# Feliks-Audio ELISE...New thread.



## hypnos1

A HEARTY WELCOME BACK to friends old and new.
  
 Let us continue the wonderful work and camaraderie of so many on the old Feliks thread...
  
 I look forward to meeting you all once more, and hearing of your further experiences with this marvellous amp.
  
 CHEERS EVERYONE!!
  
 CJ
  
 ps.....Some links you might find useful - especially the old thread : 'Feliks-Audio ELISE...(previously 6SN7 + 6AS7G prototype)', where there is a wealth of info and advice on many subjects, not just this amp and tubes!
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/732875/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype
http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews
http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts
http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here
  
  
  
 For the Feliks-Audio site  :  http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en
 For direct email contact with Lukasz at F-A  :  info@feliksaudio.pl


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## MIKELAP

hypnos1 said:


> A HEARTY WELCOME BACK to friends old and new.
> 
> Let us continue the wonderful work and camaraderie of so many on the old Feliks thread...
> 
> ...


 
 So many tubes so little time !


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## UntilThen

subbed and eagely awaiting the arrival of my Elise.
  
 A pair of Philco 6N7G just arrived still waiting on the adapters for ECC31 to 6SN7.


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## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> subbed and eagely awaiting the arrival of my Elise.
> 
> A pair of Philco 6N7G just arrived still waiting on the adapters for ECC31 to 6SN7.


 
 As i was posting my reply to you about getting an Elise ,thread was locked so here's my answer i already have 6 amps and no room lol so would have to thin the heard before jumping in also the Canadian currency really sucks these days would have to add 25% +customs so that was my main reason for not getting one this past spring .But you never know what the future holds .


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## UntilThen

That's understandable Mike. You already have a very nice collection of tube amps and also a big monitor.


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> subbed and eagely awaiting the arrival of my Elise.
> 
> A pair of Philco 6N7G just arrived still waiting on the adapters for ECC31 to 6SN7.


 

 Post a picture of the Philco's, UT!!
  
 2 weeks 2 weeks!!


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## JazzVinyl

A pair of 1942 RCA Gray Glass 6SN7GT's arrived today from a seller in AUS  
  
 So many tubes, so little time, is right 
  
 Cheers to all!
 .


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## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > subbed and eagely awaiting the arrival of my Elise.
> ...


 
  
 6 amps!!! That is a lot!
  
 Which one would go...if one were to go, Mike?
  
 .


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## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > subbed and eagely awaiting the arrival of my Elise.
> ...


 
 Received 2 pairs yesterday   i like them


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## UntilThen

These are my Philcos 6N7G that just came. I think they look gorgeous.


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## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > untilthen said:
> ...


 
 That would be a hard choice because i actually listen to all of them for example for the LD i probably have atleast 100 tubes for it so i would keep it I probably would let go the WA6 maybe the way this thing is going i will just probably find some room lol .Like i said it never ends lol.


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## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> These are my Philcos 6N7G that just came. I think they look gorgeous.


 
 Will have to find  a pair of those but i dont want to pay ill just have to be patient the search continues .


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> These are my Philcos 6N7G that just came. I think they look gorgeous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## UntilThen

Time machine??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Post a pic of your RCAs JV.


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## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Received 2 pairs yesterday   i like them


 
 I am glad the 6N7G straight glass works for you Mike. I have the metallic 6N7 Marconi coming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Folks I got a full refund for the ECC31s so I will be shopping for a new pair. Credit to the seller who refunded without any fuss even though he doesn't accept returns.


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## Suuup

Why was the other thread locked?


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Time machine???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
Transported in time and space to the moment and the room where the music was made!​  ​ ​


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## UntilThen

Too beautiful.
  
 Suuup the answer is in my PM to you.


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## UntilThen

Top of the 2 Philco looked different.


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Top of the 2 Philco looked different.


 
  
 Will be interesting to see if they sound different.  Joybringers look like the one on the left.  GM has no fins up top like these.  Joybringers have a little less bass, but a more refined upper end...
  
 .


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## mordy

Hi All,
  
 Had a nervous moment when I saw that the thread was locked. Phew!
  
 Now I know that I can still communicate and learn from all the kind, helpful and wonderful people on this thread. 
  
 I have a pair of Sylvania/Arcturus 6N7G tubes coming as well as the adapters, and also a pair of re-labeled 6AS7GA tubes with copper rods. Possibly they are made by RCA, or maybe they are GE tubes - we have to see what they are.
  
 I wish us all happy listening and happy tube rolling with the Elise with humility (and not breaking the bank lol).


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## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Had a nervous moment when I saw that the thread was locked. Phew!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello Mordy...
  
 Your "Sylvania/Arcturus 6N7G" are in the ST envelope?
  
 These sound good too: "6AS7GA tubes with copper rods".
  
 .


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## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Was under the impression that all 6N7G tubes have the ST envelope - hope I did not make a mistake...
  
 If I understand correctly, the 6N7 tubes have a metal envelope, and the 6N7GT a straight glass envelope.
  
 Bought from a seller without seeing any pictures. Arcturus is a very old brand famous for blue colored glass, but they stopped production perhaps in the 40's. Since they were located in the same town as Tung Sol, perhaps TS absorbed the brand  This is only a guess because later Arcturus tubes seem to be rebranded from different US/foreign? manufacturers with different boxes than the original ones.
  
 Could not find any good information on this brand - shrouded in mystery as so many other tube manufacturers.
  
 Here are some original Arcturus tube boxes:




  
 Here are later boxes (rebranded?:
  




  
 One of these tubes has the famous blue glass - which one:


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## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Was under the impression that all 6N7G tubes have the ST envelope - hope I did not make a mistake...
> 
> If I understand correctly, the 6N7 tubes have a metal envelope, and the 6N7GT a straight glass.




Mordy, those are beautiful!! Best of luck with them. I know the brand, didn't know they ceased production that far back. 

You are right on with the (3) 6N7 type descriptions. You want the larger ST envelope ones (seem to be earlier production as well). 

Cheers!!

.


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## UntilThen

Arcturus is a good brand indeed and that blue tube looks lovely.


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## UntilThen

An old favourite which I love


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## JazzVinyl

The 1942 RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT's are FAB for a digital source.

Still prefer the late 50's Sylvania rebrands for Analog from Vinyl, however.


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> An old favourite which I love



Yes, it was very well done. I always liked "Seagull" off that album, too. 

Ready For Love, we always listened to on the 1972 Mott The Hoople LP: "All The Young Dudes" 

Mick Ralphs was in Mott, and later formed Bad Company, and reworked "Ready For Love", and of course 
had a big hit with it 

Cheers!!!

.


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## hypnos1

First off...GREAT TO SEE YOU GUYS ONCE MORE. Sorry for this late post  - curse our time difference, lol! - but my usual late night listening session turned into something rather more traumatic!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. However....we're now back on track...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:
  


untilthen said:


> These are my Philcos 6N7G that just came. I think they look gorgeous.


 
  
 Ooohhh - those look real nice, UT. Should sound real nice too, I suspect!...(can't begin to imagine the waiting pain you must be going through...but hang in there!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


mikelap said:


> As i was posting my reply to you about getting an Elise ,thread was locked so here's my answer i already have 6 amps and no room lol so would have to thin the heard before jumping in also the Canadian currency really sucks these days would have to add 25% +customs so that was my main reason for not getting one this past spring .But you never know what the future holds .


 
  
 Wow, M...lovely collection, painful choices! Those taxes etc. sure are killer...real shame. Perhaps someone from over here will be paying a visit over _there_ one day, lol...live in hope...
 But it's great to see you back with us Elise lovers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


suuup said:


> Why was the other thread locked?


 
  
 No gory details...but for the info of others also, let's just say a certain member went too far.
  
 But nice to see we're up and running again once more...just hope all our friends find this new thread!
  


mordy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Had a nervous moment when I saw that the thread was locked. Phew!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you also soon found the new thread, mordy...we - ALL of us -  still have much to do in the pursuit of audio nirvana...via this wonderful amp "Elise"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> Mordy, those are beautiful!! Best of luck with them. I know the brand, didn't know they ceased production that far back.
> 
> You are right on with the (3) 6N7 type descriptions. You want the larger ST envelope ones (seem to be earlier production as well).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...yes indeed - "Coke Bottles" all the way, lol!


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## UntilThen

Hi H1 good morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's 6:15pm for me here lol. We're talking across the oceans.
  
 Wish me luck I'm committing to buying 2 of these. Was told the wordings are exactly the same as those in the photo and that they are NOS and tested. So hoping this time it's some shiny tubes.


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Hi H1 good morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They are beautiful!
  
 Definitely good luck with them.  Will you return the first pair you bought?
  
 .


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## nephilim

If you got the picture from the actual offer we've bought from the same seller. My pair looks good but the tubes have mixed heat fin arrangements.


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## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Hi H1 good morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...from the other end of the world even!...at 4pm.
  
 Those certainly do look the business...and best wishes do indeed go to you - that they have a safe and speedy(?!) journey to you, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. As for luck, once safely installed I'm quite sure you will be blown away...no luck needed!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And I - plus others, no doubt. - cannot wait to see how they compare with your 6N7G "Cokes"...mind you, I'm not sure I want to hear that the latter sound just as good, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But what I'd really like to know is - given the number of hours all these NOS tubes need to truly shine, where will you find said hours in the day??...with this I DO wish you luck, mon ami...


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## UntilThen

Hi JV, I returned the 1st pair of ECC31s. There's definitely no need for 2 pairs of these awesome tubes. 
  
 H1, I secretly wish that the 6N7G would equal or perform better than the ECC31 as it's better for all of us pocket wise. We shall see.
  
 A seasoned forum user/reviewer here whom I respected gave his Top 5 6SN7 ranking quite a while ago. I believe they still hold true now:-

Mullard ECC32/CV181
Brimar CV1988/6SN7GTY
Mullard ECC33
Tung Sol black glass round plate 6SN7GT
Sylvania 6SN7W metal base
  
 I will take my time with the tubes I've bought so far. It's probably enough for me now. I have no preference at this point on the tubes. I will love them all even the cheapest ones. I only paid $17.50 for each of the 6N7G Philco. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Nep is this the seller you got your ECC31 from?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191687114164?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Had a nervous moment when I saw that the thread was locked. Phew!
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy, eagerly awaiting your impressions of the 6N7G when it arrives as well as the 6AS7GA with copper rods. Copper rods gets me excited lol.
  
 It is indeed a group of kind, helpful and wonderful people on this thread. I remember the movie 'A Few Good Men'. The rest will come eventually. Would love more to join us discussing Elise and all the tubes, gears that goes with her.


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## UntilThen

I'm curious what stands do you use for your tubes. I use this and it's cheap.


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm curious what stands do you use for your tubes. I use this and it's cheap.


 
  
 Very nice!  Going to be saving my tape spools from now on!


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## MIKELAP

Those of you who are using the 6N7G tubes what do you find this tube  has over a steel 6N7  or a 6N7GT i dont seem to hear much difference when i compare the steel and the GT to a ECC 31 is it the clarity the warmth 3 d soundstage or something else its seems to be very subtile differences.imo .


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## JazzVinyl

Here is the "Well Tempered" turn table, playing "The Boston Rag" from Steely Dan's "Countdown To Ecstasy" the 1973 LP on ABC.
  
​  
  
  
 Also of note:  Phil Woods passed away day before yesterday.  He played the famous Sax parts on Billy Joel's 1977 hit "Just the Way You Are",  Paul Simon's "Have a Good Time"
 and Steely Dan's "Doctor Wu".  He was also well known to the Jazz idiom.  Rest In Peace, Phil.
  
  
 Hope everyone has a fun weekend!
  
 .


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## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Those of you who are using the 6N7G tubes what do you find this tube  has over a steel 6N7  or a 6N7GT i dont seem to hear much difference when i compare the steel and the GT to a ECC 31 is it the clarity the warmth 3 d soudstage or something else its seems to be very subtile differences.imo .


 
  
 Hello Mike...agreed the Steel and GT envelopes are similar.  Think you will find the ST bottle version a big step up in clarity and depth.  They are inexpensive at the moment, so I would encourage you to give them a whirl.
  
 .


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## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Those of you who are using the 6N7G tubes what do you find this tube  has over a steel 6N7  or a 6N7GT* i dont seem to hear much difference when i compare the steel and the GT to a ECC 31* is it the clarity the warmth 3 d soundstage or something else its seems to be very subtile differences.imo .


 
 This is amazing discovery Mike. I think my hobby just got cheaper.


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## JazzVinyl

> Originally Posted by *MIKELAP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just compared metal to ST 6N7's...I do like ST better...do think ST takes it with additional separation between instruments.  But metal is no slouch, less "forward"?.
 I have no ECC31 yet, to compare.
  
 But this is similar to what H1 says....ECC31 as one driver and FDD20 as the other (FDD20=6N7G 'ST' in 12v & different base), and he thinks they are very comparable as well.
  
 .


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## UntilThen

Are you referring to these when you say metal?


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## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Are you referring to these when you say metal?


 
 Yeppers 
  
 Unlike the C3g's there is no glass envelope underneath.  The "envelope" is metal.
  
 .


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## UntilThen

I decided to give the GE 6AS7GA tube another spin. It was highlighted by Mordy much earlier. I needed to satisfy myself how this would perform in the Darkvoice 336se. I paired it with RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass VT231 and sat down for a good listen.
  
 I was surprised this time how much more lively, airy and clean sounding it is with good extension at the top. Soundstage is deep. Good timing and good sound density. It is neither brittle or lean sounding or too warm. Bass is where it should be with good impact.
  
 Strongly recommended and at $11 each from Parts Express be sure to grab a pair and try it out. You won't be disappointed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


 P/S I don't work for Parts Express nor do I own GE stocks


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## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, it was very well done. I always liked "Seagull" off that album, too.
> 
> Ready For Love, we always listened to on the 1972 Mott The Hoople LP: "All The Young Dudes" m
> 
> ...




Wow, you guys are old, as I remember all that stuff.

Speaking of motorcycles, I have 6 of them. Getting older, only rode about 8000 kms this summer.

My Elise is #5 in te que:frown:


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## UntilThen

Aqsw welcome to the 70s. You have 6 motorcycles? All Harley Davidson? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You must have a fun childhood.
  
 No. 5 is only 3 from me.


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## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw welcome to the 70s. You have 6 motorcycles? All Harley Davidson?   You must have a fun childhood.
> 
> No. 5 is only 3 from me.




One Harley 883cc
One Kawasaki 2053 cc
One Kawasaki 750 cc
One Honda 900 cc
Two Suzuki Burgman Scooters 650 cc


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## MIKELAP

I was checking the other thread and it doesnt seem like to many tried the 6F8G/6C8G tubes any comments .


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## aqsw

mikelap said:


> I was checking the other thread and it doesnt seem like to many tried the 6F8G/6C8G tubes any comments .


I have the tubes, just waiting on the adaptors and Elise.


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## aqsw

Listening to Mott the Hoople right now. It's been awhile. Oppo HA1 to Lcd 2.2s.


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## UntilThen

Really like your bike collections aqsw. I really don't know about Mott the Hoople but I do know Bad Company.
  
 Mike just when I thought I have enough tubes. I do like the look of those 6F8G/6C8G tubes with adapters. Share your thoughts on how it sounds.
  
 This is an interesting article on the history of 6SN7. http://www.hifi-tunes.com/the-evolution-of-a-constant-glow-in-high-fidelity/


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## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Listening to Mott the Hoople right now. It's been awhile. Oppo HA1 to Lcd 2.2s.




Hello aqsw...

That Mott album is great...us old guys can appreciate. I have some Ian Hunter solo LP's too, from after
 Mott broke up, careful listens, and some good material there, too.

Your cycle/scooter collection is amazing! Like the idea of a pair of the 650cc Suzuki Scooters, His and Hers?

5th in the Elise cue...good news, too. 

Cheers...


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## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello aqsw...
> 
> That Mott album is great...us old guys can appreciate. I have some Ian Hunter solo LP's too, from after
> Mott broke up, careful listens, and some good material there, too.
> ...




His and hers , Yes.

We went on a ride to Cody Wyoming this year. My wife took a scooter and I took my big cruiser. I use my Burgman in the city all the time though. They are alot of fun, handle well, 
and will do over 100 mph if you want that.


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## supersonic395

Hello everyone, I'm new to this place and was seeking some guidance on a future Elise purchase and would love to have some help please (I also read the previous thread in full )
  
 I'm going to pair it with the Beyer T1 and wanted to ask what the best tube configuration is for the best low end response, overall richness and smooth treble.
  
 Should I get the Elise as stock or with the Melz upgrade or the Sylvanias WGTA nos tubes?
  
 (I do not want to tube roll myself and am happy to pay the extra).


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## aqsw

supersonic395 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new to this place and was seeking some guidance on a future Elise purchase and would love to have some help please (I also read the previous thread in full )
> 
> I'm going to pair it with the Beyer T1 and wanted to ask what the best tube configuration is for the best low end response, overall richness and smooth treble.
> 
> ...




HaHa, You sound like me three weeks ago. You dont have a prayer. Just start buying tubes now, and when you get the amp, start rolling!!


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## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > Hello aqsw...
> ...




Yes, I have the Aprilia Atlantic 500 Scooter. And agree, they are great urban machines and what I use mine for, as well. 



​

.


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## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, I have the Aprilia Atlantic 500 Scooter. And agree, they are great urban machines and what I use mine for, as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very nice. Is that the one that has chain at the back for security?


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## UntilThen

Good day Supersonic.
  
 Several owners of Elise have it paired with Beyer T1 and are very happy. Stock tubes with the russian 6H13C and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue are ok for a start. If you really want great sound try the following combo in order of preference.
  
 GEC 6AS7G and ECC31
 Tung Sol 5998 and ECC31
 Chatham 6AS7G and ECC31
  
 don't worry about the Melz.
  
 In truth I believe you will get great sound even with a pair of Chatham 6AS7G and a nice pair of NOS 6SN7 like Sylvania 6SN7W but the ECC31 has been endorsed by a lot of Elise owners. There is another alternative to ECC31 but only a few impressions so far which sounds good. It's the 6N7G and the FDD20. Don't want to confuse you but my advice start with the stock tubes without upgrades and then try one of the 3 combos up above.
  
 All the best. Hope you get one and join us.
  
 Good man you read the old thread in full. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope you like the jokes too.


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## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Very nice. Is that the one that has chain at the back for security?




No sir, no chain. But it is a fun scoot. 

.


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## UntilThen

The only bike that I ever had is the Yamaha 175cc scrambler when I was 18. Now you guys are getting me excited over those bikes.


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## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Really like your bike collections aqsw. I really don't know about Mott the Hoople but I do know Bad Company.
> 
> Mike just when I thought I have enough tubes. I do like the look of those 6F8G/6C8G tubes with adapters. Share your thoughts on how it sounds.
> 
> This is an interesting article on the history of 6SN7. http://www.hifi-tunes.com/the-evolution-of-a-constant-glow-in-high-fidelity/


 
 Found this, a review of several brands of 6F8G, he's much better at describing sound than ill ever be .                                  Also it seems that Vocals and Instrumental music is very nice with this tube                                                                                                                      gibosi if i recall mentioned that the 6C8G is the same but way cheaper than the 6F8G as a matter of fact i just bought 5 of them for $25.00  happy with that


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## UntilThen

Hmmm I feel the itch now to try those tubes with tentacles.


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## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Good day Supersonic.
> 
> Several owners of Elise have it paired with Beyer T1 and are very happy. Stock tubes with the russian 6H13C and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue are ok for a start. If you really want great sound try the following combo in order of preference.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thank you for your reply.
  
 Okay cool, do the stock tungsol tubes that ship with the Elise add some warmth to the beyer T1 treble and enhance the low end response?


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## UntilThen

I have no experience with the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. I will soon know when my Elise arrives in 2 weeks time. I have read good reviews of it though. This is taken from a user review:-
  
_I was surprised and pleased to discover just what a great tube this is. I expected to hear a bit too much warmth through the upper midrange with a slight roll on the top. What I hear is a smooth linear response through the mid band and into the treble with no roll off. The top end has extension with no grain what so ever. These new production Tung-Sol's have gone up against the best of the best NOS European and US made 6SN7's and they truly are a wonderful tube at an awesome price._
  
 Several users here have those stock tubes with T1. I'll let them chime in.


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## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Really like your bike collections aqsw. I really don't know about Mott the Hoople but I do know Bad Company.
> ...


 
 Wanted to add that rebranding is the name of the game with these tubes so check structure closely when buying singles with different brands you could possibly get a good deal .instead of buying pairs


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## UntilThen

From the link which I posted, RCA was the first to bring out the 6F8G in September 1937. Omg these tubes are old.


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## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> From the link which I posted, RCA was the first to bring out the 6F8G in September 1937. Omg these tubes are old.


 
 Predecessor to the 6SN7 actually


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## UntilThen

I find these tubes combination gives the best warm and lush sound that I love with my Darkvoice 336se and HD650. I have no doubt they will do so with the Elise too.
 Tung Sol 5998 and RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass VT231.


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## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new to this place and was seeking some guidance on a future Elise purchase and would love to have some help please (I also read the previous thread in full )
> 
> I'm going to pair it with the Beyer T1 and wanted to ask what the best tube configuration is for the best low end response, overall richness and smooth treble.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome s395...nice to see we have fresh blood already in the new thread, and that you are attracted to the Elise.
 Hearty congrats also that you took the trouble to read the (sadly locked..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) previous thread - IN FULL?...well done!
  
 It is SO difficult to advise on tube config...there are so many variables - not just the rest of the system, but different ears and personal preference...not forgetting the budget!!
  
 As UT says, don't spent too much first off...and hold back on further choices until we have more feedback from other owners, not just on the (vast!) range of 6SN7s especially but also the latest 'alternatives' that require adapters...and then the range of 6AS7G/6080 power tubes is also great. I'm afraid there is no quick, easy, definitive answer to your plea...just take your time and digest the very informative and helpful info posted to date (probably need a few re-reads, lol!), which will be added to in good measure very soon...
  
 UT has listed some of the very best tubes you could wish for...but they come at a price, and some (especially the GEC 6AS7G variants) are very few and far between.
  
 I too have the T1s (fabulous!) and until we have more feedback on the 6N7G ("Coke Bottle" shape) tubes, the sound you are looking for has, for me, been delivered in FULL only by the ECC31 drivers - helped of course by my GEC CV2523s (6AS7G)! But they (the 31s) are quite expensive - £60 to £65 each NOS from mainstream sources, unless you are lucky (and patient) enough to find a cheaper pair on ebay. (The FDD20 I have found is probably not your cup of tea, as it needs a separate 12V heater supply). Others will verify the superb qualities of the ECC31. The GEC powers are _horrendously_ expensive, alas!
  
 Hope this is of _some_ help to you at least...just remember - _take your time_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and good luck!
  
 Cheers,
 CJ


----------



## UntilThen

Does anyone use Amarra for Tidal? I'm currently evaluating it and must say it's a different experience.
  
 It has software EQ build in for you to tune the frequency spectrum to your hearts content. It's as easy as that. So in addition to tuning with tubes, you have the EQ to compensate for the sound till it suits you. Amarra is a software engine that takes over Tidal's and gives you an improved sonic experience to explore the vast music collections held in Tidal. I'm a computer audio person. The convenience of accessing music at a click and the high quality of the lossless files works just for me. My iMac is dedicated solely for music playback and no other tasks. I have my Windows PC for other purposes.
  
 With Amarra for Tidal, you're positioned in the 1st row of the concert. Music just become closer and more intimate.
  
_Amarra for TIDAL includes professional–grade Sonic EQ and 14 factory presets providing compensation curves for popular headphone models from Apple earpods, Audeze LCD2 & 3, Grado 1000, KEF M500, Etymotic, Alpha Dog and others, while additional presets address popular music genres, from acoustic and classical to jazz and rock. Users may also personalize their presets and save them to be recalled at any time._


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Does anyone use Amarra for Tidal? I'm currently evaluating it and must say it's a different experience.
> 
> It has software EQ build in for you to tune the frequency spectrum to your hearts content. It's as easy as that. So in addition to tuning with tubes, you have the EQ to compensate for the sound till it suits you. Amarra is a software engine that takes over Tidal's and gives you an improved sonic experience to explore the vast music collections held in Tidal. I'm a computer audio person. The convenience of accessing music at a click and the high quality of the lossless files works just for me. My iMac is dedicated solely for music playback and no other tasks. I have my Windows PC for other purposes.
> 
> ...


 
 I've been using Musicbee for several years it handles my 20,000+tunes efficiently this is my main screen


----------



## UntilThen

Ah seems interesting but for Windows only. This is different from what I had in mind but certainly useful for my own large collections of music. I'll give MusicBee a go on the Windows PC. It's free !!!


----------



## UntilThen

So I have Amarra for Tidal going on the iMac and MusicBee on the PC. I couldn't but help agree with Sonic Studio's claim about Amarra for Tidal. Wider soundstage, better dynamics and quieter background. Leonard Cohen sounding even better than I can remember.


----------



## K4RL

Hey all!
  
 I was a little worried when the Elise thread was locked for a few days, but I'm glad to see us refugees have made it out alive. It's not quite the same, but maybe in time, we can make this thread a home! Allow me to spruce up the place with my finest nighttime iPhone pic. Thanks to H1 for the C3gs, and especially for undressing them for a much more interesting picture. 
  
  
  
 I've probably clocked >150 hours on my Elise and I'm thinking of the most useful way to compare it to the Crack+SB. I'll give it more thought this week and hopefully do some A/B comparisons this weekend. Note that I haven't heard the crack in a good, long while now, but off the top of my head I remember it having a noisier background and being less holographic than the Elise is. I expect that much to stay true, heading into side by side tests.
  
 BTW, I also use music bee with WASAPI for PC listening. I'm not convinced that I can tell a difference between that and standard iTunes, except in the case of high res FLAC files.


----------



## MIKELAP

k4rl said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I was a little worried when the Elise thread was locked for a few days, but I'm glad to see us refugees have made it out alive. It's not quite the same, but maybe in time, we can make this thread a home! Allow me to spruce up the place with my finest nighttime iPhone pic. Thanks to H1 for the C3gs, and especially for undressing them for a much more interesting picture.
> 
> ...


 
 By the way you probably know that Musicbee's look will change soon, i also use Wasapi setting with my PC


----------



## UntilThen

k4rl said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I was a little worried when the Elise thread was locked for a few days, but I'm glad to see us refugees have made it out alive. It's not quite the same, but maybe in time, we can make this thread a home! Allow me to spruce up the place with my finest nighttime iPhone pic. Thanks to H1 for the C3gs, and especially for undressing them for a much more interesting picture.
> 
> ...


 
 Lol I have to laugh reading your post K4rl...refugees making it out alive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yes sadly because of a self serving, ego bursting individual who is now banned, we're now in a new home.
  
 Your contribution will come at the right time. An A/B comparison of Elise and Crack+SB will have the world watching and I've got my popcorns and coke all ready. All the more so since you've the C3gs with H1's adapters which that said individual so savagely attacked. Btw that iPhone photo looks good. >150 hours is indeed a good time for a real review of Elise.
  
 I'm hoping for more Elise owners to continue to give their impressions. It's not about owners euphoria. It's about the love for music and the right gear we've found and giving an honest appraisal.
  
 P/S I spend a good part of yesterday listening to Amarra for Tidal on my DV and HE560 and boy was I blown away. I'll be buying Amarra for Tidal but it's going to be hard to return the HE560 to my son. For once I heard a headphone sounding better than my beloved HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

This pack of 5 tubes came today. RCA 6BQ7A. It's quite a tight fit into the 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapter but once in the sound is as crystal clear and dynamic as my NOS 7N7 Raytheon. A bit of burn in is required as there's a little hum being brand new but otherwise Amnesia from the Crosseyed Heart album by Keith Richards sounds really enjoyable.


----------



## aqsw

I got a pair of Thomson 6080WAs today. Beautiful looking tubes. These are new, not nos. Made in France. I'm hoping they will sound good. What would be the difference between new and nos other than age. I read a post where somebody said they sound alike, but you won't get the hours out of them. Thats ok with me.


----------



## UntilThen

The Thompson 6080WA has favourable reviews in the 6AS7 tube rollers thread. They certainly looks nice. I didn't go ahead with my purchase because the shipping cost is expensive for me; the tubes are only $9.90 each. Besides I have too many power tubes already.
  
 Don't worry about it not being NOS. At least it's brand new and you'll have many hours of enjoyment with it.


----------



## aqsw

aqsw said:


> I got a pair of Thomson 6080WAs today. Beautiful looking tubes. These are new, not nos. Made in France. I'm hoping they will sound good. What would be the difference between new and nos other than age. I read a post where somebody said they sound alike, but you won't get the hours out of them. Thats ok with me.




I'm really looking forward to my amp. The first tubes im trying are the 6080s and the 6f8gs.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> The Thompson 6080WA has favourable reviews in the 6AS7 tube rollers thread. They certainly looks nice. I didn't go ahead with my purchase because the shipping cost is expensive for me; the tubes are only $9.90 each. Besides I have too many power tubes already.
> 
> Don't worry about it not being NOS. At least it's brand new and you'll have many hours of enjoyment with it.




I'm in Canada and the shipping was very reasonable. Usually it works against me.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm really looking forward to my amp. The first tubes im trying are the 6080s and the 6f8gs.


 
 That's strange 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The first tubes I'll try are the stock tubes despite all the tubes that I have ready. Don't underestimate the stock tubes. There's surprises in store there for you.


----------



## whirlwind

mikelap said:


> k4rl said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all!
> ...


 
 Great pic....the c3g looks good naked  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have not tried mine yet...but i am going to leave the clothes on


----------



## UntilThen

How can you leave the clothes on after seeing these


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Does anyone use Amarra for Tidal? I'm currently evaluating it and must say it's a different experience.
> 
> It has software EQ build in for you to tune the frequency spectrum to your hearts content. It's as easy as that. So in addition to tuning with tubes, you have the EQ to compensate for the sound till it suits you. Amarra is a software engine that takes over Tidal's and gives you an improved sonic experience to explore the vast music collections held in Tidal. I'm a computer audio person. The convenience of accessing music at a click and the high quality of the lossless files works just for me. My iMac is dedicated solely for music playback and no other tasks. I have my Windows PC for other purposes.
> 
> ...




Looks real good, but I only use Tidal streaming from my phone or tab. (android). Im probably missing out, but I like to keep things simple.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> How can you leave the clothes on after seeing these


 
 Ha....they look great naked.


----------



## aqsw

I also got my 1635s on Friday. They may go for target practice on the weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

Try those 1635 first before you toss it away. It might like you.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup did the hum go away?


----------



## UntilThen

I missed a parcel this morning. I thought it's a tube. This is what I got when I went to the Post Office.
  
 Behold Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup did the hum go away?


 
 JV sent me a new tube. It arrived yesterday, but I wasn't home. I will pick it up when I get home today and try it out!
  
 Also, I'm noticing something new and weird. I'm not sure how to describe it. It sounds really weird, like a noise flaring up for ½ a second and then fading out again. It's not that annoying since it doesn't happen often, but still. Could it be radio waves?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I missed a parcel this morning. I thought it's a tube. This is what I got when I went to the Post Office.
> 
> Behold Elise.


 
 Let me be the first to congratulate you! Congratulations! Let the rolling begin.


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry Suuup I'm terrible. It's not Elise but Malice.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh boy it's sounding so good out of the box. Do I really need Elise?
  
 Seriously it's very good.
  
 I'm so dead now. I'll be listening 25x7 now.
  
 Typical NAD sound. British sound. Warm, lush and inviting. Plug in USB and it pick up 192 immediately. There are 3 filters I haven't even play with those yet. Amp is very powerful. My volume knob is low but it's already loud. Soundstage is noticeably larger.
  
 I was going to use this only as a DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ooooo drove the inefficient planar magnetic HiFiman HE560 with ease.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> JV sent me a new tube. It arrived yesterday, but I wasn't home. I will pick it up when I get home today and try it out!
> 
> Also, I'm noticing something new and weird. I'm not sure how to describe it. It sounds really weird, like a noise flaring up for ½ a second and then fading out again. It's not that annoying since it doesn't happen often, but still. Could it be radio waves?


 
 Sorry Suuup wish I could help you there but I really don't know the cause of your noise.
  
 Malice right now is flawless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 After more than an hour of listening, I turn to DV for tube amplification and NAD as DAC. Ya...this is the real thing. Tube amplification definitely. Wins hands down for me.
 Looking forward to Elise arrival now.
  
 HE560 is enjoyable with this combo now. Takes away the brightness and replace it with musicality.


----------



## nephilim

suuup said:


> Also, I'm noticing something new and weird. I'm not sure how to describe it. It sounds really weird, like a noise flaring up for ½ a second and then fading out again. It's not that annoying since it doesn't happen often, but still. Could it be radio waves?




I guess I know what you are describing, but I hear a similar noise only in the early warm up phase. It's gone after a few minutes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Also, I'm noticing something new and weird. I'm not sure how to describe it. It sounds really weird, like a noise flaring up for ½ a second and then fading out again. It's not that annoying since it doesn't happen often, but still. Could it be radio waves?




Hello Suuup...

It's not unusual for a tube amp to make some strange noises during warm up. Mine does it too, I get some "whooshes" and "pops" during warm up. 

But all settles down after a few minutes, and no more noises. 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Oh boy it's sounding so good out of the box. Do I really need Elise?
> 
> Seriously it's very good.
> 
> ...




Congrats on the new DAC, UT!!

As great as it sounds, the Elise will add 3D soundscape. 

You'll be riding high in the sonic clouds!!!

.


----------



## hypnos1

k4rl said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I was a little worried when the Elise thread was locked for a few days, but I'm glad to see us refugees have made it out alive. It's not quite the same, but maybe in time, we can make this thread a home! Allow me to spruce up the place with my finest nighttime iPhone pic. Thanks to H1 for the C3gs, and especially for undressing them for a much more interesting picture.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi K4RL...glad you made it out safely - looks like there's a few who might have got a bit lost on the way...I do hope they find us soon, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And glad you like the naked ladies - give them them the extended loving care they crave and I'm sure you will fall for their charms...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Really looking forward to your in-depth comparison with the BH - you have a busy weekend ahead, methinks!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aqsw said:


> I'm really looking forward to my amp. The first tubes im trying are the 6080s and the 6f8gs.


 
  
 Your findings re the Thomsons will be very interesting aqsw...but yes, probably a good idea to do some burn-in with stock tubes first to get a 'taste' of the amp's sound, and prepare it (and you!) to get a better idea of what other tubes bring to the table. But it sure is hard to hold back from further joys, lol! As UT says, however, stock is surprisingly good for such modestly-priced tubes...you are in for an exciting journey, I promise you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


whirlwind said:


> Ha....they look great naked.


 
  
 You bet, whirlwind...the only way to go! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


suuup said:


> JV sent me a new tube. It arrived yesterday, but I wasn't home. I will pick it up when I get home today and try it out!
> 
> Also, I'm noticing something new and weird. I'm not sure how to describe it. It sounds really weird, like a noise flaring up for ½ a second and then fading out again. It's not that annoying since it doesn't happen often, but still. Could it be radio waves?


 
  
 Hi Suuup...does it happen only at startup, and for just a short while? If so, the guys have put you right already. If intermittent during prolonged listening, most likely a household piece of electrical equipment switching on/off...'fridge/a/c/heating etc. - especially if you don't have any mains conditioning/filtering. Whatever, I do hope it's just something (relatively!) simple like either of these possibilities...
  


untilthen said:


> Sorry Suuup I'm terrible. It's not Elise but Malice.


 
  
 Ooohhh, that looks one serious piece of kit UT. As DAC for the Elise I should think you're in for some really serious sound also, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All you need now is an Elise...I'm getting rather impatient, don't you know!!


----------



## nephilim

OK, I don't know what to say but at least I know what I feel: happiness )
  
 Today I received a beautiful pair of 5998 and they look & sound great! They bring back a fair amount of sub-bass in my favorite Saint-Saëns recording of the organ symphony - at least since I switched from the bass boosting K712 to the more neutral HD800.
  
 But what is even more amazing: the hum is gone!!! Maybe I am a bit deaf tonight and I need to check again tomorrow but if this turns out to be true then it took me 5 different pairs of power tubes to cure that issue. I will contact Lukasz in any case to hear if he has an explanation. Maybe the amp is still mis-tuned...
  
 Finally I can enjoy the silence between songs as much as the music itself


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Nep. Glad you got yourself a pair of nice 5998. The first time I heard those tubes I was grinning from cheek to cheek like the Joker. It does lift the sub bass of my HE560 too. Not just the sub bass. The whole frequency spectrum is energised. Like the commercial where the bunnies are really alive after you load them with new batteries.
  

  
 Ummm Saint-Saëns really good. Listening to it now.


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> OK, I don't know what to say but at least I know what I feel: happiness )
> 
> Today I received a beautiful pair of 5998 and they look & sound great! They bring back a fair amount of sub-bass in my favorite Saint-Saëns recording of the organ symphony - at least since I switched from the bass boosting K712 to the more neutral HD800.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's great news, n...sure hope it's permanent, lol... No doubt about it, top class powers DO make quite a difference.
  
 As does something I have just confirmed... the benefits of prolonged use of the same tube complement - I am convinced so many people don't give a tube set anywhere near long enough to get their full potential.
  
 Even though my ECC31/FDD20 combo had well over 70hrs' use at my last review, with the 'magic' ingredient I couldn't put my finger on....with another 30+ hrs it is now clear just what it is. Not only is it more detail, but much more obvious display of the recording engineer's mastery of mix and placement... and  the overall resulting 3D  soundstage and 'layering'. Listening to The Alan Parson's Project "Turn of a Friendly Card" for at least the 100th time is like a whole
  
 new experience... how the engineer managed to create such a sound is beyond belief - and only now can I FULLY appreciate his amazing craft... phenomenal!
  
 And so the moral is... Give those tubes PLENTY OF TIME to get a proper idea of what they can do, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

Always good to hear your impressions of Elise and the tubes you're using H1.
  
 These arrive this morning and they are almost new and test very strong. Adapters still on slow boat from China and I can almost smell Elise approaching.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok bye bye Elise I'm buying these instead.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Ok bye bye Elise I'm buying these instead.


 
 Slight price increase


----------



## UntilThen

The adapters came. I'm all ready to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I love it when they send me this note of the Monkey God.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Suuup...does it happen only at startup, and for just a short while? If so, the guys have put you right already. If intermittent during prolonged listening, most likely a household piece of electrical equipment switching on/off...'fridge/a/c/heating etc. - especially if you don't have any mains conditioning/filtering. Whatever, I do hope it's just something (relatively!) simple like either of these possibilities...


 
 It's still there many hours after I turned on the Elise. I think you are correct, it might be the fridge / heating / whatever that is causing this. I live in an old apartment, so it's not all 'up-to-snuff'. Anyway, it doesn't bother me that much, as it doesn't happen that much. It's maybe once pr hour and it lasts 2 seconds, and even then, it's not that loud.
  
  


untilthen said:


> Sorry Suuup I'm terrible. It's not Elise but Malice.


 
 Ah, that's too bad, although that DAC does look really good. Congratulations with your new (other) beauty, then.


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you Suuup. Good thing the DAC came now. Gives me time to enjoy it alone. Had it come together with Elise I'd be totally lost and overwhelmed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So the 64 million dollars question...has your hum disappear?


----------



## UntilThen

ECC32 on sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ECC32-MULLARD-NOS-GREY-GLASS-BLACK-BASE-2-PIECES-ONLY-VALVE-TUBE-/111783701541?hash=item1a06d3ec25


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Thank you Suuup. Good thing the DAC came now. Gives me time to enjoy it alone. Had it come together with Elise I'd be totally lost and overwhelmed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Unfortunately I got home too late last night to pick it up, the post office was closed. I will be picking it up in a couple of hours, as I get home early today. This means more time to test it also!


----------



## Lorspeaker

newthread? wwathappened...i took a holiday from tubes


----------



## UntilThen

lol Lors I thought you retired. !!!
  
 Your good friend H1 will fill you in.


----------



## Lorspeaker

....waiting to pounce on the ELISE2, letting u guys iron out the kinks.. hiakhiakhiak


----------



## Suuup

And so it has arrived unscathed. It even lights up and the music is playing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Once again, thank you ,JV, for this tube!
  
 So far, there is no hum. Well, there was for 10 seconds, but it started the same second I pressed upload on my phone, so I believe that is the cause.


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> ....waiting to pounce on the ELISE2, letting u guys iron out the kinks.. hiakhiakhiak


 
  
 Hey L...good to see you here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...glad you found us (will PM you some history, lol!)...
  
 Away from tubes? - you weren't in ssshhh...*SS* land were you?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Still letting us be the guinea pigs, eh?...Have you no shame, mon ami? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (but don't blame you!!). Elise MK2?...the sound I'm now getting (and others) from MK1 with the latest drivers could only be surpassed by mods that would cost $$$$$ I suspect, alas. Other extras like balanced HP out, for example, would of course appeal to some, but you've been hit with one price hike already...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...food for thought?...
  


suuup said:


> And so it has arrived unscathed. It even lights up and the music is playing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad the hum problem also seems to have been tracked down...there are so many potential gremlins just waiting to spoil our unbridled enjoyment of tube gear...but we usually prevail in the end, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...hope everything settles down for you...nothing worse than "Elise interruptus"...


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hey L...good to see you here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would probably upgrade to a balanced Elise. Im pretty sure I wouldn't lose too much Money. No interruptus though, as I wouldn't sell the original until I had the new one.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 A new mystery pair of tubes arrived - 6AS7GA Electronic Enterprises:

 There is no identifying information except what you see. Triple mica, double circular getter, Gray bakelite base and copper rods.
  

                                                                                                                           This is how the box looks like
  
 It lights up very nicely with a strong tube glow - miniature fireplace lol:
  

  

  

  
 I used to think that all 6AS7GA tubes were made by GE, but my guess is that this tube was made by Sylvania. This is only a guess, based on my perceived impression that only Sylvania made 6080 family tubes with Gray bakelite bases.
  
 Anybody wants to weigh in?
  
 The tubes look fairly old, so the 1960's seem a safe bet. Electronic Enterprises was a rebrander that seems to have started out early.
  
 Sound? Too early to tell, but punchy bass similar to the Chatham 6080; not as refined sounding as the GE 6AS7GA. This is just an initial impression and cannot be relied on since the tubes are not burnt in.
  
 I see some 6AS7GA tubes labeled RCA - wonder if RCA made them?


----------



## UntilThen

Almost identical to my RCA 6AS7GA except for the branding. This sound similar to the GE 6AS7GA which I gave an impression on page 3. I like this construction though.


----------



## UntilThen

I'd like to see in ELISE2 a new name, balanced input and output, a brushed aluminium facia and body and a substantial volume knob. Not forgetting vibration isolating acoustic feet. It has to accept all tubes regardless of heater current. And it has to look more menacing than this:-
  

  
 Lastly one driver tube ....too expensive to be buying pairs !!!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 What do you think about this: Maybe the RCA tube you have was made by Sylvania/Philips? Any EIA code on the tube?


----------



## nephilim

Well, I'm still in awe - the 5998 really removed 95% of the hum which was haunting me for the past weeks... months! They clearly lift off a veil such that the music really shines. Powerful, deep bass and improved clarity. Beautiful treble without harshness, superb detail... I've fallen in love! And I would say that the improvement is similar to the step ahead that came with the C3g and/or the ECC31. I seriously consider selling some of the tubes I've purchased since the Elise adventure began.


----------



## UntilThen

I have no clue whether it's made by Sylvania. Maybe Mr Tube Oskari or Gibosi can tell us 
  
 All it says is RCA NR AAA   6AS7GA  U.S.A
  
 A better picture


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 More confusion LOL - here is another RCA version of the 6AS7GA:
  





  
 This one doesn't look like either the GE or Sylvania(?)


----------



## UntilThen

It does look like my GE 6AS7GA picture on page 3.
  
 There...


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Well, I'm still in awe - the 5998 really removed 95% of the hum which was haunting me for the past weeks... months! They clearly lift off a veil such that the music really shines. Powerful, deep bass and improved clarity. Beautiful treble without harshness, superb detail... I've fallen in love! And I would say that the improvement is similar to the step ahead that came with the C3g and/or the ECC31. I seriously consider selling some of the tubes I've purchased since the Elise adventure began.


 
 Nep I feel the same way too. Sell all the other power tubes but the 5998 cost a bomb. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 How does 5998 with ECC31 sound? That's what I'll be using in mine.


----------



## nephilim

I'm using the ecc31 right now. I'm sure you'll love that combination at least as much as I do.


----------



## UntilThen

Try a pair of GE 6AS7GA for $20. You'll be surprised. 
Value for money stakes it's unbeatable.

5998 is a different category imo. Everything is just lifted like you say as if a veil has been removed. I hate to give this tube more praise than what it already has been given. Will only inflate price more.
I dare not even think what the GEC 6AS7G will sound like at 3 times the price of 5998.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Try a pair of GE 6AS7GA for $20. You'll be surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heaven, UT...sheer heaven...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And goodnight...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> A new mystery pair of tubes arrived - 6AS7GA Electronic Enterprises:


 
  


untilthen said:


> Almost identical to my RCA 6AS7GA except for the branding.


 
  
 Those are 6080s. (Somebody just wanted to call them 6AS7GAs.)
  


mordy said:


> What do you think about this: Maybe the RCA tube you have was made by Sylvania/Philips?


 
  
 Looks like it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

New to me Tubes have arrived:
  
 Pair 1970 Mullard 6080's NOS made in the UK Mitcham factory.
  
 One good ECC31
  
 Pair Ken Rad VT-231 w/clear tops, bottom getters.
  
 Have compared ECC31 to GM branded 6N7G (in ST envelope).
  
 Pretty sure I have a conclusion, but will wait a couple of days and listen to a wide variety of sources and genre's before I make any proclamations.
  
 Cheers to all in here...
  
 --JV--


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Maybe Mr Tube Oskari or Gibosi can tell us


 
  
 Hey, gibosi, why don't you take the next question?


----------



## UntilThen

How's this for size. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Left to right. 
  
 RCA 6AS7GA (which you say is 6080), HP 6080, Dumont 6080WA and Mullard CV2984 / 6080.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> New to me Tubes have arrived:
> 
> Pair 1970 Mullard 6080's NOS made in the UK Mitcham factory.
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice tubes there JV. I suppose you're testing ECC31 / GM 6N7G compared to a pair of GM 6N7G.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Very nice tubes there JV. I suppose you're testing ECC31 / GM 6N7G compared to a pair of GM 6N7G.


 
  
 Yes, I have wondered if the 6N7G's (in ST Envelope),  that I think sounds so nice, compares favorably, to the the more expensive, and more difficult to obtain ECC31.
  
 .


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> And so it has arrived unscathed. It even lights up and the music is playing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello Suuup...glad the 6080 made it 1/2 way around the world to you safely (they actually sent it West, via Los Angeles, then to the UK, then to Denmark, so I suppose it traveled more like 3/4 of the way around the globe!).
  
 Happy for no hum...


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 It is not entirely clear to me what the differences are between 6AS7, 6080 and 6AS7GA tubes. IMHO they are not the same, and sound different.
 As 6AS7 tube has the Coke bottle shape, and the 6AS7GA has a straight glass envelope. I think that a 6AS7GA is the same tube as a 6AS7 in a different glass envelope, but I am not sure. And it may not sound the same either, even from the same manufacturer.
  
 The 6080 is a different tube, but related.
  
 Now, if you look at the picture I posted of the RCA 6AS7GA, it looks superficially similar to the GE 6AS7GA tube, but looking at the top part of the tube, the large black rectangular posts that extend somewhat below the mica plate are very different. At this point I am inclined to believe that it is a different manufacture than the GE.
  
 Hi JV,
  
 As far as I know, all 6N7G tubes have the ST shaped (Coke bottle) envelope. What does ST stand for?:  It means "Shouldered Tube". The later 6N7GT tubes have a straight glass envelope. GT stands for Gran Turismo in cars, but for tubes it just means "Glass Tube", which makes me think that G (as in 6N7G) means Glass.
  
 GT = Grand Touring, which means comfort and style, which leads us to to the 6N7G tube LOL.....
  
 Just got a pair of 6N7G tubes with adapters. I don't have the ECC31 tubes, but something tells me that these 6N7G tubes are very promising. A very short listen without the benefit of burn in gives me the following initial impression:  In comparison to the C3g tubes they a warmer, livelier, more musical sounding, with a beautiful mid range and beautiful full sounding bass, with a wider sound stage.  Don't know yet if they are as detailed as the C3g or have as much slam and impact - need to work out what they pair best with. Sweet, with great mid range and timbre.
  
 Eagerly awaiting your impressions, and especially in comparison to the ECC31 tubes. Maybe we have found a $15 alternative to the ECC31/32 tubes....
  
 Hey, what's going on?  After 11 hours suddenly the sound stage became more holographic, 3D. There is more depth, front to back.
  
 Listened to five tracks, all different. Yep, the sweet spot got sweeter. The extra wide sound stage allows more details to come through. Gotta sleep on this, not used to this. Let's see what's tomorrow - meanwhile I'll let it cook.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy agree there are subtle differences but pretty hard for me to pick them up. Of the 6080, I find the Mullard as being more distinctly different noticeably soundwise. However I only have 4 diff type of 6080. I must say I tend to reach out for the coke bottles more, especially Chatham. Maybe I am thinking of coke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I should buy more of the 6N7G before the price skyrocket LOL.
  
 I'm currently using Chatham 6AS7G and 7N7 Raytheon. These sound so good now on Leonard Cohen they can easily be my benchmark.


----------



## Suuup

Okay, I have to ask now. I've been noticing that A LOT of songs have background noise. Is this just my setup up, or is it actually the songs? There are songs, where there is no background noise, but there's a lot, where there's noise too.
 An example would be Industrial Disease by Dire Straits from their Love Over Gold album. In the beginning the noise is very audible, although it's hard to hear later in the song, when all of the instruments are playing. I know that Dire Straits is known for their very well engineered albums, so this doesn't make much sense to me? I have tried from Spotify and a flac I have of the song, but to no avail. 
 This is also something I started noticing after I got the Elise. This might also be because my previous amp didn't have anything close to enough power, so I couldn't drive my headphones loud enough to notice the background noise.


----------



## UntilThen

Well Industrial Disease is quite an amazing track. Very engaging sound. There's some sound on the left at the intro. Sounds like percussion sticks on the ride cymbals but I could be wrong.


----------



## mordy

HI Suuup,
  
 In the past I noticed a lot more talking between musicians and people coughing in the audience when I started listening to the Elise, something that I did not hear before on familiar recordings.
  
 So the conclusion is that this amp has a much higher resolution than what I had before, and all these little details are revealed in the recordings.
  
 And i would not want it any other way LOL!


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> HI Suuup,
> 
> In the past I noticed a lot more talking between musicians and people coughing in the audience when I started listening to the Elise, something that I did not hear before on familiar recordings.
> 
> ...



That is what I was thinking. This is both a gift and a curse.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> That is what I was thinking. This is both a gift and a curse.


 
  
 I did listen to my vinyl copy of Industrial Disease, Suuup, and didn't hear what I would call "noises".  Did hear the guitar get swamped by a phaser effect at one point, and then, they back off of it.  And did hear during the fade out "I am sick" said right after something I did not catch,  but since it's a "doctor theme" I assume he addresses' the doctor in some way, before he says: "I am sick".
  
 And yes, agree, it's a blessing and a curse.   An album I always loved previously, is revealed as having pretty crummy sound quality.  Eric Clapton's 461 Ocean Blvd for instance...terrible tape hiss on every song, and the start of "Hand Jive" is noticeably distorted
  
 Another album I know well, Manfred Mann's "Somewhere in Africa" side 2 - is now full of tiny details/instruments I had _never_ heard before, and is "new again", alive with sonic treats to hear and explore.
  
 .


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> It is not entirely clear to me what the differences are between 6AS7, 6080 and 6AS7GA tubes.


 
  
 Put simply, these types are defined by their shape: 6AS7G is the one with the shoulders, 6AS7GA is the one with no shoulders, and 6080 is the one with the metal skirt. 6AS7 does not exist. It would be the full-metal-jacket type.
  


mordy said:


> As far as I know, all 6N7G tubes have the ST shaped (Coke bottle) envelope. What does ST stand for?:  It means "Shouldered Tube". The later 6N7GT tubes have a straight glass envelope. GT stands for Gran Turismo in cars, but for tubes it just means "Glass Tube", which makes me think that G (as in 6N7G) means Glass.


 
  
 Yes, G means _glass_ (and implies ST shape). GT means _glass tubular_ (and implies size "same as 6N7GT or 6SN7GT").


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> It is not entirely clear to me what the differences are between 6AS7, 6080 and 6AS7GA tubes. IMHO they are not the same, and sound different.
> As 6AS7 tube has the Coke bottle shape, and the 6AS7GA has a straight glass envelope. I think that a 6AS7GA is the same tube as a 6AS7 in a different glass envelope, but I am not sure. And it may not sound the same either, even from the same manufacturer.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, mordy...they will just keep on getting better and better for a LONG while yet, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ENJOY!!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey Renderman...how's things with the Oppo?...


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Put simply, these types are defined by their shape: 6AS7G is the one with the shoulders, 6AS7GA is the one with no shoulders, and 6080 is the one with the metal skirt. 6AS7 does not exist. *It would be the full-metal-jacket type.*


 
 This is so funny it made me laugh first thing in the morning.
  
  


suuup said:


> That is what I was thinking. This is both a gift and a curse.


 

 It's time to move on to good quality recordings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a few that I'd gladly try out in Elise:-
  
 Roadhouses & Automobiles by Chris Jones
 Retrospective by Christy Baron
 Famous Blue Raincoat 20th Anniversary Edition by Jennifer Warnes
 Café Blue by Patricia Barber
 Retrospective by Rebecca Pidgeon
 The Sheffield Lab Drum & Track Disc
 Closer to The Music Vol1 2 & 3
 Chesky Records 10 Best
 Master Female Audiophile 2005


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,

 Surprise Surprise  Elise is back from the dead and it brought company from hell!

 I took everything to next level, DSD 1X and 2X. Behold!

 Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Raven ...long time indeed. Very nice except the colour isn't matching...blue and red 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 How's the Geek sounding.


----------



## K4RL

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Surprise Surprise  Elise is back from the dead and it brought company from hell!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Hell of a shot, dude!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mullard 6080's as Powers and Ken Rad VT-231's as drivers.

A very complimentary combination. If they were the only tubes I had for my Elise, I think I could be very satisfied with this set.

Smooth across the audio spectrum, nice deep bass, 6th row, center, presentation.

.


----------



## UntilThen

I thought if you get stranded on an island all you need is Brooke Shields. Yeah I could live with only those tubes on an island too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I thought if you get stranded on an island all you need is Brooke Shields. Yeah I could live with only those tubes on an island too.




Well, Brooke wouldn't be a bad accessory to have, too 
Let's hope we have electricity....


​

.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Received two 6N7G tubes - one Arcturus and one Sylvania.









 There is no identifying information except what you see here. Arcturus was founded around 1927 and went out of business in the 1940's. The name continued being used for rebranded tubes until the 60's. The tube looks old so I am guessing that it was made around 1940, but only a guess.
 Interesting innards:








  
 Here is the Sylvania 6N7G: It's name is engraved on the base the same as the Arcturus, but it has a date code of 8 D R and the symbols 7 D on each side of the name (no silk printing on the glass of either tube).








 Another guess - the tube was made in April 1948 (1938?) in factory R. 7 D? Oskari - what do you think?
 A couple of pictures of the internal construction:












 At the bottom of this picture the newly discovered display stand can barely be seen - a roll of 3/4 inch scotch tape with the tube resting in the inside circle. (A little scary; after all it's glass, but what don't you have to do for the sake of furthering the understanding of antique and presumably rare radio tubes.)
  
 In a post yesterday I described the wonderfully wide and holographic sound stage and sweet mid range of these tubes. BUT, do they sound better than than my beloved C3g tubes?
  
 I decided to A/B the C3g and the 6N7G while listening to a high quality mono recording and moving the balance control right and left on my integrated amp with the Elise doing the preamp function.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tftUXJ_uBPA
  
 This tune was recorded in 1929 and is aptly called "Nervous Tension." Has plenty of detail and percussion and fits into the Arcturus time period.
  
_Disclaimer _: This method only highlights the differences between two tubes, but it does NOT describe the differences between the two sets of tubes since the synergy is missing - the sum total is greater than the sum of the parts. You just get two different halves of the recording with this method with the Elise.
  
 Ok, I got it off my chest... The C3g goes lower, has more slam and impact and a more chiseled treble. The 6N7G is overall warmer, sweeter and more musical with a beautiful mid range and tonality. The C3g tubes do not match the holographic presentation and the wide and deep sound stage of a pair of 6N7G tubes.
  
 Will finish with a true story to describe how I feel about which tube is the best: A lady comes into a shoe store and tries on winter boots. Finally she narrows it down to two different pairs. The salesperson asks which pair she wants to buy, and the lady answers: I can't make up my mind, I'll take both!


----------



## UntilThen

Good review of the 6N7G. My Philco has 7P and 7S stamped on the base. The seller listed it as circa 30s.
  
 What about the 6N7 and 6N7GT. Do you have those?


----------



## Suuup

Where do you all buy your tubes? I'm looking at Ebay, but there seems to be very few listings. I got 1 6N7G, but I still have to find another one. It also has to be in Europe, since we have crazy expensive from outside Europe here in Denmark.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...

Excellent detailed photos of your early 6N7G's. My 1940's pair that have fins above the top mica (similar you yours), also have the lighter bass note. 
But the mid 1970's pair do not have fins above the top mica, and produce a fuller, fatter bottom octave.



​GM Rebrands (RCA?) that are sans foils above top Mica and have fuller bass.​


Agree with your "holographic soundstage" comments and agree that they are inexpensive to own. 

These are great to have around for their impressive musicality and 3D soundstage.

Thanks for your post.

Suuup - bought mine on Ebay. Have to be patient. A pair will come along....also need adapters to run 6N7G's...

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> Excellent detailed photos of your early 6N7G's. My 1940's pair that have fins above the top mica (similar you yours), also have the lighter bass note.
> But the mid 1970's pair do not have fins above the top mica, and produce a fuller, fatter bottom octave.
> ...


 
 I've been searching for over 20 hours total now. I even ordered 1 6N7G from Ebay, but that's not enough. Now I think I might have found a place to buy them. Currently awaiting a response, but I'm optimistic. 
  
 Btw I'm curious. Is there any sort of 'end-game' tube, that we know would have an amazing sound, but is too expensive?


----------



## Lord Raven

Experiencing day and night difference with DSD  

 Please welcome Geek Pulse SFi DAC by Light Harmonics Audio. Guys, for the next couple of sessions I will try to hear the differences between an Elise and SFi's on board amplifier that does 2000mW into headphones.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 Yes, it is hard to find these tubes. In addition to eBay you have to surf the internet. Sometimes you see somebody selling all kinds of tubes. Then you might shoot them an email and ask if they have what you are looking for - sometimes you luck out.
  
 The story about the two tubes I got: Found a posting from somebody in Louisiana that refurbishes and repairs old tube radios - looks like a retired US military electronics guy. Contacted him and he said he would look for the tubes. Answered that somebody from China just bought 18 (!) 6N7G tubes, but he has two left - $7 each + shipping $7. He said that it wasn't really worth it for him to bother with, but I tried to be nice and polite. He tested the tubes, said that they were 100% - do I want them?
  
 I figured I'll take a chance without any guarantees and paid him.
  
 I have a couple of feelers out for more tubes from different sellers, but nothing yet.
  
 Rule #1: Be patient, something will turn up.
 Rule #2: Communicate, write to the seller; some of them love tubes and are happy to share their experiences.
 Rule #3: Be patient, something will turn up (from somebody selling his grandfather's left over TV repair shop stock, not a professional seller that will charge top $).
  
 Good luck - lycka till!


----------



## UntilThen

There are still quite a few 6N7Gs on eBay mostly from USA but there's one from Italy and noticed it used to be $99 buy out but now it's on auction starting at $100 !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've bought from Viva tubes before and they are ok. They have quite a few 6N7G. Also another chinese seller whom I bought my Philco 6N7Gs from.


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Experiencing day and night difference with DSD
> 
> Please welcome Geek Pulse SFi DAC by Light Harmonics Audio. Guys, for the next couple of sessions I will try to hear the differences between an Elise and SFi's on board amplifier that does 2000mW into headphones.


 
  
 Hi LR...should be real interesting. Shame the Geek isn't up against a pair of ECC31s, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But must be a killer DAC for the Elise, however...NICE!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Absolutely you need killer tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

New thread on Beyer T1 2nd generation has got my interest. There's actually a Beyer representative answering questions and that is good.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/776332/new-beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-generation
  
 oh my goodness I think I want the T1 v2 already.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am in FDD20 land...
  
 Running an FDD20 beside an ECC31:
  
​  ​ This tube requires an adapter for Elise use, as the FDD20 uses an oddball base.  An adapter is avail on Ebay, but you must modify it, by cutting off pins 7 and 8 on the adapter's octal foot (I used a dremel, took about 3 seconds).  And you have to rig the +/- 12 volt wires into the adapter as well:
  
  
​  ​ You use an external 12v DC power supply to send the needed 12volts DC to the FDD20:
  
​  ​ I bought my 12v DC power supply at a used electronics store, for about $6.00
 It is important that the external power supply, is within the FDD20 specs:  12volts DC and up to 1 amp of current:
  
​ 
 This one supplies 12volts DC and 750mA (milliamps) and so, was AOK for FDD20 use. 
  
 The FDD20 has huge bass.  The ECC31 also is known for a large bass response, these two tubes sound very much alike.  They have similar gain factors, so pair well with one another. 
  
 My FDD20 is NOS and was never used.  It sounds really good now, H1 reports they get better and better, as it passes the 50 hours of burn in, mark.
  
 Now for some listening sessions...
  
 ,


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Experiencing day and night difference with DSD
> 
> Please welcome Geek Pulse SFi DAC by Light Harmonics Audio. Guys, for the next couple of sessions I will try to hear the differences between an Elise and SFi's on board amplifier that does 2000mW into headphones.




Congrats!! 

That is one beautiful DAC, wish I could audition it...!


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Here is the Sylvania 6N7G: It's name is engraved on the base the same as the Arcturus, but it has a date code of 8 D R and the symbols 7 D on each side of the name (no silk printing on the glass of either tube).
> 
> Another guess - the tube was made in April 1948 (1938?) in factory R. 7 D? Oskari - what do you think?


 
  
 Could it be that 7D is when the tube was made and 8D when it was shipped? 1937 & 1938?
  
 Sibley (Tube Lore) says that the code should be letter first, number second, though. According to him, R means replacement, i.e., not OEM.


----------



## MIKELAP

If anybody is looking for 6N7G tube this site has 4 used Mazda 6N7G at $10.00 each                                            http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2641&idcategory=0


----------



## gibosi

mikelap said:


> If anybody is looking for 6N7G tube this site has 4 used Mazda 6N7G at $10.00 each                                            http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2641&idcategory=0


 
  
 Without seeing it I can't be sure, but I suspect that this is the French tube that JV has:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-lampe-6N7G-MINIWATT-DARIO-triode-triode-/141650350770


----------



## UntilThen

No thanks I'm looking for $10 ECC31.

What I really want to know is if a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7gt round black plates would be better sounding than a pair of ECC31.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> What I really want to know is if a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7gt round black plates would be better sounding than a pair of ECC31.


 
  
 I don't know, but I am absolutely in love with my Ken-Rad VT-231's.  The first 6SN7's that I thought approached the sonic capabilities of the shouldered envelope tubes.
  
 The only thing I can criticize them for, is they can sound a bit "congested" in complex passages with a lot of instruments.
  
 They are otherwise, sublime, in my amp, with the DT-990's.
  
 .


----------



## gibosi

Recently, I have been rolling a couple 6A6. You might notice that these look virtually identical to the early 6N7G. And this should not be a surprise as early 6N7Gs are nothing more than a 6A6 bottle installed in a standard octal base rather than a 7-pin base.
  
 The first one is labeled as a Tung-Sol with the same cross-shaped mica spacers as Mordy's Arcturus 6N7G. I am not positive that this tube was manufactured by Tung-Sol, but I haven't seen anything to cause me to doubt it. The only production code on this tube are the numbers "12". Perhaps 1941? And by the way, does anyone know when they stopped putting circles around the tube number and switched to hexagrams?
  

  
 And the second is a Sylvania that again looks identical to Mordy's Sylvania 6N7G.
  

  
 Like Mordy's this one has an engraved base as well. But mine doesn't have anything engraved to the left of "Sylvania", only "8B" to the right.
  

  
 Mordy, these 6A6 have foil getters. Do yours have the same? Or rectangular getters?
  
 I was able to spend a couple hours with the Sylvania last night and found it to be a very musical tube with the same holographic imaging and a wide and deep soundstage that I assume Mordy is hearing with his 6N7G. And given that this tube was actually designed for use as an audio amplifier, unlike 6SN7 and 6DJ8, maybe this shouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## gibosi

Oh, this evening I have been pretty busy checking out a pair of 6AS7.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> No thanks I'm looking for $10 ECC31.
> 
> What I really want to know is if a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7gt round black plates would be better sounding than a pair of ECC31.


 
  
 I have both and I prefer the ECC31. However, different ears with different gear equals different conclusions....


----------



## Suuup

Gibosi, where did you get the adapters for 6A6? It seems it's a lot easier to get ahold of a pair of 6A6 than 6N7G. And they're cheap!


----------



## UntilThen

That's a nice pair of Marconi. I'm starting to like that brand. Didn't know the GEC 6AS7G are also branded Marconi which is Italian?

Suuup pretty soon you'll be rolling all kinds of tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> I have both and I prefer the ECC31. However, different ears with different gear equals different conclusions....


 

 That's good to know. For one I know the TS BRP has been regarded as the best of the 6SN7 and secondly they're even more expensive than the ECC31. Talking about NOS tubes.


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


> I am in FDD20 land...
> 
> Running an FDD20 beside an ECC31:
> 
> ​  ​


 
  
 Looks great JV! I have the tubes & power supply already waiting - but the adapters are still on the way. Did you notice any hum with the power supply? Have you tried two FDD20? Is there enough space to place two FDD20 adapters next to each other? I could wait until I have mine but I'm too impatient


----------



## UntilThen

You got me scratching my head guys. Here I have a most simple setup with common tubes. GE 6AS7GA and Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears. It's sounding so bluesy and coolie with Eric Bibb I'm wondering how it's going to get any better with all the other fancy tubes in my drawers and Elise when it comes, not to mention the above rig of FDD20 which looks like it has some Avengers powers.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's a nice pair of Marconi. I'm starting to like that brand. Didn't know the GEC 6AS7G are also branded Marconi which is Italian?
> 
> Suuup pretty soon you'll be rolling all kinds of tubes.


 
 This is pure madness. How can I obsess over decades old tubes?! I constantly looking for tubes to buy, sending mails left and right. 
  
 Anyway, has someone tried the 6F8G?
  
 Edit: Just found information about them in the old thread. How did they turn out?


----------



## nephilim

If anybody is interested in 7n7 with adapters... I will probably get rid of mine. C3gs, ecc31 and fdd20 are enough for me


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> New thread on Beyer T1 2nd generation has got my interest. There's actually a Beyer representative answering questions and that is good.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/776332/new-beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-generation
> 
> oh my goodness I think I want the T1 v2 already.


 
  
 Hi UT.
 If they're even better than v1, I doubt there are many other cans that would mate so well with Elise + ECC31/FDD20/6N7G - and any other tubes for that matter - especially those that before might have been a tad too bright for the originals...GO FOR THEM, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


jazzvinyl said:


> I am in FDD20 land...
> 
> Running an FDD20 beside an ECC31:
> 
> ...


 
  
 WELL DONE, JV...and welcome to ECC31/FDD20 land. And yes, those new tubes will improve quite dramatically up to 100 hrs!
  
 Re the power supply...yes, a cheap(ish) laptop charger-type does the job a treat...BUT, as you have done, the DC neg out needs to be linked to the mains Earth, or else the hum/buzz is horrendous - as we have found, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Look forward to your future findings as burn-in continues, but am glad you are already impressed with the sound...CHEERS!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mikelap said:


> If anybody is looking for 6N7G tube this site has 4 used Mazda 6N7G at $10.00 each                                            http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2641&idcategory=0


 
  
 They look a very good deal, M...thanks for the link...
  


gibosi said:


> I have both and I prefer the ECC31. However, different ears with different gear equals different conclusions....


 
 Well g, given the 31 is basically identical to the 32/CV181 soundwise - which are now commanding lunatic prices! - I suspect it's very unlikely there will be anything to match them totally. The FDD20 comes close, and does in fact pair brilliantly with a 31, at a fraction of the cost (with the need for some fiddling, alas) - but another bonus of having two drivers in the Elise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Other 6N7Gs certainly look a good option also, and it will be interesting to see how the 6A6 comes along...especially given the range of both these tubes.
  


nephilim said:


> Looks great JV! I have the tubes & power supply already waiting - but the adapters are still on the way. Did you notice any hum with the power supply? Have you tried two FDD20? Is there enough space to place two FDD20 adapters next to each other? I could wait until I have mine but I'm too impatient


 
  
 Hi n...I mentioned above re the probable need for dealing with hum/buzz...but Earthing the DC neg - for me and JV already - brings TOTAL SILENCE...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


nephilim said:


> If anybody is interested in 7n7 with adapters... I will probably get rid of mine.* C3gs, ecc31 and fdd20 are enough for me*


 
  
 Ditto, n....barring a miracle, I am _fairly_(!) sure these will prove unbeatable....????!!!!  All I can say is that I am now getting the best of  the hundreds of tubes I have listened to (in my LDMKIV SE, plus the Elise) all rolled into this one pair - ECC31+FDD20. And they keep taking the Elise to even greater heights as the power tubes are upgraded...what more can you ask for - apart from some _really_ nice cans...like the T1s?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 CHEERS!...


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Looks great JV! I have the tubes & power supply already waiting - but the adapters are still on the way. Did you notice any hum with the power supply? Have you tried two FDD20? Is there enough space to place two FDD20 adapters next to each other? I could wait until I have mine but I'm too impatient


 
  
 Hello nephilim...
  
 Yes, the hum made it seem like there was no possibility of this working well,  I consulted H1, who said to run another wire from the ground on the AC socket, to the negative "in" on the tube and indeed, that completely cured the hum, it's completely silent now (thanks H1..!).
  
 And yes there is room for two FDD20's on the Elise Deck.  I have not tried two, but I'm sure it would sound great.
  
 The Ebay adapters are ugly, but they do work.  Might paint mine, flat black.
  
 Also a simple Ohm meter comes in handy to confirm which pins on the FDD20 connect to the unused pins 7 and 8 on the octal base.  If you don't have one, I can show which pins are the ones for "juice in" on the FDD20.
  
 Have fun, neph!!
  
 .


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > If anybody is looking for 6N7G tube this site has 4 used Mazda 6N7G at $10.00 each                                            http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2641&idcategory=0
> ...


 
 I didnt see them either but took a chance on a couple pairs will post pictures when they get here .Also an update on the 6N7GT greyglass only got a few hours on them and so far the upper range is kinda to much for me they are sibilant  but bass is good .I like the steel version better so far  but they have more hours on them will see if those greyglass settle down a bit as they burn in


----------



## gibosi

suuup said:


>


 
  
 6A6 adapter
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191703907220


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> That's a nice pair of Marconi. I'm starting to like that brand. Didn't know the GEC 6AS7G are also branded Marconi which is Italian?


 
  
 The Marconi-Osram Valve (M-OV) company was a British manufacturer of vacuum tubes and a subsidiary of GEC. And therefore, you will commonly find these tubes labeled as Marconi, Osram or GEC.


----------



## Suuup

gibosi said:


> 6A6 adapter
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191703907220


 
 So those are the only ones? I found them on Ebay too, but they seem quite large, and quite.. white? Doesn't really fit with the aesthetic of the Elise, unfortunately. I'll have to think about those adapters.
  
 In other news, I'm on the lookout for a pair of ECC31.


----------



## Suuup

Anyone of you who bought the ECC31 with the broken spigot for 62 £?


----------



## gibosi

The last of the 6A6 arrived today, a pair of National Union 6A6 with engraved bases and foil getters.


----------



## UntilThen

2 great albums back to back. Eric Bibb - Troubadour Live and Jazz at the Pawnshop. Truly the joy of this hobby is listening to music.
  
 Suuup I got my ECC31 from this place and it should be arriving any minute. Nep too I believe. New at GBP65.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191687114164?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 2 great albums back to back. Eric Bibb - Troubadour Live and Jazz at the Pawnshop. Truly the joy of this hobby is listening to music.
> 
> Suuup I got my ECC31 from this place and it should be arriving any minute. Nep too I believe. New at GBP65.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191687114164?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Yes, great albums make the hobby rewarding.  I like "The Imagine Project" by Herbie Hancock and "A Twist of Motown" by various Jazz Artists, both never fail make you smile.
  
 The ECC31's you link too, UT, look fantastic.,  You will be so pleased with a pair of ECC31's as drivers (and so will you, Suuup).
  
 Hope the next issue of Elise includes a little switch to allow for 12v driver heater juice, if so, a pair of FDD20's could be run at less than the cost of one of the above linked ECC31's...
  
 Cheers...
 .


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> > 6A6 adapter
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/191703907220
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, so far the only ones.  g actually talked the seller in to making them, they were completely uavail at all until a couple of weeks ago.  Appears to use the same "bath tub" base as the FDD20 adapters.  Yes, big ugly and bright white...but a can of flat black spray paint will cure  
  
  
 Also, good to hear about favorable results with the 6A6 (which appears to be the same as 6N7G, but in a pre-octal base).  I knew folks would like the 6N7G 'family' of tubes 
  
 If not ECC31's because of cost, the 6N7G / 6A6 are good alternatives for much less money.
  
 .


----------



## JazzVinyl

FDD20/ECC31 Listening impression:

I had more time to "play" today, than usual. I tried a lot of tube combinations in the Elise to see if the FDD20/ECC31 combo could be beat.

I am back to FDD20/ECC31.

Think the second best overall, was a pair of C3gS - still a really great tube.

6N7G comes in a close third. They sound great too, but the forward presentation does not sound as good as the more mellow FDD20/ECC31 combo, which is full, richly detailed, yet mellow in presentation, that becomes a pleasant enhancement to any tune in any genre. Never congested, magically detailed without sounding analytical. 

Definitely heard things I never knew were in recordings that I am very familiar with. Digital and analog sources, everybody was happy with this pair of tubes to show off their wares. Cavernous bass is not bloated but instead displays ability and capacity, when needed 

Like this combo enough to start thinking of ways to permatize the setup, make it prettier, less Frankenstein looking 

--JV--

.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> Anyone of you who bought the ECC31 with the broken spigot for 62 £?


 
 I had asked the guy for a picture of the underside to see if i could see where was the broken guide but he never sent a picture


----------



## UntilThen

62 pounds for a broken guide? why not get a new one for 65.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Bass Balls..

If you want to see if your system can handle incredible bass....

Purchase the Marcus Miller CD called "M2"

http://www.amazon.com/M2-Marcus-Miller/dp/B00005JH7D/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1444528053&sr=1-2&keywords=marcus+miller

It's a heck of a a bass players' album. He used to play for Miles Davis at one time. 

If it's on Tidal, sample it...


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> Bass Balls..
> 
> If you want to see if your system can handle incredible bass....
> 
> ...


 
 Got several albums from him very good and i think he's on Miles Davis TUTU album sounds like him very nice sounding album in hires by the way                                                             

  
  
  
  Below  Miles Davis TUTU album cover


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Believe it was for a pair with one broken guide pin.....
  
 Re 6N7 and 6N7GT tubes I found very little information about them, but it seems that the one to have is the 6N7G tube. Long live the "Shouldered Tube" AKA ST tube, AKA Coke Bottle tube!
  
 The single review I found comparing these three tubes liked a National 6N7 tube, a Sylvania 6N7G tube and a Tung Sol 6N7GT tube, having tried a several different brands of these tubes.
  
 Hi hypnos 1,
  
 All I can tell you IS "IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER? Perhaps we reached the end game with the Little Dot MKIII/IV, but the Elise came along, and it is markedly better. I don't think that we have reached the end game with the Elise yet - but we are getting there.
  
 For those who don't want to spend the money on a pair of GEC A1834 power tubes, try a pair of 60's GE 6AS7GA tubes. I am waiting for a comparison - the results may be surprising.....Somebody who has both, please weigh in!
  
 Turned on my 6N7G oldies (made in 1937, packed in 1938, which is entirely possible since it was developed in 1936 - thanks Oskari). Sounded blah; what's going on? Well, those oldies seem to need some juice to get going - after 1/2 hour warm-up they sound very good!
  
 The thread is heating up, and we only have some twenty owners.....


----------



## UntilThen

ic a pair for 62 pounds now that's a deal guide or no guide.
  
 Nicely done JV and Mike. Keep those recommendations coming. I'm into jazz, blues, classical, rock and when I'm crazy electronic. Most of all I love vocals esp female vocals.
  
 Mordy you forgot Mike's sign that says 'There is no end'. We certainly are getting heated up here...by all the tubes.
  
 ummm Marcus Miller is very good indeed.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> ic a pair for 62 pounds now that's a deal guide or no guide.
> 
> Nicely done JV and Mike. Keep those recommendations coming. I'm into jazz, blues, classical, rock and when I'm crazy electronic. Most of all I love vocals esp female vocals.
> 
> Mordy you forgot Mike's sign that says 'There is no end'. We certainly are getting heated up here...by all the tubes.


 
 One of my favorites is JOSS STONE also ANNIE LENNOX


----------



## mastapoo

could anyone here with the ELISE who owns beyerdynamic T1's speak about their experience with the pairing? thanks!


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Continuing enjoying the 6N7G tubes. After some 30 hours the treble has picked up in sizzle, but the bass, even though very musical and with good detail, does not have real slam and impact - not that it bothers me because of the great holographic sound stage and sweet sound.
  
 However, the tubes are microphonic. At listening levels too high to use, there is even acoustic feedback, and at moderate levels the shelf and stand are sensitive to tapping (but this does not come through in the music unless you deliberately tap the tubes or the amp or shelf.)
  
 Another problem is a fairly loud hum that I can only hear through my headphones, but not through the speakers. This hum is present through the headphones even with the volume at zero, (and maybe at way too loud listening levels through the speakers). Playing music through the headphones hides the hum, but it is there.
  
 Any suggestions on how to get rid of the hum?
  
 Gibosi,
  
 Thanks for the link to the Mazda tubes - ordered a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

I've found with my NOS 7N7 that just playing music through it will get rid of the hum. It took about 5 solid hours of straight burn in. I've to do that with the pair, singly of course on my DV. Once it's gone it stays off and I love the 7N7 now.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> FDD20/ECC31 Listening impression:
> 
> I had more time to "play" today, than usual. I tried a lot of tube combinations in the Elise to see if the FDD20/ECC31 combo could be beat.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV...reckon this combo is gonna be VERY hard to beat, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (And despite fear of constant repetition, you're in for even MORE joyous surprises in the hours to come...). Hope you manage to pretty things up a bit.
  
 With any luck, perhaps intrepid rollers might just turn up a 6N7G to match the FDD20, or at least come a bit nearer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...we live in hope, lol!
  
  
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Believe it was for a pair with one broken guide pin.....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi m.
  
 Yes indeed..."Coke" definitely seems the only way to go, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And aaahhh....you haven't heard the ECC31s or 31/FDD20 combo yet - I think JV will confirm it's gonna take a real miracle to surpass what these beauties deliver! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it truly is unbelievable. But I wish you all the very best in the search, mon ami!! (Me?....I have now reached overload! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but am _more_ than happy..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Sounds like you may have been a bit unlucky with your 6N7Gs...the bane of a good few 'oldies' it seems (and not just oldies!!). But keep trying...you may well find the Holy Grail, lol!
  
 ps. Wonder if my PMs have been getting through OK?...
  
 Cheers!
  
 pps. Indeed...good to see the new thread coming along nicely...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Continuing enjoying the 6N7G tubes. After some 30 hours the treble has picked up in sizzle, but the bass, even though very musical and with good detail, does not have real slam and impact - not that it bothers me because of the great holographic sound stage and sweet sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

mastapoo said:


> could anyone here with the ELISE who owns beyerdynamic T1's speak about their experience with the pairing? thanks!


 
  
 Welcome to the thread mastapoo.
  
 I upgraded from the HD650s to the T1s and the difference was night and day! The Elise was almost made just for the Beyers...but she manages to drive a whole range of HPs. The Feliks-Audio guys went out of their way for it to also handle low-z cans better than most OTL amps do.
  
 Even with stock tubes, the T1s perform brilliantly...afraid I don't have the time just now for more detailed info, but will update later.
  
 Cheers,
 CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Continuing enjoying the 6N7G tubes. After some 30 hours the treble has picked up in sizzle, but the bass, even though very musical and with good detail, does not have real slam and impact - not that it bothers me because of the great holographic sound stage and sweet sound.
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy...

None of my four 6N7G's hum at all. 
The earlier 1940's pair has noticably less bass than the mid 70's "GM" rebrands.

Try this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-6N7-G-COKE-BOTTLE-TUBE-W-BLACK-PLATES-TESTED-/351545934490

Both the ECC31 and FDD20 are microphonic big time but un-noticed via headphone listening without tapping the glass.

If you want great bass:
FDD20/ECC31 combo is the way to go, for Elise, in my opinion. You won't regret it. 

.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Part of the allure of tubes for me is to dredge up the bargains. It would be easy to just order a pair of ECC32 tubes with another pair of GEC A1834, but I just can't get myself to spend the big bucks (around $1000.00 if you just click on the buy it now button.) So far I did not pay more than $18 for a tube, including shipping. This way of acquisition is very challenging and requires patience.
  
 I do have a bunch of top notch tubes, but some only as singles so far, in order to meet my self imposed price limits. It also seems to me that people are overlooking very inexpensive tubes as being, well, too inexpensive.
  
 It must be a fact that a $200 tube is so much better than a $10 tube, right?
  
 So the question is: If I have a pair of $20 6N7G drivers and a pair of GE 6AS7GA power tubes for $15, do I get 70%, 80% or 90% of the sound of the best and most expensive that's out there?
  
 I don't have the answer since I have not been able to compare. One thing is for sure, even with a less optimal set up, the tremendous musical enjoyment is there with the Elise.
  
 I am not giving up - I'll either find a bargain or cave in just to have the best LOL. In the meanwhile I am enjoying myself...
  
 Listening to my oldies 6N7G tubes paired with the Chatham 6AS7G at the moment. The Chathams add a little more punch to the bass and a more analytical and less warm sound than the GE 6AS7GA tubes. Sounds great, but something bothers me, don't know what. maybe a certain hardness to the sound.
  
 Do you like strawberry shortcake or pizza with a spicy topping? It really isn't a good analogy - the only food somebody could eat every day of his life without getting tired of it is.... bread.
  
 How did I get into this philosophical discussion?
  
 Thanks for the link to the Delco 6N7G tube - unfortunately he only has a single tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Part of the allure of tubes for me is to dredge up the bargains. It would be easy to just order a pair of ECC32 tubes with another pair of GEC A1834, but I just can't get myself to spend the big bucks (around $1000.00 if you just click on the buy it now button.) So far I did not pay more than $18 for a tube, including shipping. This way of acquisition is very challenging and requires patience.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hello Mordy!
  
 $1000.00 'eh!  Wow, now that would be a _giant_ tube budget 
  
 I think your doing a great job!  Keep at it!!
  
 Think the most I have spent on a tube this far, was $70.00 for the one ECC31, including shipping.  He only had one for that price.  Once you buy the FDD20 adapter for $25.00, an NOS FDD20 from Germany runs about $32.00 per tube - not too bad.
  
 Still looking for 5694's I hope, too  
  
 Here is off topic item...took the dogs for a hike on a trail near my house, this am...and made this photo...   
  
​  
 See ya!
  
  
 --JV--


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Great photo! Here is a picture I took:
  




  
 It was taken from a mountain overlooking another mountain and shows the fall foliage of the trees with the sun shining on one spot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Great photo! Here is a picture I took:
> 
> It was taken from a mountain overlooking another mountain and shows the fall foliage of the trees with the sun shining on one spot.


 
  
 A carpet of color!!
  
 I love it!
  
 .


----------



## mordy

The topic was motorcycles some time back. Special points if you can identify this bike and the year it was made (hint: same year I was born).
  





 On display in the Reynold's Auto Museum, AB, Canada


----------



## nephilim

A general question: are the two drivers and the power tubes associated with the l/r channels or do both channels pass both tubes of each pair? I am asking because I feel puzzled that JV and H1 use different driver tubes. At the moment I have the metal ECC31 - 6SN7 adapters and when I touch the surface of the left adapter I hear a buzz in the left can and the other way round with the right adapter. Being a novice I would conclude that the driver tubes feed different channels, hence I would not mix tubes.
  
 What do you think?


----------



## UntilThen

H1 you're right this thread has everything. Isn't that interesting. Now someone will kill me for introducing the complete package.
  
 I'm impressed with those 2 photos. I should be out taking pictures now that it's Spring.
  
 That looks like a WW2 bike 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My philosophy on tubes is this. I want to try as many as I possibly can. Sure I could have bought a TOTL headphone with what I spend but I am happier this way. The headphone upgrade will come but there's no hurry I'm loving the HD650 too much right now. Also I don't believe in getting rid of my cheaper tubes. Tube rolling is a self discovery for myself. You can read all the reviews or others opinions but one should sample it for oneself if possible. Everyone's taste is different. Will a 10x more expensive tube sound 10x better than a cheaper tube? I think the answer there is the same with other gear in the audio chain for example HP, DAC, AMP. There will always be a diminishing return as you go up the chain. It is really up to the individuals to decide for themselves.
  
 Respectfully
  
 UT  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nep good question. I think it's one for the designers of the amp to tell us.
  
 P/S Another reason for me investing in tubes particularly 6AS7 and 6SN7 is because I don't think I'll stop at Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Part of the allure of tubes for me is to dredge up the bargains. It would be easy to just order a pair of ECC32 tubes with another pair of GEC A1834, but I just can't get myself to spend the big bucks (around $1000.00 if you just click on the buy it now button.) So far I did not pay more than $18 for a tube, including shipping. This way of acquisition is very challenging and requires patience.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again m...as always, you give us some really brain-crunching, mind-numbing questions to address in this tube world of ours, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...there are so many variables in music reproduction and enjoyment, full stop!!
  
 But first, I believe we are now getting $1000 sound from tubes a fraction of the cost!
  
 Secondly, with so many people having already scoured different tube families and reported on them, I wonder which "inexpensive" tubes are going to match those that have proved their qualities over time and application in different makes of amp - unless having the extremely good luck I had with the FDD20, for example. I suspect the search could indeed be a VERY long one indeed...and _life is short_, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (especially as we cannot take for granted that life shall indeed be kind to us time-wise...).
  
 Thirdly, I'm afraid I think it's impossible to put any kind of percentage figure on sound perception, as everyone's starting point is going to be totally personal and unique - ie one person may rate their current set-up sound at "50%" but another "90%", for example. Certainly, we so often end up paying a great deal for only small gains...then we have to make difficult choices (unless a millionaire!). In your own example, I can only comment on whether I personally feel the improvement over generally regarded as 'good' tubes to be _worthwhile..._and the overwhelming answer has to be YES, YES!
  
 And so, mon ami, all I can say is I truly hope you do indeed discover an unknown wonder...preferably for peanuts, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but please don't deny yourself for _too_ long the joy you deserve from our latest findings...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As you say, though, great sound comes out of the Elise with _any_ of the appropriate tubes...and then we move on to say hello to gibosi's "rabbit hole" - and are _lost_!!
  
 CHEERS,m ....from somewhere near the bottom of that hole...


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> A general question: are the two drivers and the power tubes associated with the l/r channels or do both channels pass both tubes of each pair? I am asking because I feel puzzled that JV and H1 use different driver tubes. At the moment I have the metal ECC31 - 6SN7 adapters and when I touch the surface of the left adapter I hear a buzz in the left can and the other way round with the right adapter. Being a novice I would conclude that the driver tubes feed different channels, hence I would not mix tubes.
> 
> What do you think?


 
 One of my old power tubes hummed, and when I switched their position, the hum went from the right channel to the left, so I believe you are right, atleast for power tubes.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> The topic was motorcycles some time back. Special points if you can identify this bike and the year it was made (hint: same year I was born).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 1947 Knucklehead


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> A general question: are the two drivers and the power tubes associated with the l/r channels or do both channels pass both tubes of each pair? I am asking because I feel puzzled that JV and H1 use different driver tubes. At the moment I have the metal ECC31 - 6SN7 adapters and when I touch the surface of the left adapter I hear a buzz in the left can and the other way round with the right adapter. Being a novice I would conclude that the driver tubes feed different channels, hence I would not mix tubes.
> 
> What do you think?


 
  
 Hello Nephilim...
  
 I agree that the L/R channels of the Elise are independent,  I had said the FDD20 and ECC31 are both quite microphonic.  With no input, if I rap of the side of the tubes with a popsicle stick, I hear the noise in the side that the tube is on.
  
 I know mixing of the drivers seems like it would not be a good idea, but in the case of the FDD20/ECC31, they sound incredibly alike.
 An instrument that is panned Left to Right does not change timbre or volume across the two tubes.  The more the FDD20 burns in, the more it sounds just like the ECC31.
  
 I have tried mixing other combinations with less success,  The two tubes must have the same gain (amplification) factors, else one side is louder than the other and that does not work well.  In the case of these two tubes, the gain is the same or so close that you do not perceive any volume difference, Left To Right.
  
 I do have another FDD20 and adapter on order, so in a few weeks I can report if two FDD20's sound better than one each FDD20/ECC31.
  
 You said you have FDD20's coming and you have the power supply.  If you have (2) FDD20's coming you might know before me 
  
 If you also have an ECC31, I recommend that you try this combination as well.  You will see (hear) they pair very well, together.
  
 Cheers!!
  
  
 --JV--
  
 .


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi guys, 

I need to buy ECC31 but not sure if they'll work wonders with my stock power tubes, can anyone be kind enough to comment on this? What reasonably priced tubes can power ECC31 to their appetite? 

Also, are these the ECC31 everyone is talking about? Mullard ECC31? Link http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181899540902&alt=web 

Honestly speaking, my DAC out performs Elise, I can feel it. I just put new cables to make sure everything is at par in this Elise Geek combo. I also shifted to media playback via Android device using OTG cable. The DAC amplifier blows my mind, when I switch to Elise I feel it is blocking the SQ. I'm still trying to figure out what it is. This experience got me into thinking for tube rolling. Otherwise I might just go with the DAC. 

Thank you! 
LR


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need to buy ECC31 but not sure if they'll work wonders with my stock power tubes, can anyone be kind enough to comment on this? What reasonably priced tubes can power ECC31 to their appetite?
> 
> ...


 
 These seem to test better for about same price test is  at bottom of page  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-NOS-MULLARD-NR73-CV1285-ECC31-6N7G-/301741856291?hash=item4641375623                                                                                                                                                                                                                     By the way i paid $100.00 U.S. and $130.00 U.S.for my 2 pairs  take your time and maybe youll get lucky.


----------



## K4RL

Here’s my back-to-back comparison of the Elise and the Crack + Speedball. You’ll find that my initial impressions still hold true; The Elise has details and the Crack has dat bass.
  
 Materials:
 FLAC --> MusicBee + WASAPI --> Schiit Bifrost Uber via gen2 USB --> {AMP} --> Beyerdynamic DT880, 600 Ohm
  
 I used the same winged "C" power tubes in both amps. For drivers, I used the original stock tubes in the Elise (not the TS reissues), then a gold-pin JJ ECC802 S in the Crack. I used standard power and interconnect cables; absolutely nothing special.
  
 Methods:
 Listened to 8 songs I'm very familiar with, taking brief notes while listening. I played all 8 from the Elise first, then did the same with the Crack.
 The xx - Angels
 The xx - Try
 Vampire Weekend - Obvious Bicycle
 Pink Floyd - The Post War Dream
 Nine Inch Nails - March of the Pigs
 Nine Inch Nails - Closer
 Rage Against The Machine - I'm Housin'
 Portishead - Glory Box
  
 Results:
 This is what I wrote for each amp
 Elise: Space, Separation, Detail, Clean
 Crack: Narrow/Forward, Bass + Bass control, Messy
  
 Discussion:
 I said before that the Crack is analogous to looking at a picture, while the Elise is like a diorama of that picture. The first thing I noticed about the Crack tonight was how narrow it sounded compared to Elise. It truly sounds like a dimension has been removed from the soundstage, making things seem overly focused. The things in focus dominate the stage, and something has to move out of the way for a new sound to come in. This became a problem for Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against The Machine, where the music is quite busy. The Elise can separate each synth loop in March of the Pigs, but it sounds like a total mess with the Crack.
  I also said before that the Crack had distinctly bigger lows and mids. That, too, was on the front of my mind tonight, and that might be where the Crack beats the Elise. The Crack has such deep, wide bass it totally defies the aforementioned narrowness of the soundstage. It sounds like the bass is the canvas upon which the rest of the music is painted, and it sounds awesome with those tracks from The xx. Sometimes, however, the crack sounded like it was overly focused on low-mids. I think this preference coupled with the narrowness of the sound made it sound off-balance at times. In other words, the Elise would present sounds and instruments relatively evenly, while the Crack gave you 1) low-mids and 2) whatever else was “in focus” at the time. It never sounded out of control, but occasionally felt out of place.
 Ultimately I think I prefer the Elise, strictly in terms of sound. Although the bass generally sounds better with the Crack, the detail of the Elise is in another league.
  
 Further Research:
 I’d like to do this again with the Sennheiser HD650s and with better tubes. I have some C3gs that need to be burned in, and I’d love to find some 5998 power tubes. Now that I have two amps to benefit from the purchase, I might be able to justify investing big bucks in them.
  
 Other Considerations:
 Obviously the Crack is a DIY kit. As other reviewers have said, the kit and instructions are great and it’s quite easy to build. Personally, I had no trouble building it, but I had some bad parts that took several months to iron out. I sent it to bottlehead HQ 3 times before it was in perfect order. Repairs and shipping aren’t cheap, so I’m probably into the Crack for as much as, or more than, the Elise. I’ll give bottlehead credit for customer service, but I wish I bought something like the Elise from the beginning. It’s a nice amp, but in my experience, not reliable enough to be your _only_ amp. YMMV – a lot of other people love the Crack.
  
 Hope this was informative, 
 Karl


----------



## UntilThen

Good honest review in your own words. I like it. Again thanks for listing the tracks you're using and the associated gear. Give others a better perspective of the listening session.


----------



## mordy

Hi K4RL,
  
 Appreciate your thorough in depth and honest review - thanks.


----------



## Contrails

Ladies and gents, I know this is an Elise thread but what does everyone think of the Feliks Audio Ariso for speakers? Can't find any reviews on them but judging by the praise of the Elise, I am sure this is a descent amp too.  Just wondering what sort of speakers would I be able to power with the Ariso?
  
 Thanks


----------



## hpamdr

It depends on your budget/location and how loud you want to go !
 You have to take into account that the Arioso is a 4W per chanel amp so you need to have high efficiency speaker. Really high efficiency is above 100db for 1W at 1m
 If you live un U.S.A. you can get a look to Klipsch Horn/La Scala/Cornwall, you can probably find in second market and/or listen with similar tube amp.
 For less, you can also give a look to http://www.decware.com/newsite/ZOB.html.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Nephilim...
> 
> I agree that the L/R channels of the Elise are independent,  I had said the FDD20 and ECC31 are both quite microphonic.  With no input, if I rap of the side of the tubes with a popsicle stick, I hear the noise in the side that the tube is on.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV.
  
 Although not a very long trial, I must admit I found 2x FDD20s didn't have quite the same amazing sub-bass as either 2x 31s or the 31/FDD20 combo...but perhaps much longer burn-in might bring things a bit closer...look forward to your and neph's findings...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lord raven said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need to buy ECC31 but not sure if they'll work wonders with my stock power tubes, can anyone be kind enough to comment on this? What reasonably priced tubes can power ECC31 to their appetite?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi LR. The best supply of NOS 31s at the moment seems to be UK ebayer  :  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECC31-MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-BRITISH-MADE-/191687114164?hash=item2ca1713db4
  
 Good used ones do occasionally turn up, but these tubes are so good it is well worth splashing out on new ones, IMHO - you wouldn't regret it. Certainly don't pay more for used tubes would be my advice, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





k4rl said:


> Here’s my back-to-back comparison of the Elise and the Crack + Speedball. You’ll find that my initial impressions still hold true; The Elise has details and the Crack has dat bass.
> 
> Materials:
> FLAC --> MusicBee + WASAPI --> Schiit Bifrost Uber via gen2 USB --> {AMP} --> Beyerdynamic DT880, 600 Ohm
> ...


 
  
 More than informative, K...very good indeed! Thanks....
  
 And you have also highlighted the downside of DIY kits...those are the very points that dissuaded me from going for either a Crack or a lovely Elekit...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for that bass....easily remedied - 2x ECC31s, lol!!!
  
 As more results come in from people, I'm sure a better idea of reasonably priced power tubes to do them justice will emerge...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV.
> 
> Although not a very long trial, I must admit I found 2x FDD20s didn't have quite the same amazing sub-bass as either 2x 31s or the 31/FDD20 combo...but perhaps much longer burn-in might bring things a bit closer...look forward to your and neph's findings...



Hello H1...

No problem, I like this combo so much that I wanted a backup anyway, since the FDD20 is a "way back" tube, and existing stock will surely dwindle.

If the FDD20 had been a 6v tube in the octal base, it would have been well known as a fine performer, long ago 

Cheers!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

k4rl said:


> Other Considerations:
> Obviously the Crack is a DIY kit. As other reviewers have said, the kit and instructions are great and it’s quite easy to build. Personally, I had no trouble building it, but I had some bad parts that took several months to iron out. I sent it to bottlehead HQ 3 times before it was in perfect order. Repairs and shipping aren’t cheap, so I’m probably into the Crack for as much as, or more than, the Elise. I’ll give bottlehead credit for customer service, but I wish I bought something like the Elise from the beginning. It’s a nice amp, but in my experience, not reliable enough to be your _only_ amp. YMMV – a lot of other people love the Crack.
> 
> Hope this was informative,
> Karl




Well done Karl!

Thank you for the detailed report and the time taken to report your findings.

Very helpful..!


----------



## mordy

Just an answer to the question of the picture of the old Harley - as usual, the members on this thread seem knowledgeable about everything!
  
 Haven't driven a motorcycle in 50 years, and I didn't know what "knucklehead" means in terms of bikes, but now I know, and of course, Mikelap is right!
  
 "The *knucklehead* is a retronym used by enthusiasts to refer to a Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, so named because of the distinct shape of the rocker boxes.[1] The engine is a two cylinder, 45 degree, pushrod actuated overhead valve V-twin engine with two valves per cylinder. It was the third basic type of V-Twin engine used by Harley-Davidson, replacing the Flathead-engined VL model in 1936 as HD's top-of-the-line model. The engine was manufactured until 1947 and was replaced by the Panhead engine in 1948. The Knucklehead-engined models were originally referred to as "OHVs" by enthusiasts of the time and in Harley's official literature; the nickname arose from the California chopper culture of the late 1960s.
 As the design of Harley-Davidson engines has evolved through the years, the distinctive shape of the valve covers has allowed Harley enthusiasts to classify an engine simply by looking at the shape of the cover. The knucklehead engine valve covers have contours resembling knuckles on a person's fist that give the knucklehead its name."


----------



## UntilThen

Very informative Mordy. Bikies will be signing up here soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I happened to come across a pair of Tung Sol rebranded IBM 7236 last night. Drove 27kms just to get it. Being local it's cheaper and no postage fee. 
  
*Some more thoughts on the 5998.* 
 Bass is solid and extends deep but in a very refined way. This is not Basshead bass. It's the most refined bass. Treble is smooth and extended and mid range is excellent. Every single note seems uplifted. That's why some thinks it's bright. It's not. It's clear, detailed and yet relaxing to listen to. There's a hint of warm and lushness for sure. All these attributes are very clearly heard. Every Peter Paul and Mary can hear it. Doesn't need golden ears to detect it. On first listen you'll smile involuntarily. 
  
 I'm now doing a real extended A/B compare of the 7236 and 5998. Intend to spend a few days to get a real good impressions. 7236 is different...in a good way. I'm really enjoying both atm.


----------



## UntilThen

I must be living under a rock. I just discovered JRiver Media Center. This player is nice ! Pulls in all your music files in whatever bitrates and format it's held. So I have ALAC, FLAC all stored in there. Works on Mac and Windows and on first listen sounds a lot better from other players I've tried. Your thoughts please if you have any to share.
  
 On another note, I like to hear from the experts on tube rolling. On my DV, I use one power and one driver tube. I'd switch power tubes occasionally to compare. I read somewhere that it could be dangerous to put in a cold power tube and a warm driver. It could cause arcing ???


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi H1,
  
 My second part of the question was what power tubes should pair well with ECC31? I am willing to buy the best tubes but will it still require the power tubes upgrade? I seem unable to buy the most expensive power tubes atm, might need an equally better alternative that is at least available on the market. 
  
 The suggest seller, I tried to contact him but unable to send PM, he suggests PM for international buyers first. I will try again.
  
 Thanks!
 LR
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Hi LR. The best supply of NOS 31s at the moment seems to be UK ebayer  :  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECC31-MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-BRITISH-MADE-/191687114164?hash=item2ca1713db4
> 
> Good used ones do occasionally turn up, but these tubes are so good it is well worth splashing out on new ones, IMHO - you wouldn't regret it. Certainly don't pay more for used tubes would be my advice, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

That's the link I bought my ECC31 from - the link from H1. They still have 7 available. Last I look was 9.
  
 Power tubes if money is no object then the GEC 6AS7G but I don't see them anywhere at the moment. Failing that my choice would be a pair of 5998. Other choices would be a pair of Mullard 6080 or even a pair of Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 The seller will take a few days to respond. He said so about being able to post on Tues and Wed only.
  
 These tube are big investments. If you feel the Geek outperforms Elise I doubt tubes will be the magical cure. Not everyone will prefer tube amps over ss. It's a personal preference.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 This guy here wants to use the 12V version of the Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:


----------



## UntilThen

He will win awards in the car audio scene for sure.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> This guy here wants to use the 12V version of the Elise
> 
> ...


 
 His car will fall apart


----------



## UntilThen

Where were you when Mike Jagger and the Rolling Stones sang Angie in 1973? It's an acoustic guitar song that tells of the end of a romance. Whether the song is about a real girl or Richards who wrote most of the song was referring to his quitting heroin. Whatever it is enjoy:-


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Where were you when Mike Jagger and the Rolling Stones sang Angie in 1973? It's an acoustic guitar song that tells of the end of a romance. Whether the song is about a real girl or Richards who wrote most of the song was referring to his quitting heroin. Whatever it is enjoy:-




According to the WiKi page for this song:

"An unusual feature of the original recording is that singer Mick Jagger's vocal guide track (made before the final vocals were performed) is faintly audible throughout the song (an effect sometimes called a "ghost vocal")."

I have the CD and LP, so going to check this "ghost vocal" out.

Speaking of audible oddities...on the *Michael Jackson's Thriller* LP (and CD releases) check out the 'out of tune' Glockenspiel that is on one side of the recording of "*Human Nature*". 
It's audible the whole way through the song. 

In quality headphones set ups (like ours) it's very ear to hear this and follow. There has been a lot of speculation over the years as to exactly what it is (is it really a Glockenspiel?) etc.

When I first heard it, many years ago, I thought "Hmmmm, Micheal must have owed an amateur musician a chance to play on an album of his". 

It sounds out of tune to the melody in several places. It's very very odd indeed, with many saying that if Quincy Jones was in charge of this recording (which he was) then, it's no mistake and it was certainly meant to be in there.

See what you think....

--JV--

.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Where were you when Mike Jagger and the Rolling Stones sang Angie in 1973? It's an acoustic guitar song that tells of the end of a romance. Whether the song is about a real girl or Richards who wrote most of the song was referring to his quitting heroin. Whatever it is enjoy:-




 i bought that album back then I think the name of it was GOATS HEAD SOUP


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> i bought that album back then I think the name of it was GOATS HEAD SOUP




I can hear the ghost vocal track in "Angie".

Dang it...now that I have heard it, I will NEVER be able to unhear it!

Just like the sloppy Glockenspiel in Human Nature!

.


----------



## UntilThen

You can hear it anytime you like but you can never unhear it, so says Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> You can hear it anytime you like but you can never unhear it, so says Elise. :rolleyes:




A very compelling Stones song is: "Moonlight Mile" off the Sticky Fingers album.


----------



## JazzVinyl

For a real sonic treat...

Check out "Lucille Has Messed My Mind Up" - on Frank Zappa's "Joe's Garage" album.


----------



## UntilThen

So many Tung Sol 5998 on eBay suddenly.


----------



## UntilThen

As I sat listening and contemplating how I'll miss the warm, lushness and bass impact my Darkvoice 336se has given me, I'm preparing myself mentally for what Elise will bring to me. I've been picking key words from everyone's review and I get a general consensus that Elise is more an elite pugilist adapt in the art of nailing an entire symphony than Hulk the super brawler who will send earthquake undertones through your entire body.
  
 I'm not sure which I will like more.


----------



## nephilim

I haven't heard the DV but recently I felt I had to travel back in time when I used to be a metal-head and listened to Fear Factory's Genexus album on the Elise w/ECC31 & 5998 via the HD800. While the cans are by sure not bass heavy I was amazed how well the low spectrum is covered. Imho with that combination there is noting to be missed.
  
 I just bought a spare pair of 5998... just in case


----------



## UntilThen

Lol Nep don't buy the entire 5998 stock. Well it's good to know your HD800 with those tubes can metal-head it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Guess what? Lukasz replied. Said will update me later this week regarding shipping date.
  
 Ummm he may not be able to get me an Australian power cable. Can I use a PC power cable (lol el cheapo) or do I need a specialised audio power cable.
  
 Something like this?


----------



## nephilim

According to my limited experience the power cord is further down on the list of recommended upgrades.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I do need one power cable or else I won't be able to start up Elise.
  
 I think this is as much as I want to pay for AUD$45


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Well I do need one power cable or else I won't be able to start up Elise.




Congrats on the word that it will ship soon


----------



## MIKELAP

nephilim said:


> I haven't heard the DV but recently I felt I had to travel back in time when I used to be a metal-head and listened to Fear Factory's Genexus album on the Elise w/ECC31 & 5998 via the HD800. While the cans are by sure not bass heavy I was amazed how well the low spectrum is covered. Imho with that combination there is noting to be missed.
> 
> I just bought a spare pair of 5998... just in case


 
 Couldnt agree more just listen to the first few seconds of the song Reflektor by Arcade Fire  incredible low end


----------



## JazzVinyl

For those interested in running 12v drivers in the Elise:

Here is a device to step up 6v dc to 12v dc (could go inside Elise, and a fuse, diode and bypass switch):

http://www.prodctodc.com/5w-adjustable-boost-converter-dc-36v-to-532v-power-converterpower-adapterdriver-module-dual-output-power-supply-p-69.html

.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Lol Nep don't buy the entire 5998 stock. Well it's good to know your HD800 with those tubes can metal-head it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's what i use and i have a DH LAB AC cable that I received  as part of a Burson Conductor package no difference to me


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well I do need one power cable or else I won't be able to start up Elise.
> 
> I think this is as much as I want to pay for AUD$45


 
  
 Hi UT...probably all depends on what sort of EMI/RFI  you have flying about - and thus whether you're lucky, or _cursed_, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I do hope it's the former...).


----------



## MIKELAP

Am i imagining this or do you guys from across the pond seem to have more problems with EMI/RFI   than in North America ?


----------



## hypnos1

Well guys, it would appear it's time I tried to give a clearer, more 'objective' overview of my and JV's experience with the rather unconventional mix of driver tubes - viz ECC31/FDD20 - for those who may be interested in going off mainstream.
  
 It is, of course, self-evident that in the main, mixing of non-identical tubes is fraught with possible problems and probably not even worth bothering with. However, an important lesson I learned from my time over at the Little Dot thread (and with the Elise!) was that _sometimes_ it can pay dividends to experiment, even in the face of _friendly_ scepticism - the sort I had hoped would migrate over to things Elise.
 Despite approaching such a project with a healthy doubt, the *lengthy burn-in necessary* for our NOS tubes has shown a very clear similarity between them...much more so even than often between other tubes of the same type. And has been tested over a wide range of genres - no overnight quickies here, lol!
 At first it appears they may not merge properly, but gradually any disparities do indeed fade and a synergy develops that is actually most unexpected...and I use the word advisedly here - "expectation" has been removed from the equation as much as possible, as has wishful thinking.
  
 And so we have both come to this conclusion through careful, prolonged scrutiny...neither of us has only just started out in this area. And most importantly...through _actual_ personal trial and assessment, not _supposition_. This, of course, can be the only way to gain any kind of meaningful impression as to what is being delivered by the tubes...and everything else! 
  
 Which does actually bring me to the rather tricky subject of _hearing_. I suspect there are in fact very few (lucky) people with precisely the same range of frequency response in both ears, let alone _volume_ levels. This will, naturally, impact upon the balance of sound we experience - our entire _perception_ in fact. And must therefore differ from one person to the next...for better or worse! Which is just one reason why music appreciation especially is such a personal experience, of course.
  
 And then there's the question of just how well balanced the drivers and powers are in toto!
  
 In other words, there are a good many things that will influence anyone's experience in such an undertaking...and requires an open, unprejudiced mind; a willingness to try things new and/or unconventional...plus the patience not to judge by initial impressions, but give a fair trial. Only from such personal involvement and experience can a truly valid opinion be given.
  
 And so, folks, I look forward to the honest findings of others prepared to fly in the face of convention, and take risks in the pursuit of "that extra mile"...which is also part of the fun to be had in this (mad?!) hobby of ours. Not everything suits everyone, but if at least _a few_ discover something unexpected that they can enjoy/appreciate, then the quest must surely be worthwhile?...
  
 So HAPPY LISTENING! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Neither I nor JV will be in the slightest upset if your findings don't exactly match our own..._given fair trial, lol!!_


----------



## MIKELAP

hypnos1 said:


> Well guys, it would appear it's time I tried to give a clearer, more 'objective' overview of my and JV's experience with the rather unconventional mix of driver tubes - viz ECC31/FDD20 - for those who may be interested in going off mainstream.
> 
> It is, of course, self-evident that in the main, mixing of non-identical tubes is fraught with possible problems and probably not even worth bothering with. However, an important lesson I learned from my time over at the Little Dot thread (and with the Elise!) was that _sometimes_ it can pay dividends to experiment, even in the face of _friendly_ scepticism - the sort I had hoped would migrate over to things Elise.
> Despite approaching such a project with a healthy doubt, the *lengthy burn-in necessary* for our NOS tubes has shown a very clear similarity between them...much more so even than often between other tubes of the same type. And has been tested over a wide range of genres - no overnight quickies here, lol!
> ...


 
 Like gibosi says ears and gear i posted in another  thread regarding some owners having a hard time with Senns HD800 upper end, i said that the Senns upper end wasnt a problem for me and that i had decades in a noisy Machine Shop and loud music in between to thank for that so no anax mod for me lol. So that's why we have to experiment for ourselves one solution doesnt necessarely fit everybody  Happy Listening indeed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> And so, folks, I look forward to the honest findings of others prepared to fly in the face of convention, and take risks in the pursuit of "that extra mile"...which is also part of the fun to be had in this (mad?!) hobby of ours. Not everything suits everyone, but if at least _a few_ discover something unexpected that they can enjoy/appreciate, then the quest must surely be worthwhile?...
> 
> So HAPPY LISTENING!
> 
> ps. Neither I nor JV will be in the slightest upset if your findings don't exactly match our own..._given fair trial, lol!!_




Well said H1,

Also don't underestimate psycho acoustic affects. If you read this article in full, in gives insight as to why this particular tube combo, pleases:

http://getthatprosound.com/hacking-your-listeners-ears-9-psychoacoustic-sound-design-tricks-to-improve-your-music/

.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...probably all depends on what sort of EMI/RFI  you have flying about - and thus whether you're lucky, or _cursed_, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't have EMI/RFI problems here. Best country in the world remember? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Reason for getting a power cable is because Lukasz may not be able to source me a quality one for the type used down under. I have a lot of spare unused PC power cables so will give that a go first. I just realise my DV is using a generic black cable with no untoward effects.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I don't have EMI/RFI problems here. Best country in the world remember? :wink_face:
> 
> Reason for getting a power cable is because Lukasz may not be able to source me a quality one for the type used down under. I have a lot of spare unused PC power cables so will give that a go first. I just realise my DV is using a generic black cable with no untoward effects.




Think you'll be fine. The one supplied with the Elise was in no way 'fancy' and no problems, here.

.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well guys, it would appear it's time I tried to give a clearer, more 'objective' overview of my and JV's experience with the rather unconventional mix of driver tubes - viz ECC31/FDD20 - for those who may be interested in going off mainstream.
> 
> It is, of course, self-evident that in the main, mixing of non-identical tubes is fraught with possible problems and probably not even worth bothering with. However, an important lesson I learned from my time over at the Little Dot thread (and with the Elise!) was that _sometimes_ it can pay dividends to experiment, even in the face of _friendly_ scepticism - the sort I had hoped would migrate over to things Elise.
> Despite approaching such a project with a healthy doubt, the *lengthy burn-in necessary* for our NOS tubes has shown a very clear similarity between them...much more so even than often between other tubes of the same type. And has been tested over a wide range of genres - no overnight quickies here, lol!
> ...


 

 Hi H1, let me first of all congratulate and applaud you for having the spirit of discovery and experimentation. The world wouldn't have been the same if Christopher Columbus didn't set out in his voyage of discovery. The maturity of a thread is how well we support and share ideas in our pursuit of better sound with lower cost without prejudice.
  
 I have too many tubes right now to burn in, assess and listen to. I intend to do that in the course of my enjoying music. It won't be a rushed through exercise, Given time I might be willing to experiment anything or I might not. I might find that with one of those tubes I have found audio nirvana and therefore decided that's my utopia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What we are doing here is very mild as compared to the things happening in the mod thread for LD MK6/8. We haven't even open up Elise yet !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Keep up the good work. It's your quest and desire for better sound that led to the birth of Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Like gibosi says ears and gear i posted in another  thread regarding some owners having a hard time with Senns HD800 upper end, i said that the Senns upper end wasnt a problem for me and that i had decades in a noisy Machine Shop and loud music in between to thank for that so no anax mod for me lol. So that's why we have to experiment for ourselves one solution doesnt necessarely fit everybody  Happy Listening indeed.


 

 Mike you're supposed to wear a noise cancelling top of the line headphone in the noisy machine shop. Your productivity would have been better.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Like gibosi says ears and gear i posted in another  thread regarding some owners having a hard time with Senns HD800 upper end, i said that the Senns upper end wasnt a problem for me and that i had decades in a noisy Machine Shop and loud music in between to thank for that so no anax mod for me lol. So that's why we have to experiment for ourselves one solution doesnt necessarely fit everybody  Happy Listening indeed.
> ...


 
 I knew that but they didnt lol


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Couldnt agree more just listen to the first few seconds of the song Reflektor by Arcade Fire  incredible low end


 
 Very good indeed. I shouldn't be bobbing my head at 5am in the morning but I am.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I used to be a metal-head and listened to Fear Factory's Genexus album on the Elise w/ECC31 & 5998 via the HD800.
> 
> *Nep !!! because of you I'm listening to Genexus at 5am !!!
> 
> ...


----------



## nephilim

Very good  Make sure the neighbors enjoy it as much as you do ;->


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks guys...and so who's gonna be the first to open her up and start some modding?!..._Please_ don't tempt me - I think that might just push poor Lukasz over the edge, lol!!!


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Quoting myself from a different thread:
  
  
 Regarding trusting other reviewers opinions, I have come to the following conclusions after reading hundreds of posts on a couple of threads:
  
 If you have a dedicated group of people, a consensus will emerge about which items are in the top tier.  Not every tube is for everybody, but a few perform much better than the rest. It is also possible to find the best price/performance ratio through these reviews.
  
 Reading many posts from the same person, and comparing it with your own impressions, allows you to find people that have the same taste as you, and hear things the same way you do. So if these people come up with something that you did not try, you can rely on what they say.
  
 Then you have people that consistently hear things differently than yourself, but you understand what they like, so you can rely on their opinion as well, knowing that it is not your own preference. Of course, you have to respect their taste - they write honestly what they prefer.
  
 Then you have, unfortunately, angry people (hopefully not too many and not too often), that attack anybody who has a view different than theirs and make fun of and criticize sincere reviewers.
  
 Hopefully, the true purpose of a thread like this is to help each other to find the best tubes and mods that let us listen to the music that is so much a part of our lives.


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks guys...and so who's gonna be the first to open her up and start some modding?!..._Please_ don't tempt me - I think that might just push poor Lukasz over the edge, lol!!!




That's what I'm talking about \m/ 

I'm still not sure if some personal PMs are being talked about in here that made you write a disclaimer or something entirely different. I would want everyone to concentrate on Elise ' s evolution, thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

These arrived this morning all the way from UK !!! They looked good and NOS. Pretty strong readings too.   7.5/2.8 ; 7.5/2.6  and 6.5/2.4 ; 6.5/2.5
  
 Am not wiping it. Those wordings will come off if wiped with a wet cloth. Haven't got a clue how old these are.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> These arrived this morning all the way from UK !!! They looked good and NOS. Pretty strong readings too.   7.5/2.8 ; 7.5/2.6  and 6.5/2.4 ; 6.5/2.5
> Am not wiping it. Those workings will come off if wiped with a wet cloth. Haven't got a clue how old these are.




Ooooooo they are pretty! Big Congrats!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks JV !!!
  
 I don't believe it but I could be very busy again very soon. Don't even know if I'll be around when Elise gets here.


----------



## aqsw

Got my 6f8g to6sn7 adaptors today along with myecc31 to ecc33s. Wish I had an amp!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me if these are any good? Their worth and value? What should I look for in them before hitting the buy button. 70$ for a pair. Only testing was done on them was good or bad grid test, no values. The stuff is with a tube junkie who does not know ****.
 Guys, are these any good?
  

  

  
  
 Thanks
 LR
  
 Edit: I hate it, these are worth nothing  LOL Ignore this post please!


----------



## MIKELAP

aqsw said:


> Got my 6f8g to6sn7 adaptors today along with myecc31 to ecc33s. Wish I had an amp!!


 
 Speaking of 6F8G's i receive  the similar 6C8G  those are usually much cheaper than the 6F8G


----------



## UntilThen

These would be ok if you want cheap 5998 and don't mind glass bits in one tube and different branding. It has no effect on the sound. I have bought Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080 from this aussie seller before. As stated he's getting rid of his tubes and amps.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-5998-2pcs-Tubes-one-labelled-as-AMC-good-condition-/201448192183?hash=item2ee73f78b7
  
 Tubes look pretty good condition and should last a long time.


----------



## UntilThen

Alternatively these. No actual readings apart from being good. Looks good and for a bit more you get same Tung Sol branding. These are 5998 equivalent.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Beautiful-Tested-Good-TungSol-JAN-CTL-5998-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/371460243389?hash=item567cc17fbd
  
 At this price it won't last long that's my gut feelings.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Alternatively these. No actual readings apart from being good. Looks good and for a bit more you get same Tung Sol branding. These are 5998 equivalent.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Beautiful-Tested-Good-TungSol-JAN-CTL-5998-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/371460243389?hash=item567cc17fbd
> 
> At this price it won't last long that's my gut feelings.


 
 Very tempting but i already have several pairs, must let it go lol


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I'm highlighting for Raven or anyone else here in need. I myself have 3 5998 and 2 7236. That's enough. Wouldn't mind another pair of ecc31 tho lol.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm so tempted with this solid baby ss amp at AUD$320. Burson HA-160. Used btw.
  

  
 Mike let's have a look at your Conductor.
  
  
 Wait scrub the Burson, I want this Leben cs-300xs instead. Only $1900


----------



## aqsw

mikelap said:


> Speaking of 6F8G's i receive  the similar 6C8G  those are usually much cheaper than the 6F8G




The 6f8g tubes I got were very inexpensive. Im not worried about +/- $10.00.. I just wish I had my elise to try them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm so tempted with this solid baby ss amp at AUD$320. Burson HA-160. Used btw.
> Wait scrub the Burson, I want this Leben cs-300xs instead. Only $1900 :wink_face:




Don't forget an upgraded power cord for her...

http://www.tweekgeek.com/ct-1-ultimate-power-cord/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw4ZOwBRDoxpjAvPXAl5MBEiQAEek_3gYX6-Y01f-3N0xP8LzGDU2kYfMQz4E-ajdmHaDhYUUaAu8a8P8HAQ

 

.


----------



## aqsw

If you want a ss amp, buy that Cavalli Liquid Carbon before they sell out. 500 units.

My Hegel DAC will be paired with the Elise (se) ad the carbon (balanced). 

Believe me, at $599.00 US., you will never get a bettrr ss amp. 
JMO


----------



## UntilThen

Nah I'm a tube person. See my avatar.

Tweek Geek. That's a funny looking power cable.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw I think your stock tubes will give those a serious run for their money. Both power and driver tubes.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> aqsw I think your stock tubes will give those a serious run for their money. Both power and driver tubes.




I hope so, when I listened to the Carbon I was amazed.
All my headphones are balanced, so this might make a difference. 
Don't take the Carbon as a non contender. I have had many ss amps that cost alot more that cannot hold a candle to it.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Don't forget an upgraded power cord for her...
> 
> http://www.tweekgeek.com/ct-1-ultimate-power-cord/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw4ZOwBRDoxpjAvPXAl5MBEiQAEek_3gYX6-Y01f-3N0xP8LzGDU2kYfMQz4E-ajdmHaDhYUUaAu8a8P8HAQ
> 
> ...



That cord is only a meter. I have to run mine over 10 feet of rec room floor to an ungounded plug. I guess I need a 3 meter one


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget an upgraded power cord for her...
> ...




Might get a little expensive seeing as how this one is "bargain priced": 

CT-1 Ultimate Power Cord $6,900.00

Ouy!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


----------



## UntilThen

oh no aqsw I was referring to your stock tubes vs your other tubes.

I do think the cavalli is good...just a hunch.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks guys...and so who's gonna be the first to open her up and start some modding?!..._Please_ don't tempt me - I think that might just push poor Lukasz over the edge, lol!!!


 

 I need to learn how to use a chain saw first.


----------



## UntilThen

And one more before my road trip. Enjoy guys will miss you all....for 24 hrs


----------



## JazzVinyl

​


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> These arrived this morning all the way from UK !!! They looked good and NOS. Pretty strong readings too.   7.5/2.8 ; 7.5/2.6  and 6.5/2.4 ; 6.5/2.5
> 
> Am not wiping it. Those wordings will come off if wiped with a wet cloth. Haven't got a clue how old these are.


 
 And still no Elise to give a try, but in the meantime you will get your NAD DAC burned...


----------



## UntilThen

Oh NAD is pretty burnt now. Really loving the DAC with the DV.

Everything is here. Waiting for Elise arrival but I'm enjoying great music with the DV.

Nice to meet you btw.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> These arrived this morning all the way from UK !!! They looked good and NOS. Pretty strong readings too.   7.5/2.8 ; 7.5/2.6  and 6.5/2.4 ; 6.5/2.5
> 
> Am not wiping it. Those wordings will come off if wiped with a wet cloth. Haven't got a clue how old these are.


 
  
 Yo UT...they look real good to me...audio nirvana will you soon (hopefully!) be enjoying - BIG time, lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Apologies for even more on this tube, but for those interested in the FDD20, I believe I have finally discovered why this tube is probably no 'ordinary' 6N7G just in a different bottle, with different base...
  
 And why : a. It sounds remarkably similar to the ECC31, and therefore subsequent 32.
 And        : b. They partner so well.
  
 Firstly, with gritted teeth I smashed the bottle of an FDD20 I screwed up when adapting and, shining a bright torch through the Mullard 31, I compared the two very closely.
 And to all intents and purposes, they are PRACTICALLY IDENTICAL. The minor differences are no greater than differences between different ECC32 varieties!  :
  

  
 And then there's the origin of both these tubes...the FDD20 (Philips, Italy) was used in Italian military radio receivers - the NR73 (Mullard's first '31') by the British Navy for the same purpose...and both at exactly the same time. With Mullard by now wholly owned by Philips, I think it is fairly safe to assume they are in fact TWINS...with just a different bottle and base. Anything else doesn't really make sense to me...but of course I could be wrong, lol!
  
 And even if not _totally_ identical twins, this would explain why they are able to function so well together...I rest my case...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Italian radio receiver in question  :
  

  

  
 And given these units were operating at 500kHz and above, perhaps explains the FDD20's (and ECC31's!) easy handling of treble?!...But their amazing ability with bass also is doubly incredible...and surprising?
  
 Thanks for being patient...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

Interesting, H1, I know they sound remarkably alike and compliment one another...

Photos from an unbroken ECC31:



And the Getter:



.


----------



## hpamdr

Great Story H1
  
 I've seen on the Bay some FDD-20 with a kind of grey coating and RVC printed (like the one Gibosi) put on Schiit Lyr Rolling thread..
 Is it the same tube / manufacturer ... ?
  Vs 
  
 And do you know What is the RVC logo I've seen it on some Marconi box But in Germany a tube distributor was Called RVC (Marke), 
  
 I did find also some  P8A socket
  
 You can also get some picture here http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Trioden/FDD20.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> You can also get some picture here http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Trioden/FDD20.htm




Great photos on that site, hpamdr, thanks for that!

Yes, the grey bottle 'RVC' brand you show is the same as the one I bought. The grey is just paint, you can get it all off with a bit of steel wool, revealing that nice blue hue glass, underneath.

As far as we can tell, all FDD20's were made by Phillips in Milan, Italy.

Cheers...

.


----------



## nephilim

Interesting stuff, Colin! Looking forward to finally receiving those adapters and get those FDD20 glowing!!!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm impressed H1 by your findings on the FDD20. I want a ready plug in version....hehehe.... hint hint. And send it down under.

Omg I'm 300kms away from home and someone wants to buy my JDS Lab o2+odac.

Without my headphone and amp I'm suffering withdrawal not even the fancy car sound system can cure.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm impressed H1 by your findings on the FDD20. I want a ready plug in version....hehehe.... hint hint. And send it down under.
> 
> Omg I'm 300kms away from home and someone wants to buy my JDS Lab o2+odac.
> 
> Without my headphone and amp I'm suffering withdrawal not even the fancy car sound system can cure.




No portable rig, UT?

I rolled some 6SN7's in tonight, just to see how spoiled I am now to the magic combo...

Back to the magic combo, it's really not a race anymore.

There is no going back, I'm afraid. 

I have ordered octal bases. Going to try an H1 style "proper conversion" on the next incoming FDD20. 

My wife saw the switch out activity, and after a while said "Are your going to put that pretty blue bulb back in? It's my a favorite" - so there is another factor...in the FDD20's favor.....WAF!!!


----------



## UntilThen

only portable rig I have is my ipod classic and that's not magic for the hd650.
I've delegated my tube rolling in the meantime to my assistant.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​Yee-Haw!!​


----------



## UntilThen

daymmmm so shining I want


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's sonic treat:

"Flight of the cosmic hippo" by Bella Fleck and the Flecktones off the album of the same name as the song.

Note when listening the drums are all electronic, played by "Future Man" who has all the drum pads arranged on an instrument that looks like a guitar....


Oh-oh...here comes Randy Crawford 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​...Cookin'...​
.


----------



## nephilim

Sweet ) I had a notification in the mailbox today... I guess I will pick up my adapters tomorrow!
  
 But I still feel that something might be wrong with my amp... The 5998 I received did reduce the hum by 95% - and were dead quiet on the outside. Last night I noticed that one of the tubes makes a faint high-pitch ringing sound - just for a few seconds, then silence for 10-20s, then it would start again. I'm not sure but I had the impression I could stop the ringing when I lightly hit the tube with a fingernail. And the hum has worsened again 
  
 I wonder whether something in the amp is mistuned such that it eats the tube... hopefully this is nonsense. I will be able to check the amp in another building with fairly new electrical installation. If it hums there (with the stock tubes) I will send it to Lukas to be checked.


----------



## Suuup

Does anyone know how these ECC32 fare in the Elise? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Psvane-CV181-T-matched-pair-ECC32-6SN7-tube-amp-Rohrenverstarker-/391289496279?hash=item5b1aabe2d7:g:YrkAAOSw~bFWF-tL
 So this is a newly produced tube. Anybody have any experience with new tubes? How are they compared to the old ones?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Does anyone know how these ECC32 fare in the Elise?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Psvane-CV181-T-matched-pair-ECC32-6SN7-tube-amp-Rohrenverstarker-/391289496279?hash=item5b1aabe2d7:g:YrkAAOSw~bFWF-tL
> So this is a newly produced tube. Anybody have any experience with new tubes? How are they compared to the old ones?




Hello Suuup, 

In the older thread, some folks who had bought them said they did not measure up, compared to the vintage ones. They felt pretty strongly that this new production tube was not a good buy, sonically.

But it does LOOK nice!!

..


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Does anyone know how these ECC32 fare in the Elise?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Psvane-CV181-T-matched-pair-ECC32-6SN7-tube-amp-Rohrenverstarker-/391289496279?hash=item5b1aabe2d7:g:YrkAAOSw~bFWF-tL
> So this is a newly produced tube. Anybody have any experience with new tubes? How are they compared to the old ones?


 
 Hi Suuup.
 I have the PsVane CV181-TIIs, which are supposedly better, but although very competent tubes, I'm afraid thay aren't really worth that price. They are NOWHERE near the real ECC32 (being basically the same as the 31). And many good NOS 6SN7s are better, for less...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup,
> 
> In the older thread, some folks who had bought them said they did not measure up, compared to the vintage ones. They felt pretty strongly that this new production tube was not a good buy, sonically.
> 
> ...


 
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi Suuup.
> I have the PsVane CV181-TIIs, which are supposedly better, but although very competent tubes, I'm afraid thay aren't really worth that price. They are NOWHERE near the real ECC32 (being basically the same as the 31). And many good NOS 6SN7s are better, for less...


 
 That is very interesting to hear. I wonder why they can't produce to the same quality as they did 70-ish years ago. Damn they look good though.


----------



## gibosi

nephilim said:


> But I still feel that something might be wrong with my amp... The 5998 I received did reduce the hum by 95% - and were dead quiet on the outside. Last night I noticed that one of the tubes makes a faint high-pitch ringing sound - just for a few seconds, then silence for 10-20s, then it would start again. I'm not sure but I had the impression I could stop the ringing when I lightly hit the tube with a fingernail. And the hum has worsened again
> 
> I wonder whether something in the amp is mistuned such that it eats the tube... hopefully this is nonsense. I will be able to check the amp in another building with fairly new electrical installation. If it hums there (with the stock tubes) I will send it to Lukas to be checked.


 
  
 Are your 5998 burned it?
  
 Also, tubes are inherently noisy. Occasional buzzing, humming, popping and such are par for the course. Plus tubes are more susceptible to electrical ground hum and stray RF from cell phones, electrical motors and such. So generally speaking, a tube amp is never going to be as quiet as solid state and I sincerely doubt that there is anything wrong with your amp.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Damn they look good though.


 
  
 The word is 'bling'.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> I wonder whether something in the amp is mistuned such that it eats the tube... hopefully this is nonsense. I will be able to check the amp in another building with fairly new electrical installation. If it hums there (with the stock tubes) I will send it to Lukas to be checked.




It will be interesting to see if your hum problem differ, or are alleviated, at another location, nephilium.

.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> The word is 'bling'.


 
 You're right, they do look very bling. Guess I could order a pair just for show.


----------



## nephilim

gibosi said:


> Are your 5998 burned it?
> 
> Also, tubes are inherently noisy. Occasional buzzing, humming, popping and such are par for the course. Plus tubes are more susceptible to electrical ground hum and stray RF from cell phones, electrical motors and such. So generally speaking, a tube amp is never going to be as quiet as solid state and I sincerely doubt that there is anything wrong with your amp.


 

 Not sure how many hours they have been used before but I have used them for about 30h now. The amp is 1m away and I can hear the sound (like tinnitus) bypassing the HD800 (not the most isolating cans) whenever there is no similar high frequency content in the music.
  
 I thought about getting dampers but I should probably wait a couple of days. It would be so sad, as those tubes sound lovely!


----------



## UntilThen

I like bling. 

Strange my new 5998 never exhibited any noise even in my chinese amp. 

Only the Chatham 6AS7G has some pops and cackles the 1st time I started it up. I was ready to duck under my desk in case it goes north but fortunately it settle down, warm up nicely and produced the most exquisite sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Nep nothing wrong with your 5998 or your amp. You should bring them to my home to try it out.


----------



## nephilim

Hehe... nice try


----------



## UntilThen

H1 for half the price I'll take those chinese ecc32 off you and give them a good home


----------



## Suuup

I'm curious, what DAC do you guys have? I'm looking for a new one..


----------



## UntilThen

I have the NAD D1050. Between this and Arcam irdac I think you've a good choice.

There are off course a lot of chinese dacs that are very good like Audio gd, Matric Mini-pro or Centrance Dacmini.

Then theres the Geek.

The sky is the limit so plan on a budget. You don't need an outrageously expensive dac to get good sound.


----------



## nephilim

I wanted a portable solution and chose the Calyx M.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I have the NAD D1050. Between this and Arcam irdac I think you've a good choice.
> 
> There are off course a lot of chinese dacs that are very good like Audio gd, Matric Mini-pro or Centrance Dacmini.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm looking for something that I could potentially use with a pair of speakers too. 4-500 $? Is it possible?
 Edit: Sorry for off-topic..


----------



## UntilThen

of course 4 to 500 dollars has a lot of choices and should be a very good match for the rest of your system.

almost all of them will give you the ability to connect to a pair of active speakers as well as connection to Elise.


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> I'm curious, what DAC do you guys have? I'm looking for a new one..


 

 I'm using my OPPO bdp-105EU as ultra-flexible source but do not feed using usb as you can directly play from HDD or your NAS directly to your amps.
  
 When i'm on the way, i have SMSL M8 (with linear power supply or 4X 9V battery pack in // ).
  
  
 (Probably my future DAC next year _if i do not spend too much in tubes)_ You can also give a look to gustard X20 ...
  
 And for why not TotalDAC with even a bass bost option for the one that cannot afford a pair of ECC31 +  one pair of GEC 6AS7G or WE 421A 
  
 I prefer a dac with transparent and detailed restitution even if it sound sometime a little dry.


----------



## UntilThen

In my case I dont have a choice. My wife gave me the NAD probably to stop me from spending a lot more on DAC.

Fortunately I like it


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> I'm curious, what DAC do you guys have? I'm looking for a new one..




Hegel HD 12, Black and stealth, just like the Elise. Very close to the same dimensions also..and WOW

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0115/Hegel_HD12_DAC_Review.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl

​
Tung-Sol 5998's arrive. Didn't realize how much the 1970 Mullard 6080's were contributing to the overall synergy of my system with the FDD20/ECC31 combo.
The 5998's do not like them. 

They DO like all my vintage 6SN7 pairs, however. I didn't know these tubes could sound this good.

.


----------



## aqsw

I am one of them that believes the dac is more important than the amp. I dont mind spending more on dac, but there are ome that are way overpriced. You have to be very csreful when buying a dac. Alot of expensive dacs out there that are really not that good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I am one of them that believes the dac is more important than the amp. I dont mind spending more on dac, but there are ome that are way overpriced. You have to be very csreful when buying a dac. Alot of expensive dacs out there that are really not that good.




Amen

I do think it's easy to get burned buying a DAC. There is a lot of marketing hype out there....

.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Amen
> 
> I do think it's easy to get burned buying a DAC. There is a lot of marketing hype out there....
> 
> .




I listened to a $18,000.00 dac when I ordered my Hegel. I thought the HD12 was very comparable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I listened to a $18,000.00 dac when I ordered my Hegel. I thought the HD12 was very comparable.




No kidding! An $18,000.00 DAC!! And people buy them? Too rich for me :rolleyes:

.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> No kidding! An $18,000.00 DAC!! And people buy them? Too rich for me :rolleyes:
> 
> .



Stupid stuff. I listened to them on some $35000.00 speakers. They sounded very nice. No better than the Ethers though.


----------



## mordy

Received a pair of Mazda 6N7G tubes thanks to a tip from Gibosi. Very scant information is available for this brand. It seems that Mazda was a British manufacturer (with a Philips connection?) of vacuum tubes that made many tubes in France. Below are pictures of this mystery tube.
 These tubes look old. There are three logos on the tube. One shows the designation 6N7G in a circle. The second shows the letters STTA with what looks like a set of wings underneath. Under the wings are the letters MO. A third logo says Mazda 6N7G with the code III 8 underneath.
 So it is obvious that this tube was manufactured on August 1943 in Missouri. Just kidding - I have no idea what the inscriptions mean, let alone the letters STTA.
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 First impression is that the tubes are shorter and squatter than my US made pair of 6N7G oldies. The pins were difficult to push into the sockets. At first one tube made a lot of noise and distortion, but it seems to have gone away after one hour.
 Nice tube glow and seemingly better extension in the treble and the bass than my other pair, but way too early to tell how they sound. Will leave them cooking meanwhile.
 Have you seen the name Adzam on tubes? This was a sister brand of Mazda - Mazda backwards. And did you know that in the 30's a light bulb was called a mazda?


----------



## UntilThen

I suppose Adnoh is Honda 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yes that is a short and chubby looking tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Received a pair of Mazda 6N7G tubes thanks to a tip from Gibosi. Very scant information is available for this brand. It seems that Mazda was a British manufacturer (with a Philips connection?) of vacuum tubes that made many tubes in France. Below are pictures of this mystery tube.




Very Good Mordy!

They look nice and I am sure they will *bring* you much.... ahem...

*JOY!!*​
Happy Listening!

.


----------



## mordy

Suddenly the Mazda tubes woke up after some two hours: Strong, fat bass. extended treble, vivid in your face 3 D sound stage. What happened to the initial flat presentation? Could it be that I wandered into FDD20/ECC31 territory?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Suddenly the Mazda tubes woke up after some two hours: Strong, fat bass. extended treble, vivid in your face 3 D sound stage. What happened to the initial flat presentation? Could it be that I wandered into FDD20/ECC31 territory?




Sounds good!!
What power tubes are you running, Mordy?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's sonic treat:

Song title "Hymn to Andromeda"
Artist: Chic Corea and John McLaughlin
Album: Five Peace Band (Live)

Cheers!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

daymmm i should buy mazda
I'll trade my philco for yous


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 The power tubes are 6AS7GA Sylvania with copper rods. GE 6AS7GA with copper rods sound pretty much the same. (I have one and a second one coming. Paid under $9 each for all of them). Shhhh - don't tell anybody - these are giant killers!
  
 Hi UT,
  
 There were four tubes available. Went back to the web site but they were gone - who is the lucky guy?
  
 The bass of the Mazdas is getting stronger. On some recordings the tubes distort and I can't keep the volume on my  Elise at my customary 3:30pm position and have to dial back to 2 pm. These tube are not microphonic at all - impervious to tapping.
  
 The sound stage is getting bigger. And taller too. Man, it's 1:30 am and I can't go to sleep.....Crazy good sound. Viva le STTA! Good bye C3gS!


----------



## UntilThen

Are you still awake Mordy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 bigger, taller, can't sleep...all serious signs of tube fever !!! Wonder if my Philcos sound the same?


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> (Probably my future DAC next year _if i do not spend too much in tubes)_ You can also give a look to gustard X20 ...


 

 Or you can save a lot of money and buy this nearly new 2nd hand for AUD$210....


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Or you can save a lot of money and buy this nearly new 2nd hand for AUD$210....


 
 This is a not a DAC, this is just an USB interface and even 210 A$ is not a great deal see here ... The DAC is the X12 or the newest X20 with two ES9018..
  
 As i said i must limit myself on cheap tubes, i did get 9 used VT-231 for 10 € delivered at home.
  
 About chinese ECC32 can i get a pair for less than 100$ ?


----------



## agnostic1er

Hi guys,
  
 I just edited the end of my review's post with some feelings about:
 - Sylvanias 6080 power tubes
 - Foton drivers
 - Melz drivers
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/13718


----------



## UntilThen

Haha my bad. There's a lot of stuff in your link.
cv181 tii are expensive. you won't buy it for less than $100.
Interesting you're waiting for Elise too. Do you know when yours is arriving.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Haha my bad. There's a lot of stuff in your link.
> cv181 tii are expensive. you won't buy it for less than $100.
> Interesting you're waiting for Elise too. Do you know when yours is arriving.


 

 Yep, Until then i'm waiting for Elise  but no DV to play with power tubes...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine is sitting on the workshop with 3 others nearly assembled, latest news was that front panel was not delivered on time and Lukazs had a wedding on his familly...
 I was tempted to write a letter but some did it already with his WOO 59 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 About ECC32, does someone already tested the ECC32 Jadis Version made in china by TJ Full Music ?


----------



## UntilThen

Don't think anyone has. Interesting it's stated as 'Sounds similar to vintage Mullard ECC32/CV181'.
  
 H1 has this and given his impressions as being not worth the money it's commanding:-
  

  
 I'm still waiting on Lukasz to tell me when is the shipping date for my Elise. Was supposed to be end of this week which is now. DV is sounding so good tho so I can wait.


----------



## UntilThen

agnostic1er said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just edited the end of my review's post with some feelings about:
> - Sylvanias 6080 power tubes
> ...


 

 Agnos you're probably the first to test the Melz drivers thoroughly. The holes plate (1578) are a lot more expensive. I wonder which is the type Feliks Audio offered as upgrade option on their website.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Received a pair of Mazda 6N7G tubes thanks to a tip from Gibosi. Very scant information is available for this brand.


 
  
 This is the French Mazda, separate from the UK Mazda and the Belgian Mazda (Adzam).
  


mordy said:


> These tubes look old. There are three logos on the tube. One shows the designation 6N7G in a circle. The second shows the letters STTA with what looks like a set of wings underneath. Under the wings are the letters MO. A third logo says Mazda 6N7G with the code III 8 underneath.


 
  
 I think that's a month-year date code.
  
 STTA = Service Technique des Télécommunications de l'Air, think French Air Force.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> The sound stage is getting bigger. And taller too. Man, it's 1:30 am and I can't go to sleep.....Crazy good sound. Viva le STTA! Good bye C3gS!




Loving a pair of Franch made 6N7G's....

Hmmmm...

Sounds like *JOYBRINGERS* to me LOL

You GO, Mordy!

And the paltry price you paid for your Power tubes...crazy good deal, too!

.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Received a pair of Mazda 6N7G tubes thanks to a tip from Gibosi. Very scant information is available for this brand. It seems that Mazda was a British manufacturer (with a Philips connection?) of vacuum tubes that made many tubes in France. Below are pictures of this mystery tube.
> These tubes look old. There are three logos on the tube. One shows the designation 6N7G in a circle. The second shows the letters STTA with what looks like a set of wings underneath. Under the wings are the letters MO. A third logo says Mazda 6N7G with the code III 8 underneath.
> So it is obvious that this tube was manufactured on August 1943 in Missouri. Just kidding - I have no idea what the inscriptions mean, let alone the letters STTA.
> 
> ...


 
 Those guys are in Pensylvania still waiting for my 2 pairs probably end of the week thanks for the pictures looking forward to them.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> The power tubes are 6AS7GA Sylvania with copper rods. GE 6AS7GA with copper rods sound pretty much the same. (I have one and a second one coming. Paid under $9 each for all of them). Shhhh - don't tell anybody - these are giant killers!
> 
> ...


 
 When i found the site there were 8 tubes available i bought 4 and there were 4 left how  many did you get mordy. Edt: just saw that you got a pair so they were 2 left


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Agnos you're probably the first to test the Melz drivers thoroughly. The holes plate (1578) are a lot more expensive. I wonder which is the type Feliks Audio offered as upgrade option on their website.




The cheaper version w/o holes. At least in case of mine.


----------



## hpamdr

Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> STTA = Service Technique des Télécommunications de l'Air, think French Air Force.


 
 You are Right mon ami !
 Most famous tube brand in France where Grammond (Lyon), Visseaux (Lyon), La RadioTechnique RTC (Started also in Lyon) and joined Thompson CSF,  Néotron (Clichy) -> RTC , la "Compagnie des lampes"-CIFTE-Mazda-Belvu. We even had Philips in the 30s near Brive.
   
  
 Now only Thales still build some tube for satelite near Thonon les Bains..


----------



## gibosi

hpamdr said:


> About ECC32, does someone already tested the ECC32 Jadis Version made in china by TJ Full Music ?


 
  
 These are nothing more than 6SN7 with a sexy name and a sexy bottle. Again, they are electrically identical to 6SN7. The real ECC32 is a rather different tube and these Chinese tubes are a lie. They are nothing like an ECC32.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> The cheaper version w/o holes. At least in case of mine.


 

 So what did you think of the Melz Nep?


----------



## hpamdr

gibosi said:


> These are nothing more than 6SN7 with a sexy name and a sexy bottle. Again, they are electrically identical to 6SN7. The real ECC32 is a rather different tube and these Chinese tubes are a lie. They are nothing like an ECC32.


 

 A Shop near home sale them  with 30 days free return policy.... I will Give a try when the Elise will be at home.
 For now i will get 4.5 used pair of 6SN7GT/VT-231 i got for 10€ in an antique shop.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> A Shop near home sale them  with 30 days free return policy.... I will Give a try when the Elise will be at home.
> For now i will get 4.5 used pair of 6SN7GT/VT-231 i got for 10€ in an antique shop.




What a fantastic deal!

Get yourself a pair of Tung-Sol 5998's and you will have a blast, rolling these drivers.

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Thanks to Oskari and Hypnos  for helping to decipher what the Mazda tubes are. So is the date March 1938?  (III  8) and made for the French Air Force by Mazda France.. It actually went through my mind that the wings had to do with the military. The only thing left now is what MO stands for. (Military something?)
  
 So Mikelap got 4, I got 2, and ? got the last two.
  
 The tubes have completed 11 hours of the 48 hour burn in marathon so far. Did I imagine things last night? Let's check. Switch off the I enjoy this mode, and switch to the hard nosed analytical listening mode.
  
 Bass: Full, great, tuneful, detailed but not pistol shot slam (maybe with full burn in).
 Treble: No sibilance, detailed and delicate, very well extended.
 Mid Range: Sweet, very good detail. Timbre excellent.
 Sound Stage: Feels like sitting in row 5 in a concert hall - huge 3D sound stage, all the instruments clearly delineated with excellent separation, even on poor old recordings. Vivid, lively, in the face presentation. You know those recordings where the sound stage extends outside the speakers; well,  that's the feeling.
  
 What more can you ask for? Clarity, timbre and sound stage are superlative.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to Oskari and Hypnos  for helping to decipher what the Mazda tubes are. So is the date March 1938?  (III  8) and made for the French Air Force by Mazda France.. It actually went through my mind that the wings had to do with the military. The only thing left now is what MO stands for. (Military something?)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well mordy...it looks like you - just as did JV - have shown that the 6N7G in our Elises can in fact perform FAR better than in gibosi's Glenn amp. Which makes good sense to me, as the two amps are obviously vastly different machines! The Feliks-Audio guys have inadvertently created something that is _way_ more versatile than we ever even imagined just a short while ago - Lukasz himself can hardly believe what we have been doing with his baby...or the ensuing unexpected results, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am so glad you are over the moon already...and that's before _extended_ burn-in. Just watch that poor ol' ticker, mon ami...but what a way to go, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And UT...will probably move those PsVanes fairly soon - will keep you posted!


----------



## gibosi

hypnos1 said:


> Well mordy...it looks like you - just as did JV - have shown that the 6N7G in our Elises can in fact perform FAR better than in gibosi's Glenn amp. Which makes good sense to me, as the two amps are obviously vastly different machines! The Feliks-Audio guys have inadvertently created something that is _way_ more versatile than we ever even imagined just a short while ago - Lukasz himself can hardly believe what we have been doing with his baby...or the ensuing unexpected results, lol!


 
  
 Yes, the Glenn being a true OTL, is different than the Elise. However, I had the luxury of comparing the 6A6 to what are considered by many to be the best 6SN7. So until someone with an Elise can compare a Sylvania 6N7G/6A6 to a Sylvania 6SN7W, a Tung-Sol 6N7G/6A6 to a Tung-Sol RPBG 6SN7GT and a National Union 6N7G/6A6 to a gray-glass National Union 6SN7GT or a National Union 6F8G, then I would suggest that the jury is still out on the 6N7G.
  
 All that said, I have yet to try a Mazda 6N7G, and it may well be better than the US brands I have tried.


----------



## hpamdr

S.T.T.A. is in France Service technique des télécommunica-tions de l’Air it was created on 1947 so if the tube is from 38 the logo id not applicable there. The STTA logo is more like the one i put at the end of the mesage,
 On ebay someone claim that it is for Royal Navy see object "262024803550" on Ebay ....


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Well mordy...it looks like you - just as did JV - have shown that the 6N7G in our Elises can in fact perform FAR better than in gibosi's Glenn amp. Which makes good sense to me, as the two amps are obviously vastly different machines! The Feliks-Audio guys have inadvertently created something that is _way_ more versatile than we ever even imagined just a short while ago - Lukasz himself can hardly believe what we have been doing with his baby...or the ensuing unexpected results, lol!
> 
> I am so glad you are over the moon already...and that's before _extended_ burn-in. Just watch that poor ol' ticker, mon ami...but what a way to go, lol!! :wink_face:




I had a shocker last night....

I lovely set of Tung-Sol 5998's arrived and I popped them in. Sounded horrid! The 5998's did not like the FDD20/ECC31 combo....at all. Way tooo much bass, treble was too hot and sizzly, and a giant suck out in the mids. I could not believe it. Went back to the 1970 6080 Mullards, and the happy magic returned.

I did clearly hear that the 5998's LOVE all my 6SN7's...the same ones I thought were very lackluster in detail and control and I thought "could easily be beaten" when I was using the default Russian power tubes (and came across the 6N7G's)..

I got curious after Mordy's post, and tried both sets of my 6N7G's with the 5998's - not good! Detail was lacking and they did NOT shine at all. Sounded as lackluster as my 6SN7's when I used the 'lesser' power tubes. Then switched out to the default Russian powers...and the 6N7G's came alive, as I remembered them (and as as Mordy reports) they sounded fantastic, with those powers.

My conclusion is that you must consider the drivers AND the power tubes in the Elise. Synergy can instantly be lost, with the wrong combo.

Were going to need a database or spreadsheet to keep track of which drivers like which powers....

.


----------



## gibosi

JV makes a very good point about synergy. I made all my comparisons with GEC 6AS7 powers and a Cossor 53KU rectifier. The 6A6/6N7G may well shine with a different tube complement.


----------



## UntilThen

Synergy extends to the headphone and dac being used too. As well as the music you've selected to do your listening test. hd800, hd650 and dt990 are pretty vastly different sounding. What is strong solid bass for one might be over the top for another because of the combination use. And off course our ears are not exactly the same as well as musical preferences.
  
 I've never had a tube that I dislike so much that I want to throw it away though....maybe the stock chinese tubes that came with the DV.
  
 And the search goes on...


----------



## mordy

Hi hpamdr,
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/262024803550?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D262024803550%26_rdc%3D1
  
 The above tube, that you referenced which is for sale on eBay now, is 100% identical to the the pair I have (incl the date) with the difference that I paid less for the pair including shipping than this seller wants for shipping alone. The seller did not read the markings carefully - it is a 6N7G tube, not 6N7.
  
 Regarding the date I only guessed. If the STTA was created in 1947, then a much more likely date is March 1948 - I'll happily settle for that.
  
 Thanks for the information - any inkling what MO means - Militaire something?
  
 In the eBay ad the seller states army-navy, but wings go better with the Air Force than army-navy.
  
 Many thanks for taking the time to look into this.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I had a shocker last night....
> 
> I lovely set of Tung-Sol 5998's arrived and I popped them in. Sounded horrid! The 5998's did not like the FDD20/ECC31 combo....at all. Way tooo much bass, treble was too hot and sizzly, and a giant suck out in the mids. I could not believe it. Went back to the 1970 6080 Mullards, and the happy magic returned.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great news, JV. This should be really useful for those deliberating what tubes to go for...
  
 And from what you say, it would appear the 5998 is a particularly tricky tube to match just right, depending on the particular amp. I suspect this could be one reason why the GEC 6AS7Gs appear to have more love than the 5998. Even though gibosi's GECs apparently didn't make the 6N7G shine (but of course different amp, different make), they absolutely ADORE the FDD20/ECC31 combo - unlike your 5998s!...again, _in our Elises!!_...So things are obviously not quite so straightforward...are they ever, lol?!
  
 But we will certainly need comprehensive reports on as many different combinations as possible...especially for those who don't want to find out the hard way. But there are those who say we _have_ to take that bumpy road in the true quest for excellence and audio nirvana!!! No doubt about it...the best lessons are often the most painful ones...but preferably not _too_ much so on the poor ol' wallet!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Great news, JV. This should be really useful for those deliberating what tubes to go for...
> 
> And from what you say, it would appear the 5998 is a particularly tricky tube to match just right, depending on the particular amp. I suspect this could be one reason why the GEC 6AS7Gs appear to have more love than the 5998. Even though gibosi's GECs apparently didn't make the 6N7G shine (but of course different amp, different make), they absolutely ADORE the FDD20/ECC31 combo - unlike your 5998s!...again, _in our Elises!!_...So things are obviously not quite so straightforward...are they ever, lol?!
> 
> But we will certainly need comprehensive reports on as many different combinations as possible...especially for those who don't want to find out the hard way. But there are those who say we _have_ to take that bumpy road in the true quest for excellence and audio nirvana!!! No doubt about it...the best lessons are often the most painful ones...but preferably not _too_ much so on the poor ol' wallet!





Sounds good H1...

I do think that spreadsheet or page one of this thread (like they do in the 6SN7 reference thread) to record the driver/power combinations that work would be a great benefit to all.

I will testify that:
The 1970 Mullard 6080 loves the FDD20/ECC31 combination.
The 1970 Mullard 6080 loves the 6N7G's
The 1970 Mullard 6080 loves the C3g's
The default Russian Power tubes loves the 6N7G's

The 5998's love 6SN7's (all that I have tried, but have special love for Sylvanias')

And on and on...

Appreciate!!

.
.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> So what did you think of the Melz Nep?


 

 Difficult to tell, as I quickly started to change power tubes during burn-in, then got the two 7N7 pairs (which I need to sell soon) and then moved to the c3g. I remember the Melz to be a bit more focused on the kids and to be not as detailed as the c3g. I guess I have to roll back to see, but I just received the FDD20 adapters 
  
 Speaking of... my other three pairs of adapters from xulingmrs look really good (and of course work like a charm). But the FDD20 looks really cheap - some dents, scratches and grind marks. I either need to make them smooth and paint them or add some dents and scratches to the Elise


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Difficult to tell, as I quickly started to change power tubes during burn-in, then got the two 7N7 pairs (which I need to sell soon) and then moved to the c3g. I remember the Melz to be a bit more focused on the kids and to be not as detailed as the c3g. I guess I have to roll back to see, but I just received the FDD20 adapters
> 
> Speaking of... my other three pairs of adapters from xulingmrs look really good (and of course work like a charm). But the FDD20 looks really cheap - some dents, scratches and grind marks. I either need to make them smooth and paint them or add some dents and scratches to the Elise




What is your normal everyday driver/powers combination, Nephilim?

And I did paint my FDD20 adapter black, and drilled two holes for the incoming 12v so it didn't have to waterfall in over the top:

​
By no means perfect, but a step in the right direction.

.


----------



## mordy

Hi Nephilim,
  
 Got two pairs of adapters from a Chinese seller (I think the same one). One pair was good, but in the second set I could not fit the pins into the socket. and the fourth piece looked beat up with poor soldering and scratches.
  
 After complaining to the seller, he sent me another pair. Left good feedback, but eBay feedback is a very powerful thing, and every eBay seller is very concerned about having good feedback.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Thanks to Oskari and Hypnos  for helping to decipher what the Mazda tubes are. So is the date March 1938?  (III  8) and made for the French Air Force by Mazda France.


 
  
 The brand is Mazda but the manufacturer could be somebody else, e.g., Visseaux.
  


jazzvinyl said:


> ​


 
  


mordy said:


> Regarding the date I only guessed. If the STTA was created in 1947, then a much more likely date is March 1948 - I'll happily settle for that.


 
  
 I think that 1948 is more likely as well. It could even be that they found some old stock and relabeled it in 1958, but that's just speculation.


----------



## UntilThen

I wouldn't say that 5998 is hard to pair with. It pairs very well with 6SN7s and has been very favourably received by old timers on this forum. 5998 does have certain traits one of which is a remarkably solid and extended bass. Paired with another driver tube of the same characteristics would / could result in too much of a good thing.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Difficult to tell, as I quickly started to change power tubes during burn-in, then got the two 7N7 pairs (which I need to sell soon) and then moved to the c3g. I remember the Melz to be a bit more focused on the kids and to be not as detailed as the c3g. I guess I have to roll back to see, but I just received the FDD20 adapters
> 
> Speaking of... my other three pairs of adapters from xulingmrs look really good (and of course work like a charm). But the FDD20 looks really cheap - some dents, scratches and grind marks. I either need to make them smooth and paint them or add some dents and scratches to the Elise


 

 Interesting you're selling off your 7N7. They are one of my favourite drivers at the moment. I think they pair very well with the 5998. However seeing you have all the choice tubes it's easy to see why you've less interest in the 7N7. Time will tell when I get to sample them when Elise arrives.
  
 Scratches are retro looking that adds to the appeal.


----------



## Lord Raven

I almost bought a pair of 5998 to later pair it with ECC31 tubes. I am glad I did not buy it yet. My eyes now are set on a pair of Chatham 6AS7G copper rods, if anyone knows or is selling, can send me a PM  

 Cheers 
 LR


----------



## UntilThen

I absolutely love my 4 Chatham 6AS7G not forgetting those Mullard 6080 too. In all honesty I love my other power tubes too, GE 6AS7GA, GE 6AS7G, HP 6080, Dumont 6080WA. I wouldn't advise to shoot straight for the most expensive power tube because if you don't like it it's a big waste of money. Just like food, you need to sample the hawker stalls before moving up to 3 stars Michelin restaurants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....and then you discover that the 3 stars aren't that great after all.
  
 I love this song and it's revolving in my head for a few days.


----------



## hypnos1

Re your previous post on 5998...

 Yo UT... and as well, the 6N7 etc. have much higher gain than the 6SN7, plus the 5998 is a different spec to the 6AS7G....so no wonder, lol!
  
 I'll now say goodnight all...


----------



## UntilThen

Goodnight Hypnos1. We're now 1 more hour apart due to daylight savings.


----------



## UntilThen

You may have seen this but this is a person's views of the various power tubes based on the Crack.
  
http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html


----------



## aqsw

hpamdr said:


> Yep, Until then i'm waiting for Elise  but no DV to play with power tubes...   Mine is sitting on the workshop with 3 others nearly assembled, latest news was that front panel was not delivered on time and Lukazs had a wedding on his familly...
> I was tempted to write a letter but some did it already with his WOO 59
> 
> 
> About ECC32, does someone already tested the ECC32 Jadis Version made in china by TJ Full Music ?


I hope mine is one of te other nearly assembled. I got a delivery date of early November.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Yes, the Glenn being a true OTL, is different than the Elise.


 
 I'm really curious now. What is Elise?
 A bit late to ask that now that she's showing up at the door anytime soon....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm really curious now. What is Elise?
> A bit late to ask that now that she's showing up at the door anytime soon....




There is no published schematic that I know of.

OTL (Output Transformer-Less) means the output is connected directly to a tube and results in a situation where the target headphones for the amp, will have a high impedance.

Elise is advertised as suitable for 32 ohm 'phones, and higher. 

So that fact would indicate that an output transformer is present, to handle impedance matching, for a wider range of suitable headphone impedances.

.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg Russel Brand he's so funny. Just watch a segment of him in Australia.
  
 You mean they remove LESS and include MORE ?  As long as she's beautiful when she arrives !!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Calm yourself, Elise is beautiful and needs a lot of space. Clear your study table and buy better power cable and spare a socket for it. Put your old gear to rest, give your ears a break. This might help you patiently wait for it.
  
 I waited for a month and stopped using the forum to let the time pass quickly, when it arrived I did not have a DAC, HPs or a place to house it properly. Still trying to arrange my HPs which are stuck in the Oz, DAC arrived but my friend forgot to send the HPs. They're still in his closet. I hate the drag he put me through. Now I am hunting tubes cause of the DAC. Never ending business.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​


----------



## Lord Raven

I heard someone looking for a DAC, I think this is a great option. Price is good, works best with every format you throw at it. Comes with a dedicated LPS. Price is also good, 550$, MSRP would probably be 1000++
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784827/new-pulse-single-ended-and-lps


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's Sonic Treat:

Title: Suite 15
Artist: Yellowjackets
Album: Altered State

Listen for moans and sighs during the piano solo...

Hurts so good 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My second FDD20 and adapter are due to be delivered today. In lightning time, compared to the first set 

And a photo from this AM's dog walk:

​
Cheers, all....


----------



## UntilThen

I put on my crash helmet and decide to test the 6N7G Philco in my Darkvoice 336se. Lo and behold it didn't blow up but instead I'm stunned with the sound that greets me. I'm using a cheap RCA 6AS7GA which Oskari thinks is a 6080 which someone wrongly labelled. Bass is very nice, solid and controlled. I find the mids and treble likewise very pleasant. There's some hum from the tube which I think will go away with burn in. This is a real surprise for me. I didn't think my DV will be able to handle the 6N7G. A greater surprise because it sounded good without break in and the Philco cost only $15.50 NOS.
  
 I'm now shaking with excitement as I contemplate putting in an ECC31....if you hear an explosion you'll know it's coming from down under.
  

  
 Spinning 'Another break in the wall' by Pink Floyd now and it's sounding good. The highs didn't sound as clear as my 7N7 but I needed to listen more to a variety of songs ...very enjoyable tho.
  
 Roberta Flack on 'The first time ever I saw your face' comes through sweetly now. I'm smiling now. 'Killing me softly with this song' ...the kick drum comes in with real impact.
  
 Now Muse on 'Dead Inside' ...omg this thing is vibrating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Led Zeppelin on 'Stairway to heaven' ...yes I'm heading there now.
  
 First impression counts and I'm already sold on this 6N7G.


----------



## nephilim

Just finished the wiring and now two FDD20 are glowing in the Elise... at least a bit as there is little glow. I did not want to sacrifice my 5998 in case something goes wrong and put in the RCA 6080. Good news: no hum (apart from the background hum) - the power supply has a the pin connector and minus is linked to earth per default so no further action was necessary. The sound? Maybe I am a bit deaf tonight but it sounds full, wide soundstage, good bass... very similar to the previous ECC31/5998 combo. Maybe a bit limited in the treble department and less detailed.
  
 But those adapters look ugly!


----------



## UntilThen

Good Nep. We're rocking from both sides of the world.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Haha Led Zeppelin never sounded so good before....this is wrong at 6:30am
  
 Wow I'm listening to Led Zep song after song and I can't stop.
  
 This 6N7G has a bigger wall of sound for sure.


----------



## UntilThen

I have in now the Tung Sol 5998 and Philco 6N7G. It's dynamite and punchy. Solid, engaging. Certainly not too much of a good thing. I'm listening to my fav female vocalist Randy Crawford 'Rainy night in Georgia' and I'm so glad I found tube amp and these tubes. Also listen to Led Zeppelin 'Whole lotta love' ...unbelievable ..
  
 already the hum is much softer now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have in now the Tung Sol 5998 and Philco 6N7G. It's dynamite and punchy. Solid, engaging. Certainly not too much of a good thing. I'm listening to my fav female vocalist Randy Crawford 'Rainy night in Georgia' and I'm so glad I found tube amp and these tubes. Also listen to Led Zeppelin 'Whole lotta love' ...unbelievable ..




Hello UT...

Yeah!! I love that Randy Crawford "Rainy Night" - I am so glad you know that one, too!

And glad the 6N7G is working so well for you, They are great sounding tubes, for peanuts 

Yeah for us!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Just finished the wiring and now two FDD20 are glowing in the Elise... at least a bit as there is little glow. I did not want to sacrifice my 5998 in case something goes wrong and put in the RCA 6080. Good news: no hum (apart from the background hum) - the power supply has a the pin connector and minus is linked to earth per default so no further action was necessary. The sound? Maybe I am a bit deaf tonight but it sounds full, wide soundstage, good bass... very similar to the previous ECC31/5998 combo. Maybe a bit limited in the treble department and less detailed.
> 
> But those adapters look ugly!




Hello Neph!

Very good, glad to hear you have the FDD20 pair going! I hope to have a pair running in a few hours, too 

You will hear them improve, all the way through about 150 hours...they just get better and better!

I just bought a can of Rustoleum flat black "high heat" spray paint. Flat blacking the adapters make them less offensive looking 

Keep the FDD20 pair impressions coming...

Congrats, again, sir!

.


----------



## UntilThen

Wish me luck now as I put in the $100 ECC31...shivers. Please don't blow up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Wish me luck now as I put in the $100 ECC31...shivers. Please don't blow up.




LOL....

Luck!!

.


----------



## Lord Raven

Great news, I just stepped into the tube rolling world with the ECC31 tubes. Thanks to Mikelap and H1 for their support. 
  
 I am still searching for power tubes to pair it with. I am not sure about the 5998. What should I go for? I am looking for my end game tubes, not the GEC A1834 which are over 200/tube  
  
 Chatham 6AS7G copper rod posts are my top of the wish list, kindly suggest!
  
 Cheers
 LR


----------



## UntilThen

Phew I saw a red flame travel up the filament and my heart almost pop out. I remove the 5998 then and replace with Chatham 6AS7G and hoping that my ECC31 is still alive LOL.
 Flick the switch on and yeah it light up. Hum is a lot louder with the ECC31. I think it has just been roused from sleep after many years. I put on 'Rainy nights' again and I start to smile again. Sweet sound comes through my ears. However because I was so elated that my ECC31 is still alive I couldn't pick out any noticeable differences between it and the 6N7G. I decided then that I will stop the test and keep the ECC31s for Elise....


----------



## UntilThen

This is a real surprise because of the less favourable reviews given to the 6N7. I have in my DV now the Chatham 6AS7G and Marconi 6N7. It is more airy, clearer and spacious sounding and listening to Leonard Cohen heavy bass tune 'In my secret life'  the bass is tight and controlled. I'm astounded. I'm loving the 6N7 more than the 7N7 now. Haha they are 1 number difference. I know what I will be doing. Getting a pair of 6N7GT to complete the testing. I'm SO glad I bought the Marconi 6N7.
  
 In the days ahead I'll be doing extended listening and report further...I can't wait to try all these tubes in Elise.
  

  
 Wow 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' by Annie Lennox sounded so good. Goose bumps.
  
 I only paid US$5.23 for the pair of Marconi 6N7. Phew I need to look for more.


----------



## JazzVinyl

That Marconi 6N7 looks really nice, UT! Think Mikelap said he liked his 6N7's as well.

I got my 2nd FDD20 adapter, but, despite the tracking number saying sorting was complete and the FDD20 was out for delivery...the mailman said he didn't have it. 
Will get it Monday evening, I guess.

The 2nd adapter already has its holes, drilled, pins 7 and 8 removed and has been flat blacked...I will work on wiring when the paint dries.



​
Cheers!!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Great news, I just stepped into the tube rolling world with the ECC31 tubes. Thanks to Mikelap and H1 for their support.
> 
> I am still searching for power tubes to pair it with. I am not sure about the 5998. What should I go for? I am looking for my end game tubes, not the GEC A1834 which are over 200/tube
> 
> ...


 
 If you don't want too much bass, go for the Chatham 6AS7G or the Mullard 6080 / CV2984. They'll match well with the ECC31 no doubt.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> That Marconi 6N7 looks really nice, UT! Think Mikelap said he liked his 6N7's as well.
> 
> I got my 2nd FDD20 adapter, but, despite the tracking number saying sorting was complete and the FDD20 was out for delivery...the mailman said he didn't have it.
> Will get it Monday evening, I guess.
> ...


 
 Those adapters are looking pretty JV. Can't wait to hear your impressions of 2 fdd20.


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


> That Marconi 6N7 looks really nice, UT! Think Mikelap said he liked his 6N7's as well.
> 
> I got my 2nd FDD20 adapter, but, despite the tracking number saying sorting was complete and the FDD20 was out for delivery...the mailman said he didn't have it.
> Will get it Monday evening, I guess.
> ...


 
  
 Looks good! I need to smooth & paint mine as well. I am interested in your wiring approach - where do you drill the holes and how do you connect the external wires?
  
 The Elise has been running for about 3.5h and the trafo housing feels as warm as usual - despite the driver tube power being delivered from the external supply.


----------



## UntilThen

Help guys. What is this? Says it's 6N7G but looks like ECC31. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I like !!!
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-VINTAGE-AIR-MINISTRY-RADIO-VALVE-TUBE-6N7G-10E-453-/171971600324?hash=item280a4e5fc4:g:070AAOSwYHxWInLY


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Looks good! I need to smooth & paint mine as well. I am interested in your wiring approach - where do you drill the holes and how do you connect the external wires?
> 
> The Elise has been running for about 3.5h and the trafo housing feels as warm as usual - despite the driver tube power being delivered from the external supply.




Hello Neph...

When I can work on the wires, I will make some photos and let you see what I am doing.

The 6v of heater current is still being delivered to the sockets by the Elise (even though your not using it, with the FDD20's).
I do find (like Mordy) that using adapters keeps things cooler on the deck, than when not using them. So it's all good.

..


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> If you don't want too much bass, go for the Chatham 6AS7G or the Mullard 6080 / CV2984. They'll match well with the ECC31 no doubt.


 
 Actually I don't want too much of anything in particular, just a little bit of everything.. I can see you have Chatham 6AS7G in your DV, do you have to pair these tubes for Elise when it arrives or you already bought pairs?
  
 I wrote to that Aussie seller about 5998 and he did not reply, then JV said those don't go so well with the ECC31. Now I am back on the road again 
  
 I'll not spend more money on power tubes, maybe mordy can suggest something economical and readily available. I heard him say something like 6AS7GA, what are these tubes? Can anyone educate me please? What brand should I sought for?


----------



## UntilThen

I have 4 Chatham 6AS7G 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 If you're going to buy RCA 6AS7G you might as well stick with the stock power tubes IMO. Those Svetlana aren't too bad.
  
 It all depends on individuals. Nep likes his 5998/ECC31 combo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I'll not spend more money on power tubes, maybe mordy can suggest something economical and readily available. I heard him say something like 6AS7GA, what are these tubes? Can anyone educate me please? What brand should I sought for?




LR...I said 5998 was not good with an FDD20/ECC31 combo. 

I do recommend the Mullard 6080 which is just right for my Beyer DT-990's.

Good deal too, here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-MULLARD-CV2984-6080-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-MATCHED-YEAR-1969-/121767434336

Exact pair I bought, from same seller.

If you have bass weak 'phones then it could be another power would be better. 
But the Beyer's love the Mullard 6080's.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have 4 Chatham 6AS7G
> If you're going to buy RCA 6AS7G you might as well stick with the stock power tubes IMO. Those Svetlana aren't too bad.
> It all depends on individuals. Nep likes his 5998/ECC31 combo.




And the 'phones used.


----------



## Lord Raven

You started early, I just bought my first pair of ECC31  You're way ahead in the game, I could borrow a pair from you in future 

 I am closer to Chatham than ever, it's a matter of days now. Before I thought I would never ever buy tubes, now I am buy but only the end game ones.
  
 I found one, I don't know where would I find another.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I can endorsed the Mullard. I paid AUD$75 for mine from an aussie seller.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes I can endorse the Mullards. I paid AUD$75 for mine from an aussie seller.




The Mullards appear to do wonderful things with the midrange. Which makes them 'different' than most powers IMHO...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> You started early, I just bought my first pair of ECC31  You're way ahead in the game, I could borrow a pair from you in future
> 
> I am closer to Chatham than ever, it's a matter of days now. Before I thought I would never ever buy tubes, now I am buy but only the end game ones.
> 
> I found one, I don't know where would I find another.


 

 There is no end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just when you think you've found the end game tube. In the case of tubes I think it's ok to have a selections. Works with diff headphones and tube amps. Because only you yourself can decide what's best for you.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi JV,
  
 I think I have misunderstood your post. You're probably right, can you test both ECC31 tubes with 5998 and write about it? You might save me some dollars.
  
 I just went to the ad you posted, the tubes on Langrex are I think cheaper, for 30GPB which is 47$. But I am still holding on, 6080 has mixed reviews. Some say they lack bass. I am not sure though. 
  
 My headphones are Focal Spirit One, they are bass heavy on the graphs but I don't feel it. I bought HD600, still in transit. These would be my main HPs.
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> LR...I said 5998 was not good with an FDD20/ECC31 combo.
> 
> I do recommend the Mullard 6080 which is just right for my Beyer DT-990's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed!


jazzvinyl said:


> And the 'phones used.


 
  
 I only listen to Jazz mostly, without vocal lyrics LOL Looks like 6080 aren't my kind 


jazzvinyl said:


> The Mullards appear to do wonderful things with the midrange. Which makes them 'different' than most powers IMHO...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Also LR...

I said the 5998's made a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes sound SUPER nice! 

So that is another way to go. The 5998's bring 6SN7's to a new level of enjoyment. 
No adapters are needed and that makes the amp look nice, as well.

I am sorry, but I don't have a pair of ECC31's. I just have one that was bought for a bargain price. The plan was to be patient and look for another as a good deal, when it becomes avail.

Contact nephilim, for an opinion on ECC31/5998 and his preferred HP....
.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> There is no end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Indeed. However, I am the end game kind of a guy, you know me 
  
 DAC/HP/TubeAmp are all my end games LOL Maybe not the tubes haha


----------



## Suuup

I see there's an ODAC on Massdrop for 120 $. How does it pair with the Elise? Does it even do the Elise justice? Gahh, this world of audio, it is overwhelming!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

I won't go into the ODAC discussion. Suffice to say I like my O2+ODAC but I just sold it.
  
 My 2nd Philco 6N7G is without hum what a bonus. Can't understand both tubes are same vintage one hum one doesn't.
  
 Raven the 6AS7GA Mordy talks about is the GE brand. I have a short impression of it on page 3 of this thread. For $11 from Parts Express no harm trying it out. Another cheap alternative is the $9.90 French Thompson 6080WA from Parts Connexion... aqsw bought a pair...quite good review from the 6AS7G tube rolling thread.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Also LR...
> 
> I said the 5998's made a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes sound SUPER nice!
> 
> ...


 
 Hi JV,
  
 Can you show me the link to the suggested tubes? You might save me dollars 
  
 Also, I am negotiating on a pair of Mullard 6080WA tubes, how much did you pay for your pair from Cyprus? I found a pair on Head-fi and the guy is willing to give me a good price.
  
 You made a wise decision on buying single tube  I could learn from your tube hunting skills!!!! Thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Can you show me the link to the suggested tubes? You might save me dollars
> 
> ...




Hello LR, sure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-MULLARD-CV2984-6080-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-MATCHED-YEAR-1969-/121767434336


----------



## Lord Raven

I was talking about this tube, the ad below is Mullard 6080.
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Also LR...
> 
> I said the 5998's made a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes sound SUPER nice!


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello LR, sure:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-MULLARD-CV2984-6080-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-MATCHED-YEAR-1969-/121767434336


 
  
 Edit: Both my negotiations for Chatham and 6080 ended in smoke. Damn it!!!! Back to the start  Now I want something else.. Entirely different!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven the 6AS7GA Mordy talks about is the GE brand. I have a short impression of it on page 3 of this thread. For $11 from Parts Express no harm trying it out. Another cheap alternative is the $9.90 French Thompson 6080WA from Parts Connexion... aqsw bought a pair...quite good review from the 6AS7G tube rolling thread.


 
  
 I will consider buying these tubes, I just lost both bets. French Thompson is a very sexy looking tube 
  
 I found this list on BHC thread, it was posted in the old Elise thread as well. Can I rely on the list?
  
 Looks like I was aiming at the Tier-3 tubes, Chatham 6AS7G  I should gear up for something else, this list might drain my banks!!!
  
 THE LIST
 I.a) GEC Curved Brown Base 6AS7G A1834 CV2523
 I.b) Western Electric 421A
 I.c) GEC Straight Brown Base 6AS7G A1834 CV2523

 II.a.i) Tung Sol 5998
 II.a.ii) Tung Sol 421A
 II.a.iii) Cetron/Tung Sol 7236
 II.b.i) Bendix 6080WB with slotted graphite cross columns
 II.b.ii) Bendix 6080WB with solid graphite cross columns
 II.b.iii) Bendix 6080WB with solid graphite columns
 II.c) Bendix 6080WB
 II.d) Mullard (Telefunken/Valvo/GEC) 6080WA CV2984 
 II.e) Sylvania 7236

 III.a) Sylvania Gold Brand 6080
 III.b) Tung Sol Chatham 6AS7G
 III.c) RCA 6AS7G
 III.d) Tung Sol 6080 or 6080WA

 Tubes not included in this review:
 6H13/ECC230 (Various labels: Philips/Amperex/Svetlana/Winged-C)
 5998A
 6AS7GA
 Sylvania 6AS7G
 Any other 6080WA/WB/WC variant not listed


----------



## UntilThen

That's the list I showed on post #381.
  
 I don't buy a tube based on what tier it is. If it sounds good and don't send my bank manager into a tail spin I'll buy it. Reviews are good but you need to verify by sampling it yourself. The author does say YMMV. However I find most of what he said is true.
  
 Those in the higher tiers are hard to come by now and are very expensive. Even a decent 5998 cost about $100. With all your uncertainty I'd suggest buying a pair of cheaper power tubes to try it out. That Mullard 6080 is a safe bet.
  
 Also remember that review is done on the Crack which uses a single power tube. On the Elise you're using double...
  
 Seriously the Mullard is tier 2 on that list. What are you waiting for lol. You can see I don't really care too much about what tier but in this case I do agree the Mullard CV2984 is good.


----------



## UntilThen

Perhaps a nice picture might convince you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​
And Glowing ​


----------



## aqsw

I'm just waiting for my amp. I have the inexpensive Thompsons waiting. They look so nice.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Perhaps a nice picture might convince you.


 
         Must get more tubes !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello LR, sure:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-MULLARD-CV2984-6080-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-MATCHED-YEAR-1969-/121767434336




Not sure why he won't ship to Canada? I thought we were one of the easier countries to ship to.
Maybe he's angry because I told him soccer sucks,but football is great! (JUST KIDDING)


----------



## UntilThen

LOL Mike you never fail to make me laugh.


----------



## MIKELAP

aqsw said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > Hello LR, sure:
> ...


 
 Langrex ships to Canada bought a few times from them usually get order in 7-8 bussiness days


----------



## Lord Raven

Nice try guys  LOL Looks like, I'll have to buy everything, then sort out the **** out of the lot till I go deaf 
  
 Quote:



untilthen said:


> Perhaps a nice picture might convince you.


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> ​ And Glowing ​


 
  
  


mikelap said:


> Must get more tubes !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Not sure why he won't ship to Canada? I thought we were one of the easier countries to ship to.


 

 If you bend my arms hard enough I might send them to you for double the price.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> If you bend my arms hard enough I might send them to you for double the price.



i




untilthen said:


> If you bend my arms hard enough I might send them to you for double the price.




Are you selling them?


----------



## UntilThen

No. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm a collector.
  
 I bought them really cheap AUD$79 which is about US$58 a pair.


----------



## Lord Raven

Just bought my ECC31/6SN7 adapters LOL Enough tube hunting for today, the Elise does sound awesome even in stock condition. Thought of the night 
  
 Goodnight for now..
  
 PS Let see if adapters reach first or the ECC31 tubes!


----------



## UntilThen

Wait you didn't get the 6N7G or 6N7? Oh man they sound so good now !!! They use the same adapters as the ECC31 btw.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Wait you didn't get the 6N7G or 6N7? Oh man they sound so good now !!! They use the same adapters as the ECC31 btw.


 
 What? I did not get it???


----------



## UntilThen

Try a pair of 6N7G or 6N7 tubes besides the ECC31 you already bought. It's cheap and you'll be surprised.


----------



## aqsw

You guys heard Paverrati , the duets. Wow, first album I'm trying when I get my amp. Not an opera fan, but his duets with Sting and Clapton are phenominal. . And this is on my minion HA1


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> No.    I'm a collector.
> 
> I bought them really cheap AUD$79 which is about US$58 a pair.



Fair enough, Im sure I can bend your arm, but I don't want to pay 2x.


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> Just bought my ECC31/6SN7 adapters LOL Enough tube hunting for today, the Elise does sound awesome even in stock condition. Thought of the night
> 
> Goodnight for now..
> 
> PS Let see if adapters reach first or the ECC31 tubes!




When did u get your amp Raven?


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> You guys heard Paverrati , the duets. Wow, first album I'm trying when I get my amp. Not an opera fan, but his duets with Sting and Clapton are phenominal. . And this is on my minion HA1




I don't have them, but will check them out next time I get near my Tidal subscription. 

Thanks for the recommendations, always looking for great stuff that is "new to me"....

--JV--


----------



## UntilThen

I love Pavarotti. Even the 3 tenors. I will be spinning it afterwards.


----------



## mordy

Hi folks,
  
 Have just reached the 48 hour mark burning in the French 6N7G Mazda. When I first turned on the  Elise to try these tubes, one tube sounded TERRIBLE. Distorted, weak, horrible - like when a radio station is off tune on the dial.
  
 All kinds of thoughts swirled through my mind - can I get a refund? This seller was not through eBay and no guarantees. Well, I used American Express; could always complain there. Then I remembered what a number of people have said about new tubes humming and making noise - BE PATIENT - WAIT, and the hum and noise may go away.
  
 So I waited (impatiently), and everything went away after some 30-40 minutes. Both tubes sound just fine now. Well, I take that back - they sound scrumptious, phontastic. These words are not necessary hi fi speak or in the dictionary, but it means sonically delicious. The combination of the Elise and these tubes bring out the beauty and emotional impact of the music. Beguiling.....Can't stop listening.
  
 The bass appeared as well. Reminded me of my old 5' audiophile megabuck tower speakers with 15" woofers that I sold - really strong bass, going deep and with impact. My listening room is around 10'x10'. Why is it that the bass is stronger when I stand outside of my room?
  
 The sound stage is the best I have ever had - wide with holographic extension and completely coherent. It's not music right, left and center ; it's one wall of sound. Everything sounds right with the right balance of everything. I find myself playing louder than usual. Old, familiar recording sound new.
  
 As JV says, these tubes bring joy.


----------



## UntilThen

I guarantee the price of 6N7G will double by tomorrow.

Isn't it a coincidence we both said...'wall of sound'. See my post on #393 where I said big wall of sound.


----------



## mordy

There is a Russian equivalent of the 6N7GT tube called 6N7S. These are plentiful and inexpensive. Does anybody have experience with them?


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I think those are Fotons. I have a pair here but hums badly. There's a lot of nice 6N7GT on eBay. Have to look at it tonight. Excited 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Omg someone bought the pair of Rapsco 6N7GT that I wanted.
  
 Oh no it's there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 But these RCAs look so good tho
  

  
 Ok bought the pair of RCA 6N7GT


----------



## aqsw

Leonard Cohen, is a must on a tube amp. 
I always remeber him saying " only in canada can a voice like mine get male vocalist of the year"


----------



## aqsw

Holy Mother with Clapton is the best on the pav duets album.
and Let it rain with jonbonjovi


----------



## UntilThen

Glad you like Leonard. You should be being a Canadian.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Glad you like Leonard. You should be being a Canadian.




He's a hidden treasure. , One of the best songwriters in the world. Has a strong following! I'm one of them.


----------



## UntilThen

I only know about Leonard through Jennifer Warnes's Famous Blue Raincoat album. She was singing all his songs. I've been a fan since then.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> You guys heard Paverrati , the duets. Wow, first album I'm trying when I get my amp. Not an opera fan, but his duets with Sting and Clapton are phenominal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes these 2 numbers have to be heard on a tube amp and through my hd650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just superb.
  
 Panis Angelicus - Pavarotti, Sting
 Holy Mother - Pavarotti, Eric Clapton


----------



## UntilThen

Isn't it interesting how we came upon the 6N7G. It all started with JV ordering a pair thinking he got the ECC31 but it turned out to be 6N7Gs. Thanks JV for that discovery, accidental or otherwise. We all know by now he refers to them as 'Joybringers'. I know there are variations with some European made and others like the one I'm testing Philco ...made in USA. However to date all I have heard are very favourable reports from JV on his Joybringers and GM 6N7Gs and Mordy who uses the Mazda version. Mikelap has very good impressions on these tubes also saying there are some similarities to the ECC31. Special mention also to Gibosi for confirming technical specifications for these tubes.
  
 I'm now pairing Chatham 6AS7G with Philco 6N7G on my DV because firstly I like how the Chatham sounded and secondly I think both tubes in coke bottles form look better aesthetically. Listening to the Shefield Lab Drum & Track Disc, it sounded just like a live drum sessions and I am familiar with live drum sessions. The 6N7G are not shy when it comes to pounding out the beats. You will get the thumps in your chest. You will feel the pounding. My next track is 'Spanish Harlem' by Rebecca Pidgeon. The 6N7G produce the rendition perfectly. Get a copy of this on CD and you'll know why it's a test track for vocals.
  
 I have to say we are on to something special here in these tubes:- 6N7G and 6N7. Both are impressive and will need a longer listening sessions for me to describe the differences between the 2. They are impressive especially so because besides sounding good they are also incredibly cheap. I have the RCA 6N7GT coming and will report on how it performs.


----------



## UntilThen

This is how it looks in all it's glory.


----------



## SearchOfSub

untilthen said:


> This is how it looks in all it's glory.




man those tubes look nice.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This is how it looks in all it's glory.




They do look beautiful together, UT!!! 

I can't wait hear the Rebecca Pidgeon album, via lossless files, thanks for another musical treat suggestion!

--JV--


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Have just reached the 48 hour mark burning in the French 6N7G Mazda. When I first turned on the  Elise to try these tubes, one tube sounded TERRIBLE. Distorted, weak, horrible - like when a radio station is off tune on the dial.
> 
> ...


 
 Then im glad i got a few pairs should be here by Thursday


----------



## Lord Raven

aqsw said:


> When did u get your amp Raven?


 
 I ordered Elise on 22-June-2015 and received it on 18-July-2015. Checked old emails for dates  This might help you stay patient hehe


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> The sound stage is the best I have ever had - wide with holographic extension and completely coherent. It's not music right, left and center ; it's one wall of sound. Everything sounds right with the right balance of everything. I find myself playing louder than usual. Old, familiar recording sound new.
> 
> As JV says, these tubes bring joy.




Hello Mordy, your description of the sound of these wonderful tubes, reminds me of my original post about them.

They bring you closer with an incredible sound stage illusion that is very convincing. I stated that I felt like I was in the band and the musicians were all around me.

I was part of the music making process, instead of an audience member.

Transported in space and time to the room and moments in which the music was bring created...

I emailed Lukasz that same impression, who said it had made his dad's day...

We are the lucky ones, us Elise owners 

Cheers!


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> Then im glad i got a few pairs should be here by Thursday


 
 Looks like you are the one finishing all the tubes on eBay  How many did you buy, curious!


----------



## Lord Raven

Mordy Bro,
  
 What power tubes are you running? You caught my attention  
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Have just reached the 48 hour mark burning in the French 6N7G Mazda. When I first turned on the  Elise to try these tubes, one tube sounded TERRIBLE. Distorted, weak, horrible - like when a radio station is off tune on the dial.
> 
> ...


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Have just reached the 48 hour mark burning in the French 6N7G Mazda. When I first turned on the  Elise to try these tubes, one tube sounded TERRIBLE. Distorted, weak, horrible - like when a radio station is off tune on the dial.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Mordly i got once a tube like this that was sounding distorded like listening through a guitar amplifier.. And once very hot, it was like a miracle the sound changed and this tube was never crapy again.... it is a RCA 5963 long gray plates. The tube is not balanced and have one triode stronger than the other for this i do not use it anymore on the CTH.
  
 For now, can i suggest you to listen No Ties by Chet Baker live at Le Dreher 1980... You will have plenty of details to discover,


----------



## JazzVinyl

​

Working in the method to deliver 12 volts externally to (2) FDD20's. I don't mind being able to "see the wires" compared to what will be heard ​

My one FDD20 is surpassing 100 hours. It continues to sound better and better...can't wait to get a pair going.​

.


----------



## hpamdr

You should try to power it with 13V or at least 12.6V and verify how much power it drain using multimeter. (see ebay item 360525979205 for one that can power up to 4 FDD-20). You will have to ground the minus if you have some buzzz


jazzvinyl said:


> ​ Working in the method to deliver 12 volts externally to (2) FDD20's. I don't mind being able to "see the wires" compared to what will be heard ​ My one FDD20 is surpassing 100 hours. It continues to sound better and better...can't wait to get a pair going.​
> 
> .


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> ​ Working in the method to deliver 12 volts externally to (2) FDD20's. I don't mind being able to "see the wires" compared to what will be heard ​ My one FDD20 is surpassing 100 hours. It continues to sound better and better...can't wait to get a pair going.​
> 
> .


 
  
 Really good work, JV - well done!...next step, doing away with that bathtub socket, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I know you can do it!!).
  
 And of course, the million dollar question will be how you find the pair compared to the FDD20/ECC31 combo...but it's gonna mean a lot more hours of burn-in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I'm also really looking forward to how they compare to 2x 6N7Gs of yours...And then you'll need to get a second ECC31...and then...!!!   CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 On a different - but related - note...being the cad who pipped Suuup to the post with those ECC31s recently (but with the best intentions at heart for us Elise guys!), I just thought I'd repeat what was said a while ago about tubes with the centre locating spigot missing, and which often deters bidders, lol! It is actually so easy to find the pin positioning...in most cases it appears you can see - with glasses, if necessary! - an outline of the protrusion marking centre position...as per this photo  :
  

  
 Then you can mark it however you wish on the side of the base. If not as clear as this, a cheap multi-volt DC(1A in this case) adapter set to 7V or so (mine at 6V was giving out a good bit less than 6, and 7/7.5V won't harm just for a short testing period) will soon indicate which 2 pins are the heaters, with trial and error, and thus the orientation.
 This could just help secure the bid, lol!
  
 ps. Suuup...all is well - they'll soon be on their way to you!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> You should try to power it with 13V or at least 12.6V and verify how much power it drain using multimeter. (see ebay item 360525979205 for one that can power up to 4 FDD-20). You will have to ground the minus if you have some buzzz




Got it, thanks for this, hpmdr.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Really good work, JV - well done!...next step, doing away with that bathtub socket, lol!  :wink_face: (I know you can do it!!).
> 
> And of course, the million dollar question will be how you find the pair compared to the FDD20/ECC31 combo...but it's gonna mean a lot more hours of burn-in!  And I'm also really looking forward to how they compare to 2x 6N7Gs of yours...And then you'll need to get a second ECC31...and then...!!!   CHEERS!




Yes, in the long run, I will work on getting rid of the bath tub. But it will take time to work it all out.

In the mean time, since I have one good ECC31, if anyone spots a good working single ECC31 for a good price, please alert me 

Cheers to us, the lucky folk 
.


----------



## tjw321

A quick question for the Beyer T1 users: Has anyone managed to hear the gen 2s with the Elise yet? I've been saving like mad to get a pair of T1s and I'm wondering if some of the synergy with the Elise has gone with the new version of the T1s. TIA.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Here are answers to three questions that you did not ask (or aks as they say in New York):
  
 Some tube sellers will list the tested values of each triode in a dual triode tube. It may say 100%/100%, or for a much cheaper price for the same tube: 96%/64%. Oftentimes they will say that minimum good is say 50%.
  
 What happens in the Elise (that uses two tubes in series) if you use two imbalanced tubes (but with similar imbalance, for example 96%/64% and 94%/59%)?
 Answer: If the difference is small, you may not note anything. If there is a bigger difference, it may effect the spatial perception of the sound stage.
  
 Can you use driver tubes that draw more than 1A in the Elise, for example the 6BL7 tube that draws 1.5A?
 Answer: It may be possible to use 1.5A tubes but the temperature of the amp must be monitored to make sure that it does not overheat.
  
 Do you have to play music while you are burning in a tube?
 Answer: It does not seem necessary - you are just burning off excess whatever in the tube ("cooking"). (Burning in speakers and headphones requires music playing since there are mechanical movable components involved.)
  
 Your comments/corrections are invited - thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi folks and morning to all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With all the happy postings let me also chime in. Lukasz just email me that my Elise is ready to be shipped.
  
 Mordy it may not be necessary to play music while burning in a tube but I rather do that.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> A quick question for the Beyer T1 users: Has anyone managed to hear the gen 2s with the Elise yet? I've been saving like mad to get a pair of T1s and I'm wondering if some of the synergy with the Elise has gone with the new version of the T1s. TIA.


 

 I guess you'll be the 1st TJ. I too am very keen on the T1 g2 but it has to be next year for my birthday so says my better half. It's selling in Australia for a discounted price of AUD$999. I think Beyer sets the example where price is concern for TOTL. The original T1 might be worth considering too if the price is really good. At least I love the case which I can sit on.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> ​ Working in the method to deliver 12 volts externally to (2) FDD20's. I don't mind being able to "see the wires" compared to what will be heard ​ My one FDD20 is surpassing 100 hours. It continues to sound better and better...can't wait to get a pair going.​
> 
> .


 
 This is turning out really well JV. You're a very good DIYer. The bath tube even looks good now.  I'm amazed at the ingenuity on this thread.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Hi folks and morning to all.
> With all the happy postings let me also chime in. Lukasz just email me that my Elise is ready to be shipped.




Good morning, UT!!

A big congrats on the exciting news that your Elise is ready to be shipped!!

.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> I guess you'll be the 1st TJ. I too am very keen on the T1 g2 but it has to be next year for my birthday so says my better half. It's selling in Australia for a discounted price of AUD$999. I think Beyer sets the example where price is concern for TOTL. The original T1 might be worth considering too if the price is really good. At least I love the case which I can sit on.


 
 I'm not sure that I'll be the first - and that's my dilemma. Should I get a discounted gen 1 (which I can *almost* afford now), or save up longer for the gen 2? TBH, I really want the detachable cable so I'm leaning toward waiting a bit and getting the gen 2, plus I expect the gen 1s will be all gone before I can buy one.


----------



## UntilThen

I'd go for g2 because the subtle tuning that is done suits my taste just fine. A smoother treble, better mids and more impactful bass. Though I'll probably never change the cable I still like a detachable double sided cable. You know it's a good design when it has stand the test of time with the original being introduced since 2010. Similarly for HD800 that came out in 2009.


----------



## hpamdr

Normally, only the heater pins are connected together, with a millimeter (the one that buzz on short-circuit) you can find the heater pins (in most case 2pins) If you know the type of the tube, using datasheet you can number all the pin and drive your search. Once you identify all, you can draw a dot using white pen on the base in place of the spur,  you can also draw a line on the socket....
  
 When burning tube, I do not always play/listen music. I have some pink noise and single frequencies wav files I alternate. But definitely, I do not only the power the heater and wait for two days. Letting the tube being hot (from 10 to 30 minutes) without no sound make it ready to burn and play...
  
 .


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Hi folks and morning to all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrat UT, Yeppiiii and a lot of tube wait for her..


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Hpa. Yours should be anytime soon right? And perhaps Aqsw too.
  
 Yes I have quite a lot of tubes suddenly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 not to mention the adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I blame Mike for showing me his 4 boxes of tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes I have quite a lot of tubes suddenly :blink:  not to mention the adapters.   I blame Mike for showing me his 4 boxes of tubes.




It's gonna be BIG FUN at your house, soon UT!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes big fun indeed. I decided to do a photoshoot in case a bush fire consumed it all and I can tell the insurance people that I did have these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Touch wood no bush fire.
  
 Top row power tubes, middle row driver tubes, lowest row adapters and my most valuable chinese stock tubes.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Thanks Hpa. Yours should be anytime soon right? And perhaps Aqsw too.
> 
> Yes I have quite a lot of tubes suddenly
> 
> ...


 
 And i blame gibosi for being so curious lol. By the way i taught i would share this picture i took of a page i have at home from a 1943 Time Life magazine its a Bendix publicity


----------



## JazzVinyl

Great, Mike!!
Don't forget the "Mullard Truck"...



.


----------



## UntilThen

Having spend 2 days with the Chatham 6AS7G and Philco 6N7G, I switch back to Tung Sol 5998 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT and I can see it's not a case of better or worst but a variation. In all honesty I could live with any of these 2 combinations if stranded on an island.
  
 In fact I'll be so bold as to claim that I like all the tube rolling, swapping driver and power tubes combination in my inventory. Each time you pair a different tube you get a very subtle change, sometimes a lot. I really find tube rolling so fun as a result. I think everyone should try it for themselves.
  
 That is why I'm hesitant when I'm ask to give a recommendation on a pair of tubes to use. I think that is so limiting if you buy a nice tube amp and just force yourself to have one pair of tubes. That's my opinion. YMMV.
  
 Happy listening


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Having spend 2 days with the Chatham 6AS7G and Philco 6N7G, I switch back to Tung Sol 5998 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT and I can see it's not a case of better or worst but a variation. In all honesty I could live with any of these 2 combinations if stranded on an island.
> 
> In fact I'll be so bold as to claim that I like all the tube rolling, swapping driver and power tubes combination in my inventory. Each time you pair a different tube you get a very subtle change, sometimes a lot. I really find tube rolling so fun as a result. I think everyone should try it for themselves.
> 
> ...


 
 My feeling exactly .


----------



## UntilThen

I decided to be brave and do an extended listening session with the ECC31 and Chatham 6AS7G. This other ECC31 has no hum at all. I'm over the moon. No red balls of fire too.
 However it's a startling revelation when I discover how sonically similar the ECC31 is to the 6N7G. One tube is $100 and the other $15. Are you kidding me? Mind you I tested both NOS, They are both new and unused. If anything I thought the 6N7G is more forward but only just. Both certainly project you closer to the music. Incredibly sweet mid range, extended bass and a treble to die for.
  
 I shall say no more or ECC31 might sue me. Please take my evaluation with a grain of salt. YMMV. Famous words, different ears. different gears...
  

  
 I take my hat off to the Darkvoice 336se. Even though all my tubes are purchased in pairs for Elise, the DV has proved to be incredibly versatile. The DV is only US$260 and it's being equipped with expensive tubes and holding it's own. I will love this tube amp forever.
  
 Good lord I haven't even touch the C3gs or use any of these in pairs esp on Elise. I hope I will have the time when Elise arrives. It's joy unbounded.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Good lord I haven't even touch the C3gs or use any of these in pairs esp on Elise. I hope I will have the time when Elise arrives. It's joy unbounded.




Your going to dig the C3g too, a high quality tube. I listened to mine last night while working on the FDD20 wiring items 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's sonic treat:

Artist: Mickey Hart
Album: Global Drum Project

The whole album is good, with lots of percussion instruments, large and small, major and minor, to relish 

.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ haha I thought I was in Africa. Nevertheless very good. Sure gives the ECC31 a good workout !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mickey Hart was one of the two Grateful Dead drummers. I am not a Dead fan, but all of Mickey Hart's solo albums...are very good.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm having a blast going from ECC31 to 6N7G. They are so incredibly good sounding. By now I have already known Leonard Cohen song 'In my secret life' by hard. These tubes are holographic. I don't use this word. This is the first time for me. I have seen it use so many times it has lost it's meaning but now I'm using it. Put simply it is a 3 dimensional image of the holograph subject.
  
 6N7G seems more forward definitely and the toms and kick drums are slightly more impactful. I wonder why? I mean from the specs below the difference is minute. ECC31 though is very controlled like a very skilful conductor with the orchestra at it fingertips. ECC31 is worth all the hype showered upon it. Nevertheless as I said there's definitely similarities in the sound. Closer to the music !!!
  
 I think the specs has been shown before but I just have to dig it up again for ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 & 6A6
  
 ECC31 - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 1 Ampere
 6N7G   - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.8 Ampere
 FDD20 - Vf 13 Volts / If 0.35 Ampere
 6A6      - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.8 Ampere
  
 Gibosi has tested 6A6 I believe. It is the predecessor of 6N7G.
  
 Seeing how impressed I'm with the ECC31 and 6N7G, it is my mission to test out the other 2 all in good time. Btw all these 4 have similarities according to Radiomuseum and also shared by Gibosi and Hypnos1.
  
 Feel free to contribute. I'm but an eager learning Head-Fi er...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 WOW 'War of the Worlds' is a killer now. The Martians have really landed.


----------



## UntilThen

Does anyone's ECC31 hum badly when new? One of mine is. I wonder if that's normal? The other one is dead silent. I've been giving it a good dose of music for an hour but it still hums like a motor.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Yes big fun indeed. I decided to do a photoshoot in case a bush fire consumed it all and I can tell the insurance people that I did have these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 All that babe in your couch, i wish you plenty of joy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 About the electrical Tube spec, you missed some data like the amplification factor, the plate dissipation, the transconductance ... which depends on the voltage used... , To be precise you even have to mesure each particular tube with a tube analyser or with a curve tracer..
  
 But at the end of the day it is only when you have a big smile face when listening that gives your own tube value. 
  
 In this datasheet war, the FDD is an alien as you cannot really find any precise data.. And the Mullard ECC31 types with enhanced heater section 1A instead of .8A for normal 6N7 G/GT !


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks I'll be having fun indeed.
  
 I am not surprised if I miss any technical data. I'm not a technical person where tubes specs are concerned. Just thought I lay it out there for discussions. And as you rightly pointed out what matters most is how it sounds to our ears.
  
 I'm afraid one of my ECC31 is faulty. The hum is loud and doesn't go away. I have 14 days for return.


----------



## UntilThen

Some sellers are good sports and have a good sense of humour. This seller says he'll refund me but not to send him the faulty tube as he'll only be throwing it in the bin so I might as well throw it in my bin LOL. Well I thank him for being a good sport 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## UntilThen

Does anyone have a '*good' hum free and musical* ECC31 to sell? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking at Mike who has 4 pairs.
  
 Looks like it's a trend here.
  
 Another thing Don't buy the cheapest adapter. Mine, the tube doesn't sit level on it. It's like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Does anyone have a '*good' hum free and musical* ECC31 to sell?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wish but its more like 2 pairs one for backup unfortunately for you and i to had a misfortune with one pair from Italy not enough packing between the tubes one was cracked when it got here sent him a picture the next day guy sent me another one i was lucky he had another one so now its on display with other dead tubes .Little works of art !


----------



## Suuup

Second from left, is that an ECC31 Mike?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Here is a quote from your post:
  
_"However it's a startling revelation when I discover how sonically similar the ECC31 is to the 6N7G. One tube is $100 and the other $15. Are you kidding me? Mind you I tested both NOS, They are both new and unused. If anything I thought the 6N7G is more forward but only just. Both certainly project you closer to the music. Incredibly sweet mid range, extended bass and a treble to die for."_
  
 I have not heard heard the ECC31, but here I have confirmation of my suspicion that a good 6N7G sounds very similar to the ECC31. (Which 6N7G are you using?)
  
 At this time the Mazda 1948 pair I have has been used for some 70 hours and the bass and treble has improved markedly. These tubes are forward, vivid and very engaging, with a fantastic 3D sound stage that becomes a wall of sound. As JV puts it, they bring a lot of joy to listening.
  
 Possibly you could find more easily obtainable 6N7G tubes than the Mazdas that produce excellent results - awaiting other people's impressions. I have another very old pair Sylvania/Arcturus that also sound good but are very microphonic. They also don't have the bass and treble extension of the Mazda tubes.


----------



## Lord Raven

Why do you guys have to start talking about DOA tubes while my pair is in transit?  
  
 UT, this thread is going to another closure if you hint a bad thing about 31's. I also got the same adapters as yourself and Mike, I hope they are not like pica towers LOL
  
 I am guessing, if my tubes arrive earlier than the adapters then I will not be able to test them within the test/return period :O Adapters from China are like coming by the camel delivery service.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Why do you guys have to start talking about DOA tubes while my pair is in transit?
> 
> UT, this thread is going to another closure if you hint a bad thing about 31's. I also got the same adapters as yourself and Mike, I hope they are not like pica towers LOL
> 
> I am guessing, if my tubes arrive earlier than the adapters then I will not be able to test them within the test/return period :O Adapters from China are like coming by the camel delivery service.


 
 I'm waiting for mine too, got some ECC31's coming my way also. Wanna race?


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you guys have to start talking about DOA tubes while my pair is in transit?
> ...


----------



## hpamdr

I did also get some 6N7 GT and the tube will probably be at home before the Elise. I will try to soldier my adapter myself in the meantime i already got some octal socket and base...
  
 If someone did it already can you share some usefull tips...


----------



## Lord Raven

with ECC31's, Yes. Adapters, No. They're probably never coming here, I have lost shipments without tracking, courier services are poor in this country :/
  
 Can a tube be faulty on arrival even if it was posted as a good testing tube? What to do in that case?
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> I'm waiting for mine too, got some ECC31's coming my way also. Wanna race?


----------



## Lord Raven

Mike, looks like I slept right before the finish line 
  
 Quote:


mikelap said:


>


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> Mike, looks like I slept right before the finish line
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry but that's the Starting line lol .Doesnt look like it but your delivery guys  are  actually warming up lol


----------



## mordy




----------



## hpamdr

I just hope those snail do not come to France ....


----------



## Lord Raven

Haha guys I love comics  Right now I am struggling with the difference of sound with the Elise and the Geek Pulse's on board 3000mW amplifier (I previously misquoted it to be 2000mW). 
  
 I have a question, DAC is connected to Elise via RCA. LH Labs suggests to keep the DAC volumes at the top level which is -0.0db while using RCA. This way I use volume from the Elise which is normally at 8 - 9 O' clock for my comfortable listening.
  
 While testing, I switch back and forth from Elise to the DAC/Amp and every time I do that I have to struggle to adjust the same volume levels from the DAC/Amp. I think I will never be able to get this right.
  
 After one week of listening, I can say that both Elise (Winged C, Russian 6SN7 GTB) and DAC/Amp are almost similar sounding. When I plug into Elise, I can feel the layers of instruments, the sound stage appears and the impact of bass with detail in the highs. When I switch to DAC/Amp, the gap for adjusting the volume to the same level clears the perception of things and it's like my mind is reset. But the things are slightly different, in a better way though. The impact is bigger and the bass is strong and clear and hence perception of depth is obvious, detail is clear and I can hear micro detail like whispers and moaning and the presence. I am just lost!
  
 Maybe I should start comparing these two by taking notes, otherwise keeping things in mind and struggling with the equipment would take me forever to decide about their sound. How do you guys review tubes? I think this will be even harder for me to tell the difference between tubes


----------



## mordy

Just keep listening and take your time - it may take a couple of days sometimes to figure out the differences.
  
 The best thing is to use a familiar good sounding recording and compare it. I have to admit that critical listening is tiring, and many times I switch off my analytical mode and just enjoy the music.
  
 Sometimes something bothers you, and you can't put your finger on it, but by time it becomes clarified. Another difficulty is that you cannot switch tubes instantly since the amp needs to discharge before starting up again.
  
 Tried to compare tubes by putting in different tubes in each channel and moving the balance control left/right while playing a monophonic recording. This does not work well, because there is a synergy between the two channels that is lost (unless the tubes are very similar sounding).
  
 And as you mentioned, the volume has to be the same - louder sounds better many times.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Here is a quote from your post:
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Mordy, I'm using Philco 6N7G from USA. I've a picture of it in this thread somewhere. If you read my impressions, we both have the same conclusions. As I said the bass is even more impactful than the ECC31 but only by a slight amount. ECC31 though seems more linear to me. It has a smoother presentation.
  
 Like I say they both sound great to me. For the price difference it's a no brainer on the Philco 6N7G. I really believe this applies too for the other GM, Delco brands out there.
  
 I also said that the 6N7 surprise me. They sounded just as good to me. A bit leaner but engaging and nice. I have a pair of RCA 6N7GT coming to complete my evaluation of the 6N7 series. I certainly don't plan on evaluating all the various brands of 6N7G out there.


----------



## UntilThen

You guys are jokers. I love those snails cartoons. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks Mike. I was joking about pinching your ECC31. I'm sharing about the problematic ECC31 so we all are aware that there is no guarantee on NOS tube. Whilst seller do their usual testing they certainly don't test it in a tube amp. This defective one is humming loudly at 9oclock on the volume dial with music playing. It's still doing that after several hours of non stop playing. Sad thing is the seller has sold out all his stock of ECC31 because I have been putting his link here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is fine as long as you guys benefit. I really do have to commend the seller for his attitude. He refunded with no fuss immediately. I can recommend him anytime except he hasn't got any ECC31 left.
  
 Anyway I certainly believe you'll have better luck than me. Enjoy !!!
  
 So I'll be looking for another good ECC31 and also now's the time to try out the FDD20 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to JV who has offered to help me. I would electrocute myself if I do it on my own.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


>


 
 Raven regarding your question on a good testing tube that arrive dead on arrival, you can get a refund ..no questions asked. eBay is good in this respect. You'll be looked after. Most good sellers will believe you too and refund promptly. That has been my experience with buying from eBay. Buy with confidence.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 And now for the first time in the Western World and Eastern World, and Down Under: {Lukasz, are you there?]
  
_The Mighty Mouse That Roared AKA Sylvania 6832/Raytheon 7962:_
  




 Raytheon in the open box, Sylvania on the right
  
  
 Shown in size comparison to a 6AS7 type tube:
  




  
 So what is this? It is a cold war era sub miniature vacuum tube intended for use in intercontinental ballistic missiles. It has all kinds of fancy specs - it can withstand 100G or more - you don't have to worry if you drop it. It is related to the 6SN7 tube and has 8 leads.
  
 Looks like a missile:
  




  
 Here it does a light buoy imitation:
  




  
 Some people think that this tube sounds great and that it was the pinnacle of vacuum tube development. So how does it sound in Elise? Let's find out:
  




  
 Notice the solderless construction. A close-up:
  




  
 What IS this?? Two different tubes?! Perish the thought!
  
 There are two schools of thought:
 1) Thou shalt not mix tubes
 2) Thou may mix tubes if they are similar
  
 Of course, both schools of thought are right. So I did the right thing and put in two different tubes. After all, they are almost the same size, the Syl (green print) being a little bigger than the Ray. (Had one each with the adapter prepared from my Little Dot days.)
  
 Turned on the Elise, ready with the shut off trigger finger if something is about to blow up. The tubes light up, accompanied by the driver tubes. We welcome the exact mate to the one GE 6AS7GA that I had before - the new one has the identical date and copper rod. This tube and the nice adapters arrived today in the mail. (The quick boat from China took 14 days)
  
 Everything is fine, everything works. Left channel: check. Right channel: check. Turn up the volume - switch my brain from trepidation to analytical listening mode.
  
 Not bad at all. The Elise makes everything sound good. OK, lets listen...
  
 Truth is that these tubes sound very good with amazing bass. Seems that the Syl has better bass than the Ray. The mid range is great and sweet, very good detail. Nice sound stage, more laid back than the 6N7G.  Looks like I have to cobble together another adapter for a second Sylvania 7963...
  
 These tubes have a lot in common with the 6N7G tubes.
  
 And so our adventure into tube rolling land has to continue with a pair of Sylvania 7963. Stay tuned....
  
 Have fun!


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha this has to win the award for ingenuity. Those tubes look like jelly fish. I have those adapters too. Nice work Mordy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy the Mad Scientist!

I see your two fans in there, Mordy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's Sonic Treat:

Song: The Ebor Sound System.
Artist: Acoustic Alchemy
Album: Roseland

Many fine details and a superb recording...


----------



## UntilThen

*6N7 vs 6N7G vs ECC31*
  
 I thought I'll post these impressions while they are still fresh on my mind.
  
 First just a quick recap regarding ECC31 vs 6N7G. Firstly I find the 6N7G more forward. Secondly I find the 6N7G sounded louder maybe because the toms and kick drums are hitting harder.
  
 Switching to 6N7G from 6N7, immediately the sound is fuller. Essentially that is the main difference between 6N7 and 6N7G with the former sounding leaner, tighter and less upper and lower bass slam. Mid range is leaner too. It is less bloom if I may say so. Ultimately I prefer the 6N7G.
  
 However now that my ECC31 is more burn in and I've a longer listening sessions I prefer it over the other 2. ECC31 appears to me more linear across the frequency spectrum. It has one of the sweetest mid range I've heard and I love mid range (vocals) more than anything.
  
 Again these are my impressions. YMMV. Listening sessions on a Darkvoice 336se with HD650 with NAD D1050 as Dac using ALAC files. Power tube used is Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> And now for the first time in the Western World and Eastern World, and Down Under: {Lukasz, are you there?]
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordi, you can also use Rusian 6N16B-V and it would be a real war even mixing a Sylvania on the West and at the East  a Melz or an ORZJEP.


 This is my christmass tree version of the adapter, i even have worse with two tube in // 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Yes, there are two fans salvaged from broken PCs and PSs. One is 3" and the 4". They were mainly chosen for quietness. My retired engineering friend told me to positions the fans so that they don't blow on the amp but instead draw away the air from the amp. In order to facilitate this i put the Elise on three aluminum 1" aluminum cones (footers) attached with blue tack.
  
 The Elise has ample ventilation holes underneath to facility convection cooling and many times I don't need the fans at all. Another useful thing in cooling the chassis is to use octal socket extenders which act as insulators to the heat from the tubes.
  
 Hpmdr:
  
 Now back to the sub miniature tubes: On the Little Dot thread we explored them and I think Gibosi  as well as some other people tried a couple of Russian variants. The conclusion was that the Sylvania 7963 sounded the best if I remember correctly.
  
 If you want to try these little  Raytheon 6832 beauties there is a seller on eBay that will sell a pair for $6.95 shipped. (No availability of the 7963 at the present).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-Jan-6832-Submini-dual-Triode-Matched-Pair-Excellent-NOS-tubes-/271171966719?hash=item3f231bd6ffm0E4cmas7PsXCYmZE0n0Vww
  
 Soundstage: With the two different tubes in the driver's seat I noticed that the car was pulling to the right. Or in tube amp speak: The soundstage was dominated by the Sylvania tube, extending to a 2/3 of the space between the speakers. No matter how I tried to adjust the balance control I could not get it to be even - all or nothing, meaning either I had to listen to one channel only, or have the Syl domineer the soundstage.
  
 Gave up and put in a second Raytheon that already was connected to an adapter. What a revelation!
  
 The sound stage became very wide and balanced. Fantastic instrument separation. Width, height and depth. For the first time i felt as if the sound stage extended forward towards me - creepy.
  
 Overall it is a more laid back presentation than the 6N7G and the midrange is not as sweet. The mid bass is great. Need to experiment with different power tube combinations.
  
 Look, for less than $7 it is worth the experience. If somebody tries these tubes, please let me know how they sound to you. If you don't like to solder (like me) I can tell you how to connect the tube.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Yes, there are two fans salvaged from broken PCs and PSs. One is 3" and the 4". They were mainly chosen for quietness. My retired engineering friend told me to positions the fans so that they don't blow on the amp but instead draw away the air from the amp. In order to facilitate this i put the Elise on three aluminum 1" aluminum cones (footers) attached with blue tack.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...nice to see you bringing some LD work over here, lol!
 And interesting to hear your results with these mini-wonders. Look forward to extended listening session results...plus a comparison to the C3g, lol!


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Suffering from Audiophilia Nervosa - tried to set up the Sylvania in the adapters, but the wires are thinner than the Raytheon sub mini tubes, and I can't get good contact. Don't like soldering, but that may be the only choice. Any ideas how to easily put them into 9pin socket savers?
  
 Meanwhile I exploring the past. This is what is driving the Elise now:
  




  
 This is a pair of Voskhod 6N23P tubes from August 1974. They belong in the 6DJ8 family and have a good reputation.
  
 How do they sound? The Critical Listening Dept is on vacation (stress related). Suffice to say that they are very nice and sound good. EVERYTHING sounds good in the Elise. But we are not looking for good sound, not even great sound, but MAGICAL sound.
  
 Paid $4 each for these including shipping in a lot of four a couple years ago. Prices have not changed that much, saw today 4 tubes for $20 incl. shipping. Or you could pay $299.00 + shipping for one Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist - your choice.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ I have a pair of those 6N23P 1975 and they sounded great in my DV. Highly recommended. I bought a pair to try out in Elise. With adapters of course.
  
 However right now I'm finding magic in the ECC31 and 6N7G...they are just that good.
  
 Just tried the 6N23P again and yes it's really very good. I'm really impressed.


----------



## MIKELAP

Got my 6N7G  Mazda.s  today very nice sound what i notice is a very wide soundstage and treble extension thats with the Senns HD 800 and WA22 with Chatham 6AS7G and 5V4G rectifier . A very good deal for the money. .Happy,Happy.


----------



## UntilThen

Mike any noticeable difference with your other 6N7G? I know it's new but do you hear anything diff?


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Mike any noticeable difference with your other 6N7G? I know it's new but do you hear anything diff?


 
 Ill check them  out again these are the only 6n7g i have i also have the steel version and the GT greyglass .


----------



## UntilThen

*FINALLY *after 20 years...I mean 2 months, I get a tracking number from Lukasz and it's in Polish !!!
 Ordered on the 21st Aug and it's 21st Oct today.
  
 Ah I can change it to English. Happiness. Interesting it went through a few Post Offices in Poland. Says package weight is 0.3 kg? I have a portable Elise I think.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> *FINALLY *after 20 years...I mean 2 months, I get a tracking number from Lukasz and it's in Polish !!!
> Ordered on the 21st Aug and it's 21st Oct today.
> 
> Ah I can change it to English. Happiness. Interesting it went through a few Post Offices in Poland. Says package weight is 0.3 kg? I have a portable Elise I think.


 

 Not at all UT, every week for the next year you will receive a small part to mount. You will get the sockets and the owner manual this time.


----------



## UntilThen

LMAO...you mean I'm only getting the manual this time?


----------



## hpamdr

mikelap said:


> Got my 6N7G  Mazda.s  today very nice sound what i notice is a very wide soundstage and treble extension thats with the Senns HD 800 and WA22 with Chatham 6AS7G and 5V4G rectifier . A very good deal for the money. .Happy,Happy.


 
 Hi Mike,
  
 Oskari pointed out that it could have been built by another manufacturer showing some visseaux tubes. I did get some 6N7GT visseaux in strait bottle, they are very similar, the botom getter is exactly the same.
  
 I did even found some pictures.

  
  
  
 The Visseaux are known to be verry good tube (at least in France) built like a tank and with very detailed sound after long burning...
 I will keep you inforned howw they sound once I can plug it on the Elise !


----------



## JazzVinyl

For those interested in externally heating a 12v tube...and experience a hum problem, remember that Elise herself is very well grounded. A short wire from the negative external heat, to anywhere on the Elise chassis, will eliminate the hum.



​
.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​

Can you guess who is glowing?​


.


----------



## mordy

What's glowing? A vacuum tube of course! (Your second FDD20 with the paint scratched off)


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> What's glowing? A vacuum tube of course! (Your second FDD20 with the paint scratched off)




Nope...not an FDD20...

.


----------



## mordy

At least I got the first half of the answer right LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> At least I got the first half of the answer right LOL






Yes, you did


----------



## UntilThen

ECC31 without the hum


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> ECC31 without the hum




LOL...correct.

The ECC31 glow is truly....not much. 
Sounds great, but does not provide much in the way of fireworks...

Kind of like the C3g in that regard.

.

.


----------



## mordy

Listened to the Russian 6N23P - quite nice. But not IT.
  
Dept of Unsung Heroes:
  
 Enter the neglected 6BC8 tube (aka 6BC8A aka 6BZ8 aka X155). Threw in 2 tubes - one a Coronado. Don't know what brand it is: Raytheon? Sylvania?
 The letters ADCD appear on the tube - don't know why I thought that meant June 1964 according to my notes.
  
 The second tube is a Sylvania with the code J 5 E and the lettering Star (something) TV. (October 1965?)
  
 After a 50 year sleep the Coronado wakes up with a growl - loud humming. The Syl is quiet. Nothing like experience, man. patience - take it easy - shut off the speakers and let it cook a little. Maybe the hum will go away - did not protest in the Little Dot.
  
 Yep, after two minutes the hum is gone. Phew!
  
 Ahem, with all apologies to the esteemed 6N23P; these tubes are better sounding in the Elise to me. Sweet, musical, good sound stage, good treble and bass.
 And best of all, these are truly bargain basement tubes. Available on eBay by many sellers today for less than $10/pair, maybe including shipping as well.
  
 Tube rolling overload - taking a break from adapting the spindly wires from the sub mini Sylvania for use in the Elise.
  
 PS: These tubes sound really very nice. Everything sounds good in the Elise, but these sound gooder as my my grandchildren say.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> PS: These tubes sound really very nice. Everything sounds good in the Elise, but these sound gooder as my my grandchildren say.




The Elise does seem a lot more accommodating to tube combinations than the Little Dot's.....

Gooder, is more better, I'd say 

I am listening to 5998/Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes, and have to say...a mighty mighty smooth, and beautiful tube combo in the Elise. Totally engaging and immersive. 

We are the LUCKY ones!!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

So you think Elise can cure hum? Maybe there's hope for my humming ECC31. It's still humming after 4 hours of rock and roll.


----------



## mordy

I don't think that the Elise can cure hum in a tube per se, but the cooking process of burning in tubes may rectify the hum.
  
 Just now I changed power tubes in the Elise, trying out the excellent 6BC8 tubes. The same tube that had a loud hum in the beginning, which disappeared after 2 minutes, did the same naughty thing again. And again it went away - something new to me.
  
 I am curious if the power tubes I use (6AS7GA) contribute to the wonderful and clear sound stage that I have. Tomorrow is another day....


----------



## hpamdr

If the Elise sublimate driver tubes with 6AS7GA, that means that we can enjoy a lot even not so expensive combo...
  
 I did prepared future listening session getting a pair of GE-6AS7GA White label from 75-03 but did not notice any copper rod.
  
 Does all of you have copper rod 6AS7GA or more regular one form the 70/80s (Black plate,  top O Getter ).
 I also got as a gift (probably because it in unbalanced) a single GE6AS7GA  red Label form 63 without copper rod when I bought a pair of used KenRad VT-231.
  
 I've seen the 6AS7G thread but do not really find if it is a night and day difference between all the 6AS7GA versions and does the Elise enhance or balance the differences.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's your nickel back. ECC31 will show you she can rock too.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I give up bidding for these because I know it will exceed US$500 a pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 Maybe next time.


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> If the Elise sublimate driver tubes with 6AS7GA, that means that we can enjoy a lot even not so expensive combo...
> 
> I did prepared future listening session getting a pair of GE-6AS7GA White label from 75-03 but did not notice any copper rod.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mordy sure is happy with his ones....copper rods, I believe. I'm beginning to suspect that there could well be a close relationship between tubes with said rods and slightly (or _more_ than slightly, lol!) better performance?...Personal observations, anyone??...
  


mikelap said:


> Got my 6N7G  Mazda.s  today very nice sound what i notice is a very wide soundstage and treble extension thats with the Senns HD 800 and WA22 with Chatham 6AS7G and 5V4G rectifier . A very good deal for the money. .Happy,Happy.


 
  
 Hey MIKELAP...this is great news - and not just for us Elise owners, it would appear. The 6N7G family is indeed proving to be an extremely good - and especially for the money! - tube.
  
 Now we need to try and have some more intrepid guys (where's the dolls, lol?!!) testing out _all_ possible versions...any takers?...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


jazzvinyl said:


> For those interested in externally heating a 12v tube...and experience a hum problem, remember that Elise herself is very well grounded. A short wire from the negative external heat, to anywhere on the Elise chassis, will eliminate the hum.
> 
> ​
> .


 
  
 That's good news, JV...must admit it didn't really want to play ball 100% with me - perhaps I just didn't find the right spot, lol!!
  
 But as I installed an in-line switch to the laptop charger I use as PS - and all hidden away behind the rack - I made the link around here, rather than at the tube itself...
  


jazzvinyl said:


> ​   Can you guess who is glowing?​
> 
> 
> .


 
  
 Easy one, JV...*YOU!!!*  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





untilthen said:


> Ok I give up bidding for these because I know it will exceed US$500 a pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I feel your pain, UT...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but heed mordy's words - _patience, patience, patience..._For these babies however, I myself would add - _*luck, luck,*_ and more* luck!!!*  You must study VERY carefully their construction and overall _smell!_, and then scour tube lots for such gems hidden amongst the pile...without the labels on, perhaps.
  
 I remember one unbelievably lucky guy (or was it gal?!) over at the 'for 6AS7G rollers here' thread a long while ago, who found a pair labelled Haltron (or was it Hytron) - and I suspect most thought it a Russian -  when in fact it was a lovely pair of GECs...lucky (and well spotted) or what??!!
  
 So such things _can_ happen, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....and better luck next time...


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Ok I give up bidding for these because I know it will exceed US$500 a pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The whole planet knows about these by now , and they dont test that great either 60 and minimum is 50 other pair  is worst .


----------



## MIKELAP

Was looking for 6n7 type tubes and found this site in Taiwan he has the Visseaux 6N7GT top part is same as the Mazda 6N7G we got our hand on but price is not  $32.95USD each .                                           http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_45&products_id=1119


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> That's good news, JV...must admit it didn't really want to play ball 100% with me - perhaps I just didn't find the right spot, lol!!
> But as I installed an in-line switch to the laptop charger I use as PS - and all hidden away behind the rack - I made the link around here, rather than at the tube itself...




Yours, is an even better solution, H1...
My 12v source is sealed, can't get in, to ground it, there. Think nephilim said his 12v source was already grounded, he had no hum problems, which is ideal 

.


----------



## hpamdr

mikelap said:


> Was looking for 6n7 type tubes and found this site in Taiwan he has the Visseaux 6N7GT top part is same as the Mazda 6N7G we got our hand on but price is not  $32.95USD each .                                           http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_45&products_id=1119


 
 Hi Mike, you catched my picture sources  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In the meantime, i did not find any mazda 6N7G left when i was looking for some. I did purchased the Visseaux in France for 15€ each and was not able to find  a better deal.


----------



## MIKELAP

hpamdr said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Was looking for 6n7 type tubes and found this site in Taiwan he has the Visseaux 6N7GT top part is same as the Mazda 6N7G we got our hand on but price is not  $32.95USD each .                                           http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_45&products_id=1119
> ...


 
 Ok i just noticed lol. Thats not bad 15Euro are those the 6N7G or GT do you have a link .Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Hpa got the Visseaux 6N7GT. He showed me the link but I didn't buy it as I've already bought a new pair of RCA 6N7GT. The last pair of Visseaux 6N7GT is gone now.


----------



## hpamdr

mikelap said:


> Ok i just noticed lol. Thats not bad 15Euro are those the 6N7G or GT do you have a link .Thanks.


 

 PM Sent, but sold out.
 Look to military radio collectors, they do not care that much to the same tube as we are addicted and for sure not addicted to brand, year,....


----------



## UntilThen

Tempted to try Mazda 6N7G. I know my Philco 6N7G sounds good but I'll never know how they compare. Anyone made any comparison between the Madza (which btw looks like the Visseaux in construction) and those 6N7G made in usa version?


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Hpa got the Visseaux 6N7GT. He showed me the link but I didn't buy it as I've already bought a new pair of RCA 6N7GT. The last pair of Visseaux 6N7GT is gone now.


 

 Did another offer for the quad as you were not interested and was not able to find any mazda.....
 For now I'm listening POLICE - Message in a Bottle with the Visseaux 6SN7GT I got on this lot (the alone one at the right).

  
 It has T plate style like Sylvania, but the same getter as the 6N7GT.  No Hum, Balanced, deep bass, for now it is burning i will let her some time to seduce me


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice Hpa. I'm sure those Visseaux 6N7GT will sound very nice. Waiting for your impressions on Elise when you get it.
  
 As for me I just bought a last remaining pair of Mazda 6N7G. I needed to know how they compare to the Philco 6N7G. From the glowing review in the link that Mikelap provided I just have to try it. That review is for a Visseaux 6N7G. I examine the Mazda photos provided by Mike, the Visseaux and Mazda looks identical.
  
 Review in this link:-  http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1119
  
 Now I'll take a breather from buying tubes and hope Elise make it through the oceans.


----------



## mordy

Cannot post - what happened?


----------



## mordy

Posted a long post but it just disappeared. In addition the toolbar for posting disappeared - spellchecker, adding pictures etc. How do I get it back?


----------



## UntilThen

Mine is ok. Did you renew your subscription to Head-Fi? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Reboot your PC and try again.


----------



## UntilThen

Ooooo I just bought a replacement ECC31 from a German seller and he wrote me a beautiful email. Said he tested the tube again just before sending it out and it's perfect and that I have one month to return and get refund and a 3 months guarantee.
  
 Now that's what I call a good seller. This is the first time a seller wrote to me personally and even assure me that it will be beautifully packaged and delivered to me safely.
  
 How do you say 'Thank You very much' in German?
  
 Oh he has a Master in Engineering. Maybe he makes tube amps too.


----------



## nephilim

Thank you very much would be "Herzlichen Dank" (the warmer version of "Vielen Dank").
  
 My 12V supply has the same three-pin connector as the Elise.
  
 I was about to post the link to the expensive pair of Mazda 6N7GT from that italian seller but somebody has just bought it - and it wasn't me 
  
 EDIT: Here it is: http://r.ebay.com/AbnBxC So, who got it?


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha Nep. Didn't I say in a few post up that I just got the Mazda 6N7G. Mordy and Mike tested it and sing praises about it so I have to test it for myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Herzlichen Dank !!!


----------



## nephilim

Aha!  I didn't buy them because of the shipping cost - which was just too high from Italy to Germany - and which was not negotiable. To your side of the world it's a bargain.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> .... Now that's what I call a good seller. This is the first time a seller wrote to me personally and even assure me that it will be beautifully packaged and delivered to me safely.
> 
> How do you say 'Thank You very much' in German?
> 
> Oh he has a Master in Engineering. Maybe he makes tube amps too.


 
 This is German Customer service....


----------



## nephilim

What about these 6N7GT: http://r.ebay.com/cMRyM3
  
 Would you recommend them? Maybe too expensive?


----------



## UntilThen

Those look nice and 1953 vintage (JAN as well). I got this pair and cheaper but I'm not sure it's the same vintage although the top construction looks the same to me and same smoke glass. Mine says guitar vacuum tubes. I hope they sound musical too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261548405033?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## hpamdr

nephilim said:


> What about these 6N7GT: http://r.ebay.com/cMRyM3
> 
> Would you recommend them? Maybe too expensive?


 

 You should negociate those ones.... http://www.ebay.it/itm/252132418316


----------



## nephilim

Whoa - that's the starting bid? I thought it was the buy-it now price


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> You should negociate those ones.... http://www.ebay.it/itm/252132418316


 

 Nep these are yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I believe these are JV's Joybringers. JV can you confirm?


----------



## aqsw

I"m #3 on the cue now. Still a couple weeks away. Darn, I was hoping it would arrive when when the wife is away on her yearly Newfoundland trip. Wouldn't have to explain much then!!


----------



## nephilim

A few months ago one of them was offered for 25% of the price of that pair (and the seller had about 20 in stock).


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I"m #3 on the cue now. Still a couple weeks away. Darn, I was hoping it would arrive when when the wife is away on her yearly Newfoundland trip. Wouldn't have to explain much then!!


 

 You're in big trouble Aqsw. Just tell your wife it's a new pancake maker.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> You're in big trouble Aqsw. Just tell your wife it's a new pancake maker.


 
 I'm not too worried. We've been together for a long time and she has never gotten angry over one of my purchases. As long as the two kids tuitions are paid, and there's food on the table, I can pretty well do anything I want.
  
 Real excited to compare the Elise to the Liquid Carbon. Will be real easy to do. Just switch inputs on my dac, and change headphones!!


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Just keep listening and take your time - it may take a couple of days sometimes to figure out the differences.
> 
> The best thing is to use a familiar good sounding recording and compare it. I have to admit that critical listening is tiring, and many times I switch off my analytical mode and just enjoy the music.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Mordy, you're right. I am 80% enjoying music and 20% comparing my gear. Hard to tell the difference, but I have noticed that Elise is mellowing the music down a bit, if that is the correct audio talk 
  
 Right now I am struggling with the data transmission to the hardware, Kernel Streaming vs WASAPI vs ASIO vs Direct Sound. This is an even bigger trouble I have got into. Do you have any idea about it? Or anyone else? I integrated my DAC within JRiver Media Center 20.
  
 Everything is working fine but I want to know what is the difference between everything LOL
  
 I have found another forum that is for those who talk about things now in tough grammar but support their idea with samples and test results, it is called HydrogenAudio haha.. People literally scold each other if someone talks about audio in terms of cars or poetic style..


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Nep these are yours
> 
> I believe these are JV's Joybringers. JV can you confirm?




Close....but mine are Visseaux (French made). These are Italian made.

.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven regarding your question on a good testing tube that arrive dead on arrival, you can get a refund ..no questions asked. eBay is good in this respect. You'll be looked after. Most good sellers will believe you too and refund promptly. That has been my experience with buying from eBay. Buy with confidence.


 
 I just realized that my first ever purchase on eBay has been a mess, the seller does not accept returning of goods. What should I do in that case? I paid by the Paypal and used eBay.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I just realized that my first ever purchase on eBay has been a mess, the seller does not accept returning of goods. What should I do in that case? I paid by the Paypal and used eBay.


 

 No problem Raven. I bought a pair of ECC31 from a seller who does not accept returns but when I told him the tubes are not what I expected he refunded me no questions asked. Even refunded me before I send the tubes back. Now that's trust.
  
 In any case, eBay has a money back guarantee. In the event that the item is faulty or not as described you can ask for a refund and eBay will back you up 100% even if the seller has a no return clause. Know your consumer rights. In any legal transactions the rule of fair play applies. I have 3 occasions now where eBay is 100% supportive and got my money back.
  
 Don't leave it too long though. I think according to eBay there is a one month duration to address any issues. The seller may say 14 days but it doesn't matter. eBay has the final say. Don't forget also that Paypal will also help you. So you have 2 big companies supporting you.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Close....but mine are Vissenaux (French made). These are Italian made.


 

 I see. No wonder they are Joybringers. This review on the Visseaux 6N7G is lavish in it praise. Said it's even better than ECC32 according to his ears.
http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1119&osCsid=3b976a202ddf4ffa745f81b7f3104530
  
 Now I really hope the Mazda and Visseaux are similar. They certainly look the same in construction. Opinion anyone?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Now I really hope the Mazda and Visseaux are similar. They certainly look the same in construction. Opinion anyone?




Mine are sensitive to the Power tubes used. Bear that in mind when you audition yours  

.


----------



## hpamdr

For the one interested in Visseaux 6SN7GT not JoyBringer.....
 Find a closer picture of it with a lot of details.


----------



## UntilThen

Is that a different Visseaux 6N7GT? This photo shows a Visseaux 6N7GT and 6N7G notice the black plates are rounded and the top fins are different.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Is that a different Visseaux 6N7GT? This photo shows a Visseaux 6N7GT and 6N7G notice the black plates are rounded and the top fins are different.


 
 The old Style 6N7G / 6N7GT with round plate and that need an adapter. (Like the French Mazda)
 You have the next generation, 6SN7GT T plate (The picture of my previous post)


----------



## UntilThen

Ah my bad I miss the S. Yes this is the 6SN7GT version from Visseaux and you said it sounded good on a previous post.
  
 I do like the 6SN7 in my inventory, particularly Sylvania 6SN7WGT and Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears and also RCA 6SN7GT Smoke glass vt231. If I needed more bass I'd pair it with 5998 otherwise the Chatham or the Mullard power tubes will do. Of course even plain Jane RCA 6AS7G.
  
 I sold a RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6SN7GTB coinbase to a guy who has been using the stock tubes on his Darkvoice and he's dancing with happiness.


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Just keep listening and take your time - it may take a couple of days sometimes to figure out the differences.
> ...


 
 Everything you need to know about computer audio here                  http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/


----------



## JazzVinyl

​
Cheers to the LUCKY ones!​


----------



## UntilThen

Only a macro lens can get that close. Nice photo.
  
 I bought a pair of Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080/CV2984 from the same Aussie seller. He priced the Chatham at AUD$150 and Mullard at AUD$75 and told me that the Chathams have got better constructions.
  
 I'm not dictated by price but I do have a slight preference on the Chatham 6AS7G. I'm sure there will be others who prefer the Mullards over the Chathams. Basically it's how you like your mud crabs. Do you like chilli crabs or salt and pepper crabs. Both are great power tubes though IMHO.


----------



## JazzVinyl

If you already have some Sylvania 6SN7's, I highly recommend a pair of 5998's as powers. They are happy campers, together, in this amp.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> No problem Raven. I bought a pair of ECC31 from a seller who does not accept returns but when I told him the tubes are not what I expected he refunded me no questions asked. Even refunded me before I send the tubes back. Now that's trust.
> 
> In any case, eBay has a money back guarantee. In the event that the item is faulty or not as described you can ask for a refund and eBay will back you up 100% even if the seller has a no return clause. Know your consumer rights. In any legal transactions the rule of fair play applies. I have 3 occasions now where eBay is 100% supportive and got my money back.
> 
> Don't leave it too long though. I think according to eBay there is a one month duration to address any issues. The seller may say 14 days but it doesn't matter. eBay has the final say. Don't forget also that Paypal will also help you. So you have 2 big companies supporting you.


 
 That is comforting 

 The real worry you just added is timelines, my tubes might arrive earlier than my adapters which are coming from China. What if I pass that 1 month test period? Then? If the tubes turn out to be humming like crazy?  I will be dead..


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> Everything you need to know about computer audio here                  http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/


 
 This looks like the bible of computer audiophiles  Thank you!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> ​ Cheers to the LUCKY ones!​


 
 Now tell us what lens is that that lets you get up close?  I always wanted a macro or micro lens.. I almost bought it either, but I missed it, long story behind it. Nice, I might do that some time soon too..


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> That is comforting
> 
> The real worry you just added is timelines, my tubes might arrive earlier than my adapters which are coming from China. What if I pass that 1 month test period? Then? If the tubes turn out to be humming like crazy?  I will be dead..


 

 After one month....I think you can always try to talk to the seller about what happen. If he's not sympathetic then talk to eBay. Seriously eBay goes out of their way to make your purchases a pleasant one. They won't lose one customer just over one item.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Now tell us what lens is that that lets you get up close?  I always wanted a macro or micro lens.. I almost bought it either, but I missed it, long story behind it. Nice, I might do that some time soon too..




Hello LR...
I have 2 macro lenses, both by Olympus. One goes to 1/2 life size, the other all the way to 1:1 life size. 
Used the 1/2 life size lens, on this image. It was not quite at the closest focus setting. 

.
.


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Everything you need to know about computer audio here                  http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/
> ...


 
 Im still very happy to have stumbled on this site tons of stuff in there


----------



## UntilThen

This is my Nikon macro but I don't want to get up close and personal again.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Im still very happy to have stumbled on this site tons of stuff in there


 

 Hmmm interesting site indeed. This will keep me even busier. Just saw that Windows 10 doesn't support USB2....definitely don't touch Windows 10 yet. I prefer iMac for source though. Unix is just more resilient.
 I do agree with what's said ...'Your PC can sound as good as your CDP'  with the right setup.
 This link is good for anyone starting out using PC as source. It's quite basic stuff but will get you going.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's Sonic Treat:

Song: "Nuages" (Clouds)
Artist: James Carter
Album: Chasin' The Gypsy

An eclectic collection of instruments in an interesting arrangement.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey Tom, do you see my Elise from up there? Please keep an eye out.


----------



## Suuup

Just got two slips in my mailbox, notifying me I have 2 packages waiting for me at the post office. One of the packages is from Hong Kong. Does that sound like adapters to you? It sure does to me. The other package I suspect is a pair of FDD20 from Germany. Lastly, I have a pair of ECC31, currently in Copenhagen, headed my way. They should be here tomorrow. 
  
 I think I have to call in sick tomorrow.


----------



## nephilim

Hmm, TAS (Tube Aqcuisition Syndrome) is biting again.
  
 What would be the "best" tube:
  
 Fivre 6N7G
 Visseaux  6N7G (coke bottle style)
 Mazda 6N7
  
 Hmm, I rather should burn in the FDD20 instead of eyeing other drivers.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


>


 
  
 Hey Suuup, be careful...such suspense can be a heart-stopper, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...my best wishes to you!!


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> Hmm, TAS (Tube Aqcuisition Syndrome) is biting again.
> 
> What would be the "best" tube:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo neph...looking forward to your findings - they do really need a good long burn-in before finally settling down to their true signature - in the Elise, at least...and certainly when in combo with an ECC31, lol! So it looks like a case of plenty of midnight oil, mon ami!


----------



## Lord Raven

Good idea!


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Hmm, I rather should burn in the FDD20 instead of eyeing other drivers.




Hello Neph, 

The FDD20's continue to get better and better, as they go. You'll be amazed


----------



## Lord Raven

Does 6N7 require adapters?


----------



## hypnos1

Well folks, talking of the FDD20...yet again!...Given recent circumstances surrounding its combination with an ECC31, I have been trying _very_ hard to ascertain any negative shortcomings in such a marriage.
  
 The fact that I have to keep going backwards and forwards to get an assessment at least shows there are no obvious major discrepancies - _in my system/ears etc_...(Pure silver interconnects/ESS Sabre DAC/Beyer T1s). I am forced to scrutinise/analyse in a way that is quite hard work - together they perform in a way that makes this unavoidable, alas...after the necessary _long_ burn-in, that is.
  
 And my latest findings only reinforce what I have already described (ad nauseum...for which I apologise, lol!)   :  
  
 It is, IMHO, a wonderful marriage of two tubes very similar in many ways, but with certain differences individually. The greater sub-bass of the 31 combines with the C3g-like extended treble and tonal range of the FDD20, with neither having any adverse effect on the other whatsoever. In fact, that extra treble handling also helps display more subtle tones even in those more bass-oriented instruments, like cello and lower register brass. In addition, it helps generate an even more holographic soundstage, without spoiling the extremely accurate, pinpoint imaging and instrument/voice separation.
  
 Once again, there's a bit of the C3g's 'bite' (but slightly sweetened!), which gives electric guitar the 'scream' it sometimes calls for, but also the more subtle tonal range of acoustic guitar...when called for. Plus a tad more delicious decay to 'splash' percussion and the likes. I believe in the end, this is probably the main difference between the combo and 2x ECC31s...ie. that little bit of extra 'sparkle', which is there in the C3g in abundance (but which can be a little _too_ abundant in the C3g for some ears, lol!). This for me, combined with the incredible bass and glorious mids of the 31(not that the FDD20 is particularly lacking in either!), makes for a sound that is quite remarkable from such a modestly priced amp.
  
 Obviously this is my own experience with such a combo, but JV has already had similar findings...and I (we!) look forward to others' results, with other gear and other ears...
  
 But I continue to test these findings with as many different pieces as my poor head will take...perhaps soon I shall be able to just sit back and immerse myself in the pure, non-analytical, more relaxed enjoyment of my favourite music..._please, lol!!!_


----------



## hpamdr

lord raven said:


> Does 6N7 require adapters?


 

 The same adapter as the ECC31  (6N7), ECC32 (6SN7 )d oes not require any adapter. See botom view of each tube type !
 See (H)eater filament position, Common (K)Cathode, and (G)rid and (P)late position, and the not connected Pin ! )
  
6N7 / ECC31

  
 6SN7 / ECC32


----------



## UntilThen

The 6N7G Philco continues to amaze me. If you already have a pair of ECC31 and the adapters, there's no reason not to invest in a cheap pair of 6N7G even the ones made in USA. For 4 days now I have been running 6N7G or ECC31 only on a few occasion switching back to 5998/6SN7. I'd almost be certain to say I prefer the 6N7G or ECC31 over the Sylvania 6SN7WGT or 7N7.
  
 Nep I think it's worthwhile to invest in an extra pair of European made 6N7G just to experiment with it. I don't think they will perform less than those made in USA. I will know when the Mazda arrives.
 The 6N7 (metal shield) on the other hand with longer listening just lack behind the 6N7G. However as it is cheap there's no harm trying out for yourself.
  
 I'm now very tempted to get a pair of 6A6 with adapters to try out.


----------



## UntilThen

Just got these...Visseaux 6A6 with adapters. Tubes are cheap, much cheaper than 6N7G. I hope they perform just as good.
  
 Now I have to paint Elise white.


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Today's Sonic Treat:


 
  
 I'm sorry, guys, I'm crying. This song is so incredibly sad.


----------



## UntilThen

lol Oskari good to see you talking something else besides tubes for a change. Slim Dusty is almost an aussie icon. I can guarantee you that there's no shortage of beer or wine down under.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Im still very happy to have stumbled on this site tons of stuff in there
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

My curiosity is piqued on the 6A6 because Gibosi says his Sylvania 6A6 sounded musical. Here's a link with all the info on 6A6. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/tube-of-month-6a6.html
  
 I look forward to testing this tube.
  
 So while I'm at it, I also ordered a pair of NU to compare with the Visseaux. At $15 a pair it's worth a try.


----------



## MIKELAP

Sampled a pair of PHILCO 6N7GT and a pair of Mazda 6N7G i find the Mazda are smoother sounding than the Philco's especially the top end that's with WA22 and HD800  .Any comments .Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

Would be better to compare a Mazda 6N7G with a Philco 6N7G. That's what I'm waiting to find out when my Mazda arrives. I wouldn't be surprise if the 6N7G sounded slightly different from the 6N7GT.
  
 My comparison of the 6N7G and 6N7 shows noticeable differences. See my earlier post.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Sampled a pair of PHILCO 6N7GT and a pair of Mazda 6N7G i find the Mazda are smoother sounding than the Philco's especially the top end that's with WA22 and HD800  .Any comments .Thanks




Hello Mike...

Yes, I have sampled all three styles of 6N7 and thought the larger shouldered bottle was a noticeable improvement over the other two styles. 
The metal can, better than the GT that I sampled, but the star of the show was the ST bottle. 
.


----------



## mordy

Hi,

Running a perhaps unusual tube complement:

The drivers are two sub miniature Sylvania 7963; the power tubes are a 6BL7 (1.5A) and a RCA 6AS7GA (nee Sylvania).

It sounds quite good. My assumption is that there is no substitute for horsepower (amps), but I can't hear a huge difference between these disparate power tubes, however, the bass is stronger on the 2.5A 6AS7GA side. The sound stage is coherent and not perceived as two halves put together.

The 7963 has 8 very thin wires. My previous attempt to take small pieces of 1mm copper wire to wedge the thin wires into the sockets of a 9pin adapter did not work - wires would not make good contact or stay in place. (It worked with the other sub miniature tube, the Raytheon 6832, because it has thicker wires.)

I am not good at soldering, so I devised a different method of attaching the 1mm pins to the wire leads.
From an old fluorescent fixture i found solid copper wires with the right 1mm thickness. Stripped the wires with a wire stripper and cut up 16 x 20 mm long copper wire pieces. Then I took 1mm thickness heat shrinkable tubing and cut the lengths to cover the tube wires. Afterwards I pushed in the 20mm copper rod and left 6mm exposed at the end. Used a cigarette lighter to shrink the tubing ( a hair drier would be better because the flame from the cigarette lighter discolored the tubing ). Repeat 16 times.

Thanks to Gibosi I have a wiring diagram. The wires coming out of the sub miniature tube are very close to each other, but there is a little bigger space between wires 1 and 8. Used a magic marker to mark the tube with lead #1. The pushed in each lead into the right spot on the 9pin adapter (pin#9 is not used). 

Found the Sylvania sub miniature tubes better sounding the Raytheon. In the past people on the LD thread compared a couple of Russian sub miniature tubes to the US made ones; as I recall the Syl was the best one.

Conclusion: The Syl sub minis sound very good, with good bass and nice sizzle in the treble; good soundstage - a very pleasant presentation. And the tubes are not burned in yet. 

Because the wire leads are not inserted in order in the 9pin socket, the whole contraption looks a little like a wilting flower - some wires have shorter distance to the socket pins than others. Don't have the patience to make it aesthetically pleasing, but it could be done. 

Let's call it an experimental set up...


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy show a picture please.
  
 The NU 6A6 seller email me and said it will be send out tomorrow and said thanks. Now I'm really impressed. The tubes cost $15 but he wrote me a personal email. I call that great service.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

I want to post a picture, but something happened to the toolbar for posts - it just disappeared, and I can't find a way to post pictures.

HELP!


----------



## UntilThen

Huh? lol. Weird it's ok on mine. I have no idea what happened to your toolbar.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> I want to post a picture, but something happened to the toolbar for posts - it just disappeared, and I can't find a way to post pictures.
> 
> HELP!




What computer operating system and what internet browser software are you using, Mordy?

.


----------



## mordy

Vista and Firefox


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Vista and Firefox




PM sent...


----------



## UntilThen

It's possible you've click 'Source' by mistake and disabled the other icons. Click it again to bring them back. It's in the box where you do your reply. Top left hand corner. I can't think of why you would not be able to use the 'Insert Image' function otherwise.


----------



## UntilThen

ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G on the Darkvoice is driving my HE560 to ecstasy. It's 35ohms and low sensitivity 90db but at 11o'clock on the DV volume, the sound is full on. The Wall by Pink Floyd becomes so enjoyable. Bass has great impact now and mid range more upfront and engaging. HE560 is really such a nice headphone.
  
 ECC31 has become my benchmark now where driver tubes are concerned on the DV and no doubt on Elise too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G on the Darkvoice is driving my HE560 to ecstasy.




Question regarding the Chatham 6AS7G...

What has more bass impact? The Chatham or a Tung-Sol 5998?

.


----------



## UntilThen

5998 for sure.
  
 I tried the ECC31/5998 combo but the bass is a bit much for me. With the ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G it's spot on.
  
 Pity I don't have GEC 6AS7G to try.


----------



## UntilThen

I switch to this combo ...ECC31/Mullard 6080(CV2984).  Same sonic ecstasy as the ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G.  Mullard sounds a bit more energetic whereas the Chatham seems more mellow and relax. Only just. I really can't say which I prefer more. Both have the striking copper rod.
  
 I have to say I really love the Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard CV2984 power tubes....apart from my Tung Sol 5998 and the 7236.


----------



## UntilThen

What good would tubes be without beautiful guitar playing.
  
 Jeff Beck ranked 5th on Rolling Stones's list of '100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time' and look at the young girl Tal Wilkenfeld ...just amazing bass guitarist...and she's Australian.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg ECC31/Tung Sol 5998 makes Leonard Cohen voice even better. How is that possible? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I don't regret for a moment buying all the tubes. Variety is the spice of life !!!


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Omg ECC31/Tung Sol 5998 makes Leonard Cohen voice even better. How is that possible?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And your Elise is on the air near the Clouds.... I hope you receive your 0.3Kg parcel soon


----------



## UntilThen

I check again and Elise is now 6.25kgs. She's growing by the minute. By the time she gets here she'll be an Amazon.
  
 2.5 months ago I ask a friend who owns a La Figaro 339. Should I get La Figaro 339 or Elise and I was told to get Elise. I had expected the answer to be LF..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So you see it's fated. I'm getting Elise for better or for worst. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Elise has left Poland.


----------



## UntilThen

Nep this is too nice. You should press the buy button now. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger says...'Come on, do it now!'
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Fivre-6N7G-ECC31-CV1285-NR73-NOS-NIB-1942-Air-Force-Markings-Matched-/231728525477?hash=item35f418b0a5:g:6c0AAOSwT5tWKQBq
  
 The seller says...
  
_I will guarantee the tubes to test 100% on your tester and sound good in your amp. Returns accepted for any reason. Also tested for leaks and shorts under both hot and cold conditions. Very rare in this condition._


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> I check again and Elise is now 6.25kgs. She's growing by the minute. By the time she gets here she'll be an Amazon.
> 
> 2.5 months ago I ask a friend who owns a La Figaro 339. Should I get La Figaro 339 or Elise and I was told to get Elise. I had expected the answer to be LF.....
> 
> ...


 

 Woaohh so many stellar dust around her ... But if it is a polish amazon who land at your home i'm sure you will get into troubles 
 I was also tempted by LF339 and decided to go with handcrafted Elise...
 If your friend is next to your door, should probably organize a listening session and share with us your impresions using the same tubes. 
_--- Edited--_
_And we will be dissapointed or not ?_


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> If your friend is next to your door, should probably organize a listening session and share with us your impresions using the same tubes.


 
 Well that's impossible. My friend doesn't live anywhere remotely near me and also LF339 uses a different set of drivers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> What good would tubes be without beautiful guitar playing.
> 
> Jeff Beck ranked 5th on Rolling Stones's list of '100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time' and look at the young girl Tal Wilkenfeld ...just amazing bass guitarist...and she's Australian. :bigsmile_face:




I have seen Jeff Beck live, a couple of times. He is fantastic.

I have the DVD of the live show that you provided the video for..,

Tal Wilkenfeld is great, but AFAIK she never appeared with him again. It was a one shot deal.

Did know she was AUS


----------



## hpamdr

If you like guitar and Jazz UT, JV just give a look at this !
 I was near the technical tent and it was a fantastic concert 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Biréli Lagrène is really awesome.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> What good would tubes be without beautiful guitar playing.
> 
> Jeff Beck ranked 5th on Rolling Stones's list of '100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time' and look at the young girl Tal Wilkenfeld ...just amazing bass guitarist...and she's Australian.




 Saw this show live at Ronnie Scott and its a great album


----------



## Suuup

Turns out, the tubes waiting for me at the post office wasn't the FDD20. It was the ECC31's! This means Hypnos posted them one day, and the next day they tried to deliver it at my doorstep (I wasn't home). That's pretty fast for international shipping if you ask me. 
  
 As for the ECC31's initial impressions is: They go deep. They're actually humming a bit, both of them. The humming is so deep, that it is on the verge of what I'm capable of hearing. It's a pleasant hum, that I hope doesn't go away with burn in, as I quite like it. In 'Your Lastest Trick' by Dire Straits, it provides a pleasant fill in the song. In Rebecca Pidgeon's 'The Raven', which is very treble focused, it creates a 'room' for me. It's as if it's me and her in a room, a pair of violins and a piano. This is quite a special feeling.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Saw this show live at Ronnie Scott and its a great album




You were THERE, at the show, Mike?

WOW!


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Saw this show live at Ronnie Scott and its a great album
> ...


 
 NO NO NO sorry  lol saw the show LIVE AT RONNIE SCOTT on t.v. sorry i could of phrase this better lol .but it would of been an incredible show


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> If you like guitar and Jazz UT, JV just give a look at this !
> I was near the technical tent and it was a fantastic concert :bigsmile_face: ...Biréli Lagrène is really awesome.




Hello hpmdr...
Oh yes, very familiar with Bireli Lagrene's electric work. Have a number of his LP's (and CD's) from when he was young man, and an electric guitar aficionado.

His "Foreign Affairs" is an incredible album. The CD is good but the LP is on a level of it's own, the sound quality is absolutely superb.

I had not looked him up in years, and a little surprised to see him at this age, and weight. He was "skinny' when younger 

We try not to age, but time has it's rage, 'eh?

Thanks for this


----------



## Lord Raven

Do you mean, the adapter that does ECC31/6SN7? I have ordered these recently for my ECC31 tubes, can I use the same with 6N7 if I plan to get those?
  
 I don't get the figures posted :/ Are these two different adapter schematics?
  
 Quote:


hpamdr said:


> The same adapter as the ECC31  (6N7), ECC32 (6SN7 )d oes not require any adapter. See botom view of each tube type !
> See (H)eater filament position, Common (K)Cathode, and (G)rid and (P)late position, and the not connected Pin ! )
> 
> 6N7 / ECC31
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello LR...

Yes, the same adapter you have coming for for ECC31, works for 6N7G and 6N7GT and 6N7 tubes.


----------



## hpamdr

Hi L.R.
  
Yes the Adapter that do ECC31 -> 6SN7  is the  one that you cane reuse for 6N7G / GT tubes.
 The schematic I posted is the bottom view of a tube that describe the pinout in respect to the internal element ( K Cathode, Grid , Plates, Heater filament, .... )


----------



## UntilThen

JV I am so jealous you saw Jeff Beck live a few times and you have the DVD of that video!!! Mike too saw it live but on his TV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They said Robert Plant was in the audience.
  
 Jeff Beck is a great guitarist ...I'm not surprise Tal is a once off but you should check her profile, she's a rising star and yes she hails from Sydney. Eh not true JV. Tal appeared with Jeff Beck again in Eric Clapton's Crossroads 2007. Check that out on Youtube. You have to give credit to the drummer too. He's just amazing.
  
 Omg there's a new listing for this...http://www.ebay.com/itm/WONDERFUL-RARE-MINT-PERFECT-PAIR-6N7G-FIVRE-ECC31-CV1956-BROWN-base-NOS-NIB-/272024857565?hash=item3f55f1ebdd:g:Hi8AAOSw9mFWKjdo
  
 Nep did you buy the 1st pair?
  
 Raven go on get a pair of 6N7G. You already have the adapters.
  
 Suuup funny you like hums !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I should like my humming ECC31 too.
  
 Hpa thanks for the link on Bireli Lagrene. It's great.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> JV I am so jealous you saw Jeff Beck live a few times and you have the DVD of that video!!! Mike too saw it live but on his TV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's a bit annoying between songs, but during the songs I think it sounds great. It's low enough that if I wear the headphones without music playing for a while, I'll stop noticing the hum. 
  
 I think it might be the adapters. Is this possible? If I touch the adapters, the hum becomes much louder. I don't understand why. They're made of plastic, how can this alter the sound?!


----------



## UntilThen

In case  you didn't know, Rolling Stones list of '100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time'
  

Jimi Hendrix
Eric Clapton
Jimmy Page
Keith Richards
Jeff Beck
  
 and I love Keith solo albums.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> In case  you didn't know, Rolling Stones list of '100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time'
> 
> 
> Jimi Hendrix
> ...


 

 Rolling Stones point of view and somehow limited to amplified music....


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> It's a bit annoying between songs, but during the songs I think it sounds great. It's low enough that if I wear the headphones without music playing for a while, I'll stop noticing the hum.
> 
> I think it might be the adapters. Is this possible? If I touch the adapters, the hum becomes much louder. I don't understand why. They're made of plastic, how can this alter the sound?!


 
 You turn the sound down to zero, you can have some hum if :
 0) the tube is defective.
 0) the heater circuits is not well grounded or enough stabilised for the current you drain.
  
 1) the pins of the tube are oxidised ? 
  
 2) If the adapter is not well built / soldered and/or your tube and the adapters are not pushed at botom,


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> You turn the sound down to zero, you can have some hum if :
> 0) the tube is defective.
> 0) the heater circuits is not well grounded or enough stabilised for the current you drain.
> 
> ...


 
 Colin tested the tubes in his Elise, and he didn't notice any hum. This leaves only the last option, right? Or could it be a grounding problem? I don't have a grounding pin on the AC chord, so I guess it's not grounded at all? But wouldn't my 6SN7 be humming also, then? It seems to me it must be the adapters, as long as Colin correctly, which of course he did. 
  
 The hum is a bit more noticeable now than in the beginning. Maybe I should order a new pair of adapters. 
  
 Edit: Also, when I touch the adapters, the extra hum goes away if I also touch the Elise, but only the extra hum from touching. Another thing. If I turn off the Elise and touch the adapters, they will still hum quite a bit.


----------



## nephilim

hpamdr said:


> You turn the sound down to zero, you can have some hum if :
> 0) the tube is defective.
> 0) the heater circuits is not well grounded or enough stabilised for the current you drain.
> 
> ...


 

 I have that "volume at zero hum" with all power tubes except one pair of 5998... The other 5998 pair hums a bit louder and the other 4-5 power tube pairs give a significantly louder hum. Drivers make no difference. This weekend I will be able to test the amp at another place... let's see if it's the amp or the power source.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Omg there's a new listing for this...http://www.ebay.com/itm/WONDERFUL-RARE-MINT-PERFECT-PAIR-6N7G-FIVRE-ECC31-CV1956-BROWN-base-NOS-NIB-/272024857565?hash=item3f55f1ebdd:g:Hi8AAOSw9mFWKjdo
> 
> Nep did you buy the 1st pair?


 
  
 Maybe.... ;->


----------



## UntilThen

^^ I think it's a great buy. So well preserved with the original boxes and wrappings. You can tell us about the FIVRE.
  
 The Mazda 6N7G that I bought has a new listing too but now the seller says won't send to Australia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I expect my pair to be send out soon.


----------



## hpamdr

This is why some chinese adapter are not a so 


suuup said:


> The hum is a bit more noticeable now than in the beginning. Maybe I should order a new pair of adapters.


 
 You should probably chose a beter adapter than the chinese one you find on ebay or try to find a Diyer next to your door that can re-solder it for you...


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I have that "volume at zero hum" with all power tubes except one pair of 5998... The other 5998 pair hums a bit louder and the other 4-5 power tube pairs give a significantly louder hum. Drivers make no difference. This weekend I will be able to test the amp at another place... let's see if it's the amp or the power source.


 

 Interesting on my Darkvoice 336se none of my power tubes hum. Only some driver tubes hum. Maybe it's the reverse in the southern hemisphere.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Suuup I'm curious why don't you have a grounding pin on your AC chord? You should have a 3 pin plug.


----------



## mordy

Listening through my speakers I don't have any hum unless I crank up the volume to such levels that I can't listen.

However, there is a persistent low level hum present at any volume level using my headphones. This hum was not there in the beginning, but appeared later.

I am using a three pronged power cord with a grounding pin. What more can I do to ground the Elise?

PS: Still have not got back my posting tool bar....


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Listening through my speakers I don't have any hum unless I crank up the volume to such levels that I can't listen.
> 
> However, there is a persistent low level hum present at any volume level using my headphones. This hum was not there in the beginning, but appeared later.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried installing a new browser? Or maybe just clearing cache / cookies? It should do the trick.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Listening through my speakers I don't have any hum unless I crank up the volume to such levels that I can't listen.
> 
> However, there is a persistent low level hum present at any volume level using my headphones. This hum was not there in the beginning, but appeared later.
> 
> ...


 

 Just plug back the original 6H13C and original Drivers and listen.... if it is dead quiet that means that this is on your side. If not, ask Lukasz about it !


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> PS: Still have not got back my posting tool bar....




FireFox Main Menu->Options->Options->Advanced->Network
2nd box says "Cached Web Content" there is a button: "Clear Now" click it!

When it's done clearing (could take a while if you have never done this) exit and restart FireFox. 
If that does *not* work, uninstall and re-install FireFox with the latest version.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I don't have a grounding pin on the AC chord, so I guess it's not grounded at all?e adapters, they will still hum quite a bit.




Suuup, are you certain that your cord did not have three blades (including one for grounding)?
Can you post a picture of your plug end, and one of your wall receptacle, please?

Appreciate!

.


----------



## nephilim

Received my spare 5998 pair... and went back to the ECC31, giving the FDD20 a short rest. The bass fundament of this combination is really fascinating. Listening to the early albums of Fiona Apple... the distinct bass is never overwhelming but is a beautifully strong base the whole song is resting on.
  
  
 I am curious if the FDD20 will reach this level... and how the 6N7G will sound.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup, are you certain that your cord did not have three blades (including one for grounding)?
> Can you post a picture of your plug end, and one of your wall receptacle, please?
> 
> Appreciate!
> ...


 
 Certainly.
 Here is the Elise power chord. It goes into this extender:

 This extender goes into another extender:

 Which goes into this wall outlet:

 As you can see, no grounding pin.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Received my spare 5998 pair... and went back to the ECC31, giving the FDD20 a short rest. The bass fundament of this combination is really fascinating. I am curious if the FDD20 will reach this level... and how the 6N7G will sound.




Very good neph!!

I was hoping you would try the FDD20/ECC31 combo!!
And I can tell you the bass firms up on the FDD20, with much use. Mine is plus 100 hours and it just keeps getting better 

.


----------



## nephilim

Suup, don't you have something like this in your house?
  

  
 Sorry for the silly frame... I linked this from my flickr account (taken during my latest vacation in Denmark )


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> Suup, don't you have something like this in your house?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the silly frame... I linked this from my flickr account (taken during my latest vacation in Denmark )


 
 I do, but not in this room. The building is from the 80's. I have no power chord with a grounding prong, though. 
  
 Exciting, you've been to Denmark.


----------



## JazzVinyl

```

```



suuup said:


> I do, but not in this room. The building is from the 80's. I have no power chord with a grounding prong, though.




I would consider talking to en electrician, Suuup. I would consider the Elise to be a dangerous appliance, if not properly grounded.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, but basically _nothing_ is grounded in Denmark. My fridge isn't grounded, neither is my freezer, oven, stove or toaster. Everyone is joking that, when they get a chord with a third prong, they just tear it off. This is also the reason why I don't have a power chord with a grounding pin. 
  
 Edit: Okay, turns out I did have a grounded power chord after all. It did nothing for the hum, however.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup you need to get grounded.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup you need to get grounded.


 
 I tried grounding the Elise, but nothing changed.


----------



## UntilThen

So basically with your stock tubes you're not getting hum but only when you switched the drivers to ECC31?


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Received my spare 5998 pair... and went back to the ECC31, giving the FDD20 a short rest. The bass fundament of this combination is really fascinating. Listening to the early albums of Fiona Apple... the distinct bass is never overwhelming but is a beautifully strong base the whole song is resting on.
> 
> 
> I am curious if the FDD20 will reach this level... and how the 6N7G will sound.


 
 I agree that the ECC31/5998 or 6N7G/5998 is potent (on my DV). It's at the level of bass found on the audio technica ath-m50x headphone which I used to have but sold off because the head clamp is hurting my head.
  
 Potent doesn't mean it's blur or muddy. Everything is still crystal clear but just a very satisfying bass and I would say the mid range seems full....of life.
  
 I can't comment on FDD20 yet because I have not heard it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> So basically with your stock tubes you're not getting hum but only when you switched the drivers to ECC31?


 
 Yea. 1 adapter hums quite a bit, the other only very little. I tried putting a 6N7G in the faulty adapter, and it hummed just the same as the ECC31, which leads me to suspect it has nothing to do with the tubes, but rather the adapter. I tried with 2x ECC31, but changed the adapters around, and the hum went from primarily on the right channel to primarily on the left channel. I think that nails it down, must be the adapter(s). I sent a message to the seller, awaiting response.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I tried with 2x ECC31, but changed the adapters around, and the hum went from primarily on the right channel to primarily on the left channel. I think that nails it down, must be the adapter(s). I sent a message to the seller, awaiting response.




I would agree, and suspect the adapters, Suuup...good job of running this down. And I am still amazed at the lack of grounding the electric in Denmark, whoa!


----------



## UntilThen

I want to get another pair of ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters. These ones are not level and I don't like slightly slanting tubes. That's the OCD part of me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Anyone has recommendations?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I want to get another pair of ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters. These ones are not level and I don't like slightly slanting tubes. That's the OCD part of me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do yours hum?


----------



## UntilThen

No hum at all using these adapters on all my ECC31 and 6N7G except for that one ECC31 which I think is really faulty because there's a flash of light on start up and the hum is motor loud that I can hear even with music playing at 9 o'clock.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have 'pedestrian' adapters....and no hum in mine that I have detected. Mine are all plastic. One is a bit tilty, but I put the tube in crooked to compensate 

.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> No hum at all using these adapters on all my ECC31 and 6N7G except for that one ECC31 which I think is really faulty because there's a flash of light on start up and the hum is motor loud that I can hear even with music playing at 9 o'clock.


 
 i have one that flares up on startup but i think that's normal seen this in other tubes i have but i only have one that does this so who knows.I have those adapters above and so far so good there's a bit of noise or interference but nothing to bother tough ,but with tubes its rarely dead silent in my experience .


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > I want to get another pair of ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters. These ones are not level and I don't like slightly slanting tubes. That's the OCD part of me.
> ...


 
 I would probably try those next if the other ones didnt work anymore                                                                                                                                               http://www.ebay.com/itm/201134198992?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> i have one that flares up on startup but i think that's normal seen this in other tubes i have but i only have one that does this so who knows.I have those adapters above and so far so good there's a bit of noise or interference but nothing to bother tough ,but with tubes its rarely dead silent in my experience .


 

 Believe me Mike on my el cheapo but el goodo Chinese made DV336se most of my tubes are dead silent even at max volume with no music playing.
  
 Let me go on record to say that the DV336se is really a lip smacking good value tube amp.


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> I would probably try those next if the other ones didnt work anymore                                                                                                                                               http://www.ebay.com/itm/201134198992?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Does anyone owns those adapters? How do the (3?) different adapters compare?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Does anyone owns those adapters? How do the (3?) different adapters compare?




I have these...no problems, except one mounting surface is a little uneven

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter-/201408123468


----------



## UntilThen

I don't think it will make any difference which ones you choose as long as you get a working pair which most of them are.
  
 However I like bling and I'm thinking of these but they will cost one ECC31 tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ecc31 to 6sn7 adapters

  
 6sn7 socket savers

  
 Geez they look the same !!! Are they supposed to look the same the 6sn7 socket savers and ecc31 to 6sn7 adapters?
  
 Oh no I am looking for 6AS7G gold socket savers 
 There are no 6AS7G gold socket savers....ok forget bling stay with black plastics.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> I have these...no problems, except one mounting surface is a little uneven
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter-/201408123468


 
 I have the same. So the hum is not inherent to this kind of adapter, I just received a bad pair. Good to know. 
  
  


untilthen said:


> I don't think it will make any difference which ones you choose as long as you get a working pair which most of them are.
> 
> However I like bling and I'm thinking of these but they will cost one ECC31 tube
> 
> ...


 
 Isn't it only the wiring that is different? It would make sense that they look the same then. 
 Sidenote: I need to have more commas. How come it's not as widespread in the English language, as it is in Danish?


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > I have these...no problems, except one mounting surface is a little uneven
> ...


 
 Those sockets (below) are not very good quality what you want is the cmc type socket like the ones used in the brass adapters  but they are alot more expensive


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> Those sockets (below) are not very good quality what you want is the cmc type socket like the ones used in the brass adapters  but they are alot more expensive


 
 Aha! So what is the difference between them? And where can I get one like the picture?
  
 Edit: I've had Elise on for ~15 min now, after she's been cold for 3 hours. The hum is almost inaudible now. Could the hum be due to the adapters running too hot?
 Edit2: Now, about 1½ hours later, the hum is back. I think it might be due to the adapters heating up.


----------



## UntilThen

Help I'm having a brain meltdown here. See the picture. The socket saver I use for the power tube was actually bought as the driver socket saver. I am using them as the 5998 socket saver and they work. So there's no difference between power and driver socket savers? Sorry for the noob question lol.
  

  
  
  
 Yes confirmed now they can be used as 6AS7G / 6080 socket savers.
 These are what I bought:- 2PCS 8pin Bakelite Testing Tube Socket Saver FR 6L6, EL34,KT88,KT66,6SN7,6V6 6L6


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Those sockets (below) are not very good quality what you want is the cmc type socket like the ones used in the brass adapters  but they are alot more expensive
> ...


 
 What im talking about is the socket itself  where your tube goes in ,its just made  better and will last longer . Do you want the ECC31 TO 6SN7 adapters heres link      http://www.ebay.com/itm/201134198992?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## JazzVinyl

Today's sonic treat:

Song title "Sweet Emotion"
Artist: Leo Kottke and Mike Gordon
Album: Sixty Six Steps

Cheers!!


----------



## UntilThen

Sweet Emotion is so good on a tube amp. With 5998/ecc31 and hd650 it's pure music to my ears. I don't rave much about my hd650 because there's enough rave about it on Head-Fi. Imaging is great. Can hear all the instruments coming from left, right and centre. Bass is felt in the chest. Head is of course bobbing involuntarily.


----------



## UntilThen

Do you remember the 1st tube you bought? These Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top are my very first tubes. Now pairing with 5998 they sound just great on the DV.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the reason I love Head-Fi and the music I'm listening to.


----------



## Suuup

Just got a message from the seller. He's sending a new pair of adapters, no questions asked.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This is the reason I love Head-Fi and the music I'm listening to.




I saw Lee Ritenour and Mike Stern in a wonderful club in Denver, that was built specifically for shows. Way better seating and acoustics than any club in NYC, I was ever in.

The show was fantastic! The same bass player and drummer as this vid was in the show I saw.

And dang! I am a big Dave Grusin fan...can't believe he looks this old!!

What the HECK 

.


----------



## UntilThen

They are just like wine. They get better with age.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Notice how many strings on that Bass Players' Axe...and it was also synthesized, he really rocked the house...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

A good pair of 6N7G's with 5998's as powers, is a superb combo in the. Elise, too.

Climb aboard, let's go for a ride...to the sky... 

.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Aha! So what is the difference between them? And where can I get one like the picture?
> 
> Edit: I've had Elise on for ~15 min now, after she's been cold for 3 hours. The hum is almost inaudible now. Could the hum be due to the adapters running too hot?
> Edit2: Now, about 1½ hours later, the hum is back. I think it might be due to the adapters heating up.


 
  
 Sorry to see you've been having problems, Suuup...and you're right - definitely not the tubes, lol! Those used ones are as good as my NOS tubes...was very tempted to keep 'em!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 This is indeed always a gamble with adapters, I'm afraid. Having made _many_ for the LittleDots - and now the Elise - I can assure you there are all sorts of problems that can happen in their construction, which are apparent either straight away or only a good bit later...as you suspect, often related to heat issues...or soldering...or unprotected/too close/poor wires...or ??????!...and of course I doubt any are ever tested in an amp before shipping!!
  
 Which is why I personally would go for the best ones possible - especially for something the rank of the ECC31...they _deserve_ the best. Not only because of the better sockets used - as MIKELAP says - but also probably better quality wire and overall construction. You then not only most probably get better performance out of the tubes (I personally have found improvements from using really good wire in them), but also much better reliability and longer life. To me, these adavantages FAR outweigh the extra cost. Even the brass-cased ones MIKELAP mentions are, IMHO, ridiculously cheap when you know what's involved in making the darned things, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


suuup said:


> Just got a message from the seller. He's sending a new pair of adapters, no questions asked.


 
 Good news, S...but I still recommend getting those better quality ones...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> A good pair of 6N7G's with 5998's as powers, is a superb combo in the. Elise, too.
> 
> Climb aboard, let's go for a ride...to the sky...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah JV...so the 6N7Gs are good with the 5998 after all, in the Elise?...that is good news...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but shan't be swapping for my GEC CV2523s, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Just got a message from the seller. He's sending a new pair of adapters, no questions asked.




I got the same adapters from eBay seller Suzier, if they don't work well, I'll ask for new :/

Mike and UT iI guess are also using these, no issues reported so far.


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks JV  Does that mean I need a pair of Mazda 6N7? 



jazzvinyl said:


> Hello LR...
> 
> Yes, the same adapter you have coming for for ECC31, works for 6N7G and 6N7GT and 6N7 tubes.




I think those two schematics should be wired as K going to K, G to G, P to P and H to H in an adapter in order for them to work for any tube. 



hpamdr said:


> Hi L.R.
> 
> Yes the Adapter that do ECC31 -> 6SN7  is the  one that you cane reuse for 6N7G / GT tubes.
> The schematic I posted is the bottom view of a tube that describe the pinout in respect to the internal element ( K Cathode, Grid , Plates, Heater filament, .... )


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, do I need socket savers? If yes, which ones? Please share a link. I'm planning to keep Elise for a long time


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Help I'm having a brain meltdown here. See the picture. The socket saver I use for the power tube was actually bought as the driver socket saver. I am using them as the 5998 socket saver and they work. So there's no difference between power and driver socket savers? Sorry for the noob question lol.
> 
> 
> Yes confirmed now they can be used as 6AS7G / 6080 socket savers.
> These are what I bought:- 2PCS 8pin Bakelite Testing Tube Socket Saver FR 6L6, EL34,KT88,KT66,6SN7,6V6 6L6


 
  
 A socket saver is a straight-through device. You can use an octal socket saver with any octal tube.


----------



## Aussie Lou

lord raven said:


> Guys, do I need socket savers? If yes, which ones? Please share a link. I'm planning to keep Elise for a long time


 

 Socket savers are generally only required on tube testers but if you are rolling a lot of tubes and genuinely feel that they are required then go with these
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191119822335?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 They are from an awesome seller and are very well made.


----------



## Lord Raven

aussie lou said:


> Socket savers are generally only required on tube testers but if you are rolling a lot of tubes and genuinely feel that they are required then go with these
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191119822335?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> They are from an awesome seller and are very well made.




Thank you. I have not rolled a tube so far  Been three months with Elise, but tubes are coming and I'm preparing. I'll check them out just now.


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> aussie lou said:
> 
> 
> > Socket savers are generally only required on tube testers but if you are rolling a lot of tubes and genuinely feel that they are required then go with these
> ...


 
 One thing i noticed is that alot of the times its hard to remove the tubes  from the adapters while leaving adapters in amp that means holding adapter with one hand and pulling out tube with the other very risky


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Notice how many strings on that Bass Players' Axe...and it was also synthesized, he really rocked the house...
> 
> .




That's only a 5 string. Very common nowadays. My daughter uses a 4 or 5 depending on the song. Some custom mades are 7 or 8 strings.


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> One thing i noticed is that alot of the times its hard to remove the tubes  from the adapters while leaving adapters in amp that means holding adapter with one hand and pulling out tube with the other very risky


 
 How should one remove tubes? I find it takes a lot of pressure to get them all the way in, and I'm always afraid I might break something. Nothing broken so far, but I feel like it's only a matter of time.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > One thing i noticed is that alot of the times its hard to remove the tubes  from the adapters while leaving adapters in amp that means holding adapter with one hand and pulling out tube with the other very risky
> ...


 
 Its like cathing a baseball they say you always keep 2 hands on the ball in this case the tube With the smaller Littledot amp tubes i use a rubber finger like this  .you could possibly for traction use something round and rubbery you would use to open a jar with  .


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> Its like cathing a baseball they say you always keep 2 hands on the ball in this case the tube With the smaller Littledot amp tubes i use a rubber finger like this  .you could possibly for traction use something round and rubbery you would use to open a jar with  .


 
 Is it safe to push on the glass of the bottle, or should I only push on the base?


----------



## BearMonster

Anyone with a beyerdynamic t1 2nd generation tell me how the t1 sounds out of the Elise?


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Its like cathing a baseball they say you always keep 2 hands on the ball in this case the tube With the smaller Littledot amp tubes i use a rubber finger like this  .you could possibly for traction use something round and rubbery you would use to open a jar with  .
> ...


 
 Since you are using your 2 hands i put one hand around the top part of the tube  the other on the base exerting pressure evently all around the tube and pulling out ,the top hand is mostly to hold tube steady as  you are pushing upward with the other on the base dont pull on the glass it might loosen the base


----------



## UntilThen

It's weird you guys are talking while I'm sleeping and when I'm talking you're asleep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However I find we have here a most enthusiastic and friendly group.
  
 Oskari thanks for confirming about the socket savers. Yes I have found out that they do indeed work for power and driver tubes and like using them as it makes the tubes elevated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hypnos1 you've just convinced me to get those brass ecc31 to 6sn7 adapters and also the brass socket savers. Raven those black plastic ones are ok if you don't mind your tubes looking like Leaning Towers of Pisa.
  
 I have always considered 5998 power tube to be my benchmark for 6AS7G power tubes sonically. There will be others better or not as good but it's my benchmark. I have found it to pair with ecc31, 6n7g, 7N7 or any 6sn7s amazingly well. My new pair of 5998 is my most expensive purchase to date because a good pair does cost a lot now unfortunately. Now I have to get a pair of those elusive GEC 6AS7G someday !
  
 Inserting tubes into sockets will become second nature in no time. Just as I have never given a thought about how I open the cap off a jar of jam, I just plonk the tubes in with both hands so I can steady it better. The only tubes I have to be careful with are the C3gs as I have been told they are brittle.
  
 Last word on socket savers. I think of them as wallet savers.
  
 P/S Mike has very good advice on not pulling from the glass part of the tube as it could loosen the base.


----------



## UntilThen

bearmonster said:


> Anyone with a beyerdynamic t1 2nd generation tell me how the t1 sounds out of the Elise sounds?


 

 Hi BearMonster and welcome. No one with Elise has a T1 G2 yet I believe but there are many with the original T1. I'm being presumptuous here but I think they will pair well. It's not like they change the T1 drastically. If there's any concern about the new G2 having more bass and with the Elise it might be too much, I would say you can always tune Elise with the vast selections of tubes available. I am looking forward to the G2 next year.
  
 As with any OTL amps Elise will pair with high impedance headphones amazingly well. She also pairs well with lower impedance HP too so I hear. Yes Lukasz has confirm that Elise is true OTL.


----------



## UntilThen

I get so dreamy listening to this...2 genius


----------



## UntilThen

Going to talk a bit on the Tung Sol 7236 in comparison to 6080 and 5998. First of all some specs to take note of regarding amplification factor.
  
 6080 - Amp Factor 2 - Transcond. 7000 µmhos
 7236 - Amp Factor 4.8 - Transcond. 12,500 µmohs
 5998 - Amp Factor 5.4 - Transcond. 15,500 µmohs 
  
 7236 has a tighter bass and seems very controlled but 5998 extends much deeper. 5998 is more dynamic and brings out the vocals at its best. It's not surprising that 5998 sounds louder. 7236 are tubes meant for computer tape drives but I find them quite enjoyable for tube amps. My 7236 are branded IBM. At AUD$100 for a pair, I like them in my collection.
  
 If I have to think in terms of roses in their various stages of flower bloom, these would be it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6080

  
 7236

  
 5998


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> That's only a 5 string. Very common nowadays. My daughter uses a 4 or 5 depending on the song. Some custom mades are 7 or 8 strings.




Hello aqsw...

Yes, I see the 5 string bass he played. But he also played this 7 string bass much of the time. And he worked synthesizers with foot controls in the show we saw. 
He was really excellent, and fun, he bantered a lot, with Lee R and Mike Stern.

The drummer was also outstanding.

You can see the 7 string bass he plays here, and to his left, the 5 string you saw (closer to the beginning of the video):



​
--JV--


----------



## UntilThen

All 4 of them are amazing musicians. I never tire of watching that video. Haha even a drum solo at the end. Very accomplished drummer.


----------



## Suuup

How long time, after I turn of the Elise, should I wait to take out the tubes?


----------



## mordy

Hi,

Finally got back my toolbar after "sju sorger och atta bedrovelser" (Oskari, Mr X or Suuup can translate).

About the socket savers: I find it easier to insert and pull out the tubes from the socket savers than the sockets in the amp. They also save on wear to the original sockets. Another factor that is very important to me is that they act as insulators and lower the heat radiated to the amp from the tubes, especially from the power tubes; the amp runs cooler.

Ordered the gold plated adapters for the ECC31 type tubes to 6SN7 from seller Suzier. It seems that one is defective internally. After a week developed a bad connection. When I complained they sent out another one right away, but I have not received it yet. Suzier is a new seller, and I got a bargain price of $12 incl shipping for a pair. 

Running the mighty Sylvania minis with 6AS7GA tubes - very pleasant results. Does anybody run Sylvania/GE 6AS7GA as power tubes? I need confirmation that they a GREAT power tubes lol......

Have some trouble still posting pictures, but when I get it sorted out I am going to show how to make the sub miniature usable in the Elise.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,

This is a very good question. The Little Dot manual says to wait 5-10 minutes until the capacitors discharge. With the Little Dot we used to wait until the sound went away after shutting off - took maybe 45 seconds.

The Elise shuts the sound off right away when you turn it off. So I would say to wait until the tubes cool off, at least so that you don't burn your fingers lol!.

I am sure people have better and more scientific answers...


----------



## UntilThen

I once absentmindedly pull out a driver tube before I power off the amp and I was horrified. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Fortunately nothing happened. Don't ever do this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wait for it to cool down is the best answer.
  
 Mordy my views on GE 6AS7GA found on page 3.


----------



## UntilThen

I have bionic fingers. I use a cloth.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

I do want to point out that the 6AS7GA that you reviewed on page 3 is not the same tube that I am writing about. The one you reviewed is a later version from the 70's which I also have.

However, the version I use is from the late 50's -early 60's when made by GE, and 60's-70's when made by Sylvania. (The Sylvania is a also relabeled RCA). It seems to me that the Sylvanias all have grey bakelite bases.

This version is even better sounding than the later one IMHO. I am expecting some Sylvania 6AS7GA with silver color rods and will compare them to the copper rods I have. I am partial to copper rods, but will try to give an honest evaluation when they arrive. If they are just as good, we have $3-5 excellent power tubes.

Even though these tubes resemble the 6080 tubes, I don't think that they are identical to the 6AS7GA, and they sound different and better to me.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I do want to point out that the 6AS7GA that you reviewed on page 3 is not the same tube that I am writing about. The one you reviewed is a later version from the 70's which I also have.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds interesting! Will be looking forward to your assessment.


----------



## mordy

This picture shows the Sylvania 7963 sub miniature tube flanked by a Sylvania 6AS7GA tube. This combination sounds very good and is very enjoyable.


----------



## UntilThen

Gotcha Mordy. When I first started I was recommended the GE 6AS7GA rebranded HP. They look much older. They are unlike the Parts Express ones I review in page 3. I missed the HP in auction because at that time I don't know how they perform and wasn't prepared to bid higher. We will await your evaluation.

Presently I have a lot of power tubes to rotate and keep me happy.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought this pair of GE 6AS7G quite a while ago. Came with original boxes. Haven't got a clue if they are RCA rebranded GE or GE original. What caught my attention was that these 2 tubes are very different physically. The most obvious is that the left tube is taller, has copper rods and 2 bottom rectangular getters while the one on the right is shorter, has silver rods and 2 top rectangular getters. They are the most unlikely twins. More importantly do they sound different from each other? No. I listen hard but I can't pick out any differences. They sound like RCA 6AS7G which I also have a pair. A pity though because I like copper rods and expect it to sound better but it's not the case here.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I examine the GE with copper rod and my Chatham 6AS7G and they are so similar in construction except for the protective fins below the 2nd mica. I better listen again. Maybe it's a Chatham 6AS7G masquerading as GE.
  
 GE 6AS7G on the left and Chatham 6AS7G on the right. See the similarities except for the fins on the GE.
  
*Ok they don't sound the same. Chatham lives up to it's hype. There's almost reverb when listening to Leonard Cohen 'It's My Secret Life'. The mid bass is felt in my chest and Leonard's voice is as rich and warm as sunset glow.*


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Are there any identifying codes on the GE tubes?


----------



## MIKELAP

Got a question for you guys that Lord Raven brought up in a 6AS7G CHATHAM  what does the CAHG mean my memory fails me


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Are there any identifying codes on the GE tubes?


 
 With silver rod - 3-09  188-4
 With copper rod - 4-09  188-5


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Got a question for you guys that Lord Raven brought up in a 6AS7G CHATHAM  what does the CAHG mean my memory fails me


 
 They are just manufacturers codes:-
  
 CAHG Chatham
 CBNQ Bomac
 CBOP Lewis and Kaufman
 CCTH Metcom
 CDR General Electronics
 CG General Electric
 CFT Federal
 CHS Sylvania
 CHY Hytron
 CIM Eimac
 CKR Ken-Rad
 CNU National Union
 CQN Slater
 CRC RCA
 CRP Raytheon
 CS Sperry
 CTL Tung Sol
 CUE United Electronics
 CW Western Electric
 CWL Westinghouse


----------



## hpamdr

mikelap said:


> Got a question for you guys that Lord Raven brought up in a 6AS7G CHATHAM  what does the CAHG mean my memory fails me


 
  
 CAHG is the CHATHAM brand when compliant to  _Joint Army Navy _specification/numbering.
  
 JAN-*CAHG*-6AS7G


----------



## agnostic1er

Hi guys,
  
 My stock Svetlanas have a more extended frequency range than my 6080 Sylvanias but have a little bit too much upper-treble level for my taste and setup; thus I'm eventually searching for power tubes (so 6AS7G or specified manufacturer alternatives) having the most powerful sub-bass range and the smoothest upper-treble.
 Any ideas?
 Thanks!


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Got a question for you guys that Lord Raven brought up in a 6AS7G CHATHAM  what does the CAHG mean my memory fails me
> ...


 
  


untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Got a question for you guys that Lord Raven brought up in a 6AS7G CHATHAM  what does the CAHG mean my memory fails me
> ...


 
  
  


hpamdr said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Got a question for you guys that Lord Raven brought up in a 6AS7G CHATHAM  what does the CAHG mean my memory fails me
> ...


 
 Thanks couldnt find that list .


----------



## UntilThen

agnostic1er said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My stock Svetlanas have a more extended frequency range than my 6080 Sylvanias but have a little bit too much upper-treble level for my taste and setup; thus I'm eventually searching for power tubes (so 6AS7G or specified manufacturer alternatives) having the most powerful sub-bass range and the smoothest upper-treble.
> Any ideas?
> Thanks!


 

 Don't know about the smoothest upper-treble but the most powerful sub-bass range IMO is the Tung Sol 5998.
  
 I think you can achieve what you want with ecc31/chatham 6as7g.


----------



## UntilThen

And this is how they make a beautiful set of tubes or valves or whatever you want to call it.


----------



## Lord Raven

I just won a 5998 Tung Sol in bidding and lost the other tube. Don't know what to do. I wanted a pair. Is there a way to not buy it now? I hate bidding, don't know how people outbid you on the last minute/second.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL Raven. Hey what's wrong with one. You can always buy another later. You can't back out now or you'll get a bad review from seller.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> LOL Raven. Hey what's wrong with one. You can always buy another later. You can't back out now or you'll get a bad review from seller.




I know the seller and have written to him, if he can help me with a pair or not it's upto him. Actually, I wanted both but lost one. I cannot wait for another for like ages.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I know the seller and have written to him, if he can help me with a pair or not it's upto him. Actually, I wanted both but lost one. I cannot wait for another for like ages.


 
 I bought 1 6N7G, but have nothing to pair it with. I've been scouring Ebay for a good deal for weeks!


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup in the meantime you can pair it with your ecc31. It should work.


----------



## Lord Raven

I don't want to wait for weeks :/ That's terrible choice on my part to bid for a single tube, it could be a pair if I had won both.


----------



## aqsw

A pic of my daughters 4 string. Last three pictures

http://www.dingwallguitars.com/basses/super-j-series/super-j-custom-exotic/custom-exotic-gallery/#


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup in the meantime you can pair it with your ecc31. It should work.


 
 I've tried, but I need the new adapters before making a fair comparison.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Suuup in the meantime you can pair it with your ecc31. It should work.




I find that the 6N7G has more gain than an ECC31, for this reason, they do not pair well.

The FDD20 on the other hand....

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> A pic of my daughters 4 string. Last three pictures
> 
> http://www.dingwallguitars.com/basses/super-j-series/super-j-custom-exotic/custom-exotic-gallery/#




It's beautiful, aqsw!!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I bought 1 6N7G, but have nothing to pair it with. I've been scouring Ebay for a good deal for weeks!




Plenty of singles avail in the USA:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-1ea-Silvertone-6N7-G-engraved-base-tstd-amp-radio-amplifier-ham-/111798152185

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delco-6N7G-Twin-Triode-Power-Amp-tube-Hickok-TV7B-tested-59-60-min-38-38-/271841624886

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KEN-RAD-6N7G-6N7-Vacuum-Tube-Audio-Tested-Strong-/262082865416

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philco-USA-6N7G-Black-Round-Plate-D-Foil-Get-Engraved-Base-ST-Vacuum-Tube-94-97-/121791445703

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ken-Rad-USA-6N7G-2-Black-Box-Smoked-Glass-ST-Vacuum-Tube-90-77-/151853206243

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-USA-6N7G-2-Black-Round-Smooth-Plate-Bottom-D-Foil-Get-ST-Vacuum-Tube-80-84-/121791452234

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Philco-USA-6N7G-Black-Round-Plate-D-Foil-Get-Engraved-Base-ST-Vacuum-Tube-/121793809148

Have bought from Viva Tubes...just as described and shipped quickly.

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Plenty of singles avail in the USA:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-1ea-Silvertone-6N7-G-engraved-base-tstd-amp-radio-amplifier-ham-/111798152185
> 
> ...


 
 I'm aware, but I can't import from the US. If it's over 80 DKK, which is about 12 USD, I have to pay 20 $ extra + 25%. So if a tube costs 15 $ (this includes shipping) I have to pay around 40 $ for it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I'm aware, but I can't import from the US. If it's over 80 DKK, which is about 12 USD, I have to pay 20 $ extra + 25%. So if a tube costs 15 $ (this includes shipping) I have to pay around 40 $ for it.




Oh I see!!!

Did you have to pay a duty on the tube I sent you?

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Oh I see!!!
> 
> Did you have to pay a duty on the tube I sent you?
> 
> .


 
 Nop, somtimes I get lucky. 
 I once ordered a new screen for my phone, cost me about 50 $ on Ebay. When I received it, I noticed the package said 10 $, which is probably why it got through duty.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Working on a nicer FDD20 adapter...here the little FDD20 'base flippers' have a drop of solder added, prior to adding wires between here and the new octal base:


​

Hope this works 

.


----------



## mordy

For all you guys who only have one tube of something: PATIENCE

OK, so I have one 5998, and one Delco 6N7G. There is no problem getting another one, but I have this self imposed rule of not paying crazy money for a tube, which makes it more difficult.

Suup: R u saying that anything over $12 entails import duties and taxes? If so, what happens if u buy something for less than $12?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> For all you guys who only have one tube of something: PATIENCE




Mordy loves to remind us of patience! 
And he is right. My 5998 pair that did not seem to not like a lot of my tubes, when I first popped them in, have now come around, and like all, save for the FDD20/ECC31 combo. 

I have a number of single tube specimen, as well.
PATIENCE, a mate will be located for them, when it's least expected. 

.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Working on a nicer FDD20 adapter...here the little FDD20 'base flippers' have a drop of solder added, prior to adding wires between here and the new octal base:
> ​
> 
> Hope this works
> ...


 
  
 Coming along nicely, JV...things start getting _very_ interesting soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...just take your time, and remember...check, check and check again your routing.
  
 And when you're done (and all is well!), give yourself a big pat on the back...plus a _large_ glass of your favourite tipple - you'll have earned it. And if all is not _quite_ well, make it a VERY large one..._*you'll NEED it, lol!!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Wishing you all the best,
 CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Coming along nicely, JV...things start getting _very_ interesting soon... ...just take your time, and remember...check, check and check again your routing.
> 
> And when you're done (and all is well!), give yourself a big pat on the back...plus a _large_ glass of your favourite tipple - you'll have earned it. And if all is not _quite_ well, make it a VERY large one..._*you'll NEED it, lol!!!*_   ...
> 
> ...




Thanks H1...

And for others who want to try and make custom adapters...may I suggest you watch this soldering instructional video, in it's entirety (if your the least bit rusty at soldering, like me):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s

I am headed to the store to buy soldering flux paste. 

.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> For all you guys who only have one tube of something: PATIENCE
> 
> OK, so I have one 5998, and one Delco 6N7G. There is no problem getting another one, but I have this self imposed rule of not paying crazy money for a tube, which makes it more difficult.
> 
> Suup: R u saying that anything over $12 entails import duties and taxes? If so, what happens if u buy something for less than $12?



Yes. If the order is less than 80 DKK, which is about 12 USD, there is no extra charge.


----------



## agnostic1er

untilthen said:


> Don't know about the smoothest upper-treble but the most powerful sub-bass range IMO is the Tung Sol 5998.
> 
> I think you can achieve what you want with ecc31/chatham 6as7g.


 
 Thanks Until for your advise; however TS 5998 seem to be always pricey and I don't want to go with adapters (ECC31)...


----------



## UntilThen

*Eye witness info from GEC*
  
 If you're interested in GEC/MOV/OSRAM here are some correspondences between an ex employee who work in the plant and a fellow enthusiast. I find it an interesting insight from a person who is actually involved.
  
 This quote should make those of you who own one of this tubes happy...
  
_*All MOV/GEC valves were individually tested. Not 10% tested like most other makers at that time.*_
  
 and the link:-
  
http://forum.marstran.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=130


----------



## UntilThen

agnostic1er said:


> Thanks Until for your advise; however TS 5998 seem to be always pricey and I don't want to go with adapters (ECC31)...


 

 My pleasure agnostic1er. A month ago I would have sworn that 5998 is a must but now having heard ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080, I've changed my mind.
  
 I really think that everyone should sample a ECC31 at some point in their tube adventure. Adapters are never a problem. It's the music...on further burn in the ECC31 clearly pulls ahead of my Philco 6N7G.


----------



## agnostic1er

untilthen said:


> My pleasure agnostic1er. A month ago I would have sworn that 5998 is a must but now having heard ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080, I've changed my mind.
> 
> I really think that everyone should sample a ECC31 at some point in their tube adventure. Adapters are never a problem. It's the music...on further burn in the ECC31 clearly pulls ahead of my Philco 6N7G.


 
 What's the main sonic difference between ECC31 and good 6N8S like my Melz? (if you never heard Melz ones, I would say they are nicely dynamical and detailed, with an extended fr range, both on trebles and sub-bass)


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I've never heard Melz. Nep has the Melz and for some reasons he has forgotten about it and bought 2 pairs of ECC31. That is very telling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My best 6SN7s are probably the Sylvania Gold 6SN7WGT and also the 7N7 Raytheon. 7N7 are Sylvania made...the early Sylvanias and they sound sweet.
  
 However none of these are close to the ECC31 according to my ears.
  
 ECC31 ...my impressions. You get a wall of sound coming at you and you feel closer to the music. Some says vocals are a bit recessed which I cannot understand why. I think that the mid range and vocals are where it shines. However that's not fair to the sub bass it produce. It has subterranean reach and impact. I don't like sharp trebles but I find the ECC31 high notes smooth and musical.
  
 Also on my HE560, I prefer ECC31/5998. I think Nep does as well with his HD800. It provides the lift in bass and across the FR spectrum. The HE560 now has the oomph.
  
 I believe the Melz are good otherwise Feliks Audio wouldn't be offering them as upgrade options. I would like to try a pair at some point.


----------



## JazzVinyl

agnostic1er said:


> Thanks Until for your advise; however TS 5998 seem to be always pricey and I don't want to go with adapters (ECC31)...




I found the weakest spot in the Elise as delivered, was the Russian powers.

If you don't want to use adapters for drivers but want superb, top notch sound, then my suggestion would be 5998's (I know they are pricey, but they are really great tubes) and a pair of 60's or 50's Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes.

You'll be very pleased with that combo, I would think.

.


----------



## UntilThen

Randy's voice is sweet and very touching. This is an emotional song. Imagine yourself alone on a rainy night, walking, thinking of the one you love.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Randy's voice is sweet and very touching. This is an emotional song. Imagine yourself alone on a rainy night, walking, thinking of the one you love.




Indeed, this was early in Randy's career. I have it on Vinyl and it's a superb recording.

Funny to the the little white girl as the song plays...expected to see Randy (who of course is black).

Here she is on the album cover that I have:



​

--JV--
.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is a band I love:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXs5dMOJshc[/VIDEO]

Bass Clarinet...!!!

--JV--


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Funny to the the little white girl as the song plays...expected to see Randy (who of course is black).


 
 Lol JV. There's another video of her young and sweet. I prefer the Live in Zagreb version best. I chose this picture because it shows a girl alone in the rain.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Lol JV. There's another video of her young and sweet. I prefer the Live in Zagreb version best. I chose this picture because it shows a girl alone in the rain.




No problem...I saw Randy a couple of times, way back when. When I hear her, I think back, and see her 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is quite a treat via Elise as well:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPYgs_c-3nQ[/VIDEO]

.


----------



## UntilThen

What the....still no status change on my Elise. Is she coming by ship or plane? 
  
 H1 you're right. It's excruciatingly painful waiting for this amp. I don't think I was as excited as waiting on my customised car sound system or my new Specialized carbon racing bike.


----------



## UntilThen

JV...this is genius. Bob Dylan's 'Knocking on Heaven's Door' is simplicity in splendour. 4 chords and you've all the musicians singing this song through the years. This is a cover btw but very good.
  
 Mama take this tube amp off me...I can't handle it anymore.......


