# iFi Audio Nano iDSD discussion + impression



## ClieOS

Not much is known at this point except that (1) it is the first of Nano series, hence it will be smaller than the current Micro series. (2) It will decode DSD, thus the name iDSD. and (3) it could be priced as low as $160 or so (unconfirmed yet). (4) As you can see on the picture, it will have RCA line-out and a headphone-out. It will be officially announced on the Oct. 12th @ Beijing International Hi-Fi show
  
 Also there is mention of possible portable amp released under the Nano series in the future.


----------



## Baxide

Am I the only person who thinks that it is a silly place to put the RCA sockets on the front panel right next to the headphone socket?


----------



## ClieOS

baxide said:


> Am I the only person who thinks that it is a silly place to put the RCA sockets on the front panel right next to the headphone socket?


 
  
 Yeah, I complains about that on the iDAC as well.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Want.


----------



## GoSUV

Although 99% of my music library is Redbook CD 44.1/16 stuff, I read this with great interest as I am almost ready to take the plunge on a HRT Microstreamer upon learning that my iOS 7 running iPhone can finally support external DAC's that don't draw too much power. If the ifi nano series is going to be small, I am willing to give this DAC a look as my portable solution has been listening to an iPod's internal DAC, albeit going to a portable amp. If you wanted digital out from a portable iDevice, your options were limited to an iPad mini prior to iOS 7. Now that iOS 7 has opened up the possibilities with the USB Camera Connector, the strategy is always buy the newest since DAC technologies move so fast.


----------



## bedlam inside

Hi,



Quote:



clieos said:


> Not much is known at this point except that (1) it is the first of Nano series, hence it will be smaller than the current Micro series. (2) It will decode DSD, thus the name iDSD. and (3) it could be priced as low as $160 or so (unconfirmed yet). (4) As you can see on the picture, it will have RCA line-out and a headphone-out. It will be officially announced on the Oct. 12th @ Beijing International Hi-Fi show
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Well, it seems to pay to occasionally look at iFi's Facebook page:



https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio


The nano stuff is said to be also on show at RMAF Can Jan and at the Tokyo Headphone Show (but not in the UK, as usual, we get stuff last and then pay through the nose for it).



This seems to show the portable headphone Amp:



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=597768796925533&set=a.461191017249979.95398.460963790606035&type=1&relevant_count=1








I wonder if it has 3D sound and X-Bass. Notice no power cable? Seems it has a battery inside just like iDSD (see below).



If so I want for my daily commute to London, should be awesome on the train.



And here they posted the obverse of the iDSD thingey. 



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=598808493488230&set=a.461191017249979.95398.460963790606035&type=1&relevant_count=1






 




Not sure I can make heads or tails of that? That thing is more loaded with Tech Acronyms than a Japanese AV receiver! Tech Acronym OVERLOAD alert... 



DSD, is that that SACD thingey Sony were pushing around Y2K? I remember glowing reviews how great it would be and then not much else. Is that still around? And what on earth is DXD?



1400mAH is definitely a battery, even an old git like me can figure that.



And there seems a digital output!? And a "Filter" Switch?

 


Whoop dee doo, what does it ALL mean Basil?



Seems iFi love to put switches and acronyms on their stuff, mind you, not complaining, works great in my current setup. But maybe they should apply the suggests of the plain english campaign instead?



http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/



Cheerio Rich


----------



## ClieOS

Nice find!!! The portable amp looks interesting, though it is too small to make out any detail. Will be great if they are able to shrink the iCAN down into a portable amp. Not too sure why iDSD comes with battery though, unless it supports iPad / iPhone or Android, which will be quite epic, I reckon.
  
 My guess on the 'filter' is that it could be a selectable slow / fast roll filter for the DAC stage.


----------



## bedlam inside

Hi,

 Quote: 





clieos said:


> My guess on the 'filter' is that it could be a selectable slow / fast roll filter for the DAC stage.


 

 Sorry to be so daft, but what does " a selectable slow / fast roll filter for the DAC stage" do? 

 The only filter I know is the kind that goes into my De'Longhi Espresso Machine, but I wager this is different, innit?

 Cheers Rich


----------



## ClieOS

bedlam inside said:


> Sorry to be so daft, but what does " a selectable slow / fast roll filter for the DAC stage" do?


 
  
 Well, we only need frequency up to 20kHz for listening, but a good DAC these day usually either upsample or oversample to 192kHz (for pushing noise away from audible range, which is a very complex topic so just take it as it is). So what do we do to frequency over 20kHz? We build a filter after the DAC so only what below 20kHz will pass through. However, there are various design on these filters. Some do certain things better than others and people prefer one over another for different reason.. So sometime manufacturer will implement two filters, a fast roll-off and a slow roll-off, and make it selectable so user can pick whichever they prefer.


----------



## bedlam inside

Hi,

 Quote: 





clieos said:


> bedlam inside said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to be so daft, but what does " a selectable slow / fast roll filter for the DAC stage" do?
> ...


 

 I am not even going to pretend I understood any of this. Sorry, daft as a brush me is.

 Me mom probably dropped me too often on me noggin as baby during bathtime or something like that.

 Before my got my current kit, I used to have a Naim Pre/Power (and Linn Kan's). The preamp had so called Time Aligned input filter boards. I remember buying "blanking" boards that removed them and thinking things sounded better with the "blanking boards" than with the original filter boards. 

 So, is this switch something similar? There is a filter the boffins think is needed but it mucks the sound to people like me and the switch switches the "boffin filter" orf?

 Cheers Rich


----------



## ClieOS

No, they are not the same thing.


----------



## Nirmalanow

I just heard from Vincent at iFi, and he mentioned the Nano ICAN amp will have the X-Bass and 3D features of the bigger iCAN, along with a built in battery. If it sounds like it's big brother, that will be a nice combo. Although personally, I am happy with the external battery I found for my iCAN as I just use it as a transportable setup and do not need it to be more portable.


----------



## bedlam inside

Hi,

 Quote: 





clieos said:


> No, they are not the same thing.


 

 Ok, I'm too daft than. Thank you for taking the time and trying though.

 Cheers Rich


----------



## bedlam inside

Hi,

 Quote: 





nirmalanow said:


> I just heard from Vincent at iFi, and he mentioned the Nano ICAN amp will have the X-Bass and 3D features of the bigger iCAN, along with a built in battery. If it sounds like it's big brother, that will be a nice combo. Although personally, I am happy with the external battery I found for my iCAN as I just use it as a transportable setup and do not need it to be more portable.


 

 I just found this with more info:

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/show-report-canjam-at-rocky-mountain-audio-fest-2013-part-2/?page=2

 I hope HiFi+ do not mind if I copy this:
  
 "iFi Micro used CanJam to roll out its new nanoCan headphone amplifier (price TBA, but projected to fall under $200) and nanoDSD DAC (price TBA, but projected to fall under $200).
  
 The nanoCAN essentially incorporates all of the control and sound shaping features of the iCAN, but in a smaller, battery-powered format that offers 150mW of output with a battery big enough to provide a whopping 60 hours of non-stop playback.  Most importantly, the nanoCAN ostensibly preserves the iCAN’s terrific sound quality while offering a substantial drop in size and price.


  

The nanoDSD DAC, in turn, actually adds features vis-à-vis the iDAC, in that it provides what iFi terms “Advanced True Native DSD128/DXD/384 playback using (a) BurrBrown chipset.” What is more, the nanoDAC provides an 80mW headphone output along with conventional analogue outputs and it is said to be “iPhone/iPad/Smartphone” compatible."


  
Sounds nice enough. Normally "under 200" means 199, which sounds great for a portable iCAN, but I see power is WAY DOWN (almost cut to one third), so who knows what else is different?

I also send Vince at iFi an e-mail to see if he can give me more info.

 Cheerio Rich


----------



## ClieOS

150mW for a portable amp should be enough, unless you are using inefficient full sized headphone. I am more interested on whether it can retain the same level of SQ.


----------



## analogsurviver

Just dicovered and sub'ed to this thread. Interesting indeed. I will be in the market for a DSD DAC, specifically DSD128 or DSD at 5.6 MHz ( the format in which I do my master recordings ) and DXD. The only thing I miss in this DAC is MP3 192 kbps playback capability - I am NOT interested in any PCM in-beetween. DSD128 for obvious reasons, DXD out of curiosity what best commercially available PCM can bring to the table and MP3 for archiving European Classical Nocturno - non stop classical music show, usually interesting live petformance, broadcast daily from midnight to IIRC 5 or 6 in the morning. I may be sleeping, my Korg MR 1 DSD recorder set to MP3 192 kbps ( only MP3 it supports ) and recording off FM tuner does not.
  
 I am eyeing TEAC U501 DSD DAC - which supports the same formats as i nanoDSD DAC - and costs 4 times as much. TEAC unit was tested against 10+ times costlier machines and of course more money means better performance. I wish I could afford those 10K+$ machines - but if it turns out there is not too great difference in SQ between i nanoDSD DAC and TEAC, I may well reconsider putting TEAC off my wish list. Added bonus is portability AND one people are usually not fully aware of : powering any digital device off batteries may well result in better overall SQ, as mains connected power supplies powering digital gear can inject full complement of digital nastities into your power line, making your other components connected to the same AC outlet perform under their maximum fidelity. Powering digital with batteries also usually results in lower jitter, another added bonus.
  
 That acronym filled bottom of the case actually tells you pretty much everything you have to know about and how to connect and set up your computer/phone for the use of inano DSD DAC - instead of thick small format Operation Manual ( no doubt included with the unit ) I usually find hard to manipulate/read. Even if User Manual gets lost. Kudos to them for getting so much info in so small and so un-lost-able space !
  
 I am really looking forward to first reviews, particularly shoot out with Teac U501 DSD DAC.
  
_Good girls go to Heaven - bad girls go *Everywhere. *_
  
 ( or my way of saying why I prefer portable devices )


----------



## PUGSTUB

interesting unit.  I preordered one.  looking forward to trying it out


----------



## bedlam inside

Hi,

 So I am looking around the Music Direct Site, to see if there is anything to order and pick up at my trip to the US Office next week. What do I see?

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-161157-ifi-nano-idsd-dac.aspx
  
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-161151-ifi-nano-ican-headphone-amp.aspx
  
 Too bad they are not shipping now. Then I'd pick up the headphone amp right away.

 Cheers Rich


----------



## kbuzz

although obviosly way early, this will be an interesting comparison to the geek pulse. ignoring the portability factor, it means in the next few months there will be some nice choices in afforable dad dacs.....


----------



## georgelai57

I'm confused. How do I connect an iPhone 5 to this?


----------



## Roscoeiii

georgelai57 said:


> I'm confused. How do I connect an iPhone 5 to this?


 
 You would use a lightning connector cable.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Amazed that there hasn't been more buzz on this. I'd think this thread should be at least 30 pages long right now with the anticipation....


----------



## Turrican2

Anyone got any news on this?  I'm looking to pick one up ASAP!!  I thought they were getting released in Dec.  if ANYONE can tell me where I can buy one in the UK I'd be highly grateful.
  
 Thanks


----------



## smial1966

+1  
  
 I'm very keen to acquire this too but iFi UK online stockists don't seem to have stock yet. 
  
 Quote:


turrican2 said:


> Anyone got any news on this?  I'm looking to pick one up ASAP!!  I thought they were getting released in Dec.  if ANYONE can tell me where I can buy one in the UK I'd be highly grateful.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Jason36

turrican2 said:


> Anyone got any news on this?  I'm looking to pick one up ASAP!!  I thought they were getting released in Dec.  if ANYONE can tell me where I can buy one in the UK I'd be highly grateful.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
  


smial1966 said:


>


 
  
 Ditto.
  
 Also does anybody know whether it will work at 24/96 with the ipad4 (currently using FLAC Player)??


----------



## Turrican2

jason36 said:


>


 
 Jason, it should play 24bit audio no probs, according to the specs...taken from their Facebook page.  I for one (having heard this device on my Samsung s3) am VERY excited about owning one.


----------



## murphythecat

so this can only read DSD files, no mp3?


----------



## Roscoeiii

murphythecat said:


> so this can only read DSD files, no mp3?




The ads say things like "all audio formats" so I would be shocked if mp3 isn't supported. I an psyched because I imagine the iDSD will also handle streaming audio from my phone


----------



## SpudHarris

.


----------



## murphythecat

if this can read mp3 this is just the easiest all in one solution for portable systems
wow
i nver cared much for portable system but for the money thats a no brainer


----------



## Roscoeiii

Agreed. Looking forward to their release. Plan to grab one from Music Direct.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## Turrican2

Just Pre-ordered one, availability January. Really looking forward to getting it. Anyone managed to get a hold of one yet?


----------



## smial1966

Turrican2, 
  
 Which retailer did you pre-order from? I've been trying to ascertain from iFi which online retailers have stock without success.
  
 Thanks. 
  
 Quote:


turrican2 said:


> Just Pre-ordered one, availability January. Really looking forward to getting it. Anyone managed to get a hold of one yet?


----------



## Turrican2

I bought it from David at http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/

Just search for ifi using his search box. I also bought my itube from David, he is a great guy.


----------



## smial1966

Many thanks!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


turrican2 said:


> I bought it from David at http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/
> 
> Just search for ifi using his search box. I also bought my itube from David, he is a great guy.


----------



## SpudHarris

Sorry if I am missing something but I can't see mention of the cables required from idevices. I haven't seen a 30pin (old idevices) to that digital input.
  
 Really interested since melting my iCan


----------



## Roscoeiii

Think you wil want something like these: 
  
 1) the cheap version: http://www.amazon.com/Card-Adapter-Apple-Camera-Connection/dp/B008LYU2K0/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388682871&sr=1-3&keywords=iphone+4+camera+connection+kit
  
 2) more expensive, but from Apple themselves: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-Camera-Connection-MC531ZM/dp/B003K1EYM6


----------



## Haidar

Too bad this DAC can't work over Bluetooth..


----------



## SpudHarris

roscoeiii said:


> Think you wil want something like these:
> 
> 1) the cheap version: http://www.amazon.com/Card-Adapter-Apple-Camera-Connection/dp/B008LYU2K0/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388682871&sr=1-3&keywords=iphone+4+camera+connection+kit
> 
> 2) more expensive, but from Apple themselves: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-Camera-Connection-MC531ZM/dp/B003K1EYM6




Cheers for this. Was hoping there was a short cable for connecting ipod classic and touch. I have an ipad set up at home with squeezebox and ipeng + tube amp so just thinking about portability more so.....

Anyone?


----------



## technobear

murphythecat said:


> so this can only read DSD files, no mp3?




DACs don't decode MP3.

Players decode MP3 and output PCM.

Ditto for WMA, FLAC, ALAC, etc.


----------



## ticos442

turrican2 said:


> Just Pre-ordered one, availability January. Really looking forward to getting it. Anyone managed to get a hold of one yet?


 

 I got mine today.  I ordered it through MusicDirect.com
  
 Even though I got it to be my portable DAC to play high resolution files from my iPad, I am currently in the burn-in phase, connecting it this way:
 Mac Mini -> iFi iUSBPower -> iFi iDSD -> RCA output to Yamaha amplifier and connected to my office speakers.    I'm using Audirvana to play high rez files up to 24/192 and DSD files through Audirvana.  It sounds terrific even out of the box!
  
 For the portable configuration, I performed some tests this afternoon and got pleasantly great results:
 1.  Works perfectly just connecting the iDSD to the iPad using CCK
 2.  *No need for Powered Hub* at all
 3.  The iDSD has a led light with colors that show the specific frequency, similar to the Dragonfly.  It has different lights for 1X (44.1, 48), 2X (88.2, 96) and 4X (176.4, 192), as well as different colors for DSD content at different frequencies:  DXD 353/384Mhz, DSD 2.8/3.1Mhz and DSD 5.6/6.2 MHz
 4.  I played content in all different formats and frequencies above in my iPad and got the right results - bit perfect every time.  Used the FLAC app for PCM content and the Onkyo HF Player for DSD content.  I selected the option to play DSD directly without any PCM conversion, I'm very impressed thus far!
 So far this little technology marvel will be my travel companion as it does not require the USB Powered Hub as it has its own internal battery, supposed to last 10 hours.
  
 Simply amazing for its price!  We are indeed living in the golden age of music technology, with the availability of just awesome DACs, IEMs and cans.  We just need the music labels to produce better musical content, including high quality high resolution recordings/files!


----------



## KmanChu

ticos442 said:


> Simply amazing for its price!  We are indeed living in the golden age of music technology, with the availability of just awesome DACs, IEMs and cans.  We just need the music labels to produce better musical content, including high quality high resolution recordings/files!


 
  
 How does the headphone out sound on it? Running on battery power it should be pretty quiet and good for IEMs. I have been using the iDAC and iCAN in my desktop system for 2 months and have been really pleased with the results. If I had it to do again I would have just waited for the iDSD instead of iDAC for taking on the road.   For portable use, you'd be set with an iDSD, a set of IEMs, and a smartphone.


----------



## ticos442

kmanchu said:


> How does the headphone out sound on it? Running on battery power it should be pretty quiet and good for IEMs. I have been using the iDAC and iCAN in my desktop system for 2 months and have been really pleased with the results. If I had it to do again I would have just waited for the iDSD instead of iDAC for taking on the road.   For portable use, you'd be set with an iDSD, a set of IEMs, and a smartphone.


 
 I agree with your comments.  Even though I've had the iDSD for only one day, I'm very impressed with all the tests I've performed.  I will also be running a test to see how long it takes for the battery to drain out using different IEMs.
  
 I'll repeat here my recent entry on a similar separate thread:
  
 I have tested it with all my IEMs and cans using the iPad+CCK as the source.  The most sensitive IEMs I have are the Monster Turbine Pro Copper and the Monster Miles Davis.  Sound quality is superb and background is ultra quiet.  When you pause the music you can't hear anything at all (no hissing or other electronic noise artifacts), and when playing soft music or quiet passages in a song, there is no noise present whatsoever.  The only hissing I hear is the one coming from older recordings (the tape hiss from the masters when the music was recorded), which is normal.
  
 The iDSD also performs admirable with my full size Ultrasone8 headphones.  It works with my very hard to drive Grado PS1000s, but I need to crank up the volume pretty high, and the performance is not the same as using more powerful headphone amplifiers.  Again, this is normal and I was not expecting to use the iDSD with its internal battery source with my Grado headphones.
  
 In summary - I am extremely impressed!


----------



## Roscoeiii

ticos442 said:


> I agree with your comments.  Even though I've had the iDSD for only one day, I'm very impressed with all the tests I've performed.  I will also be running a test to see how long it takes for the battery to drain out using different IEMs.
> 
> I'll repeat here my recent entry on a similar separate thread:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can you point us to the other thread with your iDSD comments? This is the only thread on the iDSD that I had come across.


----------



## ticos442

roscoeiii said:


> Can you point us to the other thread with your iDSD comments? This is the only thread on the iDSD that I had come across.


 

 There are several out there if you enter iDSD in the search area.  The other ones I was referring to are:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693505/ifi-idsd-works-with-sony-zx-1/15#post_10133002
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-with-24-bit-files-high-storage-capacity-portability-bit-perfect-configurations-that-work/105#post_10130931


----------



## Roscoeiii

Thanks, I'd only done a Google search, not a search within Headfi.


----------



## Roscoeiii

ticos442 said:


> There are several out there if you enter iDSD in the search area.  The other ones I was referring to are:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/693505/ifi-idsd-works-with-sony-zx-1/15#post_10133002
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-with-24-bit-files-high-storage-capacity-portability-bit-perfect-configurations-that-work/105#post_10130931


 
  
 Really look forward to your comparison with the Explorer.


----------



## ticos442

roscoeiii said:


> Really look forward to your comparison with the Explorer.


 
 I would like to write more comparisons in a few days after more break-in on the iDSD, but here are my very early impressions after listening to the iDSD for about 5 hours in standalone power mode, through the iPad+CCK configuration, listening to mostly 24/192 PCM files.  The difference with the Explorer is that I had to of course use a powered hub to connect the explorer, which is not needed in the iDSD due to its internal power source.
  
 - Explorer:  Great detail, smoothness and liquidity in the sound, which is the signature Meridian sound.  It has an overall relaxed sound that I have not heard in any other DACs, except of course the more expensive Meridian Director and Meridian Prime
  
 -iDSD:  very accurate in all frequency ranges, seems to reproduce the music exactly as it was recorded without any coloring.  Not as smooth as the Explorer, but very close in terms of sound quality.
  
 The above is just an assessment based on the sound.  If the assessment is based on functionality, the iDSD wins hands down.  Here are a few features that the iDSD has that are not available in the Explorer:
 - Internal battery power, up to 10hours (alleged)
 - Ability to play DSD files up to 1 bit, 6.2MHz
 - Volume knob for manual control
 - RCA outputs
 - SPDIF digital output (PCM only)
 - USB 3.0, with USB 2.0 compatibility
 - PCM up to 32 bit, 384 KHz
 - Digital filter option
  
 I have no idea how iFi was able to pack all these features on a $189 device.  The packaging (Apple-like) and build quality are first class as well.


----------



## Roscoeiii

ticos442 said:


> I would like to write more comparisons in a few days after more break-in on the iDSD, but here are my very early impressions after listening to the iDSD for about 5 hours in standalone power mode, through the iPad+CCK configuration, listening to mostly 24/192 PCM files.  The difference with the Explorer is that I had to of course use a powered hub to connect the explorer, which is not needed in the iDSD due to its internal power source.
> 
> - Explorer:  Great detail, smoothness and liquidity in the sound, which is the signature Meridian sound.  It has an overall relaxed sound that I have not heard in any other DACs, except of course the more expensive Meridian Director and Meridian Prime
> 
> ...


 
  
 Many thanks for that comparison. 
  
 Played around with the digital filter option yet?


----------



## ticos442

roscoeiii said:


> Many thanks for that comparison.
> 
> Played around with the digital filter option yet?


 

 I have not yet.  Just flipping the switch does not seem to have any big effect on the sound, but I'll have to listen more carefully.  The small manual that comes inside the iDSD box states:
_*"Digital Filter:  Alternate between Standard or Minimum Phase.  Tip:  we recommend Minimum Phase for listening; Standard for measurements."*_


----------



## SlingBlade

I got mine and my initial impressions are very good. I can't believe it's only $190!


----------



## Roscoeiii

slingblade said:


> I got mine and my initial impressions are very good. I can't believe it's only $190!


 
 Can't wait for your more detailed impressions. Very psyched to hear more about this one.


----------



## SlingBlade

ticos442 said:


> I would like to write more comparisons in a few days after more break-in on the iDSD, but here are my very early impressions after listening to the iDSD for about 5 hours in standalone power mode, through the iPad+CCK configuration, listening to mostly 24/192 PCM files.  The difference with the Explorer is that I had to of course use a powered hub to connect the explorer, which is not needed in the iDSD due to its internal power source.
> 
> - Explorer:  Great detail, smoothness and liquidity in the sound, which is the signature Meridian sound.  It has an overall relaxed sound that I have not heard in any other DACs, except of course the more expensive Meridian Director and Meridian Prime
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with you completely. Even about the Apple-like packaging, exactly what came into my head when unpacking. And plenty of power for my EarSonics IEM's. I am simply blown away with the features and build quality at this price point. Their margin can't be all that much given what they've given us here.


----------



## semeniub

I will be receiving my iFi Nano iDSD in a few days, and am very interested to compare it as a DAC to my AMI MUSIK DS5, which I really like a lot as a DAC for both high-res PCM and DSD files.


----------



## Haidar

Here's a recent review in four parts:
  
 http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=931
  
 http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=955
  
 http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=1025
  
 http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=1040


----------



## ticos442

haidar said:


> Here's a recent review in four parts:
> 
> http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=931
> 
> ...


 

 - I agree with most aspects of the review, but the "cons" in my opinion are either not iFi's issue, or not that important for my use case.
 - I agree that the 30 pin CCK connector is very unstable on iPods and iPads, but this is an Apple issue.
 - The Lightning CCK adapter is much more stable, I'm using it in my iPhone5 connected to the iDSD without any hiccups, and it's a solid connection.   I currently have an iPad3 that has the 30 pin connector to CCK, but will be looking to upgrading to an iPad Air at some point soon so that I can use the more stable Lightning to USB CCK.
 - The volume control is more than adequate for my needs, using sensitive IEMs, I don't go past the halfway mark.  I'm also careful with my ears/hearing specially at my age, so I have not experienced the issue of the iDSD not having enough power/volume to drive most of my IEMs and full size Ultrasone8 headphone
  
 I've had the iDSD for more than a week now and it sounds wonderful, and it's the perfect travel companion for hi-fi enjoyment.  The iDSD is a very competent home or office based system as well using the RCA outputs.  It won't replace my Meridian Prime DAC/Amplifier at home, but on the road it provides huge musical enjoyment with very crisp, clear and transparent delivery across the board


----------



## semeniub

Mine arrived this morning, and it's currently playing files from Audirvana+, and connected to an iFi iUSBPower using an Elijah Audio Isolaate BL split usb cable. RCA output is then to an iFi iTube, and then to my main amp and speakers.
  
 Sound is really nice and clear from the very start for both hires PCM and DSD; agreed that it is a very good value for it's price compared to my other equipment.
  
 Will try it as a headphone amp later today, especially when connected to an iPhone 5S playing hires files from the ONKYO HF app.


----------



## kugino

anywhere else to buy this in the USA other than music direct? they show a 4-6 week wait...might as just wait for my geek out if i have to wait that long. how long ago did you guys wait for yours...assuming you're in the US. thanks.


----------



## ticos442

kugino said:


> anywhere else to buy this in the USA other than music direct? they show a 4-6 week wait...might as just wait for my geek out if i have to wait that long. how long ago did you guys wait for yours...assuming you're in the US. thanks.


 

 I did use music direct.  It is unfortunate that the wait is so long, they must have ran out of inventory.   I pre-ordered early December 2013 and got it early January 2014 when they got their first batch.


----------



## semeniub

kugino said:


> anywhere else to buy this in the USA other than music direct? they show a 4-6 week wait...might as just wait for my geek out if i have to wait that long. how long ago did you guys wait for yours...assuming you're in the US. thanks.


 
 I pre-ordered in early January with a shop in The Netherlands and received today - I was lucky that the entire process was only slightly more than a week.


----------



## smial1966

You guys should feel fortunate, as even though iFi are a British company, UK purchasers are STILL waiting for their Nano units. As it appears that there's been a staggered release worldwide with us Brits last in line. Ho hum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


semeniub said:


> I pre-ordered in early January with a shop in The Netherlands and received today - I was lucky that the entire process was only slightly more than a week.


----------



## semeniub

A few more early comments on the iFi Nano iDSD...
  
 It really likes to be connected with a split usb cable to either battery power or the iFi iUSBPower - this really brought a satisfying smoothness to the sound compared to connection by regular usb cable.
  
 It was seamless to connect to the iPhone 5S using the ONKYO HF app - now if it was only possible to stream hires music from the cloud to this app on the iPhone!
  
 Only complaints so far - soundstage depth and height is maybe restricted as compared to my usual setup, maybe this will change over time. Sound is maybe slightly less warm or liquid compared to what I was used to, and this may also change.
  
 These comments are for output through speakers (so looking at the DAC aspect mostly), am curious now how things will be with headphones to see how it does as an amp.


----------



## kugino

now that the geek out is delayed indefinitely, i might pick up the idsd...i'm sure i'll find uses for both.


----------



## Tony1110

Typical :rolleyes:


----------



## StratocasterMan

Here's what I'm trying to understand:
  
 It looks to me like the iDSD will serve as a USB to S/PDIF converter.
  
 I have a Fiio E17, which only supports 96 / 24 via USB. It supports 192 / 24 via S/PDIF, but I use a Windows PC that doesn't have S/PDIF output, so I'm limited to 96 / 24 via USB output to my FiiO E17 from my computer.
  
 I'm happy with the warm sound of the FiiO E17!
  
 Will the iDSD serve as a USB to S/PDIF converter?
  
 Will it allow me to run 192/24 USB into the iDSD, and then S/PDIF at 192 / 24 out of the iDSD into the FiiO E17?


----------



## kugino

stratocasterman said:


> Here's what I'm trying to understand:
> 
> It looks to me like the iDSD will serve as a USB to S/PDIF converter.
> 
> ...


 
  the idsd tech specs page: http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/nano_iDSD.html
  
 it seems like it will output up to 192 via the digital out, so yes, i believe you can output it to your FiiO...


----------



## ticos442

kugino said:


> the idsd tech specs page: http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/nano_iDSD.html
> 
> it seems like it will output up to 192 via the digital out, so yes, i believe you can output it to your FiiO...


 

 That is correct, it has a digital out so you could connect it to the S/PDIF input of the FiiO E17 (this output is PCM only, not DSD).  However, it feels that it would be overkill to use the iDSD purely as a USB to S/PDIF converter.  I have owned FiiO DACs and amplifiers in the past (not the E17 though), and the iDSD itself has superior sound quality on its own right, and supports PCM on its USB input up to 24/192 and it's also a native DSD DAC, with many other features that the FiiO does not have.
  
 If you really like the FiiO sound, there are cheaper USB to S/PDIF converters out there than the iDSD.  The iDSD is also more expensive than the FiiO E17 unit.  But if you want to go ahead and buy the iDSD unit anyway, you might find that you'll probably end up selling the FiiO and just use the iDSD as your DAC/amp.
  
 My two cents after owning the iDSD for a bit more than two weeks, it has become one of my trusted daily companions...


----------



## StratocasterMan

ticos442 said:


> That is correct, it has a digital out so you could connect it to the S/PDIF input of the FiiO E17 (this output is PCM only, not DSD).  However, it feels that it would be overkill to use the iDSD purely as a USB to S/PDIF converter.  I have owned FiiO DACs and amplifiers in the past (not the E17 though), and the iDSD itself has superior sound quality on its own right, and supports PCM on its USB input up to 24/192 and it's also a native DSD DAC, with many other features that the FiiO does not have.
> 
> If you really like the FiiO sound, there are cheaper USB to S/PDIF converters out there than the iDSD.  The iDSD is also more expensive than the FiiO E17 unit.  But if you want to go ahead and buy the iDSD unit anyway, you might find that you'll probably end up selling the FiiO and just use the iDSD as your DAC/amp.
> 
> My two cents after owning the iDSD for a bit more than two weeks, it has become one of my trusted daily companions...


 
  
 Yeah, I'm almost certain that I'm going to buy the iDSD, without having the chance to hear one. It will let me try DSD, which I can't do now, but I'm mainly interested in PCM.
  
 I really do like the FiiO E17 which is known for a warm sound. If the iDSD sounds better in all respects, then I'll just use it. However, if it doesn't sound better to me, it is still likely to improve the sound of the FiiO because it will let me use the S/PDIF input on the FiiO instead of the USB and it will let me play all of the PCM files above 96 / 24. That's why I think I'm going to buy one. It's either going to replace my FiiO E17, or even if it doesn't, it's going to give me DSD and make the FiiO sound even better. It should be a win either way.


----------



## semeniub

I've now been able to get some really nice sound out of the Nano iDSD when using both Grado SR80i's and Audeze LCD2's (while playing hires music from the ONKYO HF app on the iPhone).
  
 It may be my imagination, but I think it sounds better when connected this way to the iPhone, than when playing music from a Mac and Audirvana+. Does anyone else have this experience?


----------



## KmanChu

semeniub said:


> I've now been able to get some really nice sound out of the Nano iDSD when using both Grado SR80i's and Audeze LCD2's (while playing hires music from the ONKYO HF app on the iPhone).
> 
> It may be my imagination, but I think it sounds better when connected this way to the iPhone, than when playing music from a Mac and Audirvana+. Does anyone else have this experience?


 
  
 On the mac is it playing from battery power or from USB port power? The battery should be a very clean power source, the computers USB port not so clean.


----------



## semeniub

kmanchu said:


> On the mac is it playing from battery power or from USB port power? The battery should be a very clean power source, the computers USB port not so clean.


 
 USB port power - I should know of the pitfalls of this already (I have 2 different split usb cables, and a Kingrex UPower and an iFi iUSBPower). Will do some more tests with a hopefully improved setup.


----------



## StratocasterMan

I just placed my order with Music Direct for an iDSD.


----------



## earwaxxer

I just placed an order for one as well...
  
 It was my understanding, that if the iDSD is turned on before it is connected to the USB on the PC then it would be using its internal battery, and the USB power is not connected. I might be wrong on that. If thats the case, it shouldnt matter if you have a split cable or not.
  
 I have played around quite a bit with making my own battery supplies for the Wyrd4snd ULink and other USB powered DAC's. I do notice a difference with the battery with say the ULink. Its certainly not that easy to detect. I noticed it at high volumes through my speakers. With battery - better, lower bass, somewhat cleaner presentation, a bit more 'drive'. Something I would not be able to identify with any reliability at low/normal listening levels. Wryrd is good at cleaning up the power supply noise though....


----------



## ticos442

stratocasterman said:


> Yeah, I'm almost certain that I'm going to buy the iDSD, without having the chance to hear one. It will let me try DSD, which I can't do now, but I'm mainly interested in PCM.
> 
> I really do like the FiiO E17 which is known for a warm sound. If the iDSD sounds better in all respects, then I'll just use it. However, if it doesn't sound better to me, it is still likely to improve the sound of the FiiO because it will let me use the S/PDIF input on the FiiO instead of the USB and it will let me play all of the PCM files above 96 / 24. That's why I think I'm going to buy one. It's either going to replace my FiiO E17, or even if it doesn't, it's going to give me DSD and make the FiiO sound even better. It should be a win either way.


 

 Cool.  I think you won't regret it.  The only issue that I've read recently is that it's backlogged at most retailers as they sold out on their first batches.  Hope you can get one soon.


----------



## semeniub

As has been suggested, I've tried turning the power on first before connecting the Nano iDSD to a computer, and this does indeed give much better sonics than using USB bus power. This mirrors my iPhone connection experience.
  
 Next question - since it is possible to run the device purely in battery mode and it is not relying on noisy USB power from the computer, how sensitive will it be to the use of expensive USB cables. Will they be effective, or not at all...


----------



## earwaxxer

semeniub said:


> As has been suggested, I've tried turning the power on first before connecting the Nano iDSD to a computer, and this does indeed give much better sonics than using USB bus power. This mirrors my iPhone connection experience.
> 
> *Next question - since it is possible to run the device purely in battery mode and it is not relying on noisy USB power from the computer, how sensitive will it be to the use of expensive USB cables. Will they be effective, or not at all...*


 
 The cable is most certainly a factor with USB, even in terms of the getting just the bits to the other end. I wish it wasnt. I ended up using a "jumper" that has two ends with no cable in between. That sounds better than my Audioquest Carbon. I got it at Radio Shack. Of course my laptop sits on the floor beside my other gear.


----------



## semeniub

earwaxxer said:


> The cable is most certainly a factor with USB, even in terms of the getting just the bits to the other end. I wish it wasnt. I ended up using a "jumper" that has two ends with no cable in between. That sounds better than my Audioquest Carbon. I got it at Radio Shack. Of course my laptop sits on the floor beside my other gear.


 
 I've had the same experience with my other DAC's (which is why I have 2 split USB cables), but I'm hoping that because the iFi nano iDSD can be run off it's own internal battery power, this will be less important. Will check this later in the week when I have more time.


----------



## KmanChu

semeniub said:


> As has been suggested, I've tried turning the power on first before connecting the Nano iDSD to a computer, and this does indeed give much better sonics than using USB bus power. This mirrors my iPhone connection experience.
> 
> Next question - since it is possible to run the device purely in battery mode and it is not relying on noisy USB power from the computer, how sensitive will it be to the use of expensive USB cables. Will they be effective, or not at all...


 
  
 I have a moderately fancy usb cable ($300) and ifi iusb power supply in my main loudspeaker setup prior to my SPDIF converter. In my desktop headphone setup I use an ifi iDAC and have experimented with putting the fancy cable and iUSB power in the chain. There is improvement, but not nearly enough to make me throw the $500+ at incrementally improving the $300 iDAC. The power supply is a nice improvement, but the cable is just silly in that setup as it costs almost as much as the iDAC itself. I would be curious to see if the iDSD scales any better with cables than the iDAC.


----------



## cute

kmanchu said:


> semeniub said:
> 
> 
> > As has been suggested, I've tried turning the power on first before connecting the Nano iDSD to a computer, and this does indeed give much better sonics than using USB bus power. This mirrors my iPhone connection experience.
> ...


 

 I purchased the iFi I Link and used it with my fancy USB cable and wasn't impressed.  I read about the I USB and Gemini Cable, purchased them, and couldn't believe the improvement.  It was like a new setup including DAC, but I was using my same old Audio-GD DAC.  I then purchased the I Purifier, for even more improvement.  I now have a fantastic sounding setup thanks to iFi Micro, and a fancy Pure Silver USB cable and MF V-link for sale!
  
 Thank you iFi Micro!


----------



## ticos442

cute said:


> I purchased the iFi I Link and used it with my fancy USB cable and wasn't impressed.  I read about the I USB and Gemini Cable, purchased them, and couldn't believe the improvement.


 
 To which end of the iFi Micro are you connecting the Gemini cable?  I have read about people connect it in three different ways:  a) directly to the computer to two USB outputs and then to the iFi micro  b) from the iFi micro dual outputs to the USB DAC input. c) using two Gemini cables to make the connections in a) and b) above


----------



## cute

I am using the blue USB cable supplied for the I Link from computer > I USB > Gemini cable dual output > I Purifier > I Link > Neotech NEVD-2001 BNC Cryo Digital Cable > Audio-GD NFB2 > Audioquest Colorado Interconnects > Denon 2808 > Audioquest Colorado Interconnects > Ming DA 8407 Zone 2 (Headphones)/Hafler XL 280 Zone 1 (Speakers) > Kimber PSB Extension Cable > Detachable Headphone Cables > Beyerdynamic T1, DT880 600 Ohm, DT990 600 ohm.


----------



## KmanChu

cute said:


> I purchased the iFi I Link and used it with my fancy USB cable and wasn't impressed.  I read about the I USB and Gemini Cable, purchased them, and couldn't believe the improvement.  It was like a new setup including DAC, but I was using my same old Audio-GD DAC.  I then purchased the I Purifier, for even more improvement.  I now have a fantastic sounding setup thanks to iFi Micro, and a fancy Pure Silver USB cable and MF V-link for sale!
> 
> Thank you iFi Micro!


 
  
 Don't tell me this! I had just about convinced myself I was done with buying stuff for a while, but I_ have _been curious about the Gemini for a while. I am definitely drinking the ifi koolaid at this point and wouldn't be surprised if their cable did work particularly well with their products. There was a discussion about the gemini a while back on the computer audiophile boards and the consensus was that the Gemini was a good cable, and good value for the money but not especially groundbreaking. Now you have my curiosity up again ...


----------



## cute

For me, the iFi products are a game changer.......check out their Facebook page for all the details!


----------



## soulkeeper

just received it and charging it!
  
 1) is there any "best" position for the volume knob when using the rca outputs to my Hegel integrated amplifier?
  
 2) couldn't find any info about headphone amp. power in various loads (32Ohm,64Ohm etc)...is the mentioned 80mW for 16Ohm?


----------



## ticos442

soulkeeper said:


> just received it and charging it!
> 
> 1) is there any "best" position for the volume knob when using the rca outputs to my Hegel integrated amplifier?


 
 I'm afraid it is a bit of trial and error, depending on your configurations and amp.  I suggest that you connect the RCA outputs to the DAC and start with low volume levels and experiment if there's any clipping if you go all the way up to 60-80% of maximum volume.  I've had experiences with different equipment with different behaviors and outcome:
  
 a) My Yamaha receiver has no issues with the iDSD set at even maximum volume
 b) When I feed the iDSD RCA out to my Control4 distribution gear (controller, Media Bridge and Amplifiers), the music is noticeable clipped when the iDSD is at max volume.  The easy fix is just to turn the volume down to 60-80% of maximum
 c) If you will use the iDSD as both headphone amp and also pre-amp output (let's say to feed remote speakers), please do not turn the volume knob all the way up, otherwise you will probably damage your headphones or your ears


----------



## earwaxxer

I would be currious if anyone has both the Schiit and ifi iDSD Nano and how they compare. I have the Gungnir. I have to say, I'm more than a bit disappointed with it. It is too 'shouty' in the midrange with my maggies. Too distracting. Cant focus on anything else.. I even adjusted the ribbon crossover point. Still no good. What I'm listening to now is this ridiculously cheap DAC that I got a Parts Express on a whim. Running it on battery, with the ULink doing USB/SPDIF duties. - Anyway - as soon as I get my Nano I will report back (after some burn in of course).....


----------



## kugino

earwaxxer said:


> I would be currious if anyone has both the Schiit and ifi iDSD Nano and how they compare. I have the Gungnir. I have to say, I'm more than a bit disappointed with it. It is too 'shouty' in the midrange with my maggies. Too distracting. Cant focus on anything else.. I even adjusted the ribbon crossover point. Still no good. What I'm listening to now is this ridiculously cheap DAC that I got a Parts Express on a whim. Running it on battery, with the ULink doing USB/SPDIF duties. - Anyway - as soon as I get my Nano I will report back (after some burn in of course).....


I'm actually interested in how idsd and the Loki compare with DSD files.


----------



## ticos442

earwaxxer said:


> I would be currious if anyone has both the Schiit and ifi iDSD Nano and how they compare. I have the Gungnir. I have to say, I'm more than a bit disappointed with it. It is too 'shouty' in the midrange with my maggies. Too distracting. Cant focus on anything else.. I even adjusted the ribbon crossover point. Still no good. What I'm listening to now is this ridiculously cheap DAC that I got a Parts Express on a whim. Running it on battery, with the ULink doing USB/SPDIF duties. - Anyway - as soon as I get my Nano I will report back (after some burn in of course).....


 
 Wow - I have read mostly good reviews about Schiit DACs, even though I don't own one.  I'm curious to read your assessment after you listen to the iDSD, as the price point of the Gungnir is 4X the iDSD, so any comparison would have to take that into account.  It would be really Schiiti for them if the iDSD is better at a fraction of the price.


----------



## earwaxxer

ticos442 said:


> Wow - I have read mostly good reviews about Schiit DACs, even though I don't own one.  I'm curious to read your assessment after you listen to the iDSD, as the price point of the Gungnir is 4X the iDSD, so any comparison would have to take that into account.  It would be really Shiiti for them if the iDSD is better at a fraction of the price.


 

 True... as you all know, its hard/impossible to hear a piece of kit before you buy it, so getting something that doesnt work out with a particular system happens a lot. Thats why we are here talking about it, and people are hesitant to spend a chunk of change only to sell it on ebay for half. Honestly, my personal 'observation' of how the Gungnir sounds in my system is based on listening over time, but more so on comparisons with some of my other DACs. Especially this little gem from Parts Express - http://www.parts-express.com/fiio-d03k-coaxial-optical-dac-digital-analog-converter--230-120. It made me think that more is not necessarily better. I took the DAC apart and it has Cirrus Logic chips in it. There are other factors, I run the DAC straight in to my Emotiva XPA-2. Could be a synergy factor - Anyway - IMO these new inexpensive DACs with modern clocks, chips, op amps and other inexpensive techniques could well be the future of the everyman audiophile digital front end.


----------



## Roscoeiii

No need to sell either Schiit or iDSD for half on eBay. Both can be found with excellent 15-30 day return policies (Schiit from Schiit; iFi from Music Direct).


----------



## ticos442

earwaxxer said:


> True... as you all know, its hard/impossible to hear a piece of kit before you buy it, so getting something that doesnt work out with a particular system happens a lot. Thats why we are here talking about it, and people are hesitant to spend a chunk of change only to sell it on ebay for half. Honestly, my personal 'observation' of how the Gungnir sounds in my system is based on listening over time, but more so on comparisons with some of my other DACs. Especially this little gem from Parts Express - http://www.parts-express.com/fiio-d03k-coaxial-optical-dac-digital-analog-converter--230-120. It made me think that more is not necessarily better. I took the DAC apart and it has Cirrus Logic chips in it. There are other factors, I run the DAC straight in to my Emotiva XPA-2. Could be a synergy factor - Anyway - IMO these new inexpensive DACs with modern clocks, chips, op amps and other inexpensive techniques could well be the future of the everyman audiophile digital front end.


 

 Well said, it has been my experience over the years as well.  And you are also correct that with recent fast and furious releases of inexpensive DACs with solid technical implementations, and high quality/resolution music files, we are living in an audiophile golden era.  After 35 years of being in this hobby, I am finding so much enjoyment of listening to music, in the same way that I used to listed to my carefully taken care of vinyl records and hi fi systems in the 70s.  I'm finding that today, with the right gear, and with high quality and resolution recordings, the experience is even better than in past years, and truly portable in many cases.


----------



## Pentagonal

For those concerned with shipping times, I just ordered an iDSD from TweekGeek.com and they placed me on the next shipping batch. I only need to wait 1 week as those are coming in around late January. I can't wait to get it!


----------



## kugino

pentagonal said:


> For those concerned with shipping times, I just ordered an iDSD from TweekGeek.com and they placed me on the next shipping batch. I only need to wait 1 week as those are coming in around late January. I can't wait to get it!


 
 the iDSD's not listed on tweekgeek. i'm assuming you spoke to them and ordered over the phone? maybe i'll give them a call tomorrow...


----------



## iFi audio

*How to take full advantage of True Native PCM/DSD/DXD playback - WINDOWS*
  
 Before we proceed, we do apologise but we cannot answer emails on whether products by other manufacturers play 'True Native DSD.' Being part of AMR means we have a 'no comment' policy on other manufacturers. We have rec'd a 'few' emails on this question which is why we would like to state upfront to clarify.
  
 Without further ado, the following is a brief tutorial on how to setup JRMC to send DSD natively via DoP. Yes, the iDSD does not convert internally to another format, hence 'True Native'.
  
  
*Setup Instructions*
 The following are examples on each OS X and Windows platform, Audirvana Plus and JRiver Media Center respectively (if your program is different, the principle remains the same but please consult your software vendor for more information).
  
  
  
*JRiver Media Centre: *
  

  

  
  
  
*Step 1: *Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Output. Select WASAPI
  
*Step 2: *Tools > Options > Audio > Output mode settings: Select the iFi (by AMR driver) and

CHECK the boxes as per below.
Bitdepth: Automatic
Buffering: 500 milliseconds
  

  
  
*Step 3: *Tools > Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming

Select DSD over PCM (DoP)
Select DoP Format: DoP 1.0 (0xFA/0.05)
  
  

  
 Exit. You are now ready to enjoy DSD without conversion to another format on your iDSD by iFi.
  
  
 Audirvana to follow in due course....


----------



## jaywillin

ifi audio said:


> *How to take full advantage of True Native PCM/DSD/DXD playback - WINDOWS*
> 
> Before we proceed, we do apologise but we cannot answer emails on whether products by other manufacturers play 'True Native DSD.' Being part of AMR means we have a 'no comment' policy on other manufacturers. We have rec'd a 'few' emails on this question which is why we would like to state upfront to clarify.
> 
> ...


 
 question, i followed the instrunctions, i've tried the process in both jriver18, and 19, jriver shows i'm playing files in whatever resolution the file is in, its not indicating dsd, and the light on the idsd indicates the same, i can actually convert a file and get dsd, the light and jriver both indicate dsd, which does sound really good, but i really don't want to have to convert my whole library ! lol


----------



## semeniub

I was able to sub my iDSD into my main headphone setup (Audirvana+ > Kingrex Y-art usb cable and Kingrey UPower > AMI MUSIK DS5 > tube amp with Mullard NOS tubes > Audeze LCD2's).
  
 I substituted the iDSD (running on it's own battery power) for the AMI MUSIK DS5, but here the iDSD wasn't as immediately satisfying as the DS5 (and looking at the differences between the DAC's wasn't my main objective here).
  
 I then substituted the Kingrex Y-art cable and UPower that was now connected to the iDSD with a normal low level audiophile USB cable.
  
*Here was the nice surprise* - In my first impressions, I found the basic cable connected to the iDSD running on it's own battery power to sound as good as the much more expensive split USB cable with separate battery.
  
 Gives me more confidence that I can really enjoy the iDSD as is (on it's own battery power at least), and not have to worry that I'm missing something due to USB cables or noisy power making it's way from the computer's USB port.
  
 It will be interesting to hear if other users have the same experience.


----------



## iFi audio

jaywillin said:


> question, i followed the instrunctions, i've tried the process in both jriver18, and 19, jriver shows i'm playing files in whatever resolution the file is in, its not indicating dsd, and the light on the idsd indicates the same, i can actually convert a file and get dsd, the light and jriver both indicate dsd, which does sound really good, but i really don't want to have to convert my whole library ! lol


 
 Hi
  
 drop our technical people an email on: tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 with screenshots of JRMC settings. We need to check your on screen settings in JRMC.
  
 thanks


----------



## jaywillin

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> drop our technical people an email on: tech@ifi-audio.com
> 
> ...


 

 ok, will do, thanks !


----------



## Tokyolifer

semeniub said:


> It was seamless to connect to the iPhone 5S using the ONKYO HF app - now if it was only possible to stream hires music from the cloud to this app on the iPhone!


 
  
 Having some issues connecting my iPhone 5 to iDSD.  The iDSD is connected to the iPhone 5 through camera adapter / USB cable, but it doesn't seem like the iPhone recognizes iDSD, as music is played only through the iPhone speaker..  I am turning on the iDSD power before connecting it to the iPhone to makes sure that it is battery powered...Not so sure what is going on.  Any tip you can give me would be helpful.


----------



## semeniub

tokyolifer said:


> Having some issues connecting my iPhone 5 to iDSD.  The iDSD is connected to the iPhone 5 through camera adapter / USB cable, but it doesn't seem like the iPhone recognizes iDSD, as music is played only through the iPhone speaker..  I am turning on the iDSD power before connecting it to the iPhone to makes sure that it is battery powered...Not so sure what is going on.  Any tip you can give me would be helpful.


 
 I am using the Apple Lightning to USB camera adaptor to connect to the iPhone 5S. If it helps, I play music through the ONKYO HF app, and also found that Spotify works as well. My version of iOS is 7.0.4.


----------



## Pentagonal

Dear kugino, 
  
 If this helps you, I was able to locate the iDSD on their website: http://www.tweekgeek.com/ifi-audio-idsd/
  
 I recommend speaking with Michael, he is very helpful and has given me nothing but excellent service! 
  
 Best of luck,
 Pentagonal


----------



## Tokyolifer

semeniub said:


> I am using the Apple Lightning to USB camera adaptor to connect to the iPhone 5S. If it helps, I play music through the ONKYO HF app, and also found that Spotify works as well. My version of iOS is 7.0.4.


 
 Thanks.  I am using the same app, same cable and has the same OS... I wonder if it is one of the apps I have on the iPhone that are in conflict.


----------



## semeniub

tokyolifer said:


> Thanks.  I am using the same app, same cable and has the same OS... I wonder if it is one of the apps I have on the iPhone that are in conflict.


 
 An easy thing to do is plug your iDSD into someone else's iPhone or iPhone(s) - if the connection problem still exists, then maybe the iDSD or cable needs to be checked.


----------



## JWahl

cute said:


> I am using the blue USB cable supplied for the I Link from computer > I USB > Gemini cable dual output > I Purifier > I Link > Neotech NEVD-2001 BNC Cryo Digital Cable > Audio-GD NFB2 > Audioquest Colorado Interconnects > Denon 2808 > Audioquest Colorado Interconnects > Ming DA 8407 Zone 2 (Headphones)/Hafler XL 280 Zone 1 (Speakers) > Kimber PSB Extension Cable > Detachable Headphone Cables > Beyerdynamic T1, DT880 600 Ohm, DT990 600 ohm.


 
 Scratching my head a bit looking at this.  For the price of those Audioquest IC's you could get a much better quality DAC and still afford some decent IC's.  I'm using the WW Equinox 7 in my setup at about $100.  And yes, I'm upgrading my DAC soon so I don't sound like a hypocrite having IC's that cost as much as my current DAC.  Replacing it soon with an Anedio D1.  Not that I have anything against the NFB-2, I've owned 2 Audio-GD DACs myself
  
 That being said, the iFi line seems very interesting to me.  I'm planning on getting the I-link to run to the Anedio, and possibly the Gemini cable to split power from my USB battery.


----------



## Tokyolifer

semeniub said:


> An easy thing to do is plug your iDSD into someone else's iPhone or iPhone(s) - if the connection problem still exists, then maybe the iDSD or cable needs to be checked.


 
 Using the same USB cable, the iDSD works fine with my iMac.  It is either the lightning camera adapter or the Phone, I guess..  This again.


----------



## cute

IMO, the iFi Micro gears made a bigger difference than any DAC I would have purchased under $1500.  I think the combination of cables, DAC, tube amplifier, iFi gears, is giving me the best sound at the lowest cost.  The Audioquest IC's were purchased at a very low price, and they also serve my Home Theater setup.  I would say the iFi setup I am running made the biggest difference for me though!


----------



## JWahl

cute said:


> IMO, the iFi Micro gears made a bigger difference than any DAC I would have purchased under $1500.  I think the combination of cables, DAC, tube amplifier, iFi gears, is giving me the best sound at the lowest cost.  The Audioquest IC's were purchased at a very low price, and they also serve my Home Theater setup.  I would say the iFi setup I am running made the biggest difference for me though!


 
 That makes sense then.  Thanks for the feedback.  I look forward to trying the I-link and maybe Gemini in mine as well.


----------



## earwaxxer

cute said:


> IMO, the iFi Micro gears made a bigger difference than any DAC I would have purchased under $1500.  I think the combination of cables, DAC, tube amplifier, iFi gears, is giving me the best sound at the lowest cost.  The Audioquest IC's were purchased at a very low price, and they also serve my Home Theater setup.  I would say the iFi setup I am running made the biggest difference for me though!


 

 The above is in line with my expectations for the IFi iDSD. Like many have stated previously. The paradigm is shifting for digital audio sound quality/playback etc. Its not all about big beefy power supplies and the absolute shunning of op amps etc. Very interesting for sure. Kind of like the DAC du jour approach. Of course there is still room for the MSB's, EMM's, DCS's etc. etc. Mere mortals like myself will never buy one of those, not even used. - actually for full disclosure, I do own an MSB - Link DAC lll, but you know what I mean....


----------



## cute

jwahl said:


> cute said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, the iFi Micro gears made a bigger difference than any DAC I would have purchased under $1500.  I think the combination of cables, DAC, tube amplifier, iFi gears, is giving me the best sound at the lowest cost.  The Audioquest IC's were purchased at a very low price, and they also serve my Home Theater setup.  I would say the iFi setup I am running made the biggest difference for me though!
> ...


 
  
 Best setup for the Gemeni cable, is the iFi I USB with separate power and signal out.  Plus, the I Purifier made a difference in refinement going into the I Link!  Fantastic sound at a great low price!  Money well spent!


----------



## JWahl

cute said:


> Best setup for the Gemeni cable, is the iFi I USB with separate power and signal out.  Plus, the I Purifier made a difference in refinement going into the I Link!  Fantastic sound at a great low price!  Money well spent!


 
 I would if I didn't already use a USB battery for the power line.  Makes the iUSB redundant.  The iPurifier might be something to look at for the data line though.  Right now I'm using a cheapo y-split cable for the time being.


----------



## kugino

pentagonal said:


> For those concerned with shipping times, I just ordered an iDSD from TweekGeek.com and they placed me on the next shipping batch. I only need to wait 1 week as those are coming in around late January. I can't wait to get it!


 
 i ordered from them yesterday...not sure if i will be in the next batch or not since i'm not sure how many they'll receive, but hopefully i'll have mine in the next couple of weeks, too.


----------



## jaywillin

kugino said:


> i ordered from them yesterday...not sure if i will be in the next batch or not since i'm not sure how many they'll receive, but hopefully i'll have mine in the next couple of weeks, too.


 

 i got the last one, in the last batch, got here thursday


----------



## kugino

jaywillin said:


> i got the last one, in the last batch, got here thursday


 
 nice! seems like they're getting them in fairly frequently. music direct has a 4-6 week wait time...


----------



## jaywillin

kugino said:


> nice! seems like they're getting them in fairly frequently. music direct has a 4-6 week wait time...


 

 and honestly i just got it to check out dsd, i may part with this one sometime soon, if anyone has interest pm me
  
 edit:
  
 i have a commitment , thanks guys


----------



## iFi audio

tokyolifer said:


> Having some issues connecting my iPhone 5 to iDSD.  The iDSD is connected to the iPhone 5 through camera adapter / USB cable, but it doesn't seem like the iPhone recognizes iDSD, as music is played only through the iPhone speaker..  I am turning on the iDSD power before connecting it to the iPhone to makes sure that it is battery powered...Not so sure what is going on.  Any tip you can give me would be helpful.


 
 Hi
  
 Like the rest of the guys have said here. Please confirm you are indeed using an original Apple CCK/USB adapter. Only the genuine one works!


----------



## iFi audio

*iDSD is no1 seller in Japan!*
  
 Yoroshiku iFi Japan!
  
 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=649138701788542&set=a.461191017249979.95398.460963790606035&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_comment
  
 Holy cowabunga!  This really made our day!
  

If you would like to watch the e-earphone video...
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/43157048
(see 00:09:36 for the sales chart)

Note to all: around the globe, there is still a waiting list as demand continues to outstrip supply of the nano products in particular the iDSD. We simply have been unable to satisfy the exponential demand. Some countries have already pre-sold their future shipments! 
  
From all of us here at iFi, we would like to make a huge heart felt THANK YOU for your custom & patience. We truly appreciate it.


----------



## tazmo

Hi Head-Fi'ers-
  
 New member, first time poster... just bought an iDSD from MusicDirect earlier in the week and yes indeed a 4-6 week wait (ouch). Good thing I'm patient.
  
 Meanwhile a question:
  
 I saw iFI's post about how to use JRiver Media center with the iFi Nano iDSD.
  
 They enable DSD over PCM (DoP) to make it work.
  
 There is no mention of DoP on iFi's iDSD page (that I see - I could be missing it).
  
 For those folks who already have a unit, it plays "straight" DSF and DFF files right?
  
 Am I to assume JRiver (in the post about how to set it up) does the conversion?
  
 I have JRiver Media center but may also be in a situation where I won't have my iDSD connected to JRiver... hence the question.
  
Bob


----------



## jaywillin

tazmo said:


> Hi Head-Fi'ers-
> 
> New member, first time poster... just bought an iDSD from MusicDirect earlier in the week and yes indeed a 4-6 week wait (ouch). Good thing I'm patient.
> 
> ...


 

 jriver18 can/does convert/change the files only,
 jriver 19, can do that too, plus, it allows for playback in dsd, without actually changing the file format, so you can listen to your whole library without ever actually changing the file
 the idsd does no actual file conversion , it decodes files, that's my understanding, though i may be wrong


----------



## iFi audio

tazmo said:


> Hi Head-Fi'ers-
> 
> New member, first time poster... just bought an iDSD from MusicDirect earlier in the week and yes indeed a 4-6 week wait (ouch). Good thing I'm patient.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Firstly, we appreciate your patience - customer word of mouth from people like yourself we truly appreciate. It has led to strong demand for the nano iDSD - thanks to you all.
  
 So we apologise for the initial wait you have just experienced. Thankfully it is not months and months!
  
  
 Secondly, DoP is the industry standard for DSD to be transferred natively" That is, DoP does not carry out any format conversion, this transmission protocol ensures the USB Audio Data Package maintains the integrity of the DSD file as it remains unchanged.
  
 Of course upon entering the actual DAC, one should also insist that the DAC itself INTERNALLY does not manipulate the data (as some DAC chipsets convert to PCM etc). In this regard, the nano iDSD ensures the DSD file remains DSD internally. Hence, 'True Native.'
  
  
  
*Tech Background on SDIF-3 (not SPDIF!)*
DoP was devised for PCs as the original protocol is to transmit DSD is called SDIF-3: (not SPDIF bty)
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/files/1088/sdif3v10.pdf
  
This transmission standard is NOT supported by any current PC based hardware nor is it supported by iOS devices. So this is a non-starter for the real-world of computer audio users.
  
In 2012, to work around this limitation in order to transmit DSD over standard USB Audio Links, DoP was developed by a number of Companies supporting DSD.
  
DoP uses Standard USB audio as a transport for the original DSD Data. The DSD data is NEVER processed nor altered, it is simply placed into USB Audio packages and recovered on the other end. 
  
The Output Data from DoP decoding is in effect SDIF-3 Data - simply making it electrically compatible with SDIF-3 produces a true SDIF-3 Output that is a perfect replica of the original DSD/SDIF-3 data at the recording (unless processing was applied in the studio).
  
  
*Yup, iDSD uses SDIF-3 (not SPDIF)*
You will be pleased to know that internally, when a DSD signal is rec'd, the iDSD uses SDIF3 to carry the signal throughout.
  
So as you can see, the nano iDSD has serious technology going on beneath its aluminium chassis to ensure the sound quality is the very best that it can be.
  
Interestingly, there seems to be more misunderstanding in the West (while Japanese customers seem to be much more knowledgeable on the finer points of DSD-probably thanks to Sony et al).
  
We shall therefore produce a whitepaper covering these aspects in a few weeks. It will be published in the FaceBook tech notes section.
  
  
  
 thank you


----------



## kugino

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Firstly, we appreciate your patience - customer word of mouth from people like yourself we truly appreciate. It has led to strong demand for the nano iDSD - thanks to you all.
> 
> ...


 
 thanks for the clarification...those here who are interested in DSD probably know the difference between spdif and sdif-3, but it's good education nonetheless...i have an idsd coming in the next few days and am excited to hear what this little guy can do.


----------



## smial1966

iFi audio,
  
 Whilst it's good news that sales of the nano range are so brisk, please explain why UK orders still remain unfulfilled. As a British company surely pre-orders from UK nano purchasers should have received prioritization or at least equity with other countries distribution schedules, yet it seems that we're in fact last in the queue to receive our units!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> *iDSD is no1 seller in Japan!*
> 
> Yoroshiku iFi Japan!
> 
> ...


----------



## iFi audio

smial1966 said:


>


 
 Hi,
  
 1. Some countries ordered in October, some after and others way later. Some countries still wont receive until March. We dont prioritise the UK over another country or any country over any other country for that matter. It is just a straight forward queuing system.
  
 2. UK customers who pre-ordered should started to receive their units so if you pre-ordered and haven't received, just drop us an email and we'll chase that particular dealer for you. We do not have access to each and every pre-order list at the dealer level.
  
 Hope this clarifies - just drop us a PM and we'll look into it for you and give you a call back.
  
 thank you for your patience and understanding


----------



## earwaxxer

So, a question for the iFi folks - When the iDSD is receiving DSD on the front end what is available on the SPDIF output? I know its not DSD but will it be 24/192 or 24/96 PCM etc. - thanks


----------



## kugino

earwaxxer said:


> So, a question for the iFi folks - When the iDSD is receiving DSD on the front end what is available on the SPDIF output? I know its not DSD but will it be 24/192 or 24/96 PCM etc. - thanks


I believe it's 24/192 PCM.


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> So, a question for the iFi folks - When the iDSD is receiving DSD on the front end what is available on the SPDIF output? I know its not DSD but will it be 24/192 or 24/96 PCM etc. - thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 No output. 
  
 We apply NO processing or DSP to the DSD and DXD signals and DSD cannot be transmitted via SPDIF. Neither incidentally can data rates greater than 192KHz, so no output with DXD either.
  
 To have any kind of output from DSD, it would have to be transcoded to PCM. In this case it is definitely more preferable to do that in the PC (via JRMC which has this feature for example).
  
 An alternative scenario would be to use the existing SPDIF DAC would handle PCM up to 192KHz and the iDSD is used to handle DSD/DXD:
  
 - the iDSD to input DSD/DXD via USB Input to put out an analogue signal to an existing setup
 - the existing DAC receives PCM
  
 This would allow to "dip one's toe into the DSD/DXD water" without abandoning existing and preferred setups.
  
 In such a case the iDSD is connected to the PC Source and drives the existing DAC via SPDIF and both DAC's are connected to separate inputs of the Preamplifier/Amplifier or use a analogue switchbox if (for example) single input active speakers are used.
  
 PM or email us for more info for recommendations.
  
 thank you


----------



## iFi audio

........By having a decent SPDIF out on the iDSD you can use it to drive for example an existing DAC (even something super duper high-end costing £££) up to the speedlimit on that DAC and try Hi-Rez,DSD, DXD easily via the iDSD.
  
 The entry cost is only that of the iDSD, get USB to SPDIF for YOUR existing DAC as an added bonus, gratis.
  
 Hope this now makes sense why we did what we did.
  
  
  
 Of course, you need to level-match but cant beat this for an 'on-the-fly' comparison and avoid switching DACs.
  
note: Actually JRMC is pretty good at changing DSD>PCM - without impacting the SQ much. PM us for more settings info on this.


----------



## kugino

thanks for the info. it makes more sense now...i thought that there was some DSD->PCM conversion going on for digital output via SPDIF, but that seems not to be the case.


----------



## earwaxxer

Thanks as well for the info - What I'm currious about is trying to replicate what I'm doing now, which is using the Wyrd4snd ULink as a USB/SPDIF converter and having the two digital outputs - one to run a DAC for my main speakers and one to run a DAC for my subwoofer, except I would use the iDSD analog out for the mains.
  
 Currious if that can be done with the iDSD -  with say 32/384 coming in over USB to the iDSD using the iDSD analog out for the main speakers and using the SPDIF out for the subwoofer DAC. Would it downsample the 32/384 to 24/192? - thanks much for all the info -


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> Thanks as well for the info - What I'm currious about is trying to replicate what I'm doing now, which is using the Wyrd4snd ULink as a USB/SPDIF converter and having the two digital outputs - one to run a DAC for my main speakers and one to run a DAC for my subwoofer, except I would use the iDSD analog out for the mains.
> 
> Currious if that can be done with the iDSD -  with say 32/384 coming in over USB to the iDSD using the iDSD analog out for the main speakers and using the SPDIF out for the subwoofer DAC. Would it downsample the 32/384 to 24/192? - thanks much for all the info -


 
  
 Hi,
  
 SPDIF is limited to PCM and 192KHz max, so this scenario will not work at DSD or sample rates above 192KHz.

 If you do not mind our saying, but it is always easiest to integrate a subwoofer if it is supplied from speaker levels signals. Try it out and let us know.


----------



## earwaxxer

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> SPDIF is limited to PCM and 192KHz max, so this scenario will not work at DSD or sample rates above 192KHz.
> 
> _*If you do not mind our saying, but it is always easiest to integrate a subwoofer if it is supplied from speaker levels signals. Try it out and let us know.*_


 
 Agreed with above... - I dont do things the easy way though! My sub sits behind the listening area, and taking analog signal back there has never proved to be a very good sound vs. going digital over the 20ft or so that I need. No bid deal though. Many different ways to skin the proverbial cat! It will still be interesting to compare the iDSD with my current set up playing 24/192 that I am using now. Lots of toys, too little time!


----------



## smial1966

Just curious, has any UK nano purchaser received their unit yet?!?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Interesting how some American and Japanese customers have had their nano's for a couple of weeks already.


----------



## Turrican2

smial1966 said:


> Just curious, has any UK nano purchaser received their unit yet?!?  :confused_face_2:
> 
> Interesting how some American and Japanese customers have had their nano's for a couple of weeks already.




I'm waiting patiently still. If you've pre - ordered with mcru I would think you'll be likely to receive within the next week. I was informed that the shipment which left China destined for our shores was due to arrive within the past week. Not sure how long customs clearance takes.


----------



## smial1966

I pre-ordered from MCRU too when the nano was officially available, so find it strange that some overseas customers have already received their units.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


turrican2 said:


> I'm waiting patiently still. If you've pre - ordered with mcru I would think you'll be likely to receive within the next week. I was informed that the shipment which left China destined for our shores was due to arrive within the past week. Not sure how long customs clearance takes.


----------



## Rob N

I ordered from MCRU and it has shipped today


----------



## Turrican2

rob n said:


> I ordered from MCRU and it has shipped today


 
 me too, literally got the email an hour after my response to smial1966.  Might even arrive tomorrow!


----------



## smial1966

Good to hear. Though do think it's weird that UK purchasers are definitely receiving nano's around two weeks later than their American or Japanese counterparts. Larger overseas markets serviced first perchance?!? Nah, probably not according to iFi. :rolleyes:




rob n said:


> I ordered from MCRU and it has shipped today


----------



## kugino

smial1966 said:


> Good to hear. Though do think it's weird that UK purchasers are definitely receiving nano's around two weeks later than their American or Japanese counterparts. Larger overseas markets serviced first perchance?!? Nah, probably not according to iFi.


 
 could also be that overseas resellers put in their orders before the UK ones, so iFi is fulfilling those orders first. i know it stinks that you have to wait for your order, but it might not be completely or even partly iFi to blame.


----------



## earwaxxer

I thought that us 'Americans' had cornered the market on being bitchy about getting our stuff when we want it, and throw a fit when we dont get it! I guess thats not true! ... I breath a little easier!


----------



## kugino

earwaxxer said:


> I thought that us 'Americans' had cornered the market on being bitchy about getting our stuff when we want it, and throw a fit when we dont get it! I guess thats not true! ... I breath a little easier!


----------



## smial1966

That's the curse of audiophilia!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Didn't mean to bitch, just frustrated reading about how good the nano is and not having my unit yet.
  
 Quote:


earwaxxer said:


> I thought that us 'Americans' had cornered the market on being bitchy about getting our stuff when we want it, and throw a fit when we dont get it! I guess thats not true! ... I breath a little easier!


----------



## Turrican2

Mine arrived this morning. Yours shouldn't be long now


----------



## Rob N

Why does the IDSD not have fixed volume RCA outputs?


----------



## Roscoeiii

rob n said:


> Why does the IDSD not have fixed volume RCA outputs?


 
 Becauser you can just turn the volume knob all the way up (or to whatever level best suits the gain structure of your set-up). Just a guess.


----------



## analogsurviver

rob n said:


> Why does the IDSD not have fixed volume RCA outputs?


 
 I do not think they are needed by most of the prospective users - as it is, it can serve as volume control/preamp, feeding the headphone/power amplifier directly.
  
 Anyone concerned by nano's volume control integrity might simply want to turn the volume fully up to the max and then run it into "something" with volume control, if that "something" has better volume control than nano.
  
 I am amazed how much they have been able to squeeze in so small volume box; adding an additional pair of fixed output RCAs would add to the size and clutter - both highly undesirable in a predominantely portable oriented unit.
  
 My order has unfortunately been delayed - by my 1/4 century old and much in use oscilloscope finally giving up ghost.
 I need the scope in my everyday work. Otherwise, I would have been too eagerly awaiting delivery...


----------



## SpudHarris

If you guys are intending to use as a portable with idevices, what cables will you use? Am I missing something here?

I am very interested in this but not just to use at home....


----------



## kugino

spudharris said:


> If you guys are intending to use as a portable with idevices, what cables will you use? Am I missing something here?
> 
> I am very interested in this but not just to use at home....


 
 you will need an apple lightning->usb female adapter, also known as the camera connection kit (CCK). then a usb cable to connect to the idsd.
  
 i just got mine today and fired it up 10 minutes ago. listening to some of the DSD albums i have...i don't have a 1/4"->1/8" adapter yet so can't listen with some of my better headphones, but so far i like what i'm hearing through the momentums. using a trial copy of the JRiver Media Center...still on the fence whether i should buy JRiver or Audirvana Plus. i hate the user interface of JRiver...so un-mac-like. but it does a little more than audirvana, which is a true mac app.
  
 i'll play with it a bit more tonight and post some thoughts. interested to see how the coax out does...will feed into the opus.
  
 oh, and this thing is a lot smaller than i expected. i know what the dimensions say on the website, but it truly is portable.
  
 UPDATE: been playing around with it for the last couple of hours. had a problem getting DSD playback via Jriver...and Jriver looks like crap so i decided to buy Audirvana Plus.


----------



## earwaxxer

turrican2 said:


> Mine arrived this morning. Yours shouldn't be long now


 

 Well - impressions? - comparisons, subjective observations, etc.


----------



## Turrican2

earwaxxer said:


> Well - impressions? - comparisons, subjective observations, etc.




Since receiving it I've managed to spend a whole 25 mins of listening time. Kids birthday this weekend etc. However, that 25 mins was spent hooked up to my iPad listening to some excellent tunes (DSD, wave and flac) from the onkyo hf app. Sounds sublime. I'm going to try it out with my samsung s3 for an hour at lunchtime tomorrow. DSD ability aside, this dac is a great match with the k3003, the detail retrieval is outstanding. From these early impressions, I would say the ibasso dx100 (my main portable player) has the edge with percussion, it really is a bit special, at least with my phones. I'm looking forward to listening some more to the idsd and eating my words, maybe. It sits nicely along side my other ifi gear. Usual great packaging and accessories. Same bulletproof build quality I've come to expect from ifi. Fanstastic value for money.


----------



## StratocasterMan

rob n said:


> Why does the IDSD not have fixed volume RCA outputs?


 
  
 I haven't received my iDSD yet (still waiting patiently), but I agree that this is a design flaw and a feature the iDSD should have had.
  
 My FiiO E17 DAC / headphone amp has this feature and it is very useful. I'm able to use the volume control on the FiiO E17 to change the volume for my headphones without changing the volume for my speaker rig. The iDSD should have been designed with an option to output a fixed volume through the RCA outputs.


----------



## Roscoeiii

stratocasterman said:


> I haven't received my iDSD yet (still waiting patiently), but I agree that this is a design flaw and a feature the iDSD should have had.
> 
> My FiiO E17 DAC / headphone amp has this feature and it is very useful. I'm able to use the volume control on the FiiO E17 to change the volume for my headphones without changing the volume for my speaker rig. The iDSD should have been designed with an option to output a fixed volume through the RCA outputs.


 
 Eh, just set it at the level you want and rip the volume knob off. Probem solved.


----------



## kugino

i don't have music encoded in every format that the iDSD supports...like i don't have any DXD files. but some tv programs put out audio in pretty high bitrates. watching the super bowl pregame and the audio is 448kbps...i'm pumping the audio through the iDSD and sure enough, the white LED is lit up. i've never heard such awesome sounding commercials!


----------



## earwaxxer

From my experience, I have not noticied a 'significant' difference with a volume pot at full position and taking the pot out of the circuit. I do a lot of DIY stuff, and built and modded my tube preamp and experimented with such. I have, though, noticed a difference between different brands (ex. Alps vs. TKD). I wouldnt get hung up on that. When I get mine I will experiment between using the 64bit digital attenuation via JRiver vs. using the pot for volume control. It should be interesting. BTW - any idea what kind of pot is in there?


----------



## earwaxxer

Cool - thanks! - sounds like a keeper! - I'm curious as to how it will compare to my Gungnir playing 24/192. I have some expectations. Will have to wait and see...


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> From my experience, I have not noticied a 'significant' difference with a volume pot at full position and taking the pot out of the circuit. I do a lot of DIY stuff, and built and modded my tube preamp and experimented with such. I have, though, noticed a difference between different brands (ex. Alps vs. TKD). I wouldnt get hung up on that. When I get mine I will experiment between using the 64bit digital attenuation via JRiver vs. using the pot for volume control. It should be interesting. BTW - any idea what kind of pot is in there?


 
  
Hi,
  
We use a chip that combines differential input, volume control and an Amplifier all on one Chip. This volume control is similar to that in the Abbingdon Music Research AM-777.
  
The iDSD, at FULL volume, has NO resistors remaining in series with the volume control.
  
The volume works for both RCAs and Headphones. So it is a type of small pre-amp. Or turn to full volume and there will be no more resistors in the chain. Eat and cake!


----------



## soulkeeper

What`s the recommended specs for the charger?Is 5volt / 0.5A ok?
I`ve been charging it about 15 hours with a usb wall charger(5v/0.5A) and the led light is still blue (unit switched off)
Is this normal?


----------



## kugino

soulkeeper said:


> What`s the recommended specs for the charger?Is 5volt / 0.5A ok?
> I`ve been charging it about 15 hours with a usb wall charger(5v/0.5A) and the led light is still blue (unit switched off)
> Is this normal?


I've had mine plugged in for over a day and the light's been on the whole time. I'm wondering if it doesn't tell you when it's fully charged, but maybe it's trickle charging even when fully charged, so the blue light will always be on.


----------



## iFi audio

kugino said:


> I've had mine plugged in for over a day and the light's been on the whole time. I'm wondering if it doesn't tell you when it's fully charged, but maybe it's trickle charging even when fully charged, so the blue light will always be on.


 
 Hi
  
 Once the battery is full, it switches over to top-up charge to prolong the life of battery (it doesn't trickle-charge as it is a LiPo battery).
  
 You can check if it is full by switching on/off or unplug replug. If full, the light will no longer be on.
  
 This circuit means the life of the battery is maximised. With regular use, should give 3-4 years of service.


----------



## kugino

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> Once the battery is full, it switches over to top-up charge to prolong the life of battery (it doesn't trickle-charge as it is a LiPo battery).
> 
> ...


 
 thanks for the info. indeed, i turned it on and off and the light went out. 
  
 question: is the battery replaceable? so if/when the battery goes out, can we send it in for a replacement?


----------



## Watcherq

Had gotten the item last week, and finally managed to install and configure it to work on a Win 7 x64 machine with Foobar2000.
  
 So far, the sound is more energetic and airy/spacious with better instrument separation when compared with my old Meridian Explorer.  DSD sounds great and more details came out vs SDM->PCM via foobar.  Timing is very engaging and 
  
 However, there are a few minor cons and possible mis-configuration on my part.  Firstly, as I turn up and down the dial, I can hear "clicks" even though the dial is turns smoothly; this is when no music is playing.  Secondly, when starting a (new) track or jumping inside a track, there are clicks heard as well.  Starting is the most obvious but I can still hear the clicks when I jump within a track.  Thirdly, I had to configure the ASIO plugin to use DoP under the DSD Player Method.  I was thrown off when I tried ASIO native, I got an error popup saying "Sample rate of 44100 Hz not supported by this device" even when playing RBCD FLAC files.  The volume dial is also very sensitive.
  
 My equipment chain:
 Lenovo x201t -> iUSB -> Gemini cable -> iDSD -> Shure SE846


----------



## iFi audio

kugino said:


> thanks for the info. indeed, i turned it on and off and the light went out.
> 
> question: is the battery replaceable? so if/when the battery goes out, can we send it in for a replacement?


 
  
 Yes, we supply the battery. Contact us in 4 years' time!


----------



## iFi audio

watcherq said:


> Had gotten the item last week, and finally managed to install and configure it to work on a Win 7 x64 machine with Foobar2000.
> 
> So far, the sound is more energetic and airy/spacious with better instrument separation when compared with my old Meridian Explorer.  DSD sounds great and more details came out vs SDM->PCM via foobar.  Timing is very engaging and
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 If you like, drop us an email at tech@ifi-audio.com  - we'll forward it onto tech support and run through the computer software settings with you.
  
 thank you


----------



## Watcherq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you like, drop us an email at tech@ifi-audio.com  - we'll forward it onto tech support and run through the computer software settings with you.
> 
> thank you


 
 Hi, I've sent an email with screen shots of my configuration.  Minor correction; it seems that RBCD works fine with "ASIO Native" but not with DSD files.


----------



## technobear

watcherq said:


> Firstly, as I turn up and down the dial, I can hear "clicks" even though the dial is turns smoothly; this is when no music is playing.  Secondly, when starting a (new) track or jumping inside a track, there are clicks heard as well.  Starting is the most obvious but I can still hear the clicks when I jump within a track.
> .
> .
> .
> Shure SE846




The Shure SE846 has a sensitivity of 114dB/mW. That is very high and explains why you can hear these faint clicks which most users will never notice. It also explains why your volume control seems sensitive.


----------



## Watcherq

technobear said:


> The Shure SE846 has a sensitivity of 114dB/mW. That is very high and explains why you can hear these faint clicks which most users will never notice. It also explains why your volume control seems sensitive.


 
 Yep, I understand that and honestly they are not really noticeable unless you pay attention.  However, I think it may be possible to reduce or eliminate the 3-4 clicks when starting up/jumping in the track via software/firmware since it seems that the system is the one that seem to be resetting the internals.  As for the clicks when you turn the dial, that is unfortunate but not a major issue.
  
 As for the sensitivity, I hope that in the v2 of iDSD, there is a gain switch.  Right now on the Shure, between nice to uncomfortable loud to painfully loud is about 15-20 degrees turn of the knob to reach the next level.  On my Fiio X3, I would need to go, on low gain, from 15-17 to 23-25 to over 30.  On such a small knob, it is quite tricky.  Furthermore, the iDSD is using the 3.5mm plug which is meant for portable use thus IEMs with the sensitivity like Shure is expected to be used together with the iDSD.
  
 Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with the iDSD, but these issues should be looked into and refined in the next version of the device.


----------



## Watcherq

Ok, got some updates:
  
 The very soft clicking goes away when I choose WASAPI instead of ASIO.  However on foobar, there is no place to configure DSD playback for WASAP; the SACD plugin seems to be having only ASIO option.
  
 I'm still testing the volume knob...


----------



## StratocasterMan

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We use a chip that combines differential input, volume control and an Amplifier all on one Chip. This volume control is similar to that in the Abbingdon Music Research AM-777.
> 
> ...


 
  
*How much voltage does the iDSD output through the RCA jacks when it is turned to full volume?* I can't seem to find this spec. It really should have been designed with the option of outputting a fixed voltage through the RCA outputs so that the volume control would only affect the headphone output while providing a line-level out via RCA at the same time for speaker amps. The RCA output should have had a fixed option, so that folks would only have to use their speaker amplifier volume control to control the volume of their speakers.
  
 Since the volume control seems to affect the RCA outputs, it creates a problem of not overdriving speaker amplifiers that are accepting an RCA input. When a person uses the volume control to turn up the volume in their headphones plugged into the iDSD, they apparently have also just changed the voltage being output through the RCA outputs to their speaker amplifier. Any changes made to the volume control for headphone listening apparently will also have an effect on the voltage being sent out of the RCA outputs to the speaker amplifier. *This creates a problem of overdriving the speaker amplifier when one only wants to change headphone volume.*
  
 Since the volume control affects the RCA outputs, what is the range? What is the variable voltage output range of the RCA outputs? *With the volume control at max, what is the RCA output voltage? *I would really like to know that particular spec...
  
 Let me try to describe the situation... Ideally, the iDSD is connected to my computer all the time. I'm using the RCA jacks to output from the iDSD to my speaker amplifier, and I'm also plugging my headphones directly into the iDSD. I should be able to use the volume control on the iDSD to change the volume in my headphones. However, when I turn on my speaker amplifier later to listen to my stereo, my speaker amplifier should not have been affected. The only thing that should be controlling my speaker volume is my speaker amplifier, not the changes I made to the iDSD volume control because I just wanted to change my headphone volume with the iDSD volume control, not the output voltage from the RCA outputs of the iDSD to my speaker amplifier.
  
*There should be an option which lets the volume control of the iDSD change the volume of the headphone output without affecting the RCA output voltage to my speaker amplifier! The iDSD should be able to provide a constant voltage "line-out" signal through the RCA outputs that is not affected by the volume control.*


----------



## kugino

stratocasterman said:


> *How much voltage does the iDSD output through the RCA jacks when it is turned to full volume?* I can't seem to find this spec. It really should have been designed with the option of outputting a fixed voltage through the RCA outputs so that the volume control would only affect the headphone output while providing a line-level out via RCA at the same time for speaker amps. The RCA output should have had a fixed option, so that folks would only have to use their speaker amplifier volume control to control the volume of their speakers.
> 
> Since the volume control seems to affect the RCA outputs, it creates a problem of not overdriving speaker amplifiers that are accepting an RCA input. When a person uses the volume control to turn up the volume in their headphones plugged into the iDSD, they apparently have also just changed the voltage being output through the RCA outputs to their speaker amplifier. Any changes made to the volume control for headphone listening apparently will also have an effect on the voltage being sent out of the RCA outputs to the speaker amplifier. *This creates a problem of overdriving the speaker amplifier when one only wants to change headphone volume.*
> 
> ...


 
 maybe it's just me, but i find your use of bold and your repeating the same thing a dozen times to be in poor taste. the whole tone of this post is poor form. if you don't like the product, don't buy it. simple.


----------



## StratocasterMan

I bought one, because I like cool toys, but I also feel obligated to point out the basic design flaws of the device.


----------



## iFi audio

stratocasterman said:


> *How much voltage does the iDSD output through the RCA jacks when it is turned to full volume?* I can't seem to find this spec. It really should have been designed with the option of outputting a fixed voltage through the RCA outputs so that the volume control would only affect the headphone output while providing a line-level out via RCA at the same time for speaker amps. The RCA output should have had a fixed option, so that folks would only have to use their speaker amplifier volume control to control the volume of their speakers.
> 
> Since the volume control seems to affect the RCA outputs, it creates a problem of not overdriving speaker amplifiers that are accepting an RCA input. When a person uses the volume control to turn up the volume in their headphones plugged into the iDSD, they apparently have also just changed the voltage being output through the RCA outputs to their speaker amplifier. Any changes made to the volume control for headphone listening apparently will also have an effect on the voltage being sent out of the RCA outputs to the speaker amplifier. *This creates a problem of overdriving the speaker amplifier when one only wants to change headphone volume.*
> 
> Since the volume control affects the RCA outputs, what is the range? What is the variable voltage output range of the RCA outputs? With the volume control at max, what is the RCA output voltage? I would really like to know that particular spec...


 
 Hi,
  
 Please see below reply from Thorsten Loesch, Head of R&D (AMR/iFi):
  
 > How much voltage does the iDSD output through the RCA jacks when it is turned to full volume?

1.8V. 

> It really should have been designed to output a fixed voltage through the RCA outputs so that the volume control 
> would only affect the headphone output while providing a line-level out via RCA at the same time for speaker amps. 
> The RCA output should have been fixed, not variable.

 We have received quite a number of iDAC customers who complained that the line outputs (which was designed following indeed this concept) were fixed and the volume control worked only on the Headphones, which forced them to use adapters from the headphone outputs to get volume control on the line levels.

 This was presumably due to the use with active speakers or in other kinds of systems lacking a volume control.

 As a result we decided to offer on all future iFi Products with Volume control so that it operates on both line and headphone outputs, with minimal compromise to the sound quality of the line out. In the iDSD nano we use modern, highly-integrated circuits in the stage.

 The actual Volume control Potentiometer is not part of the signal path, but instead varies a DC voltage applied to an AD converter which in turn sends the position of the pot, derived from DC voltage to a Microprocessor. The Microprocessor then controls a 64 Step attenuator which form an integral part of the output stage. 

 The complete output stage combines a differential input and lowpass filter, a 64 step stepped attenuator and a Output Amplifier/Driver. It allows both inputs from the DAC and outputs to be direct coupled (no coupling capacitors).

 Due to the high output current capacity designed into the output amplifier it can drive headphones directly with very low distortion. It can drive 700mV into 16 Ohm with 0.005% Distortion, at higher load impedances, especially at line output loads of a few KOhm or more, distortion is vanishingly low.

 To illustrate:

 DAC Chip  -> DC coupled to ->  Filter -> Stepped Attenuator -> Amplifier DC coupled to Headphone Jack or RCA Jack

 If the Volume control is turned to the maximum this is switched to:

 DAC Chip  -> DC coupled to ->  Filter -> Amplifier DC coupled to Headphone Jack or RCA Jack

 This is about as minimal a circuit as possible and has as little impact on the sound quality from the DAC as possible and when the stepped attenuator is advanced to maximum the signal path no longer includes it.
  
 To add a fixed output would have meant to add a lot more circuitry in the audio-path which could at best not have improved the line out over what is in place and made the headphone one worse.

 Or we could have "faked" a fixed output by detecting the switch-over between line and headphone and then setting the output automatically to maximum and depriving anyone who actually wants a variable line out of that feature.

 So we feel our choice offers the best compromise between features and sound quality, at the cost of the user having to turn the volume control to the maximum if requiring a "fixed" line output.


----------



## earwaxxer

To add to the above, it also seems logical to me to have a pot on the line out as well as the headphone out due to the nature of not being able to use a digital volume control with DSD 1bit data stream. Currently I use JRiver's 64bit digital volume control for PCM, but it is my understanding that I will not have the option of using it when playing DSD native.


----------



## WCDchee

stratocasterman said:


> *How much voltage does the iDSD output through the RCA jacks when it is turned to full volume?* I can't seem to find this spec. It really should have been designed with the option of outputting a fixed voltage through the RCA outputs so that the volume control would only affect the headphone output while providing a line-level out via RCA at the same time for speaker amps. The RCA output should have had a fixed option, so that folks would only have to use their speaker amplifier volume control to control the volume of their speakers.
> 
> Since the volume control seems to affect the RCA outputs, it creates a problem of not overdriving speaker amplifiers that are accepting an RCA input. When a person uses the volume control to turn up the volume in their headphones plugged into the iDSD, they apparently have also just changed the voltage being output through the RCA outputs to their speaker amplifier. Any changes made to the volume control for headphone listening apparently will also have an effect on the voltage being sent out of the RCA outputs to the speaker amplifier. *This creates a problem of overdriving the speaker amplifier when one only wants to change headphone volume.*
> 
> ...




I'm sorry but I don't quite understand your concern here. Why would adjusting the volume with the volume knob cause an overdriving of the speaker amplifier? I have tested the iDSD out and I believe that a quick listen would reveal that at maximum volumes, the line out amplitude is really not that large that it would blow out a speaker amplifier.

Besides, no offense but why is it so important that the headphone out volume be independant of that of the RCA line out? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I definitely cannot see myself listening to music through both the headphones and the speakers at the same time, and I am sure most others do not too! As such, you simply have to spend 5 seconds to adjust the volume knob before you listen each time (something you have to do anyways considering that the volume knob is also the on/off switch).


----------



## Roscoeiii

watcherq said:


> Yep, I understand that and honestly they are not really noticeable unless you pay attention.  However, I think it may be possible to reduce or eliminate the 3-4 clicks when starting up/jumping in the track via software/firmware since it seems that the system is the one that seem to be resetting the internals.  As for the clicks when you turn the dial, that is unfortunate but not a major issue.
> 
> As for the sensitivity, I hope that in the v2 of iDSD, there is a gain switch.  Right now on the Shure, between nice to uncomfortable loud to painfully loud is about 15-20 degrees turn of the knob to reach the next level.  On my Fiio X3, I would need to go, on low gain, from 15-17 to 23-25 to over 30.  On such a small knob, it is quite tricky.  Furthermore, the iDSD is using the 3.5mm plug which is meant for portable use thus IEMs with the sensitivity like Shure is expected to be used together with the iDSD.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with the iDSD, but these issues should be looked into and refined in the next version of the device.




Sonically how does the iDSD compare to the X3?

Just got 846s myself so very interested in your impressions.


----------



## Roscoeiii

And that 1.8V max output is below the very common 2V output of most CD players and DACs. iFi see to have made excellent design choices in my opinion. I am more and more impressed by this device.


----------



## soulkeeper

ifi audio said:


> Due to the high output current capacity designed into the output amplifier it can drive headphones directly with very low distortion. It can drive 700mV into 16 Ohm with 0.005% Distortion, at higher load impedances, especially at line output loads of a few KOhm or more, distortion is vanishingly low.


 
  
  
 Any more detailed info about headphone output power in different loads?
  
 I think it's 130mW - 16 Ohm
        
                    80mW - 32 Ohm
  
 Is this correct?
  
 Any info with other loads ? 50 -120 -300 Ohm.
  
 Thanks for all your replies you are giving!


----------



## StratocasterMan

wcdchee said:


> I'm sorry but I don't quite understand your concern here. Why would adjusting the volume with the volume knob cause an overdriving of the speaker amplifier? I have tested the iDSD out and I believe that a quick listen would reveal that at maximum volumes, the line out amplitude is really not that large that it would blow out a speaker amplifier.
> 
> Besides, no offense but why is it so important that the headphone out volume be independant of that of the RCA line out? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I definitely cannot see myself listening to music through both the headphones and the speakers at the same time, and I am sure most others do not too! As such, you simply have to spend 5 seconds to adjust the volume knob before you listen each time (something you have to do anyways considering that the volume knob is also the on/off switch).


 
  
 I'm not concerned about listening to headphones and speakers at the same time. That isn't the concern. From the response above, it does sound like iFi has put quite a bit of thought into the issue.
  
 If I am understanding things correctly, it is necessary to set the volume control of the iDSD on maximum to get the proper output from the RCA outs. Apparently, this is 1.8V. That is a little less than what seems to be the accepted standard of 2.0V, although in reality, I don't think a standard really exists. That means that the user must have a more powerful speaker amplifier to obtain the same results than if the output was 2.0V, because the speaker amplifier is receiving a slightly weaker signal than what I would call normal.
  
 It also means the user must constantly remember to unplug their headphones from the the iDSD when switching from headphones to speakers and vice versa. If one wishes to use their speakers, it will be necessary to turn the volume control on the iDSD to max to obtain 1.8V output through the RCA jacks, which is probably at best on the low side. Doing this without unplugging headphones (or while wearing headphones) means that the iDSD headphone amplifier will now be outputting the maximum headphone volume it can output.
  
 Anyone who left their headphones plugged into the iDSD on their last listening session must not forget to unplug them before setting the iDSD volume to maximum in order to use their speakers.


----------



## Turrican2

stratocasterman said:


> It also means the user must constantly remember to unplug their headphones from the the iDSD when switching from headphones to speakers and vice versa. If one wishes to use their speakers, it will be necessary to turn the volume control on the iDSD to max to obtain 1.8V output through the RCA jacks, which is probably at best on the low side. Doing this without unplugging headphones (or while wearing headphones) means that the iDSD headphone amplifier will now be outputting the maximum headphone volume it can output.
> 
> Anyone who left their headphones plugged into the iDSD on their last listening session must not forget to unplug them before setting the iDSD volume to maximum in order to use their speakers.


 
  
 This is a classic case of you cannot please all the people all the time.  The explanation by the AMR tech clearly shows they have thought about this from a technical / sound quality perspective.  Given that the headphone socket is next to the volume / on switch it shouldn't really be difficult to realise you still have your phones hooked up  Just like when you want to run it off battery power, you need to remember to unplug the usb cable before you turn it on.  After a while it will become second nature and for a product as versatile/tiny and inexpensive as this I think they made some smart choices.


----------



## Roscoeiii

stratocasterman said:


> I'm not concerned about listening to headphones and speakers at the same time. That isn't the concern. From the response above, it does sound like iFi has put quite a bit of thought into the issue.
> 
> If I am understanding things correctly, it is necessary to set the volume control of the iDSD on maximum to get the proper output from the RCA outs. Apparently, this is 1.8V. That is a little less than what seems to be the accepted standard of 2.0V, although in reality, I don't think a standard really exists. That means that the user must have a more powerful speaker amplifier to obtain the same results than if the output was 2.0V, because the speaker amplifier is receiving a slightly weaker signal than what I would call normal.
> 
> ...




I wouldn't worry about 1.8V being too low. But it should as your "overloading my speakers" concern to rest. Actually in most speaker setups by far having too much gain is more of an issue than not having enough. Often the only case that a preamp is adding gain is when it is getting a low voltage signal from a phono stage. For the types of outputs from CD players and DAC (incl the iDSD 1.8V) a preamp is attenuating a signal. 

However, if the hassle of unplugging a headphone and adjusting the volume control is such a big concern to you, I have a solution that I know would be willing to accommodate: 

Buy another iDSD.


----------



## kugino

stratocasterman said:


> I already bought the product. I'm trying to get people to understand the possible weaknesses in the product. I have purchased this product, and I am suggesting improvements.
> 
> Perhaps you should learn to capitalize your sentences. In that way, you may be judged as less of a moron.


 
 have the iDSD and like it for what it is. understand its strengths and its weaknesses...and pose questions here if i'm uncertain of something. but i don't presume to tell the manufacturer how they should develop their products and tell them what the device SHOULD have or what it SHOULD be. and i certainly don't try to get my point across by bolding everything, which, IMO, is poor form.


----------



## Dixter

Interesting with all the back and forth banter here about the HO vs LO and how its controlled...    Just yesterday I looked up the Texas Instrument data sheet (BurrBrown) because I wanted to see how the device handle's DSD and the other formats and to look at the output power specs....     It takes a while to read but everything that is in the IDSD is covered in the spec sheet...  there isn't much more for the designers to add besides a good power supply and the interface to control this chip...and a housing...   
 The DAC chip does it all....  including the output volume settings...     in other words... as nice as the iDSD is, its still just an implementation of an advanced off the shelf DAC...   
 Now just enjoy what ifi has brought to us all..


----------



## analogsurviver

dixter said:


> Interesting with all the back and forth banter here about the HO vs LO and how its controlled...    Just yesterday I looked up the Texas Instrument data sheet (BurrBrown) because I wanted to see how the device handle's DSD and the other formats and to look at the output power specs....     It takes a while to read but everything that is in the IDSD is covered in the spec sheet...  there isn't much more for the designers to add besides a good power supply and the interface to control this chip...and a housing...
> The DAC chip does it all....  including the output volume settings...     in other words... as nice as the iDSD is, its still just an implementation of an advanced off the shelf DAC...
> Now just enjoy what ifi has brought to us all..


 
 +1. I remember seeing this DAC chip in one of the mails from TI not that long ago, wishing at the time somebody will use it in something that does not cost an arm and a leg.
  
 Regardless how one feels regarding non fixed RCAs out , volume control, etc; there are numerous possibilities for potentiometers alone, some mentioned here http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=180948 ; some are priced above the ifi nano - and have yet to be built into a circuit of one sort or another...
  
 Whatever defficiences nano might have - check the measurements of headphones and IEMs and weigh if an odd
 0.000X % of distortion that might be creeping in here or there is going to be audible. For one thing, it does have VERY low output impedance; this is great as a headphone amp, but helps enormously not to act as a compressor
 when driving power amplifiers. Best DACs have long ago (decades...) figured out really low output impedance is the only way to handle dynamic range of CD (96.X dB) - and it is even more important with higher resolutions that achieve 120 dB and above - all of which are supported by nano. Inserting an usual line preamp between these low output impedance DACs and power amps will ALWAYS degrade the sound, no matter how highly regarded might that line preamp be otherwise - by constricting dynamic range. Speaker systems likely to reveal this compression are of necessity large and $$$$ - better headphones/IEMs should not have such limitations and are affordable to much more people.  
  
 My opinion ifi has done great in this case - it supports all the HiRez likely to be made gradually available during its lifetime, is really portable, drives anything you might use it with ( with the exception of the most difficult cans, such as AKG K 1000 and/or electrostatics ) with aplomb, works well at home, IF used correctly (on internal battery) avoids most of the powering issues of digital gear - and costs less than cable from A to B many users use - so, what is not to like ? Even equipment costing 100 times as much as nano still has to involve some compromise(s) ...


----------



## iFi audio

stratocasterman said:


> I'm not concerned about listening to headphones and speakers at the same time. That isn't the concern. From the response above, it does sound like iFi has put quite a bit of thought into the issue.
> 
> If I am understanding things correctly, it is necessary to set the volume control of the iDSD on maximum to get the proper output from the RCA outs. Apparently, this is 1.8V. That is a little less than what seems to be the accepted standard of 2.0V, although in reality, I don't think a standard really exists. That means that the user must have a more powerful speaker amplifier to obtain the same results than if the output was 2.0V, because the speaker amplifier is receiving a slightly weaker signal than what I would call normal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Drop us a PM regarding the dealer from whom you purchased the iDSD.
  
 We do appreciate your using some very high-end IEMs with the iDSD - no guarantees but we may be able to arrange for an attenuator that suits your needs.
  
 We can but try.
  
 Thank you to others who chimed in - all this feedback is really appreciated.


----------



## iFi audio

dixter said:


> Interesting with all the back and forth banter here about the HO vs LO and how its controlled...    Just yesterday I looked up the Texas Instrument data sheet (BurrBrown) because I wanted to see how the device handle's DSD and the other formats and to look at the output power specs....     It takes a while to read but everything that is in the IDSD is covered in the spec sheet...  there isn't much more for the designers to add besides a good power supply and the interface to control this chip...and a housing...
> The DAC chip does it all....  including the output volume settings...     in other words... as nice as the iDSD is, its still just an implementation of an advanced off the shelf DAC...
> Now just enjoy what ifi has brought to us all..


 
 Hi,
  
 Nice work, close but some small misinterpretations:
  
*Burr Brown + Analogue Vol = iFi's pain, customer's sonic gain*
  The Volume control in the DAC Chip only operates for PCM data up to 192KHz. Past that, at AMR/iFi we do not "like" digital volume controls, period. Despite the best marketing attempts to "talk up" Digital Volume Controls (which are "free" as in "free beer"! because its built into the chip  and so free to use to any designer), one cannot get past the fact that for each 6dB attenuation you lose 1-bit of resolution.

  
 It does not matter if the volume control itself operates in 32-Bit or 64-Bit, in the playback software or in the DAC itself. In many cases even systems with optimal arrangement of gain run with 20dB or more attenuation for normal listening levels, a 16-Bit (CD-Standard) audio signal would be degraded to 12...13-Bit levels, which by comparison makes MP3 sound great. And High Resolution Files would suffer even greater degradation.
  
 Therefore, in the iDSD, we make no use whatsoever of this digital volume control, as it would not work for 352.8/384KHz and DSD and because it would noticeably degrade the sound quality. In fact, our choice of the specific Burr-Brown Chip we use, is in a large degree because we wished to avoid DACs that convert DSD internally to PCM so that a digital filtering and volume control can be used (AKM, AD, Cirrus Logic, ESS, Wolfson Micro). Of course we also avoid the loss in resolution from digital volume controls to boot.
  
 Instead the iDSD uses a balanced analogue stepped attenuator after the DAC and lowpass filter but before the output stage to control volume. Thus the full resolution from the DAC is preserved, no matter what the volume setting. Of course, the circuit's self-noise remains, which is another separate issue*, but is one of the reasons why we suggest to add an in-line attenuator for extremely sensitive headphones, instead of dialing down gain (which cannot reduce the circuit's self-noise)...this is a major issue that is oft overlooked.
  
 It may also be worth mentioning that in addition to good power supplies** good clocks*** are needed. In order to handle DSD and DXD/384KHz on the Burr-Brown chip, a lot of custom design and software design is needed. The Burr-Brown chip has totally separate Digital signal paths (including clocks!) for DSD, DXD and PCM and needs much programming to work.
  
 Equally the USB solution must decode DSD, DXD and PCM very differently, to feed the DAC the correct Data in each mode. This is one of the reasons why this excellent chip is often overlooked. It takes effort and higher costs.
  
*ESS/XMOS is the easy "go to"*
 The stock XMOS solution (which is nowadays essentially the main "go-to" for USB Audio) only supports DACs that have the same Pins for PCM and DSD and automatically select between DSD and PCM. This generally means ESS Chips. These require no work whatsoever to get DSD and DXD to work with an XMOS USB Audio solution. 
  
It literally means take the stock XMOS schematic and copy/paste, then take the ESS reference design for the chip used and add the analogue stage of choice from the options ESS suggests and copy/paste again. The main "design" input becomes which particular Op-Amp-Chip to select (Burr Brown "SoundPlus", New Japan Radio "Muses" or whatever else is liked). The stock XMOS code incorporates a digital volume control that reacts to the PC's volume control and local pins connected to push-buttons, the only change needed is to change the Manufacturer name and to recompile the Firmware. Voila, you have just made a seemingly very advanced DAC.
  
  This route was actually the first thing we tried (hey, it was fast 'n easy), but we did not find the sonic results too convincing and hence looked at other solutions for the iDSD, which resulted in greater complexity and cost and needed extra development time. As AMR were among the first companies to ship a customised XMOS USB Audio Solution in the AMR DP-777 (in May 2011) we have been quite intimate with the XMOS solutions, but even so the software development took over 6 months.

 There you have it - a brief history of how and why we arrived at the tech specs behind the nano iDSD and why the iDSD is “quite different” from many of the current “cookie-cutter" XMOS/ESS designs.
  

  
  
*The iDSD’s self-noise levels are comparable possibly even better than the other very nice products in its product class, such as the Resonessence Labs Herus/Concero range or the Audioquest Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, LH-labs Geek Out etc.
  
** We do a bit of cheating in the iDSD Nano by running DAC and Output stage directly from the LiPo Battery which is almost as quiet and has nearly as low output impedance as our iUSB Power in the micro range.
  
*** We again "cheat" here by avoiding so-called "Femto Clocks" (they are usually specified for Jitter/Phase noise from 12KHz - 1MHz, where any proper crystal oscillator also has "femto seconds" of phase noise). Instead we use proper crystal oscillators that offer much lower audio band (20Hz-20KHz) jitter/phase noise, which is what matters for audio (read: main audible band), compared to many "Femto Clocks".


----------



## earwaxxer

My order was shipped yesterday - less than 3 weeks after I ordered it from Music Direct - not bad,,,,,


----------



## earwaxxer

BTW - kudos to iFi for providing so much information about their kit! They must be quite confident in their design and specifically the custom programming etc, that their ideas will not be easily copied (stolen). For us hobbyists we drink up as much info as we can get to learn more about our passion.


----------



## Watcherq

After a short exchange of emails with iFi technical support, my nano iDSD will be RMA'ed tomorrow.  I brought the device down to the shop where I had bought it.  30 secs of testing by the staff confirmed that there is an issue with my volume knob.
  
 Someone asked me to compare it to my Fiio X3.  I will give a short comparison next week.


----------



## SiGiE

I just got to know about the iFi Audio Nano iDSD from a friend, the other day.  What? A DAC with a Battery when paired with my iPhone5 will do PCM, DSD, and DXD.  Really?! For just 2 bills??!! Is it April Fools Day, Already???!!!
  
 I phoned our local Audio Shop to check, and they did have the iDSD on DEMO. Out of curiosity, I dropped-by. 
  
 Connection:
 My iPhone5 with Onkyo HF Player  > Apple Camera Connection Kit > iFi Audio iDSD > a Custom Audio RCA to RSA Balanced cable> Ray Samuel Audio Intruder (balanced-in) > CUSTOM 20awg Pure Silver 7NUPOCC cable (balanced-out) > Audeze LCD-XC.  
  
 Music Format: DSD.  Sample Rate 5.64MHz.  
  
 Took just a few songs, before I caught myself smiling like a fool.  Took-out just 2 bills from my wallet, and left for home with a  Shiny New iFi Audio Nano iDSD. 
  
 Reaching home, I unplugged the iPhone then connected the iDSD & RSA Intruder to my MAC with Media Center 19.  
  
 Music Format: DSD/DXD  Sample Rate 384KHz/64bit   
  
 For the next few days, my Conductor finally gets to take a short Break from Desktop duties.   My iFi Audio Nano iDSD and RSA Intruder will do double shifts: Portable-Daytime & Desktop-Evenings.    Thanks iFi!


----------



## techfish

I have a question regarding it's abilities to bitstream from PC to receiver. So I'd like to plug this into my computer via USB and bitsream dolby digital or dts content to my receiver for it to do the processing. Will this device do that via the digital output? Sorry if noob question.


----------



## kugino

techfish said:


> I have a question regarding it's abilities to bitstream from PC to receiver. So I'd like to plug this into my computer via USB and bitsream dolby digital or dts content to my receiver for it to do the processing. Will this device do that via the digital output? Sorry if noob question.


The coax out can push 24/192 to your DAC of choice...I don't think it will do multichannel, though. But the guys at ifi can give a better answer.


----------



## Roscoeiii

So, even if I may not be able to play hi-res files, is it possible to use the iDSD without installing a driver. Have a very restrictive IT dept. at work and doubt they will go for letting me install a driver. Don't get me started on these guys...


----------



## iFi audio

roscoeiii said:


> So, even if I may not be able to play hi-res files, is it possible to use the iDSD without installing a driver. Have a very restrictive IT dept. at work and doubt they will go for letting me install a driver. Don't get me started on these guys...


 
 Hi,
  
 This is unrelated to the iDSD:
  
 OS X and Linux are USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant with driver built-in = no driver required.
  
 Win is needs driver to be USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant = need iFi driver.
  
 Full info+driver here
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/en/download.html
  
 best regards


----------



## koolas

Will I be able to use iDSD with USB 2.0 cable, i.e. can I connect iDSD to USB 2.0 port of my laptop?


----------



## kugino

roscoeiii said:


> So, even if I may not be able to play hi-res files, is it possible to use the iDSD without installing a driver. Have a very restrictive IT dept. at work and doubt they will go for letting me install a driver. Don't get me started on these guys...


 
 i'm guessing you're on a windows machine at work? if so, i'm not sure what to tell you.
  
 if you're on a mac, you might need to install software that will play flac/DSD files if that's what you're going to listen to. if you're just going to use itunes, then plug and play with the idsd.


----------



## kugino

koolas said:


> Will I be able to use iDSD with USB 2.0 cable, i.e. can I connect iDSD to USB 2.0 port of my laptop?


 
 yes. that's what the idsd does.


----------



## earwaxxer

I think what he was getting at is that the USB on the iDSD is apparently 3.0. Yes they are all backward compatible with 2.0.


----------



## koolas

earwaxxer said:


> I think what he was getting at is that the USB on the iDSD is apparently 3.0. Yes they are all backward compatible with 2.0.




Exactly, I was asking if iDSD only supports USB 3.0 or would it also work with 2.0. So, are you sure of that?


----------



## Dixter

Yes,  I can confirm that it works well with 2.0 too....


----------



## Watcherq

I can double confirm that since I was listening to it on two devices that only have USB 2.0 ports, namely ThinkPad X201t and ThinkPad 2


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> Will I be able to use iDSD with USB 2.0 cable, i.e. can I connect iDSD to USB 2.0 port of my laptop?


 
 Yes, correct!


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> I think what he was getting at is that the USB on the iDSD is apparently 3.0. Yes they are all backward compatible with 2.0.


 
 Hi,
  
 This is for all USB 3.0 ports. This is the de facto standard so nothing to do with the iDSD as such,


----------



## iFi audio

techfish said:


> I have a question regarding it's abilities to bitstream from PC to receiver. So I'd like to plug this into my computer via USB and bitsream dolby digital or dts content to my receiver for it to do the processing. Will this device do that via the digital output? Sorry if noob question.


 
 Hi,
  
 The answer is "depends" (ie. subject to the playback software used - it needs to be able to "override" Windows/OS X own settings for Bit-streaming - only JRMC does that. We would not really use his as the main reason for a purchase. As a bonus, sure.

 Try it and let us know how you get on.


----------



## koolas

Another question. I was thinking and thinking and thinking and I can't decide. I have Pan Am on Mullards and I at times I am maybe not disappointed, but not 100% happy with it's built-in DAC. I was considering buying CLAS -dB and as an upgrade, but then I see this iDSD on ebay at very nice price and I read it's specs and I read "it sounds musical" (for comparison DAC in PanAm sounds "digital") and then it's HiRez and DSD and DXD, so I got very interested. It is more than half price of CLAS -dB, and more than half price of Pan Am, so I don't know should I expect it being worse or better? Note that I am not very interested in the amp stage, but only DAC. If connected it to Pan Am would I hear upgrade? I would certainly gain DSD and 192 support, but will it sound good, i.e. better than Pan Am's DAC?


----------



## earwaxxer

Got the iDSD today - some initial impressions.... I'm listening to The Beatles 1 album. Source is redbook ripped to hard drive, using JRiver with output set to DSD 5.6 (DSD over DoP). Volume disabled. Using the iDSD volume control running directly to my Emotiva XPA-2. First impression was that the vocals are shockingly realistic! Very intimate. Like I have never heard these songs before (I have heard them countless times). The subtleties to Paul and John's voices like I have not heard before. How they trail off on a note etc. Lets talk about PRAT. The timing is so good that it almost sounds like the songs are slower than I am used to. With Ringos drums I can hear just how gently he's tapping the skins on 'Hey Jude'. - This sounds NOTHING like the native 16/44.1. - Very impressed - much more tinkering to do for sure. BTW - its not just the mids, the bass is also very good. - more later....


----------



## earwaxxer

Question for the iFi folks - is there a problem driving the RCA's and the headphone out at the same time? What I'm thinking about is taking that headphone out and using it for my sub. I may have to amplify it in stages but that would be ok, I'm dong that now. - thanks


----------



## koolas

earwaxxer said:


> Got the iDSD today - some initial impressions.... I'm listening to The Beatles 1 album. Source is redbook ripped to hard drive, using JRiver with output set to DSD 5.6 (DSD over DoP). Volume disabled. Using the iDSD volume control running directly to my Emotiva XPA-2. First impression was that the vocals are shockingly realistic! Very intimate. Like I have never heard these songs before (I have heard them countless times). The subtleties to Paul and John's voices like I have not heard before. How they trail off on a note etc. Lets talk about PRAT. The timing is so good that it almost sounds like the songs are slower than I am used to. With Ringos drums I can hear just how gently he's tapping the skins on 'Hey Jude'. - This sounds NOTHING like the native 16/44.1. - Very impressed - much more tinkering to do for sure. BTW - its not just the mids, the bass is also very good. - more later....




So you basically say that iDSD outperformed your Gungnir?


----------



## earwaxxer

koolas said:


> So you basically say that iDSD outperformed your Gungnir?


 

 Absolutely - no contest. I have stated before, that I have not been 'satisfied' with the Gungnir sound. It was hard for me to put my finger on it, except that the sound was too shouty and 'in your face', especially through the balanced output, to my Emotiva. It was a hard sound to relax to. The iDSD sounds completely different, at least when playing upsampled redbook to DSD. The Gungnir did sound better when it was fed high res (24/192) data, with a min phase filter applied. No doubt about that. The iDSD is just very enjoyable to listen to, even when I wasnt in a particular mood to listen to music. So far so good. I have had the Gungnir in and out of my system MANY times. Sometimes I put it back in, and I think "this is good, whats wrong with me"? Its not long though before the fatigue sets in. I thought I was a fan of the AK chip sound. It's in my Transporter and my Gungnir. I dont think so now....


----------



## earwaxxer

Another question for the iFi folks... So, does the iDSD 'charge' whenever its plugged into an active USB port? Do I have to take any special consideration about it being/getting charged? I could leave it plugged into a laptop for a charge once in a while if it needs that.


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> Question for the iFi folks - is there a problem driving the RCA's and the headphone out at the same time? What I'm thinking about is taking that headphone out and using it for my sub. I may have to amplify it in stages but that would be ok, I'm dong that now. - thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Connecting headphone disconnects the line out. Separate circuitry.


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> Another question for the iFi folks... So, does the iDSD 'charge' whenever its plugged into an active USB port? Do I have to take any special consideration about it being/getting charged? I could leave it plugged into a laptop for a charge once in a while if it needs that.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Please refer to the manual for diagram/explanation but:
  
 If the iDSD is linked to the USB port before turning on it will be in USB Power/Desktop mode use USB Power to charge/top-up charge the battery all the time - the DAC and analogue stage still run directly on the Battery though, but the battery is maintained at optimum voltage by the charger.
  
 If the iDSD is turned on before being linked to a USB port it is in Portable/Battery mode and USB power is disconnected internally. In this case and if the battery is discharged and if the USB Port can supply enough current to charge (meaning not iPhone, iPad, iPod or'droid phone) the iDSD will revert to USB Power/Desktop mode transparently or if no charge current can be drawn and the battery is flat it will shut down until it can recharge.
  
  
 As the batteries used do not age due to cycling either way of doing things is fine. The battery is fully-protected against over discharge and overcharge, inherently.
  
 thank you


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> Another question. I was thinking and thinking and thinking and I can't decide. I have Pan Am on Mullards and I at times I am maybe not disappointed, but not 100% happy with it's built-in DAC. I was considering buying CLAS -dB and as an upgrade, but then I see this iDSD on ebay at very nice price and I read it's specs and I read "it sounds musical" (for comparison DAC in PanAm sounds "digital") and then it's HiRez and DSD and DXD, so I got very interested. It is more than half price of CLAS -dB, and more than half price of Pan Am, so I don't know should I expect it being worse or better? Note that I am not very interested in the amp stage, but only DAC. If connected it to Pan Am would I hear upgrade? I would certainly gain DSD and 192 support, but will it sound good, i.e. better than Pan Am's DAC?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We do not comment on the iDSD in relation to other peer group products.
  
 Notwithstanding, specifically with regard to the Wolfson Micro DAC chipset, we have auditioned it and in our opinion, musical speaking, leaves one hankering for more.
  
 thank you


----------



## koolas

I have ordered my iDSD, in few days I'll be able to see how good is that baby


----------



## earwaxxer

Thanks for the quick responses from iFi staff... I did figure out that the RCA's are disconnected when the headphone jack is plugged in. No biggie. The battery circuit is interesting.... So, it sounds like, even if the DAC is turned on after it is attached to the computer the DAC and electronics draw from the battery. So no difference between turning the DAC on first or second, in terms of where it gets its power from. Just that the charging circuit is not operating if it is turned on first.
  
 One other thing - I noticed that the digital volume control on JRiver MC19 does in fact work when set to internal, when redbook is being upsampled to DSD via DoP. I guess the volume control takes place before it gets converted to DSD. Is that right? The other thing I noticed is the volume control on the iDAC is a bit 'unstable' at the very low volume setting. It tends to 'break up a bit'. A small increase and all is well. With my Emotiva the volume level where the control stabilizes is a bit high for low background so I do a bit of digital attenuation on the front end. - Again - sound is awesome. The bass is quite good. Dont miss the sub.


----------



## soulkeeper

soulkeeper said:


> Any more detailed info about headphone output power in different loads?
> 
> I think it's 130mW - 16 Ohm
> 
> ...


 
@iFi audio 
  
 any info for the above?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> Thanks for the quick responses from iFi staff... I did figure out that the RCA's are disconnected when the headphone jack is plugged in. No biggie. The battery circuit is interesting.... So, it sounds like, even if the DAC is turned on after it is attached to the computer the DAC and electronics draw from the battery. So no difference between turning the DAC on first or second, in terms of where it gets its power from. Just that the charging circuit is not operating if it is turned on first.
> 
> One other thing - I noticed that the digital volume control on JRiver MC19 does in fact work when set to internal, when redbook is being upsampled to DSD via DoP. I guess the volume control takes place before it gets converted to DSD. Is that right? The other thing I noticed is the volume control on the iDAC is a bit 'unstable' at the very low volume setting. It tends to 'break up a bit'. A small increase and all is well. With my Emotiva the volume level where the control stabilizes is a bit high for low background so I do a bit of digital attenuation on the front end. - Again - sound is awesome. The bass is quite good. Dont miss the sub.


 
  
 Hi
  
 The lowest few steps of the Volume control are 4-6dB and the pot is arguably a bit fiddly in this position. 

 Best add some fixed line level attenuators. Same as with Watcher. Have a chat with the dealer from whom you purchased your unit. We can but try to see what we can do. 
  
 As for JRMC it is up to you to switch in or switch out the digital voloume control but we do our listening without the digital volume control on all playback software. You already know why!
  
 Any questions, just ask.


----------



## iFi audio

ifi audio said:


> See above


----------



## iFi audio

soulkeeper said:


> @iFi audio
> 
> any info for the above?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 re.output power iDSD... Maximum output is around 1.8V RMS into a line level out. Headphones a little less.
  
 Power is calculated V^2 / R so 1.8V squared (3.24) divided by headphone resistance, hence for 50 Ohm 3.24/50 = 0.0648 or 64.8mW


----------



## earwaxxer

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> The lowest few steps of the Volume control are 4-6dB and the pot is arguably a bit fiddly in this position.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks - I will probably use the top several db for digital attenuation that I can control from my listening position. Still, very impressive sound quality for an under $200 DAC. Unheard of a year ago, and unmatched till date from what I can see.


----------



## mrhizzo

@iFi audio 

Can you please help me?

I have an iBasso DX50 and I´d like to connect that to the iDSD, but I don´t know which cable I have to use.
There is a P2-Coaxial cable that was included with the iBasso DX50, however that doesn´t seem to work.

The only way to use the iDSD was by connecting it over USB to my notebook.

I appreciate any help. Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

mrhizzo said:


> @iFi audio
> 
> Can you please help me?
> 
> ...


 
  
 No cable will work as iDSD only accept USB input, not SPDIF coax from DX50.


----------



## Turrican2

Some Balanced goodness.  dsd files from ipad3 to the HE500's.  Spectacular sound, I swear the guitarist is in the room with me, sitting on the opposite sofa!


----------



## earwaxxer

Ok I'll admit... I do hear a 'better' sound using the volume control on the iDSD with the JRiver control defeated. Its very subtle but with the iDSD its noticable. The iDSD is so SMOOTH. As a baby's ass. Any chaff is noticed - front and center. Pretty impressive amount of definition from a $185 DAC. Or any DAC for that matter.


----------



## Roscoeiii

To confirm before I grab one, I just want to make sure the iDSD will work with my iPhone 4 with the appropriate camera connection kit.A pretty old model so just want to confirm.


----------



## kugino

roscoeiii said:


> To confirm before I grab one, I just want to make sure the iDSD will work with my iPhone 4 with the appropriate camera connection kit.A pretty old model so just want to confirm.


 
 not sure, but i would think that if the CCK works with the 4, it should work with the iDSD, as all it does is receive the appropriate usb signal.
  
 the bigger problem is getting the appropriate software to work with the CCK/iDSD. the onkyo hf player, for example, is supported only for 4S and newer. but it might possibly work on the 4...not certain, though.


----------



## earwaxxer

Another welcome surprise.... The iDSD also seems to sound very good at good old PCM. I was starting to miss my sub, so I switched the DSP in JRiver back to play as 'native', and also tried it with an upsample to 24/192. I will say, the 16/44.1 sounds very good. Better than any other of my DAC's playing redbook. The 24/192 upsample did not produce a noticeable difference on first blush. Now I can run my secondary DAC for my subwoofer off of the RCA digital out. Nice strong signal from the Coax. What I am noticing about the redbook playback is that is has that same vocals as I noticed with the DSD upsample. Nice timber and tone, good clarity and nice decay. Again, I can listen INTO the music a bit more. A bit like vinyl.


----------



## Roscoeiii

kugino said:


> not sure, but i would think that if the CCK works with the 4, it should work with the iDSD, as all it does is receive the appropriate usb signal.
> 
> the bigger problem is getting the appropriate software to work with the CCK/iDSD. the onkyo hf player, for example, is supported only for 4S and newer. but it might possibly work on the 4...not certain, though.


