# The Leben CS300XS Thread



## Gu Sensei

I have been on the hunt for an out-of-production Leben CS300x since bringing home and falling in love with my standard CS300. A few days ago, while following my well-beaten path of audio ‘recycle’ shops in Osaka’s electronics district, I noticed a dusty Leben sitting on a shelf near the entrance of one of my favorite haunts. As my eyes widened, the little ‘x’ jumped out as I simultaneously shouted, “Woo-hoo!” It had just been dropped off earlier in the day and had yet to be processed. These things do not stay on the used shelves very long (think hours at best, or minutes for on-line listings). Being at the right place at the right time is the only way I figured to grab one without paying an exorbitant amount through an auction on the rare occasion they show up there. 

 Ecstatic is pretty good word for how I feel right now. However, it is not in my possession at the moment. The shop is giving it a thorough cleaning and check-up and should get back to me in a few more days. Hopefully, it will be all okay, but there is a little twist. I forgot about the two different versions: the CS300x (S) with Sovtek EL84s and the CS300x (Limited) with NOS Mullard EL84s. I did not check when I was at the shop and am obviously hoping for the latter. Regardless, I am happy as a clam as both ‘x’ versions have all the upgraded bits and pieces and the Mullards can be purchased (although not cheaply or easily).

 I will certainly update with the results, but in the mean time, I am curious if anyone has experience with the Lebens or other amps using the EL84s and can make recommendations:

 What are good places would be to buy Mullard EL84s?

 Are there other brands that are well respected and less expensive?

 How much of a difference will I likely notice by going for the more expensive Mullards?

 How long would they usually last?

 Any thoughts, advice, or comments are welcomed as I have zero experience rolling tubes.

 Thanks!

 (Ooh freaky, after posting this, I noticed it was my 300th post.)


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## Bob Jones

Can't help but would like to know how it compared to the apache ?


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## adamus

try the new genelex n709's..... lovely (although i did have to return one because it arced)


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## Blackmore

Basically, you can not go wrong with Mullards, however depends on what is your taste of the sound of course is, so, you may like Telefunkens or Siemens more. Teles, in general, are great overall tubes with great balance overall, but some folks find them "hard" sounding, while Siemens are very spacey/airy where details are top notch, but can sound bit to extended/sterile. Mullards are warm sounding with nice detail and great mids, bass can be "loosy" with some headphones, but the best ones are NOS from the earlier 50's, actually all of them, and that's make them quite expensive to buy. 
 Well, if you going tubes you should know that.Not sure if there any EL84 Tung Sols, but if yes, try them to, cos they are like Teles, but with softer/richer touch. Also Brimars are one that have quite rich/musical sound, so you have some work to do, which is very fun, imo.

 Check here for more info https://www.tubeworld.com/6bq5.htm


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## Skylab

Blackmore is of course talking about REAL Mullards, not the Russian re-issues


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## 928GTS

Tubeworld is a great place for tube info but a terrible place to buy from merely because their prices are so inflated. Look around on the 'Bay for good deals on Mullard EL84's,you'll find them if you look hard enough. Make sure the pictures of the valves in question are clear. You'd certainly notice quite a difference, especially in sound stage and overall smoothness of the sound. Its hard to tell about lifespan as each amplifier puts a different voltage and bias current load on tubes but suffice to say lifespan will be in the thousands of hours.


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## Gu Sensei

Thanks guys, very informative and helpful. After I am really tuned into the sound signature of the current set-up, I will try rolling in some of the suggested tubes. It should be fun.

 I did luck out and found four lovely Mullards in my CS300X when it finally came in. Leben only sold the Limited version with NOS Mullards, so I am assuming that is what is in there, but since I do not know the history of the amp, they could be re-issue replacements. Is there any way to tell? 

 As for the Apache comparison, I never really did a methodical comparison, but each and every time I plugged my D7000s into all the amps on hand, the Leben came out on top. It is quite 'musical' and adds a wonderful warmth and sparkle to the Denon sound signature. It is not thick or tubey at all to my ears. The Apache was cooler and more clinical in comparison. There was probably greater detail retrieval with the Apache, but not by much. The Apache is an incredible amp to be sure and it mated very well with the L3000s and HP1000s when I had them. But the Leben has been the best with my go-to D7000s and is a brilliant integrated amp to boot. Great functionality and one of the sweetest looking amps I have seen. It is keeper indeed and has really suppressed any interest I have in purchasing other amps. 

 This particular amp needs a bit of a make-over though. The CS300X came with gold plated knobs and mine (like many others I have read about) have become corroded. I do not mind so much as I am looking forward to personally dropping the amp off at the Leben factory which happens to be a few towns over from where I live.


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## Blackmore

So, you have the amp with you already, congrats! Just post some pics of the tubes and sure we can see what ever they are. Normaly, they do have codes which may tell the age. PICS pls
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any AKG K1000 you can try with it?


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## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gu Sensei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leben only sold the Limited version with NOS Mullards, so I am assuming that is what is in there, but since I do not know the history of the amp, they could be re-issue replacements. Is there any way to tell?_

 

It should be obvious. First of all, the re-issues should have "Made in Russia" on them.

 Pictures would be interesting, though.


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## Blackmore

Correct
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be obvious. First of all, the re-issues should have "Made in Russia" on them.

 Pictures would be interesting, though._


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## Gu Sensei

Alrighty, here are some glory shots. It was nice to see "Made in Great Britain." She is definitely a diamond in the rough, but it will be fun to get it restored (and hopefully not too expensive). The one shot of the bottom insides I nabbed from the web.


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## Gu Sensei

As for the K1000, Blackmore, I did have a pair (before they got shipped to you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) that I used with my original CS300, but I never used them with any other amp outside of some store demos. They certainly sounded good but with no other real reference points, it would be hard to recommend outside of the nice functionality of an integrated amp with speaker posts for the K1000s and a good headphone jack for other headphones. The Leben's absolutely matched well with the K701s. Those and the D5000s were probably the best synergy I have noticed with the amp. I definitely prefer a more musical presentation and the Leben really adds a nice coloration to more neutral headphones.


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## Frihed89

Let's not be so quick to reject current production Russian tubes. At least one manufacturer of high end gear uses (i think) the Russian 6P14P-EP (6n14n-EV) in his entry level SE amps, which are tha father of the Sovtek tube. 

 You might also go over to the tube asylum at the audio asylum forum and search under EL84 to see what people like over there.

 On the other hand, I have not found a current production 12Ax7 I like, compared to US 1950s-made long black plates with D getters. I did get some nice NOS 1970s Teslas from Tubemonger, but he sold out of those. He has a few left of a somewhat newer tube and a bunch of military Tungsrams which are not bad. Of course, Telefunken smooth plates and Siemens triple mica tubes are still available, the prices for the latter being astronomical.


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## Blackmore

Great pics, thanks. You have the real NOS, cool. You may want to change the 12AX7 for some Brimars, but I would try Tung Sols first, cos Mullards and Brimars, all together, could be bit to much
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On the other hand, if you like the sound already, don't bother with tube rolling, imo, unless its necessary. Also, Leben did choose these for some reason, isn't, so, I would say enjoy the music...
 I don't have that luck with my amp, not that the stock tubes are bad, but I do notice the huge improvements with some NOS I already rolled, so, my search for the best tube set up isn't done yet.
 As for the K1000. I am almost sure if you roll some tubes, you will find the good match for them. Tubes don't sound the same in different amps, so, you may still want to try some in the future.


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## Skylab

Yup, those tubes are the real deal. And what a BEAUTIFUL looking amp! Congrats. I'm jealous


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## Skylab

Hey Gu Sensei -

 My interest in this amp has been piqued again. How have you liked yours?


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## Gu Sensei

Hi Skylab,

 Yeah, this amp is great. It is wonderful with my speakers and fantastic with most headphones I have tried, Grados being a less than perfect match. Everything sounds incredibly clear with great extension in both directions and just a touch of color that really sounds nice through very neutral cans. The gain is an issue as I have to stay below 9 o'clock for both headphones and speakers. I really only have three or four usable ticks on the dial for my Denons. The functionality is nice also with five inputs and a line out. Above all, it is simply the one of coolest looking amps I have seen. It is hard to say how much of my appreciation for its sonics is influenced by its looks. 

 I really want to get this one refurbished but just have not yet had a chance to investigate how to do it and how much it will cost. Based on the address I have encountered, I may very well be able to drop it off in person. 

 I adore mine and despite encountering many interesting amps in my many trips into Osaka's electronics town, I have yet to feel an urge to try anything else out. It pretty much has achieved permanent membership in my rig.

 I would love to hear your thoughts on it if you get a chance to audition one!


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## Skylab

Thanks very much for that! Unfortunately for me, there is no Chicago area dealer than carries them. The bummer is I was just in Tokyo 2 weeks ago, but didn't have time to get to Akihabara, which I usually do on my business trips to Japan. I know I could have picked on up there. In the US the CS300XS is $3,495. So I have to consider it very carefully, especially since I would be using it just for headphones. 

 But I like the circuit topology and tube complement - and yes, the wonderful cosmetics!

 We shall see...still considering it...


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## Gu Sensei

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I know I could have picked on up there._

 

From my wanderings in Akihabara and Nipponbashi in Osaka, I have only seen them carried in one place (Osaka) and that was just for about a month. I think they are usually special orders.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ In the US the CS300XS is $3,495._

 

Ouch. That is crazy-talk. I just searched and see the retail price is 180,000 yen here but in fact, if you go through Price Japan, they will ship one to the US for about $2000. I guess maybe buying in the US gets 110V rather than Japan's 100V. 

 They have seriously come down in price since I checked last. I am a little shocked at how inexpensive they are now. Instead of refurbishing this one, I might just grab a new one and swap in my Mullards. Hmm... 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ But I like the circuit topology and tube complement -_

 

I am definitely not knowledgeable about amps. If you get a chance, I would love to hear what appeals to you about them in terms of design and tubes and maybe what other dedicated headphones amps have a similar topology.


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gu Sensei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 I am definitely not knowledgeable about amps. If you get a chance, I would love to hear what appeals to you about them in terms of design and tubes and maybe what other dedicated headphones amps have a similar topology._

 

I don't claim to be an expert on circuit design, but the CS300XS uses tubes I consider to be excellent sounding (12AX7 gain, EL84/6BQ5 power), and is transformer coupled, so should be able to drive low impedance headphones as well as high, although I note that several people, including you I believe, did not think they were very good with the low impedance Grados. The amp is very nicely point-to-point wired, and the circuit appears to be, and is touted to be, quite simple. Given the rated output power, I assume the Leben is using the EL84 in their native pentode mode, which IME will give is a robust, "meaty" sound, without being overly tubey, all other things being equal.

 Here is an interesting post (and thread) from Audio Asylum about tube-rolling and the CS300: http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...ht=leben+cs300

 There have been a LOT of amps that use 2 x EL84 and 2 x 12AX7 - including my $400 Ming Da MC84C-07, which sounds quite good. But I'm sure there is a much higher level of performance that can be had from an amp of this design.

 Now if only I could get one at a reasonable price. Oh well. The US Distributor, while polite, doesn't seem to see my point that I shouldn't have to pay a dealer in Cleveland 35% margin on a $3,500 when he won't be giving me any support at all - just taking my payment and passing my order to the distributor. So unless I find one used, I will have to admire this amp from afar, I'm afraid.


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## Skylab

Well, I am not sure that anyone cares but me and Gu-Sensei, but through a twist of good-fortune for me, I was able to acquire his CS300X, as he bought a new one. It arrived yesterday. 

 I had not really thought through the fact that the Leben is transformer-coupled - and after getting over the surprise, I realized what a good thing that is for me, as all my other top tube amps are OTL. The Leben gave me the chance to use a tube amp with the low-impedance Denon D7000 and Ultrasone Ed 8. And based on just one day's listening, this is going to be a VERY good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The CS300X sounds fantastic - it is really incredibly good sounding as a headphone amp. I need to do some comparisons, but it may well be the best sounding headphone amp I have. It is certainly among the best.

 Someday I may try it as an integrated amp - but as a headphone amp - it's terrific.


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## Blackmore

Great buy, great amp, pity you dont own K1000, would be interesting read your opinion, cos at 15w p.ch. can be a good match to. Gongrats!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am not sure that anyone cares but me and Gu-Sensei, but through a twist of good-fortune for me, I was able to acquire his CS300X, as he bought a new one. It arrived yesterday. 

 I had not really thought through the fact that the Leben is transformer-coupled - and after getting over the surprise, I realized what a good thing that is for me, as all my other top tube amps are OTL. The Leben gave me the chance to use a tube amp with the low-impedance Denon D7000 and Ultrasone Ed 8. And based on just one day's listening, this is going to be a VERY good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The CS300X sounds fantastic - it is really incredibly good sounding as a headphone amp. I need to do some comparisons, but it may well be the best sounding headphone amp I have. It is certainly among the best.

 Someday I may try it as an integrated amp - but as a headphone amp - it's terrific._


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## argentum

Skylab how it fares with your T1?


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## Skylab

Haven't tried that combination yet - but will soon.


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## Anders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ And based on just one day's listening, this is going to be a VERY good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The CS300X sounds fantastic - it is really incredibly good sounding as a headphone amp. I need to do some comparisons, but it may well be the best sounding headphone amp I have. It is certainly among the best.

 Someday I may try it as an integrated amp - but as a headphone amp - it's terrific._

 

Agreed, I like it very much. I bought it for K1000 but later found that it works very well also with HD800. Actually I can have both connected and switch between them with the headphone/speaker switch. The problem with HD800 is that there are few usable steps on the volume control, but is is a continuous potentiometer and you can set it between the preset steps. I have no problem with the slightly emphasized treble of HD800 with the Leben amp - at least not with the right tubes. The treble can sometimes be a little tiring and unnatural with other amps.

 There have been some demo and used CS300 floating around in Sweden for about 1500 Euro and I found a demo and it is a very good value at this price. It feels like a keeper and I have bought rather many tubes - most moderately priced. I am cautious with NOS output tube that are expensive (e.g. Mullard), hard to find and will worn out. I assume the rarity is the reason that the CS300X model (with Mullards) has been discontinued.

 The stock GE Jan 5751 is not my favorite, although it has a very pleasant and elegant sound with the Sovtek EL84 that are stock tubes in the standard model. As I understand it the same GE 5751 is used also in the more expensive models and giving at a beautiful, smooth coloration in my taste, IME and IMO. Just now I have a Telefunken smooth plate that I prefer and it was not especially expensive as used. I am so satisfied with this and the new stock Gold Lion EL84 that I not yet have fully tried all the tubes I have bought. But tube rolling will go on and is in a preliminary stage. The Leben amp is sensitive to tubes and that makes it difficult to say exactly how it sounds but there are many tube combination that make it shine.

 I also happen to like that the tubes are not visible and the amp is simple to place. Of course it needs some ventilation but it never runs especially hot.


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## Skylab

I'm using all Sylvania tubes - 5751's and 6BQ5's - grey plate in both cases. The sound is very smooth, but not overly tubey. Very, very nice. It's a very robust, organic, involving, and detailed sound. I'm highly impressed.

 Obligatory pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :


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## jpelg

Very nice, Rob. Sweet amp - congrats.

 Thanks for sharing with pics!


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## Skylab

Thanks man! I'm really digging it. I've gone a little nuts with the head-fi purchases this year...my ears are thanking me, but my wallet sure hates me


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## vcoheda

never realized how big it is. know what the weight is roughly.


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## Gu Sensei

Looking good Skylab! That is a nice little set-up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Again, I am really glad you bumped this thread. I truly believed the CS300Xs were out of production and never would have thought to seek out a new one if you hadn't. As far as amps go, this is 'the one' for me and I am super pleased to have a brand spanking new model in my possession. I will try to snap a photo soon. The green bars on yours are a little darker and mine has 'CS300XS' as opposed to just 'CS300X' as on yours.

 It is great to be reading some positive impressions from you and Anders. I have or had the Apache, HA5000, HA-02, and Zana and none have made me want to move on from the Leben- certainly not for my D7000s. With other headphones, I am usually just as happy with the Leben as with any of those other amps, usually just a matter of a different flavor or a clear preference for the Leben. The connectivity, sonics, looks, and dual function as integrated and headphone amp all combine to make a perfect centerpiece for my main rig.

 It is too bad the mark-up is so excessive when selling from dealers overseas. They could be quite popular among Head-Fi members.

 @vcoheda, it is 10.5kgs.


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## Anders

The CS300XS and CS300X are identical except that the latter was delivered with Mullard EL84 and the former with Sovtek. I think the Sovtek tubes are rather good, but not the best. The CS300XS is still in production.

 I have a pair of Sylvania 5751 blackplates but unfortunately one tube is noisy (ground noise independent of volume). Otherwise very nice smoothness and I guess they match well with AT woodies (correction: mistakenly thought that I saw an AT on the picture).

 I would like to compare my CS300 with the other models but it is not very probable that I get an opportunity. My guess is that the difference is rather small. The XS has a more efficient power supply and gives a few watts extra output. I believe that could be useful with speakers but not important for headphones. There are also a few capacitors of higher quality in the more expensive model and that should make some difference, but of course the PS maybe not only delivers more power but also sounds better.

 I think it is because of the limited power for speakers that the Leben amp also has a bass control, and is intended for small speakers that drop in the low bass. In that aspect the K1000 is very similar to small speakers and I sometimes use the bass control with K1000, only the +3 dB setting and get a little extra punch (or rather compensate for the lack bass extension in the headphone). Not purist, but it works!


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## argentum

. Anders already answered to my question.


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## mbllbm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argentum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab how it fares with your T1?_

 


 ???


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## Skylab

Yes, the Leben is VERY heavy - solidly built, and some serious transformers! But it isn't that big really - compact for what it is, as it's a pretty full-featured tube integrated amp.

 Since the only difference between the XS and the X was the supplied tubes, mine is somewhere in between those - as I'm using neither the Sovteks nor the NOS Mullards. But the NOS Sylvanias sound great (and I have used these Sylvania types in other amps where I also thought they sounded good.

 The Leben sounds great with the T1 - I spent some time listening to it last night. I could very happily live with that combination for a long, long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will spend some additional time with that combo this week, but I sure liked it last night.

 What has struck me about the Leben is that it seems to work well with all the headphones I own - regardless of impedance. But what's been really beguiling me is how great it is with the low-impedance Denons. I've absolutely never heard the Denons sound so good. Not surprisingly, none of my OTL tube amps really did the Denons justice, it would seem. I quite frankly did not think the Denond could sound this good. The Leben lets them reveal nuance and detail I didn't think was in them. 

 What's a shame, as Gu-Sensei mentioned, is how expensive the Leben is in the US. I inquired about buying one, and the US Distributor wanted $3,500. Yet Pricejapan will import them for you for about $1800 or so. That is WAY too steep a markup for the local distributor. 30% markup is reasonable - 100% is not. I don't think the Leben will get much of a following in the US at $3,500, which is too bad. It's a very, very nice amp!


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## mbllbm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the Leben is VERY heavy - solidly built, and some serious transformers! But it isn't that big really - compact for what it is, as it's a pretty full-featured tube integrated amp.

 Since the only difference between the XS and the X was the supplied tubes, mine is somewhere in between those - as I'm using neither the Sovteks nor the NOS Mullards. But the NOS Sylvanias sound great (and I have used these Sylvania types in other amps where I also thought they sounded good.

 The Leben sounds great with the T1 - I spent some time listening to it last night. I could very happily live with that combination for a long, long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will spend some additional time with that combo this week, but I sure liked it last night.

 What has struck me about the Leben is that it seems to work well with all the headphones I own - regardless of impedance. But what's been really beguiling me is how great it is with the low-impedance Denons. I've absolutely never heard the Denons sound so good. Not surprisingly, none of my OTL tube amps really did the Denons justice, it would seem. I quite frankly did not think the Denond could sound this good. The Leben lets them reveal nuance and detail I didn't think was in them. 

 What's a shame, as Gu-Sensei mentioned, is how expensive the Leben is in the US. I inquired about buying one, and the US Distributor wanted $3,500. Yet Pricejapan will import them for you for about $1800 or so. That is WAY too steep a markup for the local distributor. 30% markup is reasonable - 100% is not. I don't think the Leben will get much of a following in the US at $3,500, which is too bad. It's a very, very nice amp!_

 



 thx


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## Henmyr

What is lacking with this amplifier driving Grados? It seem to work well for other low impedance headphones.


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## metalgear

i have the 300x. compared to my custom MPX3 slam, it has tighter end and more sparkle on the top end and little more shrill on both my HD650 and D5000.
   
  the mpx3 is certainly warmer and more relaxed. I have JJ EL84's and British Mullard 12Ax7 in the 300x.


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## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





henmyr said:


> What is lacking with this amplifier driving Grados? It seem to work well for other low impedance headphones.


 

 Probably nothing. Just for me, when I had Grados on hand (GS1000s, PS1000s, RS1s), I tended to prefer my HA5000 with them. Otherwise, I pretty much prefer the Leben.


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## Skylab

Quote: 





metalgear said:


> i have the 300x. compared to my custom MPX3 slam, it has tighter end and more sparkle on the top end and little more shrill on both my HD650 and D5000.
> 
> the mpx3 is certainly warmer and more relaxed. I have JJ EL84's and British Mullard 12Ax7 in the 300x.


 

 I think the shrillness would be gone if you replaced those JJ's with some nice NOS USA or UK 6BQ5/EL84's


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## shabta

So you guys have made me very interested in this amp. When I checked price japan it says Leben discontinued this amp as of april 2010 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Any idea where to get one without spending an arm and a leg?


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## metalgear

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think the shrillness would be gone if you replaced those JJ's with some nice NOS USA or UK 6BQ5/EL84's


 

 Yeah its obvious I guess... so much for all those good reviews I read about the JJ's... NOS rules...
   
  Don't you guys ever feel guilty burning away all those wonderful tubes just to power headphones (instead of speakers)?


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## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





shabta said:


> So you guys have made me very interested in this amp. When I checked price japan it says Leben discontinued this amp as of april 2010
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Not sure if you scrolled down a little further but, this is the complete notice on the Price Japan site
   
   
  Quote: 





> *The limited version of CS300XS was discontinued, around  April 2010.*
> The limited version is No more available.
> 
> This is a normal version of CS300XS, which becomes available around June 15, 2010.
> Please note also that it need 2-3 weeks to be shipped after your order/ full payment.


 
   
   
  My impression has been that they produce the amps in runs. I thought the CS300X was discontinued for quite a while but I just bought mine new a few months ago. I think Price Japan is getting their facts a little mixed up though. I am not sure what the CS300XS limited is. The CS300X-Ltd. was the X version sold with NOS Mullard EL84s and when their stock of Mullards ran out, they started to sell the CS300XS version which came with the Sovtek EL84s. As far as I know, there is no CS300XS Limited. One thing you could also do is check with Price Japan to see if they can get you a CS300 which may be around at this time and would be cheaper. They are superb as well and you can always roll in better tubes.


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## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





metalgear said:


> Don't you guys ever feel guilty burning away all those wonderful tubes just to power headphones (instead of speakers)?


 

 My Leben is set up in my home office next to my desk. I use it about 50/50 with my headphones and a set of bookshelf speakers. I think I love what it does with my speakers even more than what is does with my headphones. It is just an all-around superb centerpiece for the main listening rig.
   
  Incidentally, my speakers are also from Denon but I am pretty sure they are not sold outside of Japan. They are not terribly expensive, but they sound very good to me and really match nicely with the Leben. I do think there is a Denon 'house sound' and have wondered, but never confirmed, if these are also produced by Fostex, like the D7000s which to my ears sound their best with my Leben. They are part of a surround speaker system but sold separately and usually hooked up with Denons stereo systems in their audio store displays. I have that surround system in with the TV but have never hooked up the Leben with the tallboys. Need to do that someday or better yet, pick up a CS600 for those!
   
   
Denon SC-A77XG


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## shabta

Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> Not sure if you scrolled down a little further but, this is the complete notice on the Price Japan site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I saw that message when I woke up this morning. It wasn't there yesterday for some reason. I didn't have to scroll today to see it.
 Anyway it is good to know I can still order it.
   
   
  About the idea of getting a CS300 and rolling in different tubes, do you think that a CS300 with NOS mullard will sound better than a CS300X with Sovtek?
   
  If so any idea what Mullards wil cost?
   
  thanks!


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## Skylab

Quote: 





metalgear said:


> Yeah its obvious I guess... so much for all those good reviews I read about the JJ's... NOS rules...
> 
> Don't you guys ever feel guilty burning away all those wonderful tubes just to power headphones (instead of speakers)?


 

 Are you serious?  Like headphones are a second citizen to speakers for music...LOL.  Tubes + cans rule, baby!

  
  Quote: 





shabta said:


> About the idea of getting a CS300 and rolling in different tubes, do you think that a CS300 with NOS mullard will sound better than a CS300X with Sovtek?
> 
> If so any idea what Mullards wil cost?
> 
> thanks!


 

 There is no doubt for me that NOS real Mullards will sound better.  But a nice quad of Mullard EL84's will run $400+.  So I use Sylvanias in mine - got a nice quad of NOS Sylvanias for $100.


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is no doubt for me that NOS real Mullards will sound better.  But a nice quad of Mullard EL84's will run $400+.  So I use Sylvanias in mine - got a nice quad of NOS Sylvanias for $100.


 
   
  Thanks for the reply. I am also trying to figure out if it is worth the extra bucks (or perhaps my quickly dropping euros) for the CS 300X rather than the CS 300. So are you trying to say that  a CS300 with NOS Mullards or even NOS Sylvanias will sound better than a CS300X(S) with stock sovteks?
   
  Any way it's interesting that a guy that has spent as much money and time as you on gear willl stop $300 short and punt on the mullards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. That says something really good about the sylvanias. Don't it?


----------



## FrankCooter

I've often wondered why small pp tube integrateds like the Leben aren't more popular here. One of my favorite amps of all time is the Dynaco SCA35. Easily cloned, or available used for around $350. Might call it a "poor man's" Leben.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





shabta said:


> Thanks for the reply. I am also trying to figure out if it is worth the extra bucks (or perhaps my quickly dropping euros) for the CS 300X rather than the CS 300. So are you trying to say that  a CS300 with NOS Mullards or even NOS Sylvanias will sound better than a CS300X(S) with stock sovteks?
> 
> Any way it's interesting that a guy that has spent as much money and time as you on gear willl stop $300 short and punt on the mullards
> 
> ...


 

 I literally have a whole closet full of tubes.  I have some Mullards - and I think the Sylvania black-plate 6BQ5's are very nearly as good, yes.  I have no way to answer your first question, though.


----------



## arnesto

I read in the 6moons review that the MSRP for the cs 300 was $2495.
   
  I called the US distributor this week to order one and the distributor told me it went up to $2995 because the dollar exchange rate was poor and it has been at that price for a couple of years.
   
  The $500 bump up was enough to scare me off.
   
  I really wanted to get one, and I don't want to order one from Japan directly with the 100v voltage.
   
  There are alot of super amps to choose from within that $3000 range, too bad it's not going to be a Leben.


----------



## ztsen

I have a chance to audition Leben CS300SX (Stock tubes), it really drive T1 very well. Sparkling high, transparent, detail, punchy bass and exceptionally good imaging, good workmanship of the product and definitely look classic. My only issue is the pathetic 2 tiny click allowance to adjust T1 volume. If further more will blow your ears and your headphone drivers. I quite scare if someone try to be funny and joke with me by turning up the volume. The minor will be somehow feel slower compare with phoenix for fast track. The price also quoted quite high locally compare with Japan.


----------



## Skylab

All of the amps I have could blow your ears out if turned up too high. The most I ever use the volume on any is about 1/3 rotation! But the Leben's stepped attenuator can make exact volume adjustments difficult especially if you have a very high-level source.

 I don't find the Leben at all slow, though. I actually thought it made the Phoenix sound thick by comparison. But we all do hear differently!


----------



## Henmyr

I now have a CS300 on the way.
   
  Is there something in particular I should know about this amp?
  Should I turn it on with or without headphones plugged in?
  Is it okey to change headphones without turning it off?
  Should one wait a very long time after it's turned off before I roll tubes?
  How should the impedance be set for headpones? For speakers? Can I change the impedance while the amp is on?
  Could I somehow damage it by using wrong load/wrong speakers/headpones?
  Can I change input while the amp is on?
  Anything else?


----------



## Skylab

I change headphones with mine on - no problems.  I almost always turn it on with the headphones plugged in - also no problem.  There is no setting for the impedance of headphones - just speakers (which is on the back).  Rolling tubes requires taking the top off, and the amp does get hot, so you should wait 30 minutes or so.  You cannot damage the amp by using headphones of any impedance.  It does well with high and low impedance headphones.    I have swapped input devices while the amp was on (but with the input selector on a different input, and the volume all the way down).
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## shabta

You guys are making me salivate, everytimne you talk about this amp. Skylab is this your favorite amp these days?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





shabta said:


> You guys are making me salivate, everytimne you talk about this amp. Skylab is this your favorite amp these days?


 

 Yes, and by a pretty wide margin.


----------



## shabta

Great, all I have to do is see if I can rob a bank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, its the usual head-fi tax....


----------



## ztsen

Quote:


skylab said:


> All of the amps I have could blow your ears out if turned up too high. The most I ever use the volume on any is about 1/3 rotation! But the Leben's stepped attenuator can make exact volume adjustments difficult especially if you have a very high-level source.
> 
> I don't find the Leben at all slow, though. I actually thought it made the Phoenix sound thick by comparison. But we all do hear differently!


 

 I only have a short time for the audition. Perhaps you have more accurate impression but there will be my first initial impression. Yet no doubt it is an impressive amp. Definitely added into my wishlist.
   
  Wonder how much different from using Mullard tube?


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





henmyr said:


> I now have a CS300 on the way.


 
  Very nice! Congratulations. A very good amp indeed and a wise decision.
   
  Did you order through Price Japan? They are still saying that the limited version of the CS300XS is discontinued and the normal version will be available around June 15. Is the 'normal version' they refer to actually the CS300?
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Henmyr*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  x2 on what Skylab wrote!
   
  Please update with first impressions and all that. Enjoy!


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> Very nice! Congratulations. A very good amp indeed and a wise decision.
> 
> Did you order through Price Japan? They are still saying that the limited version of the CS300XS is discontinued and the normal version will be available around June 15. Is the 'normal version' they refer to actually the CS300?
> 
> ...


 


 I have one on order also, what Kaneda says is that the moniker on the plate will still have the "XS" , although it is a "normal" or standard version. Don't matter to me none, I just want one! I have a near-field arrangement with the baby Harbeth's that this will fit snugly into.


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> I have one on order also, what Kaneda says is that the moniker on the plate will still have the "XS" , although it is a "normal" or standard version. Don't matter to me none, I just want one! I have a near-field arrangement with the baby Harbeth's that this will fit snugly into.


 

 I am very much looking forward to your impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That must be the CS300 then. I wonder if the CS300XS has actually been discontinued or it will just be an indefinite amount of time before the next run. I would feel completely satisfied with the CS300 as well. It is a great amp.


----------



## jjinh

Beautiful looking amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> I am very much looking forward to your impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  According to the pricejapan website:
    
  Quote:


> *The limited version of CS300XS was discontinued, around  April 2010.*
> The limited version is No more available.
> 
> This is a normal version of CS300XS, which becomes available around June 15, 2010.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> Very nice! Congratulations. A very good amp indeed and a wise decision.
> 
> Did you order through Price Japan? They are still saying that the limited version of the CS300XS is discontinued and the normal version will be available around June 15. Is the 'normal version' they refer to actually the CS300?
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks

 I bought it used locally, so it's a CS300 for 230V.


----------



## Born2bwire

I lucked out.  I got my Mullard EL84's from a box of miscellaneous tubes at the back of a hifi store where we were holding a Head-fi meet.  $20 a tube for the Mullards and a pair of those with a Raytheon blackplate 5751 really sang.  I shudder to think how much those tubes would cost now, one of the reason why I decided to go solid state for my last few amps.


----------



## ztsen

Anyone from Tokyo, any good recommendation for Hi-Fi shop or 2nd hand shop I can hunt for this amp? 
  I'll be going there for vacation this month.


----------



## Afrikane

Very excited to be joining the CS-300XS club soon; should have it by Thursday latest. Now to seek out some tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Nice!  Let us know how you like it!


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Don't forget the drivers! The magic didn't happened in my Stingray until I fell on the JJ EL84's and Telefunken 12AT7's driver combination. I think the GE5751 is the mil spec part for the 12AX7? If so, you might want to research compatibility and check out some options there too!    
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Are you serious?  Like headphones are a second citizen to speakers for music...LOL.  Tubes + cans rule, baby!
> 
> 
> 
> There is no doubt for me that NOS real Mullards will sound better.  But a nice quad of Mullard EL84's will run $400+.  So I use Sylvanias in mine - got a nice quad of NOS Sylvanias for $100.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah - I'm using Sylvania black-plate 5751's. They're my favorite of the non-stratospheric priced NOS 12AX7 types.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Yah, I paid out the wazoo for my Tele's. And to think these things were less than a buck at one time. The Leben strikes me as a great amp.


----------



## MikeLa

Another Leben CS-300XS in the house - US import.  Currently listening with Mark Modded D7000's (LA7000), HD650's and waiting on a pair T1's.


----------



## Gu Sensei

Nice! Do share your observations and impressions. No one will object to pictures either....
   




   
   
  Quote: 





afrikane said:


> Very excited to be joining the CS-300XS club soon; should have it by Thursday latest. Now to seek out some tubes.


 
   
  Quote: 





mikela said:


> Another Leben CS-300XS in the house - US import.  Currently listening with Mark Modded D7000's (LA7000), HD650's and waiting on a pair T1's.


----------



## metalgear

I'm getting in some reissue goldlions and mullards to pit against the JJ's I received with my 300xs. How many hours should I burn in the tubes? After 6 hours or so, the (cheaper) mullards already sound better than the used JJ's - much more extended and controlled bass on both the Senn 650 and the K1000.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





afrikane said:


> Very excited to be joining the CS-300XS club soon; should have it by Thursday latest. Now to seek out some tubes.


 

 You are welcome, and also impression compared to other great amps you have owned.


----------



## MikeLa

Here is an iPhone picture of the current setup.


----------



## MrQ

I just spoke to a Leben dealer who claimed that if one bought a the CS-300XS from Japan then used a step-down transformer it would quote... "sound like a MP3 player". Can any one verify this?


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I just spoke to a Leben dealer who claimed that if one bought a the CS-300XS from Japan then used a step-down transformer it would quote... "sound like a MP3 player". Can any one verify this?


 

 That sounds like something a guy says to scare you off buying the cheaper version. This is the problem when an amp costs 70% more just because its imported...


----------



## metalgear

Quote: 





shabta said:


> That sounds like something a guy says to scare you off buying the cheaper version. This is the problem when an amp costs 70% more just because its imported...


 

 partly true if the said transformer is a cheap wall wart type. I've not tried it but I understand that "audiophile" standard transformers exist and can even clean up the power so that it sounds better than being directly plugged in to the grid.


----------



## ztsen

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I just spoke to a Leben dealer who claimed that if one bought a the CS-300XS from Japan then used a step-down transformer it would quote... "sound like a MP3 player". Can any one verify this?


 

 I think Rob can confirm this, it won't impact the sound.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





ztsen said:


> I think Rob can confirm this, it won't impact the sound.


 

 No, it doesn't impact the sound quality using a step down transformer...What he wants you to do is spend $1000.00 or more dollars (over the price from "Price Japan") with him...He either doesn't have a clue...or is deliberately trying to mislead you. The better if not best headphone amp I have heard at any price...
   
  I'm all for supporting local brick n' mortar dealers, but they feel they can charge full tilt from the positive press they (Leben) are receiving World-wide!


----------



## Skylab

Alan nailed it. The dealer who said that is a scammer.


----------



## MrQ

Thank you all for your replies. I am not an audio guru by any stretch of the imagination. But I've got a good ear and I'll research like hell to get what I want and pay for it if necessary. But this guy, who claimed to be the head of the main dealer for Leben in the UK (who I tracked down from Japan to the UK distributor to his company) made me feel like a total idiot when I suggested that his quote for the CS-300X(S) at £2730 could be beaten by importing from Japan for £1600. 
   
  His pitch was that theirs came with the 230v 'transformers'? fitted and using a step-down transformer would _"obviously" _(said in that 'how could you be so stupid' tone) degrade the sound to that of an MP3 player. I bit my lip at his general patronising tone as I thought I might have to buy one off him at some point. 
   
  You know, it's hard being a rookie in any field. But one can really get gouged in this racket.
   
  So help me out, where can I find an 'audiophile' step-down transformer (230v-100v) so I can tell this guy where to stick it. (I wouldn't really, but I'd be thinking it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) I wish ps audio made something.
   
  Edit: Right, I've emailed Leben in Japan re transformers.


----------



## SleepyOne

Don't know is it true or not, but I heard from a friend donkey years ago that step down transformer does degrade but it is doubtful it will sound like MP3 player though. He said something about step down may not provide fast enough or something as amp's transformer is bigger - don't ask I am not technical... I guess a big step down might do the job??
   
  Did the dealer say 240v transformer? But UK is 230v, will that result in the transformer making buzzing sound?


----------



## MrQ

Sorry you're right it's 230v. I shall edit accordingly.


----------



## Skylab

Japan's voltage is 100 V.  The USA is +/- 115V.  I use a step-down (a decent one, from voltageconverters.com) to drop the voltage a whopping 15V.  This absolutely doesn't impact the sound one iota, and for the guy to try to claim otherwise is absurd.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Japan's voltage is 100 V.  The USA is +/- 115V.  I use a step-down (a decent one, from voltageconverters.com) to drop the voltage a whopping 15V.  This absolutely doesn't impact the sound one iota, and for the guy to try to claim otherwise is absurd.


 

 Thanks I'll check them out.


----------



## achristilaw

A member of Price Japan claimed that the 100V is close enough to 115V as not to need a step down. I find that suspect as it's sure to de-stabilize (and perhaps shorten) the transformer life. You have to watch and weigh any information you receive as even Price Japan was eager to make my sale. I think idle consumes 82 Watts for the Leben and I chose a 300 Watt step down (under Japanese transformers) 115V to 100V transformer for $29.95 plus shipping from www.voltageconverters.com
   
  A nice quiet unit that is good insurance and offers assurance!


----------



## Skylab

I agree that using it straight into the wall is asking for trouble from the transformers, long term.  And those voltageconverters.com units are pretty nice - and the price is right!
   
  The very idea that a step-down transformer, assuming it is spec'd properly for the job, could impede the sound quality, makes me laugh.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

And I've always found my stuff performed (and measured) a bit better at 120v (or more), especially on some of those "bigger" rig amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  EDIT: For units designed for USA standards, that is... 
  
  Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> A member of Price Japan claimed that the 100V is close enough to 115V as not to need a step down. I find that suspect as it's sure to de-stabilize (and perhaps shorten) the transformer life. You have to watch and weigh any information you receive as even Price Japan was eager to make my sale. I think idle consumes 82 Watts for the Leben and I chose a 300 Watt step down (under Japanese transformers) 115V to 100V transformer for $29.95 plus shipping from www.voltageconverters.com
> 
> A nice quiet unit that is good insurance and offers assurance!


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> And I've always found my stuff performed (and measured) a bit better at 120v (or more), especially on some of those "bigger" rig amps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What I have measured coming out of my wall varies from 115 to 118V's is typical. So. Cal varies when AC is cranked up!!!
  A stable 120V standard...don't I wish!


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Just plugged my Fluke 77 in the wall and got 120.7v. My buddy's dedicated media room with it's own dedicated Equi=Tech 220v balanced power supply typically measures 124v - 125v! That's one serious xformer!


----------



## Skylab

My AC tends to run more like 125V.  So more reason to use the step-down.
   
  The May Stereophile had some VERY nice things to say about the Leben CS600, the big brother of our Lebens


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

I've never had problems with AC in that range. On the other hand, I've heard the effects of too low a voltage making xformer's hum! It's not a happy hum either!


----------



## Afrikane

I took delivery of mine on Friday and I am happy to report it looks much better in the "flesh" than it does in pics. But for one little niggle the build quality is exceptional; the niggle being a missing locking nut on the headphone jack. Listening time has been limited but thus far: I am surprised at the Sov EL84s, I did not expect them to sound this good. I have a K1000 on the taps and a HD800 in the jack, at the moment I am preferring the K1000 but this could just be re-awakened love. The HD800 sound exceptionally good out of my NOS B759/N709 tubed HD250 amp, the tonal balance is slightly different with CS300XS but it is too early to make pronouncements on this. On first impressions I think I am going to enjoy a long rewarding relationship with this amp.
   
  Obligatory pic.


----------



## Skylab

VERY nice!!!!  Russian EL-84's are not the worst thing in the world, I agree.  I'm less enthusiastic about Russian 12AX7 equivalents, so you might choose to roll those first.  But regardless, enjoy it - such a wonderful amp!


----------



## Afrikane

Mine came tubed with GE 5751s, not 12AX7s. I agree though, Sov 12ax7** leave a lot to be desired.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





afrikane said:


> Mine came tubed with GE 5751s, not 12AX7s. I agree though, Sov 12ax7** leave a lot to be desired.


 


 It's not missing a surface lock-nut...just a flush mount new design like mine....


----------



## Gu Sensei

Yep, mine is like that too.
  
  Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> It's not missing a surface lock-nut...just a flush mount new design like mine....


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The May Stereophile had some VERY nice things to say about the Leben CS600, the big brother of our Lebens


 


   
  My wallet dreads the day I wander into an audio store with one of these on display. I wonder what the differences are sonically with the CS300X.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> My wallet dreads the day I wander into an audio store with one of these on display. I wonder what the differences are sonically with the CS300X.


 

 Move over Megan Fox..'cause that is sexy!


----------



## MikeLa

Jeff Day, in his review of the Leben RS-30EQ Phono Preamplifier uses both of his Leben's, the CS300XS and CS600.  The owner of the shop where I purchased the CS300XS also has both units in his home.  So I guess when we all purchase our CS600's we will still want to keep the CS300's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Here is the link for his review in positive-feedback, he gives his impressions of the two units and the phono preamp 
   
  http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/leben.htm


----------



## TigzStudio

So has anyone ever found/heard a close equivalent to this amp (price not being a factor). ?  Just curious.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





mikela said:


> Jeff Day, in his review of the Leben RS-30EQ Phono Preamplifier uses both of his Leben's, the CS300XS and CS600.  The owner of the shop where I purchased the CS300XS also has both units in his home.  So I guess when we all purchase our CS600's we will still want to keep the CS300's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Ha-Ha! That's the good/bad news? I can live with that..they are as special as special get's! They are both a Leben of Love!
   
  I already willed the Leben to myself for the after-life! It will be with me, Leben or dead
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## arnesto

The price of the Leben CS300XS from the US importer is $3500.
   
  I saw it on PriceJapan for $2400(being this version would need to use a convertor). Just wondering, if I bought it in Japan, how much would I pay for a new CS300XS.
   
  What kind of mark up would I be paying to have it sent to me from Japan.
   
  A question to MikeLA, which US store has these on display?


----------



## MikeLa

I went to a local dealer in Phoenix AZ, Arizona Hi-Fi (www.tubeaudio.com).  He had the CS600 out for audition.  I brought my headphones, sat down and listened, then signed the credit card slip for the CS300XS.


----------



## MikeLa

achristilaw,
   
  When you are listening to your Leben which headphones are you mostly using? 
   
  Since the Leben walked in, I've blown the dust off the HD650's.


----------



## Skylab

The Leben CS300X is astounding with the Audez'e LCD-2 - I know that is at least one of Alan's combinations.


----------



## MikeLa

I'm on the pre-order list.  Audeze's sent an email yesterday, looks like they may ship late July.


----------



## ztsen

Within Japan only have CS300 and CS600 version. Lowest so far I checked is 143800Yen.
  Quote: 





arnesto said:


> The price of the Leben CS300XS from the US importer is $3500.
> 
> I saw it on PriceJapan for $2400(being this version would need to use a convertor). Just wondering, if I bought it in Japan, how much would I pay for a new CS300XS.
> 
> ...


----------



## arnesto

143800 Yen works out to about $1588 US dollars. The US importer wanted $3000 for the CS300. That's a 95% markup. Ouch!
   
  I would like to get one of these but I just don't like the idea of paying a middle man that much to get one.


----------



## TigzStudio

I think I am going to pick up a cs300xs just to see what all the fuss is about, and compare it to my balanced ref5/roc setup.  Going to use it with the LCD-2s when I get em.  May the best amp win.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Leben CS300X is astounding with the Audez'e LCD-2 - I know that is at least one of Alan's combinations.


 


 Yup-Yup!!


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





mikela said:


> achristilaw,
> 
> When you are listening to your Leben which headphones are you mostly using?
> 
> Since the Leben walked in, I've blown the dust off the HD650's.


 

  I love the control, and extension of that control running balanced, from using the Gilmore's...but the inner-dimensional separation and utter natural layering of the Leben...my Lord!
   
   I have had more "out-of-head" and the resulting "out-of-body" experiences using the Leben..it has a wonderful intermediary synergy between the PS Audio PWT/PWD and the LCD-2.
   
    I have a pair of 600's and they have had the dust blown off em' by the Leben!
   
   It's stance, look and feel and most important...sound quality are a breed apart. I love the lil' darling!
   
   I didn't buy it for headphones...I wanted to use them with my baby Harbeth's in a near-field area (for reading) and I haven't got that far yet....still setting next to the phones. SEE....I need the 600 for the Harbeth's!


----------



## Skylab

Right!  Get the CS600 for the Harbeths!  Now you're talking, Alan


----------



## MikeLa

achristilaw,
   
   
  Which Harbeth's ?  What can 15w drive?
   
  We don't have a speaker setup in the house (well not a real one) and the boss is on the verge of giving me the ok to replace one of the old TV's with a 2.0 setup - CS600 came to mind


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





mikela said:


> achristilaw,
> 
> 
> Which Harbeth's ?  What can 15w drive?
> ...


 

 I have a couple different Harbeths, C7's and the HL-P3ES-2's. The 300 will be used on the HLP3's in the near-field...don't need watts in bunches for near-field listening. Background levels for reading mostly, I like reading with Headphones but it isn't comfortable long term wearing glasses. I have the LFD integrated doing that duty now and it does quite well, but having the Leben in hand, I understand what all the fuss from the Audio Press has been about.
   
  It still hasn't made it to the reading area...having way too much fun using as a Headphone amp! It's extraordinary in that regard! I constantly swap amps and jostle for one, two, three days at a time...but even when the Leben isn't in circuit...I need it close so my eye's can caress it (must be love)!    
   
  I have several Home Brew Horn's and Ed's Horn Shoppe Horn's, Klipsch LaScala etc...a whole bunch that an excellent 15 Watts can Muscle actually. They have a whole class of very sensitive Speakers out there that 15 Watts would feast on! Yeah, I have been a gear-head a long time.


----------



## MikeLa

I'm still a rookie... looks like I have some research to do. 
   
  gotta love this addiction....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> Move over Megan Fox..'cause that is sexy!


 

 Sexy is as sexy does and from what I've seen of the Leben, it is one SEXY integrated amp. I think my wallet just kicked me. I can't wait to hear the CS300SX. There is a showroom with a Leben down the street from where I live. Well, actually, it's 10 blocks down the hill.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sexy is as sexy does and from what I've seen of the Leben, it is one SEXY integrated amp. I think my wallet just kicked me. I can't wait to hear the CS300SX. There is a showroom with a Leben down the street from where I live. Well, actually, it's 10 blocks down the hill.


 
  Yeah! Be there with roller-skates on! "While I was passing by...." Take your phones and some of your own Music!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> Yeah! Be there with roller-skates on! "While I was passing by...." Take your phones and some of your own Music!!


 
  Thanks! Excellent idea. XC Lent. I shall scoot down that hill with phones in hand, head, and arms with ears at the ready and a blast of Music to spin!


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! Excellent idea. XC Lent. I shall scoot down that hill with phones in hand, head, and arms with ears at the ready and a blast of Music to spin!


 

  
  Just so you know...if the Leben isn't running, allow one hour fifteen to one hour twenty minutes warm-up. You can hammer after ten minutes, most tube amps need at least an hour to sync...the Leben needs a wee bit more!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> Just so you know...if the Leben isn't running, allow one hour fifteen to one hour twenty minutes warm-up. You can hammer after ten minutes, most tube amps need at least an hour to sync...the Leben needs a wee bit more!


 

 Thanks for the info. I didn't realize that tube amps needed an hour to sync and I have owned a whole slew of tube amps for almost a year. Ya learn sump-tin every day. So maybe while the Leben is warming up I can have a burrito and a Margarita--or maybe just a Margarita. That should really put my hearing perception in tip-top share (if not tipsy shape)


----------



## Skylab

Alan is just talking about for absolute best performance.  I often use it after 5 minutes, and it still sounds great.  But longer warm-up is always better.


----------



## Clayton SF

Great! Then 5 minutes it is (or thereabouts). Then I only have enough time for a shot of tequila before listening.


----------



## arnesto

Does anyone know how I can buy one new.
   
  I don't want to buy one from a US importer and pay the high middle man fee.
   
  I think PriceJapan is kind of steep considering they want $2400 for something that sells for $1800 in Japan.
   
  Another option is to go to Japan and buy it in person, but that will have to wait until I am ready to go on vacation over there.
   
  Lastly, I was thinking if anyone knew a company in Japan that can ship it over here to the States.


----------



## Gu Sensei

Hey arnesto
   
  I do not think that $2400 is too excessive considering the exchange rate, shipping and fees. From what I can tell, anyplace selling CS300Xs will order from Leben for around MRSP 180,000 yen which would be around $2000 US and then add another $225 or so for shipping plus some fees to Price Japan or whomever else you would order from. Maybe there are some better deals out there but I did not really see anything. Were you just converting 180,000 yen to 1800 US?
   
  You might be able to save a few hundred dollars if you go for the CS300 though but I did not see that one listed on Price Japan.


----------



## MikeLa

TigzStudio, I think Luxman may have something equivalent, I don't know much about tubes, but I think they might match up like this;
   
  Luxman SQ-38u   = Leben CS600
  Luxman SQ-N100 = Leben CS300 or CS300XS ?
   
  Similar pricing.
   
  I haven't heard the Luxman tube amps.
   
  I believe similar to the Leben's, the speaker output is redirected to the headphone output.  From what I can tell, instead of a headphone / speaker switch, the headphone is always on and you switch the speakers off.
   
  There is some discussion on Audiogon comparing the two brands and a 6moons review.  I know TTVJ is a Luxman dealer.


----------



## Ypoknons

I found a post by Todd that said the SQ-N100's headphone amp was more P200 than P1u territory. Open to interpretation, of course.


----------



## RedBull

Skylab, so, can I say you like your Leben more than your Extreme? 
  Anyone have some comparison?
   
  I auditioned Leben at my local store with my HD650, I heard a very slight 'bzzzz', but once the music's playing, it so soft it doesn't affect the music. 
  It's really nice, I admit, the 3D holographic sound, is the best I heard out from my HD650, amazin!.  The only complain is the volume control, it's a bit too powerful, I basically can only listen at 8.00 - 8.30 only.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Skylab, so, can I say you like your Leben more than your Extreme?
> Anyone have some comparison?
> 
> I auditioned Leben at my local store with my HD650, I heard a very slight 'bzzzz', but once the music's playing, it so soft it doesn't affect the music.
> It's really nice, I admit, the 3D holographic sound, is the best I heard out from my HD650, amazin!.  The only complain is the volume control, it's a bit too powerful, I basically can only listen at 8.00 - 8.30 only.


 

 Yes, MUCH better than the Extreme.
   
  I put in the lower-gain 5751 driver tubes, and now I use the volume control about 9:00 - still a bit low, but it's not an issue for actual usage.


----------



## achristilaw

The Leben is the go to amp of choice for the Audez'e. I can't wax enough superlatives to do justice of the sound-properties that this amp possesses when used in tandem. For Ortho's I'm on a Ultra-Linear Pentode kick... I have commissioned Steve of Decware fame to build the TORII MKIII for headphone use. He's accepted and it will be a few weeks yet for the product to arrive at the door. He has a few tricks up the sleeve and I'm all twitterpated and looking forward to the result!


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Alan is just talking about for absolute best performance.  I often use it after 5 minutes, and it still sounds great.  But longer warm-up is always better.


 


 Yeah, I'm that kinda guy...sorry....


----------



## Henmyr

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Skylab, so, can I say you like your Leben more than your Extreme?
> Anyone have some comparison?
> 
> I auditioned Leben at my local store with my HD650, I heard a very slight 'bzzzz', but once the music's playing, it so soft it doesn't affect the music.
> It's really nice, I admit, the 3D holographic sound, is the best I heard out from my HD650, amazin!.  The only complain is the volume control, it's a bit too powerful, I basically can only listen at 8.00 - 8.30 only.


 

 I do not hear any buzz with any of my phones.My W5000 are very sensitive and hisses a lot with the CTH but is completely silent with the CS300.
   
  As for volume, sure, it's not much on the dial, but I can adjust the volume perfectly all the way down to zero without channel imbalance even with the very sensitive W5000, so I have no problem with it.


----------



## Skylab

I have a very slight buzz on my most sensitive headphones.  Can't hear it at all with my LCD-2, Ed 8, HE-5LE, D7000, or T1.  Very slight with W1000X.  More noticeable with the DX1000, but the DX1000 has revealed very small noises of lots of amps that I couldn't hear any noise with any other headphones.
   
  And to be clear - all of the above is with NO music playing - can't hear it at ALL with music playing, with any headphones.
   
  I bet I could get rid of it with tube rolling, though.  But I like the sound of the tubes I have in there, and it doesn't buzz at all with the LCD-2 or Ed 8, which are mostly what I use with it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


achristilaw said:


> Just so you know...if the Leben isn't running, allow one hour fifteen to one hour twenty minutes warm-up. You can hammer after ten minutes, most tube amps need at least an hour to sync...the Leben needs a wee bit more!


 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Alan is just talking about for absolute best performance.  I often use it after 5 minutes, and it still sounds great.  But longer warm-up is always better.


 
  Quote: 





			
				achristilaw said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'm that kinda guy...sorry....


 

 No apology necessary. You've both given me a time frame to warm up my tube amp. After all, some days I can only listen for an hour (before work) and other days it's for hours (after work/weekends). Thanks.


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, MUCH better than the Extreme.
> 
> I put in the lower-gain 5751 driver tubes, and now I use the volume control about 9:00 - still a bit low, but it's not an issue for actual usage.


 

 I guess this begs the question: Are the volume steps too great as you turn the knob, to be able to find the volume of choice, i generally like lowish volume? If I am listening with FOOBAR on my computer, can I just turn the volume know down on foobar and, in effect, lower the gain of the signal to the leben? Or will that distort the sound in some way?


----------



## Skylab

Lowering the volume in FOOBAR will reduce resolution, so you don't want to do that.  But I am always able to find a step that works for me on the Leben.


----------



## arnesto

Thanks for the info, I think my math was kind of off.
   
  I feel better now that I know most of the cost will go to shipping and the conversion rate.
   
  Are there any stores in Japan that sells these below MSRP?


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, MUCH better than the Extreme.
> 
> I put in the lower-gain 5751 driver tubes, and now I use the volume control about 9:00 - still a bit low, but it's not an issue for actual usage.


 
  Quote: 





			
				Skylab said:
			
		

> I have a very slight buzz on my most sensitive headphones.  Can't hear it at all with my LCD-2, Ed 8, HE-5LE, D7000, or T1.  Very slight with W1000X.  More noticeable with the DX1000, but the DX1000 has revealed very small noises of lots of amps that I couldn't hear any noise with any other headphones.
> 
> And to be clear - all of the above is with NO music playing - can't hear it at ALL with music playing, with any headphones.
> 
> I bet I could get rid of it with tube rolling, though.  But I like the sound of the tubes I have in there, and it doesn't buzz at all with the LCD-2 or Ed 8, which are mostly what I use with it.


 

 Wow, then I have to start telling my wallet to be ready for the Leben.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   Quote: 





			
				Henmyr said:
			
		

> I do not hear any buzz with any of my phones.My W5000 are very sensitive and hisses a lot with the CTH but is completely silent with the CS300.
> 
> As for volume, sure, it's not much on the dial, but I can adjust the volume perfectly all the way down to zero without channel imbalance even with the very sensitive W5000, so I have no problem with it.


 

   
  Thanks Henmyr.


----------



## arnesto

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the CS300xs. I got a quote from PriceJapan at $2,427.
   
  I am planning on using this with my Lavry DA10 and HD800.
   
  Can someone scare me away from doing this?
   
  If there is a better deal elsewhere, or if there is a better amp for the price, or something better to spend the money on.
   
  I know this is an awful huge sum of money to spend, but I figure I better enjoy my money before I die.
   
  I plan to die in about 35 years, just in case you are wondering.


----------



## MikeLa

Assuming you are using the correct actuarial tables and have 35 years left, that's $69.34 per year..... go for it


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the CS300xs. I got a quote from PriceJapan at $2,427.
> 
> I am planning on using this with my Lavry DA10 and HD800.


 
   
  Sweet combo you're planning. Is the CS300xs available in 120v from PriceJapan?
  
  Quote: 





			
				arnesto said:
			
		

> I plan to die in about 35 years, just in case you are wondering.


 
   
  You are funny. That should work out to about $69.34 a year. Of course your mileage may vary.


----------



## Skylab

Life is short.  DO IT!


----------



## arnesto

The 120v version can be had if you buy it from the US distributor, but you will end up paying $3,500 for it.
   
  I will buy a convertor for $17.99 from that voltage convertor website mentioned earlier on this tread.
   
  Thanks guys, I just needed that extra push.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> The 120v version can be had if you buy it from the US distributor, but you will end up paying $3,500 for it.
> 
> I will buy a convertor for $17.99 from that voltage convertor website mentioned earlier on this tread.
> 
> Thanks guys, I just needed that extra push.


 

 Buying a converter for your CS300xs from Japan saves you a considerable amount of bucks over the US version indeed. I'm sure it will bring you years (hopefully more than 35 years) of listening pleasure. GO!


----------



## TigzStudio

Do you know how many wallets you can kill with this statement? ! ? !
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Life is short.  DO IT!


----------



## achristilaw

After having owned and lived with the Leben CS300XS for a time, if I had to do it all over again and pay $3500.00 for the experience, I would. It's a genuine bargain from Price Japan, add the converter and it's still a steal.
   
  It's sound property, mated with a worthy source, is that of actual. Nothing in it's nature is contrived or forced using the Audez'e! Makes other amps (some very good one's) sound mechanical and antiseptic (transistor), or slow and lethargic (triodes and OTL's). Sounds like flesh on bone! The final arbitrator of the sound quality is left in the lap of the Source Material, where it belong's....


----------



## TigzStudio

double post, my bad.


----------



## TigzStudio

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> After having owned and lived with the Leben CS300XS for a time, if I had to do it all over again and pay $3500.00 for the experience, I would. It's a genuine bargain from Price Japan, add the converter and it's still a steal.
> 
> It's sound property, mated with a worthy source, is that of actual. Nothing in it's nature is contrived or forced using the Audez'e! Makes other amps (some very good one's) sound mechanical and antiseptic (transistor), or slow and lethargic (triodes and OTL's). Sounds like flesh on bone! The final arbitrator of the sound quality is left in the lap of the Source Material, where it belong's....


 
   

This is how im feeling about the Stacker II right now, will be interesting to compare it to the Leben.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


>


 



> This is how im feeling about the Stacker II right now, will be interesting to compare it to the Leben.


 
  If it's the lil' "agent orange" from Sachu....I used to own it!


----------



## TigzStudio

It most likely is yes, im glad you parted with it!   This Stacker II is such a headfi whore!  I hope you used protection....


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> It most likely is yes, im glad you parted with it!   This Stacker II is such a headfi whore!  I hope you used protection....


 


 She was unplugged and I was "strapped"
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Do you know how many wallets you can kill with this statement? ! ? !


 

 Yea, one of them is my wallet!


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> It most likely is yes, im glad you parted with it!   This Stacker II is such a headfi whore!  I hope you used protection....


 

 Interesting description, you make me want to see how Stacker II look like


----------



## KevinR70

Anybody had a listen to both the 300 and 600 headphone out?  I'm considering the 600 for a speaker/headphone combo system.  I plan on using it with the LCD-2 and denon 7000.  I've read that the 300 sounds great with both theses phones, just wondering if the 600 would have the same magic.


----------



## TigzStudio

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Interesting description, you make me want to see how Stacker II look like


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/397869/pictures-of-your-computer-rigs-post-them-here/1950
   
  My rig is at the bottom of this thread, its the orange colored amp with tubes 
   
direct link to a shot of the amp with her newly aquainted chinese friends....


----------



## RedBull

Thanks TigzStudio and yeah, I agree, Leben look a little bit better   Hey, I love Norah Jones too.


----------



## shabta

My leben is on its way! I found a demo for a good price that runs native 220V and has mullards. Only 150 hours on it and in perfect shape.
   
   
  Thanks to Skylab for answering my questions and especially Gu Sensei whose response to my PM tipped the scales into the yes column.
   
   
  Now I just have to wait for the UPS man to arrive, which in the mountains of the Langquedoc means wait and wait some more....


----------



## Skylab

COOL!  Let us know when it arrives!  I certainly still love mine.


----------



## Clayton SF

COOL! x2. I ordered mine 4 weeks ago. My North American distributor said that there is a large Leben back order at the moment with the importer. I can only wait patiently for its arrival as well before I can start to love mine! Oh, wait. I already love mine and I don't even have it yet.


----------



## David.M

The Leben is a real treat. One day, one day, i will hear its divine signature.
   
  So treat her right, you guys


----------



## shabta

Cool x3
  
  I have to admit I am pretty excited. I will definitely post impressions when the amp arrives.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Likely a large part of the price difference between the 100V Japanese model and the 120V US model is the fact that the power and output trannies have to be swapped. Those transformers are expensive and the reason why I say this is the simple fact that a cheap or flawed output transformer would compromise the overall SQ of the amp which by all accounts (here) leans toward superb, ergo terrific (and expensive) custom wound transformers are being used for both versions. You guys should have a look at the cost of vintage iron (recouped from all manner of gear)...it's an eye opener.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Double F

Since the amp was designed with 100v power in mind the sound may be compromised  by importers putting different voltage transformers inside.  Hence another plus for a decent quality step down transformer and the 100 volt model.


----------



## Afrikane

Can't speak for other territories but over here the Lebens come direct from the factory set to 220V


----------



## Skylab

If you buy from the US Distributor, you get 120v. The problem is that they charge $3,500, when you can get them from price japan for 2100 or so. 

 The transformers are all custom designed and wound- that's a big part of the whole Leben story.


----------



## SleepyOne

UK dealer is charging £2.7k for it. Even with pricejapan, I am guessing with import tax & duty probably ends up aruond £2.1 - 2.2k. Add a big transformer probably ends up around £2.3k...


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, a step-down transformer to drop from 220 to 100 would be bigger and costlier, I would expect.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





skylab said:


> If you buy from the US Distributor, you get 120v. The problem is that they charge $3,500, when you can get them from price japan for 2100 or so.
> 
> The transformers are all custom designed and wound- that's a big part of the whole Leben story.


 

 Can you get the 120V version from Japan for 2.1K though ? The custom iron says a lot about this amp and the company IMO...thanks Sky.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately, no, you cannot get the 120V version from price japan- wish you could!


----------



## MrQ

I looked into Transformers for the UK. They are around £46 for a standard and £163 with a built-in conditioning balanced power supply. I never did get a reply to the email I sent Leben in June.


----------



## SleepyOne

MrQ - I seen that too but I am thinking more in line of 1kw or above just in case! I used one (to step up) on an integrated amp many years ago and seems ok.
   
   
  Skylab - Do you think xhadow RCA plug will fit into leben's RCA hole?


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmm...not sure. The RCA jacks on the Leben might be too closely spaced.


----------



## SleepyOne

That's what I am afraid, it does look rather closely spaced for my interconnect lol....


----------



## shabta

My Leben came today. I am a bit shocked by how great it sounds with my HD800s. Yahoo!


----------



## Skylab

You may be shocked, but we who already own them are not surprised at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Congrats!


----------



## mrarroyo

Ok Rob, stopped it! I have no more money after just ordering a full decked out Isabella from Vinnie.


----------



## Skylab

Well the Isabella is a world class piece of kit, so I don't feel to bad for you, buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Congrats on that.


----------



## shabta

The nature of this hobby seems to be no matter how good a system we have there is always one more piece of gear that tempts...


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





shabta said:


> The nature of this hobby seems to be no matter how good a system we have there is always one more piece of gear that tempts...


 

 The Leben CS300X has been a very effective inoculation to upgraditis for me. I occasionally have thoughts of going balanced (again), but I then remember that I already sold off one balanced rig in favor of a CS300. I have sold off a small army of amps as they just got no use with the Leben present.  I am keeping a Luxman P-1 as a solid state representative, and I do like it a lot, butI could get rid of it and not really notice. On the other hand, there is the CS600...


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





shabta said:


> My leben is on its way! I found a demo for a good price that runs native 220V and has mullards. Only 150 hours on it and in perfect shape.
> 
> 
> Thanks to Skylab for answering my questions and especially Gu Sensei whose response to my PM tipped the scales into the yes column.


 

 Glad I could help, but it seems you did find an excellent deal. A no-brainer of a decision to me!


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





shabta said:


> My Leben came today. I am a bit shocked by how great it sounds with my HD800s. Yahoo!


 


 Enjoy Sir! An amp of this quality will remain in your system for years...


----------



## Clayton SF

I just got an email that said my Leben CS300XS is on its way too.
  What a delivery route!
  Japan > NY > S.Cal > N.Ca.


----------



## TigzStudio

How many listenable levels of volume steps are there?  I wont have mine for about 20-30 days, was curious about this.  The volume knob is stepped correct?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just got an email that said my Leben CS300XS is on its way too.
> What a delivery route!
> Japan > NY > S.Cal > N.Ca.


 

 Hey, as long as it's in NY, you might as well tell them to take a detour and let me audition it for a few days!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  You'd want to make sure the amp was properly functioning before you got it, right?


----------



## MikeLa

I'm listening to T1's between 8 1/2 to 9 1/2, most of the time 8 1/2.


----------



## Skylab

Same for me with the LCD-2 and the Ed 8


----------



## ztsen

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I looked into Transformers for the UK. They are around £46 for a standard and £163 with a built-in conditioning balanced power supply. I never did get a reply to the email I sent Leben in June.


 
   
  I sent before and took quite awhile for the reply. You may need to be patient.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Hey, as long as it's in NY, you might as well tell them to take a detour and let me audition it for a few days!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A road tour detour, yes? Perhaps when I get little too used to the Leben "Motion Sound" I may send it back your way so that I can give my hearing a chance to recuperate--a little R&R. Until then, enjoy your GEC+IPA.


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> Glad I could help, but it seems you did find an excellent deal. A no-brainer of a decision to me!


 

 Thanks again! Now that I have had it for a few days and tried it with all kinds of music, I would agree: It's a no brainer.


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> How many listenable levels of volume steps are there?  I wont have mine for about 20-30 days, was curious about this.  The volume knob is stepped correct?


 

 This was one of my biggest concerns before buying the amp.
   
  While the knob is stepped it can be easily left in between steps. It is quite easy to adjust the volume to any level you like.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





ztsen said:


> I sent before and took quite awhile for the reply. You may need to be patient.


 
  Thanks, will do.


----------



## arnesto

Well, I got my Leben CS300xs yesterday and I have been listening to it with the Lavry DA10 as the source and the HD800.
   
  I am currently using it with the stock tubes.
   
  I have been comparing the headphone out on the Leben to the headphone out on the Lavry.
   
  As far as I can tell, the detail on the Leben sounds just as good as the Lavry.
   
  After listening to the Leben for a while, the Lavry sounds a little thin and hard etched.
   
  The Leben on the other hand, sounds smooth and you can tell there is a tube sound but not a syrupy warm lush tube sound.
   
  I was listening to Beevthoven's 9th and the brass horns on the Leben sound really good, but when I listened to Sinnead OConner out of the Leben, the music sounded kind of dull. I prefered Sinnead on the Lavry because her voice sounds cleanner.
   
  Maybe this is because I have been using the Lavry as my primary headphone amp for the past 2 years and I have just grown accustomed to the Lavry sound. 
   
  I know somebody might say that I have not let the Leben burn it yet or that I haven't listened to it long enough, but this is just my initial impression and I will continue to listen to it and to get to know it better.
   
  As far as fit and finish on the Leben, it is superb. The unit I received, you can tell that all the components seem very rugged and built to last. It looks real nice, but the gold face plate does not match my silver or black audio components.
   
  Overall I am very happy with this piece so far and I definitely am looking forward to tube rolling and trying it with speakers.


----------



## Clayton SF

arnesto,
  That's great that you just received your Leben and thanks for your initial impressions. When did you place your order?


----------



## arnesto

It took exactly 16 days.


----------



## arnesto

I notice again when I was listening to the Leben last night, that the vocals on the midrange on some songs doesn't have the same high resolution as the Lavry.
   
  I am a little concerned about this. Can I get some tube recomendations that might fix this?
   
  I don't want to spend too much, but I would like to replace the stock tubes and see if this improves the sound.


----------



## Skylab

Resolution should absolutely not be an issue, but I never used the Sovtek tubes, and I generally have not been impressed by Sovteks.  Try to get some Sylvania's, RCA's, or GE's - they should be pretty good and not break the bank.


----------



## MikeLa

Here's a link to one of Jeff Day's reviews on the Leben, he discusses his favorite tubes for for the CS300XS and CS600
   
  http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/leben.htm


----------



## arnesto

Thanks. You guys are the best!


----------



## Henmyr

Have anyone here tried the Genalex, Gold Lion EL84/N709 reissue in the Leben? They sell for about $140 for a matched quad, so a bit expensive though.


----------



## Skylab

I refuse to pay that much for new production EL84/6BQ5's.  I bought a super-nice matched quad of NOS black-plate Sylvanias for $120 last month.  It's possible that the re-issue Gold Lions sound better - but I am very, very skeptical, and the Sylvanias sound awesome, so I have no desire to change.  One slight drawback to the Leben is you have to remove the top cover to roll tubes.  Not much of an issue - but it is more of a hassle than amps where the tubes are exposed.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I refuse to pay that much for new production EL84/6BQ5's.  I bought a super-nice matched quad of NOS black-plate Sylvanias for $120 last month.  It's possible that the re-issue Gold Lions sound better - but I am very, very skeptical, and the Sylvanias sound awesome, so I have no desire to change.  One slight drawback to the Leben is you have to remove the top cover to roll tubes.  Not much of an issue - but it is more of a hassle than amps where the tubes are exposed.


 

 Would you suggest permanently removing the cover if the exposed interior it is out the of reach of small children, inquisitive tweens, and roam-free pets of the climbing kind?


----------



## Anders

I use the Genalex Gold Lion EL84 and am very satisfied. The best new production I have tried and well balanced sound. When I looked around half a year ago there there was no abundance of NOS matched quads of EL84 for decent prices. There may be better NOS but it is reassuring that the Gold Lion reissue is easily available.


----------



## Skylab

clayton sf said:


> Would you suggest permanently removing the cover if the exposed interior it is out the of reach of small children, inquisitive tweens, and roam-free pets of the climbing kind?
> 
> 
> No, as I would be afraid too much dust would get in.









anders said:


> I use the Genalex Gold Lion EL84 and am very satisfied. The best new production I have tried and well balanced sound. When I looked around half a year ago there there was no abundance of NOS matched quads of EL84 for decent prices. There may be better NOS but it is reassuring that the Gold Lion reissue is easily available.







 Indeed, I agree with that - nice to know there are current production options that are decent.


----------



## arnesto

Do you guys know if the 12AX7 tube is the same as the 12AX7A tube?
   
  Also if you had to pick which set to replace first, would you replace the 12AX7A set or the EL84 set?


----------



## Skylab

I cannot say for sure about the Leben in specific, because when I have rolled, I have rolled them all at once.  But the general thinking is the input tube matters more than the power tube, although there is not universal consensus on that, as with all things audio.
   
  The 12AX7and 12AX7A can both be used in the Leben no problem.  The differences are very minor.


----------



## arnesto

Thanks Skylab, thanks to you and others who wrote about the Leben, I was able to buy a fantastic amp without being able to audition one first.
   
  I was going crazy trying to pick an amp, but I think eventually got steered to the right path.


----------



## shabta

I was actually happy with my Lehmann BCL, but this thread got me curious. And boy, am I glad I got curious...


----------



## Clayton SF

I just got an email from my audio guy. The Leben will arrive on Wednesday! Thanks to everyone for piquing my interest, especially to Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Looking forward to your impressions!


 

 Skylab--I am in possession of a quad of Siemens EL84 (1969) and a pair of GE 5751 (1988). The Leben CS300XS comes installed with Sovtek EL84. Should I start the burn-in process with the Sovtek or immediately replace them with the Siemens?


----------



## Skylab

It depends - are the Siemens and GE's definitely real NOS, or are the "used but test like NOS"? If the former, then I'd say put them in right away so they too can burn-in.  If the latter, might as well use the Sovteks for the burn-in.


----------



## mrarroyo

If you do the burn-in and initial listening with the stock tubes it allows you the opportunity to really appreciate the sound of the NOS tubes by having a frame of reference. Sometimes we jump when an smaller step could be more appropriate.


----------



## metalgear

Quote: 





anders said:


> I use the Genalex Gold Lion EL84 and am very satisfied. The best new production I have tried and well balanced sound. When I looked around half a year ago there there was no abundance of NOS matched quads of EL84 for decent prices. There may be better NOS but it is reassuring that the Gold Lion reissue is easily available.


 
  another vote for the gold lions - much better than EH.


----------



## arnesto

I just wanted to make some additional comments on a comparison of the Leben CS300xs to the Lavry DA10.
   
  I mentioned in a previous post that some songs sounded dull on the Leben CS300xs compared to the Lavry DA10, but I have been listening very closely to them both. All the detail is there on the Leben and I definitely think not that it doesn't sound dull anymore. I think I was mistaken because the Lavry DA10 sounds more shrill and I mistaken that to better resolution.
   
  But I think the sound on the Leben, because there are tubes involved, there is a slower decay on the notes and that gives that tubey soundstage on the Leben.
   
  Comparing the two, I think because they are both quality units. They both sound good, I can't say one is miles above or clearly better. But the sound on the Lavry is bright and clear, where the Leben has that tubey soundstage and clear. It's interesting that the spectrum of tonal difference is pretty far between, but I like them both.
   
  I also ordered 4 Genalex Gold Lion EC84 tubes. They are recent production tubes and I paid $109 for all four delivered. I must say, comparing them to the stock Sovtek, I can't tell a difference. If someone held a gun to my head and told be to distinguish on sound alone, I think there would be a 50/50% chance of me guessing which was which.
   
  My only advise on the new tubes, maybe someone with golden ears can tell a difference, but I would try a different combo.


----------



## Double F

Running Sylvania Black plate 6bq5's and a Pair of Sylvania NOS 5751 gold brand driver tubes.  I can safely say the 6 screws on the Leben top plate will not be coming off for a while.


----------



## Skylab

Nice tubes! Sounds great, I am certain


----------



## Clayton SF

It's here. I'm floored. Must regain consciousness. Where am I?
   
  When I turned the Leben on for the first time that was when I realized the meaning of *A Motion Sound*. It was as if the musicians were in the room with me. It was that impressive.
   
  Thanks to all for introducing me to the Leben. A special thank you to Skylab.
   
  And now for some pictures of my Leben.


----------



## Skylab

Great pics!  And congrats - you are now under the spell of the Leben


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks! I am in Leben Heaven!


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Thanks! I am in Leben Heaven!


 

 Amazing isn't it?


----------



## achristilaw

And it gets better with burn in!! I just ordered a smathering of tubes to experiment...as mine is fully burned in now!


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> And it gets better with burn in!! I just ordered a smathering of tubes to experiment...as mine is fully burned in now!


 
   
  Looking forward to hearing about the results of your expeirments!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> And it gets better with burn in!! I just ordered a smathering of tubes to experiment...as mine is fully burned in now!


 

 How long was your burn-in time?
   
  And how is this possible?: I connected another amp (Woo Audio 2) to the Leben Tape Out and guess what? The Woo Audio 2 is much improved (+++). I am using the Beyerdynamic DT990 600Ω. Unbelievable. I hope that's okay (Leben Tape Out > to the WA2 Line In). That was just an experiment. I'm sticking to listening to the Leben for now.


----------



## RedBull

Clayton SF,
   
  Mind to comment your impression (sound signature) of Leben vs WA2 alone?  I don't mean which is better, just the sound character only 
   
  And how's Leben playing, not-so-good recording?  will it become unbearably harsh? or?  I asked because, usually, high resolution system = 'very bad for less than super recording', in the end, I end up playing only Demo songs, shucks.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## TigzStudio

Can any of you guys that own the Leben post the specifications? I am assuming the amp came with a sheet?  Would be awesome!  Curious of the output power to the headphone jack.  how many V and mW?


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How long was your burn-in time?
> 
> And how is this possible?: I connected another amp (Woo Audio 2) to the Leben Tape Out and guess what? The Woo Audio 2 is much improved (+++). I am using the Beyerdynamic DT990 600Ω. Unbelievable. I hope that's okay (Leben Tape Out > to the WA2 Line In). That was just an experiment. I'm sticking to listening to the Leben for now.


 


 You'll notice improvements after the first twenty...then more after forty. I have a hundred+ and now that the amp is settled, I'll be able to enjoy some tube options.
   
  With the Leben in the signal path, I'm not surprised that you have a better impedance match with the Woo.
   
  I have a nice pair of the Amperex 12AX7's and both of the Telefunken types (smooth and ribbed). I have Mullard signals incoming along with a quad Raytheon EL84's. Found a nice used quad of Telefunken and Sylvanias earlier. I'm also trying some of the Russian re-issues of the Genalex 84's and 12A's in the "Gold Lion". So I'll be busy playing for a bit.
   
  I like the 5751's, but the more grunt of the 12AX7 is appreciated with the Audez'e.


----------



## arnesto

I was listening to the Leben last night with a good CD recording and it just sounded amazing. I can't think of any other equipment that I heard before that sounded this good.
   
  I hope I don't sound like a Leben fanboy, but I think I am now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> I was listening to the Leben last night with a good CD recording and it just sounded amazing. I can't think of any other equipment that I heard before that sounded this good.
> 
> I hope I don't sound like a Leben fanboy, but I think I am now.


 
  I have to agree with you. I must agree with you. I do agree with you. Absolutely the best amp in my amp corral. It's upped the sound quality of my system both in headphones and in speakers.


----------



## TigzStudio

How long do you wait for the Leben to warmup before using it?  30 min?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I start playing music through the Leben after the red light lights (about 20 seconds I guess) but I don't actually sit down to listen to it until after about 10 minutes. On weekends it stays on continuously for about 18 hours. On weekdays, about 6 hours. But that's because we're still on our "honeymoon."


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Can any of you guys that own the Leben post the specifications? I am assuming the amp came with a sheet?  Would be awesome!  Curious of the output power to the headphone jack.  how many V and mW?


 

 The manual that came with my Leben CS300XS is a photocopy of the CS300X LIMITED.
  CS300X SPECIFICATIONS
  TUBE EQUIPPED: EL84 X4, 5751 (G.E.)X2
  OUTPUT POWER: 15W X2
  FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 15Hz~100KHz (-2dB)
  DISTORTION: 0.7% (10W)
  INPUT SENSITIVITY: 600mV
  OUTPUT IMPEDANCE: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




/6/8 Ohms (selectable)
  POWER CONSUMPTION: 82W
  WEIGHT 10.5kgs.
  DIMENSIONS: 360(W) X 270(D) X 140(H) mm
  ATTACHMENT: Detachable AC Power Cable.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> I have to agree with you. I must agree with you. I do agree with you. Absolutely the best amp in my amp corral. It's upped the sound quality of my system both in headphones and in speakers.


 

 Also better than WA2?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Also better than WA2?


 

 Now here's the conundrum: I've stopped tube rolling on the Woos because I was spending too much time shifting between perceived tube-combo favorites that I wasn't listening to the music. So I've pretty much settled in on the current WooTubes--I've read that there are better combos out there.
   
  So with my current setup:
   
  Woo Audio 2--RCA 6AS7G black plates, Mullard EZ81 square getter, and Mullard CV2493/6922; and
   
  the Leben CS300XS--Siemens E84L, G.E. JAN 5751
   
  yes, the CS300XS has the edge. Now who's to say what my opinion would be of WA2's or 22's sound signature had I those coveted Holy-Grail tubes--G.E.C.s, Tung-Sols, etc. (of which some of you are in possession--you lucky people, you).
   
  I wonder what the original Gold Lion N709 EL84s would sound like in the Leben?  Eek! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must stop. My wallet just bit me.


----------



## TigzStudio

Well, I got my reply from Leben directly on the output power and some other information:
   
   
   
   
   

Thank you for your interest in Leben amplifier.

As a tube amplifier can accept a wide range of headphones,
we do not have so much detailed specifications, the headphone
output of CS-300XS is 0.85V(850mV).

For your information:

1) Our reference headphone for testing is JVC HA-S800 which is
  32ohms/115dB.

2) The best suitable headphone shall be 20ohms-40ohms, 95dB-110dB
  and over 1000mW input.

In anyway, almost of headphones on the current market are applicable
for CS-300XS.

Best regards.
Yoshi Hontani, Managing Director
   
   
   
   
  Interesting!!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Interesting indeed. And thank you for inquiring and actually getting useful information in return.


----------



## Seamaster

Siemens, hum... are they bright for this amp?
   
  I did one time heard EL84 based amp, sound wonderful, especially the tone.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> the Leben CS300XS--Siemens E84L, G.E. JAN 5751


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Siemens, hum... are they bright for this amp?
> 
> I did one time heard EL84 based amp, sound wonderful, especially the tone.


 

 Those Siemens are not bright at all. They have a very warm tone and they are also very detailed. Old recordings that sounded slightly harsh and brittle on other systems (like the Beatles white LP) sound fuller on the Leben. They temper the highs and make the sound more agreeable and less fatiguing. Very nice. Those Siemens quads weren't cheap and they'll only get more expensive so I should stock up on more of them while they are still available. I've also heard that some older Russian EL84s are good as well so I got a quad of those but haven't rolled them as yet.


----------



## Gu Sensei

> As a tube amplifier can accept a wide range of headphones,
> we do not have so much detailed specifications, the headphone
> output of CS-300XS is 0.85V(850mV).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome! Thanks for inquiring about that. Great to see.
   
  I also wholeheartedly agree with that last statement.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I have enjoyed the Leben even with 600 ohm headphones, but it DOES do an especially good job with my low-impedance cans like the LCD-2, D7000, and Edition 8 - something that other tube amps struggle with.  I am going to get to use the Leben with the HE-6 very soon - looking forward to trying that!


----------



## Seamaster

Anyone tried CS600?
   
  Quote from positive-feedback.com
   
   
  [size=x-small]But I digress, so back to my listening impressions: The Leben RS-30EQ phono preamplifier in combination with the CS-600 is pretty darn impressive on my Harbeth Monitor 40.1 loudspeakers, making it easy for me to relate to Stephen and John's favorable reaction at the _2009 Salon Son and Image Show_. Spinning Nick Drake's _Pink Moon _album again, with the CS-600 replacing the CS-300X, allowed the RS-30EQ to fully display the differences in the overall musical character of the CS-600 versus the CS-300X. By analogy, if the CS-300X is a bottle of Dom Pérignon champagne with all its bubble, sparkle, and excitement, then the CS-600 is a bottle of fine Pinot Noir, being darker, richer, and with a relaxed clarity. Fireworks versus candlelight I suppose, but both equally enchanting musically. The RS-30EQ with the CS-600 emphasized the woody resonance of the body of Nick's guitar more than the CS-300X, with the CS-300X emphasizing the textures of the strings more. The RS-30EQ demonstrates the CS-300X's prowess of revealing the musicianship of the performers and the timbral textures of the different instruments in the music of _Clair de Lunee_, while the CS-600 brings out more tone and mood at the symphonic level—both different, beautiful, expressive, and musically convincing in their own way.[/size]


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Those Siemens are not bright at all. They have a very warm tone and they are also very detailed. Old recordings that sounded slightly harsh and brittle on other systems (like the Beatles white LP) sound fuller on the Leben. They temper the highs and make the sound more agreeable and less fatiguing. Very nice. Those Siemens quads weren't cheap and they'll only get more expensive so I should stock up on more of them while they are still available. I've also heard that some older Russian EL84s are good as well so I got a quad of those but haven't rolled them as yet.


 


 Thanks, I shall take note of this.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks for the quote, Seamaster. I've been actually looking into getting the RS-30EQ. Eek! But that's another wallet!


----------



## Radio_head

Subscribed.


----------



## Seamaster

CS300XS is $3,495. and CS600 is $5,795.  
   
  That's quite mark-up from original price in Japan


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> CS300XS is $3,495. and CS600 is $5,795.
> 
> That's quite mark-up from original price in Japan


 

 But what's the price of a plane ticket to Japan to buy one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let alone, sight-seeing! After you've posted the review on the CS600 maybe I should trade the CS300XS in for the CS600! Eek!


----------



## Double F

Get one shipped from price japan.  I am totally satisfied with their service and the entire cost including the voltage converter was less than $2,500.  A good price considering you get a excellent integrated tube amp with the head-amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes. I found that out too late. By the way, does that converter come from PriceJapan as well?


----------



## Seamaster

voltage converter WILL degrade the SQ. The member iamoneagain and I tested this on his Japanese version $3000 AT headphone amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> voltage converter WILL degrade the SQ. The member iamoneagain and I tested this on his Japanese version $3000 AT headphone amp.


 

 If you get a good voltage converter, it will NOT degrade the sound quality, if we are taking about stepping down 120V to 100V (I cannot say about 240V>100V).  120V > 100V is a insignificant task.  Get one rated at 300W or better, and there is no sonic consequence whatsoever.  In fact the voltage converter I have does some power line filtering, so it may actually improve the sound.


----------



## Seamaster

I must disagree with you this time. Anything extra alone the line will affect SQ or sound signature to a point. That's why I found myself plug my WA22 into the wall bypass the power conditioner for best result. As for CDP, I don't notice any change.


----------



## arnesto

I initially had some hesitation about buying the 100v version made for Japan.
   
  Maybe it's sounds better if you buy the 120v version from the US distributor, and I do not know either way because I am not able to compare the two.
   
  I was on the same boat as you because it's a lot of money to spend and there are alot of unknowns being you are not able to hear or see it in person.
   
  But I am completely satisfied about with the 100v version.
   
  BTW, it was mentioned in a previous thread, but you can buy the voltage covertor at voltageconverter.com.


----------



## ztsen

In this case, headphone with 20-40ohm will be best suite for Leben. Maybe the designer never test it with 300-600ohm headphone? lol
  Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Well, I got my reply from Leben directly on the output power and some other information:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I must disagree with you this time. Anything extra alone the line will affect SQ or sound signature to a point. That's why I found myself plug my WA22 into the wall bypass the power conditioner for best result. As for CDP, I don't notice any change.


 

 OK, so we disagree - that is all good, people can get different viewpoints.  Maybe the reason I found no difference is that I am using a power conditioner as well as the voltage converter, which I think helps the sound, whereas you do not use them as you believe power conditioners are detrimental to the sound of amps.
   
  It's actually a little scary to me that the Leben could potentially sound even BETTER...


----------



## mbllbm

I'm looking for the Beyerdynamic Headphones for " cs 300" el84 gold lion
  what the best :
 dt 880 -600ohm or pro
 dt 990 - 600ohm
 T1

 thanks


----------



## Uri Cohen

Does anyone here owns the CS300?  I know people are getting the XS model since it's on Price Japan but my issue is I'll be using it for headphones only and I honestly don't know if there will be a difference between the 300 and the 300XS headphone amp wise.
   
  For those who use Grados (I own the RS-1i) why you think the Leben amps are less than perfect?  
   
  Also I will say that I have imported plenty of Japanese electronics over the years and NEVER needed to use a step-down converter.   One of my old friends was an electrician and he told me houses and apartments do vary on voltage (he see some houses as low as 104v and high as 130v).  A small difference in voltage will not be deadly as plugging in a 110v product in a 220v outlet.  
   
  If I get this (god willing if I have the cash) I will plug it in straight to the outlet.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK, so we disagree - that is all good, people can get different viewpoints.  Maybe the reason I found no difference is that I am using a power conditioner as well as the voltage converter, which I think helps the sound, whereas you do not use them as you believe power conditioners are detrimental to the sound of amps.
> 
> It's actually a little scary to me that the Leben could potentially sound even BETTER...


   
  iamoneagain has Jap version 100v A-T ATH-DHA3000 with ATH-L3000. He plugged the amp right into US 120v wall, no fire or explosion YET. Here are a few members doing the same thing. Well, you could one day plug-in yours direct into wall for a few min to test out. Let us know the result.


----------



## Skylab

I will do that one day when I see the AC drooping here to like 110V or so (mine is normally about 125V, on the high side).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> iamoneagain has Jap version 100v A-T ATH-DHA3000 with ATH-L3000. He plugged the amp right into US 120v wall, no fire or explosion YET. Here are a few members doing the same thing. Well, you could one day plug-in yours direct into wall for a few min to test out. Let us know the result.


 
  Jack has a switch on the back of his amps to switch between 110v-220v. There's no 120v so there's a 10v difference there when used in a 120v household. And what happens when 220v is used in a 220v home--does that decrease the SQ from when the switch was set to 110v? Why can't every amp have this switch feature? It seems like a simple solution.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Shameless repost but I hope people didn't forget about me:


  Does anyone here owns the CS300?  I know people are getting the XS model since it's on Price Japan but my issue is I'll be using it for headphones only and I honestly don't know if there will be a difference between the 300 and the 300XS headphone amp wise.

   

  For those who use Grados (I own the RS-1i) why you think the Leben amps are less than perfect?  

   

  Anyone?  (Wind blows).


----------



## arnesto

HyperDuel, I don't think you will be sorry to get the CS300 model.
   
  I would have bought that model if it was available.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> HyperDuel, I don't think you will be sorry to get the CS300 model.
> 
> I would have bought that model if it was available.


 

 I don't think I would be sorry if I get the 300 one, but like everyone here has the upgrade model.  I just don't know if the better parts will make the headphone amp sound better.


----------



## RedBull

Does anyone has a theory how a transformer-output amp, which, in theory, suitable only for low impedance headphone can sound very good on high impedance phone?  DIY experts, anyone?  I still don't get it.
   
   
  In any case, I should get my Leben tonight to give it a shot.


----------



## PhaedrusX

Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Does anyone here owns the CS300?  I know people are getting the XS model since it's on Price Japan but my issue is I'll be using it for headphones only and I honestly don't know if there will be a difference between the 300 and the 300XS headphone amp wise.
> 
> For those who use Grados (I own the RS-1i) why you think the Leben amps are less than perfect?
> 
> ...


 

 i've owned a standard CS300 for about a year and a half now, but have never heard an "X" version. Gu Sensei has owned both, and described the difference to me as an "audiophile upgrade." This makes sense to me, and indicates that the amount of difference you hear will probably depend on how seriously you listen to your gear, and how much faith you put into more spendy parts upgrades. i'm sure Mr. Sensei could elaborate further.
   
  and for what it's worth, i have no issues using Grados with the Leben, other than the small range of usable steps i get with the volume control.
   
  regarding the question of voltage, i would be very leery of running a 100V amp out of a 120V socket. as you say, voltages do vary and fluctuate. most appliances/electronics allow for tolerances within a small range, but anything above will harm and shorten the lifespan of your amp over time. at the very least, you should take measurements of your wall socket a few times over the course of a day to see what the values are, and how much they spike.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Shameless repost but I hope people didn't forget about me:
> 
> 
> Does anyone here owns the CS300?  I know people are getting the XS model since it's on Price Japan but my issue is I'll be using it for headphones only and I honestly don't know if there will be a difference between the 300 and the 300XS headphone amp wise.
> ...


 

 Hi.
   
  I have the CS300, but have not heard the XS, and use it with my Grados.
   
  With the CS300, my RS1 are as transparent as I've heard them (in my home) and the timbre is better than ever. This applies to my other headphones to.
   
  What the amp doesn't do is smooth things out, no rolled of treble or adding much midbass to make the sound warmer/smoother. To my ears, the amp let the RS1 really show itself in all it's glory, but it does not help with it's small drawbacks, which are a bit rolled of deep bass and raised treble compared to other higher-end phones. I've always liked the RS1 with vocals, and they really are supreme with this amp. Good recordings sound very good, but recordings which the RS1 usually have problems with will probably still be a problem with the CS300. One would probably have to change headphones or change to a more coloured amp to help the RS1 with them.
   
  I have not rolled tubes though so maybe other tube combinations could minimise the drawbacks of the RS1.
   
  As for volume and RS1, I find it perfect. I've never had any problem at all to use the volume I wanted with no channel imbalance issues.
   
  It's a very good amp, no doubt.


----------



## mbllbm

Quote: 





mbllbm said:


> I'm looking for the Beyerdynamic Headphones for " cs 300" el84 gold lion
> what the best :
> dt 880 -600ohm or pro
> dt 990 - 600ohm
> ...


 
*thanks* for *suggestion *


----------



## Radio_head

I'm looking at both tone imports and pricejapan for this.  Any feedback on those two sellers?


----------



## Uri Cohen

Price Japan is a lot cheaper than going thru Tone Imports.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Price Japan is a lot cheaper than going thru Tone Imports.


 

 I know its cheaper, and thats pricejapan's major plus.  I'm wondering about differences in quality, service, etc.  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Price Japan is much cheaper, but you get the 100V version.
   
  Tone imports will get you the 120V version (and presumably an easier way to get it fixed if there were a problem), but for about a 40% premium.


----------



## Uri Cohen

I would presume if you go thru Price Japan and there's a problem with the amp I would believe you would have to send the unit to Japan to get it fixed.  
   
  More things to think about honestly.


----------



## Seamaster

Can you order 120v version from Price Japan with "little" extra as special oder? That would save me over $2000 for CS600.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Can you order 120v version from Price Japan with "little" extra as special oder? That would save me over $2000 for CS600.


 

 Seamaster. Are you really interested in getting the CS600? From what I've read that amp is incredible. And it uses 6L6 family and EL34 family of tubes. Also 6550 and KT88 and 350B!!! That would give you more tube-rolling opportunities. Oh my!


----------



## RedBull

Mine arrived, yippeeee ....  after 2 months trying to convince my wife that Leben is worth every penny.
   
  It's heavier than it looks, but it's beautiful, the woods looks thick, sturdy and BEAUTIFUL, can't stop looking at the woods texture.
  The knobs have a very solid and smooth feel, better than DV (of course  )
   
  Quick impression (with DV337 and HD650 in mind).  I'm using the stock tubes now, Sovtek EL84 and GE 5751.
   
  It is definitely smoother than DV337, more refined, both vocals and HF.
   
  Soundstage I feel a tad smaller than DV, but totally acceptable, no complain there.
   
  Impact is less than DV in terms of kick bass and piano attack, maybe due to the output transformer effect, before, actually I find DV attack is a bit too strong, a little tiring for long use, so I want to find something more soothing, more relaxing, I think Leben fits nicely here.
   
  Detail, definitely very detail in almost every area, mid, high, I hear more detail that I don't in DV.  This amp impressively reveal a lot of detail on a low volume, I play Rebecca Pidgeon at 8 o'clock.  The singer's breath, emotion, string instrument's the very high end vibration, decay, ... aaahhhhhhh ........ addictive.
  Amazingly again, with so much detail, it doesn't come harsh on not so good recording, definitely a plus.
   
  Timbre, definitely, .... more realistic.
   
  And, I mentioned before that when I tried at the shop I heard a very small "bzzzzz" sound with my HD650, this one is completely silent, I'm lucky 
   
  That's all what I can think right now.  MONEY WELL SPENT!!!  NO REGRETS!!!!
   
  It's late now, I have to work tomorrow, I have to go sleep, but I still want to listen to Leben ..............................
   
  Thanks for Skylab and others for the suggestion and impressions


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> *****  That's all what I can think right now.  MONEY WELL SPENT!!!  NO REGRETS!!!!
> 
> Thanks for Skylab and others for the suggestion and impressions


 
  YES YES YES!!! I am so glad that you are now experiencing the Leben. Mine is buzzz-less as well. It is a beauty. The knobs are milled to almost razor precision. Gold-like. If Pharaoh Tutankhamun had an amp it would have been the Leben--it is that beautiful.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> YES YES YES!!! I am so glad that you are now experiencing the Leben. Mine is buzzz-less as well. It is a beauty. The knobs are milled to almost razor precision. Gold-like. If Pharaoh Tutankhamun had an amp it would have been the Leben--it is that beautiful.


 

 Ha ha ha, yes, the steps gap is a little to wide, but no problem, I can stop in the middle.
   
  Now my hands refuse to take the headphone out from my head ...


----------



## Skylab

@ Redbull - CONGRATS!  Your love affair can now begin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  @ Seamaster - According to the US Importer (Tone Imports), you can only get the US Voltage version from them, and when I asked PriceJapan what version they had, they said 100V only.  (Note however, that I bought mine used from Gu Sensei).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Ha ha ha, yes, the steps gap is a little to wide, but no problem, I can stop in the middle.
> 
> Now my hands refuse to take the headphone out from my head ...


 

 Isn't that funny. It must be psychological though. I feel that the perfect volume setting is always between the steps. Rarely on it. I wonder why they've used detents on the volume knob. As I understand it the potentiometer is an ALPS, Blue Velvet 100K Stereo RK27112 which is not a stepped at all.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Seamaster. Are you really interested in getting the CS600?


 

 You know me by now. If I want bite bullet, I want bite really hard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I am not sure I would like the "young wine" signature of CS300x. If the review is accurate, CS600 seems more to my liking.


  
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quick impression (with DV337 and HD650 in mind).  I'm using the stock tubes now, Sovtek EL84 and GE 5751.
> 
> It is definitely smoother than DV337, more refined, both vocals and HF.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you try to use bass boost on the amp?
   
  Leben did not totally kill the DV337... hum... that make me wondering about 339. Can someone clear this? To save me from many sleepless nights of thinking this!


  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> @ Seamaster - According to the US Importer (Tone Imports), you can only get the US Voltage version from them, and when I asked PriceJapan what version they had, they said 100V only.  (Note however, that I bought mine used from Gu Sensei).


 

 That's some middle man horse Sh**t.
   
  Back then I called DarkVoice and Shanling factory, they were willing to send out US version to an address in China. Ofourse, I do have friends over there to make this painless.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> You know me by now. If I want bite bullet, I want bite really hard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I do know you by now and it would seem that CS600 would be more your speed. I wonder if there is a place near you or within a 2-hour drive (remember your Woo mods?) that you can drive to to audition a CS600. There has to be.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> That's some middle man horse Sh**t.
> 
> Back then I called DarkVoice and Shanling factory, they were willing to send out US version to an address in China. Ofourse, I do have friends over there to make this painless.


 

 Yeah, Tone Imports turned me off big time - they wanted me to buy from a dealer in Cleveland - 7 hours away from me - for full list.  No dealer in Chicago, but Tone would not sell to me direct.  Screw that. 
   
  But given there is a US importer, I am sure Leben would not cut them out.  Distribution is very important in Japanese business culture.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Except for Skylab's case I don't see too much of an issue running 100v products in a 120v outlet.  Then again I been importing Japanese electronics for years and never I had any product giving me problems.  Of course check your voltage in your house/apartment before importing to be on the safe side.  
   
  Or maybe I'm crazy......


----------



## Radio_head

Thanks for all the input guys.  I think a Leben from pricejapan is going to be my next big upgrade.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, Tone Imports turned me off big time - they wanted me to buy from a dealer in Cleveland - 7 hours away from me - for full list.  No dealer in Chicago, but Tone would not sell to me direct.  Screw that.
> 
> But given there is a US importer, I am sure Leben would not cut them out.  Distribution is very important in Japanese business culture.


 
  I actually have a really good relationship with Tone Imports and their San Francisco Dealer, Pitch Perfect Audio. When I was interested in buying the Leben I emailed Jonathan Halpern of Tone Imports in NY and he forwarded my request to Matt Rotunda whose dealership is about 7 blocks from me in San Francisco. But Matt was in Los Angeles for a few weeks so he actually took care of my order from L.A. When Tone Imports received the amp from Japan it was shipped to Matt. Matt said that the amp would ship to him first so that he could make sure the it was okay. Then Matt shipped it to me. There were no shipping charges. Jonathan and Matt answer my email questions immediately (usually within hours). Their after product support is superior. I feel that kind of attention + a 120v Leben is worth it.


----------



## Skylab

I would have paid the extra $$$ to buy from a LOCAL (read: Chicago Area) dealer where I would get local support.  But NO WAY was I going to pay full list to buy from a dealer in Cleveland.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Yes, I see. A seven-hour drive is a long drive. X2 no doubt. You would have to return home, right?


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> You know me by now. If I want bite bullet, I want bite really hard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Doooooooo iiiit!  Then I can audition a Leben locally.


----------



## ztsen

the headphone output is directly coming from the output transformer and the output transformer of CS300 and CS300XS are different. As a result, the sound between CS300 and CS300XS will be different.
  
  Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Shameless repost but I hope people didn't forget about me:
> 
> 
> Does anyone here owns the CS300?  I know people are getting the XS model since it's on Price Japan but my issue is I'll be using it for headphones only and I honestly don't know if there will be a difference between the 300 and the 300XS headphone amp wise.
> ...


----------



## Uri Cohen

Thanks.  Sounds like the XS will be up my alley.  I might have to try it out before I'm buying.  Since I don't know anyone in Florida who owns one I have no other choice but:

 PLANE TICKET 
  
  Quote: 





ztsen said:


> the headphone output is directly coming from the output transformer and the output transformer of CS300 and CS300XS are different. As a result, the sound between CS300 and CS300XS will be different.


----------



## Seamaster

Hello Griffin,
   
  Thanks for your information-
   
  $5,795 is the retail price.  It's been this price for quite a bit of time.
   
   
  Sincerely,
  Matt

   On Aug 17, 2010, at 9:50 AM, GRIFFIN CUI wrote:



> [size=10pt] I am plan to use CS600 as 50% headphone amp, and 50% speaker amp. Either Zu, Spendor, harbeth speakers or in that nature. $5795 is a quite mark-up from original price. Thanks
> 
> Best regards
> 
> ...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





equus said:


> Doooooooo iiiit!  Then I can audition a Leben locally.


 

 OK, only you buy me some beer.
   
  Oh, no. I just quit drinking since 27July2010 for one full year. It was all caused by a promise, stupid me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> OK, only you buy me some beer.
> 
> Oh, no. I just quit drinking since 27July2010 for one full year. It was all caused by a promise, stupid me.


 
   
  Never make a promise you can't keep. And I'm sure you'll keep your promise. So how about a martini, then.


----------



## Uri Cohen

What about wine?


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> OK, only you buy me some beer.
> 
> Oh, no. I just quit drinking since 27July2010 for one full year. It was all caused by a promise, stupid me.


 
   
  Maybe a vodka cucumber martini or some nice merlot or something?  I can do that.  Worse comes to worse, I'll cook you up some teriyaki beef using my family's recipe.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Hahahahah.
   
  I just email Tone Imports and because I live in the Southeast there are no Leben dealers in this area of the US.


----------



## Double F

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I actually have a really good relationship with Tone Imports and their San Francisco Dealer, Pitch Perfect Audio. When I was interested in buying the Leben I emailed Jonathan Halpern of Tone Imports in NY and he forwarded my request to Matt Rotunda whose dealership is about 7 blocks from me in San Francisco. But Matt was in Los Angeles for a few weeks so he actually took care of my order from L.A. When Tone Imports received the amp from Japan it was shipped to Matt. Matt said that the amp would ship to him first so that he could make sure the it was okay. Then Matt shipped it to me. There were no shipping charges. Jonathan and Matt answer my email questions immediately (usually within hours). Their after product support is superior. I feel that kind of attention + a 120v Leben is worth it.


 
  The $1,000 I saved using price japan will be buying my LCD-2s.  If I ever get a email


----------



## TigzStudio

Clatyon/Seamaster,
   
  Im not that far from S.F. do they have the cs300 model as well?  Do you know the price?  $1,000+ markup for the xs model is a bit nuts.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> Seamaster. Are you really interested in getting the CS600? From what I've read that amp is incredible. And it uses 6L6 family and EL34 family of tubes. Also 6550 and KT88 and 350B!!! That would give you more tube-rolling opportunities. Oh my!


 

 Imagine this
   
  "By switching two selectors inside of the cabinet, you can use either of 6L6GC or 6CA7 (EL34) , and LED indicators on the front panel will show you which tube is applied."
   
  Changing tubes used just by turning knobs? how wonderful that is.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Isn't that funny. It must be psychological though. I feel that the perfect volume setting is always between the steps. Rarely on it. I wonder why they've used detents on the volume knob. As I understand it the potentiometer is an ALPS, Blue Velvet 100K Stereo RK27112 which is not a stepped at all.


 

 I'm in your camp.  Maybe it would benefit speaker listener more.  The shop asked me, "so you will use this amp primarily just for headphone??"  He feed this amp with a shiny 10K German cd player (can't remember the name) and 22K Tidal speaker, 86Db efficiency with ceramic driver, I was still ... WOW ..., even with 5751 tubes which should be lesser power then the 12AX7.  He played vocal jazz music tho, he briefly played Jack Johnson, but I did not really pay attention on speaker sound at that time, I was so eagerly waiting my turn to plug in my HD650.
  
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Did you try to use bass boost on the amp?
> 
> Leben did not totally kill the DV337... hum... that make me wondering about 339. Can someone clear this? To save me from many sleepless nights of thinking this!


 
   
  Yes, I did, to me, the bass boost will benefit more for low level listening where, for some people, including me, the vocal 'weight' sometime is less, but it doesn't increase 'attack' tho.  But surely slightly less detail than 'plain' to trade for better tonality for low level listening.
   
  Yeah, that's what I thought too, surely DV337 is a tough bull to kill.  I will keep it for sometime.
  
  To me, Leben is more finesee and DV is more attack and dynamic, brute force.  If it's a car, DV is Mustang and Leben is Mercedes, not particularly 'hey, look at me' but detail and timbre is pretty, elegance.
   
  Never heard of CS600, so I can't comment myself, but from what I read (for speaker), CS600 is a little darker than CS300XS.  If CS300XS highlight the string sound of a string instrument, CS600 highlight the body of a string instrument.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Imagine this
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the info. Sounds like CS600 is better for me. Listen to YuYuMa and guitar never sound right with Luxman P-1u which is highlight the string sound of a string instrument, sound better and at home with modded WA22. Just same as CS300XS VS CS600 in tone (looks like in this case).


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


seamaster said:


> Thanks for the info. Sounds like CS600 is better for me. Listen to YuYuMa and guitar never sound right with Luxman P-1u which is highlight the string sound of a string instrument, sound better and at home with modded WA22. Just same as CS300XS VS CS600 in tone (looks like in this case).


 

 That's what I read for speaker tho, but for headphone maybe different, I don't know.
  For headphone, CS300XS string sounds as right as it could get.
   
