After all, new materials and technologies, as well as feed back from the field, often resulted in assembly line changes over time. But not all assembly changes are audible. For example, replacing a square getter with a halo getter. So a U52 manufactured in 1950 may or may not sound different than one manufactured in 1965.


 

Now, I have both GEC brown and black base U52, to my surprise, I like the black base better, differences are there, but unless AB them, it is very hard to tell.


----------



## abvolt

attmci said:


> Have three black base GZ34 in my collection.
> 
> Philips Miniwatt: GZ34, f31 X9C (X= Sittard; 9: 1959, C: March) (This GZ34 is the f31 series, the first in the GZ34 series after the metal base GZ34 / 5AR4)
> 
> ...



Very cool I also have 2 mullard gz34's I enjoy them much, What amp are you using them in ?..enjoy


----------



## attmci (Feb 9, 2018)

abvolt said:


> Very cool I also have 2 mullard gz34's I enjoy them much, What amp are you using them in ?..enjoy


It can be used in all kinds of amps. 

Attached is a short video of more gz34.

And the *The GZ34 Gallery:

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo GZ34/GZ34.htm*


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hi Guys,

I've recently gotten the WA33 EE, and have been doing some tube research. 

I'm looking at these options:

Power Tubes: RCA or KR HP
Rectifier : Elrog, KR, Takatsuki, or WE274B (if i can find one)
Drivers: RCA, Electro Harmonic, Wester Electric

Can anyone shed some light on this or share whatever opinions / experience they may have.
Eventually i'll get a few different kits to try, but im looking at what should be my first jump up from stock.

Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster (Feb 13, 2018)

U52 or GZ37 fat bottle are the best and accessible IMO, never had WE274B. EML 5U4G is nice but lacks a little bit of NOS magic


----------



## spyder1 (Feb 13, 2018)

matthewhypolite said:


> I've recently gotten the WA33 EE, and have been doing some tube research.



The Russian NOS 5U3C is an excellent Rectifier tube! IMO. I purchased 4 60's era 5U3C's for use in my WA6 in years to come. Lampizator uses them in all its equipment designs. If you can find Russian NOS equivalents, for the WA33, they would be a great choice. IMO.

**Note: I use Voskhod 6N23P tubes w/ adapters in my WA6.


----------



## alvin sawdust

I am inclined to agree. The Winged C black plate rectifiers are a great value and the grey plates aren't too far behind either.


----------



## attmci (Feb 17, 2018)

Philips Miniwatt: GZ34, f31 X9C (X= Sittard; 9: 1959, C: March) (This GZ34 is the f31 series, early in the GZ34 series after the metal base GZ34 / 5AR4)

This is a very nice tube. We'll see how it competes with a much more expensive metal-base one.


----------



## gibosi

Actually, the first black base version of the GZ34 was f30. This one was manufactured in November, 1957.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Actually, the first black base version of the GZ34 was f30. This one was manufactured in November, 1957.


True. Changes made.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

I recently acquired the mullard gz34 metal base 1957 i have been critically listening to it for the past
few days and was generally comparing it to the fat base gz34 .
in comparison i thought the metal base sounded cold and did not have that magic warmth that the
fat black base has , dynamics are amazing on the metal base but just thought it was missing something
couldn't quite put my finger on it but all i can say is that i prefer the fat black base over the metal base 
it just did not hit the sweet spot for me and i could not see what all the hype is about , the metal base
is over rated imho.


----------



## gibosi

If you don't know what else to do with that crummy metal-base GZ34, you can send it to me.


----------



## attmci

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> I recently acquired the mullard gz34 metal base 1957 i have been critically listening to it for the past
> few days and was generally comparing it to the fat base gz34 .
> in comparison i thought the metal base sounded cold and did not have that magic warmth that the
> fat black base has , dynamics are amazing on the metal base but just thought it was missing something
> ...


Leave it in the amp. Let it "warm up" for 100 hrs. It's a very nice "small" tube.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Feb 28, 2018)

attmci said:


> Leave it in the amp. Let it "warm up" for 100 hrs. It's a very nice "small" tube.


as i said in an earlier post the metal base tube i have has not been used for many years at least 20 years but prior to that do not
know how long it was used for , surely it does not need breaking in again or does it , i thought only a few hours on it would of
done the trick , what do you think guys shall i give it another 100 or so hours before i decide to sell it .


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

gibosi said:


> If you don't know what else to do with that crummy metal-base GZ34, you can send it to me.


i will send it first class lol


----------



## gibosi

In general, Philip's Holland-made rectifiers (and double triodes) are not as warm as those manufactured by British Mullard, which I assume is the source of your fat base gz34. Since you seem to prefer the Mullard sound, I would encourage you to try the GZ32, GZ33 and GZ37. These were all manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory and have a similar warm tone. And you might also like the Cossor 53KU / CV378, sometimes called a "Fat GZ37", which is also a bit warmer.


----------



## Autostart

In my experience I haven't had a rectifier changed the sonic performance much if at all. Granted I've only tried a few select 5U4G, 5U4GB and 5Z4. Am I missing something or is there a rectifier that is highly recommended?


----------



## gibosi

Autostart said:


> In my experience I haven't had a rectifier changed the sonic performance much if at all. Granted I've only tried a few select 5U4G, 5U4GB and 5Z4. Am I missing something or is there a rectifier that is highly recommended?



Some amps are more revealing of the sonic differences in rectifiers than others. I have a Glenn OTL, and it is very revealing.

That said, I am assuming your 5U4G, 5U4GB and 5Z4 are American-made. If so, you might want to try some of the European rectifiers, such as Mullard, GEC, Cossor, Brimar and Philips, as they sound quite different to my ears.


----------



## Autostart

I'm using a Woo WA22 for an amp and all put one have been an made in USA. The 5Z4 is a Brimar which like you said to sound a bit warmer and the most change out of all.


----------



## abvolt

You should give a Brimar CV1863 (5Z4GY) from Langrex.com or their ebay store it's only about 35. I find it one of my favorites. For me different rectifiers make a very big impact on my music..enjoy


----------



## Autostart

abvolt said:


> You should give a Brimar CV1863 (5Z4GY) from Langrex.com or their ebay store it's only about 35. I find it one of my favorites. For me different rectifiers make a very big impact on my music..enjoy



I will check when I get home.but I think that's what I have.


----------



## Autostart

Yep!


----------



## abvolt

Cool I would also like to suggest trying some of the Mullards like GZ30,32,33,34,37 all of them have very good sq, the 33 & 37 look much alike but do sound different. 6106's are also nice, none are real spendy, since you now own a wa22 their are a lot of tube rolling options that's why I got my wa22 I find rolling enjoyable and the combo's one can make is exceedingly large..have fun


----------



## Autostart

abvolt said:


> Cool I would also like to suggest trying some of the Mullards like GZ30,32,33,34,37 all of them have very good sq, the 33 & 37 look much alike but do sound different. 6106's are also nice, none are real spendy, since you now own a wa22 their are a lot of tube rolling options that's why I got my wa22 I find rolling enjoyable and the combo's one can make is exceedingly large..have fun



Thank you for the suggestions. Much appreciated.


----------



## attmci (Feb 28, 2018)

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> as i said in an earlier post the metal base tube i have has not been used for many years at least 20 years but prior to that do not
> know how long it was used for , surely it does not need breaking in again or does it , i thought only a few hours on it would of
> done the trick , what do you think guys shall i give it another 100 or so hours before i decide to sell it .



Well, a $2-300 tube won't change a $2000 amp to a super duper one.

There a small amount of gas built up in the tube during those 20 some years storage time. Burn-in may help to get rid of the trace-level gas inside the tube. But it won't dramatically change the sound. Feel free to sell it to Ken. He need one. LOL


----------



## attmci

Autostart said:


> Yep!


This is a good one. But they double the price of the tube after some head-fiers purchased dozens of pairs.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Mar 1, 2018)

gibosi said:


> In general, Philip's Holland-made rectifiers (and double triodes) are not as warm as those manufactured by British Mullard, which I assume is the source of your fat base gz34. Since you seem to prefer the Mullard sound, I would encourage you to try the GZ32, GZ33 and GZ37. These were all manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory and have a similar warm tone. And you might also like the Cossor 53KU / CV378, sometimes called a "Fat GZ37", which is also a bit warmer.


I also purchased to gz32 and tried it for the first time yesterday and have to say it is a lot warmer than the Holland gz34 which is more to my liking I have also ordered the gz37 fat bottle 
which I heard great things about , gz34 metal base already sold , man these metal base sells quick .
Great rectifier tho just not too my liking .
Thanks for your feedback guys much appreciated.


----------



## Feedbacker

Not sure if anyone can help me, but I’m confused by the code on my Mullard GZ32  it doesn’t seem to conform with any of the references I’ve found anywhere...

1358 D 9

Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## gibosi (May 8, 2018)

Feedbacker said:


> Not sure if anyone can help me, but I’m confused by the code on my Mullard GZ32  it doesn’t seem to conform with any of the references I’ve found anywhere...
> 
> 1358 D 9
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?



My best guess... According to The National Valve Museum, the GZ32 was first introduced in 1946.

http://www.r-type.org/inx/inx1946.htm

However, Mullard did not adopt the Philips manufacturing code system until about 1955. So tubes manufactured prior to the switch over used an older Mullard production code. I have yet to find the key to this code, but it appears that "1358" = GZ32 and "D" = Blackburn. And just maybe, "9" = 1949?


----------



## Oskari

Feedbacker said:


> Not sure if anyone can help me, but I’m confused by the code on my Mullard GZ32 it doesn’t seem to conform with any of the references I’ve found anywhere...
> 
> 1358 D 9
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


That's an earlier type Mullard code. It would seem to fit this system:


Oskari said:


> Those suggest to me that we are looking at an MY-format date code where A = Jan and L = Dec, and years range from 1948 to 1954. Thus A0 = Jan 1950.


1358 = GZ32. D = April. 9 = 1949. I'm not 100% sure about that but it kind of works…


----------



## gibosi (May 8, 2018)

And again, we just don't know for sure how to interpret the old Mullard code.... For example, I have a Mullard ECC31. The code reads: "1029.1 1MV"     ????


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> And again, we just don't know for sure how to interpret the old Mullard code.... For example, I have a Mullard ECC31. The code reads: "1029.1 1MV"     ????


Yep. There must be (at least) two kinds of these older codes. This one baffles me as well.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, it does seem that the Mullard might have used more than one code over the years before adopting the Philips code. I have three old Mullard FW4/500. And the codes read "54 BZ", "54 BY" and "54 BH".  Again, I can surmise that "54" = FW4/500, but I have no idea what the letters mean....

And since the FW4/500 is a rectifier, similar to the 5U4G, but with a 4-volt heater instead of 5, it isn't too far off topic to post a picture of one of these old beauties.


----------



## Feedbacker

gibosi said:


> My best guess... According to The National Valve Museum, the GZ32 was first introduced in 1946.
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/inx/inx1946.htm
> 
> However, Mullard did not adopt the Philips manufacturing code system until about 1955. So tubes manufactured prior to the switch over used an older Mullard production code. I have yet to find the key to this code, but it appears that "1358" = GZ32 and "D" = Blackburn. And just maybe, "9" = 1949?



Thanks - that's really interesting. It's a real puzzle to work out these codes, innit?!!!


----------



## Feedbacker

Oskari said:


> That's an earlier type Mullard code. It would seem to fit this system:
> 
> 1358 = GZ32. D = April. 9 = 1949. I'm not 100% sure about that but it kind of works…



It's the best theory I've heard yet!


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Yes, it does seem that the Mullard might have used more than one code over the years before adopting the Philips code. I have three old Mullard FW4/500. And the codes read "54 BZ", "54 BY" and "54 BH". Again, I can surmise that "54" = FW4/500, but I have no idea what the letters mean....


Is that three older codes now?


----------



## wisnon

I have to say that the Kron RK 5u4g is a killer rectifier. Outside of the uber expensive Takatsuki and vintage Western Electric, this for me is the TOP recti out there. I use it in a Lampizator Dac.


----------



## wisnon

Tube rolling report here where RK 5u4g ruled supreme!
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...tube-rolling-review-thread.26478/#post-538609


----------



## wisnon

Crashem said:


> Lampizator owners have been raving about the KR 5U4G made special for Lampizator, KR 5U4G Lampizator Anniversary. They sold out quickly and it is unobtanium for a while now. Anyone try this in other kit? Just found a source that has a few left. There are some tube rich Lampizator users who have compared it to some of the best rectifiers out there. But haven't heard much about how they sound in other equipment as tube was made for special for Lampizator and the owners quickly snapped them up.
> 
> http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DHT_TUBES.html


======================================================

After chasing and reading many of the tube rolling reports bunch of "crazy" guys 

 in form of @wisnon, @christoph, David and myself decided to do a quite big session of tube rolling of both rectifier and DHT tubes used in Lampi DACs.
As we had on hand three DACs (actually even 5) of top Lampi machines we also decided to find a best tube match per specific DAC model.
Of course some might say, you did not try this, you did not try that, but we tried tubes which are 'hot picks" at the moment and the tubes we managed to get.
In order for session to be as relevant as possible one by one DAC was at the main stage while other two were serving as tube heating stations (quite expensive ones). 


4 pair of ears were deployed at all time and results were consensus of all of us. In a nutshell these are the results and we hope those might serve to all Lampi users or hopefully future ones as kind of general instruction into which direction you might go to save you the time and money if you are not able to acquire tubes for home testing.
Of course everything, as always, is system and personal liking dependable.

PACIFIC DAC:

1) Ayon 5u4g, Eml Mesh 45 - Could have a bit more punch, rest OK, airy
2) Ayon 5u4g, RK 300b - more upper bass, full bodied, slightly colored in a positive way, more focus, bigger stage, dryer
3) Ayon 5u4g, KR PX25 - Air, weight, ideal tubey sound, lots of air, bloom, decay
4) Ayon 5u4g, KR 242 - more FW sounding, less tubey, less layered depth, very transparent, faster
5) Ayon 5u4g, EML Mesh 45 Ann Globe - Soft, tubey, less substance, laid back on the other hand very airy, not enough meat. Norm preferred it to 242 in vocals.
6) RK 5u4g, EML Mesh 45 Ann Globe - Crispier, cleaner, bigger stage, livelier, more body but still lacking substance and body
7) RK 5u4g, 101d - small stage, not the same league as the other ones
8) RK 5u4g, KR 242 - No major objection, fast, transparent, layering, great staging, more dynamic with this recti...noticeably better than Ayon recti
9) RK 5u4g, KR PX25 - Spaciousness, great overall performer, perfect match with RK recti, huge stage. Top combo in Pacific!
10) KR 5u4g white ceramic base, KR PX25 - very close as above, just maybe a bit less dynamic but all very close. Upon going back to RK recti it is better combo for sure!
11) RK 5u4g, RK 300b - A lot better than with Ayon, we find this combo close to PX25 combo, seems like more meat to PX25, combines virtues of 242 and PX25.

Top pic for PACIFIC was KR PX25 with RK 5u4g.

Golden Gate 1:

1) KR 5u4g white ceramic base, KR242 - Chris favourite combination in his GG. Vs. PAC different presentation type, more tubey sound, less detailed than PAC, less stage high, more treble with PAC.
2) RK 5u4g, KR242 - again massive difference with RK recti - very detailed, open sound. Big in all directions.
3) RK 5u4g, RK300b - excellent combination but 242 is doing things in this DAC just better in all terms - more punch, more resolution, staging...
4) RK 5u4g, KR PX25 - again great combo, more tubey sounding but still great details, punch, warm, very 3D and palpable
5) RK 5u4g, Elrog 300b - we like it, punch, detail, great vocals, overall great performer
6) RK 5u4g, EML Mesh 45 Globe Ann - not a great match for PAC but in GG a nice match. Good weight, spaciousness. Not enough weight with classical.

Consensus is that RK recti and KR PX25 works best.

Golden Gate 2.5:

1) RK 5u4g, KR242 - Fantastic speed, decay, bloom, tonality. Mellowness is just right, more treble extension.
2) RK 5u4g, KR PX25 - keeping the main character from 242 but adding additional tube sweetness in positive sense. Very natural sounding. Awesome instrument color of cello, brass,...
3) RK 5u4g, RK 300b - Very transparent, huge stage, detailed, punchy without losing control.

Could not draw a conclusion which tube was the favourite as they all performed exceptional but depending on the music 242 and PX25 stand out. With complex music 242 creates less congestion and PX25 creates more magic with 'easier music'.

DAC comparison:
Pacific is the most transparent & dynamic making several more tube choices play on exceptional level.
GG1 warmer sounding or tubey sounding doing everything right where 242 is the right choice giving additional kick and dynamic. GG2.5 is a perfect/great blend of both directions being dynamic and transparent but not lacking any tube magic.

Equipment used:
Speakers - hOrns Universum III
Amp - KR Kronzilla
Preamp - Aries Cerat Incito
Server - LampizatOr Superkomputer
DAC: LampizatOr Pacific SE, Golden Gate 2.5 SE, Golden Gate 1 SE

I would like to thank Chris for his always great hospitality!!!!


----------



## abvolt

Here's a very nice sounding rectifier I found on ebay (35.) it's a large bottle mullard gz 30 I have 2 of the small bottle gz 30's, this is an excellent sounding rectifier much different then the small bottle if you've not heard one it's well worth a try. It's also the first large bottle I've seen didn't know mullard made them even..


----------



## gibosi

I'd love to be able to try a GZ30. However, my Glenn OTL requires a rectifier that can provide at least 250ma. Since the GZ30 can provide at most 125ma, it would likely die a quick death if I tried to use it... 

I would suggest that you make sure it is compatible with your amp before purchasing one...


----------



## attmci (Jan 8, 2019)

abvolt said:


> Here's a very nice sounding rectifier I found on ebay (35.) it's a large bottle mullard gz 30 I have 2 of the small bottle gz 30's, this is an excellent sounding rectifier much different then the small bottle if you've not heard one it's well worth a try. It's also the first large bottle I've seen didn't know mullard made them even..


Looks very nice.

I have a Brimar GZ30. Looks similar, but not sure if they are the same tube.

I am trying a new DAC, now almost every tube sounds different than before in the same amp (as yours). 

Is this the small bottle? The price is very reasonable. Worth to try?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264098034254

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264115303656


----------



## attmci (Jan 12, 2019)

gibosi said:


> I'd love to be able to try a GZ30. However, my Glenn OTL requires a rectifier that can provide at least 250ma. Since the GZ30 can provide at most 125ma, it would likely die a quick death if I tried to use it...
> 
> I would suggest that you make sure it is compatible with your amp before purchasing one...



it is generally agreed that the different v-drop can affect the tone.


----------



## alvin sawdust

^^ Thanks, very helpful


----------



## attmci

alvin sawdust said:


> ^^ Thanks, very helpful


Thanks.

BTW, the Dubstep Girl's review is based on a very old WA22. LOL


----------



## gibosi

In my experience with a Glenn OTL, I do not find v-drop to be a useful predictor of a rectifier's sound.  Rather, I find that each factory's unique microphonic signature is much more useful as a predictor of a rectifier's sound. For example, to my ears, GZ32, GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37, all manufactured by Mullard in their Blackburn factory, sound quite similar, even though the v-drop is significantly different for each. On the other hand, a GZ34 manufactured in Blackburn sounds quite different than one manufactured in Bruxelles, even though both were designed by Philips, look about the same and have the same v-drop.

In general, tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies sound different. Tubes manufactured in the same factory by the same company sound similar.


----------



## attmci (Jan 12, 2019)

gibosi said:


> In my experience with a Glenn OTL, I do not find v-drop to be a useful predictor of a rectifier's sound.  Rather, I find that each factory's unique microphonic signature is much more useful as a predictor of a rectifier's sound. For example, to my ears, GZ32, GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37, all manufactured by Mullard in their Blackburn factory, sound quite similar, even though the v-drop is significantly different for each. On the other hand, a GZ34 manufactured in Blackburn sounds quite different than one manufactured in Bruxelles, even though both were designed by Philips, look about the same and have the same v-drop.
> 
> In general, tubes manufactured in different factories by different companies sound different. Tubes manufactured in the same factory by the same company sound similar.


Ken, I have to agree with you regarding the tube structures.

Otherwise, you will ask me if I could tell the _difference_ in _sound_ between a Chinese 274B tube and a old WE one. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...3:g:LRMAAOSwnjZcM3mo:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274B-5AR4-...GDTYcScfDtcefVPZ/xDKyX6ZdPqgU=&frcectupt=true


----------



## Dubstep Girl

greetings!


----------



## gibosi

Dubstep Girl said:


> greetings!



Haven't seen you here in ages! Welcome back!


----------



## cddc

Holy...another great thread to follow, tho no tube rectifiers yet


----------



## adamaley

cddc said:


> Holy...another great thread to follow, tho no tube rectifiers yet



Welcome to a treasure trove of information. I've been in and out of here since my days with a DNA Srtatus but I've read this entire thread from beginning to end this week since I'm looking for rectifiers for a Lampi Golden Gate. I currently have a Take 274B, RK5U4G, and USAF 596- out of which I prefer the 596. I'm looking to receive an RK60 and a Brimar 5z4gy soon and scouring the web for a U52 all thanks to this thread.


----------



## Monsterzero

adamaley said:


> Welcome to a treasure trove of information. I've been in and out of here since my days with a DNA Srtatus but I've read this entire thread from beginning to end this week since I'm looking for rectifiers for a Lampi Golden Gate. I currently have a Take 274B, RK5U4G, and USAF 596- out of which I prefer the 596. I'm looking to receive an RK60 and a Brimar 5z4gy soon and scouring the web for a U52 all thanks to this thread.


 Let me know how the U52 sounds in the GG. I may want to try it in the TRP,seeing as how I apparently cant use my 4v version it.


----------



## adamaley

I'll keep you posted. Trying to find a good version. What should I be looking out for? A cup getter or pan getter? Brown /black base?


----------



## Monsterzero (Sep 7, 2019)

adamaley said:


> I'll keep you posted. Trying to find a good version. What should I be looking out for? A cup getter or pan getter? Brown /black base?


 That question would be best answered by @gibosi or @Skylab


----------



## leftside (Sep 7, 2019)

adamaley said:


> I'll keep you posted. Trying to find a good version. What should I be looking out for? A cup getter or pan getter? Brown /black base?


They are all very well made. The earlier versions have black plates, black base with cup or pan getter, so will be more expensive. Will also be labelled (stickered) GEC, Osram, Marconi, Gecovalve or MWT.


----------



## leftside

Can anyone help me identify this tube? It's larger than the GEC tubes I just posted, and has a side saucer getter:


----------



## MasonStorm

That's a fat-bottle GZ37; I have one too.  I can't hear any difference yet between this one (black base, black plates) and the brown-based ones with the grey plates.


----------



## gibosi

adamaley said:


> I'll keep you posted. Trying to find a good version. What should I be looking out for? A cup getter or pan getter? Brown /black base?



To answer your second question. I have a number of these and to my ears they all sound the same. So yes, the older tubes, with cup or pan getters and black bases tend to be more expensive, so I encourage you to grab the cheapest one you can find, regardless.


----------



## gibosi

MasonStorm said:


> That's a fat-bottle GZ37; I have one too.  I can't hear any difference yet between this one (black base, black plates) and the brown-based ones with the grey plates.



Yes, it is often called a "fat-bottle GZ37" but more accurately, it is a Cossor 52KU. And I agree. I can't hear any difference between the different builds.


----------



## leftside

Yes indeed a Cossor 53KU. It's exactly the same construction as another black base Cossor 53KU I have, but this latter one has the regular "Cossor 53KU" white lettering on the tube. Beautiful rectifiers.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> They are all very well made. The earlier versions have black plates, black base with cup or pan getter, so will be more expensive. Will also be labelled (stickered) GEC, Osram, Marconi, Gecovalve or MWT.



Five U52 !!! I only have one GEC U52.


----------



## leftside

UntilThen said:


> Five U52 !!! I only have one GEC U52.


You only need one  The version I actually use is a well used military version with military print and no stickers. Collecting the 5 different stickers is a "collectors disease" (and yes I'm aware there are variations on all of those stickers). And of course black plates, grey plates, different getters, different factories, etc...


----------



## JazzVinyl

But...UT does not roll anymore!


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> You only need one  The version I actually use is a well used military version with military print and no stickers. Collecting the 5 different stickers is a "collectors disease" (and yes I'm aware there are variations on all of those stickers). And of course black plates, grey plates, different getters, different factories, etc...



Indeed I only need one but it's remarkable you managed to collect all different stickers of the U52. It's a good hobby I reckon.


----------



## UntilThen

JazzVinyl said:


> But...UT does not roll anymore!



True my tube rolling days are coming to an end but rectifiers are different.  It's something new to me and I can see myself experimenting with a few. Already have GEC U52, Mullard GZ34 and Cossor 53KU.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> True my tube rolling days are coming to an end but rectifiers are different.  It's something new to me and I can see myself experimenting with a few. Already have GEC U52, Mullard GZ34 and Cossor 53KU.


 Once you hear the U52,im guessing you will be using the GZ34 to collect dust. Havent heard the 53KU yet,so let me know how they compare.


----------



## UntilThen

My GZ34 is from Mullard and made in the Blackburn factory UK. U52 sounded much better. The texture, clarity and sweetness are a step up. However the Sittard GZ34 might be different. Might try to get one of those, short of getting a GZ34 metal base. It's going to cost !!! I'll let you know how the Cossor 53KU compares.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> My GZ34 is from Mullard and made in the Blackburn factory UK. U52 sounded much better. The texture, clarity and sweetness are a step up. However the Sittard GZ34 might be different. Might try to get one of those, short of getting a GZ34 metal base. It's going to cost !!! I'll let you know how the Cossor 53KU compares.


 May want to ask Ken about the differences between the various GZ34. He saved me some $.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> May want to ask Ken about the differences between the various GZ34. He saved me some $.



I have. I learn all about rectifiers from Ken, especially the good ones. I even consulted him before I bid on the Cossor 53ku because it was branded Emitron and I haven't heard that brand before.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> I have. I learn all about rectifiers from Ken, especially the good ones. I even consulted him before I bid on the Cossor 53ku because it was branded Emitron and I haven't heard that brand before.


 Yeah I consulted with him on that exact tube too.  Glad one of us got it.


----------



## UntilThen

Make sense for me to buy it as the seller is from Australia. Postage will be much much cheaper.


----------



## MasonStorm

I was looking at the specs for these 53KU rectifiers.  This PDF http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/gz37.pdf raises a new question.  Do Class A Woo amplifiers (I'm using the WA-234) have a choke input?  If so, it seems the output current goes up to 350 mA (vs. 250 mA with a capacitor input).


----------



## gibosi

The GZ37 was manufactured by Mullard. The 53KU was manufactured by Cossor. They are similar but not identical. That said, they are similar enough that when Cossor stopped manufacturing the 53KU in the early 1950's the Mullard was considered to be a suitable substitute by the military. Hence you will see both labeled with military designation CV378.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a comprehensive data sheet for the Cossor. And further, I have no experience with Woo amps so I cannot comment on your specific question regarding the WA234.


----------



## jonno41

Dubstep Girl said:


> *Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison!*​                I have been wanting to create this thread for quite some time now, since I often receive PM's and questions asking for advice on tube rolling. I also have noticed that a general 5U4G/Rectifer tube rolling thread does not exist and impressions and recommendations are spread throughout many different threads depending on the amp. This thread will serve to put some of those ideas together.
> 
> As many of you know, I have owned several amps that use these rectifiers and after many hours of listening, have decided to put together a comparison/guide/review thingy to help people decide what tubes they would like to use in their amps, as well as a general opinion as to their sound, performance, and how they compare to many other tubes available. Most of my listening has been done on the Woo Audio amplifiers such as the WA6-SE and WA22; I have also spent quite a lot of time rolling these tubes on the custom 2359Glenn OTL amp I've been using recently. I have noticed that some tubes do indeed sound different on different amps, so do take that into consideration. However, for the most part, their general characteristics remain pretty much the same as long as they are compatible with the amp.
> 
> ...



Great list of information for us not so knowledgable tube users.What sort of life expectancy should I expect from a Western Electric 422A in a Woo WA22 headphone amp.Also same for a USAF 596 with adapter for same amp.Thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jonno41 said:


> Great list of information for us not so knowledgable tube users.What sort of life expectancy should I expect from a Western Electric 422A in a Woo WA22 headphone amp.Also same for a USAF 596 with adapter for same amp.Thanks




both are rated for long life span, expect at minimum 10,000 hours, and probably more without any loss in electrical performance / minimal sound change, mine have run for thousands now with no changes. these are both very robust tubes so,  years and years!


----------



## jonno41

Thanks for the quick response.Should see me out then as I am 78 years old.


----------



## jonno41

Dubstep Girl said:


> *Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison!*​                I have been wanting to create this thread for quite some time now, since I often receive PM's and questions asking for advice on tube rolling. I also have noticed that a general 5U4G/Rectifer tube rolling thread does not exist and impressions and recommendations are spread throughout many different threads depending on the amp. This thread will serve to put some of those ideas together.
> 
> As many of you know, I have owned several amps that use these rectifiers and after many hours of listening, have decided to put together a comparison/guide/review thingy to help people decide what tubes they would like to use in their amps, as well as a general opinion as to their sound, performance, and how they compare to many other tubes available. Most of my listening has been done on the Woo Audio amplifiers such as the WA6-SE and WA22; I have also spent quite a lot of time rolling these tubes on the custom 2359Glenn OTL amp I've been using recently. I have noticed that some tubes do indeed sound different on different amps, so do take that into consideration. However, for the most part, their general characteristics remain pretty much the same as long as they are compatible with the amp.
> 
> ...




Hello,Your list of Rectifier tubes was very helpful,In your opinion,which are the better power tubes.Tung-Sol 5998,Tung-Sol 7236 or GE Jan 6080WC.Any help appreciated.Thanks
John


----------



## Monsterzero

jonno41 said:


> Hello,Your list of Rectifier tubes was very helpful,In your opinion,which are the better power tubes.Tung-Sol 5998,Tung-Sol 7236 or GE Jan 6080WC.Any help appreciated.Thanks
> John


 You didnt address this to me but I can answer quite confident that a real pair of 5998s(domino plates) are in a totally different class than the other two you mentioned.


----------



## jonno41

Monsterzero said:


> You didnt address this to me but I can answer quite confident that a real pair of 5998s(domino plates) are in a totally different class than the other two you mentioned.


 
Thanks for the quick response.I take it by domino plates you mean the six indentations in the plates.
 as seen in the pic.
Which is the better of the other two types of tube.The Tung-sol 7236 or the GE Jan 6080.


----------



## Monsterzero

jonno41 said:


> Thanks for the quick response.I take it by domino plates you mean the six indentations in the plates. as seen in the pic.
> Which is the better of the other two types of tube.The Tung-sol 7236 or the GE Jan 6080.


 Correct. Those are the domino plates.
I do not have any experience with 726,but the GE6080s I own,and they find themselves collecting dust in  my tube cupboard. Not particularly bad,but not great either.


----------



## jonno41

Monsterzero said:


> Correct. Those are the domino plates.
> I do not have any experience with 726,but the GE6080s I own,and they find themselves collecting dust in  my tube cupboard. Not particularly bad,but not great either.



Thanks for your help.


----------



## Monsterzero

jonno41 said:


> Thanks for your help.


 6080s that I like are the Bendix,which have a very wide staging,are fast and have good slam,as well as the RCA,which are quite warm,more romantic sounding and also have +bass,but not as tight as the Bendix.Depending upon which amp youre putting them in,as well as what headphones youre driving would dictate which to choose.


----------



## jonno41

Monsterzero said:


> 6080s that I like are the Bendix,which have a very wide staging,are fast and have good slam,as well as the RCA,which are quite warm,more romantic sounding and also have +bass,but not as tight as the Bendix.Depending upon which amp youre putting them in,as well as what headphones youre driving would dictate which to choose.



I am using a Woo WA22 headphone amp and Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-3 headphones.I have an option on a pair of Bendix 6080WB for around $350 (New Zealand $) but not sure if they will be any better than my Tung -sol 5998`s


----------



## JohnBal

Monsterzero said:


> You didnt address this to me but I can answer quite confident that a real pair of 5998s(domino plates) are in a totally different class than the other two you mentioned.


Hi. You didn't address me either. But there is a thread already for this:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/


----------



## yukio1965

Are there any differences between the 5R4GY and the 5R4GYS? Do they have the same values? Can they be used indifferently one instead of the other?


----------



## gibosi

yukio1965 said:


> Are there any differences between the 5R4GY and the 5R4GYS? Do they have the same values? Can they be used indifferently one instead of the other?



To my knowledge, the only company that manufactured the "S" version was La Radiotechnique in France, but these tubes were often also sold under the Philips brand.

In terms of headphone amps, they can be considered identical. I seem to remember that the "S" designation indicated a base material which improved performance in high-altitude, high voltage settings, for example, in aircraft, but my memory is not all that reliable these days. lol. 

Regardless, my advice is to ignore the "S" and roll away!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jonno41 said:


> I am using a Woo WA22 headphone amp and Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-3 headphones.I have an option on a pair of Bendix 6080WB for around $350 (New Zealand $) but not sure if they will be any better than my Tung -sol 5998`s



those are fun tubes, very forgiving, close in sound to 7236, but warmer and slightly less power output. still 5998 is the way to go here, or the gec 6as7g, everything else is a step down imo


----------



## fortunate son (Feb 18, 2020)

In case anyone is interested, I confirmed with Decware customer support that the CV593 and WE422A are compatible with all Decware amps.


----------



## FiveOneFive (Feb 20, 2020)

leftside said:


> Yes indeed a Cossor 53KU. It's exactly the same construction as another black base Cossor 53KU I have, but this latter one has the regular "Cossor 53KU" white lettering on the tube. Beautiful rectifiers.



Hey,

I found this thread after searching for information about a valve I have.

Thanks for every bodies input, it's indexed on Google and the images are very useful.

I think I have a 53KU - however I cannot make out the brand. Small star on the top left hand side of logo. Brown base. Anyone have any idea? I brought a bulk lot of valves and after selling a few (incl a few 5U4G's), I am down the the last of them.

*ID: Confirmed Cossor 53KU (logo missing slightly) (21/02/2020)*


----------



## Monsterzero

FiveOneFive said:


> Hey,
> 
> I found this thread after searching for information about a valve I have.
> 
> ...



@gibosi can ID it for you.


----------



## FiveOneFive

Maybe its a Cossor and the "Star" is the remainder of the white logo/writing. Unfortunately it has a very small bit of glass in the bottom of it that has come loose.


----------



## leftside

Cossor 53KU


----------



## gibosi

FiveOneFive said:


> Maybe its a Cossor and the "Star" is the remainder of the white logo/writing. Unfortunately it has a very small bit of glass in the bottom of it that has come loose.



Yes indeed, you have a Cossor 53KU. And that small piece of glass is nothing to be concerned about.


----------



## MIKELAP

FiveOneFive said:


> Maybe its a Cossor and the "Star" is the remainder of the white logo/writing. Unfortunately it has a very small bit of glass in the bottom of it that has come loose.


i have bits of glass inside several tubes never cause me problems


----------



## FiveOneFive (Feb 20, 2020)

Thanks for the help all! I need to get them tested.

I am inclined to think the attached is also a 53KU - but a skinny base. Same pin config. 5U stamped on underside.

*ID: Possibly a British Tungsram 5U4G (21/02/2020)*


----------



## gibosi

FiveOneFive said:


> Thanks for the help all! I need to get them tested.
> 
> I am inclined to think the attached is also a 53KU - but a skinny base. Same pin config. 5U stamped on underside.



I'm quite sure this is a 5U4G manufactured by British Tungsram.


----------



## whirlwind

FiveOneFive said:


> Hey,
> 
> I found this thread after searching for information about a valve I have.
> 
> ...




Congrats!  This is a wonderful sounding rectifier.


----------



## FiveOneFive

@gibosi Thanks for your help! I will edit my posts with the possible ID's so it shows on Google.

This is my last one here - Mullard?


----------



## gibosi

FiveOneFive said:


> @gibosi Thanks for your help! I will edit my posts with the possible ID's so it shows on Google.
> 
> This is my last one here - Mullard?



Yes, Mullard, either GZ33 or GZ37. However, I can't reliably tell the difference between these two by eye. If you can make out the Mullard production code, "rS" is GZ33 and "IS" is GZ37.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> I'm quite sure this is a 5U4G manufactured by British Tungsram.



