# REVIEW AND COMPARISON: Eddie Current Balancing Act and SUPER 7



## purrin

*Background*
   
  The following is a review and comparison of the Eddie Current Balancing Act and the Super 7. Craig Uthus of Eddie Current has been nice enough to lend Anaxilus and me the 2A3 and pre-production Super 7 for two weeks. Over this weekend, we also invited CeeTee down for a micro-meet to play with these toys. I've been trying to get him to spend more money. This is essentially a joint review with us comparing notes and me (Purrin) taking the lead on the write-up.
   
*Equipment*
   
  DACs: Benchmark DAC1, PS Audio PWD
  Headphones/IEMs: UERM, HD800, AD2000
   
*Balancing Act*
   
  The Balancing Act (BA) could possibly be the best headphone amp on the planet - we at least believe that it's the best we have ever heard (I haven’t heard the Pinnacle, LF, or the Woo mono-strosities yet though.)
   
  @Sachu: Since I know you are probably going to pop up here, feel free to send us a Liquid Fire for evaluation.
   
  When I (Purrin) first took delivery of the BA, I stayed up until 2:30am every day for two weeks listening to it. Even now, every time I put on headphones powered by this amp, it’s always a "Holy <expletive><expletive> <expletive> Batman!" moment. There are only a few headphone amps that I’ve heard or owned that can compete in the same league: The WA5 (fully upgraded) and Apex Peak/Volcano (P/V).
   
  The BA is priced at $3950 with new production EH 300B tubes. This is a steal when you compare it to some of the $10,000 amps out there. The WA5 is $4780 with the full upgrades including the Shuguang rectifier tubes. On that note, the BA does not need any fancy rectifier tubes. I rolled some TungSol 4x6WA to replace the stock rectifier tubes with no effect.
   
  Much has been made about its soundstage - which is unsurpassed. I would refer readers to Ryan Clarin’s review on innerfidelity regarding the soundstage capabilities of the BA: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/eddie-current-balancing-act-page-2 
   
  Supposedly a lot of the credit for this goes to the high-frequency AC heater for the filament of the DHTs. No other headphone amp I am aware of takes this approach. (Someone please correct us if we are wrong.)
   
  There are a couple of things however that we wanted to add about the soundstage. It’s not just soundstage width or depth as most of us typically think of it, it’s also the more subtle aspects of such as greater depth, precision layering of sound, and instrument separation. Musicians and instruments don’t come out flat or as one (or two) hazy blobs - they become distinct and three dimensional. This in turn affects all other aspects of the listening experience. The best analogy we can make is like how with HDTV, the elements in the picture just sort of pop out at you with better contrast and more vivid color.
   
  The BA takes only one 6SN7 as the driver tube, which is nice because it alleviates the need for matched pairs. Two output tubes are used - the BA reviewed here was one that could take either the 300B/PX4. 2A3/45 and PX4/PX25 versions of the BA are also available. As of right now, there is only one good current production PX4 tube, and that is the KR PX4. The Sophia PX4 is a piece of junk - it lacks the richness of the KR. More importantly the Sophia lacks bass. Craig has indicated that the Sophia PX4 was really a 45 tube (same plate resistance and gain) disguised as a PX4. Comparisons of the pictures of the Sophia PX4 and Sophia 45 make us wonder. Finally the Sophia is not really a mesh either, more like a solid plate with little holes punched through it. In contrast, the KR just has much better tooling and looks to be much better constructed.
   
  With a neutral driver tube such as the Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate and PX4 output tubes, the BA is a very clear sounding neutral amp with incredible speed and explosive bass. It’s almost solid-state sounding, but with the inner resolution and soundstage of tubes. One thing we noted comparing the BA to the 2A3, the Super7, and a few other cheap solid state amps we had lying around was that the BA is a very fast sounding amp. It’s scary fast given that it uses tubes.
   
  Because most of the combinations of DACs and headphones that we were we running, we used the EML 300B solid plate output tubes to thicken things up a little bit. The EML300B is still fairly solid state sounding in the bass - tight and fast - just a slight departure from the PX4. More bloom in the midrange, not as clear sounding, and not as rich in the treble as the PX4. By the way, if we wanted a more classic lusher tube sound, we could have gone with the TJ Full Music 300Bs. The BA is still smooth and liquid sounding in the treble no matter the output tube.
   
  The BA is by far the most dynamic amp I’ve heard, better than the Peak/Volcano which no slouch in this area either. The dynamic capabilities of the BA are excellent from throughout the entire audible range. The BA’s resolution and ability to extract low level information is also excellent.  Whereas the Peak/Volcano is more analytical in this regard, the BA is more subtle. The P/V brings out micro-dynamics to the forefront. Personally I (purrin) prefer the BA more because it lets us concentrate on the music instead of the details. In fact – the BA forces us to listen to the music. The BA still gives to us the choice to examine the detail if we wish - but the BA always maintains a vector towards the musical performance. 
   
  Besides resolution and dynamics, there are important, subtle factors that really set the BA apart. These are much more difficult to describe because they are more commonly heard only on the "good stuff". The BA has a very immediate sound - of bringing us there to the performance and "in-time." It’s got a sense of authority and ability to dig into the music - that is of being able to instantly swing the intensity levels of sound in a way that’s very expressive. Perhaps the “phrase instantaneous dynamic-contrast” is a good way to describe it? 
   
  The BA provides us a continuity of volume levels - an infinite number of shades - very high granularity. This is akin to how a good CRT monitor or film projection screen is able to render to all shades of grey and dark rather than wash or blacken everything out (like on an LCD, especially the older generation LCDs.)
   
  Finally the BA does have few weaknesses. Nothing is ever perfect. The bass is a little bit rounded - not as controlled nor tight compared to certain amps, i.e. (Apex Peak/Volcano, Dynahi, etc.) Do we miss this aspect of bass control? Yes, but the BA gets reasonably close enough and does so many other things better which suites our priorities. Some people may find the overall liquidity and treble smoothness of the amp unrealistic. The BA is not as analytical as certain amps. And the BA is not as lush and romantic sounding as would be expected of a tube amp. Finally it can be extremely costly to roll output tubes. The best 300B, PX4, and PX25 tubes can be extremely expensive.
   
*Super 7*
   
  We listened to a pre-production version of the Super 7 (S7) with the Transendar E-I transformers. The production version will have Electra-Print E-I transformers of the same specifications. The winding techniques and dimensions will be slightly different and Craig expects the Electra-Prints to be slightly better (if this is even noticeable to the average person.) There should be no change in tonality.
   
  The S7 will also have speaker outputs for powering small or extremely efficient speakers. Below is a picture of the footprint of the amp. It will be nicely compact with no external power supply or umbilical needed. We'll upload photos in a couple of weeks when the chassis parts come in.
   

   
  The S7 will utilize one input tube and six output tubes. A lot of people don’t realize how awesome this is: Instead of letting the amp designer voicing our amp and then us having to find tonal synergies with other components, we can now do it ourselves! It is even even possible to do it for cheap with very good sonic results - for example consider the following output tube combos:
   

 Warmer sounding combo 1: 2x Ken Rad VT-231 black glass, 2x Sylvania GTA chrome-top, 2x TungSol new production
 Warmer sounding combo 2: 2x EH new production, 2x 7N7 tall glass, 2x Ken Rad VT-231 black glass
 Leaner sounding combo 3: 2x 1578, 4x TungSol new production
 BA (with EML300B) tonal emulation: 2x 1578 4x Sylvania GTA chrome-dome
   
  We found that mixing different types of tubes can add some “complexity” and makes thing interesting - like a fine wine. According to Craig, there is no need to get precisely matched pairs of output tubes (unless one tube is about to die) because they self-adjust individually.
   
  The S7 will have much more flexibility and range of tonality compared to BA (it can get leaner/brighter and warmer/darker) than BA. Or at least we should be able to tweak things for much less money given the current availability of old-stock and new production 6SN7 and variants.) CEE TEE adds that the source also contributes a lot to the sound and this can be heard through the Super 7 and BA with ease. Imagine just getting one amp - and that’s it. No more amp-changing when you get new headphones or new DAC - just roll tubes first...
   
  During our micro-meet, once we tweaked the S7 to get a tonal balance eerily similar to the BA (with a 7N7 tall glass driver and EML300 solid plates), we found it surprisingly hard to tell the difference from the BA with quick listening back-and-forth. Closer examination can reveal the following differences though:

 BA gap on soundstage was still evident. The BA soundstage was less artificially wide, much deeper, more precise, lacked gaps, and had a better defined center.
 The S7 was surprisingly resolving (could keep up with BA with the PSS transformers - 90% as good.) 
 The expressiveness of the S7 is not as good as the BA - the shades of volume/dynamic levels were fewer. The S7 did not have the ability of the BA to instantaneously jump between these "intensity levels". But then again - it was so very close!
 Overall the BA sounded a bit more refined: smoother, more relaxed, more liquid, more cohesive, better at low-level detail retreival/control and clarity, and a tad more dynamic. More of the msuical "note/tone" is present at all times.
   
  Basically the S7 does all the major things right though. And this is not very common. The S7 is not just "better than other amps" priced below it (and some above it), it’s not just an “incremental” upgrade (like going to the LCD3 from the LCD2), the S7 simply obliterates everything below it that we’ve heard: Lyr, Burson, Red Wine Audio, WA6SE, etc. To us, the S7 (along with a few other amps) represents a minimum level of capability that is required for a headphone amplifier.
   
  If priced below $2000, we would consider this an amazing deal. Anyone who got one early at $1300 basically stole it. 
   
ALERT: As far as we know, anyone who is on “the list” is still eligible for the introductory price of $1300. After a few more weeks, this introductory price will be gone forever.
   
*Q: *Didn’t you say you were also going to review and compare the 2A3?
*A: *Yes, but JPnums already wrote a great review: http://www.head-fi.org/t/547564/review-eddie-current-new-2a3-45-headphone-and-speaker-amp We agree with his impressions and decided we couldn’t write anything better. Also, we didn’t get the tubes we ordered in time for the 2A3, so we couldn’t tweak it with our setups. If  we were able to spend some time go get things just right, or right enough, we would have supplemented JPnums review.
   
*Q:* Aren’t you just being overly critical and a hater (of other amps)?
*A:* [Purrin] No, I like the Peak (with Volcano PS), the WA5 (fully upgraded), the EHHA (DIY), and the A47/CMOY. I also like the B22 and Dynahi. [All] If an amp is going to severely distort the output of the source, or be incapable of sounding better than the built-in output of the source, then it’s not worth buying – no matter the price. We would just prefer to use an iPhone and good IEMs (JH13, UERM, ES5, etc.) 
   
*Q:* I heard that the Eddie Current amps use cheap parts and had bad soldering jobs. Is this true?
*A:* We opened up all three amps we had on hand and didn’t see any bad soldering jobs or wires that were about to come off and fry something. Other than the S7 which is on a PCB, the 2A3 and BA are hand-made with point-to-point wiring. Things happen sometimes with point-to-point wiring and stuff made by hand - see this thread on the Leben: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575746/lebens-owners-request-what-i-found-inside-my-leben-cs-300x-limited We would definitely like to hear from any other owners of Eddie Current amps if things have been improperly soldered or blowing up.
   
  As for the "cheap parts", last time we checked, the Electra-Print E-I output and Cinemag line level transformers weren’t exactly cheap. It’s true that Eddie Current does not use expensive “boutique” caps or parts, e.g. it appears there is a Solen serving as the interstage caps on the BA. I don’t think Eddie Current offers “supreme parts upgrade packages”, but you can always offer to give Eddie Current another $1150 or something to upgrade those to a V-cap and the PS caps to Blackgates if it makes you feel any better. (Eddie Current may still refuse.) I’ve given thought about swapping parts myself, but I’m happy with the voicing and don’t want to mess with it.
   
*Q:* I’ve heard with initial impressions of the S7 that was a little bit rolled off and dark sounding?
*A:* This is not true. We believe this was due to the source (and Patricia Barber Modern Cool CD recording) at the Venice meet where we heard an early prototype of the amp. During our micro-meet over the weekend, the S7 had no issues with treble extension and treble volume using the PWD and Benchmark DAC1 with various recordings.
   
*Q:* Can I get the HD800 to sound (on the S7) more lush and more like how you originally described at at the Venice meet? 
*A:* Yes. See the “warm tube” combos above. We felt the S7 had more latitude (or at least it was cheap) for changing tonal balance.
   
*Q:* Can you recommend specific tubes or tell us more about S7 tube rolling?
*A:* Absolutely not. Your source equipment, your headphones, and your preferences may be different from ours.
   
*Q:* You didn't cover treble or bass extension with these amps.
*A:* We didn't cover it because it's not an issue with either of these amps.

   
*Q:* Did Eddie Current pay you guys or give you any special treatment?
*A:* Anaxilus and Purrin know Craig in person. We did get special treatment in that he allowed us to go to his place and steal his amps for a few weeks on two occasions. We paid list price for all his amps. No discounts were available to us.


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## sachu

great write up Purrin. I had to acknowledge your request and make your assumption come true.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
    Haven't heard the Super 7.
   
  But I think you've nailed it on the Balancing Act. Its strengths and weaknesses you mention are exactly what i have observed the few times i have had the opportunity to try it out.
   
  As I have stated many times before, along with the Liquid Fire it really is the only other dynamic amp (among the ones i have heard) I think to be truly at the top of its game. 
   
   
  edit: As for a loaner of the LF, write an email to Alex and see what he says. Am merely a user, part time prototyper, full time fan.


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## purrin

Audeze was supposed to bring the LF to the Irvine meet and I was really looking forward to it. When Audeze got there, I sort of saw Sankar and Alex looking at each concerning where the LF was. Alex said some really good things about it and I'm still looking forward to hearing it one day.


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## ctemkin

Very much enjoyed your review of the Super 7.  Of course, since I have ordered one, that may in part be due to relief that your earlier positive experience was not just a fluke.


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## purrin

Quote: 





ctemkin said:


> Very much enjoyed your review of the Super 7.  Of course, since I have ordered one, that may in part be due to relief that your earlier positive experience was not just a fluke.


 

 Just to note: the "lean" tube setup was what was running at RMAF and the Irvine meet. This was by far the worst sounding combination. It was not only lean, but a bit strident.


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## IndieScent

do you use adapter for 7n7 or super 7 can use it naturally?


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## Anaxilus

Quote: 





indiescent said:


> do you use adapter for 7n7 or super 7 can use it naturally?


 

 Adapter.


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## purrin

Quote: 





indiescent said:


> do you use adapter for 7n7 or super 7 can use it naturally?


 
   
  You'll need an adapter. You can find them on Ebay. I think Woo makes some super special (teflon socket, gold pins, etc.) nice looking ones.


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## LFF

Awesome review!
   
  It's a good thing you didn't have me over.
   
  Had I written this review I might have been viewed as a hater of other tube amps. The only tube amps I ever recommend people listen to are Frank Cooter's and Eddie Current/Moth Audio amps. Unfortunately, or better yet...fortunately for some of us po' folk, you can only buy amps from one of those two options. I have yet to be disappointed when I have heard any of Craig's magnificent creations and the Super 7 is no exception. I don't own one simply because I can't afford them and the associated tubes. I admit that I do lust for them....
   
  When is the introductory price over?


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## santacore

Glad I pre-ordered mine.


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## kiertijai

*Thanks Marv and Mike for your excellent review.*
  I have been looking for this for a long time to make the decision for
  the Super 7.  I will seriously consider that esp. if Craig allow me to have the
  introductory price.  I think the HD800 will find a good match here with your
  suggestion Ken Rad, Sylvania, 7N7's
*What was your driver with the 4 combo's that you mentioned? * Tungsol BGRP?
   
  BTW there may be different opinion on HE6.   In the Venice meeting it was said that
  it also did a good job on the HE6, while later it may be not as good especially with
  the HE6 and AKG K1000.  *If we concentrate only on HE6, does the super 7 do a good*
*job on HE6 too?*
   
  I share your opinion on the BA.  I think it's the one of the best I have heard and I prefer
  it more than the balanced beta22.  The soundstage is its strong point.  I also found that
  it is very subjective to tube rolling, the driver and power tubes.  If the super 7 is more
  subjective than the BA it will be the dream for the 6SN7 addicts especially it can use cheaper 6SN7.  From your description we may not need the high priced 6SN7 to do the job.  *Do you still need a good driver tube to do the job?*
   
*Another question on the BA (may not be relevant to this review : How do you find the preamplifier function of the BA?  *Does it use cheaper part as other mentioned? IMO its preamplifier function is excellent too because it adds the soundstage to other amplifier
   
*and does the super 7 has preout (active) and speaker post?*
   
*I am also looking forward to your impression on the Electra.*


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## CEE TEE

Really enjoyed your review of the...wait- _*I was there*_ and I enjoyed the *Super 7* SO much that I plunked down (as a person on the pre-order list) and made my DEPOSIT ON ONE.
   
  I am signing your "joint-review" (thanks for taking point) and have also decided to reveal a personal story as well as a couple more points...
   
PERSONAL STORY:

 The same day I had a chance to audit the SR-009 at a mini-meet a few weeks ago, I also listened to purrin's *HD800/BA/PWD* set-up.  (Thought I was removing some variables by bringing my own music files).  The SR-009 (granted, from amps "less than" BHSE or T2) did not "grab" me as much as the HD800/BA/PWD set-up.
 Because I already had some inclinations toward the HD800/Peak+Volcano set-up, I headed off in that direction.
 Now I was investigating Eddie Current amps *or* Apex Peak/Volcano *+* starting to figure out that my "resolution/clarity/Grado thing" was definitely moving into a "you don't have to have peakiness/edginess to enjoy music"...thing.
 Then, I woke up 2 or 3 days IN-A-ROW *still thinking* about the sound of the HD800/BA/PWD set-up...shouldn't that "waking up thinking about something" be reserved for certain motor vehicles or girls these days?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 Anyway, like a good obsessive- I scoured the FS section and threads...but my rule is to "listen to things before buying" if possible.
 So, I drove 6 hours (each way) to hang out with some great audiophiles (purrin & anaxilus) and listen to THREE EC AMPs in a *micro-meet shoot-out* with MY source/music/phones and "future" phones: modded HD800.
 Surprised and happy, I placed my deposit for a *Super 7*.
   
makeshift set-up in an un-disclosed location:
   

   
More to the story:

 My Benchmark DAC with purrin's 300B set-up = the PWD with Sophia Princess PX-4 (to me).
 What I am saying is that I really feel the Super 7 and BA can be worked through tube selection and source selection to get the sound you are looking for.
 After my experience controlling source/tubes on two different occasions, I am confident I can move towards resolution or "euphonic-tube" experience as the concepts exist in my mind.
 *I am REALLY happy I just did some comparative/critical listening to review the Matrix DAC/Amp with the Benchmark- made me run through my source music and pay a LOT of attention to the quality of a note, not just the quantity of it.  Helped me be a better shopper for my "big rig".*
 *Micro-meets or loaner-programs are REALLY helpful in developing confidence in listening/shopping...can't emphasize this enough.  *If you can't meet, you will have to use buying/selling as an alternative...which is kind of the same as buy/enjoy/upgrade path but a bit faster.
   
   
*To reiterate & sum it up:*  I am VERY happily surprised at what the *Super 7* prototype could do, _directly compared to the Balancing Act_ (which I love).  I have been on a quest to understand resolution and neutrality which are the hallmarks of reproduction.  After understanding what is there and ensuring I can retrieve it, I want to enjoy it.  My portable rig is there, now I think my desktop is there.  If I want something else, I think I "can get there from here" and enjoy me some *MUSIC*.
   
  Will report after spending some time with the production model.  
   
  I will TRY to refrain from posting shortly after I get it, and plan on sharing it at the 2012 Bay Area Meet...cheers!!!
   
_(Thanks again to *purrin* and *anaxilus* for your support of the community as well as being good guys...we'll be keeping in touch.)_


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## purrin

@keirtijai:
   
  We used various drivers. Since one of our objectives was to keep this cost down for this audience, the Tungsol BGRP and other expensive drivers were not considered. We used Sylvania GTA chrome tops and 7N7 triangle plates. The driver tube. The driver is just as important on the S7 as the BA. Just think of the six output tubes on the S7 as the equivalent of the two output tubes on the BA (topological it's just like that inside the amp.) I can't comment on HE6 since I haven't heard it on the S7. I don't know anything about the rest.


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## CEE TEE

^^I told purrin that I was prepared to save up for the BA and any tubes that would meet my requirements but that if the Super 7 could meet the quality that I was looking for and also do it with inexpensive tubes...I had to listen to it!
   
  And, I am very happy with the prices on the tubes that I really like.  I plan to set-up a complement of the first set of tubes that Anaxilus put together, NOT use the set-up of tubes that Craig was using at the meets (sucked out mids and too much relative bass for me), and use as my first choice the "BA emulation set-up" which was so close to the BA it was easy for me to want the Super 7.
   
  Again, thanks to purrin and anaxilus for catering a "special request" of amps that I kept asking about in PM.  I really wanted to use my UE RM, my source, my music to remove any variables.
   
  The bonus was that purrin carted his PWD out and "re-created" the mini-meet set-up he drove up to the Bay Area a few weeks ago...it showed me the effect of source on the set-up.
   
  I feel like I could use the PWD+BA+PX4 tubes and get fairly the same sound as the Benchmark+BA+300B set-up.  Or, I could do a Benchmark+Super7+BAemulationTubes set-up.
   
  Or a PWD+Super7+BAemulationTubes set-up and get damn close to purrin's PWD/BA/300B set-up.  *Seriously.*
   
  I am very happy to get the Super 7 and many less-expensive tubes + maybe a tube tester and go listen to some music!
   
  Oh yeah...gotta go to Michael's too and cut some foam for a set of HD800 I am looking for too.


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## rosgr63

Thanks for the great review.
  The 7N7 with the triangular plates is like a 6SN7GTB, the Sylvania short bottle T-Plates with heavy chrome top is better for me similar to the Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle.
  Have you tried the EML300B Mesh?
  Another great PX4 is the AVVT PX4, makes the BA sing!