  Btw, just to share my happines, photo below.  Ladies and gentleman, my new Motion Sound


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG, RedBull! Separated at birth! It looks just like mine!
  Enjoy and don't forget to eat.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> OMG, RedBull! Separated at birth! It looks just like mine!
> Enjoy and don't forget to eat.


 
   
  Do you also have this problem, it's extremely difficult to press the Power Off button?
   
  Eat? what eat?


----------



## Uri Cohen

I can put this on the credit card right now but I know I can't afford it at this time.   
   
  Love your amp by the way.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Do you also have this problem, it's extremely difficult to press the Power Off button?
> 
> Eat? what eat?


 
   
  No. I don't have that problem. Mine is a rocker switch. I press the top of the switch to turn it on and the bottom of it to turn if off. Maybe your rocker switch is just tight.
   
  Or you're just off your rocker!!!
   
  And why are you up so late?


----------



## Uri Cohen

It's about to be 1:00 PM in Singapore.


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Does anyone here owns the CS300?  I know people are getting the XS model since it's on Price Japan but my issue is I'll be using it for headphones only and I honestly don't know if there will be a difference between the 300 and the 300XS headphone amp wise.
> 
> For those who use Grados (I own the RS-1i) why you think the Leben amps are less than perfect?


 

 As mentioned previously, I have owned both but never really directly compared them in any sort of meaningful way. I definitely felt a noticeable 'audiophile' jump in 'general refinement' going from the CS300 to the CS300X-Ltd, but I was pretty darn excited at the time (the beginning of this thread). I can say though that (outside of upgrade-itis) I was extremely happy with the CS300. I had the HA5000 and an Apache on hand and pretty consistently came to the conclusion that I liked what was happening with Leben more than the others. Both completely fabulous amps, but preference kept falling to the Leben. Except with my Grados, I liked my HP1000s more with my Apache and my GS1000s and RS1s more with my HA5000. Again, probably more of a preference than anything else but those were my thoughts at the time.


----------



## Gu Sensei

Just an FYI if any new owners are interested:
   
  THL Audio in Hong Kong is a source for matching knobs for the Lebens. They sell the ones that are used for the CS300 which are not gold plated; a kind of dual-tone platinum. I think it is not too uncommon for the gold plated ones to flake. However, I replaced mine with the platinum because I just think they look better.
   
  That was one thing I did not like going from the CS300 to the CS300X!
   
  Here is the link: http://www.thlaudio.com/indexE.htm
  (You will need to click on Tuning knobs from the list on the left side of the screen)
   
SZ2724 tuning knob, 
SUZURANDO type,  27mm dia x 24mmH
 finish: light champagne 
   
SZ3825R Tuning knob,
hat shape, light champagne finish, 
mist finish on side,
 38mm dia. x 25mm H x43.5mm bottom rim
 * matching design with SZ2724


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Super thanks for the knob info. I didn't realize that those knobs on the CS300X flaked. Actually I didn't realize they were gold. Cool.


----------



## RedBull

clayton sf said:


> And why are you up so late?


 

 HyperDuel is right, I live in your opposite time zone.

  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Gu Sensei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Here is the link: http://www.thlaudio.com/indexE.htm


 
   
  Thanks for the info.  Do you know we can even change the whole faceplate if ever it get tarnished. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 http://cgi.ebay.com/LEBEN-CS300X-Tube-Int-Amp-Faceplate-switches-/220644319720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0


----------



## Uri Cohen

Leben:  So beautiful you can't even use it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Leben:  So beautiful you can't even use it.


 

 I've even been enjoying the smell of the seasoned wood (or are they the oils in the wood?) and the heated elephants elements fuming from the Leben. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is a warming feeling to know that the Leben is alive and well! I try not to inhale too deeply.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> I've even been enjoying the smell of the seasoned wood (or are they the oils in the wood?) and the heated elephants elements fuming from the Leben.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, smell?  mine doesn't smell, maybe that's a new 'features'    Leben with spa aromatheraphy, additional $200.


----------



## Clayton SF

That was the first thing I notice after removing the plastic wrap. It was very strong. My neighbor commented that it reminded him of a new-car smell. Not that it smelled like a new car but it invoked memories of a new car. Of course I've never smelled the inside of a Lamborghini even though there is a dealership 7 blocks from me. Vrrrrroom!


----------



## ztsen

eh, come on, at least a F4, F1.4 DOF is too narrow for a clear view of your new toy.  

  
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> That's what I read for speaker tho, but for headphone maybe different, I don't know.
> For headphone, CS300XS string sounds as right as it could get.
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Nice.... I think a Nikkor F1.2 would have suited the bill as well. If you could have found an F1.2 that is. We've seen them all but this just put in a different light, so to speak.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


ztsen said:


> eh, come on, at least a F4, F1.4 DOF is too narrow for a clear view of your new toy.


 

 Hahahaha, I was just have a quick snap, not tripod used, no flash, just wanna have a quick one   and that was 1.8 actually   but yeah, too narrow.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Nice.... I think a Nikkor F1.2 would have suited the bill as well. If you could have found an F1.2 that is. We've seen them all but this just put in a different light, so to speak.


 

 If I had Nikkor 1.2 I wouldn't have the $ to buy Leben, hahahaha ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hahahaha, I was just have a quick snap, not tripod used, no flash, just wanna have a quick one   and that was 1.8 actually   but yeah, too narrow.
> 
> If I had Nikkor 1.2 I wouldn't have the $ to buy Leben, hahahaha ...


 

 Not too narrow for me. It sort of draws me in. It's like the Leben is saying: "Come closer, closer. I am now your Master, and you will listen to me."


----------



## arnesto

I have been enjoying the Leben with my speakers in the early evenings and switching over to headphones after 10PM.
   
  I was pleasantly surprised that 15watts drive my speakers very well. I have to raise the volume setting to 12-2 o'clock and it is loud enough. I can definitely hear the effect of having a tubed amp on my speakers as well as headphones.
   
  I am content with my new amp, but the upgradis bug will not leave me alone. I have been contemplating upgrading my DAC or trying electrostats.


----------



## Clayton SF

Very nice setup. I've read that the Lavry DA10 is an excellent DAC? I am very interested in the Bryston BDA-1.


----------



## arnesto

When I first got my Lavry, it sounded alot better than the built in DAC on my Onix CD player. I heard more detail than I ever heard before. But being on this website, alot of the members have owned the Lavry and moved on the different DACs that they say are better. So I eventually want to try the other ones to see what I am missing.


----------



## shabta

What kind of speakers are people using with their Leben? I am thinking of getting a pair-but they need to sound good at low volume because of my neighbors. Rockin out is still for my 'fones...


----------



## majkel

Reference 3A monitors or kind of Avantgarde Acoustics.


----------



## arnesto

I have been doing a A/B comparison between my headphones and my speakers.
   
  I came to the conclusion that my speakers sound better than my headphones.
   
  The difference is not big, but still this kind of disturbs me.
   
  I do not think it is the amp's fault, and the limitation is from my headphones.
   
  The sound is just more dynamic and natural through speakers.
   
  Do you guys know if there are headphones that can beat speakers?
   
  I'm thinking of trying electrostatics, but when I listened to them at a meet. It just wasn't my cup of tea. Sounded kind of flat.
   
  Any recommendations?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> I have been doing a A/B comparison between my headphones and my speakers.
> I came to the conclusion that my speakers sound better than my headphones.
> The difference is not big, but still this kind of disturbs me.
> I do not think it is the amp's fault, and the limitation is from my headphones.
> ...


 
   
  I don't know if you've had a chance to listen to the Beyerdynamic DT900/600 ohm headphones but I own them and I really enjoy them. They do sound incredible when used with the Leben.


----------



## arnesto

Thanks for the recommendation. I listened to the DT880 before and I liked them, haven't had a chance to do an A/B comparison yet.


----------



## achristilaw

Well Arnesto, I'm a source first individual...and that pays dividends when you have a neutral amp such as the Leben (with right tube compliment). The signal passes with little in the way of editorializing and makes a great match for a phone such as the Audez'e....
   
  I have several home-brew horns that are folded single-element drivers that are silly good from an amp like the CS300XS. Don't forget the near-field possibility and a small monitor like the baby Harbeth (a favorite)!! I have all of these and recommend them...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> Well Arnesto, I'm a source first individual...and that pays dividends when you have a neutral amp such as the Leben (with right tube compliment). The signal passes with little in the way of editorializing and makes a great match for a phone such as the Audez'e....
> 
> I have several home-brew horns that are folded single-element drivers that are silly good from an amp like the CS300XS. Don't forget the near-field possibility and a small monitor like the baby _*Harbeth (a favorite)!! *_I have all of these and recommend them...


 
  The Harbeth, really? I've been interested in those monitors from the UK. They're great looking but a review I read said that their bass response was lacking. I'd really like to get something in that size category because I live in a small apartment. I need to find a place to audition them. Thanks for mentioning them.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Harbeth, really? I've been interested in those monitors from the UK. They're great looking but a review I read said that their bass response was lacking. I'd really like to get something in that size category because I live in a small apartment. I need to find a place to audition them. Thanks for mentioning them.


 

 I have a couple Harbeth's, the older HL3P's and C7's. The smaller monitor (the HL3P or current P3R) is for small listening areas, or near-field monitoring (like I use them). I don't know your listening tastes or loudness habits, but they (the Harbeth) is best suited for Jazz or small scale Classical. Tone and Timber is their focus and it shows (and good balance with proper placement). Realistic Acoustic Bass differs from the needs of the bump n' thump of modern electronic Music.
   
  The power of the Leben and the output of the small Harbeth is for sane listening of Acoustic at just under natural levels.....in small rooms. With a small apartment, they could be on a short list.
   
  For 35 years I have always had a small LS3/5a type of monitor about. It started with the Roger's (KEF stopped production of the mid/woof) to a Spendor later...then ten years ago the Harbeth. Always in a bedroom or desk location as a second system, now a near-field. Very clear windows of an acoustic event!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





achristilaw said:


> I have a couple Harbeth's, the older HL3P's and C7's. The smaller monitor (the HL3P or current P3R) is for small listening areas, or near-field monitoring (like I use them). I don't know your listening tastes or loudness habits, but they (the Harbeth) is best suited for Jazz or small scale Classical. Tone and Timber is their focus and it shows (and good balance with proper placement). Realistic Acoustic Bass differs from the needs of the bump n' thump of modern electronic Music.
> 
> The power of the Leben and the output of the small Harbeth is for sane listening of Acoustic at just under natural levels.....in small rooms. With a small apartment, they could be on a short list.
> 
> For 35 years I have always had a small LS3/5a type of monitor about. It started with the Roger's (KEF stopped production of the mid/woof) to a Spendor later...then ten years ago the Harbeth. Always in a bedroom or desk location as a second system, now a near-field. Very clear windows of an acoustic event!


 

 That's the ticket then. I usually listen to classical, jazz, and folk; and rock at low-levels. Classical is of the string quartet and chamber music variety with an occasional full-tilt orchestral arrangement like Rachmaninoff--Symphonic Dances (Eiji Oue, MO) but that's when the headphones usually take over. Thanks for your help.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> I have been doing a A/B comparison between my headphones and my speakers.
> I came to the conclusion that my speakers sound better than my headphones.
> The difference is not big, but still this kind of disturbs me.
> I do not think it is the amp's fault, and the limitation is from my headphones.
> ...


 

 Other than LCD-2 that has been mentioned, how about T1? it sounded fantastic with Leben too.  Believe it or not, I still prefer HD650 than HD800.  Other than that, yeah, DT880 600 ohms is very nice too, D7000 mentioned has speaker kind of subwofer lows, but I guess it may not suitable for Jazz or classical.


----------



## dkyy

Hi,

 After seeing so many good comments about Leben CS300XS, I recently bought it from a local dealer in Hong Kong. I am running in it for about 100 hours.

 I like warm and lush female vocal, but I found the CS300XS' treble is quite harsh. I know most of you may not agree to my statement but the situation in my system is the female vocal sounds sibilant, very sibilant - the 'hissssssss' sound is killing me.
   
  I have used a Cardas Golden Cross inter-connect but seems not improved much. My set up is

 Logitech Transporter (music ripped from CDs in FLAC format) --> Cardas Golden Cross --> Leben CS300XS --> Audio Note AN-La cables --> Cairn floor-standing speakers
   
  I also use Denon D5000, but with similar sibilance. I initially used stock tubes but later changed to Mullard 4004 and Philips SQ EL84 but they do not help much.

 What went wrong?


----------



## Skylab

The CS300XS is a pretty neutral sounding amp.  It isn't the kind of amp that is going to smooth over sibilance that is on the recording.


----------



## achristilaw

The Leben is not a "Tubey" amp...it is very neutral and will show the source (and later the phone, once the source is straightened out) for what it is. If you want attenuation (at both frequency extremes) and a lush euphonic effect try a single-ended triode, that would offer the soft "glowing" roundness your looking after. That isn't to my liking as I shy away from typical triode sound....
   
   The "knock" on the EL84 pentode in audiophile circles is that it sounds solid-state (because of it's extension) and less like a typical tube (when used in ultra-linear)...I say "Yeah Baby"!!
   
  ALSO:
   
  It (the Leben) takes a bit (80+ hrs.) of burn in to settle down!! It's raw sounding the first few hours....


----------



## ztsen

May I know what female vocal/album are you listening?
  
  Quote: 





dkyy said:


> Hi,
> 
> After seeing so many good comments about Leben CS300XS, I recently bought it from a local dealer in Hong Kong. I am running in it for about 100 hours.
> 
> ...


----------



## MikeLa

I agree with Skylab and achristilw.  I haven't heard the Logitech Transporter but that would be the first place I would look.  Do you have the opportunity to swap out the Transporter with another source to try and isolate where the sibilance is coming from?


----------



## godog

Quote: 





dkyy said:


> Hi,
> 
> After seeing so many good comments about Leben CS300XS, I recently bought it from a local dealer in Hong Kong. I am running in it for about 100 hours.
> 
> ...


 

 hi, did you buy yr cs300xs at MK Tak Fat basement? may i know how much u paid for it?
  my cs300xs doesn't have unbearable silbilance, much much much better than all SS amp i currently and previously owned. I have a pair of 4000-hours D5000, and no sibilance with cs300xs too.
  I think you can play around with the AC outlet, powerbar, and power cord. They affect the sound very very much. OR add a lush sounding dac like berkeley alpha DAC.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


mikela said:


> I agree with Skylab and achristilw.  I haven't heard the Logitech Transporter but that would be the first place I would look.  Do you have the opportunity to swap out the Transporter with another source to try and isolate where the sibilance is coming from?


 

 Very very possible


----------



## dkyy

Yes I bought it at MK. I promised the shop not to disclose the price in public but I can send you a PM.
   
  If the sibilance does not come from Leben, then my next guess is it coming from the Logitech Transporter because I bought both almost at the same time. I do agree that some sibilance could have been in the recording, but my observation is the whole system sounds brighter than before in general. In the past, I used SqueezeBox 3 with CIAudio VDA-2 DAC and KICAS Caliente. The system sounds warm but the sound stage and treble extension are not as good as Leben.
   
  I have just bought a used Lavry DA11 to fit between the Transporter and Leben. Will see how it goes. Do you have any recommendations on power outlet and power cord? I am currently using PS Audio Quet power centre and VDH Mainsstream power cable.
   
  Quote: 





godog said:


> hi, did you buy yr cs300xs at MK Tak Fat basement? may i know how much u paid for it?
> my cs300xs doesn't have unbearable silbilance, much much much better than all SS amp i currently and previously owned. I have a pair of 4000-hours D5000, and no sibilance with cs300xs too.
> I think you can play around with the AC outlet, powerbar, and power cord. They affect the sound very very much. OR add a lush sounding dac like berkeley alpha DAC.


----------



## arnesto

I use the Lavry and Leben combo. The headphone out of the Lavry sounds clear and I like it, but with some instruments, it sounds thin.
   
  The Leben doesn't add any any shrill or high frequencies, but does add a little bit of decay to the sound which gives it a more natural full sound to it.
   
  If you still get that high sibilant sound I would try something different than the Transporter.
   
  The big bros at Head-fi will not steer your wrong. I hope this fixes your problem.


----------



## Skylab

Well...I just bought another Leben - this one a CS300, but proper USA voltage. Will be interesting to compare that to my 100 V wired CS300X...

 Should have it by next weekend.


----------



## arnesto

Skylab, I know you said that you are a headphone guy, but the Leben really shines as a speaker amp and the headphone out is just a nice to have on the Leben.
   
  I thought my headphones sounded good until I hooked up speakers to it. Now, I only want to use it as a speaker amp.
   
  If you haven't given it a try, I just thought I would mention it.


----------



## TigzStudio

Do you have a secret source for your Leben procurement?  Or did you get it used?  Tone imports?
   
  The Leben is back on my list for another rig after I get my antelope word clock to go with my Zodiac+
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well...I just bought another Leben - this one a CS300, but proper USA voltage. Will be interesting to compare that to my 100 V wired CS300X...
> 
> Should have it by next weekend.


----------



## dkyy

Quote: 





dkyy said:


> Yes I bought it at MK. I promised the shop not to disclose the price in public but I can send you a PM.
> 
> If the sibilance does not come from Leben, then my next guess is it coming from the Logitech Transporter because I bought both almost at the same time. I do agree that some sibilance could have been in the recording, but my observation is the whole system sounds brighter than before in general. In the past, I used SqueezeBox 3 with CIAudio VDA-2 DAC and KICAS Caliente. The system sounds warm but the sound stage and treble extension are not as good as Leben.
> 
> I have just bought a used Lavry DA11 to fit between the Transporter and Leben. Will see how it goes. Do you have any recommendations on power outlet and power cord? I am currently using PS Audio Quet power centre and VDH Mainsstream power cable.


 

 Now I haven't concluded yet, but after further investigation my guess of the serious sibilance is due to a combination of factors:
   
  1) The treble of the Transporter sounds harsh and forward. I bought it new only one month ago and haven't completely burn it in. So I will keep playing it non-stop for the next few days and see how it goes. The positive-feedback reviews of Transporter is in the same opinion of this: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue30/transporter.htm
  2) Some of my recordings, especially those made in China, does have emphasized highs that push the sibilance further.
  3) Adding a Lavry DA11 (to replace to internal DAC of Transporter) does help warm the sound up. The sibilance is now less serious than before.
  4) Leben sounds more neutral than the warm-sounding KICAS/Caliente which had neutralized the sibilance of the recordings in my previous set-up.
   
  I am now convinced that buying the Leben is a correct decision. But I need to deal with the Transporter for its forward and excited sound characteristics. Any advice?
   
  Has anyone used Linn Majik DS before? How does it sound?


----------



## Skylab

Tigz, I got this one used on Audiogon. There was a CS300X on Ebay for basically full price. I went on Audiogon to see if it was doublet listed. It wasn't, but I happened to spot the CS300, and snapped it up. I don't see used Leben very often on Audiogon.

 Arnesto, I love speakers, but my speakers are B&W Nautilus 800's, which are NOT going to pair well with the Leben. They need a bare minimum of 250 wpc, but I found even that wasn't really enough. My 600 wpc Sunfire does the trick though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So the Leben has to be used for headphones, for me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well...I just bought another Leben - this one a CS300, but proper USA voltage. Will be interesting to compare that to my 100 V wired CS300X...
> 
> Should have it by next weekend.


 

 Wow. Another Leben. If I were your son or a member of your household of music machines, I'd never leave! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the purchase of a 120v Leben.


----------



## SleepyOne

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. Another Leben.


 


  X2
   
  Congratulation! Looking forward to see what you think re: difference between the CS300X and CS300!!


----------



## volume

The point which surpirses the most is the amp is a freakin integrated amp, the Japanese comapany Leben would have never felt it would be such a big hit with a headphone community.
   
  I always was under the impression that no matter what anyone says Integrated amps have seriously flawed headphone outs, feel I was wrong this time.
   
  May I ask who was the determined one to find out about using Leben with headphones.


----------



## Henmyr

x2
  
  Quote: 





sleepyone said:


> X2
> 
> Congratulation! Looking forward to see what you think re: difference between the CS300X and CS300!!


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


skylab said:


> Well...I just bought another Leben - this one a CS300, but proper USA voltage. Will be interesting to compare that to my 100 V wired CS300X...
> 
> Should have it by next weekend.


 

 Like what you said, a Leben in every room?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I plan to use one of these Lebens in the family room in place of the WA6.  I will decide which one sounds better - the CS300X which requires the 120V>100V step down transformer, or the CS300, which supposedly has a few less premium parts, but is wired for 120V.
   
  As for using the Leben as a headphone amp, the difference between many tube integrated amps, and many solid state integrated amps, is that the SS amps often use a separate headphone section based off a cheap op-amp, and don;t drive the headphones off the main power amp section.  In the case of the Leben, the headphones are driven off the same output transformers that the speakers are driven off, with a switch required to choose between speakers and headphones.  This is why it's such a good headphone amp - you;re listening to the same amp either way, speakers or headphones.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I plan to use one of these Lebens in the family room in place of the WA6.  I will decide which one sounds better - the CS300X which requires the 120V>100V step down transformer, or the CS300, which supposedly has a few less premium parts, but is wired for 120V.
> 
> As for using the Leben as a headphone amp, the difference between many tube integrated amps, and many solid state integrated amps, is that the SS amps often use a separate headphone section based off a cheap op-amp, and don't drive the headphones off the main power amp section.  *In the case of the Leben, the headphones are driven off the same output transformers that the speakers are driven off, with a switch required to choose between speakers and headphones.  *This is why it's such a good headphone amp - you;re listening to the same amp either way, speakers or headphones.


 

 Great explanation. A simple switch sounds like a simple solution to make an integrated amp a great sounding headphone amp. I wonder why other manufacturers just don't do that.


----------



## Skylab

If I understand the situation correctly (and I cannot swear I do exactly), doing it this way is a bit unique to amps using output transformers.  The headphone output of the Leben uses a winding of the output transformer ("tap") optimal for 32 ohms, whereas the speaker outs have taps for 4, 8, and 16 ohms (with a switch on the back).  This helps match the amp to the impedance of the headphones.
   
  In the case of a solid state integrated, the main power amp section, if diverted to headphone jack, would provide MUCH less power into a typical headphone impedance than it would into an 8 ohm speaker load.  And since almost no SS amps use output transformers, you cannot match impedance that way, so something else has to be done.  I guess at least in some cases, the designer felt it was better just to amp the headphones separately with an IC, which is a shame.


----------



## volume

I have to agree a simple and nice explanation.I feel the same why don'y other manufacturers follow suite,
   
  What is the reason we have to pay exorbitant amounts for these vintage products,I felt we were moving forward,where electronics were getting cheap.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


skylab said:


> Yes, I plan to use one of these Lebens in the family room in place of the WA6.  I will decide which one sounds better - the CS300X which requires the 120V>100V step down transformer, or the CS300, which supposedly has a few less premium parts, but is wired for 120V.


 
   
  Hope you don't make me sell my recently-bought Leben


----------



## ztsen

you are not using step down transformer, don't see why you need to sell it.
  
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hope you don't make me sell my recently-bought Leben


----------



## RedBull

^ how about itchyness?


----------



## johangrb

For those looking - another one one Canuck:
   
  http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/194945-_leben_cs30012_watts_el84/


----------



## daveDerek

is that amp capable of driving akg k1000s, and if so how well do they pair?


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





davederek said:


> is that amp capable of driving akg k1000s, and if so how well do they pair?


 

  
  I think they pair very well. It definitely has enough power to drive K1000, but I don't know how sound compares to favourites like FirstWatt.


----------



## Skylab

So my 120V wired CS300 has arrived. It does look a little different internally, but not much. Externally of course it's identical to the CS300X.

 Sonically, it's very difficult to get a direct comparison, since that would require having the same set of tubes in both, and I don't. In the CS300 I'm using GE 6BQ5's and the famous Raytheon windmill-getter 5751, whereas in the CS300X I have Sylvania 6BQ5's and JAN-Hytron 5751's. But the sound it still very,very similar between the two. I connected them side by side, with the same source, and level-matched them, and there are some subtle differences, but these could easily be due to the different tubes. If anything, I slightly prefer the CS300X.

 So at least for now, my conclusion is that there is no huge penalty to be paid for having the step-down transformer - and maybe no penalty at all.


----------



## TigzStudio

What would we do without Skylab!  Sure maybe we would have more money in our wallets, but thanks man....im sure this will help ease others as well looking to buy a Leben.  I now am not too worried about the step down thing if I happen to find one on the used market.  If I end up buying one new I think I will go for the built in 120v.  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So my 120V wired CS300 has arrived. It does look a little different internally, but not much. Externally of course it's identical to the CS300X.
> 
> Sonically, it's very difficult to get a direct comparison, since that would require having the same set of tubes in both, and I don't. In the CS300 I'm using GE 6BQ5's and the famous Raytheon windmill-getter 5751, whereas in the CS300X I have Sylvania 6BQ5's and JAN-Hytron 5751's. But the sound it still very,very similar between the two. I connected them side by side, with the same source, and level-matched them, and there are some subtle differences, but these could easily be due to the different tubes. If anything, I slightly prefer the CS300X.
> 
> So at least for now, my conclusion is that there is no huge penalty to be paid for having the step-down transformer - and maybe no penalty at all.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So my 120V wired CS300 has arrived. It does look a little different internally, but not much. Externally of course it's identical to the CS300X.
> 
> Sonically, it's very difficult to get a direct comparison, since that would require having the same set of tubes in both, and I don't. In the CS300 I'm using GE 6BQ5's and the famous Raytheon windmill-getter 5751, whereas in the CS300X I have Sylvania 6BQ5's and JAN-Hytron 5751's. But the sound it still very,very similar between the two. I connected them side by side, with the same source, and level-matched them, and there are some subtle differences, but these could easily be due to the different tubes. If anything, I slightly prefer the CS300X.
> 
> So at least for now, my conclusion is that there is no huge penalty to be paid for having the step-down transformer - and maybe no penalty at all.


 

 Thanks for the conclusion on Step Down transformer, that really is helpful, practical test rather than only theory.
   
  Would be interesting if you post comment about the treble impression, as the X version suppose to edge on treble extension due to the 'specially' designed Transformer mostly for treble extension.


----------



## Skylab

I did most of my comparison listening with my Ultrasone Edition 8's, since those are the headphones I have been primarily using with the Leben (and a wonderful pairing it is, I might add).  The Ultrasones have very clear and extended treble, and I felt this was provided in full measure with both of the Lebens - I did not notice any roll off in the treble with the CS300, at all.  As a caveat, I am almost 44 years old, and while I can hear 19kHz, I cannot hear 22 kHz.  SO if the difference is only at the borderline ultrasonic area, this is not something I would be able to detect.


----------



## shabta

Sometimes I suspect that the reason the HD800 treble doesn't bother me the way it does some of you is because of the possibility that my 50 year old ears have treble roll off....


----------



## RedBull

Thanks Skylab.


----------



## ztsen

Then will be good news for people who budget restricted and just go for CS300 model. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So my 120V wired CS300 has arrived. It does look a little different internally, but not much. Externally of course it's identical to the CS300X.
> 
> Sonically, it's very difficult to get a direct comparison, since that would require having the same set of tubes in both, and I don't. In the CS300 I'm using GE 6BQ5's and the famous Raytheon windmill-getter 5751, whereas in the CS300X I have Sylvania 6BQ5's and JAN-Hytron 5751's. But the sound it still very,very similar between the two. I connected them side by side, with the same source, and level-matched them, and there are some subtle differences, but these could easily be due to the different tubes. If anything, I slightly prefer the CS300X.
> 
> So at least for now, my conclusion is that there is no huge penalty to be paid for having the step-down transformer - and maybe no penalty at all.


----------



## arnesto

After spending some time with my Leben CS300xs and the HD800 combo. Now that I have had it for some time.
   
  I noticed some songs, for example when Jewel sings, because she has a high pitched voice and her vocal range is in the high frequencies, out of the Leben her voice comes out in the middle frequency range.
   
  Her voice sounds deeper, I initially mistaken this for and said it sounded dull, but all the detail of the original sound is there, but the sound definitely is in a lower frequency range.
   
  I noticed this with other songs with female vocals that are in the high frequency range.
   
  Other songs with male singers, I can't tell and a difference and it sounds great, but with female vocals, it is starting to bother me some.
   
  I am wondering if this is something having to do with a tube design or is it possible to correct this by changing to different tubes.
   
  I haven't experimented much with different tubes because they are quite expensive. I am wondering if I should try something else like the Luxman if I can't fix this.


----------



## Skylab

I have never noticed that at all.  I listen to a lot of female vocal, too.  I find the Leben to be very neutral sounding, not "tubey" really at all.  So perhaps it is the tubes you are using?  What are those?


----------



## arnesto

I'm using the new Golden Lions bought at tubedepot. These are not NOS tubes.
   
  And the stock driver tubes.
   
  I noticed the Golden Lions sound the same to me as the stock tubes.
   
  Because I have a headphone output on my Lavry DA10, I am able to do alot of A/B comparisons between the headphone output on the Lavry and Leben.
   
  The Leben definitely sounds better, but the Lavry sounds better with high frequency female vocals. It sounds more accurate and clear.
   
  I like the Leben enough to keep it as a speaker amp, but I think the HD800 could sound better with either different tubes or amp.
   
  Not sure if different tubes could make that much of a difference.
   
  But if you notice there is enough of a difference to fix the problem, I will be willing to try ordering new tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Well, if the stock driver tubes are the Electro-harmonix, I think hose don't sound very good. Even the JAN Philips 5751, which are easy to get NOS from Tubedepot, will be much better, and are not too expensive.

 But if yours came with the GE 5751, which Leben was supplying for a while, then I'm not sure what to suggest. I don't notice the same issue you have, but I don't have HD800's either.


----------



## arnesto

Ok, thanks for your help. I'll have to check when I get home and I will order some new tubes. BTW, the tubes I have now are the 12ax7 tubes.
   
  This is a good reason to try the 5751 tubes.


----------



## Anders

arnesto, I am not sure about what your stock tubes are. Leben has for a long time used a JAN GE 5751 for stock tubes and I received it with these. They balance rather well with the Sovtek output tubes and the sound was beautiful but not quite natural. With an output tube that has not the brightness and sharpness of the Sovteks, I found the GE 5751 to be overly warm and smooth (IME). I liked other tubes much better like Tungsram and Brimar, although the Brimar is slightly recessed in the high end extension. Best bang for the bucks, and maybe best sound, was a pair of used Telefunken smooth plate ECC83 at a decent price. These worked very well together with the Golden Lion output tubes, with HD800. Siemens ECC83 have much high end extension if that is what you want, but I liked the Telefunken more. I also have good experience with Siemens EL84, fairly neutral and "much cheaper" than Mullards, that may be better but unfortunately I haven't heard them. Tungsram EL84 was very good and smoother and warmer than Siemens.
   
  The Golden Lion tubes should not sound the same as stock Sovtek, are they burned-in? Could need some hours of playing to clear up.
   
  It seems that Leben now use Sovtek input 12AX7A and that surprises me. Sovtek input and output tubes being too bright together and 12AX7LPS is generally regarded as the best Sovtek variant. I think the 12AX7LPS is a good and neutral tube but must be combined with a warmer and smoother output tube to give a balanced sound.
   
  Input tubes are important and I think they are at least as important as the output tubes for sound quality.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Anders, thank you. I shall be on the lookout for some of your suggested tubes. This is good information to keep on hand in case I want to put my Leben on a new diet of tried-and-true tubes.


----------



## arnesto

I bought the JJ 12AX7 tubes recently, I forgot I had them.
   
  I swapped out the stock Sovtek 12AX7 tubes yesterday.
   
  Right now I have the Golden Lion EL84 and the JJ 12AX7 tubes.
   
  Being that I am new to tubes, I didn't really believe different tubes could make much of a difference.
   
  After listening yesterday, I realized the difference isn't night and day, but it is a step in the right direction in sound.
   
  It has been fun trying these new tubes, without breaking my bank account, I'll shop around for those tubes you suggested.


----------



## arnesto

I went on the PriceJapan site to check out the Leben CS300XS, just wondering if anyone knew. But is says that this model has been discontinued.
   
  I wonder if they stopped carrying it or if the model is really going away.


----------



## RedBull

The 'operator' made a mistake, Leben discontinued CS-300X due to unavailability of Mullard tubes, but still sell CS-300XS.  The "S" stand for "Sovtek" I believe. 
  This has been asked and discussed before, just wanna summarize for you.
   
  How's your tube rolling experiment going?
   
  "the Lavry sounds better with high frequency female vocals"
  My opinion is maybe, tube respond better on lower order harmonics as they're known for "lower order harmonic rich", compared to SS which has more higher order harmonics. 
  Since this is your first tubes, it may make sense that you're not used to this differences.  But I like tube sounds much more than SS, it's more my-taste.


----------



## arnesto

I'm finding that the Leben sounds smeared on the high frequency range. Mid range, sounds better on the Leben.
  There is a little decay on the sound that gives it a more natural sound.
  On the Low frequency range, there is more impact and sounds full and tight.
   
  On the Lavry, the high frequency range sound crisp, clear, and detailed. Mid range sounds thin is comparison to the Leben.
  The Low frequency has punch, but also sounds thin, too crisp, not natural.
   
  The perfect amplifier for me, would be an amp that can have the Lavry high frequency sound and the Leben mid and low frequency sound.
   
  I tried changing out the Sovtek driver tubes and replaced them with the JJ tubes. There is a slight difference, but not enough to fix the issue I
   
  am having with the high frequency sound.
   
  I don't think the Leben nor the Lavry will be my last stop on headphone gear. I do really like the HD800 and I think I need to find
  an amplifier to pair with it.
   
  Right now I am thinking I need to listen to the Luxman P-1u and the new Stax Omega 3?. To figure out my next upgrade.
   
  I do think the Leben is a keeper for driving speakers. It is an unique amp that will be hard to find something like in the future if
  Leben stops making them.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> The perfect amplifier for me, would be an amp that can have the Lavry high frequency sound and the Leben mid and low frequency sound.
> 
> I don't think the Leben nor the Lavry will be my last stop on headphone gear. I do really like the HD800 and I think I need to find an amplifier to pair with it.
> 
> Right now I am thinking I need to listen to the Luxman P-1u and the new Stax Omega 3?. To figure out my next upgrade.


 

 you've probably perused the threads where folks discuss different amp pairings with the 800s. aside from that i'd strongly recommend attending meets, in particular canjam, and listening to different rigs with your cans. it'll really help the process!


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

So I am torn between a CS300 or CS300XS.  The price difference would be about $1k (2300 shipped vs 3200).  Since they both seem to come with the Sovtek tubes now, would I be better off going with the CS300 and spending the difference on tubes?
   
  By chance does anyone know what a 120v CS300 would cost new, is the price ~$1k less than the 3500 a new 120v CS300XS seems to cost?


----------



## Skylab

A new 120V CS300 is $2,995 in the USA.  In my comparison of the 120V CS300 and the 100V CS300X via a step-down transformer, I slightly preferred the 100V CS300X, but only slightly.  They amps are very similar.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

I see, I will probably just go for the 100v CS300 then I suppose.  I can't really imagine it's worth $600 to avoid the step-down transformer but who knows...
   
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## MuppetFace

After spending time with the WA22 I realized I was definitely a tube amp kind-of-girl.
   
  With that in mind, I'll be getting a CS300XS soon hopefully! I've been working with an importer and he ordered one for me. Now I just have to find reasonably priced tube replacements...


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, Muppet!  I think you'll like it.  I know I do - it's the best sound I ever hear from headphones.  It's absolutely terrific with the Edition 8, BTW


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


muppetface said:


> After spending time with the WA22 I realized I was definitely a tube amp kind-of-girl.
> 
> With that in mind, I'll be getting a CS300XS soon hopefully! I've been working with an importer and he ordered one for me. Now I just have to find reasonably priced tube replacements...


 

 Welcome to tube-amp world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  and tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Glad you like them.


----------



## Clayton SF

MuppetFace--I'm sure you'll love your new Leben as much as I love mine. Welcome aboard! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand that they're built to order. I had to wait about 6 weeks for mine to be built. But it was well worth the wait.


----------



## shabta

Congrats Muppetface. Since you have all the cool headphones it will be great to hear which you find have the best synergy with the Leben.


----------



## shabta

So I have been thinking to try tuberolling with the Leben to see the effect that different tubes have on the sound. Since the amp is self biasing, I am wondering how important it is to get a matched quad or will 2 sets of matched pairs be enough? Any thoughts?


----------



## Double F

You will love the Leben.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope the wait is not too long. 
   
  Not sure about needing a matched quad.  I have tried mine with 2 matched pairs and could not detect any change besides the actual tube tone. 
   
  Currently looking for a quad of 7189 power tubes.  Heard they kick the Leben up a notch!


----------



## Anders

CS300 is a push-pull amplifier and the power tubes works in tandem and should ideally be identical. So power tubes should be matched at least as pairs. Matched pairs is enough although there could be a channel imbalance (different output and volume) if the pairs deviate much. For similar reasons it is not a disadvantage if input tubes are close to each other.
   
  Unfortunately, the quality of matching varies much between vendors. It takes time, equipment is required and you need a large set of tubes to be able to match properly. The tube also changes during the first days of operation and some burn-in before matching is necessary for precise matching. Some match on more than one parameter after some burn-in while others seem to only match on a single parameter without burn-in. Worst case may be that someone states that they are matched while the only "matching" is that they come from the same batch.


----------



## godog

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats, Muppet!  I think you'll like it.  I know I do - it's the best sound I ever hear from headphones.  It's absolutely terrific with the Edition 8, BTW


 


  the Leben is definitely gorgeous


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





shabta said:


> So I have been thinking to try tuberolling with the Leben to see the effect that different tubes have on the sound. Since the amp is self biasing, I am wondering how important it is to get a matched quad or will 2 sets of matched pairs be enough? Any thoughts?


 

 Technically two matched pairs will be fine.  But - happily - I have found the Leben incredibly responsive to great tubes.  I don't know why, exactly - other than it has a great circuit beautifully executed with fine parts, topped off with some of the best transformers in the world.  (Don't forget that with a tube amp, you're listening to the transformers as much as the tubes, and whereas modern tubes have gotten worse, modern transformers have gotten way better.)
   
  So I put my best tubes into my Leben - a matched quad of EL84s and a matched pair of 12AX7s, all 1957 BugleBoys made in Holland.  (I like to think they were made on July 6th, 1957, the day that John Lennon met Paul McCartney.)  And the result is just fantastic - easily the best sound I have heard from headphones, ever.  Heaven.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





godog said:


> the Leben is definitely gorgeous


 

 And it _smells_ gorgeous, too.  Don't know if it's the varnish on the wood cheeks or the varnish on the transformers, but it's like aromatherapy.


----------



## Clayton SF

The Leben aromatherapy experience was the first spell that the Leben brought me under. Even through it's protective plastic covering. It was almost like a new-car smell only better. The second spell was the sound.... yes!


----------



## Skylab

LOL - but you guys are totally right! Best smelling amp ever


----------



## MrSpenkelink

What a beautiful looking amp. I wish I never saw it. I have a few queries, although I think the first one has already been addressed by Skylab a few pages back.
   
  I was under the impression that a dedicated headphone amplifier is required to get the best out of your headphones. The Leben is an integrated amplier with a headphone output. It appears to have the power but, does it have the finesse to drive headphones with different impedance ratings?
   
  The manufacturer advises that it is most suited to headphones with an impedance rating of between 40 and 50 ohms. It has ample power so it should be a good match for the relatively low impedance but power hungry LCD-2 and HE-6 orthodynamic phones. But is it really suitable for the high impedance HD800 and T1? And how does it fair with the low impedance and efficient audio-technica's and Grado's? I'm particularly interested in how it pairs with the W5000.
   
  Until this amp caught my eye, I was considering the Yamomoto HA-02 and Woo WA6. I'm drawn to the idiosyncratic design of the HA-02 and level of craftmanship. I think it should work well with the phones that I currently have. It is designed with audio-technica's in mind. However, Mr Yamamoto has advised that driving a high impedance phone is not its strength, and I doubt that it would be able to drive either of the new orthos sufficiently. Jack Woo advises that the WA6 would drive both low and high impedance phones well, but not the new orthos. He recommends the WA6-SE for those.
   
  Cost is a factor for me, and both the Woo WA6 and WA6-SE are cheaper than the HA-02 and cost considerably less than the Leben. A Woo would probably be the most practical choice for what I have now and the foreseeable future. But this hobby isn't about practicalities and the Leben is desirable, although it costs much more than I was considering paying.
   
  From what I've been reading here, the Leben isn't an overly "tubey" or "syrupy" sounding amp, and that appeals. I was wondering if anyone here has both the Leben and a Woo WA6 or WA6 SE and how they compare? Do Woo amps also take a similar "neutral" approach to tube amplification?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





mrspenkelink said:


> I was under the impression that a dedicated headphone amplifier is required to get the best out of your headphones. The Leben is an integrated amplier with a headphone output. It appears to have the power but, does it have the finesse to drive headphones with different impedance ratings?
> 
> The manufacturer advises that it is most suited to headphones with an impedance rating of between 40 and 50 ohms. It has ample power so it should be a good match for the relatively low impedance but power hungry LCD-2 and HE-6 orthodynamic phones. But is it really suitable for the high impedance HD800 and T1?


 

 My Leben is beyond fabulous with my HD800s.  I can't see any real reason for the 40 - 50 ohm caveat, and IME it will drive anything without the slightest worry.  But you're right - it's expensive.  Doubly so, in fact, because it responds so well to great tubes you might want to scour the world for your NOS fantasies.  A worthy alternative might be the Luxman SQ-N100.  I have one which I use with current production tubes - scouring the world for NOS is ultimately self-defeating - and it works great with New Sensor's premium items, whatever they might be labeled.  The Luxman is cheaper to start with, as well.  My $0.02: integrated amps (with jacks tapped straight from the main outputs) are the best HP amps of all.


----------



## MikeLa

It's very suitable for high impedance headphones like the HD800 and T1.  I listen to my T1's at 9 to 10 o'clock and I listen fairly loud (85dB peaks) and there is a lot of headroom left.  I can't speak to lower impedance cans.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MrSpenkelink* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I was under the impression that a dedicated headphone amplifier is required to get the best out of your headphones. The Leben is an integrated amplier with a headphone output. It appears to have the power but, does it have the finesse to drive headphones with different impedance ratings?
> 
> The manufacturer advises that it is most suited to headphones with an impedance rating of between 40 and 50 ohms. It has ample power so it should be a good match for the relatively low impedance but power hungry LCD-2 and HE-6 orthodynamic phones. But is it really suitable for the high impedance HD800 and T1? And how does it fair with the low impedance and efficient audio-technica's and Grado's? I'm particularly interested in how it pairs with the W5000.


 

 To my ear, it is the best sounding amp I ever heard to drive my HD650 (also 300 ohms like the HD800).  Fast, dynamic, lean, clean, very revealing in terms of bringing out ambience sounds like breath of the singer, guitar pluck.  Just my 1 cents.


----------



## Skylab

I think thw Woo WA6 is the "little amp that could", and I recommend it a lot, and really enjoy listening to it.  But the Leben is far, far better.
   
  And the Leben's headphone out is wound from the same custom output transformers that the speaker taps are off of - this is what makes it so special.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was actually going to start a thread asking for comparisons between the Luxman SQ-N100 and the Leben CS300.  From what I can tell they both go for around $3k if you go through a US importer.  Can you compare the two amps with headphones (I would be using LCD-2's, HD 650 and 800's, and Denon 7000's).  I like the idea of tone controls on the Luxman for some of the CD's that are not mastered too well in my collection.  Have you tried them both with speakers?  Thanks for any input.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> I was actually going to start a thread asking for comparisons between the Luxman SQ-N100 and the Leben CS300.  From what I can tell they both go for around $3k if you go through a US importer.  Can you compare the two amps with headphones (I would be using LCD-2's, HD 650 and 800's, and Denon 7000's).  I like the idea of tone controls on the Luxman for some of the CD's that are not mastered too well in my collection.  Have you tried them both with speakers?  Thanks for any input.


 
   
  I haven't tried either with speakers - they're in a headphone-only city apartment.  The Luxman goes for $3000 and the Leben is about $3500 now.  The Leben has a +3db or +5db bass boost control and the Luxman has conventional tone controls.  The Luxman's bass lift and cut is unsubtle, but the treble control is fine.  I have used all the phones you mention, but prefer the HD800s by a wide margin.  The Luxman is terrific, but the Leben is far better.  It has noticeably better separation and stability, and a terrific sense of space and soundstaging.  There can be a singer wailing away and a guitar thrashing, but you can still "walk through" the image and pay close attention to a quiet high-hat figure.  Plus, for me anyway, there's a kind of X factor ...  I don't want to get all audiophile about it, but the best way to sum it up is like this: with all my previous gear, if I heard something I didn't like, my first reaction was, "OK, I better try a new cable or a new tube or something."  With the Leben and the HD800s, I think, "Wow, the engineer really screwed that up."  It's a kind of honesty and reassurance.  Does that make sense?


----------



## RedBull

"_It has noticeably better separation and stability, and a terrific sense of space and soundstaging.  There can be a singer wailing away and a guitar thrashing, but you can still "walk through" the image and pay close attention to a quiet high-hat figure._"
   
  Well said InnerSpace, well said, I enjoyed reading your comment above


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Absolutely.  Thanks for your impressions.


----------



## MuppetFace

The price on the CS-300XS is definitely going to be closer to the $4000 mark than $3000. I also got word from the importer I purchased mine from that the price on the XS would be going up very soon.
   
  As for the Luxman, I'd seriously consider looking in to the P-1u as well. No, it's not a tube amp. It is however one of the finest solid state amps ever made. Its sound is actually more effortless, liquid and organic than a lot of tube amps I've heard.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> Quote:
> I was actually going to start a thread asking for comparisons between the Luxman SQ-N100 and the Leben CS300.  From what I can tell they both go for around $3k if you go through a US importer.


 

 it can be had be had for $2145 from Joynetcafe thru ebay:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/LUXMAN-SQ-N100-Vacuum-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-/390260058784?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5add4feaa0
   
  here's a review from 6moons:  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/luxman3/100.html


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Can still get the 300xs on ebay for ~3200 but the 100v version not 120... cs300 on price japan for about 2150 shipped but also the 100v version.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I'd seriously consider looking in to the P-1u as well. No, it's not a tube amp. It is however one of the finest solid state amps ever made. Its sound is actually more effortless, liquid and organic than a lot of tube amps I've heard.


 
   
  I agree.  The only things I have against mine are a) it's senselessly huge - the full 17" wide and nearly as deep; and b) it's underpowered.  After a point you get the feeling it's gamely putting out the millivolts, but the milliamps aren't necessarily coming with them anymore.  If it had a sense of more power in reserve, and was a little smaller, and was bumped up the last few points in ease and SQ, it could be anyone's only amp forever.  Oh wait ... if it had a sense of more power in reserve, and was a little smaller, and was bumped up the last few points in ease and SQ ... it would be a Leben 300.


----------



## arnesto

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> The price on the CS-300XS is definitely going to be closer to the $4000 mark than $3000. I also got word from the importer I purchased mine from that the price on the XS would be going up very soon.
> 
> As for the Luxman, I'd seriously consider looking in to the P-1u as well. No, it's not a tube amp. It is however one of the finest solid state amps ever made. Its sound is actually more effortless, liquid and organic than a lot of tube amps I've heard.


 

 Hi MuppetFace, on an earlier post, you mentioned you wanted to buy a tubed amp after listening to the WooAudio22. Why did you decide to buy a Leben if you liked the WooAudio22?
   
  I'm asking because I am curious how those 2 amps compare to each other.


----------



## arnesto

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are you comparing the Leben to the Luxman P-1u or the N100? Because from your earlier post, you were comparing it to the SQ-N100, but the quote you have on this post has the P-1u.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In this case I'm comparing the P-1u.  (Yes, I have way too many amps.)  The P-1u sounds very tubey, like Muppet said.  More tubey than the CS300XS or the SQ-N100, actually.  Like I said, a terrific amp, but ugly because it's so big, and marginal on power and drive.  Both the Leben and the tube Luxman just hit hard, effortlessly, joyously, in those important midrange-to-mid-bass registers, and the P-1u sounds a bit limp in comparison.  My $0.02, anyway.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> In this case I'm comparing the P-1u.  (Yes, I have way too many amps.)  The P-1u sounds very tubey, like Muppet said.  More tubey than the CS300XS or the SQ-N100, actually.  Like I said, a terrific amp, but ugly because it's so big, and marginal on power and drive.  Both the Leben and the tube Luxman just hit hard, effortlessly, joyously, in those important midrange-to-mid-bass registers, and the P-1u sounds a bit limp in comparison.  My $0.02, anyway.


 

 IS, your profile is blank so i can't tell what gear you have (it's useful to fill it out). could you compare the leben and n100, and whatever else may be interesting or relevant? what cans and source are you using? thanks.


----------



## arnesto

Cool, it sounds like the Leben is the king of the amps!
   
  Innerspace, thanks for the comparison, can you buy the WooAudio22 and do a comparison
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?
   
  It's not going to hurt to have one more amp.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





davederek said:


> IS, your profile is blank so i can't tell what gear you have (it's useful to fill it out). could you compare the leben and n100, and whatever else may be interesting or relevant? what cans and source are you using? thanks.


 

 Apologies.  I'll fill out the profile when I figure out how.  I'm all CD based.  Right now I use a Meridian G08.2, and HD800s.  The G08.2 was an easy pick after audition.  So were the HD800s, although I bought the LCD-2s, Denon AH-D7000, and Beyer T1s also, just for fun.  But I strongly favor the HD800s.  As far as amps go, with the exception of a long excursion to the Headroom Blockhead, which I still like and use elsewhere, I have always gravitated toward low- to medium-powered integrated amps for headphones.  I keep an eye out for what's available, which led me to the Leben and the Luxman SQ-N100.  I use the Leben with 1950s Amperexes and the SQ-N100 mostly as a test-bed for trying current production tubes.  (I enjoy all the NOS hoopla as much as the next guy, but rationally ... one day they'll all be gone, and some knowledge of the new market will help.)  But I have tried both amps apples-to-apples, i.e. all new or all NOS, side-to-side.  (And I should report a glitch with the Luxman, which was that one set of NOS tubes that worked fine in the Leben produced fearful microphony and RFI in the Luxman - don't know why.  Possibly a serious weakness somewhere?)  But apples-to-apples when all was working well - the Luxman was extended at both ends, energetic, vibrant, and powerful ... not at all tube-like in the conventional SET sense, but not remotely hard or harsh either.  It's a really, really good amp, and I'm glad I have it.  But ... the Leben is better.  It's possibly not as extended in the very low bass or the very high treble, but what it does in between is truly terrific.  It has all the virtues you could want - muscular, powerful, sweet, etc - plus tremendous ... and I mean uncanny ... separation and stability in terms of musical strands.  What a techie would call low intermodulation distortion, I guess.  I think I said upthread that there can be a singer belting it out and a guitar thrashing away, but you can literally (well, not literally _literally_, but as good as) tiptoe through the sonic image and listen to a quiet high-hat figure or the bass player's pull-offs - or anything - and I mean you can walk right up to the guy, walk around him, really check it out.  You can spend time there.  It sounds like a gimmick thing, maybe, but it isn't ... the whole structure and foundation of the music is so solid, so immoveable, that it creates total relaxation in the listener.  I feel it's a huge step forward - for me, anyway - and I couldn't live without it now.
   
  I suppose it's down to the transformers, really.  The Leben uses custom pieces, and the Luxman (yes, I pulled it apart) uses what seem to be more generic items.  My tube amp tips (and I bought my first in 1969) are: point-to-point is better than circuit boards; pretty much any classic circuit can be made to work well; and given all of that, then 99% of what you hear is down to the output transformers.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My philosophy is a bit different than some members here. I'm not really after a single rig that is as good as I can possibly make it, what I've seen described as a vertical approach. I'm more of a collector who likes to hear different sounds and combinations, so I tend to buy multiple headphones and multiple amps, the so-called horizontal approach.
   
  I'm actually more into amplifiers now than I am headphones. I have pretty much all the headphones I need (or so I tell myself in the hopes that I'll actually believe it). Now I'm interested in collecting amplifiers to bring out the best in my collection, like the Yamamoto HA-02 which is legendary for its synergy with Audio-Technica woodies. I justify owning multiple amplifiers for this reason, plus I also happen to view amplifiers (and headphones) as an artform. Seeing the work of Moth Audio and Shindo Labs convinced me of this. I'm collecting art just as much as audio-equipment.
   
  I'm sure when I've purchased my fair share of amps, I'll move on to sources instead of saving my money responsibly.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> My philosophy is a bit different than some members here. I'm not really after a single rig that is as good as I can possibly make it, what I've seen described as a vertical approach. I'm more of a collector who likes to hear different sounds and combinations, so I tend to buy multiple headphones and multiple amps, the so-called horizontal approach.


 

  Well said.  I am the same way.  I like to have multiple rigs with different sounds/signatures/strengths.  Not really practical with speaker rigs, so headphone rigs afford me that chance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  x2. Yep. I'm that sort of person as well. Although I did just buy a new set of speakers. My first "good" set since I was mainly a headphone kind of guy, but now I am spending more time listening to speakers because I like to move around my listening room (my living room). From the sweet spot, to the not-so-sweet spot, then near the bay windows to read by the natural light and then back to the sweet spot. There's something to say about speakers as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right now my Leben is in storage and I am now listening to my PrimaLuna ProLogue 3/5. Next it will be the Zana Deux SE/PL3, then the PL DiaLogue 2. Mind you, not all in one day. I switch every month. Eek--I cannot be stopped.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I like to have multiple rigs with different sounds/signatures/strengths.


 
  you mean like a darth in the bathroom, a darth in the kitchen, two more in the office and another in the bedroom.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





davederek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nah...that would have been me 3 years ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Now it's a planar in the bathroom, a planar in the kitchen, and two more in the office


----------



## Peece

I'm sure the very slight difference you're hearing is coming from the step down transformer. I bought my Leben (CS-300XS) in part because of the very high quality transformers. I learned in my DIY trials in the past that the power transformer is nearly as important as the output transformers in determining sound quality. I can't imagine using a step down transformer in front of the beautiful Leben power transformer and not expecting a moderate if not severe loss of quality. I've never seen a high quality step down transformer at any price nor would I trust a generic step down will not harm the carefully voiced and designed Leben power transformers. Seems silly to save a few hundred dollars and not get what you paid for. 
  I found when I compared the CS-300 to the CS-300XS the difference was rather large. More than the price differential. Maybe a 30% improvement across the board. Better texture, more resoltuion, better dynamics and less grain. The CS-300 was excellent but no contest to the CS-300XS. My guess is you just aren't hearing your CS-300XS with the step down transformer.
   
  Peece


----------



## Peece

BTW- I should introduce myself, I'm new here. I use Grado PS1000's and Senn HD800's with my Leben CS-300XS. Been a long time headphone listener and recently stepped into the high end. I also have a pair of Harbeth's I use during the daytime, headphones at night. I don't generally browse forums but came across the Leben thread. Maybe I'll stick around.


----------



## dminches

In about 5 weeks I will be able to share my own CS-300XS experience.  I put my order in today with the NYC Leben dealer.  I am looking forward to eliminating the amp, preamp and headphone amp on my office desk with the Leben and hearing a significant fidelity improvement to boot.  My LCD-2s arrive tomorrow show I should be very familiar with them with my current set up (CI Audio VHP2/VAC1) and then hear the difference with the Leben.


----------



## Skylab

Welcome to head-fi, nice to have another Leben owner on the board. In your determining the CS300XS was 30% better than the CS300, did you own both? Or have both in your home at the same time? Or you made this determination duering a store audition? Were the tubes the same in both? Just curious. I too felt the CS300X was better, but not by 30%.

I'm still unconvinced that using a transformer to reduce wall voltage by 20%, which is trivial, will have any impact whatsoever. The AC you get from the wall has transformers all throughout the distribution chain.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





dminches said:


> In about 5 weeks I will be able to share my own CS-300XS experience.  I put my order in today with the NYC Leben dealer.


 

 5 wks? sheesh! which dealer is this (and why doesn't he stock them)?


----------



## dminches

In Living Stereo.  He said that the demand has been very high for the CS-300X for the past 4 months and Leben cannot make them fast enough to keep up.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> In about 5 weeks I will be able to share my own CS-300XS experience.  I put my order in today with the NYC Leben dealer.  I am looking forward to eliminating the amp, preamp and headphone amp on my office desk with the Leben and hearing a significant fidelity improvement to boot.  My LCD-2s arrive tomorrow show I should be very familiar with them with my current set up (CI Audio VHP2/VAC1) and then hear the difference with the Leben.


 


  Congrats, buddy!  I am sure you are going to love it.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





davederek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I ordered my Leben on November 1st, and it still hasn't come in yet. In the case of the CS-300XS, with retailers often times you have to get them built to order in Japan. Most places that actually stocked the XS on hand (like PriceJapan) are now out of stock.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I ordered my Leben on November 1st, and it still hasn't come in yet. In the case of the CS-300XS, with retailers often times you have to get them built to order in Japan. Most places that actually stocked the XS on hand (like PriceJapan) are now out of stock.


 

 From whom did you order it?  Did they estimate 4-5 weeks too?


----------



## Peece

Hi Skylab,
   
  Both had Sovteks and were bone stock. The CS-300 I had purchased and a few months later, after my CS-300 burned in fully, I asked to borrow the CS-300XS from my dealer for an in home comparison. They let me keep it for a few days when the store was going to be closed for a few days. I was not expecting the across the board improvement. The CS-300 is no slouch but for another $500 or so its very worthwhile to step up to the CS-300XS. The differences are not subtle technically or sonically. The output transformers of the XS are wider bandwidth, output power is raised a few watts and the power supply is more sophisitcated along with using better parts. I had the cover off of both when I had them side by side and I did find some nice upgrades. Even if it was just the better output transformers, it would be worthwhile for the small differential. That being said, I'd buy a 120V CS-300 before a 100V CS-300XS for a few reasons. First is the sonic penalty of step down transformers (yes, it was quite noticeable in my DIY experiments) and secondly is the lack of support from Leben or any dealers. I had asked about this before placing my order and it seems Leben is very strict about the no gray market policy. They will not repair 100V units sold outside Japan. I was told they caught Price Japan's supplier recently and now have all serial numbers recorded... I would think this is a big problem for those that purchased from PriceJapan. For the $500+/- savings of buying gray market, the loss of sonics from a step down transformer and the lack of any support or warranty seems really quite foolish. While I don't like to pay a mark up, with Leben its relatively quite a small difference for the insurance of supprt and parts along with keeping my local dealer open for business. 
  I waited 4 weeks for my CS-300XS when I ordered it six months ago. Well worth the wait and my dealer gave me a very good trade in of my CS-300. 
   
  Anyone else using HD800's with their CS-300 or CS-300XS? I just got them recently and I'm really loving the combo. I was always a Grado guy since I'm big into opera and voices are amazing with the Grado's. I think I'm liking the Sennheisers almost as much for vocals and it seems better with other types of music. Jury is still out, I'm breaking them in and haven't had enough time yet. 
   
  Peece


----------



## Skylab

I do think people have to make up their own minds about the relative risk/reward of saving money versus getting support.  For me this was a complete non-issue and I bought BOTH of my units used - the 100V CS300X from another head-fier who lives in Japan, and the 120V CS300 from Audiogon.  I have bought a LOT of used audio gear over the years, saved a ton of money in the process, and rarely had an issue, and of course there is a very robust used market here on head-fi.  So your points about service are valid for some, but completely irrelevant to me, for what that's worth.
   
  Regarding the step-down transformers, let me describe the way I determined the effect is meaningless, and then I would like to hear about your "DIY Experiments" in which you decide they are meaningful.
   
  The step-down transformer I have allows you to chose the input voltage and output voltage independently.  Therefore, one can choose 120V in and 120V out, and still be running through the transformer.  In this way, I was able to compare several 120V compnents (including my 120V CS300) running through the transformer, and then plugged straight into the wall.  This meant the transformer was the only variable.  I heard absolutely no detectable difference.
   
  Since you are new here and have no history on head-fi, and came in this thread with a post challenging my findings about the two Leben amps, and are also sounding like you are reading off the script of propaganda that I have heard from the US Importer of why it's so critical to buy locally, I hope you don't take offense in my engaging you in a little further dialog regarding your post.  For those buying new, and not used, the service issue is very real, IMO.  On the other hand, the step-down  transformer issue, IMO, is nonsense.


----------



## Peece

Well put Skylab but I still do not agree on the transformer issue. As for the transformer- I'm not sure what to say about not being able to hear the difference with and without it. Whenever I've used an autoformer, transformer or even a simple power strip in the A/C path, I have heard substantial differences. Heck, even power cords and A/C outlets make a huge difference, which I think most would agree. How can something as "invasive" as a transformer in front of a transformer have "absolutely no detectable difference." I'm not trying to argue or doubt your personal findings, I just know I hear huge differences that I might even call make or break. I've built my own tube amps and pre-amps and trying power transformers of the same spec, from multiple vendors, had across the board impact on the sonics. From good to bad and every where in between. Thats my experience for what its worth. I know transformer guys will also tell you that the variation in sonics from one power transformer to another is not subtle- even between two high quality, well made units. A step down transformer or autoformer is not exempt from these differences in my opinion.YMMV as they say. 
   
  I have communicated extensively with my dealer, he is very supportive and we speak often about business. So you can say I have an inside line on Leben info. Reading from a script- no, I just like to believe I'm well informed


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

So what you are telling me is the power company must splurge and put in only the best audiophile transformers money can buy before every home for there to not even be a product on the market that could possibly match them :O


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





peece said:


> Well put Skylab but I still do not agree on the transformer issue. As for the transformer- I'm not sure what to say about not being able to hear the difference with and without it. Whenever I've used an autoformer, transformer or even a simple power strip in the A/C path, I have heard substantial differences. Heck, even power cords and A/C outlets make a huge difference, which I think most would agree. How can something as "invasive" as a transformer in front of a transformer have "absolutely no detectable difference." I'm not trying to argue or doubt your personal findings, I just know I hear huge differences that I might even call make or break. I've built my own tube amps and pre-amps and trying power transformers of the same spec, from multiple vendors, had across the board impact on the sonics. From good to bad and every where in between. Thats my experience for what its worth. I know transformer guys will also tell you that the variation in sonics from one power transformer to another is not subtle- even between two high quality, well made units. A step down transformer or autoformer is not exempt from these differences in my opinion.YMMV as they say.
> 
> I have communicated extensively with my dealer, he is very supportive and we speak often about business. So you can say I have an inside line on Leben info. Reading from a script- no, I just like to believe I'm well informed


 

 OK, that helps very much to frame the discussion, and will help put both our comments in a perspective that will allow others who read this thread to interpret them.  You find that AC Cords and even power outlets/sockets can make a "huge difference".  That's cool.  I do not.  So that could easily account for the difference in our findings.  I find the differences made by power cords to be somewhere between zero to extremely subtle.  And of course, as you said, YMMV


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 let's blame Skylab for this dilemma. the first person on head-fi that i was aware of using the Leben was Gu Sensei. if i'm not mistaken Rob acquired one from him and you know what happens once he gets something and he likes it. bam! - it's all over head-fi, and what ensues is a large demand for the product. in this case apparently exceeding their capacity to produce them. it's his fault that now you (seemingly) have an interminable wait for one!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





davederek said:


> let's blame Skylab for this dilemma. the first person on head-fi that i was aware of using the Leben was Gu Sensei. if i'm not mistaken Rob acquired one from him and you know what happens once he gets something and he likes it. bam! - it's all over head-fi, and what ensues is a large demand for the product. in this case apparently exceeding their capacity to produce them. it's his fault that now you (seemingly) have an interminable wait for one!


 

 I think you are massively overestimating my influence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I know you were joking...)
   
  The Leben got some GREAT reviews in the mainstream audio press (especially the one in TAS) that have made a huge difference for them I'm sure.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think you are massively overestimating my influence
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  amongst h-fers i bet you have more influence than tas.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  just pimping for ya, Rob. that way mebbe some more manufacturers will be sure to lay some cool products on you for you to play with & review!


----------



## Anders

I agree with Peece that a transformer can be important. I have not tried this with Leben but with Stax. I first tested a Stax amp with a step-down transformer when it arrived to check that it was working. That amp could be switched internally for 230V and sound quality improved when connected directly to the wall. The step-down transformer was of rather good quality and a few times more powerful than required by the amp. I think the impedance and current flow conditions can be negatively affected by a transformer. On the other hand a transformer also works as an isolation transformer and can clean the power so there can also be a positive effect.
   
  Peece, did you compare the two Leben models with speakers or headphones? Btw, I also like the Leben with HD800.


----------



## shabta

I am an HD800/Leben 300X lovin' guy.
   
  However, at the risk of rat holing this thread any further, can one of the "step down transformers make a huge negative impact on the sound" explain in electronically sensible terms why that is so much worse than the transformers that lead up to the socket...
   
   
  ps. Skylab, I think with as thinly distributed amp as the leben, your review might actually have added 10-15 % to the sales which would be enough to make it become "rare." Your review certainly had a lot to do with my decision to investigate this amp. Thanks!


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





shabta said:


> ... Skylab, I think with as thinly distributed amp as the leben, your review might actually have added 10-15 % to the sales which would be enough to make it become "rare."


 

 That's possible ... I got mine because I would see it in In Living Stereo's store window every time I walked home after dropping in at my daughter's place on West 4th.  One day the owner was on the stoop, and we got chatting, and he recommended it, and I took it home, tried it, and bought it.  It was replaced in the window with another ... but then stock seemed to dry up.  I haven't seen one there for about six months now, which would tie in perfectly with your theory.
   
  PS It was ILS's Shindos that used to catch my eye, really, and I didn't think much of the Leben visually.  Still not sure about it ... totally love its sound, even love its smell, but only kinda sorta like its looks.  You?


----------



## MuppetFace

Personally, I've never found a step-down transformer to lessen the sound quality of my imported Stax amps. The quality of the power we get from the walls here isn't the greatest to begin with, either.
   
  Skylab's impressions of the Leben were indeed part of why I ordered one, albeit a small part. My amp-obsessed brother (his amp collection is like my headphones collection) is primarily responsible for introducing me to the world of high-end Japanese amp designers: Leben Hi-Fi, Shindo Labs, Yamamoto Sound Craft, and Luxman.
   
  In particular seeing the designs of Shindo Labs changed my view of amplifiers forever. I realized they weren't just equipment, but functional art. That day my amp obsession was born. 
   
  Talking to both the owner of Tone Imports and a local importer, I realized the Leben CS-300XS was the best way to go given my needs. Skylap's impressions as a fellow headphone enthusiast further sealed the deal.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> PS It was ILS's Shindos that used to catch my eye, really, and I didn't think much of the Leben visually.  Still not sure about it ... totally love its sound, even love its smell, but only kinda sorta like its looks.  You?


 


  Hah! I didn't even see this post when I posted mine right bellow it. I think it was posted right as I was typing mine out. Glad to see more Shindo love inspiring people.
   
  FWIW, I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your posts InnerSpace. I think our tastes are similar is many ways.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





anders said:


> I agree with Peece that a transformer can be important. I have not tried this with Leben but with Stax. I first tested a Stax amp with a step-down transformer when it arrived to check that it was working. That amp could be switched internally for 230V and sound quality improved when connected directly to the wall. The step-down transformer was of rather good quality and a few times more powerful than required by the amp. I think the impedance and current flow conditions can be negatively affected by a transformer. On the other hand a transformer also works as an isolation transformer and can clean the power so there can also be a positive effect.


 
   
  Two things here - one, I agree that a step-down transformer can actually have a POSITIVE impact, in that it can indeed serve to isolate noise on the AC line.  Second, it's a lot easier for a transformer to step down 120V to 100V than it is 230V to 120 or 100...


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I think our tastes are similar is many ways.


 
   
  Oh God, that came across as adding strength to the little voice on my shoulder saying, "Go on, go on, buy a Shindo ... "


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Two things here - one, I agree that a step-down transformer can actually have a POSITIVE impact, in that it can indeed serve to isolate noise on the AC line.  Second, it's a lot easier for a transformer to step down 120V to 100V than it is 230V to 120 or 100...


 

 All I can contribute is - I worked in the UK for a time, and assembled a fine system there, which I shipped back to the US on my return.  A guy in the UK built isolation transformers with a good reputation, and as I was leaving I asked him for a step-UP version, i.e. 110-to-230, so I could keep on using that system, and I would say it had absolutely no negative impact whatsoever.  Obviously I didn't AB it and was relying on memory, but SQ means a lot to me, and I'm very critical, and I was absolutely ready to be disappointed, but I wasn't.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 good, then you can bring some more goodies from your collection to the next ny area meet!


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Second, it's a lot easier for a transformer to step down 120V to 100V than it is 230V to 120 or 100...


 


  Yup. Which is why, living in france I got a local one instead of importing it from Japan. Actually it worked out really well, I got a demo with less than 150 hours on it and Mullards instead of Sovtek for less than the import price. And an EU warrantee.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shabta said:


> ps. Skylab, I think with as thinly distributed amp as the leben, your review might actually have added 10-15 % to the sales which would be enough to make it become "rare." Your review certainly had a lot to do with my decision to investigate this amp. Thanks!


 

 Yep, Skylab tipped the scale for me and I ended up buying a Leben CS300XS--and I am a better (Head-Fi) person for it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only wish that I could also have his acute sense of hearing (as well as his _most excellent _listening room).


----------



## Duckman

Skylab's enthusiasm had me interested too, but actually hearing its bigger brother (CS600) last week tipped the scales for me.
   
  Hoping for an early January delivery.


----------



## Skylab

I would love to hear a CS600 one day. Congrats, Duckman.


----------



## Duckman

I'm hoping the headphone sound is just as good on the 300XS. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Skylab

I will look forward to hearing your thoughts. Or maybe I should be afraid of hearing them


----------



## MuppetFace

The Leben club here on head-fi seems to be growing quite a bit as of late. Hopefully mine will be in this month.
   
  @ InnerSpace: You should definitely get a Shindo at some point! Major audiophile "cred" there.


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I will look forward to hearing your thoughts. Or maybe I should be afraid of hearing them


 

 I am definitely afraid of hearing them,,,


----------



## Peece

Hello Anders,
   
  Seems we are on the same page. To me, the differences between power transformers let alone step down transformers is rather large. I don't claim to have super hearing but quite frankly I find it hard to believe that a power cord or power conditioner in a high quality resolving system can make little or no difference. I'm not super tweaky and don't obsess over minor changes, I'm more of a set and forget kinda guy. When I do get into a tweak mode, my wife often can here these changes from the next room. Granted, not every change is an improvement, actually I find I dislike most of the aftermarket cords and conditioners. They all make a substantial change to the presentation, just not always for the better. A power amp is a modulating power supply, if we change its source impedance, we change its output. Better connections at the wall outlet result in lower impedance source and then the amp does more of what it was designed to do. 
   
  As to the question about the power company brought up earlier- the point is moot, we have no control outside of our walls. If we think this way, then we all should purchase Yorx gear and be done with it. We get what we get and then make the best of it with what we can control. I'd also assume that the huge transformer on the power pole is quite a bit beefier and lower in output impedance than the usual junky step down transformers we find for home use. Most of which are mass produced in China and Taiwan with no sonics in mind, just electric for houseghold appliances. Maybe, just maybe, if we had a really super well built transformer that happened to gel with a 100V amp, it might be an advantage with additional filtering. A big maybe and a high quality custom transformer not only takes up additional space but the cost negates any savings of a gray market amp. The chances of finding one that happens to work as an advantage rather than a disadvantage is a difficult quest. So I'll stick to my guns here- 120V for 120V, 100V for 100V and 220V for 220V.
   
  I also wanted to mention the 100V into 120V idea- a transformer does just that- transforms one voltage to another. If we increase the primary by 20%(!), the transformation will also be boosted by the same 20% at the other end. Lets assume 120V in = 300V out to the tubes and cicuit. If we use a 100V unit with the same 300V output and plug it into a 120V outlet we have 360V on our tubes and circuit!! This is huge and will destroy the entire amp rather quickly. Tubes will be highly overbiased and fail much more quickly, capacitor limits are pushed, transformer is out of its operating range and running hotter, resistors are closer to their maximums, output transformers also out of operating range and running hotter... not a very good idea, even for a few minutes. I was rather shocked when I saw a post this AM while searching for Leben discussions. It seems a few guys suggesting to do this. Very ignorant suggestions!
   
  I'm going to spend some quality time with my HD800's this weekend, they keep improving in ways that I like. Great combo with the Leben.
   
   
  Peece


----------



## Skylab

I haven't seen anyone on head-fi recommending to plug a 100V amp directly into a 120V socket. That would indeed be very foolish.

As for power cords, I don't even use exotic power cords in the context of my $30,000 speaker hi-fi, so I'm not likely to in the context of a headphone rig. I've never found them to make a difference that was meaningful. 

My basic opinion is that what comes before the component's power transformer doesn't matter much, with a few exceptions. I do have a separate AC circuit to the main panel for my hifi to keep noise pollution on the line to a minimum. That will have a much larger impact that changing one power cord for another. And if AC line pollution is bad enough, then an isolation transformer can be just the ticket


----------



## godog

how does the luxman sq38u compare to cs300xs?


----------



## Skylab

godog said:


> how does the luxman sq38u compare to cs300xs?






Been wondering that myself a little lately. I thought I recalled someone saying the Leben was better for headphones, but couldn't find the reference.

Anyone compared the two directly?


----------



## godog

let me see if I can bring my cs300xs to the luxman showroom in hk to have a direct comparison


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would love to hear a CS600 one day. Congrats, Duckman.


 

 Oh, NOOO, another amp to buy again ......... 
  Please, don't review CS600 Rob


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do have a separate AC circuit to the main panel for my hifi to keep noise pollution on the line to a minimum.


 

 I was thinking too, this would probably the BEST, purist idea, but impossible, too costly for me


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





godog said:


> how does the luxman sq38u compare to cs300xs?


 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would love to hear a CS600 one day. Congrats, Duckman.


 
  just took a quick look at some prices, yikes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     at music direct the lux sq38u at $6000 is 2x the price of the lux sqn100.

   
  per 6 moons the cs300s is $3300 and the cs660p is $9500. not sure about the cs600 though.
  
  the more expensive amps are el34 based while their less expensive (but still pricey) bretheren are el84 based.
  6 moons take on the general sonic differences:
  "Luxman's own SQ-N100 is another very good can amp whose output rating for speaker drive halves just like the sticker. Its EL84s are lighter and faster than the EL34s in the SQ-38u and if you favor energy, élan and resolution over weight and a lower acoustic center, you could even prefer the smaller sibling."


----------



## MuppetFace

It's a shame that 6moons reviewer says he can't comment on how the Leben CS-300XS compares to the Luxman SQ-38U. That's the comparison I'm most interested in right now.
   
  As for the prices, yeah, imported amps are going to be really pricey stateside. I paid $3600 roughly for my CS-300XS, and I was told the price went up right after I ordered. Apparently there's a huge backorder on the CS-300XS right now.
   
  The price of $6000 for the SQ-38U is a little absurd in my opinion. It's about $4800 direct from Japan without the usual importer fees (source: Audiocubes2). Similarly the P-1u is $3000 on US importer sites, while only $2100 direct from Japan.
   
  You can get a Leben CS-600 from PriceJapan for about $4,400. The CS-660P will cost you $7,300 there as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Once again the "little" Leben has won the Diapason Gold Metal award. This can only contribute to its current backorder status:
   
Leben CS300XS Winner of Diapason Gold Metal 2010
   
  "Yoshi Hontani sent me word that the wonderful little *Leben CS300XS* vacuum tube integrated amplifier was a winner of Gold Medal for 2010 from the French magazine *Diapason**.* Here’s a little excerpt from the review: “Faithful to the look and spirit of the end of the 1960’S, this small integrated tube amplifier is full of charm with its large controls and its ‘bass boost’ (which allows us to increase the low frequency level 3 or 5 dB, for low level listening). ..."


----------



## godog

just wild guess, for hp output I guess the cs600 and the cs300xs are more or less at the same level and which are better than the sq38u by a small margin
  I will confirm this soon by directly comparing cs600 vs cs300xs and cs300xs vs sq38u in the hk distributor showrooms. They have sources worth of at least 10K USD, so I guess the amps could be fairly compared


----------



## godog

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> It's a shame that 6moons reviewer says he can't comment on how the Leben CS-300XS compares to the Luxman SQ-38U. That's the comparison I'm most interested in right now.
> 
> As for the prices, yeah, imported amps are going to be really pricey stateside. I paid $3600 roughly for my CS-300XS, and I was told the price went up right after I ordered. Apparently there's a huge backorder on the CS-300XS right now.
> 
> ...


 

  
  can't believe the cs300xs price is still going up from $3600. Fortunately I bought it several months ago at around USD 2200 before the appreciation of Yen/drop of USD


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





godog said:


> just wild guess, for hp output I guess the cs600 and the cs300xs are more or less at the same level and which are better than the sq38u by a small margin
> I will confirm this soon by directly comparing cs600 vs cs300xs and cs300xs vs sq38u in the hk distributor showrooms. They have sources worth of at least 10K USD, so I guess the amps could be fairly compared


 

 godog, why are you betting on the leben besting the lux?  if you're walking into an audition with that expectation your bias might just turn that up.


----------



## godog

thanks daveDerek, I will adjust my mind before I walk into the showrooms, and I guess I will probably be distracted by the loudspeakers and the high-end sources there lol
  don't know why, that is why I call it wild guess......perhaps the lower price tag in hk, more functions/electrical components, the use of pcb make me feel that sq38u is inferior for hp output...the cs600/cs300 is basically a power amp with attenuator, but sq38u can be used as a pre-amp
  I read from reviews that cs600 is a high power version of cs300(xs), the idea of design is derived from cs300. So I guess it is just a matter of taste(different types of tubes used), the output power of cs300 is already high enough for headphones.
   
  the so-called 'Mullard circuit' of luxman sq38u is interesting though, I will have a serious demo before I make any comment.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





godog said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Wow... $2200? That's an amazing value! Congrats.
   
  When looking at crazy price increases, my standard to measure everything against is the EAR Yoshino HP-4 which climbed from around $2000 all the way up to nearly $5500 now.


----------



## godog

yeah, japanese products are quite cheap in Hong Kong, I guess the list price of cs300xs has raised above > HKD20000. The actual price should be less than HKD20000, still way cheaper than in US. FYI, the SQ38u is just around HKD 27000 after bargaining.


----------



## SteveM324

In Srajan Ebaen's November 2009 6 Moon  review of the Luxman SQ-N100 he compares it to its bigger brother the SQ-38u and this is what he has to say,
   
  " Considering its overkill power rating in this context, that was impressive indeed. Since this is no headphone review, I won't get more detailed. Instead, I'll simply reiterate that of all the can openers - er, _amplifiers_ I've heard, the Luxman SQ-N100 which isn't even really marketed as such belongs at the very top. It's better than the equivalent output of its bigger EL34 stable mate."
   
  Earlier in that same review, he says this about the N100 in comparison to some of the other amps he has listen to:
   
  " Over statement headphones, this amp has most the color density of my EAT 300Bs but a sprightlier snappier demeanor, clearly more air and openness than the Woo, Yammy and its own SQ-38u EL34 stable mate; greater speed and incision than the Western Electric pentodes; and more linearity than the Yamamoto with its luscious midrange centricity."
   
  His statement that of all the headphone amps that he has heard that the N100 belongs at the very top is quite a praise when you consider that he owns the Woo WA5 as well as he reviewed the SQ-38u just a few months (Aug 2009) prior to his review of the N100.
   
  When you consider that the street price of the US version of the N100 (not the grey market PriceJapan price) from a authorized dealer is 2/3 the price of the $3600 Leben CS300xs, and the N100 has a very good phono stage, remote control and drives the HE6 off its speaker taps like you wouldn't believe makes it an incredible value.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## BK_856er

FYI, the current USA price for the 120V Leben CS300XS is $3,795 + tax, with 4wk lead time.
   
  BK


----------



## MuppetFace

Apparently my CS-300XS is next to be sent out in a MASSIVE backorder (according to Tone Imports). So yes, lead times will be longer than four weeks if this backlog is still as it was when I placed my order.
   
  I've been waiting six weeks thus far, and still no word on when it'll arrive. Hopefully by the end of this year. Fingers crossed!


----------



## dminches

Did Tone say over what order period the shipment would cover?  Did they contact you or did you contact them?  If I sound anxious, I am!


----------



## MuppetFace

Sorry, didn't speak to Halpern directly. I asked my local shop who is using Tone to import one for me.
   
  The forwarded e-mail from Halpern at Tone Imports simply mentioned mine was next, and that there was a huge backorder. He just said "should be coming soon" so who knows.


----------



## dminches

I just got a note from Steve at In Living Stereo and he said my CS300x should be in in the next 4-5 days.  Sounds like they upped production or the demand has dropped since I ordered it only 11 days ago.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I just got a note from Steve at In Living Stereo and he said my CS300x should be in in the next 4-5 days.  Sounds like they upped production or the demand has dropped since I ordered it only 11 days ago.


 


  Sweet!  Nice news to get - look forward to your thoughts, David.


----------



## dminches

I am more than excited.  I can't wait to pair my LCD-2s with this piece.


----------



## dminches

What is the warranty on the CS-300x?  Is it transferable?  I can't find any information on their web site.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Hmm I suggest you ask your importer :O


----------



## dminches

I did that.  I am waiting for a response.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I just got a note from Steve at In Living Stereo and he said my CS300x should be in in the next 4-5 days.  Sounds like they upped production or the demand has dropped since I ordered it only 11 days ago.


 

 Fantastic. Perhaps it's just in the stars that you get yours so quickly. The quicker you get it, the sooner we get to hear your impressions on its personality. Congratulations dminches!


----------



## Skylab

I've decided to sell my CS300X 100V since I was able to get a 120V one for a very good price, and it will make for less clutter.  (Hint Hint - anyone looking for a Leben at a very nice price might want to check the FS section here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## dminches

Damn, where do you find these golden nuggets?


----------



## Skylab

I have friends looking out for me


----------



## Skylab

I got a DIY HE-6 speaker cable adapter yesterday and have been listening to the HE-6 via the speaker outs of my Leben CS300X.  WOW.  Best HE-6 sound I have heard yet.  Using the headphone out of the Leben, I needed the volume at about 11:00.  I can only just use 9:00 from the speaker outs, so there is more power available from the Leben's speaker outs than from its headphone out.  But more importantly the sounds is SO effortless!  Wow.  Color me impressed.


----------



## dminches

Does this mean that the same approach should be taken for the LCD-2s?  Where did you get the adapter?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Does this mean that the same approach should be taken for the LCD-2s?  Where did you get the adapter?


 


  I'm not sure. It might well, ALTHOUGH someone tried it with the LCD-2 and reported getting some hum and noise, due to the LCD-2 being significantly more sensitive than the HE-6.  And I have never needed any more power than the Leben's headphone out provides for the LCD-2 - I can barely use 9:00 on the CS300X with the LCD-2.


----------



## Double F

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've decided to sell my CS300X 100V since I was able to get a 120V one for a very good price, and it will make for less clutter.  (Hint Hint - anyone looking for a Leben at a very nice price might want to check the FS section here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Less clutter??  How does a 6x6x4 inch box cause much clutter?  In any case enjoy your 120v cs300x.  I was hoping you would be moving up to the cs600 for review purposes


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've decided to sell my CS300X 100V since I was able to get a 120V one for a very good price, and it will make for less clutter.  (Hint Hint - anyone looking for a Leben at a very nice price might want to check the FS section here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  A side-by-side comparison is very welcome! How great is the difference, if any, and is it the same over headphones and speakers?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I should be able to do a side-by-side comparison of the two, briefly, and I am most interested in the results myself


----------



## dminches

Muppetface, have you gotten your CS-300SX yet?  Mine is supposed to be here tomorrow.  Looking forward to it.


----------



## dminches

The Leben has landed.


----------



## Skylab

SWEEEET!  Congrats buddy!


----------



## MuppetFace

My Leben CS-300XS arrived on Tuesday of this week. It's truly an amazing work of art.
   
  I really love pairing the HE-6 and HD800 with it. Unfortunately, there's some audible buzzing with the HD800. Oddly I don't hear any buzzing with the Z1000 (which someone reported). Just the HD800.


----------



## shabta

I have the HD800 and leben, no buzz for me. Maybe it's the tubes?


----------



## MuppetFace

Using the stock tubes for now. They actually sound very nice to me HD800 buzz aside, and since I despise tube rolling I probably wont be messing with them for a few weeks.
   
  I suppose if changing them eliminates the buzz on the HD800, then I'll end up doing it eventually though as that's one of my favorite pairs nowadays.


----------



## shabta

The HD800 sounds soooo gooood on the Leben it's a shame to have anything mar the sound. I don't knowe if it is the tubes but I have mullards and no buzz. At least you should know that no buzz is achievable.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> My Leben CS-300XS arrived ... there's some audible buzzing with the HD800 ...


 

 That's very disappointing.  Mine is dead quiet, stock or rolled.  No consolation, I know, but you should be aware that silence is a realistic and achievable baseline.


----------



## vert

Bought Skylab's extra 300x.
   
  The Leben is as advertised - the music is effortless. I have it hooked to a Chord QBD76 dac, playing lossless files.
   
  The things is, the Leben is so transparent it's exposing a brightness issue in my setup. I have HD600s, and I had to swap out the Cardas headphone cable because it was so bright. I'm thinking of getting another aftermarket cable, ie Stefan Art. It's either my interconnects or the HD600s that are causing the problem. The Sennheisers might not even be broken in yet - are they know to be bright?


----------



## DC5Zilla

HD600s are certainly more bright compared to the 650 IMO.  in regards to cables, look up the Double Helix Cable.  They seem to have very nice OCC cables that adds warmth for pretty nice price.  I myself have Stefan Audio cables and although I do love them, they are bit steep in price.
   
  EDIT: changing tubes may be more beneficial per money


----------



## MikeLa

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Using the stock tubes for now. They actually sound very nice to me HD800 buzz aside, and since I despise tube rolling I probably wont be messing with them for a few weeks.
> 
> I suppose if changing them eliminates the buzz on the HD800, then I'll end up doing it eventually though as that's one of my favorite pairs nowadays.


 

 I would send Leben an email, you shouldn't be hearing any buzz.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





vert said:


> Bought Skylab's extra 300x.
> 
> The Leben is as advertised - the music is effortless. I have it hooked to a Chord QBD76 dac, playing lossless files.
> 
> The things is, the Leben is so transparent it's exposing a brightness issue in my setup. I have HD600s, and I had to swap out the Cardas headphone cable because it was so bright. I'm thinking of getting another aftermarket cable, ie Stefan Art. It's either my interconnects or the HD600s that are causing the problem. The Sennheisers might not even be broken in yet - are they know to be bright?


 

 I agree with a previous post that changing tubes would be more cost effective, and the change could also be more substantial than cable swapping. For the price of a Stefan Audio Art you can get some nice sets of tubes.
   
  Wow, I see that the Stefan AA pricing is now so elevated that you can get MANY nice sets of tubes instead, $699 for a 10 foot cable!


----------



## Skylab

@ Vert, I am glad you are enjoying the Leben you got from me.
   
  The tubes that are in there are certainly serviceable, but the 12AX7's especially would make good rolling targets.  Something to consider at some point.  You can get smoother driver tubes, for sure.
   
  @ MuppetFace - do your Edition 8's hum with the Leben?  If they do, I'd try a tube change for sure.  If they do NOT, then it's really odd that the HD800 would.  My first Leben hummed with some very high sensitivity headphones.  Nothing you could hear with the LCD-2, but slightly audible with my DX1000 and the Edition 8.  I changed driver tubes, and no hum.


----------



## MuppetFace

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding the buzzing, I'm not too concerned since I've heard several other Leben owners report buzz with various sensitive headphones. I'm sure Skylab and others are right about it being a tube issue. I'll make trying a different set of tubes a priority. If there's still buzzing with a different quad of tubes, then I'll get in touch with whoever handles the warranty.
   
  Today I experienced a truly amazing setup: the Leben CS-300X paired with the Ultrasone Edition 10. Sweet, sweet euphony. There was no buzz with the Edition 10, but I'll try the Edition 8 as well.


----------



## dminches

Are you using the speaker outputs or the headphone output?


----------



## vert

Thanks to everyone for all of the input. The Leben is highly resolving and transparent, and the Chord is the same. So this is a pretty ruthlessly revealing combo.
   
  The Leben is a piece of art though. Looks like a one-off piece. Definitely gives you that pride of ownership when you look at it.


----------



## arnesto

Mine has a hum, but I can only hear it before I play any music.
   
  Doesn't bother me and I knew about it before I bought it.
   
  I think this is normal.


----------



## vert

Well I can safely say all you guys and girls who get to listen to this amp every night are pretty spoiled.
   
  Resolution and transparency are quite amazing. The Chord DAC I'm using extracts every last bit of detail from CD format, and the Leben relays that information beautifully. And of course the music just flows.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> Mine has a hum, but I can only hear it before I play any music.
> 
> Doesn't bother me and I knew about it before I bought it.
> 
> I think this is normal.


 
  My Leben hums when with the DT990 600Ω. Tubes are Mullard EL84 and GE 5751. I can hear a hum when the 990 is paired with the Woo 22 as well.


----------



## RedBull

My Leben doesn't hum with HD650, LCD-2 and SR-60


----------



## Henerenry

WOw, I didnt realise the Leben was so tiny!
  
  Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding the buzzing, I'm not too concerned since I've heard several other Leben owners report buzz with various sensitive headphones. I'm sure Skylab and others are right about it being a tube issue. I'll make trying a different set of tubes a priority. If there's still buzzing with a different quad of tubes, then I'll get in touch with whoever handles the warranty.
> 
> Today I experienced a truly amazing setup: the Leben CS-300X paired with the Ultrasone Edition 10. Sweet, sweet euphony. There was no buzz with the Edition 10, but I'll try the Edition 8 as well.


----------



## dminches

This Leben is one incredible sounding amp.  I spent some time with it listening to my office speakers (Totem Mites which are not every efficient speakers) and they have never sounded so good.  My NOS tubes are finally burning in after about 15 or so hours and the Leben is signing.  And it sounds equally wonderful with the LCD-2s.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





henerenry said:


> WOw, I didnt realise the Leben was so tiny!


 

 It was smaller but also much heavier than I expected. Rock-solid construction.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> This Leben is one incredible sounding amp.  I spent some time with it listening to my office speakers (Totem Mites which are not every efficient speakers) and they have never sounded so good.  My NOS tubes are finally burning in after about 15 or so hours and the Leben is signing.  And it sounds equally wonderful with the LCD-2s.


 

 Sweet!  I am glad to hear that the Leben is sounding good with the Totems as well as the LCD-2.
   


  Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding the buzzing, I'm not too concerned since I've heard several other Leben owners report buzz with various sensitive headphones. I'm sure Skylab and others are right about it being a tube issue. I'll make trying a different set of tubes a priority. If there's still buzzing with a different quad of tubes, then I'll get in touch with whoever handles the warranty.
> 
> Today I experienced a truly amazing setup: the Leben CS-300X paired with the Ultrasone Edition 10. Sweet, sweet euphony. There was no buzz with the Edition 10, but I'll try the Edition 8 as well.


 
   
  Nice!  Glad to know that combo sounds good.  I hope to get to try it today.  The usual family activities have limited both my listening and head-fi time the last few days (but not complaining - I am fortunate that I our family Christmas is really fun and one of my favorite times).  I only even got about 20 minutes with the R10!  But looking forward to the Ed 10 - Leben try-out.


----------



## Duckman

My Leben CS300XS is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
   
  Happy New Year!


----------



## dminches

Congrats. You are going to love it.


----------



## Duckman

And a quad of factory matched Genalex Gold Lion reissues is on it's way too.
   
  Hope they're okay.
   
  I've heard good things.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





duckman said:


> And a quad of factory matched Genalex Gold Lion reissues is on it's way too.
> 
> Hope they're okay.
> 
> I've heard good things.


 

 They're more than OK.  They're better than 75% of today's typical NOS.  I think you'll be very pleased.


----------



## KevinR70

Add me to the list of Leben owners!  I've been looking for a used one for months (can't believe I missed Skyklabs sale) and finally broke down and paid full price for a CS300XS from Pitch Perfect Audio yesterday.  Hopefully it will be here in 2 to 3 weeks.  I also went ahead and picked up a used HE-6 with speaker tap adapter yesterday from the FS section to go along with my LCD-2, just for the Leben.  Man, my wallet took a hit yesterday!  I can't wait to get this amp.  Still in the process of researching tube upgrades.  I'm leaning toward the Gold Lions, but not sure about the 12AX7/5751 tubes.  Anyone using the Genelax ECC83/12AX7 tubes with the Genelax EL84's?    What are others using for the 12AX7/5751 tubes that are running the Genelax El84's.  Any other tube recommendations that haven't been metioned earlier?  Thanks.


----------



## InnerSpace

I use the Genelex 12AX7s in another amp, and they're fine.  But the Leben seems to always come with pretty good JAN drivers, so perhaps you should try rolling just the output EL84s first?  Ditching the stock Sovteks for the Genelex might be all you need to do.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> Add me to the list of Leben owners!  I've been looking for a used one for months (can't believe I missed Skyklabs sale) and finally broke down and paid full price for a CS300XS from Pitch Perfect Audio yesterday.  Hopefully it will be here in 2 to 3 weeks.  I also went ahead and picked up a used HE-6 with speaker tap adapter yesterday from the FS section to go along with my LCD-2, just for the Leben.  Man, my wallet took a hit yesterday!  I can't wait to get this amp.  Still in the process of researching tube upgrades.  I'm leaning toward the Gold Lions, but not sure about the 12AX7/5751 tubes.  Anyone using the Genelax ECC83/12AX7 tubes with the Genelax EL84's?    What are others using for the 12AX7/5751 tubes that are running the Genelax El84's.  Any other tube recommendations that haven't been metioned earlier?  Thanks.


 

 I know that you will be more than pleased with your new Leben order. I too ordered my CS300XS from Matt at Pitch Perfect Audio. He has a fantastic showroom.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> I use the Genelex 12AX7s in another amp, and they're fine.  But the Leben seems to always come with pretty good JAN drivers, so perhaps you should try rolling just the output EL84s first?  Ditching the stock Sovteks for the Genelex might be all you need to do.


 


 Thanks for the advice.  I will just try the gold lion 84's first.
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know that you will be more than pleased with your new Leben order. I too ordered my CS300XS from Matt at Pitch Perfect Audio. He has a fantastic showroom.


 
   
  Matt has been very helpful.  Hopefully the wait time won't be too long, he estimated 2 to 3 weeks.  I guess my next purchase down the road will be a pair of DeVore speakers that he highly recommended with the Leben.


----------



## MikeLa

I'm running NOS tubes, 2x 5751 RCA Blackplate's and 4x EL84 RCA Smokeglass.


----------



## KevinR70

Anyone running NOS Valvo EL84's?


----------



## vert

To all of the Leben owners who also have a Zana Deux, how would you compare the two amps? I noticed Clayton and Muppet posting on the Zana Deux thread.


----------



## singh

I cant seem to find the Price of CS300X . 
  As i am buying the HE6, they surely need some power , leben suits the bill but i can spend at most $1500, are these within it ( by the looks of it these look exotic, and look like they cost aound 3000-4000, but i am optimistic , so dont flame me  )


----------



## mikecole

Hi guys. I just finished reading all 35 pages of this thread. This is the first place I have visited that had a relatively large crew of Leben 300 owners. I have had my Leben CS300XS for a couple of years now. I love it. I am currently using the original GE 5751s that it came with along with a set of Gold Lion re-issue EL-84s that I just got a few months ago. The Gold Lions are my favorite so far. The Sovteks were too bright and hard sounding. I tried the Mullard re-issues and they were much better, but maybe a bit lush - or they were getting soft after almost 2 years of use. The Gold Lions bridge the gap and have more presence and authority than the other sets of tubes. I listen mainly thru speakers, but when I want to do some headphone listening, I use my Beyer DT-990 Pros. I like these because they have a nice beefy sound to them. The other headphones I tried all had a kind of airy ethereal sound. The Leben does equally well with speakers and headphones, so I am equally happy listebing to either. Now if it only had a phono stage ...
   
  Mike


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikecole said:


> Hi guys. I just finished reading all 35 pages of this thread. This is the first place I have visited that had a relatively large crew of Leben 300 owners. I have had my Leben CS300XS for a couple of years now. I love it. I am currently using the original GE 5751s that it came with along with a set of Gold Lion re-issue EL-84s that I just got a few months ago. The Gold Lions are my favorite so far. The Sovteks were too bright and hard sounding. I tried the Mullard re-issues and they were much better, but maybe a bit lush - or they were getting soft after almost 2 years of use. The Gold Lions bridge the gap and have more presence and authority than the other sets of tubes. I listen mainly thru speakers, but when I want to do some headphone listening, I use my Beyer DT-990 Pros. I like these because they have a nice beefy sound to them. The other headphones I tried all had a kind of airy ethereal sound. The Leben does equally well with speakers and headphones, so I am equally happy listebing to either. Now if it only had a phono stage ...
> 
> Mike


 

 Hi Mike,
  Thanks for your post on the Gold Lions. It's great to know that the Gold Lion re-issue of the EL-84s are your favorite. NOS tubes are getting ridiculously pricey and good re-issues are a welcome alternative to ensure my wallet's survival after last year's (2010) spending frenzy.


----------



## mikecole

Yeah, if I am going to have a tube amp, then I don't want to have to rely on NOS to get good sound. Luckily, the Gold Lions do it for me. I definitely don't want to pay more for something that will need to replaced every couple of years. And even at $120 for a matched quad, they are still on the pricey side.
   
  Mike


----------



## Jian

I ordered Sylvania black plates 6BQ5 and Sylvania grey plates tripo mica 5751 for my CS300X, hopefuly they will sound great.


----------



## mikecole

BTW, for those of you who don't like the gold knobs (I didn't), there is a guy on the net (thingamaknob) that makes knobs for stereo equipment. He made a set for my Leben from Macassar Ebony.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, those are gorgeous!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow, those are gorgeous!


 

 They are, but I happen to love the golden knobs.  I love everything about the styling of this unit.


----------



## Skylab

I agree - I like the look of the stock unit as well, of course


----------



## Clayton SF

The wood knobs compliment the wood sideboards. It's a very nice touch. Well done.


----------



## zen87192

Hi all,

I'm collecting my Leben CS-300XS on Wednesday and although I am interested to find out how it sounds out of the box in standard form I want to prepare for an upgrade.
This will be my first table top amp as I have used portables up until now so please forgive my ignorance.
I've seen that Mullard EL-84 's are flavour of the century and I have been hunting these down somewhat unsuccessfully. I realise that I need a quad set and my question is as follows: Do I need to select a quad set of near equal ma for all tubes? Or is it good enough in pairs regardless of each pairs ma?
I ask this as I have found a quad set of Phillips branded Mullard EL-84 Khul Tube Cryo all at 49ma-50ma and also two separate pairs of standard Mullards which -in pairs- are 10ma difference between them - but more expensive as they are actual branded Mullards. Has anyone any thoughts on the Khul Tube Cryo? 
Thank you for any feedback. Happy New Year to all.


----------



## Skylab

Small differences in the tubes measurements should not matter much if at all.  Tubes do sound quite different in the CS300XS, though.  I just rolled in a quad of Philips Holland EL84's and some Sylvania triple-mica black plate 5751's, and they sound different than what I was using.  So for sure get a nice set of tubes or two.  I can't comment on Kuhl tubes but in general I'm not a big believer of paying a premium for cryogenic treatment which I think it dubious at best.


----------



## arnesto

Do you guys use the Bass Boost? The HD800 phones really came alive when I started to use the Bass Boost.
   
  Some CDs sound better with it off, but I can't imagine not using it for some other CDs.
   
  Just wondering if other owners are using it.


----------



## Skylab

I personally do not, but I am using the CS300XS with my R10's now, and they do not need it. But I can imagine with the HD800 it could often be a benefit.


----------



## RedBull

I'm using it with LCD-2 which already have bass 'fullness', I don't need the Bass Boost.
   
  So Skylab, how's R10 with the Leben?  Since I think R10 is quite sensitive, do you hear hum or buzz with the CS-300XS?


----------



## Skylab

redbull said:


> I'm using it with LCD-2 which already have bass 'fullness', I don't need the Bass Boost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


Not even a trace of hum or buzz. It sounds absolutely heavenly. Best sounding headphone and headphone amp combo I have ever heard, at my home, or anywhere else


----------



## RedBull

^ as expected  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I wish I could afford the cost.  
  Ok, I pass, can't follow you this time, now matter how good your review is about R10


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> Do you guys use the Bass Boost? The HD800 phones really came alive when I started to use the Bass Boost.
> 
> Some CDs sound better with it off, but I can't imagine not using it for some other CDs.
> 
> Just wondering if other owners are using it.


 

 I only use it sometimes when I am listening at low volume levels. Never with classical, but with rock'nroll.
   
  I have also found that the leben pairs fantastically well with proac tablette 8 speakers. I set it up for near/mid field  listening and again I use bass boost sometimes at low volume.. What is kinda cool is that in a near field set up i don't get much room or placement issues and I can listen at neighbor friendly volume. I listen to music some days for many hours. As comfortable as the HD800 is sometimes  it is nice to get it off my head for a bit.


----------



## Anders

I often use the bass boost with K1000, but only the lower level of 3 dB. These headphones have a steep bass roll-off and I imagine that bass boost was designed to compensate for small speakers with steep bass roll-off. I have almost always found the 5 dB level to be too much.
   
  Listening at low volume is another instance where bass boost can be useful.


----------



## vert

Anders, you've got some nice gear there to feed the Leben. I've always been interested in how the Reimyo and Accustic Arts sources sounded like.
   
  I've replaced the tubes on my Leben with Genalex Lion & Sylvania 5751 (thanks Rob). When I added the Genalex, I definitely noticed a golden hue to the sound. The combination of the Genalex/Sylvania pair has shifted the tonality of my setup and smoothed it out, which is something it needed as the Chord DAC was overpowering with its resolution. Amazingly though, the new tubes have added texture, resolution, and transparency - they've really take the Leben to another level.
   
  Of course it's all relative to what was there (or not there before). It's amazing at this level how every change makes a difference. I'd like to thank everyone for suggesting the change of tubes.


----------



## dminches

vert, what EL84/6BQ5s were you using before?


----------



## vert

Hi dminches, I was using vintage Russian EL84 & Groove Tube (current production Chinese) 12AX7.
   
  The new tubes are definitely more immediate sounding and have less distortion than the ones above.


----------



## Skylab

Vert, glad the new tubes are working out well for you! There is no doubt that the Leben will sound different with different tubes. I've been really digging my current set - Philips Holland EL84's and Sylvania Gold Brand triple-mica black plate 5751's. Provides a very vivid but balanced sound.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





vert said:


> Anders, you've got some nice gear there to feed the Leben. I've always been interested in how the Reimyo and Accustic Arts sources sounded like.


 


  vert, It is always difficult to tell how something sounds but I hope you get the general character by saying that the Reimyo has a very smooth and natural sound with a slight warmth. Details are there but not emphasized or edgy and dynamics is good. I bought a demo a short time before the current model was released and price was not unreasonable. It is said to sound best with the Reimyo drive but that is excessively expensive and I don't  consider it. Probably the time for CD transports will come to an end and will be replaced by computer transports. I recently got a Halide Bridge and will test it with the Reimyo, the first impression was good I but I have not yet compared it directly to the CD drive.
   
  I used Chord CD64 DAC for a short time and think that sounded very good in the memory buffer setting, although the other setting was not sounding that good. The QBD76 is the latest version of the Chord DAC if I remember right. vert, I see you also have the Halide Bridge and just wonder if sound improves with the bridge also if you use the memory buffer setting?


----------



## KevinR70

Just picked up a quad of 1950's Holland Amperex Bugleboy EL84's and a pair of Sylvania blackplate triple mica gold labeled gold pin 5751's from Brent Jessie (super nice guy to deal with btw).  I was going to go reissue gold lion, which he doesn't sell, but he talked me into the Amperex.  I may pick up a pair of gold lions as well for comparison since they are fairly cheap and Brent offers a money back guarantee if I decide there isn't much difference in the EL84's.  The wait for the Leben is killing me!!  At least I'll be geared up by the time it arrives.


----------



## vert

Hi Anders, yes the Chord sound is improved with the Halide Bridge versus toslink connection from the Mac. I also use the buffer setting which definitely improves the sound and makes it more relaxing to listen to.
   
  I'm thrilled with computer transports, however, there is the problem with jitter (which degrades the sound). I haven't bought a masterclock, but I think you might need one to get the most out of a DAC hooked up to a computer. Whereas with an all-in-one CD player, like the older Reimyo, you don't have to worry about the jitter created by the SPDIF connection. There are a lot variables and having asynchronous USB on the DAC might help.
   
  Even if I change to another source, I'm still keeping the Leben.


----------



## Anders

It seems that jitter has to be reduced as much as possible in every step. Computer hardware, software and settings, cable etc to get it as low as possible before it enters the Halide Bridge (or the DAC input). Asynchronous only seems to reduce, but not remove jitter. The measurements in John Atkinsons review of the Halide Bridge in Stereophile support this. The Bridge obviously reduced jitter but the lower it was before it entered the Bridge the lower it was at the output of the Bridge.
   
  Leben has an advantage in that it is relatively permissive of shortcomings in the source and recording quality, the difference is clearly audible but bad quality doesn't suck as much as with many other amps. And I like many albums with great music but less than stellar recording quality.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> Just picked up a quad of 1950's Holland Amperex Bugleboy EL84's ...


 

 Great choice.  I use those tubes in my Leben and couldn't be happier.  Enjoy!


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That's good to hear.  What input tubes are you using?  Did you try other EL84's before the Bugleboy's?  Thanks!


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> What input tubes are you using?  Did you try other EL84's before the Bugleboy's?  Thanks!


 

 Well, bear in mind I turned my Leben into a highly specific partner for one particular pair of HD800s.  (Long story short, I tried many pairs on and off, and kept two.  The pair I use with the Leben has its treble spike a little higher in frequency than normal - my by-ear estimate is about 7k.  Sample variation is quite broad.)  I think they're wonderful phones and totally worth working with, but there's no denying their FR tilts away from the bass toward the treble.  So I optimized the Leben as a partner.  I used BugleBoy drivers too, which when feeding the BugleBoy output tubes is a definite chocolate-chocolate chip approach in terms of bass and warmth.  Not like turning a tone control, exactly - it's much more subtle than that - but the drivers "lean warm" a little, and so do the outputs, so when cascaded as a whole, they really slam in the lower registers - energetically, enthusiastically and joyously.  Roll off is already happening around 7k, and the phones' treble peak just perks up the start of the last octave.  (I can't hear much above 12 or 15k anyway.  Too old.  Plus I saw - heard - Led Zeppelin's first tour.)
   
  If it was a general-purpose amp I would have used 50s or 60s Telefunken EL84s after the BugleBoy drivers.  That's a pretty perfect balance, IMO.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





anders said:


> Leben has an advantage in that it is relatively permissive of shortcomings in the source and recording quality, the difference is clearly audible but bad quality doesn't suck as much as with many other amps. And I like many albums with great music but less than stellar recording quality.