And if someone would like to buy a British Tungsram 5U4G:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV575-U52-...751453?hash=item3fdc86a5dd:g:BqMAAOSwWtZeUP6X


----------



## highstream

What is the difference(s) between the Blackburn Mullard GZ32 (CV593) and the same GZ34/5AR4? Anyone tried the Matsushita version of the latter, produced in a factory Mullard help set-up in Japan after WWII?


----------



## gibosi

Dubstep Girl reviewed the Mullard GZ32 and GZ34 at the very beginning of this thread which gives a pretty good idea of how those two compare. However, I don't know that I have ever seen a review of the Matusita GZ34.


----------



## NjBob001

Dubstep Girl said:


> *Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison!*​                I have been wanting to create this thread for quite some time now, since I often receive PM's and questions asking for advice on tube rolling. I also have noticed that a general 5U4G/Rectifer tube rolling thread does not exist and impressions and recommendations are spread throughout many different threads depending on the amp. This thread will serve to put some of those ideas together.
> 
> As many of you know, I have owned several amps that use these rectifiers and after many hours of listening, have decided to put together a comparison/guide/review thingy to help people decide what tubes they would like to use in their amps, as well as a general opinion as to their sound, performance, and how they compare to many other tubes available. Most of my listening has been done on the Woo Audio amplifiers such as the WA6-SE and WA22; I have also spent quite a lot of time rolling these tubes on the custom 2359Glenn OTL amp I've been using recently. I have noticed that some tubes do indeed sound different on different amps, so do take that into consideration. However, for the most part, their general characteristics remain pretty much the same as long as they are compatible with the amp.
> 
> ...


Awesome review . thanks for all the useful and non bias opinion!!! You helped me put together a Headphone amp Im totally blown away by. Please keep the reviews and your opinions coming very very helpful!!!
Im running a 
WA6 SE with a USAF 596 w/woo adapt 
Sylvania GL7 w/woo adapt. 
Also use RCA 6FD7 fat bottles and a Sophia Princess or Mullard gz34 bugle boy with a few other tubes 6em7 and 6ea7 Old matched Philco sound very nice. Just atm Really enjoying the 596 with the 6gl7 powerful and detailed. Very good bass ad low to moderate listening levels.


----------



## barbz127

Have spent days reading but I havent been able to find this comparison.

I already own a Sophia Electric Princess 274B mesh plate and have the option to grab a RCA 5u4g - would this be considered an upgrade or side grade?

I dont have any issues with the SE other than  an itch to try something new but only if there is the potential for sonic improvements..

These are been run in a Woo Wa6.
Thankyou


----------



## Monsterzero

I havent heard the Sophia,but IMO the RCA is nothing special. Very warm,tons of bass that isnt exactly tight.

If you want a world class rectifier I'd look long and hard at the GEC U52. I havent heard the WE 422a,but the GEC is the best ive heard ,and by a wide margin.


----------



## barbz127

Thankyou

Will stick with the Sophia and keep and eye out for a U52.


----------



## gkg2k

Dear @Dubstep Girl , you helped a lot to show me the way in the complicated world of the rectifier tubes.

*Thank you*.

I totally find myself in your descriptions. I started with the RCA 5R4GY (just about mediocre), then Mullard GZ34 Black base (disconcerting : it turned my preamp into a surgical laser, much more solid-state than any solid-state preamp I've had), then Mullard-Adzam GZ32 (very good, a bit of the concreteness of the GZ34 Black with a much more tube-ish and pleasant sound) and finally GEC U52 (what to say : _*fantastic*_)...in a wonderful crescendo.

I just have a question : made it clear the U52 is an incredible tube, where could you point me to find a tiny bit of extra bass energy and mid-bass dynamics? U52 has an exceptionally refined and transparent bass, but I could wish that micro-bit of extra sense of rhythm that makes _foot tapping_ inevitable...

_*WE 422A *_*or*_* GZ34 Metal base*_*?*

Thank you very much for this final help!

Gianluca


----------



## highstream

I don't know if they've been mentioned, but a couple of rectifiers I've auditioned lately are the KR 5U4G RK Anniversary Edition and the Psvane WE274B Xtreme Series 1:1 Replica, both of which are highly regarded by Lampizator users. The first is detailed, fast, delicate, articulate and has a very good soundstage, etc., but is a little dry for my tastes. The Psvane follows exactly the same design of the original Western Electric 274B, including production humidity and temperature, to ensure complete replication. There's also the Psvane ACME Supreme 274B, which is getting rave reviews on What's Best Forum.


----------



## Roasty

gkg2k said:


> Dear @Dubstep Girl , you helped a lot to show me the way in the complicated world of the rectifier tubes.
> 
> *Thank you*.
> 
> ...



I have the we422a and gec u52. For what it's worth, I find them pretty similar.


----------



## Roasty

barbz127 said:


> Have spent days reading but I havent been able to find this comparison.
> 
> I already own a Sophia Electric Princess 274B mesh plate and have the option to grab a RCA 5u4g - would this be considered an upgrade or side grade?
> 
> ...



I agree with @Monsterzero. RCA 5u4g is not very good.

The Sophia u have is a nice rectifier, but I find a good step up is the EML 274B. I have both and prefer the EML by far.


----------



## gkg2k

highstream said:


> I don't know if they've been mentioned, but a couple of rectifiers I've auditioned lately are the KR 5U4G RK Anniversary Edition and the Psvane WE274B Xtreme Series 1:1 Replica, both of which are highly regarded by Lampizator users. The first is detailed, fast, delicate, articulate and has a very good soundstage, etc., but is a little dry for my tastes. The Psvane follows exactly the same design of the original Western Electric 274B, including production humidity and temperature, to ensure complete replication. There's also the Psvane ACME Supreme 274B, which is getting rave reviews on What's Best Forum.



I didn't know about Psvane from China. I'm glad there's a good alternative to NOS but please give me the benefit of doubt on its being _equal _to NOS.

My Modwright preamp is compatible with the 274B but I don't know much about this tube. How does it compare with the WE 422A?

Thanks, Gianluca


----------



## Roasty (Apr 26, 2020)

I have the psvane 1:1 we274b replica and it is indeed a very impressive tube. Mine had quite a strong hum, but it went away after about 30 hrs or so, thankfully. Its a great sounding tube too. Definitely one of my favourites, but I still rotate between the WE422a and EML 274b the most.


----------



## barbz127

Wheres good to buy the eml 274b?


----------



## Roasty

barbz127 said:


> Wheres good to buy the eml 274b?



I got mine off eBay.


----------



## gkg2k

Roasty said:


> I have the we422a and gec u52. For what it's worth, I find them pretty similar.



Thank you Roasty. That will save me a big expense to get the 422A...while the GZ34 Metal base is echoing in my head.

Gianluca


----------



## gkg2k

Roasty said:


> I have the psvane 1:1 we274b replica and it is indeed a very impressive tube. Mine had quite a strong hum, but it went away after about 30 hrs or so....



Roasty, was the tube itself to hum (vibrating) or did the hum come out of the speakers?


----------



## Roasty

gkg2k said:


> Roasty, was the tube itself to hum (vibrating) or did the hum come out of the speakers?



Heard it on my headphones. Quite apparent. Worse with sensitive cans like Utopia. I always use Utopia to gauge background "blackness". I think the tube just needs some time to settle.


----------



## Monsterzero

gkg2k said:


> Thank you Roasty. That will save me a big expense to get the 422A...while the GZ34 Metal base is echoing in my head.
> 
> Gianluca


different amps,different headphones,different preferences,but the GEC U52 sounds much better than the GZ34.


----------



## gkg2k

Monsterzero said:


> different amps,different headphones,different preferences,but the GEC U52 sounds much better than the GZ34.



Thank you very much Monsterzero, I'm relieved to hear that. I'll enjoy my U52 & Telefunken E88CC!


----------



## gkg2k

Hello, I need your help.

I do not have enough experience to judge if this pair of rare Philips MiniWatt GZ34 Metal Base I've been offered at ~$700 (total) is good to buy or not. I can't test them, it'd be a remote "as is" purchase. The seller says they're used and they measure fine on his AVO VCM 4. What I think is they do not look encouraging, they seem to be darkened internally and the glass is everything but transparent. I rely on you : _would you buy them?_

The pictures :


















*Thank you*


----------



## Crashem

barbz127 said:


> Wheres good to buy the eml 274b?



get it from authorized dealer for the warranty.  Where you at?  Remember you need to register the tube when you get it.


----------



## barbz127

Crashem said:


> get it from authorized dealer for the warranty.  Where you at?  Remember you need to register the tube when you get it.


Located in Australia so unlikely anyone local here.


----------



## Crashem

barbz127 said:


> Located in Australia so unlikely anyone local here.


https://jacmusic.com/

They are like EML’s master distributor and will ship to you.


----------



## highstream (Jun 7, 2020)

To anyone who might be interested, I've just posted for sale a Riccardo Kron Audio KR 5U4G RK Anniversary Edition tube, the special edition rectifier that was offered a few years ago (and sold out quickly) by Lampizator. It's just been burned in, ~375 hours. See the FS ads here: 
- https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-kr-audio-5u4g-rk-anniversary-edition-tube.934287/

PM if interested.


----------



## highstream

If anyone happens to have a spare Fivre 5R4GY that they'd be willing to part with -- grey anode, D-D getter, brown base -- please get in touch via PM. Thanks,


----------



## DoCZero

Hey All  

First of all - great thread, I spend so much time hunting through and tube rolling seems fun, but I am a bit of a novice. 
Currently i'm running a WA22 with the following Tubes:

Rectifier: Brimar 5Z4GY
Power: Tung Sol 7236 
Driver: RCA 6SN7  (Grey glass)

I've only got these and the stock tubes, so looking for some recommendations. I'm Generally listening to  EDM / Pop / styles (90%) the time. Headphones i'm using is Hifiman Ayra's and some Audeze XC's.  Dac is a gen 1 Gungir. 

Could you guys throw out some recommendations for tube rolls (budget also pls hahah) that would be good evolutions from the setup I have already  
This tube world can be a bit of a learning curve!


----------



## Monsterzero

DoCZero said:


> WA22


I would replace the RCAs with KenRad 6SN7 and although the TS are nice I'd probably save up and get the Bendix 6080s. That will give you pretty huge bass and a wide staging. Nothing wrong w/ the Brimar.


----------



## DoCZero

That sounds epic! Thank you kind sir! 
Now... off to the ebays hahaha


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## Monsterzero

DoCZero said:


> That sounds epic! Thank you kind sir!
> Now... off to the ebays hahaha


Bendix 6080s arent cheap, and it might take awhile to find a good pair, but theyre excellent tubes and worth the wait and $


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## SilverEars (Oct 12, 2020)

I tried several 5AR4s, and the best one was actually the cheapest.  I tried Mullard blackburn NOS, and it seem unnecessarily expensive for the sound.  Shuguang red writing 5AR4 was the most accurate. Their 2a3 are good enough, but there are better sounding 2a3, like the EML.  But, interestingly their red writing rectifier tubes are good sounding.

NOS doesn't guarantee quality sound.  I hate tubes. Tubes are overpriced. NOS are a rip-off.  Ebay sucks. Bla.


----------



## punit

Once I discovered tubes , I have slowly, step by step changed  my audio chain to include tubes in each & every part (Dac, Pre-amp, Amp, Head-amp)  but I can understand the frustration of the trial & error process...


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## Roasty

Monsterzero said:


> Bendix 6080s arent cheap, and it might take awhile to find a good pair, but theyre excellent tubes and worth the wait and $



https://www.hifishark.com/goto/65_124342651181/792a2ce4-0d47-11eb-a694-393262613334

Are these the ones you're mentioning? Some Google search came up with slotted vs non slotted, and slotted were better. These look like non slotted (?).


----------



## Monsterzero

Roasty said:


> https://www.hifishark.com/goto/65_124342651181/792a2ce4-0d47-11eb-a694-393262613334
> 
> Are these the ones you're mentioning? Some Google search came up with slotted vs non slotted, and slotted were better. These look like non slotted (?).


Im not really sure TBH. @rosgr63 says there are several versions of the Bendix 6080s. He, or perhaps @L0rdGwyn might be able to help.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

those are non slotted. not the biggest fan of this tube (even when they were 200 a pair, at this price nooo never lol), they are pretty colored and not the most resolving, they are dark sounding and thick, which could tame brightness though, bass is good too.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Im not really sure TBH. @rosgr63 says there are several versions of the Bendix 6080s. He, or perhaps @L0rdGwyn might be able to help.



There are quite a few different versions of the Bendix 6080, and the link below, in the 6AS7G thread, illustrates many of the differences:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-91#post-10625059


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> There are quite a few different versions of the Bendix 6080, and the link below, in the 6AS7G thread, illustrates many of the differences:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-91#post-10625059


And here I thought you were just a walking encyclopedia of rectifiers!


----------



## Roasty

gibosi said:


> There are quite a few different versions of the Bendix 6080, and the link below, in the 6AS7G thread, illustrates many of the differences:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-91#post-10625059



Thanks for linking that post! Lol all the way from 2014. Would never have been able to find it on my own.


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## attmci (Oct 17, 2020)

Dubstep Girl said:


> those are non slotted. not the biggest fan of this tube (even when they were 200 a pair, at this price nooo never lol), they are pretty colored and not the most resolving, they are dark sounding and thick, which could tame brightness though, bass is good too.


These are good for his application (Woo/422A/ECC35 with 1266). Need ~1 hr to warm it up.


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## highstream (Oct 19, 2020)

Picked up a Chatham potato masher, rock solid military B version construction, for less than a dime because the seller didn’t have the box and didn’t want to mislead. Sounds very good. Transparent, modestly warm, wide stage, good tone, even bottom to top. Makes other things sound better. A little on the robust side, but very much something I could live with. The masher, especially the B version, is great deal for someone not looking to spend big bucks on a recti.


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## Monsterzero

highstream said:


> Picked up a Chatham potato masher, rock solid military B version construction, for less than a dime because the seller didn’t have the box and didn’t want to mislead. Sounds very good. Transparent, modestly warm, wide stage, good tone. Makes other things sound better. A little on the robust side, but very much something I could live with. The masher, especially the B version, is great deal for someone not looking to spend big bucks on a recti.


Yup. Between the masher and the Brimar, those are the only rectifiers i use in my DAC.


----------



## UMN

Can anyone compare the sound of a the RCA 5V4G (1950 vintage) versus a Mullard 5V4G? 
I use the RCA 5V4G in my Woo WA-6 (with 6FD7 fat bottles), and I am wondering if I should try a Mullard.
Thank you!


----------



## UMN (Oct 25, 2020)

Deleted


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## DoCZero

Hey guys n gals, 

Wanted to update - changed some tubes. Picked up a Marconi U52 and the Ken Rad vt-231. Pretty damn nice sound coming from this amp at the moment!
I'm still stalled on the 6080's as the $$'s are big. 

Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated!



DoCZero said:


> First of all - great thread, I spend so much time hunting through and tube rolling seems fun, but I am a bit of a novice.
> Currently i'm running a WA22 with the following Tubes:
> 
> Rectifier: Brimar 5Z4GY
> ...


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## attmci (Nov 15, 2020)

I was watching the bidding war of 596 on eBay. The price for this midcore rare tube is going crazy.  The 596 has large soundstage, however, it is way too bright for my ears. It does help you to transfer your tube amp to a solid amp easily.


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## attmci (Nov 20, 2020)

attmci said:


> I was watching the bidding war of 596 on eBay. The price for this midcore rare tube is going crazy.  The 596 has large soundstage, however, it is way too bright for my ears. It does help you to transfer your tube amp to a solid amp easily.


Hmmm, someone might had read this post and the same tube was relisted. LOL


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## highstream (Nov 21, 2020)

Anyone know of a guide to Westinghouse date codes?

@attmci  596 too bright? Wow. Having grown up playing classical piano I’m very sensitive to bright, having sent cables and components back for it, but I don’t find the 596 particularly bright in a Lampi TRP dac — I have two samples (with Tesla EL51s). Where I find it can be a little midrange shouty is in a Supratek preamp (I’m thinking two 596’s in a row is too much).


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## attmci (Nov 21, 2020)

highstream said:


> Anyone know of a guide to Westinghouse date codes?
> 
> @attmci  596 too bright? Wow. Having grown up playing classical piano I’m very sensitive to bright, having sent cables and components back for it, but I don’t find the 596 particularly bright in a Lampi TRP dac — I have two samples (with Tesla EL51s). Where I find it can be a little midrange shouty is in a Supratek preamp (I’m thinking two 596’s in a row is too much).


As I said, just for my own taste in my AMP comparing to my other rectifier tubes.


----------



## highstream

Anyone have date code info on Westinghouse? They are not often mentioned, but everyone who does reports them to be excellent.


----------



## gibosi

highstream said:


> Anyone have date code info on Westinghouse? They are not often mentioned, but everyone who does reports them to be excellent.



Unfortunately, I have yet to find the key to Westinghouse date codes. 

But I am curious... Are you talking about Westinghouse rectifiers? Most that I see on eBay appear to be RCA rebrands.


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## highstream (Nov 23, 2020)

Check out https://www.company-histories.com/Westinghouse-Electric-Corporation-Companyry.html. My sense of the indutrial and radio tubes is that Westinghouse continued its own design operation until at least after WWII. Their design was definitely different in ones I’ve seen photos of from the war. But the RCA was huge and licensed their tubes under other brand names at some point.


----------



## gibosi

As a result of a federal consent decree in 1932, Westinghouse and General Electric exited the radio business, that is, receiving and transmitting tubes and receivers. While both companies continued to work on developing and providing tubes for non-radio industrial applications, such as motor control, railway signaling and medical applications, compared to the radio business, these endeavors were not a significant source of income, and multiple large vacuum tube factories were no longer necessary. In the end, neither company was a major player in radio or television again until after WWII. At that time, GE jump-started their post-war business by purchasing the Ken-Rad vacuum tube business. But it appears that Westinghouse started over from scratch.

So I don't know what photos you have seen, but it appears that Westinghouse didn't have the manufacturing capacity to produce 5-volt tube rectifiers until after WWII. And again, every Westinghouse rectifier I have seen appears to be a rebranded RCA. But if someone has a rectifier that was actually manufactured by Westinghouse, I would love to see it.

Cheers


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## spyder1 (Nov 24, 2020)

Westinghouse 5U4G         337 is Westinghouse factory code.


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## gibosi

spyder1 said:


> Westinghouse 5U4G         337 is Westinghouse factory code.



It was common practice for manufacturers to put their own name and EIA code on tubes sourced from other manufacturers. So in order to determine which company actually manufactured a tube, it is necessary to compare construction. And on eBay, it is common to see RCA 5U4G with those same ribbed plates and toothy mica spacer, and a getter on top. So again, I have yet to see a Westinghouse 5U4G or 5Z3 that doesn't look like a rebadged RCA.


----------



## spyder1

Then how will you ever be able to identify a "Real Westinghouse Rectifier Tube." Ex: What came first, the chicken or the egg?


----------



## Monsterzero

Has anyone tried a pre-war Kenrad VT244, and if so, how does it sound?


----------



## gibosi

spyder1 said:


> Then how will you ever be able to identify a "Real Westinghouse Rectifier Tube." Ex: What came first, the chicken or the egg?



RCA introduced the 5U4G in 1938. So I would say RCA was the first. And again, if and when I see a Westinghouse 5U4G or 5Z3 (same tube, but different base) that doesn't look like a rebranded RCA, Sylvania, or what have you, I would consider it likely to be a genuine Westinghouse.

That said, Canadian Westinghouse Co. Limited was established in Canada in 1903. However, it is not clear to me if this was a self-standing company or a subsidiary of US Westinghouse. Whatever, during WWII, this company manufactured a 5U4G (VU71) for the British market. It's not one of my favorites, but it isn't bad either.


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## Dubstep Girl (Nov 24, 2020)

attmci said:


> I was watching the bidding war of 596 on eBay. The price for this midcore rare tube is going crazy.  The 596 has large soundstage, however, it is way too bright for my ears. It does help you to transfer your tube amp to a solid amp easily.





highstream said:


> Anyone know of a guide to Westinghouse date codes?
> 
> @attmci  596 too bright? Wow. Having grown up playing classical piano I’m very sensitive to bright, having sent cables and components back for it, but I don’t find the 596 particularly bright in a Lampi TRP dac — I have two samples (with Tesla EL51s). Where I find it can be a little midrange shouty is in a Supratek preamp (I’m thinking two 596’s in a row is too much).



When I first heard a 596 it was on a WA6-SE, it was bright and kinda forward / aggressive sounding. On a WA22, it was a little lean but smooth and good overall. On a Glenn OTL  amp, Apex Teton, and WA5 though, it was warmer and very well balanced, with more resolution than I first heard. On the WA5 I find it to be very transparent, not really adding too much of its own sound. I feel that the 596 seems to take on the sound of the equipment and source and carrys it thru, fulfilling its purpose as an electrical rectifier, true to source. On my WA5 I preferred it over RCA 5U4G and GZ32 / CV 593, which are both great (I recommend these the most as they’re just fantastic all around) but not as clean sounding. I now consider the 596 to be reference level and in the same tier as the WEs, GECs, and metal Mullard, all vary slightly in regards to imaging, tone, decay, and depth. the 596 tho, it scales with the amp and other tubes in it.


----------



## attmci

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USAF-596-Rectifier-Tube/224240586194?hash=item3435c7cdd2:g:mCQAAOSwK1xfqLee


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## highstream (Dec 3, 2020)

Dubstep Girl said:


> When I first heard a 596 it was on a WA6-SE, it was bright and kinda forward / aggressive sounding. On a WA22, it was a little lean but smooth and good overall. On a Glenn OTL  amp, Apex Teton, and WA5 though, it was warmer and very well balanced, with more resolution than I first heard. On the WA5 I find it to be very transparent, not really adding too much of its own sound. I feel that the 596 seems to take on the sound of the equipment and source and carrys it thru, fulfilling its purpose as an electrical rectifier, true to source. On my WA5 I preferred it over RCA 5U4G and GZ32 / CV 593, which are both great (I recommend these the most as they’re just fantastic all around) but not as clean sounding. I now consider the 596 to be reference level and in the same tier as the WEs, GECs, and metal Mullard, all vary slightly in regards to imaging, tone, decay, and depth. the 596 tho, it scales with the amp and other tubes in it.



One tube that gets mentioned occasionally by someone as being really good, but I've never seen reviewed is the Westinhouse 5U4G. I happened to pick up one cheap and if one's taste is more toward the neutral and detailed side, this is an excellent recti.


----------



## gibosi

highstream said:


> One tube that gets mentioned occasionally by someone as being really good, but I've never seen reviewed is the Westinhouse 5U4G. I happened to pick up one cheap and if one's taste is more toward the neutral and detailed side, this is an excellent recti.



How about a picture?


----------



## highstream

gibosi said:


> How about a picture?



Added above


----------



## gibosi

highstream said:


> One tube that gets mentioned occasionally by someone as being really good, but I've never seen reviewed is the Westinhouse 5U4G. I happened to pick up one cheap and if one's taste is more toward the neutral and detailed side, this is an excellent recti.



Yours doesn't appear to be an RCA. If it was an RCA with a rectangular bottom getter and those "umbrella spokes" attached to a round top mica, I would expect the plates to be smooth, not ribbed. That said, I just searched eBay for Westinghouse 5U4G and didn't see another one like yours.  So I have no idea if yours is genuine Westinghouse production or if it is a rebrand. For example, this Ken Rad looks very similar:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...Ribbed-Plate-Amplifier-Tube-Pair/313322321680

To my mind, whether or not Westinghouse actually manufactured a 5U4G is still a mystery.....


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> For example, this Ken Rad looks very similar:


Speaking of which, has anyone listened to a Ken Rad rectifier before? I asked a few days ago with zero response.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Speaking of which, has anyone listened to a Ken Rad rectifier before? I asked a few days ago with zero response.



Unfortunately, I have never had a chance to listen to one. But surely there is someone who frequents this thread that has one??


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, I have never had a chance to listen to one. But surely there is someone who frequents this thread that has one??


Ken, I believe a good rectifier tube will last forever and live longer than both of us. When I randomly tested my power, driver, and rectifier tubes, the rectifier tube is always gave "like new" readings. The power tubes will last about 2-3000 hrs.


----------



## highstream

attmci said:


> Ken, I believe a good rectifier tube will last forever and live longer than both of us. When I randomly tested my power, driver, and rectifier tubes, the rectifier tube is always gave "like new" readings. The power tubes will last about 2-3000 hrs.



I've read exactly the opposite, rectis go faster. How fast depends on the circuit, at least in part. While I'm no expert, there is what seems a good discussion of some reasons why, as well as why in part there are sound differences between rectis at https://tubemaze.info/sound-of-rectifier/ (see full discussion).


----------



## highstream (Dec 4, 2020)

gibosi said:


> Yours doesn't appear to be an RCA. If it was an RCA with a rectangular bottom getter and those "umbrella spokes" attached to a round top mica, I would expect the plates to be smooth, not ribbed. That said, I just searched eBay for Westinghouse 5U4G and didn't see another one like yours.  So I have no idea if yours is genuine Westinghouse production or if it is a rebrand. For example, this Ken Rad looks very similar:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...Ribbed-Plate-Amplifier-Tube-Pair/313322321680
> 
> To my mind, whether or not Westinghouse actually manufactured a 5U4G is still a mystery.....



According to Wikipedia, Westinghouse purchased the lamp division of Ken-Rad in 1943, but who was producing 5U4G's I don't know. I can't say whether Westinghouse actually made it's own 5U4G, but there are quite a few of them under its name, going well into the 1950s, including from dealers. From what I read, Westinghouse had been making radio tubes since the 1920s, as described here: https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/radio.htm.

Here's a 1943 video: . 

And there were advertisements for their radio tubes in the mid 1950s: https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-news/westinghouse-tubes-radio-television-news-april-1954.htm. There is this otherwise useful compilation in Cunningham Tubes dealer catalog from 1949. It lists 5U4G's for all the usual suspects except Westinghouse. But who knows why, since they existed. https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Catalogs/Radios-Master/1949-14/Radios-Master-1949-A-Tubes.pdf.


----------



## gibosi

highstream said:


> According to Wikipedia, Westinghouse purchased the lamp division of Ken-Rad in 1943, but who was producing 5U4G's I don't know. I can't say whether Westinghouse actually made it's own 5U4G, but there are quite a few of them under its name, going well into the 1950s, including from dealers. From what I read, Westinghouse had been making radio tubes since the 1920s, as described here: https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/radio.htm.
> 
> Here's a 1943 video: .
> 
> And there were advertisements for their radio tubes in the mid 1950s: https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-news/westinghouse-tubes-radio-television-news-april-1954.htm. There is this otherwise useful compilation in Cunningham Tubes dealer catalog from 1949. It lists 5U4G's for all the usual suspects except Westinghouse. But who knows why, since they existed. https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Catalogs/Radios-Master/1949-14/Radios-Master-1949-A-Tubes.pdf.




As I wrote earlier, after the federal consent decree in 1932, Westinghouse and GE exited the receiving tube business. (Receiving tubes are those tubes used in radio receivers.) And I am aware of the fact that prior to the decree, Westinghouse made receiving tubes. I have a bunch of Westinghouse type 27's that were manufactured in the late 1920's and I consider them to be very good. But between 1932 and the end of WWII, Westinghouse continued to work on developing and providing tubes for non-radio industrial applications, such as motor control, railway signaling and medical applications and didn't get back into the receiving tube business until after WWII.

The 1949 catalogue you reference features no Westinghouse receiving tubes which suggests they even by 1949, they still were not in the business of manufacturing receiving tubes. This suggests that Westinghouse didn't have the manufacturing capacity to produce 5-volt tube rectifiers until sometime in the 1950's.

But again, every Westinghouse rectifier I have seen appears to be a rebrand. And again, to my mind, whether or not Westinghouse actually manufactured a 5U4G is still a mystery.....


----------



## attmci

highstream said:


> I've read exactly the opposite, rectis go faster. How fast depends on the circuit, at least in part. While I'm no expert, there is what seems a good discussion of some reasons why, as well as why in part there are sound differences between rectis at https://tubemaze.info/sound-of-rectifier/ (see full discussion).


I said according to my experience, not the "tubemaze".


----------



## highstream

I won't argue with your experience. What I will say is that I read it some time ago from users, well before I came across tubemaze. But if you read the discussion there carefully, what the guy who responded explains is that depending on the amount and timing of the current/voltage surge at start up, along with the type of recti being used, those tubes get worn faster or slower. If true, I assume that means the latter will last a lot longer. Perhaps that has something to do with your experience?


----------



## highstream

This is more of an FYI for anyone looking at Tung-Sol rectifier date codes of the form "NF", which I had been trying to figure out and not having any luck with via an internet search. Going through eBay listings, I found a regular tube seller's listing of a pair of 5U4GB tubes with codes of "322NH3" and "322PY3." which he specifically identified as mid 1957 and late 1959, respectively (the 322 is the EIA code for Tung Sol, and the ending 3 is perhaps a plant code). I asked him how he knew this, and he replied the following:

"I have been developing a system for these dates by observation and evidence of sorts. The later tube came with a sales slip tucked in the tube box. The other tube came with a guitar amplifier stash/retubing kit that was also dated 1957. From my key that I have been guessing in the past, I believe that these first letters stand for these years."

Makes sense. With the Y on the second tube, I'm guessing there was either a non linear coding system for weeks, months or quarters -- I've seen reference to something like that for early Sylvania's -- or the year was divided into two week periods.


----------



## gibosi (Dec 16, 2020)

attmci said:


> I was watching the bidding war of 596 on eBay. The price for this midcore rare tube is going crazy.  The 596 has large soundstage, however, it is way too bright for my ears. It does help you to transfer your tube amp to a solid amp easily.



To add my two cents, in my amp, a Glenn OTL, the 596 is, in fact, rather bright. But if one is willing to take some time to find drivers and output tubes that match up well, the 596 shines. That is, synergy is everything IMHO.

While some prioritize such things as airiness, space, separation, and sound-stage, I am essentially a tone guy. If the tone doesn't sound correct to my ears, then these other things don't really matter to me.

Currently I have the 596 installed with a pair of mid-1950's clear-top 5998s. To my old and rather worn-out ears, both of these are somewhat forward, but rolling in a WWII-era gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT helps to tame that forwardness, and the resulting tone is quite nice. And now I can appreciate some of the finer qualities of the 596 as noted by @Dubstep Girl.

As always, my ears and gear, YMMV.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> To add my two cents, in my amp, a Glenn OTL, the 596 is, in fact, rather bright. But if one is willing to take some time to find drivers and output tubes that match up well, the 596 shines. That is, synergy is everything IMHO.
> 
> While some prioritize such things as airiness, space, separation, and sound-stage, I am essentially a tone guy. If the tone doesn't sound correct to my ears, then these other things don't really matter to me.
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong my friend. It's a good rec. tube. I am using it now with the same power tubes, and found a pair of TS black driver tubes does help. I am also playing with the Amarra now.

 But it's the current price of this tube makes me nervous. I believe WOO bought a large batch of 596 a while ago and since then the tube becomes very rare.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> Don't get me wrong my friend. It's a good rec. tube. I am using it now with the same power tubes, and found a pair of TS black driver tubes does help. I am also playing with the Amarra now.
> 
> But it's the current price of this tube makes me nervous. I believe WOO bought a large batch of 596 a while ago and since then the tube becomes very rare.



Yes, I agree. But it is not only the 596. It seems like every tube I like has become considerably more expensive recently.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Yes, I agree. But it is not only the 596. It seems like every tube I like has become considerably more expensive recently.


Blame Highstream and Monster0.


----------



## Monsterzero

attmci said:


> Blame Highstream and Monster0.


How did I get dragged into this? I dont even own a 596. Jeez......


----------



## Ranger Ron

Monsterzero said:


> Has anyone tried a pre-war Kenrad VT244, and if so, how does it sound?


I have one. It’s a very nice tube. Lots of detail. I don’t think it’s on the same level as say brimar U52 etc, not as warm and spacious. I think it sounds better than the later ones. Reminds me a bit of an old 5C3S svetlana.


----------



## Monsterzero

Ranger Ron said:


> I have one. It’s a very nice tube. Lots of detail. I don’t think it’s on the same level as say brimar U52 etc, not as warm and spacious. I think it sounds better than the later ones. Reminds me a bit of an old 5C3S svetlana.


How's the bass on it?


----------



## Ranger Ron

Monsterzero said:


> How's the bass on it?


Not huge. I think that’s why I just look at now from time to time.  If I recall the later KenRad I have has more bass impact but less refined sounding overall.


----------



## Monsterzero

Ranger Ron said:


> Not huge. I think that’s why I just look at now from time to time.  If I recall the later KenRad I have has more bass impact but less refined sounding overall.


Thanks Ron!


----------



## Ranger Ron

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks Ron!


Absolutely! Once you’ve heard the top dogs sing it’s hard to spend more than $35 for an audition from anything else out there.


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## highstream (Dec 20, 2020)

attmci said:


> Blame Highstream and Monster0.



Hah, think you better check the beginning of this thread -- and the U.S. stock market. My first one was $220 privately last year via someone on the Lampi Atlantic TRP thread, and the second went for $260 in August on an eBay auction, although that included the $100 Woo adapter.


----------



## attmci

highstream said:


> Hah, think you better check the beginning of this thread -- and the U.S. stock market. My first one was $220 privately last year via someone on the Lampi Atlantic TRP thread, and the second went for $260 in August on an eBay auction, although that included the $100 Woo adapter.


I got my adapter from Dan. He can make you one for much less.


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## highstream

attmci said:


> I got my adapter from Dan. He can make you one for much less.



Who's Dan? I got the first pair of adapters off eBay from China for $15.


----------



## attmci

highstream said:


> Who's Dan? I got the first pair of adapters off eBay from China for $15.


@Deyan


----------



## gibosi

Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. 

Don't know how much interest there is in the 596 rectifier.....

Recently, I've been rolling through various drivers and output tubes to discover which ones match up well with the 596. In my opinion, this rectifier is fairly bright. It reminds me of my Fivre rectifiers (5U4G and 5R4GY), but I confess I haven't directly compared them.

A couple days agoi I posted about using this rectifier with 5998s and a gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT, and feeling that it sounded quite nice. But with further listening, I began to feel that maybe another driver could be better. However, in the end I couldn't find a driver that was dark enough to properly tame the brightness of the 596 / 5998 combination.

So I decided to play it safe and roll in some of my favorite output tubes, four Tung-Sol 6BX7, and a pair of #76 RCA single triodes. And I do believe I can live with this combination for quite some time.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays.
> 
> Don't know how much interest there is in the 596 rectifier.....
> 
> ...


Try this?

https://www.amarrasound.com/amarra-luxe/

Merry Christmas!


----------



## RobertSM

The pictures of the rectifiers on page one seem to have disappeared. Too bad, this was a good way to get a good look at these rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

RobertSM said:


> The pictures of the rectifiers on page one seem to have disappeared. Too bad, this was a good way to get a good look at these rectifiers.



I have no idea why they have disappeared. Perhaps someone here with more knowledge will be able to tell us.

But are their specific rectifiers you are interested in?  If you let us know, I'm sure someone here can provide a picture.


----------



## MIKELAP

i noticed this on several threads


----------



## funch

A lot of thread pics were lost several years ago when HF went to using a different host.


----------



## gibosi

funch said:


> A lot of thread pics were lost several years ago when HF went to using a different host.



Yes, but that is not the case here. I have checked out these pictures many times since then. It seems to me that these deletions happened within the last month or so.


----------



## Monsterzero

Typed with an admin. Theyre looking into it.


----------



## HPAholic

Just picked this up > *Philips Miniwatt GZ34 Metal Base* made in Holland with a* Erik Akerlund & Ruben Rausing* box?​


----------



## joe

RobertSM said:


> The pictures of the rectifiers on page one seem to have disappeared. Too bad, this was a good way to get a good look at these rectifiers.



I managed to find them and have edited the post in question to replace them.


----------



## MIKELAP

joe said:


> I managed to find them and have edited the post in question to replace them.


Alot of photos also missing in the Littledot Tube Rolling Guide


----------



## joe

MIKELAP said:


> Alot of photos also missing in the Littledot Tube Rolling Guide



I'll take look for some references to images and see what I can find. The initial post has no code referring to images/attachments, so there's nothing to recover there, unfortunately.


----------



## MIKELAP

joe said:


> I managed to find them and have edited the post in question to replace them.


 In the Littledot  thread gallery all images are gone from page 34 to 71


----------



## gibosi (Jan 8, 2021)

joe said:


> I managed to find them and have edited the post in question to replace them.



Thank you! 