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## CEE TEE

I believe that Marv had the EML300B Mesh plates in the BA, which also made the decision VERY easy to pull the trigger on the Super 7...all inexpensive tubes in the Super 7 and it was so close!


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## IndieScent

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Adapter.


 

   
  Quote: 





purrin said:


> You'll need an adapter. You can find them on Ebay. I think Woo makes some super special (teflon socket, gold pins, etc.) nice looking ones.


 


   
  thanks for reply.
   
  also I seem cant find it on ebay/at woo website.
   
  on another note, how far apart the 6sn7 is? if you like put a Shuguang cv-181z for example, would it fit?


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## redwarrior191

great review purrin.. have you ever heard the zana deux?? any comparison of s7 with it??


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## kiertijai

@Purrin   Thanks for your response and your consideration not to use expensive driver tube . It seems like you try to use
  3 sets of 6SN7's with different sound characteristics for the warmer sets : KenRad for bass, Sylvania for neutrality
  and the Russian Mullard or 1578 for bright sounding.  I found those are excellent idea, may be I try  National Union + Sylvania or Raytheon +
  Westinghouse which may tone down a little bit or do you think the more different the tubes  =  better  result?
   @Stavros:     What is the 7N7 with triangular plate?
   @IndieScent :  Please try this one: ayumitubes.com on ebay.  I have purchased 6F8G/6SN7, 7N7/6SN7, 6N7/6SN7 adapters from Alex's site
  with good quality.   I have found that Kenrad, Raytheon 6F8G's are excellent, May be I'll try to find the 7N7 with triangular plate (what I have
  now is KenRad 7N7).  The 6N7 may not have enough power (what I have is the Visseaux which is very good too but other 6N7's do not have enough power)
   @Purrin & Anaxillus & CeeTee : I think the 6SL7 and 6F8G can be used for the power and driver tubes too, if that's the case the cost of the tubes will decrease.      I also hope the 7AF7, 6GU7, 6FQ7/6CG7 can be used too , that will markedly decrease the cost of 6SN7's


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## rosgr63

kiertijai, the 7AF7 tube is a low gain tube so it may not be suitable as an output tube but only as a driver.
  The 7N7 later versions included tubes that have plates similar to the 6SN7GTB type plates.
  The paltes are at an angle to each other.
  Can the S7 handle ECC32's either as driver or output tubes?


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## kiertijai

@rosgr63   thanks for the info.   Those tubes mentioned are recommended by one of the head-fi members that
  may replace the 6SN7's  but need more comments.   What I found is that I can use the 6SN7, 6SL7, 6F8G and 7N7
  without any problem with the BA.  What I don't know is whether will those findings also applicable to the Super 7 .  The same
  question with the Mullard ECC32 as driver tube.   It is evident that the 7AF7 and 6N7 do not have enough power
   
  @IndieScent:  here is the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-adapters-7N7-6SN7-tubes-amplifier-SUB-/250904865300?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a6b186a14
   
  @Purrin : those pre-out and speaker post question appeared in the Venice meeting impressions : may be they're specifications wanted by the member , not the real specification.  So I would like to confirm ? it has one SE input and one 1/4" jack output and one 4 pin XLR output , is that correct?
  It's all in one box and no separate PSU and the size is the same as the Balancing Act or ZDT.


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## IndieScent

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> @IndieScent:  here is the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-adapters-7N7-6SN7-tubes-amplifier-SUB-/250904865300?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a6b186a14


 


  yah, I know that seller, I even got it on my saved seller list. and believe it or not I was checking his item list before asking the question and somehow missed that adapter


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## purrin

Quote: 





indiescent said:


> yah, I know that seller, I even got it on my saved seller list. and believe it or not I was checking his item list before asking the question and somehow missed that adapter


 
   

  That's who I bought my adapters from. They are good quality. I got them here in a few days from Taiwan.

  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> I believe that Marv had the EML300B Mesh plates in the BA, which also made the decision VERY easy to pull the trigger on the Super 7...all inexpensive tubes in the Super 7 and it was so close!


 

 I had the solid plates. I believe a bunch of us BA owners are waiting for someone to try out the EML300B Mesh plates and report back.


----------



## purrin

redwarrior191 said:


> great review purrin.. have you ever heard the zana deux?? any comparison of s7 with it??


 

 I've heard the Zana Deux briefly so I can't comment on it. Because the ZD is an OTL amp, one thing I should point out about the S7 is that because of the paralleled output tubes, the output impedance very low (under 1 ohm - it could be even lower, but I don't remember what Craig said). I actually felt the S7 bass was a little bit tighter than the bass from the BA with EML300Bs. The BA output impedance is 16ohms.
   


kiertijai said:


> @Purrin   Thanks for your response and your consideration not to use expensive driver tube . It seems like you try to use
> 3 sets of 6SN7's with different sound characteristics for the warmer sets : KenRad for bass, Sylvania for neutrality
> and the Russian Mullard or 1578 for bright sounding.  I found those are excellent idea, may be I try  National Union + Sylvania or Raytheon +
> Westinghouse which may tone down a little bit or do you think the more different the tubes  =  better  result?


 
   
  Those particular Russians 1578 are terrible - too strident for my tastes. They weren't the good ones with the circular holes in them. You assessment of the tube combos is correct and I think you are on to something with your proposed idea. Generally this was our approach with output tube selection on the S7:
   
  1. KenRad = the bass tube, but with good clarity in the rest of the spectrum
  2. EH = the bass tube that adds roundness (if used in a bad combo, makes thing muddy - never use more than ONE pair)
  3. 7N7 = the laid back tube with great soundstage depth, solid bass, and silky treble
  4. Sylvania GTA/GTB = the clarifying neutral tube with treble extension
  5. Russian Tungsol = the filler tube that was OK (never use more than ONE pair)
  6. Russian 1578 = the tube that should never be used unless we are running really dark headphones
   
   
  EDIT: umm, some major corrections above.


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





purrin said:


> I've heard the Zana Deux briefly so I can't comment on it. Because the ZD is an OTL amp, one thing I should point out about the S7 is that because of the paralleled output tubes, the output impedance very low (under 1 ohm - it could be even lower, but I don't remember what Craig said). I actually felt the S7 bass was a little bit tighter than the bass from the BA with EML300Bs. The BA output impedance is 16ohms.
> 
> 
> Those particular Russians 1578 are terrible - too strident for my tastes. They weren't the good ones with the circular holes in them. You assessment of the tube combos is correct and I think you are on to something with your proposed idea. Generally this was our approach with output tube selection on the S7:
> ...


 


  so on super 7 the 6 output tube have more impact on sound than the single driver tube?
   
  also are the tube separated enough to use the unusual shaped 6sn7 like shuguang cv181-z?


----------



## purrin

Quote:


kiertijai said:


> @Purrin : those pre-out and speaker post question appeared in the Venice meeting impressions : may be they're specifications wanted by the member , not the real specification.  So I would like to confirm ? it has one SE input and one 1/4" jack output and one 4 pin XLR output , is that correct?
> It's all in one box and no separate PSU and the size is the same as the Balancing Act or ZDT.


 

 I know for sure that it will have an SE input, 1/4" jack output, and 4 pin XLR. Everything will be in one chassis - no external power supply box.
   
  Quote: 





indiescent said:


> so on super 7 the 6 output tube have more impact on sound than the single driver tube?
> 
> also are the tube separated enough to use the unusual shaped 6sn7 like shuguang cv181-z?


 
   
  The driver is still critical because it provides the voltage gain and it's the first stage - I'm referring to the garbage in garbage out concept. The thing that's really different here is the combinations of tubes you can run on the output. It really is: "design your own output tube".
   
  The Shuguang BT won't fit.


----------



## Rob N

How quiet is the Super 7?


----------



## CEE TEE

Ah, good question...the prototype Super 7 with my UERM was not as quiet as the BA.  With the HD800- silent.
   
  I found the noise floor on Super 7 pretty quiet but also depended on tubes used.
   
  I'm going to use HD800 so not an issue for me.
   
  Will report back with production unit in hand later...


----------



## purrin

I had no problems with high sensitivity headphones such as the AD2000 or Grados on the Super7.


----------



## audiosceptic

Quote: 





> *Q:* I heard that the Eddie Current amps use cheap parts and had bad soldering jobs. Is this true?
> *A:* We opened up all three amps we had on hand and didn’t see any bad soldering jobs or wires that were about to come off and fry something. Other than the S7 which is on a PCB, the 2A3 and BA are hand-made with point-to-point wiring. Things happen sometimes with point-to-point wiring and stuff made by hand - see this thread on the Leben: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575746/lebens-owners-request-what-i-found-inside-my-leben-cs-300x-limited *We would definitely like to hear from any other owners of Eddie Current amps if things have been improperly soldered or blowing up.*
> 
> As for the "cheap parts", last time we checked, the Electra-Print E-I output and Cinemag line level transformers weren’t exactly cheap. It’s true that Eddie Current does not use expensive “boutique” caps or parts, e.g. it appears there is a Solen serving as the interstage caps on the BA. I don’t think Eddie Current offers “supreme parts upgrade packages”, but you can always offer to give Eddie Current another $1150 or something to upgrade those to a V-cap and the PS caps to Blackgates if it makes you feel any better. (Eddie Current may still refuse.) I’ve given thought about swapping parts myself, but I’m happy with the voicing and don’t want to mess with it.


 
   
  I bought a BA from Craig in June of 2010 with the PX4/300B setup and a RK50 volume pot. When I first received it the volume control was messed up and I had a bad hum on one channel. I sent it back to Craig and he repaired it stating that a wire had come loose. In June of this year my BA developed a problem with the Line\Can selector switch where the right channel went out whenever you moved the selector switch. Eventually the right channel went out altogether. I sent the BA back to Craig a second time and decided to sell it.
   
  While I thought the BA sounded great I was disappointed with the repairs needed and lost confidence in the reliability of the product.
   
  Just my experience since you stated you wanted to hear from others.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Nice short takes on the two amps.  The BA along with GSX are on my bucket list. Someday the BA will be mine, someday...


----------



## Anaxilus

My 2 cents.
   
  The driver tube is critical, everything depends on it from that point on.  Consider an analogy of normal versus parametric EQ compared to using one or two output tubes versus six in the S7.
   
  Not one headphone i tried produced audible hum or noise from the prototype IME.  After rolling a set of tubes I often sweep the pot from min to max after they warm up to confirm the presence or absence of noise so i can be sure of what I'm hearing w/ the new tubes.  Because the amp was so silent it was usually a way to listen for bad tubes or those going bad.  The only noise we could discern was CEE TEE using his sensitive UERMs.  Ironically the noise was worst on new production Tungsol GTBs compared to even older used stock.
  ________________
   
  Thx for the input about your BA's issues.  I've had the S7 prototype for a substantial amount of time and I know it's been put through the ringer at meets and bounced around quite a bit on it's various journeys.  I haven't heard any issues w/ purrin's BA or headphoneaddict's ZDT or uncle eriks and dallan's ZDs but maybe they can chime in to confirm.  Definitely good to have some insight into people's ownership experiences thought I'm not sure if your case was the exception or the rule.  I'll send Craig an email to use extra solder just in case.  ;P


----------



## kiertijai

I am in for the super 7 because the price below 1500$ for me is a steal,
  especially if it can drive the HD800 and all the mentioned phones well. 
  Another temptation is the ability of the amplifier to do the tube rolling.
  I will not go for the LCD3 now because it seems to me that it is just
  improvement over the LCD2 rev2,  not an evolution.  Purrin also hinted that.
  I 'd rather use the money  for this one (than to use with LCD3)


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> I am in for the super 7 because the price below 1500$ for me is a steal,
> especially if it can drive the HD800 and all the mentioned phones well.
> Another temptation is the ability of the amplifier to do the tube rolling.
> I will not go for the LCD3 now because it seems to me that it is just
> ...


 

 Can't wait to see your LCD3 plugged into the S7.  ;P


----------



## CEE TEE

Anyone who has a place on the pre-order list and has not been sure of placing an order should consider it.
   
  At less than a used Zana Deux & with newly-patented (okay, should-be patented) "cheap-tube EQ"...it is a winner.
   
_I better stop "shilling" this amp until I have mine, _*I know*_.   _


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Anyone who has a place on the pre-order list and has not been sure of placing an order should consider it.
> 
> At less than a used Zana Deux & with newly-patented (okay, should-be patented) "cheap-tube EQ"...it is a winner.
> 
> _I better stop "shilling" this amp until I have mine, _*I know*_.   _


 


  Sigh, too bad I am not on the list and thus probably have to back down my interest on the amp.


----------



## kiertijai

*Can't wait to see your LCD3 plugged into the S7.  ;P*
*    *I think I will wait a while and try the LCD2 rev2 with the Super 7.
      The LCD3 came out so fast after the LCD2 rev2 so I am afraid that
  the better version (LCD3 rev2 or LCD4 ) will be around the corner soon.
  If the price of LCD3  is less than 1200$ , it is easier to decide but probably not now.
      Do you really think that LCD3 is much better than the LCD2 rev1 or rev2
  driven by BA?
*     *


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> Do you really think that LCD3 is much better than the LCD2 rev1 or rev2
> driven by BA?*  *


 
   
  I'm not the right person to ask about the LCD3 yet.  I had a horrible fit issue w/ the new pads and didn't dig the sound as a result.  I need to try another audition someday.  I did get to hear Craig's LCD2 r.2 and confirmed that sounded good as well.  
   
  So far heard 3x LCD2 r.1s and 3xLCD2 r.2s and only liked 2 of the LCD2 r.2s from a batch of 6.  So not sure if I can say what the next LCD3 will sound like to my ears.


----------



## CEE TEE

I did hope to try an* LCD-3* with the *Super 7* this past weekend, but we didn't have a chance to get an early pair from Audeze.
   
  So, I will be getting a pair of used* HD800* & performing the "foam mods".
   
  I'm sure I will have a chance to listen to the LCD3 w/Super 7 later.
   
*shipsupt*'s pair of LCD-2 made a better impression on me (during our Matrix DAC meet) than the previous pair of LCD-2 I tried...


----------



## rosgr63

How would one identify a noisy tube out of the 7?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> How would one identify a noisy tube out of the 7?


 

 Swapping the input driver.


----------



## rosgr63

What about the 6 power tubes?
  How would you identify a marginal tube?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> What about the 6 power tubes?
> How would you identify a marginal tube?


 

 I didn't imply I use the S7 as a tube tester to give me accurate capacitance numbers and such.  Just that I sweep the pot after I replace tubes and listen for noise after they warm up.  Obviously if the 6 output power tubes produce no audible noise then using the driver as the variable makes sense.  Did I say something vague you might be misinterpreting?  I don't get what's complicated about hearing noise from a tube you just replaced?


----------



## Elysian

Excellent review, particularly as a direct comparison between the BA and S7!  I admit the review's sparked my curiosity about the S7, and I'll now be following news on it more actively.
   
  I'm glad you decided to put the deposit down on the S7, CEE TEE, and that it's everything you hoped for it to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Looking forwarding to hearing your S7 once it arrives!


----------



## kiertijai

I have asked Craig when I made a commitment on Super 7 about the ECC32 , ECC33.
  He said that ECC 32 can be used as driver tube but not power tubes while the ECC33 can be
  used as driver and power tubes.  Forgot to ask about the other tubes : 6SL7's, 6F8G's, 7N7's and other
  including the Brimar CV1988/6SN7GTY (which should be alright). May be we need info. about
  those tubes which can be used as driver and which can be used a power tubes and which can not be used
  or do not recommend. 
  In order not to be confused where the noise come from if there is, I think I will only use strong test
  or mint matched pair of 6SN7's, will that help ? 
  Using marginal tube is quite a different concept from the tubes used in the BHSE because they will use
  perfectly matched quad of EL34's  or 6DJ8's   or at least 2 matched pairs.  Perfectly matched tubes are
  more important that the brand of  tubes used.


----------



## kiertijai

@CeeTee :   I am also waiting for your impression of the HD800 with super 7 and of course for the
  LCD3 esp. in comparison with the LCD2.  I am also one of the few who prefer LCD2 rev1 over LCD2 rev2
  with the BA because I like its unique sweet mid.  So for me the LCD2 rev2 does not add much and that's
  what I am afraid that the LCD3 will be the same with 2000-$ price tag.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I didn't imply I use the S7 as a tube tester to give me accurate capacitance numbers and such.  Just that I sweep the pot after I replace tubes and listen for noise after they warm up.  Obviously if the 6 output power tubes produce no audible noise then using the driver as the variable makes sense.  Did I say something vague you might be misinterpreting?  I don't get what's complicated about hearing noise from a tube you just replaced?


 

 Thanks for your answer.
  
  I agree an amp is not and should not replace a tube tester.
  What I would like to know is if a power tube goes bad how can you identify which one out of the 6 has gone bad.
  Some brand new re-issues like the Tung Sol 6SN7 and Electro Harmonics 6SN7EH show shrots when tested and some have noise issues.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> I agree an amp is not and should not replace a tube tester.
> What I would like to know is if a power tube goes bad how can you identify which one out of the 6 has gone bad.
> Some brand new re-issues like the Tung Sol 6SN7 and Electro Harmonics 6SN7EH show shrots when tested and some have noise issues.


 

 You'll hear the bad ones. We used a process of elimination with IEMs (UERM) to identify the noiser (not defective) tubes.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





indiescent said:


> Sigh, too bad I am not on the list and thus probably have to back down my interest on the amp.


 

 Maybe you can write him and beg?
   
  Believe it or not, it was lack of interest in this amp that forced him to honor only the original people on the interest list and send off future production to a distributor who will probably mark it up 40%. It's really such a shame.


----------



## CEE TEE

Yep, after changing out a couple tubes that sounded like a tiny "air leak"...it wasn't an issue for me.
   
  I mentioned it in case someone wants to exclusively use sensitive iems.  I plan on using HD800.
   
  My HF2 will probably hit the FS board tomorrow night (hanging out with another Head-Fier tonight).
  
  Quote: 





purrin said:


> You'll hear the bad ones. We used a process of elimination with IEMs (UERM) to identify the noisier (not defective) tubes.


 
   
*There is a great Bay Area/SoCal crew-thing happening...I think that I might coordinate the purchase of a good tube tester and then we can ship it around CA.*
   
  (One of those things you mostly need when you buy a bunch of tubes or need to check a collection...)
   
_*Anyone have a suggestion for a good tester?*_


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Maybe you can write him and beg?
> 
> Believe it or not, it was lack of interest in this amp that forced him to honor only the original people on the interest list and send off future production to a distributor who will probably mark it up 40%. It's really such a shame.


 


  while not exactly begging, I did write him email(since I am kinda have no idea which end of month he meant on his website). and he replied with the offer is expired
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. well just my bad luck i guess.


----------



## rosgr63

I suggest Bob Putnak of tubesound.com he'll advise you what tester best fits your needs.


----------



## Elysian

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> *There is a great Bay Area/SoCal crew-thing happening...I think that I might coordinate the purchase of a good tube tester and then we can ship it around CA.*
> 
> (One of those things you mostly need when you buy a bunch of tubes or need to check a collection...)
> 
> _*Anyone have a suggestion for a good tester?*_


 

 I recently met a guy down in San Jose who is in the process of setting up a tube and vintage equipment business.  He has a warehouse full of vintage gear, as well as shelves and shelves full of old stock tubes.  He's considering having various tester services setup (including curve traces), and I've already tested a number of tubes with him.
   
  He hasn't finished setting up his business yet so I'm going to refrain from advertising yet, but he's a stand-up guy, very nice, and quite knowledgeable.  He may be ready to go public before the end of this year.
   
  Anyway, I wanted to put that out there since there are a lot of us down in the South Bay/Peninsula, and I spent several weeks calling and emailing many, many people (including attending meets) trying to find someone who did tube testing services.
   
  Still can't find a tester repairperson in norcal, though, but there are a few Hickok repair folks on the west coast.  I personally don't recommend buying a tester, and would suggest finding someone with maintained and calibrated equipment instead.  Unless you plan on going into ham radio or have specialized needs (such as vintage TVs), owning a properly maintained and calibrated mutual transconductance tester is just not economical.
   
  Even if you ship it around to timeshare a tester, it's not available for most people during those impulse purchase times, and the shipping alone (as well as potential damage from mishandled packages) costs more than what most people would charge for tube testing services, whether per hour or per tube.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Wow, wonderful post, Elysian!!
   
  Thank you.  When can we go meet him?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll be sure to have a shopping list ready!
   
  Maybe we can work something out and have member pricing...
   
  Any idea how much the tester is though (we could keep it in a local spot and not ship it)?
   
  I would like us to have those curve traces.
   
  Just curious.


----------



## Elysian

I think he mentioned to me that he was hoping to have his business up and ready at the end of November, but he's got an awful lot to inventory, a website to setup, and had a lot to uncrate.  I hope he's successful as he has a lot of gear I haven't seen since I was a little kid.  He may go into selling new production tubes, too, so there will be more options for us North Americans than just Grant Fidelity   He's considering various lines and is assessing what's already out there to cut down on redundancy.  From my interactions with him, he's punctual and has integrity, so it's only a win for us consumer guys if he gets his business going.
   
  The cheapest tester I'd recommend getting is something along the lines of a B&K 747.  A used one will go for $200-300, followed by another $200-300 for refurbishing old parts and calibrating the tester.  If you want to go high-end, there are the Hickok 539B/C ($800-1100) models.  The vast majority of testers (especially out there on ePay) are inflated by 200-1000% what you will pay at a swap meet or an old shop, and most of the comments about 'worked when I last tried it' 'seems calibrated', etc., are outright lies.
   
  Not only that, unless you have an adapter, you probably won't be able to test all the tubes you want (older WW2 models like the TV-2 will definitely need an adapter), and those era testers will not test something like a 300B properly because the tester won't be able to drive enough voltage.  The tester will not be able to simulate an equivalent setting as the demands of an actual audio rig.
   