 

 Do you really think the Leben is forgiving? I haven't compared it to other amps, but it's obviously transparent. I'm going to make some tweaks to my source and interconnects and I'm sure the Leben will respond. 
   
  Besides the Halide, you can also look into the Audiophilleo2, which has the lowest measured jitter. There's also the M2Tech Evo, that you could run off a battery. I'm seriously considering going to a one box solution with CDs to avoid all of this.


----------



## heathfucmh

Blackmore said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Basically, you can not go wrong with Mullards, however depends on what is your taste of the sound of course is, so, you may like Telefunkens or Siemens more. Teles, in general, are great overall tubes with great balance overall, but some folks find them "hard" sounding, while Siemens are very spacey/airy where details are top notch, but can sound bit to extended/sterile. Mullards are warm sounding with nice detail and great mids, bass can be "loosy" with some headphones, but the best ones are NOS from the earlier 50's, actually all of them, and that's make them quite expensive to buy.
> Well, if you going tubes you should know that.Not sure if there any EL84 Tung Sols, but if yes, try them to, cos they are like Teles, but with softer/richer touch. Also Brimars are one that have quite rich/musical sound, so you have some work to do, which is very fun, imo.
> ...






It's very useful, Thanks for your answer! It's helpful to me.


----------



## Jian

[size=medium]hi, there is no leben cs300x owner's thread here, and this thread is actually "the" leben thread. Shall we suggest Gu sensei to add some words (like a sub title) on the thread title, indicating this is "the" leben thread?​[/size]


----------



## Skylab

That would be great! GuSensei, are you game to change the title to Leben CS300XS comment thread, or something?


----------



## Gu Sensei

Quote:


skylab said:


> That would be great! GuSensei, are you game to change the title to Leben CS300XS comment thread, or something?


 

 Done and done.
   
   
  Cheers to Leben, what a cool amp!


----------



## Jian

Just came back from a local gathering and used the Leben to drive the k1000 with +3db bass boost. Have to say it was not bad at all, though the source and the power supply was not ideal. Confirmed one thing, HE6 is harder to drive than k1000


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





vert said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Not stupidly forgiving as it is very transparent but amps give different emphasis to harshness and distortion in the source. Although such limitations are clearly audible they are usually not giving you pain in the ears with Leben. I think this is very important, and more important to me than if an amp is extremely detailed, which not always is an advantage. How forgiving Leben is is partly dependent on tubes, you can tune it to give a desirable balance.


----------



## Skylab

Love the new thread title, thanks Greg!


----------



## Jian

One pic from the gathering awesome title by the way!


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





gu sensei said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> skylab said:
> ...


 

 Hey GuSensei! Thanks for THE Leben thread!


----------



## Skylab

I spent a healthy chunk of my morning this AM with the HE-6 connected to the Leben CS300XS's speaker outs - and there is no doubt that they sound absolutely phenomenal this way.  The sound is notably better than via the Leben's headphone out, and better than the headphone out of any of my conventional headphone amps.  Only the Decware Mini-Torii is competitive. 
   
  Via the speaker outs of the Leben, the HE-6 have an incredibly effortless delivery.  The dynanics are just explosive, and the sound is so smooth, and yet so detailed, it's pretty impressive.  I have ordered some cables and adapters to allow me to try the LCD-2 and the HD800 from the speaker outs.


----------



## daveDerek

cool Rob! i can't wait to hear the results of that trial. too bad they're still not up to the R10s level (if i understand your preferences. obviously some might prefer one can or another)


----------



## vert

I've heard of people driving the HE-6 with First Watt amps. They're supposed to be incredible. The Tone Audio magazine publisher replaced his Burmesters with a First Watt amp and he said casual visitors to his house didn't notice.
   
  Where are you ordering the speaker hook up cables from, Skylab? I would interested in your results with the LCD-2.
   
  Has anyone tried an aftermarket power cable for the Leben? I just replaced the stock generic cable on my DAC and it's incredible what it does to the sound. Removes the digital edge/grit that you're accustomed to hearing. You don't notice it until it's gone. With the noise removed, the details come to the surface, allowing you to listen at a lower volume. Everything is much more vibrant and organic. I'm not sure how well it will work with the Leben since I'd have to plug it into a transformer that has a cheapie cord and plug.


----------



## dminches

I am using a Grover Huffman power cord.  I started using it when I first got the Leben so I can't really compare it to the stock cord.  I will do that one of these days.


----------



## vert

dminches, you're using a Grover cable, huh? You are definitely in the know. Do you have any experience with his interconnects? Let us know how your power cord experiment plays out.


----------



## Skylab

I bought one from a DIYer, and one from Moon Audio.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





vert said:


> dminches, you're using a Grover cable, huh? You are definitely in the know. Do you have any experience with his interconnects? Let us know how your power cord experiment plays out.


 


  I also have a pair of interconnects and a pair of phono interconnects.  I have been happy with all his products and they are all very reasonably priced.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spent a healthy chunk of my morning this AM with the HE-6 connected to the Leben CS300XS's speaker outs - and there is no doubt that they sound absolutely phenomenal this way.  The sound is notably better than via the Leben's headphone out, and better than the headphone out of any of my conventional headphone amps.  Only the Decware Mini-Torii is competitive.
> 
> Via the speaker outs of the Leben, the HE-6 have an incredibly effortless delivery.  The dynanics are just explosive, and the sound is so smooth, and yet so detailed, it's pretty impressive.  I have ordered some cables and adapters to allow me to try the LCD-2 and the HD800 from the speaker outs.


 
   
   
  That's great news for me since I have been really enjoying the HE-6 out of the speaker taps of a cheap Onkyo receiver while I wait for the Leben.  I have a short speaker tap adapter terminated to bare wire.  Do you mind me asking how your speaker adapter is terminated (bare wire, spades, or bananas) and how you set your imp switch on the Leben when driving the HE-6 through the speaker outs?  I have no experience with spades or bananas, but would like to make the best connection possible to the Leben.  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I am using bare wire - and the highest of the Leben's impedance switch settings.


----------



## Jian

I do highest setting too (8 ohm), and with spade.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for  that.  Wow! Led Zeppelin is one of my all time favorites.  I can't imagine seeing them live back in the day.  Must have been awesome!


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am using bare wire - and the highest of the Leben's impedance switch settings.


 


   


  Quote: 





jian said:


> I do highest setting too (8 ohm), and with spade.


 


  Thanks for the replies.  Skylab, do you still slightly prefer the LCD-2 over the HE-6 with the 6 being driven out of the speaker outs of the Leben?  If you can't beat the speaker outs of the Leben with the HE-6 I might just get a custom cable terminated with wire or spades and just forget about the 1/4 jack for the HE-6.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:  





> Thanks for the replies.  Skylab, do you still slightly prefer the LCD-2 over the HE-6 with the 6 being driven out of the speaker outs of the Leben?  If you can't beat the speaker outs of the Leben with the HE-6 I might just get a custom cable terminated with wire or spades and just forget about the 1/4 jack for the HE-6.


 

 Not sure, but I am getting an adapter made to use the LCD-2 with the Leben speaker out - that will be the proper comparo.


----------



## Duckman

Rob, I think you'll be disappointed with the pairing (Leben terminals/LCD2). I was curious and tried it, but there was a lot of noise.


----------



## vert

Swapped my interconnects to DCCA Eminence. I was getting a dry, analytical, and grainy sound before. I thought it was coming from the Leben or the DAC or the Senns. Well, it turns out it was the interconnects! The Leben is sounding transparent, liquid-y smooth, and really musical now. The soundstage is like sitting in a small jazz club now, just like the owner of DCCA describes.
   
  Just goes to show ya. All of these headphone reviews are completely system dependent, even down to the interconnects.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





> Thanks for the replies.  Skylab, do you still slightly prefer the LCD-2 over the HE-6 with the 6 being driven out of the speaker outs of the Leben?  If you can't beat the speaker outs of the Leben with the HE-6 I might just get a custom cable terminated with wire or spades and just forget about the 1/4 jack for the HE-6.


 

 Interested as well.
   
  Leben speaker out > HE-6 *vs* Leben headphone out > LCD-2


----------



## Skylab

duckman said:


> Rob, I think you'll be disappointed with the pairing (Leben terminals/LCD2). I was curious and tried it, but there was a lot of noise.





 
Interesting. It's not really costing me anything to try it, as I wanted the adapter anyway. There is zero noise with the HE-6, though - dead silence. I was almost surprised by that.


----------



## vert

All I can say is this amp is very transparent. I installed an aftermarket power cable on my DAC, replacing the stock. This made a big difference.
   
  Now that I've pulled it out, and put the stock cable back in, I'm having a very hard time listening to the system. Any grain or noise you have coming from the power supply will show up immediately on this amp.


----------



## Skylab

just FYI, there is a Leben CS300X for sale on Audiogon in Europe that is 230V. I cannot vouch for the seller, but I just thought I would point it out, as you don't see that very often.


----------



## vert

Yeah, saw that 230v for sale on Audiogon. Anyone using the 100v version plugged directly without the transformer in the US?


----------



## Skylab

I think that would be a very bad idea, unless you live in an area with a relably low voltage. The voltage in my house is almost always 125V - that is way too much for a 100V rated transformer. It will cook the Leben.


----------



## carm

Skylab,
   
  The other day I have found Red Wine Audio Isabella review, which you had written. It would be silly to ask, (because it has passed a lot time since you've heard it), but I hope that this majestic piece of equipment have made huge impression upon you.
  How would you compare Isabella and CS300XS? Which one would be better for various headphones (HD800, T1, LCD-2, and others)? 
   
  By the way, thank you for auction info !


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





carm said:


> Skylab,
> 
> The other day I have found Red Wine Audio Isabella review, which you had written. It would be silly to ask, (because it has passed a lot time since you've heard it), but I hope that this majestic piece of equipment have made huge impression upon you.
> How would you compare Isabella and CS300XS? Which one would be better for various headphones (HD800, T1, LCD-2, and others)?
> ...


 

 He likes the CS300XS better: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/402585/review-summary-a-ranking-of-25-tube-and-tube-hybrid-headphone-amps


----------



## Jian

my tubes for the 300x finally arrived and I will change the fuse as will. My friend said the fuse would give the 300x better clarity and resolution, we'll see.


----------



## carm

Thank you, Eric.
   
  Shame on me, that I have missed that thread.
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> He likes the CS300XS better: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/402585/review-summary-a-ranking-of-25-tube-and-tube-hybrid-headphone-amps


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





carm said:


> Skylab,
> 
> The other day I have found Red Wine Audio Isabella review, which you had written. It would be silly to ask, (because it has passed a lot time since you've heard it), but I hope that this majestic piece of equipment have made huge impression upon you.
> How would you compare Isabella and CS300XS? Which one would be better for various headphones (HD800, T1, LCD-2, and others)?
> ...


 

 Unfortunately there is no way for me to make any detailed comparison between them - far too much time passed in between hearing them.  For sure both are excellent.  But the Leben remains the best headphone amp I personally have heard, IMHO.


----------



## vert

Skylab - yeah it would probably be bad idea to not use a transformer.
   
  I'm also interested in how the Isabella sounds, but I don't think the build quality justifies the asking price of that unit.


----------



## Skylab

Today I tried the LCD-2 out of the speaker outs of the CS300XS - but not for very long. As was mentioned here by others, there is too much audible noise in this configuration. The HE-6 are spectacular from the speaker outs, but the LCD-2 are better via the Leben's headphone out.


----------



## dminches

Rob, why do you think that is the case?  Does it have to do with an impedence matching issue?


----------



## Skylab

I think it has to do with the sensitivity of the LCD-2 being much higher than the HE-6, and given that with headphones your ears are right next to the drivers, from the speaker taps there is just a little too much noise audible.  You can't really hear it with music playing, but why listen to it at all?  The LCD-2 work excellently via the headphone out of the Leben - in the case of the HE-6, there was not quite enough power via the headphone out.


----------



## KevinR70

Just got word that my unit has shipped!  NOS tubes arrived yesterday.


----------



## shabta

Cool! What tubes did you get?
  
  Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> Just got word that my unit has shipped!  NOS tubes arrived yesterday.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





shabta said:


> Cool! What tubes did you get?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Holland Amperex Bugleboy EL84's and Sylvania blackplate triple mica gold 5751's


----------



## Skylab

That's exactly what I am using in my CS300XS. Super nice tube set for the Leben.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's exactly what I am using in my CS300XS. Super nice tube set for the Leben.


 
   
  That's good to hear.  I picked them up from Brent Jessee Recording and he had a lot of good things to say about them as well.  He basically told me the the triple mica gold Sylvania's where in his opinion the best 5751's ever made.


----------



## vert

Surprised no one has mentioned the quality of electricity and its effect when this amp is in the system. The Leben is so transparent I can't listen to it during the day time. It's strident and grungy. Probably coming from the crap electricity polluting my source. After 1am, it's pure bliss. Seriously thinking of getting a power regenerator or conditioner. Can't do all of my listening after 1am.


----------



## Jian

I use DSS TR250HE/DSS NZ160HE as power processor on my system. Makes day and night differences.


----------



## vert

What's a DSS TR250HE/DSS NZ160HE? Did a search and didn't come up with anything.


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





vert said:


> What's a DSS TR250HE/DSS NZ160HE? Did a search and didn't come up with anything.


 


  DSS stands for  Dillenhöfer Sound System, is a Germany HIFI equipment company, famous for their power supply products. They are not very popular in U.S or Asia . The "HE" stands for their high end product line which use different materials than their standard version.
http://www.dss-sound.com/


----------



## Skylab

My Leben is plugged into an Audio Power Industries AC filter/surge protector.  The filtering is important, IMO.


----------



## dminches

I have my Leben plugged into a Channel Islands audio XDC-2 AC line filter.  This amp is the quietest tube component I have ever heard, so to speak.


----------



## vert

Quote:


jian said:


> DSS stands for  Dillenhöfer Sound System, is a Germany HIFI equipment company, famous for their power supply products. They are not very popular in U.S or Asia . The "HE" stands for their high end product line which use different materials than their standard version.
> http://www.dss-sound.com/


 
   
  Wow, that is nice. Typical German build quality. Too bad you can't find any info on them.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





vert said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jian said:
> ...


 

 Try clicking on the link?


----------



## vert

I meant info on the unit besides the marketing on the website. I googled and couldn't find anything.
   
  In any case, I will be trying an Adept Response line conditioner. It's gotten impossible for me to listen to the Leben until late at night. I really wanted to try to the APS Purepower regenerators, but that'll have to wait.


----------



## dminches

You need to be careful with the various power units and make sure that they don't limit current.  I would use the most passive power unit you can find that cleans the power but does little else.


----------



## Skylab

Good advice, David. That's why I use the Audio Power. No current limiting.


----------



## dminches

Rob, which Audio Power model do you use?


----------



## vert

David, the Adept is a passive unit. I believe the newer regenerators do not limit current. Although it's the age old debate of passive vs. active. I think a lot of audiophiles who've tried different units complain that they color the sound one way or another.


----------



## googleli

I am curious why no one mentions Telefunken tubes. I am using Telefunken for both EL84 nad 12AX7 on the Leben CS300XS and they sound absolutely amazing compared with the original tubes supplied. The only complaint is they are too balanced - to the point that it sounds like a solid state amp - but really really good overall. Am considering buying some Mullards or Amperex for the 12AX7 to appreciate the change, for better or worse - any suggestions on the difference between Mullard and Amperex?


----------



## googleli

I am using WBT banana plugs.

  
  Quote: 





kevinr70 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





			
				dminches said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Rob, which Audio Power model do you use?


 


  Mine is a little older model - Power Wedge 110.  This was designed for high current draw amps.

  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> I am curious why no one mentions Telefunken tubes. I am using Telefunken for both EL84 nad 12AX7 on the Leben CS300XS and they sound absolutely amazing compared with the original tubes supplied. The only complaint is they are too balanced - to the point that it sounds like a solid state amp - but really really good overall. Am considering buying some Mullards or Amperex for the 12AX7 to appreciate the change, for better or worse - any suggestions on the difference between Mullard and Amperex?


 


  You described my exact issue with Telefunkens - they sound too sterile and bright, to me.  But some people love them.
   
  There are lots of different Ameprex 12AX7's, and quite a few Mullards, too.  They do not all sound the same.  But I really prefer 5751's in the Leben, versus 12AX7's.  I trued Mullard CV4004's (British military 12AX7's), but I like the Sylvania triple-mica black plate 5751 much better in the Leben.


----------



## KevinR70

I couldn't justify having the Leben without speakers so I ordered a pair of these  http://www.decware.com/newsite/MG944.html   last week.  Expected delivery time is 6 weeks, but I'm hopeful they will do very well with the Leben.  They are designed for low power tube gear.


----------



## daveDerek

Kevin, i know this thread isn't about those speakers but i'm sure  a few folks would love to hear your take on them.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





davederek said:


> Kevin, i know this thread isn't about those speakers but i'm sure  a few folks would love to hear your take on them.


 

 I'll be sure to post some impressions with the Leben after they arrive.  I was told 6 weeks when I ordered last week.


----------



## RedBull

^ Looking forward for you impression Kevin.  It's a good idea buying from a tube amp factory, you can be sure it is designed for generally low power tubes.


----------



## dminches

Listening to my Leben / LCD-2 setup is on my top 5 of things to do to enjoy and relax.


----------



## Skylab

And a great relaxing time that is, David!I
   
  I have begun to think that, with the Leben + Sony R10 combo, I have spoiled myself to the point of absurdity.  But life is short


----------



## googleli

Skylab, is your R10 bass heavy or bass light version? How does the combo compare to the Omega 2 combo?


----------



## Skylab

My R10 are bass-heavy. I have no experience with the Omega 2 other than at meets.


----------



## KevinR70

I've justed added a pretty large post to the other leben thread since I'm having some issues driving my LCD-2's and it had been discussed in that thread.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks.


----------



## vert

Hey Guys, I may be moving overseas and selling my CS300x 100v. It's a lovely amp, and I'll probably pick up a 230v Leben or Harmony Ear 909 (check out Jian's avatar) when I go overseas. I could probably do the 100 -> 230v conversion, but I figure it's better to run it in native voltage with that much of a jump. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## wfr329

Hi everybody,
   
  this is my first post on this forum. The only one i know about Leben !!!
   
  I am planing to get a DAC. Are there known good matches with Leben ?
   
  Thanks
   
  Walter


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spent a healthy chunk of my morning this AM with the HE-6 connected to the Leben CS300XS's speaker outs - and there is no doubt that they sound absolutely phenomenal this way.  The sound is notably better than via the Leben's headphone out, and better than the headphone out of any of my conventional headphone amps.  Only the Decware Mini-Torii is competitive.
> 
> Via the speaker outs of the Leben, the HE-6 have an incredibly effortless delivery.  The dynanics are just explosive, and the sound is so smooth, and yet so detailed, it's pretty impressive.  I have ordered some cables and adapters to allow me to try the LCD-2 and the HD800 from the speaker outs.


 

 Wow!  I am in the process of being blown away here listening to Junior Wells "Come on in the House" SACD with the HE-6 out of the leben speaker tabs right now (about 10 on dial with the bass boost on 3).  The best headphone experience I've had to date.  BTW, when I flip to my Senn 650's through the headphone jack I'm getting about the same sound level as the HE-6 out of the taps, both at about 10 on the dial.  Is this consistent with the volume level others are getting out of the speaker taps with HE-6 vs the headphone jack with other headphones?  My 650's out of the hp jack and the HE-6 out of the taps are amazing.  It's a shame I can't drive my LCD-2's out of the hp jack (see my post in other thread).  Something else that surprised me this morning is I swapped out my NOS sylvania blackplate triple mica 5751's for the stock sovtek 7025's and my slight buzz with 650's is completely gone and the buzz I was getting out of the HE-6 from the taps is now very faint.  Surprising since I thought the 7025's have more gain than the 5751's.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, when using the HE-6 from the speaker taps I am usually at 9-10 o'clock. 

The buzz must have been a noisy tube of the Sylvanias. Note that the Sovteks are not a "real" 7025. So who knows the exact gain of that tube.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, when using the HE-6 from the speaker taps I am usually at 9-10 o'clock.
> 
> The buzz must have been a noisy tube of the Sylvanias. Note that the Sovteks are not a "real" 7025. So who knows the exact gain of that tube.


 


  Are you getting the same impact/drive with the LCD's at the same volume through the hp jack?  Are you getting any hum/buzz noise out of the HE-6 with the volume all the way down with your triple mica 5751's?


----------



## Skylab

Absolutely zero noise noticeable from the HE-6 via the speaker outs. Which is funny, because when I tried the LCD-2 via the speaker outs, I could hear some hum and noise. 

Via the headphone out, though, I get no hum or noise from the LCD-2, or any headphone I use, on my CS300XS. With the JVC DX1000, I can hear the faintest bit of hum, but that headphone is unusual in that regard, in that for some reason I have been able to hear some hum with basically every tube amp I have ever used them with other than the RSA Stealth.


----------



## Petyot

Hi,
   
  Sorry if it is not the right place to ask the question but has anybody compared the Cayin SP-10A with the Leben ? 
   



   
  According to Stereophile : "the 35Wpc SP-10A integrated uses four EL24s, two 12AU7s, and a 12AX7 ($1695). Actually, you can buy the SP-10A with 6l6s for 18Wpc or KT88s for 50Wpc—prices vary, based on configuration" (source : http://www.stereophile.com/ces2008/011108sp/index.html)
   
  Could it be considered a poor man's Leben ? Any idea if it could drive the K1000 ?
   
  The technical specification :
   
   

 
 [size=10pt] *Technical specification[size=10pt][/size]
  *[/size]
 [size=10pt] * Integrated Amplifier*[/size]
 [size=10pt] *Frequency response:*[/size]
 [size=10pt] 15 Hz - 35 kHz[/size]
 [size=10pt] *Total harmonic distortion (THD):*[/size]
 [size=10pt] 1 % (1 kHz)[/size]
 [size=10pt] *Signal-to-noise ratio:*[/size]
 [size=10pt] 85dB[/size]
 [size=10pt] Input sensitivity:[/size]
 [size=10pt] 470mV[/size]
 [size=10pt] *Vacuum tube:*[/size]
 [size=10pt] 4x 6L6, 2x 12AU7, 1x 12AX7[/size]
 [size=10pt] Accessories[/size]
 [size=10pt] Remote Control[/size]
 [size=10pt] Input Terminals:[/size]
 [size=10pt] CD, Line 1, Line 2, Line 3[/size]
 [size=10pt] Circiut:[/size]
 [size=10pt] Class AB PP[/size]
 [size=10pt] Colour:[/size]
 [size=10pt] Piano laquer, cherry, walnut[/size]
 [size=10pt] Colour front:[/size]
 [size=10pt] silver[/size]
 [size=10pt] Output Impedance:[/size]
 [size=10pt] 4 Ohm, 8 Ohm[/size]
 [size=10pt] Power Output:[/size]
 [size=10pt] 2 x 30 Watt @ 8 Ohm[/size]
 [size=10pt] Weight[/size]
 [size=10pt] 20kg[/size]
 [size=10pt] Dimensions W x H x D:[/size]
 [size=10pt] 400 x 180 x 329mm[/size]

  [size=10pt]  [/size]

   
  Any opinion would be appreciated.
   
  Thanks
   
  Pierre


----------



## Skylab

Very pretty amp!  Tempting to get one configured for 6550/KT88's


----------



## Petyot

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very pretty amp!  Tempting to get one configured for 6550/KT88's


 


  Just do it and give us your opinion!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I agree with you : that amp is incredibly nice.


----------



## Skylab

I can't see that it is for sale in the USA anywhere.


----------



## Petyot

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can't see that it is for sale in the USA anywhere.


 

 Vas industries is the USA wholesaler :* *http://www.vasindustries.com/


----------



## Henmyr

My Leben started buzzing at something like 100hz maybe. It was rather faint but easily heard. The bass boost increased the volume of the buzz. After a short while there was a rather large pop in the left headphone, so I turned the amp off. There was no source connected during this.
   
  Can this be a sign of a preamp tube going bad (I hope)? There was no difference between my sovtek and genalex el84, so it should be them.


----------



## Anders

Sorry for that but the information is not enough to see a clear cause. I have had tubes that pop but nothing was wrong with them, some NOS tubes had pops and hum during the first hour and after that worked perfectly. Well, the pops disappeared fast but the hum could take some hours, and some continue to be noisy.
  It is not clear if the tube plays music. If the tube doesn't play or it continues to be severely distorted, it is obviously faulty and must be replaced.
   
  Did you get the same result after changing output tubes? Then it should be an input tube.


----------



## Henmyr

The tubes do play music. 
   
  The problem is present with both my quads of EL84.
   
  Unfortunately, I swapped the L and R preamp tubes, and the problem is still in the left headphone, so it's probably something else (unfortunately).


----------



## majkel

The hum you've heard was due to hypersonic oscillation that moved the tubes' bias point out of specs. I caused the CS300XS once to hum in both channels by specific placement of the headphone cable and it disappeared when I moved the cable a bit. This means there is a radio frequency interference between the amp circuits and headphones causing the oscillation and instability. Just a design flaw in the headphone circuit, neither failure nor tubes being about to die.


----------



## Skylab

One other thing - you said you had no source connected.  I wouldn't advise that.  You should always have a source connected when you have the amp powered on.


----------



## googleli

I recently find out that one of my EL84s glow dimmer than the other 3. Does it mean this one has come to an end or is coming to an end soon? They were matched at the local tube store when I bought them. But I don't notice any difference in sound, and left / right channels are still very balanced. Is the dimmer tube defective? Would continue using this set of EL84s cause any damage to the amp?
   
  Skylab, by the way I got some NOS Sylvannia 12AX7s made from the 50's, and they sound amazing. Thanks for your advice. Still trying to look for Long-plate D-getter Amperex 12AX7s, but no luck so far.


----------



## Henmyr

Thanks for all the suggestions.
   
  The power tube in the leftmost socket is glowing red, and is independent on which tube is in there (have swapped the tubes around), so the problem is most likely somewhere in the amp.
   
  This thread is probably not the right place for the rest of my troubleshooting though.


----------



## KevinR70

Quote: 





googleli said:


> I recently find out that one of my EL84s glow dimmer than the other 3. Does it mean this one has come to an end or is coming to an end soon? They were matched at the local tube store when I bought them. But I don't notice any difference in sound, and left / right channels are still very balanced. Is the dimmer tube defective? Would continue using this set of EL84s cause any damage to the amp?
> 
> Skylab, by the way I got some NOS Sylvannia 12AX7s made from the 50's, and they sound amazing. Thanks for your advice. *Still trying to look for Long-plate D-getter Amperex 12AX7s, but no luck so far.*


 
  Brent Jessee has 10 pairs of NOS.  They're up there at $399/pair.


----------



## Rufus1974

I have just recently purchased a Leben CS300xs mainly for my HE6 phones, changed the tubes to 2 x RCA 5751 command series and 4 x Genalex Gold Lion EL84 and must say that sound-wise I'm not too impressed using my AKG K701s.  With these phones connected to the headphone-out of the amp, I can hear a distortion at medium to high levels (especially on bass-heavy music).  This is something I never noticed on all the headphone amps I used.  I haven't tried the HE6s yet lest I might be disappointed.  I would like to ask the long-time users of this amp if this problem might be due to a faulty tube or whether the Genalex tubes, in general, might be the culprit.  Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Anders

I picked up my K701 that I haven't used with the Leben for a long time. It sounds good and K701 was earlier mentioned as a headphone that matched the Leben well, before the half dozen of highend headphones that arrived later and are more discussed just now. I don't use the Gold Lion tubes currently but still own them and regard them as good tubes. People may like them differently but they certainly do not distort more than other tubes.
   
  So I guess there is something wrong with one or more tubes, not necessarily the Gold Lion. Another possibility that comes to my mind is that mismatched output tubes in a push-pull configuration increase distortion. How easily audible this is something I don't know, but guess it usually is not that strong.
   
  Do you get distortion also with the stock tubes? If not, it should have something to do with the exchanged tubes.
   
  PS. Some tubes, especially NOS tubes in my experience, can sound rather nasty during the first hours.


----------



## googleli

Hey Rufus do you play Street Fighter 4?


----------



## gzone3lement

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding the buzzing, I'm not too concerned since I've heard several other Leben owners report buzz with various sensitive headphones. I'm sure Skylab and others are right about it being a tube issue. I'll make trying a different set of tubes a priority. If there's still buzzing with a different quad of tubes, then I'll get in touch with whoever handles the warranty.
> 
> Today I experienced a truly amazing setup: the Leben CS-300X paired with the Ultrasone Edition 10. Sweet, sweet euphony. There was no buzz with the Edition 10, but I'll try the Edition 8 as well.


 

 Wow, it's like they both are made for each other!


----------



## Jian

I play street fighter 4


----------



## illkemist

I hope maybe someone can give me some guidance.
   
  I bought a CS-300 from a fellow forum member in 2009. Everything seemed to be fine for a while and then I started having problems with the volume fading in and out of the right channel. There was also static in the channel as well. I wanted to have the unit inspected for problems, but I couldn't find any authorized repair shops in Taiwan. People were suggesting that the voltage regulator might have been to blame. But after consulting Leben, it was decided that Taiwan's power standards (110V) were within the tolerable range.
   
  I sorta forgot about it for a while since I had another amp and was busy with work. After a few months, I pulled it out of the closet, determined to fix the problem. So, I ordered new tubes, installed them and had the same problems. Somehow, after emailing Leben about the problem, the unit started to perform regularly. The fading was gone. The static, nonexistent. Great! Once I told them that the problem no longer existed, we concluded our correspondence. Then, it started up again. I emailed them but received no further responses. Not exactly sure why. Perhaps the person I had been talking to left the company.
   
  I became too busy to care for a while and only pulled it out again last month after the arrival of my LCD-2s. Only this time, the static was still there, occurring sporadically, but noticeably. Only, after a couple of days, I decided to adjust the volume (I normally keep it about 12:00, because I am feeding it from my Grace m902, which controls the levels). Now, the unit functions well. Actually, it sounds great with the new headphones (no, FANTASTIC). Now, if I hear static or have volume problems, I just make a slight adjustment to the volume up or down, and the problem goes away.
   
  Has anyone ever had any similar problems? What should I do about this?
   
  I live in Taiwan and the amp is originally from Japan. Shipping there and diagnosing it could be expensive and uneccesary. I've been offered help by a friend's father, who happens to own a high-end audio store. Only, I don't want to hand him a machine which has a problem that is sporadic and cannot be replicated.
   
  Any suggestions?


----------



## mrarroyo

Long time no see! Hope you are doing great and judging by the equipment you are indeed doing fine. Have  you looked at the tube sockets? It may be something as simple as a loose or dirty pin holder in the sockets for the right channel, if so just clean/retighten them. Good luck.


----------



## illkemist

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Long time no see! Hope you are doing great and judging by the equipment you are indeed doing fine. Have  you looked at the tube sockets? It may be something as simple as a loose or dirty pin holder in the sockets for the right channel, if so just clean/retighten them. Good luck.


 


  Thanks, Miguel. Things are going well here. Unfortunately, I haven't been spending as much time on the forum, but I have been lurking quite a bit. It's great to live abroad, but I sorta miss home too. I went back to Florida in December to visit my family, but for now, Taiwan is my home. I wouldn't mind making it to a meet, though. Good times.
   
  Now, when you say clean them, how do you do it? Is it as simple as using a bit of air to remove dust and debris, or is there more to it? I have a Giottos rocket that I use for cleaning my photographic equipment. Can I use something like that, or do I need to get down and dirty?


----------



## dminches

From 30,000 feet it sounds like the attenuator (volume control) could be dirty.  Do you hear any crackling noises when you turn it?


----------



## Skylab

I occasionally spray a little electronic contact cleaner in my tube sockets - the kind that comes in the high velocity spray can.  In the US you can get it at any hardware store.


----------



## illkemist

Quote: 





dminches said:


> From 30,000 feet it sounds like the attenuator (volume control) could be dirty.  Do you hear any crackling noises when you turn it?


 


  Actually, I do. But I don't hear it every time I adjust it. More accurately, I only hear it occasionally and it's not in the same position each time.


----------



## Rufus1974

Thanks for the advice.  I have pulled out the Gold Lions and put the stock tubes in and also replaced the RCA 5751s with another set I had.  The sound is a lot clearer now, albeit with less bass response which may be due to the tubes being brand-new.  All in all, the amp sounds so much better now with no noticeable distortion.  Due to the HE6s being so finicky as far as their cable connectors are concerned (the left connector keeps coming off and Warren Audio's after-market cable puts a lot of extra weight on these sensitive connectors), I will probably go for the LCD-2 depending on how well they harmonize with the Leben.  Time will tell.  Thanks again for your help.


----------



## mrarroyo

Yes Fred it is simple to clean I would have a clean and lint free rag to catch any overspray. Also you can clean the tube pins using a brush and electronic cleaner. Good luck.


----------



## mikecole

I agree with dminches. illkemist, you might try turning the unit off and turning the volume knob back and forth rapidly a dozen times to see if it cleans the contacts off. I have had to do this with vintage equipment, but I would not think a newer unit like the Leben would develop this sort of problem. Then again, I am no electronics expert 
   
  Mike


----------



## illkemist

Thanks for all the responses. Fortunately, the unit works just fine if I adjust the volume pot. If I hear some kind of static, I just step up or down and it's gone. I'll try the suggestions you've all given me. Thanks for the help.


----------



## mourip

My (new to me) Leben has the same crackling issue. It is intermittently in one channel even after replacing the input tubes. It is not affected by changing the volume or rocking the tubes but can be influenced by touching the chassis. Someone mentioned that it might be induced noise via the headphone jack. It is quite pronounced when using my HD650's but not really noticable when running my K1000's off the speaker taps. I am thinking that it is my high impedance 300ohm 650's although using a 4:1 impedancer does not help. What did help was placing a sheet of mu-metal shielding under the amp which is on a shelf above my DAC. Perhaps the HP output is picking up something from the DAC.
   
  On another note. I open up the Leben to check the solder joints on the input tube of the affected channel and noticed that the power transformer has two terminals: one labeled 100v and the other labeled 110v. I am wondering if the 110v is what they use for the US model and of course the 100v is for Japan as my unit is wired for. I am wondering if wiring it to the 110v would be close enough for using here in the US without the external stepdown transformer. I am not so worried about the B+ voltage being high as for running the filaments a bit over spec. Anyone with a US model looked under the hood yet?
   
  Enguring minds want to know


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





mourip said:


> What did help was placing a sheet of mu-metal shielding under the amp which is on a shelf above my DAC. Perhaps the HP output is picking up something from the DAC.
> 
> On another note. I open up the Leben to check the solder joints on the input tube of the affected channel and noticed that the power transformer has two terminals: one labeled 100v and the other labeled 110v. I am wondering if the 110v is what they use for the US model and of course the 100v is for Japan as my unit is wired for.


 

 It is also possible that the DAC picked up radiation from the headphone amplifier, DACs work with small voltages and can be very sensitive. The shielding of the DAC is not always as good as it should be.
   
  It seems that you have found a possibility to rewire the Leben from 100 to 110 V. Many transformers have output taps for dual voltages, but answers from the DIY-experts are more reliable, maybe ask in the DIY forum. Very interesting indeed!


----------



## mourip

Unfortunately my mains voltage runs about 124v so it still may be a stretch from 110v. I might wire it up with some "beater" tubes and check with my meter...


----------



## Anders

That is almost 13 percent overvoltage with 110 V as  a reference, and too much for long term durability. I thought that something around 115 V was a common voltage in USA.


----------



## Skylab

120V is the nominal.  My house is almost always 126V, unless it's summer and the air conditioning is running, then it's about 118V.


----------



## Clayton SF

That's interesting. I was cleaning the back of my shelves this morning and noticed that 7 of my amps and 3 DACs and 1 CD player are all set to 115V (three of them Woos). The 2 Decware amps have a 110/120 label. The only amp that has a 120V label is the Leben. Hum? =/ My apartment is a constant 120V. It's at 113V when the electric space heater is going full-on--like right now. Eek!


----------



## vert

Well, if you can get it to run safely at 110v, you've bypassed the US dealer mark up.


----------



## MikeLa

Pardon the iPhone picture, but just started to break-in the Zu Superfly's... Not exactly a dedicated listening room and it's early (less than 10 hrs), but to my ear's it sounds like the CS300xs likes the Zu's, and at 101 db they can rock too!


----------



## Clayton SF

Drool drool drool. Very nice. So utilitarian. So very nice. Nipper must be very happy sitting on a Zu Superfly!


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


petyot said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry if it is not the right place to ask the question but has anybody compared the Cayin SP-10A with the Leben ?


 
   
  Pretty looking amp!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's interesting. I was cleaning the back of my shelves this morning and noticed that 7 of my amps and 3 DACs and 1 CD player are all set to 115V (three of them Woos). The 2 Decware amps have a 110/120 label. The only amp that has a 120V label is the Leben. Hum? =/ My apartment is a constant 120V. It's at 113V when the electric space heater is going full-on--like right now. Eek!


 


 Wow!  7 amps!   I wish I'm your neighbor


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Pretty looking amp!
> 
> Wow!  7 amps!   I wish I'm your neighbor


 

 I wish I was Skylab's neighbor!


----------



## Skylab

Hey, I only have 8 headphone amps!  But maybe they are different amps from yours


----------



## vert

So does anyone know if the North American models are just the Japanese units switched to 110v?
   
  Oh, just saw Clayton's post. So what country would the 110v setting be for? I assume US?
   
  I wonder if the 120v label is nominal and it's actually the Japanese units switched to 110v.
   
  BTW, I found this tidbit on another audio dealer site:
   
  Quote: 





> Overseas buyers have to use a voltage step-down transformer, which will actually improve the sound by filtering out all the high frequency noises in the AC - this is why isolation transformer based power conditioners like Richard Gray, Running Springs Audio, API etc. are so popular.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





> Overseas buyers have to use a voltage step-down transformer, which will actually improve the sound by filtering out all the high frequency noises in the AC - this is why isolation transformer based power conditioners like Richard Gray, Running Springs Audio, API etc. are so popular.


 
   
  step down transformer? if the japanese voltage is 100, and north america is 120, and much of the rest of the world is 240 wouldn't the voltage need to stepped _up_, not down?


----------



## vert

Yes, they were selling a 120v unit for overseas market.
   
  But the interesting point is that power transformers can improve sound, instead of degrading it like most people think.


----------



## daveDerek

iirc, skylab had a 100v japanese unit w/ a transformer, and swapped it for a 120v unit. i'm not sure if he compared the two and if he reached any conclusions about what was the better set up to run in north america.


----------



## Skylab

You are stepping DOWN the 120V wall outlet voltage in the US to 100V if you are wanting to use a Japan version in the US.

I did have the Japan version at first, and I noticed no definable difference when using the step-down transformer. I always maintained that if anything, it would have benefits, but the Leben importer swears that the step-down transformer negatively impacts the sound. Of course, buying the much cheaper units from Japan for use in the US definitely negatively impacts the US Importers sales, so make what you will of his technical comments.

In any case, but my current Leben's are 120V, but not because I had any issue using the 100V ones with a transformer.


----------



## Jian

I wonder if my 220V version can be used it UK


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





vert said:


> So does anyone know if the North American models are just the Japanese units switched to 110v?
> 
> Oh, just saw Clayton's post. So what country would the 110v setting be for? I assume US?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, but these audiophile isolation transformers from Richard Gray etc. are quite expensive and not an alternative for saving money. I had a slightly negative result of a moderate priced step-down transformer (230V to 100V) but this was not with the Leben and result can vary depending on power requirements of components etc, transformers seem usually to be degrading when you need much power with fast bursts (e.g. power amplifiers for speakers).


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





jian said:


> I wonder if my 220V version can be used it UK


 

 I think you should measure the voltage at the place you will use it. Not easy because actual voltage may vary by time of day and season. If you have 230V that is now the nominal voltage in UK it should be OK, but if you get values over 240 V is may be too much. Overvoltage leads to shorter lifetime of tubes and components but there is no absolute limit and it is hard to know how different components react. You can be sure of shorter lifetime but not how much. You can look at this about voltages in Europe:
   
http://www.energy-solutions.co.uk/euro-volt-stand.html


----------



## Jian

Cheers


----------



## vert

Quote: 





> Yes, but these audiophile isolation transformers from Richard Gray etc. are quite expensive and not an alternative for saving money. I had a slightly negative result of a moderate priced step-down transformer (230V to 100V) but this was not with the Leben and result can vary depending on power requirements of components etc, transformers seem usually to be degrading when you need much power with fast bursts (e.g. power amplifiers for speakers).


 
   
  What I meant was according to the theory then using a transformer to convert the power may help the sound. I wasn't referring to the expensive power conditioners. But I know several people, including myself, using the Leben with a transformer and very happy with it.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





> Sorry if it is not the right place to ask the question but has anybody compared the Cayin SP-10A with the Leben ?


 
   
  I noticed in the other Leben thread Double F was getting good results with the Cayin HA-1A. So the much more expensive SP-10A might be a good alternative to the Leben.


----------



## mourip

Anyone with a US "120v" Leben game to pop off the bottom panel and see if they have two posts on their power transformer labeled 100v and 110v with the 110v wired up... or if there is just one post labled 120v?
   
  Inquiring minds want to know


----------



## carm

Of course. UK voltage is 220 - 240 V
  
  Quote: 





jian said:


> I wonder if my 220V version can be used it UK


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mourip said:


> Anyone with a US "120v" Leben game to pop off the bottom panel and see if they have two posts on their power transformer labeled 100v and 110v with the 110v wired up... or if there is just one post labled 120v?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know


 

 mourip-- Say no more. Your wish is granted. Here's the the bottom of my Leben CS300XS. Please tell me what you're up to:


----------



## Skylab

That answers that question. Different transformer, clearly marked with a 115VAC output.


----------



## googleli

Using Amperex long plate D getter 12AX7s and Telefunken for EL84s, the Leben now sounds amazing. Glad that I took the leap and changed the tubes. I also got a pair of Mullard 50's double support O' getter but the sound is a bit too slow for my liking. 12AX7s are very musical and at the same time retains details and clarity. Great tubes I'd say.


----------



## Skylab

Nice!  There is no doubt the Leben responds well to tube rolling


----------



## mourip

Thanks Clayton,
   
  I was hoping that the US version simply was the Japan version with different terminals wired up but my hopes were dashed...sniff...
   
  I should have known that Leben would do the right thing


----------



## Afrikane

#127583, tubed with all NOS Gold Lion N709s and B759s, plays well with both K1000s and HD800s.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Now wait a minute. The wood sides on your Leben looks nothing like mine. What kind of wood is that and who made it? I looks fantastic.


----------



## Afrikane

Hi Clayton, the wood is a bit of Afzelia burl that I had lying about. If you have the tools it's pretty easy to make your own panels.


----------



## Skylab

Those custom panels are to die for - just beautiful, Afrikane.  When I retire, I am going to get into woodworking for sure.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Well I think it compliments the gold faceplate very well. Judging from the photo, the wood has a touch of gold as well. I think you've just upped its value. Nice!


----------



## Afrikane

The Afzelia will go a bit darker in time and the gold flecks will stand out more. I did not do my best job on rubbing out the finish so I will probably take it off again in a few months and start from scratch.


----------



## jovi007

Wow~!! It is so pretty~!!
  good joy~!
  Quote: 





afrikane said:


> #127583, tubed with all NOS Gold Lion N709s and B759s, plays well with both K1000s and HD800s.


----------



## jovi007

I am planning to get a wyed4sound dac to connect my new come leben cs300xs, is it a good match?


----------



## jovi007

interesting, it makes me wanting to buy the s800 to try~XDD
  Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Well, I got my reply from Leben directly on the output power and some other information:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mourip

Based upon my own recent experience it is an excellent match. It is very clean sounding with an excellent mid-range, non-fatiguing, and a great sense of dynamics. Be sure to not draw too many conclusions about the DAC2 until it has at least 200 hours on it. It does keep getting better for quite a while...


----------



## jovi007

Quote: 





mourip said:


> Based upon my own recent experience it is an excellent match. It is very clean sounding with an excellent mid-range, non-fatiguing, and a great sense of dynamics. Be sure to not draw too many conclusions about the DAC2 until it has at least 200 hours on it. It does keep getting better for quite a while...


 

 Understand~ thanks of your comment~
  then I can go to order one tomorrow~
   
  and did u change the fuse? some people said the cover is difficult to open to change the fuse. is it ture? thanks~


----------



## Clayton SF

mourip said:


> Based upon my own recent experience it is an excellent match. It is very clean sounding with an excellent mid-range, non-fatiguing, and a great sense of dynamics. Be sure to not draw too many conclusions about the DAC2 until it has at least 200 hours on it. It does keep getting better for quite a while...


Thanks for this valuable info. Much appreciated. I am now seriously considering getting the DAC2 to pair with the Leben! Eek!


----------



## mourip

Have not pop'd the hood yet. Still letting it break in and enjoying


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





jovi007 said:


> Understand~ thanks of your comment~
> then I can go to order one tomorrow~
> 
> and did u change the fuse? some people said the cover is difficult to open to change the fuse. is it ture? thanks~


 
   

 [size=medium]The 300x does benefit from changing the fuse.​[/size]


----------



## daveDerek

how so? what's the need to change the fuse, what do you change it from->to, and to what effect?


----------



## jovi007

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> I use the Genelex 12AX7s in another amp, and they're fine.  But the Leben seems to always come with pretty good JAN drivers, so perhaps you should try rolling just the output EL84s first?  Ditching the stock Sovteks for the Genelex might be all you need to do.


 
   
  excuse me, wht is  "JAN drviers"?
  I am a newbie of tube amp........
  Thanks


----------



## daveDerek

JAN = joint army navy tubes:
  http://www.tonequest.com/articles/article3.htm


----------



## googleli

Can anyone please enlighten me as to which power cord is a good match for the Leben? I have got a Siltech SPX800 Gold/Silver G07 Power Cord for my Esoteric DAC recently and the result is very good. Not sure if the same thing works for the Leben CS300XS though. I am looking for branded power cords for better resale value, but at an acceptable price (e.g. half the price of the Leben is the maximum).


----------



## daveDerek

google, i haven't personally tried them (yet) but these might be worth a look:
  http://www.downsizeaudiocables.com/products.html


----------



## jovi007

Quote: 





davederek said:


> JAN = joint army navy tubes:
> http://www.tonequest.com/articles/article3.htm


 


  Thanks a lot~! I got it~! XD


----------



## jovi007

Quote: 





jian said:


> The 300x does benefit from changing the fuse.​


 
  Yes, I think so. I may get a hifi tuning supeme for it~
  or any recommend? XD


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





jovi007 said:


> Yes, I think so. I may get a hifi tuning supeme for it~
> or any recommend? XD






   
  I'm using power house platinum or palladium, depends on different music type and different phones. IMO, Pt gives more warmth and Pd gives more air.


----------



## Skylab

I'm using a Bolder Cable COmpany cable with mine, but it's an older model.  I didn't buy it - it came with something else I bought.  I'm not really into fancy power cables, but this one certainly seems to work fine.  I also liked the even cheaper Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord just as well.  And it's $40.  I see no reason to spend more than that on a power cord, myself.


----------



## vert

Just picked up another CS300XS. Actually it was Double F's amp that has exchanged a few hands. So it's back in the head-fi fold now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyone running Mullard EL84s? The amp also came with Sovteks, but I have a feeling I'll the like the Mullards more.


----------



## Clayton SF

Is there a reason that this particular CS300XS is being passed from hand to hand?


----------



## vert

Oh, it wasn't being "passed around". Just was sold through a couple of owners.


----------



## googleli

Skylab, back to the topic of tubes. I found some vintage Mullards selling for $400+ on Brent Jessee for a pair, so that would be $800+ for a quad set. Are these vintage Mullards notably better than the, say, 60's Mullards? When you recommended Mullards in the LCD-2 thread which ones were you referring to? Many thanks.


----------



## Skylab

That seems like a LOT of money for a quad of EL84's. I paid $200 for a NOS quad of Holland Philips/Amperex and I think they sound great. Also really like the Sylvania black plate which you can get for about the same. I spent less than $200 for the quad of original Mullards I have, but they we used and are branded Rogers. You can save money buying Mullards that were rebranded. They're nice tubes for sure - maybe the warmest of the EL84 but still with good detail. But in the end I stuck with the Amperex.


----------



## Henmyr

My Leben CS300 is up and running again. I think the original problem was due to lose tube sockets. That problem damaged one power tube and one preamp tube. I tightened the sockets and got one new power tube (matched with the other 3) and two new preamp tubes, and now it's alive and kicking!


----------



## sachu

is there a separate thread here on this forum regarding tube rolling for the leben 600? was looking to point a friend here for some tube options for his leben.
   
  Do the 300 and 600 share the same tubes?


----------



## Afrikane

The CS600 takes 4x 6L6GC(5881) or 4x 6CS7 and 1x 6CJ3; very different from the CS300s 5751/12ax7 and EL84s


----------



## sachu

thanks afrikane...have you had any experience with the 600 and recommend some tubes for it? Appreciate any help here.


----------



## Afrikane

Sorry Sachu, I have only heard it once or twice in someone else's speaker system; far from qualified to make comments on what tubes would do it proud.


----------



## sachu

fair enough..yeah a friend wrote to me on another forum asking for help on tube rolling options. I've never heard a leben so was trying to point him to someplace else where he can get some advice/info.
   
  Thanks though


----------



## Afrikane

In every EL34 based amp I have owned my favourite tubes have been NOS Gold Lion KT77s (if the amp can take them) and Mullard XF2s; whether or not they will play nicely with the CS600 I don't know but it is worth looking into.


----------



## Clayton SF

Do you think it's worth it to sell the 300 to get a 600? I know the headphone specs were changed on the 300. Does anyone know what the headphone specs are for the 600?


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Do you think it's worth it to sell the 300 to get a 600?


 

 it might be if you prefer a 6L6 type of sound vs an EL84, else stick with the 300.
   
  earlier today i heard a leben 300 paired with an hd800 and it sounded really good! i preferred it to his pinnacle and marantz amps (though other variables were different sources and different sets of hd800s).


----------



## rgs9200m

I'd be curious to hear how the Leben's sound (the 300 or 600) compares to the RSA B52, since they are both on the warmer side of the fence I believe.
  Has anyone heard both?


----------



## MikeLa

I'm running two matched pairs of NOS USA 6CS7's for the first stage (sorry can't remember the manufacturer) and a quad of EL34M - Mullard reissue Groove Tubes.  The Groove Tubes replaced Shuguang Treasure Black EL34's.  You can direct your friend to Jeff Day's blog site, he has quite-a-bit of Leben info there.  http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/  I just checked his site and noticed he announced the CS600 earned the Stereophile Class A rating (April 2011 issue).


----------



## Wedge

I will be going into the city tomorrow to listen to the Leben CS300XS, hopefully I will be joining the owner's club soon.  I have Mullard EL84s ready to go, and some 5751s to start with.  Does anyone one know if E84L or 7320s are compatible with the 300?


----------



## vert

If you listen to it, you will probably buy it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I picked up a CS300XS, and there's a buzzing coming from the amp. I know this has been discussed before, but it I didn't have this problem on the previous unit I owned. The previous unit hummed, but once the music was playing, I couldn't hear it. Now on this unit, the buzzing is quite apparent.
   
  The Powerbright transformer I'm using also hums, so I'm going to try a different transformer to see if it solves the problem.


----------



## Skylab

Hi vert,
   
  just to be clear, you hear the buzz from the headphones, not a mechanical buzz from the amp?
   
  Either way, turn off any lamp dimmers you may have on nearby.  And is there any chance you have a ground loop?  Maybe try a cheater plug.


----------



## vert

Hi Skylab, the buzz is coming from the headphones. But I think I also hear some kind of buzz/hum coming from transformer. I'm going to try a different transformer next week.
   
  The power cord from the amp is only 2 prong, so I thought about swapping it out for a 3 prong US cord, but I didn't know if it would fit into the transformer's outlet if the outlets were Japanese spec.


----------



## Skylab

That could be the problem right there, is that there may not be any ground currently running. That could cause quite a buzz!


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





vert said:


> If you listen to it, you will probably buy it.


 

 I agree, saying that I bought it.  Now the wait begins.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I will be going into the city tomorrow to listen to the Leben CS300XS, hopefully I will be joining the owner's club soon.  I have Mullard EL84s ready to go, and some 5751s to start with.  Does anyone one know if E84L or 7320s are compatible with the 300?


 
  I've run my 300 with those Siemens E84L. They really sound great. I bought a quad of those back a few months ago but they're no longer available from my _*source*_. Perhaps he'll get more in later.
   
_E84L/7320 Premium Grade EL84 has higher ratings (450V Anode Voltage with 13.5W Anode Dissipation versus EL84 (300V/12W) or 7189 (400V/12W). These can be used for any EL84/6BQ5 or 7189 application with the exception of 7189A, which has a different pinout. _


----------



## vert

Quote:


skylab said:


> That could be the problem right there, is that there may not be any ground currently running. That could cause quite a buzz!


 
  I've tried swapping out the cord for a 3 prong, but the problem is still there. I'll have to see if the transformer solves the problem.


----------



## Anders

I have Siemens E84L and EL84 and they sound close if not identical. I have not made any thorough comparison switching back and forth repeatedly. Good and neutral tube.


----------



## Jian

I'll try some new production Golden lions and mullards.


----------



## googleli

Quote: 





jian said:


> I'll try some new production Golden lions and mullards.


 

 The new production Gold Lion EL84s are among the best EL84s I have heard. I prefer them to my vintage Telefunkens. Only when I got my 1950's Mullard long plate NOS EL84s did I decide to switch them out of my Leben. 1950's Amperex NOS Long Plate D-getter 12AX7s coupled with 1950's Mullard long plate NOS EL84s are about the best combination of tubes you can get, and makes the Leben sounds its very best, IMO.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





googleli said:


> 1950's Amperex NOS Long Plate D-getter 12AX7s coupled with 1950's Mullard long plate NOS EL84s are about the best combination of tubes you can get, and makes the Leben sounds its very best, IMO.


 

 That is a sweet tube set, for sure!  Very nice.


----------



## vert

I've tried a couple of line conditioners with the Leben. I had an Adept Response AR2P, which is a nice unit, but it colored the sound and there was loss in slam. I still preferred to listen to the Leben plugged into the AR2P, since it removed that layer of grunge that you're used to listening to (I don't have a dedicated line).
   
  I recently picked up an Ayre L5-XE, and this is a very nice unit. No sound coloration, just refined, airy, and effortless. I plug a Vertex AQ Jaya Silver Plus RFI shunt box into the Ayre, even though the Ayre already dissipates RFI.
   
  With this line conditioning setup, even when listening to a very modest Sony MegaStorage CD changer, the Leben sounds good.


----------



## dminches

I have been using a Running Springs Duke. It seems very neutral with no current limiting.


----------



## vert

The Running Springs Haley was the other line conditioner I was going to try. It's amazing how much their prices have gone up though.
   
  It's tricky adding a power conditioner, because you dial in your system, and then if you're not careful choosing a power conditioner, it can completely change the complexion and tonality of your system.
   
  On another note, I picked up a step down power transformer that plugs directly into the outlet, no cheapie extension power cord. I'm going to swap the power cable on the Leben and see what difference it makes.


----------



## dminches

I bought my Haley and Duke used on audiogon and paid a reasonable price. I would not have bought either new. They are very pricey.


----------



## Wedge

I hate the long wait I have to do now for the amp.


----------



## SteveM324

I will be joining the Leben team shortly, I placed an order for a CS600 today.  The 600 will be used to drive my Harbeth HL5 loudspeakers and my headphones.  I'm looking forward to hearing it in my speaker setup and of course with all my headphones.  This will be my fourth amp and most likely my last.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On the topic of power conditioners, I use a Running Springs Jaco in my main system and a Haley in my headphone system.  The Running Springs conditioners provide a completely black background that seems to deepen the soundstage.  Also they don't seem to limit current like a lot of PCs do.


----------



## MikeLa

Congrats, you're going to love the CS600.


----------



## t-h-e-p-i-m-p

is there any difference (The Sound ofc) between (while listening with headphones) Leben 300XS and Leben 300 ? (if they use same tubes)./ BEST REGARDS THEPIMP


----------



## Skylab

With headphones, I detect very little difference.  And yes, I own one of each   It's hard to say with certainty because I am using different tubes in each, though.


----------



## vert

If there's that little of a difference, I'm willing to bet the margin between the base and XS model could easily be made up with ancillary components. In fact, it seems that the difference is negligible based upon Skylab's comments.


----------



## Skylab

Again just a reminder my comments relate only to headphone use. I've heard the XS does have a power advantage, and maybe some sonic advantage as well, using speakers.


----------



## vert

I had a tech open my CS300XS (100v), and it appears as though the unit is not grounded by design. I was wondering why the power cord that came with it was only 2 prong. Well this may explain the very slight buzzing noise I hear.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote: 





vert said:


> I had a tech open my CS300XS (100v), and it appears as though the unit is not grounded by design. I was wondering why the power cord that came with it was only 2 prong. Well this may explain the very slight buzzing noise I hear.


 


   
  My 230V CS300 is also like that (ground not connected inside the amp).


----------



## Skylab

Well there is that grounding post on it, which I have never used, but I assume that if you want it grounded, you have to run a wire to that.


----------



## dminches

Many amps are either not grounded or have the option of floating the ground.  If you hear a buzzing noise it means that some other piece of equipment has a grounding issue.  As Rob stated, you could use the grounding post to ground it yourself.  I am using a 3 prong cord with mine.  I never checked to see if the ground is doing anything.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Many amps are either not grounded or have the option of floating the ground.  If you hear a buzzing noise it means that some other piece of equipment has a grounding issue ...


 

 ... or that nothing in the system is grounded.  If the source is grounded, the interconnect shield will (or should) ground the amp.  If the source isn't grounded, then the entire system is floating.  Vert should try touching the Leben's grounding post, and if that reduces the noise, then run a ground cable from it to the ground pin of a spare plug, which can be inserted into a spare wall outlet.


----------



## vert

Thanks for the tip, InnerSpace. I believe the slight buzzing is within the amp's variance of operation. I will probably be picking up 120v north american model and it will be interesting how it compares.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





vert said:


> Thanks for the tip, InnerSpace. I believe the slight buzzing is within the amp's variance of operation. I will probably be picking up 120v north american model and it will be interesting how it compares.


 

 That should solve the problem, I hope.  My 120v US model is dead silent - uncanny.  And I live in a place with poor mains and horrendous RFI.  I have always considered the Leben's silent background one of its main strengths.


----------



## Skylab

Same here - my 120V Leben is dead silent, as long as my kitchen dimmers are off. Those things make even my SS Sunfire amp emit a little buzz!


----------



## Wedge

Something very special came in the mail today.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ CONGRATULATIONS. This may sound weird but doesn't it just smell wonderful? That was my first impression--the wonderful smell of freshly polished wood, and new electronics.


----------



## Skylab

Congrats Wedge!  A fine, fine amp ya got there


----------



## Wedge

Thanks guys, I took the stock tubes out right away, went straight to Phillips branded Amperex EL-84 and GB Sylvania 5751.  Running the amp in a little bit through the speakers.


----------



## vert

Quote:


innerspace said:


> Vert should try touching the Leben's grounding post, and if that reduces the noise, then run a ground cable from it to the ground pin of a spare plug, which can be inserted into a spare wall outlet.


 

 Innerspace, is the grounding post the metal bit inside amp that connects to the inlet? I see that it has two wires going to the inlet, but the ground part isn't wired. I tried touching it but I didn't notice a reduction in noise. Not sure what else to do at this point.


----------



## Skylab

Vert, doesn't your Leben have a grounding post right on the back panel?  Mine do...


----------



## Wedge

next to the tape monitor


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Isn't that the ground for the phono stage?


----------



## Skylab

There is no phono stage in the Leben.  Phono stages have their own ground posts for grounding the TT.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Isn't that the ground for the phono stage?


 


  The 300 doesn't have a phono stage.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks, guys. I had no idea there was a grounding post back there. I should have turned that amp around and looked more carefully.


----------



## vert

Skylab, I see the grounding post now. I tried touching it with my finger, but I didn't notice any improvement in the noise.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





vert said:


> Skylab, I see the grounding post now. I tried touching it with my finger, but I didn't notice any improvement in the noise.


 


  Try REALLY grounding it run a wire to the ground screw of the AC socket (assuming you are comfortable with doing so).  It may not help...but it might!


----------



## vert

Well I wish I was comfortable wiring it . . it seems as though the buzz comes on when the operation light goes on. I've tried swapping tubes, but the noise is still there. Anyone have a spare set of tubes I can try out?


----------



## googleli

Skylab, have you tried using the Leben to drive the LCD2 with some bass heavy music, and turning the Leben very loud (beyond normal listening level), say past the one o'clock mark? I find that with that volume, the LCD would lose control and the sound is distorted and even crackling. Please let me know if it is the case in your experience.


----------



## Skylab

Hi Googleli - I could never possibly listen to the Leben on the LCD-2 at anywhere close to 1:00 - so I am not sure why I would want to try that?  I'm sure if you crank it way beyond sane levels you can make the amp clip - but again, why would I want to intentionally drive the amp into clipping at ear-splitting levels?  My normal listening level with the LCD-2 is below 9:00...I can imagine at 1:00 you would be way, way past the danger zone of volume.


----------



## googleli

Just trying out - coz the LCD2 sounds so good low and high volume I decided to try to crank it up - and the sound distorts and clips. I usually listen at 9-10 and at this volume it is perfectly fine. 

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hi Googleli - I could never possibly listen to the Leben on the LCD-2 at anywhere close to 1:00 - so I am not sure why I would want to try that?  I'm sure if you crank it way beyond sane levels you can make the amp clip - but again, why would I want to intentionally drive the amp into clipping at ear-splitting levels?  My normal listening level with the LCD-2 is below 9:00...I can imagine at 1:00 you would be way, way past the danger zone of volume.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah i am not sure if at that level it would be the amp clipping or the drivers distorting.  I know that with my source's output voltage, 10:00 on the volume control is already peaks well into the mid 90's (about 95dB or so) - which is VERY loud.  At 1:00 I would think you would be way beyond 100dB peaks, which is for sure dangerous levels.


----------



## mrarroyo

WHAT? I can't hear you. Sorry but I could not resist, too many of us are doing permanent damage to our hearing by not following the already "high" levels published by OSHA.
   
   
   
   

```
[font=courier] TABLE G-16 - PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES (1) ______________________________________________________________ | Duration per day, hours | Sound level dBA slow response ____________________________|_________________________________ | 8...........................| 90 6...........................| 92 4...........................| 95 3...........................| 97 2...........................| 100 1 1/2 ......................| 102 1...........................| 105 1/2 ........................| 110 1/4 or less................| 115 ____________________________|________________________________[/font]
```


----------



## Skylab

Right, and that is TOTAL sound exposure per day, not just from headphones


----------



## Wedge

I actually think its the amp compressing.  I never really use the Leben past 10 o'clock, but if I were to venture a guess based on having speakers hooked up to the Leben, which can easily handle more power than the Leben has, I would say the Leben will start to compress before the drivers will start distorting on the LCD-2.


----------



## vert

I took my unit to have it checked out by a tech and it was dead quiet via the headphone output. It appears as though there is interference at my place and the Leben is sensitive to it.
   
  The tech, who was very experienced, told me the unit would run on the 110v setting with no problems without a stepdown transformer.


----------



## Skylab

That's good to know, Vert!


----------



## vert

Thanks Skylab! It's always a headache when these things happen.


----------



## jovi007

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Skylab, have you tried using the Leben to drive the LCD2 with some bass heavy music, and turning the Leben very loud (beyond normal listening level), say past the one o'clock mark? I find that with that volume, the LCD would lose control and the sound is distorted and even crackling. Please let me know if it is the case in your experience.


 


  Googleli, I have the same experience of my LCD2. around 12pm will lose of control (bass and treble)
  my hd800, t1, a100, cec hp53, er4b are also no this issue......
  ed8 also have similar case, but it is just in the exteme bigger sound, around 1pm......
   
  btw, u may think this is a problem or not a problem..... because seldom ppl can stand for this big sound a long period.


----------



## googleli

I am now listening to Kit Chan's 重譯 at about 9:30 to 10 o'clock and it sounds perfectly fine and the volume is just right. Really no reason to test it at higher volume than this...


----------



## vert

It appears the base model CS300 has been discontinued in the US. The XS model is still available. I know Skylab was worried about this, and it looks like it's happened.


----------



## dminches

Why would he be worried, he has a half dozen of these


----------



## Skylab

LOL David! Yeah I have no need for another Leben, having both a CS300 and a CS300XS.
   
  Interestingly there is a warning on Leben's website about not honoring the warranty for units that are bought from non-authorized dealers, most specifically cross-country trans-shipping, that I do not recall seeing before.  I wonder how that applies to units purchased used - both my Lebens were purchased from authorized US dealers - just not by me


----------



## dminches

Where is that warning? I don't see it on leben's web site. 

NM, I see it.


----------



## dminches

It isn't good marketing to have that on your front web page. The first thing people see is a warranty warning which could scare them away.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I agree. I guarantee you the US Importer badgered him into putting that on there. Then again, importing units from Japan from Pricejapan isn't as attractive as it was when the US Dollar was stronger. 

Buying European products is almost out of the question for Americans at the moment.


----------



## dminches

I agree. Why would the guys in Japan care as long as they are selling their products somewhere?


----------



## Skylab

Well, I sympathize with that somewhat. If their US Importer can't make money, he will stop importing the product. Then Leben will lose it's brick and mortar dealers. And I think for a high-end line like Leben to be a success, they need brick and mortar dealers. The CS 300 is the cheapest Leben amp, after all. 

OTOH, I don't think the US Importer has done a particularly great for Leben. No dealer in all of Chicagoland? There are dozens of high-end audio dealers in the Chicago area. To not have even one in the third largest US city is not a winning strategy.


----------



## dminches

That's the part that bothers me.  The US importer isn't providing any value other than an address for Leben Japan to ship to and someone to collect a commission!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, that's the problem. It would be one thing if the US Importer had set up a great nationwide dealer network. But that doesn't seem to be the case to me. For a company to tell a Chicagoan that to buy a product he has to call a dealer in Cleveland...not a great situation. Leben should be concerned about that.


----------



## dminches

Rob, it sounds like you are putting in your application to be the Chicago dealer.  Think of the discounts you would get on products 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah buddy! Just need to rent me a store


----------



## Wedge

I have commercial property if your interested.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'll add that I really hate the dealer in the tri-state area.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah buddy! Just need to rent me a store


----------



## vert

I think it's pretty clear how everyone feels about the dealers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  One thing I think they're right about is service. If you have a Japanese unit that needs service/parts, you're pretty much screwed. I had a unit that was still under warranty. I contacted Price Japan and gave them the original owner's info. Of course, in the Japanese way, instead of just saying no, they didn't reply. I assume it's because I'm not the original owner? I'll never know. I probably would have never shipped it over there anyway, with the shipping costs involved. But it's made me think twice about purchasing another Japanese unit.


----------



## googleli

Skylab, have you tried the E.A.R. HP4 headphone amp? How does it compare to the Leben?


----------



## Skylab

Sadly, I have not. Always wanted to hear one, but never had the chance.


----------



## googleli

There is a used one in a local store here, priced almost exactly the same as a brand new Leben CS300XS. Do you think it is worth buying? Its small size would allow it to squeeze onto the upper deck of my Solidsteel 6.2 rack. On the other hand I am more and more inclined to get the SR009 eventually, which means I will need yet another amp. Hard choices, not only in monetary terms but also in terms of space...


----------



## Skylab

I've heard it is wonderful, but have never heard it myself, so I have no idea if it's worth it


----------



## songlove

this is the best amp with HE-6 I heard.....but looks it is hard to find one..


----------



## googleli

In preparation for the arrival of the Esoteric K-01, I purchased the Siltech Power Cable - G07 Silver Gold Ruby Hill II, which is the current flagship power cable of Siltech. I used the Siltech SPX800 Silver Gold G7 cable for my Esoteric D-07 so I decided to go for the flagship.
   
  I need to run it in with something utilizing a high current. Originally I wanted to use it on my Plasma TV just to run in,  but the Furutech plug on the cable can't fit. So I decided to use the Leben to run it in, although obviously I can't run in 24 hours a day coz it is a tube amp.
   
  Immediately I noticed a great difference in terms of details and treble details. It does not affect tonality as much as the tubes, but it presents a big improvement in terms of nits and sound density. Before this I was using a Burmester power cable for the Leben. Although it was quite good in terms of 3D soundstaging it is not even close to the Siltech flagship power cable. The bass is also tighter with the Siltech cable.
   
  I won't be using this cable for the Leben eventually, since this cable's cost is in itself about the same price as a brand new unit of the Leben CS300XS, but I just want to point out that a good power cable does wonder to the Leben, and the potential of the Leben is just phenomenal given its price.


----------



## Skylab

Very interesting. I am using a Bolder Cable power cord on my Leben, which is about as fancy as I ever get for power cords. But the Leben is one amp I might be willing to ante up a little more for, although nowhere near to that level - that's pretty rarified air!


----------



## Anders

Has someone removed the shields to the EL84 sockets? It is easy to unscrew but halfway there was a sound that could be from a bolt dropping down. Could be dangerous with loose bolts inside the amp (shorts!). I haven't checked because then I have to open the amp. The amp works as it should although there may be two loose bolts within.
   
  The idea of removing the shields is to free space for tube adapters.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I haven't removed them but yes, those shields are really tight around the Sovtek tubes--almost too snug in my opinion. Here's a picture my Leben with the bottom cover removed. I wonder which screws fell out.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





> but I just want to point out that a good power cable does wonder to the Leben, and the potential of the Leben is just phenomenal given its price.


 
  Haven't tried an aftermarket power cable with a 100v Leben, but I will definitely be using one for my 120v unit. I used a Mojo Audio power cord on a Cary Xciter amp, and I couldn't go back to the stock cord.


----------



## Torero

Is the CS300XS are a great amplifier for the HD800 headphones? I would like your opinions
   
  Thanks.


----------



## vert

Wouldn't it be cool if Leben came out with a headphone only amp?


----------



## RedBull

Some people comment Leben pairs very well with HD800, I haven't tried myself, but it works very very good with the same impedance HD650.


----------



## Skylab

I think the HD800 sound very good on the CS300XS, myself, although I'm sure that surprises no one


----------



## jovi007

It works very well on my hd800 and t1 ~


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





torero said:


> Is the CS300XS are a great amplifier for the HD800 headphones? I would like your opinions
> 
> Thanks.


 


  YES!
   
  The slight sibilance that I find on some recordings is tamed when pairing this headphone with a Leben.


----------



## Pingvin

Congrats Steve. I've been enjoying my CS600 for a year now, and it's really opened my ears to what audio reproduction should be about. In fact, I'm basically rebuilding a new system around the Leben.
   
  Any Head-fiers in the Washington DC area who'd like to hear a CS600? I'd like to try some high-end phones -- I'd especially like to hear the LCD2s -- and hopefully some of you with such phones in the area would be curious to hear the Leben. I have a range of power tubes to play with: SED EL34, Genelex KT77, Russian NOS 6P3S-e, Sovtek 5881.
   
  Cheers,
  Pingvin


----------



## tme110

THere is a DC area headfi meeting coming up next month, is there any way you could bring the 600?  I'd love to hear it.
  
  Quote: 





pingvin said:


> Congrats Steve. I've been enjoying my CS600 for a year now, and it's really opened my ears to what audio reproduction should be about. In fact, I'm basically rebuilding a new system around the Leben.
> 
> Any Head-fiers in the Washington DC area who'd like to hear a CS600? I'd like to try some high-end phones -- I'd especially like to hear the LCD2s -- and hopefully some of you with such phones in the area would be curious to hear the Leben. I have a range of power tubes to play with: SED EL34, Genelex KT77, Russian NOS 6P3S-e, Sovtek 5881.
> 
> ...


----------



## googleli

Yesterday a super High end audiophile friend visited me for the K01. He has over $100K worth of gear and has heard numerous setups of more than that, some close to a million. He had some very good impressions of the K01, but he was also impressed by the Leben. We did not try any headphones, but just listening from the speakers out. He told me that with my tubes on, the CS300XS is "the best 15w output one can get". He was also impressed how that 15w could drive my Monitor Ausio floor standing speakers so well. Only with some super large scale orchestral music like Strauss' "Also sprach Zarathustra" would the bass became a bit muddy because of insufficient power. With jazz and vocal it is more than enough for my speakers and sounded really good so he said. I think this goes a long way to say how good the Leben is, given his experience with high end gear. Now I am considering the CS600 which would definitely have sufficient power for my speakers and what's more, it has pre amp bypass which would allow me to use it as power amp only when I connect it through my AV amp as front speakers amplifier.


----------



## Skylab

Nice googleli! Thanks for sharing that. The Leben never fails to impress me - glad it impressed your high end friend!


----------



## Wedge

Yeah I had a friend over yesterday as well, funny enough, anyways he was extremely impressed with the Leben as well.  I guess he's not super high end, but he designs and builds all of his own amps.


----------



## Wedge

Rob, have you tried your Leben with the Havana at all?  Also what source are you using with the Leben.  Last question, with the LCD-2 what do you keep the volume dial at for your optimal listening level?


----------



## dminches

I will answer the last one with my LCD-2s.  I can't really get past 9 o'clock or it gets too loud.


----------



## Skylab

Yep, same as with David, I'm right at about 9:00.  I actually have not used the Havana with the Leben.  While I have tested the Leben with my high-end sources on several occasions, my normal everyday use of it is with an RWA iMod iPod and ALo VCap douck as source, and driving Sony R10's.  That's my bedside rig - no room for a bigger source.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

Different topic, if I may... What kind of tube life have you folks been seeing on the Leben?
   
  Been a solid state guy all my life, and the thought of having to periodically replace tubes -- rather expensive ones at that (for NOS upgrade) -- has been holding me back from pulling the trigger on the CS300XS (for a year+). So I'd like to ask for your input.
   
  I've looked at the general discussion threads on this topic, but it seems that there are many parameters that can affect the lifespan. This is why I'm looking to get a better idea for the Leben specifically. Also, I was wondering if people tend to remove the top cover: unlike most other tube amps I've looked at, the Leben does not leave the tubes exposed to the open air. So I expect that they run hotter than they might otherwise, shortening tube life at the same time.
   
  Apart from tube concerns, the Leben is a perfect fit for my intended application: desktop amp + headphone amp in one, with the sonics I'm looking for. I'd say that abt half the time I'll be listening on speakers (Harbeth P3-ESR) and the other half on headphones (ATH-W5000). Typically shorter listening periods during the week (<= 1 hr/day), couple hours at a time on the weekend, with abt 10 hrs/week total.
   
  Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Skylab

You should expect at least 5,000 hours from NOS/New production (meaning not "used") tubes - so ay 10 hrs/week, you could use them about 10 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And they might last longer than that.  My uncle has a Scott amp that used 12AX7/EL84 tubes - and they lasted 30 years!  Not sure what his weekly usage was, but he did listen to music regularly.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

Thanks Skylab, that's re-assuring. Would you advise buying a set of backup tubes at abt the same time then? (With the current popularity of NOS tubes, who knows what will be left in 10 years.)
   
  Also, I'd like to return to the question of the cover. Do you think it makes much difference whether it's on or off? I don't have any experience with tubes and enclosures. Or with the Leben: perhaps its tube temps remain in a perfectly acceptable range with the cover on, so removing it would not make much of a difference to tube life. What I do know is that heat is a number one killer of electronics. And I have seen significant temperature drops when removing the cover of a passively cooled computer. Not sure if that is a meaningful analogy though.


----------



## Skylab

I have multiple sets of tubes, but only because I want lots of NOS tubes - there are current production tubes available for the Leben.  So there are lots of options.
   
  I never take the top off.  Not an issue, IMO.  Plenty of ventilation.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





intothemusic2 said:


> Thanks Skylab, that's re-assuring. Would you advise buying a set of backup tubes at abt the same time then? (With the current popularity of NOS tubes, who knows what will be left in 10 years.)
> 
> Also, I'd like to return to the question of the cover. Do you think it makes much difference whether it's on or off? I don't have any experience with tubes and enclosures. Or with the Leben: perhaps its tube temps remain in a perfectly acceptable range with the cover on, so removing it would not make much of a difference to tube life. What I do know is that heat is a number one killer of electronics. And I have seen significant temperature drops when removing the cover of a passively cooled computer. Not sure if that is a meaningful analogy though.


 
  I leave the cover of my Leben on. Just yesterday I was reaching over the amp and noticed how hot the airflow was coming from the top of the amp. Which would lead me to believe that the top cover is well-vented for good airflow to enter from the bottom of the amp to keep the tubes within proper operating temps. The bottom of the amp has an ample amount vents as well for air to enter. When I visited the Leben Showroom in San Francisco, the cover of his Leben amp was off. I actually see no harm in leaving the cover off unless you have animals or small curious children whose quisitive fingers you may want to protect. Also the lid, if remained on, will limit the amount of dust that may want to alight on the innards.


----------



## dminches

The unit cover gets pretty warm to the touch after being on for a short time.  The ventilation could be improved by keeping the cover off, but you do risk something falling inside and doing damage.  Thus, I keep it on.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, and I would also be worried about excessive dust build-up if you just left it off all the time.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

Understood. Perhaps I could just leave the top cover on but unscrewed to keep the dust out, and then remove it only when the unit is turned on. (Fortunately, I don't have to worry abt anything else getting in there.) This might deserve some experimentation, to compare the temperature with lid on vs lid off.
   
  I'm grateful for your insights: things that I thought might be show-stoppers are starting to look like non-issues now.


----------



## dminches

The other thing you would need to know is what operating temperature the unit is designed to run in. Generally one likes to dissipate heat, but if Leben did their work correctly they may have assumed one would operate the unit with the cover on which would set the temperature.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

Yes, I see what you mean -- the change in temperature might change the sound too.


----------



## InnerSpace

IME like Clayton said the venting is as much about the bottom holes as the top holes.  I put some stick-on felt pads on the feet that raise the amp about a half-inch off the shelf, which I feel helps the airflow a lot.
   
  Tube life should be fine.  Back in the day I once saw EL84s in an amp at a TV station that had been running - twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week - for 21 _years_.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

I like this idea.
   
  I have a stand for my laptop that serves the same purpose: it elevates the base to improve airflow. I can attest that it works -- the fan kicks up much less frequently than when I sit the laptop on a flat surface. I'd never thought abt doing this for a piece of audio gear, but it makes sense now that you suggest it.
   
  Thanks folks.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

I've got another question... How much granularity is there for controlling the headphone volume using the CS300XS' stepped dial?

 From what I've read (going from memory here...), it seems that most Leben users tend to keep the volume control down in the bottom third of the dial (or under ~10 o'clock). How many steps does it take to go from a little too soft to one step above your "normal" listening level (however you define "normal")?

 I'm very sensitive to volume levels, and especially don't like loud volumes while wearing headphones. I also have high efficiency, closed-back headphones (AT W5000). This means that there is usually a very narrow range of volumes that I find acceptable for headphone listening, and if I can't adjust it to within that range, I stop listening pretty quickly. (This is a major problem with my current setup -- one step is too soft and the next step can be too loud -- which is why I'm changing it.) So I'm very interested to know how the Leben behaves in this area.

 Thanks again.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





intothemusic2 said:


> I've got another question... How much granularity is there for controlling the headphone volume using the CS300XS' stepped dial?
> 
> From what I've read (going from memory here...), it seems that most Leben users tend to keep the volume control down in the bottom third of the dial (or under ~10 o'clock). How many steps does it take to go from a little too soft to one step above your "normal" listening level (however you define "normal")?
> 
> ...


 
  The Leben uses a Blue Velvet pot, it is not a stepped attenuator; although the volume control has detents along its volume range, you can adjust the volume level to anywhere between the detents if you wish--I do it all the time when I remember. Sometimes I forget you can do that, though.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

A continuously variable pot will definitely help. I'm still wondering though how much turn-of-the-dial it takes to go from soft to a bit too loud. Is it several clicks, a couple of clicks, or less than one? I know there will be some variability here -- depending on phones, source, personal comfort -- but I'd like to get a general idea of what others are experiencing.
   
  In my current setup it is one click or less, and the detents are not far enough apart for the in-between position to be used. So the phones end up unused most of the time.


----------



## Pingvin

Thanks for pointing me to that. I doubt that I would be able to stay for the whole meet, but I will try. Hopefully someone will let me use their source as well -- the 600 is a big heavy lump by itself


----------



## googleli

You can set your volume in between clicks with no prob.
  
  Quote: 





intothemusic2 said:


> A continuously variable pot will definitely help. I'm still wondering though how much turn-of-the-dial it takes to go from soft to a bit too loud. Is it several clicks, a couple of clicks, or less than one? I know there will be some variability here -- depending on phones, source, personal comfort -- but I'd like to get a general idea of what others are experiencing.
> 
> In my current setup it is one click or less, and the detents are not far enough apart for the in-between position to be used. So the phones end up unused most of the time.


----------



## IntoTheMusic2

The conclusion I'm drawing is that, even though the volume ramps up rather quickly, it's not really an issue because you can set the volume at any point on the dial (i.e. you're not limited to just the notched positions).
   
  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





googleli said:


> You can set your volume in between clicks with no prob.






   
   
  I think technically that's very bad for the amp and will made the sound abnormal.
   
  With high end audio equipments, the attenuator usually will use stepped or series resistance design, which out perform the "continuously variable pot" by far from every aspect, and cost much more to build. This is important for the attenuator directly connect to you monitor and limits the sq of the whole system. The higher end will offer  more steps, thus shorter intervals.
   
  My best suggestion to the stepped attenuator volume issue is to just get use to it.


----------



## Wedge

I don't think its a stepped attenuator in the Leben.  I believe its a pot, according to other folks here it is an Alps Blue Velvet, that has been modified to feel like a stepped attenuator.


----------



## Torero

What are the better EL84 tubes?


----------



## Skylab

I like the Sylvania black plate 6BQ5 andnthe Philips Holland-made EL84 very much in my Leben. but the GE grey plate 6BQ5 are also very good I found, and a little cheaper and easier to get.


----------



## Wedge

I also like the Mullard EL84s.


----------



## googleli

Can I connect the "Tape Monitor Out" of the Leben to a power amplifier and use the Leben as a pre-amp? Many thanks.


----------



## googleli

If I connect the Leben tape out to the Stax SRM 727ii line in, would the signal still go through the Leben's preamplifier stage?


----------



## Wedge

No, the tape out is not a preamp out, so it will be line level with no volume control.


----------



## googleli

wedge said:


> No, the tape out is not a preamp out, so it will be line level with no volume control.




Thanks. Both my Stax amp and the source (Esoteric K01) have volume control (these volumes can be turned on and off) so I can use either of them to control volume. Question is more whether using the tape out will have the signal going through the 12AX7s to give me the tonality of the preamplifier stage before it is output to the Stax amp?


----------



## Wedge

I do not think it goes through the tubes.  But someone with more knowledge may want to answer.
  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> Thanks. Both my Stax amp and the source (Esoteric K01) have volume control (these volumes can be turned on and off) so I can use either of them to control volume. Question is more whether using the tube out will have the signal going through the 12AX7s to give me the tonality of the preamplifier stage before it is output to the Stax amp?


----------



## Clayton SF

It does not go through the preamp section of the Leben because even with the Leben OFF the signal is passed through the tape out (Recording Out).


----------



## marchmadness

Anyone interested in a Leben CS300XS (100V)?  I purchased the Leben off Audiogon at the end of April.  I am only selling because I have a chance to pick a 120V version soon.  I am new to the forum and was unable to post an ad, sorry.  I believe the seller frequents this forum, although I don't know his handle. 
   
  It's in good condition (couple scratches) and will come with a step-down voltage converter to be used in the U.S.
   
  Please PM me if you are interested and I will shoot you some pictures.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Davemtl

Hi,
   
  Is it still available?
   
  Thanks.
   
  D.


----------



## TruBrew

Well I am the proud new owner of a Leben CS300XS. Thank you Skylab for deciding you don't have room for two. It is the greatest thing ever. I don't have anything to compair it too, so that may be an unfair statement, but I am guessing it is still close to the truth. My other amp, a Pioneer SX-950, has been in the shop for I think over a month now. My tech did something to his leg and ended up in the hospital. The shop didn't give me all the details.
   
  Anyway, it is nice to have an alternative to my SRM-T1/SR-507 setup. It is nice but way too bright. I would sell it, but it does wonders with my Smyth Realiser. I can't wait to get the Pioneer back so I can see how they stack up.


----------



## Skylab

Glad you're enjoying it! Sure is a nice amp! I love it, and would never want to be without one. But I did decide that having two was a bit decedent


----------



## TruBrew

Now I am just waiting for my LCD-2's Q-Audio cable to come back in, and it will be complete. There was a slight problem with it, but Steve is amazing and is handling it better than I could have expected. 
   
  I finally have very little desire to upgrade anything. I would be lying if I said I had no desire for more gear, but now its just for fun.
   
  I may have to take a que from Afrikane and put custom wood panels on my Leben. I have a friend who does woodworking, maybe I can convince him to do something for me. Don't get me wrong, I think its a nice looking amp, but  Afrikane's is nothing short of breathtaking. Don't worry, I won't use the same wood.
   
  I had another idea, but I am not going to be the first one to try. Since I have read the 300 is not stepped, is it possible to sand down the divits in the knob so it rotates smoothly.


----------



## Skylab

I would totally have done new side panels if I had the right tools. Something thicker, and in Rosewood, would be killer


----------



## TruBrew

who doesn't love Rosewood.


----------



## RedBull

Hello Leben owners, I think I have channel imbalance with my Leben when I compared to my Lehmann.  The vocal always shifted to the left, which is dead center with my BCL.  I use the Balancer, but I think the sound is not as nice as if I leave it in at the center, I don't know, maybe just placebo, you know, maybe I keep thinking the Balancer is not dead center, is it make sense?
   
  Do you think it's time for me to change my tubes?  or should I just use my Balancer?  I'm using Sovtek EL84 and GE 5751 now.
   
  And I find the vocal has a little bit of shrillness compared to BCL, is Sovtek the culprit?


----------



## Clayton SF

Try swapping the GE 5751 to see if the balance switches sides as well. I do find the Sovtek borders shrillness (and slightly dry) over Siemens. I am using Sovtek at the moment. Hoarding Siemens for future use.


----------



## RedBull

Ok, I will swap tubes both 5751 and EL84 these few days and report back.


----------



## dminches

Make sure you do them one set at a time so you can isolate which tubes (power or driver) are the issue.


----------



## RedBull

I just swapped the 5751, channel imbalance is still there, then it would be the EL84 maybe.
  Strange thing is that my 'supposedly' 5751 doesn't have any '5751' number on it and it look very new, but GE logo is there.  Now I'm not sure is it really 5751?   if not, what is that?


----------



## Skylab

Tubes can lose the number designation but US tubes all had the tube type etched rather than painted so it almost always survives. You don't see the tube type etched toward the top?


----------



## RedBull

Rob, dminches, I don't see anything other than GE logo and  ->
   
   
            _XY _
_          188.5_ 
   
  Green color.
   
  In the manual, it says it is a GE 5751 and Mullard EL84, but then it also mentioned mine is CS300X, although mine is clearly CS300XS.
  For the EL84 I'm sure it is printed as Sovtek.
   
  I have swapped the EL84 like this:  AB-CD to CD-AB, full pair swap, the result is still the same, I find the soundstage positioning is weird if I play with the Balancer.  Do you guys use the Balancer at all?
   
  Is it worth to swap to AD-CB? I mean swap single tube to single tube.


----------



## Skylab

I would not think you would need to swap the tubes more than you have. Sounds like some other issue. Is the situation the same with all of your headphones?


----------



## dminches

I agree with Rob.  It seems like there is another issue.  I never use my balancer.  In fact, the only things I ever touch on the Leben is the volume control and the spreaker/phones switch.


----------



## RedBull

Good idea, ... as weird as it sounds, it is normal with my HD650 and I almost can say it sounds nicer with HD650 than with LCD-2.
  Vocal sounds nicer, more open and more weight.
   
  Rob, you sounds like you encounter this issue before with one of the dozens of your amp?
   
  Wait, after observing about 5 mins, I realize it's still the same, the left side is louder than the right side  
   
  Maybe I'll swap the RCA connections, cable etc.


----------



## Skylab

Well, at the risk of sounding like a lunatic...

Headphone imaging is an odd thing. It's not like speaker imaging. There have been many times when I have convinced myself that the was something wrong with any given amp I was using at the time...or the headphones...because I thought the soundstage was skewed. What I have come to realize over the years is that soundstage fluctuates wildly with different recordings, and that if you want to assure yourself that there is no issue, you have to control variables. 

One thing I used for this is that I only test for how well centered the image is on headphones using MONO recordings. Those should be perfectly centered. I use the mono version of Johnny Hartmann and John Coletrane's "They Say it's Wonderful". That should be exactly in the middle.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Good idea, ... as weird as it sounds, it is normal with my HD650 and I almost can say it sounds nicer with HD650 than with LCD-2.
> Vocal sounds nicer, more open and more weight.
> 
> Rob, you sounds like you encounter this issue before with one of the dozens of your amp?


 
  This may be totally unrelated but it happens with me and my HD650 and DT990 600 ohms. Because my hearing isn't the same for both ears (unfortunately). I mean it's very close but my right ear picks up frequencies slightly higher than my left. I can tell this with symphony triangles and tambourines off in the distance--one ear picks up the nuances and shimmering sound of those instruments and the other (left ear) picks up just the striking of the instrument making the shimmer of the tambourine sound more like the closing of a high-hat from a drum kit.
   
  So the conclusion is (for me at least), since the HD650 aren't as detailed as the DT990, the HD650 sound a bit off balance compared to the 990. I think the 990 frequency extension compensates for my slightly dulled hearing in my left ear. The same thing happens to the same ears when I switch the L/R cups on my ears.
   
  So it's all in my head.


----------



## Torero

http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en
   
  Are there some kind of noise or hum audibly when Leben CS300x are used with the HD800 or others transparent headphones?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





torero said:


> http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en
> Are there some kind of noise or hum audibly when Leben CS300x are used with the HD800 or others transparent headphones?


 

 An absolutely fantastic article. Thank you, Torero.


----------



## RedBull

I swapped RCA cables, RCA port from my NFB-2 (cos I request to change the ACSS to RCA), but still the same.
   
  Hmm, I guess I have to use the Balancer then.  I didn't have problem before with Darkvoice 337 because it was dual mono, so I have to adjust left-right separately anyway.
  How often do you have to use Balancer with your amps?
   
  I'll try mono next time, sounds like easier to set perfectly center soundstage.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> This may be totally unrelated but it happens with me and my HD650 and DT990 600 ohms. Because my hearing isn't the same for both ears (unfortunately). I mean it's very close but my right ear picks up frequencies slightly higher than my left. I can tell this with symphony triangles and tambourines off in the distance--one ear picks up the nuances and shimmering sound of those instruments and the other (left ear) picks up just the striking of the instrument making the shimmer of the tambourine sound more like the closing of a high-hat from a drum kit.
> 
> So the conclusion is (for me at least), since the HD650 aren't as detailed as the DT990, the HD650 sound a bit off balance compared to the 990. I think the 990 frequency extension compensates for my slightly dulled hearing in my left ear. The same thing happens to the same ears when I switch the L/R cups on my ears.
> 
> So it's all in my head.


 
   
  It make sense, maybe my left ear is more sensitive to certain to certain frequency.  I notice I always pick up phone with left ear, I just feel it more clearer than my right ear.
   
  Quote:


torero said:


> http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en
> 
> Are there some kind of noise or hum audibly when Leben CS300x are used with the HD800 or others transparent headphones?


 

 Nope, no hum with my LCD-2 and HD650, although I heard a very slightly buzz with the shop's Leben when no music is playing.


----------



## Clayton SF

My Leben has always had a slight hum.


----------



## Skylab

My first one (a Japan 100V model) did as well.  My second two did not unless I had my awful kitchen dimmers on...


----------



## dminches

I can picture it now - Rob is in his Leben listening room yelling down to the kids "turn up the lights!"


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I can picture it now - Rob is in his Leben listening room yelling down to the kids "turn up the lights!"


 


  I actually begged my wife to let me rip out the kitchen dimmers...to no avail...


----------



## dminches

Are there any dimmer systems that do not causes similar problems?


----------



## Clayton SF

The San Francisco neighborhood I live in must be the den of hum-inducing gremlins for specific amps. Although my Leben and WA22 hum, the rest of my amps are dead silent. The quietest of all are the Decware amps. (How can an amp be quieter than quiet?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -- that word looks funny when you look at it too long.)


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Are there any dimmer systems that do not causes similar problems?


 

 Unfortunately, according to my electrician, no.  And even plugged into a power line filter, the problem persists.  But it isn't just the Leben at all.  My subwoofers buzz.  I can hear a buzz through speakers in either of my speaker rigs.  Turn the dimmers off - all is well.  And this is even on my main hi-fi, which has its own dedicated 20A home-run circuit!
   

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The San Francisco neighborhood I live in must be the den of hum-inducing gremlins for specific amps. Although my Leben and WA22 hum, the rest of my amps are dead silent. The quietest of all are the Decware amps. (How can an amp be quieter than quiet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My WA22 hums a little, too, even without the dimmers.  Like with all tube amps, this is more audible with high-sensitivity/efficiency headphones.  With the LCD-2 or HE-6, not audible at all.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The San Francisco neighborhood I live in must be the den of hum-inducing gremlins for specific amps. Although my Leben and WA22 hum, the rest of my amps are dead silent. The quietest of all are the Decware amps. (How can an amp be quieter than quiet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Do you mind to share a bit how the Leben sounds different with the WA22, this question also applies for Rob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and other who may have WA22.
  My combination of NFB-2 + Acrolink RCA + Leben + LCD-2 proven to be a little too lush to a level of too much weight at the vocal.
  If I skip the NFB-2 and use my CDP DAC directly, the sound is more leaner, but to the expense of slightly more grain.
  I'm curious how WA22 sound different from the Leben, WA22 look very nice too. 
  I find Leben has a little bit of upper mid emphasize compared to my BCL, which is very flat, but timbre and attack is more realistic on the Leben.
   
  What DAC do you guys use with your Leben?
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unfortunately, according to my electrician, no.  And even plugged into a power line filter, the problem persists.  But it isn't just the Leben at all.  My subwoofers buzz.  I can hear a buzz through speakers in either of my speaker rigs.  Turn the dimmers off - all is well.  And this is even on my main hi-fi, which has its own dedicated 20A home-run circuit!
> 
> My WA22 hums a little, too, even without the dimmers.  Like with all tube amps, this is more audible with high-sensitivity/efficiency headphones.  With the LCD-2 or HE-6, not audible at all.


 

 I'm about to say you have dedicated audio powerline but yet you still have hum.  Man! this dimmer is very powerful!  Luckily I don't have any dimmer around.


----------



## Wedge

I thought that the Leben was a little less lush than the WA-22, I tried it with both the 5998s and 7236.  I also tried a few different 6SN7s.  I like the WA-22, with the LCD-2, but this combo was a little much as opposed to the Leben.  Personally I thought the Leben was fantastic with the LCD-2.  I use a PS Audio DLIII as my DAC.  Unfortuantely, I kinda have to go by memory since I sold my WA-22, so I guess take this for what its worth, an opinion.
   
  Cheers


----------



## dminches

Wedge, what is your definition of "lush?"


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


wedge said:


> I thought that the Leben was a little less lush than the WA-22, I tried it with both the 5998s and 7236.  I also tried a few different 6SN7s.  I like the WA-22, with the LCD-2, but this combo was a little much as opposed to the Leben.  Personally I thought the Leben was fantastic with the LCD-2.  I use a PS Audio DLIII as my DAC.  Unfortuantely, I kinda have to go by memory since I sold my WA-22, so I guess take this for what its worth, an opinion.
> 
> Cheers


 
   
  Thanks for your comparison, that helps me not to buy WA-22, you just saved my wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I was very intrigue with the look and 2 watt output with 7236, but now maybe I give it a missed.
  Seems like is is quite consistent with most of Woo 'house sound'.  I don't want an amp that's more lush than the Leben.
  More comment on this comparison welcome.
  
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Wedge, what is your definition of "lush?"


 

 To me, lush is something like smoothening of the sound, with proper weight, no sharp edges, but the detail is there, organic, more like watching the singer in a night club under smooth lightning, less accurate but more romantic, more pleasing to see, rather than under a bright spotlight, lean, clean, more accurate but more sharp edges. 
  If that makes sense at all  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  that's my genuine expression from the heart.


----------



## RedBull

*Definition from Headroom*
   
*Lush*
 Usually attributed to vacuum tube audio gear which produces a relatively large amount of even-order harmonic distortion. This type of distortion is often plesant to the ear, and produces a rich, warm, ambiance to the sound.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Do you mind to share a bit how the Leben sounds different with the WA22, this question also applies for Rob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Leben with stock tubes, PS Audio DLIII + Cullen Mods IV, Bren1 Vida IC interconnects, Emotiva ERC-1 (link is to the ERC-2). Beyers DT990 600 ohms.
  WA22 with CV1863, CV2987, RCA 6SN7 cleartops, Cambridge Audio DacMagic, Bren1 Vida IC interconnects, Marantz CD 67SE. (Same headphones.)
   
  The Leben is very detailed and so revealing that I though tubes were a little grainy but when I played the new Thomas Dybdal--Songs (incredible acoustic guitar and separation of channels--very separated in a aural-stimulating way) on the WA22 rig it was the recording and not the tubes. The bass is full but not bloated and the mids are wonderful. Not recessed or too forward (what's the word?--neutral?). Anyway the SQ is lovely.
   
  The WA22 was slightly brighter with and the bass not as pronounced as the Leben--weird. Perhaps it's the rectifier? The CV1863, a 1940s tube--pretty to look at and presents a warmer bass sound than the Leben but the highs are a bit to bright with these hp. I wouldn't discount the WA22 because of my combo of tubes. I'm sort of burnt out on trying to find the right tubes so I'm settling in on enjoying the music--no matter the faults between the two, these amps scream way past anything I would put up with like iPods etc. So it's enjoyment time and not Holy Grail time.
   
  The one amp I'm pretty surprised with is the Musical Fidelity X-CAN V8p. It's between the WA22 and Leben and it's a hybrid and although slightly less rich in its sq it has a little more punch in the lower register. It's a great amp. IMO.


----------



## Skylab

I find the WA22, regardless of the tubes I have tried, to be a little warmer and more romantic sounding than the Leben. The Leben is a pretty neutral amp, with just a very slight lean toward the euphonic. The WA22 is very firmly in the lush camp, IMO. Works better, for me, with the HD-800 than with the LCD-2, as a result. In fact I prefer the Decware Mini-Torii for the LCD-2 over the WA-22, but for the HD-800 the WA22 is my top choice of amps. Leben still rules the roost for the LCD-2 and for the Sony R-10, though.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unfortunately, according to my electrician, no.  And even plugged into a power line filter, the problem persists.  But it isn't just the Leben at all.  My subwoofers buzz.  I can hear a buzz through speakers in either of my speaker rigs.  Turn the dimmers off - all is well.  And this is even on my main hi-fi, which has its own dedicated 20A home-run circuit!


 

 Rob, this is a lark but you might try special variable wattage lightbulbs that are made for rural areas with unstable power. It solved the problem of buzzing bulbs with my dimmers in a home I used to live in. I am not sure if this could possibly have any effect on amps. (Is it the dimmer that is the problem or the dimmer + bulb combination?) It might be worth a try. Hardware stores have these bulbs (in Toronto anyway).


----------



## Skylab

Worth a shot! Thanks.


----------



## BK_856er

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Worth a shot! Thanks.


 


 Dimmers are notorious for generating RF noise and apparently some models are worse than others.  Maybe your audio equipment is picking this up?  You can use a portable AM radio tuned between stations to sniff them out and compare against other devices (wall warts, etc.) to locate an offender.  I did this a few years ago trying to figure out a funky DSL line.  Maybe worth a shot?


----------



## Skylab

It's not RF. It's on the power line itself.


----------



## googleli

I find my Leben will emit some electrostatic hiss through my speakers when my plasma tv is turned on, but not through headphones. Pretty sure it is the Leben because I tried connecting the same speakers and speaker cables to another amp and no hiss. Anyone experienced that?


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Wedge, what is your definition of "lush?"


 

 A rich, warm, smooth, euphonic, etc.  Sound is lush to me.  I like some amount of lush, say like the Leben, but I don't like too much, the WA-22 was closer to the edge of too much for me than I though the Leben was.  I find it hard to define audiophile terms.  
   
  Pretty much my opinion of the comparison between Leben and WA-22 mirrors, Robs.  I would agree the Leben is closer to neutral for sure, but it leans in the euphonic side of things.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Leben with stock tubes, PS Audio DLIII + Cullen Mods IV, Bren1 Vida IC interconnects, Emotiva ERC-1 (link is to the ERC-2). Beyers DT990 600 ohms.
> WA22 with CV1863, CV2987, RCA 6SN7 cleartops, Cambridge Audio DacMagic, Bren1 Vida IC interconnects, Marantz CD 67SE. (Same headphones.)
> 
> The Leben is very detailed and so revealing that I though tubes were a little grainy but when I played the new Thomas Dybdal--Songs (incredible acoustic guitar and separation of channels--very separated in a aural-stimulating way) on the WA22 rig it was the recording and not the tubes. The bass is full but not bloated and the mids are wonderful. Not recessed or too forward (what's the word?--neutral?). Anyway the SQ is lovely.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the impression Clayton, very useful.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I find the WA22, regardless of the tubes I have tried, to be a little warmer and more romantic sounding than the Leben. The Leben is a pretty neutral amp, with just a very slight lean toward the euphonic. The WA22 is very firmly in the lush camp, IMO. Works better, for me, with the HD-800 than with the LCD-2, as a result. In fact I prefer the Decware Mini-Torii for the LCD-2 over the WA-22, but for the HD-800 the WA22 is my top choice of amps. Leben still rules the roost for the LCD-2 and for the Sony R-10, though.


 
   
  Thanks Rob, I agree Leben is a little  euphonic amp with a little emphasize on the upper mid, but not too much, overall tonality is very enjoyable.
   
  From your experience, is tube amp tendency to slightly having channel imbalance?  cos my DV337 last time also I have to dial one channel louder than the other channel. 
  Is it due to the more 'traditional', purist design of the amp?


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





wedge said:


> A rich, warm, smooth, euphonic, etc.  Sound is lush to me.  I like some amount of lush, say like the Leben, but I don't like too much, the WA-22 was closer to the edge of too much for me than I though the Leben was.  I find it hard to define audiophile terms.
> 
> Pretty much my opinion of the comparison between Leben and WA-22 mirrors, Robs.  I would agree the Leben is closer to neutral for sure, but it leans in the euphonic side of things.


 

 That's why I have Lehmann BCL, when I'm in the mood of dead neutral, flat, relax, smooth sound, I go with BCL, when I want to listen to a more exciting sound, I turn on my Leben


----------



## Skylab

redbull said:


> Thanks for the impression Clayton, very useful.
> 
> 
> Thanks Rob, I agree Leben is a little  euphonic amp with a little emphasize on the upper mid, but not too much, overall tonality is very enjoyable.
> ...




The pots on my DV337 were not calibrated with each other very closely, I didn't think, as they did always have visually different settings. But whether that was really a channel imbalance or not was impossible to say on the 337 with it's completely dual-mono design.


----------



## RedBull

Right, DV337 is dual mono, I always have to turn the left pot .5 hrs up 
   
  Do you think it is alright to just leave my Balancer always turn at around 2 o'clock position all the time, or about 60 degree to the right from Normal?
 I feel guilty do it this way.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Right, DV337 is dual mono, I always have to turn the left pot .5 hrs up
> 
> Do you think it is alright to just leave my Balancer always turn at around 2 o'clock position all the time, or about 60 degree to the right from Normal?
> I feel guilty do it this way.


 

 I'd feel slightly guilty too but after all, Mr. Taku Hyodo-_san_ included the Balancer in the Leben's design for a reason. So use it to your advantage and kick back and enjoy the music. Soon you'll forget about the whole deal until you have to adjust it again.


----------



## RedBull

That's very comforting Clayton 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , I agree Mr. Taku Hyodo-san must have provided the Balancer there for a reason, ok, I will just use it and enjoy, life is short to sweat small things.


----------



## TruBrew

I can't remember who first said the Leben was a pleasant smelling amp, but I do agree. It is the fist amp I have actively smelt, but I plan on doing it to all amps in the future. 
   
  I remember reading at one point that is is a bad idea to connect headphones to the speaker terminals in the back. I did not see that mentioned anywhere while reading through this thread. I think it was Skylab who said it somewhere in the the HE-6 thread. I don't currently own any cans I would want to hook up that way, but just wanted to clarify for any future use. What is the reason I should not do it, and does it apply to all headphones?


----------



## Wedge

A very high impedance mismatch could stress the trafos to overheat.


----------



## RedBull

As far as I remember, Skylab did mentioned that connecting HE-6 to the speaker terminal give best result, but not so good with LCD-2 as it increases noise floor.  Maybe he revise his statement Skylab will clarify.


----------



## Skylab

It SOUNDS good, but I was warned it might damage the output transformer over time, so I stopped doing it.


----------



## Torero

How long must i burn in the CS300x?


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


skylab said:


> It SOUNDS good, but I was warned it might damage the output transformer over time, so I stopped doing it.


 

 Just for my knowledge, do you know why is it?  I thought the speaker tap is designed to deliver 4 or 8 ohms and 50 ohms load should be easy peazy? no?


----------



## googleli

Tried using Mullards for both 12AX7s and EL84s today (both sets from the '50s). For acoustics, the combination sounds great, but for pop music, the bass sounds incredibly slow and a bit fat even on my Monitor Audio speakers. Sounds quite horrible on the already fat LCD2's (Rev 1) bloated bass range - so I switched back the 12AX7s to the Amperex Bugleboy (also 1950's) and everything is fine again. I also got the Sylvania 12AX7s and the pair sounds more balanced than with the Amperex on my speakers, but for the LCD2s, I prefer the Amperex due to LCD2's rolled off highs (again the Rev 1, so the same combination may not suit the Rev 2).
   
  Conclusion: in my experience the following combination is the best for LCD2 Rev 1:
   
  12AX7: Amperex Bugleboy Long Plate D-getter 1950's
   
  EL84:  Mullard 1950's - they are quite rare so get whatever you can as long as they are from 1950's.  
   
  FYI I also have and tried the following tubes - Sovtek 12AX7s and EL84s (stock tubes from Leben), Gold Lion EL84s, Mazda 12AX7s, Telefunken smooth plates, Sylvania 12AX7 and Brimars.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





torero said:


> How long must i burn in the CS300x?


 

 I thought 10-20 hours was plenty.
   


  Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> Just for my knowledge, do you know why is it?  I thought the speaker tap is designed to deliver 4 or 8 ohms and 50 ohms load should be easy peazy? no?


 

 Supposedly that is not ENOUGH of a load for the transformer.


----------



## Wedge

I really like using 5751s in my Leben.