 
  
 Thanks. I am a bit confused though. With the iDSD, proper Windows driver and CCK kit not all audio would be sent to the iDSD? Would I not be able to use iDSD, or Spotify or other streaming program (TuneIn Radio for example) available on my iPhone?


----------



## kugino

roscoeiii said:


> Thanks. I am a bit confused though. With the iDSD, proper Windows driver and CCK kit not all audio would be sent to the iDSD? Would I not be able to use iDSD, or Spotify or other streaming program (TuneIn Radio for example) available on my iPhone?


Why would you need a windows driver to use your iPhone?

I'm pretty sure all apps that deliver audio will do so through the cck and into the idsd. My original reply only pinpointed the onkyo app because it's what most use to deliver high bitrate files to the idsd. Using the music app or spotify, you'll be limited to 96khz, I believe.


----------



## Roscoeiii

kugino said:


> Why would you need a windows driver to use your iPhone?
> 
> I'm pretty sure all apps that deliver audio will do so through the cck and into the idsd. My original reply only pinpointed the onkyo app because it's what most use to deliver high bitrate files to the idsd. Using the music app or spotify, you'll be limited to 96khz, I believe.


 
  
 Oops got distracted. No need for Windows driver for iPhone obviously. 
  
  
 And thanks so much for all of that clarification.


----------



## earwaxxer

Sorry - another question for the iFi guys - does the iDSD upsample 16/44.1 etc. or does it leave it alone (NOS). Just curious. I know it all has to do with the sound, so who cares. I really do dig what this puppy does with CD res. stuff. Prob. the clocks, jitter etc. Who cares. Its all good!


----------



## iFi audio

roscoeiii said:


> Thanks. I am a bit confused though. With the iDSD, proper Windows driver and CCK kit not all audio would be sent to the iDSD? Would I not be able to use iDSD, or Spotify or other streaming program (TuneIn Radio for example) available on my iPhone?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You have the iPhone 4. With the CCK and correct audio app (eg Onkyo HF Player), then you can use it to turn the iPhone into a 'transport' + iDSD as a 'DAC'.
  
 If you like, follow this linky and select the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/en/improve_iphone.html


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> Sorry - another question for the iFi guys - does the iDSD upsample 16/44.1 etc. or does it leave it alone (NOS). Just curious. I know it all has to do with the sound, so who cares. I really do dig what this puppy does with CD res. stuff. Prob. the clocks, jitter etc. Who cares. Its all good!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We use an Oversampling filter for PCM at sample rates lower than 352.8/384 KHz, but no "Upsampling".
  
 thank you


----------



## Roscoeiii

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You have the iPhone 4. With the CCK and correct audio app (eg Onkyo HF Player), then you can use it to turn the iPhone into a 'transport' + iDSD as a 'DAC'.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. So for non-hi-res files & non-DSD files or streaming, will I be getting a digital output from the iPhone to the iDSD? 
  
 The biggies for me, if it is easier to answer individually:
  
 1) iTunes
 2) Spotify
 3) TuneIn Radio
  
 The big appeal to me over a DAP, and before diving into DSD, would be the advantage of being able to get streaming content to the DAC of the iDSD.


----------



## Turrican2

@ifi audio

Have you tried the idsd with the squeezebox touch? I can't seem to get it to work. I've installed edo but it doesn't seem to work. Before I troubleshoot (as it is probably PEBKAC) I thought I'd check if it actually should work.

Ta

Yeah, helps if you activate edo. Works fine!


----------



## juliusthecat

Using JRiver MC 19.0.108.  In Options/Audio Device, choices are
                 iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio ASIO
                 iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio WASAPI
  
 Previously in this thread, WASAPI is suggested, however only ASIO has "DSD bitstream in DOP format" as an option in Device settings. 
  
 Suggestions?
  
  
 Wonderful device. Easy to recommend.


----------



## earwaxxer

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We use an Oversampling filter for PCM at sample rates lower than 352.8/384 KHz, but no "Upsampling".
> 
> thank you


 

 Thanks - that makes sense - I didnt notice a difference playing 16/441.1 native or my upsampled files at 24/192 with min phase, dither etc.


----------



## iFi audio

Hi all,
  
 We are getting questions on the previous tutorial which related to JRMC18.
  
 With JRMC19, the same principle applies BUT it is auto-configured by default;
  
 Just set DSD to 'Bitstreaming' > DoP (because under WASAPI ONLY DoP allows PCM).
  

  
 Under ASIO it is possible to use ASIO 2.1 and 2.2 Extensions combined to send DSD without DoP (it is rare though), so ASIO gives a choice.
  
 Thanks to JayWillin for this feedback.


----------



## iFi audio

roscoeiii said:


> Thanks. So for non-hi-res files & non-DSD files or streaming, will I be getting a digital output from the iPhone to the iDSD?
> 
> The biggies for me, if it is easier to answer individually:
> 
> ...


 

 Short answer yes!
  
 Longer answer - you know these do not play audio to a high-level? (for obvious reasons) So the benefit is limited.
  
 You can stream hi-res with WIMP...
  
 http://magazine.wimp.no/2013/09/wimp-hifi-lossless-music-streaming/


----------



## Roscoeiii

ifi audio said:


> Short answer yes!
> 
> Longer answer - you know these do not play audio to a high-level? (for obvious reasons) So the benefit is limited.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. Yes, I realize all of what you've mentioned. But even if I'd not get as much benefit with streaming/lower bitrate files, I'd prefer to be able to have all my iPhone audio routed to the iDSD to get whatever sonic benefits there may be.


----------



## koolas

I just got my iDSD today. First impressions... It doesn't work with my Linux Mint Nadia and it doesn't work with my N900 H-E-N. I wish there was a fix for these problems... Anyways it works perfectly under Win 8. I hope it will also work well under Win 7 in my office, but that I will see on Monday. Anyways, that all about me disappointed. Let's now get to the good things about iDSD.

I tried it with Momentums, and built-in headphone amp did the job very well, Momentums sounded better than ever before, i.e. definitely more detailed. I wasn't actually expecting these cans to be capable of presentation of such an amount of detail. Tried Alpha Dogs next. iDSD drives them well, but I could turn volume to 100% without getting deaf. Still it was quite loud, that I wouldn't normally listen at such volume, so I don't know whether it's good or bad... But, since I love complicating things I connected iDSD via RCA's to Pan Am. I have also replaced tubes to brand new NOS matched Mullards, and then connected Alpha Dogs. I have also connected digital output to my NAD T744. I started by listening to some Nightwish, then some ASOT by Armin, and now I'm listening to my dearly beloved "Tron Legacy: Reconfigured". The sound is coming at the same time from headphones and from loudspeakers that are powered by NAD. I matched the volumes, so when I take off headphones I head same sound at same volume. Note, that sound that goes to NAD as far as I understand skips iDSD's DAC. So I have comparison between how DAC in my NAD sounds on QA 2050i vs. DAC in iDSD though Pan Am on Alpha Dogs. I would say they sound very much the same, with slightly more detail on Alpha Dogs, but both signatures are very close. So, the NAD has very big, very heavy, and very efficient power supply built-in, while iDSD runs from battery. This small and not very expensive DAC in my opinion performs as good as DAC in this heavy NAD. At the beginning I was afraid it would sound too digital, but the longer I listen to it I start thinking it's very musical. It is a pleasure to listen to it, at least though Pan Am as amp.

Good job iFi! If you could only look at these issues in Linux, I would be more happy


----------



## koolas

I have a question to iFi: How can I play DSD audio? I tried Foobar2k using information supplied here, but I only got to DXD 352.8. When I try foo_dsd_ouput it just doesn't seem to work. Is there any other S/W I can use or plugin for Foobar2k?

I'm using track "Vivaldi: Recitative and Aria from Cantata RV 679, "Che giova il sospirar, povero core" from http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html. Even in DXD 3528 it sounds truly amazing. I just want to hear it output as true DSD... :rolleyes:


----------



## kugino

koolas said:


> I have a question to iFi: How can I play DSD audio? I tried Foobar2k using information supplied here, but I only got to DXD 352.8. When I try foo_dsd_ouput it just doesn't seem to work. Is there any other S/W I can use or plugin for Foobar2k?


 
 not intending to incite any mac/windows war, but wow, can windows make it any more difficult to output digital audio?


----------



## koolas

If under windows it won't work then which device I need to buy? Would iPod be sufficient?


----------



## earwaxxer

kugino said:


> not intending to incite any mac/windows war, but wow, can windows make it any more difficult to output digital audio?


 
 I have to admit - I'm a computer programmer - I'm also getting into my late 50's and I have grown TIRED of how UN-userfriendly windows is. When I was young it was a challenge. NOW - I cant stand it. I feel there is Apple in the future. We already have several iPhones and an iPad in our home.... I think there will be more. - how about an iPad with some USB outs etc?


----------



## kugino

koolas said:


> If under windows it won't work then which device I need to buy? Would iPod be sufficient?


 
 i'm pretty sure there is a way to output DSD in windows. some guys here might be able to help...i'm not help - i use a mac.
  


earwaxxer said:


> I have to admit - I'm a computer programmer - I'm also getting into my late 50's and I have grown TIRED of how UN-userfriendly windows is. When I was young it was a challenge. NOW - I cant stand it. I feel there is Apple in the future. We already have several iPhones and an iPad in our home.... I think there will be more. - how about an iPad with some USB outs etc?


 
 don't hold your breath. all you'll ever get on the ipad is the lightning in/output. but using the camera connection kit isn't a bad way to output audio on the iDevice. can play DSD files to the iDSD using the CCK and appropriate app like the onkyo HF Player.


----------



## koolas

Ok, good news. With JPlay I was able to play DSD64 and DSD128 
On Linux it apparently does work. I don't know why would it not work on my laptop, but on desktop both Pulse Audio and Jack work fine.
I might try again with laptop. I would also prefer to make Foobar work rather than using JPlay.

BTW SQ of DSD files played with JPlay really astonishing


----------



## marcie

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We use an Oversampling filter for PCM at sample rates lower than 352.8/384 KHz, but no "Upsampling".
> 
> thank you


 
  
 Different methods, same result!


----------



## koolas

marcie said:


> Different methods, same result!




Well there is slight difference. The up-sampling is any type of sample rate conversion from lower to higher, while oversampling is one type of such conversion - AFAIK oversampling it is ZOH method, which produces square samples. It is like viewing low-rez image on high-res screen. If low-rez imge is half the pixels of the high-rez screen then you can use ZOH, that is every pixel of low rez image is shown using two adjacent pixels of high rez image. The effect is as your display was low rez. Other up-sampling techniques involve linear filter, or cubic filter, and even sinc filter can be used. However most of you probably noticed that linear filter used to scale low rez images makes images appear blurred. Situation is much better if you use cubic or sinc filter. However sharpest image you get with ZOH. I which LCD screens had an option to enforce ZOH...

So, it means that lower rez music will sound digital on iFi unless you lock output to DXD. I run Jack at 352.8kHz/24bit under Linux and use Audacious to play music. The white LED on iFi confirms that I'm sending 352.8kHz data over USB, and the sample rate conversion is done in software. And in that software I may choose to use ZOH, linear, or sinc if I wish.


----------



## marcie

Hmmm. The benefits of upsampling vs oversampling are greatly debated, and presumably overstated. See here for a technical description:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio
  
 Many other articles are available on the net, but those not providing technical descriptions should be avoided. I recall reading statements from the likes of John Westlake and Paul Miller commenting on the "sameness" of results. It's a minor point, but I'm a bit wary of manufacturers claiming benefits where really, there are none. That's why I made my first comment on 'different method, same results'. It takes absolutely nothing away from the iDSD Nano, which I believe is a tremendous achievement!


----------



## iFi audio

Hi
  
 This comes from AMR's Chief Designer:
  
 Oversampling is not automatically ZOH, in FACT, ZOH would be pointless in an oversampling filter, as it, in effect does not " oversample" nor "filter" at all, might as well use Non-Oversampling.
  
 However Up-conversion to 352.8KHz (for 44.1/882/176.4 KHz Sample rate recordngs) or 384KHz (for 48/96/192KHz Sample rate recordings) with ZOH can be used to in effect place the iDSD into what amounts to non-oversampling mode. The downside is that ZOH attenuates the HF response of the resulting signal, for example CD-Standard PCM audio will face 3.2dB attenuation at 20KHz starting to rolloff as low as 5KHz - this can make the music sound too dull.
  
 Linear interpolation is equally pointless, it does provide some mild filtering but again does not really help, but it produces even more HF roll-off than ZOH.
  
 Modern Digital filters use different structures (tapped delay lines with multiple weights to mix together the different delayed outputs - this is somewhat reminiscent to the old style of analogue tapped delay line chroma filters in old Colour TV's). This rejects ultrasonic images depending on filter slope. 
  
 The "standard filter" on the iDSD in effect performs "sinc" type interpolation, which has the best "on paper" performance, with completely flat frequency and phase response up to half the sample rate and then a very steep rolloff. It also results in a symmetrical impulse response with filter ringing BEFORE and AFTER the main impulse. 
  
 However many listeners tend to associate this type of filter with "digital sound", for reasons that so far lack any reliable proof, though many theories to the "why" exist. 
  
 The iDSD offers an alternative filter that is generally evaluated as more "analoge" or "musical" than "best sinc". This alternative minimum phase filter on the iDSD is a different animal to anything discussed so far. This type of filter was pioneered by Wadia as "Digimaster" and Pioneer as "Legato Link" and has since been picked up by a number of manufacturers. 
  
 These filters do not attempt perfect response flatness and allow some HF attenuation at half the sample rate (but much less than ZOH, so the "dull sound" effect does not happen). And they are less steep, so some ultrasonic images are allowed through (though much less than ZOH) but the impulse response lacks pre-ringing. 
  
 We find these filters a good compromise between filtering ultrasonic noise and time domain fidelity vs. amplitude response flatness. The type of filter embodied by the iDSD's minimum phase filter is generally not available in resamplers such as those based on SOX (most common in playback software).
  
 Additionally the digital filter in the iDSD is adaptive, in terms of sample rate. The higher the source sample rate, the less the oversampling ratio. So for example CD standard PCM is oversampled eight Times, but 192KHz audio is oversampled only two times, in effect the oversampling filter always performs integer ratio oversampling to 352.8KHz or 384KHz with either sinc or minimum phase filtering/interpolation (selectable).
  
 We recommend to leave the digital processing to the built-in digital filter in Minimum Phase mode, though of course our customers are free to choose whatever way they wish, however we would strongly recommend to try the internal minimum phase filter FIRST, before trying other options.


----------



## koolas

Sounds like iDSD is super-awesome beast  

I've got one question: which position of the switch is which filter, because labels say "MINIMUM STANDARD" and "FILTER". I use the first one, but honestly I don't think I can hear difference between those two. Maybe need to do more listening.

However... I've finally got Foobar to play DSD as DSD - yes LED goes magenta. But once I use foo_output_dsd, then all the CD music is converted by Foobar into DSD128 format, which I find good. I think the PCM converted to DSD sounds better than oversampled PCM. I think the oversampled PCM tended to sound digital, i.e. I think hear ringing and aliasing artifacts (Yet need to compare both positions of filter switch). But when Foobar converts PCM to DSD the result is just amazing. The whole thing about DSD is not about wider frequency range, because human ears can't hear above 20kHz, but it is all about smoothness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with DSD you will never have any aliasing artifacts, no ringing, DSD really sounds like it is digital Vinyl and iDSD does magic, true magic...

The only problem I have with iDSD is its reliability. When Foobar switches from DSD64 to DSD128 it fails sometimes, I had issue that there was no sound as well. On Linux sometimes in the middle of song it can stop playing and I have to restart Jack. Actually I haven't experienced that problem with Jack at 382.8, so if that is the solution I'm OK with that. It sounds like I wouldn't be using built-in oversampling, but it's good to know its engineered so well. Sinc filter - who would expect - I'm really astonished


----------



## juliusthecat

I listen to rock/pop on ripped CDs at home and 320 MP3s at the gym.  I doubt I will buy any DSD files soon.  Listened this morning with JRiver changing the output format using "DSP & output formats" under Options/settings.  I used Brainwavz B2s and am on the road with just a few listening choices.
  
 "DSD in DoP format" (blue light on iDSD: DSD 2.8)  was clearly worse than no encoding (sending unchanged 44.1kHz > green light on iDSD) with rolled off top end and muddy bass - disappointment.
  
 "2xDSD in DoP format" (magenta light on iDSD: DSD 5.6) was slightly better than no encoding.  Voice and guitar were a bit more natural and bass guitar and kick drum were more distinct.  I would probably be happy with either option.  Unprocessed 44.1 may have been a bit forward in the mid-range, though this may be an unfair/inaccurate comment.  YMMV.
  
 2xDSD in native format didn't work on my laptop,  Perhaps it lacks power with a JRiver benchmark of 2152.
  
 The performance is very strong with 16/44.1 material and it seems fairly priced.  I will compare it to a Ross Martin bare beast later in the week (which I have liked the past couple of years and have at home) .
  
 FWIW, I was formerly julius_the_cat on this forum, but my previous username was disabled. I find the technical part of music less interesting than it was to me a few years ago.


----------



## kugino

juliusthecat said:


> I listen to rock/pop on ripped CDs at home and 320 MP3s at the gym.  I doubt I will buy any DSD files soon.  Listened this morning with JRiver changing the output format using "DSP & output formats" under Options/settings.  I used Brainwavz B2s and am on the road with just a few listening choices.
> 
> "DSD in DoP format" (blue light on iDSD: DSD 2.8)  was clearly worse than no encoding (sending unchanged 44.1kHz > green light on iDSD) with rolled off top end and muddy bass - disappointment.
> 
> ...


Doesn't surprise me that you'd hear no sonic improvement via software upsampling...


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> Sounds like iDSD is super-awesome beast
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are 2 filter options:
  
 "Minimum Phase Filter" OR "Standard Filter"
  
 The switch in the upper position is "Minimum Phase Filter."
  
 The switch in the lower position is "Standard Filter."
  
 Hence "Minimum/Standard" and "Filter."
  
  
  
 If you try a piano concerto track, a REAL piano sounds "woody". A piano done not so well sounds "glassy."
  
 To us, Minimum Phase sounds more like the former.


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> When Foobar switches from DSD64 to DSD128 it fails sometimes, I had issue that there was no sound as well. On Linux sometimes in the middle of song it can stop playing and I have to restart Jack. Actually I haven't experienced that problem with Jack at 382.8, so if that is the solution I'm OK with that. It sounds like I wouldn't be using built-in oversampling, but it's good to know its engineered so well. Sinc filter - who would expect - I'm really astonished


 
  
 Drop us a PM or email.
  
 We'll run through the Foobar settings with you.
  
 We can only offer suggestions. As you know, Foobar is open source - hence not expected to be super-stable.
  
 JRMC and AN+ are what we recommend and they are not expensive yet are reliable.
  
 If you try JRMC (trial) you will find the iDSD does what it says on the tin!
  
 thank you


----------



## Watcherq

Hi all, sometime back, someone asked me to compare the iDSD to X3.

From what I can hear from FLAC files sourced from both RBCD and a few high res (192/24). I didn't compare to DSD files as the X3 cannot play them. The differences are:
- iDSD has a wider, deeper sound stage
- iDSD has more fine details and "air" especially for instrumentation. Vocally, they are almost the same, edge goes to iDSD
- On X3, the bass, especially drums is quite "dense" that comes across as heavy and solid. On iDSD, it is slightly lighter but has some air in it. Kinda like a heavy/dense vs light gnocchi, if you know what I mean. Given the reputation of the X3 of being "warm" it is not surprising. Not that the iDSD a lot less bass, but a lot more moderate is the feel that I get.
- on iDSD, the violin and other string instruments somehow sounds sweeter, more air and has a sharp edge to it. It is more exciting and enjoyable when compared to the X3 where the strings are rather heavier and "rounded" and very ordinary.

On PC: Foobar 2k + foo_dsd_asio ->iUSB -> Gemini cable -> iDSD -> Shure 846 (default filters)


----------



## Watcherq

Ok, I've encountered another issue with the iDSD when I connect it to my other laptop.  On a USB 3.0 port, I can't play DSD files (DFF, DSF) files properly.  PCM has no issue, but on my i7 Lenovo Helix, when I plug the iDSD with the USB cable that comes with it, using foobar, hqplayer or JRMC, all the DSD files sounded staccato and choppy.  I tried both ASIO and WASAPI drivers with the same outcome.  The ASIO drivers even hung the players and seems to even wait for kernel events (the program UI closes, but the process is still visible in the task manager).  I tried different ports, linking to and using the USB 3.0 port on my monitor and switching cables but to no avail.
  
 What worked was when I switched in the BIOS for the USB ports to behave as an USB 2.0 port.  The other way was to hook up an USB 2.0 hub and plug the iDSD to it.


----------



## earwaxxer

No probems here with USB 3.0 on my HP laptop. Not sure if 3.0 isnt overkill anyway. Anyone notice a difference in sound between a 3.0 and 3.0 USB? I havent compared the two. - some other 'discoveries' re. iDSD sound, since having it now for a couple of weeks.... Symbols have a very nice clean presentation with great decay like I have previously not heard. Also, for example Jethro Tull, I can hear how softly the notes come from his flute. Drums are tight and defined. Vocals are spot on.


----------



## iFi audio

watcherq said:


> Ok, I've encountered another issue with the iDSD when I connect it to my other laptop.  On a USB 3.0 port, I can't play DSD files (DFF, DSF) files properly.  PCM has no issue, but on my i7 Lenovo Helix, when I plug the iDSD with the USB cable that comes with it, using foobar, hqplayer or JRMC, all the DSD files sounded staccato and choppy.  I tried both ASIO and WASAPI drivers with the same outcome.  The ASIO drivers even hung the players and seems to even wait for kernel events (the program UI closes, but the process is still visible in the task manager).  I tried different ports, linking to and using the USB 3.0 port on my monitor and switching cables but to no avail.
> 
> What worked was when I switched in the BIOS for the USB ports to behave as an USB 2.0 port.  The other way was to hook up an USB 2.0 hub and plug the iDSD to it.


 
  
 You are correct.
  
 USB 3.0 ports have slightly different specs from manufacturer to manufacturer.
  
 Hence, at the moment, with a dac such as the iDSD, it will work with the USB 3.0 port of some PCs and not with the USB 3.0 ports of others.
  
 We are working on a solution to remedy this for all USB 3.0 ports.
  
 Not nice, but computer manufacturers dont inform audio manufacturers when they change the tech specs.


----------



## earwaxxer

Ok sports fans - one more thing - actually I'm sure there will be more.... Ok as you guys will know.. The Mrs. etc were out of the house, no not that,.... 
  
 I had the chance to do a 'focused' session. I put focused on quotes, due to the possible influence of substances etc,... Anyway - the goal was to determine if the iDSD would do 'better' with upsampled data from JRiver vs. doing it on its own (sorry - oversampled). Anywho - every other DAC I have does better when the said data is upsampled/oversampled before it reaches said DAC. Not so with the iDSD IMFHO. Anywho. All is good in redbook land. Cary-on.


----------



## limahuli

Is there an ETA for the USB 3.0 firmware update? My iDSD no longer outputs audio from any of my Macs, including a Mavericks/10.9.1 Mac Mini, a new 10.9.1 MacBook Pro or an older Mac Pro 10.8.6 tower (the latter is USB 2.0). 
  
 Actually, the laptop outputs audio, but it's full of static and dropouts, and after about 10 seconds it quits entirely. 
  
 I've tried JRiver, iTunes, Cog, Decibel, YouTube videos via the browser, everything. Silence via RCA outs and headphones. 
  
 The unit still works on iOS devices, btw.


----------



## kugino

limahuli said:


> Is there an ETA for the USB 3.0 firmware update? My iDSD no longer outputs audio from any of my Macs, including a Mavericks/10.9.1 Mac Mini, a new 10.9.1 MacBook Pro or an older Mac Pro 10.8.6 tower (the latter is USB 2.0).
> 
> Actually, the laptop outputs audio, but it's full of static and dropouts, and after about 10 seconds it quits entirely.
> 
> ...


 
 that stinks. but if it's not outputting any sound even out of a usb 2.0 port, then something's wrong with the iDSD that's not related to usb 3.0. did you try using different USB cables?


----------



## limahuli

kugino said:


> that stinks. but if it's not outputting any sound even out of a usb 2.0 port, then something's wrong with the iDSD that's not related to usb 3.0. did you try using different USB cables?


 
 Yes, tried both the supplied ifi USB cable and a new one from Monoprice. 
  
 I have a feeling the Mavericks update from 10.9.0 to 10.9.1 may have hosed the iDSD's ability to deal with USB 3.0 connections, but can't explain why a machine with 10.8.6/USB 2.0 that worked for a month just stopped working at the same time as the 3.0 machines.


----------



## kugino

limahuli said:


> Yes, tried both the supplied ifi USB cable and a new one from Monoprice.
> 
> I have a feeling the Mavericks update from 10.9.0 to 10.9.1 may have hosed the iDSD's ability to deal with USB 3.0 connections, but can't explain why a machine with 10.8.6/USB 2.0 that worked for a month just stopped working at the same time as the 3.0 machines.


 
 yeah, that usb 2.0 not working as well leads me to believe that there's an issue with the iDSD that's not normal. i think a lot of people here who have iDSDs are using them fine on their macs with usb 3.0.


----------



## iFi audio

kugino said:


> yeah, that usb 2.0 not working as well leads me to believe that there's an issue with the iDSD that's not normal. i think a lot of people here who have iDSDs are using them fine on their macs with usb 3.0.


 
  
 Hi Kugino,
  
 Mr Limahui has already emailed us and we are running through his computer setup situation.
  
 He kindly emailed us directly:
  
'The iDSD has ceased working with my desktop computers. I'm running 10.8.5 at work and 10.9.1 at home, and the device no longer has any
output. I've tried every combination of connections and rebooted, attempting to use iTunes, Cog, Decibel and other audio apps, with no luck.
  
Have any other users reported this? The device still works with my iPhone and my iPad, by the way.'
  
 As he actually confirmed that the iDSD works fine with his iPad and iPhone, we logically deduced it isn't the iDSD.
  
 We are working through the setup configs on the PCs....once we have his screenshots, we can hopefully get to the bottom.


----------



## kugino

ifi audio said:


> Hi Kugino,
> 
> Mr Limahui has already emailed us and we are running through his computer setup situation.
> 
> ...


I missed that part where he said it works fine with the ipad/idevice. Glad you're working with him to see where the issue is...I really appreciate ifi's customer service and interaction with the community.


----------



## iFi audio

kugino said:


> I missed that part where he said it works fine with the ipad/idevice. Glad you're working with him to see where the issue is...I really appreciate ifi's customer service and interaction with the community.


 
  
 It is good that we receive these requests because we can directly sense how much computer audio knowledge there is out there and across the whole spectrum of users.
  
 Limahui fortunately did some basic checking and narrowed it down for us already.
  
 We are just waiting on his OS X screenshots with the iDSD connected to see where the issue lies.
  
 We wont know until we see the screenshots...this helps us with other users as it speeds things up in the future.


----------



## REXNFX

earwaxxer said:


> Ok sports fans - one more thing - actually I'm sure there will be more.... Ok as you guys will know.. The Mrs. etc were out of the house, no not that,....
> 
> I had the chance to do a 'focused' session. I put focused on quotes, due to the possible influence of substances etc,... Anyway - the goal was to determine if the iDSD would do 'better' with upsampled data from JRiver vs. doing it on its own (sorry - oversampled). Anywho - every other DAC I have does better when the said data is upsampled/oversampled before it reaches said DAC. Not so with the iDSD IMFHO. Anywho. All is good in redbook land. Cary-on.


 

 Sounds amazing! How do hi-res and DSD files compare to redbook on the iDSD?


----------



## earwaxxer

rexnfx said:


> Sounds amazing! How do hi-res and DSD files compare to redbook on the iDSD?


 

 I have some HDTracks downloads in 24/96 and I cant really notice that much, if any difference. Two favs. being 'Band on the Run' and 'Raising Sand'. Thats pretty much been true for every DAC I have experience with. I dont have any DSD files. Upsampled to DSD/high res. using JRiver sounds the same as allowing the iDSD to handle the job.


----------



## semeniub

limahuli said:


> Yes, tried both the supplied ifi USB cable and a new one from Monoprice.
> 
> I have a feeling the Mavericks update from 10.9.0 to 10.9.1 may have hosed the iDSD's ability to deal with USB 3.0 connections, but can't explain why a machine with 10.8.6/USB 2.0 that worked for a month just stopped working at the same time as the 3.0 machines.


 
 Very strange. I've been able to use the iDSD on the USB 3.0 connections on a Macbook with Mavericks 10.9.1 so far without any hiccups. It will be interesting to see what the solution is to the problem for your 2 machines.


----------



## koolas

I have mentioned that in PM to iFi, but I want to repeat myself here. The iDSD sometimes stops outputting analogue signal to RCA outputs. I had that feeling that it usually happens when mode is changing either to/from higher sample rate or PCM - DSD - DXD. One may try to turn iDSD off and disconnect USB cable for few seconds, plug it to different USB port in your computer and then connect it back and turn iDSD on. This helped me most times. Also playing DSD128 material in Foobar and then switching to PCM sometimes helps. Also helped if I rebooted in Linux and used Jack at 352.8 sample rate, play some tack, and then then restart Jack at 44.1 sample rate, and stop Jack and reboot in Windows. 

For me it sounds like iDSD supports hardware volume control or mute function and that get stuck in some memory of iDSD, or I also thought maybe PCM and DSD are decoded by two different DACs and the switching between them sometimes sticks. I have also had situation that Foobar was able to play DSD128 file fine, but couldn't switch back to PCM. I had rebooted the box several times then, with no success, I booted in Linux, then in Windows and finally I got it working again.


----------



## koolas

rexnfx said:


> Sounds amazing! How do hi-res and DSD files compare to redbook on the iDSD?




You can download free DSD examples from here.

These recordings sound stunning on my current setup, which is USB 2.0 port + iDSD + Pan Am + Alpha Dogs.
I would probably not hear any difference between DSD or HiRez and CD with my other headphones like RHA-30, but with these orthos you hear absolutely every even the smallest change in sound reproduction.

This is my personal opinion, personally I prefer iDSD playing DSD rather than PCM, even rather than DXD, which in theory should be superior to any DSD.
I even prefer to have PCM converted to DSD on the fly by foo_dsd_asio. I do prefer that even if the image is little blurred as compared to PCM. The image might be weaker and blurred, but I can hear significant improvement in soundstage and 3D image. Basically DSD sounds to me more natural, even if technically it measures worse than PCM. The ballance between bass and treble is appealing to my taste. What I hear is soundstage gets bigger, and many layers are revealed, you can feel the sound is coming from distance rather than from your head, and all drums have this punch, the PRaT is just amazing. The only problem I think there could be high energy ultrasonic frequencies, which I feel tire my ears a bit. 

I would like to know what is the characteristics of the output filter in DSD mode? Is DSD converted back to n-bit and digital filter is applied before output?


----------



## kugino

koolas said:


> I have mentioned that in PM to iFi, but I want to repeat myself here. The iDSD sometimes stops outputting analogue signal to RCA outputs. I had that feeling that it usually happens when mode is changing either to/from higher sample rate or PCM - DSD - DXD. One may try to turn iDSD off and disconnect USB cable for few seconds, plug it to different USB port in your computer and then connect it back and turn iDSD on. This helped me most times. Also playing DSD128 material in Foobar and then switching to PCM sometimes helps. Also helped if I rebooted in Linux and used Jack at 352.8 sample rate, play some tack, and then then restart Jack at 44.1 sample rate, and stop Jack and reboot in Windows.
> 
> For me it sounds like iDSD supports hardware volume control or mute function and that get stuck in some memory of iDSD, or I also thought maybe PCM and DSD are decoded by two different DACs and the switching between them sometimes sticks. I have also had situation that Foobar was able to play DSD128 file fine, but couldn't switch back to PCM. I had rebooted the box several times then, with no success, I booted in Linux, then in Windows and finally I got it working again.


 
 sounds like a windows problem to me. 
  
 hopefully you'll be able to figure out the issue...


----------



## koolas

kugino said:


> sounds like a windows problem to me.
> 
> hopefully you'll be able to figure out the issue...




I think I experienced that on Linux a well...


----------



## kugino

koolas said:


> I think I experienced that on Linux a well...


I thought ifi mentioned somewhere In this thread that Linux support was spotty...have to look through those posts.


----------



## earwaxxer

kugino said:


> I thought ifi mentioned somewhere In this thread that Linux support was spotty...have to look through those posts.


 
 I noticed that once on my Windows 7 - turned the DAC off and then back on - restarted the software and all was good.


----------



## REXNFX

earwaxxer said:


> I have some HDTracks downloads in 24/96 and I cant really notice that much, if any difference. Two favs. being 'Band on the Run' and 'Raising Sand'. Thats pretty much been true for every DAC I have experience with. I dont have any DSD files. Upsampled to DSD/high res. using JRiver sounds the same as allowing the iDSD to handle the job.


 
 Thanks for the feedback, so far I've not been impressed with redbook or redbook upsampled to 24/96 and was thinking of trying a DSD DAC


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> I have mentioned that in PM to iFi, but I want to repeat myself here. The iDSD sometimes stops outputting analogue signal to RCA outputs. I had that feeling that it usually happens when mode is changing either to/from higher sample rate or PCM - DSD - DXD. One may try to turn iDSD off and disconnect USB cable for few seconds, plug it to different USB port in your computer and then connect it back and turn iDSD on. This helped me most times. Also playing DSD128 material in Foobar and then switching to PCM sometimes helps. Also helped if I rebooted in Linux and used Jack at 352.8 sample rate, play some tack, and then then restart Jack at 44.1 sample rate, and stop Jack and reboot in Windows.
> 
> For me it sounds like iDSD supports hardware volume control or mute function and that get stuck in some memory of iDSD, or I also thought maybe PCM and DSD are decoded by two different DACs and the switching between them sometimes sticks. I have also had situation that Foobar was able to play DSD128 file fine, but couldn't switch back to PCM. I had rebooted the box several times then, with no success, I booted in Linux, then in Windows and finally I got it working again.


 
  
 Hi Koolas,
  
 Please do keep to emails to:
  
 tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 including screenshots especially as this helps immensely.
  
 Otherwise this thread gets clogged up with lots of technical support and everybody chiming in but nobody knowing your full system (including us!).


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> I would like to know what is the characteristics of the output filter in DSD mode? Is DSD converted back to n-bit and digital filter is applied before output?


 
  
 The DSD signal is left untouched as pure single bitstream and no digital filtering is applied.
  
 As per the instruction card, the two analogue filters are user-selectable, with different amounts of filtering of the ultrasonic noise.
  
 The Standard filter filters more steeply.


----------



## earwaxxer

rexnfx said:


> Thanks for the feedback, so far I've not been impressed with redbook or redbook upsampled to 24/96 and was thinking of trying a DSD DAC


 
 Thats kind of where my thinking was going as well. I liked what I was hearing when I manipulated my 16/44.1 to 24/96 then 24/192 when the technology became more available, so I figured I would try DSD as well. Lets face it, I have a TON of 16/44.1. It means nothing to me that native high res and DSD sounds great etc. I'm not re-buying my entire collection. What was a bit unexpected with the iDSD is that it handles PCM very nicely. I have ceased running to my trusty SoX upsampler with the use of min phase, etc. I just really like the sound of the silicon in this kit. I'm sure its more than that, but who cares...


----------



## Galad

limahuli said:


> Is there an ETA for the USB 3.0 firmware update? My iDSD no longer outputs audio from any of my Macs, including a Mavericks/10.9.1 Mac Mini, a new 10.9.1 MacBook Pro or an older Mac Pro 10.8.6 tower (the latter is USB 2.0).
> 
> Actually, the laptop outputs audio, but it's full of static and dropouts, and after about 10 seconds it quits entirely.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, exact same thing thing here.
 Brand new nano iDSD, MBP retina late 2013, Mavericks 10.9.1 : Lots of static, dropouts and jitter, whatever the player or the source. It stops playing DSD after 10s.
 No artifacts on integrated mac output.
 If its a USB 3.0 problem, I hope ifi will find a solution or the nano will be unusable for me, the MBP being my only source…


----------



## kugino

any of you guys who are having problems with the usb 3.0 port have a powered usb 2.0 hub that you can use in the meantime? does using the usb 2.0 hub work for you?


----------



## Galad

same thing for me with an intermediate 2.0 usb hub


----------



## earwaxxer

This seems to be poor testing on the part of iFi. Not a good sign. The stuff needs to work, at the basic minimum.... I mean, I can dump my gripes here about other DAC's that I own, mostly from blown outputs that were not addressed when I sent the unit in for 'repair'. The repair was not done. They still continued to, and did initially 'work'. I have a real problem with a piece that just doesnt work. From the get go. I returned such a piece just this week. A coax to toslink converter. Just flat out didnt work. Back it goes... Pisses me off - waist of time...


----------



## earwaxxer

With that said above, the field of 'computer audio' is fraught with danger. Crap that doesnt play well with other's etc. Software that glitches, Crap I just realized that I have this 'short circuit' that occurs wihen I have an electrical connection with my sub woofer DAC's and amps. The work around... I'm going with a coax to optical converter from the iDSD to my sub equipment. This is not unique to the iDSD BTW. I believe that this issue is what burned out some of the outs on my other DAC's - BNC on the Wryd and the coax on the Transporter. Its complicated folks - its worth it though.. Of course I'm coming from the age when we used to run code on punch cards!


----------



## aleman

Have my iDSD for few weeks, love the DSD sound with DSD64/128. I also have the Schiit Loki and Centrance Hifi M8 LX, but like the analogue smoothness of the iDSD better over all the other.
  
 Of course iDSD does not have much power, so need to put it through an external amp to power bigger headphones, builtin amp is fine for IEM's or smaller headphones.
  
 Had problems with no audio on my MacBook Pro Retina running Mavericks  with Audiorvana few times, each time it turns out the Mac the Audio MIDI panel shows the Mac has muted the volume on this device and this mute setting typically survives a reboot or unplug and re-plug of the device.
  
 Simply unmute the volume in Audio MIDI and everything is fine, have seen this same problem sometimes with Centrance Hifi M8 as well.
  
 On my MAC the Audio MIDI control panel sometimes hangs (seems like an Apple bug), a force kill cures this issue.
  
 Hope it helps somebody here, don't think this is an iDSD issue at least on the MAC.


----------



## earwaxxer

I think that what alemen is saying above is a good indication of what to expect form doing this computer audio stuff. What I think we can all expect is that the stuff we have to mess with and tweak with should NOT cost an arm and a leg. Thats the whole point. A mature product that  does everything perfectly, even though it is far less than ideal will take time to develop, and by then its obsolete.


----------



## StratocasterMan

I must report that the iDSD did not work for me.
  
 I have a very new computer. I have a Lenovo A730 desktop all-in-one PC running Windows 8.1.
  
 My Lenovo computer only has USB 3.0 ports. It does not have any USB 2.0 ports because it is a very new computer.
  
 I bought the iDSD and installed the drivers as per iFi's website, but it never worked correctly for me.
  
 It would successfully play files up to 44.1 kHz / 16 bit using Foobar 2000 as my music player. I have lots of experience with Foobar 2000.
  
 It would not play anything over 44.1 kHz / 16 bit. Anything above that was distorted and didn't work correctly. Windows 8.1 reported errors with the driver. It would not play any test tones over 44.1 kHz / 16 bit using the Windows Control Panel.
  
 I am not trying to slam the product in any way. It was beautifully made and well packaged. However, I had to return it, because I could not get it to function correctly with my very recent PC running Windows 8.1 and with USB 3.0 ports only, and I suspect the driver was the problem. Contrary to popular belief, I have found Windows 8.1 to be fantastic, so I certainly wasn't going to change my operating system in an effort to get the iDSD to work.
  
 Those were my experiences and here is a picture of my Lenovo A730 computer.


----------



## iFi audio

*USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 - technical background and Windows workaround.*
  
 Some background information to shed light on this subject:
- USB docking ports are not all identical as they utilise different chipsets from different manufacturers.
 - USB audio modules have a hardware+software to 'communicate' with these USB ports.
  
 Computer audio is dynamic so we can only test to the very latest and if a new change comes along, we like any other manufacturer, will follow-suit. We try our absolute utmost to stay abreast but new changes/updates always occur. This is the ever-changing nature of computer audio.
  
 A sizeable number of iDSDs have been shipped. The Firmware in all of them is based upon the official USB Specifications. We have tested this with a number of computers, but it is impossible for us to test with every model and make. Thus far, the USB 3.0 issue is comparably infrequent - for some of the newest Windows PCs and the latest MBPs. 
  
 We have identified firmware changes that should overcome all currently documented USB 3.0 issues, however the changes needed are far-reaching (almost a complete software re-write). iFi's in-house programming must take all the time it needs but rest assured that we are pulling out all the stops to make the solution available as soon as possible.
  
 The Intel (and others) USB 3.0 implementations have well-documented, substantial issues, which depend also on implementation in the Computer and driver software. Hence, this is why the USB3.0 issue works with some USB3.0 ports and not with others. These issues with USB 3.0 for both Windows and Mac are widely discussed, but usually relate to external HDDs or USB memory sticks. 
  
 The underlying issues are with hardware (USB controller chips) and Software drivers not conforming to the official USB 3.0 Specification.
  
*iFi workaround for new Windows Computers with USB 3.0 issue *
(Please follow this link and the instructions): 
 http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/e43de6f5-4ad5-4f09-8021-92aefb00480d/windows-8-usb-30-problems?forum=w8itproinstall
  
 You can see a screenshot of an example for setting this in the BIOS here:
 http://i.stack.imgur.com/Zao1A.jpg
  
 Please refer to your computer's manual for details on how to access the BIOS setting screen.
  
 We are examining workarounds for Mac...
  
 Updates will also be found here:
 https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio
  
 If you are one of the few whose USB3.0 port is not okay, iFi really does appreciate your endeavours.
  
 Anyone who cannot use the iDSD with their standard computer setup and does not wish to wait for the update, should discuss a return with their retailer - we formally apologise for any inconvenience caused.
  
 Last but not least, those who wish to be notified to test the new firmware as soon as it is ready, drop us a PM or email: tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 We thank you in advance


----------



## koolas

I have managed to overcome issues on my laptop. As it occurred ports that I was previously trying were USB 3.0 ports. Fortunately this laptop has also one USB 2.0 port. As soon as I learned about that fact I tried iDSD under Linux and Windows 8 on that laptop, and must say it all just works. Under Linux it even works better than on my desktop! I was actually able to route output to two devices, iDSD and built-in optical, simultaneously. Here's a screen-shot for ones who are interested:


----------



## earwaxxer

Thats pretty cool koolas - I have not messed with Linux - that may be my next project. The computer I'm using to type this is an old Vista HP that is running an evaluation copy of 8.1. I keeps restarting after 1 hour of use because they want me to buy the copy. -
  
_*Question for iF*_i - Will the iDSD benefit from the iPurifier, or does it already have some of that filtering built in. I'm toying with the idea of buying another USB cable (short) one or buying the iPurifier. - Thanks much!


----------



## iFi audio

earwaxxer said:


> Thats pretty cool koolas - I have not messed with Linux - that may be my next project. The computer I'm using to type this is an old Vista HP that is running an evaluation copy of 8.1. I keeps restarting after 1 hour of use because they want me to buy the copy. -
> 
> _*Question for iF*_i - Will the iDSD benefit from the iPurifier, or does it already have some of that filtering built in. I'm toying with the idea of buying another USB cable (short) one or buying the iPurifier. - Thanks much!


 
  
  
 Yes.it benefits the iDSD.
  
 The Re-Balancing and noise filtering of the USB Signal works for all USB DAC's including the iDSD.
  
 cheers


----------



## earwaxxer

Worth trying.... I got a USB 'adapter' kit from Radio Crap. It has some USB A to B etc in the kit. I used that with the iDSD and the sound was quite a bit different vs. the included short USB cable that ships with the unit. That doesnt prove much, but for the price of the adapter it was interesting. I had noticed a smaller improvement with my uLink from Wyrd4snd. This is pretty big. I have to listen more to figure out how exactly its different, but initially at least the sound is 'bigger and bolder', almost like the difference between RCA and Balanced.


----------



## Roscoeiii

earwaxxer said:


> Worth trying.... I got a USB 'adapter' kit from Radio Crap. It has some USB A to B etc in the kit. I used that with the iDSD and the sound was quite a bit different vs. the included short USB cable that ships with the unit. That doesnt prove much, but for the price of the adapter it was interesting. I had noticed a smaller improvement with my uLink from Wyrd4snd. This is pretty big. I have to listen more to figure out how exactly its different, but initially at least the sound is 'bigger and bolder', almost like the difference between RCA and Balanced.




Can you give us a link to the adapter?

Maybe I will grab one when I get my CCK (anyone have recs for these? Gotta get my iPhone 4 sorted).

Because YEAH. Got an iDSD today. A demo unit at a great price!


----------



## earwaxxer

roscoeiii said:


> Can you give us a link to the adapter?
> 
> Maybe I will grab one when I get my CCK (anyone have recs for these? Gotta get my iPhone 4 sorted).
> 
> Because YEAH. Got an iDSD today. A demo unit at a great price!


 

 I used some thing like this:
 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=26702546&numProdsPerPage=60
 I went into radio shack to buy it. It came with a bunch of adapters like this one. I put my laptop on the floor next to my system so I dont need a cable. I figured getting rid of the cable all together had to be a good thing, and it appears from my listening that it is. I have not been able to find an 'adapter' like this offered from the high end cable makers. Let me know if you find one. - Also - like to hear impressions of the iDSD!


----------



## blasjw

earwaxxer said:


> I used some thing like this:
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=26702546&numProdsPerPage=60
> I went into radio shack to buy it. It came with a bunch of adapters like this one. I put my laptop on the floor next to my system so I dont need a cable. I figured getting rid of the cable all together had to be a good thing, and it appears from my listening that it is. I have not been able to find an 'adapter' like this offered from the high end cable makers. Let me know if you find one. - Also - like to hear impressions of the iDSD!


 
  
 I like it, remove the cable from the equation.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  You're right, it's hard to find male A to male B adapters like that.  Most are the wrong gender, i.e. m-f, f-m, f-f.  Or, they have mini/micro B.  However, I did manage to find one and only one on Amazon.  Not from a high end company but looks decent:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/HDE%C2%AE-USB-Type-Male-Adapter/dp/B002B9AR8I


----------



## koolas

You just need USB OTG cable. You will surely find OTG cable on Amazon or ebay. The only problem with OTG cable is that you will have to plug regular USB A to B cable (one provided with iDSD is fine) into its A-female plug, and that means plug dangling, which is kind of not nice. 

Question to iFi: Can you confirm that USB OTG cable works with Android devices?


----------



## Roscoeiii

earwaxxer said:


> . Let me know if you find one. - Also - like to hear impressions of the iDSD!


 
  
 Thanks! Will do. I am looking forward to hearing how this stands up to the DPSeaker Dual Core in my main rig. Easy to level match these two, since both have built in volume control. 
  
 Exciting stuff. So far, so so good with the iDSD.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Other iDSD users, how quiet is the iDSD for y'all with headphones? I am using Shure 846s, which are quite low impedance, and get a hiss once the iDSD is plugged into my laptop's USB port and the device is turned on to even the lowest volume on the dial.


----------



## kugino

roscoeiii said:


> Other iDSD users, how quiet is the iDSD for y'all with headphones? I am using Shure 846s, which are quite low impedance, and get a hiss once the iDSD is plugged into my laptop's USB port and the device is turned on to even the lowest volume on the dial.


 
 pretty quiet for me. haven't used my IEMs with them yet - i'll try that later. but i just did a quick check with the Alpha Dogs plugged directly in to them. granted, the ADs are not the easiest to drive, but with the iDSD on full volume, it's 98% black. i say 98% only because i thought i heard a tad bit of something at full volume, but it was ever so slight, if at all.


----------



## Roscoeiii

kugino said:


> pretty quiet for me. haven't used my IEMs with them yet - i'll try that later. but i just did a quick check with the Alpha Dogs plugged directly in to them. granted, the ADs are not the easiest to drive, but with the iDSD on full volume, it's 98% black. i say 98% only because i thought i heard a tad bit of something at full volume, but it was ever so slight, if at all.


 
  
 Thanks. That's a good reference point, since I have a pair of Mad Dogs at work. I will try the iDSD with them tomorrow. And I will see if I hear this when pairing the iDSD with my iBasso amp.


----------



## Watcherq

See my comments: here.  Note that the volume knob is *very* sensitive.  I usually keep it minimum (ie just above the turning on level) before slooowly turning it up.  The max I can go is around the 10 o'clock mark.  With the my setup, the silence is inky black except when jumping between tracks or within a track.  I think it is the iUSB doing the isolation as my laptop is rather noisy.  On a generic Samsung ear piece, if I plug that in the laptop directly, I can even hear the HDD seeking and accessing data.


----------



## Turrican2

roscoeiii said:


> Other iDSD users, how quiet is the iDSD for y'all with headphones? I am using Shure 846s, which are quite low impedance, and get a hiss once the iDSD is plugged into my laptop's USB port and the device is turned on to even the lowest volume on the dial.


 
 it's deadly silent on my setup at work
  
 HP laptop running foobar -> Wire World Ultraviolet USB  cable -> iDSD -> AKG K3003 (8 ohms)
  
 Only 'noise' is when switching from redbook to dsd files, or dsd to dsd file (slight static at the start)
  
 Sounds totally amazing.....
  
 My ibasso DX100 is gathering dust at the moment.


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> Question to iFi: Can you confirm that USB OTG cable works with Android devices?


 

 Yes.
  

Android device that can run Android 4.1 or above
USB Host mode has been enabled by the Android manufacturer
Android device running Android Open Accessory (AOA) protocol version 2.0 (optional)
  
  
*Additional hardware needed:*
 1. OTG Cable





 2. USB A to B adaptor or Short USB A to B cable
  





                                             
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*Additional apps needed:*
 USB Audio Player Pro (USB Audio Recorder Pro will also work)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro




*For a list of Android devices supported:*
http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1140


----------



## iFi audio

iFi Windows 8.1 updated driver.
  
 A new driver is coming in the next few days and once it is ready (compat with Win 8.1) then we'll update you all.
  
  New: Control panel application included.
 * New: Windows 8.1 supported.
 * New: Automatic uninstall of earlier version from 2.0 upwards.
 * Fix: Stream format switching not working for DSD formats.
 * Fix: 32 bit PCM through WASAPI was not working.
  
 thank you


----------



## iFi audio

Hi,
  
 In particular, if you are a Windows 8.1 user, please try this.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/en/download.html
  
 Let us know how you get on: tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 Cheers


----------



## kugino

roscoeiii said:


> Other iDSD users, how quiet is the iDSD for y'all with headphones? I am using Shure 846s, which are quite low impedance, and get a hiss once the iDSD is plugged into my laptop's USB port and the device is turned on to even the lowest volume on the dial.


 
 update: just tested with my IEMs (livewires, pretty sensitive). not totally black. hiss from about 11:00, but most evident at around 2:00. can hear the steps as the volume is turned up...i believe that the iDSD uses digital steps for the volume attenuation. i think iFi explained it a few pages back...i could be wrong. anyway, with my IEMs it's not a totally black background, but i presume it's due to the noisy power from my iMac. when the usb is not plugged in and i turn the unit on to run off the battery, it's dead quiet. i can also test with my iphone/CCK to see what happens.


----------



## Roscoeiii

kugino said:


> update: just tested with my IEMs (livewires, pretty sensitive). not totally black. hiss from about 11:00, but most evident at around 2:00. can hear the steps as the volume is turned up...i believe that the iDSD uses digital steps for the volume attenuation. i think iFi explained it a few pages back...i could be wrong. anyway, with my IEMs it's not a totally black background, but i presume it's due to the noisy power from my iMac. when the usb is not plugged in and i turn the unit on to run off the battery, it's dead quiet. i can also test with my iphone/CCK to see what happens.


 
 Thanks for that update. I need to try another computer's USB port to see if my USB port is the culprit.


----------



## koolas

On headphones (AD, HD570) I never heard any noise from iDSD either when connected to PC or laptop. However when I connected iDSD to T744 post-pre-inputs (direct input to power amp) I heard noise in speakers, and that noise went away when I disconnected USB cable from iDSD. Not sure how to interpret that, some call it ground loop maybe?


----------



## kugino

roscoeiii said:


> Thanks for that update. I need to try another computer's USB port to see if my USB port is the culprit.


 
 fwiw, i hear the same level of noise when hooked up the iphone/CCK. but with the IEMs, 10:00 is already really loud, so whatever noise there is past that, it doesn't interfere with my normal listening levels. when connected via the SE line outputs, iFi said do put the volume to maximum, which then bypasses the digital attenuation. or something like that (the info is a few pages back...i'm too lazy to go back and look for it)


----------



## Typhoon859

Perhaps this comparison was already made and I missed it, but how does this compare in terms of SQ compared to the E17 and/or the E18?  I am very interested in this.  Particularly the amp section is what worries me though which could entirely compromise the point of it's decoding capabilities in the first place.  On devices like this, I'm perhaps obviously looking for as distortion free and low impedance as possible.  Obviously the DNR is also important.  Thanks!


----------



## earwaxxer

typhoon859 said:


> Perhaps this comparison was already made and I missed it, but how does this compare in terms of SQ compared to the E17 and/or the E18?  I am very interested in this.  Particularly the amp section is what worries me though which could entirely compromise the point of it's decoding capabilities in the first place.  On devices like this, I'm perhaps obviously looking for as distortion free and low impedance as possible.  Obviously the DNR is also important.  Thanks!


 

 IMO the amp and volume control on this DAC are one of its strong points, at least in terms of the sound of the line outs. Curious to hear a comparison between the line outs vs the headphone outs by someone who has the kit to make a judgement. I have made other mods to my speaker crossover since I got the iDSD to let it shine in the mids. Worth noting again, the volume control is flaky down toward the lowest setting. Like the iFi guy said - you may need to use a resistor to attenuate the output and raise the volume a bit to avoid that area. I do believe, thought that the volume control in the iDSD is better than even the 64bit digital control in the JRiver.


----------



## Typhoon859

earwaxxer said:


> IMO the amp and volume control on this DAC are one of its strong points, at least in terms of the sound of the line outs. Curious to hear a comparison between the line outs vs the headphone outs by someone who has the kit to make a judgement. I have made other mods to my speaker crossover since I got the iDSD to let it shine in the mids. Worth noting again, the volume control is flaky down toward the lowest setting. Like the iFi guy said - you may need to use a resistor to attenuate the output and raise the volume a bit to avoid that area. I do believe, thought that the volume control in the iDSD is better than even the 64bit digital control in the JRiver.


 
 I see, well in case I wasn't clear, I was particularly more interested in the headphone output rather than the line-out.  The idea for me would be to pair this with my Android device to use as a portable DAC/amp.  Thanks for the input regardless though!


----------



## Dixter

For those of us that would like to have a few true lossless files to test the capabilities of the idsd I found this to try out or just have it available for testing your setup. I don't think you can get much better than this site....( its free )
  
 http://www.2l.no/           in the upper right hand corner is the drop down box... click on Test Bench HD      after the page opens up choose the file format you want to test for the song you are going to download...   it will ask you to log in...  just put in 2L  then  2L      the download will start...   after the file gets downloaded just extract the file and use a proper player for playback... for these types of true lossless files I use JRiver Media Center 19
  
 What is nice about those files is the choice of formats and the fact that the recordings have been chosen for testing purposes...   if you hear any issues while playing these files then you need to examine your setup as there is most likely something wrong in your hardware chain... it wont be the file...


----------



## Dixter

Got a question for those that are using the JRiver Media Center 19 program with the idsd
  
 1) What is the best choice in the Play Options... I'm presently using  " ifi DSD (ifi(by AMR) HD+USB Audio) (WASAPI) "  is there a better choice ??
  
 2) What is the best choice in the DSP Studio...  I'm presently using  " None "
  
 It seems to be working fine... just wanted to make sure this is the proper way to deliver the source to the idsd and let it do the decoding...
  
 3) Any other settings that I might need to have set up ???


----------



## Dixter

typhoon859 said:


> Perhaps this comparison was already made and I missed it, but how does this compare in terms of SQ compared to the E17 and/or the E18?  I am very interested in this.  Particularly the amp section is what worries me though which could entirely compromise the point of it's decoding capabilities in the first place.  On devices like this, I'm perhaps obviously looking for as distortion free and low impedance as possible.  Obviously the DNR is also important.  Thanks!


 

 The amp section seems to be pretty good but it depends on what headphone you plan on driving...   for me I have the idsd strapped to an O2 amp and it works very well with all my headphones
 The idsd will drive all iem and depending on what over the ear phones you have it can drive some very well... for example, it seems to drive the Audio Technica M50 very well...  not so much if I use
 the DT880 or T1... but the O2 pairs very well with the idsd and can drive anything I have... 
  
 As to the noise that some are hearing... my understanding is most DAC's these days turn off the output unless it detects an input signal...  so I'm thinking if your hearing any hiss noise then you might be presenting the DAC with some noise signal from your USB signal chain... easy to test this out... just unplug the USB cable from the idsd... I think this may be the reason ifi sells special USB solutions as that area can be a source for noise...
  
 There are two other area's that produce noise/clicking...  1) When a song starts there can be a click as the DAC starts the decode process 2) You can hear the stepping of the attenuator when you rock the volume control back and forth at high level settings...  this really isn't a problem for me as I use the headphone jack as a line out (turned all the way up) and use the O2 volume control.  Its not a loud click... just that you can/will hear it... 
  
 I like the idsd, it works well with my Iphone/Ipad/PC  it works great as a portable DAC/Amp, it works great as a Preamp/DAC for my IPad to Woo amp  setup
 I don't think it would make a great commute solution, as in your pocket type solution... but it is portable for say like an airplane ride or motel stay while away from home...


----------



## Typhoon859

dixter said:


> The amp section seems to be pretty good but it depends on what headphone you plan on driving...   for me I have the idsd strapped to an O2 amp and it works very well with all my headphones
> The idsd will drive all iem and depending on what over the ear phones you have it can drive some very well... for example, it seems to drive the Audio Technica M50 very well...  not so much if I use
> the DT880 or T1... but the O2 pairs very well with the idsd and can drive anything I have...
> 
> ...



Thanks for your sum up!


----------



## koolas

dixter said:


> The amp section seems to be pretty good but it depends on what headphone you plan on driving...




iDSD drived Momentum quite decent, but with HD570 turning volume knob beyond 3/4 doesn't change volume any more. With Alpha Dogs volume changes to the end of scale, but it absolutely doesn't compare to the power Pan Am delivers them. So my conclusions is that iDSD has decent amp, but will drive well either less power hungry headphones, or you will be listening at less than optimal volume levels. I say less than optimal, but it's my personal no-no, caused by the fact that I don't have to listen straight from iDSD, and I can always connect it to Pan Am. If you plan to use iDSD as amp, then I would say in its price level I don't really think you will be able to find better DAC/amp combo. Some say O2 is quite competitive, however I don't remember it supporting DSD or even DXD formats... And it is more expensive than iDSD, so I think iDSD is the king of the hill. I can honestly recommend it to even the most demanding users.


----------



## koolas

A question: there are these nice straps included with iDSD. I presume they are for iPhone, but it's a phone. Why would I buy a phone to serve as music transport - I have no idea... So the question is: does iDSD support iPod? or any other (trans)portable transport ?


----------



## kugino

koolas said:


> A question: there are these nice straps included with iDSD. I presume they are for iPhone, but it's a phone. Why would I buy a phone to serve as music transport - I have no idea... So the question is: does iDSD support iPod? or any other (trans)portable transport ?


if your device can support USB out, then it will work with the iDSD. On the iPhone and ipad, you can use the camera connection kit (CCK) to connect to the iDSD. Using an app like onkyo hf player, you can then push DSD, flac, etc files to the iDSD. So, the iPhone can, with the right equipment and apps, be a very capable transport. 

One other plus of the iDSD is that it also serves as a USB to SPDIF converter. For a portable device at its price range, it might not to everything perfectly, but it does a lot of things well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## earwaxxer

dixter said:


> Got a question for those that are using the JRiver Media Center 19 program with the idsd
> 
> 1) What is the best choice in the Play Options... I'm presently using  " ifi DSD (ifi(by AMR) HD+USB Audio) (WASAPI) "  is there a better choice ??
> 
> ...


 

 Its funny you should ask that because I was just fixing to give some impressions about how I have been experimenting with JRiver. LOVE that program BTW, I have been listening to my 16/44.1 native through JRiver (no change selected in the DSP) for some time, letting iDSD do the oversample. At first I thought that 'no change' sounded the best.
  
 Just today I let JRiver give it a crack by changing the sample rate in the DSP settings to first 24/192, then 24/384. The iDSD played both with no problem. I'm pretty sure I heard the sound 'tighten up" with the upsample done by JRiver. before it gets to the DAC. No real difference between 24/192 and 24/384. At the same time I tried selecting 2xDSD in JRiver to compare to the PCM sample rate sound. No difference noticed at the time. I figured to do this test now because I have fully acclimated to the sound of the iDSD, and could probably be in a better 'memory' space to hear a difference. WASAPI and AISO are the same in terms of sound from what I can gather. WASAPI is what I use. - cheers! -
  
 - one other observation, when I listened to the 2xDSD upsample in JRiver I noticed that my speakers became more 'directional'. They are directional as is, but I had to move one an inch or so to get a good focus on the sound from the sitting position. Not sure how to interpret that, either as a negative or a positive.....


----------



## Typhoon859

Guys, when I asked about the amp, I wasn't asking how hard it could drive pointless headphones (imo).  I was asking in terms of sound quality and how it compares to some other well known amps like ones by FiiO.  For me, I'm sure it'll be able to drive any headphones I care about.


----------



## Dixter

koolas said:


> iDSD drived Momentum quite decent, but with HD570 turning volume knob beyond 3/4 doesn't change volume any more. With Alpha Dogs volume changes to the end of scale, but it absolutely doesn't compare to the power Pan Am delivers them. So my conclusions is that iDSD has decent amp, but will drive well either less power hungry headphones, or you will be listening at less than optimal volume levels. I say less than optimal, but it's my personal no-no, caused by the fact that I don't have to listen straight from iDSD, and I can always connect it to Pan Am. If you plan to use iDSD as amp, then I would say in its price level I don't really think you will be able to find better DAC/amp combo. Some say O2 is quite competitive, however I don't remember it supporting DSD or even DXD formats... And it is more expensive than iDSD, so I think iDSD is the king of the hill. I can honestly recommend it to even the most demanding users.


 

 You might be confusing the ODAC with the O2...     The O2 is just an amp...  when combined with the idsd it just uppes the power of the idsd amp...   So in that reguard the O2 does support DSD/FLAC/DXD formats quite well...


----------



## koolas

dixter said:


> You might be confusing the ODAC with the O2...     The O2 is just an amp...  when combined with the idsd it just uppes the power of the idsd amp...   So in that reguard the O2 does support DSD/FLAC/DXD formats quite well...




That's true O2 is amp, and ODAC is DAC, but they also sell combo of these two in one box. The ODAC (according to their web page) supports only PCM and only up to 96/24. Pricewise on UK EBay the ODAC+O2 combo is priced at iDSD price. Featurewise O2 is more powerful, iDSD supports more formats. Thus I assume someone could make a comparison of these two boxes.


----------



## koolas

kugino said:


> if your device can support USB out, then it will work with the iDSD. On the iPhone and ipad, you can use the camera connection kit (CCK) to connect to the iDSD. Using an app like onkyo hf player, you can then push DSD, flac, etc files to the iDSD. So, the iPhone can, with the right equipment and apps, be a very capable transport.
> 
> One other plus of the iDSD is that it also serves as a USB to SPDIF converter. For a portable device at its price range, it might not to everything perfectly, but it does a lot of things well.
> 
> ...




I don't think you understood my question. I was asking what devices that *are not* an iPhone and *are not a phone* can be used with iDSD. I was asking if any version of iPod would work. I was also asking if there are any other transport options that would work with iDSD.

Also it is not true what you say, not every device with USB will work with iDSD, for example my N900 does not, and I'm pretty sure not every Android device would, actually I think only few would. 

Also tablets are not good option - how are you going to strap tablet to iDSD?

I would like to know if there is any other device besides iPhone that can be used with iDSD. Thanks!

Quite honestly I would love to see iFi releasing their own transport, and it would be super awesome if all it had vast amount of memory (>=64GB) and only one port - just USB and no analogue output.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Well, it seems pretty standard to report on how well an amp does with hard-to-drive headphones and with sensitive IEMs. Helps give an idea of potential limitations, even though many great headphones call between those extremes. Not to mention that for owners of headphones on these extremes, these are quite important points.


----------



## Typhoon859

roscoeiii said:


> Well, it seems pretty standard to report on how well an amp does with hard-to-drive headphones and with sensitive IEMs. Helps give an idea of potential limitations, even though many great headphones call between those extremes. Not to mention that for owners of headphones on these extremes, these are quite important points.




Well of course! I wouldn't deny that. However, I do think that would be the starting point anyway. I imagine you'd still want to know it's signature sound or even further characteristics. The kind of headphones it could drive you can more or less tell from the specs.


----------



## hugoboss

i am very interesting with ifi products, but can't find one in indonesia, do you have any dealer here , spe iallyin jakarta, i don,t want to buy online becuase indonesia custom tax is so high and ridiciluous


----------



## WNBC

I did a super quick read through this thread so I may not have grasped all of the potential advantages/disadvantages...
  
 1.)  Seems that some people are having with USB3.0 ports of the latest MacBook Pro which I do use.  If I use a USB2.0 hub with the iFi Nano iDSD then there is no problem?  A decent short-term workaround until the new firmware is ready.
  
 2.)  Is there a reason I may want the iDAC over the iDSD?  Lets forget about the DSD playback for this question.  I would use the iDSD with a Bottlehead Crack amp and some IEMs.  Does the iDAC having a more powerful headphone output which would make the iDSD better for sensitive IEMs?  iPhone 4S as a transport will play a small role as well for me but not crucial in decision making.
  
 After thinking about the various options out there in the sub $300 realm of DACs the iDSD appears to be a clear winner for me.


----------



## kugino

wnbc said:


> I did a super quick read through this thread so I may not have grasped all of the potential advantages/disadvantages...
> 
> 1.)  Seems that some people are having with USB3.0 ports of the latest MacBook Pro which I do use.  If I use a USB2.0 hub with the iFi Nano iDSD then there is no problem?  A decent short-term workaround until the new firmware is ready.
> 
> ...


 
 some general differences:
  
 1. iDSD is much smaller, so that might make a difference to you
 2. iDAC uses a different DAC chip (ESS Sabre), so if you like that chip, it might suit you better
 3. iDSD had a SPDIF output, so in effect, acts as a USB->SPDIF converter, which could be useful
  
 i do believe the iDAC is a bit more powerful. for a truly portable solution, looks like the iDSD might be better, but i've never heard/used the iDAC, so can't say for certain.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  iDSD is in my immediate future.  I can always try the iDAC later on for comparison. 
  
 Quote:


kugino said:


> some general differences:
> 
> 1. iDSD is much smaller, so that might make a difference to you
> 2. iDAC uses a different DAC chip (ESS Sabre), so if you like that chip, it might suit you better
> ...


----------



## KmanChu

I was looking at the same choice. I simply wanted the best sounding playback into a standalone headphone amp from the line outs in a desktop setup. Vince from iFi said the iDAC was the slightly better sounding unit in that scenario because the output stage is more sophisticated. I use it with the ifi iUSB power supply which is a notable improvement over being driven directly by the computer USB power. I difference especially when driving headphones directly (which takes more juice than just running into a line in stage.) The iDAC has a decent headphone amp.
  
 All that said, I think the main selling point of the iDSD (other than it's greater format flexibility)  is its internal battery for portable use. It was put to me this way:
  
 best sound in a computer setup --> iDAC
 almost as good sound from a portable (iphone/android) setup --> iDSD


----------



## WNBC

This is a tough decision which is why I haven't ordered the iDSD even though I almost pulled the trigger last night.
  
 I do prefer top sound over anything else so the iDAC is my new leaning.  However, if one can wait, there is a case to be made for the portable Nano iDSD and the eventual Mini iDSD coming out.  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/ifi-idsd-mini-dac
  
 What a hobby this is planning out future purchases 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
 Quote:


kmanchu said:


> I was looking at the same choice. I simply wanted the best sounding playback into a standalone headphone amp from the line outs in a desktop setup. Vince from iFi said the iDAC was the slightly better sounding unit in that scenario because the output stage is more sophisticated. I use it with the ifi iUSB power supply which is a notable improvement over being driven directly by the computer USB power. I difference especially when driving headphones directly (which takes more juice than just running into a line in stage.) The iDAC has a decent headphone amp.
> 
> All that said, I think the main selling point of the iDSD (other than it's greater format flexibility)  is its internal battery for portable use. It was put to me this way:
> 
> ...


----------



## KmanChu

wnbc said:


>


 
 That would be a plan. Did you see the iFi-mini thread? 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-mini-desktop-line-discussion-thread
  
 It looks like the mini iDSD will have a pretty hefty amp section that could power almost anything, but there will also be a mini iCAN as well. At about ~$1000 the mini iDSD would a very careful purchase for me. At $200 the nano iDSD is a "why-not?" type of purchase (that I may just get out of curiosity.)


----------



## earwaxxer

I would highly recommend the iDSD using its line out. Again, headphone duty can place some special demands on a DAC. I run mine direct to my Emotiva XPA-2. Fantastic. Laptop up front with JRiver. Its all good. For under $200. It kicks the pants off my Gungnir. No contest.


----------



## KmanChu

earwaxxer said:


> It kicks the pants off my Gungnir.


 
  
 I have never been a huge fan of anything Schiit, but that is a big statement. Cool.


----------



## WNBC

I did not see this thread.  Thanks.  Subbed.  Definitely, at $200 the nano-iDSD is a why not type of purchase indeed.  I'm just trying to break the buy-sell habit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
  
  
 Quote:


kmanchu said:


> That would be a plan. Did you see the iFi-mini thread?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-mini-desktop-line-discussion-thread
> 
> It looks like the mini iDSD will have a pretty hefty amp section that could power almost anything, but there will also be a mini iCAN as well. At about ~$1000 the mini iDSD would a very careful purchase for me. At $200 the nano iDSD is a "why-not?" type of purchase (that I may just get out of curiosity.)


----------



## koolas

I am more interested in iPlayer that does not exist and I feel it would be great pairing to iDSD on the go!


----------



## juliusthecat

I had issues with RCA outputs - distorted sound but the 1/8inch was fine.  Musicdirect did a nice job sending me a replacement, which ought to arrive tomorrow.  I have been using with JBL LSR305 monitors, (using a RCA to XLR cable) which  I also recommend.


----------



## iFi audio

juliusthecat said:


> I had issues with RCA outputs - distorted sound but the 1/8inch was fine.  Musicdirect did a nice job sending me a replacement, which ought to arrive tomorrow.  I have been using with JBL LSR305 monitors, (using a RCA to XLR cable) which  I also recommend.


 
 Hi,
  
 If this is the iDAC, when using RCAs. the solution is to turn the vol to zero. As there are two circuits, one for RCAs and one for 3.5mm. They cant be both used simultaneously.
  
 If it is the iDSD, then could we trouble you to email tech@ifi-audio.com with info on the RCA>XLR cables?
  
 thanks


----------



## Jazzyfi

I've read several different comments regarding idsd pairing with fostex t50rp. Is it actually strong enough to drive the Mad Dog 3.2? Anybody can comment on that? I'm torn between the idsd and idac. The €100 price difference makes me think that the idac is now outdated and overpriced.


----------



## kugino

jazzyfi said:


> I've read several different comments regarding idsd pairing with fostex t50rp. Is it actually strong enough to drive the Mad Dog 3.2? Anybody can comment on that? I'm torn between the idsd and idac. The €100 price difference makes me think that the idac is now outdated and overpriced.


 
 i used the iDSD with the alpha dogs. they powered the ADs ok, but not great. you could feel the iDSD straining as the volume went up and up. it's really not meant to power the AD/mad dogs. my grado sr60 is fine with them...IEMs are good, too, though the background isn't entirely black. i really feel like the iDSD mates well with low-impedance cans, but not with the super-sensitive IEMs. just my opinion.


----------



## b0ssMax

Sadly not even the importer can tell me when or even if idsd units are coming in. :mad:

If i do get an ifi product i'd rather get it from another country. Most likely in the us this april.


----------



## Jazzyfi

Thanks for the reply. I think alpha dog is more difficult to drive than mad dog but probably idsd still won't cut it like what you said. I think I'll go for centrance m8. It seems that it can power everything.


----------



## koolas

kugino said:


> i used the iDSD with the alpha dogs. they powered the ADs ok, but not great. you could feel the iDSD straining as the volume went up and up. it's really not meant to power the AD/mad dogs. my grado sr60 is fine with them...IEMs are good, too, though the background isn't entirely black. i really feel like the iDSD mates well with low-impedance cans, but not with the super-sensitive IEMs. just my opinion.



I have noticed significant change in SQ when I had to switch Today from iDSD + Pan Am to iDSD alone. I had to switch, because Passport went dead. I have noticed that lots of bass was missing. iDSD doesn't have enough power to supply proper punch. Otherwise than that SQ was great. Mids felt slightly exaggerated, but this because of weak bass. I have driven Momentum straight from iDSD and haven't noticed such degradation.


----------



## kugino

yeah, i had the same experience. i think the momentums are the kind of headphone that is perfectly suited for the iDSD - easy to drive, nice bass...ADs need something with more power. interested to see how the different flavors of the geek outs will do with the ADs.


----------



## Jazzyfi

I settled for the DACPort. I need it as small as possible but still powerful enough for MD. My new office is flex style so I can't really put stationary rig.


----------



## WNBC

Received my iDSD from MusicDirect today.  Listening to a pair of RE-400 IEMs with the iDSD.  Really nice DAC.  Plenty of details and quite engaging.  Amp section provides sufficient soundstage depth and width.  I'm not going to make too many statements after 5 minutes of listening.  I hope to get it hooked up to my Bottlehead Crack amp as soon as I get some headphones for it.
  
 The bad news...
 My listening so far is using my iPhone 4S as a source.  When I hooked up the iDSD to my Macbook Pro (late 2013 model) it is recognized by my computer as well as by the Amarra software.  However, there is a communication error somewhere in the link because while recognized by computer the songs will not play, literally stuck at 0 seconds.  This is the same whether I try playback using iTunes or even YouTube.  All stopped, no playing.  Computer is fine, it's not frozen.
  
 I also tried using a USB2.0 hub into my USB3.0 ports of my MacBook.  Same situation.
  
 I knew of these problems going in but I thought going into the USB2.0 hub would be a fix so I talked myself into getting the iDSD over the iDAC.  I can live with this problem short-term but how far away is the fix?  If far away I may return and just get the iDAC.


----------



## philus

Hi, I have been using the iDSD for couple of weeks and greatly enjoy the sound quality from this device. I have thus far tried hires tracks up to DXD and DSD64 with JRiver19 (in Windows 8) with WASAPI without any problems. But recently I downloaded a DSD128 file from 2L, and has not been able to play the track properly. The track can initially be played, but experienced lots of pops and skips, but half-way thru, everything freezes, and I can see the LED light on the iDSD flashing different colors (instead of just Magenta), seems to me the device is unable to lock-in the data-stream. At this point, the device seems to quit working properly cos' when I switch to other audio tracks (44.1, 96, 192, DXD, DSD64), there is no audio output. I would need to turn the device off and on again to resume proper operation.
  
 Would like to get the experts advice on what's going on. I downloaded the latest driver from iFi which did not help. Tried playing around with JRiver19 settings (buffer etc) to no avail.
  
 A side note, I don't use ASIO because in my set-up, ASIO can't even play DSD64, left alone DSD128. Wondering if anyone has similar experience. Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

philus said:


> Hi, I have been using the iDSD for couple of weeks and greatly enjoy the sound quality from this device. I have thus far tried hires tracks up to DXD and DSD64 with JRiver19 (in Windows 8) with WASAPI without any problems. But recently I downloaded a DSD128 file from 2L, and has not been able to play the track properly. The track can initially be played, but experienced lots of pops and skips, but half-way thru, everything freezes, and I can see the LED light on the iDSD flashing different colors (instead of just Magenta), seems to me the device is unable to lock-in the data-stream. At this point, the device seems to quit working properly cos' when I switch to other audio tracks (44.1, 96, 192, DXD, DSD64), there is no audio output. I would need to turn the device off and on again to resume proper operation.
> 
> Would like to get the experts advice on what's going on. I downloaded the latest driver from iFi which did not help. Tried playing around with JRiver19 settings (buffer etc) to no avail.
> 
> A side note, I don't use ASIO because in my set-up, ASIO can't even play DSD64, left alone DSD128. Wondering if anyone has similar experience. Thanks.


 
 Hi,
  
 To answer your questions:
  
 1. In JRMC 19 ASIO must be set to DoP for DSD, or iDSD will not play DSD. Can you confirm this?
  

  
  
 - Set DSD to 'Bitstreaming' > DoP (because under WASAPI ONLY DoP allows PCM).
  
 Note: Under ASIO it is possible to use ASIO 2.1 and 2.2 Extensions combined to send DSD without DoP (it is rare though), so ASIO gives a choice.
  
 2. The stuttering File, ask customer to download a few different ones? Generally, if DXD or 384KHz plays no problem then DSD128 should. Is it related to JRMC settings in 1.?
  
  
 thank you.
  
 Owen


----------



## iFi audio

philus said:


> Hi, I have been using the iDSD for couple of weeks and greatly enjoy the sound quality from this device. I have thus far tried hires tracks up to DXD and DSD64 with JRiver19 (in Windows 8) with WASAPI without any problems. But recently I downloaded a DSD128 file from 2L, and has not been able to play the track properly. The track can initially be played, but experienced lots of pops and skips, but half-way thru, everything freezes, and I can see the LED light on the iDSD flashing different colors (instead of just Magenta), seems to me the device is unable to lock-in the data-stream. At this point, the device seems to quit working properly cos' when I switch to other audio tracks (44.1, 96, 192, DXD, DSD64), there is no audio output. I would need to turn the device off and on again to resume proper operation.
> 
> Would like to get the experts advice on what's going on. I downloaded the latest driver from iFi which did not help. Tried playing around with JRiver19 settings (buffer etc) to no avail.
> 
> A side note, I don't use ASIO because in my set-up, ASIO can't even play DSD64, left alone DSD128. Wondering if anyone has similar experience. Thanks.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 1. See below for JRMC19 settings (DoP)
  
 2. Some new laptops with a certain chipset in the USB3.0 port does not function with USB peripherals such as the iDSD (some HDDs etc)
  
 There is a possible workaround here:
 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=659516757417403&set=a.461191017249979.95398.460963790606035&type=1&theater
  
 We are working on the firmware but it is a major revision. If you would like to be one of the first to test it as soon as it is ready, could we trouble you to ping: tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 Any questions, please ask.
  
 thanks
  
 Owen


----------



## philus

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I can play DSD64 tracks now after setting DoP in ASIO (I guess that is what I miss out in JRMC19).
  
 But my original problem still remains... Regardless whether I'm using ASIO or WASAPI, I can play DXD and DSD64 tracks but have problems with DSD128. The iDSD device will stutter half-way through the track, with LED blinking different colors and freezes up. And strangely thereafter, when I play any tracks of any resolution even down to 44.1, there is no audio output, only way to recover is when I do a power down/up.
  
 I am using USB2.0.
  
 Tried another different DSD128 track from 2L, this time I can play it thru 2 times, but the third time, the stuttering and freeze up occurs again. Unless the DSD128 files from 2L have problems... Quite puzzling.


----------



## iFi audio

philus said:


> But my original problem still remains... Regardless whether I'm using ASIO or WASAPI, I can play DXD and DSD64 tracks but have problems with DSD128. The iDSD device will stutter half-way through the track, with LED blinking different colors and freezes up. And strangely thereafter, when I play any tracks of any resolution even down to 44.1, there is no audio output, only way to recover is when I do a power down/up.
> 
> I am using USB2.0.
> 
> Tried another different DSD128 track from 2L, this time I can play it thru 2 times, but the third time, the stuttering and freeze up occurs again. Unless the DSD128 files from 2L have problems... Quite puzzling.


 
 Hi,
  
 Glad to help you look into DoP settings.
  
 With this glitch on JRMC, can you try Foobar2k or an alternative to JRMC19?
  
 Options are:
 Signalyst HQ Player trial:
 http://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html
  
 Foobar 2K (free):
 http://www.foobar2000.org/
  
 or if you have access to a Mac, could you install Audirvana Trial and try that?
  
 Let us know how you get on.
  
 thank you
  
 Owen


----------



## MLGrado

I have the same exact problem with the iDSD and JRMC19 and Windows 7.  The light will switch indicating a change in sample rate, but no audio output.   I try restarting, plugging and unplugging the cables, all manner of settings.  Finally I tried flipping the filter switch and resetting my Jriver output settings.  Voila!  It worked.  But that may have just been a random coincidence.  It has done this a couple of times.  I have eventually gotten the device to reset to normal operation, but just am vexed since I am unsure anything I actually did was the fix.  
  
 Also, JRMC indicates that the bitrate output for all PCM signals is 32 bit.  Regardless of the actual file bitrate.  It is set to auto mode.  I can force the bitrate, but it won't auto output correctly.  
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Glad to help you look into DoP settings.
> 
> ...


----------



## WNBC

I also am using the 2L website for free DSD/DXD files.  The DSD64 and DXD files are playing fine through JRiver on a Windows 7 machine.  DSD128 causes JRiver to pause and ask if I want to try a lower bitrate.  When I say yes it is fine and it plays no problem.  Glad I got to hear DSD files through the iDSD.  The Macbook is my primary laptop so I'm looking forward to when the new firmware is ready.
  
 Is anybody hearing a difference between DSD vs FLAC from the 2L files?  I'm going to try this comparison soon.


----------



## john57

I am using the files from Channel Classics. I can hear the differences between various PCM rates and DSD.


----------



## Pentagonal

Hi,I am considering purchasing a USB 3.0 cable and am wondering how the iDSD would operate in 2.0 vs 3.0. More specifically, I am wondering if there would be an increase in sound quality in 3.0 from there being more signal bandwidth, better interface, etc. 
  
 Has anyone compared the two?
  
 With thanks, 
 Pentagonal


----------



## technobear

pentagonal said:


> Hi,I am considering purchasing a USB 3.0 cable and am wondering how the iDSD would operate in 2.0 vs 3.0. More specifically, I am wondering if there would be an increase in sound quality in 3.0 from there being more signal bandwidth, better interface, etc.




The iDSD is a USB 2.0 device.


----------



## Destarter11

I bought my IFI Nano IDSD to hook up on my phone. Everybody is talking about using Onkyo HD or FLAC player, to play high resolution files on there iphone, but the storage capacity on a phone is not enough for me. At the moment I'm using an Iphone 4s and have about 3 GB storage left, that's why I installed a steaming app called Isub. When playing high resolution FLAC files from my PC I can see on the DAC (different color lights) it's converting all the different formats/ frequencies (48kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz, etc). When playing the same songs using Isub on my iphone, the audio signal to the DAC only seems to be 44/48kHz. No matter which format I play. The Isub player itself shows the right format information, but it's actually not sending it to my IFI DAC. Active transcoding is turn off so it shouldn't down covert it to a lower bitrate. Has anybody experience with streaming high resolution files (96 to 192 kHz) to there iphone that actually also will be send to the DAC via the CCK?


----------



## WNBC

I am using iPhone 4S + CCK + iDSD and it is sending 24/96 and 24/192 correctly to the iDSD based on the color of the LED.  I did have to go into the Onkyo menu and change upsampling from "48 kHz" to "off".  This should do the trick for you.
  
  
 Quote:


destarter11 said:


> I bought my IFI Nano IDSD to hook up on my phone. Everybody is talking about using Onkyo HD or FLAC player, to play high resolution files on there iphone, but the storage capacity on a phone is not enough for me. At the moment I'm using an Iphone 4s and have about 3 GB storage left, that's why I installed a steaming app called Isub. When playing high resolution FLAC files from my PC I can see on the DAC (different color lights) it's converting all the different formats/ frequencies (48kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz, etc). When playing the same songs using Isub on my iphone, the audio signal to the DAC only seems to be 44/48kHz. No matter which format I play. The Isub player itself shows the right format information, but it's actually not sending it to my IFI DAC. Active transcoding is turn off so it shouldn't down covert it to a lower bitrate. Has anybody experience with streaming high resolution files (96 to 192 kHz) to there iphone that actually also will be send to the DAC via the CCK?


----------



## Destarter11

> I am using iPhone 4S + CCK + iDSD and it is sending 24/96 and 24/192 correctly to the iDSD based on the color of the LED.  I did have to go into the Onkyo menu and change upsampling from "48 kHz" to "off".  This should do the trick for you.


 
  
 I know it's working using the Onkyo player, my question was if anybody managed to *stream* and play 24/96 and 24/192 files. Like for example I use Isub for this. As far as I know the Onkyo is only a player not able to use for streaming.
 If I want to use the Onkyo player I only can play up to 3GB of music, because my iphone only has 3GB storage left. Isub is a nice streaming player and it enable to play all my 600GB of music files from my home. It accept to play 24/96 and 24/192 files, but it's send to my IF DAC as 16/44.


----------



## earwaxxer

destarter11 said:


> I know it's working using the Onkyo player, my question was if anybody managed to *stream* and play 24/96 and 24/192 files. Like for example I use Isub for this. As far as I know the Onkyo is only a player not able to use for streaming.
> If I want to use the Onkyo player I only can play up to 3GB of music, because my iphone only has 3GB storage left. Isub is a nice streaming player and it enable to play all my 600GB of music files from my home. It accept to play 24/96 and 24/192 files, but it's send to my IF DAC as 16/44.


 
 Simple solution --- use a computer


----------



## iFi audio

Hi All,
  
 You are all invited to the Crowd-Design (not Crowd-Funding) party here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/ifi-skunkworks-micro-idsd-crowd-design-by-you-for-you/30
  
 The top 10 most-valuable contributors to the features of the micro iDSD will receive a brand-spanking new, super-hot micro iDSD. See you there!
  
 thank you


----------



## koolas

pentagonal said:


> Hi,I am considering purchasing a USB 3.0 cable and am wondering how the iDSD would operate in 2.0 vs 3.0. More specifically, I am wondering if there would be an increase in sound quality in 3.0 from there being more signal bandwidth, better interface, etc.
> 
> Has anyone compared the two?
> 
> ...




Interestingly I bought USB3.0 cable, and it seems to work better than USB2.0 cable when connected to USB3.0 port in my desktop. Nevertheless USB3.0 cable didn't fix issue on my laptop, i.e. I can't use USB3.0 port on my laptop with iDSD regardless of cable, but iDSD works perfectly on USB2.0 port on that laptop.

So I'd say USB3.0 cable most likely won't fix anything (didn't fix my laptop), but it may sometimes improve things a bit (e.g. my desktop).



technobear said:


> The iDSD is a USB 2.0 device.




If it is USB2.0 device, then why it fails to work with USB3.0 ports? For example my mouse, which is USB2.0 device works perfectly with all USB3.0 ports I have around... I suspect there is something USB3.0 in there... Why is USB socket in iDSD a USB3.0 socket? Does it have SS pins unconnected?


----------



## technobear

koolas said:


> If it is USB2.0 device, then why it fails to work with USB3.0 ports? For example my mouse, which is USB2.0 device works perfectly with all USB3.0 ports I have around... I suspect there is something USB3.0 in there... Why is USB socket in iDSD a USB3.0 socket? Does it have SS pins unconnected?




According to the manufacturer's Tech Specs here: http://ifi-audio.com/en/nano_iDSD.html it is a USB 2.0 device. 

The socket does look as though it is USB 3.0 compatible but I suspect it is physical only.

It has been well written about for over a year now that many USB 3.0 implementations on PCs, laptops and particularly Macs don't fully meet the USB 3.0 standard and don't play nice with many DACs.


----------



## earwaxxer

Time for an update - I've learned lots about this little puppy since I've had it.... One thing people need to be aware of when it comes to all of this laptop as music server business. You really need to be prepared to deal with the usual 'computer' challenges and all the stuff that goes with trying to get hardware/software/peripherals etc to talk to each other and get along. I'm a computer enthusiast going into this whole thing, and it still can be a challenge. 
  
With that preface, now to the good stuff, I really do like the sound of this kit. After some months of experimenting with some of the numerous variables available both with using Sox/foobar and JRiver in the software side of things, I think I have come to a conclusion. It took some time to get here, and a lot of familiarity with the sound of the various pieces of the system and how they work, or dont work together. 
  
 DSD is the winner. -  At first I set it up to play 24/192 PCM because it seemed to sound as good as DSD on first blush. After a time I was hearing some 'chinks' in the armor. Thats usually a good time to make a change that has been in the back of my mind. I was already listening to 24/192 upsampled by Sox with foobar and played native through JRiver. This ended up sounding better than straight redbook through JRiver. Part of the reason is the ability to allow aliasing and add dither, as well as using min phase with Sox. Min phase is also available - switchable - on the iDSD but the effect is minimal IMO (pun intended).
  
 So here's the recipe that I am enjoying at this point in time, and real happy with the results: 16/44.1 upsampled to 24/192 min phase, allow aliasing, add dither using SOx with foobar, play this with JRiver with 2x DSD set in the DSP. Its a bit taxing on the old laptop but it works. Nice smooth music, good prat, definition, lack of hash or grain. - all good. cheers -


----------



## bala

That is great news earwaxxer, been playing around the Microstreamer for about two weeks now and it is good. However, the iDSD seems to offer much more for the same price range....and from your impressions the performance seems to be better! Time to send the microstreamer back I suppose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## john57

earwaxxer said:


> DSD is the winner. -  At first I set it up to play 24/192 PCM because it seemed to sound as good as DSD on first blush. After a time I was hearing some 'chinks' in the armor. Thats usually a good time to make a change that has been in the back of my mind. I was already listening to 24/192 upsampled by Sox with foobar and played native through JRiver. This ended up sounding better than straight redbook through JRiver. Part of the reason is the ability to allow aliasing and add dither, as well as using min phase with Sox. Min phase is also available - switchable - on the iDSD but the effect is minimal IMO (pun intended).
> So here's the recipe that I am enjoying at this point in time, and real happy with the results: 16/44.1 upsampled to 24/192 min phase, allow aliasing, add dither using SOx with foobar, play this with JRiver with 2x DSD set in the DSP. Its a bit taxing on the old laptop but it works. Nice smooth music, good prat, definition, lack of hash or grain. - all good. cheers -


 
 I never used foobar so did you used a modified SOx plugin and what version level were you using?


----------



## koolas

Yesterday, I just tried iDSD with Moto G and it didn't work. Again Pan Am did work (plug-and-play), and iDSD didn't. Moto G has Jelly Bean. It can be upgraded to KitKat, but I doubt it would solve the issue. I suspect that the only portable device that iDSD is working with is iPhone 5, and even that I am not sure of.

I've got a question to iFi: Did you test iDSD with any Android devices?


----------



## earwaxxer

john57 said:


> I never used foobar so did you used a modified SOx plugin and what version level were you using?


 
 Hey John - you can get the SoX plugin here:
 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=67373
 If you are familiar with foobar, you just drop the dll in the components folder and then select it in foobar. SoX is a good free SRC. If you want to familiarize with SRC specs etc this is a good site.
 http://src.infinitewave.ca/
  
 I like SoX because it has very little aliasing (black background on the scope). The other alternative is to pay $1600 for Weiss Saracon.


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> Yesterday, I just tried iDSD with Moto G and it didn't work. Again Pan Am did work (plug-and-play), and iDSD didn't. Moto G has Jelly Bean. It can be upgraded to KitKat, but I doubt it would solve the issue. I suspect that the only portable device that iDSD is working with is iPhone 5, and even that I am not sure of.
> 
> I've got a question to iFi: Did you test iDSD with any Android devices?


 
 Hi,
  
 All AMR/iFi products are all USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant.
  
 OS X already is, Windows needs the driver.
  
 As for Android because it is open-source, it is unfortunately a machine-by-machine basis.
  
 Software-wise, the particular Android device must be:
  
 1. USB Host mode MUST be supported and
 2. USB Audio Class Compliant
  
 Further:
 3. for High-Resolution playback, it needs extra software.
  
  
 A good test of whether or not your Android device is compatible or not is to install the trial version of USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP).
 http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/
 (this also has an ever growing list of compatible and non-compatible devices-it shows each particular model)
  
  
 If UAPP works, you are good to go. 
  
 UAPP works often even if the Device itself does not support USB Audio Class. So, to plug in iDSD and to get audio you need:
 i. Host mode
 ii. OTG adapter and
 iii. USB Audio Class support.
  
 If no USB Audio Class support or if HD needed - use UAPP.
  
 We have a pdf Android instruction sheet which neatly summarises all this. Just email: tech@ifi-audio.com and we'll send you a copy.


----------



## iFi audio

Here is a very nice and complimentary review of the nano iDSD. We hope you like it.
  
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audio-creative.nl%2Fhifi%2Fifi-nano-idsd%2F
  
 He also measured the nano iDSD with his Audio Precision 2 which is the exact same machine we have here at base.
  
 Triode Dick aka Dick van de Merwe - has been reviewing for quite some years.
  
 The Metrum Hex which was the nano iDSD was compared against is Euro2.850.


----------



## Incognito73

Question for iFi people.
  
 Is there any indication when the new firmware release will be readily available, or at least on beta level? Trouble is ... I have iDSD on 7 days trial and it's absolutely unusable when paired with motherboards/systems with the latest USB3 chipsets (Intel xHCI namely).  I have new Z87 chipset motheboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) and MacBook Air from the late 2013. In both cases, outcome is that iDSD starts to stream nicely and then just dies after completely random time interval. Only way to recover iDSD is to unplug and plug again. For the PC, only "solution" is that I disable USB3 support in bios (so that USB3 ports are running in USB2 mode) and in that case iDSD seems stable. For the MacBook Air (as originally planned as iDSD portable HiFi set-up) I just don't how is there any remedy available.
  
 I'm really surprised that unit was slipped in production with such major flaw. Intel xHCI is not some esoteric USB3 chipset and it's pretty much mainstream these days, so it's just baffling how come that more in-depth testing was not done.
  
 As I can't extend my 7 days trial (bought it online and e-tailer is offering 7 days return) not sure what to do ... as one may classify this as faulty product, indeed, unless there is firm assurance that fix is on the horizon.


----------



## john57

incognito73 said:


> Question for iFi people.
> 
> Is there any indication when the new firmware release will be readily available, or at least on beta level? Trouble is ... I have iDSD on 7 days trial and it's absolutely unusable when paired with motherboards/systems with the latest USB3 chipsets (Intel xHCI namely).  I have new Z87 chipset motheboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) and MacBook Air from the late 2013. In both cases, outcome is that iDSD starts to stream nicely and then just dies after completely random time interval. Only way to recover iDSD is to unplug and plug again. For the PC, only "solution" is that I disable USB3 support in bios (so that USB3 ports are running in USB2 mode) and in that case iDSD seems stable. For the MacBook Air (as originally planned as iDSD portable HiFi set-up) I just don't how is there any remedy available.
> 
> ...


 
 I thought that I may chip in here possibility with some ideas. Have you tried using the ASRock Z87 Extreme USB 2.0 only ports on the motherboard? The two USB 2.0 only ports are just above the PS/2 port.
  
 As far as Intel Chipset for the USB3 goes they did have problems with a early version that was being used on the same motherboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) you are currently using. You can check on your chipset version as shown on this web page C1 or C2
  
 http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4444/3/33-haswell-motherboard-group-test-26x-z87-4x-h87-and-3x-b85-the-usb-issue-definitely-there


----------



## iFi audio

incognito73 said:


> Question for iFi people.
> 
> Is there any indication when the new firmware release will be readily available, or at least on beta level? Trouble is ... I have iDSD on 7 days trial and it's absolutely unusable when paired with motherboards/systems with the latest USB3 chipsets (Intel xHCI namely).  I have new Z87 chipset motheboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) and MacBook Air from the late 2013. In both cases, outcome is that iDSD starts to stream nicely and then just dies after completely random time interval. Only way to recover iDSD is to unplug and plug again. For the PC, only "solution" is that I disable USB3 support in bios (so that USB3 ports are running in USB2 mode) and in that case iDSD seems stable. For the MacBook Air (as originally planned as iDSD portable HiFi set-up) I just don't how is there any remedy available.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You are correct. the Intel xHCI does not work with USB AC 2.0.  This is the root cause and has affected those new products with this USB 3.0 chipset. We are working on the code and have been doing this round the clock. If you PM us with the retailer details we are more than happy for them to extend the period.
  
 We will have the solution but this has not only effected DACs out there but also peripherals such as HDDs and thumb drives.
  
 iFi is in the same boat as the others.
  
 As an interim work around, you can go into the BIOS and reset the port back to USB2.0.
  
 thanks


----------



## Incognito73

Quote:


john57 said:


> I thought that I may chip in here possibility with some ideas. Have you tried using the ASRock Z87 Extreme USB 2.0 only ports on the motherboard? The two USB 2.0 only ports are just above the PS/2 port.
> 
> As far as Intel Chipset for the USB3 goes they did have problems with a early version that was being used on the same motherboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme) you are currently using. You can check on your chipset version as shown on this web page C1 or C2
> 
> http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4444/3/33-haswell-motherboard-group-test-26x-z87-4x-h87-and-3x-b85-the-usb-issue-definitely-there


 
  
 Hey, thanks for this! Much appreciated.
  
 Yes, I did try iDSD in two (only avaliable)  USB 2.0 ports and no dice again (exactly the same problem)  and that was the moment when it did cross my mind that I got the lemon  ... unitl I tried to disable USB3 support in Z87 Extreme bios. I vaguely remember that motherboard did have some sticker "new revision" or something, have to check when I get back home. Anyhow, that bug was related to the way how devices are initialised when resumed back from suspended state and iDSD manifestation is completely different.
  
 Ipad2 (iOS) and HTC One (Android KitKat) were fine ... although couldn't use iDSD outside of the USB Audio Player realm. I would really appreciate any input if it's possible to use iDSD natively on Android platform (so that I can use different players, streaming, online music etc).
  
 MacBook Air is not compatible, as it seems.


----------



## iFi audio

incognito73 said:


> Quote:
> 
> MacBook Air is not compatible, as it seems.


 
  
  
 See below. Tested by a customer who went to an Apple store and spent the whole afternoon there!
  

MacBook Pro w/ RetinaMavericks 10.9.2USB3.0 port issue   iMacMavericks 10.9.2USB3.0 port issue   MacBook AirMavericks 10.9.2USB3.0 port issue   MacBook Pro w/o RetinaMavericks 10.9.2Works   Mac MiniMavericks 10.9.2Works   Mac ProMavericks 10.9.2Works


----------



## Incognito73

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are correct. the Intel xHCI does not work with USB AC 2.0.  This is the root cause and has affected those new products with this USB 3.0 chipset. We are working on the code and have been doing this round the clock. If you PM us with the retailer details we are more than happy for them to extend the period.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the swift post. Much appreciated!
  
 Yes, that's how I'm testing the iDSD atm ... by disabling USB3 support in BIOS. However, MacBook Air (late 2013 Hanswell release) was intended to be primary platform for iDSD, so I believe that there is no workaround at this stage. By the way, is this related to XMOS specifically or just your implementation?  (as other DACs tested, namely Audioengine D3 and HRT Microstreamer were perfectly stable).


----------



## john57

incognito73 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hey, thanks for this! Much appreciated.
> 
> ...


 
 I am just showing that Intel is still frigging and coming out with newer revisions of the chipset used on USB3.   I was surprised that even your USB2 has the problem with the chipset driving that port.
  
 I am impressed by IFI support here showing that they are aware of kinks in USB3 implementations on various hardware devices. What was surprising was that even Apple does not have the same constancy in USB behavior in various and similar models.


----------



## Incognito73

john57 said:


> I am just showing that Intel is still frigging and coming out with newer revisions of the chipset used on USB3.   I was surprised that even your USB2 has the problem with the chipset driving that port. I am impressed by IFI support here showing that they are aware of kinks in USB3 implementations on various hardware devices. What was surprising was that even Apple does not have the same constancy in USB behavior in various and similar models.


 

 Oh yes, surely, It's tiring and frustrating. That's the main reason why, not so long ago, I was toying with the idea to get my hands on separate Audiophile USB controller for my PC:
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/sotm-tx-usbexp-audiophile-pcie-usb-audio-card-and-mbps-d2s-intelligent-battery-power-supply
  
 ... but changed my mind at the end, mostly because of the price and lack of feedback for such extravagant product.
  
 Yes, it was surprising that USB2 was affected too, unless USB3 support is disabled in BIOS.
  
 iFi forum support is very good ... although they are not particularly fast when you send them e-mail directly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Speaking of Apple, I have slight suspicion that Hanswell platform in particular is the culprit, but that's downside of the portables ... you simply can't just change the motherboard or use add-on card. Because iDSD is mainly designed  as portable solution (although it doesn't have to be as DAC section is very good ) ... I was expecting broader compatibility with mobile platforms, especially as in the last year or so there are many Hanswell platforms floating around and many portables with USB3 ports only.


----------



## kugino

FWIW, these USB issues are certainly frustrating and I hope ifi figures it out...but I applaud ifi for trying to listen, offering suggestions, and working with us. Nice to see this kind of CS.


----------



## koolas

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> If UAPP works, you are good to go.
> 
> UAPP works often even if the Device itself does not support USB Audio Class. So, to plug in iDSD and to get audio you need:
> ...




On Moto G the UAPP works perfectly with Pan Am, and completely doesn't with iDSD, so above statement is not true.


----------



## john57

earwaxxer said:


> Hey John - you can get the SoX plugin here:
> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=67373
> If you are familiar with foobar, you just drop the dll in the components folder and then select it in foobar. SoX is a good free SRC. If you want to familiarize with SRC specs etc this is a good site.
> http://src.infinitewave.ca/
> ...


 
 I will check it out.
 In the mean time MusicDirect received my unopened iDAC and shipped out the iDSD as per original order. No fooling around.
 It is also my mother birthday today the 1st of April!
 I found a setting on Jriver for jittler removal on the CD plugin that I am going to investigate.


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> On Moto G the UAPP works perfectly with Pan Am, and completely doesn't with iDSD, so above statement is not true.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Sorry, we have tested iDSD nano with many 'droid Phones, but not his one. There are just too many models out there.
  
 1.The Pan Am is USB Audio Class 1.0, The iDSD is USB Audio Class 2.0. 
  
 2. Also, often App's in Android do not close. So the app (UAPP) must be force closed if it was started with the Pan Am attached, or other DAC"s will not be recognised. Other DAC's meaning "including iDSD nano". We useES Task manager to kill tasks.
  
 You can try a clean boot of the Moto with the iDSD turned on, on battery and attached to the Moto X. See if UAPP wants to see it after that.


----------



## koolas

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry, we have tested iDSD nano with many 'droid Phones, but not his one. There are just too many models out there.
> 
> ...




It doesn't, and if I turn iDSD on first, and then connect it to Moto G, the phone crashes and turns off it-self. 

The device is not perfect, it has issues, but I'm not blaming you guys, since it's really high-quality product for really almost no money. As the saying goes "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". Honestly, IMHO iDSD with DSD records sounds almost better than vinyl, to which I am just listening in this particular moment.


----------



## john57

koolas said:


> The device is not perfect, it has issues, but I'm not blaming you guys, since it's really high-quality product for really almost no money. As the saying goes "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". Honestly, IMHO iDSD with DSD records sounds almost better than vinyl, to which I am just listening in this particular moment.


 
 So you saying that the iDSD is the end game for vinyl? If so that is fine with me.


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> It doesn't, and if I turn iDSD on first, and then connect it to Moto G, the phone crashes and turns off it-self.
> 
> The device is not perfect, it has issues, but I'm not blaming you guys, since it's really high-quality product for really almost no money. As the saying goes "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". Honestly, IMHO iDSD with DSD records sounds almost better than vinyl, to which I am just listening in this particular moment.


 
 Hi,
  
 Thanks for letting us know about the Motto G.
  
 We are sorry about this problem, but all we can do is to make sure our hardware conforms to standards (USB AC 2.0). As long as PC's/smart devices conform too it works.
  
 Android is all over the map. Our best suggestion is to stick with Samsung as their models that work, work flawlessly.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Ended up returning my iDSD to Music Direct, too much hiss even at lowest volume when still turned off on my low impedance and sensitive Shure 846 IEMs. Otherwise I was quite impressed. Just couldn't live with that hiss, which was not there on other higher impedance and less sensitive headphones like the Mad Dogs. 
  
 That said, maybe someone on the fence will want to grab that iDSD from Music Direct. Nice demo unit pricing...


----------



## iFi audio

roscoeiii said:


> Ended up returning my iDSD to Music Direct, too much hiss even at lowest volume when still turned off on my low impedance and sensitive Shure 846 IEMs. Otherwise I was quite impressed. Just couldn't live with that hiss, which was not there on other higher impedance and less sensitive headphones like the Mad Dogs.
> 
> That said, maybe someone on the fence will want to grab that iDSD from Music Direct. Nice demo unit pricing...


 
 Hi,
  
 The Shures are rated at 114dB.
  
 http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/se-earphones/se846-sound-isolating-earphones

Sensitivity114 dB SPL/mW
  
 This is generally more designed for iPhones and the like direct.
  
 If you contacted us, we would have put you in touch with Avatar Acoustics as they have some new iFi attenuators that customers are testing out. That would have fixed the "hiss."
  
 But it is good to know that the IEMs are a very popular option and we need to consider this for all our products - whilst still trying to consider headphones. It is a pretty broad base!


----------



## Roscoeiii

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The Shures are rated at 114dB.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I agree that headphones is a quite broad base. Thanks for the info on the attenuators. Maybe I need to try out the iDSD with my 846 and those attenuators. I had thought that the attenuators would only affect having more range on the volume control (maybe I didn't pay enough attention to your discussion of them here). 
  
 And so there is no confusion: I do consider the iDSD an excellent product. Potentially a game changer in fact. But gear matching is key (see "pretty broad base" above). I will look into how well the attuators impact things down the road. Maybe if there will be an iDSD at AXPONA could there also be attenuators to try out with it? I will certainly be there with my 846s!


----------



## kugino

my favorite aspects of the iDSD? DSD support and usb->SPDIF conversion. makes it quite a handy little bugger. i sold the last unit i had, but just bought another one since it's so useful.


----------



## john57

It is a bit unusual for the smallest DSD DAC to have a  usb->SPDIF output on it. You been selling them and wanted another?
  
 P.S. My Nano DSD should come in soon.


----------



## kugino

john57 said:


> It is a bit unusual for the smallest DSD DAC to have a  usb->SPDIF output on it. You been selling them and wanted another?
> 
> P.S. My Nano DSD should come in soon.


Yeah, I had one and didn't really need it b/c I had other sources. But I just sold my last two DACs and didn't want to wait for my geek pulse in July so thought is pick another one up.


----------



## john57

Have a question on the S/PDIF output while I understand it is PCM only my question is what happens when the iDSD receives a DSD siganl will it convert it to PCM on the S/PDIF output?


----------



## kugino

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> No output.
> 
> ...


Here's ifi's answer


----------



## john57

Thanks I tried the search function and I miss it twice.


----------



## koolas

john57 said:


> So you saying that the iDSD is the end game for vinyl? If so that is fine with me.




Nope... I still prefer vinyl. But more because of this feeling that you can almost touch it. On laptop you just use mouse and click something the on screen, but with vinyl you physically grab tonearm with your hand and put it in place where from you want to listen 

Sound quality-wise DSD on iDSD is something out of this world, but still it sounds too perfect, while sound from vinyl has this weird unperfectness that I do like.


----------



## john57

Trying to wrap my head around the idea of DSD being too perfect. Vinyl has its one noises like clicks and pops and wow and flutter that does not happen in a live concert. Each time I play the record the sound will slowly deteriorate each time. By the third time it is obvious reduction of quality regardless of the amount of tender living care I put on with the record. I had all kinds of good record cleaning products and good cartridges. My favorite was the Blue Point.  I had specialized tools for turntable alinements.  I went through 6 turntables, no more. I enjoy perfection but recording engineer choices and the performances are still the biggest limiting factor not the equipment. I received my iDSD today. Got it all setup and watching videos with it for a day  with a bit of break in and battery charged before circuital listening.


----------



## earwaxxer

I donned some old Sony cans the other day for the hell of it to compare redbook, 24/192, DSD, 2x DSD. This was the same redbook file played native or massaged with JRiver etc. On quick comparison, I was a bit surprised that the 'differences' were quite difficult to hear in some cases, although I have experienced that phenomena before when doing quick comparison. What I did notice was that 2x DSD sounded the best with DSD second and 24/192 third. Not huge though. The differences were in the subtleties, but the subtleties are what make music enjoyable. Its about realism. Ex. symbols sound like symbols etc. I can understand how many still think that CD's dont sound better upsampled etc., due to the subtle nature of the differences. They do though. The big question is - is it worth re-buying everything in a DSD remaster, assuming it was remastered from the original tape?


----------



## kugino

earwaxxer said:


> I donned some old Sony cans the other day for the hell of it to compare redbook, 24/192, DSD, 2x DSD. This was the same redbook file played native or massaged with JRiver etc. On quick comparison, I was a bit surprised that the 'differences' were quite difficult to hear in some cases, although I have experienced that phenomena before when doing quick comparison. What I did notice was that 2x DSD sounded the best with DSD second and 24/192 third. Not huge though. The differences were in the subtleties, but the subtleties are what make music enjoyable. Its about realism. Ex. symbols sound like symbols etc. I can understand how many still think that CD's dont sound better upsampled etc., due to the subtle nature of the differences. They do though. The big question is - is it worth re-buying everything in a DSD remaster, assuming it was remastered from the original tape?


Count me in the camp that believes most cannot hear differences between WELL MASTERED files at different bitrates. I believe the main reason DSD and 24/192 files sound better than redbook counterparts is that more care was given to them in the mastering process. There are a lot of really good redbook titles that I most likely cannot distinguish against their higher bitrate brethren...but the reason I like the option of DSD and 24/192 FLAC is that the source material tends to be better. If the same care was given to redbook files, I think I wouldn't care about DSD, etc. of course, as they say, YMMV...carry on.


----------



## koolas

Just out of curiosity, can you guys use Audacity and generate a tone like 7.5kHz using 44/16 and then do the same using 192/24? I'm pretty sure all of you will hear difference very very well. Don't tell me that it is just one tone, and music contains plenty of tones mixed together, because this way you simply neglect the facts. Simply, if you can hear the difference for that tone, you will hear the difference in the music as well. From vinyl you can play any tone you like without any limitation, because there is no bits and no sample rate - signal is perfect. The DSD tries to be digital vinyl, and when I heard it (on iDSD) first I obviously understood from first few seconds how much are we missing in PCM recordings. PCM recordings could still sound very good, or maybe better than DSD, but you would have to use DAC like DaVinci!


----------



## john57

I did a experiment just recently using a master DSD file with three instruments on it and convert to different PCM sample rates I can heard the differences quite clearly on the various PCM rates. Still checking out the iDSD i received.


----------



## john57

koolas said:


> Just out of curiosity, can you guys use Audacity and generate a tone like 7.5kHz using 44/16 and then do the same using 192/24? I'm pretty sure all of you will hear difference very very well. Don't tell me that it is just one tone, and music contains plenty of tones mixed together, because this way you simply neglect the facts. Simply, if you can hear the difference for that tone, you will hear the difference in the music as well. From vinyl you can play any tone you like without any limitation, because there is no bits and no sample rate - signal is perfect. The DSD tries to be digital vinyl, and when I heard it (on iDSD) first I obviously understood from first few seconds how much are we missing in PCM recordings. PCM recordings could still sound very good, or maybe better than DSD, but you would have to use DAC like DaVinci!


 
 Ever played with the filter switch specifically with DSD?


----------



## earwaxxer

john57 said:


> Ever played with the filter switch specifically with DSD?


 
 I have found the filter switch does make a difference, even with the DSD - The down position seems a bit more 'expansive' in sound, possibly a bit more emphasis on mids. I think I like it the best with my system. With the PCM the up position is, I believe the min phase filter. I think I remember liking it the best.


----------



## john57

earwaxxer said:


> I have found the filter switch does make a difference, even with the DSD - The down position seems a bit more 'expansive' in sound, possibly a bit more emphasis on mids. I think I like it the best with my system. With the PCM the up position is, I believe the min phase filter. I think I remember liking it the best.


 
 Before I ask you this question I already made a opinion on this and what you are hearing is also what I am hearing. WE are in agreement on this. What surprised me was how well the iDSD did with Red Book files. With the min phase filter is how natural PCM playback is. Even with watching Netflix videos is how natural and clear the dialog is. I have tried DAC's  up to the $2k range do not do as good in this area.  WIth DSD using the expansive mode I noticed a much more open "space" in the sound. There is a bit more sound in the upper mids but that is fine with me because when i go to a live classical concert there is a aliveness or a special kind of brightness in the dynamic range that is missing on many of the PCM files or CD's I have.


----------



## iFi audio

john57 said:


> Before I ask you this question I already made a opinion on this and what you are hearing is also what I am hearing. WE are in agreement on this. What surprised me was how well the iDSD did with Red Book files. With the min phase filter is how natural PCM playback is. Even with watching Netflix videos is how natural and clear the dialog is. I have tried DAC's  up to the $2k range do not do as good in this area.  WIth DSD using the expansive mode I noticed a much more open "space" in the sound. There is a bit more sound in the upper mids but that is fine with me because when i go to a live classical concert there is a aliveness or a special kind of brightness in the dynamic range that is missing on many of the PCM files or CD's I have.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 For all of you guys on this thread, there is an online interview to be published sometime this week where our Thorsten Loesch lifts the lid on what AMR/iFi R&D think of the whole PCM/DSD recording/playback debate. Covering the history of digital recording and playback including the two main camps of chipsets. Also, how and why we chose the Burr-Brown chip. And a bit of an expose on why we shun digital volume controls.
  
 Most ignore the 1st half, the recording aspect. The DAC is only the 2nd half of the equation yet many are fixated on this aspect.
  
 It is the whole end-to-end recording>playback chain needs to be considered and kept _True Native _so as not to lose data.
  
 Sure will be a very interesting and eye-opening read!


----------



## mfmahler

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> For all of you guys on this thread, there is an online interview to be published sometime this week where our Thorsten Loesch lifts the lid on what AMR/iFi R&D think of the whole PCM/DSD recording/playback debate. Covering the history of digital recording and playback including the two main camps of chipsets. Also, how and why we chose the Burr-Brown chip. And a bit of an expose on why we shun digital volume controls.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe you refer to this online interview:
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-thorsten-loesch-amrifi


----------



## koolas

So iDSD uses different DAC chip for 44/16 than it uses for other rez? The article mentioned tubes, but I don't suppose iDSD contains any, does it?

Interestingly, but this is only my personal opinion, 44/16 sounds (to me) better when up-sampled to 176. I guess I might prefer the sound of hi-rez chip from 44/16 chip. Is that this famous 16bit Philips DAC?


----------



## technobear

koolas said:


> So iDSD uses different DAC chip for 44/16 than it uses for other rez? The article mentioned tubes, but I don't suppose iDSD contains any, does it?




He was talking about AMR kit, not ifi :rolleyes:


----------



## thisisvv

Hi,
  
 just a question can spdif output from Idsd can be fed to PCM only dac....if that is the case what will happen if i am playing a dsd song...
  
 will the dsd song will be converted to PCM and fed to a dac or the song wont be played....
  
  
 V


----------



## thisisvv

kugino said:


> Here's ifi's answer


 
 I guess i got my answer....
  
 V


----------



## thisisvv

Anyone have any review of how the Idsd Dac is ....i want idsd to my Raptor amp....i also have a chord dac....but chord cant do DSD so asking if anyone have review of Idsd as a dac....


----------



## iFi audio

*T-minus 1 day: Crowd-Design (NOT Crowd-Funding) of the micro iDSD*

Guys and gals. ONE more day left for all entries to be submitted. There are a few who have contributed a heck of a lot but at the other end, there are some neck and neck entries.

 It is really difficult to to pick those at the moment as it is a real close-call.

 If you are one of those, keep chiming in as it is likely to make a difference.

 See you on the other side!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/t-minus-1-day-idsd-micro-crowd-design-this-dac-hp-amp-is-beyond-awesome-some-last-minute-entries


----------



## iFi audio

*Which USB Asynch does iFi use? AMR's of course!*
  
 We have been asked more than once or twice "Like most Audiophiles, I like to know where the Asynch code is coming from. It's silly not to touch on that in the documentation...".
  
 We thought it was quite clear.....it is our own code of course!
  
 Using someone else's off the shelf solution is great if you want a turnkey solution that you pay a small licence fee per unit shipped and can live with certain limitations such as only being able to use one vendor's DAC chips. Along with the XMOS and ESS reference designs, you just plug them together and you have an all singing and dancing USB DAC.
  

  
 During the development of the DP-777 we evaluated many USB Solutions (including ones then still in Beta).  We found that no "off the shelf" solution that quite suited our needs and requirements.
  
 It should be noted that the fundamentals for Asynchonous USB Audio are part of the USB Specification (under USB Audio Class), so in principle anyone with enough time and a fast enough CPU/MCU/PIC/FPGA can write their own Asynchronous USB Firmware for such a device, according to USB Audio Class documentation. The first commercially available solution for this was Gordon Rankin's "Streamlength" which has become very popular indeed. However since then, many solutions have become available, including the open source USB Widget.
  
 We do have our own software team (in addition to the electronic and industrial/mechanical design teams) so we decided to build our own on the XMOS foundation. As a result we were able to greatly customise the XMOS Firmware in the iDSD nano. The fact that the AMR DP-777 and iFi iDAC worked with iPhone/iPAD + Camera Kit when no-one elses USB products did is also owing to us writing our own software (and being Apple "Made For iPhone" Licencee). 
  
 Writing our own code allowed us to use the DAC Chip we wanted to use, with DSD and DSD128 and with 352.8/384KHz PCM which is not possible using any of the off the shelf solutions in circulation (they all tend to work only with ESS DAC Chips) but need an extra external DSP Chip or FPGA. Doing this seems a waste if you already have paid for a RISC CPU that manages 500 Million Instructions Per Second [MIPS] (for reference, this is the same as a late 1990's PowerPC Chip or Pentium Pro at 200MHz), plus if you can program that FPGA or DSP Chip - you might as well program the XMOS CPU.
  
 So that is what we do. Who's Async Code do we use? AMR's of course, nothing else does what we need.


----------



## iFi audio

Hi All,
  
*micro iDSD Crowd-Design (latest update: 16th April)*
 See this poll:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-phase-2-desktop-vs-portable-listening-poll-open-to-everyone-5-ipurifiers-up-for-grabs
  
  
  
*What % of your listening is Desktop vs Portable? (click on ONE answer)*
  
 This poll will close next Tuesday 22nd April.
  
 Please click on ONE answer. (you do have to be a HF member).
  
 We will put all the names into a hat and 5 names out of the hat will receive an iPurifier (from their local dealer). The iPurifier placed at the USB port of the DAC, audibly improves sonics by filtering out grunge on the audio+power lines.
  
 More details here:
http://ifi-audio.com/en/iPurifier.html
  
 Thank you for voting AND for noting your moniker in a post.
  
 It seems the poll only shows the number of voters and not the actual voters.
  
 Keep it up and we welcome your family and friends!
  
 Chance of a free iPurifier? - heck yes!


----------



## nbourbaki

Any updates on getting the USB working with the Macbook Pro Retina?  The device seems to have all of the attributes I want, but only if it can work with my gear.
  
 Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

nbourbaki said:


> Any updates on getting the USB working with the Macbook Pro Retina?  The device seems to have all of the attributes I want, but only if it can work with my gear.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Hi,
  
 Drop tech@ifi-audio.com an email.
  
 thanks


----------



## nbourbaki

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Drop tech@ifi-audio.com an email.
> 
> thanks


 
  
 Email sent.  When I get a response, I'll let everyone know the status.


----------



## earwaxxer

Question for the iFi guys and anyone else with opinions for that matter - It SEEMS to me that ASIO is better sounding than using WASAPI via JRiver. The iDSD seems to handle ASIO quite well by the way via windows 7. I appears from what JRiver recommends is that ASIO is preferred, but they dont make a big deal about it - thanks - Eric


----------



## KmanChu

earwaxxer said:


> Question for the iFi guys and anyone else with opinions for that matter - It SEEMS to me that ASIO is better sounding than using WASAPI via JRiver. The iDSD seems to handle ASIO quite well by the way via windows 7. I appears from what JRiver recommends is that ASIO is preferred, but they dont make a big deal about it - thanks - Eric


 
  
 I have used JRiver with the ifi iDAC, the NAD M51 USB interface, Audiophilleo 2 converter, and Yellowtec Puc2 converter. In all cases I found the ASIO driver to sound significantly better than WASAPI. I was told WASAPI should be better but I never found that to be true. I didn't know JRiver recommended ASIO over WASAPI until just now, but I agree with them.


----------



## earwaxxer

kmanchu said:


> I have used JRiver with the ifi iDAC, the NAD M51 USB interface, Audiophilleo 2 converter, and Yellowtec Puc2 converter. In all cases I found the ASIO driver to sound significantly better than WASAPI. I was told WASAPI should be better but I never found that to be true. I didn't know JRiver recommended ASIO over WASAPI until just now, but I agree with them.


 

 Very cool... I would agree. I have been listening through ASIO for a couple of days now, and I like it. I guess there are differing opinions out there... Such is our hobby.


----------



## john57

earwaxxer said:


> Question for the iFi guys and anyone else with opinions for that matter - It SEEMS to me that ASIO is better sounding than using WASAPI via JRiver. The iDSD seems to handle ASIO quite well by the way via windows 7. I appears from what JRiver recommends is that ASIO is preferred, but they dont make a big deal about it - thanks - Eric


 
 When I creating music or mixing ASIO is the only way to go. ASIO has much lower latency than WASPI specially important when using MIDI or USB keyboards. ASIO is much better when using JRiver with video.


----------



## earwaxxer

Got the iPurifier about a week ago and burned it in for awhile with the iDSD. First opinions - does what its advertised to do, well worth the $99. If a $300 USB cable sounded that good I would also have been pleased. Another thing I noticed is that the volume control works better. Much better. No digital strangness/instability when the volume is turned down VERY low. There is still a rather abrupt decrease in volume but I can live with that as long as I can play low when I want to. Again, thought, I will say that the volume control is worth the issues in that it does have excellent sound quality. Maybe iFi will perfect that on the next go around..