----------



## UntilThen

OMG Elise has arrived in Sydney ...somewhere


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> OMG Elise has arrived in Sydney ...somewhere




CONGRATS!!! Elise SOON!!! CONGRATS!!! 




​
.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV...this is genius. Bob Dylan's 'Knocking on Heaven's Door' is simplicity in splendour. 4 chords and you've all the musicians singing this song through the years. This is a cover btw but very good.
> 
> Mama take this tube amp off me...I can't handle it anymore.......





Yes, I have this original LP, the sound quality on the LP is absolutely stunning! 
I like the whole LP, play this, and the Neil Young/Stephen Stills: "Long May You Run" often...both VERY NICE albums, with lots of beautiful acoustic guitar 

.


----------



## UntilThen

I am so excited at Elise arrival in Australia but your mention of Neil Young.....I just have to play you another of my favourite. Why don't they have these talents anymore.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​

No sleep for *UT*, soon ​
.


----------



## mordy

Taking a break from critical listening. Listened to some of the selections that were posted. Nice music, well recorded, but my taste runs different. Today is Jug Band Day....

Here is one favorite recording - Cold Morning Shout with a couple playing acoustic guitar so well together that they seem wired. Did you ever hear of Craig Ventresco?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ_vGVOlMKs

Adding another recording. At around 2:20 there is a cheek-o-meter solo: Find out which "instrument"....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbzF2ykblHA

And finally, Memphis Smackdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGjtFD1_Io


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice Mordy. That song is made for 2 guitars and the couple really plays it well. Critical listening is tiring. I have also switched off and just listen to music for a change.
  
 My Italian tubes tracking are in Italian !!! I don't understand a word. 'Avvio della spedizione' what is it?


----------



## mordy

Added two more recordings to the previous post - the last one will make you laugh.

Translation - no problem. Use Google Translate (free).

Showing results for google translate

Search Results

 Avvio della spedizione 

Start shipment


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Taking a break from critical listening. Listened to some of the selections that were posted. Nice music, well recorded, but my taste runs different. Today is Jug Band Day....
> 
> Here is one favorite recording - Cold Morning Shout with a couple playing acoustic guitar so well together that they seem wired. Did you ever hear of Craig Ventresco?




Hello Mordy 

The first link with the two guitar players...very nice!

And the cheek playin' fellow...hahaha..having a great time, they were.

I am enjoying the magic of C3gS's with the 5998's!! Wow, do they ever pair well, together!
My earlier criticism of the metallic treble from C3g is gone with the 5998's. Must have been the Russian default power tubes that didn't understand the C3g "way of things". 

This combo is fantastic with the air and space around instruments, exact placement of instruments in a wide and deep sound stage.

It's quite wonderful.

Hope your computer problems have subsided.

See Ya...


----------



## UntilThen

*Sennheiser HD800s*
  
 
  
 Now it's going to be tough choosing between HD800s and T1 G2.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> I am so excited at Elise arrival in Australia but your mention of Neil Young.....I just have to play you another of my favourite. Why don't they have these talents anymore.




 Once saw this guy front row center very good show and love the DÉJÀ VU album of the time he was with CROSBY, STILLS, NASH, & YOUNG great album .Were the lucky ones we witnessed all that great music from the 50's 60's and 70's


----------



## UntilThen

Great album Mike. I love that band. The golden era and we're still enjoying those music today.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Once saw this guy front row center very good show and love the DÉJÀ VU album of the time he was with CROSBY, STILLS, NASH, & YOUNG great album .Were the lucky ones we witnessed all that great music from the 50's 60's and 70's




I saw Neil Young and Crazy Horse do the "Rust Never Sleeps" show at Wm and Mary Hall, Williamsburg, VA - many years ago.

Great show, but VASTLY TOO LOUD. Remember my ears ringing very loudly, for a almost a week.
It's a wonder any of these people have any hearing left at all.

,


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> OMG Elise has arrived in Sydney ...somewhere


 
  
 Great news, UT...soon you'll be able to answer criticism from the regrettably so-called "other faction" - you're in for some sleepless nights, methinks...but FUN ones, lol! CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Hi H1, the excitement is building. I see now the 'package' is in a Post Office near my place at 3:13am. My guess is that it will arrive this morning or at the latest tomorrow. It has been a long journey so far. I think of how it started. Elise is almost approaching her one year anniversary. For me the real test is on the first listen. I need to know if the magic is there. I'm so used to my DV336se now. There will be no owner's euphoria for me. It's either there or not there. Such is my apprehension. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you hear my scream from down under it could mean one of 2 things. I'm overjoyed or crushed !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 It's confirmed. Automated tracking via email has told me that the 'package' is due for delivery today.


----------



## MIKELAP

oskari said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Received a pair of Mazda 6N7G tubes thanks to a tip from Gibosi. Very scant information is available for this brand.
> ...


 
 Regarding the Mazda 6n7g ,mordy got this from Brent Jesse regarding the meaning of MO he seems to think it means MARCONI OSRAM here's the e-mail


----------



## UntilThen

These Mazdas are coming my way. I love those wings.


----------



## UntilThen

*Elise is here*. Number #22    Catch 22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Certificate of authenticity and sign by Henryk Feliks the master designer himself. Alright back later for the scream.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *Elise is here*. Number #22    Catch 22 :bigsmile_face:
> Certificate of authenticity and sign by Henryk Feliks the master designer himself. Alright back later for the scream.




WOO-HOO!!!

CONGRATS on #22!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> *Elise is here*. Number #22    Catch 22
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations! Finally it is here!
  
 Edit: God damn it, JV beat me to it by 23 seconds..


----------



## UntilThen

*Elise 1st impressions*


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> *Elise 1st impressions*


 
 You look like me a few weeks ago.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> *Elise is here*. Number #22    Catch 22
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is so awesome man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm super excited to get my Elise too.  I have a bit more waiting to do.  I'm sure it will be well worth it.


----------



## UntilThen

*Elise initial impressions*
  
 Jerick you have no idea. I'm speechless now. I'm running with a pair of Lorenz C3gs and Tung Sol 5998. Elise has more slam and bass weight than my DV336se with these tubes !!!
  
 If I ever doubted that she wouldn't sound like a tube amp, I'm ever so wrong. With my favourite tracks now playing, Elise is everything that I wanted in a tube amp and didn't know about until now. Forget that I rave about the DV in the past. Elise is wayyyyyyyyyy better. How much I can't put a figure but it's so muuuuuuuuuuucccch. This is the 1st time I've heard the C3gs and OMG .....buy these tubes RIGHT NOW. Maybe it's a combination of Elise and C3gs and 5998.
  
 I need to gather my thoughts. Sorry I'm lost in music right now.....
  
 HE560 the planar magnetic has never sounded so good. Elise is driving this headphone with EASE. HE560 is 35ohms and 90db low efficiency....not a problem with Elise.


----------



## agnostic1er

untilthen said:


> Ok I've never heard Melz. Nep has the Melz and for some reasons he has forgotten about it and bought 2 pairs of ECC31. That is very telling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Umhhh... You are good to push Felik's fans into tube and adapter's rolling LOL
 Is this item the right one to buy?:
 http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter-/191259510368?hash=item2c87f48660:g:3-UAAOSwMmBVvXRv


----------



## mordy

Hi Mikelap,

Many thanks for finding this information. The flip side is that the price just went up LOL!



Here are pictures of the Mazda tubes from the same seller on eBay. At the moment he is offering a quad for $300 incl shipping.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/4X-TUBE-MAZDA-6N7-ENGLAND-ARMY-NAVY-STTA-EAGLE-PAIR-IDENTICAL-LOGO-MILITARY-NOS-/262107316033?hash=item3d06d03f41:g:JeUAAOSw14xWLJFG

The second tube from the left shows the date III 8.

Very exciting to have a MOV tube (MO = Marconi-Osram [Valve]) which puts it into GEC 

territory.

Maybe it is safe to say now that this tube is on the level of the ECC31 - at least it has the pedigree!


----------



## agnostic1er

jazzvinyl said:


> I found the weakest spot in the Elise as delivered, was the Russian powers.
> 
> If you don't want to use adapters for drivers but want superb, top notch sound, then my suggestion would be 5998's (I know they are pricey, but they are really great tubes) and a pair of 60's or 50's Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes.
> 
> ...


 
 I own JAN Sylvanias 6SN7 WGTA and the Melz are a bit more dynamical and more powerful in the sub-bass range, so I prefer the later with my setup.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Congratulations to the #22! Just remember that you need some sleep to function lol!

My Elise is #9 but no certificate or serial #. 

Yesterday i heard a vocalist on my system - it was so real that I turned around to see who was there!

Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Mordy I'm so happy now I need to hug somebody, anybody. Who needs sleep now.
  
 One caution:- When I first started it up I have sound only on my left HP speaker. I was WORRIED. It turn out I didn't push the RCA cable fully in. Take note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Not the faintest hum. Dead silent on max volume with no music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This is the side of Elise you haven't seen. The underside. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 No more underside photos with due respect to the good folks who created this marvel.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> 
> Many thanks for finding this information. The flip side is that the price just went up LOL!
> 
> ...


 
 Actually mordy price did not go up its the same price i paid unless yours were cheaper


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Mikelap,
> ...


 
 Oops to much tube rolling im confused i was thinking of the NR73 /1285 tubes WOW what an increase


----------



## UntilThen

I paid $99 for my pair of Mazda. Keep saying good things about it and see the price climb higher LOL.


----------



## MIKELAP

$75.00 for a quad damm lucky


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> I paid $99 for my pair of Mazda. Keep saying good things about it and see the price climb higher LOL.


 
 And gess what UT, we all know why this guy do not want to ship anything to Australia anymore....


----------



## MIKELAP

Ordered a couple pairs of RCA 6N7G will see how they compare to the others


----------



## mordy

Hi Mikelap,

Yes, I know the symptoms of excessive tube rolling, such as lack of sleep and forgetting to use the right adapters lol......

What's left in identifying the Mazda tubes is the date (III 8) and country of origin. Marconi Osram, manufactured for the French Air Force March 1948 at the Shaw factory in Lancashire, UK?

(Took the clues from Sherlock Holmes - elementary, eh?)


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> 
> Yes, I know the symptoms of excessive tube rolling, such as lack of sleep and forgetting to use the right adapters lol......
> 
> ...


 
 I also asked  Brent Jesse about the date he should get back to me on that .Like that show but Jeremy Brett is the best Sherlock Holmes loved the series


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> *Elise initial impressions*
> 
> Jerick you have no idea. I'm speechless now. I'm running with a pair of Lorenz C3gs and Tung Sol 5998. Elise has more slam and bass weight than my DV336se with these tubes !!!
> 
> ...


 

 Dude your making me drool.  Just a second while I pick my jaw up off the floor......


----------



## UntilThen

Elise has been playing for more than an hour now. With the volume at 11 o'clock using HE560, I felt the top metal plates and they are barely warm. Heat dissipation is way better than the DV definitely.
  
 Listening to Leonard Cohen 'In my secret life' now and it's warm and lush on my HE560. Incredible. HE560 has bright characteristics to me but now it's sounding how I like it....warm and lush. Who would have thought that bass is now impactful and extends deep with this headphone. This is now sounding like my HD650 but with the added details especially in the highs.
  
 With my HD650 I won't go above 9 o'clock because it would be too loud.
  
 Goodness gracious I'm hearing notes now I haven't heard before on the DV336se.
  
 I haven't even touch the stock tubes LOL.
  
 The stock tubes looks nice though. The Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue and Svetlana 6H13C looks shiny and brand new. I'm not sure why they are numbered though and was told in the instructions to insert into the numbered slots as well. I'll try that...maybe greater magic will happen.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Elise has been playing for more than an hour now. With the volume at 11 o'clock using HE560, I felt the top metal plates and they are barely warm. Heat dissipation is way better than the DV definitely.
> 
> Listening to Leonard Cohen 'In my secret life' now and it's warm and lush on my HE560. Incredible. HE560 has bright characteristics to me but now it's sounding how I like it....warm and lush. Who would have thought that bass is now impactful and extends deep with this headphone. This is now sounding like my HD650 but with the added details especially in the highs.
> 
> ...


 
 On Jadis amplifier it is the same, the tubes are numbered because the Quality control and latest listening test have been done using this exact placement !  And I'm still waiting......


----------



## UntilThen

This is incredible. She's getting better by the minute. The notes have more authority now. Things are tightening up and it's been less than 2 hours. I'm seeing and hearing Elise morphing before my eyes and ears.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> This is incredible. She's getting better by the minute. The notes have more authority now. Things are tightening up and it's been less than 2 hours. I'm seeing and hearing Elise morphing before my eyes and ears.


----------



## UntilThen

Greater soundstaging. Imaging is spot on. Decay is spot on. Fast and rhythmic, Elise has poise and control. Mid range is sweet and engaging. Bass hits hard and goes deep. You hear and feel it at the same time. There's no mistaking the tube amp sound which is what I love.
  
 I felt that HE560 mate very well with Elise. Switching over to HD650, I'm astonished just how good it sound as well. I have no doubt Elise will pair beautifully with any of the TOTL headphones out there, such as HD800, T1, LCDs, etc.
  
 See ya later...it's lunch break.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

I remember my initial reaction to the Elise: Whereas the heavily modded Little Dot was playing, the Elise was singing!

And as hypnos1 and many others have said- the Elise just gets better and better with time - up to around 150 hours of break in are needed.

And then you start to get used to the New Normal - sensational with the right tubes....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Greater soundstaging. Imaging is spot on. Decay is spot on. Fast and rhythmic, Elise has poise and control. Mid range is sweet and engaging. Bass hits hard and goes deep. You hear and feel it at the same time. There's no mistaking the tube amp sound which is what I love.




You just described the attributes of our good friends:

Mr 'C'
Mr '3'
and
Mr 'g'

​
    ​
.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes JV I wanted my first impression of Elise to be good. So I took a punt on the C3gs and 5998 and it prove to be a winner. These tubes are already burn in. In the weeks ahead I'll listen to other combinations but for now this is REALLY good. Once again my thanks to Colin for making this possible. He made the adapters and I remember very early on he was ecstatic about the C3gs. Now I can see why he was excited about them.
  
 Burn in will only see Elise pull ahead no doubt about that. My own experience in the past with my home sound system and car sound systems have shown me that. However I do believe that an initial listen will give you a glimpse of what's in store. In this case I had a real glimpse of Elise and she sparkles.


----------



## UntilThen

Some pictures...
  
 The power coating on the casing has a semi smooth feel and it's very well done. The RCA terminals are very good quality. I am surprised that Elise is not as heavy as I thought she would be.
  
 Those sockets are flushed with the surface and have no problems with wider 6080. They also seem good quality and securely attached.

  
 My only wish is that the front panel is semi-glossy and doesn't attract dust and that the volume knob is the same bronze colour and material as the Feliks Audio logo on the top.

  
 Depth of DV and Elise is the same and they use the same power and driver tubes


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Congratulations on your long-awaited reception of the Elise, UT. I am happy to hear you are enjoying the amp. I really wish someone with a 339 could compare the two. 
 Do you notice a difference in perceived speed and transient response between the 336 and the Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

LJ you're here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must thank you that today I'm the owner of an Elise tube amp. If you send me your amp I'll do a comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes Elise is definitely more agile and athletic. The transient response of Elise is superb. Her ability to start and stop when the sound going into her start and stop is uncanny. It is precise. HE560 sounds exactly as Dr Fang intended it to sound. Listening to Dire Straits 'Money For Nothing' is a revelation.
  
 Now you should buy Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

Many Congratulations UT, finally good things happened  All impressions were true right? Mine is number 13 and impresses me everyday and night even though I have nothing to roll or fancy planner magnetic headphones to play with haha This thread is becoming a bank breaking place  I just checked those Mazda 6N7 tube and it is gone higher but I'll not buy anything else until my first tubes ECC31 plus 5998 arrive at my doorstep, if the magic is confirmed only then I'll go higher in the tube rolling business  Already spent more than Elise to make it sound greater haha 

For those who are waiting for their Elise, be patient. Hand crafted stuff takes time in the oven  Goodluck everybody, I'm off to spending a long day with Elise. While I patiently wait for my tube's arrival.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Raven. You did the right thing buying the ECC31 and 5998. They may well be all you need seeing you're going to use a HD600. I think it will be just perfect. When you listen to Beethoven 5th Symphony be prepared to be blown out of your chair. Elise with those tubes will show your Geek a clean pair of heels. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Darn Raven, these C3gs with 5998 sounds so good I think you should try them too.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Thanks Raven. You did the right thing buying the ECC31 and 5998. They may well be all you need seeing you're going to use a HD600. I think it will be just perfect. When you listen to Beethoven 5th Symphony be prepared to be blown out of your chair. Elise with those tubes will show your Geek a clean pair of heels.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL I tried so hard to resist C3G Siemens  Don't drag me back into it. I might try if someone is tired of his adapters and C3G-S tubes haha 
  
 I am damn sure that after the ECC31/5998 combo, all I would need is a better pair of headphones  And all my money should go there first..
  
 Right now I am going through this test posted online, Tidal, Sound Cloud, Spotify and everything is such a big online streaming mess that I never really trust but when you want to instantly play a song, it works just fine. However, the question is, do we really hear the difference? Link I will try it later today and share my experience


----------



## UntilThen

Raven there's no escaping the C3gs. It will titillate your senses. This thing is on steroids.
  
 If you are critical go with Tidal HiFi which is streaming at 16/44.1khz - CD quality. This is what I am using now. For casual listening, Spotify Premium at 320kbps is ok. Of course if you buy HD Tracks at 192khz you will get more juice. I have tried sample files at that resolution and it's not a myth. However as you say, Music Streaming is so convenient.
  
 There's no doubt that a new pair of headphones will bring the greatest improvement or lead you further down the rabbit hole. So what's it going to be? HD800s, Beyer T1g2, LCD4, HE1000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and when you get these you'll soon realise you need an expensive pair of headphone cables, USB cable, RCA interconnects, shielded power cord.


----------



## nephilim

Excellent news, UT! Your impressions match mine but I'm not as eloquent  You made me curious regarding the C3gs/5998 pairing. Will have to give it a chance soon. But first I have to wait for two 6n7g pairs and then for #11's maintenance in Poland. I tested the amp in a different environment with new electrical installation and it still hums.


----------



## UntilThen

Nep that's kind of sad to hear regarding the hum but I'm sure Lukasz will fix that. Mine is absolutely hum free or it that Humphrey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 2 6n7g pairs !!! Let me guess..you have the Fivre and Mazda tubes?
  
 Certainly check out the C3gs/5998 pairing. It's so good I haven't change the tubes the whole day.


----------



## UntilThen

Well finally I gave in to temptation and decided to swap out the C3gs for Philco 6N7G. I broke out into a big smile on the first note. It's going to take a while for me to articulate the differences in sound between C3g and 6N7G. Suffice to say I'm very please with 6N7G now as I was with C3g. Still using 5998 as power tubes.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven there's no escaping the C3gs. It will titillate your senses. This thing is on steroids.
> 
> If you are critical go with Tidal HiFi which is streaming at 16/44.1khz - CD quality. This is what I am using now. For casual listening, Spotify Premium at 320kbps is ok. Of course if you buy HD Tracks at 192khz you will get more juice. I have tried sample files at that resolution and it's not a myth. However as you say, Music Streaming is so convenient.
> 
> ...


 
 LOL  That is insane, you know I started in car audio from a simple pair of (probably fake at that time) Kenwood 6x9 speakers in the back parcel and a Sony head unit and moved all the way up to Focal Utopia with everything in the system at Utopia level, I must say that I have a bad reputation haha
  
 All I have is 24/192 or higher, DSD  I am a firm believer that higher resolution sounds better, hands down.
  
 Next? I still did not receive my HD600. Chances are that I will self pick them up in January  Next headphones would be only decided after I give HD600 a fair chance to shine.
  
 What you have to do is, suggest the best tubes with Elise  So far I am on the band wagon of ECC31, it is going to arrive in early November. I picked up 5998 over A1834 as so many reviewer said 5998 is neutral and detailed while A1834 is warmer. 
  
 Cables, I got radioshack RCA and Belkin USB cables for my home audio listening, I believe in cables but I don't have any sort of noise that I should add extra on cables. Even if there is noise, it is inaudible, or not there at all. I don't want to break my bank on cables haha LH Labs 2G USB cable is 999 USD, who would want that?


----------



## Oskari

mikelap said:


> Regarding the Mazda 6n7g ,mordy got this from Brent Jesse regarding the meaning of MO he seems to think it means MARCONI OSRAM here's the e-mail


 
  
 Color me extremely skeptical.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> What you have to do is, suggest the best tubes with Elise  So far I am on the band wagon of ECC31, it is going to arrive in early November. I picked up 5998 over A1834 as so many reviewer said 5998 is neutral and detailed while A1834 is warmer.


 
 Raven I'll be honest with you. Best tubes in Elise can mean different things to different people. What you have to realise is we don't use the same gear besides Elise. Most of us have different headphones and DAC. However I think ECC31 is a safe choice.
  
 Never disregard the A1834. I have not heard it but I'm willing to trade you my brand new pair of 5998 with a pair of A1834 anytime any day, I'd even pay for shipping and buy you a cake.


----------



## UntilThen

After a day of listening with C3gs/5998 and 6n7g/5998, I swap to the stock tubes. I need to listen to these before my day is over.
  
 So if you ask, what can I expect getting Elise at $649 with the stock tubes, Tung Sol 6sn7gtb reissue and Svetlana 6h13c...
  
 My answer is, 'really marvellous'. Sure the C3gs/5998 sounds more exciting to me but the stock tubes is really good right out of the box. I really think Feliks Audio has done thorough testing with these tubes and numbered them accordingly. You could have been quite happy with these if you don't want to splash a lot more money. However buying a tube amp and not doing any tube rolling is like eating Spaghetti for every meal. You're missing out on the lobsters !!!


----------



## MIKELAP

oskari said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding the Mazda 6n7g ,mordy got this from Brent Jesse regarding the meaning of MO he seems to think it means MARCONI OSRAM here's the e-mail
> ...


. He also thinks year would be 1958 to be honest when looking at MO it doesn't strike me as being a manufacture abbreviation then again why do all the Mazda 6n7g we see all have the same markings? Would like to add that he thinks that the date code would of been somewhere else on the tube and that the 3 bars and the 8 is when the tube was stamped


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *Elise 1st impressions*


 
  
 ...So _this_ is the scream that woke me up, lol!...should have known...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> *Elise initial impressions*
> 
> Jerick you have no idea. I'm speechless now. I'm running with a pair of Lorenz C3gs and Tung Sol 5998. Elise has more slam and bass weight than my DV336se with these tubes !!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aaahhh UT - ye of little faith, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...never doubted her for a moment. And knew she would steal your heart also...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(not to mention keeping you from your sleep!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Am so glad she arrived safe and sound, and without gremlins...and that you must now agree with all the rest of us re her pedigree!!! You will now be listening to all your favourite music as if for the first time - which is pretty well true, since you will hear things you never knew existed in pieces you have heard _many_ times...and as mordy intimates, they will hit you from all (unexpected) directions! I am already excited _for_ you, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And that's great news for those with low-impedance cans - further confirmation of the Fairy Dust Feliks-Audio have sprinkled onto this amp...magical indeed, lol.
  
 I can only imagine how you must be feeling after such a long wait - and given the torture of anticipation, after all we have been saying during it. But as has been said _many_ times, the wait most certainly _is _worth it....CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps.  Glad you like the C3gs....


----------



## UntilThen

H1 day one with Elise will always be memorable for me. You're right I was so elated she arrived safe and sound, without a scratch and best of all no hum, no noise, except when I first started it I could only hear from one side. I was in panic mode there for a second. It's a loose RCA connection. Need to plug it in fully.
  
 Before I go any further, let me just say thanks for all your work and foresight in scouting out Feliks Audio and working with them in the creation of Elise. I have reread the first 100 pages of the old thread many times and I'm aware of the excitement and anticipation everyone must have felt when you finally received the first production unit of Elise. I believe you missed your Christmas turkey and forget your other presents because Elise arrived on Christmas Eve.
  
 I cannot fault Elise at all. Some minor criticisms but they are purely my opinion. For a start I would have prefer the start button in front. Each time I reach behind to shut it off I've to be careful not to burn my hand on the hot tubes. Also the headphone jack is too much at the left corner. I remember the 1st iteration. The jack was up at the top plate. I guess when they did the work around they didn't have much room to wiggle. Another thing is the weight. I would have prefer that Elise is heavier because when I plug in my headphone jack I sometimes move it. While everything is perfect aesthetically I felt the front panel and volume knob could have been a better finish. Lastly an optional balanced input/output would have been great. I'm being picky here because sonically where it counts, I'm really in love with how she sounds.
  
 Thanks and cheers.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  now for more day 2 torture 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I've an idea...how about some after market gold feet (with some felt on it, it will stop it moving) and matching gold volume knob.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Before I go any further, let me just say thanks for all your work and foresight in scouting out Feliks Audio and working with them in the creation of Elise.




Here here!

*Thank you* to hypnos1...!!!

.


----------



## nephilim

> Also the headphone jack is too much at the left corner. I remember the 1st iteration. The jack was up at the top plate. I guess when they did the work around they didn't have much room to wiggle. Another thing is the weight. I would have prefer that Elise is heavier because when I plug in my headphone jack I sometimes move it. While everything is perfect aesthetically I felt the front panel and volume knob could have been a better finish.


 
  
 I agree on the knob... Regarding the jack... I leave my cans plugged in all the time now. I listened carefully but there is no single sound during powering on and off.


----------



## UntilThen

My problem now is that the HE560 sounds better than the HD650 with Elise.....urrrgh. I thought that HD650 would be all I need but now having heard HE560 clarity and linearity with the added warm and lush I'm a bit sad to feel the HD650 lacking now. I didn't think I'll say that until now. Sob !!!
  
 Those of you with HD800 and T1 or even LCD are definitely in for a treat. Without comparing though, this is the best I have heard from HD650. I would have been satisfied if I didn't taste the forbidden fruit.


----------



## MIKELAP

Here's an interesting link to vacuum tube manuals                             https://archive.org/details/vacuumtubemanuals


----------



## Oskari

mikelap said:


> to be honest when looking at MO it doesn't strike me as being a manufacture abbreviation then again why do all the Mazda 6n7g we see all have the same markings?


 
  
 A large batch and a single military source can explain that. I think.
  


mikelap said:


> Would like to add that he thinks that the date code would of been somewhere else on the tube and that the 3 bars and the 8 is when the tube was stamped


 
  
 That's what I suspect as well.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow Mike this is a valuable source of information for tube fanatics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks !


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1 day one with Elise will always be memorable for me. You're right I was so elated she arrived safe and sound, without a scratch and best of all no hum, no noise, except when I first started it I could only hear from one side. I was in panic mode there for a second. It's a loose RCA connection. Need to plug it in fully.
> 
> Before I go any further, let me just say thanks for all your work and foresight in scouting out Feliks Audio and working with them in the creation of Elise. I have reread the first 100 pages of the old thread many times and I'm aware of the excitement and anticipation everyone must have felt when you finally received the first production unit of Elise. I believe you missed your Christmas turkey and forget your other presents because Elise arrived on Christmas Eve.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks UT...and JV (and _everyone!_) for your kind words. And yes, it was one of the (if not _the!_) best Christmas presents ever, lol!...and certainly the only one to bring continued joy and fascination for _so_ long - more so even than my beloved Volvo!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I must admit to a love/hate relationship with the matt, anodised black finish. When dusted, I think it looks really chic. And then I look at some sleek aluminium/silver units and think hmmm...nice also - and no need to worry about dust/fingermarks : black or silver?...silver or black?...*?????!!!!!  *And I personally hate _shiny_ black cases...unless it's highest quality Japanese laquer!
  
 So I should imagine it is a nightmarish decision for any amp manufacturer...you just ain't gonna please _everyone_, lol!
  
 And like neph, I keep the cans plugged in all the time - unless I'm at all suspicious of a new tube or adapter. But I can understand those who choose a more cautious approach...(and thank the Gods we managed to get the HP jack moved from the top, though!!).
  
 As for the feet...how about simply putting a little 'Blu-Tak', or similar, under the feet - will help prevent movement and give a bit more isolation. Better still...three large hardwood cone feet - which will _definitely_ need a bit of the 'Tak' to prevent movement, lol!!
  
 So methinks there will be much gnashing of teeth amongst the Feliks team when (if!) considering how to approach Elise MK2!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


nephilim said:


> Excellent news, UT! Your impressions match mine but I'm not as eloquent  You made me curious regarding the C3gs/5998 pairing. Will have to give it a chance soon. But first I have to wait for two 6n7g pairs and then for #11's maintenance in Poland. I tested the amp in a different environment with new electrical installation and it still hums.


 
  
 So sorry to hear you still have that hum, neph...I really hope they find the cause quickly, and return her to you ASAP....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(wouldn't want to be without mine for a _day_, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Lord Raven

I am probably getting this tube, which one is the best out of the four? Please suggest..


untilthen said:


> How's this for size.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jerick70

As my ship date for my Elise gets closer I'm starting to look for tubes to roll with the Elise.  I purchased a matched pair of Chatham 6AS7G Copper posts and I already have a pair of RCA 6AS7Gs.  What other tubes does everyone recommend?


----------



## Lord Raven

jerick70 said:


> As my ship date for my Elise gets closer I'm starting to look for tubes to roll with the Elise.  I purchased a matched pair of Chatham 6AS7G Copper posts and I already have a pair of RCA 6AS7Gs.  What other tubes does everyone recommend?


 
 Was it you who won them in the bidding? I so wanted those tubes :/ Damn it bro, you were fast  I almost broke my laptop that night...


----------



## UntilThen

Raven the one on the right definitely. Mullard 6080 / CV2984.

It sounds special besides the copper rod. JV has a pair too and he loves it.
I put this on par with the Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## jerick70

lord raven said:


> Was it you who won them in the bidding? I so wanted those tubes :/ Damn it bro, you were fast  I almost broke my laptop that night..


 
  
 If you're talking about Ebay, yes it was me.  Sorry dude I wanted them too my headphone craved them.....


----------



## UntilThen

Well done Jerick. Now get a nice pair of drivers. For this I have a few recommendations depending on your budget.

ECC31
C3g
7N7


----------



## Lord Raven

If there will ever be an Elise MK2,  I will pre-order that $%^* right away. And as for as aesthetics are concerned, I am pretty satisfied how it is made. Matt black does catch dust, but it pairs very well with my DAC, both sitting on the table looks BADASS, a friend called them complicated $%^@ haha I would probably stick something underneath to prevent slipping, and balance the feet as it is not well balanced on the table.
  
 Also, I don't know how to kill the blue LED light  The rear light does not really bother me but the blue light is like I am in a machine for eye examination. Rear red light gives a very good ambience effect during long exposure shots of Elise, check out my avatar 
  
  
 Can anyone confirm what is the safe working hours for this unit? I run it for like  4 to 5 hours daily, non stop. On idling I get some weird sounds coming out of the dark, I heard this is normal in a tube amplifier.
  
 Edit: I would have stacked my Elise over my DAC but the DAC is smaller in depth. Would have been a great sight


----------



## Lord Raven

jerick70 said:


> If you're talking about Ebay, yes it was me.  Sorry dude I wanted them too my headphone craved them.....


 
 Bro, I hope it was a good purchase for you. I am probably getting the Mullard 6080 in place of Chatham. I don't know when would I learn to bid on eBay.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven the one on the right definitely. Mullard 6080 / CV2984.
> 
> It sounds special besides the copper rod. JV has a pair too and he loves it.
> I put this on par with the Chatham 6AS7G.


 
 Does it also have copper rods? How to you identify these tubes?


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Well done Jerick. Now get a nice pair of drivers. For this I have a few recommendations depending on your budget.
> 
> ECC31
> C3g
> 7N7


 

 Thanks.  I saw the Cathams mentioned earlier in the thread. 
  
 The budget isn't important.  I want something that sounds incredible.  What are we talking price wise for each of these?


----------



## jerick70

lord raven said:


> Does it also have copper rods? How to you identify these tubes?


 

 No I don't think these have copper rods.  You look at the markings on the glass tube and look at the shape of the tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright give me a sec lol. Let me answer one at a time.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the Mullard CV2984 / 6080. CV is Common Valve designation for UK. It has copper rods.
  
 There are a few on eBay.
  
 This is one buy out example. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-X-MULLARD-CV2984-6080-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-MATCHED-YEAR-1969-/121767434336?hash=item1c59e79860:g:z3wAAOSw37tWAaPZ


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Jerick if you want the 'best' sounding tubes ...and they will cost.
  
Combo 1
 Siemens C3G driver tubes - this needs special adapters which is not available on eBay. Speak to Hypnos1. I'm not sure if he still wants to do it but hey he's a really nice, cool bloke.
 Tung Sol 5998 power tubes - these will set you back about $200 a pair at least and they're just nearly new.
  
Combo 2
 ECC31 with adapters - tubes by itself typically cost about $100 new each. Adapters are these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC32-ECC33-tube-converter-adapter-/201134198992?hash=item2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s
 Gold adapters are more expensive but better. There are black versions if you want to colour match with Elise.
 Chatham 6AS7G - you already have it. Can substitute Mullard CV2984 here.
  
 That's a very good start. Probably that's it I'd say.
  
 Stay tune while I await the arrival of the Mazda 6N7G. A few here reported that it is very good. There's also the Visseaux and Fivre 6N7G. Stay tune, we need more time with these.
  
 P/S The holy grail of power tubes is the GEC 6AS7G or also known as A1834. These will cost you many Christmas turkeys.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> This is the Mullard CV2984 / 6080. CV is Common Valve designation for UK. It has copper rods.
> 
> There are a few on eBay.
> 
> This is one buy out example. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-X-MULLARD-CV2984-6080-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-MATCHED-YEAR-1969-/121767434336?hash=item1c59e79860:g:z3wAAOSw37tWAaPZ




My bad on the copper rods @Lord Raven. UT obviously knows a lot more than I do about tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Also, I don't know how to kill the blue LED light  The rear light does not really bother me but the blue light is like I am in a machine for eye examination. Rear red light gives a very good ambience effect during long exposure shots of Elise, check out my avatar
> 
> 
> Can anyone confirm what is the safe working hours for this unit? I run it for like  4 to 5 hours daily, non stop. On idling I get some weird sounds coming out of the dark, I heard this is normal in a tube amplifier.


 
 Blue light is fine with me. I think it looks badass like you say LOL.
  
 I ran mine for 8 hours yesterday, not continuous but with some short stoppages. It is barely warm to the touch and certainly no noise at all from my unit.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mullard 6080's:

I bought a pair from the seller in Cyprus that is linked.
They do have copper rods.
They sound great, and do some 'extra magic' in the midrange area...

Highly recommended power tubes.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I ran mine for 8 hours yesterday, not continuous but with some short stoppages. It is barely warm to the touch and certainly no noise at all from my unit.




No HUM from the big transformer? I can always hear my transformer humming (not in the headphones, but outside when HP are not on, coming from the big transformer) and mine gets WAY hot. Not cool by any stretch.

Funny, have heard others say theirs runs cool, too....

.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Alright Jerick if you want the 'best' sounding tubes ...and they will cost.
> 
> Combo 1
> Siemens C3G driver tubes - this needs special adapters which is not available on eBay. Speak to Hypnos1. I'm not sure if he still wants to do it but hey he's a really nice, cool bloke.
> ...




Thanks UT. Do you recommend a certain brand of ECC31s?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> No HUM from the big transformer? I can always hear my transformer humming (not in the headphones, but outside when HP are not on, coming from the big transformer) and mine gets WAY hot. Not cool by any stretch.
> 
> Funny, have heard others say theirs runs cool, too....
> 
> .


 

 Hmm JV my big transformer is dead silent when I power it on with no HP plug in. This is after 10mins warm up. I can't even hear anything putting my ear near the transformer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I certainly hear no noise at all yesterday too.


----------



## Lord Raven

jerick70 said:


> Thanks UT. Do you recommend a certain brand of ECC31s?


 
 Type in ECC31 and there'll be several tubes out there like these.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> No HUM from the big transformer? I can always hear my transformer humming (not in the headphones, but outside when HP are not on, coming from the big transformer) and mine gets WAY hot. Not cool by any stretch.
> 
> Funny, have heard others say theirs runs cool, too....
> 
> .


 
 Damn it bro, you gotta watch out before you blow up something. Mine is quiet either. In the early days I would leave my Elise on overnight for several nights for burn it, it did not heat at all. Only luke warm LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Raven for the ECC31 picture postings. ECC31 has only one brand. It's made by Mullard. Besides ECC31, it can also be known as NR73 or CV1285. It will have a band of smoke glass across it's mid section.
  
 These are mine


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> I am probably getting this tube, which one is the best out of the four? Please suggest..
> 
> 
> untilthen said:
> ...


 
 This one is very popular in the 6as7 thread  http://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612                I would go with the G.E. 6AS7GA JAN i just suggested and i would try the Mullard but thats me


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Hmm JV my big transformer is dead silent when I power it on with no HP plug in. This is after 10mins warm up. I can't even hear anything putting my ear near the transformer. :bigsmile_face:  I certainly hear no noise at all yesterday too.




There is no schematic for Elise, but it could be that countries with mains that supply 240v...the transformer is smaller and has to do less wok than in countries where mains supply 120v...
 A larger transformer, in that case, is working harder, stepping UP the AC juice...?

My Elise is also by no means "light" and does not move when the HP cord is connected. Another indication that mine has a 2x size/weight transformer than ones delivered to countries whose mains supply 240v?

.


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm JV my big transformer is dead silent when I power it on with no HP plug in. This is after 10mins warm up. I can't even hear anything putting my ear near the transformer.
> ...


 
 How much does it weigh anyways ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> How much does it weigh anyways ?




13 pounds....

.


----------



## UntilThen

It is by no means light weight. According to the user manual it weighs 4.5kgs. I thought it felt heavier than the DV336se which is 5.5kgs Again it's not a big issue. Elise certainly feels solid and weight has no bearing on how it sounds.
  
 JV I have no clue on what impact different voltage has on weight and heat. I think Mordy uses fans on his which seems to indicate heat? On mine it's certainly no winter heater bummer LOL. Even putting my hand on the transformer casing just give me a slight warm feel. I call it warm cool.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh? 13 pounds? On the manual it says 7.7 lbs. Wait a sec. Let me put mine on the scale.
  
 Just weigh it...5.6 kgs with tubes
  
 Yes JV it's possible we're the lucky ones with 230v.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It is by no means light weight. According to the user manual it weighs 4.5kgs. I thought it felt heavier than the DV336se which is 5.5kgs Again it's not a big issue. Elise certainly feels solid and weight has no bearing on how it sounds.
> 
> JV I have no clue on what impact different voltage has on weight and heat. I think Mordy uses fans on his which seems to indicate heat? On mine it's certainly no winter heater bummer LOL. Even putting my hand on the transformer casing just give me a slight warm feel. I call it warm cool. :bigsmile_face:




Yes, understand about not affecting sound quality. The manual weight spec pretty much matches what I just measured.

Mine definitely gets hot, man. Your not picking it up by the transformer housing after a few hours run without 15 to 20 minutes of cool down.

Hot on the deck out by the drivers too. As Mordy says, use of adapters does help to keep it running cooler.

But it does sound like 240v mains, is a benefit, to keeping the "heat devil" away...from your tube amp.

.


----------



## aqsw

Man, I wish I could join you guys talking about the tube adventures. Mine isn't coming for a couple weeks. 
Another artist I really enjoy is Justin Townes Earle. He is Steve Earles son. A favorite of mine on Tidal.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Man, I wish I could join you guys talking about the tube adventures. Mine isn't coming for a couple weeks.
> Another artist I really enjoy is Justin Townes Earle. He is Steve Earles son. A favorite of mine on Tidal.




Your getting closer aqsw...

Hang in there, man 

.


----------



## UntilThen

I think I just came close to 'my' end game tubes on Elise. For the 2nd time in 2 days I'm blown away from what I'm hearing. My heart is pulsating to the 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machine' from 'War of the Worlds'. This is the 1st 2 days !!!!!!! Help !!!!!!!!
  
 Replacement for ECC31 came. Here pairing with 5998. I can see why Nep bought 2 pairs of each now. This is *Elise on Fireball *(as oppose to Crack on Speedball)


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I think I just came close to 'my' end game tubes on Elise. For the 2nd time in 2 days I'm blown away from what I'm hearing. My heart is pulsating to the 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machine' from 'War of the Worlds'. This is the 1st 2 days !!!!!!! Help !!!!!!!!
> 
> Replacement for ECC31 came. Here pairing with 5998. I can see why Nep bought 2 pairs of each now. This is *Elise on Fireball* (as oppose to Crack on Speedball)




Must have socket savers under the 5998's? 

Very nice!!

.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Your getting closer aqsw...
> 
> Hang in there, man
> 
> .



I'm trying Buddy, it's so tough.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I'm trying Buddy, it's so tough.




Indeed, I remember how anxious I was, after waiting, 3 months!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

I feel your pain Aqsw. The problem is after you get it there will be further pain...you'll be listening to music non stop !!!


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> There is no schematic for Elise, but it could be that countries with mains that supply 240v...the transformer is smaller and has to do less wok than in countries where mains supply 120v...
> A larger transformer, in that case, is working harder, stepping UP the AC juice...?
> 
> My Elise is also by no means "light" and does not move when the HP cord is connected. Another indication that mine has a 2x size/weight transformer than ones delivered to countries whose mains supply 240v?
> ...




What was the weight declared on the shipping invoice? Mine was 6.7kg, it could be the reason but you're not running heavy loads, maybe 2 to 3 A maximum current draw.


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > I think I just came close to 'my' end game tubes on Elise. For the 2nd time in 2 days I'm blown away from what I'm hearing. My heart is pulsating to the 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machine' from 'War of the Worlds'. This is the 1st 2 days !!!!!!! Help !!!!!!!!
> ...


 
 Do you have a cover for War of the worlds .Thanks .


----------



## UntilThen

Mine says 6.25kgs. Guess I've a slim Elise


----------



## UntilThen

Here Mike


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I think I just came close to 'my' end game tubes on Elise. For the 2nd time in 2 days I'm blown away from what I'm hearing. My heart is pulsating to the 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machine' from 'War of the Worlds'. This is the 1st 2 days !!!!!!! Help !!!!!!!!
> 
> Replacement for ECC31 came. Here pairing with 5998. I can see why Nep bought 2 pairs of each now. This is *Elise on Fireball* (as oppose to Crack on Speedball)




End game for two users, H1 and UT. I'll keep track of people's end games  That is why I bought 3 tubes, one as a backup. Can't find another 5998 though. I think I just went straight to my end game rather than roaming around lol

I'm also hunting these without any luck! 

6AS7G 
6AS7GA 
6080

Maybe 
6N7 
C3G-S 

I'll keep these as something to reset my hearing, just like you sniff coffee beans at the perfume shop to reset your smelling lol


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> Do you have a cover for War of the worlds .Thanks .




Mine is heavy weight champion lol


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Here Mike




 Is Chris de Burgh in there sounds like him  . that style of album reminds me of a vinyl i have RICK WAKEMAN JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH very good album  this is original 1974 version


----------



## aqsw

Has anybody run 6nfg s. I have a pair with adaptors waiting for when my amp arrives.They look real cool.


----------



## aqsw

aqsw said:


> Has anybody run 6nfg s. I have a pair with adaptors waiting for when my amp arrives.They look real cool.




No love for Justin Townes Earle?


----------



## UntilThen

Mike it's Richard Burton narrating. Voice thick with cigar smoke and whisky. I love him with Clint Eastwood in 'Where Eagles Dare' movie.
  
 Aqsw what is 6nfg ?
  
 Oh man the 'Spirit of Man' track on the War of the Worlds album is killing me !!! HE560 is singing now !!!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello again guys. Wow, here is the Elise thread! And *already 60 pages in just 3 weeks?* Big What... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess the Elise amp was so good it got banned from Head-Fi (kidding). Nah I heard what happened - I just hope this thread can last longer than a year if we can work together to make sure that same _shiznit _doesn't happen again.
  
 Anyway, as someone still standing on the sidelines between the Feliks Ausio Elise and a Glenn OTL amp (and having not tried either yet), here are  some observations (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):
  
 - both amps are approx. the same price
 - both may (theoretically) sound about as good
 - Elise is about 1/2 the size / weight (a plus)
 - Elise doesn't require as many tubes, and it's tubes are MUCH cheaper than Glenn OTL.
  
 ... does that about cover it, or did I miss anything, or make any mistake? Additionally, would somebody please tell me if the Elise amp is compatible with 6J5 or 6S2S Russian tubes (even with an adapter)? I may be getting some of those for another amp, and already have some 7SN7 tubes that should work with the Elise. Thanks and enjoy


----------



## aqsw

Actually Winnipeg made Chris De Burgh and Supertramp famous. 
I
They got a following here. Could not get a major label, until Winnipeg stations played the songs.(all the time)
Winnipeg, Home of Neil Young, Guess Who, BTO, and Lorenna McKennet


----------



## MIKELAP

aqsw said:


> Actually Winnipeg made Chris De Burgh and Supertramp famous.
> 
> They got a following here. Could not get a major label, until Winnipeg stations played the songs.
> Winnipeg, Home of Neil Young, Guess Who, BTO, and Lorenna McKennet


 
 i taught it was Montreal


----------



## aqsw

decentlevi said:


> Hello again guys. Wow, here is the Elise thread! And *already 60 pages in just 3 weeks?* Big What...   I guess the Elise amp was so good it got banned from Head-Fi (kidding). Nah I heard what happened - I just hope this thread can last longer than a year if we can work together to make sure that same _shiznit_ doesn't happen again.
> 
> Anyway, as someone still standing on the sidelines between the Feliks Ausio Elise and a Glenn OTL amp (and having not tried either yet), here are  some observations (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):
> 
> ...




I may be wrong, but I think the Elise is more headphone friendly. By that, I mean most headphnes can be used and sound as well as their specs. I think the Glen prefers certain phones?? Thisis just what I was advised when buying my new headphones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Anyway, as someone still standing on the sidelines between the Feliks Ausio Elise and a Glenn OTL amp (and having not tried either yet), here are  some observations (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):
> 
> - both amps are approx. the same price




I don't think I have ever seen a Glenn Amp price list...

.


----------



## aqsw

mikelap said:


> i taught it was Montreal




Nope, CDB concerts used to sell out here continually, before anybody even knew who he was.

Then he went to Montreal!,

Ps. My daughter got her music teaching degree in Montreal. I love that city!


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Hello again guys. Wow, here is the Elise thread! And *already 60 pages in just 3 weeks?* Big What...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hello DL welcome back !!!
  
 Yes Elise is so good it cause a thread meltdown 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't answer your questions. I have great respect for Glenn and his works. No doubt his amps will sound great. At the same time I've here in my possession Elise and she is just smacking good I can assure you. I'm unfamiliar with the tubes you mention and I don't see it being compatible with Elise on the manual.
  
 My advice is buy both amps, compare and tell us.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello, well if I strike it rich I'll get both amps or even more to compare. But all these observations are seeming to lean me in favor of the Elise, especially with the notion just mentioned that Elise may be more compatible with a wider array of headphones. (I know that's heresay, but it counts as a possibility).
  
 I made an error in my posting, I meant to say I plan to use some of my 6SN7 tubes in the Elise. And although you folks told me before that non-matched tubes of the same sort are OK, I think I'm seeing between the lines that the only way to know how a tube really sounds on an amp that requires two, would be to get a 2nd matched tube to complete the matched set - right?
  
 I guess nobody knows if 6J5 tubes work on Elise? I'm suspecting they should though, because they work on the Project Ember amp in dual mode, in place of one 6SN7 tube (so it may require 4 of them)


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> I made an error in my posting, I meant to say I plan to use some of my 6SN7 tubes in the Elise. And although you folks told me before that non-matched tubes of the same sort are OK, I think I'm seeing between the lines that the only way to know how a tube really sounds on an amp that requires two, would be to get a 2nd matched tube to complete the matched set - right?




It's okay to use two different drivers, the most important aspect is to ensure they both have the same gain factor, so that one side is not louder than the other.

Here, for example, an FDD20 as one driver and an ECC31 as the other, they pair super well together:




​
Cheers!!


----------



## UntilThen

Again can't comment on Glenn amp as I have not heard it but Elise is truly versatile with headphones. I've just tried 2 different headphones. The HE560 and HD650. One a planar magnetic at 35ohms and 90db and the other a dynamic drivers at 300 ohms. Both are handled with ease by Elise. In fact I like HE560 more now with Elise.
  
 With regards to 6SN7s I believe you can even use a Tung Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears with a Sylvania 6sn7wgt. I'll try later and let you know. However I'm a symmetrical guy. I prefer coordinating pairs visually. So I rather use 2 Sylvania than mix as above.
  
 Elise is great fun with tube rolling. I didn't think we would have so many options as we've tried now and there's more to be discovered.


----------



## Lord Raven

decentlevi said:


> Hello, well if I strike it rich I'll get both amps or even more to compare. But all these observations are seeming to lean me in favor of the Elise, especially with the notion just mentioned that Elise may be more compatible with a wider array of headphones. (I know that's heresay, but it counts as a possibility).
> 
> I made an error in my posting, I meant to say I plan to use some of my 6SN7 tubes in the Elise. And although you folks told me before that non-matched tubes of the same sort are OK, I think I'm seeing between the lines that the only way to know how a tube really sounds on an amp that requires two, would be to get a 2nd matched tube to complete the matched set - right?
> 
> I guess nobody knows if 6J5 tubes work on Elise? I'm suspecting they should though, because they work on the Project Ember amp in dual mode, in place of one 6SN7 tube (so it may require 4 of them)




Tubes not matched are OK, tubes different brands are even Ok  As far as I know, the two tubes are in series, therefore the mismatch doesn't really matter unless it is huge. 

All types of 6SN7 will work, but we have come way ahead of that game. We are using C3G-S and 6N7 tubes. Best think about Elise is that you have 15 days return, buy it try it, don't like it, return it. 

Goto their website and download the manual, compatible tubes are mentioned. It'll take us time to discover more tubes that sound good in Elise. 

Don't wait too long, they might revise another price by next year. 22nd Elise just got delivered, more are in the making. I'm sure they'll try hard to maintain standard, otherwise raise prices.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks folks, that's quite helpful. Yeah maybe I should consider the C3G and 6N7 and just try whatever 6SN7 tubes I have instead of getting more. I see how the same type of non-matched tubes are compatible, but I was just saying that a matched pair would allow you to get a better idea of exactly how a specific type of tube effects the sound


----------



## Suuup

I finally gave in, and followed the advice of JV. Just bought a pair of Mullard 6080's. 
  
 Is this a worthy end-game?
  
  
  
  
  
 There is no such thing in this hobby.. Only the illusion, which might let you keep a small part of your sanity. Deeper down the rabbit hole we go. On and on..


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Suuup those are very good power tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes Suuup those are very good power tubes




Suuup will be mating them with ECC31's...so think this will be a very happy combo, indeed! Magic in the mids!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

*ECC31 / Mullard CV2984*
  
 This combo is just as enjoyable as ECC31/5998 with a bit less bass. Bass is still there, controlled and nice sounding. Quality bass. The rest of the frequency spectrum is still magic insofar as clarity, imaging, dynamics, airy, warm, lush and sweet midrange. You'll be very happy with this.
  
 Mullard on socket savers to raise it up otherwise it will be shorter than the ECC31 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 All impressions on HE560 with NAD D1050 as DAC and Apple Lossless files.


----------



## UntilThen

*ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 Leonard's voice is imposingly deep and full. The bass notes sound resonant. The song is rich and grand. It's hard to pick out the differences between the Chatham and the Mullard but the Chatham seems more lofty and celestial whereas the Mullard seems more vibrant and energetic. I rate these 2 a must have in my collection. If I have to choose I'd pick this over the Mullard. I had mention this over at the 6AS7 tube rolling thread. The Chathams are the tube to settle down for the evening with a glass of red wine and just let the music wash over you. (Don't forget the hologram of Elise dancing before you)


----------



## UntilThen

Alright back to just enjoying the music. Critical listening is tiring.
  
 H1 you're right. I'm starting to hear notes in the songs that I haven't heard before. Time to try Mahler Symphony No 5.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Alright back to just enjoying the music. Critical listening is tiring.
> 
> H1 you're right. I'm starting to hear notes in the songs that I haven't heard before. Time to try Mahler Symphony No 5.


 

 You are falling in C.T.R.A. I can understand how excited you are to try all the tubes you have. Relax, enjoy, listen some good music  .... and roll tube as crazy after 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
CTRA : Compulsive Tube Rolling Addiction.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL CTRA. That's new. Don't worry come Monday I've to travel 300 kms again.
  
 Yes I'm relaxing now, just enjoying music. But I needed to know for myself whether there's any magic in cheaper tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  For my own and other's wallet's sake I need to know that. So remembering my own review on page 3 and Mikel mentioning this morning about the GE 6AS7GA, I decided to find out again whether this combo works.
  
 Pair with C3Gs, I listen to Adele come back single 'Hello'. It's there. The magic I mean. Exquisite. I lean back and just enjoy a gifted singer.
  
*GE 6AS7GA*  $11 each from Parts Express
*C3G* with adapters.
  
_This is seriously cheap and good._


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I'm trying Buddy, it's so tough.


 
  
 Sure is, aqsw!...but know we're all behind you - _*you can do it, lol!!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jerick70 said:


> Thanks UT. Do you recommend a certain brand of ECC31s?


 
  
 Hi j70. As already mentioned, they're ALL made by Mullard, regardless of brand name (there seem to be more brands of the later ECC32 than the 31, from what I have seen). There is also one numbered CV1280 as well as 1285. The important thing to remember is that when listed on ebay, for example, 'ECC31' must always be the _first_ nomenclature stated...and not later, as an 'equivalent'. (Mind you, this is what had JazzVinyl discovering the other similar type of common-cathode, double triode tube - the 6N7G...which has turned out to be an excellent one for the Elise...and much cheaper. For now!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> *ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G*
> 
> Leonard's voice is imposingly deep and full. The bass notes sound resonant. The song is rich and grand. It's hard to pick out the differences between the Chatham and the Mullard but the Chatham seems more lofty and celestial whereas the Mullard seems more vibrant and energetic. I rate these 2 a must have in my collection. If I have to choose I'd pick this over the Mullard. I had mention this over at the 6AS7 tube rolling thread. The Chathams are the tube to settle down for the evening with a glass of red wine and just let the music wash over you. (Don't forget the hologram of Elise dancing before you)


 
  
 This I too believe to be a killer combination...not far off the 31/GEC CV2523 IMHO - and for a *lot* less!!
  


jerick70 said:


> As my ship date for my Elise gets closer I'm starting to look for tubes to roll with the Elise.  I purchased a matched pair of Chatham 6AS7G Copper posts and I already have a pair of RCA 6AS7Gs.  What other tubes does everyone recommend?


 
  
 Well done on those Chathams...hard to beat IMHO...
  


untilthen said:


> I think I just came close to 'my' end game tubes on Elise. For the 2nd time in 2 days I'm blown away from what I'm hearing. My heart is pulsating to the 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machine' from 'War of the Worlds'. This is the 1st 2 days !!!!!!! Help !!!!!!!!
> 
> Replacement for ECC31 came. Here pairing with 5998. I can see why Nep bought 2 pairs of each now. This is *Elise on Fireball *(as oppose to Crack on Speedball)


 
  
 Glad you have your replacement 31 already UT...and up and running even! But at this rate, either your ticker or poor old head might just explode lol!! (I think _both_ mine have by now...which is why I must start doing more 'enjoyment listening' and less of the 'analytical' type, to be sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And yeah..."War of the Worlds" is one of my favourite pieces when testing for sheer spine-tingling impact - and that's just regarding Richard Burton's voice, lol!! And when those special effects hit...*WOW!!!*...the unscrewing of that lid is truly toe-curling - and a surprisingly good indicator of the (edit : *any*) amp's talents IMHO. To make such a relatively 'simple' and limited sound-bite come over with such authority and effect is no mean feat, I suspect - no doubt it actually took all the sound engineer's considerable skills to create just this very short sequence. And it undoubtedly takes an equally skilled amp to reproduce it to anywhere near what he intended! The Elise steps up to the mark with flying colours...as she does with so many other aspects of sound reproduction...(but I don't need to tell _you_ guys that!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> Thanks folks, that's quite helpful. Yeah maybe I should consider the C3G and 6N7 and just try whatever 6SN7 tubes I have instead of getting more. I see how the same type of non-matched tubes are compatible, but I was just saying that a matched pair would allow you to get a better idea of exactly how a specific type of tube effects the sound


 
  
 Hi DL...good to see you here.
  
 As others have mentioned, the Elise is turning out to be a much more versatile amp than we ever imagined (or Lukasz, for that matter!).
  
 And indeed...the closer the matching, the more likelihood of getting closer to 'specifics' I should imagine...depending, as usual, on the rest of the gear and ears. I have in fact always wondered about this 'matching' issue, when two tubes from the same production line can end up being different in certain respects!...leading to a certain controversy/difficulty, depending on your viewpoint!
  
 So I suppose, as long as from the same family, the best bet is to try and get as closely matched plate strengths as is possible. The added advantage of our 2 drivers as opposed to one is that where just one MUST have both triodes of equal strength to be in balance, so long as the individual *Ia* figures are known, we can try to find tubes that will basically have the two plates added together fairly even L and R - and as the driver's triodes are connected in series in the Elise, it therefore doesn't actually matter if the 2 plates are a bit different...just the _total_ is important. This is how I see it, anyway...hope I'm right, lol!
  
 As for actual tubes...I must just repeat the oft-quoted advice - if not too bothered about rolling different tubes, the safest bet is to look out for a good pair of ECC31s (which need adapters), driving the best powers you can manage...recent posts give plenty of info, but I'm sure you already know a good deal about them...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


>




Interesting that your top deck is not flat FLAT black, UT!! 
You have some tube reflection. Mine is super flat black, no tube reflection at all.
Yours, without adapters or tube extenders would reflect the tube glow...

That would be a nice touch!!!!

.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

About CTRA:

A day in a tube roller's life:

Checked the temp of the Elise in the morning after running overnight with the fans on. Temperature checker is my hand - touching the side - cool, the top of the transformer - cool, bottom a little warm, the socket extender to the power tube - warm, the socket extender driver tube - cool.
All systems go, OK.

Looking at the clock - 30 hours on the little sub miniature buggers. Let's crank up the volume. Sounds good. Did the driver tubes change over time? Yes.

Sounds really good. Very good detail, all the instruments stand out in relief with excellent separation. Neutral presentation, not warm. Reminds me a little of the C3g. Guess that that these tubes are pretty much burned in. Surprisingly good mid bass.

Well, let's try something different. Goofy different.

Put in the C3g driver tubes into the power tube sockets, left the Sylvania 7963 as drivers. Holding my breath, flipping the power switch on. Yes, it works. How does it sound? Not bad, but thin in the bass; very good detail and treble. So we need more power for the power tubes.

Let's try something a little crazy, cringe-worthy, different. Let's create two different channels: Siemens C3g with Syl 6AS7GA on one side, and Tung Sol Reissue 6SN7GTB SE with a 5998 on the other channel. Heard that 6SN7 and 5998 match well.

Sound? Not bad, pretty coherent and more similar than dissimilar/channel. OK, so the amplification factor is 5.5 for the 5998 and 2 for the 6AS7GA. Moving the balance control a little to compensate. Not bad; the 5998 definitively adds great bass and mid bass.

OK, enough dissimilarities - let's go for the gold! Magic sound - ze best!

Plopping in my two Mazda 6N7G unobtaniums with the Syl 6AS7GA. Flicking the on switch - oh no! Large hum, no sound. Hmmmm.
Instant shut-off. Check the connections. Check the socket extenders. Let the amp cool off. Switching the tubes around. Doubts - are the tubes too old? Did they lose it? What's going on??? Gingerly switching on the power again. LOUD HUM. WHAT'S GOING ON? HIT THE OFF SWITCH. NOW!

Scratching my head. Wait a second - the Mazda's had too much space above them in my rack - not flying high - after all they have two sets of wings...Yes, that's the problem - forgot to use the adapters switching from ECC32 to ECC31.

Power on. Bliss. Wall of music. Concert Hall fifth row. Yes, everybody is right about the ECC31 - in a class of its own. Does it apply to my Mazdas? Could be, I would describe them in the same way, but have not heard the ECC31s.

Fell asleep in my listening chair at 1:20am....

And so ends a day in a tube roller's life. Addiction? Crazy? Yes and Yes. Period.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL Mordy you have to stop making me laugh at 1:37am. I thought I was bad. Yours is extreme CTRA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Meet you at the rehab clinic in 3 months time.
  
 JV, yes first thing I notice about Elise as I touch the top plates is that they feel smooth. Nice to the touch. I mentioned a semi sheen. It's not reflective until you have the glass tubes inserted and then only just. I think Feliks Audio are getting better as they go. The transformer casing though has a brushed power coating feel which I actually prefer. With the bronze company logo on top it looks classy. In the top view picture which I link, it looks completely matt black though. Overall presentation I'd give 9.5 out of 10. Should have been a 10 but that's left for Elise Mk2.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Glad you have your replacement 31 already UT...and up and running even! But at this rate, either your ticker or poor old head might just explode lol!! (I think _both_ mine have by now...which is why I must start doing more 'enjoyment listening' and less of the 'analytical' type, to be sure!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1 you're very descriptive about Elise sonic abilities. In the early days that is what makes me say. 'Take my money, give me Elise NOW'. I listened to 'War of the Worlds' a long time ago, when I was still good looking like Richard Burton in his younger days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 About the ECC31. As good as it is, I'm really surprised at the C3G. Where did you guys find this little marvel? The details and clarity is astonishing. For the first time I love trebles and I start to love the HE560. A shame I sold the DT880. Would have been spine tingling listening to it via the C3G. It is so addictive listening to it. I think it's the best thing since Vegemite.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


>




Interesting that the Lorenz C3g's have pentagon shaped micas. The Siemen C3g's, use round micas.




.


----------



## UntilThen

The Lorenz are the cheaper cousins of Siemens but looks just as classy. It has less pronounced treble so I hear which is what attracts me to it. So once again I'm curious about how the Siemens will sound to my ears.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1 you're very descriptive about Elise sonic abilities. In the early days that is what makes me say. 'Take my money, give me Elise NOW'. I listened to 'War of the Worlds' a long time ago, when I was still good looking like Richard Burton in his younger days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...glad it turns out I wasn't over-hyping in my earlier assessments - in fact, I think I may have even been _under_-stating her prowess, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But at least it whetted your appetite, lol!...and that of a good few others, I'm glad to say....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now you can see why I plugged the C3g for so long - beginning in the LittleDot Tube Rolling days : 
  
 I had always loved Yamamoto's laquered amps, but way out of my pocket. I was very interested in the C3m he used, but being a 20V tube, was unsuitable. While tossing some hypothetical tube families about, Audiofanboy briefly mentioned the C3g...well, that pricked up my ears(?), but there were no adapters available...and so began my foray into making them myself. Steep learning curve, much practice and plenty mistakes later, the stage was set. For me - and most others - they just blew away even top-flight 6DJ8 family tubes. Then an enterprising member managed to find a Chinese maker for the adapters, and the rest is history!
  
 Spot on re its really exceptional qualities - clarity; incredible detail; amazing treble; fabulous 'open' soundstage, etc. etc.
 The only thing that had me started on the alternative trail of the ECC31 was gibosi's mention of its smoother treble (plus amazing sub-bass!), as my Siemens C3g'S's were a tad too much for my new Beyer T1's achilles heel - that treble!! They brought a wonderful sparkle to the HD650s, but needed taming for the T1s...thus the ousting by the ECC31...
  
 But yes...I still regard the C3g as one of the best drivers on the planet - *when partnered just right!!!*
 And yes, the Lorenz is a little more 'laid back' than the Siemens...but if one's system needs a good dose of sparkle, sizzle and heaps of detail, the Siemens (preferably the 'S' version) is the way to go IMHO...
  
 Edit : Trouble is there are no commercially available adapters for the C3g, and at present, time prevents me from doing the honours alas...but perhaps in the months to come...?


----------



## UntilThen

C3G / 5998 is on par for excellence with ECC31 / 5998 or ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G for me using either HE560 or HD650.
  
 The 'bite' from the C3G is what draws me back to it all the time. It's like a Doberman(C3G) as opposed to a German Shepherd(ECC31). Both are very fine pedigree IMO and you won't want to be the one running away from them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I really think Elise becomes more formidable with these tubes. I would never have imagine tubes will have so much influence in the overall sound. I use to think 10% at most but now I'm very sure it's way in excess of that.
  
 These !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> C3G / 5998 is on par for excellence with ECC31 / 5998 or ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G for me using either HE560 or HD650.
> 
> The 'bite' from the C3G is what draws me back to it all the time. It's like a Doberman(C3G) as opposed to a German Shepherd(ECC31). Both are very fine pedigree IMO and you won't want to be the one running away from them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Brilliant analogy, UT...*spot on!*...Doberman vs Alsatian (German Shepherd) - the latter _almost_ cute and cuddly, lol!!...Love it...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Brilliant analogy, UT...*spot on!*...Doberman vs Alsatian (German Shepherd) - the latter _almost_ cute and cuddly, lol!!...Love it...




I thought the analogy was good, too 

Well done, UT!

.


----------



## UntilThen

*FDD20 / ECC31 with Mullard 6080*
  
Let me start by saying I was a big skeptic when I first heard H1 and then JV say that this pairing sounds glorious. I'm a symmetrical guy. I like things to be in order. My pens and paper on my desk are arranged in neat rows. I can't stand untidiness. However I needed to know for MYSELF if this is glorious indeed. When JV offered to make the adapter and send me the FDD20, I was a bit skeptical. I didn't know what to say. At the same time I was more curious than EVER. Logic tells me that I won't use a Focal speaker for the left and a Dynaudio speaker for the right but this is not as drastic as that. These are tubes and I think Elise is crafted such that an unlikely pairing of driver tubes with the same gain can sound good and have a perfect stereo image.
  
Before I started this exercise I promise myself that I will be brutally honest. If it sounded crap I'll say so. If it sounded good I'll report it as I hear it.
  
So what do I think?
  
On the first song, Leonard Cohen's 'In My Secret Life' (you probably got sick of me quoting this song but I know it by heart now)...Leonard's voice sounded sonorous. Deep and FULL. It moves me. Before the song ended I knew it was unlike what I had heard before. I had spend one complete day yesterday with ECC31/Mullard or Chatham or 5998 and I have listen to this song more than 10 times just yesterday alone.
  
Next I play Randy Crawford 'A Rainy Day in Georgia' another of my favourite. Randy's voice is SWEET and the song moves me. Again I feel that I have not heard this song (which I have heard so many times in the past weeks) the way I'm hearing it now.
  
Now the real test. 'The Spirit of Man' from War of the Worlds which I have been playing multiple times yesterday so it's still fresh in my mind. When the female singer say 'Nathaniel, Nathaniel...' I felt the hair of my arms rising..it's surreal. Never experience it so real before. There's something here that I'm hearing that moves my inner being.
  
I finished the song spent and exhausted. I turn around and look at the amp just to make sure it's the FDD20/ECC31 there and that I'm not hallucinating. It's there alright. I'm speechless. I don't want this unlikely pairing to be the best I've heard so far but with a big exasperation, I know it to be so. Sigh I hate those wires sticking out but the sound.....ethereal and stereo image no doubt about that. At no time do I detect that I was getting different volume, gain, or any other thing. It's exactly as I would have heard from a stereo image.
  
This concludes my 1st impressions of FDD20 / ECC31. I'll write to Lukasz to request that future Elise be build to accept FDD20 without adapters and without the need for an unsightly 12v transformer. 
  


 Gear used :-  HiFiMan HE560 with NAD D1050 as DAC and Tidal HiFi subscription on 16/44.1khz CD quality.


----------



## UntilThen

On further listening, I think what I'm hearing now is a pairing of C3G with ECC31. The highs are now crystal clear. At the same time the mids arrest and grabs you while the thunderous bass is chest pounding.
  
 It's like mating a Doberman with a Alsatian (German Shepherd). What would you call that? Dobertian? I don't think I have a picture of that.
  
 Omg 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' by Annie Lennox is soul moving with these tubes.
  
 My amp is getting a bit hotter now. I suspect the Mullard 6080 generates more heat than the Chatham 6AS7G. Will test that now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Years ago, when I lived near Williamsburg, Virginia, the library system built a beautiful stage/theatre that held maybe 150~200 people.
Really nice design, and construction, all the seats on risers, everybody got a great seat, acoustics were top notch.

They announced a show that featured two local bands. One everybody knew, because the drummer was a local NPR (Norfolk, VA) DJ who did the Jazz
show, and whose Dad was rather notable, and well off, Dad had bought his son the finest musical education. This DJ/Drummer also had an impressive super large top of the line drum kit, that, when you saw it...inspired you, and you thought "Wow, this is going to be a great show".

The other band, no one had ever heard of. The drummer had a kit that consisted of a snare, a rather small, oddly shaped bass drum, one tom, a couple of cymbals on stands, and old metal trash can lid that he had suspended, rather like you would, a Gong. His kit was completely mis-matched. Not even the same colors. They looked old and beat up. Looked like he assembled his drum kit 'as found on the street', ready for trash pick-up. Even the drummers' throne looked like it had seen much better days, duct taped tears, and all. Truly NOT an inspiring sight, As he set up, everyone was looking around thinking "uh-oh, what's THIS about?"...

The crappy drum kit band played first. The guy was a miracle on those crummy drums! He played the sides of the drums, he played the rims, the kept incredible time tapping on the cymbal stands. He played that trash can lid like his success in the afterlife, depended on it! He got more sounds out of that kit, than was seemingly possible. He was energetic, he was exciting, he was unexpected, he was an absolute gift to music! Everyone was lifted by his ability to play the heck out of that wore out drum kit!

He had "IT" deep down in his soul. Kit be danged, he knew what he was doing, and he was very entertaining. His band got standing ovations.

Then came on the NPR DJ / drummer from Norfolk and his band. His kit looked totally professional, big double bass drums, so many toms and cymbals that you have to trust, that there is a human back there, somewhere. 
His playing was good. He was technically correct, everything was presented "nice and polite". No one was bored, everyone appreciated his playing, but he clearly didn't have "IT" down in his soul.

After the show folks were walking out to their cars, I heard several say, Yeah, Jay (the NPR DJ) was good, but that OTHER GUY....WOW!!!!

This is how it is, with the FDD20/ECC31 combo, together, they are like the drummer with the shabby kit.

It does not *LOOK* good. But...don't judge the book by it's cover. 

My advice: Don't look at the "kit"!! 

Instead, sit back, listen, and smile...


--JV--

.


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> Years ago, when I lived near Williamsburg, Virginia, the library system built a beautiful stage/theatre that held maybe 150~200 people.
> Really nice design, and construction, all the seats on risers, everybody got a great seat, acoustics were top notch.
> 
> They announced a show that featured two local bands. One everybody knew, because the drummer was a local NPR (Norfolk, VA) DJ who did the Jazz
> ...


 
 Coming from the Littledot thread i know exactly what you mean wasnt always nice but it worked here's an example i use to call that my reach for the sky setup complete with cloud lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes JV I'm very certain the heat you're experiencing is from the use of the Mullard 6080. I have experience more heat from 6080 as compared to 6AS7G even on my DV336se.
  
 My Elise was heating up earlier with 6080 but now switching back to Chatham 6AS7G it's a warm cool again.
  
 Another thing. I'm blessed with zero hum. No noise at all. Big smile here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With regards to the LOOKS, yeah sigh I still can't stand the wires but the sound is marvellous. I can't stop listening, song after song. It's very uplifting.
  
 Perhaps to hide the unsightly wires I'll place this picture before Elise.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Yes JV I'm very certain the heat you're experiencing is from the use of the Mullard 6080. I have experience more heat from 6080 as compared to 6AS7G even on my DV336se.
> 
> My Elise was heating up earlier with 6080 but now switching back to Chatham 6AS7G it's a warm cool again.
> 
> ...


 
 You've got taste 200hp VMAX oh ya nice girl to lol


----------



## UntilThen

Having post all those impressions, let me just restate that my impressions of the C3g/5998, ECC31/5998, ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G, ECC31/Mullard 6080.
  
 Those are still top notch combos. When I put in my order for Elise, I wouldn't have thought that I'll spend more on tubes than Elise herself but the gains are absolutely worth it. This is tube amp world.
  
 Happy listening and happy tube rolling. Maybe you'll discover more magic combos !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes JV I'm very certain the heat you're experiencing is from the use of the Mullard 6080. I have experience more heat from 6080 as compared to 6AS7G even on my DV336se.
> 
> My Elise was heating up earlier with 6080 but now switching back to Chatham 6AS7G it's a warm cool again.
> 
> ...




Hello UT...

Yes! The 6080's do run hot!!

I am so glad you found the FDD20/ECC31 to be an agreeable combination. 

Your mention of "pairing of the C3g with ECC31" is exactly correct. The laid back and wonderful ECC31 brought to life by the sparkling sound stage and exciting presentation of the FDD20 (which mimics the C3g in presentation) but retains the same sound qualities present in the ECC31. Everything sounds new, you notice things you never knew were in the mix.

I know it seems unlikely, that mixing drivers would work this well. And I understand the scepticism. I wasn't expecting them to work this way, either.

I had initially bought one FDD20 to use in a little amp I use at work that takes one 12au7. But the 12au7 amp does not run without the tube plugged in, so, the idea of using the FDD20 in that amp, was scraped. I then bought (and waited) for the adapter to "try" it in the Elise, and was greeted with the happy pairing, very much to my surprise, as well 

I knew I could trust H1's sound assessments (he brought C3g to the scene) but I was rather astounded that they worked *this* well together.

I would encourage others to try the *FDD20/ECC31 combo*, too...


Cheers and happy listening!!




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww-ZKY3c4G8[/VIDEO]​

--JV--


----------



## UntilThen

Now falling back on 2 ECC31 with 2 Chatham 6AS7G. Sounds very good too but I detect that the highs are not as sparkling and the mids are not as forceful now. Urrrgh don't taste the FDD20 forbidden fruit or you'll be using that picture of the VMAX and the girl like me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Now falling back on 2 ECC31 with 2 Chatham 6AS7G. Sounds very good too but I detect that the highs are not as sparkling and the mids are not as forceful now. Urrrgh don't taste the FDD20 forbidden fruit or you'll be using that picture of the VMAX and the girl like me.




LOL....will have to work on a prettier adapter. I am learning how to do it, but it requires soldering wires directly on to the FDD20 lugs, so, once done, not removable and cannot be easily undone.

My first stab at this did not work. But learned some lessons. Hope to try again this weekend, or next 

Would make the ugly drum kit, look much nicer.


----------



## Suuup

I've been doing a few heat measurements. As some of you know, I run one 6080 on the left channel and a stock power tube on the right. 
  
 Stock tube highest heat measured: 133 C
 6080 highest heat measured: 160 C
  
 Bear in mind those heat measurements vary greatly depending on where on the tube I'm measuring it. Those temperatures are the highest I could record, trying a lot of different spots on the tubes. 
  
 I did some heat measurements of the Elise itself too. To the right of the drivers (stock power side) the Elise is 41 C. On the left side of the drivers (6080 side) the Elise is 43 C. The temperature of the Elise in the center of all 4 tubes is 50 C. The temperature on top of the transformer is 39-40 C.
  
 My ECC31's are ~74 C. Room temperature is 21.5 C. Elise has been running for a couple of hours now. 
  
 I've been using an infrared gun to do all the measurements. 
  
 Edit:
 One last peculiar measurement: All 4 tubes are 80-82 C on top. Might there be any reason for this, or is it just coincidence?


----------



## UntilThen

Ok very good findings there Suuup. Clearly shows that 6080 generates more heat that 6AS7G or 6H13C.
  
 However as 6080 is an endorsed alternative power tube by Feliks Audio, it's very safe with those operating temperatures. It won't be an issue if running the amp for 8 hours I'm pretty convinced. Feliks Audio even acknowledged that tubes can reach in excess of 150C.
  
*From Feliks Audio user manual:-*

_The amplifier should be plugged to AC 230V (120V for the North America version) power socket with ground connection. Please note that tubes can reach operational temperature with excess of 150 Celsius (300 Fahrenheit) therefore tube exchange should be done with the device unplugged from AC power, after allowing the tubes to cool down and letting the capacitors discharge (minimum 5 minutes). Recommended ambient temperature for the amplifier to operate is between 15 and 30 Celsius (60 to 86 Fahrenheit)_
  
 Did you already get your ECC31s Suuup?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ok very good findings there Suuup. Clearly shows that 6080 generates more heat that 6AS7G or 6H13C.
> 
> However as 6080 is an endorsed alternative power tube by Feliks Audio, it's very safe with those operating temperatures. It won't be an issue if running the amp for 8 hours I'm pretty convinced. Feliks Audio even acknowledged that tubes can reach in excess of 150C.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, I'm not worried one bit. I believe most materials can take a lot more stress than most people seem to think intuitively. 
  
 Yea I got a pair last week. Been having problems with the adapters humming, but it seems to be slowly disappearing. Might not need a new pair of adapters anyway.


----------



## UntilThen

It's strange when I hear hums whether it's in Elise or adapters because I've been very fortunate. None of my tubes hum. Not even the FDD20 that JV sends me that needs 12V. Well I had it grounded like what JV tells me so it's hum free.
  
 JV, you need not worry that 120V heats up more than 240V now. Today being the 3rd day that I'm using Elise, she feels a lot hotter now. Not the cool warm anymore. This is with ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G all with adapters and socket savers. It's not burning hot but certainly warmer now then the 1st 2 days. I don't know why. Maybe Elise is warm up now.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, please bare with me as I still try to wrap my head around all this. I'm a bit of a slow learner, and most all of these tube terms are foreign to me. So here's my first set of questions for now please:
  
  @UntilThen so out of a few tube combinations you've mentioned:
  
*ECC31 / Mullard CV2984*
*ECC31 / 5998 *
*ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G*
*GE 6AS7GA* / *C3G*
  
 So for the cheaper GE combo., would you say it sounded nearly as good as the others, or lacking much in any way?
  
 And which combo. was that that you were talking about it being your _end game_ and '_Elise on Firebal_l'?
  
 Also @mordy, what was that Mazda tube you were talking about with the ECC31? And did you like that better than all others above?


----------



## DecentLevi

Also I there's something that's still baffling me. It may have been explained before but I'm still trying to get this:
  
 What is the difference between driver tubes and power tubes? How does one change the sound versus the way the other changes the sound - and which type changes the sound more?


----------



## UntilThen

Alright DL, let me answer the first question.
  
 The combination that impressed me the most is the ECC31/5998 with HE560. Gives the mids and bass a very nice lift. High notes are already superb from HE560. With HD650 though I feel all 1st 3 combinations in your list gives good results. Which, depends on your mood. When you really want some hard hitting bass ECC31/5998 and HD650 is amazing. On the other hand if you want something more breezy and airy, the other 2 combos with HD650 sounds great.
  
 ECC31/GE 6AS7GA good as it may be unfortunately isn't even close to those other combinations. I don't want to give people the impression that it is almost on par. There is a wide gap IMHO. Again others will disagree and I respect their views. I was ask for my views and I give it. At no point do I want to offend others who happen to think GE 6AS7GA is on par with the rest. Their views are also valid. They are probably using different gears and all of us have different preferences when it comes to sound. Bear in mind the GE 6AS7GA I'm referring to are those I review on page 3, from Parts Express. There is an older GE 6AS7GA which I haven't got and cannot comment.
  
 I know Mordy has the Mazda 6N7G which he really loves and Mikelap says it's good too. Mine is arriving soon. Mordy doesn't have the ECC31 so he won't be able to compare. The Mazda 6N7G is a driver and so you don't use it with ECC31 which is also driver. You'll pair the Mazda with a power tube, such as the 5998, Mullard 6080, Chatham 6AS7G or what have you.
  
 Again the usual applies ....YMMV.
  
 Btw if you read my latest impression, the FDD20/ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G is now my firm favourite. I cannot even believe I'm now saying this but it's true. I'm still scratching my head which is about to explode.
  
 Please feel free to chime in anyone.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Also I there's something that's still baffling me. It may have been explained before but I'm still trying to get this:
> 
> What is the difference between driver tubes and power tubes? How does one change the sound versus the way the other changes the sound - and which type changes the sound more?


 

 For this question, I'll answer the easy part first. From my own experience, both driver and power tubes affects sound in equal proportion depending on the tubes you choose. For instance, 5998 power tube and ECC31 driver tubes have very distinct characteristics and will influence the sound outcome. It's finding the right synergy between power and driver tubes together with your headphone and DAC. Yes all that comes into play. A HD800 and a HD650 sounds different and needs different tubes to roll with. So tube rolling is important for individuals. You can get impressions but you also need a few tubes to try out for yourself. Your ears will be the final judge and how much you're willing to spend of course. Again as in everything, more expensive does not necessarily mean better.
  
 For difference between driver and power tubes or even rectifiers...I'll share a link. There will be other materials that cover it better but this gives you an idea.
  
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92111.0


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry DL, you were referring to C3g/GE 6AS7GA. Again this is let down by the GE in comparison with the other power tubes on the list you mention. It isn't bad. It's just in comparison, the others are clearly better IMO.
  
 However if you pair C3G / 5998, yes this is my next favourite combination, next to the ECC31 / 5998.
  
 So my order of preference now:-
  

FDD20 / ECC31 drivers with Chatham 6AS7G power tubes   I'm not going to wholeheartedly recommend this to everyone because you need a 12V transformer and you need some DIY on the adapter. However the sound is amazing. It's a mesh of ECC31 and C3G sound signature. Well not entirely correct because I think FDD20 sounds much better than C3Gs in the highs and mids. Your impression will be one of amazement. It's clearly better than 2 ECC31 or 2 C3G.
ECC31 / 5998 - Elise with Fireball
C3G / 5998 - Elise on Ice.
ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G - Elise Chill
ECC31 / Mullard 6080 - Elise Sport
  
 Note:- C3G is not an option now. The adapters are not available commercially and H1 has no time to do them now.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *FDD20 / ECC31 with Mullard 6080*
> 
> Let me start by saying I was a big skeptic when I first heard H1 and then JV say that this pairing sounds glorious. I'm a symmetrical guy. I like things to be in order. My pens and paper on my desk are arranged in neat rows. I can't stand untidiness. However I needed to know for MYSELF if this is glorious indeed. When JV offered to make the adapter and send me the FDD20, I was a bit skeptical. I didn't know what to say. At the same time I was more curious than EVER. Logic tells me that I won't use a Focal speaker for the left and a Dynaudio speaker for the right but this is not as drastic as that. These are tubes and I think Elise is crafted such that an unlikely pairing of driver tubes with the same gain can sound good and have a perfect stereo image.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...and thanks - you have surely made me a very happy dude, lol.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and JV, no doubt!
  
 Sometimes there comes a point where you can begin to doubt your own senses/judgment...even with JV's own confirmation of my findings!  But now with your ears also hearing what ours do, I think I can rest easy - and not keep torturing myself with trying to catch the combo out!! (which does spoil the enjoyment something cruel...).
  
 I call the FDD20's contribution "The C3g effect" - but as you say, that's not entirely correct. It is in effect a _modified_ version of...so I shall rename it "The C3g+++ effect"!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Whatever, it does indeed bring that extra bit of sparkle and detail...without any detrimental effect whatsoever being paired with an ECC31. The opposite, in fact...just like you and JV, I now prefer this combo over 2x ECC31s even - which I have been trying so hard to _*UN*_convince myself of...I simply could not believe it to be true.
  
 Anyway, I am so glad for you...because as I (and others!) _may_ have mentioned before..._*it can only get even better!!!*_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 So it's CHEERS!...and HAPPY LISTENING...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps.  Yes...what _*is*_ a cross between a Doberman and an Alsatian called?...All entries must be in by midnight...and accompanied by a blank cheque!!!
  
 pps. Have already suggested to Lukasz he needs to find a reliable stash of cheap FDD20s, along with doing the necessary mods for Elise MK2!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, you need not worry that 120V heats up more than 240V now. Today being the 3rd day that I'm using Elise, she feels a lot hotter now. Not the cool warm anymore. This is with ECC31/Chatham 6AS7G all with adapters and socket savers. It's not burning hot but certainly warmer now then the 1st 2 days. I don't know why. Maybe Elise is warm up now.




Yes, I was thinking that mine ran warmer after the first few days. 
Not "catch fire hot" but too warm to pick up until it cools for 10 minutes or so.

.


----------



## UntilThen

This combination of RCA smoke glass and 5998 which I use to like in the DV336se sounds so lacklustre now. After C3G and ECC31, the RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass sounds flat lol. It used to be my favourite tube. I think at this point the most gain for me is a pair of Siemens C3G especially the S version.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This concludes my 1st impressions of FDD20 / ECC31. I'll write to Lukasz to request that future Elise be build to accept FDD20 without adapters and without the need for an unsightly 12v transformer.




I don't think you will ever see the weird base on the FDD20 used natively, on the Elise...but it would be nice if you could selectively engage 12v to the powers (and select 12v one side at a time).

That would make life easier, with the FDD20...

.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...and thanks - you have surely made me a very happy dude, lol..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1 you're so right on all counts. I'm so into this unusual combo now. See what I've got? Perfect isn't it? This has enough juice to light up Mars. JV reckons it's perfect.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> H1 you're so right on all counts. I'm so into this unusual combo now. See what I've got? Perfect isn't it? This has enough juice to light up Mars. JV reckons it's perfect.




It should already be grounded, and go straight into the adapter via the holes...and make things *look better*, which I know is important to you, UT 



.


----------



## nephilim

Excellent research done by everyone! Has anybody tried to pair a C3gs and ecc31?


----------



## UntilThen

Nep I think you cannot use a single C3G the way it's hooked up. You have to use it in pair. So it won't work with C3g and ECC31. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  
 This FDD20 / ECC31 is really amazing. I have to give H1 credit for stumbling onto this. 'No one would have believe...' that's Richard Burton's opening narrative in the 'War of the Worlds'. He might as well be narrating on this lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Excellent research done by everyone! Has anybody tried to pair a C3gs and ecc31?




I have...the C3g has far more gain than the ECC31 - so they don't pair well.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Nep I think you cannot use a single C3G the way it's hooked up. You have to use it in pair. So it won't work with C3g and ECC31. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> This FDD20 / ECC31 is really amazing. I have to give H1 credit for stumbling onto this. 'No one would have believe...' that's Richard Burton's opening narrative in the 'War of the Worlds'. He might as well be narrating on this lol.





You *can* use one C3g at a time, in Elise.

And UT is right, the Magic Combo has to be experienced to be believed. 

Just like C3g...we have H1 to thank!!

*Thank You, H1...!!!!!!!!!!!!*

.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi UT.
  
 Yeah...a nice neat source of 12V - especially as the FDD20 (or 2, even!) doesn't draw much current, lol!
  
 And as JV says, if it's already grounded inside you shouldn't (hopefully) have any hum/buzzing issues...
  
 All you need now is to brush up on soldering skills; play around with bending/routing pieces of wire; studying _meticulously_ pin and socket receptor positions; check eyesight condition(!); draw on endless reserves of patience/anger control/concentration/perseverence/_time_...and you're on your way to a MUCH neater setup entirely....tempted?!...(I think I can guess your response already, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and I wouldn't blame you!!!).
  
 Whatever, I do hope your new PS works OK, and that it at least makes things a bit neater for you.
  
 And thanks must go to JV, of course, for making this possible for you...
  
 ENJOY!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> You *can* use one C3g at a time, in Elise.
> 
> And UT is right, the Magic Combo has to be experienced to be believed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My pleasure, JV...


----------



## UntilThen

JV literally step me through everything including prepping the adapter. If I had done this on my own I would have turn Elise into a fireball !!!
  
 As it stands now my concern about the looks is slowly fading away because the sound more than make up for it. Also you guys say this will only get better. I cannot imagine what that will be because it's sounding perfect now.
  
 Omg it's 2am now I've been up since 8am yesterday


----------



## UntilThen

Many thanks to you H1 and JV. These 3 days have been a blast. These few combinations in Elise are truly amazing. I'm talking about the C3G, ECC31 and FDD20 in their respective combinations that I've posted. So much so I haven't revisited any of my 6SN7 tubes !!!
  
 And there's more to come. The Mazda 6N7G, the NU 6A6 and the Visseaux 6A6 and RCA 6N7GT.


----------



## nephilim

Just received a pair of Fivre 6N7G - first impression is really good with very tight and energetic bass. Feels a bit faster and direct than the ECC31. Need more time...
  
 What I can already say is that the seller form Czech Republic (cpt.luke) is highly recommended - kept me updated all the time, fast delivery and the best packaging I've seen so far - including instructions how to open the box and where to peel of the adhesive tape


----------



## UntilThen

Nep that's great to hear. I wouldn't have expected less from the Fivre. I was so tempted to buy it too because the packaging is all original and look so well preserved. It even comes with a certificate. The box is so typical of Italian flair and design. It's like Ferrari.
  
 I have to let it pass. Too many tubes for now. Let others sample it. I even let the GEC 6AS7G go and it sold for $165.50 for the straight base !!! and $222.50 for the round base !!! That's less than a pair of 5998. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  and a pair of ECC32 went for GBP261. Fortunately I was so engrossed in FDD20/ECC31 or I'd have burn another hole in my pocket.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Nep that's great to hear. I wouldn't have expected less from the Fivre. I was so tempted to buy it too because the packaging is all original and look so well preserved. It even comes with a certificate. The box is so typical of Italian flair and design. It's like Ferrari.
> 
> I have to let it pass. Too many tubes for now. Let others sample it. I even let the GEC 6AS7G go and it sold for $165.50 for the straight base !!! and $222.50 for the round base !!! That's less than a pair of 5998.
> 
> ...


 
 I was looking at those GEC's too. I'll try the 6080's first, and maybe get a pair of GEC later.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I was looking at those GEC's too. I'll try the 6080's first, and maybe get a pair of GEC later.




Suuup...your another, that will soon have everything you need to experience the "magic Combo" FDD20/ECC31, right?

.


----------



## UntilThen

Sup those GEC 6AS7G are the holy grail of power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well I managed to make it really neat and tidy. I still have to use a separate wire for grounding otherwise there is a soft hum but can be heard. Now with a separate ground wire it's almost silent...almost....99.99% The setup yesterday was dead silent....100%. Good enough for me.
  
 Thanks JV. Without you I wouldn't know what to do. Now I took out the FDD20 from the adapter and can see now where the positive and negative are. My ground wire is combined with the negative wire for the negative contact and the positive goes Lone Ranger into the positive contact. You drill 2 holes in the side of the adapter for the wires to go in. Brilliant. I could live with this now. No need for VMAX and barbie photo to hide Elise.
  
 Now on a 2nd day with this FDD20/ECC31 combo, I'm convinced that I wasn't dreaming yesterday. This is real, it's ALIVE. Nathaniel, Nathanieeeeeeeeel......


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Nep that's great to hear. I wouldn't have expected less from the Fivre. I was so tempted to buy it too because the packaging is all original and look so well preserved. It even comes with a certificate. The box is so typical of Italian flair and design. It's like Ferrari.
> 
> I have to let it pass. Too many tubes for now. Let others sample it. I even let the GEC 6AS7G go and it sold for $165.50 for the straight base !!! and $222.50 for the round base !!! That's less than a pair of 5998.
> 
> ...


 
 Nothing to loose sleep over testing between 60 and 50% when 50% is minimum not that great not bad if your in the U.S.at $165.00 the others at 222.00 even in the last seconds nobody increase the bid .


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup...your another, that will soon have everything you need to experience the "magic Combo" FDD20/ECC31, right?
> 
> .


 
  
 Hopefully. Just waiting for the adapters from China, but they're taking their time. The FDD20 is at the post office right now, just waiting for me to pick it up. 
  


untilthen said:


> Sup those GEC 6AS7G are the holy grail of power tubes.


 
  
 Yes, that is what I thought. I've been spending a bit much on tubes lately, however. 
  
  


mikelap said:


> Nothing to loose sleep over testing between 60 and 50% when 50% is minimum not that great not bad if your in the U.S.at $165.00 the others at 222.00 even in the last seconds nobody increase the bid .


 
  
 The GEC's tested bad? Didn't even notice, lol.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > Suuup...your another, that will soon have everything you need to experience the "magic Combo" FDD20/ECC31, right?
> ...


 
 You were hypnotized lol ,if theres  one thing i learned after looking at the merchandise its checking out the bottom of the page


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Nothing to loose sleep over testing between 60 and 50% when 50% is minimum not that great not bad if your in the U.S.at $165.00 the others at 222.00 even in the last seconds nobody increase the bid .


 

 Good point Mike. My experience with very good tubes is don't compromise. Get a good pair and be settled.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Hopefully. Just waiting for the adapters from China, but they're taking their time. The FDD20 is at the post office right now, just waiting for me to pick it up.


 
 Suuup you're getting the FDD20 too !!! I'm waiting to hear your scream from Denmark.
  
 Elise scales with good tubes. So does every good tube amps.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup you're getting the FDD20 too !!! I'm waiting to hear your scream from Denmark.
> 
> Elise scales with good tubes. So does every good tube amps.


 
 Haha. Hopefully it will be a scream of enjoyment, and not a scream of oh-no-what-have-I-done-everything-is-broken. I'm not sure of my DIY capabilities, but I will definitely give it a try.


----------



## UntilThen

This is ridiculous. Smooth Operator has so much bite and sound live now. The drums and instruments are so crystal clear and has zing. Sade's voice is just so smooth and tantalising. You really need to try out FDD20 / ECC31 on an Elise. Just put on a pair of Chatham 6AS7G power tubes with it and use a HE560. The realism is astounding.
  
 Elise is now really worth $2000 with this sound !


----------



## UntilThen

I decided to write Lukasz an email to thank him. This is what I wrote...
  
_Dear Lukasz,_
  
_Thank you for getting Elise to me. It's all your fault that I haven't slept in the last 3 days. I'm sending you my medical bills and demand a free tour of Feliks Audio. Btw you have no idea what tubes we're using in her now. It's time you update your user manual to include all those tubes._
  
_Yours sincerely,_
  
_UntilThen._


----------



## CITIZENLIN

How is everyone and the new thread?. I was shocked to find out the old thread. Nicest tight group of people since Little Dot I've ever encountered. What happened?? I just found out today from Colin regarding old thread being shut down. I've been enjoying Elise everyday , haven't missed a day since I got it. What is the latest S/N ? Is ELISE selling like cupcake? I hope they(Feliks-Audio) are doing well. Wow 65 pages in few weeks. I only read last couple of pages so far.


----------



## UntilThen

Mr Lin where have you been !!!
  
 I believe I have the latest Elise - number #22. As you can see, tube rolling is at full steam and Elise is really good. I won't use anymore colourful adjectives. Just simple and straight to the point. You should contribute your experiences here.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup...your another, that will soon have everything you need to experience the "magic Combo" FDD20/ECC31, right?
> 
> .


 
 How is going JV? Combo 20/31 is catching on fire? Looks like time to pull out that slim wallet of mine again.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Mr Lin where have you been !!!
> 
> I believe I have the latest Elise - number #22. As you can see, tube rolling is at full steam and Elise is really good. I won't use anymore colourful adjectives. Just simple and straight to the point. You should contribute your experiences here.


 
 Hello UT. Congrats to you #22. You all are doing wonderful job. I am enjoying every combinations of tubes. 5998/2399/ 7236 with C3gs/6n7g/6sn7 but seem like fdd20/ecc31 is a must have !!!!! hmmmmmm. This is the reason I've been away from here... my poor wallet...
  
  
 *Only thing I can contribute right now is Elise super hp amp for money but even better as preamp on home setup. I wonder any of you use her as preamp and how do they sound in your system.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> How is going JV? Combo 20/31 is catching on fire? Looks like time to pull out that slim wallet of mine again.




Hello CITIZENLIN...!!

Indeed, all who have dared to try the FDD20/ECC31 as drivers...have reported great joy in the sound quality the Elise produces with the "magic combo".

You have to heat the 12v FDD20 externally, that is the biggest drawback. But, you are rewarded with soaring sonics that you will be happy to enjoy...

It was Hypnos1 who discovered the magic of the 'combo' in this amp. Hope we have a few more "Eagles who will dare", soaring, soon.

Cheers!!

--JV--

.


----------



## UntilThen

Elise sounds good with most tubes but as I have just found out yesterday, *2031* (which you coined) is pretty amazing. It's unlike anything I've heard. It's not really that hard to setup or expensive. Haha now having learn it from JV, I can say it's easy.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello CITIZENLIN...!!
> 
> Indeed, all who have dared to try the FDD20/ECC31 as drivers...have reported great joy in the sound quality the Elise produces with the "magic combo".
> 
> ...


 
 I remember reading Colin's finding on 20/31 COMBO on old thread,  I guess I have to jump on bandwagon now. Which FDD20 should I get ?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Elise sounds good with most tubes but as I have just found out yesterday, *2031* (which you coined) is pretty amazing. It's unlike anything I've heard. It's not really that hard to setup or expensive. Haha now having learn it from JV, I can say it's easy.


 
 Have you tried FDD20/6N7G instead of 2031? I don't have ECC31s in my collection.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll try it now and let you know. I have a pair of Philco 6N7G.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Have you tried FDD20/6N7G instead of 2031? I don't have ECC31s in my collection.




I have, and it's pretty good. Not as good as FDD20/ECC31...think the 6N7G has a bit more gain and of course does not have the deep reach of the ECC31...

.


----------



## UntilThen

Lol I've just tried and it's very good. FDD20 / Philco 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G. Again it's a stereo image. No unbalanced left / right sound. Nothing of that sort. Bass is pretty amazing too.
  
 I have a pair of French Mazda 6N7G coming as well as 6A6. This is going to be interesting.
  
 Dang the seller for FDD20 disappear.
  
 Man you've to hear 'Smooth Operator' with this combo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> I remember reading Colin's finding on 20/31 COMBO on old thread,  I guess I have to jump on bandwagon now. Which FDD20 should I get ?




There is only one we know of. Do an ebay search, and click "worldwide" radial button on left. German seller appears to have many. Has grey paint on it, get it off with steel wool. Beautiful blue tinted glass underneath. They are branded RVC, all made my Phillips in Milan Italy in the 40's and 50's (we think). 

Uses a weird base, have to buy an adapter on eBay as well and a 12v DC power supply to heat the filament with.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> I'll try it now and let you know. I have a pair of Philco 6N7G.


 
  
 Thanks UT


jazzvinyl said:


> I have, and it's pretty good. Not as good as FDD20/ECC31...think the 6N7G has a bit more gain and of course does not have the deep reach of the ECC31...
> 
> .


 
 Thanks JV, I do like 6n7g/2399 combo. They sound little forward compare to C3gs or 6SN7GT. Tung Sol 6sn7gt (oval) with 2399 combo is the most musical to my ears. But I do like the power and airy nature of 6N7G. TS 6sn7gt has smooth and silky vocal/mid range without effecting sparkle top end


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Lol I've just tried and it's very good. FDD20 / Philco 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G. Again it's a stereo image. No unbalanced left / right sound. Nothing of that sort. Bass is pretty amazing too.
> 
> I have a pair of French Mazda 6N7G coming as well as 6A6. This is going to be interesting.
> 
> ...


 
 Who needs adderall when we got Elise.
  


jazzvinyl said:


> There is only one we know of. Do an ebay search, and click "worldwide" radial button on left. German seller appears to have many. Has grey paint on it, get it off with steel wool. Beautiful blue tinted glass underneath. They are branded RVC, all made my Phillips in Milan Italy in the 40's and 50's (we think).
> 
> Uses a weird base, have to buy an adapter on eBay as well and a 12v DC power supply to heat the filament with.


 
 How about these ? 
  http://www.ebay.de/itm/Zweifach-Triode-FDD20-3-Stuck-ungebraucht-gepruft-/131640430542?hash=item1ea6618fce:g:zE0AAOSwLVZV7E9l


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Lol I've just tried and it's very good. FDD20 / Philco 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G. Again it's a stereo image. No unbalanced left / right sound. Nothing of that sort. Bass is pretty amazing too.
> 
> I have a pair of French Mazda 6N7G coming as well as 6A6. This is going to be interesting.
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221925529432?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## CITIZENLIN

mikelap said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221925529432?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Hello ML
  
 Long time no see, Is that a decent price?


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Hello ML
> 
> Long time no see, Is that a decent price?




Wow! I'll say!!! That is about 1/3 what I have been paying!!


----------



## UntilThen

Dammit cant buy !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Dammit cant buy !!!




I tried too


----------



## UntilThen

What happened? It's the Martians. They took our FDD20 !


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> What happened? It's the Martians. They took our FDD20 !




This the deal Mordy pointed H1 too when he first encountered the FDD20. He adapted one, accidentally broke one doing an adapter and sent gibosi the third one. This is the first time I have seen this deal since (and I have been looking). 

Can't buy because EBay is having problems today!!!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My Bad..two different links! eBay seems to be coming back around...?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> My Bad..two different links! eBay seems to be coming back around...?


 
  
  
 How about the other link for 3pcs ? Are they any good? 3 for 30 eur.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Who needs adderall when we got Elise.
> 
> How about these ?
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Zweifach-Triode-FDD20-3-Stuck-ungebraucht-gepruft-/131640430542?hash=item1ea6618fce:g:zE0AAOSwLVZV7E9l




This is a great deal! I bought these 3, look at "other items" he has more sets of 3 avail...

Get 'em while they are hot!

.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> This is a great deal! I bought these 3, look at "other items" he has more sets of 3 avail...
> 
> Get 'em while they are hot!
> 
> .


 
 I don't see it , May be you can spare me one and adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> I don't see it , May be you can spare me one and adapter.




CITIZENLIN - 

Sure, can send you one. But I don't have any extra adapters at the moment. You will need this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Philips-FDD20-TO-12SN7-Tube-converter-adapter-/201418253970

Dremel off pins 7 and 8 on the adapter, then feed 12v DC to the tube from external source.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> CITIZENLIN -
> 
> Sure, can send you one. But I don't have any extra adapters at the moment. You will need this:
> 
> ...


 
 Are there no FDD20's for sale right now? I can't find any. 
  
 Edit: God damn it, it's 5 AM and I'm sitting here, reading/writing and searching for tubes.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> CITIZENLIN -
> 
> Sure, can send you one. But I don't have any extra adapters at the moment. You will need this:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks JV I do have 12v DC adapter. But how do I rewire the adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Just this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rohre-RVC-FDD-20-/221925529432


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Just this one:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rohre-RVC-FDD-20-/221925529432


 
 Bought one. Thanx


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Thanks JV I do have 12v DC adapter. But how do I rewire the adapter.




Do you have an ohm meter?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Do you have an ohm meter?


 
 Yes, But never used one before. i bought one last year for LD IV but i got chicken out and didn't go through with it.  Sorry I am not very good with these things.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Yes, But never used one before. i bought one last year for LD IV but i got chicken out and didn't go through with it.  Sorry I am not very good with these things.




Okay...we talked UT through it, so I'm sure we can get you going too. I will take it to PM to discuss how to externally heat the FDD20.


----------



## UntilThen

Did you guys buy all the FDD20 while I was away?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Did you guys buy all the FDD20 while I was away?



3 left. Get them while you can.


----------



## UntilThen

That's dumb. I end up buying 4. Was clicking in the car. Must have done it twice. Now I have enough FDD20 to last 20 years.
  
 I'm a FDD20 seller from now on.
  
 I sure hope JV didn't buy 2 more for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ummm FDD20 and 6N7G sounds good.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Did you guys buy all the FDD20 while I was aw


 
  


untilthen said:


> That's dumb. I end up buying 4. Was clicking in the car. Must have done it twice. Now I have enough FDD20 to last 20 years.
> 
> I'm a FDD20 seller from now on.
> 
> I sure hope JV didn't buy 2 more for me.


 
 i bought one , JV bought 3 (group of 3 used for 30+shipping)


----------



## UntilThen

Good price. Mine are new at Eur22 each. Anyone needs FDD20 I can let 2 go but otherwise no problem I'll stockpile it.
  
 Got 2 adapters too.
  
 Seriously FDD20 with 6N7G is cheap and good. Not as deep bass extension as ECC31 but 6N7G has solid mid bass punch. Not as smooth as ECC31 but can't complain at $15 for one Philco 6N7G.
  
 Switching back to FDD20/ECC31 it is clearly superior to the FDD20/Philco 6N7G. No contest.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Good price. Mine are new at Eur22 each. Anyone needs FDD20 I can let 2 go but otherwise no problem I'll stockpile it.
> 
> Got 2 adapters too.
> 
> Seriously FDD20 with 6N7G is cheap and good. Not as deep bass extension as ECC31 but 6N7G has solid mid bass punch. Not as smooth as ECC31 but can't complain at $15 for one Philco


 
 I haven't order my adapter yet so I can take one off you. Are you in states?
  
  
 Well , its my bed time now. Put on my HP and go to sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

No I want the 2 adapters although I have one already. Needed the 2 to be in white. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The other one JV painted it black for me.
  
 Only FDD20 I have access. I'm in Australia btw.


----------



## UntilThen

H1 or JV when you're awake can you answer this.
  
 How do you supply 12V to 2 FDD20?
  
 What's the best way to remove the grey paint on the FDD20?
  
 Why do we have to remove pins 7 and 8 on the adapter?
  
 Do we power up Elise first, then followed by the 12V? Or it doesn't matter which order. Likewise shutting down sequence?
  
 Does Elise supply current to the FDD20 or is it solely the 12V?


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> H1 or JV when you're awake can you answer this.
> 
> How do you supply 12V to 2 FDD20?
> 
> ...


 

 Not H1 nor JV but awake 
 1) To supply V to 2 FDD20 you need to have a 12.6V (12 to 13V ) power adapter able to support at least 1A to 2A  and you can use it for both FDD20. If not one adapter by lamp. Another solution is to use a step-up converter taking the power from the pin 7 and 8 and convert it from 6.3 to 12.6 for the P8A socket but you will have to build the adapter by yourself....
  
 2) gibosi responded me that he use a razor blade and peal the paint another solution is to use steel wood !  I used both starting to scratch and peal with a razor blade and finished the work with steel wool.
  
 3) The pin 7 and 8 provide the power for heater filament, if you keep them you will short circuit your power adapter with Elise heater circuit !
  
 4) The best would be to do it all at once ! I suggest you to power first the tube and the the Elise afterward.
  
 5) in this case Elise do not heat the tube filament  but povide signal  to grid / cathode and povide power for the plate. (ultra simplified explanation) . For more, give a look here for triode explanation and here for how tube amp works. 
  
 I hope you enjoy your Elise...


----------



## UntilThen

That's great Hpa. You're an electronics guy too.  Thanks for answering.
  
 Ok for 2) if you look at my picture of the FDD20 setup, I've the power adapter feeding positive and negative into that one FDD20 adapter. I need to know how to then feed into the other adapter.
  
 For 4) I've been powering Elise up first then the 12V. So far no fireworks yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't power up at the same time because Elise is on the desk and the 12V power point is on the floor unless I use my hand and feet in coordination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm having such a ball with Elise. She sounds incredible. However I must say this oddball combination of FDD20 and ECC31 is what gets me right now. The sound is addictive. It's so distinctly clear and every note hits you. High, mid and low. You get swarm by the full orchestra. It's frightening. I've heard 'Smooth Operator' a long time ago but when I hear it from this combo I was startled at the notes that hits me. You need to try it.
  
 I forget to mention the soundstage...HUGE.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Okay...we talked UT through it, so I'm sure we can get you going too. I will take it to PM to discuss how to externally heat the FDD20.


 

 Yes if I can do it following JV's instructions, anyone can. I was clueless when I started.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> That's great Hpa. You're an electronics guy too.  Thanks for answering.
> 
> Ok for 2) if you look at my picture of the FDD20 setup, I've the power adapter feeding positive and negative into that one FDD20 adapter. I need to know how to then feed into the other adapter.


 
 I fyou want you just have to mount in paralelle the two tube adapter plugged to your single power adapter !
 You can use this 
 if you need a cleaner stuff, you can solder or use pin or flat  connector like : (female on the power adapter and male from the tube adapter.. )


----------



## UntilThen

Interesting. Colourful connectors and neat. Not sure if I am headed in the right direction with 2 FDD20 and worth the trouble. Pretty sure if the ECC31 is removed, the bass is no longer as dramatic and that's one thing that gets me. However in the name of discovery and comparison I shall try it out. I think though 2 FDD20 with 2 5998 might be interesting. JV reckons too. That's what I want to hear.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys...dang this time difference!...I go to my bed and suddenly a whole load of pages appear, and I'm left behind lol! (Not that I'm complaining...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Have a few(?!!) words to say, but will have to dash just now. However, before I go I must put the record straight re the early days of the FDD20...sorry if I wasn't very clear a while ago, JV, but it turned out gibosi had been coincidentally looking at the RVC at the same time as me, and acquired his own tube(s). By the time I'd managed to adapt my own, he was able to pip me to the post with getting his in his Glenn...
  
 More later today...if I can catch up, that is!!


----------



## UntilThen

^^ I remember that and I was thinking to myself that the Glenn amp is very versatile to accept the FDD20 without the need for 12V. Not only that it accepts C3G too.
  
 H1, my shift is over. It's over to you guys now. It's night time for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We need an international rotation here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I marvel at you guys. Nearly one year on and you're still as keen on Elise. Time will tell if it's the same for me. !!!
  
 So this in German means tube ! - Röhre


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 1> How do you supply 12V to 2 FDD20?
> 
> 2> What's the best way to remove the grey paint on the FDD20?
> 
> ...




Your answers from hpamdr are perfectly correct....and I will add:

1> Were going to supply 2nd FDD20 the same way as 1 - same 12v supply can provide juice to both. You can either have it run from one FDD20, out to the other (how I will do it) or you can have 2 wires from supply become 4, then 2ea out to the (2) FDD20's. It won't be hard...not to worry 

2> I used steel wool only (dampened ever so slightly) and it comes right off, quick and easy)

3> Pins 7 and 8 on the adapter are what usually bring 6.3v in from Elise to power a "normal" tube. Since we use our own heater supply, we don't want the Elise juice, so we cut off pins 7 and 8 (and then use some black fingernail polish on the metal ends where they were, to ensure no electrical conductivity). I suspect Elise uses AC to heat regular tubes, we are using DC and the two don't mix, so don't forget to cut off pins 7 and 8 (use a dremel, takes 3 seconds) and cover the metal ends 

4> I can't image it matters at all. I usually power up FDD20 1st, then Elise but probably no order is required.

5> With pins 7 and 8 removed, the Elise is not involved in heating the FDD20 filament, at all, so no current draw from Elise via FDD20.

Also note UT, I drilled the two holes in your adapter. Without that, the 12v in drapes in over the top of the adapter...in 'waterfall' fashion.

I am talking to the China adapter makers and showing what we are doing and asking if they can offer an "External Heat" version of the adapter. Were having some language problems...but making some progress. I hope I am making it clear that we want heater wires out the back and no connections to Octal pins 7 and 8....ugh!

Also...I am going to try 2x FDD20 and 5998's. The FDD20 gets better and better goes MUCH deeper, after many hours of burn in. You ain't heard nuttin' until after 200 hours...

Maybe it won't be superior to the combo, but we'll see, eventually 

.


----------



## nephilim

Can I burn in those fdd20 by taking them out of the amp and simply connecting them to the power supply?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tube adapter mfg in China thinks we mean we want external wires through the guide pin, into the amp (see photo)
Still trying to get them to understand our need...



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Can I burn in those fdd20 by taking them out of the amp and simply connecting them to the power supply?




Hello Neph...

Yeppers, and what I plan to do to get get some time on my incoming FDD20.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I sent this to adapter maker...we'll see if we understand


----------



## JazzVinyl

Adapter builder says 'he has it', is going to build one, I will buy it, and if it's right, he will build more.


----------



## mordy

Hi,

"If necessity is the mother of invention, where do all unnecessary inventions come from?"

Anyhow - WORLD PREMIERE DRIVING THE ELISE WITH 8 VOLT TUBES:

Since i had the old 9pin socket extenders from the Little Dot modified for an external 15A power supply with a 15A voltage regulator, I realized that the 9pin to 6SN7 socket adapters could be used in conjunction with these.

Furthermore, I realized that by building an adapter skyscraper using three building blocks - 9pinto6SN7, 9pin socket extender to external voltage supply + 6SN7to9pin adapter, I could use 12V octal tubes as drivers (12SN7 that I have on hand) as well as 1.5A 6BL7 using 6.3V.

Started out with a pair of Hit-Ray 8FQ7/8CG7 tubes (Japanese Hitachi labeled Raytheon) and just the first two adapters - don't need the third one since these are 9pin tubes. Everything works fine, everything sounds good in the Elise. These tubes are very quiet, but the sound is a little thin - very detailed, good sound stage, but the no heft in the bass; a little bright.

But the main thing is that this exercise proves that the concept works. 

Nu vistas just opened - no I can use 1.5A 6BL7 tubes as drivers without any worries....

Member of CTRA (Compulsive Tube Rolling Addiction) society. But the voltage regulator only goes up to 20V - no WWII bomber 26V tubes - got to leave something for Gibosi and the Glenn lol...


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, we need a charter for CTRA membership. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JV, thanks for being painstakingly thorough in your answers to my questions. It turned out that due to eBay going nuts yesterday, I clicked to buy 3 times when I was travelling in the car. Now I have a stockpile of 5 new FDD20 coming. The 5th tube has free postage from the seller for my being a fantastic customer. It appears he has a never ending supplies. So we're good on FDD20. Next version of Elise does indeed need to cater for FDD20 I think. It's sound signature is very unique.
  
 JV those adapters in the making from China should be great if it works out. I shouldn't have bought my adapters yet. Maybe I'll write to Mrs. Yuling to exchange for gold plated ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters. Did you communicate with her or another supplier?
  
 My FDD20 has 10 hours now and is sounding so good. So in 200 hours I imagine it's 20 times as good.....


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Haha. Hopefully it will be a scream of enjoyment, and not a scream of oh-no-what-have-I-done-everything-is-broken. I'm not sure of my DIY capabilities, but I will definitely give it a try.


 
  
 Well done Suuup...but fear not - any doubts/questions whatsoever JV and I are here to try and keep you on the straight and narrow, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wish you good luck for a painless journey...
  


untilthen said:


> This is ridiculous. Smooth Operator has so much bite and sound live now. The drums and instruments are so crystal clear and has zing. Sade's voice is just so smooth and tantalising. You really need to try out FDD20 / ECC31 on an Elise. Just put on a pair of Chatham 6AS7G power tubes with it and use a HE560. The realism is astounding.
> 
> Elise is now really worth $2000 with this sound !




  
 Ssssshhhhh UT....we don't want another price hike just yet, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but you're absolutely right!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And if you want to hear more of this combo's power, just get hold of the music soundtrack from 'Gladiator' and turn up the wick on the 'Battle' track...unbelievable!!
  


citizenlin said:


> Hello UT. Congrats to you #22. You all are doing wonderful job. I am enjoying every combinations of tubes. 5998/2399/ 7236 with C3gs/6n7g/6sn7 but seem like fdd20/ecc31 is a must have !!!!! hmmmmmm. This is the reason I've been away from here... my poor wallet...
> 
> 
> *Only thing I can contribute right now is Elise super hp amp for money but even better as preamp on home setup. I wonder any of you use her as preamp and how do they sound in your system.


 
  
 I know mordy uses her mainly as preamp, and is highly impressed with the results. I sometimes patch her through to my Vincent integrated and Dynaudio speakers, and all I can say is... _*totally mind-blowing!!!*_ Trouble is, as my Dynaudios are only the smaller ones, watching the ECC31's bass nearly pushing the mid/bass drivers into the middle of the room gives me a heart attack...am now probably gonna have to spend a whole pile on some beefier speakers, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Good price. Mine are new at Eur22 each. Anyone needs FDD20 I can let 2 go but otherwise no problem I'll stockpile it.
> 
> Got 2 adapters too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed UT. There is most definitely something 'magical' going on with the FDD20/ECC31 combination...I believe it's called "synergy"!!...sometimes a word used a tad too often IMHO, but in this case I believe it to be a perfect example of the term - all the more so given the scepticism it managed to generate recently! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...But I never really doubted it for a moment. The moment I heard the FDD20 in the Elise I knew there was something special going on...especially once it had burned in a good while. It seemed a no-brainer to see just how it would pair with an ECC31...and the rest is history, as they say...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Interesting. Colourful connectors and neat. Not sure if I am headed in the right direction with 2 FDD20 and worth the trouble. Pretty sure if the ECC31 is removed, the bass is no longer as dramatic and that's one thing that gets me. However in the name of discovery and comparison I shall try it out. I think though 2 FDD20 with 2 5998 might be interesting. JV reckons too. That's what I want to hear.


 
  
 Must admit I didn't find 2x FDD20s quite matching the combo...but I now realise this was with the second tube not fully burned in. Perhaps with more time - and 5998s! - the picture might be different, lol!
  


nephilim said:


> Can I burn in those fdd20 by taking them out of the amp and simply connecting them to the power supply?


 
  
 Hi neph.
  
 There seem to be differing opinions on this...with only the heaters powered and no grid/cathode signal to the (un) powered anodes is there going to be much "burn-in", I wonder?...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV those adapters in the making from China should be great if it works out. I shouldn't have bought my adapters yet. Maybe I'll write to Mrs. Yuling to exchange for gold plated ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters. Did you communicate with her or another supplier?
> 
> My FDD20 has 10 hours now and is sounding so good. So in 200 hours I imagine it's 20 times as good.....:blink:




I am dealing with seller "xulingmrs"
And guarantee the FDD20 get better, then better again, then better again


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I am dealing with seller "xulingmrs"
> And guarantee the FDD20 get better, then better again, then better again


 
  
 Hi JV...WELL DONE! on hopefully getting that modified adapter in production...let's pray he (she?!) has indeed grasped exactly the requirement. That will make things a good bit easier and neater for people...good work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Am still amazed at just how this tube changes/improves over _extended_ time...always thought it was only the Voskhods in the early LittleDot rolling days that needed a lifetime to really shine, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and not only in itself, but also how it "synergises" even further with the ECC31...that very rare thing - a _*perfect*_ marriage, lol!!


----------



## UntilThen

It's weird that on my HD650 (with the 2031 combo) sometimes there's a very slight faint hum on the left but it's not always. Sometimes there's no noise at all. When I detect that faint hum on the HD650, I switch to HE560 as I'm doing now and immediately it's whisper quiet. This happens yesterday as well. It appears the HiFiman HE560 is resistant to hum. Amazing. I really like HE560 with Elise now. It's clearly superior in sound image and clairty to HD650 with this package. However the HE560 belongs to my son....he's enjoying my DV336se now and using one of my 5998 with the Marconi 6N7 and being pretty impressed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I let him listen on Elise and he goes hmmm and smile.
  
 So the next headphone purchase would be interesting for me. Is it going to be a HE560 or T1g2 or HD800s or one of the LCD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Hmmm switching back to HD650 there is a slight left ear hum again. Why's that? Why does it only sound on HD650 and not HE560? I've been switching headphones a few times now to confirm.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I know mordy uses her mainly as preamp, and is highly impressed with the results. I sometimes patch her through to my Vincent integrated and Dynaudio speakers, and all I can say is... _*totally mind-blowing!!!*_ Trouble is, as my Dynaudios are only the smaller ones, watching the ECC31's bass nearly pushing the mid/bass drivers into the middle of the room gives me a heart attack...am now probably gonna have to spend a whole pile on some beefier speakers, lol!!


 
 I'll be trying Elise as a preamp on my lovely floor standing Axis LS88 in D'Appolito Configuration and LS28 2-way Aussie made speakers when I get the time !!!
 I'm too busy in headphone world at the moment.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Ssssshhhhh UT....we don't want another price hike just yet, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, this track indeed shows off Elise's prowess with FDD20/ECC31. An absolute treat. Just as another comparison I switch back to 2 ECC31 and listen to the same track again and whilst the bass is just as thunderous, the upper mids and highs are certainly not as distinctly clear as the FDD20/ECC31 pair.
  
 In fact now listening to 2 ECC31 there seems to be an over emphasis on bass whereas with the FDD20/ECC31, you get a linear presentation with equal emphasis on the whole frequency spectrum.


----------



## mordy

Hi,

Just finished the 8V experiment; now to making an adapter skyscraper! With a pair of Sylvania 6BL7 tubes this contraption reaches the clouds, I mean, I can barely fit it inside my equipment shelf - not much clearance, but I managed to squeeze it in.

Question: How long can you drive a 6.3V tube at 8.4V?

Answer: I don't know, but the short moments it was at the wrong voltage, until I realized my error, did not kill the tubes.

This is one of the pitfalls of being able to vary the voltages. In your excitement to roll a new tube, you may forget to change the voltage. Definitively on of the symptoms of CTRA.

This tube is a winner on many fronts. I cannot think of any tube that is so resolving of differences in recordings - it shows everything, warts an all. It occurs to me that a recording engineer would want something like this to monitor and edit a recording; it highlights every nuance of the recording. Revealing to an extreme. Tonality is very good, and the extension in the bass, and especially in the treble, is great. This tube has a very balanced presentation.

Just played a recording that was not recorded that well. Whereas the 6N7G manages to blend the two channels into a glorious sound stage, these tubes projected the two channels like the beams from a car's headlights - two separate sound images. But only because that's how it was recorded. Another recording had a very nice and coherent sound stage, because that's how it was recorded.

So we are in analytical land. Great detail and tonality, but not a gloriously wide sound stage and more analytical than musical. If you like listening to the 6BL7 depends on your taste and mood.

It appears to me that it shares many qualities with the Chatham 6AS7G as far as the detailed layers of the sound goes. You should be able to pick up a pair in the bargain stores for less than $10 shipped.

With the external heaters for the driver tubes the Elise runs exceptionally cool. The tubes are very quiet, even though the volume need to be higher than the other drivers due to the lower amplification factor. With a lot of tubes I get a pronounced hum using my headphones, but these don't hum at all. My WAF is very low for listening to drum solos at loud volume over my speakers - good that I found this way of listening without hum lol.

Cheers,

PS. Blown away by my headphone experience now - Yamaha MT-220


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> It's weird that on my HD650 (with the 2031 combo) sometimes there's a very slight faint hum on the left but it's not always. Sometimes there's no noise at all. When I detect that faint hum on the HD650, I switch to HE560 as I'm doing now and immediately it's whisper quiet. This happens yesterday as well. It appears the HiFiman HE560 is resistant to hum. Amazing. I really like HE560 with Elise now. It's clearly superior in sound image and clairty to HD650 with this package. However the HE560 belongs to my son....he's enjoying my DV336se now and using one of my 5998 with the Marconi 6N7 and being pretty impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Funny you should say that about the 650s...I too can get a faint trace of hum with them (Edit..and not just with the combo!), and yet nada from the T1s...???


----------



## UntilThen

I haven't listen to DV336se since Elise came and that's been 4 days. I had a listen to the DV336se again yesterday and it's shocking how good Elise sounds compared to the DV now.
  
 With FDD20/ECC31 and Chatham 6AS7G or C3G with 5998, Elise's bass weight and impact is clearly superior to the DV on ECC31/5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. Yes I was trying to create an even playing field with good tubes on the DV but there's clearly no comparison.
  
 I'll stop bashing the DV because it's an amp I used to love and still have fond memories. Maybe bad memories. Look at what it got me into with more tubes. 2 drawers are full now !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm sharing this re my experience with hum using the 12V AC adapter for FDD20 and how I overcome it.
  
 Using this AC adapter with a thicker ground wire to the RCA connection (left) on the back of Elise solve the hum issue. It is completely silent now even with my HD650. Happiness. This AC adapter looks like the laptop version except mine is 12V 3A which is the ideal. Laptop is 19V which could be a problem.

  
  
 This AC adapter cause a slight left Headphone speaker hum. Not sure why but it has thinner wires. Ground cable is use in both scenario.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm sharing this re my experience with hum using the 12V AC adapter for FDD20 and how I overcome it.




Glad you have it solved, UT...

I have been lucky in that I have no hum at all after adding a ground wire to the Elise Chassis.

Surprised at your grounded 12v supply, would have thought no extra ground wire would have been needed.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9U7-8NS_Tk[/VIDEO]

Friday night fun


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hl5ai1GYQSE[/VIDEO]

More fun


----------



## UntilThen

^^ Lol is that a Led Zeppelin clone.
  
 Meanwhile I have decided to check out more conventional tubes. That is if you would consider the 7N7 conventional. It is a Loktal base type hence need a 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter to work in Elise. These are mostly manufactured by Sylvania. Predecessor tubes are 6F8G and successor tubes are 6CG7 and 6FQ7. 7N7 matches early 6SN7.
  
 In this combination it is very good with clarity, details and sounds sweet. Whilst not in the same league as the C3G, it is a cheaper alternative to expensive 6SN7 and adapters are plentiful on eBay. I got my pair of 7N7 for $32 NOS NIB.
  
*7N7 Raytheon and Tung Sol 5998*


----------



## UntilThen

*FDD20 / ECC31 with Tung Sol 5998*
  
_This shall be simply call 'Fur Elise'. In her hands, she has a bow on the left and quivers on the right._
  
 I've always pair 20/31 with Chatham 6AS7G. This is the 1st time I have it in this pairing. I said earlier that 2 ECC31 with 5998 was my near end game tubes and I call that Elise with Fireball. Now substituting one ECC31 for a FDD20, I'm certain this is it for me. Best synergy with HE560. I have tame the HE560 brightness, replacing it with details, clarity and warmth plus thunderous bass. I wish I had a HD800 with me now. I have a great hunch HD800 will be perfect with this setup. It will be massive soundstage, not that HD800 soundstage need any help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's now time to sit back and just enjoy Elise in this setup. You can see in the photo I have a super Laptop that is powered by tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I crack up with this hahahaha.


----------



## UntilThen

*HiFiMan HE560 sound signature and how the deficiencies are addressed with Elise + choice tubes*
  
 I'm going to borrow quotes from Jerg whose comprehensive review of HE560 is simply spot on.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 This is what he said:-
  
*Treble*
 
While the midrange and bass have some back-and-forth in terms of their performance relative to contenders, _*HE560’s treble is sublime.*_
And out of all the headphones I’ve had the pleasure of hearing, only HE560, Code-X, and well-driven HD800s fully achieve that degree of treble finesse.
 
*Midrange*
 
For me, HE560’s midrange is a complex matter creature. Right off the bat though, two traits that are very apparent are that their midrange is highly transparent, and just as open-sounding, as these are innate traits of the midrange signature that I find to be constants. Harmonic distortions in the midrange for HE560s are extraordinarily low from measurements that are posted thus far, which coincides with the subjective transparency.
 
_*The intrigue, however, lies in its tonality; HE560s can sound neutral, bright, organic, dry, thin, dynamic to different people. *_Frequency response-wise, HE560 has a slight recession around 2kHz and rise around 5kHz, which by definition gives them attack/edge yet still somewhat laid back, and that is what I observe in music too.
 
Regardless of tonal balance, HE560’s mids are fast, really fast. There is little to no bloom, and midrange detail is rendered with startling realism.
 
*Bass*
 
_*The word I would use to describe HE560’s bass is “disciplined”. *_It is a very technically capable bass, with excellent extension, tightness / low distortion, quickness, and lack of colouration; at the same time, it is never out of line in terms of volume relative to midrange or treble, always presenting itself in adequate quantity when the music calls for it.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
So from the above it's apparent HE560 treble is good. Mid range and Bass needs some help *depending on who hears it *and Jerg then goes on to explain the use of his mod for the earpads to address those issues.
 
Now this is where I firmly believe Elise with FDD20/ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998 can and has help to address those issues too. _*HE560 in it's stock form on a Schitt Modi2 Uber and Magni2 Uber has those mid range and bass issues for me. *_Mids sounded a bit recess and bass is shy although is abundant in quality.
 
_With Elise and those tubes, HE560 mid-range now has that extra edge in openness and a larger soundstage almost approaching speaker like qualities. Mid-range is also projected more forward and has that added attack that makes vocals sound glorious. HE560 bass is now not just disciplined (which is a polite way of saying it's not like it's sibling the HE500 where the bass has impact) but has impact, force and extensions deep low. Finally as good as the treble on the HE560 is, Elise with 2031/5998 lift the game even more on treble. What I have now is HE560 in the form of an ideal headphone for me. In a word perfect._
 
_The only problem is the headphone clamp. It feels tight and hurting after more than an hour whereas on the HD650 I can listen for 4 hours and not feel it. Nobody does it better than Sennheiser when it comes to comfort and fit not even the DT880 which I had._


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It's now time to sit back and just enjoy Elise in this setup. You can see in the photo I have a super Laptop that is powered by tubes.




Hello UT,

Your doing a great job in reporting the sound quality attributes with Elise and various tube combinations.

I really appreciate them, and please, keep them coming!

You have a lot more tubes to try, when the notion hits ya 

--JV--


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Sorry DL, you were referring to C3g/GE 6AS7GA. Again this is let down by the GE in comparison with the other power tubes on the list you mention. It isn't bad. It's just in comparison, the others are clearly better IMO.
> 
> However if you pair C3G / 5998, yes this is my next favourite combination, next to the ECC31 / 5998.
> 
> ...


 
 Your help has been outstanding! I'm still slowly trying to grasp everything here and lurking on the sidelines. Boy 97 messages in 3 days may be unsurmountable to read. 
  
 But probably by the time I'm ready for this amp I'll recon these c3G adapters may be available somewhere. I will also be interested to make my own FDD20 (#1) setup down the line


----------



## aqsw

Anybody have an fdd20 they would like to sell?

Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *HiFiMan HE560 sound signature and how the deficiencies are addressed with Elise + choice tubes*
> 
> I'm going to borrow quotes from Jerg whose comprehensive review of HE560 is simply spot on.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...so where do you go from here then in your search for cans, mon ami?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those HE560s sound _really_ good from what you describe...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Looks like you're gonna have to haul the poor gal across half Australia to check out a whole pile of alternatives, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And when you do, be sure to give us all the lowdown on your findings..._or else!!!_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS! ...and GOOD LUCK!
  


decentlevi said:


> Your help has been outstanding! I'm still slowly trying to grasp everything here and lurking on the sidelines. Boy 97 messages in 3 days may be unsurmountable to read.
> 
> But probably by the time I'm ready for this amp I'll recon these c3G adapters may be available somewhere. I will also be interested to make my own FDD20 (#1) setup down the line


 
  
 Hi DL...you never know re those C3g adapters, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and if JV's quest for the modified FDD20 adapters works out OK, hopefully you will indeed have a go with them...they are truly wonderful in the Elise - (especially in combination with an ECC31, in case you hadn't noticed!!... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). This tube is in no way "just another 6N7G"...it's in a class of its own...
  


aqsw said:


> Anybody have an fdd20 they would like to sell?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Hi aqsw...if there's no-one in your part of the World, I can probably help you out...


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Anybody have an fdd20 they would like to sell?
> Thanks




PM sent


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...you never know re those C3g adapters, lol!  :wink_face: ...and if JV's quest for the modified FDD20 adapters works out OK, hopefully you will indeed have a go with them...they are truly wonderful in the Elise - (especially in combination with an ECC31, in case you hadn't noticed!!...  ). This tube is in no way "just another 6N7G"...it's in a class of its own...




H1 is right...the FDD20 is not "just another 6N7G variant" when it comes to sound quality.

I have not heard anything else from the FDD20 adapter makers, but will update everyone here, when I do.

Cheers!

.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys...how does a GEC/Osram, brown *curved**-bottom* base A1834 (6AS7G) *NOS* for £65 sound to you?...Unbelievable?...YES!!
  
 On this Halloween day, the Gods have indeed (at last!) smiled upon me. Following "mordy's mantra" when searching for bargains - plus my own addition : *luck, luck and more luck!* - I have indeed managed to bag aforesaid tube, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...how?...by searching on a specific ebay site, rather than just my UK or .com - ie. ebay.de (Germany) - and searching for just "6AS7G", I could not believe my eyes when I saw the very tube I mentioned a while back that a lucky member on 'For 6AS7G rollers here' discovered...ie. a Haltron 6AS7G. Usually these rebrands are the cheap Russian variant, hence not too many probably bother with them. But its "smell" was pure GEC - especially when a close look at the brown base showed it to be _curved_!
 Well, when I saw the early bids at 3 Euros, I couldn't believe my luck - it appeared possibly no-one had yet recognised just what it was!
  
 Anyway, as the bidding was still not very high minutes before the end, I whacked in a max bid of 120 Euros in the last seconds...and got it!!!...Edit : for *90* Euros!
  
 I am so sorry if I beat anyone here to it...but I just had to try lol! And so, folks, this just shows that miracles _can_ happen...if you're _very_ lucky! OK, so I didn't get it for $15....but you ain't NEVER gonna get one of these rare beauties NOS (or used!) for that...no matter how lucky you are, methinks...the item in question...
  

  
 Better get some dinner under way...almost too excited to eat though!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys...how does a GEC/Osram, brown *curved**-bottom* base A1834 (6AS7G) *NOS* for £65 sound to you?...Unbelievable?...YES!!
> 
> On this Halloween day, the Gods have indeed (at last!) smiled upon me.
> 
> Better get some dinner under way...almost too excited to eat though!!!




WOW!!!

Congrats H1...!!

Lucky indeed


----------



## UntilThen

The thread is so exciting. Every time I come on it's alive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks JV. Tube rolling and listening is now no longer tedious for me. As far as listening to sonic characteristics of tube, my rationale is, if you cannot detect anything worthy on just a listen of your favourite songs then there's nothing much to write about. However with some tubes it has been easy. You hear it straight away, there's no need to strain to hear it. Some worthy examples tubes are C3G, ECC31, FDD20, 6N7G, 7N7, 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080.
  
 Hi H1, indeed it would be hard to pick a better headphone now than the HE560. When the time comes I'll take Elise and tubes with me to my favourite shop in Sydney where I can audition all the TOTL headphones with the exception of LCDs. HE560 other attributes are comfort and style which I rate very highly. It's very hard to love LCD because of the size although I love how it looks with those real wood. It's a piece of art. HD800 is an amazing feat in engineering. The shape is so unusual and I heard it's the most comfortable headphone and that is very important for long hours of use. Of course who cannot be impress with the Beyer sound. When I audition my first headphone, I tried HD650, HD600 and DT880 250ohms. I walk out with the DT880. I can only imagine T1 being in a separate class all together. So yeah, it will be harder choosing headphones than choosing a tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Aqsw, I'm sure the others will help you out with the FDD20. If not remember I will have 6 in my possession soon. That's how much I love them and I didn't get them for 3 for $30. The German seller is now my best friend. He loves me although we cannot understand each other completely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WOW H1. The other day I was bidding on a A1834 too. It's describe as A1834 YB Z rectifier tube. I was puzzled at first why it's call a rectifier tube. Is this not a GEC 6AS7G? Anyway I let it go because it is not tested and finally the bidding close at GBP97 I think. It's new though. What you have got is really good. I'm so envious. I will have GEC 6AS7G someday. Maybe even Western Electric 421A if I'm crazy enough. Grasp there's also the ECC32. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 DecentLevi, it's my pleasure and thank you for those kind words. Certainly try ECC31, C3G, FDD20 for drivers and Tung Sol 5998, Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080 for powers. I didn't have Bendix 6080 and GEC 6080. Those are also on my hunting list. All I can say is take it easy with Elise. She will surprise you out of the box with stock tubes. However she only really come alive with those tubes I mentioned. What an incredible journey this has been for me. I was so doubtful of Elise before I got her. Now I can tell anyone with a complete degree of certainty that she is certainly worth more than $649. I hope Lukasz isn't reading this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This is the A1834 I was talking about.


----------



## whirlwind

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys...how does a GEC/Osram, brown *curved**-bottom* base A1834 (6AS7G) *NOS* for £65 sound to you?...Unbelievable?...YES!!
> 
> On this Halloween day, the Gods have indeed (at last!) smiled upon me. Following "mordy's mantra" when searching for bargains - plus my own addition : *luck, luck and more luck!* - I have indeed managed to bag aforesaid tube, lol!!
> 
> ...


 
 Great snag.....these are wonderful tubes, to say the least.


----------



## nephilim

Congrats H1! Great deal 
  
 I just tried the FDD20/ECC31 combination together with the 5998... and I immediately felt that the ECC31 channel has much more bottom and sounds juicier. Towards the upper frequencies the differences are less pronounced and yield a nicely expanded soundstage with a pretty sparkle. However, I always think that the FDD20 ear is half-deaf due to the leaner bass... Maybe the FDD20 is simply not burned in enough?
  
 Anyway... going back to the Mazda tonight (before Elise's short vacation in Poland). The first(!) impression was that they seem to be more bass-heavy than the FIvre - a bit like the ECC31 with a sledgehammer behind the back.


----------



## UntilThen

H1 Nep, if you're grounding via the left RCA connection, be sure that the RCA plug is fully in. It can be tricky now with the ground wire in it to make contact fully. That is my observation. If it's not contacting properly, you get no sound on left channel, if it's contacting but not fully, your left will sound softer. What I did was use a thinner ground wire.
  
 However if you're not grounding in that manner then it's interesting you're hearing differences because I detect no differences other than a stereo image. In fact you can clearly hear instruments from left centre right and picture where all the musicians are standing.
  
 My FDD20 has less than 20hours now but it's not showing any of that effects. I try a great variety of songs. I shall do a more thorough listen.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I just did a Channel ID / Phase test and Balance test and Subwoofer crossover test using my Chesky Records 10 Best album.
 Yes I do a lot of such testing when I was competing in car sound system. Even have 3 trophies LOL.
  
 If you have such a test album try it. My test has conclusively proof that:-
  
 Channel ID / Phase Test - Passed
 Balance test - Passed
 Subwoofer crossover - OMG these are not subwoofers but sure feels like one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This album:-
 Track 12 - Channel ID /Phase Test
 Track 13 - Balance Test
 Track 14 - Pink noice (~20 dBFS)
 Track 15 - Subwoofer crossover test


----------



## nephilim

Hmm, I have no additional ground wire - just the plus & minus from the 12V supply, where the minus is already linked to earth. I also did not notice that something is missing when I have both FDD20 running - it's just the slightly leaner bass of the FDD20 channel compared to the ECC31 channel which shifts the lower end to the ECC31 ear. I will swap FDD20 & ECC31 to check if the impression follows the channel change. Interestingly all of us put the FDD20 to the left channel


----------



## UntilThen

I did mine to the left because it's a shorter route to the RCA connection. I have to ground too or else I get hum.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks guys...I must admit I never dreamt this kind of thing could happen again - especially with this particular tube being the Holy Grail of Holy Grails lol!! (Even if some would say the curved-bottom base tube sounds no different to the straight-bottom!).
  
 So have a go using these strategies...you never know your luck!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## nephilim

Just swapped channels... and the bass moved towards the other ear, too. It's more centered now than before - obviously my ears are not identical


----------



## UntilThen

Which song do you listen to for that test Nep? I'll try it too. I wouldn't be surprise if for most of us our ears are not totally identical in sound reception. A check with the specialist will prove that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is why I think the La Figaro 339 is great. It's dual mono. You have right and left channels volume controls.


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> Congrats H1! Great deal
> 
> I just tried the FDD20/ECC31 combination together with the 5998... and I immediately felt that the ECC31 channel has much more bottom and sounds juicier. Towards the upper frequencies the differences are less pronounced and yield a nicely expanded soundstage with a pretty sparkle. However, I always think that the FDD20 ear is half-deaf due to the leaner bass... Maybe the FDD20 is simply not burned in enough?
> 
> Anyway... going back to the Mazda tonight (before Elise's short vacation in Poland). The first(!) impression was that they seem to be more bass-heavy than the FIvre - a bit like the ECC31 with a sledgehammer behind the back.


 
 Hi neph.
  
 I personally found it took quite a long while for the bass to even out. Also, I found I had to change my first ECC31 for another, as it was obviously a _very _strong tube and was dominating the FDD20. Once these two factors were resolved, I found no imbalance at any end of the frequency range.
  
 ps.  I have in fact found more imbalance between two of my 31s, compared to the 20/31 combo!
  
 Hope you manage to even things out in your own system...but remember it might well take up to 100+ hrs to get there, lol!


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> Just swapped channels... and the bass moved towards the other ear, too. It's more centered now than before - obviously my ears are not identical


 

 I suspect very few people's ears _are_ in fact identical, n!


----------



## UntilThen

This is another CD for testing purposes. It has left / right channel test and the various Hz test. Also a piano chord in mono. I'll do more testing for sure. Now I'm even more keen to dig deep into this.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Which song do you listen to for that test Nep? I'll try it too. I wouldn't be surprise if for most of us our ears are not totally identical in sound reception. A check with the specialist will prove that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes indeed UT...a very useful feature of the LF!
  
 Mind you, with probably all our 4 tubes hardly ever in exactly even strength, a judicious swapping around in trial and error would probably do the trick in most cases, I suspect.
  
 This is obviously what the Feliks-Audio guys do (but using more scientific measurement, lol!) when numbering the specific position for each tube...is that service above and beyond the call of duty, or what?!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed UT...a very useful feature of the LF!
> 
> Mind you, with probably all our 4 tubes hardly ever in exactly even strength, a judicious swapping around in trial and error would probably do the trick in most cases, I suspect.
> 
> This is obviously what the Feliks-Audio guys do (but using more scientific measurement, lol!) when numbering the specific position for each tube...is that service above and beyond the call of duty, or what?!


 

 That's so true what you said H1.
  
 Now there's clearly a reason why Feliks Audio so painstakingly numbered those tubes and numbered the sockets for it to go into. I knew there had to be a reason.
  
 Also with 2 ECC31 one would assume they are 100% identical but are they? A look at some test results for tubes show different strength. Not just ECC31, for that matter any other pairs. If really critical then yes go for matched pairs however I have not felt the need. My ears are more forgiving BUT if the difference is a lot I would have heard it.
  
 With FDD20/ECC31 what I'm hearing now is superb imaging and clarity. Annie Lennox voice is right in front me. Vocals are projected forward and commanding. Backing singers to the left and some instruments to the right. Mid bass is pounding in my chest dead centre and sub bass is simply felt. This is 'Whiter Shade of Pale'. Incredible.
  
 Sub bass is not localised. That's why you need not place your subwoofer in the centre. It can be in the left or right corner and you will feel it. My Definitive Technology 12" sub in the right corner caused my wall clock to come tumbling down and crash watching 'Saving Private Ryan' !!! Maybe I should wire the sub to my headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

*RCA JAN 1635 / Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 For a start, this is a no, no. I have to crank the volume knob to 4 o'clock to get a satisfying listen. It actually sounded OK at that volume. I have to thank this tube though because with it I was able to crank Elise to 5 o'clock which is where it starts to distort and obviously at max it distorts badly...buzzing sound creeps in. So there you have it. Don't use 1635 or else you might blow Elise up with that volume setting at extended listening sessions. With all other tubes, even with 2 ECC31 and 5998 on HE560, I've never gone beyond 12 o'clock(LOUD). With HD650 the max I can go to is 10 o'clock(LOUD). Anything more will surely damage my ears.


----------



## Suuup

As H1, I too might have stumbled upon a winning lottery ticket. I bought 5 tubes from a UK seller. He thought he was selling 6N7G tubes, but they looked quite like ECC31 to me. Right now H1 is listening to them, and preliminary reports indicate that it is indeed ECC31's. 

If I'm right, I got 5 ECC31 for the cost of 5 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Suuup. That's amazing !!!
  
 You guys are getting good at buying and finding gold nuggets at peanuts prices.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Just swapped channels... and the bass moved towards the other ear, too. It's more centered now than before - obviously my ears are not identical




Hello Neph...

What cans do you use?

And you must have a strong ECC31 that has more gain than the FDD20, as I can detect no directionality in that LOW LOW bass that the ECC31 brings to the party.

And definitely, the bas comes on stronger and deeper, with more time, on the FDD20.

.


----------



## UntilThen

*Fotons 6N8S or 6H8C with 5998  -  ( I call this Elise Dubstep )*
  
 This came free from Renderman when I bought the C3Gs from him. So I have to thank him for the opportunity to try these Fotons. No hums in Elise though these hum loudly on my DV.
  
 I broke into a big smile when I heard Dire Straits 'Money for Nothing' with these. Volume up and I was rocking in my chair literally. Mid and bass hits you like a truck, the latter especially. Immediately I thought of Dubstep even though I don't listen to that. True enough I found some Dubstep songs on Tidal and I was grinning from cheek to cheek.
  
 Next I put on a drum solo with lots of toms and kick drums and this tubes hit like Thor's hammer.
  
 Next 'Lady in Black' by Uriah Heep live at Koko version. Boy I haven't heard this song since my younger days. 
 Oooh yay....'ah ah ah haaaaa ah ha ah ha,
  
_'She came to me one morning, one lonely Sunday morning_
_Her long hair flowing in the mid winter wind_
_I know not how she found me, for in darkness I was walking_
_And destruction lay around me from a fight I could not win.'_
  
 I tried more delicate female vocal tunes and it's sounded not as polish. A little raw. Still listenable.
  
 Conclusion:- These are exciting dubsteps and rock and roll tubes. So much raw energy. It's even forgiving with lesser recordings. I think you should have a pair when you want to hit the dance floor. You'll impress any girl or boy. !!!
  
 I find these Fotons to be mid and bass centric especially the latter. Forget Dr. Beats. Get this and even your HD800 will sound good with Dubstep.


----------



## Suuup

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-C3g-Pentodo-SIMENS-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/281840822017?hash=item419f05a701:g:zjcAAOSwgQ9V6AHd&rmvSB=true
  
 What's the catch?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> As H1, I too might have stumbled upon a winning lottery ticket. I bought 5 tubes from a UK seller. He thought he was selling 6N7G tubes, but they looked quite like ECC31 to me. Right now H1 is listening to them, and preliminary reports indicate that it is indeed ECC31's.
> 
> If I'm right, I got 5 ECC31 for the cost of 5 6N7G.




WOW!!!

Great deal, Suuup!!! Score City....!!!!

Congrats! 

-)


----------



## UntilThen

Lady in Black..here it is...sing it..London...New York...Paris...Sydney...or wherever you are !!!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Happy to hear about all the sonic excitement and bliss that people are achieving!

I use the Elise as a preamp, and all the RCA jacks are occupied. How do i insert a ground wire? Do I put it into the center pin hole and push in the RCA plug? Wedge onto the outside part of the female side of the RCA plug?

The RCA plugs I use are of good quality, and I don't see how a wire can fit between the center hole ( or the outside part of the plug in the chassis) and the RCA plug when inserted.

My solid state Sony amp/preamp has a little knurled screw for a grounding wire, probably for the phono preamp section. I put in a ground wire there from my voltage regulator with a minor decrease of the hum. However, using the 6BL7 tubes as drivers I can only hear marginal hum at the very loudest unlistenable levels. Does this grounding method suffice?

The headphones that I use - Yamaha MT-220, used to hum badly with the 6N7G tubes, but that hum is almost totally gone now, and not really noticeable. However, I would like to eliminate it completely. Curiously, playing through my speakers, the annoying hum that I used to hear with my headphones, is not there at normal to loud listening levels. Using the built in headphone jack on my amp also eliminates the hum, but it does not sound as good as directly from the Elise.

Listening to the 6BL7 tubes now - they really sound very good as drivers. I know that Renderman used these tubes as drivers, but he was afraid of overloading the Elise. Having an external power supply takes away this worry, and maybe it helps for the hum as well.

Did anybody else try these drivers? They have exceptional clarity and timbre.

A different topic:

As stated, almost all of my listening is through speakers. Am I correct that I cannot expect the same impression of a wide sound sound stage with headphones compared to speakers?


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy I'm out atm so my reply will be brief until I get home.

The ground wire will curl into the receptacle of the RCA plug ...this is the plug at the end of the cable coming from your DAC or source. Obviously it cannot be too thick wire or else your RCA plug cannot go in fully into Elise left input.

Headphone soundstage can NEVER be compared to speakers. There is no comparion even with headphone with the widest soundstage. However a good HP soundstage can give you out of the head experience. I mean they extend a bit beyond your head. 

There is width and depth of soundstage.

Ttyl.


----------



## UntilThen

Wedge onto the outside part of the female side of the RCA plug?   ----> this
  
 I'll show 2 pictures that JV has so kindly send to me to show me how. He's awesome. So helpful.
  
 This is the ground wire...the other end you combine with the negative wire from the AC adapter to go into FDD20 adapter negative plate.
  
 This end of the ground wire cannot be too thick or your RCA plug won't go in fully. If too thick just thin it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Btw there are 2 wires here in the photos because he also has his turntable grounded here I think. JV assured me that Elise is so well grounded ....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> My solid state Sony amp/preamp has a little knurled screw for a grounding wire, probably for the phono preamp section. I put in a ground wire there from my voltage regulator with a minor decrease of the hum. However, using the 6BL7 tubes as drivers I can only hear marginal hum at the very loudest unlistenable levels. Does this grounding method suffice?





> *Will leave it to the technical guys to answer this. I've just learned grounding on Elise hahaha.*
> 
> The headphones that I use - Yamaha MT-220, used to hum badly with the 6N7G tubes, but that hum is almost totally gone now, and not really noticeable. However, I would like to eliminate it completely. Curiously, playing through my speakers, the annoying hum that I used to hear with my headphones, is not there at normal to loud listening levels. Using the built in headphone jack on my amp also eliminates the hum, but it does not sound as good as directly from the Elise.





> *If you insert your headphone jack into a powered Elise with no music playing and you hear hum, then there's hum. There's no other way to determine hum. When you play music the hum disappear because the music drown out the hum.*





> *I find that the cause of hum is usually from tubes and nothing else. Burn in can get rid of it. So far on my Elise NONE of my tubes hum. I only have hum when I was connecting the 12V and that went away completely when I had it grounded properly. Such bliss no hum. Dead quiet. Even my iMac is dead silent. The only noise is from my stand fan. That really keep me and Elise cool. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Never tried the 6BL7. Maybe one day. As it stands I have a lot more tubes coming. It will take me to Christmas to try everything because I'd double check and compare, write notes as I go but most of all I'll be bobbing my head in time to the music.*


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Lady in Black..here it is...sing it..London...New York...Paris...Sydney...or wherever you are !!!




I have this original LP (Salisbury) from long long ago....1970, if I remember correctly. 

The sound quality on the LP is absolutely stunning and a favorite, that I play often 

Saw these guys around 1973...they put on a great show.


----------



## UntilThen

*6N23P Russian Voskhod Rocket logo 1975 / Mullard 6080*
  
 The 1975 version (deemed the best) was reviewed by a gentleman in Head-Fi who spends considerable time reviewing a whole bunch of tubes he was conferred the title of Contributor by Head-Fi.
  
 I want to talk about this tube here together with this song 'Nine million bicycles'.
  
 First of all this 6N23P when paired with 5998 was a bit too much on the bass. A bit overpowering. It's a case of 5998 not fitting every situation. I then switched to Mullard 6080 and in this pairing it became incredibly sweet, punchy, dynamic with excellent detail and clarity. In fact I was astounded how good this pairing sounds. I most wholeheartedly recommend this combination. I just wonder how much better the more expensive Amperex 7308 would be.
  
 I paid $33 for this pair of 6N23P and $56 for my Mullard. You also need to buy 6922 to 6SN7 adapters. $19.80 a pair.
 So it's incredibly good sound for not too much money. My tubes are already burn in on the DV whilst waiting for Elise.
  
 For auditioning these tubes, I play one of my favourite tracks by Katie Melua, 'Nine Million Bicycles'. Those of you in UK and Europe should know her. In 2006, she was UK's best selling female artist and Europe's highest selling European female artist. She's also incredibly rich from her record sales. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nine million bicycles in Beijing
 Six billion people in the world
 Twelve billion light years from the edge    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Again I have no hum in using 6N23P. I'm incredibly happy with Elise so far.


----------



## UntilThen

Just switch back to Frankenstein again..I mean Fur Elise but this time swapping 5998 for Tung Sol 7236. Good as the 6N23P above sounded but 20/31 with 7239 is out of this world. Sigh looks like my AC adapter will be around forever.
  
 7239 is not that unlike 5998. On some songs I thought it sounded more spacious and airy but on bass heavy track like 'It's my secret life' bass again punches like Rocky. I still prefer 5998 for sure but 7239 is a very nice variation. Also the fact it's IBM branded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 20/31 continues to astound me. I'm inviting someone to sample this. Any takers? You've to make your way to Australia or send yourself with more tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ...and the nightmare continues. RCA 6BQ7A/6BZ7 that used to hum badly on my DV336se is now totally silent on Elise. I'm really impressed with Elise...she is hum free 100%.
 oh boy 6BQ7A sounds so GOOD. Talk about it another day. Music time with it now.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyone with Elise that hums from tubes or amps? Mine has been 6 days at 8 hours a day in operation and totally silent. I've been running an assortment of adapters and small tubes even. None of these are recommended by Feliks Audio but all sounding good except the rogue tube 1635. Those that hums badly on DV are totally silent now on Elise. I'm using ordinary no frills cables and RCA interconnects yet everything totally silent. No fancy power cords or USB cable.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Anyone with Elise that hums from tubes or amps? Mine has been 6 days at 8 hours a day in operation and totally silent. I've been running an assortment of adapters and small tubes even. None of these are recommended by Feliks Audio but all sounding good except the rogue tube 1635. Those that hums badly on DV are totally silent now on Elise. I'm using ordinary no frills cables and RCA interconnects yet everything totally silent. No fancy power cords or USB cable.


 
 Mine is currently installed right next to my wireless phone base station and hums. Place a hand between the transformer and the base station and the hum decreases. Move it more than about 10 feet (3m) away and it's totally silent. The hum isn't particularly intrusive, but this won't be my Elise' permanent home anyway, so it doesn't bother me at all. Maybe other hums are externally induced?


----------



## UntilThen

Good sharing there TJ. It's possible other hums are externally induced. However mine has no hum despite the fact that my Elise is situated on a L shaped table with 2 computers and 3 big monitors, one cable modem and a printer about 3 feet away. This is my home office when I work at home and it's full of gadgets. I'm running Ethernet connections to the 2 computers and have WiFi setup for the house. Not to mention my mobile phone which has Bluetooth connectivity. At the foot of the table running parallel to the wall is a row of power points for all these equipment to be plug in. If there's going to be hum it would be me but mine is totally silent. So I suspect my Elise is not prone to external interference. I sure hope it stay this way forever.


----------



## tjw321

I wouldn't say that mine is susceptible to hum - more that I'm severely provoking it. I originally had it next to a modern, digital base-station and there was no hum, but next to an ancient, pre-digital base-station I get a little hum. I'm actually very impressed with it's "hum-resistance".
 My office set-up sounds pretty similar to yours (2 computers, 3 monitors, but no cable-modem (wi-fi access point, though), and the printer is connected wirelessly). The office will be the final destination of my Elise so it'll be interesting how it goes once I finally get it there. I'll be sure to report back once I do.


----------



## UntilThen

*RCA 6BQ7A / Tung Sol 7236*
  
 This is another small tube that surprise me..the 6BQ7A. This was introduced to me by my good friend @HeatFan12 in the DV thread. I hope you're doing well mate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I bought a pack of 5 NOS NIB tubes because it was sold as a lot of 5 and it's cheap. It cost $21.95 for the 5. Adapters are the 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapters at $17.80 a pair.
  
 I was unable to test this on the DV because it hums badly but now on Elise it is totally silent.
  
 This is the 2nd small tube which sounded really good to me. So good in fact I was impressed and think it's even better than the 6N23P because it's more linear and smoother across the FR.
  
 Sadly each time when I get a good feeling about a set of tubes, I'll be totally gobsmacked when I return to FDD20/ECC31. I'll shake my head in disbelief that 2031 is so much more superior in definition, soundstage and total musical enjoyment. I'm still looking at it in disbelief but my ears are loving it.
  
 Good night. I'm out tomorrow so enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> I wouldn't say that mine is susceptible to hum - more that I'm severely provoking it. I originally had it next to a modern, digital base-station and there was no hum, but next to an ancient, pre-digital base-station I get a little hum. I'm actually very impressed with it's "hum-resistance".
> My office set-up sounds pretty similar to yours (2 computers, 3 monitors, but no cable-modem (wi-fi access point, though), and the printer is connected wirelessly). The office will be the final destination of my Elise so it'll be interesting how it goes once I finally get it there. I'll be sure to report back once I do.


 

 TJ, very interesting. Maybe we work in the same company. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You office setup should be fine and not induce hum. However will look forward to your report.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Sadly each time when I get a good feeling about a set of tubes, I'll be totally gobsmacked when I return to FDD20/ECC31. I'll shake my head in disbelief that 2031 is so much more superior in definition, soundstage and total musical enjoyment. I'm still looking at it in disbelief but my ears are loving it.




I have the same thing happen. While a newly tried sets of tubes sound good, and you'd be happy with it, if that was all you had...

I find I am down to a few preferred sets of tubes as "best"

1> 2031 Combo + Mullard 6080 are the superior set with Beyer DT-990's

2> C3gS + 5998's are great in DT-990 and also enjoyed in the Senn 580's.

3> Late 50's Sylvania 6SN7's and 5998 powers are great in both phones, but most enjoyed w/Senn 580's

Am looking forward to hearing (2) FDD20's (well burned in) and 5998 as powers.


Also note: The China adapter maker never produced what I asked for and instead went all the way back to the start and wants to know if I want the 12v wires going through the base of the guide pin! I thought we had the whole 'need' figured out...!!! Ugh 

.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,

Try Google translate:

"I don't want the 12 volt wires coming out from the guide pin - I want them to come from two holes in the base on the side."


“我不希望12伏的電線從引導針出來 - 我希望他們來自兩個孔側面的基地。 ”

“Wǒ bù xīwàng 12 fú de diànxiàn cóng yǐndǎo zhēn chūlái - wǒ xīwàng tāmen láizì liǎng gè kǒng cèmiàn de jīdì. ”

This setting is traditional Chinese. There is also a setting for simplified Chinese (whatever that means.)

Simplified:
“我不希望12伏的电线从引导针出来 - 我希望他们来自两个孔侧面的基地。 ”

“Wǒ bù xīwàng 12 fú de diànxiàn cóng yǐndǎo zhēn chūlái - wǒ xīwàng tāmen láizì liǎng gè kǒng cèmiàn de jīdì. ”

Have used Google Translate in the past with Russian sellers with good results.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Try Google translate:




Yes, thanks Mordy.

I have already used the google translate tool.

Pictures along with text helped the most.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> *6N23P Russian Voskhod Rocket logo 1975 / Mullard 6080*
> 
> The 1975 version (deemed the best) was reviewed by a gentleman in Head-Fi who spends considerable time reviewing a whole bunch of tubes he was conferred the title of Contributor by Head-Fi.
> 
> ...




 I have a couple pairs one PHILIPS SQ 7308/E188cc and the other pair MINIWATT DARIO E188CC and i would say that for me they are the best sounding driver tubes that i use in my WA2  top end and clarity defines those tubes in my amp.


----------



## UntilThen

The Philips and Miniwatt are beautiful. Incredible how expensive these small little tubes are.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > *6N23P Russian Voskhod Rocket logo 1975 / Mullard 6080*
> ...




 Again i was lucky with those i couldnt pay the guy fast when i found out about these tubes


----------



## UntilThen

Mike you're invited to come visit me with those tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Mike you're invited to come visit me with those tubes.




It's a LONG swim 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Remember to bring the WA22. There'll be a shootout. 
Elise is ready for battle.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Mike you're invited to come visit me with those tubes.


 
 And where would that be mate . .You never know what the future holds a couple years ago a headfi buddy (Audiofanboy) in the Littledot tube rolling guide thread living in outskirts of Paris came for a visit with his father one afternoon on his way to the States my wife and i showed them the sites we had a ball what are the odds of that happening so be careful what you wish for lol.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > untilthen said:
> ...




 A pair of tubes i dont have is the Mullard's 6080 how would they compare to other 6080's like Chathams for example if you have any or RCA .Would they be a little better ,subtle differences ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> A pair of tubes i dont have is the Mullard's 6080 how would they compare to other 6080's like Chathams for example if you have any or RCA .Would they be a little better ,subtle differences ?




I have the Mullard 6080's and absolutely love them. They have a wonderful midrange that is very nice compared to other 6080's. Plenty of solid bass and a nice high end as well.

But I think they excel with that midrange, detail space and textures in the mids that make them a worthy addition to any collection of tubes. 

There is an Ebay seller in Cyprus selling beautiful NOS examples from the late 60's early 70's. Have the correct Mitchum codes on the bottles. 
Reasonably priced, for the pair as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

.


​

*"It's complicated"*​

         ​
.


----------



## JazzVinyl

.
​
*Hello, Cousin!*​


       ​
.


----------



## UntilThen

Mikel, I'm in Sydney. Come I'll show you around and have a pint or 2.


----------



## UntilThen

Beautiful macro shots of FDD20 and ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm curious to know how those Chatham 6080 sound. They look good.
I have a few 6080 but only the Mullard CV2984 impress.
I have a preference for coke bottle power tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Let's see here....what is it about this FDD20 that makes it pair so superbly with the ECC31?


​
.


----------



## UntilThen

synergy


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> synergy



But how? Why doesn't it sound weird when you get a different sound on each channel? How canyl they melt together as one. 

Surely this is something I have to experience.


----------



## UntilThen

That's a valid question Suuup. One that I ask myself before I tried it. Remember I said in my review of 2031, I said at the start that I was a skeptic. I didn't want to believe it's possible that combining FDD20 with ECC31 will sound good. In my mind I thought to myself you'll surely get 2 different sounding channel.
  
 So I tried it. I think it's fair if you question something then you should prove it. Remember a long time ago everyone thinks that the world is flat. Then someone says it's round and they probably wanted to kill him.
  
 What I heard is a clearly defined strereo image. There were no channel imbalance, neither did one side sounded different from the other. I've listened to this for 5 days now and my view has not changed.
  
 The likely explanation is one offered by H1. That these tubes are very similar in gain and the pairing has no untoward effects. Instead what I heard are the attributes merged from those 2 tubes.
  
 Just to prove a point. I'm now listening to 6CG7 and 6GU7 as drivers. These 2 are not identical although they share the same adapter.
 This is an excerpts from DIYAUDIO on 6GU7
_The 6GU7 is essentially a 6 volt 12BH7. Set it up like you would a 12BH7 (with the proper heater voltages of course!) and you can get good results. But it is not a good sounding 6CG7/6FQ7 sub._
  
 Yet with this pairing 6CG7/6GU7 I detect no channel imbalance but just a stereo image.
  
 I'll be trying other unlikely pairings and will report further.
  
*6CG7/6GU7 with Svetlana power tubes*


----------



## UntilThen

*I just want to go on record to state this. There are 4 major developments since the start of the Elise thread (the original). *Hypnos1 was solely responsible for all 4.
  
 1. Hypnos1 was instrumental in the creation of Elise. No one can dispute that. Just read the original thread from the beginning.
  
 2. Introduction of C3G into Elise. I count a good many who agreed that these tubes sounded great in Elise. Hypnos1 made the adapters.
  
 3. ECC31 was tried and prove to be amazing in Elise. Again you can see everyone who have tried it agreed.
  
 4. FDD20 was discovered. Everyone marvel that it looks great. Then the controversial pairing came and people are ready to crucify the thread starter.
  
 All I have to say is this. Agree or disagree that is not the issue. Everyone should go on a tube rolling journey for themselves and determine for themselves what is their best setup. At the end of the day it's their money spent.
  
 However, there need to be respect and appreciation for Hypnos1. After all he put in all the hours, liaising with Feliks Audio and the community on the creation of Elise and he never for a moment ask for anything in return. Instead there's a lot of animosity against him.
  
 I may not be on this thread forever but the day I move on is the day I will thank Hypnos1 from the bottom of my heart for his contribution and for his graciousness  to all Elise users.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> However, there need to be respect and appreciation for Hypnos1. After all he put in all the hours, liaising with Feliks Audio and the community on the creation of Elise and he never for a moment ask for anything in return. Instead there's a lot of animosity against him.


 
 Just to be sure... do you perceive my impression regarding the bass shift away from the FDD20 ear as animosity against H1?
  
 Btw, I went back to the  ECC31/ECC31 combination last night. Bass is perfectly centered again but everything sounds a bit 'duller' compared to FDD20/ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

Not at all Nep. I was referring to the other thread who were thrashing him. I respect difference of opinions here on this thread where discussions are done civilly. That is not the issue.
  
 Your contribution is valid. Just as if I was in disagreement I would state it too.


----------



## UntilThen

*Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears / Sylvania 6SN7WGT with Svetlana 6H13C*
  
 Again unlikely combination but sounds ok. I'm starting to realise the benefits of 2 drivers in Elise. Next I'll try different power tubes. You might end up with some interesting results with mix and match.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Two things to note:

1> In other threads, the power tubes have been mixed for years, with practitioners stating you 'get' the best attributes of both tubes. 

2> The NOS FDD20 develops super DEEP bass and retains it's treble magic. But it takes at least 150 hours. plus, of use, before the bass matures. You'll likely hear it starting to deepen at 50, then more by 100, more again by 150 and 'endless cavern' at around 200 hours.


----------



## UntilThen

Before anyone here thinks that the FDD20/ECC31 is now the de facto standard, let me assure you that
  
 ECC31 / 5998
 C3G / 5998
  
 are superb in their own rights. Actually of the 2, I find that C3G/5998 has the better definition and clarity plus solid bass. It is not surprising that they love the C3G on the WA5 on the Woo thread.
  
 So listen to the above 2 pairs with confidence.
  
 I saw this posted by someone and it's a special C3G to 6SN7 adapters made by Woo for WA5 and I thought they look gorgeous.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Before anyone here thinks that the FDD20/ECC31 is now the de facto standard, let me assure you that
> 
> ECC31 / 5998
> C3G / 5998
> ...


 

 I'm currently running C3Gs on a LD MK IV SE, but have been thinking about getting an Elise. I would be a lot more tempted if I could find a way to use my C3Gs on the Elise. I'm not big into tube rolling, but from all I read the Elise is a major step up from the MK IV.
  
 Do you know of any place I can get C3G to 6SN7 adapters? I couldn't find them on the Woo site. Do you have any experience with the MK IV or an opinion as to how much better the Elise is?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Before anyone here thinks that the FDD20/ECC31 is now the de facto standard, let me assure you that
> 
> ECC31 / 5998
> C3G / 5998
> ...


 
 Are Woo selling these? I thought they weren't commercially available.
 Just sent Woo a message, inquiring about these.


----------



## Suuup

So, I just got a response from Jack from Woo. 
  


> Hi Mathias,
> We have just developed an adapter *specifically* to work with a C3g tube. The C3g replaces the 6SN7. This is probably one of the best driver tubes for 300B. It opens up the sound significantly, and I am very thrilled about the results. These are very rare, and we can offer only to some of the product owners. The tubes are the Simens NOS C3g (with metal casing removed). The price is $440 + shipping for a pair of tubes with adapters, PayPal to orders@wooaudio.com. I feel that all product owners deserve to use them on the WA5/WA5LE or 234 Mono. Let me know if you are interested in getting a pair.
> 
> *NOTE: our C3g adapters are to use with our amplifiers ONLY. There are electrical components inside the adapters designed solely for this amp. Do NOT use them in other amps and do NOT buy products on eBay.*
> ...


 
 First off, how can they possible ask 440$ for two adapters and two C3G's? That is just insane. 
  
 Secondly, I don't understand how the adapters will only work with Woo amps. I get that they want people to buy their amps also, and due to this will only sell to Woo owners, but saying they won't work with other amps? That almost have to be a lie. Anyway, take this with a grain of salt, as I don't know a lot about how adapters work.
  
 Thirdly, why may I not buy products on Ebay?
  
 Their response was pretty damn quick though, have to give them that. 
  
 Edit: Okay, Jack just replied to me. He offered to make a C3g adapter for me, if I had the schematics for the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Hold that thought for a second Suuuup. I'll get back to you as soon as I reply to our new friend pctazhp's enquires...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm currently running C3Gs on a LD MK IV SE, but have been thinking about getting an Elise. I would be a lot more tempted if I could find a way to use my C3Gs on the Elise. I'm not big into tube rolling, but from all I read the Elise is a major step up from the MK IV.
> 
> Do you know of any place I can get C3G to 6SN7 adapters? I couldn't find them on the Woo site. Do you have any experience with the MK IV or an opinion as to how much better the Elise is?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 Currently there are no commercially available adapters to use C3G in Elise. Only Hypnos1 makes them but he has said he is busy now and cannot make them. You never know later if he will obliged. He is a most helpful gentleman despite being attacked by a rogue for his adapters which I have a pair and works beautifully. Remember he is not in this for financial gains. It's strictly as a service to Elise users. I firmly believe he has a right to the cost of materials and workmanship in making those adapters besides his time.
  
 There are a LOT of Elise users here who were once LD MK4 owners and they can attest that Elise is WAY better. To put it in an interesting way, their LD MK 4 is now consigned to the attic with Elise arrival. Elise is that GOOD. There is no comparison between the 2. Likewise there is no comparison between my previous Darkvoice 336se and Elise. Another user declare that Elise is better than his Crack with Speedball.
  
 See you on board shortly and welcome....


----------



## UntilThen

3 boxes of tubes just arrived at my doorsteps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Now to reply to my buddy Suuup...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> 3 boxes of tubes just arrived at my doorsteps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Boy am I excited now.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> So, I just got a response from Jack from Woo.
> 
> First off, how can they possible ask 440$ for two adapters and two C3G's? That is just insane.
> 
> ...


 

 Suuup I only found out about the Woo adapters when I visit the Woo Audio unite thread. This guy posted it after getting it from Jack and was told that the adapters will only work properly if inserted left and right as marked. To switch them could damage the amps. You can be assured Jack knows what he's doing and also his products are outstanding, expensive no doubt.
  
 Have a read of that thread and you'll know some users have bought 3rd party adapters and they don't work. Obviously without knowing the workings of a Woo WA5 (which is their near top end tube amp) it would be impossible to create a working adapter for C3G.
  
 Now I'm not here to promote or question the Woo's adapters. All I am pointing out is they look nice and classy !!! I'm not even questioning why it cost so much. That is for individual buyers to decide.
  
 Ok now we have a really interesting situation. Jack is offering to make the C3G adapters for Elise which I've no doubt he will produce one as classy as the picture I posted. Unfortunately Feliks Audio will not release their schematics which is proprietary and I understand why the secrecy. With blatant cloning these days infringing on copyrights, any amp designer and makers will want to safeguard their precious designs.
 However maybe if we approach Lukasz, Feliks Audio themselves may have a solution for us !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup I only found out about the Woo adapters when I visit the Woo Audio unite thread. This guy posted it after getting it from Jack and was told that the adapters will only work properly if inserted left and right as marked. To switch them could damage the amps. You can be assured Jack knows what he's doing and also his products are outstanding, expensive no doubt.
> 
> Have a read of that thread and you'll know some users have bought 3rd party adapters and they don't work. Obviously without knowing the workings of a Woo WA5 (which is their near top end tube amp) it would be impossible to create a working adapter for C3G.
> 
> ...


 
 Already done. I sent Lukasz a message about an hour ago. 
 Edit: Did I beat you to that comment with 1 second? It says so on my screen atleast.


----------



## UntilThen

Good man Suuup. I think that is the right thing to do seeing Feliks Audio are the designer and maker of Elise.
  
 Now to find out what tubes have arrived.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Good man Suuup. I think that is the right thing to do seeing Feliks Audio are the designer and maker of Elise.


 
 As I said to JV in a pm, even if I was able (which I am not) to reverse engineer the Elise or get my hands on the schematics in other ways, I would never hand them over to anyone.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> 3 boxes of tubes just arrived at my doorsteps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow , UT!!!!
  
  
 You are on the roll. How is your sleep? I have Elise on 8 hrs a day since the day I got her. Even though I do have couple of PC fans running all time i worry that I am playing too long at a time. We do have many spare tubes (backup). Do we need spare Elise? haha


----------



## UntilThen

Yes CL. As the sayings goes , 'When the going gets hot, the hot gets hotter' !!! My version at least.
  
 Just a sec. I'm in too much excitement with what I see of the new arrival tubes.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> I have the same thing happen. While a newly tried sets of tubes sound good, and you'd be happy with it, if that was all you had...
> 
> I find I am down to a few preferred sets of tubes as "best"
> 
> ...


 
 Hi JV,
  
 6N7G+ XXX doesn't make it to your list? I am on hold to order FDD20 adapter. Should I go ahead and order the current FDD20 adapter and mod it myself with your help? Or continue to wait for China vendor to make it?


----------



## mordy

Hi pztazhp,

Welcome to the thread. I can only chime in with the comments of others regarding comparing the Little Dot to the Elise. Even the heavily modded LD MKIII (essentially the same as the MKIV) with C3gS and 6080 tubes that I have, is nowhere near the performance of the Elise. Like other Elise owners, my LD has not been used since I got the Elise.

As I said when I got it and listened to it: There is no way back.....

With all the tubes we discovered that can be used in the Elise, the performance envelope has been pushed further and further.


----------



## UntilThen

Sigh with my help you'll get Malice instead of Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 See JV on the adapters. He's the expert and helped me through it all.
  
 Unfortunately you can see my list is quite long already so 6N7G + FDD20 didn't make the top 5. I'd say it's in the top ten. However the Mazda has landed so hang on.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> 6N7G+ XXX doesn't make it to your list? I am on hold to order FDD20 adapter. Should I go ahead and order the current FDD20 adapter and mod it myself with your help? Or continue to wait for China vendor to make it?




Hello CL...

I would place 6N7G + 5998 equal to #3...before the 5998, I thought my one pair were a bit thin on the bottom octave, but 5998's cured that.

Others bought different 6N7G's that were thicker on the bottom, in those cases, less expensive powers will work, fine, like Mullard 6080's, 
or even the default Russian power tubes.

I do like 6N7G's but the 2031 combo leads them, in overall enjoyment.

Adapter News:
China talks, but has not produced the custom FDD20 adapter, as of yet.

My next step is to ask if I can buy one soldered up, but has not the final assembly. 
If so, I can take it apart, undo pins 7/8 internally, and drill the holes where I want them
and add the 12v leads.
It appears to be hot glued together 

But yes, if you buy the default adapter, it's easy to get it going in the Elise (just not a pretty as we'd ultimately like).


I am going to try a pair of FDD20/5998's next 


--JV--


----------



## UntilThen

I was wondering why this box of tubes is so BIG. When I opened it, it's the Mazda 6N7G with those wings and it came with a puppy !!!
  


 A closer look...they're beautiful but the bases are a bit loose so nail polish to the rescue. These are definitely very old new stocks.

  
 RCA 6N7GT...brand new !!! I love the looks.


 National Union 6A6..nice !! but the adapters from China hasn't arrived !!!
 Even has the Date sold and Dates tested but too faded to see. I'm dying to try these as well as the Visseaux 6A6.

  
 Alright I'll be busy enjoying these tubes now.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

mordy said:


> Hi pztazhp,
> 
> Welcome to the thread. I can only chime in with the comments of others regarding comparing the Little Dot to the Elise. Even the heavily modded LD MKIII (essentially the same as the MKIV) with C3gS and 6080 tubes that I have, is nowhere near the performance of the Elise. Like other Elise owners, my LD has not been used since I got the Elise.
> 
> ...


 
 Totally agree with you Mordy, No going back to LD MKIV which I still have. I have so much joy listening to Elise either via HP or as PREAMP. i really wish other music lover could experience it. Much credit to Colin and Feliks's Audio.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> I was wondering why this box of tubes is so BIG. When I opened it, it's the Mazda 6N7G with those wings and it came with a puppy !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am curious about your finding on 6A6s. Looking forward to it. I have problem..... The day I start reading about Elise June , i ended up ordering her on same day or following day. Then i was away from here for a few weeks then I found out new thread via PM from Colin. Then I order FDD20 the same day. Even though, I am spending more than I should, worth every penny....


----------



## UntilThen

Hi CL, I would urge you and everyone else to share too. It's Elise thread. I would love to see others participation. Then I can sit back and enjoy others impressions for a change.
  
 It has come to my attention that a certain ex-banned member is talking thrash about me in another thread claiming I'm taking credit for everything. Such a low ball. He should have been banned permanently rather then being let loose again attacking various people not just on this thread but others. It's clearly obvious. Just have a look on the Woo Audio Unite thread.
  
 This is the 1st time I've seen in a public forum where mud is being thrown from one thread at another. Clearly there's personal grudge there. Now I won't stooped so low. I will let the mod deal with it. I'm here like most of you sharing in the joy of having Elise and tube rolling. Positive energy not negative.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> So, I just got a response from Jack from Woo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I asked them if it was possible to use C3G tubes in either the WA2 ,WA6 or WA 22 and there answer is only the WA5 and WA 234 can use them there's a LEFT channel and a right channel adapter it seems you cant mix them up .As for price ,adapters alone should be alot less pricey and also im not shure but GLENN from Glenn amps who made gibosi amp  can make those for the Woo WA5 and i have a few adapters from him also . I bought a pair of adapters 6SN7 to 6DE7  adapters for my WA6 from Woo and they were $80.00+ shipping a little while back but they are very good quality using CMCsockets like in there amps .


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> I asked them if it was possible to use C3G tubes in either the WA2 ,WA6 or WA 22 and there answer is only the WA5 and WA 234 can use them there's a LEFT channel and a right channel adapter it seems you cant mix them up .As for price ,adapters alone should be alot less pricey and also im not shure but GLENN from Glenn amps who made gibosi amp  can make those for the Woo WA5 and i have a few adapters from him also . I bought a pair of adapters 6SN7 to 6DE7  adapters for my WA6 from Woo and they were $80.00+ shipping a little while back but they are very good quality using CMCsockets like in there amps .


 
 Maybe I should shoot Glenn an email too then. He might be able to make them.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I asked them if it was possible to use C3G tubes in either the WA2 ,WA6 or WA 22 and there answer is only the WA5 and WA 234 can use them there's a LEFT channel and a right channel adapter it seems you cant mix them up .As for price ,adapters alone should be alot less pricey and also im not shure but GLENN from Glenn amps who made gibosi amp  can make those for the Woo WA5 and i have a few adapters from him also . I bought a pair of adapters 6SN7 to 6DE7  adapters for my WA6 from Woo and they were $80.00+ shipping a little while back but they are very good quality using CMCsockets like in there amps .
> ...


 
 If you dont ask you wont know he does good work tough. to bad that its not possible for any of my amps


----------



## UntilThen

Ok justice is done. We can get back to normal life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Initial listening on RCA 6N7GT is creamy, warm and lush with a solid bass but I need more time with this brand new tube. I think there's promise.
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## JazzVinyl

For those interested in the Ebay FDD20->12SN7 adapter and how to make it work in the Elise...

This is the "non-electric" part. I mark my guide pin with a bit of red fingernail polish (helps when inserting the adapter into the Elise).

Start by using a dremel to cut off pins 7 and 8 on the Octal portion of the adapter (these normally bring in the juice to heat the FDD20 heater, but Elise juice is 6.3 volts, we need 12 to 13 volts. So we do away with these two pins):


​



Now I use black fingernail polish, and put a dab on the ends of where pins 7 and 8 were (to ensure no electricity conducts here). Dab it on thick, let dry, and repeat.
​




I use a dab of red fingernail polish and mark the two pins in the FDD20 socket where our external 12v wires will go:
​



If you want, you can call it a day right here and your done. The incoming 12v has to come in over the top of the FDD20 socket, where the wires lay over the two conductors, inserting the tube pinches the wires between the FDD20 pins and the socket pins, keeps everything nice and snug.

or...

I also drill two holes at the top of the two FDD20 socket pins at an approx 45 degree angle down. So that I can bring in the 12v wires and not have to waterfall it over the top:
​


​



Again you can call it a day here. But I tape mine up, and spray paint it flat 'high heat' black to match the Elise look'.


We can go over the electric part in another message...


Part II w/Electrics:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1215#post_12048507

Cheers...

,


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> For those interested in the Ebay FDD20->12SN7 adapter and how to make it work in the Elise...
> 
> This is the "non-electric" part. I mark my guide pin with a bit of red fingernail polish (helps when inserting the adapter into the Elise).
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks JV
  
 Excellent instruction. I will try to do one to make you proud. Thanks buddy


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> Thanks JV
> 
> Excellent instruction. I will try to do one to make you proud. Thanks buddy


 
 You and me both. Hopefully it won't be too long before the adapter arrives. The FDD20 tube is still waiting for me at the post office, I really should go pick it up soon.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Thanks JV
> Excellent instruction. I will try to do one to make you proud. Thanks buddy




Your welcome, CL...

We will go over the electrics in another message (it's easy). 

Also considering a totally custom adapter using these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-8pin-Ceramic-Octal-Pin-Plug-Base-For-KT66-KT88-6550-Tube-Test-Adapter-DIY-/400490426464

But they are white...custom paint job? What kind of paint sticks to ceramic?

.


----------



## UntilThen

I can only smile guys. It's a very good experience and one that you will not regret. However in the interest of discovery, try other tubes too. This is why Elise is so fun. We have so many options regarding tubes. Take your time. Sample tubes as you go. Enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Your welcome, CL...
> 
> We will go over the electrics in another message (it's easy).
> 
> ...


 

 I vote white. Let's paint Elise white to match.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I vote white. Let's paint Elise white to match.




White adapters, and sky blue Elise 

I tried, and failed, two times, to make a custom adapter for the FDD20's....and I see now where I went wrong. Pin3 has to be connected to Pin6 - I thought pin6 wasn't used :mad:

Third time is the charm...

.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> You and me both. Hopefully it won't be too long before the adapter arrives. The FDD20 tube is still waiting for me at the post office, I really should go pick it up soon.


 
 I've yet to order adapter. I should go ahead and order it now. Wish me luck Suuup.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> I can only smile guys. It's a very good experience and one that you will not regret. However in the interest of discovery, try other tubes too. This is why Elise is so fun. We have so many options regarding tubes. Take your time. Sample tubes as you go. Enjoy.


 
 Thanks UT


untilthen said:


> I can only smile guys. It's a very good experience and one that you will not regret. However in the interest of discovery, try other tubes too. This is why Elise is so fun. We have so many options regarding tubes. Take your time. Sample tubes as you go. Enjoy.


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Your welcome, CL...
> 
> We will go over the electrics in another message (it's easy).
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe "Acrylic Spray Paints" ???? What did you use on your last adapter?


----------



## UntilThen

This is a joyful day JV. You can paint it any colour you like.
  
 I'm about to try the Mazda  6N7G. Mike and Mordy, anything I should know before the wings take off?


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> This is a joyful day JV. You can paint it any colour you like.
> 
> I'm about to try the Mazda  6N7G. Mike and Mordy, anything I should know before the wings take off?


 
 Ya the meaning of MO lol


----------



## UntilThen

Marconi Osram? How about Mazda Honda? Or what's a car with 'O' ? lol
  
 these tubes seems like they came out of Raiders of the lost ark !!! Maybe a genie will appear.
  
 Wow something's wrong. My tubes are not the same size !!!
  
 One's taller than the other ???
  
 Wow they really glow.
  
 Bliss no hum !!!
  
 Phew 1st note sounds very good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 See different height but very nice glow and initial sound is good. Dang I wanted same height. These are my best glowing tubes I have so far.
  
 Ok too early to pass judgement but they sound like my ECC31....wow...$99 a pair. Mike and Mordy has it for $10 a pair !!!!!!
 Definitely sound like ECC31. Alright I will settle down for a long listen.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Thanks UT
> Maybe "Acrylic Spray Paints" ???? What did you use on your last adapter?




The default adapter like shown, is plastic, not ceramic. Used BBQ grill high heat flat black.

If I do the ceramic adapter, it will have to be custom wired, set in the ceramic base, then a resin put in to make it all permanent.....the two I failed on, were black plastic bases...were not painted...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Marconi Osram?
> 
> One's taller than the other ???
> 
> ...




They look really nice!!!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello everybody (this is especially for UntilThen)
  
 After reading so many astoundingly good reviews about the best tube setups (namely the FDD20 / ECC31), it makes me wonder *which DAC you've been using the Elise with?*
  
 It also makes me wonder *how the Elise compares with other TOTL amps* - I mean, the way you describe the Elise with the best tube setup, would you say it already meets / surpasses the likes of the EC Zana Deux or EC Studio, Crack+speedball, etc.? 
  
 Next a few more questions about the FDD20 / ECC31 setup:
 * Has the adapter been made yet so we don't need to make this from scratch?
 * Regarding the config.: I take it that the best sounding setup was two FDD20's, and two ECC31's, but with the 12v supply connected only to one of the FDD20's, right?
   - And IIRC, it was said that the 12v power supply to *both *FDD20's made it sound overly analytical, right?
   - One more about the FDD20 - a photo was shown of a solid color tube (chrome or metal), but it seems the photo of it in your Elise was a glass tube, so which type is it?


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Hello everybody (this is especially for UntilThen)
> 
> After reading so many astoundingly good reviews about the best tube setups (namely the FDD20 / ECC31), it makes me wonder *which DAC you've been using the Elise with?*
> 
> ...




FDD20 and ECC31 are both driver tubes. There are 3 different setups. 
2x FDD20, OR 
2x ECC31, OR 
1x FDD20 and 1x ECC31. 

With those setups comes a choice of power tubes. 

To heat an FDD20, you need to supply it with 12.6, but the Elise only supplies 6.3V. This is the reason you need to supply 12.6V to the FDD20 from an external power supply.

The 'metal' version of the FDD20 is actually the same as the one without. It is only paint, so JV used steel wool to scratch it off and reveal the beautiful tube underneath.


----------



## DecentLevi

Also I wanted to point out a little about upstream gear:
  
 I noticed talk of interest how great the Beyer. T1 must sound compared to other of their 'cans. Well I gotta break it to ya - *the T1 is totally obsolete*! *Beyerdynamic just released the DT 1770* in recent months, of which many reputable Head-Fi'ers have said that it blows the T1 out of the water in every regard, as well as the T5p (both of which I've tried). The 1770 is their new flagship with a better build, better sound (especially in the bass definition, soundstage, etc.), and much cheaper. You can see the thread here.
  
 Also I gotta mention that as phenomenal of sound that some of you are getting from the Elise, let's keep in mind that *the DAC plays a humongous role in the sound quality that the Elise is pumping out.* And that USB signal enhancers like Schiit Wyrd and Gustard U12 can further refine that sound that's coming into the DAC itself (I have one and have noticed a sizeable improvement using it into my DAC). The DAC's garnering the most praise these days are the MultiFrost, Gungnir Multibit (both using Schiit's trickle down R2R technology for a truly analogue sound), DAC-19 from Audio-GD which is also R2R, as well as some portable ones like Mojo and Geek Out v2.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Suuup you're a source of knowledge now.
  
 DL, I'm now in sonic heaven with these Mazda 6N7G.
  
 Karl did a comparison review of Elise and Crack with Speedball and found Elise better. See his review in this thread.
  
 I really cannot tell you how it compares with TOTL tube amps. I think it will be presumptuous to think it's better than EC Zana Deux or even Studio !!!
 I doubt seriously. Those are pedigree tube amps. I'd trade my Elise with a Zana Deux anytime .... or will I? After the tubes I've invested LOL.
  
 No I can't answer that question. I can't even say it's better than La Figaro 339 or Woo Audio WA2. I think it's wrong to predict without hearing the opposition.
  
 Lastly, don't be hasty to jump on FDD20. There are so many other options that sound really good without resorting to 12V. I think it's one to tackle when you've bedded down with Elise and experimented with a few tubes.
  
 Hope that helps.
  
 Oops forgot... I use NAD D1050 as DAC and my headphones are HE560 and HD650. A lot of these guys have very good DACs I can assure you that as well as headphones.
  
 I'm a firm believer that the order of importance are Headphone > amp> dac but that's just me. Others may differ.
  
 I don't know enough of Beyer T1 or DT 1770 to commend sorry.
  
 Raven who owns an Elise has a good Geek unit. Very nice. Aqsw has Hegel 2 I think another expensive DAC. Karl uses Schitt Bifrost


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Also I wanted to point out a little about upstream gear:
> 
> I noticed talk of interest how great the Beyer. T1 must sound compared to other of their 'cans. Well I gotta break it to ya - *the T1 is totally obsolete*! *Beyerdynamic just released the DT 1770* in recent months, of which many reputable Head-Fi'ers have said that it blows the T1 out of the water in every regard, as well as the T5p (both of which I've tried). The 1770 is their new flagship with a better build, better sound (especially in the bass definition, soundstage, etc.), and much cheaper. You can see the thread here.
> 
> Also I gotta mention that as phenomenal of sound that some of you are getting from the Elise, let's keep in mind that *the DAC plays a humongous role in the sound quality that the Elise is pumping out.* And that USB signal enhancers like Schiit Wyrd and Gustard U12 can further refine that sound that's coming into the DAC itself (I have one and have noticed a sizeable improvement using it into my DAC). The DAC's garnering the most praise these days are the MultiFrost, Gungnir Multibit (both using Schiit's trickle down R2R technology for a truly analogue sound), DAC-19 from Audio-GD which is also R2R, as well as some portable ones like Mojo and Geek Out v2.




I've been thinking about getting the 1770, but I don't understand how it can be better than the T1's. I saw some people saying the same thing over in the 1770 thread though. I'm not sure what to think.

Be wary not to believe everything you read.

Edit: I really have to go to bed now..


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello UntilThen and Suup, thanks for answering!
  
 Well with the way you described how the FDD20/ECC31 setup blows the others away by such a great margin, I will probably get it someday. I guess we're just waiting to see if the supplier will make an adapter for the base or not.
  
 Also UntilThen, which set or sets of power tubes did you like the best with your setup mentioned above?


----------



## UntilThen

Tung Sol 5998 with the Chatham 6AS7G a close 2nd followed by the Mullard 6080.
  
 Go and sleep Suuup.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> I guess we're just waiting to see if the supplier will make an adapter for the base or not.




Hello DL

See this post for some info on the Ebay FDD20->12SN7 adapter:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1125#post_12045520

.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Hello UntilThen and Suup, thanks for answering!
> 
> Well with the way you described how the FDD20/ECC31 setup blows the others away by such a great margin, I will probably get it someday. I guess we're just waiting to see if the supplier will make an adapter for the base or not.
> 
> Also UntilThen, which set or sets of power tubes did you like the best with your setup mentioned above?




Even if you're not into tube rolling/DIY, the 2031 combo still might suit you. It really doesn't take much DIY. 

Have a look through your old laptop chargers and what not, and see if you can't find something that supplies around 12-13V. I did. 

As long as you don't really care how it looks, it's not a problem.


----------



## UntilThen

Much as I lauded the 2031 I don't want to give the impressions that the other tubes are garbage. It will be so wrong to think that. The likes of ECC31 pair or C3G are really magnificent. Not to mention the Mazda that I'm hearing now. Plus the 6A6 still to be audition. The list is endless. So let me make myself clear. 2031 are not the only tubes..I rather they are not.
  
 In all honesty if you're just into tube amp, even the stock tubes will IMPRESS you.
  
 Also I'd like to sample some choice 6SN7 like Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates. No one has even touch the ECC32 !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Much as I lauded the 2031 I don't want to give the impressions that the other tubes are garbage. It will be so wrong to think that. The likes of ECC31 pair or C3G are really magnificent. Not to mention the Mazda that I'm hearing now. Plus the 6A6 still to be audition. The list is endless. So let me make myself clear. 2031 are not the only tubes..I rather they are not.
> 
> In all honesty if you're just into tube amp, even the stock tubes will IMPRESS you.
> 
> Also I'd like to sample some choice 6SN7 like Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates. No one has even touch the ECC32 !!!


 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VINTAGE-CV181-SMOKED-GLASS-DOUBLE-TRIODE-Valve-Tube-ECC32-SEE-LISTING-/391306892010?hash=item5b1bb552ea:g:LtMAAOSwA4dWMnFz
  
 I wonder why.


----------



## UntilThen

It's just the starting bid. Watch the price rise as it ends. Again it's tested but sellers will never test for noise or microphony.  You have 14 days returns though.
  
 They will be expensive.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's just the starting bid. Watch the price rise as it ends. Again it's tested but sellers will never test for noise or microphony.  You have 14 days returns though.
> 
> They will be expensive.


 
 Yea, that's exactly what I meant. Pretty sure this is the reason no one has tested them in the Elise yet. 
 Edit: And don't you dare tempt me!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, just in case any of you are near San Francisco (or willing to travel), I am organising a local meet-up with around 60 Head-Fi'ers this Saturday Nov. 7th. I'm sure we would absolutely love to hear the Elise if you bring it to demo, and it would probably be a show-stealer. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957/


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Hello guys, just in case any of you are near San Francisco (or willing to travel), I am organising a local meet-up with around 60 Head-Fi'ers this Saturday Nov. 7th. I'm sure we would absolutely love to hear the Elise if you bring it to demo, and it would probably be a show-stealer.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957/


 
 If you pay the plane ticket, I'll gladly bring along my Elise.. 
  
 Btw, nice to see some initiative!


----------



## jerick70

decentlevi said:


> Hello guys, just in case any of you are near San Francisco (or willing to travel), I am organising a local meet-up with around 60 Head-Fi'ers this Saturday Nov. 7th. I'm sure we would absolutely love to hear the Elise if you bring it to demo, and it would probably be a show-stealer.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957/


 

 I really wish I could come but I'm to far away to make it.  Not as far away as Suuup.  I would have really liked to come and meet everyone.
  
 On another note, are any of you form the Salt Lake City area?  We need to put something like this together in SLC.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm not that far. Just buy me a plane ticket and I'll bring Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Only a stone's throw...Sydney.
  
 I'd no doubt like to meet up with fellow enthusiasts.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I'm not that far. Just buy me a plane ticket and I'll bring Elise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Isn't that actually about the same?
 Edit: You have 12,000 km, I have almost 9,000. The shortest path from me to San Francisco is flying north of Iceland and over Greenland, apparently.


----------



## DecentLevi

Right on guys, Head-Fi meets / Can Jam's are THE PLACE to keep up in this hobby: save money by trying new/old headphones, IEMs, amps, DAC, DAP's, etc. (and even homemade equipment), rather than having to buy first: now you have a better idea of what not to buy, and the friends you make / insider info. are priceless. It's quite easy to organise a local meet. Basically just post a thread with the title including your city name in the local meet section, wait for a list to grow and/or PM locals, reserve a meeting spot in a conference room of a library, school or local business (or hourly meeting room charge), and then you can really take this hobby to the next level with other gurus. You can see all the upcoming meetings here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/24/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers
  
 Regarding Sydney area meets: By just searching "Sydney" on HF, I noticed there seems to be an annual Head-Fi meet called Can Con, which had it's 5th meet last summer. Probably you can join the 6th one next year. There's also a realy grand meet upcoming in Singapore.
  
 Regarding the SLC area, I found a few threads here with some interest. Perhaps you can contact some of the members there and set up a new meet or find when the next one is
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=salt+lake+city


----------



## Suuup

The last meet in Denmark was actually this last weekend. Unfortunately I couldn't go. There are only 1 or 2 a year. This time 20 people showed up, which isn't unusual. There just isn't enough people here.


----------



## UntilThen

The last Sydney meet was actually near my home but I was holidaying in Beijing, scouting out tube amps, besides climbing the Great Wall. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Next meet I'll bring Elise and camouflaged her up so listeners can't see her and then wait to see their faces expressions as they listen to her. If there's no smile I'll pack up quietly and leave through the back door. If there's breakdance happening, I'll be collecting gold coins.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> The last Sydney meet was actually near my home but I was holidaying in Beijing, scouting out tube amps, besides climbing the Great Wall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, this is brilliant. I'll have to do this sometime. 
  
 "Yes, this is indeed the Zana Deux"


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Isn't that actually about the same?
> Edit: You have 12,000 km, I have almost 9,000. The shortest path from me to San Francisco is flying north of Iceland and over Greenland, apparently.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> I'm not that far. Just buy me a plane ticket and I'll bring Elise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a better idea.  Why don't you buy us both a plane ticket to Sydney and Denmark and we'll come visit you. I've always wanted to see both places.


----------



## jerick70

decentlevi said:


> Right on guys, Head-Fi meets / Can Jam's are THE PLACE to keep up in this hobby: save money by trying new/old headphones, IEMs, amps, DAC, DAP's, etc. (and even homemade equipment), rather than having to buy first: now you have a better idea of what not to buy, and the friends you make / insider info. are priceless. It's quite easy to organise a local meet. Basically just post a thread with the title including your city name in the local meet section, wait for a list to grow and/or PM locals, reserve a meeting spot in a conference room of a library, school or local business (or hourly meeting room charge), and then you can really take this hobby to the next level with other gurus. You can see all the upcoming meetings here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/24/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers
> 
> ...


 

 I subbed a few of the threads.  Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I have a better idea.  Why don't you buy us both a plane ticket to Sydney and Denmark and we'll come visit you. I've always wanted to see both places.


 
 If you ever get the chance, you should come to Denmark. It's quite different from the US. A lot of people only go to Copenhagen, but it is quite different from the rest of Denmark. If I were to go to Denmark (I'm imagining I'm from the US now), I'd take a few days in Copenhagen, then move on to the west coast of Jutland, and lastly some time in northern Jutland. 

  
 Edit: I have officially given up sleeping tonight ..


----------



## UntilThen

No problem Jerick I'll organise Post Office packaging for you and your LCDx and 3 and make sure you get here safely.
  
 Suuup I'm definitely coming to visit you in Denmark. Then I'll visit Nephilim. Next hop across the channel to see H1. Then US of A.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> No problem Jerick I'll organise Post Office packaging for you and your LCDx and 3 and make sure you get here safely.


 

 LOL.... I'm ready.  I'll probably need one of these.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't afford that kind of postage !!!!


----------



## jerick70

Suuup, Denmark is on my bucket list of places to visit.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Edit: I have officially given up sleeping tonight ..


 
 It's on my bucket list of places to visit.  I'll definitely visit sometime.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> It's on my bucket list of places to visit.  I'll definitely visit sometime.


 
 If (when) you go, shoot me a message. I might be able to give a couple of pointers.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> If (when) you go, shoot me a message. I might be able to give a couple of pointers.


 

 Absolutely.  Thanks for the offer.


----------



## jerick70

Where is everyone getting their ECC31 Mullards from?  I see a pair on Ebay but I'm a bit hesitant to buy.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Where is everyone getting their ECC31 Mullards from?  I see a pair on Ebay but I'm a bit hesitant to buy.


 
 Me. I scored some for cheap from a seller who thought he was selling 6N7G. 
  
 Well, I'm selling to Mordy and Citizenlin anyway. If you're patient, you will stumble across a good deal on Ebay. I bought a pair for $100 USD recently.


----------



## UntilThen

The Mazda 6N7G is an absolute gem. It's a pity I audition RCA 6N7GT back to back with it because the RCA just got eclipsed so much. 
  
 RCA 6N7GT is quite a nice tube to listen to. Strong mid bass and vocals projected forward. Very engaging but maybe too creamy for some. Think chocolate shake. I love the smoke glass though. I shouldn't write it off so soon. Longer burn in will give better results.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Me. I scored some for cheap from a seller who thought he was selling 6N7G.
> 
> Well, I'm selling to Mordy and Citizenlin anyway. If you're patient, you will stumble across a good deal on Ebay. I bought a pair for $100 USD recently.


 
 I think I'm going to have to be patient.  I'll just keep watching and see what I can find.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I think I'm going to have to be patient.  I'll just keep watching and see what I can find.


 
 I'll send you a pm if I find something interesting.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> I'll send you a pm if I find something interesting.


 

 Thanks.  I'll look for your PM.


----------



## UntilThen

I paid $100 each for my ECC31. New Old Stock. The UK seller has depleted his stock since because everyone here has been buying from him.
 I think these French Mazda 6N7G are very good. I'm astounded now. So alike my ECC31. Should look out for it.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Suuup I'm definitely coming to visit you in Denmark. Then I'll visit Nephilim. Next hop across the channel to see H1. Then US of A.


 
  
 We could all meet at Feliks HQ - it's so close to Denmakr & Germany 
  
 The Mazdas are really nice indeed - very similar to ECC31 as you pointed out. Let me know how yours develop and if/when they start making some noise (and when it stops


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Nep I'm still listening to the Mazda until now.   Meeting in Feliks HQ is a very good idea. We can have a factory tour.
  
 I was just about to ask this. When listening through the Mazda, there is zero hum but once in a long while like 30 to 40 minutes I would hear some static electricity sound coming from the tubes during quiet passages. This occurs only for 1 to 2 secs but I can hear it for sure.
  
 When I had the tubes initially the bases were loose so I use nail polish to secure it. I am hoping those static zzzz will disappear for good but because it happen so infrequently and for 1-2 secs it doesn't really bother me.
  
 Now tell me your impressions.
  
 P/S it is sounding very good. I'm so surprised. These are unlike the Philco 6N7G I have. The Philco are more mid and bass centric and so you tend to focus on that instead. With the Mazda it's linear. Bass is solid and deep. Mid range is good, love the vocals and trebles are smooth. Like I say reminds me so much of the ECC31.
  
 I think ECC31 might have a bit more low end but I'd need more time to be sure. When I have to listen so closely then it's clearly a case of the tubes being pretty close in sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Are you kidding me? It's sounding better than ECC31 by the minute. Also the buzzing seems to happen on change of songs when I select play on them. For 2 secs then it's gone.
  
 It's sounding as dynamic and vibrant as the 2031 now !!!
  
 Bass is solid !!! and I'm using Chatham 6AS7G power tubes not 5998 yet !!!
  
 I might not need the AC adapter anymore......tears of joy !!!
  
 LOL subwoofer impact...my chest is pounding to 'Lady in Black'  !!!
  
 On test track now for vocals...'Spanish Harlem' by Rebecca Pidgeon. Pitch perfect. Her vocals are amazingly clear. Bass guitar and accompanying piano are startlingly life like.
  
 Alright I need marathon sessions of this and 2031 for sure and long burn in.
  
 Schitt when has Enigma sounded so good. Frightening.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Mordy I just reread your impressions of the Mazda 6N7G and have to agree with your impressions fully. Let's see I have mine running for 5 hours straight now and it's in full flight. The phoenix has risen.
  
 3D soundstage, smooth clear treble, up front mid range, bass is SOLID and I'm using only Chatham 6AS7G. Extends deep, very deep. Clear separations of instruments. Imaging is very good. You can place where instruments sound are coming from. Above all it's unlike anything I've heard before. I need to jump back to 2031 after this to compare immediately.
  
 Mordy it's interesting you said you may have stumbled upon 2031 even though you haven't heard 2031. It's what I'm thinking now. I don't think they sound the same but it's the same awe inspiring feeling I get when I first listened to 2031.
  
 Now I know why you were awake till 1:30am that day.
  
 It's so good I don't want to change to 2031....


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Alright Mordy I just reread your impressions of the Mazda 6N7G and have to agree with your impressions fully. Let's see I have mine running for 5 hours straight now and it's in full flight. The phoenix has risen.
> 
> 3D soundstage, smooth clear treble, up front mid range, bass is SOLID and I'm using only Chatham 6AS7G. Extends deep, very deep. Clear separations of instruments. Imaging is very good. You can place where instruments sound are coming from. Above all it's unlike anything I've heard before. I need to jump back to 2031 after this to compare immediately.
> 
> ...


 
 Please tell me 2031 is better. Pleaase.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh **** !!! Back to 2031 and it's the same awesome body grabbing, head shaking feeling. 2031 definitely rocks me there. It's SO vibrant hits you through your body. Now I still have to use my AC adapter !!!
  
 Sorry excuse my French there.
  
 2031 is great but Mazda shows great promise. Now further burn in on both should be interesting. Oh btw I'm still using Chatham 6AS7G with both combo. I'm not using 5998 this time...would have more bass and whole FR lift.
  
 Elise with sound such as this is amazing. I have no words.
  
 2031 is still my favourite no doubt about it. How can this unlikely combo sound so good?
  
 Suuup go ahead FDD20/ECC31 is worth it. Pair with your Mullard 6080 and you'll experience the same sensations as me.
  
 Lukasz has to hear this. It's so good.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh **** !!! Back to 2031 and it's the same awesome body grabbing, head shaking feeling. 2031 definitely rocks me there. It's SO vibrant hits you through your body. Now I still have to use my AC adapter !!!
> 
> Sorry excuse my French there.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not NOT trying the 2031 combo, no matter how good the Mazdas are. But if the Mazdas were as good as the 2031 combo, I might have to order a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

2031 is a few notches better. If you get $10 each Mazda like Mike and Mordy did then go for it otherwise no need. There aren't any Mazda now anyway. I need to compare 2 ECC31 with 2 Mazda in depth. I'm not convince Mazda is better than ECC31 yet.


----------



## MIKELAP

decentlevi said:


> Also I wanted to point out a little about upstream gear:
> 
> I noticed talk of interest how great the Beyer. T1 must sound compared to other of their 'cans. Well I gotta break it to ya - *the T1 is totally obsolete*! *Beyerdynamic just released the DT 1770* in recent months, of which many reputable Head-Fi'ers have said that it blows the T1 out of the water in every regard, as well as the T5p (both of which I've tried). The 1770 is their new flagship with a better build, better sound (especially in the bass definition, soundstage, etc.), and much cheaper. You can see the thread here.
> 
> Also I gotta mention that as phenomenal of sound that some of you are getting from the Elise, let's keep in mind that *the DAC plays a humongous role in the sound quality that the Elise is pumping out.* And that USB signal enhancers like Schiit Wyrd and Gustard U12 can further refine that sound that's coming into the DAC itself (I have one and have noticed a sizeable improvement using it into my DAC). The DAC's garnering the most praise these days are the MultiFrost, Gungnir Multibit (both using Schiit's trickle down R2R technology for a truly analogue sound), DAC-19 from Audio-GD which is also R2R, as well as some portable ones like Mojo and Geek Out v2.


 
 There's always going to be better but at one point you gotta be satisfied with what you got imo .Because everybody knows


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I've been thinking about getting the 1770, but I don't understand how it can be better than the T1's. I saw some people saying the same thing over in the 1770 thread though. I'm not sure what to think.
> 
> Be wary not to believe everything you read.
> 
> Edit: I really have to go to bed now..




If a new set of cans make mine "Obselete" then Tubes are ANCIENT / OBSOLETE...who would listen to crappy old ancient "Obsolete" tubes?

The 1770's are closed cans. Appear to be an update to DT-770's (also closed cans) 
They sound better than the TOTL open cans? I would have to spend some time with them, to believe it.

When people spend money on a new toy..."it's the BEST"...for awhile 

I hear camera people say: "your camera is now Obsolete" when the new one comes out. 
But mine didn't stop working...

Cheers!

.


----------



## mordy

OK folks,

What we need is a good $5 tube...

Dug out my old 9pin adapters modified for use with a 15A power supply and and a 15A voltage regulator. Then I cobbled together a tower of adapters and socket savers and put in a pair of 1.5A 6BL7 Sylvania tubes as drivers in the Elise.

(Maybe the Elise can handle 1.5A drivers, but I don't want to take a chance, hence the external PS)

The sound is excellent, very detailed and extremely revealing of every nuance in every recording - more so than any other tube I have listened to. Wall of sound, but smaller sound stage than the Mazda tubes. For some reason these tubes don't hum with my headphones (compared to the 6N7G tubes).

All in all, just as enjoyable as the the Mazda 6N7G tubes, but a little different.

Just to set things straight, the Mazda tubes cost me $26.45 incl shipping, for the pair.


----------



## jerick70

mordy said:


> OK folks,
> 
> What we need is a good $5 tube...
> 
> ...




Hi Mordy, 

I'm intrigued by the Mazdas now. Where did you pick them up?


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> There's always going to be better but at one point you gotta be satisfied with what you got imo .Because everybody knows


 

 This is absolutely true Mike. Just when we think we are done we discover more tubes and gear.


----------



## MIKELAP

Will be getting some RCA 6N7G soon does anybody already  have those tubes  seem to be a few different structure. pictures would be nice if you have those tubes .Thanks .


----------



## UntilThen

6N7G or 6N7GT Mike?


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> 6N7G or 6N7GT Mike?


 
 6N7G


----------



## UntilThen

RCA 6N7G is made in USA. I'm not sure if it's any different from the Philco 6N7G that I have or the GM 6N7G that JV has.
  
 I was quite impressed by the Philco early on when I first got it. However since then, the ECC31, FDD20 and Mazda 6N7G have arrived and eclipsed it. I now feel that the Philco whilst enjoyable to listen to, is quite mid and bass centric. It tends to draw your focus away from the highs. It isn't that the highs aren't there. That's my perception. Again I have no way of knowing for certainty that the RCA and Philco are completely alike.
  
 The Mazda which you have are a different tube altogether. I am still in awe with it and will be spending all of today with it and the 2031.
  
 Did you have more time with your Mazda or anyone has opinions?
  
 I do know that ECC31 or 6N7G sounds louder and has more gain. This has been noted and compensated for with the volume knob. Even then I find them much more enjoyable than the 6SN7s that I've got. Granted I don't have the top notch 6SN7 but I once ask if the Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate would be better sounding than the ECC31 and Gibosi's reply was that it is not in his opinion and to his hearing. I'm not claiming that all 6N7G are equal to the ECC31. Only yesterday I thought the Mazda sounded similar to the ECC31. In fact the Mazda sounded so good I thought it's even better but I need to spend more time with the Mazda and ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

From the onset I was almost certain that 6N7 and 6N7GT are almost equal to their cousin 6N7G but they are not.
  
 6N7 sounded leaner which might suit some people or situations. My son loves this now on the DV336se. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The RCA 6N7GT that I had yesterday sounded tubbier. Has a strong bass presence and forward projected midrange.
  
 The Mazda 6N7G on the other hand sounded linear across the FR spectrum and impressive across the range.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> RCA 6N7G is made in USA. I'm not sure if it's any different from the Philco 6N7G that I have or the GM 6N7G that JV has.
> 
> I was quite impressed by the Philco early on when I first got it. However since then, the ECC31, FDD20 and Mazda 6N7G have arrived and eclipsed it. I now feel that the Philco whilst enjoyable to listen to, is quite mid and bass centric. It tends to draw your focus away from the highs. It isn't that the highs aren't there. That's my perception. Again I have no way of knowing for certainty that the RCA and Philco are completely alike.
> 
> ...


 
 HI UT,
  
 IMO, TS round plate 6sn7GT+5998 combo is very musical, big holographic sound stage, extented Highs, solid lows, smooth mid but comparing to 6N7G+5998 combo its like sitting in 10 rows back vs front row. I don't normally enjoy very forward sounding. i think the reason I enjoy listening to 6sn7g combo is even though its very forward sounding it still retain the holographic sound.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> From the onset I was almost certain that 6N7 and 6N7GT are almost equal to their cousin 6N7G but they are not.
> 
> 6N7 sounded leaner which might suit some people or situations. My son loves this now on the DV336se.
> 
> ...


 
 Now I am curious about Mazda , But sad to say that  I am done spending for next couple of months.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> HI UT,
> 
> IMO, TS round plate 6sn7GT+5998 combo is very musical, big holographic sound stage, extented Highs, solid lows, smooth mid but comparing to 6N7G+5998 combo its like sitting in 10 rows back vs front row. I don't normally enjoy very forward sounding. i think the reason I enjoy listening to 6sn7g combo is *even though its very forward sounding it still retain the holographic sound. *


 

 That's a good feedback CL. I agree with your assessment. For that matter it's ok to disagree too. Life would be too boring if we agree on everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 What other 6SN7 do you have that you find pleasing. I think you have those RCA brown base as well.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> That's a good feedback CL. I agree with your assessment. For that matter it's ok to disagree too. Life would be too boring if we agree on everything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes , RCA brown base are 5962. They are similar to TS round except on top end, doesn't extend like TS, litter warmer than TS which I enjoy very much. I do have good collections of 6SN7s including 1578 metal base. They are all enjoyable if you don't compare / critically analyze them.
  
 Its ELISE not tubes........
  
 No matter which combo you put on her, She sounds sexy as hell.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Yes , RCA brown base are 5962. They are similar to TS round except on top end, doesn't extend like TS, litter warmer than TS which I enjoy very much. I do have good collections of 6SN7s including 1578 metal base. They are all enjoyable if you don't compare / critically analyze them.
> 
> Its ELISE not tubes........
> 
> No matter which combo you put on her, She sounds sexy as hell.


 

 Too right. Elise is spot on. I am amazed even with the stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 CL you do have a nice collection of 6SN7s.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, I did a bit of searching but I can't seem to find out: what is the 2031 setup? (which driver and power tubes)?
  
 Also @UntilThen, is this right, did you say the Mazda 6N7G  / ECC31 are still not as good as the FDD20 / ECC31? And where does the 2031 setup fit into your ranking?


----------



## UntilThen

I had the FDD20/ECC31 as driver tubes with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998 as power tubes. This pairing as of now is my favourite.
  
 A pair of Mazda 6N7G as drivers and Chatham 6AS7G came close yesterday so I'll be watching and listening to these more carefully over an extended period of time. Similarly for the 2031 combo.
  
 2 ECC31 as drivers and 5998 as power tubes are IMO at this point similar to the Mazda pairing in terms of appeal to me.
  
 C3G as drivers with 5998 is also very good.
  
 Of course this is my opinion....YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Please at no point am I trying to sell this like my life depended on it. I understand and respect others preferences. It's a tube rolling journey.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG the 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters have arrived and they are BIG.
  
 See the size !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Sure CL 
  
 The 6A6 is lighting up ...so excited


----------



## UntilThen

renderman said:


> For your info, you bought those from me so I know that.  I also had to adjust those adapters to make them work. Not a problem for me and Hypnos1 was kind enough to help. I do not want or need any last or first words but, I will defend my case.


 

 Fact is I was going to buy from H1 but you approach me because you have just bought your ECC31. So all's fair. I did get the C3G and adapters that originated from Hypnos1.


----------



## Renderman

untilthen said:


> Fact is I was going to buy from H1 but you approach me because you have just bought your ECC31. So all's fair. I did get the C3G and adapters that originated from Hypnos1.


 
 Fact is I had some trouble with those adapters as well. So why couldn't Shaffer have experienced some too? And if he did isn't he allowed to report this on the thread or, anywhere else for that matter?


----------



## UntilThen

There are many others who have bought those adapters from Hypnos1 and I have never heard them say there's any issues. I'll let them chime in.
  
 Remember H1 did this as a special favour to all. He was not profiteering from it. Now he's not even wanting to do it anymore. Who can blame him with all these being said.


----------



## Renderman

untilthen said:


> There are many others who have bought those adapters from Hypnos1 and I have never heard them say there's any issues. I'll let them chime in.


 
 Even if they never had any issues, at least I did any Shaffer too probably. Not trying to bash Hypnos1 or his adapters but this is what happened. I just never felt the need to mention it until now. You can ask Hypnos1 about it, he can attest to this.
  
 Don't worry I stand behind the adapters you received, I personally re-soldered all connections and checked them with both an oscilloscope and multimeter as well as under a microscope. All the connections are very sturdy and I'm sure you will be able to enjoy these for many years.
  
 Again, i'm not disappointed in the adaptors, ever since the fix they have worked very well. I know things like this can happen, certainly with home-made products built to order and I don't blame Hypnos1 for it.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright let's move on. I like to share on 6A6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 First a picture and no hum on those National Union 6A6 with those gigantic adapters from China.
  
 I have to say I'm very impressed with Elise. None of my NOS tubes hum at all.
  
 These sound similar to my Philco 6N7G. Again it's too early. Give me another few hours at least for it to open up.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi all,
  
 I am loving the 6A6 and the white ceramic adapters, the latter is very well made no wonder they are expensive at $38 a pair.
  
 However this is offset by the relatively cheap 6A6 tubes. These National Union 6A6 sounds very good. At $15 a pair for nearly new used but tested strong, they are a steal.
  
 I don't have much info on the 6A6. Hoping someone might provide more technical feedback.
  
 Says this on the seller site:-
  
*2 National Union 6A6 Vacuum Tubes*
*1940’s Vintage Audio Power Twin Triodes*
  
 and a bit more info
  
*The 6A6 is a twin triode class B amplifier tube and its electrical characteristics are the same as the 6N7.  It is a 6-volt version of the 53. Many 1930’s radios used this tube type for audio output. Plate dissipation is rated at 5.5 watts.*


----------



## JazzVinyl

Part II of how to adapt the Ebay FDD20->12SN7 adapter for use in the Elise:

Part I of this is located here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1125#post_12045520



This one will cover getting the grey paint off and wiring up the 12v adapter to 12 volts DC:​

Here is the FDD20 with the Grey Paint that the MFG applied (pretty blue tinged glass underneath):​​

Just use regular steel wool pad (very slightly moistened) and remove the grey paint (comes off easy, 3 minutes, max):​​


Now you have your "pretty" FDD20 ready to go into the adapter we worked on previously:​​



Any old 2 conductor wire will do, to fetch 12 volts of DC electricity to our FDD20 heaters. Here, a piece of wire, w/stripped ends:​​

Twist the bare wire ends tight and push up and into the holes we drilled to access the voltage pins in the adapter (if you didn't drill holes you can go in over the top and "waterfall" down onto the needed pins with the bare wire ends.:
​


This is what we want on the inside of the adapter, the two bared, twisted wires to lay upon the two pins that bring juice to the FDD20 heaters to make the tube "glow". Positive and negative do not matter here, which side they are on, but you don't want the two wires to touch each other (you probably won't be electrocuted if they do):
​JUST KIDDING - YOU WON'T BE ELECTROCUTED ​



At this point, I use an emery board and brighten up the outer edges of the FDD20 base connector pins (this is where it makes contact with the adapter pins):
​


Now, when you insert the FDD20 tube into it's socket, the pins that connect to where our 12v wires are, hold the wires in place. Nothing fancier than this is needed. The FDD20 only fits in the socket one way. There are 4 pins spaced closer together, the middle two are the "12v in" pins (they sit above where octal pins 7 and 8 were before we sawed them off).
​The FDD20 fits TIGHT in it's base, I see why they liked this base for aeroplane radio sets (FDD20's original duty)​



Now were ready to insert the whole rig into the Elise 6SN7 socket...red polish marks the guide pin. All I did for this 2nd FDD20 was tie into the 12v I had coming in to the 1st FDD20. Just twisted the bared ends of the 2nd FDD20 wires around the bare wires I had in the 1st FDD20. This brings the power over to the 2nd FDD20. 
​


NOTE: You might have to add a third wire for an additional ground wire. If you hook up your FDD20 and have a horrible HUM, then the 2nd ground wire will be required.
All I did was add a short wire on the NEG side of the incoming 12v (if you don't have an Ohm meter, PM me to identify the NEG wire) and ran it to the outer RCA connection on the back of the Elise (there are two wires going in to mine, it works SO WELL that I ran the Turntable ground wire here, too:
​​

There ya have it, 2 happy FDD20's with 5998 powers. Bear in mind peoples...the FDD20's require a LONG burn in time (give them 150 hours minimum) to reveal their complete midrange power/clarity, bass authority w/articulation and velvet gloved, golden haired, angel child treble....

​Not the prettiest, but it works.​

--JV--​
.


----------



## Suuup

Oh, something I've forgotten to share. The loud hum from one of my ECC31 adapters basically gone. Sometimes it's there, but it's very seldom. Guess it goes to show that so many things in the world of audio needs some burn time before they reveal their true self. 
  
 Now I've got an extra pair of adapters coming from the kind seller, and I kind of feel bad. Hope he has over 50% profit, but I doubt it.


----------



## UntilThen

JV how does it sound even with the FDD20 being new? Just wanted an initial impressions on 2 FDD20 with 5998 power tubes.
  
 Btw fantastic tutorial. So carefully written. Thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Oh, something I've forgotten to share. The loud hum from one of my ECC31 adapters basically gone. Sometimes it's there, but it's very seldom. Guess it goes to show that so many things in the world of audio needs some burn time before they reveal their true self.
> 
> Now I've got an extra pair of adapters coming from the kind seller, and I kind of feel bad. Hope he has over 50% profit, but I doubt it.




Good news, Suuup!!

Your running a pair of ECC31 drivers?

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Good news, Suuup!!
> 
> Your running a pair of ECC31 drivers?
> 
> .


 
 Have been for something like a week now. 
 Edit: Wait have I not said this? I don't actually remember now.
 Btw, the one who pointed me to Rebecca Pidgeon is a saint. I've probably listened to her album in the entire ~15-20 times now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV how does it sound even with the FDD20 being new? Just wanted an initial impressions on 2 FDD20 with 5998 power tubes.
> 
> Btw fantastic tutorial. So carefully written. Thanks.




It sounds "lacking bass" compared to the 2031 combo. But, I will withhold further comment until I have the 150 hours in on the new FDD20. Easily hear the difference between the new and "established" tube.

Have my notebook over by the amp, to record the hours as she goes 

Thx on the Tut...done for uplifting the spirit of the "Community" 


.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Have been for something like a week now.
> Edit: Wait have I not said this? I don't actually remember now.
> Btw, the one who pointed me to Rebecca Pidgeon is a saint. I've probably listened to her album in the entire ~15-20 times now.




ECC31 pair - nice! Thought you were still waiting on a pair....my bad.

Ms Pidgeon = that was probably "Female Vocals are my fav" UT 

Have you heard Joan Armatrading's S/T album:




.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> ECC31 pair - nice! Thought you were still waiting on a pair....my bad.
> 
> Ms Pidgeon = that was probably "Female Vocals are my fav" UT
> 
> ...


 
 At first I was in a bidding war with someone on Ebay who turned out to be Colin. Colin let me buy the ECC31's off of him though. About a week later, I got the score on the 5 ECC31's, so I'm up to a total of 7. I've sold 1 ECC31 to Mordy and 1 to Citizenlin, however, so now I'm down to 5. 3 of them is at Colins place right now though. 
 Edit: Guess she's going on my to-hear list.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> At first I was in a bidding war with someone on Ebay who turned out to be Colin. Colin let me buy the ECC31's off of him though. About a week later, I got the score on the 5 ECC31's, so I'm up to a total of 7. I've sold 1 ECC31 to Mordy and 1 to Citizenlin, however, so now I'm down to 5. 3 of them is at Colins place right now though.




That is an amazing haul!!!!

Lucky man!

.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Btw, the one who pointed me to Rebecca Pidgeon is a saint. I've probably listened to her album in the entire ~15-20 times now.


 
 Thanks Suuup but I'm not a saint. I look up at my head but there's no halo.
  
 Yes I love Rebecca Pidgeon since the days of car audio competition. Use the 'Spanish Harlem' track for tuning. That's just one of the track.


----------



## MIKELAP

Been sampling a pair of Mazda 6N7G and a pair NR73/ECC31 trying to find the best sounding pair  to me they both sound similar very good bass and mids 3d  soundstage with either you cant go wrong its just a question of i much you pay for them .will have to compare with the 6n7 and the 1635 gotta real short memory lol.  A few pictures ! Why not lol.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Been sampling a pair of Mazda 6N7G and a pair NR73/ECC31 trying to find the best sounding pair  to me they both sound similar very good bass and mids 3d  soundstage with either you cant go wrong its just a question of i much you pay for them .will have to compare with the 6n7 and the 1635 gotta real short memory lol.  A few pictures ! Why not lol.


 
 Well Mike at least our ears are the same. We have the same impressions on Mazda 6N7G and ECC31. Nep also thinks they sound similar.


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> Been sampling a pair of Mazda 6N7G and a pair NR73/ECC31 trying to find the best sounding pair  to me they both sound similar very good bass and mids 3d  soundstage with either you cant go wrong its just a question of i much you pay for them .will have to compare with the 6n7 and the 1635 gotta real short memory lol.  A few pictures ! Why not lol.


 
 Damn, I'm sad I didn't buy a pair of the Mazdas back when you first linked them. Never again! From now on, I'm getting in on everything.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Damn, I'm sad I didn't buy a pair of the Mazdas back when you first linked them. Never again! From now on, I'm getting in on everything.


 

 Oh no don't get in on everything LOL.
  
 Because at that time we don't know how they perform.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh no don't get in on everything LOL.


 
 Why not? I can't miss such a good deal again. Only reason I didn't order was because there wasn't any pictures.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Damn, I'm sad I didn't buy a pair of the Mazdas back when you first linked them. Never again! From now on, I'm getting in on everything.




LOL...I feel left out, too 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Sometimes you need to send in Mike and Mordy to try it out first...as in guinea pigs LOL. So they struck gold in those tubes then I got in but I have to pay $99 for a NOS pair whereas they pay $20.


----------



## UntilThen

I would urge you guys to try out 6A6. Sounding good and cheap. Best looking adapters I've seen.
  
 Mike have you use 1635 before? and on which amp? On Elise I have to turn up the volume to 4 o'clock. !!!
 I don't recommend it on Elise at all.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> I would urge you guys to try out 6A6. Sounding good and cheap. Best looking adapters I've seen.
> 
> Mike have you use 1635 before? and on which amp? On Elise I have to turn up the volume to 4 o'clock. !!!
> I don't recommend it on Elise at all.


 
 Yes i used them in the WA22 with the same 6n7 adapters volume setting i dont remember will put them back in see how they compare to others  .just one an auction for a nice pair of quality adapters for the 5z3 rectifier for the WA6 and WA22  $9.00 i was the only bidder   also got a pair of 6AU6 TO 6AK5 adapters for the Littledot mk3 amp  i have the tubes might as well use them


----------



## UntilThen

Suzier I've dealt with that seller before and she's ok. Good deal $9 for adapters !!!
  
 These cost $38 a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No centre guide pin hole. 6A6 doesn't have them instead you can see 2 pin holes ( ones nearest you) are larger that then others so that's how it goes in.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2x FDD20 like Mullard 6080's much more than 5998's

Like Beyers much more than Senn's

Just a couple hours running, new tube is sounding better.

Going to be a good set, me thinks, with proper burn in.

The Mullard 6080's were the BEST DANG THING I ever bought for my Elise 

Undoubtedly, YMMV...

.


----------



## UntilThen

Interesting !!!  Glad you like the Mullard and I like the Chatham. There's no fighting over power tubes then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ooooooo ....Mazda with 5998 now and wow !!!
  
 I fear there's too much excitement in all these. Elise has only been nine days but felt like a month already....
  
 Mike does your Mazda have any static noise? It's not hum. Mine has static noise once in a while.


----------



## MIKELAP

Just put the 1635 in volume is at 12 same as the Mazda's very wide soundstage  but they sound a little leaner compared to the Mazda's and ECC31 mids seem less up front and full than the others these are comparable to the others 6n7 and the GT if memory serves me .but you get use to there sig fast they sound nice and clean


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> 2x FDD20 like Mullard 6080's much more than 5998's
> 
> Like Beyers much more than Senn's
> 
> ...


 
 That makes me happy! Hopefully my Mullard 6080 should arrive today.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Suzier I've dealt with that seller before and she's ok. Good deal $9 for adapters !!!
> 
> These cost $38 a pair :blink:
> 
> No centre guide pin hole. 6A6 doesn't have them instead you can see 2 pin holes ( ones nearest you) are larger that then others so that's how it goes in.




It was gibosi who communicated with the China adapter makers and got the 6A6->6SN7 adapters made.

Thank you, g...!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> That makes me happy! Hopefully my Mullard 6080 should arrive today.




You will LOVE them the moment you have them in, Suuup!

.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ ah nice work Gibosi. They are expensive though.
  
 Well Mike at least the 1635 are usable on your WA22 but at 12 o'clock? wow
  
 With the Mazda and 5998, my volume is at 9 o'clock. Loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  with HD650
 Hmmm these tubes are sounding so good.


----------



## Suuup

How does everyone store all their tubes? I remember Mike having quite a nice collection and storage for them. I'm getting more tubes than boxes at the moment.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> You will LOVE them the moment you have them in, Suuup!
> 
> .


 
 I don't doubt that. Excited!


----------



## UntilThen

I have 2 drawers full. Need more drawers now


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> At first I was in a bidding war with someone on Ebay who turned out to be Colin. Colin let me buy the ECC31's off of him though. About a week later, I got the score on the 5 ECC31's, so I'm up to a total of 7. I've sold 1 ECC31 to Mordy and 1 to Citizenlin, however, so now I'm down to 5. 3 of them is at Colins place right now though.
> Edit: Guess she's going on my to-hear list.


 

 5 ECC31 !!! Suuup you're stockpiling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mordy and CL will be happy.
  
 I have 6 FDD20..anyone wants to buy besides DL?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> 5 ECC31 !!! Suuup you're stockpiling :bigsmile_face:
> Mordy and CL will be happy.




Yes indeed. Have to get them while I can.


----------



## UntilThen

I think Aqsw is too excited waiting for Cavalli Audio's Liquid Carbon to worry about Elise. Over at the Liquid Carbon thread people are getting really excited.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I think Aqsw is too excited waiting for Cavalli Audio's Liquid Carbon to worry about Elise. Over at the Liquid Carbon thread people are getting really excited.


 
 I'd be too, if I didn't have the Elise. However, now that I have her, I don't think I'm going to switch her out with a new amp for the next 20 years.


----------



## UntilThen

20 years? There won't be any tubes left.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> 20 years? There won't be any tubes left.


 
 That's why I'm stockpiling! 
  
 Anyway. Does anybody know if it's possible to make adapters from 6l6 to 6sn7?
 Edit: Scratch that, I'm stupid.


----------



## UntilThen

6L6? Why? To use in Elise?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> 6L6? Why? To use in Elise?


 
 I have no idea what I'm saying. Just forget that.


----------



## UntilThen

How do you find the ECC31? That should be very good already if not the best drivers for Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> How do you find the ECC31? That should be very good already if not the best drivers for Elise.


 
 What do you mean how do you find it? 
 Edit: Ah, just got it now.
 I really like them. The bass is really good. Goes deep and is very soothing. Mids are sweet, and the highs are smooth. However I'd like them to be a bit more forward in the treble. I really like Rebecca Pidgeons voice, but I feel it needs just a little bit more character with these tubes. Don't get me wrong, it's already really good, it just needs a little nudge more.
  
  


untilthen said:


> Sorry as in what do you think of the sound you're getting out of the ECC31 drivers.


 
 Haha, I got it the second I hit the submit button.


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry as in what do you think of the sound you're getting out of the ECC31 drivers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> What do you mean how do you find it?
> Edit: Ah, just got it now.
> I really like them. The bass is really good. Goes deep and is very soothing. Mids are sweet, and the highs are smooth. However I'd like them to be a bit more forward in the treble. I really like Rebecca Pidgeons voice, but I feel it needs just a little bit more character with these tubes. Don't get me wrong, it's already really good, it just needs a little nudge more.




2031 combo perfectly fixes the slight flaw you just described in 2x ECC31's, Suuup.

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> 2031 combo perfectly fixes the slight flaw you just described in 2x ECC31's, Suuup.
> 
> .


 
 That is what I'm hoping!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> That is what I'm hoping!




Good ear!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> 2031 combo perfectly fixes the slight flaw you just described in 2x ECC31's, Suuup.
> 
> .


 

 Precisely what I'm thinking. FDD20/ECC31 will have a more projected midrange. I really love it with vocals. Yes Rebecca Pidgeon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Did you know that rendition of 'Spanish Harlem' is pitch perfect?
  
 Ah yes the treble...bring on the T1 !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Precisely what I'm thinking. FDD20/ECC31 will have a more projected midrange. I really love it with vocals. Yes Rebecca Pidgeon. :bigsmile_face:




And sweeter, at the highest end.


----------



## Suuup

Can someone explain something to me: 
 Before I got the Elise and just in the beginning, I really liked turning the music way up. I have no doubts that I was damaging my hearing, but the music was so good. 
 The last month or so, I've started to listen to music much quieter. Now that I think about it, it coincides quite well with when I got the ECC31's. I'm getting atleast as much enjoyment, and I don't ever get the feeling, that the music isn't loud enough. Before,  I'd turn it up a notch every 10 min. Now, I listen for many hours without ever touching the volume knob.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> And sweeter, at the highest end.


 
 The Mullard 6080 + the 2031 combo. Can't wait to enter heaven. The 6080's entered Denmark 2 days ago, so hopefully they'll arrive today. The adapter for the FDD20 left Hong Kong a couple of days ago as well.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ because you're hearing every note already .. you don't need to pump up the volume. Besides the bass is solid and felt even at low volume.
 The other thing is with higher volume, you don't feel fatigue with ECC31. It's smooth.
 Let me swap Mazda for ECC31 now.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> ^^ because you're hearing every note already .. you don't need to pump up the volume. Besides the bass is solid and felt even at low volume.
> The other thing is with higher volume, you don't feel fatigue with ECC31. It's smooth.


 
 Actually, I think the fatigue hit the nail spot on the head. There is absolutely no fatigue at all with the ECC31's. They're quite amazing drivers. I usually stop listening to music after a couple of hours, just to clear my head. But ever since the ECC31's, I just cannot stop. I'm constantly drawn to the music.


----------



## UntilThen

At this rate I'm wearing out my headphone earpads from long hours of usage. You're just as bad Suuup !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> At this rate I'm wearing out my headphone earpads from long hours of usage. You're just as bad Suuup !!!


 
 Oh, the pads are the least of it! I need to stock more tubes for the future. There's a reason I'm checking Ebay every 4 hours for ECC31's. There's also a reason I didn't get just one FDD20, but two. We have to stock up while we can, this is not a hobby of the future. Well unless they get better at manufacturing new tubes, but I doubt that'll happen for some time. 
  
 What are you all listening to right now?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm listening to ...recommended by JV and Renee is brilliant


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I'm listening to ...recommended by JV and Renee is brilliant




 Heard one song so far, and I have to say: I'm a fan! 
  
 What do you use for discovering music? I use Tidal. 
 At first I didn't really believe, that lossless was really better than 320 kbps compressed. However, after taking the Tidal test a couple of times, even though I find their choice of songs to be quite bad, I changed to Tidal from Spotify. There is actually a difference. 
 Edit: Wow, it sounds as if I work in marketing for Tidal. I don't, I promise!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I use Tidal 16/44.1khz. Switch from Spotify too. It's really convenient but I have a few HD Tracks at 192 and they are amazing. It's not a myth.
 But Tidal HiFi is good enough for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Ummmm ECC31 and 5998 is realllllly gooooood.
  
 I thought you would prefer electronic or dance hahaha. Didn't know you share my type of music. I love Jazz and vocals especially female vocals.
  
 Renee is young but she has a good voice.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes I use Tidal 16/44.1khz. Switch from Spotify too. It's really convenient but I have a few HD Tracks at 192 and they are amazing. It's not a myth.
> But Tidal HiFi is good enough for me.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What made you think I preferred electronic? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is quite amusing. It's probably the genre I listen to the least.


----------



## UntilThen

Well sometimes I put on electronic just to get a really good blast.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Well sometimes I put on electronic just to get a really good blast.


 
 I've been listening a lot to both Leonard Cohen and Rebecca Pidgeon lately. 
 I probably listen to about 1 electronic song a month on average. It's not never, but it's not a lot either.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow you love Leonard Cohen too !!! You must be the first young man to tell me that.
 This song my favourite. This and 'In My Secret Life' ....ummm so good.
  
 Leonard Cohen is made for tube amp especially Elise. Warm and lush with good timing.
  
 Seriously Suuup I could have been happy with ECC31/5998 and call it a day. THE END


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Wow you love Leonard Cohen too !!! You must be the first young man to tell me that.
> This song my favourite. This and 'In My Secret Life' ....ummm so good.
> 
> Leonard Cohen is made for tube amp especially Elise. Warm and lush with good timing.
> ...




 I guess you could say that I have quite an atypical taste in music. There really isn't much I don't like, I just prefer some music over other.


----------



## Suuup

How are the readings on these tubes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/391306892010?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 I've no idea how to read them.


----------



## UntilThen

Test results seem ok or towards good. Loose base on both but nothing nail polish can't fix.
 I probably won't touch ECC32 yet. What fun is there if you get the top end tube...then it's the end. 
  
 We also don't know how much better it would be over ECC31. They are not exactly the same. ECC32 will slot in without adapters. It's big bucks. I think after the Mullard if you want to spend more money try the 5998 or the holy grail GEC 6AS7G or even Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 You don't need better drivers after ECC31 IMO.
  
 I'm on FDD20/ECC31 with 5998 and it's very good. 
  
 I'm planning my next headphone.
  
 See the 1st row? That's what new test tube is. The 2nd and 3rd rows are the readings from the 2 tubes. Each tube has 2 readings because they're double triodes.
  
NEW AVO data test specification is:
 Ia 6.0mA,   gm 2.3mA/V   with Va 250V,   Vg -4.6V.
  
tube "2",   Ia 6.96mA,   2.55mA/V     //     Ia 6.68mA,  2.54mA/V  
  
tube "3",   Ia 6.02mA,   2.18mA/V     //     Ia 5.79mA,  2.19mA/V
*These are both GOOD test results I think!*


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Test results seem ok or towards good. Loose base on both but nothing nail polish can't fix.


 
 I'll be watching the price then.


----------



## UntilThen

Bid for these. Looks almost as new as my new pair of 5998. If tube don't work return within one week of receipt but you should be covered by eBay money back guarantee.
 I feel 5998 is important in anyone's inventory.
  
 These are same year as mine 1966.
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5998-TUNG-SOL-2-Stck-pcs-Spezial-special-trioden-100-Emission-/161873380590?hash=item25b067c4ee:g:ASQAAOSwwbdWMnch


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> ^^ ah nice work Gibosi. They are expensive though.
> 
> Well Mike at least the 1635 are usable on your WA22 but at 12 o'clock? wow
> 
> ...


 
 With the 1635 i used RCA 6AS7G  and Brimar 5z4g rectifier


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Interesting !!!  Glad you like the Mullard and I like the Chatham. There's no fighting over power tubes then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had noise coming from a microphonic RCA 6as7g but its gone now as for the Mazda's there quiet


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Can someone explain something to me:
> Before I got the Elise and just in the beginning, I really liked turning the music way up. I have no doubts that I was damaging my hearing, but the music was so good.
> The last month or so, I've started to listen to music much quieter. Now that I think about it, it coincides quite well with when I got the ECC31's. I'm getting atleast as much enjoyment, and I don't ever get the feeling, that the music isn't loud enough. Before,  I'd turn it up a notch every 10 min. Now, I listen for many hours without ever touching the volume knob.


 
  
 Hi S.
  
 Glad you mentioned this - it's something I meant to say a long while ago, but didn't manage to get round to it. I too was listening at levels not really wise, but with these tubes _everything_ is there in abundance at levels much kinder to the ears, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... mind you, at times when you feel you need a close-up live gig blast (not that I've had too many of those - for which my ears thank me!!), turning up the wick is a truly mind-blowing experience!...just need to let the ears recover a good while afterwards!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And as the guys have already intimated, the whole reason I kept plugging the FDD20 was because of that extra sparkle and slightly shifted soundstage...all without any adverse effects whatsoever - a truly magical *synergy*...
  
 Hope you also enjoy the 'magic combo'...but we won't bite your head off if you find differently, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but please give it a good while to 'settle in'...


----------



## hypnos1

As I promised a while ago, I would like to just show y'all pictures of the 5 ECC31s that lucky Suuup manged to find...(wish I knew how he did it, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Another example of how things may not be as they appear at first - and can lead to a really good bargain...just like my luck with the GEC/OSRAM A1834 labelled a Haltron 6AS7G  :
                                                                                                                               
  

  
 Note especially the middle 3...labelled 6N7G - _very _interesting, lol!_..._and so, obviously, regarded by Mullard as a straight replacement ECC31 (gibosi conjectures this could possibly be so American sources over here in wartime UK would realise this tube could be used in place of their own '6N7G' - sounds good...unless anyone else has another theory!...).
  
 And just look at the differences in the far left Mullard ECC31....who would ever have thought that to be a 31?!...but it most certainly is, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They all have the 'old style' top cooling 'fins'  :

  
 And they all sound just the same..._*lovely!!!*_
  
 So, Suuup, full marks for spotting these...WELL DONE!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm listening to ...recommended by JV and Renee is brilliant





Try this one, UT....(includes a guitar solo by Mark Knopfler 



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUu77J6KFJQ[/VIDEO]

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> They all have the 'old style' top cooling 'fins'  :
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Superbly done, Suuup!! How did you manage this "coup"? 

And love the fact that the GN7G can be seen to morph into ECC31 in these early examples. Well done all...

.


----------



## MIKELAP

I just put in the 5998's with the 1635 tubes powerful those 5998 ,loud is at 9:30 compared to around 12 o'clock for the RCA 6AS7G


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> I just put in the 5998's with the 1635 tubes powerful those 5998 ,loud is at 9:30 compared to around 12 o'clock for the RCA 6AS7G




Yes! The 5998's have a lot of gain! The MOST gain, is a pair of C3g and 5998's....ka-zow!



.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Cheap storage idea
  
 .87 ea limit of 3 with free shipping.
  
 http://www.target.com/p/sterilite-clear-storage-tote-transparent-with-white-lid-6qt/-/A-13794902?clkid=472b4302N8f6c30e48aca0d3d10985bd2&lnm=81938&afid=Skimbit+Ltd.&ref=tgt_adv_xasd0002&clkid=440436f0N41d43d6bfaf19ffa54e5a77e&lnm=79373&afid=Slickdeals+LLC&ref=tgt_adv_xasd0002


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup will be the expert now at finding rare gems at low prices. 
  
 I did come across one of the middle ones and ask for comments on this forum in an earlier post with a link to the auction site. I saw that it's very similar in shape and peeping into the interior it does resemble a ECC31 in construction. Not getting any reply then I let it go. As the tube isn't tested I didn't push ahead with the low bid. Suuup indeed has intuition to snag that lot of 5. Excellent job !!!
 I would never have thought that the left one is a ECC31 equivalent though.
  
 Mike you're going to be bobbing your head with those 5998. In fact your whole body will be bobbing.
  
 Thanks JV for that link by Mark Knopfler. I'm listening to it now on the FDD20/ECC31 with 5998. Yes my whole body is bobbing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thanks JV for that link by Mark Knopfler. I'm listening to it now on the FDD20/ECC31 with 5998. Yes my whole body is bobbing.




It's actually Joan Armatrading....with a guitar solo by her pal...Mark Knopfler.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Suuup will be the expert now at finding rare gems at low prices.
> 
> I did come across one of the middle ones and ask for comments on this forum in an earlier post with a link to the auction site. I saw that it's very similar in shape and peeping into the interior it does resemble a ECC31 in construction. Not getting any reply then I let it go. As the tube isn't tested I didn't push ahead with the low bid. Suuup indeed has intuition to snag that lot of 5. Excellent job !!!
> *I would never have thought that the left one is a ECC31 equivalent though.*
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...neither did I at first sight of a photo! But then S said he did notice 'ECC' something, which was a great clue! And the identical internals, plus those numbers/letters  (confirmed by gibosi as ECC31) soon confirmed its pedigree...wonder how many more of these USA lookalikes are out there??...ssssshhhh!!!
  
 Glad for the bobbing, mon ami!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> It's actually Joan Armatrading....with a guitar solo by her pal...Mark Knopfler.


 

 Ok it's too early in the morning for me to know the difference LOL
  
 I am just concentrating on my bobbing !!!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys...just had a mini shock. After several days of not being able to get my Elise (with 'magic combo') fix, I pick one of my favourite Clannad tracks and...I could have sworn my old lover had come back to haunt me - *The* *C3gS sound*!!!  What's going on??!!...But then after not too many seconds, the bass and mids remind me something else is going on - this truly is The *modified* C3gS sound...to my ears, at least. So now I can enjoy *two *lovers...I am truly in Heaven, lol!!


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Cheap storage idea
> 
> .87 ea limit of 3 with free shipping.
> 
> http://www.target.com/p/sterilite-clear-storage-tote-transparent-with-white-lid-6qt/-/A-13794902?clkid=472b4302N8f6c30e48aca0d3d10985bd2&lnm=81938&afid=Skimbit+Ltd.&ref=tgt_adv_xasd0002&clkid=440436f0N41d43d6bfaf19ffa54e5a77e&lnm=79373&afid=Slickdeals+LLC&ref=tgt_adv_xasd0002


 

 No we need those steel cases like Mike. It has street credence !!!
 Sorry Mike that was said in jest but I do like your storage a lot.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys...just had a mini shock. After several days of not being able to get my Elise (with 'magic combo') fix, I pick one of my favourite Clannad tracks and...I could have sworn my old lover had come back to haunt me - *The* *C3gS sound*!!!  What's going on??!!...But then after not too many seconds, the bass and mids remind me something else is going on - this truly is The *modified* C3gS sound...to my ears, at least. So now I can enjoy *two *lovers...I am truly in Heaven, lol!!


 

 Well I'm on same cloud 9 waving at you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm using the magic combo right now and it is showing the Mazda a clean pair of heels. !!!


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> citizenlin said:
> 
> 
> > Cheap storage idea
> ...


 
 These tube caddy's are the best , your tubes are safe and organized  This is the first one i got .


----------



## UntilThen

Good lord that is impressive !!!
  
 Even says GE tubes and transistors. How much are these and where do you get it? I want a Mullard one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 How did you keep everything so neat? You're more OCD than I am.
  
 Most of your tubes have original boxes too.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Good lord that is impressive !!!
> 
> Even says GE tubes and transistors. How much are these and where do you get it? I want a Mullard one.
> 
> ...


 
 Got this one of Ebay the others at the  flea market check around its like looking for tubes you gotta be patient to find an original in good condition .


----------



## CITIZENLIN

mikelap said:


> These tube caddy's are the best , your tubes are safe and organized  This is the first one i got .


 
 Indeed they are the best , I love to get my hands on one of those.


----------



## UntilThen

The National Union 6A6 sounds good and I love the adapters but they don't sound as good as the Mazda at this point in time. Maybe with longer burn in things might changed.
  
 However these Visseaux 6A6 that are coming looks interesting..thanks Gibosi for trying and pointing out the 6A6. I think these tubes have great promise besides a very low cost. US$27 for this pair. JV, same seller as your Joybringer.


----------



## UntilThen

Seriously I can never imagine how good these tubes sound. If I didn't hear it for myself I wouldn't have believe it. It's incredible. H1 does have a good ear when it comes to sound.


----------



## MIKELAP

RCA 6N7G in da house in a SWEDISH box ! Pictures of course .  Date  code is       S2 = APRIL 1957 possibly ? there seems to have a few dates on the box OM PROVAS meaning  tested or something like that  .


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> RCA 6N7G in da house in a SWEDISH box ! Pictures of course .  Date  code is       S2 = APRIL 1957 possibly ? there seems to have a few dates on the box OM PROVAS meaning  tested or something like that  .




Nice! 

Gorgeous tubes, Mike!


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> These tube caddy's are the best , your tubes are safe and organized  This is the first one i got .


 
 That is BEAUTIFUL. Boy 'o boy am I getting one of those.


----------



## mordy

Hi Mikelap,

Om-Provas means re-tested in Swedish. The three crowns may indicate use for the Swedish military (?).


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> 
> Om-Provas means re-tested in Swedish. The three crowns may indicate use for the Swedish military (?).


 
 Mordy you're from Sweden? I thought you were an American trying to write Danish to me all this time, but ending up getting it confused with Swedish. Now it makes so much more sense!


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,

I was born in Sweden but live in the US almost half a century. Here is a tongue twister to prove it: Sju hundra sjuttisju sjosjuka sjoman LOL.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> 
> Om-Provas means re-tested in Swedish. The three crowns may indicate use for the Swedish military (?).


 
 Thanks mordy can you help me out with the date or is it accurate = S2 .Thanks.


----------



## aqsw

I'm still here guys. Originaĺy early November delivery, but I haven't heard anything for awhile. Nothing to contribute yet!


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> I'm still here guys. Originaĺy early November delivery, but I haven't heard anything for awhile. Nothing to contribute yet!


 
 Looking forward to your thoughts about the Elise + Audeze combo.


----------



## UntilThen

Aqsw where have you been? I missed you buddy. Have you been so busy with the Liquid Carbon? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't worry if you're told early Nov then the latest is by 2 weeks. That's how it was with mine. You can be sure your Elise is almost complete. Excited for you.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw where have you been? I missed you buddy. Have you been so busy with the Liquid Carbon?
> 
> Don't worry if you're told early Nov then the latest is by 2 weeks. That's how it was with mine. You can be sure your Elise is almost complete. Excited for you.


)

No Carbon yet either. That's shipping next week. My wife went to her see her mom in another province for 17 days. I could have alot of long night listening sessions if I could get my new amps here! Oh well, I'll just have to do with my Oppo for awhile.


----------



## UntilThen

How can you complain about the Oppo HA1 LOL. Enjoy !!!
  
 When Elise and LC comes tell me which of the 3 you like best.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> RCA 6N7G in da house in a SWEDISH box ! Pictures of course .  Date  code is       S2 = APRIL 1957 possibly ? there seems to have a few dates on the box OM PROVAS meaning  tested or something like that  .


 
 Mikey !!! Those RCAs looks gorgeous. Tell me how they sound in your WA22.
 The lettering says 10,000 ...is that referring to the tube expectant life span ?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> I was born in Sweden but live in the US almost half a century. Here is a tongue twister to prove it: *Sju hundra sjuttisju sjosjuka sjoman* LOL.


 
 Is that CTRA (Compulsive Tube Rolling Addiction) in Swedish?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> I was born in Sweden but live in the US almost half a century. Here is a tongue twister to prove it: Sju hundra sjuttisju sjosjuka sjoman LOL.




Seven Hundred Seasick Something-or-others...?


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> How can you complain about the Oppo HA1 LOL. Enjoy !!!
> 
> When Elise and LC comes tell me which of the 3 you like best.




I will do that. I really love my Oppo, but it is being relegated to my work office. 

I will be running the Hegel Hd12 se to the Elise, and balanced to the Carbon. I'm sure it will be a hell of a shoot out. 

Im a little worried about my headphones, as I am a planar fanatic. They just may not pair that well with the Elise.
Overall, I'm putting my money on the Elise though, even if I have to buy some T1s.

I did buy some Mazdas though.


----------



## UntilThen

Aqsw do not even think for a moment that the Elise will not power your planar magnetics well. It cradles my HE560 like a baby. Just check out the HiFiman HE560 specs. It's a very good pairing with Elise. My reviews of the 2 are in this thread somewhere.
  
 35ohms and 90db ....no sweat for Elise. I'm only running at 11 o'clock on the volume dial and it's LOUD. There is enough juice in Elise to power 2 planar magnetics !!!
  
 Needless to say it power my HD650 without blinking. HD650 has never sounded so good. This is what they say that HD650 scales very well with a good tube amp.
  
 Haha you snag the Mazdas too. You will be delighted for sure.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,

It's just a Swedish tongue twister and it means "seven hundred seventy seven seasick sailors". The Swedish for the number seven is sju, but this sound is not found in the English language, and it is almost impossible to find somebody who can pronounce it correctly.


----------



## MusclePharm

Hi friends, it's been a while since the last time I posted here, too much going on see. It's amazing how Elise's community is growing!
 Unfortunately I don't have the time to follow every post, but I see that the most "favourable choice" of tubes are FDD20 and ECC31 (as of now, at least).
  
 With that in mind, I decided to give both of those a try, however, for my luck, my ECC31 isn't working at all. The heaters don't even light up nor does the tube get warm.
 I've contacted the adapter maker and he told me that it's very hard to miss the connections and that he sold 100+ other adapters and that I was first customer to complain.
  
 I've been a little suspicious about this ECC31 as soon as I laid my eyes on it.
 It was mentioned in the description that it was a NOS tube, but, despite these claims, I noticed 3 things on first sight:
 - Rusty pins;
 - Logo is worn out;
 - There are some burn marks on the tube.
  
 I might be mistaken, and the problem might have something to do with the adapter indeed. I will much probably get a new one just to set my mind on peace... But still, I can't seem to believe it's adapter related.
  
 The ECC31's seller keeps insisting that he sold me a NOS tube and that it was tested prior to shipping. But how come that it doesn't work on my Amp when all my other tubes work just fine?
 I also shown the tube to a friend who had already some experience with tubes and who also works in a related area, he noticed these same things... his first reaction was the same as mine: This tube doesn't look NOS. It would be nice to hear some other opinions.
  
  
 I'll attach bellow some pictures that may give you an idea of what I'm talking about...
  
  
 Rusty pins:
  

  

  
  
 "Worn out" logo:
  

  
  
 Here are 3 pics of the burn mark, I'm sorry it's hard to take a good picture of it, or even get a good angle of it...


----------



## UntilThen

The first picture looks like it has a brown base. 
  
 If it's NOS and it probably is, then it has aged very badly. Mine NOS ECC31 pins are in very good condition, so are the letterings.
  
 The main thing is if it doesn't work in your amp then it's useless and you're entitled to a refund or a new tube. If the seller won't budge don't worry, open a return request and take it from there. After a few days if the seller won't settle, eBay will step in and help you with a full refund plus shipping guaranteed. I have 3 such experiences before. Remember buy from eBay with confidence. There is no such thing as no returns. eBay guarantees you a money back if item is defective or not as described.
  
 Remember there is no need to argue with the seller if he won't budge. Get eBay to step in.
  
 See the condition of my ECC31.. if you pay $100 which is the current market price for a single good NOS you must expect this kind of condition.


----------



## JazzVinyl

musclepharm said:


> With that in mind, I decided to give both of those a try, however, for my luck, my ECC31 isn't working at all. The heaters don't even light up nor does the tube get warm.
> I've contacted the adapter maker and he told me that it's very hard to miss the connections and that he sold 100+ other adapters and that I was first customer to complain.




Hello MusclePharm...

Have you tried using an emery board (disposable fingernail file) to get the crud off the pins?

They do look rusty. May not work, but worth a shot.

.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw do not even think for a moment that the Elise will not power your planar magnetics well. It cradles my HE560 like a baby. Just check out the HiFiman HE560 specs. It's a very good pairing with Elise. My reviews of the 2 are in this thread somewhere.
> 
> 35ohms and 90db ....no sweat for Elise. I'm only running at 11 o'clock on the volume dial and it's LOUD. There is enough juice in Elise to power 2 planar magnetics !!!
> 
> ...




I've got some Ethers on order too. They are only about 20 ohms I believe. Doesn't matter too much though, as I've heard they are audio nirvana with the Carbon.


----------



## MusclePharm

untilthen said:


> The first picture looks like it has a brown base.
> 
> If it's NOS and it probably is, then it has aged very badly. Mine NOS ECC31 pins are in very good condition, so are the letterings.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, that was the light.. that picture was just meant to show the rusty pins... lol
  
  
 Yes, either way, being NOS or not, it doesn't work... And that burn mark makes it even more suspicious...
  
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello MusclePharm...
> 
> Have you tried using an emery board (disposable fingernail file) to get the crud off the pins?
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't actually. I'm just didn't want to change anything in the tube in case I have to return it.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes don't touch the tube further or they will say you temper with it and then refuse a return. Certainly don't erase the letterings even more. Letterings alone are worth big bucks.
  
 FYI when my ECC31 didn't work and I contacted the seller, he issued me with a refund plus shipping cost immediately. He even ask me not to bother sending the tube back to him because he will just bin it.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw do not even think for a moment that the Elise will not power your planar magnetics well. It cradles my HE560 like a baby. Just check out the HiFiman HE560 specs. It's a very good pairing with Elise. My reviews of the 2 are in this thread somewhere.
> 
> 35ohms and 90db ....no sweat for Elise. I'm only running at 11 o'clock on the volume dial and it's LOUD. There is enough juice in Elise to power 2 planar magnetics !!!
> 
> ...



my lcd2.2s are 50 ohms. I feel better know!


----------



## JazzVinyl

musclepharm said:


> I didn't actually. I'm just didn't want to change anything in the tube in case I have to return it.




Understand.

I bought a pair of tubes on Ebay there were never delivered.

After three weeks, Ebay did step in and refund me. The seller just kept saying he _would_ eventually send them.

He never did.

.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> my lcd2.2s are 50 ohms. I feel better know!


 

 Don't worry Aqsw. With your LCD2.2 and Elise your head will be bobbing non stop. I'm really keen to hear from you how the Ether perform with Elise.
  
 The Ether looks a bit like HE560


----------



## JazzVinyl

2x FDD20 / Mullard 6080 update:

22 hours in on the one FDD20's burn in.

Things are sounding better.
Easy to tell the 22 hour FDD20 has a more forward upper treble than the 200+ hour FDD20.
Bass came on nicely on newer '20 after about 6 hours. Still, no where as bold as the 200+ hour FDD20 (it will get much much better).

Funny, a lot more differences can be heard between these 2 drivers (one fully burned in, one not) than
you detect in the 2031 combo.

One attribute of this pair, that I like, they are much more forgiving of a badly mastered source.

More as we go, on the 200+ hour, 'burn in' journey 

.


----------



## UntilThen

JV, I can't wait for my other 5 FDD20 to arrive. Oh wait I cancel the orders for the adapters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What happen to the customs made adapters you were liaising with the chinese seller?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, I can't wait for my other 5 FDD20 to arrive. Oh wait I cancel the orders for the adapters :blink:
> 
> What happen to the custom made adapters you were liaising with the chinese seller?




No adapters were produced by the good China folk.
Might make some customs' in these Ceramic bases (there is more room in this base, to work with):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400490426464

But they would be non removable, so would have to have your tube, to make one.

.


----------



## aqsw

Has anybody commented on the 6fn8g. I have a pair of them with adapters. Not sure which I want to try first, them, mazda, ecc31, or photons.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> No adapters were produced by the good China folk.
> Might make some customs' in these Ceramic bases (there is more room in this base, to work with):
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400490426464
> ...



Darn, I was really hoping just to be able to buy one. I have trouble finding the big end of a plug, never mind soldering.
oh well, I am putting my name on the list for somebody that would make and sell me one.


----------



## aqsw

Sitting back right now with a cocktail and my best friend LEONARD COHEN.
The Oppo sounds pretty good with the lcd 2.2s

Pretty good story coming up.
My wife just arrived in Newfoundland. Her sister is doing an ancestry.com register. It seems like she is a third cousin to James "whitey" Bulger. So, if any of you guys try to rip me off, I'm sending the wife over to you to have a little talk.


----------



## UntilThen

Aqsw try it in this order:-
  

Fotons pair
6F8G pair
Mazda pair
ECC31 pair
FDD20/ECC31
  
 with your French Thompson 6080 power tubes
  
 The reason for that order is so you move upwards. Start from the bottom and it's game over.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Sitting back right now with a cocktail and my best friend LEONARD COHEN.
> The Oppo sounds pretty good with the lcd 2.2s
> 
> Pretty good story coming up.
> My wife just arrived in Newfoundland. Her sister is doing an ancestry.com register. It seems like she is a third cousin to James "whitey" Bulger. So, if any of you guys try to rip me off, I'm sending the wife over to you to have a little talk.


 

 First of all ....YAY....anyone who loves Leonard Cohen is my friend.
  
 Secondly who in the world is James 'whitey' Bulger???


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> First of all ....YAY....anyone who loves Leonard Cohen is my friend.
> 
> Secondly who in the world is James 'whitey' Bulger???


o
watch the new Johnny Depp movie. Black Mass. He portrays whitey. He's a favorite for the oscar.


----------



## aqsw

Leonard and I go way back. I remember back when I was a kid, I was almost like a groupie. Followed him from Minnepolis to Duluth, Chicago, Detroit. Probably seen him now about a dozen times. Only once in the last ten years though. Never met him personally though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Darn, I was really hoping just to be able to buy one. I have trouble finding the big end of a plug, never mind soldering.
> oh well, I am putting my name on the list for somebody that would make and sell me one.




These FDD20->12SN7 are avail, and what was used in these tutorials:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-FDD20-TO-12SN7-Tube-converter-adapter-/201418253970

I wanted some customs one made so that you didn't have to follow the steps in the tutorials:

part I:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1125#post_12045520
and part II here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1215#post_12048507


----------



## aqsw

As Mike will tell you, we have crtc regulations in Canada that requires radio stations to bradcast a certain percentage of Canadian talent. That's why if you listen to the proper stations, you grow up with Leonard.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Secondly who in the world is James 'whitey' Bulger???




He is an infamous organized crime 'hit man' in the USA.

.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> He is an infamous organized crime 'hit man' in the USA.
> 
> .



WRONG, not organized at all. Watch the movie.
Not a hitman either.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> WRONG, not organized at all. Watch the movie.




Oops, sorry 

Didn't know there was a movie!


----------



## UntilThen

*Sennheiser HD650, NAD D1050 with Elise (tubes = FDD20/ECC31 with Tung Sol 5998)*
  
 This is a short impression / review of this setup. I've already done one with HE560.
  
 First of all, until I sample the HE560 with Elise, the HD650 has been my firm favourite. It is warm, relaxing and musical. I can listen to it for hours if I don't want to get too analytical and seriously who would want to get analytical all the time. Let your hair down, just put on your favourite music and let go.
  
 NAD D1050 as a DAC suits me to a T. It is a bit coloured but like any British speaker sound, I find it slightly warm and relaxing and a great joy to listen to music with.
  
 Elise with FDD20/ECC31 has been covered by H1, JV and me way too much already. So without further ado, how does it sound putting all these together and spinning Leonard Cohen 'In My Secret Life' and Rebecca Pidgeon 'Spanish Harlem'.
  
 In a word chocolate smooth operator. Now I am not saying it's warm, muddy and blur. I'm saying it's warm just right, relaxing and yet at the same time, exciting and dynamic. It has precision and speed. Treble extends high and smooth. Midrange makes Rebecca the Diva she so rightly deserves to be. Bass is an out of this world experience. It goes deeper than middle earth.
  
 HD650 is the best it will ever be with this setup. It is that good. Sell your planar magnetics, your TOTL headphones and buy 6 of HD650. Ok...maybe not the last sentence but it is that good in this setup.
  
 Enjoy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> WRONG, not organized at all. Watch the movie.
> Not a hitman either.




Sorry again, 
Got info here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitey_Bulger

Does say 'former organized crime boss'...?

.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Oops, sorry
> 
> Didn't know there was a movie!




Black Mass starring Johnny Depp


----------



## UntilThen

Seriously you should get James Bulger to listen to the setup I just described. It will calm him down.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Sorry again,
> Got info here:
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitey_Bulger
> ...



it is wikipedia. Anybody can write it.
Actually they used him as an informnt to try and get the mafia (orgnized crime). He was a small time hood that committed many crimes because the fbi let him, because he was an informant. No mercy though!

Sort of like my wife!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *Sennheiser HD650, NAD D1050 with Elise (tubes = FDD20/ECC31 with Tung Sol 5998)*
> =In a word chocolate smooth operator. Now I am not saying it's warm, muddy and blur. I'm saying it's warm just right, relaxing and yet at the same time, exciting and dynamic. It has precision and speed. Treble extends high and smooth. Midrange makes Rebecca the Diva she so rightly deserves to be. Bass is an out of this world experience. It goes deeper than middle earth.




So your saying that TWO DIFFERENT driver tubes, used together, sounds GOOD???

Whoa 

   

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> So your saying that TWO DIFFERENT driver tubes, used together, sounds GOOD???
> 
> Whoa
> 
> ...


 

 My ears convince me even though my eyes disagrees. I need to wear eye patches.


----------



## aqsw

I've got a soft spot for those 6fn8gs. They are so old they need some loving. They are first in!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> My ears convince me even though my eyes disagrees. I need to wear eye patches.




I like it! 

LOL...that so funny!

Part of the KIT!!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I've got a soft spot for those 6fn8gs. They are so old they need some loving. They are first in!




They look really cool 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Aqsw you'll be the 1st to try 6F8G in Elise. Be careful those tentacles will snare you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

​
.


----------



## aqsw

There's another member here that has a great camera with macro lens. 
I'm hoping my Fuji x_ pro1 with a pretty good macro will compete.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> There's another member here that has a great camera with macro lens.
> I'm hoping my Fuji x_ pro1 with a pretty good macro will compete.




It's not the camera, man...

It's the cameraman...



.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw you'll be the 1st to try 6F8G in Elise. Be careful those tentacles will snare you.




I had an ex wife that told me I was the first too.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I had an ex wife that told me I was the first too.


 

 OMG that is quote of the day. You are brilliant Aqsw.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Aqsw you'll be the 1st to try 6F8G in Elise. Be careful those tentacles will snare you.


 
 That is unless I beat him to it. I ordered a pair yesterday.


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> That is unless I beat him to it. I ordered a pair yesterday.



You definitely have the advantage. Lol
I guess I can always take a pic with tentacles attached, sitting in socket savers,


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> You definitely have the advantage. Lol


 
 It's a race between Hong Kong post an Feliks Audio. Bets are open.


----------



## UntilThen

6F8Gs are over rated LOL. Use the ECC31 and be happy forevermore. It's till death do you part until you meet Miss Beautiful Mazda and be swoon by the French beauty or the blonde German FDD20. Wait is FDD20 German?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> 6F8Gs are over rated LOL. Use the ECC31 and be happy forevermore. It's till death do you part until you meet Miss Beautiful Mazda and be swoon by the French beauty or the blonde German FDD20. Wait is FDD20 German?


 
 But they look cool..


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> But they look cool..



They look VERY cool. That's why they are first. I can get rid of them real quick though, if they don't perform to my standards. Just like my wives. (just kidding)

Problem is, I don't have anything to compare it to.


----------



## mordy

Hi Mikelap,

There is a RCA date code chart: https://www.google.com/search?q=RCA+date+codes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The PDF shows that early 2 digit date codes were numbered 1-6 and then a letter. Each number from 1 to 6 indicates a two month period, and the letter indicates a year.

According to this chart 2 means March-April and S stands for 1961. Don't know if this makes sense, but this is what I got out of the date chart.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Wait is FDD20 German?




FDD20 = Phillips, in Milan Italy


----------



## mordy

Here is a great story about photography:

A couple came to visit another couple. The visiting couple showed pictures from a recent vacation, and the wife of the host kept on commenting on how nice the pictures were, saying: You must have a very good camera!

Afterwards everybody sat down for dinner. After the dinner, the guest, being annoyed by the comments that only gave credit to the equipment and not the talent of the photographer, said: That was such a good meal - you must have very good pots!


----------



## UntilThen

OMG that is the funny story of the month. Pure genius.


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> Here is a great story about photography:
> 
> A couple came to visit another couple. The visiting couple showed pictures from a recent vacation, and the wife of the host kept on commenting on how nice the pictures were, saying: You must have a very good camera!
> 
> Afterwards everybody sat down for dinner. After the dinner, the guest, being annoyed by the comments that only gave credit to the equipment and not the talent of the photographer, said: That was such a good meal - you must have very good pots!



absolutely true!


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> Here is a great story about photography:
> 
> A couple came to visit another couple. The visiting couple showed pictures from a recent vacation, and the wife of the host kept on commenting on how nice the pictures were, saying: You must have a very good camera!
> 
> Afterwards everybody sat down for dinner. After the dinner, the guest, being annoyed by the comments that only gave credit to the equipment and not the talent of the photographer, said: That was such a good meal - you must have very good pots!




My uncle gave me a very low # leica m3 from 1953 with all the great lenses, etc. My aunt told me it was toomuch for him. Maybe 10 rolls of film taken out of it.I still have the whole kit, but it's too much for me also. I'm an old fart,and I'd rather have digital.


----------



## UntilThen

If you're a romantic like me and you often reminisce about your childhood, you'll love Sam Cooke...Wonderful World.
 Such a gifted voice.


----------



## aqsw

Look at his macros. PHENOMINAL. I can only hope to come close.


----------



## aqsw

She's no Leonard Cohen, but Marianne Faithful -easy come easy go is a pretty good listen on tidal


----------



## UntilThen

Are you kidding. I love Marianne Faithful.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Are you kidding. I love Marianne Faithful.



We have sames


----------



## JazzVinyl

Get Hip, Y'all:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbwe0K54FnY[/VIDEO]


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Get Hip, Y'all:
> 
> [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbwe0K54FnY[/VIDEO]



sorry jv,but imtaking leonard and marianne over that seven days a week. Jmo


----------



## Suuup

I just can't get enough of My Parties by Dire Straits. I have probably heard it about 20 times. Per day. For the last week. It is SO GOOD. 
 Edit: I know a lot of people don't like it, but I really do.


----------



## UntilThen

*National Union 6A6 with 5998*
  
 This is the 3rd time I revisited these 6A6 tubes and what I heard in the last 4 hours astounded me. Whilst I thought the sound was a bit bloomy before, it has tightened up now. It is sounding superb. Burn in certainly helps. I was so excited with what I heard, I put it through a repertoire of songs and every one of them delighted me. I look at the amp many times in the course of this 4 hours session. When I do that it's usually because I am hearing something remarkable that makes me look hard at the tubes as if to verify they are the tubes I'm listening to.
  
 So much so I'm now questioning my top preference the 2031 re the top spot. This pair of cheap tubes plus big white adapters the size of big rocky roads chocolates sound amazing !!!
  
 So folks before we all head down the path of 12V AC adapters, I urged you to try these. Cheap and without any DIY you won't be disappointed. !!!
  
 I need someone willing to try these out to collaborate my findings. It doesn't matter if your findings differ. Find a good brand like Sylvania or Ken Rad or even RCA. I saw quite a lot on eBay at very low prices. I think I bought the only Visseaux and it hasn't arrived but these NU at $15 are amazing now.
  
 I'm almost certain these sound special now.


----------



## UntilThen

*Tubes subjective scoring* with HiFiMan HE560, NAD D1050 (DAC duty) and Elise. iMac as source. Files in Apple Lossless.
 Unless indicated, otherwise power tubes used are Tung Sol 5998. These could be revised as the tubes are further burn in. Driver tubes are in pairs unless indicated.
 I'll just describe the key characteristics of each tube.
  
 National Union 6A6 - 9.3/10 ------- Big Soundstage
 Mullard ECC31 ------ 9.5/10 ------- Smooth (with Chatham 6AS7G)
 Mazda 6N7G -------- 9.6/10 ------- Sparkle (with Chatham 6AS7G)
 FDD20/ECC31 ------ 9.8/10
 Lorenz C3G --------- 9.1/10 ------- Punchy, Dynamic, Treble.. (with Chatham 6AS7G)


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> My subjective scoring. Please take it with a grain of salt. These are based on a listen of 3 songs for each pair and scored as I go along. At this point, even though the tubes are not in 50hrs range yet they all sound to my ears good, very good in fact. In all scenarios I use Tung Sol 5998 power tubes.
> 
> I think Elise is well served with such choices. Again with more mileage these positions could change.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...very interesting  :   Mullard 9.2, Mazda 9.6?... Really look forward to development of that one, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And Elise obviously loves the 6A6 - good work!...especially as they're cheaper and easier. As time goes by, hopefully there will also be some in-depth comparisons with a range of 6SN7s (now boys, regard this as your homework, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Despite my already overload level of posting re the 20/31 combo, I fear I must say even more after my last "The '*modified**'* C3gS sound" experience...because this is now getting *CRAZIER!* 
  
 I know - as JV is being astounded by also - that the FDD20 changes quite considerably with _extended_ burn-in, so I decided to return to a few more of my favourite Clannad tracks used for assessment (100s of times!) over the past couple of years, but which I hadn't listened to for a good while... and I thought I was listening to an entirely different amp to before - or else a different recording ..._without exaggeration_. I was absolutely dumbfounded..._yet again!_  Instruments that I knew were there already, and well positioned/separated in 3D space, were taking my brain on the sort of ride I would imagine a fairly strong hallucinogenic might induce...(note the word 'imagine', lol!). And this was long after my glass of nice Cabernet Sauvignon with dinner!!!...This was 3D+++...and the voices were nothing less than ethereally _angelic_...(perhaps there was something extra in that bottle after all!!!).
  
 I first encountered this kind of 'floating amongst the clouds' with the C3g, in fact, but only extensively on certain recordings. This latest experience, however, was far more pronounced...and I was totally unprepared for it. And so for this, UT, I personally have to give this combo 10/10...I am _still_ up there in the clouds, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So guys, give this 'return' to well-known pieces that haven't been listened to for a while a try, and see what happens...but not until at least 150 hrs' burn-in!
  
 ENJOY!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *National Union 6A6 with 5998*So much so I'm now questioning my top preference the 2031 re the top spot. This pair of cheap tubes plus big white adapters the size of big rocky roads chocolates sound amazing !!!
> 
> So folks before we all head down the path of 12V AC adapters, I urged you to try these. Cheap and without any DIY you won't be disappointed. !!!
> 
> I need someone willing to try these out to collaborate my findings. It doesn't matter if your findings differ. Find a good brand like Sylvania or Ken Rad or even RCA. I saw quite a lot on eBay at very low prices. I think I bought the only Visseaux and it hasn't arrived but these NU at $15 are amazing now.




Excellent, UT!

The 6A6 physically look like 6N7G, in an earlier socket.

A shoot out between your NU 6A6 and Mazda 6N7G would be interesting.

Are the 6A6 'forward in presentation', like 6N7G?

How similar/dissimilar is the sound of the two?

How many hours on the Mazda? How many on the NU 6A6?

Elise seems to make the best of everything you provide her to work with, I think the only 'fail' tube we have experienced has been the 1635...?

Cheers! And Good Listening!

.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Aqsw you'll be the 1st to try 6F8G in Elise. Be careful those tentacles will snare you.


 
 They are nice tubes . You can also  get the 6C8G tube  they are usually cheaper  than the 6F8G'S


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Mikelap,
> 
> There is a RCA date code chart: https://www.google.com/search?q=RCA+date+codes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks mordy its the same chart i was looking at but if you look closely the year is left of the letter so i think it is  1957 and like you say march or april


----------



## MIKELAP

By the way got these Tung Sol round plates 6C8G on the way $19.00 + shipping


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I use Tung Sol 5998 power tubes.
> 
> National Union 6A6 - 9.3/10
> Mullard ECC31 - 9.2/10
> ...




Hello UT....further thought:

Where is C3g/5998?
Where are any 6SN7/5998?
and
Where are any of your '9 pin' tubes?

I like what you have, but would like to see the list "maintained" with the additional options.
Maybe you could pick one message, and maintain the chart (add/subtract to ratings, according to burn-in time etc).

Cheers, and Good Listening!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> I first encountered this kind of 'floating amongst the clouds' with the C3g, in fact, but only extensively on certain recordings. This latest experience, however, was far more pronounced...and I was totally unprepared for it. And so for this, UT, I personally have to give this combo 10/10...I am _still_ up there in the clouds, lol!!
> 
> So guys, give this 'return' to well-known pieces that haven't been listened to for a while, and see what happens...but not until at least 150 hrs' burn-in!
> 
> ENJOY!!




Hello hypnos1 - 

I will return to the *magic combo* after getting the 200 hours burn in on the 2x FDD20 pair. I am about 40 hours in, on the 200 hours. The 2x FDD20 is also nicely handled by the Elise, she really tends to take what you provide her, and do her best with them. 

Cheers and Happy Listening!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> sorry jv,but imtaking leonard and marianne over that seven days a week. Jmo




Nothing to be sorry about aqsw, it's your opinion, and your certainly entitled to it. 

I had never heard of Leonard Cohen until mentioned in this thread. Knew of Marianne, from way back when, like her early work, best.

Cheers, and Happy listening!

.


----------



## UntilThen

Morning all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yesterday after being awe by the NU 6A6, I decided to do an immediate listen of 3 songs with the tubes that have impressed me the most lately and also to give a score for each as that's the only way we can see at a glance where they stand. Obviously down the track, how that score is derive, it would be good to break down each listen to varies categories to look out for. For instance:-
  
 Imaging
 Soundstage
 Speed and precision
 Vibrancy
 Layers or 3 dimensionality
 Highs
 Midrange
 Mid Bass
 Sub bass 
  
 Perhaps you guys can help to devious this list but I think we should keep it simple and fun.
  
 6A6 certainly exhibit characteristic of the better 6N7G. Even better than the Philco 6N7G I listen to. What comes to mind are, openness, forward midrange, good controlled strong bass, airiness, 3D layering.
  
 I didn't include C3G on this scoring yet. Or the other tubes. I think it has to be an on going exercise. It's fun. It teaches me to recognise sonic traits in each tube. Over time I'm starting to know them well. For me this isn't tedious but rather interesting. It's like an exploration. A discovery of tubes as you play your favourite tracks.
  
 H1, you're a champ. That's what I like to see. Others scoring as well. Your score of 2031 of 10 is entirely reasonable. In fact I wouldn't object to a score of higher than 10 if it is really special...such as 11/10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So there you go guys. It's a group exercise. This is not one person's scoring only. There will be differences of opinion for sure but that's where it gets interesting. Perhaps state your gear up front so we know what your setup is and how many glasses of wine you had beforehand hahaha just joking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ah yes thanks Suuup I forgot to add. State the power tubes used.
  
 JV, all your suggestions are good. Yes I think the only 'fail' tube for me so far is the 1635 in that I have to turn the volume knob almost max.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Om-Provas means re-tested in Swedish.


 
  
 I think the idea here is "to be retested in 1980".
  


> The three crowns may indicate use for the Swedish military (?).


 
  
 Jodå! See the letter M and the numbers that follow? Cf. http://www.sm5cbw.se/tubes/m.htm


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Morning all...:bigsmile_face:
> 
> Yesterday after being awe by the NU 6A6, I decided to do an immediate listen of 3 songs with the tubes that have impressed me the most lately and also to give a score for each as that's the only way we can see at a glance where they stand. Obviously down the track, how that score is derive, it would be good to break down each listen to varies categories to look out for. For instance:-
> 
> ...




And good evening to you too UT. 

Certainly, it would be cool if every member of our little community had a ranking with a score of every tube they've tried in the Elise. I think it's important to include the power tubes also, so we get the whole configuration and not just the drivers. 

Just came home to find no 6080's yet 

Edit: God damn phone


----------



## MIKELAP

oskari said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Om-Provas means re-tested in Swedish.
> ...


 
 would 10000 mean hours? usually if military would they be better quality ?


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> By the way got these Tung Sol round plates 6C8G on the way $19.00 + shipping


 
 Hi Mike, seeing how cheap these are I will definitely be trying them soon. Good brand too !!!
  
 6F8G Tung Sol NOS are $179 a pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Wow some of them are $249.
  
 Mike so how does the RCA 6N7G sound?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> And good evening to you too UT.
> 
> Certainly, it would be cool if every member of our little community had a ranking with a score of every tube they've tried in the Elise. I think it's important to include the power tubes also, so we get the whole configuration and not just the drivers.
> 
> Just came home to find no 6080's yet




I also think it's a Drivers + Powers deal in this amp.

Could be: Drivers + Powers + Headphones, too 

Also Suuup...my Mullard 6080's were really S~L~O~W in coming, too. Have patience, my friend.

.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a long way from Cyprus.  Try getting the Mullard closer to home.
  
 Certainly, it has always been my believe that both driver and power tubes contribute to the outcome. There's no doubt headphone and even DAC to a degree will influence the synergy. Also the songs you pick. Try a repertoire of songs.
  
 However I find that the last couple of drivers that turn up have been very interesting and they have that appeal and show distinct yet similar sonic traits if that makes sense.
  
 Some power tubes are quite easy to pick up differences not just in gain but what you hear musically. 
  
 I just found out that my 6A6 adapters swirls a bit at the bottom black part where the pins are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 6A6 sounds 'bigger'. It's giving my brains and head a good massage. Hey free head massage !!!


----------



## hpamdr

Got my Elise for two full listening sessions...
 The Elise is a wonderful amp, I did choose Visseaux 6N7GT and GE 6AS7GA for the burning sessions. I changed the 6H13C which was a bit muddy and not precise enough (_probably because out of the box_).  
 When I will have the feeling that the sound is a bit stabilized I will try other combination.. as I do not have my tube collection at my place this is easier 
 I like a lot what I listen for now specially with small ensemble and voices. Organ rendering is also very good but from one session to another, more and more details are added and the tonality balance seems to be "real".
  
 I did listen Randy Newman, Georges Brassens and Jacques Brel  as an appetizer for today upcoming session. All sound great and listening with the T1 is a perfect match !
  
 The Elise is really helping you to find detail into recording and feel the music like if it was a private concert...
  
 I did listen yesterday some choir music and you can distinguish every singer and rebuild mentally the scene. I got the same feeling when I did listen quad ESL-2912, Audio research G150 and a Wadia SACD player. With Elsie you can reach exception sound in reduced space....


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > By the way got these Tung Sol round plates 6C8G on the way $19.00 + shipping
> ...


 
 To be honest its the first time i see Tung Sol at that price altough i didnt really need any i couldnt resist that's how far gone i am lol. Addiction aside ,got those RCA 6N7G in ,of hand they have that big sound i like that wide soundstage. i like em  Thats with 5998 power tubes 5Z4G rectifier ,RCA 6N7G'S  with a WA22 and SENNS HD800 .


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> Got my Elise for two full listening sessions...
> The Elise is a wonderful amp


 
 Excellent Hpa !!! What is your number? Wow another satisfied customer. Btw a very good short initial impression. Those Visseaux 6n7Gt pays off obviously.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> To be honest its the first time i see Tung Sol at that price altough i didnt really need any i couldnt resist that's how far gone i am lol. Addiction aside ,got those RCA 6N7G in ,of hand they have that big sound i like that wide soundstage. i like em  Thats with 5998 power tubes 5Z4G rectifier ,RCA 6N7G'S  with a WA22 and SENNS HD800 .


 

 Thanks Mike. I have a feeling those RCA 6N7G will sound good. Yeah and with 5998 and the rest of your gear....ummmm...dreamy...you must be listening 25 hours a day.


----------



## UntilThen

I've had Elise for 10 full days now. On a modest 6 hours a day of usage easily, that's 60 hours. Far from the optimum but it's sounding very good already.
  
 This is interesting box I've not seen before. Brand new Mullard 6080.
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE/311478749131?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D34572%26meid%3Dc7d4f57d71d34c4dae26b001e26e6e69%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311475172112
  
 Wow so many nice new Mullard CV2984
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE/311154206725?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D34572%26meid%3Da3092e9aa67548f1854c546c40a734a4%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311478749131
  
 Philips brand 
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080WC-JAN-PHILIPS-ECG-NOS-VALVE-TUBE/311446894575?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D34572%26meid%3D9fdf599f8c2a4bd6baecea3bf3a969e8%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D311154206725
  
 Raytheon
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080WA-JAN-RAYTHEON-NOS-VALVE-TUBE/262052506311?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D34572%26meid%3Db0a0d10c401349fdbf8ecfeacade759d%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D311446894575
  
*Sorry for your wallet guys !!!*
  
 All from Langrex.
  
 JV, stock up your favourite.


----------



## Oskari

mikelap said:


> would 10000 mean hours? usually if military would they be better quality ?


 
  
 That's the Swedish military type code: M2463-210 plus some additional digits.
  
 It's a tested RCA 6N7G. That's about it I'm afraid.


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> Got my Elise for two full listening sessions...
> The Elise is a wonderful amp, I did choose Visseaux 6N7GT and GE 6AS7GA for the burning sessions. I changed the 6H13C which was a bit muddy and not precise enough (_probably because out of the box_).
> When I will have the feeling that the sound is a bit stabilized I will try other combination.. as I do not have my tube collection at my place this is easier
> I like a lot what I listen for now specially with small ensemble and voices. Organ rendering is also very good but from one session to another, more and more details are added and the tonality balance seems to be "real".
> ...


 
  
 Wow hp...that's a very encouraging start indeed to your journey with the Elise - boy are you in for a ride, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Glad you are enjoying her already, and look forward to your impressions further down the road...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> Got my Elise for two full listening sessions...
> The Elise is a wonderful amp, I did choose Visseaux 6N7GT and GE 6AS7GA for the burning sessions. I changed the 6H13C which was a bit muddy and not precise enough (_probably because out of the box_).
> When I will have the feeling that the sound is a bit stabilized I will try other combination.. as I do not have my tube collection at my place this is easier
> I like a lot what I listen for now specially with small ensemble and voices. Organ rendering is also very good but from one session to another, more and more details are added and the tonality balance seems to be "real".
> ...




Big Congrats, hp!

She will treat your ears with love and respect. Do you have #0023 by chance? Should be a plate on the bottom with the S/N stamped on it.

Sit back and relax with the Elise...she just gets better and better and better!

Congrats again, Sir!! 

Were the LUCKY ones!!



.


----------



## UntilThen

On the 1st day Elise is just a tube amp.
  
 On the 25th day Elise is a Mermaid.
  
 On the 50th day Elise is a Unicorn.
  
 On the 100th day Elise is a live orchestra.
  
 Thereafter she is whatever you want her to be.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thereafter she is whatever you want her to be.




She is actually a "Soul Transportation Device"...


----------



## UntilThen

I've just written to Lukasz to thank him and say this thread is exploding with accolades for Elise. I also told him he should come by and read everyone's impressions of Elise, which is simply amazing. There's not one person who wants to return or sell off their Elise yet.
  
 So he will pop by and have a read and his jaws will drop when he sees what tubes we're using.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,

M2463-210 = 6N7GT
M2463-210E = ECC31, NR73,6N7G 

Impressive that you came up with this list!


----------



## UntilThen

Wow whoever compile that list deserves a purple heart. Thanks Oskari !


----------



## hpamdr

> She will treat your ears with love and respect. Do you have #0023 by chance? Should be a plate on the bottom with the S/N stamped on it.
> 
> Were the LUCKY ones!!
> 
> ...


 
 Nope Sir !  Got 24 and 25 seems already on the way...


----------



## UntilThen

Wonder who's 23.    25 might be Aqsw...he'll be so happy.


----------



## Oskari

Well done, Mordy! (It helps if you've seen those codes before.)
  
 UT, I think that pink would be more appropriate...


----------



## UntilThen

Oops hahaha shows how much I know about those decorations. My apologies !
 Saw 'Full Metal Jacket' yesterday on TV and ummm...I like it.


----------



## Suuup

Does the C3g's have a metal jacket or is it just metallic paint like the FDD20's? Can I remove it?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> I also think it's a Drivers + Powers deal in this amp.
> 
> Could be: Drivers + Powers + Headphones, too
> 
> ...


 
 It arrived at the post office 8 AM this morning, and right now it's 11 PM. There has apparently been a mistake, so it has now been delayed for one day. Not sure what happened though. 
  
 It is 3 km away, and yet I have no way to get it before tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

It has a metal jacket or shield which you can remove but carefully as the glass tube is brittle. H1 or some of the LD people can show you how to do it safely.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It has a metal jacket or shield which you can remove but carefully as the glass tube is brittle. H1 or some of the LD people can show you how to do it safely.




Suuup...it has a metal jacket as UT says. I have one that I need to take the jacket off of, will try and make some photos and show how it's done. The glass is delicate, you need to work very carefully/slowly. You will need a small straight blade screwdriver, a good pair of needle nose pliers, and glue.

When you take the jacket off, a piece of the Locktal base falls off, you need to glue that back on. There is one pin that is keyed, such that you don't put it on incorrectly. Will try and show that, as well.

.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll update page 93 post with my scoring as I go. Meanwhile there's something about 6A6..it's a big sound. Quite unlike a normal headphone. The orchestra seems to sit higher at the top of my head. Almost holographic. I like it. Going to burn it in like there's no tomorrow. I wonder if this is just pertaining to NU. The internal construction is different from the Visseaux 6A6 and that is still on a slow boat from Italy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'll update page 93 post with my scoring as I go. Meanwhile there's something about 6A6..it's a big sound. Quite unlike a normal headphone. The orchestra seems to sit higher at the top of my head. Almost holographic. I like it. Going to burn it in like there's no tomorrow. I wonder if this is just pertaining to NU. The internal construction is different from the Visseaux 6A6 and that is still on a slow boat from Italy.




That interesting sound stage is what I was trying to describe with the 6N7G Visseaux's that I bought, as well. Big Sound...closer to the musicians, feel like your "among" the musicians....sharing the stage with them...

All a bit magical, and exciting!

.


----------



## UntilThen

NU 6A6 - yes a big soundstage, closer to the music and a relaxing sound but strong on bass when calls for. Now this contrast with the C3G that I'm listening to now. I can equate the C3G experience to that of my buying the DT880 over the HD650 and HD600. It impress at first listen. Then my preference steps in. I prefer a more relax sound. It's the reason I chose Dynaudio splits over Focal splits. Over at the car forum, there are 2 main camps. Dynaudio or Focal. Wander into the wrong camp and you're dead meat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 C3G is crystal clear, punchy and dynamic with 5998. Excites you on first listen but after a while gets a bit fatiguing at the top end. So much clarity and details though. It's like an enhanced photo.
  
 So which camp are you?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> C3G is crystal clear, punchy and dynamic with 5998. Excites you on first listen but after a while gets a bit fatiguing at the top end. So much clarity and details though. It's like an enhanced photo.
> 
> So which camp are you?




You have just entered the land where a different power tube will make/break your driver...

Try Mullard 6080 w/C3g...


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest its the first time i see Tung Sol at that price altough i didnt really need any i couldnt resist that's how far gone i am lol. Addiction aside ,got those RCA 6N7G in ,of hand they have that big sound i like that wide soundstage. i like em  Thats with 5998 power tubes 5Z4G rectifier ,RCA 6N7G'S  with a WA22 and SENNS HD800 .
> ...


 
 No!!!!! ,dont you know to much of a good thing is bad for you this could be the end result lol


----------



## UntilThen

Haha Mike. There is never too much of a good thing.
  
 Yes JV, a change to Chatham 6AS7G and C3G sounded better but the top end is still evidently clear. Mind you I do dig this sort of sound sometimes but not generally on the whole. It's a preference. There is no right or wrong. Many will love this sound signature.


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...very interesting  :   Mullard 9.2, Mazda 9.6?... Really look forward to development of that one, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hello H1, can you tell me which driver and power tubes you were using for this setup mentioned above?
  
 And is it you that is the founder of Feliks Audio? (or do I just have my wires crossed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)?


----------



## UntilThen

DL you get him at a time when he's sleeping. It's night time in UK !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 He's using FDD20/ECC31 with the holy grail of power tubes, the GEC 6AS7G.
  
 No doubt he'll be very flattered you think he owns Feliks Audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I said before he was instrumental in Elise creation. He scouted out Feliks Audio and broached to them about doing a tube amp that will use 6AS7 and 6SN7 family of tubes. That started a whole chain of discussions between Feliks Audio, H1 and the community here and finally there you have it - behold Elise.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> I'll update page 93 post with my scoring as I go. Meanwhile there's something about 6A6..it's a big sound. Quite unlike a normal headphone. The orchestra seems to sit higher at the top of my head. Almost holographic. I like it. Going to burn it in like there's no tomorrow. I wonder if this is just pertaining to NU. The internal construction is different from the Visseaux 6A6 and that is still on a slow boat from Italy.


 
  
 It appears that your NU 6A6 have flat latter-box plates whereas mine have round plates. I wonder if they sound the same?


----------



## DecentLevi

Wonderful idea about the tube rankings system, guys. I think we're really on the right track - @UntilThen, @mordy, @JazzVinyl etc.
  
 This is actually what I also do for all the tubes with my other amp. For me, I generally rank them based upon clarity, THD, bass, energy, dynamics and soundstage. These are my personal 6 main factors in ranking the sonic performance of a tube. I elaborate:
  

*clarity*: This is a combination of how well the tube presents instrument separation and both the quantity and quality of the high frequencies, which IMO often tie hand-in-hand
*THD*: Total Harmonic Distortion. This is the general 'tubey' characteristics that every tube introduces into the sound, and I see this to effect mostly the _greater _mid-range; it's the way the current flows through the tubes' circuitry that determines how much of a euphonic sound it makes. Personally I prefer a medium amount of THD. Too little sounds dry / stale / clinical, and too much sounds overtly lush / colored to the point of occasionally making one feel sick. And how can you determine the THD, you may ask? Well I've developed an un-scientific method, by picking out several specific parts of specific tracks which I've listened to before on other tubes which strike me as having a very high THD, and I listen to that portion of that song on a loop and see whether or not it makes me cringe; and some A/B-ing on that same looped recording with other tubes that have more/less (*perceived) *THD. PM me if you would like a copy of my THD test tracks.
*energy*: this is similar to THD yet also a bit hard to put into words. I feel that all tubes have a distinct sounding amount of 'energy', and I will attempt to describe it: imagine how much overall energy of the sound of a massive orchestra makes compared to one guy singing on a street corner. That's what I mean by energy - how energetic or much pure lifelike vividness does it seem to have
*bass*: quantity & qualities such as / sub bass extension / bass speed. How much bass does it have, and how is the quality; does it have good definition and organic qualities; and does it sound punchy or slow and open
*dynamics*: how punchy a sound is; how hard the likes of a snare 'slams', especially with a focus on the speed of short sounds from the time they begin and end (ADSR, part of the PRaT), in which the most lifelike dynamics are generally more desirable. Not too fast, and not too slow / muddy.
*soundstage*: (everybody already knows this one)... _but it would be interesting to know how soundstage correlates with imaging_
*overall *ranking: how you rank it on a scale of 1-10 (or 1 + for something otherworldly)
  
 Here is an example of my rankings for one of my (other amps's) tubes:
  
_GE 6SN7 6TA Copperposts
*Clarity*: 9/10. *THD*:   6.7/10. *Bass*: proper FR & very pleasing, slightly rolled off sub-bass but there. *Energy*: 8/10. *Dynamics*: 8.5 *Overall*: 8.6/10
  poss. good for mastering on HD 650. Realistic, yet maybe sl. too engaging w. med-hi THD. Realistic treble on 650, bass OK but sl. more to be desired. Good s.stage. Punchy but bass maybe too fast. *Stage *average_
  
 So I think this would be extremely helpful if the most active users would keep a working 'hit list' of their tube rankings. *Just one list, so that both the 'tube addict' can keep organised, and the 'lurker' can save big time - by simply checking the updated list. *Of course we can customize the factors we use, but those were just the ones I chose as most useful to me. We can even do some collaborative interactive tube ranking list, or maybe use just one specific post as the working 'hit list'.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It appears that your NU 6A6 have flat latter-box plates whereas mine have round plates. I wonder if they sound the same?


 
  Hi G, indeed our NU are different !!! Mine has printed on wordings whereas yours have engraved. You rounded tubes are more like the Mazda or Visseaux. Mine is flat as you have noticed. My version have oval micas. I doubt they sound the same. Yours looks like the real deal !!!
  
 Both micas are the same oval but the fins are different.
  
 In fact I noticed that my version is not the usual squad 6A6. It's a bit longer. The bottom getter (mine) is similar to the Mazda.
  
 How does yours sound G?


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> Hi G, indeed our NU are different !!! Mine has printed on wordings whereas yours have engraved. You rounded tubes are more like the Mazda or Visseaux. Mine is flat as you have noticed. My version have oval micas. I doubt they sound the same. Yours looks like the real deal !!!


 
  
 We don't know...  Either yours or mine could be rebrands.... or it might be that NU made both of them, but at different times. I see two listings for round-plate NUs on eBay, so in the interest of "tube science", I suggest you get yourself a pair!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> We don't know...  Either yours or mine could be rebrands.... or it might be that NU made both of them, but at different times. I see two listings for round-plate NUs on eBay, so in the interest of "tube science", I suggest you get yourself a pair!


 

 Hahaha ok let me see...eBay here I come !!!
  
 I don't see it. Which eBay?


----------



## gibosi

On the left, under "item location" I select "worldwide", so while I don't see everything on other countries' eBay, I see most of them....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6A6-National-Union-RCA-engraved-basesTUBES-TV7-tested-guaranteed-L112-/321873646114
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-National-Union-6A6-Matching-date-codes-Audio-Amp-Radio-Tested-at-100-100-NOS-/250971279006


----------



## UntilThen

The ones in 3s are in better condition. They are not engraved base. You think they are same as yours?
  
 Well it's $25 shipping for the pair whereas it's $12 shipping for the trio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Scrub the pair because one of them is RCA. I'll get the trio.
  
 Ok I'm 3 NU poorer.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I have to let it pass. Too many tubes for now. Let others sample it. I even let the GEC 6AS7G go and it sold for $165.50 for the straight base !!! and $222.50 for the round base !!! That's less than a pair of 5998. :basshead:   and a pair of ECC32 went for GBP261. Fortunately I was so engrossed in FDD20/ECC31 or I'd have burn another hole in my pocket.




Hi Guys, 

I was away, traveled to a different country. Had a lot of fun and guess what, I won this GEC pair and I'm trying not to buy after hearing too many people say don't buy these. I thought I would be out bid but nothing happened. 

What should I do? I'm in trouble. I told the seller I'm on vacation without Internet access to make this purchase. I'm such a noob when it comes to tube buying and eBay. 

Suggest something please. 

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Raven how much for the pair? Oh it was you who won the bid? Which one? Round or straight base?
  
 I don't think I should buy anymore. My tubes are overflowing.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven how much for the pair? Oh it was you who won the bid? Which one? Round or straight base?
> 
> I don't think I should buy anymore. My tubes are overflowing.




Round base for 222$. I was told that it might have left right balance issue considering the specs. I don't have balance on Elise or my DAC. When I use DAC with WASAPI driver, the audio controls are shifted to the DAC, I cannot control the volume from laptop or the balance. I'm ****ed!


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> The ones in 3s are in better condition. They are not engraved base. You think they are same as yours?
> 
> Well it's $25 shipping for the pair whereas it's $12 shipping for the trio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The top mica is different, so I can't say for sure....


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Before anyone here thinks that the FDD20/ECC31 is now the de facto standard, let me assure you that
> 
> ECC31 / 5998
> C3G / 5998
> ...




Can these adapters be used within Elise? How much are these? Looking sexy.. LOL


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Before anyone here thinks that the FDD20/ECC31 is now the de facto standard, let me assure you that
> ...


 
 Can only use these in WA5


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> The top mica is different, so I can't say for sure....


 

 Oh well we could end up with 3 different versions of NU. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty close to yours though.
  
 Ah I see you have those plastic shields at the top micas like my 1st pair.
  
 These NU better sound good I have 5 now !!!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Round base for 222$. I was told that it might have left right balance issue considering the specs. I don't have balance on Elise or my DAC. When I use DAC with WASAPI driver, the audio controls are shifted to the DAC, I cannot control the volume from laptop or the balance. I'm ****ed!


 

 I don't understand why there would be a balance problem? Elise is quite resilient to unmatched tubes. See if anyone here wants to rescue you.
  
 Or just use it yourself. It's the holy grail even if unmatched


----------



## UntilThen

Oh my goodness 2 ECC31 sounds so good today. What happened? Maybe I gave it a low ranking yesterday and it's showing me who's boss now.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I don't understand why there would be a balance problem? Elise is quite resilient to unmatched tubes. See if anyone here wants to rescue you.
> 
> Or just use it yourself. It's the holy grail even if unmatched




I am told by senior Elise owners  I told you my problem, I'll not be able to set the balance of there is an imbalance. What happens if I don't pay for the tubes? 

Who wants the holy grail?


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I am told by senior Elise owners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well you're basically committed unless you want a bad buyer's feedback. I don't think you can back out now because the seller would have lost the opportunity to sell it to the next lower bidder.
  
 You have 2 choices. Use it yourself. If it turns out well, you have the best power tubes. Or if someone here would be willing to buy it off you.
  
 Just do 2 extra hours overtime and you'll be fine.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Well you're basically committed unless you want a bad buyer's feedback. I don't think you can back out now because the seller would have lost the opportunity to sell it to the next lower bidder.
> 
> You have 2 choices. Use it yourself. If it turns out well, you have the best power tubes. Or if someone here would be willing to buy it off you.
> 
> Just do 2 extra hours overtime and you'll be fine. :bigsmile_face:




Haha over time? I live in middle east, work conditions are so tough, no over time, no weekend, I work like a doctor, 24 hours on call. And during recent travels, I got spspeeding tickets worth 300$, this really broke my back. 

So who wants the GEC A1834? Holy grail, and would like to save me from bad feedback lol I'm serious!


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Round base for 222$. I was told that it might have left right balance issue considering the specs. I don't have balance on Elise or my DAC. When I use DAC with WASAPI driver, the audio controls are shifted to the DAC, I cannot control the volume from laptop or the balance. I'm ****ed!




Seller has a 30 day return policy:

"You can give back whitin 30 Days, when its not as descripted we pay for the return, when you are not happy and all others is as descripted you pay the return"

Buy and return if you really regret them. You would be out shipping both ways...

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Seller has a 30 day return policy:
> 
> "You can give back whitin 30 Days, when its not as descripted we pay for the return, when you are not happy and all others is as descripted you pay the return"
> 
> ...


 

 Oh yes that is possible too. My 1st pair of ECC31 came and I look at it and knew it's not up to scratch so I contacted the seller and said I think the tubes are not in the condition I expected and wish to return. To my surprise he said ok no problem. Refunded my money even before I post the tubes back to him. That's trust !!!
  