  If you want to do it right, you'd want an Amplitrex AT-1000, which is $2675 (http://www.amplitrex.com/about.html) or a cardmatic tube tester to do traces.  An Amplitrex will probably do everything an audiophile could possibly want, and will be more accurate than even the laboratory Hickoks/Western Electrics.  The 539B/C are legendary testers but are not really accurate compared to something like an Amplitrex.  The high-end Hickok reputation has far outsold the actual value at this point.  Conversely, you want to be careful about the low-end testers to do anything more than a gas emission short test.  Most are not that accurate and just not very good.  There's a reason why Hickok supposedly owned over 70% of the market.
   
  I'd just recommend finding someone local like this guy to do a proper curve trace for you.


----------



## purrin

What about one of those ~ $400 testers from tubesound.com? I'm starting to have a large stash of tubes worth a lot. $400 would be reasonable - if it could help me resell the stuff I don't need anymore.


----------



## Skylab

First of all, Purrin and Anaxilus, very nice review, thank you for your efforts in conducting and posting it! I wish I had more experience with EC amps, but I certainly like my EC Transcription phono stage very much.
   
  On the topic of tube testers, I think that owning a basic emissions tester is very valuable if one plans to bargain hunt for tubes either at hamfests or on EBay.  The purpose of such a tester in that case is not to do precise (or even approximate) matching, but rather to use the tester to test for leaks, shorts, or just dead tubes, prior to putting them in your amp and potentially causing some much bigger problem.  For this purpose, a basis tester like the B&K 606 I use is well worth the relatively small cost.
   
  I also own a calibrated Mutual Transconductance tester, a B&K 650, but I confess I rarely use it anymore, because it is much bigger and heavier than the 606, and all I am really interested in knowing is that the tube is good and isn't going to be a problem in my amp.  Testers won't tell you if the tube is quiet or otherwise good sounding, but they will sure tell you when NOT to put the tube in the amp.


----------



## Elysian

I wouldn't recommend any of those testers on tubesound.com.  There are a few testers like the B&K 747 which are about as good as the Hickoks but sell for a lot less because the brand name is less sexy.  Some of the high-end Heathkit, Seco, Supreme, Triplett (3444) are good buys, but people have picked up on this and the prices have inflated by 100-300% in the last few years.  Not all mutual transcondutance testers are built the same.  Possibly something like a Hickok 600 or 6000 would be okay for casual use, but the radio sites are good to dig in deep on the deficiencies.  If all you're doing is testing for shorts, a cheap gas emissions tester is suitable for most cases.
   
  Roger Kennedy's article is probably a good place to start if you want to own a tester:
  http://www.alltubetesters.com/articles/tester_guide.htm
   
  Roger's down in Socal and still does repairs, but he's getting up there in age and is not in the best of health, so any jobs you do through him will probably take 4-6+ months, conservatively speaking.  I've heard he has a very long waitlist because there just aren't a lot of guys around anymore who know this stuff, and the radio guys are very patient.  Kara up in Washington has a great reputation and is quicker, but only works on select Hickok models:
  http://www.tubewizard.com/
   
  It's safe to multiply whatever the website rate is by x2-x3 because you'll probably have to refurbish a bunch of parts which is not included in the base service fee.
   
  Here are a few good places to read up on different models, but like Roger Kennedy wrote, your specific application can matter a lot, and some of the information might not necessarily be correct on these write-ups:
  http://www.jacmusic.com/Tube-testers/index.html
  http://www.tubewizard.com/recommended_Hickok_testers.htm
   
  Tone Lizard had a good write-up, but it looks like Google cache isn't pulling up the old page anymore, and the current page is blank.
   
  At least the market price for high-end tube testers is appreciating better than the interest in bank savings accounts.  I don't see prices decreasing on 539s anytime soon.  They shot up from free-$20 to $1000+ since the 80s.


----------



## GWN

Quote: 





indiescent said:


> while not exactly begging, I did write him email(since I am kinda have no idea which end of month he meant on his website). and he replied with the offer is expired
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Same thing with me. I was told today that the pre-order ended at the end of Oct.  When I inquired about putting my name on a production unit I was told that these would be sold thru Jaben.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





purrin said:


> What about one of those ~ $400 testers from tubesound.com? I'm starting to have a large stash of tubes worth a lot. $400 would be reasonable - if it could help me resell the stuff I don't need anymore.


 


  I have bought a few testers from Bob pro rebuilt, really nice, first class after sales service.
  He won't just sell you anything, but he'll take you through the steps to find out what you need.
   
  He's just an email away, just tell him what you want.
  If it doesn't work out, blame me.
   
  I am not affiliated with him in away we are worlds apart.
   
  Agree with Rob 100%, the tester will only tell you if it's safe to use a tube.
  The best test is in circuit, in your amp provided it's safe to use.
  Excellent testing tubes may be noisy etc, other low testing but safe tubes may sound great and last a long time.


----------



## CEE TEE

Thank you, Elysian and Skylab for the *great start*.  I will do more research based upon your comments + work out meeting the new "Bay Area Tube Guy".
   
*(I'll take the rest offline or start a new thread...sorry to thread-jack so badly!)*
   
  But the *Super 7* allows for a lot of tube combos so my thoughts are already headed that way...


----------



## rosgr63

I find that the Sylvania 5692 Yellow Label used as power tubes in one of my amps reveal a noisy 6SN7 driver very well.
   
  Have you tried them with the S7 yet?


----------



## Rob N

Any comparisons to an Earmax Silver or Anniversary edition?
   
  I've now decided to buy one


----------



## 24phun

Just sayin':
  I've used my BA daily since I got it (over 6 months ago).
  As my preamp and can amp.
  No glitches whatsoever. Nothing but cheshire cat grins.
   
  But I don't throw it in the car every morning, either.
   
  BTW, it's a lot easier to spot and fix a loose wire than a bad board.


----------



## purrin

My volume knob got loose and came off.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Well I have a *portable* amp that needed:

 a new switch for charging (had it sent to me and friend replaced)
 then the optical input went out (manufacturer fixed)
 now the headphone-out jack is breaking connection (they will sell me new jack to solder in, cheaply)
   
_Oh, and the volume knob came off too..._
   
*So bring on my Super 7.  I want it already.  *


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





purrin said:


> My volume knob got loose and came off.


 

 So did the knob on the prototype while I had it.  I had to grab a screwdriver to lock it down again.  Oh the horror!  It's fortunate I had my micro-driver set handy after fixing the loaner LCD2 that was falling apart.


----------



## ctemkin

Quote: 





purrin said:


> My volume knob got loose and came off.


 


  You could always try some stuffing some TP in it before remounting.
   
  Less OT--have you or anaxilus heard anything about how the production of the Super 7s is coming along?


----------



## purrin

The chassis are in. Still waiting for the power transformer and inductor. I'm heading in that direction sooner rather than later. Will take pics.


----------



## rosgr63

What tubes are you going to use?


----------



## Anaxilus

Well, I don't know how it happened but I'm in the market for a Pelican case for my tubes.  Still waiting on my amp.  Doh!  >.<


----------



## kiertijai

Is it a good idea that I will use   2 Kenrad VT231's+ 2 National Union 6F8G's round plate +
  2 Tungsol 6F8G's with ECC32 for the warm set up for HD800?
  both National Union and Tungsol are recently acquired.
   
  For the LCD2 or LCD3 setup, I will use 2 Sylvania 6SN7W + 2 Fivre 6SN7's + 2 Toshiba 6SN7GTb's
  long bottle and Tungsol 6SN7 round plate black glass as driver.  Any comments would be highly appreciated


----------



## xchagg

I already picked up a pair of black-glass Ken-Rads, a pair of clear-glass Ken-Rads, a GEC B65 for the driver, and am considering acquiring a pair of Bad Boys or chrome dome GTA's.
  And the S7's aren't even ready to be shipped out


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> Is it a good idea that I will use   2 Kenrad VT231's+ 2 National Union 6F8G's round plate +
> 2 Tungsol 6F8G's with ECC32 for the warm set up for HD800?
> both National Union and Tungsol are recently acquired.
> 
> ...


 

 There is no simple answer to that.  Just wait for the amp and play w/ what sounds best to you and your setup.  That's the beauty of the amp.  Those all should be fine in the right combinations though I haven't heard the Fivre, Toshis or what I presume to be Mullards?
   
   
  Quote: 





xchagg said:


> I already picked up a pair of black-glass Ken-Rads, a pair of clear-glass Ken-Rads, a GEC B65 for the driver, and am considering acquiring a pair of Bad Boys or chrome dome GTA's.
> And the S7's aren't even ready to be shipped out


 

 The transformers are being custom made to his spec atm.  They are individually hand wound/made and this is a smaller batch than expected.  It's not easy to source the right transformer at the right price/performance ratio anymore.  Apparently it's a dying art.  If it wasn't for that he amps would have been released 3 months earlier probably.


----------



## xchagg

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> The transformers are being custom made to his spec atm.  They are individually hand wound/made and this is a smaller batch than expected.  It's not easy to source the right transformer at the right price/performance ratio anymore.  Apparently it's a dying art.  If it wasn't for that he amps would have been released 3 months earlier probably.


 


  I'm not grumbling about the development period of the S7; just musing about the scale of tube purchases once the amp actually arrives, seeing some (at least 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) of us are expanding our tube stashes already heh.


----------



## kiertijai

*For the LCD2 or LCD3 setup, I will use 2 Sylvania 6SN7W + 2 Fivre 6SN7's + 2 Toshiba 6SN7GTb's*
*   *@Anaxilus : I just followed your and Marv's idea to use 3 different sets of tubes : Sylvania 6SN7W for the dynamic
  bass (I don't worry about the bass impact or quantity of the bass of LCD's),  SICTE or  Fivre (for neutrality and big soundstage
  which may be lacking in LCD's),  Toshiba's are  just similar to Swedish Standard or Westinghouse or Telefunken 6SN7GTA , but
  cheaper for treble extension (I do not want to try 1578 which may be too bright).   Tungsol BGRP as driver for obvious reason : one of
  the very best 6SN7's with excellent dynamicity and end of spectrum extensions.
   
*2 Kenrad VT231's+ 2 National Union 6F8G's round plate +*
*2 Tungsol 6F8G's with ECC32 for the warm set up for HD800?*
    @Anaxilus :  The same as your and Marv's warm sounding setup for HD800.   KenRad VT231 for bass quantity and impact,
  National Union for   sweet meaty organic midrange ,  Tungsol 6F8G's round plate which are cheaper than  (but may be better)  the
  Tungsol black glass  round plate  for treble extension.  Yes, it is Mullard ECC32 (or may be GEC B65), another one of the best driver of
  6SN7's compatible (but can not be used as power) to increase the sound thickness of HD800.  I don't worry much about the soundstage for
  HD800 because they have plenty of that.
   
   I will go from there and adjust different set of tubes according to your and Marv's concept.  I don't have tube filler here.
   
*seeing some (at least 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) of us are expanding our tube stashes already heh.*
*     @xchagg *Dear Super 7 , please arrive as soon as possible or my Christmas present will be several sets of tubes instead of the Super 7.


----------



## ctemkin

It hasn't convinced me that I'm not crazy for having acquired a bunch of Sylvania JAN 6SN7Ws and a pair of KenRads in advance of having the actual amp, but it's somehow comforting to see that I am not alone. 
   
  purrin and anaxilus, thanks for the updates.


----------



## kiertijai

I agree that you should not buy those if you don't have them
  They are pricey but have very good for bass, but if you are not a bass head you also don't need that.


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## kiertijai

/


----------



## CEE TEE

^Darn it, I thought this thread was getting some traction.
  ^^Darn it, I thought this thread was getting some traction.
  ^^^Darn it, I thought this thread was getting some traction.
  ...


----------



## kiertijai

@CeeTee Sorry for the mistake,  I will not try to send messages from my office again.  I tried to delete but I cannot do the whole message.
  It's not  that I want to increase the number of my threads although it may work for that purpose.
  I have received the Tungsol 6F8G's and the National Union 68FG's today.  Both of them are round plate, very rare tubes.
  Craig said that I can use 4-6 6F8G's without any problem.  I cannot find the Kenrad 6F8G's especially the roundplate.
  I have a pair of Raytheon 6F8G's but they are not round plates.
  Using with my BA + WE300B, they sound wonderfully beautiful.  Both of them have very sweet mid with huge soundstages.
  They have to go into the super 7.
  @Stavros : what would you like to use if you have the super 7 and you have three pairs of power tubes and one driver to choose to use
  with HD800 and LCD's


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations on your tubes.
  The round plate structure of the NU is different from the TS.
   
  I would use:
  Driver: Brimar CV1988
  1st Pair: RCA Gray Glass 6SN7GT
  2nd Pair:Sylvania 6SN7W Short Bottle, (Lower Mica Inside Base)
  3rd Pair: NU 6F8G
   
  This is a wild guess, but all above are some of my favorite tubes.


----------



## CEE TEE

@kiertijai:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  no problem, I know you didn't mean to!  Just got excited to see what was going on...thanks for posting tube experience and info.
   
  I'm going to have to tube hunt soon...


----------



## kiertijai

@Stavros
      Thanks for your suggestion :
       I will try those combinations , I think I have all those so I don't have to do the
  tube hunts
      
  I would use:
  Driver: Brimar CV1988
  1st Pair: RCA Gray Glass 6SN7GT
  2nd Pair:Sylvania 6SN7W Short Bottle, (Lower Mica Inside Base)
  3rd Pair: NU 6F8G
   
  @CeeTee : thanks for understanding, I am also a little bit embarassed about my computer illiterate.
   
  I may use the round plate RCA 6F8G's and switch with the gray grass RCA 6SN7GT.  Brimar or STC CV1988
  is an excellent idea or Mullard ECC33.   NU6F8G 's are wonderful tubes as you suggested.


----------



## rosgr63

I would also try an ECC35, or an ECC33 Yellow Label for drivers.


----------



## purrin

_Sexy Super7 Photos:_


----------



## Anaxilus

Those tubes hurt my eyes!  Corpsman!!


----------



## purrin

That's not pronounced corpse-man is it?


----------



## kiertijai

@Marv, Those picturs are beautiful. Do you know how much is the output of the speaker post? Can we use them to drive the AKG K1000? I hope it can be ready for my Christmas present. I am ready and my tubes are ready. I don't think we need to used a perfectly matched pair of 6SN7's and a pair of the same 6SN7's should be on the left and right at the same row , is that correct?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





purrin said:


> That's not pronounced corpse-man is it?


 

 Only if you're the President, then you have to do it like 10 times in one speech.  At least it's not as difficult a word as Orion, excuse me, Oreon.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Only if you're the President, then you have to do it like 10 times in one speech.  At least it's not as difficult a word as Orion, excuse me, Oreon.


 

 I would only dare to hope, I mean, have the audacity to hope. We could definitely on the precipice, I mean, on the doorstop of impropriety here.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> @Marv, Those picturs are beautiful. Do you know how much is the output of the speaker post? Can we use them to drive the AKG K1000? I hope it can be ready for my Christmas present. I am ready and my tubes are ready. I don't think we need to used a perfectly matched pair of 6SN7's and a pair of the same 6SN7's should be on the left and right at the same row , is that correct?


 

 Supposedly yes on K1000. Tubes do *not *need to be matched. Isn't that awesome!
   
  And yes, it looks fricking awesome! Not like that ugly prototype.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> I don't think we need to used a perfectly matched pair of 6SN7's and a pair of the same 6SN7's should be on the left and right at the same row , is that correct?


 
   
  Correct on both counts.  I asked Craig specifically about matching and to sum up, after a long in-dept explanation, he said it was basically a non issue w/ the design of the S7.  If you want more technicalities I'm sure purrin can chime in.


----------



## kiertijai

Yes , Craig answered back .  He said the Super 7 is more powerful than my BA, may be the same as 2A3.
  If the input if 3V it can drive the AKG K1000 and HE6 with no problem, that is really good news.  I can set my output
  from Weiss DAC 202 to 3V  or even up to 8V
  The tubes don't have to be matched and the position does not matter , just place similar 6SN7's each on opposite
  side , doesn't need to be on the same row.
  He is waiting for the Electra transformer,  I heard the bad news that he smashed his hands and if he has to do
  the transformer by hand by himself, that will cost some delay.
  He said that the super 7 is possible before Christmas but more likely after that


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> Yes , Craig answered back .  He said the Super 7 is more powerful than my BA, may be the same as 2A3.
> If the input if 3V it can drive the AKG K1000 and HE6 with no problem, that is really good news.  I can set my output
> from Weiss DAC 202 to 3V  or even up to 8V
> The tubes don't have to be matched and the position does not matter , just place similar 6SN7's each on opposite
> ...


 

 The BA is really not that powerful ~1W into 16 ohms. It sounds powerful with most cans though including the LCD2/3.


----------



## santacore

Nice, thanks for the pics!!! I'm really itching to hear mine.


----------



## Gatepc

Wow I love the design. That is still my favorite amp I've yet heard.... Now if only I had money haha.


----------



## kiertijai

I can use my BA to drive the AKG K1000 and HE6 at 2 oclock by setting
  the output of Weiss DAC 202 to 3V with balanced in and out.
  I think the output of super 7 is* About 2.5 watts, 3V in should drive the K1000*
*This is the info from Craig, so I am happy that it can drive both phones*
*even I use unbalanced in and balanced out.*


----------



## MuppetFace

Hgggg!! Oh man oh man. I so want one of these Super 7s now. Those shots are gorgeous.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> I can use my BA to drive the AKG K1000 and HE6 at 2 oclock by setting
> the output of Weiss DAC 202 to 3V with balanced in and out.
> I think the output of super 7 is* About 2.5 watts, 3V in should drive the K1000*
> *This is the info from Craig, so I am happy that it can drive both phones*
> *even I use unbalanced in and balanced out.*


 

 I know the original transformer design he was shooting for was 6 watts.  He was saying if the supplier ever comes through we'll ave the option to change 'em out.  I don't think he'd mind too much as there's probably less than 10 of us.  All I know is I reserved 007 on the S7, otherwise would have been 002.  =P


----------



## kiertijai

@Anaxilus what is the difference between 007 and 002?
                     which one produce 6 Watts output?
  many thanks


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> @Anaxilus what is the difference between 007 and 002?
> which one produce 6 Watts output?
> many thanks


 

 Just the production number.  Same amp build.  Since 001 was taken I just went for 007 to keep w/ the S7 theme.  The 6 watt comment was referring to the potential output of the prototype double C-core transformers that as of yet were not able to be produced to Craig's spec.  The production amps will be the Electra Print EI cores hitting 2, maybe 3 watts.


----------



## tme110

So the S7 doesn't have a balanced input?


----------



## kiertijai

@Anaxilus : thanks for the info. I also asked Craig for the 009 number because the 001 was taken by Craig himself
  in rememberance of the Stax 009 whose company was taken by Edifier.  I doubt that any excellent product will come
  of the new Stax company.
  @tme110   I think the super7 only have SE input.


----------



## santacore

Any of you OC guys hear anything new on the release?


----------



## kiertijai

Craig is waiting for the new transformer to try.  If it is better than the present one he will replace
  without additional cost.  Because of Christmas time the delivery of the new transformer may be delayed.


----------



## kiertijai

The new transformer is not better than the previous one so there will no change and the items
  should be finished this year.
  Any body knows the voltage input need for the super 7 to drive the AKG K1000 and HE6.  I was
  told from Craig if the output was more than 3 should be fine.   I have asked because I may try
  to drive my Quad 11L with the super7 speake out put post or even those of beta 22 balanced.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Can't no longer wait for my Christmas,  i think Santa is sometimes sick with minor problem.
  hope he can come back full strength again soon.


----------



## DarknightDK

I'm interested in picking up a Super 7. If anyone has a change of mind and would like to give up his spot, shoot me a PM. I'll be happy to take his place.


----------



## ctemkin

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> The new transformer is not better than the previous one so there will no change and the items
> should be finished this year.


 
   
  kiertijai,
   
  Do you mean that the transformers will become available to Craig this year (only a few days off)?  Any idea when he may be ready to ship the Super 7s?


----------



## kiertijai

@ctemkin,
     The last 2-3 days I have chances to get information about super7 and he said that it has
  arrived but it is not better than the Electra transformer.   He has got all the parts and he will
  begin the assembly soon but it may not be ready for the Christmas and New Year that my
  spouse will love this as a Christmas present for me (I have to order myself but I also need
  to get her approval first).  I think it may be in January because all the PCB's are ready.
      BTW, I have tried to get the tubes to be used i.e.
  Warm sounding set for HD800 :   Mullard ECC32 (driver) or B65, Tungsol VT99 round plate from 1940's,
  National Union VT99 round plate, but I don't know the third one  may be Ken Rad 6F8G       or Ken Rad VT231
  vs Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
  Lean sound set for LCD2/3 :   Mullard ECC33 (driver), a pair of Swedish Standard or TFK 6SN7GTA, a pair
  of SICTE 1940's  and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
  What do you think?


----------



## ctemkin

kiertijai,
   
  I understand the need for prior approval; same here.
   
  From what you say, it looks as if January is a real possibility; that would be nice.
   
  I am a complete nooby regarding tube amplifiers--this will be my first one--and so I really can't advise on tube selection.  That said, I have collected a number of Sylvania 6sn7ws and Ken Rad VT231s, which appears to represent somewhat the same choices as you have made.  While I have an LCD2 and will no doubt try it on the Super 7, my main motivation is to use the Super 7 with my HD800.  I am hoping the Super 7 will, with the right set of tubes, bring up the bass and possibly soften the treble somewhat, while preserving all the other great characteristics of the HD800.


----------



## kiertijai

@ctemkin,
       I think January is a real possibility.  Craig has found that the new transformer is not better.
       He said that if he found out that the new transformer is better, he would provide the new transformer
  to us without any additional charge but we can choose the original transformer.
       In my warm sound preemptive tube rolling (those ideas are from Marv and Mike): I found out that
  I preferred the VT99 more than the 6SN7's (especially with the skyrocketing price of the Tungsol BGRP)
  so I will try to use the VT99's there .  I think the ECC32 or B65 may be too expensive so I think I will try the STC
  CV1988 instead and I may prefer the Kenrad more now. The Sylvania 6SN7W  is also very good and have
  more dynamic bass which should be better with the LCD2  rev1 but now I have the LCD3 (the one without
  sample driver problem, I don't think it's the cable or not enough burnin) I may need the Sylvania less and I also have
   the Tungsol VT99 with should help in that regard also .