----------



## jexby

earwaxxer said:


> Another thing I noticed is that the volume control works better. Much better. No digital strangness/instability when the volume is turned down VERY low. There is still a rather abrupt decrease in volume but I can live with that as long as I can play low when I want to. Again, thought, I will say that the volume control is worth the issues in that it does have excellent sound quality. Maybe iFi will perfect that on the next go around..


 
  
  
 Having the iDSD nano, and with IEMs hearing:
  1. an obvious volume "jump" in the volume at 9oclock
 and
  2.  digital clicking as volume goes up to 9,10,11,12 etc
  
 are you saying that 1) is still there but more even?
 and 2) is completely gone?
  
 I too am somewhat mystified why iFi doesn't build "the best USB connection" they've developed internally to their product, and instead appear to encourage these ugly USB dangles hanging all over the place.


----------



## earwaxxer

jexby said:


> Having the iDSD nano, and with IEMs hearing:
> 1. an obvious volume "jump" in the volume at 9oclock
> and
> 2.  digital clicking as volume goes up to 9,10,11,12 etc
> ...


 

 I havent quite had the same issues as you.
  
 With me when the volume was low, approaching off, it would sound like the digital equivalent of a poor connection, like the 'lock' was not real tight. I guess you could call that a clicking of sorts. I dont have a jump in volume at the upper end or have any issues at the upper end. What I was doing until I got the iPurifier was to use the digital (internal) volume control in JRiver.
  
 Since installing the iPurifier I have realized that the JRiver 64bit control downgrades the sound (I didnt hear it so much before). - There is still a jump in volume going from low to higher volume, but at least the low volume sound is listenable. - bottom line - still funky but better. If I didnt love what I am hearing I would be annoyed.
  
 As far as the USB connection you have a good point  - I use an adapter to avoid using a cable and all the issues with that.


----------



## john57

I do not have much issue with the volume control on my Nano iDSD since I use it mostly as a limiter for loud music using the RCA outputs. One of my sounds cards, the Juli@ by ESI does have a large jump in volume at a certain point of the gain control. I am only using the last 1/4 of the gain conrol on the Nano iDSD typically. I do find that the stepped attenuator method that  IFI uses is more smoother than other digital or mechanical attenuators that I have heard in the past.


----------



## john57

kugino said:


> I'm actually interested in how idsd and the Loki compare with DSD files.


 
 I have both and they are different in features and presentation Keep in mind that the Loki can only play DSD64 only while the iDSD can play both 64DSD and 128DSD. I find that the iDSD give a fuller sound while the Loki gives a more leaner sounding presentation. The soundstage or the space of the concert hall that the recording takes place is more vivid with the iDSD and extends to a bit lower frequency range than the Loki. A fuller sounding iDSD means more body to the midrange. I  find that the switcher button on the Loki tends to get in the way with different levels when I wanted to hear the output of my other PCM DAC connected to the Loki. I would prefer that the RCA jacks on the Nano iDSD to be on the back. I understand that the micro iDSD will have the RCA's in the back.


----------



## iFi audio

*Latest Update: 29th April*
  
 We have developed some exclusive attenuators for iFi customers who use very high-sensitivity IEMs with the nano iCAN, nano iDSD and
 micro iCAN. There are two versions: -12dB and -24dB.
  


 We are running a competition for the next 10 days (close: Saturday 10th May GMT: 21.00) here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/695086/ifi-nano-ican-name-that-feature-competition-nano-ican-or-1-head-fi-rated-micro-ican-up-for-grabs
  
 Should you accept this mission, your objective is simple.
  
 i. Think of a name/names instead of "attenuator"
  
 ii. Post your suggestion/s in this thread
  
 iii. The top 3 most-liked names - chosen by the iFi senior team of Thorsten et al will win:
 #1 micro iCAN (rrp Euro259) (Ranked Number 1 headphone amp on Head-Fi!)
 #2 nano iCAN (rrp Euro169)
 #3 nano iCAN (rrp Euro169)
  
 Best of luck to all of you!
  
 Any questions, just ask away.


----------



## earwaxxer

Call me crazy, but I have a problem putting another resistor in the signal path. It seems that the proper approach would be to actually fix the volume control. As a DIY'er I go to great lengths to remove or upgrade passive components in the signal path. So, what brand of resistor is this? I like the sound of tantalums.


----------



## thisisvv

Has anyone compare this with Geek out....


----------



## jexby

If my GO450 ever ships out, it will end up next to iDSD nano for a couple of days of back-n-forth listening.
 (of course the Geek Out won't work (natively) with iPhone/iPad and CCK cable)
  
 first listening with IEMs and NAD HP50.  if I locate a decent 3.5mm adapter, maybe HD600 as well.
  
 not holding my breath tho....


----------



## Feynman

Seriously!? Is this as good as the Gungnir as earwaxxer states? I was thiking of buying the Gungnir but if this is as good thats money wasted...


----------



## earwaxxer

feynman said:


> Seriously!? Is this as good as the Gungnir as earwaxxer states? I was thiking of buying the Gungnir but if this is as good thats money wasted...


 

 Ok, so I can tell you more specifically how the two sound different and then you can choose. The iDSD DAC has a tighter sound for one. Now this is with my Emotiva amp, which is an amp that leans on the 'analog' side, sort of the tube side of sound if you will. Also with the Maggies being very quick and precise plannar speaker, you can hear the difference quite quickly. So the Gungnir, in my system sounds 'low res.' compared to the iDSD.
  
 I have noticed this difference not only between the iDSD vs. Gungnir but also the Gungnir vs. the FiiO Tasham (a $27 DAC you can get from Parts Express). The FiiO is a bit anemic, but a very 'realistic' sounding DAC in my system, especially with a good USB/SPDIF converter up front. 
  
 These differences dont come out and hit you in the face mind you. I think with the maggies, with their huge surface area, they tend to sound better with kit that is more focused vs. a 'big' sound. Another way of describing the difference would be the difference in sound between a generic interconnect or speaker wire and high end brand. Better focus, better separation of instruments, more real and live sounding - cheers -


----------



## koolas

I'm quite afraid that what you are calling "more realistic" and "low "res" is more and less aggressive respectively. I think it's quite common for people to think that they hear more detail when it's in fact more aggressive. From my experience I know iDSD sounds very well, but I can't really believe you that Gungir would not do better. I can confirm that for example iDSD sounds way better than dac in Pan Am, but dac in Pan Am is more harsh, grainy or simply aggressive as one calls that. The iDSD is not that smooth either, but it is a great improvement over dac in Pan Am. I have this old big T744 at home, and no dac I ever heard does better job than this device. When I listen to vinyl records my PP2 is connected to analogue input of T744, which converts it to digital 96/24, just to convert it back to analogue before signal enters power amp section. The volume control bass and treble on T744 this all are done 100% in digital domain. So analogue sound from vinyl records is being converted by T744 internally to digital, and it still sounds amazing. But for comparison when I play CD from my Blue-ray connected to T744 via optical, the sound is very good, but it does not impress me the way sound of vinyl does even though it's converted to digital. I have downloaded from HDtracks some piano works, and apparently I do have the original vinyl record as well. When I play digital 176/24 version through iDSD it does sound very good, but same song played from vinyl does sound better. And even though there are pops and clicks, the resolution and realism are not comparable to anything. Playing vinyl is a lot of hassle, you need to prepare a bit to play your record, and then you need to stand up from your couch to change the side. Also to find record you are interested to listen to is a lot of work, there is no search, you need to do the job manually your-self. In digital world it is much easier, you just launch Spotify and start radio, and that is basically it. Unfortunately digital sound does not give me the same level of enjoyment, and I'm forced to hurt my-self with all that vinyl rituals. But it is worth it, since the enjoyment I get from it is incomparable to anything. I'm still waiting for DAC that will make me stop using this big piece of rotating junk  I'm quite convinced high grade CD player, like this famous Oppo, could be the solution. With iDSD I am very impressed how good it is for that little price, and to get better dac I believe you would need to either pay arm and leg, or search whole universe to find it.


----------



## earwaxxer

koolas said:


> I'm quite afraid that what you are calling "more realistic" and "low "res" is more and less aggressive respectively. I think it's quite common for people to think that they hear more detail when it's in fact more aggressive





> I'm quite convinced high grade CD player, like this famous Oppo, could be the solution. With iDSD I am very impressed how good it is for that little price, and to get better dac I believe you would need to either pay arm and leg, or search whole universe to find it.


 
 Interesting points... I feel I have mostly tamed the 'aggressive' side of digital by doing some oversampling before the fact with Foobar. CD's at native res. have always sounded harsh and aggressive to me, even the best recorded ones. IMO that aggessive nature of redbook digital is due to the filters. When it upsampled, you can play with better filters etc. Its also my opinion that doing that in software NOT IN REAL TIME, but by changing permanently changing the files,  yields much better results.
  
 Its my opinion that the house sound of the Schiit kit does not fit my system. Now, what sound is 'better' may be system dependent. For me, I need the focus and the separation of instruments etc. The Gungnir does not do that for me.


----------



## earwaxxer

One other point I can make to this discussion. IMO, it makes sense to buy the less expensive DAC's first to get a feel for what sounds good and what doesnt sound good. Sometimes you get a clue from that. For example - I like the sound of that little FiiO. They use Cirrus Logic. Never thought I would like Cirrus Logic - put that in the back of my mind for future reference.


----------



## KmanChu

earwaxxer said:


> Interesting points... I feel I have mostly tamed the 'aggressive' side of digital by doing some oversampling before the fact with Foobar. CD's at native res. have always sounded harsh and aggressive to me, even the best recorded ones. IMO that aggessive nature of redbook digital is due to the filters. When it upsampled, you can play with better filters etc. Its also my opinion that doing that in software NOT IN REAL TIME, but by changing permanently changing the files,  yields much better results.
> 
> Its my opinion that the house sound of the Schiit kit does not fit my system. Now, what sound is 'better' may be system dependent. For me, I need the focus and the separation of instruments etc. The Gungnir does not do that for me.


 
 I applaud your attempt at being generous, but I happen to agree with you that the digital stuff  from Schiit really just isn't that fantastic. The DACs best feature is that they visually match their amps.


----------



## Incognito73

Any update about new firmware and USB3 compatibility issues? Well, it's almost 4 weeks now ... and no word from iFi.


----------



## john57

The last have heard from a developer on the Computer Audiophile forums has stated AMR has provided him with a possible fix and it is working for him, He also stated that there were other DAC's he tried from differnt makes that did not work for him. I do not know when the firmware driver is ready for general release and I did not want to jump the gun on our offical good  iFI support person here.


----------



## Incognito73

Would be interesting to know a bit more about that fix! Yes, it seems that latest motherboards revisions and laptops with Intel xHCI platform  are causing "DACs havoc" ... BUT I'm still baffled how come that more in-lab testing was not done as that USB3 platform was around for a year or so.


----------



## iFi audio

incognito73 said:


> Would be interesting to know a bit more about that fix! Yes, it seems that latest motherboards revisions and laptops with Intel xHCI platform  are causing "DACs havoc" ... BUT I'm still baffled how come that more in-lab testing was not done as that USB3 platform was around for a year or so.


 

 Hi,
  
 USB 3.0 has been out for sometime - correct.
  
 But, this particular generation of USB 3.0 chipset came out <2 months before the iDSD was launched.
  
 We tested the iDSD with the previous generation and other makes of USB chipsets but due to the dynamic nature of computers, there is no way to test with everything that is out and those that are coming in the piepline. This is why it has wreaked havoc with so many DACs out there.
  
 We hope this clarifies.


----------



## koolas

I can understand that issue could happen on PCs, where every single one is somehow different, but MACs apretty standard. Why don't you ensure that your product works correctly with all known versions of MACs?


----------



## Incognito73

Is it possible that iFi post the information about the beta firmware (or beta fix)? ... as I would really like to test the device. It's boxed for a month or so and luckily enough I have extended trial out authorised by the distributor. If HQPlayer developer got the code, I don't see a reason why loyal customer base is excluded from the process.


----------



## john57

koolas said:


> I can understand that issue could happen on PCs, where every single one is somehow different, but MACs apretty standard. Why don't you ensure that your product works correctly with all known versions of MACs?


 
 While Apple has fewer hardware versions they are far from being free with problems with audio on USB3 and even USB2 in some cases and sometimes a new OS update will break the functionality of a audio USB unit. 
  
 https://discussions.apple.com/message/24003292#24003292
  
 https://discussions.apple.com/message/25018420#25018420


----------



## earwaxxer

For those of us who have been in this 'computer audio' thing for some years, we realize that there are some issues that are still being resolved with each change in technology. It wasnt long ago when all USB protocols were USB 1.0 only. Very limited in bandwidth.
  
 To now get DSD over USB is pretty amazing really. Before I was 'converted' to USB audio I was a Ethernet enthusiast. Now, USB is CLEARLY better in sound quality. Its all good. keep the faith....


----------



## john57

Yes is surprising how well USB is working these days in sprite of issues  I no longer see any advantage in using S/PDIF over USB any more that I have been using for many years. I recently got a network audio player that uses Ethernet and it has its own set of issues for me to deal with and solve. I have deal with Ethernet issues all the time in my last job.  Any changes in USB hardware is supposedly backward compatible but we all well know does not always work smoothly. Getting DSD to work within the USB specifications was quite a feat. I enjoy playing with my iDSD and looking forward with the micro.


----------



## iFi audio

incognito73 said:


> Is it possible that iFi post the information about the beta firmware (or beta fix)? ... as I would really like to test the device. It's boxed for a month or so and luckily enough I have extended trial out authorised by the distributor. If HQPlayer developer got the code, I don't see a reason why loyal customer base is excluded from the process.


 

 Hi

  
 The majority of iDSD customers have USB 2.0 ports and/or have another version of USB 3.0 of course have not enquired about this update.

  
 Of course you may. You only have to ask to test the beta and we shall email it to you. We have to track and do this on a case-by-case basis.

  
 So if you email tech@ifi-audio.com one of our guys would be more than glad to send you the beta.

  
 At the moment, it is passing all the tests with PCs and Macs out there with this particular port.

  
 It does require Win PC and USB 2.0 port (of course). So Mac users do need access to a Win PC for this firmware update. Or BootCamp or Parallel.
  
 Also, dont worry about being past the 30-day period. All iFi retailers have and will support 100% their customers on this.


----------



## iFi audio

This table highlights the MACs that work and the MACs that dont work. Please appreciate this is a summary.
  

MacBook Pro w/ RetinaMavericks 10.9.2USB3.0 port issue  
  iMacMavericks 10.9.2USB3.0 port issue  
  MacBook AirMavericks 10.9.2USB3.0 port issue  
  MacBook Pro w/o RetinaMavericks 10.9.2Works  
  Mac MiniMavericks 10.9.2Works  
  Mac ProMavericks 10.9.2Works
  
 As you can see, they dont all use the same USB3.0 port chipset.


----------



## iFi audio

john57 said:


> While Apple has fewer hardware versions they are far from being free with problems with audio on USB3 and even USB2 in some cases and sometimes a new OS update will break the functionality of a audio USB unit.
> 
> 
> https://discussions.apple.com/message/24003292#24003292
> ...


 

 Correct.
  
 We all live for Windows and OS X updates among other things, App updates et al. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This is the dynamic nature of Computers (and Computer Audio).


----------



## Incognito73

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> The majority of iDSD customers have USB 2.0 ports and/or have another version of USB 3.0 of course have not enquired about this update.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for this. Much appreciated!
  
 Yes, I have latest Z87 chipset/motherboard with Intel xHCI USB3 only ports (USB2 ports are emulated and non-native). I can only use iDSD if I completely disable the USB3 support in Bios ... but then all ports are USB2 emulated and I can't use my USB3 native external hard/flash drives. With the MacBook Air (late 2013) where I was planned to use iDSD new firmware is only option as I can't fiddle with USB3 settings. Anyhow, will contact you shortly via e-mail. For sure, will let you know how it goes!


----------



## nbourbaki

ifi audio said:


> ...
> It does require Win PC and USB 2.0 port (of course). So Mac users do need access to a Win PC for this firmware update. Or BootCamp or Parallel.
> 
> Also, dont worry about being past the 30-day period. All iFi retailers have and will support 100% their customers on this.


 
  
 This is great news!  If you don't mind sharing, is the Win PC and USB 2.0 port used to flash the the firmware in the iDSD Nano?
  
 If anyone gets this working on a late 2013 Macbook Pro Retina, please share how this is working for you.


----------



## Pbvideo

I can verify that the firmware update worked on my MacBook Pro 2013.  I updated using Parallels and I'm good to go!
  
 PB
  
  


nbourbaki said:


> This is great news!  If you don't mind sharing, is the Win PC and USB 2.0 port used to flash the the firmware in the iDSD Nano?
> 
> If anyone gets this working on a late 2013 Macbook Pro Retina, please share how this is working for you.


----------



## nbourbaki

pbvideo said:


> I can verify that the firmware update worked on my MacBook Pro 2013.  I updated using Parallels and I'm good to go!
> 
> PB


 
  
 Thanks for the confirmation.  Order placed.


----------



## koolas

ifi audio said:


> This table highlights the MACs that work and the MACs that dont work. Please appreciate this is a summary.
> 
> ..
> 
> As you can see, they dont all use the same USB3.0 port chipset.




Can we expect firmware that will solve issues with these MACs?


----------



## john57

pbvideo said:


> I can verify that the firmware update worked on my MacBook Pro 2013.  I updated using Parallels and I'm good to go!
> 
> PB


 
 Wow that interesting. I would think that using Parallels is using Win drivers on the new chipset that Mac was using did not cause a problem. Just curious what was the underlining issue was.


----------



## Pbvideo

The issue for my nano was the nano firmware - updating the nano firmware with beta firmware the iFi folks sent to me solved all the USB issues on my MacBook Pro. 




john57 said:


> Wow that interesting. I would think that using Parallels is using Win drivers on the new chipset that Mac was using did not cause a problem. Just curious what was the underlining issue was.


----------



## john57

The point that I was making the issue was not with the hardware chipset itself but the new Mac driver for the new chipset that broke the backward compatibility for the USB3 port for many third party vendors. A different Mac driver update could maybe fix the issue but in this case it was the third party vendors like IFI to fix.  Glad it is working for you.


----------



## Pbvideo

Yeah, apple may work out some of the driver issues in a future update. Parallels had the same issue my mac had with the Nano, but connecting through a USB2 hub allowed me to successfully update the firmware. I had always been able to use the Nano on my MacBook Pro retina using a hub, but caring around a hub wasn't the best solution. 



john57 said:


> The point that I was making the issue was not with the hardware chipset itself but the new Mac driver for the new chipset that broke the backward compatibility for the USB3 port for many third party vendors. A different Mac driver update could maybe fix the issue but in this case it was the third party vendors like IFI to fix.  Glad it is working for you.


----------



## Turrican2

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> The majority of iDSD customers have USB 2.0 ports and/or have another version of USB 3.0 of course have not enquired about this update.
> ...


 
 Emailed Tech guys, got a quick response. installed the ifi driver on a usb 2 machine and it took seconds to flash the idsd.  Works like a charm on my usb 3 only HP laptop now.  Thanks!


----------



## runnin17

After reading some impressions of the iDSD, I think I have to buy the thing. Paired with my XPA-1 driven Spires I cannot wait to crank up some good DSD tracks  
  
 But the question, the nano or wait for the micro, hmmmm


----------



## earwaxxer

runnin17 said:


> After reading some impressions of the iDSD, I think I have to buy the thing. Paired with my XPA-1 driven Spires I cannot wait to crank up some good DSD tracks
> 
> But the question, the nano or wait for the micro, hmmmm


 

 Personally, I would get the nano and see if you like it. I had the same idea with the Schiit products and waited for the Gungnir. Start with the less expensive and if you like it, work your way up.


----------



## koolas

There was a comparison some time ago on polish website between Herus and iDSD. Here is translated snippet:



> Herus, this equipment is class itself, putting the smoothness of media saturation and wider than the resolution musicality and dynamics. Playing wide and deep, nicely glued space in front of the listener into a whole, is in this respect multidimensional . Sound of Herus is slightly dimmed, though adequately clear. It is fact that there is some other more detail-oriented equipment out there, but the school to which this midget from Resonessence Labs attended, is pretty darn consistent. Someone constructing this thing knew exactly to which subscribe it. Just listening to it draws you in so much like a swamp if you tried to walk through it, and it's surprising that such a little thing can play so astonishing.
> 
> And what is the story with iDSD? Maybe I'll start by saying that it is another very positive surprise, this product certainly stands out beyond mediocrity and the flatness of media and exaggerated detail that is so common these days. So, therefore, it should be understood that iDSD is musical equipment, giving you just the fun of listening, regardless of how vague that statement sounds. But compared to Herus it has more of detail in the transmission and is a bit more dynamic, I can also hear that the sound is more resolved, selective.





http://blog.pclab.pl/violator/Recenzja.iFi.Audio.iDSD-ma%C5%82e.graj%C4%85ce.co%C5%9B.4,384
Translated by http://translate.google.com with little edit from my side - I know it's not perfect.

I wonder how would iDSD compare to Concero HD :rolleyes: Tough it is huge difference of price


----------



## runnin17

Placed the order the nano yesterday. After reading all the reviews this thing should pair perfectly with my XPA-1's and Spires. The extra detail and quick response from the electrostats should shine


----------



## earwaxxer

runnin17 said:


> Placed the order the nano yesterday. After reading all the reviews this thing should pair perfectly with my XPA-1's and Spires. The extra detail and quick response from the electrostats should shine


 
 I think you'll be happy with it with the above kit. Its nice to just listen to music and not be thinking about the next tweak/upgrade.


----------



## nbourbaki

Received my iDSD Nano last night (thank you Music Direct for Fedexing it to me).  Flashed the firmware with the beta driver.  Set up JRMC to bitstream DSD and all I can say is it's fantastic.  The level of detail extraction is fantastic with DSD material and normal PCM is very, very good.  I'm running this on a late 2013 Macbook Pro Retina with the effected USB 3.0 ports and the new firmware just plain works.  I wish the instruction card or the website had more information, not that it's difficult to set up, I'd just like more information on what the colors mean on the LED.


----------



## earwaxxer

nbourbaki said:


> -  not that it's difficult to set up, I'd just like more information on what the colors mean on the LED.


 
 You should have got a little 'card' in the box. It folds out and has all the colors and what they mean.
  
 One other thing I found out - the internal battery needs some good amps to charge fully and in a reasonable length of time. I use my Sony 10AH CycleEnergy battery to charge it. I outputs up to 3.6 amps at 5V.


----------



## DomieMic65

I got the iDSD nano two days ago and it does not work on the USB 3.0 ports of my Dell Inspiron 3521 laptop!
 Fortunatelly the coputer has USB 2.0 ports also, so I can use the DAC.. Do I need to update the firmaware to the beta or I can wait untill it is released? 
 Does it give better sound???
  
 Thnx in advance!!!
  
 I guess that the firmware won't affect the synergy with Mac's.? I have a late 2009 mac mini (USB 2.0 only)... May be silly question but... : )


----------



## kugino

domiemic65 said:


> I got the iDSD nano two days ago and it does not work on the USB 3.0 ports of my Dell Inspiron 3521 laptop!
> Fortunatelly the coputer has USB 2.0 ports also, so I can use the DAC.. Do I need to update the firmaware to the beta or I can wait untill it is released?
> Does it give better sound???
> 
> ...


 
 i don't think usb 3.0 will give you better sound than usb 2.0. those who are using the beta firmware update probably only have usb 3.0 and their units don't work at all. if you don't have to update the firmware, i wouldn't.


----------



## DomieMic65

Question:
 Can the iDSD Nano play true (non DoP) DSD using the foobar2000 with foo_input_sacd-0.7.1 component????
 If yes is there a link with the proper settings?
  
 If no why ifi claims NATIVE DSD??


----------



## kugino

domiemic65 said:


> Question:
> Can the iDSD Nano play true (non DoP) DSD using the foobar2000 with foo_input_sacd-0.7.1 component????
> If yes is there a link with the proper settings?
> 
> If no why ifi claims NATIVE DSD??


Why would DoP not be considered native? There is NO conversion to PCM.


----------



## KmanChu

domiemic65 said:


> Question:
> Can the iDSD Nano play true (non DoP) DSD using the foobar2000 with foo_input_sacd-0.7.1 component????
> If yes is there a link with the proper settings?
> 
> If no why ifi claims NATIVE DSD??


 
  


kugino said:


> Why would DoP not be considered native? There is NO conversion to PCM.


 
  
 +1 There is no PCM conversion. DoP is just a scheme for getting DSD format data through the USB Audio 2.0 protocol.


----------



## iFi audio

domiemic65 said:


> Question:
> Can the iDSD Nano play true (non DoP) DSD using the foobar2000 with foo_input_sacd-0.7.1 component????
> If yes is there a link with the proper settings?
> 
> If no why ifi claims NATIVE DSD??


 
 Hi,
  
 Just to clarify, 
  
 First, "native DSD" refers to leaving the DSD datastream original (native) without applying digital processing inside the DAC Chip, not with regards to support for ASIO 2.2.
  
 Second, the upcoming firmware update will add ASIO 2.2 support.
  
 If you wish to read about what we think of PCM and DSD chipsets, then read the AudioStream interview and Appendix. It goes into quite some detail. This is why we say "True Native."
  
 thanks


----------



## DomieMic65

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just to clarify,
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you very much for your answer!!!!!!!!!
 I admit I didn't read the interview yet!


----------



## DomieMic65

kugino said:


> Why would DoP not be considered native? There is NO conversion to PCM.


 
  
  


kmanchu said:


> +1 There is no PCM conversion. DoP is just a scheme for getting DSD format data through the USB Audio 2.0 protocol.


 
 Thnx guys!!!!!


----------



## nbourbaki

earwaxxer said:


> You should have got a little 'card' in the box. It folds out and has all the colors and what they mean.
> 
> One other thing I found out - the internal battery needs some good amps to charge fully and in a reasonable length of time. I use my Sony 10AH CycleEnergy battery to charge it. I outputs up to 3.6 amps at 5V.


 
  
 Thanks a lot!  I hadn't noticed that on the card before.
  
 Thanks again


----------



## iFi audio

For all nano iDSD owners: Quad-Speed DSD256 for iDSD 
  
  
*Quantum leap to Quad-**Speed** DSD 256 on nano iDSD*
 Not to rest on our laurels, iFi is absolutely over the moon to announce that with the latest firmware update, the nano iDSD is now capable of _True Native_ Quad-Speed DSD256 playback at 11.2MHz/12.4MHz.  The nano iDSD is already the #1 seller in Japan and with the *free* Quad-Speed DSD256 upgrade, there is nothing to touch it.
  
*ASIO 2.2 native DSD transfer*   
 Previously, the only native DSD transmission protocol was DSD over PCM (DoP). With the latest iFi driver, one can choose between ASIO 2.2 or DoP for native DSD playback.
     [1] Firmware 4.0 must be used in conjunction with the latest iFi driver v2.20

  [2] Quad-Speed is four times the SACD sample rate.

  [3] It is also referred to as DSD256 because the sample rate is 256x that of CD.


----------



## GradoSound

OK, I updated my iDSD Nano FW to v4.0 today. I have a Macbook Pro (OSX Mavericks) and a Mac mini (Mavericks and Win7 under Bootcamp). For some reason update did not work under Bootcamp Win7-64bit. I had to do it using Parallels on Macbook Pro. 
  
 When I run Audirvana+ it still reports DSD64 & 128. No DSD256 is recognised. Likewise JRiver for Mac reports only x2 DSD. Am I missing something here? Can anyone confirm what's expected after the update?
  
 Sorry in advance if I missed something obvious and thanks


----------



## john57

My J.River 19 for windows is limited to 2xDSD for upsampling. You are not going to see a DSD256 option. If you have a DSD256 file it may play back it back at DSD256 using bit streaming. HQplayer for windows is the only player I know that can upsample to DSD256. I have heard that it works with the Nano. I have not tried it yet.


----------



## kugino

gradosound said:


> OK, I updated my iDSD Nano FW to v4.0 today. I have a Macbook Pro (OSX Mavericks) and a Mac mini (Mavericks and Win7 under Bootcamp). For some reason update did not work under Bootcamp Win7-64bit. I had to do it using Parallels on Macbook Pro.
> 
> When I run Audirvana+ it still reports DSD64 & 128. No DSD256 is recognised. Likewise JRiver for Mac reports only x2 DSD. Am I missing something here? Can anyone confirm what's expected after the update?
> 
> Sorry in advance if I missed something obvious and thanks


I wonder if audirvana is limited to 128 for now...maybe a software update is needed?


----------



## DomieMic65

I noticed that after upgrading to firmware 4.0 my Mac (A+, and Midi) "sees" the idsd like 24 bit DAC while before it showed like 32 bit.
Is this the case, or I don't remember correctly?
Also on PC the JRMC needs 24 bit integer setting on KS mode in order to play while before it played in 32 integer...

Something went wrong in my instalation or that's the way it is??


----------



## DomieMic65

What about batery?
 Do you prefer it on batery or powered by USB?
  
  
 And how should it be used in order to maintain batery life? 
 Should it be permanently pluged or like any other device should it make charging cycles??


----------



## jexby

domiemic65 said:


> I noticed that after upgrading to firmware 4.0 my Mac (A+, and Midi) "sees" the idsd like 24 bit DAC while before it showed like 32 bit.
> Is this the case, or I don't remember correctly?


 
  
 using Audio Midi Setup to select the iDSD nano on macbook pro:
 with the beta firmware showed as 24 bit, with pulldown selection up to 384.
  
  
 just did my update to 4.0.
 Audio Midi shows same.
  
 using Audirvana+, it recognizes DAC as 24/384.
 but Auto Detection does not recognize "light up" DSD64 or DSD128.
 still must select
  DSD Over PCM


----------



## john57

domiemic65 said:


> Also on PC the JRMC needs 24 bit integer setting on KS mode in order to play while before it played in 32 integer...
> 
> Something went wrong in my instalation or that's the way it is??


 
 Why you are using KS on the PC? ASIO is better. What OS are you using?


----------



## DomieMic65

john57 said:


> Why you are using KS on the PC? ASIO is better. What OS are you using?


 
 I said it as an example about the 24 vs 32 bit matter... I am using Win8.1


----------



## DomieMic65

jexby said:


> using Audio Midi Setup to select the iDSD nano on macbook pro:
> with the beta firmware showed as 24 bit, with pulldown selection up to 384.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think that this is mostly a windows update!!


----------



## jexby

domiemic65 said:


> I think that this is mostly a windows update!!


 
  
 true, yet the fact that this is the official iDSD nano firmware to allow it to function on Apple computers with USB 3.0 chips also makes it relevant to non-Windows.


----------



## DomieMic65

jexby said:


> true, yet the fact that this is the official iDSD nano firmware to allow it to function on Apple computers with USB 3.0 chips also makes it relevant to non-Windows.


 
 Yes of course!!!!!


----------



## elms

Where can I get the new firmware?


----------



## john57

elms said:


> Where can I get the new firmware?


 
 The easy way is to open a support ticket on the IFI web site. It took me less than an hour to get it. You will also get a updated driver that works.


----------



## elms

john57 said:


> The easy way is to open a support ticket on the IFI web site. It took me less than an hour to get it. You will also get a updated driver that works.


 
 Thanks.
 That is the first thing I did, it has been two hours now and no response. I'm guessing they are close at this hour.


----------



## GradoSound

Did anyone manage to install iDSD Win driver (v2.20.0) under 64b Win7? I was able to install the previous version (v2.19.0) before but not the new version. It looks like the new driver was compiled for 32b exclusively and Win7 message was to "contact the software provider to get the correct Win version". This is on Mac Mini (2011) bootcamp. Strange.
  
 Also, do I need to open a service ticket to roll back to the previous firmware or can I download it from Web?


----------



## john57

gradosound said:


> Did anyone manage to install iDSD Win driver (v2.20.0) under 64b Win7? I was able to install the previous version (v2.19.0) before but not the new version. It looks like the new driver was compiled for 32b exclusively and Win7 message was to "contact the software provider to get the correct Win version". This is on Mac Mini (2011) bootcamp. Strange.
> 
> Also, do I need to open a service ticket to roll back to the previous firmware or can I download it from Web?


 
 You have to open a service ticket to get the correct file. I had and a few others the same problem.


----------



## GradoSound

kugino said:


> I wonder if audirvana is limited to 128 for now...maybe a software update is needed?


 
 Could be, I don't know but JRiver (Mac) and Audio Midi (Apple) also failed to recognise the new features. I suspect (on Macs anyway) it feels like a firmware issue. On top of that, actually I get 24bit instead of 32bit now.


----------



## GradoSound

john57 said:


> You have to open a service ticket to get the correct file. I had and a few others the same problem.


 
 Thanks, I just did that.


----------



## earwaxxer

curious to hear if ASIO 2.2 for DSD sound 'better' than DoP. I like ASIO for PCM better than WASAPI.


----------



## john57

earwaxxer said:


> curious to hear if ASIO 2.2 for DSD sound 'better' than DoP. I like ASIO for PCM better than WASAPI.


 
 Previous with the old driver 3.30 I find that DSD128 was a bit laid back and weaker than DSD64 but after the upgrade it sounded much better and the levels match better with the PCM counterpart. If fact I am going to make J.River default to 2xDSD using ASIO 2.2 for native DSD streaming without DoP when playing any PCM files. I just get a better sense of the acoustical space in the recordings.


----------



## iFi audio

gradosound said:


> Did anyone manage to install iDSD Win driver (v2.20.0) under 64b Win7? I was able to install the previous version (v2.19.0) before but not the new version. It looks like the new driver was compiled for 32b exclusively and Win7 message was to "contact the software provider to get the correct Win version". This is on Mac Mini (2011) bootcamp. Strange.
> 
> Also, do I need to open a service ticket to roll back to the previous firmware or can I download it from Web?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This is the Windows Smartscreen Filter in action.
  
 You need to disable.
  
 http://www.howtogeek.com/75356/how-to-turn-off-or-disable-the-smartscreen-filter-in-windows-8/
  
 BUT, if you open a ticket with tech support, one of our guys will email you the files directly so you wont have that issue.
  
 The joys of computer audio.


----------



## JRG1990

Would this work with a galaxy s4 android 4.4.2, also how does it work does it use usb1.1 when connected to an andriod device and does it draw power?.


----------



## iFi audio

jrg1990 said:


> Would this work with a galaxy s4 android 4.4.2, also how does it work does it use usb1.1 when connected to an andriod device and does it draw power?.


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 On the ifi website you can open a support/tech ticket and one of the guys will email you the pdf of the Android info.
  
 thanks


----------



## Dixter

Can someone point me to a tryout for DSD256 files...   so far the updated firmware is working fine for me...
 just need a couple files in DSD256 to try out...


----------



## GradoSound

gradosound said:


> Did anyone manage to install iDSD Win driver (v2.20.0) under 64b Win7? I was able to install the previous version (v2.19.0) before but not the new version. It looks like the new driver was compiled for 32b exclusively and Win7 message was to "contact the software provider to get the correct Win version". This is on Mac Mini (2011) bootcamp. Strange.
> 
> Also, do I need to open a service ticket to roll back to the previous firmware or can I download it from Web?


 
  
 OK, I got to the bottom of this Win7 driver setup issue. I'll explain in a rare case it helps someone else too.
  
 My main daily PC is my Macbook Pro. I do my emails, downloads, general surfing etc on this machine. As usual I downloaded iDSD Nano Win driver on this PC as well. Somehow I got a corrupted exe file although I downloaded it twice. Not knowing this I copied the driver file to my Mac mini bootcamp Win7 computer. During the setup Windows (as usual) gave a very misleading message suggesting to use the correct Windows version (32/64b). After downloading the iDSD audio driver file from the Win7 itself it installed without any issues.
  
 Originally I used Google Chrome under Mavericks. I copy files between Macs and Win machines without any issues for years and this is the first time it's happening. 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Rob N

iRack stack


----------



## Watcherq

Ok, I've got good news and bad news.
  
 First, the good news.  The new firmware + driver makes the iDSD nano run fine on my Lenovo Helix which has USB 3.0 ports.  Previously, I had to either downgrade them to USB 2.0 or use a USB 2.0 hub.  Now, it works fine without it.
  
 Bad news?  The ASIO buffer on the control panel is too small when I use it with JRiver 19's PCM -> DSD128.  Even when I set it to "Low" / 8192 samples buffer size, it stutters quite badly.  DSD64 is fine.
  
 Can I request the buffer size be increased to at least 16k samples, if not 64k samples?


----------



## GradoSound

watcherq said:


> Bad news?  The ASIO buffer on the control panel is too small when I use it with JRiver 19's PCM -> DSD128.  Even when I set it to "Low" / 8192 samples buffer size, it stutters quite badly.  DSD64 is fine.
> 
> Can I request the buffer size be increased to at least 16k samples, if not 64k samples?


 
 +1
  
 I got the same impression.


----------



## john57

Only certain USB streaming modes work well on my system. Safe seems to be the default and there is seven settings.  For example the relaxed mode the sound will cut out or stutter. Low Latency will work but I get a waring on low buffers regardless of buffer size but found no issues. I am leaving the USB streaming mode on Reliable for the time being and it is very quiet during mode switching.Too large a buffer size you might run into issues with lip sync when watching videos. I have tried DXD files without any issues. 4xDSD files are harder to find. If you are using J.River for windows what is your benchmark scores found under Help?   The more I listen the more DSD files and native 2xDSD streaming processing from PCM to DSD shines on the Nano iDSD. I am impressed.


----------



## GradoSound

john57 said:


> The more I listen the more DSD files and native 2xDSD streaming processing from PCM to DSD shines on the Nano iDSD. I am impressed.


 
  
 Yes, after three weeks of daily use my iDSD Nano is fully broken in now and PCM to 2xDSD up-sampling in JRiver Mac sounds like a high end tube amp! Warm and very detailed.


----------



## john57

I was experimenting with the sound samples on the 2L web site. I was playing back DXD and DSD128 files with a Jazz piece called Quiet Winter Nights.   
I came with a few conclusions. J.River real-time conversion from DXD to 2xDSD is lousy as compared to the 2L DXD masters. 2L DSD128 samples comes from their DXD masters and works much better. The DXD file was a bit more laid back and softer even. The DSD128 sample was a bit more forward and more dynamic. The piano in the DSD128 file sound more like a piano and less harpsichord sounding.  That good news to me and confirms that DSD128 is the sweet spot for me regarding file size and quality.


----------



## Watcherq

Ok further analysis on the "bad news" that I had posted.  It seems that it samples count is literally that; for DSD, the warning comes very quickly given its nature.  Let me elaborate.  Using files, DXD and DSD from 2L.com, I run through the combo.  Using DXD, setting "Reliable/8k" showed no warning.  However, DSD64 (aka 2.8MHz) gave the warning.  I had to lower the streaming mode to "Low" to get rid of the message.  That implies that the device or driver literally sees the bitstream per bit as a sample.
  
 However when the same DSD files is wrapped in DoP, there is no warning at "Reliable/8k"!  This is true all the way to DSD128 upsampling of PCM files.
  
 I think iFi needs more work on the direct DSD portion (ie without DoP) to eliminate this bug.


----------



## doushikunlun

Hi, 
  
 Totally new at this. Didn't even know that audio file was converted before it gets to my ears lol. But I ordered one and it's on the way; while waiting, I am planning to pick up a pair of cans that can complement this little device. Been eyeing at Sennheiser HD598, would that be a great choice, and is there a better choice? I listen mostly to classical acoustic guitar and pop music, with budget under $400. I am planning to hook this DAC up with my laptop or maybe samsung s4 with no extra amp, will the 80mW output enough to be used with headphone with higher impedance, say DT-990 250 ohm?
  
 Thanks


----------



## john57

watcherq said:


> Ok further analysis on the "bad news" that I had posted.  It seems that it samples count is literally that; for DSD, the warning comes very quickly given its nature.  Let me elaborate.  Using files, DXD and DSD from 2L.com, I run through the combo.  Using DXD, setting "Reliable/8k" showed no warning.  However, DSD64 (aka 2.8MHz) gave the warning.  I had to lower the streaming mode to "Low" to get rid of the message.  That implies that the device or driver literally sees the bitstream per bit as a sample.
> 
> However when the same DSD files is wrapped in DoP, there is no warning at "Reliable/8k"!  This is true all the way to DSD128 upsampling of PCM files.
> 
> I think iFi needs more work on the direct DSD portion (ie without DoP) to eliminate this bug.


 
 Do you hear the issues when playing the files? I disregard the warning unless I am hearing the issue. I noticed that relaxed mode will really make a mess. I am trying the standard mode for long term testing at 2048 samples. No issues so far except I still get the warning. I even set the buffers to 64 samples, no problem that I can hear. I think that for now the warning is not very accurate for DSD. Pure DSD streaming may not have a large need for buffers and the signal then just goes straight to the analog filter without much need for processing by the chip.  The reason I am thinking  this way is that if I get the warning at buffer size of 4096 for DSD then when I switch the buffer to 64 the sound should breakup but it does not. When I tried the same thing with DXD the sound will definitely breakup at 64 samples. It seems to me that PCM and DXD have a bigger need for buffers for processing by the chip as compared to DSD. I am trying to extrapolate this information without having the background  info on how the Nano iDSD is setup but I am going by the behavior of the device.
 The reason I am using 2048 for buffer size is that I start losing lip syn in video playback at buffer size of 4096 or greater.  It will take me a few days of testing with the Nano iDSD with my pro audio and video editing applications and see if the Nano is up to the task. I may use the low latency mode for this kind of work. I will try many different situations with the Nano and see if I can find its  limit for this kind of work, so far no show stoppers.


----------



## Watcherq

Yes, I heard clicks, stutters and tremors in the music.  Mind you I'm testing this on a 3+ year old x201t.  When I was trying out yesterday and was trying to see if I can find the Windows registry entry to hack the buffer, it gave even more clicks and pops.  It becomes worse as you set the Streaming mode to be more aggressive.


----------



## john57

I reset my DEP is  for only Windows system components and services. Keep my startup files to a  minimum.
 Changed Win7 setting from applications to  background services take priority.
 This is a very important step if you use J.River, set this buffer for 500 milliseconds. This idea came from Schiit for their Loki DSD DAC.  This has totally eliminated all skips and stuttering even when using 64 samples. The only time I get stuttering is from PCM to 2xDSD real-time conversion at 64 samples. I think that I did a good job of getting the most of the AMD Phenom II X4 955 chip. I strongly recommended to everyone to try this buffer setting. The downside is that things like volume control can be sluggish. My workaround is to use the control pot on the nano DSD as a limiter and not to use J.River volume control     

  
 I am a happy camper! More wonders when the micro comes out!


----------



## DomieMic65

Should anybody update from 4.00 to 4.02 firmware? 

Στάλθηκε από το Nexus 7 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk


----------



## DomieMic65

domiemic65 said:


> Should anybody update from 4.00 to 4.02 firmware?



Well yes... It solves the 32 vs 24 bit issue! Among others...


----------



## maczh2002

Hey guys, 
  
 just got an idsd nano.
  
 Why is it when my source files are 24bit, audirvana indicates that the dac is at 32bits?
  
 for example, I'm listening to dave brubeck now with source at 24/176.4, but the output reads 32/96.


----------



## john57

Because that is the maximum bit depth that the device can handle. This happens with my other sound cards as well. For the most part you are just adding zeros to the extra bits. In some cases the extra bit are used. for processing or sound level control. You can tell the software to use bit perfect and not to upsample depending on what you are using for playback.


----------



## maricius

By any chance, has anyone compared the DAC sections of the iDSD and the CLAS -dB? I know the price difference may be too far to consider them to be comparable but we all know price shouldn't always be the determiner.
  
 That being said, Lieven of headfonia.com has recently called the Herus DAC portion comparable to the Theorem/CLAS DACs, both being of the similar quality but of different signatures.


----------



## DomieMic65

Has anybody tried the iDSD with Nexus 7 tablet (otg) and the USB Audio player apk?


----------



## DomieMic65

domiemic65 said:


> Has anybody tried the iDSD with Nexus 7 tablet (otg) and the USB Audio player apk?



USB Audio player PRO


----------



## bmoura

dixter said:


> Can someone point me to a tryout for DSD256 files...   so far the updated firmware is working fine for me...
> just need a couple files in DSD256 to try out...


 
  
 There is a DSD256 sample file with a Violin that is available for download.  Check the Computer Audiophile forum.


----------



## bmoura

john57 said:


> You have to open a service ticket to get the correct file. I had and a few others the same problem.


 
  
 So the Windows driver that is posted on the iFi web site is 32 bit, not 64 bit?  Hmm, that may explain why my new iDSD Nano isn't providing any sound yet!
  
 Which driver mode is preferable - ASIO or WASAPI ?


----------



## Dixter

ASIO seems to be the better one..    which player are you using..


----------



## Dixter

bmoura said:


> There is a DSD256 sample file with a Violin that is available for download.  Check the Computer Audiophile forum.


 

 I looked but could not find it...  do you have a link...
  
 thanks


----------



## john57

bmoura said:


> So the Windows driver that is posted on the iFi web site is 32 bit, not 64 bit?  Hmm, that may explain why my new iDSD Nano isn't providing any sound yet!
> 
> Which driver mode is preferable - ASIO or WASAPI ?


 
 ASIO is generally better. Whatever works better is fine. ASIO does gives the option for direct DSD streaming without using DoP with supported software like J.River. The issue with the driver on the web site was a message saying wrong OS version. That seems a bit different from your issue. IFI seems to fix that file on the web site. The new driver alone with the new firmware now at 4.02 should work for you. Is your volume control on full and battery in the IDSD is charged?


----------



## bmoura

john57 said:


> ASIO is generally better. Whatever works better is fine. ASIO does gives the option for direct DSD streaming without using DoP with supported software like J.River. The issue with the driver on the web site was a message saying wrong OS version. That seems a bit different from your issue. IFI seems to fix that file on the web site. The new driver alone with the new firmware now at 4.02 should work for you. Is your volume control on full and battery in the IDSD is charged?


 
 Thanks John. 
  
 I've tried both ASIO and WASAPI now.  Along with unistalling the driver, rebooting the PC and reinstalling the driver. 
 I've updated the iDSD Nano to the 4.02 firmware.  That didn't address the problem of no sound.
  
 Volume control is on full.
  
 I am wondering about the battery charge.  I had it plugged into the desktop PC USB 3.0 port overnight.  Yet it blinks red when turned on. 
 Is there another way to charge/re-charge the unit besides plugging into a USB port?


----------



## bmoura

dixter said:


> ASIO seems to be the better one..    which player are you using..


 

 JRiver 19.0.135 for Windows.  Also have Foobar available.


----------



## john57

That may be the issue if the battery can not get a full charge then the power up mode you using may be wrong. If you turn on the iDSD without connecting to the USB first it will use just the battery and will ignore and not use the 5v line from the USB for even when connected latter. You have to connect to an active powered USB cable with the iDSD turn off first and then connect the USB cable to the iDSD and just then turn on the iDSD then it will use the 5V from the USB cable and trickle charge the battery.
 Try turning off the iDSD by turning the volume control down all the way counter clockwise and you will fell a click.  Disconnected the USB cable on the back of the iDSD wait almost 10 seconds and then reconnect the USB cable and the light should change to blue for charging while the iDSD is still turn off and let it charge overnight and the light should go out when the battery is fully charged. Then you can turn on the iDSD while the USB is still connected and the iDSD will be using the 5v power from the USB and trickle charge the battery full time. On my PC the USB 5v line is always active even when my PC is powered down. My PC always have the 5v standby power always active to the USB 5v line. Most of this is explained in the iDSD manual and my understanding from that. The red light means that the battery is weak.


----------



## bmoura

john57 said:


> That may be the issue if the battery can not get a full charge then the power up mode you using may be wrong. If you turn on the iDSD without connecting to the USB first it will use just the battery and will ignore and not use the 5v line from the USB for even when connected latter. You have to connect to an active powered USB cable with the iDSD turn off first and then connect the USB cable to the iDSD and just then turn on the iDSD then it will use the 5V from the USB cable and trickle charge the battery.
> 
> Try turning off the iDSD by turning the volume control down all the way counter clockwise and you will fell a click.  Disconnected the USB cable on the back of the iDSD wait almost 10 seconds and then reconnect the USB cable and the light should change to blue for charging while the iDSD is still turn off and let it charge overnight and the light should go out when the battery is fully charged. Then you can turn on the iDSD while the USB is still connected and the iDSD will be using the 5v power from the USB and trickle charge the battery full time. On my PC the USB 5v line is always active even when my PC is powered down. My PC always have the 5v standby power always active to the USB 5v line. Most of this is explained in the iDSD manual and my understanding from that. The red light means that the battery is weak.


 

 I've tried charging it that way.  I'm using the USB cable supplied in the iDSD Nano box.  I assume that is the "active powered USB cable" you describe.  The unit is off, the blue charging light is initially on and then goes out.  So it's not clear whether the unit is still charging at that point or not.
  
 When I check it later, I get the same behavior - blinking red light once the dial is turned on.


----------



## earwaxxer

maczh2002 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> just got an idsd nano.
> 
> ...


 
 I dont have that issue with JRiver - My 24/196 files are 'sent' 24/192 and JRiver has no knowledge or control over what the iDSD does from there. From what I have read, the iDSD upsamples ALL PCM to 32/384. I would say, that you should check your settings in audirvana.


----------



## earwaxxer

bmoura said:


> I've tried charging it that way.  I'm using the USB cable supplied in the iDSD Nano box.  I assume that is the "active powered USB cable" you describe.  The unit is off, the blue charging light is initially on and then goes out.  So it's not clear whether the unit is still charging at that point or not.
> 
> When I check it later, I get the same behavior - blinking red light once the dial is turned on.


 

 I have tried various ways to charge the iDSD. My preferred way is with a high amperage 5v charger like you get from the wall for an iPhone etc. I just use my high amp battery charger that i bought for my iPhones etc. Again, turn off the iDSD, plug in the charger, you should see the blue light. Even with a high amp charger it should take many hours for it to charge from dead (red light). If the blue light goes out quickly even with the wall charger, I would say something is wrong with the iDSD.


----------



## john57

I agree at this point. Since the red light start flashing as soon you turn on the iDSD this may be a issue other than the battery. If i understand you correctly this happens right after you flashed the firmware. You can try the latest firmware or open a support ticket at IFI web site at this point.


----------



## bmoura

john57 said:


> I agree at this point. Since the red light start flashing as soon you turn on the iDSD this may be a issue other than the battery. If i understand you correctly this happens right after you flashed the firmware. You can try the latest firmware or open a support ticket at IFI web site at this point.


 

 I've opened a support ticket with iFI.  So we're exploring the issues. 
  
 I was able to get the iDSD Nano to change light colors (modes) as music was sent to the unit.  But there's still no sound coming from the unit.  So I'm guessing things are moving in the right direction.


----------



## Dixter

I think I'd plug it into one of the wall type USB chargers overnight and then I'd re load the firmware two times...  it says this on their website.
 Then I'd plug it into the computer and play around with it...
  
 If your using windows then after you plug the idsd into the computer right click on the small speaker icon (lower right of the main screen) and open the "Playback devices"  and you should see the idsd... it probably wont be called idsd so one way to tell which one it is to watch the
 playback devices window... and unplug the idsd and see what device went away... then plug the idsd in again and again watch the device window and when a new device is added chose that device with a right mouse click and goto properties..  and there you can name that device
 idsd and change the icon to what you want it to be...  instead of a speaker icon...  
 Then highlight the new device you created and click " set default "      now you will see a green checkbox on your new idsd icon and your idsd should start to put out music...   if you want while in the device properties area you can click on the various items and there are "test" buttons that will let you test the connection that way...  now you will need to set up your playback program...


----------



## SubSTI

Happy iDSD Nano user. I can confirm the iDSD Nano works fine with an unrooted Google Nexus 7 2013 on stock Android 4.4, USB OTG cable and USB Audio Player Pro software.
 LED color on iDSD corresponds with actual output as well.


----------



## eligeorgia

Brand new to the Head-Fi forum....so...please be gentle.
  
 I'm pretty much a newbie to all of this stuff, and I have a few "silly" questions.
  
 The firmware issues....is this a Windows/PC only issue?  If I am connecting the Nano to a Macbook Pro, do I need to worry?
  
 I also am attempting to connect the Nano to a Squeezebox Touch streamer.  I did so successfully earlier today, but I had signal dropouts and what seemed to be "buffering" issues between the Touch and the DAC.  Only with 24/192 files as far as I can tell. (I don't have any DSD files)
  
 I didn't have this problem going out of the Mac.  I think the Touch is based on a linux platform.  Should I be updating firmware?
  
 If the answer is yes, I'll probably ask HOW after that.
  
 Thanks to all.


----------



## SubSTI

The firmware update to V4.02 solves some of the USB3 issues on MAC's as well.
 The firmware downloadpage is a bit hidden on the ifi website: http://ifi-audio.com/ifi-xmos-firmware/, you can find instructions there as well, straight forward action.
 Good luck,
 Daan


----------



## SubSTI

doublepost. Reply above with link came through anyhow.


----------



## eligeorgia

But it looks like I will have to update it with a windows PC?? Is that right?


----------



## kugino

eligeorgia said:


> But it looks like I will have to update it with a windows PC?? Is that right?


Yes. Or via parallels or other virtualization software running windows on the Mac.


----------



## Nuttinbutair

maczh2002 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> just got an idsd nano.
> ...



 

Audirvana uses the maximum bit depth of the DAC or bridge by default. The signal is not affected by using the maximum bit depth, the unused portion of the depth is just padded with zeros. I am sure there is a better technical reference, but have found this for a little more on the topic:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-1-4-a-14190-print/index34.html

You can also experiment with the sound difference between 24 bit and 32 as a check by using the Audirvana Preferences -> Audio System -> button at the bottom.


----------



## earwaxxer

eligeorgia said:


> I also am attempting to connect the Nano to a Squeezebox Touch streamer.  I did so successfully earlier today, but I had signal dropouts and what seemed to be "buffering" issues between the Touch and the DAC.  Only with 24/192 files as far as I can tell. (I don't have any DSD files)
> 
> I didn't have this problem going out of the Mac.  I think the Touch is based on a linux platform.  Should I be updating firmware?
> 
> ...


 
 I would probably take the opportunity to ditch the Touch. I know its hard. I have the Transporter, and have moved on for some time now. Squeezebox Server has been abandoned, and at this point there are much better interfaces out there for PC or MAC. The PC/MAC is a much better basis for the USB DAC's of today (high res. DSD, etc.). I dont know about the Touch over USB, but I know that my PC over USB sounds much better than my Transported did over SPDIF.


----------



## maczh2002

it.. is. AWESOMEEEEEEEEEE.
  
  
 listening to Chie Ayado's rendition of Mas Que Nada and the percussion is oh so sweet.
  
 Way way way way WAY better than the FiiO E07K i used to have.
  
  
 Using audirvana on a macbook air with Philips Fidelio X1 by the way.


----------



## eligeorgia

earwaxxer said:


> I would probably take the opportunity to ditch the Touch. I know its hard. I have the Transporter, and have moved on for some time now. Squeezebox Server has been abandoned, and at this point there are much better interfaces out there for PC or MAC. The PC/MAC is a much better basis for the USB DAC's of today (high res. DSD, etc.). I dont know about the Touch over USB, but I know that my PC over USB sounds much better than my Transported did over SPDIF.


 
  
 Well, that's something I've been thinking long and hard about.  I'm really pretty clueless about this stuff so my head is swimming with different options, such as NAS>modified Mac Mini>DAC vs Vortexbox>SoTM SMS-100 Mini Server>DAC vs a PC based setup like a CAPS computer>DAC, as designed by Chris at computeraudiophile.com.
  
 But I'm most excited about the Auralic Aries coming out soon.  Seems to be custom made for someone who wants to use a USB DAC in their setup.  It has a iOS/Android controller that looks more elegant than Logitech Media Server, which works well but isn't an intuitive or attractive interface if you ask me. The Aries is basically a custom audio computer purely designed for high quality playback.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## KmanChu

earwaxxer said:


> I would probably take the opportunity to ditch the Touch. I know its hard. I have the Transporter, and have moved on for some time now. Squeezebox Server has been abandoned, and at this point there are much better interfaces out there for PC or MAC. The PC/MAC is a much better basis for the USB DAC's of today (high res. DSD, etc.). I dont know about the Touch over USB, but I know that my PC over USB sounds much better than my Transported did over SPDIF.


 
 Sadly this is true. I still have the Touch in my main system through one of the SPDIF outputs because it is still just so damn useful in that it allows me to mix Rhapsody or MOG tracks with my own tracks in playlists. I also have a Squeezebox Boom that I can synch with it for multiroom use. It was such a solid foundation, I wish Logitech hadn't canned it. They were so well positioned to move forward but just didn't have the vision. Their open source, web-based server format which allowed third party user interfaces like iPeng was brilliant.


----------



## earwaxxer

eligeorgia said:


> Well, that's something I've been thinking long and hard about.  I'm really pretty clueless about this stuff so my head is swimming with different options, such as NAS>modified Mac Mini>DAC vs Vortexbox>SoTM SMS-100 Mini Server>DAC vs a PC based setup like a CAPS computer>DAC, as designed by Chris at computeraudiophile.com.
> 
> But I'm most excited about the Auralic Aries coming out soon.  Seems to be custom made for someone who wants to use a USB DAC in their setup.  It has a iOS/Android controller that looks more elegant than Logitech Media Server, which works well but isn't an intuitive or attractive interface if you ask me. The Aries is basically a custom audio computer purely designed for high quality playback.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Just my opinion on this, but It makes sense to me to use a laptop, vs going with some sort of dedicated server/computer. I think that the gains form going with something like what Chris K. put together are minimal vs. a basic laptop that you can also use as a laptop! The iPurifier etc can filter the noise from a laptop a lot cheaper. BTW, I JUST discovered that going with SDHC storage of my files on my laptop sounds significantly better than those from my external hard drive. I keep finding new stuff. - Cheers!


----------



## SubSTI

Second that.
 I have put all my music and movies on a Synology NAS, which I (and the rest of the family) can access in house and remotely with:
 Laptop Acer V5-573G with 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD running JRiver MC19 and local copy of my music and iDSD
 Nexus 7 2013 32GB with UAPP or JRiver Gizmo and iDSD.
 Unfortunately my  Blackberry Z10 won't support USB OTG, so I have some music stored locally with Neutron player and Spotify premium.


----------



## eligeorgia

earwaxxer said:


> Just my opinion on this, but It makes sense to me to use a laptop, vs going with some sort of dedicated server/computer. I think that the gains form going with something like what Chris K. put together are minimal vs. a basic laptop that you can also use as a laptop! The iPurifier etc can filter the noise from a laptop a lot cheaper. BTW, I JUST discovered that going with SDHC storage of my files on my laptop sounds significantly better than those from my external hard drive. I keep finding new stuff. - Cheers!


 
 Well, yes, I have the laptop already, but kinda wanting to move toward an iPad interface.  I would prefer not to have to rely on having my laptop turned on and open if possible.  I think my small listening room would benefit from simply having an iPad on the coffee table with an intuitive app to control playback.
  
 I can still use my laptop to download music, then sync it to the NAS, and otherwise the laptop doesn't have to be present.  The laptop also becomes a distraction from true listening sessions, which is my ultimate goal.  Pure music enjoyment.
  
 I think that's what the Auralic Aries was designed for.


----------



## maricius

Guys, DM from computeraudiophile.com just posted his review of the iDSD Nano (with his rating). If you go back to the first page of the thread you may see his comparisons with some other DACs and how he rated them to give a sense of relation.
  
  
 (Link to the iDSD Nano section) 
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/review-portable-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-dacs-audioquest-dragonfly-meridian-explorer-director-ifi-idac-idsd-geek-out-pulse-19272/index3.html#post322830


----------



## maczh2002

how do i charge the idsd?
  
 do i turn it off and plug the usb cable into one of those standard wall plugs that output 5V/1A?
  
 Or do i have to turn it on then plug it in?
  
 or can i only charge it by using the macbook air's usb port? If yes then should the idsd be on or off while charging?


----------



## eligeorgia

maczh2002 said:


> how do i charge the idsd?
> 
> do i turn it off and plug the usb cable into one of those standard wall plugs that output 5V/1A?
> 
> ...


 
 I think I read that if you turn the idsd ON, and THEN plug it in to USB, you are in "battery" mode and the device is NOT charging.  If you plug it in while turned OFF, that activates the charging mode, and the device will pull a charge. I think you can then turn the device ON, and use it while it's pulling a charge.
  
 I think that someone here mentioned charging it faster by using a USB wall charger.  Perhaps something like the little Apple USB charging base that most people charge their iPhone with would work?  I'm not advocating that you do that without knowing for sure that it's safe for the Nano, but someone else here might confirm that it works fine.
  
 Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here!


----------



## iFi audio

eligeorgia said:


> I think I read that if you turn the idsd ON, and THEN plug it in to USB, you are in "battery" mode and the device is NOT charging.  If you plug it in while turned OFF, that activates the charging mode, and the device will pull a charge. I think you can then turn the device ON, and use it while it's pulling a charge.
> 
> I think that someone here mentioned charging it faster by using a USB wall charger.  Perhaps something like the little Apple USB charging base that most people charge their iPhone with would work?  I'm not advocating that you do that without knowing for sure that it's safe for the Nano, but someone else here might confirm that it works fine.
> 
> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here!


 
  
 1. Correct. On the 2 different power up sequences.
  
 2. Yes, even the Apple iPad 12W charger is fine to use with the nano iDSD because it puts out 5.1v which is a shade above the USB power spec of 5.0v. So not an issue.
  
 For your reference:
  

 Apple Chargers:

*Source**Voltage**Current**Power*PC USB5 volts0.5 amps2.5 WattsiPhone Charger5 volts1.0 amps5 WattsiPad Charger5.1 volts2.1 amps12 watts

 Source: https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3511


----------



## Gkat

photo of my new "components"...nano & iusb
  

  
 sorry for the quality...taken with my phone...I use them to drive my monitor speakers
  
 want to ask if its a problem to place them so close to my pc...is it going to be an unwanted interference between pc-parts and the dac/iusb?
 will affect the dac in any way?


----------



## ClieOS

gkat said:


> photo of my new "components"...nano & iusb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are worrying about EMI, then I'll say you are just fine. As noisy as PC are, it will take a much stronger signal (i.e. cellphone) in close proximity to really cause any interfering. If there is any noise, it is most likely going to come from the USB cable, which iUSB would have taken off.


----------



## Gkat

clieos said:


> If you are worrying about EMI, then I'll say you are just fine. As noisy as PC are, it will take a much stronger signal (i.e. cellphone) in close proximity to really cause any interfering. If there is any noise, it is most likely going to come from the USB cable, which iUSB would have taken off.


 
  
 thank you for your answer...
  
 EMI problems was the reason of my question...
  
 I am planning later to separate entirely the system by "building" a nuc pc, for audio-only playback...
 first of of all, its completely quiet and I will add to it, only the operating system (linux or win) and foobar or jriver...
  
 it will be free of unwanted programms, that may cause problems to the reproduction of audio files...


----------



## john57

What I have done and a few others is to have more than one OS partition on the same PC and switch between them for maximum performance for a particular group of software. My audio workstation partition is separate from my HTPC or general partition. For me I do not see a need in getting extra computer hardware just for music playback and I am somewhat limited in space. My PC has extensive custom sound proofing in the case as well with fan-less graphic cards and other techniques.


----------



## Gkat

john57 said:


> What I have done and a few others is to have more than one OS partition on the same PC and switch between them for maximum performance for a particular group of software. My audio workstation partition is separate from my HTPC or general partition. For me I do not see a need in getting extra computer hardware just for music playback and I am somewhat limited in space. My PC has extensive custom sound proofing in the case as well with fan-less graphic cards and other techniques.


 
 I have thought the solution you said to make a partition on my disk, for adding there only the software I need for audio playback...
  
 the reason I am thinking for a nuc-pc, is because I need to make lot of changes to my desktop-pc in order to make it quitter, and probably, still, won't be "dead quiet" as the nuc
 moreover, space is not an issue for me...I made the small rack you see on the pic, in order to place the nuc-pc at the top of it..
  
 so, .iusb on the bottom, nano dsd in the middle and the nuc on the top 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 then, I will have my "small system" all in one place, with the advantage to be able to take it anywhere I want...
  
 I thought it this way and decided that a nuc-pc wiil be a better solution for me


----------



## analogsurviver

I have a friend with Nano and I am getting it for a test over a couple of days.
  
 Which software is recommended for Win 7 and DSD *ONLY* ? It can play PCM as well - as long it does not compromise native DSD in the slightest.  I record my own DSD material and lack of DSD up to DSD128 is no issue. I am running Foobar 2000 at the time, but have heard people say this is not exactly the best of solutions.
 The reason I am interested in nano is the ability to play DSD natively from external HDDs via computer. I can always load the DSD files to my Korg DSD recorders, but it is extremely inconvinient to quickly find a particular spot on any given live concert - performers would like usually compare "Song X" from various concerts - and scrolling to the point on Korg is a nerve racking experience - if that "song" is towards the end of one hour long file and people expect nowadays everything at the click of a mouse.
  
 However , whatever DSD capable  DAC should I end up with, it should not lag too far behind the Korg in SQ - if there is a significant difference in SQ - simply not interested. There is also a question of Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder for me - it can also be used as DAC only, besides being of obvious use to me as a recording engineer.  If anyone familiar with DA-3000 or even made comparison, I am all ears !
  
 Two days ago, Korg released the latest version of its AudioGate software, the V 3.0.2  . It is significantly different from previous full featured versions, as well as intial version of AudioGate *PLAYER* , the V 3.0.1 . I am getting used to it, but this change came when I have least time to fiddle with it. The new AudioGate , for the first time, features a High Quality conversion from DSD to PCM (and vice versa ). That is another reason I am eager to test the nano - but it is a bit much on the plate over a short period of time.
  
 So please keep it brief - for somebody that only after advent of DSD128 for reasonable price is grundgingly accepting digital - because it sounds the closest to analog. I deal with computer because I have to - not because I would like to, it was my pleasure or - God forbid - even my hobby.
 I should also note the best music to my ears is - Windows (whatever version ) signing off.  Period.


----------



## john57

I use J.River and it can stream DSD natively in bit streaming without using DoP. J.River can also convert on the fly any PCM to DSD128. Foobar is limited in convert Red Book PCM to DSD. I use J.River also for my DLNA devices. J.River have excellent library, file tagging and tools selection. You can download a 30 day trial. There is also HQPlayer as well that you can look into. Take care


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> I use J.River and it can stream DSD natively in bit streaming without using DoP. J.River can also convert on the fly any PCM to DSD128. Foobar is limited in convert Red Book PCM to DSD. I use J.River also for my DLNA devices. J.River have excellent library, file tagging and tools selection. You can download a 30 day trial. There is also HQPlayer as well that you can look into. Take care


 
 Thanks for keeping it brief - J.River was the "prime suspect" of mine also. 
  
 Now HQPlayer also _looks _promising. I guess I will have to test both.


----------



## earwaxxer

To add some new discoveries with DSD... I thought I would revisit 2xDSD using JRiver to upsample my redbook library on the fly over ASIO, since that is new with the new firmware. Native DSD over ASIO. No DoP. At first it played slow and a bit choppy so I made sure all my buffers were maxed out and that solved the problem. I have tried SO MANY different combinations (upsample with SoX min filters, native redbook upsampled on the fly with JRiver. Native redbook to the iDSD, redbook upsampled to 24/192, and 24/385 with JRiver.
  
 Well crap, one thing im realizing is that a 'difference' sometimes, in and of itself sounds 'good'. - lets just say for right now the redbook upsampled with JRiver to 2xDSD native over ASIO wins. Very natural and clean. Good definition and realism, especially noted in piano


----------



## GradoSound

earwaxxer said:


> To add some new discoveries with DSD... I thought I would revisit 2xDSD using JRiver to upsample my redbook library on the fly over ASIO, since that is new with the new firmware. Native DSD over ASIO. No DoP. At first it played slow and a bit choppy so I made sure all my buffers were maxed out and that solved the problem. I have tried SO MANY different combinations (upsample with SoX min filters, native redbook upsampled on the fly with JRiver. Native redbook to the iDSD, redbook upsampled to 24/192, and 24/385 with JRiver.
> 
> Well crap, one thing im realizing is that a 'difference' sometimes, in and of itself sounds 'good'. - lets just say for right now the redbook upsampled with JRiver to 2xDSD native over ASIO wins. Very natural and clean. Good definition and realism, especially noted in piano


 
 +1
  
 On OSX JRiver 2x DSD up-sampling sounds sweet as well.


----------



## mink70

I don't have a Windows machine and don't know anyone who does. Is there no way to upgrade the iDSD's firmware on OSX?


----------



## jexby

mink70,
  
 iFi support told me "No to OS X" a few weeks back when I was trying to upgrade to 4.0.
 alas had to borrow a neighbor's old PC to do the update.


----------



## lakai

i am using foobar2000 to play all my pcm transcoded to quad DSD with my idsd on v4.0..... and foobar has  the option  
 to stream dsd natively or upconvert to 2xDSD or 4xDSD, ASIO direct.... to my ears, the 4xdsd is a step up from 2xdsd, DoP,
 on firmware 3.3  and even 2xDSD on v4.0


----------



## garyalex

I thought some of you might be interested in an exchange I'm involved in at audioasylum.com.  I have the iFi Nano DSD and like it very much.  However, Gordon Rankin, with whose work some of you may be familiar, apparently doesn't believe there's any merit in converting PCM to DSD.  In fact, his explanation of the steps involved to make it happen did cause me a moment or two of doubt.  That doubt quickly evaporated after a follow-up listening session.
  
 Gordon is a very knowledgeable and skilled designer.  I have nothing but admiration for his accomplishments.  Still, I think he's missing something here:
  
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/13/135381.html
  
 Thanks
  
 Gary


----------



## kugino

I'm on Gordon's side here. Just because something is DSD doesn't make it automatically sound better. Same like something in FLAC or mp3. If someone's creating a FLAC file from an mp3, I would say that's garbage. What matters is the mastering and the quality of the original source. 

In the micro iDSD thread Thorstens from iFi/ARM gives a nice run-down on how hard it is to convert to/from PCM and DSD. Keep it in whatever the original format was...I don't get why you'd want to convert from PCM to DSD.


----------



## KmanChu

I think the grossly simplified rationale behind using DSD is that it is simpler to implement a good DSD dac than PCM dac, and that the reconstruction filters required by PCM are the difficulty which DSD bypasses. DSD presents lots of problems though on the recording and editing end, and then upon playback a lot of ultrasonic noise is created which has to be filtered out. Pretty much all recording (except for some boutique stuff) is done in PCM, and DSD only might be offered as a final delivery format.
  
 To me, redbook that is upsampled to 2x DSD does seem to improve in some aspects of sound but causes problems with other areas. Any PCM quality higher than redbook seems to suffer to me if upsampled (but this could be due to the strengths of my specific DAC, note NOT an iDSD.) 
  
 For some comparisons, the 2L website offers some free tracks in 352khzPCM, 192kPCM, 96k PCM, DSD64 and DSD128 formats. Their records are sonically superlative so they are great for comparing formats. To try tracks go to their website:
  
 http://www.2l.no/   and look at the "2L brand store" in the upper right and select "HD Test Bench Audio Files." The Mozart violin concerto at the top is a fantastic track in any resolution!


----------



## mink70

kugino said:


> I don't get why you'd want to convert from PCM to DSD.


 
  
 The reason is that many listeners find that it sounds better. The best sound, by far, that I've experienced from my MacBook is listening to native DSD, followed by PCM upsampled to DSD on the fly via JRiver 19. I don't have the audio design experience of either Gordon Rankin or Charlie Hansen (of Ayre), who seem to have passionately held opinions against DSD, but I don't see how any technical discussion could possibly trump listening. And yet these forums are full of people who just know something *must* sound bad because it contradicts their belief system. USB cables all sound the same, because they *must,* and people prefer tube amps because they like the sound of "colorations," and all digital data streams sound identical, because, after all, they're just ones and zeros. The truth is that we still know fairly little about how digital domain changes affect listening. How else to explain talented audio engineers disagreeing with each other about nearly everything pertaining to upsampling, software, DSD, and basic approaches to designing a DAC?


----------



## kugino

mink70 said:


> The reason is that many listeners find that it sounds better. The best sound, by far, that I've experienced from my MacBook is listening to native DSD, followed by PCM upsampled to DSD on the fly via JRiver 19. I don't have the audio design experience of either Gordon Rankin or Charlie Hansen (of Ayre), who seem to have passionately held opinions against DSD, but I don't see how any technical discussion could possibly trump listening. And yet these forums are full of people who just know something *must* sound bad because it contradicts their belief system. USB cables all sound the same, because they *must,* and people prefer tube amps because they like the sound of "colorations," and all digital data streams sound identical, because, after all, they're just ones and zeros. The truth is that we still know fairly little about how digital domain changes affect listening; anyone who claims otherwise is full of it. How else to explain talented audio engineers disagreeing with each other about nearly everything pertaining to upsampling, software, DSD, and basic approaches to designing a DAC?


I have no doubt that people think it sounds better. Like i have no doubt there are people who still think the earth is flat.


----------



## mink70

kugino said:


> I have no doubt that people think it sounds better. Like i have no doubt there are people who still think the earth is flat.


 
 Have you actually listened, or are you so sure of your opinions that you just *know* it can't sound good?


----------



## analogsurviver

mink70 said:


> Have you actually listened, or are you so sure of your opinions that you just *know* it can't sound good?


 
 The whole point of how computer audio actually sounds is very hard to say - because it mainly runs on *personal *computers. Which are just that - personal. And can vary in performance and settings almost infinitely. It is impossible they will all sound the same with given software and hardware .
  
 It is perfectly possible for one computer to "inaudibly" misbehave - making a superior file sounding worse, because it is not capable enough or set up to play that file well enough - or both. 
  
 I will try to compare what various players are actually doing to files, particularly when "upsampling". If players are actually capable of "connecting the line between the dots" - that would be pro for upsampling. That goes particularly for PCM - from MP3 up. If not - there still remains the possibility that now equipment can use less sharp filtering, thus making sound better - but it will be again setup dependent.
  
 What I did find to definitely bring dividens is upsampling DSD64 to DSD128 - no, you do not get what was not initially recorded, but the noise above the audible range is considerably reduced. I forgot by hom much - the least 6 dB, the most 20 dB. I was curious about this and "upsampled" a few of my own masters recorded in DSD64 - and they sound better converted to DSD128. I did conversion using Korg Audiogate.


----------



## analogsurviver

I am struggling to get DSD128 playback with nano iDSD and HQPlayer - it keeps maxing out at sampling rate of 3072000, which is obviously too low to play the required 5644800 - despite setting 12288000 for the bit rate limit, etc. Does anyone know the system requirements for HQPlayer for DSD128 ?
  
 It works OK with DSD64 .


----------



## Dixter

mink70 said:


> The reason is that many listeners find that it sounds better. The best sound, by far, that I've experienced from my MacBook is listening to native DSD, followed by PCM upsampled to DSD on the fly via JRiver 19. I don't have the audio design experience of either Gordon Rankin or Charlie Hansen (of Ayre), who seem to have passionately held opinions against DSD, but I don't see how any technical discussion could possibly trump listening. And yet these forums are full of people who just know something *must* sound bad because it contradicts their belief system. USB cables all sound the same, because they *must,* and people prefer tube amps because they like the sound of "colorations," and all digital data streams sound identical, because, after all, they're just ones and zeros. The truth is that we still know fairly little about how digital domain changes affect listening. How else to explain talented audio engineers disagreeing with each other about nearly everything pertaining to upsampling, software, DSD, and basic approaches to designing a DAC?


 

 Hey Mink70...  can you tell me where the option is set in Jriver 19 to upsample PCM to DSD
  
 thanks


----------



## mink70

dixter said:


> Hey Mink70...  can you tell me where the option is set in Jriver 19 to upsample PCM to DSD
> 
> thanks


 
 Sure Dixter, though keep in mind that I'm using the OSX version. Go to Player-->Playback Options, click on DSP & Output Format, and then in the Output Encoding dropdown, select 2xDSD in DoP Format. I find that my music does sound better upsampled to 2xDSD, (probably because of superior noise behavior). Also, to play native DSD, go to Player-->Playback Options, click on Bitstreaming, and check DSD. It took me a while to figure this out, as JRiver does not have the most intuitive interface.


----------



## Dixter

OK thanks...   I'll try that and see how it sounds...


----------



## mink70

dixter said:


> OK thanks...   I'll try that and see how it sounds...


 
 Let us know. I'd be very curious to know what you think.


----------



## earwaxxer

kugino said:


> I'm on Gordon's side here. Just because something is DSD doesn't make it automatically sound better. Same like something in FLAC or mp3. If someone's creating a FLAC file from an mp3, I would say that's garbage. What matters is the mastering and the quality of the original source.
> 
> In the micro iDSD thread Thorstens from iFi/ARM gives a nice run-down on how hard it is to convert to/from PCM and DSD. Keep it in whatever the original format was...I don't get why you'd want to convert from PCM to DSD.


 

 I can totally understand the logic here, because PCM does certain things well, and DSD does other things well, so when you convert the PCM to DSD you loose the stuff that PCM did well, and you dont get the advantage of what the DSD does well when its native. At least thats my non technical summary of what I have read. Totally makes sense. Thats why I have not played in DSD mode with my iDSD previously, because I dont have any native DSD, and upsampling to DSD made no sense.
  
 Again, well crap, it does sound better. I will admit that the DSD over DoP on the old firmware and delivered upsampled with JRiver 19 the 'benefits' were a bit of a stretch. So, I went back to PCM and lived my life. Then I discovered ASIO worked better, then I thought to recheck bit-streaming up-sampled redbook to 2xDSD over ASIO. Sorry, its good. Oh and another thing... It was good enough for me to notice that my files on SD card sound better than those off my internal hard drive!  - peace.


----------



## mink70

earwaxxer said:


> I will admit that the DSD over DoP on the old firmware and delivered upsampled with JRiver 19 the 'benefits' were a bit of a stretch.


 
  
 Quick question: this new, firmware-enabled "direct DSD over ASIO" mode is only possible on WIndows, right? There's no similar option for OSX users? Or am I not understanding this right?


----------



## earwaxxer

mink70 said:


> Quick question: this new, firmware-enabled "direct DSD over ASIO" mode is only possible on WIndows, right? There's no similar option for OSX users? Or am I not understanding this right?


 
 That I dont know, maybe the iFi folks can chime in on that. I know that WASAPI is windows, so I'm not sure if OSX uses ASIO by default etc.


----------



## mink70

Did a quick experiment this afternoon using the iDSD Nano with JRiver 19 on a MacBook Pro running OS 10.6.8. Confirmed results on both the speaker setup (Shindo electronics and big vintage Tannoys) as well as headphones (AT W3000ANV--love these!). I played a redbook AIFF of the Miles Davis sextet playing "Circle," from "Miles Smiles," a track I love and know well, at the native sampling rate and upsampled to 24/96, 24/196, and 2xDSD over DoP. (I skipped 1xDSD because I found 2xDSD superior in every way). I also played the track in native DSD from an SACD rip (admittedly a different mix). Keep in mind that this one piece of software with one DAC over one OS, so the results are hardly global.
  
 Here's what I found: native DSD is easily the best in every respect. For me, a revelation in terms of smoothness, color, clarity, delicacy and involvement. More like real music, a lot more. The best sound from digital I've heard. Among the upsampled formats, a mixed bag. (I tried to adjust for volume differences, but wasn't scientific about it). Native redbook was the least engaging. The music was rough sounding, like a kind of sonic sandpaper was applied. Maybe coarse is a better word. Grayish tonal colors. 24/96 sounded better: far more dynamic, with richer bass, more sound density, and more drive. Bigger images. A lot of fun. Tonal colors were resolutely gray, though, with a kind of grainy overlay. Miles's trumpet and Herbie Hancock's piano didn't sound all that much like a trumpet and a piano, which kind of ruined the punchy, rich sound. 24/192 cleaned up the timbres and made the music more colorful, but the expense of dynamics and drive and bass. Weird. Meh. 2xDSD: Here, the timbres of the instruments sounded MUCH better. The piano was now made of wood and string and the trumpet of brass. Best precision, clarity, and transparency of the bunch. On the flipside, the bass slam and scale of the music decreased (though I can't completely swear this wasn't partly due to volume differences). Not nearly as good as native DSD, but really quite nice and, most importantly, very engaging.
  
 Take the above for what it's worth, which may not be much. But I wanted to share.


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> I am struggling to get DSD128 playback with nano iDSD and HQPlayer - it keeps maxing out at sampling rate of 3072000, which is obviously too low to play the required 5644800 - despite setting 12288000 for the bit rate limit, etc. Does anyone know the system requirements for HQPlayer for DSD128 ?
> 
> It works OK with DSD64 .


 
 The only thing that was published with HQPlayer was CPU support for SSE3 instruction set. You did not gave info on what is your setup is. On the window version of J.River you can download the trial version and run the benchmark under tools, A score of 3000 is better in converting PCM to DSD128 in real-time is what J.River recommends.


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> The only thing that was published with HQPlayer was CPU support for SSE3 instruction set. You did not gave info on what is your setup is. On the window version of J.River you can download the trial version and run the benchmark under tools, A score of 3000 is better in converting PCM to DSD128 in real-time is what J.River recommends.


 
 Sorry for omitting the setup. It is Esprimo Q 9000, Intel i5 CPU  M520 @2.40 GHz    4GB RAM    64bit OS .
  
 It is extremely nice as it is small ( think 4 DVD cases - a bit shorter and a bit wider, but that really IS it ) _*& QUIET*_, downsize is it can not be expanded/upgraded - no way (I am aware of ) to fit more RAM etc.
  
 The latest version of Korg Audiogate, the V3.0.2, recommends CPU equal to or better than 2.66 GHz. .  As far as I can tell, it works as it should. - but I feel I might be on the brink of stretching it all. I also have trial versions of JRiver 19 and HQPlayer installed - and very curious thing happened yesterday. I had the same file opened in both JRiver and Audiogate - I naturally was interested in SQ difference(s) , if any . I spent last 24 hours or so digging out as much as I could on DSD players - also stumbled upon http://hi-fi-avenue.blogspot.com/2012/03/audiogate-gateway-to-good-sound.html . As a seasoned user of Audiogate, it naturally raised an eyebrow.
 After finishing playing the same file in JRiver, Audiogate started to play - at double speed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Obviously, either the load on CPU was too much - or the two softs are similar and share more than something in common. Had to close down the JRiver and restart the Audiogate in order to listen to the file with Audiogate. Believe me, at that point the difference in SQ was the least of my concerns ...- but will update once the dust settles a bit.
  
 I also cofigured foobar2000 for DSD ( over DoP ) and DXD playback. When playing DSD128, it generally outputs gibberish for a fraction of second(s) - and then plays fine. One has to be careful with volume at the start of the playback.  No problem with DXD or DSD64.
  
 I could not get the JRiver to play DXD - it keeps going to 176/192 ? It must be me doing something wrong.
  
 Thank you for bringing my attention to JRiver Benchmark. I just run the test and my score is 3068 - meaning it can run JRiver and nothing else for good performance.
  
 I did also  look longingly at the XXHighEnd player - but after seeing the requirements had to back off.
  
  
 Here the full JRiver Benchmark results for my setup:
  
 === Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
  
 Running 'Math' benchmark...
     Single-threaded integer math... 4,941 seconds
     Single-threaded floating point math... 2,790 seconds
     Multi-threaded integer math... 2,622 seconds
     Multi-threaded mixed math... 1,818 seconds
 Score: 1561
  
 Running 'Image' benchmark...
     Image creation / destruction... 0,226 seconds
     Flood filling... 1,240 seconds
     Direct copying... 1,232 seconds
     Small renders... 2,056 seconds
     Bilinear rendering... 1,966 seconds
     Bicubic rendering... 1,588 seconds
 Score: 2648
  
 Running 'Database' benchmark...
     Create database... 0,379 seconds
     Populate database... 1,882 seconds
     Save database... 0,463 seconds
     Reload database... 0,072 seconds
     Search database... 1,782 seconds
     Sort database... 1,498 seconds
     Group database... 0,931 seconds
 Score: 3068
  
 JRMark (version 19.0.128): 2426


----------



## bmoura

Just got my iFi DSD going today. 
  
 A suggestion for Nano owners: over on the NativeDSD.Com web site they have a new feature named "Just Listen" with free music downloads at DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256.
  
 Most of the 8 music selections are recorded natively at DSD128 (2x SACD resolution) - but two of the 8 tracks are Classical Guitar recorded natively at DSD256 (4x SACD resolution)!  Very cool - and just the thing to test out the Nano.
 Visit https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation to download the files.


----------



## analogsurviver

bmoura said:


> Just got my iFi DSD going today.
> 
> A suggestion for Nano owners: over on the NativeDSD.Com web site they have a new feature named "Just Listen" with free music downloads at DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for sharing the link. I have been struggling to download DSD256 files from _the link within _this link 
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/originally-recorded-dsd256-piano-solo-sources-japanese-group-wechseldominate-19942/
 for past few days - without sucess. The download starts, is extremely slow, and invariably quits at around 10% of the file. Never experienced such behaviour before from other sites - hope somebody else will have better luck with these.


----------



## bmoura

analogsurviver said:


> Thank you for sharing the link. I have been struggling to download DSD256 files from _the link within _this link
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/originally-recorded-dsd256-piano-solo-sources-japanese-group-wechseldominate-19942/
> for past few days - without sucess. The download starts, is extremely slow, and invariably quits at around 10% of the file. Never experienced such behaviour before from other sites - hope somebody else will have better luck with these.


 

 Don't feel bad.  I've had problems trying to download the DSD256 files at Wechseldominate in Japan myself. 
  
 Hopefully you'll have better luck with the new DSD256 files on NativeDSD.Com and their Just Listen section!
 https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation


----------



## analogsurviver

bmoura said:


> Don't feel bad.  I've had problems trying to download the DSD256 files at Wechseldominate in Japan myself.
> 
> Hopefully you'll have better luck with the new DSD256 files on NativeDSD.Com and their Just Listen section!
> https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation


 
 Normally, I do not give up easily - but after failures to download over a weekend's time it was a bit of dissapointment. I am eager to hear how much better DSD256
_*sounds *_compared to DSD128. As DSD files, specially DSD256 files are large ( 1 GB = 5.5 minutes of audio ), I will wait with the downloads till the time I have unlimited data transfer from my IP - from midnight to 6 AM . Hopefully, my setup will be able to play them .


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> Sorry for omitting the setup. It is Esprimo Q 9000, Intel i5 CPU  M520 @2.40 GHz    4GB RAM    64bit OS .
> 
> It is extremely nice as it is small ( think 4 DVD cases - a bit shorter and a bit wider, but that really IS it ) _*& QUIET*_, downsize is it can not be expanded/upgraded - no way (I am aware of ) to fit more RAM etc.
> 
> ...


 
 Okay, your CPU system speed is fine and that is not the bottleneck to play DXD or DSD. You should be able to convert PCM to DSD128 in real time just fine with J.River. What version of USB are you using USB 2 or USB 3?  Is your BIOS setting for USB set for Hi-speed? Is the iDSD on its own USB port? Normally you run just one audio playback software because of exclusive mode control setting of windows to the iDSD.  Make sure at this point you are not using DSP Studio in J.River just for the time being. J.River can show what is being send to the iDSD as well.


----------



## analogsurviver

Thank you for the reply, Brother in Arms (Stax Lambda) .
  
 It is USB 2.0 - next Esprimo had 3.0. I will check up the USB setting in BIOS - but would be surprised if I overlooked that one. Normally, I would be using one audio playback software for playback. Nano is on its own USB port from the first moment. I have unchecked LOTS in JRiver, keeping basically only audio - and will keep on till I get only what is needed. DSP is something I try to avoid at all costs - as it means PCM.
  
 Prime interest is in playback of DSD only, mostly DSD128; can JRiver also play DSD256 files ?


----------



## CraftyClown

Hey fellas,
  
 wondering if I could get some help with setting up the nano with Foobar2000?
  
 I'm trying to get DSD to play natively without converting to PCM first, but I seem to be having problems
  
 I've installed the 'foo_dsd_asio ASIO proxy driver' but I don't seem to be getting ASIO options in my output devices
  
 Where might I be going wrong here?
  
 Cheers
  
*EDIT:*
  
 Ok, so I got ASIO working (I'd forgotten to add the ASIO Foobar plugin when I reinstalled)
  
 Is there any way to categorically know the audio is hitting the nano as untouched DSD and not being converted to PCM? The reason I ask is I already had a plugin that would convert DSD and SACDs to PCM, so I'm not 100% which process is occurring?


----------



## CraftyClown

Another couple of quick questions for you chaps;
  
 is there a recommended burn in time for this little baby?
  
 and when using this connected to another amp (mine's connected to the iCAN) does having the volume at 100% guarantee a line level output?
  
*EDIT:*
  
 So to answer my own question, a little research revealed yes, 100% on the volume pot gives a line level


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> Thank you for the reply, Brother in Arms (Stax Lambda) .
> 
> It is USB 2.0 - next Esprimo had 3.0. I will check up the USB setting in BIOS - but would be surprised if I overlooked that one. Normally, I would be using one audio playback software for playback. Nano is on its own USB port from the first moment. I have unchecked LOTS in JRiver, keeping basically only audio - and will keep on till I get only what is needed. DSP is something I try to avoid at all costs - as it means PCM.
> 
> Prime interest is in playback of DSD only, mostly DSD128; can JRiver also play DSD256 files ?


 
 Yes J.River can playback my DSD256 files just fine! My benchmark score is along the lines of yours, meaning it can be done!  However J.River does not have a setting to convert PCM to DSD256 at this time. There will be a far greater number of computers that will lack the HP to do this in real time but off line or batch processing to DSD256 should still be possible. Enjoy!


----------



## bmoura

john57 said:


> Yes J.River can playback my DSD256 files just fine! My benchmark score is along the lines of yours, meaning it can be done!  However J.River does not have a setting to convert PCM to DSD256 at this time. There will be a far greater number of computers that will lack the HP to do this in real time but off line or batch processing to DSD256 should still be possible. Enjoy!


 

 Right.  I'm using JRiver here with Windows 8.1 to playback the free DSD256 Stereo files on the Just Listen section of NativeDSD.Com.  Nice !


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> Yes J.River can playback my DSD256 files just fine! My benchmark score is along the lines of yours, meaning it can be done!  However J.River does not have a setting to convert PCM to DSD256 at this time. There will be a far greater number of computers that will lack the HP to do this in real time but off line or batch processing to DSD256 should still be possible. Enjoy!


 
 How on earth did you arrive at this screen - what I get looks totally different ?
  
 Current standing: it will still not play DSD128 in HQplayer. It will not play DXD in JRiver 19 - only 176/192. It is extremely unstable with foobar - an attempt to search for a spot within a file when playing DSD128 produced LOUD static - and it would no longer play DSD128. Numerous restarts, changing ASIO for DoP and vice versa etc etc still did not resume normal operation. JRiver would not play DSD256, displaying 176.4 kHz format is not supported ? Foobar also does not play DSD256, of course HQPlayer also not. 
  
 Hmmmmm...
  
 As I have rather specific use for DSD DAC, that is to say playing large unedited DSD128 files recorded on Korg MR 1000, it is beginning to dawn on me I would be best served by a Korg DSD DAC which is capable of playing natively DSD64 and DSD128 using Audiogate. Audiogate does support what I miss the most with either nonAudioGate player - markers within DSD file. During recording, I will of course make markers - and they are make or break with my use. Musicians would like to hear a specific "song" or any other particular spot - with markers I can get pretty close to what is required, searching for this on other players with a cursor is next to Mission Impossible. Has anyone tried to play DSD 64 and DSD128 with  AudioGate with non Korg DAC - in native DSD ? Of course AudioGate will convert DSD to PCM (up to 192/24 ) on the fly - but that is not what I am after. Yet of current standing, it is still the only game in (my specific) town.


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> How on earth did you arrive at this screen - what I get looks totally different ?
> 
> http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Path
> 
> ...


----------



## earwaxxer

analogsurviver said:


> How on earth did you arrive at this screen - what I get looks totally different ?
> 
> Current standing: it will still not play DSD128 in HQplayer. It will not play DXD in JRiver 19 - only 176/192. It is extremely unstable with foobar - an attempt to search for a spot within a file when playing DSD128 produced LOUD static - and it would no longer play DSD128. Numerous restarts, changing ASIO for DoP and vice versa etc etc still did not resume normal operation. JRiver would not play DSD256, displaying 176.4 kHz format is not supported ? Foobar also does not play DSD256, of course HQPlayer also not.
> 
> ...


 
 (image missing)Make sure you have the right driver selected from the Audio Device menu.....


----------



## john57

This is what I am using IFI ASIO what does yours say?


----------



## earwaxxer

yep, that looks right...


----------



## bmoura

analogsurviver said:


> Normally, I do not give up easily - but after failures to download over a weekend's time it was a bit of dissapointment. I am eager to hear how much better DSD256
> _*sounds *_compared to DSD128. As DSD files, specially DSD256 files are large ( 1 GB = 5.5 minutes of audio ), I will wait with the downloads till the time I have unlimited data transfer from my IP - from midnight to 6 AM . Hopefully, my setup will be able to play them .


 

 I finally landed the DSD256 files from Japan via the listing iFi had and by using the DownloadThemAll add-in for Firefox.  Very well done - a must have for all Firefox users.
  
 On the other hand, no problems here with the Free DSD256 files from NativeDSD.Com.  Downloaded perfectly on the first try!  
 The two Classical Guitar recordings natively recorded in DSD256 Stereo and 5 Channel are quite good.  Recommended !


----------



## john57

bmoura said:


> I finally landed the DSD256 files from Japan via the listing iFi had and by using the DownloadThemAll add-in for Firefox.  Very well done - a must have for all Firefox users.
> 
> On the other hand, no problems here with the Free DSD256 files from NativeDSD.Com.  Downloaded perfectly on the first try!
> The two Classical Guitar recordings natively recorded in DSD256 Stereo and 5 Channel are quite good.  Recommended !


 
 Have you tried the DSD64 version and compare it to the DSD256?


----------



## Dixter

bmoura said:


> I finally landed the DSD256 files from Japan via the listing iFi had and by using the DownloadThemAll add-in for Firefox.  Very well done - a must have for all Firefox users.
> 
> On the other hand, no problems here with the Free DSD256 files from NativeDSD.Com.  Downloaded perfectly on the first try!
> The two Classical Guitar recordings natively recorded in DSD256 Stereo and 5 Channel are quite good.  Recommended !


 

 some of the best DSD files I have heard...     The dynamic range is great....


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


>


 
 Good suggestions - will test them out tomorrow.  Empirically I found out DSD up to 256 on foobar would "resume" only by:
 - stopping the playback ( it can be loud static, but can also be mute - time and small spectrum analyzer window in Fooobar running as usual...
 - switching the nano iDSD off
 -physically disconecting and reconnecting the USB cable
 -power up nano iDSD - (can also be powered prior to connecting USB for better sonics ) - then native DSD plays normally ( save for some stuttering at the begining and if and when cursor is used ).
  
 Today, I had a bigger fish to fry - two, to be exact. Recording a live concert in the tiniest of chapels imaginable, french horn and organ played by two young ladies.
 There is extremely little repertoire written for this combination, so quite a few were arrangements. All I can say, two extremely courageous "fishes" - one does not hear Krenek performed on regular basis. This is the fifth season running of the festival called *Orgle & *( Organ & ) with 3-4 concerts each year - all the better ones were recorded by yours truly to DSD64 and later DSD128. Here a YT vid made without the public a day after the concert ( sound from camera, not mine ) - the opening picture is worth a thousand words:
  

  

 The above vid - here the sound is from the concert, recorded by me. The sound of the bellows can not be supressed more in so smal chapel. Remember, sound on YT is MP3 - only lately uncompressed uploads were made possible.
  
 There is a place for 2 performers, 30-35 people seated, some 5 or so standing; now usually concerts are held with open door and additional people seating on 
 benches in front of the chapel. As the small festival is held over May and June, there is inevitable _*Cricket*__tando Continuo - _and believe it or not, we grew accustomed to this inexclusable addition of nature - bringing "2 extra degrees of warmth when listening to the recordings in winter time " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## iFi audio

analogsurviver said:


> Good suggestions - will test them out tomorrow.  Empirically I found out DSD up to 256 on foobar would "resume" only by:
> - stopping the playback ( it can be loud static, but can also be mute - time and small spectrum analyzer window in Fooobar running as usual...
> - switching the nano iDSD off
> -physically disconecting and reconnecting the USB cable
> ...




  
 Two words. "Holy" and "Cow."
  
 Your mention of the crickets and continuo reminds us of the "Chasing the Dragon" album by Michael Valentine which has birds tweeting in the background for the outdoor recorded track.
  
 ADC on DSD and DAC on DSD. Neat, very neat.


----------



## Gkat

maybe someone here has already talked about it...
  
 but, what are the different colors that nano dsd must show at the top, everytime it plays each format? (pcm from 96 to 192 and dsd 64-256 etc)
  
 I couldnt find it...I ve made all the latest upgrades in drivers (2.20) and firmware (4.02)
  
 it changes colors when plays different formats, but which (colors) are the correct one, in order to judge if it works ok?


----------



## jexby

LED color:

Green: 44/48kHz
Yellow: 88/96kHz
Cyan: 176/192kHz
White: DXD 352/384kHz
Blue: DSD 2.8/3.1MHz
Magenta: DSD 5.6/6.2MHz
Green (flashing): awaiting USB connection
Red: battery low
None: battery empty
Blue: battery charging


----------



## Gkat

jexby said:


> LED color:
> 
> Green: 44/48kHz
> Yellow: 88/96kHz
> ...


 
 jexby, thank you very much...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 copy paste the list to my pc right now...


----------



## bmoura

john57 said:


> Have you tried the DSD64 version and compare it to the DSD256?


 

 Yes, I prefer the two Classical Guitar Multichannel DSD256 files to the Multichannel DSD64 versions.  Excellent recordings !
 Multichannel definitely adds a you are in the hall/venue quality.


----------



## john57

I do not know if you can play Multichannel DSD thru the iDSD. Found out that will not work.  I do notice that with the Mahler piece which was recorded in DSD64 and converted to DSD256. The DSD256 file for some reason sounds much more cleaner in the highs than the DSD64 and  the hall/venue sound is much more vivid as well.  It seems to be much easier to tell the filler setting apart and now prefer the switch in the up position after the firmware update on the iDSD. I am impressed by the offerings from nativeDSD web site and the recordings engineers like from Channel Classics just know how to record performances on location.


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


>


 
 Thank you for the PM, *john57* .  It really seems I have a problem with the USB - but there it seems I am running out of options/settings - NOTHING in BIOS regarding USB that could be changed ...
  
 Just a correction: *DXD is possible in JRiver 19 . *In DSP Studio one has to select for Input greater than 192,000 Hz  Output minimum of 352.800 Hz.  I simply went to the max, 384.000 Hz - and now can enjoy DXDs as well.
  
 Too early in the day to draw any conclusions in sound of DSD vs DXD - I will ask a friend to blind test me, as sighted and self testing is difficult - even with Foobar ABX, there is a click whenever it switches from DSD to PCM, giving away at least going from one to another and vice versa.
  
 For the life, I still can not get to the screen you posted - also my friend downloaded trial version of JRiver 19 and he said his screen definitely looks different than mine - most probably the same as yours. So, DSD256 still unplayable at the moment.


----------



## CraftyClown

Afternoon fellas,
  
 I'm having an occasional problem that is driving me up the wall an I was wondering if anyone had experienced the same?
  
 Random tracks that are playing via either Foobar2000 or JRiver are sounding ear pulverisingly distorted, to the point I am forced to tear my headphones from my head, in fear I may be deafened 
  
 This is completely random, but I believe (not 100% sure) that it is dsf tracks that trigger it when it does happen. It's hard to troubleshoot as it might only happen 1 in 30 times.
  
 I am wondering what plugins or drivers people have installed for ASIO? As I wonder whether this could be a factor?
  
  
*EDIT:*
  
 Hmmm, Analogsurvivor, I wonder whether I am having a similar problem to the 'loud static' you were describing before?


----------



## john57

On my setup I only use DSP Studio only when I want to convert or resample audio files. I leave the check mark uncheck next to output format.  That way all the audio files will play in their native sample rate. For DSD files the bit streaming option is turn on in the device driver. When I play back the DSD file J.River will then know that my device(iDSD) is able to play back the DSD file natively.  Just think of using DSP Studio to make changes during the playback of the audio files. Since iDSD can playback most audio files under the sun you really do not need DSP Studio enabled to playback of audio files that iDSD do not recognized.  Now days the only reason I use DSP Studio is to convert PCM to DSD. When that happens all the sample rates settings are showing no change, just output encoding is changed. Another reason to use DSP Studio is to convert multi channel files into stereo.


----------



## analogsurviver

craftyclown said:


> Afternoon fellas,
> 
> I'm having an occasional problem that is driving me up the wall an I was wondering if anyone had experienced the same?
> 
> ...


 
 It must be some computer problem - I know too little about to give any qualified opinion, but it can be USB, buffering, etc. Computer guys usually take sound as the last thing important, so get familiar with the software on your machine and learn to set it up right. It is highly unlikely you will get someone willing to watch over ocasional (mis)behaviour of the comp with hirez files - because finding just which little ommision in Windows or whatever is causing the problem and in which combination with which other softwares present on your machine can take days. 
  
It can be that only one player should be installed on one machine. Korg Audiogate V3.0.2 "sees" ASIO driver of JRiver 19 - and most probably vice versa. 
  
That "loud static" is LOUD - think close to or equal to 0 dB. Not something I would be comfortable of using with rare (vintage, next-to-irreplaceable ) speakers .
It is 99.99999 % not the Ifi problem, but user's computer (settings) .


----------



## Gkat

I have a question for you people...
  
 I have the latest version of foobar and made all the upgrades in the drivers of nano dsd (firmware 4.02-windrivers 2.20)
 I run a win7 64bit pc with 8gb ram...
  
 now, I choose from the fbar> preferences > output devices > "foo_dsd_asio"...
 then Asio > asio drivers >and double click on "foo_dsd_asio",  to open a new window with properties...then I make the choises you see at the 2nd photo...then, at tools > sacd and make the choises you see at the 3rd photo

  
 everything ok then...
  
 the first question is why if I choose in the outpout devices the "asio: iFi (by AMR) hd usb audio", instead of the "foo_dsd_asio", foobar starts palying dsd files (I see the bar moving as it plays), but there is no sound at my speakers...I can hear nothing when trying to play dsd files with the "asio:iFi hd usb audio", but it can play all kind of pcm formats I "throw" at it...again, when I choose the "asio:iFI"...is this ok?

  
 now the second question...
  
 when I choose "foo_dsd_asio" and all my choises in "small boxes" when double click on it, are correct (asio drivers - dsd playback method - dsd to dsd method etc), a wierd thing happens, again, when I try to play ONLY dsd files...
  
 I hit the play button in foobar to begin play dsd, and then I see at the bottom right corner of my pc (small speaker icon) that my sound is disabled...
 weird I say, and during playback of the dsd file in foobar, I open  "sound devices" of my pc, searching for my primary sound device I have chosen (that is of course "iFi hd usb audio"), and I can find nothing...it is as if I have uninstall the ifi nano, as my primary sound card...that is the reason why I see the red little icon at the right bottom of my screen....there is no sound card...nothing...but still, I can hear the dsd file playing in the foobar...see pic
  

  
 is this ok?...thats the way nano should operate?
  
 now, when I hit the "stop" button in foobar, everything gets back to normal...the red icon dissapears at the "speaker icon", then at pc and "sound properties" my primary device (iFi) comes back and is "ticked", and everything is ok....I hit again the play button in foobar to star palying dsd, and guess what happens...everything is gone (dissabled sound card etc), but my file is playing just fine and I can hear everything at my active speakers...I hit stop and everything ok....I hit play and....I hit stop and.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

 the above situation happens ONLY, if I choose to play dsd files under "foo_dsd_asio"...when I choose to play pcm files, flacs etc, everything is normal under the same conditions...
  
 to sum up, I choose a dsd file to play and my sound card is dissabled as I mentioned above...still I can hear sound...then I hit stop at foobar, and without change anything, I choose to play a pcm file, flac etc...again, I can hear just fine the pcm file playing and nothing at the above happens...my sound card isnt;t dissabled, when I search in "sound devices" of my pc, I can find my "primary audio device" (iFi), etc etc...
  
 why is this happening?...its normal nano to operate like that?...or my pc to operate like that, again, only when playing dsd files and eveything to stay unchanged, when playing every other audio file?..is it something in the foobar setup?
  
 sorry for the long post


----------



## Turrican2

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote: 





gkat said:


> I have a question for you people...
> 
> I have the latest version of foobar and made all the upgrades in the drivers of nano dsd (firmware 4.02-windrivers 2.20)
> I run a win7 64bit pc with 8gb ram...
> ...








> Try changing the DSD Playback method


----------



## analogsurviver

turrican2 said:


>


 
 Changing ASI for DoP or vice versa may work to bring sound back. 
  
 Try the same method I described above : when DSD file seems to run oK but with no sound,  stop the playback, power down nano iDSD, phisically remove and re-insert the USB connectin, power nano iDSD back up. If after this procedure and no other changes made sound returns to normal, we share the same problem. 
 Still searching for the solution.


----------



## john57

The foo_dsd_asio plugin is to make foobar "aware"  and able to use any asio driver that may be available to the system. In your case the foo_dsd_asio plugin sees the IFI asio driver under its options and allows foobar to use the IFI asio driver. That's why you need those two things in order for foobar to be able to use any sound system asio driver.
  
 When the  asio driver is active the windows "direct sound" audio system is disabled and bypassed by the asio driver. That why you see the speaker icon turned red with a x. When you finished using the asio driver, control is given back to windows audio system and the speaker icon is active again.  You can use the direct sound driver setting in J.River for the iDSD if you like.


----------



## Gkat

I will try it Turrican2, to see if anything happens...
  
analogsurviver, you mean that maybe dac is having an internal "bottleneck" or it "stucks"?...
 it does this to you when playing under "foo_dsd_asio", or with "asio iFi"?..and as you say, this happens to you also, only when playing dsd files
 hope there is no hardware problem with my dac...if I have to plug and unplug everytime, to make my dac work ok, then we have problem...
  
john57, your explanation make sense...so, there is nothing I can do...its simply  a "method" foobar uses in order to be able to use the proper driver in each situation...
 "foo_dsd_asio", is the only way for different drivers to cooparate..and that is why if I change to "asio: iFi", foobar simply cant;t find the "intermediate", in our case in foobar, "foo_dsd_asio", and thats why it cant apply the proper driver I have chosen
  
 Am I correct?....I like foobar and I will keep on playing with it...so this "change" when playing dsd files can;t be avoided and I needn't worry about it, or....?..and dac works ok and will keep on working ok, huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...any recommendations in generall?
  
 thank you all for your help....


----------



## john57

For more info on ASIO with Foobar here is another similar procedure using a different DSD DAC
  
 http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/61/Configuring-Foobar2000-for-ASIO-DSD-DXD-Playback-with-exaSound-DACs.aspx
  
 I use J.River most of the time for audio playback.


----------



## Gkat

john57 said:


> For more info on ASIO with Foobar here is another similar procedure using a different DSD DAC
> 
> http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/61/Configuring-Foobar2000-for-ASIO-DSD-DXD-Playback-with-exaSound-DACs.aspx
> 
> I use J.River most of the time for audio playback.


 
 ok...thank you for the reply


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> For more info on ASIO with Foobar here is another similar procedure using a different DSD DAC
> 
> http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/61/Configuring-Foobar2000-for-ASIO-DSD-DXD-Playback-with-exaSound-DACs.aspx
> 
> I use J.River most of the time for audio playback.


 
 I have used the following two foobar setup procedures ( first is the same as in your post )
  
 http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/61/Configuring-Foobar2000-for-ASIO-DSD-DXD-Playback-with-exaSound-DACs.aspx
  
http://www.auralic.com/download/dsd_playback_setup.pdf
  
 They differ only in the device ASIO - for ifi nano iDSD, of course its ASIO .
  
 Please note the auralic setup is a bit dated for latest versions of JRiver and HQPlayer - but principle remains the same.
  
 I wish I could dedicate more time to the comparisons of various DSD players over nano iDSD - and particularly against playing the same DSD files directly from the Korg MR1000 recorder.


----------



## Gkat

maybe I will download jriver, just to see the differences in setup...whether its easier than foobar, to setup the player correctly...
  
 I never did any comparisons between palyers, but from I am reading, maybe there are lot of differences, that affect the outcome...
  
 we will see...


----------



## analogsurviver

Which colour LED should be displayed while reproducing DSD256 ?


----------



## john57

Magenta same as for DSD128


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> Magenta same as for DSD128


 
 Thank you for the quick answer. I am at the friend at the moment, trying the nano with his incomparable more powerful PC. Where is the command to play DSD natively in Jriver 19 WITHOUT DSP Studio - for the life, I can not find it. I did manage to get DXD though.
  
 Thank you for making me, as a non native english speakerr, google up *hogged up *meaning -
  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hogged%20up
  
 LMAO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !
  
 Unhogging up in the process - please keep fingrers crossed!


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> Thank you for the quick answer. I am at the friend at the moment, trying the nano with his incomparable more powerful PC. Where is the command to play DSD natively in Jriver 19 WITHOUT DSP Studio - for the life, I can not find it. I did manage to get DXD though.
> 
> Thank you for making me, as a non native english speakerr, google up *hogged up *meaning -
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hogged%20up
> ...


 
 Form my picture in post #594
  


 Notice that the Bitstreaming is Yes and set for DSD. This tells J.River when it encounter a DSD file is to sent it directly to the DAC without any audio processing. You would have to use the iDSD to control volume as needed.  You can still control volume and playback on  PCM  files with J.River normally.   Bitstreaming=bit perfect


----------



## Dixter

john57 said:


> Form my picture in post #594
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that the Bitstreaming is Yes and set for DSD. This tells J.River when it encounter a DSD file is to sent it directly to the DAC without any audio processing. You would have to use the iDSD to control volume as needed.  You can still control volume and playback on  PCM  files with J.River normally.   Bitstreaming=bit perfect


 
 There is also an area that is very important to be setup correctly and its a little hidden....    I'll do my best to describe the setting without the pictures...   when you get the screen up like the picture John has supplied...
 1) Click on the " Device settings... " just under the " ifi (by AMR).... "
 2) On the next screen at the top right you will see " Buffering"  I selected " 500 milliseconds "  click " use large hardware buffers"
 3) On the same screen at the bottom right " TOOLS"   there click on " Open Driver Control Panel... "
 4)On the next screen,  Under Status - you should see " ifi (by AMR)...usb" sample rate 384000 hz"
 5) Under Buffer Settings- you should see " extra safe "  Buffer Size " 8192 samples"
 6) Under Info - you should see revision " v4.02"   if not update the firmware/driver...
  
 these settings are maxed out and should work...   they work on my computer fine and my score is way lower than what you guys are seeing....


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> Form my picture in post #594
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that the Bitstreaming is Yes and set for DSD. This tells J.River when it encounter a DSD file is to sent it directly to the DAC without any audio processing. You would have to use the iDSD to control volume as needed.  You can still control volume and playback on  PCM  files with J.River normally.   Bitstreaming=bit perfect


 
 When trying to play DSD256 )the last file on the screen = I get the following message-


----------



## earwaxxer

For those on the fence about getting JRiver, there is a very cool $9 app for the iPhone/android called JRemote that lets you use your phone as a remote. Game changer for me. I use it all the time, and its WiFi so you can control the music anywhere in the house etc.


----------



## CraftyClown

earwaxxer said:


> For those on the fence about getting JRiver, there is a very cool $9 app for the iPhone/android called JRemote that lets you use your phone as a remote. Game changer for me. I use it all the time, and its WiFi so you can control the music anywhere in the house etc.


 
  
  
 Just to add a bit of parity, there is an app called Foobar con that does the same for Foobar. I actually prefer it as it gives you more control than Gizmo the Jriver controler.


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> When trying to play DSD256 )the last file on the screen = I get the following message-


 
 Since I was able play the DSD256 without problems, I then tried to find ways to break it and found out what your problem is.
 You need to uncheck DSD bitstream using DoP under Device settings(see last image I posted). You do not need DoP when using firmware version 4 or greater with the ASIO driver.


----------



## john57

craftyclown said:


> Just to add a bit of parity, there is an app called Foobar con that does the same for Foobar. I actually prefer it as it gives you more control than Gizmo the Jriver controler.


 
 Yes J.River will do more work in this area since they just hired a programer for this. Gizomo is fine for my needs.
  
 http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89065.0


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> Since I was able play the DSD256 without problems, I then tried to find ways to break it and found out what your problem is.
> You need to uncheck DSD bitstream using DoP under Device settings(see last image I posted). You do not need DoP when using firmware version 4 or greater with the ASIO driver.


 
 Thank you for the reply.
  
 The real problem was that PC had to be de-hogged up. Registry clean/repair - after the PC started (again) working like it should have, I quickly came to the same
 solution as you posted. Prior to registry fix, it did not matter in the slightest - it just would not work. 
  
 Now there are no more problems with cursor - no stuttering, whenever and wherfever I "click". I maxed out on buffering whenever possible, both in Jriver and foobar.
  
 How loud is the transient when changing from PCM to DSD files and vice versa ? I get two ticks of unobjectionable loudness, but they give away at least change from DSd to PCM or vice versa - making blind comparison between files in different resolutions a bit difficult/impossible, even using foobar2000 ABX comparator.
  
 JRiver 19 is quite a dominant software - whenever I select it, Korg AudioGate 3.0.2 (latest version old as of this writing 12 days) will thereafter display "No Device" - and appropriate ASIO driver for nano iDSD has to be selected from the list of options - in my case, ifi (by AMR) HD USB Audio, foo_dsd_asio and JRiver Media Center 19 in order to restore normal playback. Any version of Audiogate 2 is unaffected, as it does not require/use ASIO.
  
 Now with nano iDSD is properly supported, I will finally be able to make some comparisons. AFTER I get some proper sleep ...


----------



## john57

Any good audio program using ASIO should have exclusive and priority control to maximize SQ. Yes it does make comparisons harder.  You have have some Exclusive mode control options under  Speaker properties advanced tab in Windows. That mostly used for the standard Direct sound drivers. Yes it is normal to hear some clicking when switching between PCM and DSD. I had that issue before and I got rid of the clicking by system tuning and changing the buffer type and size in my case. Others will not have that issue at all. The tagging info in the beginning of the file needs to be ignored for playback.  One of the many things you can do is to control the amount of start-up entries in the startup folder. I use a program called CCleaner and it is one of the safest registry cleaner on the market. Others can make a mess of the registry big time. The free version of CCleaner is fine and under tools is the option to control the startup entries. I just diable the ones that other problems put in there that I do not need to know.  For advance users, autoruns is another but only for well experienced advance users. Take care and get the rest and hope that things will work better for you.


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> Any good audio program using ASIO should have exclusive and priority control to maximize SQ. Yes it does make comparisons harder.  You have have some Exclusive mode control options under  Speaker properties advanced tab in Windows. That mostly used for the standard Direct sound drivers. Yes it is normal to hear some clicking when switching between PCM and DSD. I had that issue before and I got rid of the clicking by system tuning and changing the buffer type and size in my case. Others will not have that issue at all. The tagging info in the beginning of the file needs to be ignored for playback.  One of the many things you can do is to control the amount of start-up entries in the startup folder. I use a program called CCleaner and it is one of the safest registry cleaner on the market. Others can make a mess of the registry big time. The free version of CCleaner is fine and under tools is the option to control the startup entries. I just diable the ones that other problems put in there that I do not need to know.  For advance users, autoruns is another but only for well experienced advance users. Take care and get the rest and hope that things will work better for you.


 
 Thanks - will look up for the options/suggestions after I famialarize myself with my PC - again. 02:30 here, and right now I am no longer able to see anything smaller than a Jumbo Jet...


----------



## KmanChu

earwaxxer said:


> For those on the fence about getting JRiver, there is a very cool $9 app for the iPhone/android called JRemote that lets you use your phone as a remote. Game changer for me. I use it all the time, and its WiFi so you can control the music anywhere in the house etc.


 
 It's pretty sweet. You can also stream from your server to your phone. Pretty neat for when walking around the house doing chores.


----------



## maricius

Has anyone tried pairing the iDSD Nano to an portable external amp, more specifically, the Cypher Labs Duet? I'm quite curious with the pairing. If so, may I ask for your impressions? Thank you in advance.
  
 I'm hoping the iDSD Nano/Duet combo or maybe even the standard CLAS/Duet combo would be at least comparable to the soon to be released iDSD Micro. If not, I guess I'm selling my Duet to fund for the Micro. I honestly believe the DAC section of the CLAS -dB to be slowly becoming outdated even in terms of pure PCM performance. This may not be the place to mention this but I really believe the price of the CLAS comes from the Apple licensing, balanced output, and coaxial output. Oh yeah, the CLAS -dB is now retailing for a $100 less at $599, probably to keep it competitive.


----------



## john57

From reading the specs on the Cypher Labs Duet, the iDSD micro is going to have much more power available to the headphones. The balanced outs on the Cypher Labs Duet has the same power as the single ended outs telling me not really the full benefit of the balanced connection. In my opinion the micro iDSD is going to have much more capabilities than the CLAS/Duet combined. Check the threads here on the micro iDSD coming out in a month or so.


----------



## koolas

Last Friday me and my colleague at work, we have auditioned iDSD playing PCM and DSD tracks.

We downloaded from http://www.2l.no/hires/ 

"Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky: SOUVENIR de Florence op. 70: I. Allegro con spirito" 

in these three formats:

Stereo, DXD, 24BIT/352.8kHz

Stereo, FLAC, 24BIT/96kHz

Stereo DFF, DSD 128, 5.6448Mbit/s

The chain we used was:

Foobar2k --> iDSD --> Pan Am (Sylvania) --> Alpha Dog

First we tested native playback capabilities of iDSD, i.e. DSD track was played back using foo_output_dsd plugin, and DXD/PCM tracks using PCM ASIO output and LED on iDSD confirmed DXD, 96/24 and DSD was being played respectively.

My colleague said that the difference between DSD track and the two other was obvious for him. He also said that he didn't hear any difference between the two PCM formats 96/24 and DXD. Generally he says violin in DSD sounds like violin, while in PCM it sounds crap.

In next test I have turned on foo_output_dsd capability to convert any PCM to DSD128 on the fly, and indeed iDSD LED indicated DSD128 format being played. So we played again DSD file and then both PCM. This time my colleague says that he doesn't hear any difference between any of the three files being played. I tried my-self, and indeed I couldn't hear any difference.

Note that according to http://www.2l.no/hires/ original file was recorded in DXD, and both DSD and 96/24 files were created by converter tool.

Our conclusion

Me and my colleague we think iDSD plays DSD input very nice, and significantly better then PCM input. We think it is not the file format that limits the quality, but the DAC it-self, as 96/24 file converted on-the-fly to DSD sounded exactly the same as original DSD file. Also we see that iDSD doesn't handle DXD data as good as DSD data. Thus conclusion is that iFi iDSD would be better device if it always used DSD (SDM) part of the DAC, and always bypass multibit DAC stage. That would require that iDSD converted any PCM to DSD on the fly in same way as Foobar2k does this.


----------



## koolas

BTW, before you say test was biased I must note that for my colleague it was pretty blind test, as he wasn't saying that DSD track sounds better than that PCM track. In Foobar2k he saw all three tracks with exactly same title, and he didn't know which one is which, so he just said this one sounds better, and these two sound the same for him.


----------



## iFi audio

koolas said:


> BTW, before you say test was biased I must note that for my colleague it was pretty blind test, as he wasn't saying that DSD track sounds better than that PCM track. In Foobar2k he saw all three tracks with exactly same title, and he didn't know which one is which, so he just said this one sounds better, and these two sound the same for him.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 A bit of background information may shed more light.
  
 2L are starting out recording in Multibit Delta Sigma (6 Bit at 5.644MHz), so they are closer to DSD in nature than actual PCM. It is a hybrid format.
  
 The original digital recording is then converted to either PCM (DXD) or to Single Bit (DSD).
  
 Best find a handful of PCM and DSD recordings (we mean original recorded in these formats) otherwise you dont have native recording > native playback. This is the name of the game, to keep the file original throughout, not just on the playback portion as you rightly planned out.
  
 So we recommend that you try a native PCM recording such as:
 176.4K PCM File e.g. from Reference recordings - TCHAIKOVSKY: Mazeppa: Hopak (and for fun you can try upsampling to DSD too).
 and
  
 Native DSD recording:
 Quad-Speed DSD256 recording from Dorm Nantes of Japan
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/quad-speed-dsd256-works-by-ve-kuseru-dorm-nantes-of-japan/
  
 Try these two and of course playback by natively through your Computer Audio software.
  
 It is tricky as it not easy to find out what file was originally done in what and then converted before we are able to download for listening.
  
 Hope this assists.


----------



## HeadStrong

Has anyone used the iDSD Nano with NuForce's Primo 8 IEMs?


----------



## pokenguyen

Does iFi Nano iDSD fix "hiss" problem with sensitive IEMs yet? Or what workaround I have to use?


----------



## Roscoeiii

They have a fixed dB attenuator coming, but not sure if it is out.


----------



## pokenguyen

roscoeiii said:


> They have a fixed dB attenuator coming, but not sure if it is out.


 
 Thank you for your information.
  
 @iFi: I'm going to buy iFi Nano iDSD mainly for my IEMs through Amazon:
 http://www.amazon.com/iFi-Headphone-384kHz-iPhone-Android/dp/B00HI8WXVG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403492188&sr=8-1&keywords=iFi+Nano+iDSD
  
 Will I get a fixed dB attenuator? And do I have to upgrade firmware with this batch of products?


----------



## Roscoeiii

No, to the best of my knowledge it is not included. But I should also mention that my IEMs are very sensitive. Shure 846.


----------



## jexby

roscoeiii said:


> They have a fixed dB attenuator coming, but not sure if it is out.