 You have to pay return shipping though as JV says. But I suggest you try it first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Raven, try contacting the seller and said you make a mistake see what he says before he sends it out.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Seller has a 30 day return policy:
> 
> "You can give back whitin 30 Days, when its not as descripted we pay for the return, when you are not happy and all others is as descripted you pay the return"
> 
> ...




Thanks JV, that's my only bet. I'll experience GEC for a while and probably return them. Just mentioning them here if anyone else wants to grab them as I'm in a tough condition to pay for them. Besides, I'm selling my headphones, they'll probably go today as a buyer contacted me. I'll have nothing to hear, no phones. My 3 x ECC31, 1 x 5998 are in transit, also the ECC31 adapters. Everything might arrive end of November. I'm not going to be able to listen to GEC at all.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Oh yes that is possible too. My 1st pair of ECC31 came and I look at it and knew it's not up to scratch so I contacted the seller and said I think the tubes are not in the condition I expected and wish to return. To my surprise he said ok no problem. Refunded my money even before I post the tubes back to him. That's trust !!!
> 
> You have to pay return shipping though as JV says. But I suggest you try it first. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Raven, try contacting the seller and said you make a mistake see what he says before he sends it out.




As I just stated, I'll not be able to test them if I sell my phones today :/


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Thanks JV, that's my only bet. I'll experience GEC for a while and probably return them. Just mentioning them here if anyone else wants to grab them as I'm in a tough condition to pay for them. Besides, I'm selling my headphones, they'll probably go today as a buyer contacted me. I'll have nothing to hear, no phones. My 3 x ECC31, 1 x 5998 are in transit, also the ECC31 adapters. Everything might arrive end of November. I'm not going to be able to listen to GEC at all.




I think you will have to purchase them. There is no way to transfer the 'win' to another Ebay'er, LR.

We had talked about these when they were for auction and was surprised the bid did not go higher, since they have been seen to go for almost $500.00 a pair. Then someone said this pair measured somewhat low.

Does anyone know what a strong pair should have measured?

.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> As I just stated, I'll not be able to test them if I sell my phones today :/


 

 Come here Raven. Help me with my testing and bring those holy grail. 
  
 There's nothing wrong with these ECC31. Why did I score them so low?


----------



## Lord Raven

hpamdr said:


> Got my Elise for two full listening sessions...
> The Elise is a wonderful amp, I did choose Visseaux 6N7GT and GE 6AS7GA for the burning sessions. I changed the 6H13C which was a bit muddy and not precise enough (_probably because out of the box_).
> When I will have the feeling that the sound is a bit stabilized I will try other combination.. as I do not have my tube collection at my place this is easier
> I like a lot what I listen for now specially with small ensemble and voices. Organ rendering is also very good but from one session to another, more and more details are added and the tonality balance seems to be "real".
> ...




Many congratulations  

Keep in touch with the forum and discover your favorite sound signature.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> I think you will have to purchase them. There is no way to transfer the 'win' to another Ebay'er, LR.
> 
> We had talked about these when they were for auction and was surprised the bid did not go higher, since they have been seen to go for almost $500.00 a pair. Then someone said this pair measured somewhat low.
> 
> ...




I can purchase them and re route them to someone else. 

I'm interested in knowing that either, actually that's when I dropped the idea of buying them when someone said they test low. Maybe they're under rated.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I can purchase them and re route them to someone else.
> 
> I'm interested in knowing that either, actually that's when I dropped the idea of buying them when someone said they test low. Maybe they're under rated.




Definitely sounds like you have the right to return them, LR, I think you have to go through with the purchase, and return them if you feel they were not worth the money. Understand about selling your headphones, but borrow some, so you can at least audition them.....

:rolleyes:

.


----------



## Suuup

Has anyone tried the Tung Sol 6N7G yet?


----------



## UntilThen

Gibosi has one. Oh wait he has the 6A6.
  
 Ummm ECC31 is a good benchmark amongst all the 6N7G and 6A6.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Gibosi has one. Oh wait he has the 6A6.


 
 So not a Tung Sol 6N7G?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Come here Raven. Help me with my testing and bring those holy grail.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with these ECC31. Why did I score them so low?




I'm coming soon lol Remember? 

And we're talking about GEC scores..


----------



## UntilThen

Haha yes come soon. Well we need to pair the FDD20/ECC31 with GEC 6AS7G. That is the bomb.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, I got one 5998 tube. I couldn't find another for a good price. I won this one for 112$ and shipping :/ I just won a 421A tube that's 150$ and shipping. 

My question is, can I use these two power tubes together? Or will there be issues that I'm not aware of? Also, at 150$ is it a good buy?



Item #221933201334, Electric Electron Tube no. 421A 3-83 100793199 New old stock


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Wonderful idea about the tube rankings system, guys. I think we're really on the right track - @UntilThen, @mordy, @JazzVinyl etc.
> 
> This is actually what I also do for all the tubes with my other amp. For me, I generally rank them based upon clarity, THD, bass, energy, dynamics and soundstage. These are my personal 6 main factors in ranking the sonic performance of a tube. I elaborate:
> 
> ...


 

 Hi DL,
  
 That is a great suggestion. Good stuff. Not sure how much more luxury time I'll have left. Will try this though but it's going to take 6 months.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Guys, I got one 5998 tube. I couldn't find another for a good price. I won this one for 112$ and shipping :/ I just won a 421A tube that's 150$ and shipping.
> 
> My question is, can I use these two power tubes together? Or will there be issues that I'm not aware of? Also, at 150$ is it a good buy?


 

 Yes and Yes.
  
 No reason why you can't use them together even though a lot of people claim the 421a is a lot better than 5998. I'm not convinced though. $150 is definitely a good price if it's ok condition.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Yes and Yes.
> 
> No reason why you can't use them together even though a lot of people claim the 421a is a lot better than 5998. I'm not convinced though. $150 is definitely a good price if it's ok condition.




Check out the tube, I just updated my last post. I am afraid of 421A is better than 5998 then this might make me buy another tube which will be impossible.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> Oh well we could end up with 3 different versions of NU.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It appears that almost every NU 6A6 we see is different from all the others! lol. So my advice is to post good pictures of the tubes you review so that people will know which version to buy, or not to buy....


----------



## UntilThen

Well just to prove something, I'll use one Tung Sol 5998 and one Tung Sol 7236 (5998 equivalent but meant for commercial) and I'll let you know how they go.


----------



## Suuup

gibosi said:


> It appears that almost every NU 6A6 we see is different from all the others! lol. So my advice is to post good pictures of the tubes you review so that people will know which version to buy, or not to buy....


 
 Hey G,
 Do you have a Tung Sol 6N7G?


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It appears that almost every NU 6A6 we see is different from all the others! lol. So my advice is to post good pictures of the tubes you review so that people will know which version to buy, or not to buy....


 

 G, these tubes are so old and rare now I doubt you'll find similar tubes exactly the same again.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> Gibosi has one. Oh wait he has the 6A6.


 
   
 True. I do not have the Tung-Sol 6N7G. I do have a Tung-Sol 6A6. The top mica is cross-shaped and very different. I couldn't find a Tung-Sol 6N7G, so bought the 6A6 instead.


----------



## Suuup

gibosi said:


> True. I do not have the Tung-Sol 6N7G. I do have a Tung-Sol 6A6. The top mica is cross-shaped and very different. I couldn't find a Tung-Sol 6N7G, so bought the 6A6 instead.


 
 Ah. I have one 6N7G Tung Sol, so I'm looking for another one.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> G, these tubes are so old and rare now I doubt you'll find similar tubes exactly the same again.


 
  
 In my experience, if you are patient, the tube you are looking for will eventually pop up. So if I see a tube that someone has rated highly, I keep a picture handy, and I keep looking.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> That is a great suggestion. Good stuff. Not sure how much more luxury time I'll have left. Will try this though but it's going to take 6 months.


 
 Oh no, my evaluation methods were just a suggestion. Maybe just make an overall rating for each tube you try. The factors I used for my tube eval's were just for my own ways, and it is extremely helpful for the tube roller themself to have a list like this, so when they want a particular sound then we can just use the cheat-sheet to grab the right tube. And of course if we keep these notes from the very first try, it would save time.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Well just to prove something, I'll use one Tung Sol 5998 and one Tung Sol 7236 (5998 equivalent but meant for commercial) and I'll let you know how they go.




Looking forward to it  

Also, can someone say a word of GEC A1834 rating?


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Looking forward to it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You need to post the test results. G might / will be able to tell you.
  
 I'm trying one 5998 and one 7236 now.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You need to post the test results. G might / will be able to tell you.
> 
> I'm trying one 5998 and one 7236 now.




Tested with calibrated
Hickok 539B


60/50 MWT
65/60 Haltron label little glas rattle inside 

good start @ 50 


30 Days Return guarantee


----------



## UntilThen

*2 ECC31 with Tung Sol 5998 and Tung Sol (IBM) 7236*
  
 Works like a charm. Sounds so dynamic !!! I really marvel at Elise. No reason why 421a wouldn't combined with 5998.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> *2 ECC31 with Tung Sol 5998 and Tung Sol (IBM) 7236*
> 
> Works like a charm. Sounds so dynamic !!! I really marvel at Elise. No reason why 421a wouldn't combined with 5998.





Great, thanks for the test run. What about the price? Isn't it way pricy? Even if I find 5998 in good price, it'll be like around 100. I found a tube for 75 here but that seller wasn't interested in international shipping. I'm confused.


----------



## gibosi

lord raven said:


> Tested with calibrated
> Hickok 539B
> 
> 60/50 MWT
> ...


 
  
 I am not familiar with that tester, so I don't know what the value would be for new. However, I think it is safe to say that there is not a whole lot of life left in these tubes as they measure very close to the minimum, which is 50. That said, they should still be good for at least several hundreds of hours, so they would give you a chance to see if you like the sound of the GECs. And if you do, enjoy them for as long as they last and keep an eye out for another pair, with more life in them.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Great, thanks for the test run. What about the price? Isn't it way pricy? Even if I find 5998 in good price, it'll be like around 100. I found a tube for 75 here but that seller wasn't interested in international shipping. I'm confused.


 

 IMO $150 is a good price for a WE 421A but then again I always pay a premium for my nearly new tubes. After the blown up 5998, I stayed away from tubes that look like zombies.
  
 Not many people buy 421A though not sure if it's worth spending a premium for those.


----------



## Lord Raven

gibosi said:


> I am not familiar with that tester, so I don't know what the value would be for new. However, I think it is safe to say that there is not a whole lot of life left in these tubes as they measure very close to the minimum, which is 50. That said, they should still be good for at least several hundreds of hours, so they would give you a chance to see if you like the sound of the GECs. And if you do, enjoy them for as long as they last and keep an eye out for another pair, with more life in them.




Thanks G, what about the rattle inside one tube? Must be broken glass, shouldn't worry me I guess. 

I'll give them a try if my headphones are not sold by the time they arrive  My next headphones are stuck in Australia


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> IMO $150 is a good price for a WE 421A but then again I always pay a premium for my nearly new tubes. After the blown up 5998, I stayed away from tubes that look like zombies.
> 
> Not many people buy 421A though not sure if it's worth spending a premium for those.




What do you mean by tubes that look like zombies? I have the option to skip this purchase as it is a 2nd chance offer.


----------



## gibosi

lord raven said:


> Thanks G, what about the rattle inside one tube? Must be broken glass, shouldn't worry me I guess.


 
  
 Broken pieces of glass and mica rattling around inside tubes is quite common. I try to keep the glass in the bottom of the tube where I know it won't cause any problems.


----------



## gibosi

lord raven said:


> What do you mean by tubes that look like zombies? I have the option to skip this purchase as it is a 2nd chance offer.


 
  
 After some 70 years, it is impossible to know if a tube is NOS. And even it is NOS, chances are that it was not stored under clean, environmentally controlled conditions. So you really can't judge the tube's electrical health by appearances. IMO, if it measures NOS, that is all that matters. Clean the pins thoroughly and 99 times out of 100, it will be fine.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> What do you mean by tubes that look like zombies? I have the option to skip this purchase as it is a 2nd chance offer.


 

 Hahaha..I give you an example. I bought these 4 RCA coin base some time ago. They were advertised as being dug out from old church organ. When I received them they have mud on them like they were recovered from underground. I clean and polish them and was lucky they turn out like new. It could have been zombies though.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wow 
  
*CanJam Singapore 2016 -- the first CanJam in Asia -- is on!   20-21 Feb 2016.​*  
*Oh Singapore how can I forget you...must try and make it. Bring Elise !!!​*


----------



## UntilThen

Guys I found it !!!  I found the end.
  
*FDD20/Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G.  10/10*
  
 This pairing is dangerous. It's the point of no return.
  
 This is JAWS...don't go in the water.
  
 Wow the BITE is real.
  
 Mordy try this pairing and be prepared not to sleep. I'll get a picture. Wish you can hear the sound.
  
 Mazda has more attack, bite and energy than ECC31. Combine with FDD20 it's explosive.
  
 ECC31 and Mazda are both good though. There are times you don't want to rule the dance floor. You just want ballet polish that's when you want ECC31.
  
 FDD20 with Mazda or ECC31 are so incredibly good. I would switch to other tubes and forget about them only to return and go 'WHAT'??? What is this unearthly sound. Total disbelief.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Guys I found it !!!  I found the end.
> 
> FDD20/Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G.



There is no such thing.
That said: Sweet. Guess I'll have to find a Mazda as well as a Tung Sol. 
Does the 6N7G have the same amplification factor as FDD20?


----------



## UntilThen

How do I interpret these dates codes on the NU I just bought.
  
*3 National Union 6A6 Matching date codes UB Tested at 100/100 on my Triplett 3413 NOS*


----------



## UntilThen

Elise successor is here.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/786512/sennheiser-orpheus-successor-the-sennheiser-he1060-hev1060-first-look#post_12046186
  
 Dang just when I bought all my tubes....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Elise successor is here.
> Dang just when I bought all my tubes....




Elise competitor...

I like the way it's shown: "up in the clouds" 

.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Guys I found it !!!  I found the end.
> 
> *FDD20/Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G.  10/10*
> 
> ...


 
 Guys, why do you use one FDD20 tube and not two? Is there an issue with the external heater circuit? Do you need two circuits to power both tubes?
  
 Also, is it a good price for FDD20, 30 euro for two tubes? I might buy this tube and give it a go, but I don't want to do a combo thing, it looks highly asymmetrical LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks G, I am still thinking of GEC tubes in my Elise :/ Can't make up my mind, I don't want to disappoint myself if there is an issue with the rating of those tubes I just won.
  
 Quote:


gibosi said:


> Broken pieces of glass and mica rattling around inside tubes is quite common. I try to keep the glass in the bottom of the tube where I know it won't cause any problems.


 
  
 Great information, I wish I could learn how to tell if the tube is rating good or bad. I am such a noob.
  


gibosi said:


> After some 70 years, it is impossible to know if a tube is NOS. And even it is NOS, chances are that it was not stored under clean, environmentally controlled conditions. So you really can't judge the tube's electrical health by appearances. IMO, if it measures NOS, that is all that matters. Clean the pins thoroughly and 99 times out of 100, it will be fine.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Hahaha..I give you an example. I bought these 4 RCA coin base some time ago. They were advertised as being dug out from old church organ. When I received them they have mud on them like they were recovered from underground. I clean and polish them and was lucky they turn out like new. It could have been zombies though.


 
 Right now, you're the most active tube roller on Elise and probably on head-fi. Someone sent me a PM on diyAudio saying, Elise thread has become a tube rolling thread rather than an amplifier thread.. Which, I don't know is good or bad LOL It definitely sounded ****ed up!!! Haha!!!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

*2x FDD20/Mullard 6080* reporting in @ 61 hours on the new '20:

Bass has improved dramatically in the new tube.

When new, the differences in the 200+ hour FDD20 and NOS tube are easily heard. New tube lacked bass, less space/air in the mids, can sound 'congested' on busy passages.

They are coming closer together now, with the bass having firmed up. You can hear that the midrange in the more mature tube is better. Looking forward to the younger tube catching up, in the midrange department.

A bonus comes, in that this is the coolest my amp has ever run. Having both drivers up off the deck, and not drawing any Elise current to run the drivers, has made a nice temperature difference. My am deck is "only warm" to the touch.





.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Guys I found it !!!  I found the end.
> 
> *FDD20/Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G.  10/10*
> 
> ...




I love it!! We have attained 10/10!!!

Who has a Mazda 6N7G, they can spare me!!!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Right now, you're the most active tube roller on Elise and probably on head-fi. Someone sent me a PM on diyAudio saying, Elise thread has become a tube rolling thread rather than an amplifier thread.. Which, I don't know is good or bad LOL It definitely sounded ****ed up!!! Haha!!!!!!


 

 I'm only scratching the surface compared to what Gibosi and Mikelap has. Just look at Mike's steel boxes. Like I say if you buy Elise and just stay with the stock tubes, it's like eating Spaghetti for every meal. You're missing out on the lobsters !!! 
  
 So after you get a tube amp you start tube rolling. 
  
 As for why we mix and match or go combo, it's the 'in' thing lol. Seriously the FDD20/ECC31 magic combination was discovered by H1 and as usual he has a ear for good sound. As I said, I was once a skeptic but now I believe.  Never in my nightmare would I think I'll end up using 12V AC adapter to power tubes in my Elise. I'm still trying to find 'normal' tubes that gives me a better sound than the combo but I have not been able. This is how good the combo is.
  
 Be warn. There is no return once you try it. Lukasz smile when I told him. Says it will be noted for Mk2 of Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> *2x FDD20/Mullard 6080* reporting in @ 61 hours on the new '20:
> 
> A bonus comes, in that this is the coolest my amp has ever run. Having both drivers up off the deck, and not drawing any Elise current to run the drivers, has made a nice temperature difference. My am deck is "only warm" to the touch.


 
 JV, that's a nice bonus. Watching your space to see how 2 FDD20 pans out. But seriously I need eye patches.
  


jazzvinyl said:


> I love it!! We have attained 10/10!!!
> 
> Who has a Mazda 6N7G, they can spare me!!!!


 
 Well, all I can say regarding ECC31 and Mazda is this. They are different sauces for your hotdogs. ECC31 has Mayonnaise and Mazda has Chilli. What sauce you want with your hotdogs is up to you. It's still hotdogs and delicious. Hope that helps. 
  
 Mazda is hot literally. It has bite and attack. That's my impression compared to the smoother ECC31.


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


>


 
 Hi JV,
  
 I still wonder how you connect the wires to the adapter contacts through the small holes. Are they soldered? If so do you heat the contact from the other/inner (tube) side while inserting the wire from the outside (through the hole)??


----------



## UntilThen

Nep they are not soldered. At least not the one that JV makes for me. The wires go through the holes and are just laid over the contacts. When you insert the FDD20 it will contact and keep those wire in place. The wires are sandwiched between the FDD20 pins and the adapter contact points.
  
 Just make sure the 2 wires don't touch each other.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> I still wonder how you connect the wires to the adapter contacts through the small holes. Are they soldered? If so do you heat the contact from the other/inner (tube) side while inserting the wire from the outside (through the hole)??




Hello Neph...

All is explained here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1125#post_12045520

Soooooo many messages flying in and out of here - easy to miss stuff!

Cheers!

.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

I have the Mazda and the Chatham - waiting to receive the FDD20 and EEC31, hopefully in the near future.

Meanwhile, my power tubes of choice are Sylvania 6AS7GA with copper rods. Somebody pointed out that the copper rods only serve as supports inside the tube and should not have any bearing on the sound.

This could very well be true - all I know is that the 6AS7GA tubes with the copper posts sound better than the others. The copper posts in this case are only used as a means of identifying this particular tube production. I seem to remember something similar regarding the Tung Sol Chatham 6AS7G tubes where the ones with copper rods are more highly regarded than the version with regular silver colored support rods.

Dept of Philosophy:

If good is good, isn't better better? 

I see that you have reached a 10/10 scoring tube combination. Enjoy!
Wouldn't be surprised if we can come up with a tube combination that is going to better than that 10/10 - how about a 11/11 combination?

Time will tell, especially now when the (previously unimaginable) floodgates have opened up to all kinds of tube rolling possibilities!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes precisely Mordy. I'm waiting for you to find 11/10 and I know you can. I need your feedback regarding Mazda and ECC31. Mike and Nep has already confirmed their similarities. Initially they sounded same to me but with extended listening I find Mazda has attack and bite which makes it exciting. ECC31 is still nice and smooth.
  
 With both and FDD20 it's a potent combination. Waiting for your feedback.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, that's a nice bonus. Watching your space to see how 2 FDD20 pans out. But seriously I need eye patches.




Maybe the custom Ceramic FDD20 adapters that I plan to work on, will be easier on the eyes, UT.



.


----------



## nephilim

Thanks JV!! I saw your description but apparently neither read the last sentences properly nor saw the drillholes ending above the contacts!! I soldered .8mm thick contact plates to the end of the cables and squeeze the plates between the plastic casing and the adapter contacts... An even more brutal waterfall )


----------



## UntilThen

Meanwhile the National Union 6A6 continues to shine. I'm loving it even though I have 3 more coming, thanks to Gibosi for introducing more fireworks. Now I'm really curious whether they will sound different. Also the Visseaux 6A6. So many possibilities. Fortunately these tubes are cheap. 
  
 These are more pictures so you can see which version of NU I'm talking about right now. Tearing my hair in exasperations that there are 3 different looking version of NU 6A6 and there are probably more. Don't they believe in standardisations in those days?


----------



## UntilThen

*FDD20/National Union 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 I'm in full swing now with mix and match. It's no surprise that this combo sounds nice too. NU 6A6 probably just trailing Mazda and ECC31...just.
 NU 6A6 seems more open and airy. It has less snap attack compared to Mazda and ECC31. Bass is nearly on par but not quite yet. Midrange is projected forward as in the other 2 and that is nice. I'm really hoping with extended burn in, the 6A6 will become more exciting.
 FDD20 signature is evident in all scenarios. Can't wait to try 2 FDD20 but that means 2 eye patches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This thing looks monstrous.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Thanks JV!! I saw your description but apparently neither read the last sentences properly nor saw the drillholes ending above the contacts!! I soldered .8mm thick contact plates to the end of the cables and squeeze the plates between the plastic casing and the adapter contacts... An even more brutal waterfall )




No problem, Neph!

Have 4 of these on the way:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400490426464

They appear to have more room to work with inside, hope to solder up all the Octal connections to FDD20 and have power wires come out at the rear. Will fill the ceramic basin with resin, to make it permanent.

That's the hope 

.


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> Hello H1, can you tell me which driver and power tubes you were using for this setup mentioned above?
> 
> And is it you that is the founder of Feliks Audio? (or do I just have my wires crossed
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL...thanks to UT for filling you in - yes I was asleep lol!...this FDD20/ECC31 + GEC CV2523 (6AS7G) + Elise is truly in another league entirely, IMHO. Especially - as I mentioned a while back - with _a lot_ of hours on the 20/31!!
 And all I can lay claim to is 'co-founder' of the Elise, I'm afraid...after all, I had to leave _something_ for the Feliks-Audio guys to do!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


lord raven said:


> Right now, you're the most active tube roller on Elise and probably on head-fi. Someone sent me a PM on diyAudio saying, Elise thread has become a tube rolling thread rather than an amplifier thread.. Which, I don't know is good or bad LOL It definitely sounded ****ed up!!! Haha!!!!!!


 
  
 Hi LR.
 I can understand their comments...but as we are not (yet!!) able/willing to get inside and do some diy mods, the only way _*we*_ can push a new amp to see just what it is capable of is by....*tube rolling!!!*...I rest my case, lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I have the Mazda and the Chatham - waiting to receive the FDD20 and EEC31, hopefully in the near future.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi m...I agree with your hunch re. the copper posts - too much of a coincidence that they so often appear in tubes that get the highest praise, lol!...but then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And Aaaahhhh....the achievement of perfection?...I've thought that a good few times!!  I suppose 'perfection' can only ever be a fleeting, ephemeral concept...but one which is indeed valid..._at a moment in time_...just like '_true love?!'_...But oh! the joy of that moment!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. As time goes by, I'm certain those moments come along less and less often...so we must savour them to the full when they come, non? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Paint me cynical, but I feel I am approaching the latter days of such bliss...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...  ie. I'll eat my darned hat if I find anything to surpass my current tube setup, lol!! (just as well I can't stand wearing the dang things!).
  
 ps. How about an 11/10 combo?!!...now _there's_ a challenge, folks...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> *FDD20/National Union 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G*
> 
> I'm in full swing now with mix and match. It's no surprise that this combo sounds nice too. NU 6A6 probably just trailing Mazda and ECC31...just.
> NU 6A6 seems more open and airy. It has less snap attack compared to Mazda and ECC31. Bass is nearly on par but not quite yet. Midrange is projected forward as in the other 2 and that is nice. I'm really hoping with extended burn in, the 6A6 will become more exciting.
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...one thing's for sure - the common denominator providing the magical fairy dust sure looks to be the...*FDD20!!!*  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. This, to me, is a most incredible tube lol!...(and she looks gorgeous, too!!).


----------



## hypnos1

And so, folks, after recent talk of people not receiving their ebay goodies, I've been having nightmares about my GEC/Osram A1834 (labelled Haltron) lucky find not turning up - believing the vendor caught my jubilant post here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Relieved to say he didn't, and it has!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...and it looks like it just came straight off the production line - which not all NOS tubes do, by any means lol!...as g says...
  
  
 Plugged her in...with shaking hands!...and yet one more of those 'perfect' moments (11/10 even!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The more I look at these tubes (let alone _listen _to them), the more I drool over them...they are a Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin all rolled into one...sheer magic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 (Especially when got for the price of a Mini, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)... :
  

  
 Can't you just feel the _luuuv_ between her and the FDD20 in front?!...There'll be no talk of divorce here, I can assure you, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 CHEERS! everyone...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> And so, folks, after recent talk of people not receiving their ebay goodies, I've been having nightmares about my GEC/Osram A1834 (labelled Haltron) lucky find not turning up - believing the vendor caught my jubilant post here! :eek: .
> 
> Relieved to say he didn't, and it has!!...:bigsmile_face: :bigsmile_face: :bigsmile_face: ...and it looks like it just came straight off the production line - which not all NOS tubes do, by any means lol!...as g says...
> 
> ...





WOW!!!! That is beautiful, H1!

It really LOOKS "Rolls Royce", too!!

And your custom FDD20 adapter, looks "Rolls Royce", as well!

I am sure it sounds SO SO FINE! Wish I could hear it for myself!

Congrats on the lucky tube acquisition and the lucky reward in sonics, that I sure you are hearing and enjoying!

Yeah for hypnos1!

You deserve this, my friend! Happy for you!



.


----------



## Lord Raven

lord raven said:


> Guys, why do you use one FDD20 tube and not two? Is there an issue with the external heater circuit? Do you need two circuits to power both tubes?
> 
> Also, is it a good price for FDD20, 30 euro for two tubes? I might buy this tube and give it a go, but I don't want to do a combo thing, it looks highly asymmetrical LOL




People, I need a quick word on this..


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And so, folks, after recent talk of people not receiving their ebay goodies, I've been having nightmares about my GEC/Osram A1834 (labelled Haltron) lucky find not turning up - believing the vendor caught my jubilant post here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, that is definitely a double WOW. Yes I agree with JV. You deserve this.
  
 However I'm drooling like a St Bernard looking at your flush FDD20 on Elise. That is neat and professional. How do you do it? Come on, come one share the secret. I can throw away the eye patches with that setup. I'll have a Aston Martin DB5 because that's used several times in James Bond movies.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> People, I need a quick word on this..


 

 Raven, the short answer is one FDD20 sounds best with a Mazda or ECC31. Don't ask me how, why, please explain. Just plug it in and hear for yourself. As for asymmetrical or symmetrical, that depends on your eyes orientation. There is an optional eye patch kit if that helps.
  
 30 euros for 2 is a good price. I paid 22 euro for a NOS FDD20 but I made a friend out of the German seller. I will visit him in Berlin one day.
  
 You need only one 12V AC adapter to power 2 FDD20. See JV's tutorial. JV is doing an extended test with 2 FDD20 with 2 5998.
  
 I agree with you Raven fully. I like symmetrical too. Who wouldn't. Until I can find a symmetrical pair that sounds better than the 2031, I'm afraid I will stay asymmetrical aside from my tube rolling with other tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> H1, that is definitely a double WOW. Yes I agree with JV. You deserve this.
> 
> However I'm drooling like a St Bernard looking at your flush FDD20 on Elise. That is neat and professional. How do you do it? Come on, come one share the secret. I can throw away the eye patches with that setup. I'll have a Aston Martin DB5 because that's used several times in James Bond movies.




LOL...it really cracks me up when you speak of the Eye Patch, UT!!

I was really worried when I sent you the FDD20 and adapted Ebay adapter....that you would SO HATE the way it looked, that it would taint you, and you not like accept the sound advantage.

Was glad when you *did* accept the *looks vs sound*.

I have tried and failed, twice to make the H1 style adapter. There are a number of frustrating problems in trying to make this one. The socket diameter just BARELY accepts the FDD20 foot. You have to solder on to the FDD20 "flippers" (for lack of a better word) and they were NOT designed to have anything soldered onto them. 

Then, if you do get it all working there is a possibility of ruining the tube after all the work you did, when you try to finalize everything with resin that pours in, then hardens.

This is why I want to try the ceramic Octal bases that have a tad more room in them. It seems, in theory, that this fact might make the job a little more tolerable.

I do still have one more base like seen in H1's picture...I could try again. Maybe the third time is the charm?


,


----------



## nephilim

Oh, this FDD20 adapter by H1 looks sweet )
  
 Any pointers on how to make such a thing, especially which components are needed, would be very welcome!


----------



## aqsw

Looks lke I'm #2 on the cue know. I will #26 then.

Thinking back in 1973 I ordered a car to be made. Certain color andrt options. I had it in 6 weeks. (yellow dodge dart swinger).


----------



## UntilThen

I think what won me over is definitely the sound I hear. At the expense of being a parrot, I have to say I hear no channel imbalance. If others did, they certainly have better hearing than me. Secondly what is important for me in the enjoyment of a tube amp is that there be no hum or any noise. The fact that I'm experiencing total silence with this setup of 2031 or for that matter all tubes, whether power or drivers in my inventory, speaks of the remarkable design and work put into Elise.
  
 Lukasz in response to my email thanking him and his dad, says his dad is extremely happy with our positive comments and feedbacks on this forum. Henryk is personally involved in each and every handcrafted Elise. It has his personal touch. I was shown a glimpse of the other stereo tube amps in the Feliks Audio lineup and I must say I better start saving for next Christmas.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I think what won me over is definitely the sound I hear. At the expense of being a parrot, I have to say I hear no channel imbalance. If others did, they certainly have better hearing than me. Secondly what is important for me in the enjoyment of a tube amp is that there be no hum or any noise. The fact that I'm experiencing total silence with this setup of 2031 or for that matter all tubes, whether power or drivers in my inventory, speaks of the remarkable design and work put into Elise.
> 
> Lukasz in response to my email thanking him and his dad, says his dad is extremely happy with our positive comments and feedbacks on this forum. Henryk is personally involved in each and every handcrafted Elise. It has his personal touch. I was shown a glimpse of the other stereo tube amps in the Feliks Audio lineup and I must say I better start saving for next Christmas.




I have been eyeing their $1000.00 speaker amp. It would match very well asthetically with the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Looks lke I'm #2 on the cue know. I will #26 then.
> 
> Thinking back in 1973 I ordered a car to be made. Certain color andrt options. I had it in 6 weeks.
> 
> ...


 

 But what car did you order in 1973. Elise is a Lamborghini ...oh wait she's a Lotus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This is my Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> But what car did you order in 1973. Elise is a Lamborghini ...oh wait she's a Lotus. :bigsmile_face:





nephilim said:


> Oh, this FDD20 adapter by H1 looks sweet )
> 
> Any pointers on how to make such a thing, especially which components are needed, would be very welcome!




Do you solder, Neph?

Have the map of what goes where from Octal to FDD20 pins.

.


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


> Do you solder, Neph?
> 
> Have the map of what goes where from Octal to FDD20 pins.
> 
> .


 

 Not a soldering expert here but usually the stuff turns out working 
  
 Do you guys use http://r.ebay.com/MHceeB and http://r.ebay.com/6hQz8d ? The map would help as well! I guess I could figure out the latter by combining the FDD20 and 6SN7 schematics on radiomuseum.org.


----------



## aqsw

What power supply is everybody using 12volt 2 amp?


----------



## UntilThen

Aqsw this for me...nothing fancy but works !  12V 3amp but don't think you need 3amp


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL...it really cracks me up when you speak of the Eye Patch, UT!!


 
 Think of the Duke. John Wayne.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Aqsw this for me...nothing fancy but works !  12V 3amp but don't think you need 3amp




Here is mine:


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Not a soldering expert here but usually the stuff turns out working
> 
> Do you guys use http://r.ebay.com/MHceeB and http://r.ebay.com/6hQz8d ? The map would help as well! I guess I could figure out the latter by combining the FDD20 and 6SN7 schematics on radiomuseum.org.




To do an H1 style adapter:

No use of the FDD base at all. He is direct soldering from FDD20 pins into an Octal socket.

H1's adapter is permanent, the tube can never be removed from the octal base, ever used as intended via the FDD20 base.

Cautions are:

1> There are solder joints at the base of the '20 pins...don't get them too hot, or you will bust the connection between the pin and the tube innards,

2> The base of FDD20 just barely fits into a standard Octal base...you have to add drops of solder on the ends of the '20 flippers to solder your wires to, like this:



But be careful not to have solder flowing over the edge of the flippers, else she won't fit in the base any more!

3> Have to use emery board and clean up the brass flippers on the '20.

4> Have to use flux to get solder to 'stick' on the cleaned up flipper ends.

And 'prolly a hundred more cautions 


It ain't easy, Neph!

.


----------



## UntilThen

In 1977, Fleetwood Mac released 'Don't Stop'. It was used by U.S presidential candidate Bill Clinton as the theme for his first campaign.
  
 'Don't stop thinking about tomorrow' applies to Elise and tube rolling. You have to find your dream setup.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well, looks like there's been two 10/10 combos here:
*FDD20/ECC31 with power tubes GEC 6AS7G                (H1)*
and 
*FDD20/Mazda 6N7G with power tubes Chatham 6AS7G (UntilThen)*
  
@UntilThen I'm personally thinking the FDD20/ECC31 with 5998 may be better for long listens, as it's more smooth & laid back, as you said.
  
But then what about your National Union 6A6 with 5998 (2 each) setup - so I guess you said this has a bit less punch and about the same amount of midrange, but about how are the soundstage, energy, frequency response in comparison? Maybe these will change after more burn in


----------



## DecentLevi

Also @hypnos1 and anybody else who has a sway with Feliks Audio. I sure hope you can persuade the designers to include the 12v voltage change option to allow the Elise v2 to work plug-n-play with the FDD20 tubes. But I think we better mention to them that *we need the option to only give 12v to one of the driver tubes* rather than to both at the same time - otherwise we would have to use two FDD20s without mixing options


----------



## UntilThen

I think H1 with his FDD20/ECC31 and GEC 6AS7G should hit 11/10. What you have there are the holy grail of the power tubes which I have not listen to yet. There are no less praise for those power tubes, just search the internet.
  
 Personally, I like FDD20 with either Mazda 6N7G or ECC31. Power tubes are Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. I'm careful here how I would describe the differences between 5998 and Chatham. I find 5998 more vibrant. Definitely more dynamic whereas Chatham is more soothing. There you go, both really good in this drivers pairing.
  
 NU 6A6 with 5998 is not quite there yet. When I listen to it on it's own, I'll be very happy but then as soon as I swap back to the above tubes setup, I'll be in awe and know there is a significant gap in sonic enjoyment according to my ears.
  
 If you want the best sound, you have to go with H1 setup or a cheaper alternative with mine I'm afraid. These are my opinions. It's not the be all and end all.
  
 Respectfully,
 UT


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Also @hypnos1 and anybody else who has a sway with Feliks Audio. I sure hope you can persuade the designers to include the 12v voltage change option to allow the Elise v2 to work plug-n-play with the FDD20 tubes. But I think we better mention to them that *we need the option to only give 12v to one of the driver tubes* rather than to both at the same time - otherwise we would have to use two FDD20s without mixing options


 

 You can be assured Lukasz is aware of developments and feedbacks from the forum. As conclusive as it is, I think we should really try 2 FDD20 with 2 GEC 6AS7G and burn it in for the long haul. You never know what that may turnout. JV is testing out 2 FDD20 and 2 5998.
  
 It would be too early at this point to say it's the end. I use those metaphors in my descriptions to state how I feel with those pairings. I think our tube rolling journey is far from over. This is how it is with acquiring a good tube amp. There is no end to exploring with the multitudes of tubes out there. This in my opinion is just the tip of the iceberg. You can be assured Elise sounds amazing with most tubes.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I think H1 with his FDD20/ECC31 and GEC 6AS7G should hit 11/10. What you have there are the holy grail of the power tubes which I have not listen to yet. There's are no less praise for those power tubes, just search the internet.
> 
> Personally, I like FDD20 with either Mazda 6N7G or ECC31. Power tubes are Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. I'm careful here how I would describe the differences between 5998 and Chatham. I find 5998 more vibrant. Definitely more dynamic whereas Chatham is more soothing. There you go, both really good in this drivers pairing.
> 
> ...




One correction - I changed to 2x FDD20 and Mullard 6080's as powers within a couple of hours of the burn in.

I am rounding the corner on 71 hours on the new FDD20 and I feel like I can say confidently, that while this sounds good (easily better than the majority of 6SN7's you would come across....

I am not hearing the absolute magic that the combo drivers provide.

At 71 hours, and 30 minutes, I tried the 2031 combo again...

I feel like the 2031 combo (with my fav phones and the Mullard 6080's) are the best I have heard from Miss Elise. I just put in the 6N7G Visseaux (Joybringer) instead of an ECC31 and it sounds really really good, too. Better, than 2x FDD20's.

I wish it weren't so! It's really rather amazing. The sound stage becomes several times more "interesting" when using the mixed drivers. All is great with paired drivers, to be sure. If you had never heard the combos, you would never have known what you were missing.

But...once experienced, there is no going back. The sound stage is far more involving/interesting/fun with the mixed drivers in this amp.

The difference is really not very subtle, as well. You will enjoy what happens when you mix 'em. As UT just stated, listening to a normal pair of drivers will surely satisfy, but when you go back to a combo...

Magic happens. It sounds a lot better.

I don't why.

I cannot explain it.

But I can 100% confirm and verify that it happens...the combos (in my amp, with my phones and my preferred powers) sounds better/more enjoyable to me than a pair of drivers that are the same.

The only parameter to watch out for, in mixing drivers is the gain factor. They have to be the same, or very close. If there are....enjoy.


.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> One correction - I changed to 2x FDD20 and Mullard 6080's as powers within a couple of hours of the burn in.
> 
> I am rounding the corner on 71 hours on the new FDD20 and I feel like I can say confidently, that while this sounds good (easily better than the majority of 6SN7's you would come across....
> 
> ...


 
 JV should I buy only one tube of FDD20?  Also, this breaks the warranty of Elise right? Why? We don't open it or anything. 
  
 And I really don't get why should we use only one tube, what is the logic behind it?


----------



## UntilThen

You can tell I'm not very convincing trying to get people to move away from FDD20/ECC31. I would use phrases like we've only just begun our tube rolling journey. Don't think that using 12V will bestow fairy dust. Or you better use eye patches.
  
 However the fact is I'm in awe with FDD20/ECC31 or Mazda 6N7G. Use it with GEC 6AS7G or Chatham 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998 or Mullard 6080 and it's an indescribable sound experience. I've run out of adjectives.
  
 I won't spoil others enjoyment of their tube rolling journey. I would like everyone to experiment rather than follow the trend. It's 12 days now with Elise and I've not stop going through my music collections. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I want to hear others impressions for a change.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys I am entering a new era of headphones listening, I have sold my beloved Focal Spirit One headphones today  I have nothing to listen to right now and I think this break will be used to tune my car audio system, I need to revamp that  Woohoo... Sennheiser HD600 are coming in January, couple of combo tubes are coming in end November and early December.... I can't wait to have my headphones


----------



## UntilThen

Forget car audio Raven. Even your Focal Ultima with your expensive Focal amps or my Dynaudio cannot compare with Elise and a good pair of headphones. The only advantage the car system has is a subterranean bass from my Morel Ultimo subwoofer. Even with tons of sound deadening materials in the doors and expensive audio sound processing units like the Audison Bit One, you're better off with a HD800 and Elise.
  
 Now I'll get flamed by every car audio enthusiasts


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Forget car audio Raven. Even your Focal Ultima with your expensive Focal amps or my Dynaudio cannot compare with Elise and a good pair of headphones. The only advantage the car system has is a subterranean bass from my Morel Ultimo subwoofer. Even with tons of sound deadening materials in the doors and expensive audio sound processing units like the Audison Bit One, you're better off with a HD800 and Elise.
> 
> Now I'll get flamed by every car audio enthusiasts


 
 You should listen to my car audio before you can compare is with Elise. Elise is good, but it cannot compare to real life audio systems that would project a sound stage right in front of your nose.
  
 I have heavily invested in car audio and there is no going back, I am upgrading my processor next. I just got my cables from USA, Focal Elite.
  
 I gave a 5 minute demo to the guy who bought my headphones, and his jaw dropped to the floor haha He listened to the Focal Spirit One headphones and the first thing he said after one minute of listening was, it is definitely better than the B&O P7 LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Agree. I said in jest. I wasn't talking soundstage anyway because headphone soundstage cannot compare with a properly setup car or home system. I too have invested heavily in my car audio systems. Processors and everything are professionally installed. I even won trophies but I rather not go into that. 
  
 However now I prefer the intimacy from headphone listening. Next I'll use Elise as a preamp on my home system. When I get around to it. !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> JV should I buy only one tube of FDD20?  Also, this breaks the warranty of Elise right? Why? We don't open it or anything.
> 
> And I really don't get why should we use only one tube, what is the logic behind it?




No mods to the Elise at all. No don't crack her open.

I don't know WHY it works the way it does LR. Just know that it does.
If you don't want to mess with 12v and you can't stand the idea of mixed drivers...

Just buy 5998's or Mullard 6080's and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 chrome tops from the 1950's and you will be very happy.

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Not breaking any warranty for sure. I told Lukasz how amazing Elise sounds with the funny combo we have in her and he was very pleased. Said it shows that Elise has a solid design to enable her to adapt to so many combination of tubes. He even said those ideas will be looked at in a 'future' revision but they are too busy now. Too many orders. !!!
  
 What JV says is true. Why don't you splash on a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and live happily thereafter?
  
 Or just be happy with 2 ECC31 and 2 5998 which you already have. I can't see how anyone can be unhappy with that. This with HD800 and it's end game. Just look at Nep. He has this setup and he's a happy man.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> No mods to the Elise at all. No don't crack her open.
> 
> I don't know WHY it works the way it does LR. Just know that it does.
> If you don't want to mess with 12v and you can't stand the idea of mixed drivers...
> ...


 
 Thanks JV, I am up for the combo but I might want to buy two FDD20 tubes and run them together.
  
 Is this the adapter for the FDD20? Link
  
 Unless you show me the Sylvania 6SN7 pictures or an eBay link, I will never be able to get it  
  
 So far, my end game is ECC31 tubes with 5998  LOL I still am missing one 5998, suggest me where to buy one single tube? I got 3 ECC31 coming my way, I need another to make it two pairs.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Raven, I'll trade my 5998 for your 421A. How's that? I have 3 5998 and I can trade one. 
  
 Make sure it's a genuine 421A and not an imitation.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Not breaking any warranty for sure. I told Lukasz how amazing Elise sounds with the funny combo we have in her and he was very pleased. Said it shows that Elise has a solid design to enable her to adapt to so many combination of tubes. He even said those ideas will be looked at in a 'future' revision but they are too busy now. Too many orders. !!!
> 
> What JV says is true. Why don't you splash on a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and live happily thereafter?
> 
> Or just be happy with 2 ECC31 and 2 5998 which you already have. I can't see how anyone can be unhappy with that. This with HD800 and it's end game. Just look at Nep. He has this setup and he's a happy man.


 
 Do you think I will goto the HD800 level?  LOL That might be an end game but not for me, I might buy home audio for that kind of money haha..
  
 Yes you're right, I am happy even without listening to the combo lol I still need a 5998, I only have one as I mentioned earlier. Also, need one ECC31 tube cause I got 3 of them.
  
 Regarding FDD20, I am will to buy this tube, they look bad ass vintage stuff and I want them for no good reason  LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Ok Raven, I'll trade my 5998 for your 421A. How's that? I have 3 5998 and I can trade one.
> 
> Make sure it's a genuine 421A and not an imitation.


 
 Bro, that 2nd chance offer expired but you can get the GEC combo from me anytime before 10th November, the seller just launched a non-payment case against me LOL 222 is their price and shipping is 18 anywhere around the world, I can give your address. If you really want to help me 
  
 If I talk to the 421A seller, he might give me the same 150$ offer again, you can see the stuff here, link.
  
 I will get the 5998 
  
 Edit: See the GEC A1834 here..


----------



## UntilThen

*Impression after 70 hours with Elise*
  
 After 11 days with Elise at an average of 7 hours a day which is very conservative, I want to update on my impression of Elise. I've use the stock tubes only once on the 1st day but then only for a few hours. Today I plug in the stock drivers Tung Sol 6sn7gtb (Made in Russia) and a pair of IBM 7236 (Tung Sol 5998 commercial equivalent). I left it playing on a long playlist while I went for a nap. 2 hours later, I got up and sat down to listen. It has warm up nicely. I initially wanted to put on my favourite tubes but because this setup sounded so good I decided to continue listening.
  
 Here are my thoughts. Before I continue, I'm using HD650 and NAD D1050, music from Tidal HiFi at 16/44.1hz CD quality.
  
 Impressions:-
 agile...there's no mistaking the tube warm but it's fast, faster than Hussein Bolt.
 treble has attack but feels smooth and non fatiguing
 midrange is amazing..very euphonic with tons of layers and clarity
 bass is so impactful and punchy on a bass filled track but remains controlled and poise throughout.
  
 It is musical, details galore, 7th row seat presentation, decay is spot on. There's thick chunky meat, choice cuts, to the music. It makes you want to sit down for an extended listen, song after song.
  
 It is easy to love Elise after the 70th hours of burn in with Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and Tung Sol 7236. I felt that the stock power tubes should have been this or the 5998. It would have been spot on.
  
 If you're looking for a tube amp of a high calibre in the < $1200 range, press the order button now without hesitation. It is that good.
  
 Without realising the time, I've actually sat through a listening session of 4 hours straight using these tubes. I revisited all of Eagles 'Best of', Patricia Barber's 'Cafe Blue', Ray Charles 'Genius Loves Company'. I was loving it so much I didn't know the passing of time. The HD650 caressing my ears and head so comfortably. 
  
 Then I remember what Lukasz told me, 'Elise will sound good with the stock tubes'. I agree but by changing the power tubes I can only say it sounds better than good.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Bro, that 2nd chance offer expired but you can get the GEC combo from me anytime before 10th November, the seller just launched a non-payment case against me LOL 222 is their price and shipping is 18 anywhere around the world, I can give your address. If you really want to help me
> 
> If I talk to the 421A seller, he might give me the same 150$ offer again, you can see the stuff here, link.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry Raven, I think I need to pause at this point on my tubes purchase. I could have bought a Eddie Current Zeus Deux so far but who needs that with Elise and the tubes I already have !!!
  
 Anymore tubes and I'll be narrating non stop !!!
  
 Besides I'm eyeing the HOM ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Funny how I pick up all these acronyms in this forum. HOM - Headphone of the month, DOM - DAC of the month, AOM - Amp of the month, TOM - Tube of the month !!!


----------



## UntilThen

*Mazda 6N7G / Tung Sol 7236*
  
 All was good with the stock tubes until I switch the drivers to Mazda 6N7G and I go 'What the......'
  
 I was mesmerised by the sight as well as the sound. You have heard of 'Six degrees of separation'. Well these are six degrees of sonic excellence.


----------



## Suuup

After leaving home for a day to visit my dad, I come home to 2 slips in my mailbox, saying I have packages waiting for me at the post office. One is from Cyprus, the other Hong Kong. Does that sound like a pair of Mullard 6080 and an FDD20 adapter to you?


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Suuup go to the post office NOW and I want photos, photos and photos.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ok Suuup go to the post office NOW and I want photos, photos and photos.



I will in about 20 minutes. They don't arrive at the post office until 1 PM.


----------



## UntilThen

Do you have problems with Tidal these 2 days? Mine is buffering and is unusable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think there's a global meltdown. Everyone here in Australia is complaining. 
 Fortunately I have 20,000 tracks in my iTunes in Apple Lossless.


----------



## Suuup

Okay, the second I pressed the 'Reply' button, the doorbell rang. I noticed a red hue through the door, and it was the 'Postmand'. He had a package for me.


----------



## UntilThen

Gasp !!! Do you have the adapters? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Are they Siemens or Lorenz? or Telefunken? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Show your C3G day.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Gasp !!! Do you have the adapters?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I believe they're Siemens. Is this good? I have no adapters yet, but I will get some from somewhere at some point. 
  
 Also, damn I uploaded some small pictures. It was directly from my phone, as I had no computer. Will upload some better ones when I get home from the post office. See you in half an hour!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Siemens are good. Even the cheaper Lorenz are good. I don't think there are any bad C3G. Despite H1's preference for the S version, I think my Lorenz sounds superb already. Telefunkens are the most expensive...must be super ..can't see why it would cost twice as much though as Siemens.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Then I remember what Lukasz told me, 'Elise will sound good with the stock tubes'. I agree but by changing the power tubes I can only say it sounds better than good.




I agree, the only slightly weak spot in the default Elise is the Power tubes. 
Have upgrades for those at the ready when she arrives, and you will be in great shape.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I was mesmerised by the sight as well as the sound. You have heard of 'Six degrees of separation'. Well these are six degrees of sonic excellence.




Purdy!!

Sounds great, and no JWEP (*J*ohn *W*ayne *E*ye *P*atch) needed 

*J*oy*B*ringers!


----------



## Suuup

Todays loot:
  
  

  
  







  
 Beware: These pictures are no where near as good as yours, as I am not a good photographer at all..
  
 I also forgot to tell you.. I picked up these guys yesterday:

  
 Sound impressions will have to wait for a while, as my ears are really bad for a while whenever I go cycling and it's cold outside.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Todays loot:
> Sound impressions will have to wait for a while, as my ears are really bad for a while whenever I go cycling and it's cold outside.




Excellent Suuup! This is what we call Red Letter Day in the US...the day when everything arrives, at once!

Your going to love all these tubes! 

Congrats!

2031/M6080 - here we come!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Excellent Suuup! This is what we call Red Letter Day in the US...the day when everything arrives, at once!
> 
> Your going to love all these tubes!
> 
> ...


 
 For now I'll try the 6080's with the ECC31's. Tonight I'll begin the diy and make the FDD20 work, if someone can assist me. Also, I'm not sure I actually have a soldering iron, I'll have to check.


----------



## Suuup

How do I detach the FDD20 from the adapter? Do I just pull?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> For now I'll try the 6080's with the ECC31's. Tonight I'll begin the diy and make the FDD20 work, if someone can assist me. Also, I'm not sure I actually have a soldering iron, I'll have to check.




Hello Suuup...sounds good. The ECC31/6080 will please, I guarantee!

No soldering iron needed for the DIY on the FDD adapter. 

Do you have a dremel to cut off pins 7 and 8? That and some black and red fingernail polish, scissors, and knife are all you need.


----------



## tjw321

Thanks for all the great posts. I don't know how you guys manage to get enough time to post so much - I can barely keep up just reading it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, here is my weekly "status report" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Having tried the stock tubes, then trying a couple of "in production" drivers (EH 6sn7 and TS 6sn7gtb) I managed to pick up a couple of ECC31s. These are the tubes where I had a little hum when my Elise was right next to my wireless phone base station. Cleaning the contacts reduced the hum to barely perceptible (not that is was ever significant - and away from the base-station it disappears no matter which tubes I use). It may be that I just reseated them a bit better, but a bit of contact cleaning might be worth trying.
 I'm glad that JV mentioned that the default powers were possibly a weak point because I noticed a big improvement when I got some Mullard 6080s in. In my Little Dot days, the powers never seemed to make a huge difference so I hadn't bothered with rolling them, at first.
 So, my current leader board, best last...
  
 Stock drivers/powers
 EH 6SN7/ stock powers
 TS 6SN7GTB/stock powers
 ECC31/stock powers
 ECC31/6080
  
 I haven't yet tried the 6080s with anything but the ECC31s - that may be this week's homework...if I can bear to take the ECC31s out...
  
 No combination has sounded anything less than excellent, and I haven't really used the stock drivers or EH 6SN7 enough to fairly judge them, but I am *really* enjoying the ECC31/6080 combo


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> How do I detach the FDD20 from the adapter? Do I just pull?




Yes, they call it "side contact" so go in at an angle





suuup said:


> How do I detach the FDD20 from the adapter? Do I just pull?




Yep, "Roll" it in. When removing hold by the bottom as far down as you can.


----------



## JazzVinyl

tjw321 said:


> Thanks for all the great posts. I don't know how you guys manage to get enough time to post so much - I can barely keep up just reading it.
> 
> Anyway, here is my weekly "status report"  .
> 
> ...




Hello tjw!

Yeah man, you have ECC31/Mullard 6080! Very nice! That is a superb choice of tubes! Congrats!

I agree 100% about the Little Dots and power tubes, I had the exact same experience, in that amp Powers seemed to make little difference. But they are game changes in Elise.

So happy for you, please kick back and enjoy the ride! Elise will carry you away!


----------



## Suuup

tjw321 said:


> Thanks for all the great posts. I don't know how you guys manage to get enough time to post so much - I can barely keep up just reading it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Seems we use the exact same tubes. What headphones do you have? If you say T1....


----------



## tjw321

suuup said:


> Seems we use the exact same tubes. What headphones do you have? If you say T1....


 
 Ha - yes! The other recent posts about the ECC31/6080 combo appeared while I was typing my post so it's all independent validation of how good this combo is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 I'm currently saving up for the T1s (unless I hear something better in the meantime). They've been my "dream 'phones" since hearing H1's at a UK meet-up (with the Elise, of course). I'm mostly using my AKG K702s with the Elise. I have some HD600s as well. They both sound great with the Elise though I've yet to try the HDs with the ECC31/6080 combo (More homework!).
 I won some ATH-MSR7s in a head-fi competition which I only use when I need some closed 'phones (I prefer open to closed) but the Elise makes them sound really good so I've been using them a bit as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Suuup - 

After cutting off pins Octal 7 & 8, and sealing w/the fingernail polish...

Just waterfall the power into the FDD20:



Power wires like this, then roll tube in to hold them...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup -
> 
> After cutting off pins Octal 7 & 8, and sealing w/the fingernail polish...
> 
> ...


 
 Ah, but it's the other end where I think I'll have to solder or come up with another solution.


----------



## Suuup

Turns out there is absolutely no need for a dremel. These are Chinese adapters after all.. The pins snapped right off:

 Could've done this with just my fingers, it really took no force at all.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Turns out there is absolutely no need for a dremel. These are Chinese adapters after all.. The pins snapped right off:
> Could've done this with just my fingers, it really took no force at all.




Noted!! Very good, Suuup!!!

You have four pins spaced closer together in FDD socket...the middle two, are the "12 in" pins...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Noted!! Very good, Suuup!!!


 
 This is also what I do every time I get a chord with a grounding pin...


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> This is also what I do every time I get a chord with a grounding pin...




Heard that! Seems counter intuitive...but have to in your sockets...
Think we're going to have to ground your 12v separately, but we will see...


----------



## Suuup

1½ months ago I had no tubes at all.. And there are more on the way!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> 1½ months ago I had no tubes at all.. And there are more on the way!




Very impressive, Suuup!

.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> 1½ months ago I had no tubes at all.. And there are more on the way!


 
 Beautiful, Elise will keep you many sleepless nights in cloud 9.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Heard that! Seems counter intuitive...but have to in your sockets...
> Think we're going to have to ground your 12v separately, but we will see...


 
 Thanks again for excellent tutorial on adapter. I haven't order FDD20 adapter yet , I was waiting to see your new custom adapter.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Thanks again for excellent tutorial on adapter. I haven't order FDD20 adapter yet , I was waiting to see your new custom adapter.




Hello CL...

Yes, the ceramic sockets are enroute and I worked on the FDD20 soldering part last night. So I hope it works out and I can make one that isn't quite as ugly and does not require a *JWEP*.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello CL...
> 
> Yes, the ceramic sockets are enroute and I worked on the FDD20 soldering part last night. So I hope it works out and I can make one that isn't quite as ugly and does not require a *JWEP*.


 
 Hey JV 
  
  
 I think I found the perfect combo to take you to 11/10. Elise+2031+Mary Jane.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Ah, but it's the other end where I think I'll have to solder or come up with another solution.




Picture needed....


----------



## UntilThen

It's exciting to see others getting excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Suuup this must be an as exciting day as when you get Elise. I remember the day 3 sets of tubes arrived. I don't know which to try first. !!! I'm waiting to hear more impressions from you. No doubt you'll love the ECC31/M6080. I didn't know you're a cycling fan too. I haven't got on my bike since Elise's arrival. 
  
 TJ, I'm expecting a daily report from you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I'm really pleased with your impressions and it concurs with everyone. The general consensus so far is that Elise sounds great with all tubes but then some really shine like crazy diamonds. I remember 1st trying ECC31. Elise hasn't arrived yet so I tried it in the DV336se with a 5998. I cannot believe what heard from the $260 Darkvoice. Those 2 tubes cost almost as much as the DV but the sound is phenomenal. It's shattering. Of course on the Elise, as you've just found out, it is one of the best combination of tubes with Mullard 6080.
  
 JV, I think you'll long be remembered for your tutorial on adapting FDD20 adapters for use in Elise. Excellent job. I wouldn't be enjoying FDD20 without you. Thank you very much. I am loving JWEP even long after we have no need for it. 
  
 Ha CitizenLin, Elise + 2031 + Mary Jane + John Wayne, now that's a potent combination. I love John Wayne. I remember him most in the Longest Day because I love war movies. He is so famous that even Emperor Hirohito ask to meet him on the latter's visit to US in 1975.
  
 Well I'll kick back now and just enjoy everyone's post for a change...and roll my tubes while enjoying music. Keep them coming !!!


----------



## nephilim

Ran the FDD20 together with stock power tubes for about 10h today and I feel the bass is improving - will check the 2031 combo again in a couple of days.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Ran the FDD20 together with stock power tubes for about 10h today and I feel the bass is improving - will check the 2031 combo again in a couple of days.




Hello Neph...

Yes! FDD20 will amazingly keep improving through about 200 hours. Big improvements to Bass come at around 50 hours.

So, let 'er burn!



.


----------



## Lord Raven

lord raven said:


> Thanks JV, I am up for the combo but I might want to buy two FDD20 tubes and run them together.
> 
> Is this the adapter for the FDD20? Link
> 
> ...


 
 Guys, please confirm if I am looking at the right adapters and what is 2031 combo? LOL


----------



## nephilim

2031 = FDD20 & ECC31
  
 Re adapter: that is the one I bought


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Guys, please confirm if I am looking at the right adapters and what is 2031 combo? LOL




Correct...

and what Neph said...

.


----------



## Lord Raven

I feel such a noob :/ I got it now, 2031 LOL sounds good to me  I still haven't received my adapters for ECC31. I think I should wait for ECC31 tubes before I jump on the 2031 combo  Tough choices...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, that is definitely a double WOW. Yes I agree with JV. You deserve this.
> 
> However I'm drooling like a St Bernard looking at your flush FDD20 on Elise. That is neat and professional. How do you do it? Come on, come one share the secret. I can throw away the eye patches with that setup. I'll have a Aston Martin DB5 because that's used several times in James Bond movies.


 
  
 Well UT...I'm afraid as JV gave just a _hint_ of what's involved, I fear you may well have to keep drooling 'til you dry, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...SORRY!!
  
 This is one job I would not recommend to anyone, unless very experienced in adapter making. The tight space involved when using a standard Octal base makes it an _extremely_ difficult task - and as JV also says, achieving good, solid solders on those brass lugs/'pins' that won't come adrift under pressure is _very_ tricky!!
 Hopefully, JV will find a neater solution than the original ebay adapter with his ceramic version...fingers crossed...And yes, he has indeed already done a great job of helping people enjoy the magic of the FDD20 - WELL DONE JV!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


nephilim said:


> Oh, this FDD20 adapter by H1 looks sweet )
> 
> Any pointers on how to make such a thing, especially which components are needed, would be very welcome!


 
 Hi neph. As stated above, I'm afraid I cannot recommend even trying to do this, unless _very_ experienced already. And I do not want to be the harbinger of doom by trying to give instructions...*sorry!*
  


lord raven said:


> Bro, that 2nd chance offer expired but you can get the GEC combo from me anytime before 10th November, the seller just launched a non-payment case against me LOL 222 is their price and shipping is 18 anywhere around the world, I can give your address. If you really want to help me
> 
> If I talk to the 421A seller, he might give me the same 150$ offer again, you can see the stuff here, link.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey LR.
  
 Have you had any luck with those GECs yet? If you can't go ahead with the purchase yourself, I will gladly take it over, and compare them with my NOS tubes. But I would need the 30-day return option from the vendor, of course. Just PM me...
  


tjw321 said:


> Ha - yes! The other recent posts about the ECC31/6080 combo appeared while I was typing my post so it's all independent validation of how good this combo is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey tjw321...looks like I could just be the one who takes you into the red, mon ami...first the Elise, then the ECC31s, and now the T1s....SORRY!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(But am real glad you're loving everything already - eases the wallet pain, non?!!)...CHEERS!!


----------



## Lord Raven

PM sent 
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Hey LR.
> 
> Have you had any luck with those GECs yet? If you can't go ahead with the purchase yourself, I will gladly take it over, and compare them with my NOS tubes. But I would need the 30-day return option from the vendor, of course. Just PM me...


 
  
 Hi guys,
  
 Is this the Mullard 6080 we're all after? Link to eBay is here. I might buy a pair of these as my power tubes. Also, please suggest if anyone is selling 5998 or knows if someone is selling one  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## MIKELAP

How do the Gec and Mullard 6080 compare to each other pretty close i am not looking for that last 10% would the Mullard be good enough for the price


----------



## UntilThen

Raven, 2031 means that the combo is ahead of it's time. It should have been released only in the year 2031.
  
 H1, that's ok. I'm actually quite happy with my neat cables now with the FDD20 because even a rookie like me can do it now. Besides eye patches are getting fashionable now. Just see this:-
  


 Mike, I feel the Mullard 6080 is worth the price. I don't have the GEC 6AS7G or GEC 6080.
 Of the 3 power tubes which I like best:-
 Tung Sol 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, I feel these 3 are a must in any tube collectors inventory. As much as I prefer the Chatham over the Mullard but only by just a little, the Mullard has more energy, speed and sparkle at the top and midrange. On my 1st listen I thought the bass was not as strong but I soon realise that's because the other FR range are sparkling and drew my attention. As I got more used to it, the bass shows me what it is capable of. Toms hit with a taut sound and kick drums well they literally kick you.
 Now press the button to buy the Mullard 6080 and find out for yourself.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is this the Mullard 6080 we're all after? Link to eBay is here. I might buy a pair of these as my power tubes. Also, please suggest if anyone is selling 5998 or knows if someone is selling one
> 
> Cheers!


 

 Yes that's the one Raven. A few pages back, I show many links of Mullard 6080 all from Langrex. Stay with the Mullard brand and you'll be fine. There's a Philips brand which I think might be the same but not having heard it I can't be sure.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey LR.
> 
> Have you had any luck with those GECs yet? If you can't go ahead with the purchase yourself, I will gladly take it over, and compare them with my NOS tubes. But I would need the 30-day return option from the vendor, of course. Just PM me...


 
 H1, you can be the temporary custodian of those gold nuggets. When I have a bit of a breather I can take that over from you but not before Christmas as I need my Christmas turkeys next month or I might be delegated to the dog's house!!!.


----------



## UntilThen

*C3G / Mullard 6080*
  
 How can anyone not love this pair. It's got the looks and I really 'wish you were here' now. The sound is unbelievable. I have no words. There are so many nice combos I have found for Elise I could easily just have toss a coin and be satisfied with any of them.
  
 Guys try this.....you will go into breakdance for sure.
  
 My tubes for this combo are burn in and the bass are really SOLID now. Let there be no doubt it's warm and lush too.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Hello Nephilim,
  
  
 You have Fivre 6N7G if I remember correctly. Would you shed some lights  on your finding/impression with Elise. Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Raven, 2031 means that the combo is ahead of it's time. It should have been released only in the year 2031.
> 
> H1, that's ok. I'm actually quite happy with my neat cables now with the FDD20 because even a rookie like me can do it now. Besides eye patches are getting fashionable now. Just see this:-


 
  
 Hi UT...glad things are looking neater for you...or is it that the drooling has simply moved over elsewhere?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (How can a darned eye patch look so _good_ lol?!!)...nice pic to herald me to my bed though...Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Hello Nephilim,
> 
> 
> You have Fivre 6N7G if I remember correctly. Would you shed some lights  on your finding/impression with Elise. Thanks


 

 CL why must you tempt me !!! Just look t this !!! I want it NOW !!!


----------



## SearchOfSub

untilthen said:


> Greater soundstaging. Imaging is spot on. Decay is spot on. Fast and rhythmic, Elise has poise and control. Mid range is sweet and engaging. Bass hits hard and goes deep. You hear and feel it at the same time. There's no mistaking the tube amp sound which is what I love.
> 
> I felt that HE560 mate very well with Elise. Switching over to HD650, I'm astonished just how good it sound as well. I have no doubt Elise will pair beautifully with any of the TOTL headphones out there, such as HD800, T1, LCDs, etc.
> 
> See ya later...it's lunch break.





Helo UT, can you tell me what tubes you are using with Elise. I want to get same good combo


----------



## UntilThen

searchofsub said:


> Helo UT, can you tell me what tubes you are using with Elise. I want to get same good combo


 

 Hi SoS, glad you're back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There are far too many good combo I've tried in Elise but if you really must know the best these are it in the order of preference:-
  

FDD20/ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G or TS 5998
FDD20/Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G or TS 5998 -  tie with above
2 Mazda 6N7G with Chatham or 5998
2 ECC31 with Chatham or 5998 - tie with 3.
2 C3G with 5998 or Chatham or Mullard 6080
  
 These are my definite top 5 at the moment. FYI the 1st 2 are SPECIAL but they need 12V AC Adapter to power the FDD20. It's worth it IMO.
 That said 3, 4 and 5 will indeed make you more than happy. Guaranteed.
  
 P/S if you can afford it, substitute GEC 6AS7G in as power tubes.
  
 I'm assuming you have ordered Elise? Good man !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm spinning with FDD20/ECC31 with Mullard 6080 again now just to make sure I'm not dreaming or hallucinating. Breathless.
 1st row seat presentation. I'm getting heartburn. Soundstage like Capitol Theatre. Midrange like Sarah Brightman as Christine and Michael Crawford as the Phantom in the Phantom of the Opera. Just wait for the chandelier to drop and hear the crash !!!


----------



## Lord Raven

I think this is their best price, a few days ago these tubes were available for 80 a pair from Cyprus and from Langrex as well for 45/single tube.
  
 I am so close to buying these, can you confirm if these have the copper rods, I might be color blind when it comes to inspecting tubes LOL
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Yes that's the one Raven. A few pages back, I show many links of Mullard 6080 all from Langrex. Stay with the Mullard brand and you'll be fine. There's a Philips brand which I think might be the same but not having heard it I can't be sure.


 
  
 Bro, you need these for Christmas LOL
  


untilthen said:


> H1, you can be the temporary custodian of those gold nuggets. When I have a bit of a breather I can take that over from you but not before Christmas as I need my Christmas turkeys next month or I might be delegated to the dog's house!!!.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is this the Mullard 6080 we're all after? Link to eBay is here. I might buy a pair of these as my power tubes. Also, please suggest if anyone is selling 5998 or knows if someone is selling one
> 
> Cheers!


 

 Raven yes this definitely have copper rods. As long as you don't mind :-
  
 SMALL CRACK TO CHROME BASE WHICH DOES NOT AFFECT FIT, FORM OR FUNCTION 

 TEST RESULTS ON TUBES

  

 That's the reason it's cheaper. I think it's safe to say they are fine. I can't see the cracks in the photos though.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> CL why must you tempt me !!! Just look t this !!! I want it NOW !!!


 
 HAHA, Thats the one I am looking to buy, I shot him email this morning for shipping fee. GOOD EYES.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> HAHA, Thats the one I am looking to buy, I shot him email this morning for shipping fee. GOOD EYES.


 

 Good luck CL. I won't bid with you. It's up to you now to share with us these gorgeous babies.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

UT
  
 I don't mind sharing, Especially most of you here. Really tight group. I just wish I can spend more time here without costing me money that I don't have. HAHAHA


----------



## UntilThen

I am interested in this though urgggghhh why do I keep looking. I believe Nep has this. See how beautiful they are.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I am interested in this though urgggghhh why do I keep looking.


 
 Where'd you find those?!


----------



## aqsw

I would trade a nos mazda for an adaptor setup for the fdd20 , with nice drilled holes. Ready to go to between my power supply and Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I would trade a nos mazda for an adaptor setup for the fdd20 , with nice drilled holes. Ready to go to between my power supply and Elise.


 
 OMG @JazzVinyl , do Aqsw and yourself a favour.


----------



## UntilThen

Here Suuup.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6C5G-6C5GT-FIVRE-ITALY-NOS-Tube-2pcs-/111812657347?hash=item1a088dc0c3:g:wwoAAOSwDNdVmX46
  
 Seems like he has a whole box.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Here Suuup.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6C5G-6C5GT-FIVRE-ITALY-NOS-Tube-2pcs-/111812657347?hash=item1a088dc0c3:g:wwoAAOSwDNdVmX46
> 
> Seems like he has a whole box.


 
 Oh, they're not 6N7G. I don't know why, but I have a weird love for the 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

^^ hahahaha you're right. I've been looking too much. Cross eyes now. Don't buy those. Pretty sure you can't use them.
  
 I don't know and I can't advise. Need Gibosi or Oskari to advise us.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> ^^ hahahaha you're right. I've been looking too much. Cross eyes now.


 
 Would those work in the Elise?


----------



## aqsw

I would have to go back, but another member said he would sell me one of his fdd20s when his batch came in. Any member remember this. Just wondering if they came in yet?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I would have to go back, but another member said he would sell me one of his fdd20s when his batch came in. Any member remember this. Just wondering if they came in yet?


 

 JV said he will sell you one Aqsw. If not see me, I have 5 spares.
  
 JV would be best. Talk to him. Besides he's expert in doing up those adapters.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven yes this definitely have copper rods. As long as you don't mind :-
> 
> SMALL CRACK TO CHROME BASE WHICH DOES NOT AFFECT FIT, FORM OR FUNCTION
> 
> ...




He has more than 10 tubes, will all have these cracks? Do they test good? Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> He has more than 10 tubes, will all have these cracks? Do they test good? Thanks


 

 I have no clue but I assume they all have small crack otherwise they won't go for so cheap. The crack must be very minor because I can't see it and certainly won't affect sound. NOS Mullard 6080 are generally safe bet. If it doesn't work, Langrex will exchange or refund. They are very good sellers. Many happy customers.
  
 Test results are on each tube so we can't see. As I said these are NOS and you shouldn't worry. Mikelap and Badas has very good experience with Langrex.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> JV said he will sell you one Aqsw. If not see me, I have 5 spares.
> 
> JV would be best. Talk to him. Besides he's expert in doing up those adapters.



sounds good. Looks like I'll have to become friends with JV.

Hey JV, Did you know that my daughter has a BA in Jazz performance (double bass) and my son in law has a mastrs in Jazz performance(piano). They also both have music education degrees from McGill in Montreal. Does that help Buddy?

They told me, if you can play Jazz, you can play anything. Its true. She plays Indie, country, anything! Just give her the sheet music the first time. She will play it and never need the sheets again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> CL why must you tempt me !!! Just look t this !!! I want it NOW !!!




This is another set labelled "6N7G" that sure look like "ECC31" 'eh?

I want 'em too!

Wow!

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> This is another set labelled "6N7G" that sure look like "ECC31" 'eh?
> 
> I want 'em too!
> 
> ...


 
 Thought the same. I'll be bidding high on those. Ssh!
 Need. More. ECC31..


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I have no clue but I assume they all have small crack otherwise they won't go for so cheap. The crack must be very minor because I can't see it and certainly won't affect sound. NOS Mullard 6080 are generally safe bet. If it doesn't work, Langrex will exchange or refund. They are very good sellers. Many happy customers.
> 
> Test results are on each tube so we can't see. As I said these are NOS and you shouldn't worry. Mikelap and Badas has very good experience with Langrex.




I just have a single 5998. 2 winged C. 

Can't find any copper rods Chatham, can't find 5998 in good price. Can't find copper rods ge or Hp 6AS7GA. 

Should i just buy these?


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> sounds good. Looks like I'll have to become friends with JV.
> 
> Hey JV, Did you know that my daughter has a BA in Jazz performance (double bass) and my son in law has a mastrs in Jazz performance(piano). They also both have music education degrees from McGill in Montreal. Does that help Buddy?




Haha!

Grease on the wheel 'eh LOL...

Not a problem to get an FDD20. They are not here yet, they are in NYC, probably see them last part of next week.

Congrats to the accomplished kids! I love it!

.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Thought the same. I'll be bidding high on those. Ssh!


 

 LOL !!! You guys are on a bidding war with each other. CL is bidding too. Don't fight !!!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> LOL !!! You guys are on a bidding war with each other. CL is bidding too. Don't fight !!!!


 
 I will fight tooth and nail. Bring it!
 Edit:


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I just have a single 5998. 2 winged C.
> 
> Can't find any copper rods Chatham, can't find 5998 in good price. Can't find copper rods ge or Hp 6AS7GA.
> 
> Should i just buy these?


 

 Yes Raven. Go for it. You have my blessings. Get a pair NOW.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> sounds good. Looks like I'll have to become friends with JV.
> 
> Hey JV, Did you know that my daughter has a BA in Jazz performance (double bass) and my son in law has a mastrs in Jazz performance(piano). They also both have music education degrees from McGill in Montreal. Does that help Buddy?
> 
> They told me, if you can play Jazz, you can play anything. Its true. She plays Indie, country, anything! Just give her the sheet music the first time. She will play it and never need the sheets again.


 

 aqsw, I recommended JV so do I get a commission too? haha


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Haha!
> 
> Grease on the wheel 'eh LOL...
> 
> ...





Thank you very much. Would you be willing to trade one of your best made adaptors for an nos mazda?


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Thank you very much. Would you be willing to trade one of your best made adaptors for an nos mazda?




Yep! Done!

.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> aqsw, I recommended JV so do I get a commission too? haha


Ill send you a pair of photons


----------



## UntilThen

You're dumb LOL. I'll send you a pair of 1635 !!!


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Yep! Done!
> 
> .



Sounds great. I have not received the mazdas yet. If you want to make up the adaptor and when you get the fdd2os in we can get back. Mazdas are delivery between 15 to 23 November.

Thanks


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> You're dumb LOL. I'll send you a pair of 1635 !!!



Wow, Thanks

Do you want my shipping address?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6C5G-6C5GT-FIVRE-ITALY-NOS-Tube-2pcs-/111812657347?hash=item1a088dc0c3:g:wwoAAOSwDNdVmX46


 
  
 Those are single triodes. You'd need *two* to replace *one* 6SN7GT.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Those are single triodes. You'd need *two* to replace *one* 6SN7GT.


 

 Perfect so this will work? Not sure if it will fit in Elise with 2 of those LOL.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/201359298646?hash=item2ee1f31056:g:kckAAOSwN81WEJ7U


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Perfect so this will work?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/201359298646?hash=item2ee1f31056:g:kckAAOSwN81WEJ7U


 
 Not sure there's enough space on the Elise.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Not sure there's enough space on the Elise.


 
  
 That might be a problem.
  
 Otherwise, it should work, I suppose.


----------



## UntilThen

Most unusual you'll need 4 of those tubes as drivers. Nah won't fit. Would be extreme tube rolling though.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Most unusual you'll need 4 of those tubes as drivers. Nah won't fit. Would be extreme tube rolling though.


 
 I suppose you could make it work with some DIY.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I suppose you could make it work with some DIY.


 
 Get a stack of driver socket savers... We have too many options already. I won't be the one to push Elise on this.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Get a stack of driver socket savers... We have too many options already. I won't be the one to push Elise on this.


 
 LOL that would be hilarious. Make a tower!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Perfect so this will work? Not sure if it will fit in Elise with 2 of those LOL.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/201359298646?hash=item2ee1f31056:g:kckAAOSwN81WEJ7U




The top is made to rotate, you can position it, to work. It's 4 big tubes to replace 2. Looks like they draw 0.3 amps current so current draw would not be a problem....

Would it be worth it from a sound quality gain, is the question.

I have seen g's amp using this adapter....

.


----------



## UntilThen

We'll leave this to Mordy. It's his job to find a 11/10.


----------



## JazzVinyl

^^^^^^^ Might need TWO JWEP's...


----------



## Suuup

I've had the Mullard 6080's running for about 4 hours now. I'll compare these to my old power tubes, 1x JAN 6080 + 1x 6H13C. Here are some first impressions:
  
 The biggest difference is in the lower mids. My old powers had a very heavy focus here, which made the sound very full. The Mullards are more transparent. They sound a bit more airy, with a much better ambience. They are VERY dynamic in comparison. They have a good definition / are very detailed, especielly in the highs. Generally, the highs / treble is very delicate, with very good low level detail. The Mullards are clearer than the old powers. They are not congested at all, whereas the old setup could sound a little tid bit congested at times. The Mullards also have a very good rythm and speed. The treble also sounds a bit harsher on the old powers. 
  
  
 Anyway, just some preliminary notes about the Mullards. I'll give them some more burn time and see what changes. I might be tainted after running the old powers for so long, which have such a strong focus on the lower mids, but I miss it a little bit.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've had the Mullard 6080's running for about 4 hours now. I'll compare these to my old power tubes, 1x JAN 6080 + 1x 6H13C. Here are some first impressions:
> 
> The biggest difference is in the lower mids. My old powers had a very heavy focus here, which made the sound very full. The Mullards are more transparent. They sound a bit more airy, with a much better ambience. They are VERY dynamic in comparison. They have a good definition / are very detailed, especielly in the highs. Generally, the highs / treble is very delicate, with very good low level detail. The Mullards are clearer than the old powers. They are not congested at all, whereas the old setup could sound a little tid bit congested at times. The Mullards also have a very good rythm and speed. The treble also sounds a bit harsher on the old powers.
> 
> ...


 

 Spot on Suuup. Our ears are tuned the same. See my impressions to Mike.
  
 That is a good detailed writeup. Well done Suuup. You have much to contribute.
  
 I wrote that in comparison with the Chatham 6AS7G mainly. You're absolutely spot on with the Mullard's attack. It's the more energetic of the 2. The reasons I prefer Chatham is because it sounded more soothing, calming and natural to me. However it's a preference. Like I say I love both and would easily own 2 pairs of each.
  
_Of the 3 power tubes which I like best:-_
_Tung Sol 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, I feel these 3 are a must in any tube collectors inventory. As much as I prefer the Chatham over the Mullard but only by just a little, *the Mullard has more energy, speed and sparkle at the top and midrange. *On my 1st listen I thought the bass was not as strong but I soon realise that's because the other FR range are sparkling and drew my attention. As I got more used to it, the bass shows me what it is capable of. Toms hit with a taut sound and kick drums well they literally kick you._


----------



## Suuup

Something that just struck me, the ATTACK on these are phenomenal. I'd actually written it down in my notes, but somehow forgot about when I wrote the impression. I just put on The Bug by Dire Straits, and I was just about to duck under my table. The first note hit my with a sudden speed that I did not see coming.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Something that just struck me, the ATTACK on these are phenomenal. I'd actually written it down in my notes, but somehow forgot about when I wrote the impression. I just put on The Bug by Dire Straits, and I was just about to duck under my table. The first note hit my with a sudden speed that I did not see coming.




You should hear a much much richer, distinct, and clarified midrange with the Mullard 6080's. Run them for a couple of weeks, then change back to your old powers...you will then see how spoiled you are with the Mullards...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> You should hear a much much richer, distinct, and clarified midrange with the Mullard 6080's. Run them for a couple of weeks, then change back to your old powers...you will then see how spoiled you are with the Mullards...


 
 I don't doubt it. It feels like they're bustling with potential.


----------



## UntilThen

However if you compare the Mullard with the 5998, the energy level is lifted even more by the 5998. It's taken to a whole new level. 5998 is energetic, dynamic and impactful. Yet despite all that energy it's still a very relax listen especially with vocals. That is the special part of 5998 for me. It's not just the increase in gain or a strong bass. It's very satisfying across the whole FR.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Back to 2x FDD20's after running the Ken Rad VT231's for a couple of hours.

The FDD20's kill the average 6SN7...so much more air/space/details and explosion of sound stage that it's not a race.

Someone give 2x FDD20 the checkered flag!

They are WAY more fun to listen to.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Yes that's the one Raven. A few pages back, I show many links of Mullard 6080 all from Langrex. Stay with the Mullard brand and you'll be fine. There's a Philips brand which I think might be the same but not having heard it I can't be sure.


 
  
 "Philips" is likely to be the same, "Philips ECG" is not.


----------



## UntilThen

I have swap 2031 with 5998, Chatham and Mullard many times and I have to say they all thrill me equally. Depending on my mood, I will never give up these 3 power tubes. That is until the GEC 6AS7G and WE 421A arrives....we shall see.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> "Philips" is likely to be the same, "Philips ECG" is not.


 

 Oh. What's ECG Oskari?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Oh. What's ECG Oskari?


 
  
 Something that used to be called Sylvania.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> However if you compare the Mullard with the 5998, the energy level is lifted even more by the 5998. It's taken to a whole new level. 5998 is energetic, dynamic and impactful. Yet despite all that energy it's still a very relax listen especially with vocals. That is the special part of 5998 for me. It's not just the increase in gain or a strong bass. It's very satisfying across the whole FR.




Poor Suuup's wallet 

Suuup has Beyer phones...phones makes the difference in which powers that are preferred.

With my Beyers, the 5998's make 6SN7's sound way better but the shouldered drivers tend to dig the Mullards a bit more. 

My Senn 580's definitely definitely always like the 5998's best, with all drivers.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## UntilThen

You've a point on both counts JV. Certainly poor Suuup's wallet. 
  
 Especially seeing he's going for the gorgeous Fivre 6N7G.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You've a point on both counts JV. Certainly poor Suuup's wallet.
> 
> Especially seeing he's going for the gorgeous Fivre 6N7G.


 
 Not just going, getting! I must own these, no matter the cost.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Not just going, getting! I must own these, no matter the cost.




They are beautiful, Suuup!!! 

Poor Suuup's wallet. LOL...


----------



## UntilThen

I've just gone from Mullard to Chatham on the 2031 pairing and I prefer the Chatham immediately. Again my gear, my ears. It's a personal preference. Just more airy, spacious and soothing.
 Whatever it is, 2031 as I said with the power tubes mentioned is a sonic rollercoaster except this rollercoaster doesn't go down. It keeps going up.
  
 Listening to Enigma and it's really haunting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This 2031 drivers is one instance I feel the drivers are more dominant than the power tubes. It's clearly influencing the sound more.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Suuup, 
  
 Are you trying to out bid me? Why would you beat the old man while he is down? hahah, I thought we are tight little family? I will share with you Suuup if I win. Now I blame UT... j/k.


----------



## UntilThen

We should share in the cost of the Fivre 6N7G and then let it rotate around the world. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm really impressed it has brown base and the smoke glass like ECC31.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I've just gone from Mullard to Chatham on the 2031 pairing and I prefer the Chatham immediately. Again my gear, my ears. It's a personal preference. Just more airy, spacious and soothing.
> Whatever it is, 2031 as I said with the power tubes mentioned is a sonic rollercoaster except this rollercoaster doesn't go down. It keeps going up.




Nice!

I put 71 hours and 20 mins on the 2x FDD20/Mullard 6080. Wasn't feeling all that impressed with 2xFDD20.

Let them rest all day today as I had other things to do besides listen to headphones (I know, I know)..

When I did sit back down this evening to listen again, put in 5998 and VT231 Ken Rads. Listened for a couple of hours and was in the groove...

Madness struck..went to 2x FDD20/5998...

Wow...you go from a great sounding amp..

To a PROFESSIONAL sounding amp, one that manages to remix the music such that there is more clarity. Not the sound of the instruments THE INSTRUMENTS.

I am absolutely lost in a tremendously enjoyable sound filed that is magnitudes batter what a quality 6SN7 can give you.

2x FDD20 is serious business...what? Patricia Barbara's here.....!!! Hello Pat!!!



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> We should share in the cost of the Fivre 6N7G and then let it rotate around the world.
> 
> I'm really impressed it has brown base and the smoke glass like ECC31.




I like this idea!

Why should Suuup have all the fun???


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> We should share in the cost of the Fivre 6N7G and then let it rotate around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I look at them closely this morning. I don't think they are ECC31, I contacted the seller this morning. They do look beautiful. I don't mind sharing with you all. Especially Suuup, he let me have one of his ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

No worries CL. I don't need to be in on it. Whoever gets it can share with us how she sounds. I have too much of a good thing already..like Mike says...can kill !!!


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> This is another set labelled "6N7G" that sure look like "ECC31" 'eh?


 
 Notice that the base is much taller on the Fivres than the ECC31. Also notice the top mica and heat radiators. They are slightly different than any ECC31 I have ever seen. So I doubt that these are Mullards. But still, someone needs to buy them so we can find out how they sound.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Notice that the base is much taller on the Fivres than the ECC31. Also notice the top mica and heat radiators. They are slightly different than any ECC31 I have ever seen. So I doubt that these are Mullards. But still, someone needs to buy them so we can find out how they sound.


 

 Yes this is the top..not entirely diff the top...a bit... from the ECC31
  
 No it is different.


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> Suuup,
> 
> Are you trying to out bid me? Why would you beat the old man while he is down? hahah, I thought we are tight little family? I will share with you Suuup if I win. Now I blame UT... j/k.



It wasn't because either you or UT mentioned them. For the past 3 weeks I have been searching for 6N7G and ECC31 multiple times a day, to find some that I want. I'm really sorry if you get caught in the middle of it, but I really want those tubes. They'll be perfect with me Royal Airforce '6N7G', which is actually ECC31.

I also wouldn't mind sharing the at all, so long as they would eventually find their way back to Denmark. 

Is there any way to set a limit on how much you want to bid on Ebay, and then just have it outbid by 1 every time someone else bids?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> It wasn't because either you or UT mentioned them. For the past 3 weeks I have been searching for 6N7G and ECC31 multiple times a day, to find some that I want. I'm really sorry if you get caught in the middle of it, but I really want those tubes. They'll be perfect with me Royal Airforce '6N7G', which is actually ECC31.
> 
> I also wouldn't mind sharing the at all, so long as they would eventually find their way back to Denmark.
> 
> Is there any way to set a limit on how much you want to bid on Ebay, and then just have it outbid by 1 every time someone else bids?


 
 LOL I'm sure glad I'm not bidding against you. Of course you can set a max bid and raise it as you go along. So for instance you might want to dump in $500 now but PLEASE DON'T hahahaha.
  
 If you send it to Australia first, I'm sure it will get back to Denmark in 2017.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> LOL I'm sure glad I'm not bidding against you. Of course you can set a max bid and raise it as you go along. So for instance you might want to dump in $500 now but PLEASE DON'T hahahaha.
> 
> If you send it to Australia first, I'm sure it will get back to Denmark in 2017.



300 was actually the exact number I wanted to set as limit.. Maybe I have to go higher?


----------



## mordy

Hi,

About the Fivre 6C5G triodes - they are 1/2 of a dual triode, which is what we are using in the Elise. 

The pictured adapters for two tubes would make it work, but as said, you would need 4 tubes.

This suggestion came up in the past. I took the measurements from the web site of the two dual tube adapters and cut out two pieces of cardboard to size. The adapters can be rotated 45 degrees.

Placing the cardboard pieces on the Elise sockets seemed to indicate that there is enough room for them with four tubes, even ST (shoulder type - Coke bottle) tubes. It seemed to me that they could fit slanted parallel to each other. / _ / / _ /

Caution: This is only a guess - it has to be tried in practice to see if it works. Unfortunately, the price of the two adapters makes this somewhat costly, even if the tubes aren't expensive.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> It wasn't because either you or UT mentioned them. For the past 3 weeks I have been searching for 6N7G and ECC31 multiple times a day, to find some that I want. I'm really sorry if you get caught in the middle of it, but I really want those tubes. They'll be perfect with me Royal Airforce '6N7G', which is actually ECC31.
> 
> I also wouldn't mind sharing the at all, so long as they would eventually find their way back to Denmark.
> 
> Is there any way to set a limit on how much you want to bid on Ebay, and then just have it outbid by 1 every time someone else bids?


 
 Well,This was listed this morning. I was very first one to look at them. I contacted the seller right away. If you want them go ahead , I know I can never out bid anybody here.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> 300 was actually the exact number I wanted to set as limit.. Maybe I have to go higher?



You can always revise your max bid as you go along.
I really can't advise how much max to put on this seeing none of us know it's quality.
If it's a pair of ECC32 I might probably bid aggressively. Just my thoughts.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm sorry CL I shouldn't have published this. All I would say is we really don't know how this tube will turn out to be. It would be unwise to spend a lot for unknown.
In any case, you can be assured that there are heaps more exotic stuff that will hit eBay.
I'm really sorry for our wallets.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> I'm sorry CL I shouldn't have published this. All I would say is we really don't know how this tube will turn out to be. It would be unwise to spend a lot for unknown.
> In any case, you can be assured that there are heaps more exotic stuff that will hit eBay.
> I'm really sorry for our wallets.


 
 No problem UT, these thing you can not control. I am just hoping to get a good deal. Suck to live on fix income. Suck to be old period.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

No worry guys. Who ever get them, I am ok with it. GOOD NITE.


----------



## UntilThen

Guys I just want to say don't get overly excited over this. There could be a lot of people who are willing to dump heaps to get this too. So caution is what I would advise.
  
 In any case if you have ECC31, I don't see why we need to get excited anymore. I firmly believe ECC31 comes so close to be my ideal driver right now. I don't need to spend more or search for more. Not to mention FDD20 !!!  I have 6 !!! Now that's something to be excited about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 After the sound that I experience with 2031, if I'm still unhappy I should sell Elise and go back to a pair of stereo speakers.


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> No worry guys. Who ever get them, I am ok with it. GOOD NITE.



Hey CL, 
After lengthy consideration, I have decided that I will not bid on the Fivre, so have at it, hope you win! I'll try to find some somewhere else. Besides, I think I've found a nice Tungsol 6N7G to match the one I already have. 

I might even get lucky and find a Fivre in the future.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup you really make me proud of you there. Your spirit is to be highly commended. In the spirit of friendship I like to defer to someone else even if it's a top tube. For me, at the end of the day, I rather win friends than win tubes. That's what I'm here for. I really think we have a very tight group here. My wife must be wondering why I'm spending so much time online. I told her I found new friends from all over the world. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ok getting very philosophical here


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> About the Fivre 6C5G triodes - they are 1/2 of a dual triode, which is what we are using in the Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 Ok Mordy you got my interest. This will be my 2016 project. I'm sure curious how this will turn out. I might hit 12/10. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 $21.07 for each adapter. It's still manageable. Tubes are bidding from $50 a pair.
  
 I just think this will have a lot of glow !!!
  
 Tube looks unusual and beautiful IMO


----------



## UntilThen

Nep how's your Fivre 6N7G. Have you tried it yet?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ok Mordy you got my interest. This will be my 2016 project. I'm sure curious how this will turn out. I might hit 12/10. :wink_face:
> 
> $21.07 for each adapter. It's still manageable. Tubes are bidding from $50 a pair.
> 
> ...



You're going for it? Looking forward to this!


----------



## UntilThen

Not right now Suuup.  I still have a lot of tubes to try.
  
 After the 80 hours mark, Elise started sounded even better. Am I just repeating what everyone says? Well it's true. I put on the RCA 6N7GT with Chatham 6AS7G again in the last hour. What I found unremarkable a few days ago with those tubes, I now find them EXTREMELY enjoyable. So what changed? Well 21 hours have gone by of additional burning on Elise that's what.
  
 I'm certain now I have a preference of ECC31, 6N7, 6A6 family of tubes over 6SN7 which is ironic !!! We told Feliks Audio...make an amp that uses 6AS7 and 6SN7 ....but we end up loving tubes that comes with a 'wall of sound', that brings you 'closer to the music', the gives you a 'wider soundstage', that has a greater 'bass impact and extension', that 'cooks your meals', that 'washes your dishes'.
  
 Well you get the idea?
  
 So now I'm thinking. We have almost obtain audio nirvana. What next for me? A revealing headphone of course. The challenge is to make HD800s sounds musical and yet ultra revealing. Don't you just love head-fi. It gets better and better and you get poorer and poorer.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Nep how's your Fivre 6N7G. Have you tried it yet?


 

 I listened to it for just 2 nights and first impression was really good with very tight, not too fat but sufficient bass. Felt faster and more direct than the ECC31. The Mazda brought back more weight. However, both Fivre and Mazda started to hum after a couple of hours - initially they were dead silent. Need to run them more.
  
 Unfortunately this will take some time as #11 sits in its box and waits to travel back to Poland for a quick check - and potentially some cosmetic improvements.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Unfortunately this will take some time as #11 sits in its box and waits to travel back to Poland for a quick check - and *potentially some cosmetic improvements. *


 
 Nep !!!  Do tell what cosmetic surgery are you putting Elise through. I want to know NOW. Let me guess, new face plate? New volume knob? New brass feet?
  
 Henryk will make it hum free for you. Mine is TOTALLY HUM FREE WITH ALL TUBES'


----------



## nephilim

Nothing spectacular - volume knob with white dot and a red power LED - hopefully  But focus is of course on curing the hum.


----------



## UntilThen

Eh... my volume knob has a white dot already but very faint. I like to make it more white ......
  
 I like interchangable LED lights that can be switch at will. !!!
  
 Well I like what I hear of your impression of the Fivre 6N7G. It's no surprise they are not fat...Ferrari are slim and fast.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Eh... my volume knob has a white dot already but very faint. I like to make it more white ......
> 
> I like interchangable LED lights that can be switch at will. !!!


 
 This is actually the only complaint I have with the design. The white dot is so small that when listening at night / when there's not a lot of light, it's really damn hard to find the white dot. They dented it ever so sligtly, but it's really hard to feel where the knob is. If I run a nail over the white dot, I will sometimes be able to feel it, but it's not often.
  
 Ah well, it's a very minor thing, but nevertheless ONE thing that could actually be improved, not that there is a lot of those.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, are these adapters any good? JV mentioned their pins break easily :/ Are there any better out there? Link
  
 I am thinking to hop on to the 2031 combo, but not sure where to get the FDD20 tubes or the 12V adapter of the specific rating. Enlighten me here please.
  
 I am only doing it mainly cause, several have reported that this combo is better than a pair of 31's. Also, I will buy a pair of FDD20 and their adapters. Not single  JV has some new findings that might keep me up all night..


----------



## nephilim

LR, the adapters are OK - they could be made (and look) better but at least they are working. Yes, the pins can be removed easily (if intended) but if handled properly they should cause no issue.
  
 I guess any 12V laptop power supply works fine, especially if it's grounded (same 3 pin connector as your Elise has). I bought this one: http://r.ebay.com/ApgDXD


----------



## UntilThen

Raven, I can sell you 2 FDD20 for the same price I bought. No commission here. 
  
 22 Euro each from the German seller online. If you do find cheaper by all means go for it.
  
 This is where I bought from:-
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221925529432?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Raven, I can sell you 2 FDD20 for the same price I bought. No commission here.
> 
> 22 Euro each from the German seller online. If you do find cheaper by all means go for it.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you ever sleep UT? I see you posting at all hours of the day.


----------



## Lord Raven

nephilim said:


> LR, the adapters are OK - they could be made (and look) better but at least they are working. Yes, the pins can be removed easily (if intended) but if handled properly they should cause no issue.
> 
> I guess any 12V laptop power supply works fine, especially if it's grounded (same 3 pin connector as your Elise has). I bought this one: http://r.ebay.com/ApgDXD


 
 Thanks nephilim. That means it's a go ahead?  I hate those huge adapters and their white color, I bet they are cheap plastic. What else can we do? I was thinking to make a rough converter on plexi glass and a socket saver for myself but still not sure how to connect pins, that might look better.
  
 Thanks, I am thinking to buy a high end LPS for my DAC and use the same 12V output for the heaters, what do you say?  Good idea? It'll look sexy and DAC would get some clean power.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven, I can sell you 2 FDD20 for the same price I bought. No commission here.
> 
> 22 Euro each from the German seller online. If you do find cheaper by all means go for it.
> 
> ...


 
 LOL You're my bro and soon to be homie, I have noted your offer but who will ship them from the far end of the world?  Look at my headphones, they're stuck there for the time I reach there. 
  
 eBay might save me some shipping. I will let you know soon. Things are shaping for the 2031, I might buy an LPS, stack my stuff on the table for sexy looking rig. What do you say?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Do you ever sleep UT? I see you posting at all hours of the day.


 

 I'm Asia Pacific Sales Rep for Elise....I don't sleep


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Do you ever sleep UT? I see you posting at all hours of the day.


 
 Mike has the same complaint from me over the PM LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Thanks nephilim. That means it's a go ahead?  I hate those huge adapters and their white color, I bet they are cheap plastic. What else can we do? I was thinking to make a rough converter on plexi glass and a socket saver for myself but still not sure how to connect pins, that might look better.
> 
> Thanks, I am thinking to buy a high end LPS for my DAC and use the same 12V output for the heaters, what do you say?  Good idea? It'll look sexy and DAC would get some clean power.


 
 The adapter is fine. It is cheap plastic, though not the kind to break. The pins seem sturdy, but doesn't take a lot of force to remove them. This just makes it easier to tear them of for the external heating mod.


----------



## UntilThen

Raven you should just move to Australia now. It's hum free here. We're eco friendly.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven you should just move to Australia now. It's hum free here. We're eco friendly.


 
 I like it already, I hope to buy more tubes before I move to the far end of the world. Hitting Sydney in January for a short vacation LOL Elise will not join me on this tour but soon, God willing.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I like it already, I hope to buy more tubes before I move to the far end of the world. Hitting Sydney in January for a short vacation LOL Elise will not join me on this tour but soon, God willing.


 

 Alright get in touch with me when you come in January. However you better bring a big box of quality tubes for me.
 You can listen to my setup.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


>


 
 I am thinking to buy :/ I just got a call from post office, something from China arrived LOL More cheap adapters...


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Alright get in touch with me when you come in January. However you better bring a big box of quality tubes for me.


 
 LOL tubes or donuts? I got nothing, 4 Russian tubes haha PM you my details when I am there, maybe we get a chance to meet.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL tubes or donuts? I got nothing, 4 Russian tubes haha PM you my details when I am there, maybe we get a chance to meet.


 
 Now I want to go to Sydney, LOL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We should all go.


----------



## Lord Raven

Forgot to ask, what will be the current requirement for two heaters on a pair of FDD20 tubes combined? I am seriously considering a clean sexy looking LPS now.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Forgot to ask, what will be the current requirement for two heaters on a pair of FDD20 tubes combined? I am seriously considering a clean sexy looking LPS now.


 
 0.3 if I remember right, let me check. 
 Edit: It's 0.35


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Now I want to go to Sydney, LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're all welcome here but you must bring me a pair of GEC 6AS7G each then I'll take you on a conducted tour.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You're all welcome here but you must bring me a pair of GEC 6AS7G each then I'll take you on a conducted tour.


 
 Will a pair of ECC32's do the job? If I get them.. (which I don't think I will, but you never know).


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Now I want to go to Sydney, LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think you don't have any fellow head-fiers in Denmark just like I have no one in Saudi Arabia haha.. You're welcome to join us!


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> 0.3 if I remember right, let me check.
> Edit: It's 0.35


 
 Is that for 2 heaters? I am thinking of powering a pair, not single tube.
  
 In any case, that is nothing for Jay's LPS  It can probably power 10 tubes LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I think you don't have any fellow head-fiers in Denmark just like I have no one in Saudi Arabia haha.. You're welcome to join us!


 
 Actually, there is a few.. It's not a lot though. Hoved-fi.dk (it's like a Danish Head-Fi) just held a meetup in Copenhagen, and ~15-20 showed up.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Is that for 2 heaters? I am thinking of powering a pair, not single tube.
> 
> In any case, that is nothing for Jay's LPS  It can probably power 10 tubes LOL


 
 Nono, that is pr tube. 0.7 total? http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_fdd20.html


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Will a pair of ECC32's do the job? If I get them.. (which I don't think I will, but you never know).


 
 Where are you getting them from? ECC31 has become Gold for us LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You're all welcome here but you must bring me a pair of GEC 6AS7G each then I'll take you on a conducted tour.


 
 I got a pair of GEC LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I got a pair of GEC LOL


 
 Raven, how can you be buying all those expensive tubes, but have to sell your precious headphones?


----------



## Lord Raven

Looks like I am the only one from an SQ dead country LOL
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> Actually, there is a few.. It's not a lot though. Hoved-fi.dk (it's like a Danish Head-Fi) just held a meetup in Copenhagen, and ~15-20 showed up.


 
  
 Great info, thanks. The LPS can handle upto 1.5A easily.


suuup said:


> Nono, that is pr tube. 0.7 total? http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_fdd20.html


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Raven, how can you be buying all those expensive tubes, but have to sell your precious headphones?


 
 I bought a brand new pair of HD600 from Australia, that was sent to a friend for shipping but it got stuck their cause my friend changed plans to see me.
  
 I sold my previous headphones mainly cause a) I hated them for their shape, they hurt my outer ears and b) I used them for like 2 years and sold them for almost the same price LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I bought a brand new pair of HD600 from Australia, that was sent to a friend for shipping but it got stuck their cause my friend changed plans to see me.
> 
> I sold my previous headphones mainly cause a) I hated them for their shape, they hurt my outer ears and b) I used them for like 2 years and sold them for almost the same price LOL


 
 Can't he just ship them?


----------



## UntilThen

He's using Elise to power his car audio. Tube amp for car hey !!!


----------



## Suuup

Can someone shed some light for me? 
 I have a desk lamp connected to the same extension cord as the Elise. Whenever I turn the lamp on or off, I hear a 'plop' in the Elise. Why is this?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Can't he just ship them?


 
 He can but I don't trust him, he shipped my DAC via one of his friends and guess what? His friend removed the DAC box and folded the DAC in his luggage and then handed over to me without original box. I was not sure about all his plans, and he totally forgot to give my HPs to his same friend. For that I am glad cause he would have done the same, remove box and pack.
  
 I am going to either get them myself in January or, rely on his doubtful plans of visiting me. He is always unsure, I hate him but he is my school friend LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> He's using Elise to power his car audio. Tube amp for car hey !!!


 
 LOL
  
 Car audio is life  Trust me, it is the most complex audio system to build and tune. I spent my life building one, and yes I thought of tubes but that can only be done while I park the car for good and listen to tubes in my car haha


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Can someone shed some light for me?
> I have a desk lamp connected to the same extension cord as the Elise. Whenever I turn the lamp on or off, I hear a 'plop' in the Elise. Why is this?


 
 EMF, this is why I have a dedicated socket for my rig. I switch off all the things like exhaust fans, washing machine and oven before I listen to Elise  I am glad it is silent!!!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> EMF, this is why I have a dedicated socket for my rig. I switch off all the things like exhaust fans, washing machine and oven before I listen to Elise  I am glad it is silent!!!


 
 I have my computer, 2 computer screens and a desk lamp running out of the same socket... It's still dead silent, as long as I don't turn anything on or off while it's playing.


----------



## UntilThen

Get an external power supply Suuup. Or a big battery power supply.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Get an external power supply Suuup. Or a big battery power supply.


 
 Acutally, I had a big fat UPS. It could supply 2700 W. I don't have it any more though ..


----------



## UntilThen

On a different topic of cooling for Elise I'm thinking of one of these:-
  
 Good idea?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> On a different topic of cooling for Elise I'm thinking of one of these:-
> 
> Good idea?


 
 Does the Elise need cooling? I must admit, mine is hot enough that I can't touch her for more than ~5-10 seconds at a time. I am really bad with hot things, however, so I'm not sure if anyone should read too much into that. 
  
 My Elise is currently 50 C next to the drivers, and 60 C in the center of all four tubes. 50 C on top of the transformer.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a big fan blowing in Elise direction and she feels cool. I like to keep Elise cool...Elise cool means I'm cool too. Helps with changing tubes too. They cool down faster on power off.


----------



## UntilThen

Everything is sounding good now even the Fotons. What is happening?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Spot on Suuup. Our ears are tuned the same. See my impressions to Mike.
> 
> That is a good detailed writeup. Well done Suuup. You have much to contribute.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> However if you compare the Mullard with the 5998, the energy level is lifted even more by the 5998. It's taken to a whole new level. 5998 is energetic, dynamic and impactful. Yet despite all that energy it's still a very relax listen especially with vocals. That is the special part of 5998 for me. It's not just the increase in gain or a strong bass. It's very satisfying across the whole FR.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> I have swap 2031 with 5998, Chatham and Mullard many times and I have to say they all thrill me equally. Depending on my mood, I will never give up these 3 power tubes. That is until the GEC 6AS7G and WE 421A arrives....we shall see.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> I've just gone from Mullard to Chatham on the 2031 pairing and I prefer the Chatham immediately. Again my gear, my ears. It's a personal preference. Just more airy, spacious and soothing.
> Whatever it is, 2031 as I said with the power tubes mentioned is a sonic rollercoaster except this rollercoaster doesn't go down. It keeps going up.
> 
> Listening to Enigma and it's really haunting.
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...*By jove I think I've got it!!!*
  
 Given all you've said here - especially that last statement - plus others' comments on the 5998 particularly, I think it's now quite clear what is so special about the GEC/Osram family of 6AS7Gs : they do in a single power tube what the ECC31/FDD20 tubes do in their own way in tandem...ie. they combine the finest qualities of the Chatham with those of the 5998, but in an extra special, slightly modified way, that defies normal 'logical'/scientific explanation. Another case of the 'whole being greater than the sum of the individual parts'.
  
 But then again, I haven't heard the 5998 and could be totally wrong. But the more I read about these particular tubes, the more I am convinced this _may_ just be getting near the truth..._perhaps?..._just a thought, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

I must have drank a lot of Coca Cola to write all that LOL.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I must have drank a lot of Coca Cola to write all that LOL.


 
 Don't tell me you drink Coca Cola too..


----------



## UntilThen

I'd die to hear a pair of GEC 6AS7G. I think that's my missing link. 2031 with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998 seems near perfect to me. The GEC might just perfect it. I'm quite sure of that.
 Sigh the sum total of those tubes are getting staggeringly close to the price of Elise but I think it's totally worth it.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I'd die to hear a pair of GEC 6AS7G. I think that's my missing link. 2031 with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998 seems near perfect to me. The GEC might just perfect it. I'm quite sure of that.
> Sigh the sum total of those tubes are getting staggeringly close to the price of Elise but I think it's totally worth it.


 
 Let me know in a PM if you want the GEC LOL


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Let me know in a PM if you want the GEC LOL


 
  
 Hey LR...thought we were trying to sort it with the ebayer, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....


----------



## Suuup

I've been listening to Renee Olstead for 3 hours now. Hear voice sounds wonderful on my Mullard 6080's!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I've been listening to Renee Olstead for 3 hours now. Hear voice sounds wonderful on my Mullard 6080's!


 
  
 Hi Suuup...don't all these tubes in the Elise just do magical things for voices...not to mention _everything _else, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 
  
 ps.  Best get back to parcelling!


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Suuup...don't all these tubes in the Elise just do magical things for voices...not to mention _everything _else, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha, yes they do! However, they don't do very good for the wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm eyeing a pair of 5998 now. What is the preferred manufacturer?
  
 No haste with the parcels! Although I do look forward to them coming and seeing their new home, the Elise!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Haha, yes they do! However, they don't do very good for the wallet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You've tempted me away from the parcels, lol!...must switch this thing off - (this addiction is worse than my caffeine one!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 I do believe they were all made by Tung Sol, in fact...just make sure those plates are 'dimpled'. Some would also say the exalted WE421A is simply a specially selected 5998...but don't quote me on that!!
  
 CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and commiserations to your poor wallet, lol!...
  
 Back to parcels....


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> > He has more than 10 tubes, will all have these cracks? Do they test good? Thanks
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Eh... my volume knob has a white dot already but very faint. I like to make it more white ......
> 
> I like interchangable LED lights that can be switch at will. !!!
> 
> Well I like what I hear of your impression of the Fivre 6N7G. It's no surprise they are not fat...Ferrari are slim and fast.


 
 Just paint it , just fill the dot with paint and wipe off excess and voila..


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Just paint it , just fill the dot with paint and wipe off excess and voila..




What kind of paint do you use, Mike? Your paint in the lettering job looks great!


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Eh... my volume knob has a white dot already but very faint. I like to make it more white ......
> ...


 
 Maybe use some kind of punch thats rounded out at the end just to make dot deeper so you can fill with paint


----------



## hypnos1

mikelap said:


> Maybe use some kind of punch thats rounded out at the end just to make dot deeper so you can fill with paint


 
  
 Hi M...must admit I wouldn't fancy sending those kinds of shocks through the amp's innards!...the knob's screw is hidden in the recess, so is hard to remove - in mine anyway...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi M...must admit I wouldn't fancy sending those kinds of shocks through the amp's innards!...the knob's screw is hidden in the recess, so is hard to remove - in mine anyway...


 
 Do you think it's possible to make the indent a bit deeper with a knife?


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > On a different topic of cooling for Elise I'm thinking of one of these:-
> ...


 
 Awhile back i checked how hot was the rectifier i had on on the WA22 and it was a whopping 168 celsius now thats hot


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> Awhile back i checked how hot was the rectifier i had on on the WA22 and it was a whopping 168 celsius now thats hot


 
 Yes! My Mullard 6080's run about the same. My ECC31's are 'only' running about 70 C.


----------



## MIKELAP

hypnos1 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe use some kind of punch thats rounded out at the end just to make dot deeper so you can fill with paint
> ...


 
 lol you dont wack it lol just little love taps and eventually it will be deep enough .


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> Hey LR...thought we were trying to sort it with the ebayer, lol?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha I am just trying to show off a little


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just paint it , just fill the dot with paint and wipe off excess and voila..
> ...


 
 Any paint you have lying around i used a waterbase acrylic paint i had cleans easily .the trick is not to remove the paint you just put in the dot i used a humid, not wet paper towel that i run across the indent and eventually the excess paint will be removed


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi M...must admit I wouldn't fancy sending those kinds of shocks through the amp's innards!...the knob's screw is hidden in the recess, so is hard to remove - in mine anyway...
> ...


 
 i wouldnt do that you want your dot to be round and not sloppy you need something like this punch but with the end  rounded out a bit more and same size as your dot if its possible you dont want smaller


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> i wouldnt do that you want your dot to be round and not sloppy you need something like this punch but with the end  rounded out a bit more and same size as your dot if its possible you dont want smaller


 
 I think I'd have to push VERY hard with that thing to make a dent in the Elise. Way more than I am comfortable with anyway. Hmm.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i wouldnt do that you want your dot to be round and not sloppy you need something like this punch but with the end  rounded out a bit more and same size as your dot if its possible you dont want smaller
> ...


 
 Isnt the knob alluminum I was a machinist for 35 years so i would be  comfortable doing this but i guess not everybody his .it was just an idea no problem


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> Isnt the knob alluminum


 
 I believe it is, yes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Awhile back i checked how hot was the rectifier i had on on the WA22 and it was a whopping 168 celsius now thats hot




Mike...that is positively dangerous hot! 168C is 334F...that's oven hot!!

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Mike...that is positively dangerous hot! 168C is 334F...that's oven hot!!
> 
> .


 
 How hot do your 6080's run?


----------



## Lord Raven

Why don't you guys used a tiny dot sticker or something? I got bigger problems :/ No headphones, no tubes.. 
  
 The mail is so pathetic that the postman called and said that he is coming, and after an hour I called him to check and he said ok he will come tomorrow LOL I did not get the adapters today, who cares, I don't nothing to listen to and ECC31 tubes are not even in sight.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> How hot do your 6080's run?




They certainly run very warm Suuup, have to cool down a good while before I change them but I don't have a way to measure how hot they are. Run hotter the other powers for sure. 

.


----------



## Suuup

Mike, how much did you pay for your beautiful tube caddy? I might be buying one too, but I don't know if it's a good deal or not.


----------



## gibosi

lord raven said:


> Why don't you guys used a tiny dot sticker or something? I got bigger problems :/ No headphones, no tubes..


 
  
 On a different amp, I just use some automotive striping tape. Easy to see in low light, and with the lights off, I can still feel the slight edge.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi M...must admit I wouldn't fancy sending those kinds of shocks through the amp's innards!...the knob's screw is hidden in the recess, so is hard to remove - in mine anyway...




I was going to get mine off and "fix" too...my white dot almost does not exist.

But I could not figure of how to get it off...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> On a different amp, I just use some automotive striping tape. Easy to see in low light, and with the lights off, I can still feel the slight edge.




This is a great fix! Three thumbs up!

.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Let me know in a PM if you want the GEC LOL


 

 Not just now Raven. As I said I will in early 2016. That's my goal for a pair of GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't you guys sleep? You must be Sales Reps for Elise ...USA, Europe, etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Is this an Elise Sales Rep convention?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Don't you guys sleep? You must be Sales Reps for Elise ...USA, Europe, etc


 
 UT has at last awoken from his slumber.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> You've tempted me away from the parcels, lol!...must switch this thing off - (this addiction is worse than my caffeine one!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Suuup, H1 knows the 5998 and W421A well. 
  
 Yes the one clear sign are the 'domino' plates...dimples so to speak. Some are even branded Chatham 2399 but they are the same deal. Tung Sol branding is the most common. Some even says the early 50s production 5998 sounds better. I have a 1957 and a pair of 1968. My 1968 versions were military equipment left behind in Vietnam by the US when they withdraw from South Vietnam. A sad part of history no doubt. However I hear no differences between the 1957 and 1968 versions.
  
 In the Crack forum, 5998 are very highly regarded. It's almost the de facto standard for the power tube.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Isnt the knob alluminum I was a machinist for 35 years so i would be  comfortable doing this but i guess not everybody his .it was just an idea no problem


 

 Mike would be very comfortable doing all that but us layman shouldn't try cosmetic surgery on Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am thinking of putting a smiley face sticker on the volume knob. That should do the trick. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> On a different amp, I just use some automotive striping tape. Easy to see in low light, and with the lights off, I can still feel the slight edge.


 

 That is a neat solution from G. He has a lot of neat solutions btw. I will always remember the nail polish for loose tube base.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Awhile back i checked how hot was the rectifier i had on on the WA22 and it was a whopping 168 celsius now thats hot


 

 Seriously? Wow. That's really hot. I think you need a cage for the WA22.


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Awhile back i checked how hot was the rectifier i had on on the WA22 and it was a whopping 168 celsius now thats hot
> ...


 
 But normal


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Awhile back i checked how hot was the rectifier i had on on the WA22 and it was a whopping 168 celsius now thats hot
> ...


 
 No kids here besides me according to my wife lol


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Isnt the knob alluminum I was a machinist for 35 years so i would be  comfortable doing this but i guess not everybody his .it was just an idea no problem
> ...


 
 or reflective pinstriping


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Just paint it , just fill the dot with paint and wipe off excess and voila..


 

 I would have preferred the front facia of Elise to be like this Woo where the lettering and logo are clearly painted white. I just think it looks more stylish. Just my opinion.
  
 But I must admit the money goes where it's important...the sound...not that it looks shabby. Far from it...in fact Elise looks like Apple design...clean, simple and stylish.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm now running a pair of 7N7 Raytheon with TS 5998 and on Elise, once pass the 70 hours burn in, it sounds glorious. One noticeable thing about burn in, is that the sounds becomes smoother, as if the rough edges of new capacitors, resistors and whatever is in the innards of Elise are smooth away. This is irrespective of the volume. In fact what is so enjoyable with Elise is that with higher volume, ears do not become irritated with sharp edges. It just becomes more life like with increase volume.
  
 Listen safely. Protect your precious ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I can vouch for the 7N7. I think they sound great. Which leads me to think...The Tung Sol BRP...now these are considered to be the best of the 6SN7...I am sure they will sound superb with a pair of 5998 on Elise. I think CitizenLin confirm that.
  
 Gibosi has a lot of tubes. I would like to hear more of his impressions even though he uses a Glenn amp. Similarly Mike with his WA22. Tube sound characteristics shouldn't vary much especially when it's on a high calibre tube amp.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Don't you guys sleep? You must be Sales Reps for Elise ...USA, Europe, etc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think I might just have sold one unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sold 2 so far LOL
  
 Edit: Bought 1 LOL


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I think I might just have sold one unit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you sell it to the man with many camels or oil wells?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Did you sell it to the man with many camels or oil wells?


 
  
 One to someone in Australia who never sleeps and one to another friend from diyAudio LOL


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> One to someone in Australia who never sleeps and one to another friend from diyAudio LOL


 

 How can you sell to someone from diyAudio. He will open it up and cannibalise it.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> How can you sell to someone from diyAudio. He will open it up and cannibalise it.


 
 LOL he already has a diy Garage Amber tube amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He was asking me about DIY stuff, and was sold to _Elekit Tu-8200DX. __I hope he joins our community, I forwarded his request to Poland _


----------



## UntilThen

I'm expecting more tubes to arrive today. So it will be busy at my workshop today.


----------



## MIKELAP

RCA 6N7G still on amp i really like those no bad tubes these days  i have about 15 hours on them  so far will leave them on for awhile and compare to Mazda's later .


----------



## mordy

Heja Sverige!

PS: This is a test assignment for Google translate

PPS: Wonder if my Delco 6N7G are made by RCA? Code A 9 /_\


----------



## Suuup

I'm now the owner of a beautiful pair of Tungsol 5998's. The auction just ended. I had Roast Mutton from The Hobbit playing in the last minutes, timing the end of the auction coincidentally with the best part of the track. It was an experience of epic proportions.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm now the owner of a beautiful pair of Tungsol 5998's. The auction just ended. I had Roast Mutton from The Hobbit playing in the last minutes, timing the end of the auction coincidentally with the best part of the track. It was an experience of epic proportions.


 

 Woohoo congrats Suuup. What you won would be almost identical in vintage and condition as my new pair of 5998. These green letterings are still brand new.
  
 Take some calm medications before the 1st listen of 5998.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Woohoo congrats Suuup. What you won would be almost identical in vintage and condition as my new pair of 5998. These green letterings are still brand new.


 
 Thanks!
  
 I think I'll have to cool the tube rolling for a while. 
  
 Limit for myself: I may now only purchase 6N7G's, if I find some particularly interesting, for the rest of this month. No other tubes allowed.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Heja Sverige!
> 
> PS: This is a test assignment for Google translate
> 
> PPS: Wonder if my Delco 6N7G are made by RCA? Code A 9 /_\


 

 Heja Sverige Mordy.
  
 My Philco 6N7G are definitely made in USA...not sure if it's by RCA. RCA is like Toyota....they are HUGE.
 Philco date code is 7S ... one is 7P ... any clue what that is?
  
 Seller says 1930s circa


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Woohoo congrats Suuup. What you won would be almost identical in vintage and condition as my new pair of 5998. These green letterings are still brand new.
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I think I'll have to cool the tube rolling for a while.
> 
> Limit for myself: I may now only purchase 6N7G's, if I find some particularly interesting, for the rest of this month. No other tubes allowed.


 

 That's what I said a month ago !!! You don't need anymore Suuup. You've all the key players.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I'm now the owner of a beautiful pair of Tungsol 5998's. The auction just ended. I had Roast Mutton from The Hobbit playing in the last minutes, timing the end of the auction coincidentally with the best part of the track. It was an experience of epic proportions.


 
 Where, when and how? Congrats though  I need only one tube...


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Where, when and how? Congrats though  I need only one tube...


 
 151€ for a pair, seems okay to me. I've used about 620 $ on tubes since I got the Elise. I'll have to cool it now. 
 Edit: Acutally, that number is much higher, as it doesn't include the 5 ECC31's I got for about 135$.


----------



## UntilThen

Cheap but ok condition I think. I think it's 1955.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tung-Sol-5998-Tube-/131646071927?hash=item1ea6b7a477:g:UMMAAOSwT5tWPLkr


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> 151€ for a pair, seems okay to me. I've used about 620 $ on tubes since I got the Elise. I'll have to cool it now.
> Edit: Acutally, that number is much higher, as it doesn't include the 5 ECC31's I got for about 135$.


 

 Very good price $162US for that nearly new pair of 5998. 
 I don't count how much I spend on tubes.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> 151€ for a pair, seems okay to me. I've used about 620 $ on tubes since I got the Elise. I'll have to cool it now.
> Edit: Acutally, that number is much higher, as it doesn't include the 5 ECC31's I got for about 135$.


 
 I just spent 422$ on 3 x ECC31 + adapters, and 1 x 5998. Just need one more and I will quit LOL Seriously!!!
  
 No, I still need Mullard 6080 pair, Chatham 6AS7G, GE 6AS7GA and and  FDD20 + adapters.. Then I will quit the forum head-fi LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Cheap but ok condition I think. I think it's 1955.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tung-Sol-5998-Tube-/131646071927?hash=item1ea6b7a477:g:UMMAAOSwT5tWPLkr


 
 What do you mean by OK?


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > 151€ for a pair, seems okay to me. I've used about 620 $ on tubes since I got the Elise. I'll have to cool it now.
> ...


 
 Think ill leave this picture nearby will be using it alot   lol


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Bye Bye 6n7g
  
 Seller sold them this morning.
 This is msg from seller 
  
"Hello,
I'm sorry but an other eBay member made me a very high bid , I'm sorry for you, I hope you don't hate me.""
  
You win some , you lose some 
But I learn a very valuable lesson.


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> Bye Bye 6n7g
> 
> Seller sold them this morning.
> This is msg from seller
> ...


 
 Guess we're not the only ones who spotted the similarities with the ECC31? Or maybe we were to public about it? Anyway, sad you didn't get them


----------



## UntilThen

What the...it's on auction ...how can they suddenly sell it out right....that's not right. They can't close the bid before time's up.
  
 Did you buy it Raven?


----------



## Suuup

I will be contacting tubesites in search of some. I will let you know if I find some CL!


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> What the...it's on auction ...how can they suddenly sell it out right....that's not right.


 
 He won auction and he sold tubes afterwards or did the seller just sell tubes outright and stopped auction ?


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> He won auction and he sold tubes afterwards or did the seller just sell tubes outright and stopped auction ?


 
 It says the listing ended because the item is no longer available.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

mikelap said:


> He won auction and he sold tubes afterwards or did the seller just sell tubes outright and stopped auction ?


 
 Listed as 10 days auction. This is 2nd day. 9 days left. Ummmm Money rules everything....


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> He won auction and he sold tubes afterwards or did the seller just sell tubes outright and stopped auction ?


 

 That's what I want to know !!! I didn't know they can stop auction and sell it outright. It ain't right !!!
  
 I knew it. Raven offered 3 camels for it.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > He won auction and he sold tubes afterwards or did the seller just sell tubes outright and stopped auction ?
> ...


 
  


citizenlin said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > He won auction and he sold tubes afterwards or did the seller just sell tubes outright and stopped auction ?
> ...


 
 That's not right .


----------



## CITIZENLIN

mikelap said:


> That's not right .


 
 I had my bid in but canceled my bid and ended the auction.


----------



## Suuup

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html
 It seems the seller can cancel if he pays a fee?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> What the...it's on auction ...how can they suddenly sell it out right....that's not right. They can't close the bid before time's up.
> 
> Did you buy it Raven?


 
 LOL I think I missed it either.. I am sure this forum is making the prices high!!!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL I think I missed it either.. I am sure this forum is making the prices high!!!


 
 Have you tried googling 'FDD20 tube'? This thread comes up in the top results. We're making a difference..


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> > LOL I think I missed it either.. I am sure this forum is making the prices high!!!
> ...


 
 It could be become  the very first thread that exist via PM


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html
> It seems the seller can cancel if he pays a fee?


 
 Not when there are active bidding in place. Well, what can we do!.....
  
 I still got my Elise. ECC31 and FDD20 are on their way.


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> Not when there are active bidding in place. Well, what can we do!.....
> 
> I still got my Elise. ECC31 and FDD20 are on their way.


 
 You should have the ECC31 soon, I think Colin sent them today.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL the tube's gone and we're up in arms. Now we'll never know what that sounds like.


----------



## Lord Raven

What happens if you don't receive the stuff you buy from eBay? My 5998 tube is sent back to central post office in a different city without even informing me, they put it that delivery failed. I was not called or informed or anything. WTH
  
 Do I launch a refund or something?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> You should have the ECC31 soon, I think Colin sent them today.


 
 Suuup, Colin
  
 Thank you.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> What happens if you don't receive the stuff you buy from eBay? My 5998 tube is sent back to central post office in a different city without even informing me, they put it that delivery failed. I was not called or informed or anything. WTH
> 
> Do I launch a refund or something?


 

 If delivery exceeds the delivery date range when you order then yes you can contact seller and ask why. If he doesn't care, then yes you start request refund proceedings. Usually a responsible seller will not leave you stranded but you're covered for non receipt of goods by eBay.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> If delivery exceeds the delivery date range when you order then yes you can contact seller and ask why. If he doesn't care, then yes you start request refund proceedings. Usually a responsible seller will not leave you stranded but you're covered for non receipt of goods by eBay.


 
 Same thing happened with Elise, no one called me when it arrived. I had to travel to a different city to find out if it really arrived and had to self pick it, otherwise it would have gone back.
  
 I cannot do this for a bunch of single tube. I am tired of tube hunting and already tired of rolling them LOL
  
 I will just wait for the bloody ECC31 tubes and call it a day, all my investments should go into decent headphones first. 
  
 Courier in this country sucks, specially the government owned.


----------



## UntilThen

It's unfortunate you have unpleasant delivery experience Raven. One needs patience and perseverance in this hobby. Sometimes things happens smoothly, sometimes it doesn't. Sennheiser Orpheaus wasn't created in a day. Neither was it created in a week or a month. It takes 24 years before the current HE1060 / HEV 1060 is revealed. The last Orpheaus was released in 1991 when you were still playing hide and seek.
  
 So patience. Tubes makes a difference !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Some pics of the *Visseaux 6A6*. I'll give a 1st impression later. Suffice to say I'm very excited.
  





 Don't look at my thumb and immaculate nail. Look at the tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The *gibosi solution* to the lame tiny 'barely seen' volume mark (small piece of auto pinstripe):






Thank you, g!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

JV, you have matching drivers unreal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  j/k
  
 Looks very good all black. You running it with 5998? I think that would be explosive. I like it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, you have matching drivers unreal.    j/k
> 
> Looks very good all black. You running it with 5998? I think that would be explosive. I like it.




Yes, ninja amp tonight....

2x FDD20 and 5998 and sounding really good. Log book says 79 hours on new FDD20...all is well.

The FDD20's are good as NOS and GREAT with some time on them.

.


----------



## MIKELAP

Will try one of those rectifiers next from the 20's the balloon shape UX280 nice shape, predessesor to the type 80 rectifier  .


----------



## UntilThen

JV, can you tell me if your Visseaux 6N7G looks anywhere near like my Visseaux 6A6 in the internal constructions from the photos?
  
 Visseausx 6A6 is getting better and better and better and better by the minute. I'm going to sit through a lengthy listen with various power tubes as well as the ONE before posting any impressions. Taking notes as I go along but it's sounding so good with some songs I forget to write. I'm just listening, smiling.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Will try one of those rectifiers next from the 20's the balloon shape UX280 nice shape, predessesor to the type 80 rectifier  .


 

 What light bulb is this?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, can you tell me if your Visseaux 6N7G looks anywhere near like my Visseaux 6A6 in the internal constructions from the photos?
> 
> Visseausx 6A6 is getting better and better and better and better by the minute. I'm going to sit through a lengthy listen with various power tubes as well as the ONE before posting any impressions. Taking notes as I go along but it's sounding so good with some songs I forget to write. I'm just listening, smiling.




The *Joybringers* have thinner micas and holes in the round black plates on the sides:







4 fins up top, but they do not use U shapes...

Very similar otherwise...my bases also have the engraved logo which I just happened to have noticed yesterday, Opposite there is a drawn Logo that is hard to tell what was meant.

.


----------



## UntilThen

Interesting your Visseaux 6N7G top 4 fins looks similar to the Mazda 6N7G, otherwise the the other parts are similar to the Visseaux 6A6.


----------



## UntilThen

I am on the hunt again and as soon as I saw this Fivre 6A6 from the same Italian seller, I bought it. US$29 for the pair with original box and a certificate of authenticity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The Visseaux 6N7G cost me $27.29 per pair. Amazing value for the sound I'm getting.


----------



## mordy

According to eBay rules you are allowed to end the auction if 12 or more hours left in the listing and 1 or more bids and you want to sell to the high bidder.

There are no fees charged for this.

If there are less than 12 hours left you are not allowed to end the listing.

-Always learn something new....


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Mordy ...good to know. Whoever bought that Fivre 6N7G must have offered a substantial sum.
  
 Anyway no more tubes for me until Elise Mk2 !!!


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> Some pics of the *Visseaux 6A6*. I'll give a 1st impression later. Suffice to say I'm very excited.


 
  
 These look very similar to my National Union 6A6. Makes me wonder if NU was sharing technology with Visseaux....


----------



## UntilThen

G, what about the bottom getter? 2nd pic on my photos.
  
 Shape of the micas are different but you're right...very similar.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I am on the hunt again and as soon as I saw this Fivre 6A6 from the same Italian seller, I bought it. US$29 for the pair with original box and a certificate of authenticity. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> The Visseaux 6N7G cost me $27.29 per pair. Amazing value for the sound I'm getting.




Those are beautiful tubes, UT...great find!

Think the stamp of authenticity...is actually a tax stamp...seen on many older Italian Tubes...?

.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim has the Fivre 6N7G. I must borrow from him and compare.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> G, what about the bottom getter? 2nd pic on my photos.
> 
> Shape of the micas are different but you're right...very similar.


 
  
 The NU has the same dimpled half-moon getter. But then, my Sylvania and Tung-Sol 6A6 have the same getters as well. So at least with respect to American 6A6, it would seem that this was the norm.
  
 While these tubes are not identical, the similarities are striking, especially the plates and the very distinctive arrangement of the top horizontal and vertical mica spacers. And it certainly does make me wonder. But even though they look almost the same, I seriously doubt that they sound the same....


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks to you G. I think the 6A6 are incredible value. I'm letting the cat out of the bag a bit here but the Visseaux 6A6 is a different beast to my NU 6A6 sound, which isn't similar to your NU 6A6 lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tidal users...

Suggestion: Artist: Cassandra Wilson album: Blue Light Till Dawn...song: Blue Light Till Dawn.

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Tidal users...
> 
> Suggestion: Artist: Cassandra Wilson album: Blue Light Till Dawn...song: Blue Light Till Dawn.
> 
> .


 

 I love Cassandra Wilson. Some tracks are heavy bass ...excellent bass test.
  
 I have buffering issues with Tidal on the weekend. All the aussie forum users were complaining too. I wonder if you have the same problem JV? I'm ok now though.


----------



## dittore

I'm looking for my first tube amp for my Sennheiser HD 600. What do you think, how does the Elise compare to the Schiit Valhalla 2 or the Espressivo?


----------



## JazzVinyl

I dropped Tidal because they don't have the ECM catalog...

Looked in to why...seems ECM artists feel ripped off by super low commissions paid by streaming services. 
As a result, ECM does not participate in streaming services...including the BIG one...iTunes!

What ECM does do...is release giant 256K MP3 download sample packages that have hundreds of tunes my many artists over many years...whopper huge sample packs for $19.95. 

Works like a charm, I have bought many a CD by artists and albums I would never have known existed. 

For instance...a band called "Food" and their album called "Mercurial Balm"...

Great album...I would never have known existed, if not for the great ECM sample packs...


----------



## UntilThen

dittore said:


> I'm looking for my first tube amp for my Sennheiser HD 600. What do you think, how does the Elise compare to the Schiit Valhalla 2 or the Espressivo?


 

 Hi dittore and welcome.
  
 I heard users loving Espressivo with their HD600 or HD650 but Elise is a different beast. She's the more expensive and much better model than the Expressivo. Ask Lukasz and he will tell you they are in a different league. I don't know Schitt Valhalla 2 or heard of it (heard the sound I mean). 
  
 I can assure you that if you buy Elise you will never have to upgrade your tube amp again even if you go for HD800 later. It is that good. Read Karl's review here. He prefers it over his Crack with Speedball and he was only using Elise stock tubes at the time of comparison.
  
 Check out the many reviews and impressions on the original Elise thread and here.
  
 Best
 UT
  
 P/S I'm using a HD650 and it is literally singing with Elise. It is the best pairing...period.


----------



## mordy

Hi All,

In my quest for the 11/10 combination I made a discovery....

Question:

What do you get when you cross a Mazda 6N7G (ECC31) with a C3g?

A 6BL7GT.

Anybody out there that is able to try the 6BL7 tubes? (Requires adapters for an external power supply since they draw 1.5A.)

I am amazed at the sound. Seems that my bargain tubes may be new, because they start to sound better and better - the sound stage and the bass opened up at around 30 hours. 

At first I thought that my tubes were used because of how they looked. The seller stated that they measured 55/58 and 54/50 with a minimum good being 25, so it is possible that they measure NOS.

Both are rebranded Sylvania. One is labeled Philco from Nov 1952 and the other is labeled Automatic Radio from July 1951.

Man, these tubes opened up - can't believe my ears: MONSTROUS, THUNDEROUS BASS as if I just connected a humongous sub woofer. Can't believe this...

Played a drum solo - never heard my system with so much slam and impact, going so deep. This 6BL7GT is a 300lb quarter back. Clean, clear, controlled bass and sub bass. The mid range and treble are excellent.

As I am writing this I have put over 50 hours on these tubes. Can't beat the price/performance ratio. Decided to pair them with my Chatham 6AS7G tubes instead of the Sylvania 6AS7GA - sounds a little better.

In comparison with the Mazda 6N7G tubes the sound stage is not as wide, but the bass goes lower with more slam. The presentation is brighter with the tubes fitting the cliche of "ruthlessly revealing." You hear the difference in quality between different recordings instantly. Give them a well recorded tune and they will sing (and growl).

Was thinking of buying up all the 6BL7 tubes on eBay - nothing expensive here; from $6 to $25 with tons of tubes for under $10-12. I'll make a fortune! However, I reconsidered since there are well over 350 listings on eBay for the 6BL7 lol. My guess is that not that many amps use 1.5A driver tubes.

Fellow Elise owners - this is a discovery. Don't want to put a ratings number on these yet but definitively a mid 9's or more. Need to find the power tubes with the best synergy.

The truth is that in my system the great Mazda 6N7G hum loudly with headphones, but no hum through my speakers. The 6BL7 tubes are very quiet and no headphone hum, so I may prefer them 'cause of WAF, especially playing loud drum solos....

Can't believe what I am hearing for $12 - just remember that you must have an external power source to drive these tubes that draw 1.5A, whereas the Elise is limited to 1A tubes as drivers.

I am using my old 9pin socket extenders (from the Little Dot days) with heater wires. This requires an inelegant tower of adapters. Does anybody have an idea how to adapt an octal socket extender for external heater wires?

Have fun!


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha Mordy you've found the end apparently. I never cease to be amazed at the discovery going on here everyday. Sigh at this rate, Elise price will go up for sure or the order queue will stretch a mile.
  
 I need a picture of 6BL7.
  
 Seriously Mordy I can't take anymore better sonic excellence...overkill already.
  
 I'm looking at the options and tubes we can use in Elise...she's an incredible tube rolling amp, not to mention a sound to die for.
  
 @dittore ...press the buy button now. Without hesitation.
  
 There


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Note that I am not ready to rate these tubes yet - need more time and more experimenting with power tubes. Not saying end game at all, but super value for sure.....

I have a general problem with my old Vista PC - cannot copy and paste pictures onto this thread, and all my fonts changed to bold Arial black. Haven't figured out how to get back the functionality and reset the font. Not giving up but haven't found a solution yet (system restore did not help).


----------



## UntilThen

That's a bummer regarding your ability to post pics with your PC. Understand about your experimentation but it certainly sounds very promising.
  
 Moody I'm really surprised your Mazda hums with your headphone. For the record, NONE of my tubes (powers or drivers) hum with both my HE560 and HD650. None at all. Not even old looking tubes that arrived. It is simply hum free and noise free. Total silence when no music is playing. No noise even using 12V Ac adapter to power the FDD20 tube.
  
 If only I can demo my setup right now using the Visseaux 6A6 with the chunky adapters and TS 5998 powers, anyone hearing it will buy Elise in a jiffy. 
  
 Stock tubes with Elise and you'll not stop smiling that's a fact. Better tubes will put you in a fit.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Perfect so this will work? Not sure if it will fit in Elise with 2 of those LOL.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/201359298646?hash=item2ee1f31056:g:kckAAOSwN81WEJ7U


 
  


jazzvinyl said:


> The top is made to rotate, you can position it, to work. It's 4 big tubes to replace 2. Looks like they draw 0.3 amps current so current draw would not be a problem....
> 
> Would it be worth it from a sound quality gain, is the question.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm using a virtually identical 1-to-2 tube adapter in my Ember amp, and all I can say is GO FOR IT!!! 100% of the people who have tried this setup on my type of amp have agreed that 2 tubes sound better than one in this case anyway. The most noticeable difference is increased soundstage, realism / organic sound, and instrument separation. Yet the impact suffers slightly. But of course your results could differ (YMMV).


----------



## DecentLevi

PS yes it's true that those rotate. Just loosen the screw in the middle


----------



## Suuup

If anyone wants an ECC31 for the 2031 combo, this one ends in 16 hours http://www.ebay.com/itm/151872996569?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI151872996569.N36.S1.R1.TR4


----------



## UntilThen

Ok DL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm afraid that is a project that I'll undertake in the new year. Unless someone wants to be the pioneer in which case I'll be more than happy to watch and observe. However I'm about to share my new findings which is making me very excited.
  
 ^^ there you go DL, if you want to go ahead with that ECC31, it's cheaper and though I'm not familiar with that test equipment, seller says test good.


----------



## Suuup

Is it weird that I actually prefer my old powers to the 6080 Mullards? I can HEAR that the Mullards are objectively better than the old powers, but I enjoy the sound of the old ones much more. The Mullards feel thin compared to my 1x JAN 6080 + 1x 6H13C. I cannot fathom this. I want to like the Mullards more, but I just don't. Is it because I'm more used to the older powers?
  
 Edit: This goes for anything Mark Knopfler. Most other songs / bands I prefer the Mullards.


----------



## UntilThen

You need longer burn in on the Mullard. Also note what I commented on the Mullard regarding the bass. Also 6H13C are known for their heavier bass presence. So there is no right or wrong but it's a preference. If you like the 6H13C, you'll probably like the GE 6AS7GA too. In any case, you will like the 5998 if that is your inclination.
  
 It's a fact. Some of us prefer a warmer, lusher tone. Also you're using the T1, so that could be why. Synergy. 
  
 Yes, I'm not talking bassheads here.  It's not that extreme. Mullard has a leaner, tighter, more energised sound to my ears than the Chatham. YMMV. Others may disagree.
 Which doesn't mean it's bad. With the right gear and tubes it will be spot on.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You need longer burn in on the Mullard. Also note what I commented on the Mullard regarding the bass. Also 6H13C are known for their heavier bass presence. So there is no right or wrong but it's a preference. If you like the 6H13C, you'll probably like the GE 6AS7GA too. In any case, you will like the 5998 if that is your inclination.


 
 I've never seen myself as very fond of bass. I like bass, but I'm not a basshead at all, which makes this even more weird. I have about 10 hours on the Mullards now. 
  
 My old powers has a narrower soundstage and sounds more congested. They are not as detailed. The only thing is their focus on the low mids / bass. They don't even extend as deep as the Mullards, yet they win me over. 
  
 Guess I'll give the Mullards more burn time..


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've never seen myself as very fond of bass. I like bass, but I'm not a basshead at all, which makes this even more weird. I have about 10 hours on the Mullards now.
> 
> *My old powers has a narrower soundstage and sounds more congested. They are not as detailed. The only thing is their focus on the low mids / bass.* They don't even extend as deep as the Mullards, yet they win me over.
> 
> Guess I'll give the Mullards more burn time..


 
 Exactly you describe the 6H13C correctly. Give the Mullard more time. Bass will be more impactful on burn in. You'll be surprised. They are pedigree power tubes.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Exactly you describe the 6H13C correctly.


 
 LOL. At least I know my ears are working properly. 
 I guess it makes sense that I prefer them with Mark Knopfler. 
  
 Edit: Just put on some Renee Olstead. It's nowhere near as enjoyable with the old powers as with the Mullards. Guess this is one of the positives of tuberolling? A tube to suit every kind of music.


----------



## UntilThen

What drivers were you using with the Mullard?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> What drivers were you using with the Mullard?


 
 ECC31 as always.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright that means you're accustomed to a warmer, beefier, more low end tone. You will gradually begin to appreciate the Mullard with the ECC31. Your hearing will tune in to a richer, clearer, more detailed sound. I hope lol. If not then 5998 to the rescue for sure.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Alright that means you're accustomed to a warmer, beefier, more low end tone. You will gradually begin to appreciate the Mullard with the ECC31. Your hearing will tune in to a richer, clearer, more detailed sound. I hope lol. If not then 5998 to the rescue for sure.


 
 It's actually the reason I bought the 5998.. I've never liked beefy music, but now I do? What is going on?


----------



## UntilThen

I was going to write a detailed comparison between these:-
  
 2 Visseaux 6A6 with 5998
 FDD20/ECC31 with 5998
 2 ECC31 with 5998
 2 Mazda with 5998
  
 I'll do that after dinner.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> It's actually the reason I bought the 5998.. I've never liked beefy music, but now I do? What is going on?


 

 Lol beefy music. For want of a better description. I think we're referring to layers here. You'll be surprised how your taste can changed over time but not too drastically.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Lol beefy music. For want of a better description. I think we're referring to layers here. You'll be surprised how your taste can changed over time but not too drastically.


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary
 See Full. That is exactly it. The old powers sound more full. Especially about not necessarily extended bass. The Mullards extend further than the old.


----------



## UntilThen

Well as far as I'm concerned they denote the same thing to me. Full, added layers, beefier. It's the 1st time I use beefy. I must be hungry. It's dinner time. !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I did say Mullard are leaner (thinner) sounding.
  
 That's what I said in post 1855 
_Mullard has a leaner, tighter, more energised sound to my ears than the Chatham_
  
 Suuup, Mullard will warm up and sound fuller on burn in. Maybe not to the same degree as the 6H13C but you wouldn't want that.


----------



## UntilThen

It's Dire Straits time on the Visseaux 6A6.
  
 Can you tell me if you're having trouble with Tidal?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's Dire Straits time on the Visseaux 6A6.
> 
> Can you tell me if you're having trouble with Tidal?



I had no problems this morning. I'm not home right now.


----------



## UntilThen

For 3 days Tidal has been buffering on me. Everyone on the aussie forum is complaining. It's clearly not my super fast cable connection. I want to know if this is just Australia's problem with Tidal.
  
 Where's my buddy aqsw. He has Tidal in Canada.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> For 3 days Tidal has been buffering on me. Everyone on the aussie forum is complaining. It's clearly not my super fast cable connection. I want to know if this is just Australia's problem with Tidal.
> 
> Where's my buddy aqsw. He has Tidal in Canada.



Tidal in Denmark has been fine the last 3 days..


----------



## DecentLevi

I personally would never use a lossless online streaming service like Tidal for _all _my music listening. Just some if any. If it's FLAC quality that's around 900kbps of data transfer required to stream these songs (not sure if that's the same as actual used kilobytes from the web connection). If anything you'd always have to wait a tad longer for the song to load and have a chance to slow down your neighbor's Internet connection. On the plus side, disk space is always getting cheaper, with multi-terabyte external drives costing less than $100 nowadays. Other alternative ways are legal (and non) lossless downloads, or you can buy used CD's dirt-chap from local sellers globally on Discogs.com then rip them losslessly.
  
 So has anybody decided to take up the idea of updating a single list of a ranking of their favorite tubes? There seemed to be a unanamous agreement on it, to include like a favorite list ranked in order of each tube combination (and optional sound impressions of various attributes of each tube combo), but it seems nobody's doing it yet. If you want to know the reality, some of us are slow readers and spend upwards of 3 hours each day to keep up with this thread. It is very entertaining and educational, and you guys seem totally friendly; don't get me wrong! But for the sake of time-saving, and organization of both the tube roller and the reader (or addict and lurker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), this would be useful for us both. For example @UntilThen you could just update this post each time you find a new favorite pairing or discover one to be inferior.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a whole Tb and a dedicated iMac for my music in Apple lossless. I use Tidal for exploring music and convenience. FYI, I'm on cable broadband at 100mbps. I have never had any issues with Tidal until this weekend. It's clearly Tidal's problem. My connection speed isn't affected by my neighbour's usage. Plus I'm connected via Ethernet not wifi. In the past, playing songs doesn't even blink. It's instant.


----------



## UntilThen

*Visseaux 6A6 with Tung Sol 5998*
  
*These 4 combinations are my favourites now.*
  
 It's been a whole day of listening to this combo and in comparison to the following:-
  
 FDD20/ECC31 with 5998
 2 ECC31 with 5998
 2 Mazda 6N7G with 5998
  
 So how did all these fair in this comparison? 
  
 2031 is spot on the equator. All notes are aligned with the midrange smack right where it belongs ...in the middle. It's a linear seamless presentation of music across the FR.
  
 Mazda seems a few degrees north of the equator. Things are moved upwards with an emphasis on the highs, upper mids and mid bass. Hence it feels the most dynamic of the quartet.
  
 ECC31 is a few degrees south of the equator. Emphasis is mids, mid bass, lower bass. Highs is smooth and pleasant but lower bass is felt most of the quartet.
  
 Visseausx 6A6 is the surprise package. It is as linear as the 2031 and as exciting to listen as the champ. Transparency, clarity, details, warm, bass impact are all there. I strongly recommend the Visseaux 6A6. If you can find it, buy it and have a listen. You won't regret.


----------



## UntilThen

DL, noted but I am still revising. Trying to keep the combinations smaller and more manageable. I think it's quite clear now that I prefer ECC31, 6N7G, 6A6 and FDD20 over 6SN7. Even C3G has drop off the radar to keep my list short.
  
 My impressions shouldn't be the be all and end all. Others impressions are equally important.


----------



## Suuup

Have you guys seen this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N7G-Fivre-N-3-valvole-/161877417116?hash=item25b0a55c9c:g:8hsAAOSw7hRWOUdp
 It's Fivre 6N7G. Doesn't look the same as the others, but nevertheless..


----------



## UntilThen

I have seen one Fivre 6N7G from my Italian seller. I have too many tubes already. If you can afford it, buy it. I got the Fivre 6A6 this morning. I have a feeling the characteristics are the same.
  
 nephilim has a pair and he was impressed with it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I have seen one Fivre 6N7G from my Italian seller. I have too many tubes already. If you can afford it, buy it. I got the Fivre 6A6 this morning. I have a feeling the characteristics are the same.


 
 No more tubes for me for a while. Those 5998 hurt.


----------



## UntilThen

Hahahaha....you should stop.
  
 There's a whole lot of similarities between 6A6 and 6N7G and to a degree even ECC31.
  
 I am satisfied with my tubes now. Totally. Incredible sound.


----------



## UntilThen

@MIKELAP this one for you especially


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> For 3 days Tidal has been buffering on me. Everyone on the aussie forum is complaining. It's clearly not my super fast cable connection. I want to know if this is just Australia's problem with Tidal.
> 
> Where's my buddy aqsw. He has Tidal in Canada.



I only used Tidal once this weekend, and it was running perfectly.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I only used Tidal once this weekend, and it was running perfectly.


 

 It was you aqsw. It's all your fault. Please shift the bandwidth south.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> It was you aqsw. It's all your fault. Please shift the bandwidth south.




If you can get your toilet to swirl the opposite direction, I'm sure Tidal will work properly.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi ...post 1873 is basically it for me. Any of those 4 combinations and you'll be happy. Maybe when Fivre 6A6 comes I will include. I have a feeling it will be good.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> If you can get your toilet to swirl the opposite direction, I'm sure Tidal will work properly.


 

 No aqsw I'll migrate to Canada.


----------



## UntilThen

Visseaux 6A6 is so good I'm still listening to it.
  
 Someone should get this. It's ending soon...  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/262120405614?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI262120405614.N36.S1.R1.TR5
  
  
 aqsw do yourself a favour and buy it. Your LCD2.2 will love it. and your Ether too.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Visseaux 6A6 is so good I'm still listening to it.
> 
> Someone should get this. It's ending soon...
> 
> ...


 
 It's been there for many weeks now. No one seems to bid on it.


----------



## UntilThen

I would have if I didn't already buy the Fivre 6A6 this morning. 6A6 is cheaper than 6N7G but what surprise me is the V6 sounds better and is now my fav. Cheapest and yet my fav....


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I would have if I didn't already buy the Fivre 6A6 this morning.


 
 Guess we'll never find out then.. Unless CL might be tempted?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Guess we'll never find out then.. Unless CL might be tempted?


 

 We know it's good. nep has review it already. He was impressed. Transparency, clarity, details and controlled bass. A great listen. Not to mention a very nice looking Italian tube.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Visseaux 6A6 is so good I'm still listening to it.
> ...


 
 They look a bit like  my RCA 6n7g  top part,  the tube on the right side


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> It's unfortunate you have unpleasant delivery experience Raven. One needs patience and perseverance in this hobby. Sometimes things happens smoothly, sometimes it doesn't. Sennheiser Orpheaus wasn't created in a day. Neither was it created in a week or a month. It takes 24 years before the current HE1060 / HEV 1060 is revealed. The last Orpheaus was released in 1991 when you were still playing hide and seek.
> 
> So patience. Tubes makes a difference !!!


 
  
 Patience, I just received my adapters that came from China, this means I will have to wait for my ECC31 tubes :/ I picked these adapters in a nearby hotel, they were dropped there wrongly. This is the level of courier in this country.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> The *gibosi solution* to the lame tiny 'barely seen' volume mark (small piece of auto pinstripe):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Shouldn't Elise be sitting on a horizontal surface? 
  
 I need that stripe either, is it shiny in the dark?


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> According to eBay rules you are allowed to end the auction if 12 or more hours left in the listing and 1 or more bids and you want to sell to the high bidder.
> 
> There are no fees charged for this.
> 
> ...


 
 I just sold my GEC tubes :/ Through the same process haha Cancelled my winning bid and probably transferred to a fellow friend


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Shouldn't Elise be sitting on a horizontal surface?
> 
> I need that stripe either, is it shiny in the dark?




Camera was crooked 

It was a pleasure to know where the volume is set, it's reflective so will be seen if there is a bit of light to reflect...


----------



## UntilThen

I have sponsorship deals now for my Elise. She's is that good. A metallic sticker from ASUS. It's sitting level at 9 o'clock. Other corporations are fighting for sponsorship rights now.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I have sponsorship deals now for my Elise. She's is that good. A metallic sticker from ASUS. It's sitting level at 9 o'clock. Other corporations are fighting for sponsorship rights now.


 
 So that's how you can afford all those tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> So that's how you can afford all those tubes.




Indeed! Have a question...which 7N7's do you have, UT?

.


----------



## UntilThen

JV has my missing link now. He has the Visseaux 6N7G (aka the Joybringer) which I don't see anymore now.
  
 I'm sure curious as a cat to know how the Joybringer sounds compared to the V6.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Indeed! Have a question...which 7N7's do you have, UT?
> 
> .


 

 It ain't 7N7...code name 8N8. Oh sorry you meant what brand of 7N7 do I have? Raytheon. Just know that the majority of 7N7 are made by Sylvania. So there could be a lot of rebrand. Gibosi and Oskari, please correct my heresy if wrong.
  
 I should have said ASUS 7N7.


----------



## UntilThen

V6 is tonally correct. There's something about it. I can't put a finger to it but it moves me.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> They look a bit like  my RCA 6n7g  top part,  the tube on the right side


 

 Mike I think your tube is branded RCA by mistake. Guy who branded it pick up the wrong stamp. It should have been Visseaux !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I have sponsorship deals now for my Elise. She's is that good. A metallic sticker from ASUS. It's sitting level at 9 o'clock. Other corporations are fighting for sponsorship rights now.


 
  
 Hey UT...that setup looks cool. And at least the bathtubs look well made, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Can't wait for in-depth findings with further burn-in...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...that setup looks cool. And at least the bathtubs look well made, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1, can you make a more subtle looking 6A6 to 6SN7 adapter for me? What's wrong with the china adapter maker? Why must it be so BIG.


----------



## hypnos1

Well guys...5 weeks into the new thread, and the view count stands at 24,487 - reckon that's some kind of record, eh?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...mind you, UT's score must be about 24,486 lol, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...WELL DONE *EVERYONE*...keep up the good work!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps.  Lukasz will be _very _pleased, I'm sure!...


----------



## UntilThen

Lukasz will be missing his Christmas with the endless orders coming in. I must go to Poland to help him. I do know how to connect 12V now.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> *I listened to it for just 2 nights and first impression was really good with very tight, not too fat but sufficient bass. Felt faster and more direct than the ECC31. The Mazda brought back more weight. *However, both Fivre and Mazda started to hum after a couple of hours - initially they were dead silent. Need to run them more.
> 
> Unfortunately this will take some time as #11 sits in its box and waits to travel back to Poland for a quick check - and potentially some cosmetic improvements.


 
 See nephilim is really spot on with his assessment of ECC31 and Mazda. I've no doubt he's absolutely right too about the Fivre 6N7G. Here he's talking about the Fivre 6N7G in comparison to the ECC31 and Mazda.
  
 So grab the Fivre 6N7G while stocks last.
  
 FYI, my impression of the V6 in comparison with ECC31 and Mazda is similar. Now I'm waiting on the Fivre 6A6 to complete the picture. I have a 6th sense that the Visseaux and Fivre 6A6 have similar sonic characteristics.
  
 On the 6N7G:-
*'The Fivre felt faster and more direct than the ECC31 but the Mazda brought back more weight'.*
  
 nephilim nail it with one sentence. I'm voting him for the next Academy Award.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have sponsorship deals now for my Elise. She's is that good. A metallic sticker from ASUS. It's sitting level at 9 o'clock. Other corporations are fighting for sponsorship rights now.




I don't know...might need yet another John Wayne Eye Patch (*JWEP*) for your volume indicator, there, UT 

.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, can you make a more subtle looking 6A6 to 6SN7 adapter for me? What's wrong with the china adapter maker? Why must it be so BIG.


 
  
 Probably could, UT - and even easier with no need for extra heating wires, lol! -  but sorry, can't even keep up with current workload I'm afraid...(still haven't replaced my own second adapted FDD20 that just upped and died on me - worked fine until the epoxy resin went in, for goodness sake!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








). Thank Heavens I am more than happy with the need for just one in the magic combo...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  For a 'normal' 6A6 adapter you're limited by the socket needed, which of course is _very_ BIG in the first place, alas...


----------



## nephilim

My #11 is over the ocean,
 my #11 is over the sea,
 my #11 is over the ocean,
 oh bring back my #11 to meeeeee...
  
 In the meantime I'm listening to the Calyx M directly - actually, it doesn't sound too bad but it certainly lacks a fair amount of impact and weight. Honestly, I felt a bit startled when I put on the cans before pushing "play" and heard... nothing  I hope #11 does the same when she (?!) comes back.
  
 Somebody mentioned 7N7... anybody wants to have 2 pairs w/adapters? I have to get rid of some!


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> Probably could, UT - and even easier with no need for extra heating wires, lol! -  but sorry, can't even keep up with current workload I'm afraid...(still haven't replaced my own second adapted FDD20 that just upped and died on me - worked fine until the epoxy resin went in, for goodness sake!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What do you mean by 'upped and died'? I hate audiophile language. And when the equipment dies.


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> My #11 is over the ocean,
> my #11 is over the sea,
> my #11 is over the ocean,
> oh bring back my #11 to meeeeee...
> ...


 
  
 My sincerest sympathies, neph....for being without the Elise fix for what will be a fair while, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I do so hope she does indeed come back in *silence!!!*   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lord raven said:


> What do you mean by 'upped and died'? I hate audiophile language.* And when the equipment dies.*


 
  
 Yo LR...especially when you've spent _*many*_ gruelling hours over a tricky job, lol!!
  
 Basically, I'd finished adapting the FDD20, and it worked fine prior to sealing everything in epoxy resin - which then, of course, makes it *permanent!*....and after?...*NOTHING!!*...*NADA!!...NICHTS!!!...RIEN!!...NIENTE!!  *








....get my meaning, comrade?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Not best pleased, I can assure you!...hence will not be encouraging others to even try this task, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

This looks so good. Why didn't I think of this before. Now I'll suggest to Lukasz to issue standard Elise metallic stickers for the volume knob.


----------



## Lord Raven

I spent 2 hours at the postal office to find out that my 2 x ECC31 and 1 x 5998 are sent back  That means, *NOTHING!!*...*NADA!!...NICHTS!!!...RIEN!!...NIENTE!!*
  
 I still did not get the meaning of 'upped and died' LOL I think that means, it just stopped working, not that it came out of the socket accidently and got burnt or something  LOL
  
 This is why I don't want tube rolling in my life, simple life is better!!!
  
 Also, GEC order got cancelled, for that I am thankful, I don't know if you're getting them or not LOL Check your PM soon...
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Yo LR...especially when you've spent _*many*_ gruelling hours over a tricky job, lol!!
> 
> Basically, I'd finished adapting the FDD20, and it worked fine prior to sealing everything in epoxy resin - which then, of course, makes it *permanent!*....and after?...*NOTHING!!*...*NADA!!...NICHTS!!!...RIEN!!...NIENTE!!  *
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> This looks so good. Why didn't I think of this before. Now I'll suggest to Lukasz to issue standard Elise metallic stickers for the volume knob.


 
  
 Errrrrr..._*no thanks, UT!!!*_...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Basically, I'd finished adapting the FDD20, and it worked fine prior to sealing everything in epoxy resin - which then, of course, makes it *permanent!*....


 
  
 Should be fileable. (?)


----------



## UntilThen

Alright busy day as I set up Elise to the home dinosaur for a spin. Jurassic Park here I come.


----------



## UntilThen

Three Musketeers came today. 2 more on the way.


----------



## Lord Raven

You're driving the tube market UT  LOL Keep it low, bro... I needed those but I gave up on them  Instead I earned 4 x ECC31's.. I just need one more 5998 before I quit LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Don't you learn from Mikelap? It's never the end.


----------



## UntilThen

My home stereo already sound so good. Why do I need Elise as a preamp? What will she do apart from the glow?


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL for me it is the end  I got other things to do in life besides tube rolling, I need to book cheap flights to Oz, plans a vacation LOL I took my wife to the postal office, she totally hated me today, I am sure she will find out about my tubes and then it will be the end for sure. We sat there for 2 hours and I got nothing, if I got tubes, she would hate them too.. by now!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> My home stereo already sound so good. Why do I need Elise as a preamp? What will she do apart from the glow?


 
 Stretch the sound stage haha I remember someone from the old thread, lorspeaker, he used to say that in a weird way, and shaffer used to agree to that IIRC LOL I hated that logic though!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Well I just realise how much more soundstage and everything else there are when I start up the dormant 'HiFi'...I was so shocked !!!!
  
 Why did I sit in my office for 2 months with a headphone when I can sprawl on the couch in the lounge and be hit by REAL speakers. !!!
  
 Ok this is Head-Fi, that's why. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It's not speaker-fi
  
 I'm going to connect it up now. Wish me luck. Hope I don't blow it up.
  
 If soundstage doesn't improve I'll be looking for Lorspeaker and give him my Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Phew massive soundstage. Speakers sound like B&W Nautilus now. Holy mackerel it's amazing. Try it guys, Elise is incredible as a pre-amp. Some pictures. Sorry can't do the sound.
  
*Visseaux 6A6 with Tung Sol 5998   ----  bye bye headphones*


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Phew massive soundstage. Speakers sound like B&W Nautilus now. Holy mackerel it's amazing. Try it guys, Elise is incredible as a pre-amp. Some pictures. Sorry can't do the sound.




What tubes are you running?

.


----------



## Lord Raven

Looks and sounds awesome to me  This is exactly my future plan.


----------



## UntilThen

You have no idea. Elise makes my subwoofer sings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This is my home theatre. Jurassic World.


----------



## Lord Raven

Ok invite me over when I'm there  I have been a jurassic world fan since forever..


----------



## UntilThen

You have to bring me a pair of GEC 6AS7G and popcorns. 

Doh I was trying to change the receiver volume and was wondering why nothing happen. 

Elise is now in control that's why. Use her volume knob !!!

I can't use the remote control for volume now. Lukasz take note for Mk2.

It's still hum free as a preamp. This is a very well made tube amp.

Press the button to buy now. Do it Mikelap.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm hearing sounds from my speakers that I've not heard before. What is happening?

This is too revealing but at the same time stereo sounds incredible.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Phew massive soundstage. Speakers sound like B&W Nautilus now. Holy mackerel it's amazing. Try it guys, Elise is incredible as a pre-amp. Some pictures. Sorry can't do the sound.
> 
> *Visseaux 6A6 with Tung Sol 5998   ----  bye bye headphones*


 

 I am glad you tired it. I was blown away when I plug Elise in my home system.


----------



## UntilThen

This is more than blowing me away. It's past lunch now but I just can't tear myself away to eat. !!!

Now I know for sure Elise is worth 2 grand with this preamp capability.

I've just been promoted to Regional Sales Director for Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I tried it, mine is back to a dedicated Headphone Amp device, where it shall remain 

Glad for the preamp aficionados, however.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> I tried it, mine is back to a dedicated Headphone Amp device, where it shall remain
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You were not impress? I use my HP in late night session.


----------



## UntilThen

I have to listen to both headphone and speakers simultaneously. ..it's that good.
Yes headphone when I don't want to disturb the family.
Jokes aside headphone listening is very unique. Its a studio recording session.
Definitely do both. Speakers now sound so good. Amazing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I have a general problem with my old Vista PC - cannot copy and paste pictures onto this thread, and all my fonts changed to bold Arial black. Haven't figured out how to get back the functionality and reset the font. Not giving up but haven't found a solution yet (system restore did not help).




Hello Mordy.....

Obtain an older laptop for cheap, and put the freeware Linux Mint 17 (32 bit version) on it, and your computer woes will be in the past. 
Linux Mint 17 (32 bit) runs like a scalded duck on any old laptop.

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> You were not impress? I use my HP in late night session.




My SS system is to my exact liking as is, no, I don't want Elise in that system's signal path. 

Happy for you guys, however. 

Party on!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

So good is the music I fell asleep on the couch. 

When I awoke I was startled with sound so real I forgot where I was.

Elise on the home system brings the same realism as it did on headphone. So startlingly clear and musical. Love it. !!!

For 15 years I've not heard my Axis LS88 floor stander sound this good. Shame I use them as home theatre speakers because as a stereo pair it's unbelievable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

*2x FDD20 and 5998's..@ 80 plus hours*

Rounding the corner on 80 hours on the new FDD20 and things are sounding more even. 200+ hours tube still ahead at both extremes, but this is really sounding great.

Very different from the 2031 expirence, a very different soundstage is presented.

I have really fallen in love with this set, no desire at this time to make any changes.
You have to be patient with this driver...they take an unreal long time to come around and sound their best.

Bass is really good, super deep yet articulated, not just "one-notey" bloat. The mids are very good and different from any other tube combo I have tried. They bring out different instruments, again, from other combinations, so once again, my familiar music takes on a new and fresh dimension. 

Treble is really interesting, because it (again) is different. Plenty of it there, super distinct and has a range of emphasis, probably due to recording quality.

Definitely this 2x FDD20/5998 is more forgiving of poorly mastered music. Well recorded music (of course) sounds meteoric/fantastic. But applause to the lesser mastered material, it does not come across as "booooooo" like it does In some tube combinations. 

I like this set of tubes a lot more than I thought I would through the initial 50 hours. They seemed to have blossomed all at once around 70 hours.

It's also a positive to revisit your fave 6SN7's then go back to 2x FDD20 (after lengthy break in period) to appreciate how nice they are. Not forward like 6N7G but not at all lazy and laid back like ECC31. Not "bottom bloated" like many better 6SN7's not overly bright like some tubes. They do most things extremely coherently. They are a "more analog, less analytical" C3g, a little smaller, less precise soundstage than C3g but so wonderfully non fatiguing and forgiving of lesser mastered recordings.

Do you know how sometimes you find yourself "drifting off" and not paying attention to the music that is being presented? To me, that is the early stages of fatigue. It's your brain saying "get these cans off me".

Well that does not happen with the 2x FDD20/5998 combo (for me). Everything that comes on is delightful, and enjoyed.

I do believe that just like the C3g, the FDD20 adds it's own Reverb. Something that I love. It adds more of it, than the C3g does, and this might be a factor in the forgiving nature of this pair as drivers.

Also like C3g there is this feeling that each instrument lives in its own biosphere. No need to crowd or run over each other. There is plenty of space here for all to exist happily...

Highly recommend 2x FDD20/5998 after lengthy breakin.

As always, YMMV....but I like 'em...a lot, and believe they will continue to improve.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have to listen to both headphone and speakers simultaneously. ..it's that good.
> Yes headphone when I don't want to disturb the family.
> Jokes aside headphone listening is very unique. Its a studio recording session.
> Definitely do both. Speakers now sound so good. Amazing.




You have an impressive array of gear, UT...!!

What are the smaller speakers in front of the floor standers?

.


----------



## UntilThen

Sounds like a glorious sound JV. Kudos for a detail and well written impression of these FDD20 with 5998.

Funny how I felt the same with these Visseaux 6A6. Not as forward as 6N7G or as laid back as ECC31. These descriptions of 6N7G and ECC31 should not be taken as by a big margin. It's just in comparison to the V6 that I have. So much so I'm still on it for the 2nd day running. Usually I would have swapped tubes already.
I believe there are some 6N7G that are yet to surprise us. Similarly for 6A6.
I just need more hours in a day to burn in all my tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Well blush these are home theatre gear but solid ones that also sound great in stereo. Clertainly enough juice to crank up the speakers loud. Of course they cannot compare to exotic high end stereo gear.

Small speakers which I have 3 were also made by Axis. They are LS28. Really lovely sounding. These are Australian made jewels. Those who have heard them will know of their sonic qualities.

Unfortunately the company has wind up and these are no longer available. I probably have the best condition ones that are still around.

The Definitive Technology subwoofer has not been crank up for this listening session. When I do that in tandem with the LS28 I expect to be transported to Middle Earth.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Well blush these are home theatre gear but solid ones that also sound great in stereo. Clertainly enough juice to crank up the speakers loud. Of course they cannot compare to exotic high end stereo gear.
> 
> Small speakers which I have 3 were also made by Axis. They are LS28. Really lovely sounding. These are Australian made jewels. Those who have heard them will know of their sonic qualities.
> 
> Unfortunately the company has wind up and these are no longer available. I probably have the best condition ones that are still around.




They certainly look well made and high quality. I run a Hafler 500 (250 watts per side) that has the musical concepts upgraded boards. I just replaced the power caps the other day. 

Impressed myself, in that I didn't electrocute myself. 

It's really got the growl/air/space/atriculated WALL of bass etc etc etc, going on now....hard to improve upon, what she is doing. 

All my speakers are DIY. Secret awesome sauce sprinkled in, here and there... 

Cheers to us!!

The LUCKY ones!

.


----------



## UntilThen

250 watts!!! holy moly what are you cooking. I thought my Denon AVR 3805 at 100x7 are monsters already. I can actually bi amp the LS88 which at 4 ohms are more fussy with amplification but they seem to sing fine with the Denon or the Sherwood NewCastle 945, once praised by Stereophile as being the best budget AV receiver which was all I could afford back in 1998.

diy speakers are killers. I have heard some that sound like from Mars. No doubt you don't get much sleep with all that sonic juice in your house.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 250 watts!!! holy moly what are you cooking. I thought my Denon AVR 3805 at 100x7 are momsters already. I can actually bi amp the LS88 which at 4 ohms are more fussy with amplification but they seem to sing fine with the Denon or the Sherwood NewCastle 945, once praised by Stereophile as being the best budget AV receiver which was all I could afford back in 1998.
> 
> diy speakers are killers. I have heard some that sound like from Mars. No doubt you don't get much sleep with all that sonic juice in your house.




Yes...250 real solid watts per side. Speakers can handle only about 1/2 that much. So it's not about loud, but rather clarity. Since you never go higher than....oh...10 o'clock on the preamp volume knob What we used to call "headroom" back in the day 

I call the amp "THE BEAST" it's so heavy, I never pick it up without my "back belt" on..and always always always...look around and figure out WHERE THE HECK your gonna set it down BEFORE you pick it up 

A friend of mine in Indiana sold me the amp, years ago, after he developed tinitus (poor guy) and he said it was HEAVY, but when it arrived...I could scarcely believe it. He still writes and inquires about it. I sent him photos of the recap..he was so proud. 

THE BEAST 


.


----------



## UntilThen

I can picture you as having Arnold Swarchenegger's physique. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Well the the whole purpose of my exercise in hooking up Elise as a preamp to my home system is to find out for myself what Elise can do to improve the stereo sound from a decent pair of speakers and solid amplification. Now as far as I'm concerned I have always thought that my home system stereo sound is good enough to rock my boat.
  
 However with Elise as pre-amp, the good, the bad and the ugly surface.
  
 The Good
 The sound quality is increase 10 fold at least.
  
 The Bad
I'm now tempted at what might be better in term of 'upping' the home 'hifi'. This is going to hurt and if I'm smart I should just stay with Sennheiser Orpheaus 




  
 The Ugly
 I'll be fighting with the family for the lounge space. I think I will move my bed there. !!!
  
 Be warned... don't try Elise as a preamp. It's the point of going to the dark side.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I can picture you as having Arnold Swarchenegger's physique.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You could just get one more Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> You could just get one more Elise.


 

 Are you kidding me???? One Elise is more than I can handle. 2 Elise ......2 Amazons....ummm.....I'l leave that to you young man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I just realise my ASUS sticker is still there.


----------



## UntilThen

I put on Billie Jean and the lounge exploded. Can't believe it was Elise who helped me discover what fun it is to listen to home stereo again. Amazing. Damm now these are GORGEOUS.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought the Fivre 6N7G as well. I was the only one bidding. I need to find out for myself for the same brand whether there is a difference between 6A6 and 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

Have gone back to headphone listening now. As good as the home stereo sounded with Elise as preamp, listening to HD650 on Elise is out of the world experience. I'm shaking my head in disbelief.
  
 They are both so enjoyable. How does Henryk create a tube amp that does both function superbly ? This has to be the deal of the century. At $649 seriously?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I bought the Fivre 6N7G as well. I was the only one bidding. I need to find out for myself for the same brand whether there is a difference between 6A6 and 6N7G.


 
 Looking forward to your impressions and comparing them to Neps!


----------



## UntilThen

*6A6*
  
 This tube is starting to impress me big time. Not so much the NU which I have tried on 3 occasions, each time sounding better but it's still doesn't get my attention enough to make me want to use the tube everyday. However with the Visseaux, on the 1st listen I knew it's special. By the time the song ended I was very sure I like it. I jump straight to both ECC31 and Mazda for an immediate comparison. As co-incidental as it is, both JV's impression of 2 FDD20 coincide with my impression of the Visseaux 6A6. 
  
 It hit the sweet spot between the more aggressive Mazda and the more mellow ECC31. This in effect is what the 2031 sounded to me. However after 2 days of using the V6, it became clear to me that I'm even more excited about the V6 than the 2031. This is the first time a pair of drivers gets my attention as much as the 2031 or even more.
  
 Impressions:-
 Smooth, clear, detail, soundstage, linear, imaging, speed, full sweet midrange, non fatiguing treble, mid bass impact, lower bass presence. The sum total is a very enjoyable musical treat. This is music.
  
 So i was curious and decide to dig up more info on the 6A6. I came across Thomas Mayer's post where he nominated the 6A6 as the 'Tube of the Month' for Feb. 2013. In it he describe the 6A6 in detail, including all the technical information. 6A6 exists only for a short duration before being replace by another of Thomas's favourite tube, the 6N7. What is strange though, Thomas mentioned that the 6A6 was produced by pretty much all the major vacuum tube manufacturer. He goes on to mention RCA, GE, Westinghouse, Sylvania, National Union, even Arcturus. What wasn't mentioned were Visseaux and Fivre.
  
 So far as mentioned I have only tried the NU and Visseaux. Only the Visseausx impressed me. I have 3 more NU of different construction coming and a pair of Fivre. I will be interested to know how they sound.
  
 This is Thomas Mayer thread on the 6A6. It's copyright so feel free to read but not reproduce, not even the pictures.
 http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/tube-of-month-6a6.html
  
 If you have more info to share on 6A6, please do so as I am now very keen on this tube as well as the 6N7 family. I think they sound superb on Elise. Definitely my choice tubes at the moment.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, I'm craving for a home setup after your impressions lol I don't have one. I might be a strictly car audio guy on this forum. Even headphones were a great change in my life, bought DAC and amplifier for a stupid pair of phones and now trying to upgrade everything to make them sound good, it's crazy.


----------



## UntilThen

You're about to venture into the water. Beware there are sharks circling. HiFi can be budget or astronomical in cost depending on your wallet and how big the bite has on you.
  
 Setting a budget and with careful selection and matching, you can get a pretty good sounding system. However nothing like trying it out at the shop. Even if it sounded good at the shop, doesn't mean it will sound good in your home. Acoustics and room environment I think are very important factors.
  
 If you are faint hearted I suggest you stick with headphones and Elise. You'll be spending heaps more to get the sound you have from your HD600 with your Geek and Elise.
  
 My 1st 'LoFi' system at age 20 was an all in one Mitsubishi sound system that comprise a turntable, receiver, twin cassette deck, a pair of speakers and a rack to house it. It was my greatest joy. As a 20 year old, I felt I have won the 1st prize lottery with that system. I still reminisce fondly when I think of it.
  
 I have never seen a Mitsubishi sound system since.


----------



## UntilThen

Please don't confuse me now. I want to focus on Head-Fi. Anything else is that way ----------->


----------



## Suuup

Been trying to track down a Tungsol 6N7G and a pair of Fivre 6N7G's that looks like the ones taken off of Ebay. It sure is hard to track down. No one seems to have any, and those that I think might actually have them, are unresponsive.. I won't give up though!


----------



## UntilThen

The one you link was sold for Euro 71. I bought mine for Euro 89.  I thought you gave up buying tubes.
  
 Never in my wildest dream would I know that I'd be hunting down French and Italian tubes. I started off with American then British where I like the Mullard, Brimar. Now it's the likes of Visseaux and Fivre and Mazda.
  
 Suuup if you keep your tubes well, by the time you're 50, they will be worth a fortune. Provided you haven't burn them to their lives end. So think of buying tubes as an investment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh my, the same Italian seller just send out my Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G. *Grazie !!!*


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> The one you link was sold for Euro 71. I bought mine for Euro 89.  I thought you gave up buying tubes.
> 
> Never in my wildest dream would I know that I'd be hunting down French and Italian tubes. I started off with American then British where I like the Mullard, Brimar. Now it's the likes of Visseaux and Fivre and Mazda.
> 
> ...


 
 I actually plan on doing just that.


----------



## Lord Raven

What a bad idea to have tubes and not listen to them for future profits  Maybe the solid state would replicate the exact tube sound in next few years? Then what? These heaps of tubes will be garbage. I have seen headphones that transmit signal direct to the brain, no drivers, no cables no nothing nada nein LOL Guy, listen to your tubes please and don't let these tubes drive you crazy haha..
  
 I just registered my home address to the Saudi Arabian postal service, let's bring back the tube rolling until the time solid state matures further LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

2 x Mullard 6080 Matched Pair coming my way from the UK LOL Actually my friend's way, who is going to carry them to me in December haha Just avoided lousy postal services to be sure I would not lose the pair... Your reviews better be on point guys  I have spent a lot of time reading and hunting tubes.. LOL


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> You're about to venture into the water. Beware there are sharks circling. HiFi can be budget or astronomical in cost depending on your wallet and how big the bite has on you.
> 
> Setting a budget and with careful selection and matching, you can get a pretty good sounding system. However nothing like trying it out at the shop. Even if it sounded good at the shop, doesn't mean it will sound good in your home. Acoustics and room environment I think are very important factors.
> 
> ...


 
 My first system that i bought in 1977 was a Quad 405 with a pair of JBL'S L100  and a Thorens TD160 TT  loved it and as i mentionned before is still working  my oldest has it now and he was warned to take care of it or be disowned lol .  This is he


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> My first system that i bought in 1977 was a Quad 405 with a pair of JBL'S L100  and a Thorens TD160 TT  loved it and as i mentionned before is still working  my oldest has it now and he was warned to take care of it or be disowned lol .




Beautiful gear, Mike, I remember all of it, well 
.


----------



## Lord Raven

What is he doing? Forging something?  System looks sweet, old school is still the best if properly taken care of.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> What a bad idea to have tubes and not listen to them for future profits  Maybe the solid state would replicate the exact tube sound in next few years? Then what? These heaps of tubes will be garbage. I have seen headphones that transmit signal direct to the brain, no drivers, no cables no nothing nada nein LOL Guy, listen to your tubes please and don't let these tubes drive you crazy haha..
> 
> I just registered my home address to the Saudi Arabian postal service, let's bring back the tube rolling until the time solid state matures further LOL


 
 Nono, you got it all wrong. Even if solid state were somehow able to replicate the tube sound at some point, there will be enough of a market for tubes. Just look at crazy expensive cables. Besides, people might get them for their vintage look. I have no worries.


----------



## Suuup

I have a problem, and I'm not sure what the cause is. I've noticed a very high pitched sound. The more I crank up the volume on the Elise, the higher the noise. What could be the cause? I noticed this first about 2 weeks ago, but haven't noticed since then. 15 min ago I sat down to listen to the Elise, and I noticed a faint high pitched noise (the same). When I tried cranking up the volume, it became louder, until it is almost all the way up (3-4 o'clock). Then it disappears. It returns if I turn down the Elise again. 
  
 Edit: Okay, this is crazy to me. It is the ECC31 adapters at play again. If I move my fingers closer to the adapters, the hum becomes louder. It becomes very noticeable when I have my fingers ~15 cm from the adapters. At 5 cm it becomes loud. When I touch the adapters, it becomes LOUD. How is this possible?!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I have a problem, and I'm not sure what the cause is. I've noticed a very high pitched sound. The more I crank up the volume on the Elise, the higher the noise. What could be the cause? I noticed this first about 2 weeks ago, but haven't noticed since then. 15 min ago I sat down to listen to the Elise, and I noticed a faint high pitched noise (the same). When I tried cranking up the volume, it became louder, until it is almost all the way up (3-4 o'clock). Then it disappears. It returns if I turn down the Elise again.
> 
> Edit: Okay, this is crazy to me. It is the adapters at play again. If I move my fingers closer to the adapters, the hum becomes louder. It becomes very noticeable when I have my fingers ~15 cm from the adapters. At 5 cm it becomes loud. When I touch the adapters, it becomes LOUD. How is this possible?!




Let's ground your Elise, Suuup...

Do you have any plumbing pipes, or heater pipes nearby?

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Let's ground your Elise, Suuup...
> 
> Do you have any plumbing pipes, or heater pipes nearby?
> 
> .


 
 I have a heating radiotor (is it called a radiator in English?) within 3 m. 
 Edit: Can we do it in PM?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I have a heating radiotor (is it called a radiator in English?) within 3 m.
> Edit: Can we do it in PM?




Perfect! Get some wire. Bare the ends. Partially unscrew a foot on the bottom of Elise. Put some bared wire around the foot, and screw back on tight. Other end of the wire, attach to a bare portion of copper pipe in the heating system. 

Done...grounded.

Then buy a new album to celebrate:
http://www.tinymixtapes.com/news/matmos-announces-ultimate-care-ii-album-washing-machine-sounds


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> My first system that i bought in 1977 was a Quad 405 with a pair of JBL'S L100  and a Thorens TD160 TT  loved it and as i mentionned before is still working  my oldest has it now and he was warned to take care of it or be disowned lol .  This is he


 
 What a good dad to give his son such a priceless sound system. The Quad, JBL and the Thorens are all very well regarded in those days. You've good taste Mike.


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > I have a heating radiotor (is it called a radiator in English?) within 3 m.
> ...


 
 This is one of my better sounding Hires downloads


----------



## UntilThen

I have a few of those HDCD recordings but not this Doug Macleod you show. I am listening to it now on Tidal. Love music streaming for this reason..can sample it straight away.
  
 Ummm loving Doug already. woo really nice at this time of the day. so relaxing.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> 2 x Mullard 6080 Matched Pair coming my way from the UK LOL Actually my friend's way, who is going to carry them to me in December haha Just avoided lousy postal services to be sure I would not lose the pair... Your reviews better be on point guys  I have spent a lot of time reading and hunting tubes.. LOL


 

 Raven, you need a headphone for those Mullard to sound good. Tubes can't sing by themselves.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have a few of those HDCD recordings but not this Doug Macleod you show. I am listening to it now on Tidal. Love music streaming for this reason..can sample it straight away.
> 
> Ummm loving Doug already.




Indeed, that is the cool deal. See if Tidal has the new work:

Artist: Matmos 
Album: "Ultimate Care II" 

.


----------



## UntilThen

JV what are the best adapters to get for me to try 2 FDD20? Might as well try it since I have 4 in my possession now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV what are the best adapters to get for me to try 2 FDD20? Might as well try it since I have 4 in my possession now.




I tried three times to make a non *JWEP* version and all three failed to make noise (they light up, grand)!

So the same one in your present possession...is the way to go. About $20 USD on the 'bay...only game in town, I'm afraid.
Should come WITH a *JWEP* LOL 

.


----------



## UntilThen

I took out one Visseaux 6A6 and replace with the FDD20. Wasn't surprise that it sounded lovely. What surprise me though is how alike 2 Visseaux 6A6 sounded compared with this combo. Same 5998 use in both cases.
  
 I can say affirmatively that FDD20/ECC31 or 2 Visseaux 6A6 are my favourites now. With 5998.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> I have a few of those HDCD recordings but not this Doug Macleod you show. I am listening to it now on Tidal. Love music streaming for this reason..can sample it straight away.
> 
> Ummm loving Doug already. woo really nice at this time of the day. so relaxing.


 
 and humorous also make me smile everytime i listen to it for example tunes like  MY INLAWS ARE OUTLAWS and DUBBS TALKING RELIGION BLUES priceless


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I took out one Visseaux 6A6 and replace with the FDD20. Wasn't surprise that it sounded lovely. What surprise me though is how alike 2 Visseaux 6A6 sounded compared with this combo. Same 5998 use in both cases.




Spooky, how well that FDD20 "mixes" with other tubes, to make *magic*!!!



.


----------



## UntilThen

It is a special tube. Looks like it came from some submarines or weapons guided missiles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 And my ASUS sticker is getting more ridiculous looking by the minute. H1 needs eye patches just looking at it.
  
 Gone - sticker is removed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It is a special tube. Looks like it came from some submarines or weapons guided missiles :bigsmile_face:
> 
> And my ASUS sticker is getting more ridiculous looking by the minute. H1 needs eye patches just looking at it.
> 
> Gone - sticker is removed.




Yes....saw that *JWEP* comment on the sticker by H1 LOL..
I have enough white reflective thin car pinstripe, to outfit the next 700,000 Elise's volume knobs.... 

And indeed, wonder what the story is with the handsome blue-tinged glass in the FDD20? Unlike any other! H1 did find that picture of FDD20's being used in Aircraft during WWII in radio transmitting gear. One image had 4 FDD20's in a row, no grey paint seen. The one on RadioMuseum is gorgeous, too.

.


----------



## UntilThen

I will do a photoshoot of 6 FDD20 when I get them and use them on the Christmas tree.


----------



## UntilThen

Mike, now that you've given your son the Quad, JBL and Thorens, did you get yourself this?


----------



## Suuup

I have bad news I'm afraid. The grounding did absolutely nothing for the hum. I'm not sure what to do next.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I have bad news I'm afraid. The grounding did absolutely nothing for the hum. I'm not sure what to do next.


 
 Wow what's happening to your Elise? Mine is absolutely working like a lamp. There cannot be a better performing unit. Touch wood many times !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Wow what's happening to your Elise? Mine is absolutely working like a lamp. There cannot be a better performing unit. Touch wood many times !!!


 
 It's not the Elise, it's the chinese adapters for the ECC31. Same as yours, I believe, except for the hum.


----------



## UntilThen

My black el cheapo adapters are working fine but I have a gold plated pair coming. I suggest you get them to send replacements. This is unacceptable. I have a lot of adapters from xulingmrs and they are all working fine although the ECC31 ones are a bit slanty.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> My black el cheapo adapters are working fine but I have a gold plated pair coming. I suggest you get them to send replacements. This is unacceptable. I have a lot of adapters from xulingmrs and they are all working fine although the ECC31 ones are a bit slanty.


 
 He told me about 3 weeks ago that he'd send a new pair.. I'm yet to receive them.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> He told me about 3 weeks ago that he'd send a new pair.. I'm yet to receive them.


 

 Push it. You can't let this go. 3 weeks is unacceptable. Tell them if they don't send the replacement NOW you'll launch a return request. No shipping will take more than 3 weeks.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Push it. You can't let this go. 3 weeks is unacceptable. Tell them if they don't send the replacement NOW you'll launch a return request.


 
 Just sent him a message. This might be what's been giving me terrible headaches for the past couple of weeks.


----------



## UntilThen

Buy another pair from another seller. This is killing your enjoyment. I can assure you those adapters are very important given your ECC31 and all the 6N7G uses it. You need a working pair by hook or by crook.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Buy another pair from another seller. This is killing your enjoyment. I can assure you those adapters are very important given your ECC31 and all the 6N7G uses it. You need a working pair by hook or by crook.


 
 The golden ones?


----------



## UntilThen

Yes this from xulingmrs. Don't skimp on adapter. You've paid a lot for those tubes. Get the best adapters you can.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Indeed, that is the cool deal. See if Tidal has the new work:
> 
> Artist: Matmos
> Album: "Ultimate Care II"
> ...


 

 JV, what's all this funny sound.  Interesting though. 
  
 Tidal don't have that album. I'm listening to their other albums.


----------



## UntilThen

Can you believe it? I just plug my HD650 straight into NAD D1050 and it sounded nearly as good. !!!
  
 No.... not nearly as good...no way


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Mike, now that you've given your son the Quad, JBL and Thorens, did you get yourself this?


 
 Lol actually i stayed with old gear nice and cheap apartment living has its disadvantages unfortunately


----------



## UntilThen

^^^ I see vintage KEF reference speakers, Pioneer receiver and some gorgeous headphones.
  
 I want to come to your apartment.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Suuup could also try wrapping his current adapters in copper foil to shield them. If he has any wireless gear near the Elise...move it away...


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > He told me about 3 weeks ago that he'd send a new pair.. I'm yet to receive them.
> ...


 
 Your lucky to Montreal its  4 to 5 weeks


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup could also try wrapping his current adapters in copper foil to shield them. If he has any wireless gear near the Elise...move it away...


 
 Wireless doesn't affect JV. I've wireless going around me everywhere within 3 feet. Bluetooth, wireless telephone, even place my mobile phone next to Elise and no problem.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Your lucky to Montreal its  4 to 5 weeks


 

 Serious? It takes max 2 weeks to Sydney. Even Elise took less than 2 weeks from Poland to Sydney. Canada is too far


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> Yes this from xulingmrs. Don't skimp on adapter. You've paid a lot for those tubes. Get the best adapters you can.


 
 I ordered those as backup for the other pair of adapters i have and a similar pair for my 5z3 rectifier they look good i like those  sockets.got them at SUZIER at auction $9.00 for the pair only bidder.


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> I ordered those as backup for the other pair of adapters i have and a similar pair for my 5z3 rectifier they look good i like those  sockets.got them at SUZIER at auction $9.00 for the pair only bidder.


 
 Do you have a link for that?


----------



## UntilThen

Didn't know they have auction for adapters. I thought it's always buy out.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I take back my words. The NAD D1050 amp sounds no where near Elise. Not even by a mile. Now that I plug in to Elise again, the difference is night and day. You have to listen to Elise to know the difference.
  
 I've Elise for 15 days now. That's 105 hours easily. It's very nice now. I think 80 hours you'll hit peak. That's my guess.


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered those as backup for the other pair of adapters i have and a similar pair for my 5z3 rectifier they look good i like those  sockets.got them at SUZIER at auction $9.00 for the pair only bidder.
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/usr/suzier.inc                 It was the first time i noticed an auction what i see now is MAKE OFFER look closely who knows


----------



## UntilThen

Yes corrections. I got my ECC31 adapters from suzier. However they were the Tower of Piza ones although sound wise no problem.
  
 All my other adapters are from xulingmrs.


----------



## Suuup

Riddle me this. I cannot hear the high pitched noise anymore. I've no idea what caused this. Have I just gradually become used to it?


----------



## nephilim

I hear increasing hum the closer my hand approaches the black plastic adapters from xulingmrs. It's loudest when I touch them which I would not have expected from a plastic part. Anyway, no big issue as I usually stay away from the tubes.


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> I hear increasing hum the closer my hand approaches the black plastic adapters from xulingmrs. It's loudest when I touch them which I would not have expected from a plastic part. Anyway, no big issue as I usually stay away from the tubes.


 
 Exactly the same!


----------



## MIKELAP

Just received from XULINGMRS my backup pair of ECC31 adapters they look to be of very good quality and they only took 11 bussiness days to get here its a miracle and a first .lol.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> And my ASUS sticker is getting more ridiculous looking by the minute. H1 needs eye patches just looking at it.
> 
> Gone - sticker is removed.


 
  
 Thank You, Lord.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Thank You, Lord.




LOL....now we need *JWEP's* just to even be able look at it, on the 'net 

.


----------



## jerick70

oskari said:


> Thank You, Lord.


 

 Yes it was pretty hideous.  Thank you for removing it.


----------



## MIKELAP

Got about 30 hours on the RCA 6N7G i just put the ecc31 back on whats strikes me ofhand is the bass more than the RCA thats good because sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you dont heard that somewhere !


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> http://www.ebay.com/usr/suzier.inc                 It was the first time i noticed an auction what i see now is MAKE OFFER look closely who knows




Mike are you talking about these adapters? I think we both decided to get these together. Or should I order the gold ones? 

I received these but don't have ECC31 tubes or headphones to test them yet. What a misery. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/ECC31-to-ECC33-6SN7-Tube-socket-adapter-Suzier-E2-2PCS-/281787407615?nav=SEARCH


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/usr/suzier.inc                 It was the first time i noticed an auction what i see now is MAKE OFFER look closely who knows
> ...


 
 Those are the ones i started with they work fine .  but i just receive these below they look nice


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Thank You, Lord.


 

 LOL.
  
 I got up in a daze then I read this and I roll on the floor laughing. You're so funny Oskari.


----------



## Lord Raven

I would appreciate if you put a Gold knob to Elise  
  
 The adapters I got from China, one would definitely be slanted, I can see it. Other is fine, I think I should already ask for a replacement. What do you guys suggest? Can't compromise of aesthetics when it comes to beautifully crafted Elise


----------



## UntilThen

Don't you like this?


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I hear increasing hum the closer my hand approaches the black plastic adapters from xulingmrs. It's loudest when I touch them which I would not have expected from a plastic part. Anyway, no big issue as I usually stay away from the tubes.


 

 Are you guys E.T. or what. I just put my fingers to those powered on adapters and I hear NADA.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Are you guys E.T. or what. I just put my fingers to those powered on adapters and I hear NADA.




I can MAKE mine hum a little by placing my hands ON the adapters.

i think UT is *actually* deaf...

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I can MAKE mine hum a little by placing my hands ON the adapters.
> 
> i think UT is *actually* deaf...
> 
> .


 

 Seriously I'm grabbing those adapters now and I still hear nothing. I really need to thank Lukasz that my unit is totally hum free.
  
 HUMPHREY !!!
  
 See told ya there's no hum.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL I like Pica Tower, might want to visit it some day but Pica Tubes? Nono..


----------



## Lord Raven

Tonight's playlist  Amazing album, can't believe my laptop speakers LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, what do you say about this single tube? Philco 6AS7G - 1959 68/68


----------



## JazzVinyl

if you dig Ambient music:

https://soundcloud.com/spectrumspools

.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Guys, what do you say about this single tube? Philco 6AS7G - 1959 68/68


 
 Looks like an RCA equivalent to me.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Got about 30 hours on the RCA 6N7G i just put the ecc31 back on whats strikes me ofhand is the bass more than the RCA thats good because sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you dont heard that somewhere !


 
 Thanks Mike.
  
 I think we have a general consensus on the ECC31 vs 6N7G (USA made) sound now. ECC31 bass is supreme, all others must bow down. It is more mellow, relaxing and discrete compared to wild cousin 6N7G who is more upfront, pronounced on the upper bass.


----------



## UntilThen

Today I'll try Elise as a preamp again on the home theatre in stereo mode.
  
 What I heard yesterday was a holographic sound from my bookshelf LS28. I have never heard it to sound this FULL and glorious. The same tube warm is transferred down the chain. The soundstage even expanded to my amazement. The speakers are already spaced out quite far apart as you can see from the photo I posted.
  
 Playing a Chesky CD of high definition recording, I heard things I've not heard from these speakers and my Sherwood receiver before. Elise has made the sound so much more enjoyable. It's unbelievable a tube pre-amp can make so much difference. I bought all my gear new in 1998, enjoyed it in home theatre mode but I was primarily interested in stereo. It's a compromise trying to please the 'children' and myself then. I've not upgraded since then. I bought the Axis speakers, all 5, from a co-owner friend of Axis at cost price. The LS88 are made of rosewood, not wood laminated like the LS28. I bought the Denon 2 years later to beef up the amplification. Over the years, my interest in them vaned and I listen less and less to them. Even move onto car audio 4 years ago which I have also abandoned now. I am onto Head-Fi now and will probably last till the sunset years.
  
 It is Elise that make me want to explore all my music on the Axis speakers again. It is that enjoyable. If you're thinking of giving your average stereo a big lift, get Elise as a preamp.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Should be fileable. (?)


 
  
 Hi Oskari...a reply at last (can't keep up with this thread, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Anyway, I too thought I could salvage something...but this 2-part epoxy resin is _real_ tough stuff! And as this method of adapting results in extremely tight space for working (just ask JV!), any attempt to 'reverse engineer' causes massive destruction...so it's far easier to cut one's losses and try another! (Thank goodness my GEC/Osrams don't need any such treatment, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> (can't keep up with this thread, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah H1 you're here. This guard on sentry duty can take a break now.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, if I buy another Elise, can I go balanced mode with a future DAC?  Or a Dual mono with my future home audio? LOL 
  
 What do you think @hypnos1
  
 I did this in my car audio, all my six channels are in dual mono configuration and it gives the 100% stereo separation. I have a Dual Mono Direct Focal Limited Edition amplifier that is stereo, best part of my system, plays the midbass drivers. Then there is a pair of same amplifiers, Arc Audio Special Edition SE 2075, I am running them in dual mono configuration either, one amplifier is running the tweeters and midrange of left side, other other is playing the tweeter and midrange of right side.
  
 Wild thoughts before I sleep  
  
 Elise MK2 should definitely/must/certainly have balanced mode, I will press the buy button with eyes closed!!!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Guys, if I buy another Elise, can I go balanced mode with a future DAC?  Or a Dual mono with my future home audio? LOL
> 
> I did this in my car audio, all my six channels are in dual mono configuration and it gives the 100% stereo separation. I have a Dual Mono Direct Focal Limited Edition amplifier that is stereo, best part of my system, plays the midbass drivers. Then there is a pair of same amplifiers, Arc Audio Special Edition SE 2075, I am running them in dual mono configuration either, one amplifier is running the tweeters and midrange of left side, other other is playing the tweeter and midrange of right side.
> 
> ...


 

 You've a top end car audio Raven. I know all those items well and in those setup you have, you should be living in the car. I hope you have it insured well.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You've a top end car audio Raven. I know all those items well and in those setup you have, you should be living in the car. I hope you have it insured well.


 
 Brother, next year I am going to replace my DSP, it will be retired after 5 years of successful services  I'm getting some German Helix DSP PRO, the EISA award winning DSP. My current DSP is also award winner, JBL MS8 with Logic 7 tailored for cars.
  
 I live in my car actually  Recently, last week, I have driver 3000 KMs. The sound is so good that I am always blown away by the SQ, I have come to a point where if something does not sound good, I blame the recording, not my system.
  
 Focal Utopia system is such detailed and revealing audio gear that you don't believe your ears most of the time. If you bring your music to my car, you'll be surprised that what have you been missing in life all this time LOL  This is that good, it can make you cum through your ear. Car audio talk!!! LMAO


----------



## UntilThen

I know. My pro car installer has the Focal Utopia 3 ways in his car with the Focal amps and Audison Bit One. It's an incredible sound.

But there is no way that will beat the Sennhesier Orpheus.....or will it? 

Don't tease me anymore. I am still on planet earth with Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I know. My pro car installer has the Focal Utopia 3 ways in his car with the Focal amps and Audison Bit One. It's an incredible sound.
> 
> But there is no way that will beat the Sennhesier Orpheus.....or will it?
> 
> ...


 
 Recently you mentioned Chesky Records, Chesky developed the binaural recordings for headphone listening. If Sennheiser Orpheus plays a binaural recording then I am afraid it would create a black hole in audiophile's world  LOL
  
 I am a strong believer that headphones can never ever replace your stereo sound system  One reason of buying Elise was to use it as a pre-amp, and I will incorporate it soon!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Don't ever be sure of that. Nothing beats the Orpheus period. It has Michelangelo's rock !!! 
  
 Anyway today's listening sessions with Elise as preamp..from a selection of my precious CDs.


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,

I have binaural recordings on Atlantic Records with Wilbur de Paris from 1955. Chesky records was founded in 1988.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> I have binaural recordings on Atlantic Records with Wilbur de Paris from 1955. Chesky records was founded in 1988.


 
 Everytime i listen to that binaural recording that came out 1 year or 2 ago when he is in this church and while walking towards me you might say he's  talking until he's next to me  and whispers in my ears ,now that's creepy  get's to me everytime lol


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> I have binaural recordings on Atlantic Records with Wilbur de Paris from 1955. Chesky records was founded in 1988.


 
 WOW Mordy, bro, you're doing it right  Can you mention the exact name, I will try to look it up, links would be welcomed.
  
 I just made an order of 20 x GE and or HP 6AS7GA tubes, wish me luck Mordy, and your reviews be right about these tubes or I will die of being broke for the rest of my life LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> Everytime i listen to that binaural recording that came out 1 year or 2 ago when he is in this church and while walking towards me you might say he's  talking until he's next to me  and whispers in my ears ,now that's creepy  get's to me everytime lol


 
  
 I have a recording where someone cuts your hair and it is trippy AF LOL You feel as if he would cut your ear right off..


----------



## UntilThen

Why don't you get an actual haircut. That's real.

Thanks Mike, I'll check out that CD.

Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G on duty today. I am in tears.


----------



## UntilThen

Mor  pictures - *Mazda 6N7G / Chatham 6AS7G*
  
_Elise is beautiful._


----------



## UntilThen

In honor of the legendary lorspeaker, tomorrow I'll hook up Elise as a preamp to my Darkvoice 336se and listen through HD650 and HE560.

lorspeaker has said that this will give a soccer field soundstage. Let's see. Barcelona here I come.


----------



## aqsw

Wow, I remember having TOL stereo sytems when i was younger. 
One of the best memories was my daughter (she was about 4 yers old)grabbing my hand every day when I came home from work.
We had to go downstirs and put Riverboat Fantasy on by David Wilcox.

Fast forward 20 years and at her wedding, I'm waiting for the father and bride dance thinking a nice waltz.
Surprized the hell out of me. Here we were dancing to Riverboat Fantasy again. I will never forget those couple minutes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

....Keep 'em glowin'...


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats aqsw. Father of the Bride. As a dad I share your sentiments. Who can forget their little girl holding their hands. Down memory lane we go.


----------



## MIKELAP

Time to Rock !


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Time to Rock !




LOL...

It's great to be young! 

.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL I crack up on that video.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Congrats aqsw. Father of the Bride. As a dad I share your sentiments. Who can forget their little girl holding their hands. Down memory lane we go.



She was always very impatient, as she didn't undertand it took k about 5 minutes for those huge monoblocks to heat up.. I sold my whole system soon after, as I was contrained by the wife. I undertood though, as blaring music with young children isn't ideal. That's what she told me anyways?


----------



## UntilThen

Especially when you're playing Smoke On The Water non stop. Who would blame your wife restraining you. No wonder you're delegated to headphones now.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Especially when you're playing Smoke On The Water non stop. Who would blame your wife restraining you. No wonder you're


----------



## UntilThen

I always knew I had a twin. Just didn't know where he is until now.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Especially when you're playing Smoke On The Water non stop. Who would blame your wife restraining you. No wonder you're delegated to headphones now.





Try this again.

We have never met, but you know me very well !


----------



## JazzVinyl

Got Bass?

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5BkCp4KfZ0[/VIDEO]

.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Got Bass?
> 
> [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5BkCp4KfZ0[/VIDEO]
> 
> .




Vics the man when it comes to electric bass !


----------



## UntilThen

I'm sitting midway through Dark Side of the Moon. I'm hearing everything as the recording engineers intended.

This sort of details is amazing. What a blast from Elise as preamp.


----------



## MIKELAP

See these              http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARA-COPPIA-FDD20-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-valvole-similari-alla-6N7-NOS-Rohre-Valve-/252163108585?hash=item3ab617aee9


----------



## UntilThen

It's the same as what we have except these have wordings and clear glass. Same beauty.
If I didn't have 6 already these would have been nice.
Ha same seller as the one I bought my Fivre 6N7G and Visseaux 6A6.
He has a lot of nice stuff. Good seller. I like him though I don't speak a word of Italian.
Same guy whom JV bought his Joybringer from.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> See these              http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARA-COPPIA-FDD20-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-valvole-similari-alla-6N7-NOS-Rohre-Valve-/252163108585?hash=item3ab617aee9




That's really cool...! I also believe they are the same as the ones we have - even see the beautiful blue tinged glass!

Phillips in Milan Italy is supposed to be the maker of the FDD20, this one certainly appears to follow suit with the Phillips name on there.

Nice find, Mike!!


.


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > See these              http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARA-COPPIA-FDD20-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-valvole-similari-alla-6N7-NOS-Rohre-Valve-/252163108585?hash=item3ab617aee9
> ...


 
 i bought a pair of NR73 /1285 from this seller


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> i bought a pair of NR73 /1285 from this seller




The *Joybringers* also bought from this seller. His package to me was amazingly thin on bubble wrap! It was truly remarkable they made it here, intact!

*Joybringers* = Visseaux 6N7G from the 1940's

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The *Joybringers* also bought from this seller. His package to me was amazingly thin on bubble wrap! It was truly remarkable they made it here, intact!
> 
> *Joybringers* = Visseaux 6N7G from the 1940's
> 
> .




Same my Visseaux 6a6 was thinnly wrapped in an envelope. It made safely to Australia though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Same my Visseaux 6a6 was thinnly wrapped in an envelope. It made safely to Australia though.




Yeah man, seller has good product but you would think he could package a little more safely - he has been lucky so far, I guess..


----------



## JazzVinyl

Listening to my FDD20 pair...they have on the velvet gloves tonight....!!! So fine, so careful...

Love knowing where my volume is set, now, too


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hey Mordy...

We're all waiting to hear more listening impressions on your 1.5 amp current draw driver tube....



..


----------



## UntilThen

*ATTENTION COMRADES *





  
*iMac > NAD D1050 (DAC) > Elise (Preamp) > Darkvoice 336se (Amp) > HD650 / HE560*
  
_Tubes used:-  Elise - Visseaux 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G ; Darkvoice 336se - Marconi 6N7 with Tung Sol 5998_
  
 I decided to try Elise as a preamp to another headphone amp and out to my headphone. @Lorspeaker spoke about how this would be amazing in the original thread when Elise was in her infancy.
  
 So as you can see from the photo I hooked them up, heart pumping in case it blows up. 
  
 The sound was a conversion experience. I saw a bolt of lightning descended on me and music course through my veins and arteries. So good was the sound I sat listening with my mouth wide open, stunned literally. It's not just the tremendous soundstage that stretch around the block, it's the microscopic details that dart and float from my left ear to the right. At the same time, Renne Olstead sang right into my brains. I was about to freak out.
  
 Ok calm down. Collect my thoughts and write sensibly. In a word, you need to try this. It's an insane experience. There was a very very slight feedback hum. First time hum is in my vocabulary. I think there's one too many tubes there. It did not distract at all in the listening session. Too faint to really notice. Secondly with the planar magnetic, HE560 sounded a bit meshed at high volume in this setup. HD650 was perfectly fine. I cannot explain why. Another thing is I have to turn up both Elise and the DV volume together to get increase in volume. Anyone has an explanation for this? 
  
 I have the DAC RCA out to the RCA input of Elise; Elise RCA output to the RCA input of DV336se. That's how it's connected. I have iMac connected to NAD via USB.
  
 You will never get the same experience listening to Elise alone. Try this and be shocked.
  
@Liu Junyuan, this is now a compelling reason to get Elise. Use her as preamp into the La Figaro and it will be even more shocking than what I have here.
  
 My HD650 feels like it has the added revealing attributes of the HD800 as well as retaining the HD650 musicality. 
  
 Lukasz, try this yourself. You'll be shocked. 
  

  
 With the setup as it is, I was able to A/B by plugging from Elise headphone jack to Darkvoice 336se jack. 
 From DV336se jack, the soundstage is definitely bigger, wider, deeper. There's more micro details and music seems big, huge, speaker like. There's airs between strings and drums pound with impact. Lower bass resonates you. There's more reverb, it's full on.
 From Elise jack, sound is cleaner and more precise. This is where Elise shines. She's incredibly polish and crystal clear. I still feel this is a better sound. I think the output through DV336se is let down by the latter's more muddy sound. Perhaps with a more accomplished amp, it will be a different story.
  
 I have not done enough testing with various tubes combination on both preamp and amp to make a judgement call. It is definitely a striking difference though on first listen. So guys go for it and tell me what you think.
  
*Final thoughts*
 After an extended listen to Elise (A) alone and Elise with DV336se (B) here are my final thoughts:-
 Even though B impressed on first listen with an increased soundstage and more full on sound, I felt A is more precise with excellent control and finesse. 'A' transient response is more precise, sharp and quick. With the slight induced hum on B it's another reason for my dislike. Overall I don't think it's worth the trouble to add another unit to the chain. 'A' is build firstly as a top class headphone tube amp and it fulfils that role. I really cannot think of a better reason to add another headphone tube amp to that chain. Elise is perfect already.


----------



## JazzVinyl

..[/quote]





untilthen said:


> *iMac > NAD D1050 (DAC) > Elise (Preamp) > Darkvoice 336se (Amp) > HD650 / HE560*
> 
> My HD650 feels like it has the added revealing attributes of the HD800 as well as retaining the HD650 musicality.




Wow!! What trip!!

Talk about tube rolling opps!!!

I vote Mullard 6080/FDD20 for the DV 336 se!!!

Endless endless endless!!!

!!!

Should have kept my LD MK IV!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow!! What trip!!
> 
> Talk about tube rolling opps!!!
> 
> ...


 
 YES buy back the LD MK4 or beg borrow or steal another tube amp. I ain't sleeping tonight !!!
  
 Precisely there's endless rolling possibilities now. It will be a nightmare.
  
 After an extended listen to Elise (A) alone and Elise with DV336se (B) here are my final thoughts:-
 Even though B impressed on first listen with an increased soundstage and more full on sound, I felt A is more precise with excellent control and finesse. A transient response is more precise, sharp and quick. With the slight induced hum on B it's another reason for my dislike. Overall I don't think it's worth the trouble to add another unit to the chain. A is build firstly as a top class headphone tube amp and it fulfils that role. I really cannot think of a better reason to add another tube amp to that chain. Elise is perfect already.


----------



## Lorspeaker

oh u heard the expansion/stretchg of the soundstage? 

..Its an alchemy of diff tubes then.. to get the clarity n transcient response u desire
In the total chain...is it "worth it" ? ....to soundstage addicts, probably.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> oh u heard the expansion/stretchg of the soundstage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL to soundstage addicts I'll simply say go and listen to your HiFi and use Elise as a preamp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No you're right. There's more to explore and experiment here. To the adventurous I'd say by all means go and try it and tube roll to your hearts content.


----------



## Suuup

It seems I have a package waiting from Italy.. Not sure what it is. Will pick it up later today.


----------



## UntilThen

Tidal 
 Album: Sweet Emotions - New Lounge Set
 Artist: Various artists
 2014
  
 nice music...
  
 Was trying to burn in my drivers by listening to music. Killing 2 birds with one stone. Thought I will preserve my better power tubes so I use the GE 6AS7G and was pleasantly surprise they sound good.
  
 Rolling in the NU 6A6 now and again surprise by how good it sound with the above album. I have severely underestimated the NU. These are great sounding tubes. That makes both sets of 6A6 tubes that I like.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> It seems I have a package waiting from Italy.. Not sure what it is. Will pick it up later today.


 

 You should know what you bought by looking at your purchase history.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You should know what you bought by looking at your purchase history.


 
 Yea I just checked. It's my pair of 6C8G.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup, how many hours did you clock on your Elise. I've done 112 approximately.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup, how many hours did you clock on your Elise. I've done 112 approximately.


 
 Oh boy, I have no idea. Probably around 400?


----------



## Suuup

In other news, I have finally found a good place to buy a Tung Sol 6N7G to match mine. It will probably be a couple of weeks though, as they're quite busy and understaffed at the moment. Maybe he has pretty Fivres too?


----------



## UntilThen

I like the 6N7 and 6A6 family of tubes. You should be happy with the Tung Sol 6N7G. I don't need anymore tubes. Enough to keep me happy.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL...
> 
> It's great to be young!
> 
> .




LOL I thought I am the youngest here..


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> In other news, I have finally found a good place to buy a Tung Sol 6N7G to match mine. It will probably be a couple of weeks though, as they're quite busy and understaffed at the moment. Maybe he has pretty Fivres too?




I might try Mazda 6N7 or the 6N7G tube types, where did you find it?


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I might try Mazda 6N7 or the 6N7G tube types, where did you find it?


 
 I'm actually not sure where it is. I sent out a ton of emails, and I can't tell who is who. All I know is, they guys name is Johannes.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I'm actually not sure where it is. I sent out a ton of emails, and I can't tell who is who. All I know is, they guys name is Johannes.


 
 Give me his email address man  I will not buy it all, trust me..!!!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Give me his email address man  I will not buy it all, trust me..!!!


 
 You can have it when I'm done buying from him. I might get some more tubes first! Haha


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> You can have it when I'm done buying from him. I might get some more tubes first! Haha


 
 haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will have to buy from you in that case..


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 We could arrange that


----------



## UntilThen

Don't you guys like the stock tubes? You have expensive taste.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Don't you guys like the stock tubes? You have expensive taste.


 
 I'm running 1x stock power tube. How about that?


----------



## UntilThen

I went back to the stock tube for 30 mins just and I couldn't stand it anymore. All the sparkles gone. What happen to the details and clarity?
 It's gone with the wind.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I went back to the stock tube for 30 mins just and I couldn't stand it anymore. All the sparkles gone. What happen to the details and clarity?
> It's gone with the wind.


 
 Yep, sounds about right. I only use it for Dire Straits.


----------



## UntilThen

That's ironic - stock tubes leads to dire straits


----------



## MIKELAP

jazzvinyl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i bought a pair of NR73 /1285 from this seller
> ...


 
 Well mine didnt make it intact one tube was cracked in package was not happy ,contacted him and luckily he had another that he sent to me right away but that could of been prevented i dont understand this YOU SELL TUBES LEARN HOW TO PACK THEM . Dont they know those packages are thrown all over the place and they lose money on top of that  ?


----------



## UntilThen

Wow a cracked ECC31. I never had any tubes crack on arrival. Was the packaging bad? Some of my sellers over packed the tubes. I had to cut through layers of foam and a few boxes to get to the tubes. It's like a treasure hunt.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's ironic - stock tubes leads to dire straits


 
 LOL that is funny. Anyway, I really like it with Dire Straits, but only Dire Straits. 
  
 I have changed out my one JAN 6080 with one Mullard 6080, with a notable increase in clarity, precision and rythm. Does it sound a bit muddy? Yes. But that is okay for Dire Straits - That is what I think at least. I'd describe Dire Straits as a 'hyggeligt' band. It's a Danish term that, unfortunately, has no translation.


----------



## Suuup

mikelap said:


> Well mine didnt make it intact one tube was cracked in package was not happy ,contacted him and luckily he had another that he sent to me right away but that could of been prevented i dont understand this YOU SELL TUBES LEARN HOW TO PACK THEM . Dont they know those packages are thrown all over the place and they lose money on top of that  ?


 
 Aww, that stings. Now there is one less ECC31 in the world. It'll only be going downhill from here. Glad he has another atleast. What is that red text? Could you take a picture of that?


----------



## UntilThen

You don't need expensive tubes to get clarity. Try a pair of NU 6A6 with even GE 6AS7G and it's good.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Well mine didnt make it intact one tube was cracked in package was not happy ,contacted him and luckily he had another that he sent to me right away but that could of been prevented i dont understand this YOU SELL TUBES LEARN HOW TO PACK THEM . Dont they know those packages are thrown all over the place and they lose money on top of that  ?




You would think, Mike! It isn't rocket science!! Hope you get the replacement quick and intact!

I once bought a Harmon Kardon amp from an Ebay seller...the package somehow survived the shipment to actually arrive...and one single sheet of blank 8.5 x 11 inch printer paper...was the entirety of the "Packing materials" used!!

!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Wow NU 6A6 with GE 6AS7G is so good sounding. How much does this cost?
  
 Pair of NU 6A6 = $15
 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters (2) = $38.46
  
 Pair of GE 6AS7G = $27
  
 There you go. Affordable very good sound guaranteed . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Eye patches are extras.
  
 This set - I think it's good looking


----------



## MIKELAP

suuup said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Well mine didnt make it intact one tube was cracked in package was not happy ,contacted him and luckily he had another that he sent to me right away but that could of been prevented i dont understand this YOU SELL TUBES LEARN HOW TO PACK THEM . Dont they know those packages are thrown all over the place and they lose money on top of that  ?
> ...


 
 I tried reading with a jewelers magnifying glass but the red print is not legible but just left of the red print there a partial number etched in the tube and what i can see is writen like this 1029   1                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1M/                                     but on the base of the other tube his a date  in that same red ink     DEC   7 65 or something like that .By the way this happened awhile back when it all started  for this tube


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> Well mine didnt make it intact one tube was cracked in package was not happy ,contacted him and luckily he had another that he sent to me right away but that could of been prevented i dont understand this YOU SELL TUBES LEARN HOW TO PACK THEM . Dont they know those packages are thrown all over the place and they lose money on top of that  ?


 
 Ouch!!! Check if it is still working, but before that put glue in the crack


----------



## UntilThen

I wouldn't say I prefer the ECC31 over the 6A6 and some 6N7G. I put them on par. That's sad considering how much more the ECC31 cost.
 Your opinions may differ.


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Well mine didnt make it intact one tube was cracked in package was not happy ,contacted him and luckily he had another that he sent to me right away but that could of been prevented i dont understand this YOU SELL TUBES LEARN HOW TO PACK THEM . Dont they know those packages are thrown all over the place and they lose money on top of that  ?
> ...


 
 Funny man. if its cracked its toast and it lost its vacuum you will see white stuff in the tube( first picture) but not to be confused with this flashing (second picture )


----------



## UntilThen

This is a better packaging. These goes inside a box padded with bubble wrap sheets and foam pellets. The box is good thick card box.
  
 Nothing beats the 5998 from Vietnam though. It came in a plastic food container.


----------



## UntilThen

This is my blown up 5998. The chrome top is gone. In it's place are the white powdery stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

Massdrop has the DT990 Premium 600ohms for $219. Here's what it says about the HP.
  
*Sound Design*
 _All of these factors are great, but the real advantage of these headphones is the sound quality. The sonic reproduction is the cornerstone of Beyerdynamic's design and comes through with forward sounding highs and punchy rich bass response. Detail and soundstage are also among the best available at this price point. Have you ever noticed John and Ringo whispering in the background of a Beatles outro? Have you ever listened to a pair of headphones that let you pick out every instrument in Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture? No? Sounds like you could use some Beyerdynamic DT990s._


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Massdrop has the DT990 Premium 600ohms for $219. Here's what it says about the HP.
> 
> *Sound Design*
> _All of these factors are great, but the real advantage of these headphones is the sound quality. The sonic reproduction is the cornerstone of Beyerdynamic's design and comes through with forward sounding highs and punchy rich bass response. Detail and soundstage are also among the best available at this price point. Have you ever noticed John and Ringo whispering in the background of a Beatles outro? Have you ever listened to a pair of headphones that let you pick out every instrument in Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture? No? Sounds like you could use some Beyerdynamic DT990s._


 
 They're really good headphones. I have the 250 ohm model, and I really like them. Unfortunately, I sat on them a few days after I got them, so they got bent out of shape. Still sounds good, but I cannot get the headclamp right. A friend of mine bought the matching pair, and his are extremely comfortable compared to mine. Not that mine isn't comfortable, but the 990's are really special. He's not even into good headphones, but he asked me what headphones were the most comfortable, so that's why I pointed him in that direction.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Massdrop has the DT990 Premium 600ohms for $219. Here's what it says about the HP.
> 
> *Sound Design*
> 
> ...




I love my DT-990 600 ohm'ers! Treble does not seem "forward" to me...but I am not so young...so there ya go 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I wouldn't say I prefer the ECC31 over the 6A6 and some 6N7G. I put them on par. That's sad considering how much more the ECC31 cost.
> Your opinions may differ.




I will finally have a pair of ECC31 soon.

And agree the price for them is overblown, just because they are well known "quality sounding tubes"...

.


----------



## Suuup

Just rolled in the last Mullard to make it a pair. Listening to Agnes Obel now. It is wonderful. Her voice is so delicate and detailed. WOW.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Just rolled in the last Mullard to make it a pair. Listening to Agnes Obel now. It is wonderful. Her voice is so delicate and detailed. WOW.




Mullard Magic!


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,

Tried "hyggeligt" on Google Translate - came back "cozy." Tried Swedish "hyggligt" - came back "reasonable."

Maybe a hyggeligt band is Danish slang today. When I grew up in Sweden a hygglig person meant a fine, reasonable and honest person.

Hi UT,
Thanks for discouraging the two amp experiment - one less thing to do LOL.

Re the 6AS7GA tubes that I have been extolling for a while - glad you like them! In addition to GE, Sylvania made them as well; Some Syls are rebranded as RCA. They all have gray 
Bakelite bottoms, and better sounding ones have copper rods.

Somebody had said that the copper rods are supports and don't effect the sound .Last night I realized that the HP (nee GE) 6AS7GA tubes I am using have copper rods that are the heaters - all three of them. One heater rod on each side, and one in the middle. Those fireplaces got to do something! The Syls have the same construction,






Mikelap and JV,

Did not find a solution yet to post pictures on my main PC (Vista), but this Win7 laptop gets bit done. More to come!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Mikelap and JV,
> Did not find a solution yet to post pictures on my main PC (Vista), but this Win7 laptop gets bit done. More to come!




Turn that Vista machine into a Linux Mint 17 (32 bit version), and you will be a happy camper.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Re the 6AS7GA tubes that I have been extolling for a while - glad you like them! In addition to GE, Sylvania made them as well; Some Syls are rebranded as RCA. They all have gray
> Bakelite bottoms, and better sounding ones have copper rods.
> [




Look very similar to Mullard 6080's - ever compared these to the Mullards....anyone?

.


----------



## Lord Raven

I tried the 880 250 version, I did not like the round cups, unfortunately. And it was my first time to listen to an open back HPs, I was like WTH, I could listen to everything in the shop. I immediately removed them and ran away.
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Massdrop has the DT990 Premium 600ohms for $219. Here's what it says about the HP.
> 
> *Sound Design*
> _All of these factors are great, but the real advantage of these headphones is the sound quality. The sonic reproduction is the cornerstone of Beyerdynamic's design and comes through with forward sounding highs and punchy rich bass response. Detail and soundstage are also among the best available at this price point. Have you ever noticed John and Ringo whispering in the background of a Beatles outro? Have you ever listened to a pair of headphones that let you pick out every instrument in Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture? No? Sounds like you could use some Beyerdynamic DT990s._


 
  
 Quite unfortunate, you can buy a new head band, simple. I sit on pair of glasses in my car  LOL That is not a habit anymore, as I put my glasses in the glasses compartment now.


suuup said:


> They're really good headphones. I have the 250 ohm model, and I really like them. Unfortunately, I sat on them a few days after I got them, so they got bent out of shape. Still sounds good, but I cannot get the headclamp right. A friend of mine bought the matching pair, and his are extremely comfortable compared to mine. Not that mine isn't comfortable, but the 990's are really special. He's not even into good headphones, but he asked me what headphones were the most comfortable, so that's why I pointed him in that direction.


 
  
 Another veteran spotted  I am the youngest on this forum, for sure.. LOL


jazzvinyl said:


> I love my DT-990 600 ohm'ers! Treble does not seem "forward" to me...but I am not so young...so there ya go
> 
> .


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks for the confirmation on the copper rods  I am sure all my tubes will sound the same as yours.
  
 BTW GE 6AS7GE, do I need these when I have the 6AS7GA?
  
 Re your PC problem, download a different browser, like google chrome or something, I think your application is buggy.
  
 Edit: It was @Badas who said that about the copper tubes LOL I could not trust him!!!
  



mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> Tried "hyggeligt" on Google Translate - came back "cozy." Tried Swedish "hyggligt" - came back "reasonable."
> 
> ...


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Quite unfortunate, you can buy a new head band, simple. I sit on pair of glasses in my car  LOL That is not a habit anymore, as I put my glasses in the glasses compartment now.


 
 Unfortunately, it's not only the headband that was bent. The piece of metal holding the cups bent as well.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Unfortunately, it's not only the headband that was bent. The piece of metal holding the cups bent as well.


 
 LOL how did you sit on them? I cannot picture it, were you hurt? Cause these head bands are well built, titanium or aluminum.


----------



## mordy

HI LR,

I am sure that GE 6AS7GE is just a typo - should be 6AS7GA.

Re my Vista PC - tried Mozilla, Chrome and Explorer - no change.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL how did you sit on them? I cannot picture it, were you hurt? Cause these head bands are well built, titanium or aluminum.


 
 I went to the toilet and put the headphones down in my chair. When I came back, I forgot that I'd put them in the chair and sat down. I got up faster than the speed of light, shocked at what I had done. The following day I did the EXACT same thing. Since then, I've never left anything in my chair. Headphones go on a stand or on the table now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Re my Vista PC - tried Mozilla, Chrome and Explorer - no change.




Hello Mordy....
Need to change OPERATING SYSTEMS...dump WIndows Vista, install Linux Mint 17 (32 bit version) - a complete operating system.

Cheers


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> HI LR,
> 
> I am sure that GE 6AS7GE is just a typo - should be 6AS7GA.
> 
> Re my Vista PC - tried Mozilla, Chrome and Explorer - no change.


 
 Hi Mordy,
  
 Glad, I am collecting tubes, have not rolled a single one yet 
  
 If you have the media disc then try to refresh your system, the problem doing be deep down within the registries. A problem like that would keep me up all night. I hate windows though, it has so many issues. All my work PC's are Linux based.


----------



## Suuup

Why is shipping in Germany so slow? My 5998 haven't moved for days. When my chair was sent, it was in Germany for a week. The FDD20's were there a week also.
  
 When H1 sent me a pair of ECC31, they were at my doorstep 2 days later.


----------



## nephilim

And when I shipped the TungSols? I brought them to DHL on Friday and they were delivered next Tuesday... could be better but still OK


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> And when I shipped the TungSols? I brought them to DHL on Friday and they were delivered next Tuesday... could be better but still OK


 
 Ah, that is true! I totally forgot, as they were delivered at my moms address, so I didn't get them until the week after. I had no Elise though, so it wasn't urgent.


----------



## nephilim

Within Germany most stuff is delivered within 48h. 24h if both parties are located near bigger cities. As soon as something is delivered abroad it takes 1-2 days longer. My Elise was picked up Monday, arrived in Poland on Tuesday and was processed within Poland today. I hope it's being delivered tomorrow.


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> Within Germany most stuff is delivered within 48h. 24h if both parties are located near bigger cities. As soon as something is delivered abroad it takes 1-2 days longer. My Elise was picked up Monday, arrived in Poland on Tuesday and was processed within Poland today. I hope it's being delivered tomorrow.


 
 Well, it seems I am just unlucky. Or maybe they treat German citizens better than us Danes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. No, I think I was just unlucky.


----------



## UntilThen

Holy moly you guys post so much I can't keep up with you.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Holy moly you guys post so much I can't keep up with you.


 
 Sorry. You want us to post less?


----------



## UntilThen

Nah it's a joke.


----------



## hypnos1

mikelap said:


> See these              http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARA-COPPIA-FDD20-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-valvole-similari-alla-6N7-NOS-Rohre-Valve-/252163108585?hash=item3ab617aee9


 
  
 Yo, M...all the same tubes - Italian Philips...(strange they weren't manufactured in any of their other - many - stables, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> Holy moly you guys post so much I can't keep up with you.


 
  
 And there was I about to accuse you of being the sole cause of the now near 26,700 view count, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...you must be slipping, mon ami!...
  
 As for Elise feeding a DV336 SE....NO WAY!! - it _*has*_ to be *TWO ELISES!*...one for left channel, one for right...am drooling already, lol!...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> Thanks for discouraging the two amp experiment - one less thing to do LOL.
> 
> Re the 6AS7GA tubes that I have been extolling for a while - glad you like them! In addition to GE, Sylvania made them as well; Some Syls are rebranded as RCA. They all have gray
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy,
 I got up this morning and immediately miss the 2 amp soundstage. Thanks to @Lorspeaker . I'm going to experiment further on that later when I am done with Elise which is a long way yet.
 I would urge others to have a go just to see for themselves.
  
 Those coppers rods are heaters. Even the one GE 6AS7G I have does that. I'm not entirely sure if it sounds better but I do know the power tubes that I like do have them, like the Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080. However the 5998 does not.
  
 This RCA 6AS7GA that you show I have an identical one. It came with the DV336se from the previous seller. I think Oskari says they're 6080 but just branded wrongly....
 JV, a good question regarding comparing them to the Mullard 6080. I'll give it a go later today. However since it's single I need to do that on the DV.
  
 Windows Vista is no good. You should lose it ASAP. It's the worst of the operating system.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Man, these tubes opened up - can't believe my ears: MONSTROUS, THUNDEROUS BASS as if I just connected a humongous sub woofer. Can't believe this...
> Played a drum solo - never heard my system with so much slam and impact, going so deep. This 6BL7GT is a 300lb quarter back. Clean, clear, controlled bass and sub bass. The mid range and treble are excellent.
> As I am writing this I have put over 50 hours on these tubes. Can't beat the price/performance ratio. Decided to pair them with my Chatham 6AS7G tubes instead of the Sylvania 6AS7GA - sounds a little better.
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy...

Do you have more listening impressions on the 6BL7GT's? Your description sounds great! I might be able to accomplish "adapters" for these...

It's just 6SN7 with no connections to pins 7 & 8, right? All else is the same?

...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, M...all the same tubes - Italian Philips...(strange they weren't manufactured in any of their other - many - stables, lol!  ).
> 
> 
> And there was I about to accuse you of being the sole cause of the now near 26,700 view count, lol!! :wink_face: ...you must be slipping, mon ami!...
> ...




Lol it's Elise fault. She's the draw card. I've never work out what mom ami means 

You are spot on with 2 Elise in the audio chain. Now that would be dynamite.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Lol it's Elise fault. She's the draw card. I've never work out what mom ami means
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My friend 
  
 Who came up with the idea of 2 x Elise's first? Tell me...


----------



## UntilThen

I was thinking more on using one Elise as preamp and the other as amp. For some reason as Lorspeaker found out this stretches the soundstage and generates more micro details. It even sound louder. HD650 dynamic drivers felt like it's being fed a bolt of lightning. The drivers were literally singing.

Using 2 Elise one for left and one for right is a grand plan but not sure how that would be accomplish hooking up to a HE1000.


----------



## UntilThen

So addicted I am to the sound from the 2 amps, I'm going to try it again today.


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> Thanks for the confirmation on the copper rods  I am sure all my tubes will sound the same as yours.
> 
> BTW GE 6AS7GE, do I need these when I have the 6AS7GA?
> 
> ...


 
 Edit: It was @Badas who said that about the copper tubes LOL I could not trust him!!!      *Lord Raven its not a question of trust but a question of opinion you should always remember that my friend *


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Edit: It was @Badas who said that about the copper tubes LOL I could not trust him!!!      *Lord Raven its not a question of trust but a question of opinion you should always remember that my friend *


 

 Spot on Mike. Should always use friendlier terms like I believe you 100% but my mileage differs. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## UntilThen

*Elise - National Union 6A6 with 5998 ; Darkvoice 336se - 7N7 Raytheon with 5998.*
  
 Elise as preamp and DV336se as amp (B) ; Elise alone (A)
  
 I did a comparison again today. My findings are:-
  
 Hum is gone now. Totally silent. I can only attribute to the 2 units being placed very close to each other yesterday. Also perhaps the Marconi 6N7 was causing the slight hum on my less resilient DV.
  
 Sound wise A is powerful, precise with fast transient response. Polish tube amp. B is equally fast, precise and a bit more powerful, with a stretch soundstage. B is warmer, lusher, more bloom. Incredible. I could not believe what a change of driver tube on the DV and power tubes on Elise can make. I'm really excited now. Especially so that the hum is gone and I can do comparison from A to B so easily. I'm afraid this excitement is way too much to handle.
  
 Darkvoice 336se seems faster now driven by Elise as preamp. Magic?
  
 I really feel now that my exploration of the multitudes of tubes combination on both amps are endless now. Guys if you have a LD MK4 or a Crack with Speedball, use Elise as a preamp. I'm waiting to hear your feedback.
  

  
 Volume knob on both amps at 10.5 o'clock. This is for 'B' config. With Elise alone I need only set it to 9.5 o'clock to get similar volume. What is really enjoyable is that at loud volume both sound lovely and not ear piercing. Be careful. Look after your ears. Listen responsibly for your own sake.
  
*2.5 hours into this test. I declare both combo a tie.* *I'm in dire straits.* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Use it either way and the enjoyment factor is 20/10. 
  
 Give me another 4 hours and my verdict might change.
  
 Never in my wildest dream did I even think that I might use Elise in this manner. What else will she do next?
  
 I swap the NU 6A6 to ECC31 and immediately get a more powerful bass with more extension. Swap that again to Mazda 6N7G and I was in sonic heaven.
  
 I still find listening to A or B equally fun. Is there a noticeable difference? Of course. Is one better than the other? No. It's a variation. It's like listening to 2 different tube amp. Evil thoughts here...DV336se for a better tube amp in future.


----------



## Lord Raven

And everyone has different opinion, agreed. If everyone talks good about something and someone out of blue starts talking **** then you don't trust him, rather trust your friends 
  
 My milage did not start yet, LOL got nothing to listen to, no tubes arrived yet, everything is sent back. Only adapters arrived


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Vista is a champ compared to Windows ME!

Started with Win 95/98, them Win ME, then XP, then Vista, then 7, then 8, and now 10.

Do you see a pattern? Every other one is a bummer.... 

Good: 98, XP, 7, 10 too new to know

Bad: ME, Vista, 8

This is called progress.

My Win7 laptop gives me a free upgrade to Win10, but I am afraid I am going to lose some programs I use. At my age I hate the learning curves; that's why I stayed with Vista. 

I read somewhere that half of the world's business computers were running XP. Microsoft is sure taking care of that by stopping to support XP.

Coming soon:
I'll try to convey my exultation and frustration with 6BL7 and 6BX7 tubes in a write-up.


----------



## Lord Raven

I used 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, now 10 and using XP on it via virtual machine. Every windows is buggy. 

Windows 10 is now settling down after several months of upgrades. I hate it so much, the scrolling is taken away from it. Every time you restart windows, one scrolling is disabled, you enable it every time. 

I'll not upgrade to it if given another chance. However, Microsoft is pushing/forcing this upgrade to Windows users. So you'll get it anyway.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Vista is a champ compared to Windows ME!
> 
> ...


 

 Avoid ME and Vista. XP ok but you should go on Windows 7 now. I didn't like 8. Tried 10 and I back out immediately. I'm in the IT industry my whole life. My work requires me to interact with PC from mainframe. At home I have both Mac and PC. I rather use Mac any time. With Windows there shouldn't be problems if you know how to work it.
  
 Windows 7 is robust and stable. So use it with confidence. Get an anti-virus for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I empathise about learning new software as one gets older but Windows 7 isn't more difficult to navigate than Vista.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Coming soon:
> I'll try to convey my exultation and frustration with 6BL7 and 6BX7 tubes in a write-up.




Thank you, Mordy - 

Looking forward to your further thoughts on the 6BL7/6BX7 "power hungry" tubes.

.


----------



## UntilThen

Excellent Mordy. Can't wait to see your experiment of 6BL7. Remember pictures 
  
 I like to feed Elise into this...


----------



## gibosi

For those interested in the 6BL7, Glenn builds an amp with 6 output tube sockets which can be populated in a number or ways:
  
 Six 6SN7
 Six 6BL7
 Two or four 6AS7
 Two 6336
  
 http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I read this some time ago and it's an incredible tube amp. I love 6N7 and 6A6 family tubes. Will this accept those? Also FDD20?
  
 Ummm 6336 as well amazing.
  
 One driver, one rectifier and 6 power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I wonder how much that amp cost. Drooling.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have really fallen in love with the 2x FDD20/5998 combination of tubes. Rounding the 90 hour mark on the new FDD20 and it's really come into it's own. These tubes (after generous burn in) really put on a dazzling aural show.



​
And have that gorgeous *blue* glass...​


Cheers to us, the LUCKY ones!


.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I have really fallen in love with the 2x FDD20/5998 combination of tubes. Rounding the 90 hour mark on the new FDD20 and it's really come into it's own. These tubes (after generous burn in) really put on a dazzling aural show.
> .


 
 It does look surreal. Sound too I imagine. I'm having so much fun now with 2 amps. Swapping in 2 ECC31 for the NU and it's a bass monster.
  
 Keep it coming. We're having simultaneous combos firing from all corners of the world.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It does look surreal. Sound too I imagine. I'm having so much fun now with 2 amps. Swapping in 2 ECC31 for the NU and it's a bass monster.
> 
> Keep it coming. We're having simultaneous combos firing from all corners of the world.




2 amps is wild, UT!

Crazy fun!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> For those interested in the 6BL7, Glenn builds an amp with 6 output tube sockets which can be populated in a number or ways:
> 
> Six 6SN7
> Six 6BL7
> ...




Looks like it would a great deal of fun, that amp!!

Appreciate the link, gibosi!

.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm hearing things I've not heard before. Pluck of the guitar strings, drummer hitting the toms and kick drums, piano notes all startlingly impactful and clear. It's a very HiFi sound in the ears and transmitted to the brains. Pounding in the chest too. It's a whole body experience. Vocals so clear and pitch perfect.
  
 It has been worth the long wait for Elise.
  
 I'm approaching the 120 hours mark.
  
 It's weird. When I increase the volume from both amps it seems to be dialing in the gain and attributes from both amps. It's an alchemy of amps !!!
  
 My desktop is full of tubes !!!


----------



## UntilThen

*I declare Elise a success.* For 17 days now I've been captivated and the end is no where in sight. Not even getting the 1st IBM PC in 1981 surpassed this experience. That's 34 years ago. My 1st PC. It has two 5.25 inch floppy drives and no hard disk and runs MS DOS and a CRT screen. The only game was pong. So don't complain about your Windows Operating system now. 
  
 Elise has no floppy drives but has 2 power tubes and 2 driver tubes. She also sings. 
  
 So I finally get a dual mono equivalent like La Figaro 339. I can adjust 2 volume knobs now.  Well my knobs doesn't change left and right volume but it dials in stereo in increment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  

  
 Matching blue LED lights 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 3 Tung Sol 5998, 2 Mazda 6N7G and 1 7N7 Raytheon between the 2 amps.
  
 HELP - Hotel California with 2 amps sounds like 2 speakers and subwoofer inside my head at 11 o'clock on both.
  
@Lorspeaker thank you, your da best, your theory works.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Must be Deeeelicioussss... that richness within that expanded space...intoxicating..




(I had a cv181 T2 thrown into the mix on the DV..n some silver cables...
To extract more details n speed )


----------



## UntilThen

Omg I need to spend money again on another Psvane Treasure CV181 T2?  Silver cable for HD650? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 High Five !!!
  
 I must'n look at your avatar too much. That's intoxicating too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Guys you have to hear this. It's really intoxicating.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *I declare Elise a success.* For 17 days now I've been captivated and the end is no where in sight. Not even getting the 1st IBM PC in 1981 surpassed this experience. That's 34 years ago. My 1st PC. It has two 5.25 inch floppy drives and no hard disk and runs MS DOS and a CRT screen. The only game was pong. So don't complain about your Windows Operating system now.
> 
> Elise has no floppy drives but has 2 power tubes and 2 driver tubes. She also sings.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Omg I need to spend money again on another Psvane Treasure CV181 T2?  Silver cable for HD650?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...I have just realised that from what you've been describing, there's a much easier way to get (pretty well!) this sort of sound...*Get a pair of Beyer T1s, lol!!*...this is very much the kind of difference I found going from the HD650s (with silver cable!) to these beauties...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...it is a _*totally*_ different experience, IMHO...CHEERS!
  
 Edit...ps.  But be forewarned - I personally believe (and at this point I duck for cover, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) that the 650's apparent super bass can, I fear, sometimes be just that..._apparent!_... Not until I heard the T1s did I have the faintest clue this could be the case. At first I felt they just might be a tad short at this frequency end, but the more (different types of...) bass I heard the more I realised the 650s weren't reproducing anywhere near the full gamut within the entire 'bass' range...and certainly with nowhere near the same level of detail and crisp attack. These differences became FAR more apparent in the Elise compared to my LDMKIV SE...
  
 I shall now retreat to the safety of my bunker, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 pps.  Can't blame the 650's _silver_ cable for the bass thing...copper was just the same, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...I have just realised that from what you've been describing, there's a much easier way to get (pretty well!) this sort of sound...*Get a pair of Beyer T1s, lol!!*...this is very much the kind of difference I found going from the HD650s (with silver cable!) to these beauties...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 T1 plus this will turn it into Orpheas plus you still have 2 volume controls.  
  
 Sound is so rich now it's crazy. H1, you must hook up your LD Mk4 and give it a go.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> T1 plus this will turn it into Orpheas plus you still have 2 volume controls.
> 
> Sound is so rich now it's crazy. H1, you must hook up your LD Mk4 and give it a go.


 
  
 Hi UT...must admit I'm tempted - but doubt whether 'She who must be obeyed' will be easily convinced, now I have everything 'nice and neat' lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...perhaps one dark Winter's day, mon ami (= mein freund = amico mio = mi amigo = *my friend!*...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps.  Tagged a bit onto the end of my previous post...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Edit...ps.  But be forewarned - I personally believe (and at this point I duck for cover, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just plug in the HE560 on the 2 amps. Strange no more meshed sound that I got on the 1st attempt yesterday. Crystal clear now. Yes I certainly hear A LOT MORE now. HD650 cannot compare in terms of reach on the top and bottom end with the HE560 which IMO is a very nice HP.
  
 Now you make me itch even more. I'm actually thinking more of the HD800 than the T1. Sennheiser fan I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 HE560 straight into Elise alone is astonishingly detail and clear. Fast too. The notes leap at you. Like those raptors in Jurassic  World. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Elise and HE560 combo is heavenly. I haven't heard T1 or HD800 but this pairing certainly sounds top notch.
  
 HE560 sounds great too on the 2 amps pairing. Elise sound is mesh through on the DV. Very nice. Just listened to Copland: Fanfare for the Common Man (Minnesota Orchestra)...amazing and frightening.


----------



## Lorspeaker

the two amp combo would stretch the T1 to another level too.. 
 but effect is most evident on closed cans...tomyrecollection.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> Yes I read this some time ago and it's an incredible tube amp. I love 6N7 and 6A6 family tubes. Will this accept those? Also FDD20?
> 
> Ummm 6336 as well amazing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is the same as my amp, but with six output sockets, instead of two. So yes, it can run 6N7, 6A6, the 12 volt FDD20 and 25 volt drivers too. In hindsight, adding four more output sockets is the only thing I would change about mine if I could...


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit...ps.  But be forewarned - I personally believe (and at this point I duck for cover, lol!
> ...


 
 Version with Eiji Oue Conductor  FANTABULOUS


----------



## Suuup

And so the mystery lot has arrived (part of it at least), after a vacation at H1s place. First, I have to commend the incredible packagin by H1, that was quite extraordinary.
  

 Cardboard box with one of these containers pr tube, filled with padding inside and ofcourse the tube, carefully packaged into it's own cardboard box. Pretty sure it wouldn't matter how much the postal service threw around with it, it could survive pretty much everything. 
  
 So how do they look?

  



  
 Compared to my 'real' ECC31's:

  
 There is no doubt anymore, this *IS *an *ECC31*. They have the exact same proportions, and they look the same inside as well. 
  
 Sound impressions will come later, but I expect them to be the same as the ECC31's I already have.


----------



## mordy

Here is an adapter that I made for external heater wires. This is a 9pin socket extender that has a screw holding it together so that it can easily be taken apart. The bottom part of the #4 and 5 pins were de-soldered and taken out, and the heater wires soldered on to the #4&5 socket pins inside the extender. A hole was drilled on the side to let the wires out with a knot on the wires inside to prevent pulling the wires out.
  
 I would like to make a similar adapter for an octal socket, but the octal socket extenders that I have are all glued together and don't come apart. Any suggestions?
  





 Close-up of 9pin socket extender.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> There is no doubt anymore, this *IS* an *ECC31*. They have the exact same proportions, and they look the same inside as well.
> 
> Sound impressions will come later, but I expect them to be the same as the ECC31's I already have.




Nice work, Suuup!

Can't wait for the sound impression/conclusion....

.


----------



## UntilThen

This thread is ALIVE today. Woke up to read bits that titillates my senses.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> the two amp combo would stretch the T1 to another level too..
> but effect is most evident on closed cans...tomyrecollection.


 

 You sir are responsible for more sleepless nights for me with 2 amps....almost type 2 cans ....that too I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Let me see, you're referring to Yamaha MT220.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It is the same as my amp, but with six output sockets, instead of two. So yes, it can run 6N7, 6A6, the 12 volt FDD20 and 25 volt drivers too. In hindsight, adding four more output sockets is the only thing I would change about mine if I could...


 

 This is the post that got my sonic juice flowing. Handles C3g, 12V and 25V too. Hey presto, goodbye to dandy eye patches forever. How convenient is that.
  
 G, do you ever sleep with your amp? I see endless tube rolling there with ease. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just a thought. Can I put in all my 6 FDD20 with adapters ????  OMG what will that sound like? Ok I'm saving those FDD20s. Well even 2 FDD20 in there without 12V AC adapter will be dynamite. Oh wait those are output power tube sockets and FDD20 is driver.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Version with Eiji Oue Conductor  FANTABULOUS


 
 Yes Mike that is the version I was listening to.
  


suuup said:


> And so the mystery lot has arrived (part of it at least), after a vacation at H1s place. First, I have to commend the incredible packagin by H1, that was quite extraordinary.
> 
> Cardboard box with one of these containers pr tube, filled with padding inside and ofcourse the tube, carefully packaged into it's own cardboard box. Pretty sure it wouldn't matter how much the postal service threw around with it, it could survive pretty much everything.
> 
> ...


 
 Those ECC31s are more beautiful looking with those red logo and lettering. Yes H1 packaging is unbeatable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Here is an adapter that I made for external heater wires. This is a 9pin socket extender that has a screw holding it together so that it can easily be taken apart. The bottom part of the #4 and 5 pins were de-soldered and taken out, and the heater wires soldered on to the #4&5 socket pins inside the extender. A hole was drilled on the side to let the wires out with a knot on the wires inside to prevent pulling the wires out.
> 
> I would like to make a similar adapter for an octal socket, but the octal socket extenders that I have are all glued together and don't come apart. Any suggestions?
> 
> Cse-up of 9pin socket extender.


 
 Mordy, I'm still waiting on the 6BL7 impressions


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> the two amp combo would stretch the T1 to another level too..
> but effect is most evident on closed cans...tomyrecollection.


 
  
 Hey L...you tryin' to get me kicked out of the house as well, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...oh dear!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And what's this "to my recollection" deal...did you abandon this idea, and/or go off in a totally different direction?...please enlighten us!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!
  


mikelap said:


> Version with Eiji Oue Conductor  FANTABULOUS


 
 You ain't kidding, M!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I believe it was Lorspeaker who put me on to this version a good while ago now - if I'm not mistaken?).
  


suuup said:


> And so the mystery lot has arrived (part of it at least), after a vacation at H1s place. First, I have to commend the incredible packagin by H1, that was quite extraordinary.
> 
> 
> Cardboard box with one of these containers pr tube, filled with padding inside and ofcourse the tube, carefully packaged into it's own cardboard box. Pretty sure it wouldn't matter how much the postal service threw around with it, it could survive pretty much everything.
> ...


 
  
 Hi S....same sound *guaranteed*, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  
 Edit -   ps....From the look of that perfectly manicured thumb nail, I would suspect you too are an OCD candidate - just like self-confessed UT!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  
 Edit -  pps...And me too, lol!!!


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> This is the post that got my sonic juice flowing. Handles C3g, 12V and 25V too. Hey presto, goodbye to dandy eye patches forever. How convenient is that.
> 
> Just a thought. Can I put in all my 6 FDD20 with adapters ????  OMG what will that sound like? Ok I'm saving those FDD20s. Well even 2 FDD20 in there without 12V AC adapter will be dynamite. Oh wait those are output power tube sockets and FDD20 is driver.


 
  
 But you could plug in six of your favorite 6N7 or ECC31 or 6SN7, and use them as output tubes. And yes, since each channel takes three, there is no reason why you couldn't run three different tubes with similar gain, for example, an ECC31, a Visseaux 6N7 and a National Union 6N7 in each channel.
  
 And since it will take four 6AS7, two per channel, you could run two different tubes with similar gain, for example, an RCA 6AS7 and a Chatham 6AS7 and in each channel. lol


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> But you could plug in six of your favorite 6N7 or ECC31 or 6SN7, and use them as output tubes. And yes, since each channel takes three, there is no reason why you couldn't run three different tubes with similar gain, for example, an ECC31, a Visseaux 6N7 and a National Union 6N7 in each channel.
> 
> And since it will take four 6AS7, two per channel, you could run two different tubes with similar gain, for example, an RCA 6AS7 and a Chatham 6AS7 and in each channel. lol


 

 LOL this amp can tube roll until you gain perfection like solving the Rubik's Cube.
  
 Definitely drooling like a St Bernard now. I knew there's a reason for buying all those 6N7, 6A6, ECC31 and 6SN7. Ummm how about popping in 2 5998 and 4 Chatham as powers. Or 6 5998 !!!
  
 One needs more hands to tube roll with this amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Elise as preamp in to this amp phew !!!


----------



## aqsw

I'm starting to hate all you guys!!!
 I wish I had an Elise


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> LOL this amp can tube roll until you gain perfection like solving the Rubik's Cube.
> 
> Definitely drooling like a St Bernard now. I knew there's a reason for buying all those 6N7, 6A6, ECC31 and 6SN7. Ummm how about popping in 2 5998 and 4 Chatham as powers. Or 6 5998 !!!
> 
> ...


 
 Better start saving.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm starting to hate all you guys!!!
> I wish I had an Elise


 

 aqsw definitely try Elise as preamp in to your Liquid Carbon...it will be liquid gold.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> LOL this amp can tube roll until you gain perfection like solving the Rubik's Cube.
> 
> Definitely drooling like a St Bernard now. I knew there's a reason for buying all those 6N7, 6A6, ECC31 and 6SN7. Ummm how about popping in 2 5998 and 4 Chatham as powers. Or 6 5998 !!!
> 
> One needs more hands to tube roll with this amp.


 
  
 Don't get too carried away! lol. You are limited to 5 amps of heater current per channel. So no more than four 6AS7 or 5998, two per channel. But since the 6BL7 draws only 1.5 amps, six, or three per channel is fine.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> Don't get too carried away! lol. You are limited to 5 amps of heater current per channel. So no more than four 6AS7 or 5998, two per channel. But since the 6BL7 draws only 1.5 amps, six, or three per channel is fine.


 

 Well I guess I can be happy with 4 5998 LOL. Those 6BL7 and 6336....hmmm especially the latter...wonder what those 6336 sounds like.
  
 5 amps of heater current per channel......hahahahaha.
  
 And this amp cost less than 2 Elise....incredible.


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> Well I guess I can be happy with 4 5998 LOL. Those 6BL7 and 6336....hmmm especially the latter...wonder what those 6336 sounds like.
> 
> 5 amps of heater current per channel......hahahahaha.
> 
> And this amp cost less than 2 Elise....incredible.


 
  
 Yup. Each 6336 pulls down 5 amps, so 10 amps just for the output tubes! And surprisingly, I find them to be a very good sounding tubes.
  
 For a Glenn owner, the 6336 is the solution when you want to run low-Z cans.


----------



## UntilThen

Those 6336 are very nice looking tubes. Look at the pink glow. No adapters required in your setup. How neat.
  
 They look like the tubes used in this high end tube amp shown in the Munich show.


----------



## gibosi

My guess is those are KT88, serious power tubes used in transformer-coupled amps....


----------



## UntilThen

My options are limitless now with 2 amps. I'm able to dial in any degree of warmness or brightness as I so desire. I have here:-
  
 Elise with Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G ; Darkvoice 336se with Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears with TungSol 5998.
  
 Incredibly sweet combination. Stereo separation is unbelievable. You experience the sensation of delay with regard to specific sounds coming from different places. Distinct sounds coming from the left and right HP drivers hits you with such clarity it's unreal.
  
 With flash


 Without flash


----------



## whirlwind

gibosi said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Well I guess I can be happy with 4 5998 LOL. Those 6BL7 and 6336....hmmm especially the latter...wonder what those 6336 sounds like.
> ...


 
 Ken, are both of those 6336 tubes Cetron  ?.....those are what I am looking for, for my Grado cans.


----------



## gibosi

whirlwind said:


> Ken, are both of those 6336 tubes Cetron  ?.....those are what I am looking for, sor my Grado cans.


 
  
 Yes, this is a pair of Cetron JAN 6336B.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks, Ken.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Thanks, Ken.


 

 Another Grado fan.     Reminds me of @HeatFan12. He's a collector.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


>




Got your 5694 running, as your driver it appears...?

.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Hypnos... both my tubeamps r retired 
Living off the 10.32 audiogd.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> Hypnos... both my tubeamps r retired
> Living off the 10.32 audiogd.


 

 L....how is that possible??? Once a tube amp addict always a tube amp addict.


----------



## UntilThen

G, can 1635 tube run in your amp and if so how does it sound? I have a pair here that I can only admire.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> G, can 1635 tube run in your amp and if so how does it sound? I have a pair here that I can only admire.


 
 Can use with ECC31 adapters


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> Got your 5694 running, as your driver it appears...?


 
  
 Yes I do. A very nice tube indeed. Sure wish this tube wasn't so hard to find. I would be very interested to learn what others think of it..


----------



## gibosi

untilthen said:


> G, can 1635 tube run in your amp and if so how does it sound? I have a pair here that I can only admire.


 
  
 I don't have one, but I'm quite sure it would work as it is rather similar to the 6SL7. However, with a mu of more than three times that of a 6SN7, I don't feel that it is a good match for my amp....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> G, can 1635 tube run in your amp and if so how does it sound? I have a pair here that I can only admire.




Christmas tree ornaments!! Should be able to apply some DC and light 'em up!



.


----------



## UntilThen

*Headphones test for Elise*
  
 I have already covered extensively on HD650 and HE560. Others have use HD800, Beyer T1, DT990 600ohms, DT880 600ohms, AKG 7xx etc and reported excellent matching.
  
 I dug out 4 headphones lying around the house and decided to try it on Elise. Here's how they sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Verdict - Elise is very versatile. *The only thing I didn't try is Samsung earbud. I'm afraid it might explode with all that tube power !!!
  
*Sennheiser Momentum*. 110dB, 18 Ohm, Dynamic, Closed, noise isolating, leather. - Sounds good, very good !!!
_*                                                       There you go...18 ohm works very well. Phil Collins never sounded so good.*_


*PSU M4U 2* - 102dB, 32 Ohm, Active Noise Cancelling - Good bass range, solid upper pitch range. Good sounding. Very nice !!!


*Bose OE2i* - Microphone, made for iPhone, circumaural, Bose acoustic equalisation, semi-open - Light weight but surprise it sounded very enjoyable  I use this for Skype LOL but works on Elise.


*Vic Firth Stereo Isolation Headphone* - These specially designed HP drastically reduce the level of external sound reaching the musician's ears, offering valuable protection from potential damage. The SIH1 reduces overall noise levels by 24 decibels and features high quality stereo headphones. Unlike non-isolation headsets, where musicians typically crank the volume to very high and potentially damaging sound levels in order to hear the music clearly, the SIH1 reduces ambient noise from the instruments. This allows the musician to play along with the recorded music or monitor other performers in a live situation at comfortable and safe sound levels.
 On Elise you don't hear much and it's not surprising. The drummer in the house uses this when he practises on the drums.


----------



## Lord Raven

Spent the night trying to capture the milky way, and thinking about the tubes I have and I want.. Both hobbies are killing me!!!
  
*Powers *
  
 Mullard 6080
 Chatham 6AS7G
 Tung Sol 5998
 GE/HP 6AS7GA (Still hunting)
  
*Drivers*
  
 ECC31
 (I am thinking of Mazda 6N7 next, or maybe FDD20 with external heaters)
  
 Please suggest, what is missing from my future inventory?


----------



## UntilThen

You don't need anymore. Mazda would be nice but there aren't any around.

6A6 are my recommendations.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You don't need anymore. Mazda would be nice but there aren't any around.
> 
> 6A6 are my recommendations.


 
 Mazda 6N7, can't it be arranged? Is it that rare? What do you think about FDD20 in my inventory, if not the Mazda? 
  
 6A6, how do I identify it? And what brand is the best? 
  
 BTW, I did not hear any tube yet. It would be something great in December when I get everything. Headphones and tubes are arriving same time!


----------



## UntilThen

Listen to those tubes first before you continue buying. Coming from stock tubes those would be a great improvement.


----------



## MIKELAP

lord raven said:


> Spent the night trying to capture the milky way, and thinking about the tubes I have and I want.. Both hobbies are killing me!!!
> 
> *Powers *
> 
> ...


 
 G.E. 6AS7GA back in stock  at PARTS EXPRESS                  http://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612


----------



## UntilThen

Mazda 6N7G, Visseaux 6N7G & 6A6, Fivre 6N7G & 6A6, NU 6A6, Tung Sol 6A6, Sylvania 6A6.

FDD20 is without doubt a must try. Many happy customers here. 

But don't buy more until you've tried those you already ordered. You might like them so much that you don't need more.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Mazda 6N7G, Visseaux 6N7G & 6A6, Fivre 6N7G & 6A6, NU 6A6, Tung Sol 6A6, Sylvania 6A6.
> 
> FDD20 is without doubt a must try. Many happy customers here.
> 
> But don't buy more until you've tried those you already ordered. You might like them so much that you don't need more.


 
 Is there a difference between Mazda 6N7 and 6N7G? What is the expected or market price of Mazda 6N7G, I might have found a pair.
  
 FDD20 is costly, in terms of adapters and external power supply, since I started to think about a sexy LPS LOL 
  
 I am trying so hard no to buy, how can I stop?


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> G.E. 6AS7GA back in stock  at PARTS EXPRESS                  http://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612


 
 Thanks Mike, that's my last resort  I will buy some Mundorf Caps form them if I buy this tube to get a bulk order hehe.. Check your PM!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Decided to revisit the GM 6N7G re-brands...




These are some mighty fine sounding tubes too, y'all...

And cheap...




.


----------



## Lord Raven

Just checked open market for 6N7G tubes, there is only GM tubes available  Looks like I am late to ride the 6N7 tube train..


----------



## UntilThen

6N7G and 6A6 (predecessor of 6N7G) all have similar characteristics. All are good, just some better than good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Mazda 6N7G - should be 6N7G...seller list it as 6N7 ... he forgot to put the G. They are coke bottle shape like the ECC31.
 Mike and Mordy bought a pair for $20. I got my pair of new old stock for $99. It has been listed as $300 for 4. Price goes up after the rave reviews here.
  
 Unless you're passionate about collecting tubes, just buy what you need. Don't worry about missing the train.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Plenty of 6N7G's will come to the market. A little patience is all that is needed.


----------



## Lord Raven

Why can't we have a closed user group for Elise? 

Rave reviews will do this, and things will be out of reach for others. 

This means, next all I need is a pretty looking 6N7G  Best would be Mazda, right? 

Wish me luck guys!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Also, a pair of 7N7 Tung-Sol's for dirt cheap, sound about as good as my best pair of Sylvania 6SN7's for a much lower price. They do require adapters. Very good, but still not as good overall as the many shouldered drivers we have used in the Elise.

Both 6A6 and 6N7G can be had at bargain prices, and have a presence and clarity that makes most 6SN7's sound rather pale in comparison.


----------



## UntilThen

This is a generalisation. 6N7G appears more forward and in your face. 6A6 is more calming and soothing.
  
 So if you want to do a slow waltz with your wife, get the 6A6. If you want to hit the dance floor and do the moon walk, get the 6N7G. You can't do the waltz with Bille Jean. Neither can you do the moon walk with Mahler Symphony No. 5.
  
 Hope that helps - mon ami !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This is a generalisation. 6N7G appears more forward and in your face. 6A6 is more calming and




Don't have any 6A6 to compare, but note the forward-ness of 6N7G can be tamed a bit by your selection of Power Tubes...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Don't have any 6A6 to compare, but note the forward-ness of 6N7G can be tamed a bit by your selection of Power Tubes...


 

 I actually find the forwardness very exciting depending on my mood.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Some of my sellers over packed the tubes. I had to cut through layers of foam and a few boxes to get to the tubes. *It's like a treasure hunt.*


 
 True dat'


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I actually find the forwardness very exciting depending on my mood.




Agree with that as well. Art Garfunkel tonight w/6N7G never sounded better....he benefits a from a kick in the pants


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Agree with that as well. Art Garfunkel tonight w/6N7G never sounded better....he benefits a from a kick in the pants


 

 LOL...it's been said that Art Garfunkel only sole purpose here is to....sing 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' and he nails it with or without 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

I just listened to 'Bridge Over Troubled Waters' using 3 Tung Sol 5998, 2 C3g, 1 Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top. Garfunkel sings well but he sings best with these tubes.
  
 This combo is sterling.


----------



## JazzVinyl

A little 7N7 Tung-Sol excitement 






.


----------



## UntilThen

Nep wants to sell his 7N7 and adapters. Don't know why. They are great tubes. I saw a pack of 5 Tung Sol 7N7 going for $50. That's value.


----------



## UntilThen

*Blue Note Jazz Club*
  
 These are economical tubes but are they economical sounding? Far from it. I think this has to be the best value setup in terms of value and musicality. 
  
 2 GE 6AS7GA / VISSEAUX 6A6    
 1 RCA 6AS7GA / RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass VT-231
  
 The most expensive tube there is the RCA Smoke Glass and that's because I wanted to dial in more warm and lushness.
  
 Bias aside, the GE 6AS7GA sounds very good. It sounds full as oppose to a lean sound. I for one like that kind of tone. Think of a bluesy nightclub where jazz musicians play and a sultry singer voice floats over the lounge. Bartender pours you a shot of whisky. A business man next to you offered you a Cuban cigar. Have a nice evening.
  

  
 GE 6AS7GA  cost $11 each from Parts Express. Cheaper than a evening night out.
  
@Suuup, you'll love these with Dire Straits and it will not put you in dire straits.


----------



## UntilThen

*Darkvoice 336se vs Elise*
  
 After several days of feeding Elise as preamp to DV336se, I felt I should do a mini comparison of the 2 amps against each other. It is easy to switch from one to the other because all it takes is to insert the DAC RCA output to the input of the respective tube amps.
  
 Tubes used are as the post above.
  
 I have heard how the DV336se has more bass weight than the Elise. So my test is primarily focussed on this aspect. We already know that in all other aspects, Elise trumps the DV336se.
  
 The test track for this comparison is the 'Copland:Fanfare for the Common Man', by Minnesota Orchestra, conductor Eiji Oue.
  
 I started listening with the DV. Impressive. Bass galore. In abundance. Love it. This track is not for the faint hearted tube amp.
  
 Next Elise. Press play and I was startled out of my chair on the bass drum, timpani and tam tam (chinese gong) clash. The impact is deafening. Not only is it loud but attack and decay is superb. Not only did Elise trumps DV on bass weight (no contest), it does so with superb control and precision.
  
 It isn't a fair comparison. I don't expect the Darkvoice 336se to win. It did a very good job though considering the price but Elise wins by a mile.
  
 Elise is muscular as well as refine and polish. She is the quintessence tube amp.
  
 I'm tempted to say she's the Fifth Element but I'm afraid I might get bananas and eggs thrown at me.


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> For those interested in the 6BL7, Glenn builds an amp with 6 output tube sockets which can be populated in a number or ways:
> 
> Six 6SN7
> Six 6BL7
> ...


 

 I reread the review. I must say it is very well written and gives an impression of rare engineering at it's finest. This is one tube amp to try out.


----------



## UntilThen

After 3 days of experimenting with using Elise as a preamp to the DV336se, I'm not convinced this is the way to go. Stretched soundstage or otherwise, I think it is diluting an otherwise splendid sound from Elise alone.
  
 One thing that worries me is the drop in volume when paired this way. I have to dial up both volume to 11 to get gain similar to 9 when using Elise alone. I don't know why this would be the case.
  
 So yeah while it was fun having more tube combinations to fry, I'm back to the simpler life. A well engineered tube amp does not need to stack with another tube amp to get better results. If you find otherwise l'll be keen to hear.
  
 As usual your mileage may vary.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > For those interested in the 6BL7, Glenn builds an amp with 6 output tube sockets which can be populated in a number or ways:
> ...


 
 Glenn's amps are built like a tank, no doubt.
  
 If you can dream it up, Glenn can usually make that dream come true, if it is feasible.


----------



## Lord Raven

Let the tube rolling begin


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Let the tube rolling begin


 
 But you have no headphones?! You're a confusing man, LR. Spends a ton on tubes, but has no headphones.


----------



## Suuup

Whoops. Just ordered a pair of Visseaux 6N7G on impulse. Took 20 seconds to order them......


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> But you have no headphones?! You're a confusing man, LR. Spends a ton on tubes, but has no headphones.


 
 LOL exactly, but they're coming in December  Christmas time..
  
 What happened to the 6N7G hunt, did the seller respond?


----------



## Lord Raven

I got another one  Guess the tube?


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL exactly, but they're coming in December  Christmas time..
> 
> What happened to the 6N7G hunt, did the seller respond?


 
 I've been writing back and forth, but unfortunately no Tungsol or Fivre yet. It may still come. Apparently, there has been other people inquiring about these exact tubes aswell.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I got another one  Guess the tube?


 
 Looks like an ECC31 to me.
 Edit: Oh, just noticed the label. Guess I'm right. 
 How much did you pay?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Looks like an ECC31 to me.
> Edit: Oh, just noticed the label. Guess I'm right.
> How much did you pay?


 
 Great, you guessed it right without looking at the label 
  
 I won it in auction for like 50$, Johannes told me these are 130 euro for a single tube, I don't think I will buy from him anything LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Great, you guessed it right without looking at the label
> 
> I won it in auction for like 50$, Johannes told me these are 130 euro for a single tube, I don't think I will buy from him anything LOL


 
 Wait, who Johannes are you talking about? Yea, 50 $ is a very good price for an ECC31. Normal price is around 110-130 euro. 
 Edit: Ah, it was you who won that auction. I was just about to bid, but decided I had enough ECC31 at this time. It's the one which went for 55$, right?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Wait, who Johannes are you talking about? Yea, 50 $ is a very good price for an ECC31. Normal price is around 110-130 euro.
> Edit: Ah, it was you who won that auction. I was just about to bid, but decided I had enough ECC31 at this time. It's the one which went for 55$, right?


 
 LOL I have a trigger finger 
  
 I got 4 of these now, two won in auctions, a pair bought for a high price from Taiwan. Everything is in transit :/
  
 Yes, Johannes, I got in touch with him before you ever did. He told me that he had 6N7 tubes but then he said the items run out. Who the hell is buying everything?


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think the FDD20 starts out the race a little behind the ECC31 in the bass department, and with lengthy burn in, catches up, then runs right past it.

It develops tremendous bass, but is tighter and more articulated than ECC31 bass (which is more subsonic/subwoofer/one notey). 

2x FDD20 @ 90 + hours is extremely good stuff in the Elise.



.


----------



## Lord Raven

Looks like we have another end game tube combo/pair 
  
 So far I think UT and JV discovered this phenomenon, who else is a believer? I am so inclined towards doing an external heater DIY but I need a small push LOL
  
 Thanks JV, for bringing another great finding to the Elise family 
  
 Edit: I absolutely love the blue tint. Shot this the other night and the night sky came all bluey.. 
  

  
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> I think the FDD20 starts out the race a little behind the ECC31 in the bass department, and with lengthy burn in, catches up, then runs right past it.
> 
> It develops tremendous bass, but is tighter and more articulated than ECC31 bass (which is more subsonic/subwoofer/one notey).
> 
> ...


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Took the the dual tube amp challenge and dusted off my Little Dot MKIII (actually no dust, had cleaned it up to sell it) and dressed it up in C3g drivers and Sylvania 6AS7GA 2.5A power tubes. (These mods were not intended for the LD, but we made it work.)
  
 Connected the Elise as a preamp with Mazda drivers, and then the MKIII into the integrated amp I use for my speakers.
  
 First impression: Very powerful sound, plays louder than using only Elise. Very wide s t r e t c h e d  out sound stage. And here is my problem with this (remember that i listen through speakers, not headphones):
  
 The sound stage is not coherent - it's like two oval sound fields that extend beyond the speakers to the right and the left, but do not converge in the middle. To me it does not sound like an organic whole, but more like two separate sound stages. Maybe I need to move my listening chair back, but I can't - hitting the back wall.
  
 It is quite possible that this works very well with headphones, but this setup leaves me feeling uneasy. Don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but this does not work for me even though the instrument separation is excellent with good tonality across.
  
 Found that the 2.5A power tubes were overwhelming the MKIII in this configuaration and put in the stock 6N6P Novosibirsk tubes - better. But my impression remains: Personally, I get better sound just running the Elise alone.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


>


 

 FDD20/ECC31 was H1's discovery. I merely tested it and found it to be good.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Took the the dual tube amp challenge and dusted off my Little Dot MKIII (actually no dust, had cleaned it up to sell it) and dressed it up in C3g drivers and Sylvania 6AS7GA 2.5A power tubes. (These mods were not intended for the LD, but we made it work.)
> 
> ...


 

 Hahaha Mordy, 2 soundstage sounds funny. Just some observations. I'd use Elise as preamp direct into your stereo amp or Elise as preamp to your LD MK3 then to HP. However doing it the way you're doing, you have come up with something new. 
  
 That's the conclusion I came to ...see my last post in #2223. My comment was, a capable tube amp does not need to stack with another amp to get a better sound on headphone. As a preamp to home stereo it is different as my receiver has a dedicated preamp input.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> FDD20/ECC31 was H1's discovery. I merely tested it and found it to be good.


 
 I know, I don't remember if he will move onto the pair of FDD20 tubes or not? 
  
@hypnos1 please suggest, pair or ECC31 or a pair of FDD20?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Glad that you concur about the great sound of the GE 6AS7GA power tubes. The RCA 6AS7GA with the gray bottom is a rebranded Sylvania 6AS7GA.
  
 Some people say that the Sylvania 6AS7GA is just a relabeled 6080WC tube. Mybe - I have Sylvania tubes that say 6AS7GA on the glass and 6080WC printed on the original boxes.
  
 On the other hand, the Sylvania 6AS7GA tubes that I have with copper rods sound sweeter than the Sylvania silver rod 6080WC/6AS7GA tubes. The Sylvania 6080WC tubes that i have sound harsher than the copper rod 6AS7GA tubes.
  
 I paid between $3 and $10 for the 6AS7GA tubes (When i quote prices the shipping is always included in the price). Although the GE and Sylvania tubes are slightly different in construction I cannot hear any difference between them. I would like to think that the 6AS7GA tube has somewhat different specs than the 6080WC (unless it has both designations).


----------



## Lord Raven

I can try Elise as a preamp to my DAC/Amp but then I would require another DAC LOL 
  
 This might annihilate the universe


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 The Sony 110W ss amp I use has it's own preamp built in. I connect the Elise into a loop for a graphic equalizer. On the back of the integrated amp is a switch that I can use to instantly hear the difference with the Elise plugged in or not.
  
 The difference is something akin to a tepid glass of soda without fizz compared to a a good champagne......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Glad that you concur about the great sound of the GE 6AS7GA power tubes. The RCA 6AS7GA with the gray bottom is a rebranded Sylvania 6AS7GA.
> 
> ...


 

 Mordy, how do you find those tubes for that cheap prices. Amazing. Even if I do find it that cheap, shipping would cost twice as much for me.
 I personally think that the GE 6AS7GA sounded different from my HP 6080 or Dumont 6080WA.
  
 The GE 6AS7GA I refer to are from Parts Express. The older ones in white letterings, I just never did try to test it. I miss out on the auction very early on in my tube journey. They were recommended to me as being good when I first started out. Perhaps I should seek out a pair just to try it out.
  
 These ones:-

  
 This too


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> The Sony 110W ss amp I use has it's own preamp built in. I connect the Elise into a loop for a graphic equalizer. On the back of the integrated amp is a switch that I can use to instantly hear the difference with the Elise plugged in or not.
> 
> The difference is something akin to a tepid glass of soda without fizz compared to a a good champagne......


 

 Agree fully Mordy. Elise as a preamp to a receiver with dedicated preamp in sounds great. I really love it in home stereo. And I prefer good champagne


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I can try Elise as a preamp to my DAC/Amp but then I would require another DAC LOL
> 
> This might annihilate the universe


 

 LOL Raven, don't destroy the universe. Experiment conservatively.


----------



## Suuup

Whelp, I just dropped my T1's on the floor.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Finally got it done. FDD20 + 6N7G
  
 Thanks JV for excellent tutorial. I don't have ECC31 yet and currently pairing with Syl 6N7G. Initial impression is very promising. The extended high , wider and better holographic sound stage than 2x 6n7g. Sound stage that make your speakers, amp and the back wall disappeared.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Finally got it done. FDD20 + 6N7G
> Thanks JV for excellent tutorial. I don't have ECC31 yet and currently pairing with Syl 6N7G. Initial impression is very promising. The extended high , wider and better holographic sound stage than 2x 6n7g. Sound stage that make your speakers, amp and the back wall disappeared.




Excellent work CL!! Congrats!

Glad to hear you like the results!

And my goodness...what an impressive setup you have!!

Yea for us, the LUCKY ones!!!

P.S - 
Remember CL - the FDD20 will get better and better and better and better....

.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Excellent work CL!! Congrats!
> 
> Glad to hear you like the results!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks again JV,
  
 I am not sure my 12v DC - .8A is enough. Will my DC 12v adapter be enough to run 2xFDD20? I made 2 adapters but I only have one FDD20.


----------



## mordy

Here are some pictures of different 6AS7GA tubes:
  
 GE 80's production:


  
  
 GE 60's production comparison (newer tube on left, older on right:
  

  
 The base is taller on the older one, and the getter structure is different, circular vs rectangular. In addition, some older ones have copper rods (not pictured - in service, but otherwise looks identical):
  

  

  

  
 Here is a Sylvania:
  


 Here are the RCA rebranded Sylvania tubes:

  

  


 And finally the"schizophrenic" 6080WC/6AS7GA tube:
  

  
 They all sound good, with the nod going to the copper rods. There are actually four copper rods acting as heaters (outside x 2, and in the middle a double rod).
  
 The 6080WC/6AS7GA sounds more like the 6080 tubes I have from Sylvania, not as sweet as the 6AS7GA.
  
 Only my personal impressions - YMMV.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Thanks again JV,
> 
> I am not sure my 12v DC - .8A is enough. Will my DC 12v adapter be enough to run 2xFDD20? I made 2 adapters but I only have one FDD20.




No problem, CL, I am so happy you have experienced an FDD20 combo!

I use 12v 750ma and run two '20's with no problem at all. So your fine for 2x FDD20's.

Have not measured it yet and there is no 'official data sheet' for the FDD20 but it's believed to draw 0.32 ma of current per tube.

Cheers!

.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> No problem, CL, I am so happy you have experienced an FDD20 combo!
> 
> I use 12v 750ma and run two '20's with no problem at all. So your fine for 2x FDD20's.
> 
> ...


 
 JV,
  
 What do you do when Elise is not in used. Do you unplug the external power adapter? Can I just leave it on all time during burn in period?


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> JV,
> 
> What do you do when Elise is not in used. Do you unplug the external power adapter? Can I just leave it on all time during burn in period?




Hello CL..

I do unplug my 12v power, and recently bought an in-line switch to install, make shutting off/on easier. But I have also left the 12v burning for hours at a time.

Some say just leaving the heater on, is not the same as playing music (for burn in purposes) so the Jury is out on leaving the heater on, and having that count as actual burn-in, time...

.


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> Hypnos... both my tubeamps r retired
> Living off the 10.32 audiogd.


 
  
 Hey L....does that mean no Elise, lol?..._*je suis desole, mon ami!!!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


jazzvinyl said:


> Plenty of 6N7G's will come to the market. A little patience is all that is needed.


 
 Hi JV....you're beginning to sound very much like mordy!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but you're absolutely right - so long as they don't reappear at double/triple the price, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 LR's comment re a 'closed thread' sounds great in theory, but of course isn't feasible alas!  This really is the downside and dilemna...how do you spread the good word(s) to all those genuinely interested, without also playing right into the hands of the speculators/stock holders?...Impossible, I suppose!...
  


untilthen said:


> After 3 days of experimenting with using Elise as a preamp to the DV336se, I'm not convinced this is the way to go. Stretched soundstage or otherwise, I think it is diluting an otherwise splendid sound from Elise alone.
> 
> One thing that worries me is the drop in volume when paired this way. I have to dial up both volume to 11 to get gain similar to 9 when using Elise alone. I don't know why this would be the case.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...my gut feeling has been going in this direction for a long while now - and I'm so glad you have come to this conclusion...(so is my better half, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Which brings me nicely on to something I've been wanting to state for some time....ie. Elise is *so* good, she *does not need* any more expensive Glenn-style additions (or a tube rectifier, for example) to deliver superlative performance. And this is with 'just' good 6SN7/7N7s and relatively cheap alternatives to the stock powers. Upgrade to our latest drivers, and invest in some top-tier powers, and we have an amp that delivers *way* above its pricepoint.
  
 In addition, you have shown that - as Lukasz has stated - Elise *can indeed* drive low-impedance headphones extremely well...not just the 'optimum' higher-z ones. Those with low-z cans *can* therefore be assured of high quality sound, even though an OTL amp. This is no longer just a 'wishful thinking' statement, I'm glad to say...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> I think the FDD20 starts out the race a little behind the ECC31 in the bass department, and with lengthy burn in, catches up, then runs right past it.
> 
> It develops tremendous bass, but is tighter and more articulated than ECC31 bass (which is more subsonic/subwoofer/one notey).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey JV...I obviously need to get another FDD20 under way, but this time give it the _loooong_ time it needs before assessing - this is gonna be a _real__ly_ interesting exercise, to see how they compare to the 'magic combo' lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lord raven said:


> I know, I don't remember if he will move onto the pair of FDD20 tubes or not?
> 
> @hypnos1 please suggest, pair or ECC31 or a pair of FDD20?


 
 Hi LR...as I just mentioned, will have a go with 2x FDD20s - but it's gonna be a while before I even have the second, second tube done alas!!
  
 As well, so much will depend on the rest of your gear - for example, an overly bright system may well benefit from 2x ECC31s, whereas a darker one may prefer the FDDs. And another may well shine with the 20/31 combo. Plus, personal preference will also influence things, of course - there is no easy answer, or 'one size fits all'...as has been stated many times before, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


citizenlin said:


> Finally got it done. FDD20 + 6N7G
> 
> Thanks JV for excellent tutorial. I don't have ECC31 yet and currently pairing with Syl 6N7G. Initial impression is very promising. The extended high , wider and better holographic sound stage than 2x 6n7g. Sound stage that make your speakers, amp and the back wall disappeared.


 
  
 WELL DONE CL!...(love your setup, by the way!!).
  
 Yeah...that soundstage, eh?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but just you wait 'til all those gorgeous details and bass notes develop in the FDD20 - I'm drooling already...for _you!!!_
  
 And when you get that ECC31 in place...well...say no more, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

Phew got up today to read some really good posts and lovely system photos. I need a 2nd read again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  
 I like to see others stereo setups. Let the show and tell begin. Loving it.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Finally got it done. FDD20 + 6N7G
> 
> Thanks JV for excellent tutorial. I don't have ECC31 yet and currently pairing with Syl 6N7G. Initial impression is very promising. The extended high , wider and better holographic sound stage than 2x 6n7g. Sound stage that make your speakers, amp and the back wall disappeared.


 
*CL, very nice home stereo system you have there. Very neat too and symmetrical LOL. Those floor standers looks grand. I'm glad you get to try 2031 for yourself. I need to return to it for a longer burn in of my FDD20. I also want to do the 2 FDD20. So much to do but only 24 hours a day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
  


mordy said:


> Here are some pictures of different 6AS7GA tubes:
> 
> GE 60's production comparison (newer tube on left, older on right:
> 
> ...


 
_*Mordy, you deserve a medal for this comprehensive write up and excellent photos of the various 6AS7GA. This is the sort of work we need. Will benefit the community. Keep it up pal.*_
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...my gut feeling has been going in this direction for a long while now - and I'm so glad you have come to this conclusion...(so is my better half, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
_*Hi H1, there's a lot of gems here to glean over and once again you have surpass yourself with some profound words. *_
  
_*Indeed I'm now convince that Elise needs / deserves to stand alone. Anything else is heresy. My experiments are over in the name of sound science. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *_
  
_*Equally I'm besotted with that Glenn behemoth that appears in the link. I think 6 6BL7 output tubes will satisfy most people craving for the ultimate tube amp sound.*_
  
  
  
_*Finally, that statement of yours in bold above, has to be the quote of the thread. Even Albert Einstein would have been proud to utter that. It has been said many times by others before but not as well as you've put it there. You nail it. !!! *_


----------



## Lord Raven

Hello H1,
  
 I will be waiting for your review if you ever plan to go 2 x FDD20. All I have is a Geek DAC and Elise amp, Sennheiser HD600 brand new are on their way, actually I have never head an audiophile open back headphones before, I have no idea how would it all sound like. Geek DAC is neutral, maybe I need to give it a serious listening on HD600 cause my Focal Spirit One had a steep roll off on the higher frequencies and they always sounded lacking the sparkle and detail.
  
 Therefore, I cannot say my current setup Geek + Elise + HD600 will be warmer or brighter, therefore I am staying with ECC31 combo and waiting for more discoveries and revelation being made.
  
 Now tell me, where am I going wrong that UT has to testify every comment made in response to my posts? LOL
  
 PS This might statement might be the most definitive argument on ECC31 or FDD20 or their combination but it will only be complete once you do the FDD20 pair, so please do it hehe 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hypnos1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hi LR...as I just mentioned, will have a go with 2x FDD20s - but it's gonna be a while before I even have the second, second tube done alas!!
> 
> As well, so much will depend on the rest of your gear - for example, an overly bright system may well benefit from 2x ECC31s, whereas a darker one may prefer the FDDs. And another may well shine with the 20/31 combo. Plus, personal preference will also influence things, of course - there is no easy answer, or 'one size fits all'...as has been stated many times before, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

Spectre ..on Elise


----------



## UntilThen

No post from me today. Sad day as far as I'm concerned with that attack in Paris.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> No post from me today. Sad day as far as I'm concerned with that attack in Paris.


 
 Just heard of that sickening .


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah it seems a bit hard to get into the vibe of audio projects amongst that kind of inhumane barbaric acts. All terrorism has always made me wish I didn't have to be on the same planet as them - they shouldn't even be on this great planet!


----------



## Lorspeaker

dastardly act....
  
 i am waiting for the new heaven n new earth...
  
  
  
  
  
  
 ....and two ELISEs should light up the universe  
  
  
 ======
  
 song no.24 WestMinster Bridge...from the bond vid...pulsating !!


----------



## UntilThen

Posting will resume tomorrow, apologies.


----------



## UntilThen

I saw Spectre today. Love the movie and soundtrack. Now back home and listening to No24 Westminster Bridge on Tidal through Elise and HD650, sounds lovely. Recreates the movie experience again.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Here is a Sylvania:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If we get a bit technical, those rods are grid supports. The heaters are hiding inside the cathode sleeves. You can see the cathode sleeves through the grids. The cathodes get verrry hot when heated.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> If we get a bit technical, those rods are grid supports. The heaters are hiding inside the cathode sleeves. You can see the cathode sleeves through the grids. The cathodes get verrry hot when heated.


 

 Oskari is right as usual. This link to Thomas Mayer's site shows the internals. The cathode and the grid. The heater inside the cathode. The grid support is shown. This being a copyright site, again just read but don't reproduce materials and photos without permissions.
  
 http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/tube-of-month-6a6.html


----------



## Lord Raven

Great link. Thanks for the information. I'm going to investigate further into copper rods when they arrive. 

I have a question, why use copper for support rods? Why not anything else? Copper is expensive to be used in such scenario where there is nothing electrical going through them.


----------



## UntilThen

*Maybe* copper as support rods withstands heat better and obviously a splendid glow. Not that the tube makers care about a nice glow...but maybe they did? 
  
 Also when you buy pots and pans, those with copper base are extolled as being better...better conductor of heat I think.
  
 ...as if to support my rationale...I came across this....
  
*'Thermal conductor'*
 Copper is a good conductor of heat. This means that if you heat one end of a piece of copper, the other end will quickly reach the same temperature. Most metals are pretty good conductors; however, apart from silver, copper is the best.
  
 It is used in many heating applications because it doesn't corrode and has a high melting point. The only other material that has a similar resistance to corrosion is stainless steel. However, it's thermal conductivity is 30 times worst than copper's.
  
 Obviously I only found this out in the last 10 minutes thanks to the World Wide Web.


----------



## UntilThen

Sounds like James Bond likes to mix and match too. Shaken not stirred remember? He just love FDD20 with ECC31. Just listen to the soundtrack with these tubes with Chatham 6AS7G and it's glorious.
  
 There's something about Mary...I mean 2031.
  
 Some combo you get too much bass and low end emphasis (2 ECC31), others are exciting across the FR like the Mazda 6N7G or Visseaux 6A6 but with the 2031, you get the cream of ECC31 bass and the caviar of the FDD20.
  
 How do you like your whisky? Shaken or stirred? Your choice....
  

  
 Perhaps you prefer Cognac.

  
 Or how about a cocktail....


----------



## UntilThen

*What do drivers, powers and rectifiers do in a tube amp?*

I was a noob and didn't know better but since I'm so into tubes I better find out more. So I dig...and dig...and I uncover this as best answer.

*If you think it's wrong please suggest a better answer. Thanks !!! *

_The pre-amp (driver) valves do exactly that; they pre-amplify the signal to a level high enough to be consumed by the power valves; the pre-amp valves amplify and apply gain._

_The power amp valves then take this signal and 'really' amplify it; usually the more driven the amp (the louder you crank it), the more the power amp valves affect the tone, generally the more you crank the more break up/distortion/wideness of sound you get from the amp; the choice of power amp valve has a huge effect on this._

_The rectifiers takes alternate current(AC) and convert it to the direct current(DC) required by the valves._


----------



## Oskari

lord raven said:


> I have a question, why use copper for support rods? Why not anything else? Copper is expensive to be used in such scenario where there is nothing electrical going through them.


 
  
 Well, there's the grid voltage...
  

   





untilthen said:


> Also when you buy pots and pans, those with copper base are extolled as being better...better conductor of heat I think.


 
  
 ... but frying the grid would be a showstopper.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> ... but frying the grid would be a showstopper.


 
 Indeed LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I doubt they will fry the grid otherwise they wouldn't be used. I'm thinking copper is use as a support structure because they can withstand the extreme heat generated by the cathode.


----------



## Oskari

No, you wouldn't want to fry the grid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You might want to conduct heat away from it, though, or avoid hotspots.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> No, you wouldn't want to fry the grid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's a brilliant answer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Makes sense !!!


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> *What do drivers, powers and rectifiers do in a tube amp?*
> 
> I was a noob and didn't know better but since I'm so into tubes I better find out more. So I dig...and dig...and I uncover this as best answer.
> 
> ...


 
 Read a few opinions about what affects more the sound in a WA22 and this is what comes back more often  DRIVERS, RECTIFIER ,POWER TUBES


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> read a few opinions about what affects more the sound in a WA22 and this is what comes back more often  DRIVERS, RECTIFIER ,POWER TUBES


 

 Interesting !!! DRIVERS, RECTiFIER AND POWER TUBES....in that order?
  
 I like to know any logical reasons to that though. Or is it just a perception gain from extensive tube rolling to come to that conclusion?
  
 Some very profound discussions early on a Sunday morning...I need my bacon and eggs and coffee to get my brains rolling !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 As for Elise, I like to think both driver and power tubes are equally contributing to the outcome, depending on the combination you choose. With perhaps a slight tilt towards drivers because of the abundance of exotic driver tubes.


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > read a few opinions about what affects more the sound in a WA22 and this is what comes back more often  DRIVERS, RECTIFIER ,POWER TUBES
> ...


 
 Yes in that order , That's what i understood about it


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Read a few opinions about what affects more the sound in a WA22 and this is what comes back more often  DRIVERS, RECTIFIER ,POWER TUBES




Here is a side question about Rectifier tubes...

In a Headphone amp, application, is the rectifier tube used in a traditional rectifier role? 
IE: Part of the power supply circuit, to convert alternating current (AC) to direct current (DC)?

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is a side question about Rectifier tubes...
> 
> In a Headphone amp, application, is the rectifier tube used in a traditional rectifier role?
> IE: Part of the power supply circuit, to convert alternating current (AC) to direct current (DC)?
> ...


 

 Now I need more than the traditional breakfast. Eagerly waiting to hear the answer to this.


----------



## Lord Raven

Re corrosion, copper coins are used in oil rigs and underground excavation areas to detect gas leaks, they corrode very quickly. I just found this out in a training course I attended today, led by an instructor who worked at the Saudi Arabia's biggest oil company as a safety instructor. 
  
 Yes, copper is a good conductor of heat and electricity, but electricity can be understood, why is it used for heat? 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> *Maybe* copper as support rods withstands heat better and obviously a splendid glow. Not that the tube makers care about a nice glow...but maybe they did?
> 
> Also when you buy pots and pans, those with copper base are extolled as being better...better conductor of heat I think.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

See Oskari's last answer. It makes sense. Conducts heat away from grid...avoid hotspots.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hmm I think this could be the reason for its selection. Now the next question  Do they really improve sound? I don't have them so I can't comment.


----------



## UntilThen

They don't improve sound based on these 2 GE 6AS7G that I have. One has copper rod and one without. To me they sound the same unless someone wants to claim otherwise. Others with different brands may have different outcome so I wouldn't say this is the outcome for every tube and every ears.
  
 As always take things with a grain of salt until you hear it yourself and even then that's your own opinion as oppose to others.
  

  
 P/S There's no doubt the copper rod looks more sexy.
  
 So who wants to buy my copper rod GE 6AS7G for twice the price?


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is a side question about Rectifier tubes...
> 
> In a Headphone amp, application, is the rectifier tube used in a traditional rectifier role?
> IE: Part of the power supply circuit, to convert alternating current (AC) to direct current (DC)?


 
  
 Yes it is. the rectifier converts AC to DC, something like 100 to 200ma, in order to operate the amp. This is the actual current that flows through the tube, from cathode to grid to plate. This is a completely different circuit than that used to power the heaters. Many feel that vacuum tube rectifiers are quieter than solid state rectifiers, which are said to contribute a "switching sound". As I have never heard this sound, I can't say if this is true.
  