----------



## kiertijai

I got news from Craig and the super 7 is almost ready and will ship soon.
  Here is the picture of the S7.  There is no hum even with the sensitive headphones


----------



## Gatepc

I'm loving the finished design, as with all of the Eddie Current amps it is beautiful!


----------



## purrin

I really regret not getting on the list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Enjoy for everyone who got it at the once-in-a-lifetime deal.


----------



## knopi

Why purrin? You have ECBA...


----------



## santacore

Quote: 





purrin said:


> I really regret not getting on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'll enjoy it for you, don't worry. Hopefully it will be very soon too!!!


----------



## Draygonn

gatepc said:


> I'm loving the finished design, as with all of the Eddie Current amps it is beautiful!




+1 Way better than the prototype for obv. reasons. If I add another tube amp this would likely be the one.


----------



## santacore

Still no news from Craig. This project just keeps dragging and dragging......


----------



## Elysian

Good things come to those that wait   I wish I was able to get in on that entry offer.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





elysian said:


> Good things come to those that wait   I wish I was able to get in on that entry offer.


 


  Same here. kicking myself for missing out on that. I'm sure the Super 7 will ship soon, at least by the end of the month.


----------



## purrin

Mr. Eddie Current is bringing a full production S7 to the meet. It is my understanding that they will start shipping after the meet.


----------



## KingStyles

Is the Electra prototype going to be ready for the meet?


----------



## CEE TEE

Aww, yeah.  I have some tubes _waiting_ for their home...really happy to hear that a *full-production Super 7* will be at the meet!!


----------



## santacore

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Mr. Eddie Current is bringing a full production S7 to the meet. It is my understanding that they will start shipping after the meet.


 


  Which meet, San Francisco? If so, probably another few weeks then.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





santacore said:


> Which meet, San Francisco? If so, probably another few weeks then.


 

 Yup, if lucky a few of us will be able to pick our up  in person.  Fingers crossed.  
   
  Last I talked to him the Electra was more doubtful as it was undergoing a more production ready revision from the ground up.  The one purrin and I heard was quite a raw sample but sounded damned good.  That was about a month ago so no idea how much the Electra has progressed.


----------



## kiertijai

Bay Area Meeting is coming, I hope that Super7 is there.
  Please share your experience of Super7.


----------



## CEE TEE

I'm going to try and steal an extra one and have the first *Super 14*.
   
  Anaxilus will have first *Super 007*.


----------



## KingStyles

I asked Craig about the electra a couple of days ago and he said it wasnt going to be there.


----------



## kiertijai

I heard from the Bay area meeting that the super7 is much improved from the prototype
  Please share more impressions.
  BTW what are the tubes used in that meeting?  I think 3 pairs of reissue Tungsol 6SN7
  but what is the driver with that adapter?


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> I heard from the Bay area meeting that the super7 is much improved from the prototype
> Please share more impressions.
> BTW what are the tubes used in that meeting?  I think 3 pairs of reissue Tungsol 6SN7
> but what is the driver with that adapter?


 


  looks like a 7n7


----------



## kiertijai

@IndieScent : thanks   I also think that it may be the 7N7 or 7AF7  ? Sylvania long bottle
  I was informed all the 7N7's are Sylvania and long bottle sounds better than the short bottle
  (which resemble 6SN7GTB).  *So Craig is using all the inexpensive tubes and can make the super 7*
*sound very good. *
  Then how's about the more expensive tubes like 6F8G's (Tungsol, NU) or 6C8G's ( KenRad, Raytheon)?
  And how'as about the 6CG7's or 6GU7's : RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon which are cheaper and good sounding
  can we use them with the super 7?


----------



## ctemkin

I just saw on the Eddie Current site that the Super 7s will ship this month.  Can't wait.


----------



## xchagg

So, did anyone *not *go for the coupling cap upgrade?


----------



## kiertijai

*the coupling cap upgrade*
*  * I did not know that , what does it help?


----------



## santacore

Quote: 





xchagg said:


> So, did anyone *not *go for the coupling cap upgrade?


 


  Went for it.......


----------



## CEE TEE

Went for the coupling cap upgrade...figure it must be better if offered as an upgrade for a <very slight> increase in price.
   
  TRYING not to get too antsy but hope the S7 now arrives soon!!!


----------



## Radio_head

While discussing the Balancing Act with Craig, I touched on the Electra.  Here is what he had to say:
   
  
 "The production Electra is nearing completion. The metal is finished, and the circuit board is being made. I hope to have the finished amp in March, production in April, delivery in May, price less than $3k.
 The Electra is an all tube original design, 4 6SN7 tubes, and four 6L6GTB. Balanced input to output. Front panel has balanced, unbalanced input switch, bias adjust, and volume. The amp swings power, 40 watts of plate power per channel, 1800 volts peak to peak."
  
 [note -this is not necessarily the final version but that's where he's at for now.  I was bracing myself for a price tag upwards of 5K...phew.]


----------



## Anaxilus

Thought I would post this about the cap upgrade.  Based on some questions I asked:
   
  "The S7 at the last meet had the cap upgrade, it is the same tin foil cap I use in the new BA’s. It sounds much better than the Chinese film caps, and better than the Russian Teflon caps I used to use in the BA. The only reason not to upgrade is the added cost."


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> While discussing the Balancing Act with Craig, I touched on the Electra.  Here is what he had to say:
> 
> 
> "The production Electra is nearing completion. The metal is finished, and the circuit board is being made. I hope to have the finished amp in March, production in April, delivery in May, price less than $3k.
> ...


 
   
  I figured it would go up to $3K. Originally his target was around $2300, then $2700, etc.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> *the coupling cap upgrade*
> *  * I did not know that , what does it help?


 
   
  Transparency / clarity.
   
  In general, caps (in the signal path as it pertains here) tend to make things warm and thick sounding, not always a bad thing. I'm sure Craig chose a cap that maintained the existing tonality while offering more transparency. Probably accounts for why the few folks who heard the S7 proto earlier thought it sounded slightly better (and with mediocre tubes too) at the Bay Area meet.
   
  I'm dreaming of using a BA as a pre-amp to power x2 S7s configured as monoblocks (or bi-amping) into high-efficiency speakers.


----------



## DarknightDK

I really need to hear one of the EC amps. Keeping an eye out for the Super 7, pissed that I missed out on the offer.


----------



## MusicRules

Purrin,
   
  I am looking to spend $4,000 on a high-end headphone amp. Already have HD800's and Ayre DAC (with balanced output option).
   
  I am sold on Eddie Current but need your advice. Awhile back, you mentioned the Super 7 as getting awfully close to the BA in sound quality but your comments from the Bay Area meet seem to indicate the S7 production model was not even close to the BA or did I read you wrong? In your opinion, would you spend the $4,000 on a BA and get basic quality interconnects, get the S7 and all high-end interconnects (all balanced of course) or wait for the Electra which seems to be a BA for less?? Or is the 2A3 something to check out (although I don't need the speaker amp option).
   
  Any comments would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Radio_head

Just to clarify, the Electra is an Electrostatic amp.  All the rest are dynamic.  So for that at least the decision would rest on which headphones you want to use.


----------



## DarknightDK

I would be interested to hear Purrin's thoughts on the above as well.


----------



## KingStyles

> I am looking to spend $4,000 on a high-end headphone amp. Already have HD800's and Ayre DAC (with balanced output option).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I havent heard the s7 yet but I have the ba. Personally I would get the BA and use cheap interconnects. The amp improvment will be bigger than a interconnect improvement. Its easy to upgrade interconnects in the future, but to sell the s7 and then put a order in for a ba and wait around for him to build it is a pain if you decide to upgrade in the future.



> [note -this is not necessarily the final version but that's where he's at for now. I was bracing myself for a price tag upwards of 5K...phew.]




Just wait till Craig releases his TOTL amp.

Cant wait for the electra. I have the money ready to go. I figure the Electra would make a nice starter amp to get into stats.


----------



## Anaxilus

While y'all wait for Purrin I can clarify somethings, maybe.  The S7 is closer to BA sound than at the Irvine meet now, but purrin's BA sounds better now too after he put in $3000 worth of NOS tubes.


----------



## KingStyles

Nos tubes do help the BA. They can make the BA really sing.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Nos tubes do help the BA. They can make the BA really sing.


 

 Well, he had NOS tubes in the BA before, just not the Osram PX25's.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





musicrules said:


> Purrin,
> 
> I am looking to spend $4,000 on a high-end headphone amp. Already have HD800's and Ayre DAC (with balanced output option).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Anax's comments regarding the BA pulling away from the S7 (in the SF Bay Area meet thread) were because of the tubes I'm currently running. Osram globe PX25s circa 1930. You can call Craig and ask about those! He raved about them for a few months until I was able to source a pair. They are pretty much impossible to find these days. Some minor mods to the BA will be required to run the PX25s (it's so easy you can do it yourself if you can solder.) The current production KR PX4s are good too, but they seem scarce these days, and they are still not as good as the PX25s. There are Sophia PX4s, but those sound like crap in the BA. Some people I know are running vintage Telefunken (impossible to find) or current production EML AD1s (I'm not sure with an adapter or if special order sockets - since they do take special sockets.) I'm of the opinion: "anything other than the 300B." It's just that 300B has a certain cachet to it. You can even get a BA with 2A3/45 option which may not be a bad idea.
   
  What tubes you run are a matter of taste, so it's hard for me to make solid recommendations without knowing you personally.
   
  The EC 2A3 does not have the high frequency heater for the filament - which is what gives the BA it's uniquely open sound. (Edit: also the BA has the silver secondaries on the output transformers = more resolution.) One reason to get the lesser cost EC amps first is to get familiar with their sound to see if you like it. Granted that different tubes make the amps sound different, there are certain qualities about EC amps which are very consistent from model to model. They are all very close to each other in how good they are. If I were to score them (assuming optimal toobs), it would go like this:
   
  S7      91%
  2A3    93%
  BA     98%
   
  (illustrative purposes only)
   
  The S7 won't be available for a while - until the next run. I believe Craig is already taking orders for another batch of BA's right now.


----------



## MusicRules

Thanks a bunch for everyone's input - very helpful. I am torn because the S7 is such a value but Purrin's comments about the open sound and greater resolution of the BA still makes this a tough choice for me. Let me consider everyone's comments and get come back to this great thread with some final questions.


----------



## Radio_head

You can also direct your questions to Craig. - I'm sure he has a passable knowledge of his own product line.  His contact info is available on his website.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





musicrules said:


> Thanks a bunch for everyone's input - very helpful. I am torn because the S7 is such a value but Purrin's comments about the open sound and greater resolution of the BA still makes this a tough choice for me. Let me consider everyone's comments and get come back to this great thread with some final questions.


 

 Don't forget DAC or TT. Source matters - more when you move up.


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> You can also direct your questions to Craig. - I'm sure he has a passable knowledge of his own product line.  His contact info is available on his website.






   
  Though I'm glad that MusicRules asked the questions here because we got to hear the answers too...these amps have been changing a lot with the different versions and tubes.
   
  @purrin and @Anaxilus are a couple of the only ones that have had access to all of these amps (they have been able to borrow prototypes) and have heard them through the iterative process.
   
  (Helps that they live nearer to Craig's operations and are very active here.)
   
_In order to hear the <earlier> prototypes, I had to drive down to SoCal to hear and compare them all..._


----------



## kiertijai

Transparency / clarity.
   
  In general, caps (in the signal path as it pertains here) tend to make things warm and thick sounding, not always a bad thing. I'm sure Craig chose a cap that maintained the existing tonality while offering more transparency. Probably accounts for why the few folks who heard the S7 proto earlier thought it sounded slightly better (and with mediocre tubes too) at the Bay Area meet.
   
  I'm dreaming of using a BA as a pre-amp to power x2 S7s configured as monoblocks (or bi-amping) into high-efficiency speakers.
*     Thanks Purrin ,  I am in for the coupling cap mod.
      *


----------



## kiertijai

It is very difficult to get the NOS Osram PX25's with good price.
  They are still available from time to time in Japan auction as well as the globe Osram PX4,
  sometimes the French equivalents such as Mazda PP3/250 (PX4) and PP5/400 (PX25) and the German Telefunken RE604
  I currently use the Telefunken AD1 Nos with the BA with great result,  I haven't heard the Osram PX25's
  yet because I need to modify my BA and am waiting for the B4/UX4 adapter.
*@Purrin,   do the modification for PX25 of the BA affect other tubes (KR PX4, 300B) sound too and in what way?*


----------



## purrin

After the mod, you can theoretically only run PX25 and PX4 (no 300B). Although one person is running an EML 300B Mesh with the PX4 bias. It depends upon the tube. Best to check with Mr. Eddie Current.


----------



## pigmode

Quote: 





purrin said:


>


 


   
  Slightly OT, but probably relevant.
   
  Have you experience with the 307A BA? I'd be interested in an amp of that caliber with a tonality similar to the Millet Arete. My main concern would be that any warmth in the mid and upper midrange, does not shroud the clarity of the upper registers--a situation that is common in many warmish (tube) amps.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *pigmode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Slightly OT, but probably relevant.
> 
> Have you experience with the 307A BA? I'd be interested in an amp of that caliber with a tonality similar to the Millet Arete. My main concern would be that any warmth in the mid and upper midrange, does not shroud the clarity of the upper registers--a situation that is common in many warmish (tube) amps.


 

 No experience with the 307A. There are lots of combinations of driver and output tubes that you can use to get achieve a tonal balance similar to the Arete - which is a warm sounding amp (which upon a second listen, I actually prefer the Arete to the Peak.)
   
  None of the EC amps sound like those warmish rolled tube amps that you mention. You'd have to try really hard with bad sounding tubes to get that effect. Actually, I don't know if it's even possible.
   
  If you want the Apex Peak sound, stick in KR PX25s.


----------



## kiertijai

*After the mod, you can theoretically only run PX25 and PX4 (no 300B).*
     Yes Craig said that it will hurt the 300B a little bit but we can still use that.
      BTW, does it affect the sound of the KR PX4?


----------



## purrin

Nope. Basically what the mod does it make the old PX4 position for PX25s, and the old 300B position for PX4s. It sort of aligns perfectly. If you wanted to get really fancy, you can install another switch (for two switches) to run all three (PX25, PX4, 300B) properly. I can you a simple diagram on how to do this if you are interested.


----------



## KingStyles

> Nope. Basically what the mod does it make the old PX4 position for PX25s, and the old 300B position for PX4s. It sort of aligns perfectly. If you wanted to get really fancy, you can install another switch (for two switches) to run all three (PX25, PX4, 300B) properly. I can you a simple diagram on how to do this if you are interested.




Awww I see now, I thought the mod would take away the px4 spot and replace it with the px25. If I get to keep the px4 spot and the px25, that would be awesome. I will want this to be done to mine.


----------



## kiertijai

*Nope. Basically what the mod does it make the old PX4 position for PX25s, and the old 300B position for PX4s. It sort of aligns perfectly. If you wanted to get really fancy, you can install another switch (for two switches) to run all three (PX25, PX4, 300B) properly. I can you a simple diagram on how to do this if you are interested.*
*    *@Purrin : thanks   please show me how to do that.
      BTW what is the sound quality of the KR PX4 after the PX25 modification
      Please confirm your finding because according to what I have been told which I may
  misunderstand is that the PX25 will be in the 300B position and the 300B + PX4 will be in the PX4 position.  We can still use the 300B but it may hurt the tube a little bit but should be all right.
  PSU should be set at 5V for 300B and 4 V for PX4 and PX25 (filament voltage)


----------



## kiertijai

@Purrin,  Craig has answered back. I am confused between the PX4 and 300B switch.
  However it seems like we can use the 300B with the modified BA for PX25.
  Here is what he answered
   
*The PX25 mod uses the PX4 switch position for the PX25, and the 300B switch position for the 300B, or PX4. No need to add another switch.*
*4V on the power supply for either PX4, or PX25. 5V for 300B*
*He also said that the change in 300B will be subtle*
   
*     *The reason that I have asked about this because I am considering whether I should have the BA modified or not because
  I am also happy with the 300B tubes that I have.  If the modification does not change much about the sound or the life of the 300B tube or KR PX4
  than I would like to do that also.
 [size=small]    

[/size]


----------



## prtuc2

I am about to pre-order on the Super 7, but my question is should I order the tube package with the amp or shop it separately? First time buying a tube amp kind of unsure how different tubes sound (drive my Sennheiser HD650).


----------



## CEE TEE

Based on the prototype, I would have recommended getting your own tubes right off the bat (and that's what I have done).
   
*Based upon listening to the production version* at the Bay Area Meet and being happily surprised at how even the new Tung Sols sounded (though with a NOS 7N7 + adapter as the drive tube)?  Tougher choice.
   
  If you have the "stock" Tung Sols, you can get your unit fired up immediately and not worry about "spending" NOS tubes getting used to it or running it.
   
  And, the Tung Sols could serve as a baseline for you to start swapping tubes into it...and know what the new tubes do.
   
  I have enough NOS Sylvanias that I can use them as a baseline to start rolling other tubes in.
   
   
  I think it's pretty hard to communicate how tubes sound, personally- so you will probably want to have fun trying different tubes yourself.
   
  Unless you have already spent some time reading/contacting tube sellers/collecting tubes, I would recommend getting with the stock tubes if your first tube amp.
   
  (Takes some tube-shopping pressure off.)


----------



## IndieScent

the tube package is the base 7 repro tungsols tube?


----------



## santacore

One of the first out in the wild. Just got it home and have yet to fire it up. I'm going to tube it up and try it out, once I eat and relax a bit (just got home from work).
  ,


----------



## CEE TEE

Good idea.  Don't get food on it.


----------



## CEE TEE

Second thought- it looks really tough.  Could stand up to something like tacos.
   
*Please get 'er fired up and let us know how late you stay up tonight.*
   
  Jealous up here in NorCal.


----------



## santacore

Cee Tee, I believe I was the very first to order and of course live in So. Cal., so I have a slight advantage. I'm sure more units will ship out in the next week.
   
  Firing it up for the first time with a mess of chrome dome 6SN7's. Unfortunately I came down with a head cold yesterday, so real impressions might be a while. No worries, I will persevere and listen on!!


----------



## CEE TEE

You get lots of points for posting a pic before eating/relaxing/listening.
   
  More points for posting a pic again with tubes and an explanation!!!
   
  We'll compare tube combos at the next SoCal meet...did you do the coupling cap upgrade?
   
  I'm actually enjoying a TTVJ Portable Millett Hybrid right now with the HD 800.
   
  Loses clarity but takes "the edge off" and "lushes things up" for HD 800 _*PLUS*_ is (trans)portable!
   
  So, I can wait a <little longer>.  Take your time and get better.  Good to know they are getting out there!!


----------



## kiertijai

That's a beauty.
  I hope mine will ship early next month too.
  Can the super7 use the 6C8G's ?  I have just purchased 6 of NU 6C8g's
  quite cheap : 5 NOS tubes at 31$
  If not I will use the 6F8G's and 6SN7's for that


----------



## CEE TEE

@kiertijai- I am considering getting a couple of adapters and trying some 6F8G too.
   
  Or, are you going to try as single driver tube?
   
_Not sure about 6C8G..._


----------



## santacore

Don't know about those tubes guys, I would check with Craig. I'm sticking with plain old 6SN7's for now.
   
  A quick listen with my LCD-2, re-affirmed why I order the amp. Quick, punchy, musical, and that great bass. So far, I'm very pleased with my purchase.


----------



## kiertijai

I plan to use the ECC 35 Mullard as driver and combination of 6F8G's and
  6SN7's for power tubes.   However if the super7 can use the 6C8G's that will be
  better because I have recently got the NU 6C8G's at good price.  The 6C8G's
  use the same adapter as the 6F8G's and the adapters are cheaper.  Another tubes
  that I have asked Craig and can be used are the 6CG7's, the tubes are cheap but
  the adapters are different from the 6F8G's and more expensive , may be more than
  the tubes.   There is a blog in 6SN7 addict mentioned that one member sacd lover?
  prefer the 6CG7's more than the 6SN7's in term of sound and price.
  Electrically the 6CG7's are similar to 6SN7's while the 6C8G's are between the 6SN7's
  and 6SL7's .  We can use the 6SL7's (including the ECC35) as drivers but not
  as power tubes.


----------



## Anaxilus

Ewww, I have not heard a 9 pin tube I've liked.  I've talked to two others that feel the same way, one of whom you know.  The 6CG7 is a great way to turn your tube amp into a more typical one dimensional Solid State sounding amp.


----------



## rosgr63

I have tried a few 6CG7 and 6FQ7 but I don't find them better than the 6SN7.
   
  purrin can you share the details of the two and one switch mods to the BA please?


----------



## kiertijai

*I have tried a few 6CG7 and 6FQ7 but I don't find them better than the 6SN7.*
   
       Thanks, I will not attempt the 6CG7's or the 6FQ7's.  I will try the NU 6C8G's that I have with
  the super7.  Hope it will arrive soon.


----------



## kiertijai

*purrin can you share the details of the two and one switch mods to the BA please?*
*    *Yes, please show us how to
      I will have the sticker or something to mark that so it will not be too confusing.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> *I have tried a few 6CG7 and 6FQ7 but I don't find them better than the 6SN7.*
> 
> Thanks, I will not attempt the 6CG7's or the 6FQ7's.  I will try the NU 6C8G's that I have with
> the super7.  Hope it will arrive soon.


 


  Dear Kiertijai, on the contrary I think you should try a couple, they are not expensive and you'll know for sure if you like them more.
   
  I hope you receive your S7 soon.


----------



## purrin

Will do on the mods w/ pictures and diagrams. Give me a few days.