Another old set of pictures it would be good to have are those at the beginning of the 6SN7 Reference thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread


----------



## gibosi

HPAholic said:


> Just picked this up > *Philips Miniwatt GZ34 Metal Base* made in Holland with a* Erik Akerlund & Ruben Rausing* box?​



Congratulations! 

About the box, it may or may not be the original box it came in. How about a picture?


----------



## joe

Thanks guys. If there's anything else I can investigate, *please PM me*.


----------



## Monsterzero

joe said:


> I managed to find them and have edited the post in question to replace them.


Thank you Joe


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Yes, but that is not the case here. I have checked out these pictures many times since then. It seems to me that these deletions happened within the last month or so.





gibosi said:


> Yes, but that is not the case here. I have checked out these pictures many times since then. It seems to me that these deletions happened within the last month or so.


I was about to recommend Ken to give an update. I believe he have most of those tubes on P1.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> I was about to recommend Ken to give an update. I believe he have most of those tubes on P1.



I wish! But I do have 9 of them, and a number of others that are not in her list. 

But the pictures are back!


----------



## Wid

Anyone else have one? Waiting for delivery from Germany.


----------



## gibosi

Wid said:


> Anyone else have one? Waiting for delivery from Germany.



It might not be what you think it is....

"IMPORTED" printed on the glass implies that Mullard didn't make it. And while the picture doesn't provide a lot of detail, I suspect that this is a GZ32 made by La Radiotechnique (RTC) in France.

Good luck!


----------



## Wid

gibosi said:


> It might not be what you think it is....
> 
> "IMPORTED" printed on the glass implies that Mullard didn't make it. And while the picture doesn't provide a lot of detail, I suspect that this is a GZ32 made by La Radiotechnique (RTC) in France.
> 
> Good luck!



You are correct and was sold as such.
*Mullard/La Radio Technique/Dario Miniwatt GZ32/5V4G/CV593 NOS.*
Branded *Mullard* but made by La Radio Technique/Dario Miniwatt.


----------



## FiveOneFive

Hey,

I probably do, but mine are untested.

I recall a few GZ32's in my lot. 

I have an Ebay account with recent feedback, and get good international postage rates.

Thanks





Wid said:


> Anyone else have one? Waiting for delivery from Germany.


----------



## RobertSM (Jan 9, 2021)

Here's a couple of pictures of my Miniwatt-Dario GZ32. Made in France 🇫🇷.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I wish! But I do have 9 of them, and a number of others that are not in her list.
> 
> But the pictures are back!


I don't have to purchase too many rectifier tubes based on this list. Really appreciate the efforts of the author.


----------



## attmci

Wid said:


> You are correct and was sold as such.
> *Mullard/La Radio Technique/Dario Miniwatt GZ32/5V4G/CV593 NOS.*
> Branded *Mullard* but made by La Radio Technique/Dario Miniwatt.


This used to be about 10 bucks. I could be wrong.


----------



## Wid

attmci said:


> This used to be about 10 bucks. I could be wrong.



Not anymore if it was.


----------



## Wid

Buy the Sofia or look at an NOS of some kind? What’s the best $200 rectifier out there?


----------



## highstream

I picked up a pair of NOS Mullard GZ32's from a dealer in Canada to try in a Lampi dac for many times more than $10. Listenable to be sure, but I prefer the GEC KT66 and Tesla EL51 in my (speaker) set up. Anyone want my Mullards, feel free to make contact. I don't think they even have 400 hrs.


----------



## Ranger Ron

Wid said:


> Buy the Sofia or look at an NOS of some kind? What’s the best $200 rectifier out there?


You can score nice Brimar 5R4GY for $200 or less. If you’re patient you can find real deal GEC U52’s for around $200 used.


----------



## MIKELAP (Jan 13, 2021)

I own a couple 596 rectifiers  how much are they going for these days?


----------



## Wid

Instead of going with the Sofia tube I opted for a Brimar 5Z4G and a Mullard GZ37. Got them for less than what the Sophia would have cost.


----------



## gibosi

MIKELAP said:


> I own a couple 596 rectifiers  how much are they going for these days?



Checking eBay, one recently sold for $169 and another for $296. But being as I am a good guy, I'll offer you $100 total for both of yours.


----------



## RobertSM

Here is a couple of pictures of a Cossor 53KU/GZ37 fat bottle that I bought late last year. The measurements read just below new old stock. It's been lightly used but should still have plenty of life ahead of it. This tube came from a Parisian audiophile who was going through the collection they had built up over the years. I don't know if the pictures can do justice and show the tubes true condition. It's super clean and one of the best used tubes I've purchased.


----------



## Ranger Ron

RobertSM said:


> Here is a couple of pictures of a Cossor 53KU/GZ37 fat bottle that I bought late last year. The measurements read just below new old stock. It's been lightly used but should still have plenty of life ahead of it. This tube came from a Parisian audiophile who was going through the collection they had built up over the years. I don't know if the pictures can do justice and show the tubes true condition. It's super clean and one of the best used tubes I've purchased.


Well done! That is an absolute Fantastic tube. Enjoy


----------



## attmci

MIKELAP said:


> I own a couple 596 rectifiers  how much are they going for these days?


$50 LOL


----------



## attmci

RobertSM said:


> Here is a couple of pictures of a Cossor 53KU/GZ37 fat bottle that I bought late last year. The measurements read just below new old stock. It's been lightly used but should still have plenty of life ahead of it. This tube came from a Parisian audiophile who was going through the collection they had built up over the years. I don't know if the pictures can do justice and show the tubes true condition. It's super clean and one of the best used tubes I've purchased.


The 89/86 may indicate it had been used many hours. Do you like it?


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Checking eBay, one recently sold for $169 and another for $296. But being as I am a good guy, I'll offer you $100 total for both of yours.


You sure? You purchased the tube for $15 a couple of years ago.


----------



## RobertSM

attmci said:


> The 89/86 may indicate it had been used many hours. Do you like it?



I think rectifiers can have a very long life depending on obvious factors. 

To be honest I've only listened to it for maybe 10 hours. I put it into my amp, Woo Audio WA6-SE, to test it out and to give it a listen. I'd say that the review of it on page one does a great job of describing the character. My primary rectifier is a GEC U52, which I absolutely love. Compared to the U52 it does have a little bit more warmth. It also has a more visceral bottom end. It's absolutely a classic tube and I'm happy to own one. I'll keep it as a backup for when my U52 goes out one day. At that point I'll use it as my primary. But yes, a great, great tube in my book.


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> You sure? You purchased the tube for $15 a couple of years ago.



These are prices that were paid about two months ago, in November. But yes, before it became popular and no one knew anything about it, and it was cheap.


----------



## MIKELAP

attmci said:


> $50 LOL


Actually i couldnt find any on Ebay this is why i was  asking. $50.00 lol many funny people here lol


----------



## attmci (Feb 10, 2021)

RobertSM said:


> I think rectifiers can have a very long life depending on obvious factors.
> 
> To be honest I've only listened to it for maybe 10 hours. I put it into my amp, Woo Audio WA6-SE, to test it out and to give it a listen. I'd say that the review of it on page one does a great job of describing the character. My primary rectifier is a GEC U52, which I absolutely love. Compared to the U52 it does have a little bit more warmth. It also has a more visceral bottom end. It's absolutely a classic tube and I'm happy to own one. I'll keep it as a backup for when my U52 goes out one day. At that point I'll use it as my primary. But yes, a great, great tube in my book.


I enjoy my 4 2 2 A, and it stays in my amp all the time. But recently added a Marconi U 5 2 according to your recommendation. It will take a while to arrive.


----------



## RobertSM

attmci said:


> I enjoy my 422A, and it stays in my amp all the time. But recently added a Marconi U52 according to your recommendation. It will take a while to arrive.




You have me thinking that I haven't heard the Western Electric 422a for a long time.

Rolling this into the WA6-SE today. Let's see how it's sounding.


----------



## attmci (Feb 10, 2021)

RobertSM said:


> You have me thinking that I haven't heard the Western Electric 422a for a long time.
> 
> Rolling this into the WA6-SE today. Let's see how it's sounding.


How do you like it?

The Marconi U 5 2 arrived from UK.

I won't say anything about the tube. LOL


----------



## RobertSM

attmci said:


> How do you like it?
> 
> The Marconi U52 arrived from UK.
> 
> I won't say anything about the tube. LOL




Well, it does have better instrument separation then the U52. It also pushes the soundstage further away. It also does have a beautiful 3-D texture that's really pleasing.

Honestly, I prefer the U52. I like that the soundstage is more intimate. It's closer and to me draws you in more. I also like that compared to the Western Electric 422a it's warmer.

I think I'm going to sell the Western Electric 422a. It's an amazing tube but I feel like it needs to find a new home for someone who will listen to it all the time.


----------



## attmci (Feb 10, 2021)

RobertSM said:


> Well, it does have better instrument separation then the U52. It also pushes the soundstage further away. It also does have a beautiful 3-D texture that's really pleasing.
> 
> Honestly, I prefer the U52. I like that the soundstage is more intimate. It's closer and to me draws you in more. I also like that compared to the Western Electric 422a it's warmer.
> 
> I think I'm going to sell the Western Electric 422a. It's an amazing tube but I feel like it needs to find a new home for someone who will listen to it all the time.


You should keep it for future amps/tube rolling.


----------



## RobertSM

attmci said:


> You should keep it for future amps/tube rolling.
> 
> TBO, I have three NIB 422A.




Yes, maybe you're right. I can save this tube for another day. Congrats on the 422a tubes. They are becoming very rare and of course becoming very expensive to obtain.


----------



## attmci (Jan 29, 2021)

RobertSM said:


> Yes, maybe you're right. I can save this tube for another day. Congrats on the 422a tubes. They are becoming very rare and of course becoming very expensive to obtain.


The U52 will stay in my amp for a while. Our friend lived at Down at Dinos Bar & Grill (@Monsterzero) could be terrified by the punch (bass power) of the tube in the near future. LOL


----------



## gibosi

attmci said:


> You should keep it for future amps/tube rolling.
> 
> TBO, I have three NIB 422A.



I don't think you really need three. Why don't you give me one?


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I don't think you really need three. Why don't you give me one?


I recall that my metal base *GZ34* "passed away unexpectedly" and killed the fuse a couple of times. It supposed to be a rectified tube will last forever. So I need some backup. LOL


----------



## gibosi

ahaha... I understand completely. I try to have at least two backups of any tube I use often.


----------



## Barnstormer13

I need some advice folks. I’ve been running a 1940s RCA hanging filament 5U4G for a while, but my amp is starting to crackle a lot on one channel, especially at startup. I rolled in a Sophia Princess and it’s definitely the RCA. The problem is the Sophia sounds grainy and, well, horrible in comparison. Is there a current production tube that’s going to sound as good as that old RCA?


----------



## gibosi

I have no experience with current production, so can't help with that. But I would encourage you to thoroughly sand the pins of your RCA (I usually use 220 grit), if you haven't already, before giving up on this tube.

Good luck!


----------



## Ranger Ron

gibosi said:


> I have no experience with current production, so can't help with that. But I would encourage you to thoroughly sand the pins of your RCA (I usually use 220 grit), if you haven't already, before giving up on this tube.
> 
> Good luck!


You could also check the tightness of your sockets.


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Feb 1, 2021)

Ranger Ron said:


> You could also check the tightness of your sockets.



socket is tight. Amp is about a year old. Will try sanding the pins- The RCA really made the amp sing and I’m not willing to go back to the Sophia or the stock tube it came with. If worse comes to worse, I guess I can always hunt up another RCA, though they seem to be up quite a bit from what I paid last time.


----------



## Ranger Ron

Barnstormer13 said:


> socket is tight. Amp is about a year old. Will try sanding the pins- The RCA really made the amp sing and I’m not willing to go back to the Sophia or the stock tube it came with. If worse comes to worse, I guess I can always hunt up another RCA, though they seem to be up quite a bit from what I paid last time.


----------



## Ranger Ron

Sorry, double post::/ I can highly recommend 60’s vintage Svetlana 5C3S with the black plates ( not sure if any different in sound from gray) They are selling very cheap right now and I think sound fantastic.  Something to consider I guess with the rapidly rising rates of good US rectifiers.


----------



## RobertSM (Feb 6, 2021)

Sharing this gem today...

This is a Marconi Canada, (Canadian Marconi Company aka CMC) 5U4G from the early to mid 1950's. It was made by the Radiotron Valve Company, in Montreal, Canada. The Radiotron Valve Company didn't just make tubes for Marconi. They also made tubes for CGE(Canadian General Electric) and Westinghouse Canada. Maybe more.

I bought this tube, NOS from an organ repair and supply/service company that's based in Victoria, British Columbia. The owner of company had found a few cases of these NOS tubes that they had sitting around, forgotten about in a old supply room. I think I paid $45.00-$50.00 for it shipping included.

In terms of sound, it has alot in common with tubes produced in England during the same era. Very close to the U52 but with a soundstage that's a little further back. The highs are maybe a little relaxed and slightly rolled off. It does have a beautiful liquid mid-range with above average instrument separation. The bass is strong and extended. This rectifier goes low! Overall the sound is very pleasant with a warm tone. Recommend!


----------



## highstream (Feb 4, 2021)

Anyone know the difference between the STC 5R4GY and the Brimar version, if any? I've read Brimar was part of STC prior until 1960, but don't know the relationship in the branding or construction. I picked up the pictured undated Brimar NOS dual O getter from that eBay seller in India who seems to have a ton of tubes, although this one w/o markings (he says they rubbed off). But any doubts about its origins seems to disappear in playback: It's the quietist and in some ways most addictive sounding recti I've come across (being used in a Supratek preamp). Not quite as (modestly) warm as I normally favor -- I suspect a little upper midrange bump -- but not unpleasantly far off either.


----------



## Wid

Did a little tube swapping with a friend.


----------



## gibosi (Feb 5, 2021)

highstream said:


> Anyone know the difference between the STC 5R4GY and the Brimar version, if any? I've read Brimar was part of STC prior to 1960, but don't know the relationship in the branding or construction. I picked up the pictured undated Brimar NOS dual O getter from that eBay seller in India who seems to have a ton of tubes, although this one w/o markings (he says they rubbed off). But any doubts about its origins seems to disappear in playback: It's the quietist and in some ways most addictive sounding recti I've come across (being used in a Supratek preamp). Not quite as (modestly) warm as I normally favor -- I suspect a little upper midrange bump -- but not unpleasantly far off either.



That top mica structure is typical of later Brimar 5R4GY. And to my ears, it sounds the same as the earlier Brimar. And I agree. To my ears this is the best 5R4GY.


----------



## attmci

RobertSM said:


> I think rectifiers can have a very long life depending on obvious factors.
> 
> To be honest I've only listened to it for maybe 10 hours. I put it into my amp, Woo Audio WA6-SE, to test it out and to give it a listen. I'd say that the review of it on page one does a great job of describing the character. My primary rectifier is a GEC U52, which I absolutely love. Compared to the U52 it does have a little bit more warmth. It also has a more visceral bottom end. It's absolutely a classic tube and I'm happy to own one. I'll keep it as a backup for when my U52 goes out one day. At that point I'll use it as my primary. But yes, a great, great tube in my book.



I found the opposite. 53 is not as warm as the U 5 2. I also found the first tube on this thread leads the 52 in transparency and soundstage (by not much; and my system/taste).


----------



## RobertSM

attmci said:


> I found the opposite. 53 is not as warm as the U 5 2. I also found the first tube on this thread leads the 52 in transparency and soundstage (by not much; and my system/taste).




I agree that the Western Electric 422a is the most transparent rectifier on the list. And as you noted all of these nuances are totally dependent on system and personal taste.


----------



## strider1007

OK, so I received my brand new WA6-SE from Woo. 
After reading a bit on this thread I already bought my first plastic black base Mullard / Philips GZ34.  " Full tested on Funke W19S 145ma - 145ma it won’t get better. " No idea if that is good, but you have to start somewhere...

Laugh at me, just not too hard, if it is a waste of money, I paid 90 Euro's...


----------



## gibosi

strider1007 said:


> OK, so I received my brand new WA6-SE from Woo.
> After reading a bit on this thread I already bought my first plastic black base Mullard / Philips GZ34.  " Full tested on Funke W19S 145ma - 145ma it won’t get better. " No idea if that is good, but you have to start somewhere...
> 
> Laugh at me, just not too hard, if it is a waste of money, I paid 90 Euro's...



It's a perfectly good rectifier. And very frankly, it's best not to be too influenced by the opinions of others. Your ears will tell you if it's good. So in the end, if this GZ34 sounds good to you in your system this is all that matters.

Also, if you often roll different driver/power tubes, it is likely that no one rectifier will sound best with all combinations. So you might decide to try a few other rectifiers. But be careful... before you know it, you might have a 100 rectifiers (like me!) lol


----------



## strider1007 (Mar 3, 2021)

Soooo... This is an infectious hobby...

Found the frequently mentioned Sophia Princess 274B and a Chatham 5R4WGA potato-masher (?)...  The 274B is currently doing great things to my music..

Nearing endgame-station, for now...


----------



## gibosi

strider1007 said:


> Soooo... This is an infectious hobby...
> 
> Found the frequently mentioned Sophia Princess 274B and a Chatham 5R4WGA potato-masher (?)...  The 274B is currently doing great things to my music..
> 
> Nearing endgame-station, for now...



I want to congratulate you on nearing endgame. And I'm sure your wallet is very happy too! 

And I'm finally approaching end game, I think, with this latest acquisition, a Telefunken RGN4004. Fortunately for your wallet, I seriously doubt this will work in your Woo. And I'm sure your wallet will be very happy. This is a 4-Volt rectifier drawing 4 Amps of heater current. It was manufactured in Berlin in 1937 and notice instead of mica spacers, it uses glass beads to keep the filaments aligned.




And it puts on quite a show at night. With mesh plates, the hot cathodes are clearly visible.



Anyway, it really doesn't belong in this thead, but I thought some here might enjoy the "eye candy".


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 22, 2021)

gibosi said:


> I want to congratulate you on nearing endgame. And I'm sure your wallet is very happy too!
> 
> And I'm finally approaching end game, I think, with this latest acquisition, a Telefunken RGN4004. Fortunately for your wallet, I seriously doubt this will work in your Woo. And I'm sure your wallet will be very happy. This is a 4-Volt rectifier drawing 4 Amps of heater current. It was manufactured in Berlin in 1937 and notice instead of mica spacers, it uses glass beads to keep the filaments aligned.
> 
> ...



It's beautiful. You know as far as rectifiers go.

What amp are you running this in?

And how does it sound?


----------



## gibosi

RobertSM said:


> It's beautiful. You know as far as rectifiers go.
> 
> What amp are you running this in?
> 
> And how does it sound?



I have a custom Glenn OTL. And of note, I can run 3-Volt, 4-Volt and 5-Volt rectifiers. And in terms of sound, it has what I call the "Telefunken house sound". If you roll Telefunken double triodes, you would expect highs that are almost biting in some systems, great bass, but somewhat lean in the mids. I am running it with a pair of Mullard 6080s and a Mullard ECC33 which compliment the TFK very nicely.


----------



## RobertSM

That's a cool feature that I had no idea applied to the GOTL amps. Being able to run a variety of rectifiers with a variety of voltages is fantastic! I can only imagine the options that it opens up for owners. I've been lurking on the GOTL thread for the last few months. I'm not even remotely prepared to do down the path of ownership...yet.

Either way, thanks for sharing this super cool and rare rectifier. 😎


----------



## gibosi

RobertSM said:


> That's a cool feature that I had no idea applied to the GOTL amps. Being able to run a variety of rectifiers with a variety of voltages is fantastic! I can only imagine the options that it opens up for owners. I've been lurking on the GOTL thread for the last few months. I'm not even remotely prepared to do down the path of ownership...yet.
> 
> Either way, thanks for sharing this super cool and rare rectifier. 😎



Four-volt rectifiers were the standard in Europe, including Britain, until WWII. And for example, I don't have and don't know of any 5-volt rectifiers from such major European brands as Telefunken, Tesla, Valvo, British Mazda or Tungsram (either British and Hungarian). And in addition, there are 4-volt rectifiers from a number of small relatively unknown companies such as Loewe Radio, RFT, Ratron, Dolam, ZWLE and others. It's been an enjoyable ride.


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 22, 2021)

I think the U52 datasheet states that it's a 5v rectifier.

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0080.htm


----------



## gibosi

RobertSM said:


> I think the U52 datasheet states that it's a 5v rectifier.
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0080.htm



Yes, the U52 is a 5-Volt rectifier. And there also exists a 4-Volt version, U18/20.


----------



## RDSChicago

Which of those U52’s would replace or be compatible with  a 5u4g being used in a Lampizator Big 7?


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 22, 2021)

The U52 in most cases should be a drop in replacement for a 5U4G.

I'm actually running a Osram U52 currently in place of a 5AR4 in my ALO Studio Six. The transformer is spec'd to handle both the voltage and the current so I'm not worried. But it's always important to double check.


----------



## gibosi (Mar 22, 2021)

I don't own a Lampizator, but if a 5U4G will work, the U52 will definitely work. Yes, a drop-in replacement.

Edit: And in fact, in most cases, a U52 is also a drop-in replacement for a 5U4G*B*


----------



## gibosi

Speaking of U52, I recently picked these up on ebay for about $100, including a pair of Sylvania 5Z3! It appears that no one else knew what they were. 
And the back story might be interesting to some here.

The construction screams British GEC / Marconi / Osram manufacture. However, instead of an octal base, these have a 4-pin UX base. Hence they are labeled 5Z3. But even so, the 5Z3 is electrically identical to the 5U4G, except for the base. And we all know that putting a different base on a tube doesn't change the sound. Also, adapters to allow the use of 5Z3 in a 5U4G socket are easy to find.

Also, note that they carry the "CVC" brand and date codes from 1983. But the upside-down cup getters indicate that these were originally manufactured in the late 1940's. And I wondered, who is "CVC"? Well super sleuth @attmci figured out that "CVC" is "Chelmer Valve Company, Chelmsford, Middlesex, Essex England". To my knowledge, they never manufactured tubes, but rather, specialized in procuring, and in some cases, refurbishing surplus vacuum tubes for resale. And in fact, this company still exists:

https://www.cvc-components.com/services/electron-tubes/

So it appears that CVC acquired these as surplus, cleaned them up, rebased them and sold them to an unknown client in 1983.

And I should add, they sound great!


----------



## Ranger Ron

gibosi said:


> Speaking of U52, I recently picked these up on ebay for about $100, including a pair of Sylvania 5Z3! It appears that no one else knew what they were.
> And the back story might be interesting to some here.
> 
> The construction screams British GEC / Marconi / Osram manufacture. However, instead of an octal base, these have a 4-pin UX base. Hence they are labeled 5Z3. But even so, the 5Z3 is electrically identical to the 5U4G, except for the base. And we all know that putting a different base on a tube doesn't change the sound. Also, adapters to allow the use of 5Z3 in a 5U4G socket are easy to find.
> ...


That is fantastic! Nicely done


----------



## gibosi

If someone is willing to use a 5Z3 to 5U4G adapter, here is another disguised U52. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5Z3-Brimar...V1861-D-getter-black-plates-14-2/114751935658


----------



## RDSChicago

Just picked up this one in Germany. Any opinions?


----------



## RobertSM

RDSChicago said:


> Just picked up this one in Germany. Any opinions?



If I remember correctly that's a good rectifier. I haven't rolled mine in for awhile but I think I remember it being on the thicker side. Very warm. But as I said it's been awhile. Should be good though.

Let me also plan on getting that into my amp at some point this week and I'll report back.

What do you think? Are you enjoying the tube? Because that's all that really matters.


----------



## gibosi

To my ears, it is the best of the 5R4GY, but as always, it's all about synergy: Does it sound good in your system?


----------



## RDSChicago

It is still in transit. Using it on a Lampizator Big 7 DAC.


----------



## gibosi

When you get it, please let us know.


----------



## RDSChicago

Sure is fun to roll rectifiers (have around 5 so far) and DHT’s in the Lampizator! I haven’t tried the KR 5u4g RK or some of the exotic 274’s many rave about which are priced up in the stratosphere. Wondering if I’d appreciate the differences?


----------



## gibosi

The only way to know for sure is to try them.


----------



## UMN

Any opinions on the Brimar GZ32 being sold by Langrex on eBay? Thanks.


----------



## spyder1

UMN said:


> Any opinions on the Brimar GZ32 being sold by Langrex on eBay? Thanks.


Don't buy. It is a Brimar labeled Russian 5C4S vacuum tube. The Russian 5C4S sells for $7.25 a tube.


----------



## UMN

Wow. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## gibosi

UMN said:


> Wow. Thanks for the heads up!



To begin, look for the Mullard label. If it carries the Mullard label, it's probably the real thing. And as you get more experience, you will learn to be able to differentiate a Mullard GZ32 from the others by internal construction. In addition to the Russian 5C4S, there is also a version manufactured by La Ratiotechnique in France.


----------



## UMN

I actually already own a British Mullard GZ32. I was just looking at some alternatives. In my Woo Audio WA-6,  I prefer this tube over others I have tried:  Ken Rad 5V4G, RCA 5U4G, Mullard early black base smooth plate GZ34, and Raytheon RK60. Most of the other "better" rectifier's are too just expensive.


----------



## RobertSM (Apr 9, 2021)

I have more rectifiers than I need but these look good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NO...-/324486653639?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

I actually own a mid 1950's version of this tube in "coke bottle" form. But these tubes are NIB & NOS. And the price is right $30.00. You can't even buy a newly manufactured tube for this price. And in my humble opinion, Canadian made tubes from the golden era of tube making are as good or better than USA made tubes.

These should be good in the Woo Audio WA6 or in any amp that uses a 5U4G.


----------



## Ranger Ron

UMN said:


> I actually already own a British Mullard GZ32. I was just looking at some alternatives. In my Woo Audio WA-6,  I prefer this tube over others I have tried:  Ken Rad 5V4G, RCA 5U4G, Mullard early black base smooth plate GZ34, and Raytheon RK60. Most of the other "better" rectifier's are too just expensive.


Consider trying out a Brimar 5z4g, great tube that can still be had relatively cheap.


----------



## UMN

The Brimar 5z4G looks interesting. Are there any sonic differences in the construction and year of manufacture? I see everything from 50's to 70's on eBay.


----------



## Ranger Ron

UMN said:


> The Brimar 5z4G looks interesting. Are there any sonic differences in the construction and year of manufacture? I see everything from 50's to 70's on





UMN said:


> The Brimar 5z4G looks interesting. Are there any sonic differences in the construction and year of manufacture? I see everything from 50's to 70's on eBay.


I have a pair with the solid type getter probably late 50’s with STC labeling, and a newer square getter version , to me they sound very similar, the older perhaps has a more refined high end and physically feels heavier.


----------



## attmci

spyder1 said:


> Don't buy. It is a Brimar labeled Russian 5C4S vacuum tube. The Russian 5C4S sells for $7.25 a tube.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/GZ32-BRIMAR-VINTAGE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/261328914856

Langrex began to selling junk tubes............ from when?


----------



## RDSChicago

RobertSM said:


> I have more rectifiers than I need but these look good.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NO...-/324486653639?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
> 
> ...


Thanks. I bought this one based on your recommendation!


----------



## RobertSM

RDSChicago said:


> Thanks. I bought this one based on your recommendation!



Let us know how it works out.

I think that's the real trick with collecting and buying tubes. Is being opened-minded and doing your homework and trying tubes that may be off labeled. There was so much rebranding that went on. And for $30.00 you can give it a shot. I mean it should be good. Even the newly made rectifiers from Asia or Russia are more expensive when you include shipping. So this tube is actually a deal for the price and quality.


----------



## spyder1 (Apr 16, 2021)

Interested in trying NOS military vacuum tubes, Woo Audio sells the 5931 at a "Great Price," IMO. www.wooaudio.com/tubes/5931-rca-tube


----------



## RDSChicago

spyder1 said:


> Interested in trying NOS military vacuum tubes, Woo Audio sells the 5931 at a "Great Price," IMO. www.wooaudio.com/tubes/5931-rca-tube


Would that tube substitute for a 5u4g?


----------



## RobertSM

RDSChicago said:


> Would that tube substitute for a 5u4g?



In some amps in can be a drop in replacement for a 5U4G. But it's always a good idea to double check with the manufacturer. We don't need to fry our transformers unknowingly.


----------



## gibosi (Apr 16, 2021)

The 5931 is identical to a 5U4WG. That is, it is electrically identical to a 5U4G, but it has been ruggedized for use in industrial and military environments.

And yes, if your amp can use a 5U4G it can also use a 5931.


----------



## RDSChicago

gibosi said:


> The 5931 is identical to a 5U4WG. That is, it is electrically identical to a 5U4G, but it has been ruggedized for use in industrial and military environments.
> 
> And yes, if your amp can use a 5U4G it can also use a 5931.


Grea! I have a Lampizator which uses the 5u4g. Maybe worth trying a 5931?


----------



## gibosi

RDSChicago said:


> Grea! I have a Lampizator which uses the 5u4g. Maybe worth trying a 5931?



I've never tried these, but it appears that both RCA and Sylvania made them. So I suspect they will sound substantially like an RCA or Sylvania 5U4GB, depending on which 5931 you buy.  For sure, the price is right.


----------



## RDSChicago

gibosi said:


> I've never tried these, but it appears that both RCA and Sylvania made them. So I suspect they will sound substantially like an RCA or Sylvania 5U4GB, depending on which 5931 you buy.  For sure, the price is right.


Seems like someone got there before me! It’s gone.


----------



## attmci

RDSChicago said:


> Seems like someone got there before me! It’s gone.


What do you want to improve? Ken is a big big fan of rectifier tubes. 

But comparing to the other tubes your amps use, rectifier should be the last one to roll. You have to spend significant $ to achieve limit improvement. The price of the good recifier tubes skyrocket in the past year.


----------



## RDSChicago

attmci said:


> What do you want to improve? Ken is a big big fan of rectifier tubes.
> 
> But comparing to the other tubes your amps use, rectifier should be the last one to roll. You have to spend significant $ to achieve limit improvement. The price of the good recifier tubes skyrocket in the past year.


Good point. In this crazy hobby aren’t we all striving for improvement? But I see your point and thank you!


----------



## Ranger Ron

RDSChicago said:


> Good point. In this crazy hobby aren’t we all striving for improvement? But I see your point and thank you!


I highly recommend an old Russian svetlana 5u4g equivalent. 5u3c I believe. Look for shiny black plates and a factory OTK stamp. Fantastic bang for the buck. I find them as good or even better than most American made 5u4g ‘s .


----------



## jaykay1967 (May 16, 2021)

Please delete, if this is not allowed or helpful:

I have posted several quality rectifiers in the classifieds last night.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/holy-grail-rectifier-tube-takatsuki-electric-ta-274b.4590/ SOLD
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/eml-5u4g-rectifier-tube.4589/
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/nos-1956-mullard-gz34-metal-base-rectifier.4591/ SOLD
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/nos-1956-usaf-596-matched-pair-rectifiers.4594/
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/blue-sophia-electric-274b-and-2x-6sn7.4587/
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/nos-1940s-us-navy-274b.4600/
There are a few other tubes as well. 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/quad-sylvania-7236-power-tubes.4602/
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/nos-matched-pair-tung-sol-5998-1950s.4595/ SOLD

I was trying to figure out sensible prices.  I would welcome any pointers if you honestly feel that my pricing is off.

I'm not looking for trades as I need to raise funds.   I am trying to ignore the reality that I may never be able to buy back some of these rare tubes.

Massive discount for bulk purchases.  PM me.


----------



## attmci

jaykay1967 said:


> Please delete, if this is not allowed or helpful:
> 
> I have posted several quality rectifiers in the classifieds last night.
> 
> ...


Nice collection.

But, ... above dealer price.


----------



## jaykay1967

attmci said:


> Nice collection.
> 
> But, ... above dealer price.



thanks for the reality check and I have listened.

I’ve just sold a few of the above in a discounted superbundle and threw in a few extra free NOS tubes….Usaf 596 (+ adaptor) +  2x ts 7236


----------



## askadennisk

RobertSM said:


> In some amps in can be a drop in replacement for a 5U4G. But it's always a good idea to double check with the manufacturer. We don't need to fry our transformers unknowingly.


You are an expert，how about this tube"https://www.ebay.com/itm/124778745372".could you give me some ideas.thanks~


----------



## RobertSM

askadennisk said:


> You are an expert，how about this tube"https://www.ebay.com/itm/124778745372".could you give me some ideas.thanks~



It's a good rectifier and the price is fair. What amp are you thinking about using this for?


----------



## askadennisk

RobertSM said:


> It's a good rectifier and the price is fair. What amp are you thinking about using this for?


wa6 se,I always have time to come here to read your comments～


----------



## RobertSM

askadennisk said:


> wa6 se,I always have time to come here to read your comments～



It's a great rectifier in the WA6-SE. I actually own that amp too. It does have a good bit of warmth but it's not too much. I actually think it has a great deal of extension in both the bass and treble. Also excellent speed. For the WA6-SE it's in my top 3.


----------



## askadennisk

RobertSM said:


> It's a great rectifier in the WA6-SE. I actually own that amp too. It does have a good bit of warmth but it's not too much. I actually think it has a great deal of extension in both the bass and treble. Also excellent speed. For the WA6-SE it's in my top 3.


sounds good ~I will buy one to try，And the price is good.Thank you so much for your advice.


----------



## Laines

Hello, I'm looking for a dark sounding 5u4 (or equivalent) tube for my wa22. Any recommendations?


----------



## RobertSM (Jul 24, 2021)

Laines said:


> Hello, I'm looking for a dark sounding 5u4 (or equivalent) tube for my wa22. Any recommendations?



The Brimar 5R4GY is a darker sounding rectifier. They are pretty easy to still find and isn't super expensive.

Another option would be the Cossor 53KU. It's a darker sounding rectifier. Maybe not as dark as the Brimar 5R4GY but still warmer to my ears. The issue with the Cossor is that they are more difficult to find and has become expensive.


----------



## gibosi

And if you haven't done so yet, check out the beginning of this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/

In addition to the Brimar and Cossor, which are becoming more and more scarce and expensive, DupStep Girl reviews a number of other less expensive tubes that might be suitable, namely, RCA and Tung-Sol 5U4G. Also, while I haven't heard it, some report that the Ken-Rad 5U4G is fairly dark. And for a little more money, the Mullard GZ32 might be worth checking out.

Good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm about to expand on my rectifiers because of Odyssey, my new custom tube amp coming. I've at the moment Cossor 53ku, couple of GZ34 including the Sittard and metal base. I've 2 Mullard GZ32 which I bought new from a friend. Can't believe he sold it to me for AUD$100 for 2 and they are new. I was using GZ34 in my 300b amp for a while but now I'm using the GZ32. It's lush and slightly warm. Great tone.

Sadly I sold off my GEC U52. There's a lot of details in the U52 and it's not warm. Now have to get another. I have a few 5U4G line up and also a 596. A 5R4GY ... yes that too. Then that's it.


----------



## Laines

gibosi said:


> And if you haven't done so yet, check out the beginning of this thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/
> 
> ...


Awesome @RobertSM & @gibosi will definitely check out your suggestions!


----------



## Ovide

Philips 5R4GYS is also a warmer option. I run these in my WA6SE. I have bought severaI NOS 1971 5R4GYS when they were still relatively affordable. I can compare to the Brimar 5R4GY DD getter if you want. I should have a Mullard GZ32 somewhere to compare as well.


----------



## Laines

Ovide said:


> Philips 5R4GYS is also a warmer option. I run these in my WA6SE. I have bought severaI NOS 1971 5R4GYS when they were still relatively affordable. I can compare to the Brimar 5R4GY DD getter if you want. I should have a Mullard GZ32 somewhere to compare as well.


That would be amazing, thanks for your kind help!


----------



## RobertSM

UntilThen said:


> I'm about to expand on my rectifiers because of Odyssey, my new custom tube amp coming. I've at the moment Cossor 53ku, couple of GZ34 including the Sittard and metal base. I've 2 Mullard GZ32 which I bought new from a friend. Can't believe he sold it to me for AUD$100 for 2 and they are new. I was using GZ34 in my 300b amp for a while but now I'm using the GZ32. It's lush and slightly warm. Great tone.
> 
> Sadly I sold off my GEC U52. There's a lot of details in the U52 and it's not warm. Now have to get another. I have a few 5U4G line up and also a 596. A 5R4GY ... yes that too. Then that's it.



I completely understand. For the last 4-5 years I've been on a rectifier buying spree. It's been alot of fun, trying out NOS rectifiers and seeing what I like. Trying to get the best deals and unearth those special and underrated tubes.

But alas, I have way more then I need now. I have backups and then backups to the backups.