 Why do different rectifiers change the sound? It is because of something called "voltage drop". I discussed this a little in the old Elise thread.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/732875/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype/2490#post_11891219
  
 ~~~~~~~~~
  
 And why copper grid posts? In the 1940's and 50's, tubes were state-of-the-art. And therefore, considerable time and money was spent on improving them, making them better. However, by the late 1950's, solid state was on the rise and R&D dollars previously devoted to vacuum tube technology were redirected towards solid-state. And from that time on, any R&D devoted to vacuum tubes was not directed towards improving them, but towards making them cheaper to manufacture. I know I oversimplify, but when I see copper grid posts, it makes me feel that quality was still important. Copper is more expensive than steel. So the change from copper grid posts to steel suggests to me that that change was not made to improve the product, it was made to cheapen it. And this is why I tend to shun tubes manufactured after around 1960. But again, I know that I am oversimplifying this....


----------



## UntilThen

I was listening to the Sennheiser Momentum and it sounded really lovely but without any real soundstage. Then I put on my HD650 and I go wow....this is way better than the Momentum. No wonder there's an army of followers on the HD650.
  
 Then I put on the HE560 and I go WOW again. I hear everything now. It's got PRAT (pace, rhythm and timing).
  
 So next I want a HD800 and I expect to see the living daylights.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Yes it is. the rectifier converts AC to DC, something like 100 to 200ma, in order to operate the amp. This is the actual current that flows through the tube, from cathode to grid to plate. This is a completely different circuit than that used to power the heaters. Many feel that vacuum tube rectifiers are quieter than solid state rectifiers, which are said to contribute a "switching sound". As I have never heard this sound, I can't say if this is true.




Hello gibosi...

Do you know if the heaters in the Glenn amps are heated with AC or DC? And does the heater power supply use solid state rectifiers?

(( It's not a big deal either way, I am just curious ))

Appreciate...

.


----------



## UntilThen

*The story of my 4 Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 I first ordered 2 Tung Sol 6AS7G from eBay. They were priced at only $49 each which is a bargain compared to 2 other Chatham 6AS7G listed at that same time for $90 each. I thought they are the same. However a closer look at the seller's photos shows the TS I ordered have steel rods.
  
 Alas, I had wanted copper rods Chatham 6AS7G. So when an Aussie seller had a pair for sale at $120 I grab it as well. So I have 2 copper rods Chatham and I was happy. I thought to myself that when the TS 6AS7G arrives, I'll be able to compare the steel rods with the Chatham copper rods. So I eagerly awaited their arrival.
  
 Then they showed up and to my utter amazement and delight, the Tung Sol 6AS7G turned out to have the new wordings Chatham 6AS7G on it and they have copper rods. The other pair from the Aussie seller are obviously Chatham 6AS7G as well. So I ended up with 4 lovely Chatham 6AS7G but alas I'll never know now how a steel rod TS 6AS7G compares to a copper rod Chatham 6AS7G...not that I'm complaining !!!
  
 Left 2 are NOS Chatham 6AS7G dated 5922 ; Right 2 are 100 hours used Chatham 6AS7G dated 418. So 1959 and 1941 ???
 Btw the 5922 ones are from Skylab whom I'll be forever indebted for sending me the real Chathams


----------



## UntilThen

I've cancelled my Tidal's subscription because they are a continuously buffering music streamer. To think I've been a loyal customer for 2.5 months. For goodness sake I'm on 100mbps Cable broadband connection and I watch online movies without blinking. So it's your crappy music streamer service. I've no problem until 2 weeks ago....2 weeks and it's not resolved.
  
 Spotify Premium now and it's instant play when a song is selected. And CHEAPER. Goodbye Tidal I hope you wake up.
  
 And will be buying HD Tracks now...to supplement my 500 CDs ripped in as Apple Lossless on my dedicated iMac.
  
 Bliss now with Spotify Premium


----------



## MIKELAP

gibosi said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a side question about Rectifier tubes...
> ...


 
 Found this list of RECTIFIERS  regarding voltage drop            http://www.300guitars.com/articles/rectifier-tube-voltage-drop-chart/      and this link         http://www.fourwater.com/files/fullrect.txt


----------



## UntilThen

I'm really keen on rectifiers now. The Glenn amp does look very appealing now. WA22 is way more expensive than even the 6 6BL7 wonder.
  
@MIKELAP let's do an exchange programme for 3 months. We swap WA22 <> Elise.
  
 Look at this rectifier. I want !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 Perhaps you might want a cheaper imitation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 274B (5AR4 5U4G) Shuguang Vacuum Rectifier


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Thanks for correcting me on the heaters/copper rods. Why is it that on many tubes you only see the heater glow as two or four little dots, and with the 6AS7GA tubes the entire rod area is glowing - all four rods light up along the entire tube?
  
  
 UT,
 Regarding the discussion on how much power tubes contribute to the sound, the initial information I got from the LD thread was around 15%. However, IMHO the power tubes contribute much more to the sound. When I modded the LD MKIII and used 6080 2.5A tubes as power tubes, I was able to continue to play music even after shutting off the voltage supply to the power tubes. It seems to me that the power tubes lay the underlying foundation for the music and in addition to increasing the bass, flesh out the entire musical presentation. Think of the rhythm section in a traditional jazz band with a front line of tp,tb and cl, and a rhythm section of dr, sb, p and bj. Taking away the drums, string bass/tu and banjo and just leaving the piano results in a much thinner sound.
 In other words the power tubes notably augment the bass, and on a less obvious level augment the entire musical presentation.
 Just my 2 cents....
  
 Re rectifiers I have no experience and cannot comment.
  
 Gibosi, Re buying tubes from before the 1960's, The RCA/Sylvania 6AS7GA tubes I have have copper posts and are marked May 1977.
  
 UT: Re your Chatham tubes marked 418. It is reasonable to assume the 14th week  (April) 1954. The first 6AS7G tubes appeared 1945-46.
  
 PS: Do your GE tubes have the sandblasted GE dots on the glass?


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> I'm really keen on rectifiers now. The Glenn amp does look very appealing now. WA22 is way more expensive than even the 6 6BL7 wonder.
> 
> @MIKELAP let's do an exchange programme for 3 months. We swap WA22 <> Elise.
> 
> ...


 
 Would be killer shipping cost at 25 pounds well regarded ones these days are the BRIMAR 5z4g and at a very resonnable price 18.50 pounds i think at Langrex got a few of those


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> UT: Re your Chatham tubes marked 418. It is reasonable to assume the 14th week  (April) 1954. The first 6AS7G tubes appeared 1945-46.
> 
> PS: Do your GE tubes have the sandblasted GE dots on the glass?


 
 Wow how did you worked out the 1st 6AS7G are 1945-46? The codes are 3225922 on both while the other 2 are 418. April 1954 sounds old enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glass is smooth on both GE. The date codes are 3-09 188-4 and 4-09 188-5.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Easy:
  
_- First Source (s)_
_06.Nov.1945 : - - Manufacturers Literature RCA Data Sheet_
_10.Jan.1946 : Electron Tube Registration List 463_
  
 Here is the link from the Radiomuseum site:
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6as7g.html
  
 I have found this site very useful.
  
 Re the GE tubes, since there are no dots on the glass, perhaps these are rebranded RCA tubes. Could somebody weigh in on this?


----------



## UntilThen

Ah I see what you mean...you were referring to when 6AS7G came into production. I thought you meant my 1st set of Chatham 6AS7G with date codes of 3225922. 
  
 So I guess my 2 pairs of Chathams are 1954 and 1959.
  
 So my GE are 1953 and 1954 right?


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Would be killer shipping cost at 25 pounds well regarded ones these days are the BRIMAR 5z4g and at a very resonnable price 18.50 pounds i think at Langrex got a few of those


 
 Ok Mike I'll remember this beauty when the time comes. Wow Langrex at GBP18.5. On eBay there's a lot going for head spinning prices.


----------



## JazzVinyl

25 hours in an a spankin' brand new set of FDD20's from 1943.

They have "10 FEB 1943" on an Italian ministry of finance tax stamp, both stamps are exactly the same, on both tubes. 

They are labelled "Phillips Miniwatt FDD20" and had no grey paint applied as we saw on the RVC versions of the FDD20.

Manufactured during WWII - Italy was to surrender to the Allies 6 months after this tax stamp was applied.
Were delivered in the original factory packaging. Incredible to open "brand new" 72 year old tubes of this high caliber/quality (they will be 73 tears young on Feb 10, 2016). The wrappers smelled like 3-n-1 oil. They sound fantastic and will (I'm sure) improve as the RVC labelled FDD20's did. 

I am also thrilled with the automotive pinstripe as volume marker on the Elise, adds greatly to the enjoyment of the amp to glance over and know where the volume is set...








Cheers to us, the LUCKY ones!

--JV--

,


----------



## UntilThen

JV, those are crazy old tubes. 
  
 There's a set on eBay now with clear glass like yours that says NOS May 25, 1942. Bidding from Eur 47.90
  
 I'll stick to my 6 FDD20 from I don't know when...
  
 Also I'll be using one black adapter and one white adapter


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, those are crazy old tubes.
> 
> There's a set on eBay now with clear glass like yours that says NOS May 25, 1942. Bidding from Eur 47.90
> 
> ...




Hello UT...

I am so happy with the new set of FDD20's...Feb 10th is an important day of the year for me. There are several others sets of numbers on the tax stamp and on the base marking of the tubes that I relate to...also important dates to me and my family. I feel like it was providence that I owned these tubes. 

Kind of incredible, actually, I nearly fell over when I opened the ancient packaging and saw the relevant dates and numbers...I couldn't believe it.

"Panda" adapters is cool! Maybe only "half of an eye patch" will be needed, 'eh? LOL...

Will go look at the 1942 FDD20's...

Cheers...

--JV--

.


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> Do you know if the heaters in the Glenn amps are heated with AC or DC? And does the heater power supply use solid state rectifiers?
> 
> (( It's not a big deal either way, I am just curious ))
> 
> Appreciate...


 
  
 It is important to remember that every Glenn is custom built. If you want the heaters in your amp to run on DC, he will be happy to oblige. However, my amp uses AC to run the heaters, with one exception. The voltage doubling circuitry in the 6/12/25 volt switch results in DC for the 12 volt and 25 volt position. For what it is worth, I do not notice any difference in background noise between the 6 volt position, which is AC, and the 12 and 25 volt positions, which are DC.
  
 Also, there are no solid-state devices or circuit boards in my Glenn, only wires, sockets and passive components.
  


mordy said:


> Gibosi, Re buying tubes from before the 1960's, The RCA/Sylvania 6AS7GA tubes I have have copper posts and are marked May 1977.


 
  
 Yes, and the 6AS7 was one of the tubes I had in mind when I stated that I was oversimplifying a bit. It is my understanding that solid state replacements for small signal receiving tubes, such as 6SN7, were available by the late 1950's. However, this is not true in every application. For example, for power supply regulation, solid-state replacements for 6AS7-type tubes were not available until much later. So it seems reasonable to me to think that 6AS7-type tubes were considered state-of-the-art through the 1970s.


----------



## UntilThen

Behold FDD20 in all her glory. I use plastic wire sponge for dish washing, wet it and remove the paint easily. A bit over zealous maybe, I loosen the base a bit but no worries nail polish to the rescue.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Behold FDD20 in all her glory. I use plastic wire sponge for dish washing, wet it and remove the paint easily. A bit over zealous maybe, I loosen the base a bit but no worries nail polish to the rescue.




This one has a very gorgeous blue hue! Nice! 

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> This one has a very gorgeous blue hue! Nice!
> 
> .


 

 Photographer's skill LOL. I say to the FDD20, 'Look really blue or else....'
  
 Any idea what 2495 means?


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> It is important to remember that every Glenn is custom built. If you want the heaters in your amp to run on DC, he will be happy to oblige. However, my amp uses AC to run the heaters, with one exception. The voltage doubling circuitry in the 6/12/25 volt switch results in DC for the 12 volt and 25 volt position. For what it is worth, I do not notice any difference in background noise between the 6 volt position, which is AC, and the 12 and 25 volt positions, which are DC.
> 
> Also, there are no solid-state devices or circuit boards in my Glenn, only wires, sockets and passive components.




Hear ya on no Solid State devices aboard a Glenn amp! That makes it rather special, doesn’t it!

Appreciate your time in replying, g...

--JV--


----------



## UntilThen

gibosi said:


> It is important to remember that every Glenn is custom built. If you want the heaters in your amp to run on DC, he will be happy to oblige. However, my amp uses AC to run the heaters, with one exception. *The voltage doubling circuitry in the 6/12/25 volt switch results in DC for the 12 volt and 25 volt position.* For what it is worth, I do not notice any difference in background noise between the 6 volt position, which is AC, and the 12 and 25 volt positions, which are DC.
> 
> Also, there are no solid-state devices or circuit boards in my Glenn, only wires, sockets and passive components.


 
 I find the ability to switch voltage for 6/12/25 incredibly versatile. That alone makes me excited about this amp.
  
 G, could you describe the sound from your amp using your fav tubes? Some key sound characteristics. Using your HD700 obviously.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Photographer's skill LOL. I say to the FDD20, 'Look really blue or else....'
> 
> Any idea what 2495 means?




No idea. But both of my RVC's have a code on the base that have '50' in it and wondered 1950?

Funny the grey paint on the RVC's obviously the same phillips made tube, must have been obtained minus the Phillips Miniwatt FDD20 designation and RVC painted them grey and sprayed on the black RVC logo?

Mystery tubes! We may never know.

My RVC's larger codes say *2493*!!


.


----------



## UntilThen

This IMO takes the gong for the nicest looking tube. Notice the 4 strips of copper at the side of the round plates. They go around the top and bottom micas - real copper. The rest of the tube on close up is really striking and well made. When power on, it is also the tube with the most glow. Really striking and sounds great, fantastico.
  
 WOW - a quad (4) sold for US$270 on 3rd Nov 2015. These tubes have gone up in price faster than the best performing stock on the Stock Exchange !!!
  
 Mazda 6N7G
  

  
 Visseaux 6A6 with silver strips as oppose to the Mazda with copper strips. Cost cutting !!! BUT the Vis 6A6 shares the podium with the 2031 and Mazda in my books.


----------



## UntilThen

At the end of today, I'm at the 140 hours mark. Elise is now fully primed as far as I'm concerned. It is a mature sound. My FDD20 and ECC31 are just pass the 50 hours mark but sounded glorious. On Richard Clayderman now and those piano notes are just sublime. I'm lost in music for 20 consecutive days.
  
Panda eyes are staring at me. Waiting on the white adapter to arrive before I go full on with 2 FDD20. I'm keeping 4 of my FDD20 in their grey paint. They look purposeful in that greyness.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Re the GE tubes, since there are no dots on the glass, perhaps these are rebranded RCA tubes. Could somebody weigh in on this?


 
 I am almost certain they are as I stated in a much earlier post some time ago. I have 2 other RCA 6AS7G and I compared them to the GE on a listening test and they sounded similar to me. The GE tubes came in their original boxes looking very vintage.
  
 Even if they are not rebranded, they would have been constructed using the same stew and spices.
  
 The RCA - Radio Corporation of America. This is bigger than Toyota or was. Btw I find nothing offending with the sound from the RCA. It's a pair I could live with on an island if there were nothing else.
  
 Hey all of a sudden everything looks blue around me.


----------



## Lorspeaker

"Elise 2"  will have a rectifier....  it is an added dimension to tweak the sound, had loads of fun with my "old" amp...sobsob.


----------



## UntilThen

You almost tempt me to buy a Brimar 5z4g from Langrex but I'll pass. 
  
 My wish for Elise 2 is a switchable 6/12/25V


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *The story of my 4 Chatham 6AS7G*
> 
> I first ordered 2 Tung Sol 6AS7G from eBay. They were priced at only $49 each which is a bargain compared to 2 other Chatham 6AS7G listed at that same time for $90 each. I thought they are the same. However a closer look at the seller's photos shows the TS I ordered have steel rods.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...thanks for the compliments a while back, by the way!
  
 And WELL DONE on those Tung Sol/Chathams...a different beast indeed to the standard TS, which I'm sure is no more than a 'basic' RCA tube - good, but not in the same class IMHO...
  


lorspeaker said:


> "Elise 2"  will have a rectifier....  it is an added dimension to tweak the sound, had loads of fun with my "old" amp...sobsob.


 
  
 Aaah...all this talk of rectifier tubes. Not everyone is quite so enamoured of them, by the way...there are downsides...this link is just one alternative take on the subject, if anyone's interested : http://www.soldano.com/amp-help/tube-vs-solid-state-rectifiers/
  
 Plus, we have been getting great tweaking results from our drivers, powers and driver/power combinations, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. This linked site also has a very interesting article on point-to-point vs PCB layout...
  


untilthen said:


> Behold FDD20 in all her glory. I use plastic wire sponge for dish washing, wet it and remove the paint easily. A bit over zealous maybe, I loosen the base a bit but no worries nail polish to the rescue.


 
  
 Isn't this just one *beautiful *tube?...not to mention a fabulous-sounding one, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







... And at $9 a piece from that amazing listing that mordy found, MUST be the bargain of the Century!!!.....ENJOY....CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

I've everything I want now. A very good tube amp and all the essential tubes. Next year a Sennheiser HD800s.
  
 It's time to kick back and enjoy the music instead of being an audiophile....I should be a music-phile.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 150  hour mark here I come.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Why is it that on many tubes you only see the heater glow as two or four little dots, and with the 6AS7GA tubes the entire rod area is glowing - all four rods light up along the entire tube?


 
  
 In a small-signal tube one might see only the faint glow from the ends of the cathode sleeve(s). In contrast, the 6AS7G/6080

is a high-current device and needs the large brightly-glowing cathode area to emit enough electrons
has an open design so you can see the full length of the glowing cathode.


----------



## UntilThen

Every time you buy a good audio gear you enjoy it for a while and then start to wish for certain upgrades. I have been enjoying Elise on Barbara Streisand for the last 2 hours. Yes I listen to a wide repertoire of songs and genre. I marvel at the level of enjoyment I'm getting out of Elise. This is a truly remarkable tube amp. All the flimsy whimsy things that I wish as an upgrade pales into insignificance as I realised that Elise is already perfect as far as I'm concerned. I don't want or need anymore. She's the quintessence tube amp. Second time I said this and rightly so.
  
 I'm listening with FDD20 / ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G. In this combo as well as with the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6A6, it is sound perfection.
  
 If anyone is contemplating buying a tube amp now or upgrading into one, you are doing yourself a disservice bypassing Elise. She's is the best value tube amp on the market now and should have been priced much higher. She will be the first and only tube amp you'll ever need. The 6AS7 and 6SN7 family tubes are amongst the best out there and with the alternatives to those tubes also being usable in Elise, your tube choices are basically limitless.
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Every time you buy a good audio gear you enjoy it for a while and then start to wish for certain upgrades. I have been enjoying Elise on Barbara Streisand for the last 2 hours. Yes I listen to a wide repertoire of songs and genre. I marvel at the level of enjoyment I'm getting out of Elise. This is a truly remarkable tube amp. All the flimsy whimsy things that I wish as an upgrade pales into insignificance as I realised that Elise is already perfect as far as I'm concerned. I don't want or need anymore. She's the quintessence tube amp. Second time I said this and rightly so.
> 
> I'm listening with FDD20 / ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G. In this combo as well as with the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6A6, it is sound perfection.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo UT...the Feliks-Audio guys really have worked miracles with this amp - especially as at first glance, she may not _appear_ to be so super-special, lol! (Mind you, when you see that point-to-point work in addition to some PCB, it does indeed bode very well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And yes, the fact that we have shown a wide variety of tubes can also be used (even if adapting needed) with excellent results reinforces the Elise's credentials...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Let's just hope the price can stay as is for a good while yet, no?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and CHEERS! to you, amico mio...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...the Feliks-Audio guys really have worked miracles with this amp - especially as at first glance, she may not _appear_ to be so super-special, lol! (Mind you, when you see that point-to-point work in addition to some PCB, it does indeed bode very well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't need to worry about point to point or PCB ...I'm a computer person not an electronics guy. If it's bits and bytes I could talk with you meaningfully but where tube amp is concerned, for me, the important thing is how does it sound. I can say I've been floored when I first listen to Elise. I remember the first day. Simply stunning. 20 days later I'm still listening like a maniac and tube rolling like no body's business.
  
 What is more remarkable is when I use Elise as a preamp to my home stereo. I remember sitting in my couch staring at my speakers with my mouth open, wondering what the heck happen there. Those speakers are singing like never before. It was then that it dawn on me. I paid to get Elise as a headphone tube amp but I'm getting more than I bargain for. Not only did I get a top notch headphone amp but I also got a top notch tube preamp. That is priceless. I'm now torn between listening through my headphones or through my speakers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> Also, there are no solid-state devices or circuit boards in my Glenn, only wires, sockets and passive components.




Hello g - 

I see many a resistor in the photo of the bottom of Glenn's amp. That makes the statement that "there are no solid-state devices in your Glenn amp", incorrect. Resistors use current passing through crystal to achieve the desired electrical characteristic, and are indeed solid state devices. No circuit boards, no integrated circuits, check, okay.

He also uses modern capacitors. While it can be argued that capacitors use a small amount of electrolytic liquid to achieve its desired electrical properties, which therefore excludes them from the category of "solid state", Glenn clearly and wisely knows when a modern component is the best device to be employed. 

I feel strongly that power supplies that use solid state rectifiers are 100% reliable, safe, and are a superb choice for any electrical device that requires a steady supply of voltage and current under a wide variety of loads.

Never heard anyone claim to be able to "hear" solid state diodes "switching". I seriously doubt that is an actual fact, but sounds a lot more like an old 'urban legend' to me.

I'm sure the Glenn is a superbly crafted amp of an old school design that sounds great, but I would not think his choice of non solid state diodes in the power supply circuit, to necessarily relate to superior design over a device that does use them.

Just my humble opinion.

Your mileage will vary greatly, I'm sure. 

Cheers and good listening.



.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I don't need to worry about point to point or PCB ...I'm a computer person not an electronics guy. If it's bits and bytes I could talk with you meaningfully but where tube amp is concerned, for me, the important thing is how does it sound. I can say I've been floored when I first listen to Elise. I remember the first day. Simply stunning. 20 days later I'm still listening like a maniac and tube rolling like no body's business.
> 
> What is more remarkable is when I use Elise as a preamp to my home stereo. I remember sitting in my couch staring at my speakers with my mouth open, wondering what the heck happen there. *Those speakers are singing like never before. It was then that it dawn on me. I paid to get Elise as a headphone tube amp but I'm getting more than I bargain for. Not only did I get a top notch headphone amp but I also got a top notch tube preamp. That is priceless. I'm now torn between listening through my headphones or through my speakers.*


 
  
 Hey UT...how do I convince/persuade my better half I've now *got* to get some really top-notch speakers,lol?!! (Despite the miraculous improvement in my (smallish) Dynaudios, after I completely rewired with pure silver and connected direct to the crossover). Elise could well have a lot to answer for!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

H1, I'm a Dynaudio guy. My car has a nice pair of Dynaudio Esotec splits for the front doors. To this day they still make me smile whenever I listen to it.
  
 You must persuade your better half to get these Dynaudio excite x12...for a cheap $1200 lol.
  
 See stereophile's review:-
 http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/dynaudio_excite_x12_loudspeaker/#ZXPj0AGrHUtl2fOS.97
  
 Don't underestimate the size...these are top notch little wonders. With Elise as preamp I'm afraid you'll sell your Beyer T1 LOL.

  
 Or perhaps you might want a more upmarket Dynaudio Confidence c1  $6500/pair plus $450 for stands. 
 http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1107dyn/#3FL600JcGPMGzzbI.97

  
 Somehow I like small speakers that sound great and big. They look petite and sweet.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, I'm a Dynaudio guy. My car has a nice pair of Dynaudio Esotec splits for the front doors. To this day they still make me smile whenever I listen to it.
> 
> You must persuade your better half to get these Dynaudio excite x12...for a cheap $1200 lol.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aaaah...have the Focus 110 already, which appear to be better than the x12 - so it looks like I'll have to spend BIG bucks, lol!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Aaaah...have the Focus 110 already, which appear to be better than the x12 - so it looks like I'll have to spend BIG bucks, lol!!


 
 Well in that case you need the Confidence c1 or c4 lol.
  
 I just saw those Focus 110 mid/bass are similar to my Esotec mid/bass...in fact in Dynaudio literature they say it's Esotec mid/bass. Really nice drivers.
  
 Dynaudio confidence c4 should fit right in your living room....haha.

  
 Ah we mustn't forget...this is all about using Elise as preamp.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well in that case you need the Confidence c1 or c4 lol.
> 
> I just saw those Focus 110 mid/bass are similar to my Esotec mid/bass...in fact in Dynaudio literature they say it's Esotec mid/bass. Really nice drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed, UT...and what a marvellous job she makes of it too, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...streets ahead of the already great job done by my Vincent integrated!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed, UT...and what a marvellous job she makes of it too, lol!   ...streets ahead of the already great job done by my Vincent integrated!




I have some work to do in my "Analog Den" you guys have inspired me to try Elise as a preamp down there, again. 
Will try a different arrangement in the signal chain this time, and see what I get. 

Think I will try C3gS/5998 this time


----------



## UntilThen

This was how it all started...before Elise arrival. When I still have the DT880 and the Darkvoice 336se was the main amp and the Aune T1 was the DAC. Mountain Lion was the OSX. I've since upgraded to Yosemite and finally now OS X El Capitan.
  


 At night I'd switch off the lights, put on my favourite music and enjoy the colours and the sound.


 Then Elise came and this is the first photo of the new setup.


----------



## Suuup

Yesterday I received my pair of Tungsol 5998. Beautiful tubes. There was unfortunately bits of glass inside both of them, but that doesn't really matter (I guess?). I haven't been home much, so I haven't had too many hours with them yet, but my initial impression is really good.. When I look at the bottom end. 
  
 First off, the bass is amazing on these. There's a lot of it, but it doesn't sound muddy at all. The separation is absolutely phenomenal. When in the low registers, the sound easily becomes a bit muddy, but it doesn't do that at all with these. This is world class. I'm absolutely astounded. It has a good punch and slam. It also extends very deep. The sound is very articulate. 
  
 The highs: This is where it fails (in my opinion). I'm using them with my ECC31's, and it leaves something to be desired here. It's not _bad, _it's just not absolutely jaw dropping like the rest of the experience. The highs sounds a bit recessed to me (is that even a thing?). There is no sparkle. 
  
 Overall I'm really happy with the 5998's. I believe the 2031 combo will take care of the highs. And even if not, it's not a catastrophe. It's still silky smooth, it's just that one last little bit. It's a wild chase. 
  
 In other news, I have finally found a 12V power supply. I hooked up my FDD20 + adapter and.. Nothing. No light. I look at the wires, and realize one of them didn't make contact. I try again, and it lights up beautifully. Plug it in, turn on the Elise, and... Sound? Yea, there's sound. Good sound? I haven't even turned on the volume. It's buzzing like crazy. I'm not sure what to do now. It's humming very loudly and it hums even louder when I dial up the volume. 
 I just applied another layer of glue (I have no nail-polish), thinking there may still be a connection? It's unlikely though, as I've done plenty of layers already. 
  
 As a last, _maybe funny, _note, I accidentally glued my mouse to my mousepad..... That wasn't funny actually..


----------



## Lord Raven

Send three emails to sellers asking for refund, it has been more than a month that I did not receive any shipment. Only adapters arrived from China and this was supposed to be slow. 
  
 Please tell me how to resolve this matter on eBay? I have never ever done shopping on eBay, only bought things directly with the sellers to this point. I think tube rolling is a messed up business for me if I stay in this country. Maybe the customs have withheld all the sexy looking tubes.
  
 What should I do? So far I am freaking out and sent emails via eBay to sellers asking for refund. WTH!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

My problems just started to look small 
  
 I think the hum will go away. What connection are you trying to avoid by nail polishing terminals?
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> As a last, _maybe funny, _note, I accidentally glued my mouse to my mousepad..... That wasn't funny actually..


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi H1,
  
 Where is that 9$ listing?  I am interested  Hell with the shipping company but I will try again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Isn't this just one *beautiful *tube?...not to mention a fabulous-sounding one, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Yesterday I received my pair of Tungsol 5998. Beautiful tubes. There was unfortunately bits of glass inside both of them, but that doesn't really matter (I guess?). I haven't been home much, so I haven't had too many hours with them yet, but my initial impression is really good.. When I look at the bottom end.
> 
> First off, the bass is amazing on these. There's a lot of it, but it doesn't sound muddy at all. The separation is absolutely phenomenal. When in the low registers, the sound easily becomes a bit muddy, but it doesn't do that at all with these. This is world class. I'm absolutely astounded. It has a good punch and slam. It also extends very deep. The sound is very articulate.
> 
> ...




Hello Suuup....

Glad you like the 5998's! Sounds like they will be YOUR cup of tea!!!

On the FDD20, welcome to the need to ground that 12v power supply!!

They way most have done it, is to run a wire from the Neg side of the 12V supply to a good ground. You tried grounding your entire Elise and you said it didn't work. I suggested you run the wire around a loosened Elise foot and tighten back up, but you said it made no difference in HUM. I looked at my Elise bottom today and saw there is flat black paint all about, and this may have impeded your ability to obtain a good ground.

Now, lets get the FDD20 power supply grounded to eliminate the loud noise/hum you are experiencing. 

The wire you used for the Elise foot, over to bare copper on a heater pipe should work, dandy. Determine the negative side of the 12v supply (it will usually be the side that does *not* have any white stripe or writing. Should have an all black wire from your 12v supply and a wire with a white stripe or "+" symbols or white lettering. White stripe/lettering/+ sign side should be positive (+) and all black wire should be negative (-).

You want the ground from bare copper heater pipe added to neg side of 12 supply as it goes in to the FDD20 and it should then become dead silent.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Send three emails to sellers asking for refund, it has been more than a month that I did not receive any shipment. Only adapters arrived from China and this was supposed to be slow.
> 
> Please tell me how to resolve this matter on eBay? I have never ever done shopping on eBay, only bought things directly with the sellers to this point. I think tube rolling is a messed up business for me if I stay in this country. Maybe the customs have withheld all the sexy looking tubes.
> 
> What should I do? So far I am freaking out and sent emails via eBay to sellers asking for refund. WTH!!!!


 

 After sending email to the seller enquiring about non delivery, if you get no reply then start a return request and state reason as non delivery. Once done, seller and eBay will be notified that you have an issue formally. Thereafter if seller still doesn't respond after 5 days, eBay will intervene on your behalf. eBay will also keep you in the loop via email.
  
 There's no need to panic. This is standard procedure. If still in doubt, call eBay and speak to a representative. They are very helpful and trained in these sort of issues.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Yesterday I received my pair of Tungsol 5998. Beautiful tubes. There was unfortunately bits of glass inside both of them, but that doesn't really matter (I guess?). I haven't been home much, so I haven't had too many hours with them yet, but my initial impression is really good.. When I look at the bottom end.
> 
> *First off, the bass is amazing on these. There's a lot of it, but it doesn't sound muddy at all. The separation is absolutely phenomenal. When in the low registers, the sound easily becomes a bit muddy, but it doesn't do that at all with these. This is world class. I'm absolutely astounded. It has a good punch and slam. It also extends very deep. The sound is very articulate. *
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Suuup, looks like you have highs and lows ...joy and anguish I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JV has already told you what to do regarding the hum. Without grounding the FDD20, even I get loud hum and I am suppose to be hum free. Once grounded, it's total silence.
  
 ECC31 / 5998 ....depends on individuals. Our ears and preference are never alike. Whilst I enjoy that combo initially, now I find that it lacks sparkle ...as you noted in the top end. Primarily because I feel ECC31 focus is on mid and bass, especially the latter where it's strength is. I suggest you to try FDD20/ECC31 or 2 Mazda 6N7G or 2 Visseaux 6A6 or NU 6A6 or Fivre / Visseaux 6N7G. In those combos, you will get what you want. Other good combos are C3g/5998, Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top/5998, 7N7/5998.
  
 Experiment 5998 with different drivers. It's the most exciting power tube for me. Those guys on the Crack forum really love the 5998. As for the loose glass, not to worry. Just leave it at the bottom and don't shake it unnecessary. They don't affect sound quality.
  
 Enjoy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P/S Your impression in bold is a very accurate description of 5998. 5998 with the right drivers will lift the whole FR and brings sparkle to everything. It's the most exciting tube since the moon walk was invented. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Glue is messy to apply. Go and buy a clear nail polish.


----------



## UntilThen

Sup, it pays to have a few different sets of power tubes. Sometimes you might want a more mellow tone. Now that you have the 5998, Mullard 6080 and Svetlana 6H13C, you've 3 variations. Seek out GE 6AS7GA and Chatham 6AS7G when funds are available. Even the French Thompson 6080WA..those are cheap and good. Then you're basically done with power tubes. Unless a GEC 6AS7G falls from the sky.
  
 Save your money now and buy a nice pair of speakers...like those Jamo. 
  
 Meanwhile 2031 with Chatham 6as7g are my tubes for today. Still a firm favourite. Sometimes I prefer to pair the 2031 with Chatham rather than the 5998. Depends on my mood.


----------



## mordy

What happens when you get too cold? You shiver....
  
 Suddenly my 6N7G Mazda/GE 6AS7GA combination started to sound muddied and lifeless. Touched the chassis of the Elise amp. Ice cold. Touched the glass on the Mazda tubes - cold. Touched the bases of the 6AS7GA power tubes - warm. Touched the glass -well, not for too long, too hot for comfort.
  
 It occurred to me that the the two fans make the Mazda tubes too cold to operate properly. Switched off the fans - the beautiful sound came back.
  
 Another scientific temperature test - touched the transformer housing - cozy warm on the slightly hot side, but still no problem resting the temperature probe on it (my hand). Touched the glass on the Mazdas - quite hot - can't keep my fingers there too long, but no fear of getting burned. What about the power tubes? Nope - not taking any chances - too hot to touch (I have experience..).
  
 This is the way to go!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Meanwhile 2031 with Chatham 6as7g are my tubes for today. Still a firm favourite. Sometimes I prefer to pair the 2031 with Chatham rather than the 5998. Depends on my mood.




I am 2031 and 6AS7G tonight too and it's sounding absolutely amazing...

.


----------



## UntilThen

I just aim a stand fan at the lowest speed in the direction of Elise. She's cool that way. I really don't need to cool her that way. I just feel it's better especially when it's a long listening session. As for my Mazda, I've not noticed any difference whether it's cold or hot.
  
 Spend a whole morning rearranging my computers. Not an easy tasks with all those cables but gives me a chance to vacuum it as well. So some eye candy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> It occurred to me that the the two fans make the Mazda tubes too cold to operate properly. Switched off the fans - the beautiful sound came back.




Amazing, Mordy...that you can cool the system down so much that the Mazda 6N7G's cannot operate properly!

The Polar Elise!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I am 2031 and 6AS7G tonight too and it's sounding absolutely amazing...
> 
> .


 
 Are you listening to the same songs too? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't wait for my FDD20 white adapter to come.


----------



## UntilThen

The Polar Elise...hahahaha ...way to go Mordy !!!
  
 I'll try water cooling on Elise like they do in super dandy PC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 See this could have been water cooled.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Are you listening to the same songs too?
> 
> Can't wait for my FDD20 white adapter to come.




I doubt it...no other ECM fans on the thread 

We cross paths at the wonderful female vocalists, however. I did to Rene Olstead's album Skylark in its entirety. What an amazing young lady, she is.

Love your Panda, UT...great!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

ECM - Edition of Contemporary Music....Initially I thought it's Electronic Choir Music haha.
  
 Well ECM is Jazz right?
  
 Is Suuup mouse still stuck?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> ECM - Edition of Contemporary Music....Initially I thought it's Electronic Choir Music haha.
> 
> Well ECM is Jazz right?




Spacey type Jazz...most ECM artists do not like to be pidgeon holed into a specific genre. 

It's a popular label in Europe and Scandanavia. 

It has always resonated with me for some reason 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Would you consider Enigma ECM? ...because I dig that a lot ..sends my heartbeat faster into rapid meditation ...try it !!!
  
 Try...Sadeness - Part 1 (Violent US remix) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thunderous bass from ECC31 on that ...this is really good on a tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 For ECM, try Spotify for free. 
  
 Hmmm I like it...they have playlists for ECM
  
 Try this


----------



## UntilThen

Purple with FDD20/ECC31 and Chatham 6AS7G


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, I've just done a painfully extensive comparison between my new electrostatic rig and the the HD 650 - and you may be surprised but some of my findings were actually in favor of the dynamic headphones. Check it out, maybe you would have any comments:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/581491/koss-esp-950-thread/2010#post_12080934
  
 Also as I'm sure you would be pleased, all the magnificent reviews of the 650's pairing with the Elise still have me interested to get this amp, even though I have an electrostatic setup. To be honest, I'm guessing the Elise on the 650 with the right tubes could sonically surpass this rig, because it's just a mid-tier setup, and has it's shortcomings. 
  
However I will have to wait until sometime next year to afford it.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi DL, it's good you get to try for yourself electrostatic and dynamic headphones with different amps. I have no experience with electrostatic. I have listen to planar magnetic HE560 and HD650 a lot though on Elise and also on a previous JDS Lab o2+odac and Darkvoice 336se, also Aune T1.
  
 Whilst I really enjoy the extra details and clarity from the precise and fast HE560, I find myself reaching for the HD650 more often when I just want to relax and listen to music. That is the appeal of HD650. If you aren't fussy about hearing everything, it's a very comfortable and nice headphone to listen to. It's no surprise there's an army of followers of the HD650. Having 2 headphones, one revealing, the other relaxing, is good though because you can pick which to listen to depending on your mood.
  
 Now my next headphone is the HD800. Is it the best headphone for a relaxing listen? Well depends on who you ask. I know a lot have bought HD800 but sold it later even though they have paired it with excellent tube amps like the LF339, Woo Wa2, etc.
  
 So why do I still want to try the HD800? Well for one I need to know for myself what the king of dynamic headphones can do and secondly I just love a comfortable wearing headphone. Sennheiser HP are the most comfortable to wear as far as I'm concerned. I'm referring to the oval shape ones as in the HD600 / HD650. It covers over your ears nicely and completely. I had the DT880 once. The velour pads are the softest that I know of. Yet after wearing the DT880 for 2 hours I'd want to rest my ears. The pads were just sitting on my ears...some part of it, making it uncomfortable and irritating.
  
 Now I know the HD800 shape completely covers your ears and at the weight it is, it has to be the most comfortable full size headphone there.
  
 So that's it...my thoughts of my favourite Sennheisers ....if only I could just have a 30 mins listen of the new Orpheus 
  
 P/S there is no doubt in my mind at all the Elise is a perfect tube amp for the HD650...and I am almost confident it will be as well for the HD800.
  
 Sennheiser, I hope you're reading this. I deserve a free listen of the Orpheus after this wonderful writeup of your HPs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ok that's just joking...everything I wrote is true.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I don't know if it's Elise reaching the 150 hours mark or my FDD20/ECC31 getting more hours in...about 60 hours now. With the Chatham 6AS7G, this is the Creme de menthe. Sparkling sweet, mint-flavored alcoholic drink. Everything sparkles. Even my headphone HD650.
  
 Music from the kungfu panda...you need a black and white adapter for the fdd20 to create this magic.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi Matt, I just basically posted that because I thought some of you may be impressed to see that the HD 650's can be comparable to (some) electrostats - and about the possibility of Elise outshining an electrostat rig (I will have to compare in the future).
  
 Generally speaking, myself and several other Head-Fi'ers have found that the 'house sound' of Beyerdynamic is brighter with shrill / harsh treble and slightly cleaner, whilist Senn. is generally darker and more lush with sweet / smooth treble. 
  
 BTW, do you still see the HD 650's as lacking some detail even with the best tube setups you've found on the Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

Hello again DL...
  
 Yes good of you to do that comparison. Sennheiser will give you a free listen of the Orpheus. Yes I regard the HD650 as a once capable Sennheiser flagship. It is still note worthy. It's still selling like hotcakes. Also thanks for the reassurance regarding Elise. I know she is the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fifth Element remember?
  
 I wouldn't call the DT880 treble shrill or harsh or you'll have a horde of Beyer's fan chasing you around the block. Very clear high extended treble yes. Treble heads will like it. Now they will chase me for sure for calling them treble heads. I kind of like the DT880 actually but I prefer HD650 for sound and comfort. Wish I had kept the DT880 to listen with Elise. I can only imagine it to be good.
  
 Listening to HD650 on it's own, you'll never miss anything. It's all there. It's music, what more do you want.
  
 However if I go from the HD650 to the HE560 then I see the heavens open and the rainbow before my eyes. You wouldn't notice until you hear a more revealing headphone. I regard the HE560 in that category. I believe the HD800 and T1 will do that too if not a lot more for sure.
  
 Should you worry about the lesser details the HD650 has in comparison to HE560 or HD800? No....what you don't hear won't damage your ears. I was offered this advice that when I get the HD800, I shouldn't think that I can discard the HD650 straight away. Hang on to it for dear life. The 2 co-exists.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a bit of buzzing sound when I inserted a new FDD20 in place of the burn in one. There's only 2 reasons I can think of. One, it's a new tube and it needs to buzz a bit. Two, somehow I have the positive and negative wires inside the adapter crosshair touching. I remove the rookie tube and replace it with the veteran and all is well. 
  
 Any other explanation?


----------



## UntilThen

Yo....I bought Audirvana Plus license. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now my Apple Lossless files sound like what they should be. Most at 192 kHz. 500 cd and growing. There's real sparkle now in the music. Big improvement.


----------



## Lord Raven

Laughing my way to the central post office lol 2nd time, wish me luck guys  I deserve to tube roll at least once in my life.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Generally speaking, myself and several other Head-Fi'ers have found that the 'house sound' of Beyerdynamic is brighter with shrill / harsh treble and slightly cleaner, whilist Senn. is generally darker and more lush with sweet / smooth treble.




Hello DL...

I find pretty much everything you say regarding Beyer vs Senn to be 180 degrees out of sync.

Everyone hears differently. 

The only thing we know for sure is that no matter what brand of headphone you consider "sweet / non-shrill"...the Elise will absolutely "make the best" of them. 



.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yes well, depending on which model of Senn. or Beyer. the differences will vary widely; but I was basically making a blanquet-comparison of the likes of DT-770 / 880_-ish_ to HD 5xx - 800_-ish _and centaintly there are a lot that don't fit into that comparison like on-ears, IEMs, etc. but strangely I've made those same general statements elsewhere and others agreed with it. I also have DT 880's (the one that caused my tinnitus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and am holding onto those as well as others I don't use in case some new amp may come along and make them shine sometime in the future. I think that's better than giving up on a 'can because there's always hope - that is, unless it's a crappy model because there's only so much a sound can change.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> I've made those same general statements elsewhere and others agreed with it. I also have DT 880's (the one that caused my tinnitus  )




Wow, I see!
Sorry to hear of the tinnitus, DL. 

I have a touch of it, too, but blame it on many a "WAY TOO LOUD" live show that I attended, in my youth.
Luck in the pursuit of perfection, with cans and amp, DL.


----------



## Lord Raven

Still got nothing :/ The post office is playing games with me, on the phone they tell me to come pick it up, when I go there then they have nothing for me.


----------



## Suuup

Okay, I have to check. I got a pair of 6C8G waiting for me at the post office, and the adapters will most likely arrive tomorrow. The Elise can run those, right?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Okay, I have to check. I got a pair of 6C8G waiting for me at the post office, and the adapters will most likely arrive tomorrow. The Elise can run those, right?


 

 Should be...
  
 6F8G is listed as an alternative in the Elise manual - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.6 Ampere

 6C8G - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.3 Ampere 
  
 Let us know how it sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

Today's listening session tubes are a pair of ECC31 / Chatham 6AS7G. I've always considered the ECC31 as the benchmark for my drivers. Yesterday was a whole day spend with FDD20/ECC31. It sounded really good and is fresh in my mind for a direct comparison with 2 ECC31 today. I'll be updating this post.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Should be...
> 
> 6F8G is listed as an alternative in the Elise manual - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.6 Ampere
> 
> ...


 
 That's what I thought as well. Hope it works. Will let you know of the sound, though I don't expect anything crazy. They just look really good.


----------



## hpamdr

After two weeks and back to home, the Elise Sing really...
 I did choose as Tube Set GE 6AS7GA and 6N7GT Visseau this combination give me a lot with Beyer T1.
 At home I received a pair of 5998 this tube with 6N7GT is really "GREAT" for bass and soundstage T1 pair perfectly with it. T1 have bass punchy and well controlled.
  
 I also did some try with HD650 and it was like if I had never listened them before. I think that the 5998 give to much for the HD. I prefer 6AS7GA or CSF 6080WA that have a bit less gain and coloration and let the driver have more freedom. When listening some pop, jazz or vocal singer the medium is really great. The HD650 is now more dynamic and precise The natural warm sound of HD650 is even more relaxing than it was with my favorite tracks.
 HD650is more sensible to hum and tube micro-phonic noise than the T1.
  
 I still prefer the T1 but I still find HD650 more relaxing with jazz, pop, blues and soft rock. T1 is more punchy and more precise and for classical music , piano and organ it is really wonderful !
  
 The Elise transfigured both headphone I have and you can really find with tube switching (I only did few for now)  influence of driver and power tubes. The amp is really great as it open the door for tube choice, pairing, experiment and seems to reveal tube's sound signature...


----------



## UntilThen

I agree with what's written entirely. The star of the show is undoubtedly Elise. She's superbly crafted and very adaptable to all tubes. She will bring out the best in tubes. Almost type 'bass in tubes'.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 5998 is an excitement plus power tube. It has so much energy, it will energised your songs, your body too !!! As noted bass is punchy and controlled. I love vocals through this tube. It just comes out alive. That said, I actually use my Chatham 6AS7G more these days...I just love the more soothing, breezy sound of the Chatham. It's like a bright Spring day.
  
 HD650 ...what more needs to be said. For that matter, HD580, HD600 will fit right in with Elise. If you love HD650 and I do, Elise does wonders with it. It's such a great pairing that you'll forget your analytical alter ego and settle into a relax mode for a night of great music listening.
  
 I'm more than convinced now that everyone should have 2 pairs of headphones. One to have a relaxing listen and another where details are important as in classical music. This is where my HE560 pairs beautifully with Elise.
  
 Elise will appeal to lovers of the tube amp sound. We just love the warmth and lushness and in Elise case it has great transient response and PRAT(pace, rhythm and timing) too. That is truly remarkable.
  
 P/S I forgot to add...DT880 and associated family of Beyer headphones will fit in perfectly too. How do I know? I spend 2 months with a DT880 on a DV336se. I know DT880 will sound great with Elise.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> I agree with what's written entirely. The star of the show is undoubtedly Elise. She's superbly crafted and very adaptable to all tubes. She will bring out the best in tubes. Almost type 'bass in tubes'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Totally agree , don't forget " cohesive holographic sound stage" THE MAGIC SOUND OF big E


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Suuup,
  
 Thank you for ECC31, It arrived at door steps on Saturday.. She is wearing 2031 now and looking sexy. I am a believer of 2031. Thanks to Colin for discovery of 2031.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Totally agree , don't forget " cohesive holographic sound stage" THE MAGIC SOUND OF big E


 

 Haha Elise has so many attributes that I would often miss out some. Of course soundstage...humongous. Attack, sustain and decay too is spot on. Don't want to use the FE again.
  
  
  
  
  
  
 FE = Fifth Element


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Suuup,
> 
> Thank you for ECC31, It arrived at door steps on Saturday.. She is wearing 2031 now and looking sexy. I am a believer of 2031. Thanks to Colin for discovery of 2031.


 

 Hi CL, I'm glad you get to try that special concoction 2031. It's a very potent brew.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Suuup,
> 
> Thank you for ECC31, It arrived at door steps on Saturday.. She is wearing 2031 now and looking sexy. I am a believer of 2031. Thanks to Colin for discovery of 2031.




YEAH!!

Another 2031 aficionado!!

Congrats to CL...!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Such a BIG box just for 2 FDD20. Finally all my FDD20 arrived. 6 stooges.


----------



## UntilThen

I think xulingmrs is confused. ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters came and she labelled it as FDD20 to 12SN7 adapters, which I also ordered one from her but haven't arrived yet.
  
 These gold adapters are very nice and very well made. No slanting tubes. 
  
 Oh these adapters are better sounding lol. I'm hearing a difference hahaha.


----------



## UntilThen

Gold ECC31


----------



## mordy

Today's topic is Polar Inertia.
  
 Let me explain: I discovered that my wonderful Mazda 6N7G tubes started to sound harsh with a distorted treble.
 Finally I figured out that the two fans I use make the tubes too cool - the tubes feel cold to the touch and are not up to operating temperature. Shutting off the fans brought back the wonderful sweet sound and 3D wall-to-wall sound stage.
  
 Somebody joked that I have Polar tubes. Got me thinking - I was trying out the 6BL7 1.5A tubes as _driver _ tubes with an external power supply, They sounded very promising with a stupendous bass, but after some time the sound became distorted in the treble - yucky, unpleasant, shrill and thin sounding. The longer I let the tubes play, the worse they sounded.
  
 Decided to try the 6BL7 sibling - the 6BX7. The 6BL7 is 19, the 6BX7 is 15 - very closely related. Just kidding, the amplification for the BL is 19 and for the BX 15; otherwise I don't know what the difference is - both are 1.5A tubes.
  
 Basically the same problem with the sound - bass is very good, but the treble horrible. I was very disappointed - I thought that I was onto something.
  
 That's why I held off writing about them.
  
 This morning it dawned upon me: Maybe these tubes are too cold in my fan setup to work properly? In order to use these tubes in the Elise I had to concoct an adapter inspired by the leaning tower of Pisa.





  




  
 Here are the building blocks:
  




  
 From left to right: Octal socket saver (to preserve the socket in the Elise and to act as heat insulator), 9pin socket extender with wires for external voltage source [custom made] (15A 4-32V), 9pin to octal adapter, octal to 9pin adapter.
  
 Would have been much neater with an octal socket saver with the heater wires coming out from it, but I have not been able to find an octal socket saver that comes apart with a bolt like the 9pin extender.
  
 So I had to take out the Elise from my equipment shelf to leave ample space above it for cooling. I used a very sophisticated shelf support for the amp - a little plastic step stool about a foot high.
  
 Here is an action picture: I used two different 1.5A tubes that were sold to me as 6BL7 tubes, but I suspect that the tubes pictured are 6BX7; the markings are worn off.
  




  
 Both tubes are a Sylvania near pair (1951-and 1953 Sylvania/Zenith tubes).
  
 PA closeup (Pisa Adapter):




  
 After using these tubes several hours without fan cooling the sound remained the same. Next put in the pair of 6BL7  I initially had used. This 6BL7GT pair sounds way better than the pair pictured above in the test setting.
  
  
 Here are pictures of the little over achievers:
  




  




  




  
  
 Here is what I wrote initially about these Sylvania 6BL7GT tubes:
  
 Question:

 What do you get when you cross a Mazda 6N7G with a C3g?

 A 6BL7GT.

 Anybody out there that is able to try the 6BL7 tubes?

 I am amazed at the sound. Seems that my bargain tubes may be new, because they start to sound better - the sound stage is opening up. At first I thought that they were used because of how they looked. The seller stated that they measured 55/58 and 54/50 with a minimum good being 25, so it is possible that they measure NOS.

 Both are rebranded Sylvania. One is labeled Philco from Nov 1952 and the other is labeled Automatic Radio from July 1951.

 Man, these tubes opened up now (after some 30 hours) - can't believe my ears: MONSTROUS, THUNDEROUS BASS as if I just connected a humongous sub woofer. Can't believe this...

 Played a drum solo - never heard my system with so much slam and impact, going so deep. This 6BL7GT is a 300lb quarter back. Clean, clear, controlled bass and sub bass. The mid range and treble are excellent. Superb sound stage.

 Am I imagining this? Is this really true?

 There are over 300 listings on eBay for the 6BL7 with many starting at under $5. Was going to buy them all and make a killing, but resisted for every body's benefit lol!

_Fellow Elise owners - this is a discovery._
  
 OK - that's what I wrote two weeks ago. And today, without the polar inertia freeze I can now truly agree with my initial impression.
  
 These American bargain tubes will blow them furrin' $90 tubes into the weeds!
  
 Just remember that you must have an external power source to drive these tubes that draw 1.5A, whereas the Elise is limited to 1A tubes as drivers.
  
 These tubes are very quiet, no hum with headphones. Instead of 9am the volume has to be set at 11am for the headphones.
  
 In conclusion, quoting Nic Rhodes: These are cracking tubes!
  
 Would appreciate feedback from others re these tubes.
  
 Disclaimer: YMMV. I can only compare with the Mazda 6N7G.
  
 Still have a feeling that this Chevy may outrun the Italian, British and French Exotics.....


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Hi CL, I'm glad you get to try that special concoction 2031. It's a very potent brew.


 
  


untilthen said:


> Hi CL, I'm glad you get to try that special concoction 2031. It's a very potent brew.


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> YEAH!!
> 
> Another 2031 aficionado!!
> 
> Congrats to CL...!!!


 
 I was sure at the beginning, it was too bright on top end and too boomy at the bottom. 15 hrs in and it starting to reveal the sound of 2031. Was it too bright for you at the beginning?
  
 Note : My FDD20 does not hum(without grounding). Lucky?????


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> After two weeks and back to home, the Elise Sing really...
> I did choose as Tube Set GE 6AS7GA and 6N7GT Visseau this combination give me a lot with Beyer T1.
> At home I received a pair of 5998 this tube with 6N7GT is really "GREAT" for bass and soundstage T1 pair perfectly with it. T1 have bass punchy and well controlled.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you're also loving this seductress, hpamdr...can't wait for you to have ECC31s, FDD20s or the 'magic combo' (20/31) caressing your brain - especially with your T1s, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


citizenlin said:


> Totally agree , don't forget " cohesive holographic sound stage" THE MAGIC SOUND OF big E


 
 Sounds like Elise has yet another besotted lover...boy, is she _greedy__!!!_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'm getting jealous now, lol!).
  


citizenlin said:


> Suuup,
> 
> Thank you for ECC31, It arrived at door steps on Saturday.. She is wearing 2031 now and looking sexy. I am a believer of 2031. Thanks to Colin for discovery of 2031.


 
  
 Well CL, I reckon with this combo Elise will consume you totally...like many of us, you are *LOST!!!* my friend... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> Hi CL, I'm glad you get to try that special concoction 2031. It's a very potent brew.


 
  
 Hey UT, that could well be what's scrambling my brain as I head for my bed...finished adapting my second (second) FDD20 this afternoon - and thankfully no disaster post-resin sealing!! But this time I treated the pure silver and single-crystal copper wires to a bit of 24K gold as well...and even though it only has a few hours on it, coupled with the ECC31 it is already sounding incredible. Supertramp's Breakfast in America remix's 'Child of Vision' through the T1s is just blowing me away already...and that's without the really long burn-in that benefits this tube no end. How can I sleep with such excitement, lol?!!...but I'll try! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Goodnight all...and CHEERS!!


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> I was sure at the beginning, it was too bright on top end and too boomy at the bottom. 15 hrs in and it starting to reveal the sound of 2031. Was it too bright for you at the beginning?


 

 Yes 1st impression of the 2031 startled me. Sound was hitting me all over. It was like a sound machine. It did settle down now but I kind of miss the original magic lol. Now it is very smooth and perfect, so no complains. It's definitely a blending of ECC31 and FDD20 sound. So well blended it appears like a new tube.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

> Here are the building blocks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

TOO MUCH EXCITEMENT TODAY !!!
  
 I'm taking a break...mowing the lawn might be a good change. You guys are killing me with your creativities.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> YEAH!!
> 
> Another 2031 aficionado!!
> 
> Congrats to CL...!!!


 
 JV,UT
  
 Which combo do you prefer? 2031 or 2xFDD20?


----------



## UntilThen

CL, I have only one black adapter at the moment so can only do 2031. A white adapter is on the way from xulingmrs. Then I can try 2 FDD20 and my version will be Panda adapters.
  
 2031 is very good now though so I don't know how anything will beat that.
  

  
 LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> JV,UT
> 
> Which combo do you prefer? 2031 or 2xFDD20?




Hello CL, 

I am quite smitten with 2xFDD20 as drivers and a pair of 5998's as Powers. 

I use the Sony NWZ-A17 DAP, primarily, and a pair of Beyer DT-990's and I am a very happy camper.

Your mileage will, invariably, differ, of course.


----------



## UntilThen

Ain't this pretty?


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's snowing to beat the band here...

But there is no chance the snow will win, the band sounds.....TOO GOOD:


----------



## aqsw

Two months tomorrow since I ordered. Still no Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Did you ask Lukasz? I think yours should be very soon. Got your Liquid Carbon yet?
  
 It's 21 days with Elise now. I'm still amaze everyday.
  
 JV aren't you supposed to remove that sticker on the tube?


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Did you ask Lukasz? I think yours should be very soon. Got your Liquid Carbon yet?




I dont want to bug Lucasz too much. Last time was Nov.5 and he said about a week. Carbon was shipped out today. It has to go through customs. I imagine about a week before I get it.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw, it's no bugging. I told Lukasz that the sooner I get Elise the sooner others hear about her. Hey presto and it arrive on the 27th Oct....I can even remember the date well.
  
 I have a feeling within a week at most you'll hear from Lukasz. Then you will have 2 amps arriving at your doorstep at the same time. Are you prepared for that?
  
 Up to today my unit is glitch free, hum free, cool as ice. They are very stringent on QC now. Notice that my unit even have a personal signed certificate from Henryk. I don't have a power cord with mine though. They couldn't find an Aussie one and I said no problem. I just steal from one of my old PC.


----------



## mordy

Hi Citizenlin,
  
 The purpose of this experimental setup is to test the concept and not esthethics. You could do away with the entire adapter tower by fabricating a single octal socket extender with pins 7&8 disconnected to the socket and instead solder external wires to these pins. Then you would drill a hole on the back of the adapter and route the wires in such a way as to be almost invisible. I am waiting for one of the members of the forum to make this adapter for me.  As far as I know, this type of adapter is currently unavailable.
  
 The sound I get is excellent, delicate and punchy at the same time, with beautiful timbre and pacing. On well recorded recordings you feel that you have been transported to the fifth row center. The bass is astounding.
  
 I am inviting others to try these tubes - I think that it will be a very positive experience.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening session with HE560 and Chatham 6AS7G:-
  
 Holly Cole - Take Me Home
 Holst: The Planets, Herbert von Karajan - Mars the Bringer of War
 Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra - Swan Lake Op. 20: 1, Scene Moderato
 Eagles, Hell Freezes Over - Hotel California
 Jazz At The Pawnshop - The Wizard of Oz: Over The Rainbow
 Gladiator - The Battle
  
 I'm loving these tubes as they get more burned in. This is quality sound at an affordable price. This is as good as it gets for me with all the gear in sync and these magical tubes. Not even 100 hours yet. They can only get better.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It's 21 days with Elise now. I'm still amaze everyday.
> 
> JV aren't you supposed to remove that sticker on the tube?




I have kept an eye on the sticker, it poses no problem, from heat, that I can tell. 
I am leaving mine on.


.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Ain't this pretty?




Hi UT, 

How much is this and where did you find it? This vintage stuff is good looking for sure, I hope it is got life in it after all these years. 

If expensive stuff dies, you'll be left depressed with a dead tube. 

I still got nothing in the tube rolling businesses, today I wrote an application to post office to stop playing games with me. 

Wish me luck guys! 
Cheers


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yes 1st impression of the 2031 startled me. Sound was hitting me all over. It was like a sound machine. It did settle down now but I kind of miss the original magic lol. Now it is very smooth and perfect, so no complains. It's definitely a blending of ECC31 and FDD20  sound. So well blended it appears like a new tube.


 
  
 I hear you re 'the original magic' with the FDD20 in place, UT...sometimes that 'raw' excitement is very seductive, lol! But of course can, unfortunately, be a tad tiring in prolonged listening sessions!...Now I have my 'gold' 20 burning in nicely - but still early days - I'm actually hoping this excitement stays a good long while (if not permanently!)....
  
 Either that additional piece of gold wire is actually working miracles, or this etched tube is a notch up from the non-etched 'RVC' silver-painted ones, because already this new one in combo with my 31 is just (once again!) having my jaw scrape the floor - not to mention drooling/dribbling all over it, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...how can it sound this good at such an early stage?...Please *please* don't tame too much...perhaps I should forego _long_ burn-in this time!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (On reflection, this 'taming' of initial treble sharpness was noticeable when I gave my adapted C3g'S' the gold treatment...so I suppose I shouldn't be _too_ surprised, lol - and could well be confirming my previous findings, which is encouraging...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> Listening session with HE560 and Chatham 6AS7G:-
> 
> Holly Cole - Take Me Home
> Holst: The Planets, Herbert von Karajan - Mars the Bringer of War
> ...


 
  
 Love your labelling UT...now I know for sure you truly are Director of Sales, Marketing _*and*_ PR for the Eastern/Southern Hemispheres, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





jazzvinyl said:


> I have kept an eye on the sticker, it poses no problem, from heat, that I can tell.
> I am leaving mine on.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Might be a good idea JV...don't know what glue they used, but boy is it good!! - had to scrape it real hard...with faint scratch marks as a result! (but luckily nothing too noticeable...). Probably should have tried cellulose thinners first, but not to worry...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> How much is this and where did you find it? This vintage stuff is good looking for sure, I hope it is got life in it after all these years.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If tube dies within 14 days of usage, you have a right to claim refund unless you kill it by negligence. Generally if a tube performs alright within 2 days of usage, it will be problem free for a good long while. 
  
 I don't know what happen to your postal service there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Might be a good idea JV...don't know what glue they used, but boy is it good!! - had to scrape it real hard...with faint scratch marks as a result! (but luckily nothing too noticeable...). Probably should have tried cellulose thinners first, but not to worry...




I think the etched FDD20's _are_ a notch above the RVC ones, as well. Sound great without the LONG burn in!

My tax stamps have dates on them that are (remarkably) pertinent to me. I will not be removing mine.

Congrats on the gold enabled H1 custom FDD20 adapter, H1!! I'm sure it is a beautiful to look at it, as it is to listen to!

Good one!



.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I hear you re 'the original magic' with the FDD20 in place, UT...sometimes that 'raw' excitement is very seductive, lol! But of course can, unfortunately, be a tad tiring in prolonged listening sessions!...Now I have my 'gold' 20 burning in nicely - but still early days - I'm actually hoping this excitement stays a good long while (if not permanently!)....
> 
> Either that additional piece of gold wire is actually working miracles, or this etched tube is a notch up from the non-etched 'RVC' silver-painted ones, because already this new one in combo with my 31 is just (once again!) having my jaw scrape the floor - not to mention drooling/dribbling all over it, lol!
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

This is one cheap tube that truly impressed me. If you have to buy only one driver tube for Elise, this is the one to get. Unfortunately I don't see any Visseaux 6A6 out there. National Union is good too but just trail behind the Vis for sonic performance. This is so good, it gets as much playtime as the 2031. This is clearer, airy and fresh with bass notes being produced with authority and trebles that treats your ears with love and respect, at the same time a soundstage to die for.''
  
 This pair of V6 cost me $26. Adapters are $38 a pair. Chatham 6AS7G are $106 a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I think the etched FDD20's _are_ a notch above the RVC ones, as well. Sound great without the LONG burn in!
> 
> My tax stamps have dates on them that are (remarkably) pertinent to me. I will not be removing mine.
> 
> ...


 

 JV, I'm surprised you find the etched FDD20 a notch above the RVC ones. Are you saying they sound sonically better or they require less burn in?
  
 They are the same tubes on close inspection to me as far as my eyes can tell. Placebo effect maybe?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, I'm surprised you find the etched FDD20 a notch above the RVC ones. Are you saying they sound sonically better or they require less burn in?
> 
> They are the same tubes on close inspection to me as far as my eyes can tell. Placebo effect maybe?




The RVC's do sound fantastic after a lengthy burn in.

I was surprised at what I heard from the etched version. Agree that it 'appears' to be identical. 
Maybe, like the 'S' versions of C3g, they were tested and the "higher spec tubes" got the "Phillips miniwatt" brand?

.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> JV, I'm surprised you find the etched FDD20 a notch above the RVC ones. Are you saying they sound sonically better or they require less burn in?
> 
> They are the same tubes on close inspection to me as far as my eyes can tell. Placebo effect maybe?


 
  
 Hi UT...this one has me scratching my brain. I personally try _very_ hard to remain purely objective when listening to a new tube - which of course is indeed extremely hard to be certain of in this game!  But in my case, there was a definite, palpable difference in sound between the 'etched' Philips tube and the non-etched 'RVC' branded Philips at first listening. Both were NOS. Now I would love  to believe it's down purely to my extra gold wire in place, but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to claim all the glory, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 And then I remembered my slight surprise at JV mentioning how excited he was at the sound of his new (etched) tubes, given the long burn-in they normally require to really shine...so this reinforced my own suspicions. No placebo effect here, I'm sure lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And so I'm certain _something_ else could well be going on here...my own take on this is that perhaps something akin to the Siemens C3g'S' vs 'standard' C3g might be at work here - ie. _*non-etched*_ tubes going out to rebranders being the equivalent of the _*non-'S'*_ Siemens C3g?...but of course, I could be way off the mark here!!
  
 Whatever, this new 20 is performing differently to my first new RVC-branded tube...it will be very interesting to see what happens further down the line....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit....Great minds think alike, JV - can't think of a better analogy re differences between the same type of tube, lol!! (Unless someone can enlighten us! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The RVC's do sound fantastic after a lengthy burn in.
> 
> I was surprised at what I heard from the etched version. Agree that it 'appears' to be identical.
> Maybe, like the 'S' versions of C3g, they were tested and the "higher spec tubes" got the "Phillips miniwatt" brand?
> ...


 

 It is possible. It's really hard to tell with such old tubes. It's amazing they are still in such good condition. Well our ears are the best judge. Some tubes there's no mistaking the sound quality. You don't have to strain to hear it. So if the etched glass does sound better, there will be a stampede for that last remaining etched glass pair on eBay that I provide Raven the link for LOL.
  
 Guys don't drive that pair to $300 lolololo.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...this one has me scratching my brain. I personally try _very_ hard to remain purely objective when listening to a new tube - which of course is indeed extremely hard to be certain of in this game!  But in my case, there was a definite, palpable difference in sound between the 'etched' Philips tube and the non-etched 'RVC' branded Philips at first listening. Both were NOS. Now I would love  to believe it's down purely to my extra gold wire in place, but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to claim all the glory, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Alright H1, now that pair will surely fetch $500 LOL. 
  
 No one bids on that. I have a high bid on that now. Very high. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The seller has to thank me for driving up the price.


----------



## Suuup

The 6C8G's arrived. They certainly _look_ good to me. Just got home, so my ears are still off. Assessment will come later, but they appear to be humming quite a bit. Might have to burn in for a while.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Alright H1, now that pair will surely fetch $500 LOL.
> 
> No one bids on that. I have a high bid on that now. Very high.


 

 I sincerely hope no-one is that daft, UT!!   For the german ebayer to recently sell 3 for 25 Euros could possibly indicate there are still reasonable supplies out there somewhere - but of course all the sudden interest may well temporarily inflate things somewhat...happens, no?!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The 6C8G's arrived. They certainly _look_ good to me. Just got home, so my ears are still off. Assessment will come later, but they appear to be humming quite a bit. Might have to burn in for a while.


 
 Suuup, I really think you might have a grounding issue. Not ONE single tube, whether new or old that comes to me has ever hum.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup, I really think you might have a grounding issue. Not ONE single tube, whether new or old that comes to me has ever hum.


 
 These have the high shrill noise also. I'm not sure what's happening. It is only there sometimes.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> The 6C8G's arrived. They certainly _look_ good to me. Just got home, so my ears are still off. Assessment will come later, but they appear to be humming quite a bit. Might have to burn in for a while.


 
  
 Hi Suuup....as others have said before now, it sure looks like you need to get some serious grounding done, if at all possible lol!
 But I must also admit to having always wondered about that high voltage springing out all over the place, lol!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I sincerely hope no-one is that daft, UT!!   For the german ebayer to recently sell 3 for 25 Euros could possibly indicate there are still reasonable supplies out there somewhere - but of course all the sudden interest may well temporarily inflate things somewhat...happens, no?!


 

 I'm the Myth Buster. I have to hear for myself.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> The 6C8G's arrived. They certainly _look_ good to me. Just got home, so my ears are still off. Assessment will come later, but they appear to be humming quite a bit. Might have to burn in for a while.




Hello Suuup...

Cool looking tubes!

I sure would like to see your amp get grounded too, Suuup.

The bare copper pipe in the heat system should be good. Need to find a spot to attach the other end to - on the Elise that is bare...attach it to a non painted portion of the Elise chassis.

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup...
> 
> Cool looking tubes!
> 
> ...


 
 What part of the chassis is painted and which is not? I'll get a long cable tomorrow, and run it along the wall to the copper pipes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> What part of the chassis is painted and which is not? I'll get a long cable tomorrow, and run it along the wall to the copper pipes.




If it's black, it's painted, if it's brass colored, it's not. Will look at mine, tonight...


----------



## UntilThen

Come to Australia. We're very grounded.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Come to Australia. We're very grounded.




Yeah, just ask those 'Mad Max' guys


----------



## Suuup

I've been reading about the rules for grounding in Denmark. Every household here has what's called a 'HFI', which is an RCD in English, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device. I actually thought every house in the world had one of these? Do you have them in the States? Australia? They are mandatory in Denmark. 
  
 It also appears that every house / apartment build after 1. of April 1975 is required to have grounded sockets. I will have to check when my apartment was built, I might be able to have entirely new wiring. Grounded sockets have only been mandatory since 2008. Also, we're apparently using 3 different kinds of sockets. 
 This is what most plugs looks like. As you can see, the sockets needs a pin also, to connect the ground. I have seen a socket with that pin.. maybe once. The other type is this one:
  

 This doesn't fit in most sockets, as it has the 3rd grounding pin. I have only *one* socket in my entire apartment, where I can use this. Also, I'm pretty sure that there actually is no ground in that socket, and that it's only there to fit plugs with the grounding pin, not to actually provide any ground. This is very common in older buildings. 
  
 I don't have anything in my apartment, which is grounded. This includes 2 freezers, an oven, a fridge, stove, 2x 2,000 watt heaters and more. When I connect and disconnect the heaters, sparks are flying everywhere. 
  
 I have only been shocked once, when I disconnected my computer from my old 5.1 system. I don't know how much power went through me, bit I was quite shocked (as in surprised), so I had to sit down for a couple of minutes. Now that I think about it, I actually quite a few people who has been shocked. One was installing a new lamp, standing on a ladder, when he was shocked. Went straight into the ground, I only heard the bump. He was okay though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I don't have anything in my apartment, which is grounded. This includes 2 freezers, an oven, a fridge, stove, 2x 2,000 watt heaters and more. When I connect and disconnect the heaters, sparks are flying everywhere.




Understand that "safety of of the humans around electricity" was not a concern before April of 1975, in Denmark, Suuup.
But you can add the ground wire for the Elise yourself, and hopefully, this will be of benefit, to help you get rid your hum problems.

.


----------



## nephilim

Suuup, what you could also do is remove one of the sockets and check whether there is an additional third wire going through the wall. If so you could then buy a socket with ground pin and connect that one. But from what you are telling I fear the chance is fairly low 
  
 Edit: Alternatively, you could attach the end of the long wire (of which the other end is going to your copper pipes) to the ground contact on the side of the plug of the power cable that came with the Elise. Inserting the end of the cable into the hole in the plug where the ground pin would go seems to be a bit dangerous as the end could also touch the other two pins...


----------



## UntilThen

Please call an electrician. Don't let this happen to you.


----------



## Lord Raven

What about their price? 



untilthen said:


> If tube dies within 14 days of usage, you have a right to claim refund unless you kill it by negligence. Generally if a tube performs alright within 2 days of usage, it will be problem free for a good long while.
> 
> I don't know what happen to your postal service there.




When did you give me the link? I have stopped buying anything online, there is no use. Post office sucks. 




untilthen said:


> It is possible. It's really hard to tell with such old tubes. It's amazing they are still in such good condition. Well our ears are the best judge. Some tubes there's no mistaking the sound quality. You don't have to strain to hear it. So if the etched glass does sound better, there will be a stampede for that last remaining etched glass pair on eBay that I provide Raven the link for LOL.
> 
> Guys don't drive that pair to $300 lolololo.


----------



## UntilThen

Only combos that shines get framed and inscribed. This is the 3rd in my series.


----------



## UntilThen

This site has been talking about ECC31, 6N7G and FDD20 in 2013. Anyone can understand what is said here? 
  
 http://www.diyaudiovillage.net/index.php?topic=65.150


----------



## JazzVinyl

The China adapter maker surprised me today and did post a link to her new FDD20->6SN7 adapter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201469024939

Almost perfect, but she runs the wire for 12v out the front. instead of out the back, as I asked her to do.

But in fact, this IS the coolest place for the wire to be. It gets REAL HOT back there where the powers are. So I can live with this.

It will be real nice to use the FDD20 sockets without having to worry about squeezing the the power wires in place.

I did ask that she makes NO connection to pins 7 and 8 in Octal socket, hope we have that clear 











.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The China adapter maker surprised me today and did post a link to her new FDD20->6SN7 adapter:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201469024939
> 
> ...


 
 WOW, now is this news or what??? I'm ache- ci- ted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So JV, you think they have got it right? What a shame. The one FDD20 to 6SN7 adapter is on the way to me. I suppose I can return that and order 2 of these. That way I have 2 white adapters !!! No more Pandas !!!
  
 So tell me, tell me ...do you know if they got this right? Why aren't the 2 pins removed?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Only combos that shines get framed and inscribed. This is the 3rd in my series.




That a beautiful looking setup, UT...

I peel the labels off my adapters. They appear to be custom "return address labels" 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> WOW, now is this news or what??? I'm ache- ci- ted
> 
> So JV, you think they have got it right? What a shame. The one FDD20 to 6SN7 adapter is on the way to me. I suppose I can return that and order 2 of these. That way I have 2 white adapters !!! No more Pandas !!!
> 
> So tell me, tell me ...do you know if they got this right? Why aren't the 2 pins removed?




We had a heck of a time communicating. But I did ask for the two heater pins NOT to be removed and instead not to connect them to the heater pins on the FDD20 socket and run me two wires out for external heat, instead. 

Back and forth many times, each time we got close, she went back to not understanding what was needed. 

Finally sent her the link to the DIY mods to her FDD20->12SN7 adapter...that must have been what was needed.

In my requests, I asked for the heater wires to exit opposite the guide pin (in the rear). 

So we did not get rear exit heater wires, and I hope we got no connections to octal 7 & 8...

If so...close enough 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I'm writing to her to ask specifically if there is no connections to 7 & 8. Hope she understand what I'm asking.
  
 What will happen if connection is made to 7 & 8? Will I see fireworks???


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Well I'm writing to her to ask specifically if there is no connections to 7 & 8. Hope she understand what I'm asking.
> 
> What will happen if connection is made to 7 & 8? Will I see fireworks???




You will be instantly electrocuted, of course 

I am unclear...do you mean you have an FDD20->12SN7 coming?

If you get this one, and there is connection to pins 7 and 8 then you must cut them off as we did for the 12SN7 version.

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> You will be instantly electrocuted, of course
> 
> I am unclear...do you mean you have a FDD20->12SN7 coming?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I have one FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter (the old version) coming on the way.
  
 Next question...how do I know if they make connections to pins 7 and 8? Is there any way to tell.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes I have one FDD20 to 12SN7 adapter (the old version) coming on the way.
> 
> Next question...how do I know if they make connections to pins 7 and 8? Is there any way to tell.




I have a pair of the new ones coming and will use my ohm meter to see if they are connected or not, I suspect not since the DIY page clearly indicates we wanted nothing to do with Elise's 6.3 volts, so we could heat externally.

I'd bet she has it right. But we will know for sure when mine arrives 

The old version are definitely connected.....you HAVE to cut off pins 7 & 8.




.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I have a pair of the new ones coming and will use my ohm meter to see if they are connected or not, I suspect not since the DIY page clearly indicates we wanted nothing to do with Elise's 6.3 volts, so we could heat externally.
> 
> I'd bet she has it right. But we will know for sure when mine comes across the ocean
> 
> ...


 

 Ok Mrs Xuling replied. She said...'Hello friend, octal socket 7 & 8 not used, see photo. FDD20 tube heat direct connect red/black wire.
thanks!'
  
I think she got it right and I'm a friend now.     I'm ordering 2 of these now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ok Mrs Xuling replied. She said...'Hello friend, octal socket 7 & 8 not used, [COLOR=231F20]see photo. FDD20 tube heat direct connect red/black wire.[/COLOR][COLOR=231F20]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=231F20]thanks!'[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=231F20]I think she got it right and I'm a friend now.     I'm ordering 2 of these now.[/COLOR]




Very good!

I think she may have understood all along and put me off long enough to get the new custom return address labels printed. 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Now we need her to build Mordy's custom octal to octal / external heat adapter for his 6BL7's...

No more frakenstein tower 

I have requested she make an octal to octal (like an octal socket saver) but with no connections to pins 7 & 8, add external heater wires instead.....

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Very good!
> 
> I think she may have understood all along and put me off long enough to get the new custom return address labels printed.
> 
> ...


 

 JV, is this a good idea for connecting the wires from the 12V to the wires from the 2 FDD20 adapters plus the ground? How are you planning to do it? Just twist the wires together and use electrical tape to seal it?


----------



## JazzVinyl

The quick disconnect is the way to go, so you can leave the 12v in place, plugged in and just unhook the Adapters...?

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The quick disconnect is the way to go, so you can leave the 12v in place, plugged in and just unhook the Adapters...?
> 
> .


 

 Sorry not following you there. What do you mean? Btw xulingmrs is so kind. Ask me not to waste money and just modify old adapter and use it but if I soo choose to return the old adapter then no problem for her. I told her I prefer the new ones. So neat and easy to use.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Sorry not following you there. What do you mean? Btw xulingmrs is so kind. Ask me not to waste money and just modify old adapter and use it but if I soo choose to return the old adapter then no problem for her. I told her I prefer the new ones. So neat and easy to use.




LOL, she must have liked the DIY guide to modding the 12SN7 version. 

I will come up with a quick disconnect system to use on the new adapters. Want to be able to terminate the 12v adapter wires in a quick disconnect system so that I don't have to remove the 12v transformer too, when switching out FDD20's...

And not have to twist wires together. 

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL, she must have liked the DIY guide to modding the 12SN7 version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok cool. Gotcha. Was thinking this...but it's not quick connect / disconnect ....what would I know.


----------



## UntilThen

Super excited now. Can even use FDD20 on Darkvoice 336se I think?!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ok cool. Gotcha. Was thinking this...but it's not quick connect / disconnect ....what would I know.




We will get it figured 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Super excited now. Can even use FDD20 on Darkvoice 336se I think?! :bigsmile_face:




I absolutely would!


----------



## nephilim

I'm almost sure xulingmrs got it right as the pictures on eBay show that there is no solder in the pins next to the external wire. Looks good! Thanks for pushing that guy into making this adapter ☺


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I'm almost sure xulingmrs got it right as the pictures on eBay show that there is no solder in the pins next to the external wire. Looks good! Thanks for pushing that guy into making this adapter ☺


 

 You mean that girl...woman   She's very nice. Always respond very quickly to my email questions. I'm regular customer now. So are all of you. I think this thread expands their business    JV, should be credited heaps for all this. Well done buddy. !!!
  
 Meanwhile Mazda and Chatham sounds really good. How is yours doing Nep?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> We will get it figured
> 
> .


 

 JV, I need a remote control to start up FDD20s. No need voice command. Just a push button will do.
  
 Pretty soon the whole of Elise will be battery powered, including the power tubes. How cool is that.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> How is yours doing Nep?




#11 is being checked since last Friday. I hope to hear from Lukasz soon


----------



## nephilim

Btw, I would like to recommend this product http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE

Apart from the conditioner & protection benefits you can connect amp & 12v power supply and switch both on/off via the Furman's main switch.


----------



## Lord Raven

According to this article there is no sonic difference between a P2P or Printed circuit, only that the former looks good LOL
  
http://www.soldano.com/amp-help/point-to-point-vs-printed-circuit-boards/


----------



## Lord Raven

Elise thread is going in the direction of FDD20 tubes, and there are not many available in the market 
  
 Xulingmrs made a lot of expensive adapters already lol Why does she prefer white though?


----------



## Suuup

The 6C8G has been running all night now, and I'm happy to report that the hum is gone.
  
 2x JAN RCA 6C8G + 2x 6H13C
 Treble is harsh and almost sounds distorted. Bass is a bit muddy and it doesn't go anywhere near as deep as my ECC31. The size of the soundstage is good actually, but it's not as precise as I'd like it to be. Music can very quickly sound very congested. Has a rather thin sound. 
  
 Okay, so I just realized I was testing them with the stock Russian powers, which I don't think is a fair comparison. I initially wrote a lot about how bad they were, but I've deleted it, since they're actually quite good with proper powers. Here is a comparison with the ECC31, when I'm running my Tungsol 5998:
  
 2x JAN RCA 6C8G + 2x Tungsol 5998
 Treble is much smoother than before, but still not as smooth as the ECC31. The treble and highs are much more forward than the ECC31, which are very laid back. Female voices sound much more well defined, than the ECC31. Actually, vocals in general are much more defined. The sound is very precise, but it's not as detailed as the ECC31. The sound is no longer congested like it was before. Bass is good, quantity is about right, though it doesn't extend as deep as the ECC31. 
  
 Oh yea, and one more thing. These tubes are VERY microphonic. If I move the slightest, I can hear it. I don't even have to touch anything. It is insane. Some people don't recommend these as voltage amplification tubes, but rather phase splitting tube, due to them being very microphonic. 
  
 Overall, I'm happy with the tubes, and I can definitely see myself rolling them sometimes. Preferably when I'm not moving at all..
  
 Edit: Oh, and I think I've found someone with Fivre 6N7G, brown base.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Btw, I would like to recommend this product http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE
> 
> Apart from the conditioner & protection benefits you can connect amp & 12v power supply and switch both on/off via the Furman's main switch.




That's a nice unit, Neph.

We are all anxious to hear about #011's adventure "home".

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> The 6C8G has been running all night now, and I'm happy to report that the hum is gone.
> 
> 2x JAN RCA 6C8G + 2x Tungsol 5998
> Treble is much smoother than before, but still not as smooth as the ECC31. The treble and highs are much more forward than the ECC31, which are very laid back. Female voices sound much more well defined, than the ECC31. Actually, vocals in general are much more defined. The sound is very precise, but it's not as detailed as the ECC31. The sound is no longer congested like it was before. Bass is good, quantity is about right, though it doesn't extend as deep as the ECC31.
> ...




Suuup, I have always heard the 6C8G's sound a lot like quality 6SN7's and wondered if you have compared them?

Didn't get a chance last night to look at my amp for a grounding spot, and it's back to work now, so maybe tonight.

Glad to hear you love the 5998's. 

Good listening, Suuup!

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup, I have always heard the 6C8G's sound a lot like quality 6SN7's and wondered if you have compared them?
> 
> Didn't get a chance last night to look at my amp for a grounding spot, and it's back to work now, so maybe tonight.
> 
> ...


 
 I think you're confusing them with 6F8G, which I've also heard sounds a lot like good 6SN7. I'll try to make a comparison tonight, if I find the time!


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Btw, I would like to recommend this product http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE
> 
> Apart from the conditioner & protection benefits you can connect amp & 12v power supply and switch both on/off via the Furman's main switch.


 

 Any idea how much this unit cost Nep?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The 6C8G has been running all night now, and I'm happy to report that the hum is gone.
> 
> 2x JAN RCA 6C8G + 2x 6H13C
> Treble is harsh and almost sounds distorted. Bass is a bit muddy and it doesn't go anywhere near as deep as my ECC31. The size of the soundstage is good actually, but it's not as precise as I'd like it to be. Music can very quickly sound very congested. Has a rather thin sound.
> ...


 

 Well written, detailed comparison on those tubes, Suuup. I have several 6SN7, 7N7 and C3G but these days I'm mainly on my favourite trio. Those that I framed up with tubes designations. 
  
 I also find myself using the 5998 less these days as I'm using my Chatham 6AS7G. The Chatham pairs beautifully with 2031, Mazda and Visseaux 6A6. Those drivers are already producing a lot of bass and have a very commanding midrange presence.
  
 I run 5998 at times when I want that extra kick. Besides I have only one pair, so using with care.


----------



## UntilThen

This deserve to be on my wall of framed tubes. Despite the ECC31 more laid back nature as compared to some of the more exciting 6N7G and 6A6, I find these Mullard are a benchmark for drivers. It is certainly unbeatable as far as bass extension goes. The rest of the FR are just as likeable. I haven't heard 2 FDD20 yet, so my findings might change when the time comes.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm preparing a writeup to showcase Elise to the Australian audio forum...stereo.net.au. Got thinking about doing this when a moderator there said to me:-
  
  
 Me
_Let's keep monitoring.  I for one am really happy now. I wanted a high quality music streamer. Looks like I can still continue to use Tidal. *It's been a pleasure knowing all of you.*_
_Remember it ain't over until we experience a week of smooth usage. Then we know for certainty that it's back to normal._
_Cheers._
 
_Mod_
_What! Leaving us already? After all that great work and interaction?_
_Stick around, Odyssey, you might enjoy and contribute to some of the other threads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_
  
  
  
 My moniker there is Odyssey. 
  
 I've been liaising with Tidal on the problems faced by Aussie subscribers in the last 2 weeks. I was working with another guy Duke40 with co-ordinating others feedback to be relayed back to Tidal to resolve the buffering problem that has plagued us for more than 2 weeks now. It's not over yet although my own sessions have been smooth. Others are still getting buffering problems during song play.  Hence that above reply.
  
  
 I think this will be my title for the new thread over there


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 The site about the ECC31 says in Thai:
  
  
You do not have to fly as high as he ... Flew out to fly as far as we know . Port airport is not necessarily unique. Just fly to the moderator .
  
 Courtesy Google Translate. Don't know what comment means.....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi nUT,
> 
> The site about the ECC31 says in Thai:
> 
> ...


 

 LOL this is hilarious. Are they talking about 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest' ?
  
 They have a lot of pictures on all the 6SN7 tubes and equivalent though.
  
 The Thais obviously knows the good stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy, JV mentioned that xulingmrs is doing an adapter for your 6BL7. Those are power tubes right? So aside from a very good bass, what are your impressions on the overall sound when paired with suitable drivers? Once those adapters are available I might be keen to explore.
  
 Would a 12V AC adapter of 12V 3amp do for those 6BL7?


----------



## UntilThen

Alright this video will tell you why vinyl will sound more real than CD and tube amp sound more real and natural than solid state. Sigh now I have to invest in an affordable turntable and start buying records. Folks if you're on the start of your musical journey this is way to go. Forget the facts that says turntable and tube amps are more coloured. Hell yeah they are coloured but they also sound more musical. That is the main thing. Now let the flaming begins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now this is why I love tubes. So what if they introduce distortion and adds warm and colour. Ultimately they sound more real and musical to me. My journey with tube amp has just started. First with Darkvoice 336se, then Elise. With Elise though the jump has been so great and it sounds so good now I doubt I'll need a better tube amp and if I do, how much more will that cost. Elise could be the end of the journey as I expand on the other components.


----------



## UntilThen

The CD that started it all. Listen to it on Tidal. The resolution is great at 16/44.1


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mrs Xu Ling says she has Mordy's adapter figured...she _will_ produce it.

===
The 6BL7 is a driver tube that is 6.3 volts - but must be externally heated, because it draws 1.5 amps of current. Elise driver tube current is Max 1.0 amp.
===

Mordy, please make a power supply recommendation.


.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> This is what most plugs looks like. As you can see, the sockets needs a pin also, to connect the ground.


 
  
 Either the pin (French type socket) or the side earthing contacts (German type socket). This plug fits both types perfectly.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'm preparing a writeup to showcase Elise to the Australian audio forum...stereo.net.au. Got thinking about doing this when a moderator there said to me:-
> 
> 
> Me
> ...


 
  
 You do us all proud, UT...keep up the good work, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  


mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> The site about the ECC31 says in Thai:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like some sort of code to me, lol...hope it ain't seditious!!


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Any idea how much this unit cost Nep?


 

 In Germany it's currently 200EUR (new) or 185EUR (B-stock with full warranty).


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> In Germany it's currently 200EUR (new) or 185EUR (B-stock with full warranty).


 

 Ok sounds like something on my wishlist then. Seems good.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Mrs Xu Ling says she has Mordy's adapter figured...she _will_ produce it.
> 
> ===
> The 6BL7 is a driver tube that is 6.3 volts - but must be externally heated, because it draws 1.5 amps of current. Elise driver tube current is Max 1.0 amp.
> ...


 

 We have a dedicated adapter maker catering to our needs. How lovely. Looks like Elise being a great tube amp may not be simply fortuitous. The stars are aligned all the way to the availability of adapters and all kinds of tubes. Elise is simply well conceived, designed and destined to be remembered in the audio world of Head-Fi.


----------



## Suuup

I've been listening to music all day now. I am not kidding here, she has only been off to change tubes. The headphones has been on my head all the time, except when going to the toilet or making food, with either music or a Youtube video (with more music) playing.
  
 I don't find Elise to be fatiguing at all. Normally I have to take off my headphones after a couple hours, but with the Elise I can keep on going.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've been listening to music all day now. I am not kidding here, she has only been off to change tubes. The headphones has been on my head all the time, except when going to the toilet or making food, with either music or a Youtube video (with more music) playing.
> 
> I don't find Elise to be fatiguing at all. Normally I have to take off my headphones after a couple hours, but with the Elise I can keep on going.


 

 I thought I was the only one doing this sort of thing. I'm still doing it after 25 days. Hands up how many Elise owners are doing this.
  
 I think this is a serious addiction. We all need to check into summer camp retreat together BUT....please bring your Elise, your tubes, your adapters, your music and some money for the rehab.


----------



## UntilThen

This is my most outrageous collection but I love them. Will be using 2 of these when those adapters from Mrs Xu Ling arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

These must be the 2 pairs of lovely tubes that came all the way from Italy. Look at the wrapping. Like a giant sandwich. Ham and turkey inside for sure.
  
 Ok breakfast, shower first then I'll be back for the Fivre 6A6 & 6N7G.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> These must be the 2 pairs of lovely tubes that came all the way from Italy. Look at the wrapping. Like a giant sandwich. Ham and turkey inside for sure.
> 
> Ok breakfast, shower first then I'll be back for the Fivre 6A6 & 6N7G.


 
 Oh boy, I'm looking forward to this! I'm getting some Fivre 6N7G brown base too. Do you think they will have the same sound as your non brown base Fivres?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Oh boy, I'm looking forward to this! I'm getting some Fivre 6N7G brown base too. Do you think they will have the same sound as your non brown base Fivres?


 
 No man, the brown base is a marriage between the British Mullard and the Italian Fivre. It will be the super tube.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> No man, the brown base is a marriage between the British Mullard and the Italian Fivre. It will be the super tube.


 
 I certainly hope so. I went through hell and back again to track them down.


----------



## UntilThen

That's how they arrived in


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 The 6BL7 tube was tried as a power tube in the Elise, Although it sounded OK, I found it not to have enough power  - sounded like it was running out of steam.
  
 Then I tried it as a _*driver*_ tube. It sounded quite good, similar in sound to the Chatham 6AS7G. Ar around the 30 hour mark of burn-in, I was flabbergasted, My humble speaker system sounded like I had added an enormous subwoofer. The slam, impact and reach into the lowest bass was totally different and vastly superior to anything I had tried before.
  
 To me, these tubes sounded better than the Mazda 6N7G tubes because of the better bass - otherwise they sound similar.
  
 The problem (and advantage) of these tubes is that the Elise cannot safely handle 1.5A for the driver tubes; an external power source is necessary. Currently no octal adapter with external heater wires is available, but it seems that one of the Chinese makers will manufacture one.
  
 In terms of current draw, although it seems that 3A would be enough, I have been told that when the amp is turned on, there is a surge and the current draw could be up to three times more. Therefore it appears prudent to have a large reserve. Inexpensive 400-500W power supplies for PCs produce 14-15A at 12V. A 15A voltage regulator can easily be adjusted to 6.3V, 
  
 This setup allows you to try 8V, 12V and 25V tubes as well (and anything in between). The voltage regulator has a little set screw that you turn to adjust the voltage = measure with an inexpensive multimeter. As a side note, some sought after expensive tubes often exist in different voltage versions, at a much better price.
  
 The computer PS could come from an old PC, or be bought on sale for $30 or less. The voltage regulator costs less than $15 on eBay,
  
 And the advantage of the 1.5A 6BL7 tube? There does not seem to be much demand for it, and hundreds of such tubes are for sale very inexpensively.
  
 Here is a link to the voltage regulator that I use:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231104103029?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true


----------



## UntilThen

WOW Mordy. I'm nominating you for the next Nobel Physics prize.
  
 This will open up a whole lot of tubes for Elise. Genius. 
  
 You reckon the 6336 can be use then with this setup?


----------



## UntilThen

*Behold Fivre 6N7G*
  
 On the first note, I knew that these are special tubes. Like a Ferrari, when you start the ignition, the engine roar and comes to life. It sounds like liquid honey lace with gold, clear as a summer's day, as transparent as an X-ray glasses and definition to make you weep. You will cringe in ecstasy. These tubes will please you in plain English.
  
 And this is the 1st hour...
  
 So good I have to frame it straight away and inscribe it. I was a bit disappointed mine didn't come with the vintage tax stamp and original boxes but oh well the tubes are perfect. Not a single hum. Humphrey !!!
  
 I audition these tubes with Billy Gibbons And The BFG's - album Perfectamundo. Try it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These tubes are *coppia  Vintage 6N7G Fivre =ECC31 Made in Italy anno 1942.​*  
*I just realise these tubes have 4 copper rods. They have glass markings that says 'Fivre aeronautica'.​*


----------



## UntilThen

More pictures of the Fivre 6N7G


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> I've been listening to music all day now. I am not kidding here, she has only been off to change tubes. The headphones has been on my head all the time, except when going to the toilet or making food, with either music or a Youtube video (with more music) playing.
> 
> I don't find Elise to be fatiguing at all. Normally I have to take off my headphones after a couple hours, but with the Elise I can keep on going.


 
 I hear you Suuup. I have her for almost two months now. Usually "new toy honeymoon period" is not this long. She is a keeper for life.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

My 2nd Fdd20 adapter hum (60hz) like no tomorrow. I tried to reseat wire, clean all contacts and pins without any luck. I might have one bad adapter in my hand. Any suggestion?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is a good deal on a refurbished Power Supply (looks to be already grounded) and can supply a wide variety of tubes with the voltage controller that Mordy's link pointed to (free shipping as well, for USA peeps):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139107

Here is Mordy's link again:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231104103029

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is a good deal on a refurbished Power Supply (looks to be already grounded) and can supply a wide variety of tubes with the voltage controller that Mordy's link pointed to (free shipping as well, for USA peeps):
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139107
> 
> ...


 

 This is what's in my PC. Maybe I can rip it out... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 https://www.pccasegear.com/products/27628?gclid=CKytvcKdm8kCFVSSvQodg18FQQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
  
 I need a tutorial on how to hook up the power supply and voltage controller to the tubes.
  
 I like all these DIY ...


----------



## UntilThen

*Five 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 This pair of gorgeous looking tubes came at the same time as the Fivre 6N7G. So I have the opportunity to test them back to back. I have to say these 2 pairs of tubes from Italy are certainly worth seeking out. Are they better than my Mazda 6N7G or Visseaux 6A6? No but they are on par. Here I have 4 pairs of French and Italian tubes and they are the best sounding drivers I have ever heard on Elise. Only the 2031 can hold up a candle to them. More about 2031 later. Even a pair of ECC31 which I consider the benchmark has been outclassed. Such is the classy performance from these tubes. I have never regretted for a moment that I purchased them.
  
 What about National Union 6A6 or Philco 6N7G you might ask. Well they are good but these are better. That is the short answer.
  
 I have been blessed with all these tubes that worked flawlessly out of the box. No hum and tubes in marvellous condition. They are NOS, I have no doubt about it. Some even come with original vintage boxes.
  
 Here's how much they cost me:-  (per pair) in US dollars.
 Mazda 6N7G - $99
 Visseaux 6A6 - $26.63
 Fivre 6A6 - $28.77
 Fivre 6N7G - $95.17
 ECC31 - $200
 National Union 6A6 - $15
 Philco 6N7G - $33
  
 You can see at a glance the 6A6 are the cheapest.


----------



## UntilThen

*More pictures on the Fivre 6A6*


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nice looking tubes, UT!! You ARE lucky to have so many Italian tubes!

I decided to visit a pair of ECC31/Mullard 6080's..

Took a while to get used to the mellow_mellow presentation of the ECC31 pair.
They go oh so deep and sound stage is nice as can be, but leave "excitement" to be desired.

Especially after being spoiled for days with my Italian FDD20 pair 

Going to go 2031-ize it now...and see what happens 


...The ECC31 pair...

.


----------



## UntilThen

I have those exact same thoughts about the ECC31. After being woo by the Italian and French beauties, it's hard to go back to the ECC31 unless I want to go low .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm spinning Fivre 6N7G with 5998 now and it's sounding really good. I could just live with Chatham 6AS7G and 5998 as power tubes. I need no others. Perhaps I should roll my Tung Sol 7236 again. They are the forgotten ones, those IBM tubes.
  
 The only missing tubes for me are your Visseaux 6N7G. However, with the 6A6 and 6N7G exhibiting so much similarities, I can almost predict what your Joybringer sounds like. However I could almost tell my tubes apart just by listening. Very subtle differences but very similar. Really loving all of them. Now if no one disrupt my bid for the etched FDD20, I would soon find out what they sound like.
  
 I can say now that I don't need anymore tubes. So I'll leave you guys to experiment with 6BL7. I think with the tubes that I have, I have already attained audio nirvana. If anyone ask me now what drivers and power tubes to go for in Elise, I can recommend without a moment's hesitation.
  




  
 p/s the usual disclaimer....your mileage may vary.


----------



## UntilThen

This is so beautiful...reminds me of Hawaii. Beau_ ti_ full. Put on your favourite tubes, let your hair down and spin it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Okay Peeps...for those who are going to try Mordy's suggested 6BL7's...

Mrs Xu Ling has just completed what she calls her: "Special Octal Savers":

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191741357847




I have learned over the years that you can trust Mordy's sonic impressions...if he says the 6BL7's are danged good, then I am going to try them!

I have ordered the PC power supply and the voltage regulator...just ordered a pair of these from Mrs Ling...

Will provide DIY instructions on how to use the voltage regulator when I get all the pieces. Already have a pair of 6BL7, on the way.

Here ya go, Mordy!! Just what the doctor ordered, to bring down the Frankenstein tower 


Cheers to us...the LUCKY ones!


,


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I'll stick with the Bugatti, Ferrari and Porsche. You can experiment with the Mustang.


----------



## UntilThen

Music !!!
 This is high quality recordings. Sara K featured a lot in female audiophile recordings.
  
 I present Sara K. 
 Album: Play On Words
  
 Fivre 6N7G and Chatham 6AS7G sounds really good on this. This is as high fidelity as it gets. The more I listen to the Fivre, the more I like it. There's a transparency and fluidness. Such clear trebles and engaging midrange, with a controlled and impactful bass, extending really well. These tubes are great for Jazz and Classical. In fact any genre. There's nothing it can't do paired with the Chatham.
  
 I can keep praising tubes but really it's Elise that is in control. It is the sum total. Quality tubes and a quality amp, that's what it is. Like Suuuup, I just can't stop listening. You just want to go on song after song.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> My 2nd Fdd20 adapter hum (60hz) like no tomorrow. I tried to reseat wire, clean all contacts and pins without any luck. I might have one bad adapter in my hand. Any suggestion?




Hello CL...

You said the first one did not hum, and you were _not_ running the third wire (extra ground)?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello CL...
> 
> You said the first one did not hum, and you were _not_ running the third wire (extra ground)?


 
 Isn't ground a 50 hz hum?


----------



## nephilim

suuup said:


> Isn't ground a 50 hz hum?




Depends on where you live 

220V / 50Hz
110V / 60Hz


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I've been listening to music all day now. I am not kidding here, she has only been off to change tubes. The headphones has been on my head all the time, except when going to the toilet or making food, with either music or a Youtube video (with more music) playing.
> 
> I don't find Elise to be fatiguing at all. Normally I have to take off my headphones after a couple hours, but with the Elise I can keep on going.


 
  
 Ditto, Suuup...and this is with the Beyer T1s, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...(I suspect not all HP amps are quite this accommodating with these cans...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> I thought I was the only one doing this sort of thing. I'm still doing it after 25 days. Hands up how many Elise owners are doing this.
> 
> I think this is a serious addiction. We all need to check into summer camp retreat together BUT....please bring your Elise, your tubes, your adapters, your music and some money for the rehab.


 
 Well UT...send me a return ticket for me and my Elise (not forgetting the T1s!!) and we'll see whether my 'gold' adapted tubes outshine yours...or not...wouldn't mind either way, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


citizenlin said:


> I hear you Suuup. I have her for almost two months now. Usually "new toy honeymoon period" is not this long.* She is a keeper for life.*


 
 That's for sure, CL....CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....as mordy has said - "There's no way back!!"
  
 ps.  Hope you sort that new hum...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...we can't have anything spoiling the FDD magic, lol!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> This is so beautiful...reminds me of Hawaii. Beau_ ti_ full. Put on your favourite tubes, let your hair down and spin it.




  
 Yo UT...._real_ smooooth....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...all we need now is for this to be on *vinyl??!!!*  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(liked that recent video on CD vs vinyl by the way...).


jazzvinyl said:


> Okay Peeps...for those who are going to try Mordy's suggested 6BL7's...
> 
> Mrs Xu Ling has just completed what she calls her: "Special Octal Savers":
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great work once again JV...you are opening up even more possibilities for us lucky Elise folks, with mordy's latest trials added to the (ever-expanding!) list...can't wait for your findings re. 6BL7 vs FDD20!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit....Plus, of course, 6BL7 vs 2031!!


----------



## UntilThen

Whenever I hear someone talks about hum, I think how fortunate I am. It's been 25 days with Elise now and countless tubes. So many tubes I don't know which to roll. All the favourite ones are on the desktop now. Now that the initial test to see if the tubes are in good health and working is over, I'm settling down to a full day with each pair.
  
 Whether tubes or adapters, I've never experience any hum. The Fivre tubes has some very slight electrical sound which goes away after the initial few hours. I think they are just rousing from their sleep.
  
 I'm really enjoying my listening sessions now. So pleased I'm with Elise, I want to tell everyone I meet about this new tube amp that I have just bought. Of all the 'toys' I've had in my lifetime, this has to be the best. Music is truly a gift to be enjoyed but with the right gear, you'll be totally immersed.


----------



## UntilThen

My favourite combinations now:-
  

FDD20/ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G
Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G
Visseaux 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G
Fivre 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G
Fivre 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G
  
 These are in no order of preference. Shows how much I love all of them. They are my equal favourites now. I would score them all at 9.8/10
 I'm not liberal with my scoring, reserving the perfect score for a very special combo when it comes. I'll be trying 2 FDD20 when the new adapters arrived.
  
 I've also gone with Chatham 6AS7G as my power tube of choice. With these tubes I find the Chatham hits the sweet spot for me over even the Tung Sol 5998.  I am glad that I have 2 pairs of the Chatham. I love them so much that I'm on the lookout for more at a good price.
  
 p/s notice how 2 ECC31 has even dropped off the radar for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I think the GEC 6AS7G will replace the Chatham 6AS7G eventually.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> My favourite combinations now:-
> 
> 
> FDD20/ECC31 with Chatham 6AS7G
> ...


 
  
 Nice collection of tubes there, UT....can't help but notice you are rather fond of the Chatham 6AS7G...I've been plugging these wonders ever since the LittleDot days, lol!
  
 Now, in the Elise - and with our latest drivers especially -  I feel they are hot on the heels of the GECs. And although I love mine to bits, I must admit I would find it hard to justify the usually horrendous GEC prices being demanded, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But if a sudden unexpected windfall comes one's way, or you have the kind of unbelievable luck I had in discovering 'unrecognised' tubes, then that extra dimension is a joy to the ears....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 I can understand your own particular findings re 2x ECC31...in certain systems - especially regarding the HPs - they could appear to be a little short in the excitement stakes. But this is a definite possible advantage with cans such as the Beyer T1s, which can sometimes be in need of this 'taming' quality. Or for those (especially younger!) ears that may be overly-sensitive to higher frequencies.
  
 But it certainly is a revelation that tubes a fraction of the cost of the 31s can prove to be more than a match...given the usual caveats, of course!
  
 All we need now is an in-depth comparison between these giant-killers and the likes of the Tung Sol BGRP 6SN7, Sylvania 6SN7W and Bendix slotted graphite versions...any takers, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and, needless to say, as they perform in the Elise. It is now apparent that this amp often has tubes performing rather differently to how they do in other units...and usually to a level a good bit above what would normally be expected....*nice, lol!!!*...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Nice collection of tubes there, UT....can't help but notice you are rather fond of the Chatham 6AS7G...I've been plugging these wonders ever since the LittleDot days, lol!
> 
> Now, in the Elise - and with our latest drivers especially -  I feel they are hot on the heels of the GECs. And although I love mine to bits, I must admit I would find it hard to justify the usually horrendous GEC prices being demanded, lol!
> 
> ...


 

 Hi H1, I agree on your verdict regarding 2 ECC31. It is by no means bad even with my gear but I think it will shine where brightness needs to to be tamed as you so rightly pointed out. Certainly very satisfying is the way ECC31 convey the bass. It is not the most impactful but it is full. Pardon the play on words. It also extends really well, better than any others.
  
 Yes it is true that these Italian and French marvels are sonically this good at their price point. It's a real bargain compared to aristocrat ECC31.
  
@CITIZENLIN  has both TS BGRP 6SN7 and the 2031 now. Perhaps he can give us the verdict.


----------



## UntilThen

I won the bid for the pair of etched glass FDD20 at Eur 65. Well it's still ain't too bad, from starting bid of Eur 47.
  
 Who's trying to bid with me? Told you not to. I have a max bid of the Australian Federal Reserve gold vault. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 
  
 World War 2 started on the 1st September 1939 with the invasion of Poland by Germany. That war lasted till 14th August 1945. These tubes are produced in between those war years in Italy.
 I follow WW2 history. It takes me back to a time where humanity is at its lowest. Saddest period. I have visited Pearl Harbour in Oahu, Hawaii and also stood before the Bomb Dome Site in Hiroshima at 9pm at night. It's a sombre feeling. My next place of visit is Normandy, France.
  
 So these tubes are special for me and I am glad I won the bid. In total now I have 8 FDD20. I need an amp that can use all 8 at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*RARE FDD20 PHILIPS Miniwatt Italian **double triode fit MINT - **NOS, produced in Italy on May 25, 1942. *


----------



## Suuup

I just came home, from a long day of work, and what do I find on my table? A package containing a beautiful pair of Visseaux 6N7G AKA Joybringers.
  
 Behold!


  
 I am also happy to report, that there is absolutely no hum at all.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I just came home, from a long day of work, and what do I find on my table? A package containing a beautiful pair of Visseaux 6N7G AKA Joybringers.
> 
> I am also happy to report, that there is absolutely no hum at all.


 
 You too have my missing link ..the Visseaux 6N7G. They are almost identical to the Mazda 6N7G in construction internally and to a lesser degree the Fivre 6N7G.
  
 I'm almost certain they sound very similar to my Visseaux 6A6 but one can never be sure. I don't need anymore tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No hum is good and do provide a detail report of how it sounds to your ears. What power tubes are those?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You too have my missing link ..the Visseaux 6N7G. They are almost identical to the Mazda 6N7G in construction internally and to a lesser degree the Fivre 6N7G.
> 
> I'm almost certain they sound very similar to my Visseaux 6A6 but one can never be sure. I don't need anymore tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 They're 5998's. Will give the Visseaux a good long listen and write my impressions! I wonder how they compare to my incoming Fivre 6N7G brown-base.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> They're 5998's. Will give the Visseaux a good long listen and write my impressions! I wonder how they compare to my incoming Fivre 6N7G brown-base.


 

 Haha I'm really excited for your Fivre 6N7G brown base. Really keen to hear your impressions on those too. Can I know how many gold bars it cost you?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Haha I'm really excited for your Fivre 6N7G brown base. Really keen to hear your impressions on those too. Can I know how many gold bars it cost you?


 
 Let's just say a lot. Got them through an Italian friend.


----------



## UntilThen

Haha good to have Italian friends. Btw your Visseaux 6N7G seems to be from the same Italian seller that I bought many tubes from. I recognise those handwritten test result stickers on the base of the tubes.
  
 Well those brown base Fivre 6N7G are really special looking..I think it's worth it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Haha good to have Italian friends. Btw your Visseaux 6N7G seems to be from the same Italian seller that I bought many tubes from. I recognise those handwritten test result stickers on the base of the tubes.
> 
> Well those brown base Fivre 6N7G are really special looking..I think it's worth it.


 
 It's the same seller whom I bought my pair of C3G from. Didn't notice until he sent me a message, asking how the C3g's were. Seems like a good guy to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I just came home, from a long day of work, and what do I find on my table? A package containing a beautiful pair of Visseaux 6N7G AKA Joybringers.
> 
> Behold!
> 
> ...




Yeah for *Joybringers* Suuup! They look exactly like mine!

They should pair most excellently with your 5998's!

Can't wait to hear what you think of them!

Congrats!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I won the bid for the pair of etched glass FDD20 at Eur 65. Well it's still ain't too bad, from starting bid of Eur 47.
> 
> Who's trying to bid with me? Told you not to. I have a max bid of the Australian Federal Reserve gold vault. :wink_face:
> 
> ...




Very Good, UT!

My Phillips Miniwatt bottles have a 1943 tax stamp sticker and have dates that are meaningful to me. I absolutely LOVE mine and you will soon see that these are fine tubes, indeed.

Congrats!

.


----------



## Suuup

If you have Tidal, try Mermaids by Hans Zimmer. It's from the 4th Pirates of the Caribbean movie - It's terrible, don't ever watch it. This track is quite nice though. If you don't want to listen to the whole song, put it at 1:50. At 2:00 a deep cavernous bass sets in, with some choir song going on as well. The combination of high and deep is really good.


----------



## Suuup

Just a silly question here.. Would it be possible to use 2A3 tubes in the Elise?
  
 Edit: It's a triode, so 2 x 2 of them, with external heating? What am I missing?


----------



## UntilThen

*The ubiquitous 2031 aka FDD20/2031*
  
 For a while I have been trying to distinguish what makes this pairing sounds so nice and different compared to the Italian and French drivers which are also very nice sounding.
 So I sat down again for a very close listen to 2031 especially after a day of Visseaux and Fivre drivers yesterday.
  
 It came down to the word timbre. Timbre is simply what makes a particular musical sound different from another, even when they have the same pitch and loudness. I think this aptly describes the difference between these tubes. Timbre is the characteristic quality of sound produced by a particular instrument or voice; tone colour.
  
 It's these tubes that shows the different tone colour and quality more prominently. 
  
 Visseaux, Fivre and Mazda (although they are not 100% same sounding but similar) are very clear, transparent and detail sounding. There is a musical equivalent of a perfect Spring day, where the sun is out, clouds drifting overhead and the robins are singing. Bass is controlled and of a very good quality. There is nothing lacking in the overall tonal spectrum and envelope. They are just sublime to listen to.
  
 2031 brings an added layer of fullness, warm and lushness. I will stop here for a second to clarify myself. This is not to say that the Visseaux, Fivre and Mazda are lacking in fullness, warm and lushness. On the contrary they are there in abundance. It's just that in the 2031, those qualities are a little more present and it's immediately noticeable. Bass is reminiscent of the ECC31, full and very well extended. Midrange and Treble are faultless. This is what makes the 2031 special.
  
 On the whole, as a subjective evaluation of these, I've to revise the 2031 score to 9.9 while the others remain at 9.8.
  
 All very enjoyable driver tubes with Chatham 6AS7G for sure.


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





suuup said:


> If you have Tidal, try Mermaids by Hans Zimmer. It's from the 4th Pirates of the Caribbean movie - It's terrible, don't ever watch it. This track is quite nice though. If you don't want to listen to the whole song, put it at 1:50. At 2:00 a deep cavernous bass sets in, with some choir song going on as well. The combination of high and deep is really good.


 

 Yes just heard it. Sounds marvellous on the 2031. 
  
 I accidentally click on artist 'Mermaids' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's deep house sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

It's been hot for 3 continous days ....temperature hovering close to 40 degrees celsius.

 So I've move Elise to the lounge for some HiFi goodness with aircon comfort.

 Now fall back to my precious CDs...
 Listening to JVC xrcd2 sampler. Super high quality recordings.

 Using Fivre 6N7G and 5998. Sounds so beautiful.
  
 Axis LS28 glorious sounding.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey man...like Jim Carrey use to say.
I just discovered that whilst my speakers are playing with Elise as preamp, I can connect my headphone to either Elise or my receiver and get glorious sound from both headphone and speakers. Of course my receiver has a switch to allow just headphone listening or both.

For what it's worth I thought that the sound from my HP plugged to the receiver with Elise as preamp sounded better. 

Has anyone experience otherwise? 
Please share.


----------



## UntilThen

Of course my receiver is the vintage old and famous Nakamichi ....

close but it's the made in UK Sherwood Newcastle R945. This was when they were trying to make Sherwood more exotic...hence the Newcastle range.

Unfortunately my Denon AVR 3805 does not have a preamp in otherwise the amplification there is even more solid. It certainly drives my floorstanding LS88 through the thunderstorms. Man the LS88 shines like crazy diamonds. There was a time I spend just listening to it for days like I'm doing with Elise and headphone now.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I am able to play headphones either directly from the Elise or through my integrated amp. As a rule, straight from the Elise sounds better, but some tubes hum straight from the Elise, but not from the integrated amp.
  
 The integrated amp has tone controls which I use for the speakers and sometimes for the headphones.
  
 I do not have an explanation why the occasional hum is not heard through my integrated amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wow another discovery. I was enjoying music through my speakers with Elise as preamp until I put on headphone and immediately my eyes came together.

Headphone sound so much better its unreal...I mean very real. I think one needs a very expensive HiFi system to beat an affordable Head-Fi system such as mine and even then it's a different experience.


----------



## UntilThen

I really don't know why it hums sometimes on your Elise but not through you receiver Mordy.

I must be very fortunate that there is no hum at all from either Elise or the receiver.


----------



## UntilThen

Man would you believe it?
My Hd650 has enormous soundstage plugged into my receiver with Elise as preamp. This is way more soundstage than through Elise straight.

This is where Lorspeaker says about expanded soundstage with Elise as preamp but it's even more pronounced with HP through receiver than through speakers with Elise as preamp.


----------



## Lord Raven

I only asked seller a question, now the item is showing in my account as 'You bought the item' now pay for it? What Sorcery is that? LOL


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I only asked seller a question, now the item is showing in my account as 'You bought the item' now pay for it? What Sorcery is that? LOL


 

 You must have click to buy accidentally. There is no way that can happen if you simply ask seller a question. This is eBay not anyBay.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You must have click to buy accidentally. There is no way that can happen if you simply ask seller a question. This is eBay not anyBay.


 
 It's a set of 3 Philips FDD20 Mini Watt tubes, I cannot buy without ask few questions to the seller, first of all, if the shipping tracking based?
  
 Two of my parcels are lost in the mail, even when they were tracking based, damn it!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am in 2031 land...




It is rather crazy how well these two mate. I would not have believed it, until I tried it.

The 20 adds "attack" and "decay", "space" and a little reverb that is missing in the 'lazy' 31. The 31 adds that wide luscious bass, as wide as a football field. 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Raven of course you're entitled to ask seller questions but what I'm saying is just by asking questions will not put those items in your buy baskets. If that kind of stuff happens then we're all in strife.

I ask questions all the time but that doesn't happen to me.


----------



## UntilThen

JV that's a brilliant combination. Soccer field soundstage sure sounds good.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven of course you're entitled to ask seller questions but what I'm saying is just by asking questions will not put those items in your buy baskets. If that kind of stuff happens then we're all in strive.
> 
> I ask questions all the time but that doesn't happen to me.




Strange. Should I buy FDD20 by Phillips?


----------



## UntilThen

Those Philips FDD20 are the 21st century robots that does all your housework and be your chauffeur. 

So simple answer is...buy it..just make sure your postal service delivers.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

The Elise "upgraded tubes" are now Sylvania instead of Melz on new product.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> The Elise "upgraded tubes" are now Sylvania instead of Melz on new product.





Hi PA,

That's interesting because it's not updated on the Feliks Audio website. Still showing Melz. Are you ordering Elise?

Cheers
UT


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Those Philips FDD20 are the 21st century robots that does all your housework and be your chauffeur.
> 
> So simply answer is...buy it..just make sure your postal service delivers.




LOL this poetic audiophile language brings trouble to our lives. 

The ad says their used, When I asked seller he said they're new lol Help me translate.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Yep.  Taking the plunge.  
  
 Lukasz said they were having some issues getting matching sets of the Melz


----------



## Lord Raven

perfectanalog said:


> Yep.  Taking the plunge.
> 
> Lukasz said they were having some issues getting matching sets of the Melz




Welcome to the club  Don't buy any tubes, look at us, we don't even use them lol


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha you need a sense of humour in this hobby. 

Show me the link and I'll tell you whether it's safe to buy.

Wrong Raven we use our tubes for sure.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Hahaha you need a sense of humour in this hobby.
> 
> Show me the link and I'll tell you whether it's safe to buy.
> 
> Wrong Raven we use our tubes for sure.




I'm sure in due time there'll be another top tier set of tubes will surface and this one rolls down lol like ECC31 haha 

The item is no longer available, only shows in my pay now lol


----------



## PerfectAnalog

It will by a while before I go tube crazy.  Elise was a bit of a reach.  Chose it over the Valhalla.  No need for double the cost in tubes (just yet).


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Yep.  Taking the plunge.
> 
> Lukasz said they were having some issues getting matching sets of the Melz




My advice is not to get any tubes...I'll recommend power and driver tubes for you.

If you must get stock tubes just get the base one.

Welcome PA look forward to your contribution here. We're a friendly group.


----------



## Lord Raven

perfectanalog said:


> It will by a while before I go tube crazy.  Elise was a bit of a reach.  Chose it over the Valhalla.  No need for double the cost in tubes (just yet).




Good choice  Glad to meet you, I'm also stock so far lol I'm number 13!


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> It will by a while before I go tube crazy.  Elise was a bit of a reach.  Chose it over the Valhalla.  No need for double the cost in tubes (just yet).




If you want to go economical then buy a pair of GE 6AS7GA for $22.
Then buy a pair of 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters for $38 and a pair of RCA or Sylvania 6A6 for $15.

For a bit more substitute the GE 6AS7GA for Mullard 6080 for $50

However it's your choice. No harm going with stock tubes. They are a big jump coming from your Valhalla.

Elise sounds great with any tubes. That's a fact.


----------



## UntilThen

Problem is I'm willing to sell my stock tubes now at half price....


----------



## UntilThen

Omg my hd650 sounds like Orpheus now with Elise as preamp and through my 75 watts rms Sherwood.

Drums sounds like live solo. Jennifer Warnes sounds like up where she belongs in Famous Blue Raincoat. Midrange to die for. Bass ...oh man...they will shake your guts.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

The TungSol?  Aren't they like $20 tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

You mean the ones offered as stock tubes on Elise?

Those if you buy on your own in eBay will cost about $45 a pair. The Svetlana are much cheaper.
Good as the TS are, they are no where in comparison to either 6a6 or 6n7g.

These are new reissue TS not the new old stocks from the 40s to 60s

A pair of Tung Sol Black round plates 6sn7gt will set you back several hundred dollars


----------



## Lord Raven

Keep the stock tubes for burning in your future tubes lol


----------



## UntilThen

I'm not here to dispose of my tubes. I rather not sell them being a collector.

It's good to see more buyers of Elise.


----------



## aqsw

​


perfectanalog said:


> It will by a while before I go tube crazy.  Elise was a bit of a reach.  Chose it over the Valhalla.  No need for double the cost in tubes (just yet).




My son has a Valhalla. I don't even have my Elise yet, and I know you made the right choice.

That is one boring amp!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> ​My son has a Valhalla. I don't even have my Elise yet, and I know you made the right choice.
> 
> That is one boring amp!




aqsw it's time to order another Elise for your son so he doesn't take yours.

You have no idea how good Elise is. It's the best way to spend $649.

This was supposed to be my Christmas toy but I've open my present early.


----------



## UntilThen

Headphones listening through my Sherwood receiver with Elise as preamp is truly an experience not to be forgotten. These dynamic drivers are being driven to insanity by the more muscular amp. Immediately apparent is a sound that is full blown with bass that sounds like real speakers. Soundstage is humongous. Bigger than T-Rex.

Try it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is what Mordy's 6BL7's will have to beat:



It's a BIG JOB, Mordy 


.


----------



## UntilThen

That indeed looks awesome. Did you just have one ground wire for both negatives from the fdd20?

I really don't know how we'll need more bass than what is already present in the 2031 or any of the Visseaux, Mazda or Fivre. It's solid to the core. Any more and it'll put Dr. Beats headphones to shame.


----------



## UntilThen

HP straight into Elise though with a smite less soundstage compared to through receiver, has attack sustain an decay to make you cringe. Feels like the speed and precision of a high end solid state with all the goodness of tube amp. It's frightening how Elise grips the HD650 and make the Sennhesier sings.


----------



## UntilThen

I know now exactly what needs to be done. Get a good stereo amp with preamp input and dedicated headphone output. Use Elise as preamp and you've high fidelity that cost 5 figures. Slap on a HD800 or T1 and you've a match made in heaven.

Even with a budget Sherwood receiver at $1200 new, the sound I'm getting now is definitely my preferred sound compared to Elise alone.

I'm only using an Onkyo dvd player for cd playback but mind you its a $500 dvd player back in 1998 and it's gold in colour...gold plated H1


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I know now exactly what needs to be done. Get a good stereo amp with preamp input and dedicated headphone output. Use Elise as preamp and you've high fidelity that cost 5 figures. Slap on a HD800 or T1 and you've a match made in heaven.
> 
> Even with a budget Sherwood receiver at $1200 new, the sound I'm getting now is definitely my preferred sound compared to Elise alone.
> 
> I'm only using an Onkyo dvd player for cd playback but mind you its a $500 dvd player back in 1998 and it's gold in colour...gold plated H1


0

Im hoping a good balanced hp amp will do even better. Im waiting on my carbon. I'm sure it will sound better than my huge Denon amp.headphone out.


----------



## UntilThen

You need this aqsw  Something British.
  

  
 Naim Audio NAIT 5si integrated amplifier


----------



## UntilThen

Going through another headphone amp I found the gain to drop and you need to control both amp volume. This problem is not present with Elise into Sherwood. Elise volume control does everything. Sherwood volume does nothing. Gain remains as strong as ever if not more.

Elise alone or with my Sherwood is amazing. I don't need more.

Robin Hood of Sherwood Forest remember. Just need Maid Marian.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> You need this aqsw  Something British.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





untilthen said:


> You need this aqsw  Something British.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lòoks nice, but I'm a big Hegel fan. Saving up or an H160 integrated


----------



## UntilThen

Ooooo Hegel H160...One heart of your HiFi system. Beautiful. Good choice aqsw. Together with your Hegel dac it's perfect. How many turkeys for the H160?


----------



## aqsw

The guy I buy my stuff from takes very good care of me. I can get his demo 160 in about two months from now. About half price.


----------



## UntilThen

I read the review on the H160. It's a substantial integrated amp for sure with a price of $3500 to match.

Very nice though even the looks. Reminds me a bit of the Rega but this is obviously in a different league.


----------



## UntilThen

source > Elise > integrated amp with preamp input and output HP socket > headphone.

The word here is more organic, larger soundstage, solid bass and speaker like sound.

Try it. Elise alone is lesser of those attributes above. This is my marathon listening session. 

Suuup what happen to the Joybringers review?


----------



## Lord Raven

Bought 3 FDD20 Philips, I hope to find the write adapters next.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> That indeed looks awesome. Did you just have one ground wire for both negatives from the fdd20?




Yes, grounding the neg side of the 12v once, is all that is needed. 
Could be grounded elsewhere too, out of sight, That is what I will do with the new set of adapters...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Bought 3 FDD20 Philips, I hope to find the write adapters next.




You will love the Philips Miniwatt branded FDD20's. 

Here is the new adapter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201469024939

.


----------



## Oskari

oskari said:


>


 
  
 Just sayin'.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Power supply for 12v, already properly grounded (for USA peeps):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271974572553

And should work for 6BL7 too, after you run it through the voltage regulator that Mordy pointed us to:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231104103029

$20.00 or so, for both items.

Think I will send the big ugly computer power supply, I ordered, back.


.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Just sayin'.  :wink_face:




Nice!

What a difference an L makes


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> You will love the Philips Miniwatt branded FDD20's.
> 
> Here is the new adapter:
> 
> ...




Thank you  Just ordered, next I'm going to be hunting power supply.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Don't send back the big ugly PS yet - you may need it for a pair of 6336 tubes LOL, {A glorious 10A current draw.)


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,
  
 I do want to point out that there are plenty of 5A voltage regulators with built in voltage readouts very inexpensive, but I still recommend the bigger one in case you want to use it for 2.5=5A tubes - I feel that the reserve capacity is important after a smaller one shorted out on me.
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Step-Down-Power-Module-4V-38V-to-1-25V-36V-5A-LED-Voltmeter-Adjustable-/401027065499hash=item5d5f13669b:g:6d4AAOSwpdpVcZfo
  
  
 If you look at the top middle of the picture you see a little slotted screw. Just turn it and this changes the voltage which will show on the readout. (Readout can be shut off is desired.)


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> I do want to point out that there are plenty of 5A voltage regulators with built in voltage readouts very inexpensive, but I still recommend the bigger one in case you want to use it for 2.5=5A tubes - I feel that the reserve capacity is important after a smaller one shorted out on me.
> 
> ...




The listing is removed. I'm interested in multi purpose PS either  Initially I was looking for a high end LPS but that's only constant output. DAC and FDD20 can benefit.


----------



## mordy

*DC-DC Step Down Power Module 4V-38V to 1.25V-36V 5A LED Voltmeter Adjustable*
  
*Look on eBay for this type of item and choose lowest price + shipping from the drop down menu.*


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Don't send back the big ugly PS yet - you may need it for a pair of 6336 tubes LOL, {A glorious 10A current draw.)




Hello Mordy....

A 10 AMP current draw!!!!???

Ka-ZOW!!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *The ubiquitous 2031 aka FDD20/2031*
> 
> For a while I have been trying to distinguish what makes this pairing sounds so nice and different compared to the Italian and French drivers which are also very nice sounding.
> So I sat down again for a very close listen to 2031 especially after a day of Visseaux and Fivre drivers yesterday.
> ...


 
  
 Nice to see the revised score for 2031 (aka 'magic combo'), lol! I still cannot believe what this pairing is capable of delivering - regardless of the music genre....Elise + 2031 brings magic to whatever you throw at her....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...
  


jazzvinyl said:


> I am in 2031 land...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...remember the ridicule I was dished when I first described how these 2 tubes paired provided what was slightly lacking in each...plus an extra splash of Fairy Dust?...not to mention what you and UT also endured back then?  It warms my heart that prolonged - and careful! - listening has subsequently vindicated our "crazy" statements. I could otherwise have so easily retreated back into my shell, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...I do hope even more trail-blazers manage to experience the joy this combo brings to the already immensely joyful Elise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


perfectanalog said:


> Yep.  Taking the plunge.
> 
> Lukasz said they were having some issues getting matching sets of the Melz


 
  
 Good choice re. the Elise, PA...and WELCOME!!...now the tricky question of which tubes to go for!...study carefully all the latest findings by the great guys here, and remember..._*take your time, lol!!!*_...as has already been said, you won't be disappointed with whichever you choose - hopefully you can manage to sample at least a few of them!...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey UT...you were asking for pics of peoples' room setups a while back?  Well, here's mine, for what it's worth lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Hopefully, others will get their cameras out also....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...which does actually bring me to the question - _*where is everybody?!!*_  We are now well into the 20s for Elise owners, and yet we seem to be short a fair few feedbacks, let alone pictures, lol! (Unless I haven't been keeping a proper count  - which is quite likely given the liveliness of this thread and the original one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So I appeal to any who may have not yet given their views to please let us know what you think...and give us some pictures as well, of course!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you were asking for pics of peoples' room setups a while back?  Well, here's mine, for what it's worth lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi H1, in one word...beautiful. Love your setup, especially with Elise perched on the top of the stack of gear. I have a love for small speakers. Good ones sound great and yours is a Dynaudio Focus 110. Much as I love my tall floor stander LS88, I prefer the small LS28 on stands, just like what you have there.
  
 I'm still blown away from a night of listening through my HP via the receiver with Elise as preamp. It's simply magic. I can say for certainty that I don't need Elise to be any better or that I need better tubes. It's all there now in this setup. Even Elise alone is magic. Simply irresistible. The sound now is an organic, living, breathing sound.
  
 2031 is a discovery of epic proportion. I don't need to convince anyone about this pairing. With all the tubes that I have now, the fact is this is the best sounding combo to my ears. I am itching to plug in the 2 incoming etched glass Philips FDD20 with 5998. I await to see if that will be a 10 for me.
  
 Shocking as it maybe, I just realised my posts have past the 1500 mark LOL. I'm usually reserved by nature. This is very unusual. See what Elise has done to me. I shall now wind back and let others post their impressions. To all the Elise owners, this is your thread. Please feel free to contribute.
  
 Lastly, I repeat again. I love to see pictures of your setup. So let it roll...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is my 'Analog Den" where the 2000 LP's and the main turntable and speaker setup, lives:




Here is my DIY mini monitors that I love so much...with Audax Carbon Fiber woofers, Vifa tweeters, diy crossover with magic fairy dust sprinkled on... 




A custom light that I made - gives interest to an otherwise boring corner of the room (I like it, because it's one of a kind):




How do you keep 2000 LP's straight? Here is how I do it:




Oh and...what time is it?





Cheers to all...


----------



## mordy

HI UT,
  
 Well, 5A each.
  

 
  
  Tube type: Double Triode   Power-supply 

Identical to*6336* = CK6336Similar Tubes Normally replaceable-slightly different:
   6336A ; 6336B Heater different:
   6394First Source (s)11.Sep.1953 : Electron Tube Registration List 1235
  
*Base*Octal (Int.Octal, IO) K8A, USA 1935*Filament*Vf 6.3 Volts / *If 4.75 Ampere* / Indirect /*Description*Low mu twin triode, intended as series regulator in power supply circuits. 30W or 400mA per plate, 60W total. Hard glass bulb. The tube can replace two 6080s in parallel. 
 Chatham, GE, Raytheon, RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol some of the manufacturers.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is my 'Analog Den" where the 2000 LP's and the main turntable and speaker setup, lives:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers to all...


 
 I love your den JV. Looks like a private disco lounge. I must visit when I come to USA. Those 2000 LPs are amazing. Steve Jobs once had an incredible music library of LPs. The creator of iPod chose LPs for his megabucks system.
  
 Those are very tasty speaker tweeter and mid bass woofer. Good stuff. DIY for the win.
  
 Finally I would love that clock. Really I would. Looks like the vinyl bug will get to me. It's a matter of time.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> HI UT,
> 
> Well, 5A each.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy,
  
 I'll be watching keenly from the sidelines you and JV's experimentation of 6BL7. Hopefully you will get on to 6336 too. I think there's real potentials there. The adventures of Elise in Wonderland continues...
  
 Cheers
 UT


----------



## UntilThen

Sherwood Newcastle R945's in the studio. I located the review that led me to buy this receiver in 1998. As an amp with Elise as preamp, I've found the sound I'm looking for. Amazing how my old audio gear has been resurrected by the arrival of Elise. This receiver was packed away in it's box and left in storage. If you have a good old vintage receiver, use it with Elise.
  
 http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-av-receivers/av-receivers/sherwood-newcastle-r-945-receiver.html
  
 In this setup, I can listen on my headphone through Elise direct or via the Sherwood with Elise as preamp. Both are so absolutely stunning in musical enjoyment. This is 1st class seat in the Sydney Opera House. 
  

  
 Sydney Opera House

  
 Interior of Sydney Opera House


----------



## Lord Raven

I just opened 3 return requests on eBay mainly cause I did not receive the items. 1 pair ECC31 tracked shipment, 1 tube 5998 tracked shipment, 1 tube ECC31 no tracking. 
  
 I want to know if the complete amount is refunded or just the item price and not the shipping cost? It costs a lot to ship to my location. I am very sad!


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> *DC-DC Step Down Power Module 4V-38V to 1.25V-36V 5A LED Voltmeter Adjustable*
> 
> *Look on eBay for this type of item and choose lowest price + shipping from the drop down menu.*


 
 Thanks Mordy bro, I am still searching  Is there a regulated LPS that can also be used with the DAC, some super clean LPS with multiple outputs. I want to kill two birds with one stone.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I just opened 3 return requests on eBay mainly cause I did not receive the items. 1 pair ECC31 tracked shipment, 1 tube 5998 tracked shipment, 1 tube ECC31 no tracking.
> 
> I want to know if the complete amount is refunded or just the item price and not the shipping cost? It costs a lot to ship to my location. I am very sad!




Questions regarding the mail service you are experiencing:

1> Is every single address in the Kingdom prone to this inability to deliver mail?

2> How about business address' in the Kingdom? Are they also prone to this inability to deliver mail (even when tracking is purchased)?

3> What about UPS? Can they manage to deliver packages in the Kingdom?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Sherwood Newcastle R945's in the studio. I located the review that led me to buy this receiver in 1998. As an amp with Elise as preamp, I've found the sound I'm looking for. Amazing how my old audio gear has been resurrected by the arrival of Elise. This receiver was packed away in it's box and left in storage. If you have a good old vintage receiver, use it with Elise.
> 
> http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-av-receivers/av-receivers/sherwood-newcastle-r-945-receiver.html
> 
> ...




Hello UT...

You always see the exterior of the Sydney Opera House...

What an extremely impressive interior!

Did you decide to separate out the towers from the bookshelf speakers and amplify them separately?

.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Questions regarding the mail service you are experiencing:
> 
> 1> Is every single address in the Kingdom prone to this inability to deliver mail?
> 
> ...


 
 1> YES
 2> Not really, business address are bound to hire a P.O. Box, if you have this facility in your office then they deliver. They lose the items with addresses without P.O. Box. Therefore I subscribed to this facility after this big loss, it costs a small amount yearly but they did not charge me that. Maybe 25 USD. I have already bought FDD20 and Adapters and sent them on this P.O. Box to check if it is delivered or not. Both shipments are tracked.
 3> UPS handles the packages to local post, after that, tracking is available on local post's website, which initially was only in Arabic language and was hard to decipher but recently they have added English.
  
 Only one seller responded that if the parcel is sent back then he will refund my money, I don't think this is a satisfactory answer. What should I do?


----------



## JazzVinyl

[quote name="Lord Raven" url="/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/2580#post_12095108"
Only one seller responded that if the parcel is sent back then he will refund my money, I don't think this is a satisfactory answer. What should I do?
[/quote]

Stop ordering items that have to be delivered my the Saudi Mail system? I don't know.
Must be rediclously frustrating. Sympathies, LR...

Can''t imagine the idea of not being able to receive mail. Especially tracked mail. 
Where is all the stuff going? Black market?

.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> [quote name="Lord Raven" url="/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/2580#post_12095108"
> Only one seller responded that if the parcel is sent back then he will refund my money, I don't think this is a satisfactory answer. What should I do?


 
 Stop ordering items that have to be delivered my the Saudi Mail system? I don't know.

 Can''t imagine the idea of not being able to receive mail. Especially tracked mail.
 Where is all the stuff going? Black market?

 .[/quote]

 I think it is a good idea but the shipment cost using other services is huge, plus eBay sellers don't offer multiple shipping types. They offer their governmental services and then local post takes over which is also governmental service LOL 
  
 I am going to see if they deliver now that I have a POBox


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I am going to see if they deliver now that I have a POBox




Yes, hope you better luck with the PO Box.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

LR...

I just read elsewhere on the net that Saudi Arabia does not offer "home delivery" and that if the Post Office gets a pkg for you, they call you, to come pick it up...just as you said they did.

Also says you either buy the PO box or register with another private company who gets your mail, and you pick it up from them?

Seems bizarre, to say the least....


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> LR...
> 
> I just read elsewhere on the net that Saudi Arabia does not offer "home delivery" and that if the Post Office gets a pkg for you, they call you, to come pick it up...just as you said they did.
> 
> ...


 
 In Denmark we have a mix. We can choose between getting the packaged delivered to the door (more expensive), or have the package delivered to a postbox (which are everywhere). I prefer the postbox, as it's cheaper, and there's only 200m to the nearest one. If I choose delivery to my address and I'm not home, I have 4 km to the nearest post office(on bike). It works well here!


----------



## Lord Raven

I found that the hardest way, by losing 3 tracked shipments. I specifically asked the sellers to write my mobile number in the address and they did. Unfortunately, I did not receive any call or notification from the post office. It is crazy and I am surprised this happened with me. I have bought expensive amplifiers from the USA and they were delivered at my door steps, only had bad luck with the governmental postal services.
  
 Do you know the story how I got my Elise? I drove 200Kms to get it from another city LOL
  
 I got the POBOX now, and I really hope it will work, or my tube rolling will not start for a very long time. I am not from KSA, I just work here. And soon I will be moving forward from this SQ dead country.
  
 Thanks for your support brothers  I am hitting the gym now.. LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

I am left with Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080 power tubes and Philips FDD20 Miniwatt tubes as drivers. I received the ECC31 adapters, which I don't know what I am going to do. I only got one ECC31 tube.
  
 Looks like I will be living in the 2031


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello UT...
> 
> You always see the exterior of the Sydney Opera House...
> 
> ...


 

 The towers are 4 ohms load and benefit from more amplification. Hence I bought the Denon. These speakers were hooked up as a 5.1 home theatre using initially the Sherwood and then later with Denon. I could have use Sherwood as preamp out to Denon to drive the towers whilst the Sherwood drive the 3 bookshelf but I have never found the need. They already sounded excellent with either AV receiver alone. Add the DeFinitive Technology subwoofer and it's earth shattering.
  
 In stereo mode, I use either the towers or the bookshelf. Optionally I could also add in the sub via the receiver setup and give the added bass boost even in stereo mode. A very enjoyable experience though not for the audiophile purists.
  
 The Sherwood is now in my office with Elise as preamp and that's how I listen through my headphone while the Denon remains in the lounge with the speakers. I find in this setup, the sound is 3D, holographic, Opera House soundstage. Totally immersive experience.


----------



## UntilThen

After hearing all these delivery stories, I realise what an excellent postal service Australia Post has. If you're not at home at the time of delivery, a note is left on your doorstep asking you to collect at the Post Office if it's a signature required delivery. I have never lost a single post or tube that I have ordered.


----------



## UntilThen

If you know what the interior of the most famous theatres in the world look like, perhaps you can close your eyes whilst listening to your headphones with Elise and be transported there for a live performance. So starting one everyday, I shall showcase these amazing sound auditoriums and amphitheatres. Remember only Elise can recreate this experience. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Boston Opera House


 Interior of Boston Opera House


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> After hearing all these delivery stories, I realise what an excellent postal service Australia Post has. If you're not at home at the time of delivery, a note is left on your doorstep asking you to collect at the Post Office if it's a signature required delivery. I have never lost a single post or tube that I have ordered.


 
 Now I want to move there 
  
 Depending upon my stash I am left with, what do you suggest?  What is lost is lost, I don't know what is going to happen but I am still excited to see the remaining stuff. I delivered it to a friend in UK who is going to see me soon LOL That is the only thing I could do to get these tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, just a little insider's tip I just discovered about buying audio equip. online. There is a service that will give you email notifications when the item you're searching for is available. Just visit www.Hifishark.com then search for your item. Then at the bottom of the page is a banner to sign up so that you will be the first to know when it's available by signing up for a notification. Hifishark is like a hi-fi audio equipment search engine that searches Head-Fi marketplace, eBay, Canuk Audio Mart, etc. This should be very useful for any of you searching again and again for rare tubes, for one.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Now I want to move there
> 
> Depending upon my stash I am left with, what do you suggest?  What is lost is lost, I don't know what is going to happen but I am still excited to see the remaining stuff. I delivered it to a friend in UK who is going to see me soon LOL That is the only thing I could do to get these tubes.


 

 My suggestion is not to buy anymore tubes until you come to Australia or to direct it to a friend elsewhere where the Postal Service is better and reliable.
  
 Secondly those tubes which you didn't get and which the seller says you have to return before you get a refund. Please tell the sellers to have their heads examine. How do you return something if you haven't receive it?
  
 My suggestion is to contact eBay by telephone ASAP. Tell them what happen. They can see your purchase history and I can assure you, eBay will assist you in the recovery of your money plus shipping cost. Don't even argue with the sellers. Start a return request stating non delivery of items. This is probably the 3rd time I'm telling you this.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> My suggestion is not to buy anymore tubes until you come to Australia or to direct it to a friend elsewhere where the Postal Service is better and reliable.
> 
> Secondly those tubes which you didn't get and which the seller says you have to return before you get a refund. Please tell the sellers to have their heads examine. How do you return something if you haven't receive it?
> 
> My suggestion is to contact eBay by telephone ASAP. Tell them what happen. They can see your purchase history and I can assure you, eBay will assist you in the recovery of your money plus shipping cost. Don't even argue with the sellers. Start a return request stating non delivery of items. This is probably the 3rd time I'm telling you this.


 
 This is what I am doing, redirecting them to friends. I redirected my headphones to a friend in Oz.
  
 What is their helpline number? I will call them now, I cannot wait forever. What do I tell them? That I lost three purchases in the mail, where do I get the reference numbers of these items bought? Let's do it!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

OK I got the eBay number which is *866-540-3229, how do I dial it from my mobile phone? They don't have their international dialing code mentioned..*


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> This is what I am doing, redirecting them to friends. I redirected my headphones to a friend in Oz.
> 
> What is their helpline number? I will call them now, I cannot wait forever. What do I tell them? That I lost three purchases in the mail, where do I get the reference numbers of these items bought? Let's do it!!!!


 

 Do this first. This is the 1st step.
  
 Click on Help & Contact at the top.
 Select 'Didn't receive item'
 Then follow the instructions there...which is this...
  

Here's how it works The eBay Money Back Guarantee covers your purchase price plus original shipping for virtually all items on eBay.com. We guarantee you'll get the item you ordered or your money back.

1 Open a request

 Let the seller know you haven't received the item. Select *Open a request*.

2 Not resolved? Let us know

 If you’re waiting for a response, you can check the status of your request. If you're not happy with the seller's resolution after 3 business days of opening your request, ask us to step in and help.

3 We'll get your money back fast

 You'll get an answer within 2 days, and if your request qualifies, we'll send you a refund.

  

  

 To contact eBay by phone, click on the 'contact us' icon below that page. Then click on 'call us'. You will get a telephone number and a one time passcode.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> OK I got the eBay number which is *866-540-3229, how do I dial it from my mobile phone? They don't have their international dialing code mentioned..*


 

 That's all you need to dial from your phone.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Hey guys, just a little insider's tip I just discovered about buying audio equip. online. There is a service that will give you email notifications when the item you're searching for is available. Just visit www.Hifishark.com then search for your item. Then at the bottom of the page is a banner to sign up so that you will be the first to know when it's available by signing up for a notification. Hifishark is like a hi-fi audio equipment search engine that searches Head-Fi marketplace, eBay, Canuk Audio Mart, etc. This should be very useful for any of you searching again and again for rare tubes, for one.


 

 Thanks DL. I have seen that site before. However when searching for tubes, I usually go through eBay because of their money back guarantee should something go wrong. I type in the tube designation I'm looking for and change filter to 'world wide' instead of just USA.
  
 Buying from external parties, you have to ensure you have the same safeguard mechanism in place for reclaiming money and shipping cost should the item be defective or non delivery. Also always play by Paypal. Paypal is a separate entity from eBay and they also help you recover your cost should your transactions go belly up.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh no my friends, HifiShark is just a search engine for audio products. Once you click a listing, you're on the original site like eBay directly. I was just recommending them as a way to get notified when your item become available instead of having to search again and again for a hard to find item.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Oh no my friends, HifiShark is just a search engine for audio products. Once you click the item, you're on the original site like eBay directly. I was just recommending them as a way to get notified when your item become available instead of having to search again and again for a hard to find item.


 

 Yes I know that but I don't want to get redirected to a non eBay site for the above reasons that I stated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There are a few non eBay sites which I have pleasant buying experience from. Parts Express and Parts Connexion. Langrex too but they are also located within eBay.
  
 Where tubes are concerned, I find that eBay has the best choices and price.
  
 Now I'm unofficially Asia Pacific Sales Rep for Elise and eBay.


----------



## UntilThen

So I've been going back and forth on Visseaux, Fivre, Mazda and 2031 AGAIN since yesterday.
  
 I'm starting to sound like a recorder but 2031 is very special. Put that on your bucket list to try it.
  
 Every time I listened to Vissseaux, Fivre and Mazda, I go wow. Then I put on 2031 and I go....HAPPINESS !!!
  
 Cheers to a good weekend ahead.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Do this first. This is the 1st step.
> 
> Click on Help & Contact at the top.
> Select 'Didn't receive item'
> ...


 
 Thanks, I have done this already earlier today  Did not get satisfactory responses from the sellers, I think it is beyond their control but eBay has to pay my money back somehow or the other.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> That's all you need to dial from your phone.


 
 I tried, it did not work from my mobile. Got any more ideas?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> So I've been going back and forth on Visseaux, Fivre, Mazda and 2031 AGAIN since yesterday.
> 
> I'm starting to sound like a recorder but 2031 is very special. Put that on your bucket list to try it.
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like something is happening as it is destined. I only secured one ECC31 tube and 3 FDD20s, I will run them in 2031 configuration and a 2020 LOL
  
 I don't need anymore tubes, hoping for the best. Power department only needs GEC A1834 but let's keep it for next Christmas hehe


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I tried, it did not work from my mobile. Got any more ideas?


 

 If I call from Australia I dial this number *1800 322 928. Not sure if it will work for you in SA. Or you can dial 0011 plus your country code followed by 866-540-3229. *
  
*Anyway if you've open a ticket for return request, you should get a email response from eBay if you've put your email id there.*


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Looks like something is happening as it is destined. I only secured one ECC31 tube and 3 FDD20s, I will run them in 2031 configuration and a 2020 LOL
> 
> I don't need anymore tubes, hoping for the best. Power department only needs GEC A1834 but let's keep it for next Christmas hehe


 

 One ECC31 and 3 FDD20 is all you need. 2031 is the best combo IMO. I'm listening to it right now. It is nothing short of breathtaking.
  
 If you only have stock Svetlana power tubes, you should try and get Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080 or GE 6AS7GA from Parts Express. If you really have to use the Svetlana 6H13C, then that's fine till you get any of those power tubes. 
  
 This pair of Fivre 6N7G sounds very good. I have a pair. Grab it if I were you but you're likely to loose it on the camel delivery service. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Exactly the same pair and from the same seller I bought from. It's caviar of the finest quality.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coppia-vintage-Fivre-6N7G-ECC31-black-plates-with-Horn-anno-1942-made-in-/252170771264?hash=item3ab68c9b40:g:FKsAAOSwLzdWR3o4


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> If I call from Australia I dial this number *1800 322 928. Not sure if it will work for you in SA. Or you can dial 0011 plus your country code followed by 866-540-3229. *
> 
> *Anyway if you've open a ticket for return request, you should get a email response from eBay if you've put your email id there.*


 
 I will wait for a day and then call them, I think 1 is the dialing code for USA. I do have my email ID in eBay and I get their emails. 
  
 Let's hope for the best  Wish me luck though!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> One ECC31 and 3 FDD20 is all you need. 2031 is the best combo IMO. I'm listening to it right now. It is nothing short of breathtaking.
> 
> If you only have stock Svetlana power tubes, you should try and get Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080 or GE 6AS7GA from Parts Express. If you really have to use the Svetlana 6H13C, then that's fine till you get any of those power tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the great review of the combo 2031 and 2020  I already ordered 2 x adapters for FDD20 tubes from China. They'll arrive together, God willing!
  
 I have 4 x NOS Chatham 6AS7G tubes, coming in from USA. I acquired Mullard 6080WA already, they're with a friend and coming in December. GE 6AS7GA, I am not sure. I have this on my wishlist and will get the anytime soon, God willing.
  
 Regarding Fiver 6N7G, is it the tube known to Elise members as the joy bringers? Or am I confusing them?
  
 What do you think about the Mazda 6N7G compared with other brands? Thanks
  
 Edit: LOL The camel delivery sucks  It takes forever, they break your stuff haha


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Thanks for the great review of the combo 2031 and 2020  I already ordered 2 x adapters for FDD20 tubes from China. They'll arrive together, God willing!
> 
> I have 4 x NOS Chatham 6AS7G tubes, coming in from USA. I acquired Mullard 6080WA already, they're with a friend and coming in December. GE 6AS7GA, I am not sure. I have this on my wishlist and will get the anytime soon, God willing.
> 
> ...


 

 If you have Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080, then you don't need GE 6AS7GA. They're inferior to the Chatham and Mullard. Sorry if this upset fans of GE 6AS7GA but this is my opinion. Don't loose sleep over it like @Lorspeaker use to say. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You need to look at my post #2493 on my favourite combos.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/2490#post_12089893
  
 Mazda, Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G and 6A6 are equally good. JV coined the Visseaux 6N7G 'Joybringers'. IMO they are all Goldbringers.
  
 Mazda and Visseaux are French tubes. Fivre is Italian. So you have Bugatti (Mazda), Renault (Visseaux) and Ferrari (Fivre). FDD20 is Lamborghini - Philips Mini Watts made in Italy. So which car do you want to drive?


----------



## UntilThen

If I were you, I'll buy them all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Mazda (Bugatti)


 Visseaux (Renault)


 Fivre (Ferrari)


 FDD20 (Lamborghini)


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> ...
> This pair of Fivre 6N7G sounds very good. I have a pair. Grab it if I were you but you're likely to loose it on the camel delivery service.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Raven, please wait for the next batch, if you don't mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 while trying to hunt down a pr of ecc31 at a respectable price, i noticed one or two listings indicating/showing pan getters -- not rectangular pan getters but circular or upside-down saucer or 'ufo' getter.  these to me seemed like attribute of russian production ... & indeed, i believe it is skylab who stated in the 6as7g rolling thread that mullard, in its later years, did re-label russian stock as mullard made in britain tubes --- whether or not this affected ecc31, i'm not sure.
  
 the following is also worth reading:   http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/
  
 now, where is everyone picking up ecc31 (not with ufo getter)?


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> Raven, please wait for the next batch, if you don't mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes Raven please leave the Fivre 6N7G for @geetarman49 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These are genuine ECC31:-
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC31-NR73-CV1285-NOS-MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-LC10-/311469889523?hash=item48850d57f3:g:sksAAOSw~bFWKLkc
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC31-CV1285-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-M13-/391216090971?hash=item5b164bcf5b:g:EGgAAOxyoA1ROM3m
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MP-of-MULLARD-NR73-CV1285-ECC31-6N7-Tube-NOS-NIB-Square-Getter-229-/291475747843?hash=item43dd4ef403:g:6JoAAOSwZd1VZG53
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-ECC31-VINTAGE-BRITISH-OLD-STOCK-AVO-TESTED-BOXED-VINTAGE-VALVE-TUBE-/181937183735?hash=item2a5c4d1bf7:g:nfMAAOSwuTxV~4Q6
  
 Some very pricey...be patient. A reasonable price is approximately $100 each.
  
@geetarman49 did you order Elise too?
  
 All my ECC31 have bottom rectangular pan getters. NR73, CV1285, ECC31 are the wordings to look out for.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> If you have Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080, then you don't need GE 6AS7GA. They're inferior to the Chatham and Mullard. Sorry if this upset fans of GE 6AS7GA but this is my opinion. Don't loose sleep over it like @Lorspeaker use to say.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm this means my power department is complete  Don't need to spend money on tubes that I will not use, every dollar counts  Also, a must have power tube is 5998, what do you say about it?
  
 Means Mazda will also be a Joy Bringer? As both are French tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What adapters do I use with Mazda? I will go with the Mazda hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL  I love all of them  They're the performance cars, who wouldn't want them all?
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> If I were you, I'll buy them all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> Raven, please wait for the next batch, if you don't mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL you got it man, I tried to mess up with UT on his pursuit of Philips Miniwatt and he told me he had Bank of Australia funding him so I backed out haha


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hmm this means my power department is complete  Don't need to spend money on tubes that I will not use, every dollar counts  Also, a must have power tube is 5998, what do you say about it?
> 
> Means Mazda will also be a Joy Bringer? As both are French tubes
> 
> ...


 
 I like the 5998. I use it interchangeably with Chatham 6as7g. GEC6as7g and WE 421A would be nice too but those are crazy prices and I ain't that crazy.
 If you can find Mazda 6n7g but they are hard to find now. All 6n7g and ecc31 use the same adapter - ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter. Only 6a6 uses a different adapter - 6a6 to 6sn7 adapter.
  


lord raven said:


> LOL you got it man, I tried to mess up with UT on his pursuit of Philips Miniwatt and he told me he had Bank of Australia funding him so I backed out haha


 
 So it was you who made me pay more for my Lamborghini !!!


----------



## geetarman49

thnx for the links, UT ... altho i did see those earlier.
  
 i have not yet ordered elise ... decided to see whether or not i could snag a min. complement of the 'necessary' tubes. once i accomplish that, then i wait for my account to 'buffer up' till sufficient for elise purchase ... likely much after christmas & hopefully elise won't jump up in price as much as some of these toobs.


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> thnx for the links, UT ... altho i did see those earlier.
> 
> i have not yet ordered elise ... decided to see whether or not i could snag a min. complement of the 'necessary' tubes. once i accomplish that, then i wait for my account to 'buffer up' till sufficient for elise purchase ... likely much after christmas & hopefully elise won't jump up in price as much as some of these toobs.


 
 I'd order the Elise now, as there's currently about a 2 month delivery time..


----------



## UntilThen

This is the ECC31 - Aston Martin DB10


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> thnx for the links, UT ... altho i did see those earlier.
> 
> i have not yet ordered elise ... decided to see whether or not i could snag a min. complement of the 'necessary' tubes. once i accomplish that, then i wait for my account to 'buffer up' till sufficient for elise purchase ... likely much after christmas & hopefully elise won't jump up in price as much as some of these toobs.


 
 Understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you just want to buy one set of tubes, buy these:-
  
 Chatham 6AS7G power tubes
 Any pair of Bugatti, Renault, Ferrari, Lamborghini or Aston Martin. drivers... and drive on the autobahn in Germany.


----------



## UntilThen

This is the 2031 aka FDD20 / ECC31


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> I like the 5998. I use it interchangeably with Chatham 6as7g. GEC6as7g and WE 421A would be nice too but those are crazy prices and I ain't that crazy.
> If you can find Mazda 6n7g but they are hard to find now. All 6n7g and ecc31 use the same adapter - ecc31 to 6sn7 adapter. Only 6a6 uses a different adapter - 6a6 to 6sn7 adapter.
> 
> So it was you who made me pay more for my Lamborghini !!!


 

 i agree with assessment of chatham and gec 6as7g... unfortunately, i only have singles of each & unless i get very lucky, it seems i will be stuck with just singles.
 but let's not forget about the rca version.  the early ones ('40s, '50s, '60s) are really quite good, are readily available and cheap ... as far as tube prices go.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> i agree with assessment of chatham and gec 6as7g... unfortunately, i only have singles of each & unless i get very lucky, it seems i will be stuck with just singles.
> but let's not forget about the rca version.  the early ones ('40s, '50s, '60s) are really quite good, are readily available and cheap ... as far as tube prices go.


 

 There is nothing to stop you from using one Chatham and one GEC 6AS7G. Might turn out good. !!!
  
 I have those early RCA 6AS7G. Ok but not spectacular. Fact is most 6AS7G sounds good but it's relative once you start comparing. Point of diminishing return I'd say. Those at the higher scale are just so expensive now.
  
 What is interesting with Elise is that when drivers and powers are matched, she will give spectacular results. Take for instance if you pair C3G with 5998, that is one combo that rocks.


----------



## UntilThen

My Fivre 6N7G tubes are a bit noisy. Not hum but like electrical buzzing sound. I hope with burn in they go away as I really like the sound.


----------



## Suuup

One of my 5998 powers makes a very high crackling / popping noise sometimes. It's mostly when warming up, but happens sometimes after hours of use. Any ideas?


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> There is nothing to stop you from using one Chatham and one GEC 6AS7G. Might turn out good. !!!
> 
> I have those early RCA 6AS7G. Ok but not spectacular. Fact is most 6AS7G sounds good but it's relative once you start comparing. Point of diminishing return I'd say. Those at the higher scale are just so expensive now.
> 
> What is interesting with Elise is that when drivers and powers are matched, she will give spectacular results. Take for instance if you pair C3G with 5998, that is one combo that rocks.


 

 i'll try that combo once elise is in the house.
  
 sure, ferrari, lambo, porsche gt4 ... what's not to like?  but the fact is, most of us would be just as happy to drive a ford focus every day than to be stuffed with a $3k maintenance fee every month (okay, that's just a guess on my part ... i have no idea what the current monthly service fee for your avg prancing horse is, but i'm quite sure it's more than $2k).  just my stupid way of saying that if all we do is to preach the gospel of gec and we as the almighty, then it's more than likely to drive people away rather than bring them to elise.
  
 hmmmm, siemens c3g(s) i have ... 5998?  which ones?  tung-sol?  are there any nos left?  these are also getting to be as common as hen's teeth.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> One of my 5998 powers makes a very high crackling / popping noise sometimes. It's mostly when warming up, but happens sometimes after hours of use. Any ideas?


 

 Your 5998 seems very new. Almost as new as my new pair.
  
 If that's the case, I think there's nothing to worry about. You just need to put more hours into it. Just let it roll. Don't change tubes too often too quickly. They need to settle down.
  
 If this continues after 100 hours I'd be concerned.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Your 5998 seems very new. Almost as new as my new pair.
> 
> If that's the case, I think there's nothing to worry about. You just need to put more hours into it. Just let it roll. Don't change tubes too often too quickly. They need to settle down.
> 
> If this continues after 100 hours I'd be concerned.


 
 I'm atleast halfway to the 100, which is what concerns me. I actually fear for my headphones. The noise is VERY loud sometimes.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> i'll try that combo once elise is in the house.
> 
> sure, ferrari, lambo, porsche gt4 ... what's not to like?  but the fact is, most of us would be just as happy to drive a ford focus every day than to be stuffed with a $3k maintenance fee every month (okay, that's just a guess on my part ... i have no idea what the current monthly service fee for your avg prancing horse is, but i'm quite sure it's more than $2k).  just my stupid way of saying that if all we do is to preach the gospel of gec and we as the almighty, then it's more than likely to drive people away rather than bring them to elise.
> 
> hmmmm, siemens c3g(s) i have ... 5998?  which ones?  tung-sol?  are there any nos left?  these are also getting to be as common as hen's teeth.


 

 GEC 6AS7G price will be high regardless of whether we praise it here or not. There are many more active forums where those are highly regarded. It was in the Crack forum where the reviewer coin it the holy grail. Notice I don't even own a pair nor am I in a hurry. Quite content with what I have.
  
 5998 again depends on individuals. Highly regarded in the Crack forum. I like it. Whether it's Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 2399, they are the same. Some say that the early 50s version sound better than the 60s version. I have both and they sound the same to me. I got mine NOS from Vietnam, brand new. Some history behind it. The problem with 5998 is there are some bad ones floating around, being resold. So if you buy a pair, test it well within the returns period. I have one that burn up before my eyes when used on the DV336se. It's clearly a defective tube. Got my refund though. Price for 5998 remains high.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm atleast halfway to the 100, which is what concerns me. I actually fear for my headphones. The noise is VERY loud sometimes.


 

 Ok if I were you I'd return it. VERY loud is unacceptable after 50 hours. Use the money to buy another pair of 5998 or other power tubes.
  
 My new 5998 are dead silent.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> One of my 5998 powers makes a very high crackling / popping noise sometimes. It's mostly when warming up, but happens sometimes after hours of use. Any ideas?


 

 is your amp completely quiet if you replace said tube with a different one?
  
 if this happens to be a brand new tube, then see whether or not it 'grows' out of this noisy state.  otoh, if you've already put a couple of hundred hours on this tube and it's becoming noisy, then i'm afraid the situation is likely to get worse ... maybe slow leakage or short developing.
  
 if the same issue develops on that channel even after replacing the tube with a brand new one, then the culprit is likely to be within the amp.
  
 do you have access to a good tube tester?
  
 <edit> i see UT has beat me ... yeah, the tube is shot ... get yer $ back.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a pair of Tung Sol 7236 (rebranded IBM) ..these are similar to the 5998 but not quite. In fact it's quite easily distinguishable in sound but at last than half the price of 5998, they are quite an interesting tube. I do like it. I bought it for AUD$100 a pair.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Me thinks that u forgot the picture of the Elise......
  
  




  
 And here is a picture of the interior:
  




  
 Maybe this McLaren should represent the ECC31?
  




 And finally, a representative from Sweden:
  




  
 The Koenigsegg 6BL7 lol.....


----------



## UntilThen

LOL Mordy I really like you. You surprise me all the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Of course how could I forget Elise. Those are very nice cars haha.
  
 Dang that Lotus Elise is so beautiful.
  
 H1 will wake up thinking he has stumbled into a performance car forum LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

@geetarman49  that's the setup I have on the Elise now...C3G with 5998. So good...


----------



## UntilThen

Since @geetarman49 talks about Ford Focus...which is a nice car. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well here's a Ford Focus setup. RCA 6N7GT - $40/pair with IBM 7236 - $72/pair (power tube could have been GE 6AS7G - $22/pair, RCA 6AS7G or Mullard 6080).
  
 What's my verdict?
  
 Typical of 6N7 sound, this combo is warm and lush with expanded soundstage and a forward midrange presence. Treble is smooth and extends high. Bass is solid and present in abundance and quality. RCA 6N7GT has very little lacking compared to it's brother 6N7G. This pair that I bought from Thailand is NOS with original box. 
  
 I pause to think how lucky we are. Elise sounded so good with so many combinations. Lukasz, thank you. Please thank your dad, Henryk for a masterpiece tube amp and a Ford Focus price. Especially thank him that my unit is so well made that it's hum free and noise free. It's perfect, except for that almost invisible white dot on the volume knob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*WOW I swap the IBM 7236 for Mullard 6080 and what a difference !!! Sweeter and more definition.*
  

  
 This one, not the one above. Get a pair of Mullard 6080/CV2984. They are sweeter than honey. Wow this combination is so good I haven't change my tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

suuup said:


> One of my 5998 powers makes a very high crackling / popping noise sometimes. It's mostly when warming up, but happens sometimes after hours of use. Any ideas?


 
 When you use these tubes , it is a good idea to let them warm up for about 10 minutes before plugging your headphones in to your amp.
  
 This is normal for this tube........after the tube gets burned in more the popping will pretty much stop after the warm up.....mine popped the first couple of times i used them a, even after 1/2 an hour.....now they have settled in nicely.
  
 I am not using the Elise, but a Glenn OTL, that also runs the 5998 much harder than the Elise, so I am guessing yours should settle down soon.....great sounding tubes , by the way.


----------



## Suuup

whirlwind said:


> When you use these tubes , it is a good idea to let them warm up for about 10 minutes before plugging your headphones in to your amp.
> 
> This is normal for this tube........after the tube gets burned in more the popping will pretty much stop after the warm up.....mine popped the first couple of times i used them a, even after 1/2 an hour.....now they have settled in nicely.
> 
> I am not using the Elise, but a Glenn OTL, that also runs the 5998 much harder than the Elise, so I am guessing yours should settle down soon.....great sounding tubes , by the way.



Agree, but this is after 50 hours of burn in. 

I contacted the seller yesterday, and he said that he'd try and find a new 5998 tube and send it for free. I can't believe Ebaysellers, they all seem so friendly and trying to really please their customers. I really like the security when buying off of Ebay!


----------



## whirlwind

Don't give up on it too early...sometimes tubes can take a while to settle in.....I thought the same about mine.


----------



## Suuup

whirlwind said:


> Don't give up on it too early...sometimes tubes can take a while to settle in.....I thought the same about mine.



Don't get me wrong, I really like the tubes! I've been using them almost exclusively since I got them. The popping/crackling has gotten worse lately though, which makes me fear for my T1's


----------



## whirlwind

suuup said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Don't give up on it too early...sometimes tubes can take a while to settle in.....I thought the same about mine.
> ...


 
 Yeah, I hear you on that....don't want to blow those up.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> @geetarman49  that's the setup I have on the Elise now...C3G with 5998. So good...
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Since @geetarman49 talks about Ford Focus...which is a nice car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 sorry, for delayed response, UT (hockey & snl with adele last nite along with dr who) very nice setup, btw  --- i'd show you mine but it's a bit of a mess & mostly unconnected ... waiting for cables.
  
 okay, a pr of mullard 6080s from langrex it is then.  maybe i'll pick up his ecc31 also, altho i'm fairly certain that's a mid-70s version.
  
 anyone here bidding on those cdn ts 5998s from eskimofridge on the 'bay?  if so, i won't bid.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> sorry, for delayed response, UT (hockey & snl with adele last nite along with dr who) very nice setup, btw  --- i'd show you mine but it's a bit of a mess & mostly unconnected ... waiting for cables.
> 
> okay, a pr of mullard 6080s from langrex it is then.  maybe i'll pick up his ecc31 also, altho i'm fairly certain that's a mid-70s version.
> 
> anyone here bidding on those cdn ts 5998s from eskimofridge on the 'bay?  if so, i won't bid.


 

 You reminded me to pick up a CD of Adele's latest album. I'm a fan. She's an incredible singer. Such voice. No wonder that 'Hello' Youtube video has almost 450 million hits.
  
 A pair of Mullard 6080 from Langrex is a superb choice. The ECC31 looks good to me.
  
 Those 5998 are very nice condition tubes. It's interesting they mention that the green lettering ones have both top and bottom getters. I didn't even noticed until I just had a look at mine. They claim the green ones are rare. As I said I couldn't hear difference between the white and green ones. You should be fine with either.
  
 It's best to bid quietly so as not to draw undue attention from competitions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is these Bendix 6080WB that has me drooling. Very expensive but these are supposed to be very good. At $300 a pair, I'll pass. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-BENDIX-RED-BANK-6080WB-6080-5998-421A-CARBON-PLATES-VINTAGE-1960S-USA-/301805596010?hash=item464503ed6a:g:HSMAAOSwf-VWUZMp


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> sorry, for delayed response, UT (hockey & snl with adele last nite along with dr who) very nice setup, btw  --- i'd show you mine but it's a bit of a mess & mostly unconnected ... waiting for cables.
> 
> okay, a pr of mullard 6080s from langrex it is then.  maybe i'll pick up his ecc31 also, altho i'm fairly certain that's a mid-70s version.
> 
> anyone here bidding on those cdn ts 5998s from eskimofridge on the 'bay?  if so, i won't bid.




I'm, so please don't mess up my tubes  I lost one tube in mail.


----------



## Suuup

Well, no more 5998 for me until my replacement arrives. Just plugged in my headphones after leaving the tubes to heat up for 2 hours. Immediately heard a LOUD crackle in the left cup and was terror-stricken. I thought for sure my headphones were gone. I quickly put on some music, and there was not music at all on the left channel. Pulled the plug out, and connected it directly into my DAC instead. Sound. On both channels. Relief. There seems to be a weird noise on the left channel though, I'm not sure what's the cause, though it might just be bad quality from the random Youtube video.


----------



## nephilim

*@Suuup* I leave my headphones connected all the time after once I heard a very loud crackle while plugging in. Listened carefully during warm-up and when switching off - no weird sounds at all. 
  
  
*@UntilThen* I've been searching for graphite 6080WB but $300 means $370 incl. taxes... I will pass. Interestingly one of the pair is the slotted version. Funny he does not mention this as iirc those go for even higher prices.


----------



## UntilThen

$300 is indeed a killer price. Bendix 6080WB are very rare though and this is a new pair. I'm drooling like a St. Bernard. 
  
 My most expensive pair of tubes are these at $234 but they are worth every penny. I am using it sparingly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It came brand new. You can tell just looking at the tubes. Even the letterings are gleaming green.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Well, no more 5998 for me until my replacement arrives. Just plugged in my headphones after leaving the tubes to heat up for 2 hours. Immediately heard a LOUD crackle in the left cup and was terror-stricken. I thought for sure my headphones were gone. I quickly put on some music, and there was not music at all on the left channel. Pulled the plug out, and connected it directly into my DAC instead. Sound. On both channels. Relief. There seems to be a weird noise on the left channel though, I'm not sure what's the cause, though it might just be bad quality from the random Youtube video.


 
 Do you think dropping your T1 could have cause some damage? Test it on the DAC/AMP with some quality recording.
  
 I always power up without my headphone plug in and remove it before powering off. I have pop sound before, powering on and off with the headphone plug in. Lately I left my headphone in and there's no more pop. Who knows with these very old tubes. Some are in the 40s. It's a marvel they still work after all these years.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> You reminded me to pick up a CD of Adele's latest album. I'm a fan. She's an incredible singer. Such voice. No wonder that 'Hello' Youtube video has almost 450 million hits.
> 
> A pair of Mullard 6080 from Langrex is a superb choice. The ECC31 looks good to me.
> 
> ...


 
 great live performance on snl --- good to hear that you don't hear a diff between grn & wht versions --- altho wht is likely to be decade earlier.
 i happen to have one of those bendix (or is it 2?) ... i think it's just a single somewhere in my pile o' glass --- slotted plates version, no less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  


lord raven said:


> I'm, so please don't mess up my tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 done! i'm abstaining --- good luck!
  


suuup said:


> Well, no more 5998 for me until my replacement arrives. Just plugged in my headphones after leaving the tubes to heat up for 2 hours. Immediately heard a LOUD crackle in the left cup and was terror-stricken. I thought for sure my headphones were gone. I quickly put on some music, and there was not music at all on the left channel. Pulled the plug out, and connected it directly into my DAC instead. Sound. On both channels. Relief. There seems to be a weird noise on the left channel though, I'm not sure what's the cause, though it might just be bad quality from the random Youtube video.


 
 altho t1 has very robust driver (has to since magnetic field is exceptionally strong), don't forget that the voice coil uses very fine wiring. an exceptionally strong dc pulse can & will damage this wiring ... maybe not at first, but repeated pulses like that will degrade the wire & like kingwa (audio-gd) says ... 'will shatter your gears'
  


nephilim said:


> *@Suuup* I leave my headphones connected all the time after once I heard a very loud crackle while plugging in. Listened carefully during warm-up and when switching off - no weird sounds at all.
> 
> 
> *@UntilThen* I've been searching for graphite 6080WB but $300 means $370 incl. taxes... I will pass. Interestingly one of the pair is the slotted version. Funny he does not mention this as iirc those go for even higher prices.


 
  
 very good eye, UT ... i missed seeing that slotted version ... highly desirable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.   but i still prefer gec 6as7g round base.


----------



## Lord Raven

OMG those are some sexy looking tubes, I want them now 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> $300 is indeed a killer price. Bendix 6080WB are very rare though and this is a new pair. I'm drooling like a St. Bernard.
> 
> My most expensive pair of tubes are these at $234 but they are worth every penny. I am using it sparingly.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks bro, I have found that most of my competition comes from Elise forum LOL When I lose something on bidding, the tubes show up here haha I don't really like to know who won but this is a small world/forum 
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> done! i'm abstaining --- good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

Geetarman, so what tube amp do you have since you have some very lovely tubes in your possession? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't tempt me anymore with those slotted Bendix. I'll hunt for a nice pair of GEC 6AS7G round base at @hypnos1 price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is my other 5998. One of them has died since (left one). Saw a white flash of light go up the filament and then dead. After 1 hour of usage !!! Got my refund though. Thanks to eBay.
  
 Picture taken before it died.

  
 The aftermath. All the chrome burn up.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> One ECC31 and 3 FDD20 is all you need. *2031 is the best combo IMO. I'm listening to it right now. It is nothing short of breathtaking.*
> 
> If you only have stock Svetlana power tubes, you should try and get Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080 or GE 6AS7GA from Parts Express. If you really have to use the Svetlana 6H13C, then that's fine till you get any of those power tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> This is the ECC31 - Aston Martin DB10


 
  
 Don'y forget the Rolls Royce and Bentley, UT!...*24K gold, *of course!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> LOL Mordy I really like you. You surprise me all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW guys...now you've *really* got me drooling, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...not that I've much 'drool' left, now my 'gold-enhanced' FDD20 has a good few more hours on her, paired with an equally gold-spoilt ECC31!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...'breathtaking' is spot on, UT...just had to take another pic of my *'Ecstasybringer'*...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 ps.  Is the Elise versatile, or what, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....ENJOY!!!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Geetarman, so what tube amp do you have since you have some very lovely tubes in your possession?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 yeah, right ... at hypnos1 price ... that's when we start to see pigs fly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 what a shame on that 5998 ... but what was that brown crud around the base-glass?  glue?  looks like gas-leakage was the culprit.
  
 okay, i'll show you pix of my stack ... but tube components are currently disconnected ... awaiting cables from amazon ... <edit>looks like they're going to stiff me on the cables (not until next year ...LOL).
  

  
 here's a closer view
 (image missing)
  
 the space on the left will be occupied by elise in the near future.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 why is your ECC31 different. It has a brown base and a different mica. Is that a special tube? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Did you get the elusive Fivre 6N7G brown base?


----------



## UntilThen

@geetarman49  what happened to your post? I can't see anything.


----------



## geetarman49

yeah, i know ... i can't see anything either ... i must have garbled it up somehow .. i'll try again.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Geetarman, so what tube amp do you have since you have some very lovely tubes in your possession?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yeah, right ... at hypnos1 price ... that's when we start to see pigs fly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 what a shame on that 5998 ... but what was that brown crud around the base-glass?  glue?  looks like gas-leakage was the culprit.

 okay, i'll show you pix of my stack ... but tube components are currently disconnected ... awaiting cables from amazon ... <edit>looks like they're going to stiff me on the cables (not until next year ...LOL).
  

  
 here's a closer view

 the space on the left will be occupied by elise in the near future.
 -- sorry about image quality.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> what a shame on that 5998 ... but what was that brown crud around the base-glass?  glue?  looks like gas-leakage was the culprit.
> 
> okay, i'll show you pix of my stack ... but tube components are currently disconnected ... awaiting cables from amazon ... <edit>looks like they're going to stiff me on the cables (not until next year ...LOL).


 
 Yes apparently that 5998 must have been repaired with glue. Messy job. When I first received it, I have a bad feeling.
  
 That's a rack full of gear. You have Stax amp. Did you have Stax HP? That Antique Sound Lab tube amp looks interesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What are the other gear. Can't really see. Give us a run down. Always keen to see what others have.
  
 Oh yeah I think I see Stax headphone on the top. What model?


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> ps.  Is the Elise versatile, or what, lol?! :bigsmile_face: ....ENJOY!!!





Looking good H1...!!!

my fave is the 2x Philips Miniwatt etched FDD20's and the 5998's as powers:



If you had told me before I bought the Elise that I would prefer 1943 12v drivers that were never intended to be run in the Elise...

I wouldn't have believed you!!! These are *IT*... 

*Ecstacybringers'* indeed 

Cheers to all...!!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> If you had told me before I bought the Elise that I would prefer 1943 12v drivers that were never intended to be run in the Elise...
> 
> I wouldn't have believed you!!! These are *IT*...
> 
> *Ecstacybringers'* indeed


 
 JV, your Elise is blue colour now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Very nice picture. I can only imagine the sound. I'll be doing the same when my stuff arrives. Provided I get it going and not stuff it up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, your Elise is blue colour now. :bigsmile_face:   Very nice picture. I can only imagine the sound. I'll be doing the same when my stuff arrives. Provided I get it going and not stuff it up.




I am looking forward to Mrs Xu Ling's new FDD20->6SN7 adapters. And the "already grounded" power supply. 

Think it will makes things look a lot neater, around ye olde tube amp...

Can't believe how incredibly great this combo sounds!!

We are the LUCKY ones!


----------



## UntilThen

Which grounded power supply are you getting. Please link. Wow your volume is at 1 o'clock. Do you have to put it that high? Mine is sitting at 9 o'clock. No more than 10.
  
 Anyway, I'll show off my 2031 too as it is being run in now. With Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guess what's inside? I started smoking


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 why is your ECC31 different. It has a brown base and a different mica. Is that a special tube?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure does look special, doesn't it UT?...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...this was one of my very first ECC31s - another lucky unrecognised rebrand at a bargain price..."QTL"...never heard of it, lol!.But a pure Mullard (apparently slightly later, and with the "better quality" brown base - as per James at Langrex over here...and _they_ should know, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So, like my "Haltron" GEC/ Osram A1834, gold nuggets _are _out there...keep your eyes peeled!!!
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Looking good H1...!!!
> 
> my fave is the 2x Philips Miniwatt etched FDD20's and the 5998's as powers:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Didn't believe it myself JV...it was a pure gamble...(but something just seemed to whisper in my ear : *do it!!!*...and the rest is history, lol  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 But hey, what's that 2pm volume setting, mon ami? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...10 o'clock blasts my ears through the T1s!!...
  
 Ah well, time for my bed....goodnight all....


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Guess what's inside? I started smoking


 
 Raven, those looks like authentic Cuban cigars. Nice with original wrappers.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Raven, those looks like authentic Cuban cigars. Nice with original wrappers.


 
 Thanks Matt  Let's smoke together once I am there hehe


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Thanks Matt  Let's smoke together once I am there hehe


 

 I don't smoke. I'm Mr. Healthy and music loving Head-Fier. I hardly even drink. Wouldn't take too much to get me drunk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Alright you can have a listen to my Lamborghini when you're here. Or would you prefer the Bugatti, Renault or Ferrari? Perhaps Ford Focus? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh the *6N23P Russian Rocket logo 1975 year* !! This...


----------



## UntilThen

@MIKELAP  where have you been buddy !!! I miss your jokes. !!!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I don't smoke. I'm Mr. Healthy and music loving Head-Fier. I hardly even drink. Wouldn't take too much to get me drunk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL I am interested in almost everything, I am all stock, it wouldn't take a lot to blow my mind


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Yes apparently that 5998 must have been repaired with glue. Messy job. When I first received it, I have a bad feeling.
> 
> That's a rack full of gear. You have Stax amp. Did you have Stax HP? That Antique Sound Lab tube amp looks interesting.
> 
> ...


 

 top shelf - sr sigma supported by cds and matrix cube
 next shelf - modded pioneer dv-563a (dvd-a, sacd player), akg k7xx
 next shelf -  nyrius wireless receiver for tv audio, grace m920
 bottom shelf - modded somic efi 82mt , modded asl headphone pre dt, modded little bear p8, stax srm-007ta, srm-727a
 not shown - sr-407 w507 pads and a few other phones.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> top shelf - sr sigma supported by cds and matrix cube
> next shelf - modded pioneer dv-563a dvd-a, sacd player, akg k7xx
> next shelf -  nyrius wireless receiver, grace m920
> bottom shelf - modded somic efi 82mt , modded asl headphone pre dt, modded little bear p8, stax srm-007ta, srm-727a
> not shown - sr-407 w507 pads and a few other phones.


 

 Tasty gear...and a m920. Nice. ! Stax 007 as well. Still have room for Elise?   Tube amp are a different experience. Elise is incredibly good. You can tell I'm sold on tube amp in particular Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

Interesting read on the break in theory


----------



## mordy

Hmmm UT,
  
 A Specialized S-Works McLaren aluminum bike? $20.000?
  
 Nobody ain't gonna ride that bike - the  right pedal is missing LOL.
  
 Is the picture taken by Circular Quay?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hmmm UT,
> 
> A Specialized S-Works McLaren aluminum bike? $20.000?
> 
> ...


 

 Mark Cavendish rides that. It's not mine lol and it's not Circular Quay. I ride a Specialised Roubaix. Haven't got on the bike since Elise came. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I love cycling and watching Tour De France but I'm a casual rider. I just imagine I can go fast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Try going downhill at 55kph and hope you don't hit a big stone or a pothole.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BBtOpJYFY
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfkyMCDYhU
  
 Coming soon - Sylvania 6BL7GT vs Mazda 6N7G.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Tasty gear...and a m920. Nice. ! Stax 007 as well. Still have room for Elise?   Tube amp are a different experience. Elise is incredibly good. You can tell I'm sold on tube amp in particular Elise.


 
 thnx UT; the elise will replace the asl & as nice as the grace is, i still prefer toob amps.  currently, i use one of the grace inputs for the nyrius receiver for listening to tv via the k7xx late at nite.
  
 previously (before stax), grace outputs went to the asl and little bear.  when all is said and done, i'll be adding usb input from notebook to the grace and single-ended output from grace to stax 727 and the balanced output to the stax 007.  i'll split the single-ended output from the grace to also drive the elise (but not simultaneously).


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Which grounded power supply are you getting. Please link. Wow your volume is at 1 o'clock. Do you have to put it that high? Mine is sitting at 9 o'clock. No more than 10.
> 
> Anyway, I'll show off my 2031 too as it is being run in now. With Chatham 6AS7G. :bigsmile_face:




Yes mine usually runs between 11:00 and 1:00 or 1:30

Here is the grounded 12v supply:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271974572553

So cheap, too


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BBtOpJYFY
> 
> ...


 
 I have seen these videos before, absolute favorite cars of mine


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BBtOpJYFY
> 
> ...


 

 That Koenigsegg Agera R is crazy fast. Ok you drive that beast and I'll get on the Bugatti Veyron.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> thnx UT; the elise will replace the asl & as nice as the grace is, i still prefer toob amps.  currently, i use one of the grace inputs for the nyrius receiver for listening to tv via the k7xx late at nite.
> 
> previously (before stax), grace outputs went to the asl and little bear.  when all is said and done, i'll be adding usb input from notebook to the grace and single-ended output from grace to stax 727 and the balanced output to the stax 007.  i'll split the single-ended output from the grace to also drive the elise (but not simultaneously).


 
 Very nice. Will wait for your impression of Elise compared to your other gear when she lands in that rack.
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Yes mine usually runs between 11:00 and 1:00 or 1:30
> 
> Here is the grounded 12v supply:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks JV. 12v 6A is ok to drive 1 or 2 FDD20 right? Do I need the voltage converter? I have the 12v 3A now but without the ground pin.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I don't smoke. I'm Mr. Healthy and music loving Head-Fier. I hardly even drink. Wouldn't take too much to get me drunk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's a Specialized Venge - one that McLaren helped design. Certainly a very pretty, and light, bike! The frame weighs less than 1 kg!! That is insane.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Very nice. Will wait for your impression of Elise compared to your other gear when she lands in that rack.
> 
> Thanks JV. 12v 6A is ok to drive 1 or 2 FDD20 right? Do I need the voltage converter? I have the 12v 3A now but without the ground pin.




Should be fine to drive 2 FDD20, I drive two now with less than 1 amp.

Voltage regulator would be handy to set to 6.3v to drive 6BL7 but not needed with FDD20.


----------



## UntilThen

Yeehaa  I ordered these
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LCD-AC-Power-Supply-Adapter-DC-12-Volt-6-Amp-12V-6A-with-round-tip-5-5mm-2-5mm-/221815437071?hash=item33a53af70f:g:h~8AAOSwgQ9VlKrU&rmvSB=true
  
 The 12v 6A AC adapter above is Aussie plug...don't follow me unless you're Aussie.


----------



## UntilThen

Today's rock and roll or whatever you call this... try it


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes mine usually runs between 11:00 and 1:00 or 1:30
> 
> Here is the grounded 12v supply:
> 
> ...


 

 $40! for std shipping to canada


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> $40! for std shipping to canada


 

 Don't they sell those 12V AC adapter in Canada? Mine cost AUD$20 free delivery from Australia.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Don't they sell those 12V AC adapter in Canada? Mine cost AUD$20 free delivery from Australia.


 

 i'm sure an equivalent can be found on ncix or amazon.ca, but it won't be $8


----------



## hpamdr

*2geetarman49*
  
 If it is just to heat 2 FDD20 2A is more than enough ! And guess what it is below 8 $(CAN) on amazon.ca  
 You can also use a simple shielded toroidal transformer as it is only used for heating....


----------



## Lord Raven

Lost in transaction :/


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Guess what's inside? I started smoking


 
  
 So glad you managed to get these at least LR, after all the bad luck you've been having!...Brand spanking new; etched 'Philips MiniWatt'; still in original label-sealed wrappers...and listed as _used_...and for a ridiculously cheap price - no wonder he hasn't any left, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 ps.  Remember to clean those brass 'paddle' contacts, either with a small sharp knife or emery paper - get 'em nice and shiny! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and *ENJOY!!!*...


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> Today's rock and roll or whatever you call this... try it




 Great album, I have listened to it a few times , since I have gotten it, last thursday.


----------



## Lord Raven

HAHA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just bought them, they're still not shipped by the seller, this is his picture not mine. I just buy things to lose them in the mail LOL
  
 This is listed as used but when I asked the seller, he said these are brand new 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have a question, 4 x Chatham 6AS7G are inbound, I think I will get them today as the postman mobile number was sent to me in a text message and now I am in touch with him LOL
  
 Since I don't have a pair of headphones, can I  plug my 16 Ohms IEMs into Elise to test those 4 power tubes?  I can't wait hehe 
  
 Chatham's will be my first tubes that I will roll and unable to listen to until Christmas, God willing!!!
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> So glad you managed to get these at least LR, after all the bad luck you've been having!...Brand spanking new; etched 'Philips MiniWatt'; still in original label-sealed wrappers...and listed as _used_...and for a ridiculously cheap price - no wonder he hasn't any left, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hpamdr

> Since I don't have a pair of headphones, can I  plug my 16 Ohms IEMs into Elise to test those 4 power tubes?  I can't wait hehe


 
  
 Hey L-R, you can plug whatever cans you want on the Elise... but a 2x6AS7G OTL amplifier is not the best match for low impedance iems and what you will ear will be different to the result you can get with 300-600 Ohms headphones.
 With plugged iems, It can help you to know if tubes hum a lot or not and see how RFI can interfere. But even if you detect some background noise this can almost disappear or be less invasive with "better" headphone. 
 You will also be able to listen some music but not sure if you will enjoy it too much.


----------



## Lord Raven

hpamdr said:


> Hey L-R, you can plug whatever cans you want on the Elise... but a 2x6AS7G OTL amplifier is not the best match for low impedance iems and what you will ear will be different to the result you can get with 300-600 Ohms headphones.
> With plugged iems, It can help you to know if tubes hum a lot or not and see how RFI can interfere. But even if you detect some background noise this can almost disappear or be less invasive with "better" headphone.
> You will also be able to listen some music but not sure if you will enjoy it too much.


 
 Thanks HP, I just wanted to make sure that tubes arrived in good shape. If I don't test them then I might not be able to raise a flag on eBay for a return or refund.


----------



## meraias

any comparisons with some well known tube amps out there?


----------



## Lord Raven

My christmas tree lights are here 
  
 First tube shipment ever, very well packaged, tubes are in perfect shape, they test strong, I hope they will serve me for a long time, wish me luck guys.
  
 They all have gold rod posts (copper blend LOL) on both sides hehe And they have 751 written on their bases, what does that mean? 7th week of 1951? LOL Just guessing...
  
 Cheers!
  

  
 Edit: I am not sure if they are used or not, but they all test 62/62 and 36 is good. I am bad with reading the test results either  Need some help here too!!


----------



## MIKELAP

untilthen said:


> @MIKELAP  where have you been buddy !!! I miss your jokes. !!!


 
 Ive simply unsuscribed from this thread since i dont have an Elise no sense in posting here anymore . take it easy Michel .


----------



## Lord Raven

mikelap said:


> Ive simply unsuscribed from this thread since i dont have an Elise no sense in posting here anymore . take it easy Michel .


 
 This thread is more of a tube rolling thread now, anyone can participate


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> If it is just to heat 2 FDD20 2A is more than enough ! And guess what it is below 8 $(CAN) on amazon.ca
> You can also use a simple shielded toroidal transformer as it is only used for heating....




Hello hpamdr...

Agree, I am successfully heating 2x FDD20 with 3/4 of one 1 amp, but it's harder to find power supplies that use the 3 prong grounded plug so that you don't have to run a third wire out to ground. 

The FDD20 HUMS like mad unless the 12v supply is grounded, we run a separate the ground out to the Elise chassis (that is nicely grounded, in most countries).

Also will use the 6 amp supply to heat 2x 6BL7 (after a voltage regulator) that draws 3 amps between them.



.


----------



## nephilim

Hmm, my amp is there for 1.5 weeks now and hasn't even entered testing. Elise is way too successful


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Hmm, my amp is there for 1.5 weeks now and hasn't even entered testing. Elise is way too successful




Hello neph...

Hope they get to it, soon...

.


----------



## Suuup

Just picked this up at the post office. It's an Aune S16. I've never _really_ listened to a good DAC before, but my mindset going into this was, that DAC's doesn't make _that_ big a difference. 
  
 I just fired up Mark Knopflers Wherever I Go. I've been running the Visseaux 6N7G and Mullard 6080 all day, and to be honest, I haven't really had that WAUW-feeling. That is until I plugged in this baby. I cannot quite put my finger to it, it's like the texture of the sound has changed.


----------



## Lord Raven

Congratulations sup, what are the capabilities of this DAC? I believe they do make a difference but since there are so many out there, it is so hard to choose one. And what were you playing your music from before? Laptop's DAC?
  
 I spent ages to decide for a DAC and went with a Geek Pulse SFi, single ended, femto clocked, with hand picked matched internals. I couldn't decide if Elise and the DAC has any sound difference at all, and that's when I decided to go tube rolling cause I am all stock at this time 
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> Just picked this up at the post office. It's an Aune S16. I've never _really_ listened to a good DAC before, but my mindset going into this was, that DAC's doesn't make _that_ big a difference.
> 
> I just fired up Mark Knopflers Wherever I Go. I've been running the Visseaux 6N7G and Mullard 6080 all day, and to be honest, I haven't really had that WAUW-feeling. That is until I plugged in this baby. I cannot quite put my finger to it, it's like the texture of the sound has changed.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Great album, I have listened to it a few times , since I have gotten it, last thursday.


 

 Ever since I was recommended Billy Gibbons Perfectamundo's album, I'm loving the lively music. Yes the whole album sounds good.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


>


 
 Previously I used an Asus Xonar U7. The Aune says 32 bit 384 DSD DAC on the front. That's pretty good, right?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ever since I was recommended Billy Gibbons Perfectamundo's album, I'm loving the lively music. Yes the whole album sounds good.




Didn't realize he was doing solo work...not with ZZ Top...

.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> My christmas tree lights are here
> 
> First tube shipment ever, very well packaged, tubes are in perfect shape, they test strong, I hope they will serve me for a long time, wish me luck guys.
> 
> ...


 

 Raven, those are very lovely Chatham 6AS7G. The letterings are so new. Really like new tubes. Yes those readings are good but what it matters most is when you pop it into Elise. Enjoy, I love those power tubes. Hope you get a good price for it.
  
 That's 51st week of 1957 I believe.


----------



## geetarman49

hpamdr said:


> *2geetarman49*
> 
> If it is just to heat 2 FDD20 2A is more than enough ! And guess what it is below 8 $(CAN) on amazon.ca
> You can also use a simple shielded toroidal transformer as it is only used for heating....


 

 haha ... good find, hpamdr.  looks like it can be done. thank you, but unfortunately for that particular unit, which is ungrounded by the way, the reviews are all over the place. i'll continue looking.


----------



## UntilThen

meraias said:


> any comparisons with some well known tube amps out there?


 

 Hi meraias,
  
 So far there are only comparisons of Elise with Crack with Speedball, Woo Audio WA6, Darkvoice 336se, Little Dot Mk4. The reviewers all said Elise is better, well way better. The review of Elise and Crack with Speedball is somewhere in this thread by Karl.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## geetarman49

hypnos1 said:


> ... ps.  Remember to clean those brass 'paddle' contacts, either with a small sharp knife or emery paper - get 'em nice and shiny!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 h1 --- i think for most tubes, this method is too harsh for the pin surface.  i would suggest using magic eraser followed by application of deoxit d5.  actually, d5 alone should be satisfactory for most of the tubes that we encounter.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> haha ... good find, hpamdr.  looks like it can be done. thank you, but unfortunately for that particular unit, which is ungrounded by the way, the reviews are all over the place. i'll continue looking.


 

 I use this with 3 pins. It hums and then I ground it with a separate wire and it still hums.

  
 So I switch to this, ground it and it's hum free.


 I suggest you find a grounded version (3 pins) that looks like the laptop version above and as JV suggested get a 12v 6A in preparation for 6BL7 tubes too. Mordy's Koe super car.


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> h1 --- i think for most tubes, this method is too harsh for the pin surface.  i would suggest using magic eraser followed by application of deoxit d5.  actually, d5 alone should be satisfactory for most of the tubes that we encounter.




FDD20 only contacts with the outer edges of the "paddles", to the socket. It does not have "pins" in the traditional sense. Use a disposable fingernail file to buff the brass edges.





.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> h1 --- i think for most tubes, this method is too harsh for the pin surface.  i would suggest using magic eraser followed by application of deoxit d5.  actually, d5 alone should be satisfactory for most of the tubes that we encounter.


 
 Deoxit is good. I use these 2. Red to clean and Gold to preserve the pins. Use both and you'll have clean and shiny pins. Can use these on FDD20 too. Works.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Just picked this up at the post office. It's an Aune S16. I've never _really_ listened to a good DAC before, but my mindset going into this was, that DAC's doesn't make _that_ big a difference.
> 
> I just fired up Mark Knopflers Wherever I Go. I've been running the Visseaux 6N7G and Mullard 6080 all day, and to be honest, I haven't really had that WAUW-feeling. That is until I plugged in this baby. I cannot quite put my finger to it, it's like the texture of the sound has changed.


 
 DAC will make a difference. I'm still of the opinion that headphone > amp > DAC.
  
 That Aune S16 seems well spec and good looking. These days there are no shortages of DACs from China, all able to do 384 and with a whole load of technical wizardries . DAC sound is very personal. Most like it neutral but some are coloured like my NAD D1050 a bit warm. I have to love it though as it's a gift from my wife. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 You can also spend a lot on DACs but I think important thing is synergy and a proportionate distribution of funds to the whole Head-Fi setup. Mine is skewed towards tubes now LOL but I don't regret it for a moment. I just love tubes and being able to tube roll and get different sound signatures.
  
 If you think the Aune S16 sounds better than your current Asus Xonar, then go for it. Being able to try it is really good. Aune is smart to let people road test it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> DAC will make a difference. I'm still of the opinion that headphone > amp > DAC.
> 
> That Aune S16 seems well spec and good looking. These days there are no shortages of DACs from China, all able to do 384 and with a whole load of technical wizardries . DAC sound is very personal. Most like it neutral but some are coloured like my NAD D1050 a bit warm. I have to love it though as it's a gift from my wife.
> 
> ...


 
 It's actually not Aune that is letting me test it. At the Danish audio forum hoved-fi.dk, people send their unused audio stuff around to other members. It's pretty amazing actually. I've made about 10 posts on the forum, and they still put me on the tour list for the S16. Talk about trust. 
  
 About the 5998, the seller just sent me a message - a new 5998 is on its way!


----------



## UntilThen

This is a comprehensive review of the Aune S16. $700 ...in mid price range. Very good review there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740376/review-aune-audio-s16-single-box-dac-and-headphone-amplifier


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> About the 5998, the seller just sent me a message - a new 5998 is on its way!


 
 I have to stress that finding a seller willing to do that is more important than buying the cheapest tube. Especially when it's an expensive tube like the 5998.
  
 Kudos to the seller. Let me have his details.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I use this with 3 pins. It hums and then I ground it with a separate wire and it still hums.
> 
> 
> So I switch to this, ground it and it's hum free.
> ...


 
 Actually, I'd find a power supply that isn't grounded. This is from Wikipedia:
  
A ground loop is the result of careless or inappropriate design or interconnection of electrical equipment that results in there being multiple paths to ground where this is not required, so a complete loop is formed. In the simplest case, two items of equipment, A and B, both intended to be grounded for safety reasons, are each connected to a power source (wall socket etc) by a 3 conductor cable and plug, containing a protective ground conductor, usually green/yellow, in accordance with normal safety regulations and practice. This only becomes a problem when one or more signal cables are then connected between A and B, to pass data or audio signals from one to the other. The shield (screen) of the data cable is typically connected to the grounded equipment chassis of both A and B. There is now a ground loop.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I have to stress that finding a seller willing to do that is more important than buying the cheapest tube. Especially when it's an expensive tube like the 5998.
> 
> Kudos to the seller. Let me have his details.


 
 Ebay name is beroflash. Highly recommended!


----------



## Lord Raven

Looks like geetarman has competition on this pair 
  
 Good luck buddy, this is not me  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252170771264?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Looks like geetarman has competition on this pair
> 
> Good luck buddy, this is not me
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252170771264?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Oh wow. Just a month ago, no one wanted to buy them for 100$.. Now they're much higher, and the listing isn't even over yet.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> My christmas tree lights are here
> 
> First tube shipment ever, very well packaged, tubes are in perfect shape, they test strong, I hope they will serve me for a long time, wish me luck guys.
> 
> ...


 
  
 LR --- there are people with a lot more experience and knowledge on this topic but those readings alone are relatively meaningless.  one needs to know something about the test equipment as well (under what conditions is the tube being measured at?  is it at full rating which actually stresses the tube and ensures that it can sustain operation?).  most of the time, ebay sellers will have a serviceable toob tester, some will have emission testers, a few will have curve tracers.  with respect to those particular readings, prima facie, it is okay ... but what will be the results of a genuine nos version of that tube on his tester?  suppose typical genuine nos versions test at 80/80, then what would you say about the condition of the tube(s) being offered?
  
 note: not my intention to overly alarm you - i'm sure those tubes are fine - but tube readings need to be interpreted within the context in which they are provided (and taken with a grain of salt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --- and yes, i'm aware that's a no-no in the land of ksa).
  
  
  


untilthen said:


> I use this with 3 pins. It hums and then I ground it with a separate wire and it still hums.
> 
> 
> So I switch to this, ground it and it's hum free.
> ...


 
  
 6bl7s??? ... lol, no, i refuse to go down that rabbit hole, UT.  i don't even have an elise yet and the drain on my budget is raising red flags --- that's why i typically have only singles of very good tubes, good used ones at that - couldn't afford matched pairs, let alone pairs .  & despite a seemingly expensive pile o' gear, almost all was purchased at great savings used from other head-fiers.  the grace & k7xx were exceptions because massdrop offered a price i couldn't ignore.
  
 wait ... are you hinting that 6bl7 is now premier grand cru classe a ...?
  
 oh man, i can't keep up with this thread ...


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Actually, I'd find a power supply that isn't grounded. This is from Wikipedia:
> 
> A ground loop is the result of careless or inappropriate design or interconnection of electrical equipment that results in there being multiple paths to ground where this is not required, so a complete loop is formed. In the simplest case, two items of equipment, A and B, both intended to be grounded for safety reasons, are each connected to a power source (wall socket etc) by a 3 conductor cable and plug, containing a protective ground conductor, usually green/yellow, in accordance with normal safety regulations and practice. This only becomes a problem when one or more signal cables are then connected between A and B, to pass data or audio signals from one to the other. The shield (screen) of the data cable is typically connected to the grounded equipment chassis of both A and B. There is now a ground loop.


 

 Hahahaha I find that too much for my non electronics head to digest. JV, help !!! What are they saying.
  
 All I know is using the AC adapter in that 2nd photo without the ground pin, I need a separate ground wire going from the negative of FDD20 to Elise chassis or else I'll get loud hum. This is the only way I know how to eliminate hum using FDD20.
  
 JV reckons using a grounded 3 pin AC adapter will then no longer require the separate ground wire.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Hahahaha I find that too much for my non electronics head to digest. JV, help !!! What are they saying.
> 
> All I know is using the AC adapter in that 2nd photo without the ground pin, I need a separate ground wire going from the negative of FDD20 to Elise chassis or else I'll get loud hum. This is the only way I know how to eliminate hum using FDD20.
> 
> JV reckons using a grounded 3 pin AC adapter will then no longer require the separate ground wire.


 
 Okay, so when you're using a grounded power supply to heat your FDD20, you get a hum, even if you connect it to the Elise RCA, right? That's because there is now a ground connection from your FDD20 powersupply, and from the Elise as well. That is a ground loop, which is what makes the humming noise.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> Okay, so when you're using a grounded power supply to heat your FDD20, you get a hum, even if you connect it to the Elise RCA, right? That's because there is now a ground connection from your FDD20 powersupply, and from the Elise as well. That is a ground loop, which is what makes the humming noise.


 
  
 no ... iirc, when ungrounded ps are used to heat fdd20, hum always ensues - this is ameliorated by attaching gnd wire.  otoh, if one purchases <edit> _*good quality*_ gnded ps, then auxiliary gnd wire is not required.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Okay, so when you're using a grounded power supply to heat your FDD20, you get a hum, even if you connect it to the Elise RCA, right? That's because there is now a ground connection from your FDD20 powersupply, and from the Elise as well. That is a ground loop, which is what makes the humming noise.


 

 Sorry correction. When I use a grounded power supply as in my 1st photo without a separate ground wire to Elise RCA, I get hum. I then put a separate ground wire to Elise chassis and it still hums. I then decided to bin that rogue grounded power supply because it hums no matter what I do. So that leads me to think that the laptop looking power supply are better because it provides me with hum free music.
  
 My head is humming now from all these postings. I need a shower !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Sorry correction. When I use a grounded power supply as in my 1st photo without a separate ground wire to Elise RCA, I get hum. I then put a separate ground wire to Elise chassis and it still hums. I then decided to bin that rogue grounded power supply because it hums no matter what I do. So that leads me to think that the laptop looking power supply are better because it provides me with hum free music.


 
 The 'laptop' power supply isn't grounded, correct?


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> no ... iirc, when ungrounded ps are used to heat fdd20, hum always ensues - this is ameliorated by attaching gnd wire.  otoh, if one purchases <edit> _*good quality*_ gnded ps, then auxiliary gnd wire is not required.


 
 See UT's post. He has hum no matter what he does, when he's using the grounded power supply. 
  
 Generally speaking, you should only have one ground connection. If you have more, a way to remove the hum is to use a ground loop isolator.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> See UT's post. He has hum no matter what he does, when he's using the grounded power supply.


 

 geetarman has a good point there. We need to buy a good quality grounded power supply. My grounded power supply that hums is poor quality that's all I can deduce. I think those laptop looking ones with ground pin will do the trick.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> geetarman has a good point there. We need to buy a good quality grounded power supply. My grounded power supply that hums is poor quality that's all I can deduce. I think those laptop looking ones with ground pin will do the trick.


 
 I really don't think it'll make a difference, sorry. I am no expert in this, however, so I might be completely wrong....
  
 I fear that I'm not though.


----------



## Lord Raven

Yes, I use DSD with my DAC. It was a mind blowing experience even with my cheap headphones.
  
 I just read the Aune S16 review that UT posted, it uses a DAC chip AKM’s AK4495SEQ which I am not familiar with. I must say that, a good implementation of a DAC chip determines the quality of DAC, also, a clean power supply would determine its noise floor (LPS). There are several well known DAC chips out there, I have only thoroughly listened to Wolfson and ESS Sabre DAC chips. My Geek Pulse uses Sabre and my Pioneer DVD car audio system uses a Wolfson.
  
 I would suggest to read more about the DAC chips and their sound characteristics as every chip is unique, I hope you will enjoy your DAC, go for it. 700$ is a good budget, you can easily get a Geek Pulse or Audio GD or SMSL M8 (150$ on massdrop right now) or something in the price range.
  
 It would be a definite SQ upgrade from Asus Xonar UT, I used the creative sound cards previously, noisy DACs I must say. Only good for multimedia speaker systems for watching movies hehe
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> Previously I used an Asus Xonar U7. The Aune says 32 bit 384 DSD DAC on the front. That's pretty good, right?


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> 6bl7s??? ... lol, no, i refuse to go down that rabbit hole, UT.  i don't even have an elise yet and the drain on my budget is raising red flags --- that's why i typically have only singles of very good tubes, good used ones at that - couldn't afford matched pairs, let alone pairs .  & despite a seemingly expensive pile o' gear, almost all was purchased at great savings used from other head-fiers.  the grace & k7xx were exceptions because massdrop offered a price i couldn't ignore.
> 
> wait ... are you hinting that 6bl7 is now premier grand cru classe a ...?
> 
> oh man, i can't keep up with this thread ...


 
 One more reply before I hit the shower and have my bacon eggs and coffee.
  
 Those 6BL7 are cheap and according to Mordy they are like Koenigsegg Agera R. They will sound like those super performance cars too. Subwoofer deep he says.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


>


 
 I'm currently sitting here, trying to find out what this DSD is. It's a special way to encode audio? I tried downloading a .dff file and an extension to play it from Foobar. It sounds really good to me, but the display on the S16 doesn't change. Do I have to put it into 'dsd mode'? I've tried all buttons, and I cannot make it change from PCM 44 to anything else. 
  
 Edit: Why can't I quote you LR?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I'm currently sitting here, trying to find out what this DSD is. It's a special way to encode audio? I tried downloading a .dff file and an extension to play it from Foobar. It sounds really good to me, but the display on the S16 doesn't change. Do I have to put it into 'dsd mode'? I've tried all buttons, and I cannot make it change from PCM 44 to anything else.


 
 You need to configure your media player to bypass your codec that sends USB audio stream to your DAC, in simple english, you need to let your PC talk directly to your hardware, that is your DAC. Goto the Aune forum and ask people if they have the tutorial about how to configure your DAC. Otherwise you'll always get the PCM 44.1 on your display. It took me a while either to figure it out for my DAC


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> See UT's post. He has hum no matter what he does, when he's using the grounded power supply.
> 
> Generally speaking, you should only have one ground connection. If you have more, a way to remove the hum is to use a ground loop isolator.


 

 yes ... indeed you are correct ... this issue is not so straightforward.  the simple answer may be ... it depends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 <edit> some 'history' from my spkr days & when i had truly disposable income --- i was getting an awful hum from my 845 monobloc system & i tried all sorts of things ... gnd lifters ... you name it.  i couldn't figure what the hell was going on ... then i replaced my expensive vdH interconnects with el cheapo radio shack realistic brand ... dead quiet ... duh.
  
 as far as laptop ps goes, my lenovo has a gnded 20v,2a supply but my thermaltake drive bay has ungnd 12v,2a supply.  when my turn comes, i'll try the thermaltake ps & let you guys know what happens.
  
 btw, anybody here has a good working vtvm for sale?


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> yes ... indeed you are correct ... this issue is not so straightforward.  the simple answer may be ... it depends
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You used VDH and preferred Radioshack? What was the cause? I know VDH very well and they are extremely expensive, there are types of interconnect cables, namely differential and single ended. If your mono block was SE, then a differential cable would give you a lot of problems.
  
 Check this out, a great explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOagVDZLQnA


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks UT  You're the one who got me into buying these hehe Thank you once again!
  
 These look pretty great in condition, can anyone else confirm this date code? 751?
  
 I am sure it is either 7 week of 1951 or 51st week of 1957  Both ways they are super old hehe I love them already, even without testing them in Elise hehe 
  
 Price, if I told you, you might be disturbed during your shower and your brain might hum greatly haha they're around 50$ for all..
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Raven, those are very lovely Chatham 6AS7G. The letterings are so new. Really like new tubes. Yes those readings are good but what it matters most is when you pop it into Elise. Enjoy, I love those power tubes. Hope you get a good price for it.
> 
> That's 51st week of 1957 I believe.


----------



## hypnos1

geetarman49 said:


> h1 --- i think for most tubes, this method is too harsh for the pin surface.  i would suggest using magic eraser followed by application of deoxit d5.  actually, d5 alone should be satisfactory for most of the tubes that we encounter.


 
  
 Hi geetarman49...a bit late, and others have also answered already. But as JV showed, the FDD20's contacts are nothing like normal 'pins' - which of course are usually a combination of different metals, and perhaps need a bit more care when cleaning. The FDD's are solid brass and can take a rougher approach without harm...so long as not gouged to bits, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...._smooth and shiny_ does it!


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Looks like geetarman has competition on this pair
> 
> Good luck buddy, this is not me
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252170771264?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
  


suuup said:


> Oh wow. Just a month ago, no one wanted to buy them for 100$.. Now they're much higher, and the listing isn't even over yet.


 
  
 grrrr ... okay, who's the cad here?   i'm trying to save $ on a limited budget, lol.


----------



## Lord Raven

SMSL M8 from China has very good reviews when paired with their LPS called P1  150 for DAC and 100 for LPS, under 300$.
  
 Massdrop is offering 50% on this unit, I would have pressed buy button if I had no DAC 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> DAC will make a difference. I'm still of the opinion that headphone > amp > DAC.
> 
> That Aune S16 seems well spec and good looking. These days there are no shortages of DACs from China, all able to do 384 and with a whole load of technical wizardries . DAC sound is very personal. Most like it neutral but some are coloured like my NAD D1050 a bit warm. I have to love it though as it's a gift from my wife.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> grrrr ... okay, who's the cad here?   i'm trying to save $ on a limited budget, lol.


 
 I am sure he is from this forum


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ground HUM info:

http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz

By adding our ground wire to the Elise chassis...we are using a common path to ground. Which is what eliminates the buzz/hum.

If Elise is grounded by the third pin in the AC plug (as it should be) then a Power Supply that uses the third pin, should be grounded the same way/path and hence, no additional wire at the adapter should be needed (that's the theory) 





.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> You used VDH and preferred Radioshack? What was the cause? I know VDH very well and they are extremely expensive, there are types of interconnect cables, namely differential and single ended. If your mono block was SE, then a differential cable would give you a lot of problems.
> 
> Check this out, a great explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOagVDZLQnA


 

 i did not prefer rs cables -- it is just that they completely eliminated the noise.
 yes, my monoblocs were single-ended and the cables were designed for single-ended operation with normal cinch connectors too.
  
 (... I know VDH very well ...)  uh ... not to bandy names about, but i know a.j. very well too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 but that was in the past & i no longer have that system ... it is all moot now ... the story is retold as an illustration that noise has to be tackled on an individual basis - what one person experiences may not apply to others.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


>


 

 I don't believe you paid $50 for 4 new looking Chatham 6AS7G. I'll give you $100 for those 4 then....


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Ground HUM info:
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz
> 
> ...


 
 Hi JV,
  
 Thanks for the explanation, I don't have the third pin (ground) connection on the wall socket, what should I do? 
  
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> i did not prefer rs cables -- it is just that they completely eliminated the noise.
> yes, my monoblocs were single-ended and the cables were designed for single-ended operation with normal cinch connectors too.
> 
> (... I know VDH very well ...)  uh ... not to bandy names about, but i know a.j. very well too
> ...


 
 I suspect faulty VDH cables  I am using Focal Elite and Streetwires in my car audio system, pretty decent. I don't know AJ!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I don't believe you paid $50 for 4 new looking Chatham 6AS7G. I'll give you $100 for those 4 then....


 
 LOL I knew it, you wouldn't believe  Cause you got your pairs for 100 each haha I told Mike and he did not believe it either, next I am gonna get the GEC and you guys would not believe me either


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> LOL I knew it, you wouldn't believe  Cause you got your pairs for 100 each haha I told Mike and he did not believe it either, next I am gonna get the GEC and you guys would not believe me either


 

 I got mine for $50 each. Better look closely at yours. Might be make in China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nah they are genuine and well done on $50 for 4. The seller must be drunk.


----------



## Suuup

Good news: I just connected a wire from my FDD20 to the RCA on the Elise. No hum! I'm using an ungrounded powersupply by the way. 
  
  
  

  


jazzvinyl said:


> Ground HUM info:
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz
> 
> ...


 
 This I do not understand. My Elise is not grounded and neither is my power supply for the FDD20. I have both the Elise and the FDD20 ps connected to the same (ungrounded) extension cord. It hums, except when I connect a wire from the negative FDD20 powersupply wire to the Elise RCA. A completely lifted system (as mine) should be the same as a completely grounded system, no?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I got mine for $50 each. Better look closely at yours. Might be make in China.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL Thank you  They are a great buy, but I had to pay extra shipping to ensure they are delivered to my doorstep  33$ shipping cost, still a great buy, isn't it?
  
 5$ within USA to my forwarding address, then 28$ to my country, this sucks! But it was fast, and accurate, I like this service if the weight is under 500 grams, it is cheap. 1 KG is 28$, I can buy worldwide and have a life time membership. Ship and Ship by Aramex! LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> This I do not understand. My Elise is not grounded and neither is my power supply for the FDD20. I have both the Elise and the FDD20 ps connected to the same (ungrounded) extension cord. It hums, except when I connect a wire from the negative FDD20 powersupply wire to the Elise RCA. A completely lifted system (as mine) should be the same as a completely grounded system, no?




But lets say both WERE properly grounded. You would _not_ need the third wire.

Am glad to know this _did_ work to eliminate your Hum, Suuup!!

Where is your 2031 review?



.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> LOL I knew it, you wouldn't believe  Cause you got your pairs for 100 each haha I told Mike and he did not believe it either, next I am gonna get the GEC and you guys would not believe me either


 

 okay, who's your source? ... just pm me ... & only me, good buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> okay, who's your source? ... just pm me ... & only me, good buddy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And me. I want it too.


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks guys for your input on cleaning the FDD20 tube pins  I am still confused what to do, I think best and available option is a disposable fingernail file, the option UT suggested is good but where do I get their solution? 
  
 Anymore suggestions? My cigars are shipped today, I paid for them 3 days ago, lazy seller I must say LOL
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> h1 --- i think for most tubes, this method is too harsh for the pin surface.  i would suggest using magic eraser followed by application of deoxit d5.  actually, d5 alone should be satisfactory for most of the tubes that we encounter.


 


jazzvinyl said:


> FDD20 only contacts with the outer edges of the "paddles", to the socket. It does not have "pins" in the traditional sense. Use a disposable fingernail file to buff the brass edges.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  



untilthen said:


> Deoxit is good. I use these 2. Red to clean and Gold to preserve the pins. Use both and you'll have clean and shiny pins. Can use these on FDD20 too. Works.


 


hypnos1 said:


> Hi geetarman49...a bit late, and others have also answered already. But as JV showed, the FDD20's contacts are nothing like normal 'pins' - which of course are usually a combination of different metals, and perhaps need a bit more care when cleaning. The FDD's are solid brass and can take a rougher approach without harm...so long as not gouged to bits, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> But lets say both WERE properly grounded. You would _not_ need the third wire.
> 
> Am glad to know this _did_ work to eliminate your Hum, Suuup!!
> 
> ...


 
 It's coming. Just got it working, have only heard 2 songs so far. Also, I'm running it with a Visseaux 6N7G right now, as I haven't changed it yet. Thread is on fire at the moment, so I'm just trying to keep up. Yep, someone else posted while I typed those lines.. I love it!
 Edit: Here's a picture though. The wire is only temporary. It's not even fastened to the RCA, just laying on top of it with the weight of the cord holding it down. 
 I have wires *EVERYWHERE.*


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


>


 
 I haven't cleaned mine, and it is working perfectly!


----------



## UntilThen

Did you know....
  
*2031 (MMXXXI)* will be a common year starting on Wednesday (dominical letter E) of the Gregorian calendar, the 2031st year of the Common Era(CE) and _Anno Domini_ (AD) designations, the 31st year of the 3rd millennium, the 31st year of the 21st century, and the 2nd year of the 2030sdecade.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> I suspect faulty VDH cables  I am using Focal Elite and Streetwires in my car audio system, pretty decent. I don't know AJ!


 

 cables were not faulty ... verified by a.j. himself.
 a.j. = a.j. van den Hul.   & yes, i do know him personally; ate & stayed at his house; watched him at work on mc cartridge(s) ...
  
 btw, again in the past, i have used this to great effect:  http://www.graniteaudio.com/zero/
 i am not promoting that gear, nor am i encouraging anyone to buy it but if you are encountering noise/hum issues within your system that have eluded your best efforts at eliminating, then i encourage you to consider ...  i think there's enough info out there for one to build this device.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I have wires *EVERYWHERE.*


 
 Suuup your system is starting to look like this.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> cables were not faulty ... verified by a.j. himself.
> a.j. = a.j. van den Hul.   & yes, i do know him personally; ate & stayed at his house; watched him at work on mc cartridge(s) ...
> 
> btw, again in the past, i have used this to great effect:  http://www.graniteaudio.com/zero/
> i am not promoting that gear, nor am i encouraging anyone to buy it but if you are encountering noise/hum issues within your system that have eluded your best efforts at eliminating, then i encourage you to consider ...  i think there's enough info out there for one to build this device.


 
 MSRP 600$ for Ground loop system  I would buy new cables and readjust my common ground point in my system hehe I have some ground issues in my car audio, where I have 5 onboard amplifiers including a DSP. I am too lazy to figure it out, it only pops a sound on turn off, no noise or hum just the pop through the speakers. So it is bearable.
  
 Regarding AJ, I think you had a great time with that guy who sells snake oil LOL


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup your system is starting to look like this.


 


 It has really become a mess today.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Did you know....
> 
> *2031 (MMXXXI)* will be a common year starting on Wednesday (dominical letter E) of the Gregorian calendar, the 2031st year of the Common Era(CE) and _Anno Domini_ (AD) designations, the 31st year of the 3rd millennium, the 31st year of the 21st century, and the 2nd year of the 2030sdecade.


 
 Means this 2031 combo will be a thing of past soon?  Mordy's new tubes are coming with a lot of heating requirements LOL I think bigger heater means better electron flow and more SQ


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Means this 2031 combo will be a thing of past soon?  Mordy's new tubes are coming with a lot of heating requirements LOL I think bigger heater means better electron flow and more SQ


 
 LOL. Put the Elise in the oven then, you should get incredible sound!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Did you know....
> 
> *2031 (MMXXXI)* will be a common year starting on Wednesday (dominical letter E) of the Gregorian calendar, the 2031st year of the Common Era(CE) and _Anno Domini_ (AD) designations, the 31st year of the 3rd millennium, the 31st year of the 21st century, and the 2nd year of the 2030sdecade.


 

 gawww .... my head explodes ala dilbert


----------



## UntilThen

Ugh I'm feeling sick. No wonder you have HUM. Clean desk policy like this.


----------



## Lord Raven

Ok I will send you my source, if you promise to not buy it all LOL
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> okay, who's your source? ... just pm me ... & only me, good buddy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I feel I hit a treasure.. Ok I will let your know, currently in talks with the seller to buy all his tubes, you guys are a little late to ask for it LOL
  


suuup said:


> And me. I want it too.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ugh I'm feeling sick. No wonder you have HUM. Clean desk policy like this.


 
 Just to be clear, it doesn't usually look like that.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> LOL. Put the Elise in the oven then, you should get incredible sound!


 
 LOL that is true, I keep it warmer, no fans, no fancy feet  I love the tubes heating up in the morning, and the cracking sound they make on startup and their smell.. haha


----------



## Lord Raven

Ok thanks sup, that's a relief  I might not have to do all that grooming hehe
  


suuup said:


> I haven't cleaned mine, and it is working perfectly!


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> ...
> 
> Regarding AJ, I think you had a great time with that guy who sells snake oil LOL


 
  
 hey ... i resemble that remark, lol.
 snake oil ... uh ..no ....  $$$$$$  yes.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> I feel I hit a treasure.. Ok I will let your know, currently in talks with the seller to buy all his tubes, you guys are a little late to ask for it LOL


 

 okay, then ... how about ... i'll buy from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.    hope shipping out from ksa is not like your experience importing.


----------



## geetarman49

humph ... it's snowing out ... time to unwrap the thrower again & see if it'll fire up.
 god knows i live for the snow   ... & shovelling & 'throwing'


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> hey ... i resemble that remark, lol.
> snake oil ... uh ..no ....  $$$$$$  yes.




LOL there are so many snake oil merchants, audio quest, wire world namely. I only go for decent wires, not too expensive not too cheap. 

I have a Geek Pulse DAC that comes with a 1 M USB cable that costs over 100$,called 1 G cable. Their 2 G cable is 999$. I use the printer cable lol By Belkin haha 

For Elise I'm using RadioShack RCA. works well for me.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> ... I think you had a great time with that guy who sells ...


 
  
 actually it was all bizniz ... the trip itself was gadawful & easily the worst travel of my life to this day, & only made memorable because a.j. was & is a very, very knowledgeable and talented person.  i admire a.j. the physicist/engineer & not a.j. the capitalist.
  
 otoh, i could share with you a story with david chesky ... now, that was a great, great time. in fact, if david were reading this thread i'm sure he even remembers it to this day, that time in montreal.   but i'm saving this anecdote ... until after you sell me some tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 see you guys in a bit ... off to shovel some snow ... it's going to snow the rest of the day & all nite, i suspect.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> okay, then ... how about ... i'll buy from you :wink_face: .    hope shipping out from ksa is not like your experience importing.




Shipping from KSA is good, I shipped my Focal K2 Power KRX3 system to Malaysia and it was super fast and safe. That's my only experience with them lol KRX3 system is over 1500$ Kevlar based speaker system. 

I'll gift you a pair, if I get dirt cheap prices lol 

8 x with copper and 4 x with silver posts, currently in testing, shipping before Christmas lol more Christmas lights inbound Hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> actually it was all bizniz ... the trip itself was gadawful & easily the worst travel of my life to this day, & only made memorable because a.j. was & is a very, very knowledgeable and talented person.  i admire a.j. the physicist/engineer & not a.j. the capitalist.
> 
> otoh, i could share with you a story with david chesky ... now, that was a great, great time. in fact, if david were reading this thread i'm sure he even remembers it to this day, that time in montreal.   but i'm saving this anecdote ... until after you sell me some tubes :evil: .
> 
> see you guys in a bit ... off to shovel some snow ... it's going to snow the rest of the day & all nite, i suspect.




LOL I am a big fan of Chesky Records  See you man..


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Shipping from KSA is good, I shipped my Focal K2 Power KRX3 system to Malaysia and it was super fast and safe. That's my only experience with them lol KRX3 system is over 1500$ Kevlar based speaker system.
> 
> I'll gift you a pair, if I get dirt cheap prices lol
> 
> 8 x with copper and 4 x with silver posts, currently in testing, shipping before Christmas lol more Christmas lights inbound Hehe


 
 Wait, you're getting a ton of 6AS7G's?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Wait, you're getting a ton of 6AS7G's?




Yessir  lol I want a life time supply of tubes haha


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Yessir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't buy the whole market LR! I want a pair as well!


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Don't buy the whole market LR! I want a pair as well!




Actually I only wanted a quad but then I found this lot. 

What happened to your 6N7G pursuit? We might trade if you have an extra Mazda pair lol


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Actually I only wanted a quad but then I found this lot.
> 
> What happened to your 6N7G pursuit? We might trade if you have an extra Mazda pair lol


 
 I have no Mazda at all  I have a pair of Visseaux though, and also some Fivre brown-base incoming. Thought they'd be here today, but I guess they'll be here tomorrow instead. Oh, and a single Tungsol. That one still needs a partner. 
  
 Shipping fees from Denmark are ridiculous though. I've been researching, and the cheapest place is 40 $. Most other places are around 250-300 $. That's right, 250-300 $. It's absolutely insane.


----------



## Suuup

I've been listening to the 2031 combo for about an hour. It really brings a smile to my face. The sound is very joyous. I'll wait a bit before my full impressions, but I have a little caveat. Right now, the soundstage seems very incoherent. I'm running 2x Mullard 6080 as powers. At first, I thought it might be due to my ECC31 being quite worn, but I plopped in one of the NOS ECC31 from my mystery lot, and it's exactly the same. The FDD20 seems to have a wider soundstage than the ECC31. Also, there are lots of detail in the treble on the FDD20 channel, and lots of bass on the ECC31 channel. 
 Overall though, the sound is *very* enjoyable. It might just be my ears that doesn't work right tonight. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I have no Mazda at all  I have a pair of Visseaux though, and also some Fivre brown-base incoming. Thought they'd be here today, but I guess they'll be here tomorrow instead. Oh, and a single Tungsol. That one still needs a partner.
> 
> Shipping fees from Denmark are ridiculous though. I've been researching, and the cheapest place is 40 $. Most other places are around 250-300 $. That's right, 250-300 $. It's absolutely insane.


 
 Really? What did Johanas say to you? I thought you secured a deal with him, he told me he has some then he told me that he went out of stock LOL
  
 If you can send something to neighbouring countries like UK or Germany, my forwarding party with collect if and send it to me hehe.. BTW, shipping from KSA is cheap! Look at www.sp.com.sa


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Really? What did Johanas say to you? I thought you secured a deal with him, he told me he has some then he told me that he went out of stock LOL
> 
> If you can send something to neighbouring countries like UK or Germany, my forwarding party with collect if and send it to me hehe.. BTW, shipping from KSA is cheap! Look at www.sp.com.sa


 
 Nope, only asked about Fivre and Tungsol, not Mazda.
  
 That link really isn't useful. It's just fancy symbols.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Nope, only asked about Fivre and Tungsol, not Mazda.
> 
> That link really isn't useful. It's just fancy symbols.


 
 Haha I am not a native, Arabic is not my first language either. Top left has English support, but this website is poorly translated LOL
  
 Edit: Don't bother, the rate calculator is not working LOL They do have Denmark in the options, I think I need to visit the post office to get the rates for all countries hehe


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I've been listening to the 2031 combo for about an hour. It really brings a smile to my face. The sound is very joyous. I'll wait a bit before my full impressions, but I have a little caveat. Right now, the soundstage seems very incoherent. I'm running 2x Mullard 6080 as powers. At first, I thought it might be due to my ECC31 being quite worn, but I plopped in one of the NOS ECC31 from my mystery lot, and it's exactly the same. The FDD20 seems to have a wider soundstage than the ECC31. Also, there are lots of detail in the treble on the FDD20 channel, and lots of bass on the ECC31 channel.
> Overall though, the sound is *very* enjoyable. It might just be my ears that doesn't work right tonight. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


 
  
 Hi S...it'll need a LOT longer than a day for these two to really tango, lol! - the FDD20 especially takes much longer to develop : bass increases quite dramatically over time; the treble smooths out and the two manage to merge their individually different soundstages as if by magic - to my ears, at least lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...your journey has only just begun!..


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...it'll need a LOT longer than a day for these two to really tango, lol! - the FDD20 especially takes much longer to develop : bass increases quite dramatically over time; the treble smooths out and the two manage to merge their individually different soundstages as if by magic - to my ears, at least lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's what I'm hoping! I'll definitely give them more burn-time.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes with 2031 my initial thoughts were sound coming at me from all over (I did say this before) but now it's gel together for an extremely lovely sound.
  
 Anyhoo...a trio of National Union 6A6 arrives. This was in discussion with Gibosi sometime back about 3 sets of NU but with slightly different internal constructions and on whether they will sound different to each other. This 3 cost me $45. I'll be comparing it with a previous set of $15 NU 6A6.
  
 Will report back later. Some mandatory pictures.


----------



## mordy

6BL7GT and Mazda 6N7G comparison:
  
 First of all, this was a very difficult comparison to make. Why? Because both of these tube combinations sound so beautiful that I simply did not want to change the tubes - just wanted to enjoy the music.
  
 Anyhow, for the benefit of the members of this forum, I had to do it. First, the specifics of the tubes:
  
 Power tubes HP branded GE 6AS7GA from July 1959 with copper rods.
  
 Driver tubes: Mazda 6N7G made by Marconi-Osram Aug 1953 - code is III 8. The manufacturer is a guess, but would make the tubes more likely British  than French made.
 Driver tubes: Sylvania 6BL7GT re branded Automatic Radio and Philco from July 1951 and November 1952 - same construction.
  
 Both setups sound excellent with everything sounding right. The main difference is that the Mazda tubes have a little wider sound stage and excel in the mid range. A gorgeous wall of sound. Very engaging.
  
 The Sylvania tubes have more energy and extension in the bass and treble with a slightly smaller sound stage. They excel in the bass with tremendous slam and impact, have sizzling highs, and a more forward and immediate presentation.
  
 What you may prefer depends on your mood and preferences. The Mazdas are more forgiving of recording venues, the Sylvanias will highlight every wart and nuance in the recording.
  
 It took some 30 hours of burn in before the deep bass appeared, so patience is in order.
  
 My contention has been that there are inexpensive tubes out there that can compete well with the expensive ones. The Elise sounds good with anything you throw at it, but making it truly sing with an inexpensive tube complement of $5-$9 tubes is a source of inspiration to me.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Yes with 2031 my initial thoughts were sound coming at me from all over (I did say this before) but now it's gel together for an extremely lovely sound.
> 
> Anyhoo...a trio of National Union 6A6 arrives. This was in discussion with Gibosi sometime back about 3 sets of NU but with slightly different internal constructions and on whether they will sound different to each other. This 3 cost me $45. I'll be comparing it with a previous set of $15 NU 6A6.
> 
> Will report back later. Some mandatory pictures.


 
  
 very nice, as usual ... i'm slobbering like a brit bulldog ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Shipping from KSA is good, I shipped my Focal K2 Power KRX3 system to Malaysia and it was super fast and safe. That's my only experience with them lol KRX3 system is over 1500$ Kevlar based speaker system.
> 
> I'll gift you a pair, if I get dirt cheap prices lol
> 
> 8 x with copper and 4 x with silver posts, currently in testing, shipping before Christmas lol more Christmas lights inbound Hehe


 

 wow ... what can i say?  & if it comes to pass, i'll tell you one of the great 'untold' stories of the audio world ... nay, i have several, but i can share at least 2 or 3 great ones.
 well, untold is probably too much of an exaggeration ... let's say that these are largely untold by the principals involved.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> 6BL7GT and Mazda 6N7G comparison:


 
 Thanks Mordy for the comparison / review of those tubes. Looks like I have to try the 6BL7 when I'm done with my current tubes burn in which will probably take me to Jan. 2016.
  
 If you like the Mazda, you'll love the Visseaux and Fivre too. Now I have to give the National Union a good listen.


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks Mordy bro for the comparison, now, anyone please tell me where could I find the adapters 
  
 6BL7GT, eBay is full of these tubes, what should I look for when I buy these? How to identify these tubes? Lastly, a power supply, need a bigger one for these bad boys I am sure. Let's do it, if I am unable to find the Mazda, then I am definitely going for this 
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> 6BL7GT and Mazda 6N7G comparison:


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Thanks Mordy bro for the comparison, now, anyone please tell me where could I find the adapters
> 
> 6BL7GT, eBay is full of these tubes, what should I look for when I buy these? How to identify these tubes? Lastly, a power supply, need a bigger one for these bad boys I am sure. Let's do it, if I am unable to find the Mazda, then I am definitely going for this




Hello LR - 

Here is the 6BL7 adapter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191741357847

They are 'regular Octal', in pinout, but pins 7 & 8 not connected, employs external wires, instead, to use external 6.3 volts. Allow for 1.5 amps draw, for each tube, 3 amps total, for 6BL7 current draw.

These are 6.3 volt, not 12 volt tubes. But draw more current than the Elise is designed to deliver, so it's important that you heat the 6BL7's externally.

Also...did you know:
When you reply _above_ what the other person wrote, the editor quoting, gets messed up (for the next person who wants to quote what you said)...

Cheers...



.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello LR -
> 
> Here is the 6BL7 adapter:
> 
> ...


 
 Hi JV,
  
 Thank you for your simple explanation  FDD uses 12 volts and maybe under 1A current draw for both tubes if a pair is used. And 6BL7GT used 6.3 volts at 3A for a pair, right?
  
 Is there any power supply out there that can do both? Mordy tried to help me out with the PS but I could not find anything on eBay. I can built a PS myself like I used to do in my engineering workshops but collecting parts and transformers is not easy. 
  
 Also, guide me to a pair of 6BL7GT on eBay?
  
 The editor works fine with me even if I post above or below LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

The two pins on the left are not connected, they are the wires coming out for heating, am I right? 
  
*6BL7GT adapter in view.*


----------



## UntilThen

You need to get the 12V 6A AC adapter and voltage regulator to work for both FDD20 and 6BL7. Just need to set the regular to the correct 12v or 6.3v settings for either type of tubes.
  
 See my post on #2685. That AC adapter is aussie plug. Find one that suits your country.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Thank you for your simple explanation  FDD uses 12 volts and maybe under 1A current draw for both tubes if a pair is used. And 6BL7GT used 6.3 volts at 3A for a pair, right?
> 
> ...




Interesting, the quote reply is blank unless the poster replied below the original posters' text for me...

Correct on the specs you quoted for both tubes. I just found (2) old computer power supplies (both grounded) in a closet while looking for something else!!

One is 19.2v @ 9.6 Amps...pretty heavy duty. If I just buy this (that Mordy alerted us to):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231104103029

Then I can use the 19.5v/9,6 Amp Power Supply for both FDD20 or 6BL7, just dial down/up the voltage as needed.

Providing more amperage is OK as the device used, will only "draw" what it needs.


.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> The two pins on the left are not connected, they are the wires coming out for heating, am I right?
> 
> [COLOR=333333]*6BL7GT adapter in view.*[/COLOR]




Yeppers


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Interesting, the quote reply is blank unless the poster replied below the original posters' text for me...
> 
> Correct on the specs you quoted for both tubes. I just found (2) old computer power supplies (both grounded) in a closet while looking for something else!!
> 
> ...


 
 This is even better  With a display..
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216?rmvSB=true


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You need to get the 12V 6A AC adapter and voltage regulator to work for both FDD20 and 6BL7. Just need to set the regular to the correct 12v or 6.3v settings for either type of tubes.
> 
> See my post on #2685. That AC adapter is aussie plug. Find one that suits your country.


 
 This means, if I have a heavier PS, I can use this little badass device to step the DC down to whatever output I need LOL That is crazy stuff... But where do we house this bad boy?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm using this.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> This is even better  With a display..
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216?rmvSB=true




Does NOT handle as much amperage. Only 2A max, it will turn to smoke attached to an almost 10A power supply.

Be careful...!


----------



## UntilThen

Crap I bought that. ^^


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> This means, if I have a heavier PS, I can use this little badass device to step the DC down to whatever output I need LOL That is crazy stuff... But where do we house this bad boy?




A guy who just told me he could build his own power supply from scratch...can surely figure out how to house this little voltage regulator...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Crap I bought that. ^^




When I saw the less than $5.00 price...

.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Does NOT handle as much amperage. Only 2A max, it will turn to smoke attached to an almost 10A power supply.
> 
> Be careful...!


 
 It says, output 0-5A.


----------



## UntilThen

It says 5A...so no good? Leave for the Christmas tree?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216?rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
  
*Performance parameters*
 1?Input voltage range:4~38VDC(Note:input voltage not exceeding 38V)
 2?Output voltage range:1.25-36VDC adjustable
*3?Output current: 0-5A*
 4?Output power: 75W
 5?voltmeter range: 4 to 40V, error ±0.1V
 6?Operating frequency: 180KHz
 7?High efficiency up to 96%
 8?Built in thermal shutdown function
 9?Built in current limit function
 10?Built in output short protection function
 11?Input reverse polarity protection: None (if required, high current diode in series with the input).
 12?L x W x H =6.6*3.9*1.8CM
  
 JV, will this work?


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> It says, output 0-5A.




Your right, it does. Good up to a 5A supply...and I do like the digital readout! I would test it, to be sure it was accurate before I trusted it, however 



.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> A guy who just told me he could build his own power supply from scratch...can surely figure out how to house this little voltage regulator...


 
 Inside a matchbox LOL Then watch both of them burn haha


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Your right, it does. Good up to a 5A supply...
> 
> .


 
 But we only needed 3A so it is good hehe


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> But we only needed 3A so it is good hehe




IF your power supply is 5 amps or less........

Right?


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Your right, it does. Good up to a 5A supply...and I do like the digital readout! I would test it, to be sure it was accurate before I trusted it, however
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
 I do have a digital multimeter  I know, you can't trust electronics hehe


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I do have a digital multimeter  I know, you can't trust electronics hehe




Since you were willing to build your own Power Supply....I assumed that was the case


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> IF your power supply is 5 amps or less........
> 
> Right?


 
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LCD-AC-Power-Supply-Adapter-DC-12-Volt-6-Amp-12V-6A-with-round-tip-5-5mm-2-5mm-/221815437071?hash=item33a53af70f:g:h~8AAOSwgQ9VlKrU&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
  
 Here is the PS LOL


----------



## UntilThen

If you told me I'll be involved in power supplies, voltage regulator, 12V, 25V, 3-5A before I bought Elise I would have said 'Yeah ri-ght' !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'ma send my unit back to Lukasz to have all this built in.


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





jazzvinyl said:


> Your right, it does. Good up to a 5A supply...and I do like the digital readout! I would test it, to be sure it was accurate before I trusted it, however
> 
> 
> 
> .


 

 Phew my $5 didn't go down the drain.


----------



## Lord Raven

I found a better one for those who are complaining for low price 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-6A-DC-Step-Up-Converter-3-5V-30V-5-V-12V-Regulated-Powersupply-Volt-Meter-/390989154145?hash=item5b08c50761:g:xLgAAMXQC-tTFMpr


----------



## Suuup

Okay, hang on people. People are linking both step-up AND step-down converters. These are not the same things.
  
 With a step-down (also known as a buck converter), you will need a powersupply with a higher voltage than what you need in the end. 
 With a step-up (also known as a boost converter), you will need a powersupply with a lower voltage than what you need in the end. 
  
 Be careful not to confuse the two. If you have a 19V powersupply, you might as well cancel that step-up converter you just ordered. It will not be able to driver neither the FDD20 nor the 6BL7. If you're not afraid to shell out a bit to be sure, buy something similar to this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/30V-5A-Precision-Variable-Adjustable-Digital-DC-Power-Supply-W-Clip-Cable-110V-/380937855913?hash=item58b1aa63a9:g:eeMAAOSwo8hTrMYk.
 It'll let you drive pretty much any tube you want. 
  
 Another alternative is this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-35V-to-1-35V-DC-DC-Buck-Boost-Charger-Power-Converter-Module-With-Aluminum-HG-/281746577986?hash=item4199679a42:g:ITgAAOSwjVVVoPRG
 This is both a buck and a boost converter. It can handle up to 5A output, though I wouldn't recommend running it at 5A for a long time, as I imagine it would get quite hot.


----------



## mordy

Hi All,
  
 I have a couple of these voltage regulators and they are easy to connect and easy to use.
  
 Look at this picture. On the right and left you see the blue blocks with slotted screws; in this case there are facilities for four wires on each side. In and out are clearly marked. If the unit you buy only has terminals for two wires on each side, you can double up the wires. The side Out will need 2x2 wires for the tube heaters.
 The side that says In is for the wires from the power supply. The side that says Out is for the wires going to the heaters for the tubes. As far as I know the polarity does not matter, even though the blue connectors are labeled + or - .
 The black and gray fins are heat sinks - even on my 15A voltage regulator they don't get hot to the touch.
 On bottom right notice a little black push button. This is for turning off or on the digital voltage readout which can be very bright. If your voltage regulator does not have a digital readout you can just touch the probes of a volt meter to the Out terminals + and - . Some voltage regulators have a second push button to turn it off or on.
 On the top left is a blue block with a slotted screw. Turning this screw clockwise or anti clockwise changes the voltage - the readout will tell you what it is. Sometimes it is a little tricky to get it exact - it may jump from say 6.28V to 6.33V, but this variation doesn't really matter.
 For some reason the voltage that is measured at the actual tube pins may be lower the the nominal voltage out at the voltage regulator. The voltage regulator may have to be set at 7.2V to get 6.3V as measured at the tube pins with a 2.5A tube as an example. The voltage drop varies from tube to tube.  Don't know how significant this is, but I do know that you have to be very careful measuring this. You may cause a short and fry something, or get a shock from 155V which is dangerous. Probably best to skip this.
 Finally, if you look at the green printed circuit board you will see four holes at the corners. These are for mounting screws. I cut a little piece of floor
 molding or wood to size and used two wood screws to secure the circuit board. Some voltage regulators come with mounting bolts and nuts - I used these to make a little space between the wooden piece and the circuit board for cooling and to allow for the solder spots underneath.
  
 And this concludes our little tutorial about voltage regulators. Oh yes, based on my experience, shipping to the US from Hong Kong takes longer than from China - YMMV.






 
 These are buck converters or step down converters. Using a 12V power supply you can drive any tube except for the 26V aircraft tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I like your first one Suuup.
  
 How about this up to 10A.
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30V-10A-DC-Power-Lab-Supply-Adjustable-Variable-Regulated-Lab-Digital-Display-/121741950378?hash=item1c5862bdaa:g:0g8AAOSw~gRVmjDs


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I like your first one Suuup.
> 
> How about this up to 10A.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30V-10A-DC-Power-Lab-Supply-Adjustable-Variable-Regulated-Lab-Digital-Display-/121741950378?hash=item1c5862bdaa:g:0g8AAOSw~gRVmjDs


 
 That's fine as well. I've been playing around with a crapton of those at the University - I had to make my own computer, transistor after resistor after transistor after resistor. Good times.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have a couple of these voltage regulators and they are easy to connect and easy to use.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you use a step up or down - or a combo?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> These are buck converters or step down converters. Using a 12V power supply you can drive any tube except for the 26V aircraft tubes.




But Mordy - the one you show is listed as a step-up converter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-6A-DC-Step-Up-Converter-3-5V-30V-5-V-12V-Regulated-Powersupply-Volt-Meter-/390989154145

.


----------



## mordy

Step down or buck converter. I like 15A, especially since they are not expensive:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301123504994?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 This is just one example - there are many available.


----------



## UntilThen

Gentlemen....I really want this...I can play with those readouts the whole day !!!
  
 Is this all I need? No more separate power supply and voltage regular right?


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 You are right - I just used the picture since it was very clear. You need a buck step down converter.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Gentlemen....I really want this...I can play with those readouts the whole day !!!
> 
> Is this all I need? No more separate power supply and voltage regular right?


 
 Yep. This can run basically any tube you want - even the 26V aircraft ones! (I don't know the current draw, but I imagine it is quite low)
  
 Edit: It even has a ground!
  
 The one I linked is a 110V version, which should fit the Americans. You run 220-240V in Australia, right? You might have to find another one.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok executive decision from me. Since I have already bought the 12V 6A AC adapter, I will use that straight into 2 FDD20.
  
 The 5A step down voltage regulator I'll keep as a souvenir, in memory of my tube rolling days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ...and I won't buy that fancy pansy swiss army knife current and voltage adjustable unit...until next Christmas 2016.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This has MIND BLOWING "super audio quality" on the Elise (playing lossless from the CD)

 [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvKbBkiYN9Y[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

That's a nice song JV.
  
 Meanwhile I've all these tubes line up for a shoot out. Mazda 6N7G, ECC31 and FDD20 not in the picture yet. This will be fun leading up to Christmas. I'm using my GE 6AS7G power tubes to burn in these tubes.
  
 L to R in pairs. 
 Visseaux 6A6, National Union 6A6, National Union 6A6 single (2 more on the amp), Fivre 6N7G and Fivre 6A6.
  

  
 The trio of National Union 6A6 is sounding real good. Need to A/B with the other pair of National Union 6A6 and all the other tubes. IMO 6A6 are really good value tubes. Cheap and good sounding and no guide pin.


----------



## Lord Raven

Is Visseaux 6SN7GT also a joy bringer or the only one is 6N7G? What is the difference between the two types? Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

I think you meant Visseaux 6N7GT and not 6SN7GT.
  
 I prefer the 6N7G and 6A6 over the RCA 6N7GT which I have. That's not a blanket statement though. Visseaux 6N7GT could be good too but I don't have that.
  
 6N7, 6N7G and 6N7GT all belong to the 6N7 family. There are some similar sonic traits such as wider soundstage and more upfront midrange. I do like them as well as the 6A6 which predates the 6N7. Really marvellous sounding tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Buy this and the 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters and you'll be very happy.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/coppia-vintage-6A6G-6A6X-VISSEAUX-AIR-Engraved-base-doppio-triodo-tube-valve-/252183728624?hash=item3ab75251f0:gyEAAOSwv-NWVBaT


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I think you meant Visseaux 6N7GT and not 6SN7GT.
> 
> I prefer the 6N7G and 6A6 over the RCA 6N7GT which I have. That's not a blanket statement though. Visseaux 6N7GT could be good too but I don't have that.
> 
> 6N7, 6N7G and 6N7GT all belong to the 6N7 family. There are some similar sonic traits such as wider soundstage and more upfront midrange. I do like them as well as the 6A6 which predates the 6N7. Really marvellous sounding tubes.


 
 Yes, I did a typo from my mobile phone. Sorry about that.
  
 Does anyone on this forum use Visseaux 6N7GT? I think you once said that it is the descendant of 6N7G. It could be true that they perform at the same level as their ancestors 6N7G.
  
 6A6 would require a different adapter I suppose, and I guess 6N7 uses the same adapter as ECC31 to 6SN7. Please clarify.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> The trio of National Union 6A6 is sounding real good. Need to A/B with the other pair of National Union 6A6 and all the other tubes. IMO 6A6 are really good value tubes. Cheap and good sounding and no guide pin. :bigsmile_face:




Any stand out 6A6's? The Fivre? The Visseaux?

Or all pretty close to one another? And sound like 6N7G's? Or no?

.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> wow ... what can i say?  & if it comes to pass, i'll tell you one of the great 'untold' stories of the audio world ... nay, i have several, but i can share at least 2 or 3 great ones.
> well, untold is probably too much of an exaggeration ... let's say that these are largely untold by the principals involved.


 
 Say it that, you love me 
  
 Bro, wake up the, my first gift to you is going away: *Couple vintage FIVRE 6N7G = ECC31 black plates. "Horn with" Made in 1942*
  
 You would not believe that I bought this tube for dirt cheap price, people are going crazy of European tubes, it is now 135 USD, damn it!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Say it that, you love me
> 
> Bro, wake up the, my first gift to you is going away: *Couple vintage FIVRE 6N7G = ECC31 black plates. "Horn with" Made in 1942*
> 
> You would not believe that I bought this tube for dirt cheap price, people are going crazy of European tubes, it is now 135 USD, damn it!


 
 Wait, you have a Fivre 6N7G?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Wait, you have a Fivre 6N7G?


 
 I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wait, I don't have headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just collecting tubes for Christmas tree LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Since when? Did you receive it yet? Brown base or 'Whit Horn'?


----------



## hpamdr

lord raven said:


> ...
> Does anyone on this forum use Visseaux 6N7GT? I think you once said that it is the descendant of 6N7G. It could be true that they perform at the same level as their ancestors 6N7G.
> ...


 
 I do use 6N7GT the internal is the same as for 6N7G but compacted is straight bottle. I do appreciate it a lot paired with 6080WA CSF and HD650 or with 5998 and T1. The sound is very detailed with solid bass but less than with ECC31.
_(I can try to get 2/3 pairs if someone is interested send me a PM. )_


----------



## Lord Raven

hpamdr said:


> I do use 6N7GT the internal is the same as for 6N7G but compacted is straight bottle. I do appreciate it a lot paired with 6080WA CSF and HD650 or with 5998 and T1. The sound is very detailed with solid bass but less than with ECC31.
> _(I can try to get 2/3 pairs if someone is interested send me a PM. )_




How much is he price brother? Thanks for your review. I am interested but already in talks with a seller. I hope you give me best price.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Say it that, you love me
> 
> Bro, wake up the, my first gift to you is going away: *Couple vintage FIVRE 6N7G = ECC31 black plates. "Horn with" Made in 1942*
> 
> You would not believe that I bought this tube for dirt cheap price, people are going crazy of European tubes, it is now 135 USD, damn it!


 

 wait .. what?  i'm confused ... are you bidding on the same ones that i've got a bid on?  i should stop bidding, then?
  
 i've been out shovelling/throwing the white stuff since 7:45am & i just come back & see that it's climbed to, yeah, $135usd !!!! and with shipping that turns out to almost $200cdn ... duh!
  
 wait, are you saying you're gifting me a set of fivre 6n7g?   i'm so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... the white stuff has permeated my frozen head (& no, it's not up my nose ... i don't indulge ...).   <edit> hey, i do luv u bro'  ... do u have a dsd dac? pm me.
  
 okay, some good news ... got a pr of mullard 6080s and ecc31s from langrex.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> wait .. what?  i'm confused ... are you bidding on the same ones that i've got a bid on?  i should stop bidding, then?
> 
> i've been out shovelling/throwing the white stuff since 7:45am & i just come back & see that it's climbed to, yeah, $135usd !!!! and with shipping that turns out to almost $200cdn ... duh!
> 
> ...


 
 LOL Bro you told me to stay away from these and I am staying away, I am just saying that the price is climbing to you better get your funds ready  I repeat, I am not bidding on this one..
  
 200 is still better, next pair would go for 250, who knows? :O
  
 hehe I only have a pile of Chatham 6AS7G tubes with Gold rods coming my way LOL Don't be confused, this time is to concentrate on bidding..
  
 I do have a DSD DAC and I do enjoy the DSD music, mind blowing experience I must say. Initially I thought, I should only invest in DSD but then I thought, Elise would go in vain, hence all the tube rolling in from parts of the world. My DAC is probably as good as Elise in stock condition. I cannot listen any difference of sound, trust me. It is a Dual Mono DAC chip cocnfiguration with dual mono SE HP amplifier with Femto clocks and all internals are hand picked, matched of highest grade  You guessed it, it's a Geek Pulse SFi.
  
 Great news, I bought the same Mullards 6080 from Langrex LOL 15GBP for a pair.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL Bro you told me to stay away from these and I am staying away, I am just saying that the price is climbing to you better get your funds ready  I repeat, I am not bidding on this one..
> 
> 200 is still better, next pair would go for 250, who knows? :O
> 
> ...


 
 Langrex sells Mullard 6080 for 15 GBP a pair?!


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Langrex sells Mullard 6080 for 15 GBP a pair?!


 
 Yessir, we both got the Mullards from there LOL Let me check if it was them, I'll get back, meanwhile Geetarman will report his price.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Yessir, we both got the Mullards from there LOL Let me check if it was them, I'll get back, meanwhile Geetarman will report his price.


 
 Wow. I paid 50 gbp from Cyprus including shipping. Now that I think about it, it would probably cost me about the same to order from US, even though the price is only 15 gbp for the pair. Customs and shipping is expensive!


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Wow. I paid 50 gbp from Cyprus including shipping. Now that I think about it, it would probably cost me about the same to order from US, even though the price is only 15 gbp for the pair. Customs and shipping is expensive!


 
 50 GBP is not bad if it was with shipping, mine was 15GBP for the matched pair and free shipping LOL I sent them to a friend in UK, he will bring them to Saudi Arabia in December


----------



## Lord Raven

Yes, confirmed, I bought from Langrex.. They have more, if you want to buy for future hehe


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> 50 GBP is not bad if it was with shipping, mine was 15GBP for the matched pair and free shipping LOL I sent them to a friend in UK, he will bring them to Saudi Arabia in December


 

 15gbp for a pr?  i just checked my invoice and it was 15gbp *each *plus shipping (not free).


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> 15gbp for a pr?  i just checked my invoice and it was 15gbp *each *plus shipping (not free).


 
 HAHA I am such a heartbreaker.. I should not talk about prices I get  If you want a pair, let me know, I will get you for 15 GBP from Langrex, you might have to pay shipping. I got free shipping in the UK as I mentioned earlier.
  
 Edit: Matched Pair, I posted these a while ago, where were you at that time?


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> HAHA I am such a heartbreaker.. I should not talk about prices I get  If you want a pair, let me know, I will get you for 15 GBP from Langrex, you might have to pay shipping. I got free shipping in the UK as I mentioned earlier.
> 
> Edit: Matched Pair


 

 thnx, LR, but my pr are already on their way & i don't think i'll need spares for these --- i think i can already count the # of years of audio listening i have left on 1 hand ... lol.
  
 okay ... i'm back on top on the fivres ... now whoever's bidding against me, please just stop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> thnx, LR, but my pr are already on their way & i don't think i'll need spares for these --- i think i can already count the # of years of audio listening i have left on 1 hand ... lol.
> 
> okay ... i'm back on top on the fivres ... now whoever's bidding against me, please just stop
> 
> ...


 
 Haha that is some sad and desperate comment, bro, you'll love the song you'll listen to, I am sure those will be in big numbers..
  
 Yes, we should help each other buy tubes at good rates, please stop, who ever is bidding against my friend 
  
 Who is bidding on this beautiful pair? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262152368725?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI262152368725.N36.S2.R2.TR4


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Haha that is some sad and desperate comment, bro, you'll love the song you'll listen to, I am sure those will be in big numbers..
> 
> Yes, we should help each other buy tubes at good rates, please stop, who ever is bidding against my friend
> 
> ...


 

 not i, altho i'd love to get my hands on a set.
  
 while the comment was made somewhat in jest ... the situation is not trivial ... i'm one of those afflicted with tinnitus - 24/7 for the last 50+ yrs.  the last 2 yrs, it has gotten a lot worse.
  
 coming back from snowthrowing, even with in-ear protectors, my ears are doing a musical disco for the past hr.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> not i, altho i'd love to get my hands on a set.
> 
> while the comment was made somewhat in jest ... the situation is not trivial ... i'm one of those afflicted with tinnitus - 24/7 for the last 50+ yrs.  the last 2 yrs, it has gotten a lot worse.
> 
> coming back from snowthrowing, even with in-ear protectors, my ears are doing a musical disco for the past hr.


 
 God bless you bro, we audiophiles all suffer from this condition to some extent. Ears, eyes, all other senses fade out.. This is life. Did you use shot gun a lot? Or went to the concerts?


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> God bless you bro, we audiophiles all suffer from this condition to some extent. Ears, eyes, all other senses fade out.. This is life. Did you use shot gun a lot? Or went to the concerts?


 

 i went to a lot of concerts & that didn't help & worked around noisy computer systems --- seen most of the big acts - led zep, cream, who, jethro tull, deep purple, clash, black sabbath, alice cooper, peter gabriel, ' stones, dylan, ... so many more .. but my ears were already badly damaged in jr high by one of those pranks that kids were wont to do at that age.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> i went to a lot of concerts & that didn't help & worked around noisy computer systems --- seen most of the big acts - led zep, cream, who, jethro tull, deep purple, clash, black sabbath, alice cooper, peter gabriel, ' stones, dylan, ... so many more .. but my ears were already badly damaged in jr high by one of those pranks that kids were wont to do at that age.


 
 Congratulations you won bro 
  
 I used to play with fireworks a lot as a kid, no one told me that I might lose my hearing. I have different pressure in my both ears, I went for a nose surgery either, therefore, it sucks for all of us audiophiles LOL Enjoy you recent purchase


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Congratulations you won bro
> 
> I used to play with fireworks a lot as a kid, no one told me that I might lose my hearing. I have different pressure in my both ears, I went for a nose surgery either, therefore, it sucks for all of us audiophiles LOL Enjoy you recent purchase


 
 hahaha ... pyrrhic victory ... i'm now the poorest soul on the block, but i got the toobs!  no $$ left for elise tho.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> hahaha ... pyrrhic victory ... i'm now the poorest soul on the block, but i got the toobs!  no $$ left for elise tho.


 
 LOL That sounds bad  First Elise, then tube rolling, this was my policy  I was new to tube, I thought to learn about them before buying. It worked for me. Now I buy with a little confidence.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Yes, confirmed, I bought from Langrex.. They have more, if you want to buy for future hehe


 
 I just realized Langrex is based in the UK. That means no customs duty and cheap shipping. I'll have to look at their stock. Someone please hold my wallet?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I just realized Langrex is based in the UK. That means no customs duty and cheap shipping. I'll have to look at their stock. Someone please hold my wallet?




LOL OK I'm holding it  It's empty already haha


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL OK I'm holding it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It says 25 GBP each for a 6080 Mullard on their site?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> It says 25 GBP each for a 6080 Mullard on their site?




Let me send you a PM lol


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Let me send you a PM lol


 
 I got a pair already, so I'm not looking to buy. Just curious about the price.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I got a pair already, so I'm not looking to buy. Just curious about the price.




PM sent lol You'll buy them I'm sure  

More is less in the tube rolling world!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Yes, I did a typo from my mobile phone. Sorry about that.
> 
> Does anyone on this forum use Visseaux 6N7GT? I think you once said that it is the descendant of 6N7G. It could be true that they perform at the same level as their ancestors 6N7G.
> 
> 6A6 would require a different adapter I suppose, and I guess 6N7 uses the same adapter as ECC31 to 6SN7. Please clarify.


 
 6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT and ECC31 all uses the same adapter - ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201134198992?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I wouldn't consider the 6N7GT a descendant of 6N7G. I would like to think they are contemporaries. If anyone has a timeline of 6N7, 6N7G & 6N7GT production please share. They are from the same family of tubes known as 6N7. See VinylSaviour's blog. 6A6 is the predecessor of 6N7.
  
 6A6 uses this adapter - 6A6 to 6SN7 adapter.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191703907220?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## UntilThen

LR, you need to tell them that your Mullard 6080 from Langrex is special price because of a slight crack in the base, even though I can't see it in the pictures.
  
 Langrex a few weeks ago have many different sets of Mullard 6080, all with different boxes. Price range from 15, 25, to 45 a pair. I posted a link back then and LR was asking me if the 15 ones are ok. A slight dent or crack won't affect the sound at all. They are all NOS tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Any stand out 6A6's? The Fivre? The Visseaux?
> 
> Or all pretty close to one another? And sound like 6N7G's? Or no?
> 
> .


 

 On 6A6, Visseaux and Fivre stands out for sure. The trio of NU 6A6 sounded superb too but not so the 1st pair of NU 6A6 which is not as clear in treble and mid. I will be further accessing it with extended listen. Too early for me to make a determination but those are initial impressions.
  
 At this point of my listening tests, these are my impressions of 6N7G, 6A6 and ECC31.
  
 6N7G has the most bite, snap attack and sounds lively and very exciting. This is generalising because brands also differ in sound. Mazda 6N7G has the most bite followed by the Fivre 6N7G. I have no Visseaux 6N7G so I cannot comment.
  
 ECC31 is at the other end of the scale. It is more mellow in the mids and highs but the lowest and deepest bass.
  
 6A6 appears to be in the middle. It is closer to the 6N7G than the ECC31 for sure. For this reason and the price, I like the 6A6 a lot, even though the adapters are very big and very white.
  
 My impressions might change after a lengthy listen which I'll be doing for a few weeks from now.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> *Couple vintage FIVRE 6N7G = ECC31 black plates. "Horn with" Made in 1942*
> 
> You would not believe that I bought this tube for dirt cheap price, people are going crazy of European tubes, it is now 135 USD, damn it!


 
 Price has gone up a lot now on the Fivre 6N7G. It's gone now from eBay. The bidding must have ended. Who bought it? I got mine at Euro 89 and I was the only bidder.
  
 This looks interesting but the price is very high for a Fivre 6N7GT, regardless of the brown base.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TUBE-6SN7-FIVRE-6SN7GT-STRONG-80-80-80-80-6SN7-GT-TRIODE-BROWN-BASE-CODE-84-/262069796276?hash=item3d0493bdb4:g:UpMAAOSwBmZWCaHA


----------



## UntilThen

These are the various Mullard 6080 from Langrex now. Your choice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I wonder if they sound different lol. What's so special about the GBP50 ones?
  
 GBP15
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-NOS-/262126134982?hash=item3d07ef66c6:g:G8sAAOSwo0JWOM6Z
  
 GBP30
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805:g:7rkAAOSwF1dUUiu7
  
 GBP25
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311478749131?hash=item48859487cb:g:lK4AAOSwwbdWOe-m
  
 GBP50
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC13-/272036377703?hash=item3f56a1b467:g:R6sAAOSwu-BWOfG5


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> This looks interesting but the price is very high for a Fivre 6N7GT, regardless of the brown base.


 
  
 Probably because they are 6SN7GTs.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Probably because they are 6SN7GTs.


 

 Oh yes you're right. I missed seeing the S on the tube itself. I thought I saw 6N7GT. This is interesting. I have not seen a Fivre 6SN7GT before. There's a lot on eBay.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> 6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT and ECC31 all uses the same adapter - ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201134198992?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks UT, I got the ECC31 - 6SN7 adapters already on my table from suzier.
  
 I am getting the Visseaux mainly cause the Mazda is out of stock on eBay :/ I hope they're as good as them..
  
 6A6, I have not thought about it yet, maybe after I get my first lot of tubes, then I'll decide. I am probably doing the 6BL7GT first


----------



## Lord Raven

Indeed, I was looking for Mullard 6080 and only ones available were from Cyprus at 80 USD and were also used. Then I found these and talked to the seller, he said the cracks are barely noticeable and he is not able to take a picture of them. I asked him to send me a pair without crack and he did, I posted pictures, there were no visible cracks. He also matched them for me for free and gave me free shipping in UK. Woohoo!!!
  
 I only wanted the Gold rods, they had those so I pressed the buy button 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> LR, you need to tell them that your Mullard 6080 from Langrex is special price because of a slight crack in the base, even though I can't see it in the pictures.
> 
> Langrex a few weeks ago have many different sets of Mullard 6080, all with different boxes. Price range from 15, 25, to 45 a pair. I posted a link back then and LR was asking me if the 15 ones are ok. A slight dent or crack won't affect the sound at all. They are all NOS tubes.


 
  


untilthen said:


> These are the various Mullard 6080 from Langrex now. Your choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

All Mullard 6080 or CV2984 have copper rods. I have not seen one without copper rods. These are very sweet sounding power tubes. Bass is controlled, in quantity and quality. The tube construction looks very nice. Only a carbon plated Bendix 6080WB will make me drool more.
  
 Btw yours are GBP15 each and not pair.
  
 As with most people experience, James Langrex is a very accomodating and nice person to deal with. James Rhodes I mean. Langrex is the company name.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> These are the various Mullard 6080 from Langrex now. Your choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The 50 GBP is a pair, the 25 GBP is a single. Guess that's the difference?
  
  
 On another note, I think the postal service in Denmark is having trouble. The Fivre 6N7G brown-base arrived in Denmark 4 days ago, but they're still not here  Hopefully they'll be here tomorrow, when I have a day off.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The 50 GBP is a pair, the 25 GBP is a single. Guess that's the difference?
> 
> 
> On another note, I think the postal service in Denmark is having trouble. The Fivre 6N7G brown-base arrived in Denmark 4 days ago, but they're still not here  Hopefully they'll be here tomorrow, when I have a day off.


 

 Oh yes you're right. I hadn't noticed the GBP50 are matched pairs. I really hope you'll get your brown base safely. I want to know if there's a diff between the Fivres.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Thanks UT, I got the ECC31 - 6SN7 adapters already on my table from suzier.
> 
> I am getting the Visseaux mainly cause the Mazda is out of stock on eBay :/ I hope they're as good as them..
> 
> 6A6, I have not thought about it yet, maybe after I get my first lot of tubes, then I'll decide. I am probably doing the 6BL7GT first


 

 Are there anymore Visseaux 6N7G? I want to get a pair to complete my collection plus I need to hear the Joybringers.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Are there anymore Visseaux 6N7G? I want to get a pair to complete my collection plus I need to hear the Joybringers.


 
 I could only find the Visseaux 6N7GT, not the 6N7G. I am not sure if they are joy bringers as well  They certainly will complete the collection, unfortunately not available.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> All Mullard 6080 or CV2984 have copper rods. I have not seen one without copper rods. These are very sweet sounding power tubes. Bass is controlled, in quantity and quality. The tube construction looks very nice. Only a carbon plated Bendix 6080WB will make me drool more.
> 
> Btw yours are GBP15 each and not pair.
> 
> As with most people experience, James Langrex is a very accomodating and nice person to deal with. James Rhodes I mean. Langrex is the company name.


 
 You are probably right, all of them have copper rods. Maybe the 6AS7GA are rare with copper rods.
  
 I just realized mine was 15 GBP for a single tube, but he did match them. My main power tubes with be Chatham, as I got so many of them, then Mullards and GE HP 6AS7GA and then for special occasions the Tung Sol 5998


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> LOL That sounds bad  First Elise, then tube rolling, this was my policy  I was new to tube, I thought to learn about them before buying. It worked for me. Now I buy with a little confidence.


 
 normally, that would be my policy also - gear, then tubes - but tube prices are on a fast track elevator; hoping that Lukasz/Feliks will not bind elise to the same elevator.
  


untilthen said:


> LR, you need to tell them that your Mullard 6080 from Langrex is special price because of a slight crack in the base, even though I can't see it in the pictures.
> 
> Langrex a few weeks ago have many different sets of Mullard 6080, all with different boxes. Price range from 15, 25, to 45 a pair. I posted a link back then and LR was asking me if the 15 ones are ok. A slight dent or crack won't affect the sound at all. They are all NOS tubes.


 
 i think that James at langrex had a pile of mullards that weren't exactly moving ... some lowball sales and this thread & bingo .. they're in demand.  100% price increase.
 instead of 15/pr they become 15/each.
 <edit> nvm; LR, you're now saying you paid 15 each?
  
 but overall, that's still a decent price when compared to fivre 6n7g which cost me $226cdn --- that's like 1/4 the price of the elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 quick, somebody whack me with a golf club ... to stop the insanity.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I could only find the Visseaux 6N7GT, not the 6N7G. I am not sure if they are joy bringers as well  They certainly will complete the collection, unfortunately not available.


 

 Let me throw a spanner in the works by saying I'm listening to the Visseaux 6A6 now and they certainly sound like whatever 'bringers' you want to call them. Even with a cheap pair of GE 6AS7G as power tubes, this setup sounds really good.


----------



## geetarman49

anybody here encounter the 'disallowed key character' error?
 about 1/2 hr ago i got locked out of head-fi threads on my firefox browser ---- no problems with ie or edge tho.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Let me throw a spanner in the works by saying I'm listening to the Visseaux 6A6 now and they certainly sound like whatever 'bringers' you want to call them. Even with a cheap pair of GE 6AS7G as power tubes, this setup sounds really good.


 

 i like the looks of this, UT ... mucho grandioso.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> normally, that would be my policy also - gear, then tubes - but tube prices are on a fast track elevator; hoping that Lukasz/Feliks will not bind elise to the same elevator.
> 
> i think that James at langrex had a pile of mullards that weren't exactly moving ... some lowball sales and this thread & bingo .. they're in demand.  100% price increase.
> instead of 15/pr they become 15/each.
> ...


 
 Whilst waiting for Elise, I started buying tubes and trying them out on my Darkvoice 336se. By the time Elise came, I have a pile of tubes ready to roll. I got Elise on the 27th Oct. It's now 25th Nov and I'm still rolling in the deep. Be very careful, Elise and tubes will do this to you.
  
 Sellers have to thank us for price appreciation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh man, I feel sorry for you that you have to pay so much for the Fivre 6N7G. It was the same with me on the Mazda 6N7G. I paid $99 a pair whereas Mordy and Mikelap paid $20 a pair. However you will be pleased with the Fivre 6N7G. I think you could have just bought the last pair unless that Italian seller have a pile of Fivre 6N7G. He has another pair of Philips Miniwatt FDD20 on sale now after I bought my pair. This seller has very interesting stuff. He thank me in Italian 'Grazie'.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> ...
> 
> Sellers have to thank us for price appreciation.
> 
> ...


 
 he should be thanking me with several tins of biscotti ... that would take a bit o' sting out of that sale. i hope he packs them well.
 just thinking about that sale makes my stomach turn ... i think i'm gonna grab a shot or two of tentacles + coke.


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> he should be thanking me with several tins of biscotti ... that would take a bit o' sting out of that sale. i hope he packs them well.
> just thinking about that sale makes my stomach turn ... i think i'm gonna grab a shot or two of tentacles + coke.



And to think he couldn't even sell them for 85€ a month ago..

I sure would like to know how this Fivre compares to my incoming brown base Fivre.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> And to think he couldn't even sell them for 85€ a month ago..
> 
> I sure would like to know how this Fivre compares to my incoming brown base Fivre.


 

 bring your elise & tubes & com'on over ... it only seems far if you look at a globe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 we can share some tentacle + coke


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> bring your elise & tubes & com'on over ... it only seems far if you look at a globe
> 
> we can share some tentacle + coke



I guess the price of the plane ticket would be about the same as a new pair of Fivre 6N7G. Where are you from anyway? US?
That bottle sure looks... Inviting?


----------



## geetarman49

i'm in canuckville --- lol.  in alberta, canada.  edmonton, to be precise.
  
 <edit> now, if you'll excuse me ... i'm off to imbibe on some kraken.


----------



## UntilThen

*Hooray Humphrey *




  
 How does *hum free* FDD20 / ECC31 sound to you? Here we have it with a *grounded 12V 6A AC adapter* (3 pin plug). *Without a separate ground wire* anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	
















 
  
 This will work with 2 FDD20 as well according to JV. No voltage regulator required unless you want to use 6BL7 tubes.
  
 Neat and tidy now. Pure silence when no music playing.

  
 No ground wire to the RCA negative input.

  
 This is the 12V 6A AC adapter I bought with Aussie plug. Get one for your own country.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> *Hooray Humphrey *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 excellent news, UT.  what phones are you listening with?  i see the he-560s are $200 off, but i'm spent.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> excellent news, UT.  what phones are you listening with?  i see the he-560s are $200 off, but i'm spent.


 
 I have Senn HD650 and HiFiman HE560.
  
 Canada...my brother lives in Canada...Toronto. Another brother lives in Phoenix Arizona.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> *Hooray Humphrey *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is most excellent news! Did you use the exact same socket as the other power supply? Just curious here. Could you take a picture of both power supplies next to each other?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> That is most excellent news! Did you use the exact same socket as the other power supply? Just curious here. Could you take a picture of both power supplies next to each other?


 

 Your wish is my command. Just a sec..have to power off my ecstasy.


----------



## UntilThen

Left is the grounded 12V 6A AC adapter. Right is the ungrounded 12V 3A adapter where I need a separate wire to RCA for grounding.
  

  
 This is the power point I connect to for both adapters. It has a independent ON/OFF switch. I am learning how to use my toe to turn it on as it is on the ground.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Left is the grounded 12V 6A AC adapter. Right is the ungrounded 12V 3A adapter where I need a separate wire to RCA for grounding.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the power point I connect to for both adapters. It has a independent ON/OFF switch. I am learning how to use my toe to turn it on as it is on the ground.


 
 When you used your other grounded power supply, was it connected to the same power point? Where is the Elise connected?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> When you used your other grounded power supply, was it connected to the same power point? Where is the Elise connected?


 

 I use both grounded and ungrounded power supply connected to the same power point. It's the second slot on the left. Picture show empty because I remove the adapters for picture taking. Elise is connected to the left most power point in the picture. The plug on the extreme right is for my glowing lava lamp. All other gear are on a separate power board.
  
 Clear?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I use both grounded and ungrounded power supply connected to the same power point. It's the second slot on the left. Picture show empty because I remove the adapters for picture taking. Elise is connected to the left most power point in the picture. The plug on the extreme right is for my glowing lava lamp. All other gear are on a separate power board.
> 
> Clear?


 
 Oh, I meant your old grounded power supply, the one that hummed no matter what.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Oh, I meant your old grounded power supply, the one that hummed no matter what.


 

 Same spot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *Hooray Humphrey *:bigsmile_face:
> How does *hum free* FDD20 / ECC31 sound to you? Here we have it with a *grounded 12V 6A AC adapter* (3 pin plug). *Without a separate ground wire* anymore.    :bigsmile_face:




Just got home from work and I too, received my 12v 6A grounded power supply...

And on my system....guess what?

Drum roll, please....

It did....

Absolutely *NOTHING*!

*Mine hums like MAD* until I *again add the third wire out to the rca jack on the back of the Elise*!

UT really does have the "magic no HUM machine"!!!

:mad:

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Just got home from work and I too, received my 12v 6A grounded power supply...
> 
> And on my system....guess what?
> 
> ...


 

 Awww that's sad. Yours should work too. When I slice off the AC adapter cable tip, there's only 2 wires. One black and one white which I connect to the positive and negative on the FDD20 adapter plates. That's all I did. The plug obviously have 3 pins so it's grounded.
  
 True, to this day none of my tubes hum.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Awww that's sad. Yours should work too. When I slice off the AC adapter cable tip, there's only 2 wires. One black and one white which I connect to the positive and negative on the FDD20 adapter plates. That's all I did. The plug obviously have 3 pins so it's grounded.
> 
> True, to this day none of my tubes hum.




Yep, I did exactly the same. Mine has one white, and one red (positive) wire, and the grounded plug.

It's okay, when the new external heat adapters come, I can add the third ground wire out of sight, and all will be fine. Before we discovered the use of the outer RCA jack on the Elise, I had ran my ground all the way to the wall outlet ground terminal, and that worked perfectly, too. So might do that again for additional "discreet" grounding. 

Not a problem, especially when the external heat adapters get here. Happy for your ditching of the third wire, UT!


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CYbD7I530cY[/VIDEO]

We're the LUCKY ones 

.


----------



## UntilThen

What is that knob thingy for on the cable just after the connection? I cut my cable after that knob. See middle of picture. Figure it must do something so left it there. Do you know?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Yep, I did exactly the same. Mine has one white, and one red (positive) wire, and the grounded plug.
> 
> It's okay, when the new external heat adapters come, I can add the third ground wire out of sight, and all will be fine. Before we discovered the use of the outer RCA jack on the Elise, I had ran my ground all the way to the wall outlet ground terminal, and that worked perfectly, too. So might do that again for additional "discreet" grounding.
> 
> Not a problem, especially when the external heat adapters get here. Happy for your ditching of the third wire, UT!


 
 I don't actually understand why the hum is there in the first place. Isn't the pins only used for heating? Does it cross paths with the other circuitry in the tube? This seems - from my limited understanding - to be the only way there'd be any hum.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> What is that knob thingy for on the cable just after the connection? I cut my cable after that knob. See middle of picture. Figure it must do something so left it there. Do you know?


 
 I wondered the same actually. I cut mine off. 
  
 Edit: Okay, so I just googled it. Apparently it isolates the signal from EM noise. Guess I shouldn't have cut mine off.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> What is that knob thingy for on the cable just after the connection? I cut my cable after that knob. See middle of picture. Figure it must do something so left it there. Do you know?




I did too...

Its a choke to help prevent interference from other devices:

http://gizmodo.com/5871162/what-do-those-mysterious-lumps-on-your-cables-do

.


----------



## Suuup

I think I'll have to find some electrical engineering courses. All of this is really interesting.


----------



## UntilThen

Ain't I glad I left the ferrite beads or choke there. I'm sure my fidelity has increase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Here's how you can install ferrite beads to your cable.
 http://products.mercola.com/ferrite-beads/ferrite_beads_howto.htm


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I wondered the same actually. I cut mine off.
> 
> Edit: Okay, so I just googled it. Apparently it isolates the signal from EM noise. Guess I shouldn't have cut mine off.




No no leave it, it will keep your cell phone from chirping in the amp.

Once you get the external heat adapter, it will be well hidden.

Suuuup, didn't you say you had to build your own computer for one class?

Also, since we know that a "common ground" will eliminate the hum...and adding the third wire (for some of us) enables the 12v system to connect it's ground side (negative) to the Elise ground (via that outer RCA Jack)...

Then before the extra ground connection, the spearate ground in the 12v supply must "compete" to try and find the common ground, and this is what makes the noise? That's my guess...

...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Listening to 5998's and Tung-Sol 7N7's and surprised how nice this is...

A small step below ECC31 in some parts of the FR, but nicer in others. Upper mids, especially sweet in the 7N7's. 

Tung-Sol all the way. 

The 7N7 is another tube that is a great bargain...can be bought cheap but sounds 'expensive'. 

.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> No no leave it, it will keep your cell phone from chirping in the amp.
> 
> Once you get the external heat adapter, it will be well hidden.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I did make my own computer. It was capable of calculating up to 15 + 15 and outputting the result. All, we got, was "Here are some transistors, make a computer"
  
 We were'nt provided with a lot of resources, so this was the best we could do with what we had. 
  
 Anyway, we didn't even touch ground. 
  
 Isn't the heating totally isolated from all of the other circuitry? As in, there is no crossover, so there is no path from the FDD20 PS to the Elise actually. Or is there? There has to be. If there isn't, it doesn't make sense that it hums. I just don't see why you would ever make a connection from the heating to the rest of the tube. 
  
 I'm really bad at explaining myself tonight. 
  
 You say they fight for ground. That makes sense, except where do they meet? I can't think of anywhere the two signals would meet, so it doesn't make sense that they'd have to fight. They obviously do meet and 'fight', I just don't get why or where.


----------



## JazzVinyl

That's MAD SCIENTIST stuff right there, Suuup! Way cool! I was going to ask if you were using SM (Surface Mount) components or not...I see you weren't. But how great!! Your my hero 

Think the separate ground is causing the noise and is jumping across the plates, trying to find that easy path to ground?

???



,


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> That's MAD SCIENTIST stuff right there, Suuup! Way cool! I was going to ask if you were using SM (Surface Mount) components or not...I see you weren't. But how great!! Your my hero
> 
> Think the separate ground is causing the noise and is jumping across the plates, trying to find that easy path to ground?
> 
> ...


 
 But how can it jump across the plates?! This boggles my mind. I'm slowly going insane over here...
  
 Glad you like the computer!


----------



## UntilThen

Here


----------



## Suuup

Okay, so I have an old laptop battery (it's actually pretty new, just the laptop is old) that runs at 11.8V. I'll try connecting it to the FDD20. Any guesses as to if there'll be hum or not? I'll have to charge it first though, so it might be about ½ an hour.


----------



## Suuup

Okay. Results are in......
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
*HUM*.......... For 5 seconds..... And then?
  
  
  
  
  
*NO HUM!!*
  
 Here's a picture!


----------



## UntilThen

Great to see that works. Get yourself a proper portable 12V battery.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> *Hooray Humphrey *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 excellent news, UT.  what phones are you listening with?  i see the he-560s are $200 off, but i'm spent.


untilthen said:


> I have Senn HD650 and HiFiman HE560.
> 
> Canada...my brother lives in Canada...Toronto. Another brother lives in Phoenix Arizona.


 

 haha ... i've lived in both places ...


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


>


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> That's MAD SCIENTIST stuff right there, Suuup! Way cool! I was going to ask if you were using SM (Surface Mount) components or not...I see you weren't. But how great!! Your my hero
> 
> Think the separate ground is causing the noise and is jumping across the plates, trying to find that easy path to ground?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


suuup said:


> But how can it jump across the plates?! This boggles my mind. I'm slowly going insane over here...
> 
> Glad you like the computer!


 
  
 i previously provided a link to a hum eliminator device - i'm not advocating for anyone to buy this, but there is some info that is germane to the issues at hand.  to wit, please read all of the text in this page  ...  http://www.graniteaudio.com/zero/page2.html.   this should clarify things & provide some additional info for people who have difficult issues with hum.
 hth,


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> excellent news, UT.  what phones are you listening with?  i see the he-560s are $200 off, but i'm spent.
> 
> haha ... i've lived in both places ...


 

 I'm using HE560 and HD650. I've posted some impressions of those headphones used with Elise and selected tubes.
  
 HE560 and Elise impressions - post #1041
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1035#post_12038786
  
 HD650 with Elise impressions - post#1352
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1350#post_12051562


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Listening to 5998's and Tung-Sol 7N7's and surprised how nice this is...
> 
> A small step below ECC31 in some parts of the FR, but nicer in others. Upper mids, especially sweet in the 7N7's.
> 
> ...


 

 7N7 and 5998 was once the joy of my life but has been eclipsed by the arrival of the 6A6, 6N7G, FDD20 / ECC31. Every now and then I still do revisit them as well as C3G and 5998 which is another killer combo.
  
 I actually quite like the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue but not the stock Svetlana 6H13C power tubes. I need to try my 'conventional' tubes again when I get around to it, like the 6N23P, 6BQ7A and 6CG7/6GU7.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> I'm using HE560 and HD650. I've posted some impressions of those headphones used with Elise and selected tubes.
> 
> HE560 and Elise impressions - post #1041
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1035#post_12038786
> ...


 

 thnx, i'll have a look in the morning ... now i'm off to catch some zzzz-zzzzzzs.
 oh man, massdrop exclusive -- fostex th-x00 on friday.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> thnx, i'll have a look in the morning ... now i'm off to catch some zzzz-zzzzzzs.
> oh man, massdrop exclusive -- fostex th-x00 on friday.


 

 Yes I saw the foster th-x00 and I'm drooling even though it's closed back. I prefer open back as I've no one to disturb around me. I mean not in my office.
  
 Don't keep eyeing other beautiful headphones. Be happy with your Stax-007 and AKG-K7XX.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 All I want is the new HD800 next year. Dang HE560 sounding so good now.
  
 Tube amp sound is for me and I believe Elise is a perfect, sensible choice for most headphones. The ability to drive high and low impedance headphones and also to use as a preamp...for $649.
  
 Plus the tubes we have here, it will transformed your life. You'll never want to shovel snow again. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Alison Krauss & Union Station Live...I just love this.


----------



## UntilThen

*An evening with NAD d1050, Elise, FDD21 / ECC30 and Tung Sol 5998 and HE560.*
  
 This setup is worthy of an evening spend listening to a whole genre of songs.
  
 The capabilities of HE560 is simply amazing. It's so natural sounding and smooth, treble is clear and extends well, midrange is forward and musical, bass is tight and controlled, extends deep and low.
  
 Elise with this compliment of tubes has complete control of the HE560, adding warm and lushness, at the same time keeping precision and timing with the fast and articulate HE560. Attack, sustain and decay is spot on here. It's hard to imagine a tube amp with such an excellent transient response and yet at the same time providing the lovely tube amp sound. It is just so enjoyable with music and never fatiguing on the ears. Bass is excellent and first class. This is high fidelity bass, tight, controlled and with impact. They will slam you when the music calls for it.
  
 It is unconceivable that an OTL tube amp would pair so well with a low inefficient (90db 32ohm) planar magnetic such as the HE560. 
  
 This is an excellent review of HE560, with comparison to LCD-X and HD800.
 http://www.hifiman.com/articles/detail/342
  
 A picture of those 3 headphones from the review.


 This is the setup I'm listening to now. Leonard Cohen voice is rugged and lovely.


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> i previously provided a link to a hum eliminator device - i'm not advocating for anyone to buy this, but there is some info that is germane to the issues at hand.  to wit, please read all of the text in this page  ...  http://www.graniteaudio.com/zero/page2.html.   this should clarify things & provide some additional info for people who have difficult issues with hum.
> hth,




"New Model #502 Ground Loop Elimination System. MSRP $660.00"

Or a one tenth of one cent length of wire - and your ground hum problems are over.

It's your choice.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Yes I saw the foster th-x00 and I'm drooling even though it's closed back. I prefer open back as I've no one to disturb around me. I mean not in my office.
> 
> Don't keep eyeing other beautiful headphones. Be happy with your Stax-007 and AKG-K7XX.
> 
> ...


 

 haahaa ...  i wish i had a 007; i hear the new ones are satisfyingly close to the 009 ... nope, just have 407.
 the k7xx is my all-rounder these days --- i use it for tv audio.
  
 i never want to shovel snow again --- it's true, but then mother nature comes around & shellacks us good.  that's the price for living in this part of canada.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This setup is worthy of an evening spend listening to a whole genre of songs.
> 
> The capabilities of HE560 is simply amazing. It's so natural sounding and smooth, treble is clear and extends well, midrange is forward and musical, bass is tight and controlled, extends deep and low.




Do you like the your HiFiman Planars' better than your Sennheiser dynamic phones?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *An evening with NAD d1050, Elise, FDD21 / ECC30 and Tung Sol 5998 and HE560.*
> 
> This setup is worthy of an evening spend listening to a whole genre of songs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...I second _*everything*_ you have said here,...unbelievable qualities in an OTL at this price - or _*much*_ more even. lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And I can feel your enjoyment here on the other side of the world..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...probably helped by what is entering my ears at this very moment - ie a return to 2031 after a session with 2x FDD20s!
  
 My first impression of the 2x 20s was WOW!...smoothed out C3g with a bit more bass - VERY impressive, and can understand JV's love of this sound. I cannot imagine any other tubes matching this performance at anywhere near the price...unless mordy's 6BL7s manage a miracle! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's detail to die for, along with great bass and exquisite treble...so why do I prefer the 20/31 combo?...
  
 First, I must give the usual caveat - ie. this finding is based on my ESS Sabre DAC, Beyer T1s and GEC CV2523 (6AS7G) power tubes...and *my ears!!*
  
 As I have mentioned before, it comes down mostly to the combination of the slight differences between these two drivers - _*after* at least _50 hrs' burn-in.
 The FDD20 has a slightly wider soundstage and more forward presentation, plus - as you mentioned recently - more upper mids/lower treble.
  
_However_, this is therefore at the cost of a certain amount of soundstage _depth_ and _height. _The result is a more 'intimate', immediate sound...which of course many prefer.
 But the ECC31's greater s/stage depth & height brings a tad more 3D 'holographic' element to the table, along with a shade more bass extension : it's these qualities that give the type of sound I _personally_ prefer...nay, have become _addicted_ to, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Once again, this is what my own system delivers - and *ONLY* after the absolutely vital *long* burn-in needed to merge the two tubes' differences so as not to be distracting...
  
 From my previous statements, hopefully it's then possible to tailor the best combination according to the rest of one's gear/ears/preferences....CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Do you like the your HiFiman Planars' better than your Sennheiser dynamic phones?


 
 I need to write a novel in response to your question JV.

 With Elise and those tubes or equivalent yes. HE560 on Schitt Modi Uber 2 and Schitt Magni Uber 2 sounded dry, lean and a polite bass. Treble is a bit annoying to my ears that has been made lazy by HD650. Tried it with JDS Lab O2+ODAC and Aune T1 too. Same thing. On a Darkvoice 336se, things get better. Treble is smoother, midrange projected and full and bass morph into Hulk but DV336se cannot really drive a low impedance HP. A conventional OTL is meant for a high impedance HP. DV also sounded raw and unpolished but has the unmistakable tube amp sound, warm and lush.
  
 Throw Else into the mix and it's a different experience. It's like Elise was made for HE560. Now the sound is smooth, midrange is sweet and engaging, treble is now revealing high notes I've not heard before and sounded very pleasing. The annoyance is gone. Bass is no longer polite. Hello.. this is now Hulk. The bass will now grab and smash when the music calls for, controlled, tight and impactful (gut wrenching) and now 'extends deep' take on a different meaning. It really means deep. Is there any other deep?
  
 Yes, it's not an easy answer JV. I need to qualify my answer in response to your question. I love my Senn HD650. With a tube amp such as Elise, it is crazily good. It scales all the way up to the clouds. However strap on a HE560 with Elise and I go ...'Are you kidding me?'. I never would have thought that my lazy, comfy ears will love another HP other than the HD650.
  
 There is only a small but significant difference and that is fit and weight. HE560 is a very comfortable planar magnetic. Weight is marginally heavier than HD650 and the ear pads caress my ears. It's soft. The clamp felt tighter though, in certain points. HD650 seems made for my head and ears. The weight is beautiful and the ear cups covers my ears completely. When I first had it it felt uncomfortable due to the new tight clamp. However now the HD650 fits like a velvet glove.
  
 So after writing 4 paragraphs, my answer is a definite YES. I like my HE560 more than my HD650 but ...I still listen with both for the fit reason. I always believe I'm a one headphone man but now it's 2. Next year it will be 3. Head-Fi is dangerous hobby...you're always itching to try new gear.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...I second _*everything*_ you have said here,...unbelievable qualities in an OTL at this price - or _*much*_ more even. lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1, I like you. You said everything I wanted to say. Saves me from racking my brains at 5am in the morning. I second everything you said there (too). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I haven't tried 2 FDD20 with 5998 but 2031 with 5998 seems like a marriage made in heaven with Elise and HE560. 
  
 I just need to borrow your GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you @Liu Junyuan for liking for my post BUT I rather hear your impression of Elise vs La Figaro 339. Now either you buy an Elise or I send my Elise to you for a comparison. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That is one comparison I needed to know the answers for.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Thank you @Liu Junyuan for liking for my post BUT I rather hear your impression of Elise vs La Figaro 339. Now either you buy an Elise or I send my Elise to you for a comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'd be really interested in this as well! La Figaro 339 was one of the other amps I considered before stumbling upon the Elise. I was just about to pull the trigger even.


----------



## Lord Raven

I just bought a 9.32 USD headphones for their quarter inch jack to at least be able to test my tubes.
  
 I am glad to report that all my 4 x Chatham 6AS7G with Gold rods, that don't even glow, are perfectly fine.. LOL Immediate impression is, a deep bass, articulate and strong, I so am craving for my HD600 to be delivered fast :|


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> I'd be really interested in this as well! La Figaro 339 was one of the other amps I considered before stumbling upon the Elise. I was just about to pull the trigger even.


 

 & this custom version looks pretty enticing, n'est-ce pas?


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> I just bought a 9.32 USD headphones for their quarter inch jack to at least be able to test my tubes.
> 
> I am glad to report that all my 4 x Chatham 6AS7G with Gold rods, that don't even glow, are perfectly fine.. LOL Immediate impression is, a deep bass, articulate and strong, I so am craving for my HD600 to be delivered fast :|


 

 LR, you have pm.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I just bought a 9.32 USD headphones for their quarter inch jack to at least be able to test my tubes.
> 
> I am glad to report that all my 4 x Chatham 6AS7G with Gold rods, that don't even glow, are perfectly fine.. LOL Immediate impression is, a deep bass, articulate and strong, I so am craving for my HD600 to be delivered fast :|


 

 With your HD600, the tubes combo of 2031 and Chatham 6AS7G would be heavenly. If you need more excitement, use 5998 instead but you should be very happy with either power tubes. For that matter Mullard 6080 will sound gorgeous too. As well you have the GE 6AS7GA.
  
 You have almost identical power tubes as me but I have a few more others.
  
 You said you're getting Visseaux 6N7G. That will be a nice variation to the 2031. Man you have no idea what is in store for you. Why did you stay so long with the the stock tubes? You've been eating spaghetti everyday and missing the lobsters and caviar. 
  
 FYI, Chatham 6AS7G does glow. There...


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> & this custom version looks pretty enticing, n'est-ce pas?


 
 That is a work of art. I would have preferred LF to have the 6AS7 and 6SN7 compliment of tubes. Just more options for drivers.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> *An evening with NAD d1050, Elise, FDD21 / ECC30 and Tung Sol 5998 and HE560.*
> 
> This setup is worthy of an evening spend listening to a whole genre of songs.
> 
> ...


 
 that's why i initially hesitated on elise when it was announced & prior to its release -- my experience with he560 with the modded asl otl with single 6as7g was a disaster  ... that's why i went the route of stax.  had these impressions been available earlier the elise & 560 might very well have been on my rack today.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 Please, let me know if this is a good pair of 5998. And I request everyone not to bid on this one, I don't have this tube. And the last one I bought was lost in the mail. 
  
 Thank you 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331711819576?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI331711819576.N36.S1.R1.TR2


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> That is a work of art. I would have preferred LF to have the 6AS7 and 6SN7 compliment of tubes. Just more options for drivers.


 

 on their site, they state that they are willing to do custom jobs, so a change of driver to accommodate 6sn7 family is probably not out of the question but i don't know what they would charge & whether or not it would remain 'affordable'.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Please, let me know if this is a good pair of 5998. And I request everyone not to bid on this one, I don't have this tube. And the last one I bought was lost in the mail.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes it's good. Similar to mine but need a bit of clean up. Tubes are 1967. Mine are 1966. It's hard to tell if they are trouble free on Elise but you'll be safe with returns plus this pair tested very well. 
  
 Good luck. May the force be with you.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> on their site, they state that they are willing to do custom jobs, so a change of driver to accommodate 6sn7 family is probably not out of the question but i don't know what they would charge & whether or not it would remain 'affordable'.


 

 Hahaha, even Lukasz aka Feliks Audio will do a custom job for me. Lukasz told me he will look after me should I be interested in any of their other amps or custom made ones.
  
 Have you seen their other stereo tube amps? They look gorgeous. Those guys have been in this business for quite a long time. 
  
 Look at this beauty.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Please, let me know if this is a good pair of 5998. And I request everyone not to bid on this one, I don't have this tube. And the last one I bought was lost in the mail.
> 
> ...


 

 the jackson is an emissions tester of sorts --- the readings look good & solid.
 if you weren't bidding i would definitely be bidding on this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 i have also purchased from eskimofridge before w/o incident.  so yes, this gets my thumbs up


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Please, let me know if this is a good pair of 5998. And I request everyone not to bid on this one, I don't have this tube. And the last one I bought was lost in the mail.
> 
> ...


 
 Are the green labeled ones particularly rare? I'd imagine that pair would sky rocket within the last couple of minutes. I paid 165 $ including shipping for my pair.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


>


 

 The green ones are 1960s whereas the white lettering ones are 1950s. Green being newer are generally in better condition and get snap up fast. White lettering ones are older and some are in more used condition. There are exceptions though.
  
 As I said I have both and I cannot tell if they sounded different. So just find a good condition pair.
  
 $165 for a used pair is reasonable.
  
 I paid $234 for my new pair. Gleaming new when it came in a plastic food container.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


>


 

 rare is a relative term ... i don't think there's a real rarity in terms of production was so limited that they only made a couple of thousand tubes rare.  i think rarity because people are hoarding them so they don't often see the light of day on ebay until the price goes sky high, sort of rarity.


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> rare is a relative term ... i don't think there's a real rarity in terms of production was so limited that they only made a couple of thousand tubes rare.  i think rarity because people are hoarding them so they don't often see the light of day on ebay until the price goes sky high, sort of rarity.


 
 That makes sense. People SHOULD be hoarding them, they're absolutely amazing tubes!


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> That makes sense. People SHOULD be hoarding them, they're absolutely amazing tubes!


 

 now, you're making me want to bid on them ...  but i already told LR that i won't (at least on this set).


----------



## UntilThen

Tubes should be enjoyed. Why hoard them? If you wanted it as investment, you should be doing that in stocks and shares instead.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Tubes should be enjoyed. Why hoard them? If you wanted it as investment, you should be doing that in stocks and shares instead.


 
 Because tubes don't last forever. So rather pay 160 $ x2 now than 160 now and 320 in a couple of years.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Because tubes don't last forever. So rather pay 160 $ x2 now than 160 now and 320 in a couple of years.


 

 That is true. Back in 2005 when this was compiled, prices were already regarded as high. Can you imagine how much they have skyrocket now? By 2030, most people would have to be content with tubes made in Russia or China.
  
 And that's just mainly 6SN7 ...other tubes are appreciating as well. So my 8 FDD20 will be worth a fortune in 20 years time. Sigh I've to pass it on to my son.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 All said though, I think there are a lot of tubes out there still. Even the NOS ones from 40s, 50s and 60s. There's no shortage. Just that price will keep going up.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> Because tubes don't last forever. So rather pay 160 $ x2 now than 160 now and 320 in a couple of years.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> That is true. Back in 2005 when this was compiled, prices were already regarded as high. Can you imagine how much they have skyrocket now? By 2030, most people would have to be content with tubes made in Russia or China.
> 
> And that's just mainly 6SN7 ...other tubes are appreciating as well. So my 8 FDD20 will be worth a fortune in 20 years time. Sigh I've to pass it on to my son.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread


 
  
 this is so true ... in the early '90s (or was that late '80s?) while working for a large multinational in toronto, i was offered 12v windmill getter tubes direct from the manufacturer (so, bona fide nos) @ $10.   but my knowledge of tubes, tube types was non-existent at the time ... so i demurred & the rest is history.
  
 <edit>  & why aren't there black friday offerings on tubes ??


----------



## UntilThen

Alright how do I pack Elise up nicely and put it under the Christmas tree with a note to myself. This is my Christmas present. All I did was test it, burn it, tube roll it to make sure it's working well before I open it up on Christmas Eve to drink Chilled Eggnog with Angostura while playing my favourite music.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> LR, you have pm.




PM replied


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> With your HD600, the tubes combo of 2031 and Chatham 6AS7G would be heavenly. If you need more excitement, use 5998 instead but you should be very happy with either power tubes. For that matter Mullard 6080 will sound gorgeous too. As well you have the GE 6AS7GA.
> 
> You have almost identical power tubes as me but I have a few more others.
> 
> ...




I am going to have a mind blowing experience for sure with HD 600 and all the tubes I'm acquiring, for example I do have 4 x GE 6AS7GA with gold blend coming my way lol You're right, I'm getting the French beauty Visseaux 6SN7GT  I also have Fiver 6N7G and Mazda 6N7 tubes lol

You're right Chatham 6AS7G does glow but the gold rods don't lol


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Yes it's good. Similar to mine but need a bit of clean up. Tubes are 1967. Mine are 1966. It's hard to tell if they are trouble free on Elise but you'll be safe with returns plus this pair tested very well.
> 
> Good luck. May the force be with you.




Thank you UT  

If God willing, this pair will be mine.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> the jackson is an emissions tester of sorts --- the readings look good & solid.
> if you weren't bidding i would definitely be bidding on this :veryevil:
> 
> i have also purchased from eskimofridge before w/o incident.  so yes, this gets my thumbs up




Thanks bro, this is coming from Canada  I'll imagine you sent me these..


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Alright how do I pack Elise up nicely and put it under the Christmas tree with a note to myself. This is my Christmas present. All I did was test it, burn it, tube roll it to make sure it's working well before I open it up on Christmas Eve to drink Chilled Eggnog with Angostura while playing my favourite music.




And I thought we were going out on Christmas lol


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I am going to have a mind blowing experience for sure with HD 600 and all the tubes I'm acquiring, for example I do have 4 x GE 6AS7GA with gold blend coming my way lol You're right, I'm getting the French beauty Visseaux 6SN7GT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LR, HD600 and HD650 are good but pretty soon you need a HOM (Headphone of the month) to complement that. You need a state of the art super revealing headphone to tap all the goodness of Elise and those gorgeous tubes. No? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Get a HD800 or HE560 or T1 or Ether or LCD-X/2/3 or HE1000.


----------



## UntilThen

What you REALLY want is this. These are speakers on your head. Guarantee fashion statement too. Just try walking down the street with that. It's a cheap $5495 only.
 Btw this didn't make Tyll Hertsens's Wall of Fame because of the price and helmet contraption. So stick with the Senn HD800.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> And I thought we were going out on Christmas lol


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> LR, HD600 and HD650 are good but pretty soon you need a HOM (Headphone of the month) to complement that. You need a state of the art super revealing headphone to tap all the goodness of Elise and those gorgeous tubes. No?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i do believe LR deserves to go for the massdrop virgin release of fostex th-x00.  i believe it will be a winner & the price will never be this low again (famous last words).


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> i do believe LR deserves to go for the massdrop virgin release of fostex th-x00.  i believe it will be a winner & the price will never be this low again (famous last words).


 

 No no no open back not close back. He is a soundstage addict. Maybe this if he wants a bit more excitement than the HD600. DT880 600ohms black on Massdrop for $239.99. What a price..amazing.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, why do you want to empty my pockets? LOL Don't forget, HD 600 was once Sennheiser ' s flagship headphone  

I'll wait for some supernatural technology to emerge, I saw a headphone where digital signal is fed straight to your brain, no drivers lol

Your're right HD 800 is going to blow my mind off but next year, God willing


----------



## UntilThen

LR, just messing with you. HD600 will make you happy for a long time. This hobby needs patience to attain nirvana. 

I'm back to my bookshelf speakers today but with the added 12" subwoofer.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> PM replied


 

 & info received along with new pm .. haha.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> LR, just messing with you. HD600 will make you happy for a long time. This hobby needs patience to attain nirvana.
> 
> I'm back to my bookshelf speakers today but with the added 12" subwoofer.


 

 the fact that we are here ... alludes to a shortage of patience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Alright how do I pack Elise up nicely and put it under the Christmas tree with a note to myself. This is my Christmas present. All I did was test it, burn it, tube roll it to make sure it's working well before I open it up on Christmas Eve to drink Chilled Eggnog with Angostura while playing my favourite music.


 
 That looks incredible! I love pretty much all dairy products. Also, the recipe is recursive? I have to add eggnog to make eggnog? How do I get the first eggnog? I want to make this for the weekend. How have I never heard of eggnog?


----------



## UntilThen

I first heard of Eggnog in the movie 'The Family Man' by Nicholas Cage and Tea Leoni. I'm a romantic and this movie touch me. What if you had a 2nd chance, what would you have done? Think about it (your life and especially your head-fi gear) and watch the movie please and think about eggnog. If you feel a tug at your emotional heart I understand. I do...here's a tissue.


----------



## Lord Raven

What do you guys think about demagnetizing vacuum tubes?
  
 This article says it does nothing:
  
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/49219-tubes-magnetic-fields.html
  
 These guys think that it works wonders:
  
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/52844-proof-demagnetizing-tubes-works.html
  
 I am confused, what should I do?


----------



## aqsw

My last email from Lucasz, he said shipping Monday or Tuesday. Still nothing!:mad:


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> What do you guys think about demagnetizing vacuum tubes?
> 
> This article says it does nothing:
> 
> ...


 

 do you currently prefer some tubes over others?  do you not agree that those same tubes are lauded in these thread(s) or do you disagree & find no difference between your most expensive & what others call run of the mill tubes?  were you able to perform these assessments w/o demagnetizing?
  
 i think you've found your answer.
  
 i do agree, however, that demagnetising used moving coil cartridges can be efficacious.


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,
  
 You may want to try this as well:
  




 And then there is the cryogenic treatment:
  
 "It concerns me that the vacuum tube industry today is currently on a path of rebranding tubes under the names of once great manufacturers and cheap marketing gimmicks such as tube dampers, tube coolers and now cryo-treatment – anything but real engineering it seems. I have several boxes of tubes I’ve rejected over the years because of subjective failures such as noise and microphony. I’m as motivated as anyone else to ‘fix’ them. It would be a dream to be able to somehow restore them to optimum performance. But that’s what it will always be, a dream. The bottom line is that cryogenic treatment will not make up for inferior materials or defects in tube construction. If you’re purchasing tubes, a better investment would be tubes from a reputable vendor that just tests, matches and guarantees them. Better still, seek out *genuine* N.O.S. tubes made by the likes of Mullard, Philips and others if you can find them."
  
 Here is the link:
  
 http://www.effectrode.com/cryogenic-treatment-tubes-engineers-perspective/


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> My last email from Lucasz, he said shipping Monday or Tuesday. Still nothing!:mad:




Wow, lets hope he can get it mailed by Friday, of this week 'eh?

.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> My last email from Lucasz, he said shipping Monday or Tuesday. Still nothing!


 
 Yea, he said the same to me. Monday or Tuesday! And yet, he didn't ship them until Friday. At least she is worth the wait!


----------



## JazzVinyl

2x FDD20 still rules, around here


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> 2x FDD20 still rules, around here


 
 That is just filters, right? It looks really good! I can't imagine anyone being capable of drawing that well. 
  
 I have to say, the 2x FDD20 intrigues me. I've been running the 2031 combo for a couple of days now, and while I can certainly hear that this combo is special, the soundstage just isn't coherent for me. I'll give it more burntime, but I really don't see this being solved, as the problem mostly lies on the ECC31 side. I greatly prefer the sound of the FDD20 right now.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> My last email from Lucasz, he said shipping Monday or Tuesday. Still nothing!


 

 aqsw, I feel your pain but at least you know that you'll be getting Elise before Christmas. Have you got your Liquid Carbon yet?


----------



## UntilThen

I finally got my Adele 25 and am spinning it now.
  


 ...and onto the 2nd song and loving it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> That is just filters, right? It looks really good! I can't imagine anyone being capable of drawing that well.
> 
> I have to say, the 2x FDD20 intrigues me. I've been running the 2031 combo for a couple of days now, and while I can certainly hear that this combo is special, the soundstage just isn't coherent for me. I'll give it more burntime, but I really don't see this being solved, as the problem mostly lies on the ECC31 side. I greatly prefer the sound of the FDD20 right now.




Yep, just filters in the Olympus Cam...

And yes, the sound stage is better in FDD20, imho. 

The ECC31 munges things together (not in a bad way, the clarity is outstanding, but the air and space between instruments is not so good in ECC31).

Again, you show you have an excellent ear, Suuup  

,


----------



## JazzVinyl

Know we have a bunch of female singer aficionados...

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ3DO3U2TaQ[/VIDEO]

Roberta Flack doing Beatles covers...

The whole album is GOOD...!,


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Yep, just filters in the Olympus Cam...
> 
> And yes, the sound stage is better in FDD20, imho.
> 
> ...


 
 That is a perfect description! It is exactly how I hear it. At first, I thought there might be a difference between my ears. I've already started losing hearing.. My friends keep joking that I should get hearing aids with tubes.
 Anyway, I tried changing the position of the FDD20 and ECC31. My right ear might be a tad weaker than my left, but it isn't much. The soundstage still seems incoherent, and the FDD20 more airy than the ECC31. Anyway, I'll keep rolling the combo, both to burn it in more, but also because I actually really like the sound. Even though it - to me - has an incoherent soundstage, it more than makes up for it with a delightful sound. This is still to be considered as preliminary impressions, as I haven't really given it a critical listen yet, except for the soundstage. All I can say is, it is very good, despite its flaws!


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> aqsw, I feel your pain but at least you know that you'll be getting Elise before Christmas. Have you got your Liquid Carbon yet?




The Carbon is in transit.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> The Carbon is in transit.


 
  
 Hi Aqsw,

 Good. You'll find that when Lukasz says it's Mon or Tue, then it's already happened. Except he hasn't got back to you via email yet. That was the case with mine. Very soon you'll have 2 amps to listen to and to burn in. I think your Christmas is going to be a very joyous one.
  
 I've read some initial impressions (if you can call that impressions - too early days I guess) of the LC in their thread. I've been on the path of SS amps before, may be not what you consider LC standard but nevertheless very neutral and power capable amp. After a stint with DV336se and now Elise, I know I will not return to SS amp. For me it's tube sound cos I just love the organic juices. Pure apples, sultanas, oranges, mangoes, kiwi fruits, etc all blend in.
  
 Anyhoo, I'm waiting to hear your thorough impressions of the LCD2.2 and Ether with Elise and I want a detail report of Elise vs LC 5 days before Christmas on my desk.
  
 Your pal down under,
  
 UT.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> That is a perfect description! It is exactly how I hear it. At first, I thought there might be a difference between my ears. I've already started losing hearing.. My friends keep joking that I should get hearing aids with tubes.
> Anyway, I tried changing the position of the FDD20 and ECC31. My right ear might be a tad weaker than my left, but it isn't much. The soundstage still seems incoherent, and the FDD20 more airy than the ECC31. Anyway, I'll keep rolling the combo, both to burn it in more, but also because I actually really like the sound. Even though it - to me - has an incoherent soundstage, it more than makes up for it with a delightful sound. This is still to be considered as preliminary impressions, as I haven't really given it a critical listen yet, except for the soundstage. All I can say is, it is very good, despite its flaws!


 

 Sup there is such a thing call flawed perfection. It's said that genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. Likewise in the world of head-fi, audio nirvana is 99% chemistry concoction and 1% pure chance. So you're going to mix and match not just tubes but also DAC, amp and headphones. Every week there should be the mandatory ear cleansing. I.e put a tiny vacuum cleaner through it. Then we need to sieve out the pile of music CDs and make sure they are all audiophile recordings of the DSD playable on the SACD players. When we have done all that, we then sit down with a glass of wine and hit the play button. If it doesn't work, we repeat that process again, and again and again.
  
 One of the acronyms I pick up in this forum is YMMV. So that is a good rule. As always in all opinions, it's your milage may vary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So if a set of tubes doesn't work for you then move on to another set. I don't expect everyone in this thread to have the same taste and likes in the sound we hear. We're not machines. We're all wonderful individuals and artists. So at the end of this tube rolling class (which is the year 2031) I expect everyone here to come up with a completely different pair of favourite driver and power tubes for Elise. Just make sure you don't come back with light bulbs !!!.
  
 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  




  
 P/S all said in fun and jest.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Sup there is such a thing call flawed perfection. It's said that genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. Likewise in the world of head-fi, audio nirvana is 99% chemistry concoction and 1% pure chance. So you're going to mix and match not just tubes but also DAC, amp and headphones. Every week there should be the mandatory ear cleansing. I.e put a tiny vacuum cleaner through it. Then we need to sieve out the pile of music CDs and make sure they are all audiophile recordings of the DSD playable on the SACD players. When we have done all that, we then sit down with a glass of wine and hit the play button. If it doesn't work, we repeat that process again, and again and again.
> 
> One of the acronyms I pick up in this forum is YMMV. So that is a good rule. As always in all opinions, it's your milage may vary.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I agree entirely. Maybe I should've added a YMMV, but everyone is saying it all the time, so I didn't think it necessary. It is implied in my every post. Everything I say, is _my _subjective experience, and what _I _think is correct for _me_. This will be my disclaimer. I don't claim to hold a universal truth. 
  
 As a sidenote, I make a similar disclaimer whenever I do groupwork. If no one takes the lead, I will, and I will say a lot of stuff. A lot of it will be wrong, so just correct me when I say something wrong. Had one group, where no one took any initiative, so I did. Just about everything I said turned out to be wrong - and they knew, but did not correct me. Why??!
  
 It's not the same with audio though, as only *I* am hearing what *I*'m hearing.


----------



## Suuup

I've been testing the Aune S16 a bit. The DAC part of it seems good. Well, the only competitor here is my old Asus Xonar U7, and it's not even a contest at all. I guess I can't really know for sure, but it does sound very good at least.
  
 Now for the headphone amp part of the Aune. I've never heard a high end SS amp before, but if it's anything like this, then I'm not ever going there. It sounds dry and boring. It makes me appreciate the Elise *even **more*. As if that was even possible, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

I was talking about myself.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I was talking about myself.


 
 I'm getting confused now. You started you post with the word 'Sup'. Anyway, my post was just a general disclaimer. It can be hard to decode intentions over text.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've been testing the Aune S16 a bit. The DAC part of it seems good. Well, the only competitor here is my old Asus Xonar U7, and it's not even a contest at all. I guess I can't really know for sure, but it does sound very good at least.
> 
> Now for the headphone amp part of the Aune. I've never heard a high end SS amp before, but if it's anything like this, then I'm not ever going there. It sounds dry and boring. It makes me appreciate the Elise *even **more*. As if that was even possible, lol.


 

 Yes in the link I provided on the Aune S16 appreciation thread, it was compared against the likes of Gustard DAC-X12 and Audio GD NFB-1 and found to be more musical than those.  It has certainly a very good feedback from those few who own and use it. I think a properly executed DAC capable of 384 will see you long into the future. It should be a big improvement over your Asus Xonar U7.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm getting confused now. You started you post with the word 'Sup'. Anyway, my post was just a general disclaimer. It can be hard to decode intentions over text.


 

 Sorry for the confusion. I did a lot of tubes review. I just wanted it to be clear it is by no means the de facto standard. It's my opinion. That's what I'm saying. I still stand by my impressions though and if they change, I'll make it known.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Sorry for the confusion. I did a lot of tubes review. I just wanted it to be clear it is by no means the de facto standard. It's my opinion. That's what I'm saying. I still stand by my impressions though and if they change, I'll make it known.


 
 Ah yes, that is what I meant. I absolutely believe your impressions, even though they differ from mine. No one is _right _in the world of audio. Everyone hears thing differently. 
  
 I think we agree, though I'm still a little confused..


----------



## UntilThen

I rather we end up with variations rather than everyone having the same tubes with similar gear. It will be more fun if we are different. There are a lot of tubes out there that's still not explored for Elise. We have more to share down the track.
  
 I compile a list of my favourite tubes within the price range I can afford. This list has been changed a few times since I started. 2031 is just one of them.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I rather we end up with variations rather than everyone having the same tubes with similar gear. It will be more fun if we are different. There are a lot of tubes out there that's still not explored for Elise. We have more to share down the track.
> 
> I compile a list of my favourite tubes within the price range I can afford. This list has been changed a few times since I started. 2031 is just one of them.


 
 Just FYI, I still rank 2031 the highest out of all my setups. I guess it's not really fair that I'm mostly pointing out the bad stuff, when there's so much more good stuff. I'm just holding it back until they have burned in some more. 
  
 2031 beats 2x ECC31,
 2031 beats 2x 6N7G Visseaux,
 2031 beats 2x 6SN7GTB Tungsol,
 2031 beats 2x 6F8G RCA.
  
 I don't just run the combo to burn it in. I run it because I genuinely enjoy it!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Just FYI, I still rank 2031 the highest out of all my setups. I guess it's not really fair that I'm mostly pointing out the bad stuff, when there's so much more good stuff. I'm just holding it back until they have burned in some more.
> 
> 2031 beats 2x ECC31,
> 2031 beats 2x 6N7G Visseaux,
> ...


 

 That's what I call flawed perfection. I score 2031 higher than my Mazda, Visseaux and Fivre by 0.1
  
 It is close between those tubes but there's something there (2031) I can't quite pinpoint which makes me prefer it. It's the overall sound even if it's contaminated lol.
 There's a clarification though. I like 2031 with the brightish sounding HE560. It smooths it out. With the HD650 I have a preference for the French and Italian tubes. So for me
 it depends on which headphone I use. 2031 does not come as 1st choice in all scenarios for me. This is why I invest in a lot of tubes. Tubes for all occasions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I look at your preliminary results and they seem to match my impressions which is worrisome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We could both be wrong.,,hahahaha.
  
 To tell you the truth, I was looking for every possible way not to like the 2031 when I first started. I like symmetry. So this odd ball is out of convention for me initially. Now, I just
 care about the sound that appeal to me. I don't even wear eye patch anymore.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's what I call flawed perfection. I score 2031 higher than my Mazda, Visseaux and Fivre by 0.1
> 
> It is close between those tubes but there's something there (2031) I can't quite pinpoint which makes me prefer it. It's the overall sound even if it's contaminated lol.
> There's a clarification though. I like 2031 *with the brightish sounding HE560*. It smooths it out. With the HD650 I have a preference for the French and Italian tubes. So for me
> ...


 
 Which again fits with my experience, as the T1's a very bright.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Which again fits with my experience, as the T1's a very bright.


 

 However, try 2 FDD20 with 5998. JV loves it but he could be the odd ball too LOL. Just kidding. I'm going to try it for sure when my adapters and Philips etched FDD20 arrives. I think or I have a hunch this pairing could be good. It better be... I just bought a new hum free 12V AC Adapter.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> However, try 2 FDD20 with 5998. JV loves it but he could be the odd ball too LOL. Just kidding. I'm going to try it for sure when my adapters and Philips etched FDD20 arrives. I think or I have a hunch this pairing could be good. It better be... I just bought a new hum free 12V AC Adapter.


 
 Wait why did you buy another one? You can just use the same one for both tubes. 
  
 I want to try it, but the adapters are quite expensive. I'll get around to it eventually, but for now I am satisfied.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Wait why did you buy another one? You can just use the same one for both tubes.
> 
> I want to try it, but the adapters are quite expensive. I'll get around to it eventually, but for now I am satisfied.


 

 That's the one that I just bought and arrives yesterday or day before. The grounded power supply that is hum free I mean.
  
 I thought 2 ECC31 will suit you too if you find the T1 overly bright. ECC31 with 5998 in that scenario will be a knockout.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's the one that I just bought and arrives yesterday or day before. The grounded power supply that is hum free I mean.
> 
> I thought 2 ECC31 will suit you too if you find the T1 overly bright. ECC31 with 5998 in that scenario will be a knockout.


 
 That's what I ran until one of the 5998 broke. Then I switched to the Visseaux 6N7G, and then again to the 2031 combo, when I made it work. 
  
 Edit: Not break per se, but it started crackling more and more, getting louder and louder.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> That's what I ran until one of the 5998 broke. Then I switched to the Visseaux 6N7G, and then again to the 2031 combo, when I made it work.
> 
> Edit: Not break per se, but it started crackling more and more, getting louder and louder.


 

 After a day spent in the lounge with speakers and Elise with Fivre 6A6 and 5998, i'm now back in the office with HE560, 2031 and a pair of cheap GE 6AS7G. I really like this sound. HE560 becomes more organic and fleshy. This certainly sounds better than the HD650.
  
 I'm using the cheaper GE 6AS7G during this period of burn in for my driver tubes. Surprisingly there's not much lacking...


----------



## UntilThen

Exquisite ...2 ECC31 / GE 6AS7G with HE560.
  
 Don't toss out your ECC31 yet. Great tubes. Certainly make the HE560 sound glorious.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Exquisite ...2 ECC31 / GE 6AS7G with HE560.
> 
> Don't toss out your ECC31 yet. Great tubes. Certainly make the HE560 sound glorious.


 
 Oh they aren't going anywhere. If anything, I'm looking for more.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> do you currently prefer some tubes over others?  do you not agree that those same tubes are lauded in these thread(s) or do you disagree & find no difference between your most expensive & what others call run of the mill tubes?  were you able to perform these assessments w/o demagnetizing?
> 
> i think you've found your answer.
> 
> i do agree, however, that demagnetising used moving coil cartridges can be efficacious.


 
 I cannot answer any of these questions, why? Mainly because I don't have a decent pair of headphones to judge 
  
 And right now I only have Chatham 6AS7G power tubes, my driver tubes are stuck in transit and I still have to figure out what adapters and PS to use.
  
 This hobby has took my sleep and my money and my peace away!


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Mordy Bro,
  
 I just read the entire article, thanks for sharing, also reading more about Mullard factory and tube construction. Cyro-treatment is fake. I was just talking about the demagnetization. I could not really find a sold article like this one. 
  
 I am new to tubes, I still don't get most of the tube construction terms, it's still hard for me to pick the right tubes from wrong by look at the test results and identify them visually.
  
 I am learning everyday, and I have come a long way from July when I received Elise and this is October and I have a lot of decent tubes in my inventory.
  
 However, I am in the audio industry for a long time and can clearly pick of someone is selling snake oil, genuine serpent as you just said  haha
  
 Thanks once again!
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> You may want to try this as well:
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

If someone asks me about my next headphones, I would say: 
  
http://www.audiozenith.com/ 
  
 And I so want this either: 
  
http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen


----------



## nephilim

Desperately waiting to hear from Lukasz...
  
 In the meantime this fellow has arrived:
  


 20V, up to 5A. Passive cooled PS, hence no fan which would add extra noise. It does work with the FDD20 and will hopefully make the pair of Sylvania 6BL7GT glow... Once they arrive... and #11 comes back to daddy


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> That is a perfect description! It is exactly how I hear it. At first, I thought there might be a difference between my ears. I've already started losing hearing.. My friends keep joking that I should get hearing aids with tubes.
> Anyway, I tried changing the position of the FDD20 and ECC31. My right ear might be a tad weaker than my left, but it isn't much. The soundstage still seems incoherent, and the FDD20 more airy than the ECC31. Anyway, I'll keep rolling the combo, both to burn it in more, but also because I actually really like the sound. Even though it - to me - has an incoherent soundstage, it more than makes up for it with a delightful sound. This is still to be considered as preliminary impressions, as I haven't really given it a critical listen yet, except for the soundstage. All I can say is, it is very good, despite its flaws!


 
  
 Hi Suuup.
  
 I hear you...and will be the first to agree about the soundstage. They are indeed different individually, and _different_ is the word I use for their combination. But as the brain adjusts to this difference in what we are hearing, I firmly believe this 'new' experience is precisely what takes things to a different plane...but perhaps not for everyone, lol! -
 I liken this principle (loosely!) to the brain changing from a linear, 'logical' way of thinking to a more 'lateral', creative one.
  
 However, it's interesting that although for you it appears 'incoherent', you still "really like the sound" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I suspect that as you become more accustomed to this new presentation, you may well come to like it a lot more - as did I and UT!...(and I'm still sure you will also notice less of a difference as the FDD20, especially, burns in further).
  
 But, of course, in the final analysis it comes down purely to personal preference, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...wouldn't do for everyone to be the same, that's for sure!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so long as everyone ENJOYS!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

WOW, that looks super badass  Congratulations, and good luck with Elise 
  
 Edit: What is it plugged into, and share links to both devices.
  
 Quote:


nephilim said:


> Desperately waiting to hear from Lukasz...
> 
> In the meantime this fellow has arrived:
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Desperately waiting to hear from Lukasz...
> 
> In the meantime this fellow has arrived:
> 
> 20V, up to 5A. Passive cooled PS, hence no fan which would add extra noise. It does work with the FDD20 and will hopefully make the pair of Sylvania 6BL7GT glow... Once they arrive... and #11 comes back to daddy


 
 Now that's what I call a power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My next purchase even if it's to power the Christmas Tree because it's so cool.


----------



## nephilim

@Lord Raven This black box in the background is a Furman AC 210 Power Conditioner. It has two outlets, activated by a common switch. Very convenient to control amp and power supply by just one action. The blue cable is the cord for the amp. DIY from better components back in the days when I was told that a high quality power cord can eliminate hum
  
 The PS is still a budget one ($100 class) but should be enough to feed the heaters. It is grounded and should cause no hum issues *fingers crossed*


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Suuup.
> 
> I hear you...and will be the first to agree about the soundstage. They are indeed different individually, and _different_ is the word I use for their combination. But as the brain adjusts to this difference in what we are hearing, I firmly believe this 'new' experience is precisely what takes things to a different plane...but perhaps not for everyone, lol! -
> I liken this principle (loosely!) to the brain changing from a linear, 'logical' way of thinking to a more 'lateral', creative one.
> ...


 

 Thanks to the young ones (nephilim and Suuup) who have more acute hearing and JV for supplying this youtube link of this song...
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmuT_fTEzZ4
  
 I'm now able to detect the difference I hear in the song using FDD20/ECC31 quite clearly. I started out with FDD20 on the left and ECC31 on the right. In this setup and with this song, I could hear an instrument playing on the left quite pronouncely. It just appeared as being positioned on the left though. Then I switch the FDD20 to the right and ECC31 to the left and now that instrument is more centred. It seems to have shifted.
  
 The best part is I love it both ways 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 I wouldn't call it different soundstage. It's more of a tonal range (FR) difference but somehow gelling together to make it pleasing to my ears. I'm now smiling broadly because I see how using 2 different tubes but that are quite similar in gain, have produce a result that is more pleasing to me than if I use 2 ECC31. I guess I became a sound engineer by tossing in these tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 thanks to H1 for discovering it.
  
 Certainly our ears and brains are marvellous. They adapt to the sound they hear. If the sound outcome is unpleasant I'd have been running away faster than Usain Bolt but I'm sitting here and loving it on my HE560 while my other French and Italian drivers are sitting in front of me, staring at me and yelling out...'When's my turn????'  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 
  
 FDD20 now on the right.


----------



## UntilThen

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustable-Variable-Power-Supply-Switch-Mode-DC-30V-5A-Fan-cooling-240V-OZ-WRT-/261602796016?hash=item3ce8bde1f0:g:9AAAAOxymcdRgdT3http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustable-Variable-Power-Supply-Switch-Mode-DC-30V-5A-Fan-cooling-240V-OZ-WRT-/261602796016?hash=item3ce8bde1f0:g:9AAAAOxymcdRgdT3Quote: 





nephilim said:


> @Lord Raven This black box in the background is a Furman AC 210 Power Conditioner. It has two outlets, activated by a common switch. Very convenient to control amp and power supply by just one action. The blue cable is the cord for the amp. DIY from better components back in the days when I was told that a high quality power cord can eliminate hum
> 
> The PS is still a budget one ($100 class) but should be enough to feed the heaters. It is grounded and should cause no hum issues *fingers crossed*


 

 Nep did the red and black cables for connecting to the FDD20 come with it?
  
 Think I will get this. Looks great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustable-Variable-Power-Supply-Switch-Mode-DC-30V-5A-Fan-cooling-240V-OZ-WRT-/261602796016?hash=item3ce8bde1f0:g:9AAAAOxymcdRgdT3


----------



## Suuup

I just got back from the post office.... I really thought I lived in Denmark, but right now it seems to be the KSA.
  
 They lost my Fivre 6N7G brown-base. 
  
 I don't know if I'm angry or sad.. Probably both. 3x Fivres were supposed to be here with me right now, to be enjoyed in the Elise. I don't really know what to do. I've used weeks, trying to hunt down those elusive tubes. I could probably get my money back, but that doesn't really matter. I want the Fivres, not my money. That's why I bought them, because I find the Fivres more valuable than my money. 
  
 I got my golden ECC31 adapters though.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I just got back from the post office.... I really thought I lived in Denmark, but right now it seems to be the KSA.
> 
> They lost my Fivre 6N7G brown-base.
> 
> ...


 

 How did they lose it? Did the tracking show it reach Denmark? If it did, it has to be in a Post office somewhere or a postie is enjoying it on his tube amp.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> How did they lose it? Did the tracking show it reach Denmark? If it did, it has to be in a Post office somewhere or a postie is enjoying it on his tube amp.


 
 Tracking says it was at my doorstep yesterday, but I was not awake to receive it. Now it should be at my post office, and the tracking says it is, but the blonde girl behind the counter said there was no package there for me. She wrote down my number and said they'd call me if they found the package. 
  
 Now that I think about it, it could be an elaborate way to get my number.. I just don't think this is the case..


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Tracking says it was at my doorstep yesterday, but I was not awake to receive it. Now it should be at my post office, and the tracking says it is, but the blonde girl behind the counter said there was no package there for me. She wrote down my number and said they'd call me if they found the package.
> 
> Now that I think about it, it could be an elaborate way to get my number.. I just don't think this is the case..


 

 Yup the blonde girl will call you for a date soon. I just think the package hasn't make it way back to the Post Office...so be patient.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yup the blonde girl will call you for a date soon. I just think the package hasn't make it way back to the Post Office...so be patient.


 
 The package arrived at the postoffice at 13 o clock today. That's 1 pm for you Americans.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Even though you say that your comments on different taste were said in jest I would like to comment on something I learned during a couple years of tube rolling.
  
 Although everybody has different ears, taste, preferences and equipment, to my surprise it is quite possible to arrive at a consensus on a select _group_ of tubes as being the best.
  
 Somebody will like this tube or that tube combination the best, but from a small select group of top tier tubes. IMHO it will not happen, using the same amp, that everybody will have a totally different tube complement as their favorite.
  
 I am happy to hear that people are discovering how good the 6AS7GA tubes are, and at a very inexpensive price.
  
 Still waiting for other opinions on the 6BL7 tubes which are playing imperfectly happy in my system. People say that a painting of a face that is perfectly symmetrical does not look natural.
  
 I've read somewhere that American cars look boring because they are designed by committees, whereas some other makes look much more interesting and exciting since they were designed by individuals.
  
 Sitting here, smiling, listening to a hi fi recording done with a single microphone in some large hotel lobby. The gorgeous sound coming from the Elise now is The New Normal - as essential as a good cup of coffee (or two) in the morning.....
  
 And may I add, just as addictive!


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Nep did the red and black cables for connecting to the FDD20 come with it?
> 
> Think I will get this. Looks great.
> 
> ...


 

 The cables came with the supply but I will not use them. I will make my own cables using these 
  

  
 on the PS end and two of those
  

  
 on the other end. Each adapter cable gets on of these here:

 Thus I can easily connect the tubes I want. 
  
 Keep in mind that the PS you linked has a fan, which might spin up and down whenever it thinks it is necessary. Depending on your cans you might be able to hear it.


----------



## nephilim

mordy said:


> I am happy to hear that people are discovering how good the 6AS7GA tubes are, and at a very inexpensive price.


 
  
 A pair is on the way... probably here in 1-2 weeks 
  


suuup said:


> They lost my Fivre 6N7G brown-base.


 
  
 That $ucks! Hope they are just in one corner of the truck and will appear soon.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah brilliant Nep ...those plugs are what I am looking for..I'll go to a hardware store to look for it. Thanks for the pictures. 
  
 Yes I found another passive cool unit which might be better..Should I get the unit with the ground connection? The green socket. Or the one without which is LCD which I prefer the looks of. Or are they both grounded already with 3 pins plug.
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Adjustable-Laboratory-DC-Power-Supply-Linear-Single-2-LCD-LED-Displays/201461708266?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D1f05de1fb7284a4199843fc3a6853a04%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D261602796016


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ah brilliant Nep ...those plugs are what I am looking for..I'll go to a hardware store to look for it. Thanks for the pictures.
> 
> Yes I found another passive cool unit which might be better..Should I get the unit with the ground connection? The green socket. Or the one without which is LCD which I prefer the looks of. Or are they both grounded already with 3 pins plug.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Adjustable-Laboratory-DC-Power-Supply-Linear-Single-2-LCD-LED-Displays/201461708266?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D1f05de1fb7284a4199843fc3a6853a04%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D261602796016


 
 One of them can only do 2A. I wouldn't buy one that couldn't do atleast 10A.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Even though you say that your comments on different taste were said in jest I would like to comment on something I learned during a couple years of tube rolling.
> 
> ...


 

 Hello Mordy,
  
 True I said in jest because I prefer us as individuals to have preferences which we do. BUT it's quite evident here, that there is a shift (liking) towards ECC31, 6N7G, 6A6 and FDD20 sound signature. This has eclipsed the 6SN7 tubes which were the original intention of Elise.
  
 So there you go, your hypothesis is correct. There is a general consensus amongst us here, young and old alike.
  
 I was using the GE 6AS7G which I think are RCA 6AS7G rebrand or share similar characteristics, for burning in my drivers and surprisingly they sounded good. There's nothing offending with the GE 6AS7G*A*. Good price, good sound, there's a lot to like.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> One of them can only do 2A. I wouldn't buy one that couldn't do atleast 10A.


 

 Thanks for pointing out that the LCD one can only do 2A but what's wrong with 5A? We need 10A? I see Nep has a 5A unit too. Are we preparing for 6336? 
  
 Yes I'll get a 10A one. I think the fan will be quiet like PC fan so it's not an issue.
  
 this
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dual-Display-Adjustable-Regulated-DC-Power-Supply-Output-30V-10A-Variable-New/111740634649?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D7e1a46598cde417aae4b65031b5a0b1b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D131448574723
  
 Best part is we can use this to test if a tube will light up.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Thanks for pointing out that the LCD one can only do 2A but what's wrong with 5A? We need 10A? I see Nep has a 5A unit too. Are we preparing for 6336?
> 
> Yes I'll get a 10A one. I think the fan will be quiet like PC fan so it's not an issue.
> 
> ...


 
 Haha, yes - We must prepare ourselves for the 6336. I'd just make sure that I got a good one, so I'd never have to buy a more powerful one.
  
 It's the same reason I bought the T1's. I had the 990 originally, and was looking at headphones about 100 $ more expensive. I could get those, but I'd have to scratch the upgrade itch before long, so I might as well go all the way and just get the T1's now, instead of slowly climbing the ladder, as it would end up more expensive!


----------



## Suuup

I just realized something. When I got back from the postoffice, I checked my mailbox and found 2 slips, saying I had items waiting for my at the postoffice. I had forgotten to check before I left. This means there should be 3 packages for me at the postoffice. The blonde couldn't even find one package, even though there should be 3. This has to be her blunder.
  
 I have hope that maybe she just wasn't good at her job / made a mistake. That, or the whole date thing.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Even though you say that your comments on different taste were said in jest I would like to comment on something I learned during a couple years of tube rolling.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...you make some interesting observations here, mon ami...
  
 I must admit to being somewhat surprised that few Elise owners so far have nominated some really top-notch 6SN7s as their favourites....Perhaps not many are in fact in possession of such as the TungSol BGRPs, lol?!  But then, we are still only a small(ish) band of lucky people, I suppose...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And then again, as UT says, we have been blessed with other seriously good tubes that were never in the picture originally!...which has me wondering just which 6SN7/7N7s would have triumphed if I hadn't strayed off the path, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(even more strange, as I initially assumed my suggestion to the Feliks-Audio guys would appeal mostly to those who already possessed a good range of 6SN7s, but who may be tempted by a better, new amp!!...).
  
 Your comment re the 'symmetrical' look is precisely my interpretation with regard to _sound_, in the case of the FDD20/ECC31 combination....
  
 And how right you are in your closing words - the Elise can indeed work true magic with an amazing array of source music...from simply recorded (sometimes quite old!) fare to the most complex, ingeniously engineered modern confection, lol!!...*magical indeed!!!*


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I just got back from the post office.... I really thought I lived in Denmark, but right now it seems to be the KSA.
> 
> They lost my Fivre 6N7G brown-base.
> 
> ...


 
 I feel for you sup :/ It sucks, I visit post office almost daily, the ride is 25 minutes, and the queue wait over there is sometimes 2 hours long. 
  
 I met the head of post office, that sucks was so humiliating, Pakistani people in KSA are mostly labor class and do odd jobs, at first he asked me if I was a driver of some Saudi. I was so pissed off, then I told him that I work for a telecom company as an engineer and he was f'ing surprised to see me. 
  
 If he finds out what is in the package, he would go crazy  Like that blonde girl at the counter..


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Even though you say that your comments on different taste were said in jest I would like to comment on something I learned during a couple years of tube rolling.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy Bro,
  
 You're so right, a good tube will sound good to everybody. Considering your advice, I have finally found 4 x GE/HP 6AS7GA with Gold blended rods  The deal for 20 GE tubes did not go well, I lost them in the auction. Also, I got a pair of Sylvania 6BL7GT for the future use  I'll definitely test this tube and report back.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

Where is @CITIZENLIN ? He has the Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates but I remember him saying he prefers the 6N7G. I like his opinion again.
  
 I personally have these 6SN7s and equivalent drivers:-
  
 Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base
 Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears
 RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass VT231
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top
 RCA 6CG7
 6GU7
 Voskhod 6N23P 1975 year (considered the best of all the years)
 RCA 6BQ7A/6BZ7
 Raytheon 7N7
 Marconi 6N7
 RCA 6N7GT
 Fotons 6H8C
 Lorenz C3G
 RCA 6SN7GTB coinbase
 RCA 6SN7GT
 Philco 6N7G
 Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue from stock Elise drivers
  
 All of these would have been good with Elise had these not come into my possession:-
  
 FDD20
 ECC31
 Mazda 6N7G
 Visseaux 6A6
 Fivre 6A6 & 6N7G
 National Union 6A6
  
 At this point I clearly know what my preferences are.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Where is @CITIZENLIN ? He has the Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates but I remember him saying he prefers the 6N7G. I like his opinion again.
> 
> I personally have these 6SN7s and equivalent drivers:-
> 
> ...


 
 Hi UT,
  
 Great collection, but how do you keep all these tubes safe? It is a big problem.
  
 I only got these and I am sure, this would be it 
  
 Philips Miniwatt FDD20
 Mullard ECC31
 Mazda 6N7G
 Fiver 6N7G
 Visseaux 6N7GT
  
 Powers:
 Chatham 6AS7G
 Mullard 6080
 GE 6AS7GA
 Tung Sol 5998 (single tube, looking for a mate, still lost in mail)


----------



## UntilThen

I have 3 drawers cleared out for my tubes. Such loving care.
  
 These are my power tubes:-
  
 Tung Sol 5998
 Tung Sol (IBM) 7236
 Chatham 6AS7G
 Mullard 6080/CV2984
 RCA JAN 6AS7G
 GE 6AS7G
 GE 6AS7GA
 HP 6080
 Dumont 6080WA
 RCA 6AS7GA


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Great collection, but how do you keep all these tubes safe? It is a big problem.
> 
> ...


 
 So you managed to get Mazda, Fivre and Visseauz 6N7G. I thought they are sold out. Pictures or it didn't happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 OMG this came down in price to $233....from $299
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-BENDIX-RED-BANK-6080WB-6080-5998-421A-CARBON-PLATES-VINTAGE-1960S-USA-/301805596010?hash=item464503ed6a:g:HSMAAOSwf-VWUZMp
  
 Raven you need this as well. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Western-Electric-421a-electron-tubes-matched-pair-/221947491823?hash=item33ad19f5ef:g:5L8AAOSw585WUSsh
  
 Finally you want a good deal power tube? Get this French Thompson 6080WA $9.95 each.
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/NOS-79665.html


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL YEAH!!! Right now I got no pictures  I will post them, you know me hehe
  
 I am not getting anymore expensive tubes, I am going by Mordy's logic 
  
 Isn't Frenc Thompson 6080 same as the Mullard 6080? Is there any difference?
  
 I still want a single 5998 to complete my pair, and I am looking for a decent power supply :/ Can't decide, they are like under 10$ PS but are they good?
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> So you managed to get Mazda, Fivre and Visseauz 6N7G. I thought they are sold out. Pictures or it didn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I have 3 drawers cleared out for my tubes. Such loving care.
> 
> These are my power tubes:-
> 
> ...


 
 I only have a single drawer LOL
  
 My Chatham 6AS7G tubes came without their boxes :/ So they roll in the drawer when I open or close it LOL
  
 That HP stand mod is cool 
  
 I don't want to pile a lot of tubes in my closet, only top or mid tier ones


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> So you managed to get Mazda, Fivre and Visseauz 6N7G. I thought they are sold out. Pictures or it didn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


lord raven said:


> Philips Miniwatt FDD20
> Mullard ECC31
> Mazda 6N7G
> Fiver 6N7G
> ...


 
  
  
 Visseaux 6N7GT is *NOT *the same as 6N7G.  These are *NOT *the 'Joybringers' JV has. He has the 6N7G. 
  
 LR, where did you pick up a pair of Mazda?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Visseaux 6N7GT is *NOT *the same as 6N7G.  These are *NOT *the 'Joybringers' JV has. He has the 6N7G.
> 
> LR, where did you pick up a pair of Mazda?


 

 Ah I see he has the 6N7GT, so that's half a joybringer lol. The coke bottle 6N7G are much better sounding than the 6N7GT to my ears. Don't lose sleep over it though. YMMV.
  
 French Thompson 6080WA are not the same as Mullard 6080. One is French, the other British. 
  
 This is the inside of my drawer. The foam thingy that came with your tubes. Put some in it to prevent the tubes from knocking against each other....and don't slam your drawer shut. Close gently !!!


----------



## UntilThen

No more Mazda 6N7G...extinct now but I found this rather interesting tube. Base looks like FDD20 and I love the red colour.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Visseaux 6N7GT is *NOT *the same as 6N7G.  These are *NOT *the 'Joybringers' JV has. He has the 6N7G.
> 
> LR, where did you pick up a pair of Mazda?


 
 LOL Bro, don't break my heart  Visseaux 6N7GT, has anyone heard this tube in comparison to Visseaux 6N7G specifically? I am betting it would be good, even if it is half good, I would consider my money is well spent 
  
 He only had one pair left  Sorry if I broke your heart.. I will send you a PM  Maybe he has more.. hehe


----------



## aqsw

Anybody have an extra ecc31 they would like to sell?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Anybody have an extra ecc31 they would like to sell?


 

 Aqsw get this http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC31-NR73-CV1285-NOS-MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-LC10-/311469889523?hash=item48850d57f3:g:sksAAOSw~bFWKLkc


----------



## mordy

HI UT,
  
 The EL3N is a pentode and you will most likely need a special adapter to use it - the C3g is also a pentode.
  

 "The EL3 of the red series is a 6.3 volts- version of the AL3, inclusively the round cathode, though with a straight tubular bulb with a narrowed upper section. As with AL3/AL4 before, after some months the EL3 was replaced with the directly replaceable EL3N, with the more efficient profile-cathode, reduced heater current and the usual dome bulb"
  
  
 Seems to be a late 30's - 40's tube.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> HI UT,
> 
> The EL3N is a pentode and you will most likely need a special adapter to use it - the C3g is also a pentode.
> 
> ...


 

 It never cross my mind to use it but if it's possible then it's really interesting. Cheap and nice looking. Have to get H1 to do some work LOL.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3x-EL3-N-Philips-Valve-tube-Rohre/381475600096?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D493239cf81a34dcd845a5a4a6f922b9d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D381475606754
  
 This is beautiful

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-EL3N-Philips-NIB-Valve-tube-Rohre/181941311570?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D9d93c809a3cf4d389a3d7df9dba4fd52%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D381475600096


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw get this http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC31-NR73-CV1285-NOS-MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-LC10-/311469889523?hash=item48850d57f3:g:sksAAOSw~bFWKLkc




Is that a good deal on one tube?


----------



## aqsw

Lucasz says shipping tommorow


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> Anybody have an extra ecc31 they would like to sell?


 
 i just ordered a set from james @  langrex ... he has stock.
  
 probably as good a deal as you can get for a singular tube ... the pricing on these has really escalated ...
  
 same with those bendix graphite plates pictured previous page(s).  they weren't always that expensive.


----------



## aqsw

geetarman49 said:


> i just ordered a set from james @  langrex ... he has stock.




Do you mind giving me a link?

Thanks


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> i just ordered a set from james @  langrex ... he has stock.


 
 How much? Maybe we can get a Black Friday price. Everything is down here in Denmark right now.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Is that a good deal on one tube?


 

 Yes that's reasonable for one NOS ECC31 and this is from Langrex...James.
 That's the price I paid for my one ECC31 -- GBP 65


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> So you managed to get Mazda, Fivre and Visseauz 6N7G. I thought they are sold out. Pictures or it didn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what is interesting is that the seller takes pains not to mention what is obvious in the photos ... one of the tubes is the highly desirable slotted plate, yet he deliberately positions the tube so that the slots are difficult to notice & despite the fact that they claim they do not use stock photos, i really wonder if the guy who gets them will get a slotted plate version.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Lucasz says shipping tommorow


 
 CONGRATS Bro. remember reviews on my desk 5 days before Christmas !!!


----------



## aqsw

aqsw said:


> Is that a good deal on one tube?




It just sold!!!


and my wallet is lighter


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> It just sold!!!
> 
> 
> and my wallet is lighter


 

 congrats ... i believe you'll be very happy.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> what is interesting is that the seller takes pains not to mention what is obvious in the photos ... one of the tubes is the highly desirable slotted plate, yet he deliberately positions the tube so that the slots are difficult to notice & despite the fact that they claim they do not use stock photos, i really wonder if the guy who gets them will get a slotted plate version.


 
 Well if one is really interested, then an email should be send to confirm if it really comes with the slotted plate.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> It just sold!!!
> 
> 
> and my wallet is lighter


 
 I'm coming to Canada Aqsw...spending Christmas with you.


----------



## aqsw

So now I have 2031, 4 mazdas, 8f?., all kinds of different drivers and powers, adptors. For a guy that didn't wnt to roll much, I wish I had an amp to put these tubes into!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Well if one is really interested, then an email should be send to confirm if it really comes with the slotted plate.


 

 it's not going to be me ... i'm done buying ... my wallet is thin - ner (like that movie) & some crazy woman is screaming 'stop the insanity'.
  
 but speaking about buying ... all we've been talking about is tubes & ps ...  has no one on this thread taken advantage of the bf special on the hifiman he560 at .... (wait for it)
  
 ...
 <$600 usd!!! ?


----------



## Lord Raven

aqsw said:


> Anybody have an extra ecc31 they would like to sell?


 
 I will sell my pair of ECC31 coming from Taiwan  It is somewhere lost in the mail but I want to sell it as my mood is off, and already have two tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> So now I have 2031, 4 mazdas, 8f?., all kinds of different drivers and powers, adptors. For a guy that didn't wnt to roll much, I wish I had an amp to put these tubes into!


 

 WHAT???? 4 mazdas ????


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> WHAT???? 4 mazdas ????




Yup


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> I will sell my pair of ECC31 coming from Taiwan  It is somewhere lost in the mail but I want to sell it as my mood is off, and already have two tubes.


 

 no ... i want to trade for 6as7g 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> it's not going to be me ... i'm done buying ... my wallet is thin - ner (like that movie) & some crazy woman is screaming 'stop the insanity'.
> 
> but speaking about buying ... all we've been talking about is tubes & ps ...  has no one on this thread taken advantage of the bf special on the hifiman he560 at .... (wait for it)
> 
> ...


 

 Where is the link Gee? $600 for the HE560 ...are you kidding? It's $1250 aussie dollars here ..just a bit cheaper than HD800.
  
 See  http://www.minidisc.com.au/headphones-earphones/open-headphones/hifiman-he560-planar-magnetic-open-headphone-p-1100554.html
  
 If anyone is looking for a top end headphone with an earthly price, this is it.


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> So now I have 2031, 4 mazdas, 8f?., all kinds of different drivers and powers, adptors. For a guy that didn't wnt to roll much, I wish I had an amp to put these tubes into!


 

 hey ... same here ... the tubes are coming ... but no elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    ... can't order until my wallet gets replenished (sometime next year).


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> no ... i want to trade for 6as7g
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey bro, what's up  The same seller I told you about has the 6AS7G, talk to him  I left 4 tubes with him, snag those or wait for my lot LOL I got so many tubes, I don't know where to put them haha They usually sell very expensive, I saw GEC A1834>WE421A>TungSol5998>Chatham6AS7G>Mullard6080 and so on, considering price.
  
 Right now I got extra Chatham 6AS7G, since they rarely show up and I can testify everything you have heard about their sound quality is true 
  
 Then I got some extra Visseaux Joy Bringers 6N7GT, I still have to ask someone to compare them with the other tubes cause mine will take some time to arrive, ETA near Christmas hehe


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Where is the link Gee? $600 for the HE560 ...are you kidding? It's $1250 aussie dollars here ..just a bit cheaper than HD800.
> 
> If anyone is looking for a top end headphone with an earthly price, this is it.


 

 its acgears.com  --- the sale price is $699, but then u use the additional 15% bf coupon (acg2015bk) from the mainpage and there you go.  my wallet is deflated otherwise i'd be all over this ...


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> hey ... same here ... the tubes are coming ... but no elise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If next year, then I might sell my Elise haha Since I am moving to a different country, I will wait for Elise MK-II then


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> Hey bro, what's up  The same seller I told you about has the 6AS7G, talk to him  I left 4 tubes with him, snag those or wait for my lot LOL I got so many tubes, I don't know where to put them haha They usually sell very expensive, I saw GEC A1834>WE421A>TungSol5998>Chatham6AS7G>Mullard6080 and so on, considering price.
> 
> Right now I got extra Chatham 6AS7G, since they rarely show up and I can testify everything you have heard about their sound quality is true
> 
> Then I got some extra Visseaux Joy Bringers 6N7GT, I still have to ask someone to compare them with the other tubes cause mine will take some time to arrive, ETA near Christmas hehe




Do you have extra chatham 6as7g?


----------



## UntilThen

Yup saw it. HE560 at $699 and HE400i at $299. Really good deal for planar magnetics.
  
 HE560 sounds lovely on a tube amp, especially with Elise that I can attest.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Hey bro, what's up  The same seller I told you about has the 6AS7G, talk to him  I left 4 tubes with him, snag those or wait for my lot LOL I got so many tubes, I don't know where to put them haha They usually sell very expensive, I saw GEC A1834>WE421A>TungSol5998>Chatham6AS7G>Mullard6080 and so on, considering price.
> 
> Right now I got extra Chatham 6AS7G, since they rarely show up and I can testify everything you have heard about their sound quality is true
> 
> Then I got some extra Visseaux Joy Bringers 6N7GT, I still have to ask someone to compare them with the other tubes cause mine will take some time to arrive, ETA near Christmas hehe


 

 haha ... i'll wait for your stash & if you have extra, then we'll go the pm route & work out some sleazy deal worthy of my fav czech audio dealer from way back when.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Hey bro, what's up  The same seller I told you about has the 6AS7G, talk to him  I left 4 tubes with him, snag those or wait for my lot LOL I got so many tubes, I don't know where to put them haha They usually sell very expensive, I saw GEC A1834>WE421A>TungSol5998>Chatham6AS7G>Mullard6080 and so on, considering price.
> 
> Right now I got extra Chatham 6AS7G, since they rarely show up and I can testify everything you have heard about their sound quality is true
> 
> Then I got some extra Visseaux Joy Bringers 6N7GT, I still have to ask someone to compare them with the other tubes cause mine will take some time to arrive, ETA near Christmas hehe


 
 Please don't call them Joybringers, as it will only cause even more confusion. The 'Joybringers' are Visseaux 6N7G. These are not the same as 6N7GT, though I still belive you will get an excellent sound from your 6N7GT!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Yup saw it. HE560 at $699 and HE400i at $299. Really good deal for planar magnetics.
> 
> HE560 sounds lovely on a tube amp, especially with Elise that I can attest.


 

 it will only sound good on some tube amps --- the elise (based on the postings here) happens to be one of them.  many otl don't have the requisite 'guts' to drive this phone properly.
 my experience with single tubed 6as7g amps did not go well with he560.


----------



## Lord Raven

aqsw said:


> Do you have extra chatham 6as7g?


 
 Yessir  I do have, and as stated above, some Visseaux Joy Bringers. 1 spare pair of ECC31, which I would not use, since my plans changed to use only one ECC31 and I have two, one for 2031 is enough


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> it will only sound good on some tube amps --- the elise (based on the postings here) happens to be one of them.  many otl don't have the requisite 'guts' to drive this phone properly.
> my experience with single tubed 6as7g amps did not go well with he560.


 

 Absolutely. Elise can drive low impedance headphones well as is the case here. I've use HE560 with Darkvoice 336se and it was struggling and I was unimpressed but Elise drives the HE560 like a good ss amp.
  
 Like I said, I never like the HE560 with ss amp. It's sounded bright with a recess midrange and polite bass. With Elise all that changed and you have a planar magnetic that has the speed and drive of a dynamic headphone plus the sweetness and musicality that comes with HE560.
  
 Geetarman, sell your other gear ... this headphone with Elise will bring about an improvement so huge none of the tubes can attained. Oh well keep the 2031 and a pair of reasonable power tubes. 
  
 The next Aussie Head-Fi meet I'll bring this setup along to showcase Elise and HE560 combo. This looks like the most affordable high fidelity head-fi setup.
  
 At 12 o'clock on Elise, my HE560 is VERY LOUD...ear damaging loud. There is still so much headroom for Elise to damage this headphone. 
  
 11 o'clock is just right.
  
 With the HE560, Dr Fang shows what a capable headphone designer he is. I can't imagine what the HE1000 will sound like.
 He's truly earned his doctorate.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> haha ... i'll wait for your stash & if you have extra, then we'll go the pm route & work out some sleazy deal worthy of my fav czech audio dealer from way back when.


 
 LOL Bro you got it  Plus I still got to formulate a plan with you on our secret data transfer adventure  I am replying to your PM now.. 
  
 Just to help any forum member, I got 4 extra pairs inbound. 2 Pair I left for other to snag at the dealer, if someone has trouble with KSA shipping service or shipping charges.


----------



## aqsw

geetarman49 said:


> it will only sound good on some tube amps --- the elise (based on the postings here) happens to be one of them.  many otl don't have the requisite 'guts' to drive this phone properly.
> my experience with single tubed 6as7g amps did not go well with he560.




I agree, you can always use the Elise as a pre amp though. Into a good ss amp that doesnt color the music, the planars will shine. Im pretty sure my Ethers will be paired 90% of the time balanced through the Cavalli amp, with the Elise as the preamp, and the Hegel dac as the pre- preamp. Does that work? Lol


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> Yessir  I do have, and as stated above, some Visseaux Joy Bringers. 1 spare pair of ECC31, which I would not use, since my plans changed to use only one ECC31 and I have two, one for 2031 is enough




Would you pm me on the chathams? 
Thanks


----------



## mordy

Hi All,
  
 The time has come to describe my tube storage system. It is based on the recycling / no cost principle.
  
 It is mainly suitable for larger tubes such octal and ST tubes. Most of the larger tubes I have came without boxes. If boxes were supplied, many of them are in poor condition, and if in good condition, very fragile and tear and rip easily.
  
 So I just try to avoid using the boxes and save them. (You could go out and buy new boxes, but that defies the no cost principle, as stated.) Besides, it is hard to read the necessarily small writing on the boxes. (OK, I heard that Thompson boxes are gigantic LOL)
  
 I use shoe boxes for storage. They are usually well made and come in many sizes. It is easy to adopt the size of the box to your needs. On top of the box I put a sticker with the contents indicated.
  




  
 You guessed it - this box is for smaller tubes.
  




  
 This box is for bigger tubes.
  
 OK, so you have all your Syl 6080 tubes in one box, but how do you quickly find that prized pair with the copper rods from July 1961? And how do you protect the tubes from knocking against each other inside the box?
  
 I use discarded bubble wrap envelopes, preferably white:
  




  
 With the help of a pair of scissors, you cut a piece a little wider than the tube and twice as long as the tube.
 Then you wrap it around the tube in a cone shape and tape the long edge with a little piece of tape - think ice cream cone:
  




  
 The bubble wrap side goes on the inside, The cone shape allows you to push in the tube gently - it will not fall out easily - the bubble wrap provides friction.
 Then you take a magic marker and write on the outside whatever you want to identify the tube:
  




  




  
 The tube is pretty well protected and snug under its blanket:
  




  




  
 The box could be lined with packing materials that you got from your purchases or whatever. Here is a photo of the inside of a storage box:




  
 Rubber bands can be used to put pairs together in their sleeves and to keep the lid tight on the boxes.
  
 This system will not win any aesthetics awards, but it works. It is only offered as a suggestion, but I found  that it works for me.
  
 I am sure that people have other and better ideas, so bring it on!
  
 "If necessity is the mother of invention, where do all unnecessary inventions come from?"


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Please don't call them Joybringers, as it will only cause even more confusion. The 'Joybringers' are Visseaux 6N7G. These are not the same as 6N7GT, though I still belive you will get an excellent sound from your 6N7GT!


 
 When this tube first made an appearance on this forum, we compared it with Madza 6N7 and Visseaux 6N7G, these tubes have different bottles, construction is the same. Let's hope they are the joy bringers either.. Where is JV? He can better comment if he has got both tube types.. I am just too excited to get even a single tube atm, it's like I am starving for tube rolling


----------



## geetarman49

mordy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> The time has come to describe my tube storage system. It is based on the recycling / no cost principle.
> 
> ...


 
 kudos .. i like.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I agree, you can always use the Elise as a pre amp though. Into a good ss amp that doesnt color the music, the planars will shine. Im pretty sure my Ethers will be paired 90% of the time balanced through the Cavalli amp, with the Elise as the preamp, and the Hegel dac as the pre- preamp. Does that work? Lol


 

 Try the Ethers with Elise direct. You'll be surprised as I found the HE560 to pair perfectly with Elise. If anyone has any doubt they have to come here and listen.
  
 Elise as preamp again bring about a wonderful experience. You're in for a treat Aqsw, esp with the Liquid Carbon arriving at the same time. You'll be rolling amps, headphones and tubes all simultaneously.


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> The time has come to describe my tube storage system. It is based on the recycling / no cost principle.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy Bro,
  
 Great idea, I have some shoe boxes, but I care a lot about my shoes either, where do I put them?  I think I need to buy some boxes and bubble wrap for my incoming tubes, thanks for sharing...
  
 Cheers


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> no ... i want to trade for 6as7g
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 PM sent bro  You are a devil hehe


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Try the Ethers with Elise direct. You'll be surprised as I found the HE560 to pair perfectly with Elise. If anyone has any doubt they have to come here and listen.
> 
> Elise as preamp again bring about a wonderful experience. You're in for a treat Aqsw, esp with the Liquid Carbon arriving at the same time. You'll be rolling amps, headphones and tubes all simultaneously.




Don't worry, I will be trying all combinations. The only thing Is planars love power, and the balnced connection gives them that. I will definately try them single ended through the Elise though


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Don't worry, I will be trying all combinations. The only thing Is planars love power, and the balnced connection gives them that. I will definately try them single ended through the Elise though


 

 Planars do love power but I cannot go past 12 o'clock on Elise with HE560 without destroying my ears. HE560 is 90db at 32ohms.
  
 Ether has lower ohms so I'm curious how they will perform on Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

aqsw said:


> Would you pm me on the chathams?
> Thanks


 
 PM sent bro, good luck


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Planars do love power but I cannot go past 12 o'clock on Elise with HE560 without destroying my ears. HE560 is 90db at 32ohms.


 
 Shouldn't a 32 Ohms headphone pair be easily driven? Even my Samsung galaxy phone can drive 32 Ohms cans  Correct me if I am wrong..


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> When this tube first made an appearance on this forum, we compared it with Madza 6N7 and Visseaux 6N7G, these tubes have different bottles, construction is the same. Let's hope they are the joy bringers either.. Where is JV? He can better comment if he has got both tube types.. I am just too excited to get even a single tube atm, it's like I am starving for tube rolling


 
 Yea, I fully understand. We have to give the combos the correct labels, else we create a lot of confusion. What Mazdas do you have? The Mazdas UT is talking about are the 6N7G, not the 6N7. Which tubes did you get?


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> Shouldn't a 32 Ohms headphone pair be easily driven? Even my Samsung galaxy phone can drive 32 Ohms cans  Correct me if I am wrong..




I agree that the Elise will drive them. But, not to their best performance. Planars just open up , when you starts putting multiple watts into them.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I agree that the Elise will drive them. But, not to their best performance. Planars just open up , when you starts putting multiple watts into them.


 

 I wouldn't make a statement like that without actually hearing a HE560 on Elise. What I am getting is eye popping experience. I certainly wouldn't listen to the HE560 on an ss amp.


----------



## aqsw

aqsw said:


> I agree that the Elise will drive them. But, not to their best performance. Planars just open up , when you starts putting multiple watts into them.




Im only guesstimating, as I don't have my Elise yet. If the Elise drives them easily, that's even better, but I will still stand with my original comment on how planars love watts. I am a planar fanatic.Three pair with another on order.


----------



## aqsw

I have no idea what tubes I am starting first. Has anyody tried the 6fn8g? I have not heard anything about them sonically.
I don't want to waste alot of hours burning in some tubes I'm going to hate. Lol


----------



## UntilThen

There is an exception here. Elise is design to run not only on high impedance headphones but also low ones well. That's why they took some time in the design stage. If I didn't hear the HE560 on Elise, I'd be doubtful too that an OTL tube amp will drive a planar magnetic properly and very well.
  
 Try it before making any conclusion. 
  
 Just go straight for the Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G if you have them.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> There is an exception here. Elise is design to run not only on high impedance headphones but also low ones well. That's why they took some time in the design stage. If I didn't hear the HE560 on Elise, I'd be doubtful toothat an OTL tube amp will drive a planar magnetic properly and very well.
> 
> Try it before making any conclusion.




I definately will. 
Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I definately will.
> Thanks


 

 Aqsw regarding tubes to try first:-
  
 I'd suggest as a start and for simplicity use:-
  
 Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080 if you have those power tubes.
  
 At a later stage, use FDD20 / ECC31 in place of the Mazda for comparison. Reason being you need to setup your adapter and power supply.
  
 6F8G ain't going to come close to those but YMMV.
  
 If you bought a quad of Mazda, you should keep those. They are very lovely tubes. on a chilli hotness scale of 1-10 they are 10.
  
 Another thing, give those tubes at least 30 hours before drawing any conclusions. Also they need way more than that for burn in but that's a start.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Yea, I fully understand. We have to give the combos the correct labels, else we create a lot of confusion. What Mazdas do you have? The Mazdas UT is talking about are the 6N7G, not the 6N7. Which tubes did you get?


 
 I talked to UT about the Mazda 6N7 and Mazda 6N7G, we concluded that both are the same tubes. He can confirm this information either.
  
 I got the Mazda 6N7G, Fiver 6N7G, and Visseaux 6N7GT.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I talked to UT about the Mazda 6N7 and Mazda 6N7G, we concluded that both are the same tubes. He can confirm this information either.
> 
> I got the Mazda 6N7G, Fiver 6N7G, and Visseaux 6N7GT.


 

 Omg lol. LR, I said the seller listed it wrongly when they state Mazda 6N7, instead of Mazda 6N7G. Those should have been listed as Mazda 6N7G...ie those with coke bottle. 6N7 are those metal shielded ones.
  
 6N7 and 6N7G are completely different. Take away the G and you're missing the GOLD.
  
 Marconi 6N7 - this is a good paper weight...just joking. It's not that bad. 

  
 Mazda 6N7G - this is what you want.

  
 RCA 6N7GT


 All different shape.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> I have no idea what tubes I am starting first. Has anyody tried the 6fn8g? I have not heard anything about them sonically.
> I don't want to waste alot of hours burning in some tubes I'm going to hate. Lol


 
 I have a pair. I haven't given them much time yet though.


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks UT, you just cleared a big confusion in my mind  I thought those were the same, I think I misunderstood you back then. Hehe And I am glad I made a wise choice to go for the 'GOLD' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Omg lol. LR, I said the seller listed it wrongly when they state Mazda 6N7, instead of Mazda 6N7G. Those should have been listed as Mazda 6N7G...ie those with coke bottle. 6N7 are those metal shielded ones.
> 
> 6N7 and 6N7G are completely different. Take away the G and you're missing the GOLD.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

aqsw said:


> I have no idea what tubes I am starting first. Has anyody tried the 6fn8g? I have not heard anything about them sonically.
> I don't want to waste alot of hours burning in some tubes I'm going to hate. Lol


 
 You have friends for doing the extended burning in  LOL


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I definately will.
> Thanks


 

 Aqsw I'm eagerly subscribing and waiting now for your impressions. Popcorns are ready plus coke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I suggest you do a blind test session. Ask your wife or daughter to connect your headphone jack to either Elise or your Liquid Carbon. Do a live stream so I can see what's going on. No cheating.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, I lost the last pair of 5998 from Canada, this is the 2nd one I am bidding on. I request to please leave it for me  As obviously, I lost my 5998 in mail, I need replacement  Thanks!
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331711825832?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 Cheers!!!


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Guys, I lost the last pair of 5998 from Canada, this is the 2nd one I am bidding on. I request to please leave it for me  As obviously, I lost my 5998 in mail, I need replacement  Thanks!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/331711825832?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 
  
 you got it ...
 guys, let's pls leave this one for LR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 LR,  you have 2 new pms.


----------



## UntilThen

Please don't turn this into a tube buying thread.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> you got it ...
> guys, let's pls leave this one for LR
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have little hope on this pair either, the price is already very high 152 USD. My highest bid is not funded by the Saudi National Bank LOL
  
 I received your PM's, going to hit the bed now, I will reply as I get up. Was just preparing an album to listen to for late night 24/192 magic through my Femtoes.. LOL
  

  
 Edit: Pardon my post about the Tung Sol 5998 LOL  I want it so badly, it was just a friendly request!


----------



## UntilThen

Today it's exactly one month since I had Elise. I'll be posting an updated impression soon to mark the occasion. Elise has clocked up more than 200 hours now.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Know we have a bunch of female singer aficionados...
> 
> Roberta Flack doing Beatles covers...
> 
> The whole album is GOOD...!,


 

 Wow how did I miss this? I love Roberta Flack. She has the voice of an angel. These songs..
  
 Killing me softly with his song
 The first time ever I saw your face
 The closer I get to you


----------



## UntilThen

At the 200 hours mark, I was going to post impressions of Elise but I decided to write a short summary of my journey with Elise thus far.
  
 In the month leading up to now, I've often wondered how Elise would have stack up with other tube amps besides those we already have comparison reviews. Then it dawn on me that it didn't really matter. What matters more is how happy I'm with the performance of Elise.
  
 So here's a quick summary of my take on Elise as I know of her this far.
  
 In my opinion Elise is more dynamic, with speed and precision compared to the raw and bloomy Darkvoice 336se sound signature. This I believe is Elise strength. It's very hard to get a tube amp with good transient response and precise attack, sustain and decay. Only a good tube amp can achieve this with considerable cost. Elise is fast and exciting, warm and lush when paired with the right tubes, quality bass and in abundance when the music demands it.
  
 I believe from the onset, had Lukasz been given a different brief, which is not to build to a set price point of $600, they would undoubtedly have produce an even greater product. Although it would be hard to fathom what such a product that might be in terms of sound. Question is how do you improve that which is already good.
  
 All said, I'm very happy with what I've got. It doesn't matter to me if there are no further comparisons because I know with the sound I'm getting from Elise through my headphone, it's pure euphony.
  
 Another thing I realise is about getting a more revealing headphone with Elise. I find going back to HD650 now a great contrast with what I'm hearing from HE560. It's like chalk and cheese. I think as you scale the sonic ladder, you'll crave more transparency, detail, clarity and greater soundstage. A good headphone is about details and instruments separation. Imaging so precise you can pinpoint where each musician is located. This is then tie up together as a musical whole. This I'm now getting with HE560 *through Elise* and my favourite tubes.
  
 I wish you a very pleasant musical journey with Elise.
  
_Fur Elise_.


----------



## Lord Raven

Where do I find the request ID? I called eBay customer service, everything was going fine until she asked me for a Request ID? Where is it? I can't find it.. I am desperate now to resolve the undelivered items issue.. Thanks!


----------



## Suuup




----------



## jerick70

I recieved an email from Lukasz yesterday. My Elise is #1 in the production queue. It should be shipped out next week. Very ecstatic about getting my Elise soon!


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> I recieved an email from Lukasz yesterday. My Elise is #1 in the production queue. It should be shipped out next week. Very ecstatic about getting my Elise soon!


 
 Congrats, The longest waiting period has arrived! LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

Congrats on the news of two more Elise's arriving soon!!

You will find, she has been worth the wait. You two lucky as well, that you know to pop in other power tubes and not waste any time with the default Russin power tubes. My biggest revalation with Elise, was putting in a couple of quality power tubes..

Your gonna love her!!

Congrats again!!

.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> Congrats, The longest waiting period has arrived! LOL


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Congrats on the news of two more Elise's arriving soon!!
> 
> You will find, she has been worth the wait. You two lucky as well, that you know to pop in other power tubes and not waste any time with the default Russin power tubes. My biggest revalation with Elise, was putting in a couple of quality power tubes..
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's going to be a great day!


----------



## Suuup

The blonde postoffice girl yesterday wasn't able to find my packages. I went down there again today, and an older lady found it within 10 seconds. Happiness. 
  
 I plopped those beautiful 6N7G Fivre brown-base into the Elise. I want to quote JV here,
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> ____S~O~M~E~T~H~I~N~G____ happened....!!!!
> 
> And it wasn't a BAD something!!
> 
> Will write more,  later today!!!!


 
 Quote from here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/732875/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype/2790


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> At the 200 hours mark, I was going to post impressions of Elise but I decided to write a short summary of my journey with Elise thus far.
> 
> In the month leading up to now, I've often wondered how Elise would have stack up with other tube amps besides those we already have comparison reviews. Then it dawn on me that it didn't really matter. What matters more is how happy I'm with the performance of Elise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ditto UT...as I revisit Jeff Wayne's Musical "War of the Worlds", with Richard Burton's voice and the amazing job done by the sound engineer sending shivers up and down my spine, I have no hankering *whatsoever* for a more expensive HP amp - either someone else's, or an Elise MK2 even. With our latest tube finds especially, I'm quite sure any gains would be minimal compared to the much greater cost that would be needed, lol!...this amp's qualities - as you have described - *and more!* - are so high already, and continue to scale along with all other elements in the chain...and not just headphones, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Our soon-to-join-us comrades are indeed in for a wonderful run up to Christmas...*and beyond!!!*








...CHEERS!...


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> The blonde postoffice girl yesterday wasn't able to find my packages. I went down there again today, and an older lady found it within 10 seconds. Happiness.
> 
> I plopped those beautiful 6N7G Fivre brown-base into the Elise. I want to quote JV here,
> 
> ...




Very nice Suuup!!

Can't wait to get the listening impression! The picture above, is the Fivre 6N7G's with the Mullard 6080's?

Gonna be a great combo!

We are the LUCKY ones!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I recieved an email from Lukasz yesterday. My Elise is #1 in the production queue. It should be shipped out next week. Very ecstatic about getting my Elise soon!


 
  
  


aqsw said:


> Congrats, The longest waiting period has arrived! LOL


 

 I woke up this morning to be greeted by this news. I'm so excited for you guys. I remember my anticipation of getting Elise and waiting to hear how she sounds like at the get go. All I could post at that time was the Jim Carrey animation of the jaw dropping and eyes popping.
  
 Remember despite your jaws dropping and eyes popping, greater things await as you let Elise and those tubes warm up. This will be your best Christmas yet. Remember also to keep the numbered stock tubes stay that way. They are there to help you count from 1 to 4.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


>


 

 This is so beautiful I stared at it for one full minute. Sup when you're done playing with those tubes send it down under. I need to caress those tubes with my hands. Impressions pretty please. All you need is a few hours warm up seriously.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> This is so beautiful I stared at it for one full minute. Sup when you're done playing with those tubes send it down under. I need to caress those tubes with my hands. Impressions pretty please. All you need is a few hours warm up seriously.


 
 I will give them some time tonight.


----------



## Suuup

Oh, and I just ordered a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


>




I was going to ask if these were brown based ECC31's!!

Amazing!

,


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> I was going to ask if these were brown based ECC31's!!
> 
> Amazing!
> 
> ,


 
 They're not. I thought they might be initially, but they sound more like 6N7G, and the same size.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Oh, and I just ordered a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro.


 

 I was just looking at the Fostex THX00 but I don't think it will suit my ears or be an improvement over the HE560 that I have.
  
 You're obviously a Beyer fan and that's a good thing. 
  
 Tight bass and smooth highs..sounds promising.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I was just looking at the Foster THX00 but I don't think it will suit my ears or be an improvement over the HE560 that I have.
> 
> You're obviously a Beyer fan and that's a good thing.


 
 I guess I am. I don't usually swear my allegiance, but I've never heard a Beyer that I didn't like before.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I guess I am. I don't usually swear my allegiance, but I've never heard a Beyer that I didn't like before.




I indeed love Beyers too, Suuup. And an anxious to hear what you think of the new 1170's.

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I indeed love Beyers too, Suuup. And an anxious to hear what you think of the new 1170's.
> 
> .


 

 My 1st headphone and the only Beyer I love at that time the DT880 250ohm, I've since sold. Wish I have kept it. Elise would have boosted the bass and tame the treble whilst making the midrange sweet. Sounds like Elise always does that to headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm back in 6SN7 land as I swap in the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue with Chatham 6AS7G. After a long spell with 6N7G, ECC31 and FDD20, I was shocked how this was sweet in it's own way. It's a different perspective. More 10th row seats than 1st row but it's beautiful. There's superb clarity listening to Sarah Brightman.
  
 I had almost forgotten the 6SN7 sound and I can see why those gurus love them in the 6SN7 Reference thread.
  
 I'll swap in Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top next, followed by Raytheon 7N7 and all the funny small tubes. I'm in a tube rolling frenzy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What an amazing tube amp we have. So many variations, it's mind boggling.


----------



## Suuup

Here are some notes. I'll have to wait until next week to do a full comparison with the 2031 combo, as I'm busy this weekend.
  
*Setup:*
*Powers: 2x Mullard 6080,*
*Drivers: 2x Fivre 6N7G brown-base.*
  
  
 Sound is forward. Soundstage is phenomenal. It has a very good width, but more importantly, it is PRECISE. This also leads to a VERY good instrument separation. Bass is very articulate. It's thight and controlled. Extends deep. Most important thing to note here, is that the quantity is exactly right for me. There's enough of it to produce a feeling of the sound being 'full', but it's not an insane amount. This is important to me. I tried with the 5998 as powers, as my replacement tube came in yesterday too. When using the 5998, the bass feels overwhelming and overpowers the other frequency ranges. Mids are a strongpoint of this setup. It is so sweet and lush, but again, the setup serves it without overdoing it. It has a very good 'bite' to it. This tubes can handle both very rock 'n roll and more relaxed music. Treble seems to just flow freely from the headphone into my brain. It's a truly perplexing experience. 
  
 Hmm.. Actually, that explains this tube very well. It seems capable of producing music to just flow into your brain. 
  
 Imagine sitting at the beach at dusk, looking out over the water. Remove the sound of the water. There is a near endless amount of free space in front of you. At the same time, you also have the sand around you, where there are musicians lined up. The sound is a mix of these musicians playing to you, and sound flowing over you, around you, and into your head. Completely *unobstructed*.
  
 I think that's the keyword to describe the sound. *Unobstructed*.
  
 At first I had a hard time pinpointing exactly why this setup is so good. I turned off all the light and laid in my bed, just trying to relax. After 20 minutes I got up, and I can hear so much more clearly now.
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Anyway, I'm rambling.... It's just so fascinating. Go listen to Bon Iver with the song Holocene. Make sure to get a good quality recording, and this will blow your mind. Let the strings of the guitar tickle your ears.


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice. What bringer are you calling this? Transparency?
  
 Any difference (noticeable) between the brown base and black base Fivre 6N7G? Using the same Mullard.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Very nice. What bringer are you calling this? Transparency?
> 
> Any difference (noticeable) between the brown base and black base Fivre 6N7G? Using the same Mullard.


 
 I don't have the 'Whit Horn' Fivres 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No name yet..


----------



## UntilThen

Oh... I'm about to pop in the Fivre 6N7G and Mullard 6080 myself. I want a sunset seaside experience too. Bondi here I come !!!
  
 What you described is similar to my findings with the Italian and French 6A6 and 6N7G. I said similar because we're using different headphone and DAC but the tone is mostly there.
  
 With the exception of the Mazda...which is more unique. I didn't say better or worst. I say unique. Someone added chilli to the Mazda piazza I'd say.


----------



## UntilThen

When you're able, can you take a close up shot of the internal construction both top middle and bottom of the brown base? I want to see the getters and plates and micas.
  
 A flash photo of the tube too so I can see the colour better. Yours, the smoke band seems to ride higher up. Not that it matters. Most of my pairs are of a bit unequal height. !!!
  
 Not exactly this but you get the idea..


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> When you're able, can you take a close up shot of the internal construction both top middle and bottom of the brown base? I want to see the getters and plates and micas.
> 
> A flash photo of the tube too so I can see the colour better. Yours, the smoke band seems to ride higher up. Not that it matters. Most of my pairs are of a bit unequal height. !!!
> 
> Not exactly this but you get the idea..


 
 I'll try, but I only have my phone camera, and there's not a lot of light in here.


----------



## Suuup




----------



## nephilim

Interesting - looks like a mix of Fivre 6N7G and Mullard ECC31


----------



## UntilThen

Yup same as the hijacked pair we first saw.
  
 Anyway here's my black base Fivre 6N7G. Exquisite. Morning fresh. Crème de menthe. See the difference in height?


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Interesting - looks like a mix of Fivre 6N7G and Mullard ECC31




It really does!! ECC31's close cousin!

Great looking tubes, Suuup!


----------



## UntilThen

It's very clear that the top constructions are different. The brown base looks like the ECC31 and Visseaux combined, as Nep pointed out.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yup same as the hijacked pair we first saw.
> 
> Anyway here's my black base Fivre 6N7G. Exquisite. Morning fresh. Crème de menthe. See the difference in height?


 
 Yep, I used so many hours to track this thing down. I wanted something exactly like the lost pair. I got 3 of those, but one of them seems to have some problems. I told my Italian friend to get me as many as he could.


----------



## Suuup

Here is a comparison. Left is Visseaux 6N7G, middle is the Fivre, and right is ECC31.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


>


 

 If there's extra I'd love to buy a pair Sup.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> If there's extra I'd love to buy a pair Sup.


 
 I have 3, but one of them has some problems. I don't think I can call return on this one though, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

And the Visseaux 6A6

  
  
  
 The top looks like these NU 6A6 even. 1st picture. Not exactly but close.
  
 No I mean if your 'friend' does find more.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> No I mean if your 'friend' does find more.


 
 I'll let you know!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for Bon Iver - Holocene .. I'm listening to it via Tidal HiFi but here's a LoFi version.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Thanks for Bon Iver - Holocene .. I'm listening to it via Tidal HiFi but here's a LoFi version.




 It's incredibly well mastered!


----------



## Lord Raven

Quote:


lord raven said:


> Where do I find the request ID? I called eBay customer service, everything was going fine until she asked me for a Request ID? Where is it? I can't find it.. I am desperate now to resolve the undelivered items issue.. Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

LR, I think that is the return id when you raise the return request. You should have gotten an email from eBay with that id when you raise the request.
  
 Also when she ask for it, you should have ask her where/what that is. I would have thought they can see your history and see the request you've raise. So call and ask them that.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> LR, I think that is the return id when you raise the return request. You should have gotten an email from eBay with that id when you raise the request.
> 
> Also when she ask for it, you should have ask her where/what that is. I would have thought they can see your history and see the request you've raise. So call and ask them that.


 
 The lady sounded like an automated call, he gives you two options, if you want the request ID or she can wait while I find that number. I think I should find this number and then call back, the call is expensive. I'll find that email now.
  
  
 Edit: Got it, thanks UT, you are a life saver!


----------



## UntilThen

ugh no...when you click on the contact icon...you'll be led to a screen showing the number to call. Below that is the request id. This is to prevent robot calling. Once you key in that number then you're put through to a human being. 
  
 Where's the face palm button?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> ugh no...when you click on the contact icon...you'll be led to a screen showing the number to call. Below that is the request id. This is to prevent robot calling. Once you key in that number then you're put through to a human being.


 
 No, that is one time code, I needed the request ID, I found it. When I opened a request, the eBay sent me an email. The email subject has a number, I think she wants that. I got it, I will call her again, I think it is too late.
  
 Besides, I don't need all those ECC31's now :/ I have changed my taste to 2031, for that I already got one tube, I received it at a friend's place in UK.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyone knows anything about Chatham 6520 power tubes? With copper rods.
  
 It's said to be the premium 6AS7G. Some says it's the equivalent of 5998. Others says they are at least as good as Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 Tubeworld writeup says...
  
 (the cadillac of the 6AS7G family. great upgrade from a 6AS7G. great choice instead of a 421A WE)
  
 Where's @Oskari


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Anyone knows anything about Chatham 6520 power tubes? With copper rods.
> 
> It's said to be the premium 6AS7G. Some says it's the equivalent of 5998. Others says they are at least as good as Chatham 6AS7G.
> 
> ...


 
 skylab also -- he knows a thing or 2 about 6as7g family


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> skylab also -- he knows a thing or 2 about 6as7g family


 

 Thanks. I found this writeup by skylab on 6520. No impressions on sonic characteristics though. Guess I have to find out myself.
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/22/220349.html


----------



## Lord Raven

The cheapest (so far) battery charger, I found it in UK but it is 79 in USA. I will be using it for charging and going mobile with my DAC. Can't go mobile with Elise 
  
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-Portable-Technology/dp/B00GSLRKJO/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448677440&sr=1-6&keywords=anker+astro+battery


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Where's @Oskari


 
  
 Asleep? Out of whisky? Pissed off? Not entirely sober? Who the feck knows.
  
 Ok, it's a very late Friday night in Finland. You just can't beat this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sttFo8wCrk


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Asleep? Out of whisky? Pissed off? Not entirely sober? Who the feck knows.
> 
> Ok, it's a very late Friday night in Finland. You just can't beat this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sttFo8wCrk


 

 My head is bobbing. What language is that. This is really good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Well Oskari, what about the Chatham 6520. Try and be sober for 5mins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm loving Finnish songs now..try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts_Lw3qrTfM


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> My head is bobbing. What language is that. This is really good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In Finland we speak Finnish. (There are some that speak Swedish but let's ignore them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 That's the best selling Finnish (language) band ever, and not without a reason.
  
 Chatham 6520, sober or not, I have never heard.


----------



## Lord Raven

Just called eBay for my 2 x ECC31 and 1 x 5998. She said wait till 30th November, then call us back again for a refund. I think they will give 3 days to the sellers to figure something out, then they will refund my money on eBay's buyer protection policy. 350 USD stuck in the pipeline, damn it!
  
 Wish me luck guys, I have put a hold on my tube buying for now. No more tubes for me. And I will be a silent observer of this thread from now on, will be available on PM. LOL 
  
 Ciao!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Just called eBay for my 2 x ECC31 and 1 x 5998. She said wait till 30th November, then call us back again for a refund. I think they will give 3 days to the sellers to figure something out, then they will refund my money on eBay's buyer protection policy. 350 USD stuck in the pipeline, damn it!
> 
> Wish me luck guys, I have put a hold on my tube buying for now. No more tubes for me. And I will be a silent observer of this thread from now on, will be available on PM. LOL
> 
> Ciao!


 

 $350 you're rich. Now you can afford 1 GEC 6AS7G


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> In Finland we speak Finnish. (There are some that speak Swedish but let's ignore them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm following that band now Oskari. Well bummer how could you not know 6520. You know every tube. I'm heading out now to get my Chatham.


----------



## aqsw

I was told I would have a tracking # today. Well, there is another 1 1/2 hours till the day is over.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I was just looking at the Fostex THX00 but I don't think it will suit my ears or be an improvement over the HE560 that I have.
> 
> You're obviously a Beyer fan and that's a good thing.
> 
> Tight bass and smooth highs..sounds promising.



keep the 560 s.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't worry aqsw latest Monday and yes I'm keeping the he560 

It's made for Elise.

Picking up my power tubes now.


----------



## UntilThen

*Chatham 6520 power tubes*
  
 Up until yesterday, I've not heard of 6520 so when I saw it for sale in the local audio classified, I almost skip it until my eyes caught the wordings..'the premium 6AS7G'. Then I realised the seller was the same person I bought my Tung Sol 7236 from.
  
 I started to search for articles on 6520. I found a few. Here on Head-Fi and a few other forums. All reporting good things about it but there are a few variations obviously. Some have domino plates like the 5998 and 2399. It is said these sounded like 5998 and they probably are since 6520 are only ever branded Tung Sol or Chatham. Tung Sol bought over Chatham in the later years, so it's no surprise there would be 6520 with both brands.
  
 Other 6520s look like Chatham 6AS7G, which is the pair I bought. Yet others look like those Tung Sol 6AS7G but with silver rods. Mine had the copper rods which is the reason why I bought it. So much hype about copper rods besides looking good, it sure does appeal to me. Who doesn't like bling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's claim that those 6520 that looks like Chatham 6AS7G are a good replacement for WE 421A. It is an implication of similarity in sound. That's a bold claim even though I have never heard a WE 421A. The price for a single NOS 421A is now a crazy $599.
  
 Anyway I got the 6520 home after driving 20kms both ways to get it for AUD$100, which is about US$72. Even if it sounded exactly like a Chatham 6AS7G, it would have been a real bargain. This pair is nearly new with 20 hours on it and the lettering clearly visible. It has 518 J which I think means 18 weeks of 1955. J is probably the Chatham plant where it was made. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  
 So I sat down for a night of listening, comparing it with my Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998. I didn't compare it to the Tung Sol 7236 as I know that sound very well. It's unique in it's own way.
  
*Chatham 6520, Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998 comparisons using a pair of Fivre 6N7G as drivers in Elise (HE560 as HP)*
  
*Tung Sol 5998*
 It is the loudest as the gain is the highest. Most noticeable is the strong bass impact. Equally noticeable are other FR lift. Highs and mids are more pronounced and detailed. I get a really good kick out it with rock, blues, electronic and lively Jazz. Equally it is beguiling on lovely vocals. This should not be branded just suitable for those genre. I have heard it being said as coarse and unrefined. That could not be further from the truth. These are lovely sounding power tubes notwithstanding they are love by the majority.
  
*Chatham 6AS7G*
 There's a fluidity here that's a compelling listen. Smooth, bright, cheerful sound with the right amount of bass. Vocals are very pleasing. In fact throw in any genre and it will do well. I don't have or have heard a GEC 6AS7G but I have heard others say that the Chathams are close cousins. 
  
*Chatham 6520* (my version with copper rods...as I said there are a few variations)
 This didn't sound like the 5998. It is clearly not. It sounded more like the Chatham 6AS7G BUT there are differences that are noticeable to my ears. There's a clearer separation of instruments and musicians placement. Not just separation but the tone levels of those instruments and musicians (backup singers and main vocal) are of varying degree of loudness. It is like a live stage or a good quality recording where imaging is very good and sound level of instruments / vocals are clearly audible. This is an immensely lovely sounding power tube.
  
 Pictures
 Chatham 6520 in the middle flanked by a pair of Chatham 6AS7G left and right

  
 Chatham 6520


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> *Chatham 6520 power tubes*


 
  
 The datasheet (http://scottbecker.net/tube/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf) says this:


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> The datasheet (http://scottbecker.net/tube/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf) says this:


 

 Yes I saw that data sheet here as compared to 5998.
 http://www.adsforwebsite.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/35805
 Quote:-
Data sheet for the 6520: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf
I beleieve they are a special 6AS7, not 5998. The transconductance matches for 6AS7 (7000), not 5998 (14000) http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/5998_TS.PDF

They do sound great though. 




  
  
 This is where skylab says he has 6520 of both types with domino plates like 5998 and those like the TS 6AS7G. See post #200.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/195
 Quote:-
 I have two different types of Tung-Sol 6520's.  A few look exactly like 5998's.  A few look exactly like TS 6AS7G's.  I thought both sounded excellent, but did slightly prefer the "5998 Style" one.  I thought it sounded very similar to the 5998 (which is no surprise, I guess...)
  
  
 Another reference to 6520 in the Crack forum
 http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html
 Quote:-
 Talking about 5998.
The "reference" tube for all 6AS7 tube types, this tube is very linear, detailed and has very good bass. If I were to say, along with the "super tubes" up there, the biggest difference with the bog standard 6AS7G tube types is that there is an entire layer/dimension of music added that is missing from the standard ones. 
_-The 5998/421A are easily distinguished from their dimpled "Domino" Plates. 
 -Some of the 6520's have the standard plates. The equivalent Tung Sol 6520 are built with the 5998 domino plates._
  
  
  
 Which makes me wonder. Does the 6520 with domino plates have a 5998 transconductance?
 As you can see, there are clearly variations of 6520.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Which makes me wonder. Does the 6520 with domino plates have a 5998 transconductance?


 
  
 Perhaps they sold low-measuring 5998s as 6520s…


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Perhaps they sold low-measuring 5998s as 6520s…


 











 
  
 You almost make me spill my coffee laughing !!


----------



## UntilThen

I would love these 2 as my headphones with Elise but I know that's not going to happen. So dream on.


----------



## UntilThen

My hero. Be water my friend.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Just listened to the Mark Knofler's solo album: "The Ragpickers' Dream" via *2031* and oh my gosh, it was absolutely fantastically glorious!!! 

How could this sound any better??

Cheers to us, the LUCKY ones!!

.


----------



## UntilThen

I prefer Leo Kottke, Mike Gordon 'Clone' album. On Fivre 6A6 and Chatham 6520, it's acoustic guitars sensation and Leo's excellent voice vocals.
  
 Cheers for beautiful music and a street car(tube amp) name Desire(Elise).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Got my "external heat" FDD20 and "special external heat Octal socket saver" adapters from Mrs Xu Ling...and the DC voltage regulator, also arrived, today.

So hope to report on 6BL7 as drivers within a couple of days.

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Got my "external heat" FDD20 and "special external heat Octal socket saver" adapters from Mrs Xu Ling...and the DC voltage regulator, also arrived, today.
> 
> So hope to report on 6BL7 as drivers within a couple of days.
> 
> Cheers...


 

 The stars are burning bright. The last of my 2 items have yet to arrive. The special FDD20s and the special adapters. 
  
 Have you work out your connectors yet? I don't know where to get those which @nephilim shows in pictures.


----------



## UntilThen

So any changes to the underside after one month? Not much...that middle portion is a bit darker that's all. All parts well and truly stabilised. 
  
 1st day


 1st month


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> The stars are burning bright. The last of my 2 items have yet to arrive. The special FDD20s and the special adapters.
> 
> Have you work out your connectors yet? I don't know where to get those which @nephilim shows in pictures.


 

 What about these here: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-5-5-x-2-1-mm-DC-Power-cable-Male-Female-Plug-Connector-/191097300398
  
 There are also plenty of "banana plugs" on the ebay.com.au.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> What about these here: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-5-5-x-2-1-mm-DC-Power-cable-Male-Female-Plug-Connector-/191097300398
> 
> There are also plenty of "banana plugs" on the ebay.com.au.


 

 Do you need to solder the wire to the connectors? Is the male on the AC adapter wire end and the female on the FDD20 cable end?
  
 Can we get something smaller? These looks big !!!


----------



## nephilim

You would have to solder them. But here is an alternative:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Male-Female-2-1x5-5mm-DC-Power-Plug-Jack-Adapter-Wire-Connector-for-CCTV-/401027779833
  
 So which end goes where... I guess in the end it does not really matter. I simply follow the design of commercial power supplies where the male is on the PS side and the female on the receiver.


----------



## UntilThen

The alternative looks unsightly with the green colour. Perhaps soldering might not be too hard even for me. lol.
  
 Just to be sure. On the female end, if using 2 FDD20 adapters, you'll combine both positive wires to one connector and ditto for the negative?
  
 PS end obviously positive and negative wire each into a male connector. 
  
 Is that correct?
  
 Green ones look easy. Just use a small screw driver.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Just to be sure. On the female end, if using 2 FDD20 adapters, you'll combine both positive wires to one connector and ditto for the negative?
> 
> PS end obviously positive and negative wire each into a male connector.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My approach is to go with just one wire into each connector as I would like to use the biggest wire diameter possible and it might be difficult to get two wires through the sleeve. So I use the three free wire ends to make the Y-junction. 
  
 Here is a quick & dirty adapter cable for the FDD20
  

  
 The wire has a female connector because the laptop power supply had a male connector.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> My approach is to go with just one wire into each connector as I would like to use the biggest wire diameter possible and it might be difficult to get two wires through the sleeve. So I use the three free wire ends to make the Y-junction.
> 
> Here is a quick & dirty adapter cable for the FDD20
> 
> ...


 
  
 We could have just got these then. And I shouldn't have slice off the male tip on my power supply. Now I have to join those wires and tape it.
  
 Use these and do the Y-junction as you propose.
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5x-Female-Male-5-5X2-1mm-DC-Power-Connector-Adapter-Cable-Pigtail-Plug-Wire-CCTV/331462009281?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D9d5ded5765cf42efb088c46d4c650bb9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181940082360


----------



## UntilThen

Will do it your way since I've already slice off the power supply tip. Just buy 5 pairs of those male/female green connectors.
  
 Thanks. That's a neat solution.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> No more Mazda 6N7G...extinct now but I found this rather interesting tube. Base looks like FDD20 and I love the red colour.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> It never cross my mind to use it but if it's possible then it's really interesting. Cheap and nice looking. Have to get H1 to do some work LOL.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3x-EL3-N-Philips-Valve-tube-Rohre/381475600096?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D493239cf81a34dcd845a5a4a6f922b9d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D381475606754
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...you *knew* I was thoroughly content with my 20/31 combo -_* why tempt me so, lol??!!!*_
  
 Have had to get myself one now, just to see what happens - and if my poor Elise blows up, I shall know who to blame!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...(plus, I swore I wouldn't go anywhere near adapting one of these weird bases for a _very _long time!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Now I know for sure this hobby is _guaranteed_ to drive you totally insane, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still, it should be very interesting *IF* it works OK...some DIYers have raved about this tube - almost as good as the 2A3/ direct-heated cathode tubes, etc. etc....errrr...2A3 _*power*_ tube?...mmmmm...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




???...disaster looming??...


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Will do it your way since I've already slice off the power supply tip. Just buy 5 pairs of those male/female green connectors.
> 
> Thanks. That's a neat solution.


 
 Here is another option with inline ON/OFF switch for less than 2USD


----------



## JazzVinyl

H1 - the EL3N is a Pentode, not a Triode, right? Can't wait to get the listening report 

Also:
I do have the 6BL7's running. First listen is encouraging! I will let them play awhile, before further comment.

One of the grounded computer power supplies I found laying idle in a closet...IS really grounded, and has done away with the need for the 3rd ground wire (yeah)!!

I love the "15 amp max capable" voltage controller from Ebay. It appears much better mode than the Ebay photos indicated. 
It works really great, I was able to dial down this 19.4volt / 9.4 amp power supply to the needed 6.3v for 6BL7 use easily, and it appears to be rock steady. There was no warble at all in the output that my meter could detect. Highly recommend this voltage regulator if you have a separate meter to adjust the output voltage with. 
The unit is also totally cool to the touch after running an hour. Very impressive. 

Thanks to Mordy for pointing us to this handy device.

I have not gotten to, working on a quick disconnect solution for the power supply wiring, yet 



.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you *knew* I was thoroughly content with my 20/31 combo -_* why tempt me so, lol??!!!*_
> 
> Have had to get myself one now, just to see what happens - and if my poor Elise blows up, I shall know who to blame!!
> 
> ...


 
 This will be really interesting H1! I'm looking forward to it. The tubes look really cool.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
  
  
 Very excited that somebody else is trying my 6BL7 tubes - but, u gotta be patient, the bass does not open up until the 30 hour mark....
  
 I have tried a couple of near pairs of Sylvanias. Two pairs were excellent, one OK. The tubes I got are all used, more or less. At the moment I am trying a pair of _Westinghouse_ 1964 tubes and a _Tung Sol_ with an unknown date code, probably from the 50's. They sound good, but have not yet developed the truly deep bass, so maybe not so used....
  
 Why two different tubes? The 20/31 principle lol...
  
 From my point of view I don't see the need for any fancy devices to connect wires. I use wire nuts (screw on nut wire connectors):
  




  
  
 The voltage regulators have little plastic blocks with simple screw connectors on each side. A little flat blade screw driver is all that is is needed.
 Closeup of connectors:
  







  
 The voltage regulators that are 5A with built in voltage display are very inexpensive (under $5) - I have a couple of them. (Even the 15A is not more than $13). Since they are so inexpensive I have one each for different purposes, i.e. one for the anticipated 12V adapter for the coming FDD20, and another for the 6BL7 setup etc. Actually, I am using a computer power supply for the 6BL7 tubes. It has a zillion connectors for 12V and 5V - used a voltmeter to find  the 12V ones. Then I just stripped the wire ends and doubled them up and pushed them in. Holding up very well.
  
 I am noticing that the Westinghouse tube has a very firm and well controlled bass.
  
 Here is an extra credit question: Why can't you find Westinghouse vacuum tubes from the 1950's?
  
 Man, that 20/31 effect is working! I am just sitting here smiling and tapping my toes. Let's call it the _TSW effect (That Something Wonderful)!_
  
 Could be that the _TSW_  is better than the Sylvania setup.....


----------



## mordy

Hi H1,
  
 The EL3N is 6.3V and 0.9A so you do not need an external power supply. Nothin' will blow up LOL! Once you have the adapters it's plug and play. The gold will go well with the red.....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you *knew* I was thoroughly content with my 20/31 combo -_* why tempt me so, lol??!!!*_
> 
> Have had to get myself one now, just to see what happens - and if my poor Elise blows up, I shall know who to blame!!
> 
> ...


 

 LOL. I'm now as excited as you are H1. Indeed DIYers are praising the sound from the EL3N. Here are some pictures from DIY. There are even adapters. !!!


----------



## hypnos1

Hi JV, Suuup and mordy...luckily, my encounter with the C3g pentode should at least help with the adapter wiring - just have to keep fingers crossed dealing with that weird base, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 And yes, mordy, it'll be great not having to worry about external PS with this baby...it's just the other specs of this power tube that are the unknown factor here!! Needless to say, the GECs will have to come out and the T1s substituted!!! But at least it should be an interesting exercise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...will keep y'all posted...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> H1 - the EL3N is a Pentode, not a Triode, right? Can't wait to get the listening report
> 
> Also:
> I do have the 6BL7's running. First listen is encouraging! I will let them play awhile, before further comment.
> ...


 
 Greats new regarding no hum now with the PC power supply JV.
  
 Also great news re the voltage regulator. Great news re the initial sound too. In fact great news to everything... 
  
 We're in for a fabulous time with Elise. I cannot imagine so much fun with a tube amp. Is there no limit to Elise?


----------



## hypnos1

>


 
  


untilthen said:


> LOL. I'm now as excited as you are H1. Indeed DIYers are praising the sound from the EL3N. Here are some pictures from DIY. There are even adapters. !!!


 
  
 Hey UT...now you've _*really*_ got my juices flowing, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...now you've _*really*_ got my juices flowing, lol!


 
 Have a look at this link. All the diagrams there not that it makes any sense to me.
  
 http://www.single-ended.com/EL3N-se.htm


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Have a look at this link. All the diagrams there not that it makes any sense to me.
> 
> http://www.single-ended.com/EL3N-se.htm


 
  
 Yo UT...one of the articles that encouraged me to bite the bullet...


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Here is another option with inline ON/OFF switch for less than 2USD


 
 CL that's dandy with On/Off switch. Someone please find a way to go wireless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Man, that 20/31 effect is working! I am just sitting here smiling and tapping my toes. Let's call it the _TSW effect (That Something Wonderful)!_
> 
> Could be that the _TSW_  is better than the Sylvania setup.....


 
 Mordy !!! You're tapping your toes. I'm bobbing my head. JV is doing break dance. H1 is smiling endlessly. TSW you say?
  
 I'm glad we've a consensus here and you're right again. Something good will be agreed by some here.


----------



## UntilThen

H1, how about running 4 together LOL.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Why do you want wimpy 0.9A power tubes? Make them you _driver_ tubes! I am using 1.5A driver tubes, and it makes a difference....


----------



## UntilThen

According to this article, it score GOLD.
  
*The gold* goes to the EL3N. It is closest to the 2A3 sound of any of the triode strapped pentodes tested. The EL3N makes music exciting – I plan to build a vintage EL3N amp as part of my collection this winter. Historically, the EL3 was created as a round cathode version of the AL3 by Philips in 1936. The EL3N was an improved version of the EL3 with lower filament current and better cathode. The 6V6 was created as a competition to the EL3, while the 6L6 was created to compete with the EL5 – the high power successor to the EL3. The final successor to the EL5 (and EL6) was the EL-34, still loved for its beautiful tone, especially by guitarists. Even in pentode mode, the EL3N is a beautiful and exciting tube. I would like to test this tube using ultra-linear design in the future. SET lovers will want an EL3N powered amp if they can find a source for the tubes; try www.radiomuseum.org, (I bought mine in Bangalore , India .) The final wonderful thing about the EL3N is that it is a ‘green' tube. Only 20ma is required to run in triode mode, the lowest of any pentode. This means you can use your salvaged preamp transformer to build the power supply and not worry about burning it up.


----------



## aqsw

Got my Liquid Carbon yesterday. Just burning it in now. Sounds very good so far. I also received the tracking info on the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Got my Liquid Carbon yesterday. Just burning it in now. Sounds very good so far. I also received the tracking info on the Elise.


 

 Woohoo. Play this when you get Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Very excited that somebody else is trying my 6BL7 tubes - but, u gotta be patient, the bass does not open up until the 30 hour mark....
> 
> ...





Hello Mordy....

My 6BL7's are Tung-Sol, and were said to be not NOS but measured good.

I am patient and waiting for the bass to arrive, Thought they sounded pretty good at first listen.

They do run quite warm! Could fry an egg over them! I love the external PS and voltage regulator. 

I love Mrs Xu Ling's "Special Octal Socket Savers for external heat", I can see these being very handy in the future. I plan to also heat the ECC31 pair externally since I see how much cooler the Elise deck is using this setup.

Am presently doing exactly as you, and using the wire caps, but do want quick disconnects to facilitate quick tube exchanges.

Quick picture (wire locations are not settled yet)....




I do notice 6BL7 has less gain this most of my other drivers...

And...no idea why no Westinghouse branded tubes from 1950....?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Why do you want wimpy 0.9A power tubes? Make them you _driver_ tubes! I am using 1.5A driver tubes, and it makes a difference....




But your hot running 1.5 amp drivers have less gain that all my other drivers, Mordy...


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> Got my Liquid Carbon yesterday. Just burning it in now. Sounds very good so far. I also received the tracking info on the Elise.




Awesome! Enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Woohoo. Play this when you get Elise.




Funny, I always had this version of the song:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdvkUR1t9pk[/VIDEO]



.


----------



## UntilThen

This you mean...sexy voice


----------



## UntilThen

But you need to listen it on this....


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Why do you want wimpy 0.9A power tubes? Make them you _driver_ tubes! I am using 1.5A driver tubes, and it makes a difference....


 
  
 Hi m...sorry if I wasn't clear before - I do indeed mean to try them as drivers, hence my nervousness...I've only seen them used as powers in the articles I've read so far...fingers crossed lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> According to this article, it score GOLD.
> 
> *The gold* goes to the EL3N. It is closest to the 2A3 sound of any of the triode strapped pentodes tested. The EL3N makes music exciting – I plan to build a vintage EL3N amp as part of my collection this winter. Historically, the EL3 was created as a round cathode version of the AL3 by Philips in 1936. The EL3N was an improved version of the EL3 with lower filament current and better cathode. The 6V6 was created as a competition to the EL3, while the 6L6 was created to compete with the EL5 – the high power successor to the EL3. The final successor to the EL5 (and EL6) was the EL-34, still loved for its beautiful tone, especially by guitarists. Even in pentode mode, the EL3N is a beautiful and exciting tube. I would like to test this tube using ultra-linear design in the future. SET lovers will want an EL3N powered amp if they can find a source for the tubes; try www.radiomuseum.org, (I bought mine in Bangalore , India .) The final wonderful thing about the EL3N is that it is a ‘green' tube. Only 20ma is required to run in triode mode, the lowest of any pentode. This means you can use your salvaged preamp transformer to build the power supply and not worry about burning it up.


 
  
 Yo again UT...this one helped me decide as well!...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This you mean...sexy voice




Who is this? Never heard this version before.

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Who is this? Never heard this version before.
> 
> .


 

 LOL don't you know? It's Elise singing to you !!!
  
 It's Diane.
  
 Your version is not playing.
  
 Doris Troy is the original singer. My 1st video.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> LOL don't you know? It's Elise singing to you !!!




No, really, I have no idea...the other two versions much better.



Oh...
Sung by "Diane", whom we had never heard of....


----------



## mordy




----------



## UntilThen

^^  Mordy !!! You got it to work. !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I so want those red tubes now. now. now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mordy..

Did you order a set of the Octal external Heat adapters?

Just curious...

.


----------



## aqsw

How do the Chathams compare to the Tung sols 5998?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> How do the Chathams compare to the Tung sols 5998?


 

 See post #3170. I wrote an essay there.


----------



## mordy

My 6BL7 tubes run so cool that I can touch them without burning myself - four layers of insulation because of my cobbled together adapter contraption.
  
 Re the Westinghouse tubes - why the dearth of them from the late 40's-50's? Oskari?
  
 JV: Suggest using a set of octal socket savers (or two sets) for the Elise. The socket savers do just that - save the original sockets from wear, and in addition, act as insulators, making the amp run much cooler.
  
 Still using my Tower of Pisa adapters - did not order the octal heater sockets yet.
  
 UT: The picture I posted is from a Dutch DYI site - it is not the Elise. Here is the link - use Google translate if you want to know what is said.
  
 http://www.circuitsonline.net/forum/view/82470/19
  
 H1: True, lower gain. For headphones 9 o'clock is usually good, with these I need 12 o'clock. Using the Elise as a preamp I have to turn up the volume on my receiver as well, but more than ample volume is available. The sound is so clear that I find myself playing louder than normal without being bothered by it. Hope my neighbor does not complain....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> UT: The picture I posted is from a Dutch DYI site - it is not the Elise. Here is the link - use Google translate if you want to know what is said.
> 
> http://www.circuitsonline.net/forum/view/82470/19


 
 My joke obviously didn't sound like joke lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes I know it's not Elise. Just kidding.
  
 That guy in the DIY thread ...he's good. Build his own tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

JV, have you given up 2 FDD20? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got too many tubes to roll right?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> My 6BL7 tubes run so cool that I can touch them without burning myself - four layers of insulation because of my cobbled together adapter contraption.
> 
> Re the Westinghouse tubes - why the dearth of them from the late 40's-50's? Oskari?
> 
> ...




Holding my hands above the 6BL7's - a lot of warmth - with the 1.5 amp current draw. But the Elise deck is nice and cool since she is not working to heat up 6BL7's.

With my 600 ohm cans....I am at 2pm to 3pm for normal volume!! Very low gain, in fact.

I do love the voltage adapter!! I hot glued it to the top of the 19.4 volt / 9.4 amp computer power supply, thusly:



It's handy indeed!

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, have you given up 2 FDD20? :wink_face:  Got too many tubes to roll right?




Not giving them up! Wanted to try Mordy's 6BL7's. Listened to 2031's yesterday. Been super busy with things around the house that need doin' too....


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Holding my hands above the 6BL7's - a lot of warmth - with the 1.5 amp current draw. But the Elise deck is nice and cool since she is not working to heat up 6BL7's.
> 
> With my 600 ohm cans....I am at 2pm to 3pm for normal volume!! Very low gain, in fact.


 
 2 to 3pm !!!  That's almost like the 1635. I had that at 4pm and it sounded good. Well not really...ok is the word. 5pm and it starts to distort and 6pm(max) it distorts badly. Not prolonged listening to judge as I was worried about damaging the amp at the level for a long listening session.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


>


 
  
 OK, OK guys...this is pure torture, lol!...obviously gonna have to drop everything once these babies arrive - 'She who must be obeyed' is not going to be best pleased, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 The 2 babies in question   :
  

  

  
 The top Tungsram I'm hoping will be a good enough match...although labelled EL3, according to radiomuseum if it's 'bulb' shaped as opposed to straighter, then it is in fact most likely to be the later EL3*N*...so perhaps another lucky case of a mis-labelled tube going for a song, lol!


----------



## DecentLevi

aqsw said:


> Got my Liquid Carbon yesterday. Just burning it in now. Sounds very good so far. I also received the tracking info on the Elise.


 
 Looks like you've totally got it made - I'll bet you may never need other amps. I've also god an LC on the way (ordered it before I knew of the Elise), and *I would love to hear your future comparisons between the Liquid Carbon and Elise* (Yes I know that would be comparing apples to oranges, but as is life).
  
 Also @UntilThen do you have any recent ranking list of your favorite tubes? This thread has officially overwhelmed me - I'm 65 pages behind - way too much gooing on to read it all even without a job


----------



## UntilThen

My ranking is going like a yo yo now. Still waiting on 2 Philip Miniwatt FDD20, 2 Fivre 6N7G brown base and 2 EL3N LOL. H1 I'm waiting....
  
 But here it is as of now:-
  

2031                              9.9
Mazda 6N7G                   9.8
Visseaux 6A6                  9.8
Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G        9.8
National Union 6A6         9.6
2 ECC31                        9.2
C3G                              9.0
  
 Power tubes are these as I like to switch them. All very enjoyable. My preference are listed in those order.
  

Chatham 6520
Chatham 6AS7G
Tung Sol 5998
  
 This is based on HE560 with NAD d1050 as DAC. iMac as source.
  
 With HD650, I seem to prefer the French and Italian drivers. Better synergy. It still performs superbly with the other drivers with the exception of 2 ECC31. Too warm with HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

H1, I have faith in you getting it to work. So I bought a brand new EL3N in box, at a cheap price. Made in Holland. !!! If It doesn't work, I think it will make a very nice paper weight.


----------



## UntilThen

2031 should have been a 10. Listening to Marianne Faithful now 'Ballad of Lucy Jordan' it's so lovely.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Re the Westinghouse tubes - why the dearth of them from the late 40's-50's? Oskari?


 
  
 Their receiving tube plant in Bath, NY made tubes 1952–1967, and they weren't that big in this business.


----------



## DecentLevi

@UntilThen Thanks for the update on your favorites. That's right, always gotta save the perfect 10 ranking because who knows in the mysterious audio realm maybe something even better would come along. So I take it you like the Chatham 6520 better than the Chatham 6AS7G with the '2031' driver tubes, right?
  
 Also sorry if these have already been answered-
 * Which one are the French, and Italian drivers?
 * Would you mind to fill me in with just a really brief recap of what all this modded power supply stuff was for? That really flew over my head


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> @UntilThen Thanks for the update on your favorites. That's right, always gotta save the perfect 10 ranking because who knows in the mysterious audio realm maybe something even better would come along. So I take it you like the Chatham 6520 better than the Chatham 6AS7G with the '2031' driver tubes, right?
> 
> Also sorry if these have already been answered-
> * Which one are the French, and Italian drivers?
> * Would you mind to fill me in with just a really brief recap of what all this modded power supply stuff was for? That really flew over my head


 

 Yes I prefer the Chatham 6520 more than the Chatham 6AS7G. Both power tubes sound superb on all the drivers I mentioned except C3g which I prefer to pair with 5998.
 However if you get your hands on Chatham 6AS7G, you should be very happy. It's a perceived difference between 6520 and 6AS7G. Not that much difference just subtle. 
 Our moods are such that you should ideally have 6AS7G and 5998. Nice variations. I didn't mention 6520 because it's hardly seen.
  
 French drivers - Mazda and Visseaux (I think some Mazda are British made - Oskari?)
 Italian - Fivre, FDD20
  
 12V power supply is necessary for FDD20. Hence we use a 12V 1 to 6A AC adapter to power the FDD20. Pins 7 and 8 which are the heating pins are disabled for FDD20. When use in this mode, Elise does not heat the FDD20. It is the external 12V power supply that heats the FDD20. Elise supplies 6.3V for drivers which is what 6SN7 and all the 6A6 and 6N7G use.
  
 6BL7 is another different story. Though it use 6.3V, it is 1.5A. So a pair will require 3A which is more than what Elise can supply. Hence again use the 12V 6A AC adapter but with a voltage regulator which can adjust the voltage to 6.3V and the amperes to 3 for 6BL7. If I get these figures wrong, I'm sure the others will correct me.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> French drivers - Mazda and Visseaux (I think some Mazda are British made - Oskari?)


 
  
 I don't think so, not in this case. I believe that the Visseaux and the Mazda 6N7G are essentially the same tube.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I don't think so, not in this case. I believe that the Visseaux and the Mazda 6N7G are essentially the same tube.


 
 Yes I do think that they are both French tubes in this case.

 Interesting you should think that the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G are the same tube. From pictures, they certainly look identical in internal constructions. I don't have the Visseaux 6N7G but I do have the Visseaux 6A6. My Mazda 6N7G certainly is a bit unique in sound compared to my Visseaux 6A6 and Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G. 
  
 Mazda 6N7G seems to be more lively and have more bite.
  
 Again Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G are not exactly the same sounding. There's a subtle difference. So I'm not suggesting that 6A6 and 6N7G are identical in sound.
  
 Mazda 6N7G

  
  

 Visseaux 6N7G

  
 Look the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are identical physically.
 Need someone with both tubes to compare the sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Cheers to Mrs Xu Ling for a little more tidy 2x FDD20 setup, thanks to her external heat adapters:







.


----------



## UntilThen

A lot neater now. Wish she had use all black cables.


----------



## aqsw

decentlevi said:


> Looks like you've totally got it made - I'll bet you may never need other amps. I've also god an LC on the way (ordered it before I knew of the Elise), and *I would love to hear your future comparisons between the Liquid Carbon and Elise* (Yes I know that would be comparing apples to oranges, but as is life).
> 
> Also @UntilThen
> do you have any recent ranking list of your favorite tubes? This thread has officially overwhelmed me - I'm 65 pages behind - way too much gooing on to read it all even without a job




If i remember correctly, I'm the guy that steered you to the Carbon, when you opened a thread about finding a balanced ss amp.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> A lot neater now. Wish she had use all black cables.




Electrical tape?


----------



## DecentLevi

aqsw said:


> If i remember correctly, I'm the guy that steered you to the Carbon, when you opened a thread about finding a balanced ss amp.


 
 Oh no I didn't start a thread for a balanced amp. I decided on the Carbon after hearing at at a Head-Fi meet in SF last summer. Glad to see you're on this thread. I remember you telling me you ordered some tubes for your Elise from the recommendations on this thread even before you posted. Boy are these tube roller supreme's good salesmen - without even trying! Maybe if you're in the general area I can try your Elise sometime later...
  
 Also Thanks UntilThen for the answers to my questions. I knew about the power setup for the FDD20, and so it looks like 6BL7 need a custom power setup too. I just don't get why some people have an extra circuit thing on top the power supply for the FDD20's.


----------



## UntilThen

That's the voltage regulator I was talking about.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Oh no I didn't start a thread for a balanced amp. I decided on the Carbon after hearing at at a Head-Fi meet in SF last summer. Glad to see you're on this thread. I remember you telling me you ordered some tubes for your Elise from the recommendations on this thread even before you posted. Boy are these tube roller supreme's good salesmen - without even trying! Maybe if you're in the general area I can try your Elise sometime later...
> 
> Also Thanks UntilThen for the answers to my questions. I knew about the power setup for the FDD20, and so it looks like 6BL7 need a custom power setup too. I just don't get why some people have an extra circuit thing on top the power supply for the FDD20's.


 
 The 'extra circuit thing' isn't for the FDD20, it is Mordy who uses a voltage regulator for his 6BL7 tubes. They need 6.3 V, but Mordy uses a higher voltage power supply, and the 'circuit thing' lowers the voltage to 6.3V.
 Edit:


----------



## UntilThen

Correct. As we're using 12v power supply for fdd20, then we can use the same power supply for 6bl7 by using the voltage regulator to drop the voltage to 6.3v


----------



## UntilThen

Censored !!!


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> I don't think so, not in this case. I believe that the Visseaux and the Mazda 6N7G are essentially the same tube.


 

 I also did some search on 6N7G Mazda tubes and it seems that  it is re-labelled visseaux for French air force. Mazda brand have also British branch but the logo is not the same and for me, the guess about Marconi Osram Tube is not realistic !
 I have 6N7GT Visseaux tube and it is excatly the same internal stucture and the getter is not very common and for sure different than the one of british made tube.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Censored !!!


 

 Or not available anymore......


----------



## UntilThen

Hi H1, a history of EL3 / EL3N, 
  
 Lots of materials out there on these tubes.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_philips_red_valves_series_part_i.html
  
 Apparently the original EL3 shape is much different.
  
 Left EL3 - Right EL3N (this one is labelled Mazda 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

  
 With a heater current of 1.2 A, the original EL3 had a similar heater power to the AL3. Only a few months later, the EL3N with a heater current reduced to 0,9 A appeared. The old EL3 still had a cylindrical cathode, as did the AL3. Shortly afterwards, it was found that the grid winding could be made very much better and in equidistant alignment to an oval (actually elliptical) cathode than to a round one.


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> Or not available anymore......


 

 Jokes not appropriate for young ones


----------



## UntilThen

Ha !  This guy build a EL3N Single-Ended Amp using 6A6 drivers and EL3N powers. My fav drivers.
  
 H1, I reckon you should use the EL3N as powers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It would save me money buying GEC 6AS7G 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=21000.0
  

  
 Change drivers to EF6 - beau-ti-ful !


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, I have faith in you getting it to work. So I bought a brand new EL3N in box, at a cheap price. Made in Holland. !!! If It doesn't work, I think it will make a very nice paper weight.


 
  
 Ouch, UT...don't think you'll find an adapter that's gonna work in the Elise, alas...and doubt I'd be able to do the honours for a VERY long time, I fear...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(notice you've bagged the very tube I was considering, in case my Tungsram doesn't like the  Philips, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ah well, 'he who hesitates'!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I'm glad it was you, mon ami, and not a stranger!...so I forgive you!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 ps....Use as powers? - interesting idea, but don't think they would work anyway, unlike as drivers...so sorry!! (Just get those GECs, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


untilthen said:


> A lot neater now. Wish she had use all black cables.


 
  
  


aqsw said:


> Electrical tape?


 
  
 No problem...black paint, or black CD marker...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Hi H1, a history of EL3 / EL3N,
> 
> Lots of materials out there on these tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo UT...hence my gamble with the Tungsram 'EL3' - just hope radiomuseum are right regarding the probable mis-labelling, given it has the fatter 'bulb' shape of the 'N'. But could easily just use the external PS to be safe..._assuming_ the Philips does indeed have enough gain to do the necessary, lol!!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> aqsw said:
> 
> 
> > Electrical tape?
> ...


 
  
 Braided sleeving?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Ouch, UT...don't think you'll find an adapter that's gonna work in the Elise, alas...and doubt I'd be able to do the honours for a VERY long time, I fear...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lol I feel bad in getting you into this H1. I hope you'll take it on as an enjoyable project to be done in your spare time. Tube rolling and experiments has to be fun or else it's not worth doing.
  
 This EL3N which I bought will be donated to your experiment so that you'll have a symmetrical looking pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I found a source that sell NOS EL3N cheap. They email me the price quote of a pair for 33 euros. With red paint and letterings all intact and perfect condition. So there's no worries of stock depleting.
  
 In the meantime, I have a pair of Fivre 6N7G brown base coming, courtesy of Suuup. Talk about good friendship here on this forum. Amazing group here. Also a pair of Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and new special adapters from Mrs Xu Ling arriving any day now. I feel very fortunate with all these tubes to roll and the free time now to do it.
  
 Now we'll sit back and wait for Aqsw and Jerick's impressions when they receive their Elise. It will be really nice to get their impressions of LCD2.2, LCD 3, LCD-X and Ether on Elise.
  
 Cheers to all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P/S It's 1st of December 2015 already. How time flies....


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 I remember reading somebody's memoirs (vacuum tube design and marketing) and something about a patent infringement dispute between Westinghouse and maybe RCA (not sure). The agreement was that Westinghouse would not make vacuum tubes for a number of years, but concentrate on a different part of the business, and this is the reason that you cannot find certain tubes of Westinghouse manufacture for a number of years.


----------



## Oskari

Yes, and quite a lot happened during their 20-year (or so) absence.
  
 When they re-entered the business they made tubes and valves largely for their own tellies and such.


----------



## UntilThen

Long history for Westinghouse, dating back to 1886. Now makers of our home appliances and much more. I think it's own by Toshiba now. It's significant that they created RCA with GE and AT&T in 1919.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Any news on the 6BL7 front?


----------



## Oskari

UT, it's also complicated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Licensing_Corporation
  
 P.S. This editor is a bitch.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Braided sleeving?


 
  
 Even better, O...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Any news on the 6BL7 front?




Hello Mordy...

I agree that they are a good sounding tube. Remarkable, even, considering the very low cost.

But - they have a low gain factor, and can barely produce enough omph to drive my 600 ohm Beyer phones to the desired volume levels. My volume pot is between 3, and 4:30 pm when normally 11:00 am to 1:00 pm is the range I am accustomed to. Any more on the Elise Volume pot that 4:30 pm and distortion sets in with the 6BL7.

With lower impedance cans, or for use as a preamp, I could better enjoy the 6BL7. 

The sound stage, air, clarity and FR are all good, and remind me of the (also inexpensive) 7N7 tube.

I do wish they had more gain. 

.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Lol I feel bad in getting you into this H1. I hope you'll take it on as an enjoyable project to be done in your spare time. Tube rolling and experiments has to be fun or else it's not worth doing.
> 
> This EL3N which I bought will be donated to your experiment so that you'll have a symmetrical looking pair.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are too kind UT...but I thank you nonetheless, lol! I should have studied the full specs before jumping in...keep forgetting that 'power' tubes (as JV pointed out) often do in fact have VERY low gain indeed...and of course triode-strapping halves the pentode's gain!...
  
 Still, stranger things have happened...and, as you say, this kind of experimenting must be viewed as fun - and interesting, lol!...so no problems, mon ami...


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> UT, it's also complicated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Who's the bitch lol. All I remember is my old Westinghouse washing machine and fridge.
  
 I was thinking about George Westinghouse, founder of Westinghouse and Thomas Edison, founder of GE. They are obviously 'best friends' NOT !!!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Who's the bitch lol.


 
  
 I had to rewrite/reformat that post about 17 times.


----------



## nephilim

Sent another mail to Lukasz... 3 weeks without Elise sucks. I hope they will be able to cure the hum. 

Also waiting for adapters from xulingmrs who messed up tracking IDs, but hopefully they are on track. 

Speaking of... also waiting for hdtracks to sort out a purchase which went wrong. In the end I paid for two albums and have no files on the disk ☺


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> Sent another mail to Lukasz... 3 weeks without Elise sucks. I hope they will be able to cure the hum.
> 
> Also waiting for adapters from xulingmrs who messed up tracking IDs, but hopefully they are on track.
> 
> Speaking of... also waiting for hdtracks to sort out a purchase which went wrong. In the end I paid for two albums and have no files on the disk ☺


 
  
 3 weeks without a fix, neph?...Aaaarrrgghhh!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...can't even imagine it, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Perhaps you're getting a major rebuild!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
 I do hope she will soon be winging her way back to you...*minus hum!!!*
  
 Hope you're other matters get resolved soon also...chin up, mon ami!


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> Sent another mail to Lukasz... 3 weeks without Elise sucks. I hope they will be able to cure the hum.
> 
> Also waiting for adapters from xulingmrs who messed up tracking IDs, but hopefully they are on track.
> 
> Speaking of... also waiting for hdtracks to sort out a purchase which went wrong. In the end I paid for two albums and have no files on the disk ☺


 
 Wow, you are one unlucky guy Neph. Hope you get it all sorted out soon. I'm not sure what I'd do if I didn't have the Elise. Worst case, you can come to Denmark and get some time with my Elise, you know, so you can cure your withdrawal symptoms.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Sorry to hear that the 6BL7 have too little gain for your headphones. I use Yamaha MT-220  37 ohm headphones, and even though I have to move up the volume it is more than enough loud.
  
 However, as stated before, my main use of the Elise is as a preamp. With the 6BL7 I get excellent results, although I have to turn up the volume on my integrated amp more than before.
  
 Are you able to audition these tubes via speakers?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I had to rewrite/reformat that post about 17 times.


 

 So it was you who is... wrote 


oskari said:


> I had to rewrite/reformat that post about 17 times.


 
 So it was you Oskari. Well I can't be wrong then. I read your article. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


suuup said:


> Wow, you are one unlucky guy Neph. Hope you get it all sorted out soon. I'm not sure what I'd do if I didn't have the Elise. Worst case, you can come to Denmark and get some time with my Elise, you know, so you can cure your withdrawal symptoms.


 
 Or you can come to Sydney and hear a hum free Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> So it was you who is... wrote
> So it was you Oskari. Well I can't be wrong then. I read your article.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mine doesn't hum with my new adapters! Only the 6C8G hums, but that's because they're incredibly microphonic.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh I was referring to Nep's unit.  So close to Christmas I hope they fix it (it there's a problem) and return to him asap.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Sorry to hear that the 6BL7 have too little gain for your headphones. I use Yamaha MT-220  37 ohm headphones, and even though I have to move up the volume it is more than enough loud.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Mordy, those Yamaha MT-220 are love by many. Elise as a preamp is certainly very nice.
  
 Anymore impressions with the 2031? Curious what you think of it through your speakers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Sorry to hear that the 6BL7 have too little gain for your headphones. I use Yamaha MT-220  37 ohm headphones, and even though I have to move up the volume it is more than enough loud.
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy....

37 ohm cans vs 600 ohm cans, BIG difference!

And no, I do not use the Elise as a preamp. For me, she is strictly a headphone amp.

Like I said, the tube sounds great, but it does not dislodge any of my favorites (FDD20/ECC31/C3gS/7N7/6N7G/higher end 6SN7's)

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Hi Mordy, those Yamaha MT-220 are love by many. Elise as a preamp is certainly very nice.
> 
> Anymore impressions with the 2031? Curious what you think of it through your speakers.




Is Mordy currently 2031'ing?

.


----------



## nephilim

Thanks guys! Currently listening via the M directly - it's good but would be phenomenal with the Elise! Btw, just spent some money on one of those "audiophile" recordings... Jazz at the Pawnshop - and it's really amazing. Can't wait to hear with some added Elise magic 
  
 Now that I have bought the power supply I do hope the 6BL7 have enough gain for the 300Ohm HD800.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Thanks guys! Currently listening via the M directly - it's good but would be phenomenal with the Elise! Btw, just spent some money on one of those "audiophile" recordings... Jazz at the Pawnshop - and it's really amazing. Can't wait to hear with some added Elise magic
> 
> Now that I have bought the power supply I do hope the 6BL7 have enough gain for the 300Ohm HD800.




Hello Neph...

I'm hoping too, that you will get a HUM-FREE Elise back, soon. 

Jazz at the Pawnshop...bet it's nice! Do you have a lower rez version, to compare?

6BL7 and 300 ohms, hope that works out for you, too.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I read your article.


 
  
 I did not write any articles. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wrote this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/3255#post_12119973. Eventually.
  
 This editor, this box I'm typing in here, sometimes acts up.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Is Mordy currently 2031'ing?
> 
> .


 

 I read his post wrong - #3193. I thought he meant 2031. He said the 2031 effect is working.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Thanks guys! Currently listening via the M directly - it's good but would be phenomenal with the Elise! Btw, just spent some money on one of those "audiophile" recordings... Jazz at the Pawnshop - and it's really amazing. Can't wait to hear with some added Elise magic
> 
> Now that I have bought the power supply I do hope the 6BL7 have enough gain for the 300Ohm HD800.


 

 Thanks Nep. I am going to buy Jazz at the pawnshop today. Been wanting to for a while. HDTracks at 192khz.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I did not write any articles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oooh K ! Nevertheless good article. I read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_(1886)


----------



## mordy

I have a 2031 combination coming, hopefully soon. Also ordered a pair of 6080 Mullards (thanks to information from this blog) + some more assorted 6BL7 tubes.
  
 Here are some thoughts on pairing different tubes as drivers although with the Elise  I only have experience with different brands of the 6BL7, and have not heard the 2031 combo yet. It occurs to me that the tubes must be very similar in order not to mess up the sound stage. In the past I did not have problems running different tubes as drivers in the Little Dot, but as soon as I tried it in the Elise I got two separate halves of a sound stage - the sound stage was not coherent in one seamless continuous piece.
  
 Something like two pieces of a puzzle that line up somewhat, but don't fit together.
  
 It occurred to me that if one tube has more bass than the other one, it may work, because the sound of the bass frequencies is not as directional as the mid and higher frequencies. This seems to be the case with my two different BL tubes - one complements the other. And from what I read, the FDD20 has more bass than the ECC31, which has a nicer mid range, if I understood correctly. So perhaps a similar synergy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> And from what I read, the FDD20 has more bass than the ECC31, which has a nicer mid range, if I understood correctly. So perhaps a similar synergy.




It will be real interesting Mordy, when you get 2031...!!

The ECC31 has more bass and a more "lush" mid-range. The FDD20 has more space/air between instruments and a much sweeter treble. The two tubes do sound alike, timbre-wise. very much alike, and they seem to compliment one another. 

Us old folk, think they are cohesive and the sound stage correct/enjoyable. It seems younger folks can detect some sound stage differences that the older folks don't hear and seem to enjoy it less.

Since you primarily listen via speakers, it will be interesting, your take on the combo.

How long until 2031 arrives, Mordy?

.


----------



## Suuup

I'm simply astounded by these Fivre 6N7G brown-base. I've been listening to them for a couple of days. At first, I thought it was just my excitement coloring my mind, making me think these tubes are just amazing. But my love for these tubes haven't faded at all. I'm listening to music all the time. I really do rate them 10/10. I cannot find any faults. This is exactly the sound I want.
  
 Before I got these, I had the 2031 at 9.9/10, as the sound is very enjoyable. It was only the soundstage that kept it from a perfect 10. To me, however, the Fivre 6N7G beats the 2031. I have to nudge the 2031 down to 9.8 now, not because I find it any less enjoyable than before, but because I think there's more than 0.1 points of difference between 2031 and Fivre 6N7G. 2031 with perfect soundstage would be 9.9 now. I hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes now. Remember, this is just my subjective experience!
  
 Now, even though I have given the 6N7G a perfect 10/10, that is not to say there can't be anyting better. My scale is adaptive. I just cannot find anything to improve upon, though there's undoubtedly something. 
  
 I managed to score a pair for UT too, so he'll probably give his impressions as well. 
  
 Edit: I'm running them with Mullard 6080. I tried the 5998, but it's to heavy in the bass department and lacks a bit of treble. I'd rate 5998 + Fivre 6N7G brown-base about 8.5-8.8.


----------



## pctazhp

Well, thanks to you guys and the Devil, I finally did it!!!. The Elise Paypal invoice has been sitting in my inbox since November 6. After a gentle nudge from Lukasz earlier this morning, I pulled the plug and paid the invoice. I'm a little nervous because it seems like most of the tubes recommended here are either not available or insanely expensive. I do have a pair of C3Gs and hope H1 can be cajoled into making a pair of adapters for me. I already have a pair of Mullard 6080s on hand, and a pair of tubes on the way that was described by the Italian seller on Ebay as "coppia vintage 6A6G =6A6X VISSEAUX AIR Engraved base doppio triodo tube valve". I hope that's a pair of Visseaux 6A6s I've been reading about.
  
 Anyway, wish me luck.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Well, thanks to you guys and the Devil, I finally did it!!!. The Elise Paypal invoice has been sitting in my inbox since November 6. After a gentle nudge from Lukasz earlier this morning, I pulled the plug and paid the invoice. I'm a little nervous because it seems like most of the tubes recommended here are either not available or insanely expensive. I do have a pair of C3Gs and hope H1 can be cajoled into making a pair of adapters for me. I already have a pair of Mullard 6080s on hand, and a pair of tubes on the way that was described by the Italian seller on Ebay as "coppia vintage 6A6G =6A6X VISSEAUX AIR Engraved base doppio triodo tube valve". I hope that's a pair of Visseaux 6A6s I've been reading about.
> 
> Anyway, wish me luck.


 

 Woohoo welcome aboard the Elise Express pctazhp. Those Visseaux 6A6 with the Mullard 6080 will make you stay up all night long. Remember you need the 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters on Elise.
 Yes those are the same exact pair of 6A6 that I have and you'll be very happy. At 29 euro that's a steal. !!! That's a NOS pair and test great.
  
 So you're set tube wise until you're ready to splurge more money.


----------



## mordy

The package is in the US customs - don't know how long they will keep it there.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> The package is in the US customs - don't know how long they will keep it there.


 
 The 2031?


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup 10/10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ok I'm swimming out now to intercept those Fivre 6N7G brown base coming my way. I reckon it will be a 11/10 those brown base with Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## UntilThen

@nephilim question !!!
  
 I found a Y connector. Explain to me how these will work with 2 FDD20 and female connectors with the Power supply having the male connector of course.
  
 Each pair of black/red wire from a single FDD20 adapter to a female connector and connect to one of this male connector on the Y cable? And the female connector on the Y cable to the male connector on the PS.
  
 I reckon this will be solderless and painless and beautiful.
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121813032435
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Pair-10-Pcs-Male-Female-DC-Power-Jack-Plug-5-5mm-x-2-1mm-Connector-Adapter-/251382838983?var=&hash=item3a8795b6c7mKX6s0WML2kzCb7ZHuNm7VQ


----------



## mordy

Hi pctazhp,
  
 Welcome on board! You will be very happy with the Elise - it makes everything sound beautiful. It brings joy to septuagenarians (I am almost there).


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp, you'll find the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue and Mullard 6080 enjoyable too. So no worries. What HP are you using?


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks everyone for the "warm" (pun intended) welcome. It's actually even a little cold right now here in Arizona. Hope the Elise is warming my desktop by Christmas!!
  
 UT: thanks to the great help from you and the other good folks here, I also have a pair of 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters on their way. And mordy: I googled "septuagenarian" to make sure I qualify. I do !!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp, you're most welcome. I see you have HD580 and HD700. Schitt Bifrost Uber too. Perfect fit for Elise and those 6A6 and Mullard.
  
 Am I just the baby quinquagenarian lol.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> pctazhp, you'll find the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue and Mullard 6080 enjoyable too. So no worries. What HP are you using?


 
 HD700s. I think the infamous treble spikes are probably a good match for my pair of rolled-off "septuagenarian" ears))


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl ...Nep did a runner on me. Can you see my questions and tell me how that will work? Thanks in advance.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl
> ...Nep did a runner on me. Can you see my questions and tell me how that will work? Thanks in advance.




All I see is:

"@nephilim question !!!"

i wondered what it was about.

More editor troubles?

.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh? Can't you see it? Here it is again. See it? @JazzVinyl
  
 I found a Y connector. Explain to me how these will work with 2 FDD20 and female connectors with the Power supply having the male connector of course.
  
 Each pair of black/red wire from a single FDD20 adapter to a female connector and connect to one of this male connector on the Y cable? And the female connector on the Y cable to the male connector on the PS.
  
 I reckon this will be solderless and painless and beautiful.
  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121813032435
  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Pair-10-Pcs-Male-Female-DC-Power-Jack-Plug-5-5mm-x-2-1mm-Connector-Adapter-/251382838983?var=&hash=item3a8795b6c7mKX6s0WML2kzCb7ZHuNm7VQ


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Huh? Can't you see it? Here it is again.
> 
> I found a Y connector. Explain to me how these will work with 2 FDD20 and female connectors with the Power supply having the male connector of course.
> 
> ...




I have the second (solderless) type on a solar panel that I bought earlier this year and yes, solderless, but holy cow are they ever cheap and crappy. You won't solder but you will often be stripping down new wire to bare and re-attach with a little screwdriver.

I plan to go to the electronics store, soon. I have a plan in mind that should be dead simple....(famous last words)?

Won't be hard 

Hang in there....




.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll be hanging ..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Meanwhile 2031 is pure magic on Leonard Cohen. I bet it helps Leonard with his singing. It's a good voice. Deep, bassy and full. It resonates. No wonder he's knighted.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I'll be hanging .....    Meanwhile 2031 is pure magic on Leonard Cohen. I bet it helps Leonard with his singing. It's a good voice. Deep, bassy and full. It resonates. No wonder he's knighted.




Leonard is "the man" !


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'll be hanging .....    Meanwhile 2031 is pure magic on Leonard Cohen. I bet it helps Leonard with his singing. It's a good voice. Deep, bassy and full. It resonates. No wonder he's knighted.




This works for me. It requires no soldering, isn't tiny / hard to see, or work with:








Will work with one FDD20 or 2x FDD20 or 2x 6BL7 or any other tube in ones or two's.

They are USA 120v ungrounded plugs, male and female. I have both sets of FDD20 heater wires going to one male, because I like 2x FDD20. But one FDD20 heater wires to a male, for 2031 would work perfectly, too.

If you have a pair of 6BL7's then just run both sets of heater wires to one male plug. Each set of tubes could have it's own male. One female plug stays connected to Power Supply / Voltage Regulator at all times.

If needed, you can get an adapter that turns one female into three. That way, each FDD20's heater wires could run to it's own male, use the 1 to 3 female adapter, and plug in both FDD20 males when you want switch from 2031 to 2x FDD20.

Don't know if these are avail in non 120v countries, I would think the 240 volt (AUS and such countries) style would be larger / bulkier? 
I bought them at the local home improvement store.

Simple, works, but not miniature.

Cheers!



.


----------



## UntilThen

What pctazhp said made me realise that I have just focus on 6A6, 6N7G, FDD20 and ECC31. Which is well and good except those that I like (the Italian and French tubes) are almost non existent now and the ECC31 cost a bomb. The FDD20 requires 12V power supply.
  
 So I look at my tubes and wonder what amongst that pile would appeal to me besides those above. Especially what would be value for money. Will I get good or great sound for not too much money? 
 This post is about that.
  
 There is no denying that I love 6N7G sound and that includes 6A6. However 6N7 and 6N7GT are also in the same family of tubes as 6N7G. There are similar traits of a closer front row seats, larger soundstage, a 3D sound, holographic, clear, detail and very euphonic. 
  
 There are 2 sets of tubes here I want to focus on. Both sets are cheap. One much cheaper than the other. I decided to use GE 6AS7GA as power tubes in this setup. The GE has a 'full' sound, a bass that is impactful and fearsome. The highs is smooth, no rough edges here. The midrange is amazingly good. All these qualities for $11 per tube from Parts Connections !!!
  
*Marconi 6N7 and GE 6AS7GA*
 This setup surprise me. It has energy, clear, airy and detail. The leaner sounding 6N7 compensated by the full GE. A perfect match IMO. The Marconi 6N7 cost me a shocking low $5.24 a pair.
 You can buy any of the well known brand cheaply. Such as GE, Sylvania, Tung Sol, RCA, Raytheon, Philco. I doubt the sound vary much, so take your pick and select a nice looking pair.


*RCA 6N7GT with GE 6AS7GA*
 This setup sounded more warm and lush but nevertheless very enjoyable too. The pair of RCA cost me $40. There are some Visseaux 6N7GT and Fivre 6N7GT. I think those sound great as attest by hpampdr. There are also Tung Sol, RCA, Sylvania, GE, etc out there which should be good too.

  
 All impressions on HE560 with NAD d1050 as DAC.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> There is no denying that I love 6N7G sound and that includes 6A6. However 6N7 and 6N7GT are also in the same family of tubes as 6N7G. There are similar traits of a closer front row seats, larger soundstage, a 3D sound, holographic, clear, detail and very euphonic.




Very Good, but....

If quality sonics on the cheap are desired, my vote would be the 7N7's as drivers and a pair of RCA 6AS7G's powers.

Just my 2 cents...

Everyone's mileage will of course, vary.

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> This works for me. It requires no soldering, isn't tiny / hard to see, or work with:
> 
> Will work with one FDD20 or 2x FDD20 or 2x 6BL7 or any other tube in ones or two's.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds good. Since it requires no soldering, how are the wires attached to the female and male plugs? Also must the wires not touch when inserted into the plug? Fireworks? 
  
 Why 1 to 3 female adapter and not 1 to 2? You're using either 2031(single) or 2 FDD20(double).


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Sounds good. Since it requires no soldering, how are the wires attached to the female and male plugs? Also must the wires not touch when inserted into the plug? Fireworks?
> 
> Why 1 to 3 female adapter and not 1 to 2? You're using either 2031(single) or 2 FDD20(double).




Screws hold the wires on the posts inside the male/female plugs. 

No fireworks no problems the blades cannot touch one another while plugging in/out. 

When attaching a pair of tubes to the male plug - just twist together both red and both black wires, and attach each pair to it's own post. Polarity does not matter.

One to two females is fine...all I saw avail where I was...were "one into three's"...



.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Very Good, but....
> 
> If quality sonics on the cheap are desired, my vote would be the 7N7's as drivers and a pair of RCA 6AS7G's powers.
> 
> ...


 

 7N7 certainly sounds good too. It's 6SN7 sound so it's different from the 6N7. It has a 7 to 10 row seat presentation which I'm sure some would prefer rather than mingling with the musicians. 7N7 requires a 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter. They sound sweet.
  
 RCA, GE 6AS7G and GE 6AS7GA has similar characteristic to me. For not too much money they are a big improvement over the stock power tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 7N7 certainly sounds good too. It's 6SN7 sound so it's different from the 6N7. It has a 7 to 10 row seat presentation which I'm sure some would prefer rather than mingling with the musicians. 7N7 requires a 7N7 to 6SN7 adapter. They sound sweet.
> 
> RCA, GE 6AS7G and GE 6AS7GA has similar characteristic to me. For not too much money they are a big improvement over the stock power tubes.




Right-o, I think clearing the deck of the Russian Powers may be the MOST important step for improving the sound.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Screws hold the wires on the posts inside the male/female plugs.
> 
> No fireworks no problems the blades cannot touch one another while plugging in/out.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks JV. That's clear now. What I wasn't sure was whether to twist both red and both black wires together on their own. I certainly shouldn't twist red and black wires together.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thanks JV. That's clear now. What I wasn't sure was whether to twist both red and both black wires together on their own. I certainly shouldn't twist red and black wires together.




Not unless you LIKE fireworks 

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Not unless you LIKE fireworks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Why would you need 1 to 2 adapter then. Twisting red and black together separately and attaching to one male plug seems easy unless it's too tight to go in for 2 FDD20?
  
 For flexibility I guess. So each FDD20 is independent and not hooked up together.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Why would you need 1 to 2 adapter then. Twisting red and black together separately and attaching to one male plug seems easy unless it's too tight to go in for 2 FDD20?
> 
> For flexibility I guess. So each FDD20 is independent and not hooked up together.




Plenty of room for both sets of heater wires to enter the male plug. I suggested the separate males (one for each FDD20), so that you could 2031 or 2x FDD20 without having to reconfigure the male (if you had both going in to one).

But, I just did 2031 and removed the 2nd FDD20 from it's adapter (so that it would not light up) and just set the adapter aside and replaced with ECC31.

12v was still going to the 2nd adapter, but no tube inserted into the now idle adapter...

See?

Also...

All this talk of 6N7G/6A6 made be inset the Joybringers in the drivers' positions...and *JOY* is now being brung!


.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Let there be *Joy*bringers'...




Had almost forgotten how GOOD these are 



.


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice. I call that the 'Accidental Joy' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's the harbinger of 6N7 family of goodness into our fold. 
  
 I'm enjoying my 2724 so much now. Cost $27.24 for power and driver tubes. Aka Marconi 6N7 and GE 6AS7GA. Guys you owe yourself to try these. I will eat my hat if you don't like it.
  
 $5.24                                                                    $22


----------



## Suuup

He keeps jacking up the price for these things http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coppia-vintage-Fivre-6N7G-ECC31-black-plates-with-Horn-anno-1942-made-in-/262166890057?hash=item3d0a5d4649:g:8HgAAOSwNphWWzYd I should have bought them back when they were half the price. It's you guys who keep buying them, so they become more and more expensive. horned 6N7G to match my brown-base 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

I paid 89 euros for my pair. He's reading this thread. So I'm promoting cheap 6N7 now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  With the exception that they're indeed good and so many in eBay with no buyers .....


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I paid 89 euros for my pair. He's reading this thread. So I'm promoting cheap 6N7 now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I guess he is. 
  
 Those horned 6N7G are just terrible. Nobody should ever buy those. The sound is horrible!!
  
 (Hopefully he'll lower the price now)


----------



## UntilThen

Ouy !!! you just lower the value of my Fivre 6N7G with horns....


----------



## UntilThen

Marconi 6N7 and GE 6AS7GA score is ....wait for it...... 9.5 !!!

For $27.24 cents 

Been listening to it for a few hours. These days I crave details and clarity more. This the 6N7 delivers in spades. The highs and mids are so lovely. As I said the GE brings in the mid fullness and bass. What you get is wide soundstage, front row presentation, smooth trebles, gorgeous mids and exploding bass. This is musical and perfect on the HE560.

I cannot believe I have ignored the 6N7 and GE 6AS7GA for so long. Cheap and they belong together.

Listening to Money For Nothing by Dire Straits now. Feet tapping, head bobbing. Drums hit like drums, Mark Knopfler sounds like Mark Knoplfler, electric guitars sound like electric guitars.

Ry Cooder - Drume negrita. So lovely instrumental.


----------



## UntilThen

I love Ry Cooder...famous for his slide guitar. A legend.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Love Ry Cooder, have dozens of LP's/CD's.

Did you know his "Bop Till You Drop" LP was the first commercially released music that was digitally recorded?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bop_till_You_Drop

BTW, your video is from decades ago. He looks "quite different" these days 

.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I'm simply astounded by these Fivre 6N7G brown-base. I've been listening to them for a couple of days. At first, I thought it was just my excitement coloring my mind, making me think these tubes are just amazing. But my love for these tubes haven't faded at all. I'm listening to music all the time. I really do rate them 10/10. I cannot find any faults. This is exactly the sound I want.
> 
> Before I got these, I had the 2031 at 9.9/10, as the sound is very enjoyable. It was only the soundstage that kept it from a perfect 10. To me, however, the Fivre 6N7G beats the 2031. I have to nudge the 2031 down to 9.8 now, not because I find it any less enjoyable than before, but because I think there's more than 0.1 points of difference between 2031 and Fivre 6N7G. 2031 with perfect soundstage would be 9.9 now. I hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes now. Remember, this is just my subjective experience!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Suuup....glad you've found your 'perfect' combo...and that those Fivres sound as good as they look! A real shame there aren't many about - perhaps more might just suddenly appear now interest has been shown in them, lol!...(but wouldn't count on it, alas...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


pctazhp said:


> Well, thanks to you guys and the Devil, I finally did it!!!. The Elise Paypal invoice has been sitting in my inbox since November 6. After a gentle nudge from Lukasz earlier this morning, I pulled the plug and paid the invoice. I'm a little nervous because it seems like most of the tubes recommended here are either not available or insanely expensive. I do have a pair of C3Gs and hope H1 can be cajoled into making a pair of adapters for me. I already have a pair of Mullard 6080s on hand, and a pair of tubes on the way that was described by the Italian seller on Ebay as "coppia vintage 6A6G =6A6X VISSEAUX AIR Engraved base doppio triodo tube valve". I hope that's a pair of Visseaux 6A6s I've been reading about.
> 
> Anyway, wish me luck.


 
  
 WELL DONE, pctazhp...a wonderful Christmas present, to be sure! (You will not be disappointed, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And looks like you will be off to a marvellous start with your tubes...without having to spend a pile of $$$$$$$...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Might be a good idea for us to possibly sound out how the C3g pairs with the Mullards...could well be those 6A6s are in fact a better match, lol!).


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Love Ry Cooder, have dozens of LP's/CD's.
> 
> Did you know his "Bop Till You Drop" LP was the first commercially released music that was digitally recorded?
> 
> ...


 

 No I have no ideas was the 1st commercially released digitally recorded music. He was also famous for being responsible for Beuna Vista Social Club album which was a great success.
  
 I spend last night listening to all of Ry Cooder's songs on Tidal and I love it.
  
 I think he's good looking when he was young but don't we all?


----------



## UntilThen

At H1 's question about how the Marconi 6N7 / GE 6AS7GA sound on high z cans, I plug in the HD650 and to my dismay, I hear hum for the 1st time. I replug in the HE560 and total silence !!! What is going on?
  
 Despite the hum, HD650 sounded superb too with that combo. I don't believe that 6N7 on it's own is the culprit for the hum. It's possible my pair is a humming pair. I'll switch to my gold adapters and see....
  
 Stay tune.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> No I have no ideas was the 1st commercially released digitally recorded music. He was also famous for being responsible for Beuna Vista Social Club album which was a great success.
> 
> I spend last night listening to all of Ry Cooder's songs on Tidal and I love it.
> 
> I think he's good looking when he was young but don't we all?




Funny that "Beuna Vista Social Club" album is the one by him, I don't like...


----------



## UntilThen

*Marconi 6N7 with GE 6AS7GA and HE560 / HD650 impressions.*
  
 I left the music playing while I had a shower. When I came back, the hum is gone. This is with HD650 with Marconi 6N7 and GE 6AS7GA using the cheaper black adapters.
  
 So now I can do a proper impression of the 2724 with HD650 and HE560.
  
 On HD650, sound is great. Full, nice layering and just relaxing music that I've come to know of the HD650. Hits hard too on tracks like 'Perfectamundo', lovely on more mellow song like Holly Cole 'Take Me Home'. On Rebecca Ptdgeon 'Spanish Harlem', it's wonderful. I think this combo is great.
  
 On HE560, sound is awesome. Tight and controlled, like a maestro conductor, wringing out every musical notes from the musicians in the orchestra. HE560 is a bright HP on it's own (even Tyll Hertsens agrees) but in this setup, it has the right amount of warm, lushness plus sparkle. I like it over the HD650 with these tubes. I have no doubt the HD800 and T1 will sound great with these tubes too.
  
 Wow I play Gregg Karukas 'Do Watcha Love' and BOTH headphones sounded amazing. Try it !!! Try it on 16/44.1 at least.
  
 I should have score this tube combo higher than 9.5 but I'm bias. Being such cheap tubes, my logical self says it can't be that good but my ears says 'You got to be kidding!!!' So turn off your illogical self and let your ears be the Boss where audio is concerned.


----------



## nephilim

Just 2h before 1st of December ends I receive two mails - hdtracks finally sorts out my album & refund issue (apparently they have "just" one support guy in hdtracks.com 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and... *drumroll* Lukasz tells me the hum is gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still have no full understanding what they did... "Diagnosis is that the Melz drivers are playing up - we opened and cleaned up both of the drivers and now hum is gone." I have asked him whether they did any change to the amp or if it was just a bad pair of tubes. I hope the latter is correct as the hum occured with all other drivers I have tested in the meantime. Let's see - there is light at the end of the tunnel  The folks at Feliks must be really busy these days - they really deserve the fame - Elise is such a wonderful amp!


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Just 2h before 1st of December ends I receive two mails - hdtracks finally sorts out my album & refund issue (apparently they have "just" one support guy in hdtracks.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 HOORAY for you Nep. !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 FAME is the word for Elise. She started out modest but she's about to achieve super stardom. All it takes is for a well known audio reviewer to have an unbiased  listen, write a good report and the rest is history.  The orders will stream in a mile long.
  
 I can't resist this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  'Remember my name'  !!!  It's ELISE.
 
  
*ELISE*​ Baby, look at me and tell me what do you see?​​ You ain't seen the best of me yet​​ Give me time, I'll make you forget the rest​​ I've got more in me, and you can set it free​​ I can catch the moon in my hand​​ Don't you know who I am?​​ Remember my name​


----------



## UntilThen

Magic adapters for the FDD20s have arrived. It will be a busy day at Santa's workshop.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Just 2h before 1st of December ends I receive two mails - hdtracks finally sorts out my album & refund issue (apparently they have "just" one support guy in hdtracks.com :blink: ) and... *drumroll* Lukasz tells me the hum is gone   I still have no full understanding what they did... "Diagnosis is that the Melz drivers are playing up - we opened and cleaned up both of the drivers and now hum is gone." I have asked him whether they did any change to the amp or if it was just a bad pair of tubes. I hope the latter is correct as the hum occured with all other drivers I have tested in the meantime. Let's see - there is light at the end of the tunnel  The folks at Feliks must be really busy these days - they really deserve the fame - Elise is such a wonderful amp!




Good news on both fronts, Neph!

I too, hope they did something to ensure that all tubes will now be hum free. Let's hope they expedite the amp back to you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

After a lot of visits to various combinations of Tubes the last two days...

This remains my favorite tube compliment (and by a wide margin):




2x FDD20 (etched glass Philips/Miniwatt) and Tung-Sol 5998's.

Makes beautiful music with Beyer DT-990 and Sony NWZ-A17 DAP as source.

Cheers to all in here, we are the LUCKY ones!



.


----------



## UntilThen

I popped in 2 FDD20 and....


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> After a lot of visits to various combinations of Tubes the last two days...
> 
> This remains my favorite tube compliment (and by a wide margin):
> 
> ...


  



untilthen said:


> I popped in 2 FDD20 and....


 
 Guess I'll have to order one more adapter for the FDD20 to try this. I really liked the sound of the one FDD20 in the 2031 combo. 
  
 What powers are you running them with UT?


----------



## UntilThen

If you told me before I bought Elise that I have to wear 2 eye patches, I would never have believe you. What I am hearing now knock me off my chair. Then I crawl back to it, sat down and my heart started pumping like Jim Carrey's.
  
 1st impression is important. If a tube is good, you're going to hear it, regardless of it being brand new. These pair of carbon coated FDD20 is brand new alright. I power it up and it lit up and happy smile. Strap on my HD650 and no hum, even bigger smile. Hit play on Leonard Cohen's 'In My Secret Life' and I was smiling like the moon. Put on HE560 and I was smiling crazy.
  
 So I use GE 6AS7GA not wanting to damage my good power tubes, in case these FDD20 explodes but it didn't and it sounded awesome. Guess the GE 6AS7GAs are really something. Do yourself a favour, buy a pair for $22. With the GE 6AS7GA, there's no lacking in bass. I'm ready to sell off my ECC31. I'm sure the Chatham 6520, 6AS7G and 5998 will bring further surprises.
  
 I'm so glad I have 8 FDD20 2 of which are the Philips Miniwatt, which is still on a slow boat from Italy. I am now wondering, do I really need the other drivers? Maybe ... variety is the spice of life.
  
 I use screw on connectors in the meantime.

  
 I think I've found something better than the 2031...didn't know the day will come. JV is right, 2 FDD20 is da bomb.
  
 Mrs Xu Ling, if you're reading this, I just want to say 'Thank You' ...I'm your fan now.
  
 Further impressions to follow after I have listen for a few days and I have gotten over the initial euphoria.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Guess I'll have to order one more adapter for the FDD20 to try this. I really liked the sound of the one FDD20 in the 2031 combo.


 
 Suuup you really must try 2 FDD20.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> So I use GE 6AS7GA not wanting to damage my good power tubes, in case these FDD20 explodes but it didn't and it sounded awesome. Guess the GE 6AS7GAs are really something. Do yourself a favour, buy a pair for $22. With the GE 6AS7GA, there's no lacking in bass. I'm ready to sell off my ECC31. I'm sure the Chatham 6520, 6AS7G and 5998 will bring further surprises.
> 
> I'm so glad I have 8 FDD20 2 of which are the Philips Miniwatt, which is still on a slow boat from Italy. I am now wondering, do I really need the other drivers? Maybe ... variety is the spice of life.
> 
> ...




LOL...glad nothing 'sploded, UT.

Some points:
1> Wait till the RVC's have 150+ hours on them!
2> Wait till you pair them with 5998's!
3> Wait till you get the Philips/Miniwatt versions...

I'm tellin' ya...if these tubes had been 6.3 volt in Octal Bases...there would be ZERO avail for us today, they would have been Legendary and cost more than ECC32's!!!

I cannot believe the quality of my pair...from Feb 10, 1943!!! Made during WWII when Italy was aligned with Hitler and Japan. Seems crazy to me the quality...that beautiful blue glass...

Was reading the other day about the extreme shabby quality of the Italian War Machine...their shells exploded successful less tha 1/2 the time. Their rifles of extreme poor quality. Thier tanks fell apart and littered the battlegrounds 

The Italian people must not have had their efforts behind the war.

Read all that then observe this extreme quality in this tube, made in those conditions...

It's rather remarkable!!!!

Cheers to all...as I am throughly entertained by a 1943 war time vacuum that is trapped in my beautiful Italian tubes...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL...glad nothing 'sploded, UT.
> 
> Some points:
> 1> Wait till the RVC's have 150+ hours on them!
> ...


 
 JV, how much better are your Philips / Miniwatt than the RVC? I thought RVC bought the FDD20 from Philips and just sprayed them. Is this not correct?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> JV, how much better are your Philips / Miniwatt than the RVC? I thought RVC bought the FDD20 from Philips and just sprayed them. Is this not correct?




Not night and day better. But better. Took WAY less burn in time to fully blossom. 

The C3g production...all tubes were measured, ones that exceeded specs were labeled "S". 

I believe that is what we have here...the best measuring FDD20 were retained for Philips/Miniwatt etching. 

H1 immediately noted his Philips/Miniwatt was a little better, too...

RVC - no slouch....after considerable burn in...


----------



## JazzVinyl

And I am speculating on Philips/Miniwatt Etched FDD20, heck we don't even have an Official spec sheet!!!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Not night and day better. But better. Took WAY less burn in time to fully blossom.
> 
> The C3g production...all tubes were measured, ones that exceeded specs were labeled "S".
> 
> ...


 
 Ah, that makes perfect sense. I'm thinking about getting the pair on Ebay right now, but I'm not sure yet. There are so many tubes I want to buy right now. Still looking for more Fivre 6N7G brown-base.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Ah, that makes perfect sense. I'm thinking about getting the pair on Ebay right now, but I'm not sure yet. There are so many tubes I want to buy right now. Still looking for more Fivre 6N7G brown-base.




I'll bet the Fivre 6N7G brown bases...are super nice Italian tubes, too! Wish I had a pair of those. You have a pair coming via Suuup, no?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Some points:
> 1> Wait till the RVC's have 150+ hours on them!
> 2> Wait till you pair them with 5998's!
> 3> Wait till you get the Philips/Miniwatt versions...





> Well I've just done 2. 5998 is indeed the real deal. They aren't called 5998 for nothing !!!





> In all seriousness, 2 FDD20 with 5998 is indeed much better but IMO the GE 6AS7GA is quite enjoyable too. When you compared $22 to $239, it's a no brainer.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> I'll bet the Fivre 6N7G brown bases...are super nice Italian tubes, too! Wish I had a pair of those. You have a pair coming via Suuup, no?


 
 I have a pair, well I have 3 tubes, but one doesn't seem to be working right. UT has a pair coming as well, which I found on Ebay. I'll let people know if I find more! I still have feelers out there, which might get results.


----------



## UntilThen

So the 64 million dollars question is...are the Philips Miniwatts FDD20 better than the Fivre 6N7G brown base? I'll be finding out soon...after 300 hours of burn in for all those tubes. !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> So the 64 million dollars question is...are the Philips Miniwatts FDD20 better than the Fivre 6N7G brown base? I'll be finding out soon...after 300 hours of burn in for all those tubes. !!!


 
 Actually, I didn't find the Fivres to need much burn in. 10-15 hours did it for mine. I'm really looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## JazzVinyl

editor mis-quoted...RE Fivre 6N7G brown bases....

Sounds good, Suuup!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> So the 64 million dollars question is...are the Philips Miniwatts FDD20 better than the Fivre 6N7G brown base? I'll be finding out soon...after 300 hours of burn in for all those tubes. !!!




This WILL be interesting!! One thing we know for sure....Italian tubes are great


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> This WILL be interesting!! One thing we know for sure....Italian tubes are great


 
 They do indeed! It seems we have all shifted towards European tubes instead of American tubes. French, British and Italian. And Dutch? Aren't H1's EL3N Dutch?


----------



## UntilThen

Yes the EL3N I'm sending him is Made in Holland. That's a work in progress. That might beat all the FDD20 and Fivre brown base lol.


----------



## UntilThen

However much I try to get more info on FDD20 I couldn't, except this data:-
  

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] Manufacturer = Ital . Uf = 12.6V indirectly If = 0.35 A Ua = 250 V Ug1 = - 5 V Ia = 6 mA μ = 33 S = 3 mA / V Ri = 18,000 ohms[/color]
```
  