The external cable IEMatch attenuators are out, work great with my nano iDSD and Heir Audio 4.AiS, UM3X and NAD HP50.
Allow volume knob to go to 12 and beyond safely.


----------



## pokenguyen

Where should I get IEMatch attenuator? Is it included?


----------



## jexby

They are sold separately, and you should email an official iFi reseller.


----------



## eyal1983

deleted


----------



## pokenguyen

jexby said:


> They are sold separately, and you should email an official iFi reseller.


 
 I contacted iFi and Avatar Acoustics, still no response how to get both...


----------



## iFi audio

pokenguyen said:


> I contacted iFi and Avatar Acoustics, still no response how to get both...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Best you pm us as we clear our emails on a daily basis!
  
 So your email may not have made it through to us.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## analogsurviver

Hi, I have trouble in configuring ifi nano iDSD in foobar2000 so that also in ABX comparator it would play natively DSD.
  
 When I play the files normally, it will do DSD256, under ABX comparator it switches DSD playback to 176/192/24 - making direct blind testing of say redbook CD WAV 44.1/16 to DSD impossible. I tried as I might to listen blind. and after I got consistently WRONG results, did allow to see which colour LED is glowing - and discovered the above.
  
 Any ideas ?


----------



## koolas

I haven't tried iDSD with latest firmware yet (should I try? ...or be afraid of doing so...) Anyways, I know that iDSD (at least mine) does not switch smooth between DSD and PCM under Foobar2k with foo_output_dsd. I don't know exact scenario, but I know that when I double click on PCM record and then on DSD and the on PCM, iDSD sometimes goes crazy, and I have to switch it off and unplug USB cable.

So, from this experience I think ABX comparator may not work good with iDSD, as it probably wants to switch between PCM and DSD at random times.


----------



## analogsurviver

You should try the nano with the latest firmware - it includes playback of DSD256 files. Something totally unheard of in this price range IIRC. The true DSD256 (and not upconverted ) recordings are still extremely rare and including of DSD256 playback capability is like something of putting the cart before the horse - as of present, the only commercially available DSD256 recorder is
 Merging Horus http://www.merging.com/products/horus Clicking on this link made my day - as I just discovered
 the little son of Horus, the Hapi http://www.merging.com/products/hapi This appears to be a trickle-down  "improved" model of (hopefully) lower price, the prime advantage over Horus is its capability to be powered from all kinds of power supplies, including the use of pure DC supply - the battery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 You are experiencing similar troubles I had with the nano - prior to "un-hogging" the computor ( registry clean up, some DLL repair, etc, etc, something my computer guru had to take care of ). The nano now works with regular DSD and PCM playback and switching from one to another and vice versa just fine, with the exception this transition is accompanied by some low volume "clicks and noise" that last around one second overall; they are not silent and at least give away there is switching from DSD to PCM or vice versa going on.
  
 Under ABX comparator, nano can get crazy. Besides losing native DSD capability, which is more likely a foobar2000 limitation/problem,  switching from playing back a DSD and DXD file can result in music being accompanied by horrific mainly high frequency noise - VERY loud, close to 0 dBFS. It was not a pleasent surprise when ABing the same track in DSD and DXD using IEMs ...
 I expect this to be a problem of the limited capabilities of my PC - only 4GB of RAM and processor at 2.33 MHz.
 Stopping the playback restores the normal operation in my case, no disconnection of the USB connection required. 
 As always with computers, YMMV.


----------



## earwaxxer

I have tried some DSD content via some free sample downloads etc. I'm not a classical fan so the whole DSD thing is kind of mute.
  
 Its hard to evaluate how 'good ' the DSD sounds for me because I cant evaluate the music that I'm not familiar with. It sounds 'good' to me but not better than a good HDCD of music that I like, that was ripped to 24 bit using dbpoweramp etc. Again in terms of content its apples and oranges.
  
 I havent bought any of the rock DSD content available yet (ripped from SACD). That would be a better test, but I cant justify spending $30 a pop for music I already have, although buying the Zep remasters in 24/96 is tempting. I think the jury is still out on those...


----------



## koolas

I have noticed the biggest difference in the way violin sounds. In the PCM mode they sounded constrained by some plastic cage, while in DSD mode they sounded unconstrained and very clean. It didn't really matter if source material was DSD or PCM converted on the fly to DSD, I heard no difference what so ever. I also couldn't hear any difference between 96kHz and 352kHz PCM - they both sounded to me the same. The difference was only audible between iDSD being physically in PCM mode or DSD mode. In this tests I used Alpha Dogs powered by Pan Am. These two actually couple very nice with iDSD.


----------



## maricius

koolas said:


> I have noticed the biggest difference in the way violin sounds. In the PCM mode they sounded constrained by some plastic cage, while in DSD mode they sounded unconstrained and very clean. It didn't really matter if source material was DSD or PCM converted on the fly to DSD, I heard no difference what so ever. I also couldn't hear any difference between 96kHz and 352kHz PCM - they both sounded to me the same. The difference was only audible between iDSD being physically in PCM mode or DSD mode. In this tests I used Alpha Dogs powered by Pan Am. These two actually couple very nice with iDSD.


 
  
 How would you compare the onboard DAC of the Pan Am to the iDSD Nano's


----------



## koolas

I would say iDSD sounds significantly cleaner, more precise, more detailed. But still if I were to arrange how I rate sound quality between devices I have (or had) this is the way I would do it:

Xperia X8 mini < iPhone 4 < Moto G < K850i ~ N900 < Lenovo Y580 < Xonar DG ~ Pan Am < iDSD < NAD T744

I asked NAD guys about the DAC, and they said it's Cirrus Logic 96kHz/24bit, though I don't know which exact chip (I would have to open up the chasis). I can guess it probably is a codec like this one: http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4244.html. Anyways I rate the SQ as more human-ear-friendly than iDSD. The iDSD sounds better (to me) only when in true DSD mode.


----------



## earwaxxer

Dont mean to be a fly in the ointment to the resident experts on this site, but I have, yet again, confirmed the superior sound of redbook upsampled to 2xDSD vs playing native. I can qualify the difference, although very subtle yet very noticeable with very good recordings (Dire Straits) when I sit right in front of the speaker. Native 16/44.1 has a bit of a digital nature that is somewhat irritating, and less real (sort of a digital hash). There is a 'smoothness' to the upsampled sound. As others have said this may have to do with the way the iDSD Nano processes DSD vs. PCM. I also tried upsampling the PCM to 384khz with no real difference from the native 44.1.
  
 Looking forward to the reviews on the new Micro when it comes out!


----------



## koolas

earwaxxer said:


> Dont mean to be a fly in the ointment to the resident experts on this site, but I have, yet again, confirmed the superior sound of redbook upsampled to 2xDSD vs playing native. I can qualify the difference, although very subtle yet very noticeable with very good recordings (Dire Straits) when I sit right in front of the speaker. Native 16/44.1 has a bit of a digital nature that is somewhat irritating, and less real (sort of a digital hash). *There is a 'smoothness' to the upsampled sound*. As others have said this may have to do with the way the iDSD Nano processes DSD vs. PCM. I also tried upsampling the PCM to 384khz with no real difference from the native 44.1.
> 
> Looking forward to the reviews on the new Micro when it comes out!




This is exactly what I experience, just didn't know how to name it  I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels iDSD plays best DSD


----------



## michilumin

So, I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this...Yes, I'm new here (to posting at least, but not really to reading) - but really, I hope I'm soundly somehow proven wrong.
  
 I just got my iFi Audio Nano iDSD, and I've had like.. less than a day to play with it so far, but something is bothering me.
  
 This device claims to be able to do DSD128 and PCM 32/384 and DXD.  And with the newer firmware, DSD256.
 That's all really really awesome... if that's what it could do.
  
 See, it's become clear that the iFi Audio Nano iDSD uses a DSD1793 DAC chip. While that's not a horrible chip by any means, it sure as heck can't do what iFi/AMR is claming it can do. So what's going on here?
  
 The DSD1793 can do DSD64, and PCM 24/192, and sorry -- that's all she wrote.  (Okay, okay; PCM 24/200, but who's counting.)
  
 This is in front of everyone here. Disassembly shots of the iDSD Nano are available, and the datasheet for the DSD1793 is available.
 So are we all operating on some level of collective cognitive dissonance, or am I missing something here?
  
 Is iFi/AMR somehow "overclocking the dac" (and "overwording it")?  Unlikely. Really unlikely.
 I'd say more likely, that this dac is outputting DSD64/2.8mhz and PCM 24/192, no matter what it's being fed. 
  
 I'm guessing with these higher signal rates, a LOT of data is either being thrown away in the driver, or by something going on in the XMOS USB chip.
 I'm really surprised this hasn't been talked about or addressed.
  
 And yeah, I expect flames after this, but, "so be it" - the DSD1793 can *not do* DSD128, DSD256, DXD, or PCM 32-bit (of any sort) or PCM 352 or 384 khz (of any sort.)
 So, i'ts *got to* be truncating or downconverting.
  
 I'm not saying it's doing a bad job at it, but this is starting to remind me of the old modem days when "57600 BPS!" was advertised; when that was just the data input rate, (or serial port rate), but the actual connection rate was much, much slower.
  
 I hope this isn't the trend we're going down with DACs. But, for $189, I figured, "DSD128 and DSD256?? For that price?? Too good to be true."
  
 Unfortunately, it looks like it is. I'm *NOT* here to troll.  If you guys can ring my bell on this and set me straight, by all means, do so. I'll happily and enthusiastically be proven wrong. I really, really, REALLY want to like this DAC.
  
 But if AMR is telling tall tales, it's gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth...


----------



## ClieOS

michilumin said:


> See, it's become clear that the iFi Audio Nano iDSD uses a DSD1793 DAC chip. While that's not a horrible chip by any means, it sure as heck can't do what iFi/AMR is claming it can do. So what's going on here?
> 
> ... But if AMR is telling tall tales, it's gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth...


 
  
 I'll leave the detail to iFi Audio to answer, if they are willing to go into the detail that is, since these are more or less their trade secret for now and they probably don't want others to copy what they have done. Hence why they are being a bit cryptic on this discussion.
  
 I asked them the same question awhile back, and the answer is yes, the DSD1793 can't do DSD128, DSD256, DXD, etc _if you use the default configuration that TI tells you to use_. But deep inside the silicone, the chip itself is actually capable of native decoding for those formats. The way iFi is able to explore the DSD1793's full potential is by employing a customized XMOS implementation that allows the DAC to do those native decoding function that are otherwise hidden by TI.


----------



## analogsurviver

michilumin said:


> So, I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this...Yes, I'm new here (to posting at least, but not really to reading) - but really, I hope I'm soundly somehow proven wrong.
> 
> I just got my iFi Audio Nano iDSD, and I've had like.. less than a day to play with it so far, but something is bothering me.
> 
> ...


 
 Ifi has obviously tested the DSD1793, along probably pretty much any other chip, for what it can do on paper - and beyond. They must have found out some way to squeeze out the DSD256 out of DSD1793; they did say they used some features not mentioned by Burr Brown/Ti in their data sheet.
  
 Now it would be interesting to see to how much of this will be made public - provided it really can do DSD256 in the first place. Foobar2000 with nano clearly recognizes DSD256 as such. JRiver 19 does not indicate what is it playing directly; only kbps is displayed. For DSD128 it is 11289 kbps, for DSD256 it is 22579 kbps - which is exactly the same kbps for the DXD352.8 kHz .


----------



## ostewart

clieos said:


> I'll leave the detail to iFi Audio to answer, if they are willing to go into the detail that is, since these are more or less their trade secret for now and they probably don't want others to copy what they have done. Hence why they are being a bit cryptic on this discussion.
> 
> I asked them the same question awhile back, and the answer is yes, the DSD1793 can't do DSD128, DSD256, DXD, etc _if you use the default configuration that TI tells you to use_. But deep inside the silicone, the chip itself is actually capable of native decoding for those formats. The way iFi is able to explore the DSD1793's full potential is by employing a customized XMOS implementation that allows the DAC to do those native decoding function that are otherwise hidden by TI.


 
  
 Great answer ClieOS, after having good contact with iFi for a while, it is true what you say. And they write all their own code for the XMOS chip and driver, so in there they can squeeze out more than the tech sheet states. They don't have the DAC in it's default configuration so they do decode natively.


----------



## analogsurviver

ostewart said:


> Great answer ClieOS, after having good contact with iFi for a while, it is true what you say. And they write all their own code for the XMOS chip and driver, so in there they can squeeze out more than the tech sheet states. They don't have the DAC in it's default configuration so they do decode natively.


 
 Similar practice is used in lots of electronics - and while looking a bit deeper, one can find that basic unit and top of the line from the same manufacturer basically has the same chipset - only many features on lower priced models are simply disabled. Thus it is easy to "cover" the entire range with basically one single design.


----------



## ostewart

Great way of putting it


----------



## earwaxxer

I agree with the above - Its about the sound. - We tend to be paranoid about being 'ripped off', some of that is justified, and some is not. If you want to talk about snake oil in audio, I would look at the $5K+ kit thats out there. I would argue that most of that high priced audio jewelery is a 'rip off'.


----------



## KmanChu

earwaxxer said:


> I agree with the above - Its about the sound. - We tend to be paranoid about being 'ripped off', some of that is justified, and some is not. If you want to talk about snake oil in audio, I would look at the $5K+ kit thats out there. I would argue that most of that high priced audio jewelery is a 'rip off'.


 
 Absolutely, and at those much higher prices the front end electronics tend to be more different than better. Measurements go by the wayside for what becomes "involving" and the sound we like vs what is arguably technically better or worse (e.g. anything with vacuum tubes, which I love BTW.)


----------



## michilumin

I've had it for about a day. So there's going to be some time involved in critical listening and comparing it to say, the Schiit Loki (which we know is DSD64 only) and some ESS Sabre driven stuff.
  
 I also fully agree on the $5k+ snake oil "noise".  Diminishing returns fade well before that level.  It'd be nice if the level of legitimate returns was $189.
  
 As for an expertise pissing-contest, I'd rather not. But if you really want to, I will. Suffice it to say that no, this is not my first rodeo, and if you _must_ have credentials, PM me, but in my recent correspondence with iFi, yeah, they have that. I work in DSD recording exclusively, meaning the _*ADC*_ side of things, and I have an interest in these rates reaching their full potential. So I'm hoping, really, for the availability of DACs that can do DSD128 and DSD256 to take advantage of what we're recording.
  
 I just want to know if this DAC is actually doing what it says, because otherwise, it's _not_ a "complete" exhibition of what DSD128, DSD256 and DXD can do. And no, for $189, I wouldn't expect it to be, but hope springs eternal.
  
 Yes I expected these sychophantic "Who cares if it can do what's advertised or not, how does it sound?" responses. But it does matter, again, as yes, there are supposed to be advantages in the higher rates (pushing the noise ramp further from the audible band, for example.)
  
 Which is odd, when people tend to get up in arms if they find out their DSD DAC "converts to PCM internally".
  
 So far what everyone is saying is "Well, magic."  - No. DAC chips are REALLY simple creatures.
 They either take the data given to them, or they don't.
 With some exceptions, but I have yet to see iFi's explanation on that. (If I'm missing it, or didn't see it, please, point it out.)
  
 I agree that it's *possible* that the DSD1793 (which is actually the same silicon as the DSD1791 that was used in a lot of lower-end SACD players in the early to mid 2000s) may be able to be, ostensibly, overclocked. 200kHz is not THAT far off from 384kHz; it is _possible._  32 bits, well, I'm not sure how they'd be doing that. I'd be interested to know how they are without truncation, and maybe the answer is "dither" in the XMOS chip. Fair enough.
  
 So, while there's a lot of flag waving here about "I don't care what goes on in the black box" and some "Does it matter? Trust your ears." of the likes of Bedini Clarifiers and Auric Illuminator gels, and a little bit of "I want to believe" (believe me, I want to, too) - really the only thing to conclude here is that iFi has the XMOS chip downsampling or truncating. *And yes, that means we may not be getting the full potential of DSD128 or DSD256, DXD, etc. *
  
 If everyone's OK with that, then why not just downsample in software, where arguably a CPU can do it with a lot more accuracy than the rather anemic XMOS chip.
  
 True believers, yeah, not going to change your minds.  And I actually really like how the iFi Micro is shaping up, (though, same chip in question when their non-DSD dac uses the ESS Sabre chipset.)
  
 But, "How does it sound?" - Well, I don't know, _I can't tell what I'm *NOT* hearing_, so, if this was *REALLY* doing DSD128 or DSD256, then maybe it would sound better than it does.
  
 There is the idea of, well, it could indeed be running at DSD64 or PCM 24/192, and that's "good enough" for the data that's being resampled/dithered (hopefully) or truncated (hopefully not) at the XMOS chip.
  
 In which case, we have a $189 really-good DSD64 / PCM 24/192 dac that can accept higher input rates. Cool. No sweat.
 But I don't know why people get so defensive about just trying to find out.


----------



## boxinghris

Yes, it is 'odd' when judging a product by its sonic performance is viewed as sycophantic, very odd indeed.

We should all skip the listening tests in reviews and jump to the bench tests, where objective results will dictate how much we 'like' a product, and if that product is worth buying.

How the objective specifications relate to the subjective performance is irrelevant, although in the case of the iFi DAC it is not such a clear cut objectivist v subjectivist debate, as the objective performance is, I believe, as stated in the literature, and you may yet be able to 'like' your DAC and revel in both it's sonic and processing prowess...


----------



## michilumin

analogsurviver said:


> Ifi has obviously tested the DSD1793, along probably pretty much any other chip, for what it can do on paper - and beyond. They must have found out some way to squeeze out the DSD256 out of DSD1793; they did say they used some features not mentioned by Burr Brown/Ti in their data sheet.
> 
> Now it would be interesting to see to how much of this will be made public - provided it really can do DSD256 in the first place. Foobar2000 with nano clearly recognizes DSD256 as such. JRiver 19 does not indicate what is it playing directly; only kbps is displayed. For DSD128 it is 11289 kbps, for DSD256 it is 22579 kbps - which is exactly the same kbps for the DXD352.8 kHz .


 
  
 Gotcha. Yes. I understand that. The XMOS chip does take these data rates and, what it does after that, nobody's sure of.  The "very high end" (YMMV) PS Audio Direct Stream DAC uses the same XMOS chip, and actually converts to *extreme* rate PCM in the chain. So who knows. And if iFi is able to drive the chip at a 384khz (vs 200khz) PCM clockrate, great - kudos for sure.  Same with these high DSD samplerates. And I actually do believe that if dither is occurring at the XMOS level for 32->24, that's also fair, as dither is a legitimate method of getting more SNR out of a given bitdepth, at least perceptually, and perceptually is what matters.
  
 I don't expect iFi to expose trade secrets, but, I really do wonder if it'd be "giving away the store" or not to say either "Yes, the DSD1793 is running at max *spec* rates" or "No, the DSD1793 is running beyond those specs."  
  
 "Does it sound *good*?" - Yeah. Sure does.  Could it sound better? Dunno. That's what I'm trying to find out, and it's hard to navigate that field without stepping on toes and setting off land mines it seems. It's not like iFi/AMR epoxied over the DSD1793 in an attempt to hide it or anything. So yes, maybe they figured out some wonderful stuff.  *But really, i'm not interested in "deconstructing" the iDSD (in a negative light), just curious on trying to figure out how it works.*


----------



## michilumin

boxinghris said:


> Yes, it is 'odd' when judging a product by its sonic performance is viewed as sycophantic, very odd indeed.
> 
> We should all skip the listening tests in reviews and jump to the bench tests, where objective results will dictate how much we 'like' a product, and if that product is worth buying.
> 
> How the objective specifications relate to the subjective performance is irrelevant, although in the case of the iFi DAC it is not such a clear cut objectivist v subjectivist debate, as the objective performance is, I believe, as stated in the literature, and you may yet be able to 'like' your DAC and revel in both it's sonic and processing prowess...


 
  
 I'll state my point again: We may not be getting the full benefit of the higher rates if this isn't doing them. From all accounts, it appears to be a "friggin awesome" DSD64 DAC. Better than the Schiit Loki by quite a bit.  But, what if that's where it bumps its head?
  
 While it may sound good indeed, *it perhaps could sound even better.*
 I never said that bench tests are all that matters. They don't matter much at all. I honestly couldn't give two ****s about hooking it up to an o-scope. 
  
 I'm merely interested in whether or not we're hearing the maximum advantage that _*could *_be exploited by a true DSD128 or DSD256 DAC.
  
 And we may not be.
 That doesn't mean "the iFi iDSD Nano sucks" , or sounds bad, it just means that if we want a true window into to these higher rate formats, this may not be it - at least not fully.
  
 But then again, it may.  That's the point of asking.  I've bought the thing, and I'm not returning it, and I'm really following their dev on the iDSD Micro, which I'll probably get as soon as it's available.


----------



## ClieOS

Boys, for the benefit of the doubt, lets give iFi Audio the chance to explain before further discussion. I would think it is only fair as such.


----------



## michilumin

clieos said:


> Boys, for the benefit of the doubt, lets give iFi Audio the chance to explain before further discussion. I would think it is only fair as such.


 
  
 Agreed, and will do so. Thanks.


----------



## john57

While we wait on the official IFI statement I wanted to mention a few things I found out today. On Computer Audiophile  a reviewer, John Bamford, stated that PS Audio Direct Stream DAC is the best he has heard but did not quite measured well as he was saying. My understanding that is that Direct Stream converts everything to high multi bit for DSP processing and then gets converted back to 2xDSD. The 2xDSD signal then goes directly to a passive analog filter then  to output transformers. I have not read this review but I have heard the Direct Stream and it is very good, much better than their previous product.  My current understanding of DSD is that you only need a low pass filter on the signal and you are done. Regardless of the DSD being 2x 4x or 6x you just need a low pass filter and it can be analog and you are done. I would think it would be silly to try to down sample  6xDSD without going thru a PCM stage and why would you do that?   IFI did stated that the filter used for DSD is analog while for PCM it is digital. IFI also stated that the volume control again is analog. IFI again also stated that no DSP is being used and the Xbass and 3D is done in the analog domain. I am making some assumptions and I will see if my educated guess will be close to the official IFI statement. I trust my ears, myself regardless of the outcome or by others.


----------



## KmanChu

michilumin said:


> I'll state my point again: We may not be getting the full benefit of the higher rates if this isn't doing them. From all accounts, it appears to be a "friggin awesome" DSD64 DAC. Better than the Schiit Loki by quite a bit.  But, what if that's where it bumps its head?
> 
> While it may sound good indeed, *it perhaps could sound even better.*
> I never said that bench tests are all that matters. They don't matter much at all. I honestly couldn't give two ****s about hooking it up to an o-scope.
> ...


 
  
 No matter what the iDSD sounds like, of course it could sound better!! It's only a ~$500 DAC. No matter how good it sounds there is probably an old school 16bit non-oversampling DAC that would cost $20k and sounds better. The iDSD is a tiny DAC, built to low cost (in absolute terms) with lots of features. Most multibit DACs that take 24 bit signals don't make use of the full 24 bit depth. Anyway, don't expect the iDSD to be any kind of indicator of what quad or 8x DSD can deliver. But it may be able to take a 8x DSD signal and make it sound better than a 4x DSD signal.
  
 I find it interesting that you would question iFi's technical specs because they are a very forthright, open, and responsive company. This is basically AMR we are dealing with, not some fly-by-night operation. They have made very clear that they are philosophically committed to minimum digital signal manipulation and native conversion (as opposed to other companies who embrace DSP and processing in the digital domain.) Again, I understand you are not aggressively attacking the company but rather seeking clarification. Just understand that in their short time they have amassed a very loyal following for a reason: they have typically promised a lot and then over-delivered!


----------



## ostewart

"The "very high end" (YMMV) PS Audio Direct Stream DAC uses the same XMOS chip, and actually converts to *extreme* rate PCM in the chain."
  
 No trying to stir up any more. But @michilumin you do work for: http://www.superaudiocenter.com/index.htm and also have good contact and friendship with PS Audio and Mytek, and you also distribute Mytek (maybe you should be labled a member of the trade here on Head-Fi?) This is also your twitter, where you are clearly slating iFi/AMR: https://twitter.com/michilumin
  
 iFi have already explained what they do in a simple way, I don't believe they need to tell you everything they do, because otherwise any other company can do the same, which is not their goal.
  
 They have a loyal following due to their open attitude, and also explanation of what they do. They do care about audio quality and always say that measurements are important but not the last word in audio quality.
  
 Read here about chip used: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-headphones-used-at-ifi-we-reveal-all-well-a-fair-bit-anyway-page-76/690


----------



## koolas

Here are some snippets from DSD1793 white paper:



> *APPLICATION FOR DSD FORMAT (DSD MODE) INTERFACE*
> 
> *Feature*
> This mode is used for interfacing directly to a DSD decoder, which is found in Super Audio CD? (SACD) applications.
> ...






> *THEORY OF OPERATION*
> 
> The DSD1793 uses TI’s advanced segment DAC architecture to achieve excellent dynamic performance and
> improved tolerance to clock jitter. The DSD1793 provides balanced voltage outputs.
> ...




So, here are the conclusions to draw:


 Guys in TI tested this chip with 64 fS, and 
 this is the clock they advise you to use, because they know it works
 they didn't test 128 fS or 256 fS, or tests results were not satisfactory
 they guarantee chip works at 64 fS, but they are not telling you not to use 128 fS or 256 fS
 they also tell you, whatever clock you decide to use, you must satisfy timing requirements shown on Figure 39
 they also tell you that SDM modulator for PCM mode runs at 64 fS

And here is what I think:


 iDSD plays any PCM worse than DSD128, because in PCM mode it uses 64 fS, and in DSD128 it has to use 128 fS
 Me and someone else also have noticed that iDSD plays PCM as good as DSD64, and the reason probably is 64 fS

So, if assuming all above is true, then can we have new firmware that will use 128 fS for PCM playback, or is it fixed to 64 fS in the chip and nothing can be done?


----------



## ClieOS

The latest firmware can be found here: http://ifi-audio.com/ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## koolas

clieos said:


> The latest firmware can be found here: http://ifi-audio.com/ifi-xmos-firmware/




I just tested it with USB 3.0 of my Lenovo Y580 under Linux. Finally, device works. It works with both Pulse Audio and Jack tested 88/24 and DXD. Hurray


----------



## technobear

koolas said:


> iDSD plays any PCM worse than DSD128, because in PCM mode it uses 64 fS, and in DSD128 it has to use 128 fS
> Me and someone else also have noticed that iDSD plays PCM as good as DSD64, and the reason probably is 64 fS




Correlation is not causation 

This is just more wild speculation and I think we've had enough of that already from michilumin


----------



## iFi audio

Dear All,
  
 There we were, sipping our Pimms and we nearly spat our strawberry out when we saw all this kerfuffle.
  
 We thank you for the questions raised here and the points discussed. Life would certainly be tedious without some good old discussion.
  
 However, we humbly suggest no one gets too heated and we all keep things civil.
  
 On the engineering side, Thorsten and the technical team will pass on a reply when they are back at work on Monday. No biggie as our engineering team answered ClieOS who first raised the Burr-Brown question during his review of the nano iDSD. 
  
 Do not be too perturbed, if Technical says "it does DXD, 384KHz, DSD256," you can rest easy that it does exactly what it says on the tin.
  
 On this side of the pond, we do sometimes get excited but we do try be conservative and this is no different when it comes to the tech specs.
  
 Those of you who know our Mr Loesch will know that he knows his onions and would not say "DSD256 native" unless it did exactly that.
  
 It's Pimms o' clock again.
  

 Cheerio,
  
 iFi audio


----------



## ostewart

Thanks iFi for chiming in. Now let's wait for the tech genius to post his info


----------



## michilumin

ostewart said:


> "The "very high end" (YMMV) PS Audio Direct Stream DAC uses the same XMOS chip, and actually converts to *extreme* rate PCM in the chain."
> 
> No trying to stir up any more. But (Removed) you do work for: (removed) and also have good contact and friendship with PS Audio and Mytek, and you also distribute Mytek (maybe you should be labled a member of the trade here on Head-Fi?) This is also your twitter, where you are clearly slating iFi/AMR: (removed)
> iFi have already explained what they do in a simple way, I don't believe they need to tell you everything they do, because otherwise any other company can do the same, which is not their goal.
> ...


 
  
 Well, my reply got eaten -again- because it had links in it.
  
 Yes, I am with the SA Center - and yes, maybe I should flag that - but I am not with Mytek or PS Audio. 
  
 Mytek, we just switched to as an alternative to the more expensive Meitner DACs and ADCs.  And they're more flexible than the Meitners, too. And don't have loud fans. And aren't as heavy. And can be bought by the general public in 2014. That's pretty much the "Mytek relationship" there.
  
 As far as PS Audio goes, they are "geographically proximal", so a relationship happens generally that way at least in passing. We certainly don't get any of their revenue stream (I wish.) and don't and cant speak for them. If their $5000-$9000 kit sells like hotcakes, bully for them.  I know full well that that's not what's going to get most people listening to DSD recordings.
  
 The SA Center doesn't really have much stake in DACs except for what they can allow the end listener to hear. ADCs are much more important to us. What I DID want to do is compare this as an alternative to the Schiit Loki, which does only do DSD64.  But, I don't know how many times I can say it: a $189 DSD128+ DAC is an awesome thing. But I guess asking questions about the outright claims is forbidden. And deserving of personal attack. I really don't understand that.  
  
 This *really* isn't about business. If the iDSD is a way for people to get easy access to DSD128+ recordings, that's a GOOD thing.
 I get that you guys have been fans of iFi for long before I was made aware of these devices. So it may seem like I'm coming into a friendly house and questioning the owner.
  
 The explanation given in the thread you linked, my reaction is 'ehh, ok maybe.' - Showing progressively more detailed diagrams, from block to schematic - I'm not sure what that really proves.  Some things I totally concur with there: it's easier to do DSD well than it is to do PCM well.
  
 Really, though, the intent is NOT to just "sow discord so Mytek gets sales" or something weird like that. This isn't Mytek or PS Audio's target demographic anyways. If I worked for either of them (and I don't) - i'm not even sure they'd have much concern about these dacs eating into the 4-digit $ space.
  
 Even if the iDSD Nano *is* converting DSD128 to DSD64, and *doing it really well,* I'm not sure that's even something to be ashamed of. If it's dithering 32 bit to 24 bit, I've already said, I don't think that's illegitimate in the slightest.
  
 But if they claim "native" then it should be "native", and that's the disconnect i'm just trying to figure out here; and apparently I'm the first and only one ever to wonder. Or something equally deserving of derision.
  
 Maybe my previous post will be moderated in.
  
 But I'll repeat myself: *I hope I'm wrong about the operation of the DSD1793 in the iFi iDSD Nano and Micro.*
  
 I really want to be dead wrong about it. Really, really. I've actually spent the weekend thinking of ways that it could be done, and maybe what iFi comes back with will match one of those ways (or maybe it won't) - but if this all starts to gel, and make sense, I'll be in line to preorder the iDSD Micro as fast as I can type.


----------



## pokenguyen

All this problem is in your first post:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683406/ifi-audio-nano-idsd-announced/645#post_10669349
  
 Instead of just QUESTIONING, you were making ASSUMPTIONS about iFi Nano iDSD, conclude the iFi Nano iDSD is downsampling DSD. You don't use "maybe" "probably", you stated it like a FACT.
  


> it sure as heck can't do what iFi/AMR is claming it can do.
> 
> I'd say more likely, that this dac is outputting DSD64/2.8mhz and PCM 24/192, no matter what it's being fed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And that makes other annoyed by your attitude. Although you might be curious about DSD capability of iFi nano iDSD, but your way of stating is more insulting.


----------



## technobear

It's worse than insulting. It's defamatory and he has no evidence to back up these defamatory claims beyond what TI has CHOSEN to put on the PUBLICLY AVAILABLE spec sheet for the DSD1793.



michilumin said:


> Maybe my previous post will be moderated in.




Personally I hope all your posts will be moderated OUT and you with them :mad:


----------



## michilumin

Yeah, well, I know you guys have your angles on my motives, but:
  
 I just got out of the lab and, initial results?
  
*It looks like I was wrong. Straight up, skeptic converted.*
  
 I am blown away. I haven't tested PCM yet but, *THIS *is* doing DSD128 and DSD256. *On an old DSD1793. Wow.
  
 Holy shi*.  And "what the F*."
  
 Yes, I will say it outright. Nobody wants to see my spectrum plots I'm sure but... Holy crap.
 $189. DSD256. On a DSD1793.
  
 HOW?  But, its there but... HOW?!
  
 As I said, I would have been *HAPPY* to be wrong, and I AM.
  
*I am so sorry iFi.* All I can do is stare at these graphs and blink. And I hope that conversion of a staunch skeptic is enough to help here.
  
 From what I'm seeing, at the VERY least, they're running the thing at DSD256 even for PCM, but if they could get it to do DSD256,
 ... I need a drink. And need to go lock up the lab because the door is swinging wide open.
  
 This is amazing. I'm a skeptic converted and, damn, the iDSD Micro? SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.


----------



## EraserXIV

While I can see why the initial delivery could have been taken the wrong way, it was pretty clear michilumin was more curious than inflammatory with his subsequent posts. Regardless of his initial intentions, iFi themselves came in to diffuse the situation and no harm was done. I for one was also curious about this and feel like it was a worthwhile question to ask (since I'm pretty sure that my current DAC does not natively process DSD). 

I for one would love to see the spectrum plots.


----------



## boxinghris

michilumin said:


> Yeah, well, I know you guys have your angles on my motives, but:
> 
> I just got out of the lab and, initial results?
> 
> ...


 
 All's well that ends well, and you were man enough to hold your hands up on this one so fair play to you.  
  
 Group hug?


----------



## michilumin

eraserxiv said:


> While I can see why the initial delivery could have been taken the wrong way, it was pretty clear michilumin was more curious than inflammatory with his subsequent posts. Regardless of his initial intentions, iFi themselves came in to diffuse the situation and no harm was done. I for one was also curious about this and feel like it was a worthwhile question to ask (since I'm pretty sure that my current DAC does not natively process DSD).
> 
> I for one would love to see the spectrum plots.


 
  
 I'll clean some up get some "cleaner" inputs and probably post them on twitter via dropbox "For those who are interested".
  
 But when I saw that noise ramp move and saw the heterodyne sweep move into the 120khz range .... just... wow.
 I think I stared blankly for a good five minutes.


----------



## michilumin

boxinghris said:


> All's well that ends well, and you were man enough to hold your hands up on this one so fair play to you.
> 
> Group hug?


 
  
 Absolutely. This kicks ass. Happiest wrongyness of the year.
 Is the Micro preorderable yet?!


----------



## EraserXIV

michilumin said:


> Absolutely. This kicks ass. Happiest wrongyness of the year.
> Is the Micro preorderable yet?!




It may depend on your local dealer. A lot of good info in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-super-duper-2-2-last-but-not-least-onboard-ipurifier-technology-page-76/1140#post_10672306

I can't wait for the iDSD mini. Don't really have a need for the Micro. A little too large for a portable setup, not enough connectivity for my home setup.


----------



## michilumin

eraserxiv said:


> It may depend on your local dealer. A lot of good info in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-super-duper-2-2-last-but-not-least-onboard-ipurifier-technology-page-76/1140#post_10672306
> 
> I can't wait for the iDSD mini. Don't really have a need for the Micro. A little too large for a portable setup, not enough connectivity for my home setup.


 
  
 At this rate I'll likely end up getting both.  I was looking at the TEAC UD-501, but... I'm not anymore.


----------



## michilumin

And, PCM tests done. Equal wow.
  
 120khz, 144khz, 168khz and 184khz heterodynes into the 32bit 384khz PCM test file,
 120khz, 144khz, 168khz and 184khz heterodynes out of the iFi iDSD on the spec analyzer.
  
 Obviously none of these would be possible if the iDSD was doing 24/192, as it's below 192's 96khz nyquist limit.
 Absolutely no way it could be doing anything but 384khz, especially with the 184khz clean tone returning.
  
 That also means that the iFi iDSD has at least a 0-184khz frequency response. Jeez.
 I could use this thing to transmit radio if I wanted to.
  
 Also "since I was in there",  looks like the "minimum phase" filter shifts the DSD noise ramp up a bit further from the audible band without really affecting audible band frequency response. So yes, "minimum phase" is a nice place to be, filterwise.
  
 Impressed. REALLY impressed.
  
 Do you guys at iFi have a back room filled with actual bona-fide wizards? Because the word "unbelievable" is what lead me to term it that when I was a skeptic a few hours ago. Now I can only use it in the colloquial sense.


----------



## KmanChu

michilumin said:


> And, PCM tests done. Equal wow.
> 
> 120khz, 144khz, 168khz and 184khz heterodynes into the 32bit 384khz PCM test file,
> 120khz, 144khz, 168khz and 184khz heterodynes out of the iFi iDSD on the spec analyzer.
> ...


 
 Welcome to the iFi fan-boy club with the rest of us!


----------



## michilumin

kmanchu said:


> Welcome to the iFi fan-boy club with the rest of us!


 
  
 I am one, now, absolutely. Now if I can only find a place in the US to preorder. (Seriously.) Spent the latter part of today shooting out emails trying to see if anyone will be carrying part of the first allocation.


----------



## john57

I also have the Loki but I find that my Nano iDSD sounding more like analog tape, like my old Barclay Crocker open reel tapes I used to have. I miss that sound and the iDSD just brings that back for the most part. I think that IFI is on the right path with products that would be interesting for a  wide range of users and tastes.  It may be possible for IFI be a key player in getting people more interested in DSD recordings? The small high end audio store in Boulder on 30th street had three iDSD nano's for sale when I went there for a CAS meeting.


----------



## ostewart

Sorry if I was a bit harsh, I am glad you have discovered for yourself that they do not lie about their products, and that you enjoy their products. Enjoy and Happy Listening


----------



## koolas

michilumin said:


> And, PCM tests done. Equal wow.
> That also means that the iFi iDSD has at least a 0-184khz frequency response. Jeez.
> I could use this thing to transmit radio if I wanted to.




I think your approach is quite ridiculous.(*edit:* _I don't think that anymore, I guess you are right_) The range humans can hear is 20-20k Hz, so I would consider it quite normal to filter anything above 20k Hz regardless of sampling rate supported. There are reasons to use higher sampling rate, but widening transmitted range is the last one on the list. Most important thing that you gain when sample rate is higher, is that you can use analogue filter of lower order, i.e. it doesn't have to filter everything sharp after 22kHz but it can fall off gently to let's say 56kHz or more (*edit:* _and because of that you will have in the output frequencies higher than 22kHz, and that means I just proven my first statement wrong_). If you look at DSD1793 white paper there are plots of filter responses. You will also find there that DSD mode is implemented as analogue FIR filter. You will also find no statement about that chip supports max DSD64, but instead you will find N x fS, where they say N = 64 is default application, but they don't say you can't use bigger N. It's like with processors, they say 2.8GHz, but you can over-clock that to 4GHz if you like to. But if you do so you have to guarantee stable power supply and proper working temperature, which could be costly thing to do. I presume you didn't have much to do with electronic engineering, and thus you say things that create cloud of misunderstanding.

To iFi: Can you confirm that chip is running with N = 128 and N = 256, so that michilumin is kept happy?


----------



## koolas

clieos said:


> The latest firmware can be found here: http://ifi-audio.com/ifi-xmos-firmware/




I'm testing this firmware second day now, and must say I'm impressed. First, it did work perfectly out of USB 3.0 socket on my laptop, now I'm running in the office Foobar2k and I tested foo_output_dsd in native ASIO DSD256 mode using SDM Type D (FP32) PCM to DSD conversion algorithm. Must say sound quality is really great, but I think PCM playback has also been improved, because before I would stat that PCM converted to DSD sounds better than PCM played as PCM, and now I have hard time figuring out which one tastes better to me. 

Good job iFi! :rolleyes:

BTW. Now I can switch between DSD and PCM without device hanging-up.


----------



## analogsurviver

koolas said:


> I think your approach is quite ridiculous. The range humans can hear is 20-20k Hz, so I would consider it quite normal to filter anything above 20k Hz regardless of sampling rate supported. There are reasons to use higher sampling rate, but widening transmitted range is the last one on the list. Most important thing that you gain when sample rate is higher, is that you can use analogue filter of lower order, i.e. it doesn't have to filter everything sharp after 22kHz but it can fall off gently to let's say 56kHz or more. If you look at DSD1793 white paper there are plots of filter responses. You will also find there that DSD mode is implemented as analogue FIR filter, if you know what that is. You will also find no statement about that chip supports max DSD64, but instead you will find N x fS, where they say N = 64 is default application, but they don't say you can't use bigger N. It's like with processors, they say 2.8GHz, but you can over-clock that to 4GHz if you like to. But if you do so you have to guarantee stable power supply and proper working temperature, which could be costly thing to do. I presume you didn't have much to do with electronic engineering, and thus you say things that create cloud of misunderstanding.
> 
> To iFi: Can you confirm that chip is running with N = 128 and N = 256, so that michilumin is kept happy?


 
 I disagree that *michilumin*'s response is ridiculous - quite to the contrary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodyne What he did use was a viable way of testing if nano iDSD actually does what iFi is claiming. The mere technique he used indicates that he has had "more than some" to do with electronics. Although the way he went first about claiming nano can not do as advertised was a bit harsh, I appreciate that after testing /proving for himself he admitted he was wrong - kudos for that. It certainly is a confirmation/second opinion from a third party - which can only benefit all concerned.
  
 I would disagree with any audio system that is limiting frequency response to 20 kHz - particularly so steep as redbook CD with  a default "nothing beyond 22.05 kHz". It is one of the reasons why DSD, even DSD64, sounds more natural than PCM - it never needs to filter that steep as PCM. Each time DSD sampling goes up, so does the attainable frequency response. It is a tradeoff how far up in the frequency response one wants to go vs the outband HF noise inherent to the DSD. That is why practically any DSD DAC ever made use user selectable analog output filtering - so that each and everyone can choose what suits his/hers equipment/ears best. For example, Stax amplifiers driving a single pair of HPs can start producing noise with DSD64 recordings if driven to close to 0 dB - because ultrasonic noise from either DSD or SACD ( only different forms of DSD64 ) can exceed the capabilities of Stax amps in the ultrasonic range. That holds true for SRM1MK2 driving a single pair of Lambdas; lower powered Stax models may well begin noising at lower level - and driving two or more pairs of HPs in parallel will definitely produce trouble. If this occurs, in case there is user selectable filtering for DSD, a steeper filter has to be selected, as amplifier does not support out of audible band noise well enough. The whole point in DSD512 ( provided in micro iDSD) is in the fact one could (almost?) get rid of the output filtering, which always limits the quality of pulse response, while keeping the HF noise of DSD low enough. I am really interested in measured frequency response of micro iDSD with DSD512 - because it could in theory and practice reach "essentially flat", say - 3dB at approx 200 kHz . Depends on the filtering ( if any ) selected.
  
 Similar frequency response considerations for the DXD - theorethically, up to approx 350 kHz. Again, tradeoff for gentler filtering than necessary for redbook CD can be aplied - and I would be interested in measurements for the choices iFi made. For example, Korg DSD recorders, when recording PCM 192/24, are flat ( ADC + DAC) to just above 80 kHz - and not to 96 kHz theorethical limit - and then steep filtering. By 96 kHz, the signal is next to nonexistant. DSD64, although attenuated, goes well past 100 kHz .
  
 My rant "a couple of posts ago" regarding DSD512 has to be viewed in light what it means on the recording side and consequences it will have on the support required for playback.  It means piles and piles of money in order to provide true DSD512 recording with all the benefits it offers - the first being extended frequency response well past 20 kHz.
  
 Nothing against iFi providing it in  micro iDSD. Priciples apply equally to the nano iDSD - with the limitation it is 2 times slower and less capable in everything - but both are incredible good value.


----------



## iFi audio

Hi All,
  
*Disclaimer: Before we proceed, we would like to first apologise. We cannot give out the full details/answers to all of your technical questions relating to our designs. As you know, AMR/iF’s technical proficiency is quite idiosyncratic and that’s what makes iFi different from other audio manufactures. Notwithstanding, we always try to disclose as much as we can.*
  
 We would first would like to thank Michi Lumin for taking time on her Sunday, going to the Lab and spending time (and time is money) to perform all the tests and to go public with the results. As is our perennial position, measurements are not the end all and be all. It pays to be circumspect (even though they support iFi’s contention). Always listen and judge for yourself that is all the proof you need.
  
 Michi, you seem to have some nice test tones or test tone generator for DSD, what do you use?
  
 We were prepared to run a set of tests today and post the results, but this seems redundant now. Less work is always appreciated around here. There remain one or two questions to be addressed, though.
  
 Please understand that we will not divulge details how things work on a technical level, we spend enough time figuring things out for ourselves. What we can give out has been done over on the micro iDSD Crowd-Design thread – including chipset implementation (read: uprated engine) and XMOS programming (read: uprated gearbox) as both are needed, so don't just focus on the former.
  
*But the question remains, do we “overclock” the DSD1793 and why the DSD1793?*
 Addressing the latter first, one of the reasons we can in fact execute DSD512 and double speed DXD (on the iDSD micro) and DSD256 and DXD on the nano is precisely because of that old dusty chip. It has a sound quality that others have described as “analogue”, which is PRECISELY what we at AMR/iFi strive for.
  
 Our ultimate goal is sound that has all the good bits of digital (low noise, wide bandwidth etc.) but with the sonic signature of “analogue”. There is enough “digital” sounding gear out there, no need to add even more.
  

  
 This brings us to question number 2, do we “overclock”? In the sense of running higher clock-speed than stated under “maximum ratings” allowed for the DSD1793, the answer is a categorical “not on your nelly”, we do not overclock; we do not run the chip faster than it can go; we do not risk overheating; dropped bits; system crashes and all that stuff you get with “overclocking”.
  
 You wont find this in any iFi product.

  
 However, it is true that we run clock speeds other than those suggested by BB (now TI) and we use modes and settings other than those suggested by BB/TI. The modes and operation settings and limits are of course not publicly documented by TI/BB. One needs to refer to some confidential documentation regarding the internal silicon design of the chip (able to converse with the actual chip designers themselves, not the marketing guys who drafted the datasheets helped). While this was of much assistance, it still took us quite a while and it needs considerable custom-coding on the XMOS side as well, to produce data that the DSD1793 can accept correctly and decode at those speeds.
  
  
*How does this compare to the most obvious alternative solution, the ESS platform? *
 There are many off-the-shelf USB solutions and connecting it to an ESS DAC Chip that figures out by itself what format and sample rate it receives and configures itself suitably makes live very easy. Come to the office at 11, break for lunch at 1, come back at 4, down the pub for happy hour at 5:30 and we still designed a world class DAC today.
  
 So is it a lot simpler? Yes, but we are now face with limitations (tech limitations, sound limitations) built into ESS’s silicon. We were not willing to accept these limitations. We want to deliver a Supercar DAC (read: no speed limits).
  
  
*Do we have a back room filled with actual bona-fide wizards?*
 Well, there is this Harry character who works here and who claimed he went to Hogwarts after his 7th Guinness, but we don’t take him very seriously on that count. He does have a strange soldering scar on his forehead though (a soldering iron is not a magical wand!).
  
 No, there is no magic to this, just blinking hard graft, attention to detail and meticulous and extended testing of parts we work with, plus recognition of the wisdom of recently sainted Bob Pease who said “Datasheets never include the part you really need to know”.
  
 From the iFi tech team


----------



## technobear

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/96kwILL35ig[/VIDEO]


----------



## Mr Creosote




----------



## ClieOS

mr creosote said:


> ...


 
  
 Err... what?


----------



## obsidyen

iFi team, what do you think of AKM's new high end chip, AK4495SEQ? I really hate the digital sound signature of Sabre chips so I can see you guys are very good at choosing the right chips for your products. AKM says this is their best chip, have you tried it or are you thinking of using it for any future product?


----------



## koolas

Just testing DSD playback under Linux, and apparently it just works (with latest iFi firmware) with HQPlayer.


----------



## michilumin

_"Datasheets never include the parts you really need to know."_
  
 So, I've learned a valuable lesson on this.  And - folks, please, I need to implore. This isn't about it "measuring well vs sounding well".  I just, okay, well, let me back up a bit.
  
 I do indeed work with the Super Audio Center, making SACDs and, specifically, helping engineer Sonoma. That will beget a boo and a hiss from some, and an "Oh, OK" from others. I understand - we're trying to make it better and trying to get it to do the higher DSD rates. Really. That's my "stake" in the game.
  
 However, if that could be called a "night job", my "day job" is working with Software Defined Radio and high frequency digital signals.
  
 And then, paired with my DSD alter ego, I'm kind of always thinking about how this fits in with audio. So, I do apologize that that's what's flying through my mind most of the time.
  
 So to answer AMRs question: I have a whoooole lot of scientific acquisition ADCs and signal generating DAC setups in the lab, to test into the GHz range. I've got DSD sweeps at least for DSD128 up to 150khz, and the ability to generate tones and heterodynes up to 500khz for up to PCM 768khz. When you get into the realm of sampling and reproducing RF, this kinda stuff is needed. Most of this is my own software "test harness", some of it comes from RF engineering, some of it from audio.  I'm currently in a "chipset mess" myself, dealing with two high frequency ADCs that aren't doing what they're supposed to. So yeah, that's where my head's been at.
  
*Please don't kill me. I'm not just talking about measurements.*
  
 I had been familiar with the DSD1700s in the Meitner DACs, and watched TI/BB's development into the DSD1791/DSD1793 chipset (same thing, different flavor; SW vs HW control), and later on into the DSD1792/1794 chips, and most recently, the PCM1795.  (Which, I will admit, has good 'gozinta' specs, but not so great 'gozouta' specs. And sounds kind of dull.)
  
 Funny thing, out of those setups, the *old, dusty DSD1700* in the Meitners always sounded ... a little bit better to me. According to the spec sheet, they shouldn't.  In sound, they just did. So trust me*, I am no stranger to the disparity between measurements and sound. *
  
 But my concern wasn't "is it good, or is it bad" - for most people, that's all they should have to worry about.  For me I really wanted to know if "this new Nano thing" really could "exhibit" DSD128 and DSD256, and, it turns out, indeed-it-do. 
  
 To determine that, "true or false", not qualitative - a "benchy, measure-ey"  test was needed. Again, a "litmus test", Y or N, not a qualitative test. Needless to say that "while I was in there", I noticed that the Nano performed... impressively. Please understand: Performing a heterodyne test near Nyquist frequency is a legitimate way to tell what sample rate a device is operating at, at least "positively". It's not a "measurement", it's a binary check. If there's not a filter in the way, it'll tell you.  If you put a 180kHz heterodyne into a system running at 24/192kHz PCM, you'll get either nothing, or a real mess, out. However if you do get the same clear signal you put in, out of it, then, that's proof that it is running at that rate.  So I'm not suggesting the "quality" of such a device should be measured, this was more of... exploratory surgery.
  
 And now that I think of it, after all this mess - there's more oddity in the mix: *The old DSD1700s can do DSD128*.They're not supposed to. The old DSD1700s can almost do whatever you tell them to. Sorta. I mean the specs sure don't say they can - they were made in a time when if you said "DSD128" you'd get a blank stare. Or if you even said "PCM 24/192" you'd maybe get a tilted-head glance. So, really, AMR basing these DACs on the "slight" evolution of those chips, the DSD1793, makes a whole lot of sense now.. 
  
 Basically, I had my eyes glued to the damned TI/BB spec sheet.  And was doing what a lot of engineers tend to do after being mired in projects after a while: not thinking outside of the parameters. *What AMR said about needing to know what went on inside the silicon, and even knowing some of the chip developers, all makes a whole lot of sense to me now.*
  
 I really feel that my approach here on head-fi was wrong. I meant to be incredulous but not outright denying, and I took that too far.  Trust me, I feel bad. I had to take a few days off listening to my Nano because of what transpired here.  And i'll probably go back to read-only mode after this.
  
 But it was based on a cynicism that I've gathered up dealing so often lately with "promised functionality" not being "delivered functionality". And I am sorry that that colored this. And I need to put it in check.  When I heard "AMR runs the DSD1791/1793 in a secret, unsupported manner", my first reaction was "Oh come on."
  
 But, after testing it, and finding out that, indeed, it does, I gotta say, thanks for doing engineering "the right way" vs the "confined" way. I always preached that, and this week I found myself caught up in it.
  
 Not good. But maybe there's a reason for everything that transpires. Think outside the box, and all that. AMR is certainly doing that.


----------



## michilumin

john57 said:


> I also have the Loki but I find that my Nano iDSD sounding more like analog tape, like my old Barclay Crocker open reel tapes I used to have. I miss that sound and the iDSD just brings that back for the most part. I think that IFI is on the right path with products that would be interesting for a  wide range of users and tastes.  It may be possible for IFI be a key player in getting people more interested in DSD recordings? The small high end audio store in Boulder on 30th street had three iDSD nano's for sale when I went there for a CAS meeting.


 
  
 I agree that the Loki does sound more clinical compared to the Nano. I'm not sure why that is, but while Schiit makes some good stuff, their disdain for DSD is kinda... not hidden. Which is unfortunate.
  
 It's not bad, but it is more "digital" sounding - but that seems to line up with AKM's "house sound" imo, which is what they use in the Loki; not speak for their analog loop.
  
 I think the Nano will be key actually in bringing DSD recordings to, well, maybe not the masses, but more people.  The price and portability, for one, appeals to a lot of folks. Those are all the right buttons.  Hi-rez playback on portable devices is going to mature in the next few years, there's basically no stopping it.  Right now the software side has to catch up to the Nano.


----------



## EraserXIV

Great contributions to the thread michilumin. While I understand the kerfuffle that happened the other day may have definitely left a bad taste in your mouth, I hope you still chime in once in a while, even after you fall back into your _read-only _mode. It was interesting to see discussions with actual data and substance as opposed to the "fluff" that gets thrown around a lot here.


----------



## iFi audio

obsidyen said:


> iFi team, what do you think of AKM's new high end chip, AK4495SEQ? I really hate the digital sound signature of Sabre chips so I can see you guys are very good at choosing the right chips for your products. AKM says this is their best chip, have you tried it or are you thinking of using it for any future product?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This particular AKM IC is not yet available for purchase or as evaluation sample, so we cannot possibly comment.
  
 Prior AKM Chip's have seen widespread HiFi/Pro applications, and has been picked up as a DSD DAC. So far our experience has been that while AKM offers solid performance, their DAC's do not give the qualities to the sound we prefer.
  
 This new one promises to be different. We will try once released (as opposed to announced).


----------



## iFi audio

michilumin said:


> _"Datasheets never include the parts you really need to know."_
> 
> So, I've learned a valuable lesson on this.  And - folks, please, I need to implore. This isn't about it "measuring well vs sounding well".  I just, okay, well, let me back up a bit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Your test lab is indeed very neat and more important still, you know and are able to fully-maximise. Nice!
  
 You would be surprised how many people measure but do not truly know what they are measuring and when it is published, it is taken as gospel. Just because someone has a probe, it doesn't mean they know where to stick it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Your point is valid about measuring to verify that the nano iDSD indeed is capable of Quad-Speed DSD et al. It can happen to all of us and we're all on the learning curve. Nonetheless, all good and keep sharing your thoughts on this matter as it does make for interesting reading for all of us.
  
 We hope you stick around and consider offering the Test material (as Super Audio Centre) to the community and other professionals at a reasonable fee. Testing High-Resolution DAC's (be it DSD or > 96KHz) is mainly limited by the test signals and other items one can get...
  
 We have created our own, but it would be nice if there was a "standard suite"  of DSD Test signals everyone could access and feed a DAC or Player and the other end to an AP2, Prism dScope or other good industry standard analyser.
  
 At iFi we are format agnostic. DSD512, 176.4K/24Bit or even MP3 - if it sounds good it is good and customers are entitled to get the best out of the music they got, whatever the format.
  
*> The old DSD1700s can do DSD128*.They're not supposed to. The old DSD1700s can almost do whatever you tell them to. Sorta. I mean the specs sure don't say they can - they were made in a time when if you said "DSD128" you'd get a blank stare. 
  
 Burr-Brown (Japan) and Burr-Brown (TI) are two different companies. As you know, the Japanese are fanatical about doing things well, hence they did extra things that nowadays would not be allowed by the accounting department.
  
 Take another example, the Philips TDA1541A. The datasheet says "put SMD cap across pins 16 + 17." But AMR about a decade ago came across one of the Philips engineers who had put an "Easter Egg" inside the the TDA1541A. The Dynamic Element Matching circuit is a separate circuit that connects to pins 16+17. This improves the linearity one heck of a lot on the standard TDA1541A and brings it much closer to the rare as rocking horse poop TDA151A S2 Double--Crown.
  

  
 So you see, it really does pay to research these puppies down to the silicon-die level.
  
 We are not against new chips per se and we can't wait to get our paws on them but quite often it costs less money to implement new chips - which usually is not a good sign.
  
 It all worked out and we are glad that you know we haven't been telling porkies!
  
 iFi team


----------



## earwaxxer

Wow! this has been a great, and stimulating, conversation/argument - I'm like pissing myself...


----------



## obsidyen

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> This particular AKM IC is not yet available for purchase or as evaluation sample, so we cannot possibly comment.
> 
> ...


 

 I see... Let's hope it's as good as they say it is. For now, Burr Browns are the best.


----------



## KmanChu

michilumin said:


> I really feel that my approach here on head-fi was wrong. I meant to be incredulous but not outright denying, and I took that too far.  Trust me, I feel bad. I had to take a few days off listening to my Nano because of what transpired here.  And i'll probably go back to read-only mode after this.


 
  
 Classy post. Please don't feel the need to go away unless you just want to. It is good to have a knowledgable people here.


----------



## atraf

Hello everyone I am interested in a DAC up to 300$ to connect to my CRACK > HD650 and as an dac/amp for my IPHONE > gr07 BE IEM's 
 I have thought about the HRT microstreamer and heard a lot of good stuff about it, I have recently discovered the IFI NANO, to be honest I have no use for dsd decoding since i barely know what it is and most of my music in FLAC 16/44 and up,, but the other options like battery and volume knob sound good and for future insurance it also support dsd.. 
 Anyway beside all of that I have a few questions: 
 1) I mainly listen to electronic so BASS is important to me, I don't want something that is too flat sounding (dac wise), how is it compared to the HRT Microstreamer sound wise?
 2) What is the button minimum/standard stand for? gain ?
 3) Whats the point of having a digital output? what do you guys use it for?


----------



## jexby

atraf said:


> Hello everyone I am interested in a DAC up to 300$ to connect to my CRACK > HD650 and as an dac/amp for my IPHONE > gr07 BE IEM's
> I have thought about the HRT microstreamer and heard a lot of good stuff about it, I have recently discovered the IFI NANO, to be honest I have no use for dsd decoding since i barely know what it is and most of my music in FLAC 16/44 and up,, but the other options like battery and volume knob sound good and for future insurance it also support dsd..
> Anyway beside all of that I have a few questions:
> 1) I mainly listen to electronic so BASS is important to me, I don't want something that is too flat sounding (dac wise), how is it compared to the HRT Microstreamer sound wise?
> ...


 
  
 Hello,
  
 I had the Microstreamer for a couple weeks (returned it, wanted battery power thus) have now owned nano iDSD for a few months, and love it!
 (especially with iPad/iPhone and Mac/PCs)
 answers:
  
 1.  I have found the bass (especially drums) to sound more realistic (live) than the GO450 and microstreamer.  it's one of the strengths of nano iDSD I believe.

  sounds a bit more like being in a room acoustics wise,
 drum skins sound a bit more real as do other drum kit elements (wooden or cymbal taps).

 sometimes bass drum feels more enveloping, with more initial punch. 
  
 2.  the flip switch is for a "minimum" filter applied to the sound, whereas Standard is "no filter" and better for pure measurements.
 I can't really tell any audible difference in the flip switch selection when listening to songs.
  
 3.  haven't used digital output feature.
  
  
 nano iDSD features/sound blew me away so much, I've pre-ordered the micro iDSD.
 should you want to buy a mint condition nano iDSD, send me a PM.


----------



## atraf

Thank you for your response, exactly the answers I needed.. 
 I didn't even notice the micro it looks like a very big upgrade and improvment over the nano, the spdif input and more power is great for my needs, but I can't seem to find where can I preorder it or what is the price? 
  
 By the way, I see you have the HD600 how is it with the nano? can it drive them?
  
  
 EDIT::: 
  
 Ok just saw the price 500 euros o_0 
 I am tempted but i just bought the crack and the overall expenses were very expensive crap dunno what to do


----------



## jexby

atraf said:


> Thank you for your response, exactly the answers I needed..
> I didn't even notice the micro it looks like a very big upgrade and improvment over the nano, the spdif input and more power is great for my needs, but I can't seem to find where can I preorder it or what is the price?
> 
> By the way, I see you have the HD600 how is it with the nano? can it drive them?


 
  
 1.  for micro iDSD pre-orders, you would want to find European iFi Audio resellers via the iFi web site.  then email each dealer directly.  pre-orders are limited.
 I understand the price is quite a jump, which is why the Nano is quite an amazing product for $189 USA.
 micro has a ton of features, bigger size, more power etc.
  
 2.  I have not driven the HD600 with nano.  don't have a 3.5mm plug on m HD600 with a new cable installed, but hm.  I might look around the house for the stock Senn cable and hook it up to the nano this weekend just for curiosity.
 doubt it would be "awesome sounding" when calculations show HD600 need 200mW at 300ohm to blow the doors off at 120dB.
 and nano provides 130mW at 13ohm IIRC.
  
 I do find the nano great for my IEMs (not overly sensitive UM3X, Heir 4.AiS) and NAD HP50.


----------



## iFi audio

atraf said:


> By the way, I see you have the HD600 how is it with the nano? can it drive them?


 
  
 Hi
  
 Pertaining to the micro iDSD:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-hifi-man-he-6-takes-on-the-meaty-monster-page-82/1215#post_10681580
  

  
 The music is belting out from the HE-6! It is NOT the backing music!
  
 Hope you all get a kick out of watching the HE-6 being tamed by the micro iDSD.


----------



## exsomnis

A few months back I did an A/B between my iDSD (as a DAC) and ODAC and decided that while it was close and there wasn't too much between them, I preferred the extra detail provided by the ODAC.  Today I decided to give the iDSD another go, as I had some hi-res tracks that the ODAC couldn't deal with and discovered to my dismay that the sound from the RCA outs was terrible, as in zero soundstage and a thin and veiled sound.  No volume level, min to max, helped at all.
  
 Anyone know what happened to my iDSD?


----------



## analogsurviver

exsomnis said:


> A few months back I did an A/B between my iDSD (as a DAC) and ODAC and decided that while it was close and there wasn't too much between them, I preferred the extra detail provided by the ODAC.  Today I decided to give the iDSD another go, as I had some hi-res tracks that the ODAC couldn't deal with and discovered to my dismay that the sound from the RCA outs was terrible, as in zero soundstage and a thin and veiled sound.  No volume level, min to max, helped at all.
> 
> Anyone know what happened to my iDSD?


 
 Abandoned lovers may well be "a bit" troublesome upon we return 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 It happened today to me - much the same thing. Usually, it will be some USB power issue - i forgot to turn on the power supply  for the USB hub. ( not a recommended practice to use any USB hub to begin with !  ). Switchin the nano to battery power (power it down, disconnect the USB cable, power it on, reconnect the USB cable ) should do the trick. It could also be that the battery is flat - recharge first. And/or use good USB power supply, like ifi own USB iPure.
  
 Good luck !


----------



## exsomnis

analogsurviver said:


> Abandoned lovers may well be "a bit" troublesome upon we return :rolleyes: .
> 
> It happened today to me - much the same thing. Usually, it will be some USB power issue - i forgot to turn on the power supply  for the USB hub. ( not a recommended practice to use any USB hub to begin with !  ). Switchin the nano to battery power (power it down, disconnect the USB cable, power it on, reconnect the USB cable ) should do the trick. It could also be that the battery is flat - recharge first. And/or use good USB power supply, like ifi own USB iPure.
> 
> Good luck !




I should've thought of that! The battery was flat, surprising since it's been off all this time. I'll give it an overnight charge and see how things go. Thanks!


Edit: I can confirm that it's back to normal


----------



## analogsurviver

exsomnis said:


> I should've thought of that! The battery was flat, surprising since it's been off all this time. I'll give it an overnight charge and see how things go. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Edit: I can confirm that it's back to normal


 
 Glad to hear it. Although only familiar with the nano iDSD. the iFi Audio gear is obviously anything but - iffy.


----------



## earwaxxer

Speaking of the nano battery... It seems to me that the nano sounds better running off the battery than it does from the PC, even with the iPurifier in place. I havent done much of a comparison though, just a quick test. Wonder if anyone else has noticed the same?


----------



## maricius

earwaxxer said:


> Speaking of the nano battery... It seems to me that the nano sounds better running off the battery than it does from the PC, even with the iPurifier in place. I havent done much of a comparison though, just a quick test. Wonder if anyone else has noticed the same?


 
  
 I haven't heard the nano so I can't speak for it itself but it's actually very common to see manufacturers add a battery as utilising its own Li battery is cleaner than using USB power from a noisy laptop. This is actually why people would add something like the iUSB or something similar, to completely filter out USB noise and use "clean" energy


----------



## analogsurviver

earwaxxer said:


> Speaking of the nano battery... It seems to me that the nano sounds better running off the battery than it does from the PC, even with the iPurifier in place. I havent done much of a comparison though, just a quick test. Wonder if anyone else has noticed the same?


 
 As old as the hills - well, maybe a bit less. But certainly as old as portable CD players; there were quite a few looong faces back in the day when my no name portable CD player (do I reaaly need to point out powered by batteries...)
 sonically outperformed quite a few stationery AC powered CD players. Some od these fed so much garbage from their power suppply back to AC outlet that the mere plugging the CD player in the same AC outlet as the rest of the *analog *system was plugged in into seriously degraded the sound - even if CD player was not turned on. IIRC, one Rotel model was particularly nasty in this matter - it took quite some time to figure this out, what resulted in "powering" the unit on or off by solely (un)plugging it into wall AC outlet - only when listening to CDs.
  
 I run the nano always off its battery when doing any critical listening; improvements over USB power will vary due to different computers etc - but you can always count that the battery works as it should.


----------



## koolas

This is why power supply unit in my NAD takes 1/2 space in the unit, and is strongly separated from the rest with huge thick metal wall, and it weighs 3/4 of the unit weight, which is 25kg! (The shelf on which it is standing is bending!)

I don't think you can fit such a big power supply into iDSD 

BTW. I also tried to connect iDSD to NAD's Main-In inputs (directly to power amp) and I got a lot of noise, when iDSD was USB-connected with my desktop PC, but when I just disconnected USB cable, noise disappeared... G... And I'm taking about loud noise, very loud. Would iPurifier help? If iDSD had optical input, then that would help alot.


----------



## john57

Sounds like a bad ground loop you have. That is due to computer and the NAD having different grounding resistance.    If you have a laptop not connected to charging station you should not get the noise. The issue with optical is that is does not do DSD or DXD well. I like to solve ground loops before I would even try optical.


----------



## maczh2002

Does anyone pair the nano iDSD with the nano iCan?
  
 Which headphones do you use?


----------



## semeniub

maczh2002 said:


> Does anyone pair the nano iDSD with the nano iCan?
> 
> Which headphones do you use?


 
 I do, and I use both Audeze LCD2's and Sennheiser Momentum on-ear headphones. There's enough power to listen to the Audeze's at reasonable levels.
  
 I found that the nano iDSD and nano iCan combo really sounded nice once I connected them together with high quality interconnect cables.


----------



## almaamp

Hi,
  
 Have the ifi nano idsd for 12 days and here are first lightening impressions and experiences in Windows PC and android phone (sorry for my English).
 First the good part, beautiful sounding DAC/Amp with the AKG K550 or connected to my amp and speakers, very musical, good image, balance and extension a real improvement to my audio gear. Also connected my family Sennheiser's (HD201, HD437 and PC330) and all sounded better then before only the HD201 are now extremely bass heavy.
 Connected to my Laptop running Windows 7 and Foobar2000 had some problems with DSD playback and configuration after 2 contacts with ifi support (that was not very helpful), a lot of web searching and installing new firmware everything is working find now.
 Connected to Samsung S3 with android 4.1.2 with "stock" SW I have no sound (with my Topping TP30 it's just plug and play), third contact with ifi support, again not very helpful, just advised USB Audio Player Pro and sent config file for this SW. Tried the Demo but the playback of DXD and DSD files is, very often, noisy tried different buffer sizes and the USB tweak until the demo expired with no success.
 Despite the remaining problems with the Android playback and the noisy volume pot it's worth every cent I paid.


----------



## dacari

almaamp said:


> Despite the remaining problems with the Android playback and the noisy volume pot it's worth every cent I paid.


 
  
 No problems with my Note3 + USB Audio Player, really really amazing, easy and open sound.
  
 My only concern is the volume knob and its path. Since I use iems, I have a tiny range to play with, the problem is that from 8:30 to 9:30 dosn't do anything and once I pass 9:30 there is a big jump so I only have from 9:30 to 10,  because beyond 10 is far too loud.
  
 I hope in next firmwares they could decrease -db in order to get a more progressive and gradual volume path.


----------



## iFi audio

dacari said:


> No problems with my Note3 + USB Audio Player, really really amazing, easy and open sound.
> 
> My only concern is the volume knob and its path. Since I use iems, I have a tiny range to play with, the problem is that from 8:30 to 9:30 dosn't do anything and once I pass 9:30 there is a big jump so I only have from 9:30 to 10,  because beyond 10 is far too loud.
> 
> I hope in next firmwares they could decrease -db in order to get a more progressive and gradual volume path.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 IEMs range from high to ultra-high efficiency. They are designed for the iPhone which has 15mW. The nano iDSD puts out 130mW which is almost 10x the power.
  
 The easiest solution is an attenuator. If you contact your distributor/dealer, you may wish to try the iFi attenuators which come in -12dB and -24dB versions.
  
 Any firmware update will not address this fundamental/sensitivity power mis-match.
  
 Thanks


----------



## jexby

I can vouch for these iFi attenuators working superbly with nano iDSD and my IEMS:  UM3X and Heir Audio 4.AiS.
  
 luckily probably won't need them with micro iDSD.


----------



## pokenguyen

Are there any software that supports DSD256 on Mac? I tried both Audirvana + and JRiver Media Center, only DSD128 is playable. JRiver Media Center can play DSD256 on Windows.


----------



## iFi audio

pokenguyen said:


> Are there any software that supports DSD256 on Mac? I tried both Audirvana + and JRiver Media Center, only DSD128 is playable. JRiver Media Center can play DSD256 on Windows.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This is because on OS X, there is no ASIO support.
  
 Core audio for now is limited to 384KHz, so no DSD256 via DOP.
  
 Thanks


----------



## lillion

well, I do have this combination of idsd nano and Senn HD 600
  
 while the idsd nano is fantastic for example with the 75Ohm AKG K280 parabolic (or the Q701 for that matter) and also with the V-Moda 100 (with all its flaws) or the Harman-Kardon BT, you have to turn the volume knob to at least 3 o'clock to get decent volume on the HD600. Even at full power it s just decently 'loud' and it seems to lack punch and bass.
 Even with classical music (e.g. Handel Messiah, Dunedin Consort, LINN, 24-88.4) it seems distant and a somehow lifeless. It s not really bad, but I was always like waiting for the music to really kick in and engage.
  
  
 So, while the idsd nano is a marvel that amazes me every day, to me it is not powerful enough for the Sennheiser HD 600.
 I'm sure the micro will!


----------



## koolas

lillion said:


> well, I do have this combination of idsd nano and Senn HD 600
> 
> while the idsd nano is fantastic for example with the 75Ohm AKG K280 parabolic (or the Q701 for that matter) and also with the V-Moda 100 (with all its flaws) or the Harman-Kardon BT, you have to turn the volume knob to at least 3 o'clock to get decent volume on the HD600. Even at full power it s just decently 'loud' and it seems to lack punch and bass.
> Even with classical music (e.g. Handel Messiah, Dunedin Consort, LINN, 24-88.4) it seems distant and a somehow lifeless. It s not really bad, but I was always like waiting for the music to really kick in and engage.
> ...




With Alpha Dogs iDSD also works very well up to 3 o'clock, and if you turn volume knob beyond that point only mids are louder, and heavy compression of dynamic range occurs.
I connect iDSD to Pan Am, but although Pan Am at 3 o'clock makes these play loud, some tubey distortion starts occurring. I was thinking about acquiring iCAN nano... What do you think guys?


----------



## pokenguyen

koolas said:


> With Alpha Dogs iDSD also works very well up to 3 o'clock, and if you turn volume knob beyond that point only mids are louder, and heavy compression of dynamic range occurs.
> I connect iDSD to Pan Am, but although Pan Am at 3 o'clock makes these play loud, some tubey distortion starts occurring. I was thinking about acquiring iCAN nano... What do you think guys?


 

 So 3 o'clock is the limit volume that iFi iDSD can drive well?


----------



## technobear

pokenguyen said:


> So 3 o'clock is the limit volume that iFi iDSD can drive well?




...with Alpha Dogs 

There are many parameters at play here:

i) impedance (ohms)

ii) efficiency/sensitivity (dB/mW)

iii) reactance (how much the impedance varies with frequency, particularly in the bass region)

The position of the volume (gain) control tells us very little.


----------



## koolas

Yes, so for example with my Momentums iDSD plays up to 100% volume perfectly. I also tried XBA-C10, and while from iDSD they didn't sound compressed, I'd say they need more juice than iDSD can provide.


----------



## maricius

koolas said:


> With Alpha Dogs iDSD also works very well up to 3 o'clock, and if you turn volume knob beyond that point only mids are louder, and heavy compression of dynamic range occurs.
> I connect iDSD to Pan Am, but although Pan Am at 3 o'clock makes these play loud, some tubey distortion starts occurring. I was thinking about acquiring iCAN nano... What do you think guys?


 
 Save up for something like a CL Duet!! I was planning on getting/stacking an iDSD nano with my Duet as a portable rig but here comes the iDSD micro making me wait and everything.


----------



## lillion

pokenguyen said:


> So 3 o'clock is the limit volume that iFi iDSD can drive well?


 

 I wouldn't say so.
 For example, the AKG Q701 sounds fine even beyond 3 o'clock. 
 However, impedance is much lower than on the Senns HD 600.
 So this may have an influence


----------



## iFi audio

*Nano/Micro iDSD Tutorial*
*Lossy file (MP31) transfer to DSD256/512*
  
 AMR/iFi is always seeking to make music more enjoyable. We are firm believers of keeping the music file original. In this instance however, we will make an exception: where lossy MP3 is already heavily compressed, it is worth converting to DSD. The only cost is a few moments of your time.
  
 From our listening trials, converting MP3s to DSD256/512 takes the _digital harshness_ out of the music and makes it more _analogue sounding_.
  
 The two pictures below illustrate what we are trying to sonically describe.
  
 The original MP3 (left) and converted to DSD (right).

  
 One is real. You might even meet her. 

 The other - is a mirage, unreal and unattainable no matter what.

 Do we want reality or unreality? You already have the former, so why not try the latter?
  
  
 and 
  
 For JRMC 19 and Foobar users, we have written a pdf that covers the installation of an ASIO-Proxy* to get more out of compressed MP3 music by converting it to DSD256/512.
  
 (*This "Meta Driver" sits between the playback software [J-River] and actual ASIO Driver [iFi Driver])
  
 The instructions covers the nano iDSD and the upcoming micro iDSD.
  
 However, if you have a DSD DAC, the same principle also applies.
  
 For the full instructions, we have to ask that you open a iFi support ticket (as we cannot upload to Head-Fi). 
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 and we will email both the JRMC and Foobar2K versions to you.
  
 We hope you enjoy reading this tutorial. You may just rediscover your lossy music collection!
   
  
  
  
  
  
*Important**: in the pdf, PLEASE go to the LAST PAGE and read the user notes first!  Or see below:*
  
  
*Note to users: *
*I.**We do not recommend converting lossless PCM tracks to DSD or altering lossless tracks. We recommend that they are played in their respective native format - PCM tracks remain PCM and DSD tracks remain DSD.*
  
*II.**We cannot provide any additional technical support on JMRC other than what has been covered in this tutorial. *
  
_III.__Please ensure that you are reasonably proficient at computer audio. We are not responsible for the changes you make to your computer audio setup!_
  
_IV.__This is only available for Windows as OS X runs only on Core Audio (not ASIO)__._
  
_V.__DSD has different gain levels to PCM. So after conversion to DSD, the audio will be a little quieter, how much, varies from one filter to another._
  
_VI.__Only 44.1/88.2/176.4 & 352.8 KHz tracks can be converted to DSD if "native" is selected in ASIO-Proxy for the iDSD nano/micro._
  
 VII._Native interface for now does not support 48__kHz-based sample rates for DSD, only DOP does. So if you have a lot of 96/192 material you want as DSD you need to use DoP and you are limited to DSD128 (nano) or DSD256 (micro). Alternatively, it is possible to upsample 48 to 88, 96 to 176, 192 to 352 OR downsample 48 to 44.1, 96 to 88.2, 192 to 176.4 and 384 to 352.8 etc._
  
References: This is an interesting read for DSD playback and for the challenges it brings on many platforms.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue69/dsd_pcm.htm

     [1] Includes AAC, MP3 & WMA etc…


----------



## Watcherq

Hi iFi,
    With the release of the iDSD Micro, will there be a new driver/firmware for the Nano?  I'm asking because of the quality of the sound I get when using JRiver to upsample to 2x and 4xDSD.  When I use DoP with 2xDSD, the sound is mostly fine.  However, when I switch over to 2xDSD or worse, 4xDSD, it sound has quite a bit of choppiness in it.  No doubt it may be due to my machine being a L640 Core 2 Duo i7 processor with JMark of 1982, but with 2xDSD, the load is only about 12-15%, Furthermore,DoP is supposed to have higher overhead, so I'm curious if there is a way to solve this rather than to replace my trusty laptop with a new one.
  
    Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

watcherq said:


> Hi iFi,
> With the release of the iDSD Micro, will there be a new driver/firmware for the Nano?  I'm asking because of the quality of the sound I get when using JRiver to upsample to 2x and 4xDSD.  When I use DoP with 2xDSD, the sound is mostly fine.  However, when I switch over to 2xDSD or worse, 4xDSD, it sound has quite a bit of choppiness in it.  No doubt it may be due to my machine being a L640 Core 2 Duo i7 processor with JMark of 1982, but with 2xDSD, the load is only about 12-15%, Furthermore,DoP is supposed to have higher overhead, so I'm curious if there is a way to solve this rather than to replace my trusty laptop with a new one.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Before anything else, try this as the first step.
  
 http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
  
 This looks at the loading on the different aspects of YOUR computer.
  
 Then open a support ticket and we'll take a look at it.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Thanks


----------



## Jeff-C

Fandabbydoosie, didn’t know what an Asio-Proxy was until now.
 
Seriously good computer audio knowledge base. Keep up the good work.
 
It makes me respect you guys more. I know you are really flexing your technical prowess and kudos for showing others the way – instead of usual, this dac chip is good. Yadda yadda yadda.


----------



## Watcherq

Done


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Before anything else, try this as the first step.
> 
> ...


 
 Done.  The latency chart seems ok, even when I try to max out the load.  The choppiness was present during the testing but the chart showed that it was fine.


----------



## iFi audio

watcherq said:


> Done
> Done.  The latency chart seems ok, even when I try to max out the load.  The choppiness was present during the testing but the chart showed that it was fine.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You need to send screenshots of your setups in JRMC to our tech guys. We will look through your settings and see what is the limiting factor/s.
  
 We assume your PC is stock (ie no upgrades) and you do not use it for anything other than computer audio - because if used for other things, then there is no chance to diagnose. We have customers who surf the Net, do MS Office, even use Photoshop! You get the gist.


----------



## Kalavere

New to the headphone/DAC scene, this is my first purchase. I'm very happy. 
  
 Looking at investing in a iUSB Power next, then the iDAC.


----------



## earwaxxer

watcherq said:


> Hi iFi,
> With the release of the iDSD Micro, will there be a new driver/firmware for the Nano?  I'm asking because of the quality of the sound I get when using JRiver to upsample to 2x and 4xDSD.  When I use DoP with 2xDSD, the sound is mostly fine.  However, when I switch over to 2xDSD or worse, 4xDSD, it sound has quite a bit of choppiness in it.  No doubt it may be due to my machine being a _*L640 Core 2 Duo i7 processor with JMark of 1982*_, but with 2xDSD, the load is only about 12-15%, Furthermore,DoP is supposed to have higher overhead, so I'm curious if there is a way to solve this rather than to replace my trusty laptop with a new one.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Your computer is too slow - you need a JMark around 3000 to do DSD reliably. CPU load has nothing to do with it. There are cache issues, speed of ram, etc. It shouldnt matter if you have other programs running in the background as long as you are not trying to do something crazy like edit video etc.


----------



## Watcherq

earwaxxer said:


> Your computer is too slow - you need a JMark around 3000 to do DSD reliably. CPU load has nothing to do with it. There are cache issues, speed of ram, etc. It shouldnt matter if you have other programs running in the background as long as you are not trying to do something crazy like edit video etc.


 
 I know it isn't fast but the issue is that it works fine, very smoothly when using DoP (which has higher overheads) but not with native.  Riddle me this.  I tried 4xDSD and it maxes out on single HT processor; it seems JRMC can only render in 1 thread.  However, on 2xDSD, it is only half the max load.


----------



## john57

This sounds like a classic example of a buffer under-run. This stuttering issue can be caused by many things. Sharing USB with other devices, bad cables, hub issues, background process.  If you set J.River buffering of 500ms with large buffers. Tried setting IFI ASIO buffers to the max and  extra safe.  Nothing is sharing the USB bus that the IFI Nano is on. Try memory playback setting in J.River. These are just few of the things you can try. A native 4xDSD file of 3 mins is about a bit more than 500megs and that far amount of data to transfer from the hard drive to the USB pipeline without stuttering. It is like  streaming a bit faster than Blue-ray video on USB. You doing the same thing when you converting to 4xDSD in realtime. The slowest J.Mark speed I have ever seen for DSD playback is 2500 reliably but it sounds like you are converting to 4xDSD in realtime. A JMark of 3000 or better is what the developers of J.River like to see for DSD playback. The J.Mark score is just a guide.
  
 If all fails you can try to use J.River offline conversion tool found under advance tools section of J.River. To see if you get better results.
  
 Yes with JRiver most of the audio processing is done with using just one thread. I like that because you will run into issues with micro stuttering like on my Ethernet port for DLNA which is set for load balancing and off loading for server needs but not good for streaming on my previous setup that was with a slower 4 core CPU. Sometimes you may run into issues with CPU parking and unparking in some cases.  With the 4xDSD you ran into the max of your CPU can handle in your case. Have you tried to turn off speed step in the BIOS if you have it?  Sounds like you still converting PCM to DSD. Have you tried using DSD files in bit streaming mode?
  
 With my old setup I was running into 31% load on the CPU but it was the spikes I was concerned about. Not a problem with copying files but near the edge of what my old setup can do with continuous data streaming.


----------



## maricius

kalavere said:


> New to the headphone/DAC scene, this is my first purchase. I'm very happy.
> 
> Looking at investing in a iUSB Power next, then the iDAC.




Go iUSB Power + iPurifier first if you feel it necessary but some prefer the nano iDSD over the iDAC even for PCM performance. I suggest skip the iUSB and iPurifier first, skip the iDAC completely, save a little more, and go straight to the iFi micro iDSD if you'll want a real upgrade.


----------



## sonixen

kalavere said:


> New to the headphone/DAC scene, this is my first purchase. I'm very happy.
> 
> Looking at investing in a iUSB Power next, then the iDAC.


 
  
 Do check also whether the micro idsd will fit your needs as well, as there are quite some overlap in features


----------



## Kalavere

maricius said:


> Go iUSB Power + iPurifier first if you feel it necessary but some prefer the nano iDSD over the iDAC even for PCM performance. I suggest skip the iUSB and iPurifier first, skip the iDAC completely, save a little more, and go straight to the iFi micro iDSD if you'll want a real upgrade.


 
 Some sterling advice, I had bought the Nano iDSD to use on the move, but I can see myself using it more on my desk than anywhere else so the Micro iDSD seems like a decent upgrade. Would the iUSBPower be the way to go after the Micro iDSD?


----------



## maricius

kalavere said:


> Some sterling advice, I had bought the Nano iDSD to use on the move, but I can see myself using it more on my desk than anywhere else so the Micro iDSD seems like a decent upgrade. Would the iUSBPower be the way to go after the Micro iDSD?



 


According to iFi on their micro iDSD thread, the iUSB Power will have much less noticeable improvement as the micro iDSD can already function directly from its battery while the computer would just be for the data and to charge the battery. iFi actually have a measured output on their website at the iUSB Power section comparing a LiPo battery and the iUSB Power. There is but a slight difference as compared to direct from the computer.


----------



## Kalavere

Sorry for the noob questions, this is all very new to me! So for all intents and purposes the iDSD would suffice for all my headphone needs? I just plan to use USB for output as I don't have a phono capable soundcard, it's purely a gaming card (Sound Blaster Zx), and i don't plan use it with anything but my PC.


----------



## ClieOS

kalavere said:


> Sorry for the noob questions, this is all very new to me! So for all intents and purposes the iDSD would suffice for all my headphone needs? I just plan to use USB for output as I don't have a phono capable soundcard, it's purely a gaming card (Sound Blaster Zx), and i don't plan use it with anything but my PC.


 
  
 That really depends on what you mean by 'headphone needs'. However, unless you have very demanding headphone, you should be alright with nano iDSD


----------



## maricius

kalavere said:


> Sorry for the noob questions, this is all very new to me! So for all intents and purposes the iDSD would suffice for all my headphone needs? I just plan to use USB for output as I don't have a phono capable soundcard, it's purely a gaming card (Sound Blaster Zx), and i don't plan use it with anything but my PC.



 


I don't even know how a soundcard works lol… these are external right? I just stick my USB DAC straight into my laptop, use a nice music player like Audirvana+ (lots of options, they do sound better than like iTunes due to exclusive access to the DAC, etc.) and both iDSDs are DAC/amps so I guess you're good with headphones if you're happy with the sound.


----------



## Kalavere

clieos said:


> That really depends on what you mean by 'headphone needs'. However, unless you have very demanding headphone, you should be alright with nano iDSD


 
  
 I'm unsure of iFi products and whether the Micro iDSD is the best sound I can get from their products for headphone use.
  
  


maricius said:


> I don't even know how a soundcard works lol… these are external right? I just stick my USB DAC straight into my laptop, use a nice music player like Audirvana+ (lots of options, they do sound better than like iTunes due to exclusive access to the DAC, etc.) and both iDSDs are DAC/amps so I guess you're good with headphones if you're happy with the sound.


 
  
 My sound card is used for gaming, it's internal, but has no coaxial out or phono, it's designed primarily for headphone use. I should think I'll probably upgrade to the Micro iDSD in the new few weeks and sit on that for a while.
  
 My eventual goal is to get something like the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies with a nice pair of B&W P7's or something of that calibre, I quite like the look of the Shiit Bitfrost and Lyr combo. But until I get my head around the minefield that is digital music, bit rates and what not, I won't be going too mad.
  
 Who knows, maybe I'll find iFi to be everything I need for my audio needs, but I am a bit of a compulsive upgrader and I like to try out different sounds and gadgets!


----------



## ClieOS

kalavere said:


> I'm unsure of iFi products and whether the Micro iDSD is the best sound I can get from their products for headphone use.


 
  
 So we are talking about the Micro and not the Nano? Well, no one know how the Micro iDSD sounds like since it isn't launched yet. But at least spec wise it is almost a monster and can drive just about everything except the most difficult headphone out there. Given my experience with iFi products so far, I do have confidence in their performance.


----------



## maricius

kalavere said:


> I'm unsure of iFi products and whether the Micro iDSD is the best sound I can get from their products for headphone use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


The micro iDSD has the most powerful amplifier in the Micro line (they're venturing into the Mini line of products soon which is going to be 100% desktop) and also the most versatile due to its 3 gain settings (can drive some of the most current demanding planar magnetic headphones and 3 sensitivity levels for the most sensitive and hiss-prone IEMs). It also features the most technically advance DAC iFi has produced to date. It should technically sound the best in both the DAC and headphone amp front but what sounds good for you is completely of preference. That being said, it's still being delivered to the first buyers. 

USB on the micro iDSD has jitter performance equal to coaxial jitter performance so coaxial would probably only be useful if say your DAP only outputs digital through coaxial out. Coaxial's only up to 24/192kHz performance though. I see you have a lot on your list and you should do some more reading on what you want. Personally I'm going for the micro iDSD and a HiFiMan HE-560 but again, I doubt I'll find a DAC upgrade in the WA7's DAC or in the Schiit Bifrost. A more powerful tube or hybrid desktop headphone amplifier would be an upgrade though for the HE-560. Lastly, I think you can do better than the B&W P7. Happy hunting!!


----------



## skeptic

Has there been any word on whether the micro idsd includes a linear regulated psu? 

I understand from other sites and posted o-scope measurements that the isub unit uses a somewhat noisy switching wallwart and that the output from the iusb is meaningfully improved by using something like a diy sigma11 to power it. I was surprised to read this since I thought the whole point of the iusb was extra clean power and a corresponding decrease in jitter on the usb input.


----------



## maricius

skeptic said:


> Has there been any word on whether the micro idsd includes a linear regulated psu?
> 
> I understand from other sites and posted o-scope measurements that the isub unit uses a somewhat noisy switching wallwart and that the output from the iusb is meaningfully improved by using something like a diy sigma11 to power it. I was surprised to read this since I thought the whole point of the iusb was extra clean power and a corresponding decrease in jitter on the usb input.


 
  
 I honestly don't know actually. Post the question and the concern on the micro iDSD thread!! iFi is likely to reply


----------



## Kalavere

clieos said:


> So we are talking about the Micro and not the Nano? Well, no one know how the Micro iDSD sounds like since it isn't launched yet. But at least spec wise it is almost a monster and can drive just about everything except the most difficult headphone out there. Given my experience with iFi products so far, I do have confidence in their performance.


 
  
 Ah, I had no idea it was unreleased! I currently have the Nano, I really like the sound and was looking for something with a bit more bang, the Micro seemed way go.
  
 This is probably an obscenely redundant question, but what's the ETA for the Micro iDSD?


----------



## john57

skeptic said:


> Has there been any word on whether the micro idsd includes a linear regulated psu?
> 
> I understand from other sites and posted o-scope measurements that the isub unit uses a somewhat noisy switching wallwart and that the output from the iusb is meaningfully improved by using something like a diy sigma11 to power it. I was surprised to read this since I thought the whole point of the iusb was extra clean power and a corresponding decrease in jitter on the usb input.


 
 The micro iDSD is still battery or USB power device. Just go to the micro iDSD thread.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-for-octa-adopters-eyes-only-page-97


----------



## maricius

kalavere said:


> Ah, I had no idea it was unreleased! I currently have the Nano, I really like the sound and was looking for something with a bit more bang, the Micro seemed way go.
> 
> This is probably an obscenely redundant question, but what's the ETA for the Micro iDSD?


 
  
 July 22  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't wait to get a hold of mine.


----------



## ClieOS

skeptic said:


> Has there been any word on whether the micro idsd includes a linear regulated psu?
> 
> I understand from other sites and posted o-scope measurements that the isub unit uses a somewhat noisy switching wallwart and that the output from the iusb is meaningfully improved by using something like a diy sigma11 to power it. I was surprised to read this since I thought the whole point of the iusb was extra clean power and a corresponding decrease in jitter on the usb input.


 
  
 No, it doesn't have a linear regulated psu. It will run on either USB or battery power.
  
 To be frank, I never heard any noise from the switch mode PSU packed with other iFi gear. While it is not as quiet as a very expensive linear regulated PSU, it is still far cleaner sounding then most switch mode PSU out there, and definitely well under the audible range. Check this out: http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/ULNAdapter.pdf
  
 Also it is worth noting that the ULN wall adapter doesn't power the iUSB directly. There is extra circuit inside iUSB to further regulate and filter the 9V from the ULN adapter down to the 5V line for USB power.


----------



## Kalavere

What a result! I might see if I can pick one up on Tuesday!


----------



## skeptic

john57 said:


> The micro iDSD is still battery or USB power device. Just go to the micro iDSD thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-for-octa-adopters-eyes-only-page-97




Thanks John! It is really awesome how they have essentially provided a design log in that thread with a TOC at the top. 

Looks like it isn't a linear supply and relies on switching converters but the quoted noise of only a few microvolts is very impressive. I think AMB says that a sigma11 has about 12microvolts of noise unloaded, so the micro idsd appears to top that at least in terms of noise. Will be very interested to follow this product and read up on user impressions post release.


----------



## john57

The global launch has been rescheduled to July 28 due to last minute code changes which is already finished and the units are already being shipped to the distributors as we speak. That is my current understanding.


----------



## maricius

john57 said:


> The global launch has been rescheduled to July 28 due to last minute code changes which is already finished and the units are already being shipped to the distributors as we speak. That is my current understanding.


 
  
 28?? I knew it was moved due to the increase in its power output but I thought it was moved to 22… damn it… my bad guys ONE MORE WEEK… ughh… I got my own hopes up with misinformation


----------



## technobear

maricius said:


> kalavere said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, I had no idea it was unreleased! I currently have the Nano, I really like the sound and was looking for something with a bit more bang, the Micro seemed way go.
> ...






kalavere said:


> What a result! I might see if I can pick one up on Tuesday!




The micro iDSD launches on July 28th.

This would appear to be a definite date as the first units have left the factory.


----------



## john57

maricius said:


> 28?? I knew it was moved due to the increase in its power output but I thought it was moved to 22… damn it… my bad guys ONE MORE WEEK… ughh… I got my own hopes up with misinformation


 
 Yes another week.. I am waiting on mine also. When IFI increased the power output it was decided that code changes will be needed. IFI even show a small sample of the code here on Head-Fi.


----------



## Watcherq

john57 said:


> This sounds like a classic example of a buffer under-run. This stuttering issue can be caused by many things. Sharing USB with other devices, bad cables, hub issues, background process.  If you set J.River buffering of 500ms with large buffers. Tried setting IFI ASIO buffers to the max and  extra safe.  Nothing is sharing the USB bus that the IFI Nano is on. Try memory playback setting in J.River. These are just few of the things you can try. A native 4xDSD file of 3 mins is about a bit more than 500megs and that far amount of data to transfer from the hard drive to the USB pipeline without stuttering. It is like  streaming a bit faster than Blue-ray video on USB. You doing the same thing when you converting to 4xDSD in realtime. The slowest J.Mark speed I have ever seen for DSD playback is 2500 reliably but it sounds like you are converting to 4xDSD in realtime. A JMark of 3000 or better is what the developers of J.River like to see for DSD playback. The J.Mark score is just a guide.
> 
> If all fails you can try to use J.River offline conversion tool found under advance tools section of J.River. To see if you get better results.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for you advice.  Firstly, the latest version of JRMC seems (not sure) to reduce the stutter.  Yes, playing from memory too reduces it.  As for USB loading, it doesn't seem to be an issue since 1) DoP has higher overheads (when compared to Native 2xDSD) and 2) when streaming DSD256/4xDSD, there is no problem and is very smooth.  As for USB bus, there is only the nano iDSD; no other USB port is connected at all.
  
 I agree with the buffer underrun diagnosis.  What I don't understand is why DoP is fine while native stutters.
  
 In any case, I will be upgrading from the machine in about 6 weeks time; I've ordered the i5/8GB version of the Surface Pro 3.  Let see how that baby performs.


----------



## ljbrandt

koolas said:


> I have noticed the biggest difference in the way violin sounds. In the PCM mode they sounded constrained by some plastic cage, while in DSD mode they sounded unconstrained and very clean. It didn't really matter if source material was DSD or PCM converted on the fly to DSD, I heard no difference what so ever. I also couldn't hear any difference between 96kHz and 352kHz PCM - they both sounded to me the same. The difference was only audible between iDSD being physically in PCM mode or DSD mode. In this tests I used Alpha Dogs powered by Pan Am. These two actually couple very nice with iDSD.


 
  
 Curious, but how do you use the iDSD in DSD mode with PCM content?  I'd like to do the same to produce the best SQ.


----------



## koolas

ljbrandt said:


> Curious, but how do you use the iDSD in DSD mode with PCM content?  I'd like to do the same to produce the best SQ.




One very good player is for Linux: http://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html
The SQ in real-time PCM-to-DSD256 conversion from that guy is stunning!

Other choice is Windows and Foobar2000 http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000
The SQ in this configuration is very good, but I think HQPlayer under Linux does it even better.


----------



## Dixter

JRiver is another good one to use with the iDSD


----------



## terance

Hey guys!
  
 Just picked up a Nano iDSD and I really like it.
  
 My only issue is that it is waaaay to loud with my Focal Spirit Professionals.  If I try to go any lower, the device will click off, but any higher and it's borderline uncomfortable.
  
 I remember reading something about a line attenuator that ifi sold, but i can't find anything on their website about it.  Any ideas?
  
 Thanks guys,


----------



## jexby

For the pair of external cable attenuator dongles, contact an official reseller of iFi audio products-
 received mine from Avatar Acoustics.


----------



## terance

jexby said:


> For the pair of external cable attenuator dongles, contact an official reseller of iFi audio products-
> received mine from Avatar Acoustics.


 
 Fantastic, thanks dude!


----------



## john57

Another good tip if you using a PC with J.River is always set power saving settings into high performance mode. Since mine is always plugged in I have no reason to use balanced mode when converting to 4xDSD. No sense to save a few pennies when you spend all the money on a new high performance machine just to make it go less than full speed. This will help to keep all the PC bus data lines at full speed for the buffers. I have done this for a long time.


----------



## RadioWonder737

maricius said:


> kalavere said:
> 
> 
> > Some sterling advice, I had bought the Nano iDSD to use on the move, but I can see myself using it more on my desk than anywhere else so the Micro iDSD seems like a decent upgrade. Would the iUSBPower be the way to go after the Micro iDSD?
> ...


 
The iFi response to this question...


semeniub said:


> Does this mean that I won't need my iPurifier, iUSBPower, and split USB cable anymore?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Some background, in descending order of impact (see brackets for equivalent hifi-examples):
  
  
 1. iUSB Power = PS audio mains regenerator (pure, clean mains)
  
 2. Gemini = separate audio+power cables you don’t twist ICs and PCs together in hifi system?)
  
 3. iPurifier = audio + power filter (eg mains filter, but in this device for audio as well)
  
 Tech Notes here for more exhaustive reading: http://ifi-audio.com/tech-notes/
  
  
 So as you can see, they all perform different tasks. Fundamentally, USB was not originally designed for high-quality audio playback.

 The micro iDSD has the iPurifier built-in. Please read previous post on Super Duper feature 2.2 (no point to repeat here).
  
  
Analogy
 If you have a Ferrari (the micro iDSD), normal USB power is the equivalent of putting Tesco Unleaded in.
  
 With the work we have done and if you run it on internal battery and with its internal iPurifier, it is the equivalent of putting in Shell Super.
  
 But if you run on USB power and use the iUSB, Gemini and iPurifier, you are putting in Shell Nitro.
  
 There is always no harm in doing the best that one can do. But with the case of the micro iDSD, it will not be as large as with another DAC.
  
 Thanks

Edited by iFi audio - 7/16/14 at 6:22am


----------



## maricius

radiowonder737 said:


> There is always no harm in doing the best that one can do. *But with the case of the micro iDSD, it will not be as large as with another DAC.*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edited by iFi audio - 7/16/14 at 6:22am


 
  
 Exactly!!


----------



## jexby

FWIW,
  
 regarding nano iDSD and a Schiit Wyrd combo, 
 I just posted some findings here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/724519/schiit-decrapifier-released-usb-power-isolator/30#post_10736754


----------



## bpeng

Anyone know if the recharging time of the Nano is the same whether it's on or off? I.e., assume that you plugged it into a USB port while it was off so it starts charging, and then you either leave it off or turn it on. Is recharging time the same either way?
  
 It's beneficial to leave a DAC on all the time. One study (I forget where I saw this or what DAC it was using) showed it took 24 hours of continuous power-up for a DAC to reach minimum jitter.
  
 So I would like to leave the Nano on while charging, but if this doubles the recharge time that won't work.
  
 Thanks,
 Mike


----------



## Kalavere

bpeng said:


> Anyone know if the recharging time of the Nano is the same whether it's on or off? I.e., assume that you plugged it into a USB port while it was off so it starts charging, and then you either leave it off or turn it on. Is recharging time the same either way?
> 
> It's beneficial to leave a DAC on all the time. One study (I forget where I saw this or what DAC it was using) showed it took 24 hours of continuous power-up for a DAC to reach minimum jitter.
> 
> ...


 
 It's a 1400 mAh battery I believe. It doesn't take long to charge, a USB port puts out 500mAh, so it'll take a while to charge compared to a 1 or 2 amp wall charger, but being on or off will make very little difference. I don't notice a difference in charging time.


----------



## johncarm

kalavere said:


> It's a 1400 mAh battery I believe. It doesn't take long to charge, a USB port puts out 500mAh, so it'll take a while to charge compared to a 1 or 2 amp wall charger, but being on or off will make very little difference. I don't notice a difference in charging time.


 
 I'm interested in this question. How long have you noticed a full charge takes? The thing is, it can't use the full current draw from the port as some power is needed to operate the USB connector and more power is needed to power the whole thing if it's on. Plus the charging circuit might be deliberately slow to preserve battery life (quick charging them may compromise life, at least it does in certain types of batteries).


----------



## earwaxxer

The only way I can get my Nano to fully charge is with some high amps on the charging side (I use a Sony CycleEnergy battery pack) it does 3.6amp max at 5v. It still takes it some hours to charge from dead. Most of the time, a top off takes less than an hour, and the pack will sense when charge is complete and shut off. From my experience, the laptop USB port will never fully charge the battery. No biggie. I'm just happy as **** about how good the Nano sounds with battery.
  
 On another topic re. said Nano. I did some experimenting today with my new Led Zeppelin remasters. First of all - the Zep 1,2,3 albums are of course legendary, but they were also recorded loud, distorted (over-driven tubes of course) and pretty damn close to clipping, but back in the analog days its all good. Its that 'live' sound that everyone was wanting to capture on their record. That kind of distortion does not translate well in digital.
  
 Specifically on Led Zep ll, track 2 'What is and what Should never be", at about 1min 15sec into it when the song starts gettin it done, there is tons of 'effects' all hitting your ears at the same time (reverb, fuzz, tube distortion, what could be bass clipping,  etc), I mean Jimmy Page can chime in here, its a balls to the walls recording.
  
 So, I was a bit blown away by how good it sounded, but I was having a little trouble 'sorting it all out' so to speak. It sounded a wee bit 'off' when it all got a bit loud and crazy. Thats always a good opportunity to play with the software, hardware etc. That way I can focus on the exact sound(s) that are tweaking me. So the albums are redbood, ripped to WAV to my laptop, and I'm using JRiver 19. So I flipped back and forth between playing it native, to using JRiver to upsample first in PCM to the max sample rate 352,800khz, then to 4xDSD.
  
 Upsampling PCM to higher rates did not provide a noticable difference, in terms of the particular sound that I was focusing on. The 4xDSD did. Not 'huge', but a smidgin more 'believable', and a bit more like what I would expect to hear with a good vinyl rendition.  - So there you go. Check for yourselves.


----------



## johncarm

earwaxxer said:


> The only way I can get my Nano to fully charge is with some high amps on the charging side (I use a Sony CycleEnergy battery pack) it does 3.6amp max at 5v. It still takes it some hours to charge from dead. Most of the time, a top off takes less than an hour, and the pack will sense when charge is complete and shut off. From my experience, the laptop USB port will never fully charge the battery. No biggie. I'm just happy as **** about how good the Nano sounds with battery.
> 
> On another topic re. said Nano. I did some experimenting today with my new Led Zeppelin remasters. First of all - the Zep 1,2,3 albums are of course legendary, but they were also recorded loud, distorted (over-driven tubes of course) and pretty damn close to clipping, but back in the analog days its all good. Its that 'live' sound that everyone was wanting to capture on their record. That kind of distortion does not translate well in digital.
> 
> ...


 
 I've read that those Lithium-Polymer batteries can be damaged from over-discharge. Have you ever left your Nano on too long so that it wasn't even showing the red light, just totally blacked out?


----------



## earwaxxer

No - I havent run it down to nothing, but the iDSD seems to get strange when the battery gets low. -  I think that it is true, in general, to not run LiPo's down to nothing. As a hobbiest I have been using battery power in several of my kits amps, DAC's etc. Its hard to go back to mains power when you get a good taste of that clean power!


----------



## mink70

If anyone is interested in a mint Nano, I'm selling mine. Shoot me a PM if interested.


----------



## earwaxxer

Poor neglected Nano! - There are many of us who still love you!


----------



## koolas

For 150 GBP there is absolutely nothing you can complain about! You just have to love this little cheesy aluminum can of fun 

BTW Could someone do comparison with Yulong D18 maybe?


----------



## johncarm

earwaxxer said:


> No - I havent run it down to nothing, but the iDSD seems to get strange when the battery gets low. -  I think that it is true, in general, to not run LiPo's down to nothing. As a hobbiest I have been using battery power in several of my kits amps, DAC's etc. Its hard to go back to mains power when you get a good taste of that clean power!


 
 Yeah, I use a battery to power my other DAC. Power is so critical, clean, quiet power. This is why power conditioners are such a big deal, but can't touch batteries.


----------



## iFi audio

Does the nano iDSD measure: Good, Bad or Ugly?

  
 Some of you have enquired as to how the nano iDSD measures* – under conditions similar to those by recognised industry bodies/magazines.
  
 The following are our laboratory measurements of the behavior of the iFi nano iDSD using the Audio Precision System Two.
 Measurements conducted                      THD                                   Comment                                                                
 By iFi                                                 0.02%                                   -
 By audio magazine ‘A’                            0.03% to 0.05%                   Perfectly acceptable small variance
 By audio magazine ‘B’                            0.15%                                 Measurement error/different methodology?


*Notes:
i. Measurements though scientific and objective, are subject to errors and honest mistakes.
ii. There is no scientifically proven link between “better” measured performance automatically equating to better sound.
Therefore, please bear these points in mind when you read THIS and ANY other measurements article. As always, listen for yourself and let your ears be the judge. Measurements are just that, measurements.
  

 Well, we have crunched through a bunch of numbers and summarised the 4 key ones most often referred to.

  
Short answer: it measures pretty well for its class. There are no numbers that are untowards.

Long answer: Please follow the link below. The in-depth blog is here:

 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/does-the-nano-idsd-measure-good-bad-or-ugly/

 We hope you enjoy reading it.


----------



## johncarm

ifi audio said:


> Does the nano iDSD measure: Good, Bad or Ugly?
> 
> 
> Some of you have enquired as to how the nano iDSD measures* – under conditions similar to those by recognised industry bodies/magazines.
> ...


 
 Of course some of us treat the question of how it *sounds* as more important than how it measures, and in that regard it excels.


----------



## semeniub

I just tried something most wouldn't with their nano iDSD, and I connected an extreme USB cable (TotalDAC D1 USB cable) to my nano iDSD + iCAN combo. It was then shocking how good the nano's could sound - there was just fabulous depth and punch that you would not expect for their price range. Quite impressive!


----------



## jexby

FWIW-
 if anyone wants a mint condition nano iDSD + iFi attenuators (2), my FS posting just went up in the Amplification thread.


----------



## johncarm

semeniub said:


> I just tried something most wouldn't with their nano iDSD, and I connected an extreme USB cable (TotalDAC D1 USB cable) to my nano iDSD + iCAN combo. It was then shocking how good the nano's could sound - there was just fabulous depth and punch that you would not expect for their price range. Quite impressive!


 
 Oh yes, the USB cable makes a big difference on the iNano. I've heard a modified Nano by K Works Audio, sold by dealer Brilliant Zen Audio, and using a cable provided by K Works totally blows away the stock cable. The K Works cable has Litz data wires, ferrites and caps to clean the power and other things.


----------



## semeniub

johncarm said:


> Oh yes, the USB cable makes a big difference on the iNano. I've heard a modified Nano by K Works Audio, sold by dealer Brilliant Zen Audio, and using a cable provided by K Works totally blows away the stock cable. The K Works cable has Litz data wires, ferrites and caps to clean the power and other things.


 
 It really makes me curious how far up the DAC food chain $$$ the nano iDSD can compete when fed through a really good cable.


----------



## bpeng

Here is a warning about sensitivity to static electricity in the iDSD.
  
 I'm a dealer for a modified iDSD (the mod work is done by K Works Audio) and one of mine died without warning. It behaves as though it's getting power but no data from the USB port. The charging light goes on when you plug it in, and when it's unplugged and you turn it on the green light blinks. But as soon as you plug it in, the light goes out. The computer doesn't recognize the presence of any device.
  
 Igor at K Works inspected all the solder joints from the USB jack to the XMOS chip and found nothing amiss. It appears that the XMOS chip has probably died.
  
 We have made a couple of observations with regard to static electricity. In the stock Nano, it is sensitive to static discharge causing a reset of the unit (it will stop playing). Igor changed the internal grounding scheme so that static into the case will be discharged into the grounded shield line of the USB cable and that stopped the "reset play" problem. The second observation is that if you plug in the USB cable on the computer end first and secondly to the Nano, it offers some protection to the Nano as it will be grounded to the computer at the moment it is plugged in. I have always done the reverse with USB devices (plug cable into the device first, then into the computer).


----------



## john57

It has been my experience that DAC's can be very fickle and easy to blow out. I have three DAC's including a Sonic Frontier unit that blew when I was updating the USB driver on the computer while it was plugged in. It was a frustrating expensive experience. Any mods done to a device runs the risk of damage later. My guess is that there is is usually a USB transceiver before the XMOS chip that can give up as well. Since the Nano appears to been exposed to static discharge that could have weaken the unit. I have not run into this situation with either of my IFI DAC's and the case ground design might have been intentional set to float.  I checked my Nano and the case ground is floating in relationship to the RCA grounds as well. 


bpeng said:


> I'm a dealer for a modified iFi Nano (the mod work is done by K Works Audio) and one of mine up and died without warning. It behaves as though it's getting power but no data from the USB port. The charging light goes on when you plug it in, and when it's unplugged and you turn it on the green light blinks. But as soon as you plug it in, the light goes out. The computer doesn't recognize the presence of any device.
> 
> Igor at K Works inspected all the solder joints from the USB jack to the XMOS chip and found nothing amiss. It appears that the XMOS chip has probably died.
> 
> ...


----------



## iFi audio

bpeng said:


> I'm a dealer for a modified iFi Nano (the mod work is done by K Works Audio) and one of mine up and died without warning. It behaves as though it's getting power but no data from the USB port. The charging light goes on when you plug it in, and when it's unplugged and you turn it on the green light blinks. But as soon as you plug it in, the light goes out. The computer doesn't recognize the presence of any device.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,

  
 You may have to send the unit to us for inspection.

  
 Please open a support ticket here:
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/

  
 It goes without saying that the warranty has been invalidated - because of the obvious modifications.

  
 Like any normal electronic product, the nano PCB is sensitive to static electricity. Performing modifications without suitable anti-static precautions may damage/degrade parts which may fail later.

  
 As there is very little that can be sensibly modified with any real improvement in sound quality over the stock unit we strongly advise against any such modifications.

  
 Hacking/jumping circuit traces etc is strongly advised against.

  
 This is a machine precision-soldered product on a minute PCB. Hand-soldering unfortunately runs a greater risk of damage and the parts quality is already up there - as you will have seen on the Crowd-Design thread for the micro iDSD. And of course by listening to the nano iDSD, it punches well above its class.

  
 Hope this clarifies.

  
 Thanks.


----------



## bpeng

iFi,
  
 Let me make clear that we think the iDSD is a wonderful product, with stunning sound for the price.
  
 We do understand that mods voids warranties, and we offer support ourselves on all modded units, so our customers can be assured of that.
  
 What you are saying applies to experimenters, but Igor is a seasoned designer who has performed hundreds of custom modifications and only ever improved the quality and robustness of the product. Taking precautions against static discharge while working is of course one of the more elementary and obvious things he does. He thoroughly studies the purpose of every component and circuit before undertaking any changes. The affected unit worked brilliantly for some time before the problem occurred. The exposure to static came _after_ the unit was in a shielded box but still using the original grounding scheme, not while on the workbench and on a static dissipative mat. The fix was applied after this problem came to light during burn-in.
  
 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## iFi audio

bpeng said:


> iFi,
> 
> 
> First, K Works and I offer a warranty on all modded units, so our customers can be assured of that.
> ...


 

  
 Hi,
  
 Thanks for your comment and background on Igor - much appreciated.
  
 We cannot comment on the working practices during modification. We merely point out that static damage may cause a delayed failure and that they must be observed.
  
 The XMOS sub-system used in the iDSD nano has an excellent reliability record. Quite a few have been sold so we know this stat quite well!
  
 We have no particular comments on the modifications, except one point:
 'there is no single capacitor of just about any price which can function as well as a carefully chosen bypass combination.'
  
 At AMR/iFi we are well aware of this and we therefore incorporate bypassing combinations that are tuned on a network analyser and incorporate the actual PCB and incorporate part of the bypassing capacitance into the PCB.
  
 Adding any additional parts to this system at the very best has no negative impact. Changing for example the electrolytic capacitors which have a deliberately selected ESR to lower impedance will change the correct damping for the circuit and may lead to resonance problems at RF.
  
 Without a full PCB redesign using many more layers to improve the "built-in" capacitance it is simply not possible to further improve. Without having full access to the design specific of each and every capacitor in the design (including those build into the PCB design) any change may make thing worse more often than better.
  
 We design and manufacture from the ground-up. iFi is owned by Abbingdon Music Reseach - so there is some quite serious industrial design going on and if you have a moment and do not mind, please take a look at the Crowd-Designed thread
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119
  
 and that should re-assure you and our customers that we do go to quite extremes.
  
 We hope this sheds more light on why and how we do what we do and why our position is what it is.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## bpeng

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your comment and background on Igor - much appreciated.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not surprised you go to these lengths because the stock iDSD is truly a great product.
  
 Mike


----------



## iFi audio

bpeng said:


> I'm not surprised you go to these lengths because the stock iDSD is truly a great product.
> 
> 
> Mike


 

 Thanks Mike,
  
 Really appreciated.
  
 If you are at RMAF by any chance, you are most welcome by the iFi table in the centre opposite Audeze.
  
 One or two reps will be there.


----------



## johncarm

I can testify that the K Works modded iDSD takes it far to the next level. I have a stock iDSD and I heard the K Works mod at Mike's place. The setup wasn't the same so I can't wait to borrow a modded iDSD and try it with my setup, but judging from what I've heard I would say the mod sounds close to or better than my Auralic Vega. And that's for 1/3 the price. The stock unit is very good too but doesn't quite compete with multi-thousand dollar DACs like the mod does, and the mod is so small too, barely larger than the stock iDSD. Still a portable unit.


----------



## shaolin95

Hi all!
 I was wondering how you think the Nano iDSD compares to the FiiO E18.
 I sold my FiiO and was going to buy it again but this Nano iDSD caught my eye. I will be using with an Android phone.
 Do you think it will improve at all over the FiiO or do I need to save for the Micro iDSD to get a real jump in quality?


----------



## SubSTI

Strange thing just happened:
 Playing the Nano on my laptop via battery (turned it on before attaching to USB)
 Suddenly stopped playing after a couple of hours
 I assume the battery was drained and wouldn't start charging automatically, but the lights were flashing red/white
 I turned it off and reattached to USB
 Blue light comes up (charging)
 Turned it on again and put the music back on, light turns green and yellow, corresponding the sample rate, but no sound via headphone or line-out.....
 What could be the problem here?
  
 ---Update---
 After keeping it on charge for half an hour or so the sound came back as well. Strange behavior however...


----------



## artheo

shaolin95 said:


> Hi all!
> I was wondering how you think the Nano iDSD compares to the FiiO E18.
> I sold my FiiO and was going to buy it again but this Nano iDSD caught my eye. I will be using with an Android phone.
> Do you think it will improve at all over the FiiO or do I need to save for the Micro iDSD to get a real jump in quality?


 
 I am also interested to know how it compares sonically to Fiio E18 with files up to 24bit/96Khz. I am not interested in DSD.
 I 've never had any of them but I want to buy one.


----------



## shaolin95

artheo said:


> I am also interested to know how it compares sonically to Fiio E18 with files up to 24bit/96Khz. I am not interested in DSD.
> I 've never had any of them but I want to buy one.


 
 I got this reply for that question from a very respected member which I will not name as it was on private message just in case

  


> I think as an all-in-one unit, E18 is probably better than iDSD / iCAN nano. iDSD nano is really more of a USB DAC than it is a headphone amp and iCAN is of course just an headphone amp. On the other hand, E18 is a bit of both and quite good at either. If you were to get both iDSD and iCAN together, might as well save for a bit mroe and get the iDSD micro instead. From a budget POV, E18 makes for better sense. For overall performance, I think E18 is still well compared to iDSD / iCAN nano. It is not like you will gain a huge jump of SQ by going for the iDSD / iCAN nano.


 
 So after exchanging messages, the iDSD micro is the one I will save for as that will be a much better jump in quality.

 Regards


----------



## donaldj68

Well.. just got some time finally to start finding the options that the iFi Nano would allow me to experiment with...
  
 First up was the connection to one of my Windows PC's via USB and listening to my collection with the Jriver player.. Pretty cool stuff.
 Have yet to experiment with converting my PCM files to DSD , but everything I read looks like another adventure to enjoy.
  
 Next up was trying to get my Apple Ipad ver 4 (I think) and after making a quick run to Best Buy to get ripped for the Lightening to USB Camera Adapter, I am now listening to my music collection thru the IPad ( using the Audio Station software from Synology) into the Nano and out via headphones to my newly acquired Sennheiser HD598 ... again way cool.. and it couldn't have been easier.. just connecting the Apple adapter to the Nano to my headphones and I was off and running ( well not actually running but ..)
  
 I like the option via Ipad since I get a good look at my music options on a big screen and then I can be sitting in the living room ( or wherever in my house) and have access to good tunes while reading email.. browsing this great site for new things to buy, or playing one of my latest game addictions
  
 So, now.. what to do with my Schiit stack (Magni/Modi) currently being used to access the music library (via SOtm SMS 100 mini server).. hmm there has to be another place in the house to make use of it..such problems (lol)
  
 Thanks again to this great site for giving me more ideas and more purchases to make
  
 Don J
  
 PS.. any suggestions for another headphone option (recent purchases were Sennheiser HD598 and PSB M4U2)  for me would be appreciated.. not looking for the best money can buy but I am willing to listen to ideas (especially since I am considering going to RMAF in October to maybe(?) see what I need (!!) next


----------



## john57

Going to RMAF is a good place to check out headphones and associated equipment. The CANJAM will be the largest to date.


----------



## ClieOS

Posted my nano iDSD + nano iCAN + iPurifier impression here, in case anyone is interested: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-nano-idsd/reviews/11496


----------



## pokenguyen

Can I use Amp with 3.5mm input with Nano iDSD? Will I suffer double-amp effect?


----------



## maricius

pokenguyen said:


> Can I use Amp with 3.5mm input with Nano iDSD? Will I suffer double-amp effect?




It's only double amping if you use the 3.5mm output of the iDSD. Look for an RCA to 3.5mm cable as your interconnect!!


----------



## ClieOS

pokenguyen said:


> Can I use Amp with 3.5mm input with Nano iDSD? Will I suffer double-amp effect?


 
  
  


maricius said:


> It's only double amping if you use the 3.5mm output of the iDSD. Look for an RCA to 3.5mm cable as your interconnect!!


 
  
 The 3.5mm and the RCA are internally connected, if I am correct, therefore double amping is unavoidable. However, double amping isn't nearly as evil as many make it to be. As long as the SNR on the source (iDSD nano in this case) is high, double amping is fine. Just remember to turn iDSD nano to max when you double amp it.


----------



## LoryWiv

I appreciate all the great info. on smartphone and tablet / computer source use. I am itching to try this on my PC with FooBar. I also do a lot of portable listening with a DAP and am ready to pull the trigger on the new ibasso.. Can the Nano i-DSD accept digital input from an ibasso DX90 coax output as source? If so, what cabling is needed....and would it likely improve the DX90's unamped sound?
  
 Thanks for any info.


----------



## iFi audio

> Originally Posted by *maricius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's only double amping if you use the 3.5mm output of the iDSD. Look for an RCA to 3.5mm cable as your interconnect!!
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, but both are technically incorrect comments.
  
 Yes, the iDSD nano directs the same signal to either headphone out or RCA Connectors.
  
  
 However, there is no so-called 'double amping' happening as the Output of the iDSD nano uses a single Chip, which combines a balanced (4 Channel) attenuator, and a Output Amplifier. With the volume control at max the stepped attenuator is in effect bypassed, the output amplifier is capable of driving headphones directly, so it can drive level loads with ease.
  
 So external amplifiers (including the iCAN nano) can be added to the iDSD nano with having negative effects of 'double amping'.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

So the same chip is both the headphone driver as well as the analog output stage (summing up the +/- signals to single end) of the DAC, am I right?


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> So the same chip is both the headphone driver as well as the analog output stage (summing up the +/- signals to single end) of the DAC, am I right?


 

 Correct!


----------



## vomvos

Can anyone confirm that it works flawlessly using Nexus 5 and USB Audio Pro Player?
 I am in the quest for an android smartphone. Moto G also in consideration.
 Thank you


----------



## h1f1add1cted

vomvos said:


> Can anyone confirm that it works flawlessly using Nexus 5 and USB Audio Pro Player?
> I am in the quest for an android smartphone. Moto G also in consideration.
> Thank you


 

 I'm also very interested to use the nano iDSD with a Android smartphone with USB Audio Player PRO.


----------



## iFi audio

vomvos said:


> Can anyone confirm that it works flawlessly using Nexus 5 and USB Audio Pro Player?
> I am in the quest for an android smartphone. Moto G also in consideration.
> Thank you


 

  
 Hi,
  
 Open a support ticket here and we'll email through the tech info on working with Androids.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Please bear in mind that the market is very wide and so we will do our utmost to provide the background information - but best check with the guys at UAPP.