----------



## rosgr63

OK, Thanks


----------



## prtuc2

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> That's a beauty.
> I hope mine will ship early next month too.
> Can the super7 use the 6C8G's ?  I have just purchased 6 of NU 6C8g's
> quite cheap : 5 NOS tubes at 31$
> If not I will use the 6F8G's and 6SN7's for that


 


  Actually this is what Craig told me when I tried to pre-order for the next run.
   
*We are running the S7 amps again March 14th. The new S7 will include the cap upgrade, have a switch to turn off the speakers, and will accommodate three different driver tubes. 6SN7, 6C8G with adapter, and the 6SL7.*


----------



## kiertijai

What is the price of the new super7?
  Does the first batch have the speakerpost?  I can not remember the specification.
  I do think that the first batch can use the 6SN7, 6SL7 and 6C8G as drivers
  The 6SL7's cannot be used as power tubes but I am not sure about the 6C8G's


----------



## Anaxilus

S7 always had speakerposts.  I'm fine w/ a cleaner circuit w/o the switch.  Not sure about the last part, thought it could always use those as driver tubes?


----------



## prtuc2

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> What is the price of the new super7?
> Does the first batch have the speakerpost?  I can not remember the specification.
> I do think that the first batch can use the 6SN7, 6SL7 and 6C8G as drivers
> The 6SL7's cannot be used as power tubes but I am not sure about the 6C8G's


 

 All the information on pricing and the inputs/outputs are listed here.
   
  If you guys don't mind answering my noobie question, how exactly do you read the specification on this amplifier? The reason I asked is that my current amp is rated @300ohms --- 1350mV, but the Super 7 is 200mV I thought there must be something I left out cause I don't think my current amp is closed to 7 times the power of the Super 7.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Oh, thanks for the link!!  That's the first that I have seen an official page for the Super 7!


----------



## tme110

If you're talking about your ROC, the ROC is extremely powerful.  Though I don't think it's Class-A at that power. Though more power does not mean better.
  
  Quote: 





prtuc2 said:


> All the information on pricing and the inputs/outputs are listed here.
> 
> If you guys don't mind answering my noobie question, how exactly do you read the specification on this amplifier? The reason I asked is that my current amp is rated @300ohms --- 1350mV, but the Super 7 is 200mV I thought there must be something I left out cause I don't think my current amp is closed to 7 times the power of the Super 7.


----------



## purrin

Modifications to the Eddie Current Balancing Act to take PX25 tubes. Click on linky below. http://www.head-fi.org/t/598460/eddie-current-balancing-act-mod-for-px25


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> If you're talking about your ROC, the ROC is extremely powerful.  Though I don't think it's Class-A at that power. Though more power does not mean better.


 

 LOL, this stupid power game. Don't know exactly when or how it got started with headphones. I guess I blame the HE6 for it. Rumor has is that because of this recent emphasis on massive power, Craig will be coming out with a ~30W solid-state design a la Dark Star.


----------



## kiertijai

*Modifications to the Eddie Current Balancing Act to take PX25 tubes. Click on linky below.* *http://www.head-fi.org/t/598460/eddie-current-balancing-act-mod-for-px25*

      thanks so much


----------



## pteromorph

I just received my Super 7 (S/N 4).  It made the trip from CA to PA unharmed despite FedEx trying really hard to drown it.  Thanks to the excellent packaging, no harm at all.  Plugging in the stock tubes and hooking up the DAC and Grado HP 2s was easy.  I then let things settle in for 30 minutes - yes, I do have that will power.
   
   
  Dialed up a variety of tracks (string quartet, full scale orchestra, jazz, pop and some electronica).
  My wife looked at me - I was sweating profusely... this is how strongly I reacted to the pure joy pouring into my ears.
  I really cannot congratulate Craig enough and thank him for this wonderful amplifier.
  Absolutely silent background, rich detail, electrostatic like transient speed, beautiful rendition of overtones, space... I can go on gushing.
  Cannot wait to plug in my Audeze LCD 2.  I am using a Violectric 200, no slouch... but this amp is in a different league (with maybe one hour on it).  Truly wonderful.  Beyond goose bumps.
   
  Forward two hours... Now Audeze LCD 2...wow...
  It is like moving from row 1 to row 5 AND so much more tuneful and colorful bass.
   
  Thank you again, Craig, I could not be happier!


----------



## CEE TEE

Okay, okay...that's _not a bad first post_.


----------



## Anaxilus

Gave me goosebumps.  Please, gush on!


----------



## santacore

Sorry, I've been enjoying mine too much to post. I've been having fun today playing with input tubes to go with my Sylvania chrome dome output tubes. It's amazing how much change I'm hearing between input tubes. I've been through 3 different VT-231's(RCA, Ken-Rad, and National-Union)and they have all sounded different. As I type I have a Sylvania 6SN7W(black base) in place. So far this is my favorite of the bunch. 

This amp continues to impress. It defintely has the Eddie Current house sound and is extremely quiet in my rig. My only complaint is that the volume pot is uneven at low volumes. Thankfully most of my listening is with my LCD-2's is in the 9 o'clock position, so no big deal. In a few days I'll bust out my HD800's and see how they play.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Thanks for checking in and qualifying your remarks...I'm gonna be happy to compare notes (Sylvania Chrome-domes will also be my "mainstays" to start also)!


----------



## ctemkin

Santacore, I look forward to your experience with the HD800s.
   
  I suppose it can't be too long before mine is shipped, but anyone have any information on how fast they are being shipped?  It seems that only 2 have been shipped so far.
   
  So far I have been thinking of the S7 mainly in terms of how, with the right tubes, it can produce more bass and possibly less treble for the HD800s.  Are there any 6sn7s that might boost treble somewhat, and thus be useful with LCD-2s?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





ctemkin said:


> Are there any 6sn7s that might boost treble somewhat, and thus be useful with LCD-2s?


 
  Oh there's a bunch that can lean out some and add sparkle.  Sylvania GTA's I've run across seem to do well.  The 6H8C Soviet tubes.  Assuming r.1 not r.2?


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





ctemkin said:


> Santacore, I look forward to your experience with the HD800s.
> I suppose it can't be too long before mine is shipped, but anyone have any information on how fast they are being shipped?  It seems that only 2 have been shipped so far.
> So far I have been thinking of the S7 mainly in terms of how, with the right tubes, it can produce more bass and possibly less treble for the HD800s.  Are there any 6sn7s that might boost treble somewhat, and thus be useful with LCD-2s?


 
   
  Santacore may be running a leaner set for this LCD2 than what Anax and I were shooting for on the HD800. Sylvania VT-231 or WGTs in the driver will definitely lean it out too. You guys will have all the fun in the world rolling tubes.
   
  @pterimorph: See you've been a long time lurker and glad you are enjoying it. It's pretty awesome isn't it?
   
  @rest of the soon-to-be-owners: Having a bunch of 6SN7s on a PCB for output tubes doesn't exactly get you cachet, but *YOU GUYS STOLE IT AT $1400.* Welcome to "Summit-Fi", considering the other stuff discussed in that thread.


----------



## ctemkin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Oh there's a bunch that can lean out some and add sparkle.  Sylvania GTA's I've run across seem to do well.  The 6H8C Soviet tubes.  Assuming r.1 not r.2?


 


   You are correct, r.1, not r.2.  Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## pteromorph

Some more S7 impressions.  
   
  The S7/LCD 2 combo is something to behold.  I have the tendency to be a very analytical listener (play piano and pipe organ).  That can get in the way of enjoying the music. However, the music pouring out of this system is extremely detailed without making your ears bleed, has great rhythm and pace, a deep and wide soundstage, and with wonderful 'colors' of tone.  The attack and decay are phenomenal.  Pure joy.  I have switched between iPhone/iPad direct, either via Pure, and W4S DAC 2 as well as Oppo BDP95.  Differences are immediately discernable.  Hope to get a chance to check out an Eastern Electric Minimax Plus this weekend.  But I digress...this is an incredibly rewarding and satisfying amp.  I am sure I will continue to uncover more - like a big red wine - with time.
   
  The Violectric 200 is a very fine amp.  In comparison, to my ears, it is more like an extremely neutral tool that allows one to deeply dissect a recording, if so inclined.  At this point, the S7 adds to that a huge emotional component with the physical reaction described in my previous post.  However, without the adrenalin rush that can get numbing to the senses with prolonged exposure.
   
  @purrin - no, not really.  Found this forum months after I had placed my order.  My first headphone was a Stax SR Gamma Pro (late 80s), then Grado HP 2 (early 90s).  Still have both of them.  I got interested in higher performance within a budget late last year and literally stumbled upon the LCD 2.  I have been - ahem - lusting for one of Craig's creations ever since laying eyes on a Moth 2A3.  It was WAY out of my reach then.  The S7 is bringing magic within my budget.
   
  If the amp is within your means, go get it.  It is that good - stock.  Then put your hard earned money into music.  You will be rewarded for a long time to come.


----------



## santacore

Quote: 





> Are there any 6sn7s that might boost treble somewhat, and thus be useful with LCD-2s?


 
  Yes, the Ken-Rad VT-231 had a wonderful high end that complimented the LCD's. Unfortunately it also had a very lean low end, which ultimately was a deal breaker for me. Plus the presentation was a little too upfront for my tastes. Last night I rolled in a Sylvania 6SN7W tube, and smoothed out the presentation and balanced out the spectrum. I think I'll enjoy this tube for a few days before trying anything else.
   
  As for the Violectric V200 comparsion(which I have owned), this amp is a step up. I always felt the V200 was a great amp, but was a bit dark/rolled off in the high end. It was a nice match for the HD800's, but not for the LCD-2's. The Super 7 seems to be more neutral and of course give you a lot more options because of the big differences changing the input tube can make.


----------



## xchagg

Quote: 





santacore said:


> Yes, the Ken-Rad VT-231 had a wonderful high end that complimented the LCD's. Unfortunately it also had a very lean low end, which ultimately was a deal breaker for me.


 
   
  This is interesting because I was under the impression that Ken-Rads (at least the staggered plate ones) are bass monsters.
   
  I was planning to run a pair, or even 2 pairs as output tubes to warm up the HD800.


----------



## prtuc2

Would you guys mind doing me a favor? Just wanted to know the height of the amp w/6NS7 tubes cause I think I might running into some clearance issue with the amp fittings inside my desk.


----------



## santacore

Quote:


xchagg said:


> This is interesting because I was under the impression that Ken-Rads (at least the staggered plate ones) are bass monsters.
> 
> I was planning to run a pair, or even 2 pairs as output tubes to warm up the HD800.


 
   Not in my experience with this amp. Here is a pic of my current configuration with the Ken-Rad propped up next to the Sylvania input tube.

   
   
    
  Quote:


> Would you guys mind doing me a favor? Just wanted to know the height of the amp w/6NS7 tubes cause I think I might running into some clearance issue with the amp fittings inside my desk.


 
   
  I measure about 8" total with the short bottle tubes I'm using.


----------



## prtuc2

Thanks santacore, that left me with 2.5inches headroom should do the trick.  Hopefully, I will be on the list for the next production run.


----------



## pigmode

Someday I'll have another EC....


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





xchagg said:


> This is interesting because I was under the impression that Ken-Rads (at least the staggered plate ones) are bass monsters.
> 
> I was planning to run a pair, or even 2 pairs as output tubes to warm up the HD800.


 

 My Ken Rads are of the warmer variety and do add a bit more to the low end but it's not the extreme 'monster' type bass people make it out to be.  The high end on my particular KRads is nothing to write home about compared to my Sylvania GTA's and Rogers 7N7s.
   
  Quote: 





prtuc2 said:


> Would you guys mind doing me a favor? Just wanted to know the height of the amp w/6NS7 tubes cause I think I might running into some clearance issue with the amp fittings inside my desk.


 

 Hopefully you'll have decent airflow and venting?  Craig did design this to be one of the least heat producing tube amps compared to something like the ZD but still.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





santacore said:


> Yes, the Ken-Rad VT-231 had a wonderful high end that complimented the LCD's. Unfortunately it also had a very lean low end, which ultimately was a deal breaker for me. Plus the presentation was a little too upfront for my tastes. Last night I rolled in a Sylvania 6SN7W tube, and smoothed out the presentation and balanced out the spectrum. I think I'll enjoy this tube for a few days before trying anything else.
> 
> As for the Violectric V200 comparsion(which I have owned), this amp is a step up. I always felt the V200 was a great amp, but was a bit dark/rolled off in the high end. It was a nice match for the HD800's, but not for the LCD-2's. The Super 7 seems to be more neutral and of course give you a lot more options because of the big differences changing the input tube can make.


 


  hi santacore, how would you compare the S7 to the singlepower mpx3 slam you once owned? any comparisons would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## manveru

Any possible elaborations on how the Super 7 sounded with AD2000s? Man, the LA meet can't come soon enough. I'd be all over one of these.


----------



## attilahun

I heard the S7 at the SF meet and loved it too. 
I also liked the 2A3, Zana and BA. 
This thread is focused on BA and S7 but I'd love to compare all four because I'm enthralled with the EC sound and am fumbling around trying to figure out which model to buy.
I couldn't find another thread that compares the whole line...any thoughts much appreciated.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





attilahun said:


> I heard the S7 at the SF meet and loved it too.
> I also liked the 2A3, Zana and BA.
> This thread is focused on BA and S7 but I'd love to compare all four because I'm enthralled with the EC sound and am fumbling around trying to figure out which model to buy.
> I couldn't find another thread that compares the whole line...any thoughts much appreciated.


 

 You need to figure out what you want from your amp and with which phones and how much you want to spend.  For me, the S7 was a price/performance and synergy consideration to be able to roll all those tubes.  BA is ultimate in transparency by opening up the sound and offers balanced inputs but no speaker posts.  ZD is pure OTL topology.  2A3 is like the middle child between S7 and BA.  What's amazing is how close his lineup is to each other on the sonic aspects that seem to matter most.  The 'meat' of the music one could say.  But you know this already from the meet.  =)


----------



## pteromorph

Like Anaxilus said - you need to determine what you are looking for.
   
  For me, it is the S7 all the way.  Stratospherical price/performance, ability to hook up high sensitivity speakers when I am ready, great synergy with my headphones.
   
  Did a lot of listening today.  Sources anything from MP3 to 24/192, various DACs, devices and players.  The differences are obvious (no, I do not 'see' them as the word would suggest, I DO hear them).  What strikes me most is that I feel myself drawn into the music.  There are great $9 wines and there are wonderful $20 wines.  Yes, there are more wonderful pricier wines, too.  My point is, the S7 will bring out the best and reward every improvement on the input.  Based on a sample of n=2 (Grado HP 2 and Audeze 2), I dare to extrapolate that to the output too.
  Spiegelau glasses serve me well for everyday but Riedel are my favorite.  The S7 is both.  Someone (  ) had this to say in a previous post:
   
  The S7 is bringing magic within my budget.  If the amp is within your means, go get it.  It is that good - stock.  Then put your hard earned money into music.  You will be rewarded for a long time to come.


----------



## santacore

Quote:


takezo said:


> hi santacore, how would you compare the S7 to the singlepower mpx3 slam you once owned? any comparisons would be appreciated, thanks.


 


  Unfortunately it's been too long, and I've changed too much gear since then to compare. I didn't even have my LCD-2's back then, which has been my main headphone for the last year or more.
   
   
  Quote:


> This thread is focused on BA and S7 but I'd love to compare all four because I'm enthralled with the EC sound and am fumbling around trying to figure out which model to buy.


 
   
  I think most of his amps have a similar sound, so you need to decide based on budget, function, and compatibility with your favorite phone. Whichever way you choose, I think you will be very happy. I know I am.....


----------



## takezo

yeah, it's been awhile. still hope to read your impressions soon. thanks


----------



## purrin

*Balancing Act:*

 Silver secondary output transformers = higher resolution
 Takes PX4/300B (easy mods for other DHTs) - huge selecton of 300Bs and other tubes - best _readily-available _tubes_ _are current production 300Bs and KR PX4 ($$$$)
 Can roll both 6SN7 and output tubes - lots of flexibility but $$$$
 No speaker outputs / headphone and line out only
 High frequency AC heater - most open and largest head stage all of known head amps on the planet
   
*2A3*

 Transformer output
 Takes 2A3 and 45 DHTs - huge selection of tubes including many good _readily-available_ vintage tubes
 Can roll both 6SN7 and output tubes
 Has speaker outputs + headphone
   
*Zana Deux*

 OTL - capacitor on output
 6C33C-B output tubes - not too many of these types
 Just roll the 6SL7 driver - less rolling flexibility, but don't have to worry about the power triodes since no choices for it really
 No speaker outputs / headphone out only
 Gain / output Z switch (can really come in handy)
   
*Super 7*
   

 Transformer output
 PCB - no point-to-point wiring
 2x3 6SN7s for output - massive flexibility for reasonable prices - possibility of developing neurosis of constantly rolling tubes and never being happy instead of actually happily listening to music
 Can roll both 6SN7 for driver and outputs (to be 6SL7 driver too for the next run)
 Has speaker outputs + headphones
   
  The selection process is very easy if you want an Eddie Current amp: buy the most you can afford while considering if you also need to power high-efficiency speakers.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





purrin said:


> *...*
> 
> *Zana Deux*
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Zana Deux SE has two pairs of line outs.
   
  Edit:  At least I hope it works as a preamp.  That's one of the reasons why I choose it.


----------



## bozebuttons

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> The Zana Deux SE has two pairs of line outs.
> 
> Edit:  At least I hope it works as a preamp.  That's one of the reasons why I choose it.


 
  I Have the non SE & it is a Very Good preamp.


----------



## santacore

I tried my HD800's for the first time last night, and was not pleased. Apparently the tube combination I loved with the LCD-2's, doesn't work at all with the HD800's. Really lean in the midrange and bass and bright on the top end. To some degree thats kind of the HD800's sound, but I was hoping for better. One of the reasons I bought this amp was beacause of how great the prototype sounded with the HD800's. The prototype balanced the high end and gave the mid/ bass a really nice, tight presence. I guess it's back to square one with tube rolling. Bummer.


----------



## purrin

Yeah, I saw your tube complement and first thing I thought was you must have been listening to your LCD2s. I didn't want to say anything about the HD800 with that set. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The current production Tung-Sols (that Craig used at Venice) are not as extended in the treble as the Sylvania chrome tops you are running. Also the chrome tops in the output tend to lean things out in the bass more than other tubes. I felt the production and even development units were much more neutral than the prototype that we heard at the Venice meet. Also Craig's Moth HyperDAC is on the dark side of DACs. Anax and I eventually resorted to HD800 foam mods.


----------



## santacore

You're a little late with that info, purrin. 

I've got a bunch of old GE's that I can try substituting for the chrome domes.

Once again a note to everyone-this amp seems highly sensitive to tube rolling and upstream equipment.


----------



## ctemkin

Just got a fedex notification, so my S7 is on its way.  Yippee.


----------



## tme110

very cool!  I'm jealous of you guys.
   
  now if you need help breaking that in, i'm your man.
  Quote: 





ctemkin said:


> Just got a fedex notification, so my S7 is on its way.  Yippee.


----------



## CEE TEE

Sorry, just phone pix...too busy enjoying.
  Posted some initial impressions in the Bay Area Meet Impressions thread.


----------



## manveru

Man, that is beautiful. Congratulations!


----------



## DarknightDK

Here's looking forward to some reviews of the Super 7, to those who got in on the first batch.


----------



## Elysian

That's a beautiful amp, CEE TEE   I bet we won't be hearing from you for awhile now!


----------



## purrin

Elysian: You sure you don't want to get one? It's only $1800 and can be used to drive high efficiency or desktop speakers? Or maybe an HD800 for your immense classical collection?


----------



## prtuc2

I will be looking forward to my Super 7 in the upcoming production run, going to unleash the beast within my HD650.  BTW, anyone got any recommendation on high end DAC selection? HRT Streamer II+ probably not going to be enough for this amp, but I will try the combo first before selling it off.


----------



## ctemkin

Mine arrived yesterday.  Unfortunately, we have guests in this weekend, and so I haven't been able to spend the time with it so far I would have liked.
   
  My first impression in taking it out of the box is how heavy it is.  Must be qu ite the transformer.
   
  I started off by putting in 7 Syl 6sn7w tubes (short bottle; black base with green print; mica below base), waiting half an hour, and plugging in my HD 800s.  Very pleasing sound.  I tried comparing the sound with my Apache, both connected to the Marantz SACD player, and it seemed to me that there was more bass punch on the S7 without apparently affecting the treble end much or the wide soundstage.  I found, though, that disconnecting the balanced headphone cables from the adapter I have on the S7 and re connecting to the Apache was so cumbersome that it was difficult to do a decent comparison.  I then decided to leave the HD 800s n the S7 and to compare them with the LCD 2 (rev.1) on the Apache, since then all I had to do was to take off one headphone and put on the other.  This was instructive, since I know that, on the Apache, the HD 800s had clearly less bass than the LCD 2 and also much more prominent treble.  Having little previous experience with tubes, I figured from reading Head-Fi threads that the Sylvania tubes would be fairly neutral, and this may be true, but nevertheless the bass output from the HD 800s was now much closer to the LCD 2.  The overall balance of the HD 800s was greatly improved.
   
  The music I was using to test the amp was primarily Black Magic Woman (the studio version) from the Abraxas SACD and the Brautigam (fortepiano) and Tchetuev renditions of the Appassionata.  The Santana piece has a wide range of sounds and a sibilant vocal part that is a good test of treble response; the Beethoven covers the register of the piano.  I have previously found that the Brautigam version through the Apache sounded a lot better on the LCD 2 than on the HD 800s; through the S7, the HD 800s were equivalently excellent. 
   
  Today I swapped out a pair of the Sylvania tubes for Ked Rad VT 231s (staggered plates).  This seemed to provide some additional bass output, again without negatively affecting the treble or anything else.  I am gong to try it this way for awhile as I revisit my music collection. 
   
  I should also point out that I found the speed, resolution, and noise floors of both amps very similar, which was great because I have always found the Apache to be wonderful.
   