----------



## Skylab

I've used exclusively 5751's for the driver tubes.


----------



## dminches

I have used 5751s exclusively because Rob told me to!


----------



## Wedge

Sylvania Gold Brand 3 Mica Grey Plates, as well as the Black Plates, have pretty much what I've been using in my Leben.  They have a real smooth, dynamic, extended sound to me.  I love them. I'm torn on the output tubes, I had Mullards in for a while, now I have Tungsram E84Ls in.  I have bounced back and forth between these and for a little while I had Sylvania 6BQ5s which were a tad less smooth, and little more neutral.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


skylab said:


> Supposedly that is not ENOUGH of a load for the transformer.


 

 Hmm, sorry, I'm an electronic noob, so the transformer can't release energy large enough, thus will damage the transformer, is that the correct analogy?


----------



## Skylab

I believe so, RedBull, but it was a concept I also had a hard time getting my arms around. It is an issue for sure related just to output transformers.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks Rob.


----------



## Sharklordy

Is this amp still the best for lcd2 rev2?


----------



## Clayton SF

There was some discussion at the following thread about a change in the Leben's design which affected how the Leben drives the LCD-2:
 Ordered Leben cs300xs (Arrived with photos) on page 8, post #111.


----------



## log0

Leben is considering releasing a CS-300B model SET stereo amplifier. Link below.
   
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=1729


----------



## RedBull

^ but no headphone amp?


----------



## log0

Yup, doesn't look like it will be an integrated. More along the lines of the 660P. If his amps are all push pull class AB and sound fantastic, I wonder what one of Mr. Hyodo's SET amps would sound like...


----------



## RedBull

Anyone knows if Leben CS-300XS is class AB or Class A?  I know it is push-pull, but Class A can be PP too.


----------



## RedBull

Anyone uses this http://aloaudio.com/miniwatt-headphone-adapter.html with Leben speaker out?
   

   
  How does it compare to the headphone out itself?


----------



## Skylab

I guess the question is, does it have impedance matching, or just do wiring conversion? The Leben needs an impedance matching network.


----------



## TruBrew

If it did impedance match, would it not drop the power output to about the same level as the front headphone out anyway? That seems more useful for an amp that has no headphone out in the first place.


----------



## saintpajamas

Has anyone compared cs300 with cs300x(s)? Is there a huge difference?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





saintpajamas said:


> Has anyone compared cs300 with cs300x(s)? Is there a huge difference?


 

 I did, and for headphones, there is no real difference at all - the difference between tube sets was more meaningful than the two models.  I did not try the comparison with speakers, though.


----------



## googleli

Since my LCD2 has been moved to office, the Leben is now solely used to drive my speakers, and it is doing a pretty amazing job. It has the highest c/p value in my chain of gears and headphones I bought in the past year.


----------



## saintpajamas

Thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

I just hit the <$100 headphones arena. I heard Deep Funk's in Amsterdam and was floored. The over-all lows have great wonderful impact. The mids are well-presented, and the highs, at this moment, are a bit grainy but that's because they are still new--only 2 hours of burn in. I got them for a portable system, which I do not yet have, so I am using them on the Leben and others. Nice nice nice.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


skylab said:


> I guess the question is, does it have impedance matching, or just do wiring conversion? The Leben needs an impedance matching network.


 

 Good advice, I haven't been able to find more details about this 'converter', I'll found out more.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just hit the <$100 headphones arena. I heard Deep Funk's in Amsterdam and was floored. The over-all lows have great wonderful impact. The mids are well-presented, and the highs, at this moment, are a bit grainy but that's because they are still new--only 2 hours of burn in. I got them for a portable system, which I do not yet have, so I am using them on the Leben and others. Nice nice nice.


 

 Interesting pairing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  what a lucky headphone.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> Interesting pairing
> 
> 
> ...


 
  A Sugar Daddy Amp for the K181 if I must say so myself. But guess what?: the K181 sounds incredible with the Woo 2. --But that's another amp, yes? Next up is the Beyerdynamic T50p if I can get ahold of one. If it doesn't sound good with a Leben, then perhaps it will never sound good--i think. Unless you pair it with a LF. --But then again, that's also another amp.


----------



## googleli

I tried my T5p on the Leben and the result was quite good. If it don't sound right always tube roll a bit - there always is a pair or quad of tubes which matches your headphone.


----------



## Sweden

That one of the biggest overkills I've seen
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just hit the <$100 headphones arena. I heard Deep Funk's in Amsterdam and was floored. The over-all lows have great wonderful impact. The mids are well-presented, and the highs, at this moment, are a bit grainy but that's because they are still new--only 2 hours of burn in. I got them for a portable system, which I do not yet have, so I am using them on the Leben and others. Nice nice nice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It SOUNDS good, but I was warned it might damage the output transformer over time, so I stopped doing it.


 


 Just get some 8 ohm resistors and hook them across the speaker out along with the headphones that will put the proper 8 Ohm load on the output transformer
  They will also lower the noise floor so you could try the LCD-2.
  Radio Shack has 8 ohm 20 watt non inductive resistors for under $3  part # 271-120


----------



## Skylab

For the LCD-2, there is no need to do that - the Leben's headphone out, which is derived from a 32 ohm secondary winding off the output transformer, works wonderfully. Only needed for the HE-6.


----------



## Torero

Has Anyone tried to compare between the new Genalex Lion EL84 tubes Vs some NOS El84 like Mullard, Sylvania, Amperex or Telefunken?
   
  My Leben already has 100 hours of break and I am thinking to change the tubes.
 It arrived with a quad of reissue Genalex Lion EL84 and pair of new producction Tung sol 12AX7.

 The true is that it sound now already  fantastic. It's difficult to think that  this yet can sound better.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A Sugar Daddy Amp for the K181 if I must say so myself. But guess what?: the K181 sounds incredible with the Woo 2. --But that's another amp, yes? Next up is the Beyerdynamic T50p if I can get ahold of one. If it doesn't sound good with a Leben, then perhaps it will never sound good--i think. Unless you pair it with a LF. --But then again, that's also another amp.


 

 How do you say Leben character vs LF? considering LF is a Hybrid amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> How do you say Leben character vs LF? considering LF is a Hybrid amp.


 
  Both the Leben and the LF have incredible detail but I would say that the LF has a vibrant quality to its character next to the Leben. The Leben has a has a sophisticated warmth and fullness. Now, mind you, the LF has fullness as well but I would say it is more risky in it presentation. If I would compare them to guitars I'd say the LF is a Fender Stratocaster (Clapton); and the Leben is a Gibson SG Special (Santana). Artists' techniques aside, that's how I'd compare them sq-wise.


----------



## RedBull

You explain it very well Clayton, but I really don't understand the difference between "Clapton" and "Santana", so sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What did you mean by "more risky in presentation"?  did you mean Leben is more forgiving for not so well recorded material and LF is less forgiving?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> You explain it very well Clayton, but I really don't understand the difference between "Clapton" and "Santana", so sorry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well the guitar that Clapton uses has a sort of clean sound, well-defined sq (technique aside) and Santana has a warmer sq--almost a growling sound--but still very well-defined. I apologize for using the guitar analogy because I realize that not everyone is familiar with the electric guitar sound signatures. My bad. As for using the adjective, risky--I mean that the LF is pushing the envelope of sound definition--currently it is incredibly agreeable and has no evidence of fatigue, but any further than that then the LF's sq would result in fatigue. I hope this is clearer; describing sound signatures is not my forte.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks Clayton, clear as crystal now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  can't be better than that.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





torero said:


> Has Anyone tried to compare between the new Genalex Lion EL84 tubes Vs some NOS El84 like Mullard, Sylvania, Amperex or Telefunken?
> 
> My Leben already has 100 hours of break and I am thinking to change the tubes.
> It arrived with a quad of reissue Genalex Lion EL84 and pair of new producction Tung sol 12AX7.
> ...


 
  I have tried the Genelax Lion El84 alongside NOS Mullard, Amperex and Mullard (reissue)...and have to say its the one I like the least on my Leben cs-300x. I have tried it with Sylvania 5751 blackplates, RCA command 5751, Raytheon 5751, GE 5751 Blackplates and the Raytheon 7299...and none of these could make them sing.
   
  My favourite pre and power tubes for the Leben are - Raytheon 7299 with Amperex EL84 Bugle boy D getter....a truly reference tube combo IMHO.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





torero said:


> Has Anyone tried to compare between the new Genalex Lion EL84 tubes Vs some NOS El84 like Mullard, Sylvania, Amperex or Telefunken?
> 
> My Leben already has 100 hours of break and I am thinking to change the tubes.
> It arrived with a quad of reissue Genalex Lion EL84 and pair of new producction Tung sol 12AX7.
> ...


 
   
  I have tried the Genelax Lion El84 alongside NOS Mullard, Amperex and Mullard (reissue)...and have to say its the one I like the least on my Leben cs-300x. I have tried it with Sylvania 5751 blackplates, RCA command 5751, Raytheon 5751, GE 5751 Blackplates and the Raytheon 7729...and none of these could make them sing.
   
  My favourite pre and power tubes for the Leben are - Raytheon 7729 with Amperex EL84 Bugle boy D getter....a truly reference tube combo IMHO.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





			
				Torero said:
			
		

> Has Anyone tried to compare between the new Genalex Lion EL84 tubes Vs some NOS El84 like Mullard, Sylvania, Amperex or Telefunken?
> 
> My Leben already has 100 hours of break and I am thinking to change the tubes.
> It arrived with a quad of reissue Genalex Lion EL84 and pair of new producction Tung sol 12AX7.
> ...


 
   
  I have tried the Genelax Lion El84 alongside NOS Mullard, Amperex and Mullard (reissue)...and have to say its the one I like the least on my Leben cs-300x. I have tried it with Sylvania 5751 blackplates, RCA command 5751, Raytheon 5751, GE 5751 Blackplates and the Raytheon 7729...and none of these could make them sing.
   
  My favourite pre and power tubes for the Leben are - Raytheon 7729 with Amperex EL84 Bugle boy D getter....a truly reference tube combo IMHO.


----------



## BugleBoy

aargh...tried to edit my post, but ended up re-posting it...twice. Sorry.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> aargh...tried to edit my post, but ended up re-posting it...twice. Sorry.


 

 It was worth reposting twice.  IMO the Bugle Boy D-getter is the perfect power tube for the Leben ... don't know why, but it is.  By far.


----------



## martook

I've been considering selling my Phoenix and upgrade to a Leben CS300 to use with my LCD-2 and modded Denons.
  I use it as a preamp as well though and I really like having a remote since I sit quite far away from the amp.
  Today, I have a Paradisea+ DAC, so that needs to be upgraded anyway, but if I go for the Leben I need a DAC/Pre
  with remote (I'm assuming it wouldn't be a problem to connect the Leben to a volume controlled output?).
   
  So, does anyone here run a similar setup, or have you tested a DAC/Pre with your Leben that you would recommend?


----------



## Torero

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> I have tried the Genelax Lion El84 alongside NOS Mullard, Amperex and Mullard (reissue)...and have to say its the one I like the least on my Leben cs-300x. I have tried it with Sylvania 5751 blackplates, RCA command 5751, Raytheon 5751, GE 5751 Blackplates and the Raytheon 7729...and none of these could make them sing.
> 
> My favourite pre and power tubes for the Leben are - Raytheon 7729 with Amperex EL84 Bugle boy D getter....a truly reference tube combo IMHO.


 
  Why the Amperex D guetter is the best EL84? What do you hear so good?

 Raytheon 7729 Vs Sylvania Black 5751 Vs RCA Command 5751 , please comparative.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





innerspace said:


> IMO the Bugle Boy D-getter is the perfect power tube for the Leben ... don't know why, but it is.  By far.


 


  Amen to that...


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





torero said:


> Why the Amperex D guetter is the best EL84? What do you hear so good?
> 
> Raytheon 7729 Vs Sylvania Black 5751 Vs RCA Command 5751 , please comparative.


 
  I am not very good with describing sound quality...but simply put I am yet to hear an el84 type which can match the Amperex for midrange quality and tonal richness. Matching them with the right pre-amp tubes (read Raytheon 7729) has given me the most satisfying eargasm yet... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I suspect they may even flatter some of the less esoteric 12ax7 or 5751 types.
   
  The Raytheon 7729, Sylvania Bk Plate 5751 and RCA command 5751 are all great tubes. But if I have to pick one that would be the Raytheon 7729...by far the best 12ax7 or 5751 I have heard. They are extremely hard to find though (almost extinct).
   
  If I did not have the 7729 then my order of preference would be;

 Raytheon 5751 windmill getter with Amperex
 RCA command 5751 with the Amperex
 Sylvania 5751 Blackplate with the Mullard (reissue)
 Sylvania 5751 Blackplate with NOS Mullard
   
  The sylvania 5751's with the Amperex did not quite float my boat though...the midrange presentation way too forward to my liking


----------



## Skylab

The Raytheon Windmill-getter 5751 are my favorite driver tube in the Leben, for sure. I like the Philips-Holland EL84 a lot, but when I put in the GE 6BQ5, for some reason I haven't wanted to take them out!


----------



## dminches

Those Raytheons are now $250 per pair!


----------



## Skylab

Yeah...sad but true.


----------



## BugleBoy

skylab said:


> The Raytheon Windmill-getter 5751 are my favorite driver tube in the Leben, for sure. I like the Philips-Holland EL84 a lot, but when I put in the GE 6BQ5, for some reason I haven't wanted to take them out!




I have heard a lot of good things about GE 6bq5. I read somewhere that you get most tone for the money with them... I will give them a try soon

Are the Phillip Holland you mention a re-branded Amperex d getter?


----------



## BugleBoy

dminches said:


> Those Raytheons are now $250 per pair!




Are you referring to the 7729 or the 5751? If you find a pair of 7729 for $250...i'd say its a steal. But $250 for a pair of 5751 is a bit sad...as skylab put it.


----------



## Skylab

bugleboy said:


> Are the Phillip Holland you mention a re-branded Amperex d getter?




Well, I guess that depends on how you look at it.

Any Amperex tube made in Holland is really a Philips tube, since Amperex was a US company originally, but was then bought by Royal Dutch Philips. So Amperex Holland tubes are essentially Philips tubes.

Now all that said, yes, I believe the Philips tubes I have are the same as the Amperex you are referring to.


----------



## starfish

Hi.  I've been lurking around Head-Fi for a couple years and really haven't posted that much.  But I recently bought and received (today) a Leben CS300XS.  I'm having some issues with the amp, which I already raised with my dealer and distributor and they do have me covered, though I'll have to wait a few weeks and live with the current amp in the meantime.  However, the two issues are perplexing, and being somewhat reluctant to give up and wait.... I would love advice should anyone here have insight.
   
  First, the amp sounds mostly fantastic.  This is the best integrated and headphone amp I have owned.  I was dazzled by feeling "in the music" today while listening to The Beatles 2009 Mono Box Set remasters through speakers.
   
  Second, I have somewhat of a developed and trained ear being a musician for quite some time.  I can hear differences in tubes and cables easily and this perception comes from years of playing guitar and using tube amps, and trying gear and listening carefully.  If something sounds different or "off" I'll generally hear it.
   
  Third, I realize my particular quesions may eventually turn into a technical / troubleshooting thread probably best placed in some other area of Head-Fi, BUT.... I beg leniency and would like to start here because I'm new to Leben, and hopefully this large thread has enough expertise to either lend appropriate advice on my issues as related to the CS300XS, and/or eventually point me in the right direction.
   
  Now the issues...
   
  The first issue - My 600ohm AKG K240M (made in Austria) phones are significantly lower in volume in the left channel through the CS300XS.  I have ruled out the phones.  They work with several other amps.  Stereo separation is accurate, confirmed with other amps.  Not the best phones, I know, but I have had them for years and years for mixing music and they are accurate and typically un-hyped / flat.  Likewise my 32ohm Shure E4C (IEM) is slightly lower volume in the same left channel but only slightly compared to the AKGs.  Again, it works fine with other amps.
   
  I have ruled out IC's, source, input selection on the Leben, etc.  I even swapped tubes from left to right, both the power and preamp tubes, first independently (EL84s only), then together (5751s & EL84s).  The issue stayed on the left, regardless of tubes.
   
  The second issue - while the amp sounds mostly fantastic with speakers, I have noticed that the opposite channel (right) has slightly diminished bass response.  I'm estimating around 2-3db.  I have asked a second party to listen and they confirmed.  Just ruling out my hearing...    Again, this issue persists regardless of IC's, source, input selection on the Leben, and especially regardless of the speakers, which I swapped from left to right to rule them out.  I confirmed the diminished bass using mono recordings and panning the balancer from hard left to hard right.  The right definitely has lower bass response with the same monaural source material.
   
  To summarize - left channel with phones is lower volume - significantly lower with 600ohm AKGs.  The same left channel has roughly even volume to the right channel when using speakers, but the right channel has slightly less bass or low freq. response  with speakers, around 2-3db down.
   
  Any insights?  With the quality of this amp as high as it is, it seems highly unlikely something silly is in play like mis-wiring or cold solder joints.  My gut says maybe the Leben doesn't like my two particular models of headphones.  But why manifest as lower volume in just one channel, and then the opposite channel has less bass with speakers.  Odd, and confounding.  Any insights are welcomed and will be appreciated.


----------



## BugleBoy

Starfish...have you checked the impedence matching switch in the rear binding post. I must be set to the highest impedence for headphones. Not sure if this will solve your problem though...but worth checking.


----------



## starfish

Thanks for the suggestion.  Yes, I had checked out the impedance switch.  It was set to 8ohm which matches my speakers and is also the highest available.  
   
  I also tried flipping /cycling the headphone switch, input switch and impedance switches about 20 times each in case there was an intermittent or dirty contact somewhere.  This had no effect on either issue.  Also, the impedance switch seems to have no audible impact on headphones nor speakers in any position (4/6/8 ohm).
   
  I also checked my AKG phones with a multimeter set to continuity to make sure there is no leak between left / right / shield.  There is not.  My meter's continuity test also gives resistance while in continuity mode, which measured 575 ohms for each side.  These were brief tests so as not to damage the phones.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds like an amp problem to me. But there is no channel imbalance with speakers?

One thing to point out - the Leben is really not designed for 600 ohm headphones. It should work, but the headphone out is a 32 ohm secondary winding from the output transformer. Leben's testing of the headphone out was done with 32 ohm headphones. They have said publicly that it should drive any headphone fine, but that they designed it around lower impedance headphones. And the best results for me have been with headphones under 120 ohms or so.


----------



## starfish

Ok, thanks.  There is not a volume imbalance with speakers but there is a difference in bass or lower frequencies.  The left has more bass with speakers and this is odd since it is the affected channel with headphones.  I have tried swapping the speakers from left to right to be sure it wasn't the speaker, and it is not.  I have also fully swapped out all the tubes and the same issues occur.  
   
  The 600ohm AKGs do drive fine in the right side - the quality is very good and plenty of volume at about 9:00 on the volume pot.  It's just that the left side is probably 1/4 the volume of the right side.  I've just never seen an issue like this before.  Typically the entire cans will be reduced not just one side.  Odd issue for certain.


----------



## TDL-speakers

One day I fancy trying a Leben CS300. Do the Leben's work well with Grado Headphones?


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


starfish said:


> Ok, thanks.  There is not a volume imbalance with speakers but there is a difference in bass or lower frequencies.  The left has more bass with speakers and this is odd since it is the affected channel with headphones.  I have tried swapping the speakers from left to right to be sure it wasn't the speaker, and it is not.  I have also fully swapped out all the tubes and the same issues occur.
> 
> The 600ohm AKGs do drive fine in the right side - the quality is very good and plenty of volume at about 9:00 on the volume pot.  It's just that the left side is probably 1/4 the volume of the right side.  I've just never seen an issue like this before.  Typically the entire cans will be reduced not just one side.  Odd issue for certain.


 

 If you try the Balancer, would it be fine?  Mine's is louder on the left, I have to turn the Balancer 30 degree to the right.


----------



## starfish

Hi.  Thanks for the feedback.  The balancer does not really fix the issue with headphones.  If I turn the balancer to 9:00 a.m. or so, then the volume is roughly equal but the gain is way down.  There is a definite problem, but I'm not too worried.  My dealer said he will just give me a brand new one when it arrives in a couple weeks.  Until then, I can enjoy it with speakers though the channel imbalance with bass occurs with speakers.  There is definitely something wrong with this amp and if I venture a guess, it might be out of spec cap or resistor somewhere in the output path.  Perhaps you have a similar issue?  I would send the amp back.  For this price, there should be no significant imbalance with volume or frequency content, IMO.


----------



## starfish

I am wondering this question too since once I have a replacement amp I plan to get a set of phones in the $500-600 range.  I'm looking at the new Grado PS500 specifically.
   
  Please, anyone feel free to recommend what they think would be the best phones in the $500-600 range with the CS300XS for rock and jazz, and some ambient, like Brian Eno and Robin Guthrie.


----------



## RedBull

I'm curious, how many degree you have to turn to get the same volume?
  And if you do that? how much you have to pump up the volume pot to get the equivalent volume before you use the Balancer?  because, even when I use the balancer, yes, the gain lower, but not significant, I can leave the volume as is.
   
  Btw, do you have to turn up to 90 degree angle?  I tries 90 degree just now, yes, the gain drop significantly.


----------



## googleli

One other ultimate tube combo for the Leben is Amperex Bugleboy 1950's long plate D-getter 12AX7s with Mullard 1950's EL84s. You will be amazed.


----------



## googleli

Do I really have to turn the Leben to 8 ohm when I listen to headphone? I remember I asked someone in this thread who said the impedance switch is independent to the headphone out. I am using 4-ohm setting for my speakers - maybe that's the reason I am getting less impact on the LCD2? Let me try it out tonight.


----------



## Skylab

If you are using the headphone output, you shouldn't have to change the switch. The headphone outPut is a secondary 32 ohm winding off the output transformer. So I don't believe the switch would have any impact.


----------



## Torero

Yesterday my Mullard 1950's EL84 have arrived. My first impression compared to the new Genalex EL84 and without burn. It's that the Mullard are very prominent in the midrange. The voices are more present are very smooth, this i like me, it's musical. But the highs and the bass are more poorer for now. Overcoat I don't listen sub bass like before. WITHOUT BURN THEM.


----------



## Beyerdynamico

Hi guys,
   
  I need your help. I have an issue with my Leben. Here is my thread:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/575746/lebens-owners-request-what-i-found-inside-my-leben-cs-300x-limited#post_7819799


----------



## starfish

Just to follow up don my earlier posts in this thread -
   
  My replacement CS300XS is in my hands.  Night and Day!!!  The new amp sounds fine.  The headphone issue is gone as well.  I guess I just got a flawed amp the first time around.  I immediately noticed better imaging right out of the box.  The left channel imbalance on the first amp caused the perception that the brighter frequencies were coming from the right channel and therefore more volume on the right as well, with low mids and deeper bass predominantly from the left.  With the new amp, there is great imaging and even balance.  I'm really enjoying this amp and tonight will fully test it out with phones.
   
  Now I'll need recommendations on good mid-tier phones for this amp.  My K240M (made in Austria) are probably under the quality level that this amp deserves.


----------



## Skylab

Well that is very good news!


----------



## mwilson

Well, my Leben will be in da house this Saturday. My dealer is burning one in for me, so it will have at least 50 hours on it. It will be an interesting comparison with the Liquid Fire I also have. I'll post impressions in a week or so. I really look forward to it.


----------



## googleli

Audeze LCD3 is your choice.

  
  Quote: 





starfish said:


> Just to follow up don my earlier posts in this thread -
> 
> My replacement CS300XS is in my hands.  Night and Day!!!  The new amp sounds fine.  The headphone issue is gone as well.  I guess I just got a flawed amp the first time around.  I immediately noticed better imaging right out of the box.  The left channel imbalance on the first amp caused the perception that the brighter frequencies were coming from the right channel and therefore more volume on the right as well, with low mids and deeper bass predominantly from the left.  With the new amp, there is great imaging and even balance.  I'm really enjoying this amp and tonight will fully test it out with phones.
> 
> Now I'll need recommendations on good mid-tier phones for this amp.  My K240M (made in Austria) are probably under the quality level that this amp deserves.


----------



## superjohny

what really bothers me is to choose between a LF ot a leben.
   
  don't really have the luxury to audition both here. 
   
  guess both are good for lcd-2 and la-7000


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Where can you purchase a Leben???
   
  Oh, and Skylab, if you're reading and feeling generous answering a question; How do the Marantz and Leben compare from memory? Think the Marantz will tame the LCD3s?


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Audeze LCD3 is your choice.


 

 Thanks, but... Lol, I guess I should have highlighted the portion of my post where it reads "mid-tier."  How about Grado PS-500 or AKG k702 or Sennheiser HD600?  Which of those would be the best match for the Leben?  Overall, believe it or not, I like the sound and feel of my Austrian AKG K240M but know that spending a few hundred dollars will probably put me into a sweet spot of more detail.  That's one of the reasons I'm curious about the k702.  But if other mid-tier options are better, I'm all ears...


----------



## googleli

IMO, SR009 is top-tier, LCD3 is mid-tier, LCD2 may be upper low.


----------



## mwilson

If I were a gambing person, I'd wager you might see a few chaps around this place disagreeing with the below statement, specifically about the LCD-2 part.

  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> IMO, SR009 is top-tier, LCD3 is mid-tier, LCD2 may be upper low.


----------



## mwilson

You're telling me! It's quite the chore, actually, and this is after I had the WA22, RWA AE and now the LF. I can't wait to hear the Leben, and make a final decision on the amp to keep. Then I'll be off head-fi until LCD-3 rev. 2 is announced.
  
  Quote: 





superjohny said:


> what really bothers me is to choose between a LF ot a leben.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> Where can you purchase a Leben???
> 
> Oh, and Skylab, if you're reading and feeling generous answering a question; How do the Marantz and Leben compare from memory? Think the Marantz will tame the LCD3s?


 


  The Marantz didnt sound quite as good as I hoped with the LCD-3.  The Leben is much better.


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





googleli said:


> IMO, SR009 is top-tier, LCD3 is mid-tier, LCD2 may be upper low.


 


  Lol, by those same standards the Leben is big box budget.


----------



## zeluiz

Hello,
  I recently bought an used Leben CS300XS and enjoy this little amp A LOT, both with my HD800 and also with a pair of Omega Super 8 Alnico speakes (Fantastic COMBO!!!).
  My unit came with both tubes sets from Genalex (Gold Lion), so I guess that to improve on these I must go for premium NOS tubes... But I noticed that there is a brand called "TAD" that makes an EL84 with interesting "radical" specs, shorter and wider in size, etc... Did anyone tried these tubes branded "TAD" in a Leben? 
  My concern is about the golden tube shield-bases inside the Leben won´t fit a wider tube...
  Thanks,
  Jose


----------



## googleli

The Gold Lion reissues are about the fattest tubes you can fit in, so I reckon anything fatter than those you can't fit them into the Leben.


----------



## starfish

The gold tube shield bases appear to be removable, and IIRC the ceramic sockets are mounted from the underside, inside the main chassis and would be fully usable without the shield bases.  I have several amps that contain only the ceramic sockets and functionally are quite sound.  I recommend unplugging the amp, removing the EL84 tubes and then carefully unscrewing and removing the gold tube shield bases.  You should quickly be able to determine clearance for wide tubes, but just about anything should fit without the bases.


----------



## googleli

I can now confirm that the impedance switch DOES HAVE am effect on the headphone out. Listening to track 5 of Kay Yse's new album, with the Leben set at 4 ohm and 11 o'clock volume, I detected distortion with the LCD3.I turned the Leben off, switch it to 8 Ohms, then turn it back on. Voila! No distortion at all even I switch it to 2 o'clock. Also the sound becomes more focused and treble now more prominent. Looks like I have been underestimating the Leben, but largely because I don't listen pass 10 o'clock with the ED10 or LCD2 in the past, and that my speakers are 4 ohms. With LCD3 I turned up volume further and detected the problem with 4 ohm output. Suggest everyone uses 8 ohm setting for LCDs.


----------



## dminches

I have noticed that with the LCD-3s, as compared to the LCD-2s, I have the volume up 1 more click on the Leben.  I had a similar experience on an Eddie Current amp at Canjam when I was comparing the 2s and 3s.


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## alvin sawdust

Well done on your findings googleli. I too was getting distortion past 11 o'clock, I put it down to an output mismatch with my DAC.
   
  Just set the imp. to 8 ohms and hey bingo, the distortion has gone.


----------



## mourip

I am using a Wyred4Sound DAC2 with my LebenXS and it works great. It has a remote with volume, balance, and input switching(for the DAC).
   
   
  "*I've been considering selling my Phoenix and upgrade to a Leben CS300 to use with my LCD-2 and modded Denons.*
*I use it as a preamp as well though and I really like having a remote since I sit quite far away from the amp.*
*Today, I have a Paradisea+ DAC, so that needs to be upgraded anyway, but if I go for the Leben I need a DAC/Pre*
*with remote (I'm assuming it wouldn't be a problem to connect the Leben to a volume controlled output?).*
   
*So, does anyone here run a similar setup, or have you tested a DAC/Pre with your Leben that you would recommend?"*


----------



## martook

Finally got my hands on a CS300. First impressions were... not great to be honest.
  Really thin sound. The fact that I have no proper source and had to go straight from
  the computer (with a ESI Juli@ soundcard, but still) might have something to do with
  that though. 
  Brought home the Compass from work, so now I have a Stello U3 -> Compass -> Leben.
  At least it sounds more or less as it should... will of course upgrade the source ASAP,
  I must have the crappiest DAC of any Leben owner 
   
   
  Anyway, got some issues with it that I hope you guys can help me with...
   
  * About 10 seconds after turning on the amp, a hum appears in the right channel.
  This is with no source connected at all, so it's definitely coming from the amp itself.
  No change in the sound when changing the volume, it's a constant hum, not very loud,
  but still annoying and clearly audible during quiet parts of the music.
  I'm guessing this is down to bad tubes? It's a second hand unit, no idea how many
  hours the tubes have done.
   
   
  * There is also some hiss that is affected by the volume control. This is my first
  tube amp, I'm used to the deep silence at all volumes from SS equipment. Is this
  something I should get used to, or is this because of faulty tubes / a faulty unit?
   
   
  * Lastly, any tips for decent tubes that aren't too expensive? Any good source 
  for tubes besides eBay, that sells to Sweden?


----------



## starfish

My CS300XS is completely silent, no hiss nor hum, and a very full and pleasing tone, and this is with the stock tubes.  Of course, it sounds even better when I tube roll through my stash of vintage RCA, Mullard, and Philips.  I would suggest you have the amp serviced since it most certainly sounds like there is something amiss.  Also,  I suspect the computer sound card is your tonal bottleneck in that system,
  
  In fact, I have heard many superlatives to describe the Leben sound, but 'thin' is not one of them.    Best of luck sorting things out.


----------



## martook

Quote: 





starfish said:


> My CS300XS is completely silent, no hiss nor hum, and a very full and pleasing tone, and this is with the stock tubes.  Of course, it sounds even better when I tube roll through my stash of vintage RCA, Mullard, and Philips.  I would suggest you have the amp serviced since it most certainly sounds like there is something amiss.  Also,  I suspect the computer sound card is your tonal bottleneck in that system,
> 
> In fact, I have heard many superlatives to describe the Leben sound, but 'thin' is not one of them.    Best of luck sorting things out.


 

  
  The amp was supposedly serviced about a year ago, don't really want to send it
  off to service when I just got it... I'd rather return it to the seller in that case :/
   
  Hehe, yeah, the sound improved with just the Compass as dac, I'm hoping a
  proper one will do a lot more for it.
   
  So, no chance all my problems are down to bad tubes? The seller said he had
  some new ones, I guess I could try to get him to send them to me so I could try
  it, but it would help my case with some input from you guys 
   
  Btw, I'm using a pair of LCD-2r2, so the volume hiss isn't because of sensitive
  headphones or anything like that.


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





martook said:


> The amp was supposedly serviced about a year ago, don't really want to send it
> off to service when I just got it... I'd rather return it to the seller in that case :/
> 
> Hehe, yeah, the sound improved with just the Compass as dac, I'm hoping a
> ...


 

 Oh, I didn't know you purchased a used amp.  In that case, yes, replace the tubes before doing anything else, especially if you already have some spare tubes.


----------



## metalgear

Quote: 





starfish said:


> Oh, I didn't know you purchased a used amp.  In that case, yes, replace the tubes before doing anything else, especially if you already have some spare tubes.


 


  make sure you get good/matched tubes though. I've got few friends owning the Lebens and they are more delicate/fragile than the average tube amp.


----------



## martook

Quote: 





starfish said:


> Oh, I didn't know you purchased a used amp.  In that case, yes, replace the tubes before doing anything else, especially if you already have some spare tubes.


 
  Quote: 





metalgear said:


> make sure you get good/matched tubes though. I've got few friends owning the Lebens and they are more delicate/fragile than the average tube amp.


 

  
  The previous owner will send me a set that I think is more or less new,
  hopefully that will improve things. Don't really want to spend hundreds
  of dollars on tubes until I know the Leben is working as it should.
   
  I'll return with more information when I've received the new tubes


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





metalgear said:


> make sure you get good/matched tubes though. I've got few friends owning the Lebens and they are more delicate/fragile than the average tube amp.


 


   
  The Leben is not really "more delicate/fragile" than any other push/pull, cathode biased amp. In fact, the p2p construction and circuit design is anything but delicate or fragile, unless we're talking about dropping a glass filled amp off a building, well that's another story.  
   
  Where people run into problems with cathode biased amps is when they interpret "self biasing" to mean any old 4 tubes are good enough because the amp biases itself.  Well, that's not really the whole story.  In a cathode biased amp, the more current flowing, then the greater the bias voltage, which reduces the current in turn, thus self biasing for small variations.  A slightly hot running tube will bias itself slightly cooler.  This means if you're running a quad of tubes of the same type you don't need to rebias so long as they are relatively close in measurement.  Cathode bias does not handle wide variations, different tube types, and out of spec tubes.  For these conditions, the amp can be rebiased by changing the resistors.  But why bother?  A cathode bias amp makes it easy for you so long as you follow some common sense parameters - Just be sure to use at least matched pairs, with the pairs in relatively close tolerance to each other.  It's always best to get a matched quad if available, especially if using new production tubes where quad matching is almost always available.


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





martook said:


> The previous owner will send me a set that I think is more or less new,
> hopefully that will improve things. Don't really want to spend hundreds
> of dollars on tubes until I know the Leben is working as it should.
> 
> I'll return with more information when I've received the new tubes


 

 If the amp was shipped or transported a distance to you, you might check that the tubes are all properly seated and functioning.  It is very common for tubes to become partially unseated during shipping if the tubes were left in the sockets.  Typically removing and reseating the tubes will also clean off the pins a bit too.  But if you have some electrical contact cleaner like Deoxit you could remove the tubes and apply a little to the pins and push them back in.  The above recommendation is just a quick check you can do while waiting for new tubes.
   
  I would not implicitly trust the seller who may have given you a faulty amp, or at least worn out tubes, to provide known working replacements.  If you're not willing to buy a new set of tubes from a reputable dealer, then try taking both quads to a service technician who can test the tubes for you.  Most guitar amp repair technicians have an industrial tube tester.  This only takes a few minutes to test and rule out a worn or faulty tube.  I personally use a calibrated and maintained military surplus Hickok TV-7 retired from the U.S. Navy.


----------



## googleli

It does sound thin with all Telefunken tubes for both stages, at least in my experience, probably because the Leben is already a neutral sounding amp.  Works great with Amperex / Mullards/ Sylvannia IMO.

  
  Quote: 





starfish said:


> My CS300XS is completely silent, no hiss nor hum, and a very full and pleasing tone, and this is with the stock tubes.  Of course, it sounds even better when I tube roll through my stash of vintage RCA, Mullard, and Philips.  I would suggest you have the amp serviced since it most certainly sounds like there is something amiss.  Also,  I suspect the computer sound card is your tonal bottleneck in that system,
> 
> In fact, I have heard many superlatives to describe the Leben sound, but 'thin' is not one of them.    Best of luck sorting things out.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Tend to agree with the above statement. Getting very good results with Amperex bugle boy driver tubes and Baldwin/Sylvania black plate output tubes. The sound is punchy, authorative and very engaging, quite a bit better than the standard compliment of tubes the amp came with ( CS300XS ).
  Must admit though, I too can hear a low level hum but it doesn't detract from the listening experience. Might try swapping the Sovteks back in to see if it's a tube derived hum.


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





googleli said:


> It does sound thin with all Telefunken tubes for both stages, at least in my experience, probably because the Leben is already a neutral sounding amp.  Works great with Amperex / Mullards/ Sylvannia IMO.


 

 This hasn't been my experience at all using TFs.  I have a pretty good assortment too having used them with various guitar amps.  TFs sound neutral to me, not thin.  They don't have the mid bump of something like "B" code Mullards.
   
  Plenty of detail, not recessed in any way.  I just don't describe them as thin in any application.  Of course, the point of trying different tubes is finding a type that matches your particular preferences, and most tubes do have a sonic signature.  Claiming the Leben CS300XS is "thin" (I'm not saying you originally made this claim), is really contrary to every reputable review of the amp and just about all forum feedback around the web.   I'm trying to understand if the point of your post was just to imply TFs are not your preference and sound "thin" to you, then that is a worthy opinion.  But if the implication is to say that the Leben CS300XS is a "thin" amp just because you don't like TFs in it, then that is somewhat colored and unrealistic, IMO.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Sorry, just to clarify, I wasn't agreeing the Leben sounded thin, but that it sounds better to my ears with Amperex and Sylvania tubes rolled in.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Sorry, just to clarify, I wasn't agreeing the Leben sounded thin, but that it sounds better to my ears with Amperex and Sylvania tubes rolled in.


 


  Indeed it does.  And I think the point is right on that the Leben, in itself, is pretty neutral, and so if you roll in bright sounding tubes like Telefunkens, the Leben can indeed sound bright.


----------



## arnesto

I primarily use my Leben CS300xs with headphones, but this weekend I wanted to do a comparison with speakers.
   
  I tried using the same speakers on my Leben and my Onkyo home theater receiver.
   
  It is just amazing how much better the Leben sounds, I guess there is a reason why people pay $2,500 dollars for a Leben.
   
  BTW, my Onkyo is pretty decent and sounds good enough for watching TV, but for music, the Leben sounds so much better.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> And I think the point is right on that the Leben, in itself, is pretty neutral, and so if you roll in bright sounding tubes like Telefunkens, the Leben can indeed sound bright.


 


  Neutral in itself, yes, but IMO also much more transparent to tube changes than almost any push-pull amp I have had.  For instance, TF drivers and TF power tubes are a too-bright combination in practically any amp, IMO, but TF drivers and Siemens power tubes in the Leben dial it back just right - which is a distinction I haven't heard with such precision elsewhere.  Usually TF and Siemens EL84s sound very close to each other, IMO - but not in the Leben.  I don't know how it is achieved, but I like it.


----------



## shabta

I primarily use the Leban with my HD800s. But I set up some Proac Tablettes in near field. Sweeeeeeeet!
  Quote: 





arnesto said:


> I primarily use my Leben CS300xs with headphones, but this weekend I wanted to do a comparison with speakers.
> 
> I tried using the same speakers on my Leben and my Onkyo home theater receiver.
> 
> ...


----------



## alvin sawdust

Can't wait to try mine with a suitable pair of speakers too.
  
  Quote: 





shabta said:


> I primarily use the Leban with my HD800s. But I set up some Proac Tablettes in near field. Sweeeeeeeet!


----------



## googleli

The characteristics of the tubes in the Leben are more prominent on speakers than on headphones, in my experience. Allows me to adjust the sound easily with different tubes whenever I change power cables or interconnects on different parts of the system. An amazing tube amp.


----------



## MuppetFace

My Leben buzzes when I connect the HD800 and T1. I'm assured by many this is not normal. So should I try cleaning / re-seating the tubes? They're stock, not old or anything.
   
  I've tried moving the amp around to make sure it's not interference buzz, but alas it's still there.
   
  Edit: I should mention that these are the only headphones in my collection that buzz with the Leben. The HE-6 doesn't buzz. The LCD-2 doesn't. The Audio-Technicas don't buzz (which is odd since they buzz on just about ANYTHING save the Zana). There's nothing wrong with the headphones in question either, since they don't buzz on anything else. It's a bit perplexing.


----------



## dminches

Aren't both those headphones high impedance as opposed to the LCD-2 and HE-6 which are low?  That seems like the common denominator.


----------



## MuppetFace

The Sony Z1000 buzzes as well, so it's not just high impedance headphones.
   
  Really, I'm just wondering what I should do to troubleshoot. I'm going to open the amp later and try re-seating the tubes. I may try some other tubes as well, in case one or some of them is/are bad.


----------



## alvin sawdust

I have just fitted rubber damping rings to the Sylvania/Baldwin 6BQ5 tubes, two each tube, which has reduced the hum considerably.
   
  Have to say this amp gets better and better each time I listen to it, well recorded vocals just tickle my ears, a very engrossing experience.
   
  It's what ya pays yer money for


----------



## RedBull

I still having this channel imbalance, although small, but quite hmm, annoying.
  My distributor (or service center) recommend me to change the volume pot.
  I can choose the normal Alps or more expensive ones.
   
  Do you think what his recommendation make sense?  if yes, could you recommend me a better volume pot for my Leben.
  Anyone change your Leben volume pot?  is it going to be better?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## martook

Two new (well, old, and not in great shape) set of tubes arrived, and I have exactly
  the same problems with them 
   
  Still a constant annoying hum in right channel, and a hiss that is affected by the
  volume (feels pretty much like a hiss I should get if I connected a pair or really
  sensitive HPs, not the LCD2), both sounds are detectable with speakers as well,
  but I have to put my ear close to the tweeter to hear it.
   
   
   
  I think the EL84 tube on the far left might be burning warmer than the others by the
  way... thought it was down to the tube having more clear glass on the top (as I saw
  it with the lid on), but it's the same with the other tubes, and that's a bit weird...
  another guy in here seems to have had that problem, due to loose tube sockets.
  Don't really feel like operating on an expensive piece of gear I just got 
   
   
   
  Going to have a word with the seller tomorrow, anyone has any suggestions for me?


----------



## dminches

I would either get the seller to agree to having the unit sent to Leben and repaired at his expense or return it to him for a full refund.


----------



## alvin sawdust

After suffering with a humming Leben I tried the output tubes fitted with rubber damping rings. Initially my thoughts were positive but on extended listening I found that the hum was very little reduced and the sound seemed robbed of some life.
   
  This morning I decided to clean all the tube pins with Caig Deoxit and after refitting I can happily report that I now have a dead silent Leben.
   
  I highly recommend this to all Leben owners


----------



## Skylab

That's good news, and good advice for owners of ALL tube amps.  Clean those pins!


----------



## zeluiz

Hello,
  I guess this question have already been asked before here in this topic...
  But, is it safe to keep the Leben on without any speakers connected and the front switch set to "headphones" position?
  What is the main danger if the switch is briefly set to "speakers"?
  Thanks!


----------



## martook

*sigh*
   
  Tried putting some resistors on the headphone output (idea from here: http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en )
  and it did help with my LCD-2 (but not the HD600), but instead of the buzz, I got massive distortions on loud levels :/
   
  So... still no real progress, it's now going back to the importer, where they will have a look at it.
  Not very hopeful though, apparently their opinion is that "tube amps always make some noise" ...
   
   
  How many here have a 230V Leben, and if you do, do you have any problems with hum / hiss? Especially
  interested about how it works with the LCD-2, but all my headphones had the problem with this amp...


----------



## MuppetFace

Well, I have the 115V version, but I've always had hum/hiss with my HD800 and T1. It's faint, but there. Don't have the problem with the LCD-2 though.


----------



## Duckman

MY 230V version had a very low-level hum. Didn't bother me.


----------



## Skylab

I had a very faint hum with a few high-efficiency low impedance headphones like the JVC DX-1000, but none with the HD800, T1, or LCD-2.  Or even the Sony R10.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> After suffering with a humming Leben I tried the output tubes fitted with rubber damping rings. Initially my thoughts were positive but on extended listening I found that the hum was very little reduced and the sound seemed robbed of some life.
> 
> This morning I decided to clean all the tube pins with Caig Deoxit and after refitting I can happily report that I now have a dead silent Leben.
> 
> I highly recommend this to all Leben owners


 

 I had some noisy NOS amperex 6DJ8s, after I cleaned their pins, most of the noise went away. I only used 91% isopropyl alcohol (I didn't have Deoxit at the time).


----------



## googleli

On my 220V unit, the hum is only noticeable if I stick my ear to the speakers when there is no music, but using headphone out from the Leben, there is no hum at all.


----------



## martook

Thanks for your replies everyone! It's helpful to have that information when talking to the seller and local agent. The more satisfied customers I can point to, the more power I have when talking to them I think. So if there are any more owners around, please tell me about your experiences with hiss/hum. A PM would do just fine as well, although it is rather nice to liven up this thread a bit, I get tired of wading through the LCD-3 threads... 
   
  I really hope they are able to solve the problem, although right now I'm rather turned off by tube amps in general and Leben in particular. With all the problems I never got a fair chance to compare it to my Phoenix, but I haven't had a single issue with that amp, it's completely silent and also has a remote, which is rather nice to be honest.


----------



## ironear

I to benefit since many months my "CS300x" with tubes NOS of the type 6P14P reflector (they are incredibly honest from the sound) and JAN Phillips ECC83. My HPare  LCD-2
 Rev.1 / Rev2 and K701. Both are able to do the strengths of this amplifier KH really excellently in
 Scene put.
 So from my side a big praise to the developers and all owning a lot of fun with this
 Amplifier. I could not discover a rushing up to now by my device with the best will in the world.

 Now I still wait for LCD-3 hopefully very well with the "CS300x" harmonises.


----------



## RedBull

I have the 220 (or 230v, I'm not Shure.  Are they the same?).  I don't have any hum issue at all, clean all the way.


----------



## hedphonz

Hi guys - potential new C300xs owner here - potential because i read in a thread in this forum by Skylab who rated all the tube amps he had listened to and the C300xs was rated the best.
   
  I know the best is subjective but if i want the best sounding tube/hybrid amp to provide some warmth to my HD800's  is the Leben still generally regarded as the go to tube amp?
   
  I particularly like the fact it can double as an amp to drive external speakers for a small room setup which is where i do my listening and therefore would have broader appeal when it comes to reselling in a couple of years which is what i historically tend to do.
   
  There is a local reseller who has a new one on display here {230v} so availability is not a problem if you guys say go for it and its christmas so theres another reason to self indulge 
   
   
   
   
  .


----------



## shabta

I have an HD800 and a Leben (230v). It sounds fantastic. I wouldn't trade it for anything else I have heard except maybe a stax 009 and a BHSE. I also use it with proac tablettes in a near field setup and they sound amazing. So yes go for it! Indulge, Indulge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> Hi guys - potential new C300xs owner here - potential because i read in a thread in this forum by Skylab who rated all the tube amps he had listened to and the C300xs was rated the best.
> 
> I know the best is subjective but if i want the best sounding tube/hybrid amp to provide some warmth to my HD800's  is the Leben still generally regarded as the go to tube amp?
> 
> ...


----------



## googleli

Depending on the type of music you listen to, I suggest try the Liquid Fire as well. I own both and they bring out the best of the LCD2 and LCD3 in different kinds of music. But either way you can't go wrong. Really good tubes can cost more than half the price of either amp though.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> There is a local reseller who has a new one on display here {230v} so availability is not a problem if you guys say go for it and its christmas so theres another reason to self indulge


 

 Why not listen to it instead? That others like it is no guarantee that you do. I have read tons of recommendations for bad gear.


----------



## Sweden

I've listened to both the CS300 and a DNA Sonett hybrid amp with a pair of HD800 and the Sonett was better IMO.
  Just amazing clarity, detail and musicality. The Sonett was the first amp that made the HD800 a great sounding headphone to me. 


  
  Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> Hi guys - potential new C300xs owner here - potential because i read in a thread in this forum by Skylab who rated all the tube amps he had listened to and the C300xs was rated the best.
> 
> I know the best is subjective but if i want the best sounding tube/hybrid amp to provide some warmth to my HD800's  is the Leben still generally regarded as the go to tube amp?
> 
> ...


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





anders said:


> Why not listen to it instead? That others like it is no guarantee that you do. I have read tons of recommendations for bad gear.


 

 good point - i bought the lehmann BCL solely on the great reviews i read about on here and at first i thought it was fantastic but over 3 months of listening the treble and the lack of tonal warmth became more and more apparent until it started to gnaw at me. Thats when i started reading that others had similar experiences and went tube.
   
  I will audition the cs300 at home for a week and hope that is enough time. Good thing about tubes i suppose is its tweakability in case over a few months i decide that something needs changing.

  
  Quote: 





sweden said:


> I've listened to both the CS300 and a DNA Sonett hybrid amp with a pair of HD800 and the Sonett was better IMO.
> Just amazing clarity, detail and musicality. The Sonett was the first amp that made the HD800 a great sounding headphone to me.


 

 Thanks for that recommendation, the DNA sonnet,Cavalli  liquid fire and the red wine isabellina are 3 other recommendations that I would love to listen to but they would require importing especially into NZ as there wouldnt be any demo units or even distributors.Living in a small country has many advantages but unfortunately the market for high end headphone listening is tiny. I suspect that living in sweden you probably have similar issues ?
   
  Out of all the most highly regarded tube HP amps the leben is the only one i can audition and thats because it is an integrated stereo amp and therefore has broader appeal.
   
  In reality its probably my best option and as soon as i get back from holiday i will be heading down to the store


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> good point - i bought the lehmann BCL solely on the great reviews i read about on here and at first i thought it was fantastic but over 3 months of listening the treble and the lack of tonal warmth became more and more apparent until it started to gnaw at me. Thats when i started reading that others had similar experiences and went tube.
> 
> I will audition the cs300 at home for a week and hope that is enough time. Good thing about tubes i suppose is its tweakability in case over a few months i decide that something needs changing.


 
  I am sure you will like the CS 300XS after the Lehmann. That is the exact same switch I made. I found that the Leben had much of the qualities of the BCL in terms of soundstage and resolving power, but you get the tonal warmth in spades. But be warned, the Leban is not a super warm tube amp. It is still pretty neutral.


----------



## Anders

Listening for a week at home is a great opportunity. I have not compared Leben and DNA Sonett side by side but both are very good amps. I think the Sonett is more neutral and Leben a little more colored, but in a good way. A week should be more than enough to know if you like it, but stock tube are not the best.


----------



## Sweden

I will not stop you, the Leben is great with the right tubes..
  Remember that the Sonett is much cheaper priced at 1200 compared to the rest of them.
  
  Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> Thanks for that recommendation, the DNA sonnet,Cavalli  liquid fire and the red wine isabellina are 3 other recommendations that I would love to listen to but they would require importing especially into NZ as there wouldnt be any demo units or even distributors.Living in a small country has many advantages but unfortunately the market for high end headphone listening is tiny. I suspect that living in sweden you probably have similar issues ?
> 
> Out of all the most highly regarded tube HP amps the leben is the only one i can audition and thats because it is an integrated stereo amp and therefore has broader appeal.
> 
> In reality its probably my best option and as soon as i get back from holiday i will be heading down to the store


----------



## googleli

The Leben shines with good tubes. While the LF sounds great and powerful, the Leben still has its strength in the tube sound which I like more for acoustic and Jazz vocal. The other good thing is the Leben's sound is more sensitive to tube change and is more versatile to suit your speakers or headphone. Yes it is a very good speaker amp as well unless you are using some big monster speakers. The LF in comparison is also subject to change of sound in tubes but not so much as the sound can be calibrated by tubes in the Leben. 
  I am using the almost extinct Telefunken E88CCa's for the LF which cost more than half of the LF but IMO the change in sound is not as much as switching tubes in the Leben. If you like the LF's power you can always change power tubes in the Leben to Gold Lions which are quite cheap. It cannot achieve the LF's kind of power but quite close.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





googleli said:


> I am using the almost extinct Telefunken E88CCa's for the -- --


 

 There's E88CC and there's CCa... but E88CCa???


----------



## googleli

They are the CCa's, not sure if E88 CCa is how it is properly called but you know what I mean.


----------



## Oskari

I was just wondering if there really was something labelled as E88CCa.
   
  CCa was a premium E88CC used by the German Post.


----------



## googleli

No, it just says CCa on the tubes.


----------



## cooperpwc

A matched pair of Telefunken CCAs was $500-$550 as recently as 2009.* I suspect that they are even more now.
   
  (* I could have gotten a pair from the 1950s with smooth getter suport for my EMP for about $550. I kind of wish that I had...)


----------



## googleli

I bought my NOS quad for HK$14K.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





googleli said:


> I bought my NOS quad for HK$14K.


 

 Ouch! But when you are matching four NOS tubes of that vintage, rather than two, the price is going to go up. I bet that they are very nice...


----------



## starfish

Go for the Leben and don't look back.  It sounds superb with so many kinds of music.  My favorite quality of this amp is tonality.  Instruments just sound right, period.


----------



## mrtim6

I am very happy to say I have just joined the Leben CS300XS club





  240 volt version (purchased in Australia)
  i have used it with my Ultrasone Ed 8 headphones and with my Monitor Audio RS1 bookshelf speakers using a Grace M903 as dac an preamp and Mac Mini with Amarra and AIFF audio files.
  This amp drives the Monitors extremely well - really brings out the best in them. I am considering the daunting task of sourcing some good tubes - not sure where to try at this stage - any recommendations for Australia or online would be appreciated thanks all


----------



## mrtim6

Early set-up phase with Grace M903, MacMini and Monitor audio RS1 (Silvers) thought a few people might be curious to see the Leben driving bookshelf speakers.


----------



## MuppetFace

I plan on hooking the TakeT TR2 up to the Leben CS300XS to drive my forthcoming TakeT H2+ as an experiment of sorts.


----------



## TruBrew

Does anyone here use a voltage regulator with their Leben. I am not sure if I should be concerned or not. I am getting about 125V off the wall. The Leben is the USA version, and I believe wants 120V.
   
  Few people here seem to use power conditioners/ voltage regulators, so I wanted to get a few opinions.


----------



## Jian

5v difference is not a big deal. In some area, the peak voltage can shoot up to 10 to 15 percent higher than standard, and that is where the risk comes from.


----------



## Jian

I'm going to attach a 10 ohm 20w resistor to each channel of the speaker taps today and see how it works with the HE6. This will match the 8 ohm requirement for my leben and hopefully lower the noise floor. My leben does have a very low noise floor with speaker tap HE6 and headphone jack T1, but not with headphone jack LCD2/3. The noise gets lower when switching the leben from 8 ohm to 4 ohm. And to confirm googleli's report, my HE6 through headphone out has a big distortion at over 12 o'clock when the leben is on 4 ohm but not on 8 ohm. Will clean the pins as well, for now is that time of the year when people clean their gears


----------



## TruBrew

Thanks. I read the 10% thing somewhere. I did the math and that made me feel a bit better. The second confirmation helps.


----------



## Jian

Reporting back from my pin cleaning and resistor testing.
   
  After cleaning up pins,the noise floor stays very low but similar as before (when using HE6 through speaker tap or T1 through headphone output).
   
  After connecting two 10 ohm resistors to the speaker tap, the noise floor when using HE6 through speaker tap goes down to almost unaudible (unless I really try to pick it up in a silent environment), and the SQ and volume of my HE6 stay exactly the same (the SQ maybe even gets better, with some more air and a bit more detail). So now I'll leave those resistors on, enjoying my HE6 and not worrying about damaging my leben.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Jian! Now that's impressive. It is always a rewarding experience when one can make their own mods & fixes.


----------



## cacatalysis

Very nice.  Would a hifiman adapter do the same as your resistors in terms of preventing a tube speaker amp from being damaged when using HE6 through speaker tap? 

  
  Quote: 





jian said:


> Reporting back from my pin cleaning and resistor testing.
> 
> After cleaning up pins,the noise floor stays very low but similar as before (when using HE6 through speaker tap or T1 through headphone output).
> 
> ...


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Jian! Now that's impressive. It is always a rewarding experience when one can make their own mods & fixes.


 

 Cheers!
   


  Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Very nice.  Would a hifiman adapter do the same as your resistors in terms of preventing a tube speaker amp from being damaged when using HE6 through speaker tap?


 

 The HE-adaptor should work the same way with a 10 ohm resistor per channel. But I think it also has some sort of protection circuit with capacitors and 25 ohm resistors in series to protect the AMP and the headphone. I guess it is safer to use the adaptor with some high power amps.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks for your answer.  Does Leben work well with both LCD3 (headphone out) and HE-6 (speaker out)?  How do they compare?


----------



## TruBrew

I used to have the HE-6, but sold it before I bought the Leben. Now reading that I want to buy another pair. I didn't think it would sound the same with resistors. Also you built such an elegant system for it.


----------



## Skylab

I use the Leben with the LCD-3 via the headphone out, and I think it's terrific.


----------



## cacatalysis

Is it safe (for Leben) to use the hifiman adapter with the speaker out of Leben for HE6?  Could Leben serve as a preamp?


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I used to have the HE-6, but sold it before I bought the Leben. Now reading that I want to buy another pair. I didn't think it would sound the same with resistors. Also you built such an elegant system for it.


 


  Thanks. I didn't know either before I tried it out


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Is it safe (for Leben) to use the hifiman adapter with the speaker out of Leben for HE6?  Could Leben serve as a preamp?


 


  It should be safe to use HE adaptor with leben. I don't think leben can be used as a preamp.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks Jian.  I am trying to find a solution for HE6.  It is a little bit frustrating.  I am guessing speaker out from a pure tube amp may be the best.  I hope Leben will provide a real solution for both LCD-3 and HE6.  Unfortunately,CS-300 is not available from Pricejapan the last time I checked.


----------



## Jian

I wonder if you can buy it from Hong Kong, Macao or Singapore online, but it would be 220 V version.


----------



## TruBrew

If you don't mind the Japanese 110v version, I am sure pricejapan can get it for you. I would just message them.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





shabta said:


> I have an HD800 and a Leben (230v). It sounds fantastic. I wouldn't trade it for anything else I have heard except maybe a stax 009 and a BHSE. I also use it with proac tablettes in a near field setup and they sound amazing. So yes go for it! Indulge, Indulge


 

 I use my Leben CS300X with Proac reference 8 signature speaker for near field listening. It is one of the finest set-ups i have owned. What I find most satisfying about this combination is that even at very low volume levels the Leben makes the Proac's really sing.


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> I use my Leben CS300X with Proac reference 8 signature speaker for near field listening. It is one of the finest set-ups i have owned. What I find most satisfying about this combination is that even at very low volume levels the Leben makes the Proac's really sing.


 


  Wow another Leben/HD800/Proac person! Mine are just the regular ref 8s, but yes to everything you said. Especially about the satisfaction at low volume-level listening.


----------



## MuppetFace

My new favorite setup:
   
  MacBook --> Onkyo DAC-1000 --> Leben CS300XS --> TakeT TR2 --> TakeT H2+
   
  Using the stereo inputs on the back of the Leben. There's a very faint hiss / buzz as when I used the headphone jack with certain headphones (HD800, T1) but the combination is so good I can look past that. I'm hoping that with a change of tubes it will be silent.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





shabta said:


> Wow another Leben/HD800/Proac person! Mine are just the regular ref 8s, but yes to everything you said. Especially about the satisfaction at low volume-level listening.


 

 Yes...also especially with the front grill off at low volumes and the tweeter positioned just below your ear level. Everything just hangs in TIME and SPACE that much longer making the soundstage open up and make it a more immersive listening experience. Also the ability of the Leben/Proac's to project sound behind your head in a low volume near field set-up quite something...IMHO


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> My new favorite setup:
> 
> MacBook --> Onkyo DAC-1000 --> Leben CS300XS --> TakeT TR2 --> TakeT H2+
> 
> Using the stereo inputs on the back of the Leben. There's a very faint hiss / buzz as when I used the headphone jack with certain headphones (HD800, T1) but the combination is so good I can look past that. I'm hoping that with a change of tubes it will be silent.


 

 Is the TR2 good for other headphones?


----------



## Jian

Hi guys, can the tape monitor be used as a preamp?


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





jian said:


> Is the TR2 good for other headphones?


 


  A few people have experienced good results, but TakeT warns not to use other headphones with it, so I don't plan on trying it.


----------



## authistic

Hi!
   
  Sorry for being so ignorant but some fast research brought up very different prices so I ask here:
   
  What price do I need to pay for a Leben 300 (approx.) ?
   
  greets


----------



## TruBrew

It may help to know what country you are in. Also do you want the 300, or 300XS. I am not sure if the proces change country by country, but I know the prices here in America are much higher than in Japan.
   
  Edit: Why don't you contact the distributor for Leben in your country. They obviously have the price list.


----------



## starfish

The U.S. price for the Leben CS300XS was $3,795 as of Nov. 30, 2011.  That price was stated to be raised for 2012 and may already be close to $4,500 now.


----------



## PedroH

Three questions:
  - What's the "tape monitor" switch?
  - What kind of inputs? RCA?
  - I have no experience with speakers but like the idea of buying this for headphones and keep the option to had speakers later. Can I had any good bookshelf speakers or should I care about technical specs to make a good match with the Leben? I just plug the speakers directly into the Leben without additional amp... right?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dminches

If you have a tape deck attached it gives you the opportunity to listen to either the source you are recording or the tape deck itself.  However, if you don't have a 3 head cassette deck you won't actually hear what the tape will sound like when you play it back.
   
  Yes - single ended RCA - unbalanced.
   
  Assuming you are sitting pretty close to the bookshelf speakers then the Leben will easily drive anything.  My totems are not that sensitive but they sound great with the Leben.  I play them at a much lower volume than I could.
   
  The Leben is an integrated amp.  You hook the speakers up directly to it.


----------



## PedroH

Thanks for the prompt reply!


----------



## cacatalysis

Jian,
   
  Have you found the answer to this question?  I also read somewhere that the Leben has a lineout, which outs on the back are the lineout.  Another question I have is:  With speaker out to Leben for HE6, which tubes were optimal in your experience.  Thanks.
  Quote: 





jian said:


> Hi guys, can the tape monitor be used as a preamp?


----------



## Skylab

The answer is no.  The Aleben has no preamp out, and the tape out isn't controlled by the volume pot, so it can't be used as a pre out.


----------



## cacatalysis

Skylab, Thanks for your answer.  Is the tape out the one that is referred by Gu Saisen as the "line out"?


----------



## Jian

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Jian,
> 
> Have you found the answer to this question?  I also read somewhere that the Leben has a lineout, which outs on the back are the lineout.  Another question I have is:  With speaker out to Leben for HE6, which tubes were optimal in your experience.  Thanks.


 

 Thanks to skylab, the question answered
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for what tubes, I find the NOS Sylvania triple mica 5751 and Sylvania 6BQ5 suit my taste very well.


----------



## Jian

Did some more tweaking, put on some mills non-inductive resistors and reissue Genalex gold lion 12AX7/6BQ5 precision matched sets. The sound changes flavor. Not necessarily better, but the sound become a touch more energetic, younger, if you like, and a bit less mellow.


----------



## cacatalysis

Hi Jian, Is it easy to change a 220V to 110-120 v on Leben?  Other than the tubes comes with the amp, are there any other difference between CS-300 and CS-300X.  Some also described noise issues even with HD800, how is your experience?  Thanks.


----------



## cacatalysis

Hi Jian, I read your previous posts about how to deal with noise floor.  Voltage is the only thing that prevents me from getting one.


----------



## Jian

With 300x, I think you get 5W more power, and some premium parts that 300 does not have. And it would be very hard to convert a 220v unit to 110v, I think (not sure), because you need to change all the transformers. I guess the easer solution would be to get a power conditioner to cook up the voltage.


----------



## cacatalysis

Using a voltage converter is not a big deal.  I use one for sme amplifier I have bought from Japan.  The difference between the premium parts or not is not something that can be fixed.  If I went for a leben, a CS300X would be the one.  How does the leben compare with luxman SQ-N100?  From information here, I sense the luxman is the darker sounding one.  That may make them a good pairing with HD800 and HE6.


----------



## Skylab

FWIW, Leben has said that for headphone use the CS-300 and CS-300XS should not be any different. When I compared the two side by side, I heard only minor differences, which could easily be attributed to the different tube sets in each. I elected to keep the CS-300. I've never regretted that.


----------



## cacatalysis

Skylab,  How do you compare Leben and WA22 for driving HD800?


----------



## Skylab

I preferred the WA22. Probably the ONLY headphone where I did prefer it...I was a bit disappointed with the WA22, overall, but it was VERY synergistic with the HD-800 I thought.


----------



## cacatalysis

I was about to sell my HD800 until I tried the 596 with adapter as the rectifier (introduced to me by Golfnutz).  The combination of TS7236/RCA or TS 6F8G/596 is the best to my ears for HD800 on WA22.  Now back to Leben, I got quite a few Amperex 6085(E80CC, PQ), do you think I can use them in CS300 to substitute 5751/12AX7?  I also have some IEC/Mullard EL84 (60's vintage, marked as made in GR Britain), are those as good as the Mullard EL34?  I also have one pair of RCA red command 5751, I am wondering if you have tried the RCAs.


----------



## Skylab

I would definitely not use the 6085 in the Leben.  They might draw too much heater current for the Transformer.
   
  mullard EL84's (original UK ones) are VERY highly regarded.


----------



## cacatalysis

Sky, I asked Leben about the 6085 tubes.  The following is the answer from Mr. Yosshi Hontani.  
   
  6085 is not perfectly compatible to 12AX7, as this tube is a similar
 tube to 12AU7.
  6060 is compatible to 12AX7/5751 perfectly.
  6085 does not cause a damage in CS300, however, input sensitivity
 of CS300 will decrease by using 6085 and you need to increase the
 volume level more than 12AX7.
   
  From my reading the 6085 has a higher gain than 12AU7 (also draws more current).  It is generally advised not to treat it as a drop in replacement for 12AX7 or 12AU7, always check with the amp designer and manufacturer. 
   
  I am expecting to receive a CS300 in the near future.  I have no idea how the 6085 tubes will sound.  Hopefully, the lower sensitivity will work well with headphones and bring lower level of hiss and hum for certain phones.  I consulted quite a few here before my decision to buy, thanks for your advise and for sharing your impressions and views.


----------



## Skylab

Interesting answer from Leben, thanks for posting it.  However, he is actually wrong about one thing. The 6060 is a 12AT7, not a 12AX7.  The 6057, 6681, and 7025 are all 12AX7 equivalents.  
   
  Interesting to note that the CS-300 can use a 12AU7 (and I suspect a 12AT7) without concern, as that could open up some interesting tube rolling possibilities. Still, I am so pleased with the 5751 in the Leben (the 5751 has slightly less gain than a 12AX7) that I doubt I will try it


----------



## cacatalysis

Just received my Leben CS300 today from tubenews.  Only had a short listen to both HD800 and HE6, and the latter from the speaker tap, stock tubes only.  I enjoyed both from the Leben, which is really good news to me.  From the speaker tap, the HE6 (with APS V3) is a truly outstanding phone, definitely at the same level as the HD800 (with a balanced DHC complement cable).  With HD800, the soundstage is better (deeper) from Leben than from WA22.  The tone is different, a little bit more forward than the Woo,  but I found it overall a very, very enjoyable listen.  I am very impressed so far and am happy that I get the Leben.  Of course, I am wondering about the impact of tube rolling now


----------



## Jian

congrads, let the fun started!


----------



## cacatalysis

Jian, Could you tell me whether 7189 tubes could be used in Leben?
   
  Tube rolling is about to start.  I received a pair of sylvania 5751 black plates triple mica (not goldpin).  Does your 5751 have gold pins?
   
  I am listening HE6 right now from Leben speaker tab now.  I finally feel that I see the full capacity of HE6.  I read your beautifully written review on headphoneclub, my impressions pretty much mirror yours.  Clean, tight sound with a touch of tube magic, leben does this at an extremely high level.


----------



## Jian

Glad you like the leben and my post! My 5751 have gold pins, but the gold faded quit a bit. The 7189 is designed for circuits operating in the 400 volt range, and the EL84/6BQ5 is designed for the 300 volt range. I think you can safely substitute a 7189 tube for a 6BQ5, but not vis versa. I'm not 100% sure, and I think Skylab knows better.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks for the information regarding 7189.  I am listening to HE6 with Mullard EL84 and Sylvania 5751.  The sound is more refined and smoother than that from the stock EH 12AX7 and Sovtek EL84.  Nontheless, I still enjoy the stock set very much.  Reading your post is critical to my final decision to buy a Leben.  I have a pre-out on my WA22.  At certain point I will try that with Leben as a pre/amp pair to see what happens.


----------



## Skylab

I wouldn't use a 7189.  First of all I don't think it would behave optimally, but second of all, the 7189's i have heard (in other amps) didn't sound very good.  I know it's tempting as 6BQ5's can be expensive.  But I would resist the temptation.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks Skylab for sharing your knowledge about 7189.  By the way, I tried a pair of Mullard 6085 with a set of Mullard EL84 in my Leben today.  There is no problem.  The soundstage is wider compared to RCA command 5751 and Sylvania.  The sound signature seems to be brighter (never overly).  For HD800 I prefer RCA command 5751 and Mullard EL84 (a very nice combination).  But I wonder whether the 6085 may work well with a LCD.  I will try to get a set Sylvania 6BQ5.  It is a wonderful amp, overall better than the WA22 even for HD800 to my ears.


----------



## vert

So are there any differences between the 300x and 300xs besides the tubes? I've been reading online, and I think there was a review of a custom version of the 300x, so that confused me.
   
  edit: I found out they are both the same except for the tubes.


----------



## badwisdom

Heyall,
   
  well picked up my 300xs from the dealer yesterday and while its a bit early to say anything, i just got my ***** kicked badly with some orchestral music (Crimson Tide by Hans Zimmer).
   
  Wow, just wow can this thing sing.
   
  More impressions to follow.
   
  Cheers
  Xavier
   
  PS: associated equipment -> Wadia S7i GNSC -> Leben 300xs -> LCD-2 rev 1
   
  PPS: Leben is 230V and even with the LCD-2, there is a ever so slight hum... very low and not a real issue, but some people asked the question so thats my XPerience with it


----------



## Jian

Glad you like it! Congrads! The hum is not an issue, and changing tubes may lower your noise floor.


----------



## Detex

Congrads on your new Amp. This is one of the nicest amps I have listened to in a long time. There is a place down the street from me called In Living Stereo (NYC) who has this through some Devore Silverbacks and it really singes. I keep telling myself I will have one someday!


----------



## cacatalysis

congratulations!  I got mine last week and am having great fun.  I am sure you are too.


----------



## cacatalysis

Just a follow up of my previous post about 6085 tubes.  I tried a pair of NOS mullard 6085 and a pair of NOS amperex 6085.  After 7-8 hours, the  mullard performed very well for the HD800, very good for the HE6 too (speaker tap).  The amperex, although just put in for less than one hour this morning, sounded very, very promising for the HE6, much better than the sylvania and RCA 5751s I have.  All of these were tested with Mullard EL84 as power tubes.  I read the Mullard EL84 new issues are quite nice also, have anybody tried that in the Leben?  
  
  Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Sky, I asked Leben about the 6085 tubes.  The following is the answer from Mr. Yosshi Hontani.
> 
> 6085 is not perfectly compatible to 12AX7, as this tube is a similar
> tube to 12AU7.
> ...


----------



## badwisdom

Noticed something weird today while changing inputs. While a CD is playing on CD input, I can still hear music in my LCD2's when i select the other inputs. It is low volume but you can clearly hear it. Is this normal ?


----------



## Makube

Hi y'all, first post here!

 I've got a couple questions about the Leben cs300 (not the XS version).

 Having read nearly every post in this thread I feel like I understand a bit about this amp, but I'm a bit worried about my upcoming purchase of a used Leben cs300.

 First of all: it has had at least two owners before me. The second owner bought it from a well-known store though, but should I be worried about the fact that the amp has got at least 6 years (maybe more) on it's neck? Except for a possible tube-switch, is there anything that could have gotten severely old in this time period?

 Second: my girlfriend is going to visit some friends in the texas, and since we live in sweden I thought she could get some tubes for me while over there, since the swedish currency is quite strong compared to the dollar right now. I like a "rounded off" treble, don't mind the sound beeing a bit on the warm side, and preferably a tight bottom end.

 Any suggestions? Has to be new tubes because of the RoHS directive in EU. Exception is if there are NOS tubes that can be imported to sweden without problem.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Jian

I wouldn't worry about the unit Itself, as long as you roll the tubes. As for buying tubes in US, let's wait for US headfiers to answer.


----------



## Skylab

Makube,
   
  One cannot really buy NOS tubes in the US from a physical store.  Those basically have to be bought online.  It may be that Guitar Center stores sell Current production tubes in their stores - I'm not sure.  And there might be a very few high end audio stores that do, but that certainly will not be the cheapest place to get them.
   
  I buy NOS tubes from the UK online all the time.  You might consider that - I have have had good luck with this company : http://www.langrex.co.uk/


----------



## Jian

Thanks for the tip skylab, very useful for me as well!


----------



## Makube

Thanks to both of you! I checked out the website, but I got a bit confused regarding the stock lists. 6BQ5/EL84 was listaed as 20 tubes in stock, but the brand/version was not present in the list. Only a few selected tubes were displayed on the site. Am i reading it wrong? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And skylab, do you have a list of tubes you prefer in the leben? Both preamp and power tubes! From what I gather you're somewhat of an expert on the subject!


----------



## Skylab

Lots of good choices.  I personally only tried and used vintage NOS tubes.  Of these I ended up setting on the Raytheon black plate triple mica windmill getter 5751 for the preamp tubes, and black plate Sylvania 6BQ5's for the power tubes.


----------



## Makube

I can only get ahold of Philips marked Mullard EL84 and sylvania black plates. Which of the following preamp tubes would you bet on to go along with the power tubes? And are the Philips marked mullards as good as regular?


Siemens 5751 triple mica
RCA 5751 black plates
Sylvania 5751 Gold Brand triple mica
Sylvania 5751 double mica, vit text, grey plates, closed O getter
General Electric 5751, triple mica
Sylvania 5751, Gold Brand, gold pins, triple mica
General Electric, double mica, 5 stars


----------



## Skylab

All of those preamp tubes should sound great.  I have used all of them except the Siemens, can't comment on that.  
   
  It isn't enough to say "Philips marked Mullard".  Are they actually Mullard UK made? Or are they made by Philips in Holland? In either case by the way they are nice tubes.


----------



## badwisdom

badwisdom said:


> Noticed something weird today while changing inputs. While a CD is playing on CD input, I can still hear music in my LCD2's when i select the other inputs. It is low volume but you can clearly hear it. Is this normal ?




Anyone ?


----------



## Skylab

I have never had that problem on mine.


----------



## cacatalysis

Any impression of Raytheon (or CBS) 7729 vs Raytheon Windmill 5751 or Amperex 12ax7 d-getter would be appreciated.  Any suggestions for optimal tube combo for LCD3?  Thanks.


----------



## badwisdom

The best my system has ever sounded.

 The Linn + Leben + LCD2 combo is particularly heavenly and has the sound I've been looking for so long. So sweet but not syrupy, so detailed but not fatiguing, so heavy but not bombastic.
   
  Not fair on the Wadia which hasn't broken yet, but enjoying it so much i don't really care.
   
  What i love of the Leben: it has this unique hand made feel, has little quirks which adds to the charm, then seduces you with that music it makes without any effort at all. And i haven't tested it with speakers yet.
   
  Need one last piece, a power conditioner, and ill be set for a while. I hope.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





badwisdom said:


> The best my system has ever sounded.
> 
> The Linn + Leben + LCD2 combo is particularly heavenly and has the sound I've been looking for so long. So sweet but not syrupy, so detailed but not fatiguing, so heavy but not bombastic.
> 
> ...


 

  
  I tried the CS300 with a LCD-3 and it was the single best headphone experience in my life. The sense of air moving and holographic soundstage this headphone produce with this amp is unbelievable. The LCD-2 was great, but the LCD-3 where on a whole new level IMO. I listened mostly to perfectly produced classical music which made the difference even bigger between the headphones though. When I listened shortly to poorer quality rock the edge was still with the LCD-3, but not as clear.


----------



## cacatalysis

Could you share your what tubes you used in Leben for LCD3? Thanks


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Could you share your what tubes you used in Leben for LCD3? Thanks


 


  I tried the CS300 out in a high end store, so I'm sure they where stock tubes.


----------



## Sweden

The guy in the audio store said the CS300 where a little less analytical than the CS300X(S). Any opinions regarding this?


----------



## Skylab

Well, FWIW, that wasn't my opinion. But then I felt the differences between the two were very small, and less than the differences between tube complements.


----------



## vert

badwisdom said:


> The best my system has ever sounded.
> 
> The Linn + Leben + LCD2 combo is particularly heavenly and has the sound I've been looking for so long. So sweet but not syrupy, so detailed but not fatiguing, so heavy but not bombastic.


 
   
  I probably have an idea of what you're listening to. I had a Leben/Naim DAC combo that was just heavenly. Playing files through the USB stick on the Naim was so analog sounding, and paired with Leben, well, one can live with this setup for a long time.


----------



## badwisdom

Any more comments on a Leben 300XS versus Liquid Fire ?
   
  Im tempted to get the second one to drive my yet to arrive pair of HD800, but wondering if theres that much difference.


----------



## cacatalysis

Are raytheon 7729 tubes the same as CBS 7729 tubes?  Thanks


----------



## telecaster

Never been discussd it seems, but you should be able to replace the 5751 with 12AY7.
  5751 are 70% gain of 12AX7
  12AY7 are 50% gain of 12AX7, should sound even sweeter, at least that's what guitar player experience with tweed fender amps.
   
  It's only a hypothesys, should be carefull with tube equivalence. But for headphone playback lower gain is better with CS300X leben righ?


----------



## Skylab

12AY7 is actually 40% of the gain of a 12AX7 (mu of 40 for 12AY7 vs mu of 100 for 12AX7). I'm not sure what the more than 2x plate current of the 12AY7 would mean in the context of the Leben. I have never tried them.


----------



## telecaster

In theory only, reducing gain at imput stage will allow more sweetness from the power tubes, that's how we guitar tube amp lovers see the equation. It also elevates the clean headroom for us, thought about it seeing the high price NOS 5751 were getting and as new production 5751 were becoming high gain.
  All that is very dependant on the source imput gain, the higher ones may benefit from this to elevate clean headroom and reducing possible distorsion. Power tube when more driven in the 15W CS300X should also sound more warm and sweet.
  I never read 12AX7/5751/ to 12AY7 switch to be dangerous in guitar amps, but that's guitar amps not audio ones! Be carefull out there!
   
  Thought about it and thought I could share this observation although I don't want anybody to hurt their loverly CS300x!
   
  It's also should be noted that modifying the preamp gain will modify the tone globally and have adverse effect the designer never intended to, but in a headphone only use perspective it's a possible way of getting more goodness from the power tubes.
   
  It was discussed the use 12AU7 here previously, isn't that 20% gain of 12AX7?


----------



## cacatalysis

Could anybody tell me how to identify 1950's mullard EL84 (getter, date code etc)?  I know rx1 date code is an indication of early mullard, how about rx2 type?  I hope these rx1 or 2 mullard el84s are not the same as the amperex or the phillips D-getters.   Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I believe rX1 and rX2 would both be EL84 made by Philips in Eindhoven.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks.  Ar they the ones that people refer to when talking about 1950 mullard el84?


----------



## Skylab

What are the NEXT three letters/numbers after the rX1 or rX2?


----------



## cacatalysis

B80


----------



## cacatalysis

Here is the description of code for the rx2s, which is a little bit strange.
   
  [size=medium]MULLARD  EL84 6BQ5  both are coded  rx2 1023-425 [/size]


----------



## Skylab

OK so the "B" in the rX1 I believe indicates Mullard Blackburn. The "1" in the 1023 of the rX2 I think it Phillips Eindhoven. But interpreting the Mullard-Philips codes isn't always easy.

My Mullard EL84's all use "kM" as the tube type indicator, not "rX" - and my Philips all use rX. But according to the code list, EL84's can be either rX or kM, and it is supposed to be the first charachter of the NEXT group that indicates the factory.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks.  I already collected quite a few amperex 50s d-getter.  I just worry these mullard are actually the same as the amperex. 
   
  I tried RCA command 5751 with amperex el84 d-getter.  The results with HD800 are better than anything I have heard so far with HD800,including WA22 equipped with GEC 6AS7G/TS BSRP/EML 5u4g and others involving 6F8G.  I will be getting a pair of CBS 7729 later this week.  I hope it will top the RCAs.  The sylvania 5751 with sylvania 6BQ5 is also an excellent combo.  What is the best combo for LCD3?


----------



## Skylab

I couldn't say what is the best tube combo for the Leben with the LCD-3, but I am using Raytheon triple mica windmill getter 5751 and GE 6BQ5's which I think sound great.


----------



## cacatalysis

Raytheon windmill is next on my list to get.  I have the choice to go for 7729 vs 5751 windmiill, decided to go for the 7729 as they are very rare.  Are sylvania triple mica balck plates better than sylvania gold brand 5751?


----------



## Skylab

There are lots of different Gold Brand Sylvania 5751's. I have some that are 2 mica grey plate, and so e that are 3 mica black plates


----------



## cacatalysis

Any type sonically stands out?


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Raytheon windmill is next on my list to get.  I have the choice to go for 7729 vs 5751 windmiill, decided to go for the 7729 as they are very rare.  Are sylvania triple mica balck plates better than sylvania gold brand 5751?


 


  I think one of the main reasons for 7729's superlative performance is its vanishingly low noise floor (almost complete black background). To really appreciate what these tubes are capable of you ought to listen to well recorded live music (Roxy Music live at Apollo theater 2001 immediately comes to mind + many others i am sure). That said, in my experience it is never about one tube type...its more about the synergy of different tubes in your audio chain.
   
  In my current set-up i have settled for Amperex 7316 foil d-getter (EE Minimax op-amp modified) ---> Raytheon 7729 + NOS Mullard EL84 (Leben CS-300x). But I recall when I was using Pavane 12au7 in my Minimax DAC I preferred Amperex EL84 d-getter to the Mullards. All this might change again when I finish building the Audio Note DAC 4.1 which I currently have on order...as I will then have to deal with 3 more tube types (6X5, ECL82 & 5687).


----------



## cacatalysis

I got great results with CBS 7729 and RCA red command 5751 using amperexx EL 84 d-getter.  Is there a big difference between 50s and 60s mullard el84?  Have you tried mullard 12ax7s?  Leben is so transparent, a fantastic amp but sometime will give people very different impressions.  I completely agree with your opinion that with Leben all the components along the audio chain matter.


----------



## BugleBoy

Now that you have used the 7729 for a few days...would be great to hear your thoughts.


----------



## cacatalysis

After 10 hours, they make my HD800 (driven by Leben) a pair of fantastic speakers.  Big and impactful sound with details and balanced yet full tonality.  Absolutely the best 5751/12ax7 in my collections.  They will save me money, as now I can sell some of my amps and tubes.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

According to the Price Japan website, the Leben line is due for a 30% price increase on April 23, which pretty much forces the hand of this admirer of Mr. Hyodo's sonic masterpieces to purchase a CS300XS now from Tone Imports. Without wading through the entire thread, I am hoping for some info from the resident experts regarding the synergy of this amp with my current inventory of cans which includes the LCD-3, PS1000, HD800 & 650, ATH-W3000ANV, and the D7000.
   
  My main concern is if this little beauty can drive both low as well as high impedance cans equally well. Any thoughts as to how the Leben compares with the EAR HP4 would also be greatly appreciated.
   
  Thanks in advance for any and all pertinent info.


----------



## Skylab

I like the Leben a great deal with both the LCD-3 and the W3000ANV. Especially the AT - very nice combo there.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Those two were actually my greatest concern. Thanks Skylab. The HP4 and the Grados are a match made in heaven though some think having an affair between Senns and the EAR is sure divorce material although I have spent many an enjoyable hour with the two and the Grados haven't left me.......yet.


----------



## nd4speed

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I like the Leben a great deal with both the LCD-3 and the W3000ANV. Especially the AT - very nice combo there.


 


  I agree the Leben is absolutely fabulous with the LCD-3. I'm looking at branching out and was considering an HE-6 (with the speaker adapter), or HD800 for this amp; what do you think has better synergy?


----------



## Skylab

I think if you want something different, the HD-800 will be more different. So I might go that route, although between that and the HE-6, I do prefer the HE-6, personally.


----------



## nd4speed

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think if you want something different, the HD-800 will be more different. So I might go that route, although between that and the HE-6, I do prefer the HE-6, personally.


 


  Ah, thanks for info Skylab. Decisions, decisions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The only think slightly off-putting about the HE-6 adapter to me is that I can't easily switch between speaker and headphone output. I'd be perfect if there were pass-through speaker terminals and a switch to take the adapter in and out of the circuit. If anyone knows of such an animal please chime in.


----------



## cacatalysis

I use my Leben for HD800 and HE6(speaker out via hifiman adapter).  I do not know how to find a device to switch between speakers and headphone from the speaker out.  I am extremely happy with Leben driving both headphones.  The tubes in my Leben are CBS 7729/Amperex EL84 d-getters.  No other combination comes close in my experience.  Finally, my WA22 could not keep up with the Leben with these tubes no matter what tube combo I use for WA22, which I have nearly all the popular tubes for WA22.


----------



## Lallas

I just wonder how it will work with my Audeze-LCD-2.
  I've had them for a couple of months now,together with Violectric HPA V200 and the Red Astrachan cable.
  I'm very satisfied. But still....
  I can't get the LebenCS300XS out of my head. Looks on it and reads about it everyday.
  Someone said to me that LebenCS300X has little difficulties to drive HiFiMan HE-6 properly,but he didn't know how it would work with the LCD-2?.
  So I wonder what you say about it together with my LCD-2?


----------



## dminches

The Leben and the LCD-2s are a great combination.  I listened to that for a good while until I upgraded to the LCD-3s.


----------



## Lallas

Thank you!
  I'm getting closer to them now.
  But as I have no chance of trying my Audeze LCD-2 on a Leben. I have maybe 3000 kilometres no the nearest one.
  I want to know as much as possible for I order one.
  I just got some words from mr. Yoshi Hontani at the Leben company. He said:"Some people said CS-300XS is the best for LCD-2 and some people said
 CS-300XS is not enough to drive LCD-2."
  It would be nice to hear if there are any one out there who thinks that the LebenCS300XS is not enough to drive Audeze LCD-2 or LCD-3?


----------



## TruBrew

I think the Leben with the LCD-2/3 is incredible. it got louder than I would have ever wanted. I found that it would distort if I turned it up to 12, but my normal listening level was about 9, so their was plenty more room I didn't need. 
   
  If I remember correctly they changed the Leben. Someone else could likely fill you in on all of this, because I don't remember much of it.. All I remember is that people with the "revised" version complained about it with the LCD-2. They may have adjusted the gain, but like I said, I don't remember.


----------



## cacatalysis

Which tubes you used in Leben when listening LCDs?  I have only used my Leben for HD800 and HE6.  The CBS7729/Amperex EL84 d-getter combo is just incredible.  These CBS7729 totally destroyed my other 12ax7/5751 tubes, which include amperex long plate d-getter, RCA red command and sylvania tirple mica black plates.  If you get a chance, give the 7729 tubes a try.


----------



## badwisdom

Quote: 





lallas said:


> Thank you!
> I'm getting closer to them now.
> But as I have no chance of trying my Audeze LCD-2 on a Leben. I have maybe 3000 kilometres no the nearest one.
> I want to know as much as possible for I order one.
> ...


 

 I have a 2 month old Leben and had a LCD2r1 until last week. It was an AMAZING match and provides a lot of headroom for driving it. I usually listen at 10, by 12 it gets extremely loud and uncomfortable, but it doesnt clip or distort, at least not with my source.
   
  Its a no risk blind buy


----------



## Lallas

First I just must say that I really LOVE this Head Fi forum!!!!
  I write some words........and get so much knowledge back. For someone like me,very much a novice in these matters,I couldn't live without your help.
  I got some words from the Leben company about this:.
  "As we exported two types of CS-300X(S), one has 0.8W output for Headphone
 and the other has 1.0W, therefore, we guess 0.8W type is a bit weaker
 for LCD-2.
 All recent CS-300XS are arranged 1.0W headphone output, however, we
 still are not 100% sure and would like to suggest you to try your
 LCD-2 with CS-300XS before you purchas"
   
  But someone just wrote me and said that:
  "I really like the Leben CS300XS however when it comes to headphone outputs its really not for people who need/want to listen to their music loud.  Otherwise I love the combination."
  So I get a little cunfused here.
  On my Violectric HPA V200 I have to use the Gain thing on the back on the Amp,and put it on +12. And then I'm between 10.00 and 14.00 normally . Sometimes I can go all the way.
  According to those who make it maximum loudness is +6/+12.
  I know I have some hearing problems here,due to excessive listening for more than 40 years.


----------



## Skylab

If you need more volume than the CS300 can give from the LCD-2, this problem will not last very long, as you will soon be deaf.


----------



## Lallas

I guess that you're right.
  I keep on hearing the same words from my woman and my daughter.
  But it's kind of hard to not keep on walking that road.
  It's so easy to just turn up the volume.
  So far Violectric HPA V200 has enough strength.But it would be nice to hear what you say about that Amp?
  But now I know what you think about Leben.. I've been waiting for words from you! They mean a lot to me.


----------



## Skylab

I've never heard the Violectric. But I think the LCD-2/3 and the Leben are terrific together, and I have for a long time


----------



## nd4speed

You'll have no problems with gain on that headphone. I'm at around 9:00 on dial and it's loud. As far as the wattage, that figure doesn't mean much without knowing into what impedance load that corresponds to.

 Let's assert that he knew that you were talking about the LCD-2 and he quoted you on the appropriate impedance rating of 60 ohms. Since the sensitivity of the LCD-2 is 91 dB/1mW, at .8W you're looking at 100 dB, which is really loud (dBSPL = Sensitivity in dB/mW + 10 * LOG ( Pmax in mW)).
   
  FYI, at one watt it's 101 dB, so you're not looking at a world of difference.


----------



## Skylab

At 100 dB, you start to do permanent damage to your hearing in just 2 hours, and that assumes you have no other loud noise exposure in that same day.


----------



## RedBull

I'm listening to Leben with Ref 7.1 as source, delicious ..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and that is only at 9 o'clock.


----------



## vert

Just a heads up for all Leben fans. I picked up an Altmann Tera Player DAP. It has an organic rightness and tonality that is _very similar_ to the CS300. In fact, it reminds me of the Leben, but in portable form. If you see one used, it is definitely worth picking up. It's up there for me with the Leben as a prized possession.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





vert said:


> Just a heads up for all Leben fans. I picked up an Altmann Tera Player DAP. It has an organic rightness and tonality that is _very similar_ to the CS300. In fact, it reminds me of the Leben, but in portable form. If you see one used, it is definitely worth picking up. It's up there for me with the Leben as a prized possession.


 
   
  Does it have the power to drive harder to drive headphones? How is it with sensitive IEM's?


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'm fairly interested in one of these as I'm also looking for an integrated tube amp for future speaker endeavors...
   
  I've been looking at PrimLuna integrated stuff because of their recent good press, but then I remembered that Leben was well liked for their headphone sections as well as their speaker outs. 
   
  Has anyone paired these with Zus or possibly some Quad 21s?
   
  I think it'd be nice to get a headphone amp alongside the integrated I would need down the line. 
   
  Oh, and to anyone that's heard both...Is the headphone section in the 300 different from the one in the 300XS? The XS seems to be the popular choice but price does jump up a few hundred dollars.


----------



## Skylab

I didn't find any appreciable difference between the 300 and the 300XS with headphones. It's important to note that there is no headphone "section". It's just a switch that takes a different tap of the output transformer versus the one that goes to the speakers. But it's the exact same amp for headphones or speakers other than the impedance of the output transformer winding.


----------



## MorbidToaster

skylab said:


> I didn't find any appreciable difference between the 300 and the 300XS with headphones. It's important to note that there is no headphone "section". It's just a switch that takes a different tap of the output transformer versus the one that goes to the speakers. But it's the exact same amp for headphones or speakers other than the impedance of the output transformer winding.




No chance you got to try them both with speakers as well is there? The specs only really state 3wpc more and I'd like to think there's a bit more to it than that.

Thanks for clarification.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> No chance you got to try them both with speakers as well is there? The specs only really state 3wpc more and I'd like to think there's a bit more to it than that.
> Thanks for clarification.


 
   
  No, did not compare them with speakers, sorry.


----------



## badwisdom

Well received my LCD3 non veiled. While the LCD2r1 sounded spectacular with the Leben, the LCD3 don't: they are seriously underpowered with the leben.
   
  Guess ill have to look for another amp and use the Leben with the HD800. Or maybe buy another LCD2 but a r2 ?
   
  This hobby never ends...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





badwisdom said:


> Well received my LCD3 non veiled. While the LCD2r1 sounded spectacular with the Leben, the LCD3 don't: they are seriously underpowered with the leben.
> 
> Guess ill have to look for another amp and use the Leben with the HD800. Or maybe buy another LCD2 but a r2 ?
> 
> This hobby never ends...


 
   
  I am very surprised to hear that.  I too started out with the LCD2r1s and loved them.  I then moved up to the LCD3-s and it brought everything to a new level.  Regarding the Leben's ability to power them, while I used to listen with the volume control at 9 o'clock it is now 1 click closer to 10 o'clock.  The difference is really minor although the LCD-3s do need a tad more power.  However, I have never felt them were under powered.  I would go deaf if I ever cranked it even close to 12 o'clock.


----------



## badwisdom

Well with the LCD3 ive tried pushing the Leben to 12 because i felt it was congested even at 10. Distortion starts around 11:30 and dominates at 12.
   
  I never got any distortion of any kind with my LCD2r1.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Skylab

I had read (but have no way to confirm) that newer Lebens had reduced power into the headphone out. I'm not really sure if it's true, if it is exactly what they would have done (dropping resistor?) or if that could be your problem, but like Minches, my CS300 has no issue driving the LCD-3 to beyond levels at which I listen (I listen at safe levels, however, average of 80dB A weighted).


----------



## starfish

My CS-300XS was produced in Sept. 2011.  There is absolutely no lack of power with headphones. Pushing the volume over 10:00 is just painful and destructive.  
   
  This makes me wonder if the issue is not one related to the source.  If you're not getting adequate volume, you may have a unit in disrepair (unlikely), worn tubes (possible), or low input gain caused by the source (probable).


----------



## nd4speed

Quote: 





badwisdom said:


> Well with the LCD3 ive tried pushing the Leben to 12 because i felt it was congested even at 10. Distortion starts around 11:30 and dominates at 12.
> 
> I never got any distortion of any kind with my LCD2r1.
> 
> Cheers


 
  Yikes that loud! I've had the unveil treatment done to mine as well but 10 on the dial is as high as I've ever gone (I'm usually just under 9:30). At 10 I'd get a ear ache with any kind of prolonged listening. Where are you on the dial with other headphones?


----------



## badwisdom

Quote: 





nd4speed said:


> Yikes that loud! I've had the unveil treatment done to mine as well but 10 on the dial is as high as I've ever gone (I'm usually just under 9:30). At 10 I'd get a ear ache with any kind of prolonged listening. Where are you on the dial with other headphones?


 
   
  I actually listen to the LCD3 just under 10, but i find a lack of presence of voices and an over pronounced bass, which is very close to a 'spitting' effect. When i push the volume past 10, its like not much happens to the actual volume level, but the spitting effect increases until i reach 11:30 / 12 where there is high distortion.
   
  When i use the HD800, anything past 9:30 is extremely loud, but there is no distortion and a regular increase in volume level, no difference in layering presence (voices seem as present as medium or bass).

 Either my source is underpowered for the LCD3 (its 2V output) or my LCD3's have a problem.


----------



## ardilla

1) The CS300XS used to be produced with two diferent verions headphone-wise: 
   
  Email from Leben 
   
_*[size=13.333333015441895px]In the past there were two types of CS-300X, one has 1000mW headphone[/size][size=13.333333015441895px][/size]
 [size=13.333333015441895px]output, and the other has 800mW for high efficiency headphones.[/size]*[size=13.333333015441895px][/size]
 [size=13.333333015441895px][/size]
 [size=13.333333015441895px]Please refer to the attached schematic diagram for CS-300X.[/size][size=13.333333015441895px][/size]
 [size=13.333333015441895px]There is 270ohms [/size][size=13.333333015441895px]resistor[/size][size=13.333333015441895px] at the headphone out.[/size][size=13.333333015441895px][/size]
 [size=13.333333015441895px]By replacing this [/size][size=13.333333015441895px]resistor[/size][size=13.333333015441895px] by 1K ohms(30W) [/size][size=13.333333015441895px]resistor[/size][size=13.333333015441895px], the headphone[/size][size=13.333333015441895px][/size]
 [size=13.333333015441895px]output will be reduced to 800mW.[/size]_
   
   


skylab said:


> I had read (but have no way to confirm) that newer Lebens had reduced power into the headphone out. I'm not really sure if it's true, if it is exactly what they would have done (dropping resistor?) or if that could be your problem, but like Minches, my CS300 has no issue driving the LCD-3 to beyond levels at which I listen (I listen at safe levels, however, average of 80dB A weighted).


   


   
   
   
  2) 
   
Anybody knows the *headphone output impedance* of CS-600 and/or CS-300
   
Sombody has been told that the output impedance of the CS-600 is 1030 ohm??? This seems very odd, but I might have missed something..


----------



## Skylab

Where did you read that?

I'm not familiar with the CS600. But the CS300 is transformer coupled. It's possible to have an output that high, I suppose, but very, very unlikely.

My understanding, based on piecing together various bits of information, including several emails from Leben, is that the headphone out is a 32ohm winding from the output transformer. The Leben designer has stated that the CS300's headphone out was "optimized for a 32 ohm headphone impedance", and there is no doubt that the headphone out is a secondary winding of the output transformer.


----------



## nd4speed

Quote: 





badwisdom said:


> Either my source is underpowered for the LCD3 (its 2V output) or my LCD3's have a problem.


 
  2 Vrms is well within spec for unbalanced RCA connections (perhaps a bit low, but I think most consumer gear is, so quite normal). If you have access to a digital multimeter I would measure them, but based on your results with other phones it sounds like a problem with your LCD-3s.


----------



## badwisdom

ok i don't get it. I just received and installed my new Accuphase preamp. The headphone output level is a standard 2V (40 ohm) with a + or - 10db setting.
   
  I was expecting the same results, an underpowered LCD3 compared to the HD800 but.....The HD800 actually needs more power on the volume knob than the LCD3 !! Out of 10, i can't use the LCD3 above 4 without destroying my ears, while that is the comfortable listening level for the HD800.
   
  How is this possible ???? Is this a tube thing ?


----------



## Skylab

Are you saying that is the result using the headphone out of the Accuphase?
   
  All that means is that the Accuphase is much more comfortable driving the 50 ohm load of the LCD-3 than the 300 ohm (plus) load of the HD-800.  The HD-800 boast the much higher efficiency rating, but the efficiency rating is at 1 kHz, as is the impedance rating, and the HD-800 are much higher than 300 ohms impedance throughout much of the bass region, and are likely much less efficient there too, I suspect.


----------



## badwisdom

skylab said:


> Are you saying that is the result using the headphone out of the Accuphase?
> 
> All that means is that the Accuphase is much more comfortable driving the 50 ohm load of the LCD-3 than the 300 ohm (plus) load of the HD-800.  The HD-800 boast the much higher efficiency rating, but the efficiency rating is at 1 kHz, as is the impedance rating, and the HD-800 are much higher than 300 ohms impedance throughout much of the bass region, and are likely much less efficient there too, I suspect.




Thanks that makes a lot of sense.

But shouldn't that be the same rule for any amp, Leben included ? How to explain the Leben driving the HD800 easily (10 on the volume max) and struggling with the LCD3 ?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





badwisdom said:


> Thanks that makes a lot of sense.
> But shouldn't that be the same rule for any amp, Leben included ? How to explain the Leben driving the HD800 easily (10 on the volume max) and struggling with the LCD3 ?


 
   
  Different amplifier topologies will interact differently with headphones of different impedances. But in the case of the Leben, I cannot explain what you are experiencing, because my Leben does not behave the way yours does...mine has no issue at all driving either headphone.


----------



## ardilla

I Guess guys might have different tubes?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> badwisdom said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks that makes a lot of sense.
> ...


----------



## markm1111

Well, I have joined the Leben CS-300XS club after several years of just lusting after one. The amp I bought also came with a full complement of Mullard NOS tubes, so it will hopefully be pretty close to the original 300X. I love the look and feel of the amp before I even turn it on!
   
  To date, I am loving the sound of the amp driving my D7000s. I haven't been quite as happy with my T1s. The T1s were sensational on my Decware CSP-2+. Are they not as good a match for the 300XS? Should I consider swapping them over for a pair of HD800s or some LCD2s or 3s? Or do I just need to wait a little while to get used to the signature and see if it grows on me.?


----------



## Skylab

The Leben is better with lower impedance headphones than higher ones. The output is optimized for 32 ohms. I also liked it with the D7000. I think that's a good match.


----------



## majkel

Quote:  





> To date, I am loving the sound of the amp driving my D7000s. I haven't been quite as happy with my T1s. The T1s were sensational on my Decware CSP-2+. Are they not as good a match for the 300XS? Should I consider swapping them over for a pair of HD800s or some LCD2s or 3s? Or do I just need to wait a little while to get used to the signature and see if it grows on me.?


 

 The HD800s suit the CS300XS better than the T1s but it's up to your taste whether you care more for the Leben's or the T1s' sound.


----------



## googleli

Try the ohm button at the back. I experienced distortion with the LCD2. I used the Leben with my previous speakers at 4 ohm and distortion happened. Once I turned back to 8 ohm when listening to the LCD2, the distortion went away completely.


----------



## ardilla

Hi
   
  How is it about amplifier/transformator *humming on Leben CS300?*
   
  Is there any humming noise through the headphones - anybody tested with earbuds or something really sensitive? Especially grateful for 230V users,


----------



## zoroastra

I own a 300XS with 230-240 volt, 50 cycle AC and mine hummms through my speakers too. My speakers are very efficient open baffle jobs with the signal going through a crossover, then the bass through another mosfet amp to drive a pair of bass speakers so I thought that I had been amplifying the 50 cycle transformer hum. Do you hear a hum through headphones?


----------



## Skylab

I do not get a hum on my 120V CS300, but I did have a slight hum when I used a 100V Japan model through a step-down transformer.


----------



## zoroastra

Hello skylab,
   
  Was that hum from speakers or headphones? If speakers, what was their sensitivity?


----------



## Skylab

Headphones only.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Hi
> 
> How is it about amplifier/transformator *humming on Leben CS300?*
> 
> Is there any humming noise through the headphones - anybody tested with earbuds or something really sensitive? Especially grateful for 230V users,


 
  I am just wondering how you are thinking. Why use a 15 W amplifier for earbuds?


----------



## ardilla

It's not my plan to use the Leben for earbuds, but you won't believe how good the Yuin PK1 sounds thorugh the Woo WA2  
   
  I'm thinking- the easiest way to check for hum is to use something with very high sensitivity. Many large amps work with earbuds. But I have experienced humming with others. I asked for earbuds because most people has got a set. 
   
  Quote: 





anders said:


> I am just wondering how you are thinking. Why use a 15 W amplifier for earbuds?


----------



## arnesto

I have the 100v version of the CS300xs and I am using it with the a converter to US 120 volts.
   
  I can hear the hum on my headphones only when there is no music playing and the hum is so minor that it doesn't bother me at all.
   
  I wouldn't let the hum stop you from considering getting one.


----------



## Skylab

A small amount of hum is very often the case with high-efficiency headphones used on tube amps.


----------



## ardilla

With solid state it's a hiss, with tubes there's a hum.. ...
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> A small amount of hum is very often the case with high-efficiency headphones used on tube amps.


----------



## Anders

Powerful amplifiers usually have a higher basic noise than less powerful amps (with basic noise I mean the noise you get independent of volume). Also generally more noise with tubes than solid state. So if you search for an amp with low noise to use for earbuds, high power tube equipment should be the last place to look.
   
  However, the importance of noise can be overvalued. I have seen Head-Fier's "testing" equipment by turning the volume to max and listen with earbuds without music playing, and at levels that would cause permanent ear damage if they played music. The important thing is if the noise affects the quality of the musical presentation or not at realistic volumes and the quality of the reproduction over all. This is partly a subjective evaluation and not only about the objective level of noise that can be measured. An odd thing is that questions about noise and hum is often evaluated subjectively on Head-Fi and with different methods. Look back in this thread (and many other threads as well) and you can find wildly varying answers about the hum. I imagine some persons answer by listening at max volume without music and others by listening to music. And some answers are based on defective tubes!


----------



## ardilla

I'm not intending to use earbuds on a Leben. I just wonder if there are hum-issues


----------



## googleli

I tried with my Westone ES5 and UE18 pro. I got a low electrical noise but not hum, more like current flow noise, with the more sensitive ES5 . The Ue18 pro was quite silent withiout music on through the Leben.


----------



## ardilla

great  The Leben seems to stand the test
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> I tried with my Westone ES5 and UE18 pro. I got a low electrical noise but not hum, more like current flow noise, with the more sensitive ES5 . The Ue18 pro was quite silent withiout music on through the Leben.


----------



## szvencel

Hello,
   
  It may be a bit off-topic but I wounder if anybody might know what output tranformers Leben is using in this amp?
  I would be mostly interested in the transformer core material and the wire used to make it.
   
  Thanks and regards,
  Vencel


----------



## Skylab

Leben builds their own transformers, they do not buy them from someone else. So check out the info on their website.


----------



## szvencel

Hello,
  Thanks for your answer. Unfortunately I could not find information about the output transformer material. I just wonder if Hyodo san uses amorphous cores or just the simple silicon iron core.
  Unfortunately I did not have the possibility to listen to any of his amplifiers but I am quite interested in the CS300XS. If only it would also have a phono stage. This way it would be an all-rounder integrated amp 
  Regards,


----------



## googleli

Through these two years since I have come into ownership of the Leben CS300XS, and lately the McIntosh C2300 preamp, I have tried more than a dozen pairs of 12AX7s, including without limitation the Sovteks, the Mullard 1950's AX7s, the Telefunken smooth plates and ribbed plates, Mazda, Sylvannia, the 1950's Amperex long plate "D"-getter, JJs, Gold Lion reissues and Miniwatts.
   
  But ultimately, the three pairs of which clearly stood out from the rest, in terms of sound quality, IMO, are:
   
  - Telefunken 803S
  - Mullard 10M (gold plated pins version)
   
  These tubes, though rarer than most other tubes mentioned above, can still be found on the market occasionally and I suspect many tube owners from the past still store them. They are particularly detailed and Hifi oriented - if you are looking for that kind of characteristics in 12AX7s, look no further.
   