I've been thinking and maybe in September I'll actually place a chunk up for sale here in the Head-Fi classifieds. The idea isn't really to get back every dollar I've spent. The idea is really to share and let other people enjoy some of these amazing tubes. I sold my last Western Electric 422a that tested NOS to a fellow Head-Fier 3-4 months ago. I sold it for at least $100.00-150.00 less then I could have gotten on Ebay. But the point wasn't to earn every last cent. It was more to make most of my money back and to share in the rarer tubes. I actually consider myself lucky to have been able to enjoy some of these classic tubes and think that it's more fun to have others share in the experience.


----------



## UntilThen

Well Robert, I did try out several of those rectifiers in Studio Six and like the change. I do love tubes and it’s not just rectifiers but I am still collecting KT88 and EL34 and all the variants.


----------



## Ovide

Laines said:


> That would be amazing, thanks for your kind help!


I’m a bit busy, but I will try to do this over this week.


----------



## whirlwind

Mullard GZ32 is a great bang for the buck for a warmer sounding rectifier also much cheaper than most of the top tier rectifiers...the skinny GZ37 ain't bad either for the price.


----------



## MasonStorm

RDSChicago said:


> Just picked up this one in Germany. Any opinions?


I have a pair of these.  Great for jazz music!


----------



## les24preludes (Sep 4, 2021)

I just did a rectifier shootout of all my tubes in a 300b SE amp with NP Acoustics amorphous OPT. Haven't tried with headphones yet. Top of the list were:
2 x AZ1 mesh, 53KU, Sylvania VT-244, GE 5U4, Cossor GZ33. In the original review the RCA 5U4 was preferred to the Sylvania, but I'd put them the other way round. The NOS Mullard 5U4 was rather flat, like the RCA version. I didn't really like any of the 5R4GY types I have - good tone but overly warm which was a step down after the clarity of the preferred tubes above. The GZ34 Sovtek was pretty good but a step down, though I preferred it overall to the 5R4 types. The Russian 5C3S was quite good though a trifle veiled. Good tone and smooth. 5V4G and 5V3A were not liked at all.


----------



## gibosi (Sep 4, 2021)

les24preludes said:


> I just did a rectifier shootout of all my tubes in a 300b SE amp with NP Acoustics amorphous OPT. Haven't tried with headphones yet. Top of the list were:
> 2 x AZ1 mesh, 53KU, Sylvania VT-244, GE 5U4, Cossor GZ33. In the original review the RCA 5U4 was preferred to the Sylvania, but I'd put them the other way round. The NOS Mullard 5U4 was rather flat, like the RCA version. I didn't really like any of the 5R4GY types I have - good tone but overly warm which was a step down after the clarity of the preferred tubes above. The GZ34 Sovtek was pretty good but a step down, though I preferred it overall to the 5R4 types. The Russian 5C3S was quite good though a trifle veiled. Good tone and smooth. 5V4G and 5V3A were not liked at all.



Nice job! And I hope you will be able to add pictures soon. 

A question...  Do you know the manufacturer of your AZ1s? The AZ1 was manufactured by a number of different companies and in my experience, tubes manufactured by different companies in different factories sound different.

And a couple comments...  I don't believe Cossor ever manufactured the GZ33, and I would guess that they sourced that tube from Mullard and put their name on it.

Also, the Mullard 5U4G was manufactured both in Blackburn and in Tottenham, which was the old British Tungsram factory. And these two tubes sound different.

But of course, without pictures it's hard to know....


----------



## les24preludes (Sep 4, 2021)

I have several different mesh AZ1s, various brands, plus mesh AZ11s. It's a favourite.

The Cossor is marked 53KU and GZ33. It's very clean and clear. I prefer my other 53KU which is wrapped in brown tape because of a loose base. Need to fix it. Can't read the make.

The Mullard is a straight glass in original box, as shown. Not fussed about keeping it - should be worth a bit for the name. The VT-244 was special, dismissed as a "cheap tube" originally but not so cheap any more.


----------



## gibosi

les24preludes said:


> I have several different mesh AZ1s, various brands, plus mesh AZ11s. It's a favourite.
> 
> The Cossor is marked 53KU and GZ33. It's very clean and clear. I prefer my other 53KU which is wrapped in brown tape because of a loose base. Need to fix it. Can't read the make.
> 
> The Mullard is a straight glass in original box, as shown. Not fussed about keeping it - should be worth a bit for the name. The VT-244 was special, dismissed as a "cheap tube" originally but not so cheap any more.



It's great that you can run 4-volt rectifiers as well as 5-volt. I have an OTL that can run 3, 4 and 5 volt rectifiers, but unfortunately, the AZ1 and AZ11 cannot provide enough current. But I can roll AZ4, AZ12 and AZ50. And as it is an OTL, my favorite rectifier depends on the synergy with the driver and output tube. I like Telefunken, Valvo, Lowe Radio, WIRAG and others.

Based on the construction, your Cossor 53KU / GZ33 is actually a Mullard GZ33. The Cossor 53KU is "fatter."

And given that the Mullard 5U4 is clearly marked "foreign made", it is likely that it is American-made or even Japanese-made.

Again, thanks for sharing.


----------



## les24preludes

gibosi said:


> It's great that you can run 4-volt rectifiers as well as 5-volt. I have an OTL that can run 3, 4 and 5 volt rectifiers, but unfortunately, the AZ1 and AZ11 cannot provide enough current. But I can roll AZ4, AZ12 and AZ50. And as it is an OTL, my favorite rectifier depends on the synergy with the driver and output tube. I like Telefunken, Valvo, Lowe Radio, WIRAG and others.
> Again, thanks for sharing.



I build all my own amplification, so I just used 2 sockets for the AZ1. AZ1 and AZ11 mesh are affordable, while AZ4 and AZ12 mesh aren't. 

I never use adapters - I just swap sockets. I also swapped in a UX4 socket to try some 5Z3 - that's a nice tube.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Based on the construction, your Cossor 53KU / GZ33 is actually a Mullard GZ33. The Cossor 53KU is "fatter."
> 
> And given that the Mullard 5U4 is clearly marked "foreign made", it is likely that it is American-made or even Japanese-made.



I have the fatter Cossor 53ku.  As we have spoken, I also have a Mullard 5U4G made in USA.  I'm intrigued by rectifiers now for my SET amp.


----------



## les24preludes (Sep 4, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> I have the fatter Cossor 53ku.  As we have spoken, I also have a Mullard 5U4G made in USA.  I'm intrigued by rectifiers now for my SET amp.



Rectifiers do seem to sound different. It's not specially the voltage drop either. My HT with different ones turned out to be as follows:
GZ33 - 370
5V4G - 362
GZ34 - 355
53KU - 352
5U4 - 350
5V3A - 349
5Z3 - 340

My favourites included GZ33 and 5Z3 - top and bottom - as well as 5U4 which was right in the middle. 

I was surprised at the results. I previously liked the 5R4 but couldn't take the warm sound and soft treble and bass. The Soviet GZ34 was better than I expected. The 2 x AZ1 mesh which I regarded as unbeatable was arguably equalled by the more dynamic VT-244 version of the 5U4, the GE 5U4, the GZ33 Cossor and the 53KU. My favoured combination now is a 5U4 type for the output stage of the amp and a single AZ1 or AZ11 mesh for the input stage. Best of both. I just use 2 stages in my 300b SE.


----------



## UntilThen

les24preludes said:


> Rectifiers do seem to sound different. It's not specially the voltage drop either. My HT with different ones turned out to be as follows:
> GZ33 - 370
> 5V4G - 362
> GZ34 - 355
> ...



What's HT and what are those numbers? Glad you mention GE 5U4 because I have one too and @bcowen is giving me a hard time . I have 2 tube amps at the moment that use tube rectifications. A 300b and a KT88 / EL34 Set amps.

My GE 5U4G (brand new about 3 weeks ago.) Clock up some hours now.  


I've 3 GZ34. 

A Miniwatts tv1 56h. See this site http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo GZ34/GZ34.htm, a Mullard BVA GZ34 DD getter code LIJ 1961 Bruxelles Mazda and a Sittard GZ34.


----------



## les24preludes (Sep 5, 2021)

Hi - HT (high tension) or also called B+ is the DC voltage that operates the tube circuit. So when I tested the rectifiers I planned for a HT of around 350v. That's into my 300b SE amp.

My GE 5U4 is a straight bottle with side getter.


----------



## UntilThen

les24preludes said:


> Hi - HT (high tension) or also called B+ is the DC voltage that operates the tube circuit. So when I tested the rectifiers I planned for a HT of around 350v. That's into my 300b SE amp.
> 
> My GE 5U4 is a straight bottle with side getter.



Got you. My KT88 amp has a 450v on the plate, giving an anode -> cathode voltage of about 400V. On my 300b amp, the builder told me the B+ is 500v. Ideal rectifier is the GZ34 for both amps and they are from different builders.

Have you compare the GE 5U4 straight bottle with the 5U4G coke bottle?


----------



## les24preludes

The GE 5U4 straight bottle and the 5U4/VT-244 coke bottle are both good. Different makes and different anode structures. There are a few different types of construction - long plates versus medium plates, smooth versus ribbed etc. It's up to what your ears tell you!


----------



## UntilThen

I hear the GZ34 as linear and tight. Cossor 53ku fat bottle is the warmest to my ears. I like it though. Next is the GZ32. U52 has a very good sweet tone and clean. Only a touch of warmth. Other than that what I hear must be influence by the driver and power tubes. I am still trying to make out 5u4g because the tube amp is less than a month old.


----------



## RobertSM

UntilThen said:


> I hear the GZ34 as linear and tight. Cossor 53ku fat bottle is the warmest to my ears. I like it though. Next is the GZ32. U52 has a very good sweet tone and clean. Only a touch of warmth. Other than that what I hear must be influence by the driver and power tubes. I am still trying to make out 5u4g because the tube amp is less than a month old.



We hear very similarly. I agree with your assessment of the above mentioned rectifiers.


----------



## HPAholic

I found these hiding ...

Amperex 5AR4 / GZ34 | 1966 | F32 B6D3 Blackburn Factory 
Philips Miniwatt GZ34 Metal Base | 1957 | TV2 57A
Crossor 53KU | 1948-1958 | Brown Base with Yellow Lettering


----------



## UntilThen

Very noice


----------



## Monsterzero

Dumb question:

Is the adaptor for the Raytheon 1641 the same needed for the 596 USAF?


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> Dumb question:
> 
> Is the adaptor for the Raytheon 1641 the same needed for the 596 USAF?



Unfortunately, no.


----------



## Monsterzero

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, no.


That blows! Woo wants $150.00 (!!!) for just the adapter.


----------



## gibosi

Monsterzero said:


> That blows! Woo wants $150.00 (!!!) for just the adapter.



I use inexpensive Chinese-made adapters for the 596 and the 1641 off of eBay and they work fine.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im not sure the Chinese adapters will fit in my DACs chassis....


----------



## les24preludes

Given that the U52 is one of the most expensive and well received 5U4 types, I'm asking myself what makes it special? They are recognisable by their rounded base, but it's surely the anode structure and the rest of the internals that makes the difference. The Marconi has a long flat smooth plate with serrations and 4 square holes on the inside. That seems common to the other U52 types like Brimar, GEC and Osram. 

So what other 5U4 varieties use this anode type? The RCA 5U4 and 5Z3 does for instance, though by all accounts it's a pretty mid-range performer. I have a no-name 5Z3 with this smooth anode and that sounds very nice. 

Another anode type is a smooth plate with serrations on both sides - internal and external. I have a GE 5U4 straight bottle which sounds very nice - clean and clear. 

The WE 244A is completely different - don't know if there are any clones of that one.

As you can see, I'm trying to crack the code here to see if it's possible to buy a 5U4/5Z3 for £30 that sounds like a £300 one. Well...if it were that easy everyone would be doing it. But I suspect there's some degree of mythology about vintage tubes. Any rectifier with a rounded bottom fetches a tidy sum of money.


----------



## gibosi (Oct 16, 2021)

les24preludes said:


> Given that the U52 is one of the most expensive and well received 5U4 types, I'm asking myself what makes it special? They are recognisable by their rounded base, but it's surely the anode structure and the rest of the internals that makes the difference. The Marconi has a long flat smooth plate with serrations and 4 square holes on the inside. That seems common to the other U52 types like Brimar, GEC and Osram.
> 
> So what other 5U4 varieties use this anode type? The RCA 5U4 and 5Z3 does for instance, though by all accounts it's a pretty mid-range performer. I have a no-name 5Z3 with this smooth anode and that sounds very nice.
> 
> ...



In my experience the only variable that directly correlates to "sound" is the factory. A great example is the GZ34. Even though GZ34 manufactured at about the same time in Mullard's factory, M.B.L.E. (Mazda) Bruxelles, Belgium factory, Sittard, Holland factory and Eindhoven, Holland factory have substantially identical construction, they all sound different. Further, the GZ32, GZ33, GZ34 and GZ37, all made by Mullard, with different construction, sound very similar. So to my way of thinking there is a "Mullard House Sound",  an "RCA House Sound", a "GEC House Sound" and so forth.

So the only way to find another rectifier that sounds like the U52 is to find another one made by GEC. But unfortunately, the only other GEC rectifier I am aware of with similar specifications is the U18. But this is a 4-volt rectifier on a B-4 base, so it is not plug compatible. And as you can see, it is very different than the U52, but it sounds essentially the same. 



Oh. the "other U52" you reference, Brimar, GEC and Osram, were all made in the same Hammersmith, London factory, as the Marconi. They are the same exact tubes with different branding.


----------



## RobertSM

Here's an interesting one.

I picked this 5AR4/GZ34 metal base up in June or July this year from a guy in Canada. I paid $200 CAD for it. 

The label says "Rogers". I know Rogers is a Canadian communications company. The stamp on the bottom of the metal band reads "TV2 57E". The person I bought it from said he owned it for 30+ years and never used it. He thinks it's a Holland made GZ34 but wasn't sure of the factory. I sort of took a bit of a chance as the seller had no test measurements. That said I know that the metal base GZ34 rectifier are known to have incredibly long lives. Sometimes working for many many decades and still test well.

If anyone has any information that would help me identify what factory produced this tube, I'd be especially thankful.


----------



## gibosi

RobertSM said:


> Here's an interesting one.
> 
> I picked this 5AR4/GZ34 metal base up in June or July this year from a guy in Canada. I paid $200 CAD for it.
> 
> ...



All the metal base GZ34's were manufactured in Eindoven, Holland. The number "5" is the factory symbol for that factory. And I would say you got a pretty good deal. Enjoy!


----------



## RobertSM

gibosi said:


> All the metal base GZ34's were manufactured in Eindoven, Holland. The number "5" is the factory symbol for that factory. And I would say you got a pretty good deal. Enjoy!



Thanks @gibosi 

Yep, this rectifier works great and sounds fantastic. Great depth of soundstage with loads of 3-D realism.


----------



## UntilThen

RobertSM said:


> I picked this 5AR4/GZ34 metal base up in June or July this year from a guy in Canada. I paid $200 CAD for it.
> 
> The label says "Rogers". I know Rogers is a Canadian communications company. The stamp on the bottom of the metal band reads "TV2 57E". The person I bought it from said he owned it for 30+ years and never used it. He thinks it's a Holland made GZ34 but wasn't sure of the factory. I sort of took a bit of a chance as the seller had no test measurements. That said I know that the metal base GZ34 rectifier are known to have incredibly long lives. Sometimes working for many many decades and still test well.
> 
> If anyone has any information that would help me identify what factory produced this tube, I'd be especially thankful.



Have a look at this. http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo GZ34/GZ34.htm

Mine is TV1 and my good friend sold it to me for $200  That's aussie dollars.  You're right that these rectifiers have incredibly long life. There it is sitting in Odyssey.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> That blows! Woo wants $150.00 (!!!) for just the adapter.


Why not ask Dan to make one for you?


----------



## attmci

There is a WE 274b on sale at the bay. Anyone want it?


----------



## RobertSM

I've actually never never heard the WE 274B. But I have heard and have owned the WE 422A which I wasn't a fan of in my applications. 

I do however love the U52, the Cossor 53KU fat bottle, and the GZ34 metal base. I would personally rate the U52 and GZ34 metal base tied for number one, and the Cossor 53KU fat bottle as number three.


----------



## RobertSM

This is my "daily driver" GZ34 metal base that I'm running in the Studio Six.

It's labeled and acid etched as a "Adzam"(Mazda spelled backwards), and has date codes of RS1 54J.


----------



## Ranger Ron

RobertSM said:


> This is my "daily driver" GZ34 metal base that I'm running in the Studio Six.
> 
> It's labeled and acid etched as a "Adzam"(Mazda spelled backwards), and has date codes of RS1 54J.





RobertSM said:


> I've actually never never heard the WE 274B. But I have heard and have owned the WE 422A which I wasn't a fan of in my applications.
> 
> I do however love the U52, the Cossor 53KU fat bottle, and the GZ34 metal base. I would personally rate the U52 and GZ34 metal base tied for number one, and the Cossor 53KU fat bottle as number three.


I couldn’t agree more. My Decware zp3 sounds glorious with either 53KU or U52. Fantastic tubes.


----------



## mourip

MIKELAP said:


> I own a couple 596 rectifiers  how much are they going for these days?



Sorry to reply so late but for those who have tried this tube how would you rate/describe it sonically?

It certainly has large cool factor but given it's rising cost I would like to know more about it's sound.

Thanks!


----------



## attmci

RobertSM said:


> I've actually never never heard the WE 274B. But I have heard and have owned the WE 422A which I wasn't a fan of in my applications.
> 
> I do however love the U52, the Cossor 53KU fat bottle, and the GZ34 metal base. I would personally rate the U52 and GZ34 metal base tied for number one, and the Cossor 53KU fat bottle as number three.


Ur WE422A must be a fake. JK

Does the guy purchased it from you like it?


----------



## attmci

mourip said:


> Sorry to reply so late but for those who have tried this tube how would you rate/describe it sonically?
> 
> It certainly has large cool factor but given it's rising cost I would like to know more about it's sound.
> 
> Thanks!


$20 if you don't like it.

Priceless if you love it.


----------



## RobertSM

Definitely not fake. 

These aren't like Nikes or Louis Vuitton. You can't just fake these.

I just didn't like it. I thought it had a tinny quality in the upper mids and highs. I definitely have other rectifiers I prefer way way more. In my book if it's doesn't work for me then it's time to move on.


----------



## attmci

Monsterzero said:


> That blows! Woo wants $150.00 (!!!) for just the adapter.


The Chinese one are fine. 

I believe I have only one. Otherwise I can give u one to try. BTW, the 596 is a better tube (vs the GE/Raytheon 1641).


----------



## attmci (Nov 6, 2021)

RobertSM said:


> Definitely not fake.
> 
> These aren't like Nikes or Louis Vuitton. You can't just fake these.
> 
> I just didn't like it. I thought it had a tinny quality in the upper mids and highs. I definitely have other rectifiers I prefer way way more. In my book if it's doesn't work for me then it's time to move on.


Sell it. Then you can buy two of those rec. tubes you like!

All my 422A are NIB, it's my reference tube. I do enjoy the other tubes you likes, btw. I haven't put the metal base GZ34 in my amp for more than two years.


----------



## attmci

attmci said:


> Sell it. Then you can buy two of those rec. tubes you like!
> 
> All my 422A are NIB, it's my reference tube. I do enjoy the other tubes you likes, btw. I haven't put the metal base GZ34 in my amp for more than two years.  Time to revisit?



I haven't put the HD-650 on my head for more than a year, today, I got a new 596 to test. So I use it as a "sacrificing" headphone. Wow, it sounds great!


----------



## RobertSM (Nov 6, 2021)

Already sold.

I don't have anything against that tube. But in my application I had better options.

I prefer the GZ34 metal base and the Osram U52 and the Cossor 53KU(fat bottle) more. My main headphone amp, the ALO Studio Six was actually designed for the 5AR4/GZ34 so it's an easy decision on what to run in that amp.


----------



## UntilThen

RobertSM said:


> Already sold.
> 
> I don't have anything against that tube. But in my application I had better options.
> 
> I prefer the GZ34 metal base and the Osram U52 and the Cossor 53KU(fat bottle) more. My main headphone amp, the ALO Studio Six was actually designed for the 5AR4/GZ34 so it's an easy decision on what to run in that amp.



I agree. I had the Studio Six before and had run all 3 of those rectifiers you mentioned above and to my ears, the GZ34 is still the best in that amp. U52 came very close there.


----------



## gibosi

RobertSM said:


> Definitely not fake.
> 
> These aren't like Nikes or Louis Vuitton. You can't just fake these.
> 
> I just didn't like it. I thought it had a tinny quality in the upper mids and highs. I definitely have other rectifiers I prefer way way more. In my book if it's doesn't work for me then it's time to move on.



To all the newbies reading this, this is a very good lesson. Don't believe all the hype regarding this tube or any other. There is no "super" rectifier that is best in all amps with all drivers and output tubes. But it does seem that some people believe that the more a rectifier costs the better it sounds! However, while the 422A is certainly a very good rectifier, it can sound lousy in some systems. So I would advice not spending a small fortune on this tube unless you know for sure it will sound great in your system.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> To all the newbies reading this, this is a very good lesson. Don't believe all the hype regarding this tube or any other. There is no "super" rectifier that is best in all amps with all drivers and output tubes. But it does seem that some people believe that the more a rectifier costs the better it sounds! However, while the 422A is certainly a very good rectifier, it can sound lousy in some systems. So I would advice not spending a small fortune on this tube unless you know for sure it will sound great in your system.


I encourage everyone to give it a try. If you don't pay crazy money on the rare tube, you can always get your investment back.


----------



## UntilThen

I use this cheap Russian 5C4S / 5Z4G / CV1863 rectifier in my 300b amp.


----------



## jhljhl

For those interested, I have Western Electric 274A tubes for sale in the classifieds (includes 274b adapters).


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 13, 2021)

Just got this Marconi U52 from a local seller but the look deviates from what I search online. Would anyone please take a look for me and advise whether it is faked one?


----------



## Monsterzero

lumdicks said:


> Just got this Marconi U52 from a local seller but the look deviates from what I search online. Would anyone please take a look for me and advise whether it is faked one?


I'm sorry to say, but im pretty sure that is a Russian fake. I believe only Russian tubes have the saucer shaped getter, which you can see in the bottom photo, but im certainly not an expert.


----------



## RobertSM

lumdicks said:


> Just got this Marconi U52 from a local seller but the look deviates from what I search online. Would anyone please take a look for me and advise whether it is faked one?


A bunch of differences. Look at the plate shape and structure.


----------



## spyder1

lumdicks said:


> Just got this Marconi U52 from a local seller but the look deviates from what I search online. Would anyone please take a look for me and advise whether it is faked one?



Study the tube structure! IMO, you have a Marconi U52 labeled Russian 5U3C.


----------



## gibosi

lumdicks said:


> Just got this Marconi U52 from a local seller but the look deviates from what I search online. Would anyone please take a look for me and advise whether it is faked one?



I wouldn't call it a "fake". Yes, it was manufactured in Russia, but back in the day, it was very common for one company to source tubes from another company, put their name on it, and sell it. If it truly was a "fake" the seller would have spent considerable time and energy to make it look like the real thing.

So as others have said, you can't trust the text and graphics printed on the tube. You will have to spend some time comparing a real Marconi U52 to a Russian Svetlana 5Ц3С and the differences will become very obvious.

Good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Russian Svetlana 5Ц3С



That's what it is. When Tomas make Odyssey for me, he tested it with a 5Ц3С which I think is a 5U4G equivalent. I should buy one and try it.


----------



## lumdicks

Thanks all for the advices.


----------



## Ranger Ron

lumdicks said:


> Thanks all for the advices.


I think for the price those Ruskie rectifiers can be had they are decent value. In my modified Dynaco amps they do a great job.


----------



## gibosi

UntilThen said:


> That's what it is. When Tomas make Odyssey for me, he tested it with a 5Ц3С which I think is a 5U4G equivalent. I should buy one and try it.



And I agree with @Ranger Ron . It's a decent rectifier. And it's a bit dark so you might want to use it in a brighter system.


----------



## lumdicks

gibosi said:


> And I agree with @Ranger Ron . It's a decent rectifier. And it's a bit dark so you might want to use it in a brighter system.


Exactly what I found that this tube has a dark signature with very low noise. Resolution and imaging are fair but it sounds decently in a system with synergy.


----------



## gkg2k

This should be a genuine black plate / brown base GEC U52, made in England. In my system it's second (by a large margin though) to the black plate / black base Cossor 53KU only.









































Gianluca


----------



## gkg2k

lumdicks said:


> Just got this Marconi U52 from a local seller but the look deviates from what I search online. Would anyone please take a look for me and advise whether it is faked one?



IMHO this tube shows features that are compatible with a definition of fake. Why to label it U52? It's totally different.


----------



## lumdicks

Just got a top quality NOS WE274A at a reasonable (comparative) price. Still need a bit time to burn it but out of the box the sound is out of this world. Tonality is perfect with sweet but not lush mid, smooth and extended high and amazing bass. It outperforms my Sylvania and KR Audio 274B with a great margin, and I have a great difficulty to swap it with other tube again.

Amp: Woo Audio WA22 SE
Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
Drivers: Mullard ECC32
Power: Western Electric 421A


----------



## gkg2k

lumdicks said:


> Just got a top quality NOS WE274A at a reasonable (comparative) price. Still need a bit time to burn it but out of the box the sound is out of this world. Tonality is perfect with sweet but not lush mid, smooth and extended high and amazing bass. It outperforms my Sylvania and KR Audio 274B with a great margin, and I have a great difficulty to swap it with other tube again.
> 
> Amp: Woo Audio WA22 SE
> Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
> ...


Congratulations! I've never had the luck to listen to it...


----------



## cpcat (Nov 16, 2021)

Congrats - I don’t think you need the adapter btw.  You might confirm with Woo first , but on my Lampi it just accepts it with the 5u4G socket and some of the pins are unused.  Just be sure the big /small ones are properly aligned.

edit: this is wrong- an adapter is required, sorry. 
I am mistaken on this and I apologize - use the adapter and be sure to ok with the manufacturer of your amp.  I was thinking of the 4 pin versions of the 274b replicas -ie psvane acme a274b -which apparently don’t require any adapter but are drop in for the 5u4g socket.


----------



## lumdicks

cpcat said:


> Congrats - I don’t think you need the adapter btw.  You might confirm with Woo first , but on my Lampi it just accepts it with the 5u4G socket and some of the pins are unused.  Just be sure the big /small ones are properly aligned.


Thanks. Is there any pin orientation of the 274A when using the adaptor?


----------



## RobertSM

lumdicks said:


> Just got a top quality NOS WE274A at a reasonable (comparative) price. Still need a bit time to burn it but out of the box the sound is out of this world. Tonality is perfect with sweet but not lush mid, smooth and extended high and amazing bass. It outperforms my Sylvania and KR Audio 274B with a great margin, and I have a great difficulty to swap it with other tube again.
> 
> Amp: Woo Audio WA22 SE
> Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
> ...


How do you like this combination of tubes in your amp?


----------



## Ranger Ron

lumdicks said:


> Thanks. Is there any pin orientation of the 274A when using the adaptor?


I’ve often wondered the same thing…


----------



## UntilThen

lumdicks said:


> Amp: Woo Audio WA22 SE
> Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
> Drivers: Mullard ECC32
> Power: Western Electric 421A



Congrats. The tubes cost more than the amp. I still have the WA22 but it's not being used. 28th Sept 2021 is the last time I power it on and that's just to compare it with Odyssey.


----------



## cpcat

cpcat said:


> Congrats - I don’t think you need the adapter btw.  You might confirm with Woo first , but on my Lampi it just accepts it with the 5u4G socket and some of the pins are unused.  Just be sure the big /small ones are properly aligned.


I am mistaken on this and I apologize - use the adapter and be sure to ok with the manufacturer of your amp.  I was thinking of the 4 pin versions of the 274b replicas -ie psvane acme a274b -which apparently don’t require any adapter but are drop in for the 5u4g socket.


----------



## plb0202

Hi All,

I am trying to figure out what year my "Mighty 596" tubes were manufactured.  Is there a way to determine this from the print and serials on the tubes themselves?













Any help/advice/pointers appreciated, thanks in advance.


----------



## gibosi

plb0202 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am trying to figure out what year my "Mighty 596" tubes were manufactured.  Is there a way to determine this from the print and serials on the tubes themselves?
> 
> ...



7-26 1957, week 26
6-48 1956, week 48


----------



## plb0202

gibosi said:


> 7-26 1957, week 26
> 6-48 1956, week 48


Many Thanks @gibosi


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> 7-26 1957, week 26
> 6-48 1956, week 48


Correct. Later ones will like

6117
1961/17 weeks

BTW, the pack day is on the box as well.


----------



## whirlwind

Yep.


----------



## arftech

Dubstep Girl, thank you for putting this together way back when.  

I settled on the Sophia 274B as recommended by Mike from WooAudio.  These are an upgrade from the stock tubes that came with my WA5 and I’m impressed with their performance.  They’re just better sounding versus the stock ones and I’m quite happy with how my amp sounds. 

 Dubstep Girl, kudos to you for all that you do for us headphone listeners.💯


----------



## gibosi

mpv said:


> Hello,
> Someone help me find out manufacturing date (LM 4) for this U52 tube,please.



GEC used the British Common Valve date coding system. The first letter is the year. "A" = 1945 and the letters "I" and "O" were not used. So "L" is 1955 (if I haven't made a mistake counting on my fingers. 

And the second letter is the month. And as you might expect, "A" equals January and the letter "I" was not used. So "M" is December. 

The significance of the number "4" is not known to me. But I suspect it might be the number of the factory the tube was manufacture in.


----------



## gibosi

Well, I'm warning you, this is a little crazy... lol  



These are very difficult to photograph as they are "Chrome Domes" down to within an inch of the base. Highly reflective. The Rectron R250 and the Valvo 1701 are the same tube, but perhaps manufactured 5 years apart. Philips didn't acquire Valvo until about 1932, so they created the Rectron brand to sell these tubes in Germany in the late 1920's.

Anyway, these rectifiers were manufactured in the late 1920's and early to mid 1930's. These were manufactured by Philips, likely in Eindhoven, Holland. And instead of 5 volt rectifiers, these are 1.8 volt rectifiers. In order to run these in a 5U4G socket it is necessary to cobble together an external power supply and then an adapter to convert a European 4-pin B4 base to 8-pin octal. Further the adapter allows the connection to the external power supply.

And when I say, cobble, I mean crude! lol   First, a computer laptop power supply to provide the necessary DC current.



And then you need a cheap DC-DC Buck step-down converter to drop the 19 volts out of the power supply down to 1.8 volts. (Please excuse my mess! lol )



And it sounds great! 



(For the curious, there are four Tung-Sol 6BX7 output tubes and a pair of Hungarian Tungsram EL41 drivers. )


----------



## plb0202

gibosi said:


> Well, I'm warning you, this is a little crazy... lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep completely nuts!!!  And here I am worrying about rolling in a USAF 596....


----------



## gibosi

plb0202 said:


> Yep completely nuts!!!  And here I am worrying about rolling in a USAF 596....



And yes, "I resemble that remark! Completely nuts"! lol.  In fact, these are not even "vacuum" tubes. They are gas-filled, and the gas is Argon, an inert gas, lol


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> Well, I'm warning you, this is a little crazy... lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great looking tubes, but yeah, completely nuts


----------



## plb0202

I have recently purchased a 5U4G Mullard black base, d getter 1950’s rectifier. The tube looks fantastic. I have attempted to use it once in my WA22 and it blew the fuse in what could only be described as a violent explosion. The fuse disintegrated. The rectifier socket on the WA22 is labelled 5U4G and it’s listed as a supported tube type by Woo Audio according to this Doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml

I have since had the tube tested and it has reported as healthy. Wondering how I troubleshoot this moving forward and what the issue may be. Any help appreciated.


----------



## gibosi

plb0202 said:


> I have recently purchased a 5U4G Mullard black base, d getter 1950’s rectifier. The tube looks fantastic. I have attempted to use it once in my WA22 and it blew the fuse in what could only be described as a violent explosion. The fuse disintegrated. The rectifier socket on the WA22 is labelled 5U4G and it’s listed as a supported tube type by Woo Audio according to this Doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml
> 
> I have since had the tube tested and it has reported as healthy. Wondering how I troubleshoot this moving forward and what the issue may be. Any help appreciated.



The tube tests good but it shorted out in your amp? This is a mystery! Is there anyone else close to you with a similar amp who might be brave enough to try it?

Also, I'd be very curious to see a picture of this rectifier. A 5U4G carrying the Mullard label could have been manufactured elsewhere. Those that I have seen have been American or GEC. And some have been the older 4-volt Mullard FW 4/500 with a 5-volt heater swapped in.

Good luck!


----------



## plb0202 (Dec 16, 2021)

gibosi said:


> The tube tests good but it shorted out in your amp? This is a mystery! Is there anyone else close to you with a similar amp who might be brave enough to try it?
> 
> Also, I'd be very curious to see a picture of this rectifier. A 5U4G carrying the Mullard label could have been manufactured elsewhere. Those that I have seen have been American or GEC. And some have been the older 4-volt Mullard FW 4/500 with a 5-volt heater swapped in.
> 
> Good luck!


The plot thickens,  I have now tried a total of three rectifiers, 2 USAF 596 and the Mullard (and two WA22).  All show the same behaviour.  I used the first USAF 596 in the first amp for a few weeks before it blew the fuse as I attempted to move the amp into Pre-Amp mode.  I took it back to the shop where and the amp was replaced.  The 2nd USAF I had in the 2nd amp over the last 3 days and this morning, boom, the fuse blew as I powered the amp on for the first time.  Replaced the fuse and powered the amp on successfully without any change to the same config that blew the fuse two minutes before hand.  Scratching my head now as I am new to tube amps and not really knowing here to go from here.


----------



## Monsterzero

Semi educated guess, but it sounds like the amp might have some issues


----------



## gibosi

Well your Mullard 5U4G was manufactured by British Tungsram. The top mica is very unique.

And yes, your predicament is very strange. The same thing happened with two different amps! 

First, although not likely, make sure your fuses are actually 3.15A slow blow. If they are rated for less, that could be the cause. But again, two amps from the same shop, I think it is unlikely. The next thing that comes to mind is the power coming into your home. If there are surges or spikes, that could be a cause.

If the problem continues, given that your amp is brand new, ask if the shop would be willing send a technician to your house to check everything out. And good luck!


----------



## plb0202

gibosi said:


> Well your Mullard 5U4G was manufactured by British Tungsram. The top mica is very unique.
> 
> And yes, your predicament is very strange. The same thing happened with two different amps!
> 
> ...


Thanks @gibosi The fuses are 3.15A ceramic slow blow and align with the Amps requirements documented near the fuse itself on the amp.   I have moved beyond the rectifier blame game that was occurring and believe something else is happening here.


----------



## u2u2

My Gen 1 WA6 and Gen 1 WA22 both blew their original fuses... Went to The Source and got cheap made in Taiwan replacements and no issue in years of use since. I suggest switch fuse brands, roll in the original tubes, and measure the power consumption. A Gen 1 WA22 draws about 102 watts. (sample size one - mine!) Way under the fuse rating. These are reliable amps and rectifiers so it is probably a (too) simple issue. Can't hurt to email Woo for their thoughts. They are responsive and helpful.


----------



## plb0202

u2u2 said:


> My Gen 1 WA6 and Gen 1 WA22 both blew their original fuses... Went to The Source and got cheap made in Taiwan replacements and no issue in years of use since. I suggest switch fuse brands, roll in the original tubes, and measure the power consumption. A Gen 1 WA22 draws about 102 watts. (sample size one - mine!) Way under the fuse rating. These are reliable amps and rectifiers so it is probably a (too) simple issue. Can't hurt to email Woo for their thoughts. They are responsive and helpful.


Thanks @u2u2   I have been discussing the fuse problem with Woo for the last few months. They are responsive and attempting to help. Trying many things. I am at the point now, 5 fuse pops, 3 different rectifiers, two power chords and on the second amp later, where I don’t know what to do.  The amp will fire up one day without issue and blow the fuse two days later.


----------



## jonathan c

I have been using the 3.15A slow-blow SR Purples in WA2, WA6, and WA6SE with no issues and _much _musical enjoyment…


----------



## plb0202

jonathan c said:


> slow-blow SR Purples


Nice fuse!  I might go down this path once I have figured out the root cause.  I wouldnt want to have blown five of these


----------



## mpv

Does anybody know what means code R71 - B8H,please ?
Thanks


----------



## gibosi

You are looking at the Philips Production Code for this tube. (Mullard was a subsidiary company)

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf

R7 = GZ32
1 = revision number
B= Blackburn, a Mullard factory
8 = 1958
H = August

So now you know the tube type, where it was manufactured and the date of manufacture.