 Radio museum says 'With exception of heater ratings and base, *this tube is very similar to 6A6 and 6N7G*'.
  
 Is it any wonder why I love the FDD20 so much. Those are my favourites. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Listening with Chatham 6520, the FDD20s are really amazing. Very natural sounding.


----------



## nephilim

I am almost crying... for joy 
  
 When Lukasz told me they identified the drivers to be the reason for the hum I replied that the problem also occured with other drivers, too. Today he sent another mail - my response made them open the amp again and they actually found a loose resistor. They are highly confident that #11 is working perfectly now 
  
 I was delighted already but it seems that once my amp is back I will be in heaven!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> So the 64 million dollars question is...are the Philips Miniwatts FDD20 better than the Fivre 6N7G brown base? I'll be finding out soon...after 300 hours of burn in for all those tubes. !!!


 
 Hi UT...suspected you might be seduced by the glorious sound of 2x FDD20s, lol...exciting indeed!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Glad you like it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and can't wait for _that_ shootout!!


untilthen said:


> Yes the EL3N I'm sending him is Made in Holland. That's a work in progress. *That might beat all the FDD20 and Fivre brown base lol.*


 
 Would love that to be the case UT...but as per below, that would indeed be asking for a miracle lol!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...mind you, *two* EL3Ns per driver?...what am I saying???!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> However much I try to get more info on FDD20 I couldn't, except this data:-
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
 No wonder the FDD20 is such an exciting tube...just look at that gain figure, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Coupled with a more forward soundstage than the ECC31, this could well explain a good bit of its attraction. An obvious winner! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (But I have to admit to still preferring the slightly more subtle rendering of the 2031..._in my own setup!_).
  
 Looks like when I suggested to Lukasz a long while ago now that he try to find a good source for the FDD20 - and provide the necessary 12V in a possible Elise MK2 - I should have _insisted_ he does, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially as you and/or JV also mentioned this tube to him, I believe...
  
 But as for _half_ the EL3N's 19 gain vs a full *33* of the FDD20?....mmmmmm....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....miracle time indeed!! But shall give it a try nonetheless - perhaps the 3N's higher transconductance might just help a little?...we will see...
  
  


nephilim said:


> I am almost crying... for joy
> 
> When Lukasz told me they identified the drivers to be the reason for the hum I replied that the problem also occured with other drivers, too. Today he sent another mail - my response made them open the amp again and they actually found a loose resistor. They are highly confident that #11 is working perfectly now
> 
> I was delighted already but it seems that once my amp is back I will be in heaven!


 
  
 Wonderful news, neph...in heaven?...no, _much_ higher even!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I am real happy for you - CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

Folks...while we're on the subject of the FDD20, another great bonus of this tube is it's *12 Volt heater*.
  
 A good few people on different threads have commented on 12V versions often being _quieter_ than 6V ones. And I can certainly vouch for that with this marvellous tube...the most deathly, black background I have ever encountered, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 ENJOY!...


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I am almost crying... for joy
> 
> When Lukasz told me they identified the drivers to be the reason for the hum I replied that the problem also occured with other drivers, too. Today he sent another mail - my response made them open the amp again and they actually found a loose resistor. They are highly confident that #11 is working perfectly now
> 
> I was delighted already but it seems that once my amp is back I will be in heaven!


 

 Nep I almost cry with you. I remember you going to the garden to test out Elise in the garden shed power point. Well all good things comes to the one who love. Sung by Sissel.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> No wonder the FDD20 is such an exciting tube...just look at that gain figure, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well H1, I didn't know how to interpret those figures but now that you mention a gain of 33, I too sit upright. FDD20 is indeed a special tube. I like 2 FDD20 because to my ears they sound more defined, clear and precise. Midrange is so seductively sweet with Sissel or rugged in the case of Leonard. Bass is quality bass and supplemented by the Chatham, 5998 or GE, they are there in abundance.
  
 I will still visit 2031. It was my favourite and will remain high in my rankings. Another special combination. Who would have known we're all enticed by 12V.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well H1, I didn't know how to interpret those figures but now that you mention a gain of 33, I too sit upright. FDD20 is indeed a special tube. I like 2 FDD20 because to my ears they sound more defined, clear and precise. Midrange is so seductively sweet with Sissel or rugged in the case of Leonard. Bass is quality bass and supplemented by the Chatham, 5998 or GE, they are there in abundance.
> 
> I will still visit 2031. It was my favourite and will remain high in my rankings. Another special combination. Who would have known we're all enticed by 12V.


 
  
 Hi UT...looks like the 2x FDD20 option would be a safer bet for folks after all...and a _cheaper_ one, lol! - so long as they are still available at a _reasonable  _price...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(unless you've exhausted all the 'RVC' branded ones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Perhaps - unlike that recent so-called Nazi loot train (whatever happened to that story?!) - there's a wartime stash (mountain-sized!!) of FDD20s somewhere in the Italian Alps/Dolomites....Lukasz, get treasure hunting!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps.  As JV says, it'll be interesting to see if you too notice any (slight) difference with the Philips 'etched' tubes vs non-etched.
  
 (And I bet you've now got your own stash safely in the Australian equivalent of Fort Knox lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I was thinking that too. 2 FDD20 is a lot cheaper than if you factor in a ECC31. The seller that I bought the FDD20 from, still has a lot of those tubes. I suspect he has an endless supply. Let's hope he doesn't raise the price. They are selling for 22 euros each. I think JV got them for 3 for $30 and he got the Philips Miniwatt ones. I had to pay $69 for my pair.
  
 At the beginning I wanted ECC31 so much. I paid $200 for a NOS pair. Compared that to 44 euros for a NOS pair of FDD20. 
  
 What is good for most people now, are the adapters from xulingmrs. Preconfigured with the wires makes it so neat and easy to hook up 12V power supply. Plus the tubes sit in the adapters neatly now. Previously they have to clip onto the wire, thereby causing it to slant but now they sit upright. Thanks to JV who did all the ground work, to get the seller to make these special adapters.
  
 Our tube rolling journey has come a long way. C3G is sitting in my drawer, not getting much run time now lol. So are the other 6SN7s. If I have to start again, I would have just gotten FDD20s and a pair of GEC 6AS7G. That is all I need.


----------



## Suuup

Whoa, I just got scared for a minute. I just turned on the my Elise and started "Old Pigweed" by Mark Knopfler. The sound was boring and dry. I had no idea what was going on. I looked confused over at the Elise. Then I noticed, I had plugged my headphones into the Aune S16. Boy is there a big difference!
  
 Also, I got a package today from our adapter queen, Xulingmrs. It was my replacement pair of ECC31 -> 6SN7 adapters, the black plastic ones. They've been in transit for 2 months now. To be honest, I had forgotten all about them, as I have already received the golden pair, which I use instead (with no hum!!). 
  
 As JV says, we are indeed the lucky ones! Cheers.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yes I was thinking that too. 2 FDD20 is a lot cheaper than if you factor in a ECC31. The seller that I bought the FDD20 from, still has a lot of those tubes. I suspect he has an endless supply. Let's hope he doesn't raise the price. They are selling for 22 euros each. I think JV got them for 3 for $30 and he got the Philips Miniwatt ones. I had to pay $69 for my pair.
> 
> At the beginning I wanted ECC31 so much. I paid $200 for a NOS pair. Compared that to 44 euros for a NOS pair of FDD20.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aahh UT...welcome to the mixed-blessing world of tube rolling! - my own drawer is overflowing with the _multitude_ of different tubes we used in our LittleDots before finally settling on a fairly wide concensus of 'best' tubes, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...a classic case of _*if only*_..._*the 'journey'...etc. etc.!!!*_
  
 I console myself in the assumption that we may never have reached such end results, without having made said journey. And for me, certainly, each progression has brought a greater understanding of what actually constitutes 'good'/'better' sound...and helps reduce the pain of $$$$$ spent!! (plus, there's always the possibility of at least _some_ of those tubes appreciating in value? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...So hang in there, sell what you can at a profit, and get those GECs lol!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Our tube rolling journey has come a long way. C3G is sitting in my drawer, not getting much run time now lol. So are the other 6SN7s. If I have to start again, I would have just gotten FDD20s and a pair of GEC 6AS7G. That is all I need.




Amen to that!! I would do the same if I could start over 

But you don't know, until you get there. And for sure, there are a lot of tubes that sound great in the Elise.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> I am almost crying... for joy
> 
> When Lukasz told me they identified the drivers to be the reason for the hum I replied that the problem also occured with other drivers, too. Today he sent another mail - my response made them open the amp again and they actually found a loose resistor. They are highly confident that #11 is working perfectly now
> 
> I was delighted already but it seems that once my amp is back I will be in heaven!




Perfect news, Neph!! Cheers for hum-free!!! 

#11 is coming home!


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 I am presently using a pair of tubes with a gain of 19 with excellent results - the 6BL7GT. JV reports that they don't mate well with his 600 ohm headphones. The Elise almost goes into clipping with these tubes.
  
 I do not have any problems driving my 37 ohm headphones, However, using these tubes with the Elise as a preamp, which is how I listen 99.9% of the time, I have ample volume and more, even though I have to turn up the volume on the Elise for the headphones to 12 o'clock; the amp also requires more volume, but does not run out of steam at all.
  
 And, I have to say this, I am more happy with the sound of the 6BL7GT tubes than my pair of Mazda 6N7G tubes. _*Chevy beats Bugatti.*_
  
 The Mazda has a wider sound stage. Think of aspect ratio in digital cameras and TV screens. The Mazda is 16/9; the 6BL7 is 3/2. But overall the sound from the 6BL7 tubes suits my taste better. This tube is more dynamic and quick, with more energy in the FR extremes and more detail and clarity.
  
 And I am happy to see that people are starting to appreciate the 6AS7GA as power tubes - how can something so cheap and plentiful be so good? Well, wait until you try the 6BL7 - even cheaper and more plentiful.
  
 So there - I said it. YMMV......
  





Lingenfelter C7 Corvette Stingray 417 CID Twin Turbo LT1 1,000 HP








 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 1,001 HP


----------



## Suuup

There's something that's been bothering me. My setup is quite microphonic. I can hear it when I move my mouse, which gets quite annoying after a while. Are there any tips to isolate the Elise from the table, so it wouldn't pick up as much noise?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yes I was thinking that too. 2 FDD20 is a lot cheaper than if you factor in a ECC31. The seller that I bought the FDD20 from, still has a lot of those tubes. I suspect he has an endless supply. Let's hope he doesn't raise the price. They are selling for 22 euros each. I think JV got them for 3 for $30 and he got the Philips Miniwatt ones. I had to pay $69 for my pair.


 
  
 UT:  Can you tell us where you are getting the FDD20s? Seems they have totally disappeared from EBay ((


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> There's something that's been bothering me. My setup is quite microphonic. I can hear it when I move my mouse, which gets quite annoying after a while. Are there any tips to isolate the Elise from the table, so it wouldn't pick up as much noise?


 
 First you must be sure that the noise is due to micro shock/move on your table and not due to electrical noise through the DAC / USB or Radio !
  
 For shock i use since many year a 15mm thick rubber carpet (antivibrating) and/or 10 mm thick marble square 50/50 under each feet. Some like decoupling ball/base or cone feet plus decoupling base.
  
 For RFI, never use radio/nano mouse near the amp, do not put your wifi emmiter/receiver or your phone too close to the tubes. This is generating RFI and older tubes are more sensitive to it as the glass is less elaborated than for newer production (post 1970) .


----------



## pctazhp

UT:  Disregard last message. Found the RVCs on Ebay and ordered a pair. Also ordered a pair of Mrs. Euling's magic FDD20 adapters, a 12V grounded power supply and this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 You guys are ruining my life )))  My Elise hasn't even shipped and seems like my tube stash is growing each day!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> You guys are ruining my life )))  My Elise hasn't even shipped and seems like my tube stash is growing each day!!!




Ouy!

Welcome to the club, pctazhp!!

Hopefully your life will be graciously enhanced, in the end


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  Disregard last message. Found the RVCs on Ebay and ordered a pair. Also ordered a pair of Mrs. Euling's magic FDD20 adapters, a 12V grounded power supply and this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> You guys are ruining my life )))  My Elise hasn't even shipped and seems like my tube stash is growing each day!!!


 

 LOL @pctazhp. I saw the seller have 10 left yesterday but 4 now lol. How did it go so fast? You don't need the voltage regulator if you're just running 1 or 2 FDD20. That is needed if you want to step down to 6.3V with the power supply you bought for the 6BL7 tubes.
  
 Welcome to the club that buys tubes ready before Elise arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Ouy!
> 
> Welcome to the club, pctazhp!!
> 
> Hopefully your life will be graciously enhanced, in the end


 

 JV, we said the same thing at the same time !!!  Welcome to the club...
  
 I couldn't sleep last night. My mind was drifting into FDD20 land...I woke up surrounded by a pile of those tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> UT:  Disregard last message. Found the RVCs on Ebay and ordered a pair. Also ordered a pair of Mrs. Euling's magic FDD20 adapters, a 12V grounded power supply and this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400623124216?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> You guys are ruining my life )))  My Elise hasn't even shipped and seems like my tube stash is growing each day!!!


 
  
 Hey pct...with those tubes you have, you won't _need_ any more - _*guaranteed!!*_...(apart from a nice pair of GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834!!...just mortgage the house, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> I am presently using a pair of tubes with a gain of 19 with excellent results - the 6BL7GT. JV reports that they don't mate well with his 600 ohm headphones. The Elise almost goes into clipping with these tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Mordy, I'm glad you found tubes that are to your liking. Cheap and good is the way to go. After all we still need to buy that black Bugatti....which is the same colour of my car. I just have to imagine I'm driving a Bugatti.
  
 Now that you have 1 FDD20 coming, I suggest you get another. You need twin power FDD20.
  
 As for the GE 6AS7GA from Parts Express, I've like it for a while but it was just sitting in my drawer. It just wasn't getting enough play time because I was swooned by the 5998, Chatham and Mullard.


----------



## hypnos1

Mordy...unfortunately, the 19 gain of the EL3N pentode is halved when triode-strapped - hence the uncertainty, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad you are pleased with the 6BL7s used in preamp mode...shame they don't have the versatility for wide-ranging cans.
  
 And eagerly awaiting the arrival of those tubes chez vous...gonna be real interesting, lol...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Aahh UT...welcome to the mixed-blessing world of tube rolling! - my own drawer is overflowing with the _multitude_ of different tubes we used in our LittleDots before finally settling on a fairly wide concensus of 'best' tubes, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well H1, much as I love the FDD20s now, I've not regretted my other purchase. At heart I'm a selective collector and I believe variety is the spice of life. So now I have tubes for all occasions and all moods and all genre. I even have Dubsteps tubes !!!


----------



## aqsw

Man, You guys are costing me money.
 JV is sending me an fdd 20 with adaptor. (which I was going to use with the ecc31 I just bought. $$)for a 2031.
 I went and bought another fdd20 for an extra. Now that I will have two fdd20s and thats summit fi, I need two adaptors.
  
 I am getting one from jv, but I want them to look the same, so I bought 2 from the mrsx.
  
 Now that the Mazdas are not cats a## anymore, what am I going to do with the 4 I bought?
  
 This is so much FUN!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I agree with UT though. No regrets, and I dont even have my amp yet. I will love the rolling, figure it out myself, and sell what Im not
 going to use.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Man, You guys are costing me money.
> JV is sending me an fdd 20 with adaptor. (which I was going to use with the ecc31 I just bought. $$)for a 2031.
> I went and bought another fdd20 for an extra. Now that I will have two fdd20s and thats summit fi, I need two adaptors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome also to the (MAD!) world of tube rolling, aqsw....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....you are by no means alone...


----------



## aqsw

Found an old PS from a portable drive enclosure.
  
 Is a 12 volt 1.5 amp ps good enough for two fdd20s ?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Man, You guys are costing me money.
> JV is sending me an fdd 20 with adaptor. (which I was going to use with the ecc31 I just bought. $$)for a 2031.
> I went and bought another fdd20 for an extra. Now that I will have two fdd20s and thats summit fi, I need two adaptors.
> 
> ...


 

 Aqsw those Mazdas are very special tubes. Don't even think for a minute they are not cats whatever you call them. Certainly listen to them and keep it. Their price will only appreciate with time.
  
 Buying those 2 special adapters from xulingmrs is the right thing to do. And certainly 2 FDD20s. Well done !!!


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw those Mazdas are very special tubes. Don't even think for a minute they are not cats whatever you call them. Certainly listen to them and keep it. Their price will only appreciate with time.
> 
> Buying those 2 special adapters from xulingmrs is the right thing to do. And certainly 2 FDD20s. Well done !!!


 
 Don't worry UT, those Mazdas will get a some running time. I'm not giving up on them. Going to leave 2 of them NOS for now though.
  
 Regards


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Found an old PS from a portable drive enclosure.
> 
> Is a 12 volt 1.5 amp ps good enough for two fdd20s ?


 

 I think they might be but I need JV or H1 to confirm. They are the experts. I would urge you to buy a 12V, with 3 to 6A, AC adapter with ground pin(i.e. 3 pins). That way you don't need to separately ground it with another wire to the RCA socket on Elise. And don't slice off the end tip of the new AC adapter. With new male and female connectors it will fit right in.
  
 These.. The green plugs may not be JV's recommendation due to it being cheap and nasty but I think for our purpose I'm willing to try it.
  
 Alternatively get those male and female plugs that he showed a few pages back. Those are robust and good.
  
  

  
 Or just use screw on connectors like what I'm doing now. 
 Twist red wires from both FDD20 adapters with the PS negative wire together and screw cap it. Then twist black wires from both FDD20 adapters with the PS positive wire together and screw cap it. That's it. Power on and quickly hide under your desk.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I think they might be but I need JV or H1 to confirm. They are the experts. I would urge you to buy a 12V, with 3 to 6A, AC adapter with ground pin(i.e. 3 pins). That way you don't need to separately ground it with another wire to the RCA socket on Elise. And don't slice off the end tip of the new AC adapter. With new male and female connectors it will fit right in.


 
 This one has the ground, might be a little short on the amperage.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> This one has the ground, might be a little short on the amperage.


 

 I think 1.5A might be sufficient on 2 FDD20. Can anyone confirm? @JazzVinyl ???
  
 A brand new 12V 6A AC adapter with ground cost just AUD$20. Get a new one Aqsw.


----------



## aqsw

That's what Im doing.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I think 1.5A might be sufficient on 2 FDD20. Can anyone confirm? @JazzVinyl
> ???
> 
> A brand new 12V 6A AC adapter with ground cost just AUD$20. Get a new one Aqsw.



1.5 A should be plenty for two FDD20.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Found an old PS from a portable drive enclosure.
> 
> Is a 12 volt 1.5 amp ps good enough for two fdd20s ?




Yep, that will work just fine.

.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> 1.5 A should be plenty for two FDD20.


 

 Good to know that. Meanwhile 2 FDD20 even sounded great with GE 6AS7G (RCA 6AS7G equivalent). These power tubes are darker, warmer and lusher sounding. It has reverb. Less sparkle.  I think good sound can be obtained quite cheaply now with tubes on Elise.
  
 Going through all my power tubes now with 2 FDD20. Will provide feedback later.
  
 OMG...I think the Philips Miniwatt FDD20s have arrived....


----------



## UntilThen

Came in a lunch box...Grazie Giannoni !!!
  
 Not the same height ... Tom and Jerry. Tubes are so clean. I don't even need to wipe it.
  
 No touchup to the photos. Don't they look gorgeous. 25th Mar 1942.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Came in a lunch box...Grazie Giannoni !!!
> 
> Not the same height ... Tom and Jerry. Tubes are so clean. I don't even need to wipe it.
> 
> No touchup to the photos. Don't they look gorgeous. 25th Mar 1942.




If you notice....just like my pair from 1943...the thickness of the bases are not the same. One is a little thicker than the other (where the bottle meets the base).


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> First you must be sure that the noise is due to micro shock/move on your table and not due to electrical noise through the DAC / USB or Radio !
> 
> For shock i use since many year a 15mm thick rubber carpet (antivibrating) and/or 10 mm thick marble square 50/50 under each feet. Some like decoupling ball/base or cone feet plus decoupling base.
> 
> For RFI, never use radio/nano mouse near the amp, do not put your wifi emmiter/receiver or your phone too close to the tubes. This is generating RFI and older tubes are more sensitive to it as the glass is less elaborated than for newer production (post 1970) .


 
 I'm absolutely sure it's from shock / vibration. I learned pretty quickly that one shouldn't keep his phone near the Elise, as it induces a lot of noise. This is what those cone feet are for? I was wondering why people installed spikes beneath their amps. Makes more sense now. I have to get myself an anti vibration mat, but the only ones I can find are for washing machines, and they're quite ugly all of them. Do you have any recommendations? Can we actually use those cone / spike feet for the Elise?
  
 Edit: Would these work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-set-D39mm-Sound-Isolation-Feet-Speaker-Spikes-Audio-Cones-HiFi-Mounts-/252071195339. How do you mount those?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> If you notice....just like my pair from 1943...the thickness of the bases are not the same. One is a little thicker than the other (where the bottle meets the base).


 
 JV, I examine the tubes and they look exactly identical until you pointed out about the base. See from the photo, it's obvious they are different the base thickness.


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> I'm absolutely sure it's from shock / vibration. I learned pretty quickly that one shouldn't keep his phone near the Elise, as it induces a lot of noise. This is what those cone feet are for? I was wondering why people installed spikes beneath their amps. Makes more sense now. I have to get myself an anti vibration mat, but the only ones I can find are for washing machines, and they're quite ugly all of them. Do you have any recommendations? Can we actually use those cone / spike feet for the Elise?
> 
> Edit: Would these work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-set-D39mm-Sound-Isolation-Feet-Speaker-Spikes-Audio-Cones-HiFi-Mounts-/252071195339. How do you mount those?


 
  
 I'm not familiar with those particular cones, but most cones like that do not actually "mount". You would just balance your Elise on the cones with the points facing down. The bases sit on your table and the cone points fit into the holes. Some people might suggest it would be better to use only 3 of the cones rather than 4. This opens up a great new horizon. We can start an Elise cone rolling thread ))))  https://www.gcaudio.com/templates/isolation%20devices.html


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Ouy!
> 
> Welcome to the club, pctazhp!!
> 
> Hopefully your life will be graciously enhanced, in the end


 
 Thanks JV)) I'm sure my audio future is very bright.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm absolutely sure it's from shock / vibration. I learned pretty quickly that one shouldn't keep his phone near the Elise, as it induces a lot of noise. This is what those cone feet are for? I was wondering why people installed spikes beneath their amps. Makes more sense now. I have to get myself an anti vibration mat, but the only ones I can find are for washing machines, and they're quite ugly all of them. Do you have any recommendations? Can we actually use those cone / spike feet for the Elise?
> 
> Edit: Would these work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-set-D39mm-Sound-Isolation-Feet-Speaker-Spikes-Audio-Cones-HiFi-Mounts-/252071195339. How do you mount those?


 
 Again I'm the hum free, vibration free one. I put my mobile phone right next to Elise and I get no feedback at all. I might have to teach Elise how to use the phone. With the 6N7 though I feel vibration when my finger touch the metal shield. 
  
 As such I have no need for cones except I might like a set of gold feet to make it look bling.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hey pct...with those tubes you have, you won't _need_ any more - _*guaranteed!!*_...(apart from a nice pair of GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834!!...just mortgage the house, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My wife just told me I'm not allowed to google any more tubes for the next 3 months )))


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> I'm not familiar with those particular cones, but most cones like that do not actually "mount". You would just balance your Elise on the cones with the points facing down. The bases sit on your table and the cone points fit into the holes. Some people might suggest it would be better to use only 3 of the cones rather than 4. This opens up a great new horizon. We can start an Elise cone rolling thread ))))  https://www.gcaudio.com/templates/isolation%20devices.html


 
 I'm not sure how these cones work. It seems to me vibration would still be able to pass through the cones? Are there any consensus regarding what materials are better than others? I can find both stainless steel, silver, copper and brass. 
  
 Interesting about using only 3 cones. It makes sense that it would be better. I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be using only 3. I sometimes have to put quite a lot of pressure to put in new tubes. I'd be afraid the Elise would tip. I guess that could be accounted for though. 
  
 I'm skeptical about these feet, but I ordered a pair anyway. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Turntable-Hi-Fi-Isolation-Feet-Gold-Plated-Audio-Isolating-Cones-ISOFEE02-/151281295046?hash=item2339115ec6:g:9IcAAOxycD9TT90G These are the ones I got, since they're from the UK, and there'll be no import tax. Hope they work!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


>


 

 OMG I want those gold feet NOW.
  
 3 Turntable & Hi Fi Isolation Feet - Gold Plated Audio Isolating Cones with Floor or Shelf Protection Shoes

Height-adjustable spike for critical audio isolation
Suitable for use under turntables and other audio devices
May be used under speaker cabinets
Gold plated finish
Supplied as a set of 3 spikes and 3 floor protection shoes


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> LOL @pctazhp. I saw the seller have 10 left yesterday but 4 now lol. How did it go so fast? You don't need the voltage regulator if you're just running 1 or 2 FDD20. That is needed if you want to step down to 6.3V with the power supply you bought for the 6BL7 tubes.
> 
> Welcome to the club that buys tubes ready before Elise arrives.


 
 Glad I don't have to worry about the regulator. It looks intimidating ))


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Again I'm the hum free, vibration free one. I put my mobile phone right next to Elise and I get no feedback at all. I might have to teach Elise how to use the phone. With the 6N7 though I feel vibration when my finger touch the metal shield.
> 
> As such I have no need for cones except I might like a set of gold feet to make it look bling.


 
 Try having your phone next to the Elise and then load a website. I'll bet that there'll be noise from RFI. Vibration depends a lot on the tube. Not all tubes are equally microphonic. My 6F8G are *insanely *microphonic. They're like a small radar. If anything within 2 meters I can hear it. I'm not even kidding. My Fivres seem to be a bit microphonic as well, although not anywhere near the level of my 6F8G. 
  
  

  


untilthen said:


> OMG I want those gold feet NOW.


 
 Hahahaha, they look pretty bling yea. Have you seen the LD MK VIII someone here on Head-Fi has? Now THAT is bling. Let me find a picture..


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> Glad I don't have to worry about the regulator. It looks intimidating ))


 
 I wouldn't worry about that. If you ever have to use those, there'll be plenty of help to get here in the thread.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> OMG I want those gold feet NOW.


 

 Now THIS is bling.


----------



## pctazhp

Me too!!! Now watch the price skyrocket on Ebay ))
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> OMG I want those gold feet NOW.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Now THIS is bling.


 
 My eyes hurt looking at that LOL. Too much sparkle !!! No...what's he done to the tube amp. It's like a jewel box lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Now why did you make me spend more money on gold feet. Next gold cables?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Now THIS is bling.





HAHA!!

Wow!! Reminds me of a car I saw one, where the guy had "welded on" every little metal Knick Knack he had ever come across


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Now why did you make me spend more money on gold feet. Next gold cables?


 
 I'm not sure how gold cables would ever be better than silver, as silver has much better conductivity than gold. Even copper is better than gold. This is largely what makes cables snake oil. Sure, things like balanced vs non-balanced will most likely make a difference. You might even see a small improvement in silver cables over copper. And then some cables might offer better RFI shielding. But other than that, there shouldn't be any difference between cables. It's certainly not something to spend insane amounts of money on. 
  
 And don't even get me started on digital cables...

  
 Edit: I might've stepped on some toes here. Remember this is my opinion!


----------



## mordy

I am using three old aluminum cones under the Elise that I have since the 1980's when they were fashionable in Hi Fi. I attached them to the bottom of the amp with blue tack (actually yellow tack from the 99c store).
  
 The tripod works very well, and the Elise is very stable - put two under the transformer and one in the front middle.
  
 Regardless of the merits of the spiked feet, they lift the Elise about 1" off the shelf and thus provide better air flow for convection. The holes underneath and on top in front of the transformer are configured to aid in the convection air flow - bigger openings on the bottom plate.
  




  




  
  
 (These pictures are from the Little Dot MKIII amp, but the footers are doing duty on the Elise now.)
  
 I think that the theory is (was) that spiked feet channel vibrations into the shelf/rack/floor. The spiked feet certainly work in some situations. Remember putting screwed in spiked feet under very heavy 5' speakers on a wood floor - the sound snapped into focus in a very tangible way. Don't know how they work with amps, but I like the idea (see above).
  
 My equipment shelf is sitting on four little metal tabs inside the rack. I put four round glass marbles under the shelf at each tab as another vibration reducing device. Advocated by Steven Gutenberg many years ago. Hey, it was cheap enough (raided the kid's stash of glass marbles) and seemed to make sense, so why not!

  
  
 The cognoscenti are still debating if clear, green, or blue marbles work best. (This is supposed to be a joke.)
  
 Have fun with the footer Pandora's box!


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> I am using three old aluminum cones under the Elise that I have since the 1980's when they were fashionable in Hi Fi. I attached them to the bottom of the amp with blue tack (actually yellow tack from the 99c store).
> 
> The tripod works very well, and the Elise is very stable - put two under the transformer and one in the front middle.
> 
> ...


 
 Very interesting Mordy! Could you try tapping the shelf while wearing headphones, with the headphones plugged directly into the Elise, to see if Elise picks up any vibration?


----------



## mordy

This must be the inspiration for the bling amp:


----------



## mordy

Dear Elsie, I told you that there is a use for all those tube cartons I got in the mail!


----------



## mordy

Everybody recognizes the need for a matched pair:


----------



## mordy

How about an amp with 6 6BL7 Gran Turismo tubes? (There is a Glenn with 4 of them)
  




  
 Oops - a Bugatti limo.
  
 Hope that you got a good laugh out of these pictures!


----------



## Suuup

This is something I have to try someday. http://www.ebay.com/itm/4X-tube-1626-FIVRE-NOS-BROWN-BLACK-BASE-CLEAN-VT-137-CV1755-TRIODE-12-6VOLT-/262165252751?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 Those 4 in the Elise. Should work, right? With the dual adapters?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> This is something I have to try someday. http://www.ebay.com/itm/4X-tube-1626-FIVRE-NOS-BROWN-BLACK-BASE-CLEAN-VT-137-CV1755-TRIODE-12-6VOLT-/262165252751?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 Those 4 in the Elise. Should work, right? With the dual adapters?




A quick look on radio museum indicates that the pin out is different from others...heater pins are 2 and 7 instead of 7 and 8. So that means some other pins must be different too. 

A look on ebay, don't see an adapter for them. Do you?


----------



## JazzVinyl

CV1755:

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0158.htm

Not originally designed as an audio amplifier tube...


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> CV1755:
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0158.htm
> 
> Not originally designed as an audio amplifier tube...


 
 Ah, that's too bad. They're so pretty. I feel like doing a DIY project, just have to find the right one. EL3N is nice, but H1 is already doing that. Any other proposals?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Ah, that's too bad. They're so pretty. I feel like doing a DIY project, just have to find the right one. EL3N is nice, but H1 is already doing that. Any other proposals?


 

 If it's better sound which translates into beautiful music you're looking for, then 2 Philips Miniwatt FDD20 with Chatham power tubes is quite unbeatable. I'm not sure you need any DIY project unless you want to do something.
  
 I sit here listening in awe. I firmly believe I'm getting perfection overload. Anymore and I have to go to a rehab to dilute my ears.
  
 Unfortunately for those with RVC, the Philips Miniwatts FDD20 are an improvement but fortunately too, the difference is not much. However in the realm of audio, a small percentage is significant enough to make us want to empty our wallets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I repeat even though I'm listening with total joy on the Philips Miniwatt FDD20, let that not deter you from getting the RVC FDD20. You're not missing much.
  
 When I first plug in those tubes and start up, there was light only on one tube. The other was not lit. After a 30 secs or so, it lit up. Happiness and I started listening, then after a few songs the left channel has no sound. I look at Elise and saw that the left tube is unlit again. I heave a sigh. What is going on? So I unplug the misbehaving tube and inspected the contacts. They are black with paint. I look at my other RVC tubes and they are brass in colour. I took out my sandpaper and started gentle swipes on the contacts to review beautiful brass beneath. Plug it in again and hey presto it lit up like the stars.
  
 Morale of the story. Don't despair when at first it doesn't work. Don't stomp on the tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Proper review of the special FDD20 will be forth coming...after a few days.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Ah, that's too bad. They're so pretty. I feel like doing a DIY project, just have to find the right one. EL3N is nice, but H1 is already doing that. Any other proposals?




This looks interesting:

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2012_09_01_archive.html

7.5 volt and 1.25 amp current draw, so external power required and a custom adapter needed. 

http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/8/841.pdf


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> This looks interesting:
> 
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2012_09_01_archive.html
> 
> .


 
 Very interesting tube indeed. And it's a pretty one! I'm not sure how to make an adapter for a directly heated triode, though I guess I can look it up. It also appears that there aren't a whole lot of VT-51's on Ebay, so it might be hard to get a hold of a pair of these beauties. I'll have to look around for a bit.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Very interesting tube indeed. And it's a pretty one! I'm not sure how to make an adapter for a directly heated triode, though I guess I can look it up. It also appears that there aren't a whole lot of VT-51's on Ebay, so it might be hard to get a hold of a pair of these beauties. I'll have to look around for a bit.




You seem to have magic powers when it comes to digging up beautiful old triodes, Suuup...know you can do it


----------



## UntilThen

Thomas Meyer's blog is a mine of interesting stuff. I think we can discover more tubes just reading his posts. We should spread it out now. Don't roll every tube under the sun in one month !!!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> You seem to have magic powers when it comes to digging up beautiful old triodes, Suuup...know you can do it


 
 Thank you. I have gone through 10 pages on Google for Italian vacuum tube stores. Every site in Italian, sifting through their whole catalog, in pursuit of the Fivre 6N7G (I'm not even joking). I've contacted every seller of Italian tubes on Ebay that I could find.  
  
  


untilthen said:


> Thomas Meyer's blog is a mine of interesting stuff. I think we can discover more tubes just reading his posts. We should spread it out now. Don't roll every tube under the sun in one month !!!


 
 Don't worry, my wallet doesn't allow for that. Wish it did though. One day..


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thomas Meyer's blog is a mine of interesting stuff. I think we can discover more tubes just reading his posts. We should spread it out now. Don't roll every tube under the sun in one month !!!




See one 841 tube pictured on his site is branded: "MazdaRadio"


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> See one 841 tube pictured on his site is branded: "MazdaRadio"


 
 Yea, I want a pair of those. They're really pretty. I can only imagine how wonderful the sound must be.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is one for UT...female voice fan:

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nJT1u_760vg[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> See one 841 tube pictured on his site is branded: "MazdaRadio"


 
 Yes incredibly nice looking tube.
  
 But so is this.....


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> See one 841 tube pictured on his site is branded: "MazdaRadio"


 
 JV, the 841 is a triode, meaning we'd need 4 of them. Furthermore, it requires 7.5V heating, and it draws 1.2A pr tube. This would be a crazy DIY project. I'm salivating over here. 
  
 Now I want to make my own amp. Why must you do this to me JV? I'm going further and further down the rabbit hole. I must thank you though, I'm sitting here with a smile on my face, dreaming of making my own amp. 
  
 Don't think I could ever beat the Elise though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yep, have to get up pretty early the morning to beat FDD20's in sonics or looks!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is one for UT...female voice fan:


 
 Nearly half way into the song and there's no singing. All I see are beautiful ladies...  ah now the singing starts.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> JV, the 841 is a triode, meaning we'd need 4 of them. Furthermore, it requires 7.5V heating, and it draws 1.2A pr tube. This would be a crazy DIY project. I'm salivating over here.
> 
> Now I want to make my own amp. Why must you do this to me JV? I'm going further and further down the rabbit hole. I must thank you though, I'm sitting here with a smile on my face, dreaming of making my own amp.




You know what...after that computer you made....not a problem!!! I hope you do it, Suuup! I'll send ya $20.00 in support of the effort if you decide to really do it!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Nearly half way into the song and there's no singing. All I see are beautiful ladies...  ah now the singing starts.




Chris Botti opened for Dianna Krall at a show I saw at the famous Red Rocks venue up near Denver...

Great night, indeed!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Omg the left channel cut off again .....no light
  
 This is bad...may have a faulty tube. Any explanation on why this would happen? I'm into my 10th songs.
  
 WHY DID I BUY 73 YEARS OLD TUBES !!!!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Omg the left channel cut off again .....no light
> 
> This is bad...may have a faulty tube. Any explanation on why this would happen? I'm into my 10th songs.




Carefully check your PS connections....

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Carefully check your PS connections....
> 
> .


 

 Connections fine...I swap sides and the same problem tube didn't light up while the other light up. Replace with another RVC and it works fine. More sandpaper maybe.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Connections fine...I swap sides and the same problem tube didn't light up while the other light up. Replace with another RVC and it works fine. More sandpaper maybe.




Hmmmm...yes, rough up that outer edge...but it is not sounding positive. If it changes sides...

But do try polishing up those paddles...

I had one of my original RVC's go dead, after I dropped it a short distance 

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hmmmm...yes, rough up that outer edge...but it is not sounding positive. If it changes sides...
> 
> But do try polishing up those paddles...
> 
> ...


 

 Nope didn't drop mine. Handle with extreme care. After more sanding still the same. Replace with one of my RVC and it light up nicely, so clearly it's not the connection. I'll be contacting Mr. Da Vinci and hope he has replacement for me.
  
 If not then I've half a super tube combo hahahaha ....mix and match for the win !!!
  
 Maybe one Philips Miniwatt and one RVC might be greater magic. Listening to that now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Nope didn't drop mine. Handle with extreme care. After more sanding still the same. Replace with one of my RVC and it light up nicely, so clearly it's not the connection. I'll be contacting Mr. Da Vinci and hope he has replacement for me.




Hope he has another with the same date/codes on the Tax stamp!

The tubes are *ONLY* 73 years old...after all


----------



## Suuup

Wire material. Copper? Silver? Is 925 sterling silver okay? How about the jacket? Cloth? PVC? Heat shrink tubing? Hmm. Stranded? Or should it be solid? What's better. I have to know what solder to use. Unleaded? Nah, too hard to make good joints. 60/40? 63/37? Have to get a good soldering iron too. I wonder what the differences are between those. 20 W enough? No way. 50W? 60? 50W sounds good. Adjustable? Hell yea, that's what I need. Transformers? I know almost nothing about transformers. Buy one? Build my own? Rectifier tube diode or solid state diode?
  
 I think I'm staying with the Elise for quite a while yet to come. Let's do some adapters first and see how it goes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Suuup...

Good questions, all. There are some great "how to solder" tutorials on Youtube. Point to point soldering for tube amps, generally requires more solder and hotter irons than miniature PC board soldering.

If you look at the instructions for the Bottlehead (kit amps) it will give you a good idea.

If I were you....I would do it...heck, by the time you are an old man, you might be the only only guy left that knows "how to make 'em"!

Folks will be carrying you around, like a king!


----------



## JazzVinyl

All Hail...King Suuup!!!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup...
> 
> Good questions, all. There are some great "how to solder" tutorials on Youtube. Point to point soldering for tube amps, generally requires more solder and hotter irons than miniature PC board soldering.
> 
> ...


 
  


jazzvinyl said:


> All Hail...King Suuup!!!


 
 LOL, you're a funny man JV.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup...
> 
> Good questions, all. There are some great "how to solder" tutorials on Youtube. Point to point soldering for tube amps, generally requires more solder and hotter irons than miniature PC board soldering.
> 
> ...


 

 Yup by that time I'll be looking down at him and smiling and saying 'Poor guy still fiddling with tube amp while up here we've LIVE MUSIC'.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup...
> 
> Good questions, all. There are some great "how to solder" tutorials on Youtube. Point to point soldering for tube amps, generally requires more solder and hotter irons than miniature PC board soldering.
> 
> ...


 
 When I made that computer, the first thing we tried was making everything point to point. We soon realized that would take an enormous amount of effort, and sadly, it wasn't within the budget. Imagine a point to point wired computer. Now THAT would be a sight to behold. 

 I suddenly want to study physics now. Or electrical engineering. Hmm.


----------



## UntilThen

Well folks I'm listening to Wars of the World on a tube combo that is 9.99. That's how much one Philips Miniwatt FDD20 is ... 0.01 more than RVC FDD20.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Well folks I'm listening to Wars of the World on a tube combo that is 9.99. That's how much one Philips Miniwatt FDD20 is ... 0.01 more than RVC FDD20.


 
 What powers are you running them with UT?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> What powers are you running them with UT?


 

 I'm using the WE 421A twin.....aka Chatham 6520. That's what I like to believe they are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Man, H1 has to get up and listen to this combo... I'm telling Lukasz that he needs to supply FDD20 with Elise as standard tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Light came back again....please don't do this Mr. 0.01 %


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 Tapped the shelf with my knuckles - a lot of static. The same with tapping the amp chassis and the equipment rack. However, it could be my Tower of Pisa adapters that are a little rickety.
  
 In the past i noticed that microphonics is usually related to the tube I am using. As a rule I have very few problems with microphonics walking across the floor etc.
  
 The 6BL7 are sounding better and better - mixing a Tung Sol with a Westinghouse. The sound is beguiling....


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> Tapped the shelf with my knuckles - a lot of static. The same with tapping the amp chassis and the equipment rack. However, it could be my Tower of Pisa adapters that are a little rickety.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Mordy,
  
 Yes, microphonics seems to be very tube related. This has been my experience as well. Adapters also seem to make a difference. Is your shelf mounted on the wall or standing on the ground? I wonder how well those spike feet works, if at all. I'm excited to find out.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey Suuup, I just use my mobile phone next to Elise and surf the internet and there's no feedback.
  
 And Mr. 0.01% is behaving.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Hey Suuup, I just use my mobile phone next to Elise and surf the internet and there's no feedback.
> 
> And Mr. 0.01% is behaving.


 
 Try using it on all sides. I think it depends on where the cell tower is compared to your phone (this is just speculation). I just tried using it on all 4 sides, and there's only noise on 2 out of the 4 sides (right and front makes noise, left and back doesn't). Also, have your phone ~5 cm from the tubes, that's what I did.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Try using it on all sides. I think it depends on where the cell tower is compared to your phone (this is just speculation). I just tried using it on all 4 sides, and there's only noise on 2 out of the 4 sides (right and front makes noise, left and back doesn't). Also, have your phone ~5 cm from the tubes, that's what I did.


 

 Nope tried all sides nothing. Didn't try bottom. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Chatham sounding 10 again.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Nope tried all sides nothing. Didn't try bottom.


 
 Hold on, I'm getting a plane ticket to Australia...
  
 Have you remembered to turn on the Elise? I cannot fathom how there can be no RFI. UT, you have broken physics.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Hold on, I'm getting a plane ticket to Australia...
> 
> Have you remembered to turn on the Elise? I cannot fathom how there can be no RFI. UT, you have broken physics.


 

 I have a perfect Elise. It's this 0.01% that's troubling me but I think it's the contact...though how it become loose mid way through a song I don't know. I'll get to the bottom of this.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I have a perfect Elise. It's this 0.01% that's troubling me but I think it's the contact...though how it become loose mid way through a song I don't know. I'll get to the bottom of this.


 
 It still doesn't make sense, even with the Elise. The tubes themselves should be susceptible to RFI. From what I know any way.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> It still doesn't make sense, even with the Elise. The tubes themselves should be susceptible to RFI.


 

 Why don't you come to Sydney. My tubes are RFI free.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Why don't you come to Sydney. My tubes are RFI free.


 
 $700USD, leaves in 14 hours from Copenhagen. I'll bring my tubes and T1's.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> $700USD, leaves in 14 hours from Copenhagen. I'll bring my tubes and T1's.


 

 That's one Elise with $51 change.
  
 This sound is so good, I'm lost for words.... I'll have a bed for you and take you to Opera House, to the Blue Mountains and Hunter Valley where we can drink all the wine. To Bondi beach and see New Year's Eve fireworks. Sydney is a lovely city.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's one Elise with $51 change.
> 
> This sound is so good, I'm lost for words.... I'll have a bed for you and take you to Opera House, to the Blue Mountains and Hunter Valley where we can drink all the wine. To Bondi beach and see New Year's Eve fireworks. Sydney is a lovely city.


 
 Well that does sound amazing. Would love to go some time, and I probably will.


----------



## UntilThen

*Philips Miniwatt FDD20 with Chatham 6520*
  
 This is a 10 no doubt about it. I sat here listening for the whole afternoon and part morning. Despite the short hiccup of no sound on the left channel, it came back and now I'm getting perfect harmony. I believe it's the contact.
  
 My HE560 is sounding warm and lush and yet so clear and exciting. This is the sound I've been chasing and I've found it, despite not clocking 150 hours on the FDD20 and not using 5998. I think I prefer the 6520.
  
 The treble is astonishingly clear and without fatigue. Vocals are projected intimately close to you and sounded real. Bass extends well and with impact. I'm listening to music. The details make up the song. It's wholesome, entertaining and draws you in. Elise is mainly responsible for all this. Without her, the tubes cannot translate into the resolving power for my headphone to make the music sound so good.
  
 Cheers to us lucky ones indeed.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Very interesting tube indeed. And it's a pretty one! I'm not sure how to make an adapter for a directly heated triode, though I guess I can look it up. It also appears that there aren't a whole lot of VT-51's on Ebay, so it might be hard to get a hold of a pair of these beauties. I'll have to look around for a bit.


 
  
 Hey Suuup...*direct-heated* triode? - I'd do a _very_ in-depth investigation if I were you as to its feasibility in our amps, even with external PS...have a horrible feeling it could well be a no-no, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Nope didn't drop mine. Handle with extreme care. After more sanding still the same. Replace with one of my RVC and it light up nicely, so clearly it's not the connection. I'll be contacting Mr. Da Vinci and hope he has replacement for me.
> 
> If not then I've half a super tube combo hahahaha ....mix and match for the win !!!
> 
> Maybe one Philips Miniwatt and one RVC might be greater magic. Listening to that now.


 
  
 Hi UT...from what you say, this definitely looks like a loose heater wire connection inside the tube's base - and it ain't gonna get better! You will not be able to rely on it behaving itself, so you must let the vendor know for sure - if you haven't already!
  
 Re. 2x FDD20s, I did have another go, and although it seems strange, I personally still come back to the 2031 combo : it is that actual 'unconventional' sound that I am still in love with - _for me_, there is an added element to the soundstage which reminds me more of being in a concert hall, rather than a smaller venue....perhaps not quite so _precise_/_intimate_ in presentation, but as a consequence expanding the field of 3D sound somewhat more (some in tubeamp land might say a little less "in yer face", lol..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And I myself am happy to thus forego a little of that extra detail that is the price you have to pay, alas. At least this is partly compensated for by the tad extra bass extension that I still believe the ECC31 has over the FDD.
 The FDD20 is definitely a more forward-presenting tube, which is certainly very attractive in its own right however...and one day I might well find myself preferring this trait - but not just yet...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These are, of course, just my own impressions - and I may well be the only one to feel this way...but hey, "different strokes for different folks"...and long may that be the case, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Glad you too noticed a _slight_ difference between the two tubes...who'd have thought?...So now Lukasz is _definitely_ gonna have to try and find that stash of 'etched' Philips tubes, no?!! - let's all wish him the best of luck, LOL!!


----------



## UntilThen

Believe it or not, the tube has been behaving but like you say I have an uneasy feeling. I hate having to tiptoe around this beautiful looking and sounding tube. Anyway I wrote to Mr Da Vinci and his reply was prompt. He said no problem and that he will send a replacement for this tube that's causing tantrum. That's his words. 
  
 Mr Giannoni is indeed a gentleman and a responsible seller. He trusted me. Guess because I'm a regular customer. I got my Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G and Visseaux 6A6 from him. I also ask him for more info on FDD20 and he gave me this. http://frank.pocnet.net/vademecum2.html   FDD20 data is in it along with a lot others.
  
 I can recommend this Italian seller heartily. He looks after his customers. He has lots of nice tubes in his stores.


----------



## UntilThen

Primary difference between 2031 and 2 FDD20 is that the 2031 sounded more full in tone and a commanding bass. Soundstage too. This is not to say that 2 FDD20 is lacking in bass or lean sounding. Both sounded warm and lush and a very nice layering of sound. It's a degree of difference, subtle but certainly noticeable. There's reason to use both as you see fit.
  
 My taste has gradually changed. I'm more inclined towards a more energised tone, for want of a better word. This I find in the 2 FDD20. It's also why I like the Fivre 6N7G and 6A6 and Visseaux 6A6 and Mazda 6N7G. Then I would swap back to 2031 and like it too. So I have tubes combo that sounds similar but different. I know their sound signature well now. I can use any of the sets mentioned when I want their specific tone. I'm really fortunate to be able to do that. Plus there's also C3G and 5998 which is again a different sound presentation but nice as well. 7N7 as well as 6N7, 6N7GT, 6N23P, 6BQ7A, 6CG7, 6SN7WGT, mouse ears, etc. The choice is great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have not just a standard Elise. I have the tubes to dial in the tone that I so choose. Elise enables me to do that. A wonderful tube amp indeed. Very well design around the 6AS7 and 6SN7 plus their variants. You're buying a tube amp with great flexibility for tube rolling.
  
 P/S There's difference between the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and RVC FDD20 but the difference is not night and day. It's slight. I would have been perfectly happy with the RVC version. So if you don't have the Philips, don't loose sleep over it. You ain't missing much. The difference being that the Philips has more sparkle but only just.


----------



## Suuup

I want to make this thing work http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6ag9.html. It's a pentode AND a triode in one tube. And the tube itself is incredibly cheap! 3-4$. The triode section seems to have somewhat similar specs as the 6N7, which excites me even more. 
  
 I have a lot of reading to do. I'm not even sure it's possible to make it work, although I don't see why it wouldn't.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Believe it or not, the tube has been behaving but like you say I have an uneasy feeling. I hate having to tiptoe around this beautiful looking and sounding tube. Anyway I wrote to Mr Da Vinci and his reply was prompt. He said no problem and that he will send a replacement for this tube that's causing tantrum. That's his words.
> 
> Mr Giannoni is indeed a gentleman and a responsible seller. He trusted me. Guess because I'm a regular customer. I got my Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G and Visseaux 6A6 from him. I also ask him for more info on FDD20 and he gave me this. http://frank.pocnet.net/vademecum2.html   FDD20 data is in it along with a lot others.
> 
> I can recommend this Italian seller heartily. He looks after his customers. He has lots of nice tubes in his stores.




Most of the Data for the FDD20 on the page the Italian seller sent you is *not* filled in. 
We still *do not* have an official data sheet for the FDD20. 

This is the same guy that sold me the *Joybringers*.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Most of the Data for the FDD20 on the page the Italian seller sent you is *not* filled in.
> We still *do not* have an official data sheet for the FDD20.
> 
> This is the same guy that sold me the *Joybringers*.


 

 Yes we need to fill in the blanks. That's our job. If in doubt think of a number   Indeed Mr Giannoni brings joy to us. He sounded very nice to me and the only word of Italian I know is Grazie.
  
 Official data sheet for FDD20 was lost in WW2. Gone forever. Think of FDD20 as a close cousin of 6A6 and 6N7G.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes we need to fill in the blanks. That's our job. If in doubt think of a number   Indeed Mr Giannoni brings joy to us. He sounded very nice to me and the only word of Italian I know is Grazie.
> 
> Official data sheet for FDD20 was lost in WW2. Gone forever. Think of FDD20 as a close cousin of 6A6 and 6N7G.




The sheet he pointed you to appears to list it as a 6.3v tube!

My job sir, is only to enjoy *Mystery Tube'*s sonics


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The sheet he pointed you to appears to list it as a 6.3v tube!
> 
> My job sir, is only to enjoy *Mystery Tube'*s sonics


 

 Dang maybe there was a 6.3v version of FDD20  True why do we care about data. We want music !!!
  
 Do you know why the glass is blue?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Dang maybe there was a 6.3v version of FDD20  True why do we care about data. We want music !!!
> 
> Do you know why the glass is blue?




I don't know why the glass is blue. But - never saw another tube with blue hue glass....

Definitely special!



.


----------



## Suuup

If you want a good laugh, read this thread over at DIYAudio http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/234829-funniest-snake-oil-theories-3.html.
  
 Some of those posts are incredibly funny. Please remember, many of the posts are 100 % sarcastic.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Believe it or not, the tube has been behaving but like you say I have an uneasy feeling. I hate having to tiptoe around this beautiful looking and sounding tube. Anyway I wrote to Mr Da Vinci and his reply was prompt. He said no problem and that he will send a replacement for this tube that's causing tantrum. That's his words.
> 
> Mr Giannoni is indeed a gentleman and a responsible seller. He trusted me. Guess because I'm a regular customer. I got my Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G and Visseaux 6A6 from him. I also ask him for more info on FDD20 and he gave me this. http://frank.pocnet.net/vademecum2.html   FDD20 data is in it along with a lot others.
> 
> I can recommend this Italian seller heartily. He looks after his customers. He has lots of nice tubes in his stores.


 
  
 That's great news, UT...1st class service indeed - there _are_ good ebayers out there, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
 I do believe this was the source for my very first pair of used (but measuring close to NOS) GEC CV2523s...at a price that only broke _one_ of the banks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...that was a good while ago now, however....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


suuup said:


> I want to make this thing work http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6ag9.html. It's a pentode AND a triode in one tube. And the tube itself is incredibly cheap! 3-4$. The triode section seems to have somewhat similar specs as the 6N7, which excites me even more.
> 
> I have a lot of reading to do. I'm not even sure it's possible to make it work, although I don't see why it wouldn't.


 
  
 Hi S....given our drivers are wired in series, once again I think this is possibly a no-no...and wouldn't even really know where to start, myself lol! (Triode-strapping the pentode to supplement the triode doesn't sound feasible to me, so I shouldn't think it's even worth trying, mon ami!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I would imagine your search could be more fruitful within the realm of double-triodes....GOOD LUCK!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> That's great news, UT...1st class service indeed - there _are_ good ebayers out there, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you can make the C3G work, why wouldn't this work?


----------



## pctazhp

UT:  I just bought a pair of NOS Chatham/Tungsol 6520s from a guy in California. I hope they are the 6520s that are part of your 10 rating. Now I just have to win a pair of the Philips Miniwatt FDD20s. You're my hero - albeit a very expensive one!!!


----------



## hypnos1

> Originally Posted by *Suuup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> If you can make the C3G work, why wouldn't this work?


 
 Hi S...the pentode section on its own would be no problem, but suspect the gain wouldn't be anywhere near enough to be useful - the C3g's is *40*, but then halves to 20, triode-strapped....(digging out the C3g layout for you btw...). Plus, I would suspect its pentode is actually no match for the C3g anyway- but could be wrong, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for trying to combine the pentode _and_ triode function at present is out of my comfort zone...would need to do further investigation,lol...


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> I'm absolutely sure it's from shock / vibration. I learned pretty quickly that one shouldn't keep his phone near the Elise, as it induces a lot of noise. This is what those cone feet are for? I was wondering why people installed spikes beneath their amps. Makes more sense now. I have to get myself an anti vibration mat, but the only ones I can find are for washing machines, and they're quite ugly all of them. Do you have any recommendations? Can we actually use those cone / spike feet for the Elise?
> 
> Edit: Would these work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-set-D39mm-Sound-Isolation-Feet-Speaker-Spikes-Audio-Cones-HiFi-Mounts-/252071195339. How do you mount those?


 

 I can admit that the rubber carpet for washing machines is ugly but for me it is quite efficient for a very low price and i do not care too much of the design for my personal stuff (The Elise is now on my private office). If you have to glue those spike, you can get a wood/marble/glass/PVC plate on which you can install them ant then put Elise on top... I never changed the feet of any of my amp i always use intermediate layer...
 I got the rubber carpet i use for free and it was used to install measuring equipment in a lab it is as ugly as the one of washing machine and i had to cut it myself....


----------



## nephilim

I received something from China, but have to pick it up from customs office and the seller was too lazy to leave any description, value, etc. So I have no idea, which paypal receipt to print. The only info I have is the seller's name: asendia. Could this be xulingmrs? Does anybody of you have one of her parcels/envelopes lying around?
  
 Edit: Forget it... asendia is apparently some parcel service I've never heard of.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Would you trust this tube?
  




  
 Have you heard of the MICRO Electron Tube brand?  Neither did I...
  
 Why is it suspicious?
  




  
 Used or factory seconds??? Garanteed (sic) - misspelled..
  
  
 And here I thought that all tubes had to be in good working condition when they left the factory - no seconds sir. Every movie about tube manufacturing shows these crushers for defective tubes:
  




  




  
  
 "Huge tube crushers are stoked with reject tubes at the General Electric Tube Department. (upper) and at Sylvania's tube plant at Emporium, Pennsylvania (lower). Such a procedure keeps substandard tubes off the market. These companies feel that all burned-out or defective tubes should be smashed to keep them out of the reach of criminal rebranders. After crushing, a flotation process separates glass splinters from the heavier metals, which are then recovered.
 REAL TUBE BARGAINS
 Rebranded tubes should not be confused with legitimate "surplus tubes." Surplus tubes are available at low prices from honest discount dealers. As a rule, they are new tubes obtained from equipment manufacturers who may have gone bankrupt or out of business, or may have changed the design of their products so that they no longer need their tube stock. Since such manufacturers usually buy tubes at wholesale prices, their remaining stock may be legitimately sold to surplus dealers at low rates. These legitimate discount tube distributors offer the radio experimenter good values at low prices."
  
 So what IS this tube? A Russki garanteed fake? Nyet - no saucer getter. A quick call to Sherlock Holmes Inc resulted in the advice to carefully examine the tube for other marks or identifying information. A high powered camera lens revealed the following barely discernible image:
  




  
 Hard to read, but it says 6BL7GT  LOE. Sherlock: Elementary, my dear Watson. It is a Sylvania rebranded tube from December 1960 manufactured in the Emporium plant in Pennsylvania. (For you Syl aficionados, the first letter is the month [A=Jan, B=Feb etc], the second number is the year [give or take a decade], and the third letter is the factory code.)
  
 And since the yellowed ad above states that they will not sell a tube that is not 100%, you should be able to trust this tube.
  
 But why does it say used tube or factory seconds? There was a counterfeit business where people would take returned defective used tubes and resell as new, but that would only apply to brand names.
  
 My guess is that it was sold at off price and stamped like this so as not to compete with the regularly priced merchandise. Sometimes in today's times you can buy electronic merchandise that says Refurbished but in reality is new from over production; usually the item will be packed in a plain box. Does anybody want to weigh in?
  
 And yes, it lights up and plays just fine.
  
 And so ends an afternoon in a tube roller's life......


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  I just bought a pair of NOS Chatham/Tungsol 6520s from a guy in California. I hope they are the 6520s that are part of your 10 rating. Now I just have to win a pair of the Philips Miniwatt FDD20s. You're my hero - albeit a very expensive one!!!


 

 You are off to a flying start pctazhp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have not heard anyone say that their version of 6520 is no good. At worst it's a Chatham 6AS7G, which is a glorious sounding tube. At best it's better sounding than the Chatham 6AS7G....no saying it's WE 421A equivalent because I've not heard one. Did yours have the domino (dimpled) plates? If so they are Tung Sol 5998 equivalent.
  
 Philips Miniwatt FDD20..you're in for a ride...that is if you don't mind wearing 2 eye patches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually find the twin white adapters pleasing looking now and those wires don't bother me anymore. Remember if you can't get the Philps, the RVC are nearly as good. It's just a fraction behind. You're not even going to notice if you don't compare.
  
*2031*
 On another note, I got up this morning and put on 2031 again just to see how it compares to 2 FDD20. Using the same 6520 power tubes, the 2031 display multi dimensional layers. A note has now blossomed into a muscular note. Audiophiles call these airs between strings. It's lovely. Mid range is definitely 'less in your face' but presents a very appealing sound, be that vocals or instruments taking centre stage. Bass is the stand out here. This is ECC31 trademark lovely low end. From mid bass to low bass, you're getting quality bass serve on a platter. It extends into the nether regions. Soundstage also seem slightly expanded compared to 2 FDD20. What is remarkable is the seamless, linear presentation of the frequency range. Oh I forgot, the treble is deliciously clear and detailed, yet not fatiguing.
  
 I never fail to be impressed by the 2031 each time I visit it. I'm alleviating it to 10 alongside it's sibling, the twin Philips Miniwatt FDD20.
  
 Here you can see it's easy to switch to 2031 even if you've hooked the wires up for 2 FDD20. Just remove one FDD20 adapter and put in your ECC31. No need to reconfigure any wiring.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I received something from China, but have to pick it up from customs office and the seller was too lazy to leave any description, value, etc. So I have no idea, which paypal receipt to print. The only info I have is the seller's name: asendia. Could this be xulingmrs? Does anybody of you have one of her parcels/envelopes lying around?
> 
> Edit: Forget it... asendia is apparently some parcel service I've never heard of.


 

 What magic tubes did you receive Nep? ECC32?


----------



## nephilim

Noo, just adapters. But something has arrived from the US, too


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Noo, just adapters. But something has arrived from the US, too


 

 What? President Obama? Maybe Taylor Swift hahahaha.


----------



## nephilim

I will post pics tomorrow. It's nothing new in this group... Hopefully with enough juice for 300 Ohm cans.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I found this page that suggests there are 2 different base configurations for the fdd20....

http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Trioden/FDD20.htm

Both say 12.6-13V though.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> I found this page that suggests there are 2 different base configurations for the fdd20....
> 
> http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Trioden/FDD20.htm
> 
> Both say 12.6-13V though.


 

 Yes that was the site I read too. Had to use Google translate to find out what he's saying though. This is where I got the gain of 33 from.
  
 Regardless the FDD20 sounds really marvellous as I strap on 2 Miniwatt again. Despite the tube lovely outward appearance, there's hardly any glow when lit. It remains a cool blue.
  
 If FDD20 is a close cousin of the 6A6 and 6N7G, then it is the king of this family. I have not heard anything so crystal clear and yet musical.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup how about finding out if these beauties will work in Elise?
  
 Radio museum says.. in the USA it was the worlds first and most famous beam-power-tetrode, the 6L6...whatever tetrode is. ..ah found it....     'a thermionic valve having four electrodes.' 
  
also from wiki... the beam tetrode which appeared later, and was used for audio or radio-frequency power amplification.


----------



## UntilThen

This is a pdf data that Giannoni has on his website for FDD20.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nah...
It's a 6N7G / 6N7GT data sheet upon which someone hand wrote 'FDD20'....I can't enlarge and see, because it's not clear enough, but was trying to see if 6.3v was specified for heater..."6N7G style"...


----------



## UntilThen

Yup he must have got it wrong then. That data was posted together with the pictures of the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 for sale on eBay. Also that's a Fivre logo on the data sheet.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yup he must have got it wrong then. That data was posted together with the pictures of the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 for sale on eBay.




Yep I saw it on the ad for the tubes. And saw there, that it clearly said 6N7G/6N7GT

Under the diagram of the "paddle layout" on one side, it sure looks like I see "6.3".

There must have been a "Europe side socket" version of 6N7G at some point...



.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yep I saw it on the ad for the tubes. And saw there it clearly says 6N7G/6N7GT
> 
> Under the diagram of the "paddle layout" on one side, it sure looks like I see "6.3".
> 
> *There must have been a "Europe side socket" version of 6N7G at some point...*


 
 Oh yes it says 6.3 .. the hunt is on for FDD20 with 6.3v and 6N7G socket .. saddle your horses ready folks...we've a long ride ahead of us
  
 I wrote to Giannoni and ask if he has FDD20 with 6.3V and 6N7G type socket.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Oh yes it says 6.3 .. the hunt is on for FDD20 with 6.3v and 6N7G socket .. saddle your horses ready folks...we've a long ride ahead of us




LOL...you mean a 6N7G in "Europe Side Socket"

Looking again it says 6.3 / 0.3 meaning 6.3v and 0.3 amp current draw...which is less than an Octal Socket base 6N7G current draw...

Which is listed at 0.8 amps:

http://www.tubezone.net/pdf/6n7.pdf

So, definitely an odd horse is out there, somewhere!



.


----------



## UntilThen

6N7G has a gain of 35. ...more than the FDD20 gain of 33.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 6N7G has a gain of 35. ...more than the FDD20 gain of 33.  :blink:




And that matches what I hear...volume dial down a bit further when 6N7G is in. Can't see the u factor on the "FDD20" spec sheet...

And the gain factor for ECC31 is 32...!! Very close to FDD20...


.


----------



## UntilThen

So we have some figures on gain:-
  
 6A6 - 35
 6N7G - 35
 FDD20 - 33
 ECC31 - 32


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You are off to a flying start pctazhp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't figure out how to post a picture of it, but it looks the same as your 6520. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!!
  
 I was an audiophile for over 30 years starting in the early 70s with an original pair of the Bose 901s and a 40 watt per channel Marantz receiver. I remember reading a brief blurb in Stereo Review about a new company called Audio Research that was crazy enough to be designing and selling tube electronics. The head technical guy at Stereo Review, Julian Hirsch, staunchly believed that all amps sound the same, so AR was barely mentioned in Stereo Review after that.
  
 My first introduction to tubes was an Audio Research SP-11 preamp and a the monster D-250 MKII stereo tube amp.The D-250 was later replaced with Atma-Sphere's first OTL mono blocks. 
  
 I tried a number of speakers before settling on a pair of Vandersteen 5s. I was totally into high end audio. I attended CES every year and personally knew a lot of the high end superstars of the day, including John Curl, Richard Vandersteen and Jeff Rowland - names that may mean something to other old codgers like me!!!
  
 I had a dedicated sound room that my then-wife referred to as the man-cave untouched by human hands))
  
 A divorce and other life changes brought an end to my audiophile days. I only discovered today's modern hi-end headphones a few months ago. I started with the Aune T1, then got a little Bravo amp and quickly moved on to my current LD MK IV SE. That was my gateway drug. Things were pretty dead at the LD threads and though H1 I learned of you guys. I guess the rest is history. Very glad I found you ))


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> I can't figure out how to post a picture of it, but it looks the same as your 6520. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!!
> 
> I was an audiophile for over 30 years starting in the early 70s with an original pair of the Bose 901s and a 40 watt per channel Marantz receiver. I remember reading a brief blurb in Stereo Review about a new company called Audio Research that was crazy enough to be designing and selling tube electronics. The head technical guy at Stereo Review, Julian Hirsch, staunchly believed that all amps sound the same, so AR was barely mentioned in Stereo Review after that.
> 
> ...
 
 Welcome to our small (but active) community! Glad to have you here.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I can't figure out how to post a picture of it, but it looks the same as your 6520. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!!
> 
> I was an audiophile for over 30 years starting in the early 70s with an original pair of the Bose 901s and a 40 watt per channel Marantz receiver. I remember reading a brief blurb in Stereo Review about a new company called Audio Research that was crazy enough to be designing and selling tube electronics. The head technical guy at Stereo Review, Julian Hirsch, staunchly believed that all amps sound the same, so AR was barely mentioned in Stereo Review after that.
> 
> ...
 

 Omg you have the Bose 901. That's a classic. Those AR SP-11 and D--250 MKII...you're an old timer alright. Just look at this D-250 monster...32 tubes !!!
  

  
  
 I have the Aune T1 too. I gave it to Finn my cavoodle. He's enjoying head-fi now.
  
 And you have these Vandersteens 5s
  

  
 This is the legendary Bose 901

  

 Fear not...you've come into the right territory. We're tube amp lovers. Elise to be precise. What you're going to hear with Elise, those tubes and your HD700 will blow your mind. 
  
 And we're glad you've come into our midst.


----------



## UntilThen

Spinning modern day electronic music with vintage gear. So exciting sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## UntilThen




----------



## UntilThen

3rd day with FDD20 but this time for an extended listen with Tung Sol 5998. This sound is unbelievable. I cannot believe the HE560 sound so good. Before Elise came I didn't even want to use it. I was using my HD650 all the time. Now I'm grabbing the HE560 all the time. This tubes combo is electrifying. Enjoy the glow because they are glowing and oozing with syrupy sweetness.


----------



## UntilThen

If you hadn't noticed, the above 2 pictures were taken with RVC FDD20. The grey paint were removed. They sounded and look marvellous too. I put them on today for a listen.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang I have to eat my hat. Put on the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and immediately noticed the difference. There's definitely more sparkle. It's juiced up.


----------



## Suuup

Had to send the Aune S16 to the next tour participant. Sound is no longer 10/10. I need to get myself one of these.


----------



## UntilThen

Giannoni tells me that he only has the 13V FDD20 and that he doesn't have 6.3V FDD20. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However he found me a used pair of Visseaux 6N7G. The only missing tube of the French and Italian tubes in my collection...aka the Joybringer. So I'll get it and find out once and for all whether the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G are the same tube.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Had to send the Aune S16 to the next tour participant. Sound is no longer 10/10. I need to get myself one of these.


 

 Well Suuup, now you're not limited to just the Aune S16. The floodgates are now open at the $700 price range. You have Audio Gd, Geek and Gustard X12 all competing for your dollar. Matrix Audio Mini-Pro, Schitt Bifrost Uber, NAD M51, etc.
  
 Exciting times for you.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 3rd day with FDD20 but this time for an extended listen with Tung Sol 5998. This sound is unbelievable. I cannot believe the HE560 sound so good. Before Elise came I didn't even want to use it. I was using my HD650 all the time. Now I'm grabbing the HE560 all the time. This tubes combo is electrifying. Enjoy the glow because they are glowing and oozing with syrupy sweetness.




I would love to hear the HE-560's with this tube combination with Elise!

For sure, I prefer my Beyers to my Sennheisers, but would love to experience the HE-560's. 

Bet it would be great. And wonder if the planar drivers would produce enough bass for me.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> So we have some figures on gain:-
> 
> 6A6 - 35
> 6N7G - 35
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...add : 6SN7 - *20* (further below...).
  


untilthen said:


> Dang I have to eat my hat. Put on the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and immediately noticed the difference. There's definitely more sparkle. It's juiced up.


 
 Now this has got me thinking outside the box a bit...
  
 The proposition that this is most likely down to slightly higher gm (transconductance) readings in the etched, 'Philips-labelled' tubes - (or was there in fact _another_ factory making these, lol?!!) - could well (possibly!) help explain why the 6N7G family (including the FDD20) is sounding so good in the Elise : ie. considering the 6*S*N7's gm is a good bit lower, and the amp has been configured for this parameter, the 6N7G is probably going to be doing a lot more than the difference between a C3g and its 'S' version, for example.
  
 And added to this, apparently (according to aficianados in DIY amp land) the 6SN7's frequency response is not particularly great, and thus has to be 'coaxed' into better performance with some clever amp topology...which consequently can actually degrade quite badly the performance of something like an otherwise excellent tube, such as the mighty 6992 when used in such a circuit. And so - _perhaps_ -  in the case of the 6N7G-type, the opposite is in fact happening, and the Feliks guys' configuration has indeed inadvertently got these tubes performing even _better_ than if they had been _strictly correctly_ designed for?...This could possibly explain why this family hasn't really been enjoying the kind of adulation/fame it deserves?...until now, that is!!..(And yet, the later ECC32/CV181 *is *revered lol!...a conundrum indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Whatever, these tubes - *especially* the FDD20 (which perhaps has some other reason in addition, lol?!) - are delivering results that are totally unexpected and defy logic...(unless my own proposition has an element of truth in it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...other theories warmly welcome!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## aqsw

#28 was delivered this morning. Hooked her up. Put in two 5998s and two mazdas. The mazdas wouldn't lite up. Put in my other two mazdas and same. Do mazdas require something else? I put in the stock tungsols and everything is fine.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I would love to hear the HE-560's with this tube combination with Elise!
> 
> For sure, I prefer my Beyers to my Sennheisers, but would love to experience the HE-560's.
> 
> Bet it would be great. And wonder if the planar drivers would produce enough bass for me.


 
 JV, when the HE560 was in concept stage, it was the most eagerly anticipated headphone on the planet. There's a reason for it. It's predecessor, the HE500, has the most glorious bass and mid. Everyone loves it and they still do to this day. However HE500 is big and chunky. Likewise LCD2.2 is fame for it's bass. Planars are never lacking in bass, it's how it's tuned. It's one of the reasons people choose the LCD 2.2 or HE500. The HE560 was the first planar magnetic that is build much smaller and to this day the look is still classy. It is tune for a more revealing sound. It's not the same bass as you would hear on the HE500. If you search, you'll find people equate it to the HD800. I like bass. I had the Audio Technica ath m50x which has the most pronounced bass that is just acceptable of a hifi sound. Anymore and it would have been a boom box. However I find the HE560 with Elise and these tubes combo (plus my favourites) warm, lush, fast, dynamic and precise, with bass to satisfy my love for bass. That's how much bass it produce with this setup. The bass quality is more refined, controlled and impactful than the HD650.
  
I still dream of the HD800 or T1 but I often wonder, will they give as much enjoyment as the HE560 to me. At the price it is selling in Amazon it is a steal. This is affordable high end headphone. Here in Australia it is just $150 less than the HD800. This unit is from Japan, at a time when the Australian dollar is high and currency exchange makes it cheaper to buy overseas. My son bought  it there whilst on holiday.


----------



## hpamdr

2aqsw 6N7G need the same adapter as the ecc31...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> #28 was delivered this morning. Hooked her up. Put in two 5998s and two mazdas. The mazdas wouldn't lite up. Put in my other two mazdas and same. Do mazdas require something else? I put in the stock tungsols and everything is fine.


 

 It needs the ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters.....  please tell me that's what you didn't do. And I'm waiting for the scream....
  
 The Mazda 6N7G will light up the night sky plus put an orchestra inside your head.
  
 #28  !!!!   that's the number I want...it means something to me.


----------



## aqsw

They arelighting up now!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...add : 6SN7 - *20* (further below...).
> 
> Now this has got me thinking outside the box a bit...
> 
> ...


 

 I believe your theory above H1. Others might find it preposterous but as one having heard the majority of the 6N7G, ECC31, 6A6 and FDD20, I must say I believe Henryk have a love for these tubes. There are PERFECT in Elise. Who would have thought. I have tried all my 6SN7 and other small tubes but they don't give me the same pleasure as the 6N7G tribe. Granted I don't have the best 6SN7 but I doubt even the Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate will dislodge my rankings for these tubes. That's my opinion but I'm glad it's shared by you and JV and many others like Suuup, Nep, etc. Sorry if I miss any names. Just got up from bed.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> They arelighting up now!


 

 Do wear sunglasses...they will be very bright. So did you plug the Mazda in without the adapters??? I didn't know they can be plugged in without adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

Where's the scream Aqsw? Have you fainted?
  
 In another news, Giannoni tells me now that he can get me a pair of NOS Joybringer made for the military. What a champ. A pair of Visseaux 6N7G is coming my way, plus the replacement Philips FDD20. I really need to know if it is indeed the same as the Mazda 6N7G.


----------



## nephilim

These came today

  
 Still no Elise... and no adapters to run those tubes 
  
 The other delivery were the ceramic sockets which I hoped would be large enough to accomodate the FDD20 sockets to make my own adapter. Well, they are not.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> They arelighting up now!


 
 AT LAST aqsw!...now the joy begins ('fun' you've already encountered, it would appear lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










).
  
 We're all waiting with bated breath for your (extensive!) findings...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> I believe your theory above H1. Others might find it preposterous but as one having heard the majority of the 6N7G, ECC31, 6A6 and FDD20, I must say I believe Henryk have a love for these tubes. There are PERFECT in Elise. Who would have thought. I have tried all my 6SN7 and other small tubes but they don't give me the same pleasure as the 6N7G tribe. Granted I don't have the best 6SN7 but I doubt even the Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate will dislodge my rankings for these tubes. That's my opinion but I'm glad it's shared by you and JV and many others like Suuup, Nep, etc. Sorry if I miss any names. Just got up from bed.


 
 Thanks for your faith, UT...and 'preposterous' I _love_, (whether I'm right or not!)...'cos I always enjoy seeing... a. The reasoning behind such accusation and b. A better explanation provided....So let the debate begin, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

Ouy Aqsw, I'm waiting not wanting to leave my chair to go to the toilet. Don't keep me waiting any longer.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> These came today
> 
> Still no Elise... and no adapters to run those tubes
> 
> The other delivery were the ceramic sockets which I hoped would be large enough to accomodate the FDD20 sockets to make my own adapter. Well, they are not.


 
 Nep those 6BL7 reminds me of the GE 6AS7GA looks. They are used as power tubes in the Glenn behemoth amp. 6 of them. I always believe driver's job is to pre amplify the signal for the power tubes. Hence it needs suitable gain for the task. Just my 2 cents.
  
 Again nothing surprise me anymore in Elise. Tubes that are not supposed to work are indeed working with Elise. Love to hear your opinion on the 6BL7 on your HD800.
  
 That's interesting you're making your own adapters for the FDD20. Waiting to see them.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> * Granted I don't have the best 6SN7 but I doubt even the Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate will dislodge my rankings for these tubes*.* That's my opinion* but I'm glad it's shared by you and JV and many others like Suuup, Nep, etc. Sorry if I miss any names. Just got up from bed.


 
  
 As an addendum, UT, I believe your opinion is pretty safe, given also many other non-Elise owners' similar findings with regard to TS BGRP vs ECC31/32/CV181...and given we are finding our own particular results to match and even surpass said ECC31, I doubt the logic can be (genuinely) challenged lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....you can go to the loo now, mon ami!..


----------



## aqsw

Im getting a lot of distortion when I turn it above half.


----------



## UntilThen

With Ether? Try with the stock tubes first. Omg I've never gone past half except with the 1635 where I went 3/4 and then it only distorts at 5pm and at 6pm max it distorts badly.
  
 It should not distort past 12 unless with the Ether you're getting mismatch as the Ether are 14ohm?. Try the LCD 2.2
  
 With the HE560 if I go past 12, my eardrums will be shattered.
  
 Just checked, Ether is 23ohm and 96db.


----------



## aqsw

With my audezes and oppos. Ether is still on order.


----------



## aqsw

I have the stock drivers in now. The Mazdas seemed very muddy. Will have to burn them in probably.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yes those 6N7G when new will sound flabby but after 20 mins they should open up. You sure you have the correct Mazda 6N7G? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Use the TS 6SN7GTB with your Mullard 6080 if you have them otherwise your Thompson 6080. Then tell me what you think. I think to be fair I'm pushing you for an immediate impression. Best to let it warm up a while those tubes and Elise.


----------



## aqsw

They are the right ones. I only gave them a minute and took them out right away. . Will let them play overnight and then try in the morning. Listening to stock drivers with 5998s. Sounds pretty good. Carbon sounds better though with balanced connection. Hoping that will change.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> They are the right ones. I only gave them a minute and took them out right away. . Will let them play overnight and then try in the morning. Listening to stock drivers with 5998s. *Sounds pretty good*. Carbon sounds better though with balanced connection. Hoping that will change.


 

 I guess 'better' in what sense needs to be qualified. Yes tubes need to be burn in but it should sound good even after an hour, then gradually it gets better and better. I didn't know you have 5998. If they are new those definitely will open up after burn in. Also your Mazda will sound way better than the TS. Way way better.
  
 It all depends on what you're looking for in sound. SS amp are famous for their fast transient response. I find Elise no slouch in that department for a tube amp. Above all I much much prefer tube amp sound. I call it the perfect musical distortions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 If 'sounds pretty good' is your 1st impression, then you're on the right track. Wait till you get more time with the tubes and Elise. Debate of ss vs tube amps have been raging since the dawn of time. You've fans on both sides. You're lucky to be able to do this comparison and determine for yourself which you prefer. Again it's different for everyone. It's also probable that the LCD2.2 will sound better with a good ss amp. I know a lot love it with the Violectric V200.


----------



## UntilThen

Right now with the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998 with HE560, this sound is to die for. It's heavenly music.


----------



## hpamdr

I got some tubes lots for decent price 1 to 50€ by tube and inside i have some single that are waiting a mate for pairing in the Elise :
 Drivers :
 6SN7T visseau
  
 Power
 Mullard CV2984
 GEC 6AS7G
 TungSol 6080WA
 CIFTE 6080WA
 RCA 6AS7G
  
 I'm pretty sure to get easilly US friends but for British and French it will be more diicult (for decent price)... I did try hasardous mix but it seem that each beast have it's own personality... I did paired anyway RCA 6AS7G with RCA 6080 and CIFTE 6080WA with CSF 6080WA.                                
  
 So I will be patient...  and wait ....
  
 For now, ECC31 with 5998 through T1 listening Peter, Paul and Mary....   Simply enjoying Elise but with tubes it is not anymore a 500$ toy .


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice hpamdr. Envy your GEC 6AS7G. I agree ECC31 with 5998 on a HP such as T1 will sound good.
  
 You're right. Elise is not a $500 toy...it's a > $1500 high end tube amp with tubes such as those.
  
 I find even with a pair of RCA 6AS7G, it will sound fabulous with FDD20 or 6N7G. I think those Visseaux 6SN7GT which you have, should sound nice too. Didn't you have the 6N7GT instead of 6SN7T?


----------



## aqsw

First pic.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> First pic.


 
 Doesn't Elise look classy compared to the LC? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Nice pic and nice gear.


----------



## aqsw

I just won three 6080 chatham metal bases $10.00 cdn probably never use them but?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I just won three 6080 chatham metal bases $10.00 cdn probably never use them but?


 
 Post pictures of the Chatham 6080. If they are those with carbon plates then you're a lucky beast.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Very nice hpamdr. Envy your GEC 6AS7G. I agree ECC31 with 5998 on a HP such as T1 will sound good.
> 
> You're right. Elise is not a $500 toy...it's a > $1500 high end tube amp with tubes such as those.
> 
> I find even with a pair of RCA 6AS7G, it will sound fabulous with FDD20 or 6N7G. I think those Visseaux 6SN7GT which you have, should sound nice too. Didn't you have the 6N7GT instead of 6SN7T?


 

 In fact the GEC tube was hidden in a big lot (14 tubes for 150€ delivered) where I've seen a pair but the second one have the glass craked near the base


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> In fact the GEC tube was hiden in a big lot (14 tubes for 150€ delivered) where I've seen a pair but the second one have the glass craked near the base


 

 Omg how lucky and unlucky you are. You have a pair of GEC 6AS7G hidden in the pile of 14 tubes? !!!  What a surprise then. But 150 euro is quite a lot of nuggets, surely you must know there's something good in it to pay that amount. What are the other tubes?


----------



## hpamdr

aqsw said:


> First pic.


 
 What a nice install ! Are you listening with the Audeze ?


----------



## aqsw

These ones


----------



## aqsw

hpamdr said:


> What a nice install ! Are you listening with the Audeze ?




Thanks, Right now Im listening to the Elise wittenh the Audezes and the Carbon with the Oppos. I was going to use the elise as a pre into the carbon but after first listen
I changed my mind. It will be either tube or ss, not a mixture of both.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Omg how lucky and unlucky you are. You have a pair of GEC 6AS7G hidden in the pile of 14 tubes? !!!  What a surprise then. But 150 euro is quite a lot of nuggets, surely you must know there's something good in it to pay that amount. What are the other tubes?


 
 I paid this price because I've seen the 2 GEC in the box  just listed as regular 6AS7G with one RCA and two russian 6H5C,  4 6080WA CSF, 2 RCA 6080, 3 RCA 6080WA.


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> I paid this price because I've seen the 2 GEC in the box  just listed as regular 6AS7G with one RCA and two russian 6H5C,  4 6080WA CSF, 2 RCA 6080, 3 RCA 6080WA.


 

 Wow the seller obviously didn't know the value of the GEC. That's a real bargain you have there with all the other nice power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Thanks, Right now Im listening to the Elise wittenh the Audezes and the Carbon with the Oppos. I was going to use the elise as a pre into the carbon but after first listen
> I changed my mind. It will be either tube or ss, not a mixture of both.


 

 Haha it's either or. I find Elise good both as standalone or use as preamp. I did find that as a preamp into another tube amp, they behave strangely in that I need to adjust both volume. However as preamp in my receiver with a dedicated preamp in, it works perfect.
  
 That said I prefer Elise strictly on her own as a headphone amp.


----------



## hpamdr

aqsw said:


> Thanks, Right now Im listening to the Elise wittenh the Audezes and the Carbon with the Oppos. I was going to use the elise as a pre into the carbon but after first listen
> I changed my mind. It will be either tube or ss, not a mixture of both.


 
 The Elise is not the most juicy amp but if you apppreciate it direclty ne need to go with SS. In you case a version with 2/4 power tubes or 4 6AS7G  or 2 6336A could probaly be a beter fit.
 Do you use 5998 good power but add emphasis on lower spectrum, did you find some Chatham 6520 anyway try the 6080 WA you just won?


----------



## aqsw

Oh Yea, 

Van Morrison is sounding very good. Hearing things Ive never heard before on "into the mystic". I'm getting impressed.

I have a feeling the Carbon is not going to be turned on too often.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Wow the seller obviously didn't know the value of the GEC. That's a real bargain you have there with all the other nice power tubes.


 
 Yep... but this is not on eBay. I did find it on a regular old/used stuff trade website. It coulb be risky as generally partial return is not acceped.


----------



## hpamdr

aqsw said:


> Oh Yea,
> 
> Van Morrison is sounding very good. Hearing things Ive never heard before on "into the mystic". I'm getting impressed.
> 
> ...


 

 WELCOME TO ELISE Listening ! Keep in mind that Elise need 100h at least to be burned and some tube around 200h to give their best !
 Prepare yourself to be astonished.... Even Chaos in AD from Sepultura will enjoy you


----------



## nephilim

Ohhh, I want to listen to Sepultura NOW! Haven't listened to them for almost 20 years but I'm sure I will still enjoy them.


----------



## aqsw

hpamdr said:


> WELCOME TO ELISE Listening ! Keep in mind that Elise need 100h at least to be burned and some tube around 200h to give their best !
> Prepare yourself to be astonished.... Even Chaos in AD from Sepultura will enjoy you :evil:




I agree with the be astonished part. Ill pass on the Sepultura though


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> #28 was delivered this morning. Hooked her up. Put in two 5998s and two mazdas. The mazdas wouldn't lite up. Put in my other two mazdas and same. Do mazdas require something else? I put in the stock tungsols and everything is fine.




Congrats on receiving #28, aqsw!!

In a hundred or so hours....after some burn in....you'll be in 7th heaven!

Very very nice!!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Oh Yea,
> 
> Van Morrison is sounding very good. Hearing things Ive never heard before on "into the mystic". *I'm getting impressed.*
> 
> ...


 

 LOL HAHAHA.... Ok Aqsw..I'm going to hand over the Sales Rep job to you now because you've just helped to sell a bucket load of Elise with that statement.


----------



## UntilThen

With your LCD2.2, since it's already warm and lush, I think the Mazda 6N7G or 2 FDD20 with either 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G will do you nicely. It will bring the sparkle and not add too much warm. It's the reason people prefer an ss amp with the LCD2.2 but there are tubes to balance it plus give you the tube amp sound which I know you will love. It's the reason you go all out for planar magnetics.
  
 If I were you though I would trade one of those planar for a HD800 or T1. Then you get to sample the best of both worlds.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I received the 5A voltage regulator (with the nice LED readout) and worked it into a grounded
19.4 volt / 4.7 Amp computer power supply.

I like it!! 

Reads out my 12.6 volts for FDD20 use. It's fully adjustable, and tells you what voltage output
you have set.

I have had to for 3 days...it's been running the whole three days, wanted to see the unit gets warm...it does not. 
Cool as a cucumber, after three days of continuous duty:







Makes for a nice, compact unit....good stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> These ones


 
 Too small for me to see but they seem like the good ones. You're so lucky to be getting $10 each for a Chatham 6080. I'll be waiting to hear your impression of them. If you want some brightness and freshness, try this. The Mullard 6080 will produce similar effect.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Too small for me to see but they seem like the good ones. You're so lucky to be getting $10 each for a Chatham 6080. I'll be waiting to hear your impression of them. If you want some brightness and freshness, try this. The Mullard 6080 will produce similar effect.




Indeed! He got a great deal...!!

,


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Too small for me to see but they seem like the good ones. You're so lucky to be getting $10 each for a Chatham 6080. I'll be waiting to hear your impression of them. If you want some brightness and freshness, try this. The Mullard 6080 will produce similar effect.




That was $10.00 for all three of them, plus 13.00 for shipping. Canaduan dollars.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I received the 5A voltage regulator (with the nice LED readout) and worked it into a grounded
> 19.4 volt / 4.7 Amp computer power supply.
> 
> I like it!!
> ...


 
 Hmmmm... you da man JV. I have one of those LED display voltage regulator coming plus I have an old but still newish looking, grounded IBM laptop power supply of 16V 3.36A.
  
 I'll do what you did and make myself a walkie talkie.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> That was $10.00 for all three of them, plus 13.00 for shipping. Canaduan dollars.


 
 WHAT????  Aqsw...send them here RIGHT NOW. Does the seller have more?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Hmmmm... you da man JV. I have one of those LED display voltage regulator coming plus I have an old but still newish looking, grounded IBM laptop power supply of 16V 3.36A.
> 
> I'll do what you did and make myself a walkie talkie.




Hehe!! Walkie-Talkie Power Supply!!

I like it!!

...
Dano...dial in 12.6 Volts, were goin' FDD...yep...FDD20....

Over...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Dano...dial in 12.6 Volts, were goin' FDD...yep...FDD20....
> 
> Over...


 
 IBM to Dano ..dial in to 6.3V over. I've got IBM sponsorship now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> IBM to Dano ..dial in to 6.3V over. I've got IBM sponsorship now.




That will work perfectly! You just need the 120v ungrounded 2 blade male / female...for that final connection.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> That will work perfectly! You just need the 120v ungrounded 2 blade male / female...for that final connection.


 

 Do you mean 240v ? Do you want to send electric shocks to me?


----------



## UntilThen

Aqsw, I'm listening to Van Morrison now...Into The Mystic. Lovely lovely lovely. These music are made for tube amp like Elise. Are you using Mazda yet?
  
 Oooh Cyprus Avenue sounds good too. Ok it's Van Morrison day today.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Aqsw, I'm listening to Van Morrison now...Into The Mystic. Lovely lovely lovely. These music are made for tube amp like Elise. Are you using Mazda yet?
> 
> Oooh Cyprus Avenue sounds good too. Ok it's Van Morrison day today.




Not yet, only 24 hours in a day. Im going to let the mazdas burn in overnight.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Not yet, only 24 hours in a day. Im going to let he mazdas burn in overnight.


 
 Just listen to music while you burn it. That's what I do. You'll hear the music glowing as the clock ticks by. Tick tock, tick tock...euphoria !!!
  
 I don't leave Elise on over night unattended. Next thing you hear in the middle of the night is the siren of fire engine. I certainly don't use pink noise to burn it. What you need is real music.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Dang maybe there was a 6.3v version of FDD20




That should be called EDD20. The first letter gives the heater rating.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> That should be called EDD20. The first letter gives the heater rating.


 

 I think it deserve a better designation... BLUES20 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oskari, I'm about to find out if Mazda and Visseaus 6N7G are the same as you claim it to be.
  
 The seller told me this...
  
 perfect match with the chrome intact, try tester ancestor tc 160 100% mA / A
 still with 10.000 hours of work (made for the army therefore more robust)


----------



## UntilThen

I wrote this review of Elise when I first had her. That's more than a month ago. I didn't get around to putting it on the formal Elise review. I probably will but here's a first read.
  
*Elise by Feliks Audio*
  
 In the Spring of 2015, Elise came to Sydney Australia. It has been almost one year since Elise was born.
  
 I have watched the video, read others impressions of it and followed the thread created by Hypnos1. It was fascinating to see ideas discussed by the good folks in the thread and passed on to Feliks Audio, a small boutique Polish tube amplifiers business setup. Their website shows a few very nice looking stereo tube amplifiers. In the months of late Jun – Nov 2014, Feliks Audio started on the design that went through several iterations with feedback from the Head-Fi community. Eventually the 1st prototype was shown and she was named Elise. Hypnos1 received the 1st Elise being build and was delivered to him on the night before Christmas. I bet he missed the Christmas turkeys and forget to open all his other presents.
  
 In my hands now I have the box that contains Elise. Carefully I opened it to review a beautiful powder coated black steel enclosure of the highest quality I have ever seen.  The design is one of simplicity and grace. There’s not a screw on the upper part of the headamp. The front facia is simple with the large volume knob placed centrally and the headphone jack to the left. On top the sockets for the power and driver tubes are positioned symmetrically. At the back, the custom made stabilized toroidal transformer sits looking very big and purposeful.
  
 I inserted the supplied Russian 6H13C power tubes and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue driver tubes, flick the power switch on and let the tubes warm up. With the jack inserted I strap on my HD650. I chose to listen first with the HD650 because it’s a headphone that has gathered more attention than any other headphones I know. It’s also the headphone I love. I have with me the NAD D1050 DAC/Amp, which is use as a DAC for this purpose. My source is my dedicated iMac with Apple lossless file stored in iTunes. I have Audivarna Plus sitting on top of iTunes.
  
 I started listening to Local Hero by Mark Knopfler. This is my favourite tune. It is timeless, a real classic. There’s a sense of sadness as well as joy just listening to it. The guitar works of Knopfler is just amazing. Elise portrayed that well. I could hear Mark positioned in the middle, the crowd clapping and whistling. The saxophone player sits to the left and slightly behind. The drums kicks in and gradually gaining impact and momentum. I finished the song breathless.
  
 Next I listened to Preacherman by Melody Gardot. I sat transfixed as my ears got a good massage. My sensory organs were being tickled pink. I have listen to this song countless times but never as involving as I heard it through Elise now.
  
 Not satisfied I needed to know how it sounded with hard rock. For Whom The Bells Toll by Metallica really rock my brains. Elise has the power and the guts to grab my HD650 with both hands and wring every ounce of sonic juice out of it.
  
 I needed to listen to Nine Million Bicycles by Katie Melua. Nine million bicycles in Beijing and 6 billion people in the world. I fell in love with Katie Melua. The wordings and her voice, it’s just too beautiful to listen to.
  
 Being a Jazz and vocals lover I have to listen to Diana Krall – California Dreamin’. I’ve never heard Diana so close and intimate. I was in for a sensory treat. Her voice is so husky and seductive. As the instruments sets in I look around me thinking I heard something. It was the song going in my head and Elise made it so real.
  
 I finished off my listening with Fur Elise by Beethoven. The piano chords are crystal clear and struck with authority. This timeless classical song is a fitting tribute to Elise.
  
 These are my 1st impressions of Elise.  The tubes and amp aren’t even burn in.
  
 Months before I have been raving about the sound I got out of my Darkvoice 336se and HD650. I felt at that time it sounded really good. Surely it would be hard to improve on that combo without spending a lot more. Well I was so wrong. Elise provides a totally immersive sonic experience. I’m at a lost for words on describing the music I’m hearing right now. It is fast, lively and dynamic for a tube amp while at the same time there’s no mistaking the tube sound so beloved of tube headphone amplifiers. Equally present are the glow, lushness and alluring warmness that draws you in for a long night of listening to music.
  
 Just before finishing I swap my headphone to the Hifiman HE560. WOW. All that I dislike about this headphone being bright disappeared when paired with Elise. I get the warm and lush tones that I love in addition to the sparkling mid range and very clear high notes. It was a most linear presentation throughout the frequency spectrum. All my fears about Elise not being able to power a planar magnetic and difficult to drive headphone with low efficiency like the HE560 is gone on the very 1st notes. My volume control was only at 9 o’clock. Elise has the power and finesse to drive the HE560 to perfections. I’m SOLD.
  
 Wait …I’ve already bought Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Philips Miniwatt..FDD20..


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Elise has the power and finesse to drive the HE560 to perfections. I’m SOLD.
> 
> Wait …I’ve already bought Elise.




Looks Good, UT


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you 
  
 I wanted to capture my thoughts on the first day. If I could take a photographic image of my thoughts I would but failing that, putting pen to paper is the next best thing for me to do. I had to write about Elise with the stock tubes. This is all about Elise and my 1st impressions. More fancy tubes will follow later.
  
 Glad I got that out of the way. I'll be too lazy now to do a formal review. I'm more inclined to say 'Are you kidding me?', 'I'll have what she's having', 'Who put this green stuff in my burger?'.
  
 Well my thought of Elise has not changed with the passing of time. In fact I'm more engrossed now with fancy pants tubes that take the sound level up to cloud nine. What happiness, what joy, what a good way to spend your time listening to music that sounds so glorious.
  
 Btw your photographic skills are getting better by the minute.


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> The Elise is not the most juicy amp but if you apppreciate it direclty ne need to go with SS. In you case a version with 2/4 power tubes or 4 6AS7G  or 2 6336A could probaly be a beter fit.
> Do you use 5998 good power but add emphasis on lower spectrum, *did you find some Chatham 6520* anyway try the 6080 WA you just won?


 
 All very good advice regarding power tubes for Aqsw. TS 5998, Chatham 6520, Chatham 6AS7G and  Mullard 6080 or those 6080 that has carbon plates like the real Bendix.
  
 He who finds the Chatham 6520 is a happy man. I can't decide which I like more...the 5998 or 6520.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg what are these power tubes that cost $2000 for 4 of them?
  
 It says:-
  
 GIANT POWER TUBES GIANT VERSION OF THE 421-A / 5998 ALL FOUR TUBES ARE IN MINT CONDITION
 100% NEW NEVER USED MADE IN 1957. EACH TUBE COMES IN THE ORIGINAL BOX. ALL 4 TUBES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME MATCHED CODES AND DATES
  
 THESE TUBES ARE VERY LARGE TWICE THE SIZE OF THE WESTERN ELECTRIC 421-A
  
 7 people are watching...


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp for you I tested Visseaux 6A6 with Mullard 6080. I believe you have these tubes ready for Elise. The short answer is they're a very good combination. They may not look so co-ordinated because the power tubes are shorter behind but sound is more important. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This combo is as enjoyable as using Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes. Bass is solid and quality bass. Very sweet midrange - Mullard trademark. Polish treble and clear. In part this glorious sound is also due to the Visseaux 6A6. At US$26, you've a real bargain there for the drivers. I've just come from the 2 Philips FDD20 with 5998 and this combination sound amazingly good too compared to the former. It's no surprise as I scored the Visseaux 6A6 as 9.8. It has a more forward sound. It's the reason I prefer 2 FDD20.
  
 Visseaux 6A6 sounded a bit louder (slightly) as evident by the gain of 35 as compared to the FDD20 gain of 33. If you want a warmer tone, you'd then have to go with GE 6AS7AG as power tubes or use 2 ECC31 as drivers or use 2031 as drivers. Lots of ways to dial in warm if you think your HD700 needs more taming. I find the HE560 pairs beautifully with even Visseaux 6A6 and GE 6AS7GA ($22 a pair).
  
 Listening to Billy Gibbons 'Perfectamundo' ..it's electrifying with this setup. Bass is solid. I put on some dance music and my body started moving.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 On vocals such as Norah Jones 'Don't Know Why' it's sweet sound. I can see it being good with any genre. 
 The final test, I listen to 'Spirit Of Man' from War of the Worlds. If it's haunting, it pass the test. It's haunting alright...the hairs on my hands stood up.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Omg what are these power tubes that cost $2000 for 4 of them?
> 
> It says:-
> 
> ...


 
 UT,
  
 Those tubes are Triple Triode Low mu in the same familly you can have 7241 and 7242  (TungSol)... You will need a power plant to heat those (around 50W per tube 6.3V 7.5A ) you can get datasheet for the TG ones.
  
 If you want to go into more power, i suggest you to ask Lukasz or Gleen to build you a dedicated amp. A first and easy step is the 6336A  tube (you can even get some Mazda one that should paire well with your 6N7G http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/020/6/6336A.pdf ). I do not encourrage you to make an adapter to heat externally  without geting precise advise from the amp designer !


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> UT,
> 
> Those tubes are Triple Triode Low mu in the same familly you can have 7241 and 7242  (TungSol)... You will need a power plant to heat those (around 50W per tube 6.3V 7.5A ) you can get datasheet for the TG ones.
> 
> If you want to go into more power, i suggest you to ask Lukasz or Gleen to build you a dedicated amp. A first and easy step is the 6336A  tube (you can even get some Mazda one that should paire well with your 6N7G http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/020/6/6336A.pdf ). I do not encourrage you to make an adapter to heat externally  without geting precise advise from the amp designer !


 

 Haha I don't need any more power. I was just fascinated by those rare tubes with just a high price. Elise in her standard configuration is more than enough. Anymore is overkill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I don't need new tubes now. I've found my perfect tubes in 2 FDD20 with a variety of power tubes. This is end game for me as far as tube rolling on Elise is concerned.
  
 It will take a long while before I feel the need for an amp upgrade. I don't know if that day will come. I'm very content with Elise right now.


----------



## UntilThen

This setup is incredibly good and incredibly cheap. The GE 6AS7GA is an awesome power tube and at $11 each I can't recommend them enough. Been listening to this combo for the last few hours. Very happy with it.
  
 This is where you can buy those power tubes.
 https://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612
  
 And the looks...not too bad
  
 The GE 6AS7GA are warmer than the Mullard 6080 and are easier on my ears for extended listening.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Not yet, only 24 hours in a day. Im going to let the mazdas burn in overnight.


 
 Hi aqsw....glad things are coming along nicely for you - dramatic improvements to come, with the obligatory _*long*_ burn-in lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
 And re. burn-in...as mentioned already, not really safe to leave amp unattended...plus, the process seems to be accelerated by in fact _multiple_ shorter sessions, rather than fewer long ones...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> This setup is incredibly good and incredibly cheap. The GE 6AS7GA is an awesome power tube and at $11 each I can't recommend them enough. Been listening to this combo for the last few hours. Very happy with it.
> 
> This is where you can buy those power tubes.
> https://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...when ya gonna paint/CD marker/Oskari's black braid that red wire, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (No time for the loo, I fear!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp for you I tested Visseaux 6A6 with Mullard 6080. I believe you have these tubes ready for Elise. The short answer is they're a very good combination. They may not look so co-ordinated because the power tubes are shorter behind but sound is more important.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks UT. Now all I need is my Elise!!! Can't wait )))


----------



## jerick70

pctazhp said:


> Thanks UT. Now all I need is my Elise!!! Can't wait )))


 

 Still waiting for my Elise here too.  It was first in production queue last week.  Reading this thread without an Elise is like having your hands tied behind your back.  I want to contribute but alas have nothing to say because I don't have the goods.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This just came on my big Random play list...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7RZ_r8P0A0[/VIDEO]

Can you dig it?

BTW, there is one sax player in the band...he played multiple horns at once, and played flute with his nose!



.


----------



## aqsw

I just stuck :mad:the Mazdas back in. Getting distortion at 1/4 volume. Not sure whats going on.


----------



## aqsw

Im thinking it might be one of my adaptors. When I wiggle the tube a major hum. When I wiggle it back to no hum, it distorts.


----------



## hpamdr

aqsw said:


> Im thinking it might be one of my adaptors. When I wiggle the tube a major hum. When I wiggle it back to no hum, it distorts.


 
 I got some asian adapter not well built also with the exact same symptoms hum when you twist a little and mudded sound (before i got the Elise) tis is generally due to defective soleding or bad wire insulation. I decided to do build them myself now. I recommand backelite or ceramic base a it is easier to work with !


----------



## hypnos1

jerick70 said:


> Still waiting for my Elise here too.  It was first in production queue last week.  Reading this thread without an Elise is like having your hands tied behind your back.  I want to contribute but alas have nothing to say because I don't have the goods.


 
  
 No worries, j70...I'm sure you'll more than make up for it when she's in your hands, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I sure hope so! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


aqsw said:


> Im thinking it might be one of my adaptors. When I wiggle the tube a major hum. When I wiggle it back to no hum, it distorts.


 
  
 I feel your frustration aqsw...but all will be well in the end, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...are those the better quality brass-base ones? If not, I suggest you get yourself a pair...*soon*, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Me, I'm still in love with Elise + 2031......
  

  
 I simply cannot believe the clarity, separation and detail (among _many_ other qualities!) these tubes are delivering...(helped, I'm sure, by the amazing GECs lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Having become convinced the Siemens C3g'S' was unbeatable in the clarity/detail stakes, this driver combo (as, no doubt, with 2x FDD20s also) has definitely changed all that.
  
 This has just been confirmed (yet again!) by revisiting Kate Bush's "Army Dreamers" and "Babooshka", the first of which especially has a few lines that are a bit tricky to decipher the lyrics in, given her very unconventional voice lol!...Well, for the very first time I've managed to make out _most_ of the words without having to ramp up the volume higher than I would like...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...a feat not even my beloved C3gSs could manage to quite the same degree...Once again, the Elise's capabilities - especially when treated to some nice partners in the rest of the system - continue to amaze me...(as if y'all didn't already know that, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 ENJOY!....


----------



## aqsw

hpamdr said:


> I got some asian adapter not well built also with the exact same symptoms hum when you twist a little and mudded sound (before i got the Elise) tis is generally due to defective soleding or bad wire insulation. I decided to do build them myself now. I recommand backelite or ceramic base a it is easier to work with !



I'm wondering if he gold plated ones by mrsx are good or can i get better.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Still waiting for my Elise here too.  It was first in production queue last week.  Reading this thread without an Elise is like having your hands tied behind your back.  I want to contribute but alas have nothing to say because I don't have the goods.


 

 Your time will come Jerick. I'm eagerly awaiting your impression of Elise with your LCD2.2 and 3. I hope you have some nice tubes ready. With those Audezes I suggest some brighter , more energetic tubes.


----------



## hpamdr

aqsw said:


> I'm wondering if he gold plated ones by mrsx are good or can i get better.


 
 I do not Know, but first you should ask replacement for the defective pair generally good seller accept to send you a new pair before you open a dispute on ebay or paypal..
 Gold plated, silver wire, OCC, are marketing option but here the most important is the ability to solder properly and do good contact.
*MrsX adapter are generaly OK*, But if you can find Diyer near your place who can do it for you give him the same amount and you will be both happy !


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm wondering if he gold plated ones by mrsx are good or can i get better.


 

 Hi Aqsw, buy these gold ones from xulingmrs... http://www.ebay.com/itm/201134198992?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 These ones from suzier are cheap ...you get what you pay for. Mine aren't very level. The tubes are a bit slanting but also I get a bit feedback with 6N7 whereas the gold ones were dead silent.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281787407615?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I've been fortunate. None of my adapters gave me any problems. You shouldn't be having problems too. Get the seller to give you replacements for those adapters as well as buy a pair of those gold ones.
  
 I really want you to sample the glorious sound of the Mazdas, not to forget the one ECC31 to pair with a FDD20.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Your time will come Jerick. I'm eagerly awaiting your impression of Elise with your LCD2.2 and 3. I hope you have some nice tubes ready. With those Audezes I suggest some brighter , more energetic tubes.


 
  
 Thanks UT.  Alas I only have the LCD 2F so you will hear about that for sure.  I'm looking at some LCD 3s so I may have those soon too.  So far I have the Philip Miniwatt FDD20s and Chatham Copper Rod 6AS7Gs.  I like a darker sound.  I'll have to do a lot of tube rolling to see what I like.    
  


hypnos1 said:


> No worries, j70...I'm sure you'll more than make up for it when she's in your hands, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes you will hear plenty from me.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Thanks UT.  Alas I only have the LCD 2F so you will hear about that for sure.  I'm looking at some LCD 3s so I may have those soon too.  So far I have the Philip Miniwatt FDD20s and Chatham Copper Rod 6AS7Gs.  I like a darker sound.  I'll have to do a lot of tube rolling to see what I like.


 
 Audeze must love you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The tubes you have are very good combination. What? You have the Philips? Congrats !!! You have the best combination then, short of getting a pair of GEC 6AS7G, which I don't think you need.
  
 Try those first. If you need more warm, substitute one FDD20 for a ECC31 to get the fame 2031 combination. This will give you lovely sound too with more warm and bass but I really think you'll have enough with 2 FDD20 and the Chatham 6AS7G and your LCD 2F.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Me, I'm still in love with Elise + 2031......


 
 It's easy to see or hear why H1. I'm back on 2031 land. This combo certainly has more warm, lushness and bass compared to 2 FDD20. In addition, as you mentioned, the stunning clarity and details are still there. A 10 for sure. I could just rock between these 2 setups all day and night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm running with a pair of Chatham 6AS7G with these setups now.
  
 Listening to Joss Stone now.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...when ya gonna paint/CD marker/Oskari's black braid that red wire, lol?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If I can get my hands on black braid I will but right now I'm unconcerned. With sound this good, I can just focus on the music. Seriously I never thought I'd be one to tolerate cables running all over but now they add to the appeal lol. I've even put in storage my brand new PC with the 2 big screens so that my desk have ample space with just the iMac and the head-fi gear.
  
 I'm consumed with music listening now. This sound is too good. My family is concerned for me. They are getting me to play tennis, go bush walking and cycling again. I'm loving the fresh air but when I'm out I miss my unique tube amp sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers to us (like JV would say) the lucky ones.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Me, I'm still in love with Elise + 2031......


 
 H1, your 2031 setup looks so neat and nice, like they're standard kit. I'm so envious. And those GEC 6AS7G behind.... I think I still haven't attain the sound you're hearing.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg 43,471 views. What have you guys done.


----------



## hpamdr

jerick70 said:


> Thanks UT.  Alas I only have the LCD 2F so you will hear about that for sure.  I'm looking at some LCD 3s so I may have those soon too.  So far I have the Philip Miniwatt FDD20s and Chatham Copper Rod 6AS7Gs.  I like a darker sound.  I'll have to do a lot of tube rolling to see what I like.
> 
> 
> Yes you will hear plenty from me.


 

 This is a good combo burrrrrrrrrning..... Chase for a pair of WE 421A or 5998  and for driver  ECC 31 / FDD20 or even european made 6N7G.
 Your bursonised H10 will stay on a rack


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, your 2031 setup looks so neat and nice, like they're standard kit. I'm so envious. And those GEC 6AS7G behind.... I think I still haven't attain the sound you're hearing.


 
  
 Thanks UT...I do like _neat_, lol...but of course it's the _sound_ that counts...so whatever it takes y'all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(those white adapters aren't looking too bad at all, actually...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps....just keep that sharp eye out for mislabeled GECs LOL!...(but I suspect your 6520s are _very_ close...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> Omg 43,471 views. What have you guys done.


 
  
 How did you know I was looking at that very figure just now?...and wondering, _what?!!_...


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> This is a good combo burrrrrrrrrning..... Chase for a pair of WE 421A or 5998  and for driver  ECC 31 / FDD20 or even european made 6N7G.
> Your bursonised H10 will stay on a rack


 

 5998 is good indeed but they're so expensive now. I can't see myself paying another $239 for a new pair. The WE 421A is outrageously expensive now. It's hard to even get a pair. I think the money is better spend on a pair of GEC 6AS7G.
  
 My pair of Chatham 6520 is indeed a steal at AUD$100. I just swap the Chatham 6AS7G to Chatham 6520 and I can hear the slight difference. It sounds more holographic to my ears. Incredible, 2 weeks ago I haven't even heard of 6520. 
  
 I definitely have a preference of 6AS7 type power tubes over the 6080. Oh well maybe that's because I don't have the GEC 6080 and Bendix 6080WB. The seller who sold me the Chatham 6520 says he has a pair of GEC 6080. I wanted him to sell it to me but he flatly refused, saying they're very rare now. What a bummer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Anyone have any pics of inside Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Anyone have any pics of inside Elise?


 

 That is sacred. As responsible users, we need to respect the intellectual rights of tube amp designers. I don't think we should be publishing inside photos of Elise without Feliks Audio consent. Besides it will certainly void your 2 years warranty. 
  
 You do have a picture that was release by Feliks Audio. It's on the 1st page of the original Elise thread.
  
 This was all that was released by Feliks Audio. Some spots are blurred out to retain their design specifics but it's good enough to get an idea what it looks like.


----------



## jerick70

hpamdr said:


> This is a good combo burrrrrrrrrning..... Chase for a pair of WE 421A or 5998  and for driver  ECC 31 / FDD20 or even european made 6N7G.
> Your bursonised H10 will stay on a rack


 
  
 I'm going to have to get purchasing because my Elise will be here soon.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> 5998 is good indeed but they're so expensive now. I can't see myself paying another $239 for a new pair. The WE 421A is outrageously expensive now. It's hard to even get a pair. I think the money is better spend on a pair of GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> My pair of Chatham 6520 is indeed a steal at AUD$100. I just swap the Chatham 6AS7G to Chatham 6520 and I can hear the slight difference. It sounds more holographic to my ears. Incredible, 2 weeks ago I haven't even heard of 6520.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice.  I need some of these!


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Very nice.  I need some of these!


 

 Jerick, these Bendix 6080 are still available on eBay but they've gone back to $299 from $239. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-BENDIX-RED-BANK-6080WB-6080-5998-421A-CARBON-PLATES-VINTAGE-1960S-USA-/301805596010?hash=item464503ed6a:g:HSMAAOSwf-VWUZMp ...make an offer of a low price and see what happens. 
  
 You have 2 years warranty on these tubes..1st time I've seen this. Oh you've to pay $67.99 for that lol.


----------



## UntilThen

This one is a real deal. Graphite plates but there's only one tube.
  
 $45 shipping for me...you must be joking !!!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Mint-NOS-Test-Chatham-6080WB-Graphite-Plate-Audio-Tube-/151903395684?hash=item235e25df64:g:U7EAAOSwnipWX4dh


----------



## PerfectAnalog

untilthen said:


> That is sacred. As responsible users, we need to respect the intellectual rights of tube amp designers. I don't think we should be publishing inside photos of Elise without Feliks Audio consent. Besides it will certainly void your 2 years warranty.




This works. Trying to get an idea on why mfg takes so long. It's clearly a manual process I see. 

If you look at what schiit did with theirs, they set them up for mass production.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> The seller who sold me the Chatham 6520 says he has a pair of GEC 6080. I wanted him to sell it to me but he flatly refused, saying they're very rare now. What a bummer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Langrex seems to have some on ebay but they are getting somewhat dear.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> This works. Trying to get an idea on why mfg takes so long. It's clearly a manual process I see.
> 
> If you look at what schiit did with theirs, they set them up for mass production.


 

 Ok understand PA. Yes it's a manual process and Lukasz confirms that to me. Henryk, his dad is personally involved in each and every Elise. Henryk is the master designer btw. Creator of all the Feliks Audio tube amps and headphone tube amps. The whole family is involved.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Langrex seems to have some on ebay but they are getting somewhat dear.


 

 Ooooo GBP 65 each. I should sell 2 of my ECC31 and buy a pair maybe...
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-CV8614-GEC-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/262052528418?hash=item3d038c4122


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ooooo GBP 65 each. I should sell 2 of my ECC31 and buy a pair maybe...
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-CV8614-GEC-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/262052528418?hash=item3d038c4122


 
  
 Just curious. What do you think of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-421A-5998-TUBE-19-/291631982030?hash=item43e69ee5ce:g:MY8AAOSwwE5WYqVd ?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Just curious. What do you think of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-421A-5998-TUBE-19-/291631982030?hash=item43e69ee5ce:g:MY8AAOSwwE5WYqVd ?


 

 I think they are very nice, so is the price. WE 421A are premier 5998. You can see the dimples on the plates or which is call the domino plates. Being WE 421A, I'm not surprise at the price. A few people have said they sounded better than the normal 5998.
  
 If you go for it, I'll be really keen to hear your impressions.
  
 The seller have 2 sets listed for sale. What do you think @Oskari. Does that look real to you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 See this one is definitely genuine with original box but it tested low.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Jerick, these Bendix 6080 are still available on eBay but they've gone back to $299 from $239. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-BENDIX-RED-BANK-6080WB-6080-5998-421A-CARBON-PLATES-VINTAGE-1960S-USA-/301805596010?hash=item464503ed6a:g:HSMAAOSwf-VWUZMp ...make an offer of a low price and see what happens.
> 
> You have 2 years warranty on these tubes..1st time I've seen this. Oh you've to pay $67.99 for that lol.




Have you heard these in the Elise? Are they worth the entry fee?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Have you heard these in the Elise? Are they worth the entry fee?


 
 No I have not heard them in Elise. I've not heard the Bendix 6080 which is very rare now. If I had to choose spending $299 on the Bendix or $295 on the WE 421A, I'd go with the WE 421A. That's just me.
  
 That WE 421A seller has a lot of 421A in his store  and 6570 positive feedback.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> The seller have 2 sets listed for sale. What do you think @Oskari. Does that look real to you?


 
  
 They'd fool me.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> No I have not heard them in Elise. I've not heard the Bendix 6080 which is very rare now. If I had to choose spending $299 on the Bendix or $295 on the WE 421A, I'd go with the WE 421A. That's just me.




I like the asthetics of the 421A better. It looks like a fine woman.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> They'd fool me.


 

 Oskari talk straight. Is it real or fake? Stop drinking at this time hahahaha. Big dollars here.


----------



## aqsw

After one day with the Elise, I have put my Oppo HA1 up for sale on Canadian Audiomart. It doesn't compare to the carbon or Elise. I just bought a preowned Hegel Hd11 for the Carbon.

The Liquid Carbon and Hegel HD11 will be replacing the Oppo in my office.

My home system will be the Hegel HD12 and the Elise. .

LC could be in trouble too if a MKII Elise is ever made

Dire Straits convinced me!


----------



## UntilThen

2 FDD20 with 5998 is like a 100 years old wine. If you get the WE 421A, I can only imagine it will be better, even though some say they are the same. I very much doubt they sound the same. The WE 421A are premier 5998.
  
 This setup now has kept me in my chair the whole morning.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Oskari talk straight. Is it real or fake? Stop drinking at this time hahahaha. Big dollars here.




They look good to me. That's what I meant.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> After one day with the Elise, I have put my Oppo HA1 up for sale on Canadian Audiomart. It doesn't compare to the carbon or Elise. I just bought a preowned Hegel Hd11 for the Carbon.
> 
> The Liquid Carbon and Hegel HD11 will be replacing the Oppo in my office.
> 
> ...




I owned an HA-1. I was disappointed with the sound, but it had a killer feature set. I ended up selling it too.

I'm almost wishing I didn't cancel my LC order. Do you think I should get in on the current order?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> After one day with the Elise, I have put my Oppo HA1 up for sale on Canadian Audiomart. It doesn't compare to the carbon or Elise. I just bought a preowned Hegel Hd11 for the Carbon.
> 
> The Liquid Carbon and Hegel HD11 will be replacing the Oppo in my office.
> 
> ...


 
 Aqsw, do be kind to the Feliks Audio folks. Such talks will swamp them with orders that they will miss Christmas, Easter and all the public holidays. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm glad you kept Elise at home. Home is where the heart is. You obviously like Elise now. You are in dire straits !!!
  
 Did you listen to Leonard? It's sounding so good here..Mr Cohen.


----------



## aqsw

I always listen to Leonard.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> They look good to me. That's what I meant.


 

 Ah ok thank you Oskari. Come to Sydney and I buy you Aussie beer.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> I owned an HA-1. I was disappointed with the sound, but it had a killer feature set. I ended up selling it too.
> 
> I'm almost wishing I didn't cancel my LC order. Do you think I should get in on the current order?




I have no regrets getting the LC. It sounds fantastic. For a ss, I would highly recommend it.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I have no regrets getting the LC. It sounds fantastic. For a ss, I would highly recommend it.


 

 It depends if you like Apple or Orange. If you like Apple, get Elise. If you like Orange, get LC. If you like both Apple and Orange, get both.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> It depends if you like Apple or Orange. If you like Apple, get Elise. If you like Orange, get LC. If you like both Apple and Orange, get both.




I agree, I'm lucky enough to have both, after a very long wait!


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I have no regrets getting the LC. It sounds fantastic. For a ss, I would highly recommend it.




Well I'm regretting not getting one now. I may have to put my tube buying on hold and order an LC.

Sorry, I'm getting off topic. I appoligize. I'll take this conversation to the LC thread.....


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I agree, I'm lucky enough to have both, after a very long wait!


 

 Aqsw you're still listening to the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. Wait till you put in the FDD20 or Mazda and have it working properly. Then I want to hear your impressions again.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Well I'm regretting not getting one now. I may have to put my tube buying on hold and order an LC.
> 
> Sorry, I'm getting off topic. I appoligize. I'll take this conversation to the LC thread.....


 

 Jerick if you get the LC, there's no more rolling to do. You can only power it on or off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What's the hurry? It's not like they will only produce one batch of LC. Get Elise, listen to it. If you're still itching then order your LC.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Aqsw you're still listening to the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. Wait till you put in the FDD20 or Mazda and have it working properly. Then I want to hear your impressions again.




This is exactly why l love the Elise. You have so much room for tweaking with different tubes. And this is partially why I cancelled the LC.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> This is exactly why l love the Elise. You have so much room for tweaking with different tubes. And this is partially why I cancelled the LC.


 

 Let's just say that there's at least 70% improvement in sound switching the driver and power tubes to those choice ones. That's not exaggeration.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Jerick if you get the LC, there's no more rolling to do. You can only power it on or off.
> 
> What's the hurry? It's not like they will only produce one batch of LC. Get Elise, listen to it. If you're still itching then order your LC.




Exactly. I'm a tweaker at heart. Love to get my hands dirty and upgrade. I replaced quite a few caps and resistors in my LD VI+. Not quite what they are doing in the current crazy LD VI+ tweaking thread though.

The only thing I'm worried about is Cavelli raising the price....


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Exactly. I'm a tweaker at heart. Love to get my hands dirty and upgrade. I replaced quite a few caps and resistors in my LD VI+. Not quite what they are doing in the current crazy LD VI+ tweaking thread though.
> 
> *The only thing I'm worried about is Cavelli raising the price....*


 
 That's a good point. Do you honestly think that Elise will stay put at $649? I really think it's price low for a start...
  
 All good products start this way. Price low to get a foothold and then it will go up.
  
 Mind you, Elise introductory price was $499. It's psychological. If you price too low, it's view as not a good product. Price too high and you will only get stares. So the trick is to price it right.
  
 The thing is, there are a lot of headphone amps now on the market all vying for our dollar. Head-Fi is gaining popularity while Hi-Fi languish.


----------



## jerick70

I hope your not thinking I'm going to cancel my Elise. I'd never do that. I love tubes much more than SS. Plus Elise is hand made and beautiful. Never, Never. I'm a tube guy first and foremost.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> That's a good point. Do you honestly think that Elise will stay put at $649? I really think it's price low for a start...
> 
> All good products start this way. Price low to get a foothold and then it will go up.
> 
> ...




Yes agreed. Very good point.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Jerick if you get the LC, there's no more rolling to do. You can only power it on or off.
> 
> What's the hurry? It's not like they will only produce one batch of LC. Get Elise, listen to it. If you're still itching then order your LC.




The buzz that I heard from one of the original 4 guys that got the prototypes, is that this is the end of the carbons. The Dr. did this to get people into his high end 
amps. He makes nomoney on these. No more runs.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I hope your not thinking I'm going to cancel my Elise. I'd never do that. I love tubes much more than SS. Plus Elise is hand made and beautiful. Never, Never. I'm a tube guy first and foremost.


 

 No I wasn't thinking that. I can tell you're a tube guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was just expanding on what you said about price rising, which is a fact.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> The buzz that I heard from one of the original 4 guys that got the prototypes, is that this is the end of the carbons. The Dr. did this to get people into his high end
> amps. He makes nomoney on these. No more runs.




I heard the exact same thing. Off I go to purchase the LC....


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> No I wasn't thinking that. I can tell you're a tube guy.
> 
> I was just expanding on what you said about price rising, which is a fact.




Gotcha. Yes the tube glow is my love.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> The buzz that I heard from one of the original 4 guys that got the prototypes, is that this is the end of the carbons. The Dr. did this to get people into his high end
> amps. He makes nomoney on these. No more runs.


 

 Lol I really like to see how this story ends. There's 2 scenarios to this. One, what the rumour say is true and this is the only batch. Two, it will get an unexpected big order initially. Nobody has a business model to make no money. There's no guarantee those who buy a $699 LC will spend more to buy the more expensive model. I think $700 is the sweet comfort spot for most people. Beyond that you need to move their emotional being.
  
 Being a tube amp lover, I'm not moved by the buzz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I won't even buy it for $500 !!!


----------



## geetarman49

for those debating about 5998 and 421a;
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/506133/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421
  
 i have neither so this is just fyi.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> for those debating about 5998 and 421a;
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/506133/visual-evidence-tung-sol-5998-western-electric-421
> 
> i have neither so this is just fyi.


 

 Yes I am aware that Tung Sol made the 421A and there has been 'debates' about whether WE 421A are better than 5998. Early proponents says no but if you read that thread, the last person who owns both says he can tell a difference.
  
 My advice to those thinking about buying WE 421A is to use your discretion. Even if it's better, question is how much better. Would the higher price justify it? Or perhaps your'e a collector and having all power tubes means much to you.
  
 That's my take.


----------



## aqsw

My son came over to see the Elise. He knows it will be his one day. LOL

He brought his Schiit Bifrost (first edition).. We hooked it up, and I must say, BUY a HEGEL. Wow, what a difference.
A quality dac is just what the Elise feeds on. I can only imagine when I hook up my quality drivers. I don't wantto move my tungsol 5998s though.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Yes I am aware that Tung Sol made the 421A and there has been 'debates' about whether WE 421A are better than 5998. Early proponents says no but if you read that thread, the last person who owns both says he can tell a difference.
> 
> My advice to those thinking about buying WE 421A is to use your discretion. Even if it's better, question is how much better. Would the higher price justify it? Or perhaps your'e a collector and having all power tubes means much to you.
> 
> That's my take.




I agree, I paid 175 shipped to my door for the 5998s.They measured at about 95%. I couldn't see paying the huge premium for the name, and a little better performance. (Maybe)


----------



## mordy

Just found this review of the WE421A on the 6AS7 tube rolling thread - written a few hours ago: 
  
 11 hours, 44 minutes ago 

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/f7/100x100px-LS-f7263410_DSC_0890.jpeg[/img] 
 
-MisterX-




 
offline
 
384 Posts. Joined 12/2014
Location: Sweden
 

  A couple of weeks ago I received a quad set of NOS WE421A's.
 I never thought I'd find a matched quad set of these tubes, let alone buy them, lol. But when I saw these for sale I just had to get them.
  
 They are all made in 1967 week 52, and are new and unused. I was very curious how they would test in my Heathkit TT1A tester. As you may know, the WE421A datasheet suggests a GM of 20000, compared to the 14000 of a "normal" 5998. These all tested around 16500-17000 on my tester, which is quite far from the 20000 spec, but still way higher than any 5998 I've tested before. Now that I think about it, I've never actually seen a listing for a WE421A were the seller states a transconductance of 20000 umhos.
  
 In the past I've compared the 5998's to the GEC A1834/CV2523/6AS7G's. And found the GEC's to be the superior tube IMO. I've actually recently sold all my 5998's thinking that the GEC's were the only powertube I'd ever need.
 The 5998 has huge soundstage, clarity, detail and impact. But I found the GEC's to have just that plus more of everything and a warmer smoother sound than the 5998's.
  
 Now, comparing the GEC's to the WE421A's I've found the new (IMO) king of powertubes for my setup. I fell in love with their sound almost immediately. Bass slam is incredible, hits hard, fast and accurate. Amazing clarity and detail. Basically a 5998 on steroids! One thing I noticed though is with the GEC's I preferred using the Mullard ECC32/33/35 as drivers. With the WE421A's, the slightly warmer TS BGRP really lets these output tubes shine.
  
 So I think anyone that's stating that there's no difference between the 5998's and the 421A's just have not heard the 421A. Granted, none of my previous 5998's were manufactured in 1967, like these 421A's, nor were they NOS. But still, the difference is clearly noticeable. At least in my setup!
  
 YMMV, and all that good stuff.
  

  
 Interesting.....


----------



## mordy

Hi aqsw,
  
 Sorry to hear that you have trouble with some of the tubes and distortion etc. I had similar problems with the adapters and found that by jiggling the tubes/adapters gently and even pulling the tubes in and out I was able to get rid of the static.
  
 I use the Elise as a preamp and listen through speakers and it is easy enough to hear when the noise goes away.
  
 In addition, you may need to check that your tube pins are clean of oxidation. Scraping gently with a little dull pen knife or similar works well for me.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Just found this review of the WE421A on the 6AS7 tube rolling thread - written a few hours ago:
> 
> 11 hours, 44 minutes ago
> 
> ...


 
 That was in my original thoughts and MisterX confirms it. However the link geetarman shows a lot of old timers (no need to mention names here, you can read it yourself) thinks that the WE 421A and 5998 sound the same. Like I say, the last guy in the thread also claim they sound different and he has both.
  
 All I would say is if you really want to know, then buy those tubes and find out for yourself. Or be like me. Buy what you like and can afford and be happy with it. Stop thinking of 'what if' I had gotten chicken burger instead of beef burger. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Right now 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G/6520 sounds glorious to me. I'm happy and not perturbed that I didn't have WE 421A or GEC 6AS7G until one falls from the sky. So if anyone is throwing it down under, please provide advance notice.
  
 Btw I like MisterX tubes. They all wear headbands.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> My son came over to see the Elise. He knows it will be his one day. LOL
> 
> He brought his Schiit Bifrost (first edition).. We hooked it up, and I must say, BUY a HEGEL. Wow, what a difference.
> A quality dac is just what the Elise feeds on. I can only imagine when I hook up my quality drivers. I don't wantto move my tungsol 5998s though.


 

 So you buy a $2000 DAC to partner a $649 Elise. Great. It's either they lower the price of Hegel or raise the price of Elise. We need some price matching here.
 Being cheeky here. Of course you can use Hegel and it's obviously a great DAC.
  
 Also, you don't need to move the 5998. You just need to buy that 'lot of 16' 5998 on eBay. That should last you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-16-PIECES-6520-5998-CHATHAM-POWER-TRIODES-VINTAGE-USA-TUBES-6AS7-421A-/301782858560?hash=item4643a8fb40:g:SwMAAOSwBahVQbsO
  
 Aqsw, FDD20 with 5998 really sound amazing. Likewise 2031. You have to try it.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 No thinking "what if" here! Rather, I'll try to find great sound for very little money. In addition to the joy of unbelievably great sound, the affordable price makes me happy as well.
  
 Let's see - stupendous sound for $3 + 9 + 4 + 4 = $20. Incl shipping.
  
 A pair of of GE HP branded 6AS7GA (bought separately) and a Tung Sol and Westinghouse 6BL7GTA. All right, truth in advertising: I bought 5 used 6AS7GA for $15, one separately for $9 to get a same date copper post pair, and 15 assorted 6BL7 for around $55 in a couple of lots.
  
 I happen to have pairs of both the Tung Sol and Westinghouse, but due to the 20/31 effect they sound better mixed.
  
 Am using the Elise as a preamp listening through speakers. The Tung Sol/Westinghouse combination beats the Mazda 6N7G. The only area where the Mazda is better is the width of the sound stage. Think an aspect ratio of 16:9 compared to 3:2.
  
 Gibosi made me aware of a Head Fi review of the 6BL7 - here I am only quoting the positive aspects verbatim:
  
_really impressive resolution and detail
 It has great tone, maybe the best I've heard, and sounds balanced and natural with great bass drive.
 Great for revealing layers
 It is a nice sounding tube all around and has better bass than any 6SN7 I own along with great detail and correctness of tone.
 it reveals details in a recording in a way I've never heard before.  Almost like the music is being dissected and laid out for you_
  
 This reviewer found great faults with the sound stage though - unnatural and messed up. To my surprise I was able to duplicate this strange sound stage with one set of 6BL7 tubes that I have - a RCA and RCA branded Sylvania. But when i switched back to the TS/W combo the magic returned. Don't know why the other tubes did mess up the sound stage, but I have two TS/W sets, and they both sound fantastic. (Another pair of early 50's Sylvania had a very good sound stage as well.) Still need to explore more 6BL7 tubes and combinations, as well as 6BL7 tubes of different construction.
  
 Inviting others to try the 6BL7 as driver tubes in a preamp setting (needs an external power supply since the Elise only can use 1A driver tubes and these are 1.5A.)


----------



## UntilThen

Ok cheap tubes, expensive tubes, they are all vying for ascendancy. Every tube wants the crown. That depends on which kingdom receives the King. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm about to revisit ECC31 and 5998 again with both HD650 and HE560. Now this is an expensive setup. It's $439 for the 4 tubes here. Crazy did you say? 3/4 the price of Elise. I know many here love this setup. I used to but since the arrival of the French and Italian tubes, the ECC31 have been in the drawer except when I need one for 2031 duty.
  
 So here's taking off my bias hat and I'm ready for a serious listen again. Stay tune.


----------



## Lorspeaker

is there gonna be a christmas sale... price going back to once upon a time?


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wow Lors, you're getting more beautiful each time I see you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Elise on sale? You'll be lucky there's no price increase. You can however buy Aqsw Oppo HA-1 at a discount.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Has anyone measured Elise's current draw at the wall? (120V)


----------



## hpamdr

Lorspeaker
 You should ask to tooth faiiry, she could get in touch with Santa's lepreshaum. If they can build some. Be Confident and be a good boy, you will get one under X'mass tree...
  
 -- Edited
 Elise is hand crafted and you have to wait more than a month to get it after you order it. It is already a precious gift when you listen some music.
 If you want to get one for less, ask Directly to FeliksAudio for a discount.


----------



## UntilThen

*Mullard ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998*
  
 Ok buy it...review over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't believe I score it that low in the past. Either my hearing's change or the tubes' burn in. 9.8 is the score.
  
 I put it through a repertoire of songs. All type of genre except classical. This setup excel in everything. Bass is phenomenal. Vocals have a DIVA texture and trebles clear and smooth. This is velvety chocolate of the best variety. Warm and lush, anything more and it's sauna. Think of a hot summer's day, you're lying on a hammock, a Hawaiian girl is fanning you with a big leaf while another serve you a cocktail. You've on your favourite headphone connected to Elise, which is battery powered. The music comes on and you feel tongue licking your face. You awake to see your dog, eyes bright looking at you and you realise it's late, you have to be off to work.
  
 So in summary, you'll love this with anything ranging from Jazz, Rock, Metal, Electronic, Dance, Blues and R&B Soul. The Mullard ECC31 feels smooth, refined, detailed with gorgeous midrange and bass. You won't be disappointed and your money's well spent.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Has anyone measured Elise's current draw at the wall? (120V)


 

 Sorry PA I can't help you there. I'm 240v. Any reasons for the question?


----------



## UntilThen

So having just finished with 2 ECC31 and 5998, it's natural that I remove one ECC31 and replace with a FDD20. Bingo we have the 2031.
  
 To say that I like this is an understatement. Now the mid range is more energised and forward. A slight gain increase makes a big difference. Treble is very clear now, yet smooth. Bass is still commanding. When I make the switch I did not compensate my volume and when 'Dreams' by Fleetwood Mac came on, I had the shock of my life. The song jump at me, loud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Next I'll remove the ECC31 and replace with another FDD20, making it a 2 FDD20 and 5998 combo. If you have these tubes, I suggest you try this exercise. You'll be able to sample 3 different presentations, all exciting and good, just by changing one driver at a time.


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> Lorspeaker
> You should ask to tooth faiiry, she could get in touch with Santa's lepreshaum. If they can build some. Be Confident and be a good boy, you will get one under X'mass tree...
> 
> -- Edited
> ...


 

@Lorspeaker doesn't need a discount. He has the Orpheus already.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> So having just finished with 2 ECC31 and 5998, it's natural that I remove one ECC31 and replace with a FDD20. Bingo we have the 2031.
> 
> To say that I like this is an understatement. Now the mid range is more energised and forward. A slight gain increase makes a big difference. Treble is very clear now, yet smooth. Bass is still commanding. When I make the switch I did not compensate my volume and when 'Dreams' by Fleetwood Mac came on, I had the shock of my life. The song jump at me, loud.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great idea UT, and a very interesting exercise - the sort perhaps not enough people do in head-fi tubeland?, IMHO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(with an _open _mind also, that is..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Something else I've only really just noticed - thanks to a very poorly balanced (sacrilege!!) recording of the incredible tenor Jonas Kaufman - the 2031 combo is managing (somehow!) to improve further upon the Elise's already excellent handling of dynamic range...ie. instead of the orchestra horridly drowning his voice in his fabulous rendering of "E Lucevan le Stelle" and "Vesti la giubba", 2031 - thankfully!! - reduces it to just 'slightly' drowning him. A welcome feat that neither 2x FDD20s nor 2x ECC31s (nor C3GSs!) could manage. And for this alone, I am truly in awe lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(not to mention enabling the volume pot to be safely turned up a bit more!)...just an observation...
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## nephilim

Still waiting for Elise and Mrs Xuling's adapters for external power supply... however, I just finished the Y-adapter to connect one or two tubes with the power supply.
  
 For those who don't like the black/red wires on xulingmrs' adapters another alternative to CD marker would be heat shrink tubing.


----------



## Suuup

Today is Van Morrison day for me. Tupelo Honey never sounded as good, as it does with these Fivre 6N7G brown-base. If you ever find any, buy them instantly!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I think they are very nice, so is the price. WE 421A are premier 5998. You can see the dimples on the plates or which is call the domino plates. Being WE 421A, I'm not surprise at the price. A few people have said they sounded better than the normal 5998.
> 
> If you go for it, I'll be really keen to hear your impressions.


 
 Thanks UT. I'm very tempted but think I will pass on these. I already have the following power tubes:
  
 6520 PAIR NOS *NEW CHATHAM / TUNGSOL POWER TUBES = WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A 421-A 
  
 6080 MULLARD NOS MATCHED PAIR VALVE/TUBE  
  
 Pair 6AS7GA GE JAN Vacuum Tube 072-612 – Parts Express
  
 And don't even have the Elise yet.
  
 By the way, my 6520s arrived. They look exactly like yours as far as I can tell.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

> Sorry PA I can't help you there. I'm 240v. Any reasons for the question?




While waiting for my Elise, I'm building a companion box that takes the input of 120V AC from the wall and 19V DC from my grounded AC adapter, runs them through a single 4pst switch, and outputs 120V AC for the Elise and 12.5V DC for the fdd20 tubes. It gives me a single on/off toggle on the front of a box that controls both. 

So I'm trying to ensure that I don't exceed the current limitations of any of the components I'm using.


----------



## hpamdr

perfectanalog said:


> While waiting for my Elise, I'm building a companion box that takes the input of 120V AC from the wall and 19V DC from my grounded AC adapter, runs them through a single 4pst switch, and outputs 120V AC for the Elise and 12.5V DC for the fdd20 tubes. It gives me a single on/off toggle on the front of a box that controls both.
> 
> So I'm trying to ensure that I don't exceed the current limitations of any of the components I'm using.


 

 if you want you can count 1A for better  match ask for fuse value to Lukasz.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> My son came over to see the Elise. He knows it will be his one day. LOL
> 
> He brought his Schiit Bifrost (first edition).. We hooked it up, and I must say, BUY a HEGEL. Wow, what a difference.
> A quality dac is just what the Elise feeds on. I can only imagine when I hook up my quality drivers. I don't wantto move my tungsol 5998s though.


 
  
 Spot on re treating the Elise (and oneself, lol!) to a really good DAC, aqsw...pays back with _interest_, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...just as with headphones...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Spot on re treating the Elise (and oneself, lol!) to a really good DAC, aqsw...pays back with _interest_, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I guess if that's the case, I'm subjecting my Elise to nigh on torture. I really need to get myself a better DAC. This Asus Xonar U7 isn't cutting it for me.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> I guess if that's the case, I'm subjecting my Elise to nigh on torture. I really need to get myself a better DAC. This Asus Xonar U7 isn't cutting it for me.


 

 I'm pretty happy with my Yulong DACs.  Of course I haven't tried it with the Elise yet, but it pairs really well with everything else I've used it with.
  
 I really want to try the Hegel now though.  There is a Hegel HD12 on Audiogon that I've been looking at......


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I'm pretty happy with my Yulong DACs.  Of course I haven't tried it with the Elise yet, but it pairs really well with everything else I've used it with.
> 
> I really want to try the Hegel now though.  There is a Hegel HD12 on Audiogon that I've been looking at......


 
 I've been looking at Yulongs DACs. Even made an offer to someone selling one used, but he didn't want to sell that low. If you decide to sell, let me know. I might be interested.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> I've been looking at Yulongs DACs. Even made an offer to someone selling one used, but he didn't want to sell that low. If you decide to sell, let me know. I might be interested.


 

 Which model were you looking at?


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Which model were you looking at?


 
 I believe it was the Sabre DA8, though many of them has my interest.


----------



## jerick70

I have a D200 for sale if you are interested.  It's brand new.  Take a look at my listing:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784823/yulong-d200-fs-or-trade-price-drop


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I have a D200 for sale if you are interested.  It's brand new.  Take a look at my listing:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784823/yulong-d200-fs-or-trade-price-drop


 
 Ah, cool! If you have it after New Years still, I'll probably contact you. Have to know if I get this wallet-thickener (job), and how expensive Christmas will be. 
  
 As a side note: Is there such a thing as too much Van Morrison? I'm up to 10 hours today, and I still want more.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Great idea UT, and a very interesting exercise - the sort perhaps not enough people do in head-fi tubeland?, IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Alright I have to try that piece if I can manage to find it. Woke up to find the 2031 combo on Elise so I started listening to it. With 5998, this is heavenly. I have reach journey's end on Elise tube rolling with 2 FDD20 or 2031 and 5998.
  
 Fivre 6N7G brown base and Joybringer still on the way but I doubt they will dislodge these. If they do, I'll be very surprised.
  


nephilim said:


> Still waiting for Elise and Mrs Xuling's adapters for external power supply... however, I just finished the Y-adapter to connect one or two tubes with the power supply.
> 
> For those who don't like the black/red wires on xulingmrs' adapters another alternative to CD marker would be heat shrink tubing.


 
 I saw my installer doing that on my car sound system but that means using a heat gun and getting those rubber tubes. I think Oskari's idea of black braiding sounds good but hey the red and black doesn't bother me now. Is it too glaring on the eyes for you guys in my photos? LOL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> Thanks UT. I'm very tempted but think I will pass on these. I already have the following power tubes:
> 
> 6520 PAIR NOS *NEW CHATHAM / TUNGSOL POWER TUBES = WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A 421-A
> 
> ...


 
 pctazhp, you've done well !!! You bought all the sensible, recommended power tubes. They all sound different and you're in for a treat. All quality purchase. Getting a pair of GE 6AS7GA is the best thing to do. Besides being cheap, it also sounded very good. You can use that power tube to burn in your drivers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What I did for burn in is to simply listen to music. I don't believe in special pink noise burn in. So the 1st 200 hours, was simply listening to music. I witness first hand how Elise evolved with the hours clocked on her. Everyone should try it for themselves. It's amazing. Elise has now blossomed into a full fledged, fully tune in tube amp now. She's perfect. I wouldn't change a thing.
  


perfectanalog said:


> While waiting for my Elise, I'm building a companion box that takes the input of 120V AC from the wall and 19V DC from my grounded AC adapter, runs them through a single 4pst switch, and outputs 120V AC for the Elise and 12.5V DC for the fdd20 tubes. It gives me a single on/off toggle on the front of a box that controls both.
> 
> So I'm trying to ensure that I don't exceed the current limitations of any of the components I'm using.


 
 Hi PA, I admire you. First you're handy. Second you are preparing for Elise arrival. That's the right thing to do. You'll be all prepared when Elise arrives and I like what you're doing with one switch. JV should be able to answer your questions. He's good with this kind of thing. Perhaps he has been busy.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Ah, cool! If you have it after New Years still, I'll probably contact you. Have to know if I get this wallet-thickener (job), and how expensive Christmas will be.
> 
> As a side note: Is there such a thing as too much Van Morrison? I'm up to 10 hours today, and I still want more.


 
  
 Excellent. Let me know. 
  
 Never to much Van Morrison!


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I have a D200 for sale if you are interested.  It's brand new.  Take a look at my listing:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784823/yulong-d200-fs-or-trade-price-drop


 

 That is an excellent DAC to consider at that price new. If I didn't already have a DAC I might have considered.
  
 Lol, everyone thinking of Hegel HD12. A very substantial DAC indeed. Really interesting to see Elise holding up in such company and with gorgeous TOTL headphones too. Guys stop for a minute and think..we're pairing Elise, a $649 tube amp with some of the best stuff and she's not out of place in such top notch head-fi gear.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> That is an excellent DAC to consider at that price new. If I didn't already have a DAC I might have considered.
> 
> Lol, everyone thinking of Hegel HD12. A very substantial DAC indeed. Really interesting to see Elise holding up in such company and with gorgeous TOTL headphones too. Guys stop for a minute and think..we're pairing Elise, a $649 tube amp with some of the best stuff and she's not out of place in such top notch head-fi gear.


 
  
 The Hegel on Audiogon is a steal too. 
  
 We are getting much much more with the Elise than the price would suggest.  @hypnos1 alluded to this when he opened his thread about the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> The Hegel on Audiogon is a steal too.
> 
> We are getting much much more with the Elise than the price would suggest.  @hypnos1 alluded to this when he opened his thread about the Elise.


 

 Just read 2 reviews on Hegel HD12. I was surprised that's it's $1400, instead of the $2000 price I thought it was. This DAC is all about good sound. It won't win awards with feature sets or the highest resolving 384khz. I think a well implemented DAC resolving at 192khz is all that you need. If you can't be satisfied with that, you have a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Best part of it is the balanced output. Elise MK2 with balanced input will be perfect.
  
 Jerick, I totally agree on Elise value. I have spent 10 thousand dollars on 2 car audio systems install but it doesn't compare with the sound from this modest head-fi setup that I have now. In fact I think trying to get good sound in a car is the most indulgent way to spend your money. You have to love your car a lot or you travel a lot on it as was in my case.  I think head-fi is the most sensible way to get great sound without costing an arm and a leg with products such as Elise. A truly remarkable tube amp for that price. Unbelievable.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Just read 2 reviews on Hegel HD12. I was surprised that's it's $1400, instead of the $2000 price I thought it was. This DAC is all about good sound. It won't win awards with feature sets or the highest resolving 384khz. I think a well implemented DAC resolving at 192khz is all that you need. If you can't be satisfied with that, you have a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, again our opinions turn out to be the exact same UT!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Wow, again our opinions turn out to be the exact same UT!


 

 Which part? LOL.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Which part? LOL.


 
 All of it. Car audio, 192 khz DAC, good value for head-fi, the love for Elise. I even thought the Hegel was about 2000 $, as you thought too.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> All of it. Car audio, 192 khz DAC, good value for head-fi, the love for Elise. I even thought the Hegel was about 2000 $, as you thought too.


 

 The more we talk, the more we bond. I'll have to come to Denmark to visit you. Bring my family along, that is if I can still persuade the grown up 'children' to come along. These days they do their own holidays. Incidentally my son isn't that much older than you.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> The more we talk, the more we bond. I'll have to come to Denmark to visit you. Bring my family along, that is if I can still persuade the grown up 'children' to come along. These days they do their own holidays. Incidentally my son isn't that much older than you.


 
 Deal! I'll give you a good tour of Denmark. A real Danish experience. Bring your tubes! I want to try those 6520s and 6A6s. And your horned 6N7G.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Deal! I'll give you a good tour of Denmark. A real Danish experience. Bring your tubes! I want to try those 6520s and 6A6s. And your horned 6N7G.


 

 Thanks, appreciate. Do come to Sydney. Come Spring or Autumn would be the best time. It's Summer now and really hot. Winter is really cold. I guess it's nothing for you since you must have colder weather in Denmark.
  
 I am anxious for your Fivre 6N7G brown base arrival. Do you prefer it over the 2031?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Thanks, appreciate. Do come to Sydney. Come Spring or Autumn would be the best time. It's Summer now and really hot. Winter is really cold. I guess it's nothing for you since you must have colder weather in Denmark.
> 
> I am anxious for your Fivre 6N7G brown base arrival. Do you prefer it over the 2031?


 
 We Danish Vikings do not freeze. I forgot that it's summer in Australia now. It seems so foreign to me. It's christmas time! How can it be summer. Well..
  
 About the Fivres, I prefer them above the 2031, yes. It's like a bit more forward version of the 2031, with a more coherent soundstage.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> We Danish Vikings do not freeze. I forgot that it's summer in Australia now. It seems so foreign to me. It's christmas time! How can it be summer. Well..
> 
> About the Fivres, I prefer them above the 2031, yes. It's like a bit more forward version of the 2031, with a more coherent soundstage.


 

 LOL we have a hot Christmas. Forget about sitting around the fireplace. You need to sit around the air-con hahaha.
  
 That's interesting about your tubes comparison. The Fivre does seem like 2 Philip Miniwatt FDD20 then. That's my thought. You should try 2 FDD20, then tell me what you think. Probably less forward that the Fivre as less gain but I think it hit the sweet spot for me.
  
 LOL Danish Vikings...do you have horns.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> LOL we have a hot Christmas. Forget about sitting around the fireplace. You need to sit around the air-con hahaha.
> 
> That's interesting about your tubes comparison. The Fivre does seem like 2 Philip Miniwatt FDD20 then. That's my thought. You should try 2 FDD20, then tell me what you think. Probably less forward that the Fivre as less gain but I think it hit the sweet spot for me.
> 
> LOL Danish Vikings...do you have horns.


 
 Why do you think I want those horned 6N7G? LOL. No, actually that is just a common misconception. The vikings didn't have horns on their helmets.
  
 I want to try 2x FDD20. I've ordered 4 bases. Trying to go for a H1-style adapter. Hopefully I can make it work. 
  
 Hot Christmas seems so wrong to me. It has to be snowing outside for a true Christmas!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Why do you think I want those horned 6N7G? LOL. No, actually that is just a common misconception. The vikings didn't have horns on their helmets.
> 
> I want to try 2x FDD20. I've ordered 4 sockets. Trying to go for a H1-style adapter. Hopefully I can make it work.
> 
> Hot Christmas seems so wrong to me. It has to be snowing outside for a true Christmas!


 

 Huh if it snow here at Christmas, it's must be the end of the world.
  
 I had a look at H1's photo. I really love his FDD20 adapter. Looks like the ECC31 adapter next to it. Now xulingmrs should have done it exactly like that for us instead of giving us big white marshmallows.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Huh if it snow here at Christmas, it's must be the end of the world.
> 
> I had a look at H1's photo. I really love his FDD20 adapter. Looks like the ECC31 adapter next to it. Now xulingmrs should have done it exactly like that for us instead of giving us big white marshmallows.


 
 I'm pretty sure it's non-removable. As in, the FDD20 is stuck to the adapter. She'd have to sell us the FDD20 too then.


----------



## nephilim

Gents, if you are interested in building your own adapters... I ordered several components but realized that they don't fit (at least if you want to be able to remove the tube). So I have no use for them anymore. I have some FDD20 sockets (the same xulingmrs uses, with the ears) and several types of 6sn7 sockets. Just PM me.


----------



## UntilThen

Sounds like you have one too many adapters. I have one too many tubes and I'm selling off some. Before I put it on eBay, I have one NOS ECC31 and a pair of Chatham JAN 6AS7G with about 120 hours of usage. If you're keen PM me. Also a pair of Philco 6N7G and National Union 6A6. A pair of GE 6AS7G, one tube with copper rod. A pair of RVC FDD20. All tested and hum free on Elise.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Just read 2 reviews on Hegel HD12. I was surprised that's it's $1400, instead of the $2000 price I thought it was. This DAC is all about good sound. It won't win awards with feature sets or the highest resolving 384khz. I think a well implemented DAC resolving at 192khz is all that you need. If you can't be satisfied with that, you have a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Hegel HD12 sounds by all intents and purposes like a winner of a DAC.  I've heard nothing but high praise for it.  It is a little light on the features though.  I have some DSD 128 files that would not work in native mode with it.  I think I would miss the 384khz of my Yulong DACs.  
  
 I asked about a balanced version of the Elise when I purchased mine.  Lukasz said they did have one right now but may later.  
  
 What car audio system did you put together for that price?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> What car audio system did you put together for that price?


 
 One of the install is documented here. You need to register and sign in to read.
 http://www.road.com.au/forums/topic/565133-my12-honda-accord-euro/?page=1
  
 I have on one Accord a pair of Dynaudio Esotec 242 GT splits and a Morel Ultimo 12" subwoofer, 2 Hertz amps, one HDP4 to power the splits (250x2) and one HDP1 to power the sub (1000w). An Audison Bit Ten sound processor. Special battery. All professionally installed including sound deadening on doors that feels heavier like Benz doors now.
  
 The other Accord has Hertz HSK 165 6.5" splits and Audison VOCE 12" sub, with Hertz amps and Audison Bit Ten. Professionally installed. This installer FHRX are the best in the business here. I have total respect for Marty and his works. His Nissan 200SX has the Focal Ultima 3 ways and Focal amps. That's what Raven has.
  
 $20,000 for this craziness. Focal Ultima 3 ways. Oh haha it's Marty selling this speakers set. Hey Marty if you're reading this, 'Hello, long time no see'.
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/161797634870?limghlpsr=true&hlpht=true&ul_noapp=true&hlpv=2&chn=ps&lpid=107&ops=true&viphx=1

  
  
 Both systems cost me 12 grand. They are still with me. My son drives one of the car now while I still have the black Euro. The 1st system on the day I collected it, I drove it to a local car meet and won 2 trophies .....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both cars were new when I had the systems installed. I have a lot of enjoyment with them. I still do. They still sound amazing. Plus I can tune all I want with the sound processor and equaliser. I can have a heavy bass or a more controlled bass. Any FR I can tailor it. I spend so much time fiddling whilst competing in those car audio meets. Can't believe I was so into that. Been there, done that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I bought a lot of audiophile quality CDs for those cars. I think my craze in car audio lasted less than 3 years. I hope head-fi will be longer... I have a feeling it will be till I leave this planet earth.
  
 The trophies hahaha


 The fire extinguisher which is a must in car audio competition and my lovely subwoofer in that big enclosure specially built to fit. That enclosure is 41 litres.
 This is a stealth install. There is a false flooring that conceal the gear and wiring. No drilling done.

  
 I love this tidiness. Look how neatly those cables are tied together. This is what I need for Elise and those adapters. !!!

  
 They make me Honda logo for the false flooring.

  

  
 The sound deadened door with Dynaudio Esotec.