  So, what is the remaining pair? Aren't the Telefunken 803S or the Mullard 10M famous / rare enough? Yes - maybe less heard of than the above due to rarity - but this - IMO, is the TRUE holy grail of all 12AX7s. I came across them during the visit of a hi-fi audiophile friend. He was interested to listen to my Esoteric - McIntosh - Dynaudio system (see signature for details) and was happy to let me try some of his vintage tubes on my McIntosh preamp. He went all SS now so the 12AX7s to him is more for collection than real use. There is currently a pair up of these for sale on eBay, but the measurements are not very good. This pair is now very strong. Once plugged into my system, I know well that I won't unplug them from my McIntosh (well actually I did later as I wanted to try them on my Leben). While the 803S and 10M delivered great details and with the Mullards 10Ms being the widest bandwidth 12AX7s I have heard, they are in no comparison with these tubes when it comes to human voice and musicality. Nor does any of my previous tubes such as the Amperex could even compare with these for musicality (and the Amperex long plate D getters were known for this). So coherent and musical, not overly warmish but not overall Hifi - these are the tubes which I have been looking for my Dynaudio speakers. I would try it with the Leben one of these days, but due to rarity I would hesitate to use them solely for headphones.
   
  Ladies and gentlemen - introducing the vintage Gold Lion B759 12AX7s - the true holy grail among all 12AX7s, and matched within 1% at above 80. As I said, there is a pair currently selling on eBay but its matching or strength is no comparison to my pair. If you happen to find a pair locally, don't hesitate - get them regardless of the price. They sound good. You will hear it. This - IMO - is the ultimate 12AX7.
   
   
   
   

   
   
   

   

   
  I couldn't help opening up a bottle after being astonished by the improvement brought about by a tiny pair of tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Those pics...wow...yummy


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Ladies and gentlemen - introducing the vintage Gold Lion B759 12AX7s - the true holy grail among all 12AX7s, and matched within 1% at above 80. As I said, there is a pair currently selling on eBay but its matching or strength is no comparison to my pair. If you happen to find a pair locally, don't hesitate - get them regardless of the price. They sound good. You will hear it. This - IMO - is the ultimate 12AX7.


 
   
  You mean the pair for $1499?  I would go for them but I know that Skylab has his eyes on them!


----------



## Skylab

Yeah they are all yours Minches...they're a little beyond my tolerance for pain


----------



## dminches

I think that if I was ever crazy enough to buy a tube like that I wouldn't use it.  So, what's the point?


----------



## RedBull

^ just to feel secure that you are above all other audiophilers o_O


----------



## vert

Back in the CS300XS club. I picked up badwisdom's unit. Interestingly, it has the same hum/static noise my previous unit had. There's definitely some interference at my place.
   
  I currently have it plugged into a Running Springs Haley line conditioner. But the real secret is the *Vertex AQ Jaya* filter (plugged into the Haley). It reduces radio frequency noise and microphonic distortion. _This is a night & day difference folks_. If you ever see one for sale in the UK, snap it up.


----------



## vert

Anyone using aftermarket fuses? Any recommendations?
   
  I replaced the wall outlet/receptacle with a Maestro outlet and my jaw is on the ground. Wish I had known about it sooner.


----------



## No Disc

In case anyone is looking for one of these for sale, one just came up for sale over at the AudioCircle forms... 
   
  - No Disc


----------



## levlhed

If things fall into place, I will be stepping into the club w a CS-300XS.
   
  I spent the last two days or so slogging through this whole thread.  One question I have that some of you were flirting with was using lower gain tubes....
  I have some very choice pairs of 12AT7's around here that I would be thrilled to be able to use in this amp.  Has anyone done this?  Any opinions on what will happen?
  Any glaring reason I shouldn't?


----------



## ardilla

Anyone compared the Leben to the Decaware Taboo/CSP2+ combo??


----------



## mrtim6

Nice to know some one has found their holy grail -great pics too.

Wondered if you have tried the NOS Raytheon 5751 windmill getters? - I really like them in my leben CS 300xs. I have used them recently with a quad of Australian NOS EL84 Phillips Miniwatts.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I am using the windmill getter 5751 in my CS300. Wonderful tubes.


----------



## BugleBoy

Interesting read Googleli. Have you had a chance to compare these with CBS/Raytheon 7729? Keen to know how these might stack up with the 3 you mention.


----------



## badwisdom

Quote: 





vert said:


> Back in the CS300XS club. I picked up badwisdom's unit. Interestingly, it has the same hum/static noise my previous unit had. There's definitely some interference at my place.
> 
> I currently have it plugged into a Running Springs Haley line conditioner. But the real secret is the *Vertex AQ Jaya* filter (plugged into the Haley). It reduces radio frequency noise and microphonic distortion. _This is a night & day difference folks_. If you ever see one for sale in the UK, snap it up.


 
   
  Hey vert,
   
  nice seeing you here. Hope you're enjoying the Leben, glad that initial scare took care of itself 
   
  Cheers
  Xavier


----------



## zoroastra

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Ladies and gentlemen - introducing the vintage Gold Lion B759 12AX7s - the true holy grail among all 12AX7s, and matched within 1% at above 80. As I said, there is a pair currently selling on eBay but its matching or strength is no comparison to my pair. If you happen to find a pair locally, don't hesitate - get them regardless of the price. They sound good. You will hear it. This - IMO - is the ultimate 12AX7.


 
  I've read good things about these valves too. I have also heard people say that the new versions of this tube "Genalex-Gold Lion ECC83/B759" sound good too, so I bought a quad matched set and replaced the Sovtek versions that came with the CS300Xs (s for Sovtek) with the new Genalex remakes (I think also by Sovtek) and then promptly removed them and re-installed the original Sovteks because they sounded better. I've looked on the web and a pair of Vintage Gold Lions are on Ebay for nearly $2000.00 now, about the same as NOS Mullards. Whats the point? The amplifier sounds fine as it is and I am bummed that I spent that money on new version Gold Lions, anyone interested in an essentually new matched set?


----------



## levlhed

Has anyone tried 12AT7's in the Leben?


----------



## Skylab

I have not, but I do find I prefer the slightly lower gain 5751 versus a regular 12AX7.


----------



## levlhed

Yeah, that's why I'm wondering about 12AT7's.  Since the amp has soooo much gain available for headphones, you'd think 12AT7's would almost be ideal?


----------



## Skylab

Can't hurt anything to try it.  12AT7 has 60% of the gain of the 12AX7, so it will lower the gain.  Not really sure of the small differences between them will have other effects on the CS300's circuit, but it will just be a question of how it sounds.


----------



## levlhed

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/41831-rolling-12au7-or-12at7-tubes-into-a-leben-300-xs/
  Last post...sounds promising, yeah?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, certainly in terms of it being no problem to try it. Let us know how you make out


----------



## vert

Quote: 





> nice seeing you here. Hope you're enjoying the Leben, glad that initial scare took care of itself


 
   
  Thanks, Xavier. Although the Leben has opened the door to numerous upgrades. Just what I was afraid of. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I installed a Maestro outlet, and the Leben sounds more transparent than ever. 
   
  I know you are enjoying your Accuphase.


----------



## mrtim6

skylab said:


> Yes, I am using the windmill getter 5751 in my CS300. Wonderful tubes.




I agree Skylab I bought 2 tubes from Langrex when I was on holiday in the Uk this June.

Do you have a preference of EL84's withe the windmill getters?

I have recently tried them with a quad of Langrex bought NOS Philips (Russian black tops made circa late 1960s) EL84's which had a nice synergy. Also tried them with a quad of Australian made NOS PHILIPS Miniwatts - superb EL84s.


----------



## ardilla

CS300 vs CS300X vs CS00XS comparison chart....


----------



## Skylab

I've been using mostly black-plate Sylvania 6BQ5's, which I am quite partial to.


----------



## levlhed

OKAY
  I can officially join the club.  Got mine today, currently has the stock GE 5751 and the Genalex Gold Lion N709.  Beyerdynamic T1's.
   
  It gets better than this?  Really?
   
  Honestly, at first I didn't hear a significant difference from my modded out Bottlehead Crack.  But as things warmed up and I heard more...thinking I get it now.


----------



## googleli

Very good stuff you got there, dude.


----------



## levlhed

+3dB on the bass boost, I wish I didn't like it..but I do.


----------



## googleli

Quote: 





levlhed said:


> +3dB on the bass boost, I wish I didn't like it..but I do.


 
   
  Apparently you need some Mullard or Sylvania 12AX7s.


----------



## mrtim6

Or 5751 Raytheon Windmill getters


----------



## Skylab

I think it's awesome that the Leben has the bass boost control, although I confess I wish that the gradations were more subtle. 3dB is probably just right for speakers, but it's a wee bit much for most headphones...although I LOVED that with the HD800 

Seriously more amps should have tone controls, and more audiophiles shouldn't be afraid of them


----------



## ardilla

X2
   
  But they need GOOD tone controls (of course..) . And further - all headphone amps - or dacs - should have *cross-feed*. I really love the DA11 for this. 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think it's awesome that the Leben has the bass boost control, although I confess I wish that the gradations were more subtle. 3dB is probably just right for speakers, but it's a wee bit much for most headphones...although I LOVED that with the HD800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Indeed. I think my favorite feature of the TOTL 70's Pioneer receivers are the dual-stage tone controls. Having the 50Hz bass and 10kHz treble controls in addition to the more traditional bass and treble controls makes all the difference - I never use the "traditional" two, but the "extreme" two I use all the time. 

Most bass tone controls extend to far up in frequency, which is why many people don't like them. But there have been lots of well implemented ones too.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> X2
> 
> But they need GOOD tone controls (of course..) . And further - all headphone amps - or dacs - should have *cross-feed*. I really love the DA11 for this.


 
   
  Is cross-feed what the Taboo has, called Lucid mode?


----------



## levlhed

Yeah, it seems like +2dB would be just right.  Or maybe if the boost started at somewhere between 50-80hz vs. 100hz?
   
  +3dB tends to be just over the edge of "too much" on my T1, depending on the song....  So I can't decide if I should just listen like that and try to dial back the low end a bit via tubes, or if I should go the other way and keep it at 0dB and try to get a little more oomph via different tubes.
   
  Or, just get different headphones (it never ends)
   
  Regarding the T1, I find that the brighter high end doesn't bother me at all...it actually sounds "right" to me and I never experience fatigue after many hours..hence I'm not sure if I'd like the "darker" LCD sound on the Leben.
  I guess when I think of it, the +3dB bass boost probably kicks the low end up to the same level as the high end 10k-ish peak of the T1, creating more of a smiley EQ signature?


----------



## ardilla

The lucid mode is some kind of cross-feed, yes. Have you gotten your Taboo?
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is cross-feed what the Taboo has, called Lucid mode?


----------



## dminches

Not yet.


----------



## levlhed

12AT7 and 12AU7 seem to work just fine.  Less gain as expected.  I haven't determined anything different that couldn't be attributed to the lower gain or  specific tube characteristics yet.
  I tried 12AT7 Telefunken's (ECC801S) and there wasn't really that much less gain.  It seemed like I could get one more click higher? Like 20 click versus 19 before the drivers start to grumble.
  Currently plopped 12AU7 Tele smooth plates in, certainly a difference in gain. In the ballpark of 30 clicks before driver starts to complain.  The 3dB bass boost doesn't seem to cross the "too much" line with these 12AU7's.
  It seems like things start getting congested at the upper volume.  Note that this is louder than I'd ever listen anyway.  At normal volume levels it seems about the same as far as life, juice, special sauce - just able to turn the volume dial up higher.  I haven't really spent enough time with the amp to qualify more minute differences.  Hard for me to say whats "better" at this point.  My gut instinct is that it is better with the 12AX7's, but my initial impressions are that the Leben CS-300XS works just fine with the lower gain tubes and I suspect that people could find some more magic tube combos with some experimentation.
  What's nice for me now is that I have many more options on hand and don't need to dish out more cash right now just to play around.  (my wallet is rather thin for the foreseeable future!!)
   
  It'd be cool if some of the other owners gave it a shot and let me know their results.


----------



## HPManiac

Hi All,
   
  I've just joined the CS300X club and this thread is tempting me to start rollin' them tubes. I can get hold of Mazda, Tungsram, CIFTE, RadioTechnique 12AU7s, and Tungsol 5751s. Any recommendations out of this selection and any opinion on RFT EL84s?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I know from experience the Tung-Sol 5751's are nice.  I don't have any experience with the others.


----------



## bigdish

Hi everyone, I got a Leben CS300 and am wondering who has tried to modified it and what are the results.


----------



## Skylab

It's not an amp I would modify.  If you want a tube amp to modify, buy a vintage Scott, Fisher, or Dyna.


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's a Leben CS300X that was modified with V-Caps, etc.
   
Leben CS300X [Custom Version]


----------



## dminches

Is that yours? Any thoughts on the effect on its sound?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is that yours? Any thoughts on the effect on its sound?


 
   
  It is not mine. I just remember reading an article about someone's custom Leben and thought that I'd pass it along.


----------



## dminches

Is there an undeserved obsession with v-caps? Do they make a significant difference ?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is there an undeserved obsession with v-caps? Do they make a significant difference ?


 

 I believe that V-caps do make a big difference. But to appreciate its impact it is of personal taste. I have a Woo Audio 4 with V-caps and the sound is heavy compared to a WA4 without V-caps. The V-caps place the sound signature in the thick-sounding arena which can be tamed with bright headphones like the Beyer DT990 600 ohm.


----------



## dminches

I know you have a very nice collection of amps so I appreciate your comments.


----------



## bigdish

I read the same article also. That's why I am curious to what extend can these modifications improve the sound quality.
    
   
  Here is the article:    
    
http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en


----------



## Anders

I have modified my Leben CS300. It happened after the amp was damaged in a tube-rolling accident and an resistor blew up. This can seem dramatic but in this case the damage was benign and easy to repair. I brought the amp to a very experienced tube technician and also accepted his recommendation to change the coupling capacitors, with a restore guarantee without cost.
   
  At the same time, I showed him some upgrades from the Polish magazine and the upgrade capacitors in the CS300XS (compared to CS300). There are a few capacitors that are different and he said that the capacitors in the XS are better but that the importance for sound quality was marginal or maybe not audible. This is very much in accordance with Skylab's impressions from listening. He said that the component in the amp are not expensive but of good quality and build quality is very good.
   
  I think that the improvement of the upgraded coupling capacitors is substantial. The upgrade capacitors are Duelund capacitors made in Denmark. Duelund capacitors have a good reputation as high-end components. They are unfortunately expensive and four are needed. You can see them on the picture. I have placed one of the original capacitors above the third Duelund resistor from the left in the picture for comparison. They are much bigger but are not of different capacitance value.
   
  It is difficult to evaluate the change in sound in such modifications. The upgrade took some time and the new capacitors have to burn-in. I have not had any possibility of an A-B comparison to an unmodified Leben but I am convinced that sound became smoother with better dynamics and improved bass impact. The difference is substantial.


----------



## bigdish

Sound promising! I'd also like to give it a try. Has anyone tried to replace the output transformer?


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's not an amp I would modify.  If you want a tube amp to modify, buy a vintage Scott, Fisher, or Dyna.


 
   
  I think this is a very wise statement. Replacing the output transformers of a tube amp is not far from building a new amp. The only thing that my tube technician (with long-time experience of high-end tube equipment) regarded worth changing was the coupling capacitors, and you should not do that at random.


----------



## Skylab

Exactly. The whole point of the Leben is the quality of its custom made, hand wound transformers. It would be simply wasting money to buy a Leben and the try to "improve" it with different output transformers. The only reason to buy the Leben in the first place is the transformers.


----------



## vert

Hi Anders, which Dueland capacitor model did you have installed?


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





vert said:


> Hi Anders, which Dueland capacitor model did you have installed?


 
   
  It is Duelund VSF Cu (copper foil). I am not sure about the exact specification, I think it is 0.47 uF. There also seems to be different versions for speaker filters and electronics. I think my are speced for 400V but am not sure and there could be different versions for AC and DC. They cost about 150 Euro each and you need four. There is also a bigger model named Cast that costs about the double. It may not fit in CS300 because of physical size.
   
  I didn't do it myself, they were selected and mounted by an expert on tube electronics. He suggested the modification and I just searched around about Duelund capacitors before I decided. Duelund has a very good reputation as high class and neutral capacitors. There are probably also other possible choices but not many of the same quality. I think the Duelund modification enhances the sound without changing the basic signature of CS300. I think you should know exactly what you do (and should do) before trying this modification, or leave it to an expert.


----------



## zeluiz

Hello Anders, 
  Please, what kind of problem caused the accident during the tube rolling?
  Thanks!


----------



## vert

Thanks Anders. Sounds like the Dueland upgrade would be worth doing. You seemed to have inadvertently arrived at your own CS300XS _special edition_.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





zeluiz said:


> Hello Anders,
> Please, what kind of problem caused the accident during the tube rolling?
> Thanks!


 

 I used a tube that is electrically equivalent with EL84 but not pin compatible, a way to get NOS tubes very cheap. I bought the tubes with adapters from a reputable tube company but it seems that the pinout is different from the standard on CS300. They have changed the description after that, but when I bought the tubes it looked like a drop in replacement with the adapters. When I turned on the amp, it began to smoke. I turned it off directly and the damage was limited, a resistor burned and an inexpensive capacitor was slightly damaged and replaced. As a compensation I got a quad of NOS Mullard EL84 from the tube company, so when all was cleared up it was a rather nice experience.
   
  With all the talk about humming Lebens, I sometimes wonder how many that could have been damaged by tube rolling? Obviously, an incompatible tube need not burn a component in the amp, it could instead result in a more subtle damage. Nowadays, I only use 12AX7, 5751, EL84 or close substitutes.


----------



## zeluiz

Thanks,
  My CS300XS uses now a full set of Gold Lion´s. I also have some NOS EL84 quads here and many 12AX7/5751 pairs to try, but with little time to make the changes and experiment the results...
  They all came from reputable dealers, anyway  I´m always afraid to change them, only tried once a pair of NOS 12AX7 from Miniwatt (Philips/Ibrape) but changed back to the Gold Lion´s due to sound quality.
  I really miss a reliable tube tester here, since in my region nobody deals with tubes anymore!
  So I must trust on the concept of "matched" pair or quad from the dealers who sold them to me...


----------



## RedBull

Leben is a self bias, it doesn't have to be match pair, isn't it?


----------



## bigdish

My initial choices of capacitors are V Cap TFTF or REL AudioCap RT Polystyrene Film & Tin Foil. Duelund is simply out of my reach.  
    
  Shall I get 0.33uF 600V or 0.47uF 600V to replace the four coupling capacitors of my Leben CS3000?


----------



## RedBull

I'm very sure what you meant was CS300


----------



## bigdish

Oh yes. A typo.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Leben is a self bias, it doesn't have to be match pair, isn't it?


 
  The preamp section is self-biasing so tubes need not to be matched there. The power amp has a push-pull design and tubes work in tandem and should be as similar as possible in pairs. So the best is two matched pairs of EL84, a matched quad is of course good too but not necessary. The caveat is that it is doubtful if "matched tubes" really are matched. Sometimes sellers only seem to mean that they are of the same brand and look similar, in other cases they have matched them carefully on at least one parameter. Still there is question if they have been matched on the properties that are most essential for the circuit in the Leben amp. I think that it is best to find reasonably matched pairs in the power section. However, tubes bought as unmatched can be similar enough and work well.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





bigdish said:


> My initial choices of capacitors are V Cap TFTF or REL AudioCap RT Polystyrene Film & Tin Foil. Duelund is simply out of my reach.
> 
> Shall I get 0.33uF 600V or 0.47uF 600V to replace the four coupling capacitors of my Leben CS3000?


 
  Your question makes me wonder it you really have the know-how to to this? It can also affect the resale value negatively. That can also apply to my modified amp but I will keep it and and don't bother.


----------



## log0

I've had some time to spend with my new toy, the CS300 big brother. Unfortunately I had to sell my LCD2s in order to fund these, but boy do they make music. Currently using the 6p3se tubes and Devore Nines speakers. Long time coming, glad to finally see this beauty in my home! When I can afford a pair of headphones I'll post my impressions.


----------



## Clayton SF

I love my CS-600. This amp is responsible for moving me from headphones to speakers. It is an incredible sounding amp. Since I got this amp my speaker use has gone from 5% to 95% of the time. No regrets.


----------



## googleli

Congratz! I heard the CS600 gives a different kind of fineness to sound, would be very interested to hear one.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah looks great!  I would love to hear one of those someday.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love my CS-600. This amp is responsible for moving me from headphones to speakers. It is an incredible sounding amp. Since I got this amp my speaker use has gone from 5% to 95% of the time. No regrets.


 
   
  Great Clayton!!!  I've read a lot of good stuff about CS600.
  For headphone usage, how would you say the difference between CS-300 (or XS) family to his brother? any different?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks.
   
  The CS-600 can use a variety of power tubes with the flick of two switches--[size=x-small] the 6L6GC and 6CA7 (EL34)[/size][size=x-small]. I am currently using its stock tubes of Sovtek 6L6GCW and Japanese made 6CA7 (first-stage tubes). I was very impressed when I had the CS-300XS. It floored me from the very first notes I played on it. I was also impressed when I first played the 600 with its stock tubes. But it sounded like it needed to open up a bit. The sound wasn't as expansive and it was a bit bland. But after 500+ hours, it has exceeded my expectations. I own many amps and have rotated them with the 600 and have always [/size]returned to the 600. Its efforts at reproducing acoustical music is the best. Especially among string instruments like guitars and violins. Female vocals are exemplary. But it also is able to review the flaws of poorly recorded (or dated) digital recordings even with my Havana MHDT tube DAC.
   
  I am getting ready to sell off most of my equipment and am keeping about 4 amps. One of which is the Leben CS600.


----------



## dminches

What are you selling?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What are you selling?


 
  I should have a list ready this weekend. It will be a daunting task. The reason is space in my small apartment. I need to reclaim space. If I don't clear out my inventory, they'll find my motionless body buried under many empty cardboard boxes (I've read stories like that).


----------



## log0

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Thanks.
> 
> The CS-600 can use a variety of power tubes with the flick of two switches--[size=x-small] the 6L6GC and 6CA7 (EL34)[/size][size=x-small]. I am currently using its stock tubes of Sovtek 6L6GCW and Japanese made 6CA7 (first-stage tubes). I was very impressed when I had the CS-300XS. It floored me from the very first notes I played on it. I was also impressed when I first played the 600 with its stock tubes. But it sounded like it needed to open up a bit. The sound wasn't as expansive and it was a bit bland. But after 500+ hours, it has exceeded my expectations. I own many amps and have rotated them with the 600 and have always [/size]returned to the 600. Its efforts at reproducing acoustical music is the best. Especially among string instruments like guitars and violins. Female vocals are exemplary. But it also is able to review the flaws of poorly recorded (or dated) digital recordings even with my Havana MHDT tube DAC.
> 
> I am getting ready to sell off most of my equipment and am keeping about 4 amps. One of which is the Leben CS600.


 
   
  I share your sentiment of how fantastic acoustic and live music sounds with the CS600. I've spent hours listening to Alison Krauss and the Union Station's Live album, just sounds so damn good with this amp/speaker (DeVore Nines) combo. I've also done a little tube rolling with the CS600 and I like what I'm hearing. I purchased my CS600 used and only heard the stock Sovtek tubes for a few songs before rolling in the 6p3se that Jeff Day mentioned sounds so good with the Leben. After spending a few hours of listening time with these tubes, I agree that they sound fantastic and are a heck of a bargain. Cryoset sells matched quads for $50-$60, not a bad deal.
   
  I've also rolled in some Sylvania 6L6WGA 5932 tubes. Large brown base, short glass bottle, fantastic tubes. This and the 6p3se are my favorite so far. The Sylvania tube, to me, has a wider sound stage and better bass extension.
   
  I was pleasantly surprised when I rolled in some new production JJ EL34Ls. I thought new production was suppose to be lacking? The JJ's were totally coherent, very tight bass, and clean sound. I have to spend more time with these, when listening to music with these tubes I had no complaints.
   
  Next on my list of tubes to purchase are RCA 6L6GC black plates and maybe even some NOS Mullard EL34 if I can afford it.
   
  Short story, if you have the Leben CS600 you should invest a few bucks into some good tubes, the Leben deserves it. Not that the Sovteks are bad by any means.
   
  I also wanted to add that the CS300 and CS600 are some of the finest looking amps. I know we're all about the sound quality, but it doesn't hurt that these are some wonderfully eye-catching pieces of audio art.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *log0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the list of tubes to try. The Leben CS600 has redefined the "gutsy" sound like The Civil Wars. Wow.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks Clayton.

Let us buy amps that you dont need anymore 

Do you think cs300 sound is very different than 600 for headphones?


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





log0 said:


> "Next on my list of tubes to purchase are RCA 6L6GC black plates and maybe even some NOS Mullard EL34 if I can afford it."
> 
> 
> I swapped out the Sovteks for RCA blackplates fairly soon after acquiring the CS-600 and they provide for a much smoother, fuller and richer listening experience. I also replaced the first stage ampification tubes as well as the damper tube with NOS Sylvanias. I also would like to hear a quad of Mullards.
> ...


----------



## log0

Unfortunately I had to sell my LCD2s to fund my speakers/amp. If I ever do get back a pair of LCD2s I will let you know. Glad to hear you like the RCA Blackplates. If you also have the 6n3ce, have you had a chance to compare them?


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *log0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you also have the 6n3ce, have you had a chance to compare them?


 
   
   
  I respect the opinions of Jeff Day but his recommendation to swap out new production Russian tubes for NOS Russian tubes never appealed to me since I have a pretty good idea that the 6n3ce's don't hold a candle to what is more than likely the best American 6L6 ever made, the RCA Black Plate. However, I'm fairly sure they sound better than the stock Sovteks and there is certainly nothing wrong with making incremental improvements.
   
  When I use my CS-600 as a power amp with my Harbeths, there is no audible hum but when I pair the amp with either low or high impedance hp's, I hear a soft hum or buzz when music is not playing. This was the case with the stock tubes as well. I was just wondering what your experience has been with speakers and headphones using the Leben. Having gone though this entire thread, some owners experience silence when using headphones while others hear the buzz and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason why this is the case.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> I respect the opinions of Jeff Day but his recommendation to swap out new production Russian tubes for NOS Russian tubes never appealed to me since I have a pretty good idea that the 6n3ce's don't hold a candle to what is more than likely the best American 6L6 ever made, the RCA Black Plate. However, I'm fairly sure they sound better than the stock Sovteks and there is certainly nothing wrong with making incremental improvements.
> 
> When I use my CS-600 as a power amp with my Harbeths, there is no audible hum but when I pair the amp with either low or high impedance hp's, I hear a soft hum or buzz when music is not playing. This was the case with the stock tubes as well. I was just wondering what your experience has been with speakers and headphones using the Leben. Having gone though this entire thread, some owners experience silence when using headphones while others hear the buzz and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason why this is the case.


 

 Curious, what version of the RCA Black plates do you have? I've been trying to decide which variation to buy, the one with side getters or the double D bottom getters. I can't find a consensus as to what the differences are between each, which to me means they both should perform very well.


----------



## levlhed

I don't want to read about the 600 in this thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





levlhed said:


> I don't want to read about the 600 in this thread.


 

 Sorry about that. I forgot what thread I was in. No more 600 from me.


----------



## RedBull

He was just afraid he tempted it too much he would buy one


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Curious, what version of the RCA Black plates do you have? I've been trying to decide which variation to buy, the one with side getters or the double D bottom getters. I can't find a consensus as to what the differences are between each, which to me means they both should perform very well.


 
   
  My Leben has (2) matched pairs of the side getter version. I've never had the opportunity to listen to the double D's. The research I have read however, is pretty conclusive that the RCA Black Plate is the best valve for the CS-600 when configured for 6L6's.
   
  Quote: 





levlhed said:


> I don't want to read about the 600 in this thread.


 
   
  Sorry man, did not mean to offend. The love of Leben HI Fi gear is shared  by a relatively select few. Consequently, there is no dedicated CS-600 thread on Head-Fi. If you puruse all of the postings you will notice that the discussion began to include the CS-600 as more HF'rs purchased the unit. To my knowledge, you are the very first to complain.


----------



## levlhed

I just think it ends up being confusing, talking about tubes that can't be used in the 300 series.
   
  Start a new thread?


----------



## ardilla

Two different versions of the Leben CS300XS headphone output!
   
  I asked Leben about why the HD650 (103dB)  is humming on my Leben CS300XS, whilst my less sensitive Audeze (LCD-2rev.1/3 - 93db) and HiFiman HE500 (89dB) cans are not:
   
  Here's the answer from Leben
   
   
   


> This may be due to the headphone output power.[size=12.727272033691406px]
> *In the past there were two types of CS-300X, one has 1000mW headphone[size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> output, and the other has 800mW for high efficiency headphones.*[size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> ...


 
   
  Attached diagram:


----------



## ardilla

What this also implies is that one can, if one is willing to do so (or make someone capable do it for you) - actually make another headphone socket and have to sockets: One high and one low sensitivity output.


----------



## Anders

Anyway, it can be useful to know the resistor values for modification from one setting to the other.


----------



## vert

If anyone is interested, the fuse type for the CS300XS is slow, 6.4mm x 30mm, 2A. I swapped the stock fuse for a furutech and it does indeed make an appreciable difference - the sound is lusher with more immediacy and dimension. Although I find the furutech to be too warm in my system and I will try the hifi tuning fuse.


----------



## Ajepdel

Hello. I need your help to know if the CS600 has the same quality as the CS300XS using headphones.
   
  thanks


----------



## ardilla

FWIR they are not  the same specs etc. - but the 600 is a good performer with headphones, the headphones output i tapped from the output stage as with the CS600 an ran through resistors. 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/401639/list-of-amps-that-double-as-stereo-amps#post_5299511
   
  What headphones do you intend to use?
  Quote: 





ajepdel said:


> Hello. I need your help to know if the CS600 has the same quality as the CS300XS using headphones.
> 
> thanks


----------



## Ajepdel

Hello. Use the Audeze LCD2


----------



## RedBull

What is the main difference in sound (for headphone only) between CS-300XS vs CS600?


----------



## ardilla

here's a happy CS-600 and LCD-2 listener..
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/543084/lcd-2-details-transparency#post_7322838
   
  Quote: 





ajepdel said:


> Hello. Use the Audeze LCD2


 
   
  I've read that CS600 is happier with higher impedance headphones due to unconfirmed high-ish output impedance (??).
   
  The planar magnetic LCD-2, however, even though it is not high impedance, has a very flat impedance curve which makes it less dependant on impedance matching - which also corresponds to my own experiences. 
   
  The very low standard dynamic Denon DXXXX series seems to be less of a good match ( I read this several places)
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1109/lawton_audio_la7000.htm
   
   
  Anyway: 
   
*My advice*: Use the CS-600 with higher impedance headphones or planar dynamic hteadphones with flat impedance curves, Like the Audezes and Hifimans.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Another low impedance headphone which exhibits lovely synergy with the CS-600 is the AT W3000ANV. "Ethereal" is an adjective which conveys a sense of the experience.


----------



## RedBull

Wow, cs600 is better than cs300xs. Unfortunately, he did not mention which part of the sound is 'better'.

Actually, Denon and most headphones have flat impedance curve though. Only the Sennys have weird impedance curve, which can only be 'solved' by constant current amps like Transformer coupled design like what all the Leben models has.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Wow, cs600 is better than cs300xs. Unfortunately, he did not mention which part of the sound is 'better'.
> *Actually, Denon and most headphones have flat impedance curve though. *Only the *Sennys have weird impedance curve*, which can only be 'solved' by constant current amps like Transformer coupled design like what all the Leben models has.


 
   
  Very true indeed, I stand corrected. But still - I've seen people cherishing the LCD-2/CS-600 while several are not happy at all with the (even lower impedance) Denon  D5000/D7000


----------



## vert

Now that the Furutech fuse is broken in and I have to say it's much better than the stock one. I swapped the Furutech out for a few minutes and immediately put it back in. I didn't realize how much it transformed the amp.


----------



## ardilla

In what way?
  Quote: 





vert said:


> Now that the Furutech fuse is broken in and I have to say it's much better than the stock one. I swapped the Furutech out for a few minutes and immediately put it back in. I didn't realize how much* it transformed the amp.*


----------



## vert

The CS300xs is lush, seductive, and more lively with the furutech fuse. At first the liveliness reminded me of a McCormack DNA amp. Interestingly, it was Steve McCormack's endorsement of the furutech that sold me. _He was right._
   
  Easily the biggest bang for the buck upgrade. No going back to the stock fuse after you've lived with the furutech. In fact, I think all CS300s should ship from the factory with the furutech installed.


----------



## bigdish

Which Furtech fuse are you using?


----------



## RedBull

And how much you pay for it?


----------



## vert

Furutech fuse: slow, 6.4mm x 30mm, 2A
   
  I paid about $47 plus shipping from Acoustic Sounds, but I would recommend purchasing it from a place like Music direct that allows returns just in case.
   
  The only thing is it's a bit warm sounding. But once you've had it in your system for a week, I don't think there's any going back.


----------



## dminches

It is hard to believe that the Leben needs more warmth.


----------



## vert

The dimensions I listed are from Leben Japan. The fuse size you want is large, slow, 2A.


----------



## vert

Any recommendations for headphones? I'm thinking of picking up a pair of LCD-3s.


----------



## dminches

It is personal preference but the LCD-3/Leben combo is about as good at it gets.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> It is personal preference but the LCD-3/Leben combo is about as good at it gets.




I completely agree


----------



## vert

OK, I'm obligated to pick up a pair then.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It is hard to believe that the Leben needs more warmth.


 
   
  I know, but the furutech is simply amazing. I would recommend every CS300 owner to try one out.
   
  I'm not sure if there is a burn-in time with fuses, but a flip switched and it is airier and much more liquid (less fine grain) than the stock fuse. And the noise floor is lower. Who would've thunk?


----------



## ardilla

Does it bring you beer as well?
  Quote: 





> Posted by *vert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I know, but the furutech is simply amazing. I would recommend every CS300 owner to try one out.
> ...


----------



## vert

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Does it bring you beer as well?


 
  Pretty much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Very noticeable reduction in the noise floor and grain which leads to ++ in musical relaxation.


----------



## BugleBoy

Just couldn't resist the temptation; I ordered the furutech fuse yesterday and will receive it tomorrow.
  
  It cost me $86 (with shipping) here in Australia...hope its worth it.


----------



## ardilla

You just couldn't refuse to re-fuse.....
  Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Just couldn't resist the temptation; I ordered the furutech fuse yesterday and will receive it tomorrow.
> 
> It cost me $86 (with shipping) here in Australia...hope its worth it.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> You just couldn't refuse to re-fuse.....


 
  Yes indeed...that's another way of putting it.
   
  As they say...The trouble with resisting temptation is that it may not come again!


----------



## vert

Everything is more expensive in Aus, but the quality of life is worth it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I still get goosebumps listening to this amp with the furutech fuse. It takes the Leben's refinement to another level. Also the overly warm sound has cleared now the fuse is broken in.


----------



## bigdish

I also bought a Furutech fuse last night for my Leben CS300, and I agree that it immediatley takes the Leben's refinement to another level!! 
   
  It has not even been broken in.


----------



## BugleBoy

Bummer...I didn't get my fuse fix after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The reseller was out of stock and could be waiting for weeks on back order...so I got my money refunded.
   
  Think I may have to get one from eBay.


----------



## ardilla

Whohaa!! Anybody tried changing the fuse in the fuse-box for Furutechs??? (just kidding - I don't think fuses are ridiculous)
  Quote: 





bigdish said:


> I also bought a Furutech fuse last night for my Leben CS300, and I agree that it immediatley takes the Leben's refinement to another level!!
> 
> It has not even been broken in.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





bigdish said:


> I also bought a Furutech fuse last night for my Leben CS300, and I agree that it immediatley takes the Leben's refinement to another level!!
> 
> It has not even been broken in.


 
   
  Good to know it wasn't my imagination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The furutech is glass smooth. I tried to go back to the stock fuse but couldn't bear the sound. I had no idea all of that grain was coming from the fuse.


----------



## zoroastra

I am slightly cynical about a fuse making all that much difference, but if that is what you are hearing I may take a chance myself. If the Furutech Large, Slow, 2Amp fuse works that well in the CS300XS, would a Furutech Large, Slow, 1.5A fuse help the sound of the Leben RS-30EQ phono preamplifier equally? Anyone out there with one? Does Furutech make a 1.5A fuse (assuming the fuse holder in the Leben phono stage the same size holder as the Leben CS300XS)? It's just if I am going to change the fuse in one, then I should probably change the fuse in both, right?
   
  Thanks,


----------



## vert

The furutechs are directional and I've found that they sound best with the "F" lettering facing the amp.


----------



## Torero

I'm a Leben CS300XS's owner with HD800 headphones. I have to try the fuse too.

 I have some questions:

 1 - What amplifiers you know  are in the same level than Leben?

 2 - Are the HD800 the best headphones to the Leben? or Audeze LCD-2 are better?


----------



## nd4speed

Quote: 





torero said:


> I'm a Leben CS300XS's owner with HD800 headphones. I have to try the fuse too.
> 
> I have some questions:
> 
> ...


----------



## RedBull

This Furutech fuse is tempting. I too find sometimes Leben has a little grainy sound compared to my super smooth Lehmann BCL (both with LCD-2).

Has anyone tried to change the 4/8 ohm switch at the back? 
I swear it change the tonality for headphone listening a bit.
I know it sounds odd, don't ask me why, but it does change, or is it just me?
Can anyone try this and confirm?

Skylab, you want to try to change the Fuse?


----------



## Skylab

I may get to it at some point


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I too find sometimes Leben has a little grainy sound compared to my super smooth Lehmann BCL (both with LCD-2).


 
  That's funny. With my HD800s i would say the opposite. After reading your post I tried a direct AB again. In particular, with hi-res (24 96) I found that the Leben was smoother and LESS grainy the the really good sound of the BCL. Not surprising that we get different results depending on the headphone.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





vert said:


> The furutechs are directional and I've found that they sound best with the "F" lettering facing the amp.


 
   
  Are the Leben fuse Slow or Fast blow? I have purchased furutech Slow blow on ebay.


----------



## vert

Slow.
   
  I just read about the Synergistic Research fuses. I'm going to try them.


----------



## RedBull

shabta said:


> That's funny. With my HD800s i would say the opposite. After reading your post I tried a direct AB again. In particular, with hi-res (24 96) I found that the Leben was smoother and LESS grainy the the really good sound of the BCL. Not surprising that we get different results depending on the headphone.




Which gain settings did you try the BCL with? I always leave my BCL at medium gain.
I find low gain is more detail, brighter and less bass punch. Very very good for vocal musics but not for overall genre.
Medium gain leaves me with slighly less detail, but still very detail, warmer vocal, smoother, better bass dynamics and punch, which I prefer, genereally.
Do you want to try BCL again with different gain settings? I am curious if the effect is the same with HD800 also.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





vert said:


> Slow.
> 
> I just read about the Synergistic Research fuses. I'm going to try them.


 

 Thx
   
  If my Furutech experiment works...then I might give Hi-Fi Tuning, Audio Magic Nano Liquid, and Synergetic  Research a try.
   
  Bring on the Fuse rolling!


----------



## shabta

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Which gain settings did you try the BCL with? I always leave my BCL at medium gain.
> I find low gain is more detail, brighter and less bass punch. Very very good for vocal musics but not for overall genre.
> Medium gain leaves me with slighly less detail, but still very detail, warmer vocal, smoother, better bass dynamics and punch, which I prefer, genereally.
> Do you want to try BCL again with different gain settings? I am curious if the effect is the same with HD800 also.


 
   

 Good point! Anyway I also keep the BCL at medium gain. I found it to sound the best, but I no longer remember why (it's been two years). I will play around with the gain settings and report back in the next day or two. Maybe this should move to the BCL thread?


----------



## RedBull

I'll try to find existing BCL thread, if any, and move there.


----------



## BugleBoy

Installed the Furutech fuse today.
   
  Without doubt one of the most satisfying upgrades I have made to the Leben CS300X.
   
  Wonder why Leben don't make this a stock item in their amps...its a no brainer IMO.


----------



## RedBull

One more happy customer! Seems quite convincing.


----------



## nd4speed

All,
  It might be a good idea to post the resistance values of your fuses if you have access to a multimeter. I just ordered a Hifi Tuning Silverstar and will post my result soon.


----------



## nd4speed

Well it's only been a few hours, but comparing the Silverstar to the Isoclean I had in there to begin with, there seems to be increased top-end sparkle, and air. I've switched them out a few times, and the difference is subtle, but it's there. I suppose the difference would be much larger between this and a stock fuse (I wish I still had it to compare).
   
  Interestingly I also found a difference in DC resistance of about .1 ohms between them (Silverstar .1 ohms, vs. Isoclean .2 ohms).


----------



## Torero

More impresions of fuse upgrade?


----------



## ardilla

No fuse - but I simply ADORE the HE-500 with the CS300XS...... It is impossible to imagine life without them


----------



## levlhed

I'm satisfied with the Furutech.  It was worth it to me.
  I haven't tried the HE-500 yet, but the T1 with 3dB bass boost is pretty freakin' awesome.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





vert said:


> Slow.
> 
> I just read about the Synergistic Research fuses. I'm going to try them.


 
  I just installed SR fuse in my MA6900, it lifts sound little bit, which means it made amp sound brighter and more transparent. Fuses are system dependent.


----------



## cydest

Hi,
   
  I was doing some cable rolling on my system and removed the speakers cable from my Leben CS300x (yeah, the Mullard-one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) to plug the cables to another amplifier. Then I switched the Leben on for a while to warm it up....but *forgot* to plug the speaker cables again.... what an @#$^$% (repeated 1000x)
   
  I left the Leben for approx. 60-90 min without the speaker cables plugged back. Positively there was no signal going to the Leben.
   

 Should I expect any damages to the trafos or any other parts?
 Any damage on the tubes?
 Does the Leben has a protective circuit when no load is applied?
   
  Please reassure-me (or make fun of me), I had too much sleepless nights already


----------



## ardilla

Well, does it work? I think tubes are what gets the damage. Sometimes it doesn't matter anyway.


----------



## Skylab

If it works, you're probably fine. It's not a good idea to leave a transformer coupled amp unloaded, but with no input signal, likely you are OK. If you are worried, pop the cover off and look at the output transformers. If they don't look burned, and the amp works fine, I wouldn't be too concerned.


----------



## tyberiusz

Hallo All! This is my first post on this forum. Im wondering if RedBull is right on the sound change after switching output impedance, and my conclusion is that when you look at the schematic from post 1295, you can see it's dependant on the impedance switch, after that it passes a voltage divider and goes to headphone socket. Can anybody confirm ?


----------



## mrtim6

Im currently waiting for a new fuse Furutech from eBay also - I will report back once installed


----------



## mrtim6

Hi all I recently bought Fostex TH900 just trying them out now with the Leben - very impressed with this headphone - anyone else tried this combo? Bit early for impressions. I think Skylab mentioned in one of his posts the Dennon D7000 had an excellent synergy with the Leben. As the two headphones share similar DNA - would love to hear from anyone else.

Skylab wonder if you have had the opportunity to listen to the Fostex TH900 with your Leben?


----------



## Skylab

No, can't say that I have had that chance. But the Leben does seem to love the low impedance Japanese closed cans


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No, can't say that I have had that chance. But the Leben does seem to love the low impedance Japanese closed cans


 
   
  While the W3k does have good synergy soundwise using the Leben CS-600, this listener has always heard a soft buzz with no music playing which is annoying to say the least. Using the headphone output with the low impedance HE-6, dead silent background with terrific SQ. With the EAR HP4, lovely synergy with no background noise listening to the AT's.


----------



## ardilla

Sensitivity matters A LOT more than impedance with regard to buzz. The HE6 being the most insensitive headphone in production, it is a logical implication that any amp that would buzz with the HE6 would be useless..


----------



## WizardKnight

I saw this thread on the net about modding a Leben. I thought it might interest some of you.
http://www.audioaficionado.org/mbl-dcs-goldmund-etc/8875-leben-cs300xs-mutant-version.html

Also read another article on the net were someone had a custom leben ordered from the factory with better tubes, resisters, switches and then modded it more by changing out the coupling capacitors with the new V-Cap CuTF, etc.

http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Sensitivity matters A LOT more than impedance with regard to buzz.


 
   
  This is what Jonathan of Tone Imports (distributor of Leben gear in the U.S.) wrote....."Depending on the headphone impedance and sensitivity, it is possible to hear some low level hum........"
   
  An unfortunate reality which is why this listener uses the Leben primarily with loudspeakers as opposed to cans. No hum whatsoever with the Harbeth 40.1's (6 ohms.....85db)


----------



## Skylab

Yup. That's exactly right. I cannot hear ANY hum with the LCD-3, which makes the Leben and LCD-3 a very nice pairing. I also hear very little hum from the ATW3000ANV, which is surprising guen their high sensitivity.

I'm not sure I have ever owned a tube headphone amp that had absolutely zero audible hum with every headphone.


----------



## ardilla

Mine hums a bit ( the 50 Hz humming) with the HD650 but not at all with Audezes or HE-500
   
  I have the "high power headphone output"-version (checked directly with Leben). If anyone wnat to know the resistor values I've posted this back in the thread.
   
  (edit) Here's my previous post about this:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1290#post_8731184
   
  All newer items are sold with lower-power outputs as standard (different resistors) - and so it will probably not hum. But I guess you lose a bit of headroom. But you can get the "high power" output by choice. But wether it hums or not depends a loton the AC quality as well, and might depend on what AC voltage is in your wall. I'm gonna try a DC-filter (Isol8 Axis)


----------



## dminches

High powered output?  I don't know if I would even want that (maybe my version already has it) since I never turn my volume control past 10 o'clock,  Usually it is barely at 9.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup. That's exactly right. I cannot hear ANY hum with the LCD-3, which makes the Leben and LCD-3 a very nice pairing. I also hear very little hum from the ATW3000ANV, which is surprising guen their high sensitivity.
> I'm not sure I have ever owned a tube headphone amp that had absolutely zero audible hum with every headphone.


 
   
  As I have stated previously, I also experience low level hum with the ATW3000ANV with the Leben. However, the synergy between the AT3k and the EAR HP4 is sublime!
   
  I had been waiting for Audeze to get a handle on their QC issues before obtaining a pair of the LCD-3 and when I finally did place an order, no stock was available from my dealer so acquired a pair of the HE-6 instead.
   
  Now waiting for the introduction of the Liquid Fire II to pair up with some Audeze's.
   
  Skylab, you may very well have addressed this issue before in some other thread but which do you prefer, The LCD-3 with the Leben or with the Liquid Fire? Very good to know you hear no hum whatsoever with these cans plugged into your CS300XS.
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Mine hums a bit ( the 50 Hz humming) with the HD650 but not at all with Audezes or HE-500
> 
> I have the "high power headphone output"-version (checked directly with Leben). If anyone wnat to know the resistor values I've posted this back in the thread.
> 
> All newer items are sold with lower-power outputs as standard (different resistors) - and so it will probably not hum. But I guess you lose a bit of headroom. But you can get the "high power" output by choice. But wether it hums or not depends a loton the AC quality as well, and might depend on what AC voltage is in your wall. I'm gonna try a DC-filter (Isol8 Axis)


 
   
  My CS-600 was purchased new in April so it seems safe to assume it has the lower power output. All of my gear is powered by (2) PS Audio Power Plant Premiers which removes the quality of the AC power from the wall as well as voltage issues from the table. The tubes have been rolled using NOS RCA and Sylvania black plates although the hum issues were present with the stock valves as well.
   
  Mine exhibits a low level hum with the HD650, a headphone that I still listen to on occasion since even though there has been incredible breakthroughs in hp technology since their introduction, these cans with the right source and amp, can still make for enjoyable listening. Currently I am using the SS Bakoon AMP-11R with them and they sound alive and exciting in comparison to the EAR HP4 using NOS RCA's.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> My *CS-600* was purchased new in April *so it seems safe to assume it has the lower power output*. All of my gear is powered by (2) PS Audio Power Plant Premiers which removes the quality of the AC power from the wall as well as voltage issues from the table. The tubes have been rolled using NOS RCA and Sylvania black plates although the hum issues were present with the stock valves as well.
> 
> Mine exhibits a low level hum with the HD650, a headphone that I still listen to on occasion since even though there has been incredible breakthroughs in hp technology since their introduction, these cans with the right source and amp, can still make for enjoyable listening. Currently I am using the SS Bakoon AMP-R11 with them and they sound alive and exciting in comparison to the EAR HP4 using NOS RCA's.


 
   
*I do not know about the CS-600*, if there ever was a higher vs lower-power/sensitivity headphone output.
   
   
  About the CS-300X(S) specifically, the Leben [size=12.727272033691406px]Managing Director[/size] himeself wrote me that there was two versions, and the they previously delivered the lower power version as standard, but could install the other version on demand. It is, as I stated, only two resistors that should be changed, any amp-mechanic could do that.
   


> [size=12.727272033691406px]_In the past there were two types of CS-300X, one has 1000mW headphone_[/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px]_output, and the other has 800mW for high efficiency headphones._[/size][size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px]_Your CS-300X should be with 1000mW headphone output for low efficiency_[/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px]_headphones, therefore, the noise shall be improved by reducing the_[/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px]_headphone output power from 1000mW to 800mW._[/size].


 
   
  At what impedace the 800/1000 mW is measured I do not know. Probably in the thirties (?)

   
  Again - I have posted the diagram and the resistor values in question *HERE*


----------



## ardilla

Same here. We probably have the same version (higher power/for less effeicient cans) 
   
  Actually - I am happy to have the DA11 in front of it, so I can use it to calibrate the volume a bit more finely. Not a necessity, nut nice. 
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> High powered output?  I don't know if I would even want that (maybe my version already has it) since I never turn my volume control past 10 o'clock,  Usually it is barely at 9.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> *I do not know about the CS-600*, if there ever was a higher vs lower-power/sensitivity headphone output.


 
   
  Regardless of whether the headphone output circuitry of the two Leben integrated models is different or not, the fact of the matter is that we both experience the low level hum when paired with the HD650. This "low level hum" issue is the problem I have using my Leben as a headphone amplifier with certain models of headphones. I find the "low level hum" to be unacceptable, especially when a number of synergistic alternatives are available that do not exhibit this background noise.


----------



## ardilla

Yup. 
   
  One possibility is to change the resistors. 
   
  Another possibility is to add an extra headphone output (drill a hole and add a TRS) for a high-sensitivity output. That would be neat, and a simple job for someone qualified. 
  Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> Regardless of whether the headphone output circuitry of the two Leben integrated models is different or not, the fact of the matter is that we both experience the low level hum when paired with the HD650. This "low level hum" issue is the problem I have using my Leben as a headphone amplifier with certain models of headphones. I find the "low level hum" to be unacceptable, especially when a number of synergistic alternatives are available that do not exhibit this background noise.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Yup.
> 
> One possibility is to change the resistors.
> 
> Another possibility is to add an extra headphone output (drill a hole and add a TRS) for a high-sensitivity output. That would be neat, and a simple job for someone qualified.


 
   
  If there are things that I do know for certain, they are my own limitations, and your suggestions, both of which may very well resolve the problem, would fall into that category. Living without the Leben even for a few days, please keep in mind that I'm old-school and use the Leben frequently to power speakers, does not strike me as an attractive thought.
   
  Much easier for me to plug into the Bakoon AMP-11R when in the mood for the HD650 which is an SS amp, not well known on Head-Fi by any means, but has been said to be in First Watt territory by some sources with a sound signature similar to a fine SET amplifier.


----------



## Skylab

Dr. Roberts to answer your earlier question, I've not heard the Liquid Fire except at meets, so I really can't offer a comparison.


----------



## ardilla

*@Dr.Roberts: *The Bakoon looks very intriguing. Do you have more to tell about it?


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> *@Dr.Roberts: *The Bakoon looks very intriguing. Do you have more to tell about it?


 
   
  I should probaby refer you first to this link so you can read Srajan's pearls of "wisdom".    http://www.bakoonproducts.com/review/amp-11r-review-6moons/    This is the only review of the amp in the English language.
   
  I have been in contact with Soo In of Bakoon International. He sent me this review in Polish.    http://highfidelity.pl/@main-1508&lang=   Just use the Yahoo "Translate" tool.
   
  From Soo In's personal experience, he recommends the HD650 and HD800 as being the most synergistic but he seems to be more of a speaker aficionado although he is now in the process of auditioning various headphones. I tend to believe that he is realizing that more and more of his customers from around the world are purchasing his amp for headphone usage.
   
  Once you have assimilated the background info, if you have any specific questions regarding the amp, I would do my best to answer them although I would suggest a personal message as to not derail the thread any more than I already have.


----------



## ardilla

Sure - thanks. Found the 6moons and the Bakoon homepage . But ot much headphone-specific info. 
   
  Please contribute here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/640158/bakoon-amp-11r-headphone-and-integrated-amplifier
   
  Now back to Leben 
  Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> Once you have assimilated the background info, if you have any specific questions regarding the amp, I would do my best to answer them although I would suggest a personal message as to not derail the thread any more than I already have.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Dr. Roberts to answer your earlier question, I've not heard the Liquid Fire except at meets, so I really can't offer a comparison.


 
   
  Too bad, I value your opinions and reviews. Thanks for responding.


----------



## vert

I had something that was beyond a hum. I was pleasantly surprised the LCD-3s are dead quiet.


----------



## ardilla

How was it beyond a hum? With what gear?
  Quote: 





vert said:


> I had something that was beyond a hum. I was pleasantly surprised the LCD-3s are dead quiet.


----------



## zoroastra

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> If there are things that I do know for certain, they are my own limitations, and your suggestions, both of which may very well resolve the problem, would fall into that category. Living without the Leben even for a few days, please keep in mind that I'm old-school and use the Leben frequently to power speakers, does not strike me as an attractive thought.
> 
> Much easier for me to plug into the Bakoon AMP-11R when in the mood for the HD650 which is an SS amp, not well known on Head-Fi by any means, but has been said to be in First Watt territory by some sources with a sound signature similar to a fine SET amplifier.


 
  For what it's worth, I sold my First Watt F3 to buy a Leben CS300Xs and have been much happier with the sound of the Leben than I was with the First Watt. I drove the First Watt with an Audiable Illusions Mod 3A pre-amp which may (or not) contribute to the difference. I have very high sensitivity speakers (>100 db/watt/meter) that, with the Leben but not with the First Watt, do emit a 50 cycle hum when idling, but that goes during playback and the sound of music being played is lovely, especially with the 45 RPM re-cuts like Clarity from Classic Records.
   
  I personally am willing to put up with a little hum in exchange for the quality of sound that comes with Leben. They come closer to that magical place where one can suspend disbelief and think one is listening to live music. I believe that if I ran less sensitive speakers, some that do not take the output to the speaker and amplify the bass portion more with mosfet amps in the crossover as mine do, that there would be no hum, but then, I might loose a bit of the sound quality.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> How was it beyond a hum? With what gear?


 
   
  With HD600 and Phonak 232. It was almost like a buzzing/static. It was definitely not the low hum that goes away when the music plays, as other owners have described. Though I think buzzing had more to do with my environmental setup.


----------



## ardilla

All I hear is the 50 Hz-ish hum, only bothersome at quiet passages with sensitive headphones.  I had som tubese however, that picked up various noise on the AC line. 
   
  Did you try swapping tubes etc?
  Quote: 





vert said:


> With HD600 and Phonak 232. It was almost like a buzzing/static. It was definitely not the low hum that goes away when the music plays, as other owners have described. Though I think buzzing had more to do with my environmental setup.


----------



## vert

I did swap the tubes. I've had the problem on 2 out of the 3 CS300s I've owned. So I was very happy when the noise disappeared with the LCD-3s. Also that they sound sublime with the Leben.


----------



## ardilla

May I ask why you have owned _three _CS300?
   
  +1 for the LCD-3/CS300 combo 
   
  Repeating myself: Any CS300 owner should try out the HE-500 
  Quote: 





vert said:


> I did swap the tubes. I've had the problem on 2 out of the 3 CS300s I've owned. So I was very happy when the noise disappeared with the LCD-3s. Also that they sound sublime with the Leben.


----------



## vert

Sold the 1st one I owned, which I immediately regretted. Then picked up a 2nd Japanese unit, and this one was picking up the buzzing/static from my setup. So I sold it.
   
  I now have a 240v unit which also had the buzzing until the LCD-3s showed up.
   
  Ironically, the 1st unit was an older Japanese model which did not have the buzzing at the time.


----------



## ardilla

As mentioned before - there are two versions. The first one might have the resistors for sensitive headphones installed.


----------



## RedBull

Is there any physical marking which leben model has high gain and which has low gain? Mine is completely silent with anything from HD650 to LCD-2 r1, but I haven't tried AD2K and Grado SR-60 yet.


----------



## ardilla

You must email Leben your serial number.

Please do so and let uss know!

(alternatively open it up from underneath and identify the resistor values on the hp out)


----------



## RedBull

Ok, thanks, I will send leben the serial number, as I am not a guy who like to like to perform surgery on my equipment is not absolutely necessary 

I will let you know my result.


----------



## MuppetFace

My experience with hum and the Leben has been frustrating. The HD800 and T1 both had a lot of background noise, but the LCDs and HE-6 were quiet. Also the Ed. 10 was quiet, which seems odd. I've also tried using the Leben with a transformer: both the TakeT TR2 and the Jecklin QA, and in both cases there was background noise. So in my case it's not just a headphone output issue.
   
  Tried cleaning the tubes. No improvement. Tried swapping the tubes. No improvement.


----------



## Clayton SF

I own the Leben CS600 and I've owned the Leben CS300XS and had never had any hum issues with any of the headphones I own. From the Denon D7000 to the Beyer DT900 600ohms headphones.


----------



## MuppetFace

Lucky you. My CS300XS has been one of the noisiest amps I've ever owned.
   
  Edit: No sarcasm intended, btw. I'm seriously glad some folks haven't had any issues.


----------



## ardilla

What AC voltage do you use?
   
  I have 230 V and only a faint 50 Hz-ish hum with the HD650 (with the high ouput resistors) . Just a tad too much for quiet passages
  Quote: 





muppetface said:


> My experience with hum and the Leben has been frustrating. The HD800 and T1 both had a lot of background noise, but the LCDs and HE-6 were quiet. Also the Ed. 10 was quiet, which seems odd. I've also tried using the Leben with a transformer: both the TakeT TR2 and the Jecklin QA, and in both cases there was background noise. So in my case it's not just a headphone output issue.
> 
> Tried cleaning the tubes. No improvement. Tried swapping the tubes. No improvement.


----------



## Wolfbane

New Member of the Leben CS300XS club here. I've kept an eye open for one of these since 1st listening to one (which was already sold) at the auhtorized dealer in Phoenix a couple of years back.
   
  Just picked my amp up and have just set it up attached to a Grant Fidelity DAC-09 and a pair of Beauty Deity speakers. It is currently equiped with all Sovtek tubes (EL84's and 12AX7's).
   
  I'm going to run it with the current tubes which are well matched and then do some tube swapping of the signal tubes first. I have a number of well matched NOS 12AX7 and 5751 tubes and was wondering if anyone has found a good match in these tubes for their amp?
   
  Wb


----------



## BugleBoy

Congratulations on your acquisition!
   
  I had summarized my thoughts earlier in this thread here: (http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/945#post_7786585)
   
  I have since tried the Philips Miniwatt EL84's (sittrad) as well and find them to be fantastic tubes...on par with Amperex d-getters. I suspect they are same tubes with different labels.
   
  Though tube rolling can be a rewarding experience; I recently found that replacing the stock fuse with the Furutech's made the Leben experience even better.
   
  Just my 2c!
   
  Cheers


----------



## Skylab

I'm using Raytheon windmill getter triple mica 5751's and Philips Holland EL84's in mine, and still loving it!


----------



## dminches

When did you swap out the sylvanias?


----------



## Wolfbane

Thanks for the link. I though the Raytheon 5751's would sound good also RCA command and GE 5 Star. I'm considering trying out a matched quad of the Psvane EL84's (which I tried very briefly in my old Scott 222C).
   
  Wondering if anyone has tried these tubes?
   
  The seller purchased an upgarded fuse for (my now) Leben so that base is covered.
   
  Wb


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Lucky you. My CS300XS has been one of the noisiest amps I've ever owned.
> 
> Edit: No sarcasm intended, btw. I'm seriously glad some folks haven't had any issues.


 

 I think I have to agree on this, CS300 is noisiest amp I have, also among tube amps. That said, I haven't had any problem with hum with my normal sensitivity headphones. Perhaps it is because it is a 12/15 W amplifier that the ground noise becomes high. It is not important to me and sound quality is excellent.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Alright guys so my Stax rig is officially out the door come mid this week. I've got it down to 2 speaker amps and the 300XS is one of them. I like the idea of getting a great head amp along with my great speaker amp. 
   
  I have a few questions for you guys. 
   
  How is reliability on newer units? Has anyone bought one really recently? Any particular issues?
   
  Secondly, I realize that this is best paired with high impedance / somewhat inefficient headphones. In ya'll's (the users) opinion how are...HD800s and T1s with this amp?
   
  Third...Any analog users that can comment on a phono stage they like with these amps? Within say...1.5k? I'd really like to own the matching Leben stage, but 3k + step up is a very hard pill to swallow.


----------



## mmlogic

Strange bout the noise problem, I've paired my CS300 with LCD2, Grado RS1, GS1000, PS1000, Denon D7000, ATH AD1000, HD800, never experienced any noise.
   
  I plug in my PS1000 and turn the volume to max now......dead quiet.   
   
  My CS300 was manufactured around 2008~2009, special 11Ω version, I paid 1000USD for it, a new one cost about 1750USD here in Taiwan, much cheaper than US and Europe to my understanding.
   
  I think CS300 is best paired with Grado, especially PS1000.
  I didn't know Raytheon 5751 windmill getter is so good until I plug in PS1000, so much air, and the bass just go deeper and deeper and deeper......


----------



## ardilla

I have the *high wattage headphone output* (on special order) for insensitive headphones, and it sound totally terrific with the HE-500, and great with the LCD's. With the HD650 there is a hum (due to the resistors used) - with the other resistors (normal versions) the hum goes away. 
   
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Alright guys so my Stax rig is officially out the door come mid this week. I've got it down to 2 speaker amps and the 300XS is one of them. I like the idea of getting a great head amp along with my great speaker amp.
> 
> I have a few questions for you guys.
> 
> ...


----------



## MorbidToaster

So the 'regular' version should be okay with sensitive cans? 
   
  If there ends up being a noise with more sensitive cans I could see ending up with an HE500 since it's such a good value and my headphones will get significantly less head time once the speakers roll in.
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I have the *high wattage headphone output* (on special order) for insensitive headphones, and it sound totally terrific with the HE-500, and great with the LCD's. With the HD650 there is a hum (due to the resistors used) - with the other resistors (normal versions) the hum goes away.


----------



## ardilla

Yup. But it is imprtant to know that there are tqo versions around. 
   
  Swapping resitsors can be done by anyone with a decent skill at soldering - posted details earlier in this thread (my info is from Leben directly) 
   
  I am thinking of getting fitted a second TRS plug using the "high sensitive" resitors - to get the best of both worlds!  
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> So the 'regular' version should be okay with sensitive cans?
> 
> If there ends up being a noise with more sensitive cans I could see ending up with an HE500 since it's such a good value and my headphones will get significantly less head time once the speakers roll in.


----------



## MorbidToaster

That's pretty nifty, but I don't think I'll be touching the inside of my amp for at least awhile. 
   
  I'll be sure to clarify with my dealer when ordering which version I'll be getting.
   
  EDIT: Which version do you think would pair better with the HD800 or T1?
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Yup. But it is imprtant to know that there are tqo versions around.
> 
> Swapping resitsors can be done by anyone with a decent skill at soldering - posted details earlier in this thread (my info is from Leben directly)
> 
> I am thinking of getting fitted a second TRS plug using the "high sensitive" resitors - to get the best of both worlds!


----------



## ardilla

The high eff. version (standard) for sure - due to risk of humming with the low eff. version. 
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> That's pretty nifty, but I don't think I'll be touching the inside of my amp for at least awhile.
> 
> I'll be sure to clarify with my dealer when ordering which version I'll be getting.
> 
> EDIT: Which version do you think would pair better with the HD800 or T1?


----------



## MorbidToaster

According to Tone Imports there's only one option / model as far as the headphone out goes right now. 
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> The high eff. version (standard) for sure - due to risk of humming with the low eff. version.


----------



## ardilla

morbidtoaster said:


> According to Tone Imports there's only one option / model as far as the headphone out goes right now.




High power version is secial order, my friend. I have this from the Leben managing director, just two months ago. ,) Dealers only know that much, never trust your dealer on the details. 

But the standard version is the one with resistors suitable for high efficiency headphones.


----------



## MorbidToaster

ardilla said:


> High power version is secial order, my friend. I have this from the Leben managing director, just two months ago. ,) Dealers only know that much, never trust your dealer on the details.
> But the standard version is the one with resistors suitable for high efficiency headphones.




They're the importer not a dealer. Not that it matters. I ordered the 300XS from my dealer today. My poor wallet. Also ordered my speakers...Harbeth HL5. Again, my poor wallet. 

Was also told trade in later for a 600 was absolutely possible. So that might happen later in the year.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> *They're the importer not a dealer*. Not that it matters. *I ordered the 300XS *from my dealer today. My poor wallet. Also ordered my speakers...Harbeth HL5. Again, my poor wallet.
> Was also told trade in later for a 600 was absolutely possible. So that might happen later in the year.


 
   
  1) No, trust neither the importer nor the dealer.
   
  2) Congratulations! Be aware that the CS600 isn't necessarily a better head-amp.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Not really concerned with the headamp. I'll use it as one, but it's definitely a speaker amp first.
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> 1) No, trust neither the importer nor the dealer.
> 
> 2) Congratulations! Be aware that the CS600 isn't necessarily a better head-amp.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Not really concerned with the headamp. I'll use it as one, but it's definitely a speaker amp first.


 
  What speakerss? The 15 Watts of the CS300 are more powerful than any other watts I have heard


----------



## MorbidToaster

Harbeth HL5s. Instantly hooked when I heard them. Kicked the snot out of the DeVores and Zus I heard. 
   
  Harbeth sais that they want a 25wpc+ to sound their best, but the 300XS has no issues powering them (and even has a proper 6ohm setting for them). I don't doubt the 600 is even better though (at over double the power). 
   
  My dealer said that out of all the stuff he sold if he had to close shop and be done he'd keep HL5s and the Leben 600. That's a pretty bold statement.
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> What speakerss? The 15 Watts of the CS300 are more powerful than any other watts I have heard


----------



## Skylab

The US Leben importer is difficult to deal with, to put it bluntly. I almost didn't buy a CS300 as a result. Fortunately I was able to find a nice used one.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I guess as long as you have a good dealer to deal with all of that crap it really changes things...
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The US Leben importer is difficult to deal with, to put it bluntly. I almost didn't buy a CS300 as a result. Fortunately I was able to find a nice used one.


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately at least as of a year or so ago there was no dealer in Chicago...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I trust my importer and dealer and I've owned both the CS300XS and the CS600. I still have the 600.
   
  I must say that as a speaker amp, the CS600 is worth the price jump from the CS300. (It was a rewarding experience to go from the 300 to the 600.) And yet if I only had the 300, I'd still be very satisfied.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Good news (since we were talking about it). My dealer said he'd do a trade in towards the 600 when the time comes. Kinda feel bad for planning to upgrade before I even have the one I'd trade in though. lol
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I trust my importer and dealer and I've owned both the CS300XS and the CS600. I still have the 600.
> 
> I must say that as a speaker amp, the CS600 is worth the price jump from the CS300. (It was a rewarding experience to go from the 300 to the 600.) And yet if I only had the 300, I'd still be very satisfied.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Good news (since we were talking about it). My dealer said he'd do a trade in towards the 600 when the time comes. Kinda feel bad for planning to upgrade before I even have the one I'd trade in though. lol


 

 Now I'd say that is good business. It gives you a chance to check out the Big Guns and when you're ready to go for the Gusto then you can go for the Mucho Gusto. One step at a time if you can't make the big leap at first. It gives you time on your time. (It took me about a year and a half to make that leap.) My dealer gave me full trade-up value toward the 600. And if I want the Leben CS600P... Oh gosh. The 600P.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Think I'll be sticking with integrateds for the near future. 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Now I'd say that is good business. It gives you a chance to check out the Big Guns and when you're ready to go for the Gusto then you can go for the Mucho Gusto. One step at a time if you can't make the big leap at first. It gives you time on your time. (It took me about a year and a half to make that leap.) My dealer gave me full trade-up value toward the 600. And if I want the Leben CS600P... Oh gosh. The 600P.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Think I'll be sticking with integrateds for the near future.


 
   
  Me too. I just a little too enthusiastic.


----------



## Wolfbane

Some information I discovered with respect to hum (speaker and headphone) on the CS300XS:
   
  Check that all six screws on the metal top plate of your amp are fastened down securely.
   
  Wb


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Harbeth HL5s. Instantly hooked when I heard them. Kicked the snot out of the DeVores and Zus I heard.
> 
> Harbeth sais that they want a 25wpc+ to sound their best, but the 300XS has no issues powering them (and even has a proper 6ohm setting for them). I don't doubt the 600 is even better though (at over double the power).
> 
> My dealer said that out of all the stuff he sold if he had to close shop and be done he'd keep HL5s and the Leben 600. That's a pretty bold statement.


 
   
  Can that speaker give you more "eargasm" than say a LCD-3?


----------



## MorbidToaster

sweden said:


> Can that speaker give you more "eargasm" than say a LCD-3?




Considering I traded my 009 rig for this speaker rig I'd say so. 

Though they're totally different sounds.


----------



## Skylab

I have been REALLY enjoying the combination of my CS300 and the Audio Technica W3000ANV recently. I get absolutely no noticeable hum or noise at all with this combo, FWIW, and the two make some seriously beautiful music together. There is, for me, simply no need for anything beyond this, for headphone listening.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'm hoping to hear these soon with the 300XS...and the TH900.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have been REALLY enjoying the combination of my CS300 and the Audio Technica W3000ANV recently. I get absolutely no noticeable hum or noise at all with this combo, FWIW, and the two make some seriously beautiful music together. There is, for me, simply no need for anything beyond this, for headphone listening.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have been REALLY enjoying the combination of my CS300 and the Audio Technica W3000ANV recently. I get absolutely no noticeable hum or noise at all with this combo, FWIW, and the two make some seriously beautiful music together. There is, for me, simply no need for anything beyond this, for headphone listening.


 
   
  How was the Sony R10 out of the Leben?


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> According to Tone Imports there's only one option / model as far as the headphone out goes right now.


 
   
  Nice to hear that you actually received a response from Jonathan! Brian knows his speakers, (not quite up to speed on headphones) and the Leben/Harbeth synergy is well known amongst certain audiophiles. I use the CS-600 with the 40.1's.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The US Leben importer is difficult to deal with, to put it bluntly.


 
   
  +1


----------



## Skylab

The R10 was fantastic out of the CS300. That was my main rig for a year. But then when I got the W3000ANV I decided I liked them about as well (very different though they are) and I sold the R10.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The R10 was fantastic out of the CS300. That was my main rig for a year. But then when I got the W3000ANV I decided I liked them about as well (very different though they are) and I sold the R10.


 
   
  Are the W3000ANV even more "musical" and euphonic than the R10?


----------



## Skylab

Definitely. I didn't think of the R10 as particularly euphonic. The W3000ANV are, but not in a way that makes them seem the least bit cloudy or mushy.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Definitely. I didn't think of the R10 as particularly euphonic. The W3000ANV are, but not in a way that makes them seem the least bit cloudy or mushy.


 
   
  Have you heard the Fostex TH-900?


----------



## dminches

I listened to a pair of R10s with my Leben and not only were they the best sounding phones I had ever hear, but they were also the most comfortable.


----------



## Abstraction

My Leben CS300 is completely quiet with HD800 and Westone 4. The amp
  does not do well with the 4, but I tried it just to check for noise.  Haven't
  tried any other cans. I have nothing else that will get close to HD800.
   
  Several years ago I was having trouble with bad AC, including hearing
  radio stations in some language I did not understand (probably eastern 
  European), and I put in a power conditioner.  It is on a bottom shelf of
  the closet that has the old G5 I use as a server, and I do not even
  remember what it is, but it has don't the job.


----------



## Skylab

sweden said:


> Have you heard the Fostex TH-900?




Yes, but only at a meet and not with the Leben. Didn't love them though.


----------



## Torero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Definitely. I didn't think of the R10 as particularly euphonic. The W3000ANV are, but not in a way that makes them seem the least bit cloudy or mushy.


 
   
  Hi Skylab,
   
  I thought that the better combination to CS300 for you were the LCD-3.

 Do you say that the W3000ANV are better combination  than LCD-3 to CS300?


----------



## Skylab

That's just not the way I see the world. The W3000ANV and LCD-3 are very different headphones. I think the Leben does well with both of them. But the those two headphones are so different it's not really a question of which is the better combination.


----------



## niten

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'm hoping to hear these soon with the 300XS...and the TH900.


 
   
  Has "soon" arrived yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Very interested on how you found this pairing.


----------



## MorbidToaster

niten said:


> Has "soon" arrived yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not yet. Still waiting on my 300XS. Hoping it'll show in under a week now.


----------



## setamp

I would love to buy a used Leben but they seldom are up for sale. Are there dealers who are good to work with?


----------



## MorbidToaster

I've gotten recommendations for In Living Stereo (NYC) and Pitch Perfect (West Coast).
   
  I of course use my local guy (who is great), Brian at Whetstone Audio in Austin, Texas. He doesn't really deal in much used gear though. Although depending on when you want to buy I'll be trading my 300XS in for a 600 later this year.
   
  Quote: 





setamp said:


> I would love to buy a used Leben but they seldom are up for sale. Are there dealers who are good to work with?


----------



## setamp

Thanks Morbid. Please let me know when you are ready!


----------



## keph

For the past 2-3 years i have been looking for my Unicorn. It's really hard to find the right 220V version of the 300XS, But i've found it. I can't wait to go back to Beijing to hear the sound of the Leben for the first time.
   
  As Skylab recommends me i will be looking for some Sylvania 6BQ5 black plates and some Raytheon 5751 Windmill getter.
   
  The seller have provided me with his NOS but slightly used Mullard EL84, Vavlo EL84 and RFT EL84 1960's (add another $500) and the Stock Sovtek tube.
   
  Can anyone identify which Mullards are these and which Valvo is that (is it worthed the optional $500 ?). How do they sound?
   
   
   
   

   

   

   

   
   
  Awaiting me at home.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> ... I'll be trading my 300XS in for a 600 later this year.


----------



## MorbidToaster

clayton sf said:


>




My dealer mentioned 'a year or 2' when I asked about the trade in. I don't think he realizes the way I work yet. 

First things first though. New TT, cart and stage.


----------



## MartinM

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this??
   
  Have been offered a good deal on a CS300 rather than the CS300xs.... am planning on running it with my LCD2's....
  what are the differences? will I notice the difference ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I had one of each for a while. I found the differences very subtle, and the tube choice had more impact than the difference between the two units. I sold the XS and kept the CS300.


----------



## MartinM

Thanks Skylab, thats good news and saves me quite a lot of cash! if you're ever in the UK... I owe you a beer!!


----------



## pierresweden

Hi!
   
  Have anyone a PDF-copy of Leben CS300 owner manual?


----------



## Abstraction

WHAT ARE THE BEST TUBES FOR A LEBEN CS300
   
   
  I retired last spring. We are moving from a 4000 sq ft townhouse in Upstate NY to an NYC apartment that will have probably 25% of the space. Everything has to be slimmed down. But IN NYC I can hear live music every night.
   
  I have been as much of an audiophile as I could afford since I was in high school, when I built an 6L6 amp (pre-stereo) with which I drove a speaker that I took out of a pre-ww II Zenith floor-model radio (got a power transformer and a lot of other parts out of that old Zenith as well).   It was ugly, on a recycled military surplus chassis, but it sounded great to me at the time.
   
  I have been through a lot of gear. I now have my last system.   The CS300 fills my needs perfectly: it is small, drives my Rosinante Signature IIs and my HD800, and it sounds good enough that I can forget the equipment and hear the music.  
   
  The rule I have too often failed to follow: Buy good enough equipment that you can forget it and forget it.
   
  I have a hodge-podge of tubes, and I will use them in the apocalytpic day when the tubes run out (I plan to live a long time), but I want to start with a set of the best tubes I can find.  What are you using?  What have you heard? What should I avoid.


----------



## Skylab

The CS300 has actually sounded good to me with pretty much every set of tubes I have used with it, but then again, I have used fairly good tubes 
   
  I have settled on Sylvania black plate 6BQ5 and Raytheon Windmill getter 5751's, but the Leben sounded great with the much less expensive GE grey plate 6BQ5 and GE 5-star 5751.


----------



## keph

My Unicorn has landed


----------



## mourip

Hi All,
   
  I have been enjoying my Leben 300XS for a year or so. I am using some HD650's and some K1000 for very satisfying results. In a few months I will be moving to a new home where I can finally play music using speakers. My present living situation did not allow this and so my focus has been headphone listening.
   
  In anticipation of this move I purchased a pair of efficient(93db), single driver, Omega speakers. I have one troubling thought however. I have a Japanese 100v version with the required external stepdown transformer (300watts) for the US. While I am sure that the stepdown unit has not limited the sonics for my headphone listening I wonder if any of you have used a similar setup for regular speaker listening? Do you think that the stepup transformer will be able to keep up with the demands of driving regular speakers?
   
  Best,
   
  Paul


----------



## Skylab

Congrats Keph.  Looks great!


----------



## MorbidToaster

I hate you Keph. Posting pictures of the amp I've been waiting a month to get to me.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats Keph.  Looks great!


 
   
  Thanks Rob...You made me purchase one...It's AMAZING
   
   
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I hate you Keph. Posting pictures of the amp I've been waiting a month to get to me.


 
   
  Hahaha Sorry MT my dad knows Mr, Hyodo so i get it faster than you do..Just wait a few more days and you will get yours. Me too i want a Harbeth now because of you..
   
  damm you people making me poor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But i like it..
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Ps. Im joking about my dad hehe..


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Keph, you should tell MT that your Dad knows the Harbeth guys too...


----------



## RedBull

ok, ok, my dad knows Harbeth and Dan Lavry, but please don't tell anyone, just between you and me.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Just got word back from Tone and it sounds like my 300XS should be here by mid next week.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Just got word back from Tone and it sounds like my 300XS should be here by mid next week.


 
   
  AMAZING...Let me know how does the CS300XS pairs with your Harbeth...If everything is going on well this year, maybe ill get one before X'mas hehe..


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





keph said:


> AMAZING...Let me know how does the CS300XS pairs with your Harbeth...If everything is going on well this year, maybe ill get one before X'mas hehe..


 
  I didn't buy blind so I can tell you they sound great together. The 300XS in theory is said to limit the dynamics of Harbeths which some say need 25w minimum but in my dealers fairly large room I didn't find it lacking in the least.


----------



## niten

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I didn't buy blind so I can tell you they sound great together. The 300XS in theory is said to limit the dynamics of Harbeths which some say need 25w minimum but in my dealers fairly large room I didn't find it lacking in the least.


 
  That said, do you suspect that you will still eventually move upwards to the CS600 for the extra power?
  Did you have a chance to audition the Harbeth SHL5 with the "big brother" Leben at your dealer?
   
  Not that I doubt the CS300XS or your impressions, but the SHL5s are some large speakers in comparison to some of the smaller Harbeth monitors I have had the pleasure to experience. One of my favorite speakers i've had the chance to see, and more importantly, hear, was a pair of the Harbeth monitor 30s. It was rather far back to recall any specifics, but I still recall how striking the rosewood looked. Simply beautiful.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I actually didn't audition it on purpose just so I wouldn't be tempted right away. I think I'll head to the dealer soon and try it though just so I know if I'll want to upgrade later.
   
  I have a feeling it'll be a significant step up due to the added power the Harbeths supposedly crave, but no rush on it. I've already talked trade in with my dealer so I know that'll be possible if I do want to upgrade later.
   
  I got mine in Cherry due to the fact I think it'll match everything else a little nicer. I really wanted the Rose though. The inky lines are quite stunning.
   
  As for the 30s...They're great and honestly probably the more size appropriate choice for my room. I decided to go but or go home though.
    
  Quote:


niten said:


> That said, do you suspect that you will still eventually move upwards to the CS600 for the extra power?
> Did you have a chance to audition the Harbeth SHL5 with the "big brother" Leben at your dealer?
> 
> Not that I doubt the CS300XS or your impressions, but the SHL5s are some large speakers in comparison to some of the smaller Harbeth monitors I have had the pleasure to experience. One of my favorite speakers i've had the chance to see, and more importantly, hear, was a pair of the Harbeth monitor 30s. It was rather far back to recall any specifics, but I still recall how striking the rosewood looked. Simply beautiful.


----------



## MorbidToaster

YES. If all goes well with customs it'll be here this week! Hype.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> YES. If all goes well with customs it'll be here this week! Hype.


 
   
  Arghh i hate customs, My Mjolnir was stuck in the Chinese Custom for more than a month...Well i hope it's different there, You will love them so much..hehe btw i just waxed my wood panel now my CS300XS looks more beautiful...


----------



## MorbidToaster

I still have my wood kit from my LCD 2.2s and I was just thinking about that.
   
  US customs tends to just kind of say... 'OH THAT'S A BOX. MOVE ALONG SIR.' When it comes down to it. Never had anything get 'stuck' in customs here.
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Arghh i hate customs, My Mjolnir was stuck in the Chinese Custom for more than a month...Well i hope it's different there, You will love them so much..hehe btw i just waxed my wood panel now my CS300XS looks more beautiful...


----------



## orkney

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I still have my wood kit from my LCD 2.2s and I was just thinking about that.
> 
> US customs tends to just kind of say... 'OH THAT'S A BOX. MOVE ALONG SIR.' When it comes down to it. Never had anything get 'stuck' in customs here.


 
   
  Interested to hear more bout your experiences, MT. I'm thinking about picking up a Leben to drive my Harbeth M30.1s but without access to a local dealer, which makes it a hard call. I suspect the CS600 might be a better fit but that model has relatively less feedback and I've heard little about its HP stage.
   
  best,
   
  o


----------



## MorbidToaster

As I understand it the headphone outs are mostly unchanged. Ask Clayton SF. He's owned the 300XS and now owns the CS600. 
   

   
  That's one of his latest shots. He pushes the much cheaper (and still very nice) Zu Omens with them. 
   
  It all depends on your room size (and how deep your pockets go). The CS600 is over 2k more than the 300XS.
   
  Quote: 





orkney said:


> Interested to hear more bout your experiences, MT. I'm thinking about picking up a Leben to drive my Harbeth M30.1s but without access to a local dealer, which makes it a hard call. I suspect the CS600 might be a better fit but that model has relatively less feedback and I've heard little about its HP stage.
> 
> best,
> 
> o


----------



## keph

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I still have my wood kit from my LCD 2.2s and I was just thinking about that.
> 
> US customs tends to just kind of say... 'OH THAT'S A BOX. MOVE ALONG SIR.' When it comes down to it. Never had anything get 'stuck' in customs here.


 
   
  That would be great, But if you need more use the Howards Feed n Wax. It's easy to find there. It will make our leben Shine like a star. Lucky you there the customs here is a pain in the as*...


----------



## Chrischeesk

Hi I'm new here. Hello to all.
   
  As usual I'm here cause I just got myself an CS300XS(Awesome) . I was just looking for a headphone amp and where I'm staying not much choice. So when I found one of these in my local hi fi store I was stunt and had to have it.
   
  My system Ibasso DX-100, AlienWare M14X, Wadia 121, Benchmark USB, Leben CS300XS, HD-650, HD-600, Stax sr-001 MKII portable, Westone UM3X, Proac Studio 110.
   

   
  I have a few question.
   
  1. My Leben did not come with a user manual and I can't seem to find one online. Can anyone help.
   
  2. My Wadia 121 DAC has 1V, 2V and 4V output. which one should I use for connecting to the Leben's line in? I'm using the 4V out now.
   
  Impression so far. Did not know 15W can drive my Proac's so well. I use to use big amp's like Cary 805's, Gryphon's. I did not have the Wadia then so very hard to compare.
   
  This system sound's so good I don't even waist the warm up time. I start listening in a minute or two from power on. 
   
  The Wadia 121 drive's the HD-650 well. It's really really hi res. But after a few day's it feel's a little thin from the Wadia's headphone out . So come's the Leben and everything is hi res and meaty but still very fast pace.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Mine came in today. Girlfriend is getting it from the dealer as we speak. Won't get to unbox it until tonight...kind if upset about that. 
   
  Speakers still aren't here though...So Uptowns and Earpods it is.  At least I can run the tubes and my new cart.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Mine came in today. Girlfriend is getting it from the dealer as we speak. Won't get to unbox it until tonight...kind if upset about that.
> 
> Speakers still aren't here though...So Uptowns and Earpods it is.  At least I can run the tubes and my new cart.


 
  Ya know...I did hear about this headphone called the HD800 you might take a liking to.....


----------



## RedBull

Guys, I have asked this questions before, long ago, but as many more people having the leben, I would like to ask again.
Does any of you use the left-right balancer knob at all? cos you know, people hearing balance is not perfect, recording is not perfect, headphone is also not perfect.
On some headphones, I hear left is louder than right, lcd2, not so muh on hd650, perfectly balance (and super beautiful vocal, btw) on at-ad2k, perfectly balance with ie8 (with some hiss on iem, of course), and so on and so on.
What is your milage pertaining to left-right balance?


----------



## cris.rodrigo

Morbid! Give us the review when you have the chance! I can't wait to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Skylab

Red Bull I've never needed the balance control on the Leben, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
   
  I did use the bass boost when I had the HD800


----------



## MorbidToaster

Yeah, well now the balance control on my brand new unit is ****ed up. 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Red Bull I've never needed the balance control on the Leben, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
> 
> I did use the bass boost when I had the HD800


 
   
  Not exactly starting well...
   
  Quote: 





cris.rodrigo said:


> Morbid! Give us the review when you have the chance! I can't wait to hear your thoughts.


 
   
  Here's the issue...When the balance control is set to 'Normal' the center is completely screwed. By that I mean imagine yourself at one end of a long hallway. The singer is way down at the end, and the band is right beside you. When moved to far right or far left it comes into focus. 
   
  I've also noticed that there is a noticeable hum that can be heard when the balance knob is grasped. Less noticeable when on 'Normal', very obvious to the left, and somewhat obvious to the right. 
   
  Tried all variables before coming to this conclusion, but it's definitely the amp. The brand. new. god. damn. $4000. amp.
   
  EDIT: The one I waited 1.5 months for.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Tried all variables before coming to this conclusion, but it's definitely the amp. The brand. new. god. damn. $4000. amp.
> 
> EDIT: The one I waited 1.5 months for.


 
  No!
  What is happening with Leben?
  I've owned both amps--the CS300XS (June 2010) and the CS600 (May 2012) and I have never had issues like yours or the ones that I've been reading about lately. I sorry to hear about it.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Maybe I should've listened to all the people that told me not to buy it...
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No!
> What is happening with Leben?
> I've owned both amps--the CS300XS (June 2010) and the CS600 (May 2012) and I have never had issues like yours or the ones that I've been reading about lately. I sorry to hear about it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Maybe I should've listened to all the people that told me not to buy it...


 

 Okay. Have you listened to the Leben through speakers to determine if it is just the headphone circuit that is screwed? The Leben has an incredible presence through speakers.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I have no ******* speakers to listen through yet. And either way I know it sounds good, but it all has to work...considering it'll be my headphone amp as well.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay. Have you listened to the Leben through speakers to determine if it is just the headphone circuit that is screwed? The Leben has an incredible presence through speakers.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I have no ******* speakers to listen through yet. And either way I know it sounds good, but it all has to work...considering it'll be my headphone amp as well.


 

 I know it's late and you're understandably frustrated. Perhaps you can wait until tomorrow and try to reseat the tubes. Maybe they got jostled out of place during transit and it is affecting the balance. Try reseating tubes tomorrow--or swap the tubes. Swap the left pair for the right. Or just reseat all of them.


----------



## MorbidToaster

While I didn't reseat them I did rap on them. No noise at all. It was one of my first thoughts. Also, why would tubes create a hum when I touch the knob?
   
  EDIT: I think the most frustrating part is the fact that it could've been back at the dealer with the ball rolling had I not been at work today. 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know it's late and you're understandably frustrated. Perhaps you can wait until tomorrow and try to reseat the tubes. Maybe they got jostled out of place during transit and it is affecting the balance. Try reseating tubes tomorrow--or swap the tubes. Swap the left pair for the right. Or just reseat all of them.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





chrischeesk said:


> Hi I'm new here. Hello to all.
> 
> As usual I'm here cause I just got myself an CS300XS(Awesome) . I was just looking for a headphone amp and where I'm staying not much choice. So when I found one of these in my local hi fi store I was stunt and had to have it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good to see another Leben 300 + ProAc user. I use my Leben 300x and ProAc sig ref 8 in a near field set-up and find them to be very musical.


----------



## keph

Does any one of you happens to hear a clipping sound when using the lcd2 with the leben at volumes over 10-11 position? I have no idea why does mine clips, it seems that my leben does not have enough juice to power the lcd using the headphone out.


----------



## Skylab

Is the hum only when you are holding the balance knob, and no hum when you don't? If so I'm not sure that's really a problem by itself.  But the other issue is strange sounding.  Not to recommend the obvious, but you're sure you got the headphones fully plugged in?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Yup. And why would it only be the balance knob, then? None of the others create a hum when I touch them...
   
  I'll try a few more things like reseating the tubes before it goes back and I take his floor model for awhile.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Is the hum only when you are holding the balance knob, and no hum when you don't? If so I'm not sure that's really a problem by itself.  But the other issue is strange sounding.  Not to recommend the obvious, but you're sure you got the headphones fully plugged in?


----------



## Skylab

Not sure, but I have had more than a few amps that hummed when I touched the volume pot, or even just the chassis, but were fine when I wasn't touching them.  But yours is NOT "fine" since it has the other strange balance issue.  I wish I could offer some help there but other than a tube problem it's hard to imagine what could be wrong.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Tried swapping and reseating tubes today, didn't help. Also tried all the knobs again and it's only the balance that hums. Even the chassis is okay. 
   
  Found yet another pretty big issue though. The far left knob (source select) isn't held in place. When I select either the far left or far right source it tries to keep turning to the left or right. I popped the top and tried again and it's obviously pulling on the cables attached to it. None of the other knobs overturn at all.
   
  Just keeps getting better and better...
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not sure, but I have had more than a few amps that hummed when I touched the volume pot, or even just the chassis, but were fine when I wasn't touching them.  But yours is NOT "fine" since it has the other strange balance issue.  I wish I could offer some help there but other than a tube problem it's hard to imagine what could be wrong.


----------



## longbowbbs

This sucks MT. I hope it does not take long to get corrected.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Tried swapping and reseating tubes today, didn't help. Also tried all the knobs again and it's only the balance that hums. Even the chassis is okay.
> 
> Found yet another pretty big issue though. The far left knob (source select) isn't held in place. When I select either the far left or far right source it tries to keep turning to the left or right. I popped the top and tried again and it's obviously pulling on the cables attached to it. None of the other knobs overturn at all.
> 
> Just keeps getting better and better...


 
   
  Dammm...I'm sorry to hear that MT...LEBEN has gone Bananas!!!


----------



## keph

I just emailed Leben considering my Headphone output power and some other question. I hope ill get a reply soon..


----------



## Skylab

Wow...that's very distressing.  Good thing you bought it from a dealer. But still, I understand the disappointment. It's happened to me numerous times (although never with a Leben).


----------



## MorbidToaster

Well, judging by the previous wait, I'd say 2 months. Unless the guy at Tone can slap a solution together, but I might just request a new unit at this point and keep my dealer's floor model until then.
   
  And if there's a single issue with the new one I'll return it and go with something like an LFD. 
   
  On top of it all I think the new Amadeus might be causing static issues. Once the speakers and amp are in my house I'm going to home demo something else and see if I run into the same issues. Never notice them with my Scout.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> This sucks MT. I hope it does not take long to get corrected.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Red Bull I've never needed the balance control on the Leben, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
> 
> I did use the bass boost when I had the HD800


 
   
  Thanks Skylab.  Yes, I often also tempted to activate the bass boost knob for some pop/rock or some thinly recorded songs as the bass effect is really 'pleasing', smoothen the high and vocals.
  If I turn the knob to the right almost all the time, would it shorten the right side tubes? as it burn more than the left side?
   
   
  I am sorry to hear the issue you encounter MT, hope you can find a solution for your Leben, but I would say, it's WORTH fighting for, since your unit is very new, maybe you can swap one to one.
  Don't give up yet, if I can suggest.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I know it's worth it. Listened to way too many amps before deciding to forsake it now, but if the replacement has issues I won't be waiting for a third. 
   
  In the bass boost...It's another reason I decided on the Leben. Some people shun tone controls and I don't understand why on earth they would. There are way too many awful recordings that benefit from the bass boost. 
   
  Heck, the only way Punk music is listenable to me is with some sort of low end boost. My copy of Raw Power sounded _fantastic _with the bass boost on. 
   
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> Thanks Skylab.  Yes, I often also tempted to activate the bass boost knob for some pop/rock or some thinly recorded songs as the bass effect is really 'pleasing', smoothen the high and vocals.
> If I turn the knob to the right almost all the time, would it shorten the right side tubes? as it burn more than the left side?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RedBull

Hopefully your second one is perfect!

I think I am one of them that avoid sound 'shaping' in the past too. I think because so many 'eq' really sound crappy with so much distortion, wooly, breaking bass, that's why I was kinda paranoid with tone control. 
Is tone control and eq the same btw?

Some of songs that I find beneft from bass boost is Air Supply album, ABBA, electronic music like Groove Coverage sounds soooo good with bass boost on.


----------



## MorbidToaster

They're all the same thing. Made to either boost or reduce a particular frequency band. 
   
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> Hopefully your second one is perfect!
> 
> I think I am one of them that avoid sound 'shaping' in the past too. I think because so many 'eq' really sound crappy with so much distortion, wooly, breaking bass, that's why I was kinda paranoid with tone control.
> *Is tone control and eq the same btw?*
> ...


----------



## Chrischeesk

Are these worth USD400? How to tell if they are the real thing?
   

   
  TK's
  Chris


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Thanks Skylab.  Yes, I often also tempted to activate the bass boost knob for some pop/rock or some thinly recorded songs as the bass effect is really 'pleasing', smoothen the high and vocals.
> If I turn the knob to the right almost all the time, would it shorten the right side tubes? as it burn more than the left side?


 
   
  No - the tube filaments are on fully regardless of what you do with the balance control. So fear not


----------



## RedBull

morbidtoaster said:


> They're all the same thing. Made to either boost or reduce a particular frequency band.




I see.




skylab said:


> No - the tube filaments are on fully regardless of what you do with the balance control. So fear not




Ok, got it.


----------



## Skylab

hey MT, did I read correctly elsewhere that the dealer loaned you his demo and that one works fine for you?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Yeah. I took a photo to post here but it's nothing special if it's not _my_ Leben, ya know? 
   
  I am happy just to see it on my shelf though, and since I have his I'll have one for my meet next weekend. 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> hey MT, did I read correctly elsewhere that the dealer loaned you his demo and that one works fine for you?


----------



## longbowbbs

Hmmm....Discount on the floor model? More $$ for Vinyl!!


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, seriously! Tell him to refund you 30% of what you paid and then go buy himself a new demo


----------



## orkney

^^^
   
  Good advice. But I've not met a Leben dealer yet who felt they needed to offer a discount of any kind, unfortunately.
   
  I'm thinking about moving to a 600 from my beloved Luxman, just for the change of pace. Long wait times and DOA product aren't making the swap a no-brainer, however.
   
  best,
   
  o


----------



## MorbidToaster

Honestly I want new this time. This is my first serious speaker rig and while I love a good used deal, I passed on his floor model Harbeths, too. Even though he'd include the stands to offset the cost.
   
  He has offered me a trade in on the 300XS when we inevitably upgrade to the 600.


----------



## Clayton SF




----------



## MorbidToaster

Still can't believe you're only pushing Omens with your 600, Clayton. 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





chrischeesk said:


> Are these worth USD400? How to tell if they are the real thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Absolutely not.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Still can't believe you're only pushing Omens with your 600, Clayton.


 

 Tell me about it. Do you have any suggestions? Since those are the only good speakers I've owned I can't compare them to anything else so I am satisfied. I'd like something smaller since I live in an apartment. Which Zu Audio speakers do you suggest (or any other manufacturer for that matter). I was also thinking about Sonus Farber but that's a little too out of my price range. Although a little bit of financial planning...


----------



## dminches

Clayton, what's your price range for speakers?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, what's your price range for speakers?


 
  Realistically it should be as much as the Leben which is $6.5K, yes?
  I would say around $3K - $4K for a pair. I paid $1K for the Omens.


----------



## dminches

I have been a big fan of Vandersteens for a long time.  I have moved up their model chain over the years.
   
  They recently started selling a model called the Treos which have gotten great reviews.  I think they list for $6k per pair.  I am not sure what the retail price is.
   
  I would recommend you check them out.


----------



## MorbidToaster

You should know already. Harbeths.  The 30.1 would probably be the ones for you.
   
  Since you like your Zus and want something smaller why not the Essence Bookshelf? You get the new tweeter that way.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Realistically it should be as much as the Leben which is $6.5K, yes?
> I would say around $3K - $4K for a pair. I paid $1K for the Omens.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks.
  Can Essence Bookshelves sound better than the larger (cabinet enclosure) Omens?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks.
> Can Essence Bookshelves sound better than the larger (cabinet enclosure) Omens?


 
  A new tweeter is a new tweeter. You'll lose extension of course, unfortunately. You could go Omen Def...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have been a big fan of Vandersteens for a long time.  I have moved up their model chain over the years.
> 
> They recently started selling a model called the Treos which have gotten great reviews.  I think they list for $6k per pair.  I am not sure what the retail price is.
> 
> I would recommend you check them out.


 
  +1 on the Treo's. They are a good size for an apartment too. Terrific sound quality. They are $6k for the pair retail.


----------



## cydest

Good afternoon,
   
  I decided to sell my 110V (USA model) Leben CS300xs with original Sovtek EL84's. I am the second owner (first owner was Zu Audio - claiming a very little use - I trust them), I used it for a few months then found a CS300x with NOS Mullards EL84's locally.
   
  It has been in storage for most of it's life. Makes no sense for me to keep two Leben's.
   
  It is electronically / technically in perfect condition. Cosmetically also excellent but I want to mention that some golden knobs have a little "peeling" (sounds to be a Leben' issue) and the RCA plate in the back is somehow bent. Both mentioned comments do not affect the function of this terrific integrated amplifier at all. Wood panels, front panels are beautiful !
   
  I used it at low volume (I'm in a townhouse and never turned the volume know above 1/4 - really) and paired it with either LS3/5a or Harbeth P3ESR. Never used to party or waking up my (loud) neighbor. I am mainly listening to jazz trio.
   
  I am in NYC and would prefer a local cash-sale so I could demonstrate.
   
  I do have the original packaging (incl. styropor), so double-packing shipping could be an option if you really motivate me.
   
  If you are really interested drop me an email. I know you are aware of the market price (eg. Audiogon), so that's the price I will sell the Leben. FYI, I am not financially desperate.
   
  I will listen and entertain any offers (PM only please) but will politely ignore lowballers.
   
  Thank you !


----------



## ardilla

If nobody answered you yet - I'd use the 2V output from the Wadia. 2V is standard. From what I gather, using 4V might not be good for your amp. General rule 4V is balanced gain, 2V is unbalanced. 
   
  PS: That is how a true headfier positions his speakers........
  Quote: 





chrischeesk said:


> Hi I'm new here. Hello to all.
> 
> As usual I'm here cause I just got myself an CS300XS(Awesome) . I was just looking for a headphone amp and where I'm staying not much choice. So when I found one of these in my local hi fi store I was stunt and had to have it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chrischeesk

Thanks for the reply ardilla. Really helpful cause as I have mention I don't have the user manual.
   
  New find The Leben and Kef LS50 are awesome together in a small room. Makes the Proac sound colored. The LS50 some how sound like headphones. ha ha.
   

   
  Cheers!
  Chris


----------



## MorbidToaster

Oh, and to update on the situation with my Leben...I'll be going to get it in a few days. A ground wire had come loose during shipping and it supposedly works fine now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Excellent news, MorbidToaster! Good to hear, really.


----------



## dminches

That's great to hear, MT.  It is always nice when/if the problem is a simple one.  Keeping our fingers crossed....


----------



## MorbidToaster

In no hurry considering I still have the dealer's floor model and it sounds nice. 
   
   

   
  That's what's spinning this morning


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> In no hurry considering I still have the dealer's floor model and it sounds nice.
> 
> That's what's spinning this morning


 
   
  Make sure the other issues are addresses as well. Wasn't there a knob that didn't feel quite right?


----------



## MorbidToaster

That was an easy fix. Just tightened the knob. I was there when that one got fixed.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Make sure the other issues are addresses as well. Wasn't there a knob that didn't feel quite right?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Got my unit back and the balance issue on the headphone out is fixed...but it now seems there's some noise from the headphone out. 
   
  IIRC this wasn't present before, and when listening with the TH900 at the meet (from the dealer's unit) I don't recall hearing it either. 
   
  This is present even when nothing is plugged in. Another strange thing that I'd like to poll the rest of you owners about is this...When at 'Normal' or all the way to the 'Left' or 'Right' and my hand is on the balance knob there's no noise. 
   
  Now, if it's anywhere in between and I touch the knob there's a pretty obvious hiss. 
   
  Does anyone else get noise when they touch the knobs on their Leben? If not it could be a deeper seeded grounding issue...


----------



## toschek

I inquired on pricejapan on these, apparently they've been discontinued.   They now have a CS-300F model, has anyone heard of it yet?  Supposedly released on 2/13/13 & uses 4x GE JAN 6197 and 2x 17EW8.  I haven't got any experience with these two tubes, any opinions?   The tubes seem like very low cost items with NOS going for $6 - $30 each from limited research.   One of the items I came across said that the 6197 was a computer tube and isn't frequently used in amp designs.
   
  Edit:  Some more info, in French (sorry) http://www.nc-audio.com/leben300f.htm
   
  Via Google Translate:
   
 [size=medium] [size=x-small]The LEBEN CS300F is the latest addition to the family Leben and the 'baby' of the range.[/size][/size]
 [size=medium] [size=x-small]However, this 'baby' has a remarkable performance. The 4 X 6197 power tubes January Deliver a very able 15 watts per channel. Musicality is, of course, of the Highest level as with all models Leben. The standard of fit and finish is exemplary and the facilities available are generous. Selectable impedance for loudspeaker outputs, a very high quality headphone output on the front panel situated, and a 'bass boost' facility for low level listening are Just a few of the features we offer CS300F. Pride of ownership is high and the legendary quality will ensure Leben That will give you your CS300F Many years of reliable services and musical"[/size][/size]


----------



## Skylab

Leben's website does have the announcement on their website about the CS-300F, but no details on the product page.
   
  for me personally going to obscure tubes like that is a bad move.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Guess I got the last good tube model.


----------



## mrtim6

Hi fellow leben lovers just wonder what was the most synergistic & musical front end have you used with the Leben ? 

Interested to hear your responses wether with headphones or speakers,

Thanks 

Tim


----------



## toschek

toschek said:


> I inquired on pricejapan on these, apparently they've been discontinued.   They now have a CS-300F model, has anyone heard of it yet?  Supposedly released on 2/13/13 & uses 4x GE JAN 6197 and 2x 17EW8.  I haven't got any experience with these two tubes, any opinions?   The tubes seem like very low cost items with NOS going for $6 - $30 each from limited research.   One of the items I came across said that the 6197 was a computer tube and isn't frequently used in amp designs.
> 
> Edit:  Some more info, in French (sorry) http://www.nc-audio.com/leben300f.htm




Whew, well I freaked obviously and checked with Tone Audio and they are still making the CS-300XS, they have just dropped the CS-300 for this new one. Apparently the new one is as expensive as a US import 300SX so I don't even want to bother with it. 

Obscure tubes might be good, a whole new realm of possibilities and perhaps discovering new "Grails" among them. (Someone else go first though.)


----------



## MorbidToaster

A turntable with a tubed phono stage. 
   
  Quote: 





mrtim6 said:


> Hi fellow leben lovers just wonder what was the most synergistic & musical front end have you used with the Leben ?
> 
> Interested to hear your responses wether with headphones or speakers,
> 
> ...


----------



## toschek

Heh I think he meant what are the best outputs, not inputs with the Leben.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Woops.
   
  HD800 for headphones, Harbeths for speakers. 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Heh I think he meant what are the best outputs, not inputs with the Leben.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Woops.
> 
> HD800 for headphones, Harbeths for speakers.


 
   
  Add a LCD series there..Btw I just changed the headphone out resistors to a 270ohm 3w from a 1.3Kohm 3w and now my CS300XS does not clips and has more power playing through the Headphone out..btw MT since your one is the latest in production we know here do you mind opening the back case and take a picture of the components inside? Since mine was build in the end of 2010 mine came in with 2 nichicon capacitor instead of the blue elna's. Mr, Yoshi Hontani said to me that at that time the elna's were out of stock.
   
  Another mod i will be doing soon is changing the coupling capacitor to a Russian NOS K40Y-9 series.They are cheap and being praised by many people. When money have been save i'll go for the V-CAP'S CuTF. Fingers crossed.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I really didn't like the LCD series with the Leben at all. I thought it was floppy and underpowered. Your mod may have changed something but man is it bad stock.
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Add a LCD series there..Btw I just changed the headphone out resistors to a 270ohm 3w from a 1.3Kohm 3w and now my CS300XS does not clips and has more power playing through the Headphone out..btw MT since your one is the latest in production we know here do you mind opening the back case and take a picture of the components inside? Since mine was build in the end of 2010 mine came in with 2 nichicon capacitor instead of the blue elna's. Mr, Yoshi Hontani said to me that at that time the elna's were out of stock.
> 
> Another mod i will be doing soon is changing the coupling capacitor to a Russian NOS K40Y-9 series.They are cheap and being praised by many people. When money have been save i'll go for the V-CAP'S CuTF. Fingers crossed.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I really didn't like the LCD series with the Leben at all. I thought it was floppy and underpowered. Your mod may have changed something but man is it bad stock.


 
   
  Ahhh Your unit must be the one with either 1.4Kohm or 1.3Kohm headphone out resistor. Try listening to some older CS300XS with the 270ohm resistor, you will probably change your opinion. It's actually not a mod though the older CS300 series all have the 270ohm resistor in it, but a light hummm can be heard when using high impedance headphones.
   





   
  ps.any chance of taking a pic of the CS300XS bottom?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Not right now. It's fine and I don't want to fiddle atm.
   
  Sometime though, sure.
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Ahhh Your unit must be the one with either 1.4Kohm or 1.3Kohm headphone out resistor. Try listening to some older CS300XS with the 270ohm resistor, you will probably change your opinion. It's actually not a mod though the older CS300 series all have the 270ohm resistor in it, but a light hummm can be heard when using high impedance headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

morbidtoaster said:


> I really didn't like the LCD series with the Leben at all. I thought it was floppy and underpowered. Your mod may have changed something but man is it bad stock.