----------



## SubSTI

vomvos said:


> Can anyone confirm that it works flawlessly using Nexus 5 and USB Audio Pro Player?
> I am in the quest for an android smartphone. Moto G also in consideration.
> Thank you


 
 Motorola Moto G 8GB 4G (latest model with microSD card and 4G support) running on 4.4.3 - USB OTG recognizes USB flash drives - USB OTG with IFI Nano iDSD does require USB Audio Player Pro, but works.
 USB OTG -> non powered USB HUB -> USB flash drive and IFI Nano iDSD  is a no go, both flash drive and iDSD are not recognized.


----------



## iFi audio

substi said:


> USB OTG -> non powered USB HUB -> USB flash drive and IFI Nano iDSD  is a no go, both flash drive and iDSD are not recognized.


 

 Hi,

  
 As implemented on Android, USB Hubs are unlikely to work with USB-OTG. Sorry!

  
 Our latest test platform for Androids consists of:

  
 Sony Xperia Z Ultra
 USB Audio Player Pro Software
 Generic OTG adapter
 several Kingston Class 10 64G micro SDHC Card's filled with DSD, DSD128, DSD256 and Hi-Rez PCM

  
 iDSD nano or iDSD micro (with necessary adapters)

  
 Noise Cancelling travel headphones (mobile)
 Fostex T(L)-50RP magnetic planar Headphones

  
 The Xperia Z Ultra has a powerful CPU to keep and enough internal storage that the SD Card can be used strictly as Music (or Video) storage.

  
 While DSD playback on UAPP was not so stable, the latest version we are testing (1.3.2) plays DSD (up to DSD256 on iDSD micro) stable and of course any PCM file we have been throwing at it, as long as they are stored on Class 10 SDHC cards.

  
 The latest version of UAPP also supports playing music from Network drives, however on wireless networks going for Hi-Rez quickly chokes on a lack of network bandwidth.

  
 The combination of Noise Cancelling Headphones, iDSD nano and Xperia ZUltrais great for travelling, the nano fits into the headphone case.

  
 The combination with iDSD micro and modified Fostex Planars makes for an easily "luggable" high end system that can take on a lot of super high end headphone systems.

  
 Hope this sheds more light on this subject.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

*@iFi audio*
   
 

 Thanks, do you know if e.g. a Samsung S3 (or the newer ones S4 / S5) can use the nano iDSD with Android limited output 16 bit/48 kHz support for normal apps like Spotify? I know to use HiRes 24bit or DSD you need UAPP, but is the nano iDSD usable in low Android music standards without UAPP?


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> *@iFi audio*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As far as we know, music on Android via external DAC's needs USB Audio Player/Recorder Pro.
  
  
 Reason is, USB Audio under Android is fundamentally flawed.
  
 Host mode is essential, but Android does not use ALSA but it's own Audio Stack, which knows next to zero about USB.
  
 But of course try it and let us know as Android is a wide as it is long.


----------



## Textfeud

Anybody tried these with Grado RS1i?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I have only tried the nano iDSD + nano iCAN combo with my Grado RS2i but, I will try tomorrow how the nano iDSD will act 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In general it sounds aswesome. The FiiO X3 + nano iCAN sounds less brillant, as the nano iDSD + nano iCAN by the way.


----------



## Textfeud

h1f1add1cted said:


> I have only tried the nano iDSD + nano iCAN combo with my Grado RS2i but, I will try tomorrow how the nano iDSD will act
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Please do. Right now I have the Modi/Vali but I think it's a bit too bright for my taste. Probably due to the Modi.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Ok I finshed the single test with nano iDSD. Soundstage great as before, I personally miss the 3D feature from my nano iCAN, but the nano iDSD drives the RS2i really well (more as loud enough), but the nano iCAN has more output power of course (for e.g. Sennheiser HD800).


----------



## Textfeud

h1f1add1cted said:


> Ok I finshed the single test with nano iDSD. Soundstage great as before, I personally miss the 3D feature from my nano iCAN, but the nano iDSD drives the RS2i really well (more as loud enough), but the nano iCAN has more output power of course (for e.g. Sennheiser HD800).


 
 I will only use it with the RS1i, no other headphones. Does the iCan add a lot for your RS2i?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

It depends on your own sound preferences. I personally would miss the X-Bass and 3D crossfeed anymore and soon I will get a HD800. I need the nano iCAN in this case. But if you stay with the Grado I don't see any disadvantage without the nano iCAN.


----------



## Textfeud

I wish I could just try it out at home first so I can decide if it's better than the Schiit Modi/Vali or maybe add the Vali with the IFI Nano IDSD. AArghhh


----------



## GradoSound

textfeud said:


> I wish I could just try it out at home first so I can decide if it's better than the Schiit Modi/Vali or maybe add the Vali with the IFI Nano IDSD. AArghhh


 
  
 I use Nano with RS2. It sounds very nice; typical analog-like iFi sound signature. Nano drives RS2's (32ohm) around 12-1pm volume positions which is ideal for precision volume control. I bitstream music so the source doesn't influence the volume and SQ.


----------



## Textfeud

gradosound said:


> I use Nano with RS2. It sounds very nice; typical analog-like iFi sound signature. Nano drives RS2's (32ohm) around 12-1pm volume positions which is ideal for precision volume control. I bitstream music so the source doesn't influence the volume and SQ.


 
 Thanks for your impression  Really want to snatch one of these up. Hopefully one in the classifieds will show up.


----------



## iFi audio

EISA award video *Little Big iFi in Berlin*
  
 Source: http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/little-big-ifi-jets-off-to-berlin-to-bring-home-the-eisa-award/
  
  
 We have been a bit quite of late - partly because of the micro iDSD launch, partly because of the show season and partly because of the EISA award for the nano iDSD.
  
 With regards to the latter, given the very plush EISA awards ceremony, we just had to made a very brief video of our trip over to Berlin and share it with you all.
And we made it a little light-hearted too.
  
Once again, thank you to all the EISA judges and to our all our customers for supporting the nano iDSD.


----------



## Textfeud

Couldn't reist any longer so I just ordered the IFI Nano IDSD, should be here tomorrow. Hope it will work well with the Schiit Vali (and the Little Dot I+ in the future) driving my Grado RS1i. It will replace the Schiit Modi. Wil also use it with my iPhone as a portable option!


----------



## Textfeud

Well received my IFI Nano IDSD today and it's going back today too. Can't get it to work properly and that's not because I don't know how to set it up. Never had trouble with any gear. Seller said it was a USB 3.0 problem on my Macbook and had to update the firmware. So went to my brother to use his Windows computer to update the firmware to the latest one. Well that doesn't work either. Followed all the steps on the IFI website but it just stays put at firmware 3.3 no matter how often I press Start. It is a common problem too, seeing as it's mentioned on the guide at the IFI website.
  
 Could be a great product, but if it comes with USB 3.0 problems and the firmware can't update it's a no go for me. I could go to a different Windows computer and try it there but it already sucked all the fun out of it for me. It also worries me a bit for the future if I have to update again since I do not own a Windows computer myself. 
  
 I hate myself for getting a iPad Connection Kit to use it with my iPhone before I got the Nano IDSD. What a waste of money and time this was.


----------



## Textfeud

Just send it back to the audio dealer and they offered to send me a Nano IDSD where they will manually install the newest firmware on. Not sure if I'm gonna take their offer yet but their service is very good.


----------



## muzzy

Did you get the firmware from this page: http://ifi-audio.com/ifi-xmos-firmware/?
 I had problems until I downloaded and installed this update. Since then it's worked perfectly


----------



## Textfeud

Yes I did, but like I said it got stuck on 3.30.


----------



## ClieOS

Make sure you are running the update with admin's right. Also, remove any other USB device before updating.


----------



## Textfeud

Yeah did all that, worked in IT so I know a little bit about computers. But it's already been send back and they will send me a copy with the new firmware. To be honest everything with my Mac is plug n play except for this one and you need to go to a Windows computer to update the firmware. Well I don't have a Windows PC so I had to go to my brother. Feels a bit unfinished to say the least.


----------



## semeniub

textfeud said:


> Yeah did all that, worked in IT so I know a little bit about computers. But it's already been send back and they will send me a copy with the new firmware. To be honest everything with my Mac is plug n play except for this one and you need to go to a Windows computer to update the firmware. Well I don't have a Windows PC so I had to go to my brother. Feels a bit unfinished to say the least.


 

 It's not uncommon to have to update the firmware on a DAC (most often via Windows), and most would say that iFi, their dealer network, and other users in these forums are very supportive in helping you get sorted.
  
 As for unfinished - would you also say that PS Audio with their expensive Directstream DAC, which is receiving regular firmware updates to tweak it's algorithms and sound, is an unfinished article? It's all relative I would say.
  
 In the case of the nano and the latest micro iDSD, I'm grateful that iFI is not just selling and forgetting, but is working to keep the products humming right along.


----------



## Textfeud

semeniub said:


> It's not uncommon to have to update the firmware on a DAC (most often via Windows), and most would say that iFi, their dealer network, and other users in these forums are very supportive in helping you get sorted.
> 
> As for unfinished - would you also say that PS Audio with their expensive Directstream DAC, which is receiving regular firmware updates to tweak it's algorithms and sound, is an unfinished article? It's all relative I would say.
> 
> In the case of the nano and the latest micro iDSD, I'm grateful that iFI is not just selling and forgetting, but is working to keep the products humming right along.


 
 Sure but if I'm buying a DAC that is Mac supported and they say it's plug and play without any drivers and I have to download something via Windows first to get it to work it's an unfinished product no matter how you put it.


----------



## muzzy

textfeud said:


> Yes I did, but like I said it got stuck on 3.30.


 

 Hopefully the replacement the send you works properly. I've only had mine a few weeks but it's a pleasure to listen through.


----------



## Textfeud

muzzy said:


> Hopefully the replacement the send you works properly. I've only had mine a few weeks but it's a pleasure to listen through.


 
 Dealer got the unit back today and will fix it tomorrow and then send it back to me. I could also get my money back but if it works (and the sound is good of course) this will be a great little dac/amp for me. I can use it as a portable with my phone around the house and with my Macbook Air at the desk. Plus it's future proof which is nice. Don't listen to DSD right now but you never know  Will probably also buy a Little Dot I+ as an amp with my Grado RS1i. That is, as soon as I can find one.


----------



## Textfeud

Getting a new copy tomorrow with firmware 4.0.2 preinstalled.


----------



## SubSTI

Got mine from


textfeud said:


> Getting a new copy tomorrow with firmware 4.0.2 preinstalled.


 
 Fingers crossed. got mine from http://artsexcellence.com/, great service.


----------



## Textfeud

substi said:


> Got mine from
> Fingers crossed. got mine from http://artsexcellence.com/, great service.


 
 Indeed, Kees Jan is a great guy.


----------



## johncarm

I got my Nano a couple days ago, and it worked fine until this morning. I was able to play all sample rates and DSD. This morning there was no analog output. The computer still recogizes the Nano and the light on the Nano correctly indicates the type of file being played. There's just complete silence out the headphone out or the RCA's. Any ideas?


----------



## Textfeud

johncarm said:


> I got my Nano a couple days ago, and it worked fine until this morning. I was able to play all sample rates and DSD. This morning there was no analog output. The computer still recogizes the Nano and the light on the Nano correctly indicates the type of file being played. There's just complete silence out the headphone out or the RCA's. Any ideas?


 
 I've had the same thing with my Schiit Modi. On other computers it worked fine. Try a other computer to see if it works. What kind of computer/laptop are you using it with?
  
 Could be a cable or your USB port can't handle the power needed.


----------



## Textfeud

Just got my new Nano IDSD and it's working great so far with the new firmware. Plug & Play like it should.
  
 First impressions of the sound is pretty good. DAC is good and AMP leaves something to be desired but that's normal. Overall this isn't far behind the Modi/Vali stack maybe even as good which is very impressive for a portable DAC/AMP. Will combine the Little Dot I+ with the Nano IDSD as soon as I can get my hands on one. I think I will have a good setup with my Grado RS1i then 
  
 EDIT: Definitely a keeper. A very versatile product. Works great with my Macbook Air, with my iPhone and can even drive my Adam Artist 3.


----------



## vomvos

vomvos said:


> Can anyone confirm that it works flawlessly using Nexus 5 and USB Audio Pro Player?
> I am in the quest for an android smartphone. Moto G also in consideration.
> Thank you


 
 Answering my own question, Nexus 5 + USB Audio Player PRO and Ifi Nano idsd works flawlessly. 
 An audio pleasure with my Focal spirit pros.


----------



## Sam L

I'm concerned that some of my iem's are too sensitive for this dac/amp.  Aside from using an attenuator, will running an adapter into the rca's help?  I understand that the volume controls both the rca's and 3.5mm.  Or i suppose I can run the 3.5mm into my topping vx1?  Or will that be double amping?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

No if you scroll the volume bar to the max from the nano iDSD, it will act only as a buffer and not act as a amp. I connected my nano iCAN on the nano iDSD no double amping here. I read this from iFi here some time ago.


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> No if you scroll the volume bar to the max from the nano iDSD, it will act only as a buffer and not act as a amp. I connected my nano iCAN on the nano iDSD no double amping here. I read this from iFi here some time ago.


 
  
 Yep, it has been confirmed by iFi a few pages back.


----------



## glassmonkey

Ever since I heard DSD files on good equipment on my trip to Japan, I've wanted to get something to allow me to play them. The ifi iDSD was on display in Japan, but I was only listening to DAPs. That was poor foresight on my part. Most DAPs aren't native DSD, with the exception of the AK240. I think my wife would murder me if I bought the AK240, even though it puts you on a higher state of being while listening (why did I have to hear that beautiful sound! Bless/damn you Yodabashi Camera!), so this leaves me with some more budget options as consideration. I'm looking at the ifi Nano iDSD and the geek out series of dac/amps. I don't know which to go for.
  
 I currently have an RE0 and KRK KNS8400 as my primary listening devices and a pair of low end active monitors at home. I really love the bright sound of both the RE0 and the KNS 8400. I tend to like sparkly treble and a neutral bright presentation. A bigger soundstage would be nice, but I prefer imaging over sound stage every day of the week. I am considering picking up some nuForce Primo 8s and/or some Q701s in the future for more headphone options. RE400 is another possibility. I listen to an extremely eclectic variety of music, but do use online services like soundcloud and bandcamp, so the dac/amp needs to be able to play nice with some lower quality sound. My personal collection is all 16/44.1 FLAC, but I plan to add some high res when I get a dac.
  
 I know there are some folks in this thread who own or have owned a geek out and the iDSD. Has anyone compared the geek out with new firmware to the iDSD? Has anyone tried either of these dac/amps with the iems/headphones listed above?
  
 I'm really looking forward to some impressions and comparisons.


----------



## koolas

textfeud said:


> Sure but if I'm buying a DAC that is Mac supported and they say it's plug and play without any drivers and I have to download something via Windows first to get it to work it's an unfinished product no matter how you put it.




I wonder, since there is this new firmware, why is iFi not selling new iDSDs with this new firmware already on it?

Dear iFi, I think you need to change that, because some customers might be put off heavily. The product is great, so why to discourage people...


----------



## technobear

koolas said:


> textfeud said:
> 
> 
> > Sure but if I'm buying a DAC that is Mac supported and they say it's plug and play without any drivers and I have to download something via Windows first to get it to work it's an unfinished product no matter how you put it.
> ...




So what are you suggesting? That iFi Audio contact all their distributors and dealers and ask them to break open all the iDSDs, upgrade the firmware and then artfully reseal them in virgin cellophane? Methinks that aside from the unwanted bother, it might wipe out all the profit in these devices. 

:rolleyes:


----------



## ClieOS

koolas said:


> I wonder, since there is this new firmware, why is iFi not selling new iDSDs with this new firmware already on it?
> 
> Dear iFi, I think you need to change that, because some customers might be put off heavily. The product is great, so why to discourage people...


 
  
 Because there is a time delay between manufacturing (where the firmware was loaded), taking order from retailer, shipping the order oversea, retailer taking the stock and selling them off, and customer taking it home to use it for the first time. Meanwhile, firmware upgrade happens on its own pace. It is unrealistic to ask iFi to recall all the leftover stock from every retailer just to update the firmware to the latest, neither is it realistic to ask retailer to brake open the packaging seal to carry out firmware update every time a new one is available. There is why there are dedicated webpage and customer service personnel helping user to update the firmware for themselves. Do Microsoft or Apple callback your PC to install the latest update and bugfix? Do you even get the latest bugfix and update when you buy a new PC? Of course not, they rely on you to connect to the internet and do the update on your own home. Update and bugfix come out all the time, no one can guarantee what you get from a store will always be the latest. To expect such a thing will be too naive in the age of internet.


----------



## Sound Eq

hello guys, i want to build the best transportable rig from ifi, can you suggest best combo to work with iPad air.
  
 I don't mind buying more than one product from ifi to get a full warm rich sound, i owned the hugo before and it was a little thin sounding with my audeze lcd2rev2
  
 I am not a total bass head but i love to feel bass and that is why i like to build a tranpostrable rig that plays all my flac files with good sound signature that is warm full, rich and layered
  
 any suggestions
  
 also can the ifi idsd micro be powered by an external battery, and form where can i buy that battery


----------



## john57

My understanding is that the battery in the micro can be used to charge your phone or ipad but not the reverse.  It may be possible to use the USB 5v line to provide power or charge the internal battery. This is the Nano thread not the micro thread.


----------



## glassmonkey

sound eq said:


> hello guys, i want to build the best transportable rig from ifi, can you suggest best combo to work with iPad air.
> 
> I don't mind buying more than one product from ifi to get a full warm rich sound, i owned the hugo before and it was a little thin sounding with my audeze lcd2rev2
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow. That is the first time I've heard anything negative about the Hugo. I have to wonder how you are going to top it. Maybe get yourself an AK240?


----------



## Textfeud

clieos said:


> Because there is a time delay between manufacturing (where the firmware was loaded), taking order from retailer, shipping the order oversea, retailer taking the stock and selling them off, and customer taking it home to use it for the first time. Meanwhile, firmware upgrade happens on its own pace. It is unrealistic to ask iFi to recall all the leftover stock from every retailer just to update the firmware to the latest, neither is it realistic to ask retailer to brake open the packaging seal to carry out firmware update every time a new one is available. There is why there are dedicated webpage and customer service personnel helping user to update the firmware for themselves. Do Microsoft or Apple callback your PC to install the latest update and bugfix? Do you even get the latest bugfix and update when you buy a new PC? Of course not, they rely on you to connect to the internet and do the update on your own home. Update and bugfix come out all the time, no one can guarantee what you get from a store will always be the latest. To expect such a thing will be too naive in the age of internet.


 
 Big difference is this. If I buy a new Mac or PC, I don't need one of the other to update the firmware. In this case I buy it for my Macbook Air and can't use it until I update with Windows which I don't have nor do I want. If it would also be possible to update the firmware with Mac it would be fine.


----------



## ClieOS

textfeud said:


> Big difference is this. If I buy a new Mac or PC, I don't need one of the other to update the firmware. In this case I buy it for my Macbook Air and can't use it until I update with Windows which I don't have nor do I want. If it would also be possible to update the firmware with Mac it would be fine.


 
  
 True, but you seem to be the rarer case here and you did get taking care of, didn't you? Of course, it would be great if the update can be done over Mac, but it could just be that it is impossible to do so and not a case of iFi being lazy. Also, the problem lies in USB3.0 hardware compatibility (which does not just affecting iDSD nano, but also quite a few other USB DAC that rely on USB2.0 protocol, check the forum and you'll know) and iFi seems to be one of the first to address this problem. The responsibility isn't solely on iFi, but also the rush of PC industry on adopting new standard that has not been fully tested.


----------



## Textfeud

clieos said:


> True, but you seem to be the rarer case here and you did get taking care of, didn't you? Of course, it would be great if the update can be done over Mac, but it could just be that it is impossible to do so and not a case of iFi being lazy. Also, the problem lies in USB3.0 hardware compatibility (which does not just affecting iDSD nano, but also quite a few other USB DAC that rely on USB2.0 protocol, check the forum and you'll know) and iFi seems to be one of the first to address this problem. The responsibility isn't solely on iFi, but also the rush of PC industry on adopting new standard that has not been fully tested.


 
 I'm not bashing iFi or anything at all. First sentence seems that you think I am. I really like the iFi Nano IDSD, but the fact remains that it's not really handy to ship out gear that can't be used by some. And yeah I got taken care of by the dealer here in Holland.. I had to ship it back to the dealer (which costs money) and the dealer had to ship it back again (which costs him money). So that's 18 euro down the drain for nothing. My Macbook Air is from mid 2013 which is before the Nano IDSD came on the market, so the problem should have been nipped in the butt from the very start (IMO of course).


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Hi guys how is your battery life from the nano iDSD?
  
 I get around 7 to 7,5 hours of playback, but I use the nano iCAN as stack and I don't use the amp part of the nano iDSD, why I don't reach the 10 hour mark?
  
 I play only normal non hi-res FLAC 16/44 files from my Sony Smartphone with UAPP. I would accecpt if I play hi-res files that I have less battery life, but on weekend sometimes I want to use the half day music listening.


----------



## ClieOS

textfeud said:


> I'm not bashing iFi or anything at all. First sentence seems that you think I am. I really like the iFi Nano IDSD, but the fact remains that it's not really handy to ship out gear that can't be used by some. And yeah I got taken care of by the dealer here in Holland.. I had to ship it back to the dealer (which costs money) and the dealer had to ship it back again (which costs him money). So that's 18 euro down the drain for nothing. My Macbook Air is from mid 2013 which is before the Nano IDSD came on the market, so the problem should have been nipped in the butt from the very start (IMO of course).


 
  
 As I have said, the problem lies inside USB3.0 standard that causes it to be incompatible to many USB DAC. The fact that your Mac is older might actually also contributing to the problem as it is not till recent months that the USB3.0 chip set maker started to address the problem.
  
  


h1f1add1cted said:


> Hi guys how is your battery life from the nano iDSD?
> 
> I get around 7 to 7,5 hours of playback, but I use the nano iCAN as stack and I don't use the amp part of the nano iDSD, why I don't reach the 10 hour mark?
> 
> I play only normal non hi-res FLAC 16/44 files from my Sony Smartphone with UAPP. I would accecpt if I play hi-res files that I have less battery life, but on weekend sometimes I want to use the half day music listening.


 
  
 7.0 ~ 7.5 hours seems fine to me. I would think most manufacturer quoted battery life tends to be tested on idea situation (low volume with easy load) and not quite measured up to a real life environment and load. Because of iDAD nano's amp section implementation, which also doubles as the line-out buffer, I don't think there is any real power saving whether you use it to drive headphone or as buffer (which maxes out the amp section).


----------



## maczh2002

Does anyone face the same problem as i do?
  
 Current rig:
  
 Macbook air using Audirvana -> Mercury cable -> iPurifier -> Nano iDSD -> RCA -> Nano iCAN -> Philips X1.
  
  
 It happens say 1 out of 3 times i play music.
  
 The nano idsd doesn't recognise that I'm using RCA, and there is an imbalance in output to the nano ican, meaning i only hear the Left channel. Right channel is usually 0 output. 
  
 I find that the "by chance" remedy is to use a 3.5mm jack an plunge it into the nano idsd 3.5mm socket to try to "reset" the nano idsd into recognising the RCA out.
  
 It doesn't really work, and its really only resolved "by chance", if i happen to hit the right spot.
  
 Any thoughts?
  
 Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## ClieOS

maczh2002 said:


> Does anyone face the same problem as i do?
> 
> Current rig:
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 3.5mm socket acts as a the switch to cut off RCA output when a headphone is plugged in. But sometime the 'spring' mechanism inside 3.5mm socket becomes 'lazy' after not being used for awhile and starts to contact each other, making the DAC catting the RCA off as if there is a headphone is plugged in. My suggestion is, use the 3.5mm instead, as it is internally the same signal as the RCA, so there is no SQ lost. Alternatively, try plugging the 3.5mm in and out a few times, which should force / push the spring mechanism further apart and should temporary fix the problem.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

clieos said:


> 7.0 ~ 7.5 hours seems fine to me. I would think most manufacturer quoted battery life tends to be tested on idea situation (low volume with easy load) and not quite measured up to a real life environment and load. Because of iDAD nano's amp section implementation, which also doubles as the line-out buffer, I don't think there is any real power saving whether you use it to drive headphone or as buffer (which maxes out the amp section).


 
  
 Thank you, would it bad for the amp if I use the nano iDSD not with volume to max? I read before if we stack with amp turn volume to max. but 9 to 10 hours would be great, because the nano iCAN runs with my cans around 55 hours...


----------



## glassmonkey

clieos said:


> The 3.5mm socket acts as a the switch to cut off RCA output when a headphone is plugged in. But sometime the 'spring' mechanism inside 3.5mm socket becomes 'lazy' after not being used for awhile and starts to contact each other, making the DAC catting the RCA off as if there is a headphone is plugged in. My suggestion is, use the 3.5mm instead, as it is internally the same signal as the RCA, so there is no SQ lost. Alternatively, try plugging the 3.5mm in and out a few times, which should force / push the spring mechanism further apart and should temporary fix the problem.


 
 Pursuant to this, if this is indeed the problem, a plastic plug or rubber plug for the 3.5 jack could solve the issue. Try searching for headphone dust cap on eBay. There is lots of variety.


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> Thank you, would it bad for the amp if I use the nano iDSD not with volume to max? I read before if we stack with amp turn volume to max. but 9 to 10 hours would be great, because the nano iCAN runs with my cans around 55 hours...


 
  
 Well, nothing bad for the amp, but you won't be getting the full dynamic range of the iDAD nano so SQ might not be at its best. It is a choice. If you don't hear any SQ lost then you should be fine.
  


glassmonkey said:


> Pursuant to this, if this is indeed the problem, a plastic plug or rubber plug for the 3.5 jack could solve the issue. Try searching for headphone dust cap on eBay. There is lots of variety.


 
  
 Totally forget about that - yep, that might just work.


----------



## mediabox

I have owned the Nano for a week or so now and I can say that this is an outstanding product for its versatility, portability, price and, of course, sound. I am using mainly Etymotics ER4 and Sennheiser PX200 on Galaxy S4 and Iphone 5C and Dell desktop. 
  
 There is one thing which lacking for the European device of the year - its *dedicated player*. While the Onkyo HD Player and UMPP are OK, using the JRiver on Windows is too much of a good thing - it is a bulky Media centre and it adds 25 per cent to the Nano's price while the money goes to a third party.
  
  Look at the Sony or TEAC Windows players for their dacs  - they are just plug and play. Clean and simple interface, you just choose the dac and method and here you are! And they are using more or less the same software platform. The bottom line is - IFi, a great product has to have Ifi support in all departments which is also a useful marketing tool.The Apple and Android apps would also be nice. Get in line with the biggies - it is not a high mountain to climb!


----------



## iFi audio

mediabox said:


> I have owned the Nano for a week or so now and I can say that this is an outstanding product for its versatility, portability, price and, of course, sound. I am using mainly Etymotics ER4 and Sennheiser PX200 on Galaxy S4 and Iphone 5C and Dell desktop.
> 
> 
> There is one thing which lacking for the European device of the year - its *dedicated player*. While the Onkyo HD Player and UMPP are OK, using the JRiver on Windows is too much of a good thing - it is a bulky Media centre and it adds 25 per cent to the Nano's price while the money goes to a third party.
> ...


 

 Thank you.
  
 Doing an iFi audio app is not easy as we want it to crack Octa-DSD512. At the moment, only Hibiki is capable of DSD256.
  
 We dont do ordinary!
  
 We are also extensively testing the Seagate Wireless Plus as a portable NAS to go with the iPhone/Android.


----------



## Dixter

ifi audio said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Doing an iFi audio app is not easy as we want it to crack Octa-DSD512. At the moment, only Hibiki is capable of DSD256.
> 
> ...


 

 Can you expand on how you are using the Seagate...  what application are you using that accesses the Seagate for HD music playback....


----------



## iFi audio

dixter said:


> Can you expand on how you are using the Seagate...  what application are you using that accesses the Seagate for HD music playback....


 

 Hi,
  
 On a Smart device - one must download the Seagate app and run through that.
  
 As the Seagate app only plays through iTunes music player, on an iPhone, it will only play MP3 through to AIFF.
  
 Slight snag but small compromise to play 2TB of music through the iPhone.
  
 We are still testing it in the lab.


----------



## mediabox

ifi audio said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Doing an iFi audio app is not easy as we want it to crack Octa-DSD512. At the moment, only Hibiki is capable of DSD256.
> 
> ...


 
 While aiming at the stars, you are not doing enough credit to the ground. The third party apps are very basic and "raw" to say at least,  so you (and ,respectively, we - customers)  cannot do justice to the already excellent existing potential also bearing in mind that even DSD64#128 is a very rare animal. A Seagate option might be a good idea also for the future but where are we now, today? Pls give us some quality to play with literary speaking...


----------



## Dixter

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> On a Smart device - one must download the Seagate app and run through that.
> 
> ...


 

 Started playing with the Seagate again...   one player that claims to be able to stream FLAC files from the Seagate is 8Player ... so far I have got it to stream itunes music from the Seagate without issue but still trying to figure out how to play back FLAC files...   no DSD support though


----------



## cattlethief

Disappointed the onkyo hf player doesnt work with the nano on Android!


----------



## iFi audio

cattlethief said:


> Disappointed the onkyo hf player doesnt work with the nano on Android!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Onkyo HF Player only runs on iOS.
  
 Some background info here:
 http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/articles/onkyo-hf-player-app-offers-precision-equalizer-192-24-playback-on-ios-devices-96729.html
  
 If you wish to play standard/hi-res audio on Android you need to have an Android capable of UAPP.
  
 You can open a support ticket:
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 And one of the staff will email through a pdf on Android and UAPP.


----------



## cattlethief

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Onkyo HF Player only runs on iOS.
> 
> ...


 
 Onkyo have brought out an hf app for android and it works with the stoner acoustics ud100 dac,I use UAPP on my android phone and its great with the nano(different class),but is there any reason the hf android app wont work with the nano?


----------



## iFi audio

cattlethief said:


> Onkyo have brought out an hf app for android and it works with the stoner acoustics ud100 dac,I use UAPP on my android phone and its great with the nano(different class),but is there any reason the hf android app wont work with the nano?


 

 Hi,
  
 No reason why it should not.
  
 Have forwarded your comments to our tech people to take a look at.
  
 Please give us sometime to look into this.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## cattlethief

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> No reason why it should not.
> 
> ...


 
 cheers! My oneplus one works 'natively' with the stoner dac,HRT music streamer 2 and Fiio e7,it would be cool if the best DAC in my collection would!


----------



## iFi audio

cattlethief said:


> cheers! My oneplus one works 'natively' with the stoner dac,HRT music streamer 2 and Fiio e7,it would be cool if the best DAC in my collection would!


 

 Hi,
  
 We are still testing HF player, for now USB Audio with Android is still very variable, different devices react differently.
  
 Getting USB to play via android's own sound system requires USB Audio Class 1 Devices which are limited to 96KHz sample rate or lower and cannot handle DSD.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## mediabox

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are still testing HF player, for now USB Audio with Android is still very variable, different devices react differently.
> 
> ...


 
 This is what the eXtream Software Development - AKA UAPP- say about Onkyo HF -  "The Onkyo player is for USB devices that are host (and the Android acting as a USB accessory). Unless the iFi has some kind of dual mode, this is probably not going to work".


----------



## DanBa

The Onkyo HF Player running on an Android-powered Samsung Galaxy Note 3 can play DSD files and output legacy PCM streams (i.e. PCM conversion) to a standard USB DAC. These PCM streams are only 16/48 streams due to the current 16/48  limitation of the Android media player framework.
  
 USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP) running on a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 can play DSD files and output DSD over PCM (DoP) streams (i.e. "DSD native") to a DoP USB DAC.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/4965#post_10660323
  
  
 The Onkyo HF Player, like Neutron or other usual music player, uses the service provided by the native USB audio (currently implemented by the Android device maker using the Android media player framework).
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5550#post_10974392
 If Neutron or the stock music player, running on a given Android device, can't work with a given USB DAC; then the Onkyo HF player, running on that Android device, won't work with that USB DAC.
  
 UAPP doesn't use the Android media player framework. It has its own USB audio soft driver, the best Android USB audio implementation so far (i.e. most compatible, best sound quality).
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5550#post_10974215


----------



## iFi audio

danba said:


> The Onkyo HF Player running on an Android-powered Samsung Galaxy Note 3 can play DSD files and output legacy PCM streams (i.e. PCM conversion) to a standard USB DAC. These PCM streams are only 16/48 streams due to the current 16/48  limitation of the Android media player framework.
> 
> 
> USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP) running on a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 can play DSD files and output DSD over PCM (DoP) streams (i.e. "DSD native") to a DoP USB DAC.
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Agree totally:
  
 UAPP doesn't use the Android media player framework. It has its own USB audio soft driver, the best Android USB audio implementation so far (i.e. most compatible, best sound quality).
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5550#post_10974215


----------



## shabta

Anyone able to get nano iDSD to play DST256 DSD files on a PC with foobar? I can get 64 DSD to play (haven't tried 128...). 
  
 I have tried on two different PCs. I tried to submit a support request but I don't think the guy understood me and just sent the normal IFI instructions back to me...
  
 Any pointers appreciated.


----------



## Dixter

shabta said:


> Anyone able to get nano iDSD to play DST256 DSD files on a PC with foobar? I can get 64 DSD to play (haven't tried 128...).
> 
> I have tried on two different PCs. I tried to submit a support request but I don't think the guy understood me and just sent the normal IFI instructions back to me...
> 
> Any pointers appreciated.


 

 For that format you might want to try JRiver Media Center 20....  works well with the Nano for 256 DSD on the PC


----------



## iFi audio

shabta said:


> Anyone able to get nano iDSD to play DST256 DSD files on a PC with foobar? I can get 64 DSD to play (haven't tried 128...).
> 
> 
> I have tried on two different PCs. I tried to submit a support request but I don't think the guy understood me and just sent the normal IFI instructions back to me...
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Foobar is open source and requires some work to get DSD up and running and is not that stable.
  
 Need the ASIO DSD plug-in etc...
  
 We may have sent you the incorrect pdf but was it regarding Foobar? As we only have the MP3>DSD conversion pdf and the DSD plug-in. Dont think we have a third.
  
 Thanks


----------



## shabta

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Foobar is open source and requires some work to get DSD up and running and is not that stable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your reply. It is not that the pdf is incorrect, it is just that it is a little tone deaf. Since I must have followed those instructions to get any kind of DSD running in the first place.  I have 64 DSD up and running. I just can't get 256 DSD running. I was wondering if anyone else has and then to see if their setup is different from mine. Since I have now tried it on two PCs which both run 64 DSD fine, I am wondering if it is even possible to get foobar to do the higher rate. Have you guys tried it?
  
 Foobar has been not only stable for me, but so much less bloated the jriver which I found a lot of problems with. But I haven't tried it for two years so maybe I will give it another whirl. But honestly I was just downloading some free DSD tracks to see if I could hear a difference with 256 DSD. And I actually probably won't change from Foobar because right now it plays everything I have purchased. 
  
 So Has Anybody Got Foobar to Work with *256 DSD*?


----------



## john57

shabta said:


> Anyone able to get nano iDSD to play DST256 DSD files on a PC with foobar? I can get 64 DSD to play (haven't tried 128...).
> 
> I have tried on two different PCs. I tried to submit a support request but I don't think the guy understood me and just sent the normal IFI instructions back to me...
> 
> Any pointers appreciated.


 
 yes I can do you have at least firmware version 4.00 or higher? what happens when you try it?


----------



## shabta

O thanks John. Yes I have the latest firmware. Good to know that it works in Foobar!


----------



## technobear

What is your PC? Maybe it lacks power or is too busy performing other tasks.


----------



## shabta

technobear said:


> What is your PC? Maybe it lacks power or is too busy performing other tasks.


 
  
 One PC is  a mighty powerful desktop. I checked task manager and nothing else major is running.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

shabta said:


> Thanks for your reply. It is not that the pdf is incorrect, it is just that it is a little tone deaf. Since I must have followed those instructions to get any kind of DSD running in the first place.  I have 64 DSD up and running. I just can't get 256 DSD running. I was wondering if anyone else has and then to see if their setup is different from mine. Since I have now tried it on two PCs which both run 64 DSD fine, I am wondering if it is even possible to get foobar to do the higher rate. Have you guys tried it?
> 
> Foobar has been not only stable for me, but so much less bloated the jriver which I found a lot of problems with. But I haven't tried it for two years so maybe I will give it another whirl. But honestly I was just downloading some free DSD tracks to see if I could hear a difference with 256 DSD. And I actually probably won't change from Foobar because right now it plays everything I have purchased.
> 
> So Has Anybody Got Foobar to Work with *256 DSD*?


 
  
 Yes no problem with foobar2000:
  
 DSD256 (with Magenta led ligth on)
  

  
  
 Follow this guide: http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000


----------



## iFi audio

Public Release – 2 x David Elias DSD tracks  
 Click here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/public-release-2-x-david-elias-dsd-tracks/
  





 Following on from the iFi iCLUB DSD album last week, as promised, the following two tracks are available to all.
 As with the previous recordings, these are all 100% DSD, having been recorded, mixed and mastered directly on the Sony Sonoma DSD Workstation provided by Gus Skinas at SuperAudioCenter.com.
 We hope you like them.
 Thank you again to David for his great work on the DSD recording front!


----------



## rickyleelee

shabta said:


> Thanks for your reply. It is not that the pdf is incorrect, it is just that it is a little tone deaf. Since I must have followed those instructions to get any kind of DSD running in the first place.  I have 64 DSD up and running. I just can't get 256 DSD running. I was wondering if anyone else has and then to see if their setup is different from mine. Since I have now tried it on two PCs which both run 64 DSD fine, I am wondering if it is even possible to get foobar to do the higher rate. Have you guys tried it?
> 
> Foobar has been not only stable for me, but so much less bloated the jriver which I found a lot of problems with. But I haven't tried it for two years so maybe I will give it another whirl. But honestly I was just downloading some free DSD tracks to see if I could hear a difference with 256 DSD. And I actually probably won't change from Foobar because right now it plays everything I have purchased.
> 
> So Has Anybody Got Foobar to Work with *256 DSD*?


 
  
If your install still fails to work at DSD256, try "full" un-install and re-install. It happened to me and I got it back up and running properly. It does say this in the pdf (if you and I have the same version). I hope you appreciate the fact that Foobar isn't written by them but they are trying to help others get better sound by offering this tutorial and support. As OP says, it works for me too. Good luck.


----------



## Dixter

Here is some more instructions to get foobar2000 to work with 256 DSD... a couple changes to the pdf that was posted earlier..
  
 Follow this guide: http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000




  
 If you go by the directions I would be surprised if you could get Foobar to work with 256 DSD...
  
 in the pdf file at step 11... as shown below :
  
  
 10. Open Foobar2000
 11. Select _Components_.
 12. Select _Playback > Output > ASIO_.
  
 Try this instead...  should work for you.
  
 10 Open Foobar2000
 11. Select File -> Preferences -> Components
 12. In the right side panel select ->  Install
 13. Navigate to the Foobar2000 Components directory ( C:\Program Files (x86) -> Foobar2000->components
 14 Select foo_out_asio and foo_input_sacd,   then select " apply "
 15. Close Foobar2000 and open Foobar2000 again
 16. Select File-> Preferences -> select Output-> select ASIO -> select Use 64bit and Run with high process priority
 17. Note that the ifi (by AMR) HD USB Audio is listed as a ASIO Driver
 18. Select OK
  
 Restart Foobar2000 and use as normal...  should work


----------



## Dixter

Just in case you need a couple 256 DSD files to test your ifi nano/micro then here is a site for you....    wonder why ifi doesn't provide their own test files ??  Sure would help....
  
 https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation


----------



## h1f1add1cted

dixter said:


> Follow this guide: http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I used this guide and it works fine, I only had no idea about the foo_input_sacd.dll file part (which I know now, is stored in this path ...\Roaming\foobar2000\user-components\foo_input_sacd), but as you see an my photo it works to 100% with DSD256.


----------



## Dixter

yep works in yours and works in mine too...   
  
 looks like there is more than one way to get Foobar to work...   step 11 was just a little off in the pdf...


----------



## iFi audio

Hi all,
  
 For a quick reference quick, these are the most common areas to check that things are setup correctly otherwise DSD playback will be patchy.
  
 Just verify that these two sections are correct.
  




 Enjoy and most important of all, enjoy the tunes.


----------



## zorin

clieos said:


> Not much is known at this point except that (1) it is the first of Nano series, hence it will be smaller than the current Micro series. (2) It will decode DSD, thus the name iDSD. and (3) it could be priced as low as $160 or so (unconfirmed yet). (4) As you can see on the picture,* it will have RCA line-out *and a headphone-out. It will be officially announced on the Oct. 12th @ Beijing International Hi-Fi show
> 
> Also there is mention of possible portable amp released under the Nano series in the future.


 
 Why two RCA lines out on a small thingy like that, why no 3.5mm out ?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

There is a 3.5mm out. The RCA is addtional, like connect with a normal RCA cable to an external amp or other device. 3.5mm and RCA are using the same internal lines, so there is no difference. Choose what you prefer.


----------



## wensan

h1f1add1cted said:


> There is a 3.5mm out. The RCA is addtional, like connect with a normal RCA cable to an external amp or other device. 3.5mm and RCA are using the same internal lines, so there is no difference. Choose what you prefer.


 
 I think it is a Digital Output, not a 3.5mm output.


----------



## ClieOS

wensan said:


> I think it is a Digital Output, not a 3.5mm output.


 
  
 There is a single RCA digital-out (S/PDIF) on back, two analog RCA out on the front for stereo channels. There is a 3.5mm headphone-out on the front as well.


----------



## wensan

clieos said:


> There is a single RCA digital-out (S/PDIF) on back, two analog RCA out on the front for stereo channels. There is a 3.5mm headphone-out on the front as well.


 
  
 Hi, ClieOS, thanks.


----------



## koolas

Just listening Yahel from iDSD on my XBA-C10, and it sounds pretty amazing. Recently I leave Alpha Dogs and Pan Am at home, because iDSD + XBA-C10 is really great combo, and truly portable. Amazing how much detail these tiny earpieces provide, but only when driven by iDSD. This device is great achievement of iFi's - honestly, and I'm only listening to Vorbis @ 300kbps, and not DSD not even hi-rez, just HQ Vorbis. I think iDSD is truly about quality and not only features like probably other contestants might be... Now I'm thinking maybe to buy some iPhone or Android to use iDSD on the go :rolleyes:


----------



## shabta

Hey thanks to all for the advice and encouragement, I got 256 DSD  working. Not sure what was wrong, but I ended up uninstalling and re-installing foobar and the components following dixter's mod of the audiostream instructions. 
  
 Happily listening to 256 DSD and gazing at a magenta light as I write this.


----------



## CrapInMySoul

Hello,
  
 I am new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





and want to join now headphone/dac hifi
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Think about buying K701 headphones and the iDSD Nano for beginning. So my question is, if the Micro would be the more better choice only soundwise or would the Nano make me happy enough??
  
 Sorry for my English, it is not my native language.


----------



## shabta

crapinmysoul said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am new here
> 
> ...


 
  
 The micro will be a bit better soundwise, but you will notice a much bigger difference if you take the difference between the micro and the nano and put it towards better headphones...


----------



## CrapInMySoul

Thanx, have ordered the Micro now. We will see. Regarding headphones I am doubtful if I should go with AKG 701 or Philips Fidelio X1??


----------



## zorin

crapinmysoul said:


> Thanx, have ordered the Micro now. We will see. Regarding headphones I am doubtful if I should go with AKG 701 or Philips Fidelio X1??


 
 It depends on what music you listen to.


----------



## CrapInMySoul

zorin said:


> It depends on what music you listen to.


 
  
 Mostly Rock, Pop, 60s-90s .....


----------



## Turrican2

Tried searching this thread but can't really find what I'm looking for.  I've loaned my nano to a friend and he has a MAC.  Are there any good free solutions which play well with the idsd nano?  I'm aware of Audirvana and JRiver but looking for a potentially free solution (not just a trial)
  
  
 I should clarify I'm talking about dsd playback.  I know the nano is supported without drivers on the MAC so any audio app should be able to use it, just not sure about dsd support.
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## zorin

crapinmysoul said:


> Mostly Rock, Pop, 60s-90s .....


 
 My picks
 - Philips Fidelio X2 - 50 mm driver
 - Audio Technica A900X - 53mm driver. On badly mastered and shrill albums you'll have to tone down/EQ down the treble of these headphones because it is a bit hot. .. but rock music and acoustic music requires full treble otherwise it sounds dull.
 - Audio Technica W1000Z [ or or previous version W1000X ] - 53mm driver. To sound the best W1000Z should be paired with either a tube amplifier or a hybrid tube + solid state amp. There are three portable hybrid amps you can get.
 - Sony MDR-Z7 - 70mm driver. Bass a little overpowering and treble is lacking a bit.
 Top end
 - Beyerdynamic T1 - 50mm driver. Best over-all electrodynamic headphones for all kinds of music. Tube or hybrid amplifier is required for T1.
 - Audio Technica W3000ANV - 53mm driver. Magic for vocals and for folk, country, country rock, classic rock, pop and ancient/baroque/chamber music and for acoustic music. 
 - Fostex TH900 - 50mm driver. Bass is somewhat overpowering, interferes with the middle frequencies [for some people the quality of bass outweighs its being a nuisance sometimes]. The middle frequencies, and vocals, are moderately recessed. Treble is rough a bit.
  
 Do not go for headphones with driver that is smaller than 50 mm.


----------



## CrapInMySoul

zorin said:


> My picks
> - Philips Fidelio X2 - 50 mm driver
> - Audio Technica A900X - 53mm driver. On badly mastered and shrill albums you'll have to tone down/EQ down the treble of these headphones because it is a bit hot. .. but rock music and acoustic music requires full treble otherwise it sounds dull.
> - Audio Technica W1000Z [ or or previous version W1000X ] - 53mm driver. To sound the best W1000Z should be paired with either a tube amplifier or a hybrid tube + solid state amp. There are three portable hybrid amps you can get.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much, I think I buy X2.


----------



## technobear

zorin said:


> - Beyerdynamic T1 - 50mm driver. Best over-all electrodynamic headphones for all kinds of music. *Tube or hybrid amplifier is required for T1*.




Absolute nonsense!

The T1 pairs brilliantly with all of the following:

 ifi Audio micro iCAN

 Audiolab 8200CDQ or M-DAC

 Kenwood KR950B (yes, a 32 year old receiver and a very good one at that)

Tubes are not "required" at all.

That doesn't mean the T1 won't sound good with a decent tube amp. It will. Just that it can sound just as good with a decent solid state amp.


----------



## mannitheear

Hi all,
  
 I'm very, very satisfied with my iDSD nano and use it mostly on the go as a DAC - headphone amp with a Sony Xperia Z (Android 4.4.). This works and sounds perfectly with the UAPP App.
  
 Now I have two minor issues I could not solve yet: 
  
 1. I would it find convenient to have one single short cable from the Phone to the DAC instead of a cable + adapter, but I could not find such a cable.
  
 2. The digital out works only with the UAPP App, sadly not with Spotify or any other audio player. Is this a problem with the Xperia Z hardware or more likely with the Android version?
  
 Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

mannitheear said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I'm very, very satisfied with my iDSD nano and use it mostly on the go as a DAC - headphone amp with a Sony Xperia Z (Android 4.4.). This works and sounds perfectly with the UAPP App.
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 To answer your technical questions:

  
 > 1. I would it find convenient to have one single short cable from the
 > Phone to the DAC instead of a cable + adapter, but I could not find
 > such a cable.
  
 Your solution is probably a custom made/termniated OTG cable. We recommend Forza Audio Works - see if they can do this for you.
  
 They know their stuff and their workmanship is second-to-none. We show with their noir hybrid with our LCD-Xs and ATs and LCD-2s.
  
  
 > 2. The digital out works only with the UAPP App, sadly not with Spotify
 > or any other audio player. Is this a problem with the Xperia Z hardware
 > or more likely with the Android version?
 It is an Android Limitation.
  
 Sony has released Android 4.4.4 for the Xperia Z2 & Z3 but AFAIK, not yet for the Xperia Z range.
  
 This revision has much better USB Audio and Hi-Rez support. We have a Z2 Tablet and a Z Ultra Phone. And it is the business.
  
 On the Z2/3 with 4.4.4 you can now use a USB DAC directly, it will play back the system sounds and audio from Spotify, Tidal, Games and no doubt any other Android App. The built-in "Walkman" branded Music Player supports High-Rez up to 192kHz and DSD playback via USB DAC or Headphones, though DSD is transcoded to 176.4kHz PCM. It also plays from Network Sources (Media Server DLNA etc. e.g. the Media Library from a suitalby consigured windows PC).
  
 As long as you stop any Music Playback App (meaning kill it) you can use USB Audio Player Pro for native DSD playback and High Rez beyond DSD64/192kHz.
  
 There is no intention announced by Sony to bring this to the original Z lineup, though Sony has committed to bringing Adroid Lollipop (5.0) to Xperia Z devices in 2015 starting in Q1 with the Z3 range.
  
 Lollipop will support USB Audio in the same way 4.4.4 does, indeed, Sony may have backported this feature from Lollipop to Kitkat (4.4) making their 4.4.4 Version.
  
 Anyone who wants 4.4.4 (and full USB Audio support) on an Xperia Z1 or Xperia Z - do write to Sony care of Kunimasa Suzuki (CEO of Sony mobile).
 We hope this has shed more light on this matter and pointed you in the right direction.


----------



## mannitheear

Hi,
  
 first, thank you for the comprehensive reply.
  
 My Xperia Z says it has 4.4.4 yet. So I have not too much hope, the situation will change with 5.0. 
  
 I wrote to Sony now and will contact Forza Audio.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

mannitheear said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm very, very satisfied with my iDSD nano and use it mostly on the go as a DAC - headphone amp with a Sony Xperia Z (Android 4.4.). This works and sounds perfectly with the UAPP App.
> 
> ...


 

 My solution for question no. 1:
  


  

  

  

  

  
  
  
 Solution for question no. 2 is wait for Android 5.0 / Lollipop for your phone, with this you will able to use the nano system wide, not only with UAPP, but only 16bit output, no 24bit output, but 16/44 FLAC files are more than enough


----------



## ClieOS

You will need to be able to use Taobao to get this, but here is my solution:
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w1017-3761430234.69.9JPefY&id=18981853790&


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Or a little shorter way:
  


  
  
 Get an generic short micro USB OTG cable and add a simple USB type B plug = only 9 cm long.


----------



## ljbrandt

Does the nano iDSD simultaneously output analog signals through RCA and 3.5mm outputs?  Trying to figure out if a subwoofer can be integrated into my setup.


----------



## analogsurviver

ljbrandt said:


> Does the nano iDSD simultaneously output analog signals through RCA and 3.5mm outputs?  Trying to figure out if a subwoofer can be integrated into my setup.


 
 No.


----------



## burdie

Recently I used my Nano for RCA line out to my home system. I am using windows tablet and foobar2k for playback, while it operated by battery both my DAC (nano and Matrix Mini-i pro) produced no noise. However, if I charged the tablets while playing music, my amps (1 tube, 1 SS and 1 SS head amp) all pick up 'charging noise' from both DAC, with Nano produced louder noise than Matrix (both in RCA, but matrix's noise is lesser than RCA when using balanced XLR interconnect).
  
 At first I thought the noise was from USB power so I swap around USB cable that i got (wireworld ultraviolet 7, free USB cable from both DAC, sealed +5v printer cable) and the noise still there. I am pretty sure it is noise from notebook power adaptor as it goes off when I unplug the power adaptor.
  
 Since my windows tablet powercord is 3 prong (which mean the negative and ground linked) I use 2 prong to 3 prong adaptor so that the earth from my power conditioner is not connected to the tablet charger. By doing so the charging noise gone.
  
 However, if I turn the volume of my amp (particularly tube amp) at around, say 12 o'clock and paused the playback. I can still hear some very light noise, but constant noise (the charging noise is like radio with no broadcast received), and Nano is still louder than Matrix.
  
 I don't know this is due to simplified design of isolation due to limitation of size or Nano is designed for portable used, but I simply hope that it is due to other issue, as I really like this Nano. I ever done side by side comparison of Nano and Chord Hugo as DAC to Schiit Mjolnir and feeding my LCD 2.2, Nano is better match to Schiit Mjolnir than Chord Hugo as Hugo produced muddy bass.


----------



## technobear

burdie said:


> Recently I used my Nano for RCA line out to my home system. I am using windows tablet and foobar2k for playback, while it operated by battery both my DAC (nano and Matrix Mini-i pro) produced no noise. However, if I charged the tablets while playing music, my amps (1 tube, 1 SS and 1 SS head amp) all pick up 'charging noise' from both DAC, with Nano produced louder noise than Matrix (both in RCA, but matrix's noise is lesser than RCA when using balanced XLR interconnect).
> 
> At first I thought the noise was from USB power so I swap around USB cable that i got (wireworld ultraviolet 7, free USB cable from both DAC, sealed +5v printer cable) and the noise still there. I am pretty sure it is noise from notebook power adaptor as it goes off when I unplug the power adaptor.
> 
> ...




Your problem is called an 'Earth Loop' and has nothing to do with the Nano iDSD.

You can cure it by breaking the earth loop as you have done with the 2 prong to 3 prong adaptor.

A decent USB isolator will also break the Earth Loop:

http://electronics-shop.dk/galvanically-usb_isolation (USB 1.1 only)

Alternatively this USB power supply has an Earth Loop break switch:

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/


----------



## burdie

technobear said:
			
		

> n/img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Your problem is called an 'Earth Loop' and has nothing to do with the Nano iDSD.
> ...


 
 I already cure it with 2 prong to 3 prong adaptor (please refer to my previous post), but it still produce light noise/hiss
 My problem is actually when there is earth loop (direct 3 prong or 2 prong to 3 prong adaptor but less noise), the noise is actually higher on Nano iDSD. For example, when pause the playback, the noise can be heard and Nano iDSD noise at 12 o'clock is the same level as the noise of my other DAC at 2 o'clock.
 However, when my tablet runs on internal battery, there is no noise on both DAC.


----------



## john57

The remaining noise is coming from the switching power supply from the charger. Using a linear power supply will offer less noise.


----------



## Kane Williams

Can the iDSD work with Fostex Audio Player software? Has anyone used this at all? It's free and is for Mac and Win. Native DSD for Win and DoP for Mac.


----------



## Kane Williams

Btw, the Fostex HPA4 has the same DAC chip as used in the top of the line Ifi iDSD Micro But in the UK is half the price of the Micro. Wonder how it compared sonically?


----------



## diamondears

Anybody here liking the iFi nano iDSD bit more than the micro iDSD? I'm serious.


----------



## Kane Williams

I've not tried either but be interested to hear what you prefer about the Nano over the Micro? Is it the DAC section or the Headphone amp or both?


----------



## Robert777

My apologies if this has been answered already, but I have a question I am hoping someone can help me with. I have been reading through the thread but I am new to head fi and a lot of the posts are going over my head. I really like the look of the nano iDSD and I would like to support a British company, but is this a worthwhile purchase for me if I am currently only listening to apple lossless music files?
  
 I appreciate any guidance on this matter.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> I've not tried either but be interested to hear what you prefer about the Nano over the Micro? Is it the DAC section or the Headphone amp or both?


 I find the nano with better bass, more full bodied and detailed, more solid (both at Minimum Phase filter, and use both DAC and amp section).


----------



## Kane Williams

Thanks. I am considering the iDSD Nano or the Fostex HP4A. The latter uses the 1173A DAC chip as used in the iDSD Micro where as the Nano uses the lower spec 1172A. The Nano has battery power, which I believe makes a difference with SQ but the Fostex has other inputs besides USB. If I were to not be looking fit a portable solution, then I would want a RMA BearBeast which uses the 1174 chip. The Nano is my front runner at the moment but I'd love to hear from anyone who has used both it and the Fostex.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> Thanks. I am considering the iDSD Nano or the Fostex HP4A. The latter uses the 1173A DAC chip as used in the iDSD Micro where as the Nano uses the lower spec 1172A. The Nano has battery power, which I believe makes a difference with SQ but the Fostex has other inputs besides USB. If I were to not be looking fit a portable solution, then I would want a RMA BearBeast which uses the 1174 chip. The Nano is my front runner at the moment but I'd love to hear from anyone who has used both it and the Fostex.


 No. Both nano and micro use the DSD1793 DAC chip, but the micro uses dual DAC chips.


----------



## ljbrandt

kane williams said:


> Can the iDSD work with Fostex Audio Player software? Has anyone used this at all? It's free and is for Mac and Win. Native DSD for Win and DoP for Mac.


 
 I just tried...unfortunately I can't get anything to playback using the Nano and the fostex audio player.  There is a device selection drop-down bar which is blank - when I click on it, more blank.  I'm guessing the software was only designed to be used with the Fostex hardware, which is a shame because I like its simplicity!


----------



## Kane Williams

ljbrandt said:


> I just tried...unfortunately I can't get anything to playback using the Nano and the fostex audio player.  There is a device selection drop-down bar which is blank - when I click on it, more blank.  I'm guessing the software was only designed to be used with the Fostex hardware, which is a shame because I like its simplicity!




That's a shame. I've sent a message to Ifi to ask if it's possible they could write something to make it compatible. Long shot but you never know!


----------



## diamondears

diamondears said:


> Deleted.


----------



## SubSTI

Finally received the OTA update to Lollipop 5.01 on my stock 2013 Wifi Nexus 7, hoping that USB audio support was in place for the iFi Nano iDSD..... Not!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Can't find anything to switch this functionality on or off, any suggestions?


----------



## Kalavere

substi said:


> Finally received the OTA update to Lollipop 5.01 on my stock 2013 Wifi Nexus 7, hoping that USB audio support was in place for the iFi Nano iDSD..... Not!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The trouble with the Nexus 7 is it doesn't use the MHL/HDMI standard, it uses SlimPort, so the pins are different. I'm not sure what can be done about that.


----------



## SubSTI

kalavere said:


> The trouble with the Nexus 7 is it doesn't use the MHL/HDMI standard, it uses SlimPort, so the pins are different. I'm not sure what can be done about that.


 
 Thanks for your reply. I did manage to get sound via the Nano, just need to make sure the Nano is turned on before you attach it to the Nexus. Now trying different players to see if there is one which does high-res via the Nano. Used Synology DS player and Onkyo HF player (unstable) but all seem to downsample to 44.1Hz.


----------



## Kane Williams

Can anyone explain how the iDSD handles 32 bit 348kHz when the PCM1792A chip is a 24/192 chip?


----------



## analogsurviver

kane williams said:


> Can anyone explain how the iDSD handles 32 bit 348kHz when the PCM1792A chip is a 24/192 chip?


 
 There is *somewhere* in this "small & short" thread precisely described how iFi tested each and every DAC chip under the sun and found there were relatively vintage chips capable of better performance than published in the manufacturer's data sheet. And used one ( PCM 1792 IIRC ) that could be "persuaded" using most likely overclocking & who knows what else to allow the published performance. Back then verified by another "Doubting Thomas" with solid knowledge of these matters who initially also asked the very same question.
  
 nano iDSD CAN in fact do what is claimed for it.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> Can anyone explain how the iDSD handles 32 bit 348kHz when the PCM1792A chip is a 24/192 chip?




The chip is 1793.


----------



## diamondears

analogsurviver said:


> There is *somewhere* in this "small & short" thread precisely described how iFi tested each and every DAC chip under the sun and found there were relatively vintage chips capable of better performance than published in the manufacturer's data sheet. And used one ( PCM 1792 IIRC ) that could be "persuaded" using most likely overclocking & who knows what else to allow the published performance. Back then verified by another "Doubting Thomas" with solid knowledge of these matters who initially also asked the very same question.
> 
> nano iDSD CAN in fact do what is claimed for it.




IIRC, iFi discovered/invented an XMOS solution to tap an unspecified (not on spec sheet) capability that's built in into the 1793 DAC chip. IIRC, they can do that to other chips as well but the 1793 is the one they chose due to the excellent sound coming out of it. 

Maybe that's why they're the only ones who can do Octa-speed, the XMOS is exclusively theirs?


----------



## Kane Williams

Sorry, you are right, it is the 1173. Btw, I'm not a doubting Thomas, nor was I implying Ifi were lying, I was just curious how it worked. There is a company called Sabasonic who sell a similar DAC (without battery) that uses a 24/192 Cirrus Logic chip and they also say it does 32/348 as well as DSD natively or DOP. I am going to get an iDSD for sure.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> Sorry, you are right, it is the 1173. Btw, I'm not a doubting Thomas, nor was I implying Ifi were lying, I was just curious how it worked. There is a company called Sabasonic who sell a similar DAC (without battery) that uses a 24/192 Cirrus Logic chip and they also say it does 32/348 as well as DSD natively or DOP. I am going to get an iDSD for sure.




1793...


----------



## Kane Williams

Oh bollocks, I give up! Lol. I'm tired...


----------



## Kane Williams

I wonder what the 1792A would sound like given the XMOS treatment as this is generally touted as the top BB chip, along with the older 1704. 132dB dynamic range sounds nice!


----------



## diamondears

Deleted


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> I wonder what the 1792A would sound like given the XMOS treatment as this is generally touted as the top BB chip, along with the older 1704. 132dB dynamic range sounds nice!



1793 sounds better...


----------



## analogsurviver

kane williams said:


> I wonder what the 1792A would sound like given the XMOS treatment as this is generally touted as the top BB chip, along with the older 1704. 132dB dynamic range sounds nice!


 
 According to iFi+, newer chips are no go - they can not make use of this/similar XMOS treatment. That is why they use this "vintage" PCM1793 chip - it offers things current generation of chips simply lack.


----------



## analogsurviver

diamondears said:


> IIRC, iFi discovered/invented an XMOS solution to tap an unspecified (not on spec sheet) capability that's built in into the 1793 DAC chip. IIRC, they can do that to other chips as well but the 1793 is the one they chose due to the excellent sound coming out of it.
> 
> Maybe that's why they're the only ones who can do Octa-speed, the XMOS is exclusively theirs?


 
 Micro is no longer the only octa speed DSD DAC - for a "small difference" you can get 
  
 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0814/gryphon_audio_designs_kalliope_dac.htm


----------



## diamondears

analogsurviver said:


> According to iFi+, newer chips are no go - they can not make use of this/similar XMOS treatment. That is why they use this "vintage" PCM1793 chip - it offers things current generation of chips simply lack.




Is the PCM1793 the same as the DSD1793 on TI's product list?


----------



## analogsurviver

diamondears said:


> IIRC, iFi discovered/invented an XMOS solution to tap an unspecified (not on spec sheet) capability that's built in into the 1793 DAC chip. IIRC, they can do that to other chips as well but the 1793 is the one they chose due to the excellent sound coming out of it.
> 
> Maybe that's why they're the only ones who can do Octa-speed, the XMOS is exclusively theirs?


 
 True on all counts. Micro uses two DAC chips of the same type, each for one channel in dual mono - and so can reach DSD512 or octa-speed and corresponding DXD.


----------



## Kane Williams

I'm going to order the iDSD tomorrow!


----------



## analogsurviver

diamondears said:


> Is the PCM1793 the same as the DSD1793 on TI's product list?


 
 Frankly, I do not know/remember. The iFi designers have covered this too, but it is burried within the thread...


----------



## john57

analogsurviver said:


> Frankly, I do not know/remember. The iFi designers have covered this too, but it is burried within the thread...


 
 If I can recall the chip being used is not the Ti but the BB chip in Japan before TI took over. That was I led to believe.


----------



## analogsurviver

john57 said:


> If I can recall the chip being used is not the Ti but the BB chip in Japan before TI took over. That was I led to believe.


 
 Great memory - thanks for reminder !


----------



## pokenguyen

Can iFi Nano iDSD drive HD650 well? I want to purchase HD650 but don't have money left for another amp (will buy later for sure).
  
 EDIT: it has enough power to drive at 4 o'clock volume.


----------



## technobear

The DAC chip in the nano iDSD is a Burr Brown DSD1793.

These are NOT the same as PCM1793.

The DSD1793 was designed before TI took over Burr Brown.

The DSD1793 plays PCM natively.

The DSD1793 plays DSD natively.

Many other chips convert DSD to PCM. This is generally a bad idea.

The micro iDSD used two DSD1793 chips.

If you go to post number 1 of the micro iDSD crowd design thread, you will find a list of links to key posts within that thread with information about the various design features of the iDSD including why the DSD1793 was chosen:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-3-show-a-little-leg-what-is-it-page-132#post_10383226


----------



## Kalavere

pokenguyen said:


> Can iFi Nano iDSD drive HD650 well? I want to purchase HD650 but don't have money left for another amp (will buy later for sure).
> 
> EDIT: it has enough power to drive at 4 o'clock volume.


 
  
 I have some high impedance 'phones, the Bayer DT 700's, they are 250Ω, the iFi Nano iDSD doesn't drive these to my satisfaction at even 100% volume. I wouldn't suggest using the Nano with 300Ω heaphones without using some sort of amplification. 
  
 I'm currently looking into a Shiit Lyr 2 for my iDSD, that thing will drive any headphone going.


----------



## hennezzy

Is this better than the JDS labs c5d?


----------



## diamondears

kalavere said:


> I have some high impedance 'phones, the Bayer DT 700's, they are 250Ω, the iFi Nano iDSD doesn't drive these to my satisfaction at even 100% volume. I wouldn't suggest using the Nano with 300Ω heaphones without using some sort of amplification.
> 
> I'm currently looking into a Shiit Lyr 2 for my iDSD, that thing will drive any headphone going.



IME, whatever the nano cannot drive to super loud volumes, the micro iDSD can. nano iDSD is 1.65Vrms. micro iDSD is 10/5.5/2Vrms (Turbo-Normal-Eco Power modes, respectively). It's more expensive though. Nano is US$200, micro is US$500. IME/IMO, you get more than you paid for on both. I have both, btw.


----------



## Kane Williams

hennezzy said:


> Is this better than the JDS labs c5d?




Well, that's impossible for me to say as I've not tried either yet but if you intend to play DSD or DXD files and would like to do so natively, without conversion to PCM, the the iDSD is the only choice of these 2.

Check out the Saybasonic DAC's as alternatives if you don't need battery power (USB bus powered as well as wall wart).

I am planning to get the iDSD Nano myself.


----------



## technobear

kalavere said:


> pokenguyen said:
> 
> 
> > Can iFi Nano iDSD drive HD650 well? I want to purchase HD650 but don't have money left for another amp (will buy later for sure).
> ...




Impedance is only part of the story. You cannot say that it won't drive any 300 ohm headphones. It will drive the 600 ohm beyerdynamic T1 very nicely.

It depends on the sensitivity of the headphone. The T1 is 102dB/mW. I can't find a spec for the DT700 but I would expect it to be in the mid 90's so yes more power needed.

The nano will drive all the beyerdynamic T series headphones.


----------



## Kalavere

technobear said:


> Impedance is only part of the story. You cannot say that it won't drive any 300 ohm headphones. It will drive the 600 ohm beyerdynamic T1 very nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Ah, right. I'm clearly not 100% au fait with headphones and amplification. I figured the higher the ohm, the higher the resistance, period. Thanks for clearing that up.

Maybe i just like my music louder, but I wouldn't be happier with a set of headphones that were any quieter than my DT 770's.


----------



## Kane Williams

If DSD not important, have a look at Leaf Audio portable PCM1794 headphone DAC. Also runs on rechargeable batteries (4xAA's) and has a bit more power in headphone amp.

There are lots of options out there in PCM land but not many in DSD land!


----------



## diamondears

kalavere said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Impedance is only part of the story. You cannot say that it won't drive any 300 ohm headphones. It will drive the 600 ohm beyerdynamic T1 very nicely.
> ...




Technobear is correct. Sensitivity is a much bigger factor than the impedance of the HP.


----------



## ellevoid

Between iPhone + iDSD vs iPod + iDSD. Which combination has a better sound quality?


----------



## diamondears

ellevoid said:


> Between iPhone + iDSD vs iPod + iDSD. Which combination has a better sound quality?




Depends on the model, I guess.


----------



## diamondears

Spent quite some time in the car with my iFi nano iDSD...its really amazing...the bass articulation and detail is unsurpassed for its size and price, never monotonous even with the sub-bass...then the silky mids and treble without losing details...wow.


----------



## Kalavere

I just got a Shiit Lyr 2 to go with my Nano iDSD but I'm having issues with noise from the amp side of things. The Nano is silent when at 100% volume on it's own but as soon as I connect it to the Lyr 2 I get a _lot _of hissing past 12 o'clock. If I connect the Nano & Lyr 2 to a battery powered device, laptop, tablet, phone it's perfectly quiet.
  
 I can only assume it's the USB port from my PC? What are my options for cleaning up the power, the iFi iUSB looks like an option, will that clean up the noise for me?


----------



## ClieOS

kalavere said:


> I just got a Shiit Lyr 2 to go with my Nano iDSD but I'm having issues with noise from the amp side of things. The Nano is silent when at 100% volume on it's own but as soon as I connect it to the Lyr 2 I get a _lot _of hissing past 12 o'clock. If I connect the Nano & Lyr 2 to a battery powered device, laptop, tablet, phone it's perfectly quiet.
> 
> I can only assume it's the USB port from my PC? What are my options for cleaning up the power, the iFi iUSB looks like an option, will that clean up the noise for me?


 
  
 It is most likely a ground loop. Basically there is an unwanted potential difference between Lyr 2 and the rest of the setup. There are several ways to break up ground loop and some might or might not work for you. Sometime as simple as using a different power socket is enough to eliminate the problem, while other time you might need a ground loop isolator somewhere in the setup, such as iUSB.


----------



## burdie

kalavere said:


> I just got a Shiit Lyr 2 to go with my Nano iDSD but I'm having issues with noise from the amp side of things. The Nano is silent when at 100% volume on it's own but as soon as I connect it to the Lyr 2 I get a _lot _of hissing past 12 o'clock. If I connect the Nano & Lyr 2 to a battery powered device, laptop, tablet, phone it's perfectly quiet.
> 
> I can only assume it's the USB port from my PC? What are my options for cleaning up the power, the iFi iUSB looks like an option, will that clean up the noise for me?


 
 I am facing the same problem before, my Nano iDSD is produced *more noise* than my desktop DAC when my tablet is powered by the stock smps adaptor, it will be dead silent when I used built-in battery to power up my tablet. My problem actually resolved by using 2 prong to 3 prong adaptor (my smps adaptor is 3 prong, the earth is connected to the negative inside the power supply, hmmm read somewhere from the net but don't know true or not) so that the earth is not connected to the power supply and hence reduced the ground loop.
 However, there are some noise (like AC hum) remains with my tube amp but very light, and my solid state amps (1 for speaker and 1 for headphone) have no noise at all. Playback via other source (CDP) also obtained the same results, so I start to believe that the tube things (my tube amp, your Lyr 2 tube preamp?) is the culprit, may be the transformer or the capacitor inside the tube amp, or may be due to I stacking the tube amp with its power supply, but definitely not the tube itself, I rolled 2 sets but all with same noise 
 Anyway, worth pointing out that Nano iDSD a bit poor in handling USB noise as it produces louder noise than other DAC I have. May be its cheaper price can compensate you to get ipurifier (which I already did, waiting for it to arrive). iUSB deals with clean 5V to your DAC, since Nano iDSD is self-powered the clean 5V from iUSB may not help. The potential problem is the ground loop from smps power supply which also affected the USB data lines, ipurifier may help to filter it. (cannot confirm until I receive my ipurifier


----------



## ClieOS

> ...May be its cheaper price can compensate you to get ipurifier (which I already did, waiting for it to arrive)


 
 iPurifier is mainly designed to filter out EMI, not power noise. If the power noise is low enough in frequency, iPurifier won't really do much to improve it.


----------



## Kalavere

clieos said:


> iPurifier is mainly designed to filter out EMI, not power noise. If the power noise is low enough in frequency, iPurifier won't really do much to improve it.


 
  
  
 Do you think the iUSB Power would clean the noise? For the £175 price tag, I'm wondering if it wouldn't just be easier to replace the Nano with another DAC like the Shiit Bitfrost in the hopes it'll sort out the issue. The price of the Nano and iUSB Power is near as damned that of the Bitfrost.
  
 *Edit*
  
 It looks like the Schiit Wyrd does exactly what I need for £95 less than the iUSB Power, I'm going to pick one up and see if it solves my problem.


----------



## burdie

clieos said:


> iPurifier is mainly designed to filter out EMI, not power noise. If the power noise is low enough in frequency, iPurifier won't really do much to improve it.


 
 I know, But my problem is actually the power noise transmitted via USB data line, not USB power line, as I put a tape over +5V on the USB cable yet there is still noise transmitted to my DAC (both DAC self-powered). Read from internet that the SMPS adaptor of notebook will create such ground loop over USB data line as well. Since iPurifier deal with USB data cleaning, may be it helps? I don't know, still waiting for my order to come (my main purpose is to see the SQ will improve or not, but also try on ground looping things)
  


kalavere said:


> Do you think the iUSB Power would clean the noise? For the £175 price tag, I'm wondering if it wouldn't just be easier to replace the Nano with another DAC like the Shiit Bitfrost in the hopes it'll sort out the issue. The price of the Nano and iUSB Power is near as damned that of the Bitfrost.


 
 Your case might be similar to my case as power noise transmitted via USB data line, Don't think by providing clean power from iUSB will help as Nano iDSD does not required such clean power since it is self-powered via internal battery, which is very clean. (I could be wrong.)
  
 I actually borrowed a linear power supply (car battery charger) which provide selectable 12/14V linear power (my tablet need 12V) and I modified a right size of DC plug to charge my tablet while playing audio file. And it is proven that both of my DACs do not pick up any noise. Such linear power power supply is very expensive especially custom made for audiophile. In my case, problem resolved by adding 1 dollar china made 2 to 3 prong adaptor between my power conditioner and notebook smps adaptor. Please try this first if your notebook adaptor is 3 prong, before you invest into expensive ground loop isolator / linear power supply.


----------



## ClieOS

kalavere said:


> Do you think the iUSB Power would clean the noise? For the £175 price tag, I'm wondering if it wouldn't just be easier to replace the Nano with another DAC like the Shiit Bitfrost in the hopes it'll sort out the issue. The price of the Nano and iUSB Power is near as damned that of the Bitfrost.
> 
> *Edit*
> 
> It looks like the Schiit Wyrd does exactly what I need for £95 less than the iUSB Power, I'm going to pick one up and see if it solves my problem.


 
  
 If it is indeed ground loop between the PC and Lyr 2, then likely yes. There is no way to tell until you try it.
  


burdie said:


> I know, But my problem is actually the power noise transmitted via USB data line, not USB power line, as I put a tape over +5V on the USB cable yet there is still noise transmitted to my DAC (both DAC self-powered). Read from internet that the SMPS adaptor of notebook will create such ground loop over USB data line as well. Since iPurifier deal with USB data cleaning, may be it helps? I don't know, still waiting for my order to come (my main purpose is to see the SQ will improve or not, but also try on ground looping things)
> 
> Your case might be similar to my case as *power noise transmitted via USB data line*, Don't think by providing clean power from iUSB will help as Nano iDSD does not required such clean power since it is self-powered via internal battery, which is very clean. (I could be wrong.)
> 
> I actually borrowed a linear power supply (car battery charger) which provide selectable 12/14V linear power (my tablet need 12V) and I modified a right size of DC plug to charge my tablet while playing audio file. And it is proven that both of my DACs do not pick up any noise. Such linear power power supply is very expensive especially custom made for audiophile. In my case, problem resolved by adding 1 dollar china made 2 to 3 prong adaptor between my power conditioner and notebook smps adaptor. Please try this first if your notebook adaptor is 3 prong, before you invest into expensive ground loop isolator / linear power supply.


 
  
 Only if the noise from the data line is above USB transmission bandwidth ( or more precisely, well above iPurifier's lowpass filter) that it will be filtered out. Most switching power noise will not be that high (if it is, very likely you won't hear it in the first place). If it is ground loop, what is needed is isolation on both power and data line, which iPurifier isn't. As I have said, there can be many reason why ground loop exists - some are simple to fix, some ain't.
  
 p/s ground loop isolator are not all expensive. It depends on the type.


----------



## Kalavere

burdie said:


> In my case, problem resolved by adding 1 dollar china made 2 to 3 prong adaptor between my power conditioner and notebook smps adaptor. Please try this first if your notebook adaptor is 3 prong, before you invest into expensive ground loop isolator / linear power supply.


 
  
 I've already got the Schiit Wyrd coming tomorrow. I'll see if that does the job.


----------



## diamondears

kalavere said:


> I've already got the Schiit Wyrd coming tomorrow. I'll see if that does the job.




Whats happening now in this iFi nano iDSD thread is not only wyrd, but full of schiit.


----------



## burdie

clieos said:


> If it is indeed ground loop between the PC and Lyr 2, then likely yes. There is no way to tell until you try it.
> 
> 
> Only if the noise from the data line is above USB transmission bandwidth ( or more precisely, well above iPurifier's lowpass filter) that it will be filtered out. Most switching power noise will not be that high (if it is, very likely you won't hear it in the first place). If it is ground loop, what is needed is isolation on both power and data line, which iPurifier isn't. As I have said, there can be many reason why ground loop exists - some are simple to fix, some ain't.
> ...


 
 I only 'aware' of the noise when I used Nano iDSD for my desktop setup as suddenly hear the loud weird noise came out from my speaker. The noise is not noticeable on my desktop DAC if I don't (1) placed my ear very near to the speaker (2) if the volume is below 12 o'clock. Below is some findings other than Nano produced louder noise with the smps charging windows tablet
 (i) balanced output from my Desktop DAC produced much less data line noise than SE output
 (ii) both my samsung tablet and acer laptop 'contributed' the same noise while charging, both using stock chargers plus one toshiba charger. almost all switching power will produce high noise, it has proven its audio contamination in so many forums and that is why there are many solutions (isolator, lpsu etc) out there. 
  
 p/s isolator I was referring to toroidal transformer based isolator (power only), the signal line passive isolator is cheaper option which I may give it a try, but the balanced model for some famous brand is costing USD$300 or more, and some cheapo brand that asking for USD$60 don't know will serve the purpose or not
  
 Edit:
 Friend confirmed that his Lenovo & Dell laptop also produced charging noise, so it is almost confirmed that most top brands of laptop using smps that produced high noise. How I wish there is low noise smps for laptop which I can find. I am even thinking to add LM7812 to step down DC19v from any extra smps charger to linear regulated DC12v, but required more components to make it minimum 3A and stable.


----------



## ClieOS

Not all switching power produces high noise. A really good audio purpose switching power can produce much less noise than the ears can ever hear. It is all in the design. Of course most of them are not really that cheap either.


----------



## ellevoid

Maybe it's a noise from USB port.


----------



## Kalavere

Okay, so the Shiit Wyrd does literally, nothing. I have exactly the same humming. I'm convinced it's USB noise, as when the Nano is connected to a battery powered device like my phone or tablet there is no noise, at all. I've got a decent shielded RCA lead coming currently all of my leads are phono to DIN for use with Naim Hi-Fi; but again it still eliminates noise when I use a battery powered device so it can't be that. 
  

  
  
 Is my only other option is a ground loop isolator? What does this do exactly?


----------



## Kane Williams

I have this when I use my Macbook Pro with my Firewire recoding interface. If the power cable is disconnected from the laptop so it is running from battery then the noise goes away. It's a power thing effecting the bus. Try another socket on the wall.


----------



## Kalavere

kane williams said:


> I have this when I use my Macbook Pro with my Firewire recoding interface. If the power cable is disconnected from the laptop so it is running from battery then the noise goes away. It's a power thing effecting the bus. Try another socket on the wall.


 
 I've tried another socket with nothing in it, I use an extension lead with my PC, I have loads plugged into it, PC, two monitors, TV, two amps, Printer, etc etc, even moving to a plug on the other side of the room with nothing in it makes any difference. 
  
 Mark from http://www.electromod.co.uk has kindly said he'd loan me another DAC in the form of the Schiit Modi after I've tried a ground loop isoloator to see if it cures my problems.


----------



## Kane Williams

It sounds like it's the power supply. Same on my laptop, when plugged in, lots of noise, when on battery, silence. Not saying the PSU is faulty just passing on noise to USB buss.
  
 Have you tried earthing the PC?


----------



## Kalavere

kane williams said:


> It sounds like it's the power supply. Same on my laptop, when plugged in, lots of noise, when on battery, silence. Not saying the PSU is faulty just passing on noise to USB buss.
> 
> Have you tried earthing the PC?


 
  
 I haven't no but I've seen a good, simple video on YouTube about how to do it via an unused USB port. I have an extremely good quality PC, I built it myself with the best components I could get hold of at the time. I have a very decent Corsair AX860 80+ Platinum PSU and an ASUS Maximus VI Formula motherboard. Im thinking of maybe trying a PCI-e USB 3.0 card, they come in at about £30 an it might be a cheap alternative for cleaning up my USB port if I use it solely for the Nano. What do you think?


----------



## Kane Williams

It's hard to say for sure if it will work but there's a good chance. PC's are notoriously problematic with regard to noise, but usually EMI because there's lots of things in it producing it. The USB purifier you have is meant to clean most of that up so may be it is simply an earth issue. Try earthing the PC case and see what happens


----------



## ellevoid

Try plugging your usb dac to the farthest usb port away from power jack. 
  
 I use MacBook Air and plugging iDSD to usb port on the right side away from power jack. No issue from usb noise.


----------



## diamondears

Buy a USB cable where the power and signal are separated.


----------



## Kane Williams

diamondears said:


> Buy a USB cable where the power and signal are separated.




If one is going to use the iDSD Nano with its own battery, will it still deliver a cleaner signal using a split USB cable or does power only travel along a USB cable if a device is drawing power. If you know what I mean?


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> If one is going to use the iDSD Nano with its own battery, will it still deliver a cleaner signal using a split USB cable or does power only travel along a USB cable if a device is drawing power. If you know what I mean?




Doesn't matter if you're using battery.


----------



## Kane Williams

diamondears said:


> Doesn't matter if you're using battery.




Do you mean the split cable is irrelevant if you are using the battery or do you mean the split cable will help if you are using the battery or not?

Thanks


----------



## Kane Williams

Does anyone in Europe want to sell their Nano iDSD by any chance?


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> Do you mean the split cable is irrelevant if you are using the battery or do you mean the split cable will help if you are using the battery or not?
> 
> Thanks




Noise comes from the power signal from PC to nano iDSD. So separating power signal from data signal will help a lot. So if you use battery of the nano iDSD this will be unnecessary.


----------



## burdie

diamondears said:


> Noise comes from the power signal from PC to nano iDSD. So separating power signal from data signal will help a lot. So if you use battery of the nano iDSD this will be unnecessary.


 
 Noise still passing through data line (D+,D-) even with USB separated power signal from data signal, as D+ & D- still draw about 3.3V. I think this 3.3V is coming from the same PSU that providing the 5V to your USB port, and if there is ground loop issue then noise still pass on to nano iDSD via D+ D-. Try either earthing the PC or isolated earth from power socket (this one works on laptop PSU) first before invest into linear power supply or ground loop isolator.


----------



## diamondears

burdie said:


> Noise still passing through data line (D+,D-) even with USB separated power signal from data signal, as D+ & D- still draw about 3.3V. I think this 3.3V is coming from the same PSU that providing the 5V to your USB port, and if there is ground loop issue then noise still pass on to nano iDSD via D+ D-. Try either earthing the PC or isolated earth from power socket (this one works on laptop PSU) first before invest into linear power supply or ground loop isolator.




Try a USB isolator. It's really cheap.


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Try a USB isolator. It's really cheap.


 
  
 One catch - there is no cheap high speed USB 2.0 isolator actually. The cheap one is 'full speed' only. The difference is, you have to use high speed in order for playback above 24/96. Any real high speed USB 2.0 isolator is pretty much going to be industry grade and mainly designed to protect high end setup (like server and such), and they do cost an arm and a leg, if not more. A cheap consumer grade USB isolator might not actually work with iDSD nano, or at least will severally limit its function.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> One catch - there is no cheap high speed USB 2.0 isolator actually. The cheap one is 'full speed' only. The difference is, you have to use high speed in order for playback above 24/96. Any real high speed USB 2.0 isolator is pretty much going to be industry grade and mainly designed to protect high end setup (like server and such), and they do cost an arm and a leg, if not more. A cheap consumer grade USB isolator might not actually work with iDSD nano, or at least will severally limit its function.




Yeah, you're correct. Mine is USB 1.0. Didn't know a USB 2.0 could be that much expensive.

Just get a micro iDSD then...


----------



## burdie

diamondears said:


> Try a USB isolator. It's really cheap.


 
 I try to use firestone greenkey (a.k.a. cheap USB isolator) but it doesn't work under win 8.1, no data transmitted (even 16/44) to my DAC but my DAC detect by my win 8.1 tablet and appear under sound card device.


----------



## diamondears

burdie said:


> I try to use firestone greenkey (a.k.a. cheap USB isolator) but it doesn't work under win 8.1, no data transmitted (even 16/44) to my DAC but my DAC detect by my win 8.1 tablet and appear under sound card device.



Just wait for a while, save money, and just get a micro iDSD which have a built in USB isolator (Am I correct clieOS?).


----------



## burdie

diamondears said:


> Just wait for a while, save money, and just get a micro iDSD which have a built in USB isolator (Am I correct clieOS?).


 
 micro iDSD built in ipurifier, If need just want to have additional ipurifier on micro iDSD (but not other features), buy a standalone ipurifier and use it on nano iDSD will save you a lot of money.


----------



## diamondears

burdie said:


> micro iDSD built in ipurifier, If need just want to have additional ipurifier on micro iDSD (but not other features), buy a standalone ipurifier and use it on nano iDSD will save you a lot of money.




IIRC, you'll save just a little. 

But why is it that I e never experienced this noise on my nano iDSD on my Mac? This issue is on PC only?


----------



## Kane Williams

Do you have a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) by any chance? You could try switching this off at the socket so it powers the PC via its battery for a few mins to see if the noise goes away. This way, you will know if it's an earth loop problem (I think)?


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Just wait for a while, save money, and just get a micro iDSD which have a built in USB isolator (Am I correct clieOS?).


 
  
 Well, iDSD micro has iPurifier built-in, but not a full spec USB isolator. It does however has more sophisticated power filter that should be much more immune to noise.


----------



## burdie

diamondears said:


> IIRC, you'll save just a little.
> 
> But why is it that I e never experienced this noise on my nano iDSD on my Mac? This issue is on PC only?


 
 nano iDSD + ipurifier = $288, micro iDSD=$499, a different of $211. If other features are not required (such as DSD512 etc), still consider a lot, not little.
  
 As to why your MAC no noise but our PC got noise, I don't think it is something to do with Apple vs Wintel. One guy said (post 995) his Macbook Pro also have the same charging noise.
 As to my case, when I use Nano iDSD as headphone amp (from its headphone out directly drive my iem), I don't pick up any noise. But if I use its RCA output to my headphone amp or speaker amp, such noise will be there if I charge the tablet while doing playback. The other guy faced the same problem with his Schiit Lyr 2, and my headphone amp is Schiit Mjolnir. So i think there is few possibilities:
 (1) Schiit and ifi somehow not happy with each other and somehow their product incompatible to each other (just kidding)
 (2) Lyr2 rated 6 watts into 32 ohms and Mjolnir rated 8 watts into 32 ohms, may be the noise has been amplified to a noticeable level
 (3) your wall outlet are not connected to the earth or your Mac have no earth connection


----------



## diamondears

burdie said:


> nano iDSD + ipurifier = $288, micro iDSD=$499, a different of $211. If other features are not required (such as DSD512 etc), still consider a lot, not little.
> 
> As to why your MAC no noise but our PC got noise, I don't think it is something to do with Apple vs Wintel. One guy said (post 995) his Macbook Pro also have the same charging noise.
> As to my case, when I use Nano iDSD as headphone amp (from its headphone out directly drive my iem), I don't pick up any noise. But if I use its RCA output to my headphone amp or speaker amp, such noise will be there if I charge the tablet while doing playback. The other guy faced the same problem with his Schiit Lyr 2, and my headphone amp is Schiit Mjolnir. So i think there is few possibilities:
> ...




No. 3. Benefits of having a bad electrical system...


----------



## Kalavere

kane williams said:


> Does anyone in Europe want to sell their Nano iDSD by any chance?



 


Mine may well be up for sale come the New Year.


----------



## diamondears

kalavere said:


> kane williams said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone in Europe want to sell their Nano iDSD by any chance?
> ...




I find the nano iDSD perfect for the car. I got into head-fi actually just looking to connect my iPhone to the Aux in of my car. The best attribute of the nano iDSD is the bass articulation. Wonderful non-monotonous bass...and it digs deep!


----------



## Kane Williams

Already bought one from another Head Fi member! Thanks for the offer, will shift it no problem.


----------



## Kalavere

diamondears said:


> I find the nano iDSD perfect for the car. I got into head-fi actually just looking to connect my iPhone to the Aux in of my car. The best attribute of the nano iDSD is the bass articulation. Wonderful non-monotonous bass...and it digs deep!


 
  
 I use bluetooth from my Note III in the car. I use a combination of my head unit & Moto 360 to change tracks, mostly the head unit, so connecting up phono leads and pulling my stereo out isn't something I can really be bothered with!


kane williams said:


> Already bought one from another Head Fi member! Thanks for the offer, will shift it no problem.


  

 No problem. I've kinda got my eye on the Bifrost at the moment, I might have to have a look into it in the New Year.


----------



## diamondears

kalavere said:


> I use bluetooth from my Note III in the car. I use a combination of my head unit & Moto 360 to change tracks, mostly the head unit, so connecting up phono leads and pulling my stereo out isn't something I can really be bothered with!
> No problem. I've kinda got my eye on the Bifrost at the moment, I might have to have a look into it in the New Year.




SQ degraded a bit with Bluetooth. With iFi nano iDSD, you connect the 3.5mm HO out to the aux in, max out the volume of the nano iDSD, and it's unbelievable.


----------



## Kane Williams

Quick question. The iDSD has a USB3 connector on, which know operates at USB2 spec but will a USB 2 cable work? I've never used a USB 3 device. I have a USB 3 cable in any case but just curious. BTW, I'm not sure I buy the high end usb cable hype. I mean, I understand that a well made cable with good shielding could help keep out RFI (even if that matters with USB data) but I certainly don't buy the need for cables costing more than say £25.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> Quick question. The iDSD has a USB3 connector on, which know operates at USB2 spec but will a USB 2 cable work? I've never used a USB 3 device. I have a USB 3 cable in any case but just curious. BTW, I'm not sure I buy the high end usb cable hype. I mean, I understand that a well made cable with good shielding could help keep out RFI (even if that matters with USB data) but I certainly don't buy the need for cables costing more than say £25.




IMHO and IME, USB cables costing around US$50 is worth it. Good quality + the type of wire used + separate power and digital signals are WORTH IT. More than that it's just snake oil IMHO.

For example, the USB cable provided by iFi in the nano iDSD sounds "metallic", for lack of better term. My Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 sounds less metallic and substantially clearer, or more vivid, with bit more bass and bass body. My Furutech G2 sounds less clear, but it has even a bit more bass body and adds a bit of "sparkle". My Oyaide Neo d+ Class S has the same bass and bass body, but is much less metallic without losing treble details and with treble details sounding more natural---what you hear live. This is my favorite USB cable. Your digital media will never sound digital again. Must try.


----------



## Kane Williams

I agree and £50 is about £30, so we were roughly on the same page! Can you recommend a cable in that price range? As I am using the iDSD mainly via its own battery power, I'm still not clear if a cable with split signal and power is needed, but I think it is still probably advisable.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> I agree and £50 is about £30, so we were roughly on the same page! Can you recommend a cable in that price range? As I am using the iDSD mainly via its own battery power, I'm still not clear if a cable with split signal and power is needed, but I think it is still probably advisable.



I recommend the USB cables I mentioned in that order, with the last (Oyaide Neo d+ Class S) being the no. 1 recommendation. It has no silver, and uses PCOCC-A copper. The best copper IMHO. Furutech G2 uses PCOCC-A also and is silver plated. Ultraviolet 7 is plain OFC copper and silver plated.


----------



## Kane Williams

Thanks. Do these fit the USB3 port on the iDSD? Will all USB2 cables fit in the blue USB 3 port? They look different from memory.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> Thanks. Do these fit the USB3 port on the iDSD? Will all USB2 cables fit in the blue USB 3 port? They look different from memory.


 

 Hi,
  
 As part of the USB.org specification, the USB 3.0 connection offers backwards compatibility with USB 2.0 connection.
  
 So the nano iDSD's USB 3.0 port will accept USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 cables.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Kane Williams

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> As part of the USB.org specification, the USB 3.0 connection offers backwards compatibility with USB 2.0 connection.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 Does any company make USB cables that don't transfer power, just data? With the iDSD, I won't need power as I'll be using the battery and it will keep the signal free of any potential electrical noise. I know you can get expensive cables that split the signal into power and data, but why not one that just does away with the power? Also, why don't DAC manufacturers put two USN sockets on their DAC's, one to receive power and one for data, this would be a great addition. YOU READ IT HEAR FIRST!


----------



## Dixter

Sure... there is a usb cable that converts the signal to optical...  its called USB 3.Optical cable  
  
 have not tried it with a Nano Idsd....


----------



## Kane Williams

How would the iDSD work with that though, it has no optical input?


----------



## Kane Williams

Also couldn't just a normal USB cable be used with two of the pins removed that take the power?


----------



## Dixter

kane williams said:


> How would the iDSD work with that though, it has no optical input?


 
  
 Decided to give it a try just now...  and it works perfectly..   
  
 I think the way the cable works is there is a digital to optical converter at the computer end and then on the end of the cable there is a optical to digital converter...  no power is delivered to the receiving device so there is no noise coming across the usb cable...  and the Nano or Micro have their own battery power so with the cable connected there is no way any noise can get to the DAC....
  
 The shortest the cable can be purchased is 33 ft but it comes in the package rolled up with a tie that keeps it together...  you just unroll how much you need when using it...
  
 again, this is the USB 3.Optical Cable by Corning if you want to google it...


----------



## Kane Williams

That's interesting. I wonder if jitter will be introduced though, or may be this is irrelevant when converted back to digital? I would not want a massive cable though, although one could be handy in some situations. I'm guessing though that someone will make a data only cable.


----------



## john57

USB 3.Optical Cable by Corning is interesting. It has a bandwidth of 5Gb/s between the end points. It does require 5v available on the USB ends for the convertors.


----------



## Dixter

john57 said:


> USB 3.Optical Cable by Corning is interesting. It has a bandwidth of 5Gb/s between the end points. It does require 5v available on the USB ends for the convertors.


 

 the cable gets 5v at both ends... at the computer usb connector and then at the receiving device usb connector...
 but no power within the cable run... so the cable acts as a filter of noise
  
 with the idsd Nano or Micro being stand alone battery power allows the cable to work with these ...


----------



## john57

dixter said:


> the cable gets 5v at both ends... at the computer usb connector and then at the receiving device usb connector...
> but no power within the cable run... so the cable acts as a filter of noise
> 
> with the idsd Nano or Micro being stand alone battery power allows the cable to work with these ...


 
 Right and you have ground isolation as well with AC powered DAC's This can be a alternative to a Wyrd plus you can have this cable up to 50m or 164 feet is possible.
  
 P.S. You also do not have to worry about Radio frequency interference spreading from the cable either.


----------



## pinoyman

guys, id like to ask those who have tried the IFI NANO. im interested with it, wanting to pair it with my iphone (playing only mp3 files). can you say if the ifi nano is a great sounding dac amp? can anyone compare it to the dx90's sq? pls help. thanks in advance!


----------



## pinoyman

i have an opinion to make...
 wishing ifi would just make the idsd/ifi nano to just connect the lightning usb directly between the igadgets and the nano.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

This is happen with the micro iDSD to connect diretly you lightning USB cable without a short USB type B adapter. Sadly that the nano iDSD has a USB type B port instead of a type A like the micro iDSD.


----------



## Kalavere

pinoyman said:


> i have an opinion to make...
> wishing ifi would just make the idsd/ifi nano to just connect the lightning usb directly between the igadgets and the nano.


 
  
 Why? So they could stop me from using it with my PC, or with my Android phone?


----------



## pinoyman

h1f1add1cted said:


> This is happen with the micro iDSD to connect diretly you lightning USB cable without a short USB type B adapter. Sadly that the nano iDSD has a USB type B port instead of a type A like the micro iDSD.


 

 yeah. it would be hard to keep those connectors connected when moving or in mobile.
 hope they would improve it in the future so that all we will be needing is a simple USB for any phone brands...
 ease of use is a must nowadays


----------



## pinoyman

kalavere said:


> Why? So they could stop me from using it with my PC, or with my Android phone?


 
 that's not what i meant.
 i mean it would be great if we could just use a simple usb to connect it via any phone.
 for mobility. for portability. without the hassle of using many connections and long wires.
 to keep it simple and small.


----------



## Kalavere

pinoyman said:


> that's not what i meant.
> i mean it would be great if we could just use a simple usb to connect it via any phone.
> for mobility. for portability. without the hassle of using many connections and long wires.
> to keep it simple and small.


 
  
 The only issue with using USB B, is the lack of availability of a decent lead. There's a huge gap in the market for USB B to Micro USB and Lightening. I don't know about the technical aspect but there must be a reason for using USB B, most if not all DACs do use USB B.


----------



## pinoyman

kalavere said:


> The only issue with using USB B, is the lack of availability of a decent lead. There's a huge gap in the market for USB B to Micro USB and Lightening. I don't know about the technical aspect but there must be a reason for using USB B, most if not all DACs do use USB B.


 

 yeah.
 how i wish there would be options... out there.


----------



## diamondears

pinoyman said:


> yeah.
> how i wish there would be options... out there.



Buy a Male A to Male B adapter (very cheap), then attach the Apple CCK. The adapter is only 1.5 inch long.


----------



## Kane Williams

From looking a USB cables, I am interested in the A&B Systems one as it splits power and data. However, after more reading it seems all USB cables have 4 conductors, 2 for data and 2 for power, so what does the A&B one do that they don't?


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> From looking a USB cables, I am interested in the A&B Systems one as it splits power and data. However, after more reading it seems all USB cables have 4 conductors, 2 for data and 2 for power, so what does the A&B one do that they don't?




Isolates the power wires from the data wires by getting them farther from and/or putting more insulation against each other.


----------



## Kane Williams

I thought that may be it was to do with shielding.


----------



## Kane Williams

The iDSD only just powers the AKG K7XX. Will try my headphone amp via the iDSD to see how much of an improvement that brings (if any)


----------



## sfo1972

pinoyman said:


> guys, id like to ask those who have tried the IFI NANO. im interested with it, wanting to pair it with my iphone (playing only mp3 files). can you say if the ifi nano is a great sounding dac amp? can anyone compare it to the dx90's sq? pls help. thanks in advance!


 

 The playback of the Nano is substantially better, i would say almost 10+ times better, than the standard iPhone headphone jack. So the rig would consist of the camera USB cable > IFI Nano > Headphones/IEMs. I got mine recently because I was't able to tolerate the harshness and flatness of iTunes music (MP3s) while on the go. I selected the Nano because of all the features of DSD, PCM, High-rate, etc.
  
 The nice thing about the nano is its multi-utility approach. You can use it at work with the laptop, I use Audirvana for hi-res playback. I then hookup the Nano to the iPhone for the commute home which operates on battery power (bonus) and connects through the line out of my iPhone.
  
 I have listened to some of my older music in my library and it seemed like I am hearing the music for the first time. The sound is richer, the bass is deeper, there is a noticeable soundstage, and instruments are airy. All in all, I have been very impressed with the Nano and what it can do. The high-rate that it plays when compared with the Sony PHA2 or 3 is simply impressive.


----------



## diamondears

sfo1972 said:


> The playback of the Nano is substantially better, i would say almost 10+ times better, than the standard iPhone headphone jack. So the rig would consist of the camera USB cable > IFI Nano > Headphones/IEMs. I got mine recently because I was't able to tolerate the harshness and flatness of iTunes music (MP3s) while on the go. I selected the Nano because of all the features of DSD, PCM, High-rate, etc.
> 
> The nice thing about the nano is its multi-utility approach. You can use it at work with the laptop, I use Audirvana for hi-res playback. I then hookup the Nano to the iPhone for the commute home which operates on battery power (bonus) and connects through the line out of my iPhone.
> 
> I have listened to some of my older music in my library and it seemed like I am hearing the music for the first time. The sound is richer, the bass is deeper, there is a noticeable soundstage, and instruments are airy. All in all, I have been very impressed with the Nano and what it can do. The high-rate that it plays when compared with the Sony PHA2 or 3 is simply impressive.




+1. The best integrated DAC-amp at its price and size IMO/IME.


----------



## Kane Williams

I listened to a track I've been making using it and my AKG's last night and it sounded crap! So much so I wonder if I need to start again! This is not the fault of the Ifi or the AKG's, it's my fault for not buying this set up sooner! On a positive note, some of the other tracks I'm working on sounded really good.


----------



## sfo1972

kane williams said:


> I listened to a track I've been making using it and my AKG's last night and it sounded crap! So much so I wonder if I need to start again! This is not the fault of the Ifi or the AKG's, it's my fault for not buying this set up sooner! On a positive note, some of the other tracks I'm working on sounded really good.


 

 I am actually surprised that you used the nano with the AKGs? Is the Nano powerful enough to drive those headphones?
  
 I haven't dug into the specs but I always assumed the Nano should go with efficient monitors and IEMs for good sound.


----------



## Kane Williams

I used the site that checks the specs of the headphones against the amp and says if it should power them or not. The site says yes, so I took the gamble (others also said it would be ok). I realize that it's not just wether it gets enough level out of the cans that counts but I have the volume knob turned to about 85% to get the required level. If I turn it up more, the sound gets a little harsh. Fortunately, they play nicely at the level I listen at, but this is quieter than others will require probably. I also have a separate headphone amp that I will use when final mixing, but for portable use, I'd say it JUST powers them fine.


----------



## Kalavere

kane williams said:


> I used the site that checks the specs of the headphones against the amp and says if it should power them or not.



 


What site is that, out of interest?


----------



## Kane Williams

There are a


kalavere said:


> kane williams said:
> 
> 
> > I used the site that checks the specs of the headphones against the amp and says if it should power them or not.
> ...


 

 There are a few sites that check that an amp has enough juice, but most need you to input the specs, where as this one just has drop down menu for the headphone model and the amp model, which is great if they devices are in the list. Here you go. http://www.audiobot9000.com


----------



## Kane Williams

Does anyone know if it would be possible for a mod to improve the headphone amp a little and add a bit more power?


----------



## ClieOS

kane williams said:


> There are a
> 
> There are a few sites that check that an amp has enough juice, but most need you to input the specs, where as this one just has drop down menu for the headphone model and the amp model, which is great if they devices are in the list. Here you go. http://www.audiobot9000.com


 
  
 That site sometime give the wrong result because they uses the wrong spec, so be careful what you read on them.
  


kane williams said:


> Does anyone know if it would be possible for a mod to improve the headphone amp a little and add a bit more power?


 
  
 No, not really. The amp section uses a single integrated headphone chip (*not an opamp) that can't be easy replaced.


----------



## Kane Williams

Ok, thanks.


----------



## Dixter

kane williams said:


> Does anyone know if it would be possible for a mod to improve the headphone amp a little and add a bit more power?


 

 Not internally moded  but I have mated the O2 amp with the Nano...   to use the Nano you turn on the Nano and adjust the volume knob all the way up...  this turns the Nano into the preamp mode so you are not double amping with this setup....


----------



## Kane Williams

dixter said:


> Not internally moded  but I have mated the O2 amp with the Nano...   to use the Nano you turn on the Nano and adjust the volume knob all the way up...  this turns the Nano into the preamp mode so you are not double amping with this setup....




Yes, I know that's the way to add a separate amp, and I do have a cheap, but decent G&W headphone amp I can use but if it was possible to do without this extra box, it would have been better. I can use the Nano by itself but a better internal amp wilts have been great.


----------



## diamondears

kane williams said:


> Yes, I know that's the way to add a separate amp, and I do have a cheap, but decent G&W headphone amp I can use but if it was possible to do without this extra box, it would have been better. I can use the Nano by itself but a better internal amp wilts have been great.




What do you want to improve on the nano's amp? What HP are you using?


----------



## Kane Williams

AKG 7XX (Massdrop). The amp is adequate but I feel there is no real headroom, so probably being taxed a bit.


----------



## Dixter

kane williams said:


> Yes, I know that's the way to add a separate amp, and I do have a cheap, but decent G&W headphone amp I can use but if it was possible to do without this extra box, it would have been better. I can use the Nano by itself but a better internal amp wilts have been great.


 
 The upgraded Nano with a better amp is called the Micro...


----------



## sfo1972

After having the Nano for a week I wanted to see how it performs in my home setup. I disconnected my existing DAC (Oppo-HA1) from my Lyr2 Hybrid tube Amp and connected the Nano to the Lyr2. The Lyr2 in turn is connected to an Integrated AMP powering tower speakers (Tritons) and I let it rip.
  
 The Nano performed very well. The soundstage is definitely there, good overall detail, and good imaging overall. The Oppo is clearly better in the areas of bass, timber, airy instruments, and vocals.
  
 I realize this is an unfair comparison between the Nano and the Oppo, but I wanted to see how the Nano performs as a desktop DAC and the results are quite amazing. I believe the Micro with its advanced features will be the way to go for those looking for a desktop DAC. Nonetheless, the Nano keeps amazing me with its performance.
  
 It is definitely excellent value for money and as a portable DAC for hi-res music on the go, you can't beat it.


----------



## Kane Williams

dixter said:


> The upgraded Nano with a better amp is called the Micro...


 

 I thought this myself, but that amp is a BIG upgrade, I was just looking for a small upgrade mod.


----------



## diamondears

sfo1972 said:


> After having the Nano for a week I wanted to see how it performs in my home setup. I disconnected my existing DAC (Oppo-HA1) from my Lyr2 Hybrid tube Amp and connected the Nano to the Lyr2. The Lyr2 in turn is connected to an Integrated AMP powering tower speakers (Tritons) and I let it rip.
> 
> The Nano performed very well. The soundstage is definitely there, good overall detail, and good imaging overall. The Oppo is clearly better in the areas of bass, timber, airy instruments, and vocals.
> 
> ...




I actually listened to 2 big branded amps and I found the nano iDSD better than them. I was shocked. I used an iPhone 4s using Onkyo HF Player, and the nano iDSD's DAC to demo the 2 amps. Out of curiousity, I plugged the HP on the nano iDSD's amp out, and I found the sound quality better...noticeably better...it didn't take me a few minutes or so...I recognized it instantly.


----------



## sfo1972

diamondears said:


> I actually listened to 2 big branded amps and I found the nano iDSD better than them. I was shocked. I used an iPhone 4s using Onkyo HF Player, and the nano iDSD's DAC to demo the 2 amps. Out of curiousity, I plugged the HP on the nano iDSD's amp out, and I found the sound quality better...noticeably better...it didn't take me a few minutes or so...I recognized it instantly.


 

 That's really interesting. Just out of curiosity, what were the two AMPs you tried?


----------



## Kalavere

sfo1972 said:


> That's really interesting. Just out of curiosity, what were the two AMPs you tried?


 
  
 Totally unrelated, but, sfo1972, what are your Lyr tubes? =)


----------



## sfo1972

kalavere said:


> Totally unrelated, but, sfo1972, what are your Lyr tubes? =)


 

 When I connected the Nano through the setup I had '72 Voskhod Rockets with about 20+ hours of total burnin time. Right now I am burning in '75 Voskhod Rockets Gray shields - 10 hours total burnin time so far, gotta get it up to 50+ hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Are you into tube rolling? Have you been on the Lyr tube rolling thread? There is a ton of great information on tubes there with a number of veteran tube rollers that are ready to help.


----------



## Kalavere

sfo1972 said:


> When I connected the Nano through the setup I had '72 Voskhod Rockets with about 20+ hours of total burnin time. Right now I am burning in '75 Voskhod Rockets Gray shields - 10 hours total burnin time so far, gotta get it up to 50+ hours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not as of yet, I'm chopping and changing at the moment, I'm waiting on a BiFrost Uber this month, then next I am going for a decent pair of 'phones; maybe March time I'll look into tube rolling, when I have a bit of spare cash. I've been reading into the Telefunken E88CC, I might give them a whirl first. I've been leaving my Lyr on 24/7 at the moment, so I'll be forced to start looking for some tubes shortly, haha. =)


----------



## sfo1972

kalavere said:


> I'm not as of yet, I'm chopping and changing at the moment, I'm waiting on a BiFrost Uber this month, then next I am going for a decent pair of 'phones; maybe March time I'll look into tube rolling, when I have a bit of spare cash. I've been reading into the Telefunken E88CC, I might give them a whirl first. I've been leaving my Lyr on 24/7 at the moment, so I'll be forced to start looking for some tubes shortly, haha. =)


 

 I hear ya...the Lyr is really addicting, especially with decent HPs. I have the Audeze LCD-3s paired up with it and the sound is just amazing.
  
 Enjoy the music my friend!


----------



## Kalavere

sfo1972 said:


> I hear ya...the Lyr is really addicting, especially with decent HPs. I have the Audeze LCD-3s paired up with it and the sound is just amazing.
> 
> Enjoy the music my friend!



 


The Audeze are a little out of my reach, currently! 

I'm going to put aside £500 next month and have a good search. I'm looking into the Beyerdynamic T 90, HiFiMAN HE-400i, Grado RS2e. I found a Hi-Fi shop literally 5 miles down the road from me yesterday, so I'm going to arrange a trail of each of those, the only Audio Technica within my budget they sell is the ATH-AD1000X, I'll look into those, but purely from an aesthetic stand point I'm not over struck!

I like my K550's, but they don't stock AKG, I'd look into the Q701/K7xx otherwise. I'm just looking for a great pairing with the Lyr 2 & BiFrost. I'll have a better idea after I've been to 'Hi-Fi Lounge' next week. 

They sell Naim also, so i might look into picking up a Nap 100 power amp to tie in my B&W's. I haven't been into Hi-Fi for about a decade or more, having significantly more disposable income than i did in my early 20's leaves me feeling like a kid in a candy store!


----------



## sfo1972

kalavere said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I hear ya...the Lyr is really addicting, especially with decent HPs. I have the Audeze LCD-3s paired up with it and the sound is just amazing.
> ...


 

 I highly recommend auditioning equipment, just as you are planning to do. Regardless of the investment, we end up spending a lot of time with our HPs and AMPs and you want to get the best sound possible, so I wish you the best of luck in finding that magic pair


----------



## diamondears

sfo1972 said:


> I highly recommend auditioning equipment, just as you are planning to do. Regardless of the investment, we end up spending a lot of time with our HPs and AMPs and you want to get the best sound possible, so I wish you the best of luck in finding that magic pair




+1. And don't give price much weight, just your ears, so audition as many as possible within your budget including the extremely cheap ones...

Now if I were you, for 500 pounds, I'll get a used LCD-2 Rev. 2 or even Rev. 1 instead of a brand new something.


----------



## Kalavere

diamondears said:


> +1. And don't give price much weight, just your ears, so audition as many as possible within your budget including the extremely cheap ones...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is it possible to pick up the LCD-2 for ~£500? I'm a bit hooked on the _idea_ of owning Grados, they look so comfy, I'm hoping they perform as good as they look. I think I might also see if I can audition the Fidelio X2, I've heard great things about those.


----------



## diamondears

kalavere said:


> Is it possible to pick up the LCD-2 for ~£500? I'm a bit hooked on the _idea_ of owning Grados, they look so comfy, I'm hoping they perform as good as they look. I think I might also see if I can audition the Fidelio X2, I've heard great things about those.


 

 Yes. Used. That's around US$760. There is a used LCD-2 selling in Head-Fi's classifieds section for around that amount.


----------



## sfo1972

kalavere said:


> Is it possible to pick up the LCD-2 for ~£500? I'm a bit hooked on the _idea_ of owning Grados, they look so comfy, I'm hoping they perform as good as they look. I think I might also see if I can audition the Fidelio X2, I've heard great things about those.


 

 Needless to say, looks are very important - but, make sure you like the way they sound. There is no sense in picking up LCDs when your heart is set on Grados all else being equal. But you have to see what your ears really like. When I bought my LCDs I tried different brands and to my ears the HD800s did not sound as good as the LCD3s. Your experience will vary based on what you like.
  
 Aesthetics are important, because we love our stuff and we spend a good bit of time with them. The trick is in balancing form and function 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Enjoy the music buddy!


----------



## Kalavere

diamondears said:


> Yes. Used. That's around US$760. There is a used LCD-2 selling in Head-Fi's classifieds section for around that amount.


 
  
 I'll have to keep an eye out over there, I've got my BiFrost to shell out for this month, so the 'phone will have to wait a couple of weeks me thinks.
  
 Thanks to both you, Diamondears & sofo1972 for the pro tips and advice.


----------



## diamondears

sfo1972 said:


> Needless to say, looks are very important - but, make sure you like the way they sound. There is no sense in picking up LCDs when your heart is set on Grados all else being equal. But you have to see what your ears really like. When I bought my LCDs I tried different brands and to my ears the HD800s did not sound as good as the LCD3s. Your experience will vary based on what you like.
> 
> Aesthetics are important, because we love our stuff and we spend a good bit of time with them. The trick is in balancing form and function
> 
> ...


 

 +1. You gotta hear to really know which one YOU like, fark others' likes, including ours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But, IMHO, Grados are equally good SOUNDING phones. So its not only its looks that are good. So hear as much as you can. I sold a Grado RS1i and SR325is and I'm missing them terribly, even if I now have and currently like my LCD-2 (Rev. 2).
  
 Cheers.


----------



## shutterbox

I've a question guys. (not sure if this was asked before)
  
 When nano runs on battery, and the battery flats out, should it automatically start the charging process(via usb) or user has to turn off and on the start the charging?


----------



## Kane Williams

shutterbox said:


> I've a question guys. (not sure if this was asked before)
> 
> When nano runs on battery, and the battery flats out, should it automatically start the charging process(via usb) or user has to turn off and on the start the charging?




Not sure, not happened to me but I was under the impression that the Nano is always charging when connected to a USB buss, but it runs from it's battery at the same time?


----------



## sfo1972

kane williams said:


> Not sure, not happened to me but I was under the impression that the Nano is always charging when connected to a USB buss, but it runs from it's battery at the same time?


 

 It depends on the way the Nano was powered up. If you power on the Nano first then connect the USB cable then the Nano runs off internal battery and shuts off when the battery runs out even if the USB cable is connected (led will turn red to let you know battery is low).  On the other hand if you connect the USB cable and then turn on the Nano, then it will charge until full and will stay charged as long as the USB cable is connected.
  
 Hope this makes sense.


----------



## Kane Williams

That does make sense, but if you connect it before switching it on, the Nano still runs from the battery as it charges right, so in other words the stable battery power is always used to power the DAC and the USB buss is only ever charging the battery (and passing data)?


----------



## Kalavere

kane williams said:


> That does make sense, but if you connect it before switching it on, the Nano still runs from the battery as it charges right, so in other words the stable battery power is always used to power the DAC and the USB buss is only ever charging the battery (and passing data)?


  

  
 Quote:


sfo1972 said:


> If you power on the Nano first then connect the USB cable then the Nano runs off internal battery and shuts off when the battery runs out even if the USB cable is connected (led will turn red to let you know battery is low).


----------



## sfo1972

kane williams said:


> That does make sense, but if you connect it before switching it on, the Nano still runs from the battery as it charges right, so in other words the stable battery power is always used to power the DAC and the USB buss is only ever charging the battery (and passing data)?




That I am not sure about my friend. Maybe you need to email support to ask them which power source it uses when plugged in then powered on. 

Let us know if you find out. 
Cheers


----------



## iFi audio

shutterbox said:


> I've a question guys. (not sure if this was asked before)
> 
> 
> When nano runs on battery, and the battery flats out, should it automatically start the charging process(via usb) or user has to turn off and on the start the charging?


 

 Hi,
  
 The nano iDSD will automatically "reboot" and starts the recharging process from the USB power line.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## natra084

hi guys quick question the spdif output can also be used as a input on the nano.


----------



## Kane Williams

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The nano iDSD will automatically "reboot" and starts the recharging process from the USB power line.
> 
> Cheers.




Thanks for that. Am I right in saying that when running/charging via USB input, the DAC does still draw it's operating power from the battery, so the voltage is stable rather than possibly a bit iffy (pardon the pun) via the computer's USB power?


----------



## Kane Williams

natra084 said:


> hi guys quick question the spdif output can also be used as a input on the nano.



Not that I am aware of. I have a question myself. Is the Android version of Onkyo HF capable of High res file playback as it's a bit different to the IOS app in that it says you can pay to upgrade to allow high res playback. This is not mentioned on the Android app, so either it is not available yet or it is implemented in the free version already. Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

natra084 said:


> hi guys quick question the spdif output can also be used as a input on the nano.


 

 Hi,
  
 nano iDSD = SPDIF output only.
  
 micro iDSD = SDPIF input/output.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> Not that I am aware of. I have a question myself. Is the Android version of Onkyo HF capable of High res file playback as it's a bit different to the IOS app in that it says you can pay to upgrade to allow high res playback. This is not mentioned on the Android app, so either it is not available yet or it is implemented in the free version already. Thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 If you are after Hi-Res on Droid, then we recommend UAPP.
  
 We have the Xperia, Z2 phone and Z2 tablet - so we also use the Walkman Hi-Res which also plays DSD (BUT on the fly transcodes to PCM 176 so the iDSD will only see a PCM signal). Albeit not shoddy quality as it is PCM 176 after all.
  
 By the way, the new Windows tablets such as the Teclast allow full Win installs so one can put the full JRMC on there.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## natra084

Hi guys how do I get the nano to work with my iMac


----------



## sfo1972

natra084 said:


> Hi guys how do I get the nano to work with my iMac




It's very simple actually as the Mac natively recognizes the Nano. Once you plug it into the sub port it will show up as an output device under preferences > sound. But the easiest is to turn on your favorite player, audirvana/amarra/etc, and select the Nano in preferences.

Good luck


----------



## natra084

sfo1972 said:


> It's very simple actually as the Mac natively recognizes the Nano. Once you plug it into the sub port it will show up as an output device under preferences > sound. But the easiest is to turn on your favorite player, audirvana/amarra/etc, and select the Nano in preferences.
> 
> Good luck


 
 It does not work


----------



## gekonuss

Hi guys,
 I have purchased iDSD nano recently. So far I am using it as a substitute DAC for E10, connected to Schiit Asgard. Headgear is DT990 pro 250ohm, HD650, shure se210. So far the change from E10 wasn´t as significant as I would expected it to be. On 192/24 FLAC I can hear the sound is more detailed, punchier, however the difference isn´t as great. Now I want to try some DSD format. I´ve downloaded some free sample tracks, they are all ind .dsf format and I am unable to play it in foobar. I know foobar can downsample (or convert) but that wouldn´t be the native DSD feature of Nano, would it? I am sort of new to hifi (half a year since my first HP), so I apologize for my lack of knowledge...


----------



## technobear

There is a post about how to get native DSD working in foobar2000 here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-3-show-a-little-leg-what-is-it-page-132/1950#post_11010460


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Please see the linked guide at the end of my post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683406/ifi-audio-nano-idsd-discussion-impression/900#post_10985738


----------



## gekonuss

Guys, thanks a lot to both of you, today I am not home, I will try it tmrw and let you know how did it work.


----------



## gekonuss

Finally, I am listening to DSD, the purple light on my nano is lit, the sound is incredibly detailed and natural, now I can fully recognize the lack of detail of DT990 compared to HD650.
 thx for help again


----------



## natra084

hey guys what is it with this nano white I listen to 24/96 or even less than that the white light is always on should it be like that.


----------



## sfo1972

natra084 said:


> It does not work




Did you get the Nano to be recognized under os x?


----------



## natra084

sfo1972 said:


> Did you get the Nano to be recognized under os x?



yes we fix the problem


----------



## Kane Williams

Just want to give a little plug to an app for OSX called Vox. I'm sure it's already well known on here but it now plays DSD files and it's free! Nice player and soon to be on IOS too.


----------



## Kane Williams

I made an enquiry to VOX about their DSD playback, as the screen shows 88.2 kHz in the screen when playing back a DSD track via the iDSD Nano. I wanted to ask if this meant that the DSD was being converted to PCM. This is the response:
  
DoP means "DSD over PCM", that's the point - DSD is first converted to PCM, then delivered. VOX shows the actual output PCM sample rate here.
 
VOX cannot play DSD native (as many other players also) because it would require to support DSD audio interfaces which currently we do not.
 
 So basically, the are saying that DoP requires a conversion to PCM, but I was under the impression that DoP resulted in native DSD, just wrapped in the PCM stream? Other media players have DoP and PCM conversion as two separate options. So it appears that VOX cannot deliver native DSD yet?


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> I made an enquiry to VOX about their DSD playback, as the screen shows 88.2 kHz in the screen when playing back a DSD track via the iDSD Nano. I wanted to ask if this meant that the DSD was being converted to PCM. This is the response:
> 
> DoP means "DSD over PCM", that's the point - DSD is first converted to PCM, then delivered. VOX shows the actual output PCM sample rate here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You are correct in your assumptions.
  
 Here is the DoP industry standard document:
  
 http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard
  
 - so you can see DoP is not "Converting DSD to PCM".
  
 - if the device plays DSD viaDoP both the iDSD nano and Micro will decode it and show the correct colour for DSD.
  
 - if they show the sample rate as 88K or similar then it is not being sent as DoP DSD but converted to standard PCM.
  
  
*Sony can show DSD output as PCM and DSD???*

  
 For example, we demo with the Sony Xperia and Z2 (tablets and phones).
  
 They all have the Walkman Hi-Res app. It "plays" DSD but it actual transcodes to PCM176.6 (nice quality but not the point).
  
 So using the Walkman app to play DSD, the nano / micro iDSD will show PCM 176!
  
 BUT using UAPP to play DSD on the same Sony devices, the nano / micro will show DSD playing.
  
 By the way, we love these Sony devices but we are just highlighting how things work "behind the curtain".
  
 We hope this sheds more light.