----------



## jonathan c

plb0202 said:


> Nice fuse!  I might go down this path once I have figured out the root cause.  I wouldnt want to have blown five of these


Do you have the Woo plugged into any power conditioner? For example, I use a Furman Elite-15i into which is plugged the CD transport, the DAC, the Woo WA2 (or WA6 or WA6SE). The Furman also protects from surges etc.


----------



## mpv

gibosi said:


> You are looking at the Philips Production Code for this tube. (Mullard was a subsidiary company)
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot "gibosi"


----------



## plb0202

jonathan c said:


> Do you have the Woo plugged into any power conditioner? For example, I use a Furman Elite-15i into which is plugged the CD transport, the DAC, the Woo WA2 (or WA6 or WA6SE). The Furman also protects from surges etc.



There is no power conditioning in place at this stage.  I have been considering this.  I am in Australia where we run 240V mains and I have no issues with my other audio kit, solid state amps, pre's, dacs etc.  Have a voltage meter on the way so I can monitor and check the mains supply to the Woo to see if there is an over supply that may be causing this.  It fired up this morning without blowing the fuse and tripping the circuit breaker in that part of the house.


----------



## Monsterzero

plb0202 said:


> There is no power conditioning in place at this stage.  I have been considering this.  I am in Australia where we run 240V mains and I have no issues with my other audio kit, solid state amps, pre's, dacs etc.  Have a voltage meter on the way so I can monitor and check the mains supply to the Woo to see if there is an over supply that may be causing this.  It fired up this morning without blowing the fuse and tripping the circuit breaker in that part of the house.


dumb question, but do you have the amp set to 240v instead of 110?


----------



## jonathan c

Monsterzero said:


> dumb question, but do you have the amp set to 240v instead of 110?


I think the switch is for 230 / 115…But still, is 240v on a consistent basis too much for a 230v setting?…🤷🏻


----------



## jonathan c

plb0202 said:


> There is no power conditioning in place at this stage.  I have been considering this.  I am in Australia where we run 240V mains and I have no issues with my other audio kit, solid state amps, pre's, dacs etc.  Have a voltage meter on the way so I can monitor and check the mains supply to the Woo to see if there is an over supply that may be causing this.  It fired up this morning without blowing the fuse and tripping the circuit breaker in that part of the house.


Also, something like the Furman will tell you the voltage coming through continuously.


----------



## plb0202

jonathan c said:


> Also, something like the Furman will tell you the voltage coming through continuously.


Thanks @jonathan c  Yes the Amp is set to the correct voltage.  Some days its OK and somedays it blows...without changing anything in its config...maddening really


----------



## plb0202 (Dec 21, 2021)

I have been monitoring my power supply voltage from the mains. It moves around between 246 and 252V (Australia) I contacted Woo and they have indicated this is too high for the amps stock power tubes and this may be the issue.  Hopefully we are getting to the bottom of the behaviour. Wanted to post the progress somewhere in case others run into a similar problem.  Power regenerator looks like the way forward.


----------



## David222 (Dec 23, 2021)

I've been rolling through Dubstep Girls's comparison list with my new Woo Audio WA6.  As many have noted in this thread, the GZ34 is fantastic. Was able to acquire an f31 / 1950s from Brent Jessee. Certainly curious  what the metal base adds beyond


----------



## gibosi

David222 said:


> I've been rolling through Dubstep Girls's comparison list with my new Woo Audio WA6.  As many have noted in this thread, the GZ34 is fantastic. Was able to acquire an f31 / 1950s from Brent Jessee. Certainly curious  what the metal base adds beyond



There were three different black base GZ34 manufactured by Philips. After Philips ceased making the metal GZ34 in Eindhoven, Holland, in 1957, these black-base tubes were manufactured in Sittard, Holland (factory code X), Blackburn, Great Britain, Mullard (factory code B) and Brussels, Belgium, MBLE Mazda (factory code L). And of course all these sound different. So the question is, which one do you have?


----------



## plb0202

gibosi said:


> There were three different black base GZ34 manufactured by Philips. After Philips ceased making the metal GZ34 in Eindhoven, Holland, in 1957, these black-base tubes were manufactured in Sittard, Holland (factory code X), Blackburn, Great Britain, Mullard (factory code B) and Brussels, Belgium, MBLE Mazda (factory code L). And of course all these sound different. So the question is, which one do you have?


My guess based on some googling is Blackburn given the treble clef on the glass.


----------



## gibosi

Unfortunately, the silk-screened text and logos printed on the side of the glass were mostly about marketing. And tubes branded Amperex with the Bugle Boy logo were destined to be marketed in the US. But it could have been made in any of Philips many factories. So you really can't trust these markings.

What you need to look for is the Philip's production code. Unless it has been rubbed off, it can be found on any Philips tube marketed after around 1948. With respect to GZ34, the early tubes had the code printed on the bottom of the base around the pins. Later tubes had the code etched into the glass on the side of the tube near the base.

Once you locate the code, you can then use the following document to tell you what kind of the tube it is (useful if the tube name has been rubbed off), where the tube was manufactured, and the date.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf

For example, a GZ34 manufactured in Sittard, Holland in 1957 = f30 X7L

f3 = GZ34
0 = revision number
X = Sittard, the factory
7 = 1957
L = November

Have fun!


----------



## leftside

gibosi said:


> There were three different black base GZ34 manufactured by Philips. After Philips ceased making the metal GZ34 in Eindhoven, Holland, in 1957, these black-base tubes were manufactured in Sittard, Holland (factory code X), Blackburn, Great Britain, Mullard (factory code B) and Brussels, Belgium, MBLE Mazda (factory code L). And of course all these sound different. So the question is, which one do you have?


Interesting. Something very similar happened with Philips in 1957 with the metal base EL34 also made in Eindhoven. And then the brown base and black base XF1EL34 tubes were made also in Blackburn, Brussels and Sittard. Very different tube construction in the Blackburn factory compared to the Brussels and Sittard factories though.


----------



## David222

gibosi said:


> There were three different black base GZ34 manufactured by Philips. After Philips ceased making the metal GZ34 in Eindhoven, Holland, in 1957, these black-base tubes were manufactured in Sittard, Holland (factory code X), Blackburn, Great Britain, Mullard (factory code B) and Brussels, Belgium, MBLE Mazda (factory code L). And of course all these sound different. So the question is, which one do you have?



*X8L*


----------



## plb0202

David222 said:


> *X8L*


The last time I throw caution to the wind and guess!


----------



## leftside

David222 said:


> *X8L*


Sittard 1958.


----------



## lumdicks

Does anyone have any idea of this Marconi Mesh Plate U52?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25368068...w022IXYvpRMOFG13ZwE3_8SBDmZXV6HJRmuU-pGfVv8b0


----------



## gibosi (Dec 26, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Does anyone have any idea of this Marconi Mesh Plate U52?
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253680685333?hash=item3b108c1115:g:Vl8AAOSwikdapV~p&LH_BIN=1&fbclid=IwAR1tWdeJVhbe4Yw022IXYvpRMOFG13ZwE3_8SBDmZXV6HJRmuU-pGfVv8b0



Well, it isn't a U52. GEC owned the trademark on that name and it was applied only to valves manufactured by Marconi / Osram / GEC in Britain. And there appear to be no markings on the glass to indicate what this tube is. So the heater voltage and current are unknown. And the output current is unknown. As the vendor states, this valve was manufactured in Italy by Italian Marconi. Further, it appears that British Marconi and Italian Marconi shared the same name, but not much else. And except for certain tube collectors with very fat wallets, this tube certainly isn't worth $5,000. lol


----------



## jonathan c

gibosi said:


> Well, it isn't a U52. GEC owned the trademark on that name and it was applied only to valves manufactured by Marconi / Osram / GEC in Britain. And there appear to be no markings on the glass to indicate what this tube is. So the heater voltage and current are unknown. And the output current is unknown. As the vendor states, this valve was manufactured in Italy by Italian Marconi. Further, it appears that British Marconi and Italian Marconi shared the same name, but not much else. And except for certain tube collectors with very fat wallets, this tube certainly isn't worth $5,000. lol


Hey….it’s wege_high_tubes…. “All hands on deck wallet !”


----------



## plb0202

gibosi said:


> Well, it isn't a U52. GEC owned the trademark on that name and it was applied only to valves manufactured by Marconi / Osram / GEC in Britain. And there appear to be no markings on the glass to indicate what this tube is. So the heater voltage and current are unknown. And the output current is unknown. As the vendor states, this valve was manufactured in Italy by Italian Marconi. Further, it appears that British Marconi and Italian Marconi shared the same name, but not much else. And except for certain tube collectors with very fat wallets, this tube certainly isn't worth $5,000. lol


----------



## plb0202

Managed to get to the bottom of the blown fuse behaviour.  The rectifier was not to blame. A higher than anticipated mains power voltage (253V was seen) combined with the stock power tubes looks to be the culprit. The stock power tubes have been out of the picture for a week now and it’s all been smooth sailing.  Wanted to let the forum know in case someone else experiences something similar.


----------



## lumdicks

Just got a WE422A from a Japanese Auction site and it performs exceptionally good despite the fair measurement (46/46 against 40). It sounds even better and quieter than the WE274A in WA22, and it has the perfect match with Mullard ECC32 as input tube and WE421A as output tube, with unparalleled dynamics, smoothness, layering and details retrieval.


----------



## leftside

lumdicks said:


> Just got a WE422A from a Japanese Auction site and it performs exceptionally good despite the fair measurement (46/46 against 40). It sounds even better and quieter than the WE274A in WA22, and it has the perfect match with Mullard ECC32 as input tube and WE421A as output tube, with unparalleled dynamics, smoothness, layering and details retrieval.


I think that's a strong measurement? You are going down a very similar path I went with the WA22. Once you've maxed out the tubes, there is only one place left to go... 

I obtained a tube tester recently, and I'm finding tubes that test at 60% - 70% Gm still work perfectly fine, and still last a very long time in a headphone amp. I actually prefer using tubes in that range as they are cheaper than tubes that test higher or NOS. The "collector side" of me also has a problem using NIB or NOS tubes. But that's my problem haha.


----------



## David222

Acquired another for my new WA6. Lot of fun.


----------



## gibosi

David222 said:


> Acquired another for my new WA6. Lot of fun.



I think American 5U4G are often overlooked here. I like the old RCA, Ken-Rad and National Union rectifiers from the late 1930's.


----------



## lumdicks

leftside said:


> I think that's a strong measurement? You are going down a very similar path I went with the WA22. Once you've maxed out the tubes, there is only one place left to go...
> 
> I obtained a tube tester recently, and I'm finding tubes that test at 60% - 70% Gm still work perfectly fine, and still last a very long time in a headphone amp. I actually prefer using tubes in that range as they are cheaper than tubes that test higher or NOS. The "collector side" of me also has a problem using NIB or NOS tubes. But that's my problem haha.


So true. I am thinking to get another 300B headphone amp but need to sort up the issue of desk space first.......


----------



## leftside

lumdicks said:


> So true. I am thinking to get another 300B headphone amp but need to sort up the issue of desk space first.......


I went to a (Glenn) 300B amp from the WA22. And also a couple of other custom amps from 1101 Audio.


----------



## whirlwind

leftside said:


> I think that's a strong measurement? You are going down a very similar path I went with the WA22. Once you've maxed out the tubes, there is only one place left to go...
> 
> I obtained a tube tester recently, and I'm finding tubes that test at 60% - 70% Gm still work perfectly fine, and still last a very long time in a headphone amp. I actually prefer using tubes in that range as they are cheaper than tubes that test higher or NOS. The "collector side" of me also has a problem using NIB or NOS tubes. But that's my problem haha.



So true. Tubes last a lot longer life than what most give them credit for.


----------



## leftside

whirlwind said:


> So true. Tubes last a lot longer life than what most give them credit for.


And they are nicely burnt in, and you don't worry too much if they do die. Although I've had very, very few tubes die on me. Received a few dodgy ones though!


----------



## mourip

Any love for the Sophia 274B Aqua? I put one in my Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC and it is currently in first place ahead of some good NOS 4 pin and 8 pin NOS tubes...


----------



## David222

mourip said:


> Any love for the Sophia 274B Aqua? I put one in my Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC and it is currently in first place ahead of some good NOS 4 pin and 8 pin NOS tubes...



I believe @ColSaulTigh recently rolled one. Mentioned over in the Woo Audio WA6 + WA6SE thread...in comparison to a United 596


----------



## ColSaulTigh

David222 said:


> I believe @ColSaulTigh recently rolled one. Mentioned over in the Woo Audio WA6 + WA6SE thread...in comparison to a United 596


I have the clear Sophia (same bulb except for the glass) and I'm currently A-Bing it against a USAF 596.  I think the Sophia presents toastier, with much better bass and warmth.  The USAF is much cleaner and does better with the high end, but lacks warmth.


----------



## attmci

Who beat me on a pair of GE gl1641?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-GL1641-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## gibosi

Somebody got a very good deal! But it wasn't me.


----------



## David222 (Feb 22, 2022)

Was browsing the world-wide-web late night.... I've been enjoying the Brimar 5R4GY sound signature .... thought the KB/FB was interesting so picked up another


----------



## gibosi (Mar 19, 2022)

Has anyone compared the Raytheon and the General Electronics 1641 rectifier?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I might have a slight rectifier problem....


----------



## gibosi

ColSaulTigh said:


> I might have a slight rectifier problem....



The only problem I see is that you don't have enough! lol


----------



## jonathan c

gibosi said:


> The only problem I see is that you don't have enough! lol


….he will have to rectify the situation 🤣😖👎


----------



## RobertSM

ColSaulTigh said:


> I might have a slight rectifier problem....



That's a good start.


----------



## jbua5150

My slight issue is……
The box is full.   Hehe 😉


----------



## Thaddy

Recently picked up a Mullard Amperex NOS 5AR4.  This is the first 5AR4 I've tried, and I was quite surprised how small they are!  The seller described it as Type F32, 4 notch, with a 1963 (B3G1) date code.  The graphics are very cool on this one, just like my Bugle Boy 6DJ8's I still have.  My WA22 has never been dead silent, but with the new iFi GND Defender and this rectifier, it's about as quiet as it's ever been.


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 6, 2022)

The GZ34/5AR4 is an outstanding tube. I run a metal base version in my studio six with fantastic results.

Here's a great reference page for the GZ34/5AR4 rectifier that does a very good job of explaining the production years and differences.

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo GZ34/GZ34.htm

Enjoy your new 5AR4!


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 6, 2022)

Is anyone running the German made Elrog 5U4G?

If so, please share your impressions.


----------



## David222

Thaddy said:


> Recently picked up a Mullard Amperex NOS 5AR4.  This is the first 5AR4 I've tried, and I was quite surprised how small they are!  The seller described it as Type F32, 4 notch, with a 1963 (B3G1) date code.  The graphics are very cool on this one, just like my Bugle Boy 6DJ8's I still have.  My WA22 has never been dead silent, but with the new iFi GND Defender and this rectifier, it's about as quiet as it's ever been.




I agree with Robert, 5AR4 is a great tube!  I could be wrong...but always fun to try...I believe your tube is Philips made:

B = Blackburn
3 = 63'
G = July
1 = First week 

@gibosi or others on the thread, might correct my attempt if/when they have a moment.


I have a Phillips / f31 / 1958 Sittard. Absolutely wonderful.


----------



## leftside (Mar 6, 2022)

David222 said:


> I agree with Robert, 5AR4 is a great tube!  I could be wrong...but always fun to try...I believe your tube is Philips made:
> 
> B = Blackburn
> 3 = 63'
> ...


Philips had purchased Mullard by then, but as the tube was made in the British Blackburn factory under the Mullard name, then it is considered Mullard 

I also really like tubes from the Sittard factory from the 1958 era. I have some brown base top DD getter EL34 that I really like.


----------



## VanHai

Any opinions or information about these tubes, they are Mullard 5v4g. I have them coming next week, thanks.


----------



## jbua5150

Ok beginner question here.  
I have observed a slight blue pulse in my rectifier upon powering up my amps.
It is very brief, after I hear the amp click on.
I have seen this on different rectifiers (Sophia, 596, CV711 and others),
and on 3 different amps WA22 and 2 separate WA6SE.
Am I correct to assume since this behavior has manifested across several configurations that its normal?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

1) I have not seen a blue flash on any of my rectifiers.  It's possible they might be sparking, but unlikely.  Any chance you can take a video so we can see what you're referring to?  Is it possible it's the blue power LED blinking that your seeing reflected in the glass?

2) Yes, the Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 that I have makes a click one things have heated up and are operationally ready.

3) Nice collection of rectifiers you've got... Any favorites?

Thanks,
Fred


----------



## gibosi (Mar 12, 2022)

jbua5150 said:


> Ok beginner question here.
> I have observed a slight blue pulse in my rectifier upon powering up my amps.
> It is very brief, after I hear the amp click on.
> I have seen this on different rectifiers (Sophia, 596, CV711 and others),
> ...



I have a different amp (Glenn OTL) and well over 50 different rectifiers, and I have never seen a "slight blue pulse". I wonder if it might be a Woo "feature"?


----------



## mab1376

jbua5150 said:


> Ok beginner question here.
> I have observed a slight blue pulse in my rectifier upon powering up my amps.
> It is very brief, after I hear the amp click on.
> I have seen this on different rectifiers (Sophia, 596, CV711 and others),
> ...


nothing to worry about: https://www.thetubestore.com/blue-glow


----------



## jbua5150

mab1376 said:


> nothing to worry about: https://www.thetubestore.com/blue-glow


I am familiar with the “blue glow”. 
This is not that. 
This is a blue pulse that only happens in the Rectifier and is very brief.   
From my understanding of the “blue glow” is that certain tubes have a faint blue glow that is constant.  They are also not usually rectifiers.  From my basic knowledge.


----------



## jbua5150

ColSaulTigh said:


> 1) I have not seen a blue flash on any of my rectifiers.  It's possible they might be sparking, but unlikely.  Any chance you can take a video so we can see what you're referring to?  Is it possible it's the blue power LED blinking that your seeing reflected in the glass?
> 
> 2) Yes, the Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 that I have makes a click one things have heated up and are operationally ready.
> 
> ...


I will try to capture it on video tonight. 

I enjoy each of the rectifiers, as they all seem to add their own “flavor” to the sound.  
I at first didn’t like the CV717 much, until I paired it with the higher gain 6EM7. For me, this pairing is the best I’ve heard with the CV717. 
The Sophia sounds good with most pairings EXCEPT with the 6EM7.
I struggled for a while to find a rectifier that sounds good with the 6EM7’s.


----------



## jbua5150

@ColSaulTigh 
Of course my phone was not able to capture what I am seeing.  
As I'm not keen on powering on/off unnecessarily, I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jbua5150 said:


> @ColSaulTigh
> Of course my phone was not able to capture what I am seeing.
> As I'm not keen on powering on/off unnecessarily, I'll try again tomorrow.


It's not crucial - what I'm trying to determine is if it's plasma discharge or if it's possibly a glare/reflection from an LED that just happens to be reflecting in the glass.


----------



## jbua5150 (Mar 14, 2022)

I was able to capture the “slight blue pulse” that I see in my rectifiers.
VERY slight, near the end, when the LED stops pulsing.  Near the top of the tube.
It is quite a bit more noticeable in person. 
I uploaded video to YouTube cuz I’m old and don’t know how else to share video here.


----------



## gibosi

jbua5150 said:


> I was able to capture the “slight blue pulse” that I see in my rectifiers.
> VERY slight, near the end, when the LED stops pulsing.  Near the top of the tube.
> It is quite a bit more noticeable in person.
> I uploaded video to YouTube cuz I’m old and don’t know how else to share video here.




Given that it  happens when your LED stops pulsing, I'm inclined to believe that this has something to do with your Woo. I wonder if the Woo preheats the rectifier cathodes and only then applies voltage to the plates. So it might be worth trying to find out what your amp is actually doing while the LED is pulsing. 

Again, in a different amp I have never seen this. And I have more than 50 rectifiers. Further, I strongly suspect that if your rectifiers were installed in my amp, there would be no "blue pulse."


----------



## gibosi

gibosi said:


> Has anyone compared the Raytheon and the General Electronics 1641 rectifier?



Well I finally got a second adapter to facilitate comparing these two 1641, a General Electronics and a Raytheon, and I am not able to discern any significant differences. Granted my ears are old and worn out, but I notice that @Dubstep Girl featured both of these in her comparison, and it appears that she considered them to be the same. And her ears are definitely better than mine.


----------



## jbua5150

gibosi said:


> Given that it  happens when your LED stops pulsing, I'm inclined to believe that this has something to do with your Woo. I wonder if the Woo preheats the rectifier cathodes and only then applies voltage to the plates. So it might be worth trying to find out what your amp is actually doing while the LED is pulsing.
> 
> Again, in a different amp I have never seen this. And I have more than 50 rectifiers. Further, I strongly suspect that if your rectifiers were installed in my amp, there would be no "blue pulse."


It is a very odd occurrence. 
The amps seem to function fine.


----------



## gibosi

jbua5150 said:


> It is a very odd occurrence.
> The amps seem to function fine.



I feel quite certain that your amp is fine and I suggest that you relax and enjoy the music. And enjoy the blue pulses too!


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> I have a different amp (Glenn OTL) and well over 50 different rectifiers, and I have never seen a "slight blue pulse". I wonder if it might be a Woo "feature"?


Nooo.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> Well I finally got a second adapter to facilitate comparing these two 1641, a General Electronics and a Raytheon, and I am not able to discern any significant differences. Granted my ears are old and worn out, but I notice that @Dubstep Girl featured both of these in her comparison, and it appears that she considered them to be the same. And her ears are definitely better than mine.


----------



## Thaddy

Curious if anyone has experience with the Sylvania 5931/5U4GB tubes?  I've got my eye on a few made in 1957.  They might be a bit noisy since they had a military application but seem to be incredibly durable and long lasting.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Thaddy said:


> Curious if anyone has experience with the Sylvania 5931/5U4GB tubes?  I've got my eye on a few made in 1957.  They might be a bit noisy since they had a military application but seem to be incredibly durable and long lasting.


I have this exact tube currently in my xDuoo TA-30 (and had tested it in my Woo WA6-SE Gen 2).  Great rectifier - no noise issues whatsoever.


----------



## gibosi

Thaddy said:


> Curious if anyone has experience with the Sylvania 5931/5U4GB tubes?  I've got my eye on a few made in 1957.  They might be a bit noisy since they had a military application but seem to be incredibly durable and long lasting.



And if you like the Sylvania "house sound", that is, the sound of Sylvania output tubes and drivers, then I feel quite sure you will like the rectifier.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

gibosi said:


> And if you like the Sylvania "house sound", that is, the sound of Sylvania output tubes and drivers, then I feel quite sure you will like the rectifier.


I will say my Sylvania 13EM7 drivers took about 100 hours to stop "squeaking" and finally quiet down...


----------



## gibosi

ColSaulTigh said:


> I will say my Sylvania 13EM7 drivers took about 100 hours to stop "squeaking" and finally quiet down...



100 hours? You are much more patient than I am.


----------



## Thaddy (Apr 14, 2022)

gibosi said:


> And if you like the Sylvania "house sound", that is, the sound of Sylvania output tubes and drivers, then I feel quite sure you will like the rectifier.


Difficult to say these days.  I have some Sylvania 7236's but it's been years since I've listened to them, and that was in my old WA2.  My notes on the tubes say they're "very detailed, lots of power".  Maybe I'll break them back out and give them a listen again.  I've got a pair of the black plate 6SN7's as well, I should toss them in with the 7236's.


----------



## jbua5150

Today I found a local shop that sells Vacuum tubes and electronics. 
Stumbled across this gem.  
Are these rare?  I’ve not seen one before.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jbua5150 said:


> Today I found a local shop that sells Vacuum tubes and electronics.
> Stumbled across this gem.
> Are these rare?  I’ve not seen one before.


Interesting find!  I've not seen one, looking forward to hear your thoughts on it.


----------



## Thaddy

jbua5150 said:


> Today I found a local shop that sells Vacuum tubes and electronics.
> Stumbled across this gem.
> Are these rare?  I’ve not seen one before.


Does it have a single or double bottom getter?


----------



## gibosi

ColSaulTigh said:


> Interesting find!  I've not seen one, looking forward to hear your thoughts on it.



In my experience tubes made in the same factory by the same manufacturer tend to sound very similar. And therefore, it is likely that this Sylvania 274B sounds about the same as the Sylvania 5U4G. But no, I haven't heard it.


----------



## jbua5150

Thaddy said:


> Does it have a single or double bottom getter?


Single.


----------



## lumdicks

jbua5150 said:


> Today I found a local shop that sells Vacuum tubes and electronics.
> Stumbled across this gem.
> Are these rare?  I’ve not seen one before.








I have one in my stable and it is an excellent rectifier with good dynamics, silent background and good details. Sound signature is similar to WE274B and if you got it at a reasonable price, it is a gem to use.


----------



## lumdicks

lumdicks said:


> I have one in my stable and it is an excellent rectifier with good dynamics, silent background and good details. Sound signature is similar to WE274B and if you got it at a reasonable price, it is a gem to use.





Just rolled this in my WA22, with Mullard ECC32 as drivers and Chatham 6AS7 as power. Wonderful sound with good dynamics, deep and high quality bass, sweet mid and airy high.


----------



## jbua5150 (Apr 16, 2022)

lumdicks said:


> I have one in my stable and it is an excellent rectifier with good dynamics, silent background and good details. Sound signature is similar to WE274B and if you got it at a reasonable price, it is a gem to use.


The brief listening I've done so far on my WA6-SE seemed quite nice. (It replaced a Brimar CV717) 
Very quiet and seems to be a nice balance of meaty, yet well controlled bass and detail retrieval seemed to be improved over my trusty CV717. 
I have not yet put it in my WA22 as I have a new set of RCA VT-231 that I've recently acquired, and have been giving them a good run.
Maybe tonight I'll try it in my WA22 in place of the USAF-596.

The seller was asking $300.  I had seen he also had a Tung-Sol promotional Whale paperweight for sale that he was asking $50 for.
He then told me that he had some other promotional items from Tung Sol.  He came out with the Tung Sol tube cube and thermometer.
I paid less than $250 for all of it.


----------



## jbua5150

lumdicks said:


> Just rolled this in my WA22, with Mullard ECC32 as drivers and Chatham 6AS7 as power. Wonderful sound with good dynamics, deep and high quality bass, sweet mid and airy high.


Have you compared the Chatham 6AS7 to the Tung Sol 5998?


----------



## lumdicks

jbua5150 said:


> Have you compared the Chatham 6AS7 to the Tung Sol 5998?


I do not have TS5998 but have WE421A. WE421A is more powerful with stronger dynamics. In comparison the Chatham is a balanced and smooth tubes while the 421A is a punchy tube with excellent high low extension.


----------



## Thaddy

lumdicks said:


> I do not have TS5998 but have WE421A. WE421A is more powerful with stronger dynamics. In comparison the Chatham is a balanced and smooth tubes while the 421A is a punchy tube with excellent high low extension.


The bottom getter version of the 5998 has the same construction as the 421A. 

I have Chatham 6AS7G’s with the copper heater element along with bottom getter 5998’s but haven’t compared them. I’ll bet the 5998’s sound just like the 421A.


----------



## jhljhl

I have a pair of rk60/1641 tubes with 5u4g adapters for sale.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Why not just list them in the Classifieds section?


----------



## paradoxper

gibosi said:


> I have a different amp (Glenn OTL) and well over 50 different rectifiers, and I have never seen a "slight blue pulse". I wonder if it might be a Woo "feature"?


Have you a post comparing some of these -- specifically 5U4G and 5AR4?


----------



## gibosi (Apr 28, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Have you a post comparing some of these -- specifically 5U4G and 5AR4?



Unfortunately, my ears are old and worn out. And so I am unable to discern small and subtle differences. For me it's all about tone.
And even if I had golden ears, listening carefully and trying to characterize the sound of over 50 rectifiers (actually closer to 100 including 3 and 4 volt rectifiers) would be a major undertaking.

But I can share one observation that might prove useful. In my experience, tubes manufactured in the same factory by the same company tend to sound very similar. And to my ears, this is true for rectifiers, double triodes and even triode-strapped pentodes, such as the EL3N or C3g.

So to my ears, a Ken Rad 5U4G sounds quite similar to a Ken Rad 6SN7. An RCA 5R4GY sounds quite similar to an RCA 6SN7. A GEC U52 sounds quite similar to a GEC 6AS7G. A Mullard GZ32 sounds quite similar to a ECC32. And so forth.

And further, we don't listen to these tubes in isolation, but rather, in combination with drivers and output tubes. So I tend to use rectifiers as 'tone controls'. If I need to add a little more bass, I might install a Cossor 53KU or even a Svetlana 5C3S. If I need to boost the midrange, I might install a Holland-made GZ34. And if I need to add a little more treble, I might install a Sylvania 5U4G.

Hope this is helpful, but as always, my ears and my gear, YMMV.


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 28, 2022)

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, my ears are old and worn out. And so I am unable to discern small and subtle differences. For me it's all about tone.
> And even if I had golden ears, listening carefully and trying to characterize the sound of over 50 rectifiers (actually closer to 100 including 3 and 4 volt rectifiers) would be a major undertaking.
> 
> But I can share one observation that might prove useful. In my experience, tubes manufactured in the same factory by the same company tend to sound very similar. And to my ears, this is true for rectifiers, double triodes and even triode-strapped pentodes, such as the EL3N or C3g.
> ...


Using rectifier tubes as ‘tone controls’ is a fascinating idea. To my non-EE but analytical mind, the way in which the rectifier tube performs its task sets up the electrical environment in which ‘downstream’ tubes may reach optimal operating conditions - hence affecting the reproduced sound 🤷🏻‍♂️.


----------



## gibosi

jonathan c said:


> Using rectifier tubes as ‘tone controls’ is a fascinating idea. To my non-EE but analytical mind, the way in which the rectifier tube performs its task sets up the electrical environment in which ‘downstream’ tubes may reach optimal operating conditions - hence affecting the reproduced sound 🤷🏻‍♂️.



In my experience, the notion that "voltage drop" is responsible for the "sound" of a rectifier doesn't hold water. The sound of a rectifier is a function of the factory it was manufactured in. 

The following might be of interest....

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2081#post-15204559


----------



## jonathan c

gibosi said:


> In my experience, the notion that "voltage drop" is responsible for the "sound" of a rectifier doesn't hold water. The sound of a rectifier is a function of the factory it was manufactured in.
> 
> The following might be of interest....
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2081#post-15204559


Thank you…very illuminating…


----------



## paradoxper

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, my ears are old and worn out. And so I am unable to discern small and subtle differences. For me it's all about tone.
> And even if I had golden ears, listening carefully and trying to characterize the sound of over 50 rectifiers (actually closer to 100 including 3 and 4 volt rectifiers) would be a major undertaking.
> 
> But I can share one observation that might prove useful. In my experience, tubes manufactured in the same factory by the same company tend to sound very similar. And to my ears, this is true for rectifiers, double triodes and even triode-strapped pentodes, such as the EL3N or C3g.
> ...


This makes a lot of sense. And all tidbits are helpful. Thank you.


----------



## RobertSM (May 12, 2022)

One of my favorite rectifiers. The Cossor 53KU, brown base. Note the unusual side disk getter. It almost resembles a washer with a hole in the center.


----------



## Ranger Ron

RobertSM said:


> One of my favorite rectifiers. The Cossor 53KU, brown base. Note the unusual side disk getter. It almost resembles a washer with a hole in the center.


It’s such a fantastic tube. Ive started to prefer it over the U52. I do miss some of the U52 ‘air’ at times, but the 53KU just brings it. My Decware ZP3 has never sounded better.


----------



## RobertSM

Ranger Ron said:


> It’s such a fantastic tube. Ive started to prefer it over the U52. I do miss some of the U52 ‘air’ at times, but the 53KU just brings it. My Decware ZP3 has never sounded better.


@Ranger Ron  we have similar tastes. The U52, Cossor 53KU & the metal base GZ34 are definitely my favorite rectifiers. All hall of famers in my book.


----------



## gkg2k

RobertSM said:


> One of my favorite rectifiers. The Cossor 53KU, brown base. Note the unusual side disk getter. It almost resembles a washer with a hole in the center.


Wonderful!

I use a pair of rare *Black-base* 53KU's and the getter is identical.

What a sound...

Gianluca


----------



## gibosi

gkg2k said:


> Wonderful!
> 
> I use a pair of rare *Black-base* 53KU's and the getter is identical.
> 
> ...



Just to be clear. The color of the base has absolutely no effect on the sound. Nonetheless, enjoy.


----------



## VanHai

I will receive this tube at the end of the week, please help with some information. Thanks.


----------



## gkg2k

gibosi said:


> Just to be clear. The color of the base has absolutely no effect on the sound. Nonetheless, enjoy.



Dear Gibosi,

it's good you to explain that colours don't affect sound quality, but for what regards the Cossor 53KU colours should mean something :

"tubes have the "K" factory code & were made in the UK in the 1940s or early 1950s. They are considered superior to the later Cossor 53KU with brown base & grey anode plate".

My 53KU's are black base and black plates and they sound _better_ than a friend's brown/grey pair.

G


----------



## RobertSM

Well I definitely know there is a difference between the older fat bottle version and the newer skinny bottle version. Besides the bottle size, the internals are very different.


----------



## VanHai

RobertSM said:


> Well I definitely know there is a difference between the older fat bottle version and the newer skinny bottle version. Besides the bottle size, the internals are very different.


I think my is skinny version. i just want to know how they sound, not many information about them.


----------



## gkg2k

VanHai said:


> I will receive this tube at the end of the week, please help with some information. Thanks.



Is this the skinny bottle?

Please post more pictures when you receive it 😉


----------



## gibosi (May 12, 2022)

VanHai said:


> I will receive this tube at the end of the week, please help with some information. Thanks.



This appears to be a Mullard GZ37. When Cossor stopped manufacturing vacuum tubes they still sold radios. So they sourced the Mullards for use in their radios.

And yes, some people refer to the old Cossor as the fat version and the Mullard as the skinny version.


----------



## VanHai

gkg2k said:


> Is this the skinny bottle?
> 
> Please post more pictures when you receive it 😉


I think it is skinny bottle and i will post some pictures later this week.


----------



## VanHai

gibosi said:


> This appears to be a Mullard GZ37. When Cossor stopped manufacturing vacuum tubes they still sold radios. So they sourced the Mullards for use in their radios.


Thank you @gibosi
 ​


----------



## gibosi

VanHai said:


> I think my is skinny version. i just want to know how they sound, not many information about them.



Do have any Mullard vacuum tubes? Drivers? Output tubes? Most Mullard vacuum tubes sound similar. And they sound different than the Cossor. 

But everyone haas different ears and different gear so I have no idea which one you might prefer.


----------



## gkg2k (May 12, 2022)

I own the Mullard GZ37 and it's a nice-but-not-special tube. Better than others but nothing incredibile.

Hopefully you didn't pay an extra for the Cossor logo


----------



## VanHai

gibosi said:


> Do have any Mullard vacuum tubes? Drivers? Output tubes? Most Mullard vacuum tubes sound similar. And they sound different than the Cossor.
> 
> But everyone haas different ears and different gear so I have no idea which one you might prefer.


Yes,  i have 2 Mullard rectifiers GZ30 and 5G4V. I will run the Cossor against them.


----------



## gibosi (May 12, 2022)

gkg2k said:


> Dear Gibosi,
> 
> it's good you to explain that colours don't affect sound quality, but for what regards the Cossor 53KU colours should mean something :
> 
> ...



If the tubes have identical construction and the only difference is the color of the base they should sound about the same. The brown base was introduced in the 1950's because it was more resistant to RF noise. But for most of us, our amplifiers are in very quiet and protected spaces. So the brown base is of no benefit in audio.

Very generally, tubes with black bases are older than tubes with brown bases, but not always.  And some people think older tubes sound better. But again, not always.


----------



## gibosi

VanHai said:


> Yes,  i have 2 Mullard rectifiers GZ30 and 5G4V. I will run the Cossor against them.



And I am not sure if the GZ30 and 5G4V were actually manufactured by Mullard........


----------



## VanHai

gkg2k said:


> I own the Mullard GZ37 and it's a nice-but-not-special tube. Better than others but nothing incredibile.
> 
> Hopefully you didn't pay an extra for the Cossor logo


I got it for $60.00 from Ebay, so it is not a bad deal at all.