  
 My battery with LED readout 

  
 This the Honda Accord Euro manual 6 speed. I was working in Canberra then so this is my 2nd home.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I have on one Accord a pair of Dynaudio Esotec 242 GT splits and a Morel Ultimo 12" subwoofer, 2 Hertz amps, one to power the splits and one to power the sub. An Audison Bit Ten sound processor. Special battery. All professionally installed including sound deadening on doors that feels heavier like Benz doors now.
> 
> The other Accord has Audison splits and Audison VOCE 12" sub, with Hertz amps and Audison Bit Ten. Professionally installed. This installer FHRX are the best in the business here. I have total respect for Marty and his works. His Nissan 200SX has the Focal Ultima 3 ways and Focal amps. That's what Raven has.
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice!  Congrats!  That is a very serious system.  41 liters on that sub WOW!  How deep can you go?
  
 Elise would look splendid nice and tidy like that.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Very nice!  Congrats!  That is a very serious system.  41 liters on that sub WOW!  How deep can you go?
> 
> Elise would look splendid nice and tidy like that.


 
 How deep? Very deep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know which is deeper, that sub or my Home Theatre Definitive Technology 12" sub. Whilst watching 'Saving Private Ryan', my wall clock came crashing down. That's how deep.
  
 My current headphone setup will never get to that level of bass. Nor for that matter any head-fi system but it's a totally different experience. So if I want to get a gut wrenching feel, I go and sit in the car and play some bass heavy track. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or spin it on the home system when the family is away and watch Finn dart for cover.
  
 The car system is still my pride and joy but I think to myself, what would 12 grand have gotten me in head-fi. I guess you cannot compare. I love going for a long drive interstate, put on some funky music.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> How deep? Very deep
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I Love good bass.  Have you tried a good pair of planars like the LCD-2?  You can feel the bass through your whole body.  I have a SVS SB-2000 on my desktop system that goes down to 19 Hz.  It rattles the whole house.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I Love good bass.  Have you tried a good pair of planars like the LCD-2?  You can feel the bass through your whole body.  I have a SVS SB-2000 on my desktop system that goes down to 19 Hz.  It rattles the whole house.


 

 No I have not tried LCD-2. Being a HD650 lover, the natural progression would have been to LCD-2 next but I have HE560 now. At this point I am not looking for earth shaking bass out of my headphone. I prefer something refined and controlled.
  
 Therefore my next headphone purchase will have to be a HD800 or T1. Audezes are good. It's a shame, there's so many good headphones out there. Decisions, decisions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Desktop system bass rattling the whole house? Won't your PC come crashing down?
  
 That SVS SB-2000 sub is almost the same size as my Definitive Technology 12" sub. I can only imagine the bass. These are serious subs.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> No I have not tried LCD-2. Being a HD650 lover, the natural progression would have been to LCD-2 next but I have HE560 now. At this point I am not looking for earth shaking bass out of my headphone. I prefer something refined and controlled.
> 
> Therefore my next headphone purchase will have to be a HD800 or T1. Audezes are good. It's a shame, there's so many good headphones out there. Decisions, decisions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The LCD-2s bass is very controlled.  You just feel it in your body when those low hits happen.  With the 106 mm transducers they go down to 5 Hz.  They are a really exceptional headphone, even when you don't care for a lot of bass.  They are very dynamic and articulate.   
  
 It's a tough decision.  I was going to purchase the LCD-3 but liked the LCD-2 better when I went for my audition at my local Audeze dealer. I ended up saving a lot of money too. 
  
 LOL... No  Just rattles the house.  Again it is controlled, but you fell it when it hits.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I must audition the LCD2.2 then. Don't you feel it's heavy on your head? That is like an oversize helmet !!!
 Lol I look at your avatar and I can picture the LCD2.2 on your head.
  
 This is my Definitive Technology 12". I sit on it like a strong chair.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Ok I must audition the LCD2.2 then. Don't you feel it's heavy on your head? That is like an oversize helmet !!!
> Lol I look at your avatar and I can picture the LCD2.2 on your head.
> 
> This is my Definitive Technology 12". I sit on it like a strong chair.




That's the downfall of the LCDs. There is a fix though. I put a suspension strap on my 2s and I can wear them all day now. They still are heavier than a lot of other headphones. I highly recommend them.

I would try all of the LCD line when you go audition. 

Now that is a mammoth sub. Here's my SVS.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes with a good sub, you will feel it, not so much hear it. I watch a lot of high impact movies on the home theatre system. This was since 1998. Every Sat night is movie night with popcorns. The children then love it. Watch Gladiator, James Bond, Saving Private Ryan, etc.
  
 Strangely I prefer a good stereo system. The Home Theatre is more to keep the family happy. I was once in Lens Wallis and I heard a B&W 805 on gorgeous stands with Musical Fidelity CD player and amplifier. Simple looking but the sound is so sweet and crystal clear. That impression never left me.
  
 These beauties.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright back to reality and I must say these tubes with Elise and HE560 can rock my boat more than the car or home system anytime. This is intimacy and details. Instruments separation and pinpoint imaging. This is music as I like it.
  
 Philips Miniwatts FDD20 with Tung Sol 5998


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have been immersed in pure analog...the turntable. My favorite tube compliment for analog is the 5998/ECC31

The bass boost from ECC31 and 5998 is just what the doctor ordered for vinyl listening. 

The velvety-smooth midrange and and rolled off highs, fit the medium.....perfectly.

Quite remarkable reproduction, in fact. LP's on the ECM and GRP labels are especially impressive ,as great care was taken with their mastering and pressing...

Also have a few 1/2 speed mastered LP's, and they sound tremendously better, than the run of the mill CD's of the same material. 

Vinyl On, Peoples!!


----------



## UntilThen

ECC31/5998 was yesterday's news. Today is FDD20/5998 LOL.
  
 Truth is these are all amazing tubes for me:-
  
 2 FDD20 / TS 5998
 2031 / Chatham 6520
 2 ECC31 / 5998
 Mazda 6N7G / 5998
 Vsseaux 6A6 / 5998
 Fivre 6A6 / 5998
 Fivre 6N7G / 5998
 NU 6A6 / 5998
  
 Substitute 5998 for Chatham 6520 or Chatham 6AS7G or even GE 6AS7GA and it's still amazing.
  
 Enjoy everyone. I have never heard music sound so good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P/S JV I'll trade my subwoofer for your turntable and 10 LPs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This sub was $1200 back in 1998. It's appreciated now lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Enjoy everyone. I have never heard music sound so good.
> 
> P/S JV I'll trade my subwoofer for your turntable and 10 LPs.    This sub was $1200 back in 1998. It's appreciated now lol.




Hello UT, I can absolutely guarantee that there is no chance of that trade 

I have been Subwoofer Free for a lot of years. I have recently made some changes in the Analog Den and put my DIY towers down there. Dual 10" woofers per side, in a sealed box. Delivers the kind of bass, I like: generous, in amount but articulated, and tight.


----------



## tjw321

I picked up some cheap Beyer 250 Ohm DT990s in Amazon's Cyber Monday sale. For the money (< $100!), they are very good, and there is (for me) some good synergy with the Elise. For accuracy, they are behind my HD600s and K702s (which cost 3x as much!) but i had my best listening session ever with my Elise earlier (2xECC31, 2xMullard 6020).
  
 Started off with some Hans Zimmer for the lush immersion.
 Went to some Harry Connick Jr. I'm not sure why (but I'm guessing it's because Hans is next to Harry on my directory listing and I hadn't played it for a long time). The brass interjections have never been so percussive!
 Then some Julie London for, well, Julie London.... Goose bumps!
 All rounded off with a bit of Sam Cooke. The intro to "Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen" is a real test of bass clarity and the Elise/DT990s passed with flying colours.
 There were a few meanderings in between, but these were the highlights which stuck in my mind.
  
 These are my first Beyers and I'm very pleased with them. They are very, very comfortable and fit me much better than any of my other headphones (I have a very small head!). I'm still saving up for the T1s, but that'll take a bit longer, and I won't be buying them on a whim just because they are in an Amazon lightning sale (well, I might...).


----------



## UntilThen

tj you're making me miss my dt880 now. Glad to see you have a real bargain there. Biggest change in sound is a new headphone.

I love Sam Cooke and I moan those musical genius who are gone too soon. So many songs credited to him and resung by other artists.


----------



## JazzVinyl

tjw321 said:


> I picked up some cheap Beyer 250 Ohm DT990s in Amazon's Cyber Monday sale. For the money (< $100!), they are very good, and there is (for me) some good synergy with the Elise. For accuracy, they are behind my HD600s and K702s (which cost 3x as much!) but i had my best listening session ever with my Elise earlier (2xECC31, 2xMullard 6020).
> 
> Started off with some Hans Zimmer for the lush immersion.
> Went to some Harry Connick Jr. I'm not sure why (but I'm guessing it's because Hans is next to Harry on my directory listing and I hadn't played it for a long time). The brass interjections have never been so percussive!
> ...




Hello tjw...

Very good man!! What a fantastically low low price you paid!!

I have the 600 ohm Beyer DT-990's and I absolutely swear by mine.

Totally agree that they are not the most "accurate" phones, but have a gigantic "fun" factor. 

I like mine way better than my Sennheiser 580's - which are good cans but somewhat "boring" next to the DT-990's. 

Beyers also win hands down for comfort. A big factor in long enjoyment (listening) sessions. 

Cheers!!!


----------



## UntilThen

This is the bird's eye view of Elise and I just received those green connectors. Really neat now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This is the bird's eye view of Elise and I just received those green connectors. Really neat now.




Looking good, UT!!

I am listening to the soundtrack for the movie "Seven Years In Tibet".... Via 2x FDD20/5998...

WOW!!!! A fantastic journey!

Is all I can say!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I am listening to the soundtrack for the movie "Seven Years In Tibet".... Via 2x FDD20/5998...
> 
> WOW!!!! A fantastic journey!
> 
> Is all I can say!!


 
 I feel your elation as I listen to 'Seven Years In Tibet' by Oliver Shanti via a set of cheap tubes, National Union 6A6 (US$30) and GE 6AS7G (US$30).
  
 Imo you don't need better tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 In other news, *Tidal to launch hi-res audio streaming in 2016 - **Master Quality Authenticated* aka MQA
 Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/news/tidal-to-launch-hi-res-audio-streaming-in-2016#lQhw3aUEMJkkMtiG.99
  
 Tidal now at 16/44.1 sounded even better than Audirvana Plus with my iTunes Apple Lossless files at 192khz. Not sure how that is possible but it sounded better to me.


----------



## Suuup

tjw321 said:


> I picked up some cheap Beyer 250 Ohm DT990s in Amazon's Cyber Monday sale. For the money (< $100!), they are very good, and there is (for me) some good synergy with the Elise. For accuracy, they are behind my HD600s and K702s (which cost 3x as much!) but i had my best listening session ever with my Elise earlier (2xECC31, 2xMullard 6020).
> 
> Started off with some Hans Zimmer for the lush immersion.
> Went to some Harry Connick Jr. I'm not sure why (but I'm guessing it's because Hans is next to Harry on my directory listing and I hadn't played it for a long time). The brass interjections have never been so percussive!
> ...


 
 We're walking down the same road. I got the 990's too. I absolutely loved them (still do). Now I have a pair of T1's. Absolutely perfect synergy with the Elise. Oh, and a pair of 1770's is incoming as well. Got them for 400 $, because Amazon made a mistake. 
  
  


untilthen said:


> I feel your elation as I listen to 'Seven Years In Tibet' by Oliver Shanti via a set of cheap tubes, National Union 6A6 (US$30) and GE 6AS7G (US$30).
> 
> Imo you don't need better tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 What is this? Should I get excited about it? I use Tidal a lot.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> What is this? Should I get excited about it? I use Tidal a lot.


 
 Yes you should be feeling extremely excited. Tidal in time will convert their CD quality (16/44.1khz) to *high resolution streaming* (??? kHz) I expect this to be more than 44.1 and they are charging the same price as Tidal HiFi. Partnership with Meridian.
  
 It will sound better than any other formats including vinyl. I know I know a lot of rocks will be thrown at me but digital has come of age. Look at Pono and HDTracks. Digital are no longer what it was at the beginning. Now the 0s and 1s are really dancing.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes you should be feeling extremely excited. Tidal in time will convert their CD quality (16/44.1khz) to *high resolution streaming* (??? kHz) I expect this to be more than 44.1 and they are charging the same price as Tidal HiFi. Partnership with Meridian.


 
 Well THAT is absolutely WONDERFUL.


----------



## UntilThen

Back to 2 FDD20 and 5998. Wondering why I need to change to other tubes.
  
 This is täydellisyys. 





  Oskari should know this.


----------



## UntilThen

I was going to play you Sam Cooke 'Bring It Home To Me' but this caught my eye lol. She's call Panda like my avatar and boy oh boy can she sing. I love this song.....so much. So much feelings in it.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright the real thing...I love Sam Cooke singing this song. So many artists have sung it after him. John Lennon, BB King, Tom Jones, Van Morrison, Percy Sledge, Commitments, etc but Sam the originator sang it the best. Hang on...I'm in a reflective mood.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok sold a pair of FDD20 and Chatham 6AS7G so far. Faster than I thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was going to sell my C3G plus adapters until I put it on to listen with 5998 again and omg .... C3G and 5998 sounds so good. I just can't let this go. There will never be such adapters again. This has to stay.
  
 These are available if anyone's interested. All sold at cost. They go at the price I paid for or less. Getting ready for my TOTL headphone purchase. 
 Please PM me. No discussion here on the forum. Thanks.
  
 1 ECC31 NOS
 2 RVC FDD20
 2 GE 6AS7G
 2 Philco 6N7G
 2 National Union 6A6
 2 Tung Sol 7236 (IBM rebrand) - similar to 5998; slight difference
 2 RCA 6N7GT
 2 RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass vt231
 2 Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top
 1 Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears
 1 Sylvania 6SN7WGT Gold brand
 1 HP 6080
 1 Dumont 6080 WA


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ok sold a pair of FDD20 and Chatham 6AS7G so far. Faster than I thought.
> 
> These are available if anyone's interested. All sold at cost. They go at the price I paid for or less. Getting ready for my TOTL headphone purchase.
> Please PM me. No discussion here on the forum. Thanks.




What 'phones are on your radar?

.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> What 'phones are on your radar?
> 
> .


 

 I was pretty sure it's HD800 until Jerick makes me think about LCD2.2. Was thinking about T1 too but I just read mixed reviews on Amazon regarding the Gen 2.
  
 Comfort is important for me and I think there's no HP more comfortable than the HD800. It has to be special too. Something about it I haven't yet experience with my HD650 or HE560. I think HD800 soundstage and revealing qualities will be special. I read so much about it being not as musical as other HP though. Even if I audition it at the shop for 2 hours, I don't think that will tell me enough.
  
 One thing that is evident for me though. I'm loving the HE560 more than HD650 now because I hear more in the music. HD650 has more warm and sound great in the mids. Nice bass even though it's not as deep but HE560 just has the sparkle and depth and clarity.
  
 So comparing HD800 with LCD2.2 might be similar lol. I know that's presumptuous not having heard them.
  
 What do you think? Or what would be your choice if you were buying a TOTL headphone.
  
 I was thinking that if a bright headphone like HE560 can sound warm and lush with good bass on Elise, then perhaps HD800 might do too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  So if I can get HD800 to sound revealing with great soundstage, at the same time feel warm and lush and have impactful bass then I'm sold.
  
 I really believe tubes can influence sound a lot now. There's so much tuning potential in tubes.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I was pretty sure it's HD800 until Jerick makes me think about LCD2.2. Was thinking about T1 too but I just read mixed reviews on Amazon regarding the Gen 2.
> 
> Comfort is important for me and I think there's no HP more comfortable than the HD800. It has to be special too. Something about it I haven't yet experience with my HD650 or HE560. I think HD800 soundstage and revealing qualities will be special. I read so much about it being not as musical as other HP though. Even if I audition it at the shop for 2 hours, I don't think that will tell me enough.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I guess you know where my vote is.... Really though, the T1's are simply astonishing, _especially_ with the Elise. T1's are made for a tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Well, I guess you know where my vote is.... Really though, the T1's are simply astonishing, _especially_ with the Elise. T1's are made for a tube amp.


 

 I hear different things about the Gen 2 though. You're referring to the original T1 right? Does the treble not give you headache or heartache lol? Or they sound ok with your gorgeous tubes. What about mids and bass. You getting meat to the music or you're looking at a skinny model on the walkway? Tell me what you hear on the T1 with those Fivre 6N7G brown base with 5998.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I hear different things about the Gen 2 though. You're referring to the original T1 right? Does the treble not give you headache or heartache lol? Or they sound ok with your gorgeous tubes. What about mids and bass. You getting meat to the music or you're looking at a skinny model on the walkway? Tell me what you hear on the T1 with those Fivre 6N7G brown base with 5998.


 
 Okay, before I got the Elise, I hated my T1's. The shrill treble was killing me. I had so many songs I liked, which I just couldn't listen to, due to the piercing treble. Cue the Elise. This is *not a problem at all *anymore.
  
 When I wrote my impressions on a Danish site for head-fi, I made a paragraph called "Taming the Wild Stallion". That is what the T1's are to me. They have all the positive qualities a good headphone should have, but this ear piercing treble is killing people. This is not the case at all with the Elise.
  
 I sought out poor recordings, which were known for having a shrill treble. Tried them out with and without the Elise. I had no problems when using Elise. It is truly a remarkable amp. 
  
 Skinny? Meaty? The sound is neither skinny, nor meaty. The sound has the *perfect balance* of the two. 
  
 I have never heard the T1 gen 2, but I would rather have gen 1., as it has the perfect sound signature, when paired with the Elise. 
  
  
 Don't believe me? Go ask H1. He'll probably say pretty much the same thing.


----------



## UntilThen

So what happen to the shrill treble? Did it turn into sweet smooth treble or did it just got chop off? Gut wrenching bass or just a tad tad in your chest? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have some idea although people say the dt880 is nowhere like the T1. I spend 2 months with the dt880 and it did sound lovely on the Darkvoice 336se. I didn't have such fanciful tubes then.
  
 So now it's a 3 way race of HD800, T1 and LCD2.2. They are still selling the original T1 on Amazon for a discount which is a big incentive. Dang AUD$999 at www.minidisc.com.au  and the Gen 2 is AUD$1499 !!!  $500 more !!!


----------



## aqsw

Oh No, The deal on my Hegel HD11 fell through. Sellers remorse. I don't blame him. So, looking for a dac now. Don't want to sell my HA1 now until I have a dac as I don't want to go without a system in my office for any amount of time.
  
 I am done with purchasing tubes for awhile. Just bought two more fdd20s off UT. Now have 4 fdd20s, 4 Mazdas, 1 ECC31 for quality drivers. 5998s, 6080s for power.
 The wallet is CLOSED.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> So what happen to the shrill treble? Did it turn into sweet smooth treble or did it just got chop off? Gut wrenching bass or just a tad tad in your chest?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 As Van Morrison would put it, the treble is sweeter than "Tupelo Honey". No chopping it off. One of the good things about the T1's is that they're not expensive. You can get some crazy deals out there. Bought mine for $750 USD, *in Denmark*. We have outrageously expensive prices here, but I was able to get those for cheap anyways.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Oh No, The deal on my Hegel HD11 fell through. Sellers remorse. I don't blame him. So, looking for a dac now. Don't want to sell my HA1 now until I have a dac as I don't want to go without a system in my office for any amount of time.
> 
> I am done with purchasing tubes for awhile. Just bought two more fdd20s off UT. Now have 4 fdd20s, 4 Mazdas, 1 ECC31 for quality drivers. 5998s, 6080s for power.
> The wallet is CLOSED.


 

 You sure you don't want another ECC31? lol. You need to sample 2 ECC31 lol.
  
 I think you're set for tubes. Should be very nice with Elise now.
  
 You can buy Jerick's Yulong DAC.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> Oh No, The deal on my Hegel HD11 fell through. Sellers remorse. I don't blame him. So, looking for a dac now. Don't want to sell my HA1 now until I have a dac as I don't want to go without a system in my office for any amount of time.
> 
> I am done with purchasing tubes for awhile. Just bought two more fdd20s off UT. Now have 4 fdd20s, 4 Mazdas, 1 ECC31 for quality drivers. 5998s, 6080s for power.
> The wallet is CLOSED.




I'm not sure if you are taking recommendation for a new DAC. I really like my Yulong DA8 and DA8II. They are phenomenal DACs. The Yulong D200 is supposed to be really close the the DA8. If your interested i have a brand new D200 for sale in the for sale forums here.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> As Van Morrison would put it, the treble is sweeter than "Tupelo Honey". No chopping it off. One of the good things about the T1's is that they're not expensive. You can get some crazy deals out there. Bought mine for $750 USD, *in Denmark*. We have outrageously expensive prices here, but I was able to get those for cheap anyways.


 

 I know the T1 is very tempting now at AUD$999 compared to AUD$1249 for a HE560 and AUD$1349 for HD800 and AUD$1499 for a T1 G2.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I know the T1 is very tempting now at AUD$999 compared to AUD$1249 for a HE560 and AUD$1349 for HD800 and AUD$1499 for a T1 G2.


 
 Can't you just return them if you don't like them? In Denmark we can return anything bought on the internet within 14 days and get a full refund. Don't you have something like that in Australia?
  
 If I get a NAD 1050 and you get a pair of T1's, we have the exact same setup UT.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I feel your elation as I listen to 'Seven Years In Tibet' by Oliver Shanti via a set of cheap tubes, National Union 6A6 (US$30) and GE 6AS7G (US$30).
> 
> Imo you don't need better tubes.
> 
> ...




Question about how Tidal will pull this off.

The reason I ask is...you can't just rip a 16/44.1 encoded CD "thicker" and get better sound. 

In order to "really produce" hi-rez , you have to go all the way back to the source media of the recording, and reprocess from there, to get these new fanciful hi-rez rates.

Since we know Tidal pays artists poorly (hence the ECM label will not do business with them at all) then how will Tidal pay to have the ginormous back catalog that has been released @ 16/44.1 reprocessed, to be true hi-rez?

Have you seen the hi-rez sites and the LARGE AMOUNT money they want for a single album? Almost $50.00 USD per title?

It seems to me that Tidal is hook-winking all and wants to be "thought of" as being hip and hi-rez, but unless they have a heck of a lot more dough than SONY, it very unlikely that tens of thousands of CD releases will happily and magically be re-processed via the source media, so that Tidal can distribute it to the globe and completely destroy the possibility of recouping the costs to reprocess said source media, by charging almost $50.00 per album?

Do you see the problem here?

WAY WAY WAY Too good, to be true.


:rolleyes:


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Question about how Tidal will pull this off.
> 
> The reason I ask is...you can't just rip a 16/44.1 encoded CD "thicker" and get better sound.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm thinking the same thing JV. I don't see how this is possible at all. Let's see what the future will bring, we might get lucky.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Can't you just return them if you don't like them? In Denmark we can return anything bought on the internet within 14 days and get a full refund. Don't you have something like that in Australia?
> 
> If I get a NAD 1050 and you get a pair of T1's, we have the exact same setup UT.


 

 LOL exact same setup. We even have the same Tidal. Probably same tubes.
  
 No here you cannot take home try it and return. It's not like Amazon or your Denmark.


----------



## jerick70

I just received an email from Lukasz.  My Elise will be shipped tomorrow.  Yeah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I hope it gets here before Christmas.  It will be the best Christmas present I've received!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> LOL exact same setup. We even have the same Tidal. Probably same tubes.
> 
> No here you cannot take home try it and return. It's not like Amazon or your Denmark.


 
 I actually thought this was the case in most countries. I guess I'm taking so many things for granted here. Hmm.


jerick70 said:


> I just received an email from Lukasz.  My Elise will be shipped tomorrow.  Yeah
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations! Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm thinking the same thing JV. I don't see how this is possible at all. Let's see what the future will bring, we might get lucky.


 

 You have to read the WhatHiFi column. Meridian is using MQA a kind of encoding to make hi res file smaller for loading and playback smoothly. I very much doubt they will do a 'transfer' of their 16/44.1 to hi res which is not possible. How they do it I don't know. Possible to go back to true source. I think the future is in music streaming and more companies should be providing hi res streaming. I'll pay my $20 a month for it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You have to read the WhatHiFi column. Meridian is using MQA a kind of encoding to make hi res file smaller for loading and playback smoothly. I very much doubt they will do a 'transfer' of their 16/44.1 to hi res which is not possible. How they do it I don't know. Possible to go back to true source. I think the future is in music streaming and more companies should be providing hi res streaming. I'll pay my $20 a month for it.


 
 How much do you pay for Tidal right now?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I just received an email from Lukasz.  My Elise will be shipped tomorrow.  Yeah
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats! Looks like your LCD2.2 will get more pounding. Now make sure you're ready tube wise.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> How much do you pay for Tidal right now?


 

 AUD$24 a month


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> AUD$24 a month


 
 Oh wow, I pay the equivalent of 40 AUD a month.. That's the downside of Denmark I suppose.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Oh wow, I pay the equivalent of 40 AUD a month.. That's the downside of Denmark I suppose.


 

 $40 a month?!!! that's highway robbery. You need to move to Australia.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Congratulations! Looking forward to your impressions!


 
  
 Thanks Sup.  I'll post as soon as I get some good listening time in.  There was a recent review of the Elise in the Headgear review section.  It said that the Elise drove the HE-6 like a dream.  This is very good news for my Audezes.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Congrats! Looks like your LCD2.2 will get more pounding. Now make sure you're ready tube wise.


 
  
 I have some pretty good tubes already.  I have a pair of the Chatham Copper Rod 6AS7Gs and the Phillips Miniwatt FDD20.  I just need to get adaptors and a power supply for the FDD20.  Are these adaptors any good?   http://is.gd/DXOGsE


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I have some pretty good tubes already.  I have a pair of the Chatham Copper Rod 6AS7Gs and the Phillips Miniwatt FDD20.  I just need to get adaptors for the FDD20.  Are these adaptors any good?   http://is.gd/DXOGsE


 
 Yep, they're the right ones. JV made them happen.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Yep, they're the right ones. JV made them happen.


 

 Awesome.  What power supply do you guys recommend?  I want something that looks good.  Do you think a linear power supply would work?


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Awesome.  What power supply do you guys recommend?  I want something that looks good.  Do you think a linear power supply would work?


 
 Doesn't really matter that much, as it is only for the heating. I'm using an old laptop power supply. Get something about 12-13V and >1A, and you should be good.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> $40 a month?!!! that's highway robbery. You need to move to Australia.


 

That's only $5.81 US Dollars.  That's pretty good.  I pay $19.99 USD for Tidal a month.
  
 ****Never mind I read that wrong.  It's AUD not Krones.  That is a lot!*****


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> That's only $5.81 US Dollars.  That's pretty good.  I pay $19.99 USD for Tidal a month.


 
 What? I pay 200 DKK, which is 40 AUD and 29 USD.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> What? I pay 200 DKK, which is 40 AUD and 29 USD.


 
 Never mind I read that wrong.  It's AUD not Krones.  That is a lot!


----------



## Suuup

So a lot of my friends doesn't believe in tubes. It got me thinking, why exactly is tubes better than transistors? This is why http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> So a lot of my friends doesn't believe in tubes. It got me thinking, why exactly is tubes better than transistors? This is why http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm


 

 Excellent link.  I'm going to have to go over it in detail after work.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Okay, before I got the Elise, I hated my T1's. The shrill treble was killing me. I had so many songs I liked, which I just couldn't listen to, due to the piercing treble. Cue the Elise. This is *not a problem at all *anymore.
> 
> When I wrote my impressions on a Danish site for head-fi, I made a paragraph called "Taming the Wild Stallion". That is what the T1's are to me. They have all the positive qualities a good headphone should have, but this ear piercing treble is killing people. This is not the case at all with the Elise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...are you listening? - I would say *exactly* the same thing, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially as like us, you seem to like detailed, _solid_ bass as opposed to something that approaches 'boom' (not that I'm accusing the Audezes!). I do have to admit, however, that on a brief listen at our Cambridge (UK) meet earlier this year, I personally - along with several others - preferred the T1s (by quite a margin, lol!). Now, if only I could have heard the XCs in the Elise, I'm sure it would have been a different story...even though they're _closed_ cans!!...(through Acapella's Questyle Current Mode Amp, they were streets ahead of the 2s...but oh-so-_*heavy!!!*_




  


untilthen said:


> So what happen to the shrill treble? Did it turn into sweet smooth treble or did it just got chop off? Gut wrenching bass or just a tad tad in your chest?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As above, UT...the originals were just made for the Elise - no need *whatsoever* to spend all that extra on gen 2, I would imagine IMHO...
  
 Changing topic, the EL3N you so kindly sent me - along with my other Philips "Red" series tube - arrived today...and all I can say is...*WOW!!* Far more gorgeous in the flesh even than in the photos, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This often bodes well for performance also - but is never _guaranteed_, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Now more than ever, I am praying to _all_ the Gods that they will work...and if not singly, I'm sure I wouldn't take much persuading to try TWO per driver...(despite my better half trying to persuade the _opposite_, no doubt!!)....:
  

  

  
 And boy, have I been lucky (again!)...the one on the left was listed as "used", but just like my "used" etched FDD20s, was still in original brown cardboard and paper wrapping, and obviously never been removed from it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And so UT, along with yours, I now have TWO NOS tubes...thanks a million, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Wish me luck in getting them to work!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  


jerick70 said:


> I just received an email from Lukasz.  My Elise will be shipped tomorrow.  Yeah
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wonderful news j70...I can vouch for it being the *best ever*, lol!!...I wish her a safe and speedy journey into your eager arms!...


----------



## Suuup

Elise and Van Morrison is *SO ADDICTIVE. *I think I have to go see a doctor soon, this is getting out of hand.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Elise and Van Morrison is *SO ADDICTIVE. I think I have to go see a doctor soon*, this is getting out of hand.


 
  
 Already done that, S....diagnosis : _*total*_ addiction....prognosis : *no hope, lol!!*...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...So, like the rest of us poor sinners, I'm afraid you'll just have to live with it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...(beats most other addictions though!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## aqsw

Vans the Man.
  
 Another album I really like is Jackson Browne (Standing in the Breach).
 Cat Stevens is real good too!!


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> Vans the Man.
> 
> Another album I really like is Jackson Browne (Standing in the Breach).
> Cat Stevens is real good too!!


 
 More stuff for my list! Keep them coming.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Vans the Man.
> Another album I really like is Jackson Browne (Standing in the Breach).
> Cat Stevens is real good too!!




Love Jackson Brown and Cat Stevens...

Listened to Cat Stevens: "Buddha and the Chocolate Box" LP the other night...quite good!


----------



## aqsw

The second song "Yeah Yeah" on the Jackson Browne album is so corny, but I just love it.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Awesome.  What power supply do you guys recommend?  I want something that looks good.  Do you think a linear power supply would work?


 

 Jerick, you have a choice here:-
  
 Good and not too expensive AUD$20 - 12V 6A AC adapter. Make sure you get 120V.

  
 Or a lovely unit that has pride of place next to the fireplace AUD$100


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...are you listening? - I would say *exactly* the same thing, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, I hear you on the T1. I'm so tempted now seeing it's discounted to AUD$999...that's US$725.
  
 WOW, I really like the looks of those gorgeous tubes and they do look co-ordinated and symmetrical LOL. H1, I'm going to watch this space carefully and cheer you on all the way. Such lovely tubes need to work. Btw I know of a source that sells a NOS pair for 33 euros. Incredible. I'm surprised they get to you so quickly. It was shipped out from *Granada, Andalucía, Spain.*
  
*Best wishes...mon ami *


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Love Jackson Brown and Cat Stevens...
> 
> Listened to Cat Stevens: "Buddha and the Chocolate Box" LP the other night...quite good!


 

 I've to listen to these after my shower and breakfast. It's another day of music after I send off the tubes to those who purchased from me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's good to read others posts for a chance. I got up to 17 new posts. Well done guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 And to stick to my original commitment, new headphone will be next April for my birthday. It can wait. HE560 is sounding so good already. I don't know if another headphone will be an improvement.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Who has an audio-gd DAC in here? 

Interested in hearing about the NFB-11


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Who has an audio-gd DAC in here?
> 
> Interested in hearing about the NFB-11


 

 Let's just say if you get one, you won't need to upgrade your DAC again. I was searching for reviews on Audio Gd NFB-11 and I found an impression thread here started by none other than my old buddy @HeatFan12 .  HeatFan where are you??? 
  
 Anyway here's the thread and very favourable impressions from everyone for sure. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/624517/audio-gd-nfb-11-32-nfb-11-2014-delivery-impression-thread
  
 LOL someone ask WHY is the power switch on the back instead of the front. I was thinking that about Elise initially but now I definitely want it behind.


----------



## UntilThen

Sade is made for tube amp.  Philips Miniwatt FDD20 with Tung Sol 7236 and it's so smooth, creamy, cappuccino with croissants. 
  
 Cheers to Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

UT:  I just won giannonisurplus' most recent auction for a pair of his Philips Miniwatt FDD20s. I feel like my Elise tube collection is pretty complete, but I still don't have a pair of 5998s.. Seems like those are now impossible to find and I entered the hunt a little too late.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  I just won giannonisurplus' most recent auction for a pair of his Philips Miniwatt FDD20s. I feel like my Elise tube collection is pretty complete, but I still don't have a pair of 5998s.. Seems like those are now impossible to find and I entered the hunt a little too late.


 

 Woohoo....aren't you lucky and I bet you paid less than me because Raven was bidding with me LOL.
  
 Ok. I might have the answer to your prayers for 5998. What I have here is a pair of Tung Sol 7236. If you look at Tubemaze http://www.tubemaze.info/tung-sol-7236/ you'll get a good review of it other than mine. I don't really have to sell this but I have heaps of power tubes and this doesn't get much playtime. However spinning it now with 2 FDD20, I find it a very good alternative to 5998 at less than half the price. So think about it. PM me if you want it.
  
 And this is how it looks...


----------



## aqsw

I would never use the options on the yulong dac. I would rather pay for a better implementation. I talked to my guy and can get another hd12 . I know what I'm getting this way. Thanks anyways. .And it matches perfectly.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Let's just say if you get one, you won't need to upgrade your DAC again. I was searching for reviews on Audio Gd NFB-11 and I found an impression thread here started by none other than my old buddy @HeatFan12
> .  HeatFan where are you???
> 
> Anyway here's the thread and very favourable impressions from everyone for sure.
> ...




Yes, I saw the thread and you friend HeatFan in there...

Just wondered if anyone in here had one. As an old analog guy...when i spin vinyl, there ain't no stinkin' DAC needed!

So I wonder if I would appreciate it as much as you might, if you were completely computerized. I have no computer anywhere near Elise and would not look forward to having one near (because I work with them all day, love going home and ignoring the dang things)


----------



## aqsw

Audio gds. Just WAY Too BIG. And I think the Hegel sounds better. Imo


----------



## aqsw

No computer near mine either.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Audio gds. Just WAY Too BIG. And I think the Hegel sounds better. Imo




Not everyone can afford a Hegel, aqsw...consider yourself lucky, if you have that much expendable cash


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, I saw the thread and you friend HeatFan in there...
> 
> Just wondered if anyone in here had one. As an old analog guy...when i spin vinyl, there ain't no stinkin' DAC needed!
> 
> So I wonder if I would appreciate it as much as you might, if you were completely computerized. I have no computer anywhere near Elise and would not look forward to having one near (because I work with them all day, love going home and ignoring the dang things)


 

 Trust me, with a DAC your vinyl will sound more vinyl and those pops and crackles will become music instead.


----------



## aqsw

I run mine tidal. Good enough for my 62 year old ears after many motorcycles and handguns.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Trust me, with a DAC your vinyl will sound more vinyl and those pops and crackles will become music instead.




No no no no no! There is NO DAC involved in a turntable! The music is not digitally encoded! It's analog as it emerges from the cartridge and is simply amplified...there is absolutely zero *C*onversion of *D*igital to *A*nalog 

(*DAC*) = *D*igital to *A*nalog *C*onversion


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Woohoo....aren't you lucky and I bet you paid less than me because Raven was bidding with me LOL.
> 
> Ok. I might have the answer to your prayers for 5998. What I have here is a pair of Tung Sol 7236. If you look at Tubemaze http://www.tubemaze.info/tung-sol-7236/ you'll get a good review of it other than mine. I don't really have to sell this but I have heaps of power tubes and this doesn't get much playtime. However spinning it now with 2 FDD20, I find it a very good alternative to 5998 at less than half the price. So think about it. PM me if you want it.
> 
> And this is how it looks...


 
  Just sent PM ))


----------



## aqsw

My guy likes me. I pay nowhere close to retail on the Hegel.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> No no no no no! There is NO DAC involved in a turntable! The music is not digitally encoded! It's analog as it emerges from the cartridge and is simply amplified...there is absolutely zero *C*onversion of *D*igital to *A*nalog
> 
> (*DAC*) = *D*igital to *A*nalog *C*onversion


 

 Oh ok LOL. Aren't you lucky then. BUT you NOW need to convert those analogue signals to digital for safekeeping LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> My guy likes me. I pay nowhere close to retail on the Hegel.


 

 Aqsw, if you get tired of your Hegel and decide to sell it for $500, let me know.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I run mine tidal. Good enough for my 62 year old ears after many motorcycles and handguns.


 

 Tidal is my friend now. Best streaming service atm. When I go back to Spotify premium it's like going from real Coca Cola to Diet Coke.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Oh ok LOL. Aren't you lucky then. BUT you NOW need to convert those analogue signals to digital for safekeeping LOL.




HA!

No I don't! I have started that several times and realized it's too time consuming and does not sound as good.

I won't live long enough to "wear out" my records. 

So, forget that....not enough years in a lifetime, to mess with that.


.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> My guy likes me. I pay nowhere close to retail on the Hegel.




There are no prices on the web site...so that means they are FREE, anyway....


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> HA!
> 
> No I don't! I have started that several times and realized it's too time consuming and does not sound as good.
> 
> ...


 

 I know I envy you. I get mesmerised looking at a record spinning. Best invention in the world IMO.
  
 Right now my tubes are selling faster than I can pack them up and send it out LOL. I have to send it to 4 different persons !!! How did I become a seller suddenly. I might make enough to buy a turntable. Linn Sondek LP12. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 THIS


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I know I envy you. I get mesmerised looking at a record spinning. Best invention in the world IMO.
> 
> Right now my tubes are selling faster than I can pack them up and send it out LOL. I have to send it to 4 different persons !!! How did I become a seller suddenly. I might make enough to buy a turntable. Linn Sondek LP12.




Don't forget to but another nice DAC....for the table


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Don't forget to but another nice DAC....for the table


 

 LMAO..if I go and buy a turntable and I ask the salesman for a DAC for it, he must think I just came out from a cave.


----------



## glassmonkey

Hi guys,
  
 I've decided to part with my Elise. It is a 230V version, and still under warranty. I simply need the money for other things. Sad to see it go after discovering that it drives the HE-6 with aplomb. If I had an HE-6 of my own, I might have kept the amp, but alas I do not.
  
 I'm selling for £300 with Lorenz C3G and adapters made by Hypnos1.
  
 The listing is here.
  
 I hope someone can enjoy it as much as I have.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> LMAO..if I go and buy a turntable and I ask the salesman for a DAC for it, he must think I just came out from a cave.




He would definitely see a 'sales opportunity'...

LOL


----------



## UntilThen

glassmonkey said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've decided to part with my Elise. It is a 230V version, and still under warranty. I simply need the money for other things. Sad to see it go after discovering that it drives the HE-6 with aplomb. If I had an HE-6 of my own, I might have kept the amp, but alas I do not.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh WOW. You realise you could have sold it for the price on Feliks Audio site now right? ...and it comes with C3G and adapters...wow. Someone snap this up quick is all I can say. This is not going to last...especially since you can get Elise for Christmas right away !!!
  
 Understand your wanting to sell it for your own reasons. Really happy to see it being able to power a HE-6 !!! OMG I'm going to borrow a HE-6 now.
  
 I totally agree with what you said in your ad...that with the right power and driver tubes, Elise is up there with any tube amps, regardless of price. What it's doing to my HE560 now makes me laugh and cry at the same time.


----------



## glassmonkey

untilthen said:


> Oh WOW. You realise you could have sold it for the price on Feliks Audio site now right?


 
  
 Selling rules say that you can't sell it for more than it costs when you buy it, unfortunately. I could sell it at £330ish and not be up against the classified rules. I don't want to get warnings or a ban over the Elise, I like this community. Someone is going to love this amp a lot.
  
 I have some LH Labs Cables that I'd love to sell for more than the customs charges I paid for them (they were sent free by LH Labs), but I'd be violating classified rules.


----------



## UntilThen

glassmonkey said:


> Selling rules say that you can't sell it for more than it costs when you buy it, unfortunately. I could sell it at £330ish and not be up against the classified rules. I don't want to get warnings or a ban over the Elise, I like this community. Someone is going to love this amp a lot.
> 
> I have some LH Labs Cables that I'd love to sell for more than the customs charges I paid for them (they were sent free by LH Labs), but I'd be violating classified rules.


 

 Good on you. You have integrity. Well it's someone's good fortune then.
  
@geetarman49  ...hint hint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 GBP300 is just US$451 what a steal !!!


----------



## glassmonkey

untilthen said:


> Good on you. You have integrity. Well it's someone's good fortune then.
> 
> @geetarman49  ...hint hint
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is a 230V version, as I'm in Europe, so any North American buyers would have to get it converted. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with selling it. One day I'll move back to the USA, and I'll have to sell it or send it to Poland before taking it over.


----------



## UntilThen

glassmonkey said:


> It is a 230V version, as I'm in Europe, so any North American buyers would have to get it converted. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with selling it. One day I'll move back to the USA, and I'll have to sell it or send it to Poland before taking it over.


 

 Oh..yes..I think @geetarman49 is keen but he's Canadian and 120V.... 
  
 I'm sure conversion isn't a big issue or is it...safest is to send to Feliks Audio to be converted, thereby still preserving the warranty.
  
 This would have been perfect for anyone in Australia too...230V.


----------



## aqsw

Got home today and there was a tube waiting for me from Langrex. Went back to my purchase history and I bought an ecc31 from them. It says ecc31 on the packing slip. It is 1/2 the size of my other ecc31. It states Nr73. Apw 1280?. It is coke bottlebut small. What is this.
?
It says mullard on the packing slip. Cant see it on the tube.


----------



## geetarman49

glassmonkey said:


> It is a 230V version, as I'm in Europe, so any North American buyers would have to get it converted. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with selling it. One day I'll move back to the USA, and I'll have to sell it or send it to Poland before taking it over.


 

 you have PM, GM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Got home today and there was a tube waiting for me from Langrex. Went back to my purchase history and I bought an ecc31 from them. It says ecc31 on the packing slip. It is 1/2 the size of my other ecc31. It states Nr73. Apw 1280?. It is coke bottlebut small. What is this.
> ?


 

 Half the size??? Have you got a midget? You sure your other ECC31 is a ECC31 or an Amazon?
  
 See mine aren't exactly the same too from different sellers. The one on the right is shorter and the smoke glass band is thinner.


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> Got home today and there was a tube waiting for me from Langrex. Went back to my purchase history and I bought an ecc31 from them. It says ecc31 on the packing slip. It is 1/2 the size of my other ecc31. It states Nr73. Apw 1280?. It is coke bottlebut small. What is this.
> ?
> It says mullard on the packing slip. Cant see it on the tube.


 

 can you post a pic?  i just got mine from langrex a few days ago and they are both imprinted with mullard and ecc31.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Half the size??? Have you got a midget? You sure your other ECC31 is a ECC31 or an Amazon?
> 
> See mine aren't exactly the same too from different sellers. The one on the right is shorter and the smoke glass band is thinner.



my original ecc31 is about the same size as the Mazdas. This one is 1/2 the size.? Black 1/2 way up.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> you have PM, GM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm smiling happily for you gee ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope sorting out the 230V to 120V is not an issue. All the best mate...


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Got home today and there was a tube waiting for me from Langrex. Went back to my purchase history and I bought an ecc31 from them. It says ecc31 on the packing slip. It is 1/2 the size of my other ecc31. It states Nr73. Apw 1280?. It is coke bottlebut small. What is this.
> ?
> It says mullard on the packing slip. Cant see it on the tube.




Picture, please...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> my original ecc31 is about the same size as the Mazdas. This one is 1/2 the size.? Black 1/2 way up.


 

 Well that's not right then. Your original ECC31 must be an Amazon then. See my normal ECC31 vs the Mazda on the left.


----------



## aqsw

Heres the two of them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Heres the two of them.




The one on the right is an ECC31, not sure what you have, on the left.

.


----------



## aqsw

The big one is from Canada. The little guy is from England. I can understand!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Heres the two of them.


 
 OMG Aqsw...the left tube is a 6H13C... power tube. That is no way a Mazda or Honda or Toyota. No wonder it won't play as your driver !!!
  
 Please double check with us next time you buy more tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> The big one is from Canada. The little guy is from England. I can understand!




The one on the left looks like a power tube...


----------



## aqsw

No wonder I got it so cheap!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> No wonder I got it so cheap!


 
 If you check that tube with your stock power tube, they should look the same. That's a Russian power tube. Svetlana 6H13C.


----------



## aqsw

I will do that. Thanks. At least I have a good ecc31 for my 2031.setup.

Thanks guys.

My stocks are still in the box.


----------



## aqsw

Its Cat Stevens night audio, with Monday night raw video


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I will do that. Thanks. At least I have a good ecc31 for my 2031.setup.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> My stocks are still in the box.


 

 I still have one NOS ECC31 and they are the real thing LOL. PM me if you're interested. Same price as the Langrex one.


----------



## aqsw

Quick question, did I get ripped on the ecc31? 70gbp delivered.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I still have one NOS ECC31 and they are the real thing LOL. PM me if you're interested. Same price as the Langrex one.




Did you read my post earlier. The wallets closed!


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





aqsw said:


> Did you read my post earlier. The wallets closed!


 

 Love for tubes knows no end.


----------



## aqsw

I have a 2031, 20mazda, 2xmazda, mazda31, 31mazda, mazda20, 2xfdd20. Im good!
and a 3120


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I have a 2031, 20mazda, 2xmazda, mazda31, 31mazda, mazda20, 2xfdd20. Im good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes you should be good but don't confuse me ...your Mazda is Svetlana 6H13C  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Alright cyas later..I need to send those FDD20s to you real quick.


----------



## aqsw

Im hooking up jvs fdd20 adaptor tonight with the ecc 31. I know at least one of my ecc31 adapters is garbage. I hope the other one works.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Yes you should be good but don't confuse me ...your Mazda is Svetlana 6H13C
> 
> Alright cyas later..I need to send those FDD20s to you real quick.


these are my Mazdas RX7s


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> these are my Mazdas RX7s


 
 Yes those are really Mazda 6N7G. Why did you link the Svetlana earlier?


----------



## aqsw

I was told it wasan ecc31. No idea, paid 5 bucks for it . Cash . I cant blame the guy, he was as clueless as I was.


----------



## aqsw

Audio Nirvana


----------



## UntilThen

That's really nirvana. You're so lucky to buy those Mazda at that price.


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> Heres the two of them.


 

 tell-tale factors of russky powers -- flying saucer getters (some exceptions) & gradual curvature of st glass shape from the 'side' to the socket base  --- contrast that with real mullard where the glass is 'sharply' molded in from the side to the socket.
  
 of course, there's all that printing ... including OTK ...


----------



## geetarman49

pctazhp said:


> UT:  I just won giannonisurplus' most recent auction for a pair of his Philips Miniwatt FDD20s. I feel like my Elise tube collection is pretty complete, but I still don't have a pair of 5998s.. Seems like those are now impossible to find and I entered the hunt a little too late.


 

 and you ... you! ptak!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  what's this?  i thought 'we' head-fiers on elise thread were going to be nice to each other & not go on bidding wars.
  
 haha ... i forgive you.


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha you guys are bidding against each other.

I might have a pair of Joybringers for sale later after I test it against the Mazda 6N7G. 

For me it's about sharing the joy. I onsell these without profit.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Back to 2 FDD20 and 5998. Wondering why I need to change to other tubes.
> 
> This is täydellisyys.
> 
> ...


 
  
_Perfection_ it is then. I certainly should, and I do.


----------



## aqsw

Wow, I just got an email. I had ordered Ethers (open back) about three monhs ago. 
My same guy (dealer) said he just paid for them. They will be here next week.
Heres the good part. He couldnt remember if I ordered closed or open.
I told him closed because I changed my mind. He said good because thats what he thought I wanted.


----------



## aqsw

oskari said:


> _Perfection_ it is then. I certainly should, and I do. :rolleyes:




I have a feeling that will be my end game too!


----------



## aqsw

Thank God my Headphone setup is dwnstairs in the rec room. I haven't been upstairs since last week when I forgot my wifes 60th birthday,


----------



## TomNC

jerick70 said:


> Thanks Sup.  I'll post as soon as I get some good listening time in.  There was a recent review of the Elise in the Headgear review section.  It said that the Elise drove the HE-6 like a dream.  This is very good news for my Audezes.


 
  
 Could you please post or PM a link to this review? I am highly keen to read some details about Elise driving HE-6. Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Thank God my Headphone setup is dwnstairs in the rec room. I haven't been upstairs since last week when I forgot my wifes 60th birthday,


 

 LOL you're hilarious Aqsw. You forgot your wife's 60th??? I feel so sorry for you now. You'll be living in the basement forever.


----------



## UntilThen

tomnc said:


> Could you please post or PM a link to this review? I am highly keen to read some details about Elise driving HE-6. Thanks.


 

 Hi Tom,
  
 I don't know if there's a separate review but here GM talks about driving the HE-6 with Elise at 50% volume only, with lots of power to spare.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/790413/feliks-audio-elise-tube-amplifier-and-extras-c3g-and-custom-silver-adapters-more
  
*Here..there's the review*
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14259


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> _Perfection_ it is then. I certainly should, and I do.


 

 Sup my perfectionist friend


----------



## Oskari

geetarman49 said:


> tell-tale factors of russky powers -- flying saucer getters (some exceptions) & gradual curvature of st glass shape from the 'side' to the socket base  --- contrast that with real mullard where the glass is 'sharply' molded in from the side to the socket.
> 
> of course, there's all that printing ... including OTK ...


 
  
 … and the "Winged C" of Svetlana.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Wow, I just got an email. I had ordered Ethers (open back) about three monhs ago.
> My same guy (dealer) said he just paid for them. They will be here next week.
> Heres the good part. He couldnt remember if I ordered closed or open.
> I told him closed because I changed my mind. He said good because thats what he thought I wanted.


 
 LOL are the closed version much better? I'm always an open back guy.


----------



## jerick70

tomnc said:


> Could you please post or PM a link to this review? I am highly keen to read some details about Elise driving HE-6. Thanks.




This is the review... http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14259


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Sup my perfectionist friend


 
  
 Way past my bedtime. I'm sure there'll be many new pages in this thread when I wake up.


----------



## jerick70

How is everyone doing tonight. My wife decided that we are going to finish laying tile in our basement. She doesn't want to pay a contractor. So that's what i get to do for the next few nights. I thought i would check in and say hi. Hopefully we get done before my Elise shows up.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> LOL are the closed version much better? I'm always an open back guy.




I've been wanting to try the Ethers since they came out. I would like to know the same.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> How is everyone doing tonight. My wife decided that we are going to finish laying tile in our basement. She doesn't want to pay a contractor. So that's what i get to do for the next few nights. I thought i would check in and say hi. Hopefully we get done before my Elise shows up.


 

 It's afternoon 3pm here. I'm enjoying great music with 2 FDD20 and Tung Sol 7236. Last test of the 7236 before sending off to pctzahp. These 7236 sound really good. I think he got a real bargain.
  
 I'd never imagine that Elise can drive the HE-6. That is really something.


----------



## UntilThen

Elise can drive this beast. !!!
  
 HE-6 
  
 Overview
  
 Considered by many to be the world''s finest headphone, without regard to price, the HIFIMAN HE-6 features the company''s proprietary planar magnetic technology in a no-compromise design. With sensitivity of 83.5dB, the HE-6 must be paired with a headphone amplifier of comparable quality such as the HIFIMAN EF5 which delivers 2 watts per channel. The HE-6 is the reference choice of critical listeners around the world.
 HE-6 requires a *powerful* headphone amplifier to drive it. Our EF6 headphone amplifier can serve *5*
  
*Specs*
  
 Frequency Response: 8 to 65 KHz
 Impedance: 50 Ohm
 Efficiency: 83.5 DB
 Weight: 502 g
*Accessories:*
 Leather storage box
 OCC(single crystal copper) 4pin XLR cable *1 (2 m / 6 ft)
 OCC XLR to 6.5mm headphone plug adapter *1 (1m / 3 ft)
 Headphone cable connector *2


----------



## TomNC

@UntilThen; @jerick70
  
 Thanks for the link to the review. It is surprising to see that Elise can drive HE-6 that well. The specification says its output power 200mW (I guess reference to 300 ohm phones). For HE-6 (55 ohms?), the output should be close to 1 watt? That sounds barely enough for the HE-6. Is it possible that the upgraded tubes can increase gain over the specifications? Or the design feature of the Elise allow high current output to be able to drive the HE-6 better than those with limited current.
  
 I have ruled out several tube and SS state amps for their limitations in driving HE-6. Now with the information that Elise can drive HE-6 quite well...I have no doubt over the the reviewer's listening impressions since he was listening to the HE-6 through the F6 at the same time. What an intriguing amp!


----------



## UntilThen

tomnc said:


> @UntilThen; @jerick70
> 
> Thanks for the link to the review. It is surprising to see that Elise can drive HE-6 that well. The specification says its output power 200mW (I guess reference to 300 ohm phones). For HE-6 (55 ohms?), the output should be close to 1 watt? That sounds barely enough for the HE-6. Is it possible that the upgraded tubes can increase gain over the specifications? Or the design feature of the Elise allow high current output to be able to drive the HE-6 better than those with limited current.
> 
> I have ruled out several tube and SS state amps for their limitations in driving HE-6. Now with the information that Elise can drive HE-6 quite well...I have no doubt over the the reviewer's listening impressions since he was listening to the HE-6 through the F6 at the same time. *What an intriguing amp!*


 

 I believe Glassmonkey was using only the stock Russian Svetlana 6H13C power tubes. As he mentioned, with upgraded tubes, Elise will soar further. This new revelation will elevate Elise even higher up the pedestal. 
  
 Likewise I didn't expect Elise to drive my HiFiman HE560 so well. It is 90db and 32ohms. Which is inefficient. My comfort listening level on HE560 is 10 o'clock. 11am and it's loud. 12noon on the volume dial and I'm seriously about to destroy my ears. Elise certainly makes light work driving the HE560. That headphone as I mentioned many times, is a perfect fit with Elise.
  
 Now Aqsw is having so much joy listening to LCD2.2 through Elise. He's not even using his LC lol. See his picture.


----------



## jerick70

tomnc said:


> @UntilThen; @jerick70
> 
> Thanks for the link to the review. It is surprising to see that Elise can drive HE-6 that well. The specification says its output power 200mW (I guess reference to 300 ohm phones). For HE-6 (55 ohms?), the output should be close to 1 watt? That sounds barely enough for the HE-6. Is it possible that the upgraded tubes can increase gain over the specifications? Or the design feature of the Elise allow high current output to be able to drive the HE-6 better than those with limited current.
> 
> I have ruled out several tube and SS state amps for their limitations in driving HE-6. Now with the information that Elise can drive HE-6 quite well...I have no doubt over the the reviewer's listening impressions since he was listening to the HE-6 through the F6 at the same time. What an intriguing amp!


 

 If I lived closer to you I would have been happy to have you come over to my place an try the Elsie out with your HE-6s.  You're still welcome to come if you want to come to Utah.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> If I lived closer to you I would have been happy to have you come over to my place an try the Elsie out with your HE-6s.  You're still welcome to come if you want to come to Utah.


 

 Yup Tom, you're welcome to bring your HE-6 to Sydney.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Yup Tom, you're welcome to bring your HE-6 to Sydney.


 

 That's a little bit closer.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> That's a little bit closer.


 

 Just a little closer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sydney is the centre if you turn the map upside down.
  
 I have never seen an OTL tube amp at this price point being able to *drive high and low impedance headphones so well*.


----------



## TomNC

Haha... Both Utah and Australia are on my travel list for the future. I am wondering how the output power is measured and defined by different manufacturers. Or that the voltage/current ranges match the resistance of the headphones is what matters much more than the power.


----------



## UntilThen

tomnc said:


> Haha... Both Utah and Australia are on my travel list for the future. I am wondering how the output power is measured and defined by different manufacturers. Or that the voltage/current ranges match the resistance of the headphones is what matters much more than the power.


 

 Impedance matching is important that's what they say but in Elise's case she has so far match every impedance of the various headphones.
  
 HD650 is child's play for Elise. 9 o'clock is my usual listening level with HD650. 10am and it's loud. You can see there's ample power driving a top end 300ohms dynamic headphone.
  
 It's not just the power but the control. Elise transient response is fast. She sounds exciting and yet at the same time like a tube amp. That's incredible. It's a refined sound. There's no rough edges here. It's power and glory. I wish everyone can get to sample Elise with the tubes I've on. If you think for a moment that Elise hasn't got bass slam, wait till you hear a bass heavy track.
  
 I love to spin Billy Gibbons 'Perfectamundo' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Try it if you have Tidal HiFi. Billy ain't holding anything back. He lets it rip. The drummer is in a frenzy.


----------



## UntilThen

Just finished 'Dark Side Of The Moon' by Pink Floyd. Old classic made new again by Elise and HE560. I am in love with this tube amp sound.
 It didn't have 19 million views for nothing.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Its Cat Stevens night audio, with Monday night raw video


 
 "Tea for the Tillerman"...hi-res from HDTracks...*lovely!*...Elise just _*adores*_ hi-res, lol! - especially with our latest tube finds...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
  


jerick70 said:


> How is everyone doing tonight. My wife decided that we are going to finish laying tile in our basement. She doesn't want to pay a contractor. So that's what i get to do for the next few nights. I thought i would check in and say hi.* Hopefully we get done before my Elise shows up*.


 
  
 'Hopefully', j70?...burn the midnight oil if necessary - *no way* can you let *anything* delay enjoying "Elise Magic" LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Just a little closer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Another poke in the eye for those who kept implying how the Elise just wouldn't in all probability drive low-z cans particularly well, even when the Feliks guys had _specifically_ designed (and tested!) this amp to do so...looks more like *very well* to me, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
*LONG LIVE ELISE!!!.....*





 
  
 ps. Btw.. Yes indeed, UT...the EL3N you so generously let me have does indeed complement the other nicely- much more so than the Tungsram (without the red band) would lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...thanks again...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> It's afternoon 3pm here. I'm enjoying great music with 2 FDD20 and Tung Sol 7236. Last test of the 7236 before sending off to pctzahp. These 7236 sound really good. I think he got a real bargain.
> 
> I'd never imagine that Elise can drive the HE-6. That is really something.


 
  
 UT:  Did a little more research on the Tung Sol 7236. I got a great bargain. Thanks so much. No hurry on sending. All I can do for right now is look at them)))


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> UT:  Did a little more research on the Tung Sol 7236. I got a great bargain. Thanks so much. No hurry on sending. All I can do for right now is look at them)))


 
 You can hang them on your christmas tree! They make lovely christmas ornaments


----------



## pctazhp

geetarman49 said:


> and you ... you! ptak!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry my friend. It wasn't intentional. Hope there will be another auction or UT can help you out.


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> You can hang them on your christmas tree! They make lovely christmas ornaments


 
 Ha)) That would be the final straw!!! My wife would throw me, my headphones and tubes all out the door!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> "Tea for the Tillerman"...hi-res from HDTracks...*lovely!*...Elise just _*adores*_ hi-res, lol! - especially with our latest tube finds...  :bigsmile_face:




Hello H1...

What Hi-Res player and/or DAC are you using? I have ALAC files ripped from the standard issue Tea For The Tillerman CD and I must say, pretty dismal sound quality. We have this on LP and it sounds good,

Buying this album in hi-res sounds like an interesting proposition.

Wonder why this album is the _only_ one by him, available on HDTracks?

..


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Just finished 'Dark Side Of The Moon' by Pink Floyd. Old classic made new again by Elise and HE560. I am in love with this tube amp sound.
> It didn't have 19 million views for nothing.




1973, was the year (42 years ago), that I bought the LP when it was a brand spanking new album, on the shelves. 

It was a real eye opener of an LP, and exposed many people to a whole new technological "standard" for recording, and audio quality.

Very different from the spacey/head music Pink Floyd had been making, prior to this release.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1...
> 
> What Hi-Res player and/or DAC are you using? I have ALAC files ripped from the standard issue Tea For The Tillerman CD and I must say, pretty dismal sound quality. We have this on LP and it sounds good,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...yeah, would have thought they could source some other decent original album material to remaster...real shame, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I use my Oppo BDP103's media player function coaxed out to the ESS Sabre DAC in my Audiolab 8200CD player...very impressive! (possibly even better still would be the Oppo BDP105, which also sports the ESS Sabre as opposed to the Wolfson in the 103 - for me, the Sabre just has more energy and 'sparkle'). And given they are both excellent BluRay/CD/DVDA etc. etc. players, I think these are wonderful "all rounders".


----------



## Oskari

_Perfetto!_


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> _Perfetto!_




Nice one, Oskari! Like it!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> *LONG LIVE ELISE!!!.....*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I woke up to these words and I thought we have a new Queen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No worries mate. A little gift for so great a deed you perform, to bring Elise to the community. I wonder what Feliks Audio reaction was when you first ask them ...
  
_'Hey guys, how about doing a tube amp that uses 6AS7 and 6SN7 family of tubes and price it low at 500 dollars. It has to be able to drive low and high impedance headphones, iem, dynamic and planars must be chicken feet for it, it needs to have power to drive any headphones on the planet, the true test being the HE-6. It must also look beautiful, a statement product, like the iPod. The last thing I want is a steel enclosure, bolt together with screws all over the place that looks like an industrial tube amp of the 19th century. Good luck and surprise me'._
  
 ...and so you went away thinking your $500 is safe and they will never get back to you, much less produce a prototype. Well the rest is history and generation X, Y and Z, including baby boomers of course and those before them, will enjoy an affordable, great sounding tube amp call Elise.
  
_*LONG LIVE ELISE !!!..... *_


----------



## geetarman49

pctazhp said:


> Sorry my friend. It wasn't intentional. Hope there will be another auction or UT can help you out.


 

 hey don't worry about it ... for now, UT is getting the last bit of my $ for toobs ... rest of $ must be saved for elise.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  Did a little more research on the Tung Sol 7236. I got a great bargain. Thanks so much. No hurry on sending. All I can do for right now is look at them)))


 
 You have no idea. The TS 7236 is the tube of the century. Just ask Mr. Tube himself... @Oskari. Besides it has IBM branded on it. That is worth another few hundred bucks. Ok jokes aside, the 7236 does not sound as gorgeous as the 5998. It was meant for commercial, to drive tape drives in computers BUT it did sound lovely on Elise and also attest by other reviewers on Tubemaze. If this is the stock power tubes that came with Elise, it would have sold by the bucket loads more by now.
  
 They are selling at approximately $100 each on eBay now (10 for > $1000). You got it for $100 a pair and you'll be very happy with the sound and I'm happy to make you happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


suuup said:


> You can hang them on your christmas tree! They make lovely christmas ornaments


 
 Yes, that's another benefit in buying the 7236. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> Sorry my friend. It wasn't intentional. Hope there will be another auction or UT can help you out.


 
 UT is a writer. He doesn't make tubes. Wish I did....
 Hey guys, I have a proposition, how about we start a tube making joint venture??? We're only going to make gorgeous tubes like the GEC 6AS7G and ECC32. 
  


pctazhp said:


> Ha)) That would be the final straw!!! My wife would throw me, my headphones and tubes all out the door!!!


 
 Well my friend, start finding a little den in some parts of the house now. Like it or not, you're going to be thrown out soon like Aqsw.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> 1973, was the year (42 years ago), that I bought the LP when it was a brand spanking new album, on the shelves.
> 
> It was a real eye opener of an LP, and exposed many people to a whole new technological "standard" for recording, and audio quality.
> 
> Very different from the spacey/head music Pink Floyd had been making, prior to this release.


 

 I was a teenager in 1973. The following year I went into the army. When 'Dark Side Of The Moon' was released, it is a defining moment in my life. Much more than Woodstock in 1969 because I was a kid then.
  
 High resolution music is the way to go now. No more washing your records. I actually wash my records when I had records with the Mitsubishi turntable. I use a dish washing sponge and pour some dish washing liquid on it and give it a nice scrub. Rinse it well with water and bingo you have a new LP.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV...yeah, would have thought they could source some other decent original album material to remaster...real shame, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well I think SACD is a great format. Pity it didn't take off. I have many audiophile CDs that are multi format but made especially for SACD.
  
 It's not call Super Audio CD for nothing !!!  Sony and Philips jointly developed it (1999) as a successor to their compact disc format.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Just ask Mr. Tube himself... @Oskari.


 
  
 Please don't! Give it up, UT!


----------



## aqsw

Just want to make sure. The FDD20 sockets do not need an adapter.
 Right?


----------



## glassmonkey

untilthen said:


> Well I think SACD is a great format. Pity it didn't take off. I have many audiophile CDs that are multi format but made especially for SACD.
> 
> It's not call Super Audio CD for nothing !!!  Sony and Philips jointly developed it (1999) as a successor to their compact disc form.


 
 DSD sounds objectively different and I tend to prefer it. When Sony's patent expires I think we'll see consumer SACD rippers. The lack of ability to rip to dsf file is why the format hasn't taken off.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Please don't! Give it up, UT!


 

 Huh? Don't give up the TS 7236? Too late I sold it !!! Well at least pctazhp will be happy and at the same time kick out of the house.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> ...
> UT is a writer. He doesn't make tubes. Wish I did....
> Hey guys, I have a proposition, how about we start a tube making joint venture??? We're only going to make gorgeous tubes like the GEC 6AS7G and ECC32.
> 
> ...


 
 hahaha ... good joke or pipedream.  even china with all the current hitech at its disposal cannot make tubes of this sonic quality ..
  
 btw, check your paypal
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Just want to make sure. The FDD20 sockets do not need an adapter.
> Right?


 

 Aqsw you lost me there. Have you started your drinks early way before Christmas?
  
 FDD20 tube goes in to FDD20 adapters from xulingmrs and that goes straight into Elise driver sockets. Clear?


----------



## UntilThen

glassmonkey said:


> DSD sounds objectively different and I tend to prefer it. When Sony's patent expires I think we'll see consumer SACD rippers. The lack of ability to rip to dsf file is why the format hasn't taken off.


 

 This man knows what he's talking about. Thanks GM. I need to find out about DSD. I think I have a few CD that says DSD capable. Is that possible or am I tipsy?
  
 Ok I have 'Closer To The Music' Vol. 1, 2 and 3 and it says SACD, DSD. Further it says, DSD stereo programs require a SACD player for playback. This hybrid Disk contains also a CD layer playable on any normal CD player.
  
 SACD and DSD and their logos are trademarks of Sony and Philips.
  
 I think the 'Hell Freezes Over' by Eagles XRCD extended resolution CD is a very well recorded CD. One of the best in sound IMO.


----------



## geetarman49

glassmonkey said:


> DSD sounds objectively different and I tend to prefer it. When Sony's patent expires I think we'll see consumer SACD rippers. The lack of ability to rip to dsf file is why the format hasn't taken off.


 

 sorry to inform ... but this will not happen.  sony patent expiring or not does not make a difference here ... the content is protected by music industry & they will never allow proliferation of sacd rippers (again).  it happened once (very early on) during the release of first units of sony playstation 1 equipped w unprotected sacd drive.
  
 there are (to my knowledge) only a few available drives (players) that can currently be used to rip sacd content --- these units are quite expensive & then there are the pro units, but the s/w is also expensive.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Huh?


 
  
 In short: don't mention my name when you can avoid it. Please. I'm not trying to get famous here.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> In short: don't mention my name when you can avoid it. Please. I'm not trying to get famous here.


 

 Too late everyone knows you now. You're my tube knowledge.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm looking for a pair of nice GEC 6AS7G. Let me know if you're selling one cheap or reasonable.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm amazed. I put in a pair of new RVC FDD20 to test in Elise to make sure it's working before sending it out but it sounded good straight away. I really don't know what 'better' means by further burn in down the track.
  
 'Whiter Shade of Pale' by Annie Lennox is soul moving.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> _Perfetto!_





 Omg Johnny Depp sounds really good. !!!


----------



## aqsw

Got my 20 31 running. Sounds fantastic. Has a hum between songs. I will let her run and hopefully the hum will go away. Distorts way up the volume level, but I dont 
listen at that level anyways. Using JVs adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Got my 20 31 running. Sounds fantastic. Has a hum between songs. I will let her run and hopefully the hum will go away. Distorts way up the volume level, but I dont
> listen at that level anyways. Using JVs adapter.


 

 Wait...is you 12V AC adapter with 3 pin? I.e is it grounded? If it is not, you need to run another ground wire. Hook the ground wire to the RCA input socket of Elise on the negative side. On the other end, twist it together with the negative wires to contact with the negative on the FDD20 negative plates.
  
 Once grounded, you should have zero hum. I use a grounded 12V AC power supply adapter and I don't need that extra ground wire. Hum free.


----------



## aqsw

3 pin grounded.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok that means you have the same problem as JV. For him, even with a grounded power supply, he still needs to run a separate ground wire to Elise chassis. Do that and you'll be hum free. The distortion is due to the hum too. Once you're grounded properly you should be able to shoot to 3pm without problems.


----------



## UntilThen

So get a wire and attached it with the negative wires to the negative of the FDD20 adapter. Right side hole on photo.
  
 At the moment this photo hasn't got a ground wire attach. Using it as an illustration.

  
 On the other end, attach the ground wire to the right input RCA (negative) of Elise. Ignore the grey wire. This is JV connecting his turntable ground as well, that's why he has 2 wires. In your case, it's just one wire.
  
 All you do is hook the bend wire to the RCA male plug and then you insert it into the RCA socket of Elise. So it is basically clipped to the outer part of the RCA contact of Elise. The wire cannot be too thick or the RCA plug won't go in fully and contact, in which case you get no left channel sound or softer. Make sure the RCA is in properly and contacting well.


----------



## UntilThen

If you buy the new adapters from xulingmrs, then it's even easier. Just twist the ground with the negatives and the other end to Elise RCA and that's it.
 This

  
 With JV's adapter, you have to remove the FDD20 tube, twist the ground wire with the negative and reinsert into the hole and let it drop down in waterfall fashion. Make sure the positive goes in as well. Then reinsert the tube and you're done. When it drops into the FDD20 adapter, make sure the positive and negative wires are not touching.
  
 REMEMBER YOU NEED TO GROUND IT. THE HUM DOES NOT GO AWAY IF YOU DON'T.


----------



## glassmonkey

geetarman49 said:


> sorry to inform ... but this will not happen.  sony patent expiring or not does not make a difference here ... the content is protected by music industry & they will never allow proliferation of sacd rippers (again).  it happened once (very early on) during the release of first units of sony playstation 1 equipped w unprotected sacd drive.
> 
> there are (to my knowledge) only a few available drives (players) that can currently be used to rip sacd content --- these units are quite expensive & then there are the pro units, but the s/w is also expensive.




First, you're thinking of the early firmware fat PS3, which is still the most available iso ripper. Second, Sony controls the technology so they can stop supply of rippers, which also reduces supply of software, creating a patent supported monopoly. Also, Sony happens to be a large music studio, which explains some of the monopolist behaviour. When the monopoly disappears so do the high prices and shortages. It can also spark a dsd download boom. 

The stupid thing is that the sacd has largely failed because it isn't portable. There is money to be made in selling rippable sacds. I don't buy your arguments, as they ignore the effect of Sony's near complete control of the sacd market.


----------



## UntilThen

It's amazing I have at least 20 SACD capable CDs but I don't have a SACD player so I'm not realising the benefits of SACD.
  
 It's like buying tube amp and staying with stock tubes forever.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Omg Johnny Depp sounds really good. !!!


 
  
 Oh, yeah. Looks dumb. Sounds great, though.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm chatting as I pack my tubes. I hope I don't send the wrong tubes to the wrong person LOL.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I was a teenager in 1973. The following year I went into the army. When 'Dark Side Of The Moon' was released, it is a defining moment in my life. Much more than Woodstock in 1969 because I was a kid then.
> 
> High resolution music is the way to go now. No more washing your records. I actually wash my records when I had records with the Mitsubishi turntable. I use a dish washing sponge and pour some dish washing liquid on it and give it a nice scrub. Rinse it well with water and bingo you have a new LP.




No no no, to liquid LP cleaning. Wood Glue is the answer.

Use an old turntable to spin the disk, and apply TiteBond II wood glue. Spread it out with old playing cards.

Set aside and let dry thoroughly.

Then, peel off the wood glue (come off in a big single sheet) and it pulls all the grime/gunk/dirt with it. This is the ONLY way to go, I have used the technique for years. Makes average dirty LP's new, makes completely "dragged behind the Pontiac/Abused" LP's listenable again.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z61k5UAWev8[/VIDEO]


PS - no fancy DAC needed


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> 3 pin grounded.




I had one 3 pin grounded PS that *still* needed the extra ground wire to kill hum.

Add the extra path to ground and you'll be dead silent.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> No no no, to liquid LP cleaning. Wood Glue is the answer.
> 
> Use an old turntable to spin the disk, and apply TiteBond II wood glue. Spread it out with old playing cards.
> 
> ...


 
 Using glue !!! That revolutionary technique. If the glue doesn't come off, you're left with a wall art. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When I was young, I didn't have money to buy LPs. So I rent them from records shops cheap and I wash them before playing being the OCD that I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The record shops get their records back looking new. The records that I rented have thick layers of dirt in the grove before I wash them. I'm sure the stylus would have been stuck if I didn't wash it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> If you buy the new adapters from xulingmrs, then it's even easier. Just twist the ground with the negatives and the other end to Elise RCA and that's it.
> This
> 
> 
> ...




You don't necessarily have to remove the tube! You can add the third ground wire at the end of the wire, where it connects to the PS (on the Negative side).

This will also serve to silence the hum.

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Using glue !!! That revolutionary technique. If the glue doesn't come off, you're left with a wall art.
> 
> When I was young, I didn't have money to buy LPs. So I rent them from records shops cheap and I wash them before playing being the OCD that I am.
> The record shops get their records back looking new.




The wood glue chemically cannot adhere to the vinyl, it always comes off.

When I was young, I bought records and recorded them to cassette on first play. Wore the cassettes out then played the record for the 2nd time....etc. I kept track of how many times the LP was played on a slip of paper I added.

This went on for decades - I had many 30 year old records that had been played less then 5 times.

At some point, I realized the records would easily out last me...so just started playing 'em at will. 

Also, there were many "urban legends" regarding vinyl playback, back in the day. No internet, no way to know the actual true facts.

One of the "Urban Legends" you always heard, was that playing a record heated up the groove to 300 degrees F...

Absolute rubbish, but I remember everyone, believed it.

The "good old" days...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ok that means you have the same problem as JV. For him, even with a grounded power supply, he still needs to run a separate ground wire to Elise chassis. Do that and you'll be hum free. The distortion is due to the hum too. Once you're grounded properly you should be able to shoot to 3pm without problems.




I had one of three grounded Power supplies that still needed the extra grounding. Two, thankfully, do not...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> You don't necessarily have to remove the tube! You can add the third ground wire at the end of the wire, where it connects to the PS (on the Negative side).
> 
> This will also serve to silence the hum.
> 
> .


 

 Ok I see you've already connected wires to the FDD20 adapters for Aqsw..like this. In which case yes, just connect the ground wire to the end of the white wire and negative of PS.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The wood glue chemically cannot adhere to the vinyl, it always comes off.
> 
> When I was young, I bought records and recorded them to cassette on first play. Wore the cassettes out then played the record for the 2nd time....etc. I kept track of how many times the LP was played on a slip of paper I added.
> 
> ...


 

 JV you look after the records better than yourself or a beautiful woman !!! That is extreme. I'd play frisbee with those records 
  
 I did buy some genuine first pressing from a friend at work, whose girlfriend work at Sony. Alas I gave all my records away including a Deep Purple album. Ooo yeah I was a rock and roll guy back in those days. Ever heard of Grand Funk Railroad?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV you look after the records better than yourself or a beautiful woman !!! That is extreme. I'd play frisbee with those records
> 
> I did buy some genuine first pressing from a friend at work, whose girlfriend work at Sony. Alas I gave all my records away including a Deep Purple album. Ooo yeah I was a rock and roll guy back in those days. Ever heard of Grand Funk Railroad?




After playing frisbee with MY records, you also get to nurse a black eye!

Yeah, heard of them....LOL and probably have most of their early records. And most early Deep Purple records, and most all Jethro Tull records and well..you know


----------



## UntilThen

Here's living the past again...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Here's living the past again...




I saw them multiple times, right about when this was current. Mark Farner looked like a guy in our class at school that was nicknamed Rudda-budda. Folks from our school were flipping out at how much Farner looked like Rudda-budda!

it was almost scary! Rudda-budda did not attend the show as I recall, but I'm sure he heard all about it 

GFRR, Uriah Heep, Humble Pie, Eric Clapton, Alice Cooper, REO Speedwagon, Neil Young, Frank Zappa, Jethro Tull, ELP, Freddie King, etc etc etc...

We saw them all, some multiple times.

That was back when ticket prices were affordable (because you would run and buy up records after seeing them).
Now, everyone steals music, and live show prices are sky high, the only way for musicians to earn any coin.

BTW, Mark Farner is super religious now, and makes music in the Christian Rock genre...which is not popular. 

GFRR had a methodical crook as a manager who really screwed the band, during it's early success. They dumped him and hired Todd Rundgren to produce the "Were An American Band" album...that sold very well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Remember Record Clubs?

"pick out x number now and agree to buy x more at regular club prices over the next year..."


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> GFRR, Uriah Heep, Humble Pie, Eric Clapton, Alice Cooper, REO Speedwagon, Neil Young, Frank Zappa, Jethro Tull, ELP, Freddie King, etc etc etc...


 
 You remind me too much about the past...my past...Led Zeppelin, Bad Company, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Guns & Roses, Rolling Stones...
  
 I envy you..that you get to see them live. Long live rock and roll. lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> You remind me too much about the past...my past...Led Zeppelin, Bad Company, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Guns & Roses, Rolling Stones...
> 
> I envy you..that you get to see them live. Long live rock and roll. lol.




Saw the Stones a number of times...never saw any of your others  Oh and The WHO several times, too 

Savoy Brown a bunch of times...loved those guys 

.


----------



## geetarman49

glassmonkey said:


> First, you're thinking of the early firmware fat PS3, which is still the most available iso ripper. Second, Sony controls the technology so they can stop supply of rippers, which also reduces supply of software, creating a patent supported monopoly. Also, Sony happens to be a large music studio, which explains some of the monopolist behaviour. When the monopoly disappears so do the high prices and shortages. It can also spark a dsd download boom.
> 
> The stupid thing is that the sacd has largely failed because it isn't portable. There is money to be made in selling rippable sacds. I don't buy your arguments, as they ignore the effect of Sony's near complete control of the sacd market.


 

 yes, ofc, ps3 ... doh!   .  when the day comes that sony's patent expires, i'm still of the belief that nothing will change. we won't see a proliferation of cheap sacd rippers & if they appear, you can bet that sony et al will sic their lawyers and import watchdogs up their yinyang.  i can't see it (allowing cheap rippers) happening.
  
 sacd failed because sony didn't learn from its betamax disaster. instead of allowing every tom, dick & harry to be able to mass produce the h/w, they concentrated on the ultra-high-end market & the exclusivity of such a format ... they should have followed the vw, honda, toyota, kia, hyundai process & introduced a wide array of inexpensive players instead of boutique $5k, $10k models that only a handful of enthusiasts could afford.  & by the time, the cheap-er h/w appeared, it was already too late.
  
 but this is probably all moot because dsd/dsf files are readily available now ... one just needs to look.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> yes, ofc, ps3 ... doh!   .  when the day comes that sony's patent expires, i'm still of the belief that nothing will change. we won't see a proliferation of cheap sacd rippers & if they appear, you can bet that sony et al will sic their lawyers and import watchdogs up their yinyang.  i can't see it (allowing cheap rippers) happening.
> 
> sacd failed because sony didn't learn from its betamax disaster. instead of allowing every tom, dick & harry to be able to mass produce the h/w, they concentrated on the ultra-high-end market & the exclusivity of such a format ... they should have followed the vw, honda, toyota, kia, hyundai process & introduced a wide array of inexpensive players instead of boutique $5k, $10k models that only a handful of enthusiasts could afford.  & by the time, the cheap-er h/w appeared, it was already too late.
> 
> but this is probably all moot because dsd/dsf files are readily available now ... one just needs to look.


 

 I say all we need is a digital Linn Sondek LP12 and a good DAC to convert digital to analogue. 
  
 Did you not hear that Linn is making a digital turntable using laser beam instead of stylus?


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I've finally finished packing 4 sets of tubes and I'm heading to Post Office now. Would have finish earlier if I didn't get a scam call. An indian voice saying he's Jack Peterson from Tax Office. Say they are taking me to court unless I settle there and then ...pay $7421 into their account and all will be forgotten. 
  
 I say I will if your middle name is stupid and you get converted and buy 10 Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Saw the Stones a number of times...never saw any of your others  Oh and The WHO several times, too
> 
> Savoy Brown a bunch of times...loved those guys
> 
> .


 

 JV, you bring back the memories...and this was my favourite at one time. 87 million views !!!


----------



## aqsw

GFRR is still playing. I saw them 2 years go at Sturgis.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> GFRR is still playing. I saw them 2 years go at Sturgis.


 

 Good.
  
 Did you ground your FDD20 and get rid of the hum?


----------



## UntilThen

I tried the HE560 with this rig Fiio X5 + E12. Volume almost max to get a satisfying listen. After listening through Elise, this doesn't sound good anymore. HD650 fares better with this rig.
  
 Fiio X5 is suppose to do this.
*Native DSD Decoding*
 The all new digital audio architecture incorporated in the X5 Gen-2 allows it to decode native DSD64/128 files and support direct playback of SACD ISOs. Apart from these, all lossless formats including WAV, FLAC, WMA, APE, AIFF, ALAC, etc.
  
 Fiio E12

Drive ability16~300Ω(recommend)Battery Capacity9.7Wh (880mAh / 11.1V)Output Power>880mW@32Ω THD<0.005%Frequency Response10 Hz ~ 100KHz
  

  
 Now on Elise at 11am with 2 FDD20 and 5998 through HE560 ... it's heavenly


----------



## UntilThen

Review is up on Elise site with pictures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14724


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Review is up on Elise site with pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Brilliant work UT...WELL DONE! (Don't know when you have been sleeping, given how busy you've been, lol!...methinks Elise has been - and still is! - your demanding mistress!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










)...
  
 ps.   Must go now...time to have a go at the EL3N....wish me (more!) luck...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> ps.   Must go now...time to have a go at the EL3N....wish me (more!) luck...


 
 Good luck Pathfinder....and the adventures of Elise in Wonderland continues.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Brilliant work UT...WELL DONE! (Don't know when you have been sleeping, given how busy you've been, lol!...methinks Elise has been - and still is! - your demanding mistress!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Be sure to update us - preferably with pictures! Really looking forward to the outcome of your adventure.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup do you have 2 fdd20 set up yet? Want your impressions of that vs the Fivre 6N7G brown base.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup do you have 2 fdd20 set up yet? Want your impressions of that vs the Fivre 6N7G brown base.


 
 I haven't. The bases are on the slow-boat from China. It's a long way over here, compared to Australia. Have you gotten the Fivres?


----------



## UntilThen

No. Also waiting on the Joybringer. 
These are my most eagerly awaiting tubes.

I'm mainly on Philips Miniwatt Fdd20 with 5998 now. Not even Mazda 6N7Gs are getting much run time.

This setup sounds so right now with HE560. It's like a craftman tuned piano. Notes are perfection, pronounced French style.


----------



## Suuup

Anybody received their cone feet yet?


----------



## UntilThen

I didn't order them. Coneless seems alright now. I rather buy a better RCA interconnect and USB cable now. Power cable too. Minor upgrade ones. Not the super expensive ones. I am using the bare minimum now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 These ones..I like green. Nice?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I tried the HE560 with this rig Fiio X5 + E12. Volume almost max to get a satisfying listen. After listening through Elise, this doesn't sound good anymore. HD650 fares better with this rig.
> 
> *Native DSD Decoding*
> The all new digital audio architecture incorporated in the X5 Gen-2 allows it to decode native DSD64/128 files and support direct playback of SACD ISOs. Apart from these, all lossless formats including WAV, FLAC, WMA, APE, AIFF, ALAC, etc.
> ...




Do you continue to use this DAP as a source for the Elise?


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> GFRR is still playing. I saw them 2 years go at Sturgis.




You saw the new lineup...not the Power Trio they once were...Mark Farner teamed up for a few shows in 1999, absent, since.

http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/band.html

.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Thanks to the help and kindness of h1 and Suuup I am now a member of the 2031 club. Although new, the tubes sound great right from the start.
  
 I use a grounded 18.5V 3A laptop power supply and a 5A voltage regulator for the FDD20. With the 2031 there is a fair amount of hum (more than I like), but it is not noticeable when playing music at moderate volume.
  
 For some reason the hum decreases when I turn the volume all the way up on the Elise (remember, I use the Elise as a preamp), but it is still there. Added an extra ground wire from the negative out on the voltage regulator to the negative RCA cable - made things worse. However, just connecting it to the voltage regulator and leaving the other end of the wire unconnected lowers the hum a notch.
  
 The hum is really not noticeable, even with no music playing, at normal listening levels. BUT, connecting my headphones at any volume level makes them unlistenable because of the pronounced hum. It is not a major problem for me since I don't use them much. Strangely, I do not have hum issues with the 6BL7 tubes so they are my headphone tubes. (With the Mazda 6N7G tubes and other 6N7G tubes I also had hum problems with the headphones.)
  
 In sum , I do not understand why I have these hum problems, but my situation is manageable. My room is full of cables and wires, power outlets, computers etc - maybe the culprit is in this tangle somewhere.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi,
> Thanks to the help and kindness of h1 and Suuup I am now a member of the 2031 club. Although new, the tubes sound great right from the start.
> 
> I use a grounded 18.5V 3A laptop power supply and a 5A voltage regulator for the FDD20. With the 2031 there is a fair amount of hum (more than I like), but it is not noticeable when playing music at moderate volume.




Hello Mordy...congrats on 2031!

The ECC31 hums! Your adapter is the culprit?

:rolleyes:


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Do you continue to use this DAP as a source for the Elise?


 

 The rig belongs to my son but since he's not using it much these days, I might 'borrow' it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The iMac has been great for me. I can listen to what I want. Besides the 'many' tracks I have ripped from my CDs as Apple Lossless files into iTunes and using Audirvana as player, I have also instant access to Tidal HiFi. I also have access to Spotify, Apple Music and Pandora but I hardly use them. This is the reason I feel no need to explore other players. I could even have use my Windows PC but I didn't, preferring the simplicity of the iMac. Besides it's a huge 27" gorgeous screen where I can also watch music videos on Tidal.


----------



## mordy

Just saw this - don't know about these headphones, but maybe somebody can use this information -  half price: (Beyerdynamic T5p Tesla) 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004C04P46?smid=A32I1S4LC0K7IA


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to the help and kindness of h1 and Suuup I am now a member of the 2031 club. Although new, the tubes sound great right from the start.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Mordy, I feel sad for you that you're experiencing hum (even slight ones) with some of the best tubes in my opinion. I have the Mazda on now with Chatham 6520 and I huddle my knees in delight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Prior to this, I was on 2 FDD20 and 2031 and those are phenomenal in sound. To this day, I have not experience any hum with any of my working tubes. Not a single sound...total silence. I'm indeed the luckiest Elise owner.
  
 I'd suggest 2 things. One you remove your Elise from the rack and test it in isolation from the other gear. I.e just use a source, Elise and your headphone, preferably in a spot away from your other equipment. Two if that still gives you hum with known good tubes and adapters, then maybe, just maybe your Elise might have loose resistor like nephilim.
  
 Just a thought. Again it could be none of the things I mentioned. I really wish that you have it resolve as this tube amp is incredible with those tubes on headphones when hum free.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Just saw this - don't know about these headphones, but maybe somebody can use this information -  half price: (Beyerdynamic T5p Tesla)
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004C04P46?smid=A32I1S4LC0K7IA


 

 Is the T5p a 'better' model than the T1 in Beyer's hierarchy of high end headphones? I know that's a vague question but you know what I mean.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Is the T5p a 'better' model than the T1 in Beyer's hierarchy of high end headphones? I know that's a vague question but you know what I mean.


 
 No. The T5p is the 'portable' version of the T1.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Is the T5p a 'better' model than the T1 in Beyer's hierarchy of high end headphones? I know that's a vague question but you know what I mean.


 

 Nope, T5p is a portable flagship that can be used even un-amped. T1 is the beter one, now T1 version 2 have some modified damping and driver frame and should have a sound signature more neutral.
  
 So to pair with Elise T1 is the good choice, to pair with IphoneXxx T5 is a better choice.


----------



## UntilThen

At @TomNC 's suggestion of writing a summary of the tubes I've tested so far, I probably will. I'm waiting on the Fivre 6N7G brown base and Visseaux 6N7G before I do that.
  
 While what I have tested and sampled are by no means any where near exhaustive, for me this will probably be it for now. Otherwise I'll keep spending on tubes whereas I could be trying another TOTL headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After the new year, I might have a go with the 6BL7GT just to hear for myself what this tube can do as drivers. As Mikelap use to say, there is no end lol. H1 will probably spring a surprise for us all with those EL3N. Also the quad set of tubes to try with those 2 in one adapters.
  
 At this point, I can convincingly say that the 6N7G, 6A6, ECC31 and FDD20 family of tubes *are in my opinion* the best there are for Elise. As for power tubes, my preference are for 5998, 6520, Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080...not forgetting the unpretentious GE 6AS7GA. I am on the lookout for a pair of GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## Suuup

Hey @UntilThen your review is on the front page! Congratulations man. It's well written!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> No. The T5p is the 'portable' version of the T1.


 


hpamdr said:


> Nope, T5p is a portable flagship that can be used even un-amped. T1 is the beter one, now T1 version 2 have some modified damping and driver frame and should have a sound signature more neutral.
> 
> So to pair with Elise T1 is the good choice, to pair with IphoneXxx T5 is a better choice.


 
 Thanks guys. We do have experts in Beyers headphones in our midst and that's really great.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Hey @UntilThen
> your review is on the front page! Congratulations man. It's well written!




Well done, indeed, UT!!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Hey @UntilThen your review is on the front page! Congratulations man. It's well written!


 

 Front page lol. My humble thanks to all for those kind words. As I said before, I wrote that just after I have gotten Elise. I wanted to do a summary review and impressions that is short and concise. Anything longer than 2 pages becomes tiring to read unless it's factual and captivating.
  
 With Elise and tubes, I feel it's important to capture your thoughts at the moment you sample it. Very often those 1st impressions don't change much even further down the track. Also what better time to capture it than when it is fresh in your mind.
  
 I would love to see @K4RL 's review to be up there too as there is a comparison with Crack with Speedball. I expect more of you to put up reviews there. There are a lot of good materials from all of you. So, please write a review.


----------



## Suuup

I've been so content with my Fivres and Mullard 6080 that I haven't been rolling much else since I got the Fivres. Just decided to put in my 5998's. Mmmh, they're so enjoyable too. The sound has a nice and full body now. Listening to One More Matinee by Mark Knopfler, I just leaned back in my chair, closed my eyes, and ENJOYED. I think a lot of people forget to ENJOY the music today. Music is often something people do, while doing other things. That's nice and all, I do it too. I just think it's important sometimes to lean back in your chair, and just enjoy the music as your primary thing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I've been so content with my Fivres and Mullard 6080 that I haven't been rolling much else since I got the Fivres. Just decided to put in my 5998's. Mmmh, they're so enjoyable too. The sound has a nice and full body now. Listening to One More Matinee by Mark Knopfler, I just leaned back in my chair, closed my eyes, and ENJOYED. I think a lot of people forget to ENJOY the music today. Music is often something people do, while doing other things. That's nice and all, I do it too. I just think it's important sometimes to lean back in your chair, and just enjoy the music as your primary thing.





I completely agree!! The hardest thing about all of this hobby, is "clearing the decks" so that you can - just sit back and devote your full time and attention to enjoying the glorious sound reproduction.



.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've been so content with my Fivres and Mullard 6080 that I haven't been rolling much else since I got the Fivres. Just decided to put in my 5998's. Mmmh, they're so enjoyable too. The sound has a nice and full body now. Listening to One More Matinee by Mark Knopfler, I just leaned back in my chair, closed my eyes, and ENJOYED. I think a lot of people forget to ENJOY the music today. Music is often something people do, while doing other things. That's nice and all, I do it too. I just think it's important sometimes to lean back in your chair, and just enjoy the music as your primary thing.


 

 It's true. I once read a writer say that the reason people strap on their headphone and listen to MP3 songs whilst doing house work is because the sound is so terrible, they needed to be occupied with other things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What you say is absolutely true. Sit back and just let the music wash over you. That way you can really appreciate not just the music but also the gear that brings you this marvellous tune. Music is God's gift to us. We're made to sing, whether we're divas or shower room singers doesn't matter.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's true. I once read a writer say that the reason people strap on their headphone and listen to MP3 songs whilst doing house work is because the sound is so terrible, they needed to be occupied with other things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I read the same thing! Not sure where though. Basically, since the gear 'regular' (i.e. those who buy Apple earplugs etc.) people use is of such a bad quality, their minds don't feel the music alone is enough to occupy them. They need more stimulation.
  
 Listening to Mark Knopfler, the increased bottom-end with the 5998 is very much appreciated. The Aune + Mullard 6080 had a nice bottom end too, but since I had to let the Aune go, I've been missing it a bit. It's nice that I can just pop in my 5998 to get it back. The sacrifice, however, is the treble. This is very obvious when I swap out Mark Knopfler with Van the Man. Into the Mystic just isn't anywhere near as good on the 5998's as it is on the Mullards. It's actually a VERY noticeable difference. Vans voice seems to drown in under the bass and guitar, as does the horns and piano. 
  
 There's comfort to be found though. Since I like different tubes for different songs, it means I haven't wasted my money on all my tubes. They're all (almost all) getting some burn time, depending on what music I'm listening to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 As an unrelated side note, I finally got one of those 'wallet-thickeners', so there might be more tubes in my future!


----------



## Suuup

Just ordered a pair of Fivre 53, AKA CV2535. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rara-53-CV2535-FIVRE-Made-in-ITALY-tube-valve-/262156288521?hash=item3d09bb8209:g:SWIAAOSwwbdWKgT4.
  
 Fivre is quickly becoming my favorite brand of tubes. 
  
 I haven't found any adapters on Ebay for those, so I'll have to try and make my own. Should be fun.


----------



## Suuup

Ah, Mark Knopfler has such a beautiful living room. How do I know? Let me tell you how. I closed my eyes, and was instantly transported through space and time - by my 5998's, Fivre 6N7G's, and Elise - directly into Mark Knopflers living room, where he was playing Old Pigweed. It's so nice, sitting in his chair, listening to him sing and play guitar.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 Hmmm,  Fivre 53, AKA CV2535: 7pin, 2.5V, 2A dual triode - unchartered waters?


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> Hmmm,  Fivre 53, AKA CV2535: 7pin, 2.5V, 2A dual triode - unchartered waters?


 
 That's the idea. Want to try something new. It's supposed to be the predecessor of the 6A6, which itself is the predecessor of 6N7G. I guess you could say it's the grandfather of the 6N7G, a tube I very much love.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Good luck Pathfinder....and the adventures of Elise in Wonderland continues.


 
  
 Ah well UT, luck does indeed seem to be with me at the moment - success at the first attempt, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Pic and (ridiculously early!) first impression below...
  


suuup said:


> Be sure to update us - preferably with pictures! Really looking forward to the outcome of your adventure.


 
  
 Your wish is my command, S....
  

  
 IT WORKS, LOL!!...*BUT*...although delivering much more drive than I ever imagined, it is, of course, no match for the ECC31!
 Lifting the left can away from the ear a bit and upping the volume gives a better idea of what's entering my right, and although it's _much_ too early to get any real idea, there's definitely not the same degree of FDD20 initial WOW...(but then, wasn't really expecting it - have never before been so amazed by a tube at such an early stage as the FDD!).
  
 My initial listen was also dampened somewhat by using the HD650s as guinea pig, rather than the T1s!.._*.but*_, the ECC31 also sounded rather lacklustre - until I plugged in the Beyers...what a difference!! No wonder I love these T1s...the darker ECCs *need* such cans, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The EL3N also sprang into life - but more like the 31 than the FDD. So my suspicion is that this new tube may just veer more towards the warmer side of things...which, like the ECC31, could well need the added sparkle of the FDD20 - but which, of course, cannot be, due to the massive difference in gain! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (now *two* EL3Ns per driver might just be the ticket, lol!...mmmmm....).
 However, at the moment this is all academic really, as things could well change dramatically of course, with a good burn-in and with TWO (not the four, yet!) EL3Ns in place...(this will probably have _me_ thrown out the house as well very soon!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...anyone got a spare room, lol?!!).
 Anyway, watch this space...
  


mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to the help and kindness of h1 and Suuup I am now a member of the 2031 club. Although new, the tubes sound great right from the start.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Mordy...glad you like the tubes already - they've hardly any time on them at all yet...so just you wait, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But _really_ sad to hear you have the dreaded hum...both tubes were deathly silent when tested in my amp, so there's definitely something going on in your setup/room.
 So yes, you must try it in another location, assuming your other *adapters* are all OK. But it does still sound like possibly a grounding issue of some sort...or EMI/RFI...or...!!! I do hope you manage to resolve it soon - can't have anything spoiling the glory of Elise *at all!!!*
  


suuup said:


> Just ordered a pair of Fivre 53, AKA CV2535. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rara-53-CV2535-FIVRE-Made-in-ITALY-tube-valve-/262156288521?hash=item3d09bb8209:g:SWIAAOSwwbdWKgT4.
> 
> Fivre is quickly becoming my favorite brand of tubes.
> 
> I haven't found any adapters on Ebay for those, so I'll have to try and make my own. Should be fun.


 
  
 Hi Suuup..."fun"?...yeah - of the *wrong* sort, very often I fear lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But congrats on taking the challenge...there sure is a sense of achievement _when_ things go right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
 GOOD LUCK!


jazzvinyl said:


> I completely agree!! The hardest thing about all of this hobby, is "clearing the decks" so that you can - just sit back and devote your full time and attention to enjoying the glorious sound reproduction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well JV...now you know why most of my precious 'Elise time' is at the run up to midnight, when a certain someone is (or _should_ be!) fast asleep, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Ah well UT, luck does indeed seem to be with me at the moment - *success at the first attempt*, lol!


 
 H1, that in bold is all I read lol. I must say it looks very pretty on Elise. 2 of those red tubes will be a knockout.
  
 Just curious, with your T1 and those tubes, what volume level did you have to turn up to for your usual sound level listen? Also you're saying that the EL3N is softer than the ECC31 due to the lower gain right? So I'm wondering what if you have 2 EL3N there ..what volume do you have to crank up to? 
  
 If... and here's the big if...the EL3N sound as good as the ECC31 and it's a lot cheaper...and if a reasonable volume level can provide a satisfying listen then the EL3N are a viable alternative. Of course as you said, it's too early to tell. So I'll leave you to play around with it at your leisure. Don't want you to be thrown out of the house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P/S if you do get thrown out, you can come visit me in Sydney.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, that in bold is all I read lol. I must say it looks very pretty on Elise. 2 of those red tubes will be a knockout.
> 
> Just curious, with your T1 and those tubes, what volume level did you have to turn up to for your usual sound level listen? Also you're saying that the EL3N is softer than the ECC31 due to the lower gain right? So I'm wondering what if you have 2 EL3N there ..what volume do you have to crank up to?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...well, to say I'm gobsmacked is an understatement, lol! How on earth can just 5 hrs or so make such a difference? This EL3N is already sounding a completely different tube..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. No hint of 'dullness' now - where did this treble come from?! And even though the ECC31 is obviously providing more bass with the higher volume level, I hear more coming from the new tube as well...and in fact the _apparent_ difference in gain is now nothing like it was a few hours ago - I'm now almost back to my usual 10 or 11o'clock level, with just a slight less coming from the EL. The bass at the moment is actually even _more _stupendous than 2031 or 2x FDD20s, as are the mids. If 2x EL3Ns can pull off this trick, then I think you _might_ just have found another unsung hero, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...that the Elise can make shine, at least!...
  
 Treble doesn't _quite_ match the FDD20 _yet_, but if this tube carries on developing the way it has already in such a short time, then I'm really hopeful. The same goes for soundstage...needs to open out just a bit more to be to my liking, but again, this is sure to do so given a good few more hours.
  
 And so, if all these things do indeed develop a bit more - and cannot for the life of me see how this could _not_ happen - I honestly suspect these EL3Ns could very well surpass the ECC31...and even be hot on the heels of the FDD20!...truly amazing...
  
 ps. Even while listening this past hour these changes are noticeable already...along with a further narrowing of the L/R volume gap - how can this happen, even if I'm getting the full 19 gain from the EL compared to the 33ish of the ECC31??!!...(anything to do with self-adjusting bias at all? Or is there a fancy job of equalising output levels hiding somewhere inside Elise? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Ah well, I hear my bed calling...or is it a certain someone shouting "where are you, for Heaven's sake"?!!
  
 So once again I am in total awe of what this amp can do...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Goodnight all...
  
 ps. Just might be needing to take you up on that offer of a visit lol!!


----------



## mordy

Not to be outdone by the CV2535 and the EL3N, here is another of the "endless possibilities":
  




  
 The surgical precision and clarity of the 6BL7 and the warm, lush, bassy FDD20. But, does it blend? The amplification factor is almost double of the FDD20 compared to the 6BL7. What about the sound stage? 1943 vs 1963? ST vs GT? US vs Italy? Camaro vs Lambo?
  
 I think that I got carried away a little LOL....
  
 Here are the answers to the questions raised:
  
 Yes, it does blend, with one caveat. One channel is noticeably louder than the other (expected). By adjusting the balance control I can get a stable centered image. And surprise, it is a coherent and wide sound stage - no complaints at all.
  
 First impression is very enjoyable and exciting. Need more time to evaluate, but so far this works well. (Don't know if it will for headphones if you don't have a balance control).
  
  
 When it rains it pours - a package arrived from Langrex with two Mullard 6080 tubes. These are factory B-stock with an almost invisible halfway crack in the surface of the metal surround at one point where it was crimped to the Bakelite.
  




  
 If I did not know to look for it, I would not have picked it up.
  
 Langrex told me that they would send me a matched pair. Don't know how to interpret the numbers 65/68 and 67/68 on one tube, and 68/69 and 61/63 on the other. Anybody?
  
 Then we have the codes: Both say AJ1 and underneath R6E5 and R6F2.
  
  




  




  
 Here is a try at the date codes: Mitcham factory 1966, May, week 5 and Blackburn 1966 June, week 2. Tried to use this guide:
 http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
 "Here is an example of a Mullard Blackburn, UK factory date code:




 The first line is rX2. rX is the tube type for a 6BQ5 or EL84. 2 is the change code, probably a 2nd production run with updates from run #1. On the second line is B2J5. The B is Blackburn, UK Mullard factory, the 2 is 1962, the J is October, and the 5 is the 5th week of the month."
  
 I assume that overtime facilitated a fifth work week in Mitcham LOL.
  
 Calling upon our Finnish tube expert Oskari for a clarification (if you don't mind).
  
 How do the tubes sound? Just plugged them in - splendid from the first second. Stay tuned.


----------



## UntilThen

I log on to get 2 surprises and almost fell off my chair. !!!
  
 Well H1, what you're discovering there is very contagious and I have a hunch the EL3Ns are going to be the new great kid on the block. Truly amazing with what you're getting in such a short time. I think we haven't seen the best of Elise yet with regards to tubes. Pity our wallets and our sanity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh my goodness Mordy. Who would have thought to pair the 6BL7 with FDD20 but I can feel your excitement from here. Just goes to show what a little creativity can produce. Those Mullard 6080 looks the real deal. That tiny hairline crack is nothing and I think you got yourself a real bargain. Mullard 6080 sounds to me to have excellent treble extension. Very clear and sweet. Mid range is another forte of those tubes. Those are the 2 attributes that stand out when I first listen to them. Bass initially sound very tight and controlled. A very hi fi kind of bass. Gradually it opens up and now whenever I put on those tubes, the bass from it are very powerful when called for. Overall though I still find it 'brighter' compared to the Chatham 6AS7G. There is no better or worst in those 2 power tubes. I think it will be useful in different situations and depending on personal preference.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm very content with the Mazda 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G and 6A6, Visseaux 6A6, FDD20 and ECC31 now. Everyday it's a tough decision picking which tube to use for my music. Differences are subtle but for some it's quite obvious. As a result I find myself quite lethargic to pursue other tubes. I'm in a state of total contentment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I just put on the Mazda 6N7g and Chatham 6520. While listening to Wars of the World, I felt I needed a bit more bass and warm on this occasion. So I swap to my HD650 and bingo, it's perfection.   So I can tailor the sound using tubes or headphones. For pure music listening I find the 'lost' of some details in the HD650 not a problem for me. It has a fuller sound and very nice mid bass.
  
 I just notice that there's a change to Tidal. Previously all songs play at 16/44.1 but now after I restart my iMac, the songs are playing at 192khz. Have they already bump up to hi-res?


----------



## UntilThen

Wow woke up from a nap, put on 2031 and 5998. I have not use HD650 with this setup for a while and now I press play on Wars of the World. The skies turn red, the seas parted and dolphins started singing. This is indeed king of the dynamic headphone. Sorry HD800, I have to borrow your crown for an hour.
  
 I am now a firm believer that HD650 scales with great amplification and the most gorgeous tubes. 2031 and 5998 plus HD650 is just dynamite. I'm spinning this next.
Gillan/Glover/Lord/Paice/Blackmore ...classic rock that comes alive with this setup. Hang on to your HD650...there will never be another like it.
  
Sorry video and music not in sync but it's free so can't complain. Listen to it on Tidal. When A Blind Man Cries is really good too. So is Soldier Of Fortune.


----------



## DecentLevi

hmmm I thought you said the dual FDD20 pairs better with HD-650


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> hmmm I thought you said the dual FDD20 pairs better with HD-650


 

 My ears are now tuned to HE560 and I love the details and clarity with dual shotgun FDD20 but now with HD650, you can sell all your headphones and buy 6 HD650 instead. Hang on, head bobbing frantically to Highway Stars.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  2 heads, one for each FDD20. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Omg Smoke On The Water...I can see smoke literally. DL, you have no idea what awaits you. Forget ss amp, this is IT.
  
 It's true I prefer HD650 with 2 FDD20 but with 2031, it's quite magic too. ECC31 shall sit in my drawer for you mate when your ready. Just make sure if you don't have 5998, get the GE 6AS7GA instead. Someone branded GE 6AS7GA wrongly. It should have been 5999 instead.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok have on 2 FDD20 and GE 6AS7GA with HD650. Those tubes stood to attention and started marching like Russian soldiers. Ever seen them march? This is the real deal. 
  
 For this price:-
  
 2 FDD20 - 44 euros
 2 GE 6AS7GA - $22
  
 Colour me anything !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Wow woke up from a nap, put on 2031 and 5998. I have not use HD650 with this setup for a while and now I press play on Wars of the World. The skies turn red, the seas parted and dolphins started singing. This is indeed king of the dynamic headphone. Sorry HD800, I have to borrow your crown for an hour.
> 
> I am now a firm believer that HD650 scales with great amplification and the most gorgeous tubes. 2031 and 5998 plus HD650 is just dynamite. I'm spinning this next.
> [COLOR=333333]Gillan/Glover/Lord/Paice/Blackmore ...classic rock that comes alive with this setup. Hang on to your HD650...there will never be another like it.[/COLOR]
> ...




Funny! We just played the Deep Purple Machine Head, LP!!

And have the Young/Stills LP: "Long May She Run" playing now...

Am running the table through "RIAA curve cartridge preamp" to Elise as regular Preamp, then out to my "Heavy Metal Jam" speaker:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1163027-REG/jam_hx_p920_heavy_metal_speaker_20w_8_hours_playtime.html

Were using 2x ECC31 as drivers, which I LOVE via headphones but a little dull via the speaker, so we tried 2x FDD20, a little too bright, then popped in the 2x C3gS and JUST RIGHT! We are loving it, as we wrap Christmas presents etc,,,

That's whats great about tubes....TUNABLE for the occasion!!!

Cheers to us, the LUCKY ones!!



.


----------



## UntilThen

You must be thinking about me JV. I'll roll C3G next with GE 6AS7GA.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> You must be thinking about me JV. I'll roll C3G next with GE 6AS7GA.




Right-o! 

Don't forget the sonic beauty of C3gS - we need to round up Suuup, some adapters.

Also...speaker shines with Mullard 6080 more than with 5998's...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Right-o!
> 
> Don't forget the sonic beauty of C3gS - we need to round up Suuup, some adapters.
> 
> Also...speaker shines with Mullard 6080 more than with 5998's...


 

 Heresy they shine better with 5999 !!!
  
 I'll tell Suuup that I'll trade my seasoned Lorenz C3G for his Siemens C3Gs. 
  
 Hmmm I did loose some details with 5999 instead of 5998. Guess you can't expect 5999 to perform same as 5998.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Mullard 6080's make magic of the mids...and why they are the cat's meow


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I'll have what you're having and this is it. They sound AMAZING. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My Mullard seems to have put on muscles. They sound FULL now. !!!  Ooo yeah Smoke On The Water is great with this and HD650.
  
 Will I wear out my sockets? I'm changing tubes like no body's business. Sockets seem very sturdy. Like immovable.
  
 Head bobbing and feet tapping now. Thanks JV, you da man.
  
 Behold C3G and Mullard 6080.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Bob Dylan LP..."Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid" is playing....the one w/Knock Knock Knockin' on Heaven's Door....

Mama, put my guns in the ground
I can't shoot them anymore
That long black cloud is comin' down
I feel like I'm knockin' on heaven's door

Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door
Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door
Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door
Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door

Sounds SOOOOOOO GOOD on LP, no DAC, baby!


----------



## UntilThen

Oh man, 'Knocking on heavens door' is my favourite. I can't shoot them anymore.....what a simple 4 chords song that has been sung by every singer and wannabe. 
  
 Just so you know, your turntable needs a deck.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Oh man, 'Knocking on heavens door' is my favourite. I can't shoot them anymore.....what a simple 4 chords song that has been sung by every singer and wannabe.
> 
> Just so you know, your turntable needs a deck. :bigsmile_face:




Yeah but nobody did it as well as Bob 

needs a whaaaaaat? :rolleyes:


I love my deckless table(s) and my 2000 LP's


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yeah but nobody did it as well as Bob
> 
> needs a whaaaaaat


 

 I'm listening to Randy Crawford's version now...ummmm she can sing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Some say Guns & Roses butchered it but I thought they sound good with knockin' 
 Eric Clapton's version is good too.
 Have you heard Sticky Fingers' version?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm listening to Randy Crawford's version now...ummmm she can sing.
> Some say Guns & Roses butchered it but I thought they sound good with knockin'
> Eric Clapton's version is good too.
> Have you heard Sticky Fingers' version? :bigsmile_face:




Never heard of Sticky Fingers and wow...never heard the others' versions, save for Clapton's!

Will look up Crawfords', I'm sure hers is excellent!


----------



## UntilThen

I am listening to Guns&Roses version now. I think I can sing like Axl Rose.


----------



## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> hmmm I thought you said the dual FDD20 pairs better with HD-650


 

 For me DL, ECC31, FDD20 tubes are bass oriented and to my experience i prefer to use 6080 or 6AS7GA as power tubes instead of 5998 which add even more bass and warm sound which IMO is too much for HD650. Yes HD650 pairs wonderfully with Elise and is a great !
  
 I use mine for sooth jazz, acoustic pop  and baroque favourites. Even it it less detailed than T1 for easy/relaxing listening session i use HD650.
  
 But when I'm ready for a more detailed listening i put 5998/ECC31 and T1 cans.....
  
 Ater exitation of quick tube rolling with Elise i did start exclusively listening music 
  
 Since last two weeks I'm digging on my recording collection and rediscover some title and spend less time for tube rolling and adapter building....
 And AS said by Suup With Elise it is easy to  enjoy music *Simply enjoy with large smile*.
  
 Some Live session of Chet Baker, old recording of Peter, Paul and Mary, Jacques Brel, Brassen, Randy Newman, Angelo Branduardi, Helen Merill, Double Six,.... Each time new details pops out and is it like having new recording or like discovering hidden treasure.


----------



## UntilThen

My ideal setup:-  (Yes in that order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) You can take this as a guide but your ears are the best judge.
  
 Option 1 - HD650

2 FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080.          
2031 with Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080. 
Mazda 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G or 6A6, Visseaux 6N7G or 6A6 with Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080. This setup will be brighter than the 1st 2.
C3G with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998
Any good 6SN7 or 7N7 with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998.
  
 Option 2 - HE560 (I think it's quite safe to park HD800 and T1 here too)

2 FDD20 with 5998
2031 with 5998
2 ECC31 with 5998
Mazda 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G or 6A6, Visseausx 6N7G or 6A6 with 5998
C3G with 5998
  
 Can substitute 5998 for GEC 6AS7G or WE 421A or even Tung Sol 7236.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> My ideal setup:-  (Yes in that order.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm surprised to find the 6N7G below 2x ECC31. Is that really the case? I greatly prefer even my Joybringers over my ECC31 with 5998 as powers.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm surprised to find the 6N7G below 2x ECC31. Is that really the case? I greatly prefer even my Joybringers over my ECC31 with 5998 as powers.


 

 This is the case of preferences changing over time for me. On a recent visit to 2 ECC31, I find I like it a lot with 5998 and HE560. If you recall, I scored ECC31 9.8, the same as those No. 4 tubes. So in my books they are in the same category of preference for me with the ECC31 just nudging out the French and Italian tubes.
  
 Even right now using 2 ECC31 with 5998, I'm greatly enjoying Richard Clayderman's piano pieces. Treble that I once find muted are now very fresh and clear. Mid and bass has always been ECC31 strong points. ECC31 has a warmer tone for me. Bass on the ECC31 is very satisfying. In my DV336se days, I like warm tones a lot. Then it shifted to brighter tones with the arrival of the French and Italian tubes.
  
 These tubes greatly appeal to me. All of them. I will never be selling any of these. Mullard, Mazda, Fivre, Visseaux, Philips Miniwatt. They are my prized possessions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't expect everyone on this thread to have my exact order of preferences in the list I post above. This clearly shows us as individuals with slightly differing taste but overall we still have a common love for this family of tubes. I'm not even surprised if you have other tubes in the list.
  
 P/S another thing is that my tubes are getting more burn in now and that greatly influence the sound and my changing preference. Also mood. When I'm moody, I like a warmer and darker tone.


----------



## UntilThen

I smile when I remember how much nephilim love the ECC31 and 5998. He bought 2 pairs of each. That's a lot of money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ECC31 and 5998 is now rosy warm with Leonard Cohen. Man, I never get tired of listening to Leonard.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup did you notice any change to Tidal HiFi sound since yesterday? My DAC is now showing 192khz for every song that I play. It used to be 16/44.1khz.


----------



## UntilThen

Where is Mr. @aqsw. I need his detail impressions of LCD2.2 with Elise, especially now that he has the 2031. Hopefully he has taken care of the hum problem.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey UT...have I caught you still up?...I do hope so!
  
 Have managed to get your EL3N done (in record time, lol!), so now Elise is _doubly_ pretty...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Thought I was gonna be in trouble though...gentle shaking had something sounding loose inside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but thankfully it works fine at the moment - some 'tinkle' as it warms up and cools down, but hopefully this will subside as time goes by...
  
 First impressions?...again, not really fair, but certainly not the thunderous bass of the ECC31, alas...just hope it develops a good bit more, because everything else is *first class* already -  like the FDD20, reminding me of the C3G...which is no bad thing!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Now _your_ tube (with 'Miniwatt' on it), just as with the FDD20, has 'sparkle' right from the off, whereas my first (without said extra) took time to appear...interesting, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 This pairing has wonderful clarity and detail, especially in the treble and _upper_ bass/lower mids, with a soundstage very much like the FDD20 - at the moment, of course!
  
 All in all, a _very_ impressive tube, and possibly another giant-killer...but much more time needed yet, naturally (boding well, however!).
 Mind you, the tragedy of course is _there aren't any adapters available__!!_...but for anyone with the necessary skills - or courage! - this could well be another marvellous choice...especially with that brilliant source of tubes you mentioned, UT!
  
 So living in hope that the bass can approach the ECC31, or else I suspect 2031 (for me) will not be superceded, lol!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Will keep y'all posted...
  
 Edit...ps. Silly me, forgot the pic!...


----------



## UntilThen

Ooooo ... exciting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's your tube now buddy. I'm surprised the Miniwatt sounded good straight away. What volume level with the 2 EL3N? I don't particularly need thunderous bass. As long as it's impactful and controlled. 
  
 Now this is what I LIKE:-
  
*This pairing has wonderful clarity and detail, especially in the treble and upper bass/lower mids, with a soundstage very much like the FDD20 - at the moment, of course!*


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Ooooo ... exciting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yo UT...she stays here now, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...mille grazie!...
  
 Yes, strange coincidence re 'Miniwatt' labelled and _non-labelled_!
  
 At the moment I'd say volume level is more 11o'clock than a more normal 10 o'clock...had expected to have to go past 12 o'clock, so I'm VERY (pleasantly!) surprised, to say the least...
  
 ps. Hope you caught my late pic addition to my last post, lol..


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...she stays here now, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ooooooooo I want   Soooooo preeeetie  !!!   11 o'clock is very acceptable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The seller responded to me on 2 EL3N (NOS) on 30th Nov.2015...
  
*quantity description*
 2 EL3N Philips NOS                                                             total Euro 33,06
 1 World, traceable, insured (< € 500,-), < 2 Kg                            Euro 25,60

                                                                                               
                                                                                          Total =  € 58,66 



  
 This is their description of EL3N on their website:-
*Connected as triode this is "the" perfect driver for a 2A3 or 300B SE amplifier, amazing sound.*


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Langrex told me that they would send me a matched pair. Don't know how to interpret the numbers 65/68 and 67/68 on one tube, and 68/69 and 61/63 on the other. Anybody?


 
  
 There seems to be one somewhat weaker triode there. If you don't hear it, it's not a problem.
  


> Then we have the codes: Both say AJ1 and underneath R6E5 and R6F2.
> 
> Here is a try at the date codes: Mitcham factory 1966, May, week 5 and Blackburn 1966 June, week 2.


 
  
 Surely they are both from Mitcham. You got the dates right but the logo should be later than that. So, either the print is more recent than 1966 or those must be 1976 tubes.
  


> I assume that overtime facilitated a fifth work week in Mitcham LOL.


 
  
 There must be some months with five weeks. Otherwise you can't fit enough weeks in 12 months.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup did you notice any change to Tidal HiFi sound since yesterday? My DAC is now showing 192khz for every song that I play. It used to be 16/44.1khz.


 
 Haven't noticed anything, no. My Asus has no display and I haven't been able to hear a difference, though I haven't used Tidal much today. For some reason, Tidal is missing a lot of Mark Knopflers albums, and I'm currently going through all of his stuff again. Luckily, I have his CD's. 
  
 Since morning I've been listening to Sailing to Philadelphia. Now, after dinner, I'm listening to Golden Heart. I prefer Sailing to Philadelphia over Golden Heart, but I adore them both.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Haven't noticed anything, no. My Asus has no display and I haven't been able to hear a difference, though I haven't used Tidal much today. For some reason, Tidal is missing a lot of Mark Knopflers albums, and I'm currently going through all of his stuff again. Luckily, I have his CD's.
> 
> Since morning I've been listening to Sailing to Philadelphia. Now, after dinner, I'm listening to Golden Heart. I prefer Sailing to Philadelphia over Golden Heart, but I adore them both.


 
 I didn't hear any change in sound quality too from Tidal, even though it's showing 192khz on my DAC. Tidal HiFi indeed sound very good. Going back to Spotify Premium you hear the difference immediately.
  
 From 2 ECC31 and 5998, I've gone to Fivre 6A6 and 5998 and I can see why you like your Visseaux 6N7G more than ECC31. It's more forward sounding and very clear treble and midrange. Excellent bass too. As I said I like them all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now H1 is getting me all excited about EL3N.
  
 I love 'Water of love' by Dire Straits.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I didn't hear any change in sound quality too from Tidal, even though it's showing 192khz on my DAC. Tidal HiFi indeed sound very good. Going back to Spotify Premium you hear the difference immediately.
> 
> From 2 ECC31 and 5998, I've gone to Fivre 6A6 and 5998 and I can see why you like your Visseaux 6N7G more than ECC31. It's more forward sounding and very clear treble and midrange. Excellent bass too. As I said I like them all.
> 
> ...


 
 Just swapped out my Fivre 6N7G - for the first time in over a week - with my ECC31's. Mark Knopflers lovely baritone voice is now buttery smooth. With the Fivres it's more crispy. 
  
 2x ECC31 is certainly very enjoyable - it depends entirely on my mood and the music. 
  
 The treble on the ECC31's is smooth as velvet, but it's unfortunately way too recessed for my taste.


----------



## mordy

Tube mathematics?:
  
 19/33 = 5.5/2
  
 6BL7/ECC31 = 5998/6080
  
 6BL7/5998 =ECC31/6080
  
 Hypothesis: A driver tube with lower gain paired with a power tube with higher gain will produce similar volume to a driver tube with higher gain paired with a power tube of lower gain.
  
 2 x 19 = 38 (not 33)
  
 1/2 of 5.5 = 2.75 (not 2)
  
 (The 6BL7 has a gain of 19, the ECC31 a gain of 33, the 6080 a gain of 2, and the 5998 a gain of 5.5.)
  
 Preliminary findings: This combination yields a super wide sound stage with sound emanating from outside of the speakers on some recordings. The presentation is very clear with excellent bass and very good treble. Good depth.
 I am able to center the sound image by moving the balance control only a small amount off center (needed to move it much more with same gain power tubes using the above tube complement).
 But not sure if the sound stage is completely coherent in one continuum.
  
 As far as the volume is concerned for each channel, this works pretty well. BUT, the sound stage does not sound right - the dreaded two halves that do not mesh together seamlessly. The center of the recording moves with me as I move my listening chair between the speakers. A creepy effect....
  
 In sum, I am better off with an identical pair of power tubes and the balance control set much more off center to get a central sound image. This results in a coherent continuous sound stage.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Ooooooooo I want   Soooooo preeeetie  !!!   11 o'clock is very acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know, I know UT...I really shouldn't tease folks with tubes that unfortunately are not really viable for most - at least this time it is *you* who are to blame, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...by the way, meant to ask you before : how did you come across this beauty?...
  
 And re. the bass, I hear you concerning impact etc., but I have to admit that although I never was one to bother _too_ much about _quantity_, now that I have tasted (nay, _gorged on!_) the ECC31's bass, I'm afraid I just cannot settle for any less, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(mind you, the way these EL3Ns are coming along, one of them _might  _just be able to keep up with a 31 - "your" tube does seem to have a tad more gain than the other...which isn't really surprising, as no 2 tubes are (hardly) ever going to be totally identical anyway!). Actually, I've just had a brainwave - I have a GEC/Osram A1834 that has one plate weaker than the other....perhaps this might just even things up a bit. Not to mention allow me to actually be able to use the darned thing!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so a 3N/31 just might be on the cards after all!...mmmmmm.....
  
 Thought there had to be a catch somewhere re. those tubes at 33 Euros...no need whatsoever for such a high shipping cost, IMHO...shame, really...However, still not a bad price compared to what some are_ trying_ to charge, lol!
  
 And nice to see another rave impression of this tube, UT..."the" perfect driver?...they obviously never tried the FDD20!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW...congrats on all the positive comments to your review...WELL DONE once again, mon ami.... CHEERS!!


----------



## nephilim

Guys, I really enjoy reading all the latest findings... but the long wait for hum-free #11 is beginning to become a major pain... If I will not get it back next week, I will jump into the car and pick it up in Poland. It's just a 5h drive


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> Guys, I really enjoy reading all the latest findings... but the long wait for hum-free #11 is beginning to become a major pain... If I will not get it back next week, I will jump into the car and pick it up in Poland. It's just a 5h drive


 
  
 Yes indeed neph...the torture must be unbearable, lol! Sorry if we've been rubbing it in!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(5hrs drive?...yoiks! You should have given yourself a nice long weekend break in Poland, my friend - what stopped you??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(you could have sent us some nice photos of Lukasz and the Feliks establishment, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...sigh...).
  
 Whatever, I really do hope she's with you _very _soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Keep the faith!...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I really shouldn't tease folks with tubes that unfortunately are not really viable for most


 
  
 I think you should!


----------



## aqsw

I tried my Feliks Elise as a pre amp to the LC. Within ten minutes my LC lights were all flashing, and the amp was hotter than a class A amp. Shut it down, let her cool.
 Unplugged the Elise from the LC. Not sure what went wrong , but I'm not going to try that again.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> I think you should!


 
  
 Never thought you were that cruel, O...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(perhaps you should find me another tube to try, then....on second thoughts..*please, NO!!!*








...


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Where is Mr. @aqsw
> . I need his detail impressions of LCD2.2 with Elise, especially now that he has the 2031. Hopefully he has taken care of the hum problem.




Grandaughters xmas recitl last night, office xmas party tonight. I'll get back to you on the weekend.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I know, I know UT...I really shouldn't tease folks with tubes that unfortunately are not really viable for most - at least this time it is *you* who are to blame, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Again 'discovering' the EL3N' is a fluke. One day everyone in the thread was complaining about Mazda 6N7G being unavailable on eBay. So I decide to help and join in the search. I type in 'Mazda' and specify worldwide and it produce a long list of Mazda tubes. After scanning through many pages, I saw this solo red tube EL3N. It's branded Mazda. So I decide to post that picture on this thread, saying that I have found a red Mazda. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seeing the positive results you're getting, you should buy a pair of EL3N Philips NOS at 33 euros. Shipping has always been high for me, as Australia is in the centre of the world. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This seller is in the Netherlands, so not that far from you. It is genuine stock because it is linked to by the DIYer who was showcasing his EL3N single ended amplifier. That's where he bought it from. The seller also sells exotic audio gear and has a real company name. He sells *Lundahl output transformers, as well as Yamamoto stuff, Audio Note kits, Jensen, EAR-Yoshino phono preamp and integrated amp, etc. This is not a fly by night operator.*
  
 Ok he also sells this which Suuup will be interested. African Ebony !!!. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*Yamamoto, *PB-9 and PB-10

The PB-9 & 10 are beautifully crafted African Ebony tone/isolation pucks with male points (PB-9) and female indentations (PB-10) that are designed to couple together under your gear and utilize the superior tonal qualities of African Ebony to maintain that exquisite tone you paid for.
  

  
  
 I'll PM you the seller's website. I've ordered a pair to sit in front of my monitor so I can admire it while I pester you every single day and night to make me those adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Omg they are reading my review. See you bye.....UNTIL THEN.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Grandaughters xmas recitl last night, office xmas party tonight. I'll get back to you on the weekend.


 

 Ok aqsw, I'm eagerly awaiting the weekend or I'll be coming to Canada.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Again 'discovering' the EL3N' is a fluke. One day everyone in the thread was complaining about Mazda 6N7G being unavailable on eBay. So I decide to help and join in the search. I type in 'Mazda' and specify worldwide and it produce a long list of Mazda tubes. After scanning through many pages, I saw this solo red tube EL3N. It's branded Mazda. So I decide to post that picture on this thread, saying that I have found a red Mazda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...do you ever sleep?!!
  
 Anyway, better make sure you're seated, and with a brandy or 2 to hand...'cos, with just less than 20hrs on the first EL3N and only 8 on the second*...C3G'S', ECC31, FDD20 and 2031 are HISTORY!!!*
  
 I fear I must eat my words...that statement you quoted re. "the" perfect driver, etc. etc. could actually have a whole lot o' truth in it.
 As I sit here _trying_ to write, I don't know whether to laugh or cry - with sheer amazement and joy, lol!...was I a tad concerned about bass quantity? Silly me...should have known better! Already these tubes are surpassing not just the FDDs _*but also the ECC31!*_...I know, I know - impossible I hear you say...but it's absolutely true. And not just quantity, but with immaculate control; tremendous detail; impact solid as a rock; speed...you name it! And from sub-bass right through to upper...I am in Heaven, lol!
  
 Mids?...again, the others don't come near - I kid you not. Tonal range - as with the bass - is phenomenal. Annie Lennox's voice in "No more I love yous" has just sent shivers up and down my spine...much more so than ever before (and I must have listened to it a hundred times at least!). Instruments are giving tones and colours I never guessed could be there.
  
 Treble is a combination of ECC31 sweetness with the greater energy and sparkle of the C3g (but without the occasional harshness) and the FDD20.
  
 Pace, rhythm and timing are all 'there', with wonderful overall control and balance.
  
 Soundstage is opening very nicely indeed, and neither too forward nor too distant...intimate without being 'in your face'.
  
 The overall presentation is one of tremendous (controlled) power, but with added finesse.
  
 Need I say more?...I think y'all must have got the picture by now, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I am now firmly of the mind that 'Elise' may not actually be the correct name for this amp...it should really be *MERLIN!*...because what this machine can do is nothing short of magical. I never believed it could be taken to even greater heights than we have recently achieved...I only wish the Feliks guys could hear this sound - they, like me, would surely not believe it possible...(time to have Lukasz scratching his head again, poor chap! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Anyway, I'd better let my good lady know I haven't _totally_ deserted her, and _try_ at least to get some shuteye - trouble is I'm still up there in the clouds...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Goodnight all...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> The PB-9 & 10 are beautifully crafted African Ebony tone/isolation pucks with male points (PB-9) and female indentations (PB-10) that are designed to couple together under your gear and utilize the superior tonal qualities of African Ebony to maintain that exquisite tone you paid for.


 
  
 As funny as that is... and no, I did not pay for it. Some people shouldn't be allowed to breed. Nor breath.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...do you ever sleep?!!
> 
> Anyway, better make sure you're seated, and with a brandy or 2 to hand...'cos, with just less than 20hrs on the first EL3N and only 8 on the second*...C3G'S', ECC31, FDD20 and 2031 are HISTORY!!!*


 
  
 YEEHAAAAA !!!!!!!
  
 ....the EL3N is 6.3V 0.9A and does not need an external power supply. How good is that?!!! 
  
 Sleep at 11:37am? Who needs sleep.
  
 Ok calm down hypnos1. Don't loose it before you make me those adapters lol. Omg I'm glad I ordered a pair of those red ones. I'm listening to Fivre 6N7G with 5998 and just telling myself how good this combo sounds when your post came through. How is it possible? That the EL3N would sound so good in Elise? Ok I need to come to England now to see you.
  
 I'm pouring myself a full glass of Johnnie Walker Blue.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> As funny as that is... and no, I did not pay for it. Some people shouldn't be allowed to breed. Nor breath.


 

 Oskari, those African Ebony feet will stabilise you and me.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Oskari, those African Ebony feet will stabilise you and me.


 
  
  
 I'm not sure about you... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 But I'm quite stable without them, thank you.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow there are so many EL3N on eBay. Please don't deplete the stocks guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Check this La Radiotechnique EL3N ...beautifuuuul

  
 and this Mazda EL3N that started it all.


----------



## Oskari

> Originally Posted by *UntilThen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Check this La Radiotechnique EL3N ...beautifuuuul


 
  
 They all seem to be very beautiful. Lovely tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> They all seem to be very beautiful. Lovely tubes.


 
 I think the red rubberise paint is just for show but nice show indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

H1, imo 2 FDD20 or 2031 with 5998 is perfect. 10/10. 

How can EL3N be better than perfection.

This I have to hear. If it is true and external power supply is no longer required, this will be a significant milestone for Elise. Lukasz needs to provide build in sockets for EL3N or make the adapters for us. I'll write him a compelling email. He also need to stock up on EL3N and provide them as an upgrade option.

EL3Ns are 1930s tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi H1, when you're done with EL3N, you can work on EL33 lol. This has octal base.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el33.html
  
 ..and look gorgeous too, lots of brand, Mullard, Philips, Visseaux, take your pick.


----------



## UntilThen

I did it my way. Elise has brought me untold joy since arriving on the 27th Oct 2015. It is the best $649 I've spent. Now with Philips Miniwatt and Tung Sol 5998 with HE560, I feel the end is near.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
Regrets, I've had a few; 
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

I planned each charted course; 
Each careful step along the byway, 
And more, much more than this, 
I did it my way.
  
​So I spend on tubes which I have carefully selected and they performed more than I could ask for. To think, I did all that with all of you. Many years from now, I will know that this has been a beautiful part of my life. I wish the same for you as we approach the holiday seasons.


----------



## UntilThen

Amazing sound from Elise through HE560 for the last 4 hours. Since I came home from tennis, I've been immersed in my headphone listening indulgence. These Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998 are simply incredible. I'm loving this tone so much now. There's nothing here that I would change. Nothing at all. The whole frequency spectrum is flawless.
  
 I look at the pair of Mullard ECC32 selling for GBP 595 on Langrex and I can't see how that will be better than the sound I'm getting out of FDD20 now. Really I can't. I'm not even interested in ECC32 now.
  
 I await H1 to tell me more about the EL3N. I'm really intrigued now by his last post. He has a good ear. If he says EL3N sounds much better than 2 FDD20 and 2031 then I will sit up and pay attention. This will be ground breaking, bone shattering and wallet saving. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good night all.


----------



## mordy

More tube math:
  
 Everybody knows that one month has four weeks. So how can it be that a tube was made in the fifth week of May as an example?
  
 Is it possible for a tube made the same week as another tube to be listed as made in May and June? (I don't mean different manufacturing dates and packing dates which sometimes both appear on a tube.)
  
 Take a look at this:
  

SuMoTuWeThFrSa12345678910111213141516171819202122232425262728293031    
  
 This chart is from May 1966, but almost every single month will have five weekly periods in it. So if a tube was made on the 30th and 31st of May it would have been made in the 5th week of May.
  
 In this case June 1st would have been on a Wednesday and thus a tube made June 1,2,3 would have been made in the first week of June, even though it is within the same week as the 5th week of May.
  
 Thanks to Oskari and Gibosi for clarifying this.
  
 Here is an accounting joke: Client asks accountant: How much is 2+2? Accountant: What do you want it to be?


----------



## mordy

Here is a DIY project - a 6.3V 2.5A triode tube - Air blast required on plate and grid radiators.
  




  




  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/National-Union-3C27-B-New-in-box-planar-tube-March-1945-U-S-N-/281878907968?hash=item41a14acc40mWx3s7w6TfoLuKYKUgl9t3w
  
 $19 + cost of air compressor.....


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Amazing sound from Elise through HE560 for the last 4 hours. Since I came home from tennis, I've been immersed in my headphone listening indulgence. These Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998 are simply incredible. I'm loving this tone so much now. There's nothing here that I would change. Nothing at all. The whole frequency spectrum is flawless.
> 
> I look at the pair of Mullard ECC32 selling for GBP 595 on Langrex and I can't see how that will be better than the sound I'm getting out of FDD20 now. Really I can't. I'm not even interested in ECC32 now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...keep forgetting you're *ELEVEN* hours ahead of us here in the UK! (But I still reckon you're losing a good bit of beauty sleep courtesy of mistress Elise...I know *I* am, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 No chance yet for much more burn-in or listening I'm afraid...but the weekend is upon us!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...._if_ I can dodge my better half's disapproving  looks, that is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
 Which brings me to the awful news that I must cruelly mention, I fear (blame Oskari for encouraging me to be so cruel- sorry O!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...ie. have had strict orders that I simply won't be able to offer the adapter-making service for the foreseeable future - tragically cruel, I know lol!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And so our only hope is that we can persuade MrsXuling to come to the rescue once more and do the honors for us! If there were sufficient interest, I'm confident that this might just be possible?...I sincerely hope so...
 I can only apologise for not being able to help people out, given my recent rant about the EL3N...
  
 Now, as if my last tease wasn't bad enough, I'm afraid I must add even more to the cruelty factor...blame Oskari once again, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Although I haven't had chance for much further burn-in or listening - but fear not, the weekend is approaching! - out of interest I plugged in the HD650s for a quick listen, and...*goodness me!*...with the volume knob not even at 10o'clock, I have *never* heard them perform like this before! As y'all may have gathered by now, these cans get no real time now -  courtesy of the Beyer T1s - but I was shocked at what Elise plus these EL3Ns does for them...incredible! Still not (for me!) in the same league as the T1s, but this is the first time I've given the 650s so much credit since experiencing the glorious Beyers...further mind-boggling stuff!!
  
 So apologies once again for twisting the knife...I'm not really a sadist at heart, lol - honestly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Further torture to come soon, though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. Obviously though, as you, UT, are the one who found this tube for me, if we have no luck with MrsXuling I shall make you the exception with regard to adapters...I'm sure (hopefully!) no-one would take exception to that, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> ps. Obviously though, as you are the one who found this tube for me, if we have no luck with MrsXuling, I shall make you the exception with regard to adapters...I'm sure (hopefully!) no-one would take exception to that, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 H1: What should we be asking MrsXuling for? Is it just her gold plated Philips FDD20 TO 6SN7 B65 6H8C tube adapter without the modification for external power supply? I'm not totally clear as to what the EL3N base is. It looks like the FDD20 base.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1: What should we be asking MrsXuling for? Is it just her gold plated Philips FDD20 TO 6SN7 B65 6H8C tube adapter without the modification for external power supply? I'm not totally clear as to what the EL3N base is. It looks like the FDD20 base.


 
  
 Hi pc...yes, it is indeed the same "Europe side contact" P8A base, but the internal adapter wiring needs to be totally different...just as in the (also) pentode C3g. So it would be yet another production line for them! But who knows...if they want the business, they just might oblige lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am crossing fingers, toes - you name it! - that this does in fact happen...I still cannot believe what these tubes are delivering already, lol...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> - out of interest I plugged in the HD650s for a quick listen, and...*goodness me!*...with the volume knob not even at 10o'clock, I have *never* heard them perform like this before! As y'all may have gathered by now, these cans get no real time now -  courtesy of the Beyer T1s - but I was shocked at what Elise plus these EL3Ns does for them...incredible! Still not (for me!) in the same league as the T1s, but this is the first time I've given the 650s so much credit since experiencing the glorious Beyers...further mind-boggling stuff!!


 
 Haha H1, this will sell more HD650 and Elise I'm afraid. No worries about us spectators for now. Although you're more than conclusive of the wonders of EL3N, we'll let you do further testing with those red ones. This is like watching a new car prototype. It's new and gorgeous and everyone wants it before it's even on the production line. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm sure I can get xulingmrs (or JV can - her friend) to get on board this. She has been very obliging whenever I send her an email. I think she's our adapter maker. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In the interest of the community too, if we can get her to make adapters for C3G for Elise, I think that will be great. I still think C3G with 5998 sound really good with either HD650 or HE560 or for that matter any other headphones.
  
 Thanks for offering to help make me the adapters but don't worry for now. We would love to hear more reviews from you regarding EL3N. So please feel free to post all those great impressions. Most of us have great tubes such as the FDD20 and 2031 already. As mentioned, I'm very happy and content with those combinations. I'm even ready to call it journey's end for tube rolling. That's how good I feel the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998 are in Elise with HE560. I have attained audio nirvana. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The fan base for HD650 is huge. After so many years in production, they are still in demand. Many have tried TOTL headphones only to return to them. As for me, though I was once a firm lover of HD650, I find myself listening mainly with HE560 now. It is clearly more revealing and detail. More importantly, the HE560 sound more enjoyable and musical to me now. Who would have known. Btw I still think HD650 with Elise and those tubes sound superb. The best it can be. I am sure HD600, DT880, DT990 and AKG701 would do too. I'll not hesitate in a heartbeat to recommend Elise for those headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

Well folks I have the 1st great news for everyone. H1 as usual, the wonderful chappie that he is, has provided me with all the info to relay to xulingmrs for making adapters for .....
  
 wait for it..... EL3N & C3G  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	















  
 Fingers cross xulingmrs will produce gold plated ones for us. When this might happen? Well let's say it will take time. So enjoy your other tubes first. 
  
 Thanks H1. Not only did you introduced Elise to us. You're responsible for pioneering the use of these great tubes. My sincere thanks on behalf of the community.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Tube mathematics?:
> 
> 19/33 = 5.5/2
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very interesting, m...but now I have some questions nagging away at me regarding _final_ volume output - both quantity and _quality_, lol.
  
 I hope to be corrected if I'm wrong in my assumptions by those far more knowledgable than I in tubeamp electronics, but it appears to me that there are many other factors at play in determining the final outcome, beyond (voltage) gain...ie. gm (transconductance); _current__/plate dissipation_; amp topology, etc. etc.
  
 This is being brought home _*big time *_by how the EL3N is performing in the Elise...even with _much_ lower gain than the ECC31, it is now outputting to almost the same degree...and with a level of power and dynamics that is quite breathtaking - with the GEC CV2523 power tubes in place. To the point where - are you listening UT?! - I'm quite sure the 5998, for example, would be _far_ too much... from what I have read to date....
  
 There is certainly a *great deal* else going on here...no wonder I can't make head nor tale of most of what the DIY aficianados get up to - the subject is _immensely_ complicated!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Whatever, once again the Feliks-Audio guys have inadvertently created a machine that defies belief in what it is capable of handling...and to a level that is truly astonishing...(haven't I said that before?..._more_ than once, I suspect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Anyway mordy...keep up the good work!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> - are you listening UT?! - I'm quite sure the 5998, for example, would be _far_ too much... from what I have read to date....
> 
> There is certainly a *great deal* else going on here...no wonder I can't make head nor tale of most of what the DIY aficianados get up to - the subject is _immensely_ complicated!
> 
> ...


 
 I hear you H1, loud and clear. I'm telling xulingmrs that I need those adapters NOW. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And cheers to Feliks Audio. I'm offering them my soldering skills as I'm sure they will need help now with a mile long orders.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I hear you H1, loud and clear. I'm telling xulingmrs that I need those adapters *NOW*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Errrr...like* yesterday*, lol?!!...
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Errrr...like* yesterday*, lol?!!...
> 
> CHEERS!


 

 Alright I said yesterday because I'm 11 hours ahead of you lol. I'll be the first to usher in the New Year.
  
 Message send to xulingmrs and I specify *GOLD* adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm excited already. NOW tell me MORE about EL3N sonic performance. !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Alright I said yesterday because I'm 11 hours ahead of you lol. I'll be the first to usher in the New Year.
> 
> Message send to xulingmrs and I specify *GOLD* adapters.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry UT...you'll have to wait a while I'm afraid...supper time, lol!...
  
 BFN!!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> The fan base for HD650 is huge. After so many years in production, they are still in demand. Many have tried TOTL headphones only to return to them. As for me, though I was once a firm lover of HD650, I find myself listening mainly with HE560 now. It is clearly more revealing and detail. More importantly, the HE560 sound more enjoyable and musical to me now. Who would have known. Btw I still think HD650 with Elise and those tubes sound superb. The best it can be. I am sure HD600, DT880, DT990 and AKG701 would do too. I'll not hesitate in a heartbeat to recommend Elise for those headphones.


 
  
 I look forward to the day I can report on what the Elise can do for my HD700s. I haven't heard anything from Feliks and am starting to think I may be waiting until after Christmas (((


----------



## aqsw

This might sound weird, but Boney M is putting a major smile on my face


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I look forward to the day I can report on what the Elise can do for my HD700s. I haven't heard anything from Feliks and am starting to think I may be waiting until after Christmas (((


 
 One thing's for sure. You'll have a lot to report on Elise with HD700. I have a great hunch they are made for each other. Just perfecxion. 
 What Elise can do for dynamic headphones are simply incredible. What she can do for planar magnetics are simply unbelievable.
  
 As for waiting, now this is the hard part. Every Elise owners go through that agony. It's like a child waiting to open his Christmas present when it's only the beginning of November.
  
 Do not be anxious my friend. The timing is bad indeed with Christmas looming. The best part is you will get Elise. May not be for Christmas but certainly for early 2016. My wait seems like eternity too but then suddenly I've Elise for one and a half months already. Problem is I'm still listening to it like a maniac. It's unquenchable.


----------



## aqsw

Im going to have to try the wire grounding to the amp on my fdd20. The hum has not gone away. I put the stocks in for now again. I still love this amp though, even with he stock tungsols. Waiting on mrsx ecc adspters for my mazdas. LC gets ZERO time.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> This might sound weird, but Boney M is putting a major smile on my face


 

 It's not weird. Elise will bring back disco. Ah those years....how have they gone by so quickly.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Im going to have to try the wire grounding to the amp on my fdd20. The hum has not gone away. I put the stocks in for now again. I still love this amp though, even with he stock tungsols. Waiting on mrsx ecc adspters for my mazdas. LC gets ZERO time.


 

 Omg poor Liquid Carbon. Say that on the LC thread and you'll be chased around the block. I expected this to be so. Your love for LCD2.2. I know your sound preference without you even telling me. Tube amp is a natural choice if that is your preference. Well not just any tube amp. In my opinion Elise is a natural choice.
  
 And why haven't you ground your fdd20? Hum will be there for eternity if you don't ground it. Once you do, you'll be selling off your LC.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> It's not weird. Elise will bring back disco. Ah those years....how have they gone by so quickly.




Yes the Elise can do alot of things, but bringing back Disco is a lot to ask.
If it does, I'm going to trash it!
The absolute worst stage of music in my lifetime.


----------



## aqsw

Listening to Stevie Wonder. Songs in the key. Bringing back alot of good memories. Never heard it like this though.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Yes the Elise can do alot of things, but bringing back Disco is a lot to ask.
> If it does, I'm going to trash it!
> The absolute worst stage of music in my lifetime.


 

 LOL...I remember all the young ones in disco clubs doing John Travolta's moves. Classic !!!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Listening to Stevie Wonder. Songs in the key. Bringing back a lot of good memorieough.s. Never heard it like this t


 

 aqsw, you realise you will sell a lot more Elise with such one liners than this whole thread. I fear you're well and truly hooked with Elise. Now get those FDD20 and Mazda working and I'll see you posting every minute.


----------



## UntilThen

With the anticipation of adapters being available for C3G, I revisited it again. Now paired with 5998, I know why this was the first set of tubes I tried in Elise. Nothing beats C3G for clarity, details and sparkles. Bass is lovely amply aided by 5998. You will literally hear twinkle twinkle little stars. If I didn't purchase fdd20, 6n7g, 6a6 or ecc31, I would have been TOTALLY CONTENT with C3G.
  
 These drivers are unbelievably sweet. I hug my knees just listening to this setup.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> One thing's for sure. You'll have a lot to report on Elise with HD700. I have a great hunch they are made for each other. Just perfecxion.
> What Elise can do for dynamic headphones are simply incredible. What she can do for planar magnetics are simply unbelievable.
> 
> As for waiting, now this is the hard part. Every Elise owners go through that agony. It's like a child waiting to open his Christmas present when it's only the beginning of November.
> ...


 
  
 I'm doing my best to be patient. Candidly, if I had never heard of the Elise I'd be pretty happy with my Little Dot MK IV SE with stock tubes - especially so since I upgraded my DAC to a Bifrost MultiBit. I have a pair of C3Gs I can run as drivers in the LD and can only imagine how they could perform in the Elise. With the stock LD power tubes, the C3Gs are a little overwhelming, but their magic is impossible to miss. I'm sure they will be very well behaved if they ever see service in my Elise. I really hope you are successful with Mrs.Xuling. A pair of her FDD20 adapters is now in transit. I'm hoping for both the C3G and EL3N adapters. I've already ordered a pair of EL3Ns just in case ))
  
 Interestingly, I ordered a Valhalla 2 at the same time I ordered the Bifrost, but returned the amp. I was very unimpressed with it - at least with the stock tubes.
  
 Finally, I am optimistic about the synergy between the Elise and HD700s. The 700s have up-scaled very favorably with every improvement I have made upstream from them.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I was ask a question by xulingmrs. 
  
_hi, friend,do you confirm your amp 6SN7 tube only using half triode?if sure,i think 6SN7 triode must parallel connect together_
  
Can anyone confirm this? In the absence of H1 who is sleeping?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright I was ask a question by xulingmrs.
> 
> _hi, friend,do you confirm your amp 6SN7 tube only using half triode?if sure,i think 6SN7 triode must parallel connect togWowether_
> 
> Can anyone confirm this? In the absence of H1 who is sleeping?


 
 Wow. Her response time is certainly impressive.
  
 Of course, I don't have a clue. All I can say is H1 sure has a lot of nerve sleeping at a time like this!!!! lol


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Wow. Her response time is certainly impressive.
> 
> Of course, I don't have a clue. All I can say is H1 sure has a lot of nerve sleeping at a time like this!!!! lol


 

 Yes she is very responsive to my emails. A very good seller and adapter maker. I told her to wire the pins exactly as per the information H1 gave me. It should then be correct. I think once she understand fully and it looks like she does, she will instruct her workers to begin constructions.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yes she is very responsive to my emails. A very good seller and adapter maker. I told her to wire the pins exactly as per the information H1 gave me. It should then be correct. I think once she understand fully and it looks like she does, she will instruct her workers to begin constructions.


 
 Great news. Thanks so much for all your efforts. I will certainly order a pair of each adapter if she makes them available.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm doing my best to be patient. Candidly, if I had never heard of the Elise I'd be pretty happy with my Little Dot MK IV SE with stock tubes - especially so since I upgraded my DAC to a Bifrost MultiBit. I have a pair of C3Gs I can run as drivers in the LD and can only imagine how they could perform in the Elise. With the stock LD power tubes, the C3Gs are a little overwhelming, but their magic is impossible to miss. I'm sure they will be very well behaved if they ever see service in my Elise. I really hope you are successful with Mrs.Xuling. A pair of her FDD20 adapters is now in transit. I'm hoping for both the C3G and EL3N adapters. I've already ordered a pair of EL3Ns just in case ))
> 
> Interestingly, I ordered a Valhalla 2 at the same time I ordered the Bifrost, but returned the amp. I was very unimpressed with it - at least with the stock tubes.
> 
> Finally, I am optimistic about the synergy between the Elise and HD700s. The 700s have up-scaled very favorably with every improvement I have made upstream from them.


 

 Your LD MK4se should keep you satisfied until Elise arrives. I was using Darkvoice 336se with HD650 too before Elise arrival. Let me assure you Elise is a HUGE improvement on those 2 tube amps. Your Bifrost is good and you're ready DAC wise.
  
 I have not heard the Valhalla 2 so I won't comment but suffice to say that Elise as a tube amp is all you'll ever need unless you're going to spend above 2 grand. That IMO is how good she is. Plus the discovery of these tubes will further improve on the sonic performance.
  
 I am a Sennheiser fan. HD700 has favourable reviews so I believe you're in for a very good time.
  
 Those C3G tubes are really something. I'm still listening to it now and I'm more than excited. Those are quality drivers. Listening to Dreams by Fleetwood Mac now and Stevie Nicks sounds so good. I'm playing all the old songs and they all sound amazing now. I am hearing things I've not heard before...an all too often use quote but never more true than now.


----------



## UntilThen

Just to be clear here. What you want is C3G not C3M. Don't buy the wrong tube for Elise.
  
 As I sat listening using C3g and 5998, I'm getting more and more amazed at this combo. John Mayer's songs are so engaging.
 I really think this pairing is superb. So many good choices now for Elise, it's mind boggling.
  
 Once the adapters are ready, you should grab a pair of C3g and 5998. (I believe Chatham 6AS7G or equivalent will do too if you don't have 5998.)


----------



## UntilThen

Furious and rapid email exchanges between Mrs Xuling and me happening now. She is as excited as I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Are you listening H1???  Read my PMs to you. I need confirmation. I can smell those adapters already.


----------



## UntilThen

Giving my Tung Sol 5998 a rest, as I substitute in a pair of new Chatham 6AS7G. These Chatham were bought from Skylab at an incredibly good price of $49.90 each. The yellow wordings are brand new and very clear. The tubes look new and I have no doubt they have never been used. Real NOS. Thanks Skylab.
  
 What a refreshing change now listening to Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Chatham 6AS7G. It's like a breath of fresh air. Oxygen course through my arteries as I listen to this setup on HE560. So to those folks who have these tubes combo, you're listening to some of the best there is on Elise.
  
 I listen to these songs in successions:-
  
 Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon
 I Can't Tell You Why by Eagles 'Hell Freezes Over' album
 Another Break In The Wall by Pink Floyd
 Amnesia by Keith Richards
 Ballade Pour Adeline by Richard Clayderman
  
 ...I'm floating on cloud 9...how am I going to tear myself away to watch Wanderers vs Melbourne Victory tonight? Yes I am going to watch the soccer game live...I need my Elise and my HE560 with me. See you there !


----------



## UntilThen

Spinning aqsw combo - Tung Sol 6sn7gtb and Tung Sol 5998. I can see why his LC is getting ZERO time. 5998 is good with any 6sn7 ..super creamy and warm in this setup, albeit not as polish as the other tubes. If a pair of Tung Sol 6sn7gt black round plates goes in, that would certainly change things.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Furious and rapid email exchanges between Mrs Xuling and me happening now. She is as excited as I am.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...WOW!...never thought things would be moving this fast, lol!...(Afraid I _*do*_ need my beauty sleep!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Anyway, poor MrsX does sometimes get a little confused...especially as I gave you - and you gave her! - the _precise_ pin wiring layout. But it's just as well she came back to you, and have PM'd you the correction...hope all will now be well...
  
 Cheers for now
 CJ
  
 ps.  Hopefully further report later on the EL3N...Christmas duties are being thrust at me right now, alas!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...WOW!...never thought things would be moving this fast, lol!...(Afraid I _*do*_ need my beauty sleep!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks H1. I've given her your correction. Her pins interpretation and numberings are wrong. So let's hope it's plain sailing from now on. Btw she did get the C3g correct.
  
 Looking forward to the outcome for EL3N and C3g adapters.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Thanks H1. I've given her your correction. Her pins interpretation and numbering is wrong. So let's hope it's plain sailing from now on. Btw she did get the C3g correct.
> 
> Looking forward to the outcome for EL3N and C3g adapters.


 
  
 Great, UT...well done...this could well turn out to be the greatest thing since JV organised things for the FDD20.
  
 And as you so rightly pointed out...*NO NEED FOR EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY!!!...*what more could we ask for, lol?...(just further confirmation on how the EL3N develops!...soon, soon....


----------



## UntilThen

Well I'm learning something too in the process lol. Besides EL3N, we're also getting C3G adapters for Elise. This will be really good. I'm sure there are quite a few who wanted the C3G adapters.
  
 I can assure you that after EL3N, I'm hanging up my guns. No more tubes. Like Shane, I'm riding off into the sunset. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 What the... 7N7 with 5998 is sounding so good now. Too many good tubes !!!
  
 I've a strange feeling that I'll come full circle back to 6SN7...back to where it all started by Feliks Audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh btw my team won in the soccer match so I'm doubly happy now...and the pair of EL3N Philips NOS tubes are on the way to me.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I can assure you that after EL3N, I'm hanging up my guns. No more tubes. Like Shane, I'm riding off into the sunset.


 
And like Joey, we will all be calling out "Shane! Come back!" Just a little septuagenarian reference. lol


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well I'm learning something too in the process lol. Besides EL3N, we're also getting C3G adapters for Elise. This will be really good. I'm sure there are quite a few who wanted the C3G adapters.
> 
> I can assure you that after EL3N, I'm hanging up my guns.* No more tubes. *Like Shane, I'm riding off into the sunset.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha, UT...lost count of how many times I've said that, lol!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 ps. Glad about your team's win...but more so about those beauties on the way to you!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Haha, UT...lost count of how many times I've said that, lol!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Omg Mrs X finished the C3G adapter already !!!  She's still confuse about EL3N... says looking at 
  

   hi,just confirm pin layout,but please see 4699 tube pin layout it Counterclockwise read.it is same P8A socket.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_4699.html

 i was finished one C3G to 6SN7 Adapter,diagram is you first give me.
  
 HELP H1. What do I tell her? regarding EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Omg Mrs X finished the C3G adapter already !!!  She's still confuse about EL3N... says looking at
> 
> 
> hi,just confirm pin layout,but please see 4699 tube pin layout it Counterclockwise read.it is same P8A socket.
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...PM'd you a diagram...hopefully _that_ clears things up for the poor woman, lol!...sigh...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Finished a C3g one already?..._*amazing!*_...do hope she's used the same silver-plated "roll-jaw" socket as for the LD adapter!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...if not, _another_ message is needed!!!
  
 Cheers!
 CJ


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...PM'd you a diagram...hopefully _that_ clears things up for the poor woman, lol!...sigh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah ha ! After I forward your diagram to her, she said ..
  
ok,i know.just try to upload C3G adapter to ebay,but not success,tomorrow will try it again.
Bests regards!
  
The C3g adapter looks like the LD adapter but with 6SN7 pins of course. Similar to this..

  
 So hopefully we get the correct adapter or I'll be adapting myself after I ride off into the sunset. !!!
  
 Also she's a professional, she doesn't mugged around LOL. You want it yesterday, she'll give it to you. !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Ah ha ! After I forward your diagram to her, she said ..
> 
> ok,i know.just try to upload C3G adapter to ebay,but not success,tomorrow will try it again.
> Bests regards!
> ...


 
  
 Fingers crossed, UT...we'll get there in the end, to be sure...did you stress on her these will only work in the Elise?...because our 6SN7s are wired in _*series*_, whereas anyone else's will surely be only in _*parallel*_...just so as she can list them correctly on ebay, of course!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Fingers crossed, UT...we'll get there in the end, to be sure...did you stress on her these will only work in the Elise?...because our 6SN7s are wired in _*series*_, whereas anyone else's will surely be only in _*parallel*_...just so as she can list them correctly on ebay, of course!!


 

 Yes I told her it's for Elise by Feliks Audio. Also that it's wired in series not parallel. I'll remind her again to list it as such on eBay.
  
 The wiring information you gave me is indicative that it's wired in series right?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yes I told her it's for Elise by Feliks Audio. Also that it's wired in series not parallel. I'll remind her again to list it as such on eBay.
> 
> The wiring information you gave me is indicative that it's wired in series right?


 
  
 Yep...should be clear, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You know, UT...I reckon most folks would have a fit if they knew what's involved in bringing these weird but *wonderful* tubes to the party lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers everyone!!... and HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yep...should be clear, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They don't sound weird to me. The C3Gs I'm listening to now sounds like pure music to my ears. These C3Gs are really *GOOD* !!! 
 The proof is in the listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good night time to zzzz. Thanks again CJ.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep...should be clear, lol!
> ...


 
 I find the detail of the C3g drivers to be absolutely stunning  with the HD800 headphone.....great combo to say the least  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Very nice with the Senn HD650 too!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I look forward to the day I can report on what the Elise can do for my HD700s. I haven't heard anything from Feliks and am starting to think I may be waiting until after Christmas (((


 
  
 Hi pc...from what I remember when I tried the 700s a while back, they will undoubtedly benefit immensely from being fed by Elise, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...whichever tubes you use!..(but boy, are you in for a (pleasant!) shock when you have the C3gs, FDD20s etc. in the driving seat...and as for the EL3Ns...well, at the moment I'm totally lost for words - but fear not, hopefully will find just a few(?!) more later tonight...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aqsw said:


> This might sound weird, but Boney M is putting a major smile on my face


 
  
 Get that hum sorted, aqsw, and there'll be more than just a smile on your face, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and if you can't, then hopefully the EL3N - without the need for external PS - will ease the disappointment, lol!...*big time!!*
  


untilthen said:


> My ideal setup:-  (Yes in that order.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...as is by now quite apparent, this amp has proved beyond any doubt whatsoever to be one that should appeal to pretty well _*ALL*_ tastes/preferences/wishes imaginable - given the now extensive choice and range of tubes/combinations possible, especially the vast array of drivers we have amassed : everything from warm/dark to all shades of bright; full/heavy/bold to light/delicate/airy; forward to deeper presentation, etc.etc....but all with immaculate control, PRaT, cohesion and detail. And all at a price that belies this bewildering collection of abilities.
  
 As JV says :               WE ARE INDEED THE LUCKY ONES!!


----------



## hypnos1

whirlwind said:


> I find the detail of the C3g drivers to be absolutely stunning  with the HD800 headphone.....great combo to say the least
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes sir!  Pretty well Kings of detail, to be sure lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm sure also those 800s must pick out _*every single note*_...lovely! (Like me, you're obviously a detail addict lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

GOOD NEWS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Would you believe it? Mrs Xu Ling has finished making those 2 adapters. !!! Don't they sleep?!!!
  
 It's not up on eBay yet but I'll buy from her and try out first. I'll be the guinea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After 3 days it will be put up to eBay. She seems to have problems at the moment uploading to eBay for sale. Minor problems. You can take the risk or wait for me to test it out first. I suggest the latter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, as they say pictures or it didn't happen...
  
 I'm afraid it's still the big chunky white marshmallows. So red EL3N with white adapters .... Bling bling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Pictures resize - bigger now. Labels says 'Double Happiness Audio' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....I think that's what we're getting.
  
*Note:- These are for 6SN7s that are wired in series and not parallel. Unless your tube amp is built that way or it wouldn't work. Elise 6SN7 is wired in series...*
 There you go H1. I put in the disclaimer.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I find the detail of the C3g drivers to be absolutely stunning  with the HD800 headphone.....great combo to say the least
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Expanding on what whirlwind says, C3Gs are simply amazing drivers. Clarity, details, imaging, fast and articulate and great sound staging. I like it paired with Tung Sol 5998 the most. However now paired with affordable Mullard 6080, I find it an absolute stunner. It's hard to find a sound as clear and fresh as this. I have heard some say that the treble can be a bit much but even to my ears, that have a preference for warm and lush, I find this combo one of my favourite now. It feels slightly warm, lush and crystal clear.
  
 It works perfect with HE560. I'm glad to hear from whirlwind that it sounds good on his HD800, even though his is a different tube amp. I know several Elise owners who love their C3g with HD800 and T1. The one who love C3g the most is undoubtedly H1. He started it working on Elise by making those adapters and now that knowledge is pass on to Mrs Xuling so that everyone can sample it.
  
 Certainly try C3g with 5998 or Mullard 6080.
  
 Oh forgot to add that it sounds great on HD650.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> GOOD NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW UT...this is absolutely amazing!...Yes indeed, all we need now is for the guinea pig - YOU! - to make sure they work fine...WELL DONE, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They really do look very good indeed...hats off to MrsX!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I'm really glad more people will now be able to savour the magic of the C3g...certainly one of my all time favourites, lol!
  
 But now down to 'pathfinding' business....the EL3N. As It's about past my bedtime, I'm afraid this update must be short....but hopefully _sweet!_
  
 Everything I waxed lyrical about last time remains true...but even _more_ so - bass and mids leave both the ECC31 and FDD20 _*way* _behind. To tell the truth, I was beginning to worry that they would in fact overwhelm more delicate fare, so I tested with a few less overtly "dynamic" pieces : James Taylor's "You've got a friend" and "You can close your eyes"; Jim Croce's "I'll have to say I love you in a song" and "Time in a bottle; Joan Baez's "I never dreamed you'd leave in Summer" and "Jesse"; and to finish, a bit of both delicate _and_ dynamic - Dire Straits' "Love Over Gold".
 Well, all I can say is these tubes passed with flying colours - everything was in perfect balance...phew!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...from the deepest bass I have ever heard in an HP, thru the most amazingly gorgeous mids to the sweetest - but not recessed or 'weak' - treble you could ask for.
  
 More detailed info at a later date, but the main quality that hits between the eyes is the rich, dynamic, 'full' -  but perfectly balanced and controlled - sound...one I have never encountered to anywhere near this degree. Note I didn't use the word 'lush'...because all too often this can also mean hints of congestion/'muddiness'/reduced clarity and separation - _*none*_ of which is/are present in these EL3Ns...in my own setup, of course...but I see no reason why this shouldn't be true generally IMHO.
  
 I'm afraid this will have to do for now...zzzzzzz calls!
  
 Goodnight all...


----------



## whirlwind

hypnos1 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I find the detail of the C3g drivers to be absolutely stunning  with the HD800 headphone.....great combo to say the least
> ...


 
 Yeah, sometimes i am into the detail....other times I just want something warm....other times something else.......lol
  
 No denying the C3g's are very, very detailed.


----------



## pctazhp

H1 and UT:  Thanks so much for your amazing efforts. And my cowboy hat is certainly off to Mrs. Xuling!!!
  
 For someone who remembers the first black and white TV to enter my childhood home when I was 6 and only 1 channel to watch on it, I have certainly been blessed to live to see what a magical world technology has brought us. It is easy to focus on all that is threatening our very existence. But in some small way, seeing this world-wide collaboration from Poland to England to Australia to China that has lead to a means to enjoy music in a way that can touch our souls and bring tears to our eyes is a pretty effective antidote to the barrage of our now entrenched 24/7 news cycle . It is somewhat ironic that this minor miracle involves valve technology that dates back to the early 20th century.
  
 Great job all))))
  
 PS H1:  It's gratifying to hear someone talk about the likes of Joan Biaz, Jim Croce, James Taylor and Dire Straits.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Mrs Xu Ling did the most important thing. Send me a Paypal invoice. 
  
 pctazhp well said but I've not heard of a buyer of Elise from China yet. Btw Mrs. X also sells Psvane CV181 Tii which looks gorgeous but H1 says aren't very great sounding for their high price. All you need now is EL3Ns. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think some of us are from the same era as far as our musical taste are concerned. James Taylor is one of my favourite musician, so is his former wife Carly Simon.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WOW UT...this is absolutely amazing!...Yes indeed, all we need now is for the guinea pig - YOU! - to make sure they work fine...WELL DONE, mon ami...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Bass and mids leave both the ECC31 and FDD20 way behind? Are you kidding me?
  
 Main quality that hits between the eyes is the rich, dynamic, 'full' but perfectly balanced and controlled sound? Are you kidding me again?
  
 Is this EL3N a super tube?  My scoring is max already for 2 fdd20 and 2031. There's no more room for EL3N. It has to exceed 10 which is in the realm of impossibility.


----------



## UntilThen

H1, we're not done with EL3N yet. Here's something to mull over.
  
_Type EL3.
This is a real pentode, no beam tetrode. It is the 6.3 Volt heated version of the AL4 and Philips improved the design which became the EL3N. When used single ended, it can deliver 4 Watts in pentode and just over 1 Watt in triode. When used triode connected Single Ended, word is that it can compete the famous (and insanely expensive) AD1. That, of course, is a doubtful statement since the quality of an amplifier does not solely depend on power valve choice. The EL3 is efficient, it does not need a hefty driver, and is economical on heater supply. When operated at the datasheets operating points, sound is energetic and seductive. Tone is very good, and both lows and highs are in good proportion. Of course component choice allows for some tweaking, *but in general you can not go wrong with the EL3N as a power valve.*_
  
​Alright all of the above are very encouraging and what you said about EL3N doesn't seem that far fetch after all. BUT I'm thinking .... why didn't you try EL3N as power tubes in Elise? Or... both as power and driver tubes. How would 4 red ones look in Elise? Pretty deadly I'd say.
  
Like this...

  
 That's how I want it to look. Without white marshmallows. So neat ...next version of Elise need to be this way.
  
 Ah I see why...sakuma style..using power valves as drivers as well as powers.
 https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/el3n_se_sakuma.php


----------



## UntilThen

In preparation for the new adapter arriving, I tried removing the C3G from H1's adapter. I suggest you use a flat screw driver to gently lift the tube from the socket, working your way around. If you try to pull the tube out, you might crush it as the glass is fragile.
  
 So here it is, lifted from it's adapter.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1 and UT:  Thanks so much for your amazing efforts. And my cowboy hat is certainly off to Mrs. Xuling!!!
> 
> For someone who remembers the first black and white TV to enter my childhood home when I was 6 and only 1 channel to watch on it, I have certainly been blessed to live to see what a magical world technology has brought us. It is easy to focus on all that is threatening our very existence. But in some small way, seeing this world-wide collaboration from Poland to England to Australia to China that has lead to a means to enjoy music in a way that can touch our souls and bring tears to our eyes is a pretty effective antidote to the barrage of our now entrenched 24/7 news cycle . It is somewhat ironic that this minor miracle involves valve technology that dates back to the early 20th century.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And thanks for your appreciation, pc...and some (nay, *a lot!*) of those oldies sure are *goldies*, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






untilthen said:


> Bass and mids leave both the ECC31 and FDD20 way behind? Are you kidding me?
> 
> Main quality that hits between the eyes is the rich, dynamic, 'full' but perfectly balanced and controlled sound? Are you kidding me again?
> 
> Is this EL3N a super tube?  My scoring is max already for 2 fdd20 and 2031. There's no more room for EL3N. It has to exceed 10 which is in the realm of impossibility.


 
  
 Sorry, UT....*I kid you not!*...I cannot believe it possible myself, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Will pop the Chatham 6AS7Gs in today and see what happens...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...hope to get at least five minutes later on to give further impressions, but Christmas duties are to the fore still, alas...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 BTW...to even up the non red-banded (Tungsram) EL3N, I just bagged a similar-looking Radio TSF EL3N for $13...'used', but reading NOS values and _looking_ new!  :
  

  
 Should be very interesting to see how they compare to the Philips "Red series" tubes....
  


untilthen said:


> H1, we're not done with EL3N yet. Here's something to mull over.
> 
> _Type EL3.
> This is a real pentode, no beam tetrode. It is the 6.3 Volt heated version of the AL4 and Philips improved the design which became the EL3N. When used single ended, it can deliver 4 Watts in pentode and just over 1 Watt in triode. When used triode connected Single Ended, word is that it can compete the famous (and insanely expensive) AD1. That, of course, is a doubtful statement since the quality of an amplifier does not solely depend on power valve choice. The EL3 is efficient, it does not need a hefty driver, and is economical on heater supply. When operated at the datasheets operating points, sound is energetic and seductive. Tone is very good, and both lows and highs are in good proportion. Of course component choice allows for some tweaking, *but in general you can not go wrong with the EL3N as a power valve.*_
> ...


 
  
 Very interesting - and _*encouraging!*_ - article UT...thanks.
  
 In this context, their use of these tubes as 'powers' appears to be as feed for a final _*output transformer*_, which of course we don't have. So I'm not too sure how they would in fact perform for us...aah, wait a minute - not on methinks : this (single, in effect) triode-strapped pentode ain't gonna work at the back, I fear! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Anyway, must go...back later - hopefully!


----------



## UntilThen

Is the HD800s out yet? I Google and all I get is this
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZPj9F0y18
  
 which of course kill me laughing.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Very interesting - and _*encouraging!*_ - article UT...thanks.
> 
> In this context, their use of these tubes as 'powers' appears to be as feed for a final _*output transformer*_, which of course we don't have. So I'm not too sure how they would in fact perform for us...aah, wait a minute - not on methinks : this (single, in effect) triode-strapped pentode ain't gonna work at the back, I fear!
> 
> ...


 
 No matter. To have achieved the sound with Philips Miniwatt FDD20 ad 5998 is something I didn't expect. As I said, Shane's ready to ride off into the sunset. This combination will tame the HD800. No need for the HD800s.
  
 I'm eager to test out the EL3Ns with 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G. Tubes are on their way to me. I expect the adapters to be send soon as I've already paid. Hopefully they arrive before Christmas which looks unlikely now. Whatever, no hurry but I certainly am *curious *to know what the red ones sound like.
  
 WOOHOO, I have a tracking number from Mrs Xuling. The adaptors were shipped out earlier today. Fingers crossed soon...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> No matter. To have achieved the sound with Philips Miniwatt FDD20 ad 5998 is something I didn't expect.* As I said, Shane's ready to ride off into the sunset.* This combination will tame the HD800. No need for the HD800s.
> 
> I'm eager to test out the EL3Ns with 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G. Tubes are on their way to me. I expect the adapters to be send soon as I've already paid. Hopefully they arrive before Christmas which looks unlikely now. Whatever, no hurry but I certainly am *curious *to know what the red ones sound like.
> 
> WOOHOO, I have a tracking number from Mrs Xuling. The adaptors were shipped out earlier today. Fingers crossed soon...


 
 Oh no you don't UT...I've been on the go for a year now - so you've only just _*begun lol!!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, for your and everyone else's information you'll be glad to know you don't need to bankrupt yourselves going for the GEC 6AS7G variants : with these EL3Ns  driving the more humble(?!) Chathams, you will be getting the equivalent of other drivers + the GECs, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And actually, I suspect many would indeed _prefer_ this sound - the slightly less bass/lower mids (but still ahead of the ECC31 and FDD20!) allows more of the higher frequencies to come through...and I have to admit I'm liking this aspect very much, as compared to the usual 'warmer' character of British tubes, which is being emphasised by the EL3N...perhaps a tad too much, lol!! (But this could just change with further burn-in yet...).
 An added bonus of the Chatham pairing therefore is a bit more 'air' and openness - at present!...The overall presentation as a result is, of course, a tad lighter...but still dynamic, full-bodied and exciting - just a bit less _rich...but _we're talking only slightly less dark _*Christmas cake*_, lol!! This is still a sound that hits every bone in your body...more so than I have ever heard before...(sorry for repeating myself).
  
 If my GECs don't move in this direction with more time on these wonders, I am not going to be a very happy chappie lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And from what you and others say about the 5998, I would imagine you could well find yourself/ves feeling the same way...but of course the rest of the system will have a say in this - not to mention personal preference, as per usual.
  
 And so this has at least now confirmed my belief that the EL3N has indeed surpassed _*all*_ our previous Elise drivers...bar _*none!*_...
  
 Ah well, time for dinner...and just a quick Christmas pic of Elise + EL3N + Chatham 6AS7G     :
  

  
 I know, I know...the things we do to keep our women happy, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










....CHEERS!
  
 ps. Amazing news re the adapters!
  
 pps. I swear those meeces too have smiles on their faces, sitting next to Elise...but nothing like the one on _mine_ right now!


----------



## nojdrof

Ok guy's I'm new to the headphone thing and really like what I'm seeing regarding the Elise. I'm currently using an Integra DHC 40.1 (part of my home theater system) to power my sennheiser hd700s. I'm loving these headphones! But I want more  will the Elise make a big difference? I don't see a lot of comparisons to full size home theater components to headphone amps. I do like the sound of tubes from back in my guitar playing days.

Thanks


----------



## Suuup

nojdrof said:


> Ok guy's I'm new to the headphone thing and really like what I'm seeing regarding the Elise. I'm currently using an Integra DHC 40.1 (part of my home theater system) to power my sennheiser hd700s. I'm loving these headphones! But I want more  will the Elise make a big difference? I don't see a lot of comparisons to full size home theater components to headphone amps. I do like the sound of tubes from back in my guitar playing days.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Short answer: Yes, Elise will make your 700's sing like they've never sung before.


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> Ok guy's I'm new to the headphone thing and really like what I'm seeing regarding the Elise. I'm currently using an Integra DHC 40.1 (part of my home theater system) to power my sennheiser hd700s. I'm loving these headphones! But I want more  will the Elise make a big difference? I don't see a lot of comparisons to full size home theater components to headphone amps. I do like the sound of tubes from back in my guitar playing days.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Hi nojdrof,
  
 I've tried listening to my HD650 and HE560 on my Denon AVR3805 and Sherwood Newcastle R945. Compared to a dedicated headphone tube amp like Elise, the difference is huge. Elise is clearly better sounding than listening through the Home Theatre receivers. Like night and day.
  
 I've also tried using Elise as preamp to those receivers and listen through the speakers. Now this is a very enjoyable experience. Elise is a very capable preamp besides being a superb headphone tube amp. Elise as preamp to those receivers through headphones is also enjoyable but I like listening through headphones from Elise direct. I'll expand on this with a short summary later.
  
 I love music from tube amps. There's no way I'll return to solid state.
  
 Cheers,
 UT


----------



## pctazhp

Just heard from Lukasz. I'm now in production slot number 2!!!!! Yaaaaaay ))))))


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> Just heard from Lukasz. I'm now in production slot number 2!!!!! Yaaaaaay ))))))


 
 Wow. They've most certainly stepped up their game. Mine was in production for close to 3 months. Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Ah well, time for dinner...


 
  

  
 This somehow seemed related...


----------



## hypnos1

nojdrof said:


> Ok guy's I'm new to the headphone thing and really like what I'm seeing regarding the Elise. I'm currently using an Integra DHC 40.1 (part of my home theater system) to power my sennheiser hd700s. I'm loving these headphones! But I want more  will the Elise make a big difference? I don't see a lot of comparisons to full size home theater components to headphone amps. I do like the sound of tubes from back in my guitar playing days.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Welcome to the thread nojdrof...as you may have already gathered, the Elise will give you *much* more!...(hope you've managed to read a good chunk of this new thread, as well as the _old  _one, lol?.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> This somehow seemed related...




  
 Ooooh Oskari...boy, are you in trouble with my other half lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(but how I *loved* those Muppets!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Oh no you don't UT...I've been on the go for a year now - so you've only just _*begun lol!!*_...


 
 Well if you follow the story of Shane, after he rode off into the sunset, the baddies came and terrorise the town. Like any good story, Shane return and ...well read the story lol.
  
 With this much tube discovery on Elise, anyone retiring from tube rolling will be lured out of their cave. So this EEC sounds good did you say? Just a shade behind the EEG? Alright we've to see if EET (Elise + EL3N + Tung Sol 5998) is just as good.
  
 Your adapters are perfect. So neat and flushed. No wonder those Christmas mouses are smiling. I doubt Mrs Xuling can make the adapters smaller. I have to learn to like the white marshmallows. I have several of them..for FDD20 and 6A6 and now for EL3N.


----------



## nojdrof

I've been reading this thread since I joined head-fi.org and found great information and great people. I'll be ordering my Elise very soon. Thanks for all the great information!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey UT - and anyone else interested - forgot to mention that with the EL3Ns in place, Elise's case hasn't run this cool for a _very_ long while...just slightly warm...which is always nice, lol!
  
 ps. Have just had a eureka moment...I can probably ease back that bass and lower mids for the GECs by not using the extra single-crystal copper wires in my adapters, and using just thicker pure silver instead...should do the trick nicely methinks...Oh dear, _more_ work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> I've been reading this thread since I joined head-fi.org and found great information and great people. I'll be ordering my Elise very soon. Thanks for all the great information!


 

 Welcome to Head-Fi and to Elise thread. We're like the Christmas elves who never sleeps. We look forward to your impressions when the time comes.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT - and anyone else interested - forgot to mention that with the EL3Ns in place, Elise's case hasn't run this cool for a _very_ long while...just slightly warm...which is always nice, lol!
> 
> ps. Have just had a eureka moment...I can probably ease back that bass and lower mids for the GECs by not using the extra single-crystal copper wires in my adapters, and using just thicker pure silver instead...should do the trick nicely methinks...Oh dear, _more_ work!
> 
> ...


 

 You'll make a great entrepreneur with adapters. As for the cooling properties of EL3N, what a bonus !!! Is there anything else with those magical tubes?


----------



## aqsw

​I'm assuming mrsx doesn't have the el3n adapters for sale yet?

I ordered a pair of tubes.
I guess my wallet wasn't closed.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> You'll make a great entrepreneur with adapters. As for the cooling properties of EL3N, what a bonus !!! Is there anything else with those magical tubes?


 
  
 Hi UT...think I'll pass on the adapter entrepreneur idea, thanks...don't think my poor nerves could stand it, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Anything else? Having just listened to the pairing with Chathams handling some _extremely_ complex sound engineering on tracks from The Alan Parsons Project "Turn of a Friendly Card" - with further burn-in finally producing the sort of 3D holographic soundstage I've come to love recently - how do the words 'mind blowingly incredible'; indescribable; earth-shattering; show-stopping; totally lost-for-words...(er, me?!) grab you for starters? Could go on, but I think you get my drift lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Oh, did I also mention _*total*_ deathly black background?...spooky!...
  
 Well, that's with the Chathams...have just popped the GECs back in, so when they've warmed up a bit I'm hoping the extra burn-in will replicate this magic...and more, lol!...and remedy those points I made last time re these powers.
  
 So hope to have some sort of news in the next minutes or so...before my eyes (and ears!) start shutting down!
  
 BFN


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> The Alan Parsons Project "Turn of a Friendly Card"


 
 I like APP listening to it now on my benchmark tubes, Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998. Sounds great.
  
 Was listening to DiMeola, McLaughlin, and De Luca in "Friday Night live in San Francisco ." Amazing guitars sound. Very complex stuff that the benchmark tubes shows up well.
  
Was reading all I could find on EL3N. This tube eventually led to the famous European pentode EL34. The American equivalent is the fame KT88.
I think we have stumbled on a jewel here. Let's hope the supply is endless. So I'm not surprise at your preview. It's infectious. I get goosebumps from here. 





 
  
 Source...see history
 http://www.jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm#history


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I like APP listening to it now on my benchmark tubes, Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998. Sounds great.
> 
> Was listening to DiMeola, McLaughlin, and De Luca in "Friday Night live in San Francisco ." Amazing guitars sound. Very complex stuff that the benchmark tubes shows up well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will read up on that tomorrow, UT....
  
 Final few words before zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....GECs = _*extra-rich *_Christmas cake! Gonna have to do a lot more listening to see just what I prefer, lol!....but at least between the Chathams and the GECs I can get superlative sound to match mood/state of hearing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Goodnight all....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Will read up on that tomorrow, UT....
> 
> Final few words before zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....GECs = _*extra-rich *_Christmas cake! Gonna have to do a lot more listening to see just what I prefer, lol!....but at least between the Chathams and the GECs I can get superlative sound to match mood/state of hearing!
> 
> ...


 

 LOL you've just save us money from craving for the GEC 6AS7G unless we want extra-rich Christmas cake. I'll take the lighter variety. Good for the health and wallet. Good night.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 I feel a little strange writing this, because I think I am the only one that is doing this - using the Elise as a preamp for speakers with these tubes:
  




  
 What we have here is a pair of Mullard 6080 power tubes, driven by a 1.5A 6BL7 and a 12.6V FDD20. Both driver tubes are using external power supplies.
 The sound is just wonderful. The FDD20 supplies musicality, and the 6BL7 supplies great detail and instrument separation; both tubes excel in clarity, bass, treble, tonality and timbre. A marriage of analytical and musical....
 For some reason both tubes blend very well with one caveat: The FDD20 plays louder than the BL and I have to compensate by moving the balance control to get a centered sound image.
  
 The Mullards are adding to the magic for sure - haven't yet figured in words how to describe it, but it is there.
  
 I am just sitting here and listening with a big smile - any or old familiar recording sounds fresh and new.
  
 Really
  
 Hard to believe, but it is true.
  
 Who would have believed that the Elise could reach such heights?


----------



## UntilThen

Richard Burton's opening lines in Wars of the World is now so true here.

'No one would have believed..'


----------



## PerfectAnalog

pctazhp said:


> Just heard from Lukasz. I'm now in production slot number 2!!!!! Yaaaaaay ))))))




When did your order yours?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Well if you follow the story of Shane, after he rode off into the sunset, the baddies came and terrorise the town. Like any good story, Shane return and ...well read the story lol.
> 
> With this much tube discovery on Elise, anyone retiring from tube rolling will be lured out of their cave. So this EEC sounds good did you say? Just a shade behind the EEG? Alright we've to see if EET (Elise + EL3N + Tung Sol 5998) is just as good.
> 
> Your adapters are perfect. So neat and flushed. No wonder those Christmas mouses are smiling. I doubt Mrs Xuling can make the adapters smaller. I have to learn to like the white marshmallows. I have several of them..for FDD20 and 6A6 and now for EL3N.


 
  
 UT: Marshmallows are good. Think S'mores: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S'more


----------



## pctazhp

perfectanalog said:


> When did your order yours?


 

 I ordered it on November 6, but didn't pay the Paypal invoice until November 30. I think Lukasz gave me a break and didn't penalize me because I was late in paying. He said my unit would ship before Christmas. I'm guessing the time between order and shipment is running about 6 weeks. I don't really know how long it will take to get to Arizona after he ships it.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> ​ I'm assuming mrsx doesn't have the el3n adapters for sale yet?
> 
> I ordered a pair of tubes.
> I guess my wallet wasn't closed.


 

 Nope..adapters are not up on eBay yet. Let me test both EL3N and C3G adapters first. Just to make sure Mrs Xu Ling got my instructions correct.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I ordered it on November 6, but didn't pay the Paypal invoice until November 30. I think Lukasz gave me a break and didn't penalize me because I was late in paying. He said my unit would ship before Christmas. I'm guessing the time between order and shipment is running about 6 weeks. I don't really know how long it will take to get to Arizona after he ships it.


 

 So there will be a few more Elise owners soon. @jerick70 should be getting his anytime now. Perhaps he's in his cave bobbing his head with LCD2.2 now.
  
 pctazhp, try and keep the stock tubes marked. I remove mine out of the boxes and now I don't know what numbers they are. Not that it mattered. I don't even use them now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am just sitting here and listening with a big smile - any
> 
> Who would have believed that the Elise could reach such heights?





Hello Mordy...very nice!

You really should spring for Mrs Xu Ling's 6BL7 adapters


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I ordered it on November 6, but didn't pay the Paypal invoice until November 30. I think Lukasz gave me a break and didn't penalize me because I was late in paying. He said my unit would ship before Christmas. I'm guessing the time between order and shipment is running about 6 weeks. I don't really know how long it will take to get to Arizona after he ships it.




Hello pctazhp...

Congrats on the Elise shipping before Christmas! Whereabouts in AZ are you?

I am visiting Lake Havasu City AZ on vacation, currently...here is the London Bridge that was relocated from London to AZ in 1971:



Cheers....


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> So there will be a few more Elise owners soon. @jerick70
> should be getting his anytime now. Perhaps he's in his cave bobbing his head with LCD2.2 now.




Nope, I wish I was. I've been laying tile for most of the week. My Elise was stuck in customs for quite a while. It should be here the first of the week.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, a new Head-Fi'er @milosingh just told me he's looking to find the best amp under $999 and is interested in tube ones. He is interested in the pairing with the HD 650 and HD 800. He was looking at tube amps like Ember, Lyr 2, ETTH, Valhalla 2, Little Dot MK IV SE etc. and SS amps like O2, Asgard 2, Polaris, Matrix M Stage, Mjolnir 2
 I'm sure you'll point him in the right direction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But first I'll give him my two cents: having tried the Lyr & Valhalla 2 and Ember, as well as the O2 and others - what I can tell you is that these are all entry level amps. A non-seasoned hobbyist may really like the sound of any of these amps, even possibly enough to throw their hat in for good. But for me, I've tried the best of the best amps and meet-ups and I'll tell you - it's far more worthy to start with a higher caliber amp like the *Elise from Feliks Audio*. Although I haven't heard this amp, all the reading I've done about it gives me the impression it's on a level of other 'summit-fi' amps I've tried that were *remarkably better than all the others listed above* - of which always left me with a question in the back of my mind whether something is missing - like it's not quite giving me the full experience.
  
 But if you do choose from the list above, I would wholeheartedly recommend the Project Ember because it has unrivaled sound quality _for it's price,_ especially if used with the right tubes. However, as I'm sure the others here would agree, it's worth every penny in gold to spend an extra $200 (plus tubes) for the Elise instead of the Ember. Eventually you will want to upgrade from any of the amps listed above anyway, so why not shoot for the top! From what I understand, the Elise is a little known secret... a knockout performer on-par with $2,000 amps, for only a fraction of the cost.
  
@UntilThen and @JazzVinyl and others you can probably do a better job than I had on this...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Hey guys, a new Head-Fi'er @milosingh just told me he's looking to find the best amp under $999 and is interested in tube ones. He is interested in the pairing with the HD 650 and HD 800. He was looking at tube amps like Ember, Lyr 2, ETTH, Valhalla 2, Little Dot MK IV SE etc. and SS amps like O2, Asgard 2, Polaris, Matrix M Stage, Mjolnir 2
> 
> @UntilThen and @JazzVinyl and others you can probably do a better job than I had on this...


 
 You did a good job DL. I couldn't have done better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Elise is way better than all of those....ok lol very presumptuous here as I have not heard a few of those. I have however tried, JDS Lab o2+odac, Schitt Modi 2 Uber and Schitt Magni 2 Uber, Aune T1, Darkvoice 336se. None of those would make me listen like a maniac for nearly 2 months now.
  
 I think if you're buying below $2000, it's a shame to bypass Elise. Even if you have less than $1000 to spend, you should get Elise. Wait, even if you have just $649 and nothing more, get Elise.
  
 I was so undecided when making my purchase, whether to go for the La Figaro 339 or Elise. Everything points me towards LF339 but I was persuaded by a LF friend and the rest is history. I will forever be thankful to her for advising me to give Elise a go. I'd have miss this incredible experience if I didn't.
  
 Nothing more needs to be said.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I am visiting Lake Havasu City AZ on vacation, currently...here is the London Bridge that was relocated from London to AZ in 1971:
> 
> Cheers....


 
 JV !!!  I thought you did what Shane did.... 
  
 Well you've been missed !!!  In your absence I was struggling, trying to get Mrs Xu Ling to understand what we need. The adapters are on their way to me. I hope they will work with my light bulbs. 
  
 Have a good holiday. See you soon.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Nope, I wish I was. I've been laying tile for most of the week. My Elise was stuck in customs for quite a while. It should be here the first of the week.


 
 Ah yes Jerick, I forgot that you have to lay tiles or you'll be sleeping in the kennel. Why is it stuck in customs? I bet customs are spinning it right now and enjoying it. Hope it finds it's way to you safely.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

H1, JV, UT 
  
  
  I have to tell you 2031 is " End Game" for me. OH .... Wait..... what's that?...... EL3....SOMETHING??? OMG!!!! I thought I found my perfect end game combo of 2013. I guess not..........here I come.....EL3N
  
 What would I do without you crazy people(crazy in good way).  I am using ELISE as PREAMP for the last month. I've not touch my T1 or HD650 once last 30 days. I would've paid 2000- 3000 USD for preamp that sounding as good as ELISE (2031 setup) in 1990s.
  
  
 UT, 
  
 I really enjoy reading your FRONT PAGE WRITE UP. Excellent job. Thank you for taking initiative on ELN adapter with vendor. Really appreciate your effort.
  
 H1,
  
 Thank you for being a brave guinea pig (EL3Ns)
  
  
 congrats to all new (THE LUCK ONE .... said JV) Elise owners.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Ah yes Jerick, I forgot that you have to lay tiles or you'll be sleeping in the kennel. Why is it stuck in customs? I bet customs are spinning it right now and enjoying it. Hope it finds it's way to you safely.




It looks like the lovely Elise left customs this morning. She should be here soon! Maybe tomorrow. 

In the mean time here are a few songs that I dedicate to my Elise. 

"Fur Elise" by Ludwig Van Beethoven 
and
"Letter to Elise" by The Cure


----------



## UntilThen

@CITIZENLIN thanks buddy. I've a PM coming your way.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> It looks like the lovely Elise left customs this morning. She should be here soon! Maybe tomorrow.
> 
> In the mean time here are a few songs that I dedicate to my Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 Jerick you're such a romantic. Your wife will be asking who is Elise.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> @CITIZENLIN thanks buddy. I've a PM coming your way.


 
 Received, THANKS UT


----------



## nojdrof

I've decided to get the Elise anything I should know before ordering? Options tube upgrades anything? Do you guys have contact info on who I can contact? 

Thanks


----------



## Lord Raven

nojdrof said:


> I've decided to get the Elise anything I should know before ordering? Options tube upgrades anything? Do you guys have contact info on who I can contact?
> 
> Thanks




Write to this address and book your slot, you'll not have to pay in the beginning. Follow the instructions. Tell your power supply requirements 120/220V. Discuss your cans with seller, he might offer best tubes for specific cans as upgrades. 

Lukasz 'info@feliksaudio.pl'

If you want you can skip stock tubes and buy the best on your own, I'll do this if I were you  Saves 50$

Buy a pair of EL3N for drivers and their adapters. For powers tubes you can start from GE 6AS7GA, then move on to Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998 and Western Electric 421A and finally GEC 6AS7G A1834  

PS I'm back guys  With a lot of upgrades lol

I thought I'd never post but I couldn't keep away from the forum


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Write to this address and book your slot, you'll not have to pay in the beginning. Follow the instructions. Tell your power supply requirements 120/220V. Discuss your cans with seller, he might offer best tubes for specific cans as upgrades.
> 
> Lukasz 'info@feliksaudio.pl'
> 
> ...



Happy to have you LR! Why'd you leave in the first place? Don't you know there is more tube rolling to be done?!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> The _American_ equivalent is the fame _KT88_.


 
  
 That might anger some poms.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> That might anger some poms.


 

 Did I give the credit to the wrong country lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Jacmusic says '..and in Europe from the KT66 the larger KT88 was derived. Further on it says KT88, upgrade of 6L6, designed by Tung Sol.
  
 So tell me more Oskari before I get chased by the poms.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Write to this address and book your slot, you'll not have to pay in the beginning. Follow the instructions. Tell your power supply requirements 120/220V. Discuss your cans with seller, he might offer best tubes for specific cans as upgrades.
> 
> Lukasz 'info@feliksaudio.pl'
> 
> ...


 

 Good LR !!! Not only are you back but you're giving the right advice now on tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello pctazhp...
> 
> Congrats on the Elise shipping before Christmas! Whereabouts in AZ are you?
> 
> ...


 
 Good to hear from you JV...was getting worried, lol! Glad you're obviously having a great vacation...but duties are waiting for you, mon ami!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


nojdrof said:


> I've decided to get the Elise anything I should know before ordering? Options tube upgrades anything? Do you guys have contact info on who I can contact?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Hi nojdrof...WELL DONE...great choice. As everyone else has been told (and agree once she's in the hands!) : you will not regret it one bit, lol...CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And I also would say don't worry about stock tubes...our latest finds re both drivers (front) and powers (back) will take Elise to far greater heights - please read (and re-read if necessary!) all the wonderful recent posts on this....your time and effort will be *well* rewarded!!


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello pctazhp...
> 
> Congrats on the Elise shipping before Christmas! Whereabouts in AZ are you?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV. Welcome to Arizona)) I live in Scottsdale. Let me know if you are going to be in the Phoenix-Scottsdale area. I would enjoy getting together with you if you time.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Jacmusic says '..and in Europe from the KT66 the larger KT88 was derived. Further on it says KT88 *6550*, upgrade of 6L6, designed by Tung Sol.


 
  
 See fix above.
  
 KT66, KT88 – UK
 6L6, 6550 – US


----------



## UntilThen

I love this song but it's kinda sad... with Mazda 6N7G and Tung Sol 5998 through HE560.... pure music.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> See fix above.
> 
> KT66, KT88 – UK
> 6L6, 6550 – US


 

 Well blame Jacmusic   Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## UntilThen

Peter wrote to me and said, 'You're not kidding. I've 6 or 7 orders today'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I sure hope that the adapters are working or I'll be running away fast chased by the mob here.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Well blame Jacmusic


 
  
 Yep. As always, critical reading required.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Peter wrote to me and said, 'You're not kidding. I've 6 or 7 orders today'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hahaha, that is wonderful! I bet he got a real surprise. I ordered a pair too. Have to get in on the latest and greatest.


----------



## Suuup

We're all head over heels for Elise. Everyone knows that by now. I am too. Now, I just decided to venture into the unknown - I wanted to try some of the modern pop music. I haven't given modern pop music a lot of time. Now, where better to start than here in Denmark. I decided to listen to Lukas Graham, a well known name in Denmark, and Scandinavia in general actually, for a couple of years by now. About a week ago he was featured in an American talkshow, and since then has been taking the US by storm. Anyway, this is not of importance.
  
 The first song I listened to was 7 years, a song about his life. It was actually really good, with some clever lyrics. Again, not the important thing. Better Than Yourself - another song by Lukas Graham. This one is the kicker. It's based on the First Movement of Beethovens Moonlight Sonata. I love the Moonlight Sonata, even if it is somewhat overplayed. Naturally, the song is very melancholic, being based on the Moonlight Sonata. They went for a kind of (Edit: I can't find the right word)-feeling, it's very open ended, dark, and gloomy. 
  
 I listened to this song with 5998 as powers and my Fivre 6N7G as drivers, and it got my thinking. I don't really like these tubes for this song at all. In fact, I can't think of any tube combination that would complement this song. Would I actually prefer a solid state amplifier for this one particular song? I don't know. Haven't heard many solid states. The warm sound of tubes doesn't work well with this rather dark song. 
  
 Here is my wish: Listen to this one song, and tell me: What tube combination would you use for this song? 
  
  
 Here it is on Youtube, although it would work much better if you could find a higher quality stream of it on Tidal or other options. 
  
 
  
 Edit2: This is exactly what it looks like in my mind, when listening to this song:
  
 Bonus edit: Can anyone guess what this is from?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Here is my wish: Listen to this one song, and tell me: What tube combination would you use for this song?


 
 I've listen to it using Mazda 6N7G and 5998. It does sound dark. What I have in mind are C3G and Mullard 6080, which I'm rolling in now. Will let you know in a sec.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I've listen to it using Mazda 6N7G and 5998. It does sound dark. What I have in mind are C3G and Mullard 6080, which I'm rolling in now. Will let you know in a sec.


 
 That was actually the one combination I had in mind, but I don't have adapters for the C3G yet.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup C3G and Mullard 6080 are perfect for it with my HE560. I think you can also use 7N7 or Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top and Mullard 6080 but the 1st combo would be best.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yup C3G and Mullard 6080 are perfect for it with my HE560. I think you can also use 7N7 or Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top and Mullard 6080 but the 1st combo would be best.


 
 That's good to hear! Will listen to it again when I get the adapters / make some of my own. 
  
 Elise can really handle anything we throw at her.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *LOL you've just save us money from craving for the GEC 6AS7G *unless we want extra-rich Christmas cake. I'll take the lighter variety. Good for the health and wallet. Good night.


 
  
 Yes indeed UT...I personally think this to be one of the most astounding revelations to date...and one that I _*never dreamt*_ I would even consider stating - I'm _still_ in shock, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I'm definitely gonna have to use just pure silver in the next EL3Ns I adapt!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> Peter wrote to me and said, 'You're not kidding.* I've 6 or 7 orders today'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 WOW UT...you're not the only one who'll be running lol, given my rantings! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But fear not....even if for some strange reason MrsX hasn't got it right first off, it shouldn't be too difficult for us to get her back on track!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but I sincerely hope they _*do*_ work straight away - I want your findings like _*yesterday!!*_...).
  
 I bet P can't believe what's happening!!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WOW UT...you're not the only one who'll be running lol, given my rantings!


 
 I sit here laughing so hard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You start running first, I'll be close behind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Suddenly the vendors are calling me friend. I'm likeable now.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> That's good to hear! Will listen to it again when I get the adapters / make some of my own.
> 
> Elise can really handle anything we throw at her.


 

 Yes Suuup you don't have to resort to ss amp. Can do anything with tubes. There's one for every ailments. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I'm really enjoying C3G with Mullard 6080 now...on electronic music !!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes Suuup you don't have to resort to ss amp. Can do anything with tubes. There's one for every ailments.


 
 Haha, I would never. Elise is simply too good. I didn't doubt for a second that there was a tube combination out there, that would be perfect for even this very dark song. Should have everything I need to make myself a pair of adapters soon, and if it fails, I can bounce back to Mrs Xulin, thanks to you!


----------



## UntilThen

> Should have everything I need to make myself a pair of adapters soon


 
 So many talented people on this thread. nephilim is trying something too...something fanciful.


----------



## UntilThen

H1, so what is the gain for EL3N? Where did you get the figures? Do you know the gain for C3G?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, so what is the gain for EL3N? Where did you get the figures? Do you know the gain for C3G?


 
  
 Hi UT - EL3N listed as 19, so I assumed the final value would in fact be halved, as per usual when triode-strapping a pentode. Came across the figure somewhere in my searchings...can't even remember exactly where now!
  
 But later I saw mentioned in one of the many (hundreds!) of related posts that sometimes the gain figure can actually be quoted _as triode-strapped_, rather than as pentode...confusing, or what??!! So, from the healthy amount obviously going to the powers, it must indeed be closer to 19 than 9 and a half, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...which, of course, has proved to be wonderful for us, as the alternative of having to use _*two*_ per driver position is pretty well a no-no...And as I mentioned a while back, the EL3N's higher transconductance figure is surely helping immensely...
  
 C3g gain is *40!*...but in this case we do, evidently, actually end up with 20, or else I'm quite sure poor Elise would *not* be so happy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Given the mad dash for these EL3N tubes, I've made sure to bag myself a pair, lol...CHEERS UT!


----------



## hypnos1

*YIPPEE!!!*...my GECs are finally behaving themselves with the EL3Ns - God Bless burn-in!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. No more Christmas cake indigestion.._hopefully!!_ More 'splash' treble and delicious decay/reverb, air/spaciousness/3D holography...but still _*unbelievable *_bass and mids. This must surely be $3,000 sound!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...PHEW!!!
  
 Must sign off now...a _very_ happy chappie once more...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT - EL3N listed as 19, so I assumed the final value would in fact be halved, as per usual when triode-strapping a pentode. Came across the figure somewhere in my searchings...can't even remember exactly where now!
> 
> But later I saw mentioned in one of the many (hundreds!) of related posts that sometimes the gain figure can actually be quoted _as triode-strapped_, rather than as pentode...confusing, or what??!! So, from the healthy amount obviously going to the powers, it must indeed be closer to 19 than 9 and a half, lol!  ...which, of course, has proved to be wonderful for us, as the alternative of having to use _*two*_ per driver position is pretty well a no-no...And as I mentioned a while back, the EL3N's higher transconductance figure is surely helping immensely...
> 
> ...






Hello H1 and UT...

A total gain of 9 seems very low and I wonder if that will be enough to power my 600 ohm DT-990's?

I have ordered a pair of EL3N and hope Mrs Xu Ling's adapters work...guess we will know soon if they have the juice to power the Beyers 

Hope so, with words like "leaves ECC31 and FDD20 WAY behind" being used to describe the sound. 

Cheers...


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1 and UT...
> 
> A total gain of 9 seems very low and I wonder if that will be enough to power my 600 ohm DT-990's?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...no sweat - as I mentioned, fortunately the gain must actually be the full 19 after all, so in effect almost the same as the 6SN7 in fact. But even so, the final effect is a surprisingly good bit more powerful nonetheless...with only the need for a slightly higher volume pot level - contradictory?...I have finally grasped the fact that powerful, dynamic, energetic output is not necessarily related to volume pot setting, lol! (hadn't _fully _twigged this principle until encountering what is happening with these EL3Ns...so much more to learn, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 11o'clock pot level into my T1s and I can already hear my eardrums saying 'careful, lad'!!...so _*fear not, my friend*_...all will be well.
  
 When I see my words being quoted I still hear myself saying..._*no way!*_...but when I close my eyes while trying to write this, any doubts immediately fly out of the window...and it's *YEAAH!!!*











...
  
 Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

It's high praise when you say that the EL3N is way better than the C3G, ECC31 and FDD20. I can't wait to hear it myself. Those 3 are very very good in my books along with some of the exotic 6N7G and 6A6. They are what makes me think Elise is $2000 sound but you've elevated her to $3000 with EL3N .... LOL.
  
 Right now, C3G and Mullard 6080 is priceless. So pin point sharp and clear. Above all it's not fatiguing and the warm factor is just right. It feels transparent and fast. We do have some of the best tubes at our disposal. Elise is a great amp but with these tubes, she's priceless. I've to give credit to the HE560 too. I really feel no need to get another headphone. This planar magnetic is a real gem.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1 and UT...
> 
> A total gain of 9 seems very low and I wonder if that will be enough to power my 600 ohm DT-990's?
> 
> ...


 

 Well it drove H1's Beyer well so I see no reason why it wouldn't drive your Beyer.   Arghh give me those tubes and adapters NOW. Wait no hurry because C3G and Mullard 6080 seems too good now. Head bobbing in the morning is a good exercise.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well it drove H1's Beyer well so I see no reason why it wouldn't drive your Beyer.   Arghh give me those tubes and adapters NOW. Wait no hurry because C3G and Mullard 6080 seems too good now.* Head bobbing in the morning is a good exercise.*


 
  
 Good exercise, UT?...with the EL3Ns gracing the Elise, you'd better make sure your poor head is well screwed down, lol...'bobbing' doesn't _begin_ to describe what it will be doing!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And once you've had a good blast, pick some nice pieces that touch the heartstrings and have a couple of hankies ready...Aussies have soft spots as well, no?! (hope so!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I say that because tonight I decided to leave off the analytical hat, and just immerse myself in the _emotional_ qualities (or otherwise!) of these tubes in Elise...and needn't have doubted. Jonas Kaufman's "E Lucevan le Stelle" and "Vesti la Giubba" nearly had me blubbing big time...as did Peter Paul and Mary's "Early Morning Rain" (such a relatively old, simple recording has no right sounding this good, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 And so the capabilities of these EL3Ns continue to build...are you slavering yet?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...yes, I _am_ that cruel after all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...sorry, but I just can't help it - blame these darned tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Goodnight all....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## UntilThen

Amazing you stayed up till now listening. Must be good. 

I'll be listening to Star Wars with EL3N. I have my lasers ready.


----------



## pctazhp

Merry Christmas to all my new-found friends: http://faithtap.com/2206/home-free-o-holy-night/
  
 Even a heathen like me is touched by music like this. Just hope I'll be enjoying it with my new Elise by New Years )))


----------



## mikeral

Hello,
  
 Can somebody please comment on Elise vs Espressivo?


----------



## Lord Raven

mikeral said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can somebody please comment on Elise vs Espressivo?


 
 I remember someone who returned Espressivo for Elise  This is all you should know, I think it was JV, or Suuup!
  
 Edit: I just lost a pair of ECC31 on eBay, who got it?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Good LR !!! Not only are you back but you're giving the right advice now on tubes.


 
  
 Glad, I have done my math right!!! I learnt these things from you and the other forum members haha
  
 Thought to give you a hand with newbies


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Happy to have you LR! Why'd you leave in the first place? Don't you know there is more tube rolling to be done?!


 
  
 Thank you Suuup, remember I told you how much I had spent on tubes so far? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This forum is breaking my bank 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I left cause postal service did not deliver anything, and I had nothing to write about. Alhamdulillah (Arabic for Thank God), I received everything I ordered, the struggle was depressing but I never gave up. My Sennheiser HD600 are coming today, then I will post my reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still have to learn critical listening and describing the sound in audiophile language though. It'll be fun, so wait for a lot of impressions LOL
  
 After FDD20 arrived at my doorsteps I thought this is it, but then I got to know about EL3N and I came back. Already got a pair coming my way, waiting for the adapters to leave the assembly line. I heard everyone is getting it so YEAH!!!!


----------



## aqsw

Over on the microzotl thread they are saying the micro must be a better amp, because its more expensive


----------



## UntilThen

mikeral said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can somebody please comment on Elise vs Espressivo?


 

 Hi mike, I'll talk a bit on Espressivo and then a bit more on Elise.
  
 I met someone on Head-Fi who bought an Expressivo and he seems to be impressed with it on his HD650. Said he saw the Expressivo at a meet on the Beyer stand where the rep brought his own Expressivo to the stall. I must admit that this amp looks nice, low price and apparently drives the hd650 ok.
  
 Now onto Elise. H1, first started looking at the Expressivo when he and others on the Little Dot forum wanted to upgrade from their LD MK4. I think he even spoke to Feliks Audio about it but found out that the Expressivo would be limiting for their expectations. So the idea of designing a new tube amp from ground up was conceived using the 6SN7 and 6AS7 tubes family and their variants. These are very good tubes for a tube headphone amp. If you had read this thread, you'd have an idea of the range of tubes that propels Elise to cloud 9.
  
 Elise is way ahead of Expressivo. Which you choose depends on your need and your budget. However if I had to make the choice, it is quite simple. I will buy Elise without a doubt. At this point, I don't see a need to ever upgrade my amp again. Elise has been designed on a solid footing. The tubes we're discovering morph Elise into an amp equivalent to high end tube amp sound. Before I forget, Elise can drive low and high impedance headphones very well. That means dynamic as well as planar magnetics. She can also be use as a preamp to your home stereo system.
  
 Hope that helps.
  
 Cheers
 UT


----------



## richard51

aqsw said:


> Over on the microzotl thread they are saying the micro must be a better amp, because its more expensive


 

 not exactly that... i am curious about the two amps...and i said that  except for the sound( there is no review at this time ) in this brackett price the advantage of the Zotl  ( tube longevity 10 thousand hours and more, no necessity to change the tube, possibility to drive optimally low impedance cans not only high impedence one, and possibility to drive efficient speakers) the Zotl is very interesting and a match between the two will be interesting...i am curious about the elise also...best regards to you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.s. my apology for my intrusion to etablish the truth of my remark  and the fact


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> not exactly that... i am curious about the two amps...and i said that  except for the sound( there is no review at this time ) in this brackett price the advantage of the Zotl  ( tube longevity 10 thousand hours and more, no necessity to change the tube, possibility to drive optimally low impedance cans not only high impedence one, and possibility to drive efficient speakers) the Zotl is very interesting and a match between the two will be interesting...i am curious about the elise also...best regards to you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi richard and welcome   You're not intruding. We welcome anyone wanting to know more about Elise. 
  
 I haven't heard or know anything about the Zotl and I certainly won't put any gear down if I haven't heard them. So all respect to Zotl and until I have a listen and compare to Elise I wouldn't be able to comment further on Zotl vs Elise.
  
 It's interesting you said that Zotl has the possibility to drive efficient speakers. As in Hi Fi passive speaker?
  
 Elise has an amazing ability to drive both low and high impedance headphones. My HE560 works like a charm with Elise. High impedance HPs like T1, HD800, HD650, DT990, LCD2.2 all seems very happy with Elise.
  
 Elise can be use as a preamp. Several of us have tried and we are amazed at how well she performs in that aspect. 
  
 Cheers
 UT


----------



## richard51

untilthen said:


> Hi richard and welcome   You're not intruding. We welcome anyone wanting to know more about Elise.
> 
> I haven't heard or know anything about the Zotl and I certainly won't put any gear down if I haven't heard them. So all respect to Zotl and until I have a listen and compare to Elise I wouldn't be able to comment further on Zotl vs Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 thanks for your welcome.... If i read you correctly the advantage of the 2 amps are similar...except for the great longevity of the tube in the Zotl because of his original topology.... In 8 month to come i will purchase my end game amp... For now around  one thousand dollars there is only the feliks audio amp and the Berning microzotl that  have my interest.... I will read  your posts to you all ...thanks ....


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> thanks for your welcome.... If i read you correctly the advantage of the 2 amps are similar...except for the great longevity of the tube in the Zotl because of his original topology.... In 8 month to come i will purchase my end game amp... For now around  one thousand dollars there is only the feliks audio amp and the Berning microzotl that  have my interest.... I will read  your posts to you all ...thanks ....


 

 Buying a headphone tube amp at the $1000 mark is an exciting exercise. As I said I don't know Zotl, therefore I can't and won't comment on Zotl vs Elise. I think there are more options besides these 2, unless a preamp function is a must. My immediate thought is the La Figaro 339. Now this is the hard part. You have to make a choice based on others impressions whose taste could be different from yours. It's quite impossible to have all the amps together for a comparison before you make your purchase unless you can find them at a meet and try them out.
  
 I do know that I am very happy with the sound from Elise on the latest tubes that we have discovered. I listen with HE560 and HD650.
  
 I certainly wish you all the best in hunting for your end game tube amp. Any specific questions on Elise, feel free to ask.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## aqsw

richard51 said:


> thanks for your welcome.... If i read you correctly the advantage of the 2 amps are similar...except for the great longevity of the tube in the Zotl because of his original topology.... In 8 month to come i will purchase my end game amp... For now around  one thousand dollars there is only the feliks audio amp and the Berning microzotl that  have my interest.... I will read  your posts to you all ...thanks ....




Wasn't referring to your posts richard, actually some guy named yokasi, or something where he states the Elise probably stands no chance because it is half the price. If he only knew what the real price of tube rolling is. I'm not sure I would want a tube amp where you just put the tubes in and leave it. The fun is in the rolling and getting all the different sounds.


----------



## aqsw

I don't know if there ever will be a shootout between these two. They are both so rare. I'm glad I bought the cheap one!


----------



## richard51

untilthen said:


> Buying a headphone tube amp at the $1000 mark is an exciting exercise. As I said I don't know Zotl, therefore I can't and won't comment on Zotl vs Elise. I think there are more options besides these 2, unless a preamp function is a must. My immediate thought is the La Figaro 339. Now this is the hard part. You have to make a choice based on others impressions whose taste could be different from yours. It's quite impossible to have all the amps together for a comparison before you make your purchase unless you can find them at a meet and try them out.
> 
> I do know that I am very happy with the sound from Elise on the latest tubes that we have discovered. I listen with HE560 and HD650.
> 
> ...


 

 If you read about Berning and the Zotl you will discover that except the exceptional no other amp is supposed to be his equal except perhaps the Elise, this is my subjective impression for sure  ... i dont know about la figaro except that it is a good amp but not in the same league i think than the Elise...But i had not listen to one of them... It is impossible for me to go listen before buying.... I read ALL on the internet tons of review impression... I have been lucky to this day with the gear bought  after thousand of page of reading impression... The next year will be my endgame for headphone amp and dac...


----------



## mikeral

Thank you all for comments on Espressivo.
 I was also considedring Icon Audio HP8 MKII, anyone who listened to both Elise and HP8 MKII ?


----------



## aqsw

Well, I grounded my fdd20 and the hum is gone. How long should the ecc31 burn in?


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> If you read about Berning and the Zotl you will discover that except the exceptional no other amp is supposed to be his equal except perhaps the Elise, this is my subjective impression for sure  ... i dont know about la figaro except that it is a good amp but not in the same league i think than the Elise...But i had not listen to one of them... It is impossible to me to go listen before buying.... I read ALL on the internet tons of review impression... I have been lucky to this day with the gear bought  after thousand of page of reading impression... The next year will be my endgame for headphone amp and dac...


 

 How much is the Zotl? Secondly I certainly wouldn't be content buying a tube amp and not wanting to tube roll. You'll be amazed at what tubes can do to change the sound signature. So if you have one set of gorgeous tubes, you have one sound signature and it better be the one you like.


----------



## richard51

aqsw said:


> I don't know if there ever will be a shootout between these two. They are both so rare. I'm glad I bought the cheap one!


 

 Elise is not cheaper if you calculate the upgrading tube necessary to express his potential and the price of tube for 10 years.... Because of his topology  the Zotl Optimized tube life expectancy is  10 - 20 years based on use... the change of tube is not necessary for the expression of all his potential... Hence the 2 amps are on the same price brackett for me ...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Well, I grounded my fdd20 and the hum is gone. How long should the ecc31 burn in?


 

 Woohoo congrats aqsw. !!! IMO it doesn't take long ..just keep listening. They sound good from day 1 and exponentially increase in audio bliss as the days go by.


----------



## richard51

untilthen said:


> How much is the Zotl? Secondly I certainly wouldn't be content buying a tube amp and not wanting to tube roll. You'll be amazed at what tubes can do to change the sound signature. So if you have one set of gorgeous tubes, you have one sound signature and it better be the one you like.


 

 i already have the Ember and you are right all change of my tube have been an upgrade.... but the Zotl is another thing, another topology, tube rolling is possible but  is not the essence of the thing...With all i have already read the Elise is the only serious contender for me... and perhaps the other pricier feliks audio amp....


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> Elise is not cheaper if you calculate the upgrading tube necessary to express his potential and the price of tube for 10 years.... Because of his topology  the Zotl Optimized tube life expectancy is  10 - 20 years based on use... the change of tube is not necessary for the expression of all his potential... Hence the 2 amps are on the same price brackett for me ...


 

 Wow I'm impressed. Life expectancy of 10-20 years on the tube? Hmmm. How long has this tube amp been out?
  
 With Elise, how much you spend on tubes depends on you. Some of our discoveries of good sounding tubes are quite cheap. You don't have to spend a bomb on tubes. Elise sounds marvellous with anything you throw at her but obviously some better than others.


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> i already have the Ember and you are right all change of my tube have been an upgrade.... but the Zotl is another thing, another topology, tube rolling is possible but  is not the essence of the thing...With all i have already read the Elise is the only serious contender for me... and *perhaps the other pricier feliks audio amp....*


 
 Other pricer Feliks Audio amp are not headphone tube amp. They are stereo tube amp. What is it you're looking for?


----------



## UntilThen

mikeral said:


> Thank you all for comments on Espressivo.
> I was also considedring Icon Audio HP8 MKII, anyone who listened to both Elise and HP8 MKII ?


 

 Sorry Mike, I've not heard the Icon Audio HP8 MKII.


----------



## richard51

untilthen said:


> Wow I'm impressed. Life expectancy of 10-20 years on the tube? Hmmm. How long has this tube amp been out?
> 
> With Elise, how much you spend on tubes depends on you. Some of our discoveries of good sounding tubes are quite cheap. You don't have to spend a bomb on tubes. Elise sounds marvellous with anything you throw at her but obviously some better than others.


 

 i dont doubt that but for my experience with the ember.... it cost to upgrade my tube the same amount that i pay for  the price of the Ember.... each upgrade is at another level with the ember ....it will be the same thing with the Elise i am certain.... some hundred dollars tubes and many times in the 10 years period of listening use.... hence the basic cost with the Zotl is not a real deterrent factor of choice.... the Berning Amplifier is another tube amp  topology  very different than anything else, and the tube rolling affect less the expression....It is possible to upgrade tube but the difference in  sound with the basic tubes is less spectacular than the basic topology in the first place...
  
 p.s. i will read your posts now... i dont want to derail the thread anymore ...thanks to you


----------



## aqsw

Wow, the 2031 is starting to sound real nice. The lcd2.2s never sounded so good.


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> i dont doubt that but for my experience with the ember.... it cost to upgrade my tube the same amount that i pay for  the price of the Ember.... each upgrade is at another level with the ember ....it will be the same thing with the Elise i am certain.... some hundred dollars tubes and many times in the 10 years period of listening use.... hence the basic cost with the Zotl is not a real deterrent factor of choice.... the Berning Amplifier is another tube amp  topology  very different than anything else, and the tube rolling affect less the expression....It is possible to upgrade tube but the difference in  sound with the basic tubes is less spectacular than the basic topology in the first place...
> 
> p.s. i will read your posts now... i dont want to derail the thread anymore ...thanks to you


 

 They are quite different beasts then. That makes your decision harder. I see your point. Buying a tube amp will invariably lead to tube rolling and that 'can' be a costly affair. However I wouldn't miss the tube rolling fun and excitement for any. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wouldn't even count how much I have spend on tubes. I probably could have bought a ED Zeus Deux by now but I have never for a moment regretted my decision. I love the sound I'm getting now. Sure if someone wants to spend little on tubes, I could point them to ideal tubes. They could just buy a pair of driver and power tubes and they will be very happy even with their TOTL headphones.
  
 No problem Richard and you're welcome.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Wow, the 2031 is starting to sound real nice. The lcd2.2s never sounded so good.




Congrats on getting the FDD20 silent by grounding it! Enjoy that 2031 combo on the Elise via your LCD 2.2. 

Superbness is yours...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Wow, the 2031 is starting to sound real nice. *The lcd2.2s never sounded so good*.


 

 LOL aqsw, I really think you're hooked on tube amp sound, in particular Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That in bold is your best review yet.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> LOL aqsw, I really think you're hooked on tube amp sound, in particular Elise.




Boy, is that true. I havent listened to my Liquid Carbon since I burned it in. Don't really want to either.


----------



## pctazhp

richard51 said:


> i dont doubt that but for my experience with the ember.... it cost to upgrade my tube the same amount that i pay for  the price of the Ember.... each upgrade is at another level with the ember ....it will be the same thing with the Elise i am certain.... some hundred dollars tubes and many times in the 10 years period of listening use.... hence the basic cost with the Zotl is not a real deterrent factor of choice.... the Berning Amplifier is another tube amp  topology  very different than anything else, and the tube rolling affect less the expression....It is possible to upgrade tube but the difference in  sound with the basic tubes is less spectacular than the basic topology in the first place...
> 
> p.s. i will read your posts now... i dont want to derail the thread anymore ...thanks to you


 

 Richard51: You mentioned the price difference between the Elise and the Berning amp on the Zoti thread and then concluded you will probably be buying the Zoti. I haven't heard either amp and don't have a clue as to which is "better". The Berning amp certainly comes from a respected lineage and I'm sure is wonderful. But in my experience predicting which is "better" by price difference is not very reliable. I was heavy into vinyl-based, two-channel high end audio in the 70s and 80s, and had easily over $60,000 invested in equipment. I avidly awaited the arrival of Harry Pearson's Absolute Sound every month (long before the internet) and read it cover to cover. I seldom remember seeing the pure expression of joy and satisfaction from one piece of electronic gear that I have seen here on this Elise thread. It is for that reason I have made a "blind" commitment to ordering an Elise.
  
 I did observe that the mention of the Elise on the Zoti thread seemed to bring some immediate defensive comments from those who couldn't imagine the "budget" Elise could possible rival the Berning amp. I don't think you will see much of that here on this thread. These guys  are true believers, but they seem more intent on pushing the limits of the Elise and sharing their experience than they do in evangelizing the Elise.
  
 Anyway, good luck. If you do chose the Berning I'm sure it will bring you years of musical enjoyment, and that is really what all this about.


----------



## UntilThen

Well said pc. The amount we spend on this hobby lol. Just don't think about it. Music is priceless.
  
 Indeed it's all about musical enjoyment. I've no brand loyalty except that which sounds good and affordable to my wallet. If I like a product they will get heaps of praise from me. If I don't, well I'll be 'gentle' with my criticisms lol.


----------



## richard51

pctazhp said:


> Richard51: You mentioned the price difference between the Elise and the Berning amp on the Zoti thread and then concluded you will probably be buying the Zoti. I haven't heard either amp and don't have a clue as to which is "better". The Berning amp certainly comes from a respected lineage and I'm sure is wonderful. But in my experience predicting which is "better" by price difference is not very reliable. I was heavy into vinyl-based, two-channel high end audio in the 70s and 80s, and had easily over $60,000 invested in equipment. I avidly awaited the arrival of Harry Pearson's Absolute Sound every month (long before the internet) and read it cover to cover. I seldom remember seeing the pure expression of joy and satisfaction from one piece of electronic gear that I have seen here on this Elise thread. It is for that reason I have made a "blind" commitment to ordering an Elise.
> 
> I did observe that the mention of the Elise on the Zoti thread seemed to bring some immediate defensive comments from those who couldn't imagine the "budget" Elise could possible rival the Berning amp. I don't think you will see much of that here on this thread. These guys  are true believers, but they seem more intent on pushing the limits of the Elise and sharing their experience than they do in evangelizing the Elise.
> 
> Anyway, good luck. If you do chose the Berning I'm sure it will bring you years of musical enjoyment, and that is really what all this about.


 

 I was first curious by the Zotl for many month and the only choice i had after elimination of other possibilities .... i know about the elise for only the last several days... First I NEVER said that i will purchase some audio gear for his HIGH price factor....Second i am interested in the feliks audio after extensive reading in the last week... the price of the amp above the Elise is the same  than the ZOTL and 4 or five hundred dollars more is not the primary factor of the choice for me  only the sound  quality and the flexibility of the amplification...Third if you read about Berning design you will know the reason why it is an exceptional product like the feliks amplifier are ... i am curious and i had to make some purchase decision... no defensive mood for me... simply people dont like to read or study  before buying , i am not like that ...best regards to you all
  
 p.s. i will buy only in 8 month to come. i hope some review by people who will listen to the 2 products...For the moment zotl is my first choice but feliks audio is a very innovating cie...the enthusiasm about the 2 amp is the same in the audio crowd ...


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> I was first curious by the Zotl for many month and the only choice i had after elimination of other possibilities .... i know about the elise for only the last several days... First I NEVER said that i will purchase some audio gear for his HIGH price factor....Second i am interested in the feliks audio after extensive reading in the last week... the price of the amp above the Elise is the same  than the ZOTL and 4 or five hundred dollars more is not the primary factor of the choice for me  only the sound  quality and the flexibility of the amplification...Third if you read about Berning design you will know the reason why it is an exceptional product like the feliks amplifier are ... i am curious and i had to make some purchase decision... no defensive mood for me... simply people dont like to read before buying , i am not like that ...best regards to you all
> 
> p.s. i will buy only in 8 month to come. i hope some review by people who will listen to the 2 products...For the moment zotl is my first choice but feliks audio is a very innovating cie...


 

 I believe you Richard (those are not my views) and I respect and admire those who research and think things through before parting with their money. Part of the fun of head-fi is in the acquiring. You do all the necessary reading because if you're unable to listen through the gear, then your bet is to rely on impartial reviews.
  
 8 months is ample time to do your research. There could be new products in the interim so nothing is concrete. All the best and as I said feel free to ask me or anyone else here questions concerning Elise.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 Please welcome my FDD20's  I received my marshmallows today and tubes arrived couple of days earlier, this is only for testing purpose with a dummy load (my 9$ cans).
  
 I have couple of questions, I used the adapter of my DAC which was 12V 1.2A. Tube lit up well, there was a hum so I put a ground wire from adapter negative to the Elise's RCA negative. Hum went away, there is no hum until I raise the volume till 1030-11 o'clock, after than I notice a hum that stay until 4 o'clock (music being paused). I was feeding Elise with my mobile phone, since my DAC was off. 
  
 Do you think it is normal? I have 3 x FDD20 tubes, every tube has had such hum problem when you turn up the volume too loud.
  
 Also, when I touch the marshmallows, I hear the hum. Could it be the adapters are faulty?
  
 I will run these tests again and report back when my main HPs HD600 arrive today or tomorrow. Maybe the cans are too cheap to be used in this testing. 
  
 I am sure that tubes are fine cause when I turn the music application off on my mobile, the hum disappears for a short interval and then comes back again.
  
 Thanks, this is my first tube rolling experience


----------



## UntilThen

I can't see from you last picture what you're doing there. Can you take a picture just of your 12V power supply to the fdd20 adapters cables.
  
 With my music paused and my volume at max, I can't hear nothing....ever watch the movie 'Dead Calm' ?
  
 I think you're not properly grounded. I touch my marshmallows and I hear nothing. I even hold the tubes with my bionic fingers and nothing.
  
 I assume the blue wire is ground. Can you connect it to the right RCA. The white ring RCA.
  
 From your picture it looks like it's just resting on top of the red RCA socket.
  
 Bend your ground wire and insert it into the male RCA plug(white) then push into into Elise RCA female socket. This will sandwich the ground wire between the RCA male outer shield with the RCA female outer contact. 
  
 See this...forget the fact it has 2 wires. There should be one ground wire only in your case.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I can't see from you last picture what you're doing there. Can you take a picture just of your 12V power supply to the fdd20 adapters cables.
> 
> With my music paused and my volume at max, I can't hear nothing....ever watch the movie 'Dead Calm' ?
> 
> ...


 
 Brother, I will post pictures later, the amp is where my wife is sleeping LOL
  
 The blue wire is the ground, it twisted it to the Red RCA, it is not just sitting on top of the connector, it is properly secured.
  
 I will shift the blue wire from Red to White RCA and report back. I need to reduce the length of the Blue wire as well, I was just testing it so I did not want to cut the wire in precise length. Maybe it is acting like an antenna. 
  
 However, the first impression of FDD20 is mind blowing. The *level of detail is a killer* 
  
 Thank you once again, you have a dead quiet setup. If I touch the tubes or the marshmallows then they start to rattle my ear drums LOL I will fix it.
  
 Are you use the adapters and the tubes are fine? Considering I do have total silences for brief moments. I am also thinking it is the ground problem. I will buy a 12V adapter today for running it for FDD20s, and then run this setup with my DAC and see where it goes.


----------



## UntilThen

Wait till you have it grounded properly, then it will become a REAL KILLER !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 FDD20 is the best thing since they discovered peanut butter.
  
 Yup mine is total silence in between songs. As I said even volume to max with music pause is deadly silence.
  
 I have on FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G now and it's a mind blower, reader and everything else.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Boy, is that true. I havent listened to my Liquid Carbon since I burned it in. Don't really want to either.


 

 That is a real surprise to me aqsw. I thought LCD2.2 would benefit from a good ss amp but you obviously love it with Elise more. The fact that you love 2031 is understandable because I've heard that and love that and know that very well now. From what I hear, Liquid Carbon is a solid ss amp but your not wanting to turn it on now does not mean that it's not good. It only means you're besotted with Elise sound. Who can blame you.
  
 IMO, Elise with 2031 is approaching galactic status. I do prefer 2 FDD20 though. Try that and tell me what you think when you have the tubes and adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> However, the first impression of FDD20 is mind blowing. The *level of detail is a killer*


 
 It's not too late to find out what a killer Elise is with upgraded tubes. In combination with your new HD600 and Geek DAC, it's like you've just bought Elise. The excitement factor I mean. Probably more as you've not experience what that setup will bring you. I think it will be a very high quality sound. 
  
 You can start doing reviews and impressions. About time.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> That is a real surprise to me aqsw. I thought LCD2.2 would benefit from a good ss amp but you obviously love it with Elise more. The fact that you love 2031 is understandable because I've heard that and love that and know that very well now. From what I hear, Liquid Carbon is a solid ss amp but your not wanting to turn it on now does not mean that it's not good. It only means you're besotted with Elise sound. Who can blame you.
> 
> IMO, Elise with 2031 is approaching galactic status. I do prefer 2 FDD20 though. Try that and tell me what you think when you have the tubes and adapters.




I definately will. Just waiting on mrsx adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I definately will. Just waiting on mrsx adapters.


 

 What happen to the Mazda?  Did you actually get to try it?


----------



## Lorspeaker

ok guys... wheres hypnos....i need your COINS.....follow the foodtrail in my signature... damm...what a bud !!


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> ok guys... wheres hypnos....i need your COINS.....follow the foodtrail in my signature... damm...what a bud !!


 

 What Lors? You selling earbuds? Serious? I like the Chic Le Freak video though. Brings back the memories. Can you sell tubes instead? Like the EL3N? Lots of buyers here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm very impatient now waiting for tubes and adapters to arrive. Meanwhile these are keeping me happy. Very happy.
  
 Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Chatham 6AS7G


----------



## Lorspeaker

Jus sharing the love...this bud is v engrossing..esp with vocals.
Andrea Borcelli 's so consuming..off my samsungfone.
Gonna throw one in each of my bags...n as gifts.


----------



## UntilThen

I love vocals but I'm not sure earbuds will replace the full size overhead headphones that is permanently on my head. A long time ago when I still commute by train, these earbuds might have come in useful but I haven't been on a train for ages. I couldn't possibly use this in the car too as I'd get booked if I have a earbud on whilst driving. Besides there is the custom car audio lol.
  
 Ah I just thought of it....cycling...brilliant. That's when I can use it. If I get attack by magpies it's ok if they steal my earbuds. Problem is I haven't been cycling since Elise came....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Get Raven to buy it. It's cheaper than his $9 cans. 
  
 Lors the vocals coming into my ears now is so good, it's sick. It took me a while to get adjusted to full size over ears headphones. Previously I hate it and will only use earbuds. Now it's the other way round. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Serious the sound is so good now I'm getting sentimental and reflective. I'm starting to get dreams and visions. This is what good music does to you.


----------



## Lorspeaker

....dreams n visions...hmmmm...gonna get my pastor an Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL you say the most outrageous things to make me laugh. I seem to know you from way before. Our paths must have collided.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Amazing you stayed up till now listening. Must be good.
> 
> I'll be listening to Star Wars with EL3N. I have my lasers ready.


 
  
 Never mind the lasers, UT...make it a couple of brandies...for the *shock!*, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


lord raven said:


> I remember someone who returned Espressivo for Elise  This is all you should know, I think it was JV, or Suuup!
> 
> Edit: I just lost a pair of ECC31 on eBay, who got it?


 
  
 Hey LR...with the FDD20s and the EL3Ns, I would not now advise folks to spend _too_ much on the ECC31s...the EL3Ns especially, IMHO, surpass them by a _good_ margin! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





aqsw said:


> Well, I grounded my fdd20 and the hum is gone. How long should the ecc31 burn in?


 
  
 Great news aqsw...now you can _*really*_ enjoy these tubes, lol!  The ECC31s don't need anywhere near as long a burn-in as the FDD20s...probably 30 hrs or so should get them pretty well there...
  


aqsw said:


> Wow, the 2031 is starting to sound real nice. The lcd2.2s never sounded so good.


 
 Glad to see another convert to the 2031...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Edit...a reminder that the 2031 combo _does_ benefit greatly from at least 60 hrs, preferably longer!
  


lorspeaker said:


> ok guys... wheres hypnos....i need your COINS.....follow the foodtrail in my signature... damm...what a bud !!


 
  
 Coins, L?..._*What coins?!!*_...have you not been following _all_ the recent activity, lol? - _*I've none left!*_..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but boy, am I a happy chappie!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw is the greatest surprise. He was going to run balanced into Liquid Carbon and unbalanced into Elise from Hegel. This was his expectations before Elise arrival, obviously he has high hopes for LC. Now he's not even switching on his LC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sounds like his LCD2.2 pairs beautifully with Elise which doesn't surprise me.


----------



## hypnos1

UPDATE on the EL3N...with over 45 hrs on 1 tube and over 35 on #2...
  
 My early reservations about the amazing bass and mids being a bit too much for my GEC CV2523s - and thereby softening the treble energy and sparkle I've come to love from the FDD20s and (especially) the Siemens C3g'S' - have now been totally dispelled...not only that, but I am hearing lower and mid-treble notes that I've never noticed before.
  
 At first I thought treble was in fact 'missing' something...ie. a certain amount of delicious 'splash' and decay. But the more tracks I hear from Genesis' 'Duke', which must contain some of the widest range of treble percussion out there IMHO, I am being re-educated as to what actually makes for superlative treble. I now realise why sometimes my ears would wince slightly at this album - particularly through the Beyer T1s - ie. the uppermost treble was masking some of the lower treble registry. But now, there's a much wider range, and yet again I'm scratching my head in disbelief.
  
 And so now that bass, mids _and_ treble ranges have expanded in these tubes, any _slight_ doubts I may have had previously I can honestly say are pure history. I am happy to say these tubes are confounding me *more* than any others before...and boy, have I been confounded a good few times this past year, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. I can only hope that these findings are replicated to the same degree with others' different set-ups...of this I truly remain fully confident...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 So may your tubes and adapters arrive soon, y'all...I'm already trembling with anticipation for what's heading your way...
  
 ps.  UT.. you like bass with (massive!) impact and control?...well, from what this album is currently feeding into my ears, by this stage of burn-in you'll be needing _*three*_ glasses of brandy, not just _*two, *_lol!!


----------



## UntilThen

H1, I'm really glad what you reported on lower treble range being revealing now. Looks like EL3N has drawn us a perfect FR spectrum. What about soundstage, imaging and forwardness? You may have mentioned about it being less forward than 6N7G in your earlier impressions.
  
 FDD20 appeals to me because it sits somewhere between the livelier 6N7G and the mellower ECC31. It hits the sweet spot in between. If EL3N can multiply several times what I'm hearing from FDD20, I'll be a happy vegemite.


----------



## jerick70

The mailman visited my house today.  I am one happy camper....


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> The mailman visited my house today.  I am one happy camper....


 
 YES!!! Congrats!  Are you #29 ?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> The mailman visited my house today.  I am one happy camper....


 
 Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That's one way to stretch your LCD2.2  What drivers did you have in there?


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> The mailman visited my house today.  I am one happy camper....




Congrats, Jerick!! 

You have joined the LUCKY ones!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Congrats, Jerick!!
> 
> You have joined the LUCKY ones!!


 
 You've joined the insanely happy ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope your tilings are completed because you ain't gonna do any work now.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought another pair of EL3N from P.
  
 This is what he said to me...
  
Thank you for the payment and thank you for sending all of your friends to me. 
The post office already asked why all these parcels to the USA and  Canada and Australia )
  
He's probably left out some countries... you're making P very happy. !


----------



## UntilThen

My EL3N arrived today.


----------



## aqsw

.

My three 6080s came today. $10.00 CDN for the three of them.


----------



## UntilThen

They don't look like the fame graphite plates variety but let us know how they sound.
  
 Chatham 6080WB. This pair is defective and test low.


----------



## UntilThen

These are going for US$184. I got mine for AUD$100.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PIECES-NOS-CHATHAM-6520-TUBES-EXCELLENT-SHAPE-TUNGSOL-VINTAGE-421-A-6080-NOS-/272071592871?hash=item3f58bb0ba7:g:36kAAOSwfZ1WZ8i1


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, I'm really glad what you reported on lower treble range being revealing now. Looks like EL3N has drawn us a perfect FR spectrum.* What about soundstage, imaging and forwardness? *You may have mentioned about it being less forward than 6N7G in your earlier impressions.
> 
> FDD20 appeals to me because it sits somewhere between the livelier 6N7G and the mellower ECC31. It hits the sweet spot in between. If EL3N can multiply several times what I'm hearing from FDD20, I'll be a happy vegemite.


 
  
 Hi UT...actually, this hasn't been quite so straightforward, strangely enough...things have been changing so much, it's been hard to keep up, lol!
  
 So went back to some tracks I hadn't heard for a while, and things became a bit clearer - viz. "Family Man", "Moonlight Shadow" and "Heaven's Open" from Mike Oldfield's album 'Elements'; and "I don't Want to Know", "Oh Daddy" and "Gold Dust Woman" from Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours'....:
  
 Soundstage : very wide, with good depth and height. More like FDD20 than ECC31...intimate, but - for me - slightly less "in your face". At first can appear slightly less open than C3g, especially...but after a while you realise it is actually because there's a lot more filling the space, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Imaging/placement are pinpoint accurate, with wonderful separation between instruments and voices...all balanced to perfection. These tubes also highlight Elise's ability to reproduce _precisely_ where the recording engineer has actually placed all the different elements...for better or worse! And so 'soundstage' can in fact vary quite dramatically, depending on said recording engineer's/producer's preferences.
  
 The 'Rumours' tracks also highlighted this amp's ability to handle Pace, Rhythm and Timing exceptionally well...and even _more_ so with these EL3Ns in the driving seat.
  
 So hopefully this has given a bit more idea of just what kind of magic these tubes are delivering...the "Merlin" touch, to be sure lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ah well, that will have to do for now I'm afraid...it's that time of night (er,_ morning!_) ...
  
 BFN
  
  
  


jerick70 said:


> The mailman visited my house today.  I am one happy camper....


 
  
 Hope you kissed the mailman, lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GREAT!
  


untilthen said:


> My EL3N arrived today.


 
  
 Looks like red is _*in*_, lol!!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Soundstage : very wide, with good depth and height. More like FDD20 than ECC31...intimate, but - for me - slightly less "in your face". At first can appear slightly less open than C3g, especially...but after a while you realise it is actually because there's a lot more filling the space, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Alright I'm convinced. Give it to me NOW. Do you like my EL3N? A special brand.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> YES!!! Congrats!  Are you #29 ?


 

 No I'm #30.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> No I'm #30.


 

 Woohoo we've 30 Elise now. You're pretty young Jerick. Now 1st impressions please.


----------



## jerick70

hypnos1 said:


> Hope you kissed the mailman, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would have been arrested. I think they have some sort of law here that discourages that.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Woohoo we've 30 Elise now. You're pretty young Jerick. Now 1st impressions please.


 

 I'm home from work now so I can have a decent listen.  I only got to listen for a few minutes during lunch.  Long story, I had to wait at the post office for 20 minutes picking up my Elise, so I only had a few minutes to listen.
  
 Big scare when I first turned her on.  I plugged in my Chatham 6AS7Gs and some RCA 6SN7GTs and started listening and about 5 minutes in she started smoking.  YIKES!!!!!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sound was fine though.  I had to go back to work so I turned her off and thought about her all afternoon.  NOOOOOOOOOO she's dying.  Well I got home and removed the non-stock tubes and replaed with stock and the smoking is gone.  I sent Lukasz an email while I was at work too and he replied pretty quickly. hopefully I didn't give him a heart attack. I guess some chemicals on the tube pins or bad tubes?  What do you think?
  
 First impressions....  I love her!!!!!!!  The bass is soooooooooo deeeeep and tight.  My heads going to shake off my shoulders! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The sound stage is incredible!  She drives my LCD2s with aplomb.  This is with the stock tubes though.  I'll give more thoughts as I get accustomed to her. I'm going to need to get an assortment of tubes to see what I like.
  
 What do you think the most revealing tubes that you've listen to with Elsie?


----------



## UntilThen

Omg smoking is a bad sign. Definitely your tubes. My hunch is the drivers as the Chatham 6AS7G looks pretty new.
  
 Revealing tubes are C3G, FDD20, 2031, Mazda 6N7G, Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G. Try the stock Tung Sol drivers with the Chatham 6AS7G and you can isolate which tubes are smoking.


----------



## aqsw

I'm having a real hard time trying out those 6080s. It seems like the 5998s are welded in. They will not come out of my amp.:evil:


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> First impressions....  I love her!!!!!!!  The bass is soooooooooo deeeeep and tight.  My heads going to shake off my shoulders!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like wonder woman to me. I saw your volume knob at 2pm. Is that correct or did I see wrongly? Other than that, your 1st impressions mirrors most of what the rest of us felt. More so maybe with the fame LCD2.2 bass.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Omg smoking is a bad sign. Definitely your tubes. My hunch is the drivers as the Chatham 6AS7G looks pretty new.
> 
> Revealing tubes are C3G, FDD20, 2031, Mazda 6N7G, Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G. Try the stock Tung Sol drivers with the Chatham 6AS7G and you can isolate which tubes are smoking.


 

 I've run a lot of tubes and I've never had a smoking tube before.  So do you think it is a big deal to run the tube while it's smoking?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm having a real hard time trying out those 6080s. It seems like the 5998s are welded in. They will not come out of my amp.


 

 aqsw stop running the 5998 to the ground. Too much of a good thing ain't good for you.


----------



## aqsw

One of my 6fn8 started smoking when I plugged the pair in. I left it and the tube blew about 30 seconds later. So now I have one good tube and two adaptors I'll never use.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I've run a lot of tubes and I've never had a smoking tube before.  So do you think it is a big deal to run the tube while it's smoking?


 

 No definitely not. Don't touch those smoking tubes if you know exactly which ones. They're defective. Bin it.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Sounds like wonder woman to me. I saw your volume knob at 2pm. Is that correct or did I see wrongly? Other than that, your 1st impressions mirrors most of what the rest of us felt. More so maybe with the fame LCD2.2 bass.


 
  
 Yes Wonder Woman she is.  Yes it was at 2 PM.  I was seeing how loud I could listen.  Comfortable is about at 11 o'clock.  
  
 I have the Chatham's in now.  No smoking.  I wonder if it is the RCA 6SN7GTs.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> One of my 6fn8 started smoking when I plugged the pair in. I left it and the tube blew about 30 seconds later. So now I have one good tube and two adaptors I'll never use.


 
  
 I will watch closely then.  No smoking so far though.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Yes Wonder Woman she is.  Yes it was at 2 PM.  I was seeing how loud I could listen.  Comfortable is about at 11 o'clock.
> 
> I have the Chatham's in now.  No smoking.  I wonder if it is the RCA 6SN7GTs.


 

 Ok 11 o'clock is what I expected for the planar LCD2.2
  
 Alright definitely those RCA 6SN7GT that are defective. Return it and don't ever use it again.
  
 Never leave your tube amp on unattended, especially in the initial stage. Just keep an eye on it. Sorry that a bad tube(s) marred your initial experience but I believe your Elise is working fine.
  
 Don't worry about getting more tubes for now. Just listen with the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue and Chatham 6AS7G.
 EL3N is probably the way to go. Wait for me to test out the adapters first. You can get the tubes first.


----------



## aqsw

I paid Peter Gb pounds instead of euros for two el3ns. He refunded my money and I paid him euros. Pounds, Euros, USD, gets to a point, I just know that its going to cost me a lot more than my cdn dollars.:mad:


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I paid Peter Gb pounds instead of euros for two el3ns. He refunded my money and I paid him euros. Pounds, Euros, USD, gets to a point, I just know that its going to cost me a lot more than my cdn dollars.


 

 Well what can you do. Aussie dollar isn't doing too well compared to the other currencies too. If he ask for euro then pay him euro and not some other currencies.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I paid Peter Gb pounds instead of euros for two el3ns. He refunded my money and I paid him euros. Pounds, Euros, USD, gets to a point, I just know that its going to cost me a lot more than my cdn dollars.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Well what can you do. Aussie dollar isn't doing too well compared to the other currencies too. If he ask for euro then pay him euro and not some other currencies.


 
  
 I know right.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Ok 11 o'clock is what I expected for the planar LCD2.2
> 
> Alright definitely those RCA 6SN7GT that are defective. Return it and don't ever use it again.
> 
> ...


 

 Well I'm relieved.  These are old tubes that I've used in my LD MK VI+ so in the bin they go.
  
 Thanks for the tips.  I appreciate it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I had my Rouge Audio Cronus Magnum II go up in smoke a few weeks ago.  It was quite the light show.  It's a really good thing I was there.  One of the KT120s shorted and bam!  It was pretty dramatic, fried quite a few pieces inside the amp.  Scared me to death.  Fortunately it was still under warranty. 
  
 I have a pair of FDD20s coming and I'm looking at the EL3Ns.  I'll end up buying quite a few tubes I think.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I have a pair of FDD20s coming and I'm looking at the EL3Ns.  I'll end up buying quite a few tubes I think.


 
 I'm running a pair of FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G now. It's one of my favourite combination. Lovely sound. Can't get better than this except maybe with the 5998 in place of the Chatham.
  
 You'll need those adapters from Mrs Xuling for your FDD20 and a 12V AC grounded power supply. Depending on your setup, you may or may not have to separately add a ground wire. In my case I don't have to.
  
 With EL3N, you don't need the external power supply. Just the new adapters. I also recommend a pair of Siemens C3G. Exquisite sound. Again the new adapters for C3G are coming.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Congrats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL.  You should see my LCD2s on my head.  I have a huge head.....


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I'm running a pair of FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G now. It's one of my favourite combination. Lovely sound. Can't get better than this except maybe with the 5998 in place of the Chatham.
> 
> You'll need those adapters from Mrs Xuling for your FDD20 and a 12V AC grounded power supply. Depending on your setup, you may or may not have to separately add a ground wire. In my case I don't have to.
> 
> With EL3N, you don't need the external power supply. Just the new adapters. I also recommend a pair of Siemens C3G. Exquisite sound. Again the new adapters for C3G are coming.


 
  
 Nice.  I'm looking forward to the FDD20.  I still need a power supply and adaptors.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> LOL.  You should see my LCD2s on my head.  I have a huge head.....


 
 LOL you kill me there. The LCD2 doesn't look too big after all hahaha.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> LOL you kill me there. The LCD2 doesn't look too big after all hahaha.


 
  
 LOL.  I have a pretty big noggin. 
  
 I love this part of "So I married an Axe Murderer"


----------



## jerick70

I've been listening to the Chatham 6AS7G and stock Tung-sol 6SN7GTBs combo tonight.  I'm very pleased with this combo.  If it gets better than this I'm VERY excited.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> I've been listening to the Chatham 6AS7G and stock Tung-sol 6SN7GTBs combo tonight.  I'm very pleased with this combo.  If it gets better than this I'm VERY excited.




It's going to get much better. Wait till you put in some quality drivers.

I'm still learning too!


----------



## UntilThen

Stock tubes are quite nice sounding but as JV pointed out, the weak link are the Svetlana 6H13Cs. So substituting them with Chatham 6AS7G will make a big difference. Good as the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB are, you'll get much better results with some of the drivers I mentioned. Big difference. You're in for a very nice ride.
  
 aqsw knows now


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> It's going to get much better. Wait till you put in some quality drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Stock tubes are quite nice sounding but as JV pointed out, the weak link are the Svetlana 6H13Cs. So substituting them with Chatham 6AS7G will make a big difference. Good as the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB are, you'll get much better results with some of the drivers I mentioned. Big difference. You're in for a very nice ride.


 
  
 This sounds like a huge upgrade from my LD MK VI+.  Waiting with baited breathe to get the FDD20s coming in the mail!


----------



## UntilThen

You guys are using LCD2.2. I can imagine you're getting some serious bass there. Good quality, controlled bass as well as thunderous. I can also imagine the midrange and vocals to be perfect plus magic treble. It could also speed up your planar magnetic. Elise key strength is great transient response. Very agile.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> You guys are using LCD2.2. I can imagine you're getting some serious bass there. Good quality, controlled bass as well as thunderous. I can also imagine the midrange and vocals to be perfect plus magic treble. It could also speed up your planar magnetic. Elise key strength is great transient response. Very agile.


 
  
 The music is glorious with the LCD 2s and the Elise. Especially the bass. I highly recommend the LCD2 with the Elise.  I've been listening to the Pearl Jam's TEN album to gauge bass response.  I'm very impressed.  The bass is fast and tight.  Makes my ears very happy!
  
 I'm listening to Eric Clapton's "Layla" right now... Beautiful!


----------



## UntilThen

We've not gotten anyone with LCD2.2 using Elise until both of you came along. Your feedback is invaluable. Eric Clapton will sound amazing with Elise and those planar magnetics. I know it sounds great with HE560.


----------



## nojdrof

I tried to contact Feliks audio to order my Elise about a week ago and no response yet. Is this normal? Or should I make contact another way? Thanks


----------



## jerick70

nojdrof said:


> I tried to contact Feliks audio to order my Elise about a week ago and no response yet. Is this normal? Or should I make contact another way? Thanks


 
  
 No this isn't normal at all.  Lukasz is very responsive.  Did you use this email address? info@feliksaudio.pl


----------



## nojdrof

Yes, I'll resend it and see how it goes. Thanks


----------



## jerick70

nojdrof said:


> Yes, I'll resend it and see how it goes. Thanks


 
  
 It could be that they are really busy right now because of the holidays.  I'm not sure though.  I would keep trying to get a hold of them.


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> Yes, I'll resend it and see how it goes. Thanks


 

 nordrof, I'll try sending an email on your behalf but as Jerick says it could be they're very busy or away a few days. Happens to me when I placed my order. They were away on holidays.


----------



## UntilThen

This is an unusual combo but works very well. The Voshokd 6N23P (1975) is a very nice sounding driver tube with an incredible bass. You'll need the 6922 to 6SN7 adapters. I love this small tube. One of my favourite.
  
 This pair of 6N23P cost $33 and the adapters $19.80. As you can see, you don't need expensive tubes to get great sound in Elise. I didn't buy the Amperex 7308. Very expensive.


----------



## UntilThen

My Darkvoice 336se uses the same tubes as Elise. So I use the DV336se as a test bed for my tubes before they go in Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof, Lukasz replied to me. Said your email must have been blocked because he responded to every order request. He'll be pleased to get your details. I'll get in touch with you via PM to get your details.


----------



## Lord Raven

Today I received my first ever decent headphones, Sennheiser HD600 from Australia 
  
 Plugged it into Elise and voila, music never felt this sweet before. Plugged it into onboard amplifier of my DAC and had to raise the digital volume knob to almost maximum to attain a decent volume level for a 300 Ohms HD600, I guess I would never be needing this output ever again  Unless I buy some low Z cans.
  
 I revoke my initial impression of Geek Pulse SFi's sound quality being superior than Elise, the amplifier felt weak and dry, with no life in the music, let's just say SS sounding. This is my 2 minutes impression into Geek Pulse SFi, switched back to Elise and music started pouring from all sides, the sparkle came back with the FDD20s, the strength of an amplifier, precision and authority surprised me within couple of songs.
  
 I am still struggling with a very faint hum that is present at all times, since I listen to Jazz and Classical with a lot of silences, I can feel it humming in the background. I sorted my ground between heater and Elise, the hum has minimized and is almost gone. I raise the volume to the maximum, no hum. But I still feel something humming in the distant background, I can tell because when I switch off the Elise I don't hear it.
  
 I think I need a better 12V power supply or maybe the adapters from Mrs-X are faulty, when I touch them then there is a loud hum, same thing when I touch the tubes. The adapters are not fixed, if I twist them from their base, they rotate a little. Is it normal? I am afraid I am going to have to write to Mrs-X on this issue, tubes are silent, I don't think they have anything wrong with them, they were new when they arrived.
  
 I am going to scrape their paddles a little to get the decades of rust off them. They look pretty neat to me though. 
  
 Then I rolled a pair of ECC31's, unfortunately the adapters from suzier were faulty, having feedback and hum issues. Lucky to get another pair from them soon. Looks like I am stuck with noise issues but then again I can roll some stock tubes without adapters and get decent SQ from Elise.
  
 Cheers
  
 Edit: More impressions on the way


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> *Today I received my first ever decent headphones, Sennheiser HD600 from Australia *
> 
> *Plugged it into Elise and voila, music never felt this sweet before.* Plugged it into onboard amplifier of my DAC and had to raise the digital volume knob to almost maximum to attain a decent volume level for a 300 Ohms HD600, I guess I would never be needing this output ever again  Unless I buy some low Z cans.
> 
> I revoke my initial impression of Geek Pulse SFi's sound quality being superior than Elise, the amplifier felt weak and dry, with no life in the music, let's just say SS sounding. This is my 2 minutes impression into Geek Pulse SFi, switched back to Elise and music started pouring from all sides, the sparkle came back with the FDD20s, the strength of an amplifier, precision and authority surprised me within couple of songs.


 
 Congrats on the discovery of beautiful music from Elise with a proper headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and good sounding tubes off course.
  
 Glad you also realise that the amp from the Geek is no where near Elise in sonic brilliance. It is the same with the amp in my NAD D1050, which on it's own is very capable but once you compared it with Elise, you realise what a difference they are.
  
 Hum however faint is due to not grounding properly. The feedback when you touch the adapters and tubes are also due to grounding issues. In my case, all I need is a 3 pin 12V AC grounded power supply. I don't even need a separate ground wire. The slight shift or movement in the base of the adapter is normal. Happens in mine too, I just checked. However I don't get feedback when I touch the adapters or tubes. I reckon you need a proper 12V 3 to 6A AC power adapter. Get a 3 pin grounded one but that's no guarantee that you'll be hum free, as happened with JV's unit. In which case, attach a separate ground wire and connect it properly and you'll be free of hum.
  
 Even so, with the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and Chatham 6AS7G, your HD600 will sound marvellous. You'll need to burn in the HP of course and the tubes. Will wait to hear more impressions from you.


----------



## UntilThen

These Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome base are my 1st ever purchased tubes. I bought them for Elise way before I got her. Now with Chatham 6AS7G, they sound pretty good. Even better than the stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. Sylvania tend to sound clear and bright. I like the lively tone.


----------



## Suuup

I received 7 packages today. Imagine my astonishment. 
  
 In one of the packages were my cone feet for Elise.

  

  
 To my surprise, Elise actually seems quite stable on top of these. They don't skid easily, though it's not impossible to make Elise skid. There's no attachment, so it's only Elise's weight that's keeping it down. 
  
 So, do they work? Nope, not at all. They were supposed to remove vibration, so I could be free of microphonics. Depending on which tubes I'm rolling, I can hear the vibrations through Elise when I move my mouse across my mousepad. Same with typing on the keyboard. It's not loud or anything, but I'd still like to get rid of it. This wasn't the solutions. They do absolutely nothing, except look bling.
  
 What else did I receive? These babies:




  
  
  
 They're Fivre 55's AKA CV2535. Supposedly it's the predecessor to UTs 6A6, which itself is the predecessor to the 6N7G, one of the favorites in this thread. Certainly a favorite of mine. I haven't found any adapters for them on Ebay. Luckily though, I received this:

  
 Left is an 8 pin base, middle is copper wire, and right is a socket for the C3G. I'll try to make my own adapters for the CV2535. One more issue. The CV2535 requires 2.5V and 2A for heating. I don't have a power supply that only supplies 2.5V. Luckily, I also got these:
  

 I'm ready to get some DIY experience.


----------



## nephilim

Great news, Suup! The Fivres are beautiful! Looking forward to your adapters... I am currently trying to get a replacement for the ugly white tubes on xulingmrs FDD20 (and EL3N) adapters and will give those a try as well.
  
 Oh, before I forget... #11 is back. Together with the hum it seems. I am currently running it with the stock tubes, i.e. the same configuration they claimed to have fixed. Maybe it disappears but I am not very optimistic.


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> Great news, Suup! The Fivres are beautiful! Looking forward to your adapters... I am currently trying to get a replacement for the ugly white tubes on xulingmrs FDD20 (and EL3N) adapters and will give those a try as well.
> 
> Oh, before I forget... #11 is back. Together with the hum it seems. I am currently running it with the stock tubes, i.e. the same configuration they claimed to have fixed. Maybe it disappears but I am not very optimistic.


 
 You still have hum Neph?! That's not good. Have you contacted Lukasz about it?


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> I received 7 packages today. Imagine my astonishment.
> 
> In one of the packages was my cone feet for Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Sup how's it going?  It looks like your are doing really good from the pics!  AAAAHHHHH Beautiful!  Audiophile p0rn!
  
  
 On your EMI interference issues.  The most likely culprit is the video card in your computer or it could be your mouse.  What type of computer do you have and do you have an add-in video card or is it built onto the motherboard? Also, try a wireless mouse and see if it fixes the issue.


----------



## UntilThen

You're going to be occupied Suuup. Interesting project for you. The Fivre CV2535 internal plates are identical to the Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G, both of which I have. Currently spinning 6A6 now and one of my favourite driver.
  
 I don't think I will try those feet. I never have any vibrations or microphonic problems. I think my body absorb it all.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Alright I'm convinced. Give it to me NOW. Do you like my EL3N? A special brand.


 
  
 Special brand indeed, UT...have you plugged it in yet?!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... Mind you, I bet it doesn't sound like my pure silver/single-crystal copper, fairy dusted tubes doing incredible things to my HDTracks hi-res sampler pieces, lol!! - sorry to keep rubbing things in, my friend (still?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Thought it was about time to see just what these EL3Ns can _really _do....$3000 amp?...perhaps that should now be $*4*,000?!! I know I can sometimes be accused of going a tad OTT, but the difference I am now getting from previous best must surely be _somewhere _near such a hi-end animal, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 The recording of Cassandra Wilson's "Another Country" has converted me to Jazz _*big time*_...if this is indeed what _good_ Jazz can sound like, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...or is it simply this setup taking it to stratospheric levels?! The gorgeous mids and extra lower treble are making this gal's voice even _more_ silkily seductive than ever....oooohhhh....
  
 And Jimmy Webb's "P.F. Sloane" - not to mention JD Souther's "The Sad Cafe" - have reminded me that not all 'Pop' is moronic rubbish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...As with Cassandra, voice positioning is just perfect, and surrounded by a 'Golden Fleece' of instrumental sound...'wrapped' in it, even - sensational!
  
 Then I thought it was time for a real _blast_, so on went a hi-res rendition of Bach's famous 'Toccata and Fugue' for organ...well, I'm still floating around somewhere inside that church...bones still tingling like never before!! The organ's _natural_ reverb - as opposed to studio-engineered - fair blew me away, and reminded me of the tangible difference between analog sound and that digitally created...even though the recording is in a digital format LOL!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...simply stunning...
  
 Could say more, but I want to continue basking quietly in the glow that is warming my entire being right now...perhaps this is _true_ Heaven? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 BFN
  
  


jerick70 said:


> I would have been arrested. I think they have some sort of law here that discourages that.


 
  
 I'm quite sure that in this _exceptional_ case, there would be grounds for mitigation, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and if not, there darned well _should_ be!!...CHEERS!).
  
 BTW, glad to see you too are already smitten with Elise...just hope you sort that grounding issue soon...but the crowning glory of the EL3N is *no need for external PS!*











....HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## nephilim

suuup said:


> You still have hum Neph?! That's not good. Have you contacted Lukasz about it?


 

 Not yet... the amp is running for 15 minutes and I wanted to let it fully heat up. But the behavior is unchanged... 30s after switching it on the hum appears. At least it is not louder than before.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Hey Sup how's it going?  It look like your are doing really good from the pics!  AAAAHHHHH Beautiful!  Audiophile p0rn!
> 
> 
> On your EMI interference issues.  The most likely culprit is the video card in your computer or it could be your mouse.  What type of computer do you have and do you have an add-in video card or is it built onto the motherboard? Also, try a wireless mouse and see if it fixes the issue.


 
 Hey Jerick! It's going good! Actually managed to find a really good job and a beautiful girl - all in one night. 
  
 About the noise issues, it's not EMI. It's the tubes picking up on the vibrations in my table.


----------



## jerick70

@Suuup That's great to hear!  Life is going good for you!  Especially the beautiful girl! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I had the exact same issue yesterday when I got my Elise.  Not with the keyboard though.  I changed my mouse to a wireless mouse and the problem was gone.  So I thought that might be your issue, but guess not.


----------



## nephilim

I just fired up the 6BL7GT - the current spike during warming up is noticeable - up to 5A for the first 20s and then a decrease to 3A.
  
 Enough gain for the HD800? Yes 
  
 Sound impressions? Too early - and I still have the stock power tubes running - for safety reasons.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I woke up to news of H1 finding himself in stratospheric levels, Suuup finding himself double happiness (I hope you share Elsie with this beautiful girl) and Nep...
  
 Nep what tubes are you using that is causing hum now?


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Wow I woke up to news of H1 finding himself in stratospheric levels, Suuup finding himself double happiness (I hope you share Elsie with this beautiful girl) and Nep...
> 
> Nep what tubes are you using that is causing hum now?


 

 I just started with Melz & 6BL7GT with stock power tubes. Will try more combinations throughout the evening.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> That's great to hear!  Life is going good for you!  Especially the beautiful girl!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hm. It might be possible that your wireless mouse doesn't send as many vibrations through the table - possibly from more slick pads underneath? My mouse is quite worn, especially the pads underneath. 
  
 Okay, I just tried another mouse. This is significantly less audible. It's definitely from vibration though. I still think the best solution is to isolate the Elise from vibrations.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I jsut started with Melz & 6BL7GT with stock power tubes. Will try more combinations throughout the evening.


 

 Yup perhaps go back to fully stock tubes and see if there's hum. That's your benchmark and one that Lukasz tried on.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Special brand indeed, UT...have you plugged it in yet?!...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, you're killing me. Ain't I glad that I have 2 pairs of new EL3Ns coming my way. $4000? Haha, my tube amp has just appreciated big time. Btw Lukasz said he's doing well and trying to make everyone merrier for Christmas. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 It's almost one year anniversary for Elise and the excitement is still building big time for everyone. I hope you've not forgotten my presents in your excitement.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I received 7 packages today. Imagine my astonishment.
> 
> In one of the packages were my cone feet for Elise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wish you all the very best in your venture, S...look forward to your results...remember - _*take your time, lol!!*_...Cheers!
  


untilthen said:


> Wow I woke up to news of H1 finding himself in stratospheric levels, Suuup finding himself double happiness (I hope you share Elsie with this beautiful girl) and Nep...
> 
> Nep what tubes are you using that is causing hum now?


 
  
 Awake UT?...isn't it about 4am where you are, lol?...(thought _I_ was crazy!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Anyway, while I'm still basking in the glow, just thought I'd mention a quickie that should have been added to my previous findings re. the 'Rumours' tracks...ie. concerning acoustic _and_ electric guitar...the former's richness and tonal extension in the strings has never sounded so full (reinforced especially by that in the hi-res tracks I mentioned), and the energy, slam and 'scream' of the latter was quite startling (without actually scrambling my poor brain, lol!)...
  
 Just thought I'd let you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so now you can go have a wash, and get your breakfast!...I'm now getting my _dinner__!_...


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Yup perhaps go back to fully stock tubes and see if there's hum. That's your benchmark and one that Lukasz tried on.


 

 The Melz are my "stock" drivers. I ran the amp exactly as I received it from Lukasz. I will test more tubes before bugging Lukasz again.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> H1, you're killing me. Ain't I glad that I have 2 pairs of new EL3Ns coming my way. $4000? Haha, my tube amp has just appreciated big time. Btw Lukasz said he's doing well and trying to make everyone merrier for Christmas.


 

 Hmmmmm??? Three days ago Lukasz said I was in the number 2 slot. Maybe there is hope for me !!! Well, at least it should be a good New Years ))


----------



## UntilThen

Don't you think 4:30am is too early for breakfast? For almost 2 months now, my excitement hasn't been contained. It's bubbling over. My family will have to tear me away from Elise tonight for Star Wars premier in the cinemas.


----------



## Lord Raven

If I play the stock 6SN7GTB, there is no noise or hum even at full volume, when I plug ECC31-6SN7 adapters, there is faith hum. This clearly tells me that these adapters are faulty or made with cheap material. Do I really need Mrs-X's gold plated adapters now? Do they sound hum and noise free?
  
 I just opened the power board that is used to power up Elise, DAC and the heater PS. Looks like there is no connection on the ground wire, what should I do in this case? The Elise PS cord is not grounded one, the plug is same as shown in the picture. 
  
 With the FDD20's there is a faint hum as well, if I touch the adapters, the hum gets louder. Mrs-X has to answer now :/
  
 I am guessing, if stock drivers are hum/noise free that means I don't have any issue with Elise or power socket. It's just the adapters, what do you guys think?


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> If I play the stock 6SN7GTB, there is no noise or hum even at full volume, when I plug ECC31-6SN7 adapters, there is faith hum. This clearly tells me that these adapters are faulty or made with cheap material. Do I really need Mrs-X's gold plated adapters now? Do they sound hum and noise free?
> 
> I just opened the power board that is used to power up Elise, DAC and the heater PS. Looks like there is no connection on the ground wire, what should I do in this case? The Elise PS cord is not grounded one, the plug is same as shown in the picture.
> 
> ...


 
 I had a faint hum like you, with the black adapters from Mrs Xuling. Got the gold-plated ones, and it seems to have solved the problem. Still hums if I touch the adapters though. With the black ones, the hum increased just as I neared my hand to the adapters. Not so with the gold plated ones.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> The Melz are my "stock" drivers. I ran the amp exactly as I received it from Lukasz. I will test more tubes before bugging Lukasz again.


 
 You have the premier stock tubes. You might be the only one. 
  


lord raven said:


> If I play the stock 6SN7GTB, there is no noise or hum even at full volume, when I plug ECC31-6SN7 adapters, there is faith hum. This clearly tells me that these adapters are faulty or made with cheap material. Do I really need Mrs-X's gold plated adapters now? Do they sound hum and noise free?
> 
> I just opened the power board that is used to power up Elise, DAC and the heater PS. Looks like there is no connection on the ground wire, what should I do in this case? The Elise PS cord is not grounded one, the plug is same as shown in the picture.
> 
> ...


 
 LR, I'm really surprised that your Elise power cord is not grounded with 3 pins. You should get one..all PC power cords come with 3 pins. 
 Secondly get a good power extension board that is surge resistant and grounded 3 pins. 
  
 Mrs Xu Ling gold adapters for ECC31 are superb. Hum and noise free. Buy with confidence. I definitely recommend those.
  
 Your stock tubes may be hum free but that's no excuse for not ensuring that Elise is indeed grounded.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> LR, I'm really surprised that your Elise power cord is not grounded with 3 pins. You should get one..all PC power cords come with 3 pins.
> Secondly get a good power extension board that is surge resistant and grounded 3 pins.
> 
> Mrs Xu Ling gold adapters for ECC31 are superb. Hum and noise free. Buy with confidence. I definitely recommend those.


 
 That's not the case in every country UT. My PC (and Elise for that matter) power supply came without a ground pin. Seems to be the same with LR.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> That's not the case in every country UT. My PC (and Elise for that matter) power supply came without a ground pin. Seems to be the same with LR.


 

 I'm truly surprised then. What about those in US and UK? It's unheard of with big appliances or high voltages in Australia not having a grounded power cord.
  
 Perhaps that's the reason why I'm humphrey !!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Hmmmmm??? Three days ago Lukasz said I was in the number 2 slot. Maybe there is hope for me !!! Well, at least it should be a good New Years ))


 

 I'm excited for you pct. Delivery times with Christmas and New Year can be bad but you'll definitely be getting Elise in the new year. I would suggest from others experiences, that you start with the stock tubes first. At least to verify that everything is working properly before moving on to other tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





suuup said:


> I had a faint hum like you, with the black adapters from Mrs Xuling. Got the gold-plated ones, and it seems to have solved the problem. Still hums if I touch the adapters though. With the black ones, the hum increased just as I neared my hand to the adapters. Not so with the gold plated ones.


 

 I've no problems with the black or gold adapters, whether from suzier or Mrs XuLing. Neither touching it with my fingers nor putting my mobile phone next to it while surfing the net will produce any interferences. Sounds too good to be true?


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> With the FDD20's there is a faint hum as well, if I touch the adapters, the hum gets louder. Mrs-X has to answer now :/


 
 It could be your adapters having problems but I doubt very much. I have bought from Mrs Xu Ling these adapters:-
  
 octal socket savers for 6SN7
 6SN7 to 6922
 6CG7 to 6SN7 
 6922 to 6SN7
 6A6 to 6SN7
 FDD20 to 6SN7
 ECC31/6N7G to 6SN7
  
 all my adapters work flawlessly. The final test will be the EL3N and C3G adapters 
 I'm overflowing with adapters.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm excited for you pct. Delivery times with Christmas and New Year can be bad but you'll definitely be getting Elise in the new year. I would suggest from others experiences, that you start with the stock tubes first. At least to verify that everything is working properly before moving on to other tubes.


 
 Thanks UT. I'm also getting excited and I will certainly take your advice about starting with the stock tubes.
  
 I'm always impressed when our postal service is able to deliver a package sent from with the USA - let alone from overseas. My wife is Ukrainian and it takes 3 weeks for us to get anything mailed from there. I hope the Polish mail service is a little faster.
  
 Actually Ukraine still uses the old Julian calendar for religious holidays and thus doesn't celebrate Christmas until January 7. We celebrate both dates so I've got two chances of getting the Elise before Christmas. lol
  
 Fortunately, Poland is a Roman Catholic country and celebrates Christmas on December 25, so Lukasz wasn't referring to January 7 when told you he was trying to make everyone happy by Christmas))
  
 In the meantime, I've been getting some good burn-in time on my C3Gs using my LittleDot and have made some modest upgrades of cables. I'm actually getting pretty amazing results. The HD700s really are pretty impressive in how they respond to upstream changes.
  
 Thanks so much for sharing your experiences with us. Your enthusiasm is infectious!!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, you're killing me. Ain't I glad that I have 2 pairs of new EL3Ns coming my way. $4000? Haha, my tube amp has just appreciated big time. Btw Lukasz said he's doing well and trying to make everyone merrier for Christmas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...I did warn you that Oskari was to blame for encouraging my cruel side, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....actually, not really fair to blame the poor guy - it's simply my head being totally scrambled by such unexpected findings...been fair knocked off me perch, to put it mildly!
  
 Wise fellow, getting 2 pairs..._very_ wise indeed, IMHO...
  
 And yes, it certainly sounds like the poor Feliks-Audio guys are working flat out - I don't think they ever expected such a response, so quickly, to their new baby. I should really feel sorry for them (and I do...a bit!), but then I think of the joy and excitement she brings to more and more of us, and I realise I must simply live with the guilt, lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...God Bless 'em, every one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Christmas presents?...they went by the board _*ages*_ ago, I fear! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Lord Raven

I am using this adapter that came with my WiFi router, no internet while FDD20s are playing  This one does not have a ground pin, see the plastic 3rd pin. 
  
 Should I take a chance and buy this? It looks like grounded pin is there on it, eBay link.
  
 Regarding Elise, the power cord is only 2 pin, I need to get that 3rd pin connected to the third pin of heater adapter.
  
 Lastly, my DAC is using a similar 12V adapter without 3rd pin, should this worry me?
  
  

  
  
 I am sure Mrs-X is a good seller selling quality products but in my case it did not work so well. I have to buy from her the ECC31 and EL3N adapters, how can I challenge her? LOL
  
 I will troubleshoot my electricals further, if nothing works out then I will write to her for a replacement or something, I hope she will entertain my request.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL, I log in to a new look Head-Fi and got disorientated.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks so much for sharing your experiences with us. Your enthusiasm is infectious!!!


 
 You're too kind my friend. My pleasure always to share with all of you and vice versa I'm sure. My enthusiasm pales in comparison to H1. He has a way with sharing that will draws you in. As is always the case, he is right. Just look at Elise, followed by tubes, C3G, ECC31, FDD20, 2031 and now EL3N.
  
 You're lucky to have 2 Christmas holidays. Look after those C3Gs. The only thing fragile about them is the glass. That is why the metal shield is there. Most of us prefer to remove the shield though because we love bling. If you read up on C3G, you'll know they are specially made by Siemens, Telefunken for the German Post and not for the public, to be use for as amplification repeaters for long distance telephony. It's high amplification, low noise and distortion, plus superbly constructed, make them ideal for that purpose. It was only later when tubes became replaced that these were sold to the public. With a claim 10,000 hours of service life, they should give you pleasure for a long time.
  
 Yup your HD700 will see it's glory moment with Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I am using this adapter that came with my WiFi router, no internet while FDD20s are playing  This one does not have a ground pin, see the plastic 3rd pin.
> 
> Should I take a chance and buy this? It looks like grounded pin is there on it, eBay link.
> 
> ...


 
 That 12V adapter from that eBay link is perfect. Looks grounded to me alright. Same as mine and I'm very grounded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Buy it without a 2nd thought.
  
 Your power cord for Elise may only have 2 pins but there's no stopping you from buying a power cord with 3 pins. You can buy PC power cords with 3 pins quite cheaply. Readily available everywhere. My Elise came without a power cord. Lukasz told me before hand that he has trouble finding an Australian power cord of a good quality. So I told him to send it without. I simply use a spare PC power cord with 3 pins. Voila, it's now a super computer and not just a tube amp.
  
 Don't worry about the DAC hahaha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having said that my NAD D1050 came with a 3pin grounded power cord.


----------



## nephilim

Received feedback from Lukasz - we agree that I should give it some more time to see if it improves (and consider to get used to it). The hum is there but not as strong as before... so their maintenance was beneficial.
  
 The 6BL7GT started to make some noise so I decided to burn them in tomorrow and enjoy some music with the FDD20 now. The external power supply works flawlessly, so switching from 6.3V & 4A to 12.6V & 0.78A is a matter of seconds.
  
 This record sounds wonderful via Elise & HD800
  

  
 I have contacted a supplier to make some adapter casings for P8A sockets and the first quotation is not cheap but affordable. Let's see how this turns out.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well UT...I did warn you that Oskari was to blame for encouraging my cruel side, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're right, it's not fair to blame Oskari because he's likeable, loveable and knowable. BUT I'm about to prove to him that the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G do not sound the same despite their identical appearance.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Received feedback from Lukasz - we agree that I should give it some more time to see if it improves (and consider to get used to it). The hum is there but not as strong as before... so their maintenance was beneficial.
> 
> The 6BL7GT started to make some noise so I decided to burn them in tomorrow and enjoy some music with the FDD20 now. The external power supply works flawlessly, so switching from 6.3V & 4A to 12.6V & 0.78A is a matter of seconds.
> 
> I have contacted a supplier to make some adapter casings for P8A sockets and the first quotation is not cheap but affordable. Let's see how this turns out.


 
 Yo Nep...you're tempting me to buy that external power supply. I can just switch those dials all day. It's a great toy.
  
 What I want from you are some impressions of the 2 FDD20 with 5998.
  
 With the adapter casings, I suppose you still have to solder the wires right or are they ready to plug in the EL3Ns.


----------



## nephilim

The casing I hope to get is a replacement for the white casing of xulingmrs adapters. I will also try to remove the "ears" of the p8a sockets. I guess I know which wires to use but will ask H1 first.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I'll PM you the details which H1 gave me.


----------



## mordy

Hi nephilim,
  
 I am really curious about your experiences with the 6BL7GT tubes. They do run very hot, but I am using my Tower of Pisa adapter with several pieces together and this insulates the chassis from the heat. In addition, I am using a 15A voltage regulator and a 15A power supply.
  
 Presently I am using one 6BL7GTA together with one FDD20. (Mullard 6080 power tubes). This results in spectacular performance - the best I have gotten out of my Elise (better than the 20/31 and Mazda 6N7G). There is outstanding clarity and detail, instrument separation, sound stage, mid range,  bass and treble, and timbre. Plus musicality.
  
 The only caveat is that the BL tube does not play as loud as the FDD, and I have to compensate with the balance control.
  
 (I have to point out that I am using the Elise as a preamp and listening through speakers - not headphones.)
  
 WOW!


----------



## richard51

this new head fi is not better.....worst for me......


----------



## UntilThen

Sneak preview of the Fivre 6N7G brown base that came this morning. I was in the shower and this box was left outside my door but there was another card asking me to pick up a parcel from the Post Office. A check of the tracking number tells me that it is the 'Joybringer', Visseaux 6N7G. So that will be collected later today.
  
 The Fivre 6N7G brown base came courtesy of Suuup who manage to find a pair and have the seller send it to my address. Thanks Suuup.
 I'll refrain from posting impressions until I have several hours into it and compared it with the normal Fivre 6N7G, Mazda 6N7G and Philips Miniwatt FDD20s, using various power tubes.
  
 A picture and I think they look lovely. However this particular pair has a lower band of chrome and a upper band of smoke glass. The 1st pair of brown base that we saw have all smoke glass and brown letterings which I thought look really classic. Nevertheless this pair looks gorgeous too. They look exotic in the flesh. Like a taller version of ECC31 and the brown base looks like GEC 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Test results are very good. Strong readings. One tube has the top plastic partially snap off and is at the bottom of the tube. Turning the tube I can hear some sound but it does not affect the music. I power it on and it works like a charm, with some initial pops and crackles but now it's dead silent. No hum. Not in my dictionary. Pause in music and volume to the max and it's still dead silence. All I hear are my own heartbeats.


----------



## Oskari

richard51 said:


> this new head fi is not better.....worst for me......


 
  
 Yeah. It's a disaster.


----------



## UntilThen

Still not reporting on the Fivre 6N7G brown base yet. All I can say is my ears are getting some serious music being pump through from several hours of listening to the best tubes. If you get Elise and these tubes, you should be happy forever. And I mean forever.


----------



## DecentLevi

@UntilThen please remember to mention my name (with an @ symbol so I just like I did yours) so I can get notification when you post your impressions after finally getting to try your EL3N's on the Elise.
  
@hypnos1 I just read your impressions that those tubes take it to a $4,000 perceived value - which tubes were you rolling with the EL3Ns? 
  
 Yep you guys's passion is infectious - I just noticed this is the 2nd most active thread on Head-Fi (front page link on right side)
*EDIT: 3rd most*


----------



## UntilThen

If my ears can withstand these tubes onslaught, I'll mention your name @DecentLevi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Right now is a neck to neck race between Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Fivre 6N7G brown base. I still can't decide which I like better. Might have to toss a coin. Tried it with both 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G but I prefer 5998 through HE560.
  
 EL3N? Never heard of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in sonic heaven right now. I've forgotten about EL3N....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 H1 is rolling Chatham 6AS7G and GEC 6AS7G with those EL3Ns.
  
 3rd most? You've been posting too much here Levi.


----------



## UntilThen

Would you believe this? The winning bid for this pair of Fivre 6N7G is US$241.50
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/WONDERFUL-RARE-MINT-PERFECT-PAIR-6N7G-FIVRE-ECC31-CV1956-BROWN-base-NOS-NIB-/272024857565?hash=item3f55f1ebdd%3Ag%3AHi8AAOSw9mFWKjdo&nma=true&si=9G1UkDpJEhqCBSejjlgCIKIdrTU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 who bought it?    says brown base but the base isn't brown...looks exactly like my normal pair of Fivre 6N7G.
  
 An overview of Italian vacuum tube manufacturers if you're interested...including Fivre.
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/an_overview_of_italian_vacuum_tube_manufacturers.html
  
 That's what FIVRE stands for *F abbrica* *I* *taliana* *V* *alvole* *R* adio *E* *lettriche*


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Still not reporting on the Fivre 6N7G brown base yet. All I can say is my ears are getting some serious music being pump through from several hours of listening to the best tubes. If you get Elise and these tubes, you should be happy forever. And I mean forever.



Happy to hear you finally recieved them! I was actually getting worried last night. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> Received feedback from Lukasz - we agree that I should give it some more time to see if it improves (and consider to get used to it). The hum is there but not as strong as before... so their maintenance was beneficial.
> 
> The 6BL7GT started to make some noise so I decided to burn them in tomorrow and enjoy some music with the FDD20 now. The external power supply works flawlessly, so switching from 6.3V & 4A to 12.6V & 0.78A is a matter of seconds.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi neph...sorry to hear you still have slight hum - you are _so_ unlucky! Let's just hope even that eases off with time.
 Looks like UT has sent you wiring details - what a helpful chap he is, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Any further queries, just PM me...and...GOOD LUCK!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> *You're right, it's not fair to blame Oskari because he's likeable, loveable and knowable*. BUT I'm about to prove to him that the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G do not sound the same despite their identical appearance.


 
  
 Hi UT...I'm sure Oskari doesn't mind - he knows me well enough...from way back now, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I hold this gentleman in the _highest _regard...but ssshhh...don't want to give him more fame!! ...too modest is he, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


mordy said:


> Hi nephilim,
> 
> I am really curious about your experiences with the 6BL7GT tubes. They do run very hot, but I am using my Tower of Pisa adapter with several pieces together and this insulates the chassis from the heat. In addition, I am using a 15A voltage regulator and a 15A power supply.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi m...now _you_ have got me real excited as to how you will find the magic of EL3N compared to your 6BL/20 combo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (But the ELs look _*much*_ prettier, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  


untilthen said:


> Would you believe this? *The winning bid for this pair of Fivre 6N7G is US$241.50*
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WONDERFUL-RARE-MINT-PERFECT-PAIR-6N7G-FIVRE-ECC31-CV1956-BROWN-base-NOS-NIB-/272024857565?hash=item3f55f1ebdd%3Ag%3AHi8AAOSw9mFWKjdo&nma=true&si=9G1UkDpJEhqCBSejjlgCIKIdrTU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> ...


 
  
 WHAT, UT?...this is sheer _*nonsense*_ IMHO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but then, we now have something that I'm sure you will - *soon, hopefully!* - agree simply blows them right out of the water...and for relative peanuts, lol). Your brown-base Fivres do look lovely, though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


untilthen said:


> You're too kind my friend. My pleasure always to share with all of you and vice versa I'm sure. My enthusiasm pales in comparison to H1. He has a way with sharing that will draws you in. As is always the case, he is right. Just look at Elise, followed by tubes, C3G, ECC31, FDD20, 2031 and now EL3N.
> 
> You're lucky to have 2 Christmas holidays. Look after those C3Gs. The only thing fragile about them is the glass. That is why the metal shield is there. Most of us prefer to remove the shield though because we love bling. If you read up on C3G, you'll know they are specially made by Siemens, Telefunken for the German Post and not for the public, to be use for as amplification repeaters for long distance telephony. It's high amplification, low noise and distortion, plus superbly constructed, make them ideal for that purpose. It was only later when tubes became replaced that these were sold to the public. With a claim 10,000 hours of service life, they should give you pleasure for a long time.
> 
> Yup your HD700 will see it's glory moment with Elise.


 
  
 Thanks UT...it is _you_ who are too kind, lol. But @pctzahp is right - your enthusiasm is indeed boundless...witness over 2100 posts in just a matter of months!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...WELL DONE!...(ps. hope you did manage to steal yourself away from Elise for the sake of Star Wars...not to mention home harmony, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Re. the C3g, your recent advice on how to safely remove the tube from its adapter was a useful and timely reminder of just how careful we need to be when either removing _*or inserting*_ these base-fragile creatures. Even though mentioned many times before, it doesn't harm to repeat the warning...*NEVER 'roll' the tube*, with the usual side-to-side action. *Straight *in or out action only - removal helped by the use of a thin blade (screwdriver) lever action between tube base and socket, gradually working your way around, as you showed.
  
 CHEERS everyone...
  
 ps....forgotten about EL3N?...I can soon change that, my friend/mon ami/amico mio/mi amigo!!


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> @UntilThen please remember to mention my name (with an @ symbol so I just like I did yours) so I can get notification when you post your impressions after finally getting to try your EL3N's on the Elise.
> 
> @hypnos1 I just read your impressions that those tubes take it to a $4,000 perceived value - *which tubes were you rolling with the EL3Ns? *
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL...you know, even after all this time, I didn't realise that's how you're able to initiate the notification for members, without having to "quote"..._*thanks!!*_




  
@UntilThen...(there...I did it, lol!)...kindly let you know the answer - ie. Chatham 6AS7G and GEC CV2523.
  
 As I mentioned in the early stages of testing, I was seriously worried that the EL3Ns might just be too overwhelming for the GECs - which would have been a tragedy of the *highest* order!  But thankfully, 40hrs plus of burn-in have changed things dramatically - everything has balanced out nicely, and the soundstage has opened (and expanded!) beautifully. These drivers still have me in total disbelief...(still forgotten about them, UT? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...am I getting more wicked by the day, or what?!!!).
  
 But thankfully also, you don't need these uber-expensive powers to experience the magic of these tubes...in Elise (aka MERLIN), at least...


----------



## UntilThen

Well I came home from watching the movie Star Wars and what a lovely movie. Totally enjoyed it. Glad my family dragged me away for a night out. I have the force with me now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seated 20 rows from the big screen, wearing 3D glasses and the surround sound hitting me with the force of twin light sabres, I saw what the Fivre 6N7G brown base and FDD20 sounded like. A wall of sound hit me with impact and clarity, soundstage as wide as the VMAX screen, vocals projected at times as close as those 3D glasses would allow you to see and bass simply thunderous. This is how the Fivre and FDD20 with 5998 sounds to me. I'll get to the differences in a minute.
  
 For now I want to talk about the differences between the normal Fivre 6N7G and the Fivre 6N7G brown base. I started listening to them with the Chatham 6AS7G. After about an hour and a half switching between the 2 sets of drivers, they seem very much alike. If I had stop my testing there and then, I would have concluded that they sound alike. However I pressed on, swapping the power tubes to Tung Sol 5998. Both sounded more organic now. Fuller and more bass for sure. The brownie started opening up and I could detect the differences quite clearly from that point on. The brown base certainly have a more substantial bass and a voluptuous midrange while still sparking clear at the top end. It sounded like the normal Fivre 6N7G but inheriting the ECC31 midrange and bass. A very pleasing sound to my ears. Now this is what I thought of the FDD20 too way before I started this comparison. FDD20 seems to slide in between the normal Fivre 6N7G and the ECC31 in sound. That is the reason I love it so much.
  
 Now back to Fivre 6N7G brown base in comparison with the Philips Miniwatt FDD20. Initially I thought they sounded startlingly alike but having swap them back and forth several times, I started to pick up the differences. FDD20 is slightly less forward, soundstage is slightly more expanded and have a more linear presentation, which is very enjoyable listening to music. Fivre 6N7G brown base is more forward, less expansive soundstage wise and have a more mid centric presentation. It is sparkling and very exciting in it's tonal range. Certainly very engaging to listen to as well. Which do I prefer at this point? I am still undecided. They both have tremendous appeal to me and are easily my most loved driver tubes now. I'll need further burn in on both sets of drivers and continue with my evaluation. The irony is that the EL3N may just come in later and dislodge them from their pedestals.
  
 Now for the photoshoot of both sets.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @UntilThen...and all fellow Elise lovers.
  
 Was startled by a package arrival this lunchtime - ordered Monday, dispatched from Holland Tues., here (UK) Thursday...these DPD couriers are absolute dynamite!
  
 UT...you certainly struck gold for the second time here, lol...CHEERS!!..................the package?............you guessed it!!..........:
  

  
 So now I should hopefully have a lifetime's supply...'cos how on Earth can anything top these tubes?..._*trust me!!...*_
  
 ps.  Sorry UT for getting them before you...but you will live in these far, outstrung corners of the World! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 pps.  This Peter is one hell of a guy!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @UntilThen...and all fellow Elise lovers.
> 
> Was startled by a package arrival this lunchtime - ordered Monday, dispatched from Holland Tues., here (UK) Thursday...these DPD couriers are absolute dynamite!
> 
> ...


 
 Oh wow they look gorgeous and new !!! In original boxes too !!!  What a steal at that price.
 Sigh mine is still up in the clouds I guess. Peter is certainly awesome. He's so appreciative that his EL3N stocks are suddenly moving very fast. I think they might be depleted soon at this rate. 
  
 Any date codes there? I wonder if these are from the 1930s. How could they keep it so pristine looking. These looks better than the Fivre brown base and the Philips FDD20. I just love the Philips red series colour and looks.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Oh wow they look gorgeous and new !!! In original boxes too !!!  What a steal at that price.
> Sigh mine is still up in the clouds I guess. Peter is certainly awesome. He's so appreciative that his EL3N stocks are suddenly moving very fast. I think they might be depleted soon at this rate.


 
  
 You bet they're brand spanking new...look like they've only just come off the production line! Not even a single speck of dust on the boxes...how on Earth do they do it? -  late *1930s tubes*...they must have been stored in hermetically sealed containers, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...amazing....
  
 Can only hope yours arrive at your door *very* soon, UT...don't really like being this cruel, actually!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I gain comfort from the thought of what you will be experiencing when they do eventually arrive...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Glad you're liking your gorgeous-looking (and sounding, it would appear!) Fivres...hats off to @Suuup, then...and of course @JazzVinyl? - can't remember if his were the brown base...think they were...Edit...ah - weren't his the Visseaux?...my memory is getting shot to pieces, lol!
  
 BFN


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Well I came home from watching the movie Star Wars and what a lovely movie. Totally enjoyed it. Glad my family dragged me away for a night out. I have the force with me now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree entirely. You captured exactly what I'm hearing. This is a nigh on perfect description. Well done UT! Definitely needs some hours to open up - when I first compared mine to my Joybringers, I didn't think there to be big difference. Now though, the difference is very apparent. 
  
 By the way, how microphonic are your Fivres? 
  
 Looking forward to the EL3N, should receive it any minute now. 
  
 Edit: @hypnos1 I am indeed rocking the brown-base Fivres too. Found a pair on Ebay and shot UT a message immediately, as he seemed interested. Glad you like it UT!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I agree entirely. You captured exactly what I'm hearing. This is a nigh on perfect description. Well done UT! Definitely needs some hours to open up - when I first compared mine to my Joybringers, I didn't think there to be big difference. Now though, the difference is very apparent.
> 
> *By the way, how microphonic are your Fivres? *
> 
> ...


 
 Not microphonic at all. I could kiss it and not receive any feedback while it's powered on.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Not microphonic at all. I could kiss it and not receive any feedback while it's powered on.


 
 Wow, that is impressive. I think the guys over at Feliks Audio sprinkled some extra magic dust on your Elise! 
  
 I actually think my microphony problem is getting even worse from these cone-feet. I guess it makes sense though, as they're entirely metal, whereas the feet on the Elise itself is made from hard rubber (right?). Rubber should suppress the vibration way more than metal.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Wow, that is impressive. I think the guys over at Feliks Audio sprinkled some extra magic dust on your Elise!
> 
> I actually think my microphony problem is getting even worse from these cone-feet. I guess it makes sense though, as they're entirely metal, whereas the feet on the Elise itself is made from rubber. Rubber should suppress the vibration way more than metal.


 
  
 Must admit S, I too have my doubts about _metal_ cones...would only ever consider _hardwood_ - Oak, for example...


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I'm really blessed living in Australia. We're hum free lol but the shipping cost kills and it takes ages for tubes to arrive.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Must admit S, I too have my doubts about _metal_ cones...would only ever consider _hardwood_ - Oak, for example...


 
 Yes, that might work. Hmm. I must admit, I never really believed in these feet, but I took the chance anyway. Guess it didn't pay off this time. Fortunately, these thing weren't expensive at all.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes I'm really blessed living in Australia. We're hum free lol but the shipping cost kills and it takes ages for tubes to arrive.


 
 Haha, true about the shipping. It's one of the reasons I'm so happy we moved to European tubes instead of the American tubes we were all rolling in the beginning.


----------



## UntilThen

H1, you think those EL3N tubes are from the late 1930s?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> H1, you think those EL3N tubes are from the late 1930s?


 
 Think Peter would know? You know him best UT, you could shoot him a message. I'm very interested in this as well.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, you think those EL3N tubes are from the late 1930s?


 
  
 That's what I've gathered from the (little) info out there, UT...


----------



## mordy

According to Radio Museum (if I understand it correctly) - First year *1939 of the EL3N. My guess is that these tubes might be from the 40's.*
  
*Have a pair coming as well, but where are the adapters?*


----------



## UntilThen

Mrs XuLing haven't put them up on eBay yet. Waiting for me to test it first and give her the green light to put it up on eBay. At the moment, the tubes and adapters haven't arrived yet.


----------



## nephilim

DPD rang my door bell, too 
  
 At the moment I enjoy Sylvania 6BL7GT - I heard some weird sounds yesterday but today they have been running flawlessly for 3h. And what I am hearing is really promising )
  
 Oh, and I just ordered 6 casings for my P8A adapters... more news in a few weeks.
  
 Looking a bit messy over here... but #11 just moved in again. No time to tidy everything up.


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> DPD rang my door bell, too
> 
> At the moment I enjoy Sylvania 6BL7GT - I heard some weird sounds yesterday but today they have been running flawlessly for 3h. And what I am hearing is really promising )
> 
> ...



Does this mean the hum is gone?


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> According to Radio Museum (if I understand it correctly) - First year *1939 of the EL3N. My guess is that these tubes might be from the 40's.*
> 
> *Have a pair coming as well, but where are the adapters?*


 
 Yo mordy...late 30's to 40's...but you would _*never*_ guess from the immaculate condition of these tubes (and boxes!), lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Let's hope UT gets his test adapters from Hong Kong soon...I want people to be enjoying these wonders _*ASAP!!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


nephilim said:


> DPD rang my door bell, too
> 
> At the moment I enjoy Sylvania 6BL7GT - I heard some weird sounds yesterday but today they have been running flawlessly for 3h. And what I am hearing is really promising )
> 
> ...


 
  
 Messy, neph?...hardly, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...hate it when you say "a few weeks" though!,,,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...do hope you can make it sooner than that, mon ami...


----------



## nephilim

@Suup No - but what can I do?


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> @Suup No - but what can I do?


 
  
 Try it round a friend's house, with _absolute minimum_ equipment plugged into the same mains socket?...


----------



## nephilim

hypnos1 said:


> Messy, neph?...hardly, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They should be delivered by the end of this year. I still need wires. Do you have a recommendation regarding the wire diameter / cross sectional area? Will 0.14mm^2 or 0.25mm^2 be enough?


----------



## nephilim

hypnos1 said:


> Try it round a friend's house, with _absolute minimum_ equipment plugged into the same mains socket?...


 

 Tried that already. The "funny" thing is that Lukasz told me they fully removed the hum, i.e., it hummed before and was silent afterwards. However, I hardly notice such a strong difference. It has become a bit better but not significantly.


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> Tried that already. The "funny" thing is that Lukasz told me they fully removed the hum, i.e., it hummed before and was silent afterwards. However, I hardly notice such a strong difference. It has become a bit better but not significantly.


 
 I'd try it at a friends house again if I could.


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> They should be delivered by the end of this year. I still need wires. Do you have a recommendation regarding the wire diameter / cross sectional area? Will 0.14mm^2 or 0.25mm^2 be enough?


 

 That is sounding _so_ weird re your hum...looks like you need the services of Sherlock Holmes, methinks! Keep searching, though....
  
 I personally use 0.8mm diam - sometimes 1.00mm - bare silver wire (covered by teflon tubing if not sealed in resin)...don't really like 'thin' wire. The internal diam of the 6SN7 base's pins I use is about 1.6mm...but narrowing at the ends. Have also been combining the silver with thin lengths of twisted strands of single-crystal copper speaker wire to make up the difference. But use whatever takes your preference, of course!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> That is sounding _so_ weird re your hum...looks like you need the services of Sherlock Holmes, methinks! Keep searching, though....


 
 nephilim I personally think you need to move to Australia. Come to my house and test it. I'll give you a tour of the city as well plus some Aussie wine.


----------



## hpamdr

nephilim said:


> They should be delivered by the end of this year. I still need wires. Do you have a recommendation regarding the wire diameter / cross sectional area? Will 0.14mm^2 or 0.25mm^2 be enough?


 

 I did some adapter but never with less than 0.34mm² (i mainly use from .6 to 1mm²) ... i encourage you to use single wire OCC or POCC if you also want to use silver wire you can twist silver and copper wire with teflon tubbing. For driver adapter, you can theorically reduce the section but it is less easy to work with.  (just my 2c)
 II have noticed some hum if i use the amp with no grounded plug, you can just touch the output rca and see if the hum is reduced !


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> DPD rang my door bell, too
> 
> At the moment I enjoy Sylvania 6BL7GT - I heard some weird sounds yesterday but today they have been running flawlessly for 3h. And what I am hearing is really promising )
> 
> ...


 
 Wow your external power supply is really nice. I want one now. Looks professional. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Your volume is at 11am for the 6BL7GT. Is that all you need? JV was saying he needs to turn up the volume dial to 2 - 3pm. If it's 11am I wouldn't mind trying Mordy's tubes.
  
 I still don't understand why you're getting hum. It looks like you're grounded properly. Something's weird. Mine is total silence on all tubes.


----------



## nephilim

11am is usually sufficient with the HD800. Some classical recordings will require higher settings but there should be enough juice.


----------



## UntilThen

Wouldn't have known these are up on eBay until nephilim told me. If you feel adventurous then go ahead and order. Otherwise wait for me to test it first. She didn't put up the C3G to 6SN7 adapters for some reasons. I'll have to ask her.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
 ...says... “_NEW,Special for Elise by Feliks Audio_”  





 Elise is famous on eBay now.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> 11am is usually sufficient with the HD800. Some classical recordings will require higher settings but there should be enough juice.


 

 Ok that sounds promising. So many tubes to roll lol. We're swamped. I'm picking up a pair of Visseaux 6N7G from the Post Office this morning.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Wouldn't have known these are up on eBay until nephilim told me. If you feel adventurous then go ahead and order. Otherwise wait for me to test it first. She didn't put up the C3G to 6SN7 adapters for some reasons. I'll have to ask her.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
> 
> ...


 
 I have ZERO self-control (((( I just ordered a pair !!! Let us know when the C3G adapters are available.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > *You're right, it's not fair to blame Oskari because he's likeable, loveable and knowable*. BUT I'm about to prove to him that the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G do not sound the same despite their identical appearance.
> ...


 
  
 Isn't this just brilliant, I've got a bloody fan club! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.S. UT, different vintages may sound different.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Bought an odd lot of eight 6N7 and 6N7G/T tubes. One tube has a brand name that is new to me - Neotron.
  




  
 Looks like a 6N7GT tube from August 1957 (labeled 6N7G).
  




  




  
 Interesting construction with a lot of copper:








  












  
  
 Does anybody know anything about this factory? The little I know is that it may be a French manufacturer. Another Visseux brand? Could it be a rebranded tube?
  
 Here is a picture of Neotron tubes that sold for $100 each recently:
  




  
 Do you think that the 6N7G Neotron is another $100 tube?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Isn't this just brilliant, I've got a bloody fan club!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oscar just you wait. Both my Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G are as old as dinosaurs. I'm heading to Post Office to collect the Visseaux now. Will post comparison impressions later.


----------



## UntilThen

The Neutron 6N7GT internal constructions certainly looks like the Visseaux. Nice looking EL3 too. They should have been EL3N. EL3 has a different shape.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


>


 
  


untilthen said:


> Any date codes there? I wonder if these are from the 1930s.


 
  
 I don't know when this box style was introduced but I don't think it's quite that old.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Does anybody know anything about this factory? The little I know is that it may be a French manufacturer. Another Visseux brand? Could it be a rebranded tube?


 
  
 Neotron was an actual manufacturer in France; but, yes, it could be a rebranded tube.
  


untilthen said:


> The Neutron 6N7GT internal constructions certainly looks like the Visseaux.


 
  
 Indeed.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Looks like Neotron chopped off the last letter in the tube designation lol.
  
 6N7G should have been 6N7GT
  
 EL3 should have been EL3N - this explains why this quad went for $400.


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> Neotron was an actual manufacturer in France; but, yes, it could be a rebranded tube.
> 
> 
> Indeed.


 
 Neotron was registered as manufacturer but was rebranding a lot of tube (specially Phillips) in the 60th they were located in Clichy near Paris. They were also known to not use standard tube numbering removing a letter or changing one...
 They were sucessfull selling for good price to reseller.
  