----------



## Kane Williams

So Coppertino say that there software currently converts to PCM and at 88.2Khz it seems, but not sure of the word length. However, this is a new addition and welcomed and they are aware that DoP is desirable and they take customer feedback seriously, so I would guess it will be added within 6 months, but this is only my guess, not based on any proper indication from Coppertino. Hopefully they will add DoP to the upcoming iPhone App too.
  
 I've not tried any DXD files with VOX btw, but will try. See how these sound on the Nano!


----------



## Kane Williams

Does the iDSD Nano apply the DSD-prescribed 24 dB/oct 30 kHz lowpass that a SACD player would apply?


----------



## sfo1972

I am having an issue with hires playback, which is quite surprising actually.
  
 My setup is a standard MBPRO > Audirvana plus > USB cable > ifi Nano iDSD.
  
 I have setup Audirvana plus to recognize the Nano and the rates are configured appropriately. I can see under Preferences > Audio System that A+ recognizes the resolution up to 384 and I set the native DSD capability to  "DSD over PCM1.0"
  
 When I play hires flacs, SACDs, that are 88k or higher the Nano's LED shows green. I am not able to get it to light Yellow or Cyan. I made sure A+'s settings don't have down or up sample.
  
 Also, when the music is stopped A+ shows a DAC connected with 32/384khz capability. When I click play A+ shows DAC: 32/96khz stereo.
  
 Does anyone know how to fix this issue?
 ------
 Edit:
  
 Guys ignore the question, I figured it out. It was a bonehead mistake on my part... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 The green and yellow colors on the LED are so close, to my eyes at least, i needed to be on top of the led to see the change from green to yellow. All the files I was playing were 44.1 and 96 so the led kept switching between green and yellow.
  
 I figured it out when I played a DSD64 file and got a solid blue light. Then I stopped the music, played a 44.1khz and the led went to green. Then tried a 96khz file and saw the color variation to a yellow on the LED.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> Does the iDSD Nano apply the DSD-prescribed 24 dB/oct 30 kHz lowpass that a SACD player would apply?


 
  
 Hi,
  
  
*Short Answer*
 There is no such filter prescribed for DSD.
   
 

*Long Answer*
 The SACD Spec as propagated by Sony states a frequency response limit of 100kHz, which would be incompatible with Lowpass filtering at 30kHz, see for example:
 http://www.superaudiocenter.com/images/dsd.pdf
  
 In the iDSD, as with most things in life, it is a balancing act. Often it is desirable to trade some of the HF extension and pulse fidelity for improved suppression of the ultrasonic noise produced by the DSD process.
  
 To specifically answer your question, in the iDSD nano the filter is appx. 75kHz, second order passive in the analogue domain, complemented with a selectable analogue FIR Filter at a higher frequency.
  
 As the FIR filters have a complex response it is not easy to state the final filter function, however at the standard filter, any noise at 250KHz or higher is suppressed by at least 45dB, this is actually a marked improvement on the original standard without giving up too much bandwidth.
  
 We found this to offer the best sonics in the real world.


----------



## Kane Williams

Thanks for all that info. So do you recommend using the standard filter setting on the DAC for DSD?

Another question I have regarding DSD. Does the iDSD conform to the MaxPeak level standard?

Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> Thanks for all that info. So do you recommend using the standard filter setting on the DAC for DSD?
> 
> Another question I have regarding DSD. Does the iDSD conform to the MaxPeak level standard?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 > So do you recommend using the standard filter setting on the DAC for DSD?
 In the instruction card, we recommend Minimum Phase for listening enjoyment and Standard Filter for measurements.
  
 The standard filter has lower levels of ultrasonic noise, the extended filter wider bandwidth.
  
 Which will sound better depends on the system and one's ears.
  
 Without wishing to start a measurement vs listening debate, we find that theory and practice are not always positively correlated - and we find this extends beyond audio into other fields such as economics.
  
  
 > Does the iDSD conform to the MaxPeak level standard?
 There is no "Max Peak Level Standard".
  
 The Scarlet Book is clear at setting maximum modulation for DSD (the equivalent of PCM's 0dBFS) at 50% modulation.
  
 With DSD on the iDSD nano and micro levels are a little lower than PCM levels, as we apply no conversion to PCM, so levels cannot be equal.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## natra084

Does anybody know how I can get rid of jitter or USB noise.


----------



## ClieOS

natra084 said:


> Does anybody know how I can get rid of jitter or USB noise.


 
  
 iDSD nano doesn't really suffer from any jitter issue. As for USB noise, there is the iUSB Power or the Schiit Wyrd, or simply just power the iDSD nano in battery mode - the question is however, do your iDSD nano actually suffer from any of these issue, or you believe these are fashionable to 'get rid of'?


----------



## sfo1972

natra084 said:


> Does anybody know how I can get rid of jitter or USB noise.


 
  
  


clieos said:


> iDSD nano doesn't really suffer from any jitter issue. As for USB noise, there is the iUSB Power or the Schiit Wyrd, or simply just power the iDSD nano in battery mode - the question is however, do your iDSD nano actually suffer from any of these issue, or you believe these are fashionable to 'get rid of'?


 

 I have been using the Nano in the office quite extensively for several weeks now. On average 6 hours per day. I used through the USB from my Mac and on the road with the iPhone. In both configurations I had no issues with lag/stopped play (i.e. jitter) or USB hum when connected to the Mac.
  
 As stated by ClieOS, are you having a specific issue with the Nano?


----------



## natra084

the noise that I'm talking about is when you turn up the volume max on your amp and you don't listen to music you will hear some noise and with my tube amplifier that noise gets much worse.
on my tube amplifier I only have to have the volume knob at 11 o'clock to start to hear some noise and as further down I go it just gets louder that is without music playing.


----------



## sfo1972

natra084 said:


> the noise that I'm talking about is when you turn up the volume max on your amp and you don't listen to music you will hear some noise and with my tube amplifier that noise gets much worse.
> on my tube amplifier I only have to have the volume knob at 11 o'clock to start to hear some noise and as further down I go it just gets louder that is without music playing.


 

 Ok buddy there might be a few factors at work here so let's work through them to try and pinpoint where your noise/hum is coming from.
  
 First step is to understand your setup, I assume that your setup is as follows:
  
 PC/Mac > USB Cabe > ifi Nano > RCA Out > Tube Amp > Speakers or Headphones? Is this correct?
  
 Second step:
 Remove all connections and keep only the PC/MAC > USB Cable > ifi Nano. Use the USB cable that came with the Nano, if you have replaced it. Connect IEMs directly into the Nano and listen without playing any tracks. Raise the volume slowly and see if you are getting any noise/hum and let us know.


----------



## ClieOS

Check these as well:
  
 1) Without plugging in the USB cable, turn the iDSD nano on (to max) and plug in your headphone, check if there is noise.
  
 2) Turn the iDSD nano on and to max, then plug in the USB cable and the headphone, check again.
  
 3) Plug in the USB cable first, then turn on the iDSD nano to max, check again.
  
 Report back what you find on each of them, then we will know if USB noise is a problem or not.


----------



## Kane Williams

I used to find that with my Firewire interface when my laptop was "plugged in" noise was so bad that I could not record. When I unuhged the laptop from the wall socket and ran from its battery, the noise disappeared. Not had this issue at all with Nano though. The firewire socket is an inch or 2 nearer the power inlet.


----------



## natra084




----------



## Kane Williams

It sounds like the Mac's the cause, not an issue with the Nano. May be try another USB cable? Try another USB port, as some kick out more power than others (by design).


----------



## natra084

I have tried now, when I have the usb connected to the nano then I'm getting a lot of noise it doesn't matter if it is running on battery or USB but when I disconnect the USB from the nano then its dead silent.


----------



## Kane Williams

Yes, it seems like the Mac is adding noise. Can you try a few more USB cables? Can you try another USB source, either a laptop (running from battery), phone or tablet? You could even try plugging your computer in to other wall sockets, as it may be the mains power.


----------



## natra084

I tried with my phone too I think it is just nesty usb power


----------



## natra084

kane williams said:


> Yes, it seems like the Mac is adding noise. Can you try a few more USB cables? Can you try another USB source, either a laptop (running from battery), phone or tablet? You could even try plugging your computer in to other wall sockets, as it may be the mains power.


 
 I tried all my usb ports and I tried with my phone and different cables and it is still making noise.


----------



## ClieOS

If you really think your PC's USB is the problem, there are iFi's iUSB Power or Schiit Audio's Wyrd. Either one will do the job.


----------



## sfo1972

natra084 said:


> I tried all my usb ports and I tried with my phone and different cables and it is still making noise.


 

 If the hum is there with you phone as well, then it might be a faulty Nano. Since the phone is not using a USB cable then it stands to reason that the Nano itself has an issue.
  
 The other point could be that what you are perceiving as noise might actually be the way the device operates. At Max volume there is a slight hum to the Nano with headphones. But I doubt anyone would listen at that extreme volume for any period of time. Between 11 and 1 o'clock there is minimal to no hum.


----------



## natra084

sfo1972 said:


> If the hum is there with you phone as well, then it might be a faulty Nano. Since the phone is not using a USB cable then it stands to reason that the Nano itself has an issue.
> 
> The other point could be that what you are perceiving as noise might actually be the way the device operates. At Max volume there is a slight hum to the Nano with headphones. But I doubt anyone would listen at that extreme volume for any period of time. Between 11 and 1 o'clock there is minimal to no hum.



yes that's true what you're saying is it possible to get rid of the last bit of hum I shouldn't I nano be quiet when I use my phone


----------



## Kane Williams

What headphones/IEM's are you using? I have heard people before saying they hear some noise when using very sensitive IEM's and turning the volume up to max but obviously you would not listen at this level when music is playing as it would be way too loud. I use mine with AKG 7XX's and have the Nano turned up high with no noise problems but I find the sound a bit harsh if I go louder. Have you tried adding another headphone amp after the Nano? You have to have the Nano turned all the way up though, so this would be a good test.


----------



## natra084

kane williams said:


> What headphones/IEM's are you using? I have heard people before saying they hear some noise when using very sensitive IEM's and turning the volume up to max but obviously you would not listen at this level when music is playing as it would be way too loud. I use mine with AKG 7XX's and have the Nano turned up high with no noise problems but I find the sound a bit harsh if I go louder. Have you tried adding another headphone amp after the Nano? You have to have the Nano turned all the way up though, so this would be a good test.



I am for the time being just using the nano as a dac and I'm not using the amplifier because I have a amplifier and as a dac it is making noise but I have two amplifiers my tube amplifier picks up a lot of noise and then I just have to turn the volume to 11 o'clock to start to hear some noise.


----------



## Kane Williams

I would speak to Ifi, as they state the amp should be switched to max if using the line out, so it's a bad design fault if in doing so you introduce audible noise. I have not tried the line out in mine yet.


----------



## tf1216

This stuff typically falls on the fault of the ground connections.  Can you try a cheater plug or put everything on the same circuit?
  
 Otherwise, open a support ticket with the iFi guys.  They have helped me in the past.  I had a dozen communications with them about my iLink.  It took me forever to realize a digital cable I had made was the cause of all my frustrations, not the iFi product.


----------



## Pwnsaur

Newbie here, so I'm considering this as a 'starter' headphone amp for my AKG 7xx's and I was wondering what's the difference between this and the O2/ODAC? Most of my music is in FLAC from my laptop so is there any point to getting this as a DAC/amp or just go for the iFi iCan nano? I don't have any DSD or DXD recordings, so is the DAC capability just wasted in this case? 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## tf1216

natra084, haven't heard back from you partner.  How is the testing going over there?
  
 Do you have another DAC you can try in the place of the nano?


----------



## tf1216

Pwnsaur, nothing wasted in your case.  The Nano will be a nice mate for your AKG's, I believe.


----------



## natra084

tf1216 said:


> natra084, haven't heard back from you partner.  How is the testing going over there?
> 
> Do you have another DAC you can try in the place of the nano?



It is going bad can't fix the noise problem


----------



## tf1216

Did you try a cheater plug which converts your 3-prong laptop cord to a 2-prong?

Also,do you have a second DAC to try?


----------



## sfo1972

pwnsaur said:


> Newbie here, so I'm considering this as a 'starter' headphone amp for my AKG 7xx's and I was wondering what's the difference between this and the O2/ODAC? Most of my music is in FLAC from my laptop so is there any point to getting this as a DAC/amp or just go for the iFi iCan nano? I don't have any DSD or DXD recordings, so is the DAC capability just wasted in this case?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 I don't have direct experience with the O2/ODAC but what I can tell you is that the Nano is a capable and well performing DAC. My home setup consists of an Oppoa HA-1 DAC, Tube Pre-Amp. and Integrated AMP. More towards the mid tier of hifi systems in my opinion, and the Nano is used for a portable setup in my office. I can tell you that it performs very well and is extremely capable with FLACs and DSDs, even though you don't have any DSDs right now its nice to know that you have the option.
  
 I also inserted the Nano in my setup at home and it did pretty well for such a small device. It wasn't quite as polished as the HA-1, but as I stated in an earlier post, that's not a fair comparison as they are in different classes.
  
 I can easily say after 1 month of heavy use, the Nano is a great DAC and Headphone Amp. Just make sure you match the headphones to the Nano to ensure they can be driven effectively.


----------



## sfo1972

natra084 said:


> It is going bad can't fix the noise problem


 

 Open a support ticket with ifi buddy. Good luck.


----------



## rickyleelee

sfo1972 said:


> Open a support ticket with ifi buddy. Good luck.


 
Buddy, try another DAC if you have one to hand. Then you can do some debugging yourself.


----------



## Dixter

pwnsaur said:


> Newbie here, so I'm considering this as a 'starter' headphone amp for my AKG 7xx's and I was wondering what's the difference between this and the O2/ODAC? Most of my music is in FLAC from my laptop so is there any point to getting this as a DAC/amp or just go for the iFi iCan nano? I don't have any DSD or DXD recordings, so is the DAC capability just wasted in this case?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Here's a better option for you....   having all of the equipment your asking about I think I can answer you pretty well...  
 For the 7XX...    the Nano does "just" drive them...  I can turn the volume control all the way up and can listen at that level all day...  its loud but not too loud... but...      
 I also have mounted an O2 with my Nano...  in that configuration you turn the volume knob on the Nano to full on power and it turns the output to a Line Out just like a pre amp...  
 With this Nano/O2 the 7XX are driven much better...   you can use high gain or low gain and have plenty of power...  more than enough power..   
 The way I mounted the two...   the O2 case can be purchased with rubber end bumpers...  they look great and work very well...  
 The Nano sits on top of the O2 and then two bands hold it all together...   a super nice package that not only works with computer/laptop but also Iphones...   
 Now to the question of the DAC...   the ODAC was an after thought to the original O2.. its a pretty nice solution for folks that wanted a O2 DAC combo...  there are two downsides though that you might consider...   when the DAC was added to the O2 there wasn't any room for the batterys...  so you have to run the O2/DAC off of main power...  so your portability goes away..  and the DAC itself is not a world class updated DAC as that used in the Nano...  it will not work with DSD files....  
 So your playing only FLAC and say you don't think you need a DSD DAC....   well you don't need to have DSD files to use a DSD DAC... using JRiver Media Center 20 you can take all of your songs and have it upsample all of your songs to DSD output into the Nano...   it will even make your MP3 songs a little better during playback...  
 And if you ever do deside to get DSD files (some are free) then you would have the Nano for those songs...  thats not an option for the ODAC ever..  
 So,  Start out slow...  get a Nano...  than later add the O2 ...   you'll enjoy the 7xx with the Nano and have a good upgrade path to look forward to later...


----------



## Kane Williams

I use the Nano with the 7XX and agree that it is just powerful enough but I am sure adding another amp will improve the sound. I have a nice but cheap headphone amp I an yet to try with it.


----------



## natra084

Hi guys why is this nano draining my phone's battery


----------



## tf1216

natra084 said:


> Hi guys why is this nano draining my phone's battery


 
  
 Did you fix the noise issue?


----------



## natra084

tf1216 said:


> Did you fix the noise issue?


 
 no


----------



## natra084

Tried everything


----------



## tf1216

What did you try to alleviate the noise problem?


----------



## natra084

tf1216 said:


> What did you try to alleviate the noise problem?


 
 Different cables grounded connections and ungrounded connections everything you can try


----------



## tf1216

I really want to help you.  I don't feel the Nano is the cause of whatever noise you hear.  
  
 Do you have pictures of your setup?


----------



## natra084

I made a video to send ifi check it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRc39BLoTQg


----------



## Kane Williams

natra084 said:


> Hi guys why is this nano draining my phone's battery




Did you switch the Nano on before connecting it to the phone? That is how you should do it so the Nano runs on it's own battery.


----------



## natra084

Sorry for the mess on my desk have bin testing with everything


----------



## natra084

kane williams said:


> Did you switch the Nano on before connecting it to the phone? That is how you should do it so the Nano runs on it's own battery.


 
 yes


----------



## ClieOS

natra084 said:


> I made a video to send ifi check it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRc39BLoTQg


 
  
 What you have described in the video (which is much clearer than what you have written so far) is a strong indication of ground loop. Basically there is a voltage/current difference (that isn't supposed to be there) between the amp (plus the DAC) and the PC and causes the current to 'flow' in a way that it isn't designed to, and the result is the humming noise. The fact there nothing is actually connect to a ground isn't helping either.


----------



## natra084

clieos said:


> What you have described in the video (which is much clearer than what you have written so far) is a strong indication of ground loop. Basically there is a voltage/current difference (that isn't supposed to be there) between the amp (plus the DAC) and the PC and causes the current to 'flow' in a way that it isn't designed to, and the result is the humming noise. The fact there nothing is actually connect to a ground isn't helping either.


 
 iFi told me that a shouldn't connect to a ground connection so I didn't but in my home I have grounded and unground connections so I wanted to show iFi that I had connected as they told me so I connected to the unground otherwise I always use ground connection


----------



## Pwnsaur

dixter said:


> Here's a better option for you....   having all of the equipment your asking about I think I can answer you pretty well...
> For the 7XX...    the Nano does "just" drive them...  I can turn the volume control all the way up and can listen at that level all day...  its loud but not too loud... but...
> I also have mounted an O2 with my Nano...  in that configuration you turn the volume knob on the Nano to full on power and it turns the output to a Line Out just like a pre amp...
> With this Nano/O2 the 7XX are driven much better...   you can use high gain or low gain and have plenty of power...  more than enough power..
> ...


 
 Thanks for the advice, I'll probably give the iDSD a spin... now to scrape the cash together >.<


----------



## Kane Williams

If you run just a phone into the Nano, with headphones plugged in, is there any hum? If so, this cannot be a ground loop, as everything is battery powered.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> If you run just a phone into the Nano, with headphones plugged in, is there any hum? If so, this cannot be a ground loop, as everything is battery powered.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We looked into the support ticket Natra kindly opened with us.
  
 As TF1296 said, try another DAC.
  
 Natra did - he tried another DAC - the noise was much worse with the other DAC. Therefore we immediately ruled out the nano iDSD from the equation.
  
 We are trying to work through the electrics-something is at odds.
  
 If anybody would like some background on tracking down ground loops, we can upload that information here for future reference.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## technobear

natra084 said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > What you have described in the video (which is much clearer than what you have written so far) is a strong indication of ground loop. Basically there is a voltage/current difference (that isn't supposed to be there) between the amp (plus the DAC) and the PC and causes the current to 'flow' in a way that it isn't designed to, and the result is the humming noise. The fact there nothing is actually connect to a ground isn't helping either.
> ...




Can you leave out the DAC and just connect an analogue source to your tube amp. You could try the analogue output from a phone or a laptop perhaps. Does the noise still occur? Sounds like your tube amp may be faulty.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

natra084 said:


> Hi guys why is this nano draining my phone's battery


 

 Thats "normal", the nano iDSD runs on battery yes, but a USB signal still consums some energy, it would drain much faster if the devices would not provide a battery.
  
 My Sony phone runs with the nano iDSD easily 15 hours connected with USB.


----------



## natra084

Hi guys I make a YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVROnJ5N-P8 it isn't the best one.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

The nano iDSD has "only" 130 mW @ 16 ohms, the volume knob is more like a attenuator. If you need more power (and still the same size and price range), the nano iCAN would be with 150 mW @ 32 ohms with up t o 18 dB gain the better option. Or if possible go for the micro iDSD still portable but extremely powerful AMP and great DAC with a tons of other nice features in one single device. And I fully agree with you - really good support by iFi


----------



## technobear

h1f1add1cted said:


> The nano iDSD has "only" 130 mW @ 16 ohms, the volume knob is more like a attenuator.




At the risk of being pedantic, ALL volume knobs are attenuators.


----------



## natra084

h1f1add1cted said:


> The nano iDSD has "only" 130 mW @ 16 ohms, the volume knob is more like a attenuator. If you need more power (and still the same size and price range), the nano iCAN would be with 150 mW @ 32 ohms with up t o 18 dB gain the better option. Or if possible go for the micro iDSD still portable but extremely powerful AMP and great DAC with a tons of other nice features in one single device. And I fully agree with you - really good support by iFi



the only reason I took up the volume question is because there are people out there the think that is going to be a big improvement on the volume but that isn't the case.


----------



## natra084

technobear said:


> At the risk of being pedantic, ALL volume knobs are attenuators.


 
 That's true but the average guy doesn't know that. they know it as a volume knob


----------



## Kane Williams

I don't believe all volume knobs are simply attenuators. Only passive ones are. For instance my Denon amp displays -dB or +dB values so any + is surely adding gain. However my SM Pro Mpatch2 will only attenuate as it is passive, so it goes from 0dB to -50dB (or something like that).


----------



## ClieOS

There are many ways to implement volume control schemes. Though not all volume control are used for attenuation, most are. Sometime it can be a bit of both, sometime it can be a gain control (which I often find not to be great).


----------



## Kane Williams

clieos said:


> There are many ways to implement volume control schemes. Though not all volume control are used for attenuation, most are. Sometime it can be a bit of both, sometime it can be a gain control (which I often find not to be great).




Good to know. I wonder why in Pro Audio then, passive controllers such as my MPatch2 are not that common, most monitor controllers (volume controls) are active, as in need electricity to power them? If a device only has to be able to attenuate a signal, why aren't they all passive and thus add close to zero colouration to a signal? Sorry, this is off topic.


----------



## Kane Williams

So, when the Nano is used as a headphone amp, has the amp itself added gain already and the actual pot is just a passive attenuator? Is this also true when used with line outs? So if one connected the Nano to some powered monitors, the volume control on the Nano would act as a passive attenuator too?


----------



## analogsurviver

kane williams said:


> Good to know. I wonder why in Pro Audio then, passive controllers such as my MPatch2 are not that common, most monitor controllers (volume controls) are active, as in need electricity to power them? If a device only has to be able to attenuate a signal, why aren't they all passive and thus add close to zero colouration to a signal? Sorry, this is off topic.


 
 A passive signal processing works correctly ONLY if output/input impedances are correctly matched. For this reason, they also dislike high(er) capacitances, usually from long(er) cable runs. If these impedance matches are not 100 % adhered to (difficult in practice), active devices usually produce better results. It certainly is possible to get by using passive only, but it usually results in a VERY hermetic system. Change a single component ( a meter longer cable...) and one is usually toast.


----------



## Kane Williams

analogsurviver said:


> A passive signal processing works correctly ONLY if output/input impedances are correctly matched. For this reason, they also dislike high(er) capacitances, usually from long(er) cable runs. If these impedance matches are not 100 % adhered to (difficult in practice), active devices usually produce better results. It certainly is possible to get by using passive only, but it usually results in a VERY hermetic system. Change a single component ( a meter longer cable...) and one is usually toast.




Ah, and does the fact that pro audio is in the large part using balanced connections mean the impedance matching is less of an issue?


----------



## analogsurviver

Balanced connections are primarily used because of hum/interference - so that any/most garbage that may be induced in cable is reduced to minimum - in theory they should cancel 100 %. Pro balanced connections use very low impedances - because they are less sensitive to capacitance of cable runs.


----------



## ClieOS

kane williams said:


> Good to know. I wonder why in Pro Audio then, passive controllers such as my MPatch2 are not that common, most monitor controllers (volume controls) are active, as in need electricity to power them? If a device only has to be able to attenuate a signal, why aren't they all passive and thus add close to zero colouration to a signal? Sorry, this is off topic.


 
  
 There are several ways to do volume control in analog domain. Some of the basic scheme are (1) you can place the pot before the (fixed) gain stage and use it to attenuate the input signal. The is usually the most common and simplest way of doing it. (2) you can put it after a fixed gain stage and before the buffer stage, attenuate the already amplified signal. This is how Objective 2 does it, or (3) you utilize the pot to control the gain factor on the gain stage. That's how PA2V2 does it. There is no 'active' or 'passive' to really speak of. The pot is part of the circuit, and the circuit as a  whole need power to run, even though the pot itself might not consume power. But don't forget pot is itself a variable resistor, and resistor is not entirely neutral. All-in-one chip, like that in Nano, might not be as simple as what I have mentioned above. How the volume control is designed in those chip are often not mentioned in detail by the chip maker.
  
  
  


kane williams said:


> So, when the Nano is used as a headphone amp, has the amp itself added gain already and the actual pot is just a passive attenuator? Is this also true when used with line outs? So if one connected the Nano to some powered monitors, the volume control on the Nano would act as a passive attenuator too?


 
  
 The DAC section of nano is already outputting line-level signal, enough to blast your eardrum out on most headphone - therefore what you don't need is more gain to make it louder, but a way to tune it down to listenable volume. The actual pot on nano doesn't actually control the volume directly. The volume control mechanism is already built into the headphone driving chip. When you turn the pot up or down, it relays the signal to the chip (via a MCU if I am not mistaken) and then the chip turns the volume up or down accordingly. When the volume pot is maxed out, the chip disable the volume control entirely as it sets the gain to zero. This means the chip acts essentially as a buffer for the DAC. So you can see, the actual volume pot that you turn around is not even in the signal path. It could have just as easy to put a [+] and [-] buttons on Nano if iFi wanted to. This is beyond just 'active' or 'passive' can describe.


----------



## Kane Williams

clieos said:


> There are several ways to do volume control in analog domain. Some of the basic scheme are (1) you can place the pot before the (fixed) gain stage and use it to attenuate the input signal. The is usually the most common and simplest way of doing it. (2) you can put it after a fixed gain stage and before the buffer stage, attenuate the already amplified signal. This is how Objective 2 does it, or (3) you utilize the pot to control the gain factor on the gain stage. That's how PA2V2 does it. There is no 'active' or 'passive' to really speak of. The pot is part of the circuit, and the circuit as a  whole need power to run, even though the pot itself might not consume power. But don't forget pot is itself a variable resistor, and resistor is not entirely neutral. All-in-one chip, like that in Nano, might not be as simple as what I have mentioned above. How the volume control is designed in those chip are often not mentioned in detail by the chip maker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nicely explained info, thanks for that.

One thing I will say though is that my Mpatch2 does not have any power going to it at all. It can have power via a wall wart if one wants to use the headphone amp, otherwise it is totally passive (no electricity going to the unit)


----------



## ClieOS

kane williams said:


> One thing I will say though is that my Mpatch2 does not have any power going to it at all. It can have power via a wall wart if one wants to use the headphone amp, otherwise it is totally passive (no electricity going to the unit)


 
  
 That's mostly because the M-patch 2 is mainly designed for pro-audio use. In many occasion, pro-audio source tend to have very high output that goes straight into something that doesn't have an volume control (i.e. power amp). A passive volume controller box or an active pre-amp is useful on those situation. In the headphone world however, volume control is pretty much a part of the design of the amp and therefore thing like M-patch 2 makes very little sense.


----------



## burdie

Dear all,
 I just found an Android app that able to play SACD-iso, DSF & DFF natively via DoP to your Nano (in fact, other USB DAC i have also supported)


 see the blue light? DSD 2.8M
 The app is Hibymusic, available in play store.
 link below
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music&hl=en
  
 FREE somemore


----------



## technobear

burdie said:


> Dear all,
> I just found an Android app that able to play SACD-iso, DSF & DFF natively via DoP to your Nano (in fact, other USB DAC i have also supported)
> 
> 
> ...




Does this app have 'browse by Album Artist'?


----------



## burdie

technobear said:


> Does this app have 'browse by Album Artist'?


 

 under the category (upper left hand corner) you are able to browse All, Album, Artist, Genre, Folder, Lan & Playlist


----------



## technobear

burdie said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Does this app have 'browse by Album Artist'?
> ...




So that would be 'No' then :rolleyes:


----------



## natra084

Hi guys the noise issue it is due to USB as my computer but thanks guys for all the help.


----------



## burdie

technobear said:


> So that would be 'No' then


 
 Sorry, don't understand what you mean.
 The app able to browse base on Artist name, or by Album.


----------



## Dixter

natra084 said:


> Hi guys the noise issue it is due to USB as my computer but thanks guys for all the help.


 

 That should be easy to fix... all you need is this cable between your computer and the Nano...
  
 it takes the computer USB output and converts it to optical and then at the Nano it converts back to USB...  it does not carry any power so there is no noise
 for the cable to transfer to the Nano....
  
 its the Corning USB 3.0Optical Cable....   you can google it...  the one I use is the 33 foot version... and it works fine....
  
 don't  worry about the length of the cable...  it comes rolled up... I keep mine rolled up and just unwind the amount I need at the time I use it...   look at it as a USB noise filter...
 I doubt you could get a cleaner signal than what this does...


----------



## Kane Williams

I thought the power side of the USB signal was needed for the initial handshake between computer and DAC. I've bought a Y cable so I can disconnect the power side after the handshake, although I only got it yesterday so not had chance to try it to see if it works without the power from the start. Just think that in many cases the optical Corning cable may not work if it doesn't transfer the 5v power?


----------



## technobear

burdie said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > So that would be 'No' then :rolleyes:
> ...




MP3/FLAC tags have a tag for 'Artist' - this is the track artist.

They also have a tag for 'Album Artist' - this is the album artist.

For a single artist album, they will be the same.

For a compilation, the 'Artist' tag will be different for each track but the 'Album Artist' tag will be the same for each track - usually "Various Artists".

Browse by 'Album Artist' uses the album artist tag to order the list. This way, all the compilation albums are sorted under "Various Artists" and the remainder of the list is only those artists who have albums.


----------



## john57

kane williams said:


> I thought the power side of the USB signal was needed for the initial handshake between computer and DAC. I've bought a Y cable so I can disconnect the power side after the handshake, although I only got it yesterday so not had chance to try it to see if it works without the power from the start. Just think that in many cases the optical Corning cable may not work if it doesn't transfer the 5v power?


 
 The small wires are to power the remote transceiver for conversion. All data run on the fiber. Both optical to copper transceivers on both ends needs power to operate. You need 5V on the host side at least. The transceiver being active will provide the 5v signal if needed for the devices. Not enough power is available for charging since the corning fiber is expecting self power devices meaning AC powered. You can connect the corning USB cable to a powered hub then to a battery operated device for charging. All of this is explained on Corning web site.
  
_I want to charge my portable device (like iPhone or iPad) with USB 3.Optical™ Cables by Corning. Is that possible?_
  
_USB 3.Optical Cables by Corning are designed to be used with self-powered peripherals only. No significant power is available after powering its internal opto-electronics. A self-powered USB 3.0/2.0 hub can always be used at the peripheral (B-side) to provide power if desired._
  
_Do USB 3.Optical™ Cables by Corning contain copper conductors?_
  

_Yes, two copper conductors transmit power from the host for the optical to electrical conversion and back again. All data is transmitted over the optical fibers._


----------



## burdie

technobear said:


> MP3/FLAC tags have a tag for 'Artist' - this is the track artist.
> 
> They also have a tag for 'Album Artist' - this is the album artist.
> 
> ...


 
 I see, kind of complicated.
 The app is not big, why not download and give it a try?
 To me, able to transfer DSD over DoP and FREE is very attractive to me.


----------



## natra084

dixter said:


> That should be easy to fix... all you need is this cable between your computer and the Nano...
> 
> it takes the computer USB output and converts it to optical and then at the Nano it converts back to USB...  it does not carry any power so there is no noise
> for the cable to transfer to the Nano....
> ...


 
 Thanks man


----------



## Kane Williams

Ok, thanks for explaining how the Corning cable handles the 5v etc.

On another note, I just tried my new cable with my Ifi Nano. Very disappointed. When I disconnect the power side, the connection between DAC and laptop is lost, so I feel I have wasted my money on this cable. I basically wanted to simply send data to the battery powered DAC but it seems this is not possible. I think this is an issue with the MacBook Pro rather than the Nano but I'll contact Ifi to see what they say.


----------



## john57

kane williams said:


> Ok, thanks for explaining how the Corning cable handles the 5v etc.
> 
> On another note, I just tried my new cable with my Ifi Nano. Very disappointed. When I disconnect the power side, the connection between DAC and laptop is lost, so I feel I have wasted my money on this cable. I basically wanted to simply send data to the battery powered DAC but it seems this is not possible. I think this is an issue with the MacBook Pro rather than the Nano but I'll contact Ifi to see what they say.


 
 I am not sure why you feel the need to disconnect the 5v. The 5v is not going directly to the end device. It is going to power the remote transceiver. There is no way the power line is going to effect the data traveling on a beam of light. The data is completely isolated from the power line. If the 5v is really causing problems I rather fix the root cause and not cut the USB 5v line on the USB cable as a band-aid approach. I am using an all copper repeater cable from a router to a wireless modem that does not have any power source.  If you have the money you can get the Corning fiber cable up to 200 feet full speed with no corruption of the data. You can even get a Corning Thunderbolt 2 optical cable operating at 20 Gb/s up to 197 feet and maybe longer since Thunderbolt supports daisy-chain of the cable.


----------



## Kane Williams

If I had the Corning cable, I would not want to disconnect the 5v, as I realize electricity will not effect light, but I don't have that cable, I have an Achtung Audio Y style USB cable. I am skeptical that USB cables make a difference but I don't rule it out and thought the separation of data and power sounded like a good idea. Many USB cable manufacturers advertise cables that split the power and data lines and either terminate the cables with a single USB connection on each end or some have a Y configuration. With two going into one. As the Nano runs on it's own battery, I thought removing the power all together makes sense as it cuts out ANY possibility of the 5v interfering with the data. However, removing the power leg of the Y cable results in the DAC no longer communicating with my laptop. I thought once the connection was made, the power leg would no longer be required. So, a Y cable seems redundant in my situation.


----------



## mannkind246

clieos said:


> 150mW for a portable amp should be enough, unless you are using inefficient full sized headphone. I am more interested on whether it can retain the same level of SQ.


 
  
 From the sound perspectives: 3D imaging (sound stage), separation, micro detail+depth, smoothness...etc, how does iFi Nano iDSD ($189) comparing to the Audioengine D1 ($169) ?


----------



## ClieOS

mannkind246 said:


> From the sound perspectives: 3D imaging (sound stage), separation, micro detail+depth, smoothness...etc, how does iFi Nano iDSD ($189) comparing to the Audioengine D1 ($169) ?


 
  
 Sorry, never heard a D1 before.


----------



## cheznous

Recently upgraded my Nano to the Micro. But still love the Nano for streaming Qobuz lossless from my ipod touch. 
Yes the upgrade is worth it but doesn't take away from the absolute bargain the Nano is. 
It was so cheap I almost didn't buy it. How dumb is that.


----------



## Kane Williams

There's something beastly about the Micro and something cheeky about the Nano! Lol


----------



## cheznous

kane williams said:


> There's something beastly about the Micro and something cheeky about the Nano! Lol



Ifi should really call the new mini the milli. Scale goes something like pico,nano,micro,milli and so on.


----------



## Kane Williams

For most of my listening, I prefer the minimum filter setting but on some occasions the standard is better. The minimum setting seems to add a bit of air around everything and the soundstage seems a little wider and the vocals sit further back in the mix. It seems a bit thinner sounding though. When I have a track that is lacking in vocal definition, the standard setting seems better, bringing the vocal forward and tightening the focus of the soundstage. Do you agree?


----------



## mannkind246

Between iFi Nano iDSD and Leckerton UHA-6S MKII, which DAC produces much wider and clearer sound stage, 3D imaging, smoother vocal, detail separation and depth?


----------



## iFi audio

*Cutting-Edge, Portable* *High-Definition Audio on iOS (update)*
  
 In our opinion, the existing Smartphone is actually more dynamic and more advanced than many dedicated Digital Audio Players (DAPs).
  
 In the last two days, Onkyo Hi-Res Player and KaiserTone have both announced updates – and they are neat ones at that.
  
 Here is a brief summary.
  
*Onkyo HF Player (v2.0.0)*

  
 1.  Support for iOS 8 and 64-Bit devices.
 2. Support of transfer files from AirDrop
 3. Bluetooth 4.0 (BLE required)
 4. Support for 11.2 MHz DoP output (DSD 256 yay!)
 5.Support for 3MHz/6MHz DSD > PCM conversion and DoP Output
  
 Note: IPhone 5S or later required for 11.2MHz DSD.
  
  
  
*KaiserTone (v1.2.6)*

  
 1. iOS 8.1.2 support
 2. Further Optimisation of CPU
 3. Other SQ optimisations.
  
  
 All we can say is go to the App store, update and you are good to go.
  
 From Standard-Definition through to High-Definition – just keep it native and enjoy.


----------



## Kane Williams

This all sounds good. If I have music on an external wifi enabled hard drive, can my iPhone 5s play these files via Onkyo player? Does the media software that comes with such hard drives come in to it these often don't support high res audio?


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> This all sounds good. If I have music on an external wifi enabled hard drive, can my iPhone 5s play these files via Onkyo player? Does the media software that comes with such hard drives come in to it these often don't support high res audio?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Too much info to put into a few words but suffice to say, you download the App and the app runs on your iPhone/iPad and it plays the music stored on there.
  
 If you wish to do what you outlined, you need to look at the Seagate or LaClie - but on iPhone/iPad, they are restricted to their App (like the Seagate app) which ONLY plays through iTunes.
  
 And of course iTunes doesnt do half of what Onkyo HF Player and KaiserTone do....
  
 Cheers


----------



## Kane Williams

Great info and answered my question. I feel that this is the missing link in using a phone/tablet for music playback and as soon as someone writes some software to allow this, it will be a winner!

There is a device by Verbatim that connects to any hard drive to make it wireless. If someone can get this to work, that would be great.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> Great info and answered my question. I feel that this is the missing link in using a phone/tablet for music playback and as soon as someone writes some software to allow this, it will be a winner!
> 
> There is a device by Verbatim that connects to any hard drive to make it wireless. If someone can get this to work, that would be great.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Computer Audio is dynamic (not static) so the changes come every few days/weeks/months whenever, whatever.
  
 Previously, people (including iFi) were disappointed with the storage capacity of the iPhone/iPad. Now the portable NAS drives from Seagate et al have just undone the last hurdle with the iPhone/iPad, namely their storage capacity. Yes it needs refiniing (read: not tied to iTunes) but we are sure it will come.
  
 But don't discount Android - we use the Sony Z2 tablet and phone and they are the bee's knees too.
  
 We are truly in a golden era of portable hi-res audio.


----------



## Kane Williams

I'm not adverse to Android at all, in fact I have a tablet in the house that I was hoping to be my music server but music playback is really glitchy on it, even though it's quite powerful. I wish I'd bought something with a brand name! On the flip side, my iPhone is rock solid, so I would like to use this to access an external hard drive and play back via the iDSD Nano. I use Vox on my MacBook Pro and this will soon be available on iOS. No DoP yet, but this will come soon. DSD is currently converted to PCM.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> I'm not adverse to Android at all, in fact I have a tablet in the house that I was hoping to be my music server but music playback is really glitchy on it, even though it's quite powerful. I wish I'd bought something with a brand name! On the flip side, my iPhone is rock solid, so I would like to use this to access an external hard drive and play back via the iDSD Nano. I use Vox on my MacBook Pro and this will soon be available on iOS. No DoP yet, but this will come soon. DSD is currently converted to PCM.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 When our customers ask us on the Support Ticket System,. we only recommend Sony Z-series on Android.
  
 It is clear Sony is "into audio quality" and are pushing the audio envelope (quality, usability and functionality).
  
 For anyone interested, the Z2 is only slightly lesser than the Z3 but it is significantly cheaper - so we recommend the Z2 as the best bang for the buck.
  
 We also find the whole Z-series VERY stable - no less than iOS (famous last words).
  
 Cheers.


----------



## aemme

Hi, I have a few days the iFi nano ISDC and would like to know if it is better to use the coaxial connection instead of analog. also with foobar 2000 and asio drivers (I have win xp!) nin I can calibrate the buffer size, the music jumps me sometimes and feel deceleration. 
When I use imac with Pure Music, instead it's all adjust


----------



## Kane Williams

aemme said:


> Hi, I have a few days the iFi nano ISDC and would like to know if it is better to use the coaxial connection instead of analog. also with foobar 2000 and asio drivers (I have win xp!) nin I can calibrate the buffer size, the music jumps me sometimes and feel deceleration.
> When I use imac with Pure Music, instead it's all adjust




If you use the coax output you are using the Nano as a USB to SPDIF converter. If you use the analogue outs, you are using the Nano as a DAC.


----------



## aemme

so it would be migliire to aacolto the uacita optics?


----------



## FYL941

Running Tidal with pm-2 off the dsd nano


----------



## Marso

I am very inreressted in the iDSD nano, but I have one last question.
I use Windows and need to hear 2sources mixed by Windows (play music and talk in Skype for example) at the same time.

So does this work with the driver for Windows ? Or is it like many other asio based and only one programm can output sound at time and the other programs are muted?

Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

marso said:


> I am very inreressted in the iDSD nano, but I have one last question.
> I use Windows and need to hear 2sources mixed by Windows (play music and talk in Skype for example) at the same time.
> 
> So does this work with the driver for Windows ? Or is it like many other asio based and only one programm can output sound at time and the other programs are muted?
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 To asnwer your Win question:
  
 1) Yes it needs a driver for Windows.
  
 2) No, you cannot mix different sound subsystem streams, this is a fundamental limitation of Windows, you cannot WASAPI exclusive or ASIO streams with MME (MultiMediaExtensions) etc. streams.
  
 Common Windows software uses MME for sound. To mix sounds within Windows the playback software needs to be set to play via MME and the settings for "shared mode"  must be made suitably.
  
 Then music and for example Skype can be mixed.
  
 Of course in order for all of this to work there has be a mixing of audio streams, so the result is no longer bitperfect and DSD cannot be supported.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## pokenguyen

marso said:


> I am very inreressted in the iDSD nano, but I have one last question.
> I use Windows and need to hear 2sources mixed by Windows (play music and talk in Skype for example) at the same time.
> 
> So does this work with the driver for Windows ? Or is it like many other asio based and only one programm can output sound at time and the other programs are muted?
> ...


 
 It works like your normal onboard audio card, nothing special.


----------



## Marso

ok thanks, i know that the result is no longer bit perfect after mixing. If i want Enjoy music and nothing other i will use foobar200 + wasapi, but i hate i too switch plugs the whole time if i want talk to my firends.
  
 So i´m going to be a iDSD nano owner soon


----------



## Kane Williams

Does the Nano support 32 bit floating point data, as that is how Coppertino say delivers data to a DAC if the DAC supports it. It seems DoP may not be ever be possible with Vox, although they are trying to figure it out.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> Does the Nano support 32 bit floating point data, as that is how Coppertino say delivers data to a DAC if the DAC supports it. It seems DoP may not be ever be possible with Vox, although they are trying to figure it out.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes, the iDSD nano does support 32 Bit.
  
 The Integer mode (it is called INTEGER, not Float) bypasses the whole floating point layer:
  
http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/large_image/MAC%20OSX%20audio%20players%20&%20Integer%20Mode.pdf
  
 Hope this answers.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

kane williams said:


> It seems DoP may not be ever be possible with Vox, although they are trying to figure it out.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 It is possible to convert DSD Files to a so-called DoP-FLAC/ALAC File.
  
 In this case the DoP encoding is part of the file. This way DoP DSD can be played on any player that supports FLAC/ALAC and is bitperfect (even iTunes can then play DSD).
  
 Two examples of such tools are Dsdmaster for Mac (paid for) or the "DSD to PCM Converter"  by Yuki San which is free and can encode DoP with various markers, but requires Windows.
  
 DoP-FLAC with DSD to PCM converter is one way to get native DSD playback on Sony Xperia Z2/3 series Phones and Tablets using the internal "Sony Walkman"  Player rather than third party playback apps. This is what how we do it on the Sonys.
  
 If you need support for Dsdmaster, this will have to come from the software vendor.
  
 http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp/yuki_san/

 http://dsdmaster.blogspot.ca/p/what-is-dsd-master.html
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey all, I have had the Nano for a while and traded for an Apex Audio Glacier, now using an audio brick. My iPhone to the Nano, Cardas RCA TO 1/8" to Grado PS500e or Alclair Reference!!! Audio bliss!!!!!


----------



## tf1216

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey all, I have had the Nano for a while and traded for an Apex Audio Glacier, now using an audio brick. My iPhone to the Nano, Cardas RCA TO 1/8" to Grado PS500e or Alclair Reference!!! Audio bliss!!!!!




Another Alclair owner. Did you get your impressions from the Alclair -Tennessee shop?


----------



## SubSTI

Connected the Nano directly to my Synology DS211+ NAS, started Audiostation on the Synology, choosing USB speakers as output and voila! FLAC up to 192kHZ to my headphone (or amp via cinch) without the need to install drivers.


----------



## iFi audio

Calling iCLUB members:
  
  
*nano/micro iDSD or Retro - BETA firmware v0.16 Beta*
  
_User Note:
 The following is for experienced computer users - if you do not feel comfortable, please do not attempt._


Please find attached the latest beta firmware for the micro iDSD (suitable for nano iDSD and Retro also but not other iFi components).

Beta v0.16 is the same as v4.06, but:

1) Upgrade core code to version 6.6

2) Apply previous Clock and Code optimisation to 6.6 core

3) Fix completely clicks when switching between PCM and DoP DSD

4) Fix for some units where small timing bug on v4.06 caused vinyl static like clicks at 192kHz sample rates

So the key change is an upgraded version of the core code and bug fixes.


*Background to the DoP "pop"*
When the DSD signal is sent as DoP the DoP Standard requires to switch to DSD after a large number of DoP markers have been received, so there is delay when starting the track between receiving PCM and recognising DoP DSD. This is inherent to the DoP standard and is handled in some software via "Play little silence". 

If this is not done the DAC may have unmuted on the PCM signal (which is not Audio) and is then forced to change format, but the format from the USB Section has already changed, so it does a "pop pop" .

Version 4.06 minimised the occurrence of these big bangs. 

To summarise, the DoP "pop" is a DoP issue, which is fixed in a number of software packages and which affects a fair few DACs, but we decided not to rely on the Software Developers to reiolve this upstream issue but fix it in the DoP implementation.

This is the BETA version so it is not for public dissemination as there may be addition revisions before the formal release.

Please do not hesitate to ask - if you have any questions.


----------



## Kane Williams

I'm on a Mac how do I check which firmware I have currently? Cab the firmware be updated using a Mac?


----------



## aemme

The update firmware that I see on the site of iFi can also be done for the Nano iDSD? Worth or is it better to wait for the final one?


----------



## ClieOS

aemme said:


> The update firmware that I see on the site of iFi can also be done for the Nano iDSD? Worth or is it better to wait for the final one?


 
  
 Don't. Nano and Micro iDSD run on different firmware. Mixing them up will brick your iDSD in no time.


----------



## john57

As stated on IFI audio web site:
  
Caution:
 • Do not use the following firmware on any other iFi product not listed above.
 • The micro iDSD firmware and the nano iDSD firmware are NOT the same.
 • Under NO circumstances should you update the nano firmware on the micro or vice versa.
 • Otherwise, there is risk of damage to the respective unit and of voiding your warranty.
 • As the iFi XMOS firmware is heavily customized by iFi in-house, do not attempt to use this firmware on any other XMOS platforms.


----------



## aemme

n the site of iFi sound is said however in the instructions which can be used for micro- and nano ......


----------



## iFi audio

aemme said:


> n the site of iFi sound is said however in the instructions which can be used for micro- and nano ......


 
  
 Hi,
  
 For the iCLUB peopel who are testing the latest BETA firmware v0.16 it is definitely possible to flash on the:
  
*nano iDSD*
*micro iDSD*
*Retro Stereo 50 (launch is very soon)*
  
_But NOT on the other iFi products such as the iDAC and iLINK._
  
 We have to err on the side of caution because we have sold more than a few iDACs and iLINKS and dont wish people to brick their machines.
  
 Our customers get excited when iFi annouce anything and they really go like a bat out of hell!
  
 Hence we state this to get people to ask us - first to clarify.
  
 Further information from the iFi technical support team - so open a ticket and ask away.


----------



## SubSTI

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> For the iCLUB peopel who are testing the latest BETA firmware v0.16 it is definitely possible to flash on the:
> 
> ...


 
 More than happy to be a crash test dummy, but more head-fi'ers will participate if you update your website accordingly, people are anxious to brick their DAC.
"3 Steps: Micro iDSD Firmware Upgrade" It's stated also that beta 0.16 is the same as version 4.06, but the latest Nano version is 4.02...
_"Beta v0.16 is the same as v4.06, but:
1) Upgrade core code to version 6.6
2) Apply previous Clock and Code optimisation to 6.6 core
3) Fix completely clicks when switching between PCM and DoP DSD
4) Fix for some units where small timing bug on v4.06 caused vinyl static like clicks at 192kHz sample rates"_


----------



## iFi audio

substi said:


> More than happy to be a crash test dummy, but more head-fi'ers will participate if you update your website accordingly, people are anxious to brick their DAC.
> "3 Steps: Micro iDSD Firmware Upgrade" It's stated also that beta 0.16 is the same as version 4.06, but the latest Nano version is 4.02...
> _"Beta v0.16 is the same as v4.06, but:
> 1) Upgrade core code to version 6.6
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Nice spot!
  
 v4.02 is the latest official firmware for the nano iDSD
 v4.06 is the latest official firmware for the micro iDSD
  
 BETA v0.16 is for both the nano iDSD and micro iDSD (and also soon-to-be launched Stereo 50).
  
  
  
 Originally (a few years ago) we used the XMOS chipset and was reliant on the XMOS software.
  
 But as we knew the XMOS chipset was under-utilised, over time, we brought this in-house which has enabled us in Subaru WRX terms to do a _ProDrive_ and "remap"  the XMOS chipset (as evident from the Quad DSD256 and Octa-DSD512/768kHz levels attained).
  
 Our code is now 100% in-house; and soon all iFi products will move over to the same, iFi XMOS firmware platform.
  
 The upcoming iDAC2 will of course also run on this same iFi coded platform.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## SubSTI

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Nice spot!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the clarification, ticket raised!
  
 With the WRX ECU mapping comparison you are appealing to my other hobby, happy Subaru WRX STI driver


----------



## SubSTI

You need to be a member of the iCLUB to beta test....Apparently I am not i (enough).


----------



## iFi audio

substi said:


> You need to be a member of the iCLUB to beta test....Apparently I am not i (enough).


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Sorry - the Beta testing has to be limited to the iCLUB members.
  
 BUT iCLUB memberships do come up once in a while.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler ALERT!



Hint: some major developments happening here that you may like:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753978/ifi-audio-retro-stereo-50-discussion-thread


----------



## gekonuss

Hi guys,
 I´ve encountered a bit of problem with my iFi nano. While playing DSD file, the volume control of foobar is completely inactive, the only thing I am able to change the volume is the volume knob on Nano itself. The problem is, that for my Hifiman HE-4 the volume isn´t simply enough, while for FLAC files I run some 3/4 of volume potential, on DSD file I can even go to max volume. I suspect some setting in foobar to be the cause but dont know which one. Anyone any idea?
 Thx for help


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tf1216 said:


> Another Alclair owner. Did you get your impressions from the Alclair -Tennessee shop?




Sorry for the delayed response, yes I did, Snoopy fitted me! 

Are you going to attend the Nashville Head Fi Meet on 4/18, it is Vol. 3?!?! I am speaking to Alclair about demoing the Reference and RSM.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Nice spot!
> 
> ...




Are any of these updates for the Apple/Yosemete OS yet?

Thanks!


----------



## Kane Williams

gekonuss said:


> Hi guys,
> I´ve encountered a bit of problem with my iFi nano. While playing DSD file, the volume control of foobar is completely inactive, the only thing I am able to change the volume is the volume knob on Nano itself. The problem is, that for my Hifiman HE-4 the volume isn´t simply enough, while for FLAC files I run some 3/4 of volume potential, on DSD file I can even go to max volume. I suspect some setting in foobar to be the cause but dont know which one. Anyone any idea?
> Thx for help




Don't know how, but you simply need Foobar to output full level, then use the Nano as an analog attenuator. May be this is what is happening at present? I have my Nano turned 3/4 to full with any file type.


----------



## ClieOS

gekonuss said:


> Hi guys,
> I´ve encountered a bit of problem with my iFi nano. While playing DSD file, the volume control of foobar is completely inactive, the only thing I am able to change the volume is the volume knob on Nano itself. The problem is, that for my Hifiman HE-4 the volume isn´t simply enough, while for FLAC files I run some 3/4 of volume potential, on DSD file I can even go to max volume. I suspect some setting in foobar to be the cause but dont know which one. Anyone any idea?
> Thx for help


 
  
  


kane williams said:


> Don't know how, but you simply need Foobar to output full level, then use the Nano as an analog attenuator. May be this is what is happening at present? I have my Nano turned 3/4 to full with any file type.


 
  
 If your Foobar is set to output DSD to iDSD nano, then no digital control is the right thing (Foorbar automatically disables volume control on DSD anyway).
  
 Real DSD *CAN NOT* have an digital volume control, that's the reason why it doesn't and shouldn't work. The reason is, digital volume control works by reducing the bit depth of the digital files to reduce its loudness, and every -6dB means 1 bit of bit depth is lost.. Given DSD is a ONE bit format, reducing it by a mere -6dB will totally turn it into, well, a big nothing. That's why you will never want to apply any digital volume control to DSD. If you ever see a DSD playback that offers digital volume control, it usually means the data has been internally converted to PCM, followed by the usual digital volume control, then output to hardware.
  
 Also, DSD is normally -6dB less in volume when compared to PCM. So getting less volume is normal as well.


----------



## Kane Williams

Digital volume control is never recommended for keeping the audio as pure as possible due to the decrease in "bits".


----------



## gekonuss

clieos said:


> If your Foobar is set to output DSD to iDSD nano, then no digital control is the right thing (Foorbar automatically disables volume control on DSD anyway).
> 
> Real DSD *CAN NOT* have an digital volume control, that's the reason why it doesn't and shouldn't work. The reason is, digital volume control works by reducing the bit depth of the digital files to reduce its loudness, and every -6dB means 1 bit of bit depth is lost.. Given DSD is a ONE bit format, reducing it by a mere -6dB will totally turn it into, well, a big nothing. That's why you will never want to apply any digital volume control to DSD. If you ever see a DSD playback that offers digital volume control, it usually means the data has been internally converted to PCM, followed by the usual digital volume control, then output to hardware.
> 
> Also, DSD is normally -6dB less in volume when compared to PCM. So getting less volume is normal as well.


 
 Perfect explanation for which I have to thank you. It´s a pitty, but this means, that I will have to use for the DSD files my HD650 instead of HE-4, because they are loud enough, for the PCM i will use the HE-4. In future I plan to buy separate AMP or upgrade to iFi micro, depends on my financial situation.
 Anyway, thx again.


----------



## technobear

gekonuss said:


> Hi guys,
> I´ve encountered a bit of problem with my iFi nano. While playing DSD file, the volume control of foobar is completely inactive, the only thing I am able to change the volume is the volume knob on Nano itself. The problem is, that for my Hifiman HE-4 the volume isn´t simply enough, while for FLAC files I run some 3/4 of volume potential, on DSD file I can even go to max volume. I suspect some setting in foobar to be the cause but dont know which one. Anyone any idea?
> Thx for help




The iFi nano iDSD is designed for portable use with portable headphones.

The HifiMan HE-4 is not a portable headphone, it is a power hungry behemoth.

You need a micro iDSD.


----------



## gekonuss

technobear said:


> The iFi nano iDSD is designed for portable use with portable headphones.
> 
> The HifiMan HE-4 is not a portable headphone, it is a power hungry behemoth.
> 
> You need a micro iDSD.


 
 Yeah, I know, I´ve had Schiit asgard, but after buying nano, I didnt like the sound of it, so I sold it, although it might have been sufficient for HE-4 powering. Never mind, I will have to save some gold and buy the Micro.


----------



## tf1216

gekonuss said:


> Yeah, I know, I´ve had Schiit asgard, but after buying nano, I didnt like the sound of it, so I sold it, although it might have been sufficient for HE-4 powering. Never mind, I will have to save some gold and buy the Micro.


 
  
 You could always try to WIN a Micro iDSD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753978/ifi-audio-retro-stereo-50-discussion-thread/30#post_11339039


----------



## Marso

Today my Nano arrived.
 It sounds great, and has enough power do drive my fidelio x2 well. it´s my first DAC/Amp and i really like it! 
  
 But i have a little problem,
 I installed the driver, set audio out to it, but i can´t select 384khz?
 I Installed the latest Driver 2.23 and i use windows 8.1.
 Annyone had the same Problem and know how to solve it?


----------



## technobear

marso said:


> Today my Nano arrived.
> It sounds great, and has enough power do drive my fidelio x2 well. it´s my first DAC/Amp and i really like it!
> 
> But i have a little problem,
> ...




Do you have any 384 kHz music files?

If so, which application are you using to play them?


----------



## Marso

i use foobar200 with wasapi in event mode, and no i have no 384khz, the most is only cd quality. So it´s nothing dramatical at the moment.
 but i wan´t to know whats wrong.
 when i start pc the ifi software show 384khz but can´t set it in windows, thers only the option for 32Bit 192Khz.


----------



## technobear

marso said:


> i use foobar200 with wasapi in event mode, and no i have no 384khz, the most is only cd quality. So it´s nothing dramatical at the moment.
> but i wan´t to know whats wrong.
> when i start pc the ifi software show 384khz but can´t set it in windows, thers only the option for 32Bit 192Khz.




Probably all Windows can manage. Irrelevant anyway. 

I would recommend installing foo_out_asio and using that instead of WASAPI.


----------



## Marso

ok, i will try the  asio plugin


----------



## iFi audio

marso said:


> Today my Nano arrived.
> It sounds great, and has enough power do drive my fidelio x2 well. it´s my first DAC/Amp and i really like it!
> 
> But i have a little problem,
> ...




Hi

The setting in Windows is for "shared audio session", where other audio (e.g. System sounds) is mixed with the main stream. Windows itself limits this to 192kHz (probably the list build into the dialog), regardless of the devices's audio capabilities.

Cheers.


----------



## Marso

okay, so all is working correctly 
  
 thanks.
  
 btw. you company has great support!


----------



## iFi audio

marso said:


> okay, so all is working correctly
> 
> thanks.
> 
> btw. you company has great support!


 
  
 Thank you.
  
 Wil relay on the Support Ticket Team - as they are very low key.


----------



## Rave77

> (Update: Dac suddenly stops processing the sound when another application is simultaneously used like youtube on web browser and mediamonkey. Need to turn volume knob off and on for the sound to be again processed through the DAC)


 
  
 Can any nano idsd owner confirm that the above is true.
  
 I'm looking to getting one for desktop use but can't be done with having to turn it off like above guy says.


----------



## Marso

i use mine only with my pc atm. never had problems with this yet. i often use it for voip and music or gaming at the same time.


----------



## Rave77

Good to know thanks. I can go ahead and buy one now.


----------



## ClieOS

rave77 said:


> Can any nano idsd owner confirm that the above is true.
> 
> I'm looking to getting one for desktop use but can't be done with having to turn it off like above guy says.


 
  
 It is true if you have MediaMonkey's output set to either ASIO or WASAPI, which in turn tells MediaMonkey to be the only software that can use iDSD as long as it is still active. So when you run a second software that needs to use iDSD, they begin to fight over which get to use it, then one of them (usually the second one) tends to crash.
  
 The easy fix are (1) don't use ASIO / WASAPI at any software if you need to use more than one at the same time, or (2) Only use one software at a time.


----------



## Rave77

Great thanks.


----------



## Dixter

One of the updates for JRiver Media Center 20 was to allow other programs to be piped into JRiver so it could be used as DSP processor for other programs.... not sure if it will work that way with mediamonkey...   but you might try it...


----------



## Rave77

So I got the nano and it works but I'm getting the odd crackle plying back music via PC usb, it's annoying. Any help with this? thanks.


----------



## technobear

rave77 said:


> So I got the nano and it works but I'm getting the odd crackle plying back music via PC usb, it's annoying. Any help with this? thanks.




What operating system?

What music player?

What driver?


----------



## Rave77

Windows 8.1
  
 musicbee but it happens with all media players I have tried.
  
 Latest driver from iFi


----------



## ClieOS

rave77 said:


> Windows 8.1
> 
> musicbee but it happens with all media players I have tried.
> 
> Latest driver from iFi


 

  Does it happens all the time (as soon as the nano is plugged in) or only happens after idling for awhile


----------



## Rave77

It's silent with no audio playing, with audio there is low crackling noises, idle or not


----------



## technobear

rave77 said:


> It's silent with no audio playing, with audio there is low crackling noises, idle or not




Have you messed with the iFi driver settings?

The USB Streaming Mode should be set to 'Reliable' or 'Safe'.


----------



## Marso

had the same problem, but it´s gone now, don´t know why, and i played with the driver settings, still no problems, except i go to low or minimal latence or buffer is set way too low. But on the day i recieved it there was some crackling noise even on stock settings


----------



## Rave77

Sorted it, it was on old firmware, upgraded to the latest and it's running great.
  
  It sounds real good with the Fidelio X2.


----------



## Marso

rave77 said:


> Sorted it, it was on old firmware, upgraded to the latest and it's running great.
> 
> It sounds real good with the Fidelio X2.




Nice to hear all is ok now.

Btw. I'm running the same setup as you, x2 with nano. I like the combo too


----------



## bavinck

Thinking of buying one of these. Does anyone know if this work OTG with a Note 3? Thanks so much guys.


----------



## technobear

bavinck said:


> Thinking of buying one of these. Does anyone know if this work OTG with a Note 3? Thanks so much guys.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs


----------



## cronsell

Anyone listening to the iDSD Nano with Cardas EM5813s? I'm thinking it might be a great portable combo for those with Audeze/iFi home rigs...like myself.


----------



## Juventino77

Hey guys
  
 Im looking at buying the iFi Nano iDSD and wanted to get some thoughts.
 I  wont be using it with a pair of headphones much but most use will be playing Music from a laptop to the Nano and then the Nano to a Stereo integrated Amp through to Speakers.
  
 Will the Nano be a good option? I am looking for a nice starter DAC which if need be I can also use with my iPhone
  
 All input welcome.


----------



## sfo1972

juventino77 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Im looking at buying the iFi Nano iDSD and wanted to get some thoughts.
> I  wont be using it with a pair of headphones much but most use will be playing Music from a laptop to the Nano and then the Nano to a Stereo integrated Amp through to Speakers.
> ...


 

 Its a good starter DAC and performs well in both setup as a Headphone AMP and as a Pre-amp. Bear in mind, its a starter DAC and can't be pinned against the heavy hitters, but it can hold its own in a head to head comparison. I would highly recommend it and you should also consider Schitt's modi2 as an option.
  
 Let me know if you have specific questions as I have owned the Nano for a few months and used it on the road and at home with headphones and as a pre-amp.
  
 Cheers


----------



## ClieOS

juventino77 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Im looking at buying the iFi Nano iDSD and wanted to get some thoughts.
> I  wont be using it with a pair of headphones much but most use will be playing Music from a laptop to the Nano and then the Nano to a Stereo integrated Amp through to Speakers.
> ...


 
  
 While the headphone amp section isn't really top-of-the-line, it is adequate for the most part. The DAC section is however excellent. I haven't find anything under $200 that can best nano as a DAC only, and certainly better than most starter DAC that I have heard.


----------



## Kane Williams

Also, if you are going to use it for DSD, according to Ifi, the DAC chip they use is the only one that gives equal performance with both PCM and DSD.


----------



## walfredo

Really amazing portable dac/amp.  The best I've had.
  
 Wonderful synergy with the Audio Technica W1000X and the Sennheiser 595.  With the W1000X, it is simply mind bogling.  Very organic, detailed and fun!!
  
 That said, the line out (RCA) is not nearly as impressive.  It sounds a bit cold in the stereo systems I've tried.  Do other folks experience this?  Am I just unlucky in the synergy of my tries?
  
 []s
 Walfredo


----------



## sfo1972

walfredo said:


> Really amazing portable dac/amp.  The best I've had.
> 
> Wonderful synergy with the Audio Technica W1000X and the Sennheiser 595.  With the W1000X, it is simply mind bogling.  Very organic, detailed and fun!!
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Agreed on your findings of the Headphone side of the DAC.
  
 I recently moved the Nano to my listening room downstairs instead to swap out my Oppo HA-1 DAC.  Although I have done a comparison between the two earlier, it became clear to me that the Nano is not as full bodied as the Oppoa, again to my ears only and your YMMV. I listened over the entire weekend last week and found that the RCA outputs are good, but not amazingly fantastic like the Oppo's DAC.
  
 Having said that, the Nano is still an amazing DAC and Headphone Amp all bundled into a small package and for a very good price. If I was advising any friend to by his or her first DAC for a hifi setup, I would point them to the iFi Nano.


----------



## walfredo

sfo1972 said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > Really amazing portable dac/amp.  The best I've had.
> ...


 
  
 Absolutely, sfo1972!!
  
 I have recommended the ifi nano a couple of times already.  100% satisfied "clients".  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It is just that, to me, the headphone out is among the best I've heard at any price.  But the RCA out I have to qualify as a "good value".  I wonder if anyone understands why.


----------



## sfo1972

walfredo said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > walfredo said:
> ...


 

 I love the built-in battery feature as well. Allows me to travel with it and use it instead of my iOS devices' basic DACs and gives new life to the music. I use the camera adapter on the line out into the Nano. Have you tried that?


----------



## walfredo

sfo1972 said:


> I love the built-in battery feature as well. Allows me to travel with it and use it instead of my iOS devices' basic DACs and gives new life to the music. I use the camera adapter on the line out into the Nano. Have you tried that?


 
  
 For curiosity, I tried with my Android HTC M7.  But it did not work.  Maybe I am doing something wrong, but my main use is really with a computer, so I didn't investigate.


----------



## ClieOS

walfredo said:


> For curiosity, I tried with my Android HTC M7.  But it did not work.  Maybe I am doing something wrong, but my main use is really with a computer, so I didn't investigate.


 
  
 Android is a hit or miss when it comes to USB DAC support on different models of smartphone. If it doesn't work, then very likely you need to install either one of these: USB Audio Player Pro, Onkyo HD Player, and HibyMusic.


----------



## iFi audio

walfredo said:


> For curiosity, I tried with my Android HTC M7.  But it did not work.  Maybe I am doing something wrong, but my main use is really with a computer, so I didn't investigate.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Open a support ticket
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php
  
 and we'll email through the pdf which outlines Android and USB Audio playback. So you know where to look to confirm if your M7 can output a digital audio signal.
  
 In one sentence, one needs to confirm the specific Android is capable of USB Host Mode.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## walfredo

ifi audio said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > For curiosity, I tried with my Android HTC M7.  But it did not work.  Maybe I am doing something wrong, but my main use is really with a computer, so I didn't investigate.
> ...


 

 Wow!!  Thanks for the prompt response.


----------



## sfo1972

walfredo said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I love the built-in battery feature as well. Allows me to travel with it and use it instead of my iOS devices' basic DACs and gives new life to the music. I use the camera adapter on the line out into the Nano. Have you tried that?
> ...


 
 Get it working buddy - its worth the effort, you can have Hirez on the go for minimal additional bucks. Make sure to connect through the line out and not the standard headphone jack.
  


ifi audio said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > For curiosity, I tried with my Android HTC M7.  But it did not work.  Maybe I am doing something wrong, but my main use is really with a computer, so I didn't investigate.
> ...


 
 Good on ya mate....
  


walfredo said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > walfredo said:
> ...


 
 There you have it....let us know when it all works out. And your impressions, I will hold mine off until I hear yours


----------



## diamondears

Anybody tried the iFi nano iDSD with the NAD HP50 headphones? Try it. Very highly recommended for those looking at closed back cans. It even took the throne from my open-back planars.


----------



## Juventino77

sfo1972 said:


> Its a good starter DAC and performs well in both setup as a Headphone AMP and as a Pre-amp. Bear in mind, its a starter DAC and can't be pinned against the heavy hitters, but it can hold its own in a head to head comparison. I would highly recommend it and you should also consider Schitt's modi2 as an option.
> 
> Let me know if you have specific questions as I have owned the Nano for a few months and used it on the road and at home with headphones and as a pre-amp.
> 
> Cheers




Thank you, this settles it then, I will be getting one!
For the price I can't go wrong and a good stepping stone to possibly a higher quality dad at a later stage


----------



## sfo1972

juventino77 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Its a good starter DAC and performs well in both setup as a Headphone AMP and as a Pre-amp. Bear in mind, its a starter DAC and can't be pinned against the heavy hitters, but it can hold its own in a head to head comparison. I would highly recommend it and you should also consider Schitt's modi2 as an option.
> ...


 

 Good luck and let me know your impressions once you get it...
  
 Cheers


----------



## bretemm

Does ifi have a product that will let me change the bass or tremble? 

I actually use Schiit Audio but I'm wanting to just explore other sounds and companies, 

I can only use earbuds because of a medical devise I have (I can't get by strong magnets by my head)


----------



## diamondears

bretemm said:


> Does ifi have a product that will let me change the bass or tremble?
> 
> I actually use Schiit Audio but I'm wanting to just explore other sounds and companies,
> 
> I can only use earbuds because of a medical devise I have (I can't get by strong magnets by my head)



iFi micro iDSD. 3D switch adds treble and XBass switch adds bass. But since you'll use earbuds, you could try iFi nano iDSD and use iPhone with Onkyo Player app which had EQ to tweak the bass and treble.


----------



## bretemm

Great, but how much is that? 
So I would only need that 1 Ifi? 
Thanks! 


diamondears said:


> iFi micro iDSD. 3D switch adds treble and XBass switch adds bass. But since you'll use earbuds, you could try iFi nano iDSD and use iPhone with Onkyo Player app which had EQ to tweak the bass and treble.


----------



## ClieOS

Saying 3D Holographic Sound adds treble might be a bit too simplified


----------



## diamondears

bretemm said:


> Great, but how much is that?
> So I would only need that 1 Ifi?
> Thanks!



Yes. You can use your earbud with that. If you want desktop, try iFi micro iCAN. It has more 3D and XBass levels. Check their website. 



clieos said:


> Saying 3D Holographic Sound adds treble might be a bit too simplified



Yes. It's mainly trying to make the sound more holographic or 3D, but most times I find it adds more treble. Yeah, not exactly a treble switch. Another "treble switch" would be the digital filter. Using Standard Filter results to more treble.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I looked and the site didn't show prices or even able to add them to a cart, but I saw just a dac was $4-700? 


diamondears said:


> Yes. You can use your earbud with that. If you want desktop, try iFi micro iCAN. It has more 3D and XBass levels. Check their website.
> Yes. It's mainly trying to make the sound more holographic or 3D, but most times I find it adds more treble. Yeah, not exactly a treble switch. Another "treble switch" would be the digital filter. Using Standard Filter results to more treble.


----------



## diamondears

bretemm said:


> Thank you, I looked and the site didn't show prices or even able to add them to a cart, but I saw just a dac was $4-700?



The iFi micro iDSD is around $500. It's a portable DAC + HP amp. The iFi micro iCAN is around $300 iirc, but it's a HP amp only, so you'll need a separate DAC. But it's a Class A HP amp. 

What would be your source player? For IEM/earbuds, I suggest just buy the iFi nano iDSD ($200) and just use EQ on your source player to tweak treble, miss and bass frequencies. The iFi nano iDSD is some terrific sounding gear. You won't need any treble not bass switch. It has 2 digital filters (interchangeable), so you can use that to tweak the sound.


----------



## HPiper

Anybody using the Nano iDSD with a Samsung Galaxy? Just wondering how well that works if at all.


----------



## shabta

I use it with a galaxy note 4. It works just fine!


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well my source would be my appletv or possibly my stereo "coaxl", but tho, I use Schiit Audio right now and it sounds great for only "$200" for both the Amp and Dac, is the Ifi worth it? 





diamondears said:


> The iFi micro iDSD is around $500. It's a portable DAC + HP amp. The iFi micro iCAN is around $300 iirc, but it's a HP amp only, so you'll need a separate DAC. But it's a Class A HP amp.
> 
> What would be your source player? For IEM/earbuds, I suggest just buy the iFi nano iDSD ($200) and just use EQ on your source player to tweak treble, miss and bass frequencies. The iFi nano iDSD is some terrific sounding gear. You won't need any treble not bass switch. It has 2 digital filters (interchangeable), so you can use that to tweak the sound.


----------



## shabta

Quote:


bretemm said:


> Ok, well my source would be my appletv or possibly my stereo "coaxl", but tho, I use Schiit Audio right now and it sounds great for only "$200" for both the Amp and Dac, is the Ifi worth it?


 
 When you mention earbuds, do you mean higher end in ears? If you are really just using cheap earbuds, don't worry about the source. With the Schiit you are using, a waaay better upgrade would be to improve your buds if your medical condition allows.


----------



## bretemm

Well I have the klipsch s3 right now and I'm looking for great or better ear buds but, im not too sure what would be a great quality ear bud (in-ear)? I looked at the Shure 846 but that's kinda allot right now, so what would you suggest? Thanks! And I mainly listen to classic rock and indie rock 





shabta said:


> Quote:
> When you mention earbuds, do you mean higher end in ears? If you are really just using cheap earbuds, don't worry about the source. With the Schiit you are using, a waaay better upgrade would be to improve your buds if your medical condition allows.


----------



## shabta

bretemm said:


> Well I have the klipsch s3 right now and I'm looking for great or better ear buds but, im not too sure what would be a great quality ear bud (in-ear)? I looked at the Shure 846 but that's kinda allot right now, so what would you suggest? Thanks! And I mainly listen to classic rock and indie rock


 
 Sorry, I don't really use earbuds. Ask in some of the portable headphone threads. I am sure that you will be much better off spending new money on better earbuds than a better source.


----------



## diamondears

bretemm said:


> Ok, well my source would be my appletv or possibly my stereo "coaxl", but tho, I use Schiit Audio right now and it sounds great for only "$200" for both the Amp and Dac, is the Ifi worth it?



Haven't heard the Schiits, so can't really tell. But of all my portables and portables I've heard, the iFi nano iDSD is worth it...in fact, I hear it to be better than its bigger brother iFi micro iDSD.


----------



## SoAmusing777

How does everyone feel about the nano iDSD vs the GeekOut 450?


----------



## iFi audio

*Beta firmware - Testing Solutions to Spotify/Tidal streaming on Android and DSD256 on MAC*
  
  
*Warning. 

 Please try this only if you are comfortable with upgrading the firmware on your nano iDSD/micro iDSD/Retro Stereo 50 Beta firmware allows one to:*
  
 
 
*1)* Version 4.8 Beta - Output audio for Android if you encounter lack of compatibility with Device X and Spotify/Tidal* etc., USB Host mode remains required. 
 

Devices tested so far Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Samsung Galaxy S4, allows system audio, including Games and Android Music Playback via iFi iDSD etc.
We have developed a Firmware workaround that enables this for several Android Phones in our possession, but need wider testing.
  
 
 
*2)* Version 4.8.4 - DSD256 via DoP for iDSD nano (and upcoming iDAC2 micro) is now supported, using a special beta firmware. This firmware is redundant on iDSD micro and Retro Stereo 50.
 

This is primarily for Mac, for Windows ASIO Native remains recommended.
Note that this Firmware unlocks 705k/768kHz sample rates on the iDSD nano and iDAC2 micro with hardware that mutes on 705/768k PCM. 
As Mac's default the audio to the highest rate this means there will be no audio until you lower the sample rate in the control panel to 384khz.
  
 

Note that on Windows either Firmware update requires the Version 2.23 iFi Driver, earlier versions are NOT supported.
  
  
 Please open a support ticket here to receive this firmware
  
http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
Or open a ticket and contact your iCLUB conciege
  
 Thanks


----------



## walfredo

soamusing777 said:


> How does everyone feel about the nano iDSD vs the GeekOut 450?


 

 I had the GO 450.  It is a good product.
  
 But IMHO the nano is better.  More engaging sound.  More fun to listen.  The Geek Out is a tad cold.


----------



## mdiogofs

Hi. I imagine that on the go this amp could be good. But if at home, I want to use a better amp, can I do it without double amping? Similar to to a DAPs Line Out, a clean direct DAC exit/output. All audio outputs are using the internal amplifier?


----------



## technobear

mdiogofs said:


> Hi. I imagine that on the go this amp could be good. But if at home, I want to use a better amp, can I do it without double amping?




Yes.


----------



## mdiogofs

How?


----------



## technobear

The LINE OUT is through the RCA sockets on the front panel of the nano iDSD.

Turning the volume to maximum causes the stepped attenuator volume control to be bypassed. The straight output of the DAC is then sent through the RCAs at a standard 2 Volts.


----------



## mdiogofs

Oh...That's interesting. Thanks.


----------



## mdiogofs

Sorry for DP. But with this implementation the headphone out is also a line out at max volume right? Not just the RCAs right?


----------



## technobear

mdiogofs said:


> Sorry for DP. But with this implementation the headphone out is also a line out at max volume right? Not just the RCAs right?




No. I believe there is another chip buffer before the headphone out.

Edit: not completely sure about that. It's in this thread somewhere but I can't find it.


----------



## ClieOS

technobear said:


> No. I believe there is another chip buffer before the headphone out.
> 
> Edit: not completely sure about that. It's in this thread somewhere but I can't find it.


 
 The same chip acts as the headphone driver as well as the buffer, depends on the volume.


----------



## diamondears

technobear said:


> The LINE OUT is through the RCA sockets on the front panel of the nano iDSD.
> 
> Turning the volume to maximum causes the stepped attenuator volume control to be bypassed. The straight output of the DAC is then sent through the RCAs at a standard 2 Volts.


If thru RCA its 2Vrms, if thru HP out its 1.6Vrms?


----------



## diamondears

Also, would the sound be different between the RCA outs vs HP out? Or should it be the same? (I'm hearing them differently but maybe it's the cables.)


----------



## technobear

diamondears said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The LINE OUT is through the RCA sockets on the front panel of the nano iDSD.
> ...




It might be 1.6 Volts. It's not in iFi's specs for the nano and I can't find it in the thread.


----------



## ClieOS

RCA and headphone-out are the same 1.6Vrms. They are also internally linked in I am not mistaken.


----------



## mdiogofs

That leads to my previous question. Probably if volume is maxed out, HO is also a LO, if both RCAs and HO both share the same max volume amp bypass implementation.


----------



## PedroH

Just bought the iDSD. Great component for my travelling set. Happy with the sound right out of the box.


----------



## diamondears

Yes, that's true. I just thought my understanding is incorrect re Vrms out of the RCA/LO and HO.


----------



## SptTablo

Hello,
  
 I have question to current ifi Nano iDSD owners.
  
 I recently got the unit and my unit has some weird things going on.
  
 1. RCA output port is not straight. 
  
 2. Headphone out wobbles. 
  
 3. I do not have black pouch in my package
  
 Are these normal?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## shabta

spttablo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have question to current ifi Nano iDSD owners.
> 
> ...




Nope not normal. Mine is solidly built and has a pouch.


----------



## SptTablo

shabta said:


> Nope not normal. Mine is solidly built and has a pouch.




Hi Shabta, thanks for the info.


----------



## walfredo

shabta said:


> spttablo said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...


 
  
 +1.  Mine as well is very solid and I also got a pouch.


----------



## HPiper

spttablo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have question to current ifi Nano iDSD owners.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds to me like you somehow got shipped a return and not a new one. Happened to me once too.


----------



## SptTablo

shabta said:


> Nope not normal. Mine is solidly built and has a pouch.


 
  
  


walfredo said:


> +1.  Mine as well is very solid and I also got a pouch.


 
  
 Okay. 
  
 So I have contacted ifi regarding to issues that I have posted and also addition of noise occurrence when the headphone out wobbles - found this issue after trying with different kinds of cable (from headphone to mini cable).
  
 They are sending the PCB so that I can replace that and the pouch.
  
 I am just wondering why they can't just send the new unit with new box.


----------



## SptTablo

hpiper said:


> Sounds to me like you somehow got shipped a return and not a new one. Happened to me once too.


 
 Weird thing is that the box was sealed. 
  
 IFI is claiming that it is indeed a quality control issue and they are sending me new PCB but I'd rather receive new box.
  
 It just doesn't feel great when product that I purchased BNIB from authorized retailer on ifi's website and what I receive is a unit with wobbling headphone out and one of the screw is undone when I opened the unit.


----------



## Poimandres

So skip ifi and send the unit back to where you purchased it.


----------



## mdiogofs

The DAC is a DSD1793 right? Single implementation ou double as the bigger brother Micro?


----------



## ClieOS

mdiogofs said:


> The DAC is a DSD1793 right? Single implementation ou double as the bigger brother Micro?


 
  
 Nano: single DAC
 Micro: double DAC


----------



## diamondears

mdiogofs said:


> The DAC is a DSD1793 right? Single implementation ou double as the bigger brother Micro?



Nano is single, but to my ears the nano's sound is better. Don't know why. Maybe this is the reason the Retro 50 has a single DAC chip too. The sound out of the nano is just great. Maybe simpler or shorter path is indeed better. If the nano's 1.63Vrms is enough for your phone and your budget is limited, go for the nano and don't try stretching your wallet is my honest advise.


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> Nano is single, but to my ears the nano's sound is better. Don't know why. Maybe this is the reason the Retro 50 has a single DAC chip too. The sound out of the nano is just great. Maybe simpler or shorter path is indeed better. If the nano's 1.63Vrms is enough for your phone and your budget is limited, go for the nano and don't try stretching your wallet is my honest advise.


 
  Interesting that you got such a different result that most. Can you say more about how you tested or determined that the Nano has better sound?


----------



## HPiper

Just in terms of DSD how does the iFi dacs both Nano and Micro, compare to other DSD capable dacs, for example the Concero HD and others like that. I have never heard a DSD music file so I suppose it may be very difficult to tell one from another. At any rate I would expect to give up some quality based on the price but how much is what I am asking.


----------



## diamondears

shabta said:


> Interesting that you got such a different result that most. Can you say more about how you tested or determined that the Nano has better sound?



Which one has different chips? The Retro 50 and nano?

Compared just listening to them for a long time. With same source (iPhone 6), same recordings and same HP that's very neutral and accurate such as the NAD Viso HP50.


----------



## diamondears

I find the nano more organic, natural, especially on the mids. If t can handle my HP and recording, I find myself reaching for it more than the micro. Ymmv.


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> I find the nano more organic, natural, especially on the mids. If t can handle my HP and recording, I find myself reaching for it more than the micro. Ymmv.


 
 Ok so now I understand. You are comparing the nano as a standalone to the micro as a standalone. I think that the HP50 doesn't scale very much with amps, I think I recall you saying somewhere that you think that the HP50 sounds worse out of an amp than out of your iPhone ( which is confusing because in that case why would you ever use the nano at all?). That isn't my experience but I would say the HP50 sound changes only slightly with amplification. But even if what you say is the case, it seems that your experience may be very peculiar to the HP50. I can think of lots of headphones that will sound like crap if you try to use the nano to power them but will sound good on the micro, because the amp on the micro is much better. 
  
 As for dacs feeding a separate amp, I seriously doubt the nano sounds better. The advantages of a two chip solution aside, my experience with IFI iPurifier is that alone makes the nano and my other dacs sound more refined. That is built into the micro. 
  
 Of course at the end of the day if the amp can drive your headphones then  portability could be a deciding factor: The nano is pocketable.


----------



## diamondears

shabta said:


> Ok so now I understand. You are comparing the nano as a standalone to the micro as a standalone. I think that the HP50 doesn't scale very much with amps, I think I recall you saying somewhere that you think that the HP50 sounds worse out of an amp than out of your iPhone ( which is confusing because in that case why would you ever use the nano at all?). That isn't my experience but I would say the HP50 sound changes only slightly with amplification. But even if what you say is the case, it seems that your experience may be very peculiar to the HP50. I can think of lots of headphones that will sound like crap if you try to use the nano to power them but will sound good on the micro, because the amp on the micro is much better.
> 
> As for dacs feeding a separate amp, I seriously doubt the nano sounds better. The advantages of a two chip solution aside, my experience with IFI iPurifier is that alone makes the nano and my other dacs sound more refined. That is built into the micro.
> 
> Of course at the end of the day if the amp can drive your headphones then  portability could be a deciding factor: The nano is pocketable.



I said in the NAD HP50 thread that it sounds warm on my DESKTOP amp, which is the O2, and which is coming from my Audiolab 8200CD as DAC and iPhone 6 as player. Many HPs benefit from desktop amps on the bass department in terms of presence/mass because of more scale/current IMO. This happenned consistently on all the HPs I've had. So I think that's the reason the HP50 sounded warmer. It actually sounded bit more detailed, but the treble and mids didn't became "more present", but the bass does. 

On the nano, with only the iPhone 6 connected to it, the HP50 didn't become warmer but became more detailed, cleaner, and bringing in that iFi house sound into the HP.

Interestingly, on the micro, the sound becomes "less clean", but probably more detailed. However, it's like the details, treble especially, becomes more mixed-up? 

I'm using the Minimum Phase digital filter on both nano and micro. Maybe it's the amp section. Maybe I should compare their DACs only using my amp. Will report back once I have the time.


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> I said in the NAD HP50 thread that it sounds warm on my DESKTOP amp, which is the O2, and which is coming from my Audiolab 8200CD as DAC and iPhone 6 as player. Many HPs benefit from desktop amps on the bass department in terms of presence/mass because of more scale/current IMO. This happenned consistently on all the HPs I've had. So I think that's the reason the HP50 sounded warmer. It actually sounded bit more detailed, but the treble and mids didn't became "more present", but the bass does.
> 
> On the nano, with only the iPhone 6 connected to it, the HP50 didn't become warmer but became more detailed, cleaner, and bringing in that iFi house sound into the HP.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for clarifying. Interesting to hear what you discover...


----------



## Tunkejazz

textfeud said:


> Just got my new Nano IDSD and it's working great so far with the new firmware. Plug & Play like it should.
> 
> First impressions of the sound is pretty good. DAC is good and AMP leaves something to be desired but that's normal. Overall this isn't far behind the Modi/Vali stack maybe even as good which is very impressive for a portable DAC/AMP. Will combine the Little Dot I+ with the Nano IDSD as soon as I can get my hands on one. I think I will have a good setup with my Grado RS1i then
> 
> EDIT: Definitely a keeper. A very versatile product. Works great with my Macbook Air, with my iPhone and can even drive my Adam Artist 3.


 
  
  Hi, I have the nano iDSD, but if feels that it just manages to power my he400i. Regarding the amp section...did you ever compared how vali + nano idsd work, compared to the nano alone?


----------



## Textfeud

tunkejazz said:


> Hi, I have the nano iDSD, but if feels that it just manages to power my he400i. Regarding the amp section...did you ever compared how vali + nano idsd work, compared to the nano alone?


 
 No I haven't and I also only used it with the Grado RS1i and not with a planar. But I think the Vali would be beneficial. I added the Mad Ear and that made a difference.


----------



## Dixter

tunkejazz said:


> Hi, I have the nano iDSD, but if feels that it just manages to power my he400i. Regarding the amp section...did you ever compared how vali + nano idsd work, compared to the nano alone?


 

 If you decide to add a different amp to the nano... I can suggest the O2... it works very well with the nano and the form factor is pretty nice with two bands to hold it all together...


----------



## shutterbox

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The nano iDSD will automatically "reboot" and starts the recharging process from the USB power line.
> 
> Cheers.




Looks like mine has a charging problem.

On battery, while connected to PC via USB for playback, my nano will just stop working after battery's totally drained. PC will loose connection with the nano when this happens.

I have to power cycle the nano to start the charging process


----------



## PedroH

Listening now to the iFi iDSD via the Beyer T5p and sounds very very good. I would say amazing for a portable system.


----------



## diamondears

I find myself not listening anymore to my desktop gears with my nano, iPhone 6 and NAD HP50/Shure SE215/etc.


----------



## iFi audio

shutterbox said:


> Looks like mine has a charging problem.
> 
> On battery, while connected to PC via USB for playback, my nano will just stop working after battery's totally drained. PC will loose connection with the nano when this happens.
> 
> I have to power cycle the nano to start the charging process


 
  
 Could it be your PC turns off power on the USB Port when connection is lost? The nano cannot charge if there is no power on the port.
  
 Could you check and confirm the PC does not turn power off when connection is lost? If still stuck, open a support ticket and our guys will help. The other option is to try USB wall charger eg iPad charger and use USB cable to re-charge the nano iDsd. If this works fine, then you go back and check PC settings and vice versa.
  
 Support here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## shutterbox

ifi audio said:


> Could it be your PC turns off power on the USB Port when connection is lost? The nano cannot charge if there is no power on the port.
> 
> Could you check and confirm the PC does not turn power off when connection is lost? If still stuck, open a support ticket and our guys will help. The other option is to try USB wall charger eg iPad charger and use USB cable to re-charge the nano iDsd. If this works fine, then you go back and check PC settings and vice versa.
> 
> Support here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/




The connection is off because the battery completely drained.
By design I believe the nano should charge itself if battery is out, n all these will happen with no connection break with the music player.

FYI the charging of the flat out nano works fine until the time I posted the query.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Sorry! Sheesh.


----------



## PedroH

shutterbox said:


> The connection is off because the battery completely drained.
> By design I believe the nano should charge itself if battery is out, n all these will happen with no connection break with the music player.
> 
> FYI the charging of the flat out nano works fine until the time I posted the query.


 
  
 I'm experiencing something similar on the Micro iDSD connected to a MacBookPro. The USB charges the Micro (if I turn power off the blue led shows) but seems that if I'm listening it consumes more power than is getting from the USB until running out.
  
 Is this normal? Do you have to leave it charging when not in use or can you listen indefinitely as long as connected via USB?


----------



## ClieOS

pedroh said:


> I'm experiencing something similar on the Micro iDSD connected to a MacBookPro. The USB charges the Micro (if I turn power off the blue led shows) but seems that if I'm listening it consumes more power than is getting from the USB until running out.
> 
> Is this normal? Do you have to leave it charging when not in use or can you listen indefinitely as long as connected via USB?


 
  
 It is normal. That's mainly because micro iDSD is using more power than your MBP's USB port is capable of supplying (especially if you are in Turbo mode). You should leave it charging as much as you can even when not in use, or get yourself a USB hub with BC1.2 support, which will supply more power to micro iDSD than the USB port on your MBP.


----------



## diamondears

Is there any chance iFi would update the nano? My wish is just a bit more power. Maybe increase from 1.65Vrms to 2.5Vrms? That's it, nothing else. I'm afraid the SQ would change even a bit, which I wouldn't like, if other aspects are changed.


----------



## technobear

diamondears said:


> Is there any chance iFi would update the nano? My wish is just a bit more power. Maybe increase from 1.65Vrms to 2.5Vrms? That's it, nothing else. I'm afraid the SQ would change even a bit, which I wouldn't like, if other aspects are changed.




There is already a more powerful nano iDSD. It is called the micro iDSD


----------



## shabta

technobear said:


> There is already a more powerful nano iDSD. It is called the micro iDSD


 
 +1 
  
 Which Diamondears thinks sounds worse, although the HP50s while sounding great are not the most resolving headphones.


----------



## technobear

shabta said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > There is already a more powerful nano iDSD. It is called the micro iDSD
> ...




So let me see...

Thousands love the micro iDSD and think it comfortably betters the nano iDSD

and one person thinks the nano sounds better :rolleyes:


----------



## iFi audio

*Licking the Lollipop*  

  
*We *have Android 5 (Lollipop) tested using the Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet, the results are as follows:

 1) Sony Walkman - there are no longer settings for external DACs, the DAC (tested using iDSD nano with latest beta code). All audio is up-sampled to quad speed (176.4/192kHz), so never Bit-Perfect. Android Volume control sets DAC Volume.

 2) Spotify - plays audio also as Quad Speed upsampled (this may be Sony specific). Android Volume control sets DAC Volume.
   

  3) USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP), took two restarts before it could grab the DAC, after that works normally, bitperfect the Android Volume control does not change levels.
   

  So UAPP remains recommended for HD/HiRez and high quality playback. 

 For other audio player apps etc. the Android volume control should be set to maximum to avoid "loosing bits". 


  
We hope you found this useful.


----------



## waimac

Hi all,
  
 I am a newbie here and in the head-fi world... 
  
 I used to have a tradition CD-player >tube pre-amp>mono-amp> full stand speakers
 Since my wife giving birth to the twins.. now I am in head-fi world... ha ha..
  
 I just got a AKG 712 Pro and ordered the VorzAMP pure II + as AMP.
  
 Now seeking for a DAC for the headphone system.
  
 I have two iPods, one is 1st Gen iPod, and one is 4G iPod Photo (colour)
  
 I am really interested in the iFi nano..  
 My question is "if this combination is good?"
  
 Thinking of what source should I go for if playing DSD, then should I buy a new iPod Touch 64GB for DSD playing or keep to use the iPod (Photo) with Rockbox?
  
 Thanks


----------



## waimac

For got to say. I listen mostly classical, jazz, vocal and light Pop


----------



## diamondears

Have not heard your other gears, but you won't be disappointed with the iFi nano iDSD, even if you use it as a standalone DAC and amp. You'll be surprised how this small thing could turn your music's SQ into even greater heights. The DSD capability is just a bonus. For less than $200, to me it's a no-brainer once you get to hear it.


----------



## shabta

waimac said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am a newbie here and in the head-fi world...
> 
> ...


 
 You may find you won't need the amp anymore if you get the Nano. VorzaAmp is a better amp, but not sure how much difference it will make for the AKG. In any case the Nano is a fantastic choice if just for the DAC.


----------



## waimac

But do I need to "upgrade" to iPod Touch to play DSD files? Or just to install Rockbox in the iPod 4G can play DSD? Thanks.


----------



## diamondears

waimac said:


> But do I need to "upgrade" to iPod Touch to play DSD files? Or just to install Rockbox in the iPod 4G can play DSD? Thanks.


You just need the Onkyo HF Player HD version to play DSD natively. Requires iOS 6 or later.


----------



## waimac

So I need to buy a new iPod touch...thx. 



diamondears said:


> You just need the Onkyo HF Player HD version to play DSD natively. Requires iOS 6 or later.


----------



## waimac

Thx. Great information folr all of u guys. 

I would like to order a nano. I just got a AKG 712 Pro and ordered the VorzAMP pure II + as AMP is on the way.

My question is: I would like to know how should I turn the volume of the nano to make it just run as an DAC only. Or I turn the VorzAMP to mid or max. Then using the nano volume control to adjust volume? Any suggestions?

Currently. I've got an iPod 4G as source. But will buy an iPod touch soon.

So the system shall be :
iPod touch -> iDSD nano ( as DAC) -> VorzAMP (as AMP and volume control) -> AKG k712pro.

Thanks


----------



## shabta

waimac said:


> Thx. Great information folr all of u guys.
> 
> I would like to order a nano. I just got a AKG 712 Pro and ordered the VorzAMP pure II + as AMP is on the way.
> 
> ...


 
 Turn the nano all the way up. Then it is just a dac.


----------



## waimac

Nice. Thx shabta


----------



## jobyjoby

Hi all, I'm a newbie here (first post). I've been using my ifi nano idsd with my grado rs2e's for the past few weeks now and I really love it but every now and then (sometimes as often as once per song) the sound cuts out. Was wondering if any others have had similar issues with their ifi. I've tested the cans, cables, and files and have deduced that the issue has to be coming from the ifi. Cheers!


----------



## marcus1

As the nano and micro use the same dac, has anyone had a chance to compare the two (dacs) only by using an external amp? Would micro's internal iPurifier make it's dac the winner?

Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

marcus1 said:


> As the nano and micro use the same dac, has anyone had a chance to compare the two (dacs) only by using an external amp? Would micro's internal iPurifier make it's dac the winner?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 The DAC section are not entirely the same. While nano uses only one DAC chip. micro uses two, so the implementation is different. Also iPurifier doesn't really have that much of an impact on SQ unless the USB on your PC is particularly problematic.
  
 The difference between the two (line-out), to me, is how large the overall image is. Both are slightly on the warmish, richer side of the presentation, especially with you compared them to something like ESS Sabre DAC, but they are by no mean colored. I reckon micro sounds about 15~20% large in image, therefore everything sounds grander and better separated, which in turn makes everything more detail and of course, a larger, more relaxing soundstage. In contrast, nano is more focus and therefore sounds a little thicker, smoother and perhaps just a tiny bit more engaging. I won't say it is congested in anyway but it does sound more compressed when compared to micro.


----------



## marcus1

Thanks ClieOS

Reason I asked is my portable set-up is currently an external amp fed by an Ipod Classic. Most of my music files are flac and are on my Samsung note tablet so I wanted to know what dac would suit my system
Long story short, I bought the Nano today (before I read your reply) after auditioning both the dacs. I thought the micro's dac was the better (don't really know how to describe it ) but in the end didn't think it was worth triple the amount to get the micro so the nano it was.
For the price the nano is excellent value - the nano's dac is not far behind the micro and it's amp is none to shabby either!




clieos said:


> The DAC section are not entirely the same. While nano uses only one DAC chip. micro uses two, so the implementation is different. Also iPurifier doesn't really have that much of an impact on SQ unless the USB on your PC is particularly problematic.
> 
> The difference between the two (line-out), to me, is how large the overall image is. Both are slightly on the warmish, richer side of the presentation, especially with you compared them to something like ESS Sabre DAC, but they are by no mean colored. I reckon micro sounds about 15~20% large in image, therefore everything sounds grander and better separated, which in turn makes everything more detail and of course, a larger, more relaxing soundstage. In contrast, nano is more focus and therefore sounds a little thicker, smoother and perhaps just a tiny bit more engaging. I won't say it is congested in anyway but it does sound more compressed when compared to micro.


----------



## technobear

jobyjoby said:


> Hi all, I'm a newbie here (first post). I've been using my ifi nano idsd with my grado rs2e's for the past few weeks now and I really love it but every now and then (sometimes as often as once per song) the sound cuts out. Was wondering if any others have had similar issues with their ifi. I've tested the cans, cables, and files and have deduced that the issue has to be coming from the ifi. Cheers!




It's your source.

What is your source?


----------



## jobyjoby

technobear said:


> It's your source.
> 
> What is your source?


 

 Thanks for the reply, I'm listening to 32-bit AIFFs on iTunes off a MBP w/ retina display.


----------



## shabta

jobyjoby said:


> Thanks for the reply, I'm listening to 32-bit AIFFs on iTunes off a MBP w/ retina display.


 
 And are you doing anything else on the MBP when these dropouts occur?


----------



## jobyjoby

shabta said:


> And are you doing anything else on the MBP when these dropouts occur?


 

 I am not.


----------



## diamondears

jobyjoby said:


> Hi all, I'm a newbie here (first post). I've been using my ifi nano idsd with my grado rs2e's for the past few weeks now and I really love it but every now and then (sometimes as often as once per song) the sound cuts out. Was wondering if any others have had similar issues with their ifi. I've tested the cans, cables, and files and have deduced that the issue has to be coming from the ifi. Cheers!



I suspect it's the USB cable on the nano side getting touched/bumped/moved. Slight move on the cable and and mine loses connection, and so it has to "re-boot or reconnect". Use the rubber band so the cable won't move. 



marcus1 said:


> As the nano and micro use the same dac, has anyone had a chance to compare the two (dacs) only by using an external amp? Would micro's internal iPurifier make it's dac the winner?
> 
> Thanks.



I have both and I like micro's DAC more, but I like the nano more if both DAC and amp are used. Nano is richer, more full bodied to my ears, with details on higher frequencies just right (talking about dac+amp).


----------



## sebizbir

Hello all,
 Anyone thinks about Nano inputs?
 I miss optical (toslink) one.
 Is there any person who know how to add it to the device, and is it technically possible?
  
 Cheers
 Seb


----------



## shabta

jobyjoby said:


> I am not.


 
 So you aren't touching the computer or the Nano at all when the dropouts occur? Are you sure your files are 32 bit? Do you have the same problem when playing normal 16 bit files?


----------



## emusic13

Just wondering, what does the filter and minimum standard switch do? Thanks


----------



## Kane Williams

emusic13 said:


> Just wondering, what does the filter and minimum standard switch do? Thanks




It's the digital filter. It simply has two options. Chose whichever sounds best to you. Try to switch it for different tracks as the two types sound different enough to make one type more appropriate than the othe


----------



## technobear

emusic13 said:


> Just wondering, what does the filter and minimum standard switch do? Thanks






The nano doesn't do Bit-Perfect of course. You need a micro for that.


----------



## Kane Williams

technobear said:


> The nano doesn't do Bit-Perfect of course. You need a micro for that.




What does this mean exactly? I thought the filter was how higher frequencies and high frequency noise were filtered out? So what is bit perfect? No filtering?


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> I have both and I like micro's DAC more, but I like the nano more if both DAC and amp are used. Nano is richer, more full bodied to my ears, with details on higher frequencies just right (talking about dac+amp).


 
 So, many times on this thread you claimed that Nano was a better DAC. Now you say it is the amp of the Nano that is better. Surely this can't be the case with every headphone. There are a whole bunch of headphone that won't be properly driven by the relatively weak amp of the Nano, but the micro will have enough juice and voltage swing for those same headphones. It is at least theoretically possible that on certain headphones that the nano will sound better, you simply cannot say as a blanket statement, the Nano sounds better as DAC/AMP than the Micro.


----------



## diamondears

shabta said:


> So, many times on this thread you claimed that Nano was a better DAC. Now you say it is the amp of the Nano that is better. Surely this can't be the case with every headphone. There are a whole bunch of headphone that won't be properly driven by the relatively weak amp of the Nano, but the micro will have enough juice and voltage swing for those same headphones. It is at least theoretically possible that on certain headphones that the nano will sound better, you simply cannot say as a blanket statement, the Nano sounds better as DAC/AMP than the Micro.



Nope. Didn't say that. What I said was I like the sound coming out of the nano better compared to the micro. I explained to you my reasons way back.


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> Nope. Didn't say that. What I said was I like the sound coming out of the nano better compared to the micro. I explained to you my reasons way back.


 
  
 You are saying that the Nano as a DAC and AMP always sounds better? As I stated before, that is not possible as a blanket statement.


----------



## ClieOS

kane williams said:


> What does this mean exactly? I thought the filter was how higher frequencies and high frequency noise were filtered out? So what is bit perfect? No filtering?


 
  
 Part of my micro iDSD review:
  


> The Three PCM filters @ 16/44.1
> 
> 
> Another user selectable option on the micro iDSD that will affect SQ is the filter selection. Filter is needed because the DAC’s sampling process will produce high frequency noise above the audible range. Even though it is mainly on the inaudible range, its effect will still reach under 20kHz and therefore we need filter to cut them off. With PCM decoding, the filter switch changes between three different digital filters setting: Standard, Minimum Phase and Bit Perfect. Standard filter is also known as ‘fast roll-off’ sometime, which has a shaper cut–off frequency, offer a flatter FR curve and nicer measurement. But it is often also regarded as being harsher and grainier sounding. Minimum Phase is what known as ‘slow roll-off’ by some, and usually offer a smoother sound but comes with a slight -3dB roll off between 14kHz to 20kHz. It is probably one of the most common filter found on higher end DAC because it is regarded as the best compromise between measurement and human perception. Bit Perfect on the other hand is actually not a filter at all. It is more commonly known as Non-OverSampling, or NOS for short. As the name implies, it is where the DAC doesn’t oversample the signal and doesn’t use any digital filter. The resulted FR curve has a rather big -3dB roll-off going from upper midrange all the way to 20kHz. NOS is in itself too complex a topic for us to cover here - but the basic idea is not to oversample the signal as would be done on normal DAC. Instead, the sampling is carried out where the focus is to restore the musicality back to the signal rather than to achieve the highest accuracy on frequency response. The result is often being described as a sound that is more analog and natural, though doesn’t measure nearly as good as the other two filters and can sound slightly hissy with sensitive headphone due to the lack of filter. To put it short, you can think of the three filters as going from what measured best to what perceived best. With DSD decoding, the same filter switch change to three analog filter selection: Standard, Extended, and Extreme. Due to its 1 bit nature, DSD can’t employ any digital filter (which we will discuss further in the next section on native decoding). Therefore it can only use analog filter after the decoding. The three settings are mainly to determine where to set the cut-off point along the frequency response. Last but not least, DXD only gets one setting and it is Bit Perfect / NOS, therefore it doesn’t matter which position the switch is in. So, you might start to wonder which filter sounds best? Well, the whole point of having a filter selection is so that you can find out the answer for yourself. It isn’t about right or wrong but about your own preference. However, for the purpose of the review, I have used the Standard filter for most of the measurement as well as majority of the subjective listening. Of course, this doesn’t actually mean I prefer the Standard filter more.


----------



## diamondears

shabta said:


> You are saying that the Nano as a DAC and AMP always sounds better? As I stated before, that is not possible as a blanket statement.



I thought that's obvious. Of course, I'm saying that using similar player and similar HP or IEM that fits both nano and micro. In other words, I'd like to point out to you that the HE-6 and LCD-2.2 sounds better on the iFi micro iDSD. Sorry, I didn't think it needs to be pointed out.


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> I thought that's obvious. Of course, I'm saying that using similar player and similar HP or IEM that fits both nano and micro. In other words, I'd like to point out to you that the HE-6 and LCD-2.2 sounds better on the iFi micro iDSD. Sorry, I didn't think it needs to be pointed out.


 
 What you are saying flies in the face of what everyone else has said and my own limited experience. Maybe it is because I have always listened in "dirty USB power" power setups, but the micro sounded better to me. I now have a iPurifier and it makes the nano sound a little bit better...


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> Part of my micro iDSD review:



So bit-perfect on the iFi micro iDSD is removing the noise by merely rolling off the higher frequencies, correct? (instead of oversampling to exaggerate the noise and then remove the exaggerated noise thru filtering)


----------



## diamondears

shabta said:


> What you are saying flies in the face of what everyone else has said and my own limited experience. Maybe it is because I have always listened in "dirty USB power" power setups, but the micro sounded better to me. I now have a iPurifier and it makes the nano sound a little bit better...


And to add, I'm comparing the two using the same Minimum Phase filter. I have both until now. Maybe it's less burn in or less hours on the micro. Bought the nano earlier and use it more often. 

Maybe it's because I just use the nano on my iPhone 6 and 6+ and car audio. When I use the micro on the iPhone and car, I always liked the nano better. It's clearer, more separation, no "mix-up" or less "complex" of details. And I think the nano has a richer or fuller sound on the bass and mids. 

I've been thinking about this for a while, and my suspect is that the nano has a built in XBass boost similar to the optional/selectable XBass boost of the micro. Combo with the less complex (only 1 DAC chip, much less features, less power to deliver and thus less complex, etc.) and shorter/simpler signal path of the nano, it sounded better to my ears. 

Maybe the noise on noisy recordings and/or player (iPhone player?) is the culprit, I don't know. Given that iFi used only one DAC chip on the Retro 50, I wouldn't be surprised that a simpler design on the nano may have given my ears better appreciation.


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> So bit-perfect on the iFi micro iDSD is removing the noise by merely rolling off the higher frequencies, correct? (instead of oversampling to exaggerate the noise and then remove the exaggerated noise thru filtering)


 
  
 No, the roll-off is a natural consequence of the non-oversampling process, not a deliberated implementation to remove sampling noise.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> No, the roll-off is a natural consequence of the non-oversampling process, not a deliberated implementation to remove sampling noise.



Or maybe there's no roll off at all. I think that's the true frequency response of true natural live music. The linear FR aimed by over sampling process is unnatural, so it's like adding treble/glare on a supposedly downward sloping FR. The Harman curve is the truth, IMO.


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Or maybe there's no roll off at all. I think that's the true frequency response of true natural live music. The linear FR aimed by over sampling process is unnatural, so it's like adding treble/glare on a supposedly downward sloping FR. The Harman curve is the truth, IMO.


 
  
 Interesting theory except it is scientifically unsound. 
  
 Harman curve should only apply to headphone, or system as a whole. You can't apply Harmon curve to individual electronic components - if the DAC is Harmon curve compensated, then the amp is Harman curved compensated, then followed by a Harman curve tuned headphone, you will end up with a triple compensated (and highly colored) curve that doesn't in any way sound like Harman curve. Thus we should only apply Harman curve on headphone, and keep the rest of the system as ideally flat as possible. Do not forget the (digital) input itself is flat, and the output of bit perfect isn't (*that is, you can generate a flat 20-20k Hz digital signal and it will still roll-off at the analog output). That by itself is a form of coloration that doesn't come from the recording or the live music, whether you like the resulting sound or not.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> Interesting theory except it is scientifically unsound.
> 
> Harman curve should only apply to headphone, or system as a whole. You can't apply Harmon curve to individual electronic components - if the DAC is Harmon curve compensated, then the amp is Harman curved compensated, then followed by a Harman curve tuned headphone, you will end up with a triple compensated (and highly colored) curve that doesn't in any way sound like Harman curve. Thus we should only apply Harman curve on headphone, and keep the rest of the system as ideally flat as possible. Do not forget the (digital) input itself is flat, and the output of bit perfect isn't (*that is, you can generate a flat 20-20k Hz digital signal and it will still roll-off at the analog output). That by itself is a form of coloration that doesn't come from the recording or the live music, whether you like the resulting sound or not.



I see. Yes, you're correct.


----------



## Sound Eq

how does the ifi dsd nano comapre to ifi dsd micro dsd

i have the ifi dsd micro, i was wondering is it lower quality than the micro alot or about the same level


----------



## h1f1add1cted

If you use the minimum phase filter on both and you don't enable any analog unit (like 3D crossfeed or X-Bass from the micro iDSD) they sound similar great. I own both.With bit perfect filter on micro iDSD is slightly greater than nano iDSD with minimum phase filter to me. But in general the nano iDSD is one of the best buys in this price level for the SQ / price ratio.


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> how does the ifi dsd nano comapre to ifi dsd micro dsd
> 
> i have the ifi dsd micro, i was wondering is it lower quality than the micro alot or about the same level







h1f1add1cted said:


> If you use the minimum phase filter on both and you don't enable any analog unit (like 3D crossfeed or X-Bass from the micro iDSD) they sound similar great. I own both.With bit perfect filter on micro iDSD is slightly greater than nano iDSD with minimum phase filter to me. But in general the nano iDSD is one of the best buys in this price level for the SQ / price ratio.



I even like the nano a bit more using Min. Phase filter. Micro with Bit-Perfect is better though.


----------



## shabta

diamondears said:


> I even like the nano a bit more using Min. Phase filter. Micro with Bit-Perfect is better though.


 
 For some reason every time you post on this subject you say something different... I thought your current position was DAC + AMP = Nano better and DAC only=  Micro better. Now its Bit-Perfect Micro is best?


----------



## diamondears

shabta said:


> For some reason every time you post on this subject you say something different... I thought your current position was DAC + AMP = Nano better and DAC only=  Micro better. Now its Bit-Perfect Micro is best?



Check my posts again. I said nano is better to my ears using same Recording, same player, same Minimum Phase filter, as I think I should compare everything else equal, correct?

In other words, I now find Bit-Perfect filter better than the Minimum Phase filter, using clean or "audiophile" or un-harsh recordings. If you've been sniffing my ass for a long time already, you would know that my previous opinion is I like Minimum Phase filter more than Bit-Perfect (on PCM). Not now. I like Bit-Perfect more now IF I use said types of recordings. 

I find Bit-Perfect to reproduce more bass, the enveloping kind, the bass that surrounds the music, making it more "analogue-like". However, if the recording is harsh and recorded with loudness war syndrome, I hear the music become more harsh, and if recording is thin or lacks bass, I like Minimum Phase more.


----------



## SptTablo

One thing I noticed recently.
  
 In low volumes, I am talking around nine o' clock on volume nob, the volume don't gradually change.
  
 They change in sudden level which is weird. 
  
 Can anyone test this?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## SptTablo

spttablo said:


> One thing I noticed recently.
> 
> In low volumes, I am talking around nine o' clock on volume nob, the volume don't gradually change.
> 
> ...


 
 Self update.
  
 Another unit of Nano iDSD does do this. 
  
 I hope this does not happen on Micro iCAN as I ordered one.


----------



## iFi audio

spttablo said:


> Self update.
> 
> Another unit of Nano iDSD does do this.
> 
> I hope this does not happen on Micro iCAN as I ordered one.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 All iFi units - nano iDSD, micro iDSD and iTube and iCAN (nano+micro) do not use a digital volume control and use a stepped attenuator or analogue volume control.
  
 So if used at ~9 o clock, there is imbalance between channels.
  
 Ideally, run at 12 to 3 o clock.
  
 Digital volume controls truncate the bits and also do not keep DSD bit-perfect.


----------



## SptTablo

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> All iFi units - nano iDSD, micro iDSD and iTube and iCAN (nano+micro) do not use a digital volume control and use a stepped attenuator or analogue volume control.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes. 
  
 I am aware of your usage of analog volume control.
  
 I wasn't referring to unbalance between channels. 
  
 I am talking about rate of volume change.
  
 Past 9 o clock, the volume change is very constant except before 9 o clock, the volume change is very sudden. (The volume drops in sudden.)


----------



## ClieOS

spttablo said:


> Yes.
> 
> I am aware of your usage of analog volume control.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you concern is whether the volume control should be perfectly linear or not - and it isn't. Hardly any analog volume control is linear.
  
 This should be what the volume control looks like on nano iDSD, or at least it should be pretty close:
  

  
 As you can see, the rate of change is steeper on the lower range than the higher range.


----------



## SptTablo

clieos said:


> I think you concern is whether the volume control should be perfectly linear or not - and it isn't. Hardly any analog volume control is linear.
> 
> This should be what the volume control looks like on nano iDSD, or at least it should be pretty close:
> 
> ...


 
 Wow Thanks for the explanation.
  
 I am aware of the fact that analog volume control is not perfectly linear but on Nano iDSD it seemed to be too steep in the lower volume.
  
 The graph explains 
  
 I ordered Micro iCAN and I just hope it won't be this bad.


----------



## iFi audio

spttablo said:


> Wow Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> I am aware of the fact that analog volume control is not perfectly linear but on Nano iDSD it seemed to be too steep in the lower volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 A usable volume control range of 60dB (that is a 1:1000 Ratio) is commonly more than sufficient to achieve good control over the volume levels. To be witty, it covers the loudness range between extremely loud factory or rock concerts to something slightly above a quiet whisper. So it should be fine in pactice. Many traditional analogue potentimeters have even less usable adjustment range.
  
 If the maximum volume is (say) 105dB peak with an 85dB average sound level (this is quite loud) attenuating by 60dB means that  the sound level of the music would be around 25dB, or within the region of the noise of a quiet PC Fan or the background noise of a very quiet room.
  
 The problem is that many IEM's and other headphones these days seem to be in a loudness race, with some headphones approaching 120dB/mW output.
  
 If we take an example of a IEM from Brand X with Model Y we find that Model Y has 119dB/1mW efficiency and 36 Ohm Impedance. The iDSD nano outputs 1.7V with the volume control at maximum and with this IEM this equals 138dB (yes, this is totally insane)! By comparison a Chainsaw closeup is usually considered equal to 100dB, meaning this IEM with the iDSD nano volume control all the way up will be 100 times as loud as a chainsaw close up.
  
 Worse, if we turn the volume down by 60dB, we are left with around 78dB peak levels and if the program material is modern, heavily compressed music the actual average at the minimum possible voolume setting of the iDSD will be around 68dB, which is already quite loud.
  
 There is a simple solution (other than changing the headphones), namely adding an iEMatch attenuator in line with your headphone. They are available in 12dB and 24dB.
  
 In the case of the previous 138dB IEM, using a 24dB attenuator reduces the maximum (peak) SPL to a still loud but sensible 114dB, which with well recorded high dynamic range music (20dB crest factor) means an average music level of 94dB (quite loud) and for modern heavily compressed music a level of around 104dB, which is similar to the noise levels in the cabin at takeoff for some of the louder Passenger Jets (getting dangerous here if played long term at this level).
  
 Equally, with maximum attenuation of the volume control the lowest output would be around 44dB for heavily compressed music, which is pretty quiet, similar to a normally quiet office or living room. So locate the ideal attenuator, would be our recommendation.
  
Conclusion
 No audio component manufacturer can halt the gradual "loudness race to the top." Given the spectrum between IEMs and headphones, we can all only aim for somewhere in the middle. If a specific headphone or IEM needs to be dialled in, then we recommend an attenuator.


----------



## Marso

Where can I buy the attenuators in Germany? I use the nano wth I with my fidelio x2 and with my tablet it's almost to loud at 9/10 o'clock. 
some apps are really quite and have to turn up the volume to nearly 100% and the next song is way to loud..


----------



## iFi audio

marso said:


> Where can I buy the attenuators in Germany? I use the nano wth I with my fidelio x2 and with my tablet it's almost to loud at 9/10 o'clock.
> some apps are really quite and have to turn up the volume to nearly 100% and the next song is way to loud..


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We'll answer each one individually.
  
 - If an app is quiet, it is usually because the App has the volume turned down in the Android/iOS Sound settings. It must be maxed out to 100%.
  
 - Contact iFi dealers....or iFi: Germany, WOD. There is a wait.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Marso

The volume is always maxed out but spotify is still quieter than the other apps, maybe I should clear cache and appdata.
Ok I try to connect wod, thanks for the great and fast support.


----------



## SptTablo

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> A usable volume control range of 60dB (that is a 1:1000 Ratio) is commonly more than sufficient to achieve good control over the volume levels. To be witty, it covers the loudness range between extremely loud factory or rock concerts to something slightly above a quiet whisper. So it should be fine in pactice. Many traditional analogue potentimeters have even less usable adjustment range.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow.
  
 Very detailed explanation is always welcome.
  
 Thank you for the help!
  
 I was hearing about your news of attenuator and its name contest as well. 
  
 TBH, I really love companies that has a lot of interaction with their customers. 
  
 All of my concern regarding to rate of volume change will be solved as soon as I receive my iCAN. (Since I max the volume on Nano iDSD in order to make it line out.
  
 And I assume that even if same thing happens with iCAN, I would be able to control the gain via gain switch. 
  
 Thanks again ifi!


----------



## diamondears

spttablo said:


> Wow Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> I am aware of the fact that analog volume control is not perfectly linear but on Nano iDSD it seemed to be too steep in the lower volume.
> 
> ...



Why not the iFi micro iDSD? It has built-in "attenuators".


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> Why not the iFi micro iDSD? It has built-in "attenuators".


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct.
  
 This is the nano iDSD thread - hence the mention of the iFi attenuators.
  
 For the micro iDSD - this is irrelevant as the iEMatch means this is not needed.
  
 Similar situation for the Retro Stereo 50 because the 3.5mm input has been configured for IEMs whilst the 6.3mm input has been configured for headphones.


----------



## SptTablo

diamondears said:


> Why not the iFi micro iDSD? It has built-in "attenuators".


 
 Ah, I would have loved to get one but I am high school student soon to be graduated so can't really throw my money on those 'yet'. 
  
 It makes me sad but Nano iDSD is well worth over what I paid for.
  
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Correct.
> 
> ...


 
 YES. 
  
 I am indeed holding myself on upgrading my speaker set until I have enough for Retro Stereo. 
  
 They are gorgeous. ( Not to mention their sound and functions.)
  
 I really wished that they had ability to run sub woofer tho.


----------



## diamondears

spttablo said:


> Ah, I would have loved to get one but I am high school student soon to be graduated so can't really throw my money on those 'yet'.
> 
> It makes me sad but Nano iDSD is well worth over what I paid for.
> 
> ...



Buy a sub where you can run the speaker outs of the amp to the sub and run speaker out of the sub to speakers.


----------



## iFi audio

*For iCLUB members ONLY* - please open a new support ticket and ask your concierge for the v4.08 Beta firmware.

  
  
  
*BETA: v4.08 Firmware upgrade*   
*User Notes:*
This is the first unified version of firmware for nano iDSD, micro iDSD and Retro ONLY.
NOT to be uploaded to the micro iLink, micro iDAC, nor AMR DP-777!

  
*Improvements*
• Further improvement sfor DoP playback which exhibits clicks/pops during track changes
• Various optimisations regarding clock distribution.
• Various optimisations regarding muting circuitry.
• Improved compatibility with Mac OS X.
  
*Bug fixes*
• Fixed various small bugs.
  
  
 Note to others, once this has been confirmed as all a-okay, we will release this into the wild for everyone to enjoy.
  
 We thank you for your patience but as you can see, we do not issue firmware updates lightly because they need to undergo rigorous testing.


----------



## Paulus XII

Can anybody please confirm if the Ican Nano iDSD has X-bass?


----------



## technobear

No XBASS there.



Nor there.



Hmmm. None there either.



None again.

I am forced to conclude that the nano iDSD doesn't have XBASS


----------



## Paulus XII




----------



## h1f1add1cted

paulus xii said:


> Can anybody please confirm if the Ican Nano iDSD has X-bass?


 

 You mixed up two devices.
  
 nano iCAN = amp only with X-Bass and 3D
 nano iDSD = dac/amp no X-Bass and 3D
  
 The micro iDSD is like both has all in one and much more.


----------



## iFi audio

spttablo said:


> Wow.
> 
> Very detailed explanation is always welcome.
> 
> ...


 
  
 In your situation however the best you can set the iCAN micro would be unity gain, meaning no gain and the usable volume control range may be as problematic as with iDSD nano alone.
  
 The problem is that your Headphones/IEM's may be too sensitive.


----------



## iFi audio

spttablo said:


> Ah, I would have loved to get one but I am high school student soon to be graduated so can't really throw my money on those 'yet'.
> 
> It makes me sad but Nano iDSD is well worth over what I paid for.
> 
> ...


 
  
 We have found that the only way to make sure subwoofers integrate well with main speakers is to use a direct speaker feed. Line level subwoofer feeds simply do not seem to work well in practice, with main speakers and subwoofer playing different tunes.
  
 Please add a high quality subwoofer with speaker level inputs. Our Chief Designer, Mr. Loesch uses a Retro system at home, with a custom Subwoofer (10" Dynaudio Driver + generic 150W Plate Amp) for a massively impressive sounding overall system.
  
