# Digital out: Optical or Coaxial?



## bluesaint

What would be the better choice if your DVD player had both? Which should you use for best sound? I see most cable manufactures making the coaxial type while not as much for optical.


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## Ebonyks

There's quite a bit of arguement in this area, i personally lean towards optical assuming that you use a glass cable. Glass cables can be had for around 50 dollars, and are supposed to sound great. Plastic fibers may sound worse than a good coax cable.


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## jpelg

Ebonyks is right in that there is a lot of debate about this subject. I think the answer for you may lie in your DAC (which I assume is what you are using), and how it handles things like jitter.

 I've had no problems with even a cheap optical cable. But most people here would probably say to go coax.

 Do a search. There is probably enough to keep you reading for a while.


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## robert

well........ i had been using my jvc mini system -> novaIII+ -> adcom gda-600. then i got out my yamaha cd player -> monster digital -> adcom gda-600. the wire sounds better. on the other hand, the yamaha doesn't have optical too, so i can't do an A/B. but if bits is bits off the pickup, then wire is better.


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## Howie

Lots of debate yes but the consensus is coaxial cable (unless it's a propriety optical cable which is different anyways).

 There's a reason why some budget players will have optical but no coaxial while high end players will almost always have coaxial and many times no optical. Magazine measurements anyhow have almost always confirmed that more information are dropped using optical connections.


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## HanssoN

I have no experience in this are whatsoever, but I've been told that coaxial cables are better (when using short lengths) as there is no need to convert the original signal to an optical one. This said, the optical cables aren't supposed to degrade the sound quality very much even when long cables are being used.

 (This information could be completely screwed up, but I'm hoping for someone to correct me if I'm wrong. =))


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## DarkAngel

If your gear has well designed optical I/O to me the new glass toslinks have surpassed the best RCA (spdif) cables.

 I just sold a $300 AZ Mc2 because a $29 1.5 meter glass toslink was better in all respects on my Bel Canto Dac 2, this is a cable discussed at AA and sold on Ebay.

Glass Toslink 

 Just to confuse you further it sounds different depending on cable direction, I use cable oriented opposite direction of writing on cable direction (instead of normal signal follows direction of writing)........this cable originally discussed by Todd Krieger at AA.

 This is the best upgrade for the money I have ever made in all my years of being an audiophile! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (this generic glass toslink also beat out my Wireworld Supernova III glass toslink quite handily, I even bought two of them)


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## bluesaint

DA,

 I'm reading his description and found a portion that is quite confusing. 


 Glass fiber optic transmission allows superior high resolution, amazing clarity reproduction, ultra spatial effects and dynamic impact. It's ideal for use with DVD, DVD Audio, *SACD*, CD, D-VHS, game console, S/PDIF, Dolby DigitalR and DTSR professional audio applications. 

 Since when can you digi out sacd?


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## DarkAngel

I guess what he means is some SACD players have CD optical output........but I don't own a SACD player so I am not a good person to ask, also I believe many SACD players also have DVD capability and feature both coaxial and optical outputs.

 My set-up is:

 Musical Fidelity CDP -> Bel Canto Dac 2 -> Musical Fidelity Preamp

 I use the glass toslink from CDP to Dac.


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## lan

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*I just sold a $300 AZ Mc2 because a $29 1.5 meter glass toslink was better in all respects on my Bel Canto Dac 2, this is a cable discussed at AA and sold on Ebay. * 
 

Hmm at that price, I might just have to try it


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by lan _
*Hmm at that price, I might just have to try it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

At that price, I just did


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## zeplin

DarkAngel,
 thanx soooooooo much for introducing me to the glass toslink. i had no idea that toslink has been improved. i MUST get one very soon! i have no doubt that it will sound better. now, i don't really have that much of a high end system, but i would imagine that the improvement will be worth it...i say on any system it would! thanx again man, it is greatly appreciated


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Just to confuse you further it sounds different depending on cable direction, I use cable oriented opposite direction of writing on cable direction (instead of normal signal follows direction of writing).....* 
 

Just got cable, and will install in opposite direction of writing...just how long is the burn-in period?


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*Just got cable, and will install in opposite direction of writing...just how long is the burn-in period? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

I don't think there is really very much break-in period, the improvement was obvious from 1st minute of installation for me, but probably need a couple days before making any final conclusions.

 If you orient signal "same" direction as writing on cable you will find sound is slightly brighter/more forward......this is really surprising to me. (perhaps it is my imagination) I preferred the more relaxed sound of signal going opposite direction of writing on cable.

 Todd Krieger said same thing at AA, but did not disclose to anyone which direction he oriented his cable to get the sound he preferred


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## jb4555

If you a cd player that offered both optical and dig coax, but you had a DAC that only accepted Dig Coax, would it be better to just use the Dig Coax, or use optical out of the cdp and then use a converter to convert into Dig Coax? Will the converter affect sound?