 Anyhow, the tube seems to be similar to a visseaux 6N7 G/GTnbut a closer picture of the getter can give a better hint.


----------



## mordy

Close up of getter:
  




  
 Is that it?


----------



## Lord Raven

I just bought a desktop power supply, hooked it up with a pair of FDD20s and connected it with three pin socket to a grounded power supply board, upgrade Elise's power cord to a three pin socket as well and viola, the hum has almost disappeared but the power supply fan is very loud (which I totally hated). I am still convinced that the adapters are not well crafted, something might be wrong within cause I have tried EVERYTHING. Mrs-X told me to re-check ground and twist the two heater cables together, still nothing happened (very faint hum is there). I will ask her to either send a replacement or I am sending these back, I waited for 2 months for them to arrive.
  
 Here are some messed up pictures I took today.
  
  

  
 This beast is 12V 20A LOL I was scared to fry my FDD20s just in case this PS takes a dump on them..
  

  
 Lastly can anyone guide me to the PS available on eBay that worked fine?
  
 And regarding HD600, what is the burn in time for this? I don't want to run it overnight for burning it process, I would rather keep listening to songs to enjoy the music getting smoother day by day 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## mordy

Here is a post for Fivre 6N7GT tubes (NOT 6N7G) which seems reasonable - does anybody have experience with these tubular (NOT ST) type tubes?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6N7GT-ECC31-Fivre-tube-NEW-early-brown-base-type-/201486556904?hash=item2ee988dee8:g:8zsAAOSwUdlWcoeG


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Wouldn't have known these are up on eBay until nephilim told me. If you feel adventurous then go ahead and order. Otherwise wait for me to test it first. She didn't put up the C3G to 6SN7 adapters for some reasons. I'll have to ask her.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
> 
> ...


 
 That's a pretty cool accomplishment! I've bought two other adapters from seller xulingmrs and he's a really great seller!
  
 I asked him if he'll still have this EL3N adapter for the Elise avail. after a few months later since I'm not ready yet. Also I asked if it's possible for him to paint it - IMO *red *or *blue *would look hella better with the black Elise than this white marshmallow style.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> That's a pretty cool accomplishment! I've bought two other adapters from seller xulingmrs and he's a really great seller!
> 
> I asked him if he'll still have this EL3N adapter for the Elise avail. after a few months later since I'm not ready yet. Also I asked if it's possible for him to paint it - IMO *red *or *blue *would look hella better with the black Elise than this white marshmallow style.


 

 Mrs XuLing is a she and agreed she's an excellent seller. I have more than 10 pairs of adapters that works flawlessly from her.
  
 She told me they are designing a special board for the C3G adapters so please understand the delay. Will keep you all posted once it's ready.
  
 nephilim is doing some nice looking metal casing adapters for EL3N.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 It seems that the seller is a woman - xulingmrs. She has been very helpful to members on the forum in developing adapters for our specialized needs. Also easy to deal with in case of a problem.


----------



## DecentLevi

@Lord Raven around 100 hours is a good bet for Sennheiser HD 6xx series burn in time. Basically any semi-fast music works fine so it doesn't have to be pink/white noise; and it also can be burned in with any source even a cell phone provided the volume gets loud enough so you don't need to keep on your Elise. IIRC, these headphones keep getting better in time.


----------



## DecentLevi

The eBay seller said white-base is the only option for this since larger quantities would have been required for a custom color. But I'm sure it's easy for you guys to paint to a color of your choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also she said we can order this adapter anytime later.


----------



## geetarman49

@nephilim
 @Lord Raven
 @UntilThen
  
 & everyone else whose lives have been impacted by hum (audio noise).
 previously, i addressed this issue by providing a link to a product sold by Granite Audio and suggested that people need to read the web article and _not _as an encouragement to buy the product. still there were those who seemed to think i was pushing the product. nevertheless, i will quote the manufacturer's text here for the full benefit of all those who have hum issues.
  
" ... Ground loop problems generally begin when there is a difference in the ground potentials of the various components in a system.  The ground potential of one component may be higher or lower than that of another connected component and the component's ground path to earth ground, or ground impedance, may be higher or lower than that of the other connected component.  The result of a ground loop is audible hum, usually 60 cycle, that sounds like a low bass rumble.  The noise can be extremely objectionable if it can be heard over the music or during quiet passages.  Since the noise is low frequency, it also robs your system of available dynamic power because the amps are wasting their resources by amplifying this audible signal.  An audible ground loop robs system power.​  ​ These unbalanced components share a common ground bond between them via the shields of their interconnect cables, or via the ground wire of their AC power cords.  The ground bond created by the interconnect shields is problematic because of the small gauge of the wires, dirty contact surfaces, and the sometimes low mechanical integrity of the outer grounding ring of cheaper RCA plugs.  If your RCA plugs have a lose fit, you have a potential grounding problem.​  ​ The ground bond via the AC power cords can be problematic because the cords may be different gauges, have different contact mechanical integrity at the outlet, and have different distances to travel back to earth ground.  All these variables can create differences in the ground impedance of each component and opens the door for ground loops and system noise ..."​  
 we hear hum; our first thought is 'it must be the amp.' we try a different amp and sure enough, there's no hum. so we declare amp to be defective and send it back to manufacturer for repair. the manufacturer puts it on his bench and, lo & behold, it meets all specs & is virtually identical to the performance of all the other units he has sold.
  
 did everyone spot the keyword in the quoted text? it is 'system.'  we don't send our system back to the manufacturer - we send only the amp (or whatever component) & ask the manufacturer to resolve what is clearly a system issue. something in the system is responsible for generating noise, in this case, hum & yet our expectations are that the manufacturer resolve the issue without access to the system.
  
 sometimes, we get lucky, real lucky and the solution is simply adding a ground wire or ensuring that we eliminate multiple grounds. other times, we wind up pulling our hair out & kicking the bucket ... many times - i know; i've been there. sometimes the source of the noise isn't even within our audio system but elsewhere, like a compressor motor within a fridge or a light fixture controlled by a rheostat or a wallwart for an electric shaver ... you get the idea. there's no magic genie; you just have to tackle it systematically, one component or wire at a time.
  
 anyway, i've said my piece (or is it peace?) & g'luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> & everyone else whose lives have been impacted by hum (audio noise).


 
 Thanks for that geetarman. I'm probably one of the few that don't have problems at all with hum. My 12V 6A adapter is grounded with 3 pins and that's all I need. No need for a separate ground wire. Tubes that hum on my Darkvoice 336Se are now dead silent on Elise. What can I say.
  
 My music cave has 4 power points. I have more electrical equipments here than probably anyone else. Yet I'm hum free. It really puzzles me to hear of others hum. I really hope you have it resolved soon or go portable power, which is extreme.
  
 You've very good points there and one that we need often to be reminded of. Need to look at the system, not just tubes, adapters or amp only.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> It seems that the seller is a woman - xulingmrs. She has been very helpful to members on the forum in developing adapters for our specialized needs. Also easy to deal with in case of a problem.


 

 I can't agree more here. Mrs XuLing has been invaluable to our adapters needs. She has so far make FDD20, 6BL7GT, EL3N and C3G for Elise alone. This is special service. Understand she's a seller but she's ever ready to hear our requirements and meet them. The prices are also reasonable.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Looks like Neotron chopped off the last letter in the tube designation lol.
> 
> ...


 

 That doesn't surprise. Even sellers make the mistake of dropping the last letter. Look at the Mazda 6N7G ads. The G was missing.
  
 This is the pair that I bought.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/262024803550?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Here is a post for Fivre 6N7GT tubes (NOT 6N7G) which seems reasonable - does anybody have experience with these tubular (NOT ST) type tubes?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6N7GT-ECC31-Fivre-tube-NEW-early-brown-base-type-/201486556904?hash=item2ee988dee8:g:8zsAAOSwUdlWcoeG


 

 These looks special and a real deal at euro 9.90 each and brown base.  Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G are great sounding tubes in the same league as Visseaux and I expect these 6N7GT to perform too. I have a pair of NOS RCA 6N7GT but they sound too warm for me. Fivres are clear sounding. Lovely tone.
  
 Anyone lacking driver tubes should try these. I have way too many drivers now.


----------



## UntilThen

Yo @Oskari ...this is specially for you and me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G ... do they sound the same? Short answer is yes. These are 'Joybringers' indeed. Courtesy of @JazzVinyl . I thought that the Mazda sounded more spicy but I have to attribute that to placebo effects. Both are the most dynamic and exciting drivers I've heard. Clear, detail and spicy. Red hot chilli peppers. Amazing bass and midrange.
  
 Physically they are identical except the Visseaux are slightly taller. Also the bottom part where the wires are, the Visseaux are broader. There's also a difference in the bottom getter. The dimple on Mazda is bigger. See photos below.
  
 
  
 
  
 Left - Mazda ; Right - Visseaux 6N7G


----------



## UntilThen

Going from the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G to Fivre 6N7G brown base and I go WOW. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No contest. I hear you now Suuup. These are real beauties. So much weight.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Are you guys using socket savers for all your rolling? What volume of rolling do you need before you have to worry about wearing out the sockets?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Going from the Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G to Fivre 6N7G brown base and I go WOW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Glad you like them UT! Still looking for more of them, although that might end when I get my EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> The Neutron 6N7GT internal constructions certainly looks like the Visseaux. Nice looking EL3 too. They should have been EL3N. *EL3 has a different shape.*


 
  
 Yes indeed, UT (and @hpamdr)...according to radiomuseum, some rebranders did indeed mis-label the tubes "EL3", instead of "EL3*N*"...if the shape is more 'balloon' than straight-sided, it is in fact the "N" - this is how I managed to bag such a mis-labelled tube for a song. And it looks identical to another labelled "N". But both also look a lot different to the Philips 'Red Series' tubes. It appears there is in fact a WIDE variety (look-wise, at least!) out there...mixed blessing, methinks lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.......:
  
 First, the 'N' non-banded tube...
  

  
 Second, the 'EL3' Tungsram...again without the red band.
  

  
 EDIT...Now this Tungsram is looking a good bit different to the Philips 'Reds', so I am in fact wondering if the statement about the true EL3 being _only_ straight-sided is in fact 100% accurate!...especially as the EL3's heater is 1.2A, as opposed to the 'N's .9A...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So basically, I don't think I would want to risk using TWO of these, just in case! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote


> Originally posted by mordy...
> Here is a picture of Neotron tubes that sold for $100 each recently:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yet another different-looking EL3'N'(???)...and _expensive!!!_




  


oskari said:


> I don't know when this box style was introduced but I don't think it's quite that old.


 
  
 Hi O and @UntilThen...codes on the tubes read : MS12 and A3L....??


----------



## mordy

Hi PerfectAnalog,
  
 Personally I use socket savers for two reasons: As a heat insulator, preventing the tube from making the chassis too hot, and, you guessed it, as a socket saver.
  
 In the Little Dot amp we rolled hundreds of tubes without degrading the sockets in the amp. The sockets in the Elise look to be even higher quality so they should hold up very well for tube rolling.
  
 The inexpensive socket savers I bought for around $2.50 each incl shipping were stated to be good for 200 uses.
  
 Another aspect of socket savers is that they probably save the original sockets from getting dirt on the socket pins. Many of the tubes we use are very old and some of the pins are badly oxidized. It could happen that one sticks in a tube with heavily oxidized pins in the excitement of trying a new tube LOL.....
  
 As an aside, the best way to clean tube pins is by scraping with a small dull knife blade or similar.
  
 I have seen posts where people use small thin round nail files to clean the socket holes - have not tried this.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Thanks for that geetarman. I'm probably one of the few that don't have problems at all with hum. My 12V 6A adapter is grounded with 3 pins and that's all I need. No need for a separate ground wire. Tubes that hum on my Darkvoice 336Se are now dead silent on Elise. What can I say.
> 
> My music cave has 4 power points. I have more electrical equipments here than probably anyone else. Yet I'm hum free. It really puzzles me to hear of others hum. I really hope you have it resolved soon or go portable power, which is extreme.
> 
> You've very good points there and one that we need often to be reminded of. Need to look at the system, not just tubes, adapters or amp only.


 

 thnx, UT
 ... but i don't suffer from hum issues because:
 1. i can't hear any hum --- i have tinnitus 24/7; it masks all noise
 2. i listen to audio via my 14+ yr. old clock radio
 3. i don't listen to audio (despite 1tb of dsd tracks); i watch tv


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi PerfectAnalog,
> 
> Personally I use socket savers for two reasons: As a heat insulator, preventing the tube from making the chassis too hot, and, you guessed it, as a socket saver.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...and everyone...
  
 I feel I must say a few words of caution re our sockets... The Feliks guys chose this particular type for its electrical/soldering qualities rather than _extensive_ tube rolling activity. I therefore strongly advise the use of 'socket savers', if a lot of rolling is intended...trust me!
  
 I personally now have to be very careful when seating tubes - especially when they're adapted with NOS bases. Often I have to 'wiggle' them a fair bit to get a stable connection...and then I may still have to reseat at a later time.
 This started after not an inordinate amount of rolling, but of course I could simply have been unlucky, lol!
  
 And so, better to be safe than sorry!


----------



## hypnos1

Folks...please note I made an additional comment re. the Tungsram 'EL3' mentioned in a previous post...just in case you've already read that unedited one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome @mppl buddy. I or we didn't know you're Elise number #23. You got the Elise after me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Share your experiences with us. We would love to hear it.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> thnx, UT
> ... but i don't suffer from hum issues because:
> 1. i can't hear any hum --- i have tinnitus 24/7; it masks all noise
> 2. i listen to audio via my 14+ yr. old clock radio
> 3. i don't listen to audio (despite 1tb of dsd tracks); i watch tv


 

 Please tell me this is not true because it will break my heart.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi PerfectAnalog,
> 
> Personally I use socket savers for two reasons: As a heat insulator, preventing the tube from making the chassis too hot, and, you guessed it, as a socket saver.
> 
> ...


 

 I use sockets adapters because I simply love adapters hahaha. It was @HeatFan12 who introduce me to the world of adaptation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't really use socket savers for the purpose that it was intended. I insert and remove the tubes together with the socket savers. I use them to get a proportional height with my adapted drivers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Psychologically I think it heats up the tube amp less too whether that's true or false. I find the most effective way of keeping Elise cool is to circulate air at her direction. I.e with a fan at low speed. Tube amps can get hot after a few hours of operation. Especially when you use 6080 power tubes.
  
 200 uses? Serious? I've exceeded that I think and it's still going.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi O and @UntilThen...codes on the tubes read : MS12 and A3L....??


 
@Oskari help !!! How do you decipher this Enigma code?


----------



## UntilThen

Mr. Giannoni send me the pair of Visseaux 6N7G and a replacement Philips Miniwatt FDD20. The latter has the same date as my original pair. 25th May 1942 with the tax stamp sticker on it.
  
 Yesterday, I had a blast listening to Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G. Then I swap to the Fivre 6N7G brown base and that certainly takes the wow level up several notches. When I put on the replacement FDD20, I had a shock. Or my ears had a shock. I was hit with a ton of musical fireworks. It sparkles from the 1st listen. I can't explain why but the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 does not need burn in. It's been burn in since 1942 I think...
  
 All the tubes mentioned above, including Fivre and Visseaux 6A6 and the normal Fivre 6N7G are beautiful sounding drivers. Ah yes ECC31 and 2031 and C3G ... how can I forget.
  
 Use these with Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. These are the best sounding tubes I've heard on Elise. these are my Tier 1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Hurry up EL3N and adapters !!! This might be the rarest caviar of the lot above. Did you know that..there are main types of caviar are Beluga, Sterlet, Ossetra, and Sevruga. The rarest and costliest is from beluga sturgeon that swim in the Caspian Sea, which is bordered by Iran, Kazakhstan, Russia, Turkmenistan, and Azerbaijan. This might be the EL3N caviar.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Please tell me this is not true because it will break my heart.


 
  
 okay, so it's only 90% true - the rest is pure exaggeration. 
  


untilthen said:


> ...
> Use these with Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. These are the best sounding tubes I've heard on Elise. these are my Tier 1.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 yummm ... i shared an oz. of ossetra with lisa some 25 yr ago ... i wonder if .. nah, i'm not into nostalgia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 btw, i got the toobs today; look great - no time to test; thnx a bunch.


----------



## UntilThen

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
 6 sold already !!! Ye are brave hearts. Just a word on these contacts. This is a weakness of this tube base contacts IMO. FDD20 and EL3N use the side contacts against these spring clips in the adapters. If these spring clips are pushed too far in, your contact is bad and you either get hum or lose sound in that channel.
  
 Happens to my replacement FDD20. 1st time I heard hum but when I wiggle the tube into the contacts for a better fit, the hum went away. Then after a few secs, I lose sound. A bit more wiggle and everything is fine. A bit dodgy. I look at the FDD20 side contacts and notice the paddles are not all of the same length. A microscopic difference but enough to lose contact. If you have issues, do what I did. Hopefully the spring contact will ease it's way out for a flushed contact with those paddles. Dodgy I know but it ain't that bad as it sounds. Most times once you snap it in, it's a perfect contact.


----------



## UntilThen

*Mullard 6080 / CV2984*
  
 Treble heads will love these. Now I will get chased around the block. This power tube is bright, clear, detail and punchy. If you want a lift in the higher frequencies without losing the bass impact, this tube is for you. I like it but after a while I find it fatiguing especially with sopranos divas. I prefer Tung Sol 5998. Punchy and tango.
  
 Anyway, this combination looks nice and sounds nice. Your ears might love sopranos. I do sometimes but I need a bit of filter 
  
 Oh this is with HE560. With HD650, it is great. Gosh I haven't use my HD650 for ages. Once I put it on, it feels lighter and more comfortable. The filter is there now. The HD650 does that and it's a great headphone for music.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...and everyone...
> 
> I feel I must say a few words of caution re our sockets... The Feliks guys chose this particular type for its electrical/soldering qualities rather than _extensive_ tube rolling activity. I therefore strongly advise the use of 'socket savers', if a lot of rolling is intended...trust me!
> 
> ...


 

 Trust me H1, these sockets are made for rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've lost count of how many times I've change tubes in the almost last 2 months. The contacts are still as tight as day one.
  
 I'll be easing back on tube rolling after EL3N....sounds familiar? A rolling stone gathers no moss...meaning a wanderer will never find Utopia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
*Edit:- besides thinning his wallet !!!*
 Find the right tubes and settle down to music listening.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @UntilThen...do you think you'll be able to manage a whole _*pound*_ of Beluga?...'cos that's what I reckon I've just guzzled revisiting the album I have used more than any other for assessment this past year with Elise, and 2 years previously with my LDMKIV SE...ie. ELO's "Out of the Blue".
  
 I deliberately left this 'til late, because I wanted even more burn-in time just to be sure of my findings - and in case any of you guys haven't yet got the message....
  
                                                     *YOU SIMPLY MUST......REPEAT.....MUST GET THESE EL3N TUBES!!!*
  
 I hadn't really counted on needing to say any more about these wonders, but now something has forced me to do just that, I'm afraid : having previously mentioned the extra lower and mid-treble frequencies bringing more magic to the table, implying that perhaps this might be at the expense of a certain amount of the C3g's exceptional upper treble FR, I can now confirm that this is most definitely *not* the case! These tubes are now reaching every bit as high as the C3g, and with a level of deft decay that hangs in a way that again I have never encountered before..._*surpassing*_, in effect, that mighty tube. What more can I say?....Absolutely _*nothing, rien, nada, niente, nichts!!!*_
  
 With these (unbelievable, I know!) words, I must say goodnight to you all...and leave you to ponder them at your leisure, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## UntilThen

H1 every time you do such a review, I buy another pair of EL3N. I'm up to 3 pairs now !!!

It better sound as you described or I'll have to hang them on my Akubra hat.

Oh btw have you tried the new EL3N? Have to make sure they are the real thing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> @Suup
> No - but what can I do?




Hello Neph....is your electrical mains cord, (like Suuup's), not grounded?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi O and @UntilThen...codes on the tubes read : MS12 and A3L....??


 
 Alright let me guess this and Oskari can correct me.
  
 MS12 - MS is a 2 symbol type code for EL3N
 see http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf ...page 8 
  

 LL  ECH11     MR EL2
 LM  ECH21    MS EL3N 
 


  
 who knows what 12 is .. anybody's guess !!!
  
 Now A3L...
 (again refer to the Philips Code List above)
  
 A is Factory symbol

 A  Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, Wien
 B  Mullard, BlackburnC  Hendon Works, Alberton, Australia
 D  Valvo, Hamburg
 
  
 3 is year ... so my guess is 1943 or 1953
  
 L is month ... "Old" code - Sep ; "New" code - Dec


----------



## nojdrof

Hey guys I waiting for my Elise amp so this is a great time for me to try to understand more about tubes. Can you point me to a thread that explains tubes?


----------



## DecentLevi

THIS has become the Elise tube rolling thread, and I'm sure the fellow members would love to give you their current top 5 list of combinations.
  
 The last couple dozen+ pages has just about everything you need to know - seriously check it


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> Hey guys I waiting for my Elise amp so this is a great time for me to try to understand more about tubes. Can you point me to a thread that explains tubes?


 

 Nojdrof, you have ordered Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats. 
  
 Did you want to learn more about tubes or did you want to find out which are the tubes to get for Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi you'll be very happy with 2 FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998. Unfortunately 5998 are rarer than white elephants now.
  
 Actually in your case with HD650, you're better off with 2 FDD20 and Mullard 6080. Langrex has some now for sale.
  
 I'm listening to FDD20 and 5998 with HE560 now. It's a ear blast. Timbre is perfect. If EL3N is better than this, I'd be really really surprised. You hear that @hypnos1 ? I would be really surprised. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Only the Fivre 6N7G brown base comes close. Those brownies have earn themselves brownie points.


----------



## UntilThen

For those looking for good power tubes for Elise, try and get a pair of Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G or 6520 but like I say they are very rare now and expensive.
  
 So this is next best alternative. Below ....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805:g:7rkAAOSwF1dUUiu7


----------



## DecentLevi

According to your older notes, GE 6AS7GA and Chatham 6AS7G are both good alternatives to the rare Tung Sol 5998


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> According to your older notes, GE 6AS7GA and Chatham 6AS7G are both good alternatives to the rare Tung Sol 5998


 

 GE 6AS7GA are a good and cheap alternative. $22 a pair. Works great with my fav drivers and HD650 but I much much prefer the Chatham or Mullard CV2984. Certainly have the GE as well. Different tone and texture. Good contrast. Depends on which wine you're drinking whilst listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Tung Sol 5998 certainly sounds different from the others. It's not just tone, pitch and gain but a whole lot more. Many have remark on the bass. That is prominent but once you get over that bass love, you'll certainly find other aspects just as lovely. Vocals are rich and euphonic. I didn't try GEC 6AS7G and WE 421A ...yet. Those are more expensive and rarer than white panthers. Ever seen a white panther?
  
 GBP 130 for one new untested GEC 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-GEC-BOXED-VINTAGE-6AS7G-VALVE-/221953814340?hash=item33ad7a6f44:g:tIoAAOSwv-NWWiNt
  
 There you go...a lifetime supply of 16 Chatham 5998 at a cheap US$995. Come to think of it, that's a very good price.
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SET-OF-16-PIECES-6520-5998-CHATHAM-POWER-TRIODES-VINTAGE-USA-TUBES-6AS7-421A-/301782858560?hash=item4643a8fb40:g:SwMAAOSwBahVQbsO


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1 every time you do such a review, I buy another pair of EL3N. I'm up to 3 pairs now !!!
> 
> It better sound as you described or I'll have to hang them on my Akubra hat.
> 
> Oh btw have you tried the new EL3N? Have to make sure they are the real thing.


 
  
 3 pairs now?...my deepest, sincerest apologies for misleading you, UT....they are in fact even _*better*_ than I have described, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...better go get _another_ 3 pairs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (If they aren't as I described, methinks it is *I* who shall be hanging _by_ them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  
 I'm afraid I shan't be trying the Tungsram 'EL3' after all...on closer inspection I'm not at all happy with the quality (as opposed to condition) of this particular tube. It looks positively crude, compared to the Philips 'Red Series' tubes. I know one shouldn't really be influenced too much by appearance, but I must admit _*all*_ the tubes that I personally have found to excel have _looked_ good from the off, and made something inside me go :  oooohhhhh! There has always been an aural 'smell' about them that just hits the spot, and brings a warm glow. This Tungsram in the flesh - I wasn't really too happy with its photo, to be honest - has me going : yeuch!, and leaves me cold as ice...shan't even be wasting my time (and silver wire!) on this thing, alas. The RTF tube's photo does however look far more promising, so just hope the 'smell' is right when it arrives. If not, I'll just put it down to tube roller's 'joy'...no point taking chances when the 'Reds' are so magnificent, lol!...(Which reminds me - I'd better get ordering another pair, before you snaffle them all!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 ps. @DecentLevi is right...we are indeed now mostly a tube-rolling thread! But as we have already confirmed many times the true pedigree of this amp - plus no sensible option of modding inside, lol! - all that is left for further elevation of Elise (MK1) is via our latest tube finds! And given the now vast choice of tubes at our disposal, the sound can be tailored to whatever preferences one has...without the need to change a single component inside this marvel of a machine. Even when the 2 year warranty is expired, I now have no desire *whatsoever* to open her up...I shall leave well alone, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 HAPPY LISTENING EVERYONE!      
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit..ps. The MS12s have "Made in Holland" on them...???


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> 3 pairs now?...my deepest, sincerest apologies for misleading you, UT....they are in fact even _*better*_ than I have described, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well make sense because "Viennese radio work" (Wirag) is in Vienna, Austria. The _Philips radio tubes Ges. MbH, Vienna,_ a *subsidiary of the Dutch **Philips** Corporation*, first took over 1936 _radio stations Horny,_ changed its name to those in "Wiener Radio Werke AG" (Wirag) and bought 1939 the Schrack plant at the Abbegasse.
  
Ok I got it from here....
 https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss-Werk_Wien&prev=search
  
 Better grab yourself another pair of EL3N. They are going fast. 3 pairs of EL3Ns is enough for me. Have to share it with other Elise owners. Besides I have 5 FDD20 and countless 6N7G and 6A6 and 3 ECC31. *Edit:-* Maybe I should get another 3 pairs lol.
  
 Philips Miniwatt FDD20 with Tung Sol 5998 is making me intoxicated now. Happy listening everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P/S: I mean have you tried Pete's tubes?
  
 Pss: On Joybringers aka Visseaux 6N7G now. These are crazy good too. I'm way intoxicated with good sound now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Psss: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Agreed. There's nothing I need to change on Elise. Sounds too good with all these tubes now. Far exceeded my expectations.


----------



## UntilThen

*Revise scoring - 19th Dec 2015:-*
  
*Drivers*

FDD2011FIVRE 6N7G BROWN BASE11FDD20 / ECC3111MAZDA 6N7G9.8VISSEAUX 6N7G9.8FIVRE 6N7G9.8ECC319.8VISSEAUX 6A69.8FIVRE 6A69.8C3G9.65
  
*Recommended power tubes*

Tung Sol 5998Chatham 6520Chatham 6AS7GMullard 6080 / CV2984GE 6AS7GA


----------



## Lord Raven

Just finished buying 4 x more tubes, and you guessed it right. EL3N tubes are coming 
  
 Also, bought the adapters, couldn't wait for the testing to be over LOL
  
 I think I would go beyond the heaven this time 
  
 Edit: I just won a Tung Sol 5998 tube in an auction! *YEAH*


----------



## UntilThen

4 pairs of EL3N? Rascal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm hoping my EL3N and adapters arrived next week before Christmas.
  
 Which Tung Sol 5998 did you get?


----------



## Lord Raven

Haha exactly, I jumped on the stash like everyone else 
  
 And I hope mine arrive before I visit you LOL
  
 It is with orange markings, the seller says it is super rare


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Haha exactly, I jumped on the stash like everyone else
> 
> And I hope mine arrive before I visit you LOL
> 
> It is with orange markings, the seller says it is super rare


 

 Yes I saw that tube with orange markings. Good price and test well. If you check eBay history of 5998 sold, they always fetch a high price, especially those in pairs.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Yes I saw that tube with orange markings. Good price and test well. If you check eBay history of 5998 sold, they always fetch a high price, especially those in pairs.


 
 Thanks man, you know I have learnt a lot over here about the tubes  I know how to buy tubes now at least LOL
  
 I am grateful I have never paid very high price for tubes  Thanks to you and other fellow members...
  
 Last night, in anger and desperation I broke the ECC31 adapter while trying to open it LOL What a crap, I put adapters in and the Elise starts humming, I put the default Russian driver tubes and it is DEAD silent.
  
 What a party pooper these adapters have been for me :/ I will return the PC PS today and most probably get a very high end LPS for my DAC, that has 2 x 12V outputs, I will put the heater on that grounded LPS. If it still hums, I am going to break everything and go back to SS LOL


----------



## UntilThen

If you see my setup, I have no special LPS. This is what I bought for 12V and works like a charm. No need for a separate ground wire. No hum, no noise.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221815437071?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Also both sets of my ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters works without hum / noise. They are from 2 sellers, Suzier and Mrs. XuLing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@Lord Raven can you link me the site where you bought the ECC31 adapters? Just checking to see that you bought the right one.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> If you see my setup, I have no special LPS. This is what I bought for 12V and works like a charm. No need for a separate ground wire. No hum, no noise.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221815437071?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Also both sets of my ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters works without hum / noise. They are from 2 sellers, Suzier and Mrs. XuLing.


 
 Actually my DAC 12V adapter is very cheap looking, I don't think it is good enough, it does not even have a ground pin. This is the reason I wanted to upgrade to a decent LPS. The LPS I am getting has 2 x 12V ports, this will help power up the heaters of FDD20s as well.
  
 I am not sure if this is a good idea to power up DAC and heaters from same LPS.
  
 FDD20 current draw is 700mA for a pair and Geek DAC is using 650~950mA, the LPS can output 2A. What do you think, is it a good idea?
  
 I don't want to add another PS along with DAC's PS. I just want a single unit doing it all basically.
  
 Well, you have been quite lucky then. Suzier adapters hummed from day one, he is sending a pair as replacement. Mrs-X adapters also have a faint hum, when I touch the Elise, or the ground of RCA or ground of the PC PS, the hum totally disappears. When how do I keep one hand on Elise and listen to the music? LOL 
  
 I just bought the ECC31 and EL3N adapters from Mrs-X and really hope that they won't hum at all.


----------



## UntilThen

You lost me there. Why do you need 12V to power your Geek DAC? Does it not use AC?
  
 It's not luck. I have more than 10 pairs of adapters and none of them hum. There is a possibility of the adapters being faulty but I haven't encountered one.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You lost me there. Why do you need 12V to power your Geek DAC? Does it not use AC?
> 
> It's not luck. I have more than 10 pairs of adapters and none of them hum. There is a possibility of the adapters being faulty but I haven't encountered one.


 
 It has an external PS, 12V adapter, which is 2 pins only.
  
 I have been unlucky, I have given up on Suzier like everyone else did. Betting on Mrs-X now. She is sending 4 more adapters, I hope they are as good as yours


----------



## UntilThen

You can't be twice unlucky with adapters unless you kick a cat so I have high hopes for your new incoming adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Guess the NAD D1050 is a simpler affair. I just plug the 3 pin power plug into the AC socket. No external power supply needed. Told you to get a NAD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So are you getting one of this LPS4 from LH Labs? $899? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.audiostream.com/content/lh-labs-geek-pulse-xfi-linear-power-supply-4-lps4#Sb1o5xiVYhPzkqy1.97
  
 The reviewer thinks highly of the LPS4. Maybe that's what you need but the price for the bundle lol.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You can't be twice unlucky with adapters unless you kick a cat so I have high hopes for your new incoming adapters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wish I get lucky this time  Golden adapters are good, well built from the looks. EL3N is a gamble LOL
  
 LOL you were right but I wanted something with Femto Clocks and Dual Mono DAC IC chips hehe
  
 I am getting this Jays Audio LPS, read about it, the specs are really good. What do you say?
  
http://alvinchc.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/jays-audio-linear-power-supply-lps25va.html


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I just bought the ECC31 and EL3N adapters from Mrs-X and really hope that they won't hum at all.




Is it time to buy Mrs X's EL3N adapters? 

I thought she would hold off until UT tested...since they are pentodes, and not double triode tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Is it time to buy Mrs X's EL3N adapters?
> 
> I thought she would hold off until UT tested...since they are pentodes, and not double triode tubes?


 

 Dunno all these brave hearts are going ahead and obviously Mrs. X feels confident about putting it up for sale. Well if she follows exactly H1's specs, they should be fine but who knows. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Detail instructions were given to her on which pins to connect.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I wish I get lucky this time  Golden adapters are good, well built from the looks. EL3N is a gamble LOL
> 
> LOL you were right but I wanted something with Femto Clocks and Dual Mono DAC IC chips hehe
> 
> ...


 

 Can't tell you anything about LPS. I have never use one but that price is much cheaper than LH Lab LPS4.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Dunno all these brave hearts are going ahead and obviously Mrs. X feels confident about putting it up for sale. Well if she follows exactly H1's specs, they should be fine but who knows.
> Detail instructions were given to her on which pins to connect.



Right....I think I will wait and oder after its determined that they work correctly. Her ad said 10 sold already...that 5 pairs...

So, hope they work correctly....

Will she also make be making C3G adapters?


----------



## nojdrof

untilthen said:


> Nojdrof, you have ordered Elise.   Congrats.
> 
> Did you want to learn more about tubes or did you want to find out which are the tubes to get for Elise?


 I'd like to learn more about how they work and why changing them makes the amp sound different. If it's just as simple as buying different tubes suggested in this thread and trying them great but I thought there might be a tubes for beginners thread somewhere on head-fi.org. I looked and didn't find anything. And I don't want to bug you guys with stupid questions 

Thanks guys


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well make sense because "Viennese radio work" (Wirag) is in Vienna, Austria. The _Philips radio tubes Ges. MbH, Vienna,_ a *subsidiary of the Dutch **Philips** Corporation*, first took over 1936 _radio stations Horny,_ changed its name to those in "Wiener Radio Werke AG" (Wirag) and bought 1939 the Schrack plant at the Abbegasse.
> 
> Ok I got it from here....
> https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss-Werk_Wien&prev=search
> ...


 
  
 Just got 'em, UT...not taking any chances, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Not had chance to adapt Peter's tubes yet, but my very first one was in fact exactly the same tube...same codes, same pristine box. And sounds magical...as you may have already gathered!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so be prepared...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Actually my DAC 12V adapter is very cheap looking, I don't think it is good enough, it does not even have a ground pin. This is the reason I wanted to upgrade to a decent LPS. The LPS I am getting has 2 x 12V ports, this will help power up the heaters of FDD20s as well.
> 
> I am not sure if this is a good idea to power up DAC and heaters from same LPS.
> 
> ...


 
 The hum from the adapters disappear when you touch the RCA jack? That's not the adapters then. It's a grounding problem.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hi O and @UntilThen...codes on the tubes read : MS12 and A3L....??


 
  


untilthen said:


> @Oskari help !!! How do you decipher this Enigma code?


 
  


untilthen said:


> Alright let me guess this and Oskari can correct me.
> 
> MS12 - MS is a 2 symbol type code for EL3N
> see http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf ...page 8
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it's a bit of an enigma.
  
 My guess is WIRAG, 1963, Dec. Not sure about this.
  
 "2" could be the week, misplaced.


----------



## tjw321

My best guess is this is the "new code" which came in 1961
  
 MS = EL3N
 1 = Eindhoven
 2 = Last digit of the year (1962)
 A = Month = January
 3 = 3rd Week of January
 L = batch number (Change symbol)
  
 But it really is just a guess based on the CodeList pdf. I've never tried to interpret those codes before...


----------



## Oskari

tjw321 said:


> My best guess is this is the "new code" which came in 1961
> 
> MS = EL3N
> 1 = Eindhoven
> ...


 
  
 That would be a botched up layout of the code, which is not impossible, of course.


----------



## tjw321

oskari said:


> That would be a botched up layout of the code, which is not impossible, of course.


 
 The layout is exactly what I was most uncertain of. I just worked my way through that document one letter at a time without really knowing how it should be laid out.
  
 Mine are MS12 A4B.


----------



## Oskari

tjw321 said:


> The layout is exactly what I was most uncertain of. I just worked my way through that document one letter at a time without really knowing how it should be laid out.


 
  
 The 'new code' should be as follows.
  
 TTC
 FYMW
  
 TT = type
 C = change code
 F = factory
 Y = year
 M = month
 W = week (added in early 60s)


----------



## tjw321

oskari said:


> The 'new code' should be as follows.
> 
> TTC
> FYMW
> ...


 
 This is why I should leave it to the experts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I worked through the text, but didn't try and correlate it with the diagrams.


----------



## Oskari

The problem is that there are deviations.
  
 MS12
 A4B
  
 doesn't completely fit the system.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> The problem is that there are deviations.
> 
> MS12
> A4B
> ...


 

 I shall ask Mr. Philips himself, he might have a clue.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Right....I think I will wait and oder after its determined that they work correctly. Her ad said 10 sold already...that 5 pairs...
> 
> So, hope they work correctly....
> 
> Will she also make be making C3G adapters?


 

 JV, Mrs.X (gee I hate calling her that, it's like M in James Bond) is designing a board for the C3G instead of doing wiring connection which she say might cause problems when the wires cross path. She also said with 'board' it's more costly and more robust ('more better' in her words).
  
 So stay tune for the C3G adapters.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Thanks man, you know I have learnt a lot over here about the tubes  I know how to buy tubes now at least LOL
> 
> I am grateful I have never paid very high price for tubes  Thanks to you and other fellow members...
> 
> ...


 

 & _when _that happens, i want first dibs on your toob stash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
  
 you might try testing continuity/open at various points on adapter with your dmm.


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> I'd like to learn more about how they work and why changing them makes the amp sound different. If it's just as simple as buying different tubes suggested in this thread and trying them great but I thought there might be a tubes for beginners thread somewhere on head-fi.org. I looked and didn't find anything. And I don't want to bug you guys with stupid questions
> 
> Thanks guys


 

 Hi nojdorf,
  
 To learn more about tubes, just google tubes or valves and you'll get tons of information. Must include 'amplifier' or you will get plumber's valves coming back in your search.
  
 Tubes can sound different because of amplification gain, design, constructions and intended purpose of the tubes. Some of the good sounding tubes we're using were not even originally intended for audio tubes but they sound great. E.g C3G. Also only the vintage tube sounds better because of their dinosaur lineage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jokes aside, that's true. Problem with getting very old NOS tubes is that they might have deteriorated badly if they are not kept properly. So I usually look for pristine looking ones but that's no guarantee that they will sound pristine or hum free.
  
 Again you have tubes made in different countries. I started off with tubes Made in the U.S.A but I'm now preferring tubes made in Europe (that includes UK). Now I'll get chased by U.S.A around the block. There are some exceptions. Give me a Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plate or a Sylvania 6SN7W metal base and I'll take them gladly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You can try various 6SN7 or follow our lead. We've done the test and have a good group consensus here in this thread, on which ones sound good on Elise. That you can have no fear. No questions are stupid. Please feel free to ask any questions.
  
 Cheers,
 UT


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Just got 'em, UT...not taking any chances, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1, That is reassuring. Also Peter seems a knowledgeable seller of quality parts. I or most of us here are very excited about the EL3N now, thanks to you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I laugh when I think how I discover this tube. Was searching for Mazda 6N7G but up pop the Mazda EL3N and I go, 'Wow lovely red tube...' and jokingly ask you to get it going. Didn't think for a moment you'll take me up on it.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari and tjw321, thanks for the attempts on decoding the dates on the EL3N. Whatever it is, I think they are old tubes, 40s, 50s, 60s who knows. Wouldn't be surprise if it 60s as you said Oskari, as the boxes and tubes are in such pristine condition. One thing we know, they are Made in Holland or a Philips plant in Vienna, Austria.
  
 Eindhoven is in the south of Netherlands and the seller is from there too. That's another possibility. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 What am I talking about..Holland is a coastal region in the western Netherlands.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The hum from the adapters disappear when you touch the RCA jack? That's not the adapters then. It's a grounding problem.


 

 A very good point Suuup. Solve the ground problem and you'll be like me. Humphrey !!!
  
  
 See, no hum.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I asked if Neph's setup is missing the third (ground pin) in his mains plug (like Suuup's) - anyone know if that is true? 

My theory is that when his amp got to Poland, they used a grounded three pin 220 mains plug, and did not experience the quantity of HUM that neph does (if it's true that he does not ground the amp, automatically via his mains receptacle).


----------



## UntilThen

To be or not to be... To ground or not to ground 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Beats me when Suuup says that in Denmark, the 3rd pin does not exist.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> To be or not to be... To ground or not to ground
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, it exists, it's just that it's not used most of the time. Often, when I get a cable with the 3rd grounding pin, I tear it off.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Well, it exists, it's just that it's not used most of the time. Often, when I get a cable with the 3rd grounding pin, I tear it off.




Remember you saying that, Suuup...

Did you ever 'properly ground' your Elise to the radiator pipe?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Remember you saying that, Suuup...
> 
> Did you ever 'properly ground' your Elise to the radiator pipe?


 
 I did, but I removed it again. It didn't do anything for the hum + it looked really ugly, although I could've probably done a cleaner job, had it worked. 
  
 With Mrs Xu Lings golden adapters, there is no hum. It seems I did in fact get a faulty pair of adapters. There is hope @Lord Raven! My hum didn't disappear, when I touched the RCA jack though, so I'm not sure we have the same problem. Seems yours really is a grounding problem. 
  
  
 I got a note earlier today that the postal service tried to deliver the EL3N's today, but I wasn't home. Can pick them up the 21th. They must be busy around Christmas. I'm in no rush though, as I'll be very busy for the next month or so.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup, I'm in no hurry for the EL3Ns except to test the adapters quickly for others sake. These FDD20 and Fivre 6N7G brown base are seriously good. I'll go on the record here and say that I'll be really really surprised if the EL3N sounds better than them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Busy for the next month or so? New girlfriend who can blame you. And where is @jerick70 
  
@aqsw I'm still waiting for a review besides your famous one liners. 'My LC has ZERO time'


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup, I'm in no hurry for the EL3Ns except to test the adapters quickly for others sake. These FDD20 and Fivre 6N7G brown base are seriously good. I'll go on the record here and say that I'll be really really surprised if the EL3N sounds better than them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll be surprised too, but Colin has a good ear. I do trust him. 
  
 Busy for until February, with around 100 hours of work a week. Fortunately, I can mostly work from home.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'll be surprised too, but Colin has a good ear. I do trust him.


 
 I know I can trust Colin. I'm just jabbing him for more impressions of EL3N. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've never seen him so excited before but as he said, the EL3Ns are the best he has heard to date, since LD MK4 tube rolling days till now.


----------



## hypnos1

Just a quickie guys...am late getting my midnight EL3N fix...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Thanks @Suuup and @UntilThen for your trust...Edit - and everyone else who is jumping in on my word, of course! I sincerely hope you _are_ really, really surprised, lol!...(I have every confidence!!).
  
 You want _*more*_ torture, UT?...later, later...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And thanks @Oskari and @tjw321 for your tube code input...still some confusion there, looks like. Their condition does indeed point to later than 40s tubes however.
 All I can say is that if the grotty Tungsram 'EL3'/'N'(?) I have is an example of the older tube, this could just be one of those rarer cases where the _later_ incarnations are in fact much better than the earlier ones...luckily for us, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Back to the fix....CHEERS!
 BFN


----------



## UntilThen

I've not heard of Kurt Masur but now I know he's famous. Read his accomplishments. 
  
 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-20/former-new-york-philharmonic-orchestra-conductor-kurt-masur-dies/7043696


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


> I asked if Neph's setup is missing the third (ground pin) in his mains plug (like Suuup's) - anyone know if that is true?
> 
> My theory is that when his amp got to Poland, they used a grounded three pin 220 mains plug, and did not experience the quantity of HUM that neph does (if it's true that he does not ground the amp, automatically via his mains receptacle).


 

 Yes, amp, external power supply and the Furman power conditioner have all three pin connectors - as have all the power outlets in my house. The only thing which has no ground is the USB hub for the DAC, which indeed adds some hum when connected to the DAC. But your question, JV, made me wonder whether I have a dedicated protective earth or whether PE and neutral wire might be linked, which was common practice a few decades ago. I still have no clue but today I bought a little tool which at least told me that the outlets are connected properly. Tomorrow I will open one of the wall sockets and check if there are three or just two wires. 
  
 Btw, I am running the Fivre 6N7G now... and last night. Yesterday I used xulingmrs' plastic ECC31 to ECC33 adapters (which added a strong hum) but today her 'gold plated'  adapters run much quieter. So I would not go that far to say that all her adapters are flawless  Apart from that the Fivre are close to the top of my list of favorites!


----------



## PerfectAnalog

untilthen said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
> 
> 6 sold already !!!




I wish she posted a few pairs instead of just singles at a discount


----------



## hypnos1

Well @UntilThen...you've robbed me of a decent bedtime music session, 'cos I've just listened to some of Jeff Wayne's music CD of "War of the Worlds", and I had to let you know straight away...make this your first proper listen once you have at least 40 hrs on the EL3Ns - it's almost as if I've never properly heard it before...cliche I know -  but this is now hardly the Elise I have come to love...she is sounding as if in a totally different league to what we have come to expect...'nuff said...
  
 Goodnight....


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Yes, amp, external power supply and the Furman power conditioner have all three pin connectors - as have all the power outlets in my house. The only thing which has no ground is the USB hub for the DAC, which indeed adds some hum when connected to the DAC. But your question, JV, made me wonder whether I have a dedicated protective earth or whether PE and neutral wire might be linked, which was common practice a few decades ago. I still have no clue but today I bought a little tool which at least told me that the outlets are connected properly. Tomorrow I will open one of the wall sockets and check if there are three or just two wires.
> 
> Btw, I am running the Fivre 6N7G now... and last night. Yesterday I used xulingmrs' plastic ECC31 to ECC33 adapters (which added a strong hum) but today her 'gold plated'  adapters run much quieter. So I would not go that far to say that all her adapters are flawless  Apart from that the Fivre are close to the top of my list of favorites!


 

 Glad you love the Fivre 6N7G. Is that the brown base? I love all my Fivre 6A6, 6N7G and the brown base most of all.
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if some adapters are problematic. They are made by humans after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I know is that my more than 10 pairs of different adapters from Suzier and Mrs. Xu Ling works perfectly without the dreaded hum. Luck?


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> Yes, amp, external power supply and the Furman power conditioner have all three pin connectors - as have all the power outlets in my house. The only thing which has no ground is the USB hub for the DAC, which indeed adds some hum when connected to the DAC. But your question, JV, made me wonder whether I have a dedicated protective earth or whether PE and neutral wire might be linked, which was common practice a few decades ago. I still have no clue but today I bought a little tool which at least told me that the outlets are connected properly. Tomorrow I will open one of the wall sockets and check if there are three or just two wires.
> 
> Btw, I am running the Fivre 6N7G now... and last night. Yesterday I used xulingmrs' plastic ECC31 to ECC33 adapters (which added a strong hum) but today her 'gold plated'  adapters run much quieter. So I would not go that far to say that all her adapters are flawless  Apart from that the Fivre are close to the top of my list of favorites!




Excellent Neph!

I think your on the right track. I have that same "ground checker" for USA/120 and when I bought my house (years ago) I saw that many of my outlets were *NOT* properly grounded, and we did fix them alll.

I really hope this exercise will be revealing for you, and bring an end to the HUM problems.

I am still running FDD20/5998's and hope that h1 is right,and the EL3N's will be able to surpass these FDD20's...its a TALL order, for sure 

Cheers to us....the LUCKY ones!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well @UntilThen...you've robbed me of a decent bedtime music session, 'cos I've just listened to some of Jeff Wayne's music CD of "War of the Worlds", and I had to let you know straight away...make this your first proper listen once you have at least 40 hrs on the EL3Ns - it's almost as if I've never properly heard it before...cliche I know -  but this is now hardly the Elise I have come to love...she is sounding as if in a totally different league to what we have come to expect...'nuff said...
> 
> Goodnight....


 

 Hahaha.... ok I'll listen to Wars of the World as a first listen with EL3N, in particular 'The Spirit of Man'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I agree JV. It will take a LOT to beat a pair of Philips Miniwatt and Tung Sol 5998 as well as the Fivre 6N7G brown base.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

untilthen said:


> For those looking for good power tubes for Elise, try and get a pair of Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G or 6520 but like I say they are very rare now and expensive.




I stumbled upon 2 x RCA JAN CRC-6AS7G tubes, black plates, chrome top, 1955 USA tubes in great condition. 

Has anyone heard any of these RCA tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> I stumbled upon 2 x RCA JAN CRC-6AS7G tubes, black plates, chrome top, 1955 USA tubes in great condition.
> 
> Has anyone heard any of these RCA tubes?


 

 RCA 6AS7G are the most common of the 6AS7G and widely available. They aren't bad. Lots of weight and 'full' but lacking details compared to the Chatham 6AS7G. They're an improvement over the stock Svetlana 6H13C. 
  
 I have a pair of RCA 6AS7G and GE 6AS7G but they sit in my drawers. I use them to test out new drivers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't compare with the better power tubes and you'll be fine with them.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Excellent Neph!
> 
> I think your on the right track. I have that same "ground checker" for USA/120 and when I bought my house (years ago) I saw that many of my outlets were *NOT* properly grounded, and we did fix them alll.
> 
> ...


 

 I had an electrician friend replace the whole mains power board, circuit breakers, fuses and everything that's there that controls the whole house 2 years ago. The room office that I listen to music has new wall sockets installed. Also the fibre optic cable that feeds my cable modem comes through this room too. I have peace of mind now. No more overload and properly grounded.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Can't beat the prices though


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Can't beat the prices though


 

 Yes you can with a pair of GE 6AS7GA for $22 from Parts Express which in my opinion sounds better than the RCA 6AS7G.
  
 Oooops they are out of stock... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 https://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I had an electrician friend replace the whole mains power board, circuit breakers, fuses and everything that's there that controls the whole house 2 years ago. The room office that I listen to music has new wall sockets installed. Also the fibre optic cable that feeds my cable modem comes through this room too. I have peace of mind now. No more overload and properly grounded.


 
 That might be why you don't have any hum. Just a bit curious here, @Lord Raven do you know the state of your electrical wiring in your house? @nephilim ? How old are the buildings? 
  
 I have no idea how the wiring is where I live, all I know is the building is about 45 years old. Guess that could be the reason why I have _few_ hum problems.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Suuup, I'm in no hurry for the EL3Ns except to test the adapters quickly for others sake. These FDD20 and Fivre 6N7G brown base are seriously good. I'll go on the record here and say that I'll be really really surprised if the EL3N sounds better than them.
> 
> Busy for the next month or so? New girlfriend who can blame you. And where is @jerick70
> 
> ...




I'm still kickin. I've had the stomach flu for the last three days so not much time to listen to my Elise. This weekend we are having family over for the holidays. I'll be able to listen more Tuesday and Wednesday of next week when I'm off work. The Holidays are a busy time here.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I'm still kickin. I've had the stomach flu for the last three days so not much time to listen to my Elise. This weekend we are having family over for the holidays. I'll be able to listen more Tuesday and Wednesday of next week when I'm off work. The Holidays are a busy time here.


 

 Yes it's the holiday seasons. I've been listening to music last night until I get a text from a friend asking why I wasn't over for the party. I had completely forgotten about the party. Hope you're better now.
  
 I have not listen to 2031 for a while but I put it on now and I'm just amazed at the bass. So lovely. I've to revise this setup to 11 now. Glorious sound.
  
 Crappy photo in a hurry. For 2031, I use the old FDD20 adapter.

  
 To go back to 2 FDD20, I simply connect this pair on using the male plug. So convenient.

  
 Behind, that's how it connected. No separate grounding wire. 
 I'm still using el cheapo RCA interconnects because I get marvellous sound so why change.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well @UntilThen...you've robbed me of a decent bedtime music session, 'cos I've just listened to some of Jeff Wayne's music CD of "War of the Worlds", and I had to let you know straight away...make this your first proper listen once you have at least 40 hrs on the EL3Ns - it's almost as if I've never properly heard it before...cliche I know -  but this is now hardly the Elise I have come to love...she is sounding as if in a totally different league to what we have come to expect...'nuff said...
> 
> Goodnight....


 

@hypnos1 I'm listening to Wars of the World now using 2031 and it's making the aliens weep. It's turning the tide of that battle. I kid you not. This bass and everything is too glorious.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Elise owners or would be owners...  I repeat I have not tested it.
  
 C3G adapters are up on eBay but will only ship on 24th Dec 2015. Read the notes in it.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Siemens-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144:g:JTMAAOSwZ1lWc-Dd


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Alright Elise owners or would be owners...  I repeat I have not tested it.
> 
> C3G adapters are up on eBay but will only ship on 24th Dec 2015. Read the notes in it.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Siemens-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144:g:JTMAAOSwZ1lWc-Dd



Ordered a pair. Don't think I could do a better job myself. Will you be testing those adapters UT?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Ordered a pair. Don't think I could do a better job myself. Will you be testing those adapters UT?


 

 Yes I will be testing it for sure. Have both adapters coming. This price is very good. $9.90 for one that is 'gold' plated. She told me she design a board for the connections instead of the traditional wiring. She also mention using silver. She's following hypnos1 lol.
  
 Which means my C3G adapters are not using the custom board...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes I will be testing it for sure. Have both adapters coming. This price is very good. $9.90 for one that is 'gold' plated.



Yea, I thought the price would be much higher, with the custom board and all. Mrs Xu Ling gave us all an early Christmas treat I think.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Yea, I thought the price would be much higher, with the custom board and all. Mrs Xu Ling gave us all an early Christmas treat I think.


 

 C3G sounds superb on Elise. I would urge everyone to try it. By far the most detail driver I've heard.
  
*Edit:-* Please remember it's C3G you want and not C3M or C3O.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm listening to C3G with 5998 now and it's like a hot knife going through butter. These are sniper's tube where the notes are shot through the crosshair and projected to your ears with pinpoint accuracy. You can dissect every single note. Most amazing treble clarity and details. Mid range and bass are ample and very entertaining especially if you pair it with 5998. 
  
 This is going to do incredibly well with any genre of music, be it classical, jazz, rock, blues, electronic, metal, dance, dubstep .... eh maybe not dubstep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That belongs to the Futons.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Chatham 6080WA vs 6080 MULLARD?


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Chatham 6080WA vs 6080 MULLARD?


 

 I've not heard the Chatham 6080WA but the Mullard 6080 I will recommend heartily.
  
 Chatham 6080WA should be fine especially at that price. Chatham doesn't make bad tubes.


----------



## mordy

Anybody tried the 6BL7 yet? I find this tube in combination with the FDD20 to sound great - everything I could ask for. This combination sounds better to me than the 20/31 and a pair of Mazda 6N7G. Another perfect 10?
  
 Have a pair of EL3N coming - waiting to order the adapters until I hear from UT how they work.


----------



## mordy

I have the Chatham 6080 and the Mullard 6080 tubes. The Chathams are hard hitting punchy tubes and not as sweet as the Mullard 6080 or the GE/RCA 6AS7GA.
  
 Did not find the Chathams pleasant to listen to in the long run.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I'm overtube at the moment. Any more and I have to sleep in the kennel. However I've ordered 3 pairs of EL3Ns. I still have not received the LED voltage regulator which I ordered ages ago. I think it's somewhere in the South China Seas.
  
 You did the right thing waiting for me to test the adapters first.


----------



## UntilThen

Oooh.... discounted. We should do a group buy and split.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-16-PIECES-6520-5998-CHATHAM-POWER-TRIODES-VINTAGE-USA-TUBES-6AS7-421A-/301782858560?hash=item4643a8fb40:g:SwMAAOSwBahVQbsO
  
 WAIT...these do not have the domino plates and I don't know why it's labelled as 5998. Seller did say it's 6520 though but they are certainly not the 5998 with domino plates.


----------



## Lord Raven

Could be possibly true, if I use stock tubes on the same setup, there is nothing, no hum, no noise, even if I touch the tubes, their bases, and this is how I expect other adaptations to work for me. I have a dead silent Elise, I am forced to use the stock tubes atm. I think I shall try grounding the extension cord to water hose or something.
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> The hum from the adapters disappear when you touch the RCA jack? That's not the adapters then. It's a grounding problem.


 
  
 I am struggling, I bought a pair of her golden ECC31 adapters and a replacement is coming from Suzier. I will report back. Regarding FDD20, I will buy a decent PS and then see, if it still hums, I will ask for a replacement.
  
 If I touch the tubes, or the adapters by her, it loudly hums.


suuup said:


> I did, but I removed it again. It didn't do anything for the hum + it looked really ugly, although I could've probably done a cleaner job, had it worked.
> 
> With Mrs Xu Lings golden adapters, there is no hum. It seems I did in fact get a faulty pair of adapters. There is hope @Lord Raven! My hum didn't disappear, when I touched the RCA jack though, so I'm not sure we have the same problem. Seems yours really is a grounding problem.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My sockets are only 2 wires, and the building is about 10 years old but in a very good shape. I need to set a ground point in the apartment.


suuup said:


> That might be why you don't have any hum. Just a bit curious here, @Lord Raven do you know the state of your electrical wiring in your house? @nephilim ? How old are the buildings?
> 
> I have no idea how the wiring is where I live, all I know is the building is about 45 years old. Guess that could be the reason why I have _few_ hum problems.


----------



## Lord Raven

This is exactly my point, I think adapters are adding a little bit of noise and hum to our setups. I tried to cover them with aluminum foil but nothing happened.
  
 Quote:


nephilim said:


> Yes, amp, external power supply and the Furman power conditioner have all three pin connectors - as have all the power outlets in my house. The only thing which has no ground is the USB hub for the DAC, which indeed adds some hum when connected to the DAC. But your question, JV, made me wonder whether I have a dedicated protective earth or whether PE and neutral wire might be linked, which was common practice a few decades ago. I still have no clue but today I bought a little tool which at least told me that the outlets are connected properly. Tomorrow I will open one of the wall sockets and check if there are three or just two wires.
> 
> Btw, I am running the Fivre 6N7G now... and last night. Yesterday I used xulingmrs' plastic ECC31 to ECC33 adapters (which added a strong hum) but today her 'gold plated'  adapters run much quieter. So I would not go that far to say that all her adapters are flawless  Apart from that the Fivre are close to the top of my list of favorites!


 
  
 You're definitely lucky but it is all due to your home being properly ground, we live in rental apartments  LOL
  
 If I talk to Mrs-X, she talks to you about it haha That was funny, I have a really hard time understanding her language, which is obvious as she's not a native speaker. I just need one last attempt at her adapters then I'll decide if I want to open them up like I did to the Suzier's 


untilthen said:


> Glad you love the Fivre 6N7G. Is that the brown base? I love all my Fivre 6A6, 6N7G and the brown base most of all.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if some adapters are problematic. They are made by humans after all.
> 
> ...


----------



## nephilim

suuup said:


> That might be why you don't have any hum. Just a bit curious here, @Lord Raven do you know the state of your electrical wiring in your house? @nephilim ? How old are the buildings?
> 
> I have no idea how the wiring is where I live, all I know is the building is about 45 years old. Guess that could be the reason why I have _few_ hum problems.


 

 My house is about 80 years old but -depending on the floor- was modernized 20, 10 and 3 years ago. I just checked the wall socket where the Elise is plugged in - it has the three wires and no link between PE and neutral. Oh... I also took the Elise to another house which was built 3 years ago, i.e. everything is new and up-to-date. Same hum.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> Oooh.... discounted. We should do a group buy and split.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-16-PIECES-6520-5998-CHATHAM-POWER-TRIODES-VINTAGE-USA-TUBES-6AS7-421A-/301782858560?hash=item4643a8fb40:g:SwMAAOSwBahVQbsO
> 
> WAIT...these do not have the domino plates and I don't know why it's labelled as 5998. Seller did say it's 6520 though but they are certainly not the 5998 with domino plates.


 
 That is not much of a deal...those are Chatham 6AS7 tubes....not 5998 tubes.
  
 Not bad tubes...but far from being the dynamics of a 5998.


----------



## nephilim

Hmm, one of my Fivre 6N7G is hissing strongly - went to the other adapters and changed positions... it's the tube  Have contacted the seller, maybe he has another one in stock.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Hahaha.... ok I'll listen to Wars of the World as a first listen with EL3N, in particular 'The Spirit of Man'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...don't forget - make this a first listen _*after*_ at least 40hrs' burn-in...this album deserves optimum conditions, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and as I mentioned a while back, it certainly does appear that multiple _*short *_sessions bring quicker results than long ones...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad you mentioned 'The Spirit of Man' track - up until now, I've been listening to just 'Forever Autumn' and 'Thunderchild' from disc1. But TSoM is also _extremely_ rousing, to be sure! - that 'rumble' at about 9' fair shook me out of my seat, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...be warned at what the EL3Ns do at this point! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These tracks, especially,  highlight beautifully the phenomenal range, energy, control and impact of the bass and mids frequencies. This is power of a kind that Elise has rarely shown before now...and one that eclipses C3g's abilities. This does in fact take me back to our Cambridge meet, where Acapella11's only slight reservation - he was otherwise very impressed with this amp - concerned this particular area. And I have to admit that his Questyle Current Mode Amp did handle fast-running bass notes, for example, with rather more definition and controlled timing. This gap was greatly reduced by using our ECC31/FDD20/2031 tubes (never tried the 6N7Gs...), but now - with the EL3Ns in place - I find no cause for concern in this area *whatsoever*...on the contrary, I never dreamt that Elise woud be able to step up to the mark in this way to such a surprising degree.
  
 The 'Forever Autumn' track also displays very well this amp's deft and versatile handling of delicate sections within an otherwise _very_ dynamic, powerful piece. The precision of the acoustic guitar notes is exquisite; Justin Hayward's voice has both softness _and _restrained power, with a tonal range I never before credited him with, and the initial 'mellow' character of this vocal piece then leads into the much more menacing dynamic and tone of horror and impending doom. You then hit this oft-mentioned 'Wall of Sound'...not a boring, 2-dimensional one, but one that weaves in all directions/planes more than the 'Great Wall of China', lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh btw, have I mentioned before this tube's ability - aided by Elise, of course! - with regard to note sustain and decay? (precision of attack goes without saying...).
 Anyway, many good recordings will show its prowess in this area quite clearly, but just focus on that final hanging acoustic guitar note in the left channel at about 4' and 5' in 'TSoM'...wonderful!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Re your last line..._*Oh ye of little faith!!!*_





...but fear not, I _too_ would find it hard to believe the words I have been uttering! -  in fact, I have to keep pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming it all up...perhaps I'm not pinching myself _hard_ enough, lol!...Ah well, time will tell...
  
 BFN


----------



## nephilim

One more thought regarding hum... this is what I am hearing: http://onlinetonegenerator.com -> 50Hz (triangle comes closest). If I understand ground loops correctly the source device (DAC) needs to be connected to the wall socket, too. But here the hum also occurs when nothing is plugged into the input sockets and nothing but the headphones is sitting on the output side. I also hear the hum when I interrupt the link to PE.
  
 Would it be valid to conclude that the reason for the hum is not external but inside the amp?


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> One more thought regarding hum... this is what I am hearing: http://onlinetonegenerator.com -> 50Hz (triangle comes closest). If I understand ground loops correctly the source device (DAC) needs to be connected to the wall socket, too. *But here the hum also occurs when nothing is plugged into the input sockets *and nothing but the headphones is sitting on the output side. I also hear the hum when I interrupt the link to PE.
> 
> Would it be valid to conclude that the reason for the hum is not external but inside the amp?


 
 Hi neph...looks like you really do have a tricky one here, lol! You could obviously do with a friendly electronics engineer nearby whom you could bribe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm only sorry I don't know enough about electrics/electronics to be of any real help to you, alas. All I can say is that my amp does indeed start to hum (thru HPs) at about 11o'clock and increases as the pot is turned up. But it disappears as soon as the signal cuts in.
  
 Wishing you the best of luck...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> One more thought regarding hum... this is what I am hearing: http://onlinetonegenerator.com -> 50Hz (triangle comes closest). If I understand ground loops correctly the source device (DAC) needs to be connected to the wall socket, too. But here the hum also occurs when nothing is plugged into the input sockets and nothing but the headphones is sitting on the output side. I also hear the hum when I interrupt the link to PE.
> 
> Would it be valid to conclude that the reason for the hum is not external but inside the amp?




Very good Neph on the site that demonstrates what you hear. Your 50hz triangle wave buzz is very similar to what I hear in the externally powered FDD20's before properly grounded. 

Have you tried grounding all components to the same ground?

For instance - I had a lot of trouble from a turntable. Hum city, I tried adding a new ground wire attached to the metal frame of the table. This would help, but eventually, the hum would creep back in. With turntables, you always ground to the place where the RIAA cartridge preamp exists. That could be the amp (w/built in preamp) or to a separate preamp.

The hum always returned, I could refresh the ground and it would "almost" go away, but slowly return over time until very noticeable where I would work with it again (sanding off area where the added ground wire made connection, etc). 

My pesky turntable ground problems were finally ended for good by running my ground all the way back to the ground pin in the AC outlet. I don't ground to the cartridge preamp now, at all. This finally, completely eliminated the hum entirely. The table is now my quietest source. I had never tried running the "ground all the way back to the outlet ground pin" before, and got the idea from h1's descriptions of getting rid of his FDD20 hum problems.

Even though it's a pain...may I suggest you make sure all components have a clear path back to the AC outlet ground pin?

And this, only after you use your tool to determine that the outlet in question is, in fact, properly grounded.

Cheers and luck with the Hum, Neph - there is some ground step, overlooked, that is causing the problem, I think.


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


> Very good Neph on the site that demonstrates what you hear. Your 50hz triangle wave buzz is very similar to what I hear in the externally powered FDD20's before properly grounded.
> 
> Have you tried grounding all components to the same ground?
> 
> ...


 

 JV, my Elise hums even with NO source component attached.
  
 I have to admit today is the first day I seriously consider selling/returning the Elise.
  
 Btw, I had a LittleDot before. It was dead silent (via cans) but the (cheap) trafo buzzed a bit. I guess that sort of proves that an amp can run quiet in my house


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> That is not much of a deal...those are Chatham 6AS7 tubes....not 5998 tubes.
> 
> Not bad tubes...but far from being the dynamics of a 5998.


 

 Yup Whirlwind, I realise they are not 5998 despite '5998' being labelled on the tubes base. Very misleading.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> JV, my Elise hums even with NO source component attached.
> 
> I have to admit today is the first day I seriously consider selling/returning the Elise.
> 
> Btw, I had a LittleDot before. It was dead silent (via cans) but the (cheap) trafo buzzed a bit. I guess that sort of proves that an amp can run quiet in my house




The AC is properly grounded? Can't understand Feliks Audio not hearing it, and solving it. 

Just for the absolute heck of it...try an additional ground wire to the entire Elise?

I battled the turntable hum for years, but the fix was simple...in the end.

Hear ya on LD MK IV never having a problem....I had one too, also dead silent.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi neph...looks like you really do have a tricky one here, lol! You could obviously do with a friendly electronics engineer nearby whom you could bribe!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My Elise does not have that problem so I'm very surprise to hear that. Just did a test. With no music playing, volume to the max. With music paused, volume to the max. Volume increase to 12 before music cuts in...now I dare not go higher as it would be foolish to set my volume to max before music cuts in. That's a sure way to say goodbye to my hearing.
  
 In all of the above scenarios, I hear not a single murmur, buzz, hiss or sound. It's total blackness. I'm impressed. Only a solid state does that but my Elise does that as well.
  
 I really am sorry for those with perpetual humming problems. If I had been in your shoes, I would have given up too but all I have is a beautifully crafted tube amp that sounds so marvellous, I still can't believe it.


----------



## nephilim

jazzvinyl said:


> The AC is properly grounded? Can't understand Feliks Audio not hearing it, and solving it.
> 
> Just for the absolute heck of it...try an additional ground wire to the entire Elise?
> 
> ...


 

 I just linked the input (or pre-out) RCA outer contact with the heating pipe - no effect.
  
 The hum strongly depends on the gain of the drivers. It's almost gone with 6BL7 and very prominent with the Mazda 6N7G.
  
 Re H1's statement... if volume goes past 70% I start to hear some other sounds, but that depends strongly on the tube.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...don't forget - make this a first listen _*after*_ at least 40hrs' burn-in...this album deserves optimum conditions, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow thanks for the most detail impressions H1. The Spirit of Man is a haunting track. On Elise with good sounding tubes and HE560, I get goosebumps. Nathaniel is going crazy. I'm just crazily happy with what I hear with FDD20 and 5998. It's audio nirvana. If this is journey's end for tube rolling on Elise, I would have been totally happy. The same goes for the Fivre 6N7G brown base. There's similarities in sound between those 2. Incredible I know. At any volume, sound is how it should be. Euphonic and holographic. I've never been so lavish with my praise for tubes as I'm doing now. The beauty is the pair of Philips Miniwatt FDD20 cost me just $69 and the Fivre 6N7G brown base 65 euro. Much cheaper than the ECC31.
  
 I expect the EL3Ns and both sets of adapters from Mrs Xuling to arrive this week before Christmas or at least before the year's end.
  
 What a beautiful way to end the year. Elise's 1st anniversary is coming up on the 24th Dec. I'll be spending my time with an indulgent glass of champagne and my favourite tracks as I reminisce on the last 2 months of ecstasy that's only getting better and better.
  
 Cheers everyone.





 
  
 P/S where's @Acapella11? I need to convince him to get Elise now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He has a short review of Elise that I was impressed with. Same with @Lorspeaker. I quote those 2 that helped convinced me to get Elise and the irony of it, both of them didn't get Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh if only they know what they are missing. 
  
 Their comments from the 1st thread...
  


lorspeaker said:


> My DV336se is just a singlebarrel 6as7+6sn7 combo...
> but this ELISE is a DOUBLE barrel whammer,
> from what i am hearing out of the DV, this ELISE should more than satisfy.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


acapella11 said:


> Hi Hypnos1, tjw321, Nic and everyone else
> 
> Thanks H1 to write this nice report. You should, in fact post it on the UK Meet page, too =)
> 
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

nephilim said:


> I just linked the input (or pre-out) RCA outer contact with the heating pipe - no effect.
> 
> The hum strongly depends on the gain of the drivers. It's almost gone with 6BL7 and very prominent with the Mazda 6N7G.
> 
> Re H1's statement... if volume goes past 70% I start to hear some other sounds, but that depends strongly on the tube.




I am sorry to hear this, Neph. I must say you have been far more patient with this, than I would have been. I would have been asking for am AMP that does NOT HUM, and insisting on it. 

You sent it back, waited patiently, and accepted the idea that a loose resistor was the problem, only to find no change in the HUM once it was back.

The fact that the LD MK IV didn't have this problem certainly speaks for a problem with the amp.

It's a shame we could not solve this via creative grounding.

.


----------



## UntilThen




----------



## UntilThen

@nephilim escalate this problem with Lukasz. You have a 2 years warranty which they will hold good I can assure you. It's a marvel you put up with the hum for so long. I would have seek a resolution within 3 months of discovering it and doing all that you can to resolve it.
  
 In any case, if this gets nowhere let me know. I will speak to Lukasz myself.
  
 Cheers
 UT


----------



## nephilim

Thanks but I will sort this out by myself. I have one last thing in mind which I will try tomorrow or throughout the Christmas holiday. If that does not solve the issue I will ask them if I may visit them and check whether it is my or their hearing. I do not want to part with #11 - it is a great amp for sure.


----------



## Lorspeaker

New year new BALANCE..... waiting for a seperation of channels, from Feliks


----------



## UntilThen

Ok let's all go and visit them and get a tour of Feliks Audio plant. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And mine is #22 ...


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> New year new BALANCE..... waiting for a seperation of channels, from Feliks


 

 You don't need balance if unbalance is already sounding this good and cheap. Remind yourself...your own words...it's double barrels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And PM me to get a pair of those juicy red EL3Ns...before stocks runs out.


----------



## UntilThen

*IS BALANCED CONNECTION BETTER?*
  
 Read this http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/is-balanced-connection-better-1/


----------



## mordy

Hi nephilim,
  
 Here are my experiences with hum in the Elise: As you say, it depends on the tubes. With any ST 6N7G, ECC31 and FDD20 I get hum. To check the hum, I turn off the music source and turn the volume up on the Elise, and then I listen to the noise through my integrated amp (all listening through speakers). At very loud listening levels there is a marked hum. For some strange reason the hum increases as I turn up the volume on the Elise, but near full volume it decreases, but does not go away.
  
 So I leave my Elise on full volume, and adjust the playing volume through my integrated amp. At 50-60% volume I cannot hear any hum; after that the hum gets louder and louder. Luckily, I do not need more than 30-40% volume to get satisfying levels. Even playing a recording recorded at very low sound levels and turning up the volume to 70% does not let the hum through since it is masked by the music (OK- it is irritating to know that it is there but I cannot hear it unless I disconnect the music.)
  
All this is using speakers. Headphones are a different story. First of all, even with the 6BL7, turning the volume past 12 o'clock, it is too loud (most tubes only require 9-10 o'clock), so I cannot use the Elise volume knob turned up all the way up as I do with speakers. There is a pronounced hum through my headphones (Yamaha MT-220) at any listening level using the above listed ST tubes, and I cannot listen at all through the Elise using them.
  
 Other tubes produce less hum, and the headphones are listenable.
  
 The solution? My amp has a headphone output, and for some reason the hum is gone there - no problem. But the sound is not as satisfying as directly through the Elise.
  
 Tried various grounding ideas - some made things worse and some slightly better. I have a grounded power supply for the FDD20. Connected a wire to the negative 12V output and connected it to the RCA negative side of the plug on the Elise - with a resulting whining sound. Strangely enough, just letting the wire hang there without being connected to something at the other end lowers the hum a little bit (!).
  
 My room is a veritable snake pit of cables, wires and extension chords, usb hubs, portable phones, wi-fi router and fluorescent and LED lights. It is just too much work for me to go through all the stuff and try to sort out the culprit - I am happy enough with what I have.
  
 Tried yesterday to connect the Elise to an unswitched AC output on my integrated amp. It says max 100W - hope the Elise doesn't draw more current. It is not grounded so I had to use a "cheater plug" converting grounded into ungrounded. It did lower the noise slightly, but I am afraid to use it....
  
 In sum, I find that the hum is to a large extent tube dependent, and that I can find workable solutions around it that do not impact on my listening pleasure.


----------



## UntilThen

All this hum is making me giddy. Am I the only one who is hum free with ANY tubes? 
  
 FDD20, ECC31, 6N7G, 6A6, 6SN7, 7N7, 6N7, 5998, 6AS7G, 6080, 7236, 6N23P, 6CG7, 6GU7, 6BQ7A, 6520, C3G, 6N13S, etc. 
  
 Would you believe it, none of these hum in Elise alone or Elise as preamp to my receiver. Regardless of any volume, I have no hum.
  
 Have a good day. I have to go shopping for Christmas now.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> All this hum is making me giddy. Am I the only one who is hum free with ANY tubes?
> 
> FDD20, ECC31, 6N7G, 6A6, 6SN7, 7N7, 6N7, 5998, 6AS7G, 6080, 7236, 6N23P, 6CG7, 6GU7, 6BQ7A, 6520, C3G, 6N13S, etc.
> 
> ...


 

 & i am humming you a song ... believe me, you now have hum ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 <edit>  to be serious: i don't have an elise (yet).  but i also don't have hum with grace m920, little bear p8 nor asl headphone pre dt in my system (latter two are tube-based).  i use both run of the mill and custom power cables & use them interchangeably amongst various components.  in the past, i've had interconnects which gave rise to huge hum problems - my current interconnects do not.


----------



## UntilThen

Lol thanks geetarman.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Lol thanks geetarman.


 
 always welcome, my good man ... or should i say 'fair dinkum'?
  
 & where is @Lord Raven?   did the christmas elves bring some tunes??


----------



## Suuup

@nephilim Where in Germany do you live? If it's in northern Germany, I could lug my Elise along next time I'm going for a soda run.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm in south eastern Australia Suuup.
Lug me along.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I'm in south eastern Australia Suuup.
> Lug me along.


 
 Let's see. I have an hour to the German border. Assuming Neph lives in northern Germany, it would probably take me around 3 hours if I drove directly to him, add an hour for buying sodas. Now add the slight detour to Australia and I think I should be home sometime before spring.  
  
 I'll get started converting the car into a boat/car-hybrid.


----------



## Suuup

I've been listening to a Danish band called Shu-Bi-Dua lately. They started making music in the early 70's and have been making music up until 2011, when the lead singer had a stroke. It's basically a bunch of guys making music because they like it and virtually everyone in Denmark knows who they are. It is 'hygge'-music. Christmas is a time for hygge. 
 At first, I used the Fivres and the 5998s. Sounded horrible. The recordings aren't all of a good quality. Changed my headphones from my T1s to my Beyer 990s. Better, but still to heavy. Changed into Joybringers and Mullard 6080. Bliss. This was actually a good match for their music. 
  
 I don't think there's one tube that matches every song.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am largely HUM free. If I try, I can make plastic adapters hum a little by placing my fingers next to the plastic barrels of the adapters.

FDD20's and my first external heater power supply did require the extra ground to Elise rca jack, outer sleeve. The HUM without it was overwhelming indeed. Since, grounded external power supplies, do not need the extra ground wire.

When I first got my Elise there were loud pops and cracks when first turning it on, until it warmed up well...with all tubes. This lasted for the first 3 weeks or so. Not done it, since.

And I have a few tubes that make some weird noises when warming up (normal not a concern).


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have added a little Lepai 20 watt amp and "Overnight Sensation" DIY speakers to my Elise table.

Works great, 5 input selections (4 digital plus the Turntable) go to Elise as preamp, which feeds the Lepai amp, that drives the Overnight Sensation speakers (that are amazing in that they are small speakers, that manage to sound BIG).

Loving this option, I can now enjoy the Elise and move about and get things done 

(( Going to repaint the Overnight Sensation speaker cabinets in an oil based paint, soon. ))

Lepai Amp (has separate bass/treble adjustments, but no balance control) for USD $20.00 you can't beat it:
http://www.parts-express.com/lepai-lp-2020a-tripath-class-t-hi-fi-audio-mini-amplifier-with-power-supply--310-300

And the DIY Overnight Sensation speakers (you will be amazed by the BIG sound): 
http://www.parts-express.com/overnight-sensations-mt-speaker-kit-pair--300-706

I bought my Overnight Sensation kit from another company, years ago and paid only $89.00 shipped for the pair, they sometimes go on a deeper sale at Parts Express, too.






Cheers....


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I've been listening to a Danish band called Shu-Bi-Dua lately. They started making music in the early 70's and have been making music up until 2011, when the lead singer had a stroke. It's basically a bunch of guys making music because they like it and virtually everyone in Denmark knows who they are. It is 'hygge'-music. Christmas is a time for hygge.
> At first, I used the Fivres and the 5998s. Sounded horrible. The recordings aren't all of a good quality. Changed my headphones from my T1s to my Beyer 990s. Better, but still to heavy. Changed into Joybringers and Mullard 6080. Bliss. This was actually a good match for their music.
> 
> I don't think there's one tube that matches every song.




I will have to check it out, Suuup, since i don't know what "hygge-music" is!

That is what I LOVE about a Tube amp....ability to tune it to suite!! Yee-Haw!!



.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> I will have to check it out, Suuup, since i don't know what "hygge-music" is!
> 
> That is what I LOVE about a Tube amp....ability to tune it to suite!! Yee-Haw!!
> 
> ...


 I'm not sure you'll like it JV, as it's mostly in Danish. Even the few tunes in English still has a lot of Danish humor, which most non-Danish people probably won't understand. It's not so much the music itself that is good, although some of it is, it's more the atmosphere / mood it puts you in. It's sing along music essentially.


Hygge is a Danish word that has no translation. You know, when it's almost Christmas, it's snowing outside, cake is in the oven, family is over and everyone is just happy. That is hygge. When you're sitting at a bar with a couple of guys, getting a cold beer, talking about the good old times. That is hygge. This is the sort of music I'd listen to in the kitchen while preparing a good meal for the family, dancing around a little sometimes. 

Okay, I'm rambling. If you're interested in more hygge, there's an alright description of it here LINK
. The video isn't too good though. Doesn't really explain it at all.


----------



## Suuup

suuup said:


> I'm not sure you'll like it JV, as it's mostly in Danish. Even the few tunes in English still has a lot of Danish humor, which most non-Danish people probably won't understand. It's not so much the music itself that is good, although some of it is, it's more the atmosphere / mood it puts you in. It's sing along music essentially.
> 
> 
> Hygge is a Danish word that has no translation. You know, when it's almost Christmas, it's snowing outside, cake is in the oven, family is over and everyone is just happy. That is hygge. When you're sitting at a bar with a couple of guys, getting a cold beer, talking about the good old times. That is hygge. This is the sort of music I'd listen to in the kitchen while preparing a good meal for the family, dancing around a little sometimes.
> ...




Edit: whoops, pressed the quote button and not the edit button.


----------



## UntilThen

Who would have thought of a name like 'Overnight Sensation' for a bedside speakers?

Imagine calling a tube amp Humfree or Tubekillers.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Just throwing in another suggestion for inexpensive very good speakers that you don't have to build yourselves:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22-LR-Designed-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers/dp/B008NCD2LG/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
  
 These speakers cost $129.00 shipped for a pair.
  
 There is an earlier version called BS-21-LR that I have that also is available for even less.
  
 These speakers get very good reviews in Stereophile and on Amazon as well.


----------



## UntilThen

I was happy when a parcel came today but all I got was this...
  


 should I use this to light up the Christmas tree?


----------



## nojdrof

I know this is off subject but I found this doing tube research and thought you guy's would get a kick out of this. I might have to cancel the order for my Elise and get one of these. 

https://youtu.be/j20SItUNVy4


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> I know this is off subject but I found this doing tube research and thought you guy's would get a kick out of this. I might have to cancel the order for my Elise and get one of these.
> 
> https://youtu.be/j20SItUNVy4


 

 If you believe that, you need to watch this.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIFJLMyUwrg
  
 .... and Obi Wan Kenobi has Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Who would have thought of a name like 'Overnight Sensation' for a bedside speakers?
> 
> 
> "Overnight Sensations"..
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Just throwing in another suggestion for inexpensive very good speakers that you don't have to build yourselves:
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy...

Yes, know about these! I have not heard them but bought a pair for a friend of mine, last Christmas, 2014. He was building a complicated 3 way system and was far from finished, sent him a pair of these to see if he liked. 
He reported they sounded incredibly good. I have been tempted to buy them and compare to the Overnight Sensations. 

These were also $89.00 shipped when I bought him the pair in 2014.

Do you have the SP-BS22-LR's, Mordy? I have been told the earlier 21's are not as good sounding as the 22's?

.


----------



## UntilThen

There was a period when I was awed by Elise as preamp. Incredible details and soundstage suddenly from my Axis LS28 bookshelf speakers driven by 100 RMS watts per channel Sherwood Newcastle receiver.
  
 However nothing beats using Elise as a dedicated headphone amp and listening through a pair of good headphone like the HE560. Headphone listening brings out the details, instrument separation and intimacy. Stereo speaker sound will never be this way. Just witness how popular head-fi has become now as hi-fi declines in popularity. It will take a very expensive hi-fi setup to get the sound I'm hearing with my head-fi setup now and that is not an idle boast.
  
 Elise with FDD20 and 5998 is some serious sound, coupled with HE560 it's sonic heaven. I've never been smitten this way before. Not even with the amount I poured into the Dynaudio splits and Morel Ultimo car sound system. This is how good my Elise setup sounds now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> There was a period when I was awed by Elise as preamp. Incredible details and soundstage suddenly from my Axis LS28 bookshelf speakers driven by 100 RMS watts per channel Sherwood Newcastle receiver.
> 
> However nothing beats using Elise as a dedicated headphone amp and listening through a pair of good headphone like the HE560. Headphone listening brings out the details, instrument separation and intimacy. Stereo speaker sound will never be this way. Just witness how popular head-fi has become now as hi-fi declines in popularity. It will take a very expensive hi-fi setup to get the sound I'm hearing with my head-fi setup now and that is not an idle boast.
> 
> Elise with FDD20 and 5998 is some serious sound, coupled with HE560 it's sonic heaven. I've never been smitten this way before. Not even with the amount I poured into the Dynaudio splits and Morel Ultimo car sound system. This is how good my Elise setup sounds now.




Hello UT...

Totally agree about Headphone listening, I never meant to indicate this mini speaker system was better, sonically, than headphone listening, from a purely audiophile type of enjoyment factor. 

I am greatly enjoying the freedom of moving about/getting things done 

Also...
Hi-Fi has declined, as "Home Theatre" has exploded, in popularity.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Also...
> Hi-Fi has declined, as "Home Theatre" has exploded, in popularity.


 
 Now that is as big a mistake as going from vinyl to CD. All the new gimmicks last for a short time. I remember when I first got my 3D Samsung TV. The family was engrossed for weeks watching 3D movies with 3D glasses. Now the glasses are untouched. Even the doggy doesn't want it. Likewise the iPod and iPhone craze. Remember how everyone queue up the night before for a new iPhone release? Incredible. All this hype.
  
 Then they introduce Google glasses. LOL. What's next? Amidst all this, we've gone back to what was good...that is tube amp. Now that is the smartest move us homo sapiens have made.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

untilthen said:


> I was happy when a parcel came today but all I got was this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have one on order too!

 It should enable me to use any old AC adapter greater than 12V to get the 12.6V you want! I think it's an awesome gadget. I'm using an old HP laptop 19.2V adapter with this gem to get a nice 12V supply.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Now that is as big a mistake as going from vinyl to CD. All the new gimmicks last for a short time. I remember when I first got my 3D Samsung TV. The family was engrossed for weeks watching 3D movies with 3D glasses. Now the glasses are untouched. Even the doggy doesn't want it. Likewise the iPod and iPhone craze. Remember how everyone queue up the night before for a new iPhone release? Incredible. All this hype.
> 
> Then they introduce Google glasses. LOL. What's next? Amidst all this, we've gone back to what was good...that is tube amp. Now that is the smartest move us homo sapiens have made.




We never went for the 3D TV deal. And I was delighted when Google Glass failed in the marketplace!

I don't consider going from Vinyl to CD a "mistake". It takes great care and patience and knowledge to get the most out of Vinyl. Most folks don't wanna...so CD brought "audiophile quality" to the masses. New generations of DAC's have made the CD medium even more viable, in my opinion.

I do still love my (3) 160 Gig iPod's - all bought used from folks who were dumping them for the iPod Touch (because it connected to the internet).

But yeah, lots of hype is right. And Social Media helps to hype stuff.

When I tell people I love audio via Tubes made in 1943...they BELLY LAUGH...especially young folks. Who have no idea, and assume a "miniature digital amp" MUST be FAR FAR better.

And so it goes ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

perfectanalog said:


> I have one on order too!
> 
> It should enable me to use any old AC adapter greater than 12V to get the 12.6V you want! I think it's an awesome gadget. I'm using an old HP laptop 19.2V adapter with this gem to get a nice 12V supply.




I have one - also hooked up to a grounded 19.2 volt computer supply and yes, you can dial in 12.6 easily and exactly.

It's a really great gadget!!! I love mine!! 

Think Mordy pointed us to these 



.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

nojdrof said:


> I know this is off subject but I found this doing tube research and thought you guy's would get a kick out of this. I might have to cancel the order for my Elise and get one of these.
> 
> https://youtu.be/j20SItUNVy4




I think I could be friends with this guy.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> always welcome, my good man ... or should i say 'fair dinkum'?
> 
> & where is @Lord Raven?   did the christmas elves bring some tunes??


 
 LOL Don, the elves are efficient in delivering, however, the santa is busy processing some more tunes  I am expecting my tunes to arrive before new years eve now..


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 I have the earlier 21 model. However, all my listening is done through three Polk speakers; two Monitor 50 and a 50W self powered subwoofer SW10. These speakers cost $80 each and sound very good.
  
 Personally I cannot get used to headphone listening for long periods, and I feel that the sound stage isn't as good as with speakers. Compared to my headphones (Yamaha MT-220) I hear more detail with my speakers.
  
 HI UT,
  
 I assume you got a 5A voltage converter. It is important to know that when the tubes start up, the current draw can approach triple the rated current draw,  so calculate the amp ratings accordingly.
  
 Credit for finding these inexpensive wonders goes to Gibosi on the Little Dot thread.


----------



## nojdrof

Any suggestions on the best inexpensive way to play a turntable through the Elise? I currently have a VPI Classic using a mm cartridge running through my Integra 40.1. Should I just get a phono preamp or stage? 

Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> There was a period when I was awed by Elise as preamp. Incredible details and soundstage suddenly from my Axis LS28 bookshelf speakers driven by 100 RMS watts per channel Sherwood Newcastle receiver.
> 
> However nothing beats using Elise as a dedicated headphone amp and listening through a pair of good headphone like the HE560. Headphone listening brings out the details, instrument separation and intimacy. Stereo speaker sound will never be this way. Just witness how popular head-fi has become now as hi-fi declines in popularity. It will take a very expensive hi-fi setup to get the sound I'm hearing with my head-fi setup now and that is not an idle boast.
> 
> Elise with FDD20 and 5998 is some serious sound, coupled with HE560 it's sonic heaven. I've never been smitten this way before. Not even with the amount I poured into the Dynaudio splits and Morel Ultimo car sound system. This is how good my Elise setup sounds now.


 
  
 Hey UT, you beat me to it lol!...yet another result of using these EL3Ns - with my Beyer T1s, at least! - is that I too have finally come to the conclusion that I now *much* prefer listening this way, rather than through my (very good) Dynaudios. This is something I never, ever dreamt I would be saying...but there, I've said it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. This sound is doing something to me *way* beyond anything I would have thought possible...could this be what real 'hi-end' sound is all about LOL? All I can say is that I have never been transported away to this degree in all the past 3 years of discovering the glory of tube amps...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I exaggerate not...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..(Christmas, for me, has indeed come early...as it hopefully will for a good few others...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

This is Sparta !!!!   We're on page 300. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yuppers Mordy I have a 5A voltage numerical random generator. My 12V 6A AC adapter (grounded !!!) is already working well. It will take a lot for me to get my spare IBM 16V 3.36A going with the voltage regulator now. Unless I like watching LED blinking.
  
 JV, it doesn't take a lot to get vinyl going. Just wash it under the tap. Throw it a few times as frisbee to dry, Pop it in the kitchen chopping block, line up the needle and eureka, music !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 H1, you're putting high-end audio out of business with this tube. I'm thinking about the EL3N... besides it sounding very good as you've discovered and all of us are dying to have a listen too... it's the colour !!! It came at Christmas time !!! EL3N is a Christmas tube for us. There'll be a lot of jingles and jungles.


----------



## JazzVinyl

nojdrof said:


> Any suggestions on the best inexpensive way to play a turntable through the Elise? I currently have a VPI Classic using a mm cartridge running through my Integra 40.1. Should I just get a phono preamp or stage?
> 
> Thanks




Yes, an RIAA cartridge preamp, then Elise and your good to go. This site has decent, inexpensive "all transistor" phono preamps:

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750pp.html


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, it doesn't take a lot to get vinyl going. Just wash it under the tap. Throw it a few times as frisbee to dry, Pop it in the kitchen chopping block, line up the needle and eureka, music !!!




I have a feeling that your not quite getting the "most" SQ out of your vinyl.

:rolleyes:

.


----------



## nephilim

suuup said:


> Let's see. I have an hour to the German border. Assuming Neph lives in northern Germany, it would probably take me around 3 hours if I drove directly to him, add an hour for buying sodas.


 
  
 Berlin is a good place to drink... soda


----------



## nephilim

mordy said:


> Hi nephilim,
> 
> Here are my experiences with hum in the Elise: As you say, it depends on the tubes. With any ST 6N7G, ECC31 and FDD20 I get hum. To check the hum, I turn off the music source and turn the volume up on the Elise, and then I listen to the noise through my integrated amp (all listening through speakers). At very loud listening levels there is a marked hum. For some strange reason the hum increases as I turn up the volume on the Elise, but near full volume it decreases, but does not go away.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi mordy,
  
 that sounds very familiar! Constant hum (including volume at zero) via headphones depending on tubes. In my case the 6BL7 has little but easily discernible hum, both 6N7G (Fivre & Mazda) are almost hurting my ears as in addition to the 50Hz hum there seems to be a lower (25Hz ?) component. The ECC31 are almost dead silent - I have to focus on the hum to hear it. C3g are a bit louder than 6BL7 but with the additional sub-frequency as the 6N7G. FDD20 are similar to C3g but a bit less bassy.
  
 It's almost amusing that I am comparing hum instead of the sound of music 
  
 I tried cleaning the pins again... no effect.
  
 I guess the only way is to visit Feliks - or return the amp. Two further checks in isolated areas (the infamous garden shed) and two different houses - then I have to decide. It cannot go on like this.


----------



## mordy

Hi nephilim,
  
 I am able to live with the hum I have, happily, since I don't hear it listening through speakers. I have no doubt that the hum could be made to disappear, especially since so many people report that they don't have the problem.
  
 Don't give up, be patient, and let me know when you find the solution to your ground loop or whatever it is.


----------



## nephilim

I made a small step ahead. The fdd20 became almost silent except some slight hum in the right channel, which stayed there even after swapping driver and power tubes. I could remove that hum by touching the rca sockets. Then the amp was quiet. I still have to understand why the initial louder hum disappeared after a few hours. And why the hum is louder in the right channel (same situation with c3g)... Need some sleep now.


----------



## Suuup

nephilim said:


> I made a small step ahead. The fdd20 became almost silent except some slight hum in the right channel, which stayed there even after swapping driver and power tubes. I could remove that hum by touching the rca sockets. Then the amp was quiet. I still have to understand why the initial louder hum disappeared after a few hours. And why the hum is louder in the right channel (same situation with c3g)... Need some sleep now.



Easy solution Neph, just buy a bratwurst and place it up against the RCA sockets.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I made a small step ahead. The fdd20 became almost silent except some slight hum in the right channel, which stayed there even after swapping driver and power tubes. *I could remove that hum by touching the rca sockets.* Then the amp was quiet. *I still have to understand why the initial louder hum disappeared after a few hours.* And why the hum is louder in the right channel (same situation with c3g)... Need some sleep now.


 

 I had a Philips Miniwatt FDD20 that hum in one channel when I first inserted it. It went away after I reseat it properly. In my case, it's the contact.
  
 To date, I still have no hum on any of my tubes, from the weird ones to the normal ones. My Fivre and Mazda together with the Visseaix 6N7G are amongst my sweetest sounding tubes. I even prefer them to the ECC31. If I can blow fairy dust to cure you guys hum problems I will. Other than that you have to come and listen to my setup that is totally hum free and marvel at it.
  
 What you have done there (in bold) is grounding it. That is something to work on.
  
 On my Darkvoice 336se, my Raytheon 7N7 hum like a bird for a few days but I persisted with using it and it went away completely.


----------



## UntilThen

It's ground loop. Solve that and you'll be hum free. Change a different DAC and test it. 
  
 I didn't do anything special. My DAC is not DOM (DAC of the month). It's just a humble NAD D1050 with a grounded 3pin plug that came factory direct. I use cheap USB cable and RCA interconnect and PC power cord. I use black and gold adapters from different sellers. My tubes comes from all corners of the globe, both used and NOS. I'm a novice in electronics. I just setup as per instructions. My setup is hum free.


----------



## aqsw

QSold my Oppo HA-1 today. I placed an order on a tube dac. Takes 3-4 weeks to build. Made in Vancouver, Canada. The Hegel dac and Cavalli LC will go to my office . The new dac and Elise will be my home listener.

The dac is space tech labs DA-24/192 super


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> QSold my Oppo HA-1 today. I placed an order on a tube dac. Takes 3-4 weeks to build. Made in Vancouver, Canada. The Hegel dac and Cavalli LC will go to my office . The new dac and Elise will be my home listener.
> 
> The dac is space tech labs DA-24/192 super


 

 Want to see my custom Made in China tube DAC?


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> QSold my Oppo HA-1 today. I placed an order on a tube dac. Takes 3-4 weeks to build. Made in Vancouver, Canada. The Hegel dac and Cavalli LC will go to my office . The new dac and Elise will be my home listener.
> 
> The dac is space tech labs DA-24/192 super





WOW!! Pretty exciting, aqsw!! Congrats!

Going for the black or silver?

http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/DA-24_192-Super.php




.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> WOW!! Pretty exciting, aqsw!! Congrats!
> 
> Going for the black or silver?
> 
> ...


 

 Dang using EL34 and KT88? That's more high tech than my Aune T1. 
  
 Ummm Albert has some interesting products including custom turntables.


----------



## UntilThen

Fotons 6N8S drivers on duty today and they sound pretty good. 4 for $8 on eBay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No adapters required.
 These Fotons hum loudly on my Darkvoice 336se but totally silent on Elise.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> WOW!! Pretty exciting, aqsw!! Congrats!
> 
> Going for the black or silver?
> 
> ...




All black


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> It could be your adapters having problems but I doubt very much. I have bought from Mrs Xu Ling these adapters:-
> 
> octal socket savers for 6SN7
> 6SN7 to 6922
> ...


 
 Hi there,
 How is your HE-560 with this amp, any words on HEX and how would this amp pair up with them???


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi there,
> How is your HE-560 with this amp, any words on HEX and how would this amp pair up with them???


 

 Here's my mini impressions of HE560 with Elise.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/1035#post_12038786
  
 Also a reference to it on my review of Elise
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14724
  
 This user also did a review and said Elise drives HE-6 satisfactorily. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14259
  
 Short answer, HE560 is perfect with Elise. I have not heard the HEX nor do I know of anyone that uses HEX with Elise. There are 2 users of LCD2.2 with Elise and they are ecstatic with them.
  
 I hardly use my HD650 with Elise now because HE560 sounds so good on it. I heartily recommend HE560 with Elise because you approached high end sound without the high end cost.


----------



## B-60

Thank you,
 I am getting my HEX on Wednesday, and I do have HE560 at this moment and driving them with LYR2 Amperex tubes, sound very good to my ears
 One more thing ,I am just wondering if that would be a good match, considering that they are much easier to drive, I do love tubes and tubes sound, and with the right match I will be in heaven soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think I will be ordering the amp after X-mas!!!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Thank you,
> I am getting my HEX on Wednesday, and I do have HE560 at this moment and driving them with LYR2 Amperex tubes, sound very good to my ears
> One more thing ,I am just wondering if that would be a good match, considering that they are much easier to drive, I do love tubes and tubes sound, and with the right match I will be in heaven soon
> 
> ...


 

 HE560 loves a tube amp. So i'm not surprised it sounded good with Lyr 2 and Amperex tubes.
  
 Elise can drive high and low impedance headphones. Drives Beyer T1 600ohms like a charm and HE560 (32ohms and 92db) works like a treat.
  
 What is the HEX's specs? Below...looks alright to me...sensitivity is high. Should be an awesome HP. Congrats.
  
*Frequency Response : 8Hz-50kHz
Sensitivity : 103dB
Impedance : 25 ± 3 ohm
Weight : 14.07 Oz (399 g)*
  
*@B-60*, when you get Elise, I'll be waiting for a detailed review from you with HEX.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> HE560 loves a tube amp. So i'm not surprised it sounded good with Lyr 2 and Amperex tubes.
> 
> Elise can drive high and low impedance headphones. Drives Beyer T1 600ohms like a charm and HE560 (32ohms and 92db) works like a treat.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you so much, I will post some more here as soon I get them , I think I should hold on to myHE-560 and see how they stuck up to HEX.
 Cheers
 On the other note I almost pick up T1 gen2....lets see how big my bonus will be after X-mas.


----------



## UntilThen

Definitely hold onto your HE560. It's tailor made for Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Thank you so much, I will post some more here as soon I get them , I think I should hold on to myHE-560 and see how they stuck up to HEX.
> Cheers
> On the other note I almost pick up T1 gen2....lets see how big my bonus will be after X-mas.


 

 Hahaha..you'll be everyone's envy. Well if you do pick up the T1 G2 as well, you'll also be the first to use it with Elise and I think that will fit like a glove.
  
 Please follow the tubes recommendation on this thread. The latest is the EL3N and H1 has given fantastic reviews of it.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Hahaha..you'll be everyone's envy. Well if you do pick up the T1 G2 as well, you'll also be the first to use it with Elise and I think that will fit like a glove.


 
 It is time to sell some Cardas Clear beyond power cables to afford  all of this ...lol


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> It is time to sell some Cardas Clear beyond power cables to afford  all of this ...lol


 

 I'm just using PC power cable and I'm on cloud 9. With Cardas I might be teleported to the outer Galaxy, so spare me the agony.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> I'm just using PC power cable and I'm on cloud 9. With Cardas I might be teleported to the outer Galaxy, so spare me the agony.


 
 I would recommend to try some PC's and one pc that I like and have it running to my dac is Zu audio Birth power cords.
 I am listening to Anne Bisson at this moment and I am in cloud 9......so NICE!!
 I could live with this set-up but I got greedy, not the best thing in some books but why not...I know I will pay the price


----------



## UntilThen

Well save some money for tubes. You'll need it. Can't buy a Ferrari without the engine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Buy a pair of GEC 6AS7G and Philips Miniwatt EL3Ns plus adapters for a start.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yes, a few of you are definitely onto something. Balanced really does sound better than SE. @hypnos1 I have a mission: recommend to the Elise creator to make a balanced version, then it can truly be a _transportation device_
  
*EDIT*: Or maybe there's an internal mod for this


----------



## UntilThen

Levi, listen to the unbalanced version. You'll be balanced naturally. You won't wish for more.
  
 B-60, thanks for Anne Bisson. I've seen her works before but haven't tried it. It's lovely on Elise and HE560. I'm on cloud 11.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Forget what I said about the Lepai $20.00, 20 watt amp!

Played fine for 2 days. Day three, turn it on, and one channel is gone.

Not worth the return shipping cost, it will adorn the bottom of my trash bin.

Sure don't get much in a $20.00 China-made mini-amp these days....UGH 

Will press an old Pioneer SX-650 back into duty (that has worked fine, since 1976 or so)....

Just needs some deoxit in the pots

http://classicreceivers.com/?s=SX-650


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Forget what I said about the Lepai $20.00, 20 watt amp!


 
 JV, I'll donate $1 to make you less sad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
@DecentLevi talk to @aqsw . He's using Elise in SE mode more than his LC in balanced mode. I wait to hear your impressions when you get Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Yes, a few of you are definitely onto something. Balanced really does sound better than SE. @hypnos1
> I have a mission: recommend to the Elise creator to make a balanced version, then it can truly be a _transportation device_
> 
> *EDIT*: Or maybe there's an internal mod for this




No internal mod will magically make it balanced. This would be quite costly, to implement correctly.

We have a Liquid Carbon / balanced user, who says he likes the sound of his single ended Elise, better.

Better talk to user: aqsw

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  just buy this Audioengine 2+ powered speakers and you'll be happy. Elise preamp out to it - perfect.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am gonna buy two ELISE ...one for each channel..  LOL
  
 okkkk my pocket is laufing at me. Gudnite guys...n get the MONK.


----------



## nojdrof

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, an RIAA cartridge preamp, then Elise and your good to go. This site has decent, inexpensive "all transistor" phono preamps:
> 
> http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750pp.html


Thanks for the information.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Anne Bisson is making me sleepy. So let's kick it up with Free !!!


----------



## DecentLevi

@aqsw I noticed from the LC thread that the Elise wins no-contest to the LC. But I would love to see you report on the LC with a *balanced *headphone connection and burned-in, versus the Elise which is SE, and see which one you still like better. If you do so, please "quote" me or mention my name with the @ symbol so I get notification. Thanks...
  
 EDIT: Oh now I see he already has balanced on the LC. Well a nice comparison of the LC balanced versus the Elise with the same headphone; volume matched would still be interesting.
  
 PS- I have no doubts about the Elise's abilities, but just waiting until I can afford it


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi ...@aqsw comments are short and sharp but humorous. This sums up his impressions...
  
 Post #4145   http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/4140#post_12163051
  
 Post #4009   http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/4005#post_12154320
  
 You can't really compared an ss amp and a tube amp. It's all personal preference. You either like one or the other.


----------



## aqsw

I will try to explain some of the differences between the LC and the Elise. These comparisons are volummatched (by ear), using the same dac (hegel d12) and same 
headphones (audeze lcd 2.2 pre fazor balanced from the LC).

The LC and the Elise both have plenty of power to drive the phones. I was worried the Eilse would be a little short in this department. Boy was I wrong.
About 12 oclock on the Elise dial (se) versus 1 oclock n the LC (balanced 1x gain). This is loud. 

The Lc is the best ss amp I have ever owned. Kills the Oppo I had and I do not regret buying it for 1 second, but it will be regulated to my office,
because it is my second best amp for my own preferences.

The Elise seems more open, spatial, 3d sound. I just love this sound, it seems more analog to me.

One place where the LC wins is in that it is pitch black. Total silence between songs. The Elise has a slight hum between songs, but when the music starts I dont hear it .

The Elise wins in looks too.

The Elise starts distorting sooner than the LC. This could be the tubes I'm using. It is at such a high volume that I would never listen at that level, but some people ??

Tube rolling is fun, being able to adjust the sound is something I have become very fond of.

Overall, I just prefer the tube sound and the Elise provides this in spades, but if you want ss, the LC would be a fantastic choice. 

I originally was planning on buying a totl Cavalli. This Elise has actually saved me money, as that urge has now passed. 
As to the balanced versus se output. I was originally quite biased on the balanced side. I love planars and felt that a balanced output would optimize my headphones performance.
This assumption was wrong, as the Elise has the power to run them easily. All my phones have balanced cables wth an xlr termination, so my pigtail is getting plenty of action.

As to balanced versus se inputs, at my age with riding motorcycles all my life, I really cannot hear or define a difference.

Back to the Elise. I better wipe the dust off the LC, I can't see the Logo anymore.


----------



## UntilThen

You always surprise me aqsw but this time you surprise me the most. You wrote a page !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A very good evaluation, short review / comparison with Liquid Carbon as well. An honest unbiased review I'd say as you paint the pros and cons of each. This will give someone contemplating buying either of those 2, a better idea what to expect. No buyer's euphoria here as you own both and have no reason to love one over the other apart for the reasons you gave. Ultimately it's the sound. Elise tube amp sound is irresistible.
  
 Good write-up. !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P/S... you should look at grounding it properly because in my unit, with 2 FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998, I have total silence between songs. Not a murmur of hum, buzz, you name it.
  
@DecentLevi  come read this.
  
 Holly Cole 'Hold On' never sounded this good right now. I'm melting.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> The Elise seems more open, spatial, 3d sound. I just love this sound, it seems more analog to me.




I think this says it all. Agree 100% that a tube amp will give you a holographic 3D sound that is "more analog" and thoroughly enjoyable. This is important, with today's digital sources.

Well said, aqwsw!!



 .


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl
> just buy this Audioengine 2+ powered speakers and you'll be happy. Elise preamp out to it - perfect.




Interesting! These speakers look like a complete clone of Paul Carmody's Overnight sensation design that I already own! I have no doubt the amp inside these, are of the same "quality" as the one I am carefully placing in the trash bin, today...

No thanks! I will use a classic amp, that I have squirreled away.



.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl  just buy this Audioengine 2+ powered speakers and you'll be happy. Elise preamp out to it - perfect.


 
 I have first gen of the 2 and this is one special speaker.


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> I have first gen of the 2 and this is one special speaker.




I am sure they sound as nice as the "Overnight Sensations", as they appear to be close cousins' 

The secret is in the crossover tech...


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> I am sure they sound as nice as the "Overnight Sensations", as they appear to be close cousins'
> 
> The secret is in the crossover tech...


 
 On this note ,they do have mid bass hump and I do compensate that in foobar by dropping 110Hz to about -8dB


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> On this note ,they do have mid bass hump and I do compensate that in foobar by dropping 110Hz to about -8dB




Good to know, B-60, thanks.

I have the classic amp powering the Overnight Sensations...

Perfection


----------



## Lord Raven

Great review aqsw, however I doubt this point. 
  
 Elise is dead silent out of the box, it still is for me. It only cause problems when I use cheap adapters from CN/HK. I wish it was built for some FDD20/EL3N or 6N7G tubes by default, otherwise there is nothing to complain about it.
  
 Quote:


aqsw said:


> One place where the LC wins is in that it is pitch black. Total silence between songs. The Elise has a slight hum between songs, but when the music starts I dont hear it .


----------



## TomNC

@aqsw
  
     Thanks for a nice overview comparison of the Elise vs LC. One note I want to add is that balanced input may be advantageous in some and only some situations. For instance, the balanced output from my Gungnir Multibit DAC is 6 dB higher than that from the SE output. This makes a difference in allowing more headroom to drive power hungry phones like the HE-6. For most other phones, I agree that both the Elise and LC should have plenty of power and individual preference should be based on sound signature.
  
     Funny that I've just ordered a pair of NOS EL3N tubes based on words I read here in this thread and I don't have a tube amp to use them. I just have a tender spot in my heart for a nice tube amp in the future. For a while, I will be listening to silent music through these tubes.


----------



## Lord Raven

I am moving into buying capacitors next after the tube rolling hopefully ends with EL3N's arrival 
  
 Please welcome, Russian 22uF 63V PETP Mylar Capacitor K73-16 NOS, I will be using them with my Focal Utopia Beryllium tweeters.


----------



## Lord Raven

tomnc said:


> @aqsw
> 
> Thanks for a nice overview comparison of the Elise vs LC. One note I want to add is that balanced input may be advantageous in some and only some situations. For instance, the balanced output from my Gungnir Multibit DAC is 6 dB higher than that from the SE output. This makes a difference in allowing more headroom to drive power hungry phones like the HE-6. For most other phones, I agree that both the Elise and LC should have plenty of power and individual preference should be based on sound signature.
> 
> Funny that I've just ordered a pair of NOS EL3N tubes based on words I read here in this thread and I don't have a tube amp to use them. I just have a tender spot in my heart for a nice tube amp in the future. For a while, I will be listening to silent music through these tubes.


 
  
 You're under the spell already  Hang in there brother, you sure would get a tube amplifier soon. Also, Elise has a lot of power, to blow one's brains out or give tinnitus, we should used it wisely. I am suffering from cold flu and fever these days and the ringing ears are back, this is just a brotherly reminder.


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Good to know, B-60, thanks.
> 
> I have the classic amp powering the Overnight Sensations...
> 
> Perfection


 
 I was looking up the speakers and I found this ,lets see if this sounds good on Overnight Sensations...lol


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Trying various ways of eliminating the ground loop.
  
 Connected the Elise to a very long extension cord to a part of my house that was added a long time after it was built ( with new wiring). No change.
  
 Spoke to an engineering friend who said that I should connect my entire system(not only the Elise) to a lifted ground, and try this with reverse polarities.
 What is a lifted ground? It is just an adapter plug that plugs into the grounded power cord, but it only has two blades, omitting the third ground lead.
  
 Tried it this way and that way. No change in the hum (which only can be heard at exaggerated listening levels).
  
*But I am not giving up....*
  
*On another note (pun intended) I paired the wonderful FDD20 with a C3g. The FDD20 has an amplification factor of 33, and the C3g has a Verstarkungsfaktor of 40, so they are pretty close. Even so, with the great precision of the Elise I can hear the difference, and even though I could leave the balance control in the middle, I chose to move it slightly towards the FDD20 to center the sound stage.*
  
*This combination blends quite well with superb bass definition, but I still notice the extra "bite' of C3g in the treble region. It is pretty magical, but the 6BL7GTA/FDD20 combination has more magic.*
  
*The BL has an amplification factor of 19, necessitating moving the balance control more to compensate for the volume of the FDD20, but it still is my most magical setup. (I know, you are not supposed to have very different driver tubes, I just don't know any better...)*
  
*Coming back to the ground loop, I am embarrassed to show a picture of my snake pit of wires on the floor in a corner of my listening room. Instead I am presenting you with a natural replica:*
  




  
 Don't worry, they are not dangerous - Garter snakes in Narcisse, Manitoba, Canada.


----------



## hypnos1

nephilim said:


> I made a small step ahead. The fdd20 became almost silent except some slight hum in the right channel, which stayed there even after swapping driver and power tubes. I could remove that hum by touching the rca sockets. Then the amp was quiet. I still have to understand why the initial louder hum disappeared after a few hours. And why the hum is louder in the right channel (same situation with c3g)... Need some sleep now.


 
  
 Sounds like you just might be getting there neph...GREAT NEWS, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....Now, with the EL3N needing no external PS and being lower gain, you could well be on your way to Heaven, mon ami!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...I do hope so....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


b-60 said:


> Thank you,
> I am getting my HEX on Wednesday, and I do have HE560 at this moment and driving them with LYR2 Amperex tubes, sound very good to my ears
> One more thing ,I am just wondering if that would be a good match, considering that they are much easier to drive, I do love tubes and tubes sound, and with the right match I will be in heaven soon
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi B-60...hope you will indeed be joining us soon - don't deprive yourself of this joy _too _long!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


decentlevi said:


> Yes, a few of you are definitely onto something. Balanced really does sound better than SE. @hypnos1 I have a mission: recommend to the Elise creator to make a balanced version, then it can truly be a _transportation device_
> 
> *EDIT*: Or maybe there's an internal mod for this


 
  
 All I can say DL is that with the sound now emanating from Elise MKI, I honestly believe the _only_ alteration needed for MKII is P8A sockets for the EL3N...not even a single resistor would appear to need changing - which is totally unbelievable, given the endless talk of correct 'operational points' required amongst DIYers (and pros!). I'm quite sure _*no-one*_ would have even dreamt of using a _pentode_ in a circuit designed around a 6SN7 wired in series, lol!  This must be one of the luckiest and most unexpected 'experiments' in a _very_ long while - which I personally rate above my good fortune in getting the C3g to work in the LittleDots, and here in the Elise - the latter with the much appreciated help from Glenn, of Glenn amps...
 And all down to UT stumbling across a Mazda EL3N and asking "What's this?", lol!...Who would ever have thought it?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(Serendipity is a truly wonderful creature...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


tomnc said:


> @aqsw
> 
> Thanks for a nice overview comparison of the Elise vs LC. One note I want to add is that balanced input may be advantageous in some and only some situations. For instance, the balanced output from my Gungnir Multibit DAC is 6 dB higher than that from the SE output. This makes a difference in allowing more headroom to drive power hungry phones like the HE-6. For most other phones, I agree that both the Elise and LC should have plenty of power and individual preference should be based on sound signature.
> 
> Funny that I've just ordered a pair of NOS EL3N tubes based on words I read here in this thread and I don't have a tube amp to use them. I just have a tender spot in my heart for a nice tube amp in the future. For a while, I will be listening to silent music through these tubes.


 
  
 Well, TomNC....looks like I've been getting carried away _far_ more than I realised about this tube, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...thankfully it is also a lovely-looking thing, so just keep staring at them and the magic that's to come will gradually burn into your mind...and will surely _force_ you into entering tubeland - just be sure Elise is at the top of your list...fed by the EL3N of course!!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> I was looking up the speakers and I found this ,lets see if this sounds good on Overnight Sensations...lol


 

 These words will be ringing in my head for years to come. I'm a bit groggy now from an overnight sensations listening to music with Elise and HE560. I dreamt I was using EL3N and mid way through the song, the tubes lift off like rockets...upwards. 
  
 Cheers to Elise. You're one day away from 1 years old.


----------



## UntilThen

*Quote from LR:- Elise is dead silent out of the box, it still is for me.*
  
 True, so silent was she that when I first power it on, my left channel was dead silent. I cringe in horror and panicked. Then I realise my left RCA plug was not fully inserted. 
  
 I never expected a tube amp to be this silent. With no music playing, I can turn the volume to maximum and get pitch black silence. This is with 12V tubes FDD20 and for that matter any tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I love Mickey


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *Quote from LR:- Elise is dead silent out of the box, it still is for me.*
> 
> True, so silent was she that when I first power it on, my left channel was dead silent. I cringe in horror and panicked. Then I realise my left RCA plug was not fully inserted.
> 
> I never expected a tube amp to be this silent. With no music playing, I can turn the volume to maximum and get pitch black silence. This is with 12V tubes FDD20 and for that matter any tubes.


 
  
 You certainly seem blessed indeed "Down Under", UT. I suspect it is just the lucky few who have no issues _whatsoever_ with noisy mains supply; interference from 'fridges, heating pumps, light dimmer switches, microwave cookers, air conditioners, TVs, wireless equipment (of _all_ sorts!)...etc. etc. (own _and_ neighbours', lol!)....to whom do you pray, btw??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 When music is playing, my own unit has deathly black silence - during gaps et al...which is sometimes a bit eerie, in fact! But wouldn't have it any other way, lol!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> You certainly seem blessed indeed "Down Under", UT. I suspect it is just the lucky few who have no issues _whatsoever_ with noisy mains supply; interference from 'fridges, heating pumps, light dimmer switches, microwave cookers, air conditioners, TVs, wireless equipment (of _all_ sorts!)...etc. etc. (own _and_ neighbours', lol!)....to whom do you pray, btw??!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm blessed indeed   My house is full of electronic gadgets. Every member of the household have their own PC. There's gadgets everywhere. When there's a power failure, it's a meltdown.
 Despite this, I'm hum free with Elise.
  
 This is the tube that started this EL3N revolution - listening to Tracy Chapman's 'Talking about a revolution' now. It's still on eBay. Someone buy it because it's $30 shipping for me. Bid starting from $1.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> This is the tube that started this EL3N revolution - listening to Tracy Chapman's 'Talking about a revolution' now. It's still on eBay. Someone buy it because it's $30 shipping for me. Bid starting from $1.


 
  
 Seems to be $30 within Europe as well.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Seems to be $30 within Europe as well.


 

 Haha Oskari. You drive to Italy and buy it. Ain't that far from Finland. Tell the seller no delivery required.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Seems to be $30 within Europe as well.


 
  
 Yo, Oskari...for *ONE* tube?...shan't be bidding on principle, methinks!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Haha Oskari. You drive to Italy and buy it. Ain't that far from Finland. Tell the seller no delivery required.


 
  
 It's 2000 km, at minimum, one-way. I don't think I will.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, Oskari...for *ONE* tube?...shan't be bidding on principle, methinks!


 
  
 Indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

I wonder if this BIG ballon EL3N is extra special?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-EL3N-Philips-BIG-balloons-NIB-Valve-tube-Rohre-nearly-matched-pair-/181941310033?hash=item2a5c8c1251:g:51MAAOSwAKxWVIZ1


----------



## UntilThen

H1, you sure we can't use the EL3N as power tubes? See this high praise remarks...
  
*Perfect pentode for use as sound output tubes. The anode dissipation is 9 Watts. As a single ended class A amplifier the EL3 will deliver 4.5 watts at 10% distortion (without feedback).*


----------



## nephilim

I know I really should wait before making big announcements but I am too excited... I feel I am closer than ever to solve the hum issue - need to test other tubes but the current combination is much quieter than yesterday - and the amp runs cooler. Now switching to the noisiest tubes I have.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> I know I really should wait before making big announcements but I am too excited... I feel I am closer than ever to solve the hum issue - need to test other tubes but the current combination is much quieter than yesterday - and the amp runs cooler. Now switching to the noisiest tubes I have.


 

 What did you do? Or didn't do?  
  
 Please tell us quick. I'm dying of anticipation.


----------



## nephilim

I remembered the LD Mk3 days when the trafo was humming... not via phones but the trafo itself. The trafo hum was so loud that I could hear within 1m distance through the phones. The reason is that the cheap trafos from the far east are made for 220V but struggle with higher voltages (up to 240V over here) and even more if the AC suffers from DC offset. Well, the latter I ruled out because of the filter I used. The way I cured the hum with the LD was to reduce voltage by means of an autotransformer. By choosing 230V on the input and 220V on the output I could reduce hum significantly. It was gone with 240V/220V.
  
 So last night I wondered if the Elise trafo could have a similar problem. First test was with the FDD20 which yesterday started with a clearly audible hum but became a bit quieter after a few hours (which is silly, as I have burnt them in for quite a while). With reduced input voltage (230/220) they are 'technically' quiet, i.e., if I want I can hear something but under normal circumstances they are quiet. Full stop. I then went on to the bad guys - the Mazda 6N7G. Inserted into the amp the hum is reduced. Using xulingmrs socket savers with external power supply the hum is destroying my ears. No jokes - my ears hurt after 10s because of the strong low frequency buzz. Maybe the tubes are bad? Or do the adapters suck? I cannot be the power supply as I am using it with the FDD20, too. Now I am listening to the C3g which did hum significantly last night. They are now almost as quiet as the FDD20 - much better than yesterday. I still can go to the 240/220 setting. Haven't tested the ECC31 but they were fine last night.
  
 So my (intermediate) conclusion is: taking the load off the trafo helps. And that might be the reason why some of you don't hear the hum. Because your local voltage might be closer to the 'ideal' 220V than in other places of the world. If you want to spent some more money, an autotransformer costs about $50. Plus $5 for the power cord. You don't even have to solder 
  
 However, this episode has left some scars. I contacted the european distributor of the microzotl2 - I will get a test unit in a few days. I was interested in this amp before and now I am curious how it compares to the Elise.
  
 Now back to something I haven't done for a while - listening to MUSIC.


----------



## UntilThen

Sorry @nephilim I am in Australia. A standard socket-outlet in Australia provides a nominal voltage of 230 volts RMS[3] at a maximum of 10 amps and always includes an earth connection.
  
I am hum free without an autotransformer which I have not heard of until now.
  
You reasoning is invalid.
  
Anyone is welcome to my home to verify my setup. I did nothing special. I made no modification to Elise or to my house power supply except 2 years ago. I had overloads then and got an electrician to redo what was necessary but that was 2 years ago.
  
@Lord Raven will be in Sydney in January. He will listen to my setup and report to you all so you don't think I'm biased which I have no reason to be. He is going to listen to every drivers I have including using all the adapters I got from Suzier, Mrs Xuling and H1 for C3G.


----------



## nephilim

untilthen said:


> Sorry @nephilim I am in Australia. A standard socket-outlet in Australia provides a nominal voltage of 230 volts RMS[3] at a maximum of 10 amps and always includes an earth connection.
> 
> I am hum free without an autotransformer which I have not heard of until now.
> 
> You reasoning is invalid.


 

 Sorry UT, but applying your logic above I have to conclude that your statement that your Elise is free of hum is invalid, too.
  
 If you read carefully what I have written in the past you would understand that it cannot be a ground loop (it hums w/o anything connected except the cans) and it cannot be a ground issue (as my electric installation is grounded and the heating pipe does not cure it) and it cannot even be my house (because it hums elsewhere, too). To me it comes down to a weak trafo (hum is reduced by reducing input voltage) or an internal ground loop. If you don not hear hum with your amp tean I wholeheartedly feel happy for you. But please acknowledge the fact that others do hear hum, too. And please do not tell others who invest time and money to make the amp a bit better that their findings are wrong. If you want to prove my reasoning invalid you are invited to come over and hear the hum before and after using the transformer. I will pay for the beer.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

Can you tell me why my unit is hum free then? If you think Elise transformer is weak.
  
 I'm not the only one with a hum free unit. I've not heard from H1 or JV that they have constant hum problems with Elise. I'm sure there are others too.
  
 Like I say, if you have a product defect, take it up with the manufacturer. There can be defects from any manufacturers. There's no such things as 100% pass rate. I'm not even speculating on whether your unit has a problem but be fair to the manufacturer. They need to be given a chance to check it.
  
 I'm sure Feliks Audio will give you a brand new replacement too if it's found to be defective and cannot be rectified.


----------



## nephilim

Because your nominal (average) voltage is 230V, but within a certain tolerance voltage can be higher or lower. The tolerance can be different depending on where you live. Apart from that, manufacturing tolerances of the trafo could be an explanation.
  
 If you allow me to make use of an example: 
  
 A: "I am healthy"
 B: "Great! I am suffering from a disease'
 A: '"I am sorry - but I am fine. All the best"
 (some time later)
 B: "I am feeling better, I found medicine which helps me"
 A: "That cannot be. I am fine and we are both humans. And I have not even heard of this medicine. It cannot be that you are feeling better and the medicine helps you"
  
 Sorry for the silly analogy.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and I can understand the frustrations. What I don't understand is why did you prolong it? It's been how long? 6 to 9 months? 
  
 If it was me, I would have been dead after 3 months. You're obviously entitled to what you want to do next. Buy another amp, return Elise. It's your call but there has to be fairness in this world. Manufacturers need to be engaged if there's a problem so they can rectify it. That's what warranties are for.


----------



## nephilim

Exactly, and that is the reason it went to Poland for a month. They told me they fixed the issue (cleaned the driver) and that it was free of hum now. I replied that the hum occurs with different drivers. The answer was that after reading my comment they found a loose resistor and that it is now absolutely free of hum. They also implicitly said they could do nothing else to improve the situation. Well, you know the customer's impression when it came back. 
  
 If you want to stay in my shoes for a second (quite a smelly place!) - imagine you get your amp back, the manufacturer tells you everything is perfect but you might have a sensitive hearing (that is what they said), and all the other owners on the forum tell you their amp's noise floor is blacker than a moonless night. If you are not fully ignorant (and like the sound of the amp) you try to find the reason for the hum. That is what I did in the past days (and I realize that it must be frustrating when somebody is constantly trying to spoil that beautiful amp while you are in sonic heaven). I am really relieved that in the meantime people are reporting that there is indeed some hum. It might be due to a bunch of wires, WLAN routers/fridges/hairdryers but I tried to rule all that out. I was able to reduce the noise level. I will check a different amp and -in case it outperforms #11- contact Lukasz again or sell it. 
  
 Enough said!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm really sorry nephilim you are face with this problem. No one should go through such an experience. Never for a moment did I think you're spoiling our sonic heaven. I'm not that selfish. I was more concern for a fellow Elise owner with a problem. That is why I offered to speak to Lukasz on your behalf. However as you said, enough said. I shall hold my peace.
  
 It's 1st anniversary for Elise tomorrow.


----------



## mordy

Since I do have hum, but have managed to "tame it" and live with it, I do know that it can happen that the Elise hums. Whatever method reduces the hum is welcome. And I don't think that my amp is defective at all - it is something in my house that causes it.
  
 There are lots of things I do not understand. As an example, when I turn up the volume on the Elise, the hum increases continuously, but when the volume control is almost at the max, it decreases. Why?
  
 My engineering friend told me that different countries use different methods of grounding their electric grids (I had mentioned to him about Denmark, where it seems that three prong grounded plugs are not used).
  
 I have seen on some threads that people get upset when somebody does something or says something that doesn't make sense to one of the parties. If I would stand up and say that I have excellent results using two completely different driver tubes (1.5A 6.3V and 0.9A 12V), I'll be booed out from certain forums. It may not make sense, but it works, at least for me. Whatever floats your boat....
  
 Please, tolerance. - if there is constant hum, it can make somebody very frustrated and irritated......
  
  
 On a different note, I received a pair of EL3N tubes today - from Holland, and made in Holland. The date code is MS12/A4B - what does that mean? (Can't remember which post attempted to decipher it.)
  
 The boxes look too new and pristine to be from the 30'-40's. Inside the flap of the boxes is printed 3322  200  29651. Scrolled through hundreds of pictures of tube boxes to try to find the same look box with dates of the tubes packaged inside. My best estimate is that the boxes are from the 60's and 70's with these logos. On the other hand, it may make sense that the tubes were made earlier, and packaged in newer boxes - not unusual.
  
 Did I hear June 29, 1951?
  
 UT - when do you expect the EL3N adapters?


----------



## UntilThen

No idea. Looks like after Christmas or the New Year at this rate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Tracking says the adapters left Hong Kong on the 19th. EL3N tracking does not even say it has reached Australia.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Neph...

I am glad you found some relief from the incessant hum you have in your amp. 

My transformer physically makes a pretty good hum. It's not heard in the headphones or preamp out, but I can certainly hear it when I am physically within a few feet of the amp when it's on. Have had others in the house say "what's that?" when I turn it, on and am waiting for warm up.

If your solution of reducing the inbound voltage works, then I am all for it. Hope it does tame it to the point where you can enjoy the amp and enjoy music. 

I also find it frustrating that Feliks did not actually find and fix this hum.

I do feel like you have worked hard at curing the problem and certainly understand the many possible causes and have worked your way through them, systematically. Glad you found something that helped.

Looking forward to your reports in the near future, to see if you can call it good, and enjoy the amp.

You have been patient and fair regarding this problem, in my book.

Here is to hoping we have crossed a "quiet" threshold.


 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Otis Taylor (Blues artist) is on the playlist this evening:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igi-4xDgXFA[/VIDEO]


----------



## B-60

nephilim said:


> Exactly, and that is the reason it went to Poland for a month. They told me they fixed the issue (cleaned the driver) and that it was free of hum now. I replied that the hum occurs with different drivers. The answer was that after reading my comment they found a loose resistor and that it is now absolutely free of hum. They also implicitly said they could do nothing else to improve the situation. Well, you know the customer's impression when it came back.
> 
> If you want to stay in my shoes for a second (quite a smelly place!) - imagine you get your amp back, the manufacturer tells you everything is perfect but you might have a sensitive hearing (that is what they said), and all the other owners on the forum tell you their amp's noise floor is blacker than a moonless night. If you are not fully ignorant (and like the sound of the amp) you try to find the reason for the hum. That is what I did in the past days (and I realize that it must be frustrating when somebody is constantly trying to spoil that beautiful amp while you are in sonic heaven). I am really relieved that in the meantime people are reporting that there is indeed some hum. It might be due to a bunch of wires, WLAN routers/fridges/hairdryers but I tried to rule all that out. I was able to reduce the noise level. I will check a different amp and -in case it outperforms #11- contact Lukasz again or sell it.
> 
> Enough said!


 
 Hi there,
 If there is a problem with your power lines or any other interference from you power outlets i have solve this problem with foundation research LC power cords long time ago.
 On that note ,if you have ground loop this filter will not solve the problem.
 Cheers
 J


----------



## DecentLevi

@nephilim here are a couple possible solutions for your humming sound from the Elise.
  
 Try the amp from another building (friend's, work, etc.) to see if the hum is better. If it is, then you may need to rethink your home wiring somehow, or consider the likes of power conditioning or a linear power supply.
  
 Try tubes in the amp that you know are silent, or try every combination of tubes in order to determine which ones, if any may be the cause of hum.
  
 More times than not with tube amps, the hum is from the tubes themself.


----------



## UntilThen

Maybe this might help.
  
 http://www.cognitivevent.com/av_hum.html


----------



## UntilThen

Well EL3Ns have landed in Australia since 5am today. Let's hope I get it tomorrow but I still have no idea when the adapters are coming. If both items comes tomorrow then you can envy me @Lord Raven. BUT don't envy me if the adapters don't work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 We're having a party here tomorrow guys. It's Elise's birthday.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Well EL3Ns have landed in Australia since 5am today. Let's hope I get it tomorrow but I still have no idea when the adapters are coming. If both items comes tomorrow then you can envy me @Lord Raven. BUT don't envy me if the adapters don't work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Bro, I hope you get lucky  I will hear it first hand at your place and get lucky either hehe
  
 Mine just left the NL soil, and the adapters just left "Guangzhou Terminal" LOL don't know what that means.... Party on, I cannot believe my amplifier is one year old already 
  
 Nephilim, may I suggest to use the default power and stock tubes sent by Feliks Audio? If there still is hum or noise in your setup then you should be worried, in my case stock tubes are dead quiet so I am sure the adaptation is doing something wrong in my setup, therefore I went back to stock driver tubes and better power tubes cause only driver tubes are doing me wrong. I do remember that you confirmed that stock tubes are much much quieter after the fix, there could be a possibility that Feliks Audio tested your amp and they got even better results within their premise. You could be living next a radio base station of a telecom operator, or a national grid (overhead or buried under). I live in 35-50C condition all around year, there are thousands of air conditioners around me, their compressors turn on and off randomly and I do notice the dimming or lights in my room when my AC switches on, so in my case there are a lot of noise but I am still surprised that the default tubes are dead quiet but when I plug in FDD20, they pick every single noise around the area  LOL
  
 I do have faint hum (with a pair of FDD20), which goes away when I touch the negative of RCA, that means there could be a grounding issue for my case. The EMI, RFI, and improper building grounding is not an issue for me.
  
 Hum should not be an issue for many of it goes away when the music starts, it is an issue when your amplifier is working to amplify hum and music at the same time, only they we should be worried cause it is working extra and getting heat up.
  
 I hope we all find cure to our humming problems, cheers to all the lucky ones.. hehe!


----------



## nephilim

@UntilThen 
  
 I received a mail from Lukasz today. He said another customer has contacted them. You have offered twice to mail them to "help me" and I have replied that I will sort this out and I do not need somebody else to negotiate for me.
  
In case you (or anybody else) did e-mail them, I would again(!) like to kindly ask you to stop this as -strictly speaking- this is none of your business. Apologies for the harsh words but I am really annoyed.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> I received a mail from Lukasz today. He said another customer has contacted them. You have offered twice to mail them to "help me" and I have replied that I will sort this out and I do not need somebody else to negotiate for me.
> 
> In case you (or anybody else) did e-mail them, I would again(!) like to kindly ask you to stop this as -strictly speaking- this is none of your business. Apologies for the harsh words but I am really annoyed.


 

 I demand an apology for this outrageous accusation. You're out of line now.


----------



## nephilim

Please read again. "In case you (or anybody else)..."
  
 If you did not write that mail, you can ignore the rest of the sentence.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim said:


> Please read again. "In case you (or anybody else)..."
> 
> If you did not write that mail, you can ignore the rest of the sentence.


 

 That is implying big time that I did. You have no right to do that. Do you think I would meddle with your affairs after your outburst? Would you like to be accuse in a public forum?
  
 And who do you think you are to make such a threat here?


----------



## nephilim

Well, it is a fact that you offered to contact Feliks Audio twice - nobody else did that. That puts you sort of in a pole position. But as I cannot be sure I spoke to the others, too. Btw, apologies for everybody else (except the sender of that mail) were already included.
  
 I guess this leads to nothing. I will close this browser tab for a few weeks until I have found a solution with Lukasz. 
  
 Enjoy the Christmas holidays.


----------



## Lord Raven

Brothers, we are here to help each other out, please calm down. Even if someone did write to Feliks to ask about your or his issues, that is personal, if Lukasz is giving hints then it should not be taken as offensive, maybe he is confusing you with someone else. I did write to Lukasz asking to help several people struggling with their orders and he helped them, otherwise he was too busy to check his email (maybe their message went into junk folder but mine went through). 
  
 Why create bad air between members or on the thread? We are only 20 or so people and the amplifier is fairly young. I am on the Light Harmonics Labs thread and that is a big company in California, half of the thread member are not happy with the company mainly cause their unit is not delivered (even after year when the order was booked) or not working properly, they open trouble tickets and ask each other for help.


----------



## UntilThen

So you're going to walk away now after accusing me without an apology? 
  
 I'm a man of my words. If I did something I will not hesitate to own up but how dare you accuse me 3 times...the last saying I'm on pole position.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi H1, I'm leaving this thread after I'm done with EL3N and adapters evaluation. I see no point in staying on, not least after being accused of something I didn't do and an apology not forth coming.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Geeezzzzz....lets take a christmas breakkk..ev3rybody chillss, it is jus a hobby.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys...it's Christmas - the most stressful time of the year, lol!
  
 But notwithstanding, let's have the Christmas spirit prevail, and help smooth over troubled waters. @Lorspeaker is right...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It is my sincerest hope @UntilThen that you don't deprive us all of the invaluable contribution you make to this thread...and I'm sure my sentiments are echoed by all here. You have already been of great help to many - and all the more remarkable given the relatively short time you have been with us. And I know you would continue to be a much appreciated member of our family.
  
 So I hope you will be informing (and entertaining!) us _long_ after the EL3N project, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My deepest Christmas wishes to you all, and......HAPPY LISTENING!...............CHEERS


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys...it's Christmas - the most stressful time of the year, lol!
> 
> But notwithstanding, let's have the Christmas spirit prevail, and help smooth over troubled waters. @Lorspeaker is right...
> 
> ...


 
 Well Said H1,
  
 I hope you reconsider UT.
  
 I ordered my dac yesterday. He is going to build it with a black faceplate and black aluminum chassis. No lettering on the face, to match the Elise.


----------



## Suuup

Surely this is all just a big misunderstanding. I'm sure Neph didn't mean anything personal. This seems to be a case of something being lost when writing instead of talking.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Well Said H1,
> 
> I hope you reconsider UT.
> 
> I ordered my dac yesterday. He is going to build it with a black faceplate and black aluminum chassis. No lettering on the face, to match the Elise.


 
  
 Elise with a partner...that's gonna look _real_ cool, aqsw!...can't wait to see the final result...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> No idea. Looks like after Christmas or the New Year at this rate.   Tracking says the adapters left Hong Kong on the 19th. EL3N tracking does not even say it has reached Australia.




Sympathies, UT!

Last tracking quote I have for EL3N was on Dec 16th, saying "origin was preparing shipment". Nothing showing after that.

I did go ahead and order the adapters too...and they say they are still in China, after a number of days.

So patience is the *key*, it seems, to enjoying EL3N's. C'mon, Santa Claus 




.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Sympathies, UT!
> 
> Last tracking quote I have for EL3N was on Dec 16th, saying "origin was preparing shipment". Nothing showing after that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perhaps SC will give his reindeer something 'special' to drink, JV....a turbo boost would be most welcome, I suspect, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I'm getting _real_ impatient here for you guys!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Now you've mentioned _that_ tube, it looks like it comes in a variety of bottle flavours...here's just three of them!       :
  

  
 From left to right...Valvo (Philips) EL3N; Philips 'Red Series' from 'Peter'; 'Radio RTS Transco' EL3N.
 Not sure if the Valvo is what's termed the 'Big Bottle'...certainly the biggest here!
  
 But they all look lovely - and far more promising than the Tungsram 'EL3' I touched on recently, lol....Plus, I'm fairly sure the 'paddle' contacts are nickel-coated brass or copper, which is nice...
 Hope to get the RTS adapted tomorrow, and have _some_ idea of its performance by Christmas Day...although these tubes benefit greatly from 40+ hrs' burn-in...
  
 Will keep y'all posted...


----------



## aqsw

Just bought myself a headphone stand for xmas. $109.00 cdn
It's a big glass skull and I get to drink the Vodka thats in it!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Just bought myself a headphone stand for xmas. $109.00 cdn
> It's a big glass skull and I get to drink the Vodka thats in it!




LOL!! Nice!

Merry Christmas, aqsw 

.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Just bought myself a headphone stand for xmas. $109.00 cdn
> It's a big glass skull and I get to drink the Vodka thats in it!


 

 Nice Christmas present for yourself 
  
 2 boxes came today but they are both from Holland. So not much of a chance for the adapters today unless Mrs XuLing is from Holland.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL!! Nice!
> 
> Merry Christmas, aqsw
> 
> .





1.75 litres. Might take me a couple days.?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Nice Christmas present for yourself
> 
> 2 boxes came today but they are both from Holland. So not much of a chance for the adapters today unless Mrs XuLing is from Holland.




Look at that cute doggie!

Lucky you! EL3N in da house?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Look at that cute doggie!
> 
> Lucky you! EL3N in da house?


 

 Thanks. Finn's the Boss pet so I have to treat him good, like let him use my headphone. Guess his favourite song? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These tubes are just so beautiful and new in the flesh. It's unbelievable. Those of you who bought it without the amp yet, they are just lovely as decorations.
  
 All have MS12 and A4A, A4B, A4B, A3L. Which leads to to think that the 12 has nothing to do with dates. It's the 3 digit codes that relate to factory symbol, year and month...I think ?
  
 Anyway with tubes so beautiful why worry about the dates. The pins look like titanium. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2 more to come.


----------



## UntilThen

*Cheers to us it's been one good year.*


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Anyway with tubes so beautiful why worry about the dates. The pins look like titanium.




Beautiful...!!!

C'mon adapters!


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> *Cheers to us it's been one good year.*




I feel we are all pretty lucky. Thank you to H1 and of course Lucasz and his Dad. Can you imagine another company even surviving making about fifty amps a year.


----------



## UntilThen

Had a bit of a scare this morning when using 2 FDD20 with 5998. The left channel hum when I started using it. Having experience this before, I tried to gently move the left tube for a better contact with the adapter but to no avail. I switch the drivers around and now the hum goes to the right. Tried moving the right tube and again cannot remove the hum.
  
 I touch the right adapter and the hum becomes louder. I touch the RCA socket on Elise and the hum goes away. Now I was getting worried. So I tried moving the right tube and this time the hum went away completely. Happiness and I continue listening to music. 2 minutes later the hum return again and try as I would to move the tube, the hum remains. Bad contact is the problem.
  
 To prove that, I pull out my other pair of FDD20 which are the RVC brand and with grey paint. The ones I'm talking about above are the Philip Miniwatt 1942. The RVC are newer tubes it seems and the paddles look good and longer. I snap them into the adapters. Power it on and no hum. No wiggling necessary. Perfect contact.
  
 So there's nothing wrong with my adapters. The problem is with the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 (one of them - the shorter one) paddle. I notice they are shorter when compared with the RVC ones. Tubes are ok but the contact is not good and thus I have the intermittent hum.
  
 If we did what H1 did, that is craft the tube with the adapter making it non removable then I believe this problem of mine will go away.
  
 With EL3N, if you bought the new tubes, the paddles look good and long so I don't think we will have this issue but we shall see. I'm quite confident we'll be ok unless you bought an old tube with worn out paddles.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> So there's nothing wrong with my adapters. The problem is with the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 (one of them - the shorter one) paddle. I notice they are shorter when compared with the RVC ones. Tubes are ok but the contact is not good and thus I have the intermittent hum.




Did you buff the outer edges of the paddles with a fingernail file?

That may cure...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Did you buff the outer edges of the paddles with a fingernail file?
> 
> That may cure...


 

 Yes I did buff it real good. On top of that use Deoxit too. It's not touching on all the paddles with the plates that's the problem. I buff it till I see brass. Now be careful there, you might make it even shorter and then your contact's really gone...unless you can pry the spring clips out again from the adapter.
  
 On the RVC FDD20, I didn't even need to buff it. It's in black paint but when I insert it into the adapter, the paint gets remove by the friction and contact is spot on.
  
 Unfortunately my replacement Philips Miniwatt FDD20 has the same problem but I will leave it and not bother Giannoni again. Maybe send one to H1 for him to use as he can bot on to the adapter but I doubt he's even thinking about FDD20 now.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

> I hope you reconsider UT.
> 
> I ordered my dac yesterday. He is going to build it with a black faceplate and black aluminum chassis. No lettering on the face, to match the Elise.




I have a bifrost that will be driving my Elise when she arrives. I may have to find a way to paint it to match Elise. 

UT: your contribution to this thread has been immense. Neph is annoyed at having to deal with things he didn't ask for. He lashed out incorrectly in this case. I would hate to see you go. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

untilthen said:


> With EL3N, if you bought the new tubes, the paddles look good and long so I don't think we will have this issue but we shall see. I'm quite confident we'll be ok unless you bought an old tube with worn out paddles.





Are you guys cleaning your contacts before you use your tubes?

DeOxit?
Steel wool?
Dremel?
Sand Paper?

I was planning to do DeOxit followed with either a razor or Dremel cone


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> I have a bifrost that will be driving my Elise when she arrives. I may have to find a way to paint it to match Elise.
> 
> UT: your contribution to this thread has been immense. Neph is annoyed at having to deal with things he didn't ask for. He lashed out incorrectly in this case. I would hate to see you go. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts.


 

 Schitt will kill you if you paint your Bifrost black. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PA, it's Christmas Eve, I've forgotten all about yesterday. A lot of kinds words have been said to me on this thread and in private message. I cannot let everyone down so I'm staying but after the New Year I'm scaling back on my posts for sure. Real life beckons.
  
 We have a good group now. I will never and cannot take credit for any of this. Too many beautiful people contributing immensely, especially H1 and JV. I should remember Mordy, Suuup and now aqsw too. Ah yes Raven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I forgot any names my humblest apologies.
  
 I like to see new Elise owners step up and give their impressions whether it's appreciations or depreciations if that's the correct word lol. It's a community thread and everyone is encourage to share their new found joy and experience.
  
 Yes I do clean all my tubes with Deoxit Red and Gold. Sometimes I nail file it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes I did buff it real good. On top of that use Deoxit too. It's not touching on all the paddles with the plates that's the problem. I buff it till I see brass. Now be careful there, you might make it even shorter and then your contact's really gone...unless you can pry the spring clips out again from the adapter.




Easy cure...place a bit of twisted bare copper wire between the shorted paddle as it goes in. Short enough to not be seen...?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Easy cure...place a bit of twisted bare copper wire between the shorted paddle as it goes in. Short enough to not be seen...?


 

 You're a genius. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Problem is I think there are a few short paddles. I hope the wires don't cross or it's fireworks. Maybe flat strip of copper?


----------



## Suuup

If you like classical music, make sure not to miss Adam Gyorgy. He's a world class pianist. His interpretation of Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 fantastic - my favorite even. The way his hands moves over the piano is incredible. His smile and genuine enjoyment from playing the piano makes me happy. 

 You may recognize him from my earlier profile picture. 
  
 As a bonus, this recording is actually really good. Not as in high resolution or anything, but the actual sound and timbre of the piano. It is astoundingly difficult to record a piano well. Such a simple yet complex instrument.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I just got my two EL3N's. They were lovingly wrapped with such care, in the most immaculate, thorough packaging I have ever seen for a tube. These babies came out from multi-decade hibernation, only to rise up in pristine condition. They look and even smell fresh, and are beautiful after all these years. I haven't been able to get an Elise yet but I'll tell you tubes with this kind of karma - these seem *destined *to sound great! So this is my red little Christmas present 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

 EDIT: equally impressive is the fact that these tubes seem to have been shipped from their original country of manufacture!


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Well I just got my two EL3N's. They were lovingly wrapped with such care, in the most immaculate, thorough packaging I have ever seen for a tube. These babies came out from multi-decade hibernation, only to rise up in pristine condition. They look and even smell fresh, and are beautiful after all these years. I haven't been able to get an Elise yet but I'll tell you tubes with this kind of karma - these seem *destined *to sound great! So this is my red little Christmas present


 
 DL, when will you order the Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Well I just got my two EL3N's. They were lovingly wrapped with such care, in the most immaculate, thorough packaging I have ever seen for a tube. These babies came out from multi-decade hibernation, only to rise up in pristine condition. They look and even smell fresh, and are beautiful after all these years. I haven't been able to get an Elise yet but I'll tell you tubes with this kind of karma - these seem *destined *to sound great! So this is my red little Christmas present


 

 Make sure you hang it up on the Christmas tree. It only left the production line a month ago that's why it's new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The letterings comes off easily though so take care don't run your fingers over it.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well, when I get the Elise depends on future income prospects - of which are currently state subsidized so I won't feel good buying it now


----------



## UntilThen

Having gotten used to Tung Sol 5998, when I switch my power tubes to Chatham 6520, I find the bass not as fulfilling with 2 FDD20. So I swap to 2031 and bingo, bass is amply compensated again. This is with HE560.
  
 On Christmas Eve, my tubes are 2031 with Chatham 6520. I can assure you this is a glorious sounding combo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's still Christmas Eve Eve here...

But, Merry Christmas to you folks Down Under...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> It's still Christmas Eve Eve here...
> 
> But, Merry Christmas to you folks Down Under...


 

 Haha .. true we're ahead of you but it's only 3:32pm on the 24th now. Many more hours to go before Christmas Day. The shops are jam packed this morning as everyone dash for last minute shopping for gifts. It's the same every year.
  
 I'm just chilling the afternoon away listening to Willie Nelson...good old Willie !!! 
 Willie duet with Norah Jones...beautiful.
  
 Well Elise is supposed to be my Christmas present. I've burn it in nicely for 2 months just in time for Christmas.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I love Willie Nelson, have a few albums by him that I never tire of...his "Stardust", "Always On My Mind" and "Countryman" are standouts. He has a massive catalog going back to the 60's. 

Hear ya on last minute Christmas. People love to procrastinate. 

Elise for Christmas....Ha. 

Hear ya


----------



## UntilThen

Some of us must have grown up together, particularly you and me JV. We seem to like the same songs, artists, genre, etc. Even aqsw likes Leonard Cohen. Wait he loves Leonard. Suuup loves many genre including Dai-Di-Luh ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes Elise for Christmas. Should I wrap it up?


----------



## UntilThen

I did not know this until now...
  
*Beatles stream music catalogue via Tidal, Spotify, Apple Music for the first time*


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Some of us must have grown up together, particularly you and me JV. We seem to like the same songs, artists, genre, etc. Even aqsw likes Leonard Cohen. Wait he loves Leonard. Suuup loves many genre including Dai-Di-Luh ?
> 
> Yes Elise for Christmas. Should I wrap it up?




Yes, we do agree an a lot.

I completely miss the appeal of Leonard Cohen, however. If my dog sang like he does...I'd have to "take him out behind the barn" ......... ha ha 

Also, I don't mention most of what I covet the most, musically, because I know there are no aficionados, here. 

I have buds on Steve Hoffman forums who do "fully understand", however. Not a surprise.

Also Wonder if Suuup is familiar with Carla Bley? Try her album called "Sextet", Suuup....the piano on the song: "Lawns" is THE absolute perfection of perfection.

Cheers, all


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, we do agree an a lot.
> 
> I completely miss the appeal of Leonard Cohen, however. If my dog sang like he does...I'd have to "take him out behind the barn" ......... ha ha
> 
> ...


 
 I'm visiting my mother for Christmas. Will definitely listen to it when I get back home to my beloved Elise - this time with a pair of Beyerdynamic 1770's!
  
 Steve Hoffman - isn't he the one who re-masters a lot of music?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm visiting my mother for Christmas. Will definitely listen to it when I get back home to my beloved Elise - this time with a pair of Beyerdynamic 1770's!


 
 Ooooo Beyer 1770....Brilliant highs and a warm bass give you a perfect sound profile unmatched by any other headphones of their kind. Envious !!!
  
 So it's predecessor is the DT 770 Pro ...didn't know that. I love the DT880. Why didn't they upgrade that instead.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I'm visiting my mother for Christmas. Will definitely listen to it when I get back home to my beloved Elise - this time with a pair of Beyerdynamic 1770's!
> 
> Steve Hoffman - isn't he the one who re-masters a lot of music?




Tell Mom I said hello!!

Affirmative on the CD Remaster guy, he has a large forum that discusses music. 

Cheers and congrats on 1770 Beyers!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Thanks. Finn's the Boss pet so I have to treat him good, like let him use my headphone. Guess his favourite song?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 First UT....thanks for cheering me up by reconsidering your position  -  I can now enjoy Christmas once again, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But now I have to tell you off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...If I hear of _anyone_ hanging one of these beauties from a Christmas tree, it will be far more than Scrooge's three Christmas Spirits come visiting...they will be _far _worse demons, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so...MERRY CHRISTMAS!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Re. the FDD20 contacts...yes, the spring receptors in the adapter may well benefit from prying out a bit more, or JV's suggestion of using a bit of additional wire should indeed do the trick...but as you say, care needs to be taken that the wire doesn't move _sideways_ !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 So, mon ami...you like the extra bass provided by the ECC31 in the 2031 combo? Boy are you in for the surprise/shock of your entire life when those EL3N adapters arrive - I know I've already commented on this tube's bass and mids, but with even more hours on mine I can confirm that the EL3N's are _vastly_ superior to the mighty ECC31 - in _all_ areas (extension; range; detail/definition; impact; speed; control, etc. etc.)...in the Elise, and _in my setup..._








. And on this note, I must add that if the Beyer T1 GEN2 has been tweaked to 'enhance' the bass and/or 'tame' the treble in any way, I'm afraid that with the Elise + EL3N I personally *would probably not touch them!*. I suspect - although I could be wrong, of course! - that the lower frequencies may well dominate rather too much..._*in this case!*_  I would _*not*_ want any change from my current bass/treble balance *whatsoever*. Especially as the originals could well be in line for some very good discounts, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so, just food for thought perhaps?...
  


decentlevi said:


> Well I just got my two EL3N's. They were lovingly wrapped with such care, in the most immaculate, thorough packaging I have ever seen for a tube. These babies came out from multi-decade hibernation, only to rise up in pristine condition. They look and even smell fresh, and are beautiful after all these years. I haven't been able to get an Elise yet but I'll tell you tubes with this kind of karma - these seem *destined *to sound great! So this is my red little Christmas present
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo DL...exactly my sentiments with the very first tube I received...somehow I just _*knew*_ we were on to a winner, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and the more I look at them - and _listen_ to them! - the more in love I fall...I am lost forever, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...THANKS UT!.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...MERRY CHRISTMAS once more, to ALL Elise fans....nay, _all_ at head-fi...CHEERS!!


----------



## MIKELAP

Just want to wish you guys a Merry Christmas ,Happy Hollidays and a Happy New Year .And may all your tubes be good ones lol. Michel.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I did not know this until now...
> 
> *Beatles stream music catalogue via Tidal, Spotify, Apple Music for the first time*




Yes, just announced yesterday. 

Have almost the entire catalog on Vinyl 

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mikelap said:


> Just want to wish you guys a Merry Christmas ,Happy Hollidays and a Happy New Year .And may all your tubes be good ones lol. Michel.




Merry Christmas back your way, Michel...

Love the picture!!!


----------



## aqsw

Got mrsx ecc31 adapters today. Going totry out some Mazda combos this weekend.


----------



## Lord Raven

FINALLY  I found a 12V 3A grounded power supply that is laptop looking, hopefully it'll fix my faint hum issues. 

Happy Christmas to all of you guys, I'll surprise myself tonight. 

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Well I woke up on Christmas Day morning. First thing I did was power on Elise, strap on my HE560 and reflect on a year gone by.
  
 It's been a beautiful year. To all my new found friends here and all readers of this thread, I wish you a Merry Christmas 2015.
  
 ...yeah, yeah JV, I know it's still Christmas Eve for you and many others. Hurry up will ya.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> Just want to wish you guys a Merry Christmas ,Happy Hollidays and a Happy New Year .And may all your tubes be good ones lol. Michel.


 
 Thank you @Mikelap for stopping by with your Christmas greetings. We do miss you. Or at least I miss your message,
  


 I wish you a very Merry Christmas and a soon Happy New Year too.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> First UT....thanks for cheering me up by reconsidering your position  -  I can now enjoy Christmas once again, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow H1, what a way to bring in the Christmas cheer. Thanks my friend, the year would not have been the same without you. We would not have Elise and all the wonderful tubes you introduce us to.
 C3G, ECC31, FDD20, 2031 and now EL3N. I cannot thank you enough. Thank you anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I too feel that with my HE560, I do not need to crave for more bass especially with 2031 / Chatham 6AS7G or FDD20 / 5998. You bring us the best news with the year coming to an end with your findings on EL3N. It's the most anticipated item for many now. I can't believe I have 4 EL3Ns here but no adapters to play with them. Never has the anguish been so great.
  
 Thank you H1. We all love you. !!!


----------



## hypnos1

And a Merry Christmas to you too @MIKELAP...love the pic, too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Now then guys, is this sad or what?....here we are, Christmas Eve, and I'm posting update on the 'Radio RTS Transco' EL3N.... Further confirmation (as if it were necessary!) of this hobby's addictive madness - or is it simply mad _*me*_, lol?!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ah well, I did after all say I would be hoping to have some idea by tomorrow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Luckily, being a 'used' tube - even though it measures (and looks!) like new - it has sprung from its chocks better than Carl Lewis, and I'm glad to report that it sounds every bit as good as its 'Red bauble' partner...which actually is a minor miracle, because I thought I'd wrecked it big time when the tube's pin solder bubbled like crazy while soldering on the wires!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Either they used _extremely_ low melting point solder, or the 'paddles' are amazingly efficient conductors...from the (impressive) look of the metal used, I rather suspect the latter!!
  
 Whatever, it is nice to know that even those tubes without the red band display the same incredible sound qualities...which hopefully bodes well for those who may be searching for these EL3Ns in the future - NOS _or_ used...
  
 ps.  With no silvering inside the top of this tube, I've been able to see the internal construction more clearly...and the single anode plate is one _massive_ oval cylinder - very impressive-looking, to be sure lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway folks, suppose I'd better get back to some kind of home life...it is Christmas after all!!....CHEERS!!!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Got mrsx ecc31 adapters today. Going totry out some Mazda combos this weekend.


 
 How can you wait for the weekend aqsw !!! Plug it in now ! 
 You also need to paint the skull black to match. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lord raven said:


> FINALLY
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mate best of luck. I need to see your smile on a totally silent FDD20..in between music I mean. Elise is frighteningly amazing in the sound she produce with 2031 and Chatham 6AS7G. It is a 'right' tone. Spot on. It would be with your HD600.


----------



## aqsw

My Ether Cs arrivedwith 4 el3ns and two ecc31, and 2 fdd20 adaptors.

Now the bad news

The bad news is my Elise is getting terrible distortion after 11 oclock. Even tried the stock tubes. To make matters even worse, the headphone jack is broken. If I plug the headphone in I only get sound from the right ear. If I unplug it half way I get sound in the left ear. No sound from both ears. Tried three diffrent phones with two different cables. Any advice before I try and contact Lucasz.

Looks like the LC is going to get some time now.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw check that your RCA interconnects are fully plug into Elise. From my experience, a loose RCA contact will make me lose the channel sound or if it contacts a little, it will hum.
  
 If you attach a ground wire to the RCA post, that extra wire can make it tricky to make the RCA contact fully. However you're saying with the stock tube you're having this problem.  Just make sure the RCA plugs are fully pushed in.
  
 You mean the LCD2.2 headphone jack broken?


----------



## hypnos1

And thank _you_ too, @UntilThen...it certainly has been one heck of a  year, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



















...but most of all...*GREAT**!!*...with the help of all of you guys...
  
 Best wishes,
  
 BFN
 CJ


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> aqsw check that your RCA interconnects are fully plug into Elise. From my experience, a loose RCA contact will make me lose the channel sound or if it contacts a little, it will hum.
> 
> If you attach a ground wire to the RCA post, that extra wire can make it tricky to make the RCA contact fully. However you're saying with the stock tube you're having this problem.  Just make sure the RCA plugs are fully pushed in.




You are the man UT. Thank you very much. Now I don't have to powerthat LC on anymore!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> You are the man UT. Thank you very much. Now I don't have to powerthat LC on anymore!


 

 OMG now I feel so useful now. You make my day aqsw. Love you big time my friend. 
  
 Now post some impressions of the Ether 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you receive my 2 FDD20?


----------



## tjw321

I'm just about to go and fall asleep listening to some Christmas tunes from my Elise. Before I do - Happy Holidays to all on my favourite Head-fi thread.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> OMG now I feel so useful now. You make my day aqsw. Love you big time my friend.
> 
> Now post some impressions of the Ether   Did you receive my 2 FDD20?




Yes I did, but I just got the adapters today. Waiting on those green plugins from China.

Are the Ethers ever comfy compared to the LCD 2.2s. Sound is very good already with zero hours on them. I think I'm going to 
really like them.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Yes I did, but I just got the adapters today. Waiting on those green plugins from China.
> 
> Are the *Ethers* ever comfy compared to the LCD 2.2s. *Sound is very good already with zero hours on them*. I think I'm going to
> really like them.


 
 You're making my knees weak. It's great news Ethers works on Elise. Now be a bit more descriptive.


----------



## aqsw

Still getting major distortion. Mazdas are unlistenable.. Even the 2031 I had in there before starts distorting about 10.

It's not the amp though. Its something in my tubes. I went back to total stock and distortion is gone till about 1 oclock.. Maybe its my 5998s?


----------



## aqsw

Could be the phones. These things are like 18 ohms. They sound great on the LC. Not so much on the Elise. 
Going to try the Audezes again. They are about 50 ohms. See if theres difference.


----------



## aqsw

The LCDs are much better than the Ethers for the Elise. I can get much greater volume without distortion from the Audezes. The Ethers will have to be happy with the Liquid Carbon. Damn, they are so comfortable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> The LCDs are much better than the Ethers for the Elise. I can get much greater volume without distortion from the Audezes. The Ethers will have to be happy with the Liquid Carbon. Damn, they are so comfortable.




Elise is said to be good for 32~600 ohms. Your 18 ohm cans, are definitely not a match.

From the Feliks site:

"Supported headphones impedance: 32 - 600 ohm"


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Still getting major distortion. Mazdas are unlistenable.. Even the 2031 I had in there before starts distorting about 10.
> 
> It's not the amp though. Its something in my tubes. I went back to total stock and distortion is gone till about 1 oclock.. Maybe its my 5998s?


 

 aqsw can you take a picture of your Mazda and the adapters that you use with it. 
  
 Did you move or change anything on the 2031? You had it ok before. I find the ground wire attached to the RCA quite fiddly. If the connection is not good, grounding is not spot on and hum will be induced. Now I'm happy because with my 3 pin grounded 12V 6A power supply, I don't need that ground wire on the RCA socket anymore.
  
 Honestly I've never got my volume to 1pm with HE560 with 2031 or 2 FDD20. It would have shattered my hearing. I did managed to get it to 4pm with 1635 tubes. It starts to distort at 5pm and at 6pm (max !!!) it distorts badly with 1635 tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Honestly I've never got my volume to 1pm with HE560 with 2031 or 2 FDD20. It would have shattered my hearing. I did managed to get it to 4pm with 1635 tubes. It starts to distort at 5pm and at 6pm (max !!!) it distorts badly with 1635 tubes.




What impedance are the HE560?

I run 11am to 2pm everyday w/600 ohm Beyers.

The 1635's do not work well in the Elise topology. You have to turn them up that loud to hear anything, and you mostly hear distortion.

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

Lukasz must be cringing in agony that we're trying unsupported tubes and adapters and then complaining they are humming.
  
 Problem is H1, JV, Suuup and myself have no problems with FDD20, 2031. Besides I have no problems with 6N7G, 6A6 and adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Lemme tell ya what....I LOVE having a turntable available to feed the Elise with! Wow!! I have some flippin' fantastic sounding vinyl's...

BIG SMILE!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Lukasz must be cringing in agony that we're trying unsupported tubes and adapters and then complaining they are humming.
> 
> Problem is H1, JV, Suuup and myself have no problems with FDD20, 2031. Besides I have no problems with 6N7G, 6A6 and adapters.




And I think aqsw said that the problem was 18 ohm cans, not the amp or tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> What impedance are the HE560?
> 
> I run 11am to 2pm everyday w/600 ohm Beyers.
> 
> ...


 

 I know 1635 shouldn't be use. I'm just making a point about turning up the volume.
  
 HE560 is 32ohms and 90db. Vert inefficient if you read reviews on the forums but Elise drives it to loud level at 11am. 
  
 Depending on your hearing, you might need 11am to 2pm on your DT990 600ohms but I think H1 says he requires only 11am on his T1 600ohms but I believe the db are different amongst the 2.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> And I think aqsw said that the problem was 18 ohm cans, not the amp or tubes?


 

 This is what he said...
  
_Still getting major distortion. Mazdas are unlistenable.. Even the 2031 I had in there before starts distorting about 10.

 It's not the amp though. Its something in my tubes. I went back to total stock and distortion is gone till about 1 oclock.. Maybe its my 5998s?_


----------



## aqsw

```

```



jazzvinyl said:


> Elise is said to be good for 32~600 ohms. Your 18 ohm cans, are definitely not a match.
> 
> From the Feliks site:
> 
> "Supported headphones impedance: 32 - 600 ohm"



,
Yes ! I did see that. I'm not complaining, as I knew it definately could be a problem. Already fixed, the Ethers go with the carbon and Hegel to my office. 

I use my Oppo pm3s for closed and lcds for open with the Elise and my new dac when I get it.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> 8
> 
> This is what he said...
> 
> ...




That is what I thought originally until I rememberedI had new cans.Thats when the lightbulb went on.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I know 1635 shouldn't be use. I'm just making a point about turning up the volume.
> 
> HE560 is 32ohms and 90db. Vert inefficient if you read reviews on the forums but Elise drives it to loud level at 11am.
> 
> Depending on your hearing, you might need 11am to 2pm on your DT990 600ohms but I think H1 says he requires only 11am on his T1 600ohms but I believe the db are different amongst the 2.




Everybody in my speaker world complains that I like it too loud 

Music not not 'background' to me...it's the Main Event


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> That is what I thought originally until I rememberedI had new cans.Thats when the lightbulb went on.


 

 That's good to hear. Can you confirm that with LCD2.2 and using Mazda 6N7G in Elise with adapters, you have no hum and listenable? Similarly 2031?


----------



## aqsw

Listening to Brandi Carlile right now. A very unique voice. I really like it. Her tunes are good too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Listening to Brandi Carlile right now. A very unique voice. I really like it. Her tunes are good too.




Streaming, aqsw?


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Streaming, aqsw?


yes, tidal. 

Oppo 3s with the Elise. (STOCK TUBESI just cant put the LC and Ethers on. Im a tube guy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> yes, tidal.
> 
> Oppo 3s with the Elise. (STOCK TUBESI just cant put the LC and Ethers on. Im a tube guy!




Hear ya bro! My amp before Tubes, was a "PPA v2 plus Steps, Custom Built (by Mister X) w/continuous Bass Boost"

And it was a monster nice amp. But not as *fun* as tube amps...period, and double exclamation point!!!

I am listening to Sarah McLachlan's album "Remixed" via lossless ripped from CD and 

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!


----------



## aqsw

I will try the Mazdas again tomorrow. Rght now Im listening to stock, and I'm emptying a skull. I'm happy after being stressed out earlier.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I will try the Mazdas again tomorrow. Rght now Im listening to stock, and I'm emptying a skull. I'm happy after being stressed out earlier.




Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I will try the Mazdas again tomorrow. Rght now Im listening to stock, and I'm emptying a skull. I'm happy after being stressed out earlier.


 

 Yup emptying that skull of Vodka will also remove any trace of hum, buzz or tingling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm about to go to a Christmas lunch stretching into dinner with more alcohol I've seen in my life. Let's hope I've a clear head tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I am listening to Sarah McLachlan's album "Remixed" via lossless ripped from CD and
> 
> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!


 
 Ummm I'm listening to it now on Tidal HiF. Gorgeous. Made for tube amp. Between 11 and 12 o'clock ... TOO LOUD !


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Ummm I'm listening to it now on Tidal HiF. Gorgeous. Made for tube amp. Between 11 and 12 o'clock ... TOO LOUD !




Dont get that album in Canada on tidal. Ill have to look elsewhere.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Ummm I'm listening to it now on Tidal HiF. Gorgeous. Made for tube amp. Between 11 and 12 o'clock ... TOO LOUD !




Dont get that album in Canada on tidal. Ill have to look elsewhere.


----------



## UntilThen

I hope to visit my brother in Canada next year and see if I get a chance to see you and geetarman in the land of the maple leaves.
  
 I've been wanting to ask you. What is aqsw?


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I hope to visit my brother in Canada next year and see if I get a chance to see you and geetarman in the land of the maple leaves.
> 
> I've been wanting to ask you. What is aqsw?



If you are in Winnipeg, you got a place to rest your head. Wheres your brother?


----------



## aqsw

Aqsw is 4 letters at the top of a qwerty keyboard. Im lazy!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> If you are in Winnipeg, you got a place to rest your head. Wheres your brother?


 
Mississauga, Ontario. That's far from Winnipeg I guess.
 









aqsw said:


> Aqsw is 4 letters at the top of a qwerty keyboard. Im lazy!


 
 LOL, you're impossible


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Mississauga, Ontario. That's far from Winnipeg I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


6

Only about 1500 miles?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Only about 1500 miles?


 











  can you pick me up on your Harley Davidson?
  
 We'll detour to see @geetarman49 in Edmonton if it's convenient.
  
 Ooo Edmonton is beautiful..


----------



## aqsw

You get to Winnipeg, and you can borrow one of my bikes (burgman) and we can go visit him. Only about 900 miles west of me. 2400 from Missysaga.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> You get to Winnipeg, and you can borrow one of my bikes (burgman) and we can go visit him. Only about 900 miles west of me. 2400 from Missysaga.


 

 Ok deal. I haven't ridden a bike for more than 40 years but I'm sure I can still keep upright and 900 miles is nothing.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Ok deal. I haven't ridden a bike for more than 40 years but I'm sure I can still keep upright and 900 miles is nothing.



Your on!

Rattle that lock. David Gilmour sounds pretty good with these Oppos


----------



## aqsw

The Burgman is a 650 cc automatic scooter. Weighs just over 600 lbs and will do over 180 kms per hour.
Great machine. I have two of them. My wife has done many tours of over 4000 miles with hers.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Rattle that lock. David Gilmour sounds pretty good with these Oppos


 
 You got taste. It's rattling on FDD20 and Chatham on my setup now and this is the reason I love tube amps. It's unbelievable. It's haunting. I love what I'm hearing so much with HE560.
  
 aqsw, you need to add HE560 to your collection of planar magnetics. It's perfect with Elise. I've no doubt your Oppo PM 1 will sound good too.
  
  
 Beyer T1 364 grams
  
 HD800 388 grams
  
 Foster TH900 389 grams
  
 OPPO PM1 417 grams
  
 Alpha Dogs 444 grams
  
 LCD-X 600 grams
  
HE560 390 grams
  
HD650 260 grams !!!


----------



## aqsw

Went back to the Mazdas and 2031. Major distortion again. The only drivers that seem to work half assed are the stock tung sols.They are working ok with the 5998s. Distortion about 1 oclock. Anything else 10 oclock.

I paid a fortune for those Mazdas. I think ill have to junk them. I wouldnt feel comfortable selling them.


----------



## aqsw

Don't have pm1s. I have pm3s. Used to have He500s. Didnt like them. I gave them to my daughter.


----------



## nojdrof

jazzvinyl said:


> Lemme tell ya what....I LOVE having a turntable available to feed the Elise with! Wow!! I have some flippin' fantastic sounding vinyl's...
> 
> BIG SMILE!!


What turntable are you using? I'm a big vinyl fan and can't wait to try mine.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Went back to the Mazdas and 2031. Major distortion again. The only drivers that seem to work half assed are the stock tung sols.They are working ok with the 5998s. Distortion about 1 oclock. Anything else 10 oclock.
> 
> I paid a fortune for those Mazdas. I think ill have to junk them. I wouldnt feel comfortable selling them.


 

 Using which headphone?


----------



## UntilThen

My daughter gave me a Christmas card with words in it that warms my heart...
  


 ... and $250. It wasn't that long ago when I was carrying her on my shoulders. Memories.
  
 You can see in the photo I have on 2 FDD20 and Chatham 6520. It is music to my ears.
  
 Merry Christmas everyone.


----------



## Lord Raven

The green elves are here with the 12V 3A grounded power supply, happy Christmas everyone  

Unfortunately, the hum is there and is louder. Tried everything to enjoy the night before Christmas but something is stirring in the house lol

Cheers 
LR


----------



## DecentLevi

Here's a couple random 80's songs that I thought were particularly well mastered. They sound phenomenal on my LC / balanced HD-650 setup and I bet they sound otherworldly good on the Elise amp. And I found these in HD on Youtube:

 (edit: for this one, click the Youtube icon at bottom to listen there)


----------



## Lorspeaker

wow this Laura Branigan song is ...33333DDDD , nice !!


----------



## JazzVinyl

nojdrof said:


> What turntable are you using? I'm a big vinyl fan and can't wait to try mine.




Hello nojdrof...Merry Christmas!

I am currently using a Harman Kardon T-25 that has had the full set of Van Alistine specified mods preformed on it.
The most important mods are to stuff the innards with "plasticlay", and removing all AC from the underside of the
table, you place the AC to DC power supply circuitry in a separate enclosure, and kept away from the table. Just 12v DC runs to the table, via an extra shielded cable.

It has VTA adjustment (that many tables lack). A stethoscope on the deck, reveals it to be a pretty quiet table after the mods. 

Sounds good. Of course you can beat it, but you start spending in the thousands, to do so.

Cheers...


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi.  Thanks for reminding me about Laura. She's the only thing on Tidal right now that could pull me away from the Beatles while I wait for the rest of the family to wake up for Christmas morning.
  
 Unfortunately my Elise hasn't shipped yet, but I'm definitely rockin out with Laura this morning )) But sorry - her "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" is a distant second to the Shirilles' original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnPlJxet_ac !!!
  
 Merry Christmas everyone )))


----------



## Suuup

I run my Elise at about 9AM with my 600 ohm Beyer T1's. This is plenty loud for me - and I like it loud.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I run my Elise at about 9AM with my 600 ohm Beyer T1's. This is plenty loud for me - and I like it loud.




What??? 

9am, really? I am using a DAP as source at the "line out" level. This must be the difference.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Look what Santa brought me!!




It's Black Sabbath's "Paranoid" from a 'short run' reissue on marbled purple vinyl w/original olive label and gatefold coverl!!

Somehow Santa knew that this was an LP I didn't already have in my collection of 2000+ LP's! 
Kind of amazing 
So glad I didn't get a lump of coal (again). 

haha

Merry Christmas, everyone!! 




.


----------



## mordy

Can I run a headphone from the line out RCA plugs instead of the headphone jack?  Is there any difference?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Can I run a headphone from the line out RCA plugs instead of the headphone jack?  Is there any difference?




Hello Mordy, I would suggest the RCA out's are Line Level, and meant to be amplified again.

So they essentially make the Elise a "Tube Buffer" rather than a "Tube Amplifier"?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Mordy, I would suggest the RCA out's are Line Level, and meant to be amplified again.
> 
> So they essentially make the Elise a "Tube Buffer" rather than a "Tube Amplifier"?


 
 Really? Didn't someone make Elise run with some very efficient speakers, or am I remembering wrong?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Really? Didn't someone make Elise run with some very efficient speakers, or am I remembering wrong?




From the owners' Manual:
http://feliksau.unixstorm.org/pliki/elise_en.pdf

1 - Line input
2 - Line output (pre-amp mode)

I remember the claim of a desire to power some small speakers but may I suggest that you could not do that with Line Out level, but maybe via the headphone out instead. The headphone out is rated @ 200mw or slightly less than 1/4 of 1 watt...so the speakers would have to be "very very efficient", indeed.

In my own use of line out, they go to a SS amp's "AUX input" for amplification out to speakers. Hence you get the benefit of the sound of the tubes in "tube buffer" fashion - tube sound @ line level output (not "amplified"). 

Cheers!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> can you pick me up on your Harley Davidson?
> 
> We'll detour to see @geetarman49 in Edmonton if it's convenient.
> 
> Ooo Edmonton is beautiful..


 
  
 you should see it now (-12c and blanketed with snow) --- major redevelopment underway downtown.
 i, too, happen to have a friend in mississauga 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.   along with 'lost' friends in oz (melbourne) -- my 1st job was teaching in gtr melbourne.
  
  


aqsw said:


> You get to Winnipeg, and you can borrow one of my bikes (burgman) and we can go visit him. Only about 900 miles west of me. 2400 from Missysaga.


 
 i can't promise you guys a bed & brekkie, but definitely a good time.  dimsum for brunch & steak & ribs for dinner along with a few drams of single malt, octopus rum, tito's vodka & the like ... oh yeah, plenty o' dsd muzak too.  phones will be stax, stax, and k7xx.  maybe elise will be there too.
  
 i'd love to see burgman in the flesh --- used to ride decades ago. i miss it but i'm not physically up for that anymore.
  
 & from here, a couple hrs driving will take @UntilThen to the foot of the rockies.


----------



## UntilThen




----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> The green elves are here with the 12V 3A grounded power supply, happy Christmas everyone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 can't say that this will resolve your noise, but you need to move that pwr brick far away from elise; unwind that coiled up ac cord; route the interconnects as far away from all the pwr cords; route the dc pwr to the tubes away from the ac cords and interconnects.  when it is not possible to keep pwr cords & interconnects from intersecting, then try to separate by lifting one over the other (use thread or string to hold them up if necessary).


----------



## UntilThen

The 80s....good times. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have Laura on CD and those Youtube links does sound nice even. 'Self Control' ..appropriate song at this time of year. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JV, lovely looking turntable and LP.
  
 The bonus on being on a thread such as this. You might actually visit one another. Geetarman, we might really come by and see you. On the bucket list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't know you were in Melbourne before. Come back for a visit. It is a lovely city but I'm a Sydneysider. We have the most lovely weather yesterday on Christmas Day. 25 degrees in Summer for a change. Today is Boxing Day here where we don our boxing gloves. This morning the usual mad rush by bargain hunters to departmental stores but I hate crowded shopping even if it's a bargain.
  
 Thanks for the generous welcome to your city. Do visit me here if you can. Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> can't say that this will resolve your noise, but you need to move that pwr brick far away from elise; unwind that coiled up ac cord; route the interconnects as far away from all the pwr cords; route the dc pwr to the tubes away from the ac cords and interconnects.  when it is not possible to keep pwr cords & interconnects from intersecting, then try to separate by lifting one over the other (use thread or string to hold them up if necessary).


 

 This is good advice and what I do. I ground my wire to the left RCA socket before I got my grounded 12V. Maybe that might make a difference? It solve the hum for me. Never tried the right RCA. Might not make a difference. The things we do to get good sound...using 12V and more cables. However we're moving on to wireless with EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Nursing a bit of a hang over from last night's drinks, this lyrics from Baltimora - Tarzan Boy makes me smile. Thanks @DecentLevi
  
 Jungle life
 I'm far away from nowhere
 On my own like Tarzan Boy

 Hide and seek
 I play along while rushing cross the forest
 Monkey business on a sunny afternoon

 Jungle life
 I'm living in the open
 Native beat that carries on

 Burning bright
 A fire that blows the signal to the sky
 I sit and wonder does the message get to you


----------



## UntilThen

This is how it all started.


 Then this.


 Then this.


 Then...back to jungle beats. 
  
 Let's see your pictorial review.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks for the admiration of those couple 80's songs. In the process of upgrading my audio chain 5x in the last 12 months I've been rediscovering how good old analogue_-ish_ music sounds. I stopped listening to so-called popular music around 2006 for the stuck-up lyrics and poor recording quality that basically everybody loves now. What I really love is electronic music, and I recently put together a playlist compilation of my favorite tracks from the mid 60's - 90's, late 90's, and 2000's that you can check out if you'd like.
  
 Let's see how far they'll let us derail this thread on Christmas without locking it... or better yet just don't do it and imagine we did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Anyway it's still Christmas in the US. See you everybody!


----------



## UntilThen

Your ma man. I'm listening to a playlist from Tidal of 60s to 80s music and this song came on...
  
 Living Next Door To Elise.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 
  
 24 years and I'm still listening to it.


----------



## UntilThen

These 2 look so happy singing it.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Thanks for the admiration of those couple 80's songs. In the process of upgrading my audio chain 5x in the last 12 months I've been rediscovering how good old analogue_-ish_ music sounds. I stopped listening to so-called popular music around 2006 for the stuck-up lyrics and poor recording quality that basically everybody loves now. What I really love is electronic music, and I recently put together a playlist compilation of my favorite tracks from the mid 60's - 90's, late 90's, and 2000's that you can check out if you'd like.
> 
> Let's see how far they'll let us derail this thread on Christmas without locking it... or better yet just don't do it and imagine we did
> 
> ...


 
 Pretty sure we've been more off-topic before. I seem to remember at least a couple of pages filled with motorcycles?
  
 As another off-topic side-note, I can bust the myth that the 1770 beats the T1. It doesn't at all.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm going to get to try the 1770's next month at another meet I'm setting up - we'll see about that one


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I can bust the myth that the 1770 beats the T1. It doesn't at all.


 
 Hahaha...doesn't it? What a bummer but then how can you beat the best Beyer headphone. 1770 Pro is only an upgraded 770 Pro whereas T1 has always been Beyer's TOTL headphone, notwithstanding one is closed and the other open design.
  
 Nothing is off topic because eventually we come back to discussing this tube amp.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> I'm going to get to try the 1770's next month at another meet I'm setting up - we'll see about that one


 
 I'd recommend you don't buy it from Amazon. That is where I bought mine. I bought them for 400$, but something went wrong, and I was told to re-order from one of their 3rd party vendors for 600$, and they'd issue a refund of 200$, the price difference. I got 150$, but is still missing the remaining 50$. I talked to Amazon support 2 weeks ago, and they told me they'd refund the remaining 50$ and apologized for the mistake. Still haven't received the 50$. I've been talking to Amazon support for close to 4 hours now. They absolutely refuse to refund the reamining 50$. They acknowledge their mistake and apologize. The best they can do, is a 50$ giftcard. I cannot use this giftcard though, as I don't live in the US. Merry Christmas, huh?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'd recommend you don't buy it from Amazon. That is where I bought mine. I bought them for 400$, but something went wrong, and I was told to re-order from one of their 3rd party vendors for 600$, and they'd issue a refund of 200$, the price difference. I got 150$, but is still missing the remaining 50$. I talked to Amazon support 2 weeks ago, and they told me they'd refund the remaining 50$ and apologized for the mistake. Still haven't received the 50$. I've been talking to Amazon support for close to 4 hours now. They absolutely refuse to refund the reamining 50$. They acknowledge their mistake and apologize. The best they can do, is a 50$ giftcard. I cannot use this giftcard though, as I don't live in the US. Merry Christmas, huh?


 

 That's sad. Very deceptive. I prefer to buy my headphones from this walk in store in Sydney where I can try out any headphones with a few amps. 1770 Pro is AUD$899 here.
  
 http://www.minidisc.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=1770+Pro&osCsid=d83c22d27544f5926db9b4c982478dca&x=0&y=0


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Happy Birthday to Elise &
  
 Merry Christmas to you all
  
 Happy Listening


----------



## JazzVinyl

Right-o....if it's an update to the DT-770 and indeed closed...no way is it going to touch the TOTL cans.



.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


>


 
  
 That's good to know, Suuup...don't really want anything to be demoting my T1s - I just _*love*_ them to death, lol!.. And they - the Gen1, at least! - were _*made*_ for Elise (especially + EL3N!!).
  
 Talking of which (as if I need much encouragement, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...even though I've only been able to catch a small amount of time with the RTS Transco tube partnering the 'Red Series' Philips, things are looking very interesting. At the moment, I'm getting shades of 2031 vs 2x FDD20s - but without the slight difference in soundstage 'cohesion' that some notice (but which actually brings something I personally, and @UntilThen like!). The RTS _seems_ to be giving a tad less bass - but still _immense_ - and a tad more C3g-like highest treble frequencies....result..._*delicious!!*_








.
  
 BUT, of course, this could well alter slightly with further burn-in and move closer to the 'Red' balance...which wouldn't worry me in the slightest anyway, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So, the saga continues... A quick pic of the duo in action - complete with masking tape still in situ, I'm afraid....still haven't had time to finish off properly, but couldn't wait to update you guys.
  
 Hope y'all had a marvellous Christmas Day, and continue to enjoy the festivities....and *A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!...*CHEERS!    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
__ 
  
 ps. Please, PLEASE may your EL3N adapters arrive *soon*_*!!*_...I'm feeling _real_ lonely here...


----------



## UntilThen

Don't the EL3N look like a natural fit on Elise. No 12V cables. So neat for a change. No doubt the sound must be heavenly. You know H1, whilst waiting for the adapters, I've been going back and forth between 2 FDD20, 2031 and Fivre 6N7G brown base with Chatham 6AS7G and 5998. I cease not to be amazed at the glorious sound I'm getting right now.
  
 If you ask me to do a straight trade in of my Elise for a more expensive tube amp, I would tell you politely, no thank you. I love Elise as she is right now and I've far too many tubes for me to interchange on a daily basis. Happy is the person who is satisfied with the sound from his setup. I am happy now. I really am, especially with HE560 as my headphone.
  
 So now, it's a matter of time, probably next week when my adapters should be arriving. I await for that moment to shatter my current state of contentment. I really cannot imagine what EL3N will bring but you've been right time and again. So this is the most anticipated driver tube that I've been waiting for to try out.
  
 Cheers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P/S I've been having a great time this Christmas. I wish the same for all of you.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> These 2 look so happy singing it.




  
 Music like this just makes me glad I was born.
  
 By the way, when I was in law school in the late 60's I had a 650cc BSA Lighting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Lightning. My first, last and only motorcycle. lol
  
 I hope you guys can take that bike trek through Canada this summer. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance combined with Elise camaraderie - what could be better???


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Music like this just makes me glad I was born.
> 
> By the way, when I was in law school in the late 60's I had a 650cc BSA Lighting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Lightning. My first, last and only motorcycle. lol
> 
> I hope you guys can take that bike trek through Canada this summer. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance combined with Elise camaraderie - what could be better???


 
 The only bike I had was a Yamaha 175cc scrambler, just as I was going into the army at 18. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Like the song says, I was so young and I was so free then. That was when I fell in love with a girl who is now my wife. Yes this songs brings back the memories. Beautiful ones.
  
 I have another brother in Phoenix, Arizona. So who knows, one day I maybe knocking on your door pctazhp.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I have another brother in Phoenix, Arizona. So who knows, one day I maybe knocking on your door pctazhp.


 
  
 That would really be great. The welcome mat will ALWAYS be out for you ))))


----------



## Lord Raven

Today I changed my heating power supply from 12V 3A adapter (laptop looking grounded one) to a 12V battery. It is called Anker, can supply 20,000mAh at 12/9V. It is quite unfortunate that I still have some kind of faint hum.
 I made my cables tidy as per geetarman's suggestions. This helps too, I know this from my car audio experience, and this has brought me to a point where I would invest in better RCA cables that reject noise, not these Radioshack cheap ones.
  
 Also, I ran a 8 gauge cable (green cable that is used for grounding purposes, see last picture) from the water hose to my extension cord's ground, this helped like 30-40% of the hum. In can feel the difference if I remove and plug the cable in the extension cord's ground pin.
  
 This is the portable battery, very good quality built and excellent reviews on Amazon UK.

  
 See the tidy cables and the battery is connected to the heating circuit.

  
 This is the only position of the red/black cables that give lowest hum, notice they are not touching any tubes. LOL

 See the Suzier faulty adapters, kept as decoration pieces LOL

 From bottom, first plug is Elise, 2nd is my laptop charger, 3rd is 12V 3A power supply (switched off), then DAC 12V 1A power supply.

  
 When will I be hum free? Please pray for me, I think this is my last resort  Have a happy new year!!!
  
 Edit: This is the best result by far  Almost hum free, I think a battery almost cures everything.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> ...
> 
> I have another brother in Phoenix, Arizona. So who knows, one day I maybe knocking on your door pctazhp.


 
 hmmm ... & i used to live & work in phnx too ... is there a pattern here?


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> See the tidy cables and the battery is connected to the heating circuit.
> 
> 
> This is the only position of the red/black cables that give lowest hum, notice they are not touching any tubes. LOL
> ...


 
 way too many devices/cables ... suggest divide & conquer approach.
 0. shut off pwr at fuse/switch box to everything in home/apt. except for receptacles used in stereo system
 1. eliminate everything from pwr bar except elise/hps & battery pwr for tubes
 2. use rca shorting plugs on the elise inputs (here, i am assuming that the elise is unconditionally stable with the inputs shorted - if this is not the case, then don't do this!)
 3. w/o source, check for residual hum levels ... try moving pwr cord, changing pwr cord, chng headphone, chng headphone cable, etc. & go with whatever yields lowest hum.
 4. connect source to pwr bar ... but don't connect source to anything else (no interconnects of any kind).  check hum levels again.  if there is any change from 3. then try different pwr cords.
 5. connect dac to pwr bar ...  repeat as per 4.
 6. connect source to dac with appropriate usb cable(s).  check again for hum levels ... try different usb cables ... route cables differently to see if there is any difference in hum (ofc, choose that which yields lowest hum).
 7. finally connect dac to elise with interconnects ... try different interconnects & try different routing paths by physically moving the cables ... tape them down if necessary.
  
 from battery (or even from regulated, linear ps) use only uninterrupted cable from + and - to the tube sockets.  the quick disconnects, while handy, can also be a receptor for noise.
 again, be aware of cable placement.  & if you make your own cables, take care in quality of soldering/finish ... lead (pr. lēd) dress matters!
 8. turn fuse/switch box back on ... if hum increases, then you know something else in the home is responsible.
  
 hth,


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> See the tidy cables and the battery is connected to the heating circuit.
> 
> 
> When will I be hum free? Please pray for me, I think this is my last resort  Have a happy new year!!!
> ...


 
 Big improvement and I'm glad you're almost hum free. Did you reverse the red and white RCA plug on Elise? One other thing, your Elise seems very close to the wall power socket.  You've done so much to make Elise hum free. Makes me feel guilty as I did nothing special and I'm totally hum free.
  
 I mentioned about the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 tube paddles making bad contact with the adapter plates. I use a small flat screw driver and insert it into the bottom of each plate on the adapter and lift upwards, making the plates push out in the middle, like how it was when new (see picture). Now with those tubes with short paddles inserted, my contact is solid. I am hum free and buzz free. If only your problem is as simple as this to solve.
  

  
@geetarman49 is very thorough. I guess if you have persistent hum, however slight, then follow his advice. You eliminate each possible humming bird one by one.


----------



## Suuup

Just arrived home after Christmas. Immediately went and plugged my 1770's into Elise. *Aaaaaaaaaaannnnndddd............* Hum. 
  
 Hmmm. There is no hum with my T1's *at all. *
  
 If I touch the casing the hum becomes much lower, some thing when touching the RCA jacks. 
  
 I'm running my 6N7G Fivres and my pair of 5998's. 
  
  
 Anyway, I played some music. Suddenly these headphones opened up. They sound nothing like when I run them out of my phone / laptop. I made my claim about them being nowhere near the T1's without having heard them run on the Elise. I was trying to compare them to how I remembered my T1's sounding out of my phone / laptop. I'll have to re-investigate the difference with Elise. I'm not saying the 1770's are better at all, in fact I still think the T1's are ahead, but I'm not sure yet. It is much closer now.


----------



## Suuup

I rolled the stock drivers. No hum at all. 
  
@Lord Raven I have a theory, but I might need your help. If you move your hands near the driver tubes, does the hum increase in loudness?


----------



## UntilThen

This is the cables layout for my setup. Connection from DAC to Elise and 12V to the FDD20s. Notice there's some room between Elise and my wall power socket, also the wires behind are space out as best as I can. The wall sockets goes to 2 additional power extension boards on the floor. That is where my iMac, DAC, Elise and the 12V power supply are connected.
  
 This is my pitch black, hum free setup. However with EL3N, perhaps we can pack the 12V away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Even my cable modem is right next to Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Touch the tubes !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Suuup when I move my hands near the driver tubes, nothing happens. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh wait...I can feel a bit of electric current flowing through to my fingers. Nah my imaginations.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Just arrived home after Christmas. Immediately went and plugged my 1770's into Elise. *Aaaaaaaaaaannnnndddd............* Hum.
> 
> Hmmm. There is no hum with my T1's *at all. *
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder why your 1770 Pro hums and your T1 doesn't with Elise and the same tubes. *Very strange*. One is 250ohms and the other 600ohms.
 I notice that my HD650 is not as pitch black silent as my HE560 too. It is hum free but just doesn't sound total pitch black. Any explanation?
  
 No wonder the 1770 Pro doesn't sound good when you run it off your phone / laptop. It's 250ohms and best use with an amp.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I wonder why your 1770 Pro hums and your T1 doesn't with Elise and the same tubes. *Very strange*. One is 250ohms and the other 600ohms.
> I notice that my HD650 is not as pitch black silent as my HE560 too. It is hum free but just doesn't sound total pitch black. Any explanation?
> 
> No wonder the 1770 Pro doesn't sound good when you run it off your phone / laptop. It's 250ohms and best use with an amp.


 
 Oh yea, absolutely, but the T1's didn't sound too terrible actually.


----------



## Lord Raven

Elise can make an ordinary CD recording sound like super audio high resolution disc  I just plugged back and forth between my DAC's amplifier and Elise, boy was I surprised?
  
 I am finally in heaven!!!
  
 Listening to Madrigal Meridian - Tangerine Dream - Cyclone, does anyone know this remastered album? 
  

  
  
 I am proudly hum free from tonight  I still think something is wrong with either the adapters or the red/black cables that I hear faintest of hum. I keep HPs on for 5-10 minutes without music and then when I remove them, I can feel the difference. LOL I will try to ignore it just like the tinnitus I am hearing these days due to fever and cold ****


----------



## UntilThen

I'm listening to Madrigal Meridian - Tangerine Dream - Cyclone on Tidal at 16/44.1 now. Nice. Thanks for the recommendation and congrats to getting your setup hum free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Do what I suggest with the adapters plates LR. That could solve your last hum problem. See post #4716.


----------



## Lord Raven

Following your advice bro, I have already put my DAC on a different wall socket before seeing your post  Did it change anything or not, I don't know yet.
  
 I have not started from the main circuit breakers of my apartment, but I have already switched off the central AC, exhaust fans and freezer is not always on LOL
  
 I am almost hum and noise free, thank you very very much. The ground cable I laid really did the job, point to be noticed for all members 
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> way too many devices/cables ... suggest divide & conquer approach.
> 0. shut off pwr at fuse/switch box to everything in home/apt. except for receptacles used in stereo system
> 1. eliminate everything from pwr bar except elise/hps & battery pwr for tubes
> 2. use rca shorting plugs on the elise inputs (here, i am assuming that the elise is unconditionally stable with the inputs shorted - if this is not the case, then don't do this!)
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 Firstly, thank you for the suggestions. I already switched RCA's before seeing your post (don't know if it helped or not but it made some cables tidy) LOL.
  
 I will have to move it away from socket but Elise is laying on my bed side table LOL I have a big table but that is used for dinning  But I have already put Elise on an extension cord that is plugged 5 meters away from it, even outside the room LOL
  
 I have not messed with the inside of the adapters yet, but I have scraped the FDD20 paddles with nail file and brass is so shiny now  LOL Next I will do the inside, but I still believe there is something wrong inside, or may be the red/black cable is broken somewhere inside, if I move it then hum changes with it 
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Big improvement and I'm glad you're almost hum free. Did you reverse the red and white RCA plug on Elise? One other thing, your Elise seems very close to the wall power socket.  You've done so much to make Elise hum free. Makes me feel guilty as I did nothing special and I'm totally hum free.
> 
> I mentioned about the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 tube paddles making bad contact with the adapter plates. I use a small flat screw driver and insert it into the bottom of each plate on the adapter and lift upwards, making the plates push out in the middle, like how it was when new (see picture). Now with those tubes with short paddles inserted, my contact is solid. I am hum free and buzz free. If only your problem is as simple as this to solve.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice layout LOL I am wishing for EL3N to arrive soon, I will get rid of all my tubes, including these Philips Miniwatt FDD20s from the 1942 LOL
  


untilthen said:


> This is the cables layout for my setup. Connection from DAC to Elise and 12V to the FDD20s. Notice there's some room between Elise and my wall power socket, also the wires behind are space out as best as I can. The wall sockets goes to 2 additional power extension boards on the floor. That is where my iMac, DAC, Elise and the 12V power supply are connected.
> 
> This is my pitch black, hum free setup. However with EL3N, perhaps we can pack the 12V away.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is what makes me go crazy when you talk about your ET powers LOL


untilthen said:


> Touch the tubes !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Bro, the 3rd track is awesome  I think tidal is great in this regard, instant music access, no need to look around and download music and pay for album by album. I have the same 16/44.1 quality in this album, sounds like 382k Gold LOL
  
 I am worried I might break something again, like I broke the Suzier's adapters in anger. Without adapters, I am dead silent, hum and noise free like pitch black night, the darkest hour LOL
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> I'm listening to Madrigal Meridian - Tangerine Dream - Cyclone on Tidal at 16/44.1 now. Nice. Thanks for the recommendation and congrats to getting your setup hum free.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Well don't wiggle the red / black cables too much. They are connected to the inside points of your adapters. If I wiggle my adapter cables, I get buzz and hum too. Don't try to shift it out of position.


----------



## Lord Raven

Quote:


suuup said:


> I rolled the stock drivers. No hum at all.
> 
> @Lord Raven I have a theory, but I might need your help. If you move your hands near the driver tubes, does the hum increase in loudness?


 
  
 If I place all my fingers on the burning tubes, then there is a faint hum that gets a tad louder. Same thing if I touch the white part of the adapters. It is now very very faith increase, before it was A LOT. 
  
 I think I am almost in HEAVEN LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> If I place all my fingers on the burning tubes, then there is a faint hum that gets a tad louder. Same thing if I touch the white part of the adapters. It is now very very faith increase, before it was A LOT.
> 
> I think I am almost in HEAVEN LOL


 
 Have you tried running the Elise without connecting it to anything except the headphones? No other devices plugged into your power board and no RCA plugs in the Elise. Do you still have hum?


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Have you tried running the Elise without connecting it to anything except the headphones? No other devices plugged into your power board and no RCA plugs in the Elise. Do you still have hum?


 
 Bro, after the 12V battery installation, there is almost nothing LOL
  
 I have tried it, even I connected the negative of the DAC's 12V PS to the negative of the Elise's ECA to make sure there is not a ground loop between Elise and the DAC.
  
 I assure you, with the batter, things are almost like stock tubes, quiet!!!!!!!!!!! Including the 8 gauge ground wire that I laid to the water hose LOL 
  
 I have done it


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Bro, after the 12V battery installation, there is almost nothing LOL
> 
> I have tried it, even I connected the negative of the DAC's 12V PS to the negative of the Elise's ECA to make sure there is not a ground loop between Elise and the DAC.
> 
> ...


 
 Hallelujah 
  
 All you have to do to get the plates on the adapters out again is to do this. Insert a small flat screw driver at the base of the plate and push upwards and the fulcrum motion will push the middle part of the plate outwards again. Simple just don't use brute force. Gently.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Well don't wiggle the red / black cables too much. They are connected to the inside points of your adapters. If I wiggle my adapter cables, I get buzz and hum too. Don't try to shift it out of position.


 
 This is what I feel, they are not flexible and might have been broken from inside by now. I have twisted them, braided them, with each other and with the 12V power supply cable. This position gives the best result LOL
  
 I am not totally satisfied by these adapters, honestly speaking. They made me lose sleep for several nights and I have spent on 3 different power supplies by now. However, my Elise is super quiet with stock tubes, so there is nothing wrong with my setup, only adapters I put makes Elise go crazy.
  
 I wish Elise was made for EL3N or FDD20 kind of tubes. We would all have been heaven from day one LOL
  
 PS Elise can now work as long as the battery lasts LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

HALLELUJAH   I'm hum free LOL
  
 Thanks, I will do it when I have hum HAHA
  
 Edit: I need some sleep now, as too many sleepless nights gave me bad health. Good night and a happy new year to all once again from the middle east where there is no hum.
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Hallelujah
> 
> All you have to do to get the plates on the adapters out again is to do this. Insert a small flat screw driver at the base of the plate and push upwards and the fulcrum motion will push the middle part of the plate outwards again. Simple just don't use brute force. Gently.


----------



## UntilThen

From what you have describe I don't think it's the adapters that has problems. I mentioned several posts ago that my FDD20 hums. That is because the paddles are not contacting well with the adapters plates. When it is not contacting well, if I touch the adapters, the hum increases. When I touch the RCA socket on Elise the hum goes away.
  
 Only by getting the FDD20 to contact well with the adapter, did it make the hum go away completely. Thereafter even if I touch the adapter, I get no sound or feedback. I've been trying very hard to get this message across because I'm sure some of you would be in this situation too. Perhaps you problem is different but this is a known issue in my case.


----------



## Lord Raven

Adapters, I hate them  They are putting bottlenecks into pure music. 
  
 I wish to have the other golden ECC31 adapters soon to enjoy some ECC31 and 6N7G LOVE!!!!!!!
  
 EL3N adapters are also riding the low tide, EL3N tubes are riding the lightening and should arrive soon   
  
 Then I will be in heaven for certain!
  
 Remember the steps I did guys, use different wall sockets for each item in your rig, run ground cable from the water hose, use a battery for heating circuit and go hum free... LOL
  
 Edit: Last but not the least, make your setup tidy with space between things 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> From what you have describe I don't think it's the adapters that has problems. I mentioned several posts ago that my FDD20 hums. That is because the paddles are not contacting well with the adapters plates. When it is not contacting well, if I touch the adapters, the hum increases. When I touch the RCA socket on Elise the hum goes away.
> 
> Only by getting the FDD20 to contact well with the adapter, did it make the hum go away completely. Thereafter even if I touch the adapter, I get no sound or feedback. I've been trying very hard to get this message across because I'm sure some of you would be in this situation too. Perhaps you problem is different but this is a known issue in my case.


----------



## Suuup

Beyerdynamic 1770:
 5998 + Fivre 6N7G = Hum.
 6080 + Joybringers = Hum. 
 6080 + 6SN7 Stock = No hum.
 6080 + Fivre 6N7G = Very low hum.


----------



## Suuup

Okay, I'm pretty sure I figured out what's wrong. It's the sockets in either the adapters or my Elise. UT's post about the loose connection in his FDD20 adapters gave me the idea. After the Fivres around for a bit, the hum is 99.99% gone. Not sure why there's no hum on my T1's though.


----------



## UntilThen

Today Elise has been with me exactly
  

  
 and it's hum free. No water pipes connection required. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes Suuup, often times it's how the tubes are sitting on the adapters. Sit it right between tubes and adapters and adapter and Elise sockets and you'll be hum free.
  
 These adapters are 3rd party products. They are not solid gold. There will be some odd defects but the majority of adapters should work without problems. I too agree with H1 now. Too much tube rolling will loosen the contacts or in our hurry we just plunge in the adapters or tubes and may not sit them well.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Today Elise has been with me exactly
> 
> and it's hum free. No water pipes connection required.
> 
> ...


 
 I fear, however, that it's not the adapters, but the sockets in Elise, that are making bad contact. They've been getting very loose as of late. The adapters are still very tight. Who knows, I might have to open up Elise to install some new sockets. I don't feel like I've done too many swaps though. Not sure how they can already be so loose.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I fear, however, that it's not the adapters, but the sockets in Elise, that are making bad contact. They've been getting very loose as of late. The adapters are still very tight. Who knows, I might have to open up Elise to install some new sockets. I don't feel like I've done too many swaps though. Not sure how they can already be so loose.


 

 That's a real surprise to me. Our Elise are manufactured one after the other. Yours is 21 and I'm 22. I've rolled more than 200 times now. As often as 5 different combos a day. When I do drivers comparison, I might change as much as 20 times in one day.
  
 Sockets are still firm and tight. I'm not rolling as much now. Just settle on a combo and listen to music.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's a real surprise to me. Our Elise are manufactured one after the other. Yours is 21 and I'm 22. I've rolled more than 200 times now. As often as 5 different combos a day. When I do drivers comparison, I might change as much as 20 times in one day.
> 
> Sockets are still firm and tight. I'm not rolling as much now. Just settle on a combo and listen to music.


 
 I'm not sure why mine are becoming loose. I've done <50 swaps in total.


----------



## UntilThen

I was looking for this song but found this instead...what the


----------



## UntilThen

Alright that is terrible. Now this is class. Aretha Franklin nails it. One of the best singers IMO.


----------



## Suuup

@hypnos1 I have good news for you! The 1770 doesn't come close to the T1's. This is my final conclusion. Are they good? Most certainly, I do not regret my purchase at all. But they can't really compare to the T1's. It's most likely because they're closed. 
  
 They're no where near as detailed as the T1. Soundstage was actually surprisingly good, but still no where near the T1. Upper bass is a bit boomy. Bass extension beats the T1 though. In general, the bass is 'fuller' than the T1, but not as controlled. The 1770's is more of a 'shake-your-head' kind of bass, where the T1 has a strong focus on controlling the bass, and producing the right sound, though it lacks the 'shake-your-head/body'. 
 Mids timbre of the mids is about the same actually. The 1770's keeps up well here. The mids are fuller (notice a trend?) on the 1770 compared to the T1. Listening to a bit of metal (something I've not done for some time, as the T1's aren't a good fit) on the 1770's left a smile on my face. Plugged in the T1's and listened to the same songs. The 1770's wins, no contest. The sound is thin on the T1, but the 1770 handles it with elegance and POWER. My ears are lusting for my 1770's. They want more power, more metal! 
 The T1's have more sparckle than the 1770. I suspect this is due to the (in)famous (and with Elise, tamed) treblepeak. The 1770's aren't far behind though. It's a good thing though. I'll be using these headphones out of my phone, possibly with a solid state amp in the future, so not having to tame the treble (with tube magic) is a blessing. 
  
  
 From a pure audiophile point-of-view: Which is better? T1, no doubt. 
 From a pure enjoyment point-of-view: Which is better? Debatable. Depends on what music you listen to. 
  
 My test was done using the Feliks Audio Elise amp with a pair of Fivre brown-base 6N7G as drivers and a pair of Mullard 6080 as powers.


----------



## DecentLevi

Interesting observations, Suup. I'm sure they would also be interested in your thoughts on the 1770 thread. 
  
 Next, @Lord Raven would you mind to share a bit more on your de-humming feats? I just need to know about these two things please: 
 * The 8 gauge grounding wire. Can you explain the connection on both ends? You said it's connected to a hose and a power strip or something. But I don't get it, a water hose is mostly rubber - or did you mean you routed it to a metal pipe like in another room? And what is on the other side - your multi-outlet power strip, or just the grounding pin at the end of the Elise power chord?
 * Then what about your battery supply. Are you using this to power the Elise, and how much does this reduce the hum?
  
 I'm just asking for general input, as some of my other amps hum. Thanks and congrats on a hum-free unit!


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Interesting observations, Suup. I'm sure they would also be interested in your thoughts on the 1770 thread.
> 
> Next, @Lord Raven would you mind to share a bit more on your de-humming feats? I just need to know about these two things please:
> * The 8 gauge grounding wire. Can you explain the connection on both ends? You said it's connected to a hose and a power strip or something. But I don't get it, a water hose is mostly rubber - or did you mean you routed it to a metal pipe like in another room? And what is on the other side - your multi-outlet power strip, or just the grounding pin at the end of the Elise power chord?
> ...


 
 Already did that DL!
  
  
 Okay. Something weird is going on, which has happened to me before (about 3 years ago). With my headphones plugged into my amp, I get a hum. This time, it was only in the right cup. If I stand up (my head gets higher compared to Elise), the humming increases in loudness. If I take my head below Elise, i.e. near the ground, the humming disappears. I have a height adjustable table with metal feet (not really feet, they're pretty big). A big round metal cylinder goes from on leg to another below the table, where I can rest my feet (not the intended use though). If I put both of my feet on this metal cylinder, the humming also disappears. 
  
 Definitely a grounding issue. Decided to ground my Elise. Guess what. Complete silence. Incredible. Both the hum in the right cup, and the general hum (that decreases in volume if I get good contact in the sockets) completely disappeared. 
  
 Now I have yet another wire going through my room. I bet my wire tangle is worse than yours @mordy !


----------



## UntilThen

I'll have what you're having. I'm so envious of you guys hum and how you get rid of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 What did you do to kill the hum? How did you ground it exactly?
  
  
  
I can't believe I sat through a whole collection of classical pieces. So enjoyable with Fivre 6A6 and 5998. HE560 is really revealing. Saw that in the HE560 impressions thread, they are still crazy about this headphone. If only they know how good HE560 sounds with Elise and these tubes.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I'll have what you're having. I'm so envious of you guys hum and how you get rid of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A big fat wire from the RCA socket in Elise to a radiator on the other side of the room. It's not terribly pretty, but it'll have to do for now, as it's my best option. Luckily I had already filed off some of the paint.
  
 I really think the 1770's are gorgeous:

 Edit: I need a better camera than the one on this phone..


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> A big fat wire from the RCA socket in Elise to a radiator on the other side of the room. It's not terribly pretty, but it'll have to do for now, as it's my best option.


 

 Ok so in your case, definitely it's a grounding issue. I suppose this is the extreme way of grounding it. Can you use any tubes and adapters now without *ANY* hum?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ok so in your case, definitely it's a grounding issue. I suppose this is the extreme way of grounding it. Can you use any tubes and adapters now without *ANY* hum?


 
 Now that I think about it, I actually don't have any unresolved hum issues. I can use all of my tubes without hum. Not sure what this does for the 2031 combo though. Will have to check some time, but right now I'm just enjoying the music. 
  
 All I have left is to solve my microphony issues.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> A big fat wire from the RCA socket in Elise to a radiator on the other side of the room. It's not terribly pretty, but it'll have to do for now, as it's my best option. Luckily I had already filed off some of the paint.




Yeah! This is what I suggested, as the Denmark AC sockets have no ground wire, avail at the sockets.

I thought at one point you said this didn't help. Suuup...? A thicker wire helped?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> A big fat wire from the RCA socket in Elise to a radiator on the other side of the room. It's not terribly pretty, but it'll have to do for now, as it's my best option. Luckily I had already filed off some of the paint.
> 
> I really think the 1770's are gorgeous:
> 
> Edit: I need a better camera than the one on this phone..


 

 Hey Suuup, your brown base is exactly like mine. I thought you have the all smoke glass version. Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G sounds good too.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Yeah! This is what I suggested, as the Denmark AC sockets have no ground wire, avail at the sockets.
> 
> I thought at one point you said this didn't help. Suuup...? A thicker wire helped?


 
 I'm not sure what happened exactly. To be clear, many danish AC sockets do have the ground wire, it's just that some don't, so I usually tear out the ground pin if there is one, so my device works with all sockets. 
  
 The problem, back when you suggested grounding, was my ECC31 humming. This was due to faulty adapters though. When I got the gold plated ones, this ceased to be an issue.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Hey Suuup, your brown base is exactly like mine. I thought you have the all smoke glass version. Fivre 6A6 and 6N7G sounds good too.


 
 The all smoke glass version? I'm confused.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tracking says Mrs Xu Ling's EL3N adapters are in Denver, which means I might have them Monday.

Absolutely no movement on the actual EL3N's...still says "origin preparing shipment"...?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I'm not sure what happened exactly. To be clear, many danish AC sockets do have the ground wire, it's just that some don't, so I usually tear out the ground pin if there is one, so my device works with all sockets.
> 
> The problem, back when you suggested grounding, was my ECC31 humming. This was due to faulty adapters though. When I got the gold plated ones, this ceased to be an issue.




Gotcha...

Just glad to hear all Hum is abated!! Congrats, Suuup!!


----------



## UntilThen

If you remember the 1st time we saw the brown base on eBay, it didn't have the chrome band. The whole glass area is smoked.


----------



## UntilThen

Monday that is tomorrow, is a public holiday and I'm going to a beach house 2 hours away. So you can test out the adapters JV


----------



## DecentLevi

Suup, how is the pairing of 1770 with Elise? Is it the best closed back you've used?
  
 Yeah UT, I think that's the sign of a good amp - when you start listening to music on it you don't _necessarily _like - just for the quality / experience. And great - enjoy yourself a day off tomorrow. You deserve it!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks DL I hope you'll get Elise soon. I know you will like the sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Fivre 6A6 and 5998 on duty today. Ain't the Fivre lovely, with tax stamp and original boxes. This pair is in incredibly good condition. No pops or crackles. Just pure music. Sound is similar to the Fivre 6N7G but less forward which I like.
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi DL and Everybody Else,
  
 I am hum free, no (my 2nd language), nee, nao, neit, nein, nahin (Urdu my first language), la (Arabic my third language), le, nada hum or noise at all 
  
 LOL
  
 I changed my ground point from the water hose in one of the bathrooms in my apartments to the wire that was coming from the 7 story tall building used to arrest the lightening strikes hahaa boy this is the ultimate ground point anyone could have, the cable running outside my window was a Zero Gauge copper wire and I used a knife to scrape some surface to tie my ground cable LOL
  
 DL, see the last post of mine where I posted pictures, I have put that ground wire in the extension cord's ground and disconnected the internal ground wire that was going to the socket switch, however, all the points on the extension are ground connected internally. I hope you get it.
  
 Ok I fetched the picture for you, see the green cable is going inside the extension board's ground pin, hence grounding the extension cord entirely, rest of my apartment is NOT grounded at all. I checked one of the sockets by opening it.
  
 Now I can connect anything, laptop power supply, 12V 3A heating power supply, there's no hum. The battery (Anker Astro Pro 12V 20,000mAh) was only used to heat the FDD20 tubes, and not to power up the Elise, however, it can power up my DAC and I can use it as a portable DAC during my travels (this was one of the purpose I bought this battery for).
  
 Hope someone will benefit from my troubeshooting experiences LOL I can place Elise however, and whatever way I want to, I can tangle the wires like before and I can turn on WiFi and place my fingers on the tubes and still get nothing LOL
  
 I am ET of Saudi Arabia 
  

  
 Edit: I can finally listen to Classical Music with a lot of silences hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

If you want to know how big a smile I am wearing at the moment, listen to Title02 - The Look of Love on Burt Bacharach - Casino Royale 24-192 
  
 OMG!!!
  
 UT this one is for you, and everyone else!!!!


----------



## DecentLevi

I think you were meaning to post the video?

  
 Thanks for sharin that stellar hum-kill! I'll have to try something like that


----------



## Lord Raven

Exactly 
  
 This is probably the sweetest song ever, even Roberta Flack cannot beat it if she ever had sung it.
  
 If you have hum problems, grounding is the way to go. Invest in a 8 gauge cable and not on different power supplies.
  
 I have noticed that these tubes are very sensitive, if you touch them you can listen to your fingers touching them. So I will not touch my ET fingers a lot now, and I have decided to reduced the vibrations by putting a packing foam under Elise. It is not that soft, and it comes in high end audio boxes that travel long distances LOL I will show you how I will cut and put it under as a mat.
  
 Quote:


decentlevi said:


> I think you were meaning to post the video?
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharin that stellar hum-kill! I'll have to try something like that


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Suup, how is the pairing of 1770 with Elise? Is it the best closed back you've used?
> 
> Yeah UT, I think that's the sign of a good amp - when you start listening to music on it you don't _necessarily_ like - just for the quality / experience. And great - enjoy yourself a day off tomorrow. You deserve it!



I don't have much experience with closed back headphones. They're very good, I can tell you that. I can't compare them to much else though. I've only ever heard the 770's and PSB M4U2 out of a phone.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I changed my ground point from the water hose in one of the bathrooms in my apartments to the wire that was coming from the 7 story tall building used to arrest the lightening strikes hahaa boy this is the ultimate ground point anyone could have, the cable running outside my window was a Zero Gauge copper wire and I used a knife to scrape some surface to tie my ground cable LOL
> Edit: I can finally listen to Classical Music with a lot of silences hehe




Hello LR...

Great job!!

If you really connected to the lightning rod...I hope there is a way to disconnect when unattended (in case of lightning!).

Don''t know how many electrical storms you get in Saudi Arabia, but way better safe. than sorry!

Cheers to SILENCE


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Hi DL and Everybody Else,
> 
> I am hum free, no (my 2nd language), nee, nao, neit, nein, nahin (Urdu my first language), la (Arabic my third language), le, nada hum or noise at all
> 
> ...


 
  

 That's great news LR...yes indeed - _*most*_ hum issues seem to be coming down to grounding, lol! Am really glad you can now enjoy Elise to the full....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...WELL DONE!!
  
 But @JazzVinyl has a good point re. *lightning*, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Take care, mon ami...


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> I think you were meaning to post the video?
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharin that stellar hum-kill! I'll have to try something like that




  
 As memory serves, the Casino Royale soundtrack was originally issued on the RCA Shaded Dog label. It was a particular favorite of Harry Pearson and The Absolute Sound - particularly the Dusty Springfield track. It became an extremely rare and valuable collectible. I had a mint copy, but sadly it went when I sold my entire 2500 lp collection 10 years ago (((


----------



## hypnos1

As a follow-on from the topic of '_lightning bolts', _have just noticed someone over at another thread who's had his Christmas marred somewhat by his blown Senn HD800!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 And so I thought it wouldn't harm to pass on a warning message - I'm sure he won't mind, lol! - ie.... *Never remove a tube shortly after powering off!!!*..._*ALWAYS*_ leave 10-15 mins for the capacitors to discharge before doing so. The _*bang*_ wrecked his headphones - but luckily not his hearing or his amp!!
  
 So, folks....BEWARE!!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Tracking says Mrs Xu Ling's EL3N adapters are in Denver, which means I might have them Monday.
> 
> Absolutely no movement on the actual EL3N's...still says "origin preparing shipment"...?


 
  
 Hi JV. Good news on the adapters...not so good on the tubes, lol! I know Peter is really on the ball his end, so presumably the carrier's tracking info is not of the same calibre! (Don't know if it will be the same carrier as for @UntilThen to Down Under?!). Perhaps Lukasz might be able to shed more light on things?
  
 I only hope they are in fact getting very close to you now, even if the info isn't up-to-date!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> As memory serves, the Casino Royale soundtrack was originally issued on the RCA Shaded Dog label. It was a particular favorite of Harry Pearson and The Absolute Sound - particularly the Dusty Springfield track. It became an extremely rare and valuable collectible. I had a mint copy, but sadly it went when I sold my entire 2500 lp collection 10 years ago (((




Yes, love this original version of the song, and have many a remake of it. It was refreshing to hear the original. 

I have held on to all my records the last 45 years or so...and will be sure to try and find a copy of this one.

Appreciate the info, pctazhp.

And...so sorry you sold your LP collection. I hear that, so often...

Cheers...


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> @hypnos1 I have good news for you! The 1770 doesn't come close to the T1's. This is my final conclusion. Are they good? Most certainly, I do not regret my purchase at all. But they can't really compare to the T1's. It's most likely because they're closed.
> 
> They're no where near as detailed as the T1. Soundstage was actually surprisingly good, but still no where near the T1. Upper bass is a bit boomy. Bass extension beats the T1 though. In general, the bass is 'fuller' than the T1, but not as controlled. The 1770's is more of a 'shake-your-head' kind of bass, where the T1 has a strong focus on controlling the bass, and producing the right sound, though it lacks the 'shake-your-head/body'.
> Mids timbre of the mids is about the same actually. The 1770's keeps up well here. The mids are fuller (notice a trend?) on the 1770 compared to the T1. Listening to a bit of metal (something I've not done for some time, as the T1's aren't a good fit) on the 1770's left a smile on my face. Plugged in the T1's and listened to the same songs. The 1770's wins, no contest. The sound is thin on the T1, but the 1770 handles it with elegance and POWER. My ears are lusting for my 1770's. They want more power, more metal!
> ...


 
  
 Hi S...interesting comments - had me thinking, lol!... Thin sound on the T1? - boy are you, like UT, in for a surprise/shock when you get those EL3Ns in the driver seat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not into HM myself, so I thought I'd just have a go at about the closest I'd want to come to it - ie. "It never Rains" from Dire Straits' 'Love Over Gold' album. And if there's not enough bass, mids and _*power*_ there for you, then I reckon you're a _*lot*_ younger than I thought, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. Either that, or I'm _*much*_ more of a wimp than I thought!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And so now, I'm even _more_ eager to hear others' findings with these tubes!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

My EL3N tracking finally shows them in San Francisco. So, a few days in Customs then, they will be on the last leg of their journey...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...interesting comments - had me thinking, lol!... Thin sound on the T1? - boy are you, like UT, in for a surprise/shock when you get those EL3Ns in the driver seat!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've been sitting here for 5 minutes now, thinking about how to explain it. It Never Rains is a track which I greatly prefer played through my T1's. There's no need for the 'power'. If you don't listen to metal (which I never thought you did), I'm not sure how to explain it. 
  
 A (probably poor) analogy is this:
 The T1 is a concert hall. Open-ended, precise. This is where music sounds the best. Every little detail is cared for. Perfect reverb and everything. 
 The 1770 is a music training room. When the music is playing, the entire room is filled to the brim with music. 
  
 The T1 is _thin_, but it doesn't get 'filled up' with music. It seems to have an endless capacity.
  
  
 This is probably the best I can do. Does it make any sense?
  
 And for the record, I'm in my early 20's. Oh, and I don't listen to metal a lot. It's more of an occasional thing.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> If you want to know how big a smile I am wearing at the moment, listen to Title02 - The Look of Love on Burt Bacharach - Casino Royale 24-192
> 
> OMG!!!
> 
> UT this one is for you, and everyone else!!!!


 
 Thanks LR. Glad, you're finally enjoying real music.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> As memory serves, the Casino Royale soundtrack was originally issued on the RCA Shaded Dog label. It was a particular favorite of Harry Pearson and The Absolute Sound - particularly the Dusty Springfield track. It became an extremely rare and valuable collectible. I had a mint copy, but sadly it went when I sold my entire 2500 lp collection 10 years ago (((


 

 Wow you sold off your entire 2500 LP collection 10 years ago. You must have a very good turntable.


----------



## Suuup

Well, my 1770 are broken. Right driver is rattling. Lots of reports of defect 1770. Seems that Beyerdynamic has been spotty about their quality control with this one.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Wow you sold off your entire 2500 LP collection 10 years ago. You must have a very good turntable.


 
 HAD a nice turntable:  http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/785/index.html#WPqzmom7WcpTT4jY.97


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> HAD a nice turntable:  http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/785/index.html#WPqzmom7WcpTT4jY.97




Wow! That is ONE HECK of a table, pctazhp!!



Don't think *WILD HORSES* could have separated me from *THAT* table


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Well, my 1770 are broken. Right driver is rattling. Lots of reports of defect 1770. Seems that Beyerdynamic has been spotty about their quality control with this one.


 

 Already? Wow. My DT880 Pro was quite robust. I suppose you can get a new one from Beyer.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> HAD a nice turntable:  http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/785/index.html#WPqzmom7WcpTT4jY.97


 

 Wow that's looks high tech. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Want to see mine? Mitsubishi !!!  Linear tracking vertical standing turntable. 

  
  
  
  
  
 ....well I wish...this was mine when I was 20. The only turntable I ever had. Came with the whole Mitsubishi rack system which includes twin cassette deck players, twin meters receiver and floor standing 3 way speakers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Well, my 1770 are broken. Right driver is rattling. Lots of reports of defect 1770. Seems that Beyerdynamic has been spotty about their quality control with this one.




Lots of reports of broken ones? Ugh! Hopefully you get a replacement pair?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Wow that's looks high tech.
> Want to see mine? Mitsubishi !!!  Linear tracking vertical standing turntable.
> 
> ....well I wish...this was mine when I was 20. The only turntable I ever had. Came with the whole Mitsubishi rack system which includes twin cassette deck players, twin meters receiver and floor standing 3 way speakers.




Hear ya UT...there were problems aplenty with the vertical Mitsubishi Tables, so don't be too jealous. They are rarely found in good working condition, these days.

How is the availability of used vinyl down under?


----------



## supersonic395

When ordering one of these, given the hand made nature, do Feliks take payment when it ships or do they take whole payment upfront or is it split i.e. 50% when order placed and then remaining 50% when order shipped?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hear ya UT...there were problems aplenty with the vertical Mitsubishi Tables, so don't be too jealous. They are rarely found in good working condition, these days.
> 
> How is the availability of used vinyl down under?


 

 Used or new turntables are aplenty down under. Any price range. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At one stage I was thinking of an affordable Rega


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> When ordering one of these, given the hand made nature, do Feliks take payment when it ships or do they take whole payment upfront or is it split i.e. 50% when order placed and then remaining 50% when order shipped?




Full payment upfront at time of invoice.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi H1,
  
 Thank you, I am finally back on track  LOL
  
 I have kept a joint in the 8 gauge cable, both ends are tied together with a screw, this was initially used to keep the wife calm cause the wire was coming from the bathroom LOL Then I thought I would unhook this joint when I go away or leave my rig unattended.
  
 I am scared now  LOL
  
 BTW changing Mullard 6080 is so hard, it get so hot and makes Elise hot either. Very hot LOL Good advice thouh.
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> That's great news LR...yes indeed - _*most*_ hum issues seem to be coming down to grounding, lol! Am really glad you can now enjoy Elise to the full....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


hypnos1 said:


> As a follow-on from the topic of '_lightning bolts', _have just noticed someone over at another thread who's had his Christmas marred somewhat by his blown Senn HD800!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi JV,
  
 Thank you 
  
 I have left couple of ways to disconnect the cable actually, either I can remove green wire from the extension cord or simply remove the Elise's power switch from the extension cord.
  
 We have a lot of storms here actually, this is a desert, mostly rocky mountains but we do get a lot of rain per month and I am happy about it.
  
 Cheers to SILENCE in the winters LOL
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello LR...
> 
> Great job!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

My apologies, I brought back a lot of memories, this album is considered as a collector's item among the audiophiles. 
  
 Quote:


pctazhp said:


> As memory serves, the Casino Royale soundtrack was originally issued on the RCA Shaded Dog label. It was a particular favorite of Harry Pearson and The Absolute Sound - particularly the Dusty Springfield track. It became an extremely rare and valuable collectible. I had a mint copy, but sadly it went when I sold my entire 2500 lp collection 10 years ago (((


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT, 
  
 Finally  All the credit goes to you, since you kept pushing me for dead silent Elise. I did not stop my troubleshooting until I got it. I could have settled down with the 12V battery but then again it was not long term solution.
  
 I seriously wish to have hum free results on ECC31 and 6N7G tubes.
  
 My Mazda, Fiver and Visseaux are all in sleeping mode, no adapters to listen to them LOL
  
 Wish me luck 
  
 Cheers!!!!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Thanks LR. Glad, you're finally enjoying real music.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm almost at the beach house when I saw your message. Don't give me credit. I rather have your credit card. 

Well when you move to Australia next year you'll be hum free without resorting to lightning rod.

I'm happy for you now jokes aside. Please do a review of Hd600 with Elise, Geek and FDD20. Waiting. ..

ps...Mazda, Fivre and Visseaux are top of the seafood pile. Think king prawn, crabs, etc. When you get a chance to listen to them you'll know what the fuss is all about.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I'm almost at the beach house when I saw your message. Don't give me credit. I rather have your credit card.
> 
> Well when you move to Australia next year you'll be hum free without resorting to lightning rod.
> 
> ...


 
 Brother, good news and a bad news.
  
 My life time supply of EL3N tubes is here, now the other half of the story, one of the tubes is shattered in its cigar roll during shipment.
  
 I opened every tube to check if they arrived safe, one roll sounded as if there was all glass inside rolling around, so I did not open it to avoid scattering it around.
  
 What should I do in this unfortunate event?
  
 I am not so well these days, caught cold, therefore my hearing is not so precise, got occasional tinnitus, I will review it soon, God willing.
  
 LOL Australia was supposed to be our little secret BRO  Let's hope so, thanks once again..
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Lord Raven

I know Saudi Post sucks, but EL3N tubes arrived within a week's time, the package was very well boxed inside foam bubble, there was no damage to the out box or the tube box.
  
 Most of the cigar rolls felt like they were never ever opened to even check what's inside. This leaves me very sad, my life time supply is one short of EL3N now.


----------



## UntilThen

Nothing to worry about LR. Just let Pete know about the one damaged tube and he will send a replacement. 

If he refused let me know. 

Omw home now. I'm really hoping to get those adapters tomorrow. 

Eh...but you're going to visit me next year 

Get well soon.


----------



## DecentLevi

Umm... guys... don't you see the opportunity? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now the we have one of these cracked open, maybe we can examine what lies beneath - inspect the EL3N's to see what other similar tube may be out there; in case these run out or something.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Used or new turntables are aplenty down under. Any price range.   At one stage I was thinking of an affordable Rega




I was thinking used records, not used decks...


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow! That is ONE HECK of a table, pctazhp!!
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think *WILD HORSES* could have separated me from *THAT* table


 
 Well, there were a lot of wild horses running around in my life back then !!!!  Fortunately, most of them are now back in the stable )))
  
 But my vinyl days are now in the past. I'm getting pretty lazy in my old age and much easier to please )))


----------



## Lord Raven

I heard you guys  Here are some pictures of the internals, they don't look like the FDD20 at all. 
  
 And I would like to take this opportunity to learn about the internals either, people talk about getter and mica and plate and stuff but I don't get it  I do know how tube works on paper and where the anode, cathode and grid should be if drawn but I don't know where things are in real and how to identify them. Please help me out here.
  
 Some of the top stabilizers or something were badly bent, I straightened them to look better. I have noticed that the glass is very brittle, if you try to remove the tube from the adapters you might break the glass or get hurt.However, I have removed FDD20s from their adapters several times, their bases are strong and glass is hard and they look prettier  LOL In my opinion obviously.
  

  

  

  

  

  
 Good news, I talked to Peter about it and he gladly wanted to send me a replacement tube. And guess what DL, he said the same thing LOL I was so sad and he cheered me up by showing me the bright side.
  
 Cheers to the lucky ones  LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

I am listening to this lad and the track "Lonely Woman' is an absolute wonder. I have heard this album a million times and it always brings me peace.
  
 Dedicated to all the Elise lovers out there  A must have in high resolution, mine is Horace Silver - Song For My Father (1964) 2012 HDtracks 24-192-FLAC


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Well, there were a lot of wild horses running around in my life back then !!!!  Fortunately, most of them are now back in the stable )))
> 
> But my vinyl days are now in the past. I'm getting pretty lazy in my old age and much easier to please )))




Hear ya, pctazhp!

Definitely digital is FAR more convenient. In addition to that much of the enjoyment in vinyl listening (for me) is in the use of the "loudness" switch, which is not avail in most headphone listening setups, hence enjoying vinyl via a classic amp and speakers


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I am listening to this lad and the track "Lonely Woman' is an absolute wonder. I have heard this album a million times and it always brings me peace.
> 
> Dedicated to all the Elise lovers out there  A must have in high resolution, mine is Horace Silver - Song For My Father (1964) 2012 HDtracks 24-192-FLAC




Lovely LR!!

Have you compared the hi-rez version of a "regular" CD version to a good copy the vinyl, by any chance?


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> Lovely LR!!
> 
> Have you compared the hi-rez version of a "regular" CD version to a good copy the vinyl, by any chance?


 

 for me, there was no comparison between my vinyl edition and the cd release of this recording which i picked up more than 2 decades ago:
 http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/6638/Louis_Fremaux-Massenet_Le_Cid_Ballet_Music-Vinyl_Record
  
 the vinyl was cut with astounding dynamics -- the cd just didn't have the 'cojones' - but i think this is a rare example where the dynamics on cd are eclipsed by that of the vinyl version.
  
 in all other instances, vinyl just has a tonality or atmosphere that feels more right, more natural (for lack of better terms). but having said this, i've been solely running cd for the last 15+ years now.  i won't go back - i choose convenience over sonics but there's no questioning of which format 'sounds better' (for me).
  
 <edit> a few other examples where the original vinyl eclipses the first edition cd release (i haven't listened to any reissues of either format): david crosby's 'if i could only remember my name'; radka toneff's 'fairytales';  arnold's 'english, scottish & cornish dances' on lyrita label.


----------



## mordy

From reading hi fi magazines for decades it seems that a first class (read very expensive) turntable set-up beats the sound of CDs of the same recording. But, as the cartoon from JV so clearly bears out, the expense and inconvenience is there.
  
 I have some 200(?) LPs that I haven't played in years, and some 300 CDs that I haven't played either for a very long time.
  
 I put all the CDs on my computer on iTunes - the convenience and easy of use outweighs the disadvantages. The sound is quite good as well. Having all the music on the PC, I switched to Musicbee based on Mikelap's recommendation, and this program works well for me.
  
 I have some old home made CDs with vinyl recorded, but I never went all the way in spending on an expensive turntable set-up. The sound that I got wasn't that good - used these CDs mainly in my car.
  
 I spent my money on amps and speakers, worked myself up to Stereophile class B. That was in the 70-90's. At this stage I have realized that you can get great sound for much less than in the past by buying judiciously.
  
 The $240 speakers (3) I have beat the $3300 speakers I used to have. Instead of a $1000 amp I use an old Sony freebie, and then the shining (and rising) star: The ELISE. (At first I had a Little Dot MKIII for four years and learned a lot about tubes, tubes rolling and mods.)
  
 I now have greater musical enjoyment than ever before, and a lot of fun tinkering with the Elise and rolling different tubes.
  
 Except for awaiting the go ahead on the EL3N adapters (and tubes), I am content with glorious wall of sound I have with the perfect blend of analytical and musical. Intoxicating and addictive - I am spending too much time listening.....
  
 And as h1 says, it seems that the FDD20 keeps on improving - I guess that it pulls the 6BL7 along as well. My amp sounds better than ever.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 Ok, I am taking the plunge - here is a picture of one of the snake pits:
  
  




  
 Everything is fine with my listening pleasure, but not through headphones. There is a loud irritating hum at all listening levels. I can work my way around it by using the headphone jack on my integrated amp (no hum), but the SQ is not as good as the Elise.
  
 I tried LR's recommendation and connected a grounding pin on my Monster outlet strip via 8 gauge wire to a grounded copper pipe for the cold water in my house. Curiously enough, the hum increased.
  
 I haven't given up.... Will keep on trying different ways till I get rid of the hum. That said, certain tubes have much less hum, and the headphones are listenable. But I want to use my favorite tubes.
  
 About all the wires. I am happy that my system works and at my age it is too much of an effort to empty out my room and straighten out everything and reorganize all the wires.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> Ok, I am taking the plunge - here is a picture of one of the snake pits:


 
 Oh wow. It seems you have a few more snakes than I. It's not a lot though! Mine is pretty close.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Ok, I am taking the plunge - here is a picture of one of the snake pits:




Mordy!!

That's quite a snarl!!!

Get on that, man!! As few as are really needed and some cable ties to keep things short, man...

Goodness


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> Ok, I am taking the plunge - here is a picture of one of the snake pits:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wowee, m!...Even 'at your age', methinks a New Year's Resolution might just be on the cards, lol?!! (Mind you, I haven't looked behind my equipment rack for quite a while now, I must admit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 And yes, it's quite amazing how long the FDD20s continue to improve...shades of our Voskhods of old, no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I'm glad to say the EL3Ns don't seem to need as long to really shine, so the main wait is going to be for confirmation re. the adapters and then the slow boat from Hong Kong. But I know you are in fact (thankfully!) a very patient guy...more so than I am in fact, while awaiting others' experience with them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Just a quick update on the Radio RTS Transco/Philips 'Red' pairing...(sorry, but just can't help myself!). 
  
 Despite what I said re burn-in time, these are indeed settling in even more nicely with more hours on them...the treble from the Transco especially has developed a deftness and delicacy that is quite astounding, given the competition it has with that phenomenal bass and mids. However, I'm not entirely sure whether that's down purely to the tube or the much greater proportion of pure silver wire (1.3mm diam) to SCCopper I've used in its adapting, lol! Now, of course, I'm gonna have to adapt a 'Red' using these proportions to find out!! (But from my experience with the C3g'S', I suspect the higher silver content could well be providing a goodly amount of the extra 'magic', after needing to _reduce_ said magic a tad by increasing the _copper_ for the Siemens tubes!...). Whatever, the result still confounds me more by the day...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Tragedy, @Lord Raven, re your smashed EL3N...but great news on Peter's response...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (That is _*so*_ weird, given the packing and no damage to the boxes, lol!).


----------



## mordy

Let's see what we got - not everything is connected to the sound system.
  
 1)  Double 14 gauge speaker cables for four speakers (only using two now) = 8 wires
  
 2)  Power cord 50W powered subwoofer
  
 3)  Speaker wire subwoofer (have two - only using one)
  
 4)  Electric cord for desk lamp
  
 5)  Electric cord adding machine
  
 6)  Electric cord NiMH battery charger
  
 7)  Electric cord desk clock
  
 8)  Laptop power cord XP
  
 9)  PC power cord Vista
  
 10) Laptop power cord Win7
  
 11) Hospital grade outlet strip
  
 12) Outlet strip
  
 13) Cord power supply voltage regulator 2.5A
  
 14) Cord power supply voltage regulator 5A
  
 15) Cord power supply voltage regulator 15A
  
 16) Cord office machine
  
 17) Cord Li-ion battery charger
  
 18) Cord 12V 3" fan
  
 All essential, eh?
  
 Wait - what about the sound system? A Monster filtered outlet strip (not shown)  has connections for the Elise, two CD decks, Sony amp, Little Dot amp, Audio Technica turn table and Acurus phono preamp (both in deep hibernation)
  
 And then there are more snake pits for the PC, external hard drives, USB hubs, portable phones, printers, scanner, cable modem, router and PC speakers etc etc.
  
 When the storm Sandy hit we were without power for eight days, Apart from the cold of unheated house, the worst was the acute computer withdrawal syndrome. And this was before the Elise came.....
  
 Maybe time to invest in a generator.....


----------



## aqsw

Well, after switching back to 2031, I noticed distortion after 10 oclock. Going to the oppo pm 3 is the same. They sound very good as long as you dont turn
the volume past 9 oclock.

While this listening level is good for me 85% of the time, it is not good enough.

After going through many posts, I can only assume it is my planar headphones.

So what have I done?


I have put my beloved LCD 2.2s up for sale on Canadian Audio Mart. I am not giving up on this Elise.
When I sell them, I will be getting some 600ohm T1s. These will be my Elise phones, and I still have the Ether C for the LC. Im pretty sure my Pm3s
will go for sale also, as Im not a portable guy and I already have my closed cans for the LC.


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> Well, after switching back to 2031, I noticed distortion after 10 oclock. Going to the oppo pm 3 is the same. They sound very good as long as you dont turn
> the volume past 9 oclock.
> 
> While this listening level is good for me 85% of the time, it is not good enough.
> ...


 
 wait, are you saying that all your planar headphones begin distorting when you raise the vol. level?  or just the pm3?
  
 <edit> if it is just the pm3, then talk to oppo about rma.
 <edit2> if it is not just pm3, then odds are something is amiss with elise; try the default tube set.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> *Good news, I talked to Peter about it and he gladly wanted to send me a replacement tube*. And guess what DL, he said the same thing LOL I was so sad and he cheered me up by showing me the bright side.
> 
> Cheers to the lucky ones  LOL


 
 I knew that will happen. Peter is a gentleman and an honest seller of expensive parts. I or we should be glad to have stumbled upon him.


----------



## aqsw

geetarman49 said:


> wait, are you saying that all your planar headphones begin distorting when you raise the vol. level?  or just the pm3?
> 
> if it is just the pm3, then talk to oppo about rma.





All of them. The Pm3s and the lcds sound good till ten oclock (fairly loud). The Ethers were a trainwreck from the beginning. 
One thing that screwed up my original opinion is that I would always go back to stock drivers. This would for some reason give me a couple more hours on the volume clock.
when changing to 2031 or Mazdas the distortion showsup much sooner.
I hope this helps. I'm a planar guy at heart and this really hurts, but it is what it is.

Im not giving this Elise up though now, since I have it. You haven't ordered yet, so it's good to know what to expect.


----------



## aqsw

Its not the planars. All three of them sound fabulpus one the liquid carbon.


----------



## aqsw

Its not the planars. All three of them sound fabulous with the liquid carbon.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a tragic experience for you aqsw. My planar magnetic HE560 works like it's been specially designed for Elise. I know doubters are saying...how can it be. It's their lost if they put blinkers around their eyes and ears...all I can say is get a HE560 and Elise and hear it for yourself. Wait you have to listen to my setup, which LR will get a chance to shortly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Happy listening and I have a feeling the adapters will arrive today, fingers crossed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@hypnos1 you'll be the 1st to know my findings. Thanks for everything, my friend.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> It's a tragic experience for you aqsw. My planar magnetic HE560 works like it's been specially designed for Elise. I know doubters are saying...how can it be. It's their lost if they put blinkers around their eyes and ears...all I can say is get a HE560 and Elise and hear it for yourself. Wait you have to listen to my setup, which LR will get a chance to shortly.
> 
> Happy listening and I have a feeling the adapters will arrive today, fingers crossed.
> 
> ...



That puts a real damper on my theory, as the 560s are only 35 ohms. I'd rather not sell my lcds if i don't have to. Idont want to buy some 560s and same stuff happens.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> That puts a real damper on my theory, as the 560s are only 35 ohms. I'd rather not sell my lcds if i don't have to. Idont want to buy some 560s and same stuff happens.


 

 Oh gosh I wasn't refering to you aqsw   Sorry if my post make it sound that way mate.
  
 I just happen to read a post in another forum who ridicule my findings of a planar magnetic working well with Elise. In my case a HE560. As in anything audio, the proof is in the listening.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Oh gosh I wasn't refering to you aqsw   Sorry if my post make it sound that way mate.
> 
> I just happen to read a post in another forum who ridicule my findings of a planar magnetic working well with Elise. In my case a HE560. As in anything audio, the proof is in the listening.




I didn't take it that way.

Do your 560s distort with the 2031 and if so, when?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I didn't take it that way.
> 
> Do your 560s distort with the 2031 and if so, when?


 

 I know you wouldn't. You're a champ.
  
 I've never heard distortion on HE560 with 2031 or any of my tubes, whether driver or power. Except for 1635 which we all know shouldn't be used for Elise.
  
 I go up to 12 o'clock on HE560 with Elise maximum. Why? If I go any higher I'll damage my ears for SURE. Now who would want to do that. Same goes for my other tubes with HE560. I simply cannot go higher than 12noon or it's goodbye ears.
  
 With HD650, if I get to higher than 11 o'clock, I can kiss my hearing goodbye.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I just did an interesting experiment. I put the volume setting on Tidal to a minimum and I was able to turn Elise volume to maximum for a satisfying listen without a trace of distortion. Incredible !!!  
  
 This combo never seems to amaze me. 
  
 No hum at max volume on Elise through my HE560. It's pure music.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I know you wouldn't. You're a champ.
> 
> I've never heard distortion on HE560 with 2031 or any of my tubes, whether driver or power. Except for 1635 which we all know shouldn't be used for Elise.
> 
> ...




I would be quite happy with that, but with my setup it's not coming close.
Maybe it is my amp???

Total stock tubes I get distortion about 11-11:30. 
2031 distortion about 10.00
Mazda distortion immediately
This is with lcd 2.2 and pm3.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I would be quite happy with that, but with my setup it's not coming close.
> Maybe it is my amp???
> 
> Total stock tubes I get distortion about 11-11:30.
> ...


 

 aqsw, please read my last post about not getting distortion with Elise volume at max.
  
 Yes I do believe your unit have a problem. I suggest you speak to Lukasz. Strongly suggest.


----------



## UntilThen

LR when you come to my place, you'll see for yourself this... I need to repeat it so everyone doesn't miss it. Not bragging here but simply happy that my Elise is working so flawlessly. I believe anyone's Elise should work this way too. Otherwise please talk to Feliks Audio. 
 *Ok I just did an interesting experiment. I put the volume setting on Tidal to a minimum and I was able to turn Elise volume to maximum for a satisfying listen without a trace of distortion. Incredible !!!  *
  
*This combo never seems to amaze me. *
  
*No hum at max volume on Elise through my HE560. It's pure music.*
  
 Obviously with Tidal volume setting at max, HE560 and Elise needs only 11 o'clock for pure music and no distortions or hums.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> LR when you come to my place, you'll see for yourself this... I need to repeat it so everyone doesn't miss it. Not bragging here but simply happy that my Elise is working so flawlessly. I believe anyone's Elise should work this way too. Otherwise please talk to Feliks Audio.
> [rule]*Ok I just did an interesting experiment. I put the volume setting on Tidal to a minimum and I was able to turn Elise volume to maximum for a satisfying listen without a trace of distortion. Incredible !!!  *




Right and this is why I run 11:00 am to 2:00 pm or even 2:30 pm with my 600 ohm cans. Because I use a DAP @ line level output (you cannot adjust the volume coming out of the DAP when using it at 'line level' output) and that is a considerably lower volume than when using a DAC where you can adjust the output level.


----------



## aqsw

Where is there a volume control on tidal?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Right and this is why I run 11:00 am to 2:00 pm or even 2:30 pm with my 600 ohm cans. Because I use a DAP @ line level output (you cannot adjust the volume coming out of the DAP when using it at 'line level' output) and that is a considerably lower volume than when using a DAC where you can the output level.


 

 Yes JV absolutely. I understand now why you have to turn your volume up so much. Sometimes I do a Tidal upgrade and after that my sound becomes softer and then I realise my Tidal volume after upgrade becomes set at half by default.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mrs Xu Ling's EL3N adapters will be delivered today. The EL3N's are still in San Francisco - says "entering customs"...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Where is there a volume control on tidal?


 

 Right at the bottom right hand corner. It's a slider thingy..just slide it left or right.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Mrs Xu Ling's EL3N adapters will be delivered today. The EL3N's are still in San Francisco - says "entering customs"...


 
 And I was hoping you get to test it before I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I get nightmares thinking my Elise will blow up with those untested adapters and shiny new EL3Ns. Wouldn't it be a tragic if a flawless Elise gets blown up this way?


----------



## aqsw

Wow, that's weird. I don't have that on my tidal, and I have the deluxe payment.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Wow, that's weird. I don't have that on my tidal, and I have the deluxe payment.


 

 I didn't use their browser. I use Tidal apps. Download it.


----------



## UntilThen

Would you believe it? The Postman left a note outside my door to collect a parcel after 4pm. I was at home and didn't hear a knock.
  
 Oh wait a minute. It has a tracking number ending with NL...so it's my 3rd pair of EL3Ns.
  
 So there's still hope the adapters might get here today....  I better not use my headphone this morning


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I didn't use their browser. I use Tidal apps. Download it.




Me too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Would you believe it? The Postman left a note outside my door to collect a parcel after 4pm. I was at home and didn't hear a knock.
> 
> Oh wait a minute. It has a tracking number ending with NL...so it's my 3rd pair of EL3Ns.
> 
> So there's still hope the adapters might get here today....  I better not use my headphone this morning




You must be plannin' on wearin' 'em out FAST, UT!!

Do me a favor, see if Tidal has:

Artist: "Johnny Guitar Watson"
Album "Giant"

If so...listen to:
You Can Stay But The Noise Must Go
and
Baby Face (She Said Do Do Do)

Quiz for ya, if you do


----------



## UntilThen

There is Johnny Guitar Watson on Tidal and Spotify with lots of albums but unfortunately no Giant album. 
  
 Superman Lover is there, listening to it now. I have faith in H1's assessment hence 3 pairs of EL3Ns to last me a very long time.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> There is Johnny Guitar Watson on Tidal and Spotify with lots of albums but unfortunately no Giant album.
> 
> Superman Lover is there, listening to it now. I have faith in H1's assessment hence 3 pairs of EL3Ns to last me a very long time.




Pity!! No Johnny Guitar Watson "Giant" album!! UGH!!

I should think 3 pairs are a 'lifetime supply' 

.


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> Where is there a volume control on tidal?


 

 okay .. i was confused .. & i'm still confused.
 i don't know why but i was under the impression that you were using cd player direct into elise.
 now, it appears you are using pc/laptop as a player into a dac, then into elise?  or just pc/laptop direct to elise?
 if you are still controlling volume with pc, then it's possible that it's output is overdriving the limits of elise's inputs.


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> okay .. i was confused .. & i'm still confused.
> i don't know why but i was under the impression that you were using cd player direct into elise.
> now, it appears you are using pc/laptop as a player into a dac, then into elise?  or just pc/laptop direct to elise?
> if you are still controlling volume with pc, then it's possible that it's output is overdriving the limits of elise's inputs.




Yep, my first thought too, overdriven input is the problem here, @aqsw ...


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> okay .. i was confused .. & i'm still confused.
> i don't know why but i was under the impression that you were using cd player direct into elise.
> now, it appears you are using pc/laptop as a player into a dac, then into elise?  or just pc/laptop direct to elise?
> if you are still controlling volume with pc, then it's possible that it's output is overdriving the limits of elise's inputs.


 

 I know aqsw is using Hegel to Elise. So I would assume he is using PC or iMac to Hegel or a device that streams Tidal.
  
 I use both CD and iMac. CD direct to Elise. iMac through NAD D1050 to Elise and volume setting on iMac to max. Tidal max. Volume setting on NAD makes no difference in my case.


----------



## supersonic395

Looking to buy the Elise very soon and wanted to ask if the stock tubes that it currently comes with provide a rich warm sound with lots of bass? (For use with a beyerdynamic t1)

The current stock tubes are:
Tung Sol 6SN7


----------



## mordy

I am using a laptop as my music source with the volume at max on Musicbee. Routed through my integrated amp into the Elise.
  
 With the stock driver tubes Tung Sol Reissue 6N7GTB there is no hum using my headphones until the Elise volume control is turned up to 12 o'clock. I can only listen through the headphones up to 11 o'clock - after that it is too loud for comfort. And the hum at 12 is so faint that it would be masked by the music, but going higher it would be heard (as tested without playing music).
  
 Using the Elise as a preamp with max volume on the Elise, my speakers only exhibit hum at 70% volume, which is ear splitting in my system.
  
 So I could use the stock tubes comfortably in my system with headphones, but - I don't like the sound compared to my favorite tubes. With those tubes the headphones are unlistenable at any level - too much hum.
  
 What is your opinion? Is there something wrong with my Elise, or something wrong with my setup?


----------



## Oskari

lord raven said:


> I heard you guys  Here are some pictures of the internals, they don't look like the FDD20 at all.
> 
> And I would like to take this opportunity to learn about the internals either, people talk about getter and mica and plate and stuff but I don't get it  I do know how tube works on paper and where the anode, cathode and grid should be if drawn but I don't know where things are in real and how to identify them. Please help me out here.


----------



## aqsw

Using the hegel dac. Streaming from my phone or tablet via bluetooth. Definately not an overdriven input


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Looking to buy the Elise very soon and wanted to ask if the stock tubes that it currently comes with provide a rich warm sound with lots of bass? (For use with a beyerdynamic t1)
> 
> The current stock tubes are:
> Tung Sol 6SN7


 

 I've just put in my stock tubes. Svetlana 6H13C and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue. First with HE560. Sound is rich and warm and luscious. Bass is very good. Lots of it through a headphone where the bass is disciplined through a Schitt Magni 2 Uber and Schitt Modi 2 Uber. This setup sounds very good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I didn't have any other tubes, this will make me happy.
  
 Swap to the HD650. It's even more warm and lush now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass is lovely. Lots. Treble not as clear as through the HE560, but this is musical, organic. I think you'll not be disappointed using Elise and stock tubes with T1.
  
 However as many have pointed out, a swap of better power tubes will make a difference. Better details and clarity.
  
 Stock tubes though exhibit a warmer, darker tone which I do like for music listening without getting too analytical. Others with T1 will give you a better feedback. Again as I said, the stock power tubes aren't the best sounding when you compare with Mullard 6080, Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I am using a laptop as my music source with the volume at max on Musicbee. Routed through my integrated amp into the Elise.
> 
> With the stock driver tubes Tung Sol Reissue 6N7GTB there is no hum using my headphones until the Elise volume control is turned up to 12 o'clock. I can only listen through the headphones up to 11 o'clock - after that it is too loud for comfort. And the hum at 12 is so faint that it would be masked by the music, but going higher it would be heard (as tested without playing music).
> 
> ...


 

 Your Elise and setup sounds perfectly fine to me Mordy. I too don't listen past 12 noon. Not going to damage my hearing. Except when you say that those tubes with headphones are unlistenable at any level - too much hum. I think you're referring to the Mazda 6N7G? I really don't know why since those tubes and adapters work with your speakers through a receiver but not direct to your headphones.


----------



## Suuup

supersonic395 said:


> Looking to buy the Elise very soon and wanted to ask if the stock tubes that it currently comes with provide a rich warm sound with lots of bass? (For use with a beyerdynamic t1)
> 
> The current stock tubes are:
> Tung Sol 6SN7


 
 While the stock tubes are not terrible at all (I used them exclusively for the first couple of weeks), you will get much better sound if you swap to some better tubes. Powers especially. 
  
 Better power tubes can be had for cheap. You don't have to buy expensive ones. 
  
 My suggestion: Buy Elise and listen to her for a week or so. Then come back here and tell us if you want the sound to be clearer, warmer, darker or whatever you want. We will point you in the right direction! 
  
 I have a pair of T1's myself, as does Hypnos1. In my opinion, T1 + Elise should've been a package deal.


----------



## geetarman49

aqsw said:


> Using the hegel dac. Streaming from my phone or tablet via bluetooth. Definately not an overdriven input


 

 do you have access to another hp amp that you can use instead of elise?  if you're getting distortion regardless of tube set, then something seems to be amiss with elise.
 here's where a 'scope and signal generator would be really handy.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Your Elise and setup sounds perfectly fine to me Mordy. I too don't listen past 12 noon. Not going to damage my hearing. Except when you say that those tubes with headphones are unlistenable at any level - too much hum. I think you're referring to the Mazda 6N7G? I really don't know why since those tubes and adapters work with your speakers through a receiver but not direct to your headphones.


 
 This is something I've been wondering about. 2 weeks ago I was visiting my dad, and I got a chance to listen to his speaker system. I listened to the Love Over Gold album through Tidal. Through my headphones there has always been some noise. Through his speakers there was none. I tried turning it way up, but there was no noise. 
  
 I don't know if it's related to Mordys findings or not, but it still got me wondering. What is the reason? No matter what headphone I use, no matter which amp I use, no matter what DAC I use. There is noise. But through his speakers? No noise. This I've started saving up for a good pair of speakers now. I want a noise-free Telegraph Road! If you want to test it, the noise is very noticeable at about 5:20. I suggest getting a good recording of it, to make sure it's not Youtube distorting it. 
  
 Also, does the beginning of Telegraph Road distort for everyone else too? If I crank up the volume (to levels I will only submit myself to for a few 10-seconds) the high pitched instrument distorts heavily.


----------



## Suuup

@aqsw Do you have the possibility of trying out a high-impedance can in your Elise? I'm not so sure it's actually your headphones that is the cause, although I could be wrong of course.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> While the stock tubes are not terrible at all (I used them exclusively for the first couple of weeks), you will get much better sound if you swap to some better tubes. Powers especially.
> 
> Better power tubes can be had for cheap. You don't have to buy expensive ones.
> 
> ...


 
 I have to smile at that statement but you speak the truth except in my case I would have said HE560 + Elise should've been a package deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No matter I think Elise can be a package deal with several headphones or speakers. We obviously have happy customers.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> This is something I've been wondering about. 2 weeks ago I was visiting my dad, and I got a chance to listen to his speaker system. I listened to the Love Over Gold album through Tidal. Through my headphones there has always been some noise. Through his speakers there was none. I tried turning it way up, but there was no noise.
> 
> I don't know if it's related to Mordys findings or not, but it still got me wondering. What is the reason? No matter what headphone I use, no matter which amp I use, no matter what DAC I use. There is noise. But through his speakers? No noise. This I've started saving up for a good pair of speakers now. I want a noise-free Telegraph Road! If you want to test it, the noise is very noticeable at about 5:20. I suggest getting a good recording of it, to make sure it's not Youtube distorting it.
> 
> Also, does the beginning of Telegraph Road distort for everyone else too? If I crank up the volume (to levels I will only submit myself to for a few 10-seconds) the high pitched instrument distorts heavily.


 

 I'm listening to Telegraph Road now. If you know me before Head-Fi, you'll know I'm a Dire Straits fan. My avatar in the car sound forum is a silhouette picture of Mark with a led headband.
  
 The start of this track is so quiet that when I first listen to it, I thought my volume was off, so I turn it up only to be blasted when the music comes on. I can hear the lightning and thunder rumbling and some haunting sound. I feel like I was actually walking on Telegraph Road.
  
 Again this track is silent on both headphone (volume at 12) and speakers for me. I'm still on stock tubes for more than an hour. Sounded so good I forget to change them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 My old avatar... 

  
 ps:- Elise (with stock tubes) + HE560 and Dire Straits should've been a package deal.


----------



## UntilThen

Have HD650 on now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@DecentLevi you hearing this? Elise (with stock tubes) + HD650 and Dire Straits is the real deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know you have the HD650. You're in for many sleepless months, I kid you not.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I have to smile at that statement but you speak the truth except in my case I would have said HE560 + Elise should've been a package deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 UT, you have to listen to a T1 on Elise at some point. It really is unbelievable. @hypnos1 will say the same thing, I'm sure!


untilthen said:


> I'm listening to Telegraph Road now. If you know me before Head-Fi, you'll know I'm a Dire Straits fan. My avatar in the car sound forum is a silhouette picture of Mark with a led headband.
> 
> The start of this track is so quiet that when I first listen to it, I thought my volume was off, so I turn it up only to be blasted when the music comes on. I can hear the lightning and thunder rumbling and some haunting sound. I feel like I was actually walking on Telegraph Road.
> 
> ...


 
 What about at 5:20 - there should only be a piano.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> UT, you have to listen to a T1 on Elise at some point. It really is unbelievable. @hypnos1 will say the same thing, I'm sure!
> What about at 5:20 - there should only be a piano.


 

 I will !!! You're getting me all excited with T1 now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 5:20 onwards (with HD650) I hear only the piano, soft initially then gradually getting louder (no distortion). Volume at 11 o'clock for HD650 and when the drums kicks in, I almost fainted. This is sonic treat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Omg bass is unbelievable and this is with stock tubes.
  

  
 Brothers In Arms track now and it's way past lunch time, I still haven't eaten. This addiction is good to keep you slim that's for sure.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I will !!! You're getting me all excited with T1 now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure what to say UT. How can there be no noise in your system, but there is in mine? It doesn't matter what tubes I use. There has always been this noise. Did you play it from Tidal? Is it the remaster or not the remaster?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I'm not sure what to say UT. How can there be no noise in your system, but there is in mine? It doesn't matter what tubes I use. There has always been this noise. Did you play it from Tidal? Is it the remaster or not the remaster?


 
 Don't say anything. Just book a ticket and fly straight to Sydney now !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm listening through Tidal HiFi subscription which is 16/44.1khz ... Telegraph Road on 'Love Over Gold' (Remastered) album.
  
 Oh yes there's some hissing sound...just listen to it again but so soft if you didn't tell me I wouldn't have heard it and then only when my volume is at 12 for HD650 !!! Had to turn it down pretty quickly or my hearing's gone.
@Suuup read this last statement.
  
 ...and heard it on HE560 now with volume at 3pm at 5:20 onwards....I even turn volume to max for a few secs there. Very soft hiss ...would not have pick up if you didn't mention it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Don't say anything. Just book a ticket and fly straight to Sydney now !!!
> 
> I'm listening through Tidal HiFi subscription which is 16/44.1khz ... Telegraph Road on 'Love Over Gold' (Remastered) album.
> 
> ...



Well this means my system is working as it should. It also means, however, that the problem is the recording. Can't do anything about that. There was no hiss at all when listening through speakers. Destructive interference? Does the hiss just drown out? I know my dad has very good speakers, so I'm not sure what's the cause.

UT I would, but I do not have the time nor the finances to do this right now. It's definitely on my bucket list though.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Well this means my system is working as it should. It also means, however, that the problem is the recording. Can't do anything about that. There was no hiss at all when listening through speakers. Destructive interference? Does the hiss just drown out? I know my dad has very good speakers, so I'm not sure what's the cause.


 

 Yes hiss drowns out when the music picks up tempo. I wouldn't have turn my volume to max except this quiet passage. Incredible. No hum at max. Really soft to detect and the hiss was for a very short duration.
  
 Money For Nothing is a loud track...I turn my volume to 1pm ...not wise...never try it again. TOO LOUD. The planar magnetics are literally dancing now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Elise is still cool after 4 hours at loud volume. Even the transformer.
  
 Alright heading out to the Post Office now. Hoping the adapters are there with the pair of EL3Ns.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Any of the ST shape great sounding tubes (Mazda 6N7G, Mullard ECC31, Philips FDD20) produce a marked hum in my headphones at any listening level. Much less so with the stock 6SN7 tubes where I can use my headphones without problems. And using the 6BL7 tubes there is even less hum - I can't hear it unless I turn up the Elise volume control to 2 o'clock.
  
 Right now I am using my headphones with the TS 6SN7GTB and Mullard 6080 and the sound is very pleasing. As said above, if I hadn't been exposed to greater clarity, detail and punch, I would have been quite happy with this.
  
 Switched to the 6BL7GTA Westinghouse now - better than the 6SN7GTB; more lively with more detail. Not surprisingly, the volume I need is the same as the 6SN7 - the 6BL7 has a mu of 19 and the 6SN7 a mu of 20.
  
 In the interest of science (art?) I tried a BL/SN combo - not bad at all, better than two Westinghouse 6BL7 or two TS 6SN7. As a matter of fact, quite good. But I miss my Swiss, I mean Italian FDD20. Alas, the FDD20 is not working with my headphones at the moment because of the hum issue.
  
 But I am not giving up....
  
 For the time being my favorite speaker tubes are the FDD20/6BL7, and for headphones 6SN7/6BL7.


----------



## UntilThen

This is starting to look like a stock pile but no adapters yet....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Any of the ST shape great sounding tubes (Mazda 6N7G, Mullard ECC31, Philips FDD20) produce a marked hum in my headphones at any listening level. Much less so with the stock 6SN7 tubes where I can use my headphones without problems. And using the 6BL7 tubes there is even less hum - I can't hear it unless I turn up the Elise volume control to 2 o'clock.
> 
> ...


 
 G'day Mordy !!! Thanks for a detail description of your situation.
  
 It's a shame the great sounding tubes (Mazda 6N7G, Mullard ECC31 and Philips FDD20) are humming with your headphones. They are the best sounding drivers I've ever heard on Elise with either of my headphones. They also are the best with my speakers.
  
 Nevertheless, yes don't give up. One day you'll get it to work with your headphones without hum and I really wish for that day for you.
  
 It's important that we find the tubes that works for us as individuals and I'm glad you found them in FDD20/6BL7 with your speakers and for headphones with 6SN7/6BL7.
  
 Looks like my tube rolling isn't done yet until I try the 6BL7.... after the EL3Ns ...which may make me sell all my other driver tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It was you that make me buy the Mazda 6N7G. Your glowing report. I have to agree fully they are absolutely amazing. They are indeed the same as the Joybringers aka the Visseaux 6N7G. My comparison listening sessions with those 2 produce an almost identical sound, with perhaps a slight hint of more liveliness in the Mazda. The ECC31 are still one of my favourite drivers. Needless to say the FDD20 knocks me out with their sound.
  
 Oh before I forget. With C3G, did you get hum with your headphones? I remember you love the C3G sound very much at one stage.
  
 Cheers and happy listening.


----------



## UntilThen

When I saw this photo I thought it look a bit like Elise. It's $3000 used in the local classified. It's not a headphone tube amp.
Audion Silver Sterling KT120 Integrated Valve Amp. ​Single ended design and Class A operation making 24 watts per channel. French amplifier built by the hand of one man as are all of Audion amplifiers.
  

  
 For headphone listening, I much prefer Elise. I have on the ECC31 and 5998 now. I must admit I don't use my ECC31s much. It's not that they don't sound good. It's too many choices. I don't tube roll as much now. I'll settle on a pair of driver and power tubes and be done for a day now. In the past, it's like changing 5 to 6 times a day. Being mindful of the sockets in Elise too. Too much tube rolling will certainly wear it out fast.
  
 ECC31 and 5998 with HE560 does sound really good. I'm listening at a really low volume but it's so clear. The piano pieces I'm listening to now comes across so clearly at 8 o'clock on the volume dial. The joy of listening at 3:30am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These tubes combo does seem obscenely expensive though. I can get equally good sound from other drivers in my inventory at a much cheaper cost. Notable ones are the Mazda 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G brown base and FDD20s. No complaints though because at this level, all these drivers sound very good. It's just a variation. It's amazing how a change of tubes can produce a very subtle change in sound. The beauty of a tube amp.


----------



## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> Looking to buy the Elise very soon and wanted to ask if the stock tubes that it currently comes with provide a rich warm sound with lots of bass? (For use with a beyerdynamic t1)
> 
> The current stock tubes are:
> Tung Sol 6SN7


 
  
 Hi s395...congrats on going for the Elise - pretty well anything that goes into her sounds good, lol! Congrats also on the T1s...a _*perfect*_ choice for this amp.
  
 Now then - "lots of bass"?...this means different things to different folks, I fear. Often, there's a bit of a gap (to say the least!) between _quantity_ and _quality_, and can be a subjective minefield! Even 'impact' can be a bit tricky, along with 'speed', control, detail etc....all depending on one's own hearing and listening experience, of course!
  
 And so really, you will probably need to hear a good few different tube presentations before discovering what is best for _*you*_, because that could be quite different to what anyone else might prefer. @Suuup's suggestion is a very good one...
 I also suggest you study very carefully the (many!) posts here, and if possible, in the original Elise thread. This will take a good bit of time, I know, but I'm sure will be worth the effort.
 A good few of us have moved away from the stock tubes - especially the 6SN7 drivers - but they do have their own particular hurdles, which may not appeal to everyone...these are well covered in more recent posts. For those who don't wish to go this route, there is a mountain of info over at the relevant 6SN7 threads here at head-fi.
  
 Whichever direction you choose, there's a good bunch of guys here who are only too willing to share their knowledge and help out if at all possible.
  
 Hope this helps just a little bit more...the journey can indeed be quite a long - but interesting! - one. (A certain amount also depends on your _wallet_, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 Best wishes for your own journey...


----------



## Oskari

What I got for Xmas:
  
 a) an Elise
 b) a cold.
  
 Thanks to b) and stuffed up hearing, a) saw little use other than "Yes, it works" over Xmas.
  
 Today's the first day I went out the door; briefly, it's a "fresh" -8°C. The amp still has the stock tubes but sounds great.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> What I got for Xmas:
> 
> a) an Elise
> b) a cold.
> ...


 
 Really Oskari? Like really really? You not kidding me right? Are you very sure you're not kidding me? Are you 100% sure? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I almost fainted seeing this news.


----------



## Oskari

It was an offer I couldn't refuse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The amp's preowned.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> It was an offer I couldn't refuse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats !!! Preowned, preloved what does it matter. It only means it's burn in and ready to go. Now roll out your hundreds of tubes and give an impression of each.


----------



## Suuup

I finally went and picked up my EL3N after a week (haven't had the time). They are beautiful!
  


  
 Waiting for reports about the adapters. Might make my own in the mean time. 
  
 I'm also trying to make this little bugger work - having a hard time of it!

 I'm feeding it 12.3 V, but I cannot make it output less than 10.9? If I press the lower button more, it goes up to 13.9. I need to go all the way down to 2.5V. Any ideas?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I finally went and picked up my EL3N after a week (haven't had the time). They are beautiful!
> 
> Waiting for reports about the adapters. Might make my own in the mean time.


 
 Nice tubes ... and boxes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish the wordings are etched instead of chalk written on. It will disappear quickly. The red band will go eventually but at least you'll have a smoke glass tube. I'm thinking of spray painting mine completely red. !!!
  
 Keep your fingers and toes cross for me.. might arrive today. Left Hong Kong on the 19th...today's 30th. Should be here by now.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Nice tubes ... and boxes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Crossed! Any idea about the step-down converter?


----------



## UntilThen

You mean the voltage regulator? It came a while back. I posted a picture. It's sitting there in a corner. I have no use for it. I might connect it and turn it into a clock.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You mean the voltage regulator? It came a while back. I posted a picture. It's sitting there in a corner. I have no use for it. I might connect it and turn it into a clock.


 
 But how do I make it go down to 2.5V? I can make it go from 12.3 to either 10.9 or 13.9. Not lower, not higher. Does yours work?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> But how do I make it go down to 2.5V? I can make it go from 12.3 to either 10.9 or 13.9. Not lower, not higher. Does yours work?


 

 LOL mine's still sealed, how would I know. Ask JV or Mordy who might have one.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 Why did you quote me in this?
  
 LOL Mine is the same, I turned Elise up all the way and lowered the volume on my DAC (which is not line level cause when I increase volume, the volume on RCA out also changes and therefore in the Geek forum it is advised to keep the volume to the top while using it as a preamp) and there is NO, NADA, NEIN distortion or hiss or hum. Blessed, I am.
  
 This testing was done with my favorite combo Philips Miniwatt FDD20s 
  
 You need to think of something else that we would do at your place  LOL Maybe we should go out and look around Sydney, we have identical Elise LOL I just need to borrow your headphones though hehe... 
  
 I'll bring my DAC, we can test what is better  NAD or GEEK.
  
 It's definitely pure music coming through the ELISE.
  
 Cheers!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> LR when you come to my place, you'll see for yourself this... I need to repeat it so everyone doesn't miss it. Not bragging here but simply happy that my Elise is working so flawlessly. I believe anyone's Elise should work this way too. Otherwise please talk to Feliks Audio.
> *Ok I just did an interesting experiment. I put the volume setting on Tidal to a minimum and I was able to turn Elise volume to maximum for a satisfying listen without a trace of distortion. Incredible !!!  *
> 
> *This combo never seems to amaze me. *
> ...


 
  
  
 EDIT> By the way, I have a question.
  
 What is the volume that sounds best on ELISE? Also, why do we need to do this testing, when we will never use ELISE at its full volume? LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

I received a single ECC31 tube from UK this week, the seller said it is in very good shape and tests well. When I received the tube, the guide pin was glued to the base and it came off in one or two uses and the base wasn't tight either. The tube looked heavily used, I judged it from the top, above the cooling fin there was chrome traces. 
  
 I am not feeling happy about it, if I insert the tube wrong, my Elise will be gone.
  
 Can I launch a return or refund request on eBay? I feel betrayed and cheated. I hate it!!!!
  
 Looks like I have already launched a return request, let's hope there is a sensible person on the other hand. Wish me luck!


----------



## UntilThen

I can read your mind so don't think bad things about me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Congrats on getting Philips Miniwatt FDD20 going. So any impressions? What about the ECC31 or 2031?
  
 Here's a preview of Sydney. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 
  
 Just saw your post on ECC31. Yes return it. 'Not as described' is the reason and a valid one.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I received a single ECC31 tube from UK this week, the seller said it is in very good shape and tests well. When I received the tube, the guide pin was glued to the base and it came off in one or two uses and the base wasn't tight either. The tube looked heavily used, I judged it from the top, above the cooling fin there was chrome traces.
> 
> I am not feeling happy about it, if I insert the tube wrong, my Elise will be gone.
> 
> ...


 
 LR, my ECC31 has a broken guide pin as well (no guide pin at all in fact). It still works without any problems. Also, I wouldn't judge the tube based on the insides. I have tubes, which I know to be NOS, that looks just like that.


----------



## UntilThen

I can sell you mine in mint condition and with guide pins


----------



## Lord Raven

Brother, I don't have a turntable, I have never heard a fully analog system entire my life  
  
 I have always been a download guy, working with formats, which sounds better is a debate that I have gotten over way before and I really don't get into these discussion anymore, at least I try to avoid.
  
 I believe, all my music should be on high-resolution files, recently I have upgraded my entire library to DSD  Yes, you heard it loud and clear LOL A lot of stuff is on 24 bits and various sampling rates like 44.1/88.2/176/192 and so on.
  
 I feel that a good recording, no matter if it is CD or high-resolution, it will always sound better. I have heard people complain about their 24/192 albums to sound crappy. I only collect what sounds better.
  
 And last but not the least, this is what I say to myself and other, the detail should be there even if you cannot hear it LOL
  
 Listening is subjective, we all have different ears, different hearing, and hearing does not stay the same through out the day, so is our vision. So I really cannot comment on this, I have compared and I could not listen to much of a difference on my previous headphones, now that I have my first decent headphones (HD600, currently breaking in) I will have to do this comparison again.
  
 On my car audio system, Focal Utopia 3-way Active, I have come to a point where is something does not sound good, I blame the recording not my sound system, it is super analytical and revealing, it brings the crap out of a low quality formats and recordings that I just remove those albums from my 64 GB memory cards LOL
  
 I would say, keep your files in high resolution, cause, with data compression, a lot of phase and detail information is lost. You don't feel that spatial sound on mp3 at all when compared with higher resolutions.
  
 These days DSD is the highest possible audio format, and I have given in to it, and I am fully DSD compatible now with my Geek Pulse SFi, it has precision of Femto Clocks, and it can do DSD64 and DSD128, the highest possible resolutions, the music is so rich and clear that I might myself to feel if I am not dreaming :O LOL
  
 Cheers!
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Lovely LR!!
> 
> Have you compared the hi-rez version of a "regular" CD version to a good copy the vinyl, by any chance?


----------



## Lord Raven

Yes, he is a gentleman, I am happy to deal with him. I know he has a lot of expensive stuff, I only wanted a pair of capacitors and later I discovered that I could not afford them. LOL
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> I knew that will happen. Peter is a gentleman and an honest seller of expensive parts. I or we should be glad to have stumbled upon him.


 
   
 Brother, after Philips Miniwatt FDD20s, I don't need anything, honestly LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One thing is for sure, even FDD20s don't come closer to the detail I get with my Focal Utopia No.7  Damn, that is some Galactic level of audio.. I know I would probably want HD800 to listen to that kind of detail and intimacy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> I can sell you mine in mint condition and with guide pins


----------



## Lord Raven

Brother, I feel betrayed cause none of this was mentioned in the ad  I will probably return it cause this is my 4th tube, the 3rd one almost looked as new as UT's  The 1st and 2nd were also good, I use this pair but the adapters are not good, so I am waiting for Golden ones to enjoy some 6N7G tube types. I also got Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G and a Fiver 6N7GT laying around, waiting to be played.
  
 Right now, all I want to play is FDD20s and HD600 to break them in, I run them song to song so that I listen to them while they break in, these are that good  I don't want to waste hours while burning them, I want to enjoy each minute with them. For these, I can seller every single tube in my closet. I am in heaven, besides these are dark, dead quiet, and super detailed, there is everything all I ever wanted. Damn it, I can't wait for my phones or tubes to break in LOL
  
 I'll pile these tubes next, EL3N are already piled up  I want a life time, after life time supply of these tubes...
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> LR, my ECC31 has a broken guide pin as well (no guide pin at all in fact). It still works without any problems. Also, I wouldn't judge the tube based on the insides. I have tubes, which I know to be NOS, that looks just like that.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi H1,
  
 I was surprised to know this too, there was no damage to the outer package, or tube boxes. Tube was shattered, as if it was crushed.
  
 Can a tube break in low pressure, during a flight? This was my thought, I asked Peter but he did not say anything.
  
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> ps. Tragedy, @Lord Raven, re your smashed EL3N...but great news on Peter's response...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

lord raven said:


> The tube looked heavily used, I judged it from the top, above the cooling fin there was chrome traces.


 
  


suuup said:


> I wouldn't judge the tube based on the insides. I have tubes, which I know to be NOS, that looks just like that.


 
  
 Yep. That's not a sign of a heavily used tube. The "silver" got there when the getter was flashed.


----------



## Lord Raven

Thank you so much brother, now I know what is located where 
  
 I need to google about Mica and Getter next. Cooling fins are new to me either.
  
 Thanks once again!
  
  
 Quote:


oskari said:


>


 
  
 I did not get it, when getter was flushed?


oskari said:


> Yep. That's not a sign of a heavily used tube. The "silver" got there when the getter was flashed.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL 
  
 Thank you very much, I worked hard for it, and you know it 
  
 It is too early to present an impression, my headphoens are only barely used, I need to break them in as DL said they take abour 500 hours or so LOL Moreover, FDD20s just started to work for me, they need some time to fully blossom, I will wait for 10-20 days before I say something.
  
 ECC31 and 2031, I have tried 2 x ECC31 and the adapters I got were humming, now that I am fully grounded the adapters/tubes don't hum if I touch them but there is a constant hum on the pair. Is this normal or are these tubes also dead quiet with golden adapters? I need to know..
  
 I have started the return request, the ad did not say anything about the guide pin or the base, I would never have bought it in the first place, what a drag.
  
 LOL Sydney is awesom, but you need to show me around for certain  Otherwise I will only hand around the city center (CBD I think) on foot  haha
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> I can read your mind so don't think bad things about me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Now roll out your hundreds of tubes and give an impression of each.


 
  
 You should not expect too much of my tube stash. The progress will be slow anyway.
  
 There is the question of a dac, too. The amp's connected to the music server with a sub-€20 usb interface/dac at the moment. This is "slightly" suboptimal.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi LR, good to see you getting excited about Elise with FDD20 and HD600. You should be. What power tubes are you using for this setup?
  
 Well you cannot compare a < $2000 head-fi gear with your Focal Utopia No. 7. That is enough to drain an oil well. BUT you can....as you said with a TOTL headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well it's a different experience. A good car sound system is tune for perfect imaging, tonal balance and soundstage. Soundstage extends to the tip of your car bonnet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to mention a subwoofer that doubles up as a massager. You sound proof your car I hope. 
  
 No need 500 hours on HD600. 150 hours and you will feel the difference. 
  
 All my tubes (that includes 6N7G, 6A6, ECC31) and their adapters (whether black or gold) are hum free. Total silence. Not even a hiss or buzz, except on that recording of Telegraph Road, which I think they introduce it to the music, to make it more eerie. I'm hoping to hear that from you in due course.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> You should not expect too much of my tube stash. The progress will be slow anyway.
> 
> There is the question of a dac, too. The amp's connected to the music server with a sub-€20 usb interface/dac at the moment. This is "slightly" suboptimal.


 

 Welcome to club Elise Oskari. But you don't need any welcome. You were here on day one when they were discussing the design. You are part of Elise's creation.
  
 What's this I hear about tube stash? I see a pair of GEC 6AS7G and ECC32 at the bottom of the pile I'm sure. I also see a pair of TS black round plate. Some juicy Sylvania 6SN7W. 
  
 USB DACs are cheap and good these days. My local forum classifieds have them for sale regularly, some as low as $100. Just get a used Dragonfly 1.2 for the time being.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  





  
 What we have here is my headphone totally hum free setup. There is no hum with my headphones or speakers at any listening level. Yes, there are four 6080 tubes in use.
  
 After some thinking I was wondering if there a relationship between the amplification factor (mu) of the driver tubes and the level of hum I get, especially when listening through headphones. The worst hum I get is with the 6N7G, ECC31 and FDD20 tubes, rendering my headphones unlistenable.
 Using speakers I do not have hum problems at normal to very loud listening levels. Only at too loud levels (without playing music) I hear a marked hum with these tubes.
  
 Tried various driver tubes with a mu from 2-70. As a rule, the higher the mu, the more hum. The 6SL7 (mu70) had a constant low level hum with the headphones, masked by the music except at quiet passages. The C3g (mu40), 6SN7  had a hum at very loud volume with the headphones, but only well beyond listenable levels.
  
 The ST tubes 6N7G, ECC31 and FDD20 with a mu around 33 are unlistenable with my headphones due to pronounced hum.
  
 The 6BL7 (mu19) and 6SN7 (mu20) do not exhibit hum with headphones at normal listening levels. With speakers there is only hum at too high levels.
  
 Enter the 6080s - NO HUM at any level, headphones or speakers. To get good volume, I need to keep the Elise volume at max or almost max, and the same with my integrated amp.
  
 It seems that that there is relationship between the amplification factor and the hum in my system, but the Shoulder Type ECC31 family tubes have much more hum than the tubes with higher mu. Don't understand why....
  
 If I want to listen to my headphones I can choose from a number of tubes, but not my favorite European ones (6N7G, ECC31, FDD20. The 6080 quad sounds pretty good, but is lacking the magic of the best tubes. Don't take me wrong, they sound quite good, but so does almost anything with the Elise....
  
  
  
 What's next? A battery powered FDD20? Would a 12V automotive battery do? Then I have to find a a 6V automotive or motorcycle battery for the Mazda 6N7G and ECC31. Is it worth the effort?
  
 Now I am again listening to the FDD/BL combo - this it IT for the time being.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> I've just put in my stock tubes. Svetlana 6H13C and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue. First with HE560. Sound is rich and warm and luscious. Bass is very good. Lots of it through a headphone where the bass is disciplined through a Schitt Magni 2 Uber and Schitt Modi 2 Uber. This setup sounds very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


suuup said:


> While the stock tubes are not terrible at all (I used them exclusively for the first couple of weeks), you will get much better sound if you swap to some better tubes. Powers especially.
> 
> Better power tubes can be had for cheap. You don't have to buy expensive ones.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi s395...congrats on going for the Elise - pretty well anything that goes into her sounds good, lol! Congrats also on the T1s...a _*perfect*_ choice for this amp.
> 
> Now then - "lots of bass"?...this means different things to different folks, I fear. Often, there's a bit of a gap (to say the least!) between _quantity_ and _quality_, and can be a subjective minefield! Even 'impact' can be a bit tricky, along with 'speed', control, detail etc....all depending on one's own hearing and listening experience, of course!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you all for your detailed and helpful responses and for the awesome welcoming vibe 
  
 I'm just waiting to hear back from Feliks as I contacted them yesterday so hopefully they'll be in touch soon!
  
 And yup, I'll listen to it as stock for a good length of time and then ask for help with the tube rolling for a more particular sound.
  
 Edit: @Hynos1 I have read the original thread and all of this one too  I did a lot (perhaps too much) research before settling on the Elise.
  
 Btw, has anyone heard the Espressivo? I take it, it doesn't have the juice to get the most out of 600ohm headphones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> And last but not the least, this is what I say to myself and other, the detail should be there even if you cannot hear it LOL




Hello LR...

Your logic, escapes me.

You say you have never owned a table and don't get into Analog vs Digital debate...no problem. 

I wasn't trying to debate you, just wondered if you had compared that Horace Silver song, you pointed us to, in the two formats. 
Many times, I find that when an old recording like that one, that was originally recorded and issued in an analog format, the magic is lost somewhat, when it gets released in a digital format. 
No matter how many ones and zeros in your digital file, it's does not sound as warm and natural as a clean copy of the original vinyl.

Also...you say you have never heard Analog music but..if you have ever been in a room where someone is playing an acoustic guitar...that is pure analog 

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Omg Mordy I'm in tears !!!
  
 4 6080??? More like 2 Mullard 6080 as powers and GE 6AS7GA as drivers. Really? Didn't know you can do that but amazing you're getting good sound from it.
  
 So I'm thinking now...perhaps, perhaps we can use 4 EL3Ns in Elise. @hypnos1  are you listening? I want four EL3Ns in it.
  
 Battery powered 12V...that should solve your hum for good I think.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Btw, has anyone heard the Espressivo? I take it, it doesn't have the juice to get the most out of 600ohm headphones.


 
 I spoke to the gentleman who started the Expressivo thread on Head-Fi. He's happy with it driving HD650. Not sure how it will handle 600ohms.
  
 With your T1 which is TOTL, you should be getting Elise no doubt. The tube types around which it's design for are much better than those you find in Expressivo. There are only a handful of Elise owners but you see most of them using high end headphones and are very happy with it.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> I spoke to the gentleman who started the Expressivo thread on Head-Fi. He's happy with it driving HD650. Not sure how it will handle 600ohms.
> 
> With your T1 which is TOTL, you should be getting Elise no doubt. The tube types around which it's design for are much better than those you find in Expressivo. There are only a handful of Elise owners but you see most of them using high end headphones and are very happy with it.




Ah absolutely I'll be going for the Elise. I cannot wait to pair it with the T1.2


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Mordy, 

I give you a go ahead on using a DC source like a 12V battery. I used Anker Astro Pro which is a portable cell phone charger, you can use it for multiple purposes. 

Good luck, expect the best results from Elise when you go hum free. 

Cheers 



mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 The voltage regulator has a little blue box with a tiny brass set screw somewhere near the edge - it's the only little blue block with a set screw.
  
 Just use a small flat blade screw driver to turn it and watch the display change to the desired voltage.
  
 Hi LR,
  
 The advice in the Little Dot tube amp days was, when using the amp as a preamp, always to use the highest volume on the tube amp that can be used without distortion.
  
 Some tubes play louder than others, but I find that with the Elise most of the time I leave the volume at around 3 o'clock when using it as a preamp, and then I adjust the playback level with my integrated amp. The Musicbee volume is always set to max for me.
  
 With headphones the loud volume on the Elise is impractical - too loud usually. Depending on the tubes, my normal volume setting on the Elise is 9-11 o'clock. With the low mu 6080 tubes I had to turn the volume up all the way to get a good sound level.
  
 On the other hand, with headphones, if you use a PC based program for music,  you could turn down the volume on the screen and then leave the Elise volume on high at say 3 o'clock. In this case you would adjust the playback volume from the screen.
  
 Don't know if there is a right or wrong way here - just try the different volume levels to see what sounds best to you.
  
 UT,
  
 Don't know if the EL3N have enough power in the Elise to be used as power tubes. My personal experience has been that there is no substitute for horse power (KW Down Under?) - the 2.5A power tubes always sound better than the tubes drawing less current in the Elise.
  
 Hi Oskari,
  
 Very happy to hear about your new acquisition! Waiting to hear your tube rolling impressions...Also wishing much listening pleasure to supersonic395 as well!


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Ah absolutely I'll be going for the Elise. I cannot wait to pair it with the T1.2


 

 Interesting you have the T1 gen. 2.  Can't wait to hear your impressions of it with Elise. You might need more judicious selection of tubes for it as I hear they are tuned for a more pronounced bass.
 Should be lovely though with a tube amp.


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,
  
 I have this little baby that I use to jumpstart my car if it runs out of battery:
  




  
 On the bottom front is a little flashlight that sits in a 12V cigarette plug. It just pulls out - measured the voltage there as 12.6V. 12 Volt operation, 900 peak amps and 225 cranking amps. It is basically a portable 12V lead acid battery.
  
 Overkill? 
  
 Was thinking that I could take an old cell phone car charger and splice the wires to the FDD20 and plug it into the 12V accessory outlet.


----------



## Lord Raven

supersonic395, 

Welcome to Elise community, and congratulations on selecting Elise as your tube amplifier. 

I was the only the only one who used Elise for more than 4-5 months as stock and I never regret it. It was only when I bought a DAC Amp that superceded Elise ' s sonic capabilities, then I started thinking about tube rolling lol

Now I'm using the best tubes not available in the market 

Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, that battery is nicer than Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Mordy Bro, 

I suggest to use it without worrying  Mine is 20,000 mAh. The cold cranking amperes will never be required though lol 

Trust me, after FDD20 pair, you'll never need anything. 

Cheers 



mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> I have this little baby that I use to jumpstart my car if it runs out of battery:
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

lord raven said:


> I did not get it, when getter was flushed?


 
  


> Flashed getters are prepared by arranging a reservoir of volatile and reactive material inside the vacuum system. Once the system is evacuated and sealed, the material is heated (usually by radio frequency induction heating). After evaporating, it is deposited as a coating on the interior surfaces of the system. Flashed getters (typically made with barium) are commonly used in vacuum tubes.
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter)


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Hi Mordy,
> 
> I give you a go ahead on using a DC source like a 12V battery. I used Anker Astro Pro which is a portable cell phone charger, you can use it for multiple purposes.
> 
> ...


 

 there is this 'feeling' that when using a battery as a source for dc, as opposed to ac converted to dc, that this will eliminate noise ... let's see what Larry Ho has to say about this:
 http://lhlabs.com/blog/2015/07/power-supplies-and-noise/


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> there is this 'feeling' that when using a battery as a source for dc, as opposed to ac converted to dc, that this will eliminate noise ... let's see what Larry Ho has to say about this:
> http://lhlabs.com/blog/2015/07/power-supplies-and-noise/




Hi G, 

I have read the exact same words on Core Audio website about using batteries as DC sources. I'm sure Larry Ho, creator of my DAC, copied it from there. 

My personal experience is that they do reduce the hum. If you have read my post, I mentioned that it cured 80-90% hum but still faintest of hum can be heard which did not bother me. 

Best way is to ground your system, a zero volt reference will cure the hum at all. This is what helped me. Now I'm using a SMPS with no hum or noise at all. 

Cheers


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> What's this I hear about tube stash? I see a pair of GEC 6AS7G and ECC32 at the bottom of the pile I'm sure. I also see a pair of TS black round plate. Some juicy Sylvania 6SN7W.


 
  
 Unfortunately we are not looking at the same stash.


----------



## UntilThen

LR, I have on Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998 now. Listening to Conquest of Paradise on Tidal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Awesome.


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Hi G,
> 
> ... Now I'm using a SMPS with no hum or noise at all.
> 
> Cheers


 
 no noise?  impossible ... (hook it up to a 'scope & see).  it's just deciding how much noise we can live with (to paraphrase a well-known quote from boardwalk empire) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DecentLevi

supersonic395 said:


> ... I have read the original thread and all of this one too  I did a lot (perhaps too much) research before settling on the Elise.


 
 Congratulations on reading all 600 pages


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Congratulations on reading all 600 pages


 
 That's pretty amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alison Krauss - A Hundred Miles or More : A Collection
  
 An afternoon of music, songs and relaxation with the Mini   ..........  Watts. Corrections they aren't mini. Philips Maxiwatts FDD20. Now this is more amazing than 600 pages. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 What do I do with the FDD20 if the EL3N leaves it for dust? Planning ahead... kitchen lighting? 
  
 Btw guys the postman didn't show up. That leaves one more day tomorrow ... New Year's Eve !!! 
  
 Anyone have their EL3Ns and adapters? Test away.


----------



## mordy

Hi g49,
  
 Thanks for the link about battery noise - interesting and informative.
  
 As mentioned, listening through speakers the hum is not a problem, but some tubes disturb my headphone listening.
  
 Maybe I'll get the courage up tomorrow to plug in my lead acid battery, Funny, I never heard battery noises in my cars lol.....


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy if that fails, try kinetic or solar power.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Hi G,
> 
> I have read the exact same words on Core Audio website about using batteries as DC sources. I'm sure Larry Ho, creator of my DAC, copied it from there.
> 
> ...



Ah, this is simple LR! The reason it helped you is because you were having grounding problems. Also, you were only using the battery to heat the FDD20, right? A clean power supply isn't as important when it's just for heating.


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> no noise?  impossible ... (hook it up to a 'scope & see).  it's just deciding how much noise we can live with (to paraphrase a well-known quote from boardwalk empire)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha I have attained the impossible, just like UT  I don't have a scope but I wish to own one one day hehe
  
 Yes, we sure do live with a lot of noise, most of that is residing in our own heads


----------



## Lord Raven

Brother, I wish EL3N is way better than FDD20  I hope looks of EL3N would cast a shadow on FDD20, then we shall be all hum free without external heating hehehe
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> LR, I have on Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998 now. Listening to Conquest of Paradise on Tidal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 Thanks a lot, my power tubes are mainly Chatham 6AS7G  I still have to give some time to GE 6AS7GA and Mullard 6080WA, they are sitting in my drawer idle. I am hope to pair the FDD20s with Tung Sol 5998 on new year's eve as a treat to myself and from next year I will all be fully DSD  Can you believe that?
  
 LOL brother, I wish you could come to Saudi Arabia to listen to my Utopia No.7  Even the home audio guys with thousands of dollars invested in their gear scratch their heads when they experience the pin point sound staging and mind blowing mid-bass coming out of my car audio system, I let them enjoy a thunder storm in my car and they look at the roof as if it is real, the rumble my Utopia 33WX V-II reproduces is life like and earth shaking  The history of car audio is very old, I started with a pair of 6x9 without any amplifier onboard and now I have a fully active system with 7 channels.
  
 Ok got it, after 150 hours I will crank up the volume on HD600's 
  
 And thanks for the confirmation, the golden adapters are arriving soon, then I will go hum free on all my tubes, God willing!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Hi LR, good to see you getting excited about Elise with FDD20 and HD600. You should be. What power tubes are you using for this setup?
> 
> Well you cannot compare a < $2000 head-fi gear with your Focal Utopia No. 7. That is enough to drain an oil well. BUT you can....as you said with a TOTL headphone.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Ah, this is simple LR! The reason it helped you is because you were having grounding problems. Also, you were only using the battery to heat the FDD20, right? A clean power supply isn't as important when it's just for heating.


 
 Yes, battery is used for heating only, but this was not as simple as it sounds, I tried 3 different power supplies and nothing worked for me. On the extension cord I only have Elise and the heater PS. The DAC is connected on a different wall socket. There is nothing else, no wire tangles, no extra cable, nice and tidy looking rig.
  
 I think I need some screens for FDD20 to further protect them from EMI, RFI and vibrations are taken care of by the foam I put under, now I cannot hear them rattle when I open or close the drawer upon which Elise is sitting. You guys should try thick foam.


----------



## geetarman49

mordy said:


> Hi g49,
> 
> Thanks for the link about battery noise - interesting and informative.
> 
> ...


 
 you're welcome ... are you the one who tried using cones under the elise?
  


lord raven said:


> Haha I have attained the impossible, just like UT  I don't have a scope but I wish to own one one day hehe
> 
> Yes, we sure do live with a lot of noise, most of that is residing in our own heads


 

 haha ... don't i know it.  i've got loud tinnitus 24/7.
 & to borrow a quote from gandhi, if i didn't have a sense of humor, i would have killed myself long ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> you're welcome ... are you the one who tried using cones under the elise?
> 
> 
> haha ... don't i know it.  i've got loud tinnitus 24/7.
> ...


 
 I had cones. Mine didn't work. They were made of metal though, that could be why.


----------



## Suuup

I've been thinking. For the past couple of weeks I've been running with about 95% volume from my computer (DAC is not line level) and Elise at about 9 o'clock. Wouldn't it make more sense though, to turn down the volume on my computer and turn up the volume on Elise? I'm thinking the amplification from my computer is my DAC amplifying the signal, i.e. it's solid state. What if I put it to a minimum, say 15-20% and let Elise handle it? Does this make any sense? I have no idea. 
  
  
 I just tried cranking up the volume on Elise to about 1 o'clock and down to about 15% on the computer. First thought it that it's better? But I'm not sure at all. Could just be placebo / my imagination. 
  
@mordy Nothing happens when I turn the small golden screw. However, the instructions said to press the two buttons. I can make it go somewhere in the range of 10.9V to 13.9V when I supply it with 12.3V. Not sure what happens if I supply it with less or more, will have to test it.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've been thinking. For the past couple of weeks I've been running with about 95% volume from my computer (DAC is not line level) and Elise at about 9 o'clock. Wouldn't it make more sense though, to turn down the volume on my computer and turn up the volume on Elise? I'm thinking the amplification from my computer is my DAC amplifying the signal, i.e. it's solid state. What if I put it to a minimum, say 15-20% and let Elise handle it? Does this make any sense? I have no idea.
> 
> 
> I just tried cranking up the volume on Elise to about 1 o'clock and down to about 15% on the computer. First thought it that it's better? But I'm not sure at all. Could just be placebo / my imagination.


 
 Suuup I just tried that and detect no difference. Generally I prefer to set the source to max or near max and Elise to 9 to 11 depending on headphones.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> What I got for Xmas:
> 
> a) an Elise
> b) a cold.
> ...


 
  
 GREAT news and congrats on a) but NOT b) Oskari - didn't get your timing right there, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...and a hearty WELCOME!!... Looks like you finally succumbed to our (excessive?) jubilation, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - or could it be the culmination of long, hard, careful deliberation and in-depth scrutiny of the findings concensus?...or just plain submissive capitulation?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 What(which)ever, O, am glad you're liking her already with 'just' the stock tubes..._please_ don't wait too long before treating Elise _and_ yourself to extra, belated Christmas presents, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps  Hope the cold is on its way out...we want your ears working _*perfectly*_ from now on!...
  
 pps  You _must_ make a really good DAC another of those late presents...I implore you!!


supersonic395 said:


> Ah absolutely I'll be going for the Elise. I cannot wait to pair it with the T1.2


 
  
 You like warm, lush, _*lots*_ of bass, s395?...Boy, will you be blown away by the EL3Ns, with your T1.2s lol!!! ...(once we get confirmation that the adapters are fine!... Speaking  of which, _*come on*_ @UntilThen and @JazzVinyl - and anyone else! - get moving with those things...I'm beginning to run out of patience here - the suspense is _killing_ me!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
 So lay your money down and grab your 'Bringer of Joy' ASAP!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> pps  You _must_ make a really good DAC another of those late presents...I implore you!!
> 
> Speaking  of which, _*come on*_ @UntilThen and @JazzVinyl - and anyone else! - get moving with those things...I'm beginning to run out of patience here - the suspense is _killing_ me!!!
> 
> ...


 
 I'm offering to sell Oskari my high end Aune T1 tube DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maxiwatts are sounding too good now H1. It's hard to remove these I'm afraid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Besides my adapters are somewhere in South China Seas I suspect. 
  
 Which 'Bringer of Joy' ? We have quite a few now. They all sound good.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Thanks a lot, my power tubes are mainly Chatham 6AS7G  I still have to give some time to GE 6AS7GA and Mullard 6080WA, they are sitting in my drawer idle. I am hope to pair the FDD20s with Tung Sol 5998 on new year's eve as a treat to myself and from next year I will all be fully DSD  Can you believe that.


 
 LR, I can feel your excitement. New headphone, new tubes and new DAC. Must be a real trip. Everything is coming together, plus you have remove the hum. This is how Elise should perform with everything in place. Wait till you listen with FDD20 and 5998 on your HD600. Your Mazda, Visseaux 6N7G and ECC31 should sound really good too with that headphone.
  
 A really good way to greet the New Year. 
  
 Btw where's @jerick70 ... his face has left an imprint in my mind.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'm offering to sell Oskari my high end Aune T1 tube DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT, just make him an offer "he can't refuse", lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 No more excuses re. those adapters - go get your rowing boat out!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know what you mean about those 20s...they're _*so*_ darned good...never, ever thought I'd hear anything to even match them, lol...BUT!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(and it is, after all, your *duty* as a fully paid-up member of the 'Honourable Order of Tube Rollers'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 ps.  Which 'Bringer of Joy'?....why, *ELISE* of course!!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I know what you mean about those 20s...they're _*so*_ darned good...never, ever thought I'd hear anything to even match them, lol...BUT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Seriously I'm enjoying FDD20s with 5998 so much at the moment, listening to 'Tusk' album by Fleetwood Mac. I can't imagine a better sound than this. I really can't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Likewise the Fivre 6N7G brown base. These 2 plus a few of my favourites should have been game over for me.
  
 Up pop the EL3N. Don't know what to make of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm hoping it will arrive tomorrow..on New Year's Eve. Otherwise it will have to be after the 1st Jan. Such a drag. I have never waited for adapters so anxiously. The last 2 months have been frantic with tube rolling. Should have been spread out over 6 months.


----------



## UntilThen

We need to hear from @tjw321 on his ECC31 experience.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> It was an offer I couldn't refuse.   The amp's preowned.




Congrats Oskari!!

Hope the cold susbsides and the Elise shines!!


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> We need to hear from @tjw321 on his ECC31 experience.


 
 I have a dodgy internet connection ATM, due to the wind-storms (probably) but I'll try and get a quick reply in before it fades away completely...
  
 After rolling quite a few tubes I have settled on the ECC31s with the Mullard 6080s as my full-time set-up. Initially I had a little hum from the ECC31s but that has completely evaporated with burn-in and I'm one of the lucky hum-phrey ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mostly I've been rolling the powers and have tried some Brimar 6AS7Gs, GE 6AS7G(A)s (can't remember the exact designation, and my internet connection is not letting me look it up, but they look like the 6080s) and a couple of others which aren't worth remembering compared to the Mullards and the GEs.
  
 The Brimars look really good with the ECC31s because they are coke-bottle and have a black base. I have the black adapters for the ECC31s so everything is colour-coordinated. Pity about the sound, though. The detail is missing but, to be fair, they haven't had much time so may get better with burn-in.
  
 The GEs are really good, though. A lot less bass than the ECC31s, but that suits my tastes in sound signature. They'll get some play time, but the 6080s are still my favourites so my tubes are fairly static with the ECC31s in the driving seat, and the 6080s backing them up. I suspect most people will find the GEs too anaemic but I like them for the occasional session.
  
 But...I've found that my DAC has been letting me down a bit. I've mostly been using an ODAC, which I have good results with in some applications, but it needs a fairly powerful USB socket to get the best out of it and I don't have that where my Elise currently resides. I've been temporarily using an Arcam irDAC which is good, but I've been wanting to try something multibit. And guess what has just been dropped off at my door...a Schiit Bimby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I paused to unpack it and make sure that it would power up, but now I'm going to have to sign off and give it a proper go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll be back later (if my connection holds up) and let you all know how it goes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Seriously I'm enjoying FDD20s with 5998 so much at the moment, listening to 'Tusk' album by Fleetwood Mac. I can't imagine a better sound than this. I really can't.   Likewise the Fivre 6N7G brown base. These 2 plus a few of my favourites should have been game over for me.
> 
> Up pop the EL3N. Don't know what to make of it.
> 
> I'm hoping it will arrive tomorrow..on New Year's Eve. Otherwise it will have to be after the 1st Jan. Such a drag. I have never waited for adapters so anxiously. The last 2 months have been frantic with tube rolling. Should have been spread out over 6 months.




Agree that 2x FDD20/5998 is a tough combo to beat, my daily runners, too.