----------



## gkg2k

VanHai said:


> I got it for $60.00 from Ebay, so it is not a bad deal at all.



Good!


----------



## VanHai

gibosi said:


> And I am not sure if the GZ30 and 5G4V were actually manufactured by Mullard........


Yes, they manufactured in Blackburn by Mullard. I checked the codes.


----------



## gkg2k

gibosi said:


> If the tubes have identical construction and the only difference is the color of the base they should sound about the same. The brown base was introduced in the 1950's because it was more resistant to RF noise. But for most of us, our amplifiers are in very quiet and protected spaces. So the brown base is of no benefit in audio.
> 
> Very generally, tubes with black bases are older than tubes with brown bases, but not always.  And some people think older tubes sound better. But again, not always.



Not always, I agree. There are exceptions, but not in this case IMHO. The earlier black plates and black base 53KU sounds better than the brown/grey one to my ears. Not by a large margin, of course. We're talking about details, but details count.


----------



## gkg2k

gibosi said:


> Just to be clear. The color of the base has absolutely no effect on the sound. Nonetheless, enjoy.



Gibosi, how do you think the 53KU would compare to the Takatsuki Denki TA-274B? Are there data that allow us to express an opinion?

Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

gkg2k said:


> Gibosi, how do you think the 53KU would compare to the Takatsuki Denki TA-274B? Are there data that allow us to express an opinion?
> 
> Thanks!



The only way to know is to compare them in YOUR amp. 

Takatsuki Denki TA-274B can provide at most 225mA, the same as a 5U4G. 

https://www.takatsuki-denki.co.jp/en/products/ta-274b.html

My Glenn is very power hungry and I need at least 250mA. So even if I could get my hands on one, I dare not use it in my amp.


----------



## gkg2k

Here is a *great *review of the Takatsuki Denki TA-274B versus the KR Audio 5U4G "Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition" by @ColSaulTigh :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rectifiers-why.305127/page-3#post-16963354

Many thanks to this guy for a very accurate comparison!


----------



## VanHai

Here are some pictures of the Cossor thin bottle 53KU/ GZ37. I think @gibosi is correct, it has characteristics of a Mullard built. Very sweet and smooth, Mid and vocal are beautiful.


----------



## gibosi

VanHai said:


> Here are some pictures of the Cossor thin bottle 53KU/ GZ37. I think @gibosi is correct, it has characteristics of a Mullard built. Very sweet and smooth, Mid and vocal are beautiful.



Yes indeed, that is a Mullard GZ37.


----------



## Thaddy

I read a bit about this tube earlier on in this thread and wanted to bring it up again.  From what I understand there are two variants floating around: the older has a darker base with dual bottom 'D' getters, and the newer has a lighter base with a single bottom getter.  I'm unable to make out the date code on my older 5R4GY, but the newer one is pretty clear.  I'm assuming it's the 13th week of 1956?  The logo definitely gives away it's military heritage.


----------



## gibosi

Thaddy said:


> I read a bit about this tube earlier on in this thread and wanted to bring it up again.  From what I understand there are two variants floating around: the older has a darker base with dual bottom 'D' getters, and the newer has a lighter base with a single bottom getter.  I'm unable to make out the date code on my older 5R4GY, but the newer one is pretty clear.  I'm assuming it's the 13th week of 1956?  The logo definitely gives away it's military heritage.



I have never seen an 5R4GY from any manufacturer that didn't have two bottom getter holders, so yours is a new one for me. 

Here's an "older" one with a dark base. H = 1944, 5 = the two-month period, Sep to Oct, and E = an Original Equipment Manufacturer, as opposed to a distributor.


----------



## Thaddy

Very cool, I'll have to inspect my double bottom getter a bit more closely to see if I can make out any codes.  The single bottom getters appear to be fairly plentiful on eBay, probably worth picking one up to listen to.  I believe I got both of mine from vacuumtubes.net, the single getter being a bit cheaper ($35 vs. $75).

Perhaps the single getter was related to the end customer being the US military?  Quicker/cheaper to manufacture?


----------



## gibosi

Thaddy said:


> Very cool, I'll have to inspect my double bottom getter a bit more closely to see if I can make out any codes.  The single bottom getters appear to be fairly plentiful on eBay, probably worth picking one up to listen to.  I believe I got both of mine from vacuumtubes.net, the single getter being a bit cheaper ($35 vs. $75).
> 
> Perhaps the single getter was related to the end customer being the US military?  Quicker/cheaper to manufacture?



Well, a cheaper tube for use of the US military still had to meet minimum specifications. But manufacturing product more cheaply while still meeting spec is the natural order of business. So I'm inclined to think that due to technological advances, RCA found a way to meet spec with only one getter.

But still, I also have 5R4GY manufactured by NEC, Brimar, Fivre and La Radiotechnique and all of them have two bottom getter holders. So it is interesting that the later RCA has only one. Another mystery. lol


----------



## Thaddy

gibosi said:


> Well, a cheaper tube for use of the US military still had to meet minimum specifications. But manufacturing product more cheaply while still meeting spec is the natural order of business. So I'm inclined to think that due to technological advances, RCA found a way to meet spec with only one getter.
> 
> But still, I also have 5R4GY manufactured by NEC, Brimar, Fivre and La Radiotechnique and all of them have two bottom getter holders. So it is interesting that the later RCA has only one. Another mystery. lol


I think I'm _barely _able to make out a date code, but the first number appears to be a 6, leading me to believe my 5R4GY dual bottom getter is from 1946?

I also received an RCA 5V4G recently from VacuumTubes.net.  Looks to be dated from December of 1948.  Hopefully someone wasn't checked out for Christmas and New Years when assembling this one!


----------



## gibosi

Thaddy said:


> I think I'm _barely _able to make out a date code, but the first number appears to be a 6, leading me to believe my 5R4GY dual bottom getter is from 1946?
> 
> I also received an RCA 5V4G recently from VacuumTubes.net.  Looks to be dated from December of 1948.  Hopefully someone wasn't checked out for Christmas and New Years when assembling this one!



Is the first digit on your 5R4GY a number? Or a letter? If a letter, the tube was likely manufactured before Jan, 1946. If the first digit is a number, then it was manufactured after Dec, 1945.

And so, if the first digit is a "6", it was manufactured in 1946, and the next two digits should be numbers indicating the month.


----------



## Thaddy

gibosi said:


> Is the first digit on your 5R4GY a number? Or a letter? If a letter, the tube was likely manufactured before Jan, 1946. If the first digit is a number, then it was manufactured after Dec, 1945.
> 
> And so, if the first digit is a "6", it was manufactured in 1946, and the next two digits should be numbers indicating the month.


The're all numbers, probably following RCA's "n-nn" scheme.  The first digit appears to be a 6.  The second two are very hard to make out but the second number appears to be an 8.  So, 6-x8.


----------



## UntilThen

RobertSM said:


> The U52, Cossor 53KU & the metal base GZ34 are definitely my favorite rectifiers. All hall of famers in my book.



All great rectifiers though what possess me to sell the GEC U52 is beyond me. Now I've buy another again. Here's my current rectifiers collection that I use in WA22 and Odyssey.

Left to right :- 
'Mullard' 5U4G (Mullard never made any 5U4G so this a masquerade) 

Mullard GZ34 - L1J L = M.B.L.E., Bruxelles, Belgium (Mazda) Notes from correspondence with Gibosi
So Mullard didn't make it. I don't have this GZ34, but generally, I find MBLE production to be somewhat sweeter than Mullard's.

Miniwatt 5AR4 - Made in Sittard Holland. Notes from correspondence with Gibosi
And yes, Sittard is located about 90 miles from Eindhoven, and was considered something like a branch campus. And in my experience with other tubes, Sittard and Eindhoven production sound very similar. And given what a metal Eindhoven GZ34 usually goes for these days, the Sittard is a bargain. 

Cossor 53KU

596 USAF from Woo Audio

Pair of Mullard GZ32

Miniwatt GZ34 metal base in the next picture. It's sitting in the amp.

So which of the 3 GZ34 do I like the best. They all sounds absolutely amazing. I'll preserve my sanity trying to compare them.


----------



## WillieB

I have to say that the 596 is quite the disappointment considering all the hype that it gets. The lack of bass definition makes it pretty boring IMO. After reading about it a bit more, it seems it's internal voltage drop can be 60-70V due to it's high internal impedance. Also, it was intended to operate at much higher voltages than what it sees in the HiFi world. It's become apparent that I greatly prefer rectifiers with lower voltage drop. Especially when matched with larger power tubes like 6550/KT88. Even when using 6L6GC/WB or EL34, I prefer other rectifiers such as IEC/Mullard 5U4G and ever better, the Winged C 5Y3C that can be had for $20. Maybe the 596 excels in areas that aren't revealed in the genres that I enjoy. I most listen to classic rock, rock, metal, classic country and some jazz.


----------



## UntilThen

When using KT88, EL34, 6550, I generally use GZ34 for the lowest voltage drop but so far nothing untoward happened when using 596. 

I wouldn't call it lack of bass definition in my amp. It is more neutral and transparent though which can be helpful if that is the tone I want to dial into. It's very much at home in the WA22 with 5998 tubes.


----------



## gibosi

WillieB said:


> I have to say that the 596 is quite the disappointment considering all the hype that it gets.



In the end, everyone has different ears and different gear. Sorry the 596 isn't doing it for you. But in many other systems it is a winner.


----------



## gibosi (Jun 6, 2022)

WillieB said:


> It's become apparent that I greatly prefer rectifiers with lower voltage drop. Especially when matched with larger power tubes like 6550/KT88. Even when using 6L6GC/WB or EL34, I prefer other rectifiers such as IEC/Mullard 5U4G



Contrary to what many think, voltage drop has no effect on the "sound" of a rectifier operating in a headphone amp. And you might be interested to know that your preferred 5U4G has a fairly high v-drop of anywhere between 44 and 58 volts, depending on the maker.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I think the Mighty 596 YouTube got might have an issue.  I find mine toasty and often describe it as warm maple syrup sounding.  It has all the power I need for classic rock, metal, modern rock, jazz, and modern country.

Plus, having two of them doesn't hurt...


----------



## Ranger Ron

WillieB said:


> I have to say that the 596 is quite the disappointment considering all the hype that it gets. The lack of bass definition makes it pretty boring IMO. After reading about it a bit more, it seems it's internal voltage drop can be 60-70V due to it's high internal impedance. Also, it was intended to operate at much higher voltages than what it sees in the HiFi world. It's become apparent that I greatly prefer rectifiers with lower voltage drop. Especially when matched with larger power tubes like 6550/KT88. Even when using 6L6GC/WB or EL34, I prefer other rectifiers such as IEC/Mullard 5U4G and ever better, the Winged C 5Y3C that can be had for $20. Maybe the 596 excels in areas that aren't revealed in the genres that I enjoy. I most listen to classic rock, rock, metal, classic country and some jazz.


You could give the GZ33 a whirl.  It has less drop than a 5u4g, closer to a GZ34, at least in my experience.🤷🏾‍♂️


----------



## gibosi

@WillieB

Again, in my experience, v-drop has no affect on the sound (unless you are using a guitar amp). However, if you strongly believe that lower is better, here are a few you might want to try (v-drop measured in my amp):

GZ32  20VDC
GZ34 13VDC
GZ37 27VDC
53KU 22VDC


----------



## WillieB

gibosi said:


> @WillieB
> 
> Again, in my experience, v-drop has no affect on the sound (unless you are using a guitar amp). However, if you strongly believe that lower is better, here are a few you might want to try (v-drop measured in my amp):
> 
> ...


Well, for that matter, I can cite many publications that certify that the rectifier has no effect on sound at all, but I can definitely distinguish one from another. If changing the voltage supplied to the gain tubes' plates doesn't change the sound, what does?


----------



## WillieB (Jun 7, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> I think the Mighty 596 YouTube got might have an issue.  I find mine toasty and often describe it as warm maple syrup sounding.  It has all the power I need for classic rock, metal, modern rock, jazz, and modern country.
> 
> Plus, having two of them doesn't hurt...


It very well could be a dud. I got it new, or at least it was sold as new. I would say it tests okay, but I only have an emission tester at my disposal right now, so that really doesn't show anything. The fact that it works in my amp has already established that much. Once I get my TV-7 I can try to test it with that, but like I said, even that may not be adequate considering the plate voltages that the 596 would typically operate at.


----------



## Roasty

hey guys. I'm looking for a matched pair of Philips 5r4gys. if anyone has a set to let go, lemme know. thanks!


----------



## gibosi

WillieB said:


> Well, for that matter, I can cite many publications that certify that the rectifier has no effect on sound at all, but I can definitely distinguish one from another. If changing the voltage supplied to the gain tubes' plates doesn't change the sound, what does?



Yes, I have read many of these same publications. But these folks never tested their theory!

I compared three rectifiers that have the same v-drop, as measured in my amp, and they sounded very different! And yet, the operating voltage points for the other tubes in the amp are identical for each of these rectifiers. So what is the reason rectifiers sound different? I think it is likely harmonic distortion, in the same way that harmonic distortion is the reason that drivers and output tubes sound different.

If you are interested, I can send you more information.


----------



## WillieB

gibosi said:


> Yes, I have read many of these same publications. But these folks never tested their theory!
> 
> I compared three rectifiers that have the same v-drop, as measured in my amp, and they sounded very different! And yet, the operating voltage points for the other tubes in the amp are identical for each of these rectifiers. So what is the reason rectifiers sound different? I think it is likely harmonic distortion, in the same way that harmonic distortion is the reason that drivers and output tubes sound different.
> 
> If you are interested, I can send you more information.


Interesting. I would certainly enjoy reading more about it. I guess it's like a lot of things in this hobby; The most obvious reason/cause is not always the answer.

Also, on a different front, I have my 596 sounding better. The pins on that tube looked as clean as I have seen on any other so I hadn't payed them much attention. I decided to take a closer look. Under magnification, they still seemed okay except when light hit them just right. It was like some haze or coating, but scraping with an exacto didn't remove much from the anode pins. That did seem to clean up the base pins somewhat. For the anode pins, I used a ceramic rod from a knife sharpening kit to gently file the haze off. It sounds quite different know. I also think a better adapter is in order. The anode connectors are not the greatest on the one I have. I ordered one so we'll see if that further improves things.


----------



## Thaddy

Roasty said:


> hey guys. I'm looking for a matched pair of Philips 5r4gys. if anyone has a set to let go, lemme know. thanks!


Could those be a rebranded RCA?  I have two different RCA 5R4GY's, one with dual-bottom getters and a dark brown base, and another "younger" one with a single bottom getter and a lighter brown base.  They're excellent tubes and I got them from Arizona Tube Supply and eBay.

These tubes on eBay look nearly identical to my older RCA 5R4GY with dual bottom getters.


----------



## gibosi

The Philips 5R4GY was manufactured by La Radiotechnique in France. They are often labeled Dario.

They can be easily recognized by the "umbrella spokes" on the top mica. For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313483588497


----------



## Thaddy

Interesting, it looks identical to my RCA tubes, "umbrella spokes" and all.


----------



## gibosi

Thaddy said:


> Interesting, it looks identical to my RCA tubes, "umbrella spokes" and all.



The umbrella spokes are quite different.


----------



## Thaddy

Oh yeah, looking closer mine extend below the mica, but they don't loop up as high as the Phillips, and are flush with the top mica.


----------



## fzman

fake sophia, or what?


----------



## gibosi

If someone's looking for a 596, this might be a good deal. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204041167807


----------



## jbua5150

gibosi said:


> If someone's looking for a 596, this might be a good deal.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/204041167807


I really gotta stay outta this forum. Hehe 
Thanks for the tip.  
It’s good to have a backup.


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Jul 21, 2022)

wow thats a good deal on 596

oh and hello everyone ☺️♥️😃


----------



## gibosi

Here's a pair of 1641, the little brother of the 596. While the 596 is good up to 60,000 feet, the 1641 is only good up to 10,000. So if your system is located at an altitude higher than 10,000 above sea level, the 1641 would not be recommended. lol 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165588475619


----------



## drjerryyan

gibosi said:


> Here's a pair of 1641, the little brother of the 596. While the 596 is good up to 60,000 feet, the 1641 is only good up to 10,000. So if your system is located at an altitude higher than 10,000 above sea level, the 1641 would not be recommended. lol
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/165588475619


I wonder how they sound... has anyone ever used this in their amp?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

drjerryyan said:


> I wonder how they sound... has anyone ever used this in their amp?


I just started looking for adapters for my Woo...anybody have any suggestions?


----------



## gibosi

drjerryyan said:


> I wonder how they sound... has anyone ever used this in their amp?



@Dubstep Girl reviewed them in this thread. Go to page one. 

To my old and worn out ears it sounds similar to the 596....


----------



## gibosi

ColSaulTigh said:


> I just started looking for adapters for my Woo...anybody have any suggestions?



I'm using this adapter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/191640892329


----------



## rnros

drjerryyan said:


> I wonder how they sound... has anyone ever used this in their amp?


Agree with @gibosi, very good rectifier. In the Glenn OTL.
But I’ve only used the 1940s mil spec version.

See these old posts:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2064#post-15198076
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1626#post-14699943

You can search for more 1641/RK60 comments in that thread.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

In case anyone is interested, I found a pair of my beloved *KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition Rectifier tubes* for sale. I've bought from him before, excellent seller, but he's firm on his price.

Go get 'em!


----------



## jbua5150

When testing the USAF596 on an Amplitrex AT1000, do you use the 596-5U4G adapter and test as 5U4G?


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Jul 23, 2022)

jbua5150 said:


> When testing the USAF596 on an Amplitrex AT1000, do you use the 596-5U4G adapter and test as 5U4G?


I would think you need one for each of the top pins, or does the Amplitrex have them built-in?


----------



## jbua5150

ColSaulTigh said:


> I works think you need one for the top pins, or does the Amplitrex have them built-in?


Both tube testers I’ve used Amplitrex AT1000 and B&K 707 only have one port for an external grid wire.  I’m not sure how one would attach leads to both top pins of the 596.
Seems like the 596-5U4G adapter would HAVE to be used?


----------



## Adnan Firoze

In case anyone is interested, selling off my spare Mullard/Cossor GZ37 "Fat Bottle" (very different from the regular version, please read DubStep Girl's famous ranking and impressions - linked below) in NOS condition.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/rare-mullard-cossor-gz37-fat-bottle-rectifier-tube.29865/

You can read about it on DubStep Girl's famous thread.. It's at #3.


----------



## jbua5150

No one has experience testing the USAF-596, to help shed some light the how to properly test one?


----------



## gibosi

While I don't own a tube tester, I feel fairly certain that you could mount it in a 596 to 5U4 adapter and test it as a 5U4GB. This should get you pretty close. 

Good luck!


----------



## jbua5150

gibosi said:


> While I don't own a tube tester, I feel fairly certain that you could mount it in a 596 to 5U4 adapter and test it as a 5U4GB. This should get you pretty close.
> 
> Good luck!


This is what I'll have to do.  I think the 596 I just purchased may be quite used. 
I notice a slight "haze" in the glass that my other 596 doesn't have.  I don't install untested tubes.
I hope to test it on Wednesday, a local shop has an Amplitrex and lets me rent time on it.  Fingers crossed


----------



## WillieB

jbua5150 said:


> This is what I'll have to do.  I think the 596 I just purchased may be quite used.
> I notice a slight "haze" in the glass that my other 596 doesn't have.  I don't install untested tubes.
> I hope to test it on Wednesday, a local shop has an Amplitrex and lets me rent time on it.  Fingers crossed


Yes, that is the best and only way to test it on an Amplitrex(some type of adapter). The percentages will likely be off due to them being related to expected values for 5U4G, but you can always take your known-good 596 and compare numbers between the two.


----------



## Gazza

Is this Mullard 5AR4 still one of the best NOS models to buy?

https://tubedepot.com/products/5ar4-gz34-mullard-philips

$300 USD per tube is pretty high but if it's worth it and lasts a very long time then I'd be willing to give it a shot. Has to be better than my current bog-standard Sovtek.


----------



## WillieB

Gazza said:


> Is this Mullard 5AR4 still one of the best NOS models to buy?
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/5ar4-gz34-mullard-philips
> 
> $300 USD per tube is pretty high but if it's worth it and lasts a very long time then I'd be willing to give it a shot. Has to be better than my current bog-standard Sovtek.


That's a Mullard 4 notch. Great rectifier and they typically last a very long time. I think $300 is a little high. I bought one not too long ago on Ebay for $125. They might not be up there every day, but often enough to snag one. The 7 notch is just as good if you find one of those. Honestly, the JJ GZ34/5AR4 is pretty good sound-wise, IMO, but many people say that durability is lacking. I only have one of them and it's been fine so far, but I probably only have a few hundred hours on it.


----------



## Gazza

WillieB said:


> That's a Mullard 4 notch. Great rectifier and they typically last a very long time. I think $300 is a little high. I bought one not too long ago on Ebay for $125. They might not be up there every day, but often enough to snag one. The 7 notch is just as good if you find one of those. Honestly, the JJ GZ34/5AR4 is pretty good sound-wise, IMO, but many people say that durability is lacking. I only have one of them and it's been fine so far, but I probably only have a few hundred hours on it.



Thanks for the info. I found this pair on eBay, 7 notch:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115467728758?hash=item1ae269b776:g:sT4AAOSw8h9i1NEy

A good deal cheaper ($345USD a pair vs $600USD a pair for the previous ones I posted). Seem to be well specced. 

Thinking of grabbing these RCA 5691 red plates at the same time:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225092612376?hash=item346890b118:g:AXAAAOSwyd9iV1aL

I'll be matching them with the new WE 300B that I'll also be ordering.

All I need now is a good pair of 0D3 but it's hard working out which make is best. It seems the regulator tubes don't make much difference to the sound from what I've read.


----------



## WillieB

Gazza said:


> Thanks for the info. I found this pair on eBay, 7 notch:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/115467728758?hash=item1ae269b776:g:sT4AAOSw8h9i1NEy
> 
> ...


Which 300B amp do you have? I have been weighing options between a new custom OTL, or a 300B amp.


----------



## Gazza

WillieB said:


> Which 300B amp do you have? I have been weighing options between a new custom OTL, or a 300B amp.



Manley Labs 300B Esoteric Preamp:

https://www.manley.com/hifi/neo3br

Utterly magical amp for both headphones and speakers.


----------



## gibosi

Here's another 596 that might be a good deal for someone. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204058790800


----------



## ColSaulTigh

If anyone needs a single 5U4G, there's one of my favorites - KR Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition - up *HERE*.


----------



## jbua5150

gibosi said:


> While I don't own a tube tester, I feel fairly certain that you could mount it in a 596 to 5U4 adapter and test it as a 5U4GB. This should get you pretty close.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks again for the heads up on the 596!  
I got to test it Monday, and it tested slightly higher than the 596 that I have already. 
 I know it’s purely luck (and silly) but the graphics on the base of this tube is much more visible on my adapter!


----------



## Thaddy (Aug 5, 2022)

Today a pretty cool tube showed up in the mailbox.  The 'tater masher!  This one is from 1952 and is currently warming up in my WA22.  May not be the best sounding tube, but for $26 shipped it's a cool one to keep in the collection.  I was pretty surprised by how heavy it is.  The base and glass are very thick, definitely designed for longevity.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

These Elrog 5U4G's are no joke!

Yeah, they're expensive.  They have every right to be.  By far the best rectifiers I've heard to date.  Easily surpass my beloved KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions.

By far.


----------



## RobertSM

RobertSM said:


> Is anyone running the German made Elrog 5U4G?
> 
> If so, please share your impressions.





ColSaulTigh said:


> These Elrog 5U4G's are no joke!
> 
> Yeah, they're expensive.  They have every right to be.  By far the best rectifiers I've heard to date.  Easily surpass my beloved KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions.
> 
> By far.


Finally! I've been wondering about these for awhile myself.


----------



## Thaddy

Where did you get the Elrog 5U4G's?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Thaddy said:


> Where did you get the Elrog 5U4G's?


*Parts Connexion*

I had originally bought the 274B's which did not play nice with the Woo Audio WA5-LE.  They were EXTREMELY nice about my issue, paid for return shipping, and sent me these.

Pro tip:  a friendly email to them might garner you some price relief.


----------



## Thaddy

I saw they were out of stock but wasn't sure of any other NA distributors.  Guess I'll just have to wait.  I have a hard time paying that much for a new production tube but I'm glad to hear they may be flexible.  I've landed on a handful of tube combinations that sound best in my WA22, but I've been slowly collecting some other 6SN7/6SL7 variants and 5U4G's for a custom Odyssey that's being built by Ultra Sonic studios this holiday season.  I've got the Elrog 5U4G on my list now.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Elrogs are nothing like conventional tubes.  Completely different innards, including plates, filaments, and design.  Trust me, I've got quite a collection of rectifiers (5U4g, 274B) and these put them ALL to shame.  My beloved KR Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions sound like lumps of coal compared to these.  Takatsuki's can't touch them.  EML's are lifeless in comparison.  They're worth EVERY PENNY.


----------



## Thaddy

Hyperbole aside, they sound very interesting, especially the founders past history with Telefunken.


----------



## pippen99

A big +1  dealing with Parts Connexion.  I purchased a quad of the new Takatsuki 2A3.  One tube was DOA.  One phone call had a return label and they shipped the replacement pair before the defective pair was halfway back.  Would heartily recommend Parts Connexion.


----------



## freeryder05

I got these at a garage sale. Was told the left two are matched. The ones on the right I can't tell. Are they different or all they the same tube?


----------



## gibosi

freeryder05 said:


> I got these at a garage sale. Was told the left two are matched. The ones on the right I can't tell. Are they different or all they the same tube?



The picture isn't very detailed, but it does appear that all of them were manufactured by RCA, with the same construction, and the red paint suggests that they were all manufactured at about the same time.


----------



## freeryder05

gibosi said:


> The picture isn't very detailed, but it does appear that all of them were manufactured by RCA, with the same construction, and the red paint suggests that they were all manufactured at about the same time.


I agree. I tested all of them and so far I like the 2nd to the left the best. Against my 3KU, EMITRON BADGED COSSOR, BROWN BASE I think I like it better


----------



## gibosi

freeryder05 said:


> I agree. I tested all of them and so far I like the 2nd to the left the best. Against my 3KU, EMITRON BADGED COSSOR, BROWN BASE I think I like it better



Well, since you prefer the RCA to the Cossor, I am willing to take that Cossor off your hands for cheap. lol

Enjoy!


----------



## freeryder05

gibosi said:


> Well, since you prefer the RCA to the Cossor, I am willing to take that Cossor off your hands for cheap. lol
> 
> Enjoy!


about tree fitty


----------



## Souldriver

jbua5150 said:


> I had seen he also had a Tung-Sol promotional Whale paperweight for sale that he was asking $50 for.
> He then told me that he had some other promotional items from Tung Sol.  He came out with the Tung Sol tube cube and thermometer.
> I paid less than $250 for all of it.


The tube cube and thermometer are cool, but that whale is AMAZING!


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 14, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> These Elrog 5U4G's are no joke!
> 
> Yeah, they're expensive.  They have every right to be.  By far the best rectifiers I've heard to date.  Easily surpass my beloved KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions.
> 
> By far.


Do they have to be matched or can you just buy any 2?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> Do they have to be matched or can you just buy any 2?


Just buy two.


----------



## Coran

ColSaulTigh said:


> Elrogs are nothing like conventional tubes.  Completely different innards, including plates, filaments, and design.  Trust me, I've got quite a collection of rectifiers (5U4g, 274B) and these put them ALL to shame.  My beloved KR Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions sound like lumps of coal compared to these.  Takatsuki's can't touch them.  EML's are lifeless in comparison.  They're worth EVERY PENNY.



What exactly makes them so good? Can you provide a few more specifics? I'm starting to look for a new rectifier for my WA22.


----------



## DJJEZ

Coran said:


> What exactly makes them so good? Can you provide a few more specifics? I'm starting to look for a new rectifier for my WA22.


+1. Would like to hear what makes them better


----------



## Thaddy

Honestly it's hard to take comments like...



> My beloved KR Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions sound like lumps of coal compared to these. Takatsuki's can't touch them. EML's are lifeless in comparison.



...seriously.


----------



## UntilThen

Thaddy said:


> Honestly it's hard to take comments like...
> 
> 
> 
> ...seriously.


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 15, 2022)

…🤙 versus 👍…


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Thaddy said:


> Honestly it's hard to take comments like...
> 
> 
> 
> ...seriously.


Credit where credit is due.  That's my comment.  I stand by what I said.  I LOVE my KR RK's and have for a while.  But when I find something better, and in this case, significantly better (IMHO), I don't have an issue admitting when I've changed my opinions.


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Aug 15, 2022)

Coran said:


> What exactly makes them so good? Can you provide a few more specifics? I'm starting to look for a new rectifier for my WA22.





DJJEZ said:


> +1. Would like to hear what makes them better


From the *Stereonet* Review:

Production under Mayer’s watch is said to be significantly improved in terms of quality and reliability. Thomas tends to do things differently, the most notable difference being the use of thoriated tungsten filaments instead of metal oxide. He says that these are less prone to contaminations as oxide coated filaments, explaining that “contaminations simply get burned off while they can ‘poison’ the chemical mix of the coating of other filaments. They also react faster to different current demands which results in better dynamics and resolution.”

Given that it is widely believed that such filaments work more effectively at higher voltages, I asked Thomas how it ties in with its use in the 5V filament in the 300B and 274B, for example? “The filaments of the 300B and 274B had to be 5V to be compatible and draw the same current as standard specification 300B and 274B tubes. There is the result that the ER300B, for example, has a slightly higher than standard 300B spec Rp because of this.” Thomas adds that Molybdenum has a much smoother surface than other materials and is less prone to secondary emission effects. This is why it’s common in high powered transmitter tubes and has benefits for relatively low powered audio tubes. When I pointed out that his ER274B design is unusual for using vertically stacked plates, he replied that, “we love to do things differently!”

...and from *VinylSavior*:

Like all ELROG tubes the ER5U4G has a thoriated tungsten filament which gives off a bright light.  The two plates are arranged vertically one above the other so that the filament is visible between them.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Credit where credit is due.  That's my comment.  I stand by what I said.  I LOVE my KR RK's and have for a while.  But when I find something better, and in this case, significantly better (IMHO), I don't have an issue admitting when I've changed my opinions.


Haha. Reminds me when I said the Elrog ER300B makes the Western Electric 300B sound broken. 

Elrogs are just on a different level.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Haha. Reminds me when I said the Elrog ER300B makes the Western Electric 300B sound broken.
> 
> Elrogs are just on a different level.


Exactly.  Once upon a time, it was you and me against the world with the Elrogs.  Everyone had a bad taste in their mouth because of QC issues of the past.  These tubes really are that much better than the competition, and I've hit most of them, and whatever I've missed, you've covered.


----------



## ColSaulTigh




----------



## DJJEZ

ColSaulTigh said:


> From the *Stereonet* Review:
> 
> Production under Mayer’s watch is said to be significantly improved in terms of quality and reliability. Thomas tends to do things differently, the most notable difference being the use of thoriated tungsten filaments instead of metal oxide. He says that these are less prone to contaminations as oxide coated filaments, explaining that “contaminations simply get burned off while they can ‘poison’ the chemical mix of the coating of other filaments. They also react faster to different current demands which results in better dynamics and resolution.”
> 
> ...


Read all this before. I meant your opinion lol


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Ok, here's my review:

Conventional rectifiers are all built in a similar fashion, using carbon filaments in between various carbonized plates (I don't recall the specifics).  Normal rectifiers also suffer from "power fade" - like they run out of juice if you're hitting them with loud, hard, fast music.

Standard rectifiers can dramatically shape the sound in your system (depending on what amplifier you're using).  In my Woo Audio amps, it's VERY dramatic.  Yes, Diana Princesses look pretty, but they sound wholly unfulfilled in comparison.  The Takatsuki's are strong, powerful, clean tubes.  They lack impact and presence.  The Takatsuki fade into the background (which some may prefer), but they make no real name for themself.  The KR RK's are bold and robust, with hard-hitting bass at the sacrifice of cleanliness, and they can suffer some power sag.  They're very warm in tone, but not muddy.  Western Electrics are good, but that's it.  They don't excel at anything other than glowing blue.  They're a very mushy cereal.  EML labs (another one of my favorites) begin to become tight and close and lose all musical feel.  They feel like they're going through the steps.

In comparison, the Elrogs bring POWER and PRESENCE with them.  Sub-bass magically appears.  Bass is heard but not overblown,  Male vocals are rich and warm, while female voices are clear and bright or smoky and sultry.  The voices are more full and complete.  There's a certain airiness and soundstage with these.  They need to be heard to be believed.  The mid-highs and bright and clean without being sibilant.  Bright instruments ring appropriately.  Cymbals crash and reverberate.  You're not closed into a closet full of grandma's winter sweaters.  The Elrogs are very musical, and can handle everything from classical to jazz to rock to dubstep.  Colonel Saul Tigh approved!


----------



## DJJEZ

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ok, here's my review:
> 
> Conventional rectifiers are all built in a similar fashion, using carbon filaments in between various carbonized plates (I don't recall the specifics).  Normal rectifiers also suffer from "power fade" - like they run out of juice if you're hitting them with loud, hard, fast music.
> 
> ...


Thanks man


----------



## Gazza

Price aside, the Elrog's sound amazing. Shame they're so large as I doubt they would fit in my Manley 300B pre due to the rectifier sockets being very close together. NOS Mullards (and tubes of that size) are likely my best choice based on what fits.


----------



## RobertSM

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ok, here's my review:
> 
> Conventional rectifiers are all built in a similar fashion, using carbon filaments in between various carbonized plates (I don't recall the specifics).  Normal rectifiers also suffer from "power fade" - like they run out of juice if you're hitting them with loud, hard, fast music.
> 
> ...



Curious about the exact Western Electric rectifiers you're referring to.


----------



## attmci

RobertSM said:


> Curious about the exact Western Electric rectifiers you're referring to.


422A I believe.

I had been using a *596 in the past 6M. I put the 422A in today, and amazed by its holy 3D stage and air! It's cost much more than the 596 these days. But you may want to get one if possible. *


----------



## RobertSM

attmci said:


> 422A I believe.
> 
> I had been using a *596 in the past 6M. I put the 422A in today, and amazed by its holy 3D stage and air! It's cost much more than the 596 these days. But you may want to get one if possible. *



I had a 422A and sold it to one of our fellow Head-Fiers. To be honest in my system it wasn't anything special. That said to each his own. Last I heard from the person who I sold it to who runs a Woo Audio WA33 elite edition as well as one of the TOTL dCS DACs they also thought it was okay.

No judgments though. Every single wire and component in one's system is system dependent and user preferences dependent.

If you love the Western Electric 422A then that's wonderful. My view regarding this hobby has been and will continue to be that the gear, equipment and accessories are only a vehicle to enjoy the music.


----------



## UntilThen

RobertSM said:


> No judgments though. Every single wire and component in one's system is system dependent and user preferences dependent.



Amen and never a wiser words spoken. Whilst rectifiers are important, drivers and power tubes have greater influence on the sound and of course the amp itself. That's not even considering the other components in your system.

Get a nice GZ34 and you'll be happy. My next 300b amp will have dual power supply options. SS or tube rectification.


----------



## Coran

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ok, here's my review:
> 
> Conventional rectifiers are all built in a similar fashion, using carbon filaments in between various carbonized plates (I don't recall the specifics).  Normal rectifiers also suffer from "power fade" - like they run out of juice if you're hitting them with loud, hard, fast music.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for this write up! If they ever come back in stock I might strongly consider them.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

RobertSM said:


> Curious about the exact Western Electric rectifiers you're referring to.


I'm referring to my WA 300B's in this case.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Have any of you guys seen one of these 5Z3 before with the unusual slim top mica?
It seems to have a slightly smaller envelope and shorter plates than most 5Z3.


----------



## RobertSM

alvin sawdust said:


> Have any of you guys seen one of these 5Z3 before with the unusual slim top mica?
> It seems to have a slightly smaller envelope and shorter plates than most 5Z3.


Very interesting!

I've never seen one like that.


----------



## alvin sawdust

RobertSM said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> I've never seen one like that.


There are no markings except for 5Z3 on the top of the envelope. Works and sounds ok.


----------



## gibosi

alvin sawdust said:


> Have any of you guys seen one of these 5Z3 before with the unusual slim top mica?
> It seems to have a slightly smaller envelope and shorter plates than most 5Z3.



I have a Fivre 5Z3 that has the same construction. I'll take a picture and upload it later today or tomorrow.