  Thanks. Craig, I'm one happy camper.


----------



## Elysian

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Elysian: You sure you don't want to get one? It's only $1800 and can be used to drive high efficiency or desktop speakers? Or maybe an HD800 for your immense classical collection?


 

 Going to try to scale back my audio purchases this year after the BH, but after hearing the S7 at the meet, if I was building a dynamic setup or making a secondary rig, the S7 and BA would be at the top of my list.  The S7 did a nice job with the HD600 which doesn't sound great on most setups I've heard.  Wish I had a chance to hear the HD800 with the S7.  Still waiting to hear what CEE TEE thinks of his


----------



## CEE TEE

^@Elysian...I'm going to be ordering some more tubes.  When I think I have a handle on the tubes and what the amp can do, we'll meet up!


----------



## Anaxilus

Oh what fun!  Just spent the last 5 hours rolling tubes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 One last experiment to run w/ 6F8Gs before I settle for sure.  
   
  This freaking amp rocks.  Now that I have a few more tubes and adapters I'm running a bit of a different set-up.  Oddly, I'm finding I don't need to run any warmer tubes to synergize w/ my modded HD800s like with the prototype.  I'm running a very complimentary set of technically proficient, detailed, balanced tubes.  
   
  Compared to the protoype, better detail and transparency with better low end presence and impact too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Must be the cap upgrade and Electraprints over the Transcendars.  Now I get to focus on the music and not the tubes.  Hopefully I get to bed before the sun comes up.  
   
  Oh, those double C-Cores Craig has been working on?  Oh my.....


----------



## tme110

How many people getting/thinking about getting the S7 ever plan to use it with speakers?


----------



## xchagg

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> How many people getting/thinking about getting the S7 ever plan to use it with speakers?


 
   
  I'm using the S7 to drive a pair of PSB Imagine Mini's for desktop/nearfield listening. Only been hooked up for 36 h, but I'm enjoying the combo VERY much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (So much so that tube-rolling with the HD800 can wait for the next weekend heh).


----------



## santacore

Craig mentioned that he designed the amp for desktop speaker listening, not big room play. I'll keep that as an option down the line, but it's strictly headphones for me. I have a speaker rig that works just fine.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> How many people getting/thinking about getting the S7 ever plan to use it with speakers?


 

 I wasn't going to but something interesting showed up on my radar so that might change.  If it comes to pass I'll post some pic that might be amusing to some.


----------



## ctemkin

Just a quick update.  I have been using the combination of 5 Sylvania 6sn7ws and 2 Ken Rad VT 231s.  In comparison with my Apache, the bass output of the HD 800s is notably increased, and the treble is dialed back slightly.  This is precisely the effect I was looking for.  At the same time, the clarity, soundstage, and musicality are just excellent.  This is one terrific amp.
   
  I am sure that I am going to try additional rolling of the tubes I have and possibly new tubes, and to see how the LCD 2 sounds on the amp. Right now, though, I am just going to listen to music.


----------



## purrin

There is one thing I want to address here, and I mean this in the kindest possible way, because I have been guilty of this too: _there comes a time when it is better to listen to music rather than tubes_. I am making this statement more toward prospective owners of the Super 7 and also to those who have asked me as to what tubes to run. The fact is, this amp sounds wonderful (and neutral with deep bass extension) with the stock set of tubes provided by Craig. And if anyone wanted to so some tweaking, I would start with the driver (there's a lot to choose from.) It's my attention to allay any fears that folks interested in this amp might see all this as extra complexity with tube rolling as a necessity. It's not.
   
  Finally, while I would be more than happy to sit and chat all day about tubes, it would rather be pointless because your source, your headphones, and personal preferences play a large part. Also, if you do not have an actual reference (that is own the amp with stock set), we would be working rather blindly. There's a excellent 6SN7 guide posted here on HF, and I would recommend this as a place to start with the driver tube.


----------



## CEE TEE

As far as a process for rolling/getting to know what this amp can do:
   
  At the meet, the *production* Super 7 with the stock Tung Sols was _a lot_ better than the *prototype* but I had already purchased many other tubes.  So I didn't get the tube package.
   
  I'm thinking about getting 7 reissue Tung Sols now though.  Then I'd have a "baseline" whenever I want and can easily isolate how different output tubes (or just the driver tubes) sound.
   
  Putting 6 reissue TS tubes in there and <only> rolling the driver tube simplifies things just like the Apex Peak does.
   
  I could see how very "general" tube info (such as "brighter" or "stronger bass", etc.) could be a bit helpful- but more of a starting point.
   
   
  Got a combo I am having fun with now...just listening and trying to get to sleep at a reasonable hour these days.


----------



## Anaxilus

I have 4 you can have.  I think between me and purrin we might have 6 lying around somewhere.  I started from the beginning since the amp was improved w/ new Tung-sols and the EH versions.  They didn't stay in very long so you're welcome to them.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Perfect!  Thanks, guys...I'll take it offline.  Will be fun to come down and compare tube combos later.


----------



## Rob N

Should get my Super 7 tomorrow


----------



## Zebra

If anyone receives a set of tubes they did not order, please PM me.  Thank you.


----------



## Rob N

Anyone have any hum when using the Super 7 with Grados?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rob n said:


> Anyone have any hum when using the Super 7 with Grados?


 


  Not for me.  Zero hum w/ the SA5000 and HP1000.  Only hum is when I disconnect the source.


----------



## redwarrior191

to purrin / anax / those who has got their S7.. how would you compare it to a dynalo (in my case a GLite) or a CK2iii?? any of you guys has heard both or all of them??


----------



## santacore

Quote: 





rob n said:


> Anyone have any hum when using the Super 7 with Grados?


 


  I haven't tried Grado's, but have zero hum. Check that your tube are all solid, that is most likely your hum source.
   
   
  I'm still loving this amp. After a small tube change, my HD800's, which I haven't used in a year or so, are sounding great.


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote:


redwarrior191 said:


> to purrin / anax / those who has got their S7.. how would you compare it to a dynalo (in my case a GLite) or a CK2iii?? any of you guys has heard both or all of them??


 
   
  [size=9pt]The Gilmore Lite takes a bit of the edge off of the Benchmark DAC1 for my HD 800.  Not a bad pairing, not particularly exciting...  I do love the build quality and the small footprint on a desk.  I have @shipsupt’s Gilmore Lite with Dedicated Power Supply on "long loan" and wanted to buy it.  Thought it could also make a good transportable (without bringing the Dedicated Power Supply).[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]But, after hearing what the great tube amps can do for the 800- I had to get a tube amp.  (Even though an Eddie Current or Apex Peak is 4x the cost of a G’Lite.)  The flexibility and presentation (expanded soundstage, FR tuning) was enough to make me decide to skip going down an amp “upgrade path”.  [/size]
   
_[size=9pt]Pre-order Super 7 pricing and @shipsupt not wanting to sell his G’Lite helped too![/size]_
   
  [size=9pt]I'm starting to get to know my tubes and @purrin was right about "tube EQ" in the Super 7...very cool.[/size]


----------



## ctemkin

Quote: 





rob n said:


> Anyone have any hum when using the Super 7 with Grados?


 

 I don't have Grados, but last night I tried the S7 with UE11s, which would disclose hum if anything would.  There was a little crackling sound in one channel that was not affected by the volume control position and, fortunately, disappeared after the amp had been on about 10 minutes.  With no source input, I could hear a very slight hissing sound when the amp was totally cranked up; had there been source input, my ears would have been bleeding well before that point.  So no audible hum.
   
  I am having a great time with this amp and the HD800s.  In addition to many other things it does wonderfully, it is great with vocals.  For example, I was listening to a CD of Ella Fitzgerald called Pure Ella where she sings a number of Gershwin songs and then a number of show tunes.  I forget, maybe all the pieces had just a piano accompanying her.  Her voice came through with amazing realism; it was just as if she were in the same room with me.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





ctemkin said:


> I don't have Grados, but last night I tried the S7 with UE11s, which would disclose hum if anything would.  There was a little crackling sound in one channel that was not affected by the volume control position and, fortunately, disappeared after the amp had been on about 10 minutes.  With no source input, I could hear a very slight hissing sound when the amp was totally cranked up; had there been source input, my ears would have been bleeding well before that point.  So no audible hum.
> 
> I am having a great time with this amp and the HD800s.  In addition to many other things it does wonderfully, it is great with vocals.  For example, I was listening to a CD of Ella Fitzgerald called Pure Ella where she sings a number of Gershwin songs and then a number of show tunes.  I forget, maybe all the pieces had just a piano accompanying her.  Her voice came through with amazing realism; it was just as if she were in the same room with me.


 

 Great to hear.  When you get a chance would you mind comparing w/ the RSA Apache by chance?  
   
  I'll have to post some picks of what I'm currently running one of these days.  Since my PC got killed by lightning I've been down to 4 USB ports.  Too lazy to dive under the desk and swap them.


----------



## ctemkin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Great to hear.  When you get a chance would you mind comparing w/ the RSA Apache by chance?


 


   I'm happy to compare, although unfortunately I am out of town on business and won't be back with the S7 until the weekend.  Did you mean that I should compare with the Apache on that one CD, or more generally?  FWIW, so far it seems to me that both amps are similar in a number of respects:  no background noise, excellent resolution (I don't know if this is the correct word; basically, if you are listening to groups of instruments you can easily focus on one or anothe of them and hear it distinctly, then stop focussing and let the sounds blend; and whether it is cymbals being hit or guitar strings plucked, the sounds are very accurate), and the soundstage is seems wide and the placement of instruments within it precise.  On this last point, I find the LCD2's soundstage to be largely right, left, and center, whereas the HD800s have far left, mid left, left of center, etc.  The biggest difference between the two amps is that the S7 with the tubes I have in it boosts the bass in a clean way and takes just a little of the edge off the treble.  For me that does wonders for the accuracy of the timbre of instruments (including the voice).  Or it may be that other factors are involved that I haven't either identified or described properly, but whatever is going on, the result is that the S7 and the HD800s sound great together, better than the Apache and the HD800s.  In fact, while I am sure that I will at some point start tuberolling again just to see what the differences are, and while there may well be better headphones or amps out there, my reaction is frankly that this combination is just about perfect.


----------



## purrin

Indeed, I did like how the S7 gave the HD800s more weight in the bass and took the edge off the treble without destroying the essence of the headphone.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Indeed, I did like how the S7 gave the HD800s more weight in the bass and took the edge off the treble without destroying the essence of the headphone.


 

 Lol!  Fixed before RD gets to it.  Booyah!


----------



## purrin

I think RD might like the Leben.


----------



## Anaxilus

Thought I would post some pics.  Apologies for the quality, haven't dialed in my phone yet.  First is the new internal wiring of the BA, I know some complained/whined about  a lack of tidiness with the original BA's.  The new S7 and BA have the same standard as seen here.  The second is my flash telling me to either shut it off or dust more often.


----------



## tme110

nice pics.
   
  I'm all for the clean presentation on the S7 but it seems like having to reach over top the amp to turn it on and off each time would get annoying...?


----------



## Anaxilus

Why would you have to reach over the top?  I reach around the right side.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Thought I would post some pics.  Apologies for the quality, haven't dialed in my phone yet.  First is the new internal wiring of the BA, I know some complained/whined about  a lack of tidiness with the original BA's.  The new S7 and BA have the same standard as seen here.  The second is my flash telling me to either shut it off or dust more often.


 


   
  zoomed in.


----------



## Radio_head

anaxilus said:


> First is the new internal wiring of the BA, I know some complained/whined about  a lack of tidiness with the original BA's.  The new S7 and BA have the same standard as seen here.  The second is my flash telling me to either shut it off or dust more often.


 
  I took the top plate of the PS of my new BA and the wiring was nothing like the stuff that the 6Moons guy ranted about.  I guess he did clean it up a bit.  It is funny how as a reviewer Srajan feels compelled to comment on the internals - but doesn't know enough about engineering to do so meaningfully.  So he leaves his comments to how tidy the layout is, as if it always has a direct correlation with how good it sounds.  (Heaven forfend if it's made by Germans - then he has to comment ad nauseam about the cleanliness of the layout and the neatness of the wiring.)


----------



## tme110

yea, but if I had one it would be in a rack and in such a way that getting to the back would require a careful reach.
  
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Why would you have to reach over the top?  I reach around the right side.


----------



## ctemkin

On reading the last few posts, I have had the reaction that I am less interested in how the owners of an S7 turn it on than by whether it is turning them on.  What are your reactions?  Any particular combinations of tubes to recommend with particular headphones?


----------



## santacore

I love this amp. I've been running my HD800's for the last few weeks(after a month or so of LCD-2's) and have really been enjoying them. Previously they sat in a closet for over a year, because I hadn't found an amp combination that I liked. Now, with the change of a few tubes, I have an amp that really plays well with both the HD800's and LCD-2's. Good stuff!!


----------



## purrin

LOL, I could never have imagined you listening to these "weaponized face tweeters" (to borrow a quote from RD) for extended periods.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





ctemkin said:


> On reading the last few posts, I have had the reaction that I am less interested in how the owners of an S7 turn it on than by whether it is turning them on.  What are your reactions?  Any particular combinations of tubes to recommend with particular headphones?


 

 The tubes you see are my HD800 combo atm.  6SN7 GTB Rogers green label driver.  Outputs are 2 x 7N7 RCAs and 2 x GTA Sylvania tall chrome domes, all triangle plates.  2 x NOS 1944 Raytheon 6F8G ladder plates.
   
  Quote: 





purrin said:


> LOL, I could never have imagined you listening to these "weaponized face tweeters" (to borrow a quote from RD)


 

 Not too shabby for a monkey!


----------



## CEE TEE

_*^Anaxilus!!! *_  The Rogers are/were my "secret bass weapon".  Now the cat is out of the bag. 
   
  I was planning on surprising everyone with a "boomy" HD800 w/Benchmark Source(!) to change some minds...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  @ctemkin:  Right now I like (2)taller Rogers green label 6SN7 + (2)Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7 + (2) Russian 1578? + (1) Shugang Treasure for driver.


----------



## Anaxilus

Lol.  Which Rogers do you have?  Mine and purrin's don't sound the same.  He has white print on a black base where mine is green.  His Rogers is actually best w/ the LCD3 IME.


----------



## CEE TEE

anaxilus said:


> Lol.  Which Rogers do you have?  Mine and purrin's don't sound the same.  He has white print on a black base where mine is green.  His Rogers is actually best w/ the LCD3 IME.




I now have 6, I think. Recently got a couple more so I could try 6 in all output tube positions. I'll take a pic later and send, though one Rogers tube is lent out in a loaner swap for the Shugang with blessingx. Some have green and some have silver printing, two are tall and four are short (IIRC)...


----------



## Anaxilus

All the 6SN7s in my pic are tall bottles.


----------



## CEE TEE

Whoops...my current tube set-up is (4)Sylvania Chrome Domes (short bottles), (2) tall bottle Rogers, borrowed Shugang.
   
Enjoying some "guilty" bass (yes, with HD800):
   

   
Here are all my Rogers *minus the short one out on exchange-loan* (4 tall, 4 short):


----------



## Draygonn

Can't wait to get a listen at the LA meet.


----------



## purrin

How you liking that Shuguang? If you like it, I've got an extra one, otherwise off to eBay it goes.


----------



## CEE TEE

So far the Shugang balances my output tube combo- I have been looking for just one Shugang!
   
*purrin:  Send me your PayPal and the amount and I'll shoot you the dough!  Thanks!*
   
  The Shugang was too bright/revealing in the Peak for me (you know I didn't like it at the Bay Area Meet) but the Super 7 has all of the warmth/lows/soundstage from my output tubes so the Shugang "cleans things up a bit".  I can definitely hear when the driver tube is crunchy...need to try and sort my tubes for distortion/noise at some point.  Right now I am relying on quantity.
   
  Other than getting some adapters and trying some 6F8G's, I think I'll have a pretty good stockpile now...meeting up with @jazzfan tonight for a quick bite and a pretty special tube!


----------



## tme110

Is there a different amp for the speaker taps or is the main amp limited for the HP outs or how does that work?  Sorry if this already came up.


----------



## CEE TEE

For the Super 7, the taps are in the back.  For the first run, there was not a switch to turn off the taps if running the headphone-out but I understand there will be on the second run.  (So you can switch between the two, probably.)
   
  Just got another tube but going to wait to try it tomorrow night...oval mica.


----------



## Elysian

When will you have your perfect tube configuration ready by?  I'm waiting to listen to Muse on your Super 7 and HD800!


----------



## Torero

Super7 VS Leben CS300X, any opinion?


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





torero said:


> Super7 VS Leben CS300X, any opinion?


 

 You are not trying to troll bait are you?


----------



## CEE TEE

I've been meaning to call you to get some objective impressions!  I am VERY slow right now in rolling and have been taking my time...maybe I should bring the tubes and amp over and we can roll!
   
  Quote: 





elysian said:


> When will you have your perfect tube configuration ready by?  I'm waiting to listen to Muse on your Super 7 and HD800!


----------



## cacatalysis

I can certify he is not.  Go ahead.
  
  Quote: 





purrin said:


> You are not trying to troll bait are you?


----------



## purrin

The Leben and S7 take different approaches to audio reproduction. The EC amps tend to be neutral, "fast", and extremely resolving without being overly analytical. They also have the most clarity and bass control among all the tube (not counting hybrid) head-amps that I have heard. The only other tube head-amp with similarly good clarity and bass control would be the Apex Pinnacle. I can see a lot of people not liking the EC (or Apex) sound because of this. There's an expectation from many people that tubes should sound romantic and lush. Indeed this is not necessary a bad thing as I feel the Woo WA5 (and the DNA Stratus to a lesser extent) accomplishes the "lush and romantic" thing quite well.
   
  The CS300X definitely takes this lusher approach. Personally I feel it's _overly _warm, gooey, slow, and mushy with poor bass control and at-best mediocre resolution.
   
  So it's hard to compare both. It's kind of Apple and Oranges. Again, just my opinion based on my own preferences and how I like to hear things.


----------



## cacatalysis

I did hear a slow, gooey and mushy sound with poor base control from my Leben driving a HD800.  That is when I put RCA red command 5751/Mullard EL84 combo in Leben.  Everything got worse if the base boast was turned on.  I confirmed that again after our conversation about Leben last time. 
   
  The stock tube combo (sovetk 5751 and EH el84?) is not nearly as bad, actually to my ears not bad at all.  However, when I put in the RCA red command 5751 and amperex EL84 1950s with d-getter, I heard a very detailed sound with punch base, rich mid and open top.  The music has layers and lines, the sound from different instruments in an orchestra can be clearly differentiated.  You can follow the music by each of them.  Other numerous tube combos made from mixing various front end tubes ( 5751s by GE, sylvania BK PL, RCA BK PL, 12ax7s by RCA, amperex and mullard) and various output tubes (6BQ5 from sylvania and GE, EL84 from mullard and amperex, 7189 from amperex) fall somewhere between the aforementioned good and bad extremes.  In general using bass boast is not a good idea in my experience, more bass but less controlled.  A couple of CBS 7729 are coming soon.  We will see if they do better than the red command 5751 paring with amperex EL84.  The Leben is just highly sensitive to tube rolling and probably to other components along the chain as well. 
   
  I compared it to WA22, and Leben is definitely much less lush.  We all hear differently, but to my ears the sound of Leben did change over a big range with tube rolling, from good to bad.  All my comments are directed to HD800 as the headphone.
   
  I am curious whether your "water fall graph" can reveal any difference between two amps driving the same phone.  I have never heard an EC amp.  I would love to have an opportunity.  I should look for an S7 owner in the Boston area.


----------



## MuppetFace

I'm trying to uphold a resolution not to add any more amps to my stockpile, but the Super 7 has been tempting me quite a bit.
   
  Especially given the speaker taps and the thought of pairing the TakeT transformer with it...


----------



## purrin

Take the tube outputs _before _the transformer inside the S7 - at the primaries - and connect to the TakeT. Throw in a cap to block DC and add a resistor for bass response shaping (and current limiting to prevent oh-crap incidents.) That way you don't go through two sets of transformers, which is never good.  
   
  I don't know what the plate voltage is on the output stage on the S7 or what the TakeT expects in terms of voltage. Might want to ask Craig if this is possible. Show him this schematic: http://www.taket.jp/h2/tubeamp.html You may even be able to do this with the ZD with less hassle.


----------



## kiertijai

Can the super7 be modified to use the taket?   that's an interesting finding.
  Please let me know more about the taket . 
  Can we use the DIY T2 or Stax amplifier to drive it or do we need the speaker output post to drive via the TR2?
  What is the termination of the taket H2?  Is it 4 pin XLR or Stax termination?
  Is the sound better than the LCD3 with the supertweeter?


----------



## purrin

Any tube amp with sufficient plate voltage should be able to drive the TakeT. I don't know what the operating points of the TakeT are. A T2 in theory should work, just don't need the 580V bias, though the 1000V swing sounds like overkill though. The TakeT uses 4 pin XLR. Shouldn't be that hard to make an adapter.


----------



## kiertijai

Any tube amp with sufficient plate voltage should be able to drive the TakeT. I don't know what the operating points of the TakeT are. A T2 in theory should work, just don't need the 580V bias, though the 1000V swing sounds like overkill though. The TakeT uses 4 pin XLR. Shouldn't be that hard to make an adapter.
        @Purrin  :  Thanks for the info.   I have been looking for this headphone for a while now.
        I will get more info about the use with DIY T2.  Hope the voltage swing will not do damage to the headphone


----------



## rosgr63

Dear Kiertijai what tubes are you using with your S7?


----------



## purrin

You guys should try transformer rolling on the S7: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-SE-5K-30W-Tube-Output-Transformers-PX-25-UX-50-DA-30-/370123462980?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item562d13d944
   
  Dem Hashimoto's must be purdy good. 5k input should be correct. Use the 8 ohm output.


----------



## Anaxilus

Hmmm....I think they went up in price.


----------



## prtuc2

I was checking EC's page it seems like the Super 7 drop price.