I find the Leben/LCD-3 combination to to the best I have ever heard. To me, they are a perfect match.


----------



## shabta

x2 on leben with the HD800. It cured me of my stax 02 lust.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, seems the older CS-300 variants, which most owners think are great with the Audeze, had more power on tap than the newer ones due to that resistor change.  I love my CS-300 with Audeze, but its several years old.


----------



## dminches

Why did they make that change? Was it to accommodate higher impedance cans?


----------



## MorbidToaster

We should try and nail down a pattern for which model has which headphone out.
   
  i thought the LCD 2 and 3 were atrociously bad on mine. Underpowered distorted mess.
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I find the Leben/LCD-3 combination to to the best I have ever heard. To me, they are a perfect match.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Why did they make that change? Was it to accommodate higher impedance cans?


 
   
  Yeap...It's been change so that it does not humm with high Impedance headphones...


----------



## dminches

They should have put a switch in instead.


----------



## keph

It's actually quite easy to change the resistors if you have soldering skills. Newer models have the 1Kohm or higher value resistor, Mine came with a 1,3Kohm resistor that is why it's under powered for my LCD. But when I changed it with a 270ohm resistor, Everything changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My guess will be around the year 2005-2006 when they did the new reversion of the amp using the WBT binding post that's also when they changed the Headphone out resistors.


----------



## dminches

It is much later than that. I bought mine in 2011 and it clearly has the lower resister.


----------



## dminches

It is a bad design decision on their part.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Two different versions of the Leben CS300XS headphone output!
> 
> I asked Leben about why the HD650 (103dB)  is humming on my Leben CS300XS, whilst my less sensitive Audeze (LCD-2rev.1/3 - 93db) and HiFiman HE500 (89dB) cans are not:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> What this also implies is that one can, if one is willing to do so (or make someone capable do it for you) - actually make another headphone socket and have to sockets: One high and one low sensitivity output.


 
   
  There ya go...you can actually make them if you are willing to..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It is much later than that. I bought mine in 2011 and it clearly has the lower resister.


 
   
  Mine was produced in the late 2010 and got the 1,3Kohm resisitor..soo i guess they just randomly install them?


----------



## dminches

That is very odd. Mine is a 120v model. Is yours?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That is very odd. Mine is a 120v model. Is yours?


 
   
  mine is 220V..


----------



## keph

got some info about the CS300F model http://www.my-fi.nl/LEBEN%20CS-300F%20www.My-Fi.nl.pdf


----------



## dminches

Besides the different tube compliment, what are the other differences in specs?


----------



## MorbidToaster

I like the HD800 more than the LCD 2/3 anyway. 
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> It is a bad design decision on their part.


----------



## toschek

So, what's a good price to be looking for one of these for (used)?   I'm looking for the CS-300SX or the original CS-300.


----------



## MorbidToaster

The 300XS runs around 4k new...So I'd go by that. 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> So, what's a good price to be looking for one of these for (used)?   I'm looking for the CS-300SX or the original CS-300.


----------



## toschek

So 4K for a used one? Seems a bit high, but if you think so. I was just wondering because all of the head-fi classifieds don't have pricing any more.


----------



## MorbidToaster

No no, they're NEW at 4k. 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> So 4K for a used one? Seems a bit high, but if you think so. I was just wondering because all of the head-fi classifieds don't have pricing any more.


----------



## toschek

So like $2.8k - $3.5 used?  Does that sound about right?


----------



## Skylab

I bought my CS-300 used for $2K.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought my CS-300 used for $2K.


 
   
  You're killing me man.   I have some beautiful 94dB speakers and no amp, I want to sell my Lyr and all the tubes I have and buy a Leben RIGHT NOW.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Yeah, non XS is cheaper, of course.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought my CS-300 used for $2K.


----------



## toschek

MorbidToaster -
   
  With the Sennheiser HD800 what is a comfortable listening level on your dial?  I have read varying reports on how much headroom vs. move to room on the volume control there is.  
   
  How difficult is it to set a Japanese one up for 110v vs. 100v?  Is a step-down transformer viable?  I have a friend who lives in Tokyo that could possibly get me a 300XS and bring it back to the states when he visits us in the fall.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I didn't find there to really be any trouble finding a reasonable level with the HD800.
   
  I could see it being 'slightly too quiet' to 'slightly too loud' step wise for some people though.
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> MorbidToaster -
> 
> With the Sennheiser HD800 what is a comfortable listening level on your dial?  I have read varying reports on how much headroom vs. move to room on the volume control there is.
> 
> ...


----------



## toschek

I listen at slightly too quiet for most people. Or slightly too loud and then run back to the amp and turn it down.


----------



## keph

I got mine used for around $2300 for the CS300XS here in China..


----------



## RedBull

Btw, the new leben 300F output impedane is 300 ohms?


----------



## toschek

So how about a step down transformer or step down & line conditioner? I wouldn't want to run a 100v device right off the wall, but would a step down radically effect SQ?


----------



## toschek

So how about a step down transformer or step down & line conditioner? I wouldn't want to run a 100v device right off the wall, but would a step down radically effect SQ?

PS I am quite happy with my Lyr, it is just great with headphones ... but I have speakers in the closet, I get sick of being on a leash sometimes & our HT just does not cut it. My Marantz needs serious work and I never really loved the sound of it either, so no point in repairing that


----------



## mrtim6

I bought my Leben cs300xs here in Australia 240volt version $3250 with sovtek power tubes and electroharmonex 12xa7 pre tubes which I have replaced for nos 5751 windmill getters awesome tubes & Philips miniwatts for the power section - I some time use the leben with my Zu Audio Super Soulfly speakers - nice combo. Morbid I have the well tempered simplex - just got back into vinyl again - last time was in the 80's lol.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





mrtim6 said:


> I bought my Leben cs300xs here in Australia 240volt version $3250 with sovtek power tubes and electroharmonex 12xa7 pre tubes which I have replaced for nos 5751 windmill getters awesome tubes & Philips miniwatts for the power section - I some time use the leben with my Zu Audio Super Soulfly speakers - nice combo. Morbid I have the well tempered simplex - just got back into vinyl again - last time was in the 80's lol.


 
  Good choice on the speakers and TT. Great stuff.


----------



## toschek

I know this is an odd request, but are there any 300XS owners in the bay area who'd be willing to demo for me in exchange for a nice bottle of vino? I really want to buy but I'd kinda like to hear one first ...

PM if interested, thank you


----------



## RedBull

I am willing to demo, but I am not at bay area.  :-D


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





mrtim6 said:


> I bought my Leben cs300xs here in Australia 240volt version $3250 with sovtek power tubes and electroharmonex 12xa7 pre tubes which I have replaced for nos 5751 windmill getters awesome tubes & Philips miniwatts for the power section - I some time use the leben with my Zu Audio Super Soulfly speakers - nice combo. Morbid I have the well tempered simplex - just got back into vinyl again - last time was in the 80's lol.



  
 I hear nothing but praise for Zu's gear.   How are those Soulfly's?  We have a pair of Definitive Tech STS but I am considering selling them.  My wife hates the way they look, and TBH I don't care for them either, they look like something from a dentist's office.   I figure I can recoup at least $2k from selling them (which isn't much less than I paid used) and get something that actually looks nice in the living room.   The Zu's are really attractive, but how do they perform really?  Especially in a low watt situation?  We were looking at the Omen Def MK.I-B since they'll fit nicely on the sides of our living area or maybe the Soulfly's.  I want to be able to turn it up and not have to sit too close, although I know there are always going to be limitations.  Our living area is about 15x25 with 10ft ceilings.


Edit: Sorry for going slightly off-topic, more or less trying to suss out the synergy of Zu speakers with the Leben.


----------



## zoroastra

I drive BD-Design speakers with my Leben CS300Xs and they play very well. Mine are not the usual horn-loaded speakers that Bert Doppenberg at BD Design sells, but a variation of an open baffle design he referred to as Quasar II. His horns are very efficient and the bass is sub-amped so the Leben has more than enough power to get real-world listening levels. The driver doing the mid and high end in mine is the Lowther PM5A (extremely powerful magnet) with solid silver voice coils (and no Hi-Ferric for those who know). These speakers sound very good, better to me than most of those mentioned so far on this site (I've not heard the Zu). I play mostly vinyl and through the excellent Leben phono stage.
   
  I have two pairs of headphones, old (and not top of the line) Bayerdynamics and Sennheiser's. I use an admittedly cheap adapter between the small plug end on these headphones and the Leben, so perhaps that is the reason why I prefer to listen over speakers, but if any of you have heard BD-Design speakers and know of better sounding headphones (and cables) then please let me know. Your expertise is greatly appreciated.


----------



## orkney

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a 300x -- anyone heard these with Harbeth M30.1s? The Leben would be a straight swap with my beloved Lux.
   
  best,
   
  o


----------



## IceClass

There's a CS300 for sale on Canuckaudiomart.com (not mine).


----------



## MorbidToaster

I auditioned the Superfly when I was looking to get new speakers and they weren't up to snuff compared to the SHL5, but then again I think the Superfly is significantly cheaper. 
   
  Overall I really like Zu stuff. I see a pair of Omens in my future for a second system. As for how well they pair with low wattage? They're basically made for it. They have some wonky impedances like 12 ohms, but they're 97db at 12 ohms. You should have absolutely no problem powering them with even 4 watts or so. 
   
  They look and sound great for the money. If you want a taste, see if you can get an 'Omen Dirty Weekend'. Last I heard they were like...1k. Basically refurb drivers in a new cabinet. 
   
  You'd blow the roof off with the Leben's 15wpc.
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> I hear nothing but praise for Zu's gear.   How are those Soulfly's?  We have a pair of Definitive Tech STS but I am considering selling them.  My wife hates the way they look, and TBH I don't care for them either, they look like something from a dentist's office.   I figure I can recoup at least $2k from selling them (which isn't much less than I paid used) and get something that actually looks nice in the living room.   The Zu's are really attractive, but how do they perform really?  Especially in a low watt situation?  We were looking at the Omen Def MK.I-B since they'll fit nicely on the sides of our living area or maybe the Soulfly's.  I want to be able to turn it up and not have to sit too close, although I know there are always going to be limitations.  Our living area is about 15x25 with 10ft ceilings.
> 
> 
> Edit: Sorry for going slightly off-topic, more or less trying to suss out the synergy of Zu speakers with the Leben.


 
   
  I'm heard it with the 30.1 and ended up with SHL5s to go with mine. In a decent sized room the combo will sound excellent. How big is your space?
   
  Quote: 





orkney said:


> I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a 300x -- anyone heard these with Harbeth M30.1s? The Leben would be a straight swap with my beloved Lux.
> 
> best,
> 
> o


----------



## dminches

300sx on audiogon.com.


----------



## orkney

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> ...
> 
> I'm heard it with the 30.1 and ended up with SHL5s to go with mine. In a decent sized room the combo will sound excellent. How big is your space?


 

 Small room -- 12 x 14. C7ES3s overwhelm it a little (as did the 5s), while minimonitors can sound a little lean. I doubt the Leben will improve on the Lux as a speaker amp, but tempted to try it anyway as an HP/amp to see what the fuss is about.
   
  best,
   
  o


----------



## MorbidToaster

If you go new on the Leben make sure you get high impedance cans or you'll get noise. As for your room, I bet the 30s would sound excellent in there. I got the HL5s but am actually in a room about your size right now and they're too big but still sound great. 
   
  The new place should fix that issue though. 
   
  Quote: 





orkney said:


> Small room -- 12 x 14. C7ES3s overwhelm it a little (as did the 5s), while minimonitors can sound a little lean. I doubt the Leben will improve on the Lux as a speaker amp, but tempted to try it anyway as an HP/amp to see what the fuss is about.
> 
> best,
> 
> o


----------



## orkney

^^^
   
  Appreciate the tip, MT. This would be a used CS300x. I'd be driving W3000ANVs and HD800s. Hmm. Maybe I'll rethink this. In the meantime enjoy your Harbs! Can't wait for the arrival of my 30.1s -- that tiger ebony finish seems to be backordered halfway into next year,
   
  thanks again and best,


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





orkney said:


> ^^^
> 
> Appreciate the tip, MT. This would be a used CS300x. I'd be driving W3000ANVs and HD800s. Hmm. Maybe I'll rethink this. In the meantime enjoy your Harbs! Can't wait for the arrival of my 30.1s -- that tiger ebony finish seems to be backordered halfway into next year,
> 
> thanks again and best,


 
  They'll be worth the wait. They're wonderful. As for the W3000ANV why not try an impedance adapter? The HD800 was my favorite can with the Leben.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Was?....It is a matter of time before you get another pair....


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Was?....It is a matter of time before you get another pair....


 
  I meant when I heard then at the meet. I plan in getting a pair ASAP, but there are still significant upgrades to be made to my rig before there's money for headphones...Like a sexy ZP3.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Good point! Are you sticking with the 10X5? I love that series myself.


----------



## toschek

Maybe slightly off topic, but how would be using one of these with the Leben and HD800 http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104 ?  Is there really no need?   I have been reading a lot about using speaker amps as headphone amps, and it is supposed to work particularly well with the HD800 and HE-6.   I am very curious as to whether one of these would go well with the Leben or if I would be better off sticking to the headphone jack.
   
  I realize this entails buying a balanced cable, which I had intended to do anyway, and for that  I was looking at the Double Helix Molecule (OCC) w/ Neutrik 4 Pin XLR and XLR to 1/4" adapter.   I am just curious as to how good/bad it would be with the Leben.


----------



## MorbidToaster

No. Thinking about going back to a 20XH. It's damn near perfect for the ZP3. Wouldn't need a stupid step up transformer. The 10X5 is a great match, too...but a 450 dollar cart on a 3k table is like throwing money down the drain.
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Good point! Are you sticking with the 10X5? I love that series myself.


 
  No need. The Leben's out was more than enough.
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Maybe slightly off topic, but how would be using one of these with the Leben and HD800 http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104 ?  Is there really no need?   I have been reading a lot about using speaker amps as headphone amps, and it is supposed to work particularly well with the HD800 and HE-6.   I am very curious as to whether one of these would go well with the Leben or if I would be better off sticking to the headphone jack.
> 
> I realize this entails buying a balanced cable, which I had intended to do anyway, and for that  I was looking at the Double Helix Molecule (OCC) w/ Neutrik 4 Pin XLR and XLR to 1/4" adapter.   I am just curious as to how good/bad it would be with the Leben.


----------



## MartinM

Had my new CS300 a month now and loving it but tonight.... whats going on.... I'm guessing this thing needs burning in cos it's come alive even more tonight! 
  v.happy


----------



## MartinM

Meant to ask...
   
  The Bass boost....
  Don't tend to use it on most tracks but on some the +3db is great! and I'm no basshead!..
  Looking at the circuit diagram, just wondered if anyone has modded it to give +1db and +3db instead of +3 and +5 ?
  Looks to me without doing the Maths that a .68microF cap might be close?
  Anyone tried it!?
  Just a slight bass boost occasionally might be nice.
   
  ??


----------



## mrtim6

toschek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hi toschek - I'm very happy with Soulflys - I'm currently listening with the older drivers - my hifi dealer will be providing me with the new nano drivers in near future.

I heard the nano drivers previously in a pair of Zu Unions which were outstanding for their price/size. Zu speakers have good detail however their rason de être is their musicality - no joke I had listened to some BW 802 prior to the Zu's they were beautiful sounding incredible detail. Where IMO the Zu's floored the 802's was in musicality - I felt like I was in a live venue and kept wanting to tap my feet. (neither of above sets of speakers were paired with a leben amp)

In terms of power as Morbid pointed out earlier the Leben can drive the Superflys very very loud - I dont dare turn volume up to max with my TT as I'm sure the windows would break. 

Regarding room size check out Zu's website as they have recommended room min/max for each speaker.

I recently listened again to my Fostex TH900 with Leben cs300xs with WT Simplex through Clearaudio phono stage nano. Sounded very impressive.

Good luck in your Leben hunt! The catch will be worth it.


----------



## ardilla

dminches said:


> Why did they make that change? Was it to accommodate higher impedance cans?


 
   

  Quote:


keph said:


> Mine was produced in the late 2010 and got the 1,3Kohm resisitor..*soo i guess they just randomly install them?*


 
   
*Resistors*:
   
  They have two versions. 
   
  Leben informed me that they make the "high output" version on special order. Probably the dealers made some "random decisions"
   
  The lower output version ensures that there isn't any hum with any phones - but then it really doesnt have the same amount of grunt 
   
  The humming varies a bit with tubes and mains condition I think. At least mine seem to do so. The hum is sometimes possible to ignore with the HD650, sometimes not. I really need to get a tech to install a second output with the other resistors....


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I find the Leben/LCD-3 combination to to the best I have ever heard. To me, they are a perfect match.


 
   
  X2 on the LCD-3
   
  Also - the HE-500 is absolutely stunning with the Leben (270 ohm resistors)


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





keph said:


> Ahhh Your unit must be the one with either 1.4Kohm or 1.3Kohm headphone out resistor. Try listening to some older CS300XS with the 270ohm resistor, you will probably change your opinion. It's actually not a mod though the older CS300 series all have the 270ohm resistor in it, *but a light hummm can be heard when using high impedance headphones.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I think the important issue with regards to the humming is sensitivity rather than impedance. Anything below, say 95 dB should be practically hum-free on my unit on my AC with my tubes, I guess.


----------



## dminches

My ATH-W3000ANVs have a sensitivity of 102 dB and I have never heard them hum either.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My ATH-W3000ANVs have a sensitivity of 102 dB and I have never heard them hum either.


 
  hmmmm


----------



## RedBull

For the higher output model, how much volume do you need to dial for a normal listening level? I know this is subjective, but make a shot.
I normally just listen at 9 o'clock and 10 only for s short while for some specially nice songs.
Here I am trying to know is mine higher output or lower one.


----------



## ardilla

What cans are you using?
   
  Best way to find out is to open it up on the buttom and identify the resistors. Take a picture  
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> For the higher output model, how much volume do you need to dial for a normal listening level? I know this is subjective, but make a shot.
> I normally just listen at 9 o'clock and 10 only for s short while for some specially nice songs.
> Here I am trying to know is mine higher output or lower one.


----------



## Wolfbane

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My ATH-W3000ANVs have a sensitivity of 102 dB and I have never heard them hum either.


 
  No hum with my CS300XS hooked up to my Klipsch Cornwalls which are 99 dB. I've yet to try this amp on my Belles which are 103dB.
   
  Wb


----------



## Dr. Roberts

My experience with the Leben CS-600 is that the hum is present with higher sensitivity cans (W3000 and HD-650) while silent with lower sensitivity models (LCD-3 & HE-6). My conclusion is that the CS-300SX and the CS-600 are primarily designed to drive loudspeakers but offer a headphone output as a convenience. I purchased my unit from an authorized dealer in April of 2012.


----------



## RedBull

I am using HD650 at only around 7.30 o'clock and 9 o'clock on LCD-2.1.
No hum on all my headphones, including AD2000, AD700, except of course, my IEMs.


----------



## ardilla

I think the hum might be AC dependent. The Leben is designed in Japan (100V / 60Hz ) and since they do not have access to wall AC they never get to test it in "real-life 230 V" conditions. Same thing with some American stuff in Europe.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I think the hum might be AC dependent. The Leben is designed in Japan (100V / 60Hz ) and since they do not have access to wall AC they never get to test it in "real-life 230 V" conditions. Same thing with some American stuff in Europe.


 
   
  My Leben is powered by a Power Plant Premier, pure, unadulterated AC, although you might have a point whereby the factory is not able to test the amp on the bench without using a step-up transformer. The EAR HP4 on the other hand, a dedicated headphone amp, is manufactured in the UK and exhibits a dead silent background no matter which can I plug into it. A Leben, for what the dealers charge for one (no discounting whatsoever) should also be as quiet as a church mouse no matter what sensitivity headphone it is asked to power. This "idiosyncracy" is my biggest complaint against the unit. In fairness though, it sounds magical with Harbeth speakers.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> My Leben is powered by a Power Plant Premier, pure, unadulterated AC, although you might have a point whereby the factory is not able to test the amp on the bench without using a step-up transformer. The EAR HP4 on the other hand, a dedicated headphone amp, is manufactured in the UK and exhibits a dead silent background no matter which can I plug into it. A Leben, for what the dealers charge for one (no discounting whatsoever) should also be as quiet as a church mouse no matter what sensitivity headphone it is asked to power. This "idiosyncracy" is my biggest complaint against the unit. In fairness though, it sounds magical with Harbeth speakers.


 
   
  Well, in an ideal world you would not have to own the Powerplant


----------



## toschek

The Leben seems quite awesome, but I'm skipping it and going with a DECWARE Taboo MKIII which I picked up for $1500. I really like the looks of the Leben and maybe someday I will own one but I have to come to terms that it's just out of my price range for the time being.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The Leben seems quite awesome, but I'm skipping it and going with a DECWARE Taboo MKIII which I picked up for $1500. I really like the looks of the Leben and maybe someday I will own one but I have to come to terms that it's just out of my price range for the time being.


 
   
  Planning on any speakers with the MKIII at all? That's mainly what I bought my Leben for. I wouldn't pay 4k for one as just a headamp.


----------



## toschek

Yeah, most likely some model of Harbeth or Zu Omen if I can find a dirty weekend pair on sale. Either one would be good, but I just am starting to read up on Harbeth so I haven't quite made up my mind on which of those I'd go with. Room this will be in is small, like 13x15 so small speakers will do fine with the 4 .6wpc.

I have some 89dB atoms & I can use those at a low volume if I have to until I can find the right thing.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Planning on any speakers with the MKIII at all? That's mainly what I bought my Leben for. I wouldn't pay 4k for one as just a headamp.


 
   
  I did, although I do listen to a pair of PSB Imagine Bs with it too.  I still have not found another headamp that comes close to the Leben, especially with low impedance headphones.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> My Leben is powered by a Power Plant Premier, pure, unadulterated AC, although you might have a point whereby the factory is not able to test the amp on the bench without using a step-up transformer. The EAR HP4 on the other hand, a dedicated headphone amp, is manufactured in the UK and exhibits a dead silent background no matter which can I plug into it. A Leben, for what the dealers charge for one (no discounting whatsoever) should also be as quiet as a church mouse no matter what sensitivity headphone it is asked to power. This "idiosyncracy" is my biggest complaint against the unit. In fairness though, it sounds magical with Harbeth speakers.


 
   
   
   
  How would you compare the CS300XS and the HP4?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yeah, most likely some model of Harbeth or Zu Omen if I can find a dirty weekend pair on sale. Either one would be good, but I just am starting to read up on Harbeth so I haven't quite made up my mind on which of those I'd go with. Room this will be in is small, like 13x15 so small speakers will do fine with the 4 .6wpc.
> 
> I have some 89dB atoms & I can use those at a low volume if I have to until I can find the right thing.


 
   
  I'd be wary of Harbeths with it. The Leben works because of the 6 ohm taps and 15wpc but you're not putting near that into them with a Taboo, IIRC. The Zus might do you better for the Taboo. It's probably what I'd recommend.
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I did, although I do listen to a pair of PSB Imagine Bs with it too.  I still have not found another headamp that comes close to the Leben, especially with low impedance headphones.


 
   
  Cavalli Liquid Glass puts it to shame, IMO. I would say LF as well, but there's more roll ability in the Leben and LG.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Cavalli Liquid Glass puts it to shame, IMO. I would say LF as well, but there's more roll ability in the Leben and LG.


 
   
  I never owned a CLG but I have listened to it and it didn't excite me.  However, until I listen to it with my sources I withhold further comments.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'd be wary of Harbeths with it. The Leben works because of the 6 ohm taps and 15wpc but you're not putting near that into them with a Taboo, IIRC. The Zus might do you better for the Taboo. It's probably what I'd recommend.
> 
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Glass puts it to shame, IMO. I would say LF as well, but there's more roll ability in the Leben and LG.


 
   
  Thanks for the input, Zu seems to be the right fit for sure.   I might even pick up a pair of Decware's own speakers, but I'm sure there's something better out there.


----------



## MorbidToaster

The Zus are great speakers and the Dirty Weekend is a pretty awesome value. I'd love one for a second system down the line. Overall I prefer the Harbeths but I think the Zus would be a much better pair with the Decware. 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Thanks for the input, Zu seems to be the right fit for sure.   I might even pick up a pair of Decware's own speakers, but I'm sure there's something better out there.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> How would you compare the CS300XS and the HP4?


 
   
  I own the CS-600, the integrated big brother to the CS300XS, so I'm not sure a comparison between that piece of kit and the EAR are what you are really interested in. From what I've read on this thread, the 300XS plays nice with a wide variety of headphones, as does the 600 (except for the low level hum it exhibits with higher sensitivity headphones) as does the HP4 but without any hum, although I rarely listen to cans through the Leben. If I were to choose one of the two for headphone use only, it would be a no brainer. Purchase the EAR and roll the tubes with your favorite vintage flavor. Unfortunately though, the HP4 and Orthos really don't mate well while you could do a lot worse listening to Audezes or HiFi Mans with the Leben (low sensitivity = no hum)
   
  My favorite headphone is the HE-6, which I listen to through a linestage and a 55W tubed power amp connecting to the speaker taps of the amp to power the cans. I pair the LCD-3 with an SS Bakoon Amp 11-R, a virtually unknown integrated here on Head Fi but a meticulously designed component on the same level as amps designed by Nelson Pass. Last, but certainly not least, I only listen to the EAR when in the mood for the AT W3000ANV. I don't believe the HD-800 would be my cup of tea so I don't own a pair. Never owned any Stax gear and don't feel the need to go that route.
   
  My goal is to create the "magic" by marrying the headphone to the amp on hand that has the best synergy. The three combinations listed in the above paragraph do it for me. Personally, I would not purchase a Leben integrated for headphone use only. The odds are too high that the high sensitivity cans in ones collection will be subject to the dreaded hum.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> I own the CS-600, the integrated big brother to the CS300XS, so I'm not sure a comparison between that piece of kit and the EAR are what you are really interested in. From what I've read on this thread, the 300XS plays nice with a wide variety of headphones, as does the 600 (except for the low level hum it exhibits with higher sensitivity headphones) as does the HP4 but without any hum, although I rarely listen to cans through the Leben. If I were to choose one of the two for headphone use only, it would be a no brainer. Purchase the EAR and roll the tubes with your favorite vintage flavor. Unfortunately though, the HP4 and Orthos really don't mate well while you could do a lot worse listening to Audezes or HiFi Mans with the Leben (low sensitivity = no hum)
> 
> My favorite headphone is the HE-6, which I listen to through a linestage and a 55W tubed power amp connecting to the speaker taps of the amp to power the cans. I pair the LCD-3 with an SS Bakoon Amp 11-R, a virtually unknown integrated here on Head Fi but a meticulously designed component on the same level as amps designed by Nelson Pass. Last, but certainly not least, I only listen to the EAR when in the mood for the AT W3000ANV. I don't believe the HD-800 would be my cup of tea so I don't own a pair. Never owned any Stax gear and don't feel the need to go that route.
> 
> *My goal is to create the "magic" by marrying the headphone to the amp on hand that has the best synergy*. The three combinations listed in the above paragraph do it for me. Personally, I would not purchase a Leben integrated for headphone use only. The odds are too high that the high sensitivity cans in ones collection will be subject to the dreaded hum.


 
   
  Thanks - you just put me out of wanting the HP4 - haha 
   
  Yeay - synergy is magic. HE-500 in the Leben is yummy.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Yeay - synergy is magic. HE-500 in the Leben is yummy.


 
   
  Your ears and mine are in synch on that. If I wasn't so addicted to my current HE-6 rig, I could easily live with that can and the Leben on the proverbial desert island.
   
  Glad I could save you some dough. The HP4 has priced itself out of reach to many a HF'r.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> Your ears and mine are in synch on that. If I wasn't so addicted to my current HE-6 rig, I could easily live with that can and the Leben on the proverbial desert island.
> 
> Glad I could save you some dough. The HP4 has priced itself out of reach to many a HF'r.


 
   
  Well - you saved me the doug for the HP4 but than on the other side - now you got me wanting that HE-6 again....


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Well - you saved me the doug for the HP4 but than on the other side - now you got me wanting that HE-6 again....


 
   
  What can I say? The HE-6 is a TOTL headphone and we both know it. Frankly however, you might be better off with the HE-500/Leben combo since IMHO, the CS-300XS doesn't have the cajones to drive the 6 to its full potential.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> What can I say? The HE-6 is a TOTL headphone and we both know it. Frankly however, you might be better off with the HE-500/Leben combo since IMHO, the CS-300XS doesn't have the cajones to drive the 6 to its full potential.


 
   
  Mmm. But I can plug it into the speaker taps of my Creek 5350SE maybe?
   
  Have you compared the CD300 and hE-6 using speaker taps to your favorite HE-6 combo?


----------



## dminches

Others have tried powering the HE-6s via the speaker taps.  Hopefully they will chime in at some point.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> What can I say? The HE-6 is a TOTL headphone and we both know it. Frankly however, you might be better off with the HE-500/Leben combo since IMHO, the CS-300XS doesn't have the cajones to drive the 6 to its full potential.


 
   
  How about through speaker taps on the Leben or other low wattage amp?   I'm kind of interested in the HE-6 the more I read about it.  Sorry for going OT


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Mmm. But I can plug it into the speaker taps of my Creek 5350SE maybe?
> 
> Have you compared the CD300 and hE-6 using speaker taps to your favorite HE-6 combo?


 
   
  Yeah, no doubt the Creek has the necessary juice, especially directly from the taps. You still have the Cary? I would attach two 10 ohm Mills resistors in parallel, one to each of the the 8 ohm speaker terminals and plug the HE-6 directly into the taps. That would provide you with almost 7 wpc into the 50 ohm load which should be more than sufficient. Try each amp and decide which has better synergy with the HE-6. At a "reasonable" listening level, my money is on the Cary.
   
  Don't own any Sony cans.
   
  To stay on topic, doncha all think Leben makes some very musical gear?


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





toschek said:


> How about through speaker taps on the Leben or other low wattage amp?   I'm kind of interested in the HE-6 the more I read about it.  Sorry for going OT


 
   
  The problem with doing this is not enough wattage to properly drive the power hungry HE-6. HiFi Man's own EF-6 amp, specifically designed for the HE-6, delivers 5wpc so let's use that as a baseline. From the 8 ohm speaker terminals of the CS300XS, with 10 ohm resistors attached in parallel to equalize the load, the HE-6 is only gonna see about 2 1/2 wpc. That just won't cut it! When you read a negative review of the HE-6, most likely the reviewer used an underpowered amplifier.
   
  The only low wattage amps known to properly drive the HE-6 must be of a high current design such as a Nelson Pass F1 or a Bakoon Amp 11-R.


----------



## MorbidToaster

The Leben is extremely colored (see: Musical) compared to a lot of gear and I love it. It's beautiful inside and out.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Others have tried powering the HE-6s via the speaker taps.  Hopefully they will chime in at some point.


 
   
  I did, sounded great, but there is some concern it's not good for the output transformers, so I stopped.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> The Leben is extremely colored (see: Musical) compared to a lot of gear and I love it. It's beautiful inside and out.


 
   
  No doubt in my mind that you are enjoying your Leben/Harbeth rig. Perfect synergy!!!


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I did, sounded great, but there is some concern it's not good for the output transformers, so I stopped.


 
   
  Elaborate, please? 
   
  Mr Roberts is talking abou putting some resistors in between..
   
   



dr. roberts said:


> Yeah, no doubt the Creek has the necessary juice, especially directly from the taps. You still have the Cary? I would attach two 10 ohm Mills resistors in parallel, one to each of the the 8 ohm speaker terminals and plug the HE-6 directly into the taps. That would provide you with almost 7 wpc into the 50 ohm load which should be more than sufficient. Try each amp and decide which has better synergy with the HE-6. At a "reasonable" listening level, my money is on the Cary.
> 
> Don't own any Sony cans.
> 
> To stay on topic, doncha all think Leben makes some very musical gear?


 

   
  Yes, Mr. Roberts - I have the Cary - but it is hooked up to speakers in the living room, so plugging in the HE6 is not very practical...


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Planning on any speakers with the MKIII at all? That's mainly what I bought my Leben for. I wouldn't pay 4k for one as just a headamp.


 
   
  I think I'm going to pick up a pair of Parker 95 MKIIs and put them on cinder blocks on my desk (made from a 2" thick 70" wide piece of butcher block on tempered steel hairpin legs == completely inert).   They fit the room and get great testimonals on musicality.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I did, sounded great, but there is some concern it's not good for the output transformers, so I stopped.


 
   
  The problem is a simple one, impedance mismatch. Without resistors connected to the speaker terminals to equalize the load, undue stress is placed on the transformers and valves. I know this from first hand experience and is an issue with tubed amplifiers as opposed to SS. The sound will go wonky in short order, at least it did on my BAT, which is not as delicate a piece of gear as a Leben.
   
  You are one of the few with impeccable credentials on this site. Surprised you find the low wattage CS300XS and the HE-6 sympatico. The HE-6 sounds nice from the headphone output of the Leben CS-600 but that amp has twice the power.
   
  What other amps have you listened to the HE-6 with and how would you stack rank them including your Leben?


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Elaborate, please?
> 
> Mr Roberts is talking abou putting some resistors in between..
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> The problem is a simple one, impedance mismatch. Without resistors connected to the speaker terminals to equalize the load, undue stress is placed on the transformers and valves. I know this from first hand experience and is an issue with tubed amplifiers as opposed to SS. The sound will go wonky in short order, at least it did on my BAT, which is not as delicate a piece of gear as a Leben.
> 
> You are one of the few with impeccable credentials on this site. Surprised you find the low wattage CS300XS and the HE-6 sympatico. The HE-6 sounds nice from the headphone output of the Leben CS-600 but that amp has twice the power.
> 
> What other amps have you listened to the HE-6 with and how would you stack rank them including your Leben?


 
   
  Oh lordie, MANY. I do really like the Leben but the HE-6 needs more power than the Leben with resistors can provide.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> ..
> You are one of the few with impeccable credentials on this site. Surprised you find the low wattage CS300XS and the HE-6 sympatico. The HE-6 sounds nice from the headphone output of the Leben CS-600 but that amp has twice the power...


 
   
  Do not confuse the output on the back with the output in the front.. There are probably resistors in the front that really doesnt make more power come through than on the CS300. I've played around with resistors in the output on a Cary Xciter (darn good amp) - (with som skilled help) and changing the resistor can be totally changing everything.


----------



## ardilla

So your present favorite? Someting vintage? Present non-vintage amplifier for decent money?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Oh lordie, MANY. I do really like the Leben but the HE-6 needs more power than the Leben with resistors can provide.


----------



## Skylab

For the HE-6, I almost exclusively use the mighty Pioneer SX-1980. It sounds phenomenal with the HE-6.  But no one would buy one of these monsters just for headphones, I think.  Mine does most of its duty driving speakers.
   
  My main headphone rig these days is the Leben driving the ATH-W3000ANV.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For the HE-6, I almost exclusively use the mighty Pioneer SX-1980. It sounds phenomenal with the HE-6.  But no one would buy one of these monsters just for headphones, I think.  Mine does most of its duty driving speakers.
> 
> My main headphone rig these days is the Leben driving the ATH-W3000ANV.


 
   
  Unfortunately, the dreaded hum is present when plugging the ATH-W3000ANV into my CS-600 because of the high sensitivity of that particular headphone. Fortunately, when plugged into the HP4, the pairing presents a slice of audio nirvana.
   
  Regarding the use of resistors when amping the HE-6 from the taps. HiFi Man makes a power amp adaptor for the headphone. It's a black box consisting of resistors, loudspeaker terminals, and a balanced headphone output.


----------



## tiberiuspv

I have had a similar hum issue with CS600+HD800. In my case, it was a fixed level hum (i.e. not volume dependent), only on the right channel. Very low level, but enough to be distracting on very quiet passages and between tracks. My solution was to add an attenuator on the headphone output, which reduced the hum away to nothing while leaving plenty of dynamic headroom.
   
  Easy to do if you can use a soldering iron: just 4 resistors inside a headphone extension cord, to get about 8-10 dB reduction without changing too much the impedance curve (and thus the response curve of the HD800). There is plenty of space inside the headphone jack of the extension cord to put the 4 resistors. The big advantage of doing it that way is that you have not modded any of the components, so you can revert to the non-modded behavior by just removing the extension cord. The resistor values for the attenuator bridge depend to some extent on the headphone impedance, and I chose mine (very roughly) to match the 300-600 Ohm impedance range of the HD800. The right values may be different for the ATH-W3000ANV.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

What a shame when one shells out the necessary amount of dough to purchase a Leben that so many users experience the low level hum. It should not be necessary to use mods in order to achieve a quiet background with headphones from an integrated amp with a headphone out jack. It's really disappointing and a poor reflection on the brand itself. The really maddening aspect of this is that the U.S. importer is well aware of the situation. Of course, the dealer I purchased my unit from never brought it up before he had my check. Come to think about it, he never brought it up afterwards either, I did.
   
  When one does raise the issue with Tone Imports all one gets in the way of info is that the hum may be present depending on the impedance and the sensitivity of the headphone. No mention of a possible remedy is ever offered. Not exactly an ideal way to run a railroad!!!
   
  This owner rues the day when the Leben will require service since my understanding is there is no U.S. service rep.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> What a shame when one shells out the necessary amount of dough to purchase a Leben that so many users experience the low level hum. It should not be necessary to use mods in order to achieve a quiet background with headphones from an integrated amp with a headphone out jack. It's really disappointing and a poor reflection on the brand itself. The really maddening aspect of this is that the U.S. importer is well aware of the situation. Of course, the dealer I purchased my unit from never brought it up before he had my check. Come to think about it, he never brought it up afterwards either, I did.
> 
> When one does raise the issue with Tone Imports all one gets in the way of info is that the hum may be present depending on the impedance and the sensitivity of the headphone. No mention of a possible remedy is ever offered. Not exactly an ideal way to run a railroad!!! It
> 
> This owner rues the day when the Leben will require service since my understanding is there is no U.S. service rep.


 

 My Leben CS600 is silent on all of my headphones. I don't own many but these are the ones that I own and used with no hum:
  K701, D7000, DT990 600 ohms, HD650, DT770 Pro 32 ohms.
   
  Also, I have nothing but praise for Matt Rotunda from Pitch Perfect Audio. I purchased my Leben from him last year and when I had an issue with static coming from the speakers (and strangely, not the headphones), he was going to have my unit looked at. That never happened because it turned out to be dirty tube pins which cleaned themselves when I swapped the left for the right and back again while trying to isolate the source of the static.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My Leben CS600 is silent on all of my headphones. I don't own many but these are the ones that I own and used with no hum:
> K701, D7000, DT990 600 ohms, HD650, DT770 Pro 32 ohms.
> 
> Also, I have nothing but praise for Matt Rotunda from Pitch Perfect Audio. I purchased my Leben from him last year and when I had an issue with static coming from the speakers (and strangely, not the headphones), he was going to have my unit looked at. That never happened because it turned out to be dirty tube pins which cleaned themselves when I swapped the left for the right and back again while trying to isolate the source of the static.


 
   
  You are one of the lucky ones Clayton! Read thoroughly through the various Head Fi threads and you will soon realize just how fortunate you are with your Leben.
   
  FYI, the sensitivity of the can appears to be much more of a factor in producing the hum than the impedance of the headphone.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Any good dealer should be the only person you deal with when it comes to issues other your unit. If you have to go straight to th company or the importer something is wrong with a product like this.
   
  That's one reason I've bought entirely new gear from a local dealer. I know that if there's a issue I can give it to him and it'll be taken care of. Hell my dealer will even loan me something in the turn around process. 
   
  Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> You are one of the lucky ones Clayton! Read thoroughly through the various Head Fi threads and you will soon realize just how fortunate you are with your Leben.
> 
> FYI, the sensitivity of the can appears to be much more of a factor in producing the hum than the impedance of the headphone.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Any good dealer should be the only person you deal with when it comes to issues other your unit. If you have to go straight to th company or the importer something is wrong with a product like this.
> 
> That's one reason I've bought entirely new gear from a local dealer. I know that if there's a issue I can give it to him and it'll be taken care of. Hell my dealer will even loan me something in the turn around process.


 
   
  I deal with who you deal with. The unit arrived in a sealed factory carton and was purchased at full retail when I was living in El Paso. Brian is a nice guy and is helpful in areas that he is knowledgeable in but every question I have ever asked him regarding cans has been referred to Jonothan of Tone Imports. In other words, Brian is a speaker guy.
   
  So does that mean that you agree with me that there is indeed something wrong with a number of the Lebens being sold in the U.S.A.?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> I deal with who you deal with. The unit arrived in a sealed factory carton and was purchased at full retail when I was living in El Paso. Brian is a nice guy and is helpful in areas that he is knowledgeable in but every question I have ever asked him regarding cans has been referred to Jonothan of Tone Imports. In other words, Brian is a speaker guy.
> 
> So does that mean that you agree with me that there is indeed something wrong with a number of the Lebens being sold in the U.S.A.?


 
   
  Right, but I don't have to deal with the problem is my point. Also, Tone claims there are no different 'versions' on the HP out but there obviously are so you can't trust their answers either.
   
  Considering my unit came with a faulty ground (only effected headphones) I'd agree with your statement. Now that it's working I'm happy though and I know Brian will handle it if there's another issue.


----------



## tiberiuspv

First, there extremely few integrated amps which have a TOTL headphone amp section. To be more precise, I don't know of _any_, but my knowledge is not encyclopedic... Speaker amp designers typically tune their products for speakers, and pay only moderate attention to headphones. Obviously for economic reasons (smaller market), but also for technical reasons (much more variety of headphone behavior in terms of impedance compared to speakers) and due to a lack of understanding of the headphone afficionado market. The CS600 is just an example of this tradeoff. It is definitely not marketed/sold as a headphone amp - although it performs very nicely with a very minor adjustment. As a speaker amp, I love it with my O/96 - spectacular and musical sound. I'm definitely with MorbidToaster on this... I fell in love the first time I heard this combo, the fact that I could add headphones to the mix was just a minor bonus. I do have some nervousness when I see people buy the CS300 (or its variants) just as a headphone amp. While it may work fine, it was not purpose-designed, and I think you can get more reliable results from more specialized (and very small) companies like EC, DNA, Woo, and others.
   
  Second, as both Clayton SF and Dr Roberts mention, the hum level of the CS600 is highly headphone-dependent. For me, the HD800 has a very minimal hum, and the AKG K702 none whatsoever. I agree that it is mostly an issue of sensitivity. On sensitive speakers (the O/96 are 96dB/W @ 1m), you can actually hear it if you put your ear an inch away from the speaker. Obviously, the design was tuned to make the hum disappear around that sensitivity. I suspect the CS600 would not sound that great with super-high sensitivity horns which exceed 105 dB/W @ 1m. The HD800 sensitivity is just border-line for it (after ratioing based on the output transformer & series resistors). This is not a quality control issue (as far as I can tell), but a (not very well thought out) design choice.
   
  Third, on the quality and maintenance side, I must have been lucky since I have had no problem whatsoever... Based on forum reports, it does seem that there have been some instances of quality control issues at Leben. This can happen to any company, and needs to be rectified. I suspect it is especially a problem for smaller companies which do hand assembly (point-to-point wiring is much harder to do right repeatably than soldering sand on a slab of FR14). This is where going through a reputable local dealer pays off, as MT mentions. First, it takes the practical problem off your hands. Second, it provides a better pressure mechanism on the manufacturer to fix issues: if there are too many problems, the dealers will bail out, then the importer. Direct consumer feedback is much harder to cope with for the manufacturer, especially given the language & cultural barriers. I have also been dealing with Matt Rotunda, and I have strong confidence that he will provide the right level of support.
   
  Finally, don't take this as a partisan defense of Leben... Fanboy-ism is definitely not my style. Like all products, they have pluses and minuses. For the price, I think they provide very good value if that type of sound is what you're looking for (and you like the retro styling). For headphones, they provide very nice sound also, with some TLC required in certain cases. In the interest of full disclosure, I don't use the CS600 that often as a headphone amp, as most of my can listening time is on a Stax SR-009. The HD800 still gets about a day a week..


----------



## MorbidToaster

Man O/96 and CS600. Impressive to say the least. 
   
  My dealer is getting some O/93s I'm looking forward to hearing soon.


----------



## tiberiuspv

Yes, O/96 and CS600 make a very nice combo. A bit above the budget I had initially planned, but OK since I do not change main equipment often. My previous setup (Bryston + Maggies) was over 20 years old, so very well amortized. Not to mention that my disposable income has increased substantially over those 20 years (that's one of the few advantages of getting older). While I could afford a significantly costlier setup, I think it would be far in the diminishing returns range - I tend to avoid splurging in excess...
   
  The new setup is a radical departure from the old one, partially for aesthetic reasons. I love the Magneplanar sound, but the speakers just do not fit our new library/music room at all (much too tall and wide for the room) - a case of form trumping function
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, not to mention spousal acceptance factor. My initial choice of the O/96 was driven by the size vs the audio reviews. I went to listen to them in SF and it was love at the first note... Matt Rotunda was using a CS600 to drive them, and I just bought the whole combo without trying any other amp - it just sounded right (I did bring a fairly wide sampling of my music). Luckily, I am getting the same sound at home (dealer auditions tend to be in a much better acoustic environment than home, which can lead to unpleasant surprises). This is most likely going to be my main speaker setup for a long time...
  The headphone side is also jelling up (BHSE+SR009, HD800), I am just hesitating on getting a separate amp for the HD800, but will wait for the BHSE to be here and used for some time to see if I even need to move up from the Leben for the HD800.
  The DAC side is still work in progress (no vinyl here).
   
  This was almost a year ago and the O/93 were not out yet, so I have no comparison point. It will be interesting to get your feedback. From everything I have read, the Harbeth are no mean contender.


----------



## MorbidToaster

If you ever get antsy for another amp the Line Magnetic gear is fantastic with the Devore stuff I've heard.
   
  As for a new amp for the HD800...I'd try to get a hold of a Cavalli Liquid Glass when you do (inevitably) want a new amp. Best I've heard the HD800.
   
  I almost did the same thing you did with my system, too. I walked in, heard the system as a whole (including the turntable) and have bought almost the entire thing. I had to force myself to listen to other stuff 'just in case the Leben wasn't the best'. Ended up not being necessary.
   
  Quote: 





tiberiuspv said:


> Yes, O/96 and CS600 make a very nice combo. A bit above the budget I had initially planned, but OK since I do not change main equipment often. My previous setup (Bryston + Maggies) was over 20 years old, so very well amortized. Not to mention that my disposable income has increased substantially over those 20 years (that's one of the few advantages of getting older). While I could afford a significantly costlier setup, I think it would be far in the diminishing returns range - I tend to avoid splurging in excess...
> 
> The new setup is a radical departure from the old one, partially for aesthetic reasons. I love the Magneplanar sound, but the speakers just do not fit our new library/music room at all (much too tall and wide for the room) - a case of form trumping function
> 
> ...


----------



## Dr. Roberts

"Speaker amp designers typically tune their products for speakers, and pay only moderate attention to headphones. Obviously for economic reasons (smaller market), but also for technical reasons (much more variety of headphone behavior in terms of impedance compared to speakers) and due to a lack of understanding of the headphone aficionado market.The CS600 is just an example of this trade off. It is definitely not marketed/sold as a headphone amp - although it performs very nicely with a very minor adjustment."
   
  An interesting post on a site devoted to said "headphone aficionados".
   
  The fact is that there are many more audiophiles that listen to loudspeakers than those that listen to headphones. I did not purchase the CS-600 to listen to cans, very rarely plug a headphone into the output jack of the Leben, and have commented before that the CS-600 is a wonderful amp when paired with synergistic speakers, but this site is specific to headphone users and prospective buyers of Leben gear should know as many pertinent facts as they can before plunking down their hard-earned dollars. There are hundreds of comments on this site regarding the use of a Leben integrated and headphones, the vast majority being of a positive nature. There are also several posts commenting on the "low level hum" that is experienced by many. Some of those making such comments rule out the usage of a Leben as a headphone amplifier because to them, listening to headphones with the amp humming away in the background is unacceptable.
   
  My question would be, if this so called fix is a "minor adjustment", why is it not performed at the factory before the unit is unleashed on an unsuspecting public? It is not a QC issue. The problem is well known, has existed for some time, and it remains unresolved.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Dr. Roberts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> There are also several posts commenting on the "low level hum" that is experienced by many. Some of those making such comments rule out the usage of a Leben as a headphone amplifier because to them, listening to headphones with the amp humming away in the background is unacceptable.
> 
> My question would be, if this so called fix is a "minor adjustment", why is it not performed at the factory before the unit is unleashed on an unsuspecting public? It is not a QC issue. The problem is well known, has existed for some time, and it remains unresolved.


 
   
  My experience both with the amp and on this site is that the hum is not "experienced by many."  I don't think that comment is supportable by anything other than anecdotal evidence.
   
  Honestly, I think you have grossly exaggerated the issues with this amp.  Every component has to be matched with other components.  For example, most OTL amps will hum with highly sensitive headphones.  That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the amp.
   
  I have owned the 300sx for several years now and I have yet to find another amp that matches its performance with the headphones I own.  And it does really well with my PSB speakers too.


----------



## Skylab

What drew me to the Leben in the first place is that the headphone out is drive off the same output transformer as speakers. In essence, except for the different impedance from the secondary winding, the headphone out and the speaker out of the Leben are identical.  
   
  MANY dedicated tube headphone amps hum with low impedance high sensitivity headphones.  This isn't unusual.  I can only very barely hear any hum if I really strain to even with my ATW3000ANV, and that's with no music playing.  Hardly a big deal.
   
  Lots of choices for headphones these days, something like either Leben probably makes the most sense for someone who will use it with speakers, but I still think its pretty special with headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> "Speaker amp designers typically tune their products for speakers, and pay only moderate attention to headphones. Obviously for economic reasons (smaller market), but also for technical reasons (much more variety of headphone behavior in terms of impedance compared to speakers) and due to a lack of understanding of the headphone aficionado market.The CS600 is just an example of this trade off. It is definitely not marketed/sold as a headphone amp - although it performs very nicely with a very minor adjustment."
> 
> An interesting post on a site devoted to said "headphone aficionados".
> 
> ...


 
  Most if not all tube amps have a slight hum if you turn up the volume with no input
  Who listens to nothing? If a perfectly black background is all that is important then get a SS amp
  And under that condition with no input most SS amps will exhibit a slight hum or hiss too.
  As a Engineer I would like to know what this simple fix is?


----------



## RedBull

My CS300XS is dead silent with all headphones, and that includes those high sensitivity headphones like HD650, AT-AD2000, ATH-AD700, Grado SR-60.


----------



## RedBull

Sorry, double post.


----------



## tiberiuspv

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What drew me to the Leben in the first place is that the headphone out is drive off the same output transformer as speakers. In essence, except for the different impedance from the secondary winding, the headphone out and the speaker out of the Leben are identical.
> 
> MANY dedicated tube headphone amps hum with low impedance high sensitivity headphones.  This isn't unusual.  I can only very barely hear any hum if I really strain to even with my ATW3000ANV, and that's with no music playing.  Hardly a big deal.
> 
> Lots of choices for headphones these days, something like either Leben probably makes the most sense for someone who will use it with speakers, but I still think its pretty special with headphones.


 
  +1 - excellent summary in far fewer words than my verbose posts...


----------



## tiberiuspv

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> If you ever get antsy for another amp the Line Magnetic gear is fantastic with the Devore stuff I've heard.
> 
> As for a new amp for the HD800...I'd try to get a hold of a Cavalli Liquid Glass when you do (inevitably) want a new amp. Best I've heard the HD800.
> 
> I almost did the same thing you did with my system, too. I walked in, heard the system as a whole (including the turntable) and have bought almost the entire thing. I had to force myself to listen to other stuff 'just in case the Leben wasn't the best'. Ended up not being necessary.


 
  Agreed on LM. They were just getting established in the US when I got the Leben, so they were not on my radar screen. But I see very little reason to change at this point.
   
  A new HD800 amp is quite low on my list at this point (waiting for BHSE, hunting for a DAC), but the LG is on the list. Quite a few good choices out there: LG, ZDSE/ECBA, GS-Xv2, BHA-1. The market is moving fast enough that I don't want to spend too much time searching before I am ready to upgrade.
   
  Listening to other stuff is the right approach... I normally do that, and had done some serious research before, but I did get bowled over by the CS600/O96 combo. No regrets whatsoever.


----------



## MorbidToaster

More Bad (but easily fixed news): One of my EL84s has bit the dust. No more Leben til Wednesday.
   
  Gotta go pick up a replacement from Brian.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> More Bad (but easily fixed news): One of my EL84s has bit the dust. No more Leben til Wednesday.
> 
> Gotta go pick up a replacement from Brian.


 
   
  I was under the impression you need to match your output tubes so if one goes, you need to replace them all ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> More Bad (but easily fixed news): One of my EL84s has bit the dust. No more Leben til Wednesday.
> 
> Gotta go pick up a replacement from Brian.


 

 What? Is this from a recently purchased NOS stock of EL84s?


----------



## MorbidToaster

It's the stock tubes. One went out.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What? Is this from a recently purchased NOS stock of EL84s?


----------



## dsticker

Quote: 





vert said:


> Furutech fuse: slow, 6.4mm x 30mm, 2A
> 
> I paid about $47 plus shipping from Acoustic Sounds, but I would recommend purchasing it from a place like Music direct that allows returns just in case.
> 
> The only thing is it's a bit warm sounding. But once you've had it in your system for a week, I don't think there's any going back.


 
   
  After hours of scouring the Internet looking for this 6.4mm x 30mm size and finding absolutely nothing, I finally took the chance and bought the widely available slow, 6mm x 32mm, 2A Furutech fuse.  Lo and behold, it doesn't fit.  I know, I know.  Facepalm.  :redface:
   
  Where are you guys finding this 6.4mm x 30mm size?  I looked on Furutech's own site, Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, VH Audio, eBay, etc.  Am I blind?


----------



## mrtim6

My Leben CS300xs doubles for both speaker & h/p duties - tend to use it a little more frequently with my Zu Superflys - however yesterday I gave the TH900 a run on the Leben again using my well tempered simplex TT with zu D103 cart as front end, using a Clearaudio nano as phono stage and listened to the Underworld track Spikee on 33.3 half speed album - it was quite the exerience - revealed tons of detail ( more than the Zu's), über fast decay, plenty of excitment and allowed me to move with cut as if going on a ultra smooth motorcycle ride complete with twists & turns followed by the amazing ecstatic gitar overlay which kicks in after about 10mins 26secs - Skylab is on the money - this amp is absolutely outstanding


----------



## MorbidToaster

Good choice on the Soul Superfly. I heard them when auditioning Harbeths and if I hadn't had tons of money to blow I may very well have gotten them.
   
  Quote: 





mrtim6 said:


> My Leben CS300xs doubles for both speaker & h/p duties - tend to use it a little more frequently with my Zu Superflys - however yesterday I gave the TH900 a run on the Leben again using my well tempered simplex TT with zu D103 cart as front end, using a Clearaudio nano as phono stage and listened to the Underworld track Spikee on 33.3 half speed album - it was quite the exerience - revealed tons of detail ( more than the Zu's), über fast decay, plenty of excitment and allowed me to move with cut as if going on a ultra smooth motorcycle ride complete with twists & turns followed by the amazing ecstatic gitar overlay which kicks in after about 10mins 26secs - Skylab is on the money - this amp is absolutely outstanding


----------



## MorbidToaster

Oh, and I went to my dealer today and he confirmed that you DO NOT have to have a matched quad for the Leben. He said it'd be fine to just throw another Sovtek in there and let the amp do the work.
   
  That being said, he didn't have any Sovteks on hand (he thought he did) so he gave me a new quad of JJs EL84. I've heard mixed things between these 2 when it comes to EL84s and don't really care one way or the other.
   
  I'm hoping to eventually roll in something else and keep this quad as a backup anyway.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ And I am hoping that once you get those JJs installed that you'll be able to enjoy the Leben for the music without anymore undue distractions.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Seems fine so fa. 
   
  Have a friend over and we've been jamming since noon. Driving 'em hard right out of the gate.
   
  EDIT: Lost a few days worth of speaker run in because of this as well, but no worries. Friend brought his camera so I got some kickass dark shots of the Leben's tubes a glowin' before I put the top back on.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ And I am hoping that once you get those JJs installed that you'll be able to enjoy the Leben for the music without anymore undue distractions.


 
   
  Oh, and to anyone interested in Lebens. I saw a picture of the new enclosure for the new 300 and 300XS. It has a rectangular power switch and a purple top for the amp. They're using the new case for the XS as well because the parts they used in the current XS were extending wait times by being hard to find. Guessing it's a simple knob swap otherwise (when it comes to aesthetics).


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Oh, and I went to my dealer today and he confirmed that you DO NOT have to have a matched quad for the Leben. He said it'd be fine to just throw another Sovtek in there and let the amp do the work.
> 
> That being said, he didn't have any Sovteks on hand (he thought he did) so he gave me a new quad of JJs EL84. I've heard mixed things between these 2 when it comes to EL84s and don't really care one way or the other.
> 
> I'm hoping to eventually roll in something else and keep this quad as a backup anyway.


 
   
  Was always my understanding that the Leben did not require matched tubes, so that's good verification.  In any case, what a lot of sellers call "matched" really aren't necessarily, as real matching requires more than just an average tube tester.


----------



## Wolfbane

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Oh, and I went to my dealer today and he confirmed that you DO NOT have to have a matched quad for the Leben. He said it'd be fine to just throw another Sovtek in there and let the amp do the work.
> 
> That being said, he didn't have any Sovteks on hand (he thought he did) so he gave me a new quad of JJs EL84. I've heard mixed things between these 2 when it comes to EL84s and don't really care one way or the other.
> 
> I'm hoping to eventually roll in something else and keep this quad as a backup anyway.


 
  The CS300XS amp is self biased and will adjust for mismatched tubes, that said the more closely both tubes in one channel are matched the better. Better yet all 4 matched tubes in the same amp.
   
  BTW, I use some pretty high end laboratory qualty tube testers and when testing the original 4 EL84 tubes that Leben supplied with my CS300XS it seems so does Leben as all 4 of these tubes matched exactly.
   
  Wb


----------



## dsticker

Quote: 





dsticker said:


> After hours of scouring the Internet looking for this 6.4mm x 30mm size and finding absolutely nothing, I finally took the chance and bought the widely available slow, 6mm x 32mm, 2A Furutech fuse.  Lo and behold, it doesn't fit.  I know, I know.  Facepalm.  :redface:
> 
> Where are you guys finding this 6.4mm x 30mm size?  I looked on Furutech's own site, Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, VH Audio, eBay, etc.  Am I blind?


 
   
   
  Nope, not blind.  Just a moron!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I applied a bit more force and eureka!  It's in.  Heh, I'm so afraid of hurting my precious Leben that I might be *slightly* overly careful.


----------



## vert

I have a set of 3 sovteks and a pair of the smaller sovteks if anyone needs them for their Leben. I don't need them so if any one does, just PM.


----------



## zoroastra

dsticker said:


> Nope, not blind.  Just a moron!  :rolleyes:    I applied a bit more force and eureka!  It's in.  Heh, I'm so afraid of hurting my precious Leben that I might be *slightly* overly careful.




So how does it sound? Does that expensive little fuse make that much of a difference? I would love to hear from someone who let some non-audiophile friends or family listen to a song on the leben before change, then immediately after change and give their impressions.

In the past I had read outlandish claims by writters in various hi fi magazines about green markers on CDs, or de-magnitizing a CD, and then suddenly the resolution is so much better they can hear a mouse fart in the back rows of the philharmonic during their favourite version of the 1812 amongst the cannon blasts that they had never heard before, etc, etc,. Everyone is going to hear an improvement who spent $70 on the upgrade, but a non-audiophile who has no vested interest is more likely to say it like it is. 

Thanks


----------



## dsticker

Nope, can't tell a difference.  That said, a before-and-after comparison is obviously much more difficult than a side-by-side comparison.  There might be a minor improvement to the sound that my short term memory can't differentiate, and I'm ok with forking out $70 for the warm fuzzy feeling that I might be better off than I was before.  I certainly don't recommend that attitude to people who are short on cash, however.
   
  Edit: not that I'm rolling in cash, as my overly-cautious installation of the fuse proves.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I just want to be sure I'm getting the most out of my Leben, and I'm willing to take the advice of the more experienced Head-Fi'ers who attest to the fuse making a difference.  My ears might not be as finely tuned as theirs.


----------



## Wolfbane

That requires down time and cooling off between fuse changes so at least several minutes would be required - then warmup time. Solution is to have two CS300XS amps hooked up to the same sources and speakers. If you can't hear the difference with your current amp just play it with the fuse in and forget about it.
   
  Wb


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Yeah, well now the balance control on my brand new unit is ****ed up.
> 
> 
> Not exactly starting well...
> ...


 
   
  I felt your pain about 1.5 yr. backwards in time within this thread.  In my case I had bought the dealer's model to avoid waiting 2 months for a new unit, and the dealer's unit turned out to have balance issues and a problem with the headphone out.  My dealer simply got me a new one and that resolved the issue.  I'm glad your issue was eventually sorted out as well.  
   
  I have seen some frustration aimed at Leben over some of the recent reliability issues, but now I begin to wonder if there simply isn't some rough handling causing many of the issues due to the long distance transit from Japan.  In your case it was a ground wire, and while I never received a 'post mortem' on my original unit, it sure sounds familiar having read about yours.
   
  Being a lifelong user of tube gear, hi-fi and guitar amps, it certainly isn't uncommon to see shipping mishaps with tubes, fuses, wires, etc.  In the end, my experience with my Leben dealer and with the importer was excellent.  My input to Tone Imports would be better QA by the importer during receiving each unit.  I think perhaps this is left to the dealer and perhaps the consumer due to the transit and waiting period being long enough as it is.  Otherwise, the mishap was handled exactly like it should have been by a solid dealer / importer standing behind the product.  I was satisfied in the end and very much enjoy my CS300XS.


----------



## starfish

I'm want to upgrade my speakers and plan to spend somewhere around $3000-$3,500 US.  I'm pretty much set on getting a BBC style, stand-mounted, monitor speaker and have read some very good things about the pairing of Leben with ProAc, specifically the Response D Two, though I think the Leben in many of these cases was the CS600.  
   
  Harbeth sounds interesting, but at my self-imposed spending limit, I would think the 7es3 is the likely model.  However, in reading some of Stereophile's comments, I think they rated the ProAc a little higher in terms of full range sound and effortless pairing with all types of music.  That's pretty much describing my criteria - old school punk to jazz to acoustic guitar.
   
  I like the fact that the ProAc Studio 110 is rated well by a fellow Head-Fi-er.  I like the fact that many from 6Moons to Stereophile rate the ProAc Response D Two pretty high.  But I keep seeing the Harbeth recommendation being made, including by MorbidToaster recently and many others in the past.  
   
  My listening room is fairly small at 12 x 16 or so.  I'm looking for good recommendations given my spending limit, and predilection for a BBC monitor style speaker.  However, I'm trying to get better bass impact than I have now from an older set of B&W 601 speakers.
   
  At risk of inviting the gamut of recommendations of speaker manufacturers, let's limit it to BBC style and realize I have auditioned the Leben Importer's recommended Devore 3XL, and while they sounded good, I was not blown away enough to consider them for purchase.
   
   
  Quote: 





chrischeesk said:


> My system Ibasso DX-100, AlienWare M14X, Wadia 121, Benchmark USB, Leben CS300XS, HD-650, HD-600, Stax sr-001 MKII portable, Westone UM3X, Proac Studio 110.
> 
> 
> 
> Impression so far. Did not know 15W can drive my Proac's so well.


 
   
   
   

   Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I didn't buy blind so I can tell you they sound great together. The 300XS in theory is said to limit the dynamics of Harbeths which some say need 25w minimum but in my dealers fairly large room I didn't find it lacking in the least.


----------



## MorbidToaster

starfish said:


> I'm want to upgrade my speakers and plan to spend somewhere around $3000-$3,500 US.  I'm pretty much set on getting a BBC style, stand-mounted, monitor speaker and have read some very goods things about the pairing of Leben with ProAc, specifically the Response D Two, though I think the Leben in many of these cases was the CS600.
> 
> Harbeth sounds interesting, but at my self-imposed spending limit, I would think the 7es3 is the likely model.  However, in reading some of Stereophile's comments, I think they rated the ProAc a little higher in terms of full range sound and effortless pairing with all types of music.  That's pretty much describing my criteria - old school punk to jazz to acoustic guitar.
> 
> ...




TBH I'm worried about the HL5 being too big for our new apartment (plans have changed and we are now getting a smaller place) and am considering (after trying them in the new place of course) switching to the 30.1. We'll just have to see. Room treatment can fix some issues but in our current place they're really, really bassy. 

As for the 3XL, I really liked them for Jazz (Leven was nice with them but Line Magnetic stuff was even better). But they didn't do much for me with other genres. The Harbeths were definitely better all rounders.

Your room is bigger than mine is it will be.


----------



## starfish

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> TBH I'm worried about the HL5 being too big for our new apartment (plans have changed and we are now getting a smaller place) and am considering (after trying them in the new place of course) switching to the 30.1. We'll just have to see. Room treatment can fix some issues but in our current place they're really, really bassy.
> 
> As for the 3XL, I really liked them for Jazz (Leven was nice with them but Line Magnetic stuff was even better). But they didn't do much for me with other genres. The Harbeths were definitely better all rounders.
> 
> Your room is bigger than mine is it will be.


 
   
  I'm reading some very positive reviews of the Harbeth P3esr too.  Given my room size and closer placement to the wall, these seem like a good pairing with the Leben.  I wonder if bass response will be adequate?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Their extension leaves a lot to be desired but otherwise they're fantastic. I was really impressed when I heard them because of how tiny they are.
   
  Quote: 





starfish said:


> I'm reading some very positive reviews of the Harbeth P3esr too.  Given my room size and closer placement to the wall, these seem like a good pairing with the Leben.  I wonder if bass response will be adequate?


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





dsticker said:


> Nope, can't tell a difference.  That said, a before-and-after comparison is obviously much more difficult than a side-by-side comparison.  There might be a minor improvement to the sound that my short term memory can't differentiate, and I'm ok with forking out $70 for the warm fuzzy feeling that I might be better off than I was before.  I certainly don't recommend that attitude to people who are short on cash, however.
> 
> Edit: not that I'm rolling in cash, as my overly-cautious installation of the fuse proves.
> 
> ...


 
   

 I am surprised you cannot tell the difference. To me it was one of the most satisfying upgrade when I changed to Furutech's 6 months ago.
   
  I wonder if the improvement is a function of the tubes + the fuse...given varying levels of success with the fuse upgrade.


----------



## dsticker

What tubes are you using, BugleBoy?  I currently have Mullard EL84s and Sylvania blackplate triple mica 5751s (all NOS).  I'm thinking about expanding my tube collection in the near future and plan to start with Sylvania blackplate EL84s and Amperex Bugleboy 12AX7s.
   
  Edit: just read your signature and saw the Raytheon/Amperex tube combo.  Might give one/both of those a try too if I can find them.


----------



## BugleBoy

Yes...after trying various tube combo I have settled for Raytheon 7729 or 5751 & Amperex or Philips Miniwatt EL84's (both with d-getters).


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Who listens to nothing? If a perfectly black background is all that is important then get a SS amp


 
   
  Are you familiar with the EAR HP4? I rolled mine with NOS RCA's. Dead silent background with high or low impedance cans, and with high or low sensitivity headphones. The problem with the HP4 is that it does not drive planars as well as other amps I have in house, The LCD-3 and the HE-6 sound very nice when paired with the CS-600 rolled with NOS tubes. Then again, the planars have low sensitivity and not subject to the somewhat infamous Leben headphone hum.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> not subject to the somewhat infamous Leben headphone hum.


 
   
  You say that as though everyone experiences that.  My Leben is dead quiet even with ATH-W3000ANVs.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





dminches said:


> You say that as though everyone experiences that.  My Leben is dead quiet even with ATH-W3000ANVs.


 
   
  It is obvious, when one takes the time to read through all 113 pages of this thread that "everyone" does NOT experience the hum. However, Tone Imports is well aware that the "hum" does exist in many of the units sold in the U.S.
   
  Personally, I am glad that there is no "hum" present when you plug in your ATW3k. However, I use my EAR HP4 for that model and could not be more pleased with the listening experience. The Leben is not an option for me.


----------



## zoroastra

Quote: 





dsticker said:


> Nope, can't tell a difference.  That said, a before-and-after comparison is obviously much more difficult than a side-by-side comparison.  There might be a minor improvement to the sound that my short term memory can't differentiate, and I'm ok with forking out $70 for the warm fuzzy feeling that I might be better off than I was before.  I certainly don't recommend that attitude to people who are short on cash, however.
> 
> Edit: not that I'm rolling in cash, as my overly-cautious installation of the fuse proves.
> 
> ...


 

 I appreciate your honesty.
   
  The listening does have to be done in the same unit, same everything except the fuse. The change doesn't require "warm up" time really, as if the fuse warms up it breaks, that's it's function. The problem with side-by-side comparisons is that you are comparing to two different devices. It's apples and oranges. Though both built by the same builder, each will sound subtlely different to the other, with or without a $70 fuse transplant. They will have diffent tensions in the transformer windings, different tensions in the capacitors, there may be slightly longer run wire between two components, even the temperature of the wire and pin before application of solder in each will vary (determines how well bonded, or, unlikely, if a cold solder joint with cracks between the two exists). These, and other reasons (like hearing loss), are why some of our members hear a hum in their headphones, and others with the same headphones and Leben CS300Xs do not.
   
  I've become long in the tooth and entirely too synical in my old age, please forgive me, but thanks again for your honesty.


----------



## Wolfbane

Quote: 





zoroastra said:


> I appreciate your honesty.
> 
> The listening does have to be done in the same unit, same everything except the fuse. The change doesn't require "warm up" time really, as if the fuse warms up it breaks, that's it's function. The problem with side-by-side comparisons is that you are comparing to two different devices. It's apples and oranges. Though both built by the same builder, each will sound subtlely different to the other, with or without a $70 fuse transplant. They will have diffent tensions in the transformer windings, different tensions in the capacitors, there may be slightly longer run wire between two components, even the temperature of the wire and pin before application of solder in each will vary (determines how well bonded, or, unlikely, if a cold solder joint with cracks between the two exists). These, and other reasons (like hearing loss), are why some of our members hear a hum in their headphones, and others with the same headphones and Leben CS300Xs do not.
> 
> I've become long in the tooth and entirely too synical in my old age, please forgive me, but thanks again for your honesty.


 
   
  It is not the fuse that requires warmup time and cooling time. Every tube amp I've owned sounded better after the tubes have warmed up (i.e. at least 1/2 hour. This is a fair amount of time 'to remember'' exactly what an amp sounded like.
   
  Wb


----------



## zoroastra

Quote: 





wolfbane said:


> It is not the fuse that requires warmup time and cooling time. Every tube amp I've owned sounded better after the tubes have warmed up (i.e. at least 1/2 hour. This is a fair amount of time 'to remember'' exactly what an amp sounded like.
> 
> Wb


 
  My opinion only, If the amplifier and everything else in the chain is already warmed up, then play a tract on your best LP or CD, then turn off the power at the source, open the fuse holder, switch fuse, close fuse holder, turn power back on, wait only 30 seconds to get to same operational temperature and play same tract. Too many things change in a 1/2 hour, including my memory of the sound (Oldtimmers disease).
   
  Mark


----------



## dsticker

Good point, Mark.  My before/after comparison was spread over a couple days so that's probably the reason I didn't notice a difference.  Getting back to my overly cautious nature, I always avoid hot cycling my Leben (only to avoid tube wear) so I probably won't try a quick fuse swap.
   
  Bottom line: I would probably ignore my experience or take it with many grains of salt.


----------



## zoroastra

Regarding Fuses,
   
  Stereophile seems to think highly of the Audio Magic Nano-Liquid Premium Fuses, see: www.audio-magic.com/Prod-NanoFuse.html
  Anyone try that one?
   
  Mark


----------



## MorbidToaster

Since we're talking about tweaks...has anyone tried new feet on these? I'm moving next week and am packing so when I unhooked the Leben I fiddled with the feet and realized they were hollow plastic.
   
  They feel pretty cheap, and it's the only thing I dislike about the look, too.
   
  I'm thinking about trying some of the Mapleshade threaded feet (Low Heavyfoot @ 1½"). It'd be just over $100 to redo all the Leben's feet, and I think if nothing else it'd look kick ass.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Since we're talking about tweaks...has anyone tried new feet on these? I'm moving next week and am packing so when I unhooked the Leben I fiddled with the feet and realized they were hollow plastic.
> 
> They feel pretty cheap, and it's the only thing I dislike about the look, too.


 
   
  I've got the Leben placed on a Billy Bags Component Rack with a Vibrapod under each of the feet. Should be a sufficient amount of vibration control as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## MorbidToaster

It's honestly more for looks and simplicity. The threaded feet wouldn't be something the component 'sits on' they'd be part of the unit itself.
   
  Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> I've got the Leben placed on a Billy Bags Component Rack with a Vibrapod under each of the feet. Should be a sufficient amount of vibration control as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## vert

I'm looking to get a Stillpoints component stand for the Leben.
   
  I put one under my Naim dac and I've been trying to pick my jaw off the ground. I'm hoping there's a similar leap with the Leben.
   
  As far as A and B comparisons with fuses, I think it's pretty easy. Put the new fuse in for a couple weeks, then take it out. You'll know what you're missing right away.


----------



## mrtim6

Just wondering if vibration contol is snake oil for the Leben?

The unit weighs around 10kg and does not have moving parts save volume control & switches.

Wouldn't vibration control be more suitable for a turntable or cd player?

Just throwing it out there feel free to agree or disagree.


----------



## MorbidToaster

mrtim6 said:


> Just wondering if vibration contol is snake oil for the Leben?
> 
> The unit weighs around 10kg and does not have moving parts save volume control & switches.
> 
> ...




Tube gear benefits from it in general, usually.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> It's honestly more for looks and simplicity. The threaded feet wouldn't be something the component 'sits on' they'd be part of the unit itself.


 
   
  No doubt Mapleshade feet would do a fine job controlling vibration and look much better cosmetically than my setup and even better than a stock CS300XS. Just be sure the Leben is placed on a sturdy rack or platform and you would be good to go MT. Only problem is, and I know this from doing business with them, their products are not exactly inexpensive.


----------



## MorbidToaster

$140 for the custom threaded feet. A bit steep, but not bad considering the amp is 4k new. 
   
  It'll have to wait a bit though as I just dropped 300 at Record Store Day.
   
  Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> No doubt Mapleshade feet would do a fine job controlling vibration and look much better cosmetically than my setup and even better than a stock CS300XS. Just be sure the Leben is placed on a sturdy rack or platform and you would be good to go MT. Only problem is, and I know this from doing business with them, their products are not exactly inexpensive.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> $140 for the custom threaded feet. A bit steep, but not bad considering the amp is 4k new.


 
   
  Now you have me interested in a quad! Custom? Are they familiar with Leben at Mapleshade? I do love the aesthetics of their footers.


----------



## MorbidToaster

They have to do the threads custom so they'll screw into the Leben correctly. The measurement is M4x0.7 if you go for it, btw. 
   
  They didn't sound familiar, but they told me what I needed to find out on the screws.
   
  I'd do the low heavy feet. I don't like how HUGE AND STUPID some of their footers are, but 1 1/2" isn't too high, and the current feet are already 2" in diameter.
   
  Quote: 





dr. roberts said:


> Now you have me interested in a quad! Custom? Are they familiar with Leben at Mapleshade? I do love the aesthetics of their footers.


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> They have to do the threads custom so they'll screw into the Leben correctly. The measurement is M4x0.7 if you go for it, btw.


 
   
  Keep in mind that I have the CS-600. Wondering if Leben uses different feet for the smaller sister amp. Measuring screws is really not my forte but appreciate the info MT.


----------



## vert

Quote: 





> Just wondering if vibration contol is snake oil for the Leben?
> 
> The unit weighs around 10kg and does not have moving parts save volume control & switches.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My Naim dac has no moving parts, and it's easily the biggest upgrade I've experienced putting the stillpoints stand underneath it.
   
  So I would assume there would be a difference with the Leben, maybe even a big difference. I wouldn't try the stillpoints stand though unless you're ready to buy. It's addictive.


----------



## mrtim6

Thanks for the responses guys, could you elaborate how the vibration control would benefit the amp? 

. I take it the vibrations are comming from the speakers as opposed to when amp is used just for headphones?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## zoroastra

Quote: 





mrtim6 said:


> Thanks for the responses guys, could you elaborate how the vibration control would benefit the amp?
> 
> . I take it the vibrations are comming from the speakers as opposed to when amp is used just for headphones?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  All electronics vibrate some, especially transformers. That is why some transformers are "potted" (resin and steel casing to solidify and increase mass), others (like those in the Leben) are not. These run cooler but might vibrate a bit so gel feet on the bottom seems reasonable to prevent those vibrations being sent through a rack to a turntable and tonearm? or CD player (wouldn't want to add to jitter).


----------



## Xenophon

Hi guys, I have a couple of quick questions:
   
  I'm the proud owner of a pair of BD  DT 880 headphones (600 Ohm) and am currently using a very basic setup to drive them.  There sems to be a general consensus that these phones just love a tube amp and are complemented by them.  Worth knowing:  I exclusively listen to classical music (chamber music, mostly violin and oboe + concerto and some vocal works).
   
  Am very impressed with what I read about the Leben amplifiers and have the possibility to pick up one.  Only trouble is, which model?
   
  - In one EU based shop I can get the CS300 for about 3300 USD, all taxes and delivery included.
  - Another one has one last CS300XS for about 3950, taxes and delivery included.
   
  From what I understand, the 300XS is no longer being produced but uses some premium components as compared to the base version.  
   
  a) Any thoughts about the 300XS being worth the premium in terms of output quality?  The higher price is not an insurmountable obstacle but of course if you think it's not worth it then I'd rather lee that cash in my pocket and blow it on some other component
   
  Lastly,  the larger brother of those 2, the CS 600 can be purchased but the price is nearly double the base price  at about 6900 USD.  It also has a headphone jack, some extra options, other tubes etc (and it weighs in at 20 kg as compared to 10 for the 300 version).  Does anyone have experience using this setup with their headphones?  Recommended and worth the premium?  I don't think the units will ever be used to drive loudspeakers, btw, it's headphones only.
   
  Thanks for your insights and have a great day!


----------



## Skylab

My personal experience was that for headphones the CS-300 and CS-300XS were virtually indistinguishable.


----------



## MorbidToaster

xenophon said:


> Hi guys, I have a couple of quick questions:
> 
> I'm the proud owner of a pair of BD  DT 880 headphones (600 Ohm) and am currently using a very basic setup to drive them.  There sems to be a general consensus that these phones just love a tube amp and are complemented by them.  Worth knowing:  I exclusively listen to classical music (chamber music, mostly violin and oboe + concerto and some vocal works).
> 
> ...




Those quoted prices are what I was quoted on new units as well when I bought my XS recently.


----------



## Xenophon

Many thanks, Skylab and MorbidToaster!  Much appreciated!  (And Skylab:  I'm a fan of your reviews).  Have learned a lot in a very short time here on HeadFi.  Only trouble is this hobby, fueled by what you read on the site suck up disposable income faster than a starved crackhead.
   
  I'll lay off the expensive havana cigars for a while and funnel that money towards equipment and music.
   
  Anyway, the Leben amplifiers immediately appealed to me, even without having heard them.  They exude a kind of retro-minimalism (love the wooden panels too) that no modern amp, certainly not all that made in China stuff that's flooding the market, has.  Probably no coincidence that I also like japanese food, write with a Nakaya fountain pen and sleep on tatami in a minimalist bedroom with japanese furniture.  But hey, the car is German


----------



## MorbidToaster

The looks had to grow on me at first, but now I think it's really gorgeous. It's just a joy to look at every time now.


----------



## BugleBoy

Couple of weeks ago my Leben CS-300x went up in smoke. I heard 2 popping sounds within 10 Seconds of switching it on with smoke starting to come up from underneath the amp soon afterwards. I immediately switched off the Leben and tested the tubes...both tubes on the right channel were dead with the left channel still testing strong. (The right channel tubes have always worn out a lot quicker than the left channel on my Leben...not sure why?)
   
  I then started investigating any other signs of damage. Underneath the amp I found a burnt resistor...100ohm I think. Other than that I could not find any visible signs of damage. Is there anything else i should be looking for?
   
  I have attached a couple of image for reference. The resistor below the "BLOWN RESISTOR" text is the only one that seemed to have been damaged.
   

   

   
  I have since replaced the resistor with the same value (100 ohm) and brand (Riken). Now when I switch on the amp the Red operations LED  will NOT light up...however the amp does play music; but the volume levels have dropped significantly with almost no Bass.
   
  What else could be the problem?
   
  I will be grateful for any help in fixing my amp.
   
   
  PS: I sent 2 emails to Leben but got no response.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Couple of weeks ago on the Leben CS-300x went up in smoke. I heard 2 popping sounds within 10 Seconds of switching it on with smoke starting to come up from underneath the amp soon afterwards. I immediately switched off the Leben and tested the tubes...both tubes on the right channel were dead with the left channel still testing strong. (The right channel tubes have always worn out a lot quicker than the left channel on my Leben...not sure why?)
> 
> I then started investigating any other signs of damage. Underneath the amp I found a burnt resistor...100ohm I think. Other than that I could not find any visible signs of damage. Is there anything else i should be looking for?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Auch! I am sorry to hear about this! 
   
  I am sure you will hear from Leben - they have always responded to me. 
   
  Are you sure you got the resistor value right? If you have the wrong resistor it can make the sound like you descriebe. But - I am no technician. You will get better advice by someone else soon
   
  Hope you get this sorted out!


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Auch! I am sorry to hear about this!
> 
> I am sure you will hear from Leben - they have always responded to me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks ardilla

 i am pretty sure  the values I see in the amp is right. The color sequence on the resistor is '*Brown - Black - Brown - Brown*' which translates to 100ohms. I checked the values on this site http://samstechlib.com/24614782/en/read/4_Band_Resistor_Color_Codes
   
  I have attached another photo i took a year ago. You can see the same resistor is 100 ohm

   
   
  However, the confusion is that the schematics I found on this thread don't have any 100ohm resistors.
   

  Given this...I wonder if all Leben's are built exactly the same!
   
  Is it possible that some Leben amps are subtly different based on whatever parts were available at the time of build *OR* Am i just referring to the wrong schematics?
   
  Hope I hear from Leben soon.


----------



## dminches

I thought the Lebens were built with 2 different resistors levels and that's why people had different experience with the headphone performance.  Search back in this thread for a discussion on this.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 100 ohm resistor was added to the screen grid as grid stoppers
  if this resistor burned I would get rid of the tube that was in that socket.
  And the 1000 ohm resistor in the power supply is burned up. Get a ohm
  meter and check it. I think it is on top of the chassis to reduce heat under the chassis.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 100 ohm resistor was added to the screen grid as grid stoppers
> if this resistor burned I would get rid of the tube that was in that socket.
> And the 1000 ohm resistor in the power supply is burned up. Get a ohm
> meter and check it. I think it is on top of the chassis to reduce heat under the chassis.


 
   
  Thanks 2359glenn
   
  There is a 1K resistor on the top of the chassis. Visually it looks fine. I will check with an ohm meter tomorrow and report back.
   
  They look like the ceremic cement power resistors. Does anyone know what brand?


----------



## Clayton SF

Boy, that's scary. I wonder what would cause those resistors to burn up. If it is also the 1KΩ resistor.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Boy, that's scary. *I wonder what would cause those resistors to burn up*. If it is also the 1KΩ resistor.


 
   
  I am unsure what could cause such failure.
   
  From the outside it seemed like the tubes got damaged and set off a chain reaction...but it could just as well be the other way round.
   
  Historically the right channel tubes have worn out more often on my amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Thanks 2359glenn
> 
> There is a 1K resistor on the top of the chassis. Visually it looks fine. I will check with an ohm meter tomorrow and report back.
> 
> They look like the ceramic cement power resistors. Does anyone know what brand?


 
  The one on the capacitor underneath is just a cheep Chinese resistor
  No audio goes through these resistors it is just important that you get the
  same wattage.
   
  And it was a bad tube that caused this !!


----------



## Skylab

It's one good reason to own even a basic tube tester. You can't do "matching" with a basic emissions tester, but you can sure test for leaks or shorts! Better to do that in a tester than in an amp....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's one good reason to own even a basic tube tester. You can't do "matching" with a basic emissions tester, but you can sure test for leaks or shorts! Better to do that in a tester than in an amp....


 

 I am wondering, though: would a tube tester have been able to pick out that bad tube before it went south? It sounds like that tube had been running perfectly for some time in his amp before it went kablooie.


----------



## 2359glenn

Another problem with tube testers is they don't test the tubes
  at the same voltages they will be run at in the amp.
  But they will indicate if a new tube has a outright short before
  you put it in your amp.


----------



## Skylab

Right - the tester might not have caught it...but look at it the other way...if you only want a tester to check for leaks and shorts, you can buy a decent vintage emissions tester on eBay for $100 or less. Cheaper than many of the tubes we all use. As long as you aren't asking the tester to give you precise mutual transconductance numbers, you don't need a big expensive tester.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> I am unsure what could cause such failure.
> 
> From the outside it seemed like the tubes got damaged and set off a chain reaction...but it could just as well be the other way round.
> 
> *Historically the right channel tubes have worn out more often on my amp.*


 
   
  The right channel is closer to the main trafo. My Leben hums more on the right side, and Leben told me by email that this was the reason - which also makes sense if you look inside. 
   
  It also makes sens that a bad tube caused this. A good reason to stay at home whenever you choose to let your tube amp be turned on.


----------



## Clayton SF

I currently own a Leben CS600 and I used to own the CS300XS. Never picked up any hum on either channel. It sounds like Leben's QC is inconsistent.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I currently own a Leben CS600 and I used to own the CS300XS. Never picked up any hum on either channel. It sounds like Leben's QC is inconsistent.


 
   
  Nah. It's a mains issue. Variations like this is known across producers. I have crappy mains I guess. 
   
  And it is especially so with products designed in countries with different mains voltage, like using american or Japanese stuff in Europe (where I am). They do not have access to real 230 mains in US or Japan, they use step up transformers. So that's why they don't necessarily pick up the real world mains issues in 230V-land.


----------



## Clayton SF

ardilla said:


> Nah. It's a mains issue. Variations like this is known across producers. I have crappy mains I guess.
> 
> And it is especially so with products designed in countries with different mains voltage, like using american or Japanese stuff in Europe (where I am). They do not have access to real 230 mains in US or Japan, they use step up transformers. So that's why they don't necessarily pick up the real world mains issues in 230V-land.




I've heard that it is especially bad in Australia.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The one on the capacitor underneath is just a cheep Chinese resistor
> No audio goes through these resistors it is just important that you get the
> same wattage.
> 
> And it was a bad tube that caused this !!


 
   
  Thanks mate.
   
  This morning I removed the metal cover that hides these resistors...and i can now tell that the 1K (5 watt) resistor is indeed burnt.
   
  Attached pictures the middle resistor.
   

   
  Cropped

   
  I will try and replace this resistor today.
   
  Anything else I should look into?
   
  I am very thankful to all the help I am getting here.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> This morning I removed the metal cover that hides these resistors...and i can now tell that the 1K (5 watt) resistor is indeed burnt.
> 
> ...


 
  After you do this repair
*Do not reuse these tubes put in a new set of El34s*


----------



## Wolfbane

I'd buy a tube tester. Nothing fancy or expensive is required. Jackson 648 and Eico 667 are two good testers for the money.
   
  Wb


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's one good reason to own even a basic tube tester. You can't do "matching" with a basic emissions tester, but you can sure test for leaks or shorts! Better to do that in a tester than in an amp....


 

 Thanks Skylab
   
  I do have an emission tester which can test for shorts etc. I have been using these tubes for almost 6 months now and they tested fine when I first installed them. Also, in the past I could tell when the tube is getting to end of life; the music just starts to become...shall we say less musical!
   
  But this this time the damage was sudden and catastrophic. Within 10 seconds the barbecue was well and truly on.
   
  I am just glad that I was at home (and in close proximity to the amp) when this happened.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> The right channel is closer to the main trafo. My Leben hums more on the right side, and Leben told me by email that this was the reason - which also makes sense if you look inside.
> 
> It also makes sens that a bad tube caused this. A good reason to stay at home whenever you choose to let your tube amp be turned on.


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I currently own a Leben CS600 and I used to own the CS300XS. Never picked up any hum on either channel. It sounds like Leben's QC is inconsistent.


 
   
  I have always had small amounts of hum on the Leben which seems to disappear when i take the volume past 10 o clock. In addition, I have also observed the following:

 the amount of hum varies with the driver tubes i use (12ax7 / 5751 or 7729)
 the hum is more prominent with my speakers and high impedance headphones (HD600) and practically non-existent on low impedance headphones (fostex T50RP or Yamaha HP-1)


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've heard that it is especially bad in Australia.


 
   
  Hmmm...wasn't aware of that.
   
  Maybe I should invest in a line conditioner. Thoughts?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Hmmm...wasn't aware of that.
> 
> Maybe I should invest in a line conditioner. Thoughts?


 
  Don't waist your money!!!!!  .
  The output transformer that is closer to the power transformer is picking up the 60Hz
  magnetic field from the power transformer.
  Even if you use a power conditioner the power transformer is still going to radiate 60Hz
  and the output transformer will pick it up.


----------



## Skylab

bugleboy said:


> Thanks Skylab
> 
> I do have an emission tester which can test for shorts etc. I have been using these tubes for almost 6 months now and they tested fine when I first installed them. Also, in the past I could tell when the tube is getting to end of life; the music just starts to become...shall we say less musical!
> 
> ...




Yeah, sometimes tubes just "go". I've had a tube arc and destroy a pair of DT990's. Its been rare in my extensive use of tubes, but it does happen. Sorry you had a case!


----------



## BugleBoy

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
   
  After I replaced the 1K resistor the Leben is back to normal...singing beautifully. Also, an unintended, but pleasant, outcome of this repair work is that the HUM is gone....completely! i have never had my amp this quiet before...ever.
   
  Big thanks to everyone for your inputs.
   
  A special thanks must go to 2359glenn for highlighting the problem with such precision.
   
  I have attached couple of pics of the fix.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, sometimes tubes just "go". I've had a tube arc and destroy a pair of DT990's. Its been rare in my extensive use of tubes, but it does happen. Sorry you had a case!


 
   
  I have had the tubes pop suddenly before on other stuff...but never taking the equipment down with it.
   
  I still wonder if the tube was the main culprit after all. Is it possible that the resistor got burnt and led to both right channel tubes failing in this manner? Just a theory 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....


----------



## 2359glenn

The tube that was in that socket caused the resistors to burn that killed the voltage to
  the screen grids in the EL34s and killed the power to the driver tubes.
  your hum could have been from this tube drawing to much screen current or
  this tube was oscillating


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The tube that was in that socket caused the resistors to burn that killed the voltage to
> the screen grids in the EL34s and killed the power to the driver tubes.
> your hum could have been from this tube drawing to much screen current or
> this tube was oscillating


 
   
   
  But the same set of tubes that used to hum before is not humming anymore. How can that be? I have swapped 3 set of tubes just to check...and they are all dead quite now. I have never known Leben to be this quite.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't know I really don't explanation on what happened to the hum
  or these resistors were damaged in the past with a different set of tubes.
  Anyway it is a good thing.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't know I really don't explanation on what happened to the hum
> or these resistors were damaged in the past with a different set of tubes.
> Anyway it is a good thing.


 
   
  Yeah...it is a great outcome.  Thanks for you help.


----------



## Skylab

That's a great outcome indeed! Congrats


----------



## Clayton SF

I have come to believe that the next set of skills that I must acquire are the skills of soldering and desoldering. Following "Leben and The Case of the Burnt Resistors" has certainly piqued my interest in learning basic soldering skills.


----------



## dminches

We just need Glenn to put together a short video.


----------



## 2359glenn

And what video would that be
  Basic soldering
  or
  Amplifier repair 101


----------



## dminches

Both!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Both!


 

 Sign me up. I would like to attend the live sessions. I'll take both of your classes for sure. Will you serve cookies during class breaks?


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> But the same set of tubes that used to hum before is not humming anymore. How can that be? I have swapped 3 set of tubes just to check...and they are all dead quite now. I have never known Leben to be this quite.


 
   
  Do I understand you correctly that you have tried several sets of tubes that you previously have used while the Leben had tis hum - and that using the exact same tubes now doesn't give  hum?
   
  This impliesthat the tubes weren't the origin of the hum. 
   
  So the only thing that you have changed is that resistor? Are you using the same AC power etc. - same location - all conditions identical except the resistor change?
   
  May that resistor change be responsible for the hum-level-reduction?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I guess that cheap resistor is the weakest link. It is hard to imagine that not every component that is used to build a Leben is of good or excellent quality considering the premium they charge. If I could flip over my extremely heavy CS600 to photograph I would and send it to Glenn for his assessment on the components. My CS600 doesn't hum but I was just curious.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I guess that cheap resistor is the weakest link. It is hard to imagine that not every component that is used to build a Leben is of good or excellent quality considering the premium they charge. If I could flip over my extremely heavy CS600 to photograph I would and send it to Glenn for his assessment on the components. My CS600 doesn't hum but I was just curious.


 
   
  So - if I swap that resitor in my Leben - it might reduce the hum? Does that make any sense?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> So - if I swap that resitor in my Leben - it might reduce the hum? Does that make any sense?


 
  I couldn't say. That is to say if the resistor is the same cheap one. Leben has been inconsistent in the parts it uses. Maybe yours has a better resistor. Who knows. I'd consult Glenn with photos.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't think that resistor by itself caused the hum.
  It could have been done earlier with a bad tube and damaged the resistor changing it's resistance.
  I don't know how hot this resistor gets maybe it should be a higher wattage so it don't cook itself to death.
  What would be good is if some other people took pictures of this resistor and  I could see if they are cooking.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Do I understand you correctly that you have tried several sets of tubes that you previously have used while the Leben had tis hum - and that using the exact same tubes now doesn't give  hum?
> 
> This impliesthat the tubes weren't the origin of the hum.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That is right...the same set of tubes that were humming before are dead quite now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> That is right...the same set of tubes that were humming before are dead quite now.


 
   
  That is quite a revelation. And very good to know.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> That is right...the same set of tubes that were humming before are dead quite now.


 
   
  And what specific resistor did you get? Do you have a link? It seems like a magic piece


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I guess that cheap resistor is the weakest link. It is hard to imagine that not every component that is used to build a Leben is of good or excellent quality considering the premium they charge. If I could flip over my extremely heavy CS600 to photograph I would and send it to Glenn for his assessment on the components. My CS600 doesn't hum but I was just curious.


 
   
  Just FYI...the 1K resistor replaced cost me just 40 cents. These are wire-wound resistors.
   
  Is it possible that wire-wound resistors can change their resistance over time...through use / misuse / abuse etc?


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> And what specific resistor did you get? Do you have a link? It seems like a magic piece


 
   
  I got the resistor from Jaycar electronics. It cost me 40 cents a piece. they are just the generic types...nothing special.
   
  the link is here: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=RR3298


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> I got the resistor from Jaycar electronics. It cost me 40 cents a piece. they are just the generic types...nothing special.
> 
> the link is here: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=RR3298


 

 It _*is*_ a special resistor. Could you imagine what the cost would have been had you shipped it back to your distributor for > repairs > wait > wait > wait > $$$ > shipping charges back to you. You saved a bundle for just spending 40 cents and the soldering/electronics know-how. Excellent teamwork on yours and Glenn's part. Teamwork!


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't think that resistor by itself caused the hum.
> It could have been done earlier with a bad tube and damaged the resistor changing it's resistance.
> I don't know how hot this resistor gets maybe it should be a higher wattage so it don't cook itself to death.
> What would be good is if some other people took pictures of this resistor and  I could see if they are cooking.


 
   
  Yeah that will be great if others can post some close-up pics of this resistor on their CS-300.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It _*is*_ a special resistor. Could you imagine what the cost would have been had you shipped it back to your distributor for > repairs > wait > wait > wait > $$$ > shipping charges back to you. You saved a bundle for just spending 40 cents and the soldering/electronics know-how. Excellent teamwork on yours and Glenn's part. Teamwork!


 
   
  Indeed...when you put it that way. Also, Glenn's solution was very timely. On Friday I had already had a chat with Rage Audio here in Sydney...and was planning on taking the amp to them for repairs on Saturday. But Glenn's post on Friday evening made me pause...and consider trying to fix it myself.
   
  i am just glad it worked out the way it did!...Fixed the Amp, got rid of the HUM and saved all the $$$ in repair costs. Couldn't have asked for more...


----------



## 2359glenn

I circled the capacitors that can be causing the hum


----------



## ardilla

Why do you think those capacitors are responsible for humming - and what how would changing them help?
   
  And what kind of capacitors might be better?
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I circled the capacitors that can be causing the hum


----------



## 2359glenn

Those are the capacitors that filter the pulsating DC from the rectifiers to pure DC.
  I do not recommend a specific brand but those are cheap generic capacitors just change them with
  the same value and voltage and make sure polarity is right or they go boom.
  The one on the far left can be increased to 220uf @ 350 volts that would give more filtering.
  For the screen grids and driver
  If you increase the values of the other caps the filtering would be better but the DC voltage
  would increase. Not sure the tubes would like that.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Those are the capacitors that filter the pulsating DC from the rectifiers to pure DC.
> I do not recommend a specific brand but those are *cheap generic capacitors* just change them with
> the same value and voltage and make sure polarity is right or they go boom.
> The one on the far left can be increased to 220uf @ 350 volts that would give more filtering.
> ...


 
   
  Aren't the ELNA's (as seen in the Pic) better capacitors compared to most others? Without really recommending a brand...are you able to advise what we should be looking for when replacing these capacitors (maybe different type, construction etc)?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Aren't the ELNA's (as seen in the Pic) better capacitors compared to most others? Without really recommending a brand...are you able to advise what we should be looking for when replacing these capacitors (maybe different type, construction etc)?


 
  Those are really run of the mill capacitors nothing wrong with them really
  The problem better capacitors usually require more room they are bigger.
  The best capacitors are probably motor run capacitors they are oil filled
  But would have to be mounted on top of the chassis they would never fit
  were those Elna caps are


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Those are really run of the mill capacitors nothing wrong with them really
> The problem better capacitors usually require more room they are bigger.
> The best capacitors are probably motor run capacitors they are oil filled
> But would have to be mounted on top of the chassis they would never fit
> were those Elna caps are


 

 OK got it...Thanks


----------



## ardilla

*Capacitor swapping on the Leben CS300XS mod*
   
  Quote: http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1245#post_8662788 





> I have modified my Leben CS300. It happened after the amp was damaged in a tube-rolling accident and an resistor blew up. This can seem dramatic but in this case the damage was benign and easy to repair. I brought the amp to a very experienced tube technician and also accepted his recommendation to change the coupling capacitors, with a restore guarantee without cost.
> 
> At the same time, I showed him some upgrades from the Polish magazine and the upgrade capacitors in the CS300XS (compared to CS300). There are a few capacitors that are different and he said that the capacitors in the XS are better but that the importance for sound quality was marginal or maybe not audible. This is very much in accordance with Skylab's impressions from listening. He said that the component in the amp are not expensive but of good quality and build quality is very good.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Quote: http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1245#post_8661263 





> Here's a Leben CS300X that was modified with V-Caps, etc.
> 
> Leben CS300X [Custom Version]
> 
> ...


----------



## ardilla

*Tube rolling damage to Leben CS300XS cpacitors*
   
   
  Quote: http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1260#post_8669260 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

I was just saying to replace the existing capacitors with new ones.
  Not doing a mod to different capacitors.
  The coupling capacitors are different capacitors then the ones I said to change
  are filter capacitors in the power supply.


----------



## Clayton SF

I still own my Leben CS600 but it is in storage right now because I am now listening to the 300B mono blocks that Glenn built. But I have never rolled tubes in my Leben. It still has its stock tubes. I'm afraid to roll tubes in a $6K amp.


----------



## MorbidToaster

clayton sf said:


> I still own my Leben CS600 but it is in storage right now because I am now listening to the 300B mono blocks that Glenn built. But I have never rolled tubes in my Leben. It still has its stock tubes. I'm afraid to roll tubes in a $6K amp.




If it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I still own my Leben CS600 but it is in storage right now because I am now listening to the 300B mono blocks that Glenn built. But I have never rolled tubes in my Leben. It still has its stock tubes. *I'm afraid to roll tubes* in a $6K amp.


 
   
  Tube rolling can be a rewarding experience....on some amps.
   
  Don't know about CS600; but the CS300 can really shine with some good NOS tubes...it seems like a no brainer IMHO.


----------



## BugleBoy

Hey Glenn...how can I find out about your amps. Do you have as website?
   
  Pardon my ignorance if it is common knowledge on Head-fi.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't have a website your best bet is to ask someone like Clayton sf about the SQ.
  Do have a backlog of amps to build and wouldn't be able to build one to the end of the summer here soonest.
  Right now I am building a 300B inter grated using a C3g drivers this is what Clayton has except he has mono blocks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Tube rolling can be a rewarding experience....on some amps.
> Don't know about CS600; but the CS300 can really shine with some good NOS tubes...it seems like a no brainer IMHO.


 
   
  I do know the joys of tube rolling. I've done that on my Woo Audio headphone amps. However, the CS600 uses 6L6GC and EL34 tubes, 6CS7, and 6CJ3. I don't want to start to roll those types of tubes because they all seem either obscure (6CS7 and 6CJ3) or rare and expensive (6L6GC and EL34). I have a quad of Mullard EL34 tubes but I am going to use them when the stock ones die. A future investment.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Hey Glenn...how can I find out about your amps. Do you have as website?
> Pardon my ignorance if it is common knowledge on Head-fi.


 
   
  Here's the thread on Glenn's Amp.
  Here are some photos of my current speaker setup. Glenn's 300B Mono Blocks.
  Here are some other amps I own shown on my Flickr page.


----------



## Anders

As some of my previous posts were copied by ardilla, just a comment about the hum that disappeared after a resistor change. That is very hard to understand if the resistor was not already damaged by previous tube problems or something else. I don't say that that this apply in this case, but I have read post by users who roll tubes wildly, more by trial-and-error than checking if the tube is of appropriate type. Or can it be that a tube eventually has become defective and caused damage to the amplifier? That could explain the very divergent experiences of humming. Or is there a big variation in the tolerance for humming? If you compare with a SS amp and listen without music it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Leben has a slight hum. It is an old type of tube design. Is the humming a problem? I don't think so but I can only answer for me.
   
  A tube can go bad anytime, but now I have a tube tester and this helps a lot in sorting out bad tubes. Tubes are seldom bad if you buy from reputable sources but this takes some time to learn and a tube tester gives additional security.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Here's the thread on Glenn's Amp.
> Here are some photos of my current speaker setup. Glenn's 300B Mono Blocks.
> Here are some other amps I own shown on my Flickr page.


 
   
  Hey Clayton...thx for sharing all this info. Nice set-up you've got there. Looks great...and I'm sure sounds great too


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





anders said:


> As some of my previous posts were copied by ardilla, just a comment about the hum that disappeared after a resistor change. That is very hard to understand if the resistor was not already damaged by previous tube problems or something else. I don't say that that this apply in this case, but I have read post by users who roll tubes wildly, more by trial-and-error than checking if the tube is of appropriate type. Or can it be that a tube eventually has become defective and caused damage to the amplifier? That could explain the very divergent experiences of humming. Or is there a big variation in the tolerance for humming? If you compare with a SS amp and listen without music it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Leben has a slight hum. It is an old type of tube design. Is the humming a problem? I don't think so but I can only answer for me.
> 
> A tube can go bad anytime, but now I have a tube tester and this helps a lot in sorting out bad tubes. Tubes are seldom bad if you buy from reputable sources but this takes some time to learn and a tube tester gives additional security.


 

 I agree that resistor may have been damaged in the past...and I had come to accept the hum as normal. But since i have replaced it I cannot hear any hum...even if I stick my ear to the speakers!
   
  The conclusion I draw from this is the the 1K resistor can be damaged just enough to cause undesirable effects...and replacing it seems to cure the problem.
   
  It'd be great if other CS-300 owners can post pics of this resistor in their amp...and better still check the resistance with a multimeter.


----------



## Anders

BugleBoy, congratulations that your problem is solved. It is useful to know that hum problems can depend on a damaged resistor and can be a good idea to check for those who have disturbing hum. My resistors and other components had no visible damage when I looked last time, and I have no disturbing hum.
   
  I don't think that the speaker test is exact and reliable as sensitivity vary much between speakers. Many users have reported hum problem with some headphones and no problem with others. Leben has changed the impedance of the headphone output, as I understand to reduce the problem with sensitive headphones. A problem it that there is great variation in headphone sensitivity and some seem to have got a problem with the low power headphone output and insensitive headphones. But overall the change was probably good as headphones have become increasingly sensitive.
   
  CS300 is an old style speaker amplifier with an output power that is low for speakers and very high for headphones. It is not inherently noise free but should not normally hum with speakers. I quote the  Stereophile measurment: "The unweighted, wideband S/N ratio, taken with the input shorted and the volume at its maximum, was good rather than great, at 71dB ref.2.83V from both channels with all three output taps." It is not surprising that Leben not always work over all possible headphone and speaker sensitivities. The main problem with speakers should be that many are too hard to drive for a 12/15 W amplifier.


----------



## zoroastra

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> I agree that resistor may have been damaged in the past...and I had come to accept the hum as normal. But since i have replaced it I cannot hear any hum...even if I stick my ear to the speakers!
> 
> The conclusion I draw from this is the the 1K resistor can be damaged just enough to cause undesirable effects...and replacing it seems to cure the problem.
> 
> It'd be great if other CS-300 owners can post pics of this resistor in their amp...and better still check the resistance with a multimeter.


 

 Or it was a cold solder joint, increased resistance caused a lot of heat which burned out the resistor.


----------



## arturo71

Hello. I wanted to report my experience about hum.
   
  My CS300XS is a 230V unit bought in Europe and used in Europe. It hums from day 1 with my HD600 but not audible with LCD2. Hum with HD600 is not annoying nor discernible once the music starts to play. Rolling tubes did not have any effect.
   
  Some months ago I bought some HD800 and the hum was horrendous and I couldn't use them with the Leben.
   
  Then, some weeks ago I bought some tube damper rings. Normal silicone rings, I paid less than 10USD for a bag of 10 in eBay. I bought them to control the bass because it was a bit too loose with the LCD2 for my taste. I discovered that as a side effect the tube dampers eliminated almost completely the hum with HD800, there is still some hum on the left side but nothing disturbing. I am discovering this combination HD800+Leben which works quite well actually.
   
  Did anybody else have similar experiences reducing hum with tube dampers?
   
  Thanks.
   
  Arturo


----------



## MorbidToaster

arturo71 said:


> Hello. I wanted to report my experience about hum.
> 
> My CS300XS is a 230V unit bought in Europe and used in Europe. It hums from day 1 with my HD600 but not audible with LCD2. Hum with HD600 is not annoying nor discernible once the music starts to play. Rolling tubes did not have any effect.
> 
> ...