----------



## alvin sawdust

gibosi said:


> I have a Fivre 5Z3 that has the same construction. I'll take a picture and upload it later today or tomorrow.


Thanks gibosi, I had a feeling you might have some input on this


----------



## gibosi

alvin sawdust said:


> Thanks gibosi, I had a feeling you might have some input on this


----------



## alvin sawdust

Thanks gibosi. Mine looks the same except it doesn't have the rods running from top to bottom from the middle of the mica. Apologies for the poor pic.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Yours has the holed plate whereas mine looks like dimples although you can see light through some of them.


----------



## gibosi

alvin sawdust said:


> Yours has the holed plate whereas mine looks like dimples although you can see light through some of them.



My best guess is both were manufactured by Fivre, but at different times. Generally, vertical support rods are characteristic of older construction.


----------



## jbua5150 (Aug 24, 2022)

I have only seen this tube mentioned a few times here.
Here’s my very limited information.
Bendix 6106 rectifier.
Made in Red Bank NJ.
Intended use in Nike SAM missile.
Rated up to 80000’
Very unique plate structure.
There appears to be a ceramic rod in the middle?

Does anyone have sound impressions?
I hope to have this tube tested later this week so I can roll it.

Edit: Tube tests worse than it looks


----------



## Bozz_Keren

Hi, does anyone know if this ultron rebranded brimar?


----------



## Bozz_Keren

Or this one rebranded RCA, is this any good?


----------



## attmci

RobertSM said:


> I had a 422A and sold it to one of our fellow Head-Fiers. To be honest in my system it wasn't anything special. That said to each his own. Last I heard from the person who I sold it to who runs a Woo Audio WA33 elite edition as well as one of the TOTL dCS DACs they also thought it was okay.
> 
> No judgments though. Every single wire and component in one's system is system dependent and user preferences dependent.
> 
> If you love the Western Electric 422A then that's wonderful. My view regarding this hobby has been and will continue to be that the gear, equipment and accessories are only a vehicle to enjoy the music.


I read similar comments from you b4. I totally fine with that. I have more than one pairs of NIB 422A. So，yes, my system and my ears may different than the others. 😂


----------



## pippen99

He sold it to me and it is long gone.  It just did not measure up to the Tak 274B.  I have tried the KR274b, WE 422A, Sovtek 5U4G and USAF 596 and found the Tak superior to all.  I have kept the USAF 596 as backup.  Might try the Elrog 5U4G sometime in the future.


----------



## gibosi

pippen99 said:


> He sold it to me and it is long gone.  It just did not measure up to the Tak 274B.  I have tried the KR274b, WE 422A, Sovtek 5U4G and USAF 596 and found the Tak superior to all.  I have kept the USAF 596 as backup.  Might try the Elrog 5U4G sometime in the future.



As has been written before, there is no such thing as one "super rectifier" that is the absolute best in every system. For sure, the WE 422A shines in some systems, but in others, it's just so-so. So keep this in mind before pulling the trigger, especially if you have never heard this tube in your own system.


----------



## VanHai

Hi gibosi, can you help to decode these TS 5998 tubes and also the measurements?. The seller said that he used amplitrex at 1000 tester where 15500/15500uMhos is new ( i do not speak this language), thanks. They are working beautifully with no noise at all.


----------



## gibosi

VanHai said:


> Hi gibosi, can you help to decode these TS 5998 tubes and also the measurements?. The seller said that he used amplitrex at 1000 tester where 15500/15500uMhos is new ( i do not speak this language), thanks. They are working beautifully with no noise at all.



322 = Tung-sol
5645 = 1956, the 45th week
3 = not sure, but it seems to indicate the factory

I don't own a tester so I can't speak with any real authority about the measurements. But IMHO, the numbers are close and that's a good sign. And since they are "working beautifully with no noise at all" I suggest that you just relax and enjoy.


----------



## VanHai

gibosi said:


> 322 = Tung-sol
> 5645 = 1956, the 45th week
> 3 = not sure, but it seems to indicate the factory
> 
> I don't own a tester so I can't speak with any real authority about the measurements. But IMHO, the numbers are close and that's a good sign. And since they are "working beautifully with no noise at all" I suggest that you just relax and enjoy.


Thank you very much for your help.


----------



## Badas

pippen99 said:


> He sold it to me and it is long gone.  It just did not measure up to the Tak 274B.  I have tried the KR274b, WE 422A, Sovtek 5U4G and USAF 596 and found the Tak superior to all.  I have kept the USAF 596 as backup.  Might try the Elrog 5U4G sometime in the future.



I have done the same thing. Used a lot of different rectifiers and gone back to the Tak 274B. 
I've had two sitting in my drawer for a couple of years. I just dug them out a few weeks ago and have been impressed. 
They are a little lean. However my HP's at the moment are dark. So they suit. 

The Tak 274B does this reverberation thing (very hard to describe) that I haven't heard before on another rectifier. It's a good thing. I like it a lot. It gives a more analogue experience. Every time it does it (only some notes) it makes me smile.


----------



## attmci

gibosi said:


> As has been written before, there is no such thing as one "super rectifier" that is the absolute best in every system. For sure, the WE 422A shines in some systems, but in others, it's just so-so. So keep this in mind before pulling the trigger, especially if you have never heard this tube in your own system.


And that 422A circulated around could be a defect one too. LOL


----------



## WillieB

Anyone in here tried an Elrog 5U4G in an Ampsandsound? I have the Bigger Ben Rev2.


----------



## whirlwind

VanHai said:


> Hi gibosi, can you help to decode these TS 5998 tubes and also the measurements?. The seller said that he used amplitrex at 1000 tester where 15500/15500uMhos is new ( i do not speak this language), thanks. They are working beautifully with no noise at all.


Great snag....don't worry about anything...just enjoy the music with those beauties.


----------



## normie610

Gazza said:


> Shame they're so large as I doubt they would fit in my Manley 300B pre due to the rectifier sockets being very close together


True. I’ve explored Elrog 274B in the past, and went back and forth with their distributor in Singapore regarding the size (and sending them measurements), and they concluded that it definitely won’t fit the Manley. The spacing is just too close.


----------



## DJJEZ

Just ordered 2 x Elrog 5U4G so will be running both Elrog 300B and rectifiers in my red October..Will report back


----------



## jonathan c

Similar question to that of Willie B. Does anyone have experience / comments on using an Elrog 5U4G in a Woo Audio h/p/a? I am thinking about it for WA6SE / WA6…🤔.


----------



## DJJEZ

jonathan c said:


> Similar question to that of Willie B. Does anyone have experience / comments on using an Elrog 5U4G in a Woo Audio h/p/a? I am thinking about it for WA6SE / WA6…🤔.


@ColSaulTigh


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Similar question to that of Willie B. Does anyone have experience / comments on using an Elrog 5U4G in a Woo Audio h/p/a? I am thinking about it for WA6SE / WA6…🤔.


I can test it tonight - any music in specific you want me to check?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> Just ordered 2 x Elrog 5U4G so will be running both Elrog 300B and rectifiers in my red October..Will report back


Red October is on my watch list, so I'm curious in your reaction.


----------



## DJJEZ

ColSaulTigh said:


> Red October is on my watch list, so I'm curious in your reaction.


It's my favourite amp and prefer it to my WA33 JPS Elite


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> It's my favourite amp and prefer it to my WA33 JPS Elite


Is there a "Red October" thread started yet?  I'd love to read impressions.


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 1, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> Is there a "Red October" thread started yet?  I'd love to read impressions.


There is but i have yet to discuss it in detail as im still tube rolling it and i havent met a single other red october owner yet. There are quite a few nautilus owners but i havent met a red october one yet lol

 I'm hoping alot of people get to hear the red october at canjam socal this month.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ampsandsound-red-october-tube-amp.963794/


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> I can test it tonight - any music in specific you want me to check?


Thank you - go through your usual choices. I’d be interested in your impressions.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Thank you - go through your usual choices. I’d be interested in your impressions.


Tonight's battle:

Silver Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/Elrog 5U4G vs. Black Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (A.K.A. "Chernobyl").

Driver tubes are identical quads - GE 13EM7's.  DAC's are identical Musician Pegasuses (Pegasus) w/Synergistic Research Purple Fuses.  Cable is Norne Audio Solvine in High output jacks.  Headphones are ZMF Atrium LTD Bubinga.

FIGHT!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ColSaulTigh said:


> Tonight's battle:
> 
> Silver Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/Elrog 5U4G vs. Black Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (A.K.A. "Chernobyl").
> 
> ...


Edit: Atriums are wearing ZMF Be^2 Hybrid Perforated pads.


----------



## Badas

ColSaulTigh said:


> Tonight's battle:
> 
> Silver Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/Elrog 5U4G vs. Black Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (A.K.A. "Chernobyl").


Why is the Brimar 5Z4GY called "Chernobyl"?
Is it the bass?
I do like the warmth of the Brimar 5Z4GY.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Badas said:


> Why is the Brimar 5Z4GY called "Chernobyl"?
> Is it the bass?
> I do like the warmth of the Brimar 5Z4GY.


Because it gets so hot I think it's going to go into thermal meltdown.  When I first got it I remember being able to feel the heat from 2' away.


----------



## Badas

ColSaulTigh said:


> Because it gets so hot I think it's going to go into thermal meltdown.  When I first got it I remember being able to feel the heat from 2' away.


 They do get hot!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ColSaulTigh said:


> Tonight's battle:
> 
> Silver Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/Elrog 5U4G vs. Black Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (A.K.A. "Chernobyl").
> 
> ...


Ok, Initial thoughts:

1) All things being equal (except for the Rectifier), I do hear a difference, and it's more than just minor
2) The difference boils down to one word - "weight"  The Elrog simply imparts more heft behind everything.  My examples (All music is from Tidal > USB > Pegasuses > Woos):

a. Beethoven Symphony No. 9 in D Minor Op. 125 "Choral" - IV. Finale - Presto (Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra w/ the Mendelsson Choir of Pittsburgh)
--- The opening of this movement with the cellos (after the timpani) really rings "true", with natural reverb echoing in the hall where the recording was done.  With the Brimar you don't get the same resonance of the cello bodies, the bowing isn't as present, and the brass overpowers the strings.
--- The Brimar does a fine job with this piece, to a point.  It doesn't have the same sense of presence with the lower instruments and the midrange tends to be a bit thin.  Brass is a bit brighter due to having not have to work through the strength presented in the low end.  Because of this, it can be a touch fatiguing (not shrill, just harsh).
b. Chick Corea - My Spanish Heart - "Spanish Fantasy pt. 4" - The key here is the piano and drums under the heavy use of synthesizers and brass.  With the Brimar, it becomes very cluttered and mushy.  The Elrog has enough "Oomph" to cleanly push it all through without becoming cloudy.
c. Whitney Houston - "I Will Always Love You" - The richness of her lower register just fills out divinely on the Elrog.  On the Brimar, it's ok, but you KNOW you're listening to a recording.  It's very flat.  The recording is full of wide open studio space.  The Elrog shows it off nicely.  The Brimar feels boxed in.  Too close.
d. ZZ Top - "Sure Got Cold After the Rain Fell" - A personal favorite of mine - this track is great for electric/blues guitar as well as Billy Gibbon's voice.  It's a very close recording, and there's a certain timbre to his voice that comes through on the track.  The guitar can be very harsh because of it's closeness as well, but rings true.  This track is a fantastic example of something that sounds live on one tube and like a recording on another.
e. Mortal Kombat (2022) Soundtrack - "Techno Syndrome (Mortal Kombat)" - If you want to punish a tube, this is it.  LOTS of stuff going on here to push the strength of your tube to the max.  The Brimar just runs out of steam and becomes very muddy.  The Elrog handles it all with finesse.  Towards the middle of the track the voiceunder is announcing the fighter names, and they just come through loud and clear on the Elrog.  On the Brimar they're barely audible.

I could go on, but you get the point.  Your standard Brimar isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I do genuinely feel that the Elrogs are in a class of their own. YMMV.  Should you go out and spend $600+ vs. a $50 Brimar?  That's for you and your wallet to decide.  Is there ten times the improvement?  No.  Is there enough improvement that if money isn't the deciding factor, then I say go for it.  But then again we all know I'm a touch crazy, so....

Winner: Elrog 5U4G

Word of note - do NOT use an Elrog 274B in a Woo Audio WA5-LE.  Something about plate voltage makes them not compatible.  Don't know if the same holds true with the WA6-SE, but I'm not about to risk it.


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Tonight's battle:
> 
> Silver Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/Elrog 5U4G vs. Black Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (A.K.A. "Chernobyl").
> 
> ...


In this corner….[_Ref: ‘OK gentlemen, let’s have a good, clean fight…’]_


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ok, Initial thoughts:
> 
> 1) All things being equal (except for the Rectifier), I do hear a difference, and it's more than just minor
> 2) The difference boils down to one word - "weight"  The Elrog simply imparts more heft behind everything.  My examples (All music is from Tidal > USB > Pegasuses > Woos):
> ...


Thank you, so ! Really informative ! _Gravitas_, heft, force are important to me - not only in _pianoforte_ but in _pianissimo_. To me, these add significant realism to the illusion brought by reproduced music. I will be joining the parts connexion queue 😏…


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Thank you, so ! Really informative ! _Gravitas_, heft, force are important to me - not only in _pianoforte_ but in _pianissimo_. To me, these add significant realism to the illusion brought by reproduced music. I will be joining the parts connexion queue 😏…


I think because their 5U4G architecture is so different than other traditional designs it just sounds better.  Tonally, they're about the same, but it's the weight behind everything that just cleans it up and prevents it from sounding thick and chalky.


----------



## DJJEZ

Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol


Does the amp normally take 5U4G's?  Do you need 274B's instead?  My Woo WA5-LE had the opposite problem.  Choked on the Elrog 274B but loves the 5U4G...


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Does the amp normally take 5U4G's?  Do you need 274B's instead?  My Woo WA5-LE had the opposite problem.  Choked on the Elrog 274B but loves the 5U4G...


Odd isn't it. But your Woo plays with other 274B, right? IIRC it was a rating issue with the power supply where some 274B are incompatible.


----------



## jonathan c

DJJEZ said:


> Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol


That poor little nonal tube…..


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Odd isn't it. But your Woo plays with other 274B, right? IIRC it was a rating issue with the power supply where some 274B are incompatible.


My Woo eats every other 274B I've thrown at it without an issue (Sophia Princess, EML, Takatsuki) as well as the litney of others (Brimar 5U4GB, Mighty 596, 5996, etc.)  It was ONLY the Elrog 274B that flashed out on me.  Instantly.  Could be bad tubes (you know the Elrog curse), but I think it's the draw.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> My Woo eats every other 274B I've thrown at it without an issue (Sophia Princess, EML, Takatsuki) as well as the litney of others (Brimar 5U4GB, Mighty 596, 5996, etc.)  It was ONLY the Elrog 274B that flashed out on me.  Instantly.  Could be bad tubes (you know the Elrog curse), but I think it's the draw.


Eh, that's ok. 274B is below the 5U4G so it was fate.


----------



## CAJames

paradoxper said:


> Odd isn't it. But your Woo plays with other 274B, right? IIRC it was a rating issue with the power supply where some 274B are incompatible.



These days everyone makes up their own tube specs, but the original WE 274B was 2A filament current while the 5U4 needs 3A.


----------



## paradoxper

CAJames said:


> These days everyone makes up their own tube specs, but the original WE 274B was 2A filament current while the 5U4 needs 3A.


That's a little different. This is why 274B isn't a replacement for 5U4G. But many years ago 274B were causing Woo amps to arc.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Elrog 274B Specs:

ELROG 274B Rectifier Tube

Thoriated Tungsten Filament 274B equivalent rectifier.  Meets all 274B standard electrical specifications

*ER274B*

Filament Voltage .................................................................5 V
Filament Current .................................................................2 A
Peak Inverse Voltage .....................................................1500 V
Peak Current per Plate .................................................675 mA
DC Output Current (L-Input) ......................................225 mA
DC Output Current (C-Input) ......................................160 mA


Elrog 5U4G Specs:

*ER5U4G*

Filament Voltage .................................................................5 V
Filament Current .................................................................3 A
Peak Inverse Voltage .....................................................1550 V
Peak Current per Plate ........................................................1 A
DC Output Current (L-Input) ......................................275 mA
DC Output Current (C-Input) ......................................275 mA



Octal base


----------



## ColSaulTigh

5U4G spec:

http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/5u4g.pdf





http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/5u4g.pdf


----------



## Coran (Sep 28, 2022)

I blame (thank) @ColSaulTigh for this...

This is a considerable upgrade from the stock rectifier in the WA22. Now I just need to get some new driver tubes...


----------



## paradoxper

Thomas is going to step in and address their operation parameters.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 28, 2022)

Here is Thomas Mayer's take:










I never understand why people plug different types of rectifiers which are not compatible.

You should always use the rectifier for which a circuit is designed and optimised.

Example:

a 5U4 is designed to deliver more current than a 274. It can also handle a bigger capacitive load in the filter than a 274 ( actually 10 times more)
And it draws 3A filament current instead of 2A.

When you plug in a 274 this happens or can happen

Due to the lower current draw in the filament, the power transformer will deliver more filament voltage to the tube (voltage regulation in the transformer)
This will result in over voltage on the filament which can shorten tube life

A 274 is designed to work into max 4uF capacitive load. if it is loaded more it can flash over at turn on.

If the circuit draws the full current a 5U4 can deliver, the 274 will exceed max specs.

The other way around if you plug a 5U4 into a circuit designed for 274, it will draw 50% more current on the filament winding which can cause the filament transformer to overheat. It will also result in a drop of the filament voltage which again can shorten tube life.

Then both tubes have a different internal voltage drop at the same current which results in different voltages to the amplifier circuit. Most of the differences heard are probably due to the circuit behaving differently with different supply voltages.  This point is much more pronounced when swapping between directly heated rectifiers like 5U4 and 274 and indirectly heated rectifiers like GZ34, GZ37, etc. The latter have much less voltage drop and using these will result in significantly higher voltage to the circuit which can cause damage if the design asks for a directly heated rectifier. The other way around the directly heated rectifiers will not give the slow ramp up of voltage to the circuit which an indirectly heated one does.

Unless the designer knows exactly what he is doing and designs the circuit so that it can cover all these points it is a bad idea to swap these against each other. Then on the other hand if the designer claims that the circuit can use both he probably does not know what he is doing or simply does this for marketing reasons to serve the current trend of tube rolling.

So a complex issue. And my opinion and experience with this (I should not say this as a manufacturer of rectifier tubes): A well designed amp will not change it’s sound appreciably when you use different brands of rectifiers or if the rectifier ages. If it does it is probably sensitive to the supply voltage to the amplifier circuits."


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Coran said:


> I blame (thank) @ColSaulTigh for this...
> 
> This is a considerable upgrade from the stock rectifier in the WA22. Now I just need to get some new driver tubes...


Glad to do my part to bring a little more light into the world, one tube at a time.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Here is Thomas Mayer's take:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks buddy, this is very helpful. Perhaps this is why 5U4Gs never sounded good on my preamp, since I think the circuit was designed with indirect heated rectifiers in mind.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Thanks buddy, this is very helpful. Perhaps this is why 5U4Gs never sounded good on my preamp, since I think the circuit was designed with indirect heated rectifiers in mind.


I believe Thomas has convinced me to stick with GZ34 although I will bring in their 5U4G to scratch the itch. The big sticking point is impacted tube longevity.


----------



## duranxv

DJJEZ said:


> Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol



Now I'm curious about these Elrog 5U4G's in the Nautilus...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Now I'm curious about these Elrog 5U4G's in the Nautilus...


Someone should reach out to Justin @ ampandsound and get his input.


----------



## Basco

paradoxper said:


> Here is Thomas Mayer's take:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input, what does this imply for the WA6-SE as it can by manual „officially“ handle direct & indirect heated tubes line the 5U4G or GZ32/GZ34/GZ37 etc?

Circuits wise is it ok to use both or stick to a certain type?


----------



## paradoxper

Basco said:


> Thanks for the input, what does this imply for the WA6-SE as it can by manual „officially“ handle direct & indirect heated tubes line the 5U4G or GZ32/GZ34/GZ37 etc?
> 
> Circuits wise is it ok to use both or stick to a certain type?


I suspect it will come down to what the input cap value is for each amp when it comes to 274B along with 5U4G otherwise you will end up arcing and/or popping fuses as has been correlated across a few amps.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> Thanks for the input, what does this imply for the WA6-SE as it can by manual „officially“ handle direct & indirect heated tubes line the 5U4G or GZ32/GZ34/GZ37 etc?
> 
> Circuits wise is it ok to use both or stick to a certain type?


When in doubt, call Woo directly, they'll give you some excellent guidance on any specific tube you want to use.

Having said that, My WA6-SE Gen 2's (both of them) have had no issues with any rectifier I've used so far (5U4G, 274B, 596, GZxx, etc.  Maybe I'm lucky.  In fact, the ONLY issue I've ever had that was tube-related was using Elrog 274B's in my Woo WA5-LE, which did not play nice at all.  Elrog 5U4G's work perfectly.  I'm inclined to think I had a bad 274 that was causing the issue, but better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## andypat

Aside from Parts Connexion, does anyone know where I can buy an Elrog 5U4G? I'm in Canada.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

andypat said:


> Aside from Parts Connexion, does anyone know where I can buy an Elrog 5U4G? I'm in Canada.


That's where I get mine from.  Right now, since they're the new hotness, Elrog is having to play catch-up.  Call them and get on the list.  Usually less than 30 days to get them in.  Patience is a virtue.


----------



## andypat

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's where I get mine from.  Right now, since they're the new hotness, Elrog is having to play catch-up.  Call them and get on the list.  Usually less than 30 days to get them in.  Patience is a virtue.


I'll for sure get myself added to the list. i can't wait to try their 5U4G!

And big thanks for all your posts and reviews in this thread, much appreciated!


----------



## marty817

Dear all,
Perhaps one of you can direct me to the photo I seek. I thought I saw a pic somewhere in this 157 p thread of the 5 common U52s that are for generally available; i.e. GEC, MWT, Osram, MOV, Cossor 53UK etc).
Can anyone point me to the specific photo of U52s that I seek? 
Thanks
Marty


----------



## paradoxper

marty817 said:


> Dear all,
> Perhaps one of you can direct me to the photo I seek. I thought I saw a pic somewhere in this 157 p thread of the 5 common U52s that are for generally available; i.e. GEC, MWT, Osram, MOV, Cossor 53UK etc).
> Can anyone point me to the specific photo of U52s that I seek?
> Thanks
> Marty


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...ifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/post-15173960


----------



## marty817

paradoxper said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...ifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/post-15173960


Ding, ding ding! We have a winner!! Thanks. That's was the photo I sought.



leftside said:


> Can anyone help me identify this tube? It's larger than the GEC tubes I just posted, and has a side saucer getter:


The staggered plates and side getter suggest a Cossor 53KU but I may be wrong. What is the height?

*"Introduced in 1948, this octal based indirectly heated full wave rectifier in which the reservoir capacitor should never exceed 16μF and to avoid peak current spikes and minimum load series resistance of at least 75 Ohms is recommended. Let's start with the exquisite electrode structure which has a beautiful staggered parallelogram twin anode cage. Each anode within the cage is pressed to shape and stitched together enclosing the anode support rod. The top mica shows the oval cathodes and a sequence of insulated heater wires that pass the length of the cathode four times. To the rear of the staggered cages we have the elegant swan neck getter plate all contained within a gorgeous full baluster envelope – it looks like no other rectifier and so my ears sounds like no other too. The envelope rides on a beautiful curved micanol base ala KT66. The classic envelope is 56 mm in diameter, and excluding the IO base pins is 122 mm tall."

Also see: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv378.html*



adamaley said:


> Welcome to a treasure trove of information. I've been in and out of here since my days with a DNA Srtatus but I've read this entire thread from beginning to end this week since I'm looking for rectifiers for a Lampi Golden Gate. I currently have a Take 274B, RK5U4G, and USAF 596- out of which I prefer the 596. I'm looking to receive an RK60 and a Brimar 5z4gy soon and scouring the web for a U52 all thanks to this thread.


You may be interested in my Lampi rectifier search (GG2 and Horizon) here: see post #605
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lampizator-horizon-tube-rolling-paradise.34477/page-31


----------



## gibosi

marty817 said:


> Ding, ding ding! We have a winner!! Thanks. That's was the photo I sought.



But keep in mind, they are all the same. Except for the fact that they were manufactured at different times, they were all manufactured in the very same factory. 

And I'm sure you will be happy with any of them, so my advice is go for the best deal. 



marty817 said:


> The staggered plates and side getter suggest a Cossor 53KU but I may be wrong. What is the height?
> 
> *"Introduced in 1948, this octal based indirectly heated full wave rectifier in which the reservoir capacitor should never exceed 16μF and to avoid peak current spikes and minimum load series resistance of at least 75 Ohms is recommended. Let's start with the exquisite electrode structure which has a beautiful staggered parallelogram twin anode cage. Each anode within the cage is pressed to shape and stitched together enclosing the anode support rod. The top mica shows the oval cathodes and a sequence of insulated heater wires that pass the length of the cathode four times. To the rear of the staggered cages we have the elegant swan neck getter plate all contained within a gorgeous full baluster envelope – it looks like no other rectifier and so my ears sounds like no other too. The envelope rides on a beautiful curved micanol base ala KT66. The classic envelope is 56 mm in diameter, and excluding the IO base pins is 122 mm tall."
> 
> Also see: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv378.html*



To my eyes, it's a Cossor 53KU, the "original" CV378.


----------



## CAJames

gibosi said:


> To my eyes, it's a Cossor 53KU, the "original" CV378.


Agree.


----------



## mourip

gibosi said:


> But keep in mind, they are all the same. Except for the fact that they were manufactured at different times, they were all manufactured in the very same factory.
> 
> And I'm sure you will be happy with any of them, so my advice is go for the best deal.


"*in which the reservoir capacitor should never exceed 16μF"*

I would imagine that this would limit it's use in many modern circuits in the same way as a 274A?


----------



## gibosi

mourip said:


> "*in which the reservoir capacitor should never exceed 16μF"*
> 
> I would imagine that this would limit it's use in many modern circuits in the same way as a 274A?



The Cossor 53KU is a very popular rectifier, and if this was a problem, I think we would have seen multiple reports of these rectifiers failing. Nothing.

FWIW, I've been running one in a Glenn OTL for several years. Works fine and sounds great.


----------



## 30love

Just wonderful information just what I needed to hear now I can take my time in making a decision mu preamp takes 5aR4/GZ34/CV1377/5v4G/5t4/5y3 any quick good suggestions thanks.


----------



## gibosi

30love said:


> Just wonderful information just what I needed to hear now I can take my time in making a decision mu preamp takes 5aR4/GZ34/CV1377/5v4G/5t4/5y3 any quick good suggestions thanks.



A good place to start is page one of this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...fer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/#post-10053310


----------



## mourip (Oct 24, 2022)

gibosi said:


> The Cossor 53KU is a very popular rectifier, and if this was a problem, I think we would have seen multiple reports of these rectifiers failing. Nothing.
> 
> FWIW, I've been running one in a Glenn OTL for several years. Works fine and sounds great.


Glad to hear that. Perhaps recent circuits tend to have a slow turn on feature which avoids having the first capacitor pull too much current to charge it which then exceeds the specs of the rectifier?


----------



## gibosi

mourip said:


> Glad to hear that. Perhaps recent circuits tend to have a slow turn on feature which avoids having the first capacitor pull too much current to charge it which then exceeds the specs of the rectifier?



This might be true in some cases. But the Glenn OTL is old-school. To my knowledge, there is no special circuitry in this amp to accomplish what you describe. Again, given the very wide variety of equipment used by contributers to this forum and the popularity of the 53KU, I think we would have seen reports of these rectifiers failing, if this was a problem. But I will never criticize anyone for being cautious.


----------



## UntilThen

Never had any problems using 53ku in Odyssey. I consulted Tomas the builder before using any tubes. The 53ku has the most texture and bass of all my rectifiers. It gets rotated with gz32, gz34, 5u4g, 596.


----------



## mourip

gibosi said:


> This might be true in some cases. But the Glenn OTL is old-school. To my knowledge, there is no special circuitry in this amp to accomplish what you describe. Again, given the very wide variety of equipment used by contributers to this forum and the popularity of the 53KU, I think we would have seen reports of these rectifiers failing, if this was a problem. But I will never criticize anyone for being cautious.


Thanks. I have a Lampizator  Baltic 3 DAC which uses 5v rectifiers. I have been using a Sophia Aqua 274B rectifier which was designed to handle a larger first capacitor than a normal 274B. So far it is the best rectifier that I have rolled. Currently I am trying a Brimar KB/FE 5Z4GY (CV1863) that I got from the UK after a postal strike slowed down shipping quite a bit. Sounds good so far but I just started listening to it.


----------



## P+D-MI

I had a local shop test an RCA 5u4g for me on their Amplitrex AT1000, but they couldn't tell me if they were good numbers. Can anyone tell me if the following number are good?  A fwd: 62v peak, B fwd: 61v peak, A rev: 427v peak, B rev: 428v. Thanks


----------



## ColSaulTigh

P+D-MI said:


> I had a local shop test an RCA 5u4g for me on their Amplitrex AT1000, but they couldn't tell me if they were good numbers. Can anyone tell me if the following number are good?  A fwd: 62v peak, B fwd: 61v peak, A rev: 427v peak, B rev: 428v. Thanks













Mix of RCA and Tung-Sol data, but they should measure the same.


----------



## P+D-MI

Hey thanks. I don't know why I didn't think to look at the datasheet.


----------



## kkrazik2008

I got an Elrog 5U4G today……it was so silent I could not believe what I was hearing. That’s because it blew the fuse on my amp 🥲

Amp is DNA Stratus, and have two buddies who bought the Elrog 5U4G last year with no issues, anyone else run into this fresh out of the box? Already contacted PCX, figured I would ask the collective while I wait to hear back from them. I also didn’t have a back up fuse so amp is out of commission until a new fuse arrives


----------



## pippen99

I have been watching the PCX website for weeks


kkrazik2008 said:


> I got an Elrog 5U4G today……it was so silent I could not believe what I was hearing. That’s because it blew the fuse on my amp 🥲
> 
> Amp is DNA Stratus, and have two buddies who bought the Elrog 5U4G last year with no issues, anyone else run into this fresh out of the box? Already contacted PCX, figured I would ask the collective while I wait to hear back from them. I also didn’t have a back up fuse so amp is out of commission until a new fuse arrives



.  These do not show available.  How were you able to obtain one?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

kkrazik2008 said:


> I got an Elrog 5U4G today……it was so silent I could not believe what I was hearing. That’s because it blew the fuse on my amp 🥲
> 
> Amp is DNA Stratus, and have two buddies who bought the Elrog 5U4G last year with no issues, anyone else run into this fresh out of the box? Already contacted PCX, figured I would ask the collective while I wait to hear back from them. I also didn’t have a back up fuse so amp is out of commission until a new fuse arrives


I had this happen with an Elrog 274B fresh out of the box.  Thomas Meyer (Elrog) confirmed it was a defective tube.  Filament broke, presumably from transport.  PCX has EXCELLENT customer support - give them a call and/or send them an email - they'll get you squared away.


----------



## kkrazik2008

ColSaulTigh said:


> I had this happen with an Elrog 274B fresh out of the box.  Thomas Meyer (Elrog) confirmed it was a defective tube.  Filament broke, presumably from transport.  PCX has EXCELLENT customer support - give them a call and/or send them an email - they'll get you squared away.


Thanks, I figured it had to be something internal like that as the outside glass and base was perfect. I have a message in with Chris already, good to know what to expect. Thanks again!


----------



## kkrazik2008

pippen99 said:


> I have been watching the PCX website for weeks
> 
> 
> .  These do not show available.  How were you able to obtain one?


They are usually sold out upon receiving according to their team, I emailed and they had a waiting list with a deposit.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

kkrazik2008 said:


> They are usually sold out upon receiving according to their team, I emailed and they had a waiting list with a deposit.


Yep.  Call/email them and get on the waiting list.  Elrog can't make them fast enough...


----------



## paradoxper

kkrazik2008 said:


> I got an Elrog 5U4G today……it was so silent I could not believe what I was hearing. That’s because it blew the fuse on my amp 🥲
> 
> Amp is DNA Stratus, and have two buddies who bought the Elrog 5U4G last year with no issues, anyone else run into this fresh out of the box? Already contacted PCX, figured I would ask the collective while I wait to hear back from them. I also didn’t have a back up fuse so amp is out of commission until a new fuse arrives


Thomas thinks it may have been a ripped filament. PCX will definitely take care of you.


----------



## kkrazik2008

Thanks for some context, are you aware if this is due to shipping or something else?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

kkrazik2008 said:


> Thanks for some context, are you aware if this is due to shipping or something else?


It's an unusual circumstance.  Most likely happened during some rough handling by the local carrier.  We'll never know for sure, but certainly nothing to hold against Elrog.  Their QC issues is old went away with the takeover by Thomas Meyer.


----------



## kkrazik2008

ColSaulTigh said:


> It's an unusual circumstance.  Most likely happened during some rough handling by the local carrier.  We'll never know for sure, but certainly nothing to hold against Elrog.  Their QC issues is old went away with the takeover by Thomas Meyer.


Oh definitely not holding against Elrog, was trying to get some perspective as it could be a roll of the dice if shipping is the source. I have shipped and received a lot of tubes, rectifiers, power, input and not had a problem. Usually with less than ideal packing too, if this one is more delicate and shipping can jack it up then I know what to expect should a replacement be sent out. That’s what I was trying to understand.


----------



## paradoxper

kkrazik2008 said:


> Thanks for some context, are you aware if this is due to shipping or something else?


As the fuse blew rather than the amp melting, he suggested a ripped filament that shorted to the plate typically from shipping damage.


----------



## pippen99

Elroy ER5U4G is back in stock at Parts ConneXion.  My order has been placed.  Hope all the praise heaped on this is deserved.


----------



## RobertSM

pippen99 said:


> Elroy ER5U4G is back in stock at Parts ConneXion.  My order has been placed.  Hope all the praise heaped on this is deserved.


Please share your thoughts once you've had a bit of time to evaluate.


----------



## pippen99

Ordered this morning.  Notice of shipment this afternoon.  Parts ConneXion is great to deal with.


----------



## kkrazik2008

pippen99 said:


> Ordered this morning.  Notice of shipment this afternoon.  Parts ConneXion is great to deal with.


Yes they are, my faulty tube is going to be swapped out as a few of you had suggested. Still, if shipping is the cause for the issue then one must rely on a hope and prayer the second does not get manhandled by FedEx. Looking forward to the new one coming in and using it in my amp 🥹


----------



## MetalVGAnime

Hello, has anyone here by any chance had the opportunity to try out the Cossor KU-52 (or 52KU) in their tube amp or perhaps another component in their audio chain? It seems like this one might be similar to the Cossor GZ37/53KU (even though the 52KU is technically supposed to be a GZ32 tube) but I've not been able to find very much information regarding this particular tube in terms of how it might compare to some of the more revered and venerable high-end rectifiers like the aforementioned Cossor 53KU or really top-of-the-line tubes like the Western Electric 422a and U52.


----------



## lumdicks

MetalVGAnime said:


> Hello, has anyone here by any chance had the opportunity to try out the Cossor KU-52 (or 52KU) in their tube amp or perhaps another component in their audio chain? It seems like this one might be similar to the Cossor GZ37/53KU (even though the 52KU is technically supposed to be a GZ32 tube) but I've not been able to find very much information regarding this particular tube in terms of how it might compare to some of the more revered and venerable high-end rectifiers like the aforementioned Cossor 53KU or really top-of-the-line tubes like the Western Electric 422a and U52.


GZ37 is a good rectifier with a bit soft and neutral sound when compared to 422A and U52. It depends on synergy with other components of the chain but I find it somewhat boring. On the other hand, the 52KU is an excellent tube comparable to other TOTL rectifiers with good dynamics and balanced sound.


----------



## MetalVGAnime (Dec 23, 2022)

lumdicks said:


> GZ37 is a good rectifier with a bit soft and neutral sound when compared to 422A and U52. It depends on synergy with other components of the chain but I find it somewhat boring. On the other hand, the 52KU is an excellent tube comparable to other TOTL rectifiers with good dynamics and balanced sound.


Thank you for sharing your experience with using the Cossor 52KU. It just seems like its quite a rare (and expensive) tube that not many people have used in their audio gear compared to some of the other more desirable and easily obtainable ones. Its definitely helpful to know that you would consider it near the top of the list as far as rectifiers go within your system as I've really not heard much feedback regarding this tube here or on other forums online. Would you consider it warmer/cooler or more/less resolving compared with say something like the more well-known and widely available NOS vintage Mullard GZ34 (any version you might be familiar with)? If you might have tried the Mullards, would you consider the KU52 a superior tube that is closer in performance to the 422a or U52?