 Check out his system here: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10633373_981064788588220_6848022367353813361_o.jpg
  
 Thanks,


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> Check out his system here: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10633373_981064788588220_6848022367353813361_o.jpg
> 
> Thanks,




...because embedding the photo in the post is sooo hard...


----------



## jsamp05

ifi audio said:


> *For iCLUB members ONLY* - please open a new support ticket and ask your concierge for the v4.08 Beta firmware.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is there any news or feedback on the firmware update?  When might it be available for use?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

jsamp05 said:


> Is there any news or feedback on the firmware update?  When might it be available for use?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We are awaiting feedback from one or two iCLUB members.
  
 They have asked that we wait - some are Linux and some are Mac OS X users so represent a good cross-spectrum.
  
 We are also continuing internal tests ourselves.
  
 Please rest assured that like with our previous firmware releases, they only go out when they are "spot on."
  
 Cheers.


----------



## hennezzy

anyone compared the nano idsd with oppo ha2?


----------



## diamondears

Anyone heard the Shure SE846 with the iFi nano iDSD?


----------



## iFi audio

iFi XMOS Firmware v4.10 is a go  






After having passed extensive testing, the iFi XMOS firmware version 4.10 is ready for public download.

This latest firmware v4.10 is unified (read: works on the following machines):

micro iDAC2
 RETRO Stereo 50
 micro iDSD
 nano iDSD

  

*XMOS Firmware v4.10 Improvements*

• Further enhancement/improvement of DoP playback which due to the nature of DSD playback on DoP, exhibits clicks/pops during track changes. The DoP click/pop is now negligible.

• Optimisation of the ‘Star-Clocking’ technology inside the XMOS.

• Better XMOS (8 Cores) load distribution.

• Various optimisations regarding muting.

• Improved compatibility with Mac OS for smoother operation.

• Unified firmware across nano iDSD, micro iDAC2, micro iDSD, RETRO Stereo 50

*Bug fixes*

• Fixed various minor bugs.



iFi XMOS Firmware version 4.10 is NOT suitable for: iDAC, iLINK, AMR DP-777. So please do NOT FLASH these machines with v4.10.

Non-iFi customers should NOT download this firmware for other non-iFI XMOS devices. This firmware is proprietary XMOS firmware and is for iFi-specified products only. You risk damage to your machine if you attempt to flash your non-iFi XMOS dac with this firmware.


 Link for the firmware is contained here: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idac2-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## syedhuz

I o


bretemm said:


> Well I have the klipsch s3 right now and I'm looking for great or better ear buds but, im not too sure what would be a great quality ear bud (in-ear)? I looked at the Shure 846 but that's kinda allot right now, so what would you suggest? Thanks! And I mainly listen to classic rock and indie rock
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I previously owned Klipsch S4 & then moved to Sennheiser IE 80 . That will be a definite step up for you. TC


----------



## Maxpain

Hello there everyone! I am thinking about buying an idsd nano to replace my auzentech x-meridian 2.G and use it with a pair of sennheiser hd 598. Do you think that the idsd nano would have enough power to drive the 50ohm senn's? And how would it be compared to the auzentech AK4396VF dac? I think it will be a good upgrade,any input and help will be much appreciated!


----------



## iFi audio

Flavours of Firmware 5.0 for DSD256 *Vanilla, Strawberry or Choc Chip?*
  
  

  
*The DSD DoP Revolution – iFi Firmware v5.0 ushers in a new era*
 At iFi, when we say we develop our software in-house, we _really _mean it_._ This time, with Firmware version 5.0 (and its sub-versions) we have gone above and beyond because:
  
 1) Firmware v5.0 ‘Vanilla’ optimises DSD via DoP to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.
  
 2) Special sub-version firmware v5.0A ‘Strawberry’ that enables DSD256 via DoP (on nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 ONLY). Supports DSD256 on all major computer platforms including Smartphones and Streamers as well as computing platforms like Windows, OSX and Linux.
  
 3) Additional Sub-version firmware 5.0B ‘Choc Chip’ (for micro iDSD only) to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices. Thus prevents the micro iDSD from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the micro iDSD’s entering sleep mode.
  
 For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
  
 Happy Easter! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  
*1Background. The DSD DoP Evolution*
DoP DSD is known for inherently creating noise when switching between PCM and DSD-DoP tracks and back. This problem has been addressed at the source by _some_ but not all playback software - hence, much available software when playing DSD, struggles. So we at iFi have taken it upon ourselves to think ‘outside of the (PC) box’ to resolve this _upstream_ issue at the _downstream_ firmware level for all our DSD capable devices. In a process that took over a year, we have resolved the many areas where the differences between DSD-DoP and PCM make switching an annoyance.
  
Additionally, DoP is often cited as offering a lower sound quality. By adjusting core code and the clocking system in the firmware, this point is now moot – as we eliminated the hit on processor utilisation by DoP vs. native DSD playback. So choose native DSD or DoP-DSD with the confidence that either will deliver the same great DSD sound quality and user experience. Just like DSD and PCM, we like one as much as the other.


----------



## YashN

Very happy with this release, especially now that I can listen to DSD256 through DoP on the Mac, and that even the firmware upgrade can be done on the Mac itself!
  
 Well done, iFi


----------



## iFi audio

yashn said:


> Very happy with this release, especially now that I can listen to DSD256 through DoP on the Mac, and that even the firmware upgrade can be done on the Mac itself!
> 
> Well done, iFi


 
  
 Another person who found the Easter Egg.


----------



## Maxpain

After some serious searching I have decided that I will purchase either the idsd micro or the nano for my sennheiser hd 598. Because of their difference on the price I am in  dillema on what product of the dsd series will be the best option. I am thinking to add a tube amp on the chain sometime in the near feature so..judging as a dac only...how much superior is the micro against the nano? I know that the micro supports more sample rates and has more tweaks and choices but as a dac only...would I benefit much more against the nano if i am going to only use it as a dac and not an amplifier?


----------



## rickyleelee

Only you can decide for your self. Let no one else tell you. They got dealers around the world so unless you are in remote place you should audition with your computer and your music. take control and enjoy!


----------



## Maxpain

Thank you for your answer! There is a dealer and I can listen to them both in a showroom but I can't take them home for extensive audiotioning. My experience tells me that what you hear on the showroom its never the same on your home equipment because of the high end gear that they have going with the auditioned item. I am going to listen to them both buti I allready know,the micro is going to sound better of course.
  
 That is why I am asking opinions of people that have long and extened experience of them both.
  
 I have looked around and in the ifi's website they don't specify if those two models shares the shame dac section and differ only in amplification? Are you aware of something like this?


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> I have looked around and in the ifi's website they don't specify if those two models shares the shame dac section and differ only in amplification? Are you aware of something like this?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-free-ice-cream-page-34#post_11321712
  
 This is a summary of the current iFi family of digital-to-analogue converters.
  
 In descending order, think of them as BMW 5 series, 3 series and 1 series.
  

*Model**Chipset*​*no of DACs*​ *Native*​ *DSD*​ *Native PCM*​*Filters*​*Zerojitter Lite*​*SPDIF*​*iPurifer Lite*​*Battery*​*Headphone
 Amplfiier*​*XBass®*​*3D Holographic®*​  ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​micro iDSDBurr-Brown (_True Native_)​2​Up to Octa-DSD512​Up to 768kHz​Bit-Perfect/
 Min Phase/
 Standard​Yes​In/Out​Yes​Yes​Up to 4,000mW​Yes​For Headphones
 and Speakers​  ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​micro iDAC2Burr-Brown (_True Native_)​1​Up to Quad-DSD256​Up to 384kHz​Bit-Perfect/
 Min Phase/
 Standard​Yes​Out​No​No​350mW​No​No​  ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​nano iDSDBurr-Brown (True Native)​1​Up to Quad-DSD256​Up to 384kHz​Min Phase/
 Standard​Yes​Out​No​Yes​150mW​No​No​


----------



## Maxpain

Oh thats very nice and informative chart! Thank you very much for this! Is there a link with the complete chart? because it is cut in the spdif and I can't see the differences of the other specs! Again thank you so much for your fast and informative response


----------



## YashN

ifi audio said:


> Another person who found the Easter Egg.


 
  
 Yup yup!


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> Oh thats very nice and informative chart! Thank you very much for this! Is there a link with the complete chart? because it is cut in the spdif and I can't see the differences of the other specs! Again thank you so much for your fast and informative response


 

 HI
  
 The chart is as per normal!


----------



## iFi audio

*iFi will rock your Mac world* *Double-click for DSD256 DoP on OS X*
  

  
  
*The DSD DoP Revolution – and updater now on OS X*
  
 A few days ago, we launched the special Firmware version 5.0 (and the sub-versions). We incorporated an ‘Easter Egg;’ we have coded three separate iFi dmg files for updating the 3 ‘flavours’ of firmware on OS X.
  
 1) Firmware v5.0 optimises DSD via DoP was launched a few days ago to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.
  
 2) Special sub-version firmware v5.0A that enables DSD256 via DoP (on iDSD nano and iDAC2 micro). Supports DSD256 on all major computer platforms including Smartphones and Streamers as well as computing platforms like Windows, OSX and Linux. Further, there is lso sub-version 5.0B is for micro iDSD only to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices[1].
  
 3) iFi Firmware update on for MAC which introduces the much requested option to update the specific firmware not only via Windows PC but also using Mac OSX. Making iFi one of only a handful of companies to develop a proprietary Mac OS X firmware update application.
    [1] Thus prevents the iDSD micro from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the iDSD micro entering sleep mode.
  


  
  
 Not everyone spotted the Easter Egg which was the dmg files.
  

  
 So if you are a MAC OS X user (_User note: Minimum requirement is: 10.9 or Mavericks_ - so quite a recent version of OS X).
  
MACFirmwareupdatetov5.0.pdf 119k .pdf file 
  
  
*Note:*
 The Firmware is 'built-into' the dmg file. So, one must select the correct 'flavour' of firmware dmg file to upgrade.
  
 Unlike Windows where one does a 'browse.'
  
 If youare a MAC person, no need to source a Windows PC.
  
 We hope you like it as it was a little bit of work (heck, otherwise there would be loads of dmg files out there.)


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> maxpain said:
> 
> 
> > Oh thats very nice and informative chart! Thank you very much for this! Is there a link with the complete chart? because it is cut in the spdif and I can't see the differences of the other specs! Again thank you so much for your fast and informative response
> ...




He's probably trying to view it on a tablet or phone or something.

Here it is:


----------



## Maxpain

I was trying to view it from my phone,I can see the whole chart now...thank you both for your answers and help!


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> I was trying to view it from my phone,I can see the whole chart now...thank you both for your answers and help!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Should have gone to Spec Savers (English joke).


----------



## Maxpain

Hello! I have purchased the micro idsd at least! I am very excited and happy about this device and I can't wait for the 24 hours first charging to end!  I am a little bit confused about the charging otpions though and I could use some help with this.
  
 I know that when I power the devide before connecting it to the computer then it runs on battery mode instead of getting the power from the usb bus. Now because I want to use this mostly as a desktop amp/dac,I would like to know if the amp and the dac section allways run from the battery (battery power has its bennefits) when using battery mode? What I want is to have it allways running from battery mode and charging from my usb all the time.
  
 Is this going to harm the battery's life? Is there an optimum way to use the battery mode for a desktop use?
  
 When in usb power mode does it complete bypassed the batter and feeding the amp/dac directly from the usb bus? Is this preffered for better batter life?
  
 And at last I would like to know if there is a problem that my computer has usb 2.0 ports and the idsd cable is usb 3.0.
  
 Thanks for your help in advance! Cheers!


----------



## Maxpain

Bumping it


----------



## technobear

maxpain said:


> Hello! I have purchased the micro idsd at least!




This is the nano iDSD thread.

Try here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments


----------



## skanet

Hi everyone this is first for me posted and I not good in English please accept my apologize.
  
 This is time to choose between Micro iDAC and Nano iDSD. I want to config to my HiFi system only and almost is PCM material that I have. what model shall match to me? thank you.


----------



## SptTablo

skanet said:


> Hi everyone this is first for me posted and I not good in English please accept my apologize.
> 
> This is time to choose between Micro iDAC and Nano iDSD. I want to config to my HiFi system only and almost is PCM material that I have. what model shall match to me? thank you.




If I were you, I would go for Nano iDSD. I would rather have the option to be able to play DSD files for the future. 
And also, iDAC kinda lacks the connectivity.


----------



## skanet

spttablo said:


> If I were you, I would go for Nano iDSD. I would rather have the option to be able to play DSD files for the future.
> And also, iDAC kinda lacks the connectivity.



Thanks, if I don't play DSD what sound quality better than?


----------



## technobear

Having heard both, I would choose the nano.


----------



## skanet

technobear said:


> Having heard both, I would choose the nano.




Ok thank you very much


----------



## technobear

skanet said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Having heard both, I would choose the nano.
> ...




I am assuming that you meant 'iDAC' and not 'iDAC2'.

If you meant nano iDSD vs. micro iDAC2 then I would choose micro iDAC2.


----------



## skanet

technobear said:


> I am assuming that you meant 'iDAC' and not 'iDAC2'.
> 
> If you meant nano iDSD vs. micro iDAC2 then I would choose micro iDAC2.




I mean iDAC1 because iDAC2 not available in Thailand


----------



## technobear

skanet said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I am assuming that you meant 'iDAC' and not 'iDAC2'.
> ...




I would wait for iDAC2. It will surely be available soon.


----------



## skanet

technobear said:


> I would wait for iDAC2. It will surely be available soon.



I have talked to authorize distributer in Thailand and they said price close to Micro iDSD and they will no order iDAC2


----------



## skanet

I heard that nano iDSD had lineout issue due to 3.5mm phone acts as switch to cut off lineout signal when plugged 3.5mm male. Anyone got this issue? and how to fix it?


----------



## skanet

A





skanet said:


> I heard that nano iDSD had lineout issue due to 3.5mm phone acts as switch to cut off lineout signal when plugged 3.5mm male. Anyone got this issue? and how to fix it?




And sometimes sound drop and broken. When insert 3.5mm male twice a time this issue come back as normal. And this issue happen again for twice a day.


----------



## technobear

skanet said:


> A
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You said you only want to use this in your hifi system.

Will you use headphones?

Does your hifi system have a headphone socket?


----------



## skanet

technobear said:


> You said you only want to use this in your hifi system.
> 
> Will you use headphones?
> 
> Does your hifi system have a headphone socket?




Yes, I only use in my HiFi system and connected my B&W P7 on NAD 356BBE'S Phone out.


----------



## technobear

skanet said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > You said you only want to use this in your hifi system.
> ...




Then any problem that might arise with the headphone socket will not trouble you because you will not be using it.


----------



## skanet

technobear said:


> Then any problem that might arise with the headphone socket will not trouble you because you will not be using it.




Inside phone socket of Nano have switch function to cut lineout signal when you insert 3.5mm male and reconnect lineout when you remove 3.5mm male. The switch mechanism sometimes lack or poor contact them impact to lineout sound quality.


----------



## technobear

skanet said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Then any problem that might arise with the headphone socket will not trouble you because you will not be using it.
> ...




Yes... but if you do not use that socket then there will be no problem with the switch.


----------



## salla45

Hi.
  
 Just ordered a Nano IDSD, should be here Monday. My first foray into the IFI waters!
  
 I have a few questions regarding the interfacing to a Samsung Galaxy S5 running Android 5.0
  
 I have been reading I need USB Audio Player Pro, to be able to use the S5 as a transport and would like to know if it's possible to use the Tidal, or Google Play or other streaming services via the IDSD.
  
 I read somewhere that Android limits the output to 48khz frequency by default? Has this been overcome (or maybe I misunderstood altogether  )
  
 Is it possible to play DSF/DFF/ISO's somehow via the phone?
  
 Finally, it's not my #1 choice to use my phone as a transport, so longer term, is there a DAP (or even DAP-Transport) available with USB out for interfacing with the Nano? I have a Fiio X3ii but sadly it's digital out is coaxial via the lineout (is there an adapter for this, he enquired hopefully  )
  
 All assistance greatly appreciated!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

salla45 said:


> Hi.
> 
> Just ordered a Nano IDSD, should be here Monday. My first foray into the IFI waters!
> 
> ...


 

   Bump
  
 UAPP goes around ALSA _Advanced Linux Sound Architecture _and will pass off a 24/196 file and play it as 24/192 if the external dac supports that. ALSA and audiofinger are out of the picture so no need to be concerned. 
  
  
 I am also interested in using this with my Note 4 and I just ordered it
  
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/AINEX-%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8D%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9-USB%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF-A%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-B%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-ADV-115/dp/B00H9UHRT6/ref=pd_cp_147_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RAMF04ZJA0GD11ZHXXK
  
  
 and
  
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/iBUFFALO-microB-%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-BSMPC11C01BK/dp/B005WNBLN0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1443844499&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+a+to+b
  
  

  

  
  
 Am I wrong?? Looks legit....


----------



## salla45

hawaiibadboy said:


> Bump
> 
> UAPP goes around ALSA _Advanced Linux Sound Architecture _and will pass off a 24/196 file and play it as 24/192 if the external dac supports that. ALSA and audiofinger are out of the picture so no need to be concerned.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm pretty sure the Nano ships with the 1st item already, see below blue cable (pic obtained from this site http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=955) :
  

  
 And you need a OTG cable for sure (which I have already), but I am not sure your item 2 is an OTG (on-the-go) cable. It has a different pin/wiring config to standard coverter cable.
  
 With the blue cable and the OTG cable you should have no problems linking the Nano to your Note 4, but the problem for me is the software; I'm reading patchy info ref the possibility to use anything other than the USB Audio Pro Player. Which looks to be OK for internally stored files but I'd really like to work via TIDAL or Google Play Music (even though lossless, I've uploaded some 16k files to it, would be nice to be able to access them without switching apps and/or hardware)
  
 Thanks alot for this:
  
 "UAPP goes around ALSA _Advanced Linux Sound Architecture _and will pass off a 24/196 file and play it as 24/192 if the external dac supports that. ALSA and audiofinger are out of the picture so no need to be concerned." 
  
 I am heartened by this  - I guess it won't play native DSD  ?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

salla45 said:


> I'm pretty sure the Nano ships with the 1st item already, see below blue cable (pic obtained from this site http://www.limahuli.net/anythingbutmp3/?p=955) :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That blue one is waaay too long as this goes on my Note 4 and the 2nd one says compliant with Android 3.1 and above
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hope they are not ********ting me?? Also i messed up the red part but it plays back what you put in.


----------



## salla45

hawaiibadboy said:


> That blue one is waaay too long as this goes on my Note 4 and the 2nd one says compliant with Android 3.1 and above
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 aha, yeah , as a portable solution, i can understand your need to get a shorter cable 
  
 I just thought you didn't have any solution in mind when you wrote originally.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I've used in the past different cable and adaptor combo's with my nano iDSD:
  

  
 A regular USB OTG cable + USB A to b adatpor
  

  
 Or some (ugly) DIY cables from me: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5565#post_10980472


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

h1f1add1cted said:


> I've used in the past different cable and adaptor combo's with my nano iDSD:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Carry that around in Iraq or Israel and you might get shot on the spot.


----------



## salla45

hawaiibadboy said:


> Carry that around in Iraq or Israel and you might get shot on the spot.


 
 Hah! I was even wondering about that when I flew to the UK and back recently, if my X3ii + E12 combo would cause them to pause at the scan


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

salla45 said:


> Hah! I was even wondering about that when I flew to the UK and back recently, if my X3ii + E12 combo would cause them to pause at the scan


 

  
 I went to Iwakuni marine air station check in like this and was looked at real hard and it wasn't cuz i had beats. This rig just makes folks very uncomfortable.


----------



## salla45

Received the Nano today._* Seriously impressive. *_Over the Fiio X3ii there's a marked increase in the following:
  
 Layering
 Detail
 Clarity
 Dynamics
  
 Just generally getting a much more "alive" sound.  Not difficult to hear the differences. Just "bam!" 
  
 No stridency nor harshness. Smooth, natural. The ebb and swell of classical passages is just incredible. Listening to a DSD version of Gergiev/Tchaikovsky's 6th Symph. Incredible.
  
 Wow.
  
 Oh... and it works out of the box (installed USB Audio Player Pro) and Google Play Music works fine too! Didn't need to upgrade the firmware 
  
 For 220 chf, it's a complete no brainer. 1st Class.
  
 How much better does it get. How many more revelations are there in this game ?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

salla45 said:


> Received the Nano today._* Seriously impressive. *_Over the Fiio X3ii there's a marked increase in the following:
> 
> Layering
> Detail
> ...


 
  
  

  
 I am seriously blown the **** away.
  
  

  
  
 I have not been so impressed in my head fi life. The reviews were o.k. not special...price is crazy reasonable and yet i am blown the **** away...BLOWN the **** AWAY!


----------



## henearkrxe

I have been having issues connecting the iFi Nano iDSD to my ipad since last week. The error message "Accessory uses too much power" keeps popping up although I made sure to turn on the iFi before connecting it to the ipad using the Apple lightning to Camera adapter. Have anyone experienced similar issues? I am not sure whether this is due to ios 9 update or issues with the DAC itself. Any help or suggestions on who to contact at iFi would be appreciated.


----------



## iFi audio

henearkrxe said:


> I have been having issues connecting the iFi Nano iDSD to my ipad since last week. The error message "Accessory uses too much power" keeps popping up although I made sure to turn on the iFi before connecting it to the ipad using the Apple lightning to Camera adapter. Have anyone experienced similar issues? I am not sure whether this is due to ios 9 update or issues with the DAC itself. Any help or suggestions on who to contact at iFi would be appreciated.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We have tested iPhone 6 with USB>LIghtning connector > iFi Blue USB cable > Nano iDSD. 
 No error messages pop up.  We are running the very latest iOS9.0.2.
  
 If everything worked fine before ie: you did not get the "Accessory draws too much power" message before upgrading to iOS9, then we recommend that you upgrade to 9.0.2 as it seems they fixed some bugs along the way one of which may be the one you encountered.
  
 At the moment, we are migrating servers - usually the Support Ticket System is the best way to get hold of our techies.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## salla45

hawaiibadboy said:


> I am seriously blown the **** away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 I reckon they spiked our coffees just before delivery 
  




  
 PS... Would be really pleased to hear how the cable+adapter thing you order from Japan turns out... Im fiddling with alot of cabling


----------



## henearkrxe

Thank you for your reply. My iPad Air2 is running the latest 9.0.2. Could the iFi not switching into the battery mode as it should have or the battery is dead (unlikely since I only got the DAC a few months ago and charged the battery only a few times)? Is there anyway that I can test the status of the battery on the iFi myself?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

salla45 said:


> I reckon they spiked our coffees just before delivery
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.yodobashi.com/ainex-%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8D%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9-USB-136-USB%E3%83%9B%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%82%B1%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%E3%83%AB-B-Micro-B/pd/100000001002321325/
  
 Ainex usb-136
  
 Working like a charm but I will get the
  

  http://www.amazon.co.jp/AINEX-%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8D%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9-USB%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF-A%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-B%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-ADV-115/dp/B00H9UHRT6/ref=pd_cp_147_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RAMF04ZJA0GD11ZHXXK


  
 and

http://www.amazon.co.jp/iBUFFALO-microB-%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-BSMPC11C01BK/dp/B005WNBLN0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1443844499&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+a+to+b




  
 to make it shorter.
  
 the usb 136 by Ainex is working right now.


----------



## technobear

henearkrxe said:


> Thank you for your reply. My iPad Air2 is running the latest 9.0.2. Could the iFi not switching into the battery mode as it should have or the battery is dead (unlikely since I only got the DAC a few months ago and charged the battery only a few times)? Is there anyway that I can test the status of the battery on the iFi myself?




You need to charge the battery regularly if using battery mode! It will last about 10 hours on a charge.


----------



## henearkrxe

technobear said:


> You need to charge the battery regularly if using battery mode! It will last about 10 hours on a charge.


 
  Thanks for your reply. I recharged the battery last night but still got the same error message. It is hopeless at this moment...


----------



## henearkrxe

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have tested iPhone 6 with USB>LIghtning connector > iFi Blue USB cable > Nano iDSD.
> No error messages pop up.  We are running the very latest iOS9.0.2.
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 I borrowed my friend's ipad running ios8 to connect with Nano iDSD, still get the same error message. The problem started last week while I was using the DAC with my ipad when the sound output suddenly switched from iDSD to ipad speaker with the error message popping up on the screen. I thought it was a low battery issue then but the problem persists even after I recharged the battery.
  
 Could it be for some reason that my Nano iDSD failed to switch to Battery Mode when it should (I did follow the right turn on sequence)? Shall I perform a firmware update? Is there any test I can do on the battery status?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

h1f1add1cted said:


> I've used in the past different cable and adaptor combo's with my nano iDSD:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 How are you connecting the 2 units (ifi units) I'd like to have that stack. The dsd is fine for on the go but more power from that stack


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Bliss!!


----------



## henearkrxe

henearkrxe said:


> Hi,
> 
> I borrowed my friend's ipad running ios8 to connect with Nano iDSD, still get the same error message. The problem started last week while I was using the DAC with my ipad when the sound output suddenly switched from iDSD to ipad speaker with the error message popping up on the screen. I thought it was a low battery issue then but the problem persists even after I recharged the battery.
> 
> ...


 
 It turns out the lightning to USB camera cable was dead. I just got a replacement as the cable is still under warranty. Thanks everyone who helped!


----------



## ClieOS

Just to let you guy know that searching eBay for 'OTG Printer' will give you some pretty cheap cable that work just fine with nano iDSD.
  
This one is less than $2:
  





 
 Right angled micro USB version is typically more expensive, but should still under $5 with free shipping.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

hawaiibadboy said:


> How are you connecting the 2 units (ifi units) I'd like to have that stack. The dsd is fine for on the go but more power from that stack


 

 Simple with an mini to mini interconnect cable.
  
 I use in this setup the iBasso CB-06 cable: http://www.ibasso.com/products-detail.php?id=95 but you can use any other mini to mini cable, like the FiiO L8 cable or others.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

h1f1add1cted said:


> Simple with an mini to mini interconnect cable.
> 
> I use in this setup the iBasso CB-06 cable: http://www.ibasso.com/products-detail.php?id=95 but you can use any other mini to mini cable, like the FiiO L8 cable or others.


 
  How are you using the iCAN and the iDSD volumes? Full iDSD and then start from zero on amp? How are you working that?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

hawaiibadboy said:


> How are you using the iCAN and the iDSD volumes? Full iDSD and then start from zero on amp? How are you working that?


 

 Exactly, turn the volume on iDSD on 100% with this you get the amp section from iDSD only as buffer for best option for a "line-out" to stack with an external amp like the iCAN and adjust volume only with iCAN.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

h1f1add1cted said:


> Exactly, turn the volume on iDSD on 100% with this you get the amp section from iDSD only as buffer for best option for a "line-out" to stack with an external amp like the iCAN and adjust volume only with iCAN.


 

 Thanks. There are 2 gain switches on the iCAN..


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Yes, keep the smaller gain which is enabled by default, this is enough for 98% of all headphones you can own. The real high gain you need for headphones like Hifiman HE-6 or Abyss AB-1266, but for all others no problem to use the smaller gain.


----------



## gto88

Bravo! to iFi for the new firmware and driver.
 I feel like I have a new dac after updated it.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy




----------



## shabta

Anyone have any experience upgrading to the August firmware update?


----------



## ClieOS

shabta said:


> Anyone have any experience upgrading to the August firmware update?


 

 Sure, I always update my iDSD to the latest firmware


----------



## shabta

clieos said:


> Sure, I always update my iDSD to the latest firmware


 
 Thanks! I guess that means all is well?


----------



## ClieOS

shabta said:


> Thanks! I guess that means all is well?


 
  
 No problem so far, and it has been quite a few months now.


----------



## shabta

Good to know! I am updating now...


----------



## Galad

Early user of iDSD nano I needed a new firmware for USB3 on Mac. iFi rapidly proposed to test the 4.00 version that addressed that problem. I now update every version, last one activiting DSD256 on DoP. No issue, it's fast and safe.


----------



## craoul

Between ifi nano idsd and xonar stx II, what do you recommend? Purely on Sq. I know that the stx is a sound card.


----------



## Maxpain

Ifi nano with eyes closed...it offers so much more than a pci soundcard sound card...


----------



## craoul

or should i go for oppo ha-2?


----------



## salla45

craoul said:


> or should i go for oppo ha-2?


 
 I just got the Chord Mojo. Maybe a better better even.
  
 Stunning sound. There are 2 main attributes, well, 4 maybe? Haha.
  
 1) Purity of sound
 2) 3d sound stage
 3) A very structured, organised sound which unravels dense music. You can relisten old albums and just be shocked!
 4) Class A amp makes it really unfatiguing and addictive.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

craoul said:


> Between ifi nano idsd and xonar stx II, what do you recommend? Purely on Sq. I know that the stx is a sound card.


 

 Ifi nano.


----------



## Thazzz

Do you think That the nano iDSD it's a good dac With the micro iCAN hp and the 400i?
 I do not know if there will be any improvement compared to fiio e10k...


----------



## bavinck

craoul said:


> or should i go for oppo ha-2?




Also super interested to read comparisons between the nano and ha2. Anyone?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

bavinck said:


> Also super interested to read comparisons between the nano and ha2. Anyone?


 

 ha 2 has more power but the nano is more detailed and very wide and spacious.


----------



## bavinck

hawaiibadboy said:


> ha 2 has more power but the nano is more detailed and very wide and spacious.




Any idea if the nano works otg with a note 3 (or any other android device)?


----------



## emusic13

bavinck said:


> Any idea if the nano works otg with a note 3 (or any other android device)?




It does work otg as mentioned before. I purchased one of the short printer otg cables to usb b on ebay.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Works fine with Android devices, use the latest firmware 5.0 for the nano iDSD which improved support for Android devices and even if your phone don't support it directly, you can use 3rd party apps like USB audio player pro, HibyMusic or Onkyo HF player.


----------



## bavinck

h1f1add1cted said:


> Works fine with Android devices, use the latest firmware 5.0 for the nano iDSD which improved support for Android devices and even if your phone don't support it directly, you can use 3rd party apps like USB audio player pro, HibyMusic or Onkyo HF player.




What do you have the idsd commented to? Why add another device, what do you find it adds to the nano idsd sound?


----------



## shabta

bavinck said:


> Any idea if the nano works otg with a note 3 (or any other android device)?


 
 I use my nano with a Note 4.


----------



## bavinck

shabta said:


> I use my nano with a Note 4.




Does it work with tidal?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

bavinck said:


> What do you have the idsd commented to? Why add another device, what do you find it adds to the nano idsd sound?


 

 It's the nano iCAN amp from iFi, it only adds more power and a nice crossfeed, that's all.
  
 I have now the micro iDSD which covers both devices (nano iDSD and nano iCAN) in one single device + more features and options and even more power. But costs quite high too.


----------



## shabta

bavinck said:


> Does it work with tidal?


 
 With UAPP, yes.


----------



## bavinck

shabta said:


> With UAPP, yes.




How do you use tidal and uapp together??


----------



## shabta

You select Tidal from the drop down menu on the homescreen. You can download a trial version of UAPP onto your phone and just see if you can get Tidal to work... It is pretty easy.


----------



## bavinck

shabta said:


> You select Tidal from the drop down menu on the homescreen. You can download a trial version of UAPP onto your phone and just see if you can get Tidal to work... It is pretty easy.




Having trouble getting this to log in properly. Would prefer using the tidal app itself, have you tried using the tidal app with the note 4 and nano?


----------



## Thazzz

thazzz said:


> Do you think That the nano iDSD it's a good dac With the micro iCAN hp and the 400i?
> I do not know if there will be any improvement compared to fiio e10k...


 
 Please, can someone tell me something about this post?
 Especially i'm interested about the diferences between e10k and this fiio.
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## technobear

thazzz said:


> thazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think That the nano iDSD it's a good dac With the micro iCAN hp and the 400i?
> ...




Keep whatever you have and start saving for a micro iDAC2.


----------



## earwaxxer

I would also recommend saving for the iDSD micro. I have both. The Nano is fantastic! It was my best sounding DAC until I got the Micro. Micro plus iTube  even better- is a great match in my system.


----------



## Thazzz

technobear said:


> Keep whatever you have and start saving for a micro iDAC2.


 
 Haha, its many money for me 
  
 In this moment I am undecided between the Nano and the ODAC IDSD.
 I created a post explaining my question, if someone can tell me something... (or here, I do not care)
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/790343/nano-idsd-or-jds-odac-rca
  
 Thanks!


----------



## technobear

thazzz said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Keep whatever you have and start saving for a micro iDAC2.
> ...




Oh. Yet you have micro iCAN and HE400i. The micro iDAC2 is the right choice.

Still, the nano iDSD is very good. I've heard one and enjoyed it very much.

The ODAC is Sabre-based is it not. It will sound different to the nano iDSD. Only you can decide which you prefer.


----------



## Thazzz

technobear said:


> Oh. Yet you have micro iCAN and HE400i. The micro iDAC2 is the right choice.
> 
> Still, the nano iDSD is very good. I've heard one and enjoyed it very much.
> 
> The ODAC is Sabre-based is it not. It will sound different to the nano iDSD. Only you can decide which you prefer.


 
 Thanks for asnwer!

 What is "Sabre-based"?
  
 The problem with the DAC2 is the price, in my country (Spain) costs 400 €


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

thazzz said:


> Haha, its many money for me
> 
> In this moment I am undecided between the Nano and the ODAC IDSD.
> I created a post explaining my question, if someone can tell me something... (or here, I do not care)
> ...


 

  

  

  
 I have the iDSD nano (middle)
                  iCAN nano (bottom bottom)
                  iDSD micro (top)
  
  
 The iDSD/iCAN nano stack is the best sounding combo
  
 I was going to say if money is the factor than the ODAC is the clear choice but as pointed out....your gear does not reflect a state of _poorness_




  
 I'm not familiar with the RCA ODAC but have heard the regular version (mini out). If you are going for the better DAC then it would be the iDSD in my totally bias fanboy opinion. In a spec jockey mode the iDSD would seem to be superior in it's ability to handle higher quality files. Not that we can hear that crazy high quality but it can do it while the ODAC is 24/96.


----------



## iFi audio

hawaiibadboy said:


> I have the iDSD nano (middle)
> iCAN nano (bottom bottom)
> iDSD micro (top)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the nano iDSD+nano iCAN is very, very nice. Some customers use this combo with their modded Fostex T50RPs. With a tricked out T50RP, all told, for not excessive money this setup is quite out of this world. It was that nice that we 'lost' one such set at last year's Windsor Show including the Fostex!
  
 Another nice setup is Sony Z tablet + nano iCAN + headphones to watch movies. One can really 'dive' into blockbusters as the picture+sound quality are pretty special for a quite ordinary setup that is portable around the house.


----------



## iFi audio

Join the force.......head over to our competition for a chance to win some iFi goodies and get the latest on the iCan SE Micro!
  
 Thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-intergalactic-launch-competition


----------



## PREDATOR

Hello guys!
  
 My iFi nano arrived today and I'm very pleased how it sounds (compared to my old Musiland Monitor 03 US).
 Is there a way to select the output (headphones or RCA line output) from software? My old DAC had this option and it was very useful to me because I kept both outputs plugged in and DAC behind the desk.
 With nano, when I plug in the headphones, RCA line shuts down.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Hi,
  
 welcome to the iFi club.
  
 You can't switch between 3,5mm and RCA output. Both are shared singals, this two outputs are not separate for switching. You can use the 3,5 or RCA like you want, but no option to disable or enable one of them.


----------



## PREDATOR

Thank you for your warm welcome h1f1add1cted.
 I guess I'll have to keep it on the desk and plug/unplug the headphones by my need. Build quality seems very good, I hope that this process won't kill the 3.5 mm plug in 2-3 years.


----------



## Dixter

Also the output turns into a " Line Out " voltage when you turn the volume knob to its full on position....   not for when you are using your headphones, only when you want to use it as line out mode...    you'll need to understand the way the battery works too...   turn the nano on before you hook up the USB then your under battery power...   plug the nano in to USB then turn it on then its running off of the USB power.... if your not careful you can run the battery all the way to dead....


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Holiday version of the _stack_
  
  
 You folks have a safe and Happy Holiday


----------



## iFi audio

hawaiibadboy said:


> Holiday version of the _stack_
> 
> 
> You folks have a safe and Happy Holiday


 
  
 Another vinyl lover.  Man after our own hearts....same to all. And thanks all the nice people here. There are some really nice people here.


----------



## Angular Mo

*USB/SPDIF COAX converter capabilities*
  
 Anyone have any comments/opinions/suggestions on the Coax digital output capabilities?
  
 Admittedly, this is the first device for me with USB/SPDIF converter capabilities.
  
 So, how does Coax compare with Toslink?
  
 I would expect coax to not have all the power=noise and kitter effects infamous for USB for which I have invested in the Uptone Regen, Audioquest Litterbug, and the Schiit Wyrd.
  
  
 My initial use is;
  
 iPhono ---> Nano --->  Mojo --->  Vali ---> DT 990 250 ohm.


----------



## ClieOS

angular mo said:


> ....
> My initial use is;
> 
> iPhono ---> Nano --->  Mojo --->  Vali ---> DT 990 250 ohm.


 
  
 You do realize that with a CCK, you can connect iPhone to Mojo directly, right? In fact you can probably leave the Vali out as well.


----------



## Angular Mo

Yes, I have been using USB to the Mojo for the past month.

However, given all the criticism about USB jitter, etc.... I thought I would ask those with experience to opine on Coax.

Naturally I am talking about home-listening for this particular use-case.


----------



## ClieOS

angular mo said:


> Yes, I have been using USB to the Mojo for the past month.
> 
> *However, given all the criticism about USB jitter, etc.*... I thought I would ask those with experience to opine on Coax.
> 
> Naturally I am talking about home-listening for this particular use-case.


 
  
 I think you are just being paranoid from over-reading. Coax can introduce just as much jitter as USB - besides, Mojo already has asynchronous USB that should prevents any jitter issue.


----------



## Angular Mo

Paranoid? ClieOS, go away, please.

How would I know that coax introduces jitter also?

I am interested in learning from people who are kind and not insulting to others.


----------



## ClieOS

angular mo said:


> Paranoid? ClieOS, go away, please.
> 
> How would I know that coax introduces jitter also?
> 
> I am interested in learning from people who are kind and not insulting to others.


 
  
 Paranoid is a word I'll use for describing a state of mind and not for insult. - but if that's how strongly you have felt, then I shall stop from replying you anymore. Regard.


----------



## iFi audio

angular mo said:


> Yes, I have been using USB to the Mojo for the past month.
> 
> However, given all the criticism about USB jitter, etc.... I thought I would ask those with experience to opine on Coax.
> 
> Naturally I am talking about home-listening for this particular use-case.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As a general rule:
  
 Any conversion always introduces more jitter than keeping the signal original.
  
 So if USB is okay to use straight, then keep it USB.  Dont convert to SPDIF and then back again.
  
 As ClieOS said, keep it same for the Mojo or any other device that accepts CCK > usb > DAC.  But try for yourself and let your ears decide.


----------



## rickyleelee

Clios is a very helpful and knowledgeable. So respect. Brother.


----------



## PREDATOR

dixter said:


> Also the output turns into a " Line Out " voltage when you turn the volume knob to its full on position....   not for when you are using your headphones, only when you want to use it as line out mode...    you'll need to understand the way the battery works too...   turn the nano on before you hook up the USB then your under battery power...   plug the nano in to USB then turn it on then its running off of the USB power.... if your not careful you can run the battery all the way to dead....


 

 Thank you for this great info, I much appreciate it!
 Basically, I must turn on the computer first and then the DAC if I want to power it from the USB port.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

@Angular Mo
  
 You worry too much about inaudible things. ClieOS doesn't blame you, English is not my first language but for me his words sounds friendly, with a hint that you should ignore/skip this kind "bad jitter panic posts from other people” in the forums.
  
 I own the Chord Mojo since the first batch. I own the iFi micro iDSD (before the little brother nano iDSD) since the beginning and none of them sound bad or worse with any kind of input including USB.
  
 I tested, toslink, coax and USB input and this three inputs sounding always the same (great) on Chord Mojo and micro iDSD (both devices have this 3 different inputs).
  
 The sources are different devices, like simple mobile phones like Samsung S4, real DAPs like iBasso DX50, regular hardware like Windows machine, Daphile Box and others.
  
 The only “reason” to choose USB instead of toslink or coax is if you want to use DSD playback, for native and DoP playback without any limitation. But sound wise all 3 inputs sounding always the same if you use PCM music files.


----------



## Angular Mo

Do you have a preference among the inputs for the Mojo?

I am not worrying, I am asking for opinions of those with more experience than I have.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

angular mo said:


> Do you have a preference among the inputs for the Mojo?
> 
> I am not worrying, I am asking for opinions of those with more experience than I have.


 

  
 This works well for me
  
  
  
 And this is ubertastic


----------



## h1f1add1cted

angular mo said:


> Do you have a preference among the inputs for the Mojo?
> 
> I am not worrying, I am asking for opinions of those with more experience than I have.


 
 No as I said, the input doesn't matter. I only use mostly coax because my DAPs has only coax output, that the only reason. Use what ever you want, it makes zero differences SQ wise. If you want to pair it with you iPhone do it with any compatible cable (like the FiiO L19 works fine with iPhone and Mojo) and enjoy music.
  
 But this is the iFi nano iDSD thread, I think that should be enough talk about different product, there is a separate thread for Mojo. If you want some comments about Mojo vs iDSD: http://www.head-fi.org/t/789009/chord-mojo-vs-ifi-micro-idsd-vs-m9xx-optional-vs-audeze-deckard-lcd-3-or-sony-xba-z5#post_12123174


----------



## stefanolandesca

Hi. Newbie here. I just want to ask how can i connect my fiiox3ii to the dac/amp of the idsd nano to bypass the dac of the fiio. What kind of cable do i need? Thank you in advance.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Not possible with the FiiO X3 II. The USB port from the FiiO device is a USB OTG port, but only for USB storage. No USB audio is possible in any way sorry. You need a portable dac/amp device with digital coax input, the nano iDSD has only USB input (and coax output), if you go for the bigger borther micro iDSD, which provides coax input, you can connect the FiiO X3 II with a FiiO coax adaptor and a short coax cable to the micro iDSD, but this will not work for the nano iDSD, because this device don't have a coax input.


----------



## stefanolandesca

h1f1add1cted said:


> Not possible with the FiiO X3 II. The USB port from the FiiO device is a USB OTG port, but only for USB storage. No USB audio is possible in any way sorry. You need a portable dac/amp device with digital coax input, the nano iDSD has only USB input (and coax output), if you go for the bigger borther micro iDSD, which provides coax input, you can connect the FiiO X3 II with a FiiO coax adaptor and a short coax cable to the micro iDSD, but this will not work for the nano iDSD, because this device don't have a coax input.



Thank you for the helpful info. So these are a no go for me then. Might have to settle with the mojo.


----------



## spdtdl

Neeeeeeeeeeeeddddd Moreeeeeeeeeee Powwwwwweeeeeeeerrrrrrrrr Captaaaaaaiiiinnnnnnnnnnnn!
  

  
 Ordered the iCAN SE on 11th, still with the courier somewhere. It canneeee take anymore captainnnnnn!!!!


----------



## spdtdl

In Windows 10 (Playback > Sounds), I can only select a max of 32 bit 192000 Hz. 
  
 I thought the nano could do 32 / 384?
  
 Firmware V5
  
 Any Ideas?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Use the nano iDSD with the ASIO driver in your player software like foobar2000 with DSD plugin works fine.


----------



## howdy

h1f1add1cted said:


> Use the nano iDSD with the ASIO driver in your player software like foobar2000 with DSD plugin works fine.


 
 you have the Mojo too right?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

@howdy
  
 Yes I have the Mojo, and the big brother from nano iDSD the micro iDSD (and micro CAN, and others lol) too. Compared them here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/789009/chord-mojo-vs-ifi-micro-idsd-vs-m9xx-optional-vs-audeze-deckard-lcd-3-or-sony-xba-z5#post_12123174


----------



## howdy

Great review but, so which one is more of your go to. Im trying to find something to go with my DX90 and its either something like this or the Mojo. I see you prefer the Mojo for IEMs and iFi for full size but what sound are you liking more?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Sound impressions are too subjective to tell, I could now start with a long 'flower speech' about both devices, but this would not help any one. Since both devices delivers really outstanding high SQ, I would if you want to pick at the end only ONE device, choose the right for you and your gear - like think about: form factor, battery life, inputs, outputs, features, options, and and and.


----------



## Mick-Jogger

Hey guys,
  
 I just ordered the DT880, Fidelio X2 and the HD650. Do you guys think the ifi nano amp will be enough to power these headphones for a comparision or should i look into buying a headphone amp.


----------



## spdtdl

It will run them, but I needed more to make my 400i's come alive.
  
 iCAN SE is calling your name. Or go Micro iDSD.


----------



## howdy

I was able to obtain a iFi nano, is there any easy way to hook this up to a DX90?


----------



## ClieOS

howdy said:


> I was able to obtain a iFi nano, is there any easy way to hook this up to a DX90?


 
  
 There is no easy way - in fact, there is no way to hook it up to DX90.


----------



## howdy

clieos said:


> There is no easy way - in fact, there is no way to hook it up to DX90.


 
 Do any of the ifi line connect easily to the DX90


----------



## ClieOS

howdy said:


> Do any of the ifi line connect easily to the DX90


 
  
 Yes, the micro iDSD can take DX90's coax-out.


----------



## Spirulina780

Can the iFi products be used as an amp only with rca inputs? is there any reasonably priced portable dac/amp that can?


----------



## iFi audio

howdy said:


> Do any of the ifi line connect easily to the DX90


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This is how A&K customers take the next level up. Should be the same for DX90.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/astell-kern/


----------



## h1f1add1cted

The DX90 has coaxial out instead of optical toslink out like the A&K, a different cable is needed.
  
 This is how to connect your DX90 or DX50 with the micro iDSD:
  

  
 On top is my custom made Mini to RCA coaxial cable, on bottom the default iBasso Mini to RCA cable which is a part of DX90 / DX50 package, no need to buy a addtional cable, only if you want like me a smaller cable. The small adapter you can ignore, it's for a different device needed.


----------



## OverImagination

Hey guys.
  
 When going from the nano idsd to receiver to speakers, is there any difference between using the headphone jack output and rca output? Or are they exactly the same, just making sure to max the volume knob on the nano?


----------



## ClieOS

overimagination said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> When going from the nano idsd to receiver to speakers, is there any difference between using the headphone jack output and rca output? Or are they exactly the same, just making sure to max the volume knob on the nano?


 
  
 Same and yes.


----------



## ugly95

Hi everyone.
  
 I really like this device, but I've had some issues with my iDSD nano.  With 2 different units.
  
 Often, one of my RCA channels drop out.  Usually it's the left channel.  Sometimes the right.
  
 It usually happens immediately when I unplug the headphones.  But sometimes, after 15 minutes or so, the audio will drop.
  
 Usually plugging and unplugging the headphones fixes the issues.  But sometimes it doesn't.  Sometimes, unplugging the RCA cable and plugging it back in helps.  Sometimes partially inserting the headphone jack helps.  Sometimes unplugging the USB connector helps.
  
 The causes and fixes vary, so it's a hard issue to pin down.
  
 I originally started using my iDSD nano around the beginning of January 2015.  I don't remember when I first started having issues, but I contacted tech support around August 2015.  Ifi tech support suggestion repeatedly inserting the headphones, but that wasn't a permanent fix.  Eventually I was forwarded to the retailer and I received a replacement unit.  I received the new unit at the beginning of September 2015.
  
 At first the new unit worked great.  But, over time, I've noticed the issue happening again.
  
 Since I've already replaced one unit and have what seems like the same issue twice, I'm wondering if there's an issue with my setup, or something that I'm doing.  It doesn't happen often enough that I'd consider talking to tech support again, but it is starting to bother me.
  
 I have the iDSD nano, with the latest firmware (I updated the firmware to the 5.0A).  I'm connected to my PC (Win7 x64) via USB 3.0.
  
 The RCA cables are connected to a pair of powered monitors, the Emotiva Airmotiv 4S (http://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-4s)
  
 The headphones I use are the Sony MDR-7506 (https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-MDR7506/)
  
 I switch between my headphones and speakers often.  At least twice a day.  My volume dial usually doesn't go past the halfway point.
  
 With my first iDSD nano I did test on other speakers and the issue still occurred.  I haven't test with other speakers with the new unit.
  
 I'd appreciate any thoughts or help.  Thanks.


----------



## fotomeow

I thinking of buying the iDSD Nano, but the current version only accepts
 USB type B jacks for digital input from the music library.
  
 I would like to use my iPhone as a digital library and run it (portably) into the Nano.
 But I can't find a short mini digital cable with Lightning on one end and USB B on the other.
  
 Anyone know where I can get one? 
 thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

fotomeow said:


> I thinking of buying the iDSD Nano, but the current version only accepts
> USB type B jacks for digital input from the music library.
> 
> I would like to use my iPhone as a digital library and run it (portably) into the Nano.
> ...


 
  
 You can't, because no such a cable exists that can work between an iPhone and nano iDSD. You MUST use an official CCK and at least iOS7 for iPhone to work with nano iDSD.


----------



## hamachan

ugly95 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I really like this device, but I've had some issues with my iDSD nano.  With 2 different units.
> 
> ...


 

 I have same issue, not only nano iDSD but also micro iDAC2 (both firmware is 5.0, driver version is 2.26 for Windows10 64bit).  I also tried several way and found that it could solve if I run "test" of audio playback device on Windows.  It means the issue seems not be hardware, but software, though I am not sure if it is caused by iFi's device driver or Microsoft.


----------



## fotomeow

fotomeow said:


> I thinking of buying the iDSD Nano, but the current version only accepts
> USB type B jacks for digital input from the music library.
> 
> I would like to use my iPhone as a digital library and run it (portably) into the Nano.
> ...


 
  
  


clieos said:


> You can't, because no such a cable exists that can work between an iPhone and nano iDSD. You MUST use an official CCK and at least iOS7 for iPhone to work with nano iDSD.


 
 Thank you @ClieOS; I emailed iFi as well, and they told me the same thing: get a CCK, then get a small (1-2") adapter: USB A female to USB B male.
  

 I looked online for this type of adapter, all i find are "cheap" ones made in China.
  
 (_I dont need an "audiophile" quality adapter,but I just can't stomach using the Chinese version when all my other gear is very good quality to get good sound._)
  
 Anyone know where I can get a higher quality adapter?: USB A female to USB B male.


----------



## iFi audio

fotomeow said:


> Anyone know where I can get a higher quality adapter?: USB A female to USB B male.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 If you intend to use the CCK > Adapter > nano iDSD, we recommend that you dont use the adapter. Stick with the short USB cabe (or find another USB cable that is even shorter if you like).
  
 This may not be the best choice, it may stress the CCK cable. Unless the kind of socket as on the iDSD micro and the mechanical arrangement when these two are clam-shelled better to have a short cable to help strain relief and longevity.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Keanhooi

clieos said:


> Yes, the micro iDSD can take DX90's coax-out.
> [/quote. Will the iDSD nano take FiiO X3 ll otg-usb out ?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

No


keanhooi said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the micro iDSD can take DX90's coax-out.
> > [/quote. Will the iDSD nano take FiiO X3 ll otg-usb out ?


 

 No. The USB OTG port is only for USB storage, no USB audio.


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> No
> 
> No. The USB OTG port is only for USB storage, no USB audio.


 
  
 To further explain - you need at least something with a smart OS (that is, iOS or Android) to have the ability to support USB OTG for USB Audio Class devices, which is what nano iDSD is. The only DAP that does support USB DAC and doesn't have a smart OS is Sony A series (A10 and A20), but you will need a special cable to enable that function.


----------



## fotomeow

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you intend to use the CCK > Adapter > nano iDSD, we recommend that you dont use the adapter. Stick with the short USB cabe (or find another USB cable that is even shorter if you like).
> 
> ...


 

 I hear you, but that is not what the iFi Customer Service Rep reported to me. They even sent me a pic in the email of a 1-2" USB A --> B adapter that I could use. I can send you the email if you would like. 
  
 But more importantly, is iFi willing to to implement a USB A type input on the Nano? Like they did with the Micro iDSD? 
  
 I received an email from iFi who stated that "members of Headfi" had recommended to iFi that they change the input on the Micro iDSD from USB B to USB A so as to complement the Apple CCK that so many of us use with our iPhones (or iDevices). 
  
 Can I have a nano iDSD specifically made for me with the Type A input?


----------



## technobear

fotomeow said:


> Can I have a nano iDSD specifically made for me with the Type A input?




Dude, you are hilarious!


----------



## ugly95

hamachan said:


> I have same issue, not only nano iDSD but also micro iDAC2 (both firmware is 5.0, driver version is 2.26 for Windows10 64bit).  I also tried several way and found that it could solve if I run "test" of audio playback device on Windows.  It means the issue seems not be hardware, but software, though I am not sure if it is caused by iFi's device driver or Microsoft.


 
  
 Thanks for the response.
  
 I tried doing the "test", and it doesn't seem to help my situation.  I assume you mean the test when you go to Playback Devices and Windows plays a little chime on both speakers.
  
 What seems to work best for me is partially inserting the headphone jack and sort of feeling around inside.
  
 But the problem is that the channel goes out in the first place.  Most of the time when I listen to something the first thing I have to do is make sure I'm getting both channels.


----------



## hamachan

ugly95 said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> I tried doing the "test", and it doesn't seem to help my situation.  I assume you mean the test when you go to Playback Devices and Windows plays a little chime on both speakers.
> 
> ...


 

 My case is rarely happened and seems be different issue since your case looks serious but again it may not be caused by hardware.  Umm...


----------



## rickyleelee

x


----------



## rickyleelee

w


----------



## rickyleelee

fotomeow said:


> Can I have a nano iDSD specifically made for me with the Type A input?


  

i choked on my kentucky fried drumstick!


----------



## iFi audio

ugly95 said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> I tried doing the "test", and it doesn't seem to help my situation.  I assume you mean the test when you go to Playback Devices and Windows plays a little chime on both speakers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Open a support ticket and the techs will troubleshoot with you. Much faster!


----------



## iFi audio

*Unified Firmware 5.1* *Gelato and then some*
  
  

  
 Southport, UK – 18th February 2016
  
  
*Latest U**nified **Firmware **v5.1 **‘Gelato’ (for Stereo 50 /micro iDSD / micro iDAC2 / nano iDSD)*
  
 The very latest in-house firmware[1] version 5.1 for *ALL* iFi products[2] is available:

All-new XMOS ‘deep-core processes’ software for different behaviour of SPDIF (after XMOS previously modified the USB section).
Enables DSD256 for 48kHz based sample rates up-conversion when using DSD256 in DoP mode.
Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD and other minor bug fixes.
  
 For customers with particular requirements, there are two firmware sub-versions (PLEASE read carefully):
  
 2) *For nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 v5.1A* - *Enables DOP256 operation*

This enables DSD256(DoP) operation, which requires 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level.  
Nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 CANNOT decode 768kHz at the DAC level, but they can all be programmed to receive 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level hence enable DSD256(DoP). 
With 5.1A, the user MUST make sure to manually alter the PCM audio settings correctly (especially Mac), otherwise there will be no audio output at all.
In other words, when playing PCM files, the sample rate must NOT set to be higher than 384kHz.  Only set the sampling rate to 768kHz when one wants to play DSD256(DoP).
There is no need to use this firmware if one uses ‘native mode’ (not DoP) to play DSD or DSD files are not played at all.
Do NOT use 5.1A on any other products other than nano iDSD and micro iDAC2.
 
 3) *For iDSD micro Firmware v5.1B - Disable Sleep Mode (Smartphone users ONLY)*

This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.1B on the micro iDSD.
The micro iDSD micro will try to recharge while in Sleep Mode (e.g. when connected to a PC).  If connected to a Smartphone which is ‘seen’ as a computer, it will recharge via the Smartphone.
5.1B disables the Sleep Mode within the micro iDSD; hence it will no longer try to recharge during Sleep Mode and flatten the Smartphone’s battery.
Do NOT use 5.1B on any other products other than micro iDSD.
  
  
 For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
  
 or on the website, select 'Support' > 'Download'
     [1] WARNING: Do NOT flash non-iFi products on the XMOS platform with iFi firmware!

  [2] iFi Native DSD-capable DACs so original iDAC excluded so do NOT update using v5.10.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Nice thanks! Own my mirco iDSD since 2014, one of the best buys under 500 Euro for this kind of portable DAC/AMP, no competion in its price range - function, option, power and connection wise.


----------



## SubSTI

I have an annoying issue with my Nano, the tiniest movevement of the USB cable will break connection, music stops and I have to restart again, looks like a wacky contact in the Nano. Changed cables already without luck. No way I can use it portable currently.
Anyone else experienced the same problem?


----------



## iFi audio

substi said:


> I have an annoying issue with my Nano, the tiniest movevement of the USB cable will break connection, music stops and I have to restart again, looks like a wacky contact in the Nano. Changed cables already without luck. No way I can use it portable currently.
> Anyone else experienced the same problem?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Loose USB pins at the port?

 Open a support ticket - techs will try to trouble shoot with you.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## SubSTI

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Loose USB pins at the port?
> 
> ...



Could be, I contacted the dealer already and sending the Nano to them tot investigation.


----------



## SubSTI

A big thanks to the iFi reseller http://artsexcellence.com/. Sent the Nano on Monday, they received it on Tuesday and replaced the main board straight away and updated the firmware to the latest version. I received the Nano back on Wednesday again, working as it supposed to be. Couldn't be happier.


----------



## Koolpep

After the ifi iDSD micro and iUSB - I am now the proud owner of a iDSD nano as well (for the office).
  
 Love the sound it creates, with the new firmware it's even more enjoyable somehow. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## SubSTI

koolpep said:


> After the ifi iDSD micro and iUSB - I am now the proud owner of a iDSD nano as well (for the office).
> 
> Love the sound it creates, with the new firmware it's even more enjoyable somehow.
> 
> Cheers!


 
 Have fun with it, it's a great little allrounder for use at home and on-the-go.


----------



## argustimewas

I've just bought an iFi nano iDSD. 

It's connected to a MacBook Pro playing iTunes ALAC ripped from red book CDs. 

Headphone and analogue RCA outputs work fine. 

Am getting no sound from the coaxial SPDIF output - any ideas why please?


----------



## technobear

argustimewas said:


> I've just bought an iFi nano iDSD.
> 
> It's connected to a MacBook Pro playing iTunes ALAC ripped from red book CDs.
> 
> ...




The coaxial output can only output PCM. If you feed the iDSD with DSD then you will get nothing out of the coaxial output.

Is your MacBook playing or converting to DSD?

Otherwise dunno.


----------



## jedi5diah

baxide said:


> Am I the only person who thinks that it is a silly place to put the RCA sockets on the front panel right next to the headphone socket?


 
 itz not if you have the right cable/adaptor it can look really pro/cool


----------



## Koolpep

argustimewas said:


> I've just bought an iFi nano iDSD.
> 
> It's connected to a MacBook Pro playing iTunes ALAC ripped from red book CDs.
> 
> ...




 What are you trying to feed it with ? What's the target to be fed spdif? Maybe the destination cannot understand the frequency range of the output ? Spdif is not really standardized in all frequencies.

Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

koolpep said:


> What are you trying to feed it with ? What's the target to be fed spdif? Maybe the destination cannot understand the frequency range of the output ? Spdif is not really standardized in all frequencies.
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The SPDIF out is always present. Playing PCM is fine but can you check the downstream SPDIF input source?
  
 Best open a support ticket and ask a tech to look at your setup.

 Cheers


----------



## argustimewas

Thanks for all the helpful replies. 

I opened a support ticket with iFi and got a brilliantly prompt and helpful response. 

Turns out my Audio Midi app was being a bit glitchy as I found I was also experiencing problems with an E-DAC. A relaunching od Audio Midi has provided a remedy. 

Sounds great - what a great product.


----------



## oceandream1

hello all, i am torn between meridian e2 and iFi Audio Nano iDSD USB DAC. have anyone used both, offer a comparison. i have phillips x2 and will be playing through my laptop mainly. thanks


----------



## jedi5diah

oceandream1 said:


> hello all, i am torn between meridian e2 and iFi Audio Nano iDSD USB DAC. have anyone used both, offer a comparison. i have phillips x2 and will be playing through my laptop mainly. thanks


 
 @obsidyen using X2 with e2
  
 ask him
  
 ifi nano able to run a pair of monitors if you are open to that option


----------



## oceandream1

i just got it yesterday. i prefer it slightly over the meridian explorer 2 which i also have. the sound seems slightly more punchy and maybe a tad warmer or fuller. and this works better for hard rock/ grunge and metal etc. it is not perfect but i do feel its something you can live with. cons would be i wish the clarity/detail and instrument separation was a bit better. i am really interested in comparisons with dragonfly red and hrt microstreamer.


----------



## technobear

oceandream1 said:


> i just got it yesterday. i prefer it slightly over the meridian explorer 2 which i also have. the sound seems slightly more punchy and maybe a tad warmer or fuller. and this works better for hard rock/ grunge and metal etc. it is not perfect but i do feel its something you can live with. cons would be i wish the clarity/detail and instrument separation was a bit better. i am really interested in comparisons with dragonfly red and hrt microstreamer.




Is it brand new? It improves markedly over the first 200 hours or so. Keep it playing.


----------



## unityplanet

Hi guys, what is better nano iDSD or TEAC HA-P50 or ONKYO DAC-HA200?


----------



## technobear

unityplanet said:


> Hi guys, what is better nano iDSD or TEAC HA-P50 or ONKYO DAC-HA200?




Listen to each and decide which you prefer.


----------



## unityplanet

technobear said:


> Listen to each and decide which you prefer.


 
 I cannot listen non of them as there is no shops around, only can order only and having budget of not more than 300 US$. So, was considering Ifi nano iDSD or other. Still didnt decide.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

unityplanet said:


> I cannot listen non of them as there is no shops around, only can order only and having budget of not more than 300 US$. So, was considering Ifi nano iDSD or other. Still didnt decide.


 

 What headphones that are you using?


----------



## unityplanet

colonelbucket8 said:


> What headphones that are you using?


 
 I use meze 99 classic


----------



## unityplanet

can anyone reply which amp is better to buy with the budget of 300 US$?


----------



## ColonelBucket8

unityplanet said:


> can anyone reply which amp is better to buy with the budget of 300 US$?


 

 If you want amp only, go for micro ican. Maybe a little out of budget, but it is really good for its price.


----------



## Koolpep

unityplanet said:


> can anyone reply which amp is better to buy with the budget of 300 US$?




Better for what? Which cans do you want to drive? Is portability important, which source/player or DAC will you be using?

Cheers.


----------



## unityplanet

colonelbucket8 said:


> If you want amp only, go for micro ican. Maybe a little out of budget, but it is really good for its price.


 
 I think micro ican is good idea and costs in my country 315 CHF, but it seems not portable like others and doesnt have USB OTG. Am I right? Thought that through USB OTG the signal transmission can be better.


----------



## unityplanet

koolpep said:


> Better for what? Which cans do you want to drive? Is portability important, which source/player or DAC will you be using?
> 
> Cheers.


 
 HI, I will be using Samsung S6 or Sony Xperia Z3 with Onkyo or Neutron player or my desktop computer. And have Meze 99 Classic. Will be playing FLAC or DSD files.


----------



## Koolpep

unityplanet said:


> I think micro ican is good idea and costs in my country 315 CHF, but it seems not portable like others and doesnt have USB OTG. Am I right? Thought that through USB OTG the signal transmission can be better.


 
  
 Yes, using an external DAC can increase the sound quality. Then you need to use the iDSD as this is a DAC/Amp.
  
 The iCAN nano is battery powered (up to 70 hours!!): 
The iFi nano iCAN is the battery-powered, half-sized version of the multiple-award winning micro series.

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-ican/

  
  


unityplanet said:


> HI, I will be using Samsung S6 or Sony Xperia Z3 with Onkyo or Neutron player or my desktop computer. And have Meze 99 Classic. Will be playing FLAC or DSD files.


 
  
 I am not an expert with USB OTG for Android and the iDSD. But it works fine with apple devices on the go.
  
 cheers.


----------



## unityplanet

Hi Coolpep,
  
do you think The 3D HolographicSound® system and XBass® option really work?
  
Yes, USB OTG is a way to transmit information in Android devices.
  
Before I wanted to buy Onkyo player but decided to wait for iBasso DX200, while waiting want to try headphones amp.
  
Do you think iFi Audio amp are better than TEAC or ONKYO?


----------



## Koolpep

unityplanet said:


> Hi Coolpep,
> 
> do you think The 3D HolographicSound® system and XBass® option really work?
> 
> ...


 

 3D and XBass do work very well, but the iDSD nano doesn't have it, but the iCAN nano.


----------



## unityplanet

koolpep said:


> 3D and XBass do work very well, but the iDSD nano doesn't have it, but the iCAN nano.


 
 Yes, I saw it in description. But iDSD costs more than iCAN nano, 26 CHF difference. Is it because this is more recent model?


----------



## Koolpep

unityplanet said:


> Yes, I saw it in description. But iDSD costs more than iCAN nano, 26 CHF difference. Is it because this is more recent model?


 

 iDSD is a DAC/Amp and iCAN is only an amp.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## unityplanet

koolpep said:


> iDSD is a DAC/Amp and iCAN is only an amp.
> 
> Cheers!


 
 thank you for clarification.


----------



## unityplanet

what is your opinion about this product: http://www.teac.com/product/ha-p5/ if to compare with iFi Audio ?


----------



## Koolpep

unityplanet said:


> what is your opinion about this product: http://www.teac.com/product/ha-p5/ if to compare with iFi Audio ?


 

 It's pretty new and around the $500 mark.... it all sounds very good from the description but have not heard it yet.


----------



## unityplanet

koolpep said:


> It's pretty new and around the $500 mark.... it all sounds very good from the description but have not heard it yet.


 
 yes, through buyee.jp then price with shipping is around 470 US$. It uses the same Burr-Brown PCM1795 as in Portable amplifier/player TEAC HA-P90SD which was released last year.
  
 Here is a link with small review: http://www.head-fi.org/t/803799/can-anyone-recommend-the-teac-ha-p5#post_12527698


----------



## upsguys88

Anyone have or know where I can get one of those little clear rubber pads that comes with the ifi nano?


----------



## ClieOS

upsguys88 said:


> Anyone have or know where I can get one of those little clear rubber pads that comes with the ifi nano?


 
  
 Newer iFi packaging comes with special made thin rubber feet by 3M, which I'll guess you can't buy from anywhere (but you can probably ask iFi customer service if they can send you some).
  
 Older iFi packaging come with the thicker 3M Bumpon SJ5303, which can be easily found online.


----------



## upsguys88

clieos said:


> Newer iFi packaging comes with special made thin rubber feet by 3M, which I'll guess you can't buy from anywhere (but you can probably ask iFi customer service if they can send you some).
> 
> Older iFi packaging come with the thicker 3M Bumpon SJ5303, which can be easily found online.


 
 I should have been more specific, I meant the flat square rubber pad that is meant to put inbetween the nano and an audio player as a stack, looks like this


----------



## ClieOS

upsguys88 said:


> I should have been more specific, I meant the flat square rubber pad that is meant to put inbetween the nano and an audio player as a stack, looks like this


 
  
Oh, never actually saw anyone selling those individually. But you can probably but a piece of silicone mat and cut it out yourself.
  
 Just recalled FiiO does sell them as accessories. You can find it here:http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/FiiO-Silicon-Rubber-pad/1473108_32339738547.html (copy and paste link if clicking doesn't work).


----------



## iFi audio

For immediate distribution:
*Unified Firmware 5.2* *Limoncello*
  
  

  
  
 Southport, UK – 13th May 2016
  
*Latest U**nified **Firmware **v5.2 **‘Limoncello’*
 The very latest in-house firmware1 version 5.2 for *ALL* iFi products2 is available. It is very similar to Gelato v5.1 but there some nice, minor improvements:

Minor code optimisation.
Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD.
  
  
  
As before, for customers with particular requirements, there are two firmware sub-versions:
2) *For nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 v5.2A* - *Enables DOP256 operation*

This enables DSD256(DoP) operation, which requires 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level.  
Nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 CANNOT decode 768kHz at the DAC level, but they can all be programmed to receive 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level hence enable DSD256(DoP).  
With 5.2A, the user MUST make sure to manually alter the PCM audio settings correctly (especially Mac), otherwise there will be no audio output at all.
In other words, when playing PCM files, the sample rate must NOT set to be higher than 384kHz.  Only set the sampling rate to 768kHz when one wants to play DSD256(DoP).
There is no need to use this firmware if one uses ‘native mode’ (not DoP) to play DSD or if DSD files are not played at all.
Do NOT use 5.2A on any other products other than nano iDSD and micro iDAC2. 
 
3) *For iDSD micro Firmware v5.2B - Disable Sleep Mode (Smartphone users ONLY)*

This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.2B on the micro iDSD.
The micro iDSD micro will try to recharge while in Sleep Mode (e.g. when connected to a PC).  If connected to a Smartphone which is ‘seen’ as a computer, it will recharge via the Smartphone.
5.2B disables the Sleep Mode within the micro iDSD; hence it will no longer try to recharge during Sleep Mode and flatten the Smartphone’s battery.
Do NOT use 5.2B on any other products other than micro iDSD.
  
  
 For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
  
*1**Background. The DSD DoP Evolution*
DoP DSD is known for inherently creating noise when switching between PCM and DSD-DoP tracks and back. This problem has been addressed at the source by _some_ but not all playback software - hence, much available software when playing DSD, struggles.
  
So we at iFi have taken it upon ourselves to think ‘outside of the (PC) box’ to resolve this _upstream_ issue at the _downstream_ firmware level for all our DSD capable devices. In a process that took over a year, we have resolved the many areas where the differences between DSD-DoP and PCM make switching an annoyance.
  
Additionally, DoP is often cited as offering a lower sound quality. By adjusting core code and the clocking system in the firmware, this point is now moot – as we eliminated the hit on processor utilisation by DoP vs. native DSD playback.
  
So choose native DSD or DoP-DSD with the confidence that either will deliver the same great DSD sound quality and user experience. Just like DSD and PCM, we like one as much as the other. 

     [1] WARNING: Do NOT flash non-iFi products on the XMOS platform with iFi firmware!

  [2] iFi Native DSD-capable DACs so original iDAC excluded so do NOT update using v5.2.


----------



## Azreil24

Does anyone have problems like the one in the attached picture?
  
 https://i.imgsafe.org/f519fc5135.jpg


----------



## iFi audio

azreil24 said:


> Does anyone have problems like the one in the attached picture?
> 
> https://i.imgsafe.org/f519fc5135.jpg


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Just open an STS ticket and we'll measure up the nano iCAN with you.
  
 During the production run, they are produced en mass so it may/may not be within production tolerances.
  
 The techy guys will look after you!


----------



## Azreil24

I did open a ticket and I've been left with the impression that I ask too much, and that the deviation it's in the tolerance range of the iFi company... don't know how, but that big gap through which you can see the inside of the product it's not in my tolerance range. But maybe that is the kind of "quality" I should expect from iFi products. Sorry, but I have higher quality standards.
  
 The sad part is that I went to the retailer to get my unit replaced and the new unit had the same gap. I still hope that this is an isolated case or maybe just a bad lot, but I can't get my unit replaced by the retailer as they can't just start opening product after product just to find one that is not flawed.
  
 The units I have seen in reviews didn't have this problem with the RCA's. My unit's deviation is so wide that my RCA's cable plugs are scratched by the case of the Nano, as they have locking barrels (they are RAMM Audio plugs), every time I screw/unscrew them.
  
 Kind of disappointed with the quality and the support until now. I still hope that I would get some help and get my unit replaced with one that has at least a tolerable degree of deviation.


----------



## iFi audio

azreil24 said:


> I did open a ticket and I've been left with the impression that I ask too much, and that the deviation it's in the tolerance range of the iFi company... don't know how, but that big gap through which you can see the inside of the product it's not in my tolerance range. But maybe that is the kind of "quality" I should expect from iFi products. Sorry, but I have higher quality standards.
> 
> The sad part is that I went to the retailer to get my unit replaced and the new unit had the same gap. I still hope that this is an isolated case or maybe just a bad lot, but I can't get my unit replaced by the retailer as they can't just start opening product after product just to find one that is not flawed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You can PM us with the dealer info and your name and someone will look into it or add the info to the STS.
  
 In the past, we have come across connectors that are very large that bent the RCA connectors away.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Azreil24

I PM'ed you all the details.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Azreil24

So, just so that others that might have the same problem as me, it's my fault that I have high standards and that I want a device for which I don't have to force the cable when connecting it to the Nano. The deviation is in "normal" limits for the nano, even tough, as I said, you have to force the plugs into the RCA connectors, forcing that in time might even break the RCA connectors in the Nano, thing that would probably be considered customer induced damage and get my warranty void, and all of this just because of the bad craftsmanship and low QC standards.
  
 Well, for me it's the first and last iFi product, and not for the defective unit, as this can happen to any product no matter the maker, it's understandable, but for the support, that simply refuses to acknowledge that this is a problem and it's not in normal deviation standards.
  
 Just for the sake of it, the first photo is a Nano with a normal RCA deviation, so small you can't even notice it and don't need to force the cable in, and in the second it's my unit...
  
 1. https://i.imgsafe.org/153252c89a.jpg
  
 2. https://i.imgsafe.org/f519fc5135.jpg


----------



## technobear

azreil24 said:


> So, just so that others that might have the same problem as me, it's my fault that I have high standards and that I want a device for which I don't have to force the cable when connecting it to the Nano. The deviation is in "normal" limits for the nano, even tough, as I said, you have to force the plugs into the RCA connectors, forcing that in time might even break the RCA connectors in the Nano, thing that would probably be considered customer induced damage and get my warranty void, and all of this just because of the bad craftsmanship and low QC standards.
> 
> Well, for me it's the first and last iFi product, and not for the defective unit, as this can happen to any product no matter the maker, it's understandable, but for the support, that simply refuses to acknowledge that this is a problem and it's not in normal deviation standards.
> 
> ...




No sympathy here. You are using an inappropriate RCA cable with a $200 DAC/amp and expecting the world to jump because of a problem of your own making.


----------



## tf1216

Which RCA cables are you using? The ones that came with the iDSD?


----------



## technobear

tf1216 said:


> Which RCA cables are you using? The ones that came with the iDSD?







azreil24 said:


> I did open a ticket and I've been left with the impression that I ask too much, and that the deviation it's in the tolerance range of the iFi company... don't know how, but that big gap through which you can see the inside of the product it's not in my tolerance range. But maybe that is the kind of "quality" I should expect from iFi products. Sorry, but I have higher quality standards.
> 
> The sad part is that I went to the retailer to get my unit replaced and the new unit had the same gap. I still hope that this is an isolated case or maybe just a bad lot, but I can't get my unit replaced by the retailer as they can't just start opening product after product just to find one that is not flawed.
> 
> ...




Seek and ye shall find


----------



## Azreil24

technobear said:


> No sympathy here. You are using an inappropriate RCA cable with a $200 DAC/amp and expecting the world to jump because of a problem of your own making.


 
  
 I'm using 50 euros worth of RAMM Audio RCA plugs. They are normal in shape and small, not even as big as the Audioquest ones. Don't know what you understand from "inappropriate RCA cable". Lol. And you start judging me although you don't even know me... nice... And no, didn't look for your sympathy mate, made me laugh there, just wanted to let people know that there can be units with problems, especially cause it costs 200$. I have used other devices with similar designed RCA housings and didn't have any problems with the RAMM Audio plugs, only with the Nano.
  


tf1216 said:


> Which RCA cables are you using? The ones that came with the iDSD?


 
  
 I used the one that came with the Nano, that cable has RCA plugs with shorter than normal barrel so there wasn't much trouble there, but I needed a longer cable and why not, of a better quality. So now I'm using a custom made one, with Mogami cables + RAMM Audio RCA plugs (the Silver & Rhodium version) which improved the sound even, but now I have the problem that I wrote above. It's easy to see to problem from the 2 pictures. I would have replaced the unit without problems. I know I'm a perfectionist, but this is the first time that a customer support says that I have too higher standards...
  
 Anyhow, the post wasn't with the purpose of asking for sympathy, just wanted to let people know of the problems that can rise.


----------



## technobear

azreil24 said:


> I'm using *50 euros worth of RAMM Audio RCA plugs*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I rest my case :rolleyes:

50 Euro plugs on a 200 Euro DAC.amp 

Most people will be using cables with this $200 DAC/amp where the plugs cost maybe 5 Euros.

I love the idea that you're a perfectionist. If you're expecting perfection in a DAC/amp for 200 Euros and yet are prepared to waste 50 Euros on plugs that are entirely unsuitable, you are a long way from perfection there.

Come back to us when you have a 2000 Euro DAC/amp and then tell us how much difference your plugs make.


----------



## Azreil24

Don't know and don't care what is your frustration, but I think that no matter the price the product should offer a decent level of quality. If you take any **** you buy as is, your problem mate, but because of people like you we have problems like this one regarding quality or products. Back in the day when you payed more, you got more quality, be it build quality or features. Nowadays you pay 1.000 euros for a monitor and you get lots of dead pixels, loads of BLB and other problems. People like you would just take it as is, I don't. If you don't see the problem in the picture of my Nano unit, guess that proves my point.
  
 You got a problem with the plugs, lol. They are way better then the ones from the cable that came with the nano, but for you they are still "inappropriate". Wth are "appropriate" plugs for you? The plugs that are on the cable that came in the box even has larger plugs, but as I said, are shorter in length, so that it won't reach the aluminum case, probably just to avoid the problems I have, but as you can see, normal plugs do have a problem when the RCA connector has so much deviation from it's center.


----------



## rickyleelee

Bro, those are the exact same rca ports on the nano dsd. You have to kinda push them in they dont glide in or that would mean they are loose and faulty. have you unlocked your loackabke rca barrels. Sorry to ask a dumb question.


----------



## Azreil24

rickyleelee said:


> Bro, those are the exact same rca ports on the nano dsd. You have to kinda push them in they don't glide in or that would mean they are loose and faulty. have you unlocked your loackabke rca barrels. Sorry to ask a dumb question.


 

 Probably you wanted to quote me  It's not a dumb question, and yes, I have unlocked the barrels first before inserting them. I'll post a picture tonight with the cables inserted to see the difference


----------



## rickyleelee

i see what is your thing. suggest you try the cable in the nano box. does it do the same?


----------



## Azreil24

Nope, as it has shorter barrels and don't reach the aluminum circles around the Nano's RCA connectors.


----------



## rickyleelee

What did ramm say? As they are also at least some responsible for there connectors. just my thought


----------



## iFi audio

*iFi Quad DSD Sampler Album – Native DSD Music* 
  
We would like to thank our very kind friends at NativeDSDMusic.
  
To celebrate the launch of the Pro iCAN, they have offered this very special ‘sampler’ recorded in dsd256 (natively) for all our readers.
  
http://blog.nativedsd.com/nativedsd-presents-ifi-quad-dsd-sampler-album/
  
https://nativedsdpresents.nativedsd.com/albums/NDSD002-ifi-quad-dsd-sampler-album
  
 The coupon code *QuadDSD*
  
 The code is valid for three weeks only. The code gives a *100% discount. *
  
The music is as follows:
  
Track 1: Groovy and hypnotising percussion music..
Album & Artist:
• Yarlung Records: YAR 15195DSD – Smoke & Mirrors Percussion Ensemble
DSD Track:
• Vanish – track 1 - Udacrep Akubrad (Dorman) 8:41
  
Track 2: Jazz vocals and guitar, to dream away..
Album & Artist:
• Just Listen: JL002 – Thomas & Eva
DSD Track:
• 8 Ensembles in 1 Bit - track 5 - Early Autumn (Herman) 2:47
  
Track3 : Bach's famous Cello Suite, what a genius..
Album & Artist:
• Navis Classics: NC15003 - Joachim Eijlander
DSD Track:
• Bach: Cello Suites - track 1 - Prelude (Bach) 2:33
  
Track 4: 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - Waltz with Chopin's wonderful piano music..
Album & Artist
• Eudora Records: EUDDR 1402 - Josep Colom
DSD Track:
• Dialogue: Mozart & Chopin – track 10 - Waltz in A Minor, Op. 34, No. 2
(Chopin) 5:58
  
  
Enjoy the tunes natively on your Stereo50, micro iDSD, micro iDAC2, nano iDSD!
  
Thank you very much NativeDSDMusic!
NativeDSD.com


----------



## technobear

rickyleelee said:


> What did ramm say? As they are also at least some responsible for there connectors. just my thought




It seems to me the problem is that the nano iDSD has recessed RCA sockets and RCA plugs with locking collars (or large collars in general) are not suitable for recessed RCA sockets.

That's the basic physical problem, disregarding whether very expensive rhodium plated RCA plugs are sensible in the context of a $200 DAC/amp.

Edit: having said that, I do in fact agree that the sockets in the photo are a little more wayward than I would like to see even at this price point.


----------



## Azreil24

That's what I was trying to say. Having the recessed sockets and the ofcenter RCA connectors it's the problem 

The "recessed" part didn't come to mind 

This is the difference between the custom cable and the cable that came with the Nano.


----------



## johncarm

I've been using my iFi Nano for a while with a Windows 7 laptop through a USB 2.0 port. Recently I got a Windows 10 laptop with 2 USB 3.0 ports, and one USB-C port. I'm using the Nano with a USB 3.0 port. There is something wrong with the sound on this Windows 10 laptop. It's brighter, but in a way that sounds wrong. It's most noticeable on classical recordings with a lot of massed strings... there is a band in the very high frequencies, probably 10K, that is exaggerated. It's a kind of "whooshing" noise that is clearly part of the string sound but doesn't sound "integrated" with the midrange of the strings, if you know what I mean. Also any hiss in the recordings, if they are from analog masters, is very exaggerated. 

I don't know why this is happening. Could it be the USB 3.0 ports? Could it be Windows 10?

I'm using Foobar, set to memory playback, with the ASIO interface. I've only tested 16 bit / 44.1 KHz playback so far. The sound files are on an external drive plugged into the other USB 3.0 port.


----------



## technobear

johncarm said:


> I've been using my iFi Nano for a while with a Windows 7 laptop through a USB 2.0 port. Recently I got a Windows 10 laptop with 2 USB 3.0 ports, and one USB-C port. I'm using the Nano with a USB 3.0 port. There is something wrong with the sound on this Windows 10 laptop. It's brighter, but in a way that sounds wrong. It's most noticeable on classical recordings with a lot of massed strings... there is a band in the very high frequencies, probably 10K, that is exaggerated. It's a kind of "whooshing" noise that is clearly part of the string sound but doesn't sound "integrated" with the midrange of the strings, if you know what I mean. Also any hiss in the recordings, if they are from analog masters, is very exaggerated.
> 
> I don't know why this is happening. Could it be the USB 3.0 ports? Could it be Windows 10?
> 
> I'm using Foobar, set to memory playback, with the ASIO interface. I've only tested 16 bit / 44.1 KHz playback so far. The sound files are on an external drive plugged into the other USB 3.0 port.





Does it still happen if you play music from the internal drive (external drive disconnected)?

Does it still happen if you don't use memory playback?

An iPurifier2 might solve it.


----------



## iFi audio

johncarm said:


> I've been using my iFi Nano for a while with a Windows 7 laptop through a USB 2.0 port. Recently I got a Windows 10 laptop with 2 USB 3.0 ports, and one USB-C port. I'm using the Nano with a USB 3.0 port. There is something wrong with the sound on this Windows 10 laptop. It's brighter, but in a way that sounds wrong. It's most noticeable on classical recordings with a lot of massed strings... there is a band in the very high frequencies, probably 10K, that is exaggerated. It's a kind of "whooshing" noise that is clearly part of the string sound but doesn't sound "integrated" with the midrange of the strings, if you know what I mean. Also any hiss in the recordings, if they are from analog masters, is very exaggerated.
> 
> I don't know why this is happening. Could it be the USB 3.0 ports? Could it be Windows 10?
> 
> I'm using Foobar, set to memory playback, with the ASIO interface. I've only tested 16 bit / 44.1 KHz playback so far. The sound files are on an external drive plugged into the other USB 3.0 port.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 A lot of variables at play here. You have to narrow down using trial & error first to see where you issue is.


----------



## technobear

Once you've eliminated the external drive and the memory playback (which is an experimental feature), you also need to eliminate the USB cable. Try a different one.


----------



## johncarm

technobear said:


> Once you've eliminated the external drive and the memory playback (which is an experimental feature), you also need to eliminate the USB cable. Try a different one.




It's fixed. It seems to be the memory playback. I listened more carefully to the old laptop with a better amp, also with Foobar set to memory play, and this was actually present there. But with the new laptop is is more audible because there is better high-frequency extension. That's a good thing, because it's giving me more color and detail, with no downside, now that I switched off memory playback. Maybe the USB 3.0 ports are better than USB 2.0? In any case this is best the Nano has ever sounded! Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

_*NativeDSD's 20% discount on the previous Quad DSD tracks - Album version!*

 The overwhelming wave of feedback about this first ever Quad DSD (256fs) Sampler Album included many compliments about the choice of tracks! The percussion ensemble on track 1, the voice/guitar jazz duo on track 2, the baroque solo cellist on track 3 and the classical pianist on track 4... Well, guess what? _

*Those 4 Quad DSD albums *on which those 4 tracks can be found are now available with a *20% discount!*

Once *any or all album(s) *are in your cart, apply the *coupon code: *4xQUAD


_** Valid through June 30th, on the Quad DSD (256fs) downloads ** __Any DSD 256fs purchase generates the free option to download the Double DSD (128fs) and DSD (64fs) versions as well!_


*1). Smoke & Mirrors - Vanish*

by: Yarlung Records (YAR15195)
https://yarlungrecords.nativedsd.com/albums/smoke-mirrors-vanish


  


*2). 8 Ensembles in 1 Bit*
by: Just Listen (JL002)
https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/jl0028-ensembles-in-1-bit
  

  

*3). Bach Cello Suites (Vol. 1)*
by: Navis Classics (NC15003)
https://navisclassics.nativedsd.com/albums/NC15003-bach-cello-suites-vol-1


  

*4). Dialogue (Mozart & Chopin)*
by: Eudora Records (EUDDR1402)
https://eudora.nativedsd.com/albums/mozart-chopin-dialogue


----------



## johncarm

Is there any recommendation from iFi about the ASIO buffer settings? I seem to get more high frequency extension on lower latency settings and smaller buffer settings, but I haven't tried every combination, nor have I tried things like low latency and large buffers or vice versa. I do get some clicks/pops on the Low Latency setting.


----------



## iFi audio

johncarm said:


> Is there any recommendation from iFi about the ASIO buffer settings? I seem to get more high frequency extension on lower latency settings and smaller buffer settings, but I haven't tried every combination, nor have I tried things like low latency and large buffers or vice versa. I do get some clicks/pops on the Low Latency setting.


 
  
 Hi.
  
 We are currently testing the new driver but have held back its release as we wish to be extra, extra thorough before we release it. We planned to release it last week. In due course you will find it has built-in auto configuration. So no need for manual setup on each and every computer (as they vary).
  
 Keep a look out for it!
  
 Thanks.


----------



## johncarm

This question is about my Nano/iUSB setup, and I wanted to get a response from Mr. iFi who I know is subscribed to this thread.
  
 I'm now using my Nano with the iUSB 3.0.
  
 I am using a very good cable from the iUSB to the Nano (it's a custom job--not a well-known brand--but it bested a number of $600 cables I tested when used from the Nano to the laptop directly).
  
 I have a question about the USB input connector on the iUSB. It is larger than usual, and the cable that comes with the iUSB fits it. What is different about that connector and cable? Would the iFi Mercury improve on it? How about the Gemini? Do the Mercury and Gemini have that extra large B-type input, or does that matter?


----------



## technobear

johncarm said:


> This question is about my Nano/iUSB setup, and I wanted to get a response from Mr. iFi who I know is subscribed to this thread.
> 
> I'm now using my Nano with the iUSB 3.0.
> 
> ...




You don't need an answer from iFi. This is simple and well known.

The connector on the back of the iUSB3.0 is a USB 3.0 B socket. 

It is compatible with USB 3.0 A-B cables.

It is also backwards compatible with USB 2.0 A-B cables like your custom cable and the Mercury and Gemini.


----------



## johncarm

I see. So the short cable that comes with the iUSB 3.0 is a USB 3.0 A-B cable. The question, then, is there a reason to try Gemini or Mercury, or are their specs inferior to any decent USB 3.0 cable?


----------



## technobear

johncarm said:


> I see. So the short cable that comes with the iUSB 3.0 is a USB 3.0 A-B cable. The question, then, is there a reason to try Gemini or Mercury, or are their specs inferior to any decent USB 3.0 cable?




Putting the Gemini on the input side of the iUSB3.0 would be a waste since the 5V power rail is replaced inside the iUSB3.0 anyway.

If you want to use a Gemini then it should go between the iUSB3.0 and the DAC so that it keeps the pristine power and data lines separate all the way to the DAC.

You could use a Mercury on the input side of the iUSB3.0. Technically it measures very well and is a belt-and-braces solution. Whether you will hear a difference between that and any other competent USB cable is unknown. It will depend on how good the DAC, the amp and the headphones actually are.

I have a Gemini and I also have Kimber USB. When using an iPurifier2 (which makes clearly audible and repeatable improvements to the sound) I can hear no difference between these cables. The Gemini sure looks pretty and measures very well but it doesn't translate into a clearly audible improvement in my system. If I had an iUSB3.0 then it might make a difference but that's conjecture at the moment. People with higher grade DACs, amps and headphones might notice the difference but that also is conjecture.


----------



## johncarm

My question is about comparing the short USB 3.0 cable that comes with the iUSB3.0, which presumably is not a premium cable (it wouldn't make sense for iFi to put a lot of money into the included cable) to a premium USB 2.0 cable, in particular the Gemini or Mercury.
  
 I already compared the included USB 3.0 cable to a Cardas Clear, and the included cable was far better. I am not sure what factor is most important. The Cardas was a 2.0 cable, it was much longer, and maybe it's just not a great cable.
  
 Isn't the Gemini usable between the laptop and the iUSB3.0? It would need to be plugged into two of my laptop ports. It seems to me it would still be keeping the data lines separate. Of course, you can debate whether the cable on the input side of the iUSB should make a difference. The iUSB3.0 regenerates the USB data and theoretically would be pretty insensitive to its input data quality. But as I said above, at least cable on the input side of the iUSB3.0 was clearly inferior.
  
 Regarding the quality of my system downstream from the iUSB3.0, my DAC and amp are very good. My DAC is the Nano, but it has a custom modded power supply internally and some RF control. The amp is a custom 12AU7/MOSFET hybrid with an over-the-top power supply. My headphones are the Senneheiser HD650 which are a great match for the amp (in fact, in my experience, they are a great match for a number of different 12AU7/MOSFET hybrids).
  
 John


----------



## technobear

johncarm said:


> Isn't the Gemini usable between the laptop and the iUSB3.0?




Yes, of course it is. I'm just saying it is wasted there. It is needed on the output side of the iUSB3.0 to keep the regenerated data separated from the regenerated power.




johncarm said:


> My headphones are the Senneheiser HD650 which are a great match for the amp (in fact, in my experience, they are a great match for a number of different 12AU7/MOSFET hybrids).




My advice is that you shouldn't be wasting any more money on USB cables until you have some top drawer headphones.


----------



## johncarm

It sounds like you are saying that keeping the data and power separate matters on the DAC side but not on the input side of the iUSB. But I have already discovered that the cable on the input side matters, so I'm not sure why it would be that keeping data and power separate does not matter.
  
 Here is what I have found in general about headphones and cables. They are different types of differences. I own the Audeze LCD-2 and LCD-XC and they certainly have more treble speed and deeper bass than the HD650. That's one kind of difference. USB cables have a "different kind" of difference.. primarily a sense of refinement and musical beauty. If the DAC isn't putting out a refined sound, then no headphone can fix that. It will just annoy you as it reveals the problem.
  
 I think the HD650 with this 12AU7/MOSFET amp is the best amp/headphone combination I own (I own a few other amps too including a Woo WA6 Special Edition). This combination is quite revealing of the refinement that is noticeable as a change between USB cables.
  
 But what I am primarily wondering right now is whether the iUSB stock 3.0 cable is better, in general, on the input side, than an audiophile USB 2.0 cable, in particular the Gemini or Mercury.


----------



## hamachan

johncarm said:


> But what I am primarily wondering right now is whether the iUSB stock 3.0 cable is better, in general, on the input side, than an audiophile USB 2.0 cable, in particular the Gemini or Mercury.


 
 I have borrowed nano iUSB3.0 together with Gemini cable from the agency in Japan a few months ago as their promotion program.  My DAC is micro iDAC2.  I also own nano iDSD but I did not try with nano iUSB3.0.  I tried following two chains;
  
 1. PC > accessory cable (come with iDAC2) > nano iUSB3.0 > accessory cable (come with iUSB3.0) > micro iDAC2

  
 2. PC > accessory cable (come with iDAC2) > nano iUSB3.0 > Gemini cable > micro iDAC2

  
 Impression of the first chain was sharper focus, more visible of the instrument position, more detail, BUT more solid feeling.  The second chain gave me more natural feeling, sharp and detail but smooth.  My conclusion was obvious, nano iUSB3.0 with Gemini is better.


----------



## theaudiologist

hey guys i have 4 things to consider:
  
 chord mojo
 ifi nani idsd
 sennheiser momentum
 sennheiser hd700
  
 can anyone suggest a better dac-headphone combo with these. i didn't put the micro idsd because for that price i could get the better mojo. apparently the mojo has a much higher impedance to drive high impedance headphones, but the nano idsd can only be used as a DAC. so even if i want to buy a low impedance headphone to go with the mojo (because of my money) the mojo is futureproof so i can always get the hd700 anytime


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> i didn't put the micro idsd because for that price i could get the better mojo.




That is very much a matter of opinion and preference. Both have their pros and cons.




theaudiologist said:


> apparently the mojo has a much higher impedance




That is generally regarded as a bad thing.




theaudiologist said:


> but the nano idsd can only be used as a DAC




Not true. It has a headphone socket and can muster 1.65V into high impedance cans. That's pretty loud into a decent can like the T1.




theaudiologist said:


> so even if i want to buy a low impedance headphone to go with the mojo (because of my money) the mojo is futureproof so i can always get the hd700 anytime




The micro iDSD is the future proof one as it can drive any headphone out there.


----------



## theaudiologist

mojo specs of output:

TECHNICAL SPECS:







Output Power @ 1kHz






600 ohms 35mW






8 ohms 720mW






Output Impedance: 0.075 ohms






Dynamic Range: 125dB






THD @ 3v - 0.00017%
  

ifi nano idsd output:

 


Dynamic Range:>104dBTHD &N (35mW)< 0.005%THD &N (Line)< 0.005%Output Power (16R):> 130mWOutput Voltage:>1.65V (>100Ω)Output ImpedanceZout):<1ΩPower Consumption:< 3W (charging battery and playback together)
  
  
 is the mojo drastically better and has more power to drive headphones? or is the nano idsd enough and can drive any headphone? and how is the sound? i heard the nano is a little bright


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> mojo specs of output:
> 
> 
> TECHNICAL SPECS:
> ...




So your earlier statement was incorrect then. The Mojo does not have high [output] impedance. It has very low impedance so I don't know where you got the previous idea from. In fact that spec is very good. Anything less than 1 ohm is generally considered good. 

There are exceptions to this rule. Some folks say that some high impedance cans sound better from a high impedance source. This isn't a universal view though.

The nano iDSD will struggle to get an HD700 to high volumes. It's really designed for portable cans and IEMs.

If HD700 is the goal, then it's between Mojo and micro iDSD. If you search the forum you will find many comparisons of the two. It comes down to a matter of taste really.


----------



## theaudiologist

so the nano idsd is useless then? well i guess i'll go with the micro. (it also has rca for speakers unlike the mojo). but can you tell me why the nano isn't enough? and btw what is the iusb and idac for? do i need the iusb?


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> so the nano idsd is useless then? well i guess i'll go with the micro. (it also has rca for speakers unlike the mojo). but can you tell me why the nano isn't enough? and btw what is the iusb and idac for? do i need the iusb?




What is the transport here? 

Is this a portable system or a desktop system or what?


As for the nano iDSD, it can put out 1.65V to the HD700 which is a 150 ohm can. Using Ohm's law (you remember that from physics lessons I hope), the nano will be able to put about 18 mW maximum into the HD700. Sennheiser quote a sensitivity of 105dB for the HD700 but don't specify how that is measured. Most manufacturers specify sound pressure level at 1mW input but I know that Sennheiser has differed from this convention in the past. If it is 105 dB/mW, then the nano will drive the HD700 to about 117dB. That is actually very loud. It might be all you need. (Does anyone know if the HD700 is really a 105dB can?)


The iUSB3.0 is not essential. It is an enhancement for later on.

The iDAC and iDAC2 are desktop versions of the iDSD. They have no battery.


----------



## theaudiologist

oh ok thanks. and some more stupid questions:
  
 1)if you have a micro idsd, can you tell me what the xbass and 3d features are and do they really improve the sound?
  
 2)is DSD512 / 768kHz and 2x DXD really useful or just a waste?
  
 3) are the stock cables good (USB, RCA) or do i need to buy better ones?
  
 4) I figured out the hd 700's are 105dB SPL/V. so can the nano drive the hd 700s? if it can drive the hd 700's really loud, what about the hd600 and hd650 just in case i don't have the money for the hd 700's?
  
 5) what are the iCan's for?


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> 1)if you have a micro idsd, can you tell me what the xbass and 3d features are and do they really improve the sound?




What they are: http://ifi-audio.com/

They don't improve the sound. They modify it.




theaudiologist said:


> 2)is DSD512 / 768kHz and 2x DXD really useful or just a waste?




There is no (or very little) material available at these sample rates. However you can use software players which upsample and/or convert to these rates. Some people feel this is worthwhile. 

In any case the DAC in the iDSD (and the iDAC2) is a very good one.




theaudiologist said:


> 3) are the stock cables good (USB, RCA) or do i need to buy better ones?




They are fine to start with. There are other better enhancements to consider before worrying about the cables. The iPurifier2 (or nano iUSB3.0) should be top of the list.




theaudiologist said:


> 4) I figured out the hd 700's are 105dB SPL/V. so can the nano drive the hd 700s? if it can drive the hd 700's really loud, what about the hd600 and hd650 just in case i don't have the money for the hd 700's?




Ah. That is useful information. So the nano iDSD's 1.65V will get the HD700 to a little over 108dB. That's about the sound level of a decent small monitor speaker at 1m. It will be quite loud but it won't be a full orchestra in full swing.

The HD650 and HD600 are harder to drive than the HD700. For starters they are 300 ohm so our 1.65V will only drive half as much current into them thereby halving the power. Then they are also less efficient.

The micro iDSD has way more power than is needed for any of these cans.




theaudiologist said:


> 5) what are the iCan's for?




See: http://ifi-audio.com/

They are headphone amps for use with other DACs or as an enhancement to the iFi DACs.


----------



## theaudiologist

108dB volume? if so that's pretty loud...i don't know what you mean by it wont drive an orchestra....it's actually ear-deafening.


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> 108dB volume? if so that's pretty loud...i don't know what you mean by it wont drive an orchestra....it's actually ear-deafening.




An orchestra in full flight can hit 120dB peaks.

We're not talking continuous sound pressure levels here. It's the peaks we are interested in for high fidelity. We don't want to chop them off. It doesn't sound good.

I agree with you that 108dB is already too loud but there are many people here who seem to think they need more.


----------



## theaudiologist

ok if it can drive the hd 700s at 108dB how loud will it drive the hd 600 and 650?


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> ok if it can drive the hd 700s at 108dB how loud will it drive the hd 600 and 650?




I don't have the data to calculate it and I don't have time to get it today. Sorry.


----------



## iFi audio

theaudiologist said:


> ok if it can drive the hd 700s at 108dB how loud will it drive the hd 600 and 650?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Open an STS and we'll send you the headphone excel and you can input your own figures and get a 'feel' of how loud each combination goes to.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## theaudiologist

what's an sts?


----------



## tf1216

STS is iFi Audio's support ticket system. : )


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> what's an sts?




http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## theaudiologist

apparently it can drive the HD600's up to 105dB (due to its high sensitivity). is that loud enough? will i be able to hear all the details?


----------



## iFi audio

theaudiologist said:


> apparently it can drive the HD600's up to 105dB (due to its high sensitivity). is that loud enough? will i be able to hear all the details?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 It depends on how your hearing is. Only you can answer that one.
  
 But to give you an idea:
  

*Sound sources (noise)
 Examples with distance*
  *   Sound pressure   
 Level **L**p dB SPL*
   Jet aircraft, 50 m away*140* Threshold of pain*130* Threshold of discomfort*120* Chainsaw, 1 m distance*110* Disco, 1 m from speaker*100* Diesel truck, 10 m away*90* Kerbside of busy road, 5 m*80* Vacuum cleaner, distance 1 m *70* Conversational speech, 1 m*60* Average home*50* Quiet library*40* Quiet bedroom at night*30* Background in TV studio*20* Rustling leaves in the distance*10* *Hearing threshold** 0*
  
 http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm


----------



## theaudiologist

i don't mind volume itself, but does having a lower volume reduce the ability to hear some instruments and thus reduce quality? i heard orchestras go up to 150dB


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> i heard orchestras go up to 150dB




Can I ask where you heard this as I have only ever heard a figure of 120dB and that is only an extreme peak with everything playing at once?


----------



## theaudiologist

oh sorry. i must have gotten your previous comment wrong, where you said 120dB is an orchestra at full swing and 108dB is not enough in order to hear all the peaks in sound.
  
 actually i saw a picture which said symphonic music peak is 120-137dB.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Can I ask where you heard this as I have only ever heard a figure of 120dB and that is only an extreme peak with everything playing at once?


 
  
 Yes, 120dB is the correct figure, not 150dB.


----------



## johncarm

I'm getting some quite a lot of tonal balance change in the Nano depending on how I drive it. 
  
 For instance, it is much brighter out of USB 3.0 output ports. I am comparing two laptops that have USB 2.0 ports to three laptops that have USB 3.0 ports. It is always brighter with USB 3.0. As far as I know all Foobar settings are the same, and I'm using the same external USB drive to hold the music. I prefer the tonal balance with the USB 2.0 ports, but that is not an option with my current laptops.
  
 It is MUCH brighter with the iUSB 3.0 compared to connecting it straight to a USB 3.0 port on the laptop. Unusable, it is so bright.
  
 It is also brighter with the UpTone Regen compared to hooking straight to a USB 3.0 port.
  
 I wanted to use the Regen, not primarily for the "regeneration", but just because it can provide a constant 5V clean power. I would like to keep the Nano powered at all times, even when my laptop is connected, and I would like an option for good sound even when I'm not using the Nano on its battery.
  
 However, the Regen is pretty much unusuable because the sound is so bright.
  
 Any idea why the Nano changes tonal balance so much depending on how it is driven?


----------



## johncarm

I recently got a Dell XPS laptop. I downloaded and installed the iFi driver.
  
 My Nano sounds VERY harsh and piercing with this laptop. It sounds fine on my MSI laptop. To my knowledge the configuration is the same. I believe the same version of the driver (2.26) is installed on both. I believe I'm using the same setting in Foobar2000. Any idea what to look for?


----------



## walfredo

maczh2002 said:


> Does anyone face the same problem as i do?
> 
> Current rig:
> 
> ...


 
  
 So... I am having the exact same problem. :-/
  
 Did using the 3.5mm out woked for you,  *maczh2002?*


----------



## maczh2002

walfredo said:


> So... I am having the exact same problem. :-/
> 
> Did using the 3.5mm out woked for you,  *maczh2002?*




Yeah the 3.5mm worked. But I got tempted and upgraded to the micro idsd + iCan se pair!


----------



## walfredo

maczh2002 said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > So... I am having the exact same problem. :-/
> ...


 
  





  
 How do you compare?


----------



## maczh2002

walfredo said:


> How do you compare?




Im using zmf x vibros, on the nano stack the soundstage was less expansive. 

It is also more analog sounding with the micro stack.


----------



## walfredo

maczh2002 said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > How do you compare?
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.  I got the ifi micro ican for my main rig.  Looking forward to give it a try.


----------



## Aradea

Guys how is the iDSD performs as a DAC only? I don't know the specific BB chip that it uses.
Love if there is a comparison with schiit's modi


----------



## iFi audio

aradea said:


> Guys how is the iDSD performs as a DAC only? I don't know the specific BB chip that it uses.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-and-the-new-firmware-flavours-are-here-page-138#post_10383226
  
 Technical Note 3: explains the Burr-Brown in there.Best read for yourself.


----------



## Aradea

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-and-the-new-firmware-flavours-are-here-page-138#post_10383226
> 
> Technical Note 3: explains the Burr-Brown in there.Best read for yourself.




Hi Ifi,

When we are talking about the DAC section ONLY, is the Nano comparable to the Micro? I mean in terms of design, components, etc. 
*Not sure if you're allowed to answer this


----------



## MLGrado

aradea said:


> Hi Ifi,
> 
> When we are talking about the DAC section ONLY, is the Nano comparable to the Micro? I mean in terms of design, components, etc.
> *Not sure if you're allowed to answer this





Well, I can't answer as fully as iFI, but, speaking of the DAC only, it is the same chip but the nano is not in differential configuration. So it's a single DAC versus two. So the nano theoretically won't achieve the same dynamic range. But both use the Burr Brown DSD1793 chip. 

Also, the only filters offered on the Nano are for linear and minimum phase. The Micro adds a bit perfect filter that is a result of iFi custom implementation of the chip. Not available in the Nano.

But beyond the chip itself the Micro has more investment in the analog stages vs the Nano. 

I loved my nano. It's around here somewhere. I put it up when I bricked it installing beta firmware way back when. For the money, you will not find a better DAC. 

Especially for DSD. And that includes the DSD only from the Amerivan company with a Norse affection. Just not in the same league as the Nano.


----------



## MLGrado

^^^

I should ad by filters I was talking about the PCM filters.

As far as DSD filters, the Nano has two options and the Micro has three. Both use the same onboard FIR filter in the DSD1793 chip for DSD conversion.


----------



## iFi audio

aradea said:


> Hi Ifi,
> 
> When we are talking about the DAC section ONLY, is the Nano comparable to the Micro? I mean in terms of design, components, etc.
> *Not sure if you're allowed to answer this


 
  
 All use the Burr-Brown but different levels of execution - like BMW 1, 3 and 5 series.
  
 You really have to audition for yourself as what one person hears may/may not be to another's liking.
  
 Try it for yourself before you buy.


----------



## theaudiologist

does the nano idsd pair well with the ATH-MSR7's?


----------



## iFi audio

theaudiologist said:


> does the nano idsd pair well with the ATH-MSR7's?


 
  
 We do shows with them as Audio Technica (UK) are friends of ours. And no customer has complained!
  
 Enjoy the Music said this:
  
*"H*ere's a super duper sneak peek at the iFi Audio's upcoming iDAC 2 ($350) that is a combo DAC and headphone amp. This sweet unit handles DSD256 and PCM 384kHz. Adjustable output, runs Class A and all the great stuff you expect from this innovative company. Output is 350mW and RCA output to feed an external amplifier or powered speakers is industry standard 2V. Lucky me gave it a listen via the Audio Technica ATH-MSR7 ($200) and it sounded full, natural with plenty of drive with ease. Me likeee a lot!"
  
 Though as always, try for yourself first.


----------



## PREDATOR

predator said:


> Thank you for your warm welcome h1f1add1cted.
> I guess I'll have to keep it on the desk and plug/unplug the headphones by my need. Build quality seems very good, I hope that this process won't kill the 3.5 mm plug in 2-3 years.


 
  
 I'm very disappointed about this issue with the RCA output, when only one channel works after unplugging the jack. It happend exactly what I was afraid of.
 I sprayed some electrical contact cleaner inside the jack socket and it worked without a problem for 2 or 3 weeks, now the problem is back.
 That spring mechanism really sucks.


----------



## iFi audio

predator said:


> I'm very disappointed about this issue with the RCA output, when only one channel works after unplugging the jack. It happend exactly what I was afraid of.
> I sprayed some electrical contact cleaner inside the jack socket and it worked without a problem for 2 or 3 weeks, now the problem is back.
> That spring mechanism really sucks.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Just open an STS here:
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 We'll look into it for you.


----------



## PREDATOR

Hi iFi audio,
  
 Thank you for the reply. Can you tell me please if this problem has been fixed by your engineers?
 If not, I will not open an STS because my unit will be replaced with another one, but the problem will arrive soon because I plug/unplug the jack connector at least twice a day.
 The best solution is to buy an jack to RCA adapter, then unplug my headphones and plug the jack for my stereo amplifier. What a joy...


----------



## iFi audio

predator said:


> Hi iFi audio,
> 
> Thank you for the reply. Can you tell me please if this problem has been fixed by your engineers?
> If not, I will not open an STS because my unit will be replaced with another one, but the problem will arrive soon because I plug/unplug the jack connector at least twice a day.
> The best solution is to buy an jack to RCA adapter, then unplug my headphones and plug the jack for my stereo amplifier. What a joy...


 
  
 The 3.5mm headphone jack is made in the hundred of thousands. As we dont repair but replace, you'll receive a new pcb with a new 3.5mm jack.  That should be fine because we do shows and have demo units going out a lot. There will always be headphone jacks (like batteries) that do stop working as they should as there are 'one or two' nano DSDs in the field. The guys will look into this for you.


----------



## thrand1

Hi all,
  
 I am narrowing down potential purchase options for <$500 to use with an iPhone 6S at work and as a USB/SPDIF converter at home. I have considered (aside from nano) the Micro iDSD, the Chord Mojo (but this is over budget, would have to find it used), and the Oppo HA-2. I am using this with Shure IEMs (SE425).
  
 I don't need the bruising power of the Micro iDSD, but the iEMatch capabilities would eliminate any concern (I hope) of hissing with IEMs. I have seen the occasional report from users of hissing with the Nano iDSD and reports that due to the power capability of the Nano that not much of the volume control can be used. I took note of iFi's recent release of the external iEMatch module which could be paired with the Nano iDSD for a price approximately half of the Micro iDSD.
  
 Does anyone have any insights on what they would do? The Micro would be sort of a "future proof" solution, especially if adding different/less efficient headphones, but I wonder how efficient it would be to get that product but then use it with IEMs. I am planning to transport this product from home to work, with no real use "on the go" in a pants pocket.
  
 Any recommendations or insights from IEM users or anyone else? Thanks in advance!
  
 -Tyler


----------



## technobear

thrand1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am narrowing down potential purchase options for <$500 to use with an iPhone 6S at work and as a USB/SPDIF converter at home. I have considered (aside from nano) the Micro iDSD, the Chord Mojo (but this is over budget, would have to find it used), and the Oppo HA-2. I am using this with Shure IEMs (SE425).
> 
> ...




At home: micro iLink

At work: Dragonfly Red


----------



## iFi audio

Happy Monday folks!
  
 We just want to let you all know that we are running a tour for our flagship Pro iCAN. If you're interested in spending some time with the Pro iCAN, definitely check out the thread HERE! 
  
 If not, no worries! We've also announced some exciting news for RMAF and the upcoming months, so be sure to check it out!
  
 Here's a quick sneak peek!


----------



## rickyleelee

thrand1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am narrowing down potential purchase options for <$500 to use with an iPhone 6S at work and as a USB/SPDIF converter at home. I have considered (aside from nano) the Micro iDSD, the Chord Mojo (but this is over budget, would have to find it used), and the Oppo HA-2. I am using this with Shure IEMs (SE425).
> 
> ...




you can get the mojo here in Asia discounted for usd350. You can also find it on massdrop. for this price, it is worth looking at. like the hugo, the new price is qute high.


----------



## Aradea

rickyleelee said:


> you can get the mojo here in Asia discounted for usd350. You can also find it on massdrop. for this price, it is worth looking at. like the hugo, the new price is qute high.



Exactly where can I find a chord mojo for $350?


----------



## Topspin70

Hi new Nano user here seeking a little help: the unit is connected to my MAC and the starting volume was so loud it nearly blew out my ear drums (volume knob on device is barely pass the on-click). After a while it settled down to the volume I set. This happens whether I'm playing through Roon or via Tidal app. Any idea what's happening? Sorry if this has been covered in earlier posts. My ears are still ringing from the ordeal!


----------



## SubSTI

topspin70 said:


> Hi new Nano user here seeking a little help: the unit is connected to my MAC and the starting volume was so loud it nearly blew out my ear drums (volume knob on device is barely pass the on-click). After a while it settled down to the volume I set. This happens whether I'm playing through Roon or via Tidal app. Any idea what's happening? Sorry if this has been covered in earlier posts. My ears are still ringing from the ordeal!


 
 I am not a Mac user but this happens to me occasionally when attaching it to Android via USB OTG as well, haven't figured out what is triggering this behavior.


----------



## Topspin70

substi said:


> I am not a Mac user but this happens to me occasionally when attaching it to Android via USB OTG as well, haven't figured out what is triggering this behavior.




Interestingly this loudness issue happens on my MAC but not when I connect to my iphone. Not yet at least.


----------



## technobear

topspin70 said:


> substi said:
> 
> 
> > I am not a Mac user but this happens to me occasionally when attaching it to Android via USB OTG as well, haven't figured out what is triggering this behavior.
> ...




This sounds like a faulty joint inside the nano iDSD to me, causing an occasional short or open circuit. I can't think how the source could be responsible for this behaviour.

Contact iFi support: http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## Topspin70

technobear said:


> This sounds like a faulty joint inside the nano iDSD to me, causing an occasional short or open circuit. I can't think how the source could be responsible for this behaviour.
> 
> Contact iFi support: http://support.ifi-audio.com/


 
  
 Guess this is unique to my case then. I'll contact them for help.


----------



## Topspin70

I must add though, putting the loudness issue aside which I'm sure can be resolved, I'm absolutely floored by how enjoyable this little portable dac/amp is. Coming from a desktop rig that weighs and costs countless times more, I had kept my expectations at bay, but boy, the iDSD is proving to be totally addictive (as far as my IEMs are concerned at least).


----------



## hisame

I always wonder could iFi release a streamer same as iFi Micro series with similar function like AURALiC Aries Mini.
 Do away with internal HDD and DAC.
 Software compatible with html5 so we can use any device to control it.
 Can connect (wired) to network and external HDD (able to excess HDD over network via html5).
 Output with USB (2.0/3.0) and SPDIF.
 Most important thing fully compatible with iDSD, up to DSD 512, DXD 2x, PCM 768.
  
 Even with AURALiC Aries Mini you have limitations of DSD128, PCM384 and only works with iOS.
 I want something as well build like iFI Micro, works in html5 so it works with any device, and play all the files.


----------



## Triplefun

@hisame
  
 You can always build your own PC and integrate the iFi micro internally. Use a Streacom f5 case with itx mobo and there is space to add the ifi internally against the back wall with the headphone, rca connectors and volume control being externally accessible. You can also add an optional 4TB HDD and optical drive for CD ripping. Configure an i3 6100 with Daphile and you get the functionality you are looking for including native DSD256 upsampling and network attached storage.


----------



## hisame

I know you can build small PC which do the same job.
 Frankly I did build a music server using HP thin client for my friend a few year ago.
 But it looks ugly and big, also give out EM noise.
 These days you can build PC with music server function using a ResberryPi.
 Using per-compiled Unix music server OS.
 The thing is I don't want to go though all these problem still end up with something looks DIY.
 BTW I end up using Fiio X3 with my old iFi iUSB.
  
 I just hope iFi would release one streamer in iFi micro box.
 So I get nicely build, though out board design, power separation and simple software just play music.
 Best of all I can get it off the shelf.


----------



## Triplefun

look at the Streacom f5 case - http://www.streacom.com/products/fc5-od-fanless-chassis/
 also you need more than a raspberry to process dsd256 / dsd512 upsampling
 and with a decent mobo, psu and the right connections you can eliminate the interference
 otherwise you pay big $$$ for the same functionality - see antipodes http://antipodesaudio.com/


----------



## hisame

triplefun said:


> look at the Streacom f5 case - http://www.streacom.com/products/fc5-od-fanless-chassis/
> also you need more than a raspberry to process dsd256 / dsd512 upsampling
> and with a decent mobo, psu and the right connections you can eliminate the interference
> otherwise you pay big $$$ for the same functionality - see antipodes http://antipodesaudio.com/


 
 Actually I have been temped to buy from Antipodes their DS series for years.
 But it has more function then I need the internal DAC and internal HDD plus all the ability for networking and multi-room.
 At one stage Antipodes has plan to release low cost model does not has DAC and HDD.
 But that has been dropped.
 I don't know when my Fiio X3 broken I might get Antipodes DS or Fiio's next DAP maybe it has USB out.
  
 Note: I don't like Fiio's internal DAC it sound sharp.


----------



## ggundars

Hi all,
 I am a new owner of iFi nano iDSD, and just can agree that it sounds great. I use it as a DAC connected to the  Mac Mini and next to a power amp, with original USB and RCA cables.
 Unfortunately, I started to get sporadic playback stops and resets, which sometime coincided with placing my arm close to the iDSD but not even touching it. First blamed vibration and cables, but apparently they were fine. Finally I was able to trace down that this erratic behaviour was clearly dependant on two factors - my arm/palm within 5-10 cm distance from iDSD and … my Icebreaker merino wool t-shirt on myself. Wearing noname cotton one rescued the situation.
 Of course, I am aware about static electricity and the fact that discharge can ruin delicate equipment, but there definitely was no discharge, simply exposure to electric field by approaching hand.  
 So I wonder whether there might be a proper way to connect iDSD to a ground or other means how to protect the device. Wearing antistatic bracelets is out of the question


----------



## iFi audio

ggundars said:


> Hi all,
> I am a new owner of iFi nano iDSD, and just can agree that it sounds great. I use it as a DAC connected to the  Mac Mini and next to a power amp, with original USB and RCA cables.
> Unfortunately, I started to get sporadic playback stops and resets, which sometime coincided with placing my arm close to the iDSD but not even touching it. First blamed vibration and cables, but apparently they were fine. Finally I was able to trace down that this erratic behaviour was clearly dependant on two factors - my arm/palm within 5-10 cm distance from iDSD and … my Icebreaker merino wool t-shirt on myself. Wearing noname cotton one rescued the situation.
> Of course, I am aware about static electricity and the fact that discharge can ruin delicate equipment, but there definitely was no discharge, simply exposure to electric field by approaching hand.
> So I wonder whether there might be a proper way to connect iDSD to a ground or other means how to protect the device. Wearing antistatic bracelets is out of the question


 
 Please use our STS form, which can be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 That's the shortest way of handling this matter.


----------



## iFi audio

*Nano iDSD ‘LE’* *Pocket Rocket.* 
Southport, UK – 9th December 2016
  
*Small, dark and handsome*
 The original nano iDSD redefined the US$200 price class for sonics with a worldwide following of portable/home music lovers enjoying all formats from DSD to MP3.
  
 The new nano iDSD 'LE' (Light Edition) in stunning dark titanium is a $129 reboot:
  

Same stunning ‘_True Native_’ Burr-Brown PCM/DSD chipset
Headphone power output of 130mW with 10-hour battery life
RCA outputs on analogue volume control
  
 Below US$150, there is nothing as advanced as the nano iDSD LE:
  
*Features*

Burr-Brown ‘True Native’ chipset
AMR trickle-down ZeroJitter Lite® for low-jitter/phase-noise
DC-Infinity circuit, DirectDrive® Servo-less circuit
Battery-life ~10 hours
 (Compared to original nano DSD, no SPDIF out, no filter switch and DSD256, has DSD128)
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-le/
  
  
*Specifications*
  

Power Source:                     Battery/USB Bus power
Battery Life:                          ~ 10 Hours playback*
Formats:                              44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/384KHz PCM
                2.8/3.1/5.6/6.2 MHz DSD
         353/384KHz DXD
          Bit-Perfect DSD & DXD DAC by Burr Brown (1-DAC Chip; 2-Channel; 4-Signals)

Input:                                      USB 2.0
Output                                    Audio RCA
         3.5mm Headphone

Dynamic Range:                  >104dB
THD &N (35mW)                 < 0.005%
THD &N (Line)                     < 0.005%
Output Power (16R):           > 130mW
Output Voltage:                    >1.65V (>100Ω)
Output ImpedanceZout):  <1Ω
Power Consumption:          < 3W (charging battery and playback together)
Dimensions:                         106(l)x67(w)x28(h)mm
Weight:                                162g(0.43lbs)
  
# requires Camera Connection Kit or OTG adapter. Cable sold separately.
Specifications are subject to change without notice.
  

 The retail price of the nano iDSD LE US$129 (ex-tax) or €149/£129 (incl VAT).
  
  
Update: Music Direct has it on the launch pad:
https://www.musicdirect.com/headphone-amp/iFi-Nano-iDSD-LE-DACHeadphone-Amp


----------



## analogsurviver

ifi audio said:


> *Nano iDSD ‘LE’* *Pocket Rocket.*
> Southport, UK – 9th December 2016
> 
> *Small, dark and handsome*
> ...


 
 That was quick - I wanted to reply there must be some error regarding DSD128 and DSD256 as stated in initial post ... well done iFi !


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> 2.8/3.1/5.6/6.2*/11.2MHz *DSD




Oops!


----------



## iFi audio

Fixed - thanks Mr Bear!


----------



## rafaelpernil

ifi audio said:


> *Nano iDSD ‘LE’* *Pocket Rocket.*
> Southport, UK – 9th December 2016
> 
> *Small, dark and handsome*
> ...


 
 Which filter is it using internally?


----------



## SoundArtillery

sorry posted in wrong thread.


----------



## iFi audio

soundartillery said:


> sorry posted in wrong thread.


 
 Since you're sorry, we forgive you


----------



## walfredo

ifi audio said:


> soundartillery said:
> 
> 
> > sorry posted in wrong thread.
> ...


----------



## iFi audio

walfredo said:


>


 
  
 Hey, it's almost Xmas time, we are in pretty forgiving, therefore suitable moods ATM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And we're aiming at 2000 posts mark 'till the end of 2016.