No experience with actual improvements, but i do have 2 dampers per tube on my power tubes right now. Found a bag I had of them while moving and figured why not.


----------



## MorbidToaster

arturo71 said:


> Hello. I wanted to report my experience about hum.
> 
> My CS300XS is a 230V unit bought in Europe and used in Europe. It hums from day 1 with my HD600 but not audible with LCD2. Hum with HD600 is not annoying nor discernible once the music starts to play. Rolling tubes did not have any effect.
> 
> ...




No experience with actual improvements, but i do have 2 dampers per tube on my power tubes right now. Found a bag I had of them while moving and figured why not.


----------



## Anders

I have positive experience of tube dampers but never have had that much hum. They usually have most effect on the input tubes. Herbie's Audiolab makes good tube dampers for most sizes of tubes. Sometimes the effect is negligible or even to the worse, as decreased airiness.


----------



## ardilla

arturo71 said:


> Hello. I wanted to report my experience about hum.
> 
> My CS300XS is a 230V unit bought in Europe and used in Europe. It hums from day 1 with my HD600 but not audible with LCD2. Hum with HD600 is not annoying nor discernible once the music starts to play. Rolling tubes did not have any effect.
> 
> ...




Extremely interesting!

Do you have a link to those tube dampeners?


----------



## ardilla

anders said:


> I have positive experience of tube dampers but never have had that much hum. They usually have most effect on the input tubes. Herbie's Audiolab makes good tube dampers for most sizes of tubes. Sometimes the effect is negligible or even to the worse, as decreased airiness.




What type of tube dampenereners did make it worse, under which condition?


----------



## arturo71

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Extremely interesting!
> 
> Do you have a link to those tube dampeners?


 
  This is what I bought, from this seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-Damper-for-12AX7-12AU7-12AT7-12BH7-EL84-6922-10PC-/260759770623?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb67e55ff
   
  I guess at this price it doesn't cost much trying.
   
  Arturo


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> What type of tube dampenereners did make it worse, under which condition?


 
  The same tube dampers that worked in many other cases. People sometimes talk about about overdamping, I don't know if there is a strict definition of the concept or if it just means that the tubedamping doesn't give the desired result. Probably, different persons also have different opinions if the damping gives the desired result in a specific case. You have to try and it is simple to do it.


----------



## Raaf

While using Google I stumbeled across this Leben CS300 thread and I decided to join and share my findings and opinion .
  What made me decide to buy a CS300 was the following :
  I  used to listen to music on the headphone on a vintage JVC reciever connected to the PC but wasnt really satisfied .
  So I decieded I would try a tube headphone amp.
 I went to the local HiFi store and asked for such a thing, they were all sold out at that moment so I asked for any tube amp he had ?
  He had a 2nd hand chrome plate thing with tubes arranged  on it but with fortunally no headphone socket 
  He allso had a new tube amp a Leben on stock.....Oh looks good I replied, but what does it cost ?
  He mumbeled someting like 2500 Euros and I replied : Whaaat ?
  He replied , why don't you take this thing home for the weekend and listen to it ?
  That was a offer I couldn't refuse so I took the CS300 home, and as you can guess its still here with me from that day .
  I was really impressed , details, so much details and the music just kept on flowing out of that little gold-green-wooden amplifier.
   
  My set up has dramatically improved since the arrival of the Leben , and even the Leben itself .
  After a a ESI Juli@ soundcard (I listen from a PC ) a separate Dac came and when I removed the opamps and replaced them for a srpp Telefunken 6211 stage that really got things going.
  (talking about a microphonic tube  but hard to find a better sounding ECC83 replacement.)
  The CS 300 itself has now 2 nos Adzam ECC83's and 4 nos Soviet 6P14P EB output tubes and i'm fiddling with capacitors.
  And last but not least, apart from beeing a great Headphone amp, the Leben's CS300 12 Watts do a trully stunning job with my 105Db Oberton 15NCX drivers !
  But I ocasionally still plug in the Sennheiser 280pro .


----------



## Funklezen

Hi all, 

I have a leben cs300xs coming next week with the sovtek tubes. I am complete new to tubes and have been reading through all the post, and I will prolly try som mullards or the setup skylab suggested. But how many of each tubes do I need. Is it 2 * 3 or 4 of one kind and 2 of another kind  

New to tubes but so looking forward to it


----------



## dminches

You need 4 EL84s and 2 5751s (or 12ax7a or other variations).


----------



## levlhed

You can also put 12AT7 and 12AU7 in the front end. Confirmed by Leben.


----------



## Funklezen

Thanks Guys


----------



## bigdish

Quote: 





levlhed said:


> You can also put 12AT7 and 12AU7 in the front end. Confirmed by Leben.


 
  Meaning I can replace the 12AX7 with 12AU7 or 12AT7 without any change of setting?   
      
  Coud you kindy share what are the differences with replcing the 12AX7 with 12AU7 or 12AT7?


----------



## levlhed

Yes.
  12AT7 has less gain and 12AU7 has even less.


----------



## bigdish

Quote: 





levlhed said:


> Yes.
> 12AT7 has less gain and 12AU7 has even less.


 
  Thanks for your reply. Have you tried replacing them? Other than less gain, do you notice any differences in sound?


----------



## Funklezen

Hi Guys,
   
  I just got my leben cs300xs today, but there is a problem with the headphone out.
   
  When I started it up, it sounded like there was something loose in the headphone out. There were noise when I touched the headphone cable, then after a little while most of the sound disappeared and there is now only a low volume and kindda distorted sound.
   
  Does any know what could have happened?
   
  Thanks


----------



## DefQon

I found the sound rather bloated using the EL84 Mullards and they are not anywhere near the cream of the crop of the EL84/6BQ5 line. Get some Amperex or Valvo's in that Leben if you're sticking to the quad 6BQ5 configuration.


----------



## Raaf

funklezen said:


> When I started it up, it sounded like there was something loose in the headphone out. There were noise when I touched the headphone cable, then after a little while most of the sound disappeared and there is now only a low volume and kindda distorted sound.



 
 Was your headphone ok ? Does the normal speaker output sounds fine ?


----------



## Funklezen

Hi,
   
  My headphones are okay, I don't have any speakers, so I cant comment on the normal speaker outputs.


----------



## Funklezen

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I found the sound rather bloated using the EL84 Mullards and they are not anywhere near the cream of the crop of the EL84/6BQ5 line. Get some Amperex or Valvo's in that Leben if you're sticking to the quad 6BQ5 configuration.


 
  I don't think its because of me not liking the EL mullard sound, however I will look into tube rolling later on 
   
  Its more that the sound disappeared, like how it could sound if the headphones wasnt plugged in all the way, or something like that. hmmm


----------



## dminches

Sounds like a short of some sort.  Have you tried a different set of headphones?


----------



## Funklezen

I tried with some other phones as well,
   
  I just tried to push the input jack a little to the side while it was playing and most of the sound returned, if I let go the volume goes down and the sound sounds distant. So maybe the input jack is loose.


----------



## dminches

You should take the cover off and see if the wires soldered to the headphone jack seem loose.


----------



## Funklezen

Thanks, I dont have any tools that fit the screws on top of it, so I have to take it to the repair shop tomorrow, so much for a good start with the leben 
   
  After I pressed the jack gentle to the side and let go, It actually played for like 15 min and the volume then went down again and the sound turned distant.
   
  The 15 min sounded real good, but ehm, thats just such a tease from the leben...


----------



## RedBull

I have similar problem before where the sound on and off 'distant'. It end up the rca connection at the back is not very tight. This maybe not relevant for you, but worth checking before you send for repair.


----------



## DefQon

Loose metal contacts in the hp jack itself?


----------



## Funklezen

Thanks, Ill Check a different rca. The seller now says its my fault for using the amp without speaker attached because that destroys the amp, is that right. I only had it switched to headphone. 

I do think that a lot of you Guys use it as an amp to your headphones only?


----------



## Raaf

Tube amps don't like it when they see no load, speakers or headphones, it can destroy your output tubes. Always make sure that a headphone is connected when the selector is set to "phones" and with no speakers connected never switch to "speakers" Your problem seems to be bad contacts in the phone socket, have it repaired before you use the amp again.


----------



## Funklezen

Thanks, Ill go to the repair shop today, and Yea I also thought that if the switch is set to phones then there is no need to connect speakers, as the current is then directed to the Phone, Thanks


----------



## zoroastra

Because the sound changed when the RCA plug was manipulated then surely the fault lies there, a cold solder joint my best bet.
It isn't difficult to re-solder same, if not experienced with such then the repair shop best, but if you heat the metal till hot enough to melt the solder, without actually touching the solder with the soldering gun, then the resulting soldered joint should be good.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





raaf said:


> Tube amps don't like it when they see no load, speakers or headphones, it can destroy your output tubes. Always make sure that a headphone is connected when the selector is set to "phones" and with no speakers connected never switch to "speakers" Your problem seems to be bad contacts in the phone socket, have it repaired before you use the amp again.


 
  Not necessarily output tubes, but since there is no load connected the trafo's get a buildup and thus can get damaged due to nothing connected.


----------



## Skylab

If he amp is switched to Headphones and headphones are connected, there is no need to connect speakers, at all.


----------



## Funklezen

Thanks, I only had it switched to headphones.
   
  I took it to the repair shop earlier today and I should have an answer Friday at the latest, hope its not something serious...
   
  Ill let you know how it turns out.
   
  So far I can only comment on the look, and the Leben cs300xs is really a beauty.


----------



## RedBull

'Singer's hi-fi setup.  She's using Leben. 
   
  Can you guess who is she?


----------



## Skylab

That would be the lovely and talented Norah Jones. Good taste in hi-if too apparently


----------



## LarsHP

I have a CS300 on the way. Anyone who knows what the output impedance of the headphone output is on these amps?


----------



## RedBull

Yes, correct! 
She's my favorite singer.


----------



## MorbidToaster

redbull said:


> Yes, correct!
> She's my favorite singer.




IIRC she owns HL5s, too. Good picks all around.


----------



## Anders

Nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Do you have any source/link to the pics?
   
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> 'Singer's hi-fi setup.  She's using Leben.
> 
> Can you guess who is she?


----------



## LarsHP

Google picture search:
  http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=143644.0


----------



## LarsHP

My CS300 landed this afternoon (not the XS model).
   
  The headphone output was tested shortly with my LCD-2 and HE-6. On the first few tracks - and at moderate levels - it sounded fine with my HE-6, but then I put on the Prelude from Carmen by Bizet and turned up a little, not much. That was it: Distortion as clear as daylight. This amp is NOT driving the HE-6 to anything beyond quiet to moderate levels. That was frankly surprising to me, because even the Balanced amp card in my HM-801 drives it cleanly and distortion-free to at least the same level if not higher levels.
   
  Then I plugged in the Audeze. CS300 has just enough power, maybe not quite - time will tell, to drive the LCD-2. This headphone needs 22.6 times less power than the HE-6 (according to Inner Fidelity measurements). At the same time it isn't dead silent when no music plays. Hmmm. This was not what I had hoped for.
   
  The idea was to get the HD800 for it, but if there is hiss from a headphone with a sensitivity of 91dB, then what do I expect from a 102dB 'phone? Of course the Sennheiser is 350 Ohm and the Audeze is about 50 Ohm, but still... Anyone with an informed opinion?
   
  Edit: typo's


----------



## Anders

HD800 works fine. Leben is not dead silent when no music is playing, at least with most headphones. I don't understand why that is so important, I never listen to it without music.
  It is known that the headphone out is not powerful enough for HE-6 (I have never tried but documented earlier in this thread).
   
  Thanks for the link. The pictures are grabbed from a video. Here is a link to the video with Norah Jones playing vinyl and Leben. Interesting video although with some dumb questions in the interview, typical television style.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50134057n


----------



## victorcc

anders said:


> HD800 works fine. Leben is not dead silent when no music is playing, at least with most headphones. I don't understand why that is so important, I never listen to it without music.




It is important because the music hides the noise that is permanently there and obviously the noise affects the SQ one way or another even if you do not hear it.

Thanks for the link to the video!


----------



## Anders

Yes, that is obvious but it is total sound quality when playing music that counts. Those quiet listening sessions seem mostly to make people nervous, especially those that are not used to the noise level of tubes and vinyl and using SS and digital as reference. Leben is either not the most quiet tube amplifier in the world! It has other strengths - for those who like its way of communicating the music.


----------



## LarsHP

I must say that I already have FELT the Leben. What I mean is, when listening to music through it, it conveys an emotional quality that the Soloist simply doesn't. The treble and upper mids has this sweetness which I think is what makes this amp convey the emotion of the music, and I could also imagine that this would pair well with the more clinical HD800 (sorry if I offend any HD800 lovers, it's just the impression I got when listening to it via a SS amp).
   
  I perceive an audible noise floor as less resolution and clarity - like an added veil, but this of course is only when listening to a solo instrument or quiet passages in the music.


----------



## RedBull

larshp said:


> Google picture search:
> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=143644.0




Smart 



anders said:


> Thanks for the link. The pictures are grabbed from a video. Here is a link to the video with Norah Jones playing vinyl and Leben. Interesting video although with some dumb questions in the interview, typical television style.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50134057n




Thanks for the video. I didn't have that.


----------



## RedBull

larshp said:


> My CS300 landed this afternoon (not the XS model).
> 
> The headphone output was tested shortly with my LCD-2 and HE-6. On the first few tracks - and at moderate levels - it sounded fine with my HE-6, but then I put on the Prelude from Carmen by Bizet and turned up a little, not much. That was it: Distortion as clear as daylight. This amp is NOT driving the HE-6 to anything beyond quiet to moderate levels. That was frankly surprising to me, because even the Balanced amp card in my HM-801 drives it cleanly and distortion-free to at least the same level if not higher levels.
> 
> ...




I think Leben headphone out comes with 2 variants, less powerfull and more powerful one, it's a matter of changing one resistor which you can find in some page behind in this thread. 
If, you are fine with some small soldering. I am not, but I got the more powerful one.
Or maybe you can get someone to do it for you, just need to tell them how, which the picture is in the earlier page too.
But regardless, it's still won't be enough for HE-6 I believe.


----------



## RedBull

Right, precisely, Leben sound is emotional. Upper mid and treble decay is very nice.


----------



## Skylab

The Leben for sure will not drive HE-6. But it should have no problem with LCD-2 unless you like it very loud.

As for the hiss, try switching the stock input tubes with some nice 5751's.


----------



## Happy Camper

NO.......RESIST.......STAY AWAY!!!!! 

Tubes are so hard to resist if you've never heard them before on a quality piece of gear (which the Leben is). Just seeing the glow puts you in a trance. 

One suggestion is to go with something other than the AX. There are some great lower gain tubes that would sound great and cut down hiss. AXs are a bit soft and if you're used to SS gear, won't sound as defined as you are used to. I replaced the AXs with a 12AY7 (RCA Command 5 star) black plate. Loved the improved detail and extension. 

IMO


----------



## LarsHP

Thanks Skylab and Happy Camper.
   
  My father built a 20W tube amplifier which was the amp in our home for many years, but I haven't heard a tube amp since my youth - apart from a short listen many years ago in a shop. So - I'm practically starting from scratch concerning tubes and tube amps.
   
  If I change the input tubes to some with lower gain - will this affect the power output also?
   
  What is "the AX"? 12AX7?
   
  Also - to save you guys from a lot of newbee questions - where would be a good place / ressource site to read about which tubes to get etc.?


----------



## dminches

http://torresengineering.stores.yahoo.net/maprtutse.html


----------



## LarsHP

Thanks dminches!
   
  Suggestions for general info sites are also welcome.
  As well as specific types / brands / versions / models for the input stage.


----------



## Skylab

The CS-300 should still be able to develop full power output when using a 5751 input tube without problem.


----------



## RedBull

Dminches, how do you compare Leben and the taboo?


----------



## Happy Camper

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html


----------



## dminches

The taboo is a very nice amp but the Leben is more detailed. It develops a wider soundstage although the lucid mode is nice in the taboo.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks. I've been looking for this comparison for awhile. I like detail, so I guess I stay with Leben.
But you have both. What do you think that Taboo does better? More power, I guess?


----------



## mmlogic

in some specific genre or recording, Taboo 3+new Lucid mode is hard to beat.
  but under normal circumstances I will vote for CS300,
  CS300 is more airy, smoother and more lively sound, but Taboo 3 got better bass, CS300 is a little boomy compared to Taboo. 
  if $$$ is not an issue, I will keep both.


----------



## RedBull

Nice comparison mmlogic. Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I think Leben headphone out comes with 2 variants, less powerful and more powerful one, it's a matter of changing one resistor which you can find in some page behind in this thread.


 
  That is true for amp like Leben, Cary , and McIntosh (mass produced). The headphone amp section on those amps are not stand alone amp per say, they just take signal from the speaker section and go through a set of resistors and adjusted to drive headphones. Glenn (the amp maker) told me this trick a few years back. I have a repairman replaced my McIntosh MA6900's headphone section resistors with lower value, which increased the damping factor and drive. This made the amp more lively and emotionally connected. Of course, for now MA6900 drives my LCD-2 louder, and has more headroom.


----------



## RedBull

Ya, I think's that's the case, I just not really sure how it works


----------



## longbowbbs

The Cary SLI-80 sure sounds great with headphones. I am still waiting to enjoy a Leben.


----------



## LarsHP

A-ha! Now I get it: 
Change the input tubes to some with less gain will make it (more) quiet or even completely silent. Then, if I experience too little headroom / not enough power, then I change the resistors to lower value, which will provide more power and damping too. This looks promising.

I was a little afraid that I was between the chairs with this amp (using headphone output), but now I can see that with these options, I can make this work.


----------



## Raaf

The only way I could get my CS300 completly silent was to put a choke in de powersupply for the driver tubes.


----------



## LarsHP

What is a "choke in the power supply"?


----------



## Raaf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_%28electronics%29
   
  It even doesnt have to cost to much,I have used a little transformer from a old powersupply.


----------



## LarsHP

Another new-bee question:
  What is the difference in dB's between a 100x gain tube and say a 50x or a 20x gain tube?
  Is going from 100 gain to 50 gain 6dB electrically (and then 3dB in the speakers/headphones)?


----------



## LarsHP

BTW, in my CS300 (without X or XS) the following tubes are fitted (alledgedly from factory):
  Input tubes are Golden Dragon ECC83T (2 pcs)
  Output tubes are Golden Dragon EL84/6BQ5 (4 pcs)
   
  On the plate inside the amp, next to the tubes, is written:
  For input tubes: 5751 / ECC83
  For output tubes: EL84 / 6BQ5
   
  This means that the stock input tubes has a gain of 100?
   
  Edit: Sorry, it's GOLDEN Dragon of course.


----------



## Skylab

Do you mean Golden Dragon? In any case I'm sure those tubes are current production Chinese, and IMHO there are much quieter and better available tubes.


----------



## LarsHP

Thanks Skylab, but I frankly don't know what to look for, because these spec's aren't stated.
   
  However, the "T" in the end of ECC83T is for "Trustworthy", which is supposed to mean better spec's and measurments. Spec'ed to European standards or the like.
   
  I have seen a pair of "Telefunken ECC83" up for sale, but they are incredibly expensive. USD290 for a pair, sold by a private person. Are these creme de la creme or what?


----------



## Skylab

Do you have a local hi-fi store that sells current production tubes? If so, you might pick up a pair of the reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7's which are Russian / New Sensor corp and are pretty decent. But the best IMHO would be to find some NOS 5751 tubes. These can be easily (if not cheaply) purchased in the US from places like TubeDepot.com; not sure what that means for you.


----------



## LarsHP

There aren't any shops locally, unfortunately. I expect a lower gain than the stock will be a good idea. As I have understood, then ECC83 has a gain of 100, which means I should try getting 5751 (gain 70) or perhaps 12AT7 (gain 60). It's no problem to order from the states or elsewhere.
   
  BTW I have found that the terrible distortion when playing Prelude from "Carmen" is caused by a very high input signal, and that lower level tracks play louder without distortion. The Prelude from Carmen starts off with a big bang on the drums and this reaches the digital limit (0dB) with full power which then puts the full 2.5 volt signal into the amp. When listening to pop etc. with less than thunderous levels at -1dB or so, then I can have higher loudness / listening levels.
   
  In other words, it points to getting less gain than stock, I think. I listen at from 9 to 12 o'clock on the volume dial - with the HE-6!


----------



## Anders

There are certainly better tubes than Golden Dragon but you should not get different results with other tubes regarding output and distortion, or only marginally. 5751 has a lower gain than ECC83 but the difference is not great. It is not sure that the amplification will be lower with 5751. Often amplification is controlled by the circuit and not by the tube and this seems probable for Leben because it is self-biasing. I didn't get the impression of lower volume with 5751 when I tried but I didn't compare tubes for this reason and am not sure. It there would be a difference it is not night and day.
   
  It has been repeatedly reported that HE-6 require more power than is possible with Leben's headphone output. It is a 12/15 W amplifier but not on the headphone output. Other tubes should not make much difference.
   
  You can get better sound with other tubes. Telefunken are much overrated in my opinion. Learning about tubes takes some time and work and there is no quick fix, but it is worth it in sound quality and fun.


----------



## Raaf

Edit * Anders was just ahead of me
   
  Out of my own expeirience, changing the drivertubes for lower gain ones doesn't do a lot.
  The CS300 is a beautifull amp made with excellent parts and should sound great out of the box but I think it was sold to you with cheap chinese tubes in it .
   
  If I where you I would start with replacing the Chinese tubes with decent ones and start from there .
  I reccomend :
  4 Reactor 6p14p output tubes
  2 JJ or Electro Harmonix 12ax7/ecc83 or any nice afordable NOS tubes you come across .
  I have allso tried  the NOS RCA or General Electric 6211A (70% gain), a very microphonic but excellent sounding tube, you should be able to get those under 10 Euro.
   
  I use 2 NOS Adzam ECC83 and 4 Reactor 6p14p and have placed a Choke in the ECC83 powersupply .


----------



## LarsHP

I really think it does sound great as it is, except for the slight noise when using LCD-2 and of course that it doesn't drive the HE-6 from the headphone output (as it is), but this was frankly not a surprise to me. However, the HE-6 sounds well bodied and has good weight in the mids and bass - though not the same tight and punchy bass as my two solid state amps (Master-6 and Soloist).
   
  It seems to excel with slow, soft music like Norah Jones (naturally, now we saw that she has the amp herself) and violin / classical / vocal music.
   
  Edit: typo


----------



## kazsud

What is the going price on the CS300XS these days?


----------



## LarsHP

I just ordered a pair of Siemens & Halske 5751 NOS tubes from the grand old (NOS-tube) man here in Norway. These should be as good as it gets, as far as I understand. This reduces the gain of the input tubes back to the original level (70). It's supposed to be very silent tubes, so hopefully it will decrease the slight hiss I hear with LCD-2 (and my 91dB speakers).
   
  BTW he told me that the Golden Dragon ECC83T is a VERY good tube, comparable to the best NOS tubes. List price in Norway is US$50 each (plus VAT), so it's not that the input tubes in the amp are bad or very noisy, they just have a little too much gain.


----------



## Raaf

Ah well , it is with tubes as it is with cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I hope your new tubes do perform as you expect, let us know.


----------



## LarsHP

I got an answer from Leben via the official dealer, that the distortion I hear on the Prelude from Carmen isn't caused by the higher gain with the ECC83, but more likely that either the input or output tubes are getting worn out. This is of course something I have to check out. I got extra tubes from the seller also, so it's quite easy to do.
   
*EDIT:*
  Talked to the seller of my amp. The tubes in the amp haven't even used for more than 30 hours, so this is obviously not the reason.
   
  Maybe it's because I use hard to drive headphones? 50 Ohms is not bad itself, but with a sensitivity of 91dB (LCD-2) and especially HE-6 (77,5dB according to Inner Fidelity) this could ask more current, than the headphone output can deliver, when a maximum level heavy bass transient hits the input? Maybe the full 2.5V input exceeds the input circuits? (In other words it expects max 2V?)
   
  The HD800 has a much easier load (for this amp), so this might be another reason to go for it for the Senn's.
   
  For the HE-6 and LCD-2 it might be better to use the speaker outputs with a resistor in parallel. I have asked Leben how high impedance they recommend as maximum (with 8 Ohm setting on the selector). This will give me an idea how much power the headphones will be able to receive. It should be able to handle more than 8 Ohms, I expect, but how much, I don't know.


----------



## Anders

I also believe that the distortion depends on the power demand of HE-6.
   
  Please tell us what Leben say about driving headphones on the speaker outputs. It has been reported earlier that the power is enough for HE-6 but the impedance mismatch could possibly damage the transformers. That is probably the only part of the amplifier that can't easily be repaired, and would be expensive too.


----------



## LarsHP

If I go for a target of the stated load (8 Ohm), then I will use a 10 Ohm resistor in parallel and the (50 Ohm) headphone will then get 2 Watt. This is actually enough, but a little more would probably be nice.


----------



## Anders

I spoke with my tube amp guru today, he has a long experience of designing and repairing tube amps. He didn't believe that driving HE-6 direct from the speaker outputs would damage the amplifier, but could not give a guarantee. He said that it is safe with a parallel resistor and also could be an advantage because the impedance (total impedance of the parallel circuit) is closer to what the amp is designed for. The resistor could be between 10 and 20 ohm, 5 W. If I understand it correctly a higher value than 10 ohm would deliver a larger part of the output power to the headphone (with an impedance of 50 ohm).
   
  I also asked about the choke and he said that is a good idea. It can reduce noise and improve sound quality, probably a slight improvement but definitely not night-and-day. Raaf, he wondered where you put the choke? It could be on the power supply to the screen of the tube or to the anode and it could be useful to know which. The main problem should be to find a choke that is small enough to fit in the amplifier.


----------



## LarsHP

I will start off with a 10 Ohm, 10W ceramic resistor. This I got cheap and it will allow me to get an impression of how it performs via the speaker outputs. I have been playing with the idea to use a higher value because it will let the HE-6 have more of the power, as your tube-guru also says, but at the moment I haven't received an answer from Leben regarding how high an impedance is safe to use.
   
  Since the amp is 12W, a 10 Ohm resistor will let the HE-6 get 2W, but if I use for example a 16 Ohm resistor, the HE-6 will receive 2.9W, while the amp will "see" a 12.2 Ohm load ... if I calculated correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I expect a load of about 12 Ohm, when using the 8 Ohm setting, will be fine, but I want Leben to confirm the highest safe impedance. It may be higher.
   
  Another advantage using speaker outputs is the much lower output impedance. Since my CS300 has a 270 Ohm resistor on the headphone output, I expect the difference will be huge.


----------



## victorcc

I am very interested too in reading what Leben has to say about the HE-6s
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





anders said:


> I also asked about the choke and he said that is a good idea. It can reduce noise and improve sound quality, probably a slight improvement but definitely not night-and-day. Raaf, he wondered where you put the choke? It could be on the power supply to the screen of the tube or to the anode and it could be useful to know which. The main problem should be to find a choke that is small enough to fit in the amplifier.


 
   
  A picture says more than words :

   
  I have placed the choke in series with the 2.7K resistor.
  The choke is a little old transformer out of a old  "wallsocket powersupply".
  I have used only the primary (230 V.) side.
  It was small enough to slide it in between the AC and speaker terminals, I wraped some tape around it so it fits exactly.
   
  Of course it's no big improvement, the Leben is well designed, but there was a slight humm with the volume full open with no music ,
  and that has gone , my CS300 is completely silent now.
   
  All the little improvements you make in a set-up add up, my approach to audio is to get the powersupply's as clean as possible and to keep the chain as short as possible, less is more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And of course I'm a tube fanatic, the opamps of my dac have gone and have been replaced with tubes, that was a great improvement.
  Have a look at the Lampizator website for how-to's : http://www.lampizator.eu/


----------



## 2359glenn

Here is a small choke at low cost that should fit.  It is sold at Allied Electronics.
  I use these all the time.
  I don't know why expensive amps like these have such a cheep power supply.
   
  http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ntkrimary|70218148|3|,Ny:True,Ro:0&dsDimensionSearch=D:70218148,Dxm:All,Dxp:3&SearchType=0&Term=70218148


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I don't know why expensive amps like these have such a cheep power supply.


 
   
  Makes me wander too, the extra cost of a choke is allmost  nothing compared to the rest of the components .
  But ty to tell that to a manager


----------



## dminches

Where is the power supply in that picture?


----------



## 2359glenn

I used to work for Harman Kardon in the 70s and Engineering would come out with a good product.
  After the office got through with switching to cheaper components the stereo usually ended up
  a piece of crap.


----------



## LarsHP

BINGO!
  Here is what I stumbled on when I searched the net (with added bold & italics to the interesting part):
  Quote: 





> (...) the CS-300 was shortly followed by an improved version CS-300 X (Limited), where some changes were introduced (photo nr. 7). The output terminals used were better, there was _*an additional choke in the power supply*_, some passive elements were exchanged to better ones, but most of all the output tubes were exchanged to rare Mullard NOS.


 
  Link:  http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en
   
  In other words, the standard/original CS300 does not have a choke in the PSU, but the later/upgraded versions has! This is in other words an "official mod" by the manufacturer.
   
  The noise I hear with LCD-2 is in fact mostly a humming, which most likely is caused by the trafo inside the amp.
   
*Edit: *
  I need to add this from the above article:
  Quote: 





> A choke in power section, in the anode circuitry, is a “holy grail”, and is used by many tube device manufacturers. But like any other element, it has its problems.
> (...)
> ... the choke, which was one of the biggest changes to the Limited version, is also gone.
> (...)
> ... the HD800 are high impedance headphones - 600Ω – and they are not so forgiving, any error, any noise or hum can be heard immediately – just like with high efficiency loudspeakers. And with them, this hum was annoying. Mr. Waszczyszyn, like any scientist, systematically searched for the reason, and found out, that _*there is no choke in my unit*_, but only resistors, what increases noise slightly, and that the hum is a result of the chosen topology, with one channel closer to the power supply than the other. So it cannot be helped without reworking the whole amplifier. And I did not want to do that, because we could maybe improve on this one aspect, while destroying everything else, because architecture of elements is a part of the “magic” coming from years of experience. And I am sure Mr. Hyodo knew what he was doing. Well – this was probably a part of the compromise. There is nothing we can do with the loudspeaker output, but with the headphone output it is a different story. It was enough to _*solder a few resistors to the headphone socket, and that was it*_. Their values must be chosen experimentally, as it will depend on the impedance and efficiency of our headphones. At first the values were chosen too big, and needed to be adjusted, but now I can tell, that there is no hum at all! And no noise. This is the reason I recommend this simple trick to everyone – it is cheap and effective.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





larshp said:


> BINGO!
> Here is what I stumbled on when I searched the net (with added bold & italics to the interesting part):
> Link:  http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-135&lang=en
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have a CS-300X version...but don't see any choke in the power supply. OR Am I seeing right through it?!


----------



## Raaf

No choke indeed .
  But from what I get out of the story, only the special custom build had one.
  According to some tube gurus the best "sounding" powersupplies have a tube rectifier and a choke.
  From what I experience and hear on my set , a choke has more pro's than contra's.


----------



## Anders

The choke on the CS-300X is located in the upper section of the amplifier, between the power supply and the transformers. I don't know how it is connected and the circuit, but it is probably wired differently than Raaf's choke.


----------



## Raaf

That is not a choke Anders, I found this image earlier in this thread


----------



## LarsHP

@ Raaf
The custum built CS300 doesn't have a choke and neither the standard, but - according to the article - the X version(s) has.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





raaf said:


> That is not a choke Anders, I found this image earlier in this thread


 
   
  That's the image of my amp which i posted in April. Those are just cheap resistors.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





raaf said:


> That is not a choke Anders, I found this image earlier in this thread


 
   
  I assumed it was a choke because it has been said that there is a choke in the CS300X model and there is no such box in the CS300. In the CS300 there is no box as in the picture I published and neither the resistors on you picture. Is the box just a cover for the resistors or what is in it?


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





larshp said:


> @ Raaf
> The custum built CS300 doesn't have a choke and neither the standard, but - according to the article - the X version(s) has.


 

 Exactly. That's why i posed the question.
   
  Looks like Leben managed to build a 'Limited' version within the X version batch...which itself was a limited version!
   
  Since I replaced the blown resistor in April (the middle resistor in the image above)...I have had zero hum in my amp.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





anders said:


> I assumed it was a choke because it has been said that there is a choke in the CS300X model and there is no such box in the CS300. In the CS300 there is no box as in the picture I published and neither the resistors on you picture. Is the box just a cover for the resistors or what is in it?


 

 It is not a box. It is just an L plate that cover the resistors and is screwed on to the chassis. i had removed it in the image above to show the damaged resistor.


----------



## Raaf

Top photo is my CS300 in unmodded state.
  2nd is Bugleboy's CS300X
  The resistors  that the 300 has in the bottom section have been placed in the top section in the 300X.
   
  @ Bugleboy :
  What is under the "box" at the right of the powertransformer ?
  *Edit  I mean on the other picture


----------



## Anders

Thanks Raaf and BugleBoy! Looking closer at the picture I can see that it is a plate and not a box. I thought that was some goodie in the box that you only get with the X model. It is not so but there are still a few components of higher quality in the X model.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





raaf said:


> Top photo is my CS300 in unmodded state.
> 2nd is Bugleboy's CS300X
> The resistors  that the 300 has in the bottom section have been placed in the top section in the 300X.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The big capacitor in the X version is mounted vertically and cuts through the chassis....as opposed being laid out horizontally (compare the 2 images above). The 'box' on the right of the transformer is just another L plate that covers this protruding capacitor.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





anders said:


> Thanks Raaf and BugleBoy! Looking closer at the picture I can see that it is a plate and not a box. I thought that was some goodie in the box that you only get with the X model. It is not so but there are still a few components of higher quality in the X model.


 

 The key differences I noticed are the coupling capacitors which I think are of better quality and the use of Riken resistors (the blue ones). I also think the big black capacitor in the X version is much bigger...hence needs to be mounted vertically (Not 100% sure about this though).


----------



## Raaf

Originally Posted by *BugleBoy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
   
  The big capacitor in the X version is mounted vertically and cuts through the chassis....as opposed being laid out horizontally (compare the 2 images above). The 'box' on the right of the transformer is just another L plate that covers this protruding capacitor.
   
  Of course....... logic


----------



## Funklezen

Quote: 





funklezen said:


> Thanks, I only had it switched to headphones.
> 
> I took it to the repair shop earlier today and I should have an answer Friday at the latest, hope its not something serious...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi,
   
  I Forgot to get back to you guys. It was just two of the tubes that needed to be replaced. And it has been playing nicely since then


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





funklezen said:


> I just tried to push the input jack a little to the side while it was playing and most of the sound returned, if I let go the volume goes down and the sound sounds distant. So maybe the input jack is loose.


 
   
  And this was fixed with 2 new tubes ?
   
  Ahh well, but good to hear your Leben performs well at last.


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> The key differences I noticed are the coupling capacitors which I think are of better quality and the use of Riken resistors (the blue ones). I also think the big black capacitor in the X version is much bigger...hence needs to be mounted vertically (Not 100% sure about this though).


 
   
  Coupling capacitors, I have been fiddlin' with mine, have 4 little siver-mica capacitors paralel at the moment.
  But I would like to try some PIO's , I use them in the tube stage of my Dac as well and I like the balanced sound of PIO's .
   
  And about the bigger Capacitor in the 300X  powersupply, aparently I wasn't the only one that noticed the hum


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





raaf said:


> Coupling capacitors, I have been fiddlin' with mine, have 4 little siver-mica capacitors paralel at the moment.
> But I would like to try some PIO's , I use them in the tube stage of my Dac as well and I like the balanced sound of PIO's .
> 
> And about the bigger Capacitor in the 300X  powersupply, aparently I wasn't the only one that noticed the hum


 
   
  Tube rolling has been great fun with the Leben over the past few years. I am curious to see how coupling capacitor rolling could spice it up even more. A contraption like the one in this image can make it more fun


----------



## Anders

Looks like Duelund capacitors, the big ones in the picture are very expensive!


----------



## LarsHP

That setup has really low WAF


----------



## Raaf

The setup is OK but I don't like the carpet


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





anders said:


> Looks like Duelund capacitors, the big ones in the picture are very expensive!


 

 Yeah...they cost over $400 a pop. They are arguably the best capacitors available at present.


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





larshp said:


> That setup has really low WAF


 
   
  The trick is to keep the room a bit untidy at all times...then this will just blend in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL!!  Camouflage, Nice!


----------



## LarsHP

It seems that the Prelude from Carmen is giving the CS300 some early distortion so to speak - that is - I can listen to other tracks louder without distortion. This is with HE-6 from headphone output. At the same volume dial position I also hear distortion on my speakers. In other words, it might have to do with a too high level at the input stage. (Maybe someone with better tech knowledge can correct me here?)
   
  Today I mounted a couple of 10 Ohm power resistors in parallel on the speaker taps and attatched the HE-6 to those. Since the CS300 is 12W, the HE-6 receives up to 2W (and the resistor 10W). This way I have a much higher output available - higher than I need, but maybe not high enough to play distortion-free at profoundly ear damaging levels. In other words I feel I have enough power, but just so.
   
  However, I now hear a little bit of humming between tracks (and when the music is very low level). This is allegedly fixed by mounting a choke (as Anders has claimed), but I won't do that myself ...
   
  Treble is simply gorgeous and bass is tight and punchy. A very relaxed sound with lots of space around instruments.


----------



## Raaf

If it is only the Prelude from Carmen that gives distortion problems it might have to do with the "edgy" recording level of that track.
  Perhaps some amps can just handle it and the leben just not .
  I do recognize the problem , I have some (to) loud recordings al well.


----------



## Anders

Quote: 





larshp said:


> Today I mounted a couple of 10 Ohm power resistors in parallel on the speaker taps and attatched the HE-6 to those. Since the CS300 is 12W, the HE-6 receives up to 2W (and the resistor 10W). This way I have a much higher output available - higher than I need, but maybe not high enough to play distortion-free at profoundly ear damaging levels. In other words I feel I have enough power, but just so.


 
   
  It you really want to destroy your ears you could try with 20 ohm resistors for higher output!
   
  Congratulations to the improvements! I didn't say that a choke removes humming and only asked my tube guru about it and he said that it is a good idea and it reduces noise. I think that it was Raaf who had done it and reported positive results. I don't experience humming as a problem and have no plan of trying it for that reason, but maybe because of the general improvement of sound quality that is possible (noise leads to some loss of transparency).
   
  However, the design goals of Mr.Hyodo seem not to be to minimize noise and get top results on standard measurements. Many also have observed that the relation between standard measurements and sound quality is weak. Indeed, some designs probably got worse sound as a consequence of reducing distortion to extremely low levels with lots of zeros before the significant digit (e.g. massive amount of negative feedback). Leben sounds like it sounds, IMHO not totally transparent and it rounds of a little and make the music a little more beautiful than it really is. But in a way that emphasize the essential musical content and is musically appealing and very listenable. Sometimes I use other amps for a change and a different take on the presentation.
   
  I doubt that your source has too high output level and that this causes distortion. Of course, if it has much higher specified output than standard it is possible but it is unusual that components has that high output. In that case it can be solved by an attenuator between source and amp. That kind of distortion on a single or a few albums can be very difficult to track because there are so many possible causes.


----------



## LarsHP

Sorry about quoting the wrong person (to both Raaf and Anders).
   
  I should add that I have checked used declipper on that specific track and also checked it afterwards in Audacity (zoomed in very close on the waveform), so I can see as well as hear, that there is no clipping. As I said this distortion only happens over a certain volume/level.
   
  My issue with this amp right now is that I obviously have either hum and enough power - or no hum, but too little power. Could this be because the amp is 12W only? Or is it because it has a higher noise floor than I am used to from solid state amps? Or both? I am only guessing.


----------



## Anders

It certainly has a higher noise floor than modern SS amps.


----------



## Raaf

Lars, just put in a choke.
  I am convinced you won't regret it , it really is a good improvement.
  Chokes do not affect the sound in a negative way.
   
  Before I placed the choke I tried all sorts of improvements like netfilters and even a net decoupling transformer for my dac and amp , but alltough that gave a very clean sound it allso cleaned out the soul of the music.
  But do make sure it is a classic metal core choke and not some modern ferrite composition core choke, the last ones clean out to much.


----------



## LarsHP

Quote: 





raaf said:


> The only way I could get my CS300 completly silent was to put a choke in de powersupply for the driver tubes.


 
  So, did this lower hum or hiss - or both?
  I hear mostly hum, not hiss.
   
I did see your pic of the choke also, but could you possibly take a photo showing exactly where it is soldered in please?




  Also: What value is it or needs it to be?
   
  Edit: Just re-read your previous post and you already gave enough info about placing of the choke there ...


----------



## LarsHP

What about slightly turning the big / PSU trafo to see if the magnetic field will hit the input circuits less?
  Someone suggested this to me, but I am a little hesitant becuase this implies the trafo has to be mounted in new holes in the metal plate and I prefer not to drill in it


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





larshp said:


> What about slightly turning the big / PSU trafo to see if the magnetic field will hit the input circuits less?
> Someone suggested this to me, but I am a little hesitant becuase this implies the trafo has to be mounted in new holes in the metal plate and I prefer not to drill in it


 
  That would be much more work than putting in a choke, just think of all the connections you need to redo.
  About the value of the choke, i used a old transformer so I have no clue but *2359glenn posted earlier :*
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Here is a small choke at low cost that should fit.  It is sold at Allied Electronics.
> I use these all the time.
> I don't know why expensive amps like these have such a cheep power supply.
> 
> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ntkrimary|70218148|3|,Ny:True,Ro:0&dsDimensionSearch=D:70218148,Dxm:All,Dxp:3&SearchType=0&Term=70218148


 
  Farnell sells these as well and even in your native language  http://no.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2022+203354&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=Triad+Magnetics&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial


----------



## LarsHP

So it needs to be able to handle the full 115V / 230V that we have from the wall outlet?
  I also have some small wall wart PSU's lying around somewhere that I might be able to use ...


----------



## Raaf

That is what I used, 230V here in Netherlands


----------



## RedBull

Lars, how loud is the hum? can give some comparison?


----------



## 2359glenn

The majority of the hum is coming from the output transformers mounted to close to the power/mains transformer.
  A choke is not going to get rid of this the only thing is to put the power transformer in a separate box.
  Or replace it with a high quality C core transformer.  Both of these would be quite a undertaking for the average person.
  If the transformer was replaced with a Lundahl C core transformer no more hum. The Lundahl transformers do not
  make a large magnetic field like cheep E-I core transformers.


----------



## LarsHP

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Lars, how loud is the hum? can give some comparison?


 
  Difficult to say, but not loud as such, just audible in a silent room when no music is playing, in quiet passages or with solo instruments playing. With most rythmical music it's not audible except when music fades in or out. With classical music it can be audible in some passages as mentioned.


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The majority of the hum is coming from the output transformers mounted to close to the power/mains transformer.
> A choke is not going to get rid of this the only thing is to put the power transformer in a separate box.
> Or replace it with a high quality C core transformer.  Both of these would be quite a undertaking for the average person.
> If the transformer was replaced with a Lundahl C core transformer no more hum. The Lundahl transformers do not
> make a large magnetic field like cheep E-I core transformers.


 

 Since I have the choke in I hear no hum anymore.


----------



## LarsHP

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The majority of the hum is coming from the output transformers mounted to close to the power/mains transformer.
> A choke is not going to get rid of this the only thing is to put the power transformer in a separate box.
> Or replace it with a high quality C core transformer.  Both of these would be quite a undertaking for the average person.
> If the transformer was replaced with a Lundahl C core transformer no more hum. The Lundahl transformers do not
> make a large magnetic field like cheep E-I core transformers.


 
  I am afraid you are right, but I hope not ...
  So - it's the mains/power trafo that I should consider replacing with a Lundahl C core trafo? It should be Lundahl's LL1649 then?
   
  Actually I don't know what to think, since Raaf says he got rid of humming after putting in that choke.


----------



## RedBull

larshp said:


> Difficult to say, but not loud as such, just audible in a silent room when no music is playing, in quiet passages or with solo instruments playing. With most rythmical music it's not audible except when music fades in or out. With classical music it can be audible in some passages as mentioned.




Hmm, ok, thanks, sorry, can't help much. I don't know much about electronic.


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





larshp said:


> Actually I don't know what to think, since Raaf says he got rid of humming after putting in that choke.


 
   
  Perhaps the powertransformer is not as bad as Glenn assumes


----------



## Skylab

Leben amps were actually highly acclaimed for the custom wound transformers, although they were mostly the output transformers that were the "big deal".


----------



## 2359glenn

I am not saying the transformer is bad any E-I transformer will have a strong 50 or 60 Hz magnetic field that will be picked up by the output transformers. If you take a output transformer hook a headphone to the secondary nothing to the primary and put it next to a E-I power transformer you will here hum. I built amps and hum drove me crazy couldn't figure what I was doing wrong until I turned the amp on with no tubes in the amp. Guess what HUM from the power transformer to the output transformers.


----------



## Skylab

I see what you are saying, and that makes sense, Glenn, thanks. There isn't a lot of space inside the Leben's chassis...so the transformers are indeed quite close together.


----------



## Raaf

I'm getting your point Glenn, and I assume you are right that the power transformer will influence the right- and perhaps even the left- output transformer.
  Now I can only speak for myself, but taking out the EL84's to hear if there's any hum goes beyond the level of what I want to achhieve with this amp.
  I think it's better to sell it in original state and get a good price for it and buy a better one rather than to do a complete power transformer switch.
  Anyway,I always listen to my amp with the EL84's in wich is now silent with the choke.
  Some day when I have some more time I would like to build a tube amp from scratch and I will definitely try to build that as good as possible, meanwhile I enjoy the Leben alltough not being perfect.
   
   
   
  *edit style and typo's


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





raaf said:


> I'm getting your point Glenn, and I assume you are right that the power transformer will influence the right- and perhaps even the left- output transformer.
> Now I can only speak for myself, but taking out the EL84's to hear if there's any hum goes beyond the level of what I want to achhieve with this amp.
> I think it's better to sell it in original state and get a good price for it and buy a better one rather than to do a complete power transformer switch.
> Anyway,I always listen to my amp with the EL84's in wich is now silent with the choke.
> ...


 

 A choke in the power supply will get rid of a little ripple in the B+ voltage. It is much better then just a resistor.
  I took the output tubes out just as a test to prove to myself what was going on when I still had hum on the output.
  This is why some amps have a separate power supplies.   But this does not mean these amps sound better
  If you want a total black background with no input and the volume turned all the way up best go with SS.
  And here is a question if you can here a little hum when there is no music playing what difference does it make???
  What is important is the amp sounds good with the music playing.  I don't understand this total black background
  thing most SS amps don't even achieve this.


----------



## Raaf

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> And here is a question if you can here a little hum when there is no music playing what difference does it make???
> What is important is the amp sounds good with the music playing.  I don't understand this total black background
> thing most SS amps don't even achieve this.


 
   
  Good question, but I don't know the answer
  I personally like to have things as distortion free as possible, because in the end noise will start to annoy me and I get tired of listening.
  Its like my pc that is on now, it makes noise, not a lot and I sort of ignore it but if I turn it off I become aware of how present the noise was.
  However there is a point where the technical measures you take in music equipment can kill the music as I posted earlier:
   
  "Before I placed the choke I tried all sorts of improvements like net-filters and even a net decoupling transformer for my dac and amp , but although that gave a very clean sound it also cleaned out the soul of the music."
   
  Finding the right balance is the trick but I think what is acceptable is different for each person.
  You have people that listen to opamps and UCD amplifiers and enjoy that
  And there are people that are horrified by the thought alone.


----------



## 2359glenn

A choke will get rid of high frequency noise coming in from the power line as well as other noise
  I don't understand a amp with this price tag just uses cheep resistors in the filtering of the power supply crazy.


----------



## victorcc

Quote: 





> For the HE-6 and LCD-2 it might be better to use the speaker outputs with a resistor in parallel. I have asked Leben how high impedance they recommend as maximum (with 8 Ohm setting on the selector). This will give me an idea how much power the headphones will be able to receive. It should be able to handle more than 8 Ohms, I expect, but how much, I don't know.


 
   
  Did you get an answer from Leben?


----------



## LarsHP

No, I still haven't heard from Leben.
  As of now, I use 10 Ohm resistors with the HE-6 on speaker taps. This makes a total load of 8.3 Ohm ("seen by the amp") and 2 Watts available to the HE-6.


----------



## LarsHP

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> (...)
> And here is a question if you can here a little hum when there is no music playing what difference does it make???
> What is important is the amp sounds good with the music playing.  I don't understand this total black background
> thing most SS amps don't even achieve this.


 
  First of all, I agree that not all SS amps a dead silent, but then this is high end territory, and in this neighborhood things aren't as most things are.
   
  Then, as I said earlier: _The hum is audible while listening to low level passages and solo instruments or voices_. The hum or noise adds a "veil" to the music in these cases.
   
  While I really appreciate the way my CS300 sound - especially with slow or soft types of music as well a music recorded in larger spaces or stages - the humming noise is in fact a serious issue to me. I think - considering the very high price of the amp AND the low wattage it has - that "faults" like humming should be either non-existent or hardly audible.
   
Generally speaking and IMO: It may be hard to achieve this with tube amps, but that's why we have high end amps. They should deliver this kind of no-compromise achievements. I could better accept a very high powered amp with noise and hum, but a 12W amp with hum or noise will make a quite small useful range in terms of selection of headphones and speakers: They need to be efficient enough to be driven by the low wattage, but not too efficient, because then humming noise will be messing with the music.
   
  Unfortunately the CS300 sits between these two chairs: It has humming noise with the 91dB speakers I have (although lower than with my headphones) as well as my LCD-2 (which is has a relatively low sensitivity at 91dB) via the headphone output. With HE-6 there is no humming noise via headphone output, but then there isn't enough power to drive it to needed levels. In other words, I can choose between having the humming noise or a quite low maximum sound level.
   
  Bottom line: "Houston, we have a problem".
   
  Hopefully I will be able to fix it with either a choke as Raaf suggests, or finally by changing the mains/power trafo. The latter solution seems a bit far-fetched considering the cause of the issue is the component choice made by the amp designer - in an expensive high end amp.
   
  Sorry to complain about this beautiful and otherwise wonderfully sounding amp, but I am a bit disappointed.


----------



## victorcc

Quote: 





larshp said:


> No, I still haven't heard from Leben.
> As of now, I use 10 Ohm resistors with the HE-6 on speaker taps. This makes a total load of 8.3 Ohm ("seen by the amp") and 2 Watts available to the HE-6.


 
  Thanks, I am using the same configuration for now in my 230V CS300XS. Before I had, besides the 10 Ohm resistors in paralell, two 3 Ohm resistors connected in series that eliminated the hum but also reduced the dynamics so I came back to the "dynamic hum" situation 
   
  I totally understand your feelings as noise has been the main factor that kept me far from tube amps for a few years until I heard the Leben and liked it so much. Still, I did not expect that the Leben would hum with the HE-6s. It was a disappointment for me too that does not prevent me to enjoy the combination a lot but I would love to get rid of that noise as noise is noise and I would like to feel the music as transparent as possible.
   
  In my case I can hear the hum as soon as the Leben is switched on when I am close to the amp. Then, with the HE-6s on, I can hear a very distant hum. The hum is always independent of the pot position.
   
  I tried with cheap dampers in the tubes but the hum did not change at all. I would like to try also the choke option but my DIY abilities are so poor that I am afraid of not using the proper component and kill the amp.
   
  Let's keep trying to find a solution for the sake of all Leben lovers that have hum and do not appreciate it.
   
   
  Cheers,
   
     Victor.


----------



## LarsHP

Quote: 





victorcc said:


> Thanks, I am using the same configuration for now in my 230V CS300XS. Before I had, besides the 10 Ohm resistors in paralell, two 3 Ohm resistors connected in series that eliminated the hum but also reduced the dynamics so I came back to the "dynamic hum" situation
> 
> I totally understand your feelings as noise has been the main factor that kept me far from tube amps for a few years until I heard the Leben and liked it so much. Still, I did not expect that the Leben would hum with the HE-6s. It was a disappointment for me too that does not prevent me to enjoy the combination a lot but I would love to get rid of that noise as noise is noise and I would like to feel the music as transparent as possible.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't recall hearing mechanical hum (the hum you hear directly from the amp, not through speakers/headphones). This implies you have quite a lot of DC offset from the wall outlet, because I have problems with that on my SS speaker amp, but not the Leben - it's dead silent in that way.


----------



## LarsHP

QUESTION to DIY'ers, PRO's and others who know about tube amp design:
   
  Would it be possible to get rid of the hum if the mains trafo is shielded?


----------



## LarsHP

Today I talked to the NOS tube grand old man here in Norway who is an engineer and he asked me if the hum was 50Hz or 100Hz, because if it was 50Hz, then the source of the hum is the main trafo, but if it is 100Hz, then it is in another place where a choke (as described by Raaf) will do the job removing the hum. I haven't checked yet, but I expect the hum is 100Hz, so this seems promising!


----------



## victorcc

[size=small]Hi Lars,[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]
 [size=small] How will you know if the hum is 50Hz or 100Hz?[/size]


----------



## RedBull

^ good question, would like to know as well.


----------



## Skylab

Since the hum is audible, the difference between 50Hz and 100 Hz is VERY easy to distinguish by ear.


----------



## Anders

It's very easy if you hear two tones after another but more difficult with a single tone. I have a CD with test tones (sinus tones) for speakers and listened to 100 and 50 Hz. I have another amp for the speakers and compared not directly but the slight hum I can hear from Leben should be 50 Hz taken from memory. The 100 Hz tone differs clearly from the Leben hum.


----------



## RedBull

I see, hmm, I can guess, but just can't be sure sure sure. But I guess, just download 50 amd 100 Hz tone and memorize, should be fine, I guess.


----------



## longbowbbs

CS300X up on Audiogon
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-leben-cs300x-integrated-tube-amplifier-with-nos-mullard-el84-tubes-2013-09-02-integrateds-23505-norfolk-va


----------



## vert

Does anyone know what type of screws are for the top lid? I've lost 3 of them and I'm looking for a replacements.
  
 I will be putting my CS300XS (230v) for sale for $2k if anyone is interested.


----------



## Xenophon

Gentlemen, forgive me but I have to ask as I've been reading a largish part of this thread with mounting astonishment:  why do most of you seem to consider it normal or at least acceptable that a supposedly pretty high-end product (sells online in Germany for about 3000 EUR new) behaves in such a way?  I certainly understand LarsHP's disappointment; myself I'd be furious in stead of just disappointed if I paid what isn't exactly pocket change for an amp that imho is simply a flawed product?  What does this money get you, a pretty wooden box with a set of specs that makes for very limited usefulness except if you open it straight away and start swapping out/adding parts (even without this hum).  Flabbergasted by the suggestion to 'just ignore it and focus on the music'---> for a 100 EUR amp that might fly but imho 3000 EUR entitles one to more.
  
 I don't intend to make a mockery out of it but to me the situation described above just seems to be way beyond reason, the fact that Leben doesn't answer a mail with questions just adds insult to injury.  I'm trying to find a redeeming quality in the setup that would make it worthwhile to accept all these limitations but for the life of me, I don't see it.  The same amount of money (give or take) could purchase you a Burson conductor + a pair of HE-6 or a Violectric V-800/V-200 dac/amp combo that's generally accepted as top quality + a HE-6 that could be driven to its full with ease.  Admittedly I'm a solid state  guy although not a rabid one but stories like this certainly don't stimulate a person to give tubes a try.


----------



## RedBull

Not try to defend the product, but if you happened to get it right, it sound is quite difficult to beat (preference apply), maybe that's why some people are still willing to place a 'bet'.


----------



## Raaf

I've bought my CS300 new some 4 years ago and I have never been disappointed and I still think it was worth every cent.
 I use mine mainly to drive high efficiency speakers.
 You have to bear in mind that people like Lars use the amp to drive headphones  that this amp is not designed for.
 The Leben 300 series are integrated stereo amplifiers with a headphone output mainly suited for low imp headphones.


----------



## RedBull

I am using cs-300xs solely only for my headphones and they are awesome with Leben.

If i like Stax, i will probably use the speaker out (with adaper) to drive the Staxes too.


----------



## Skylab

My CS-300 sounds fantastic and has no audible hum of any consequence. I also think it sounds terrific.

That said, if I had bought one new that did have a disturbingly high amount of hum, I for sure would have taken it back to the dealer. I'm glad mine didn't have a lot of hum because I bought mine used.


----------



## Clayton SF

I owned the Leben CS300XS and then subsequently traded up to the Leben CS600. Both amps performed superbly with no hum straight out of the box. I did have an issue with the 600 where there was static coming out of one speaker but it was solved by simply removing and reinserting all of the tubes. I haven't touched those stock tubes since then.


----------



## mock-up

I'm looking for Leben CS-300 (or X or XS). EU voltage preferable. Please PM.


----------



## orkney

I've decided to pick one of these up if I can find one to serve as my hp/speaker amp. Is there a particular version/SN to avoid given these apparent hum problems? Is it linked to voltage? I've passed up a few tube amps recently because of their noise and had not heard that this was a problem with the Leben.
  
 best,
  
 o


----------



## Raaf

As far as I'm aware only Lars has serious hum problems but i haven't read the whole thread.
 My CS 300 had a little hum only noticeable with the volume completely open and no music on .
 I have fixed that with a choke in the power supply  .
 CS 300 - EU 230V


----------



## LarsHP

I wouldn't say the hum is loud in any way. It's just that it is audible when no music is playing or during low level passages of music. This might be because I come from solid state headphone amps that are completely silent. Also, I was surprised that it was there since I didn't see anyone mentioning it.


----------



## arturo71

larshp said:


> I wouldn't say the hum is loud in any way. It's just that it is audible when no music is playing or during low level passages of music. This might be because I come from solid state headphone amps that are completely silent. Also, I was surprised that it was there since I didn't see anyone mentioning it.


 
 I am surprised myself that you write that since the humming issue is well known and you find it in many threads. Just search for 'hum' in this very thread and you get 8 pages of posts, some dating back to 2010. Some tricks mentioned are replacing the tubes, fastening screws, replacing the the feet and using tube dampers. However they seem to work for some people but not others, or they mitigate the problem but do not eliminate it. The one sure solution that works is replacing the 1K resistor.
  
 When I bought my Lebel unit I knew there was a risk of humming and indeed my unit hums slightly but I can't hear it when the music plays. The background is not pitch black but it is not annoying. The virtues of the Leben are elsewhere.


----------



## RedBull

arturo71 said:


> The virtues of the Leben are elsewhere.




+1


----------



## orkney

arturo71 said:


> I am surprised myself that you write that since the humming issue is well known and you find it in many threads. Just search for 'hum' in this very thread and you get 8 pages of posts, some dating back to 2010. Some tricks mentioned are replacing the tubes, fastening screws, replacing the the feet and using tube dampers. However they seem to work for some people but not others, or they mitigate the problem but do not eliminate it. The one sure solution that works is replacing the 1K resistor.
> 
> When I bought my Lebel unit I knew there was a risk of humming and indeed my unit hums slightly but I can't hear it when the music plays. The background is not pitch black but it is not annoying. The virtues of the Leben are elsewhere.


 
  
 Thanks -- very helpful. I will keep my eyes open for a CS300 without the offending resistor. Any and all version seem to be thin on the ground atm.
  
 best,
  
 o


----------



## arturo71

Hello.
  
 I want to report a mod that did wonders for my Lebel CS300XS: I replaced the feet by aftermarket audiograde feet. The aesthetics are similar to the standard feet. They feel more solid. The bass is much more controlled, this is something I was after. Also the image improves a bit.
  
 I installed the feet bfly-audio 4tubes1 which I found reasonably priced. I guess other feet will work too.


----------



## Synthax

Do all Lebens have little hum at headphones output? This hum is independent from pot movement. It is just present. Very silent, but existe.


----------



## Chrischeesk

Hi
  
 I'm thinking of using the leben SPK output to drive some electrostatic earphones form Stax with a woo audio WEE.
  
 Can anyone share some experience on the topic. Really appreciate some pointers before I get into it.
  
 Thanks
 Chris


----------



## LarsHP

@ Synthax

That's how I hear it too on my CS300.


----------



## atistatic

Hi, guys i come to ask if worth it upgrade from a LD MK VI+ to Leben CS300 X, someone that heared LD MK VI+ and have Leben CS 300 X anyone?


----------



## Synthax

I like the sound and versatility of Leben very much. It is one of the best sounding headphone amplifiers. And probably the best I 've ever heard. I'm sure it is better than LD, it is also better than my tube headphone amplifier (but to be true it does not sound 7x better than my actual amp). Leben is very expensive. So If it will not ruin your wallet - go ahead. Me, I have had to wait for better times. And when I'm thinkinkig how many records/files I can buy for this money makes me happy with my actual stuff.


----------



## Sweden

synthax said:


> I like the sound and versatility of Leben very much. It is one of the best sounding headphone amplifiers. And probably the best I 've ever heard. I'm sure it is better than LD, it is also better than my tube headphone amplifier (but to be true it does not sound 7x better than my actual amp). Leben is very expensive. So If it will not ruin your wallet - go ahead. Me, I have had to wait for better times. And when I'm thinkinkig how many records/files I can buy for this money makes me happy with my actual stuff.


 
  
 It is good to see someone buying music these days anyway.


----------



## atistatic

soooo ... no one heard both amps?


----------



## mmlogic

atistatic said:


> soooo ... no one heard both amps?


 
  
 I've owned both amps for a couple of months, not in the same league, CS300 is superior in every aspect.


----------



## RedBull

^ glad to hear that


----------



## ardilla

*Humming issues on the CS300XS and high headphone impedance*
  
 I have been one of the users complaining about humming issues on the Leben. It has not been an issue with the Audeze LCD-2/3 or Hifiman HE500, but with the HD650 the humming has been so loud that I could not use it (except on heavy metal). It is more profound on the right channel, which Leben told me was du to the right output transformer beeing closer to the input transformer (which I kind of already assumed - just take a look inside..) Leben also told me that I have the version with a "high power" output, intended for low sensitivity headphone, using different transistors than the normal version. I have posted about this in here before. http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1290#post_8731184
 I have assumed the reason for the HD650 humming is that they are quite sensitive at 103 dB. Today, however, I inserted my 110 dB SPL Sennheiser Momentum. 
  
 Guess what: 
 They are DEAD QUIET
  
 Then I inserted the 62 ohm (105 dB/V) ​AKG Q701. Also dead quiet (but less surprising, though)
  
 Since the Momentums are 18 ohm/110 dB with no humming, and the HD650 are 300 ohm/103 dB with lots of humming, I cannot draw any other conlusion than this: The humming on my Leben is dependent on headphone impedance, making high impedance cans more prone to humming than low impedance cans.
  
 Anybody else share this experience? I have noticed that the humming complaints are often related to the HD800/650 so I will be surprised if I am the only one who find that high/low headphone impedance matters. 
  
 So, you Leben hummers - plug in your sensitive low impedance cans and report 
  
 For people being consered about humming, I know some report no or little humming with high impedance phones. Why this is so I can only guess - but local AC issues might be a cause I guess (beeing no expert).


----------



## ardilla

*Hifiman HE-6 and Leben CS300XS*
 Also - today I have spent some hours listening to the Leben CS300XS and the Hifiman HE-6 using the HE-adapter. I think it sounds absolutely gorgeous, it totally transformed the HE-6 to some very fun and up-front headphones. Very different from my SS-alternatives. And really great.


----------



## BugleBoy

ardilla said:


> *Humming issues on the CS300XS and high headphone impedance*
> 
> I have been one of the users complaining about humming issues on the Leben. It has not been an issue with the Audeze LCD-2/3 or Hifiman HE500, but with the HD650 the humming has been so loud that I could not use it (except on heavy metal). It is more profound on the right channel, which Leben told me was du to the right output transformer beeing closer to the input transformer (which I kind of already assumed - just take a look inside..) Leben also told me that I have the version with a "high power" output, intended for low sensitivity headphone, using different transistors than the normal version. I have posted about this in here before. http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1290#post_8731184
> I have assumed the reason for the HD650 humming is that they are quite sensitive at 103 dB. Today, however, I inserted my 110 dB SPL Sennheiser Momentum.
> ...


 

 I had similar hum on my Leben for a long time (http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1725#post_9426924).
  
 When I replaced a burnt resistor few months back  the hum was gone completely (http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1725#post_9427659). I can report now that the hum is still absent after about 6 months...on any type of headphones and speakers.
  
 I think it is worth checking the condition of the wire-wound resistors visually (with a flashlight as it is hard to detect minor damage) and with a multimeter if possible...OR..better still just replace those wire wounds (they are cheap to buy).
  
 If you get the same results I got...we may be on to something!


----------



## Skylab

Ardilla, you may well be right. I do recall having hum when using 600 ohm headphones with the Leben. My only headphones these days are the LCD-3 and W3000ANV - both fairly low impedance. And I have no hum issues on the Leben with those.


----------



## ardilla

@skylab

I remember you writing that the Leben was designed for low imp headphones. Did you get that from Leben, or did you draw the conclusion otherwise?


----------



## Skylab

It's inherent in the design - the Leben's headphone out is a 32 ohm secondary winding from the output transformer. Such a design isn't optimized for headphones significantly above that impedance, although that's really more about power transfer than anything I can obviously point to as inducing hum.


----------



## ardilla

skylab said:


> It's inherent in the design - the Leben's headphone out is a 32 ohm secondary winding from the output transformer. Such a design isn't optimized for headphones significantly above that impedance, although that's really more about power transfer than anything I can obviously point to as inducing hum.




So NwAvGays 1/8 rule doesn't work here, the output imp should not be significantly lower than the headphone impedance? 

Ignoring the hum, the HD650 sound terrific from the Leben though..


----------



## LarsHP

I have hum with LCD-2 via headphone out, as earlier stated. This is at a low level, but it's there with no music or low level music.


----------



## ardilla

larshp said:


> I have hum with LCD-2 via headphone out, as earlier stated. This is at a low level, but it's there with no music or low level music.


 
  
 Hmm. Is it more pronounced at the right channel?
  
 I had a lot more hum with the old tubes, they were the originals, now I have Gold Dragon EL84. But I got it second hand - might be that he original tubes was just worn out.


----------



## LarsHP

I also have Golden Dragon EL84 output tubes. They are supposedly used less than 100 hours. Input tubes are new NOS.


----------



## ardilla

larshp said:


> I also have Golden Dragon EL84 output tubes. They are supposedly used less than 100 hours. Input tubes are new NOS.


 
  
 So, Lars, do you use the Leben with the HE-6? I have been using it from the speaker taps via the HE-adapter for the last couple of days - I find it absolutely gorgeous!


----------



## LarsHP

Yes, I do, and I agree that it sounds gorgeous with soft genres. I just have a 10 Ohm resistor in parallel on the speaker taps.


----------



## ardilla

larshp said:


> Yes, I do, and I agree that it sounds gorgeous with soft genres. I just have a 10 Ohm resistor in parallel on the speaker taps.




Double that. But I wouldn't restrict it to soft genres, I think it fairs well generally. I use the HE adapter.


----------



## LarsHP

It does fair well generally, but to me it excels with music that has an emotional quality and on the other hand lacks a little with hard hitting kick drums. In other words: It's superb with music for the heart, but music for the feet is not it's strongest point. In my opinion of course.


----------



## ardilla

larshp said:


> It does fair well generally, but to me it excels with music that has an emotional quality and on the other hand lacks a little with hard hitting kick drums. In other words: It's superb with music for the heart, but music for the feet is not it's strongest point. In my opinion of course.




Agreed. For super tight control of hard hitting bass drums, look weekswere. But the emotional quality is absolutely to die for


----------



## dsticker

Just wanted to chime in about the hum issue.  Until last week, the only headphones I used with my CS300XS were the LCD3 and never noticed any hum.  Then last week I got the HD 800 and immediately noticed a hum.  It might be my imagination but I think it even impacts the listening experience; in other words, I'm pretty sure I can hear the hum even while listening to music at low volumes.
  
 I'm not too bothered by this discovery.  The Leben is still exquisite with the LCD3, and I'll just use the HD 800 exclusively with the soon-to-arrive GS-X MK2.


----------



## ardilla

dsticker said:


> Just wanted to chime in about the hum issue.  Until last week, the only headphones I used with my CS300XS were the LCD3 and never noticed any hum.  Then last week I got the HD 800 and immediately noticed a hum.  It might be my imagination but I think it even impacts the listening experience; in other words, I'm pretty sure I can hear the hum even while listening to music at low volumes.
> 
> I'm not too bothered by this discovery.  The Leben is still exquisite with the LCD3, and I'll just use the HD 800 exclusively with the soon-to-arrive GS-X MK2.


 
  
 Another high impedance hum-report. Do you have any high sensitive low impedance headphones availiable?
  
 And howdoes the HD800 sound on the Leben, except for the hum?


----------



## dsticker

Now that you mention it, I forgot that I have listened to the JVC HP-DX1000 on the Leben (they're uncomfortable and I rarely use them, LOL).  They have a very slight hum but it's barely noticeable when silent and completely undetectable when music is playing.
  
 The HD 800 sounds very nice on the Leben when listening at louder volumes.  Perhaps they just need time to break in, but they sound much brighter than the LCD3.  Particularly with acoustic guitar, the sound is more detailed but a bit too bright.  Soundstage is where the HD 800 clearly defeats the LCD3, not that the LCD3 is weak in that regard but it just can't compete with the renowned soundstage king.  This is all pretty much as I was expecting.  Overall I definitely prefer the LCD3, but I didn't get the HD 800 for the Leben anyway.


----------



## Sweden

Of all amps I've head with the HD800, the DNA Sonett, Lehmann Black cube, HDVD800,  Trafomatic Head One, Crack, some WOO amps etc, no one is as good a match for sheer musical enjoyment as the Leben with these cans.  Going from the worst pairing which is the Lehman that is an analytical and dry SS amp to the luscious Leben is a revelation.
 The HD800 need some bloom in order to come alive and be suited for music were the end result is to be emotionally moved.
 With the bass boost of the Leben you almost make them an allrounder with genres, oppose to strictly classical and acoustics and some well produced stuff of other genres.


----------



## ardilla

dsticker said:


> Now that you mention it, I forgot that I have listened to the JVC HP-DX1000 on the Leben (they're uncomfortable and I rarely use them, LOL).  They have a very slight hum but it's barely noticeable when silent and completely undetectable when music is playing.
> 
> The HD 800 sounds very nice on the Leben when listening at louder volumes.  Perhaps they just need time to break in, but they sound much brighter than the LCD3.  Particularly with acoustic guitar, the sound is more detailed but a bit too bright.  Soundstage is where the HD 800 clearly defeats the LCD3, not that the LCD3 is weak in that regard but it just can't compete with the renowned soundstage king.  This is all pretty much as I was expecting.  Overall I definitely prefer the LCD3, but I didn't get the HD 800 for the Leben anyway.




The HD800 will always be a lot brighter than LCD3.


----------



## ardilla

sweden said:


> Of all amps I've head with the HD800, the DNA Sonett, Lehmann Black cube, HDVD800,  Trafomatic Head One, Crack, some WOO amps etc, no one is as good a match for sheer musical enjoyment as the Leben with these cans.  Going from the worst pairing which is the Lehman that is an analytical and dry SS amp to the luscious Leben is a revelation.
> The HD800 need some bloom in order to come alive and be suited for music were the end result is to be emotionally moved.
> With the bass boost of the Leben you almost make them an allrounder with genres, oppose to strictly classical and acoustics and some well produced stuff of other genres.




That's what I thought too when I had a brief listen. As a former HD800 owner who sold them because of them being too bright, the Leben made me kinda want to get them back.. Except for the hum. But I have the higher power resistors, which gives more hum.


----------



## atistatic

so ... then have some problems with some headphones the leben cs300xs?


----------



## ardilla

atistatic said:


> so ... then have some problems with some headphones the leben cs300xs?




Yes, some have problems with sensitive high impedance headphones, and some have not. 

The two versions with different headphone resistors might explain some of it. Some experience tube related hum, and some have had a burnt resistor. 

We are not really all sorted out on this. 

If you consider a Leben for high impedance headphones, you should try before you buy. Planars, and low impedance cans generally (?) however seem to be safe.

But the sound is worth it!


----------



## ardilla

For us HUMMERS I started a thread over at the DIY departement in hope of getting some expertise form over there 
  
Magnetic shielding of trafo inside Leben amp:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/686511/magnetic-shielding-of-trafo-inside-leben-amp


----------



## LarsHP

Question #1 to be addressed: Is it 50Hz (or for US and other countries 60Hz) hum or 100Hz (respectively 120Hz) hum. If it's 50 or 60Hz, then the main trafo is most likely the reason for the hum. If it's 100 or 120Hz, then the hum is from the PSU and can be fixed with a choke as earlier posted in this thread. 

I checked my CS300 recently and heard 100Hz hum. I'll double check it, but if this is the case, then I'll get it fixed. If not, away it goes to a new home.


----------



## ardilla

larshp said:


> Question #1 to be addressed: Is it 50Hz (or for US and other countries 60Hz) hum or 100Hz (respectively 120Hz) hum. If it's 50 or 60Hz, then the main trafo is most likely the reason for the hum. If it's 100 or 120Hz, then the hum is from the PSU and can be fixed with a choke as earlier posted in this thread.
> 
> I checked my CS300 recently and heard 100Hz hum. I'll double check it, but if this is the case, then I'll get it fixed. If not, away it goes to a new home.


 
  
 I just cecked running a 50Hz and 100Hz test tone whil using my 300 ohm* HD650*
  
 1) I definetly has got a *50 Hz hum *in the HD650. It is unaffected by the volume. It is like a smooth almost constant bass tone, but waving back and forth, almost only in the right channel. 
  
 2) If I crank the volume very high up - I get a *100 Hz buzz*. More disorted sound. This increases when I ncrease the volume. It is not present enough to notice at normal listening levels
  
 I have now tried a few cans, and the only one that hums is the only one with high impedance. AKGq701, Shure1940, Audeze2 and 3, Hifiman HE500+6, Ultrasone Pro2900, Sennheiser Momentum - none of them have the hum. The Yuin PK2 earbuds have got a very slight hum, clearly less than the HD650 and not really bothering me (Impedance:16±2.5ohm(at 1KHz)Sensitivity:108±3dB(at 1KHz) 
  
 So again - seems that the hum is high impedance related


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I just thought that I'd chime in on my Leben CS600 (even thought this is a CS300 thread). I don't think that there are many CS600 owners on Head-Fi, although I may be mistaken.
  
 In the past I've stated that my CS600 was hum-free when using headphones but I just tried out my HD650 and it also has a hum in the right channel but the hum does not increase with the volume change and is barely noticeable when my apartment is completely silent, which is rare because I live next to a busy street in San Francisco.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> ^ I just thought that I'd chime in on my Leben CS600 (even thought this is a CS300 thread). I don't think that there are many CS600 owners on Head-Fi, although I may be mistaken.
> 
> In the past I've stated that my CS600 was hum-free when using headphones but I just tried out my HD650 and it also has a hum in the right channel but the hum does not increase with the volume change and is barely noticeable when my apartment is completely silent, which is rare because I live next to a busy street in San Francisco.


 
 wow the CS600! Beautiful amp! Its a pity its out of my price range. you still have your cs300? How do they compare?


----------



## kazsud

There is a CS-300F Pre-amp version now which has headphone out as well.
http://lebenhifi.com/products/cs300f.html

What are the lead times for Lebens?


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> wow the CS600! Beautiful amp! Its a pity its out of my price range. you still have your cs300? How do they compare?


 
 It is a nice improvement over the 300 but not x2.
  


kazsud said:


> There is a CS-300F Pre-amp version now which has headphone out as well.
> http://lebenhifi.com/products/cs300f.html
> 
> What are the lead times for Lebens?


 
 About 6-8 weeks.


----------



## Skylab

kazsud said:


> There is a CS-300F Pre-amp version now which has headphone out as well.
> http://lebenhifi.com/products/cs300f.html
> 
> What are the lead times for Lebens?




Leben's product name is confusing but the CS-300F is a full integrated amp, not just a preamp. But it uses different tubes than the CS-300/X/XS


----------



## ardilla

skylab said:


> Leben's product name is confusing but the CS-300F is a full integrated amp, not just a preamp. But it uses different tubes than the CS-300/X/XS




So, does the F use different brands of tubes? Or incompatible tubes?

EDIT: Seems the tubes are incompatibla with the other CS300-versions


> CS-300F is equipped with GE JAN-6197 which was developped for use in Computors and we used this tube for audio purpose for the first time in the world.
> 
> http://lebenhifi.com/products/cs300f.htm


----------



## LarsHP

No, different tube types, not just other brands.

http://lebenhifi.com/products.html


----------



## Raaf

Indeed the 300F is a completely different amp om the inside, you cant swap a EL84 / 6P14P-EB with a JAN-6197


----------



## LarsHP

ardilla said:


> I just cecked running a 50Hz and 100Hz test tone whil using my 300 ohm* HD650*
> 
> 1) I definetly has got a *50 Hz hum *in the HD650. It is unaffected by the volume. It is like a smooth almost constant bass tone, but waving back and forth, almost only in the right channel.
> 
> ...


 

 Strange!
  
 I have checked again, and the humming/buzzing in my CS300 is 100Hz, not 50Hz. It's constant / not affected by volume control.
  
 I don't have high impedance 'phones to check with, but both LCD-2 via headphone output and HE-6 via speaker output (with a 10 Ohm resistor in parallel) has a slight humming/buzzing (primarily in right channel). My headphones are semi-low impedance (around 50 Ohm) and far from sensitive.
  
 The hum/buzz is audible in a completely quiet room when no music is playing as well as in more quiet music passages or with solo instruments.


----------



## ardilla

Hmmm. I had more buzzing with the old tubes. 

It's almost dead silent with all but hd650 for me. 

Maybe you have the burnt resistor problem mentioned earlier?


----------



## chowyeung

Dear all,
 Any one using Denon D7100 with Leben CS300XS? I just bought a Leben CS300XS. I am now thinking to buy a headphone for it. Not sure if there is any 'hum' problem with D7100. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Cheers


----------



## Larryonfire

The new F version has a bit changed soundsignature in the headphone out, just read this review, it´s less dark and lighter sounding. Of cause the tubes matters also.  
  
http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-377&lang=en 
  
  
 And Ardilla you told me in the Auralic thread hum was no problem with the Leben, now we get the whole truth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## LarsHP

chowyeung said:


> Dear all,
> Any one using Denon D7100 with Leben CS300XS? I just bought a Leben CS300XS. I am now thinking to buy a headphone for it. Not sure if there is any 'hum' problem with D7100.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am beginning to think that the answer to some extent depends of two factors that aren't about the headphones you use:
  
 1) How silent or noisy is the place you use the headphones? If you live in a big city like you do (Hong Kong), then the background noise will mask the buzzing/humming som much that you might not hear it. If you live in the countryside - like I do - then you will probably be able to hear humming/buzzing that you wouldn't be able to hear in an apartment in a big city.
  
 2) The electricity from the wall outlet. If there's a lot of electrical noise in that, this may cause the amp to hum/buzz (more). This of course can be fixed partly or fully by using power conditioners etc.
  
 In my case, I can't think of any headphone that will both be so insensitive that you don't hear hum/buzz and at the same time so sensitive that it will reach loud "party" levels or peaks. Well, maybe except HiFiMan HE-5 (or the modded version Code-X) which in sensitivity is between the two headphones that I have: HE-6 and LCD-2. The latter one (91dB/mW) gets loud enough, but I get a low noise. The former (83.5dB/mW) has no noise regardless of volume setting, but doesn't get crazy loud (EDIT: via headphone output) - especially not without distortion in the peaks.
  
 When all this is said, I should add that the hum/buzz/noise I hear is very low, but high enough to annoy me when the room is dead silent.


----------



## Sweden

Lars you don't use the Hifiman adapter with the HE-6 to run it from the taps?


----------



## LarsHP

sweden said:


> Lars you don't use the Hifiman adapter with the HE-6 to run it from the taps?


 

 No, I just use 10 Ohm resistors in parallel. The HiFiMan adapter box also has resistors in series, which eats some of the power output from the amp - and "we" don't like that with a 12W amp ...
  
 Just edited my earlier post ...


----------



## ardilla

larshp said:


> No, I just use 10 Ohm resistors in parallel. The HiFiMan adapter box also has resistors in series, which eats some of the power output from the amp - and "we" don't like that with a 12W amp ...
> 
> Just edited my earlier post ...




Did you/can you post a pic of how you do that?


----------



## ardilla

X


----------



## ardilla

larryonfire said:


> The new F version has a bit changed soundsignature in the headphone out, just read this review, it´s less dark
> 
> And Ardilla you told me in the Auralic thread hum was no problem with the Leben, now we get the whole truth  .




Yeaah, got me there... I did, I never heard about issues with audeze/hifiman except Lars, who might be having supernatural ears


----------



## victorcc

ardilla said:


> Yeaah, got me there... I did, I never heard about issues with audeze/hifiman except Lars, who might be having supernatural ears


 
  
 At least there is someone else:
  


victorcc said:


> Thanks, I am using the same configuration for now in my 230V CS300XS. Before I had, besides the 10 Ohm resistors in paralell, two 3 Ohm resistors connected in series that eliminated the hum but also reduced the dynamics so I came back to the "dynamic hum" situation
> 
> I totally understand your feelings as noise has been the main factor that kept me far from tube amps for a few years until I heard the Leben and liked it so much. Still, I did not expect that the Leben would hum with the HE-6s. It was a disappointment for me too that does not prevent me to enjoy the combination a lot but I would love to get rid of that noise as noise is noise and I would like to feel the music as transparent as possible.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think that there is no easy solution.


----------



## chowyeung

larshp said:


> I am beginning to think that the answer to some extent depends of two factors that aren't about the headphones you use:
> 
> 1) How silent or noisy is the place you use the headphones? If you live in a big city like you do (Hong Kong), then the background noise will mask the buzzing/humming som much that you might not hear it. If you live in the countryside - like I do - then you will probably be able to hear humming/buzzing that you wouldn't be able to hear in an apartment in a big city.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Lars for your reply.
 I live in a less crowded place in Hong Kong. It's fortunate that I can have some quiet moments in my apartment to enjoy music. Thus the "hum" becomes a real issue for me.
 If the "hum" is something to do with the electricity, Oh then I can do little to resolve it. 
 May take risk and buy D7100 next week. Let's see what happens!


----------



## Larryonfire

I have not read all the pages in this thread, but what about using power conditioners or regenerators with a good ground connection to filter out noise or the unstable power flow. Get off the noisy grid, with your own powerplant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ? Not that I have tried one, but a nice power cable setup had a real positive effect in my system with less noise (not talking transformer hum here, more in general) and more clean sound. So a powerplant could be worth considering for giving the humming Leben some fresh homemade juice without lumps of dirt. Maybe borrow one from a dealer to test out. Just brainstorming here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Clayton SF

My system is connect to a PS Audio Power Plant Premier and I still get a bit of hum but not from all of my amps.


----------



## LarsHP

Well, in that case it's not about "dirty" electricity from the wall outlet. Then we may be left with the degree of silence in the room. 

Also, if the hum is a buzz so to speak - meaning that the noise isn't 50 or 60 Hz respectively, but the double frequency, and then we are talking about noise in the PSU which can be fixed with a choke as earlier stated in this thread.


----------



## dminches

This entire thread is only about buzzing and humming. :confused_face:


----------



## Synthax

As I suppose, many of us are sure that this is slight but annoying technological fault of this great amp. It is due to its internal architecture. 
 I think It may be next geal for Leben Team with version Lebec cs300ST for example


----------



## LarsHP

It's the buzz word ATM...

Seriously, I think it's about trying to figure out what is the cause of this noise, and people report different frequencies and conditions with/without the noise. 

Also if you go further back in the thread there's more about the wonderful sound/music it makes.


----------



## ardilla

People keep it despite some hum, thats how good it is =D


----------



## BugleBoy

dminches said:


> This entire thread is only about buzzing and humming.


 

 LOL...it does seem that way!
  
 Maybe it time to reconnect with the nicer things about the Leben 'experience'....


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Hi All,
  
 I'm considering one of these amps in the near future, and I have some questions for owners out there.  I read a review on 6moons that said something to the effect that the HP get the same signal as speakers do.  I don't think this can be right, but maybe I'm mistaken.  Anyone out there comment on the signal that's output to the headphone jack?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mark


----------



## PAM005

Hi Mark,
  
 The Leben CS300-series do use transformer (outputs) to drive the headphones same as with the speakers. But ofcourse with different impedance. Sound- and performance with headphones is amazing. But i think THAT you already know !!!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Ah, right!  That makes sense!  Thanks so much for the quick reply.





  
 So, does changing the impedance switch on the rear of the amp affect the HP signal?


----------



## PAM005

Hi Mark,
  
 No, this switch only works with speakers (4-6-8ohm). You can use different impedances of headphones! But best designed for low-impedances. But my HD800 sounds even great!


----------



## victorcc

Maybe this image (already posted) can help:


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Thanks, victorcc!


----------



## mrtim6

As much as I love my Leben ss300xs with nos tubes I have been enjoying my bakoon HD 5210 mk3 more with TH900 stellar combo - my Leben is used as an amp to drive my Zu Soul Superflys more than as a h/p amp these days. As an amp only draw back is slight low level hum.


----------



## spkrs01

I have bought a 300xs today, and will collect it tomorrow. Will be using this amp with the HD800 primarily.


----------



## kazsud

spkrs01 said:


> I have bought a 300xs today, and will collect it tomorrow. Will be using this amp with the HD800 primarily.



 


Nice, post your impressions when you have some.


----------



## spkrs01

Received the Leben 300sx today.
  
 Have it on my bedside table, sourced by the RWAK120-S and am using a SPC Power cord.
  
 Slight disappointment was the low level hum with the HD800, however, with the bass on +3db the combination is very pleasant indeed. The HD800 filling out nicely sounding quite rich. 
  
 BUT more of a revelation is using the Leben with the TH900. NO hum!!! 
  
I was in two minds previously on the TH900. Never listening for more than 15 mins before storing them. Today once plugged in, I have been listening for 6 hours with breaks. The synergy between the two, for me, is very alluring sounding vivid and lively.
  
It is still early days and I need to get a grip of the sonic character of the Leben....but so far so good!


----------



## Xenophon

Congratulations!  Hope you enjoy it!  Wonder about the hum with the Senns though, no hum with the other low impedance cans you have (the HE-500 for instance)?


----------



## spkrs01

xenophon said:


> Congratulations!  Hope you enjoy it!  Wonder about the hum with the Senns though, no hum with the other low impedance cans you have (the HE-500 for instance)?


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 I have not tried any other cans yet, the TH900 is sounding so good on it...well besides the Abyss for 5 mins, no hiss there either...
  
 When I went through this thread, if my memories serves me well, the hum is predominantly with high impedance cans?


----------



## Xenophon

spkrs01 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have not tried any other cans yet, the TH900 is sounding so good on it...well besides the Abyss for 5 mins, no hiss there either...
> 
> When I went through this thread, if my memories serves me well, the hum is predominantly with high impedance cans?


 
 Yes, that seems to be the case, at least when listening via the headphone out and using efficient headphones if memory serves.


----------



## dminches

spkrs01 said:


> It is still early days and I need to get a grip of the sonic character of the Leben....but so far so good!


 
  
 Enjoy.
  
 The top of the Leben can get pretty warm, or hot, so be careful about leaving anything on there.


----------



## spkrs01

Quick update.
  
 I have integrated the Leben 300xs into my system, and the sonics emanating is truly outstanding with the TH900. My favorite amp by a big margin that I have heard with the TH900. The vividness and colourful nature of the TH900 is fully realized without the sharpness or the somewhat bloated bass...........


----------



## Skylab

Very nice! Looks great. 

I've been using my Leben with speakers for the most part recently and in a small room the CS-300 is just luscious with speakers...it's even driving my somewhat difficult Infinity Kappa 6's right now very well, given that I'm keeping it at a pretty sane listening level. Beautiful music flowing!


----------



## spkrs01

skylab said:


> Very nice! Looks great.
> 
> I've been using my Leben with speakers for the most part recently and in a small room the CS-300 is just luscious with speakers...it's even driving my somewhat difficult Infinity Kappa 6's right now very well, given that I'm keeping it at a pretty sane listening level. Beautiful music flowing!


 
  
 Thanks very much! 
  
 I bought the Leben without much reference nor research. But after purchase and reading this thread completely, I knew I was onto a winner seeing _*your*_ enthusiasm for it...........


----------



## Makube

Hi everyone! I just got my Leben CS-300, bought a used one. When testing it with my speakers, I found that the bass boost control made a scraping noise while switching it to 3db and 6db. It also made the volume level differ from speaker to speaker, increasing overall volume on one speaker at 3 db etc. Any idea of what the reason for this could be? 

Best regards,
Makube


----------



## ardilla

The scraping might just be that there is bad contact due to dirty connections (dust and stuff gather in the strangest places). Don't know if that can explain the imbalance though. Try some electrical cleaner spray if you can find a way of spraying into the switch.


----------



## Makube

Thanks! Feels incredibly irritating. The previous owner only usel it for headphones and probably hasnt tried the bass boost... If it is a real problem with the hardware, would it be possible to fix it with the hela of an engineer used to tube gear? Wouldnt want the leben to sound different after having someone repar it. Since the sound goes through the bass boost, would the problem affect the normal set sound in time if worsened?


----------



## Raaf

The sound would not be affected if the electronic components are not changed .
 But as the switch is most likeley the problem there is no need to change any resistor or cap .
 You could first try to operate the switch 50 times or so, if that doesn't help try some ( mild ! ) spray as ardilla suggested, the switch is easy to acces if you unscrew the top cover.
 If all that doesn''t help, you have to take it out and have it utrasonic cleaned or replace it.


----------



## migasson

Has people run orthos like the LCD-X off the headphone output? Or used the speaker taps?
  
 What does it sound like together?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I've never heard the LCD-X, but I have heard the Leben with the LCD-3, and the combination is terrific. I used them only from the headphone out, and for the LCD headphones this is plenty.


----------



## LarsHP

Speaker out will give you more power, but also (more) noise. I even use headphone out with my HE-6 ...


----------



## Xenophon

larshp said:


> Speaker out will give you more power, but also (more) noise. I even use headphone out with my HE-6 ...


 
 Errr...does that actually produce good sound on the HE-6?  What's the output on the headphone tap?
  
 side note:  I don't own a Leben but am fascinated by this congregation of what I'd call 'the golden sound masochists'.  It must be really special for you guys to put up with the deficiencies such as the noise floor on the speaker out (obviously mainly an issue with headphones), low power, technical issues....  I could purchase a used 300 model for 1500 EUR (been on sale for a long time on a Belgian site) and admit to being curious but it's just a bit too risky for me as I listen exclusively with headphones and love my HE-6.


----------



## migasson

skylab said:


> I've never heard the LCD-X, but I have heard the Leben with the LCD-3, and the combination is terrific. I used them only from the headphone out, and for the LCD headphones this is plenty.


 
 Nice. Thanks! Do you know what the output impedance is? Just concerned the X's bass will go to muck with it's 22 ohm impedance..!


----------



## Skylab

The headphone output is a 32 ohm secondary winding from the main output transformer.


----------



## migasson

skylab said:


> The headphone output is a 32 ohm secondary winding from the main output transformer.


 
 Thank you!
  
 I'd imagine it's worth listening to it first in that case! Just that there is a second hand one for sale here in Australia.. I won't take the risk until I've heard it first... 
  
 Regards.


----------



## 2359glenn

skylab said:


> The headphone output is a 32 ohm secondary winding from the main output transformer.


 

 Are you sure ?


----------



## Skylab

That's what I had been told by Leben. You're the engineer - does the schematic say otherwise?


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> Errr...does that actually produce good sound on the HE-6?  What's the output on the headphone tap?
> 
> side note:  I don't own a Leben but am fascinated by this congregation of what I'd call 'the golden sound masochists'.  It must be really special for you guys to put up with the deficiencies such as the *noise floor on the speaker out* *(obviously mainly an issue with headphones*), low power, technical issues....  I could purchase a used 300 model for 1500 EUR (been on sale for a long time on a Belgian site) and admit to being curious but it's just a bit too risky for me as I listen exclusively with headphones and love my HE-6.


 
  
 I have noissues with noise or hum on the leven ezcept when using high impedance phones. Low impedance phones, even the 110dB Sennheiser Momerntum are quiet. 
  
 I tried it with the Klipsch RF8 rated at 98dB @ 2.83V / 1m and had no hum there either. 
  
I think the hum from the Leben varies a lot with mains and tubes, since others report otherwise. But I think that is a minority. .


----------



## Xenophon

Thanks for the feedback!   Anyway, I have a FirstWatt F3 on the way to try with my HE-6 as a dedicated amp (long story, bottom line is that I want to find out if the extra power on tap really makes a difference vs my V800/V200 combo) and if I'd want I could always hook that one up with high efficiency speakers such as Lowthers + with a couple of resistors I'll also be able to use it with my HE-500 and Senn.  
  
 Still fascinated by the Leben somehow but it's just too big a risk to purchase blind especially as (at least in Belgium) it seems to be an illiquid asset.


----------



## LarsHP

xenophon said:


> Errr...does that actually produce good sound on the HE-6?  What's the output on the headphone tap?
> 
> side note:  I don't own a Leben but am fascinated by this congregation of what I'd call 'the golden sound masochists'.  It must be really special for you guys to put up with the deficiencies such as the noise floor on the speaker out (obviously mainly an issue with headphones), low power, technical issues....  I could purchase a used 300 model for 1500 EUR (been on sale for a long time on a Belgian site) and admit to being curious but it's just a bit too risky for me as I listen exclusively with headphones and love my HE-6.


 
 No, it doesn't produce good sound. It sounds eyewetting sublime with classical, vocal and soft genres!
 I think the output from HPO is about 1 Watt on my unit, which is enough for moderate to moderately loud levels, but not for very loud listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

skylab said:


> That's what I had been told by Leben. You're the engineer - does the schematic say otherwise?


 

 No I don't know if the new ones are different but that schematic shows a 4 , 6 and 8 ohm taps on the output transformer
 and the headphone jack is fed off one of these through a 270 ohm resistor.


----------



## Skylab

So that sounds like the "newer" ones which I had heard used a dropping resistor. I asked Leben about the headphone out quite a few years ago so the design may well have changed.


----------



## apconhf

Has anyone tried the Leben with the LCD-X? I know people just rave about the LCD-2 combo but I haven't heard much about their older sibling. I'm assuming it'll be amazing of course but it's bizarre that there's not much written about it. Trying to pick between the two currently and any thoughts would be crazy helpful


----------



## Henmyr

Hi. I did anyone try to add a switch to change the resistor values?

I have low level noise in the right channel with HD650/600 but it's completely silent with Grado RS1. The sound is excellent with the RS1 and I don't want to lose that, so I'm considering adding a switch.
There is no good space for a second headphone output I think.

Would it be possible to flip that kind of switch while the amp is on or would it have to be turned off?

Thanks


----------



## Henmyr

Doh!It was a long time since I've read this page and saw now that there is page after page of "noise" talk without a perfect solution it seems.


----------



## Xenophon

Yes, and that's the main reason I've definitely decided not to get one, despite liking the design of the device and (mostly) unanimity on the sound quality via speakers.  But paying >3k EUR new for a device with a headphone out that's under-powered for most of my cans and that carries a very real risk of producing hum when using the speaker posts directly....no way, that's just too much.  Will never use it with speakers either.  Too bad because I saw one (believe it was the 600 though) in Tokyo last week and it looked drop-dead gorgeous imo.
  
 Edit:  To be fair, it was never designed  with the intention of driving low-efficiency headphones like my HifiMan cans from the speaker posts of course, causing an output impedance mismatch.  But unfortunately using it to drive headphones would be my sole purpose so I decided to go the FirstWatt F5 clone path instead.


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> Yes, and that's the main reason I've definitely decided not to get one, despite liking the design of the device and (mostly) unanimity on the sound quality via speakers.  But paying >3k EUR new for a device* with a headphone out that's under-powered for most of my cans* and that carries a very real risk of producing hum when using the speaker posts directly....no way, that's just too much.  Will never use it with speakers either.  Too bad because I saw one (believe it was the 600 though) in Tokyo last week and it looked drop-dead gorgeous imo.
> 
> Edit:  To be fair, it was never designed  with the intention of driving low-efficiency headphones like my HifiMan cans from the speaker posts of course, causing an output impedance mismatch.  But unfortunately using it to drive headphones would be my sole purpose so I decided to go the FirstWatt F5 clone path instead.


 
  
 I have no issue with hum except on high impedance cans (like the HD800).
  
 It is however, my all time favorite with the HE500 - and it drives the HE-6 very good from the speaker tabs via HE adapter (unless you are into hardcore and dubstep) so I wouldn't say it underpoweres most of your cans ,)
  
 There are only a few users that experience hum issues, so I wouldn't be _too _anxious. Listening to it with the LCD-3 and it is simply gorgeous =)


----------



## Xenophon

Ardilla, people like you make my bankers anxious.  But it's much appreciated.  For my music it's simple at least as I listen to 98% classical and the remainder jazz & blues on those rare sultry nights in Europe when I need an excuse to sip a good malt and sweat it out with the glowing tubes next to me while sucking on a fat cuban cigar and zero probability of anyone needing my attention. I use a humble customised DV 337 with a variety of tubes with the 500 and agree that those are simply made for a good tube amplifier (as are the HD-800 imo).
  
 Coming summer I'm shifting back to Europe for a couple of years -cheers to no more 120+ nights/year spent in hotel rooms, planes and airports- and then I'll take the time to thoroughly audition a couple of Leben models.  It's irrational but I really do dig the looks of 'm. But whatever happens, I'll want to do the auditioning and if it sounds right, take that particular unit and that one only with me.  I had the opportunity to purchase a used 300 (base model) a couple of months back at 1500 EUR but didn't want to chance it as there was no way to audition nor to return after purchasing if there would have been a problem.


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> Ardilla, people like *you make my bankers anxious*.  But it's much appreciated.  For my music it's simple at least as I listen to 98% classical and the remainder jazz & blues on those rare sultry nights in Europe when I need an excuse to sip a good malt and sweat it out with the glowing tubes next to me while sucking on a fat cuban cigar and zero probability of anyone needing my attention. I use a humble customised DV 337 with a variety of tubes with the 500 and agree that those are simply made for a good tube amplifier (as are the HD-800 imo).
> 
> Coming summer I'm shifting back to Europe for a couple of years -cheers to no more 120+ nights/year spent in hotel rooms, planes and airports- and then I'll take the time to thoroughly audition a couple of Leben models.  It's irrational but I really do dig the looks of 'm. But whatever happens, I'll want to do the *auditioning and if it sounds right, take that particular unit and that one only with me*.  I had the opportunity to purchase a used 300 (base model) a couple of months back at 1500 EUR but didn't want to chance it as there was no way to audition nor to return after purchasing if there would have been a problem.


 
  
 Haha - well - you should never spend more on audio than you can afford. A great system doesnt have to break the bank, and you definetly don't always get a subjectively more joyful experience from spending more. 
  
 Auditioning at home is always a preferred option, but then again - if you get a great 2nd hand deal - you can alays pass it on to someone else 
  
 BTW - aesthetics is not irrational ,)


----------



## MoatsArt

Subbed


----------



## surf282

I am driving magnepan 1.7 with leben 300 and it is like listening to lcd2 but wih speakers


----------



## Skylab

Wow I'm surprised that the Leben is up to the task of driving the Maggies. Both are great products for sure! You feel the Leben has enough power for 1.7's?


----------



## surf282

My leben cs 300 is the Japan 100 v version with voltage step down. So it probably put out less power than the cs300 sx. My listening room is only 11'x 25' with acoustic treatment. Most of the time the volume dial is at 10 to 11 o'clock position for proper loundness. I bought the 1.7 because I wanted the sound of the LCD2 in a scaled up version of speakers. The combination of 1.7 and leben is fantastic. The clarity, definition and liquidity is addicting. The low end extension and resolution is excellent. Never feel a need for sub. I think a 20'x 30' room would be ideal for this set up but here in Honolulu the realestate space come a premium.


----------



## Skylab

Very cool! I'm sure that sounds great.


----------



## surf282

I have used prima prologue one amp(el34 tube) driving the 1.7 with good result but the Leben has better low end definition and overall transparency compared to the prima prologue amp. The prima has more power and head room on spec but the leben has better sound quality watt for watt. I also preferred the tone of the Leben probably due to the difference between el 34 and el 84.


----------



## keph




----------



## zoroastra

My Leben hums with very sensitive speakers that amplify the bass so that the hum is exaggerated. 
Is there anyone out there who has heard a hum through speakers that finds it not there with LCD3s? 
In other words, would I be better off buying LCD3 headphones for the amp, or selling it and buying a different amplifier (say the Jadis I35) and listen over my speakers still (assuming the Jadis won't humm too).
  
Mark


----------



## ardilla

zoroastra said:


> My Leben hums with very sensitive speakers that amplify the bass so that the hum is exaggerated.
> Is there anyone out there who has heard a hum through speakers that finds it not there with LCD3s?
> In other words, would I be better off buying LCD3 headphones for the amp, or selling it and buying a different amplifier (say the Jadis I35) and listen over my speakers still (assuming the Jadis won't humm too).
> 
> Mark


 
  
 My impression is that the hum varies - may be due to local AC conditions. 
  
 However, it seems that is prone to humming with high impedance headphones. Haven't tried many speakers, but y unit didn't have a noticable  hum with the Klipsch RF82 (98dB) http://www.klipsch.com/rf-82-ii-floorstanding-speaker - which was a great pairing, I must add - abolutely reccomended as a budget speaker option for the Leben. 
  
 However - with very sensitive speakers (>100), most amps will have a hiss or a hum. It is also relevant what impedance your speakers are - maybe you should try some with loer impedance?


----------



## LarsHP

When I had the CS300, I got slight hum/noise from my 91dB speakers as well as from LCD-2 (headphone output). I think the hum/noise may be caused by "dirty power" from the wall outlet, but I had hum/noise even when using a power conditioner. 

If the hum is 50-60Hz it's from the amps main trafo, but if it's 100-120Hz it can allegedly be fixed by mounting a choke as earlier described in this thread.


----------



## jmm007

Hello
 Other than purchasing one used, is there a US distributor? 
 thanks


----------



## Skylab

The Lebel website still lists the US Distributor as Tone Imports 646-425-7800 jhalpern@mac.com 

I found them a bit difficult to deal with since they wouldn't sell me one directly even though the closest dealer to me was 7 hours away in Cleveland. So I bought mine used.


----------



## jmm007

skylab said:


> The Lebel website still lists the US Distributor as Tone Imports 646-425-7800 jhalpern@mac.com
> 
> I found them a bit difficult to deal with since they wouldn't sell me one directly even though the closest dealer to me was 7 hours away in Cleveland. So I bought mine used.


 
  
 Thanks for the information. It sounds like a wonderful amp. However, for 3k I don't want to deal with the hum issue. For that price, I want all the phones I own to work hum-free.


----------



## Xenophon

Anecdotally but I read a critical opinion about the 300 XS on stereo.net.au
  
 The reviewer and an audiophile friend of his were seriously underwhelmed by its sound, even after rolling tubes etc.  Then they put a pre-amp between the CD-transport and the Leben that brought down the output (2V I assume) of the CD to closer to the unit's specified 600 mV sensitivity and things cleared up dramatically.
  
 See here:  http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/48804-leben-cs300xs-a-dissenting-opinion/
  
 No idea if this is somehow related to the hum issue which I'd instinctively chalk down to either the power supply or the transformer but perhaps someone more knowledgeable can chime in.  But I agree that for the price the sound should be hum-free and pretty darn good.


----------



## msg1979

Hello in this thread!
  
 I´ve been spending days reading it. 138 pages is a lot   Good stuff inhere...
  
  
 Here is a picture of my cs300 from 2006 and my cs300xs from 2014. I took them today. I wanted to upgrade to a cs300xs but I can't get used to the more "contrasted colors" of the front. The green color is much more green, and the gold is more shiny gold on the cs300xs compared to the old cs300.
 I couldn't find anything in this thread about the colour differences, so just want to pt it inhere 
  
 Personally I prefer the CS300. I think it much more aesthetic and old school looking compared to the "bling bling" cs300xs. 
 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/MSGDiller/WP_20140507_16_34_13_Pro.jpg
  
 Here is the back panel... the cs300 is also my personally favorite here
 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/MSGDiller/WP_20140507_16_35_59_Pro.jpg
  
 Here the top panel:
 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/MSGDiller/WP_20140507_17_02_45_Pro.jpg
  
  
 Sorry about the links, my account don't have permission to use the "image button"


----------



## ardilla

Leben CS300XS playing with no load? No problem according to Leben customer support when I asked 
. Assuring to know you can swap headphones without having to turn it off 

"It is no problem to power on without connecting speakers or headphone."


----------



## Raaf

Forget your cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My Leben Cs 300 drives Seas Exotic F8 drivers in open baffles ...... It's great !!
 I don't know what idiot concluded speakers should be placed in boxes, but he's so wrong, take my word for that !
  


 My setup :
 PC with Debian Wheezy
 Deadbeef player
 ESI Juli@ Soundcard
 Coax out into Audiolab M-Dac
 Leben CS300 ( choke mod ) with 2 RCA 6211 driver tubes and 4 Reactor 6P14P EB power tubes
  
 I Call it Magic , yes I do !


----------



## ardilla

If you sit close enough, it might qualify as headphones, in a k1000 way 

How is the bass in those?


----------



## mrtim6

msg1979 said:


> Hello in this thread!
> 
> I´ve been spending days reading it. 138 pages is a lot   Good stuff inhere...
> 
> ...





I think both amps look very nice I have the blingy one. Raaf I like the Leben with speakers too. I use it to drive my zu super soulflys. I tried the Leben with my newly acquired AKG 712 I have to say they are a match made in heaven. Lots of great synergy more so I perceive than with my TH900 which really shine on my Bakoon (Jap version) h/p amp.


----------



## Raaf

@Ardilla,
 The bass is not bad at all but I use a REL Q201 active sub for more bottom.
 At the moment i'm working on a notch filter for a flatter response, I did spend quite some time to end up with a (dsp) EQ setting that I was happy with
 :
 Alltough not very practical in size, I love the sound from those huge baffles and I was suprised to hear so much more details than I was used to with boxed speakers .
  
@mrtim6 ,
 I never heard of Zu Soul Superfly's but they sure look promising .
 I assume they got the aditional tweeter right
 I was experimenting with aditional tweeters with Philips AD5200M drivers but I never succeded in getting it right in a open baffle.
  
 Anyway, as far as the Leben CS300 concerns, I never had a better amp and have no intentions to look for one either .


----------



## msg1979

Hello.
  
 I need some opinions here!
  
 Right now I´m testing Dacs and Cd players on my Leben cs300 (with phillips mini watts) and Proac D15. I want to fine tune my sound and was hoping a couple of units could do he trick
  
 I´m totally confused..
  