----------



## lumdicks (Dec 23, 2022)

MetalVGAnime said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience with using the Cossor 52KU. It just seems like its quite a rare tube that not many people have used in their audio gear compared to some of the other more desirable and easily obtainable ones. Its definitely helpful to know that you would consider it near the top of the list as far as rectifiers go within your system as I've really not heard much feedback regarding this tube here or on other forums online. Would you consider it warmer/cooler or more/less resolving compared with say something like the more well-known and widely available NOS vintage Mullard GZ34 (any version you might be familiar with)? If you might have tried the Mullards, would you consider the KU52 a superior tube that is closer in performance to the 422a or U52?


I have the metal base GZ34 and it is one of my best love rectifier indeed. GZ34 metal base is having the best dynamics and darkness background, and is legendary at its own league. As comparison I would say that KU52 is sounding similar to U52 so if you can get one at good price, you will not regret on this.


----------



## Basco

lumdicks said:


> I have the metal base GZ34 and it is one of my best love rectifier indeed. GZ34 metal base is having the best dynamics and darkness background, and is legendary at its own league. As comparison I would say that KU52 is sounding similar to U52 (KU52 is structurally identical to U52, and produced by MOV for Mullard / Cossor) so if you can get one at good price, you will not regret on this.


Hey really nice lineup you have there. Can you share some impressions about the WE 422A?

I discovered one and are unsure if the Elrog 5U4G might also be a good opportunity?
🙏


----------



## lumdicks

Basco said:


> Hey really nice lineup you have there. Can you share some impressions about the WE 422A?
> 
> I discovered one and are unsure if the Elrog 5U4G might also be a good opportunity?
> 🙏


I have not used Elrog 5U4G but seems that many users such as @ColSaulTigh likes it a lot. I only has experience on Elrog 300B of which I think it is the best 300B, no matter current production or NOS.

422A is a very powerful and dynamic rectifier with typical "Western Electic" taste. However, it needs more time to heat up to optimal performance. Besides, if you are unlucky you may come across a noisy 422A quite easily.


----------



## Basco

lumdicks said:


> I have not used Elrog 5U4G but seems that many users such as @ColSaulTigh likes it a lot. I only has experience on Elrog 300B of which I think it is the best 300B, no matter current production or NOS.
> 
> 422A is a very powerful and dynamic rectifier with typical "Western Electic" taste. However, it needs more time to heat up to optimal performance. Besides, if you are unlucky you may come across a noisy 422A quite easily.


Hey thanks for your impressions 🍀

Yeah I know @ColSaulTigh loves the ERs ✨💡
So you would rate the ER300B over the WE 300B? Maybe that can be deduced for the 5U4Gs also then as there is a certain “house sound” to the tubes?


----------



## lumdicks

Basco said:


> Hey thanks for your impressions 🍀
> 
> Yeah I know @ColSaulTigh loves the ERs ✨💡
> So you would rate the ER300B over the WE 300B? Maybe that can be deduced for the 5U4Gs also then as there is a certain “house sound” to the tubes?


Yes. I once had current WE300B and still have 2 pairs of 60s vintage WE300B. I also has a pair of Takatsuki and out of these, I love the Elrog 300B most.


----------



## Clear Water

kkrazik2008 said:


> Thanks for some context, are you aware if this is due to shipping or something else?


Before you send the tube back, try changing the fuse on the Stratus to a slow-blow, 2.5A.  When I first got the Elrog it blew the fuse on my Stratus as well, and it seems that this is a relatively common occurrence.  Donald has OK'ed this higher spec fuse with Elrog tubes.  Since switching to a higher rated fuse I haven't had any issues.


----------



## kkrazik2008

Clear Water said:


> Before you send the tube back, try changing the fuse on the Stratus to a slow-blow, 2.5A.  When I first got the Elrog it blew the fuse on my Stratus as well, and it seems that this is a relatively common occurrence.  Donald has OK'ed this higher spec fuse with Elrog tubes.  Since switching to a higher rated fuse I haven't had any issues.



Thanks for the tip, I chatted with Donald the day it blew my fuses and he suggested the same. I promptly ordered more fuses and included a 2.5A fuse which also blew. Basically blew 4 fuses, if they were those audiophile $100+ fuses I would have been quite pissed.  The defective Elrog is already heading across the border and PCX have confirmed they will rest the replacement they are sending out. 

I appreciate you sharing your experience, I have a hunch there are more of us who experienced this and not sharing as it’s a negative experience. To be Frank I don’t understand why folks tend to not be as forthcoming on small stuff like this, especially when it’s on an expensive rectifier tube. 

While some may think I am harping on this a bit too much, I am and that is because attached is what my fuse looked like after it blew with the Elrog. So think of how this $0.50 saved my precious Stratus, and to think that this is normal specs or caused from a rough shipping is suspect to say the least.

I am looking forward to the replacement when it arrives, and hoping it has a place along with my U52, EML Mesh, and Sylvania VT rectifiers.


----------



## gibosi

kkrazik2008 said:


> Thanks for the tip, I chatted with Donald the day it blew my fuses and he suggested the same. I promptly ordered more fuses and included a 2.5A fuse which also blew. Basically blew 4 fuses, if they were those audiophile $100+ fuses I would have been quite pissed.  The defective Elrog is already heading across the border and PCX have confirmed they will rest the replacement they are sending out.
> 
> I appreciate you sharing your experience, I have a hunch there are more of us who experienced this and not sharing as it’s a negative experience. To be Frank I don’t understand why folks tend to not be as forthcoming on small stuff like this, especially when it’s on an expensive rectifier tube.
> 
> ...



Vacuum tubes are consumables. And therefore, they eventually fail. And the fuse is also a consumable. In fact, it is designed to fail in order to protect your amp from failed tubes. So I believe it is wise to keep a supply of fuses on hand just in case.


----------



## kkrazik2008

gibosi said:


> Vacuum tubes are consumables. And therefore, they eventually fail. And the fuse is also a consumable. In fact, it is designed to fail in order to protect your amp from failed tubes. So I believe it is wise to keep a supply of fuses on hand just in case.


Yeah I know what the fuse is supposed to do, and thank god it did. I have 120 fuses now, just in case all those consumables fail me again and yes I am being a bit sarcastic here.
This hobby is a luxury, please don't mistake my push back for experiences as being naive around what is consumable and what is not. I am not bitching, or complaining, rather sharing my experience so others are aware. Others may disagree about how I am approaching it, and that is their prerogative.


----------



## David222

kkrazik2008 said:


> Thanks for the tip, I chatted with Donald the day it blew my fuses and he suggested the same. I promptly ordered more fuses and included a 2.5A fuse which also blew. Basically blew 4 fuses, if they were those audiophile $100+ fuses I would have been quite pissed.  The defective Elrog is already heading across the border and PCX have confirmed they will rest the replacement they are sending out.
> 
> I appreciate you sharing your experience, I have a hunch there are more of us who experienced this and not sharing as it’s a negative experience. To be Frank I don’t understand why folks tend to not be as forthcoming on small stuff like this, especially when it’s on an expensive rectifier tube.
> 
> ...




Why at this price point are the Elrogs not tested (QC) before shipped to consumers with expensive gear?  

Sounds like a high stakes Roulette game  - not sure why anyone would take this gamble with top of the line gear if common occurrence ??


----------



## paradoxper

David222 said:


> Why at this price point are the Elrogs not tested (QC) before shipped to consumers with expensive gear?
> 
> Sounds like a high stakes Roulette game  - not sure why anyone would take this gamble with top of the line gear if common occurrence ??


They are tested from Elrog before shipped to dealers. You might ask Chris or Tania if PCX can perform extra testing before they're dispatched.


----------



## gkg2k

Personally, I have never had a single problem with NOS or used rectifiers that are up to 80 years old and shipped in from all over the world, even in a way that is not fully 'dampened'. I find it absolutely astonishing that an Elrog rectifier should arrive not working or in a condition that could damage the amplifier. I believe that the quality control system should and can improve. I will wait a few months before buying a pair of the much vaunted Elrog 5U4G!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

To chime in, I've been vocal about the issue I had with a defective Elrog 274B.  Bear in mind that the Elrog use a different filament made from Thoriated Tungsten instead of the standard oxide coated filaments.  These filaments are thinner and more susceptible to damage during shipping.

Remember, these come from Germany to your distributor, then from the distributor to you.  Lots of handling before they reach you.

I'm addition, Elrog is a reborn company.  I'm it's previous life they did suffer from quality control issues.  Since Thomas z Meyer bought the company, QC has greatly improved.  They are aware of the reputation they need to overcome and go out of their way to resolve any issue.  There is no extraordinary failure rate, just a couple of bad tubes.  PcX was great about swapping my tubes, and I've enjoyed mine ever since.


----------



## TLO (Dec 24, 2022)

Unfortunately, sometimes it is just pure bad luck. I have bought hundreds of tubes from all over the world, from the states, Europe, China to Japan, etc. Almost all are packed very well except at one time, a pair of 9 pins miniature is packed in a simple letter envelop with no bubble wrap, they turned out ok...go figure...lol

WISH ALL A MERRY CHRISTMAS n A WONDERFUL HOLIDAY!!!


----------



## Meme123

lumdicks said:


> I have the metal base GZ34 and it is one of my best love rectifier indeed. GZ34 metal base is having the best dynamics and darkness background, and is legendary at its own league. As comparison I would say that KU52 is sounding similar to U52 so if you can get one at good price, you will not regret on this.


----------



## Meme123

hello lumdicks
i had over 50 rectifiers , but never had chance to test WE 274B, can you share impression of WE274B vs WE422A and metal base GZ34  pre 55
i had 5/6 various variations of GZ34 metal (include Matsushita metal)  from top to bottom
1- pre 52-53-54 RSB, single disc getter , amazing mid, simply BEST , viceral , neutral, tonal balance on warm  side and very smooth, NOTHING can beat it, ( not hear WE274B and Elrog and tak ), but better overall than WE422A,base is very solid and depth
2- 55 RSB twin D getter, tight good transparent , mid is clean, fast like SS, vase is nice
3- Matsushita metal, marvelous musically and smooth , second to pre GZ34, mid is very nice
4- 6M MNA single disc getter ( died), not remember much , but mid is very nice and high is smooth, base is tight 
5- TV1 56H twin Dn getter, not worth buying mid is cloud , high little harsh, base not really ssolid
6- TV2 57E  twin D getter, not worth buying same as sister TV1

note: adding
...  second to metal GZ34:  GZ34 fat base f31 xxx, only two variations fat base worth buying is Mullard with rectangle and rectangle round metal weld on plate just bellow top , both are very nice , warm side an very mucically listen, almost up to top tier rectifiers, and also early of GZ34 f31 xxx belgium Sittard black base is better than two tv1-tv2 metal base,
anyway, this is my personnal impression of ALL variation GZ34 i had and listen via WA6se , WA5LE mk1 , also thanks to Dubstep and i agreed to all review on first page

regards


----------



## David222

Meme123 said:


> hello lumdicks
> i had over 50 rectifiers , but never had chance to test WE 274B, can you share impression of WE274B vs WE422A and metal base GZ34  pre 55
> i had 5/6 various variations of GZ34 metal (include Matsushita metal)  from top to bottom
> 1- pre 52-53-54 RSB, single disc getter , amazing mid, simply BEST , viceral , neutral, tonal balance on warm  side and very smooth, NOTHING can beat it, ( not hear WE274B and Elrog and tak ), but better overall than WE422A,base is very solid and depth
> ...



I believe the 5AR4 (non metal base) you are referring to is Philips made / Holland.  Specifically, the Sittard plant which is the "x" code.  This is an f31 from 1958.


----------



## Meme123

David222 said:


> I believe the 5AR4 (non metal base) you are referring to is Philips made / Holland.  Specifically, the Sittard plant which is the "x" code.  This is an f31 from 1958.



yup sorry, is Holland made , and the second  photo is for ref. to fat base GZ34 , mine is rectangle metal weld , can not find the rectangle round corner at this moment, but both is same


----------



## Meme123

Meme123 said:


> yup sorry, is Holland made , and the second  photo is for ref. to fat base GZ34 , mine is rectangle metal weld , can not find the rectangle round corner at this moment, but both is same


and this for the rare matsushita metal bas GZ34 , ref to page 48 of the book " Audio book of the past and present" by Hisashi Ohsuka, Matsushita did produced an early version of Metal 5AR4 , and is sound very nice with : Jazz, Blue , classic, vocal compare with early CV717/5R4GY brimar with duo 45 deg angle getter version ( both are extrem rare now to find)


----------



## gibosi

Meme123 said:


> and this for the rare matsushita metal bas GZ34 , ref to page 48 of the book " Audio book of the past and present" by Hisashi Ohsuka, Matsushita did produced an early version of Metal 5AR4 , and is sound very nice with : Jazz, Blue , classic, vocal compare with early CV717/5R4GY brimar with duo 45 deg angle getter version ( both are extrem rare now to find)



I am happy to have this information. 

I have one of these Matsushita metal GZ34 and I have always thought it was originally manufactured in Eindhoven and Matsushita simply relabeled it. I have also seen black-base Matsushita GZ34 with the same tooling. Have you heard them?


----------



## Meme123

gibosi said:


> I am happy to have this information.
> 
> I have one of these Matsushita metal GZ34 and I have always thought it was originally manufactured in Eindhoven and Matsushita simply relabeled it. I have also seen black-base Matsushita GZ34 with the same tooling. Have you heard them?


Sorry, never listen or buy orther black base version of Matsushita 
and what do you think about Metal GZ34 Matsushita? i like it alot  and never have a chance to know impressions or reviews of WE274 A/B 
regards


----------



## gibosi

Meme123 said:


> Sorry, never listen or buy orther black base version of Matsushita
> and what do you think about Metal GZ34 Matsushita? i like it alot  and never have a chance to know impressions or reviews of WE274 A/B
> regards



I like the Metal Matsushita a lot too. One of my favorites. But sorry, I don't have the WE274 for comparison....


----------



## Meme123

gibosi said:


> I like the Metal Matsushita a lot too. One of my favorites. But sorry, I don't have the WE274 for comparison....


Hello gibosi
i know you had alot, i mean alot of rectifiers tube
i collected fews and personally best out of each category
1- Metal early GZ34
2-WE422A little dry ( PERFECT in any sense but little dry in my taste)
3- ALL U52 and the best is early U52 with top plate getter so smooth and i had rare invert arrow cup getter
4- tungsol 5U4G the one with plate top getter, never listen to mullard 5U4G ( i think you have few )
5- CV717/5R4GY brimar with duo 45 DEG angle is BEST
6- the rest from good to better but not BEST

*** my personnal impression ANY PLATE getters version is early use from manufacturing after WW1 and sound more smooth from low to high and very musically sounding tube ***

note:  hope you can do a SHOW me your tubes collection, so we can open eyes to scare and rare rectifiers

best regards and happy new year comming
sorry for my bad english, i'm french from Montreal


gibosi said:


> I like the Metal Matsushita a lot too. One of my favorites. But sorry, I don't have the WE274 for comparison....


----------



## gibosi

Meme123 said:


> ref to page 48 of the book " Audio book of the past and present" by Hisashi Ohsuka,



I have not been able to find this on the internet. Could you provide a link?


----------



## gibosi

Meme123 said:


> note: hope you can do a SHOW me your tubes collection, so we can open eyes to scare and rare rectifiers



Private message sent.


----------



## MetalVGAnime

Meme123 said:


> hello lumdicks
> i had over 50 rectifiers , but never had chance to test WE 274B, can you share impression of WE274B vs WE422A and metal base GZ34  pre 55
> i had 5/6 various variations of GZ34 metal (include Matsushita metal)  from top to bottom
> 1- pre 52-53-54 RSB, single disc getter , amazing mid, simply BEST , viceral , neutral, tonal balance on warm  side and very smooth, NOTHING can beat it, ( not hear WE274B and Elrog and tak ), but better overall than WE422A,base is very solid and depth
> ...



That's interesting to hear about the differences in sound quality between the various metal base GZ34's. Sorry I'm not really familiar with reading tube codes but were the RSB tubes possibly manufactured in a different country or factory from the metal base GZ34's with the TV code?

I had heard that the Holland Philips GZ34's might be a bit cooler sounding (more airy) compared to the British Mullard GZ34's which are supposed to have a warmer/denser tone. It would seem that even amongst the metal base GZ 34's which are regarded as the best sounding GZ 34's, the ones with earlier manufacture dates are probably better sounding than those that have been manufactured later? Can others who might have had a chance to try out multiple metal base GZ 34's of different varieties attest to hearing similar or significant differences in sound quality or signature when comparing between Philips/Mullard/Matsushita or earlier versions of these tubes to the later production ones?


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## Meme123

MetalVGAnime said:


> That's interesting to hear about the differences in sound quality between the various metal base GZ34's. Sorry I'm not really familiar with reading tube codes but were the RSB tubes possibly manufactured in a different country or factory from the metal base GZ34's with the TV code?
> 
> I had heard that the Holland Philips GZ34's might be a bit cooler sounding (more airy) compared to the British Mullard GZ34's which are supposed to have a warmer/denser tone. It would seem that even amongst the metal base GZ 34's which are regarded as the best sounding GZ 34's, the ones with earlier manufacture dates are probably better sounding than those that have been manufactured later? Can others who might have had a chance to try out multiple metal base GZ 34's of different varieties attest to hearing similar or significant differences in sound quality or signature when comparing between Philips/Mullard/Matsushita or earlier versions of these tubes to the later production ones?


indeed you're right about Holland made GZ34 was a bit cooler VS British Mullard (fat base) warm and cozy , but very early metal base from Phillips with single plate getter was different beast, they're sound just everything right you throw in : Jazz, EDM, Metal, blue , pop, rock .. and sound soo smooth from low to high without exagerated ,  not dry, not warm, not thin, not harsh, very liquid and musical listening, for vocal and jazz, i do prefer fat base Mullard f31 with CV717/5R4GY from brimar as mention above.
Until date early GZ34 still one of the most robust valve and still very high rate amounts of rectifiers , i wish just have a chance to listen to WE274B ans British STC 4274B
regards


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## musicinmymind

Meme123 said:


> indeed you're right about Holland made GZ34 was a bit cooler VS British Mullard (fat base) warm and cozy , but very early metal base from Phillips with single plate getter was different beast, they're sound just everything right you throw in : Jazz, EDM, Metal, blue , pop, rock .. and sound soo smooth from low to high without exagerated ,  not dry, not warm, not thin, not harsh, very liquid and musical listening, for vocal and jazz, i do prefer fat base Mullard f31 with CV717/5R4GY from brimar as mention above.
> Until date early GZ34 still one of the most robust valve and still very high rate amounts of rectifiers , i wish just have a chance to listen to WE274B ans British STC 4274B
> regards



Do you pic of  single plate getter, difficult to understand without pic.


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## Meme123

musicinmymind said:


> Do you pic of  single plate getter, difficult to understand without pic.


first picture is sample of very early U52, the 5U4G tungsol had similar metal square or rectangle "plate" getter on top of valve/tubes
two orther is sample of my 53 and 55 RSB round metal  getter plier 90 degre ( not weld like double D or double O getter)
note: due to the nature of flash cover almost 100% it's very hard to see , even with flash light
let's said 85% of the time RSB 52-55 metal base GZ34 was made with metal plate getter and flash turn to dark brown and not mirror look like brand new (mirror flash)
and orther variations DOES NOT turn to dark brown due to nature of D and O getter

hope is help,regards


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## musicinmymind

Meme123 said:


> first picture is sample of very early U52, the 5U4G tungsol had similar metal square or rectangle "plate" getter on top of valve/tubes
> two orther is sample of my 53 and 55 RSB round metal  getter plier 90 degre ( not weld like double D or double O getter)
> note: due to the nature of flash cover almost 100% it's very hard to see , even with flash light
> let's said 85% of the time RSB 52-55 metal base GZ34 was made with metal plate getter and flash turn to dark brown and not mirror look like brand new (mirror flash)
> ...



Thanks for taking time for pic and details, as I understood this ebay tube does not qualify as round metal is weld and not 90 degree.
I am correct?


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## Meme123

i see valvo on ebay from italy seller, very hard to see code on metal base and also getter under flash, it's better to ask direct seller to confirm "plain metal getter" and NOT double D or double O getters then you are set for a nice listening
But you can see plenty of TV1-2 with double "D" and "O", better spend your hard earning money of fat base Mullard ( need to had metal weld direct on one of the plate , location top) like photo above
hope you can get one soon, best regards


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## gibosi

Meme123 said:


> i see valvo on ebay from italy seller, very hard to see code on metal base and also getter under flash, it's better to ask direct seller to confirm "plain metal getter" and NOT double D or double O getters then you are set for a nice listening
> But you can see plenty of TV1-2 with double "D" and "O", better spend your hard earning money of fat base Mullard ( need to had metal weld direct on one of the plate , location top) like photo above
> hope you can get one soon, best regards



Or put another way, look for black-base "f30" and "f31" GZ34's manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory and Philips' Sittard factory.


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## Meme123

gibosi said:


> Or put another way, look for black-base "f30" and "f31" GZ34's manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory and Philips' Sittard factory.


Agree 100% with Gibosi, if your HP id not demanding, go for GZ32 fat base ( see pictures ) is surprise bloody good and you can get those for 30-40$ , i did buy 2 from UK ebay, it's not far away fom f30/f31 and even metal base GZ34
i do had few copies of GZ32 brimar coke version from langrex UK but this fat base Mullard GZ32  is way more better if you can get one, it's sound pretty nice with my Utopia , but missing slam and juicy with Diana V2


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## alvin sawdust

Does anyone know if a 83 Mercury Vapour is a direct drop in for a 5Z3?


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## gibosi

alvin sawdust said:


> Does anyone know if a 83 Mercury Vapour is a direct drop in for a 5Z3?



They are quite close. Both require 3.0 Amps of heater current. The 83 can handle 450 Volts RMS per plate whereas, the 5Z3 can handle 500 Volts RMS. And the 83 can provide at most 225 Ma (DC output current) whereas the 5Z3 can provide 250ma. So yes, in many applications they are interchangeable.

That said, there are a couple of things to keep in mind when using mercury-vapor rectifiers. First, this tube requires preheating. That is, the heaters should be energized first, for several minutes, to warm-up the cathodes before voltage is applied to the plates.  If the tube is not preheated, the tube is prone to arcing, and therefore, I do not recommend the use of any mercury-vapor rectifier unless you can find a way to preheat it.

And second, mercury is a poison. If the glass envelope of one of these rectifiers was to break while in operation, the hot vapor would immediately disperse through-out the room. If you are in that room, it will likely be impossible to avoid inhaling the vapor and this would require you to seek immediate medical care. And afterwards, it may well be necessary to hire a hazardous materials remediation company to clean the premises to prevent further exposure.

Yes, the risk of a rectifier breaking in operation is very small, but it is not zero. Some folks think that the risk is too low for concern, but in my opinion, the decision to use a mercury-vapor rectifier is not one that should be taken lightly, especially if you do not live alone...

Be careful out there.


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## CAJames

gibosi said:


> They are quite close. Both require 3.0 Amps of heater current. The 83 can handle 450 Volts RMS per plate whereas, the 5Z3 can handle 500 Volts RMS. And the 83 can provide at most 225 Ma (DC output current) whereas the 5Z3 can provide 250ma. So yes, in many applications they are interchangeable.
> 
> That said, there are a couple of things to keep in mind when using mercury-vapor rectifiers. First, this tube requires preheating. That is, the heaters should be energized first, for several minutes, to warm-up the cathodes before voltage is applied to the plates.  If the tube is not preheated, the tube is prone to arcing, and therefore, I do not recommend the use of any mercury-vapor rectifier unless you can find a way to preheat it.
> 
> ...


Nice post. For me, there are enough other options out there that I don’t want to mess with 83 rectifiers (83V rectifiers OTOH are the 4 pin version of GZ32/5V4 rectifiers and can be very nice). But that is JMO/FWIW/YMMV and all that.


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## gibosi

CAJames said:


> Nice post. For me, there are enough other options out there that I don’t want to mess with 83 rectifiers (83V rectifiers OTOH are the 4 pin version of GZ32/5V4 rectifiers and can be very nice). But that is JMO/FWIW/YMMV and all that.



I agree, these are much safer options. 

But unfortunately, the 5V4-types can provide at most 175 Ma. And my amp requires at least 250 Ma. 

Also, the GZ32 is a very different animal from these other rectifiers. For some reason it is often considered the same as a 5V4, but at 300 Volts or less, it can provide as much as 300 mA, almost twice as much current at the 5V4G. However, as voltage goes up, maximum current goes down. At 350 Volts, it can provide 250 mA and at 500 volts, only 125 mA. Fortunately, with two 6AS7s installed, the voltage in my amp is about 250 Volts and the GZ32 can provide 300 mA, more than enough. So again, the GZ32 is a very different animal than a 5V4G.

And I would like to add, it's one of my favorite rectifiers.


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## kkrazik2008

Clear Water said:


> Before you send the tube back, try changing the fuse on the Stratus to a slow-blow, 2.5A.  When I first got the Elrog it blew the fuse on my Stratus as well, and it seems that this is a relatively common occurrence.  Donald has OK'ed this higher spec fuse with Elrog tubes.  Since switching to a higher rated fuse I haven't had any issues.


New pre-tested replacement Elrog 5U4G arrived yesterday, and before I did anything I made sure the 2.5A fuse was in the Stratus. Voila we have sunlight!


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## ColSaulTigh

kkrazik2008 said:


> New pre-tested replacement Elrog 5U4G arrived yesterday, and before I did anything I made sure the 2.5A fuse was in the Stratus. Voila we have sunlight!


Well....we're waiting!!!

What do you think?


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## kkrazik2008

ColSaulTigh said:


> Well....we're waiting!!!
> 
> What do you think?


Sorry going to have to wait until later, OSU vs Georgia is current priority, initial quick listen has me wanting to put my Linlai 2A3 power tubes back in as the Elrog has a bit of a top end bite.


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## pippen99

I am about 20 hours in on my tube.  I am going to hold off on any comparisons or impressions until about 50 hours.  One peculiar behavior has manifested itself.  I am using the tube in my WA33 EE.  When turning on the amp the filament(?) in the middle is almost intolerably bright.  It stays that way as long as the amp is going through it's opening cycle.  When initial cycling is done the tube dims.  Is this normal?  I have not experienced this behavior with any other of my rectifiers.  Video file attached.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnanFkRWvAbP8Rp9WXkiBdrDqtOx?e=qLPi6Z


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## ColSaulTigh

pippen99 said:


> I am about 20 hours in on my tube.  I am going to hold off on any comparisons or impressions until about 50 hours.  One peculiar behavior has manifested itself.  I am using the tube in my WA33 EE.  When turning on the amp the filament(?) in the middle is almost intolerably bright.  It stays that way as long as the amp is going through it's opening cycle.  When initial cycling is done the tube dims.  Is this normal?  I have not experienced this behavior with any other of my rectifiers.  Video file attached.
> 
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnanFkRWvAbP8Rp9WXkiBdrDqtOx?e=qLPi6Z


Mine don't dim at all, although I'm using a WA5-LE...


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## pippen99 (Jan 1, 2023)

I am going to post this on the WA33 thread too.


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## alvin sawdust

gibosi said:


> They are quite close. Both require 3.0 Amps of heater current. The 83 can handle 450 Volts RMS per plate whereas, the 5Z3 can handle 500 Volts RMS. And the 83 can provide at most 225 Ma (DC output current) whereas the 5Z3 can provide 250ma. So yes, in many applications they are interchangeable.
> 
> That said, there are a couple of things to keep in mind when using mercury-vapor rectifiers. First, this tube requires preheating. That is, the heaters should be energized first, for several minutes, to warm-up the cathodes before voltage is applied to the plates.  If the tube is not preheated, the tube is prone to arcing, and therefore, I do not recommend the use of any mercury-vapor rectifier unless you can find a way to preheat it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gibosi. It was a lazy post really and straight after I did a little research that lead me to the same conclusion, STAY WELL CLEAR!

Another interesting rectifier which can be had for cheap but requires an adapter is the 5X4G. Has anyone here tried it?


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## whirlwind

kkrazik2008 said:


> Sorry going to have to wait until later, OSU vs Georgia is current priority, initial quick listen has me wanting to put my Linlai 2A3 power tubes back in as the Elrog has a bit of a top end bite.


The game was a real heartbreaker


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## gibosi

alvin sawdust said:


> Thanks Gibosi. It was a lazy post really and straight after I did a little research that lead me to the same conclusion, STAY WELL CLEAR!
> 
> Another interesting rectifier which can be had for cheap but requires an adapter is the 5X4G. Has anyone here tried it?



The 5X4G is identical to the 5U4G, just a different pin-out. And yes, it's usually cheaper.


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## gkg2k

pippen99 said:


> I am about 20 hours in on my tube.  I am going to hold off on any comparisons or impressions until about 50 hours.  One peculiar behavior has manifested itself.  I am using the tube in my WA33 EE.  When turning on the amp the filament(?) in the middle is almost intolerably bright.  It stays that way as long as the amp is going through it's opening cycle.  When initial cycling is done the tube dims.  Is this normal?  I have not experienced this behavior with any other of my rectifiers.  Video file attached.
> 
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnanFkRWvAbP8Rp9WXkiBdrDqtOx?e=qLPi6Z



Does this also happen with other rectifiers with different intensities?


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## Badas

gkg2k said:


> Does this also happen with other rectifiers with different intensities?


Never on mine.

No HP's plugged in on start up is not a good idea. Tubes need a load.


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## paradoxper

gibosi said:


> They are quite close. Both require 3.0 Amps of heater current. The 83 can handle 450 Volts RMS per plate whereas, the 5Z3 can handle 500 Volts RMS. And the 83 can provide at most 225 Ma (DC output current) whereas the 5Z3 can provide 250ma. So yes, in many applications they are interchangeable.
> 
> That said, there are a couple of things to keep in mind when using mercury-vapor rectifiers. First, this tube requires preheating. That is, the heaters should be energized first, for several minutes, to warm-up the cathodes before voltage is applied to the plates.  If the tube is not preheated, the tube is prone to arcing, and therefore, I do not recommend the use of any mercury-vapor rectifier unless you can find a way to preheat it.
> 
> ...


Pffft. Are you even a real audiophile. Of course you risk death, contamination, and possible superpower for the sound.

Mercury aura isn't quite as angelic as the blinding ER5U4G.


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## jamato8

The very best and toughest tube rectifier I have used in the metal base 5AR4. I have one that was heavy used and still tests new and sounds excellent. Have them used and NOS and nothing, IMO, compares.


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## RobertSM

jamato8 said:


> The very best and toughest tube rectifier I have used in the metal base 5AR4. I have one that was heavy used and still tests new and sounds excellent. Have them used and NOS and nothing, IMO, compares.


I absolutely agree. One of the best especially if your amp was designed specifically for one. A real hall of fame rectifier from the golden age of tube manufacturing.


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## paradoxper

jamato8 said:


> The very best and toughest tube rectifier I have used in the metal base 5AR4. I have one that was heavy used and still tests new and sounds excellent. Have them used and NOS and nothing, IMO, compares.


Yup. It is the best rectifier I've used as well.


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## Basco

Badas said:


> Never on mine.
> 
> No HP's plugged in on start up is not a good idea. Tubes need a load.


No offense but I doubt that, no such advise from Woo Audio or in any manual I’ve read. Wouldn’t say it in general and might count how the circuit is designed.


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## Basco

paradoxper said:


> Yup. It is the best rectifier I've used as well.


Just curious how does it compare to ER5U4G
Prices gone crazy on these almost $900


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## gibosi

Basco said:


> No offense but I doubt that, no such advise from Woo Audio or in any manual I’ve read. Wouldn’t say it in general and might count how the circuit is designed.



Yes it does depend on the circuit. For example, a true OTL doesn't need the HPs plugged in. In fact, many recommend against leaving the HPs plugged in until the amp is turned on and operating at it's normal operating temperature. The best advice in every case is to consult the manual.


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## RobertSM (Jan 4, 2023)

Meme123 said:


> hello lumdicks
> i had over 50 rectifiers , but never had chance to test WE 274B, can you share impression of WE274B vs WE422A and metal base GZ34  pre 55
> i had 5/6 various variations of GZ34 metal (include Matsushita metal)  from top to bottom
> 1- pre 52-53-54 RSB, single disc getter , amazing mid, simply BEST , viceral , neutral, tonal balance on warm  side and very smooth, NOTHING can beat it, ( not hear WE274B and Elrog and tak ), but better overall than WE422A,base is very solid and depth
> ...



Your findings are interesting. After reading your post I decided to test the two metal base GZ34 I own.

They are date codes:

1. RS1 54J
2. TV2 57E

To my ears in my system they sound identical. The only difference I see is that the RS1 54J tube has soild plates and the tube glows more in a more orange and yellow color.

The TV2 57E does have three holes punched out in each plate. Other than this they look identical to me. Now this tube does glow with more white in the yellow color spectrum. These are the only differences I noticed.

Please note, equipment used MacBook Pro-->Weiss DAC501-4Ch-->ALO Studio Six-->ZMF Verite headphones in African Blackwood. I consider my system to be very revealing.

While I respect what you hear in your system and your personal experience I can't say I heard any differences whatsoever.

Fun experiment for sure though.

Let add that I definitely believe and have heard differences in same model tubes manufactured in the same factory in a decade to decade time frame.

My specific rectifiers have a small three year production date difference. Not much at all.


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## paradoxper

Basco said:


> Just curious how does it compare to ER5U4G
> Prices gone crazy on these almost $900


While I find rectifiers to sound much more alike than different, the GZ34 presents what I'd say is cleaner where the ER is slightly tilted warm and forward.
If I swap the 1266 TC with ER and compare against Valkyria with GZ34, the differences are very negligible.

The main reason to run a GZ34 is simply for its slow start and robust longevity.


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## Meme123

Sorry about few mistake i had made in previous post
- rSB was 1951 to early 1955 variant with welded plates, no holes in plates and single flat-foil solid getter
- rS1 and 6M  MNA (was died can not confirmed getters )- mid to late 1955 variant with welded plates, no holes in plates and double D and some variants double O getters
- tV1 was early to mid 1956 varianst with crimped plates, 3 vertical rectangular holes in plates and double D getters ( mine is D and maybe also double O getters )
- tV2 was late 1956 to 1957 variants with crimped plates, 3 vertical rectangular holes in plates and double D or O getters ( can not confirmed , was sold)

my systeme is MSI gaming laptop - antelope Zodiac - WA6se 1 gen and or WA5LE 1 gen and i listen to med volume approx 60-75dB and the sweetness and smooth tender voice of Lana Rey is very liquid like impression of DG, its "profondea"  
With "butterly effect: of DJ Snake for example, where tonality and impact deep can i affort at high volume is something i envy for with rSB 54 and my rS1 55 but not TV1-2 series is very harsh and even hurting ( im very sensitive to high due to lost 1 freq due to years working in aircraft test cell )
note: with Metallica and speed metal i feel more clarity of rSB versus rS1 ( a little cloud and missing note with rS1) and i can tell with variations (5U4G/U52..) tubes early made with foil  getter sound a little bit more smooth vs D and O getters
Sorry to ALL if i had made some mistake , im very bad at discription of technicality and analytic of music, and for sure if i have again "if need" to get metal base GZ34 and of same gap of money approx, I WILL looking for rSB first then rS1 ( or equivalent  also with Matsushita metal GZ34) but not TV1-2 series, 
or getter get FAT base with rectangle or round rectangle like this link bellow
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2658843955...MGsIbJ2NJ0Dh9VrtXmsDT/D6A=|tkp:Bk9SR5iym_avYQ
regards


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## RobertSM

Meme123 said:


> Sorry about few mistake i had made in previous post
> - rSB was 1951 to early 1955 variant with welded plates, no holes in plates and single flat-foil solid getter
> - rS1 and 6M  MNA (was died can not confirmed getters )- mid to late 1955 variant with welded plates, no holes in plates and double D and some variants double O getters
> - tV1 was early to mid 1956 varianst with crimped plates, 3 vertical rectangular holes in plates and double D getters ( mine is D and maybe also double O getters )
> ...



All good. That's the beautiful thing about this hobby. We all hear differently and we all enjoy what we enjoy regardless 

I've heard many great things about the Antelope Zodiac DAC. It has a great reputation in the pro-audio world and a growing love in Hi-Fi. Also said to have a ton of features and flexibility.


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