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*I don't think there is really very much break-in period, the improvement was obvious from 1st minute of installation for me, but probably need a couple days before making any final conclusions.
* 
 

Yep. It took all of about six seconds to notice the difference. At first I thought the glass cable was worse, but then realized I was hearing crappy production on the CD. I got out a better disk, and the improvement over coax was obvious (running Sony 9000ES into Outlaw 950). I A/B'ed briefly, and pulled the coax. Percussion was right using the glass optical, but smeared using the coax. So, the coax will go elsewhere...

 jb4555, if your DAC only accept coax, use it. There's no point to adding an optical to coax convertor, as it will only hurt the sound. The signal chain will only be as good as the weakest link.


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## DarkAngel

*Yes Hirsch,*
 this has to be the best bang for the buck cable upgrade I have ever made.....plus glass toslink is very lightweight & flexible vs RCA coax cables.

 I have been making some incredible cable "downgrades" recently that have improved my overall sound by a large margin:

 AZ Mc2 digital cable ($300) --> Ebay glass toslink ($29)

 AZ Silver Reference IC ($900) --> Bogdan Silver Spirit Ref. ($269)

 VD Reference AC ($750) --> K-works Empowered AC ($200)

 Marigo Orpheus Crossbow CD Mat ($75) --> Herbies Grungebuster CD Mat ($20)

 BTW if you use "normal" direction on glass toslink you may hear same difference I did ....... some might prefer the more forward sound this offers.


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## Hirsch

I bought a 10-pack of the grungebusters, just to have them near various sources.

 I haven't tried Bogdan or the K-Works, but am getting interested. It would be a good challenge for the Nites...and selling the Nites would cover the costs nicely if they're as good...


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*I bought a 10-pack of the grungebusters, just to have them near various sources.

 I haven't tried Bogdan or the K-Works, but am getting interested. It would be a good challenge for the Nites...and selling the Nites would cover the costs nicely if they're as good... * 
 

I have "only" 3 Herbie's Grungebusters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not to raid your wallet, but this is last day you can get Bogdan BSSR at $269 price...........I'm fairly sure it will surpass the Nite IC for you (although I have only owned a VD Signature IC)

Bogdan BSSR


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*I have "only" 3 Herbie's Grungebusters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to raid your wallet, but this is last day you can get Bogdan BSSR at $269 price...........I'm fairly sure it will surpass the Nite IC for you (although I have only owned a VD Signature IC)
* 
 

Well, I'm in. I'm hoping my wallet won't get raided. If they surpass the Nite, the "downgrade" will actually help my wallet quite a bit.


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## HighwayStar

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*At that price, I just did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Wallet checking in... me too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone know how this might stack up against the Kimber OPT-1 Toslink cable ?


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## lan

Well only like 20+ more minutes for today and that Bogdan BSSR deal. Since it's a silver cable, I'm just afraid my K1000s will become more bright so I'm just reluctant to buy.


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## Duncan

Would one of these glass toslink cables be overkill for connecting my Sony XE570 CDP to my Sony JE770 MDR?

 I'm using the standard (in box) cable at the moment... but don't want to lay out the cash if the improvement would be unheard at this level

 Thanks


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## Sean H

I just ordered one and will have it Wednesday! I can't wait to hear it. I'm using a cheap Toslink from Acoustic Research right now between a Sonica and Cal Sigma II tube DAC. Granted the Sonica/USB Toslink interface may not be as ideal as a Toslink interface in a higher end CDP but I'm betting it's as good as any Toslink interface in a DVD player or budegt CDP. I'll post some impressions in this thread when I get. Thanks for mentioning this cable!!


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by HighwayStar _
*Wallet checking in... me too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone know how this might stack up against the Kimber OPT-1 Toslink cable ? * 
 

EWWWW!!

 Don't do it. This is one of the worst~!


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## HighwayStar

Quote:


 _Originally posted by kuma _
*EWWWW!!

 Don't do it. This is one of the worst~!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

The Kimber ? (I've had it quite a while). I ordered the eBay one to replace it. It's logical glass would be better than plastic, though Kimber touts their "medical grade" plastic doesn't microfracture like glass cables...


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by HighwayStar _
*The Kimber ? (I've had it quite a while). I ordered the eBay one to replace it. It's logical glass would be better than plastic, though Kimber touts their "medical grade" plastic doesn't microfracture like glass cables... * 
 

How does *microfracture* translate into the sonic results?

 if it works in your system, that's cool. It was such an eye opener between the Kimber and other toslinks I had on hand in my systems. whether "medical grade" plastic or not, this was the one of the few cables i've tried in the past that deemed to be unusable.

 For plastic one, Audio Technica was quite a bit better for around the same pricing. 
• AT6D55


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## HighwayStar

Quote:


 _Originally posted by kuma _
*How does *microfracture* translate into the sonic results?* 
 

Not a clue, though I'd imagine microfractures could possibly generate reflections that would increase jitter... but I'm making this up as I go along 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 *if it works in your system, that's cool. It was such an eye opener between the Kimber and other toslinks I had on hand in my systems. whether "medical grade" plastic or not, this was the one of the few cables i've tried in the past that deemed to be unusable.* 
 

I works (as in it functions) but performance-wise I've never had anything to compare it to, but I will have the eBay cable next week.


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## SteeleBlayde

You guys may want to check out Bolder Digital Cables as well. Mine works VERY well, although I cant compare it to anything.

 Bolder says the cable is a great value for money.


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