  
 I´m using
 - Metrum Octave mini nos (they compare this one to EMM dacs and dacs 10 times more expensive!)
 - Metrum Quad mini nos
 - Rega Apollo 35th anniversary edition
 - Pioneer pds-702s (my old cd player from my teen years)
  
 I have tested with a/b comparison in 2 inputs
 I have tested whole tracks then changed
 I have tested different music, from good acoustic to electronically and complex music
  
 Tested Dac vs Dac, Cd player vs Cd player, Cd Player vs Dac, Dacs with both cd players as transport... Done that the last two days...
  
  
 I Hear no difference at all. No matter what unit I use I have the same sound.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The perspective, definement, 3d imaging, sound, warmth are the same no matter what I do! My Girlfriend that I often use to put words on the sound she listens too, can't hear any difference too..
  
 I really don't get it.. When I changed to the mini watts I heard a difference immediately.. Sound was more floating, more defined, more smooth...But Chaging between these 4 units and I can't hear anything difference..
  
 I took one of the dacs to a friends home. He uses a setup with Kef 107 with a Proton amp and a Denen DVD player (one of the expensives ones)
 We both heard a difference, the Metrum Quad was more smooth and defined than the Denon!
  
 But in My setup.. Nothing happens...
  
 The good news is that I don't have to spend money, because I can use my pioneer
 The bad is that I really don't get it!
  
 Can anyone give me some inputs?


----------



## Raaf

I have noticed that effect too, not as strong as you describe, but the differences are more subtile when changing input gear compared to transistor amps where there's more difference noticeable  .
 The reason for that ?
 I have no clue .


----------



## Xenophon

Because with most tube amps the inherent inaccuracies and variation in reproduction are such that any more subtle variation such as between sources are by comparison so small that they get lost in the background.


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> Because with most tube amps the inherent inaccuracies and variation in reproduction are such that any more subtle variation such as between sources are by comparison so small that they get lost in the background.


 
  
 ... as a solid state kind of guy would have put it..... 
  
 I generally find it harder to hear the difference between dacs on headphones than with speakers. I guess it has something to do with the listening room, dampening effects etc.


----------



## Xenophon

ardilla said:


> ... as a solid state kind of guy would have put it.....
> 
> I generally find it harder to hear the difference between dacs on headphones than with speakers. I guess it has something to do with the listening room, dampening effects etc.


 
 Actually, I'm not negatively disposed towards well-built tube amps.  I've been in Europe for the past week and have 3 good ss amps and my modest DV 337 tube amp here.  Guess which one has been getting most head-time.  But hey, it's a fact of life that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction/amplification, even well built tube amps are an order of magnitude less 'accurate' than good ss.  If they sound better is a totally different discussion, my point was that if you're trying to distinguish between ripples in a pond (small variations between ss sources) then it's easier if you're not standing in a gale (higher distortion with a tube amp).
  
 I like tubes, busy picking an opt for a 45 or 6L6GC-based SE amp I'm going to build this summer to drive my HE-6, but there's no sense in denying the light of day.


----------



## ardilla

Lots of people would agree with you, and quite a lot would disagree... 

But that aside, tell us more about thethe tube amp for the HE6? The HE 6 can sound gorgeous with the Leben on some music, but often gets too soft.


----------



## Xenophon

Well, at the moment I'm using a suboptimal tube solution with my HE-6, being my DV 337 tube amp with Tung Sol 6SJ7 driver tubes and a 7236 power tube, it's a dual mono design and output is stated by the manufacturer as >2 WPC but nothing about into which load so pretty meaningless.  I know the trend for the HE-6 is to use much, much more but believe me, it nevertheless sounds nice and listening to classical music at moderate levels, the volume switches are currently at 10 'o clock,  anything more than 12 would imo be too much for most people.  I purchased the amp used a year ago and it's beyond any doubt the best audio investment I ever made, financially speaking (paid it 400 USD, customised and upgraded with higher specced components).
  
 I have to tell you that the way I like my sound is highly dependent on my mood and the music (virtually only classical, I should be ashamed to be so picky even within one genre) I'm listening to.  Small violin ensembles or solo violin / piano pieces I like a slightly warm and more relaxed sound.  Large ensembles or fast-paced music I like crisp and tight.  But what I value above all is clarity.  If this sounds like I should really listen to ss amps, well..no.  A tube amp brings something extra (maybe 2nd order harmonics, who knows) that ss doesn't give me.  But what I absolutely dislike is back ground humming or a loose, unfocused, 'syrupy' sound. Some people really like this, I respect their opinion but to me that's not the sound of tubes, it's the sound of a badly designed tube amp.
  
 So I'm going to try and build myself something...ordered the Tubelab pcb boards for their Simple SE amp and the standard SE, more info http://tubelab.com/designs/ The SSE is just a warmup.  Ideally I'd like to run the amp with a 45 power tube as that presents the sound in a way that I like it:  clear with a slightly forward/warm midrange.  But I don't think it'll deliver sufficient power, at least not without pushing it over its limits.  Next candidates are the 2A3 power tubes (essentially a double 45 in one enclosure) OR I might go the whole hog and select a 300B power tube.  But I'm an amateur builder and still fretting over the options.  Every choice entails a compromise and a different choice of power transfo, driver tubes and certainly output transformers to get the best sound without using feedback.  What does't help either is that all those output transfos are geared toward an 8 Ohm (an occasional black sheep 16 Ohm or one 32 Ohm thrown in) load.  If you start considering the load that the tube prefers, the headphone...there's a million variables involved and one drowns in the details so I guess it's time to stop running all kinds of simulations and just to build a couple of things and see if they produce glorious sound or black smoke.  I'll stay away from >2.5 kUSD Lundahl silver wound opt's until I've got a stable design running.  This is all about the power tubes, I didn't even touch upon the drivers or the merits of tube vs ss rectification.
  
 I'll let you know how it all works out, it's gonna be a long, hot summer.


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> ...
> I'll let you know how it all works out, it's gonna be a long, hot summer.


 
 Thanks for sharing - please let us know how you're gonna work this out. Have you visited this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones ? Those guys are totally dedicated, haha - but someone running tubes for th HE6 would be a welcome variation ,)


----------



## Xenophon

I read the amps that drive the HE-6 end to end . Twice. Lots of wisdom, lots of speculation. After playing around with speaker amps myself, my personal conclusion is that (with ss) it can be done but it's not just a matter of throwing watts at the cans, I'm convinced that many people are actually getting inferior results vs when they'd drive them with an 'underpowered' headphone amp. My V200 with 2.75 W into 50 ohm gets them to within a very small distance of where my Pioneer receiver or F5 get them. The power thing with the HE-6 is a bit overhyped imo but oh well... A lot also depends on the music one listens to and the volume.

Wil keep you posted on the tube project, building 'a' tube amp that will drive them is not very hard but I'm looking to a custom made design, specifically for theHE-6. Audio notes kits offer an interesting buildefs kit for the HE-6 but I'd like to go for a different approach (opt SET, no feedback). But if you start tinkering you quickly end up in the area where everything starts to matter and it takes a lot of time, not to mention cash if you decide to go flat out with stuff like silver wire ougput transformers etc. Not to mention ending on the wrong end of the diminishing returns curve. Will keep you posted after consrruction of a first-cheap-prototype.


----------



## zoroastra

xenophon said:


> Actually, I'm not negatively disposed towards well-built tube amps.  I've been in Europe for the past week and have 3 good ss amps and my modest DV 337 tube amp here.  Guess which one has been getting most head-time.  But hey, it's a fact of life that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction/amplification, even well built tube amps are an order of magnitude less 'accurate' than good ss.  If they sound better is a totally different discussion, my point was that if you're trying to distinguish between ripples in a pond (small variations between ss sources) then it's easier if you're not standing in a gale (higher distortion with a tube amp).
> 
> I like tubes, busy picking an opt for a 45 or 6L6GC-based SE amp I'm going to build this summer to drive my HE-6, but there's no sense in denying the light of day.


 

 Dear Mr Xenophon,
 I agree with you, that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction...then the SS amp is more accurate. And as nearly all signals today are compressed, boosted, digitally enhanced one-dimentional contrived noise that is in no way real to life and contains absolutely no presence, then yes, that crap is more accurately amplified by SS. Valves may add even order harmonics in the form of distortion, which may round out some of the digital nasties making them less irritating, but for presence, and a relaxing listen, try old vinyl records recorded before 1972, played over a reasonable valve system (front and back) through good speakers. Compare such, if you want, to a CD of the same music played through the finest CD player and SS amplification you can find, Krell for instance, and you will discover that modern digital recording (compression and dubbing too) more than the type of amplifcation, is responsible for the majority of complaints we have with our systems.  "There's no sense in denying the light of day".


----------



## Xenophon

zoroastra said:


> Dear Mr Xenophon,
> I agree with you, that if all you want is perfect signal reproduction...then the SS amp is more accurate. And as nearly all signals today are compressed, boosted, digitally enhanced one-dimentional contrived noise that is in no way real to life and contains absolutely no presence, then yes, that crap is more accurately amplified by SS. Valves may add even order harmonics in the form of distortion, which may round out some of the digital nasties making them less irritating, but for presence, and a relaxing listen, try old vinyl records recorded before 1972, played over a reasonable valve system (front and back) through good speakers. Compare such, if you want, to a CD of the same music played through the finest CD player and SS amplification you can find, Krell for instance, and you will discover that modern digital recording (compression and dubbing too) more than the type of amplifcation, is responsible for the majority of complaints we have with our systems.  "There's no sense in denying the light of day".


 
 You're preaching to the choir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I listen almost exclusively to classical (and some blues/jazz).  Most classical recordings are fortunately no victim to the loudness wars and dynamic range is typically large, as is the attention paid to the recording quality.  I admittedly don't have a turntable and vinyl but do own a largish (digital) collection of  remastered 78 rpm recordings dating back to the '30s.  When I say 'remastered' I don't mean 'doctored', it's all there, warts and all.  To the point that even on my tube amp I simply can't listen to it with my HD-800 and enjoy the music.  About harmonics, btw:  it's generally said that even harmonics are pleasant and uneven unpleasant.  But people like Nelson Pass who did some informal testing are adamant that it's simply a question of some people preferring even order over uneven (third) harmonic, with the uneven sounding generally more crisp and 'direct'.  As long as you stay away from significant fractions of higher (un)even harmonics you should be fine.   Tubes favour even harmonics but a lot comes into play, the load line and tube selected can have a dramatic effect on the % of 2nd harmonic distortion for instance.  I'm drowning in this stuff at the moment.
  
 I'll don my hair shirt, shave my head and sprinkle ashes on it guys.  Truly, honest to whatever deity you believe in:  I've nothing against tubes, my initial remark was purely technical.


----------



## Abstraction

Okay, Positivity. I have not read this entire thread. My CS300 with HD800 does not hum.
 I live in Brooklyn, which is noisy, but late at night, tucked in behind Prospect Park, as I am here,
 it is quiet.


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> I read the amps that drive the HE-6 end to end . Twice. Lots of wisdom, lots of speculation. After playing around with speaker amps myself, my personal conclusion is that (with ss) *it can be done but it's not just a matter of throwing watts at the cans, I'm convinced that many people are actually getting inferior results vs when they'd drive them with an 'underpowered' headphone amp*. My V200 with 2.75 W into 50 ohm gets them to within a very small distance of where my Pioneer receiver or F5 get them. *The power thing with the HE-6 is a bit overhyped imo *but oh well... A lot also depends on the music one listens to and the volume.
> 
> Wil keep you posted on the tube project, building 'a' tube amp that will drive them is not very hard but I'm looking to a custom made design, specifically for theHE-6. Audio notes kits offer an interesting buildefs kit for the HE-6 but I'd like to go for a different approach (opt SET, no feedback). But if you start tinkering you quickly end up in the area where everything starts to matter and it takes a lot of time, not to mention cash if you decide to go flat out with stuff like silver wire ougput transformers etc. Not to mention ending on the wrong end of the diminishing returns curve. Will keep you posted after consrruction of a first-cheap-prototype.


 
  
 Totally agree =)


----------



## ardilla

abstraction said:


> Okay, Positivity. I have not read this entire thread. My CS300 with HD800 does not hum.
> I live in Brooklyn, which is noisy, but late at night, tucked in behind Prospect Park, as I am here,
> it is quiet.


 
  
 Great to hear that =) Do you know what version you have - what output resistors in the HP circuit?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

skylab said:


> The Lebel website still lists the US Distributor as Tone Imports 646-425-7800 jhalpern@mac.com
> 
> I found them a bit difficult to deal with since they wouldn't sell me one directly even though the closest dealer to me was 7 hours away in Cleveland. So I bought mine used.


 
 I had a somewhat different experience.  I found them easy to deal with.  I live in the SF Bay Area and Tone Imports put me in contact with a dealer in LA.  Through the LA dealer I had the amp shipped to me directly from Japan.  It only took about 5 weeks from first contact to unboxing the amp.  As ever, YMMV.


----------



## weitn

Unboxing of Leben CS600 for those who are interested.
  
https://andyhangout.wordpress.com/2014/08/04/unboxing-a-new-leben-cs600-stereo-amplifier/
  
 Edit: Does CS300 has similar packaging?


----------



## msg1979

Yes. Same box but smaller.
 No box for power chord though


----------



## msg1979

Does anyone know if a Leben cs300 will work with ecc82?
 I know the gain will be like 70% so the volume must be set higher or?
 But will auto bias and all the techs fit so I won't break anything?


----------



## weitn

msg1979 said:


> Yes. Same box but smaller.
> No box for power chord though


 
  
 The power chord is included right?


----------



## weitn

> Does anyone know if a Leben cs300 will work with ecc82?
> I know the gain will be like 70% so the volume must be set higher or?
> But will auto bias and all the techs fit so I won't break anything?


 
  
 It is better to ask Leben just to be sure. Mr Yoshi Hontani email is y-hontani@musonpro.com. Please keep us posted when you find out.


----------



## weitn

Photos of Sovtek 6L6WGC vacuum tubes in CS600. They are taken in total darkness.
  
https://andyhangout.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/sovtek-6l6wgc-vacuum-tubes


----------



## msg1979

The power chord was included in my cs300 and cs300x


----------



## vert

If anyone wants to try a good solid state headphone amp, check out the Bakoon HPA-21.
  
 I read on the Bakoon thread that Skylab didn't care for it, but it does keep up with the Leben.
  
 It's the first headphone amp I've heard that didn't make me want to run back to the Leben.


----------



## MartinM

Hi guys,
 Been along time away!.. you know the usual story, loads of time on the forum when you have money in your pockets and less in between!? 
  
 So... please save me from 140 pages of reading!..
  
 Am running the CS300 with LCD2's for a year plus now... awesome!!..
  
 After running some iem's for a while the only thing I wonder is, if I am missing a little detail or mid to top end ?
  
 I am of an age where I cannot hear anything over 15k ( probably lower ) and have a specific problem at 4K.... result of music in my eyes for 8+ hours a day for 6 years at work!... be warned!...
  
 Anyway, I wondered if a little tube rolling might add something?
  
 Can you point me in the right direction? / give me a few suggestions?
  
 Thanks guys! 
  
 P.S no hum here!!


----------



## Skylab

What driver tubes are in it now?

If you have deep pockets, look for some Raytheon windmill getter 5751's


----------



## mrtim6

skylab said:


> What driver tubes are in it now?
> 
> If you have deep pockets, look for some Raytheon windmill getter 5751's




+1 windmill getters are superb possibly my favorite enjoyed them little more than my bugle boys


----------



## MartinM

Thanks guys ...
  
 Not sure what I current have in there... the stock ones!...
  
 At least this gives me a starting point for discussions... have email'd audiotubes to see what they can suggest, I have used them in the past and they seemed pretty good.
 Any other good NOS suppliers?
  
 One more stupid question, if you don't mind...
  
 I assume the chances of getting a matched quad are remote so 2 matched pairs is what I need....
  
 What if 1 tube blows.... do I get another matched pair?
  
 Thanks guys... it's good to be back


----------



## Skylab

Reasonably well matched quads of 6BQ5 /EL84 tubes aren't that hard to come by, although not super cheap. As for what to do when one tube blows, that's just a matter of how much of a perfectionist you are. At least replacing the pair for one channel is a good idea.


----------



## Abstraction

I have had no reason to inquire about resistors and such.  I am not really
 an audiophile. I just dig music. Pure Music on a Mac Mini, through an Empirical
 Audio Turbo and a Berkley Alpha DAC, to the Leben CS300 (the one with
 no X's or whatever) delivers the goods to HD800 cans.  It also does beautifully
 driving my Rosinante SIgnature IIs--little known speakers, and now rather old,
 that will compete withanything I have heard in the $6000-$8000 range.


----------



## MartinM

I am such a muppet....!....
  
 I didn't realise this amp has the 5751 feeding 2 EL84's!... oops! ( per channel )
 Fitted my Siemens Triple mica 5751's and the difference is staggering... so much more detail / space... tonally more 'musical' can I say and they are not even broke in yet!
  
 Now... what about those EL84's guys.... what's my wish list for those!?
  
 Many thanks guys, am really surprised the difference this has made to my system.


----------



## MartinM

Ordered some Amperex Bugle Boy's in the end


----------



## Skylab

That's a very good choice! I also really liked the black plate Sylvania 6BQ5's, so deep your eyes peeled for those too.


----------



## BugleBoy

martinm said:


> Ordered some Amperex Bugle Boy's in the end


 

 They are the finest el84's IMHO...when paired with the Raytheon windmill getter or 7729's. Utterly immersive experience.
  
 If you like your music with a bit more energy and drive, then the Sylvania BP 6BQ5 with the Sylvania 5751 BP are great too.
  
 I use both combinations depending on the type of music.


----------



## 52gege

Bonjour,
 je possède un leben cs3300xs avec un casque sennheiser hd800.
 peut on écoute le casque sans les câbles d'enceintes branchés sur le leben ?
 Merci


----------



## 52gege

Hello,
 I own a leben cs300xs with Sennheiser HD800 headphones. 
 is that one can listen the headphone without  speaker cables connected to the leben?
 Thank


----------



## ardilla

52gege said:


> Hello,
> I own a leben cs300xs with Sennheiser HD800 headphones.
> is that one can listen the headphone without  speaker cables connected to the leben?
> Thank


 
  
 Yes. When you set the output switch to "headphone", there is no difference if you have speakers or not connected as far as I know.


----------



## 52gege

Citation: 





> Posté par *ardilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Oui. Lorsque vous réglez le commutateur de sortie pour "casque", il n'y a pas de différence si vous avez des enceintes ou non connectés à ce que je sais.


 
  
 Thank you.


----------



## ardilla

52gege said:


> Thank you.


 
  
 ^ Happy listening -  BTW, didn't know I spoke French


----------



## Xenophon

ardilla said:


> ^ Happy listening -  BTW, didn't know I spoke French


 

 Don't get carried away now   machine translation isn't quite there yet, it's funny to read how it screws up 'as far as  I know' in French, nobody would say it like that.


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> Don't get carried away now   machine translation isn't quite there yet, it's funny to read how it screws up 'as far as  I know' in French, nobody would say it like that.


 
  
 You made me curious..Tried reverse translation 
  

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] Yes . When you set the output switch for " helmet " , there is no difference if you are pregnant or not connected to what I know .[/color]
```


----------



## BugleBoy

This is 50% off topic
  
 To all Leben CS300X/s + Audeze LCD3 owners; What after market headphone cables have you found to be the most satisfying upgrade with this combo?
  
 Any comparisons between different cables will be helpful.
  
 Couple of weeks ago I took the plunge and bought the LCD3...so far liking what I hear.


----------



## Zoop

anyone have experience with the new CS300F? I can only find one review so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 i will be matching it with AKG K701, gardo 325 and denon D7100. any idea? thanks!


----------



## Skylab

bugleboy said:


> This is 50% off topic
> 
> To all Leben CS300X/s + Audeze LCD3 owners; What after market headphone cables have you found to be the most satisfying upgrade with this combo?
> 
> ...




I liked the Q cable the best with the LCD-3, although I'm not someone who thinks cables make a huge difference, only a very subtle one.


----------



## buson160man

zoop said:


> anyone have experience with the new CS300F? I can only find one review so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  You might consider using a vintage circa late 1970s receiver to drive your headphones. I was following these vintage units for awhile and finally took the plunge about 5 months ago. I have not looked back ever since. I bought a concept 16.5 monster vintage receiver and it easily trumps most headphone amps that I have heard for driving headphones. The available power that a unit like the 16.5 produces with headphones is considerably more than most headphone amps out there. Of course the unit I bought was recapped which anyone with a unit this old should consider having done on your unit. Parts do age over that period of time for sure. The concept 16.5 put out 165 watts rms at 8 ohms and 240 watts rms at 4 ohms per channel. The 16.5 is a real beast with headphones.


----------



## Zoop

buson160man said:


> You might consider using a vintage circa late 1970s receiver to drive your headphones. I was following these vintage units for awhile and finally took the plunge about 5 months ago. I have not looked back ever since. I bought a concept 16.5 monster vintage receiver and it easily trumps most headphone amps that I have heard for driving headphones. The available power that a unit like the 16.5 produces with headphones is considerably more than most headphone amps out there. Of course the unit I bought was recapped which anyone with a unit this old should consider having done on your unit. Parts do age over that period of time for sure. The concept 16.5 put out 165 watts rms at 8 ohms and 240 watts rms at 4 ohms per channel. The 16.5 is a real beast with headphones.


 
 Thanks! i will look into it. i must admit, my 20 years old denon receiver does a better job than the audiolab 8200 CDQ i have. I do question if some of the new design is all just about cost cutting....


----------



## BugleBoy

skylab said:


> I liked the Q cable the best with the LCD-3, although I'm not someone who thinks cables make a huge difference, only a very subtle one.


 
  
 Thanks Skylab!
  
 The Q cable is one of my shortlist...the others being Moon Silver Dragon and Artisan silver. Q looks like better value of the lot.
  
 I agree cables don't always make a difference...thought there have been a few instances where cables have made a big difference in my system.
  
 With Leben + Audeze combo I am keen to explore where the diminishing returns kick in


----------



## Julz-

Hi all,
  
 This will be my first post on the Head-Fi Forum, very pleased to join you after having read many threads here.
 Important to know that I'm a full Newbee in "cans" as I've been mostly listening to music for Hi Fi with Speakers.
  
  
 Just a quick sum-up of my configuration :
*- Speakers* : Proac D18 / MrSpeakers Alpha Prime
*- Amp* : Leben CS600
*- Dac* : Hegel HD25
*- Source* : SOTM SMS100 with dedicated battery - Configuration in DLNA / JRiver&JRemote / Nas Synology 2 x 3TB
  
  
 I've just bought a* MrSpeakers Alpha Prime* (after having read many reviews and the full thread here) and I don't understand because it seems to me *it doesn't work properly* :
 - Very litlle bass / no sub-bass => hence a not well balanced sound (too bright)
 - Saturated sound when I put the volume above 11/12 o clock (and the sound doesn't seem loud at all)
  
 All in all I have a MUCH better sound with my stupid 75€ Marshall Major Headphone !
  
  
 My question is simple : can the leben CS600 drive properly those cans ?
 MrSpeaker recommand to have a headphone power rating of 200mW at 50 ohms. Does any one knows the power rating of the Leben CS600's headphone jack ? 
  
 Many thanks in adavnce for your help,
 Julien
  
 PS : I maybe also post this to the MrSpeakers AP Thread


----------



## levlhed

This is a CS300 thread.


----------



## Julz-

levlhed said:


> This is a CS300 thread.


 
I understand, but since it is a Leben CS300 thread, maybe you could tell me the power rating of the Leben CS300 headphone output ? Tks


----------



## MikeLa

Julz, to my old ears, I've found the Leben amps to sound much better (great) with high impedance headphones - think HD800 and Beyerdynamic T1 type impedance.  When I was using my CS600 with headphones, I married it to T1's - it worked excellent for me. 
  
 ~michael


----------



## dminches

That has not been my experience. I don't think any amp does a better job with LCD-3s.


----------



## Julz-

mikela said:


> Julz, to my old ears, I've found the Leben amps to sound much better (great) with high impedance headphones - think HD800 and Beyerdynamic T1 type impedance.  When I was using my CS600 with headphones, I married it to T1's - it worked excellent for me.
> 
> ~michael


 
  


dminches said:


> That has not been my experience. I don't think any amp does a better job with LCD-3s.


 
  
 Thanks for your help and advices, but I'm looking for closed cans as I mainly listen to music through my ProAC D18.
 I justed wanted a good closed Hi Fi headphone when my wife asked me for some rest after 4 hours of music in a raw... Women.


----------



## BugleBoy

I use both low and high impedance headphones with my 300X. In my experience they sound better with my LCD-3, ZMF Vibro (which is also a modified T50RP similar to your mr Speakers). While my HD-600 also sound great, they has a higher noise floor compared to the low impedance cans.


----------



## nonno breuss

an 'inside' headsup/interest check, since you also apprechiate the traints of this amp.. 
  
 I might soon (= within the next four weeks) sell a cs300xs in mint condition with excellent tubes (including Raytheon Black Plate Windmill Getter 5751, NOS Tung Sols 12AX7's, and Valvo EL84 (Hamburg, Germany) from old stock. Same code: rX3 D, Matched quad gold pins gold grid 6P14P-ER Reflector (EL84 7189 6BQ5) NOS, stock sovtek EL83 and 84, Testla E83CC (frame grid, excellent)..  in V230 Version it is from 2009, I have all original paperwork, the headphone output seems to be pre-the change that they had when they lowered the Voltage (so it can easily drive the LCD-2s)
  
 The amp is silent with Sony R10's and has a small (!) amount of humm with HD650 (but none that I could detect even in quiate parts, only with music turned off).
  
 best, Nonno


----------



## weitn

I am thinking of upgrading my headphone. I never heard of any Audeze headphone. I could get either the lcd-3 and lcd-2. My source is MacBook Pro. DAC is MHDT Pagoda (neutral sounding). Headphone amp is Leben CS600 with KT90 (slightly warm). Which model better suits my system?


----------



## ardilla

Haven't heard the CS600, but the CS300 is stunning with both Audezes, I would certainly go for the LCD3 if money is no issue. I see you have the HD650 - that should indicate that you'll enjoy the LCD3. FWIW.


----------



## Yekine

Hi, this is my first post.

Has anyone had trouble with the selector switch? Basically my CD and line 1 positions are dead.


----------



## deuter

bugleboy said:


> I use both low and high impedance headphones with my 300X. In my experience they sound better with my LCD-3, ZMF Vibro (which is also a modified T50RP similar to your mr Speakers). While my HD-600 also sound great, they has a higher noise floor compared to the low impedance cans.






I would like to try the tubes you've got for the Leben, any chance you can link me some online stores for them. 
I'am currently using the Gold Lion reissue and Jan 12ax7


----------



## ardilla

yekine said:


> Hi, this is my first post.
> 
> Has anyone had trouble with the selector switch? *Basically* my CD and line 1 positions are dead.


 
  
 What do you mean "basically"? Is there any crackling, noise etc? Most common problem is just dust and corrosion on the internal switches blocking the electrons from moving freely. Electrons  do not like that and refuses to move. Spray some cleaner, like Caig Deoxit D5 in there - it is all open, it seems


----------



## Yekine

Hi, thanks for the reply.  "basically" as in no sound.  went from just right channel with intermittent left channel, to nothing at all.  I will try the Caig spray; thanks for the advice.


----------



## BugleBoy

deuter said:


> I would like to try the tubes you've got for the Leben, any chance you can link me some online stores for them.
> I'am currently using the Gold Lion reissue and Jan 12ax7


 
  
 I currently use Amperex BB or Philips Miniwatt El-84 with d-getters for power tubes and Raytheon 5751 with windmill getter or Raytheon 7729 for the driver tubes. I have bought them all of ebay as it is next to impossible to find them in any tube store. If you are buying from ebay ensure you have a good tube tester to check them and only buy from reliable sellers...so far I have not had any bad experiences with tubes purchased from ebay.
  
 I have tried the Gold Lion reissues but did not warm up to the sound...To my ear Mullard reissues sound better.


----------



## deuter

bugleboy said:


> I currently use Amperex BB or Philips Miniwatt El-84 with d-getters for power tubes and Raytheon 5751 with windmill getter or Raytheon 7729 for the driver tubes. I have bought them all of ebay as it is next to impossible to find them in any tube store. If you are buying from ebay ensure you have a good tube tester to check them and only buy from reliable sellers...so far I have not had any bad experiences with tubes purchased from ebay.
> 
> I have tried the Gold Lion reissues but did not warm up to the sound...To my ear Mullard reissues sound better.




I'am really bad at identifying the right tubes, you able to ebay link it for me please. What didn't you like about the Gold Lion?


----------



## BugleBoy

deuter said:


> I'am really bad at identifying the right tubes, you able to ebay link it for me please. What didn't you like about the Gold Lion?


 
  
 Identifying the "right tubes" is not an exact science. You can definitely exact match tubes for their electrical properties...but that's just cork sniffing in my opinion and not relevant in a well designed audio amp such as the leben. To me the right tubes are the ones that are not way off from each other...and are reasonably in the ball park. I do not chase perfectly matched quads etc
  
 So with the above in mind; most of the power tubes I buy from ebay are strong testing singles or pairs (not necessarily matched). Once I have enough if these I just roughly match them for use in the amp. Also buying singles are a lot cheaper than the ones listed as matched pairs/quads etc.
  
 Most of the El-84's I buy are the sittard produced ones with the d-getter. They come in different labels...but the most common ones are Amperex or Philips Miniwatt. You can determine the plant they were produced from the date code. some sellers will mention the date code and some wont. You just have to ask the questions before you commit to buy.
  
 A good example of El84 listing is currently on ebay here:
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-pc-NOS-Philips-Miniwatt-EL84-code-rX2-X5k-tested-108-6BQ5-D-getter-rare-tube-/361213641587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541a02c373


----------



## deuter

bugleboy said:


> Identifying the "right tubes" is not an exact science. You can definitely exact match tubes for their electrical properties...but that's just cork sniffing in my opinion and not relevant in a well designed audio amp such as the leben. To me the right tubes are the ones that are not way off from each other...and are reasonably in the ball park. I do not chase perfectly matched quads etc
> 
> So with the above in mind; most of the power tubes I buy from ebay are strong testing singles or pairs (not necessarily matched). Once I have enough if these I just roughly match them for use in the amp. Also buying singles are a lot cheaper than the ones listed as matched pairs/quads etc.
> 
> ...



I will say, wow you have confused me even further. 
I don't know what year? 
Where they were made, etc? 

I guess you know enough on tubes and I'am not even scratching the subject. 
Let me put it another way, you've highlighted the tubes, but it's not enough for me especially buying individuals as for all I know I might buy 4 El84s 100 years apart and from different countries. Same applies to the 12AX7.

With the Gold Lion it was as simple as clicking on add to cart for the quad. 

Same with the JJ 12AX7


----------



## BugleBoy

deuter said:


> I will say, wow you have confused me even further.
> I don't know what year?
> Where they were made, etc?
> 
> ...


 
  
 To begin with it might be a good idea to digest some info about factory valve codes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. You will find them here:
  
 http://eastwoodamps.com/PhilipsCodes.pdf
  
 A better explanation of how to interpret the valve codes can be found here:
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
 For example:
 The tube in the ebay listing in my earlier post has the date code rX2-X5K. If you break this down it tell us the following:
  
 rX = Tube Type > EL84
 2 = Change Code (not important as it is internal factory batch code)
  
 X= Factory > Sittard Factory Holland
 5= Year > 1955
 k= Month > Oct
  
 Note: upper and lower case letters are not interchangeable.
  
 Sorry if this sounds cryptic and confusing; but if you are going to make buying decisions on NOS or vintage tubes it is worth investing some time to understand how to interpret the codes. Just so you don't get burnt .


----------



## BugleBoy

ardilla said:


> What do you mean "basically"? Is there any crackling, noise etc? Most common problem is just dust and corrosion on the internal switches blocking the electrons from moving freely. Electrons  do not like that and refuses to move. Spray some cleaner, like Caig Deoxit D5 in there - it is all open, it seems


 
  
 Or maybe the solder joints have come loose on the selector switch. Just a thought.


----------



## mrtim6

Hi Bugleboy - you have a good understanding of tube nomlencuture - one thing I always wonderd is how you knew the Raytheon 7729 are such good tubes - I love the Raytheon 5751 windmill getter as a driver tube myself & bought a nice NOS pair in the UK 3 years ago whilst on holiday. Never could find any 7729 tubes I remember you telling me they are very rare.

I concure the Philips miniwatt el84 are excellent tubes pretty good alternative to the amperex Bugleboy el84s. 

Have you tried any Japanese EL84 s or 12XA7 with the Leben - I'll also throw that question out to all on this thread?


----------



## BugleBoy

mrtim6 said:


> Hi Bugleboy - you have a good understanding of tube nomlencuture - one thing I always wonderd is how you knew the Raytheon 7729 are such good tubes - I love the Raytheon 5751 windmill getter as a driver tube myself & bought a nice NOS pair in the UK 3 years ago whilst on holiday. Never could find any 7729 tubes I remember you telling me they are very rare.
> 
> I concure the Philips miniwatt el84 are excellent tubes pretty good alternative to the amperex Bugleboy el84s.
> 
> Have you tried any Japanese EL84 s or 12XA7 with the Leben - I'll also throw that question out to all on this thread?


 
  
 I didn't know they would work so well with the Leben. All I knew before I bought the first pair of 7729 that they were low noise tubes designed for lab application.+ couple of good feedback I had seen in some reviews. So it was a pleasant surprise to find out how good they sound 
  
 I think the Philips Miniwatt and Amperex EL84 from the sittard plant are exactly the same tubes...with different labels.
  
 I have not tried Japanese tubes with the Leben. I am currently restoring a Sansui AU-70 which has 3 Toshiba 12ax7 and 4 Matsu****a 7189A tubes...they sound great on the Sansui.


----------



## musixs

Hi Leben's lovers.. 
Just wondering how would the CS300F edition sound different from the CS300XS? I'm about to decide which of the two should I opt. A local audio shop has the 300F in stock but not the 300XS. It seems that the 300XS has been evryone's favourite here.. Not to mention that preordering the 300XS would take 1.5 months to arrive. 
Also, someone suggested Prautes - Cypherlabs over CS300XS. Any comments to share on that? Thanks


----------



## parbaked

musixs said:


> Hi Leben's lovers..
> Just wondering how would the CS300F edition sound different from the CS300XS?
> Also, someone suggested Prautes - Cypherlabs over CS300XS. Any comments to share on that? Thanks


 
 I have not heard the 300f, but the 6197 tube it uses, instead of the EL84, is an excellent tube.
 I have a 6197 SEP amp that I much prefer to the EL84 based Decware Zen.
  
 The Prautes is more suited for headphones as it will only drive high efficiency speakers. It only outputs 2 watts to 8 ohms. 
 The Leben is more of a speaker amp that also does headphones. It's 15 watts is more useful for speakers.


----------



## Yekine

Hi, had to order the Caig online since I'm in Canada. Did the trick! Was surprise to see how much dust had accumulated inside the unit. Much appreciated!


----------



## dresam

Has anyone had an issue where the front metal plate, just beneath the headphone jack, becomes bowed in slightly?
  
 I've only had my HD800's plugged in, and never had any force applied down on the jack, but the front plate now seems very slightly bent inwards right there, but only really visible from the side. Am I being overly obsessive about a thing that's common... I only ask because I'm thinking of selling it and want to be up front with the buyer.


----------



## Topspin70

Any Leben owners here owned a Auralic Taurus before? Love to hear opinions on how they differ as I'm deciding between the two. Will be driving my LCD3 with the amp. Thanks in advance for any feedback you can share.


----------



## ardilla

topspin70 said:


> Any Leben owners here owned a Auralic Taurus before? Love to hear opinions on how they differ as I'm deciding between the two. Will be driving my LCD3 with the amp. Thanks in advance for any feedback you can share.


 
  
 I have both, and prefer the Leben. Both are actually really great matches for the LCD3, but there is something about the Leben... More alive, in a way.


----------



## Topspin70

ardilla said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > Any Leben owners here owned a Auralic Taurus before? Love to hear opinions on how they differ as I'm deciding between the two. Will be driving my LCD3 with the amp. Thanks in advance for any feedback you can share.
> ...




Nice! That's exactly the way I like my music. Thanks for sharing. I'll probably go with the Leben. At first I thought the Taurus being really powerful would deliver just as good if not better SQ no doubt in a SS sort of way. Incidentally what is the HP output power of the Leben. Don't seem to be specified anywhere.


----------



## ardilla

topspin70 said:


> Nice! That's exactly the way I like my music. Thanks for sharing. I'll probably go with the Leben. At first I thought the Taurus being really powerful would deliver just as good if not better SQ no doubt in a SS sort of way. Incidentally what is the HP output power of the Leben. Don't seem to be specified anywhere.


 
  
 There are two versions of the Leben's output. One is 1W the other is 0.8W. The 1W option is by special order - but it is just a matter of two resistors easily swapped by any tech/DIY. I have the 1W version. See here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1290#post_8731184


----------



## dsticker

Thanks for that link to your post about the resistor, ardilla.  I'm getting ready to sell my Leben & tube collection and your post will help me explain the hum I get with my HD800 but not my LCD3.


----------



## Topspin70

ardilla said:


> There are two versions of the Leben's output. One is 1W the other is 0.8W. The 1W option is by special order - but it is just a matter of two resistors easily swapped by any tech/DIY. I have the 1W version. See here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/1290#post_8731184


 
  
 That's quite little compared to the Taurus! But I guess it's one of those cases where power isn't everything. And for this the Mjolnir comes to mind. Would you say the Taurus is closer to that–all details and dynamics but less so on musicality which would be the case for Leben?


----------



## ardilla

dsticker said:


> Thanks for that link to your post about the resistor, ardilla.  I'm getting ready to sell my Leben & tube collection and your post will help me explain the hum I get with my HD800 but not my LCD3.




The hum issue is almost exclusively with high impedance headphones for most people. A DC filter might help, i will ge one after summer


----------



## ardilla

topspin70 said:


> That's quite little compared to the Taurus! But I guess it's one of those cases where power isn't everything. And for this the Mjolnir comes to mind. Would you say the Taurus is closer to that–all details and dynamics but less so on musicality which would be the case for Leben?




I actially have compared the Mjolnir and Taurus here: http://www.headphoneer.com/mjolnir-vs-taurus/ I also compared the Taurus to the Conductor, and the Conductor to the Leben om the same site, http://www.headphoneer.com/the-burson-conductor/

Hope it can be of any help  

About the hum issues mentioned avove, it is the only drawback for the Leben. But i have had no hum with lcd3, 2, He500, q701 among others. But for high impedance and especially sensitive headphones i do notice some hum. Do you have a chance to try it at home before you buy? I believe local mains power conditions matter on this. It is a magical amp, worth a little extra effort


----------



## BugleBoy

ardilla said:


> About the hum issues mentioned avove, it is the only drawback for the Leben. But i have had no hum with lcd3, 2, He500, q701 among others. But for high impedance and especially sensitive headphones i do notice some hum. Do you have a chance to try it at home before you buy? I believe local mains power conditions matter on this. It is a magical amp, worth a little extra effort


 
  
 I have had intermittent hum issues when I use my HD-600 and my ProAc speakers...but nothing on my LCD-3 or Fostex T50RP. What I have discovered is; with my CS-300X this is mainly due to incorrect seating of the tubes within their sockets...mainly the driver tubes. When I switch on the amp if I hear any hum I just give the driver tubes a bit of wiggle and the hum goes away...completely! I normally have to do this only once for each set of driver tubes I roll in...if required.
  
 Many of the tubes i thought were causing the hum problem are now back in circulation!!
 Keen to see if others have similar result with this rather unscientific approach to resolving the hum issues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just my 2c.


----------



## Topspin70

ardilla said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > That's quite little compared to the Taurus! But I guess it's one of those cases where power isn't everything. And for this the Mjolnir comes to mind. Would you say the Taurus is closer to that–all details and dynamics but less so on musicality which would be the case for Leben?
> ...




Those are really good reads. Now I can mentally picture where each of them stand in terms of SQ. I find it really hard not to like the Leben even though the Taurus checks off a lot of things I want in an amp. I'm not too concerned about the hum as I'm a dedicated LCD3 guy. 

I'm gonna audition it anyway but I think like there's only the 300F model these days. Would you say the 300xs is more magical comparatively speaking? It would mean I gotta look in the resale market is so.


----------



## ardilla

Have





topspin70 said:


> Those are really good reads. Now I can mentally picture where each of them stand in terms of SQ. I find it really hard not to like the Leben even though the Taurus checks off a lot of things I want in an amp. I'm not too concerned about the hum as I'm a dedicated LCD3 guy.
> 
> I'm gonna audition it anyway but I think like there's only the 300F model these days. Would you say the 300xs is more magical comparatively speaking? It would mean I gotta look in the resale market is so.




I'glad you got something out of it  

I have not heard the F-version, so I have no idea. But it would surprise me if it was totally different, from shat I have read the difference between the x, xs an tha plain versions are small. But what seems a bit odd is that the output impedance is 300 ohm for headphones at Lebens specs list. They haven't stated the outp.imp. For the XS, but Leben has stated that it was best for low impedance cans.

From the Leben pages it seems that only the plain version (cs300) is discontinued, the cs300xs is not. 
http://lebenhifi.com/products.html
I would try to get hold of a 1w headphone version, Leben told me it was special order. Or just get the resistors swapped.


----------



## ardilla

bugleboy said:


> I have had intermittent hum issues when I use my HD-600 and my ProAc speakers...but nothing on my LCD-3 or Fostex T50RP. What I have discovered is; with my CS-300X this is mainly due to incorrect seating of the tubes within their sockets...mainly the driver tubes. When I switch on the amp if I hear any hum I just give the driver tubes a bit of wiggle and the hum goes away...completely! I normally have to do this only once for each set of driver tubes I roll in...if required.
> 
> Many of the tubes i thought were causing the hum problem are now back in circulation!!
> Keen to see if others have similar result with this rather unscientific approach to resolving the hum issues
> ...




Very interesting indeed. I will investigate this. No hum at all with HD600?


----------



## Xenophon

ardilla said:


> I actially have compared the Mjolnir and Taurus here: http://www.headphoneer.com/mjolnir-vs-taurus/ I also compared the Taurus to the Conductor, and the Conductor to the Leben om the same site, http://www.headphoneer.com/the-burson-conductor/
> 
> Hope it can be of any help
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice job on the comparisons and fwiw, it agrees completely with my own opinion, owning the V200/V800 combo and having compared them with the Conductor on my HD-800, HE-500 and HE-6.  For the 6 neither combo brings out the best but otherwise, yeah, the Vio's are more laid-back, darker (although that's not the exact term I'm looking for).  Unfortunately for me, with most of the classical music I listen to, I prefer a lighter/faster/more airy touch.  So I ended up owning the 'wrong' stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Never compared with the Leben and I've become a bit gear-tired over the last year, nowadays I listen mostly to my HE-6 plugged into a FirstWatt F5 clone being fed from the V800.  Hard to imagine anything bettering that setup (with the HE-6, I hasten to add).


----------



## ardilla

xenophon said:


> Very nice job on the comparisons and fwiw, it agrees completely with my own opinion, owning the V200/V800 combo and having compared them with the Conductor on my HD-800, HE-500 and HE-6.  For the 6 neither combo brings out the best but otherwise, yeah, the Vio's are more laid-back, darker (although that's not the exact term I'm looking for).  Unfortunately for me, with most of the classical music I listen to, I prefer a lighter/faster/more airy touch.  So I ended up owning the 'wrong' stack  .  Never compared with the Leben and I've become a bit gear-tired over the last year, nowadays I listen mostly to my HE-6 plugged into a FirstWatt F5 clone being fed from the V800.  Hard to imagine anything bettering that setup (with the HE-6, I hasten to add).




Thanks, good to hear that my impressions are shared by other qualified ears  

The HE6 is maybe my "if you had to live with only one" headphone. Using it with the m9 which is great, but I am really curious about those Firstwatts...

Actually, to get back to the Leben - for music that doesn't require much bass control (like slow jazz, chamber music etc), the CS300xs and HE6 is quite delicious


----------



## BugleBoy

bugleboy said:


> I have had intermittent hum issues when I use my HD-600 and my ProAc speakers...but nothing on my LCD-3 or Fostex T50RP. What I have discovered is; with my CS-300X this is mainly due to incorrect seating of the tubes within their sockets...mainly the driver tubes. When I switch on the amp if I hear any hum I just give the driver tubes a bit of wiggle and the hum goes away...completely! I normally have to do this only once for each set of driver tubes I roll in...if required.
> 
> Many of the tubes i thought were causing the hum problem are now back in circulation!!
> Keen to see if others have similar result with this rather unscientific approach to resolving the hum issues
> ...


 
  


ardilla said:


> Very interesting indeed. I will investigate this. No hum at all with HD600?


 
  
 Yes indeed...No hum with HD600 or my speakers.
  
 You will need to press down on the tip of the tube and move it gently from side to side, front and back, circular etc. At some point the hum should just disappear...just let go of the tube. If it starts humming again repeat the process.
  
 I'd be interested to hear if you get any success out of this.


----------



## setavn

I just acquire a Leben CS300 with 4 Telefunken El84 tubes , the two 12AX7 are also from Telefunken. However my local tube supplier just offers me a good deal on Mullard EL84 tubes. So anyone here have any experience with Mullard and Tele El84 and which one is better? Thank you


----------



## parbaked

setavn said:


> So anyone here have any experience with Mullard and Tele El84 and which one is better? Thank you


 
 Scroll down to find good information on different EL84 tubes....including how to spot fake Telefunkens
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6bq5.htm


----------



## dminches

setavn said:


> I just acquire a Leben CS300 with 4 Telefunken El84 tubes , the two 12AX7 are also from Telefunken. However my local tube supplier just offers me a good deal on Mullard EL84 tubes. So anyone here have any experience with Mullard and Tele El84 and which one is better? Thank you


 
  
 My favorite tube combination in my CS300SX is a pair of Sylvania 5751s (black plate, windmill getter) and a quad of Mullard EL84s.


----------



## setavn

So far my experience with Leben CS300 has been really awesome, both the speaker and headphone section of the amp are top notch. With my old Tannoy SRM 12X, the bass is tighter, much more deep, on all vocal songs the voice is more forward and it really make you feel the singer is right in front of you. I never heard such great bass from my tannoy since i parted with my old copland 402.
  
 I have a pair of   Sylvania 5751 black plate, i wil try to put it in my leben tonight and see how it goes. So far i definitely become a fan of Leben, i'm thinking about getting their phonobox as well, are they any good compare to Ear 834P? Thanks


----------



## dynavit

Hallo,
Does anybody have experience with Leben cs 300 ( any Model, but especially F) in combination with Abyss 1266?
Will it be strong enough to drive the Abyss? 
Hoe about the HE6?
Many thanks for reply!
Tom


----------



## ardilla

Just posted a review - comparing the Leben CS300XS with the Cary SLI-80 Signature:
  
 http://www.headphoneer.com/cary-sli-80-sig-vs-leben-cs300-xs-review/


----------



## parbaked

ardilla said:


> Just posted a review - comparing the Leben CS300XS with the Cary SLI-80 Signature:
> 
> http://www.headphoneer.com/cary-sli-80-sig-vs-leben-cs300-xs-review/


 

 It is always better to have someone edit your work before you post it.
  
"Tubes in the Leben CS300XS: Golden Lion EL34 and RCA Wurlitzer Black 12AX7 (neither original)."

 Your Leben has EL84 tubes, not EL34...whoops!


----------



## ardilla

parbaked said:


> It is always better to have someone edit your work before you post it.
> 
> "Tubes in the Leben CS300XS: Golden Lion EL34 and RCA Wurlitzer Black 12AX7 (neither original)."
> 
> Your Leben has EL84 tubes, not EL34...whoops!


 
  
 Thanks - fixed ,)


----------



## Purnendu

Leben as a general purpose amp
  
 Not to divert the thread, but on another note. Has anyone tried running the Leben through an active preamplifier. I did this first some years ago with a symphonic line preamp and found that there was a lot more drive to the sound of the speakers (Proac tablette 86db ). Last week I have had a Xindak 3200 II with me and again I find that the sound is much more unstressesd and engaging through the speakers (Contrast audio AS 3), at lower as well ashigher volumes. 
  
 Although I do listen through headphones (Beyer DT 880 and Senn 595), for the most part I listen to speakers. If any one has experience in running the leben through a preamp, I would like to hear from them. The volume pot in the Leben is a passive device, and as I understand it its function is that of attenuation and not amplification. An active preamp brings something to the table which the Leben benefits from, especially when driving the speakers. It could of course bring also about a change for the worse! Such as a light hum, which I can hear through my headphones but not the speakers.
  
 Even though this is head-fi, since it is a Leben thread it would be nice to hear from those who also use the Leben for general listening on speakers. After three years of ownership i find that it is underpowered even for a speaker rated at 91 db or so. Recently I heard the leben on a 97 db rated speaker (Davis acoustics Monitor one, and although it was a bit honky, the dynamics were huge. the size and price of those speakers prevent me from going that way unfortunately
  
 Thanks for any responses


----------



## BugleBoy

Hmmm...I read somewhere else that Leben CS-300 sounds much better with the NVA P90 passive pre-amplifier.
  
 I also use the ProAc Tablette Ref 8 Sig with my Leben 300x and find it has adequate power; though admittedly I listen to it in low volume as it is set-up for near field listening. I hardly ever go above 9 o clock with the volume knob.


----------



## Purnendu

Interesting: A passive sounding better.The Leben volume pot is already a passive attenuator I thought. 
  
 Anyhow I have been listening to the active pre mentioned above and it does sound much fuller. If you have access to a decent pre do try it out.


----------



## fr9ncisco

parbaked said:


> Scroll down to find good information on different EL84 tubes....including how to spot fake Telefunkens
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6bq5.htm



Hello all, i am a happy leben cs300 owner i got here as a second hand for half the price for a 8 year old amp in a mint condition Sound was nice but tubes where worn out and i really got to see improvements with tube change : i use E84l 1968 siemens from ebay and mazda ecc83 Nos. But getting the phase from current right made a big improvement, with shuko plugs where it is possible to invert phase. If you make sure phase is right, sound comes frm nice to fantastic. A good pair of cheap mogami modulation cables made a big difference, i personally use 2497 mogami interconnect. On the link you provided,there are really good info about spotting fake tubes, but for us in europe we can get better deals with a few serious sellers in europe with no import taxes from usa sellers due to customs policies. About microphonics, you can use dampers that limits them. About the gear im wating for a k701. Ill let you know


----------



## mrtim6

Hi I have used my leben cs300xs to drive headphones & speakers. I have had good results with Zu Soulsuperflys. However surprisingly I found a recently restored & tweaked set of old classic Polk Monitor 7s sounded even more dynamic. Not too sure why however results for the price ( of restoring the M7s) are stella.

I sold the Zu's and now own the much superior Yamaha NS-2000. Sonic masterpieces and appear to be on the net an unknown gem.

I have not tried the Leben with the NS-2000 yet however I will give them a try next month.
I have used the Cantata DAC/preamp/cd player as a preamp with the Leben with excellent results.


----------



## BugleBoy

fr9ncisco said:


> If you make sure phase is right, sound comes frm nice to fantastic.


 
  
 I added Audience Adept Response AR12 to my system couple of years ago...it made a big difference.
  
 you can read up on it here: http://www.stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/407aud/#UIVkyZcuG4ZTVIMc.97


----------



## zoroastra

ardilla said:


> I actially have compared the Mjolnir and Taurus here: http://www.headphoneer.com/mjolnir-vs-taurus/ I also compared the Taurus to the Conductor, and the Conductor to the Leben om the same site, http://www.headphoneer.com/the-burson-conductor/
> 
> Hope it can be of any help
> 
> ...


 

 Ardilla, what about the local mains power conditions? Would a mains conditioner, filter, with everything plugged in to it help, or cause the hum? In other words, is the grounds of each device looping with the return on the RCA cables causing a ground loop? Do others with a history of a hum with this amplifier use a mains conditioner, or lift the ground prong off their plugs and use the star grounding lug in the back of the Leben, or all three?


----------



## ardilla

I have not tried any of that, I might be getting a DC filter, I think, but mostly I don't bother since I have different amps for the high imp headphones. Local power does seem to vary on such things, I have only tried it three places in the same area of my home town, so I shouldn't generalize, I am under the pression that 230v users such as myself are more at risk for hum than 110v.


----------



## fr9ncisco

ardilla said:


> I have not tried any of that, I might be getting a DC filter, I think, but mostly I don't bother since I have different amps for the high imp headphones. Local power does seem to vary on such things, I have only tried it three places in the same area of my home town, so I shouldn't generalize, I am under the pression that 230v users such as myself are more at risk for hum than 110v.







bugleboy said:


> I added Audience Adept Response AR12 to my system couple of years ago...it made a big difference.
> 
> you can read up on it here: http://www.stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/407aud/#UIVkyZcuG4ZTVIMc.97


hello BuggleBoy,the issue i am talking about in that case is that there are no garranty that the phase is not inverted with neutral(usually ground is right).in europe and in france especially its a known fact, wheras if you use on a power supply an inverted device, it messes the whole orher hifidevices. How do we deal with this? Well,we test one by one every device plugged on the shuko power supply, making sure other are disconnected. I use myself a cheap mesuring tool that signals with a light the issue when i take it close to the de device. Some other people use a electric meter to verify this point. Then i am able to spot if there is an inversion of phase and neutral and in that case using a tape,i mark the plug and turn it 180°and then move to next apparel that i plug on the power supply. Until they are all checked separately. Inverting a shuko plug is a breaze where as in the us you would have to recable...
I red some posts on a french audiophile forum that advised to do this check and in my case it helped a lot. Sound was less fuzzy, it gave more cohesion and aeryness.
It costed me 10 bucks or so for the price of this tool but i thought it was worth it. I'll look up this info tomorrow night and post the links and at best will try to translate it for the english only speaker.


----------



## ardilla

fr9ncisco said:


> hello BuggleBoy,the issue i am talking about in that case is that there are no garranty that the phase is not inverted with neutral(usually ground is right).in europe and in france especially its a known fact, wheras if you use on a power supply an inverted device, it messes the whole orher hifidevices. How do we deal with this? Well,we test one by one every device plugged on the shuko power supply, making sure other are disconnected. I use myself a cheap mesuring tool that signals with a light the issue when i take it close to the de device. Some other people use a electric meter to verify this point. Then i am able to spot if there is an inversion of phase and neutral and in that case using a tape,i mark the plug and turn it 180°and then move to next apparel that i plug on the power supply. Until they are all checked separately. Inverting a shuko plug is a breaze where as in the us you would have to recable...
> I red some posts on a french audiophile forum that advised to do this check and in my case it helped a lot. Sound was less fuzzy, it gave more cohesion and aeryness.
> It costed me 10 bucks or so for the price of this tool but i thought it was worth it. I'll look up this info tomorrow night and post the links and at best will try to translate it for the english only speaker.


 
  
 So you are saying that everything in your house must be check for polarity - or just the hifi-stuff?


----------



## fr9ncisco

Just the hifi stuff and whatever is plugged with it from the same socket from the wall. I have a dedicated wall socket for my hifi equipment. The main improvment was heard when the leben was correctly plugged. To tell you the truth, even though the tool i used made it obvious for the leben, i could not tell dor the Cambridge audio cd player i use.


----------



## fr9ncisco

As a Reminder,  and as a warning, please pay extra care to electricity handling. If you dont understand any of what was said, dont even try to bother, just enjoy your gear as you always had.In any case please use extra care, anytime, anywhere.
  
 ok here it is :
  
 Its a thread on a french forum where some people are dubious and some are convinced and some of them have tested the principle and experienced a difference like i did with the leben.
 http://www.forum-audiophile.fr/conseils-aide/comment-etre-en-phase-electrique-t23756.html
  
  
 The type of gear (electric plugs) we use here in France and some other countries too is very different of what is used in UK or US
 With a Schuko plug you still have ground connection but you can invert phase and neutral connection...
  
 Here is a picture of such thing :
 http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/f/
  
 So if we use the kind on power supply like this one : (Sorry for the link, i have no affiliation with this website whatsoever, I googled "multiprise shucko" on google.fr)
 http://www.audiophonics.fr/multiprise-schuko-ports-qualite-professionnelle-cablee-120m-p-4533.html
  
  
 then inversing phase and neutral is easy with this schucko system.
  
 But it is not generally found in general shops except in audio shops most of the time, am sometime with prices that can be outrageous for supposedly high end stuff.
  
  
 In the end , my point is that in some countries, full respect to phase and neutral is done correctly but in France it is not all the time and we need to make sure of this to get the best of our hifi equipment.
  
  
 Here is a link in French(sorry no translation tonight) : That explain how to test for phase inversion with a multimeter on a Hifi device.
 http://www.hifi-cables.com/Mise_en_phase_chaine.htm
  
 In short, it explains how to detect if you hifi device is plugged correctly or not, how to detect it. As well
 I did the summary though Google translate and i got that that to me makes sense but well, to English speakers it might not : e.g. "the mass" for "la masse" wich is very hard to translate as it has an electrical meaning
 +++
 With any hi-fi or home theater system to draw all the qualities, it is important to conduct a phasing of all devices. This procedure is relatively simple. It allows to minimize the (earth grounding?)mass of currents flowing in the connecting cables which disturb the transmission of the signals : digital or analog.
  
 +++
  
  
 Again, please be cautious and take care of yourself.
 To Moderators : I let it to your own judgment to remove this post, if this is considering dangerous in any way.


----------



## ardilla

fr9ncisco said:


> Just the hifi stuff and whatever is plugged with it from the same socket from the wall. I have a dedicated wall socket for my hifi equipment. The main improvment was heard when the leben was correctly plugged. To tell you the truth, even though the tool i used made it obvious for the leben, i could not tell dor the Cambridge audio cd player i use.


 
  
 I have tried flipping the schuko for the Leben and other stuff, with no result. But never tried to get all right at the same time....
  
 However - if I unplug everything else, and try plugging in the Leben both ways (with the schuko)I should hear a difference - if my hum issue is about polarity - rigt?
  
 Also - you have a link to that tool you are using - or a similar one?


----------



## 2359glenn

The problem is the power/mains transformer is to close to the output transformers. They are picking up
 the magnetic field from the power transformer there is no cure for this. Changing the power transformer
 to a higher quality one not so easy.


----------



## fr9ncisco

@ardilla: you are right if yoy tried flipping the shucko without any effect on the hum, then polarity is not the issue i'am afraid.
I started to read this lebe thread few days ago from first pages and haven't read all of them yet 146 pages. I do remember in the first pages i red that someone got rid of hum by moving tubes right in their socket, while the amp if off of course .because some of them got not plased right... maybe this could be that issue.
As off the tool i was talking about its called brennenstuhl, here is a link on a french web site with its reference
http://www.inkstore.fr/store/brennenstuhl-multitesteur-6s2-electronique-anthracite-p-122282.html?gclid=CNTU_4miyb0CFUTHtAodzFcAfA,
you might be able to find it elsewhere . One note is that when you use this tool to check polarity, you need to disconnect rca connectors from the apparel you are testing. Just get it close to the apparel with your finger on the top, if the leben is not in phase, it starts flashing about 20 centimeters from it. Always check one apparel diconnected from the others by unconnecting modulation cables between them.


----------



## Torero

The 15w speaker outputs of Leben CS300XS area enough to drive the HE-6 fine?


----------



## ardilla

torero said:


> The 15w speaker outputs of Leben CS300XS area enough to drive the HE-6 fine?


 
  
 It is nice with the HE-6 - but you can do better. Bass is tighter on more powerful amps.


----------



## ardilla

fr9ncisco said:


> @ardilla: you are right if yoy tried flipping the shucko without any effect on the hum, then polarity is not the issue i'am afraid.
> I started to read this lebe thread few days ago from first pages and haven't read all of them yet 146 pages. I do remember in the first pages i red that someone got rid of hum by moving tubes right in their socket, while the amp if off of course
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks - I'll be getting one of those - nice to have =)


----------



## ardilla

2359glenn said:


> The problem is the power/mains transformer is to close to the output transformers. They are picking up
> the magnetic field from the power transformer there is no cure for this. Changing the power transformer
> to a higher quality one not so easy.


 
 You are probably right about that. The hum is stronger in the channel that has it's otput transformer closer to the main transformer. 
  
 Here is a cure suggested by Kevin Gilmore... I have not gotten around to try it (yet), it requires some skills: 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/686511/magnetic-shielding-of-trafo-inside-leben-amp


----------



## 2359glenn

ardilla said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is the power/mains transformer is to close to the output transformers. They are picking up
> ...


 

 I don't know if you are up to it. I would remove it and replace it with a high quality C core transformer like Lundahl.
 This was a learning experience for me building amps I had hum that drove me nuts trying to get rid of.
 I removed the rectifier no more DC power to the amp turned it on and still hum. So it was coming from the power transformer.
 Now I use C core transformers hum is non existent now.  I am surprised this company hasn't learned this with
 all the complaints. Especially with a expensive amp like this.


----------



## ardilla

2359glenn said:


> I don't know if you are up to it. I would remove it and replace it with a high quality C core transformer like Lundahl.
> This was a learning experience for me building amps I had hum that drove me nuts trying to get rid of.
> I removed the rectifier no more DC power to the amp turned it on and still hum. So it was coming from the power transformer.
> Now I use C core transformers hum is non existent now.  I am surprised this company hasn't learned this with
> all the complaints. Especially with a expensive amp like this.


 
  
 The reason they have not done anything about it is beacuse it only affects a high impedance headphones. I have never had a problem with speakers, even quite sensitive ones. And cost is a key, of course, since every expense at factory level is mutiplied manyfold moving through importers/distributors and dealers. The cheapest option for fixing this (except the one sugested by Kevin Gilmore) might just be to move the main trafo over to an external case....


----------



## 2359glenn

ardilla said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if you are up to it. I would remove it and replace it with a high quality C core transformer like Lundahl.
> ...


 

 Yes that is another option a external case but that would also be a pain to do


----------



## zoroastra

ardilla said:


> The reason they have not done anything about it is beacuse it only affects a high impedance headphones. I have never had a problem with speakers, even quite sensitive ones. And cost is a key, of course, since every expense at factory level is mutiplied manyfold moving through importers/distributors and dealers. The cheapest option for fixing this (except the one sugested by Kevin Gilmore) might just be to move the main trafo over to an external case....


 

 Well, it affects my speakers. I have dipoles with very efficient 8ohm speaker for midrange and treble and a pair of less sensitive 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel for the bass. The crossover has a separate bass amplifier to match to the more sensitive midrange speaker but I bypassed that and plugged the Leben directly into the speaker terminals, it hummed on idle. Worse when amplified.


----------



## Henmyr

For the past years I've used the HD650 for 90%+ of the time and wonder if the Bottlehead Crack would be even better than the Leben for those.
 Have anyone here compared the Leben to the Crack with the HD650/HD600, what do you think about it?
  
 It's not that I'm really missing anything but I'm just very curious about the Crack.


----------



## ardilla

henmyr said:


> For the past years I've used the HD650 for 90%+ of the time and wonder if the Bottlehead Crack would be even better than the Leben for those.
> Have anyone here compared the Leben to the Crack with the HD650/HD600, what do you think about it?
> 
> It's not that I'm really missing anything but I'm just very curious about the Crack.


 
  
 FWIW - Havent heard the Crack - but have the WA2. I dont normally use the HD650 with it because I have a hum issue with that combination, but it sounds really good. I envy you who (I assume) do not have hum with the CS300/DH650 combo!


----------



## Henmyr

The hum is very very quiet and nothing that bothers me at all (I'm not sure I really hear it at all even when I try). It was worse with Sylvania 5751 and did bother me then, better it's much better with the Sovtek 12AX7LPS I'm using now.


----------



## ardilla

henmyr said:


> The hum is very very quiet and nothing that bothers me at all (I'm not sure I really hear it at all even when I try). It was worse with Sylvania 5751 and did bother me then, better it's much better with the Sovtek 12AX7LPS I'm using now.




So tubes make a big difference.. Hmm. What other tubes do you have in your amp when it doesn't hum? Are you on 100, 110 or 230 V ?


----------



## Henmyr

ardilla said:


> So tubes make a big difference.. Hmm. What other tubes do you have in your amp when it doesn't hum? Are you on 100, 110 or 230 V ?


 
  
 I'm on 230 V and use Gold Lion EL84 reissue and the Sovtek 12AX7LPS.


----------



## skrapa

Hi,
Has anybody heard the 'F' model? 
 Is there a big difference with 'X' or 'XS' version?


----------



## zoroastra

I have just purchased a pair of speakers that really do well with this Leben CS300Xs integrated amplifier. I just purchased a pair of Thrax Lyra loudspeakers on stands, for albeit more than the rest of my hi fi cost, but the combination is great. 
  
 I have a Loricraft Gerrard 301 with SME 3009 tonearm, a Nagaoka MP-500 MM cartridge, with silver wire into a Leben RS-30 EQ phono stage, that into the Leben CS300Xs integrated with Cord interconnects, Speaker cables are old Transparent Audio set, and into these Thrax speakers. They are really designed for 40-250 watts, but 90 db/watt sens makes them fine with this 15 watt Leben. 
  
 I am playing record after record and they never sounded so good. Slightly recessed sound stage but great articulate bass, smooth mids and trebles despite magnesium cones and horn-loaded compression tweeter. I feel (and those friend who have come round for a listen) that this is it, no further changes to the system ever again required, just purchase more records.


----------



## Ultrainferno

There still isn't a dedicated CS300F thread?


----------



## deuter

ultrainferno said:


> There still isn't a dedicated CS300F thread?





Well no longer it is the FOTM


----------



## johnkock

Hi Makube,
 I have the same issue. I tried contact spray but no success. dit you manage to solve the issue?
  
 Thx, John


----------



## Textfeud

Proud owner of a Leben CS300 since today. I don't have a DAC right now (traded my Burson Conductor Virtuoso and cash for it) so I'm listening via my turntable now. It's a very honest amp and the soundstage on the HE-500 is deeper than I ever heard it. I do get clipping/distorted bass when I crank the volume though. But that might be the turntable that doesn't play loud to begin with, so hopefully that won't be the case with a DAC. 
  
 It's a beauty to look at by the way. So sexxxxy.


----------



## Textfeud

Hey guys,
  
 My Leben is from 2012. How can I check if it has the 270ohm resistor or 1.3K/1.4K resistor? I listen to planars so I would like to have the 270ohm version.


----------



## ardilla

textfeud said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My Leben is from 2012. How can I check if it has the 270ohm resistor or 1.3K/1.4K resistor? I listen to planars so I would like to have the 270ohm version.


 
  
 Send your SN to Leben - they helped me =)


----------



## Textfeud

ardilla said:


> Send your SN to Leben - they helped me =)


 
 Thanks, I e-mailed them!


----------



## dsticker

I couldn't find any rules against linking to classified listings, but if I missed something let me know and I'll edit this post.
  
 In case anyone is interested, I'm selling my CS300XS.  Here's a link to my listing on Head-Fi classifieds: http://www.head-fi.org/t/802717/leben-cs300xs-with-lots-of-tubes


----------



## zoroastra

It is too bad that you have to sell your Leben CS300XS (Stereophile class A, they say nothing better) integrated amplifier. If properly set up they do sound rather good. If it is because of other expenses of life then I understand, but if you are not happy with the sound, consider rolling the tubes.
  
     To make mine sound it's best, I did replace the two stock 12AX7 valves with new old stock (NOS) vintage Amperex Holland "Made for medicine" (lower noise) valves, and the four Sovtek EL84s I replaced with x4 NOS 60's vintage Amperex designed for Hammond Organs and the notes plumped up nicely. This is what a valve amplifier is supposed to sound like. 
  
      I am also currently burning in two NOS Brimar yellow T 6060 valves for my Leben phono stage, which are still burning in so I can't decide whether better or not than the JAN 6060s that were in there before, but if anybody is out there who also has this phono stage then let me know and I will write back with the outcome. 
  
 Mark


----------



## deuter

zoroastra said:


> It is too bad that you have to sell your Leben CS300XS (Stereophile class A, they say nothing better) integrated amplifier. If properly set up they do sound rather good. If it is because of other expenses of life then I understand, but if you are not happy with the sound, consider rolling the tubes.
> 
> To make mine sound it's best, I did replace the two stock 12AX7 valves with new old stock (NOS) vintage Amperex Holland "Made for medicine" (lower noise) valves, and the four Sovtek EL84s I replaced with x4 NOS 60's vintage Amperex designed for Hammond Organs and the notes plumped up nicely. This is what a valve amplifier is supposed to sound like.
> 
> ...




Sorry, don't agree with you.
Have a read of the guys classified and he mentions there are better amps at the price.

Me being an owner previously of a CS300X agrees.

Its a good amp, but there are many that are better at the price.

I know it doesn't feel great trying to justify a product you own,if its of any help I have been there done that.


----------



## zoroastra

Well deuter, 
  
 I do agree that I have heard better, but not at that price and now not available in the European Union. Shindo Masetto pre-amplifier, £10,000 + did sound better I have to admit. At that price it should. No headphone output, and now no longer available in the European Union because of cadmium and other toxic parts from old world parts. My First Watt F3 did not sound better. My custom build Fi WE 275A single ended amplifier did not sound better, with an audible Illusions modulus 3 pre-amplifier or with just volume pots. I have heard other peoples Classe' and Quads, Macintosh and Boulder, but not heard better than I currently have, but then again, you don't know nor have you heard what I currently have.
  
 I've been in the hobby for more than 40 years now. I was a member of the Oregon Triode Society in the early days when we were experimenting with high purity silver wire, NOS single ended triodes, high sensitivity horn loaded speakers and parts harvested from old movie theatres. I've been through all the BS of "Zero total harmonic distortion", and "perfect sound forever". I've built my own speakers, crossovers, amplifiers, and thrown them out and started again. I've been to too many hi fi shows where I didn't like the sound of anything there. Finally, I have put together a system that I can live with. I enjoy my records again. It is Leben based and will no doubt be the last hi fi equipment I ever buy. Perhaps it is because I am old and jaded that my ears are shot. Perhaps I can't hear anymore the subtle problems this hi fi presents. I am not claiming to be an expert, just someone who has been around long enough to know ******** when I hear it.
  
 How about you? What is your experience that makes you an expert in this field? Please enlighten us.


----------



## longbowbbs

zoroastra said:


> Well deuter,
> 
> I do agree that I have heard better, but not at that price and now not available in the European Union. Shindo Masetto pre-amplifier, £10,000 + did sound better I have to admit. At that price it should. No headphone output, and now no longer available in the European Union because of cadmium and other toxic parts from old world parts. My First Watt F3 did not sound better. My custom build Fi WE 275A single ended amplifier did not sound better, with an audible Illusions modulus 3 pre-amplifier or with just volume pots. I have heard other peoples Classe' and Quads, Macintosh and Boulder, but not heard better than I currently have, but then again, you don't know nor have you heard what I currently have.
> 
> ...


 
 Word....


----------



## dsticker

Just wanted to clarify that I did engage in tube rolling (I'm including 24 tubes in addition to the 6 stock tubes).
  
 I can understand how some people might enjoy tube rolling to find the perfect sound, but for me it was not a fun endeavor.  I was always paranoid that I was going to break something when pushing the tubes into the sockets.  When dealing with a $3,500 amp, that bothered me.  Plus, my memory of sound signatures is not good enough to really compare and contrast one type of tube to another.  They pretty much all sounded the same to me.  Now, to be fair, the sound was absolutely sublime with my LCD3.  But after a while I decided to leave my Leben for a solid state amp (GS-X MK2).
  
 Another thing that bothered me about the Leben was the hum when I listened with my HD800.  There has been a lot of discussion in this thread about that issue, but every "solution" that was offered was beyond my skill level.  I don't think I should have to swap out resistors and learn how to solder just to fix the hum of a $3,500 amp.
  
 As I said in my sale thread, I still think the Leben has a slight edge over the GS-X MK2 when used with the LCD3.  But that edge just wasn't worth it for me.


----------



## dsticker

I already got a potential buyer (pending payment in about a month), so as long as the buyer doesn't back out this sold much quicker than I expected.


----------



## deuter

dsticker said:


> I already got a potential buyer (pending payment in about a month), so as long as the buyer doesn't back out this sold much quicker than I expected.




Good on you , it took me a while to sell mine and had to resort to eBay , these amps are just not what we thought hey would be.


----------



## zoroastra

Good luck with your sale, I hope your solid state amplifier chosen over the Leben gives you years of pleasurable listening.


----------



## ardilla

I think some might criticize this amp on the wrong terms. This it what it is:
1) A great small speaker amp for sensitive speakers
2) A very good headphone amplifier for low impedance headphones. 
If you need both these functions, it is a great choice. As a headphone amplifier alone, some might find it twice as expensive as dedicated headphone amps performing at the same level, but that's subjective. For some it is worth it, others prefer other stuff. It is a piece of grear that ain't for all headphones nor all speakers. Choose your headphones and speakers with care, and it is a great option.


----------



## dsticker

You make an excellent point, ardilla.  I always wanted to try the Leben with speakers, and on several occasions I was almost ready to purchase a pair of Zu Audio speakers.  If I had speakers to accompany the Leben and my LCD3's, I probably wouldn't sell it.
  
 And you're also right about making proper, well-informed decisions when matching gear.  I definitely regretted buying the HD800 when I only had the Leben for amplification.
  
 My decision to switch to a solid state amp was an entirely personal one and I know that most people on Head-Fi (especially those who are interested in higher-end equipment) prefer tube amps over solid state.  I guess I even do, considering my preference for the Leben over the GS-X MK2 when used with the LCD3.  But I also love the GS-X MK2 for its ability to drive many different cans.  And not having to tinker with parts (i.e. tubes, fuses, etc.) is a plus for me, even though many others enjoy tinkering.


----------



## zoroastra

dsticker said:


> Just wanted to clarify that I did engage in tube rolling (I'm including 24 tubes in addition to the 6 stock tubes).
> 
> I can understand how some people might enjoy tube rolling to find the perfect sound, but for me it was not a fun endeavor.  I was always paranoid that I was going to break something when pushing the tubes into the sockets.  When dealing with a $3,500 amp, that bothered me.  Plus, my memory of sound signatures is not good enough to really compare and contrast one type of tube to another.  They pretty much all sounded the same to me.  Now, to be fair, the sound was absolutely sublime with my LCD3.  But after a while I decided to leave my Leben for a solid state amp (GS-X MK2).
> 
> ...


 

 I am sure that you tried NOS (or vintage tubes) and not the Russian remakes, but for the sake of our viewers out there who may not know we should point out that the Leben-CS300Xs (s for Sovtek) comes with Russian-made Sovtek valves in it, and all the new Mullards and Genalex valves available from different retailers out there brand new for less than $50.00 are Russian-made as well. 
  
 The earlier Leben CS300X(limited) were provided with NOS Mullard EL84s. There were not made in Russia but in England back in the 1960's. Same Brimar, and Genalex-Gold Lions. These vintage valves have warmth, solid sound stages, wonderful tone, but yet also reveal bits in the recording often missed with lesser valves. They sound more real like real instruments and singers in space. 
  
 The modern Mullard EL84 remakes (or 12AX7), just like Genalex - Gold Lions remakes, are not made in England but in Russia (completely different equipment, techniques and alloys than the originals). The modern re-makes (fakes) sound like solid-state, nothing like those vintage valves made from the 50s-70s, and since the valves you are replacing come from the same company that builds the replacements, what's the point?


----------



## dminches

I use my CS300sx with a pair of Harbeths P3esr and the sound is wonderful. I also listen to LCD-3s which we all know are a great match for the Leben. It is a wonderful integrated amp.


----------



## zoroastra

I drive a pair of Thrax Lyra loudspeakers and they sound mighty nice too. Though they were designed to handle 20-250 watts, their 90db/watt/meter sensitivity makes they fine with the little CS-300Xs. Bit costly though, and not real well known yet.


----------



## Textfeud

I drive the Leben CS300 with the Zu Soul Superfly and the combo is magnificent to my ears. I'm sure there are better speaker amps and headphone amps out there, but I doubt there is a amp that can do both that's just as good. For me the Leben is the best headphone amp I've tried and sounds very good with the Audeze LCD-2F and Hifiman HE-500. Unfortunately for me it does not sound good with the ZMF Omni at all. After twelve o'clock it goes into clipping and distortion mode. With the Audeze LCD-2F I can't go past ten o'clock without hurting my ears.  I have the 270ohm resistor so that can't be the cause. 
  
 All in all great amp!


----------



## musixs

Initially bought the 300XS for my LCD-X. Then got curious with the HD800. The Sennheiser is like a "speaker" put near on to your ears. I did hear the hum but it has not really been a big issue for me. 
After sometimes, I got bored with headphones and tried to find a matching speaker for the amp. The 300XS has a considerably low watt. Must admit that the choices out there are rather limited. My preferred option was to go for high efficiency speakers.
After sometimes I finally managed to find one that still stay within my budget. I bought Zu - Omen mkII bookshelf. 
It's been almost 2 years now and I'm still very much in love with my Leben. I listen a lot to Classicals and Symphonies. The Leben is very neutral and it's definitely one of the amps worth noting.


----------



## log0

musixs said:


> Initially bought the 300XS for my LCD-X. Then got curious with the HD800. The Sennheiser is like a "speaker" put near on to your ears. I did hear the hum but it has not really been a big issue for me.
> After sometimes, I got bored with headphones and tried to find a matching speaker for the amp. The 300XS has a considerably low watt. Must admit that the choices out there are rather limited. My preferred option was to go for high efficiency speakers.
> After sometimes I finally managed to find one that still stay within my budget. I bought Zu - Omen mkII bookshelf.
> It's been almost 2 years now and I'm still very much in love with my Leben. I listen a lot to Classicals and Symphonies. The Leben is very neutral and it's definitely one of the amps worth noting.


 

 I went on the same trip. I had a the original LCD-2s when they first came out and wanted a nice amplifier to pair them with. I started with vintage audio, receivers like the Luxman R-1120a and the Pioneer SX1250, both drove the LCD's great. Then I went to Leben but not the 300XS, but rather the 600 because I wanted something that could power speakers. Seems like a shame to buy a stereo integrated amplifier as beautiful and sweet sounding as the Leben and only use them for headphones. If anything, the Leben is a great 'gateway' to more hifi if not only an outstanding headphone amp. I went with Devore speakers, initially the Nines but upgraded to the O96. If you're in the market for high sensitivity speakers for the Leben I can't recommend the Devore Orangutan line enough, given you have the space for them. The Zu line also pairs well. 
  
 Be warned though, once you start with Leben you might get curious about that other brand called Shindo...


----------



## zoroastra

With 96db/watt/meter speakers do they reveal any hum?
  
 I was very interested in listening to the Orangutang's before I bought my Thrax lyres, but was not to be. I am happy with the Thrax but still wonder what the sound is like with the orangutang. You don't by chance live anywhere near Norfolk?
  
 Zoroastrian


----------



## log0

zoroastra said:


> With 96db/watt/meter speakers do they reveal any hum?
> 
> I was very interested in listening to the Orangutang's before I bought my Thrax lyres, but was not to be. I am happy with the Thrax but still wonder what the sound is like with the orangutang. You don't by chance live anywhere near Norfolk?
> 
> Zoroastrian


 
 I don't hear any hum. Usually I can hear tube noise with bad tubes, but not any hum even when nothing is playing. I live in FL, sorry.


----------



## musixs

"Be warned though, once you start with Leben you might get curious about that other brand called Shindo..."
 log0's suggestion seems interesting. I wonder how the Shindo would sounds. 
  
 So thus the DeVore's series. It's too bad that there isn't a local dealer here to approach to.
 I've also been dead curious on Western Electric 16a horn.. Read on reviews that it sounds beautiful. 
  

  
  
 Btw. just replaced my DAC to Chord DAVE and connects it to the Leben. It's definitely giving me the WOW effect.
 It's as if Mr. DAVE has just given my speakers and amp a vocal lesson..
 An expensive "lesson" and a pain for the wallet indeed. Though I must sinfully admit that it's damn worth it..
 Total satisfaction...


----------



## tkermi

Hello,
  
 I was wondering how does the phase inversion work in Leben CS300X? For me it seems that the method is a long tailed pair variant, but schematics do not show any tail resistor. Now when tail resistor is absent doesn't that 330uF cap short the signal to B- (and this way no signal for driving the cathode)?
  
  
 - Timo -
  
  
 (WRONG    EDIT:   I just realized that this is a DC coupled long-tailed pair* *instead of AC coupled one that I was more familiar of seeing...
  
 (WRONG    EDIT 2:   Actually still unclear how this works... Can it be same time (AC) GF controlled to the first cathode and DC coupled between two cathodes? Is that 100 Ohm resistor for this isolation reason (seems low value for this) or is it for balancing the output between inverted and non-inverted outputs? And if this is DC-coupled inverter I would expect something like 47K (or maybe even 470K) value for the resistor stated at 470 Ohm. Weird... Also the way the second grid is connected to tube signal outputs through those 1M resistors instead of connecting it through cap to B- is not typical - I think   Anyone got any information about this whole arrangement and its benefits compared to more typical solutions?
  
EDIT 3:   Oh dear... I was so much thinking about Long tailed pair circuit that did not see that it was floating type paraphase circuit. So not cathode driven at all (instead that GF to first cathode). So very nice old fashioned and good sounding phase inverting solution.


----------



## Rainstar

what would be a good USB DAC to use alongside leben CS300xs.
  
 budget is around $1000
  
 can the leben support surround sound or is left and right speaker good enough?


----------



## BugleBoy

I use EE minimax with my CS-300X. I have upgraded this DAC with Amperex 7316 Long plate + discrete op-amp (DEXA).
  
 They sound great to my ear!


----------



## Rainstar

thanks ill be looking to buy one off audiogon or usaudiomart


----------



## BugleBoy

For the sake of completeness this how I use my set-up:
  
 iMAC (with 'pure music' set to integer mode) --> Audioquest jitterbug USB --> Audiophellio USB to SPDIF Converter --> EE Minimax DAC --> Leben CS-300X (furutech fuse, Amperex EL84 and Raytheon 5751 or 7729) --> Proac Tablette reference 8 Signature
  
 I have never tried using the minimax directly though.
  
 Hope this helps!


----------



## mock-up

rainstar said:


> what would be a good USB DAC to use alongside leben CS300xs.
> 
> budget is around $1000
> 
> can the leben support surround sound or is left and right speaker good enough?


 
  
 Metrum Octave MKII


----------



## dminches

I am selling my CS-300SX in the classifieds section if anyone is interested.


----------



## dsticker

dminches said:


> I am selling my CS-300SX in the classifieds section if anyone is interested.


 
  
 You've gotta be kidding me... SOLD...  in a day.  Well, congrats.


----------



## Porkchop1977

HI Leben cs300xs Lovers
  
 I am very new in the tube amp world and also on this forum..so bare with me  I have a few questions about the Leben 300xs as i found one locally here in Denmark.
  
 Im gonna run it with my Linn lp12 and Linn Majik 109 (wall/bookshelf) speakers.. As for phono stage i have a pro-ject phono box ds.
  
 Questions... Are my speakers good to go with the watt that the Leben 300xs offers? Is it cheap of me not to get a good tube phono stage now that i am spending a lot on a new amp?
  
  Hope to hear from some of you guys...
  
  Cheers
  
  Anders


----------



## Torero

Hi,
  
 To connect the HE-6 to Leben CS300XS , do i need of necessity a speaker cable with resistors?
  
 I have seen that sell speaker cables for Hifiman headphones and not indicate that included resistors.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Balanced-XLR-to-SPEAKER-TAPS-BANANA-PLUGS-HE4-HE5-HE6-HE500-hifiman-adapter-/172408802655?hash=item28245d8d5f:g:igoAAOSwr2RYKdlW
  
  
 There is the option of the Hifiman HE-Adapter but i don't want to lose more space in my desk.


----------



## goreshade

Does the CS300xs drive cans like he1000 and lcd3 well ?


----------



## goreshade

ardilla said:


> About the hum issues mentioned above, it is the only drawback for the Leben. But i have had no hum with lcd3, 2, He500, q701 among others. But for high impedance and especially sensitive headphones i do notice some hum. Do you have a chance to try it at home before you buy? I believe local mains power conditions matter on this. It is a magical amp, worth a little extra effort


 
  
 Does the hum happen on low impedance high sensitive headphones like most of japanese headphones ?


----------



## ardilla

goreshade said:


> Does the hum happen on low impedance high sensitive headphones like most of japanese headphones ?




LCD-X and TH900 works fine for me, and i have the high power version resistors in the output.


----------



## goreshade

Do all CS300xs/f come with 800mW headphone output now ?


----------



## Torero

What are the better EL84 tubes?


----------



## PanosK

Hi, 

This thread is amazing. I wonder if someone has compared the original CS300 vs the CS300XS and what are the sonic differences between the two while using with speakers (I understand that with headphones they are identical), thank you.


----------



## bruniroquai

hi there guys!

After search for a lot of options (Unison Simply Italia, Unico, PrimaLuna Prologue Premium, Mastersound Dueventi...) for esthetics, quality, etc I've decided for the CS300 but will be used mainly with a couple of new Klipsch Heresy III. 

My doubts come from the model itself, what are differences, besides tube, between F and XS model? is it easy to find replacement for the F tubes?

Greetings from Spain!


----------



## Lemieux66

Using the CS300XS with my Sony Z1R and it's a superb pairing. No hum either.


----------



## rediazvh

Hi guys
At the moment im listening to my hd650 with my leben, its a superb pairing IMO, yet somehow i keep thinking that the overall sound of hd650 become too thin & bright with the leben, Do someone here have same opinion as i do ? Besides that, hd650 & leben is match up pairing... love this combo


----------



## rediazvh

bruniroquai said:


> hi there guys!
> 
> After search for a lot of options (Unison Simply Italia, Unico, PrimaLuna Prologue Premium, Mastersound Dueventi...) for esthetics, quality, etc I've decided for the CS300 but will be used mainly with a couple of new Klipsch Heresy III.
> 
> ...





bruniroquai said:


> hi there guys!
> 
> After search for a lot of options (Unison Simply Italia, Unico, PrimaLuna Prologue Premium, Mastersound Dueventi...) for esthetics, quality, etc I've decided for the CS300 but will be used mainly with a couple of new Klipsch Heresy III.
> 
> ...


Have you compared unison simply italia and leben side by side? Would like to here your opinion... both amps are great


----------



## ScubadudeSA

Hi all,

I'm eyeing a CS300F with stock and NOS Amperex tubes to consolidate a few headphone amps.  The synergy with HD800 is well-documented but I cannot find much on the Leben amp with AKG K1000.  Anyone here use this combination and care to comment?

Thanks!


----------



## fr9ncisco

PanosK said:


> Hi,
> 
> This thread is amazing. I wonder if someone has compared the original CS300 vs the CS300XS and what are the sonic differences between the two while using with speakers (I understand that with headphones they are identical), thank you.



I had the chance to do this comparison lately with a person i met who owns a cs300X with my own CS300, both equiped with RTC E84L(military grade made by Siemens) and 5751 Jan GE. It happened that we had both equiped our beloved amps with almost the same tubes.(his 5751 Jan Ge are triple mica, black plates wheras mine are standard nos 5751 Jan Ge)
We did the listening at his place on Tannoy Turnberry speakers. Well, there is a difference we could notice, and quite a big to our tastes. I still love my amp, but i really liked what i heard with the CS300x.

To sum up this listening afternoon, we listened on several CDs only 4 or 5, classic, jazz(old and new recordings),  the sames for both amps and before any listening, we let them sit for ten minutes for warming up. 
We started with mine(CS300), on the other amp owner room and equipement. We were having fun, drinking coffee and small cakes, one guy that never listened to that little leben before that was there with us was thrilled and awed, and while listening to my amp, we did get to hear a nice sounding amp with the tannoy. I have to say that on one recording, a violin was very sour and wrinkled my hear, it never happened on my on rig at home, i was quite surprised. 
When we changed for the CS300x, its owner was choked by the sounds of its amp, like it had less mater in sound, shallower in a sense but was way sharper in stereo imaging. I prefered it myself to mine for the sharper stereo. The third person with us prefered mine to the cs300X, for its warmer and eftier sound. When we got to listen to the same violin, it was nice this time and the arshness had disapeared. So in the end, there is a difference, but i cant tell whether one will prefer one or the other. Everybody that is going to spend as much money in an amp IMHO should consider listening to the amp before buying it. Mine is just fine at home, and i dont feel i'll change for a newer one like a cs300xs, even i was quite impressed by the cs300X that was much more on the analytic side. 

Last note to consider here : I  bought  my CS300 in 2014  while it was bought for the first time in 2004, and i liked the sound of the amp i was going to buy on this second hand market.
I got it checked after by a professional for potential worn out components. Nothing was changed on it and every thing was good according to specs. I just replaced all the tubes that where worn out, just after i bought it and it even sound way better. But i can't tell what wat its life before, how it was used(often or not), and from what i was told(by the 3rd or 4th owner) (and from what its worth) it has not been modified in anyway. I have seen in this gigantic thread a chart with the component differences. And on the specs, the cs300x is a pound more heavy that the CS300. I could not find the Schematics of the CS300, to compare with the schematics of the CS300X thats all over the web.

Oh and btw, i use a an AKG K701 and the guy, who owns the CS300X we made the comparison with,  uses the same headphones .


----------



## PanosK

fr9ncisco said:


> I had the chance to do this comparison lately with a person i met who owns a cs300X with my own CS300, both equiped with RTC E84L(military grade made by Siemens) and 5751 Jan GE. It happened that we had both equiped our beloved amps with almost the same tubes.(his 5751 Jan Ge are triple mica, black plates wheras mine are standard nos 5751 Jan Ge)
> We did the listening at his place on Tannoy Turnberry speakers. Well, there is a difference we could notice, and quite a big to our tastes. I still love my amp, but i really liked what i heard with the CS300x.
> 
> To sum up this listening afternoon, we listened on several CDs only 4 or 5, classic, jazz(old and new recordings),  the sames for both amps and before any listening, we let them sit for ten minutes for warming up.
> ...



Thanks a lot for your reply this was really enlightened. I have purchased the CS300X (as the CS300 is not anymore available new) but I suspected there would be differences between the two and I was thinking about it while making that choice. Admittedly the CS300 is the one most reviews were written for so there is really no information on the differences. I'm happy with the X but haven't really listened to the non X version. Still a great amplifiers.


----------



## fr9ncisco

PanosK said:


> I'm happy with the X but haven't really listened to the non X version. Still a great amplifiers.


X version or not, these are great amplifiers I agree. 
There is an interresting chart on page 83 of this thread that tends to draw some components differences between the 3 versions. I noticed another transfo in the X(Limited) version i saw but its not in the 300 version, so I am not sure about the contents of this doc.
Anyway in the end, what matters the most IMHO is that you are beeing happy with your Leben, like I am with mine when every day I listen to music with it.


----------



## Dvdlucena

Hello folks. The leben 300xs seems to divide a lot of opinions in several forums. I have seen raving reviews talking about resolution and clarity, but also bad reviews talking about goo sound, flabby bass and poor resolution. Is there any explanation beyond personal preferences about those differents reviews?


----------



## PanosK

Dvdlucena said:


> Hello folks. The leben 300xs seems to divide a lot of opinions in several forums. I have seen raving reviews talking about resolution and clarity, but also bad reviews talking about goo sound, flabby bass and poor resolution. Is there any explanation beyond personal preferences about those differents reviews?



Audio is all about personal preference anyhow so you can only judge by auditioning yourself. For what is worth every professional reviewer I know of that tested it gave it an exceptional review when it came out.


----------



## fr9ncisco

Hello all,
Well, i have read so many articles praising the qualities of this amp while some may be reserved about its power, none of them mentioned flabby bass and poor resolution, therefore i am quite surprised and curious to know where you found these negatives reviews, could you by any chance provide some links ? 
I can't agree more with PanosK, you should try to go to a hifi store to get a chance to hear a CS300xs with your own CDs, your hears for sure will decide what to think about this amp. 
As for an explanation, i hope those people who wrote negative comments may have provided some elements to explain their poor listening experience, but beyond that i can't guess without reading those reviews. 
A wild guess would be : wrong phase power plugging - some amps like this one are sensitive to it, and any other source connected to it as well. I remember i red  a lot of posts on french forums about this problem about many amps and how it affects listening experience. For example: http://whatishifi.blogspot.fr/2017/05/power-cord-polarity-line-phase.html , this is all i can think of.
fr9ncisco


----------



## Dvdlucena

fr9ncisco said:


> Hello all,
> Well, i have read so many articles praising the qualities of this amp while some may be reserved about its power, none of them mentioned flabby bass and poor resolution, therefore i am quite surprised and curious to know where you found these negatives reviews, could you by any chance provide some links ?
> I can't agree more with PanosK, you should try to go to a hifi store to get a chance to hear a CS300xs with your own CDs, your hears for sure will decide what to think about this amp.
> As for an explanation, i hope those people who wrote negative comments may have provided some elements to explain their poor listening experience, but beyond that i can't guess without reading those reviews.
> ...


 there are several bad reviews, or simply average... this is the most hard core one

http://www.changstar.com/www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,115.0.html


----------



## PanosK

Dvdlucena said:


> there are several bad reviews, or simply average... this is the most hard core one
> 
> http://www.changstar.com/www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,115.0.html



In all fairness this is an anonymous guy using a cat as his avatar that spent 5' writing a paragraph about a unit that he auditioned that nobody knows where it came from. Are you seriously going to base your decision on such a review?


----------



## Lemieux66 (Mar 7, 2018)

The Leben 300 series are low-powered tube amplifiers. This automatically means there's a requirement to take a lot of care with speaker matching. This is not a 100 Watt solid-state amp and shouldn't be expected to have the driving ability or flexibility of one. I think sometims people expect a universal panacea opinion on equipment which just oversimplifies matters.

Paired with high-sensitivity speakers, with a decent impedance characteristic,  the technical shortcomings of designs like the Leben are not an issue.

I use mine with little Harbeth P3ESR speakers which - although of low sensitivity - have an impedence which never drops below about 6 Ohms with a gentle curve. I sit fairly close (less than 2m away) and play at mostly low to moderate levels. I could not want for more.

I have to also add that the Leben CS300XS has been wonderful with the LCD3 and Z1R.


----------



## StillaStillsFan

Hi 

Does someone have an owners manual for the 300x that they can email to me?

I also trying to determine the origin of hammond-labeled el84s that are in this amp.

Thanks 

Don
Donroth45@yahoo.com


----------



## -19db

How about a Russian copy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/173828307920?ul_noapp=true


----------



## Lemieux66

Still loving my CS300XS here after 4.5 years of ownership, now using it mostly with the Sony Z1R - it’s a very nice match.

There’s a new Leben CS600X model out now. Never tried the CS600 but always wanted to. Here’s the new X version ^^^


----------



## Dr. Roberts

Occasionally use an NOS tubed CS-600 with the HEK V2 with superlative results. Will have to listen with the Sony Z1R but have always thought they might not be synergistic but now will give the pairing a listen.


----------



## harmony1992

it seems that the differences between 600 and 600x are the pre-part tubes? 12bh7 and 12au7 used in the X ver.
anyone compared the cs600 with EC studio or expensive headphone amp?


----------



## Haidar

Can anyone tell how well made this CS-300X clone is?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/744038531/tube-amplifier-pandora-leben-cs-300x


----------



## fr9ncisco

Haidar said:


> Can anyone tell how well made this CS-300X clone is?
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/744038531/tube-amplifier-pandora-leben-cs-300x



Hi Haidar,
Its not a clone, this is a different beast.

The original leben is a point to point wire solder components, where the amp in the link is using circuit boards. So there is no way anybody can think of this as a clone, except the guy who wants to sell it.

The output transformers are home made in the case of leben. Here you have not homemade ones,  and instead the power transformer way different.
The speech in the add speaks a lot about leben, it's creator , etc...but does not speak about the  components used or any of the skills of the guys who made allegedly a leben clone. To me, it's just a bad sign.

This amp does not look bad in the end, but anyway it does not look like a leben clone to me. I heard many cs300, cs300x, cs300xs. Never this one.
And in case, the sound is not good for your ears, you won't be able to resell it that price if you ever sell it. Selling a famous amp is way more easier than selling an allegedly clone of that famous amp.
It just carry the name of a famous amp, and that is just about it.

Personally I bought a leben cs300  on the second hand market and I paid just a little above the price of this allegedly clone.
This was 6 years ago and I  still own it and listen to it almost every day.


----------



## Haidar

Hi Francisco and thanks for your message!



fr9ncisco said:


> Hi Haidar,
> Its not a clone, this is a different beast.
> 
> The original leben is a point to point wire solder components, where the amp in the link is using circuit boards. So there is no way anybody can think of this as a clone, except the guy who wants to sell it.
> ...


----------



## davehg (Dec 9, 2020)

harmony1992 said:


> it seems that the differences between 600 and 600x are the pre-part tubes? 12bh7 and 12au7 used in the X ver.
> anyone compared the cs600 with EC studio or expensive headphone amp?



I’ve just ordered a 600x , and I own a Woo WA5 and a WA22 so it will be interesting to compare when the Leben arrives.

The WA5 is a fantastic headphone amp - it makes every headphone I own achieve its full potential. It also drives a pair of Devore The Nines to very loud levels and as a 300b speaker integrated, it really is a headphone amp that can do double duty with many efficient speakers, though probably not the Harbeths (It did ok on ProAc super tablettes and Devore Super 8s). It likes premium tubes like all Woo amps and you can hear the differences between stock and vintage tubes.

I bought the Leben to better drive the Devore Nines, which probably prefer a bit more power than the 10 watts of the WA5. The synergy with Devore and Leben is well discussed so I am excited to hear what it can do.  If it also sounds good with my Focal Clears or LCD3s, bonus, but I’m keeping the Woo as it’s that good of a headphone amp.

The WA22 is also special, but more finicky. It needs a balanced source and balanced headphone cables and it is way more tube finicky. But once set up, it’s a great amp especially at its price. 

I nearly bought a used Leben 600 but I was worried about the dwindling supply of line stage tubes, which are no longer in production. I read where the 600 can be modified to the readily available line stage tubes used in the new 600x but in spite of calling several dealers, I couldn’t get a price or sufficient details of whether it could be easily done. So I bucked up and ordered the 600x. It’s near impossible to find a used 600x for sale in the US.

I read where the 600x has a slighty different circuit to account for the 12AU7 and 12BH7, and different “feet” but otherwise it seems mostly the same.

Exited to hear it, and roll some tubes. I’ve owned many EL34 integrated amps so excited to have one back under my roof, and sorry I gave away all my Winged C EL34 tubes as I learned they are no longer in production.


----------



## stringgz301

@davehg I have the Leben CS300 with the Devore Nine's and they are incredible together. Very natural sounding and open. Not sure how that translates to the 600x.

FWIW, here are my tube-rolling observations (with the Nine's or LCD2 headphone):

- pre tube has much more impact on the sound than the driver tube
- best driver tube - Sylvania Blackplate 6BQ6. Also tried Amperex EL84 and Siemens EL84. Both pleasant but don't have the black background, imaging, and natural sound that the Sylvania do
- best pre tube - for a long time I liked the Raytheon windmill getter 5751. Big soundstage (both speaker and headphone), great imaging, and smooth sound. Recently I've switched to CBS/Hytron 5751 and it's a clear upgrade. The CBS have all the characteristics of the Raytheon, but bring additional natural texture to the bass (especially acoustic bass in jazz and well recorded pop/rock like Beatles remasters) and enhance vocals to sound like they are singing right in front of you.  Others I've tried include RCA Command 5751 (smaller soundstage but still pleasant), Amperex ECC83 Gray Plate (bit soft for my taste), Sylvania black plate 3 mica 5751 (good soundstage, not quite as 3d as the Raytheon), and GE 5751 (nothing special)

Either way, you're in for a treat. Enjoy!


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## davehg

@stringgz301 thanks, not surprised the 300 sounds nice with the Nines. I’ll definitely find some NOS pre driver tubes, lots to choose from in the 12au7 and 12BH7 that the 600x uses.


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## Manifest

My first post on Head-Fi. I’ve been a long-standing Grado RS2 owner and have just bought some GS3000e. I’m awaiting a Leben CS300XS landing on 2 days time. Really excited to see, hear and own one.


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## Manifest

I’m sorry for the newbie question but I just wanted to be 100% certain. Is if definitely ok to use the Leben CS300XS with only headphones and no speakers connected? It’s usually lethal to a valve amp not to have speaker connected, so I thought it worth being safe and asking.


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## stringgz301

There is a switch to select Headphones or Speakers. Set it to Headphones and you're good.


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## Manifest

Thanks, I spoke to the importer in the UK. He tells me that the headphone socket is fed by the preamp stage and the only “risk” to using it without speakers connected is running the el84s un-necessarily. Apparently if you are only using the amp for headphone listening, you can remove the el84s altogether and not wear out the valves un-necessarily.


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## seenc

has anyone ever tried to listen to meze Empyrean with Leben cs300?
are there any problems with humm hiss ?


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## Dr. Roberts

The Leben Integrateds are wonky when it comes to using cans. Fresh out of the carton several years ago, my CS-600 exhibited a slight buzz with whatever headphone was used. Sent the unit to Arizona Hi-Fi for a completely separate issue and when it came back, the buzz was gone. Finicky gear that now sounds fantastic powering the Abyss.


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## stringgz301

I have a Leben cs300 and there is always a tiny bit of transformer hum through headphones irrespective of which one. I have both the Empyrean and an original LCD2 and there is a small amount of hum through either, but completely unnoticeable once music starts to play.  In my opinion, the Empyrean needs a tube amp to drive it, otherwise it's a bit flat sounding.


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## fcdvpds

InnerSpace said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Apologies.  I'll fill out the profile when I figure out how.  I'm all CD based.  Right now I use a Meridian G08.2, and HD800s.  The G08.2 was an easy pick after audition.  So were the HD800s, although I bought the LCD-2s, Denon AH-D7000, and Beyer T1s also, just for fun.  But I strongly favor the HD800s.  As far as amps go, with the exception of a long excursion to the Headroom Blockhead, which I still like and use elsewhere, I have always gravitated toward low- to medium-powered integrated amps for headphones.  I keep an eye out for what's available, which led me to the Leben and the Luxman SQ-N100.  I use the Leben with 1950s Amperexes and the SQ-N100 mostly as a test-bed for trying current production tubes.  (I enjoy all the NOS hoopla as much as the next guy, but rationally ... one day they'll all be gone, and some knowledge of the new market will help.)  But I have tried both amps apples-to-apples, i.e. all new or all NOS, side-to-side.  (And I should report a glitch with the Luxman, which was that one set of NOS tubes that worked fine in the Leben produced fearful microphony and RFI in the Luxman - don't know why.  Possibly a serious weakness somewhere?)  But apples-to-apples when all was working well - the Luxman was extended at both ends, energetic, vibrant, and powerful ... not at all tube-like in the conventional SET sense, but not remotely hard or harsh either.  It's a really, really good amp, and I'm glad I have it.  But ... the Leben is better.  It's possibly not as extended in the very low bass or the very high treble, but what it does in between is truly terrific.  It has all the virtues you could want - muscular, powerful, sweet, etc - plus tremendous ... and I mean uncanny ... separation and stability in terms of musical strands.  What a techie would call low intermodulation distortion, I guess.  I think I said upthread that there can be a singer belting it out and a guitar thrashing away, but you can literally (well, not literally _literally_, but as good as) tiptoe through the sonic image and listen to a quiet high-hat figure or the bass player's pull-offs - or anything - and I mean you can walk right up to the guy, walk around him, really check it out.  You can spend time there.  It sounds like a gimmick thing, maybe, but it isn't ... the whole structure and foundation of the music is so solid, so immoveable, that it creates total relaxation in the listener.  I feel it's a huge step forward - for me, anyway - and I couldn't live without it now.
> ...


The Luxman sq-n100 is fixed bias that needs to be adjusted to 32-35ma every time you change the tubes. Have you adjusted the bias in your tube rolling? If not you were not listening the Luxman at it's maximum performance. I entirely agree with yourself view on the Luxman using more generic parts. In fact since long ago they've cone up with all kinds of strategies to make money out of the business including manufacturing in China instead of focusing more on performance like Leben, Shindo, Air-tight etc. Nowadays Luxman is a Chinese company and they have moved the production to Japan as things were not really going well. In the first years of Chinese Luxman they literally used the brand name to sell chinese products that had nothing to do with Luxman Japan. The logo on these products was different and they ended up being a total disaster in terms of reliability. Examples are the sq-n10 amplifier and the sq-d10 cd player. It's chinese stuff hidden behind Luxman brand. Don't take me wrong, I have nothing against Chinese products but I do prefer honest Chinese stuff than Chinese stuff pretending to be Japanese high-end. I would not be surprised if present made in Japan luxman products were made with Chinese transformers. That being said, I have both the Luxman sq-n100 and the Leben CS300xs. I haven't audited the Leben long enough for a conclusion but I do find the Luxman an outstanding amplifier and will report more later on.


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## StillaStillsFan

If need be, where can one purchase rca input connector block for Leben 300x? I have one channel on input that does not do the best job of accepting the interconnect.  Since there are effectively six inputs including tape monitor, I can live with this but eventually would like to take care of this.  I don’t ever really want to ship this so would rather get the part and take care of it locally.  Thanks, Don


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## Loftprojection

fcdvpds said:


> I have both the Luxman sq-n100 and the Leben CS300xs. I haven't audited the Leben long enough for a conclusion but I do find the Luxman an outstanding amplifier and will report more later on.


What great news, those two amps have been tempting me for quite a while, really looking forward to read your comments.


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## fcdvpds

2359glenn said:


> The majority of the hum is coming from the output transformers mounted to close to the power/mains transformer.
> A choke is not going to get rid of this the only thing is to put the power transformer in a separate box.
> Or replace it with a high quality C core transformer.  Both of these would be quite a undertaking for the average person.
> If the transformer was replaced with a Lundahl C core transformer no more hum. The Lundahl transformers do not
> make a large magnetic field like cheep E-I core transformers.


My Leben is super quiet


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## davehg

I have a 600x that hummed a teeny bit. I recently added an Audioquest Niagara 1200 which quieted the hum


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## pspentax

The Leben CS300X Limited in it’s preferred place 🤣


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## fr9ncisco

Manifest said:


> Thanks, I spoke to the importer in the UK. He tells me that the headphone socket is fed by the preamp stage and the only “risk” to using it without speakers connected is running the el84s un-necessarily. Apparently if you are only using the amp for headphone listening, you can remove the el84s altogether and not wear out the valves un-necessarily.


Hello,
Well I red the same thing somewhere else.

I have a strong issue with this: If you make a mistake with the headphones switch position, I am not sure it won't damage the amp. 

With kids around, touching things here and there, this risk with the wrong switch position  is increased(well i noticed it they do 

I have no special concerns my self as I use my cs300 with headphones and speakers. So I feel ok with kids fooling around.

However,  I always wondered if some of leben cs300 headphones only users here run effectively their amp without any el84. Anyone doing this ?


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## Matro5

pspentax said:


> The Leben CS300X Limited in it’s preferred place 🤣


 Would love to hear more about this setup. Congrats on what must be a wonderful room.


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