----------



## suikodenii

Any further thoughts/reviews on the Super 7? How does it hold up after honeymoon period is over for the ones that got in with the first batch?
There is a new small batch in the making for shipment in June...

By the way is there a significant difference in output power or quality between the balanced and SE output?
As so far all my hps are currently single ended (Hd800, Lcd2, T1).


----------



## Anaxilus

I'm pleased as punch.  Can't think of an amp out here that can touch it for the price I paid.


----------



## suikodenii

Thanks & glad to hear that 
Too bad that it isn't available at the introductory price that you got any longer.


----------



## santacore

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I'm pleased as punch.  Can't think of an amp out here that can touch it for the price I paid.


 
  Agreed!! Great amp for the dough.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Thanks & glad to hear that
> Too bad that it isn't available at the introductory price that you got any longer.


 
   
  Well, $1650 is a better deal than it was at and doesn't really change my opinion about it.


----------



## suikodenii

santacore said:


> Agreed!! Great amp for the dough.




Thanks! Why did you put yours up for sale if I may ask?
Anything you were not happy with?


----------



## CEE TEE

^After getting used to the expense and enjoying the amp, it's really easy to think- "hmmm, if I add just _another grand_ I could have THAT one..."


----------



## santacore

Absolutely nothing, I just have my sights set on something higher up on the food chain, and don't have room for 2 amps.


----------



## suikodenii

Ok I get it 

I have put down my deposit last week for a Super 7 and now am curious of what I will get .
Budget limit I set myself was what S7 costs w/ stock tubes. I run Hd800, T1 & Lcd2 so a versatile amp was required.
Can anyone add any thoughts on balanced vs. SE with the Super7?
I don't want to spend any more on balanced cables in the short term.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Ok I get it
> I have put down my deposit last week for a Super 7 and now am curious of what I will get .
> Budget limit I set myself was what S7 costs w/ stock tubes. I run Hd800, T1 & Lcd2 so a versatile amp was required.
> Can anyone add any thoughts on balanced vs. SE with the Super7?
> I don't want to spend any more on balanced cables in the short term.


 
  You're perfectly fine w/ SE.  Any perceived difference would be small if any at all depending.  It's running 'technically balanced' to the 4-pin and the 6.3mm.
   
  I would consider finding a deal to buy the 7 tubes somewhere else like Ebay.  Either NOS or the stock new Tung-Sol 6SN7s could be had for less than $20 a piece if you shop right.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNGSOL-REISSUE-6SN7GTB-Tung-sol-6sn7-/400271429188?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d32094e44#ht_675wt_112
   
  I would consider getting 6 or 7 of the above if you want to start w/ a baseline.  Then try looking for single NOS tubes to try out in the driver.  That should get you started.


----------



## ctemkin

Quote: 





santacore said:


> Agreed!! Great amp for the dough.


 
   
  I find myself thinking, Great amp period.  I am extremely pleased with it in combination with the Sylvania and KedRad tubes I got and my HD800.  In fact, and possibly this is only a phase, I seem to have lost interest in upgrading; I am happy enough just listening to music.


----------



## santacore

There is always going to be something better and more expensive to tempt us audio crazies. 
   
  Enjoy what you've got and play some tunes!!!


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





santacore said:


> There is always going to be something better and more expensive to tempt us audio crazies.
> 
> Enjoy what you've got and play some tunes!!!


 
   
  I've been trying to do that after buying another pair of headphones this year, but your Super 7 in the classifieds is of interest.  Trying to hide my wallet somewhere until the temptation subsides.


----------



## santacore

---


----------



## Anaxilus

New Super 7 mk2.


----------



## discretesound

anaxilus said:


> New Super 7 mk2.




Beautiful


----------



## DarknightDK

so what's different with the mk 2?


----------



## tme110

speaker switch


----------



## Anaxilus

And he moved the plate and power light, not to mention the Double C Cores inside for input and output.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> New Super 7 mk2.


 
   
  Working my way through the thread. The more I read, the harder it is to resist. The S7 is a little over budget, but its use as a speaker amp may justify the extra expense. What speakers would match well in the <$1k bracket, for a near field, small room setup? Does the mk2 have more juice than the first units?


----------



## santacore

I believe the speaker taps output 3 watts at 8 ohms, so you're speakers should be extremely efficient. Desktop or very near field listening would be best.


----------



## olor1n

Craig is providing all the right answers in email. Getting closer to pulling the trigger. Just need some guidance on the speaker front. Any particular models I should be reading up on?
   
  edit: at the moment I have Audioengine A2 powered speakers sitting at ear level on a shelf above my desk. I'm a noob when it comes to speakers. The A2s are OK, but they just don't engage me. I'm listening to the LCD-2 rev.2 at the moment and this is the sort of sound I want in a near field setup. Are there small, sensitive near fields that can be made to sing with the Super 7? Or are the speakers taps on the S7 an afterthought? Is wanting something better than A2 level of performance from it and matching speakers just wishful thinking?


----------



## SleepyOne

Apparently there are hyper sensitive speakers that can deal with such low wattage. I am in similar boat and am looking into it now. From what I gather so far you can hook it up to speakers like:
  Audio Note, Zu Audio, Cain & Cain, Klipsch Cornwall, Omega, Tekton, Coincident and others. The only bad news is not sure they are super small. I wonder will Rogers LS3/5A works or not...


----------



## purrin

Probably not. A lot pro type monitors are extremely inefficient. At 3 watts, I'd be looking something 95db+/w/m efficiency for small living rooms, 92db+ for small bedrooms, and 89db+ for desktop setups. A great solution would be bi-amping. Splitting the speaker outputs with one feeding the tweeter and another feeding the line in of a separate power amp for the woofer (with volume control to match the tweeter).


----------



## SleepyOne

Cheers! I guess it will just have to be larger than mini monitor


----------



## CEE TEE

Just want to encourage any "speaker-with-Super-7" talk here...I want to get some speakers now too.  
   
  (I think I'll dig the vinyl more with speakers.)


----------



## kiertijai

I heard that the Electra electrostatic headphone is finished and will be at the Newport meeting
  this weekend , probably with the super7 mkII
  Please share the experience and inform us about the meeting


----------



## purrin

A couple of guys in SoCal will be at T.H.E. SHOW in Newport. I don't know if conditions will be optimal though.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/611077/headroom-hosts-headphone-panel-at-t-h-e-show-newport-beach-ca-june-2-3


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> I heard that the Electra electrostatic headphone is finished and will be at the Newport meeting
> this weekend , probably with the super7 mkII
> Please share the experience and inform us about the meeting


 
   
  Yup, both are done.


----------



## kiertijai

I am very interested in this  electra amplifier  and would also like to know any difference between
  the super7 mkI and mkII.   Please do share your impressions.


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> and would also like to know any difference between
> the super7 mkI and mkII.   Please do share your impressions.


 
  Besides what is listed earlier on this page?


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> I am very interested in this  electra amplifier  and would also like to know any difference between
> the super7 mkI and mkII.   Please do share your impressions.


 
   
  The new S7 has the new C-core transformers which alter the sound a little bit. If you have other EC amps and are used to the EC sound, certain recognizable traits will no longer be there since the output transformers have a very large affect on the amp's sound - even more than tubes. (This is why I also recommend rolling transformers, because it's even more fun.)
   
  The C-cores are less organic sounding. The older EI cores were slightly thicker in the bass and had a little treble bite (I am not implying a negative thing here.) The C-cores have a more neutral textured bass and better detail extraction overall. The highs are brighter, but also smoother. Overall, I feel the new C-cores get out of the way better than the EI-core. I had no issues with it sounding slightly brighter since the presentation was smoother. In any event, the brightness can be tamed with proper tube selection.
   
  Started a new thread for Electra since it's now close to production: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612247/eddie-current-electra-electrostatic-amplifier


----------



## suikodenii

purrin said:


> The new S7 has the new C-core transformers which alter the sound a little bit. If you have other EC amps and are used to the EC sound, certain recognizable traits will no longer be there since the output transformers have a very large affect on the amp's sound - even more than tubes. (This is why I also recommend rolling transformers, because it's even more fun.)
> 
> The C-cores are less organic sounding. The older EI cores were slightly thicker in the bass and had a little treble bite (I am not implying a negative thing here.) The C-cores have a more neutral textured bass and better detail extraction overall. The highs are brighter, but also smoother. Overall, I feel the new C-cores get out of the way better than the EI-core. I had no issues with it sounding slightly brighter since the presentation was smoother. In any event, the brightness can be tamed with proper tube selection.
> 
> Started a new thread for Electra since it's now close to production: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612247/eddie-current-electra-electrostatic-amplifier




Hmm, I don't think I like what I am hearing. I chose to be on this run of the Super 7 as I was looking for an more "organic" sounding amp (instead of e.g the RWA Corvina) to complement the solid state amps that I already have...


----------



## Anaxilus

You could ask Craig for some EI cores if he has some left.  The new transformers don't sound like digitally harsh SS just to be clear.  Quite the opposite.  Completely smooth and grain free.  If not organic in texture, think liquid instead.


----------



## suikodenii

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> You could ask Craig for some EI cores if he has some left.  The new transformers don't sound like digitally harsh SS just to be clear.  Quite the opposite.  Completely smooth and grain free.  If not organic in texture, think liquid instead.


 

 Thanks! Tough choice being far away from any chance to listen to either version...
  I will wait for impressions from the T.H.E Show where I understand the Mk2 will be present this weekend.
  It sounds to me like the Mk2 might mate well with the LCD-2 rev1 I have but would require more tube rolling to go with the HD800.... Any recommendations for only swapping the driver tube to accomplish that?
  Do you happen to know which phones will be setup for the S7 at the show?


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


>


 
   
_Really_ loving the Eddie Current logo on the front of the amp. I'm jealous of all you lucky folks getting in on the second run.
   
   
  I bought Santacore's amp about 2 weeks back, and I don't have any buyer's remorse whatsoever (other than a handful of sleepless nights staying up listening to 3am). I've been enjoying re-discovering my collection. The increase in resolution, refinement in spatial information and richness in inner-detail is a serious step above my previous amp. 
   
  Haven't done any tube rolling yet, since I'm mainly trying to live with the amp for a while and get used to the sound. I have tried swapping driver tubes between the stock Tung Sol and a National Union one that Santacore was nice enough to include. I was surprised at how much the sound changed by just swapping the driver tube. I'm almost afraid to dive into the depths of tinker-dom that's ahead with rolling the output tubes as well. Should be fun.


----------



## santacore

I'm having a bit of sellers remorse, but I'm truly glad you're enjoying the amp. It's a wonderful amp that responds to tube rolling and pairs well with many headphones. Enjoy!!!


----------



## suikodenii

Hi, did anyone have the chance to listen to the Super 7 MK2 at the T.H.E Show and can post some impressions?
  Thanks!


----------



## purrin

Production c-cores weren't in it yet.


----------



## suikodenii

bummer 
  Looks like I have to wait for mine to be delivered to get any more impressions.
  By the way which transfomer was in the Super 7 at the meet?
  Thanks again!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> bummer
> Looks like I have to wait for mine to be delivered to get any more impressions.
> By the way which transfomer was in the Super 7 at the meet?
> Thanks again!


 
   
  The first gen Electraprint EI cores.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Is Super 7 a step above Apex Peak ?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





audio-omega said:


> Is Super 7 a step above Apex Peak ?


 
   
  I totally prefer it.  I'll let Purrin chime in since he spent more time w/ the Peak than myself.


----------



## purrin

The Peak is definitely more analytical. It doesn't soften the edges. If anything it has a tendency to turn over every stone - to extract every detail - no matter the tube. I sold the Peak and got the BA instead when I got the HD800s. I couldn't stand the HE-6 with the Peak. I loved the LCD2r1 (the r1 was the one I had) with the Peak. I think I would love the LCD3 with the Peak as well. The Peak is very clear sounding. Bass control is amazing. Overall balance is neutral. Some have said bright, which I can't disagree compared to amps that sound warmer or more laid back.
   
  The Super 7 is not as crystal clear sounding as the Peak. Bass is just a hair not as tight. It is more explosive than the Peak in terms of macro-dynamics. The presentation is not analytical, but it renders plankton just as well as the Peak. Just that every time you try to concentrate on the micro-detail, the S7 lures you back into listening to the music. With the right selection of tubes, you can also take the edge off of the brighter headphones. Overall balance and some sonic characteristics can be changed with tube selection. For example, KenRads throughout will give you a little bit of that Peak sound. It's actually a lot of fun to roll tubes on the S7.
   
  This is just my opinion based on my preferences. I know many others who would prefer the Peak, even with HD800s or HE-6s.


----------



## davidross

So no one has heard the S7 with the C-core transformer and upgraded caps yet, is that right?
   
  Also, is it reasonable to think that the 6SN7 as an output tube in a well-executed circuit (as the S7 no doubt is) is capable of producing images with the palpability of the 2A3?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





davidross said:


> So no one has heard the S7 with the C-core transformer and upgraded caps yet, is that right?


 
  No that's wrong.  Thought we posted some impressions of an A/B w/ the prototype.
   
  Most of us have the upgraded cap too which I'm sure was commented on as well.
   
  Palpable imaging is one of my favorite aspects of the S7.  Both the BA and S7 use 6SN7s, some 2A3's sound a little soft around the edges to me but that could be cheap Chinese tubes.  Assuming we mean the same thing by palpable imaging as in a holographic, realistic rendering in a specified position.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





davidross said:


> So no one has heard the S7 with the C-core transformer and upgraded caps yet, is that right?
> 
> Also, is it reasonable to think that the 6SN7 as an output tube in a well-executed circuit (as the S7 no doubt is) is capable of producing images with the palpability of the 2A3?


 
   
  The S7 is very precise in terms of localizing instruments left to right. But if you are referring to the openness, depth, layering, and special characteristics of the direct heated triodes such as the 2A3, the answer is likely no.


----------



## davidross

I don't think those impressions are in this thread. Could you point me to them, please? Also, we do mean the same thing by palpable imaging and I'm very glad to hear that the S7 can accomplish it.


----------



## purrin

C-core w/ cap upgrade impressions.Both of us were literally transformer rolling with the same source and headphones.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/579039/review-and-comparison-eddie-current-balancing-act-and-super-7/330#post_8419641
http://www.head-fi.org/t/579039/review-and-comparison-eddie-current-balancing-act-and-super-7/330#post_8421778


----------



## Anaxilus

Yeah, there were cap impressions somewhere earlier from the Bay area meet time frame as well.  No reason not to get it really unless clarity is a bad thing.


----------



## davidross

Thanks very much. It sounds like the gap between the S7 and BA or 2A3 may have narrowed further. That's also good news.


----------



## prtuc2

Today I received my Super 7, however I won't able to give you guys any impressions any time soon due to missing power cords and tubes.  But here are some photos to show you guys.


----------



## SleepyOne

Congratulation!
   
  re: power cord - I am guessing any IEC power cord would be ok.


----------



## JMcMasterJ

Nice! Mine should get here this week as well (w/ tubes).


----------



## prtuc2

Just want to chime in with some initial impressions with this amp, so far only has about 6hrs of usage so might not be at its best.
   
  Setup:
  PC USB > HRT Music Streamer II+ > EC Super 7 w/Tung-sol 6SN7 GTB tubes > Sennheiser HD650 w/4pin XLR balanced cable
   
  One of the most noticeable sound signature of the S7 is string instruments are very good, it has a nice weight to it.
  Bass is another characteristics of this amp very good control of bass slam doesn't feels distort.
  I think it is a faster dynamic amp than my Audio-gd ROC amp (SS).
  S7 also tame some of the treble spike in my recording, so I able to enjoy my music longer.
  Overall, I would say S7 is fast, great bass, smooth and has good instrument body weight amp.
   
  I still think either the tube or my source isn't giving me the best of the amp, so I will update in the future if I acquired any new DAC.
   
  Thanks for reading.


----------



## purrin

Cheapest immediately upgrade for ~$30 on eBay taking into account your headphones. Change just the driver tube to a Sylvania chrome top 6SN7GTB.


----------



## prtuc2

Something like this purrin? Just that sometimes they have different color text so not sure which is a better match for my setup.


----------



## purrin

Just PM'd you. Don't want to reveal the true secrets out in the open.


----------



## discretesound

Just received the amp today. Is it normal for the amp to buzz?


----------



## prtuc2

Mine is very quiet, did you check the tubes to see if they are working properly?


----------



## SleepyOne

discretesound - do you mean the transformer hums?


----------



## discretesound

sleepyone said:


> discretesound - do you mean the transformer hums?




Im not to sure. But the hum comes from the amp itself and the longer it runs the louder it gets.


----------



## discretesound

prtuc2 said:


> Mine is very quiet, did you check the tubes to see if they are working properly?




I've tried reconfigure the tubes and change some of the tubes and the outcome still the same


----------



## SleepyOne

Likely the transformers - check your main voltage (using small electric meter), if it is too low or too high it can cause the transformer to make the buzzing sound. My DAC too buzz depending on time of day (voltage veries). Best give Craig an email to double check nothing amiss.


----------



## Anathallo

Mine hums as well - it's subtle, but definitely audible.  I was going to shoot Craig an e-mail if it continues, or if it is a voltage issue coming out of the mains.


----------



## discretesound

I send my amp back to craig so he can do all the check. I measured my voltage and it doesn't seem to fluctuate much. The hum gets pretty loud after a while and it tends to get very annoying.


----------



## LindseyTopper

I like to use powered "near-field" speakers.  I like the Dynaudio which are about $1,300.00 for the pair.  If I was limited to $1,000.00 or less, I would get the NHT Mini 100.  They are not being produced anymore.  You could probably get them for under $600.00 and even less used.
   
  Lastly, you could get Audio Engine speakers which could be had for under $500.00 per pair.  The NHT speakers are really great.  The Audio Engines are incredibly popular.  They look good and sound good.  The best in this group are the Dynaudio's, but you pay for it.


----------



## tme110

I finally got to see (and hear) a S7 a week or so ago.  Very nice.  Even after looking at all the pictures over and over, it was much larger than I was thinking and man was it heavy!  Nice amp.  too bad it was at a meet though so I couldn't do any real listening with it.


----------



## ctemkin

tme110's posting reminded me that I hadn't posted some observations of my own.  It was my S7 he saw and listened to, and it was nice meeting him and the others at the DC area meet.
   
  Some of the people there had brought an HE-6 and and AKG1000, neither of which I had ever listened to previously.  We tried them both on the S7 out of the speaker terminals.  I listened to each briefly. 
   
  I thought that the HE-6 sounded excellent; I did not pick up on any of the flaws, such as a shrill treble, that others have said occur when this headphone is underpowered.  Of course this may have been in part because the tube set I have was designed to bring out the bass and take the treble down a notch on my HD800s.  The owner of the HE-6 said that he liked the sound, but did not think that volume through the S7 was sufficient.  He obviously likes to listen a lot louder than I do. 
   
  I wasn't that keen on the AKG1000, but perhaps that was because the listening experience is different with speakers that distance from your ears, and I am not sure that I had them adjusted optimally. 
   
  I also got to hear stats for the first time, and they were not too shabby.  Justin was there and brought 3 BHSEs, along with, I believe, one 007 and two 009s!  I thought they were great.  I got to listen to Grumiaux's Tchaikovsky's violin concerto (which I brought) and to Di Meola and others in Friday Night in San Francisco (which Justin brought).  Great air, great tone of the instruments, absolute quiet background.  I unfortunately did not have an opportunity to A/B the stats with my HD800 on the S7, because whichever I listened to, there was always someone using the other.  I have to admit that I am very intrigued by the stats, and I would like to follow up further.  However, while there may indeed be sonic differences that I could easily pick up on if I listened to one phone and amp and then the other combination immediately afterwards, each playing the same passage, I did not get the impression that there were major sonic differences or that there was a huge difference in how enjoyable it was to listen to one versus the other.  I think that is an excellent showing for the S7.


----------



## kiertijai

@ctemkin  My S7 is coming and I would like to know the tubes that you are using for the HD800
  any recommendations of the tubes for LCD3 and other?
  Is it also good for the high sensitive phones like Grado and Fostex TH900?


----------



## tme110

I can say that I loved the S7 and his tubes with my Grados.  I liked it with my grados better than I liked it with my lcd-2 but I'm sure that was the tubes.


----------



## ctemkin

kiertijai,
   
  For the driver and four output tubes I am using Sylvanias that are marked JAN-CHS-6SN7W in green lettering on a black plastic base.  The bottom mica is below the top of the base.  The remaining two output tubes are KEN-RADs that are marked JAN-CKR-6SN7GT in sort of gold lettering on a black base.  They have staggered plates.  I first tried all Sylvanias, but using the two KEN-RADs added a little more bass to the HD800s ( even with all Sylvanias, the bass was very considerably improved in comparison with the Apache) and took a little edge off the treble.  I found this combination to be just what I wanted, and so I didn't feel the need to try other tubes.  I also have not gotten around to finding a set of tubes that will work well with the LCD-2.  I like the LCD-2 better on the Apache than on the S7 with my current set of tubes, which is not to say that the right set of tubes would't change this.  If I were to get tubes for the S7 for the LCD-2, it would be to boost the treble (it is rev 1) and in effect make it sound more like an HD800, but since I have an HD800, and since I doubt that different tubes would provide the LCD-2 with the HD800's soundstage, I haven't seen the point in continued experimentation.  Much earlier in this thread, as I recall, Anaxilus and others have made specific recommendations for LCD-2 and maybe other phones.
   
  Best of luck.
   
  ctemkin


----------



## kiertijai

@ctemkin   thanks so much for your valuable suggestions.
      I may not have all those tubes but I do have similar tubes.  I think I will try the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
  and KenRad VT231 for the HD800 as you suggested, I think they should be similar except the bass may be
  a little more.  For the LCD2 I think I will use the Tungsol 6SU7GTY or the Tungsol BGRP to improve the treble,
  any suggestions would be much appreciated.