----------



## walfredo

ifi audio said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
  
 Whoa!!  This is around 20 post/day.  You guys better start giving stuff... ~


----------



## iFi audio

walfredo said:


> Whoa!!  This is around 20 post/day.  You guys better start giving stuff... ~


 
  
 20 posts per day? Could you please share your math with us? We lack 44 posts to hit the number, at least that's what our profile says...


----------



## walfredo

ifi audio said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa!!  This is around 20 post/day.  You guys better start giving stuff... ~
> ...


 

 Oh, I was referring to this thread, which has 1724 posts.   (2000 - 1724) / (31 - 18) = 21.2.


----------



## technobear

walfredo said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > walfredo said:
> ...




Nice save! We believe you


----------



## walfredo

Nothing like the truth!!!


----------



## iFi audio

walfredo said:


> Nothing like the truth!!!


 
  
 Tip off the hat, that's a fab explanation


----------



## YashN

I've been listening to my iDSD Nano for a couple of years now. Stellar sound, especially with DSD256 through to my SET Tube Amp.
  
 The Nano benefits from not being directly connected to the computer's GND and power - made a big difference in my setup (YMMV because of ground loops or what not). Much less glare, and more micro-details.
  
 iFi recommended I get an iDefender 3.0 so that I can do the ground isolation safely as well as inject clean power.
  
 I did do a little additional experiment injecting non-computer power, but also an external SMPS by using an iPhone charger.
  
 And here again, much better sound (in terms of less glare and detail) than when using a normal USB cable like the default furnished one or any low-cost off-the-shelf one.
  
 It's quite incredible we can still get additional performance for this little DAC with great capabilities.
  
 I have a couple of questions for further building the power-side of my setup with the Nano. In particular I am thinking of having a battery to feed it the main 5V.
  
 I would probably build upon a couple of 18650AF Li-ion batteries.
  
 One of the question that comes up: should I use a regulator with the batteries down to some voltage 5.x or so before inputting this to the Nano, or does the Nano already have internal regulators that make this unnecessary?
  
 The reason I am thinking of using these batteries is that I already have them and have seen people saying they use batteries with trickle-charging to power their DAC (not necessarily the Nano itself).
  
 If there's anything I should take particular care of, do let me know.
  
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## bunkey

I'm also using iDSD nano, no luck like many of you. I do like the sound quality, but the build quality and poor customer support has stopped me from enjoying the music. From the search online, it seems a common issue with iDSD nano headphone jack interfere with RCA output, makes 1 channel of my RCA gone on and off randomly. Repaired once during warranty period did NOT fix the issue, and now over warranty period, they try to charge me for a problem they previous couldn't fix and from the conversation with ifi tech support, they don't seems to know the cause of problem but willing to take my money for another repair. I've lost my trust in this brand, they try to package and sell like an Apple product, but don't have the quality or support to back it up.


----------



## walfredo

bunkey said:


> I'm also using iDSD nano, no luck like many of you. I do like the sound quality, but the build quality and poor customer support has stopped me from enjoying the music. From the search online, it seems a common issue with iDSD nano headphone jack interfere with RCA output, makes 1 channel of my RCA gone on and off randomly. Repaired once during warranty period did NOT fix the issue, and now over warranty period, they try to charge me for a problem they previous couldn't fix and from the conversation with ifi tech support, they don't seems to know the cause of problem but willing to take my money for another repair. I've lost my trust in this brand, they try to package and sell like an Apple product, but don't have the quality or support to back it up.


 
  
 FWIW, I solved the RCA output on mine using Hosa D5S-6 CAIG DeoxIT one the contacts.


----------



## YashN

Haven't had that issue myself as I don't use it as a headphone DAC, but I had stellar support from both iFi and Avatar Acoustics from which I purchased the DAC.


----------



## bunkey

walfredo said:


> FWIW, I solved the RCA output on mine using Hosa D5S-6 CAIG DeoxIT one the contacts.


 

 I've never used that before, so do I open the chase and spray around headphone jack connecting area? What I do to temporary fix the problem is poke my finger to headphone jack, move around till both channel come up. :/


----------



## walfredo

bunkey said:


> walfredo said:
> 
> 
> > FWIW, I solved the RCA output on mine using Hosa D5S-6 CAIG DeoxIT one the contacts.
> ...


 
  
 I did not opened it.  I just sprayed the connectors and plugged them in.  This was two months ago and I have not had problems since.  (Fingers crossed...


----------



## bunkey

walfredo said:


> I did not opened it.  I just sprayed the connectors and plugged them in.  This was two months ago and I have not had problems since.  (Fingers crossed...


 
 thanks for the tip, looks like I might have to invest a Hosa D5S-6 CAIG DeoxIT....


----------



## iFi audio

*iDSD BL is #1 in Japan*  
*Santa couldn’t deliver a nicer present to iFi HQ*
  
  

  
 Southport, UK – 23rd December 2016
  
  
*Uncork the Johnnie Walker Black Label!*
  
  
 Breaking 'Black Label' news from iFi Audio HQ!  iFi Audio is proud to announce that the micro iDSD Black Label is the number 1 seller in Japan this Christmas! Yes, that's right  - No. 1! 
  
  
 Check it out here: http://kakaku.com/kaden/headphone-amp/ranking_2073/spec=101-2/
  
  
  
 The micro iDSD Black Label proves that black is indeed beautiful when it comes to headphone amplifiers. The new black/burnt orange colour scheme in combo with its awesome design features are a force to be reckoned with across the globe.


----------



## YashN

Congrats.
  
 This thread is about the Nano though.
  
 I've settled on making the output voltage of my PSU 5.25 like the max USB standard voltage. I figure that any internal regulators in the Nano will work with that.
  
 Can we know the max current draw for the Nano so that it can both charge the internal battery and play?


----------



## GraveNoX

Nano iDSD is compatible with USB 3.1 (Type A) ?


----------



## iFi audio

gravenox said:


> Nano iDSD is compatible with USB 3.1 (Type A) ?


 
  
 No, iDSD nano is compatible with a USB 3.1 B-Type plug as it is a downstream device.
  
 Downstream devices must be fitted with either a USB-B socket (as is the case with iDSD nano or a USB printer), an A-type plug (like the iDSD micro or a USB memory stick) or C-type socket.
  
 As long as the correct cable is used however, the iDSD nano will work fine with USB 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 equipped sources (computers etc.).


----------



## iFi audio

yashn said:


> Can we know the max current draw for the Nano so that it can both charge the internal battery and play?


 
  
 Sure. USB 2.0 standard 500mA (+/-5%).


----------



## iFi audio

*Audiophile Club of Athens – the President uses the iFi iDAC2 in his ultra-fi system!*
  
 Late last year, when we were at the Athens Audio Show, we met Mr Kyriakos Kougioumtzoglou – President of the ACA since 2016. Mr Kougioumtzoglou, who also happens to be an EE, knows his onions. He has an ultra-fidelity system which is something to behold; including the Micro Seki RX-1500 and Tascam BR-20 Reel-to-Reel. Not to mention Wilson Audio Alexandria X2 speakers and Siltech cables (if you have to ask…), among other things this gent has.
  
 We were quite taken aback when Mr Kougioumtzoglou told us he bought an iDAC2 for digital duties fed by the Metronome C2A. It has stayed there ever since. Yes, you got this right. He obtained the unit first, gave it a good spin in his expensive setup and then reported that he liked it. And that’s the reason why this is huge for us as we never knew the President of the ACA had iFi in his system. 

 We are lost for more superlatives but thank you Mr Kougioumtzoglou for letting us know of your little iFi in your big system!
  
 Here is the system:
  

  
 http://www.aca.gr/index/members/greece?row=18
  
 Thank you ACA!


----------



## loplop

rafaelpernil said:


> Which filter is it using internally?


 
 Was this question ever answered?  I, also, would like to know which filters are implemented on the iDSD LE.
  
 Specifically, Minimum Phase or Standard for PCM?  Or, even better would be Bit Perfect from the Micro iDSD   
  
 Extended or Standard for DSD?


----------



## iFi audio

loplop said:


> Was this question ever answered?  I, also, would like to know which filters are implemented on the iDSD LE.
> 
> Specifically, Minimum Phase or Standard for PCM?  Or, even better would be Bit Perfect from the Micro iDSD
> 
> Extended or Standard for DSD?


 
  

Minimum Phase / Bezier type filter (fixed) for PCM <= 192kHz
Intermediate bandwidth (75kHz before analogue filter) for DSD
Both add analogue filter at 80kHz / -3dB


----------



## loplop

ifi audio said:


> Minimum Phase / Bezier type filter (fixed) for PCM <= 192kHz
> Intermediate bandwidth (75kHz before analogue filter) for DSD
> Both add analogue filter at 80kHz / -3dB




Thanks for that. 

I bought the iDSD nano LE for a friend; initial thoughts are (using it as a DAC/amp) it sounds smooth, warm, nonfatiguing, a bit polite. Really forgiving of source, yet revealing enough to enjoy high res. My initial listen with my LCD2 revealed it a really nice pairing, which surprised me. I suspect I would have revealed deficiencies vs the more powerful iDSD BL but to be honest it was really enjoyable, I wanted to keep listening! 

And that's what it is about, isn't it?

Sounded great with my LCDX and Thinksound ON2, as well. Nice work, excellent value for the money. 

FYI I noticed it had different firmware vs the iDAC2; 5.2D. I suppose this is custom for the LE, since it doesn't support Quad DSD.


----------



## bluelavender

Wondering if this nano or nano LE can be used from laptop utilizing windows 7 or 10 ?


----------



## walfredo

bluelavender said:


> Wondering if this nano or nano LE can be used from laptop utilizing windows 7 or 10 ?


 
  
 Yeap.


----------



## loplop

Of course, I think this is its natural home 
  
 I think the iDSD Micro/BL is better for portable use with a phone, due to the USBA connection.  
  
 Wouldn't it be neat if there was a iDSD Nano equivalent, perhaps in a slimmer, more iphone-like form factor?  Something like the OPPO HA2SE.  
  
 I know that's not ifi's style, but I'd buy it


----------



## iFi audio

loplop said:


> Of course, I think this is its natural home
> 
> I think the iDSD Micro/BL is better for portable use with a phone, due to the USBA connection.
> 
> ...


 
  
 We monitor the market constantly and are always after improving things. The circuitry reduction is a very interesting idea, but to do it properly, therefore without obvious bottlenecks? Now that's a task to behold. Yet who knows what the future will bring.


----------



## bluelavender

Thanks all.. Gonna try either nano or nano le


----------



## walfredo

ifi audio said:


> loplop said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, I think this is its natural home
> ...


 
  
 Hey iFi!!
  
 When are you guys going to build a DAP?  I am a huge fan and would get one immediately.  I think this is also the case for many other people.
  
 []s
 Walfredo


----------



## hamachan

walfredo said:


> Hey iFi!!
> 
> When are you guys going to build a DAP?  I am a huge fan and would get one immediately.  I think this is also the case for many other people.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't think iFi to build their own branding DAP since cheap source carriers such as bunch of Android smartphones or Chinese DAPs have already been available in the market.  Use any source as you like should be the right direction.  I own nano iDSD combined with iPhone/iPad.  I may obtain shanling M1 in the future but so far satisfactory enough.


----------



## bluelavender

Wow... Holy Shat... Just got Nano LE.... This thing is darn good !!! i cannot believe my ears.. Even right out of the box, no burn in, it's already awesome !!
  
 And i have heard output from more expensive setup. This Nano LE can run circle around many other more expensive setup !!


----------



## loplop

@bluelavender I also like the Nano LE, and I have the iDAC2 and iDSD BL.  Nano LE reminds me of my Audeze Deckard a little; warm, full, smooth, more polite than iDSD BL.  I bought the Nano LE for a friend of mine, but I might buy one, as well, as I really liked the sound and it would be a nice counterpoint to the iDSD BL for me.
  
@iFi audio of course, that would be the challenge.  You don't need to go as thin as the HA2SE, though, and keeping your excellent circuit design and parts is important IMO.  Just kicking around ideas, I'd like to see:
 1. more simple case shape (simple squared-off box vs the complex shape of the current Nano/Micro extrusions), with flush front and back plate, for easier stacking/portability/less snagging in coat pockets.  Doesn't even have to be thinner, just a simpler shape!
 2. Type A male connector like the iDSD BL for use with OTG
 3. if possible to fit, a built in iPurifier like iDSD BL, which benefits portable sources greatly
 4. no RCA out, just headphone out.  I prefer 1/4" but 3.5mm is likely better for most of the target market.
 5. either greatly stiffen the volume knob restistance so it won't turn in the pocket, or go with a recessed knob.
  
 Otherwise, keep the same simple features of the iDSD Nano LE.
  
 Winner 
  
 FWIW, I do use DAPs but I'm an old school tape Walkman fan, and feel they're likely going the way of the dodo.


----------



## theaudiologist

whats the idsd le and whats the difference between the normal one?


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> whats the idsd le and whats the difference between the normal one?




http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-le/


----------



## theweezle

Any opinions on the idsd nano vs the smsl m8... this will be the dac for my desktop setup and need something thats reliable enough for a few years at this price pt... theyre both about 180 right now...


----------



## Triplefun

If you don't want the headphone amp then get the latest smsl m8 which can now process dsd256. Explore the differences when all music is up sampled in real time to dsd256. This means you need a dual core CPU 3ghz or higher.


----------



## technobear

Also consider the nano iDSD LE. It loses the filter selection (it uses 'Minimum Phase') and the coaxial digital output and limits DSD to DSD128 but is otherwise comparable and quite a bit cheaper.

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-le/


----------



## theweezle

The LE is not sold in my country and shipping would be $40...so i ruled that out... assuming cost was the same, which has the more neutral sound?


----------



## dacari

I'd like to ask if the new iFi Nano iDSD LE shares the same volume control pot behavior of the original Nano?
 I owned one and I remember when using iems there were a lot of imbalance and was nearly unusable with sensitive iems. This has been improved?


----------



## Topspin70

Saw a tweet by ifi that it's no. 1 in Japan. Would be nice to hear some feedback from any recent owner. Especially if they had the original nano to compare.


----------



## elviscaprice

topspin70 said:


> Saw a tweet by ifi that it's no. 1 in Japan. Would be nice to hear some feedback from any recent owner. Especially if they had the original nano to compare.


 

 ​I've never owned an ifi dac before.  But I do have the ifi Nano DSD LE dac and I can say it's a treat for $129 total.  I bought it as a backup for my Chord Hugo out on repairs, and I can say it rivals the musicality of the Hugo at 1/20th the cost, not as detailed or as big a stage presence but I love it's overall simplicity. 
 I do recommend as a desktop powering with an Uptone LPS-1 thru a Regen or similar.  Has better SQ than powering by the battery.


----------



## Topspin70

elviscaprice said:


> ​I've never owned an ifi dac before.  But I do have the ifi Nano DSD LE dac and I can say it's a treat for $129 total.  I bought it as a backup for my Chord Hugo out on repairs, and I can say it rivals the musicality of the Hugo at 1/20th the cost, not as detailed or as big a stage presence but I love it's overall simplicity.
> I do recommend as a desktop powering with an Uptone LPS-1 thru a Regen or similar.  Has better SQ than powering by the battery.


 

 That's great to hear. From your experience, it sounds quite similar to the previous iDSD Nano which I have as a simple secondary unit. It's less detailed compared to my other DAC, but I still find it very clean and has a nice sparkle to it. And its fuller, more musical delivery has got me using it almost every day. A iPurifier 2 behind it helps clean the power a bit but I doubt it comes close to the LPS-1+Regen combo you have. Wish the LE was around earlier. Same good SQ but less $.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I have the iFi iDSD nano LE, and the Schiit Modi2, and the iFi blows the Schiit out of the water.
  
 I paid $99 for the Modi2, and then purchased the SYS passive Pre-Amp for $45.
  
 The nano LE has a headphone amp built in, but by far it is the Burr-Brown chipset that makes the considerable difference. You might add the iPurifier2 into the mix to get the maximum signal SQ.
  
 The "_*Computer Audiophile on the Cheap*_" system includes both the iFi iPurifier2 and the nano LE as "*Must Buy*" tweaks to the system. I use the Modi2 on a laptop back in the bedroom to decode YouTubes....


----------



## ExpatinJapan

deleted


----------



## thrand1

Any other feedback from new users of the Nano iDSD LE? I was informed this is the replacement product for the original Nano iDSD, so if anyone has comparisons between the non-LE and the LE that would be helpful. Do you miss any of the features from the original Nano iDSD?
  
 Specifically, I am wondering about the use of the LE with IEMs (similar to a previous user). Is there any issue with background hiss? How much of the volume pot are you able to utilize? Do you think the iEMatch product is required for use with this?
  
 I have Shure SE425s, and am considering this product versus the Audioquest Dragonfly Red, so if anyone owns both, comparisons would be great! I am looking for a "transportable" solution for travel to and from the office with potential occasional use at home. The pros for the Dragonfly seem to be the compact form factor and not having to worry about recharging a battery, while the pros for the iFi seem to be: less/no battery drain on the phone, higher sampling rate support, external volume knob (if that is important to you), lower cost (even if adding in additional iEMatch).
  
 Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## dacari

thrand1 said:


> Any other feedback from new users of the Nano iDSD LE? I was informed this is the replacement product for the original Nano iDSD, so if anyone has comparisons between the non-LE and the LE that would be helpful. Do you miss any of the features from the original Nano iDSD?
> 
> Specifically, I am wondering about the use of the LE with IEMs (similar to a previous user). Is there any issue with background hiss? How much of the volume pot are you able to utilize? Do you think the iEMatch product is required for use with this?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I owned the original non-LE, with sensitive iems I had problems with imbalance-volume pot. The volume is some kind of hybrid volume analog-digital steps, as a result poor accuracy gain control, again I'm talking of iems.
  
 Later, I owned the Micro iDSD and it really worked perfectly with iems with all the tweaks to reduce gain, but for me (might be the only one) I always liked the sound of nano than micro.


----------



## thrand1

dacari said:


> I owned the original non-LE, with sensitive iems I had problems with imbalance-volume pot. The volume is some kind of hybrid volume analog-digital steps, as a result poor accuracy gain control, again I'm talking of iems.
> 
> Later, I owned the Micro iDSD and it really worked perfectly with iems with all the tweaks to reduce gain, but for me (might be the only one) I always liked the sound of nano than micro.


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback! This is very helpful. My IEMs are Shure SE425s- not as sensitive as others on the market, but still wanted to check. Do you think iEMatch is necessary to use with Nano LE? I'm weighing the Nano LE, Oppo HA2-SE, or maybe even the Micro iDSD, but don't know at what level it becomes overkill for the price when you look at the IEMs I have?


----------



## dacari

thrand1 said:


> Thanks for the feedback! This is very helpful. My IEMs are Shure SE425s- not as sensitive as others on the market, but still wanted to check. Do you think iEMatch is necessary to use with Nano LE? I'm weighing the Nano LE, Oppo HA2-SE, or maybe even the Micro iDSD, but don't know at what level it becomes overkill for the price when you look at the IEMs I have?


 
  
 Well, the problem is that the Nanos doesn't have IEMatch, only the Micro.
 Keep in mind that I tend to listen music below average volume and the Nano with my UM3x was barely usable, really good sound but without path to adjust volume, from imbalance to too loud.
  
 The new Nano LE is advertised with analog volume maybe there has been some improvements in this regard.


----------



## technobear

dacari said:


> The new Nano LE is advertised with analog volume maybe there has been some improvements in this regard.




They all have analogue volume control.

There is a separate iEMatch available. It just plugs in between the headphone and the iDSD.

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-iematch/


----------



## dacari

technobear said:


> They all have analogue volume control.
> 
> There is a separate iEMatch available. It just plugs in between the headphone and the iDSD.
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-iematch/


 
  
 Thank you, I totally missed this accesory, really interesting.
  
 Regarding the analog volume of Nano, I remember that I contacted with the store and they contacted with ifi, and they said that the volume was some kind of hybrid volume, in fact, I could listen to the "internal steps" perfectly.


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> [COLOR=1F497D]We use a chip that combines differential input, volume control and an Amplifier all on one Chip. This volume control is similar to that in the Abbingdon Music Research AM-777.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=1F497D]The iDSD, at FULL volume, has NO resistors remaining in series with the volume control.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=1F497D]The volume works for both RCAs and Headphones. So it is a type of small pre-amp. Or turn to full volume and there will be no more resistors in the chain. Eat and cake![/COLOR]




I've found one post in this thread which talks about the volume control.

Sounds like a digitally-controlled analogue volume control to me.


----------



## theaudiologist

guys, what do you think is a better choice:

IFI nano idsd + ifi nano ican or

just Ifi micro idsd


----------



## technobear

theaudiologist said:


> guys, what do you think is a better choice:
> 
> IFI nano idsd + ifi nano ican or
> 
> just Ifi micro idsd



That's easy. The micro iDSD is the clear choice there. Better sound. Better battery life. More features. More power.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> That's easy. The micro iDSD is the clear choice there. Better sound. Better battery life. More features. More power.



Sound quality wise we believe so as well. Still, it all comes down to personal needs, i.e. pocket space available etc. Hence in our eyes the Nano range isn't a case lost against iDSD BL on every field out there


----------



## Ver JJ

How will you guys describe ifi nano iDSD in one sentence (in terms of sound & build quality).......? I had found many mixed review online so I am a little confused right now........


----------



## Bla4444

I get ifi idsd le but i advice,stay away from it. Mine had worked for 1 hour, and it seem the battery won t charge anymore. Big dissapointment. Especially if i think about drb or dfr, has no battery and has not such a problem.


----------



## scrypt

Last Friday, I switched to a desktop computer with Windows 10 at my secret non-home location. Every time I've tried to access the iFi drivers page (or indeed any page on the iFi site), I've gotten an endlessly static progress bar beneath the following sentence in festive italics:

_We are busy updating the website for you and will be back shortly._​
High above the text and bar, a seemingly arbitrary count appears:

2days 4hours 30minutes​
Is everyone getting this and, if so, what's up with the iFi audio site?


----------



## hamachan

scrypt said:


> Last Friday, I switched to a desktop computer with Windows 10 at my secret non-home location. Every time I've tried to access the iFi drivers page (or indeed any page on the iFi site), I've gotten an endlessly static progress bar beneath the following sentence in festive italics:
> 
> _We are busy updating the website for you and will be back shortly._​
> High above the text and bar, a seemingly arbitrary count appears:
> ...



As it says, ifi is updating their site.  Let's wait!


----------



## scrypt (Aug 10, 2017)

hamachan said:


> As it says, ifi is updating their site.  Let's wait!



Thanks for the vigorous response.

Normally, site updates don't take over a week, hence my question posed to the at public large. Hey, there, large public at.

It's a diagnostic question, which I hope didn't appear to be an impatient expostulation. Fellow Trilobite Lodge members will attest to my zero-impatience-tolerance policy. (Hurry the hell up and regain your composure, you reckless foonts!)

If the issue is the site and not my access, so be it. I wanted to be certain that the hiccup (urp!) had nothing to do with my IT-saddled setup. Restricted permissions can result in various kinds of dead pages -- even maintenance pages -- depending on a site's defaults.


----------



## yangian

Anyone have these two and could give me some coooments:
https://www.amazon.com/Nano-iDSD-Po...F8&qid=1502474768&sr=1-4&keywords=ifi+idsd+le

https://www.amazon.com/SMSL-M8A-ES9...02474917&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=smsl+m8a&psc=1

Thanks


----------



## boblauer

scrypt said:


> Thanks for the vigorous response.
> 
> Normally, site updates don't take over a week, hence my question posed to the at public large. Hey, there, large public at.
> 
> ...




If you hit the More button on the bottom of the splash page and then the back button it does take you into the site. I don't know how accurate or up to date the site that it resolves to is but it is slow.


----------



## hamachan

scrypt said:


> Thanks for the vigorous response.



By the way the iFi site has been resumed but it looks old version.  No recent launched products are shown, the USB driver version is 2.23 and the firmware for iDSD nano is 5.0 (Latest version must be 2.26 and 5.2 respectively).  I do not know what happen.


----------



## cheungtsw

scrypt said:


> Thanks for the vigorous response.
> 
> Normally, site updates don't take over a week, hence my question posed to the at public large. Hey, there, large public at.
> 
> ...



That's what I have been saying but instead I got personal attacked by various people.

I believe (my guess) is their server crashed and lost the latest backup.  Hence it is now on the "older" website after 2 weeks.


----------



## xichenamoy

StratocasterMan said:


> I'm not concerned about listening to headphones and speakers at the same time. That isn't the concern. From the response above, it does sound like iFi has put quite a bit of thought into the issue.
> 
> If I am understanding things correctly, it is necessary to set the volume control of the iDSD on maximum to get the proper output from the RCA outs. Apparently, this is 1.8V. That is a little less than what seems to be the accepted standard of 2.0V, although in reality, I don't think a standard really exists. That means that the user must have a more powerful speaker amplifier to obtain the same results than if the output was 2.0V, because the speaker amplifier is receiving a slightly weaker signal than what I would call normal.
> 
> ...



I had the same concern here since my another Denon DAC's RCA output not affected by its volume control. So I googled and found your postings as well as ifi's response. I completely understood the concern since people always try to avoid double amplifying the signal, and I agreed that it seems necessary to push volume to max for a RCA output to skip "Stepped Attenuator".

Anyway It's a very good question and it got a good answer. It's good for the owner to better understand how the product works. Just completely did NOT understand why people like kugino kept giving very mean responses... If they were hired to attack customers in this way, I would feel very bad for the company.


----------



## rickyleelee

Jon Dark DAR blog mentioned the new nano Black label maybe search it yourself be see. Maybe or. Maybe not ok.


----------



## scrypt (Sep 9, 2017)

rickyleelee said:


> Jon Dark DAR blog mentioned the new nano Black label maybe search it yourself be see. Maybe or. Maybe not ok.



The new BL's restricted I/O is less versatile than that of the Johnny Walker-friendly micro from iFi, n'est-ce pas? Then again, that's one of the standard differences between the two models:

That Certain iDSD nano Black Label


----------



## iFi audio

scrypt said:


> The new BL's restricted I/O is less versatile than that of the Johnny Walker-friendly micro from iFi, n'est-ce pas? Then again, that's one of the standard differences between the two models:
> 
> That Certain iDSD nano Black Label



There's rather obvious difference in size between micro iDSD BL and upcoming nano iDSD BL. The latter is much smaller, so yeah... one can't have everything in such a small package.


----------



## TAREKFOUAD1

Any plan for 2.5TRRS balanced?


----------



## scrypt (Sep 10, 2017)

[Redacted for the benefit of society.]


----------



## Kane Williams

I still love my iDSD Nano. What does this new one bring to the table? Is the headphone amp side of it more powerful or improved?


----------



## iFi audio

Kane Williams said:


> I still love my iDSD Nano. What does this new one bring to the table? Is the headphone amp side of it more powerful or improved?



In a nutshell, we aimed at better sound quality and functionality. The amplifier part got improved, we've added digital filter, were able to squeeze iEMatch inside and USB socket changed to A type. We'll reveal all tasty details a bit later on, please stay tuned


----------



## obsidyen

How does Nano BL pair with Fostex headphones?


----------



## iFi audio (Sep 18, 2017)

obsidyen said:


> How does Nano BL pair with Fostex headphones?



Hi obsidian

Apologies for sending you the wrong link. I have now amended my response to you.

The iDSD nano Black Label has a much more powerful headphone amplifier compared to the original and comes equipped with iEMatch, making sure it can match a much wider range of headphones compared to the original.

To comment on compatibility with a specific headphone, one would need to know the model, not just manufacturer, as many manufacturers have wide ranging product lineups with very different characteristics.

I hope that this answers your query. Once again, sorry for sending you the wrong link.

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## RedTwilight

TAREKFOUAD1 said:


> Any plan for 2.5TRRS balanced?



Also wondering about this. Can't wait for the Nano BL to launch to try it.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

If they would offer balanced output, than as usual 3.5mm TRRS, anything other would be curious, if you check the iFi product lineup and the focus on 3.5mm TRRS.

But from the video shown at digitalaudioreview.net you can see two 3.5mm outputs at the front, one regular output, the other output has iEMatch damping "high", I guess the same -12dB damping factor as the original iEMatch stand-alone product.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> If they would offer balanced output, than as usual 3.5mm TRRS, anything other would be curious, if you check the iFi product lineup and the focus on 3.5mm TRRS.
> 
> But from the video shown at digitalaudioreview.net you can see two 3.5mm outputs at the front, one regular output, the other output has iEMatch damping "high", I guess the same -12dB damping factor as the original iEMatch stand-alone product.



Dear h1f1add 1cted

The iDSD nano Black Label uses single-ended amplification (we feel that the > 3.2V output available will drive most headphones very well).

However the Headphone jack is TRRS with fully balanced PCB trace routing all the way to the Dual Mono Headphone amplifiers. 

So you can use headphones fitted with 3.5mm TRRS connectors and balanced wiring to gain all the true benefits of balanced wiring and balanced connections (that is reduced crosstalk/distortion due to the elimination of the common single ground connection for left/right). 

The same headphones will then also work fully balanced on balanced iFi product like the iCAN Pro and the upcoming iDSD Pro.

We feel that 3.5mm TRRS Balanced connection make the most common sense, compared to forcing new and incompatible connections lacking wide availability of connectors and tooling to terminate headphone cables.

As for your comment about the video shown at digitalaudioreview.net, this is correct, with a proliferation of very high sensitivity IEM's and Headphones we feel that including iEMatch to better match the affordable IEM's / Headphones people actually own is of more practical value than theoretical benefits of balanced amplifications. 

This especially holds seeing that balanced connections for portable use (be it 3.5mm TRRS, dual 3.5mm TRS, 2.5mm TRRS, Kobicon, 4.4mm TRRRS, mini-xlr etc.) are not supported by most (if any) commercially available IEM's & Headphones without replacing the wiring, which can add dramatically to the cost of a budget oriented IEM & DAC/Amp.

I hope that this answers your queries.

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## RedTwilight

@iFi audio That's awesome!! Flexibility has always been your strong suit eh? Really keen to check this out now!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

iFi audio said:


> ...
> 
> However the Headphone jack is TRRS with fully balanced PCB trace routing all the way to the Dual Mono Headphone amplifiers.
> 
> ...



Wow I'm sold now - you got me. All my CIEMs and headphones already use true 3.5mm TRRS wiring, because I use at the moment your iEMatch with balanced setting to my 3.5mm TRRS balanced DAC/AMP combo, but I want change to the new nano iDSD BL.





When will it available in Germany? I have checked German iFi Audio dealers but hey have no news for me.


----------



## cheungtsw

iFi audio said:


> Dear h1f1add 1cted
> 
> The iDSD nano Black Label uses single-ended amplification (we feel that the > 3.2V output available will drive most headphones very well).
> 
> ...



How does the SQ compares with iOne?

I believe most (if not all) of the iDSD are powered by the BB chip but there is no mention in the spec. if they are the same BB chip other than I think the Micro iDSD BL uses 2 BB chips.
It would help to mention if there are different BB chips used in the different product.


----------



## iFi audio

RedTwilight said:


> Also wondering about this. Can't wait for the Nano BL to launch to try it.



Hi RedTwilight

Not long to go now! We'll keep you posted. Watch this space!

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## RedTwilight

iFi audio said:


> Hi RedTwilight
> 
> Not long to go now! We'll keep you posted. Watch this space!
> 
> ...



HeadFi will alert me on any posts to this page. 

Looking forward to it!


----------



## iFi audio

cheungtsw said:


> How does the SQ compares with iOne?
> 
> I believe most (if not all) of the iDSD are powered by the BB chip but there is no mention in the spec. if they are the same BB chip other than I think the Micro iDSD BL uses 2 BB chips.
> It would help to mention if there are different BB chips used in the different product.



Dear cheungtsw

The XMOS section, DAC & line-out is essentially the same as iOne, sound quality is essentially the same. Parts quality, component choices, etc. parallel the iOne.

The Headphone Amplifier is derived from the iDAC2 micro.

I hope that this answers your query.

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> Wow I'm sold now - you got me. All my CIEMs and headphones already use true 3.5mm TRRS wiring, because I use at the moment your iEMatch with balanced setting to my 3.5mm TRRS balanced DAC/AMP combo, but I want change to the new nano iDSD BL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dear h1fiadd1cted

Many thanks for your query.

We have a global launch of the 2nd of November for the nano iDSD BL.

Not long to wait!

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## iFi audio

cheungtsw said:


> How does the SQ compares with iOne?
> 
> I believe most (if not all) of the iDSD are powered by the BB chip but there is no mention in the spec. if they are the same BB chip other than I think the Micro iDSD BL uses 2 BB chips.
> It would help to mention if there are different BB chips used in the different product.



Dear cheungtsw

The XMOS section, DAC & line-out is essentially the same as iOne, sound quality is essentially the same. Parts quality, component choices etc. parallel the iOne.

The Headphone Amplifier is derived from the iDAC2 micro.

I hope that this answers your query.

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## Mihai IOV

Hello,

I read somewhere that the future iDSD nano BL will have a full MQA support, that means it will decode the full unfold of the master tracks from Tidal?

Is it possible with a software update to enable the MQA support on the iDSD micro or iDSD micro BL? The support for the MQA is hardware or software inside the iFi dacs?

Thank you.


----------



## iFi audio

Girls and guys, just a short announcement:

*We will be at RMAF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

 

On our several stations we'll have lots of currently available iFi audio stuff with us, namely Pro iESL and Pro iCAN, iCAN SE, iTube2, iDAC2 micro iDSD BL and a bunch our accessories too!

But there we will also show *nano iDSD Black Label !!! *

Be sure to visit us at the atrium - CanJam 24!


----------



## Jozurr

I have a quick question,

Does the Nano iDSD LE work as a preamp? If I connect my amp from the RCA outs, will the volume knob control the volume out of the RCA jacks? or is it just a straight line out from the DAC?


----------



## iFi audio

Jozurr said:


> I have a quick question,
> 
> Does the Nano iDSD LE work as a preamp? If I connect my amp from the RCA outs, will the volume knob control the volume out of the RCA jacks? or is it just a straight line out from the DAC?



In short: yes, it does. You can use it as a volume control for your power amplifier.


----------



## iFi audio

*Polish Audio Video Show*
*...and we'll be there !!!*



This event is *the second biggest in Europe* and this year's edition is the 20th anniversary. It starts soon ad we'll be there!

Where?

*Poland, Warsaw*
When?

*17th - 19th of November 2017*
Where exactly?

*PGE Narodowy Stadium, the headphones hall*
What?

*Several listening stations, several iFi staff members, fine headphones too and... LOTS of iFi gear*
How?

*Just like that  But seriously, we like the Polish event, the atmosphere in there is out of this world*

If you're around, please make sure to visit us!

Cheers,
iFi Team


----------



## howdy

Is there anywhere that shows all the Specs for the Nano BL?


----------



## Mihai IOV

howdy said:


> Is there anywhere that shows all the Specs for the Nano BL?



I'm also interested for the specs of upcoming Nano BL, especially the MQA capability.

Some specs are revealed in this article: https://www.samma3a.com/tech/en/ifi-audio-reveals-nano-idsd-black-label/


----------



## howdy

Mihai IOV said:


> I'm also interested for the specs of upcoming Nano BL, especially the MQA capability.
> 
> Some specs are revealed in this article: https://www.samma3a.com/tech/en/ifi-audio-reveals-nano-idsd-black-label/


Thanks!
I actually found some last night after Google searching for a bit. 
Wonder how close it will sound to the Micro? I thought the Micro was Absoulety perfect for me. I actually preferred the sound of the micro over either Hugo1/2 and can't wait to try the Micro BL and Nano BL.


----------



## iFi audio

howdy said:


> Thanks!
> I actually found some last night after Google searching for a bit.
> Wonder how close it will sound to the Micro? I thought the Micro was Absoulety perfect for me. I actually preferred the sound of the micro over either Hugo1/2 and can't wait to try the Micro BL and Nano BL.



Soon everything will be known.


----------



## Textfeud

I'm getting some kind of warning noise form the iFi Nano iDSD out of my speakers. Thought it might be my speakers but with turntable the beep doesn't happen. Any idea what I could be? LED is green, so not a battery issue I'm assuming.


----------



## iFi audio

Textfeud said:


> I'm getting some kind of warning noise form the iFi Nano iDSD out of my speakers. Thought it might be my speakers but with turntable the beep doesn't happen. Any idea what I could be? LED is green, so not a battery issue I'm assuming.



In such cases more nfo about your setup is needed. Please feel free to use out Support Ticket Platform, to be found here:

http://support.ifi-audio.com

...and let us know all details there. We're positive that we'd be able to help. Thanks!


----------



## Textfeud

Done, thanks.


----------



## tantalus007

iFi audio said:


> Dear cheungtsw
> 
> The XMOS section, DAC & line-out is essentially the same as iOne, sound quality is essentially the same. Parts quality, component choices, etc. parallel the iOne.
> 
> ...



Will the ifi Nano BL be powerful enough to give sufficient volumes to a AKG 7xx/712 Pro or a Beyerdynamic dt880/990 Premium 600ohm headphones?


----------



## iFi audio

tantalus007 said:


> Will the ifi Nano BL be powerful enough to give sufficient volumes to a AKG 7xx/712 Pro or a Beyerdynamic dt880/990 Premium 600ohm headphones?



Given reasonably full batteries or USB power, the iDSD nano Black Label will allow undistorted peak SPL of 111dB - 112dB for the AKG712 and undistorted peak SPL of 106 - 108dB for the 600 ohm DT880, based on extrapolating Innerfidelity tests.

This translates to SPL sufficient to meet THX specifications.


----------



## Robert777

Does anyone know if the Nano BL is going to have a coaxial input or if it will just be USB B like the current Nano?

Thank you.


----------



## boblauer

Robert777 said:


> Does anyone know if the Nano BL is going to have a coaxial input or if it will just be USB B like the current Nano?
> 
> Thank you.


IFI will need to confirm on the optical but usb input has switched to type A I believe.


----------



## Robert777

boblauer said:


> IFI will need to confirm on the optical but usb input has switched to type A I believe.



Thank you. I just saw the picture with USB A and was about to update.

Thank you for your speedy response.

Why is it so difficult to find USB C or micro B to male OTG cables.

I know ifi could not include every possible cable but some attempt would be nice.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

The iFi nano iDSD BL has type A OTG male input with iFi iPurifier technolgy built-in (like the micro iDSD). The nano iDSD has no optical or coax input. All other techical details can be found already here: http://ifi-audio-jp.blogspot.de/

For summary:

Input (back): USB 2.0 Type A "OTG" male
Output (rear): 3.5 mm stereo mini fixed level line out,
Digital filter: 2 types
Output (Front): 3.5 mm stereo mini x 2 (direct output, iEMatch® loaded output)
DAC: Bit-Perfect DSD / DXD conversion, digital filter switchable PCM conversion, Burr Brown DSD, DXD, PCM DAC compatible with MQA
Clock: Low jitter crystal clock
Supported format: DSD 256/128/64 / 12.4 / 11.2 / 6.2 / 5.6 / 3.1 / 2.8 MHz
DXD 384 / 352.8 kHz
PCM 384 / 352.8 / 192 / 176.4 / 96 / 88.2 / 48 / 44.1 kHz
MQA
PCM: Listen (minimum phase filter with transient characteristics optimized)
Measure (filter with optimized frequency characteristics)
DSD: Listen (wideband filter with transient characteristics optimized)
Measure (filter suppressing out-of-band noise)
DXD: Bit-Perfect conversion
MQA: MQA filter
Headphone amplifier: Dual mono 2 x 285 mW No coupling coupling direct drive
Volume control: Analog 2 circuit - Potentiometer with power switch function, Tracking error 2 dB or less
(40 dB - 0 dB Attenuation)
Headphone connection: 3.5 mm TRRS balanced with single end compatibility
Dynamic range (line output): 109 dB (A) or more
THD + N (0 dBFS line output): 0.004% or less
Output voltage (direct out): 3.5 V (600 Ω loading) or more
2.9 V (at 30 Ω load) or more
1.7 V (at 15 Ω load) or more
Output voltage (line output): 2.15 V (± 0.05 V)
Output impedance: 1 Ω or less (direct out) 4 Ω or less (iEMatch) 240 Ω or less (line output)
Channel separation: 99 dB (1 kHz) or more
Jitter: Below measurement limit
Size: 96 (depth) x 64 (width) x 25.5 (height) mm
Weight: 139 g

I will order my nano iDSD BL at 3rd of November (offical release date). Can't wait to get this little baby.


----------



## TVeye

Is there the same magnitude of parts upgrade as the idsd micro bl vs standard (oscon caps,better op-amps,better clock,etc)?
Not a lot of details about this in contrary to idsd micro.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

For this we need to wait a few days until iFi publish for puplic the real product page ( https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-bl/ ) with the remaining details related to the parts, I'm sure it will be a completely different level, especially at amplifier section and for MQA support at dac section too.


----------



## iFi audio

TVeye said:


> Is there the same magnitude of parts upgrade as the idsd micro bl vs standard (oscon caps,better op-amps,better clock,etc)?
> Not a lot of details about this in contrary to idsd micro.



We'll reveal this nfo shortly.


----------



## TVeye

So much impatient to know more about this new dac/amp...


----------



## h1f1add1cted

It's aleady online... just click on my link I provided before https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-bl/


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> It's aleady online... just click on my link I provided before https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-bl/



Yup, that's it!


----------



## Kane Williams

Any trade in deals for owners of iFi Nano iDSD?


----------



## coolcrew23

Just want to ask about the nano idsd black label. Is the MQA a hardware decode like the explorer 2 or like the Dragonfly Red which is just a software decode?


----------



## TVeye

h1f1add1cted said:


> It's aleady online... just click on my link I provided before https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-idsd-bl/


Great!  Thank you for the link.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

@iFi audio

How long it will take that German iFi dealers get the nano iDSD BL? I also miss the new Ear Buddy is there a special reason why no dealer has them in stock in our country?


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> @iFi audio
> 
> How long it will take that German iFi dealers get the nano iDSD BL? I also miss the new Ear Buddy is there a special reason why no dealer has them in stock in our country?



You have a PM


----------



## Bdumaguina

Hello,
I recently purchased an iFi Nano LE. I'm looking for a short USB 3.0 cable that would work with it. Ideally, 10cm long only - and the B type male is angled. I found a few online but they're usually 50cm long, which isn't ideal for stacking. I'm using the iFi Nano LE with my Samsung Galaxy Note 5. Any leads? Thanks.


----------



## howdy

How close is the sound between the micro and the nano? Anyone have both and would compare?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Bdumaguina said:


> Hello,
> I recently purchased an iFi Nano LE. I'm looking for a short USB 3.0 cable that would work with it. Ideally, 10cm long only - and the B type male is angled. I found a few online but they're usually 50cm long, which isn't ideal for stacking. I'm using the iFi Nano LE with my Samsung Galaxy Note 5. Any leads? Thanks.



You just need to get a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 B type to USB-A type adaptor + a regular 10cm short USB OTG cable, it will be like my soluton:














I posted it already here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ssion-impression.683406/page-98#post-11963733



howdy said:


> How close is the sound between the micro and the nano? Anyone have both and would compare?



My nano iDSD BL is finally shipped. I guess in the next few days I will get the parcel.  Have nano iDSD (original not LE) and micro iDSD (original not BL), but mainly I will compare to Chord Mojo and LH Labs GeekOut V2+ for it's form factor. Cheers


----------



## Bdumaguina

h1f1add1cted said:


> You just need to get a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 B type to USB-A type adaptor + a regular 10cm short USB OTG cable, it will be like my soluton:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So apparently USB 2.0 works. Thank you for responding. I will look into this.


----------



## iFi audio

Bdumaguina said:


> Hello,
> I recently purchased an iFi Nano LE. I'm looking for a short USB 3.0 cable that would work with it. Ideally, 10cm long only - and the B type male is angled. I found a few online but they're usually 50cm long, which isn't ideal for stacking. I'm using the iFi Nano LE with my Samsung Galaxy Note 5. Any leads? Thanks.



You might also want to inform your local iFi representative/distributor that you need such an item. If there will be interest big enough, we might introduce something extra short and USB3.0 compliant.


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> You might also want to inform your local iFi representative/distributor that you need such an item. If there will be interest big enough, we might introduce something extra short and USB3.0 compliant.



Would LOVE a nice short USB-C OTG cable from you guys. Currently using the OnePlus cable, but it isn't great quality.


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Would LOVE a nice short USB-C OTG cable from you guys. Currently using the OnePlus cable, but it isn't great quality.



Rest assured that we hear you and look into cable related things, yet can't promise anything yet.


----------



## TheoS53

@iFi audio , is there a known issue with the nano BL and USB-C connections? I've started my review but every now and then the nano BL simply stops outputting/receiving any sound. I'm connecting it to my Shanling M2s, and have no such issue with my micro BL. Doing a restart on the M2s doesn't solve the issue, only performing a restart on the nano BL does.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

TheoS53 said:


> @iFi audio , is there a known issue with the nano BL and USB-C connections? I've started my review but every now and then the nano BL simply stops outputting/receiving any sound. I'm connecting it to my Shanling M2s, and have no such issue with my micro BL. Doing a restart on the M2s doesn't solve the issue, only performing a restart on the nano BL does.



I'm using the nano iDSD BL with my Shanling M1 which has same USB Audio function over USB-C output like the M2s does and I have zero glichtes. 

  

I have read ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...-details-page-12.864211/page-19#post-13854671 ) some units with pre-installed firmware 5.3*D* have a few issues, but using latest firmware you can geht by iFi support page 5.3*C* it's working fine: https://ifi-audio.com/nano-idsd-bl-xmos-firmware/ so maybe you check first which firmware your unit is running on.


Btw. first impressions, very good. Power wise almost like original micro iDSD at normal mode gain, I'm using fully balanced TRRS wiring for all my headphones and CIEMs.



I will write soon more comparing to those little gus:


----------



## TheoS53

h1f1add1cted said:


> I'm using the nano iDSD BL with my Shanling M1 which has same USB Audio function over USB-C output like the M2s does and I have zero glichtes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks buddy. Just updated it and will report back if still facing issues


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> I'm using the nano iDSD BL with my Shanling M1 which has same USB Audio function over USB-C output like the M2s does and I have zero glichtes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice post, thanks!


----------



## h1f1add1cted (Nov 22, 2017)

Short summary of my brief testing from the last days listening at different type of headphones and IEMs, all done with 3.5mm TRRS balanced wiring.

Pros:

- Very powerful output (as example Sennheiser HD 800 | 300 ohm @ 102dB sensitivity @ 9:30 to 10 o'clock already loud, Fostex T50RP | 50 ohm @ 92dB sensitivity @ 11:30 to 12 o'clock already loud)
- Great build quality (as iFi usual)
- Seems to have BC1.2 quick charging support, because just ~ 2 hours for full charge using my BC1.2 charger, I'm wonder why this is not mentioned in technical details
- Black background, almost zero hiss (very sensitive IEMs @ iEMatch only slight hiss at unhealthy high volume setting, normal volume no audibile hiss) using an 12 driver IEM as "hiss detector"
- Excellent sound quality (using minimum phase digital filter setting) comparing to a two times more expensive device like Chord Mojo for example
- Decent battery life (~ 8 hours @ 16/44.1 FLAC using 300 ohms Sennheiser HD 800 headphones)

Cons:

- iEMatch output still too powerful output for very sensitive IEMs
- Analogue volume control not fine enough for low volume listening with channel imbalance

The last two cons can be easily fixed using external iEMatch adaptor, with additional benefit to lower output impedance to < 1 ohms for the non-direct output:




Would iEMatch @ Ultra setting with -24 dB damping and < 1 ohms output impedance already built-in, it would be absolute perfect, I can live using the iEMatch adaptor, but it's still addtional costs and a bit more bulky.


----------



## TheoS53

h1f1add1cted said:


> I'm using the nano iDSD BL with my Shanling M1 which has same USB Audio function over USB-C output like the M2s does and I have zero glichtes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately I'm still getting the same issue...damn


----------



## h1f1add1cted (Nov 25, 2017)

I'm sorry to hear, do you have other sources to try like a Android phone with USB Audio Player PRO app for example?

There should just two possible reasons IMHO for your glitches:

1. The firmware of the Shanling M2s is not the same (stable) as from the Shanling M1 in regards of supported USB devices
2. Your iDSD BL unit is faulty

I think point one should be most realistic, as long we have no other M2s users with the iDSD BL reporting a different experience.

Which firmware do you have on your M2s? Last one is 3.0 for your DAP. I use my M1 with 4.0 and the last recent one is 4.1, I did not upgraded yet to last recent one. So maybe use previous firmware 2.20 or if you use 2.20 already, upgrade to 3.0.


----------



## Carabasda

Hi,
Does anyone has had time to have a solid opinion on this new gadget versus Mojo?
Is Mojo "better"? I've read nano's big brother is comparable, but don't know yet if this small unit is as good.
I have a pair of Sennheiser HD600 headphones currently with Fiio Q1 and really tempted to buy Mojo but if this new Nano unit is at the same level it will save me a lot of money.
I would use it with an android S7 edge phone (USB Audio Pro app) and a computer (Foobar). My sound files are flac up to DSD, mostly classical and jazz.
Money is not a concern, I will save money for Mojo if it is worth it over Nano.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## h1f1add1cted (Nov 25, 2017)

Did you read my post above? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...sion-impression.683406/page-124#post-13866488 I own Chord Mojo (see one page before: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...sion-impression.683406/page-123#post-13858135 ) and I compared it to nano iDSD BL, the answer in my point of view is simple, if you don't require the higher peak output power of 5.3 Vrms, go for the nano iDSD BL, you get for the half amount of money the equal sound quality IMHO.


----------



## Carabasda

Thank you very much.


----------



## TheoS53

h1f1add1cted said:


> I'm sorry to hear, do you have other sources to try like a Android phone with USB Audio Player PRO app for example?
> 
> There should just two possible reasons IMHO for your glitches:
> 
> ...



Yup, I've got 2 of the M2s, both on the latest firmware, so gonna spend today trying to pin point where the issue is


----------



## TheoS53

Here my unboxing and quick look at the Black Label


----------



## bachankas

How does compare Nano BL do Nano LE and Micro (non BL)?


----------



## redryder

I’m wondering the same thing, whether I should I get the non BL micro or the nano BL.


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Here my unboxing and quick look at the Black Label




Very nice,  thanks!


----------



## bachankas

Additionally, Did anyone compare it to NuPrime uDSD? The seem similar in size, price and possibilities.


----------



## Carabasda

I bought one yesterday. It's my Christmas present, but I have to test if it works you know .
After trying to decide for a year if I must buy the Mojo or not I think I feel better with myself spending half the money.
I have not listen to the Mojo ever, but this Nano sound really good. Previously I was using a Fiio Q1 first generation. The sound of the Fiio always sounded a little metallic in the high frequencies.
The nano is closer to real sounds, I am really happy.
The Sennheiser HD600 sound amazing with the Nano but I am no expert and haven't tested many DACs.
Being able to play 32 bit, higher bitrates and DSD is a big plus, in some tracks I can hear the difference.
It works well with my Windows 8 PC and my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge (USB Audio Pro APP).


----------



## iFi audio

Carabasda said:


> I bought one yesterday. It's my Christmas present, but I have to test if it works you know .
> After trying to decide for a year if I must buy the Mojo or not I think I feel better with myself spending half the money.
> I have not listen to the Mojo ever, but this Nano sound really good. Previously I was using a Fiio Q1 first generation. The sound of the Fiio always sounded a little metallic in the high frequencies.
> The nano is closer to real sounds, I am really happy.
> ...



Nice feedback, thanks!


----------



## MarkAnsworth

I have two related questions.  Both have been asked before separately, but if there were replies, I missed them:

1)  Is their or will there be a firmware upgrade to the nano idsd to make it MQA compatible?

2) does ifi offer a trade-in program for upgrading to a nano iDSD Black Label?

Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

MarkAnsworth said:


> I have two related questions.  Both have been asked before separately, but if there were replies, I missed them:
> 
> 1)  Is their or will there be a firmware upgrade to the nano idsd to make it MQA compatible?
> 
> ...



1. We're looking into a possibility of our older equipment to be MQA viable.
2. In short: no.

Cheers,
iFi Team


----------



## bencherian

I have just got ifi nano idsd light edition. I need a good type c otg cable . What model should i look for ? Should i look for non charging data transfer only cable ?
Need to connect it to mobile phone


----------



## bachankas

I am using my ifi Nano BL since 2 weeks. Amazing DAC/AMP for it's price. It handles my DT990 Edition 250 ohm without any problems.
The sound is slightly warm, punchy and really well controlled. I compared it to NuPrime uDSD and it provides much smoother sound without losing detail comparing to uDSD.


----------



## iFi audio

bachankas said:


> I am using my ifi Nano BL since 2 weeks. Amazing DAC/AMP for it's price. It handles my DT990 Edition 250 ohm without any problems.
> The sound is slightly warm, punchy and really well controlled. I compared it to NuPrime uDSD and it provides much smoother sound without losing detail comparing to uDSD.



@bachankas, thank you for your commentary!


----------



## bachankas

iFi audio said:


> @bachankas, thank you for your commentary!



I have only one question - just for curiosity. Why provided cable is blue? Couldn't you include black one?


----------



## iFi audio

bachankas said:


> I have only one question - just for curiosity. Why provided cable is blue? Couldn't you include black one?



We like blue

On a more serious note, this is the USB3.0 standard colour scheme and that's why we stick to it.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quite an impressive little unit.

Small form, lots of power and low floor noise.


----------



## bachankas

iFi audio said:


> We like blue
> 
> On a more serious note, this is the USB3.0 standard colour scheme and that's why we stick to it.



I expected that answer and understand 
Can someone describe differences in sound between Filter Settings? On my DD990 Edition 250 Ohm I head no difference, as well as my MA750 - I do not have sensitive enough headphones.


----------



## TheoS53

My review for the Nano BL is up! What a great little device


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> My review for the Nano BL is up! What a great little device




Very nicely done. Thank you!


----------



## Dobrescu George

My review on iDSD Nano BL is live now! 

Pretty amazing little device, lots of power for a very affordable price! 

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.com/2018/03/ifi-idsd-nano-black-label-mighty-little-one.html

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ifi-audio-nano-idsd-black-label.22770/reviews#review-20063


----------



## Virtu Fortuna

My Nano iDSD BL Review is online: https://www.headfonia.com/review-ifi-audio-nano-idsd-black-label/


----------



## iFi audio

Virtu Fortuna said:


> My Nano iDSD BL Review is online: https://www.headfonia.com/review-ifi-audio-nano-idsd-black-label/




Many thanks for an awesome review!


----------



## NoTimeFor (Mar 24, 2018)

Just got the nano BL. FW that came with was 5.2. When I played any music including MQA via MacBook Air / Tidal desktop application (All 3 checks enabled beside DAC setting), LED was yellowish. Updated the FW to 5.3C RC2, now LED is all White with very faint hint of blue for any music including MQA I tried. Even when I try YouTube video, the LED colour won't change. Is that normal?

How do I know the current battery power level?

Edit: i tried the nano with my speakers set up. I have AQ 3.5mm <-> RCA adapter so hooked up my amp through the direct headphone out. My God, It sounded so good! Better than schiit freya and Bimby combo, Imo. Not as good as Hugo2 but it is really good!


----------



## bildar

anyone tried a nano BL connected to a iCan Pro?


----------



## iFi audio

bildar said:


> anyone tried a nano BL connected to a iCan Pro?



We will be curious about this as well.


----------



## iFi audio

NoTimeFor said:


> Just got the nano BL. FW that came with was 5.2. When I played any music including MQA via MacBook Air / Tidal desktop application (All 3 checks enabled beside DAC setting), LED was yellowish. Updated the FW to 5.3C RC2, now LED is all White with very faint hint of blue for any music including MQA I tried. Even when I try YouTube video, the LED colour won't change. Is that normal?



The best thing to do is to open a support ticket: http://support.ifi-audio.com We'll gladly help you. The white LED is normal.



NoTimeFor said:


> How do I know the current battery power level?



If LED light goes red, it means that your battery charge is 10% or less.



NoTimeFor said:


> Edit: i tried the nano with my speakers set up. I have AQ 3.5mm <-> RCA adapter so hooked up my amp through the direct headphone out. My God, It sounded so good! Better than schiit freya and Bimby combo, Imo. Not as good as Hugo2 but it is really good!



We are happy if you are happy!


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, you probably know already that our big MQA update is here already. We still have some aces left up in our sleeves, but for the sake of spreading the good word, we'll post our official release here as well:

*Extra Ordinary MQA Easter Egg*







*Introduction*

With Easter just around the corner, iFi audio has delivered an eagerly anticipated upgrade option as a very special Easter gift.

iFi first introduced MQA into its product mix with the nano iDSD Black Label in November 2017. Since then, iFi customers across the globe have been asking when this option would be available in other iFi products. The good news is that the latest improvements to the nano Black Label firmware version 5.30, ‘Cookies & Cream’, does just that.

*Mqa for all*

This latest firmware flavour not only adds the latest scoop to the nano iDSD Black Label sundae but it also dishes out MQA (Master Quality Authenticated) audio to the full range* of iFi audio products going back to 2013!






This ‘legacy’ update means that you can now download the MQA upgrade (PC and Mac) straight from the Support section of iFi’s website at no extra cost.

*Mqa optimised*

Firmware version 5.30 will optimise your device for MQA and can handle up to DSD256 and PCM384. Enjoy the MQA magic like never before.



*And Finally…*

None of the above would have been possible without the MQA software engineers who worked tirelessly alongside the iFi software team to make this unique opportunity happen. Thank you.

Go to https://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/mqa-firmware/ to enjoy your upgrade.

This firmware provides MQA rendering as this is the ideal solution for portable products and those with power considerations. This means the workload is shared between the host (the computer) and the client (the DAC). The listener will still enjoy full MQA experience.

For more information on MQA, go to http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/how-it-works

Legacy

*The only exception is the original iDAC.


----------



## iFi audio

*Easter ‘Bug Bounty’ Hunt.
Hunt 'em, wherever they are...
*

*
Introduction*

Our just announced firmware v5.30 is MQA capable and in one fell swoop, elevates legacy iFi products* with MQA capability for even more sonic enjoyment.

The MQA integration was a little difficult. It involved:

Totally replacing the customised core code
Re-apply tuning/core loading and
Further fine tuning the firmware for even more precise allocated resource use in order to allow us to support MQA _and_ 384kHz.

To bring all this to fruition required the combined efforts of the MQA and iFi software developers or a total of +1,000 programming hours to deliver firmware v5.30 (excluding testing on all iFi legacy units).

Notwithstanding, there _may_ still be one or two software bugs we have not quashed – hence we would like to involve you, the customer – in the Easter Bug Hunt.

*More details are to be found in this thread:*

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-easter-‘bug-bounty’-hunt.876057/


----------



## DarwinOSX (Apr 23, 2018)

I just got one of these and firmware won't update on a Mac and I don't get a magenta light for MQA from Tidal..
I'm using it with a USB-C MacBook Pro and I keep reading about USB-C issues with the iFi.
I sent a support ticket off


----------



## iFi audio

DarwinOSX said:


> I just got one of these and firmware won't update on a Mac and I don't get a magenta light for MQA from Tidal..
> I'm using it with a USB-C MacBook Pro and I keep reading about USB-C issues with the iFi.
> I sent a support ticket off



That's good, we'll be able to help you out from there. One thing to know for now thoug is that old, silver nano iDSD units don't have magenta LEDs inside. Hence when you play MQA, you'll see white colour instead.


----------



## DarwinOSX

This is a just purchased from Amazon Nano iDSD BL.  The only color that shows is green.
How long does it normally take to get a reply from technical support?


----------



## iFi audio

DarwinOSX said:


> This is a just purchased from Amazon Nano iDSD BL.  The only color that shows is green.
> How long does it normally take to get a reply from technical support?



One or two working days, though this time may get a bit longer. It depends on a ticket subject and complexity of an issue. 

Nano iDSD BL should have magenta coloured LED once MQA is on. If it's not visible, then it's highly likely that there's something off with software you use and here our support team should direct you to solve this puzzle.


----------



## DarwinOSX

It was three days for a reply and so far all they are telling me is to use a PC instead of a Mac to update the firmware.
Which is odd since I'm sure a lot of your customers are Mac users.


----------



## DarwinOSX

So now ifi support just doesn’t reply. I guess Mac users should not buy ifi products. Returned to amazon with a one star review.


----------



## rutter

How does the sound of the Micro BL compare to that of the Nano BL? Currently have the Nano BL and am not a big fan. Also, I'm very surprised at people who claim that it drives 250+ ohm headphones well. When I tried it with DT 770 it barely drove them. It also just drives Hifiman HE-400i. Only the Edition X had room left over. I wouldn't recommend this device for harder to drive headphones one bit. But I am looking for a DAC/amp to properly support Edition X v2 as I'm being told its held back by something like the Nano. I'm wondering if the Micro will be a big difference.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

rutter said:


> How does the sound of the Micro BL compare to that of the Nano BL? Currently have the Nano BL and am not a big fan. Also, I'm very surprised at people who claim that it drives 250+ ohm headphones well. When I tried it with DT 770 it barely drove them. It also just drives Hifiman HE-400i. Only the Edition X had room left over. I wouldn't recommend this device for harder to drive headphones one bit. But I am looking for a DAC/amp to properly support Edition X v2 as I'm being told its held back by something like the Nano. I'm wondering if the Micro will be a big difference.



I did a comparison between the 2 the might help you-

Short comparison between micro and nano black label 

To add to that- the micro is definetly a big step up due to its power and versatility. The bass boost is also excellently designed and very useful to me.


----------



## rutter (Apr 28, 2018)

Well, that's a little disturbing. I'm trying to get the most out of Hifiman Edition X v2, which despite the price are very easy to drive headphones. I have found the Nano BL to be rather incapable of driving headphones in general but it drives the HEX v2 with room to spare. I was hoping the Micro BL will offer significantly better sound. The Mojo is too harsh sounding to me and makes raising the volume much unpleasant.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

rutter said:


> Well, that's a little disturbing. I'm trying to get the most out of Hifiman Edition X v2, which despite the price are very easy to drive headphones. I have found the Nano BL to be rather incapable of driving headphones in general but it drives the HEX v2 with room to spare. I was hoping the Micro BL will offer significantly better sound. The Mojo is too harsh sounding to me and makes raising the volume much unpleasant.


Trying to define to someone “significantly better sound” is too subjective. I wish you could hear it for your self some time. 

I think the Micro is definitely better, but it also depends on the headphones power needs.


----------



## rutter

There's nothing too subjective about $600 > $200.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

rutter said:


> There's nothing too subjective about $600 > $200.


The Micro is definitely better then the Nano. Sorry I should have just said that in the first place.


----------



## rutter

Thank God for returns.


----------



## TheoS53

rutter said:


> There's nothing too subjective about $600 > $200.



Mathematically, no. But cost does not necessarily have a direct influence on performance, or in this case sound quality. Here's an excerpt from my review of the new MEE M6 Pro 2nd Gen:

_*M6 Pro 2nd Gen vs M7 Pro*
This is perhaps the most important comparison to make, as it serves to illustrate an exceptionally valuable lesson to learn and keep in mind.
There are few things I hate in life, but one of them is the phrase "you get what you pay for". We could perhaps consider it to only be our natural instinct to assume that this idea must be true, but we need to learn, accept, and often remind ourselves that, in reality, it often does not apply and so it simply makes no logical sense to continue to think this way.
It would've been great if we could use the figure on a product's price-tag as a quick reference to how similar products will perform against each other, but out in the real world that connection just isn't something we can reliably rely upon. Often product X will cost you more simply because of the "prestige" associated with the brand-name. Or, you might end up paying more for a product that is created around a more complex design, but that doesn't mean that it'll actually perform objectively better than a similar product using a more simplified design. A comparison between the M6 Pro 2nd Gen and the M7 Pro fits perfectly into that latter example.
Yes the M7 Pro has a hybrid driver setup. So yes, ideally it should be better. But it just simply isn't.
I reviewed the M7 Pro a few months back but I was quite disappointed with it, to say the least. I was super impressed with what MEE Audio was able to pull off with the original M6 Pro, so when the M7 Pro came out (and at triple the price of the M6 Pro), my expectations were high. And now, being able to compare the latest iteration of the M6 Pro against the M7 Pro just further cements my original perception of the M7 Pro.
Honestly, it feels like the price tags of the M7 Pro and that of the M6 Pro 2nd Gen should've been swapped.
Compared to the M6 Pro 2nd Gen, the M7 Pro's sound genuinely is a far cry from anything I would consider to be even remotely "Hi-Fi". The M7 Pro's bass bloat is boomy, and it's overall character is too smooth and rolled off. It's actually got this really weird "dark" presentation. This is especially apparent in the vocal region where voices seem distant and hollow. In stark contrast, the M6 Pro 2nd Gen has way better vocal presence, and just an overall more lively and "correct" signature.
It's genuinely hard to think that the M6 Pro 2nd Gen costs a mere third of what the M7 Pro does, and yet its absolute sound quality is just so much better._


----------



## rutter

Well, an exceptionally valuable lesson for companies might be to price according to quality, as otherwise they might learn, accept, and end up having to remind themselves that in reality it simply makes no logical sense to price otherwise. The real world is more of a two-way street. Let's not get carried away. There's no prestige of a brand name factor here, by the way. It's the same brand. Anyway, I've read some sellers and even iFi commenting that the Micro should sound better and reviews have tended to claim the same. I'll find out for myself and return accordingly. Guess I'll just have to wait to receive the Micro, in the meantime punish myself with the Mojo some more. The price of certainty.


----------



## Dobrescu George

TheoS53 said:


> Mathematically, no. But cost does not necessarily have a direct influence on performance, or in this case sound quality. Here's an excerpt from my review of the new MEE M6 Pro 2nd Gen:
> 
> _*M6 Pro 2nd Gen vs M7 Pro*
> This is perhaps the most important comparison to make, as it serves to illustrate an exceptionally valuable lesson to learn and keep in mind.
> ...



So you liked MEE M6Pro 2nd gen?


----------



## TheoS53

Dobrescu George said:


> So you liked MEE M6Pro 2nd gen?



A LOT!

I don't like it as much as I like the P1, but it's a definite step up from the original M6 and the M7 Pro. For $50, it's excellent!


----------



## Dobrescu George

TheoS53 said:


> A LOT!
> 
> I don't like it as much as I like the P1, but it's a definite step up from the original M6 and the M7 Pro. For $50, it's excellent!



Woah 

I haven't heard either P1 or M7PRo, only P2 and M6Pro 2nd. 

TBH, M6Pro is good for 50$... 

The MEE Modular cable though, that is a truly amazing product. n


----------



## iFi audio

rutter said:


> Thank God for returns.



What can we say, our return policy is generous!


----------



## rutter

I'd rather hear your thoughts on the sound quality of the Micro BL versus the Nano BL. Amazon's return policy seems to apply in general.


----------



## Dobrescu George

rutter said:


> I'd rather hear your thoughts on the sound quality of the Micro BL versus the Nano BL. Amazon's return policy seems to apply in general.



Micro BL is naturally better than Nano BL, more depth, more power, more control, better textures, larger soundstage, more dynamic sound, opens upo possibility to drive more headphones. 

Nano BL works well for IEMs and easy to drive headphones, there maybe Micro BL would need its iEMatch engaged, making Nano BL maybe a bit more practical, but both are excellent devices.


----------



## Bhargu

Is the general consensus that Nano BL can just barely drive HE400i? What about something like HD600? Can it satisfactorily replace desktop amps for these cans?


----------



## rutter

I got a Micro BL and to me it does not sound better at all. The only thing it really does is drive more headphones. Yes, the Nano BL barely drives HE-400i. I really don't know about HD600 and it wouldn't surprise me if it's insufficient.


----------



## Dobrescu George

rutter said:


> I got a Micro BL and to me it does not sound better at all. The only thing it really does is drive more headphones. Yes, the Nano BL barely drives HE-400i. I really don't know about HD600 and it wouldn't surprise me if it's insufficient.



You have the iEMatch engaged on iDSD Micro BL? 

It should sound much better than Nano BL, even as good as nano BL is. 

As for the HD600, Nano BL is borderline not enough for volume alone, they eat a lot of power, at least HD660S eats a lot of power.


----------



## rutter

I have tried everything. Again, it didn't sound better than the Nano. Perhaps you just have one of the many headphones that the Nano doesn't drive that well and didn't compare at the same volume.


----------



## global (May 11, 2018)

Hi

It's been a while since I've been on here and, selfishly, I'm back looking for some help.  I've just acquired a nice, new iFi Nano iDSD BL and I want to use it with my Squeezebox Touch.  The SB is already set up with EDO and works well into an SMSL DAC. I have made sure that the SB and EDO software is the latest as is the firmware of the iDSD.  The SB can 'see' the DAC and shows correct data on the Info screen.  The SB goes through the motions of playing (proper progress) but there is no sound output.  The DAC LED stays blue at all times.  I put the SMSL DAC back and it plays perfectly well.  Since this combination had been categorised as 'Works Perfectly' I had hoped for some sound!   I should mention that I am not using the headphone output but taking 'Line Out' to an external amp and am using the supplied blue USB cable.

Am I missing any settings?  I am no expert but I would have thought that if the SB can see the DAC information the thing should just work.

Any help (or a pointer to a more suitable location to post) will be gratefully received.

TIA

Paul


----------



## iFi audio

global said:


> The DAC LED stays blue at all times.



Have you turned on your nano iDSD BL before connecting it?


----------



## global

iFi audio said:


> Have you turned on your nano iDSD BL before connecting it?


Thanks.

Yes, I have tried both switching on first and switching on after connection.

I'm just getting back to trying this again as I have been enjoying using it through my computer for a while.  I'll post back with progress.

Thanks again.

Paul


----------



## iFi audio

global said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yes, I have tried both switching on first and switching on after connection.
> 
> ...



Alright, feel free to let us know later on how was the ride!


----------



## Fal2okh

Hi
I just bought a second-hand ifi nano idsd(silver) and the problem is whatever I play with it the LED is GREEN, unless I change the DEFAULT FORMAT(16bit 44.1 khz by default) manually in PLAYBACK DEVICE setting to 96khz and 192khz then it change color to yellow and cyan and it stays on that color even when I play mp3s. what am I doing wrong? 
using Foobar2000 and Windows 7.


----------



## iFi audio

Fal2okh said:


> Hi
> I just bought a second-hand ifi nano idsd(silver) and the problem is whatever I play with it the LED is GREEN, unless I change the DEFAULT FORMAT(16bit 44.1 khz by default) manually in PLAYBACK DEVICE setting to 96khz and 192khz then it change color to yellow and cyan and it stays on that color even when I play mp3s. what am I doing wrong?
> using Foobar2000 and Windows 7.



The device seems to be fine as it changes colours. It's your software settings you need to dig into.


----------



## global

Fal2okh said:


> Hi
> I just bought a second-hand ifi nano idsd(silver) and the problem is whatever I play with it the LED is GREEN, unless I change the DEFAULT FORMAT(16bit 44.1 khz by default) manually in PLAYBACK DEVICE setting to 96khz and 192khz then it change color to yellow and cyan and it stays on that color even when I play mp3s. what am I doing wrong?
> using Foobar2000 and Windows 7.



Google for 'Bit-perfect playback foobar'.  There are many tutorials.  Basically, you have to stop Windows doing its own thing with the playback.


----------



## Fal2okh

iFi audio said:


> The device seems to be fine as it changes colours. It's your software settings you need to dig into.



Thanks. the headphone input is loose though and it affects the sound when I play with it. it's too soon to open it now but I think I have to eventually.



global said:


> Google for 'Bit-perfect playback foobar'.  There are many tutorials.  Basically, you have to stop Windows doing its own thing with the playback.


I fixed it with Kernel Streaming. should I install ASIO too? is it better? 
thanks for your reply.


----------



## rayliam80

Has anyone had any luck with OTG USB C for the nano iDSD BL specifically with LG or the LG V30? I still bought the iFi despite reviews early on saying that there was trouble connecting to it to the V30 since I use it exclusively with my laptops for now. But now that I understand more about iEMatch, I'd kinda hate to spend $50 for the IEMatch adapter just to use with my V30. I've tried two different OTG USB C cables and no luck with the V30 detecting it. Just wondering if anyone has any leads on a compatible cable or a possible fix/solution.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

@iFi audio please tell me if there is a “no question asked” return policy for the Nano (and other iFi products) from Amazon? I’m looking into something transportable to use with my laptop. Really liked the Micro but my budget doesn’t allow for much right now


----------



## rutter

There is. I've used it twice.


----------



## iFi audio

rutter said:


> There is. I've used it twice.


----------



## global

Hi all.

I'm returning to this thread to report that after a long break, using my iDSD from my computer, I returned to connecting it to my SB Touch and it just worked!  The only difference is that i used a different and high-quality USB cable.  So it might just have been a cable issue.

Cheers.

Paul


----------



## iFi audio

global said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I'm returning to this thread to report that after a long break, using my iDSD from my computer, I returned to connecting it to my SB Touch and it just worked!  The only difference is that i used a different and high-quality USB cable.  So it might just have been a cable issue.
> 
> ...



It's good that it works for you again!


----------



## Tonza

I got the Nano iDSD BL to replace my FiiO Q1 which didn't pair well at all with AFO. Though I mainly use it with my portable cans.
The bass boost was useful at times though.

Have been testing the Nano for a few days and my desktop amp hasn't seen any use. I really like this thing.
I read that keeping it plugged in to computer shouldn't overcharge the battery? (leading to faster battery degradation)


----------



## iFi audio

Tonza said:


> I got the Nano iDSD BL to replace my FiiO Q1 which didn't pair well at all with AFO. Though I mainly use it with my portable cans.
> The bass boost was useful at times though.
> 
> Have been testing the Nano for a few days and my desktop amp hasn't seen any use. I really like this thing.
> I read that keeping it plugged in to computer shouldn't overcharge the battery? (leading to faster battery degradation)



It won't, the circuitry inside prevents that.


----------



## radici

Hi guys, I have a few questions...
1. Can I get this to work with Spotify? I'm using a Galaxy S8+ and UAPP works fine, but no sound coming out of Spotify even though file is playing.
2. What OTG do I get to stop the device from charging/drawing power from the phone? Battery going down fairly fast. 
3. Any suggestions re settings in UAPP to maximize best sq and performance? (all Flac and dsd files stored on SD and used in that app.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dobrescu George

radici said:


> Hi guys, I have a few questions...
> 1. Can I get this to work with Spotify? I'm using a Galaxy S8+ and UAPP works fine, but no sound coming out of Spotify even though file is playing.
> 2. What OTG do I get to stop the device from charging/drawing power from the phone? Battery going down fairly fast.
> 3. Any suggestions re settings in UAPP to maximize best sq and performance? (all Flac and dsd files stored on SD and used in that app.
> Thanks in advance.



1. It worked fine on my Mi Max 2, but it overwrites the access for all Audio to iDSD Nano, I think it should be doable, but there should be a setting somewhere to enable this feature. In Xiaomi, you can give USB Soundcards absolutely control over sound, and this is why all apps work fine, I'd search for a similar option for Sammy. 

2. There are a few that are known to do that, but I vaguely remember that you can also flash a certain firmware that would help with this, @iFi audio iFi might be able to point to the right direction, I don't have drain on Mi Max 2 or Sammy T580 as far as I can notice. 

3. If the files are Flac and if the UAPP has correct access, you should have a great experience.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, awesome news!

*EISA* (the European Sound and Imaging Association) has awarded the xDSD as* the Best Portable DAC/Headphone Amplifier for 2018-2019.*

The official release is to be found here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/page-56#post-14422901







 HAPPY!


----------



## iFi audio

Folks...

*IFA 2018 *
*...it's almost here!*



 

*When?*
The 31st Aug - 5 Sept 2018!

*The place?*
Berlin!

*Where exactly?*
Hall 1.2, stand 206, WOD Audio (iFi's German distributor)

You'll have a chance to preview our EISA award winner - xDSD! Our two lovely girls - *Victoria* and *Sarah *- will be there supported by *Thorsten Loesch* himself.

If you'll attend, please visit us!


----------



## rayliam80

rayliam80 said:


> Has anyone had any luck with OTG USB C for the nano iDSD BL specifically with LG or the LG V30? I still bought the iFi despite reviews early on saying that there was trouble connecting to it to the V30 since I use it exclusively with my laptops for now. But now that I understand more about iEMatch, I'd kinda hate to spend $50 for the IEMatch adapter just to use with my V30. I've tried two different OTG USB C cables and no luck with the V30 detecting it. Just wondering if anyone has any leads on a compatible cable or a possible fix/solution.



I forgot that I had asked this question and figured out the solution. FWIW, both cables do work after all with the V30 but it's the order in how you connect it. First, connect the OTG USB C cable to the phone's usb connector. THEN connect the Nano. If you do it in any other order, UAPP or Neutron will not recognize the Nano as connected. I felt like kicking myself when I figured this out a month ago after having given up on it.


----------



## iFi audio

rayliam80 said:


> I forgot that I had asked this question and figured out the solution. FWIW, both cables do work after all with the V30 but it's the order in how you connect it. First, connect the OTG USB C cable to the phone's usb connector. THEN connect the Nano. If you do it in any other order, UAPP or Neutron will not recognize the Nano as connected. I felt like kicking myself when I figured this out a month ago after having given up on it.



We're glad it works for you now, enjoy!


----------



## Shotgunsingh

bedlam inside said:


> Hi,
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


What is the range of impedance that it can drive. 

I have read in many posts that headphone up to the range of 1000 omh. 
But I'm really not clear on details.


----------



## ippon

Left channel when plugged into IEMatch not working on my BL...Direct is fine, as is line out...anyone had this issue before?


----------



## iFi audio

ippon said:


> Left channel when plugged into IEMatch not working on my BL...Direct is fine, as is line out...anyone had this issue before?



Please tell us about it via our support bage to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/

...and we'll do our best to diagnose the issue if there's one and help you out.


----------



## ippon

iFi audio said:


> Please tell us about it via our support bage to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/
> 
> ...and we'll do our best to diagnose the issue if there's one and help you out.



Many thanks for the swift reply, ticket raised


----------



## Ander

Hi! I am concerned about connecting iFi iDSD Nano (Usb 2.0) to a smartphone through a USB Type-C 3.1 (with iFi OTG cable that is 3.0 version, for example). If I *forget to turn on* iFi iDSD DAC *before* attach to the Smartphone: 1) Will It try to use Smarphone's power (3.1) at higher amperage/voltage, damaging iFi  iDSD (2.0)?


----------



## iFi audio

Ander said:


> Hi! I am concerned about connecting iFi iDSD Nano (Usb 2.0) to a smartphone through a USB Type-C 3.1 (with iFi OTG cable that is 3.0 version, for example). If I *forget to turn on* iFi iDSD DAC *before* attach to the Smartphone: 1) Will It try to use Smarphone's power (3.1) at higher amperage/voltage, damaging iFi  iDSD (2.0)?



It will use your smqartphone's power, yes, but won't be damaged, no worries.


----------



## reeza

Hi All. 

I have two DAP’s an Hidiz AP200 and HiBy R3, neither seem to be happy working with my iFi nano. The AP200 pops/clicks and the R3 isn’t sending out true bit perfect/ or giving the iFi exclusive access (the sounds is still flavoured by the R3) The iFi nano works perfectly with my Mac and PC as the source but not these DAPs.

Anyway over fighting with these two DAPs, so I’m looking for a hopefully affordable, even secondhand DAP that will fully support the iFi nano giving it full access to allow the iFi to do all the work and not the DAP for processing. It’s doesn’t have to sound that great independently as it’s only for transport. Needs USB C and preferably DSD.

Cheers.


----------



## Brava210

Hi,

Is there any kind of split cable available so it can be charged while in use?
I use it as a desktop DAC so having to keep charging it is a pain.

Gary


----------



## Brava210

Anyone?


----------



## global

The order in which you connect the cables and operate the on/off switch determines whether it runs from battery or external power. This is shown in the manual.

Apologies if this is not what you are asking.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brava210 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there any kind of split cable available so it can be charged while in use?
> I use it as a desktop DAC so having to keep charging it is a pain.
> ...



The answer from @global is how you'd want to fix this issue, make them charge while in usage 



global said:


> The order in which you connect the cables and operate the on/off switch determines whether it runs from battery or external power. This is shown in the manual.
> 
> Apologies if this is not what you are asking.


----------



## bachankas

Brava210 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there any kind of split cable available so it can be charged while in use?
> I use it as a desktop DAC so having to keep charging it is a pain.
> ...



If you plug iFi, then turn on it will be charged while using. You need to remember to have Nano turned off before turning your PC on.


----------



## iFi audio

bachankas said:


> If you plug iFi, then turn on it will be charged while using. You need to remember to have Nano turned off before turning your PC on.


----------



## pnzr (Feb 6, 2019)

With my FiiO FH5 I get some white noise using this trough the Direct port...is this normal? The IEMatch port doesn't sound as lush to me even when I up the volume.
It's not really bothering me and I heard before that this is something that occurs with very sensitive IEMs like the Andromedas....are the FH5 also considered to be very sensitive? It doesn't occur with my XBA-N3s.


----------



## Mirimar

pnzr said:


> With my FiiO FH5 I get some white noise using this trough the Direct port...is this normal? The IEMatch port doesn't sound as lush to me even when I up the volume. It's not really bothering me and I heard before that this is something that occurs with very sensitive IEMs like the Andromedas....are the FH5 also considered to be very sensitive? It doesn't occur with my XBA-N3s.



The IEMs I have tried with the nano BL have a little hiss from the direct input - for example I have tried the FH5 which have 112 dB sensitivity, Orion CK 114 dB and now I have the DM6 with 122 dB sensitivity (all these IEMs have BAs). Like you, I don’t find the iEMatch input to sound as good as the direct input (just my opinion here) and I think it’s because IEMs with multi BAs prefer an output impedance as close to 1 Ohms as possible to keep the original sound signature.

The iEMatch input on the nano black label has < 4 Ohms whist the direct input is < 1 Ohms. Anyway, I’ve ordered one of these to address the issue as the “ultra” setting on this gets the output impedance back down to < 1 Ohms.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/

PS - If any of this is incorrect, someone please correct what I’ve said here


----------



## TLDRonin

Anyone have experience driving the He-400i or Sundara on the nano BL? How is it?


----------



## iFi audio

Mirimar said:


> PS - If any of this is incorrect, someone please correct what I’ve said here



You did good!


----------



## MikeT.

iFi audio said:


>



I have a very frustrating re-charging problem with my Nano iDSD Black Label which I love.  Connected to a Mac Mini with Fusion Drive, purchased new about two years ago. 

Plug the Nano into USB port, turn computer on, then turn on Nano.  Plays beautifully.  Listen for two to three hours, then turn the Nano off.....no blue charging light.  Turn on Nano, play more music, turn off Nano, no blue charging light. At some point the RED low charge light comes on and the Nano will not charge. EXCEPT when I unplug then REPLUG the Nano into a different USB outlet, then the blue LED comes on which indicates charging. 

I’ve had this unit replaced, by iFi, excellent customer service. But I’m still having the same issue. Any help is appreciated.  I really like the sound of the iFi iDSD Black Label but it’s very frustrating to keep track of unplugging/replugging charge process. Is it a Mac Mini issue or combo issue?  Should I just get the Micro iDSD2 without battery?  

Thanks in advance.


----------



## iFi audio

MikeT. said:


> I have a very frustrating re-charging problem with my Nano iDSD Black Label which I love.  Connected to a Mac Mini with Fusion Drive, purchased new about two years ago.
> 
> Plug the Nano into USB port, turn computer on, then turn on Nano.  Plays beautifully.  Listen for two to three hours, then turn the Nano off.....no blue charging light.  Turn on Nano, play more music, turn off Nano, no blue charging light. At some point the RED low charge light comes on and the Nano will not charge. EXCEPT when I unplug then REPLUG the Nano into a different USB outlet, then the blue LED comes on which indicates charging.
> 
> ...



Highly likely USB ports on your Mac. At least that's what the same story with two alike products might imply. Can you please use our support platform again please?

http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## iFi audio

MikeT. said:


> Plug the Nano into USB port, turn computer on, then turn on Nano.



Please make sure the USB port has power before turning on the nano iDSD BL. 

It could be that the USB port does not actually supply power after turning on the Mac, hence iDSD nano enters battery mode.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Mar 15, 2019)

Anyone own both the Nano BL and xDSD could comment on Sould Quality? Is there a noticeable difference between the two, noticeable Gap? Worth Double the Price of the Nano BL?

I've heard the nano BL occasionally stop working, has this been fix?

Thanks


----------



## Dobrescu George

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Anyone own both the Nano BL and xDSD could comment on Sould Quality? Is there a noticeable difference between the two, noticeable Gap? Worth Double the Price of the Nano BL?
> 
> I've heard the nano BL occasionally stop working, has this been fix?
> 
> Thanks



I haven't had any issues with iNano BL, but I'm in the camp that thinks xDSD is much much better than iNano. Regardless what I'm driving, xDSD is simply an excellent device all-around, while iNano BL is a situational device, a bit too tame and smooth to be as generic as xDSD, which is really universal and just has a good source sound.


----------



## udesign48

iDSD Nano is $71 on Ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ifi-nano-i...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649


----------



## lucifero13

Good day! Im planning to buy one of these and Im wondering if it could bypass thr power supply (battery) if its connected to a PC? Many thanks!


----------



## Kane Williams

lucifero13 said:


> Good day! Im planning to buy one of these and Im wondering if it could bypass thr power supply (battery) if its connected to a PC? Many thanks!


Yes, if you don’t have the DAC switched on before you connect it to the computer it will run from the USB port when you switch it on.

The quality is marginally improved when run from its own battery apparently.


----------



## lucifero13

Kane Williams said:


> Yes, if you don’t have the DAC switched on before you connect it to the computer it will run from the USB port when you switch it on.
> 
> The quality is marginally improved when run from its own battery apparently.



So SQ is better when used with its own battery?


----------



## Kane Williams

lucifero13 said:


> So SQ is better when used with its own battery?



That is what iFi state yes. I cannot say for sure I have noticed a difference. However, i use a split USB cable that has the data and the power separated (using two ports on the laptop), so this MAY help if the power coming from the computer is not as clean as from the internal battery of the iDSD.


----------



## iFi audio

Kane Williams said:


> power coming from the computer is not as clean as from the internal battery of the iDSD



What comes out of a PC in most cases ain't clean.


----------



## Dobrescu George

lucifero13 said:


> So SQ is better when used with its own battery?



Yes, batteries are the cleanest for of power, everything else is a certain degree of dirty, your PC being the most dirty stuff you have ever seen 99% of times  

I have a gaming grade PC, with a lot of high-end tech, and it is extremely dirty and noisy in the USB outputs, when it comes to its power


----------



## lucifero13

Thank you for the inputs guys! Im looking for something to replace my Oppo HA2. I know is a sidegrade, but my budget only allows until Nano and I dont do portable setups.


----------



## lucifero13

Double


----------



## Dobrescu George

lucifero13 said:


> Thank you for the inputs guys! Im looking for something to replace my Oppo HA2. I know is a sidegrade, but my budget only allows until Nano and I dont do portable setups.



If you could get xDSD, it is a huge step up


----------



## lucifero13

Dobrescu George said:


> If you could get xDSD, it is a huge step up



I would love to, but I money does not allow it. I need to sell my HA2 first.   btw, I am planning to buy the BL one.


----------



## Dobrescu George

lucifero13 said:


> I would love to, but I money does not allow it. I need to sell my HA2 first.   btw, I am planning to buy the BL one.



BL Micro, or BL Nano?  

I think that Nano isn't the best example of iFi's devices, most of them outperform it heavily


----------



## iFi audio

Dobrescu George said:


> I think that Nano isn't the best example of iFi's devices, most of them outperform it heavily



It was designed to be affordable and up there on performance, but not the best one we have


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> It was designed to be affordable and up there on performance, but not the best one we have


Out of interest, in terms of sonic performance (outright quality, not power etc), which section would you say is the Nano BL's bottleneck, the amp or DAC? i.e would connecting an external amp really bring out the Nano's true colours (or lack thereof)?


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Out of interest, in terms of sonic performance (outright quality, not power etc), which section would you say is the Nano BL's bottleneck, the amp or DAC? i.e would connecting an external amp really bring out the Nano's true colours (or lack thereof)?



No such thing as one specific section bottlenecking everything else. At least that's not how we do our products. The goal was to fit in a given price bracket and do the best we could. You be the judge whether we delivered


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> No such thing as one specific section bottlenecking everything else. At least that's not how we do our products. The goal was to fit in a given price bracket and do the best we could. You be the judge whether we delivered



Umm, ok, perhaps let me try asking it in a different way then. 
If a person purchased the Nano BL and wanted to get the best possible audio experience from it, would you say in objective terms that they will get all they can by just plugging their headphones into the headphone port on the front, or would there be a benefit to hooking up an external amplifier of superior technical capabilities (which are not power output related)?


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Umm, ok, perhaps let me try asking it in a different way then.
> If a person purchased the Nano BL and wanted to get the best possible audio experience from it, would you say in objective terms that they will get all they can by just plugging their headphones into the headphone port on the front, or would there be a benefit to hooking up an external amplifier of superior technical capabilities (which are not power output related)?



xDSD is a DAC in the first place and one with a nice headphone out, xCAN is a headphone amp before all else and has a nice DAC inside. Now to follow in this direction Nano BL was designed to be a portable integrated machine in the first place, it's as much a DAC as it is a headphone amp.


----------



## imackler

Quick question: If the battery on my Nano BL gets to the point it can no longer hold a charge, can I still use it out of my laptop, as long as I turn on my laptop before connecting the Nano? Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

imackler said:


> Quick question: If the battery on my Nano BL gets to the point it can no longer hold a charge, can I still use it out of my laptop, as long as I turn on my laptop before connecting the Nano? Thanks!



Yup, it should run on USB power.


----------



## Keno18

Playing PCM files up sampled to DSD128 through Foobar with SACD input and DSD Processor components (freeware). Monumental improvement in sound quality. Really shows off the nano. Anyone interested?


----------



## iFi audio

Keno18 said:


> Playing PCM files up sampled to DSD128 through Foobar with SACD input and DSD Processor components (freeware). Monumental improvement in sound quality. Really shows off the nano. Anyone interested?



Yes, we've been there


----------



## ill Kabong

So I accidentally left my nano BL turned on over a two day period. It is charging and it plays but the battery life is only about 3 hours now, is the battery toast or with enough full recharges will it come back to the 8ish hours I was previously getting out of it?


----------



## iFi audio

ill Kabong said:


> is the battery toast



That's unlikely. Give it some time to fully recharge. If this doesn't help, please do let us know here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php

Thanks!


----------



## ill Kabong

iFi audio said:


> That's unlikely. Give it some time to fully recharge. If this doesn't help, please do let us know here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php
> 
> Thanks!


Ok that’s good news, thank you! Still loving this thing, it seems as if my headphones are constantly on my head nowadays.


----------



## iFi audio

ill Kabong said:


> Ok that’s good news, thank you! Still loving this thing, it seems as if my headphones are constantly on my head nowadays.



Enjoy!


----------



## Opus131 (Jul 18, 2019)

Couple of questions about this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Label-...iFi+Nano+iDSD&qid=1563458412&s=gateway&sr=8-3

First, will it be better than a Schiit stack using Modi/Vali?

But more importantly, does the battery continue to charge once it's full? I'm planning to buy this for desktop use on top of portable one, and i don't want to ruin the battery by keeping it plugged it on my PC if it the battery keeps charging even when at full capacity.


----------



## iFi audio

Opus131 said:


> First, will it be better than a Schiit stack using Modi/Vali?



As cool cats with other manufacturers, we can't answer that 



Opus131 said:


> But more importantly, does the battery continue to charge once it's full? I'm planning to buy this for desktop use on top of portable one, and i don't want to ruin the battery by keeping it plugged it on my PC if it the battery keeps charging even when at full capacity.



Our battery based products have some tricks to prevent battery damage, i.e. in desktop mode it won't be fully charged. No worries, however for purely desktop solutions we'd pick something purely desktop.


----------



## Keno18

iFi audio said:


> As cool cats with other manufacturers, we can't answer that
> 
> 
> 
> Our battery based products have some tricks to prevent battery damage, i.e. in desktop mode it won't be fully charged. No worries, however for purely desktop solutions we'd pick something purely desktop.


As someone who uses it in desktop mode 90% of the time, I use a usb hub with switchable ports. When I 'm not listening to music I switch off the port the nano is plugged into. This way I have the choice to charge or not charge the nano.


----------



## iFi audio

Keno18 said:


> As someone who uses it in desktop mode 90% of the time, I use a usb hub with switchable ports. When I 'm not listening to music I switch off the port the nano is plugged into. This way I have the choice to charge or not charge the nano.



Does it work for you used like so?


----------



## Keno18

iFi audio said:


> Does it work for you used like so?


Absolutely.  Been using it that way for over a year. No ill effects.


----------



## iFi audio

Keno18 said:


> Absolutely.  Been using it that way for over a year. No ill effects.


----------



## natalieann

mine still doesn't change colors based on the type of file. Everything is the light gray color. I don't really care, but is it still work as it is suppose to?


----------



## BobSmith8901 (Jul 22, 2019)

natalieann--

I'm just a user of the Nano BL but here's my experience:

If your Nano BL is updated to the latest firmware (5.30C, not the earlier 5.3 without the C), all PCM will exhibit the same white (or whiteish, very, very  light green in my opinion--I guess it looks light gray to you--yeah it kinda does!) color due to the GTO filter oversampling all PCM to 8X. In my case I get the same white color LED when I play 24/96, 24/192 or 16/44.1 PCM.

With DSD you should get:

DSD 64-- Cyan (kind of a greenish blue)
DSD 128-- Cyan
DSD 256-- Blue

MQA-- Magenta.

If you have the previous 5.3 firmware refer to your Nano BL instructions for the colors (can find online too).

It looks though, from what you're saying about the colors not changing, I have to think that you're talking about the different types of PCM, from CD to Hi-Res, and, as I said, if you have the latest 5.30C firmware, they'll all show the same white LED color.

https://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
(go to other iFi firmware)


----------



## saxelrod92

Just got the Nano today, plugged it into the macbook, and the LED color is like a white/magenta (if looking at it from below its white, if from above its magenta). This is just playing youtube, so is this the new default color for pcm? I see there have been firmware updates over time, so I figure mine has whatever is the most current update since the LED colors no longer match what it says in the manual. Just want to make sure its working as intended, sounds great, so I assume its working correctly.


----------



## iFi audio

saxelrod92 said:


> Just got the Nano today, plugged it into the macbook, and the LED color is like a white/magenta (if looking at it from below its white, if from above its magenta). This is just playing youtube, so is this the new default color for pcm? I see there have been firmware updates over time, so I figure mine has whatever is the most current update since the LED colors no longer match what it says in the manual. Just want to make sure its working as intended, sounds great, so I assume its working correctly.



Which FW have you installed on your device? And which Nano? Black Label? LE? Regular?


----------



## saxelrod92

iFi audio said:


> Which FW have you installed on your device? And which Nano? Black Label? LE? Regular?



Not sure how to check the firmware, but its whatever would be the current one being shipped when bought from amazon. And its the nano BL.


----------



## iFi audio

saxelrod92 said:


> Not sure how to check the firmware, but its whatever would be the current one being shipped when bought from amazon. And its the nano BL.



Firmware related. If white is your LED colour on nano iDSD BL, this means that the GTO filter is engaged just as it should with all PCM.


----------



## saxelrod92

iFi audio said:


> Firmware related. If white is your LED colour on nano iDSD BL, this means that the GTO filter is engaged just as it should with all PCM.



Thanks! Seems to line up with what other people have mentioned. Everything is working great regardless, appreciate the reply.


----------



## iFi audio

saxelrod92 said:


> Thanks! Seems to line up with what other people have mentioned. Everything is working great regardless, appreciate the reply.



Sure, anytime.


----------



## ippon

Has anyone actually used a 3.5mm balanced connection with this unit?  I am trying to use my TIN P1's with a balanced 2.5mm connector -> 3.5mm balanced adaptor...only get right channel 

Using this connector; https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/avencore-4-pole-trrs-25mm-female-to-35mm-male-adaptor.html

Highly doubt the connector is faulty, have had nothing but good experiences from this retailer.  Just curious if anyone has actually used 3.5mm balanced with the BL Nano successfully before i get another adaptor...


----------



## BobSmith8901 (Oct 17, 2019)

ippon said:


> Has anyone actually used a 3.5mm balanced connection with this unit?  I am trying to use my TIN P1's with a balanced 2.5mm connector -> 3.5mm balanced adaptor...only get right channel
> 
> Using this connector; https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/avencore-4-pole-trrs-25mm-female-to-35mm-male-adaptor.html
> 
> Highly doubt the connector is faulty, have had nothing but good experiences from this retailer.  Just curious if anyone has actually used 3.5mm balanced with the BL Nano successfully before i get another adaptor...



I have a Nano Black Label with the 3.5mm balanced jack. I don't have any experience with that particular adapter but I bought this similar one off Amazon and it works fine and converts my 2.5mm balanced to the 3.5mm balanced jack on the Nano. Both channels work and I assume I'm getting the balanced output iFi claims. I've heard that some of those adapters like the one you have can have issues and not be true TRRS to TRRS converters. Or there could be some incompatibility with your P1's connector. Hard to say.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GMTXSNZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also have a 3.5mm TRRS balanced cable for my Senn 6XX's I got off ebay. These are primarily sold for those who have the HiFiMan DAPs with their unusual 3.5mm balanced outputs but works with the Nano's 3.5mm balanced output too. Not sure if there would be one for your IEMs but you could have a look. Mine isn't listed anymore but this is similar to the one I bought . This guy is a good seller too.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-cores-Ear...hash=item34154b49f2:m:m0xh9P6ZIrEM9yG6IyX2tdg


----------



## perrycucko (Oct 17, 2019)

If i understand it correctly FW version 5.3 added MQA to legacy Nano IDSD too. Is that correct ?

Edit: the C subversion of the same fw also brings a GTO filter which upsamples all PCM inputs. Does the regular version of 5.3 have this too ?


----------



## amature101

I just purchased using ifi nano BL, I realized that it does not play sound when connect to my dell P2715Q. Is there any solution to this problem?


----------



## iFi audio

amature101 said:


> I just purchased using ifi nano BL, I realized that it does not play sound when connect to my dell P2715Q. Is there any solution to this problem?



Please let us know here: https://support.ifi-audio.com



perrycucko said:


> If i understand it correctly FW version 5.3 added MQA to legacy Nano IDSD too. Is that correct ?



Yup.



perrycucko said:


> Edit: the C subversion of the same fw also brings a GTO filter which upsamples all PCM inputs. Does the regular version of 5.3 have this too ?



Nope, only 5.3C.


----------



## Chimmy9278

Might consider getting one of these.


----------



## bloodyf8

does anybody here pairing nano black with grado headphones?? 
im using grado headphone which is have bulky and thick 3.5mm male plug , will it fully inserted into 3.5mm female plug of nano bl?
( from google image nano bl has kind of spacing / gap around the plug)



 
thanks in advance every single answer im really appreciate it


----------



## iFi audio

bloodyf8 said:


> does anybody here pairing nano black with grado headphones??
> im using grado headphone which is have bulky and thick 3.5mm male plug , will it fully inserted into 3.5mm female plug of nano bl?
> ( from google image nano bl has kind of spacing / gap around the plug)
> 
> thanks in advance every single answer im really appreciate it



It should fit with no issues, but we'd need to check this.


----------



## bloodyf8

iFi audio said:


> It should fit with no issues, but we'd need to check this.


thanks , it would be helpful


----------



## pail (Apr 26, 2020)

Hi, should I get the nano iDSD Black Label or the Hip-Dac, wich one has the best sound ? why the Hip-Dac has one ouput for charging and one output for data and the nano iDSD Black Label has only one input (data/charge) ? cheers


----------



## iFi audio

pail said:


> why the Hip-Dac has one ouput for charging and one output for data and the nano iDSD Black Label has only one input (data/charge) ? cheers



In our X range and hip-dac we did this for our customers to know which USB input does what.



pail said:


> Hi, should I get the nano iDSD Black Label or the Hip-Dac, wich one has the best sound ?



I'd say that nano iDSD BL sounds better, but many folks would say that hip-dac on the same level.


----------



## califmike33

Got a question I just bought the Nano black Hip dacs not available is the hip DAC sound any different than the Nano? Does it have more power than the Nano? Are they using the same Burr Brown chip?


----------



## iFi audio

califmike33 said:


> Got a question I just bought the Nano black Hip dacs not available is the hip DAC sound any different than the Nano? Does it have more power than the Nano? Are they using the same Burr Brown chip?



hip-dac is balanced and more powerful. To see how it goes with cans of choice against nano iDSD BL, please see our headphone calculator: 

https://ifi-audio.com/home/headphone-calculator/

Burr-Brown chips are in both, yes


----------



## califmike33

Thank you


----------



## iFi audio

califmike33 said:


> Thank you



Sure, anytime!


----------



## califmike33

I currently have the Nano sounds pretty good. Pretty good power but I hear a lot of good things about the hip DAC witch you can't even get right now it's sold out everywhere the Nanos a little bit on the thick side to be putting on the backside of a phone that's why I was considering the hip DAC.


----------



## iFi audio

califmike33 said:


> I currently have the Nano sounds pretty good. Pretty good power but I hear a lot of good things about the hip DAC witch you can't even get right now it's sold out everywhere the Nanos a little bit on the thick side to be putting on the backside of a phone that's why I was considering the hip DAC.



Although both are solid choices, we're extremely pleased about hip-dac considering how small and affordable it is.


----------



## califmike33

Yeah I got to try it I are a lot of good things about it I'm just waiting for it to get back in stock so I can try it thank you.


----------



## iFi audio

califmike33 said:


> Yeah I got to try it I are a lot of good things about it I'm just waiting for it to get back in stock so I can try it thank you.



Sure, anytime!


----------



## nhumdorn (Jun 29, 2020)

Can anyone show me the picture of TRRS Balanced 3.5mm wiring to use with iFi Nano iDSD BL?
And also can I use Balanced TRRS with both IEMatch and Direct 3.5mm or just IEMatch?

Thanks.

Example: Is this correct? I want to build an adapter to 2.5mm balanced R-R+L+L-


----------



## iFi audio

nhumdorn said:


> Can anyone show me the picture of TRRS Balanced 3.5mm wiring to use with iFi Nano iDSD BL?



Please see here:

https://media.ifi-audio.com/wp-cont...DSD-BL-balanced-circuit-Tech-Note-Nov-xx-.pdf



nhumdorn said:


> And also can I use Balanced TRRS with both IEMatch and Direct 3.5mm or just IEMatch?



Yes, both its headphone outputs are S-Balanced.


----------



## nhumdorn

iFi audio said:


> Please see here:
> 
> https://media.ifi-audio.com/wp-cont...DSD-BL-balanced-circuit-Tech-Note-Nov-xx-.pdf
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply iFi.
Actually I already have the pdf but still not sure L+ R+ L- R- for wiring (No Left, Right in the picture) ... So I assume that the picture mean like this? TRRS = L+ L- R+ R- ? or else?


----------



## iFi audio

nhumdorn said:


> Thanks for the reply iFi.
> Actually I already have the pdf but still not sure L+ R+ L- R- for wiring (No Left, Right in the picture) ... So I assume that the picture mean like this? TRRS = L+ L- R+ R- ? or else?



I'm in 99% certain it's L+ R+ L- R-, but I'll double-check that.


----------



## jhm3

bunkey said:


> I've never used that before, so do I open the chase and spray around headphone jack connecting area? What I do to temporary fix the problem is poke my finger to headphone jack, move around till both channel come up. :/


*I know it is ridiculous for me to be posting this long after this thread originated, but I have had this problem (2020) and iFi Support suggested it was either weak contact spring in the jack or dirty contacts. Because of the design of these jacks, when a headphone plug is inserted into the jack, there are a pair of contacts that are forced open to disconnect the RCA output. If you plug headphones into the jack and one channel doesn't operate in the RCA's once the plug is removed, (in my case the left channel was open) it can only be one of the two issues that support suggested. So, I uncased the unit and carefully inspected the operation of the jack contacts. Didn’t see anything loose, so used a Q-tip to introduce some Caigs Deoxit D5 into the jack through a hole in the top of the jack cover and used a plug to exercise the springs and contacts. Blew the remaining contact cleaner out of the jack with a computer duster, put it back together, and now working perfectly! I believe that the jack contacts just get dirty or oxidized and need to be cleaned.

*


----------



## iFi audio

jhm3 said:


> *I know it is ridiculous for me to be posting this long after this thread originated, but I have had this problem (2020) and iFi Support suggested it was either weak contact spring in the jack or dirty contacts. Because of the design of these jacks, when a headphone plug is inserted into the jack, there are a pair of contacts that are forced open to disconnect the RCA output. If you plug headphones into the jack and one channel doesn't operate in the RCA's once the plug is removed, (in my case the left channel was open) it can only be one of the two issues that support suggested. So, I uncased the unit and carefully inspected the operation of the jack contacts. Didn’t see anything loose, so used a Q-tip to introduce some Caigs Deoxit D5 into the jack through a hole in the top of the jack cover and used a plug to exercise the springs and contacts. Blew the remaining contact cleaner out of the jack with a computer duster, put it back together, and now working perfectly! I believe that the jack contacts just get dirty or oxidized and need to be cleaned.*


Thanks a lot for oyur input, John! nano iDSD BL is still on sale and there are many folks in here who still use it, so your post surely is meaningful!


----------



## jhm3

Mine is around 10 years old and still in use daily on my desktop system. These things are bullet proof!


----------



## nhumdorn

iFi audio said:


> I'm in 99% certain it's L+ R+ L- R-, but I'll double-check that.


Well done. I already build one L+R+L-R- 3.5mm male to 2.5mm balanced female for AK structure.


----------



## iFi audio

jhm3 said:


> Mine is around 10 years old and still in use daily on my desktop system. These things are bullet proof!


Thanks a lot! I shall pass your feedback to our staff. They'll be happy to see your post! Please enjoy your weekend!  




nhumdorn said:


> Well done. I already build one L+R+L-R- 3.5mm male to 2.5mm balanced female for AK structure.



Looks proper. Works as intended I assume  ?


----------



## bunkey

jhm3 said:


> Caigs Deoxit D5


sorry for the late reply, thanks for the tips, I've retired ifi nano, I might dig it out and give it a try, hopefully it'll fix the problem and possibly sell it


----------



## jhm3

bunkey said:


> sorry for the late reply, thanks for the tips, I've retired ifi nano, I might dig it out and give it a try, hopefully it'll fix the problem and possibly sell it


Hope it works for you. It's very easy to open the case and using a spray contact cleaner should work. I sprayed a little of the Caig's into the cap and used a q-tip to introduce it into the jack. I didn't want to spray that cleaner all over everything.

John


----------



## iFi audio

bunkey said:


> sorry for the late reply, thanks for the tips, I've retired ifi nano, I might dig it out and give it a try, hopefully it'll fix the problem and possibly sell it



Assuming that you'll be able to fix it, what's the next step? Is there any  ?


----------



## bunkey

jhm3 said:


> *so used a Q-tip to introduce some Caigs Deoxit D5 into the jack through a hole in the top of the jack cover *


I don't see a hole in the top of the jack cover, it's covered by a clear plastic, and three little black plastic bits securing the clear cover. Do I have to take off the clear cover?


----------



## jhm3

I didn't take off the cover. The hole I used may be in the back or on the top of the cover. It doesn't really matter where you put the cleaner, as long as you get it on the contacts. If worst comes to worst, you can cover the rest of the interior and use a very quick spray into the headphone jack. I would try to avoid overspray as much as possible, exercise the contacts with the headphone plug and then use a PC compressed air duster to dry it off. Good luck!


----------



## iFi audio

jhm3 said:


> I didn't take off the cover. The hole I used may be in the back or on the top of the cover. It doesn't really matter where you put the cleaner, as long as you get it on the contacts. If worst comes to worst, you can cover the rest of the interior and use a very quick spray into the headphone jack. I would try to avoid overspray as much as possible, exercise the contacts with the headphone plug and then use a PC compressed air duster to dry it off. Good luck!



Helpful tips for many people, thanks for sharing


----------



## magicalmouse

Has anyone replaced the battery, i understand it will work without any battery.

Also what screwdriver do i need to open it?

thanks

d


----------



## magicalmouse

magicalmouse said:


> Has anyone replaced the battery, i understand it will work without any battery.
> 
> Also what screwdriver do i need to open it?



In answer to my own question (thank you ifi for the superb and quick reponse from your support team - Amber and Yolanda), i used a torx t6 (wera) and removed the battery, it works perfectly without the battery.

d


----------



## iFi audio

magicalmouse said:


> In answer to my own question (thank you ifi for the superb and quick reponse from your support team - Amber and Yolanda), i used a torx t6 (wera) and removed the battery, it works perfectly without the battery.



Good to know. But you mean nano iDSD BL, right?


----------



## magicalmouse

iFi audio said:


> Good to know. But you mean nano iDSD BL, right?




Absolutely, am i in the wrong thread.


----------



## iFi audio

magicalmouse said:


> Absolutely, am i in the wrong thread.



Not at all, you're just where you should be with the Nano BL


----------



## Fireroux

How can i know when nano BL full charging ?


----------



## iFi audio

Fireroux said:


> How can i know when nano BL full charging ?



When its blue LED turns off you know that it's fully cherged.


----------



## magicalmouse

Has anyone played with the different firmware and could comment on the sound quality with pcm files (one version against the others)

thanks

d


----------



## iFi audio

magicalmouse said:


> Has anyone played with the different firmware and could comment on the sound quality with pcm files (one version against the others)
> 
> thanks
> 
> d



You might want to serach on Head-fi what people have to say about our optional GTO filter that's applied to all PCM data in our DACs. That's one of the major differences between firmware versions.


----------



## lukipela

My computer went into sleep mode with the nano connected by usb and the headphones were connected. I heard a static pop several times from the headphones when i didn’t have them on, and when i started to use the computer, the volume was maxed out even though the volume pot was physically at 9 o clock. This made my Grados distort and I do have a constant ringing in my right ear now. There’s also a channel imbalance all the way past 11 on the potmeter and it crackles a bit when i change the volume. I already posted a ticket on Ifis support pages a couple of days ago, but haven’t gotten any reply. I followed Ifis guide on how to update to the latest firmware the first time i used it. I’m skeptical about continuing to use it, since I can’t trust the volume pot anymore. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## iFi audio

lukipela said:


> My computer went into sleep mode with the nano connected by usb and the headphones were connected. I heard a static pop several times from the headphones when i didn’t have them on, and when i started to use the computer, the volume was maxed out even though the volume pot was physically at 9 o clock. This made my Grados distort and I do have a constant ringing in my right ear now. There’s also a channel imbalance all the way past 11 on the potmeter and it crackles a bit when i change the volume. I already posted a ticket on Ifis support pages a couple of days ago, but haven’t gotten any reply. I followed Ifis guide on how to update to the latest firmware the first time i used it. I’m skeptical about continuing to use it, since I can’t trust the volume pot anymore. Has this happened to anyone else?



I'm sorry to hear that. From what I can tell I haven't yet seen an issue such as yours. If there's no progress on your ticket within next two days, please let me know!


----------



## lukipela

iFi audio said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. From what I can tell I haven't yet seen an issue such as yours. If there's no progress on your ticket within next two days, please let me know!


They got back to me and the dealer will send me a new unit, as far as I can tell. That still leaves the problem with my tinnitus which I didn’t have before. I asked via ticket on your support page what I’m supposed to do with that problem, but I didn’t get an answer. Anything you might help with? I don’t particularly trust the new unit either.


----------



## iFi audio

lukipela said:


> They got back to me and the dealer will send me a new unit, as far as I can tell. That still leaves the problem with my tinnitus which I didn’t have before. I asked via ticket on your support page what I’m supposed to do with that problem, but I didn’t get an answer. Anything you might help with? I don’t particularly trust the new unit either.


Our support staff usually replies within 48 hours or so, so at this time I'd wait for their message.


----------



## lukipela

I waited for a week more now, no response and when I click the link to the support ticket, i get a 404 error.


----------



## lukipela

Any suggestions on what to do?


----------



## iFi audio

lukipela said:


> Any suggestions on what to do?


Yup, please send me your support ticket number via PM and I'll check it for you


----------



## eelpout

I usually use my iFi Nano iDSD (silver) on an Emotiva UMC-200 with the analog RCA line outs and that works fine. When I try to use the coaxial digital out on the Nano however with the Emotiva, no audio is ever produced and no signal is shown. Unfortunately I don't have another coax digital device to try the Nano out with.

Anyone have any idea why this might not work?


----------



## iFi audio

eelpout said:


> When I try to use the coaxial digital out on the Nano however with the Emotiva, no audio is ever produced and no signal is shown. Unfortunately I don't have another coax digital device to try the Nano out with.


To address this and try to help you out (or at the very least try!), I could use some extra info. Can you please explain how you connect everything and where, and which Emotiva product are we discussing?


----------



## eelpout

iFi audio said:


> To address this and try to help you out (or at the very least try!), I could use some extra info. Can you please explain how you connect everything and where, and which Emotiva product are we discussing?



(thanks for the help!)

Emotiva UMC-200

Coaxial out from the Nano to the CD-1/Coaxial digital input on the Emotiva (I've also tried CD-2 as well, which is just a different coax jack). The UMC-200 is somewhat flexible for adjusting which input jacks are used, especially when using video sources. But there is no way to change the audio inputs for the CD source inputs that I'm using. 

I expected to at least see some activity on the UMC-200 that it received a signal (like I do for optical or HDMI sources) when the Nano is playing a track (tried laptops and iPads for sources), but nothing happens.


----------



## iFi audio

eelpout said:


> Emotiva UMC-200
> 
> Coaxial out from the Nano to the CD-1/Coaxial digital input on the Emotiva (I've also tried CD-2 as well, which is just a different coax jack). The UMC-200 is somewhat flexible for adjusting which input jacks are used, especially when using video sources. But there is no way to change the audio inputs for the CD source inputs that I'm using.
> 
> I expected to at least see some activity on the UMC-200 that it received a signal (like I do for optical or HDMI sources) when the Nano is playing a track (tried laptops and iPads for sources), but nothing happens.



First I would determine whether your UMC-200's coaxial inputs work properly. Can you send signal do them from a device other than nano iDSD BL you have? And are those digital inputs auto-sensing?


----------



## eelpout

iFi audio said:


> First I would determine whether your UMC-200's coaxial inputs work properly. Can you send signal do them from a device other than nano iDSD BL you have? And are those digital inputs auto-sensing?


yep, trying to find another device to do just that. I got a Blu-Ray player recently but haven't hooked it up yet. For sure the optical inputs work on the Emotiva as I  use them all the time.

is it possible there is a "soft" switch on the Nano iDSD to disable digital out? I guess I should try connecting the Nano to my Windows PC with the iFi application running and see what it says for status when it's hooked up.


----------



## eelpout

iFi audio said:


> First I would determine whether your UMC-200's coaxial inputs work properly. Can you send signal do them from a device other than nano iDSD BL you have? And are those digital inputs auto-sensing?


FYI. I connected a Blu-Ray player to the UMC-200 digital coax inputs and they work fine. 

Could the issue be that I flashed the Nano iDSD (silver) to v5.3/MQA firmware? Does that disable the digital out by chance?


----------



## iFi audio

eelpout said:


> Could the issue be that I flashed the Nano iDSD (silver) to v5.3/MQA firmware? Does that disable the digital out by chance?



If you have FW 5.3c installed, then yes, SPDIF is disabled. On FW 5.3 it should work though. Can you please check which one exactly your nano iDSD BL has?


----------



## eelpout (Aug 14, 2021)

iFi audio said:


> If you have FW 5.3c installed, then yes, SPDIF is disabled. On FW 5.3 it should work though. Can you please check which one exactly your nano iDSD BL has?


it says v5.30, but I guess I can try re-flashing and see what happens.

*EDIT:* well, I re-flashed v5.30.bin (fresh download, using the Windows installer files) and it still didn't work. v5.20 does though (!) so I guess I'll stick with that for now. thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

eelpout said:


> *EDIT:* well, I re-flashed v5.30.bin (fresh download, using the Windows installer files) and it still didn't work. v5.20 does though (!) so I guess I'll stick with that for now. thanks.



Sure, anytime!


----------



## lukipela

I finally got my answer. I understand noe why they wouldn’t answer earlier. Thanks for the help with atleast getting a response 🙂


----------



## iFi audio

lukipela said:


> Thanks for the help with atleast getting a response 🙂



Sure thing, and thanks for letting us know that our support staff answered you


----------



## Tripokaridos

Is there a new usb driver and firmware for idsd nano black ? I think i saw a new firmware xmos ? With ps4 ps5 support ?


----------



## iFi audio (Nov 23, 2021)

Tripokaridos said:


> Is there a new usb driver and firmware for idsd nano black ? I think i saw a new firmware xmos ? With ps4 ps5 support ?



Indeed, our Firmware XMOS provides support for PS4/PS5 consoles!


----------



## Tripokaridos

iFi audio said:


> ?Indeed, our Firmware XMOS provides support for PS4/PS5 consoles!


Great i just use it , i love the sound and the stock light behaviour.

These updates prove that iFi support their products even after years. 
Very important and gives me confident to buy more and expensive products from iFi .


----------



## iFi audio

Tripokaridos said:


> Great i just use it , i love the sound and the stock light behaviour.
> 
> These updates prove that iFi support their products even after years.
> Very important and gives me confident to buy more and expensive products from iFi .



Thank you for your confidence in us and your support. It's always a pleasure seeing such feedback!


----------



## docentore

Anyone can recommend replacement battery for iDSD LE? Mine almost exploded damaging PCB (I can fix it) but need to find replacement battery. Preferably the one that wont posses any riosk of exploding.


----------



## iFi audio

docentore said:


> Anyone can recommend replacement battery for iDSD LE? Mine almost exploded damaging PCB (I can fix it) but need to find replacement battery. Preferably the one that wont posses any riosk of exploding.



You could ask at our support site (...by opening a ticket here: https://support.ifi-audio.com) whether we still have any left. The odds are we might


----------



## Tripokaridos (Jul 31, 2022)

docentore said:


> Anyone can recommend replacement battery for iDSD LE? Mine almost exploded damaging PCB (I can fix it) but need to find replacement battery. Preferably the one that wont posses any riosk of exploding.


Both my Le and now Black had battery problems , iFi must use the worst Quality.  I am on my second nano black battery and guess what ? its again broken. So for now i don't use it ( i can find battery on my region but is so expensive that doesnt worth it to risk it again) . 
So what we can do ?  find the specs from the battery and buy something similar , and honestly u can find something that will not explode and last more than stock battery.
If i am not wrong stock battery its 3.7v and very small capacity  1.000mah.   for example u can find something way better with less money like that https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B091YKTT9S . but if u want something way cheaper and close to ifi  specs ... then something with 10-15 euro will do the work.
By the way black does work without battery but to me doesnt sound correct something is missing .

Ps. if u can fix a pcb , then i am sure u can use what ever battery with the shame specs and use the stock cable .


----------



## ywheng89

@iFi audio ,i've got a ifi nano idsd black label, seems like the IEMatch port is having issue, when i fully plug my jack in,only the right channel is playing sound.
if i slightly pull it back,then only left side is playing sound. Occasionally it works, but the right side is always louder than the left (this is when it works). Any idea on how to fix this? can i spray contact cleaner into the port or?
On the direct port, it works fine, no issue at all. Happens to all 3.5mm jack on the IEMATCH port, so i can confirm that it is not my jacks having issue


----------



## iFi audio

ywheng89 said:


> @iFi audio ,i've got a ifi nano idsd black label, seems like the IEMatch port is having issue, when i fully plug my jack in,only the right channel is playing sound.
> if i slightly pull it back,then only left side is playing sound. Occasionally it works, but the right side is always louder than the left (this is when it works). Any idea on how to fix this? can i spray contact cleaner into the port or?
> On the direct port, it works fine, no issue at all. Happens to all 3.5mm jack on the IEMATCH port, so i can confirm that it is not my jacks having issue



I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing that issue. It may be a faulty socket or iEMatch circuit, but it's difficult to say, so I suggest letting our support staff know about this situation here:  https://support.ifi-audio.com

Thanks!


----------



## ywheng89

iFi audio said:


> I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing that issue. It may be a faulty socket or iEMatch circuit, but it's difficult to say, so I suggest letting our support staff know about this situation here:  https://support.ifi-audio.com
> 
> Thanks!


Got it, Thanks a lot, will try to submit a ticket and see how it goes.
By the way, i am from Malaysia and the product is out of warranty already,how will this go about?


----------



## iFi audio

ywheng89 said:


> By the way, i am from Malaysia and the product is out of warranty already,how will this go about?



Sure: a customer usually sends a product out of warranty to our staff to inspect (that service is free of charge). Once that is done, a customer is informed about parts that need replacing and the total cost including labor and shipping. If a customer agrees, then a product is fixed and shiped back. That's all there is to it


----------



## ywheng89

iFi audio said:


> Sure: a customer usually sends a product out of warranty to our staff to inspect (that service is free of charge). Once that is done, a customer is informed about parts that need replacing and the total cost including labor and shipping. If a customer agrees, then a product is fixed and shiped back. That's all there is to it


Got it!
Thanks a lot! Ticket submitted, will see how it goes. Thanks for the speedy response.


----------



## iFi audio

ywheng89 said:


> Thanks a lot! Ticket submitted, will see how it goes. Thanks for the speedy response.



Sure, my pleasure


----------



## Tripokaridos

ywheng89 said:


> @iFi audio ,i've got a ifi nano idsd black label, seems like the IEMatch port is having issue, when i fully plug my jack in,only the right channel is playing sound.
> if i slightly pull it back,then only left side is playing sound. Occasionally it works, but the right side is always louder than the left (this is when it works). Any idea on how to fix this? can i spray contact cleaner into the port or?
> On the direct port, it works fine, no issue at all. Happens to all 3.5mm jack on the IEMATCH port, so i can confirm that it is not my jacks having issue


i have the shame problem on BOTH of my ifi nano black , the first one was changed under warranty .


----------



## iFi audio

Tripokaridos said:


> i have the shame problem on BOTH of my ifi nano black , the first one was changed under warranty .



My advice is to let us know about your issue at our support platform, so our tech staff can try helping you out, thanks!

https://support.ifi-audio.com


----------