----------



## minimus

I have done a fair amount of tube rolling in my Super 7 to dial in the LCD-2s. I highly recommend using a 6F8G with an adaptor (readily available on eBay) in the front position. National Union, Raytheon, RCA all sound very good. My top pick is the National Union. I have tried Tung Sol round plates, but don't like that tube as much as the others, which are much cheaper than Tung Sol. By the way, Craig "blessed" the 6F8G when I asked him for tube recommendations...and I think he uses the LCD-2s to voice his amps.

In the other positions, I like RCA 6SN7s better than Sylvania. The RCA's seem to have better bass and transparency. That said, rolling the 6 output tubes has much less effect on SQ than rolling the front position input tube.


----------



## LindseyTopper

Try using Dynaudio or NHT mini-moo powered speakers.  I love the Dynaudios and am even considering another pair.  They have dual 50 watt amps in each speaker cabinet for woofer and tweeter.  I currently use a Peachtree I-Decco to regulate the volume out of the preamp and get the use of a very cost effective DAC.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





minimus said:


> That said, rolling the 6 output tubes has much less effect on SQ than rolling the front position input tube.


 
   
  That's correct.  Think of the three tubes per channel as one big 6SN7.  Each tube change will only effect the output stage to a minimal degree.  If the input tube is the engine, think of the output tubes as the intake, headers, exhaust, etc.


----------



## Questhate

This thread dropping to the 6th page is a travesty. Have all the S7 owners quit Head-Fi after being so smitten with their rigs now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Still loving my S7, and find that I'm having a hard time pulling myself away from my rig once I get going. I've definitely stayed up way past my bed time more often than I'd like. My favorite pairing is with my HD800, but for the past two weeks I've been listening almost exclusively with my Magnums. My next project is finding brighter, leaner tubes to pair with my LCD2s. 
   
  One of the shortcomings that seem to turn people off of Grados is the lack of soundstage. If you have too many instruments on a track, they tend to sound stacked on top of each other. The S7 throws such a large soundstage, with such good positional cues that it makes up for the lack of soundstage size with Grados. Things are precisely placed within a smaller, more intimate setting. The solid, punchy bass the amp pumps out is great at reinforcing the good PRaT and forwardness of Grados too. 
   
  What tubes are people using on their rigs right now?


----------



## CEE TEE

_*Edited:*  Double Post..._


----------



## CEE TEE

_Took some time and tube rolling to feel like I have the range of control and sound that I am looking for..._
   
I really dig the amp and for a dynamic amp, I think it is a great blend of: 

 flexibility (tube combos, capacitors)
 value for a tube-rolling amp (price of amp and price/availability of 68FG,7N7, 6SN7 NOS/new)
 high-end performance for amp + supply of tubes for under 2K
 small footprint (internal power supply)
 *value in quality transformers *and bullet-proof casing
 Craig's circuit design/tuning style that has a sound/presentation I enjoy
   
Things that it lacks?:

 ability to be customized for a large variety of expensive tubes in the way the BA can (300B, PX4, AD1, etc.)
 high-frequency A/C heaters (like the BA)
 not as quiet as the BA with sensitive iems (UERM can sound AMAZING on some tube amps)
 separate power supply (if you desire that)
 design/color that matches your silver apple computer (looks better in person, but "cool" in an "industrial" way)
 a marketing campaign & large distribution
   
  I'll keep my eyes and ears open, but for dynamic phones- seems to me that it would take an amp/tubes combo costing twice as much to really beat it.* I'm still happy!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
   
   
*As for current tube combos,* I was surprised to find that I like the more resolving/linear Shugang Treasure as a more transparent driver to balance out vintage Rogers 6SN7 as warmer/softer output tubes.  Then I can roll in some new Electro Harmonix 6SN7 output tubes to clean/tighten up, and increase upper mids to taste.
   
  I'm sure that over time and with different combos of phones and recordings- I'll roll in the various Sylvania 6SN7's, RCA/Tung Sol 7N7s, Tung Sol BGRP, russian tubes I have to find other sounds and presentations.
   
  Heck, looks like we'll even be having a *Bay Area Super 7* _*capacitor-rolling party in December*!__  _


----------



## purrin

Yup. Swap out the Solens in the interstage and the 10uF 'lytics in the feedback loop. Significant improvements. Stay tuned for details.


----------



## minimus

I am also surprised the Super 7 gets so little attention on Head-Fi.  I suppose the explanation is that the amp is fairly expensive compared to some other tube amps, and Craig doesn't call too much attention to it on his site.  That's understandable, considering that the Balancing Act sells for more than twice the price of the Super 7.
   
  I have owned a Luxman P-1u and a Woo WA22, both of which are considered to be close to top of the line from their manufacturers, and the Super 7 crushes both of those amps in virtually every respect.  I have also owned a DNA Sonett, which is laughable compared to the Super 7.
   
  What I like so much about the Super 7 is that it is the first amp that I think comes close to the sound of my Singlepower Extreme, an amp that I loved but that had notoriously bad build quality.  With the right tubes, the Super 7 sounds seductive/enveloping, but also has the best bass of any amp I have owned.  Another nice feature of the amp is that the sound signature can be tailored to a greater degree than for other tube amps via tube rolling.
   
  I recently bought six RCA 6SN7s from Vintage Tube Services to use as output tubes.  Andy at Vintage Tube Services recommends the RCAs if you are looking for an airy, warmer sound.  He says the Sylvanias are more transparent and somewhat less forgiving.  I tend to agree with that assessment.  The RCAs are really a great sounding output tube in this amp.
   
  Then, I tailor the sound signature using various 6F8Gs in the input position.  The National Union 6F8G is the warmest sounding tube, although it tends to roll off the lower frequencies a bit.  (This is not a problem with the Super 7, since the amp already has copious amounts of high quality bass).  The BGRP Tung Sol 6F8G is probably the most linear, transparent sounding input tube, with a hint of warmth and great detail.
   
  I also played around a bit with power cords and am using a Triode Wire Labs "Ten Plus" on the amp, and like what that cord does to the sound.  For some reason, the amp just seems quieter.  I primarily use JH16 IEM's with the amp, and find the amp to be pretty darn quiet with that power cord.  I was previously using either an Audio Art or Black Sands power cord, and was hearing more tube hiss with those cords.
   
  I have a feeling if Woo released this amp at the same price point, everybody would be selling their WA6's and WA22's to buy this amp.  My WA22 has been gathering dust for the last six months, as I feel the Super 7 beats it in every regard by a significant margin, yet costs less than the WA22.


----------



## acantor

Can someone tell me how to use the 6f8g adapter. I just ordered one, and I am not sure what the tail is for.
Thanks!


----------



## Radio_head

You just put the white cap (on the end of the tail) on top of the tube.


----------



## SleepyOne

An example:


----------



## acantor

Many thanks!


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Ok I need to take a cold shower now but it looks like I may be joining this bus, at least for a little while to satisfy my curiosity.  Looks like the one I'm getting is mk2 with double c core transformers.  Fools errand, whenever someone says that amp X sounds really good with HD800 it perks my ears, especially if they say it can best a Luxman p-1/u.  Was surprised when I didn't like the hd800 with the Equilibrato earlier this year.  I still have yet to find something that clearly outshines the Zana Deux, but it sounds to me like the s7 and ZD are more different than alike. 
   
  I'd like to try the tung sol 6f8g vt-99 tube with adapter but looks like they are only sold in pairs for stupid money.  Will have to wait out the FS/T forum I suppose.
   
  What are the exact steps to transformer roll and how much money are we talking to experiment?  I'm guessing a multimeter, screwdriver, and solder are necessary in the least!


----------



## SleepyOne

I got my single adapter from Glenn (2359glenn). You could also try the one in ebay too, don't know any good or not but here is the link:  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-tube-socket-convert-adapter-8pin-to-8pin-6C8G-to-6SL7-/320960114724?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4abab6b024


----------



## minimus

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Fools errand, whenever someone says that amp X sounds really good with HD800 it perks my ears, especially if they say it can best a Luxman p-1/u.  Was surprised when I didn't like the hd800 with the Equilibrato earlier this year.  I still have yet to find something that clearly outshines the Zana Deux, but it sounds to me like the s7 and ZD are more different than alike.
> 
> I'd like to try the tung sol 6f8g vt-99 tube with adapter but looks like they are only sold in pairs for stupid money.  Will have to wait out the FS/T forum I suppose.


 
   
  Mr. Sneis,  I don't own the HD800s, so have never heard them with either the Super 7 or the Luxman p-1u.  I do know that Craig recommended the HD800s as having really good synergy with the Super 7, so that might be reassuring.
   
  Regarding the Tung Sol 6F8Gs, I have managed to score about three -- one from Skylab and a pair from eBay -- at "reasonable prices" (about $150 total for three tubes).  That said, I don't think the Tung Sol is essential for this amp. The Tung Sol really improves the overall sound of the WA22, for example, but just slightly changes the "flavor" of the Super 7.  Come to think of it, I feel that I got a step order improvement when I put 6 good NOS RCA 6SN7s in the output positions.  Rolling different 6F8Gs has a more incremental effect on the sound signature -- each changing the "flavor" of the soudn, with none wiping the floor with the others.  The NU is airy and probably the warmest.  The RCA also adds warmth and a lot of bass slam, but doesn't have quite as much upper frequency extension as the other 6F8Gs.  Raytheons sound a lot like the NUs.  The Tung Sols seem dead neutral and probably most linear.  I find myself rolling the input tube depending on my mood and the music.  I am probably only using the Tung Sol about 25% of the time -- in other words, I am using other tubes more than I use the highly vaunted Tung Sol.  In short, you won't miss all that much if you just stick with some of the less expensive 6F8Gs and forego the Tung Sol.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Well the s7 should be coming with 7 RCA 6sn7's so there's a start!


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Amp arrived yesterday and have been listening to it for a bit now.  The thing is a lot bigger and heavier than pictures will have you believe.  Reminds me of the power supply for the Zana Deux just supersized.  Finding a great tube combo is a little tougher than I anticipated, eBay is nasty business.  So far I have found one combo to work really well with RS-1, nothing for LCD-2.  I am also noticing the transformer noise mentioned earlier.  I e-mailed Craig about it.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I am pretty sure the transformer that's making noise is noisy by design, it's installed very tight as far as I can tell, and the hose clamp securing it around the chassis appears to be glued to the transformer and very tight as well. 
   
  I've settled on a pretty decent set of tubes for now.  Driver: Sylvania 6sn7gta (parallel black plates), Outputs: 2x Raytheon 6n7gta (yellow label), 4x RCA 6sn7. Sounds pretty good with lcd-2 and rs-1.  I am not too well versed in tubes but I found out that there are 2 different kinds of Sylvania 6sn7gta's; one has parallel plates with 3 holes, the other offset plates with 5 holes.  I like the parallel plates because they sound thicker to my ears but many on the interwebs have stated they prefer the newer style offset plates tubes.  Still waiting on a tube adapter to go to 6f8g.


----------



## Radio_head

If you just need one adapter for the input tube let me know, I've got a spare for my BA that I never use.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

That's basically what I need


----------



## Radio_head

Cool, I'll check if I can find mine and send it out to you.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Regarding this transformer noise, after corresponding with Craig he basically recommended that I shim the transformer (in more confusing terminology).  The clamps holding the transformers in place are held in place with glue so tightening the worm clamp won't really work.
   
   
  Quote: 





> The clamp that goes around the power transformer to hold the cores tight can come loose in shipping. You need to tighten up the clamp, you can use a small wooded wedge, or small screw driver blade between the clam, and transformer core. You can’t tighten the clamp with it’s screw because it is glued with varnish. To access the transformer remove the side covers, they only go back on in one direction. Then remove the three sets of wires going to the circuit board on the amps right side. Next take out the four top screws and set the top on the left side of the amp. This will fully expose the power transformer. Pound a small screw driver in as a wedge, or find a piece of hard wood. Be sure to plug the three sets of color coded wires back on the proper connectors. You can test your repair before putting the side covers back on by powering the amp up to see if the transformer is quiet.


 
   
  So this is what I did; went to local hardware store and purchased some shims for $1.50, cut off a few inches from the tip of one shim, knocked it in between the worm clamp and metal plate on one side of the main power transformer at the back of the amp.  To get there you have to remove the sides and top of the amp.  By hand you can remove the three upside down lines on the right side of the amp's pcb and then tuck the front panel to the left (or vice-versa). I was quite surprised at how much it dampened the noise, the clamps even appeared very tight from the start from visual inspection.
   
  I think Patrick82 would be proud of the audiophile quality wood wedge I used.


----------



## purrin

Damnit Craig!


----------



## SleepyOne

Wow you are good! I am very glad I don't have hum problem with my power supply!


----------



## econparanoia

Quote: 





audiosceptic said:


> I bought a BA from Craig in June of 2010 with the PX4/300B setup and a RK50 volume pot. When I first received it the volume control was messed up and I had a bad hum on one channel. I sent it back to Craig and he repaired it stating that a wire had come loose. In June of this year my BA developed a problem with the Line\Can selector switch where the right channel went out whenever you moved the selector switch. Eventually the right channel went out altogether. I sent the BA back to Craig a second time and decided to sell it.
> 
> While I thought the BA sounded great I was disappointed with the repairs needed and lost confidence in the reliability of the product.
> 
> Just my experience since you stated you wanted to hear from others.


 
  Usually the units sent for test are built with extra care. The manufacturer might just get sloppy afterwards. It is a bit disappointed to see that there is almost no response to audiosceptic's post. Anyway, Mr. [size=small]Uthus[/size] may want to pay more attention on quality control.


----------



## Radio_head

Mr. Uthus changed some things since 2010 - to my understanding the wiring is not being done by the same people and issues are few and far between.  Craig always fixes these things for free if theres a problem (not stemming from negligence.)


----------



## purrin

He doesn't frequent the HF forums either, so you won't see any official statement or announcements here.


----------



## Hun7er

There a comparison between Super 7 and Zana Deux ?


----------



## Ony38

Any advice for high efficiency bookshelf speakers with the Super 7?


----------



## Ony38

Someone try PSVANE CV181-TⅡtubes with a Super 7? http://en.psvane.com/?Product/cv181t2/


----------



## SebastianL

mr.sneis said:


> Regarding this transformer noise, after corresponding with Craig he basically recommended that I shim the transformer (in more confusing terminology). The clamps holding the transformers in place are held in place with glue so tightening the worm clamp won't really work.
> 
> So this is what I did; went to local hardware store and purchased some shims for $1.50, cut off a few inches from the tip of one shim, knocked it in between the worm clamp and metal plate on one side of the main power transformer at the back of the amp. To get there you have to remove the sides and top of the amp. By hand you can remove the three upside down lines on the right side of the amp's pcb and then tuck the front panel to the left (or vice-versa). I was quite surprised at how much it dampened the noise, the clamps even appeared very tight from the start from visual inspection.




So did the noise disappear altogether or is there still some detectable noise left?


----------



## SebastianL

purrin said:


> Yup. Swap out the Solens in the interstage and the 10uF 'lytics in the feedback loop. Significant improvements. Stay tuned for details.




Did you ever post your experiments with swapping capacitors in the S7?


----------



## JWahl

Not to dig up too old of a thread I have had the Super 7 for about 2 full days now and couldn't be happier.  S/N 23 here.  Moved from a Burson Soloist, which although I feel is a great value in single ended solid state, the Super 7 is turning out to be a larger step up than I had expected.  I will admit though, I'm new to "serious" tubes amps.  I've owned a Lyr before but was never a big fan.  And I preferred the Soloist the even the WA22 when comparing at a meet with the HD800 I had at the time.  Though I didn't really have enough time with it or my own source and music to test with.
  
 The biggest differences I notice in comparison to the Soloist is the startling dynamic contrasts, more holographic imaging, and very realistic instrumental textures. And this is all just with an AKG K712.  Currently using an Anedio D1 as a Source.  I'm also using a Sylvania 6SN7 GTA Chrome Dome as driver tube, a pair of Raytheon 6SN7 GTA, a pair of ElectroHarmonix 6SN7EH, and a pair of RCA Silver Label 6SN7.  Hoping to eventually get a hold of some Ken-Rad VT231's and maybe some 7N7's  in the future.  Still doing my research though.  Of course my next order of business will be upgrading my headphones, and then maybe source down the road.  But right now I'm just enjoying the music.  It really drives the crap out of the K712 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  I'd like to thank Purrin and the crew for their insight and impressions.  I've been eyeing this for a while thinking it would be up my alley based on description I couldn't be more happy.  My only concern was that a pure tube amp would only be suitable with certain music, but I can happily report that is not the case here. I can just as well play Hip-Hop, EDM, and Heavy Rock as Classical and Jazz with equal enjoyment.  And also, I notice no noise, besides some slight microphonics on contact with amp with no music playing.  Very black background otherwise. Of course take my impressions with an anti-hype grain of salt since I'm still in the Honeymoon phase.  Hopefully it stays a long one though.
  
 Later on next month at a meet I'm organizing, I'll get a chance to compare it to a vintage Moth 2A3.  Obviously I expect a different a different sound but it will be interesting how much of the sound, if any, is shared.  Another member and meet veteran who has listen to the Moth in the past at previous meets says it's the best amp he has heard hands down.
  
 EDIT: Some investigation has revealed my amp originally belonged to Mr. Sneis meaning it's already shimmed up, hence no transformer noise.


----------



## purrin

Glad you are enjoying it the S7. Craig comes from the pro audio world of UREI / JBL, so most of his stuff doesn't sound as colored as other tube amps. As you said, you can throw whatever music you have at it. You'll have plenty of fun rolling different 6SN7 or 7N7 tubes.
  
 The Vintage Moth 2A3 is really nice. It's better in some ways to the current EC stuff.


----------



## MoatsArt

Subbed


----------



## eantala

my super 7 is coming in at the end of the week, pretty excited.
  
 going to try to mate this with my hd800 and lcd x.    I think the lcdx is more similar to the hd800 than the either the lcd2 or lcd3. I have some 6sn7 lying around from my other amps that I can mix and match, but want to start the search for the ideal set.   It would be great to find one tube set that works optimally with both anyone have any suggestions to share?


----------



## FlySweep

Any word on whether the current S7 comes in the lower profile casework (that the 2A3 has) ?


----------



## JWahl

flysweep said:


> Any word on whether the current S7 comes in the lower profile casework (that the 2A3 has) ?


 
 I don't think so.  I think they have stopped making them.  At least for now.  I'm currently in the process of trying to repair mine and inquired about the possibility of just ordering a replacement board and Craig responded that they are not being made anymore so it would be disproportionately expensive to have a single board made.  So I continue to troubleshoot.  Not to mention, I don't think it could go any lower profile without changing to smaller transformers, or moving them to the outside of the chassis.
  
 And just a note that my amps damage is due to my own negligence, not of any fault of craftsmanship.


----------



## SoundApprentice

Reviving a dead thread because the Super 7 is awesome. Picked up 7 matched Baldwin tubes (by Raytheon or Sylvania?) and they sing compared to the stock Tung-Sols.


----------



## SoundApprentice

Not sure if anyone follows this thread anymore, but I have listed my EC Super 7 for sale. Delivered price is fully negotiable. I have a BA coming, and this MUST GO.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/783570/eddie-current-super-7-free-shipping-must-sell-make-an-offer


----------



## Dionysus

I no longer see the seven available on Eddie Current site, is it disco?


----------



## longbowbbs

Yes. The Black Widow is the new entry level EC offering. It is SS too.


----------



## Dionysus

thank you, I was thinking for my HD800. I heard great things about the Seven with regards to synergy and compatibility. So is this Black Widow similar in terms of the attributes (SQ) as the Seven?


----------



## longbowbbs

dionysus said:


> thank you, I was thinking for my HD800. I heard great things about the Seven with regards to synergy and compatibility. So is this Black Widow similar in terms of the attributes (SQ) as the Seven?


 
 I have never heard the seven. I only briefly heard the BW at the SF meet in July. I spent more time with the new version of the ZD.


----------



## danielwz

I am wondering where I can buy a balancing act from...


----------



## Luckbad (Sep 7, 2017)

What a glorious find. Still suffering from losing money when I thought I had a Cavalli Liquid Crimson on the hook, but this thing is incredible. Hoping to offload a bunch of other gear so this doesn't have to go away since it's unobtainium. Unfortunately, some of my stuff I have to sell is unobtainium as well.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Suffering!  Can't see your pic!


----------



## RedBull

Beautiful amp!


----------



## CEE TEE

^^Ah, couldn't see it on mobile...now I see.  Had one of the first Super 7s, only sold it to get a Balancing Act.  Enjoy.


----------



## Luckbad

I've been enjoying the Super 7 for a couple of months now. For people who know me, that's an eternity for a piece of gear to stay with me.

This is the most underappreciated amplifier I've ever had the pleasure to listen to, much less own.

The only reason I'd ever sell this baby is to step up to an Eddie Current Aficionado or something similar (or in a financial bind, of course). I'm not aware of anything under $2000--even on the used market--that I'd want to replace this with.

As tends to be the case, I've also modded it a bit. Now this Super 7 differs from stock in the following ways:

0.1μF Jantzen Superior Z-Cap capacitors x2
10μF Mundorf MCap EVO Aluminum Oil capacitors x2
Vampire CM1FCB RCA connectors
A big knurled metal volume knob
7x 7N7 tubes w/ adapters -- I purchased dozens of these and found a lovely combo.
Minor internal wiring. Hardly worth the mention.
Paired up with the S7:

PC: Built by me. Virtually silent, ultra powerful, super clean power, etc. I use a monstrous case so I don't have to sacrifice power or ambient sound levels (Thermaltake Core X9 case with a custom water loop and super quiet Cougar fans)
Digital: Lynx AES16e. In the same league as the Rednet 3 but much cheaper and it's internal to the PC rather than being a distractingly red large box.
DAC: Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 SE+ - effectively maxed out with mods apart from the tubes, which I skimp on slightly 
Headphone (Open): Sennheiser HD650 (modded with dynamat, partial rear foam removal, XLR) -- with this one, I use the Phase Reversal Trick for one of the channels
Headphone (Closed): JVC HA-DX2000 - Actually stock. If I do manage to keep these long term this time, I'll convert them to XLR.


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