I DO have the EL3N adapters but no EL3N's yet....as usual, things seem to "linger" in customs for 3 days to a week :mad:

Cheers to all..!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> LR, I have on Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998 now. Listening to Conquest of Paradise on Tidal.   Awesome.




Ah yes! Vangelis has a huge catalog going back decades. This one is great, one of my favourites of his is an oldie but a goodie called: "MASK" (( The MASK LP has absolutely SENSATIONAL sound quality )).

He also teamed up with Jon Anderson (from Yes) for a few albums in the late 70's 80's - they were very good as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_and_Vangelis


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Agree that 2x FDD20/5998 is a tough combo to beat, my daily runners, too.
> 
> I DO have the EL3N adapters but no EL3N's yet....as usual, things seem to "linger" in customs for 3 days to a week
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...so, instead of a row boat, perhaps a quick 'copter ride is in order as far as _you_ are concerned, lol!...or perhaps a Don Corleone-style "Offer they can't refuse"?!!...Ooops, perhaps not, given recent unfortunate events over the 'Pond'!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Ah well, looks like I'm gonna have to be patient a while longer, no?...Darn'!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(I just hope and pray the EL3N loves the 5998 as much as my GECs, lol...or else it just might well have to be the Chathams!...or else... mortgage the house and do the decent thing - _*get yourself(ves) some CV2523/A1834s!!!*_   CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

tjw321 said:


> I have a dodgy internet connection ATM, due to the wind-storms (probably) but I'll try and get a quick reply in before it fades away completely...
> 
> After rolling quite a few tubes I have settled on the ECC31s with the Mullard 6080s as my full-time set-up. Initially I had a little hum from the ECC31s but that has completely evaporated with burn-in and I'm one of the lucky hum-phrey ones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for updating us, tjw - you do indeed have a combo that would satisfy _anyone_, to be sure...and glad that you've managed to find a sound that suits admirably so quickly.
  
 But can I not tempt you any more, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...Look forward to your findings with the Bimby...


----------



## tjw321

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for updating us, tjw - you do indeed have a combo that would satisfy _anyone_, to be sure...and glad that you've managed to find a sound that suits admirably so quickly.
> 
> But can I not tempt you any more, lol?!
> 
> ...


 
 Early results......I have not been hearing the Elise to anything like it's full potential. The multibit hype is not hype...it's real. I need to go through all my tubes again to see what they *really* sound like. Before I was in the audience at a bar...now I'm in the band, on stage, in a concert hall. There is no (sound sig)nature, just nature. This is the closest I've come to being there without....well...being there...
 Unfortunately I can't whole-heartedly recommend the Bimby (yet) as I can only play red-book sample rate files on USB. Coax is perfect, but any other sample rate on USB ATM gets a clicking noise superimposed. This is a known problem which is supposed to get better with use, so watch this space. However, it sounds so good with red-book I may just down convert my few hi-res files and stick with just the one sample rate.
 And, the biggest problem...it's depleted my T1 fund once again. One day I'll get the T1s. They'll probably be gen 4 by then, let alone gen 2, but now I can say that I have a system worthy of them (2 systems really, my ifi stack is right up there, too).
 BTW, I have a couple of the EL3Ns still to try. Just awaiting confirmation that the adapters work  - so you have already tempted me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Plus, I'm going back to the start and trying everything all over again with the Bimby! I won't be trying any of the tubes requiring external PSUs though (yet..) because my Elise is not in a suitable location for anything too Heath Robinson (Rube Goldberg for the US and Storm P. for the Danes, I think - I don't know any others).
 Back to the Bimby/Elise combo now. TTYL....


----------



## supersonic395

hypnos1 said:


> You like warm, lush, _*lots*_ of bass, s395?...Boy, will you be blown away by the EL3Ns, with your T1.2s lol!!! ...(once we get confirmation that the adapters are fine!... Speaking  of which, _*come on*_ @UntilThen
> and @JazzVinyl
> - and anyone else! - get moving with those things...I'm beginning to run out of patience here - the suspense is _killing_ me!!! :wink_face:  ).
> So lay your money down and grab your 'Bringer of Joy' ASAP!! :bigsmile_face:




I have the money ready!! I'm waiting for Feliks to take it  

Maybe they're closed at the moment but I'll send them a follow-up email once I finish work


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Boy, will you be blown away by the EL3Ns, with your T1.2s lol!!! ...(once we get confirmation that the adapters are fine!... Speaking  of which, _*come on*_ @UntilThen and @JazzVinyl - and anyone else! - get moving with those things...I'm beginning to run out of patience here - the suspense is _killing_ me!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well H1, I've got my EL3Ns and tracking says that Mrs. Xuling's adapters have cleared US customs and should be here any day. UNFORTUNATELY, I haven't heard anything from Feliks since December 13 when I was told my Elise was in slot number 2 for production and would be shipped before Christmas ((((.
  
 When I do receive my Elise I will start with the stock tubes, gradually graduate to FDD20s (curious about the hum) and only on to the EL3Ns after I am assured that JV and UT have not blown up their Elises with your new discovery and Mrs. Xuling's adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> When I do receive my Elise I will start with the stock tubes, gradually graduate to FDD20s (curious about the hum) and only on to the EL3Ns after I am assured that JV and UT have not blown up their Elises with your new discovery and Mrs. Xuling's adapters.




LOL....nice to be of service


----------



## mordy

Hi G49,
  
 Yep, I am the guy with the cones. Bought them in the 80's, but they had been lying in a drawer for many years.
  
 There was a time when all kinds of footers were in style, including spiked feet for speakers. I have a metal equipment rack on spiked feet, with the MDF shelves suspended on four little tabs within the equipment rack shelf frame. And in between the little tabs and the MDF shelf I have a little glass marble micro rolling to cancel out vibrations. Don't know if it works, but sounds cool and did not cost anything.....
  
 I do believe that spikes work very well for certain speakers. In the past I had a pair of 135lb (each) Mirage 3Si speakers. When I put on the spikes, the sound snapped into focus (think putting on your prescription glasses and without).
  
 The aluminum cones I use as a tripod under my Elise, stuck on with hi tech chewing gum called blue tack (actually yellow tack from the 99c store).
  
 Can't say that the cones help sound wise, but they do something else which I find very valuable - they provide better ventilation around my Elise by lifting it up an inch from the shelf. The cut outs on the Elise chassis are different on the bottom and the top to promote convection of the air. Lukasz recommends three feet of open space above the amp for heat dissipation. Having the Elise on a shelf in a rack I don't have that headroom, but raising the Elise on the shelf helps it to run cooler.
  
 When it comes to footers there is a lot of stuff out there and a lot of them are generously sprinkled with snake oil. Oak, mahogany, ebony, glass, sorbothane, brass, aluminum, Moon Dots etc etc. YMMV - whatever floats your boat lol.
  
 Here is a scary looking vacuum tube:
  




  
 Have fun!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> When it comes to footers there is a lot of stuff out there and a lot of them are generously sprinkled with snake oil. Oak, mahogany, ebony, glass, sorbothane, brass, aluminum, Moon Dots etc etc. YMMV - whatever floats your boat lol.




I replaced the feet on an 80's turntable with 4 sorbothane footers...they work great to *NOT* transmit vibrations to the table.


----------



## Oskari

Thanks for the congrats/welcomes, guys!
  


hypnos1 said:


> Looks like you finally succumbed to our (excessive?) jubilation, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It always was very close.
  


> pps  You _must_ make a really good DAC another of those late presents...I implore you!!


 
  
 I sort of know what I want and I've been looking for one, but so far the planets have not aligned.


----------



## tjw321

Talking of DACs, my Bimby is, in fact, working perfectly. The clicking was an artefact of that same underpowered USB port that couldn't drive the ODAC properly. Everything else can play back any file I throw at it. I had a wireless dongle in one of the other USB ports and you can see the light on the dongle flash in time with the clicks as power is diverted away from the audio port. I'm currently in audio heaven listening to Julie London (in red-book) via the Bimby, two 6080s and two ECC31s.


----------



## Suuup

tjw321 said:


> Early results......I have not been hearing the Elise to anything like it's full potential. The multibit hype is not hype...it's real. I need to go through all my tubes again to see what they *really* sound like. Before I was in the audience at a bar...now I'm in the band, on stage, in a concert hall. There is no (sound sig)nature, just nature. This is the closest I've come to being there without....well...being there...
> Unfortunately I can't whole-heartedly recommend the Bimby (yet) as I can only play red-book sample rate files on USB. Coax is perfect, but any other sample rate on USB ATM gets a clicking noise superimposed. This is a known problem which is supposed to get better with use, so watch this space. However, it sounds so good with red-book I may just down convert my few hi-res files and stick with just the one sample rate.
> And, the biggest problem...it's depleted my T1 fund once again. One day I'll get the T1s. They'll probably be gen 4 by then, let alone gen 2, but now I can say that I have a system worthy of them (2 systems really, my ifi stack is right up there, too).
> BTW, I have a couple of the EL3Ns still to try. Just awaiting confirmation that the adapters work  - so you have already tempted me
> ...


 
 Oh wow, I'm impressed Tjw! I thought Storm P. was only known to Danes, didn't know he had an international reputation. 
  
 Your Bimby sounds very interesting! Just to make sure, it is a Schiit Bifrost Multibit, correct? I've been looking at it myself, thinking about taking the plunge. Don't have the funds right now though.


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  life's not fair. You have the adapters and I have the tubes. How can the adapters get to US faster than they get to Australia from Hong Kong. I really think it's somewhere in the oceans. Mrs. XuLing is on holidays till the 5th Jan so I can't ask her. 
  
 Schmitt Bambi? Never heard of it.      Ok...found out about it now. See I type in Bimby and the editor change it to Bambi. Love the editor here. Hmmm multibit and up sampling nice but not so nice with poor recordings. Alright @tjw321 I'll trade my NAD D1050 for your Bimby.
  
 Btw TJ, you're resident contributor here now. Get that internet connection fixed !!!


----------



## tjw321

suuup said:


> Oh wow, I'm impressed Tjw! I thought Storm P. was only known to Danes, didn't know he had an international reputation.
> 
> Your Bimby sounds very interesting! Just to make sure, it is a Schiit Bifrost Multibit, correct? I've been looking at it myself, thinking about taking the plunge. Don't have the funds right now though.


 
 That's correct. It's the Multibit version of the Bifrost. It took me a long time to finally commit my T1 funds to it, but I'm very pleased with the result.
  
 I heard about Storm P. when I mentioned Heath Robinson once before and nobody knew who he was. I was quite surprised as Heath Robinson is very well known around here....and then I realised I live just a few hundred yards from where he lived, and where there is now a Heath Robinson museum! I enjoy those "machines" so I looked up all the other "inventors" that got a mention, Storm P. being one of them.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I have the money ready!! I'm waiting for Feliks to take it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 SS, you're starting to sound like me when I wanted Elise.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl  life's not fair. You have the adapters and I have the tubes. How can the adapters get to US faster than they get to Australia from Hong Kong. I really think it's somewhere in the oceans. Mrs. XuLing is on holidays till the 5th Jan so I can't ask her.
> 
> Schmitt Bambi? Never heard of it.      Ok...found out about it now. See I type in Bimby and the editor change it to Bambi. Love the editor here. Hmmm multibit and up sampling nice but not so nice with poor recordings. Alright @tjw321 I'll trade my NAD D1050 for your Bimby.
> 
> Btw TJ, you're resident contributor here now. Get that internet connection fixed !!!


 
 Internet seems to be holding steady now that the wind has dropped and been replaced by torrential rain.
  
 I remember crying when Bambi's


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



mother died in the forest fire


 (I was only 5 - it was the first film I ever saw...but it wasn't the premier!). I think the Bimby might just make me cry as well, but tears of joy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> SS, you're starting to sound like me when I wanted Elise.


 
  
 Ha! Spot on!! 
  
 I've sent an email to them directly as opposed the inquiry form, so should hopefully hear from them (very) soon!
  
 Reading the old thread and this thread is making the wait more painful ;P


----------



## Suuup

supersonic395 said:


> Ha! Spot on!!
> 
> I've sent an email to them directly as opposed the inquiry form, so should hopefully hear from them (very) soon!
> 
> Reading the old thread and this thread is making the wait more painful ;P


 
 They went on vacation last summer and forgot to turn on their out of office auto reply. It's possible that the same thing happened this time.


----------



## supersonic395

Ah okay, makes sense!


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I sort of know what I want and I've been looking for one, but so far the planets have not aligned.


 
 Is this what you want Oskari?
  
 It will power a HD800


----------



## supersonic395

^ What amp is that?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Is this what you want Oskari?


 
  
 Not exactly…


----------



## Suuup

supersonic395 said:


> ^ What amp is that?



It's a DAC called Aune T1.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> ^ What amp is that?


 
 What??? Is that a question??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's the Aune T1 ... a tube DAC/ss amp combo all the way from the silk road. 24/96, drive up to 600ohms impedance HPs. This was my 1st dac/amp with the DT880 and HD650. 
  
 See green colour


----------



## UntilThen

I'm waiting at the door for the postman to bring those adapters...


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> What??? Is that a question???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
 How much and where can I buy one?
 Cheers


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm waiting at the door for the postman to bring those adapters...




LOL...for sure, coming today?

No change in my EL3N status...so looks like you get to try them first (after H1 that is...)...!!!

Happy New Years' Eve!! But it's still yesterday, here


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi,
> How much and where can I buy one?
> Cheers


 

 Oh me goose....I'm selling Elise not Aune T1 !!! 
  
 On eBay....lots but I hope you have better luck than me. My 1st 2 units came with the power switch stuck !!! It won't power on no matter how much force I use.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Oh me goose....I'm selling Elise not Aune T1 !!!




Your selling your *Elise*, already???

WHOA!!


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Oh me goose....I'm selling Elise not Aune T1 !!!


 

 What??
  
  
 Was the quality control really that bad?


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> What??
> 
> 
> Was the quality control really that bad?


 

 It can be that bad for a $189 gear. However if you get a working unit, it's quite fun.
  
 Now I'll loose my Elise sale rep status.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> It can be that bad for a $189 gear. However if you get a working unit, it's quite fun.
> 
> Now I'll loose my Elise sale rep status.


 

 I'm confused now :s
  
 You mean the Aune-T1 was faulty right?
  
 The Elise was fine by comparison?


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I'm confused now :s
> 
> You mean the Aune-T1 was faulty right?
> 
> The Elise was fine by comparison?


 

 YES    Elise is more than fine. My 1st 2 units of Aune T1 was faulty.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> YES    Elise is more than fine. My 1st 2 units of Aune T1 was faulty.


 
  
 Gotcha!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh me goose....I'm selling Elise not Aune T1 !!!
> 
> On eBay....lots but I hope you have better luck than me. My 1st 2 units came with the power switch stuck !!! It won't power on no matter how much force I use.



I think you switched them around.. Unless you really want to to sell Elise?


----------



## supersonic395

^ I think he did mix them up.
  
 At least that's what I choose to believe


----------



## UntilThen

LOL I have to make myself clear next time.

I've finished moving my front lawn and the postman is still not here...


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> LOL I have to make myself clear next time.
> 
> I've finished moving my front lawn and the postman is still not here...


 

 hmmm ... i think you meant that you are not selling _your _elise, but *promoting *elise ... am i right or am i wrong?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I've finished moving my front lawn and the postman is still not here...


 
  
 WOW!!! Selling your Elise and MOVING your front lawn all on the same day. Must have been quite a day for you


----------



## Lord Raven

I feel you brother, and seriously wish not to have this sickness of a life time, being an audio guy going deaf is my biggest fear 
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> haha ... don't i know it.  i've got loud tinnitus 24/7.
> & to borrow a quote from gandhi, if i didn't have a sense of humor, i would have killed myself long ago
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 If 5998 are the tubes that make my end game, then I will sell everything to own a pair of GEC 6AS7G by the end of 2016 LOL
  
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> LR, I can feel your excitement. New headphone, new tubes and new DAC. Must be a real trip. Everything is coming together, plus you have remove the hum. This is how Elise should perform with everything in place. Wait till you listen with FDD20 and 5998 on your HD600. Your Mazda, Visseaux 6N7G and ECC31 should sound really good too with that headphone.
> 
> A really good way to greet the New Year.
> 
> Btw where's @jerick70 ... his face has left an imprint in my mind.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi JV,
  
 Sorry brother, I got carried away 
  
 I only have higher resolution files on that album by Horace Silver  I delete the low res if I find something better, this is my usual practice. As I said earlier, going DSD was a huge upgrade on sonic levels. Between CD and DVD I think your DAC matters a lot, if you have a quality DAC, it can make a CD sound like a DVD  This is what I have done, got myself the best possible DAC in the market that fits in my budget. At first listen, it easily superceded Elise, but now with tube rolling, both items are making me go beyond heaven 
  
 Haha that is live music and I love it  You have a point though hehe
  
 Cheers!
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello LR...
> 
> Your logic, escapes me.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> WOW!!! Selling your Elise and MOVING your front lawn all on the same day. Must have been quite a day for you


 

 I know. That happens on New Year's Eve and the champagne's not flowing yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You should try moving your front lawn every now and then. Try swapping it with your neighbour's lawn. You get a different look each time.


----------



## Lord Raven

Many congratulations Oskari  With your knowledge about tubes, you can make it sound like heaven!!
  
 Quote:


oskari said:


> What I got for Xmas:
> 
> a) an Elise
> b) a cold.
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> hmmm ... i think you meant that you are not selling _your _elise, but *promoting *elise ... am i right or am i wrong?


 

 g49, we're on the same wavelength. Did we go to the same school and class together?


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> If 5998 are the tubes that make my end game, then I will sell everything to own a pair of GEC 6AS7G by the end of 2016 LOL


 
 Don't touch my GEC 6AS7G and bid against me or I'll chase you around the globe.
  
 Btw 5998 and GEC 6AS7G are not alike entirely. So I think you need both.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> LOL I have to make myself clear next time.
> I've finished moving my front lawn and the postman is still not here...




What? You moved your front lawn closer to the PO?

I wish they mailman would get there....I WANNA KNOW IF THE ADAPTERS WORK


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> What? You moved your front lawn closer to the PO?
> 
> I wish they mailman would get there....I WANNA KNOW IF THE ADAPTERS WORK


 

 Sorry mate. It looks like I won't get the adapters till after the 1st Jan. SO we're now counting on you JV to do the brave thing....make sure you cut the right wire. It's either the red or blue wire. Cut the wrong wire and you're off to Mars.
  
 Good luck buddy.


----------



## UntilThen

@Oskari  this looks pretty good.
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/matrix-mini-i-dac-amp?referer=92MGH6&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20D%20Product%20Announcement%202015-12-30&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20%5BD%5D


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> WOW!!! Selling your Elise and MOVING your front lawn all on the same day. Must have been quite a day for you :blink:



Too funny, 
You beat me to it!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Sorry mate. It looks like I won't get the adapters till after the 1st Jan. SO we're now counting on you JV to do the brave thing....make sure you cut the right wire. It's either the red or blue wire. Cut the wrong wire and you're off to Mars.
> 
> Good luck buddy.




HUH?

I was absent when all the discussion about how the Pentodes are wired were posted. I still have no word that the EL3N's have moved any closer to my house. So I suspect that they won't be here until next year as well


----------



## aqsw

My Audezes and Oppo pm3s are sounding good again. Using 5998s powers and stock drivers. I get way more than enough volume without distortion. (12-1 oclock).Ether C distorts before you get to a comfortable level..

Heres the kicker. As soon as I put an st shaped valve in for a driver, I get distortion before I get to my desired level.
It does sound very good with the stock, but by reading all the reviews, I know I'm missing out alot. And I have alot of st shaped drivers that I purchased after reading the reviews.

Lucasz would probably tell me Im not using the proper valves..


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> My Audezes and Oppo pm3s are sounding good again. Using 5998s powers and stock drivers. I get way more than enough volume without distortion. (12-1 oclock).Ether C distorts before you get to a comfortable level..
> 
> Heres the kicker. As soon as I put an st shaped valve in for a driver, I get distortion before I get to my desired level.
> It does sound very good with the stock, but by reading all the reviews, I know I'm missing out alot. And I have alot of st shaped drivers that I purchased after reading the reviews.
> ...


 
 Do you have any way to test your Elise with high impedance cans?


----------



## aqsw

Yes, I can borrow pair, but its about an hour drive each way. That will be my first test. The lcds are still for sale. Im thinking of taking them off sale. I really love thse cans.


----------



## mordy

Hi aqsw,
  
 I have exactly the same problem using headphones. Terrible hum using ST driver tubes. My workaround is to use the Elise as a preamp and listen through the headphone jack on my integrated amp amp.
  
 Using the Elise with ST drivers as a preamp, listening through speakers, the hum problem goes away.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @Oskari  this looks pretty good.


 
  
 Yes, but it is not what I want.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> I had cones. Mine didn't work. They were made of metal though, that could be why.


 
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi G49,
> 
> Yep, I am the guy with the cones. Bought them in the 80's, but they had been lying in a drawer for many years.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i'm thinking that i first saw cones back in the late '80s at ces. i know some spkr manufacturers were using spikes before then -- can't recall who were the first, but wilson audio included them with the first generation puppies.
  
 with respect to the cones, the thinking was that sound wave energy from loudspkrs would induce microvibrations in your gear & that the cones (machined, solid metal) would funnel this energy to the body of contact (shelf, stand, floor, etc.).  to be clear, the theory is that the cones would provide tight coupling between your gear (small mass) and a stand/floor (much greater mass). if vibrational modes were induced into your gear, then the energy would be dissipated through the cones into the mass of the larger body upon which the cones were resting (pointing).
  
 & to be sure, the first uses of these cones on somewhat moderately heavy to massive electronics (say 20lb to 100+lb) coupled to massive flooring was quite positive. pretty soon people were using them all over the place. but it didn't take a genius to recognize that placing cones underneath turntables and tube preamps which were sitting on rather thin mdf shelves on a rack stand didn't really conform to the notion that vibrational energy would dissipate from gear (small mass) to stand (larger mass) to floor (even larger mass). all too often, walking across wood flooring would cause the chassis of the stand to direct mechanical energy into the shelves, which tightly coupled by cones, into the turntable thereby causing the arm/stylus to literally fly off the record surface! the problem is that the floor of your typical home is not a single large mass but a series of parallel 'wooden' planks behaving like a lever and fulcrum with a spring component. & the same is true of your typical rack stand, which does not behave like a singularly massive body.
  
 nonetheless, i still advocate using cones for some electronics. i particularly like using them under (rather massive) amps - coupled not to the floor but to solid blocks of granite or marble or similar type stone - i like 50 to 100lb pieces.  spkg of which, the best way to acquire such blocks is to seek out local stonecutters (cemetary headstones, kitchen countertops) and ask them for discards which are smooth on 1 surface.  for a small fee, they'll even cut it to your specs.
  
 i can't say that such use of cones improves overall sonics, but they contribute to the bling factor and definitely improves ventilation for your gear.  as for using cones on a shelf of a rack stand, i'm not convinced that they do more good than harm.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> My Audezes and Oppo pm3s are sounding good again. Using 5998s powers and stock drivers. I get way more than enough volume without distortion. (12-1 oclock).Ether C distorts before you get to a comfortable level..
> 
> Heres the kicker. As soon as I put an st shaped valve in for a driver, I get distortion before I get to my desired level.
> It does sound very good with the stock, but by reading all the reviews, I know I'm missing out alot. And I have alot of st shaped drivers that I purchased after reading the reviews.
> ...


 

 1st question:- What did you do to make your LCD2.2 and Oppo PM3 sound good again with Tung Sol 6SN7 and 5998?
  
 2nd question:- What adapters are you using for your ST shaped drivers? Black or gold?
  
 3rd question:- Are your adapters ECC31 to 6SN7?
  
 4th question:- Are your ST shaped drivers the Mazda 6N7G? Can you post a picture?
  
 I have no further questions, your honour.


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> Hi aqsw,
> 
> I have exactly the same problem using headphones. Terrible hum using ST driver tubes. My workaround is to use the Elise as a preamp and listen through the headphone jack on my integrated amp amp.
> 
> Using the Elise with ST drivers as a preamp, listening through speakers, the hum problem goes away.




Mine is not a hum. It's distortion.


----------



## aqsw

1. - Did nothing, they always sounded good with stock drivers
2.- I had black ones and Im sure they were defective. Now using mrsx white gold.
3. -yes
4.- fd20 , ecc 31, mazda

Taking some pics now . Will post in a couple minutes.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> 1. - Did nothing, they always sounded good with stock drivers
> 2.- I had black ones and Im sure they were defective. Now using mrsx white gold.
> 3. -yes
> 4.- fd20 , ecc 31, mazda
> ...


 

 Alright I need to establish that with stock drivers and 5998, you have no problems at all with LCD2.2 and Oppo PM3. Do you get distortion with higher volume with this combo. If so at what volume level? It's important that the stock tubes works perfect then we can move on to find out about the other fancy drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> HUH?
> 
> I was absent when all the discussion about how the Pentodes are wired were posted. I still have no word that the EL3N's have moved any closer to my house. So I suspect that they won't be here until next year as well


 

 No worries lol. My adapters will eventually get here. Let me try it first.


----------



## aqsw

Heres some pics.


----------



## aqsw

Another


----------



## aqsw




----------



## UntilThen

aqsw, first of all, these are definitely the Mazda 6N7G. Secondly can you see my last question to you? Post #2430. Thanks.
  
 What I like to do is....if you're agreeable... is send me a pair of those Mazda 6N7G and your gold ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters...and I'll test it on my Elise. This way we can determine if the tubes and adapters are at fault or if it's your Elise not agreeing with them.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Alright I need to establish that with stock drivers and 5998, you have no problems at all with LCD2.2 and Oppo PM3. Do you get distortion with higher volume with this combo. If so at what volume level? It's important that the stock tubes works perfect then we can move on to find out about the other fancy drivers.




Starts distorting about 1:30 which is past my listening level.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Starts distorting about 1:30 which is past my listening level.


 
 Ok. I want you to use your stock tubes completely. That is, use both stock power and drivers tubes. Then test again. See if you get distortion at 1:30 or more.
  
 It's hard for me to verify whether mine distorts at high volume because if my source is max, I cannot go past 1 pm on Elise without destroying my ears. However as I said I can reduce my source volume to almost zero...say 1 then I can turn Elise volume to max...and I can listen to the music clearly without distortion. This is with FDD20 and 5998.
  
 I wish @jerick70 is here to confirm because he has the LCD2.2 and the 1st impression he gave me was very good. He did not mention distortion and I think he had it at 1pm.


----------



## aqsw

That will be a final . Im going to try 600 ohm phones first. Im pretty sure my 4 el3ns are going to distort too.
if the fix is Beyer T1s then I will bite the bullet.


----------



## aqsw

My source is the Hegel. It is set at 100% by default.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> That will be a final . Im going to try 600 ohm phones first. Im pretty sure my 4 el3ns are going to distort too.
> if the fix is Beyer T1s then I will bite the bullet.


 
 Well, now you have me rooting for the distortion! T1 is definitely the way to go with Elise -- in my opinion! 
  
 It would be cool if Elise could really work with your LCD 2.2 though.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> That will be a final . Im going to try 600 ohm phones first. Im pretty sure my 4 el3ns are going to distort too.
> if the fix is Beyer T1s then I will bite the bullet.


 

 It's sad to hear your good drivers (ECC31, Mazda 6N7G and FDD20) distorts when using LCD2.2 and Oppo PM3. Mine works perfect with HE560.
  
 Perhaps borrow a DT880, HD600, HD650 or T1 to try it on your Elise first. If those headphones still distorts, you can conclude that your unit have a problem. I would still ask you to talk to Lukasz. You can ask him anything. He's very receptive to customers question and very helpful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> My source is the Hegel. It is set at 100% by default.




And you tried turning the source (Hegel) down to 50%?

Do you have any line level (can't adjust volume) sources to try?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's sad to hear your good drivers (ECC31, Mazda 6N7G and FDD20) distorts when using LCD2.2 and Oppo PM3. Mine works perfect with HE560.
> 
> Perhaps borrow a DT880, HD600, HD650 or T1 to try it on your Elise first. If those headphones still distorts, you can conclude that your unit have a problem. I would still ask you to talk to Lukasz. You can ask him anything. He's very receptive to customers question and very helpful.


 
@aqsw I agree with UT. It wouldn't hurt shooting Lukasz an email.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> And you tried turning the source (Hegel) down to 50%?
> 
> Do you have any line level (can't adjust volume) sources to try?




Hegel states to set it at 100. There is a volume setting, only for it's amp station. My new dac I ordered, which is the one to be paired with the Elise has no amplifier and is set at their 100 % also.


----------



## UntilThen

@aqsw pack all your gear and come and visit me. We'll test it out and then go pub crawling.
  
 Right now using C3G and 5998 and it's fireworks. SO SWEET, SO CLEAR. Sorry caps lock got stuck there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is one combo I would recommend even if I have to move my lawn. !!!


----------



## aqsw

I set my line level by my 62 year old ears. I have had many stereos from 100- 50,000.00. I know what distortion is for my listening level. 
And that level is not that high.

I don't mean to sound condiscending. I really dont mean it to be. Im just a little teed off.
Regards


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @aqsw
> pack all your gear and come and visit me. We'll test it out and then go pub crawling.
> 
> Right now using C3G and 5998 and it's fireworks. SO SWEET, SO CLEAR. Sorry caps lock got stuck there.   This is one combo I would recommend even if I have to move my lawn. !!!




It's Winter here you might have to move some snow 

I have been C3gS'ing for a few days. Paired with the Parts Express 6AS7GA's that I got for Xmas...
a fine combo, indeed!!!


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> @aqsw
> pack all your gear and come and visit me. We'll test it out and then go pub crawling.
> 
> Right now using C3G and 5998 and it's fireworks. SO SWEET, SO CLEAR. Sorry caps lock got stuck there.   This is one combo I would recommend even if I have to move my lawn. !!!




Hopefully, I will get there some day. That is Elise Nrvana, and Australia!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Listening to this 2 LP set (bought brand new) and HOLY TOLEDO...the Sound Quality is incredible!!



Timothy B. Schmit - Expando (( from 2009 ))


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I set my line level by my 62 year old ears. I have had many stereos from 100- 50,000.00. I know what distortion is for my listening level.
> And that level is not that high.
> 
> I don't mean to sound condiscending. I really dont mean it to be. Im just a little teed off.
> Regards




Totally understand, aqsw!!!

I would be too...distortion is not fun.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hopefully, I will get there some day. That is Elise Nrvana, and Australia!


 

 Yes do come and visit me. I'll show you around.
  
 Talk to Lukasz ok? He will help you out. If there's anything I can do, don't hesitate to PM me.


----------



## aqsw

Switched powers back to stock.. Same distortion about 1:30. Very manageable, as I don't listen that high anyways
5998s go way deeper.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@aqsw - question for you. Canada as 120v mains...does your Elise make a physical hum via the transformer?

Mine certainly does but all the 240v mains owners say no. So my theory is that the 120 is being stepped up to 240 or 300 volts, and that is where this sound is coming from.


----------



## aqsw

I just so much, want to enjoy all the drivers I purchased!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I just so much, want to enjoy all the drivers I purchased!




So that I understand your setup...your streaming via a PC (or MAC) out to the Hegel via USB, then RCA patch cords from Hegel out to the Elise, then listening via HP plugged directly into Elise...

Right?


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> @aqsw - question for you. Canada as 120v mains...does your Elise make a physical hum via the transformer?
> 
> Mine certainly does but all the 240v mains owners say no. So my theory is that the 120 is being stepped up to 240 or 300 volts, and that is where this sound is coming from.




Transformer is dead silent.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> So that I understand your setup...your streaming via a PC (or MAC) out to the Hegel via USB, then RCA patch cords from Hegel out to the Elise, then listening via HP plugged directly into Elise...
> 
> Right?




No,

I'm going two diffrrent ways

Phone/tablet >bluetooth receiver>coax hegel>Elise
or
android box optical> hegel optical in> Elise
You are right. Rcas from the Hegel to the Elise. Listening from the Elise.

I run the same setup to my Liquid Carbon, and there is absolutely no distortion till full volume.


----------



## aqsw

The Elise sounds better though, even with the stock drivers and inferior headphones.


----------



## Suuup

I'm done. Never will I ever deal with Amazon again. Full story here:
  
 I order a pair of 1770 from Amazon directly for 400$ (using a 20% promo code). It says out of stock, but I'm optimistic (a month till Christmas).
  
 A couple of days later I contact Amazon support, asking when the item will be available. Agent says something has gone wrong, and that I should reorder from their 3rd party vendor. The 1770 costs 600$ from their 3rd party vendor, so I ask the agent about the price difference. No problems I'm told, I shall just order the item for 600$ and contact Amazon when the money has been transfered. They will issue a 200$ refund, so my effective payment is 400$ (the original price). Cool.
  
 About a week later I contact Amazon again, and ask about the 200$ refund. No problem they say, and issue a refund. 
  
 A couple days later, I check my bank account, and sure enough, there's a refund. But it's only 150$. I contact Amazon about it. The agent replies that there must've been a mistake, and says he's taken care of it. 
  
 It's now Christmas, and I finally get to try the headphones (present from my parents). They're magnificent! Just what I wanted. Same afternoon I hear a weird buzzing noise. I ran them straight out of my jack in my laptop, so I figure that is the cause. I also still haven't received the remaining 50$ from Amazon, so I contact them again. It is now the 25th (we celebrate Christmas the 24th in Denmark). They refuse to pay the refund, but offer a promotional offer of 50$ instead. I don't accept this, as I just want the money back, but they cannot do this apparently, since I used a 20% off promo code (which is the remaining 50$? Your math doesn't check out Amazon). I escalate it all the way to the top, and finally, after close to 4 hours, they disconnect on me.
  
 A couple of days later, I contact them again. I get the exact same lines copy/pasted. "System doesn't allow for the refund of the remaining 50$, but I can give you a promotional offer of 50$". "I will not be able to offer any more insight into this case. Is there anything else I can help you with?". After 2 hours of this, I finally disconnect, still unhappy. 
  
 A day later, it's not the 28th or 29th. I realize my headphones are broken. The right driver is rattling. Many people reporting exactly the same problems. Okay, so I'll just get a replacement? 
  
 It's now the 31th, 3 AM. I've been talking to Amazon support for about an hour now. They cannot offer me a replacement, since I ordered from a 3rd party vendor (I originally ordered from Amazon directly, but due to the re-order I had to order from a 3rd party vendor). As such, I cannot get a replacement, but I can get a refund. They're offering a refund of 450$. Okay then, but a new pair costs 600$? Can I get a discount if I order a new pair of headphones? Nope. Not at all. No chance in hell. So what do I do now? I paid 450$ for my headphones, and I cannot get a replacement. I can get a refund of 450$, but that isn't enough to buy a new pair?
  
 If I return the headphones to Amazon, I get a net loss of 0$, but I've wasted 12-15 hours fighting their customer support. Furthermore, I've used favors to get the headphones from the US to Denmark. All for nothing.


----------



## UntilThen

That's a very bad experience. I'm now pretty sure that when buying an expensive headphones I'll do it only in a walk in store, where I can try it and pay for the price I know it to be. Walk in stores are more expensive but you get personalise service, plus you get to audition as many headphones as you like. 
  
 There's a big store here called 'Addicted to Audio' which has all the high end headphones and amps. This is where LR ordered his HD600. There's also Minidisc in Sydney, where I bought all my headphones except the HE560 which my son bought from Japan.
  
 Suuup, get the refund and buy a HE560.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's a very bad experience. I'm now pretty sure that when buying an expensive headphones I'll do it only in a walk in store, where I can try it and pay for the price I know it to be. Walk in stores are more expensive but you get personalise service, plus you get to audition as many headphones as you like.
> 
> There's a big store here called 'Addicted to Audio' which has all the high end headphones and amps. This is where LR ordered his HD600. There's also Minidisc in Sydney, where I bought all my headphones except the HE560 which my son bought from Japan.
> 
> Suuup, get the refund and buy a HE560.


 
 Unfortunately there are no good walk-in stores here in Denmark for headphones. 
  
 I'd love to have a pair of HE-560, but I really don't need more headphones for home. I am more than happy with my T1's. The 1770's were meant for when I'm out and about. As a student, I do not have a car (cars are insanely expensive in Denmark, there's a 180% tax + insurance is about 4000$ a year until you get older), so I take the train every time I go anywhere. The 1770's were meant to be my out and about cans, but I guess this will not be possible anyway.


----------



## aqsw

Sorry to hear that Suup.
I buy alot of little stuff from Amazon and have never had a problem.
My major purchases go to people I trust. Usually small established guys will give you a good deal . Might have to pay a little more ( not in my case),
but you sure don't get that BS.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup for mobility get this http://www.minidisc.com.au/headphones-earphones/inear-earphones/audio-technica-athim50-dual-symphonic-inear-headphone-p-1100704.html
  
 Good bass


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup for mobility get this http://www.minidisc.com.au/headphones-earphones/inear-earphones/audio-technica-athim50-dual-symphonic-inear-headphone-p-1100704.html
> 
> Good bass


 
 Only problem is I don't really like in-ears :-/. Also, the 1770's were a really good complement to my T1's. It handles the music the T1 doesn't, i.e. more metal-ish music.


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> Only problem is I don't really like in-ears :-/. Also, the 1770's were a really good complement to my T1's. It handles the music the T1 doesn't, i.e. more metal-ish music.




I hate in ears too. I use them on my motorcycle trips only.
Oppo Pm3s?


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> I hate in ears too. I use them on my motorcycle trips only.
> Oppo Pm3s?


 
 They're certainly a possibility. I don't really know though. I might end up buying a pair of Bose QC25. Just tried them at the store today. The noise-cancelling has certainly gotten far. It was far better than that of my pair of Bose QC3. Don't know about the sound though. For some odd reason, you couldn't listen to any actual music with them. The only thing you could listen to was an add, how odd is that?
  
 I want something that complements my T1's, i.e. handles the music that the T1 doesn't. They should also work well with Elise. And then of course out of my phone when I'm not home (or maybe a small amp).
  
 Edit: If you have Mark Knopflers new album, go listen to Lights of Taormina. It's a great song! The drums has a good thump while still being soft, which works really well with the song.


----------



## aqsw

Wow,

Oppo Pm3s >>> kill the 25s. Not even in the same ballpark. Unless you are talking about watching a movie on a plane.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> Wow,
> 
> Oppo Pm3s >>> kill the 25s. Not even in the same ballpark. Unless you are talking about watching a movie on a plane.


 
 Oh yea, no doubt about it. I'm not saying that the QC25 are better than the Oppos at all. It's just that pure SQ is not what I'm looking for when I'm out and about. The 1770's were exactly what I expected them to be / what I was looking for. It's shame they broke. 
  
 As a side note, I've always thought that the Oppos looked a lot like the PSB M4U2 (which I've also owned, but they broke too. Poor build quality).


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> They're certainly a possibility. I don't really know though. I might end up buying a pair of Bose QC25. Just tried them at the store today. The noise-cancelling has certainly gotten far. It was far better than that of my pair of Bose QC3. Don't know about the sound though. For some odd reason, you couldn't listen to any actual music with them. The only thing you could listen to was an add, how odd is that?
> 
> I want something that complements my T1's, i.e. handles the music that the T1 doesn't. They should also work well with Elise. And then of course out of my phone when I'm not home (or maybe a small amp).
> 
> Edit: If you have Mark Knopflers new album, go listen to Lights of Taormina. It's a great song! The drums has a good thump while still being soft, which works really well with the song.



It's not on my tidal.:mad:


----------



## UntilThen

This one then. Guarantee good 
  
 http://www.minidisc.com.au/headphones-earphones/closed-headphones/nad-viso-hp50-noise-isolating-over-ear-headphones-p-1100713.html?currency=AUD&CAWELAID=120160060000048552&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=120160060000003880&cadevice=c&gclid=CNDu9feLhcoCFQwlvQod-qsMiA


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> It's not on my tidal.


 
 No. For some reason, Tidal doesn't have much of Mark Knopflers works. I'm very annoyed about that too. Fortunately, I have all of his CD's. Couldn't live without them.


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> Oh yea, no doubt about it. I'm not saying that the QC25 are better than the Oppos at all. It's just that pure SQ is not what I'm looking for when I'm out and about. The 1770's were exactly what I expected them to be / what I was looking for. It's shame they broke.
> 
> As a side note, I've always thought that the Oppos looked a lot like the PSB M4U2 (which I've also owned, but they broke too. Poor build quality).




As another side note, the oppos are built like a tank.
And they sound better than the psbs too. Only by the comparisons I've read.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> As another side note, the oppos are built like a tank.
> And they sound better than the psbs too. Only by the comparisons I've read.


 
 Yea. The PSB's are already, but not the best. Built in amplifier is nice, so is noise cancelling. But it's not really necessary. Went to the US a couple of years back. I didn't really know a lot about audio at all. Demoed the PSB's and the HD600 in the store. Guess what, I bought the PSB's over the HD600. Guess it was due to noise cancelling removing the noise from the store and the built-in amp making it play louder than the HD600. 
  
 I am wiser now.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey my PSB is still alive and kicking in the box !!!
  
 Just look at that bling bling


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Hey my PSB is still alive and kicking in the box !!!
> 
> Just look at that bling bling


 
 UT, you have them too?! Haha, that is incredible! Any thoughts?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> UT, you have them too?! Haha, that is incredible! Any thoughts?


 
 I had a review of it with Elise on this thread. Let me find it...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I had a review of it with Elise on this thread. Let me find it...


 
 Wait what? How have I missed that? Pretty sure I've read everything.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Wait what? How have I missed that? Pretty sure I've read everything.


 

 I think you need to re-read the whole thread lol. I talk about using various headphones with Elise. PSB M4U2 and Senn Momentum are 2 of those.


----------



## UntilThen

There...headphones with Elise. Oh well not much of a review. I was just testing how they sounded on Elise.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/2190#post_12073126
  
 Sennheiser Momentum 18 ohms works well with Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> There...headphones with Elise. Oh well not much of a review. I was just testing how they sounded on Elise.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/2190#post_12073126


 
 Ah yes, I think I actually remember now. They're actually alright. Mine broke after a year though. They're foldable. They have very strong hinges made of metal. Only problem is, the metal is fastened to the plastic headband, which isn't particularly durable. My metal hinges are fine, but the plastic snapped after about a year. Talked to PSB about it, but they wouldn't do anything. That is when I bought my first pair of Beyers, the 990's. 
  
 Actually, I'm happy they broke. If not, I wouldn't be here at all.


----------



## UntilThen

OK Joybringers on duty. I mean Visseaux 6N7G. There's something about this tube. It's super detail, luscious midrange and a kick butt bass.
 I'm running out of adjectives now. I may have to think of weather, food, sports, drinks, etc to describe what I hear.
  
 Oooooooo soo good. With 5998. @hypnos1 those EL3Ns will not stand a chance against this French driver. Bass is SOLID. Head bobbing now.
  
 Alright sorry guys. I don't need EL3Ns now. I'm 'Lost in Translation' ... ever seen that movie? A faded movie star and a neglected young woman form an unlikely bond after crossing paths in Tokyo. Bill Murray and Scarlett Johansson. 
  
  
  
  
 Rock on !!! It's New Year's Eve ... countdown has begun.
  
 Behold Joybringers


----------



## JazzVinyl

Suuup - what is your source for mobile listening?

Ever tried the original DT-770's? Bass heavy but can be tamed with an EQ on your source. They are ROCK 'phones, for sure!!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Suuup - what is your source for mobile listening?
> 
> Ever tried the original DT-770's? Bass heavy but can be tamed with an EQ on your source. They are ROCK 'phones, for sure!!


 
 2 of my friends has the 770's. They're good, no doubting that. I just wanted a little more - which the 1770's gave me until they broke. Back to using my 990's I suppose. 
  
 It's just straight out of my phone so far, nothing fancy. Had an old HTC One M7, but I just got a new phone 2 days ago, a Sony Xperia Z5. Never liked Sony phones, but this one seems pretty good actually. No idea how headphones sound out of it though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My EL3N's are 70 miles away at 6:04pm...there is a chance they will actually be in my mailbox on the last day of 2015!!!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> My EL3N's are 70 miles away at 6:04pm...there is a chance they will actually be in my mailbox on the last day of 2015!!!


 
 This is exciting news! Hmm. Maybe I should make my own adapters. I could race your postal system JV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 No, have to finish the CV2535 first. Just need a 2.5V power supply. The converters aren't working though!


----------



## UntilThen

Ok let's do a 'Show me your mobile source...' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sony Walkman !!!

  
 iPod classic 160gb


 Fiio X5


 The one that got away...AKG 812. My wallet wasn't ready for it. I bought the cheaper HD650


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> My EL3N's are 70 miles away at 6:04pm...there is a chance they will actually be in my mailbox on the last day of 2015!!!


 
 I'll race you. I'll swim out to get my adapters.
  
 I'm starting to miss my DT880 Pro....


----------



## DecentLevi

I keep checking in to see if any of you guys get your EL3N and adapter so I can read your impressions. But hopefully you can keep in mind about the 'new toy syndrome' - that is, be objective about the results of your new toy, and compare it with other similar products (perhaps compare to the stock tubes), to really quantify the differences in sound.
  
Happy 2016!


----------



## UntilThen

@B-60  you're right !!! I didn't even know it has optical out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sony Walkman D-EJ955.
  
 Line output (stereo minijack)
  
 Headphone (stereo minijack)
  
 Optical digital output


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> I keep checking in to see if any of you guys get your EL3N and adapter so I can read your impressions. But hopefully you can keep in mind about the 'new toy syndrome' - that is, be objective about the results of your new toy, and compare it with other similar products (perhaps compare to the stock tubes), to really quantify the differences in sound.
> 
> Happy 2016!


 

 We're never objective. We're subjective diehards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know my favourite drivers sound by hard now. So I'll pop in the EL3N ... but should let it burn in for at least 4 hours. That is if my Elise last 4 hours with the strapped triodes.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> @B-60  you're right !!! I didn't even know it has optical out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Only very best of the Sony Portable CD players had optical out, That is very special unit....NICE!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Only very best of the Sony Portable CD players had optical out, That is very special unit....NICE!


 

 Well it's very old...not in production anymore....and very new (condition). I found it in my storage box after all these years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now all I need is a portable turntable. You hear that? @JazzVinyl


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Postlady dropped off a package today
  
  
 EL3N came yesterday then adapters
  
 First 5 Mins impression
  
 Sparks everywhere, detail, detail, detail everywhere, quality bass to put all details together. ... wow wow wow
 Better detail than C3Gs,  less forward than Fdd20s and I am pairing with 5998.

 Very impressive for first 5 mins.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> This is exciting news! Hmm. Maybe I should make my own adapters. I could race your postal system JV.
> 
> No, have to finish the CV2535 first. Just need a 2.5V power supply. The converters aren't working though! :angry_face:




It took a *LOT* of turns of the little screw before anything happened on my voltage converter Suuup...


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Postlady dropped off a package today
> 
> 
> EL3N came yesterday then adapters
> ...




Wow!!!

Citizenlin beat us all to the punch!

Yeah!! We know the adapters WORK!!!

Glad to hear they are impressing!!

*This is VERY EXCITING, Y'all!!!*


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Postlady dropped off a package today
> 
> 
> EL3N came yesterday then adapters
> ...


 
 WOW bless you CL. You tested it and your Elise is still alive !!!
  
 That is amazing news. Mrs XuLing got my instructions from @hypnos1 right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
  
 Hooray !!! 
  
 Did you say impressive???? Really? Like really really???
  
*I'm celebrating tonight to this good news.*


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> Postlady dropped off a package today
> 
> 
> EL3N came yesterday then adapters
> ...



Hey CL, long time no see. This came as a surprise. Everyone is missing a piece and here you come, out of the blue. 

Good to hear you like it. Guess I should just go ahead and order the adapters, now that we have confirmation that they work. 

Cheers.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

JV and UT
  
 I just open the package  and put them on , I didn't even pray before turn on the power. Pewwww
 Sparks everywhere... like fireworks show and yet very analog sound (firework sparks made of snow flakes?????))
 As big as Fdd20s soundstage


----------



## UntilThen

@CITIZENLIN  did you get the C3G adapters?


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> JV and UT
> 
> I just open the package  and put them on , I didn't even pray before turn on the power. Pewwww
> Sparks everywhere... like fireworks show and yet very analog sound (firework sparks made of snow flakes?????))
> As big as Fdd20s soundstage


 

 Wait, wait, wait....what sparks? Like real sparks???


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> It took a *LOT* of turns of the little screw before anything happened on my voltage converter Suuup...



Did yours come with LEDs? Mine has buttons to adjust the voltage. It has the small screw too though. I think I've done about 30 revolutions now and nothing seems to change.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Suuup
  
 I am loving it right this moment.  Yes , Adapter works great and no hum. I have faith in Mrs X.  hahah


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Did yours come with LEDs? Mine has buttons to adjust the voltage. It has the small screw too though. I think I've done about 30 revolutions now and nothing seems to change.




Yes, buttons, one is on/off the other is input/output voltage to be shown on the LED. 

Maybe you have the LED set to show the input voltage?


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Suuup
> 
> I am loving it right this moment.  Yes , Adapter works great and no hum. I have faith in Mrs X.  hahah




VERY VERY VERY nice CL!!

Thank you for the confirmation that all is well in Elise/EL3N land!!!

*WOW!!!*


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hahahha, No
  
 Detail, detail
  
 I was listening to "Suite Espanola-Austurias"


untilthen said:


> Wait, wait, wait....what sparks? Like real sparks???


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 *wake up !!! It's alive.* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks CL for being the first to try it and confirming that the adapters works and works perfectly. What a way to end the year. Before I get too tipsy, here's wishing everyone a


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, buttons, one is on/off the other is input/output voltage to be shown on the LED.
> 
> Maybe you have the LED set to show the input voltage?



It shows input voltage as 12.3 and output as 10.9. I have to press the right button for 2 seconds, which makes the display blink. I can then press the button to increment or decrement the voltage. The golden screw on the blue box does nothing. 

Anyway, it's time to go to bed now. Already 6.30 AM. Been working all night. 

See you in 2016! Happy new year.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> @CITIZENLIN  did you get the C3G adapters?


 

 No, I did not get C3g adapters. I am still using the ones from Collin.
 Thanks to you and Collin for EL3N adventure.
 El3N, I have play 11 o'clock vs Fdd20s at little less than 10 o'clock.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> It shows input voltage as 12.3 and output as 10.9. I have to press the right button for 2 seconds, which makes the display blink. I can then press the button to increment or decrement the voltage. The golden screw on the blue box does nothing.
> 
> Anyway, it's time to go to bed now. Already 6.30 AM. Been working all night.
> 
> See you in 2016! Happy new year.


 
  Happy New Year to you Suuuup.
 Finally your ECC31 got a rest thanks to EL3N


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1
> *wake up !!! It's alive.*
> 
> Thanks CL for being the first to try it and confirming that the adapters works and works perfectly.




*Happy New Year, UT!!*


----------



## aqsw

Looks like my lcds are sold. 
Looking for info from beyer guys. 

Beyer T1 for x dollars

Or 

Beyer T1.2 for x+$150.00.

What do you guys think?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 *wake up !!! It's alive.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Happy New Year *UntilThen!!!!*


----------



## CITIZENLIN

b-60 said:


> Happy New Year *UntilThen!!!!*


 
 HAPPY NEW YEAR  Collin & UT


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> Looks like my lcds are sold.
> Looking for info from beyer guys.
> 
> Beyer T1 for x dollars
> ...



Haven't heard G2, but I'd personally pick G1. Pretty sure @hypnos1 says the same.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm still here. Just had a shower...the EL3N news is making me hot !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wow aqsw, you sold the LCD2.2 just like that? Get the T1 original, save the money. From H1's descriptions of the EL3N, I don't think you'll need the Gen 2 bass...but since you just came from LCD2.2, I think you might need the Gen 2. Confusing?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Big , Bigger than Big    3D, holographic
  
 Leonard Cohen, My secret life track,
 Backup singers are more vivid holographic and huge and controlled bass compare to Fdd20s.
 Spanish Harlem by Rebecca track
  
 You can tell distinct differences on each shaker sounds. WOWO WOW, Collin wasn't imagining or over stating. Wow What a bass and detail without sacrificing silky mid.
  
 If you FDD20 or 2031 are 10
 EL3N is 11.5  as of now (almost two hours in)
 Beyer T1 G1+ EL3N = match made in heaven
  
 I am mostly playing Elise as Preamp and pairing with SS power Amp.
 EVERYTHING(speakers, amp, the wall) DISAPPEARED WHEN MUSIC IS ON. When I closed my eyes and listen I'd forget that I am listing in my livingroom. WOW WOW WOW OW WOWOWOWOWO NO JOKES. WOW
 The best yet.......


----------



## UntilThen

^ Omg those are my 2 favourite songs for auditioning. I'll be hallucinating from now until those adapters shows up.
  
 I'm glad I bought 3 pairs of Philips EL3N PTT NOS.
  
 You're using 5998 as powers? If so, I know what to expect now. Too good to be true.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> ^ Omg those are my 2 favourite songs for auditioning. I'll be hallucinating from now until those adapters shows up.
> 
> I'm glad I bought 3 pairs of Philips EL3N PTT NOS.
> 
> You're using 5998 as powers? If so, I know what to expect now. Too good to be true.


 
 5998 + EL3N.
 If you are into classical music, you are in for a treat. I am not but I am enjoying it.
  
 I am not kidding , everything disappeared , just you and the music. This is really creepy.


----------



## UntilThen

When you say midrange is less forward than fdd20, is it similar to 6sn7 then?

Do you still get the 6n7g 'wall of sound' hitting you?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

UT & JV
  
  
 I hope you get those adapters tomorrow I am crazy happy listening to whatever I put on play list. Can't wait for your impression on this combo.
 THANK YOU UT for discovering EL3N. THANK YOU Collin for your bravery.\
  
  
 HAPPY NEW YEAR


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> When you say midrange is less forward than fdd20, is it similar to 6sn7 then?
> 
> Do you still get the 6n7g 'wall of sound' hitting you?


 
 UT
  
 I meant stage is less forward not midrang. EL3N doesn't look like it needs long burn in time. Already tight (mid and low) bass. Sound stage is huuuuuuge and holographic. WOW amazing


----------



## UntilThen

CL, I have not seen you this excited before.

It must be really good. The rest of us are in for a real treat.

Can you give an impression using HD650 with that combo?

I won't get it tomorrow. Its New Year's Day


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Listening
  
 Too Rich For My Blood by Patricia Barber.
  
 Now This is hauntingly good


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> CL, I have not seen you this excited before.
> 
> It must be really good. The rest of us are in for a real treat.
> 
> ...


 
 I've not tried HD650 yet.but I really like HD650 with 5998&c3gs combo not so much with  6n7g, FDD20 or 2031.


----------



## UntilThen

Pretty much my thoughts too. Which is why I use HE560 mainly now.

Just wanting you to give an impression of Hd650 with EL3N for those using that headphone.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

UT
  
 Beyond excitement , this is crazy good. I hope you guys get your adapters soon. Then you can tell me that I am not crazy. Now I can understand how Collin felt when he was listening to EL3N.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Pretty much my thoughts too. Which is why I use HE560 mainly now.
> 
> Just wanting you to give an impression of Hd650 with EL3N for those using that headphone.


 
 Ok UT
  
 Just for you. You might change your mind after you listen to HD650 with EL3N.
 I am listening to Take the power back by rage against the machine. A hint of C3gs but better bass.... way tighter bass. Mid bass is crazy sick. WOW... I am sold on HD650 and EL3N on this track.
  
 WOW Thanks UT ,
  
 I am listening to slippery people by Taking Head. I am on another planet. Now HD650 is getting play time. Its 12:23 am here , I think I am going turk myself to bed with HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Ok UT
> 
> Just for you. You might change your mind after you listen to HD650 with EL3N.
> I am listening to Take the power back by rage against the machine. A hint of C3gs but better bass.... way tighter bass. Mid bass is crazy sick. WOW... I am sold on HD650 and EL3N on this track.
> ...


 

 Oh get real lol. I'm about to buy a nearly new 1st gen T1. Hopefully the buyer hasn't sold it already. MINT condition. 
  
 Oh well I'll keep the HD650 even if I get the T1 lol.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah, I can assure you that an exceedingly high percentage of people who have left their HD 650 regret it.
  
@CITIZENLIN I'm really enjoying reading your impressions of pairings on the EL3N. Must be some magic voodoo in those tubes, or maybe it's alien technology. Seriously I'm a paranormal fanboy. That would also be interesting to know about the tonality - hopefully everything is tonally correct.
  
 That's totally cool too that it's getting you to listen to styles that you don't even like. How many others here are 'guilty' of listening to a style they don't necessarily enjoy, just for the sound quality of your rig?


----------



## UntilThen

When I get a new gear or tubes, I'll reach for my Chesky recordings or Closer To The Music series CDs. One particularly good classic rock recording is the Eagles 'Hell Freezes Over' album. This is very well recorded and a treat on a good system.


----------



## bazelio

So, bummer on the ETHER-C distorting.  I'd been thinking about the Elise as a work amp and have also been really interested in the ETHER-C as a closed phone for the office.
  
 So now, I guess the decision is:
  
 Elise+LCD-XC or BW+ETHER-C
  
 Hummmm....


----------



## tjw321

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent - I only slept 3 hours last night. I couldn't stop listening to my Bimby/Elise combo. If you get a chance, you should listen to them together.
  
 Also, after hearing from CL that the adapters work I immediately tried to order them. But...
  

  
 D'oh!


----------



## UntilThen

bazelio said:


> So, bummer on the ETHER-C distorting.  I'd been thinking about the Elise as a work amp and have also been really interested in the ETHER-C as a closed phone for the office.
> 
> So now, I guess the decision is:
> 
> ...


 
 I'm still not sure what's causing the distortion in aqsw's case. I would like to try an Ether-C on my Elise if I can borrow a pair.
  


tjw321 said:


> Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent - I only slept 3 hours last night. I couldn't stop listening to my Bimby/Elise combo. If you get a chance, you should listen to them together.
> 
> Also, after hearing from CL that the adapters work I immediately tried to order them. But...
> 
> ...


 
 Yes MrsX is on holiday till the 5th Jan. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All in good time TJ.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi @bazelio
  
 Feliks Audio manual says supported headphone impedance range for Elise is 32 to 600 ohms. 
  
 HE560 at 35ohms works perfectly with Elise. There's power aplenty to drive it really well.
  
 Ether-C is 23ohms and LCD-XC is 20ohms. I suggest you speak to Lukasz first before proceeding.


----------



## UntilThen

9pm fireworks started at the Harbour Bridge. Another main fireworks at 12 midnight.
  
 Happy New Year once again everyone. I'm going to watch it on TV with some potent liquid.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 *wake up !!! It's alive.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
_*WOW, WOW, and WOW again!!!...*_Trust me to be up late this gorgeous morning. And what a fabulous lead up to the New Year!, courtesy of @CITIZENLIN...what can I say?....except...*I TOLD YOU SO!!! *(shan't rub it in any more - I'm too ecstatic already!!...*THANK YOU, CL*. I'm *so* glad that a) the adapters _work, _and b) I wasn't imagining what I was hearing, lol! You have renewed my faith in my poor ol' ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  
 So then, UT...what d'ya say, mon ami? (Reckon your excitement is just about getting you to inco pad level now, yo??!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Kiss goodbye to the Visseaux, FDDs, ECCs, Mazdas, C3gs...I'm crying for you already, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Enough for now...(I did tell you to get your row boat out!! - I just hope your adapters arrive _*soonest*_...for the sake of your sanity, mon ami!).
  
*CHEERS!!!   *and  *A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!  *




  
  
  
 Quote:... 





citizenlin said:


> UT
> 
> I meant stage is less forward not midrang. EL3N doesn't look like it needs long burn in time. Already tight (mid and low) bass. Sound stage is huuuuuuge and holographic. WOW amazing


 
  
 Well well, CL....you beat 'em all to it - *WELL DONE!!!  *And thanks again for giving us your (amazing!) findings so promptly...you have really made my day...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 You like them already?..._just you wait!!_...yes, they do indeed sound good straight out of the box, and don't need as long a burn-in as the FDD20s, but they get _*even better*_ with a good few more hours on them -  11.5 after just a couple of hours?...goodness knows what your final scoring will be, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am so glad for you...and for everyone else yet to see whether we're _both_ imagining it, or not!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(however, I stick by my previous words : "shocked surprise" LOL!).
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Happy EL3N Year.


----------



## Lord Raven

*A VERY HAPPY NEW (EL3N) YEAR 2016 TO ALL MY ELISE FRIENDS *
  
 CL stole the entire show, I am really happy for him and H1 who are in heaven with their music 
  
 I am going to start his new year with no hum or noise with my Elise, EL3N stock is piling up here at my place but the adapters are riding a low tide, I will soon test and confirm that I put everything I got (drivers + powers) on sale to get more EL3N haha
  
 Right now I am in heaven with FDD20s and HD600, both brand new from Italy and Australia (Ireland actually). I have never enjoyed music the way I do now in my home like this before (thanks to the lightning strike grounding, btw it rained like hell last day and I am safe with my rig, maybe cause I spent all day out and about LOL).
  
 Lastly, I would like to extend my 'thank-you' to all the members for helping me out when I needed help  I think EL3N will be the end game for me and then I will be concentrating on other important things in my life, 2016 is going to be a very challenging year for me.
  
 Cheers, to all the lucky ones and a new year!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

PS: The seller in UK accepted my return request (single ECC31) and I got two emails from eBay that I do not understand!
  
 1>

 Hi xxxxxxxx, 

xxxxxx accepted a return for ECC31.MULLARD Audio double triode AVO VCM Mk4 Tested.. The seller should send you a return shipping label by Jan 04, 2016.

Contact the seller if you don't receive a label by then. Then just print the label and send the item back to the seller.


  
 2>

 Hi xxxxxxxx,

xxxxxx let us know that they can't buy a return shipping label for you to use for ECC31.MULLARD Audio double triode AVO VCM Mk4 Tested..

The seller is still responsible for return shipping costs, so contact them to arrange return shipping.


  
  
 What should I do, please explain. My money is at stake LOL
  
 Cheers once again!!!


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> PS: The seller in UK accepted my return request (single ECC31) and I got two emails from eBay that I do not understand!
> 
> 1>
> 
> ...


 
  
 And a *Happy EL3N New Year *to you too, LR!
  
 Looks like you need to get the seller to confirm* via ebay messages* that he will in fact reimburse your return shipping cost...shouldn't be a problem, lol...
  
 ps. It is a _faulty_ tube, I take it?...Cheers!


----------



## Lord Raven

I am glad that you are getting a complete refund, and feel bad for the time wasted. This happens sometimes while online shopping. I had a terrible experience with Amazon as well, I used their trial Prime membership for free, when it ended (recently), they still charged me with the total amount on my credit card. I talked to support and then said that the bank will refund it, 3 days now and there is no refund. 79 GBP on stake, I am talking to them right now and I am hopeful to get a refund. All I ever bought from Amazon is the 12V battery I used to power the heating circuit. This is terrible customer support, I have deleted my credit card from their site!
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> I'm done. Never will I ever deal with Amazon again. Full story here:
> 
> I order a pair of 1770 from Amazon directly for 400$ (using a 20% promo code). It says out of stock, but I'm optimistic (a month till Christmas).
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> And a *Happy EL3N New Year *to you too, LR!
> 
> Looks like you need to get the seller to confirm* via ebay messages* that he will in fact reimburse your return shipping cost...shouldn't be a problem, lol...
> 
> ps. It is a _faulty_ tube, I take it?...Cheers!


 
 Thank you H1!  I will contact him, I don't want to send the broken tube back though, what will he do with it?
  
 What do you mean, you take it?


----------



## Lord Raven

Congratulations on EL3N successful testing CL, you stole the entire show 
  
 A very happy EL3N year to you, I wish to start a new year with those but it will take some time for me I guess.
  
 Quote:


citizenlin said:


> Postlady dropped off a package today
> 
> 
> EL3N came yesterday then adapters
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

You're blowing all our secrets, UT LOL  Looks like the T1's are going to make it on to my wishlist soon hehe
  
 However, I felt I did not really enjoyed the round cups. I might have to give them a second chance at the store 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> That's a very bad experience. I'm now pretty sure that when buying an expensive headphones I'll do it only in a walk in store, where I can try it and pay for the price I know it to be. Walk in stores are more expensive but you get personalise service, plus you get to audition as many headphones as you like.
> 
> There's a big store here called 'Addicted to Audio' which has all the high end headphones and amps. This is where LR ordered his HD600. There's also Minidisc in Sydney, where I bought all my headphones except the HE560 which my son bought from Japan.
> 
> Suuup, get the refund and buy a HE560.



  
 Are you bidding again? LOL Let me see what I can do to help you haha
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Don't touch my GEC 6AS7G and bid against me or I'll chase you around the globe.
> 
> Btw 5998 and GEC 6AS7G are not alike entirely. So I think you need both.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Thank you H1!  I will contact him, I don't want to send the broken tube back though, what will he do with it?
> 
> What do you mean, you take it?


 
 To get the refund, you have to return the item. Have you tried it in Elise? It could still work. 
  
 You should send the seller a message over Ebay. It seems he isn't able to buy a prepaid label for you. He'll probably ask you to ship it to him, and then he'll reimburse you the shipping costs.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> To get the refund, you have to return the item. Have you tried it in Elise? It could still work.
> 
> You should send the seller a message over Ebay. It seems he isn't able to buy a prepaid label for you. He'll probably ask you to ship it to him, and then he'll reimburse you the shipping costs.


 
 Brother, I don't want it anymore. It works but with a noticeable hum, which could be the tube or the adapter.
  
 I have to return it? What is with the return shipping label that the seller could not buy from eBay? I still don't get it, they want me to contact the seller.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Brother, I don't want it anymore. It works but with a noticeable hum, which could be the tube or the adapter.
> 
> I have to return it? What is with the return shipping label that the seller could not buy from eBay? I still don't get it, they want me to contact the seller.


 
 Normally the seller would buy a prepaid return label. It's a piece of paper you print out and stick on the package. This way you just have to drop off the package at your post office. For some reason, he cannot buy this return label, probably because you're in the KSA. 
  
 What you should do now is: 
 Send a message to the seller, asking about what to do. 
  
 What his answer will most likely be:
 You pay for the shipping to him, and once he receives it, he will refund you the amount you paid for shipping.


----------



## aqsw

Bought a barely used T1. Even made some money between the two sales. I'm going to miss my LCDs. I had them for three good years. Oh Well, Onward we go.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> Bought a barely used T1. Even made some money between the two sales. I'm going to miss my LCDs. I had them for three good years. Oh Well, Onward we go.


 
 Congratulations Aqsw! I really don't think you'll regret it. When will you receive them? I hope there will be no more distortion for you.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Normally the seller would buy a prepaid return label. It's a piece of paper you print out and stick on the package. This way you just have to drop off the package at your post office. For some reason, he cannot buy this return label, probably because you're in the KSA.
> 
> What you should do now is:
> Send a message to the seller, asking about what to do.
> ...


 
 Thank you Suuup, I will write to him asking what to do next?
  
 I wish to get my money back and buy more EL3N tubes from Holland and keep piling the stock


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Thank you Suuup, I will write to him asking what to do next?
> 
> I wish to get my money back and buy more EL3N tubes from Holland and keep piling the stock


 
 Don't buy all of them! I want another pair or 2. Just don't have the funds until February.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Don't buy all of them! I want another pair or 2. Just don't have the funds until February.


 
 LOL don't worry brother  Looks like my 79 GBP are coming back soon, meaning, more EL3N tubes haha
  
 BTW, what is the life of a single pair, if you don't break them by yourself


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> LOL don't worry brother  Looks like my 79 GBP are coming back soon, meaning, more EL3N tubes haha
> 
> BTW, what is the life of a single pair, if you don't break them by yourself


 
 I'd expect about 4000 hours of use, but it depends heavily on how often you turn on/off the amp. It is better to have it running for 5 hours straight than 2+2 hours.
  
 Also, I believe the C3g was rated at 10,000 hours of use. It was also known as a very long lived tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I'm in 2016 now. I woke up in time to watch the midnight fireworks on TV, then came into my study to make sure Elise is still there and that it wasn't a dream in 2015. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Who would have thought that the quiet @CITIZENLIN would spring a surprise on us all, with a 'spark, spark, spark' announcement on EL3Ns. I for one, am exceedingly happy that the adapters work and that MrsX followed the instructions exactly. It didn't matter to me who gets to try out the adapters first, although as one who initiated it with MrsX, I felt responsible that I should test it first, in case the pin's are not connected correctly and cause undue damage to someone's Elise. It all turn out good so that's fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I still have to test the C3G adapters when they arrive, although I'm quite confident now that MrsX has understood what was required.
  
 On behalf of the community, I have to thank @hypnos1 for generously sharing the wiring instructions and making it available to an eBay seller, to create those adapters for everyone. Thanks H1. Once again, you've pioneered a gem of a tube for us. This one might take a long while to beat, if at all, from the sound of it.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

LR, don't stock pile on the EL3Ns. Next month, H1 will discover a more superior tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 aqsw, you didn't buy the T1 that I was keen on, I hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think so, as what I had in mind is from down under. The seller is obviously celebrating the New Year. I have not heard from him since I wrote to him 3 hours before the end of 2015 lol.
  
 I've been reading a lot on T1's review in comparison with the HD800. I think they are both great dynamic headphones. The main draw card on the T1 original is the exceedingly low cost now as compared to when it was first introduced. If I do get the T1, I will surely be very keen to test it out against the HE560. It will be interesting to see how they compare with Elise in the driver's seat.


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Thank you H1!  I will contact him, I don't want to send the broken tube back though, what will he do with it?
> 
> What do you mean, *you take it?*


 
  
 Ah sorry, LR...an expression of ours, meaning - "that's what you meant?"...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> LR, don't stock pile on the EL3Ns.* Next month, H1 will discover a more superior tube*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh no he won't..._*this is it, lol!!!*_





..._please, please_ don't go finding any more nice-looking tubes, UT...I'm *retiring!*...henceforth!!
  
 And just how many tubes d'ya think are out there that can trounce the FDD20 and ECC31 (ECC32/CV181) this side of $200 plus...and that we can actually use, lol?!!... Probably several lifetimes' search, I would imagine!!...CHEERS!
  
 ps. Good luck with the T1s...(and GECs??!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## UntilThen

In the space of several short months, we've discovered so many good sounding driver tubes for Elise. All breathtaking in their sonic abilities.
  
 My lovely collections of Mazda, Visseaux, Fivre, Mullard and Philips Miniwatt FDD20 are almost redundant now. I cannot imagine that I paid $200 for a pair of Mullard ECC31, only to find cheaper tubes performing equal to or better.
  
 No more tubes for now. Time to discover what another headphone can do. Then it's purely listening and enjoying music. 2016 sure looks exciting, especially with more Elise owners coming onboard and sharing their experiences. This hobby is too much fun.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> In the space of several short months, we've discovered so many good sounding driver tubes for Elise. All breathtaking in their sonic abilities.
> 
> My lovely collections of Mazda, Visseaux, Fivre, Mullard and Philips Miniwatt FDD20 are almost redundant now. I cannot imagine that I paid $200 for a pair of Mullard ECC31, only to find cheaper tubes performing equal to or better.
> 
> No more tubes for now. Time to discover what another headphone can do. Then it's purely listening and enjoying music. 2016 sure looks exciting, especially with more Elise owners coming onboard and sharing their experiences. This hobby is too much fun.


 
  
 Hey UT...isn't it 2.55 _*am*_ down your way?...why aren't you *asleep?!*...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...isn't it 2.55 _*am*_ down your way?...why aren't you *asleep?!*...


 

 I slept for 2 hours then got up at midnight to watch the fireworks.   Listening to music now with the Fivre 6N7G brown base and 5998. Such a lovely combo. This is keeping me smiling until I actually get the EL3Ns working on my Elise. Then I'll have to imitate CL on his 'sparks' 
  
 CL really got me worried when he said sparks, sparks, sparks. I thought his amp blew up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Tracking says I will get my EL3N's today! So will ring in the new year here in a very special way!

Thank you UT....!!!!!
Thank you H1....!!!!!
Thank You Mrs Xu Ling....!!!!!
Thank you CL....!!!!!

We are the LUCKY ones....!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Tracking says I will get my EL3N's today! So will ring in the new year here in a very special way!
> 
> Thank you UT....!!!!!
> Thank you H1....!!!!!
> ...


 

 We thank you for the FDD20 adapters. I remembered you took the trouble to hook up the FDD20 into the adapter and send it to me and ask me to try it. I remember all the jokes about wearing eye patches. 
  
 It's been a good year JV and I'm really glad that you'll get to try EL3Ns today.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I slept for 2 hours then got up at midnight to watch the fireworks.   Listening to music now with the Fivre 6N7G brown base and 5998. Such a lovely combo. This is keeping me smiling until I actually get the EL3Ns working on my Elise. Then I'll have to imitate CL on his 'sparks'
> 
> CL really got me worried when he said sparks, sparks, sparks. I thought his amp blew up.


 
  
 Wow, UT...you really are one dedicated Elise-lover!...an example to us all...(???!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...
  
 ps.  When I mentioned $200+ tubes, I should have said - _*each, lol!!!...*_


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Bought a barely used T1. Even made some money between the two sales. I'm going to miss my LCDs. I had them for three good years. Oh Well, Onward we go.


 
  
 WELL DONE! aqsw...a _*doubly*_ happy start to the New Year...CHEERS!...


----------



## bazelio

untilthen said:


> Hi @bazelio
> 
> 
> Feliks Audio manual says supported headphone impedance range for Elise is 32 to 600 ohms.
> ...




Yeah the ETHER-C is 23 Ohm and 90 db sensitivity. So probably not a good pairing. Interestingly, folks are reporting that the MicroZOTL2 pairs well with the ETHER-C. But it has a 2 Ohm output impedence.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

folks ,
  
 EL3N .THE REAL DEAL
  
 Very detail like SS yet sounds like analog.
 Highlight is sound stage is hauntingly good. You just have to hear it. Describing it doesn't do justices.
  
 No hum, runs cooler than FDD20s
 I left it on last night, when I woke up this morning, I checked the temps on each tube and Elise
  
 5998s...... 75-80c
 FL3N....... 28-30c
 Elise ...... 22c
  
 Listening to   DONDE ESTABAS TU BY Omara Portuondo early this morning
 This track is very analog sounding piece. My feet started tapping and started dancing (me???? terrible dancer/singer and no... I don't understand a word of what she was singing. JUST MUSIC , Elise, EL3N


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Tracking says I will get my EL3N's today! So will ring in the new year here in a very special way!
> 
> Thank you UT....!!!!!
> Thank you H1....!!!!!
> ...


 
 I hope you receive those "missing link" today. You are in for surprise treat. I'll tell you that you ears are not prepared for EL3N.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> LR, don't stock pile on the EL3Ns. Next month, H1 will discover a more superior tube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No, I got mine from a fellow Canadian.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Ok. I want you to use your stock tubes completely. That is, use both stock power and drivers tubes. Then test again. See if you get distortion at 1:30 or more.
> 
> It's hard for me to verify whether mine distorts at high volume because if my source is max, I cannot go past 1 pm on Elise without destroying my ears. However as I said I can reduce my source volume to almost zero...say 1 then I can turn Elise volume to max...and I can listen to the music clearly without distortion. This is with FDD20 and 5998.
> 
> I wish @jerick70 is here to confirm because he has the LCD2.2 and the 1st impression he gave me was very good. He did not mention distortion and I think he had it at 1pm.


 

 Hi Everyone,
  
 Sorry I've been MIA for a while because of Christmas.  We have all of our relatives over to our house every year an have a huge shindig.  No time to listen to Elise unfortunately.
  
@aqsw On your issues with distortion.  I have no problems at all like that at high volumes.  I tested pretty thoroughly when I got her.  Sorry to hear the you sold your LCD-2s.  I won't be selling mine for a while.    
  
 -Jeff


----------



## UntilThen

Hey guys I woke up and it's still New Year's day and Elise is still in my study. I wasn't dreaming all of last year. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Wow so many good news. Let me digest it one at a time.
  
@CITIZENLIN, you're definitely resident commentator here now. You got everyone super excited with EL3N. You're a natural. Keep it up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@aqsw, congrats once again on getting the Beyer T1. The seller replied to my PM on New Year's day. Said it's sold but he didn't have time to update the status as he was overseas. Bummer, it's a nearly new unit and going for AUD$750. It's ok. My search for another headphone will come this year. There will be no rush and impulse buying. It's either the T1 or HD800. I won't be getting another planar dynamics as I already have HE560, which I love like a Koala bear.
  
@bazelio many things deemed impossible, have been possible on Elise. As I said, I would love to have a pair of Ether-C and LCD-XC to try on Elise. So good luck on your hunt for a good sounding system for your office. Work and pleasure, that's a sure fire way to great productivity.
  
@jerick70 you're back finally. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to hear from you. Yes you were MIA but we understand. With turkeys, roast ham, champagne, BBQ, it's easy to be missing in action. But now that you're back, you're on sentry duty for a month !!! You're going to make aqsw really sad with that news. However, I think the T1 will bring him super comfort. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 And jerick before I forget, a detail review of LCD2.2 with Elise on my desk (on this thread) before Valentine's day or I'll take that LCD2.2 off you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh don't you forget to buy yourself a pair of EL3N and adapters.
  
 ps next year I'm coming to your shindig. 
  
 Sob !!! This was what I wanted to get but it's sold.


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl, do you have this?
  
 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/94812-fs-mfsl-beatles-boxset-the-collection-mint-–-holy-grail/


----------



## hypnos1

citizenlin said:


> folks ,
> 
> EL3N .THE REAL DEAL
> 
> ...


 
  
 A "Real Deal" indeed, CL - that these (very!) modestly priced tubes can perform at this level is truly amazing. They, like the Beyer T1s, were just made for the Elise...or is it the other way round, lol?! Together, they are - as you say - managing to actually _achieve_ what so many _claim _to do...ie. deliver a sound that combines the better qualities of Solid State with those of analog. And yes, in a way that is hard to put across in mere words - you _do_ "just have to hear it"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 (which is precisely what I hope others will be doing _*very*_ soon, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps.  A bit risky, leaving a tube amp unattended for that long! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but certainly confirmed just how cool Elise runs with the EL3Ns in place!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and that's without the need for an external power supply..._*lovely!!*_
  
 HAPPY LISTENING....


----------



## UntilThen

Who would have thought that Mrs XuLing replied to me personally via email on New Year's day. 
  
 I enquired about my adapters. She told me that for US customers, it will take 10 working days but elsewhere it will take 15 - 25 working days for delivery. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I'm the first to have my adapters shipped out (13th Dec tracking says) and it's still doing around the world trip. Oh well Mrs Xu Ling is so lovely. She said not to worry. If it's lost, she'll send me another 24K gold ones. That's for EL3N and C3G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Aren't we fortunate to have a personal adapter maker and seller for Elise.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Hey guys I woke up and it's still New Year's day and Elise is still in my study. I wasn't dreaming all of last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes I'm back. Today for a short time though, it's my Wife's birthday today.  We have so many holidays in December in my house it's hard to do anything else with work thrown in there.  I'll be on more in the coming days, weeks, and months for sure.  Elise is so good I have to share my experiences.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@aqsw is going to be sad.  Even if the LCD-2 was problematic at high volume I still would keep it.  It sounds Soooooo good at lower volumes on Elise.  I can't listen at higher volumes anyway.
  
 I have the quote for the EL3Ns.  Hopefully he has some in stock still.
  
 I am planning a review of the LCD-2s and the Elise.  I still have to burn her in though.
  
 UT, you are welcome anytime to my shindigs.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Those are beautiful headphones.  And the stand is breathtaking.  Are those the new or old T1s?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Yes I'm back. Today for a short time though, it's my Wife's birthday today.  We have so many holidays in December in my house it's hard to do anything else with work thrown in there.  I'll be on more in the coming days, weeks, and months for sure.  Elise is so good I have to share my experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They are the original T1, stand or DAC (that is an expensive DAC make like a stand) not included but it's SOLD at AUD$750 or roughly US$550 !!! Belongs to a reviewer of audio gear down under. It has original box and in MINT condition. Ok, no matter..I'll look for something later. Maybe a HD800 ? 
  
 Jerick, I'm really coming to your shindig. Along with aqsw, all the way from Winnipeg, on a Burson whatever that is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Whatever you do, don't forget to buy 2 pairs of EL3Ns. One pair for you and one pair for your wife hahaha.
  
 ps:- This is the stand or DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is a more expensive model but same shape.
 https://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/auralic-gemini-1000-stand-with-dac-and-headphone-amplifier


----------



## UntilThen

I close my eyes as Norah Jones sings right into my ears. This is how good the Fivre 6N7G brown base are. Thanks @Suuup . I feel like I don't need EL3Ns with these...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @CITIZENLIN, and all those eagerly awaiting their own experience of the EL3N...that "hard to put in words" statement has suddenly had a _very_ bright light shone on it, courtesy of another midnight session, plus Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours' and Barbra Streisand's 'Guilty' albums - *ie. could have sworn I was* *listening to pristine vinyl, not CD!!*...but without a single click, plop, thud, hint of hiss...just deathly, black, background _silence_..._*sheer heaven!*_...How can this be?...My state of confounded confusion is now complete, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Goodnight to you all...and welcome to 2016....CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps. Final confirmation of the* 'vinyl' sound* - my acid test...Annie Lennox's "No more I love you's", and Alison Moyet's "All cried out", which on CD are usually especially prone to its main drawbacks. Have just been able to listen to them both at the highest volume I have ever managed without wincing, and without losing any sparkle or treble energy and detail. Complete...utter...total...confounded...confusion!!
  
 I need to get to my bed...BFN...


----------



## supersonic395

So I'll be receiving the Beyer T1.2 headphones on Sunday, but no way to adequately power them...and I don't want to sully the experience by plugging them directly into my current (low low powered) audio devices.
  
 What a situation!
  
 Elise, you're my only hope


----------



## UntilThen

From the brown base to the Philips Miniwatt FDD20, I'm astounded how good these 12V powered drivers are. I think they eclipsed the brown base just. The venerable FDD20 are entertaining me now. If Elise is sounding like a high end tube amp, it's because of these drivers with 5998. It's such a euphonic musical presentation. This is tube sound in all its glory. I'm a fan of female vocalist and what I'm hearing now through my HE560 is pure bliss. Bass is tight and controlled without over powering the midrange, whilst the treble maintains the clear high notes. It's a musical whole. 
  
 Now EL3N, bring it on. I really need to know what your hype is all about. You're in the company of aristocratic drivers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@supersonic395 you can bring your T1 G2 to my house on Monday and we'll find out what this Gen 2 is all about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Hmmm 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina' by Madonna ...superb from this combo. One of the few songs I like Madonna singing. She can sing delicate songs. So much emotions I'm crying for Argentina.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> @supersonic395
> you can bring your T1 G2 to my house on Monday and we'll find out what this Gen 2 is all about. :bigsmile_face:






Well...do you live in London? 

I had to go for the Gen 2 (dat bass) as earlier I was going to get the original but the Gen 2 won out 

I can't wait to pump Achilles Last Stand (amongst many many other albums) through the Elise and T1.2

And I'm also thinking to try watching some blu rays with the audio eventually running through the Elise & T1.2...I wonder what the best way to do this would be...hmm.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Well...do you live in London?
> 
> I had to go for the Gen 2 (dat bass) as earlier I was going to get the original but the Gen 2 won out
> 
> ...


 
 London to Sydney no problem...
  
 In 1985 - Feb 13
 A chartered Concorde sets a new London to Sydney record of 17 hours 3 minutes.
  
 You should be here in no time.
  
 Achilles Last Stand by Led Zeppelin?  
  
 Hmmm blue ray... perhaps you can try but I don't know if it will work. I know with the below a CD player works superb. 
 blue ray player to Elise (preamp) to Amplifier to speakers or your headphone.
  
 Do me a favour...before you try Elise as preamp, just listen to your T1 G2 direct from Elise and tell me what you think about *dat bass*...


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> London to Sydney no problem...
> 
> In 1985 - Feb 13
> A chartered Concorde sets a new London to Sydney record of 17 hours 3 minutes.
> ...




Let me just get Richard Branson on the phone and tell him to sort me a trip to Sydney. Minor thing 

Yup, Led Zeppelin! I especially like Achilles Last Stand (well I like all of their work)

Yup that sounds about right re blu rays!

Of course, I'll be listening to the T1.2 with Elise as the amp for sure. I don't plan to use it as a preamp...yet
But for sure I'll post impressions based on the vanilla Elise experience!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have my EL3N's up and running with 5998's

Was *NOT* blown away immediately....but.... 

2 hours in (almost) and things are already opening up. They are increasing in gain. And sounding *MUCH* better than my initial impression (they have been asleep for *70 years*, or so, after all).

Compared to 2x FDD20 and there is a *BIG BIG* difference.

EL3N have* TONS* more bass, more going on in the mids and a slightly recessed treble compared to FDD20.

Same song sounds *TOTALLY* different in the* EL3N vs FDD20* (as tube amps do...you notice *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS* in switching between these driver tubes).

Also....I like the *EL3N's* better via my* Sennheiser 580's* than I do my Beyer *DT-990's* and this is a first...Senn's so lonely, came close to being sold off, but oh boy...not now!

*Anxious to hear what 4 hours brings...*

The red paint at bottom...already coming off...it's *very* fragile...!!

Listening to the *BEST RECORDED* (sound quality wise) CD that I own:

*Mark Egan's "As We Speak"* (a fretless bass player) recorded in his home studio about 45 minutes west of NYC...I have written him multiple times and "Ga Ga 'ed" over the incredible "Analog Like" Sound Quality...it's *Outstandingly* well recorded and mastered.

http://www.amazon.com/As-We-Speak-Mark-Egan/dp/B000I6B8Z2/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1437839530&sr=1-10

*Cheers Peeps!!* And *Happy 2016!!!*


----------



## UntilThen

Tell Richard Branson I'll sell him my humphrey Elise for one million pounds. It's better than an airline !!!
  
 I like Led Zep's older albums.. Led Zeppelin IV Remastered. Black Dog !!! 
  
 Hey hey mama .... rest of lyrics *censored* !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

*....A BIG LEGGED WOMAN AIN'T GOT NO SOUL....*​


----------



## supersonic395

I like all of their albums and now some additional tracks courtesy of the recent remasters


----------



## UntilThen

Omg JV, do your impressions of EL3Ns and stop corrupting the minds of the young ones here with those lyrics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I want an impression now, like right now.
  
 My fav Led Zep song...Immigrant Song


----------



## JazzVinyl

I really think this is the most NATURAL sound I have gotten from the Elise. 

A tube amp adds analog to digital stored music and the EL3N extends that Analog flavor in a very positive way.

I played this:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPDaUSqW-k4[/VIDEO]

And I thought "boy, that that sounds like it coming off vinyl instead of one and zero's"...

It was *GREAT*!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Well any sparkles? Fireworks? Snowflakes? Cornflakes? I want 3 attributes that you think EL3N brings to your mind most. Ok 5 if you must...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Well any sparkles? Fireworks? Snowflakes? Cornflakes? I want 3 attributes that you think EL3N brings to your mind most. Ok 5 if you must...




Okay, 

One word sums this up:

*ORGANIC!*

Sounds real, sounds like it should sound. Sounds like the musicians are in the room...the gear disappears. and the wonderful sonics take over!


----------



## UntilThen

Organic? Sounds like home grown carrot to me. Well that's good enough.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Organic...

Instead of concrete under your feet...

This is like standing on a lush forest floor...


----------



## UntilThen

Yup I like organic. Heard it used often to describe tube amp sound. 
  
 Here's someone's take on it:-
  
_For the term 'organic', i'd say it's like a nice view out of the window during sun-rise or sunset, colourful, dramatic, full of lights and shadows, . And the term 'digital' is the same scene during mid-day when the sun is directly above.* Same *things out there but flat and usually dazzlingly bright. 

 Remember that we're talking about the same scene, so they can both be 'realistic'. 

 Tubes on the other hand can be even more dramatic, almost like viewing the scene during sunset through sets of colour filters, yeah, you'll be missing out on some fine details and the filters may even alter the original colours abit, but still, it's fun and there's more than enough to see._


----------



## JazzVinyl

Almost 4 hours in:

Wow!

These EL3N's make my Sennheiser's really sing!

I feel months of music addiction coming on!

Sounds *BEAUTIFUL*...!!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Almost 4 hours in:
> 
> Wow!
> 
> ...


 

 I should retrieve my Sennheiser HD650 from the attic?  Well maybe I don't need another headphone now. THANK YOU EL3N.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I should retrieve my Sennheiser HD650 from the attic?  Well maybe I don't need another headphone now. THANK YOU EL3N.




Yes! Your Senn will LOVE the EL3N!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes! Your Senn will LOVE the EL3N!!


 
 That's a worry. 
  
 Now will you tell me please why my Senn will LOVE the EL3N !!! I want to know the reasons why.
  
 All this talk of the Senn makes me listen to the HD650 with FDD20 and 5998 now. I must admit I miss the 'fuller' music presentation when I stayed away from the HD650. It's more organic, more luscious, creamy smooth midrange. Sure the details are less, masked by more voluptuous bass. However if you have an aversion to high trebles, you'll love this. If you love Beyer's treble, you should stay away. 
  
 Which makes me wonder.... does the EL3N restores the details, extends the trebles, gets down lower on the bass, with more impact and make the midrange even sweeter on the HD650? Is that why you said my Senn will love the EL3N?
  
 Guess the only way to find out is to wait for the adapters to arrive.
  
 Hmmm, I turn up the volume on Elise and HD650 came alive. This is with FDD20 and 5998. Don't write off this HP. It's very enjoyable now with Leonard Cohen 'In My Secret Life'.
 I heard Leonard loves HD650. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Hmmm, swapped back to the HE560 and .... this planar magnetic is the way to go. It has everything and I mean everything you ever need to enjoy music with.
 FULL STOP. Just get HE560 and Elise.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @CITIZENLIN, and all those eagerly awaiting their own experience of the EL3N...that "hard to put in words" statement has suddenly had a _very_ bright light shone on it, courtesy of another midnight session, plus Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours' and Barbra Streisand's 'Guilty' albums - ie. could have sworn I was listening to pristine vinyl, not CD!!...but without a single click, plop, thud, hint of hiss...just deathly, black, background _silence_..._*sheer heaven!*_...How can this be?...My state of confounded confusion is now complete, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am not sure who is more tired my system or myself, My my stereo had 5 hrs off time the last 24 hours. The LP + sound of EL3N made me pull out my turntable Sota Moonbean of my garage for the last 10 years.


  
 .


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> I am not sure who is more tired my system or myself, My my stereo had 5 hrs off time the last 24 hours. The LP + sound of EL3N made me pull out my turntable Sota Moonbean of my garage for the last 10 years




Wow CL!!

Congrats on the Sota!! Supposed to be a fine table, I have not heard one myself but it looks great. 

Let's get that puppy all cleaned up, lubed and the cart aligned and adjusted and spin some vinyl!!!

Lookin' Good!!


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes! Your Senn will LOVE the EL3N!!


 
 JV,
  
 Congrats the LUCKONES. Give it few more hours of listening. This is the best sounding system I've ever heard. I would have paid Elise +5998+EL3N for up to 5,000 in 1990s. I stopped listen to my Hifi system 12 years ago. Then I started getting into HP a little over two years ago. The sound of (little dot MK IV +C3gs) pairing with HD650, T1, DT880-600 then ELISE made me pulled out my big amp and speakers out of storage. I spent big chunk of wallet for those suckers. I didn't even take out my (Audioresearch LS3 ) Preamp out of storage.
 Elise+EL3N+5998 was the missing link to my perfect home system that I was looking for since I go into audiophile zone 30 years ago.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> That's a worry.
> 
> Now will you tell me please why my Senn will LOVE the EL3N !!! I want to know the reasons why.
> 
> ...





In my case...the EL3N's have TOO MUCH BASS for the DT-990's. They make my 580's sound fantastic. The Senns being thinner than the Beyers.

The EL3N's sound like the ECC31's from the bass side of things but have a much nicer midrange and treble, they are more "in balance"...

Think "that wonderful bass in the ECC31's" with the same amazement in the mids and the treble...

Will be interesting to see if you think they make the 560's sound better, or if you think they send the Senn's into galactic orbit.

Cheers!!!


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> JV,
> 
> Congrats the LUCKONES. Give it few more hours of listening. This is the best sounding system I've ever heard. I would have paid Elise +5998+EL3N for up to 5,000 in 1990s. I stopped listen to my Hifi system 12 years ago. Then I started getting into HP a little over two years ago. The sound of (little dot MK IV +C3gs) pairing with HD650, T1, DT880-600 then ELISE made me pulled out my big amp and speakers out of storage. I spent big chunk of wallet for those suckers. I didn't even take out my (Audioresearch LS3 ) Preamp out of storage.
> Elise+EL3N+5998 was the missing link to my perfect home system that I was looking for since I go into audiophile zone 30 years ago.


 

 Wow such high praise for Elise+EL3N+5998. My apologies. When I saw that turntable I thought it came from a garage sale. Sorry I don't know about turntables lol. Good to delve into your HiFi past and even more amazing that you think the modestly priced Elise + EL3N + 5998 is your missing link and nirvana bringer. Enjoy my friend. One of life's greatest joy is music heard on a good sounding system. Note I didn't say expensive sounding system. I say good sounding system.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> In my case...the EL3N's have TOO MUCH BASS for the DT-990's. They make my 580's sound fantastic. The Senns being thinner than the Beyers.
> 
> The EL3N's sound like the ECC31's from the bass side of things but have a much nicer midrange and treble, they are more "in balance"...
> 
> ...


 

 Ah HE560 bass is disciplined and controlled. It's never like the HE500 or the LCD2.2 voluptuous bass. It's more in the mould of the T1 bass than the DT990 bass. I've heard the DT990 at the shop so I've a glimpse of it's sound signature. I ended buying the DT880 instead.
  
 I think from your descriptions, I've a glimpse of what the EL3N can do. I have a feeling it will sound good on both HD650 and HE560. When I was on my Darkvoice 336se, I love a warm and dark tone but since settling down with Elise, I realise I prefer a more neutral to warm presentation. I prefer a setup with warm, speed, good transient response, clarity, details, luscious midrange and bass impact. I've almost got that with Elise+FDD20+5998+HE560. A touch more bass might make it a perfect 'Bo Derek' score of 10 !!!  
  
 So we shall see if this *E L 3 N* will give me the missing 5% of volcanic bass plus @CITIZENLIN 's sparkles.
  
 ps..soundstage + imaging as well..I keep forgetting to mention these, probably it's always there in the setup I listen to, it's taken for granted !!!
  
 There's never a moment of doubt which of my 2 headphones I prefer now. HE560's clarity, details and superb imaging wins me over like a bear to honey. If I go from HE560 to HD650, I immediately get a 'fuller' sound but with less clarity and details. I mentioned once that I walk into a HiFi shop and was really impressed by the sound I heard from a Musical Fidelity CD + Amplifier and B&W 805 setup. It's amazingly clear and details galore, at the same time the bass is intoxicatingly strong, tight and controlled. My present setup of Elise + FDD20 + 5998 + HE560 takes me to that level. This is my kind of music.


----------



## aqsw

I've got a beatles box set from the early eighties. I remember paying about $120.00.
It is at my sons house. He doesn't have turn table. I played them once to record onto cassette.
It is blue box. About 8 to 10 albums. Is that the one for sale.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I've got a beatles box set from the early eighties. I remember paying about $120.00.
> It is at my sons house. He doesn't have turn table. I played them once to record onto cassette.
> It is blue box. About 8 to 10 albums. Is that the one for sale.


 

 Is this what you have? This set on sale is AUD$1100. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OMG it might be the one you've. Early eighties did you say? This is 1982.
  

  

  
It is the first press run in 1982 *#2372* of 11,734 made in *1982* not the repress which occurred from *1983-1985* (number 11,735 to 25k) which are not as sought after as the 1982 version.
  
Love me do....aqsw...and buy me this box set.


----------



## aqsw

No, that's not the one I have. After doing a little research, mine is " The Beatles Collection". 1978.

Blue Box with embossed signatures at the bottom.

13 albums. 14 records. White album is a doube.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> No, that's not the one I have. After doing a little research, mine is " The Beatles Collection". 1978.
> 
> Blue Box with embossed signatures at the bottom.


 

 Yours is older and probably more valuable then. Your a rich man now aqsw !!!
  
 Hallelujah @hypnos1 we have 65,546 views now. What did you do ????


----------



## DecentLevi

All thanks to UT .. THE man. Literally one of the hardest 'workers' on Head-Fi (see the front page which ranks the most active users.) His enthuasim and good spirit (well for those that really know him, not really speakin' for the haters) has kept this thread ALIVE... it's contageous, and is helping spread that audiophile love that is much needed in a market filled with conglomerate con-artists (you know who I'm talkin' about, rhymes with meat) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And sorry for writing this when I'm tipsy


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> All thanks to UT .. THE man. Literally one of the hardest 'workers' on Head-Fi (see the front page which ranks the most active users.) His enthuasim and good spirit (well for those that really know him, not really speakin' for the haters) has kept this thread ALIVE... it's contageous, and is helping spread that audiophile love that is much needed in a market filled with conglomerate con-artists (you know who I'm talkin' about, rhymes with meat)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey @DecentLevi can you change my name to @Oskari please? I don't want to get infamous. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I hope Oskari is tipsy now too so he doesn't see this.
  
 Or change it to @Lorspeaker the man who motivated me.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well any sparkles? Fireworks? Snowflakes? Cornflakes? I want 3 attributes that you think EL3N brings to your mind most. Ok 5 if you must...


 
  
 Patience, my dear UT...for my particular ears, the 'sparkle' did in fact take a while longer to develop. After that FDD20 soundstage and signature, the *BIG *difference JV mentions took me some time to 'adjust' to, and for a while I couldn't fully make up my mind. That *incredible* bass - that tightens nicely with burn-in, and those fuller (in _every_ sense) mids -  can at first appear to dominate somewhat, at the expense of air and spaciousness...not to mention a bit of treble...._*However...*_with more time on them (actually, rather more time than I realised at first), as the bass tightens :  soundstage opens (in width, depth _and _height); space between/around instruments increases; treble comes through, in both extension and delicacy, and the *massive* detail develops more precision in its clarity and placement. All in all, a more balanced, controlled presentation.
  
 After all this - give at least 40 hrs - the sound is still quite different to all our previous top tubes...and, of course, is going to vary depending on one's own set-up! And as I mentioned, this difference has taken me longer to get used to than any other tube of mine, despite my initial 'shock' euphoria...luckily for @CITIZENLIN, his adjustment was _immediate_, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But now that time has worked her magic - not only on the tubes but the _adapters__/__ing_ also, don't forget!) - this new, deliciously 'lush' sound, complete with notes and tones I've never heard before, has won me over *BIG* time. JV's word "*ORGANIC" *is a very apt one indeed...mine - as per my previous midnight revelation - would be "*VINYL SOUND".*
  
 I do realise this may not be everyone's favourite choice, and different HPs of course will affect the final outcome - perhaps much more than usual! But hey, variety is the spice of life LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And I hope _everyone_ will be wholly honest in how they find these tubes...but as usual, I do recommend giving them (and the adapters) plenty of burn-in...and most of all...ENJOY!!!
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Okay,
> 
> One word sums this up:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...great to now have your impressions also...and I can fully understand your initial reaction. These EL3Ns are *so* different, some people will indeed take a good while to get used to them. I now know for sure just what 'lush' and 'full' sound *really* mean - but in the _nicest_ possible sense!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And I look forward to how your own findings continue to develop...*keep 'em comin'!!*   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....(_feel_ the *Vinyl*, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## Lorspeaker

specially for @UntilThen


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Is this what you have? This set on sale is AUD$1100.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sure you guys get tired of hearing about all the great things I HAD IN THE PAST. Actually, I do too!!! But since I don't have my Elise yet it is about the only thing I can talk about on this thread.
  
 And yes, I did have one of the original 1982 issues of this set. Not the re-presss. As I recall, the only time the master tapes ever left the Abby Road studios was when they were shipped to Los Angeles to cut the masters for this pressing. But I'm not totally sure about that.
  
 Sold the set when I got out of vinyl ((( Too bad. I'd be well on my way to a pair of HD800S cans if I still had it


----------



## hypnos1

citizenlin said:


> I am not sure who is more tired my system or myself, My my stereo had 5 hrs off time the last 24 hours. The LP + sound of EL3N made me pull out my turntable Sota Moonbean of my garage for the last 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
  
 Should be _really_ interesting, CL...might just be the incentive for me to _finally_ see if my Heybrook TT2/Linn/Ortofon is still alive, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But to be honest, my digitised music is sounding _*so*_ vinyl-smooth with Elise + EL3N + GEC CV2523 + T1, I can see that day being put off yet again!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Hope you have both had a good rest, but now you must get back in the saddle, put some more hours on those tubes, and let us know how things are progressing!!...holiday's nearly over! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Welcome to 2016!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

*EL3N* impressions continued....*

ORGANIC* and *VINYL-ISH*

Are both good words to describe the sound. As are *LUSH* and *FULL*.

I will definitely *DEFINITELY * say as well that I am hearing things I never heard before on recordings that I 
am very familiar with. A David Sanborn/Bob James LP, "Double Vision" side 1 last song: "Moon Tune" there were a myriad of sonic treats never heard before.

There is also something about the presentation, it's more real, more "exactly reproduced" as though the instruments were in the room and your standing nearby, your own personal show.

Hard to describe, but kind of like the timbre is *SO REAL* that it's no longer an *ILLUSION* of real, but *REAL*.

They continue to make the *SENN's* the best cans I have ever heard 

Could be the *EL3N/5998 combo*, could be that different powers would make these work better with the DT-990's.
I am so enamoured with them paired with 5998's that I probably won't find out today, how they do with different powers 

Also...seems to me that it's like the "*Loudness*" switch is on - that classic SS amps used to have. You have this full wide bottom brought out that is addictive and makes you *NEVER* not want to turn it off... makes everything way more lush/organic/fun.

Also tried a couple of Vinyl records as source...HECK YEAH!!! This also makes the vinyl sound like you have your *"loudness" switch on"*...I LOVE it!!! Digital more vinyl, and vinyl presented with the *Loudness Switch ON*, this was missing, previously....

*Virtual Reality for the Music LOVER!!!* 

Thank you *Feliks/Elise*! Thank You *H1*, Thank You *UT*!!!

This is truly a *JOY*....!!!!

If anyone had a turntable and records they have not heard for years, this IS the ticket to bring it into the *Joyous Light Of Day*!!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> *EL3N* impressions continued....
> 
> *ORGANIC* and *VINYL-ISH*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, JV, I suppose that means you're liking the sound just a tad, lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  CHEERS!...Happy 2016...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> My apologies. When I saw that turntable I thought it came from a garage sale. Sorry I don't know about turntables lol.




Sota tables were made in the USA, and as I recall, they had a lifetime trade-in guarantee, if you ever wanted to go up the food chain, they would take your table back, and apply the full price you paid towards the higher-end model.

There were some Sota tables that had the outboarded power supply (to get all AC out from under the platter). I emulated this when I outboarded the power supply in my Harman Kardon table. "Sota-Like" LOL 

There is a cream you can use to rub out that dust cover @Citizinlin, to get it looking like new again. 

Sure hope you do get your Moonbeam up and running again...you won't regret it!!!

And agree with all your sentiments CL, regarding this setup and how many years we chased the big fat round tone, and now, here it IS. 

Cheers to us....the LUCKY ONES!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Well, JV, I suppose that means you're liking the sound just a tad, lol?!!! :wink_face:   CHEERS!...Happy 2016...




Indeed, H1, sound quality has been ramped up a notch, and there is no going back!!

Happy 2016 to us....the LUCKY ONES...


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Indeed, H1, sound quality has been ramped up a notch, and there is no going back!!
> 
> Happy 2016 to us....the LUCKY ONES...


 
  
 Really glad to see you're getting the changes I hoped for...and also glad to report that I may have been a bit hasty in saying these EL3Ns may not need _too_ long a burn-in : I must be getting close to well over 60 hrs now, and *still* things are 'improving'!...ie. even _more_ clarity/separation/placement/treble 'sparkle'. And I must qualify your 'loudness' setting by saying it comes with *none* of its downsides of old - none *whatsoever!*, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 And I have just had the *biggest* smile of my life all over my face - I thought I'd try turning up the volume to a level I wouldn't normally want with_ prolonged_ listening, and tracks from Alan Parson's Project 'Turn of a Friendly Card' have left me totally and utterly speechless. I am, for once, completely lost for words...am gonna have to ponder this experience in the calm of a nice warm bath. Perhaps I'll find the words that escape me for now...perhaps not!
 So it's BFN, mes amis...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello H1...

Agree about none of the downsides of the classic Loudness Switch.

Just a lush fully bloomed thick garden of bass that surrounds and comforts like old friends.

I listened to Culture Club's "Kissing to be Clever" via LP and whoa....sound quality that would impress the artists themselves.

Now we're on to Alice Cooper, and his "Killer" LP...and again....absolutely superb sound quality. Never sounded better!

Paint me amazed, And it gets BETTER???? Whoa!!!!


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I have a pair of HD650's which I love. UT's reviews have me strongly considering a pair of HE560's. 

Anyone other than UT (whose praise is noted!) have one or both that thinks the upgrade is worth it?

The comfort of the HD650's has always been a down side for me. I think I have a larger head and so the clamp strength can wear on me after a few hours.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow @Lorspeaker thank you for sending me 2 korean songs by 2 lovely looking ladies. I think my wife and daughter will love it, having just visited South Korea last year.
  
 You sure we haven't met before Head-Fi ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
@pctazhp looks like you're HiFi connoisseur. Pity you sold all your stuff. You sure there's nothing left in the attic?


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1...
> 
> Agree about none of the downsides of the classic Loudness Switch.
> 
> ...


 
  
 BETTER???, JV....*YOU BET, lol!!*
  
 Bathtime ponder didn't turn up any more words, I'm afraid - best just say take all I've said so far...and *double it!!*




  
 However, another bright light _did_ pop up (besides the one accompanied by "what's going on in there?!", that is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)... prompted by your comments re. the Senns, I realise my  - and _your_ and @CITIZENLIN's words - probably indicate the complete answer to some peoples' concerns over the HD800s. Just as with the 'evening' out of the Beyer T1's occasional criticisms, I'm totally convinced these EL3Ns can do just the same for the 800s...and what a boon _that _would be, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Ah well, time for dinner...'bye again...


----------



## UntilThen

Omg @hypnos1 @JazzVinyl @CITIZENLIN you guys are torturing me.
  
 I was going to burn in the EL3Ns for 24 hours before I start listening to it. However now I'll be living the experience by listening to it from the very 1st minute. I want to see it evolve and present the different tones as the clock tick by.
  
 Thanks guys. You've make me more than curious now. There's still 2 more days to go before Monday. If I had known, I'd have ask Mrs XuLing to send those adapters by SpeedPost. 
  
 I'm listening to Julie London now thanks to @tjw321. It's so romantic and soothing. My kind of music at 4:30am.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> I have a pair of HD650's which I love. UT's reviews have me strongly considering a pair of HE560's.
> 
> Anyone other than UT (whose praise is noted!) have one or both that thinks the upgrade is worth it?
> 
> The comfort of the HD650's has always been a down side for me. I think I have a larger head and so the clamp strength can wear on me after a few hours.


 

 I know you've noted my praise of the HE560 but here it goes again LOL. I've not heard the HD800 but quite a lot of reviews says the HE560 is in that mould of clarity and details.
  
 What is enticing with the HE560, is that it sounds musical with Elise. HE560 has been in the house for sometime but I don't use it much until Elise shows up. I've tried it on the Darkvoice 336se but didn't like it. The DV (as any normal OTL amp) obviously isn't up to the task of driving a low impedance planar magnetic headphone. If you take a look at the Darkvoice 336se tube rolling thread part 2, my review of the HE560 with the DV336se was very unfavourable.
  
 HE560 details and clarity are intoxicating. Bass is there in just the right quantity and it's serve in quality abundance. A tom tom sounds like a tom tom, not a tomb tomb. Kick drums sounds tight and kicks you in the gut. Clash of cymbals brings magic to your ears. A trumpet sounds like a ....well a trumpet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Piano sounds amazing. Now the best for last. I love HD650 midrange and the way vocals are presented but on the HE560 with Elise, I'm hugging my knees. I can hear Julie London's breath as she sings. I can hear the accompanying instruments in the background soft but very distinct. This headphone has great reviews if you do a search but it's slide off from the radar now with all the new offerings. It is cheap in Amazon but still expensive in Australia where it retails for $1200 plus.
  
 Grab it !!!
  
 ps.. with HE560 and HD650, you have the best of both worlds. Your musical cake is complete. See even the numbers are almost the same ...560 and 650


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> ...
> I'm listening to Julie London now thanks to @tjw321. It's so romantic and soothing. My kind of music at 4:30am.


 
 Me too! But you knew that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Julie, Ella and Sam (Cooke) probably get the most playtime on my Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> Me too! But you knew that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sam Cooke ...YES YES YES. I love Sam. Magical voice and the singer of some of the most memorable songs. 
  
 The Great Pretender, Summertime, You Send Me, Wonderful World, Bring it On Home To Me....too many to list. Some singers leaves a lasting impression on you and Sam is certainly one of them.
  
_Don't know much about history
 Don't know much biology
 Don't know much about a science book,
 Don't know much about the french I took
 But I do know that I love you,
 And I know that if you love me, too,
 What a wonderful world this would be_


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Sam Cooke ...YES YES YES. I love Sam. Magical voice and the singer of some of the most memorable songs.
> 
> The Great Pretender, Summertime, You Send Me, Wonderful World, Bring it On Home To Me....too many to list. Some singers leaves a lasting impression on you and Sam is certainly one of them.
> 
> ...


 
 "A Change is Gonna Come" and "Nobody Knows the TroUble I've Seen" are a couple of my favourites.
  
 All this talk of HE-560 and T1s got me looking at some comparative reviews. I think I'm going to have to find somewhere to preview the two together once the fund reaches the requisite level.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> "A Change is Gonna Come" and "Nobody Knows the TroUble I've Seen" are a couple of my favourites.
> 
> All this talk of HE-560 and T1s got me looking at some comparative reviews. I think I'm going to have to find somewhere to preview the two together once the fund reaches the requisite level.


 

 You're in trouble TJ. If you hear both of them on Elise, you're gonna want to buy both of them !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  
 Oooh yeah, 'A Change is Gonna Come' ... I'm floating now... I'm changing ...


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> You're in trouble TJ. If you hear both of them on Elise, you're gonna want to buy both of them !!!


 
 I think you may very well be right


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> ...
> 
> Listening to the *BEST RECORDED* (sound quality wise) CD that I own:
> 
> ...


 
 thnx for this; i will get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> thnx for this; i will get it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm listening to Mark Egan's 'As We Speak' on Tidal now at 16/44.1khz...very no-ice ! You need a revealing headphone for this...and you need HE560. 
  
 Dr. Fang, do I get a commission for this promotion? Or at least can you send me a HE1000 to listen for a month?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm listening to Mark Egan's 'As We Speak' on Tidal now at 16/44.1khz...very no-ice ! You need a revealing headphone for this...and you need HE560.
> 
> Dr. Fang, do I get a commission for this promotion? Or at least can you send me a HE1000 to listen for a month?




UT...have you ever heard the HE500's? 

I hear many say that the 560's were an improvement from a comfort standpoint, but that they don't sound "better" then the '500 model....?

Whatchathink?


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP: Natalie Cole - 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/01/entertainment/natalie-cole-death/


:mad:


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> UT...have you ever heard the HE500's?
> 
> I hear many say that the 560's were an improvement from a comfort standpoint, but that they don't sound "better" then the '500 model....?
> 
> Whatchathink?


 

 I have not heard the HE500 but I have an idea of how it sounds from the many reviews.
  
 Now, "better" depends on who hears it !!! If you're a basshead, you'll love the HE500. If you're a details freak (which I'm starting to be), you'll love the HE560 for sure. 
  
 HE560 is the girl you want to marry and live happily ever after. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .... until Miss Gorgeous HE1000 comes long...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have not heard the HE500 but I have an idea of how it sounds from the many reviews.
> 
> Now, "better" depends on who hears it !!! If you're a basshead, you'll love the HE500. If you're a details freak (which I'm starting to be), you'll love the HE560 for sure.
> 
> HE560 is the girl you want to marry and live happily ever after.




Hehe!! And the 500 is the girl you want to take to the Prom?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

jazzvinyl said:


> Sota tables were made in the USA, and as I recall, they had a lifetime trade-in guarantee, if you ever wanted to go up the food chain, they would take your table back, and apply the full price you paid towards the higher-end model.
> 
> There were some Sota tables that had the outboarded power supply (to get all AC out from under the platter). I emulated this when I outboarded the power supply in my Harman Kardon table. "Sota-Like" LOL
> 
> ...


 

 30hrs in
 Schiit Bigfrost + Elise+ELN3+5998+Krell KSA 100s, B&W 802s,
  
 The best analog sound (LP sound) with 2016 4k quality sound stage
 When I turn up the volume, the sound stage get bigger without degrading the quality of *ROUND BIG FAT TONE*(thanks JV , its stuck in my head).
 The first time in my life that my WONDERING EARS are not looking for something better or new. (let's see how long will this sentiment last) HAHA
  
 Yes, I am listening to Jim Morrison's *The End*
*This might as well be THE END*


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> 30hrs in
> Schiit Bigfrost + Elise+ELN3+5998+Krell KSA 100s, B&W 802s,
> 
> The best analog sound (LP sound) with 2016 4k quality sound stage
> ...


 

 Waiter, I'll have what this man is having....double servings please.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Waiter, I'll have what this man is having....double servings please.


 
 UT,
 I am not kidding, This kind of TONE/SOUND STAGE/CLEAR DETAIL you can only get when you are   under influence of plant medicine at the live concert (15 roll back)


----------



## pctazhp

House MD and SOTA Cosmos: https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0SO8wF.zoZW2K8AfcNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWphODcwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQTAxOTZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Doctor+House+Sota+Turntables&fr=mcafee#id=1&vid=5f53ff449c61dadee5d482ac295ca937&action=view


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> UT,
> I am not kidding, This kind of TONE/SOUND STAGE/CLEAR DETAIL you can only get when you are   under influence of plant medicine at the live concert (15 roll back)


 

 Stop torturing me. It's 6am on the 2nd of Jan and the adapters are no where in sight and I have six EL3Ns sitting here looking very pretty but they're NOT singing !!!


----------



## pctazhp

citizenlin said:


> 30hrs in
> Schiit Bigfrost + Elise+ELN3+5998+Krell KSA 100s, B&W 802s,
> 
> The best analog sound (LP sound) with 2016 4k quality sound stage
> ...


 
  
 Krell KSA 100s and B&W 802s. What an amazing combination !!!.
  
 BTW, do you remember that Dan D'Agostino took the Krell name came from the 1956 movie Forbidden Planet?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> House MD and SOTA Cosmos: https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0SO8wF.zoZW2K8AfcNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWphODcwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQTAxOTZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Doctor+House+Sota+Turntables&fr=mcafee#id=1&vid=5f53ff449c61dadee5d482ac295ca937&action=view


 

 Watching the Sota Star Sapphire vacuum turntable...very nice !


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Stop torturing me. It's 6am on the 2nd of Jan and the adapters are no where in sight and I have six EL3Ns sitting here looking very pretty but they're NOT singing !!!


 
  
 How I feel your pain, UT....and how can we be _*so*_ *cruel*, lol??!!....(Don't blame us, poor fellow...blame these darned unbelievable wonders you drooled over way back when!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 That'll teach you to keep your row boat in working order!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Soon, soon, mon ami...


----------



## CITIZENLIN

@UntilThen,@hypnos1,@Jazzvinyl
  
 Usually with the size of soundstage, crystal clear detail at higher spectrum  the sound became analytical. NOT THE CASE HERE
 ELN3's mid/low bass fill the room/head with grace.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> How I feel your pain, UT....and how can we be _*so*_ *cruel*, lol??!!....(Don't blame us, poor fellow...blame these darned unbelievable wonders you drooled over way back when!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1, I can assure you I'm getting great sound with FDD20s here...so the next instalment of Star Wars EL3N can wait.


----------



## hypnos1

citizenlin said:


> @UntilThen,@hypnos1,@Jazzvinyl
> 
> Usually with the size of soundstage, crystal clear detail at higher spectrum  the sound became analytical. NOT THE CASE HERE
> ELN3's mid/low bass fill the room/head with grace.


 
  
 CL...you are _*too*_ cruel, by far...but we love you!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And what you say just confirms my suspicions about the magical 'fairy dust' I'm sure these tubes would positively _*shower*_ upon the Senn HD800s...


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Stop torturing me. It's 6am on the 2nd of Jan and the adapters are no where in sight and I have six EL3Ns sitting here looking very pretty but they're NOT singing !!!


 
 Sorry UT, I know I should stop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am amazed by what  ELISE can do with right combo of tubes.
  
 P.S      HD650 is such a fun sounding HP with first class comfort to go with. so... do not sell HD650 until you hear it on EL3N set up.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, I can assure you I'm getting great sound with FDD20s here...so the next instalment of Star Wars EL3N can wait.


 
  
 Yes indeed, UT...the FDD20 is still one phenomenal tube, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so I shall not have to feel _quite_ so sorry for you after all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....ENJOY!!!


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Sorry UT, I know I should stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can you pop in Chatham 6AS7G in place of 5998 and tell me what you think? For the sake of the audience who have the Chatham but not the 5998?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hypnos1 said:


> CL...you are _*too*_ cruel, by far...but we love you!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

@hypnos1
 Yeah.... I couldn't contain myself
  
  
 getting better and better by the hour, no trace of the sound coming out of  speakers,  PURE MAGICAL SOUNDING SOUNDSTAGE.(no need to close my eyes to imagine)


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Can you pop in Chatham 6AS7G in place of 5998 and tell me what you think? For the sake of the audience who have the Chatham but not the 5998?


 
 sorry UT. I don't have Chatham 6AS7G. I have stock power tubes , 5998 and TS 7236.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> sorry UT. I don't have Chatham 6AS7G. I have stock power tubes , 5998 and TS 7236.


 

 Perhaps EL3N with Svetlana 6H13C might bring more fireworks hahaha.
  
 JV, pop in the Mullard 6080 or Chatham 6AS7G and tell me what you think.


----------



## Suuup

Something weird is happening. After turning Elise up to about 1 a clock, there seems to be some sort of distortion. The distortion gets louder as I move my hands nearer the driver tubes. Then it will suddenly stop for a few seconds, only to return again. Not sure why. The distortion seems to come after about 10.30 and gets louder and louder, until I reach max volume on Elise. Then it disappears. At full volume, there is no distortion.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Something weird is happening. After turning Elise up to about 1 a clock, there seems to be some sort of distortion. The distortion gets louder as I move my hands nearer the driver tubes. Then it will suddenly stop for a few seconds, only to return again. Not sure why. The distortion seems to come after about 10.30 and gets louder and louder, until I reach max volume on Elise. Then it disappears. At full volume, there is no distortion.


 

 Huh? With no music playing obviously? Or else at max volume, I doubt you can hear me now.
  
 I've tried this exercise many times even with fancy pants drivers like the 12V FDD20. With no music playing, at any volume, all I hear is pitch black silence. I can hear my own breathing...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Huh? With no music playing obviously? Or else at max volume, I doubt you can hear me now.
> 
> I've tried this exercise many times even with fancy pants drivers like the 12V FDD20. With no music playing, at any volume, all I hear is pitch black silence. I can hear my own breathing...


 
 With no music playing, the noise is very noticeable. It's like a high-pitched whine. If you know what coil-whining is, it's sort of like that. 
  
 It's possible that this is due to EMI. I just don't understand why that would subside at max volume.
  
  
 I'm running Elise at max volume right now, but turned down the sound on my computer to ~10% volume.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok just tried it again.
  
 With 2 FDD20 and the adapters..  With no music playing, I turn up the volume. Silence until I get to 3pm..that's when i start to hear the tubes buzzing like a train running on tracks, gets louder to max volume. This is with 12V FDD20 and 5998.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Ok just tried it again.
> 
> With 2 FDD20 and the adapters..  With no music playing, I turn up the volume. Silence until I get to 3pm..that's when i start to hear the tubes buzzing like a train running on tracks, gets louder to max volume. This is with 12V FDD20 and 5998.


 
 So there is not complete silence? Hmm. Not sure about what to think. There are a lot of extra factors to think about with the FDD20 since they're externally heated.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> With no music playing, the noise is very noticeable. It's like a high-pitched whine. If you know what coil-whining is, it's sort of like that.
> 
> It's possible that this is due to EMI. I just don't understand why that would subside at max volume.
> 
> ...


 

 Yup you have some kind of feedback ...
  
 I just did what you did.... source to 1% volume and Elise to max volume. I have music  No distortion what so ever.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> So there is not complete silence? Hmm. Not sure about what to think. There are a lot of extra factors to think about with the FDD20 since they're externally heated.


 

 Oh yeah but distortion comes in *only at 3pm with no music playing*. Prior to that complete silence. 
  
 Yup we're using fancy 12V heating


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> Something weird is happening. After turning Elise up to about 1 a clock, there seems to be some sort of distortion. The distortion gets louder as I move my hands nearer the driver tubes. Then it will suddenly stop for a few seconds, only to return again. Not sure why. The distortion seems to come after about 10.30 and gets louder and louder, until I reach max volume on Elise. Then it disappears. At full volume, there is no distortion.


 
@Suuup
  
 I tried it with fdd20s and EL3N
 a hint of noise at 2 , 3 o'clock on fdd20s (assuming ... because of external power
 pitch black at max volume on EL3N. (yet EL3N are very microphonics


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh yeah but distortion comes in *only at 3pm with no music playing*. Prior to that complete silence.
> 
> Yup we're using fancy 12V heating


 
 Hmm. How about your Fivres?
  


citizenlin said:


> @Suuup
> 
> I tried it with fdd20s and EL3N
> a hint of noise at 2 , 3 o'clock on fdd20s (assuming ... because of external power
> pitch black at max volume on EL3N. (yet EL3N are very microphonics


 
 Does the noise subside at max volume?


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> So there is not complete silence? Hmm. Not sure about what to think. There are a lot of extra factors to think about with the FDD20 since they're externally heated.


 
  
 yep ... & that's why owning, or having access to, a 'scope is one of my big future priorities ... i want to be able to troubleshoot ... things, when they go wrong. but my first new (old) tool has got to be vtvm.


untilthen said:


> Yup you have some kind of feedback ...
> 
> I just did what you did.... source to 1% volume and Elise to max volume. I have music  No distortion what so ever.


 
 you're using s/w player to adjust vol on your windows? desktop ... ?  why wouldn't you run bitperfect into your dac?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> Hmm. How about your Fivres?
> 
> Does the noise subside at max volume?


 
 No. Do not get louder at max volume.
  
 What is your source ? PC, CDplayer...ect?


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys...just curious. Heater power aside, is it now just an old wives' tale that computers are sometimes prone to do rather nasty things to (external) sound output?...


----------



## Suuup

It seems my ground wire from my radiator is adding extra noise. The only reason I added the ground wire was because the 1770's hummed. There is no hum on my T1. Just tried removing the ground wire, and the noise decreased very noticeably. 
  
@hypnos1 I don't follow. Could you explain further?


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> No. Do not get louder at max volume.
> 
> What is your source ? PC, CDplayer...ect?


 
 I'm running it out of my Asus Xonar U7 DAC. Not the best in the world. 
  
 Oh, I mean does the noise disappear at max volume? Mine does.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

geetarman49 said:


> yep ... & that's why owning, or having access to, a 'scope is one of my big future priorities ... i want to be able to troubleshoot ... things, when they go wrong. but my first new (old) tool has got to be vtvm.
> you're using s/w player to adjust vol on your windows? desktop ... ?  why wouldn't you run bitperfect into your dac?


 
@UntilThen
  
 I was thinking the same thing. If your source is via PC. If you are not using Asio/bitperfect then make sure mic is not plugged in or check the microphone setting on pc sound setting and uncheck the listen box.


----------



## geetarman49

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys...just curious. Heater power aside, is it now just an old wives' tale that computers are sometimes prone to do rather nasty things to (external) sound output?...


 

 depends ... usb is contaminated by computer noise ... so u need usb isolation.
 if you don't run bitperfect then the windows directsound api runs its own form of digital enhancement & filtering to the signal before it goes out to usb - enhancement for some, butchering for others.


----------



## Suuup

citizenlin said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. If your source is via PC. If you are not using Asio/bitperfect then make sure mic is not plugged in or check the microphone setting on pc sound setting and uncheck the listen box.


 
 Asio / bitperfect? 
  
 I've only dabbled with Asio when I had to connect my piano to my pc. Decreased latency. Didn't know it was also used for high-end audio. Will this give me a better sound?


geetarman49 said:


> depends ... usb is contaminated by computer noise ... so u need usb isolation.
> if you don't run bitperfect then the windows directsound api runs its own form of digital enhancement & filtering to the signal before it goes out to usb.


 
 How do I run bitperfect?


----------



## UntilThen

LOL slow down guys. Let me explain.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

geetarman49 said:


> depends ... usb is contaminated by computer noise ... so u need usb isolation.
> if you don't run bitperfect then the windows directsound api runs its own form of digital enhancement & filtering to the signal before it goes out to usb.


 
 bitperfect  is A MUST for me atleast.


----------



## geetarman49

citizenlin said:


> bitperfect  is A MUST for me atleast.


 

 it should be a must for everyone using external dac; otherwise, why bother?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

suuup said:


> Asio / bitperfect?
> 
> I've only dabbled with Asio when I had to connect my piano to my pc. Decreased latency. Didn't know it was also used for high-end audio. Will this give me a better sound?
> How do I run bitperfect?


 

 You can use ASIO4ALL
 http://www.asio4all.com/


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> Asio / bitperfect?
> 
> I've only dabbled with Asio when I had to connect my piano to my pc. Decreased latency. Didn't know it was also used for high-end audio. Will this give me a better sound?
> How do I run bitperfect?


 

 what s/w player are you using?  i think if you google (s/w player) + (dac) + bitperfect configuration, you'll find all the necessary info.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Suuup, with Fivre 6N7G brown base and shiny gold adapters, no music playing and volume all the way to max, no noise at all on any given volume.
  
 I use Audirvana Plus on top of my iTunes Apples lossless files. However when listening through Tidal, I simply adjust the volume via Tidal's app volume control.
  
@hypnos1  PC or iMac does not have external noise or interference playing music. My iMac is dead silent. It is solely dedicated for music listening. My new PC is also dead silent but I use it for other purpose as I prefer the iMac interface for music listening.
  
 My setup
  
 iMac > NAD D1050 > Elise > HE560


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> what s/w player are you using?  i think if you google (s/w player) + (dac) + bitperfect configuration, you'll find all the necessary info.


 
 Tidal and VLC. Will look into this!


----------



## CITIZENLIN

geetarman49 said:


> it should be a must for everyone using external dac; otherwise, why bother?


 
 sonically better and avoid interference from PC. Then you only have to worry about UBS (lucky me... I don't have usb problem via Schiit bigfrost


----------



## UntilThen

@geetarman49  I don't use bitperfect as I use Aurdivana Plus with my iTunes lossless file, which is way better IMHO.
  
 As stated I have no noise issue unless with the 12V FDD20, with no music playing and volume up to 3pm...then I start to hear noise which I'm pretty sure is introduced by the 12V power supply.
  
 With 6N7G and adapters, I get no noise with no music playing and volume all the way to max.


----------



## geetarman49

citizenlin said:


> You can use ASIO4ALL
> http://www.asio4all.com/


 
 yes, that works ... but not necessarily the best choice for all dacs.  need to check with dac manufacturer (or dac manual)


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @Suuup, and UT...I think @geetarman49 has much better idea than I. Plus, I believe the dreaded 'ground loop' factor  can come into play when connecting audio equipment (somehow!). And various processor activity interferences?...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> @geetarman49  I don't use bitperfect as I use Aurdivana Plus with my iTunes lossless file, which is way better IMHO.
> 
> As stated I have no noise issue unless with the 12V FDD20, with no music playing and volume up to 3pm...then I start to hear noise which I'm pretty sure is introduced by the 12V power supply.
> 
> With 6N7G and adapters, I get no noise with no music playing and volume all the way to max.


 
 Is there noise at, say 1 or 2 o clock?
  
  
 Okay, I should be running this 'bit perfect' now. Is there a difference? I think so, but I'm not sure. It could just be my imagination. Changed from VLC to Foobar now. Not sure why I didn't use Foobar before, I had it installed already. It's much more convenient.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Is there noise at, say 1 or 2 o clock?


 

 None , zip, nada


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @Suuup, and UT...I think @geetarman49 has much better idea than I. Plus, I believe the dreaded 'ground loop' factor  can come into play when connecting audio equipment (somehow!). And various processor activity interferences?...


 

 Haha but I don't have any noise apart from 12V interference at 3pm with no music playing. I don't have an issue.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Haha but I don't have any noise apart from 12V interference at 3pm with no music playing. I don't have an issue.


 
 UT
 We are the luckyone


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Perhaps EL3N with Svetlana 6H13C might bring more fireworks hahaha.
> 
> JV, pop in the Mullard 6080 or Chatham 6AS7G and tell me what you think.




I have some painting to do but will try this in a couple of hours with the Mullard 6080's.

*BIG FAT ROUND TONE* is what I hear currently! I think it bring out harmonics that other tubes bury...


----------



## geetarman49

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @Suuup, and UT...I think @geetarman49 has much better idea than I. Plus, I believe the dreaded 'ground loop' factor  can come into play when connecting audio equipment (somehow!). And various processor activity interferences?...


 

 thnx, but it's not my idea (really) ... we all owe a debt to richard feynman.
 in the heat of the moment, it's all too easy to fool someone (namely, ourselves ... hah!)
 that's why i advocate getting good tools like 'scope, vtvm, tubetester ...


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> UT
> We are the luckyone


 

 I really wish every Elise owner will have their setup this way. It's the only way. It's the humphrey way. I think there are a few without issues.


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> thnx, but it's not my idea (really) ... we all owe a debt to richard feynman.
> in the heat of the moment, it's all too easy to fool someone (namely, ourselves ... hah!)
> that's why i advocate getting good tools like 'scope, vtvm, tubetester ...


 
 Mind shedding some light on what this scope is? I'm very interested.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I have some painting to do but will try this in a couple of hours with the Mullard 6080's.
> 
> *BIG FAT ROUND TONE* is what I hear currently! *I think it bring out harmonics that other tubes bury*...


 
  
 Painting, JV?...this is _*much *_more important, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but if your better half is anything like mine, _*keep her sweet!!!*_








).
  
 And I think you're _*spot on*_ there, re those harmonics...never knew they existed to that degree - *ever!*








 
  
 ps. Sometimes I think my head is going to explode with the sheer amount of gorgeous sound that is filling every single one of the billions of cells, lol!...


----------



## UntilThen

PC and iMac as a source is very established now. If you've a computer with a quiet power supply and quiet graphics card, you shouldn't hear any noise. Use it through a DAC via USB, then to Elise. That's all. As good as a Nakamichi source deck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 My PC uses purely SSD drives which is totally silent.


----------



## Suuup

Okay. I'm not sure wether or not it's the bitperfect Asio stuff I've got going on now or what it is, but the noise is completely gone for now. Could this be due to a high load on my electrical grid? 9 PM 1st of January. Pretty sure most everyone is at home, watching a movie or otherwise relaxing -- using some form of electrical device. Load should be high right now, right? This could be the cause. Combine this with the fact that this building is somewhat old / poorly made.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> @geetarman49  I don't use bitperfect as I use Aurdivana Plus with my iTunes lossless file, *which is way better IMHO*.
> 
> As stated I have no noise issue unless with the 12V FDD20, with no music playing and volume up to 3pm...then I start to hear noise which I'm pretty sure is introduced by the 12V power supply.
> 
> With 6N7G and adapters, I get no noise with no music playing and volume all the way to max.


 
 better as in more accurate or precise?  no ... not possible.
 if you are not running bitperfect, then by implication, it's possible that the original data is processed prior to translation by the dac.  (even if one is running bitperfect, certain playback parameters can break bitperfect ... e.g. fading end of track to beginning of next)
  
 better as in more musically pleasing?  yes, entirely possible.  but then you don't derive the full benefit of what your dac brings to the table. certainly not if you wish to pursue dsd playback.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> PC and iMac as a source is very established now. If you've a computer with a quiet power supply and quiet graphics card, you shouldn't hear any noise. Use it through a DAC via USB, then to Elise. That's all. As good as a Nakamichi source deck
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Gotcha, UT...but I'm gonna stick to my Audiolab 8200CD player, and my Oppo BDP103...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> better as in more accurate or precise?  no ... not possible.
> if you are not running bitperfect, then by implication, it's possible that the original data is processed prior to translation by the dac.  (even if one is running bitperfect, certain playback parameters can break bitperfect ... e.g. fading end of track to beginning of next)
> 
> better as in more musically pleasing?  yes, entirely possible.  but then you don't derive the full benefit of what your dac brings to the table. certainly not if you wish to pursue dsd playback.


 
*BitPerfect is a simple, easy to use, audiophile grade music player that works in conjunction with iTunes to deliver the highest possible sound quality.*
  
*So is Audirvana Plus an audiophile grade music player.*
  
 Are we talking about a different bitperfect?
  
 When you use Audirvana Plus, it takes over all audio processing from you computer.
  
 If you're listening through Tidal, then Tidal software engine does all the processing for you and if you have it at Tidal HiFi, you get 16/44.1 kHz fidelity.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hypnos1 said:


> Gotcha, UT...but I'm gonna stick to my Audiolab 8200CD player, and my Oppo BDP103...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@hypnos1
  
 Totally agree with you but   40000 plus flac music , dramatic improve of USB DAC, convenient use, my laziness made me use PC as source.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> Totally agree with you but   40000 plus flac music , dramatic improve of USB DAC, convenient use, my laziness made me use PC as source.


 

 Yes agree with this


----------



## Lord Raven

I used JRiver with LH Labs WASAPI driver to communicate with the Geek Pulse SFi and then connect it to Elise via RCA which is not line level output. I have disabled the volume control from PC in JRiver and use the volume knob on the DAC to control the volume. In my case I keep it to the maximum as per Larry Ho, creator of Geek DAC. Elise volume control is set between 8-11 AM as per my liking.
  
 I achieved hum free results on the FDD20 pair, with white adapters from Mrs-X. If I turn the music off and raise the volume, I am noise free and hum free at all volume levels. If I lower the volume from DAC to minimum, and raise the volume on Elise to maximum, there is no noise, distortion or hum at all.
  
 This is how things should ideally be. I think most people having problems with noise on Elise have incorrectly configured DAC's, impedance mismatching between equipment or ground loops with their system. Otherwise, Elise is dead silent on stock tubes, and FDD20s in my experience.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> *BitPerfect is a simple, easy to use, audiophile grade music player that works in conjunction with iTunes to deliver the highest possible sound quality.*
> 
> *So is Audirvana Plus an audiophile grade music player.*
> 
> ...


 

 my bad ... i should be writing 'bit perfect' or 'bit-perfect' vice 'bitperfect'.
 here's the shorty --> http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/BitPerfect.htm
  
 here's more indepth --> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/520-fun-digital-audio-%96-bit-perfect-audibility-testing/
  
 <edit>  but is _bp_ really necessary?  well, if you've spent big$ on an external dac, then why wouldn't you let the dac do all the processing that it can deliver on an unadulterated source signal?  is bp going to lead to a better musical experience?  i admit this is debatable. it's all too much  imo, wme, twit, etc.


----------



## UntilThen

OK after a marathon chat from Korean music, EL3N, turntable, hum, headphones to bit perfect....I am exhausted...I have to blame @Lorspeaker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now after a shower, with my special brew coffee and special toast, I'm ready for the day !!!
  
@geetarman49  ok that is new to me. As far as I know, my bits and bytes do not get truncated from iMac to DAC where it's processed. That's how I know it to be. I did a lot of research on a software music player to replace iTunes which is bad, as in bad, bad. So for a spell I trialled Amara, Pure Music, Audrivana Pus, Bitperfect and ended up with Audirvana Plus on a $79 license. It's night and day compared with just iTunes. Even Fido can tell the difference.
  
 Then I got on Tidal music streaming via their high fidelity service at 16/44.1 kHz. I was amazed at the quality. At 16/44.1, it sounded better than my Apple lossless files through Audirvana. I don't know what green stuff they put in it but Tidal HiFi is a very enjoyable experience plus pure convenience.
  
 So in the interest of 'bit perfect' I'll research what this bit-perfect will do, although I can tell you right now I do not feel my music of ones and zeros are truncated because I counted every one of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps - I'm work with computers...business software development...interacting IBM mainframes with PCs, so I know my way around PCs and iMac. Yup my whole life...so tedious...wish I work with tube amps instead. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Dang where's @Lorspeaker . I'm listening to his korean music again.


----------



## B-60

Hi UT,
 Did you ever try Bug head software, or is it only for PC ,are you on mac?


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi UT,
> Did you ever try Bug head software, or is it only for PC ,are you on mac?


 

 What for??? There are no bugs in my computer !!!   Is that a new insecticide ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I use my iMac solely for music and my Windows PC for looking out the window.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> What for??? There are no bugs in my computer !!!   Is that a new insecticide ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 There my be a bug in your head, just like in my head....lol
 I contacted Lukasz today about the Elise....waiting for email back and shipping cost.


----------



## Suuup

Been listening to Australian-born Ruth Moody today. Do you know her @UntilThen? Such a lovely voice! If you like female vocals, please give her a listen! So delicate and pure.
  

  
 If you have Tidal, find her there. She deserves to be heard in good quality.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> There my be a bug in your head, just like in my head....lol
> I contacted Lukasz today about the Elise....waiting for email back and shipping pricing.


 

 Are you serious ??? Emailing him on New Year's day ??? I think Lukasz needs a long long holiday. When we tell him we're using EL3Ns, he'll need a longer holiday.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Dang where's @Lorspeaker . I'm listening to his korean music again.


 
  
 I'll fill in.
  

  
 Talking about secrets…
  


untilthen said:


> I hope Oskari is tipsy now too so he doesn't see this.


 
  
 … Perhaps you shouldn't tag me if you wish to keep yours.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Been listening to Australian-born Ruth Moody today. Do you know her @UntilThen? Such a lovely voice! If you like female vocals, please give her a listen! So delicate and pure.


 
 No I've not heard about her until now. I like the bass notes and various instruments sound coming distinctly from left and right. She has a lovely voice.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Are you serious ??? Emailing him on New Year's day ??? I think Lukasz needs a long long holiday. When we tell him we're using EL3Ns, he'll need a longer holiday.


 
 He can take his sweet time, I have all the time in the world to wait for it ,I will be talking to him about Cardas RCA Connectors and perhaps some cardas clear hookup cables for internal wiring for the Elise ,see if he is willing to agree with that.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I'll fill in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Haha you're too funny Oskari. Let's dedicate this to @Lorspeaker he'll love it.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> He can take his sweet time, I have all the time in the world to wait for it ,I will be talking to him about Cardas RCA Connectors and perhaps some cardas clear hookup cables for internal wiring for the Elise ,see if he is willing to agree with that.


 

 You should ask him for titanium sockets instead so you can tube roll a million times. What's so special about the Cardas RCA connectors? and Cardas clear hookup cables?
  
 There's nothing wrong with the Da Vinci RCA connectors and clear hookup cables now. I assure you they are like Ferrari.
  
 If there's any criticism, it's the front. I would have preferred a better flushed front plate and volume knob. And stainless steel feet.
 I think here, the Woo products of brushed aluminium looks classier. But you're looking at a $1190 Woo Wa2 vs a $649 Elise
  
 and I much prefer the tubes we can use in Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You should ask him for titanium sockets instead so you can tube roll a million times. What's so special about the Cardas RCA connectors? and Cardas clear hookup cables?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the Da Vinci RCA connectors and clear hookup cables now. I assure you they are like Ferrari.


 
 If I were to change anything about Elise, it would be the sockets. I can feel them getting looser everytime I roll new tubes. 
  
 I think I'd make a power button on the front. It's a mild inconvenience to reach for the back everytime I have to power Elise on/off. Also, I would like the volume indicating dot a tad bit bigger. Oh, and one last thing. Make the LED a red/orange-ish color, to match the tubes, instead of the blue. The blue looks good, but it doesn't match with the glow of the tubes. 
  
 Those are small issues though.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> You should ask him for titanium sockets instead so you can tube roll a million times. What's so special about the Cardas RCA connectors? and Cardas clear hookup cables?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the Da Vinci RCA connectors and clear hookup cables now. I assure you they are like Ferrari.
> 
> If there's any criticism, it's the front. I would have preferred a better flushed front plate and volume knob.


 
 Most of my vintage gear was redone with Cardas RCA's they are made from solid brass and plated with silver and finished with rhodium on top.
 Clear cables are very transparent and musical so between the two will make a difference.
 I do not mind the looks of the unit ,one thing if I would want to add is some nice wood panels to the side.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> If I were to change anything about Elise, it would be the sockets. I can feel them getting looser everytime I roll new tubes.
> 
> I think I'd make a power button on the front. It's a mild inconvenience to reach for the back everytime I have to power Elise on/off. Also, I would like the volume indicating dot a tad bit bigger. Oh, and one last thing. Make the LED a red/orange-ish color, to match the tubes, instead of the blue. The blue looks good, but it doesn't match with the glow of the tubes.
> 
> Those are small issues though.


 
 Power on/off button in front is only good for diehard tube rollers like us. White dot on the volume knob definitely needs to be more visible. Switchable led lights LOL ?
  


b-60 said:


> Most of my vintage gear was redone with Cardas RCA's they are made from solid brass and plated with silver and finished with rhodium on top.
> Clear cables are very transparent and musical so between the two will make a difference.


 
 Ok I believe you   Try it with Lukasz and let us know what he says.
  
  
 Try this.  Instead of making the white dot more visible, put a sticker on it.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> You should ask him for titanium sockets instead so you can tube roll a million times. What's so special about the Cardas RCA connectors? and Cardas clear hookup cables?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the Da Vinci RCA connectors and clear hookup cables now. I assure you they are like Ferrari.
> 
> ...


 

@B-60   here i agree with UT.  cardas cinch sockets are made of ... brass; most of their models are rhodium plated ... which is great for durability & longevity.
 but sonically, if you want better than stock, i would go with pure copper sockets such as vampire cm1f or cm2f & eichmann bullets on the interconnects. btw, this is all imo, twit, fme


----------



## UntilThen

Hey guys I have a new tube amp.


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> @B-60   here i agree with UT.  cardas cinch sockets are made of ... brass; most of their models are rhodium plated ... which is great for durability & longevity.
> but sonically, if you want better than stock, i would go with pure copper sockets such as vampire cm1f or cm2f & eichmann bullets on the interconnects. btw, this is all imo, twit, fme


 
 Thank you for that recommendation.
 Is that the one here?
 http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=384
 Cheers


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> @B-60   here i agree with UT.  cardas cinch sockets are made of ... brass; most of their models are rhodium plated ... which is great for durability & longevity.
> but sonically, if you want better than stock, i would go with pure copper sockets such as vampire cm1f or cm2f & eichmann bullets on the interconnects. btw, this is all imo, twit, fme


 
 titanium sockets???
 I know about ceramic ones but titanium?


----------



## B-60

I know you are thinking about this???
  
 http://www.thetubestore.com/Parts-Accessories/Teflon-Gold-Tube-Sockets
  
 Yes???


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> Thank you for that recommendation.
> Is that the one here?
> http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=384
> Cheers


 
 that's one place to get them, but there are a few other dealers around --- & as far as cryo ... pffftt;  i got lots o' stuff cryo'd including toobs --- ain't no miracle worker; more like miracle 'dressing' if you catch my drift.
  


b-60 said:


> I know you are thinking about this???
> 
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Parts-Accessories/Teflon-Gold-Tube-Sockets
> 
> Yes???


 
 absolutely ... again, there are possibly other sources ... let me check ...
  
 <edit> these teflon look to be similar (but tubestore is known entity): http://press.diyhifisupply.com/vacuum-tube-sockets-list/
  
 & also at tubestore there is: http://www.thetubestore.com/Capacitors/Ampohm-Audio-Capacitors
 & another of my fav capacitors for use as coupling caps in toob amps:  http://www.parts-express.com/audyn-true-copper-cap-010uf-630v-copper-foil-capacitor--027-150
  
 but don't all u guys start asking Lukasz to do custom builds with these caps (that's for me)


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have enough "white auto pinstripe" for the next 75,000 Elise units...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Going to let the 5998's cool down, and try the Mullard 6080 with these EL3N's now...


----------



## UntilThen

You don't need fancy pinstripe. Just use a white ink correction pen. Behold a BIG WHITE DOT.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> You don't need fancy pinstripe. Just use a white ink correction pen. Behold a BIG WHITE DOT.




Yep, single white dot looks good too...

Have Mullard 6080's in now w/EL3N


----------



## JazzVinyl

One thing not to like about EL3N...

Absolutely dark...no light seen at all. Have to stand directly above them and look down to see ANY glow at at all. 

No glow at all is seen from a sitting/normal listening position. 

:mad:


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> One thing not to like about EL3N...
> 
> Absolutely dark...no light seen at all. Have to stand directly above them and look down to see ANY glow at a lol.
> 
> No glow at all is seen from a sitting/normal listening position.


 
 If you need to know if the tubes are on, just touch it with your finger.


----------



## JazzVinyl

They do not get very warm, either...FDD20 @ 12 volts get far hotter.


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> One thing not to like about EL3N...
> 
> Absolutely dark...no light seen at all. Have to stand directly above them and look down to see ANY glow at at all.
> 
> No glow at all is seen from a sitting/normal listening position.


 

 on  the contrary, i think that's a good thing for these tubes ... leads me to believe that they are not being consumed by the flames of life ... & just maybe, just maybe, we'll get 4k hr out of them (i highly doubt but i wish).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mullard 6080 "thicken up" the mids and brighten the treble of the EL3N's. Still plenty of monster bass!! Does not pair as well with the Senn's as 5998/EL3N does.

6080's + ECC31 is similar to 6080 + EL3N in the Senn phones. The ECC31 having less "clarity" than EL3N but was surprised at how similar they sounded. ECC31 has less treble. 

But they are NO slouches.

EL3N's win but not by miles and miles.

@geetarman49 - YES! Lets hope we get a lots of duty from them!!


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I read up on Bit perfect. This is what it does. 
  
True bit perfect playback is sending the audio file unaltered to the audio device.
Bit depth, sample rate, number of channels should remain unaltered.
  
  
  
Well I don't need that as I use *Audirvana Plus* and paid a $79 license for it. This is what it does:-
  

Automatic sample rate switching
*Shortest audio realtime stream, bypassing the CoreAudio high-level processing of the audio signal*
*Exclusive access, and Integer Mode enabling to push the optimization at the audio device driver level by feeding it with signal already in the 'device native format'*
*Direct Mode for bypassing the CoreAudio low-level processing of the audio signal, and enabling Integer Mode in OS Lion and later*
*Full memory play with complete loading, decoding, sample rate and format conversion (as needed) of the tracks before playing*
64-bit internal processing of the audio signal (when processing is needed) Multichannel playback on multichannel devices
Configurable up/over sampling
iZotope 64-bit SRC best in class sample rate conversion algorithm
Dithered volume control with iZotope MBIT+ dithering highly advanced algorithm with auto bypass
Audio Units plugins support for deep sound tuning
SysOptimizer disabling the OS X background services potentially interfering with sound quality 
  
 In essence, Audirvana Plus is a very sophisticated software music player that takes your audio file in it's native format and sends it to your DAC. It bypass the iMac CoreAudio processing system, so that it does not interfere with the FLAC audio signal.
  
 To implement Bit perfect, means I have to disable Audirvana Plus, which defeats the purpose of my buying it. Audirvana Plus needs to be sampled to really know how good your music sounds. There is no lost of bits. There are lots of serious users on Audirvana Plus.
  
 The same can be said of Amarra, Pure Music and Bitperfect. These are software music players specially developed for the Mac.
  
 http://www.theaudiophileworld.net/2015/04/the-audirvana-20-full-in-depth-live.html


----------



## DecentLevi

jazzvinyl said:


> *EL3N* impressions continued....
> 
> *ORGANIC* and *VINYL-ISH*
> 
> ...


 
 So JV, what DAC are you using for this infamous sound - is it the Bimby?
  
 Your reviews of the sound have been top notch. But - any chance you can incorporate a bit of your poetry again? (remember this post? One of my all time favorites ever)!
  
 Also I heard the Elise is an OTL amp. I think that means it doesn't have transformers, and I think this is a large part what makes the Elise sound the way it does.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> So JV, what DAC are you using for this infamous sound - is it the Bimby?
> 
> Your reviews of the sound have been top notch. But - any chance you can incorporate a bit of your poetry again? (remember this post? One of my all time favorites ever)!
> 
> Also I heard the Elise is an OTL amp. I think that means it doesn't have transformers, and I think this is a large part what makes the Elise sound the way it does.


 
 DL, I believe JV is spinning vinyl -- he doesn't need a DAC!


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> that's one place to get them, but there are a few other dealers around --- & as far as cryo ... pffftt;  i got lots o' stuff cryo'd including toobs --- ain't no miracle worker; more like miracle 'dressing' if you catch my drift.
> 
> absolutely ... again, there are possibly other sources ... let me check ...
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for this info, I did most of the upgrades myself and thinking about asking Lukasz to change and mess with his own creation will not go to well.
 I will do the upgrades myself if I feel they need to be done.
 Teflon tube sockets sounds like a good idea, I have modded single ended mono-amps with very good results.
 Caps are such a personal choice, I do like the beeswax capacitors myself and also like the M-caps,my pre is fully upgraded with them.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Thank you for this info, I did most of the upgrades myself and thinking about asking Lukasz to change and mess with his own creation will not go to well.
> I will do the upgrades myself if I feel they need to be done.
> Teflon tube sockets sounds like a good idea, I have modded single ended mono-amps with very good results.
> Caps are such a personal choice, I do like the beeswax capacitors myself and also like the M-caps,my pre is fully upgraded with them.


 

 Be careful there about tweaking the internals. Opening up the casing and doing those stuff will void your warranty. Unless you are confident of your own engineering expertise and have no need to fall back on Feliks Audio after purchase.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Alright I read up on Bit perfect. This is what it does.
> 
> True bit perfect playback is sending the audio file unaltered to the audio device.
> Bit depth, sample rate, number of channels should remain unaltered.
> ...


 
 if you are happy, then i am happy ... no, i mean that sincerely.
 i don't ever wish to impose my likes/dislikes on someone else especially when (with regards to bp) so much fact is being touted as being meaningful.
 i can't truly say that i'm 100% against non-bp scenarios; i rather like fade & crossfeed (implemented in the s/w player) personally, but then, these destroy the illusion of bp - so you can't have your cake & eat it too, it seems.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Be careful there about tweaking the internals. Opening up the casing and doing those stuff will void your warranty. Unless you are confident of your own engineering expertise and have no need to fall back on Feliks Audio after purchase.


 
 ROGER THAT 
 Your typing skills are very good ,I am one arm (finger)bandit here 
 What is the warranty on Elise?


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> Thank you for this info, I did most of the upgrades myself and thinking about asking Lukasz to change and mess with his own creation will not go to well.
> I will do the upgrades myself if I feel they need to be done.
> Teflon tube sockets sounds like a good idea, I have modded single ended mono-amps with very good results.
> Caps are such a personal choice, I do like the beeswax capacitors myself and also like the M-caps,my pre is fully upgraded with them.


 
 if you are talking about the <big planet> beeswax caps, let me give you a fair warning ...  a buddy of mine bought $$$$ worth of these caps (& i'm talking about the new series that's supposedly leakproof) ... well, guess what ... they all leaked & created a big mess on his vintage refurb job.   i won't touch those with a 1000' pole.


----------



## B-60

I am going to Tango with my wife before I go to bed, working tomorrow,
 Here is a good song that I do enjoy on the new HEX ,sound like I like to dance!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

*Where did the phrase "roger that" come from?  *





  
It's a hangover from the old Joint Army/Navy Phonetic Alphabet used in the 1940s: Able/Baker/Charlie/Dog. R was "Roger".

In Morse code, "received" (to acknowledge a message) was abbreviated to just "r", or .-. in Morse code. (Think of it as an early version of text speak.) When spoken aloud, R was "roger". The military continued that usage when spoken aloud.

Morse code has become much less common now, but something about the use captured the imagination (as did a lot of other military slang), and so "roger" entered the general vocabulary. "Roger that" is somebody's corruption of it which also entered the general vocabulary.


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  what happen to EL3N and Mullard 6080


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> I am going to Tango with my wife before I go to bed, working tomorrow,
> Here is a good song that I do enjoy on the new HEX ,sound like I like to dance!!!!


 
 Oh do tell about the HEX...how is it?


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> I am going to Tango with my wife before I go to bed, working tomorrow,
> Here is a good song that I do enjoy on the new HEX ,sound like I like to dance!!!!





 you have a metrum hex dac?!   (spoken a la seinfeld's  'you have a mercedes s-class?!')


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> you have a metrum hex dac?!   (spoken a la seinfeld's  'you have a mercedes s-class?!')


 

 He's talking about the HiFiman HEX headphone   Just as classy.


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> if you are talking about the <big planet> beeswax caps, let me give you a fair warning ...  a buddy of mine bought $$$$ worth of these caps (& i'm talking about the new series that's supposedly leakproof) ... well, guess what ... they all leaked & created a big mess on his vintage refurb job.   i won't touch those with a 1000' pole.


 
 I don't think that is the cap I am talking about, I had my decware pre upgraded with them, Cryo Treated Beeswax Caps with silver leads.
 Are they the same caps?


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> you have a metrum hex dac?!   (spoken a la seinfeld's  'you have a mercedes s-class?!')


 
 Sorry, I should know this by now , did not know what V10 was and thinking about Audi R8 V10 engine found out that is LG Cell phone that sound good with the HEX headphones Hihiman Edition-X.
 LOL


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> I don't think that is the cap I am talking about, I had my decware pre upgraded with them, Cryo Treated Beeswax Caps with silver leads.
> Are they the same caps?


 

 don't know ... but i'm referring to these
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_jupiter.html


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> don't know ... but i'm referring to these
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_jupiter.html


 
 No, that is not the same caps.
 Here is the pic of the inside the CSP3 with the caps.


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> Sorry, I should know this by now , did not know what V10 was and thinking about Audi R8 V10 engine found out that is LG Cell phone that sound good with the HEX headphones Hihiman Edition-X.
> LOL


 

 hahaha ... yeah, & it's (hex dac) a veritable bargain right now (2050eu ex-vat).


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl
> what happen to EL3N and Mullard 6080




Roger that...

I already commented on it. See post 5280:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/5280#post_12213802


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> you have a metrum hex dac?!   (spoken a la seinfeld's  'you have a mercedes s-class?!')


 
 No, sorry, I will not say much about the new DAC's but I did listen to 5K and 10K DAC's and was not impressed with the musicality and always sounded somewhat lean to my ears,no meat at all.
 Running modded EAD Signature dac/pre in my main system and using with my HP set-up at this time.


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> No, that is not the same caps.
> Here is the pic of the inside the CSP3 with the caps.


 
 please see Steve Deckert's response in this thread:  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1365633979
 are there any other makers of beeswax caps?


----------



## B-60

geetarman49 said:


> please see Steve Deckert's response in this thread:  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1365633979
> are there any other makers of beeswax caps?


 
 Well I stand corrected , they do sound very good.Is the heat problems and not well vented equipment maybe that they get in trouble?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Oh do tell about the HEX...how is it?


 
 The HEX is like................(Ulysse Nardin- that is for geetarman)NO GOING BACK!!!
 It is very impressive HP they are just very special, I sold my HE-560 and they will be missed.
 The music is just surrounding me and it is so hard to walk away from it, my wife is already not happy with the amount of time I am spending in my upstairs room (man cave- walk in closet)


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> Well I stand corrected , they do sound very good.Is the heat problems and not well vented equipment maybe that they get in trouble?


 
 the gear in question is well-vented & spot-checking with ir thermometer shows well below rated temp spec and yet they still failed.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Roger that...
> 
> I already commented on it. See post 5280:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/5280#post_12213802


 

 Chuckle...another roger that...  how did I miss your post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Painting the big white dot is the best modification I did to Elise. EQ went up several notches.


----------



## nojdrof

I paid for my amp about 4 days ago. Anyone know what happens next? Does Feliks send a confirmation email or anything?


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> if you are happy, then i am happy ... no, i mean that sincerely.
> i don't ever wish to impose my likes/dislikes on someone else especially when (with regards to bp) so much fact is being touted as being meaningful.
> i can't truly say that i'm 100% against non-bp scenarios; i rather like fade & crossfeed (implemented in the s/w player) personally, but then, these destroy the illusion of bp - so you can't have your cake & eat it too, it seems.


 
@geetarman49,
  
 Audirvana Plus achieves bit-perfect amongst other things. That is what I'm trying to say. This is one of Audirvana's mission:-
  
*Achieving “source direct” in addition to “bit-perfect” is key. *
  
 Incidentally, the link that you provided, http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/OperatingSystem.htm, has a reference to 'Beyond Bit Perfect: The Importance of the player software and MAC OS/X Playback Integer Mode - Damien Plisson, Audirvana developer.
  
Read this article and see how Damein explains about Audirvana Plus achieving:-
  
*4. The player software impact *
 First of all the player should ensure bit-perfect reproduction of the signal by:
 • Adapting the DAC sample rate to each track native to avoid any unwanted sample rate conversion
 • Taking exclusive access (“_hog mode_”) of the device to prevent other opened applications from interfering


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> I paid for my amp about 4 days ago. Anyone know what happens next? Does Feliks send a confirmation email or anything?


 

 I can't remember whether I get a confirmation but it's best to shoot Lukasz an email, saying that you paid and asking him to confirm receipt of your payment and asking when is the estimated date of delivery of your unit. 
  
 It could also be that Feliks Audio is on Christmas and New Year's break. Most likely. Everyone deserves a break at this time.


----------



## nojdrof

untilthen said:


> I can't remember whether I get a confirmation but it's best to shoot Lukasz an email, saying that you paid and asking him to confirm receipt of your payment and asking when is the estimated date of delivery of your unit.
> 
> It could also be that Feliks Audio is on Christmas and New Year's break. Most likely. Everyone deserves a break at this time.


They must be taking a break because I sent an email a couple days ago. Thanks, I'll try to be patient


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> They must be taking a break because I sent an email a couple days ago. Thanks, I'll try to be patient


 

 You're welcome. If you get into any issues, let me know.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm back to the controversial and famed 2031. Having spend so much time with 2 FDD20, I find this to be a bit bloated now. LOL.
  
 Bloated is a terrible word to use as this combo is spectacular. Let me explain. With 2 FDD20 + 5998 + HE560, the sound I'm getting is like wearing a tight jeans. Fits so well, it shows your thigh muscles and long legs well. When you walk, it's like the 'Good' walking into the final gunfight with the 'Bad' and the 'Ugly'. Even the chooks run for cover. Bass is mean, tight and slams you like a magnum 45. Midrange and treble are like the silver bullets out of the magnum. It ain't gonna miss the 'Bad' and the 'Ugly'. They are going down for sure.
  
 So what happens when the 'Good' swaps his magnum 45 for a machine gun. The bullets will fly and spray everywhere. You ain't going to get the precision of the magnum. That is what it's like swapping 2 FDD20 with 2031.
  
 There you go. I managed to describe a tube sound without the usual adjectives and examples. 
  
 /bow


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> The HEX is like................(Ulysse Nardin- that is for geetarman)NO GOING BACK!!!
> It is very impressive HP they are just very special, I sold my HE-560 and they will be missed.
> The music is just surrounding me and it is so hard to walk away from it, my wife is already not happy with the amount of time I am spending in my upstairs room (man cave- walk in closet)


 

 You sold what ??? The HE560 ??? Bad decision. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have you heard the HE1000?  How does the HEX compares to the HE1000?  Btw you know that Elise+EL3N+5998 will make them sing better right?


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I have on the 'Good' now and bass is phenomenal, ground shaking and earth shattering. I think my Philips Miniwatt FDD20s are well and truly burn in. Listening to Enigma and it's haunting with chilling, heart beating drum beats. Treble and midrange are perfect now. ELISE+FDD20+5998+HE560 is one class act. 
  
 Do yourself a favour. Hear it. Try this.


----------



## geetarman49

b-60 said:


> The HEX is like................(Ulysse Nardin- that is for geetarman)NO GOING BACK!!!
> It is very impressive HP they are just very special, I sold my HE-560 and they will be missed.
> The music is just surrounding me and it is so hard to walk away from it, my wife is already not happy with the amount of time I am spending in my upstairs room (man cave- walk in closet)


 

 so ...u understand ... the un (1846 model) is quite brilliant in my books - but i gave it away to a nephew in high school a couple years back (sort of a very early grad present).  this act unleashed a fury of watchbuying for their kids amongst  my other relatives - i did not expect that ... at all.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Wow I have on the 'Good' now and bass is phenomenal, ground shaking and earth shattering. I think my Philips Miniwatt FDD20s are well and truly burn in. Listening to Enigma and it's haunting with chilling, heart beating drum beats. Treble and midrange are perfect now. ELISE+FDD20+5998+HE560 is one class act.
> 
> Do yourself a favour. Hear it. Try this.




  
 Sorry again, UT...but where does one go _*beyond*_ ground shaking/earth shattering?...total _*oblivion??!!*_ - 'cos that's just where you're going once those darned adapters arrive, lol!!...(better make sure you're well strapped into your seat, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Anyway, meant to do another midnight session update last night, but my poor brain needed the comfort of sleep...it was *CRAZY, CRAZY, CRAZY!!!  :  *went back to some testing tracks I thought the FDD20s/ECC31s/C3gs had wrung dry of detail, and it was like...WHOA!, WHOA!, WHOA! - where on earth did _that_ lot come from?!...
  
 I am now totally convinced that these EL3Ns *add* _*their own*_ notes/tones/harmonics/reverb to those already on the recording, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...well, that's what it _*sounds*_ like, at least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....(Just thought you might like to know, heh heh!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 BTW @JazzVinyl, I was somewhat surprised by your findings re the Mullard 6080s with the EL3Ns and ECC31s....the ELs only slightly ahead?...weird, 'cos with my GECs and T1s the gap is absolutely *HUGE*...in _most_ departments, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(mind you, you still must have a good few more hours to put on those ELs!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Look forward to future findings...
  
 Anyway folks, must go...BFN...


----------



## geetarman49

& now for something relevant ... but different (warning --- intense reading req'd):
 http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/FindingCG.html
  
 thnx to my friend, Bill, for the link.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> @geetarman49,
> 
> Audirvana Plus achieves bit-perfect amongst other things. That is what I'm trying to say. This is one of Audirvana's mission:-
> 
> *...*


 
 ah ... well then, all is good.
 i used to be very well versed in the mac world; back in the early '90s i had what was arguably the most complex mac stations in canada and possibly n.a. too.
 but no longer ... i'm all windows now (just because it's cheaper).


----------



## UntilThen

Just read the local forum on a Bottlehead Crack build. The socket used is ceramic too. The guy who build it says that care needs to be taken with tube rolling as it is easily damage.
  
 Looks like Elise sockets are not unusually fragile after all. It's a trade mark ceramic sockets selected for quality, not for extreme tube rolling. Oh well mine has withstand more than 250 rolls and I'm about slowed down completely now. It's pure music listening now. It's what I set out to do and it's my end goal.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> ah ... well then, all is good.
> i used to be very well versed in the mac world; back in the early '90s i had what was arguably the most complex mac stations in canada and possibly n.a. too.
> but no longer ... i'm all windows now (just because it's cheaper).


 

 I too was an all Windows guy from way back to 1981, when the first IBM PC was introduced to the world and I bought one the following year. It had two 5.25 inch diskette drives, no hard disk, an Intel 8088 microprocessor, 40k of read-only memory and 16k of user memory.
  
 These days 8gb of memory is normal and 1tb of hard drive is expected. Who would even mention diskettes anymore. Even hard drives are slowly being replaced by SSD. Intel 8088 processor belongs to the museum now.
  
 I started work as programmer in 1983 with General Electric. Windows 1.0 was introduced in 1985. Windows 2.0 in 1987. Windows 3.0 in 1990, followed by Windows 3.1 in 1993. Windows 95 changed everything. 1995 was the year the world went crazy with Windows. Not surprising, as Window 95 brought about significant changes.
  
 Thereafter I changed my computer every 3 years as changes were so rapid. I needed up to date graphics card and processing power to indulge in my games. I was an avid gamer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Likewise, games changes just as rapidly. It was a time when the world was changing rapidly. If you think about it, Internet usage started growing in the mid 1990s. That's not really that long ago.
  
 So I was a Windows user up until 2010, when my wife got me a 24" iMac, followed by a 27" iMac a year later. I needed the biggest screen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ever since then, even though my work was interacting with PC, at home I will use the iMac. It's a refreshing change.
  
 Fast forward to the present time, I wouldn't have a clue that I will be so interested in Head-Fi. If you told me that 2 years ago, I wouldn't have believe you.
  
 Let's just forget about windows, who needs windows. We have an open door now to head-fi and that's more fun.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> So JV, what DAC are you using for this infamous sound - is it the Bimby?
> 
> Your reviews of the sound have been top notch. But - any chance you can incorporate a bit of your poetry again? (remember this post? One of my all time favorites ever)!
> 
> Also I heard the Elise is an OTL amp. I think that means it doesn't have transformers, and I think this is a large part what makes the Elise sound the way it does.




Hello DL...

I have no computer near the Elise and no stand alone Computer->DAC feeding the Elise (no streaming music from the internet to Elise).

Instead I use the following as sources:

1> Sony NWZ-A17 portable player (which of course has it's own DAC) it has 196 Gigs of Apple Lossless files ripped from CD's. I use the "Line Out" cord to Elise in.

2> iPod Classic - Use (3) 160 Gig iPod classics 2 have Apple Lossless from CD, 1 has only 256K MP3 from files that I don't have the CD to rip Lossless from or LP's that were converted to digital. Use a Line Out Cord to Elise.

3> iPods again via the i-Pure 20 "Dock" whch bypasses the internal DAC in the iPods and feeds it's own DAC and enables use of external an DAC from the files on the iPod. Again it's line level out, to Elise.

4> A Sony DVD player so that I can play a CD that I have not ripped yet.

5> Turntable to RIAA Preamp to Elise (100% pure analog, no DAC required ort desired).

I use a 5-Way Switch to select between inputs.

On #3 - I have hooked up an external DAC to the iPod outputs via Optical and Coaxial to a V-DAC (2009 'vintage') and I hear ts little improvement (if any) that I skip the external DAC). I also compare the iPure Dock to just a line out cord for the iPod;s internal (Wolfson chip) DAC's and they sound 99.999999999999999999999% the same to me, there is no dramatic difference. 

Also compare the Sony DVD players' line out (again it's own DAC) to the other ways of fetching digital converted analog and it also sounds 99.999999999999999999999% the same to me, there is no dramatic difference. 

I get more sound change from (3) Cartridges I have on headshells for the Turntable and of course changing tubes and/or headphone in the Elise.

I am WAY behind on things I have to get done around the house (because of months of headphone listening) so I have incorporated a classic (70's) Pioneer 35 watt amp and a pair of good quality DIY speakers to attach to the Elise line out jacks, so that I can walk about and get some home fix-up things done.

I am sorry but I don't have time to dedicate to as much careful/critical listening, or "poetry writing" at the moment 

Cheers!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Looks like Elise sockets are not unusually fragile after all. It's a trade mark ceramic sockets selected for quality, not for extreme tube rolling. Oh well mine has withstand more than 250 rolls and I'm about slowed down completely now. It's pure music listening now. It's what I set out to do and it's my end goal.




I am with you on this sentiment as well, UT. It's fun "finding out" which tube sounds best, once you *"have it"*...

Stay put, and *ENJOY the MUSIC*...

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> BTW @JazzVinyl
> , I was somewhat surprised by your findings re the Mullard 6080s with the EL3Ns and ECC31s....the ELs only slightly ahead?...weird, 'cos with my GECs and T1s the gap is absolutely *HUGE*...in _most_ departments, lol... ...(mind you, you still must have a good few more hours to put on those ELs!!   ). Look forward to future findings...
> 
> Anyway folks, must go...BFN...




Hello H1...

Maybe the 6080's blurred the differences. I did not try EL3N/5998 to ECC31/5998 as I am stressed for time, lately.

I do totally agree the EL3N sounds better. It's clearer, top to bottom, with the incredible thick and clear sounding bass, is more dynamic, and any nitpicks one could have with the ECC31 are erased in the EL3N's.

The ECC31's do still sound pretty darn good combined with the 6080's.

6080 and EL3N = 10
6080 and ECC31 = 8.75

If you didn't have EL3N's you would not know the top to bottom clarity that your missing, in the ECC31.

There are a lot of combos in Elise that sound really good.

I do agree the EL3N is best of the best of the best!! 

It's is an amazingly dynamic and real-sounding tube.

Cheers!!


----------



## Suuup

The postman woke me up this morning. 
  

  
 The only sparkle here is in the treble!
  
 Also, my C3gs look really beat up. Military tubes you say? Pretty sure min did their duty.
  
 Edit: Why is the picture quality so bad? The file on my computer doesn't look that bad.


----------



## hypnos1

geetarman49 said:


> & now for something relevant ... but different (warning --- intense reading req'd):
> http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/FindingCG.html
> 
> thnx to my friend, Bill, for the link.


 
  
 Hi g49...intense reading indeed for an amateur, but very enlightening. The different forms - and effects - of 'harmonic distortion' are truly eye-opening, and _mind-boggling, lol!!_
  
 But one of the statements that I liked most was the positive rating of* triode-strapped pentodes* (in our case, the EL3N and C3g) second only to _*direct-heated*_ triodes. Of course, the amp's entire topology must be taken into account, but in our Elises the EL3N most certainly seems to be reinforcing this observation, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(even if not strictly configured for from the outset in this amp!!).
  


untilthen said:


> Just read the local forum on a Bottlehead Crack build. The socket used is ceramic too. The guy who build it says that care needs to be taken with tube rolling as it is easily damage.
> 
> *Looks like Elise sockets are not unusually fragile after all.* It's a trade mark ceramic sockets selected for quality, not for extreme tube rolling. Oh well mine has withstand more than 250 rolls and I'm about slowed down completely now. It's pure music listening now. It's what I set out to do and it's my end goal.


 
  
 Hi UT...in our case the problem isn't actually to do with the ceramic material itself, lol - it's down to the design of the pin _receptors_ inside, and just how they're fitted/fixed (which determines whether or not they are able to be moved out of a firm, static position when inserting/removing the tube).
  
 And agree also...now time for more quality _*listening*_ time - all this analytical assessment stuff is too much like hard work, I fear!... My own finishes right here with the EL3N...*full stop!!!*       CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> The postman woke me up this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi S...they do indeed look as though they've been in the trenches! But they were designed for use in tough conditions...just so long as you _*don't 'roll' them side-to-side, of course!!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And yes, the treble is what will hit you right between the eyes (er..._ears!!_) at first, but the rest should develop with time (even if the tubes are burned-in, the adapters will need a fair while...). But I do hope they improve more to your liking. Trouble is, we have now been spoilt rotten with the ECC31, FDD20, and....you've guessed it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And yes again, sometimes I could swear my original photo isn't _too_ bad either, lol!


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...they do indeed look as though they've been in the trenches! But they were designed for use in tough conditions...just so long as you _*don't 'roll' them side-to-side, of course!!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, I think I wasn't being clear. The sparkle was mostly a reference to the adapters working. The treble is sparkling, not the adapters.
  
 I actually quite like the C3g so far. I had the Mullard 6080 when I put them in, but I wanted a bit more body, so I rolled in the 5998's. 
  
 The C3g is not as warm as the 6N7G, FDD20 and what have you. This is exactly what I need. A good complement to my collection, that is for sure.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> The postman woke me up this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 iirc, built to exacting standards exclusively for the german post - for telecom systems  ---- apparently they stockpiled 1000s when informed by their tube manufacturers that production would be ceased ... only to see the tech move from tube to ss within a couple of years.  an expensive tube w/o any further demand, these used to be as cheap as borcht (which itself isn't so cheap these days) but then somebody thought they might make good audio toobs ... & the rest is history.
  
 & why are yours so beat up?  most i've seen are absolutely pristine - nos.  are dealers hoarding stock again?


----------



## Suuup

geetarman49 said:


> iirc, built to exacting standards exclusively for the german post - for telecom systems  ---- apparently they stockpiled 1000s when informed by their tube manufacturers that production would be ceased ... only to see the tech move from tube to ss within a couple of years.  an expensive tube w/o any further demand, these used to be as cheap as borcht (which itself isn't so cheap these days) but then somebody thought they might make good audio toobs ... & the rest is history.


 
 They DO make good audio tubes actually. I've enjoyed mine for a couple of hours now. I'm a treble head at heart, so this is a very welcome addition to my collection. Been waiting almost 2 months for these adapters. 
  
 I'm not sure how much play time these have had before I got them. They certainly look used. Seller said they tested 100%. I noticed a flew 'plops' when I first rolled them in, which have since subsided -- New adapters or new tubes? Not sure. I guess if I were to clean these and remove the shielding, they could look pretty pristine. 
  
 Oh, and thank you @UntilThen for making these adapters happen!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> I too was an all Windows guy from way back to 1981, when the first IBM PC was introduced to the world and I bought one the following year. It had two 5.25 inch diskette drives, no hard disk, an Intel 8088 microprocessor, 40k of read-only memory and 16k of user memory.
> 
> These days 8gb of memory is normal and 1tb of hard drive is expected. Who would even mention diskettes anymore. Even hard drives are slowly being replaced by SSD. Intel 8088 processor belongs to the museum now.
> 
> ...


 

 i really should switch to mac (maybe a 2nd hand mac mini) & forego the aggravation & spend the $ on audirvana ... but i'm cheap so i'll stick with the free windows ultrabook and free musicbee -- though for the life of me, i can't configure the ultrabook version to resemble the musicbee interface i have running on my desktop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The postman woke me up this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Once upon a time, a one star Michelin restaurant employed a cook because the previous cook ran away with the restaurant's tube amp. The cook arrived, only to find out that all the dishes were prepared and cooked. So instead of cooking, he started to eat. There after, the cook didn't have to cook but just eat and they bought him a tube amp.
  
 It's the 3rd of Jan. and Suuup have tested the C3G adapters and found it to be working.  @CITIZENLIN tested the EL3N adapters on New Year's Eve. So now when both adapters show up, I will just eat it. Thanks guys, you save me from cooking.
  
 The stars are aligned to make these happened. Firstly, @hypnos1 wasn't tipsy when he gave me the pins connections for EL3N and C3g. Secondly I wasn't tipsy when I copy and paste the pins connections for Mrs Xu Ling. Thirdly Mrs X was a bit tipsy when she ask me funny questions but not tipsy enough to finally get what I was trying to tell her. 'Just follow the instructions' and don't question the cook was what I told her. Oh not quite. I was very polite to her. She's marvellous. 
  
*Thanks Colin*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  My heartfelt thanks! For pursuing with trying out EL3N and sharing the Shaolin pin connections secrets of EL3N & C3G with the world. 
  
*Behold, both EL3N and C3G adapters for Elise are now working. You can order them now with confidence.*


----------



## UntilThen

@Suuup does that mean you have EL3Ns and the adapters now? Well?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> @Suuup does that mean you have EL3Ns and the adapters now? Well?


 
 No EL3N adapters. Should've ordered them. Don't know why I didn't.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> No EL3N adapters. Should've ordered them. Don't know why I didn't.


 

 WHAT ??? You ordered the dessert without the main?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> WHAT ??? You ordered the dessert without the main?


 
 Well, I wanted you to test it out first. Also, the price is above 80DKK, which is about $12 USD. This means I have to pay import. Flat rate of 23 $ + 25% of the item value. It's quite expensive.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Once upon a time, a one star Michelin restaurant employed a cook because the previous cook ran away with the restaurant's tube amp. The cook arrived, only to find out that all the dishes were prepared and cooked. So instead of cooking, he started to eat. There after, the cook didn't have to cook but just eat and they bought him a tube amp.
> 
> It's the 3rd of Jan. and Suuup have tested the C3G adapters and found it to be working.  @CITIZENLIN tested the EL3N adapters on New Year's Eve. So now when both adapters show up, I will just eat it. Thanks guys, you save me from cooking.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My heartfelt thanks to you too, M...and to xulingmrs as well,of course...and to JV for setting up the Hong Kong connection, lol! Not forgetting @CITIZENLIN's bravery at being the first to test the adapters!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And I feel I must urge everybody to...._*GET THOSE EL3Ns* *AND ADAPTERS...*like *NOW!!!...*_










  
 ps. Have just a few more words to add after my latest few testing tracks this afternoon - but they'll have to wait 'til a bit later, I'm afraid...


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Well, I wanted you to test it out first. Also, the price is above 80DKK, which is about $12 USD. This means I have to pay import. Flat rate of 23 $ + 25% of the item value. It's quite expensive.


 
  
 Hey Suuup, that is just daylight robbery, lol!!  However, I can assure you it will be worth _*every single $*_...trust me!!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey Suuup, that is just daylight robbery, lol!!  However, I can assure you it will be worth _*every single $*_...trust me!!!


 

 Yes it's daylight robbery for honest tube lovers like us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Australia will soon introduce import duties for goods purchase online. Glad I'm about done with all my tubes and adapters buying.


----------



## UntilThen

This tube amp sound is so good I cannot stop listening. I've never been so hooked on any hobby. The music is moving my inner being. It's filling me with emotions. I really wanted the world to try this affordable tube amp call Elise. 
  
 I still cannot believe it drives both my planar magnetic and dynamic headphones so well. Not only that, it adds a flavour that you'll never get with ss amp. This is a living, breathing sound. It's euphonic. This word is overused but is correctly applied here. It's holographic. It's 3 dimensional. It will bring a smile to your face and tears to your eyes. Your heart will feel the pounding as you reminisce your childhood with songs of yesterday as well as set you up for a party mood with the latest k-pop girls. Thanks Oskari.
  
 Finally I get to meet all you folks online and I only know you by your sign on name. Of course, some of the names are downright funny. This tube amp craze make all this happened.
  
 Cheers to us and to 2016.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> i really should switch to mac (maybe a 2nd hand mac mini) & forego the aggravation & spend the $ on audirvana ... but i'm cheap so i'll stick with the free windows ultrabook and free musicbee -- though for the life of me, i can't configure the ultrabook version to resemble the musicbee interface i have running on my desktop
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think when Steve Jobs introduced the Mac Mini to the world, he had in mind that it will form the backbone of a good sound system, not withstanding he himself owns a vinyl system to make any audiophile's knees weak. Imagine that, the creator of the iPod, iPad, iMac, iFood and just about anything 'i', has a mouth watering vinyl based sound system himself. I hope they preserved that and showcased it to the world.
  
 The Mac Mini is ingeniously conceived and beautiful to behold. It's really a full fledged computer but so silent it's ideal to double up as a sound station.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> I think when Steve Jobs introduced the Mac Mini to the world, he had in mind that it will form the backbone of a good sound system, not withstanding he himself own a vinyl system to make any audiophile's knees weak. Imagine that, the creator of the iPod, iPad, iMac, iFood and just about anything 'i', has a mouth watering vinyl based sound system himself. I hope they preserved that and showcased it to the world.
> 
> The Mac Mini is ingeniously conceived and beautiful to behold. It's really a full fledged computer but so silent it's ideal to double up as a sound station.


 

 yeah, & if i could only find a way to entice someone to give it to me free (like my doc did with u310 touch ultrabook -- totally unexpected).


----------



## UntilThen

what happened to the EL3N and C3G adapters on eBay? I don't see them anymore.


----------



## UntilThen

what's this straight EL3N ???


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> what's this straight EL3N ???


 
 Guess you better find out.


----------



## UntilThen

A lot of 1st gen Beyer T1 on eBay now...nearly new or new. All with prices tumbling. Rubs hands with glee.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> A lot of 1st gen Beyer T1 on eBay now...nearly new or new. All with prices tumbling. Rubs hands with glee.


 
 Go get 'em cowboy.


----------



## UntilThen

Question is what does Clint Eastwood wear? 
  
 Sennheiser HD800 or beyerdynamics T1       Colt Walker 1847 or Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum
  
 Perhaps he should have both? One in each hand?
  
 both prices are tumbling, esp T1.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> A lot of 1st gen Beyer T1 on eBay now...nearly new or new. All with prices tumbling. Rubs hands with glee.


 
  
 Yo, UT...couldn't have come at a better time, with the EL3N now on the scene!...this is great news for Elise owners especially...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Re. my last promise of a few more words on my latest impressions of the EL3N, they are basically to dispel any last hint of possible 'compromise' with this tube.
  
 Up until this afternoon, I still felt there may just be the very slightest sacrifice of spatial 'magic' and some of the highest, subtlest treble frequencies due to the extensive bass and mids presence. However, my last oft-used reference pieces have put my mind _totally_ to rest, I'm happy to say    :
  
 1. The resonance of John Williams's guitar in his 'Seville Concert' CD sang in (and around!) my head as never before...it was as if my ears were perched inches away from a live instrument sitting right on my lap (which it used to do _many_ years ago when I dabbled in a little folk music, lol...). Space was in abundance even with just the solo guitar, let alone when the orchestra came in, in the Rodrigo Concerto piece.
  
 2. A similar thing happened in Joan Baez's 'Diamonds and Rust' tracks, but with steel strings instead of nylon, of course!!
 And the greater range of treble tones in the steel was truly delicious, and once again could have been right there with me in the room...
  
 3. And to finally convince me of the perfect balance from lowest bass, thru mids to highest treble, Genesis's 'Duke' album just blew me away. To hear the _mass_ of notes delivered with such clear distinction, control and cohesion "sealed the deal"...for me, anyway!!
  
 And so as I prepare to retire for the night once more, I now feel I don't really have much more to add to what I have already said about the performance of this tube...time for all you good folks to discover just what it can do for _you_, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ENJOY!!...and Goodnight...


----------



## JazzVinyl

I'm really glad that Mrs Xu Ling's adapters work for both EL3N and C3G!!

Thanks to H1 and UT for making these happen!!

Life is GOOD for the LUCKY ones


----------



## JazzVinyl

The EL3N reminds me of a superb (expensive) phono cartridge....we say expensive/superb phono cartridges sound like "nothing". 

Because it gets out of the way and lets the music be what it's supposed to be....lets the music sound like what it is supposed to sound like.

That's exactly what happens with the EL3N, it disappears completely and lets the music sound 100% natural, as though it's being preformed live for your enjoyment. 

They are astonishing and I am soooooooooo thankful for these!!! We must hang around some genius peeps to have come up with these WONDERS!!!!!

So happy....thank you UT and H1 and Mrs Xu Ling 

If the EL3N were a phono Cartridge, it would cost 5000 bucks....easy!!

Cheers to all......


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 The tube you ask about should be a mislabeled EL3. Here is a quote from the Radiomuseum site:
  
_The EL3 of the red series is a 6.3 volts- version of the AL3, including the round cathode, though with a straight tubular bulb with a narrowed upper section. As with AL3/AL4 before, after some months the EL3 was replaced with the directly replaceable EL3N, with the more efficient profile-cathode, reduced heater current and the usual dome bulb
 [Jacob Roschÿ, 13 Feb 2003]_
*Only an EL3 with a straight cylindrical bulb is a true EL3, which was produced only during a few months in 1936..37.*
*Versions with a bulgy  (ST) bulb are normally the newer EL3N's, even if only EL3 is printed on, due to indolence.*
*The same happened with tube lineup lists on radios or on schematic diagrams, where EL3 is mentioned, though EL3N is meant, since the former EL3 was obsolete then. *
  
 The above explains why some EL3N tubes are labeled as  EL3 - indolence (laziness). And the same lack of attention could account for an EL3 tube being labeled EL3N.
  
 Which leads us to the next topic: The EL11 tube. Seems that this tube is identical to the EL3N except for a different base.
  

  _In the German "steel" or all-metal tube series output- and rectifier-tubes were usually made as glass tubes as before. Hence, with exception of its Y8A "steel-tube" base, the EL11 is fully identical with the EL3N of the Philips red series from 1936. Telefunken sold this tube also as beam-power-tetrode, otherwise it was made as a true pentode only._
  

 Does anybody have any information on this tube?


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> The tube you ask about should be a mislabeled EL3. Here is a quote from the Radiomuseum site:
> 
> ...


 
 Would be interesting if this tube had the exact same sound as the EL3N. We could potentially get rid of the ugly marshmallow adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Which leads us to the next topic: The EL11 tube. Seems that this tube is identical to the EL3N except for a different base.
> 
> 
> _In the German "steel" or all-metal tube series output- and rectifier-tubes were usually made as glass tubes as before. Hence, with exception of its Y8A "steel-tube" base, the EL11 is fully identical with the EL3N of the Philips red series from 1936. Telefunken sold this tube also as beam-power-tetrode, otherwise it was made as a true pentode only._
> ...


 
  
 Yes I ask about the 6M6G, EL11, EL3NG, EL33 at one time because it's said to be the same as EL3N but with a different pin octal base. However @hypnos1  was too busy with his science experiment of EL3N, he must have missed my post.
  
 There are not too many of those tubes on eBay and what there are, are very expensive. So I didn't push it.


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





jazzvinyl said:


> The EL3N reminds me of a superb (expensive) phono cartridge....we say expensive/superb phono cartridges sound like "nothing".
> 
> Because it gets out of the way and lets the music be what it's supposed to be....lets the music sound like what it is supposed to sound like.
> 
> ...


 

 JV, I don't know much about phono cartridges but I know the good ones cost an arm and a leg. I've seen your excitement with 2031. You were so excited you needed me to try it. You said it's really good, not just because H1 says it's good. So you painstakingly hooked it up and send it a million miles to me. The same with 2 FDD20. You were lavish with your praise of these 2 combos.
  
 BUT I've not seen you go 'goo goo and ga ga' before as you're doing now with the EL3Ns. You must have thank H1, X and me a thousand times now, like we're some good looking 3 Amigos. Well tomorrow is Monday and a working day. So my adapters are getting closer with each passing day. It'll be soon before I found out whether the EL3Ns are as good as these...
  

*MIYAJIMA ZERO
 Price: £995*
www.time-step.com
 Available in both 1mil or 0.7mil formats, this hand-made mono design from Japan is set within African Blackwood (known for its musical qualities, this Tanzanian wood is used to make musical instruments such as clarinets). Playing the 1mil version on old jazz vocal records was nothing short of a revelation. Put it this way, the Zero made a mono record sound far more exciting and impressive than any stereo record that I’ve ever heard. In fact, stereo sounded gimmicky, in comparison. It was _that_ good.
  
 ps:- thanks for the thanks... I appreciate it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am really quite taken with the EL3N/5998 combo.

It's really REALLY good. 

I was sceptical that they would soar past the FDD20/5998 combo - but they easily do.

It's almost scary. Certainly makes the Elise in another class of aural acuity. 

The solidity of the entire audio spectrum is amazing. 

Your gonna LOVE it, too, I guarantee it!!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And so as I prepare to retire for the night once more, I now feel I don't really have much more to add to what I have already said about the performance of this tube...time for all you good folks to discover just what it can do for _you_, lol...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And so as any good story ends with the final curtains, this tube shall be enshrined for all immortality. BUT NOT BEFORE I DO AN AWESOME FOURSOME !!!
  
 If you think EL3N and 5998 is super, you ain't heard what 4 EL3Ns can do. Enjoy the photos, descriptions of how it sounds will come later.
  
@hypnos1  *WAKE UP. YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS.*
  
@Oskari   *What do you call four EL3N ?*


----------



## JazzVinyl

LOL...do you have 4 adapters coming, UT??


----------



## JazzVinyl

These are "tube rolling liberation" you won't want to swap tubes after EL3N/5998, you will want to soar with Eagles, in the sonic heavens.....forever!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

It's very very analog, very very natural...never heard digital sources sound like this...


----------



## mordy

HI UT,
  
 Those four EL3N tubes were a real surprise! My question is: Do you get enough bass punch and heft? When I tried the 0.9A and 1.5A tubes as power tubes I got nice sound, but felt that the tubes ran out of steam in the bass department.
  
 Just decided to try again with my (pre ELN3?) favorite drivers - the 6BL7 and FDD20. Put in a pair of 1.5A 6BL7 tubes as power tubes. Sounds good, but the bass is too lightweight and lacks slam and dynamics.


----------



## mordy

I am changing my mind - after the tubes warmed up after some 30 minutes the bass is getting much stronger - and deeper. Time to go to sleep - more tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

WOW here I'm, already have the HE560 but thinking of buying the Beyer T1. Then I read this review from Headfonics:-
  
 Now why would I buy T1 if that is the case?
  
*HE-560 Vs Beyerdynamic T1*

These headphones sound very similar to each other and share a similar shape to their sound staging and imaging properties. Both have a dry and natural tone, however the T1 exudes more sheen and treble quantity with noticeably more sibilance potential. Bass response in the HE-560 is noticeably smoother and capable of more control, however the T1 offers less kick and slam, less impact and driving force with regard to the low end. Both headphones share similar placement of the entire spectrum, something a bit more distance and not at all intimate, however still not lacking or with an overly distant feel to where everything appears out of the sonic curtain. *I consider these headphones blood brothers and absolute equals.*


----------



## DecentLevi

So UT, I guess you got your adapters today.
  
 Hey anybody with the EL3N, I would be interested if you want to try these two things:
  
 * Compare to the Elise stock tubes
  
 * Treat a non-audiophile to this experience and see what their reaction is


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> HI UT,
> 
> Those four EL3N tubes were a real surprise! My question is: Do you get enough bass punch and heft? When I tried the 0.9A and 1.5A tubes as power tubes I got nice sound, but felt that the tubes ran out of steam in the bass department.
> 
> Just decided to try again with my (pre ELN3?) favorite drivers - the 6BL7 and FDD20. Put in a pair of 1.5A 6BL7 tubes as power tubes. Sounds good, but the bass is too lightweight and lacks slam and dynamics.


 

 Ok I was in stitches for 5 mins. Rolling on the floor in agony. Now I am composed and I will offer my apology. I was bored so I placed those EL3Ns on Elise and do a photoshoot. They are not connected. Don't they look lovely? If only they will work and work well. That will be da bomb.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi  can you read post #5372 and tell me what you think ???
  
 Can everybody do that please and give me an opinion.


----------



## DecentLevi

I've tried both T1 and HE 560 several times. IMO, the T1 was too bright & thin, and the HE 560 lacked dynamics and treble extension. But this could be a different story with Elise


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> I've tried both T1 and HE 560 several times. IMO, the T1 was too bright & thin, and the HE 560 lacked dynamics and treble extension. But this could be a different story with Elise


 

 Ah I quite agree with you there DL BUT with Elise these are different headphones. I guarantee you that or at least as far as HE560 is concerned since I have it.
  
 You don't want to listen to these headphones with a ss amp. 
  
 Get a tube amp particularly Elise and your eyeballs will go upwards.
  
*What I'm looking for is an opinion regarding those 2 being very similar sounding.*
  
 Now obviously cost is a consideration here. Not trying to get an opinion of the best headphone regardless of cost. Then again there is no best headphone. It depends on who listens to it. Period. 
  
 Sorry I started a post that could go on for eternity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Every Peter, Paul and Mary will have a different opinion. Hahaha.
  
 I do know where my taste in sonic signature lies. I like it with how the HE560 sounds on Elise. I have also form an impression from reviews that T1 with Elise will give me similar sonic attributes. 
  
 Ok, I think I need to look to HD800. Look at this statement and I'm about to convert myself to classical.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*Nothing, and I mean this, nothing in the headphone world handles classical music like the HD800.*


----------



## UntilThen

Phew just came back from the HE560 impressions thread. So I wasn't the only one that love HE560 sound except in my case I only love it with a tube amp sound which Elise provides so perfectly.
  
 There are a zillion people there that loves the HE560 even over other more expensive headphones. So ok, I shall not be hasty, having already gotten 2 great sounding headphones.
  
*‘We tend to forget that happiness doesn’t come as a result of getting something we don’t have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have.’ *


----------



## DecentLevi

​ oh *Elise it doesn't matter what you say*
 I just can't stay here every yesterday
 like keep on acting out the same
 the way we act out
 every way to smile
 forget
 and *make-believe we never needed
 any more than this*
 any more than this

 oh *Elise it doesn't matter what you do
 I know I'll never really get inside of you*
 to make your eyes catch fire
 the way they should
 the way the blue could pull me in
 if they only would
 if they only would
 at least i'd lose this sense of sensing something else
 that hides away
 from me and you
 there're worlds to part
 with aching looks and breaking hearts
 and all the prayers your hands can make
*oh i just take as much as you can throw*
 and then throw it all away
 oh i throw it all away
 like throwing faces at the sky
 like throwing arms round
*yesterday
 I stood and stared
 wide-eyed in front of you*
*and the face I saw looked back
 the way I wanted to
 but I just can't hold my tears away
 the way you do*

 Elise believe I never wanted this
 I thought this time I'd keep all of my promises
 I thought you were the girl always dreamed about
 but I let the dream go
 and the promises broke
 and the make-believe ran out...

 oh Elise
 it doesn't matter what you say
 i just can't stay here every yesterday
 like keep on acting out the same
 the way we act out
 every way to smile
 forget
 and make-believe we never needed
 any more than this
 any more than this

 and every time I try to pick it up
 like falling sand
 as fast as I pick it up
 it runs away through my clutching hands
 but there's nothing else I can really do
 there's nothing else
 I can really do
 at all...​


----------



## UntilThen

This is what Elise says.


----------



## puffmtd

Elise #32 arrived here yesterday and I couldn't be more pleased.  I've got about five hours listening time in and it's handled everything beautifully.  I don't have any tubes yet to start tube rolling so I may be asking for recommendations as things go along.  I've tried to keep up with everything in this thread about different tubes but you quys move too fast for me.  Right now I'm happy just headphone rolling and enjoying the music.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Elise #32 arrived here yesterday and I couldn't be more pleased.  I've got about five hours listening time in and it's handled everything beautifully.  I don't have any tubes yet to start tube rolling so I may be asking for recommendations as things go along.  I've tried to keep up with everything in this thread about different tubes but you quys move too fast for me.  Right now I'm happy just headphone rolling and enjoying the music.


 

 Let me be the first to congratulate you and welcome to this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm glad you've a very positive initial experience. Let me assure you it get's better.
  
 I suppose you're using the stock tubes Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and Svetlana 6H13C. What headphones are you using with Elise?
  
 I'm just going to recommend you a pair of driver and a pair of power tubes. That is all you need. Get a pair of Philips EL3N driver tubes and a pair of Tung Sol 5998. Get a pair of adapters for the EL3N from xulingmrs on eBay. No hurry in jumping on these tubes. Enjoy Elise with the stock tubes first. Get 150 hours on Elise through normal listening, then she'll open up fully into glorious sound.
  
 Cheers
 UT
  
 ps.. get a pair of Siemens C3G and adapters from xulingmrs as well.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yes I ask about the 6M6G, EL11, EL3NG, EL33 at one time because it's said to be the same as EL3N but with a different pin octal base. However @hypnos1  was too busy with his science experiment of EL3N, he must have missed my post.
> 
> There are not too many of those tubes on eBay and what there are, are very expensive. So I didn't push it.


 
  
 Yes, must have missed that post, UT...this thread has been going like a flamin' machine gun lately, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I did see all the those different flavours of this tube over at radiomuseum, but I too thought the prices too high, compared to the Philips (and -type) EL3N. Plus, in one of the articles using this tube (Thomas's?), preference seemed to go to the European side-contact version, for some reason...And once I discovered just what these things can do, I saw no point in going off-track, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> It's very very analog, very very natural...never heard digital sources sound like this...


 
  
 Glad you agree, JV...(and that my midnight revelation wasn't just a lovely dream, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  


untilthen said:


> WOW here I'm, already have the HE560 but thinking of buying the Beyer T1. Then I read this review from Headfonics:-
> 
> Now why would I buy T1 if that is the case?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aahh...this is the sort of 'review' I normally take with a VERY large pinch of salt, UT. To make such sweeping statements without carrying out the experiment using a _*myriad*_ of different set-up combinations - both SS _and_ tube - is not really an accurate indication on which to make a very important (and possibly _expensive!_) decision IMHO.
  
 After all, just look at the _*wide*_ range of sound we can achieve _*just with one amp...our own Elise, for example!*_  There's absolutely _*no way*_ I would base my own purchase decision on such a 'review', lol!!...Sorry, but had to get it off my chest!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


decentlevi said:


> I've tried both T1 and HE 560 several times. IMO, the T1 was too bright & thin, and the HE 560 lacked dynamics and treble extension. But this could be a different story with Elise


 
  
 Hi DL...as per above, there are undoubtedly system set-ups and combinations that will produce such results...but I'm sure can also be _very_ misleading, lol? This truly is a _minefield_ we have to negotiate before reaching clear ground! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All I can say is - in my own set-up (and ears), Elise + EL3N 'answers' all those rather negative comments made in that 'review' of the T1 and HE560...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


puffmtd said:


> Elise #32 arrived here yesterday and I couldn't be more pleased.  I've got about five hours listening time in and it's handled everything beautifully.  I don't have any tubes yet to start tube rolling so I may be asking for recommendations as things go along.  I've tried to keep up with everything in this thread about different tubes but you quys move too fast for me.  Right now I'm happy just headphone rolling and enjoying the music.


 
  
 A New Year WELCOME to you puffmtd....where have you been hiding, lol?!...(but I can understand you've had a _lot_ to digest! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And I too am glad you're pleased with her already...this bodes very well indeed for your future joy (there are surprises galore in store for you...guaranteed!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Please keep us up-to-date with progress...CHEERS!...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Phew just came back from the HE560 impressions thread. So I wasn't the only one that love HE560 sound except in my case I only love it with a tube amp sound which Elise provides so perfectly.
> 
> There are a zillion people there that loves the HE560 even over other more expensive headphones. So ok, I shall not be hasty, having already gotten 2 great sounding headphones.
> 
> *‘We tend to forget that happiness doesn’t come as a result of getting something we don’t have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have.’ *




Right, and don't buy anything until you have heard the EL3N's - they are game changers. I like my SENNS more than my Beyers with them. I never thought that would be possible.


----------



## JazzVinyl

puffmtd said:


> Elise #32 arrived here yesterday and I couldn't be more pleased.  I've got about five hours listening time in and it's handled everything beautifully.  I don't have any tubes yet to start tube rolling so I may be asking for recommendations as things go along.  I've tried to keep up with everything in this thread about different tubes but you quys move too fast for me.  Right now I'm happy just headphone rolling and enjoying the music.




Congrats puffmtd!!!

When your ready I think we can recommend "end game" tubes for you!!

In the meantime, Enjoy!!!


--#0019--


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> BUT I've not seen you go 'goo goo and ga ga' before as you're doing now with the EL3Ns. You must have thank H1, X and me a thousand times now, like we're some good looking 3 Amigos. Well tomorrow is Monday and a working day. So my adapters are getting closer with each passing day. It'll be soon before I found out whether the EL3Ns are as good as these...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hj

EL3N = more like this $9,995.00 cart:

http://www.lpgear.com/product/KOETSUBLODSTND.html


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> hj
> 
> EL3N = more like this $9,995.00 cart:
> 
> http://www.lpgear.com/product/KOETSUBLODSTND.html


 
  
 Hey JV...the value of our Elises is going up by the hour, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







..._*love it!!!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And hey @UntilThen, with comments as in that erstwhile 'review' of T1 (and HE560), plus T1 Gen2 out now, the price of the originals may well hit the basement, lol!..._*fantastic!!!*_...'cos now I can afford to get a spare set...*Wonderful New Year!!*


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hey JV...the value of our Elises is going up by the hour, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A Graham Engineering 12 inch Phantom II would be a nice mate for the Koetsu: http://www.overtureav.com/shop/graham?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Graham_National&_vsrefdom=oav_ppc
  
 And that tonearm would certainly look nice on a Basis Debut Diamond Vaccum Signature table: http://www.overtureav.com/shop/basis?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Basis_Audio_National&_vsrefdom=oav_ppc
  
 Let's top it off with a nice phono preamp to feed out Eleses: http://www.needledoctor.com/Manley-Labs-Steelhead-RC-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=36638
  
 Shall I organize a group buy for this combination??? Maybe I can negotiate some volume discounts


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> A Graham Engineering 12 inch Phantom II would be a nice mate for the Koetsu: http://www.overtureav.com/shop/graham?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Graham_National&_vsrefdom=oav_ppc
> 
> And that tonearm would certainly look nice on a Basis Debut Diamond Vaccum Signature table: http://www.overtureav.com/shop/basis?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Basis_Audio_National&_vsrefdom=oav_ppc
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now who's being cruel, pct?!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...volume discounts?...don't think we 'Lucky Ones' number in the millions just yet, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - but nice thought, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @UntilThen...the more I look into those HE560s, the more I'm inclined to think you're spot on re. appreciating the "Bird in the Hand", lol!  Especially as in your case, you seem to have broken the established "wisdom" concerning the suitability of planar magnetics and OTL amps...*keep on enjoying, my friend!...CHEERS!*   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps.  BTW...Great 'Orson Welles' job with those 4x EL3Ns!! I should imagine you had a good few people guessing there, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But must admit, I _too_ was rolling on the floor when I eventually woke up!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 And it's a lovely thought, but one I wouldn't even think of having a go at, alas...way out of my comfort zone!...perhaps 2 per power _might_ do it, but gain/current figures I imagine are way off target...plus a whole load of other parameters...will stick to my GECs, thanks!!


----------



## UntilThen

Good morning !!!
  
 So many posts advising me not to buy the T1 since I've the HE560.... BUT.... I'm in the midst of negotiation on a T1 with a 1.5m Litz 7N pure OCC cable. I was assured the cable opens up the soundstage and you can see dolphins swimming in the skies. Your thoughts? @hypnos1 or anyone?
  
 I was told if I wish, the original cable can be reinstated for me. Anyone believe in OCC cable? What does OCC mean anyway?
 Yo @Lorspeaker I think you have some fancy cable for your HD650. Please enlighten me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You're right. Always take those reviews with a great pinch of salt. So the only way, in the interest of headphones science is to find out for myself with those 2 birds in my hands, for a fatal comparison of HE560 and T1 with Elise. I promise not to be bias, ho ho ho ho


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> hj
> 
> EL3N = more like this $9,995.00 cart:
> 
> http://www.lpgear.com/product/KOETSUBLODSTND.html


 

 $10,000 for a sewing machine needle? That belongs to HiFi where they have too much money to spend. This is Head-Fi where we're more grounded literally. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 You need to be grounded for your own sanity and humity . !!!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


>


 
  
 Beautiful (even if make believe).


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I am really quite taken with the EL3N/5998 combo.
> 
> It's really REALLY good.
> 
> ...


 
 I will drink my coffee without sugar for a week if that's true. Right now FDD20/5998 is amazeballs. 
  
 Houston, we've got a problem. Every combo seems to thrive on the 5998 and these are getting pretty rare and expensive now. Does anyone have a source for real and cheap 5998?


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Shall I organize a group buy for this combination??? Maybe I can negotiate some volume discounts


 
  
 That would have to be 99% or better…


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Beautiful (even if make believe).


 

 Never say never. One day those 4 EL3Ns will light up.


----------



## Oskari

In other news: Elise doesn't like Mullard ECC35s. They sound weak and very distorted.


----------



## geetarman49

okay ... enough talk about hps and toobs. you guys know i almost never use caps, so when i say ALGIERS and RED BARAAT ... well, u know ...

  
 the follow-up vid after should be red baraat (talk about workin' that mojo).
 i have a feeling that someone has mentioned both of these bands before but i can't find the posting (sorry for the dupe), but both are so good that i can't help myself.


----------



## rigo

bazelio said:


> So, bummer on the ETHER-C distorting.  I'd been thinking about the Elise as a work amp and have also been really interested in the ETHER-C as a closed phone for the office.
> 
> So now, I guess the decision is:
> 
> ...




 I was thinking of the exact same combo as you, Ether C and Elise. I guess not a good match. I own a pair of Senn 650s and looking to purchase a tube amp that would work with both. What is BW?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Good morning !!!
> 
> So many posts advising me not to buy the T1 since I've the HE560.... BUT.... I'm in the midst of negotiation on a T1 with a 1.5m Litz 7N pure OCC cable. I was assured the cable opens up the soundstage and you can see dolphins swimming in the skies. Your thoughts? @hypnos1 or anyone?
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is a _really_ difficult call, UT. That cable (using 'single-crystal' copper) _should  _be a step up from 'normal' oxygen-free copper, but is obviously debatable...at least the theory _sounds_ interesting, lol! (And I like to think this kind of wire I added to the pure silver ones in my tube adapting helped add a little something 'extra', lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And it sure would be an extremely interesting - and helpful - exercise to compare the 2 HPs in Elise..._*objectively, lol!!!*_





...GOOD LUCK!!...
  
  


oskari said:


> In other news: Elise doesn't like Mullard ECC35s. They sound weak and very distorted.


 
  
 Interesting observation, O...glad this is presumably using your existing tubes, and not precious current $$$£££! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Hope you have your EL3Ns...either in your possession, or on the way lol!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 You really got me there - it did go through my mind that your white bath tubs became black lol!
  
 Now, there is a spin off effect, and that is that you inadvertently inspired me to try the 6BL7 as power tubes.
  
 Experiment 1) 6BL7/FDD20 and two 6BL7 as power tubes. Sounds pretty good with a strange finding - the balance control now has to be in the middle, even though the mu of the FDD is 33 and the mu of the BL is 19. With the Mullard 6080 the balance control had to be moved to favor the BL tube which did not sound as loud.
 Which only goes to prove that three is more than one - three 6BL7 against one FDD20.
  
 Experiment 2) Four 6BL7 tubes as driver and power tubes (Westinghouse and Sylvania).
  





  
 The main benefit is that there is almost no hum, and then only at unlistenable levels. Surprisingly, my headphones have plenty of volume at 10-11 o'clock, and I cannot go beyond 12 o'clock without risking my hearing. With headphones (without music) there is a faint hum starting at 2 o'clock. Listening through speakers there is only slight hum at 90% volume.
  
 The sound is quite nice, but preliminary impressions is that it is lacking the sparkle and quickness that I get with the FDD20/6BL7 and Mullard 6080 combo. Otherwise everything else is quite good - bass is very deep, treble good, midrange and sound stage fine. I am going to let these tubes percolate for a while to see if things change (they just might) for a more seasoned opinion.
  
 The BL tubes run very hot - almost burned myself touching a power tube. Ouch!
  
 Another consolation is that I have sound much better than stock tubes for around $20.....
  
 So in sum, UT, you may just have to wait another month for a second set of bath tubs to check out your Fearsome Four (isn't that what Oskari calls 4 EL3N tubes?) LOL.......


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> In other news: Elise doesn't like Mullard ECC35s. They sound weak and very distorted.




Good to know. Same with 1635 tubes...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Interesting observation, O...glad this is presumably using your existing tubes, and not precious current $$$£££!


 
  
 Yes, like the GEC 6080WAs, which work well but need burn-in.
  
 I need to try something else as drivers.


----------



## bazelio

rigo said:


> I was thinking of the exact same combo as you, Ether C and Elise. I guess not a good match. I own a pair of Senn 650s and looking to purchase a tube amp that would work with both. What is BW?


 
  
 BW is the Eddie Current Black Widow (solid state).
  
 I've heard from a couple folks off the forum now that the MicroZotl2 (albeit at 2x the cost of the Elise, if that's a concern) can drive the Ether C with power to spare.  So if you're set on a tube amp, then that might be something to consider.  I'm considering it myself.  The Elise is out for this application for me, but I have half a mind to get one for home for fun.  But the Zana Deux S keeps me plenty occupied right now.


----------



## mordy

Hi bazelio,
  
 What kind of tubes are these?


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Yes, like the GEC 6080WAs, which work well but need burn-in.
> 
> I need to try something else as drivers.


 

 GEC 6080s, O?...  Hmmmm...as I believe these come a fair way approaching the 6AS7G variants, then the EL3N _*must*_ be the one to try, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## bazelio

6SL7 in the middle.
 6C33C-B power triodes on either side.
 The rectifiers are hidden in the back in that pic.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh wow the seller accepted my offer price for the T1 with Litz 7N 'ultra pure' OCC copper cable. Looks like I've got a nearly new T1 and my wallet's lighter.


----------



## UntilThen

bazelio said:


> BW is the Eddie Current Black Widow (solid state).
> 
> I've heard from a couple folks off the forum now that the MicroZotl2 (albeit at 2x the cost of the Elise, if that's a concern) can drive the Ether C with power to spare.  So if you're set on a tube amp, then that might be something to consider.  I'm considering it myself.  The Elise is out for this application for me, but I have half a mind to get one for home for fun.  But the Zana Deux S keeps me plenty occupied right now.


 
 I think the ZDS should keep you fully occupied without lusting for other tube amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Unless you're a collector of tube amps.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh wow the seller accepted my offer price for the T1 with Litz 7N 'ultra pure' OCC copper cable. Looks like I've got a nearly new T1 and my wallet's lighter.


 
 Congratulations, this is so exciting! When will you receive it?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Congratulations, this is so exciting! When will you receive it?


 
 Today or tomorrow. Arranging with the seller. It's a 1.5 hours scenic drive. Sigh my adapters may be arriving today or tomorrow as well. Too much happening.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Experiment 2) Four 6BL7 tubes as driver and power tubes (Westinghouse and Sylvania).
> 
> The BL tubes run very hot - almost burned myself touching a power tube. Ouch!
> 
> ...


 
 Good to know Mordy lol 
  
 Be careful about extreme heat though with 4 6BL7. I don't want you to damage your Elise. Enjoy. Maybe you'll come up with another stunning combo for a few dollars more.
  
 Hey that's another movie 'For A Few Dollars More'.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Wait...dun buy tat...ohhh u have...ahhhh nvm...going back to my monksession


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> Wait...dun buy tat...ohhh u have...ahhhh nvm...going back to my monksession


 
 Wait what?? Haven't committed about to...so tell me NOW .
  
 YO @Lorspeaker what is it you trying to tell me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speak now or forever be silent.
  
 I see you have a T1 but sold off the hd800. You have lcd2.2, he-6, hd650 with 3rd party cable. You sold off a T1 too. Are you collecting headphones? Since you sold off the hd800 and retain the T1, I gather you must prefer the T1.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Let me be the first to congratulate you and welcome to this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you sir!  So far the stock tubes are just fine and slowly getting better.  I've got around 12 hours on them so far and counting.
 I've been swapping headphones between the Fostex TH-X00, Grado GH1,Grado PS500, Hifiman HE400 and the Sennheiser HD650.  I've got a few more I need to try with the Elise but these are all sounding better than I've heard them before.
 Some of the tubes you recommended have been located and I'll probably get around to buying those and get them headed this way.  I think this is going to be a lot of fun.
 Thanks to all for the welcomes and recommendations.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Thank you sir!  So far the stock tubes are just fine and slowly getting better.  I've got around 12 hours on them so far and counting.
> I've been swapping headphones between the Fostex TH-X00, Grado GH1,Grado PS500, Hifiman HE400 and the Sennheiser HD650.  I've got a few more I need to try with the Elise but these are all sounding better than I've heard them before.
> Some of the tubes you recommended have been located and I'll probably get around to buying those and get them headed this way.  I think this is going to be a lot of fun.
> Thanks to all for the welcomes and recommendations.


 

 You're most welcome puffmtd. That's a very nice collection of headphones and you're going to have a tremendous time with Elise using all of them. 
  
 Good on you. EL3N + adapters and 5998. If you get these you should be set. I mean we have 3 ecstatic folks here already, using those tubes combo. You must have read their impressions in the last few days. 
  
 C3G + adapters are optional but I feel it will give you a nice change as the C3G sound is very unique and paired with 5998, gives a stellar performance. Very clear, detail and yet punchy sound. Plus the C3G are supposed to have a lifespan of 10,000 hours.
  
 Enjoy and continue to share your impressions.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Oh wow the seller accepted my offer price for the T1 with Litz 7N 'ultra pure' OCC copper cable. Looks like I've got a nearly new T1 and my wallet's lighter.


 
  
 That's great news, UT...WELL DONE!... (assuming L has no_ bad_ news, lol!)...
  
 If all goes well, I can't wait for your impressions...plenty going on right now for you, to be sure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 ps. I need those T1(1) prices to come down a good bit more yet, alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(need more _lovely _reviews like the one previously mentioned, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...
  
 GOOD LUCK!........


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> what's this straight EL3N ???


 
  


mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> The tube you ask about should be a mislabeled EL3.


 
  
 Can't be the EL3, which had this weird shape: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> That's great news, UT...WELL DONE!... (assuming L has no_ bad_ news, lol!)...
> 
> If all goes well, I can't wait for your impressions...plenty going on right now for you, to be sure...
> 
> ...


 

 How much lower do you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This one is at US$540 and comes with aluminium box and everything. I get the original cable too should I want to reverse back to factory.
  
 I hope L is joking or I'll pay him a visit. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Can't be the EL3, which had this weird shape: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html


 

 That's what I thought. Perhaps it's a EL4 !!!


----------



## supersonic395

Kinda cross posting from the T1.2 thread but mine arrived earlier and they already sound awesome powered by the humble cmoy (mint tin amp yes and no I'm not mental )

Can't wait to pair the T1.2 with the Elise


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Not to worry - the 6BL7 quad leaves the Elise cold - it is barely warm. The tubes themselves run quite hot, but the amp stays very cool (using socket savers/insulators), much more so than with the 6080 tubes.
  
 Further listening impressions after some 6 hours: The sound stage is very wide; on some recordings the outer edges of the sound stage emanate from a couple of feet outside of the speakers. Gobs of microdetail - heard things I did not hear before such as musicians singing along or talking in the background. Treble detail is outstanding. On the con side a little bright, and even if the bass goes very deep, it is not as well controlled as with he Mullards - a little flabby. Also, as mentioned before, a lack of slam and impact in the bass.
  
 But, all this is preliminary. There is a possibility that the tubes are new, so I have to give them some 30-50 hours to reach their potential.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Kinda cross posting from the T1.2 thread but mine arrived earlier and they already sound awesome powered by the humble cmoy (mint tin amp yes and no I'm not mental
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What you need is this Fiio X5 and E12 combo. It drives my HE560 very LOUD at 12 noon. I'll be bringing this when I collect my T1 tomorrow morning to test.
  
 Congrats on your T1 G2...enjoy !!!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Not to worry - the 6BL7 quad leaves the Elise cold - it is barely warm. The tubes themselves run quite hot, but the amp stays very cool (using socket savers/insulators), much more so than with the 6080 tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah nice Mordy... you might come up with something really interesting. Keep us informed.


----------



## mordy

There is no EL4 - only AL4. Don't know what this tube is - supposedly all EL3N tubes were ST type and not tubular.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> What you need is this Fiio X5 and E12 combo. It drives my HE560 very LOUD at 12 noon. I'll be bringing this when I collect my T1 tomorrow morning to test.
> 
> Congrats on your T1 G2...enjoy !!!




Cheers for the recommendation dude  

However 

The only further audio equipment I'll be getting is the Sony Zx100 and elise. For now that is


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> There is no EL4 - only AL4. Don't know what this tube is - supposedly all EL3N tubes were ST type and not tubular.


 
  
 Apparently there was somebody making tubular EL3Ns, perhaps Visseaux. They are not as goofy-looking as the early EL3s.
  
 See http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubecollection/patrice_zeissloff~38.html


----------



## B-60

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> You really got me there - it did go through my mind that your white bath tubs became black lol!
> 
> ...


 
 Mordy,soon you will need small stool to insert the tubes to elise...lol
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





mordy said:


> Hi bazelio,
> 
> What kind of tubes are these?


 
 They are Russian 6c33c Power tubes that some guru in China made them to put out 22 watts of pure Class A.
 They ware used in MIG 25 Russian fighter jets back in late 1970

 Enjoy!!!


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> The only further audio equipment I'll be getting is the Sony Zx100 and elise. For now that is


 
 The Sony Zx100 looks like a very nice portable player. Yes indeed that is all you ever need.
  
 Looks like adapters are not coming today and I'll be collecting my T1 tomorrow morning.
  
 What headphone were you using prior to T1 G2? How much of an improvement do you feel now even with your tinny amp.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> They are Russian 6c33c Power tubes that some guru in China made them to put out 22 watts of pure Class A.
> They ware used in MIG 25 Russian fighter jets back in late 1970


 
 I'm sure those fighter jets hum. They need to be grounded.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> I'm sure those fighter jets hum. They need to be grounded.


 
 They grounded them long,long,long time ago but they still humming!


----------



## UntilThen

@Lorspeaker what did you want to tell me about the T1 ?
  
 Incidentally the Gen 2 also use 7N OCC copper cable textile braided just like the unit I'm getting.


----------



## B-60

Hi all,
 I have a question that just got in my head, Elise is rated from 32 Ohm and the HIFIMan Edition X is rated at 25 Ohm
 Would some one see any problems with that ,like gain problems or more hum from tubs and transformers.
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi all,
> I have a question that just got in my head, Elise is rated from 32 Ohm and the HIFIMan Edition X is rated at 25 Ohm
> Would some one see any problems with that ,like gain problems or more hum from tubs and transformers.
> Cheers


 

 Well my Sennheiser Momentum at 18ohms plays well on Elise. So we need you to be the guinea and try out Elise with the HEX. I think it's more than just ohms but the sensitivity of the HP too.
  
 HEX is 25ohms + or - 3ohms and 103db
  
 If it doesn't work, sell off the HEX and buy the HE560 again or the T1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Welcome to the mad world of upgrading. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Read this...review on HEX

 Impedance : 25 ± 3 ohm​   
 Rule of thumb says the amp should have an output impedance under, what, 3 ohms?  I think even a cell phone does that these days. However conventional wisdom says planar magnetics aren’t as bothered about impedance as much as dynamics.
  
 I ran these on amps with 0.03, 3, 8, 12 and 120 Ohm impedance outputs. There was a definite sound change with the 120 Ohm out but otherwise I didn’t hear much I could pin on the impedance.
  

  
  
 It's an expensive headphone and at that price it better deliver. However headphone is very personal. As long as you're happy with the sound with your synergised setup, that's all that matters. Don't worry too much about expert opinions.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Well my Sennheiser Momentum at 18ohms plays well on Elise. So we need you to be the guinea and try out Elise with the HEX. I think it's more than just ohms but the sensitivity of the HP too.
> 
> HEX is 25ohms + or - 3ohms and 103db


 
 What is the sensitivity on the Momentum?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Well my Sennheiser Momentum at 18ohms plays well on Elise. So we need you to be the guinea and try out Elise with the HEX. I think it's more than just ohms but the sensitivity of the HP too.
> 
> HEX is 25ohms + or - 3ohms and 103db
> 
> ...


 
 Ha Ha Ha, no way I am giving up The HEX, maybe I should just go with Woo WA6 or maybe Feliks audio Espressivo amp for starters or just stick to my Schiit LYR2 for now?
 Just noted the Espressive is :

Optimal headphones impedance: 100 - 300 ohm

 I have lots of small signal tubes, 12AU7,12AT7, 12AX7 6DJ8


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> The Sony Zx100 looks like a very nice portable player. Yes indeed that is all you ever need.
> 
> Looks like adapters are not coming today and I'll be collecting my T1 tomorrow morning.
> 
> What headphone were you using prior to T1 G2? How much of an improvement do you feel now even with your tinny amp.




The Beyerdynamic Dt 770 

Big improvement with same source and amp. Now just let me get those flacs and pump them through the Elise.

A bit on the improvements: 

The entire range is more magnificent. I was most pleased with the bass as the 770 are closed and known for their bass yet the T1.2 has even better bass which was surprisingly pleasant given the cans are semi open and the t1.1 had a bit of a "bass light" rep amongst the infidel defilers 

The soundstage and imaging improvements are of course in another league.

I'll hold off on posting more until I receive the Elise and join Bowman in the Stargate whilst enjoying sonic enlightenment


----------



## mordy

Hi B-60,
  
 The small signal tubes can be used in the Elise, but they don't sound as good in the Elise as the octal tubes discussed on these pages.
  
 With the right tubes the Elise is magical - not just good or very good.


----------



## B-60

mordy said:


> Hi B-60,
> 
> The small signal tubes can be used in the Elise, but they don't sound as good in the Elise as the octal tubes discussed on these pages.
> 
> With the right tubes the Elise is magical - not just good or very good.


 
 Thank you mordy,
 I am waiting for Lukasz to respond to my email, I am sure I will go for that amp, I am very impressed with what I am reading here and thank you all for a good advise.
 Magical?????I like that word a lot, I like magical, I think I can say that about the HEX HP that I pick up 2 weeks ago.
 I am getting greedy and want more from them ,I think with the right amp they will be MAGICAL!!!


----------



## UntilThen

I really think the new TOTL headphones are way too expensive now. When they break the $1000 threshold with the HD800, the world gasped  but now you've headphones that approaches $3000 plus.
  
 I think you can be very happy with a HD800 or T1 or HE560 with Elise. Now that is cost saving and great sound. Ok I'll include LCD2.2 for @jerick70 's sake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not forgetting the HDxx and DTxxx and AKGxxx 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Where's the darn adapters !!! It might make my HD650 a $3000 headphone. Or did you say $5000? @JazzVinyl


----------



## B-60

@JazzVinyl,Hi JV
 Good to know that there is some one here, and I am sure there are more people that in to Vinyl and the list growing every day.
 I will be moving My VPI Classic TT to my HP set up upstairs and getting excited about it.
 Regards


----------



## Lorspeaker

T1 is one of the better buys in headfi.....
And when it comes with an exotic cable, 
It is hard to pass it by. 
Just pay up !!! 




I haven't seen my t1 for a long long time.....lol.
The yammie n the Monk have been consuming.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Thank you for finding the picture of the tubular EL3N - it really seems that a few were made in tubular shape.
  
 The question is now if these sound the same or as good as the ST shaped (bulgy) EL3N tubes. So far our collective experience has been that ST shaped tubes usually sound better than their tubular counterparts.
  
 Examples are from the 6AS7 and 6N7G families. Compare GEC A1834 to GEC 6080 and ST type 6AS7/G and 6N7G to the same type tubes with tubular envelopes (6080/6AS7GA and 6N7GT) - they do not get the same acclaim as the ST types.
  
 I know that this a a generalization, and maybe it does not make sense rationally, but  practically it seems to be a valid rule.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lorspeaker said:


> Wait...dun buy tat...ohhh u have...ahhhh nvm...going back to my monksession




Yeah for *Thelonious*!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Congrats UT on Beyer T1 and special cable!!

My Senn 580's have 99.8% pure Silver cables...


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Ha Ha Ha, no way I am giving up The HEX, maybe I should just go with Woo WA6 or maybe Feliks audio Espressivo amp for starters or just stick to my Schiit LYR2 for now?
> Just noted the Espressive is :
> 
> Optimal headphones impedance: 100 - 300 ohm
> ...


 

 What makes you think the WA6 will drive your HEX better than Elise?   Someone once had the Elise and WA6 and he thinks Elise is way ahead in another league. Senn Momentum is 18 ohms and 113db.
  
 And don't get the Expressivo over Elise. You've bought a good headphone in HEX, you need some juicy amplification for it. No doubt the review says you can drive the HEX even with a portable Fiio amp.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> What makes you think the WA6 will drive your HEX better than Elise?   Someone once had the Elise and WA6 and he thinks Elise is way ahead in another league. Senn Momentum is 18 ohms and 113db.
> 
> And don't get the Expressivo over Elise. You've bought a good headphone in HEX, you need some juicy amplification for it.


 
 Good to know UT,
 I had WA3 driving HD600 at one point and I did like the combo.I am sure that Elise will be better....just testing you


----------



## mordy

HI JV,
  
 Lorspeaker means the VE Monk earbuds, but you knew that...
  
 They get such accolades that I ordered a pair - $8 shipped.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-a-5-earbud-that-seriously-deserves-a-place-here/1065#post_12217176


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Good to know UT,
> I had WA3 driving HD600 at one point and I did like the combo.I am sure that Elise will be better....just testing you


 

 Well I think WA3 is marginally better than the Darkvoice 336se. Now I'll get flamed for sure LOL. 
  
 I had the DV 336se with Raytheon 7N7 and Tung Sol 5998 using HD650. That is an affordable but very enjoyable setup. Great sound.
 However with Elise, I've not touch my DV336se for 2 solid months !!! 
  
 Don't even compare those 2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm running Elise now with 2 Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998 using HE560. This is high end sound. I'll say this without reservations.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Well I think WA3 is marginally better than the Darkvoice 336se. Now I'll get flamed for sure LOL.
> 
> I had the DV 336se with Raytheon 7N7 and Tung Sol 5998 using HD650. That is an affordable but very enjoyable setup. Great sound.
> However with Elise, I've not touch my DV336se for 2 solid months !!!
> ...


 
 You did come long,long way to get where you are, and with the stock tubes that Lukasz is offering with the amp of the time of purchase,
 how that set up will compare to WA3 or WA6 (stock) or DV stock?


----------



## Lorspeaker

This Monk gets crazyspacious when i plugged in the silverplated vmoda extention cable...
And a richer body when i top it off w an Audeze 1/8 adaptor .
The detailed ripplingwave of sound, deep into the soundscape on a quiet night is astounding.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> T1 is one of the better buys in headfi.....
> And when it comes with an exotic cable,
> It is hard to pass it by.
> Just pay up !!!
> ...


 

@Lorspeaker  I'll hug you next time I see you. I'm getting this at the first breaking of dawn tomorrow. 
  
 It's good you think highly of exotic cable. I almost ask the seller to reinstate to original cable.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> This Monk gets crazyspacious when i plugged in the silverplated vmoda extention cable...
> And a richer body when i top it off w an Audeze 1/8 adaptor .
> The detailed ripplingwave of sound, deep into the soundscape on a quiet night is astounding.


 

 Are you a monk salesman now? Soundscape on a quiet night....that will sell a thousand more monks. !!!
  
 Maybe I shouldn't buy the T1 and buy the monk instead?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> Thank you for finding the picture of the tubular EL3N - it really seems that a few were made in tubular shape.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Goes hand in hand with the preference for older tubes.
  
 P.S. Found this as well: http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/EL34-Story/EL34-Story-Dateien/al3/al3.htm


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> You did come long,long way to get where you are, and with the stock tubes that Lukasz is offering with the amp of the time of purchase,
> how that set up will compare to WA3 or WA6 (stock) or DV stock?


 

 I came from a pair of earbuds that's how far I've come   Now Lorspeaker is trying to get me back to earbuds. 
  
 DV stock will give you permanent constipation. I can't comment on WA3 & WA6 stock tubes - I haven't even heard them. Elise stock tubes are above average and good from the get go. Try it.


----------



## B-60

bazelio said:


> 6SL7 in the middle.
> 6C33C-B power triodes on either side.
> The rectifiers are hidden in the back in that pic.


 
 Hi bazelio,
 How is this amp???
 I use to have mono amps with the same tubs and 6sl7 and 6sn7 driver tubes, they ware very good and that was the last Tube amp that i had in my main system before I went to the dark side.
 Cheers,


----------



## Lorspeaker

untilthen said:


> Are you a monk salesman now? Soundscape on a quiet night....that will sell a thousand more monks. !!!
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't buy the T1 and buy the monk instead? :blink:





Tat would be a grandsum of 50bucks with all the adaptor/ cable contraptions thrown in...
for a T1killer . ... but u can afford to get them ALL,


----------



## bazelio

b-60 said:


> Hi bazelio,
> How is this amp???
> I use to have mono amps with the same tubs and 6sl7 and 6sn7 driver tubes, they ware very good and that was the last Tube amp that i had in my main system before I vent to the dark side.
> Cheers,




It's absolutely fantastic.


----------



## B-60

bazelio said:


> It's absolutely fantastic.


 
 Here is Canada is getting cold, I would for sure benefit having this amp in my small office ...lol
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 How is the life of the 6C33C tubes with this amp, self-biasing circuit topology??


----------



## bazelio

b-60 said:


> Here is Canada is getting cold, I would for sure benefit having this amp in my small office ...lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't say first hand, as I've not had this amp long enough to know.  But in theory their life should be many 1000s of hours in this application.  This circuit isn't trying to get anywhere near 60W out of them.  I think some folks have said 10000 hours?
  
 Not too concerned about it either way.  They're pretty inexpensive.  I've already spent more on 6SL7 rolling than I'll probably ever spend to replace the power tubes.


----------



## B-60

bazelio said:


> I can't say first hand, as I've not had this amp long enough to know.  But in theory their life should be many 1000s of hours in this application.  This circuit isn't trying to get anywhere near 60W out of them.  I think some folks have said 10000 hours?
> 
> Not too concerned about it either way.  They're pretty inexpensive.  I've already spent more on 6SL7 rolling than I'll probably ever spend to replace the power tubes.


 
 Ok, good to know, in the amps that I had they run so hot ,hot I sad that after some time I had to change the tube sockets to get going with it ,and after 7 to 8 months they ware DONE!
 I am sure in your amp they will go far more then in my case.The only store that I would buy them from (if your ever need more is the tube store)
 They are the only one to my knowledge that test them with proper tester, here we go, some one will say about this ,we are talking about Amplitrex AT1000 tube tester, this is as good of the tester as it will ever get!!!
 Thank you for that info, will do more homework!
 Regards


----------



## bazelio

b-60 said:


> Ok, good to know, in the amps that I had they run so hot ,hot I sad that after some time I had to change the tube sockets to get going with it ,and after 7 to 8 months they ware DONE!
> I am sure in your amp they will go far more then in my case.The only store that I would buy them from (if your ever need more is the tube store)
> They are the only one to my knowledge that test them with proper tester, here we go, some one will say about this ,we are talking about Amplitrex AT1000 tube tester, this is as good of the tester as it will ever get!!!
> Thank you for that info, will do more homework!
> Regards


 
  
 They're definitely toasty, but this amp dissipates heat well.  The entire chassis is a heat sink.  So there's a lot of surface area.
  
 Tube life is of course going to be very circuit dependent, though.


----------



## Suuup

bazelio said:


> They're definitely toasty, but this amp dissipates heat well.  The entire chassis is a heat sink.  So there's a lot of surface area.
> 
> Tube life is of course going to be very circuit dependent, though.


 
 Can we make those 6C33C work in Elise? Make her into our own ZD.


----------



## UntilThen

You probably won't need anything more after EL3N and 5998. 
  
 For now, I really don't feel the need to upgrade or wish for another tube amp simply because there's nothing I find missing from what Elise can give me and this is just with 2 FDD20 and 5998. You can say I'm more than content. 
  
 Even though I'm curious with how she would perform with other tube amps, I'm not really bothered with a shoot out too. When you're getting this good sound, everything else becomes irrelevant. I mean if someone thrust a ZD on my lap, I'll do a comparison otherwise I'm not perturbed. Besides why try to pit Elise with a tube amp that cost $2300, not that cost is everything.
  
 Ah excited, setting off early tomorrow to get the T1.


----------



## UntilThen

Gee, HE560 with Fiio X5 and E12 sounds good too.  A lot of punch.


----------



## Lord Raven

I just died and went straight to the heaven..


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I just died and went straight to the heaven..


 

 from what .... too much joy?
  
 In 12 hours time, I'll be holding the T1 in my hands and I can guarantee you just when I'm out, the adapters will arrive.
  
 Don't you think you should change your avatar to 4 EL3Ns?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> from what .... too much joy?
> 
> In 12 hours time, I'll be holding the T1 in my hands and I can guarantee you just when I'm out, the adapters will arrive.
> 
> Don't you think you should change your avatar to 4 EL3Ns?


 
 I am listening to DSD music through Femto Clocks on my DAC and NOS Tung Sol 5998 tubes as powers and FDD20s are drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You are right, I should change my avatar to all EL3N tubes, let me get my camera out, I need best exposures of EL3N tubes.
  
 Please shoot an email to Peter, he said he will ship a single tube EL3N but it's been days that I have not heard from him (New year holidays maybe).
  
 Brother, this is the highest I would ever go into head-fi world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Never ever thought I would have Tung Sol 5998 tubes, and DSD music and a super dual mono DAC chips and Femto clocks, and FDD20s.
  
 I am definitely in heaven!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes FDD20 / 5998 is an amazing combo. It's in my Wall of Tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That reminds me, I have to update my chart.
  
 Can you get your Femto alarm clocks to wait me up at 6am tomorrow?
  
 Give Peter a break. He's tired of sending out tubes. He needs a holiday. Don't worry, if he says he will send, he will indeed send. Wait another 5 days then I'll hassle him. What's the hurry. You have 3 tubes and the adapters haven't reach you.


----------



## UntilThen

IMO your setup is a very sensible choice. No need to burst the piggy bank. HD600, once the crown of Sennheiser and still selling like hotcakes for only 300 plus. Geek, I dunno 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Elise with FDD20 / 5998 is pure magic. Forget about expensive tube amp. This is expensive tube amp sound.
  
 You're in for a real treat. Next you need to buy the T1 before the 1st Gen runs out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So open your wallet again.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Yes FDD20 / 5998 is an amazing combo. It's in my Wall of Tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Listening to my favorite, Elton John on DSD, and music never felt this ever before. DSD is 64 times the CD audio sampling rate and is the closest to Vinyl than PCM.
  
 The Femto Clocks can only make you sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can to listen to it to believe, bribe me to bring my DAC and music library to the Oz!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> IMO your setup is a very sensible choice. No need to burst the piggy bank. HD600, once the crown of Sennheiser and still selling like hotcakes for only 300 plus. Geek, I dunno
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 HAHAHA.. You made me laugh on that T1 comment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Brother, remember that thread with more than 100 HPs? Battle of the flagship HPs? HD600 is among the top 4 LOL
 I don't think I will ever have to upgrade from it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Thanks for acknowledging the rest of my setup, I have come a long long way.


----------



## DecentLevi

@UntilThen Do you have 4 adapters for the EL3Ns on the way? I'm also interested to see how it goes with all 4
  
@hypnos1 That was in no way a 'review' of those two headphones. It was just some general impressions I recalled off the top of my head from trying them at meet's. Also for anyone who loved the HE 560's, do note that these things really benefit from modding. There are several popular threads on here dedicated to modding these babies, such as the Jerg Mod, and this really takes them to another level.
  
 @ anybody else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Come on humor me... someone's gotta give these a shot:
   Let an outsider try the EL3N setup and get their reaction
   Compare these to the stock tubes
  
 Good evenin' all


----------



## UntilThen

I don't have 4 adapters coming for EL3N. That photo was just for show. 
  
 IMO, you don't need to mod the HE560. You only need a capable tube amp with good tubes on Elise. Tuned to perfections. You don't need any pads modification or cutting up the headphones. With tubes you have a lot of leeway for tuning. But then again whatever floats one's boat.
  
 I don't think you need to compare EL3N / 5998 with the stock tubes. You can even compare C3G / 5998 with the stock tubes and it's miles apart. The stock power tube whilst having a good bass is a bit recessed and dark. The stock driver fares better but still no where compared even to a 7N7. Definitely trials the C3G. It will be lagging so far behind the Mazda, Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G or Mullard ECC31. FDD20 will take that gap even further apart. 
  
 I know this makes the stock tubes sounds really bad but they aren't. It's just that the other tubes are so much better. Hope that makes sense. It's until you hear it, then you'll see for yourself.


----------



## UntilThen

Tubes selections will change the way the headphone sound quite significantly. I myself consider the HE560 bright and lean when I paired it with the Schitt Modi 2 Uber and Schitt Magni 2 Uber. It's the same with JDS Lab O2+ODAC. I never enjoy it in those setup, preferring my HD650 more. However, once I pair it with Elise, the HE560 becomes a different beast. You get an organic sound with 'full' body. Any trace of brightness and leanness is gone. Bass gets more impact and goes much lower. It's like magic. There's nothing I need to mod my HE560 with Elise and FDD20 / 5998. It just sounds right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wish you were here to listen to it... 
  
@puffmtd can tell you how much he enjoys his HE400 with Elise + stock tubes now.
  
 Nearly everyone who listens to Elise for the first time will be quite shock with what they hear. It's like they don't believe what they are hearing. It's that good. I remember jerick's reaction. It's quite funny. He says his head is like falling off listening to the LCD2.2 with Elise. He's bobbing it too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Anyhoo I'm too excited to get my hands on the T1. I have heard H1 praising it too much and quite a few others like Suuup and @CITIZENLIN. The latest being supersonic but he has the Gen 2. I think high impedance dynamic headphones are a natural fit in Elise. I'm sure HD800 will sound good on it.


----------



## Lord Raven

DL, I think you have a plan to not upgrade from stock tubes just like I did when I first received my Elise  You can do that, I listened to stock Elise for 4-5 months before I changed my mind.
  
 If you ask to compare a top tier tube with the bottom one, you'll obviously get night and day difference. I am sure if anyone out there is still running stock tubes is in heaven, this amplifier is definitely magic.
  
 If I had to buy Elise again, I would skip stock tubes and buy EL3N for the cost I save. Those stock tubes I got are now useless for me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...realized after I had posted 





mordy said:


> HI JV,
> 
> Lorspeaker means the VE Monk earbuds, but you knew that...
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

$8 shipped and @Lorspeaker is charging me $50 !!!
  
 LOL to this .... Yeah for *Thelonious*!!


----------



## UntilThen

Let's hear some updates from other Elise owners. We want your feedback.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> @ anybody else   Come on humor me... someone's gotta give these a shot:
> Let an outsider try the EL3N setup and get their reaction
> Compare these to the stock tubes
> 
> Good evenin' all




Hello DL...

I would if I had any nearby HP aficionados.... 

And - there is no need. 
The difference is so extreme that no one would say "yeah but I like the stock tubes better"...ain't gonna happen.

Cheers...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> .... Yeah for *Thelonious*!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Listening to *Santana - Abraxax* (1970) [DSD]
  
 I cannot believe my ears, I think I got new ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Equipment: *DSD>DAC>ELISE>HD600>HEAVEN*
  
 Tubes: *Philips Miniwatt FDD20*>*Tung Sol 5998*
  
 I listen to layers and layers of music, detail after detail, transcending experience for someone who has never listened to anything than stock Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I must admit, I would have switched off the lights and close my eyes if I did not have to write this post. I should do that, quit forum right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's been since the arrival of Elise that only now I feel like raising the volume to beyond my listenable limits woohoo!!!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Let's hear some updates from other Elise owners. We want your feedback.


 
  
 6N1P is not bad at all. Quite punchy. Perhaps a little edgy (but it could be something else).


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi folks, just about to go to bed, but wanted to point out some odd misunderstandings.
  
 I don't have the Elise yet, finances pending. I only have the EL3N's so far.
  
 Gee, I guess these ideas were especially misunderstood.
 I was saying to ask somebody who's not into headphones to try the EL3N setup - a Joe / Jane Shmoe and see if it's still able to impress them.
 And undoubtedly I feel the EL3N's must be bounds above the stock tubes, but was just interested to see what kind of solid quantifiable differences there are. I've done that before on another amp and the attributes of the better one became more clear this way. Just for an interesting read. 
  
 Optionally of course. Thanks & enjoy


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Listening to *Santana - Abraxax* (1970) [DSD]
> 
> I cannot believe my ears, I think I got new ears
> 
> ...




Very Nice LR!!

I have a like new vinyl of Abraxes, it is a FANTASTIC album!!!

Congrats on the "tuned" system!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Hi folks, just about to go to bed, but wanted to point out some odd misunderstandings.
> 
> I don't have the Elise yet, finances pending. I only have the EL3N's so far.
> 
> ...




Hello DL

I find folks that are not into audio quality - don't have, or like or want to listen to headphones.

Did have my daughter listen one day (she qualifies as 'not in to audio quality') and she did acknowledge how nice it sounded (at that time it was 6080/6N7G) but she didn't go gaga, because she isn't into sound quality.

Most folks are not...and can't appreciate the effort.

Music is "background noise" to everyone, but us crazy fools 

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

That's true. Not many are really into headphones listening.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi...you're probably asleep by now, but hey...certainly wasn't including you in my rant about the T1 vs HE560 'review' UT brought to our attention, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 In your own case, it was indeed a real shame you didn't get to hear the HPs to their best advantage...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope you soon manage to get close to grabbing your own Elise...and had hoped to have given a full and comprehensive (ad nauseum, in fact!!) assessment/description of the EL3Ns' performance in the Elise - along with @CITIZENLIN and @JazzVinyl?
  
 Ah well, never mind...hopefully you will soon be able to discover the 'magic' for yourself - words really are not quite enough to give the _full_ picture!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...so please _hurry_, lol!


----------



## Lorspeaker




----------



## puffmtd

My iem's are not happy with me right now.  I've been listening to Elise for the past 6 hours or so and it's just getting better.
 The EL3N's and Siemens C3G's are on the way.
 Xulingmrs is on holiday so the adapters will have to wait until then.
 I'm still trying to source some Tung Sol 5998's.
 It's a good day so far.


----------



## bazelio

b-60 said:


> Ok, good to know, in the amps that I had they run so hot ,hot I sad that after some time I had to change the tube sockets to get going with it ,and after 7 to 8 months they ware DONE!
> I am sure in your amp they will go far more then in my case.The only store that I would buy them from (if your ever need more is the tube store)
> They are the only one to my knowledge that test them with proper tester, here we go, some one will say about this ,we are talking about Amplitrex AT1000 tube tester, this is as good of the tester as it will ever get!!!
> Thank you for that info, will do more homework!
> Regards


----------



## pctazhp

puffmtd said:


> My iem's are not happy with me right now.  I've been listening to Elise for the past 6 hours or so and it's just getting better.
> The EL3N's and Siemens C3G's are on the way.
> Xulingmrs is on holiday so the adapters will have to wait until then.
> I'm still trying to source some Tung Sol 5998's.
> It's a good day so far.


 

 I don't know where you live, but there is a pair listed now on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-CHATHAM-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-/181978386506?hash=item2a5ec1d04a:g:dZkAAOSwT~9WhqDn
  
 Pretty expensive, but I think this is probably the going price right now.
  
 I'm envious of you. I'm still waiting for my Elise !!!


----------



## hypnos1

Well folks, although I said last time there probably wasn't more I could add to my plethora of reports on the EL3Ns, something else has just hit me in a way that (once again!) has never done so to the same degree ever before, courtesy of Cat Stevens's remastered 24bit 96kHz 'Tea for the Tillerman', and Clannad's 'Magical Ring' albums...ie. the _*absolute*_ _*precision*_ not only re "PRaT", but of overall placement of _all_ elements in the recording by the (masterful) sound engineer, and their relationship to each other...no vagueness of positioning, or 'bleeding' into each other unintentionally. This is 'clarity' and cohesion of the *highest* order, and one that is, to be honest, quite new to me...and left me not with the usual smile on my face, but jaw _down_ and eyes _wide..._not to mention lost in total wonder, lol...
  
 So perhaps this time, there will _not_ be anything more to add?...who knows?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 Welcome to 2016...once again!!


----------



## bazelio

pctazhp said:


> I don't know where you live, but there is a pair listed now on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-CHATHAM-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-/181978386506?hash=item2a5ec1d04a:g:dZkAAOSwT~9WhqDn
> 
> Pretty expensive, but I think this is probably the going price right now.
> 
> I'm envious of you. I'm still waiting for my Elise !!!


 
  
  
 Those are sexy tubes for sure.  But, holy crap, they're 50% the cost of the Elise itself aren't they?  What are you guys spending on tubes for this amp?  Just curious.


----------



## puffmtd

pctazhp said:


> I don't know where you live, but there is a pair listed now on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-CHATHAM-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-/181978386506?hash=item2a5ec1d04a:g:dZkAAOSwT~9WhqDn
> 
> Pretty expensive, but I think this is probably the going price right now.
> 
> I'm envious of you. I'm still waiting for my Elise !!!


 

 Thanks pctazhp, I had seen those but was hoping to find some a little cheaper.  After doing some searches, I think you're probably right about this being the market price. 
 I know it's a long wait but it will be worth it when you get your Elise.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 I am sure that you are all very curious how my quad of EL3N is developing ....oops! I meant to say my quad of 6BL7 tubes lol. Just trying to get your attention...,
  
 The tubes have been percolating now for a little over 24 hours. The Elise is downright cold, with the transformer housing just very slightly warm. The bass has firmed up and is better controlled, and it has more weight than before, but still lacking real slam. The sharpness in the treble is receding.
  
 There is a great clarity and tremendous detail present - think studio monitor.
  
 Here is a night scene from BL Blvd:
  




  
 Will give the tubes another 24 hours.


----------



## UntilThen

bazelio said:


> Those are sexy tubes for sure.  But, holy crap, they're 50% the cost of the Elise itself aren't they?  What are you guys spending on tubes for this amp?  Just curious.


 

 Perhaps you're not aware that the Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6AS7G are coveted by users of other tube amps as well. Such as Bottlehead Crack, La Figaro, Woo Wa2, Wa22, Glenn's amp, etc.  That's the reason why the price has gone up so high. 
  
 It is no secret that they do sound special. One just have to try it to know. Do you have to spend such amount on tubes? Well that's for individuals to decide. However in my experience, if you do get into those tube amps and you get yourself a good headphone, you will make the plunge for these power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


>





 Thanks L, I enjoyed this


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I don't know where you live, but there is a pair listed now on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-CHATHAM-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-/181978386506?hash=item2a5ec1d04a:g:dZkAAOSwT~9WhqDn
> 
> Pretty expensive, but I think this is probably the going price right now.
> 
> I'm envious of you. I'm still waiting for my Elise !!!


 

 Price is so expensive now. $289 for a used pair.
  
 When I won my bid for a new pair of 5998 with green lettering, I had to pay $239. They are the most expensive tubes I've paid for but worth it as everyone who have tried it will attest.
  
 Except if you should try to get a pair of GEC 6AS7G. This new pair is nearly the price of Elise at $543. However, these days you hardly see a new pair of GEC 6AS7G. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-GEC-6AS7G-CV2523-A1834-Matched-pair-Tested-/172047766858?hash=item280ed8954a:g:SoEAAOSwT~9Whm18
  
 ps.. as for me I'll spend $543 on a nearly new Beyer T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Leaving shortly for a scenic 1.5 hours drive to get it. See yas later.


----------



## Oskari

"Tub" adapters & sunken sockets of an early Elise. Anybody tried this? How's the fit?


----------



## mordy

Hypnos 1 should have the answers since he got such an early production sample.


----------



## Lord Raven

The Tung Sol 5998 tubes paired with FDD20 are singing like I'm in a studio with real artists recording their music 

After this revelation I've decide to let go couple of my Chatham 6AS7G tubes with copper rods, I have 12 tubes in my inventory. I'm also letting go of the Mullard 6080WA and GE 6AS7GA, all with copper (aka Gold) rods 

Purpose in life is to aquire GEC 6AS7G next Hehe If Tung Sol 5998 can make me feel that I've received new ears then I'll empty my wallet and bank on GEC 6AS7G for sure. 

If anyone is interested, I'm just a PM away. No profiting, actual expenses only Hehe I can put it up on eBay but I am hoping Elise owners should benefit rather than Bottle Head and Woo Audio guys lol

Cheers to all the lucky ones!


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> "Tub" adapters & sunken sockets of an early Elise. Anybody tried this? How's the fit?


 
  
 Ah yes, Oskari...the mixed blessings of those sunken sockets!
  
 Haven't tried such adapters I'm afraid, as I adapt my own tubes so they can fit, lol! But unless the 'tubs' have _extra_ long pins - which I doubt! - you will need the extender/socket savers...as should have been provided with the amp to enable use of the wider 6080 base (interchangeable with 6SN7, as same pin-out). If they didn't come with the amp first off, I'm sure Lukasz will oblige...that's a shame, O...Aaahhh - didn't you mention GEC 6080s?...then you do in fact already have the extenders!? So you will need to get yourself another pair _straight away_, mon ami...


----------



## Oskari

oskari said:


> 6N1P is not bad at all. Quite punchy. Perhaps a little edgy (but it could be something else).


 
  
 Lorenz C3g. Better. Quite a bit better. Much sweeter and airier, but overall a tad light with the HD 600. (Not a big surprise there.)
  
 I'm not a basshead and I'm extremely allergic to harsh treble. I could live with this. Not perfect, but...


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Price is so expensive now. $289 for a used pair.
> 
> When I won my bid for a new pair of 5998 with green lettering, I had to pay $239. They are the most expensive tubes I've paid for but worth it as everyone who have tried it will attest.
> 
> ...




Look forward to reading your impressions of the T1 paired with the Elise.

Out of interest I wonder what the average age is of the T1 + Elise users are in this thread.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Ah yes, Oskari...the mixed blessings of those sunken sockets!
> 
> Haven't tried such adapters I'm afraid, as I adapt my own tubes so they can fit, lol! But unless the 'tubs' have _extra_ long pins - which I doubt! - you will need the extender/socket savers...as should have been provided with the amp to enable use of the wider 6080 base (interchangeable with 6SN7, as same pin-out). If they didn't come with the amp first off, I'm sure Lukasz will oblige...that's a shame, O...Aaahhh - didn't you mention GEC 6080s?...then you do in fact already have the extenders!? So you will need to get yourself another pair _straight away_, mon ami...


 
  
 Right you are! I do have a pair. [In some photos, the tubs look like they might fit in.] But, yes, I'll get another pair or two.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm so happy now. First listen on T1 with Fiio X5 and E12 portable player and amp...knocks me out !!!

Tell you more later. This is killer stuff.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I'm so happy now. First listen on T1 with Fiio X5 and E12 portable player and amp...knocks me out !!!
> 
> Tell you more later. This is killer stuff.


 
 I'm looking forward to it! I'm so excited now. Congratulations UT!


----------



## UntilThen

It's so good I've to stop by the roadside and listen again 

Looks like I'll never get home. Bass is amazing. ..seller told me the cable turns it into a different T1.

Who cares. this sounds so good now even without Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

I feel like driving with the headphone on but the traffic cops will surely book me


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I feel like driving with the headphone on but the traffic cops will surely book me


 
 I drove 3 hours (+ 3 hours home) to get my T1. Admired it all the way home. I was so excited. Then I got home and didn't have any 6.25mm to 3.5mm adapter...


----------



## jerick70

I'm finally getting some listening time today after the holidays.  Oh how I missed my Elise.  The sound stage is HUGE and has a 3D ambience that make you feel like you are right there in the room with Diana....  I'm listening with my LCD 2Fs with Chatham copper rods and the stock Tung-sol drivers with Diana Krall's Look of Love album.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> I drove 3 hours (+ 3 hours home) to get my T1. Admired it all the way home. I was so excited. Then I got home and didn't have any 6.25mm to 3.5mm adapter...


 
 I hate when that happens!  Takes the wind right out of your sails.  Time for a trip to the local electronics store.
  


untilthen said:


> It's so good I've to stop by the roadside and listen again
> 
> Looks like I'll never get home. Bass is amazing. ..seller told me the cable turns it into a different T1.
> 
> Who cares. this sounds so good now even without Elise.


 
 You are going to have to do a mini review of the T1.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I hate when that happens!  Takes the wind right out of your sails.  Time for a trip to the local electronics store.
> 
> You are going to have to do a mini review of the T1.


 
 When I got home there was only 2 hours remaining before we left for our vacation in Italy (lovely place). I rushed to the nearest electronics store (½ an hour drive). Fortunately I made it, and enjoyed the T1's in Italy. 
  
 UT! What's taking you so long! You have to upload a picture of the beast.


----------



## UntilThen

I just got almost home but need to stop for lunch. I'm dying of hunger. No time for breakfast. This hobby is killing me


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I just got almost home but need to stop for lunch. I'm dying of hunger. No time for breakfast. This hobby is killing me


 

 Ah who needs to eat when you have head-fi.  LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok 2 pictures while I sit down for a good listen with Elise+FDD20+5998


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oh yes...the 5998/FDD20 and Beyers are going to get along, just fine!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Ok 2 pictures while I sit down for a good listen with Elise+FDD20+5998


 
 Beautiful headphones.  I might buy a pair.  I've not heard them, I always hate buying blind.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to both HE560 and T1 now ...doing some quick A/B....initial impressions...


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Beautiful headphones.  I might buy a pair.  I've not heard them, I always hate buying blind.


 

 Before I give present some impressions, I can tell you that you will be happy with either HE560 or T1. Both are distinctly different from your LCD2.2. The T1 more so. They will partner your LCD2.2 well. Very different sound signature. Both have astonishing clarity and details.


----------



## bazelio

supersonic395 said:


> Out of interest I wonder what the average age is of the T1 + Elise users are in this thread.


 
  
  
 I'm setting the over/under at 25 on that one.


----------



## Suuup

bazelio said:


> I'm setting the over/under at 25 on that one.


 
 Over. By quite a bit I think.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Over. By quite a bit I think.




Easy there, Suuup


----------



## UntilThen

Where did xulingmrs hide the EL3N and C3G adapters?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Easy there, Suuup


 
 It's me, @hypnos1 and @jerick70 , correct? I'd put the over/under at, at least, 35? 
  
 Edit: Oh yea, I forgot one. @UntilThen 
 Edit 2: Jerick doesn't have the T1? I'm confusing him with someone else maybe..


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Before I give present some impressions, I can tell you that you will be happy with either HE560 or T1. Both are distinctly different from your LCD2.2. The T1 more so. They will partner your LCD2.2 well. Very different sound signature. Both have astonishing clarity and details.


 

 I recently sold my HE-560.  How are the T1s different from the 560s?


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> It's me, @hypnos1 and @jerick70 , correct? I'd put the over/under at, at least, 35?
> 
> Edit: Oh yea, I forgot one. @UntilThen


 

 I'm 45 so factor that into the equation.  I'm guessing 35 is pretty close to actual average.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> I'm 45 so factor that into the equation.  I'm guessing 35 is pretty close to actual average.


 
 Do you have T1?


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Do you have T1?


 

 No not yet.  There is a nice pair on Ebay that I'm eyeing.  So maybe soon.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> No not yet.  There is a nice pair on Ebay that I'm eyeing.  So maybe soon.


 
 Do it! 
  
 Is it @CITIZENLIN I'm thinking of? Does he have the T1? I think it is.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Do it!
> 
> Is it @CITIZENLIN I'm thinking of? Does he have the T1? I think it is.


 

 I'm contemplating it very seriously.


----------



## jerick70

Do any of you like The Cure?  Here is a perfect song for Elise owners:


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Where did xulingmrs hide the EL3N and C3G adapters?


 
 xulingmrs is out until the 5th.  I think that's why nothing is showing up in the store.


----------



## UntilThen

Here are some quick notes. I needed more time and I do intend to spend more time with both headphones to be able to do a proper comparison.
  
 These are relative to each other. I'll have to expand on each category more later. I also need to listen to all genres with both HPs.
  

 T1HE560Soundstagey (wider and deeper) Bass(appears deeper)y (mid bass more pronounced)Midrangey (very good)y (very good)Trebley (superb) ClarityyyDetailsyyInstruments separationy (more spread out) imagingyySpeedyyFull bodyyy (a bit more)MusicalityyyHeadband Comforty (very good) (Tight)Efficiencyy (1.5 notches lower) Light weighty Forwardness y (mid range projected more forward)Linearyy
  
  
 These 2 are definitely not alike yet very similar. I know that sounds contradictory. *Both sound amazing with Elise*. If you have to choose, it's a tough choice. However if you already have a planar magnetic, then I feel you should go for the T1 and vice versa.
  
 T1 because of the wider and deeper soundstage, notes and instruments are more spread out. Having been used to HE560, it took me a while to get adjusted to this but once I get use to this spaciousness, I find it extremely enjoyable. Soundstage is the first thing I notice when I strapped on the T1. Bass on T1 though marginally less than HE560, appears more natural and I love the impact. I can't quite grasped this yet. I need more time. Vocals are extremely good with both HPs. T1's treble and high frequencies are unparalleled. This is Beyer's signature trademark and which I'm starting to love. Details galore at the top end.
  
 PS I can wear T1 the whole day and not feel a thing. It is extremely comfortable. I'm surprise the ear cups go over my ears completely without touching my ears. The HE560 in comparison is heavier and the tight clamp gets to you after a few hours.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Here are some quick notes. I needed more time and I do intend to spend more time with both headphones to be able to do a proper comparison.
> 
> These are relative to each other. I'll have to expand on each category more later. I also need to listen to all genres with both HPs.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for the comparison UT.  The T1 is sounding really interesting. 
  
 On that note, has anyone listened to the HD800 and Elise?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Here are some quick notes. I needed more time and I do intend to spend more time with both headphones to be able to do a proper comparison.
> 
> These are relative to each other. I'll have to expand on each category more later. I also need to listen to all genres with both HPs.
> 
> ...


 
 Very good analysis UT! Without having heard the HE560, I'd have guessed the same as you've found (from reading about them). Is the HE560 actually more efficient than the T1? That surprises me.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I'm contemplating it very seriously.


 

 Do it Jerick. You won't regret it. Will pair very well with your LCD2.2   Only HP worth considering besides T1 is the HD800 for you.
  
 You'll have 2 extremes paired with your LCD2.2. Besides it WILL be a lot lighter.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Very good analysis UT! Without having heard the HE560, I'd have guessed the same as you've found (from reading about them). Is the HE560 actually more efficient than the T1? That surprises me.


 

 Oh no no.. I mean with the T1, your volume knob is 1.5 notch lower. So T1 more efficient than HE560 for sure.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Do it Jerick. You won't regret it. Will pair very well with your LCD2.2   Only HP worth considering besides T1 is the HD800 for you.
> 
> You'll have 2 extremes paired with your LCD2.2. Besides it WILL be a lot lighter.


 

 With the suspension strap on my LCD 2 they don't seems as heavy.  I can wear them all day without an issue.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> With the suspension strap on my LCD 2 they don't seems as heavy.  I can wear them all day without an issue.


 

 I know you can but try on a T1 and you will be shocked at the comfort difference. 
  
 I really like the T1's soundstage. I think only the HD800 can best it.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh no no.. I mean with the T1, your volume knob is 1.5 notch lower. So T1 more efficient than HE560 for sure.


 
 Ah, that makes more sense. 
  


jerick70 said:


> With the suspension strap on my LCD 2 they don't seems as heavy.  I can wear them all day without an issue.


 
 Do you ever feel like your headphones disappear from your head? The T1's do (for me atleast). They are truly marvelous. 
  


untilthen said:


> I know you can but try on a T1 and you will be shocked at the comfort difference.
> 
> I really like the T1's soundstage. I think only the HD800 can best it.


 
 Soundstage is very impressive, yes. It is one of the things that won me over big time.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup, the seller told me that after he got a pro to install the Litz 7N OCC copper cable, he find it to be a different headphone sonically. He says the bass is tightened, midrange sweeter and treble more extended and better...I told him how can the treble be anymore extended .. he says it is...
  
 I have not heard the original T1 but this T1 with the OCC cable sounds real good.
  
 Oh he says soundstage opens up lol.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup, the seller told me that after he got a pro to install the Litz 7N OCC copper cable, he find it to be a different headphone sonically. He says the bass is tightened, midrange sweeter and treble more extended and better...I told him how can the treble be anymore extended .. he says it is...
> 
> I have not heard the original T1 but this T1 with the OCC cable sounds real good.


 
 Hmm. It's a tough one, really. I don't know if I believe in cables. Never tried a 'high-end' cable. Haven't really given it much thought.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Suuup, the seller told me that after he got a pro to install the Litz 7N OCC copper cable, he find it to be a different headphone sonically. He says the bass is tightened, midrange sweeter and treble more extended and better...I told him how can the treble be anymore extended .. he says it is...
> 
> I have not heard the original T1 but this T1 with the OCC cable sounds real good.
> 
> Oh he says soundstage opens up lol.


 
  
  


suuup said:


> Hmm. It's a tough one, really. I don't know if I believe in cables. Never tried a 'high-end' cable. Haven't really given it much thought.


 

 I've had varied success with using aftermarket cables.  I never pay the huge markup on Toxic, Moon Audio, and the like.  I purchase from custom cable makes on Ebay.  Save big for the exact same cable.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  This is for you. I'm listening to Wars of the World now with T1 and Elise+FDD20+5998. This is now a different experience from using the HE560. I have an expanded soundstage so there seems to be more Martians 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I know why you go goo goo ga ga. This is haunting and goosebumps aplenty. So enjoyable. I think I will play all my songs again with the T1. I'm indeed hearing songs differently now.
  
 I've not finished my evaluation but I can give my stamp of approval on the T1 now. Without question a best pairing on Elise. 
  
 Only problem is I'll miss the HD800 not heeding a friend's advice. Perhaps in a year's time.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Hmm. It's a tough one, really. I don't know if I believe in cables. Never tried a 'high-end' cable. Haven't really given it much thought.


 

 Oh the mod T1 is much lighter now because the cable is lighter and shorter. Extremely light HP now.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Oh the mod T1 is much lighter now because the cable is lighter and shorter. Extremely light HP now.


 
 Oh, but that wouldn't make much of an impact on the weight, would it? Most of my cable is lying on my table, so it don't increase the weight the headphones by much. I have something like 30-40 cm of cable hanging from the headphones, which isn't much.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Thank you for the comparison UT.  The T1 is sounding really interesting.
> 
> On that note, has anyone listened to the HD800 and Elise?


 

 Agnostic has a front page review and he use HD800 with Elise. Seems to love it.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Oh, but that wouldn't make much of an impact on the weight, would it? Most of my cable is lying on my table, so it don't increase the weight the headphones by much. I have something like 30-40 cm of cable hanging from the headphones, which isn't much.


 

 In that case the weight of the cable wouldn't make much difference but a shorter cable is ideal if you sit close to the source. With my HD650, I've to bundle the cable together all the time or my chair might run over it. 
  
 Surprisingly the T1 after market cable looks similar to the HE560 cable. Both use identical factory 6.3mm jack. NEUTRIK.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> In that case the weight of the cable wouldn't make much difference but a shorter cable is ideal if you sit close to the source. With my HD650, I've to bundle the cable together all the time or my chair might run over it.
> 
> Surprisingly the T1 after market cable looks similar to the HE560 cable. Both use identical factory 6.3mm jack. NEUTRIK.



That is most certainly true. I like that I'm able to get out of my chair and still wear my headphones though. It makes it easier when I want to do a little dance. 

I noticed the same thing regarding the plug from your pictures. At first I thought you'd already bought the T1! I was confused for a minute or two.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> That is most certainly true. I like that I'm able to get out of my chair and still wear my headphones though. It makes it easier when I want to do a little dance.
> 
> I noticed the same thing regarding the plug from your pictures. At first I thought you'd already bought the T1! I was confused for a minute or two.


 

 YOU DON'T DANCE WITH A HEADPHONE ON YOUR HEAD ! 
  
 Ask Jerick that...especially with the LCD2.2 hahaha.
  
 OMG the Wall album by Pink Floyd sounds so good now with T1. Volume at 11 and I'm bobbing my head real fast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wow bass so nice on this album. Hmmm left and right channel separation is so good !!! Amazing.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> YOU DON'T DANCE WITH A HEADPHONE ON YOUR HEAD !
> 
> Ask Jerick that...especially with the LCD2.2 hahaha.



Hahahaha, of course I do. Close the door, roll down the curtains, turn on Elise, and play some rock n roll! AND DANCE.


----------



## UntilThen

Suuup I'm hearing what you are hearing now...well almost.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Suuup I'm hearing what you are hearing now...well almost.



I just need a Nad1050. Hmm, I wonder how much it costs in Denmark.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I just need a Nad1050. Hmm, I wonder how much it costs in Denmark.


 

 This is good too. 
  
 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/94048-audiolab-m-dac/


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> This is good too.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/94048-audiolab-m-dac/



Oh, but it would be fun if we both had the exact same setup. 
Anyways, I've been eyeing the Audio GD NFB-11. I'll be refunding my 1770's, so I'll be looking for new gear. Either another pair of closed headphones or a new DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I think it will be a sleepless few nights again. Sound is so good now with T1 and Elise+FDD20+5998. I need to roll in 2 ECC31 and try out. Oh boy, this is like starting all over again. So much fun.
  
 This bass is different but very addictive and engaging. T1 seems to be good with all genres.
  
 With price lower now for T1 original it's a no brainer buying this over the Gen 2. Elise plus tubes provides all the bass needed and more.
  
 Sadly my HD650 gets more and more redundant.
  
 Wow even Youtube sounds good with T1 lol.
  
 I'm in love with this sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@Lorspeaker you're right. T1 is one of the better head-fi buys. It's worth travelling more than 200kms in heavy rain for this headphone.
  
 Aluminium case looks expensive.  Needs a handle then you can stroll into office carrying that and look important.


----------



## UntilThen

Has anyone else got their EL3N's adapters yet? Mine still not here what a bummer. Looks like it needs the full 25 working days for me.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Purpose in life is to aquire GEC 6AS7G next Hehe If Tung Sol 5998 can make me feel that I've received new ears then I'll empty my wallet and bank on GEC 6AS7G for sure.





>


 
 Your purpose is to empty your wallet and buy a pair of GEC 6AS7G for me. Besides that you've to buy yourself a T1. I repeat, buy yourself a T1. It's better than GEC 6AS7G. After you buy the T1, sell the HD600 lol.
  
 Wow this female vocalist sounds so good.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Has anyone else got their EL3N's adapters yet? Mine still not here what a bummer. Looks like it needs the full 25 working days for me.


 
 Not yet, but I only ordered them about ten minutes ago.  Sounds like I'm in for a wait.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Not yet, but I only ordered them about ten minutes ago.  Sounds like I'm in for a wait.


 

 It just came back on again. Are you in US, puffmtd?
  
@jerick70  EL3N adapters are back on eBay and discounted.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> It just came back on again. Are you in US, puffmtd?
> 
> @jerick70  EL3N adapters are back on eBay and discounted.


 

 Yes.  Having some trouble sleeping so I thought I would listen to some music for awhile.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Yes.  Having some trouble sleeping so I thought I would listen to some music for awhile.


 

 US customers take 10 working days ; elsewhere 15 to 25 working days for adapters delivery from xulingmrs.
  
 What's your favourite Headphone with Elise and how is she coming along?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Lorenz C3g. Better. Quite a bit better. Much sweeter and airier, but overall a tad light with the HD 600. (Not a big surprise there.)
> 
> I'm not a basshead and I'm extremely allergic to harsh treble. I could live with this. Not perfect, but...


 

 Get a pair of EL3N and adapters. Will wake up the HD600. Have a PM coming your way.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Wow I think it will be a sleepless few nights again. Sound is so good now with T1 and Elise+FDD20+5998. I need to roll in 2 ECC31 and try out. Oh boy, this is like starting all over again. So much fun.
> 
> This bass is different but very addictive and engaging. T1 seems to be good with all genres.
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW!!, UT...you've really made my day, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(er, actually, not _quite..._not until you get those flamin' adapters!...this really isn't fair, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...on *me!!!*








 - never mind that row boat, M...get your flippers on, man!!!).
  
 Anyway, it's great you like them, after all the hype...(but I knew you would!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And yes, I'm quite sure now the prices of the Gen1 are down, they must be the bargain of the Century...speaking of which, how on Earth did you manage to get those mint cans _*with*_ that expensive cable for that price...you lucky b*******!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....WELL DONE!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You found the mids a bit behind the 560s?..._*Just you wait...*_that will all be remedied, *and more!*, when(?) you get those EL3Ns installed..._*guaranteed!!*_
  


jerick70 said:


> I'm finally getting some listening time today after the holidays.  *Oh how I missed my Elise.*  The sound stage is HUGE and has a 3D ambience that make you feel like you are right there in the room with Diana....  I'm listening with my LCD 2Fs with Chatham copper rods and the stock Tung-sol drivers with Diana Krall's Look of Love album.


 
 Well, j70....that's called _*total addiction, lol!!*_...join the rest of us poor, lost souls! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


oskari said:


> Lorenz C3g. Better. Quite a bit better. Much sweeter and airier, but overall a tad light with the HD 600. (Not a big surprise there.)
> 
> I'm not a basshead and I'm extremely allergic to harsh treble. I could live with this. Not perfect, but...


 
  
 Yo Oskari, the C3g sound sure is nice but yes, a tad light.
  
 Now I too am no basshead, and always looked to other aspects of sound reproduction in preference...*BUT*...after hearing what the EL3Ns do to Elise (+ T1s!), I now realise just how wrong I've been all these years. When handled *properly*, along with _*equally*_ well-handled mids and treble (_no_ harshness!)., the end result is absolutely mind-blowing!...you _can_ handle mind-blowing, O, I assume??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Well, as I have said (too!) many times before..._*just you wait!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> US customers take 10 working days ; elsewhere 15 to 25 working days for adapters delivery from xulingmrs.
> 
> What's your favourite Headphone with Elise and how is she coming along?


 

 So far I'm splitting time with the Grado GH1 and the Fostex for the most part.  The HD650 gets thrown in the mix to change things up.  The Grado seems to really take to the Elise though.  Things are starting to open up a tad and the separation seems to be getting better.
 I'm looking forward to the tubes and adapters getting here so I can start playing with those.  I made an offer for some 5998's on Ebay last night and it was accepted so I was thrilled about that.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Your purpose is to empty your wallet and buy a pair of GEC 6AS7G for me. Besides that you've to buy yourself a T1. I repeat, buy yourself a T1. It's better than GEC 6AS7G. After you buy the T1, sell the HD600 lol.
> 
> Wow this female vocalist sounds so good.


 
 I noticed the comment about female vocalists  I think I need a pair of T1s now, but I think I have reached my end game with HD600. Female vocalists already sound alive, up close and personal 
  
 Hehe Got it, I am getting two pair of GEC 6AS7G now  The last pair you posted says, does not ship, I read further and it said, 'excludes Saudi Arabia'. Guess I am going to ask H1 for his pair  LOL


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> So far I'm splitting time with the Grado GH1 and the Fostex for the most part.  The HD650 gets thrown in the mix to change things up.  The Grado seems to really take to the Elise though.  Things are starting to open up a tad and the separation seems to be getting better.
> I'm looking forward to the tubes and adapters getting here so I can start playing with those.  I made an offer for some 5998's on Ebay last night and it was accepted so I was thrilled about that.


 

 Well first of all, congrats on being successful with 5998 purchase. You're going to absolutely love it. Together with EL3N or C3G, you're in for a thrilling time.
  
 You're the 1st Elise owner to share about Grado and Fostex with Elise. I think your experience will benefit others with Grados contemplating a tube amp. Well done !!!


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> I noticed the comment about female vocalists  I think I need a pair of T1s now, but I think I have reached my end game with HD600. Female vocalists already sound alive, up close and personal
> 
> Hehe Got it, I am getting two pair of GEC 6AS7G now  The last pair you posted says, does not ship, I read further and it said, 'excludes Saudi Arabia'. Guess I am going to ask H1 for his pair  LOL


 
  
 "End game with HD600s"?, LR..._*no way!!*_..._*get them there T1s, lol!*_...
  
 And as for my GECs?...heh heh, don't they say _everyone_ is capable of murder?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 GOOD LUCK in your hunt, though...


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> "End game with HD600s"?, LR..._*no way!!*_..._*get them there T1s, lol!*_...
> 
> And as for my GECs?...heh heh, don't they say _everyone_ is capable of murder?!!
> 
> ...


 
 If I go any higher in the HP department, this might make me want to give up my car audio and I really don't want to do that. I am already almost so close to what I have achieved in my car  Bear in mind that I have never ever heard an open back HPs or any real HPs in my life, this is why I said HD600s are my end game LOL UT got me buying HD600, only half a month with them and now he wants me to buy T1, I think I should murder him first haha
  
 GEC 6AS7G is 550 USD, I think I need to sell all my tube stash to own a pair. No one is getting lucky on GEC 6AS7G I suppose, these are super rare now.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I noticed the comment about female vocalists  I think I need a pair of T1s now, but I think I have reached my end game with HD600. Female vocalists already sound alive, up close and personal
> 
> Hehe Got it, I am getting two pair of GEC 6AS7G now  The last pair you posted says, does not ship, I read further and it said, 'excludes Saudi Arabia'. Guess I am going to ask H1 for his pair  LOL


 

 H1 beats me to it but I feel I must add something here too. Keep listening to the HD600 but don't waste time putting off the T1. Get the 1st Gen while prices are plunging. Incidentally the 1st Gen suits Elise better IMO. I know because I've just the tubes to boost the T1 to perfection. 
  
 It would be a shame to stop at HD600, especially when the T1 price is hovering around $600 on nearly new units. T1 and HD600 will cover all your base. So get those 2 headphones then call it a day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Once you hear the T1 with Elise, you'll be hugging a tree. GEC 6AS7G is less impt. Get the T1 first.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> You found the mids a bit behind the 560s?..._*Just you wait...*_that will all be remedied, *and more!*, when(?) you get those EL3Ns installed..._*guaranteed!!*_


 
 That's not a bad thing as the HE560 mid is outstanding. T1 is just a fraction behind but I'm getting used to the T1 sound gradually and this might change. T1 feels very linear across the FR with Elise+FDD20+5998. I need to qualify the last part. The soundstage is vast and what you get is a very thrilling sound where the whole FR hits you in the right proportion. It's an amazing treat to the ears. The bass is very astonishing. If I have to A/B with HE560, the T1 is a tad less but yet when I listen on it's own, I find the bass just right in proportion to the mids and treble. This is where I find the bass so enjoyable. It also sounded more natural to my ears. Lastly the comfort. This is important as I listen with headphone for many hours. With the T1, I forget they are on my head.
  
 I'm going to spend a week at least getting to know these 2 back to back before I do a review.


----------



## UntilThen

LR, read this review. The reviewer has the HD600 and the T1. For good reasons. So my recommendations of the HD600 for you is correct. So is my recommendation of the T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/742673/comparison-review-a-tale-of-two-flagships-t1-vs-hd800
  
 ps I need to recommend the reviewer an Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> That's not a bad thing as the HE560 mid is outstanding. T1 is just a fraction behind but I'm getting used to the T1 sound gradually and this might change. T1 feels very linear across the FR with Elise+FDD20+5998. I need to qualify the last part. The soundstage is vast and what you get is a very thrilling sound where the whole FR hits you in the right proportion. It's an amazing treat to the ears. The bass is very astonishing. If I have to A/B with HE560, the T1 is a tad less but yet when I listen on it's own, I find the bass just right in proportion to the mids and treble. This is where I find the bass so enjoyable. It also sounded more natural to my ears. Lastly the comfort. This is important as I listen with headphone for many hours. With the T1, I forget they are on my head.
> 
> I'm going to spend a week at least getting to know these 2 back to back before I do a review.


 
  
 Hey UT...you've already got these cans pretty well covered (and very quickly, I might add!), but yes, it does indeed take a fair while to really "get" a new signature sound. However, I think you've "got" them to a "T"....sorry for the pun.. (actually, that's not a bad one, eh?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

Oh, by the way @supersonic395, this is one (sprightly?!) 65yr old speaking...methinks we T1 owners cover a fairly wide age range, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(Such a leading/loaded question of yours!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but we don't mind! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

I feel that GEC 6AS7G at the asking price of $550 is absurd. 5998 is half the price and probably more than half the bliss. It's different flavours. If you have to spend $550 for the GEC then I rather you buy the T1. The changes will be more dramatic.
  
 Elise deserves a TOTL headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

My volume is only between 9 and 10 o'clock on Elise with the T1. At 11 it's LOUD. T1 is efficient even though it's 600 ohms. Elise control of the T1 is effortless. 
  
 WOW at 11, almost burst my eardrums


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I'm contemplating it very seriously.


 

@jerick70  be serious and buy it. Give your LCD2.2 a rest. Feel the need for speed because the T1 will make your LCD2.2 sound like a tortoise. You might also start to love sopranos.
  
 This is terrible. I'm loving it more and more with each passing hour. T1 is nowhere like the DT880. So vastly more superior.
  
 I'm back to 2031 and 5998 for the last 2 hours.


----------



## aqsw

Should be receiving my T1s today or tomorrow. Im afraid I really screwed up the over/ under. Bet OVER.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Should be receiving my T1s today or tomorrow. Im afraid I really screwed up the over/ under. Bet OVER.


 

 Congrats !!! So your Elise is ok with stock drivers and 5998? If that's the case, your T1 should sound awesome with those tubes.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Congrats !!! So your Elise is ok with stock drivers and 5998? If that's the case, your T1 should sound awesome with those tubes.




Im hoping the T1 will allow me to use my st shaped drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Im hoping the T1 will allow me to use my st shaped drivers.


 

 Yes try it. If it doesn't work I really want you to talk to Lukasz. ECC31 with adapters should work without problems in Elise. So many of us use it without hum. Same with Mazda 6N7G.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I noticed the comment about female vocalists  I think I need a pair of T1s now, but I think I have reached my end game with HD600. Female vocalists already sound alive, up close and personal
> 
> Hehe Got it, I am getting two pair of GEC 6AS7G now  The last pair you posted says, does not ship, I read further and it said, 'excludes Saudi Arabia'. Guess I am going to ask H1 for his pair  LOL




Wait until you get the EL3N's running, LR, you will like your Senn's even MORE. 

The EL3N's like my Senn's way more than my Beyers. The FDD20's like the Beyers' more...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @jerick70  be serious and buy it. Give your LCD2.2 a rest. Feel the need for speed because the T1 will make your LCD2.2 sound like a tortoise. You might also start to love sopranos.
> 
> *This is terrible. I'm loving it more and more with each passing hour.* T1 is nowhere like the DT880. So vastly more superior.
> 
> I'm back to 2031 and 5998 for the last 2 hours.


 
  
 Oh dear, UT...looks like I'd better stop getting ecstatic about things - with the collection so far, I could just be steering you to bankruptcy, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(but just be sure to salt away your Elise...plus tubes, of course!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Anyway, _terrible_ is _*good**!!!*_...ENJOY!...


----------



## supersonic395

hypnos1 said:


> Oh, by the way @supersonic395
> , this is one (sprightly?!) 65yr old speaking...methinks we T1 owners cover a fairly wide age range, lol... ...(Such a leading/loaded question of yours!! :wink_face: :bigsmile_face: ...but we don't mind!  ...). CHEERS!


 

I was just interested in the age range as no one I know cares about superb audio quality.

I'm 27 btw


----------



## Lord Raven

UT, first HPs I got were Focals and those were like 275 USD. Never ever thought I would spend this much on a pair of phones. Then came HD600, spent more than 350 USD and sold my Focals :O LOL Now you want me to spend another 600 USD on a pair of used HPs. I must be crazy to spend that amount again on the phone 
  
 Yes, you made a point about GEC 6AS7G. A TOTL will give me greater improvement in SQ but I don't have funds for both atm  I am really glad that HD600 happened to me, before I was listening to a very crappy HPs.
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> H1 beats me to it but I feel I must add something here too. Keep listening to the HD600 but don't waste time putting off the T1. Get the 1st Gen while prices are plunging. Incidentally the 1st Gen suits Elise better IMO. I know because I've just the tubes to boost the T1 to perfection.
> 
> It would be a shame to stop at HD600, especially when the T1 price is hovering around $600 on nearly new units. T1 and HD600 will cover all your base. So get those 2 headphones then call it a day.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Let me read this review, but I am not getting the T1 any sooner 
  
 Haha do so, he might sell HD600 to get Elise.


untilthen said:


> LR, read this review. The reviewer has the HD600 and the T1. For good reasons. So my recommendations of the HD600 for you is correct. So is my recommendation of the T1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  I think the same, the guy is Mister-X I know him, sells at high prices, maybe the stuff just came out of the factory  Who will be the lucky one to buy from him this time?


untilthen said:


> I feel that GEC 6AS7G at the asking price of $550 is absurd. 5998 is half the price and probably more than half the bliss. It's different flavours. If you have to spend $550 for the GEC then I rather you buy the T1. The changes will be more dramatic.
> 
> Elise deserves a TOTL headphone.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi JV,
  
 You just make me curious and I am so tempted to try the EL3N but I will not be able to do that until February arrives. The adapters are no where near in my sight, and I am going to visit UT in mid January LOL Might try at his place hehe..
  
 I think you also want me to buy Beyer for FDD20s and Senns for the EL3Ns  I am going mad crazy now, I might go bankrupt... hehe!!!
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Wait until you get the EL3N's running, LR, you will like your Senn's even MORE.
> 
> The EL3N's like my Senn's way more than my Beyers. The FDD20's like the Beyers' more...


----------



## Lorspeaker

post #217
  
 dedicate this song to all the olderfolks in here


----------



## Lord Raven

Listening to her and I am in total awe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Has anyone listened to this album?
  
 I got a 24/96 SQ, and it sounds marvelous. Her voice is so sweet, I fell in love with her on the very first listen.
  
 Glorious sound through a Elise>FDD20>5998 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These FDD20s have made all other tubes in my stash catch dust in the drawer LOL
  
 Who wants to have my Mullard, Mazda, Visseaux, Fiver 6N7G tubes? I am selling and buying more FDD20s for certain... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Dedicated to all the lucky ones, cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> I was just interested in the age range as no one I know cares about superb audio quality.
> 
> I'm 27 btw


 
  
 Ah, s395...so it looks like us old'uns are useful for _something_, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And you are to be praised for appreciating/understanding good sound (and taking the necessary time & effort to get there..._well done!!_). I'm sure we are all eager to hear your future findings...soon, hopefully! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!
  


lord raven said:


> Listening to her and I am in total awe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey LR...please, *please* try the EL3Ns before getting more FDD20s (spoken by the one who brought this fabulous blue-coloured tube to our ears, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...the ELs leave the 20s _*in the dust!!!*_








.


----------



## hypnos1

Sorry guys, but I have to say one more thing about the EL3N...I previously thought this tube wouldn't need as long as the FDD20 to reach its best..._*WRONG!!!*_
  
 With well over 60hrs on them, _*they're*_ _*still getting even better!*_ This is beginning to go _*beyond*_ crazy, lol!. They are now so far ahead of anything that's gone before, it's _almost_ a joke!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So, once again I must repeat...*please* give them the *long* burn-in, even though they sound great from the off.
  
 That's all..._for now!_


----------



## mordy

With all the talk about new headphones I also got a new pair.
  
 How about 85% of the sound of the $500 headphones for one hundred times LESS????
  
 Presenting the VE Monk:
  




  
 If you travel with a portable player and don't like to lug along your expensive and large headphones, this is the answer! These earbuds cost $5 + $3 shipping.
  
  
  
 Received my pair yesterday, plugged it into my iPhone and WOW! Won't bother you you with a review; just read the the recent posts of UT and hypnos1 about headphones...lol
  
 OK, they are not T1s, but they are the best sounding earbuds I have heard, and at this price they are phenomenal! Great airy soundstage, great highs and mids, fantastic bass for earbuds; very good detail.
  
  
 Check out what others and  Lorspeaker says about them:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-a-5-earbud-that-seriously-deserves-a-place-here
  
 For this price you cannot go wrong and you will be in for a big surprise!
  
 BTW, I am 69 and going on 70. Think of it - some 60 years of  listening to music....


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I was just interested in the age range as no one I know cares about superb audio quality.
> 
> I'm 27 btw


 
 I was a young 59 when I started in head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now 2 solid months later with Elise, I'll be 60 in April and the T1 is supposed to be that birthday present. I get to try it first....get used to the sound signature you know...
  
 27 so young. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's one year older than my son and he bought the HE560 and since his interest comes and goes I get to use it instead. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But he pinch one of my 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Let me read this review, but I am not getting the T1 any sooner


 
 Take your time with this hobby LR. There's no rush. Head-Fi isn't leaving planet earth anytime soon. Agreed that if you've just started to sample the HD600, you're indeed in for a very good time. Enjoy !!!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I was a young 59 when I started in head-fi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Happy almost bday!  I'm glad you are enjoying your birthday present!  What day in April is your birthday?  My bday is April 30th.
  
 LOL.  My son does similar thing but with cell phones.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> With all the talk about new headphones I also got a new pair.
> 
> How about 85% of the sound of the $500 headphones for one hundred times LESS????
> 
> Presenting the VE Monk:


 
 85% ??? Serious ??? Maybe I should get one for my daughter.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Happy almost bday!  I'm glad you are enjoying your birthday present!  What day in April is your birthday?  My bday is April 30th.
> 
> LOL.  My son does similar thing but with cell phones.


 

 Hey we're too alike lol. Mine's 5th.....fortunately it's not the 1st LOL


----------



## UntilThen

@Suuup this Chord Mojo might be good for you but the Massdrop deal doesn't look that sweet. It's a great portable DAC though. Look at the specs.
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/chord-mojo-portable-dac-amp?referer=92MGH6&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20D%20Product%20Announcement%202016-01-05&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20%5BD%5D
  
 Oh the Fivre 6N7G brown base and 5998 sounds so good with the T1. Amazing. I'm hearing your sound now Suuup.


----------



## UntilThen

@jerick70  did you see my message about the EL3N adapters being available now on eBay? Go ahead and order. 10 working days for you.
  
 You must try and get a pair of 5998. It will rock your LCD2.2 even more.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Hey we're too alike lol. Mine's 5th.....fortunately it's not the 1st LOL


 

 Yeah small world.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The 1st would be a kicker.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> @jerick70  did you see my message about the EL3N adapters being available now on eBay? Go ahead and order. 10 working days for you.
> 
> You must try and get a pair of 5998. It will rock your LCD2.2 even more.


 

 I did.  I'm going to get them later today.


----------



## aqsw

Ordered my el3n adapters this morning. I hope these work!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Ordered my el3n adapters this morning. I hope these work!!!!


 

 I'm sure they will lol. 
  
 Do you have a portable source? Like a iPod or Fiio X1 or x3 or x5 player? 
  
 I was wondering if you connect that portable source direct to Elise and then listen to your headphone direct. Trying to keep your setup simple and just want to check if that will enable you to use your st shaped drivers and adapters without hum. I know it works ok for your LC but try a simple setup and see what happens.
  
 I always believe when you encounter any hum problems or feedback, then try a really simple setup to eliminate any possible ground loop.


----------



## UntilThen

@nojdrof  I think you were asking about articles on vacuum tubes. Here's one but with a lot of maths. It's a good read though as it talks about triodes, pentode, tetrode, 6n7, etc.
  
 http://www.john-a-harper.com/tubes201/


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I'm sure they will lol.
> 
> Do you have a portable source? Like a iPod or Fiio X1 or x3 or x5 player?
> 
> ...


 
 I'm using a very simple setup right now. tablet >Bluetooth receiver >DAC>Elise. I don't get hum anymore since I grounded my my FDD20s, I get distortion. Two different problems. Although the distortion may be feedback.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm using a very simple setup right now. tablet >Bluetooth receiver >DAC>Elise. I don't get hum anymore since I grounded my my FDD20s, I get distortion. Two different problems. Although the distortion may be feedback.


 

 Yes as an experiment let's keep it really simple. Forget the 12V FDD20. Just use the Mazda 6N7G and adapters in this setup:-
  
 portable source > Elise > headphone.   Here your only AC is Elise. Try this and see if your distortion disappears. 
  
 I can use a Fiio X5 as input to Elise with a 3.5 to 2 RCAs cable. So...
  
 Fiio X5 > Elise > T1   --------> this is as simple as it gets. If you still get distortion then it's one of 3 things. Elise is faulty or the tubes or adapters. Do this away from your other audio setup. In an isolated spot.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey even dogs can appreciate music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Buy your Fido a headphone.
  
 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-05/concert-for-dogs-held-in-times-square/7069698


----------



## supersonic395

Cheers to all for sharing their current years on the planet 
  
 I always find it interesting how people of such different age ranges have a focused appreciation of superb audio quality.
  
 Anyhow, back to the music!
  
 P.S. For those on the fence re T1 or T1.2, can I just say that the T1.2 is God-Tier...can't wait to amp it with the Elise!


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like we're all very happy with the T1 whether it's version 1 or 2. The beauty of Elise is the range of tubes available to tune it anyway you want. From dark warm to rosy warm to sunshine bright. Take your pick. 
  
 Supersonic you're up for a gorgeous 2016 with head-fi I can assure you that.
  
 Currently, the T1 and HE560 has to be the smartest headphone purchase out there. Forget about headphones of the month or exotic earbuds. Get either of these 2 (bargains) with Elise and you ain't gonna need to upgrade anymore unless you have permanent upgradetitis. 
  
 Oh I can assure you the older you get the more you appreciate audio quality. So keep your gear well to last a lifetime.


----------



## supersonic395

@UntilThen
  
 100% agree!
  
 As I do not plan to upgrade/replace any audio equipment for a long time, I wanted to invest in (what I think) is the best quality (for the price) and avoid the long upgrade path.

 As a fan of the Beyer sound, the T1(.2) was always going to be *it* along with a tube amp, and after much research it seems the quality and rolling possibilities of the Elise was a no brainer!
  
 Now I'm just getting my music all sorted (that's approx 1800 CDs (yes all bought) that need 16bit/44khz flac archiving and the baseline for all audio going forward.)).
  
 Glad to leave mp3 in the past too (except where's there's no other options  )
  
 Also, in theory, would it be possible to hook the optical out of a blu ray player to a DAC and then use rca to the Elise, to the T1?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> @Suuup this Chord Mojo might be good for you but the Massdrop deal doesn't look that sweet. It's a great portable DAC though. Look at the specs.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/chord-mojo-portable-dac-amp?referer=92MGH6&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20D%20Product%20Announcement%202016-01-05&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20%5BD%5D
> 
> Oh the Fivre 6N7G brown base and 5998 sounds so good with the T1. Amazing. I'm hearing your sound now Suuup.


 
 The Chord Mojo is very interesting. I've been eyeing it for quite a while. It's a bit over budget though. Student life is not prosperous, although I should get a lot more option with my new job. 
  
 So, now that you've heard the T1 with Elise, do you not agree with my sentiment that Elise + T1 should be a package deal?


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Also, in theory, would it be possible to hook the optical out of a blu ray player to a DAC and then use rca to the Elise, to the T1?


 
 You're in luck. That's possible.
  
 I'll quote someone here...
  
 Assuming a decent player, the quality of sound from any source hinges on the DAC. You've got a pretty decent DAC, so I wouldn't worry about it. 

If you BluRay (assuming you already have this device) loads fast enough for you then that's fine, no need for an additional player. 

Depending on the quality of the BluRay, use either the analog outputs, if you feel they are sufficient. Or feed the external DAC with optical or coaxial. 

I have a universal DVD and a universal BluRay both in the roughly £500 price range, though I didn't pay that much. Today, that same £500 will buy a stellar Universal BluRay player with Network/Internet freatures, local music streaming, and video streaming from the Internet. In fact, to get those features, you don't really need to spend even £500. 

However some BluRay players are a little slow in loading. They have to do a lot of thinking to determine what kind of disk and how they need to handle it. In my case, that is not a problem. Mine are fast enough for me. 

Prior to the arrangement I had now, I have a really low end DVD that I used to play CD, but the internal DAC was dog-meat. So, I feed the signal to my TV and used the DAC in the TV, which sounded noticeably better. 

My points is, assuming you have a decent commonly price BluRay that is fast enough, it should be fine.
  
 You can Google for more info but it's quite clear it's been done before.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The Chord Mojo is very interesting. I've been eyeing it for quite a while. It's a bit over budget though. Student life is not prosperous, although I should get a lot more option with my new job.
> 
> So, now that you've heard the T1 with Elise, do you not agree with my sentiment that Elise + T1 should be a package deal?


 

 Well as an Elise salesman, I have a few headphones recommendation with Elise that I think are perfect. 2 that comes to mind are the T1 and HE560. I recommend those unreservedly. As I get to sample other TOTL headphones I'll list them as well. Even though I have not heard the HD800, I think that will be a knockout combo with Elise.
  
 However, where musicality is concerned, across a wide range of genres, T1 and HE560 with Elise. Simply amazing.
  
 Haha Elise salesman..I'm pro bono
  
 ps @jerick70 will tell you LCD2.2 with Elise is the ideal combo.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Well as an Elise salesman, I have a few headphones recommendation with Elise that I think are perfect. 2 that comes to mind are the T1 and HE560. I recommend those unreservedly. As I get to sample other TOTL headphones I'll list them as well. Even though I have not heard the HD800, I think that will be a knockout combo with Elise.
> 
> However, where musicality is concerned, across a wide range of genres, T1 and HE560 with Elise. Simply amazing.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I'm very happy with my LCD 2.2 and Elise combo.  I'm on the hunt for a good deal on a pair of HD800s. 
  
 I also found some T1 gen 1s on Ebay that are an excellent price.  I may get these instead.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm listening to classical now with T1 and Elise+Fivre 6N7G brown base+5998. I think this is perfect. T1 has the soundstage and revealing qualities to be a good classical headphone.
  
 Stravinsky: The Firebird
  
 ... quiet and soft passages are still so clear


----------



## UntilThen

WOW....Led Zeppelin 'Immigrant Song' phew. Life is too good so early in the morning.
  
 Who's my Led Zep friend here?
  
 T1 is going to rock with rock. Simply amazing.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Yes I'm very happy with my LCD 2.2 and Elise combo.  I'm on the hunt for a good deal on a pair of HD800s.
> 
> I also found some T1 gen 1s on Ebay that are an excellent price.  I may get these instead.


 

 HD800s are still expensive because they are not discontinuing the original. That is an indication the upgrade does not make the original absolute. I think the HD800 original is a masterpiece despite some of the criticism levelled at it. Probably won't suit everyone.
  
 I think T1 is easier to fit most people. It's a livelier and exciting sound. Surprisingly the treble didn't bother me. On the contrary I really love it now. I love the details.
  
 There's a new one for $649..used 25 hours.


----------



## pctazhp

Well, I'm getting closer. My Elise was shipped yesterday. Yaaaay!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I have no idea of how long it will take to reach Arizona. When it does arrive my stash of tubes (including EL3Ns and Mrs Xuling's EL3N adapters) will be waiting impatiently for it.
  
 Hey @UntilThen. Are you trying to deplete my bank account??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All this talk of headphones is getting me to think my lowly HD700s simply won't be worthy of the Elise!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Right now I could probably get a decent used T1, Gen 1 for around $600. A new one for about $890 or go all the way and get a new T1,Gen 2 for $1099.
  
 Oh wait!!!! If I'm going that high, for about $950 I could probably get a used pair of HD800s. BUT, while I'm at it why not just get a brand new pair of HD800S's for $1475??? I wouldn't need the extra balanced cable that comes with the new HD800S, so I could sell it which would bring the HD800S price down to a real bargain level for an end-game pair of cans!!! Is there no end to this madness????
  
 So, what did I ever do to you that made you inflict all of this pain on me????


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Well, I'm getting closer. My Elise was shipped yesterday. Yaaaay!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hahaha...grats on Elise shipping. I'll make things easy for you. The seller who sold me the T1 is currently using a HD700... maybe he will buy a T3 !!!
  
 It's a tough call for you since you have HD700 which is already a capable HP.  However a T1 Gen 1 will be an upgrade, I'll be presumptuous to proclaim. It's cheap now and good with Elise.
  
 Btw, those Tung Sol 7236 will be a good cheaper substitute for 5998. Use your EL3Ns with 7236.
  
 Sigh why does everyone get their adapters except me and I am suppose to test it LOL. Now all of you would have tested it for me so a big thanks.


----------



## B-60

pctazhp said:


> Well, I'm getting closer. My Elise was shipped yesterday. Yaaaay!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good for you!!!!
 I am getting closer to ordering Elise ,Lukasz emailed me today with 6 to 7 weeks delivery time.
 Here is the link for T1 GEN2 in CAN $1100 but I am not sure if they ship to USA.
 http://www.headphonebar.com/beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-gen/
 I was very close of buying them before I got HEX!
 I am sure that HD700 will do very well with this amp.
 Regards


----------



## UntilThen

T1 Gen2 has 5 years warranty. It's interesting the new version has
  

Audiophile, textile-coated connecting cable •
Conductor inside the cable made of OCC 7N copper •
  
 which is what my T1 original has now.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hahaha...grats on Elise shipping. I'll make things easy for you. The seller who sold me the T1 is currently using a HD700... maybe he will buy a T3 !!!
> 
> It's a tough call for you since you have HD700 which is already a capable HP.  However a T1 Gen 1 will be an upgrade, I'll be presumptuous to proclaim. It's cheap now and good with Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, the sensible thing to do is wait and see how my HD700s mate with the Elise. Of course, just because that is sensible doesn't mean it's what I will do)))
  
 You mentioned in a later post that your T1 has the same type of cable as the Gen 2. I wonder how much that cable is contributing to what you like in the T1. I know there is no way to for you to know, but just something I'm thinking about.
  
 I will definitely use the 7236s with the EL3Ns. I just ordered the C3G adapters from Mrs Xuling today, so it will be a while before I test the C3Gs. But I'm guessing they be behind the EL3Ns and the FDD20s.
  
 Here's hoping you wake up to find your adapters have arrived !!!


----------



## UntilThen

And from a store reviewer himself...so telling. Do yourself a favour and buy the T1 original at the discounted price LOL.
  
 To be honest, though, it wasn’t as though this were a revelation I immediately recognized.  The original T1 is a fantastic headphone in its own right, and the Second Generation is more of an incremental continuation of the T1 approach, as opposed to a complete upending of it.  Instead, listening to the two side by side, it wasn’t so much that the Second Generation T1 was so much better, but that the original may be just a little less awesome.

Personally – and this may be the pessimist/jaded headphone reviewer talking – *I preferred the original T1 because the sound seemed a little less harsh.*  This may have had to do with the source music – MP3s, not FLAC files.

If you’re in the Midtown neighborhood of Manhattan, and you happen to have some classical or rap music in lossless format, drop by the Audio46 brick-and-mortar headphones emporium and see what’s what for yourself.

  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## pctazhp

b-60 said:


> Good for you!!!!
> I am getting closer to ordering Elise ,Lukasz emailed me today with 6 to 7 weeks delivery time.
> Here is the link for T1 GEN2 in CAN $1100 but I am not sure if they ship to USA.
> http://www.headphonebar.com/beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-gen/
> ...


 

 From everything I know, you will be very happy if you do make the final decision.
  
 Thanks for the link. Think I'll probably just be patient and see how my HD700s like their new desktop friend.


----------



## Suuup

I don't know what I've done.. Just ordered a pair of Beyerdynamic T5p....


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


>


 

 Looks like the T1


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> And from a store reviewer himself...so telling. Do yourself a favour and buy the T1 original at the discounted price LOL.
> 
> To be honest, though, it wasn’t as though this were a revelation I immediately recognized.  The original T1 is a fantastic headphone in its own right, and the Second Generation is more of an incremental continuation of the T1 approach, as opposed to a complete upending of it.  Instead, listening to the two side by side, it wasn’t so much that the Second Generation T1 was so much better, but that the original may be just a little less awesome.
> 
> ... 
 I have heard different from shop owner in Toronto, to his ears the T1gen2 was much more refined on the top and at the same time smoother sounding (not so harsh) compare to original T1


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Looks like the T1


 
 I've always thought it was just a T1 with 32 ohm impedance. Found out yesterday that is was actually a closed headphone. So many negative reviews saying it is overly bright though. Not sure what to think.. At least we have a 14 day return period on EVERYTHING we buy on the internet in Denmark. If I don't like them, I can just return them and get a full refund.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> I have heard different from shop owner in Toronto, to his ears the T1gen2 was much more refined on the top and at the same time smoother sounding (not so harsh) compare to original T1


 
 Probably true but I don't suppose he's using a tube amp for that assessment. I guess the proof is in the listening for each individual. I can't see how the Gen2 would not be better. Beyer does not release shoddy stuff for their top end headphone. Their reputation is at stake. So it has to be good.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Probably true but I don't suppose he's using a tube amp for that assessment. I guess the proof is in the listening for each individual. I can't see how the Gen2 would not be better. Beyer does not release shoddy stuff for their top end headphone. Their reputation is at stake. So it has to be good.


 
 I think the ongoing comparison of the T1 Gen 1s to the Gen2s as well as the HD800 to the HD800S illustrates how difficult it is to form any kind of internet consensus. There are so many variables: each person's ability to articulate what he or she is hearing, our individual hearing ability, individual preferences, huge variety of upstream equipment - and on and on and on. Very interesting.


----------



## aqsw

b-60 said:


> Good for you!!!!
> I am getting closer to ordering Elise ,Lukasz emailed me today with 6 to 7 weeks delivery time.
> Here is the link for T1 GEN2 in CAN $1100 but I am not sure if they ship to USA.
> http://www.headphonebar.com/beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-gen/
> ...




Headphone bar will not ship to any country but Canada.


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


>


 
 Were you sleep walking at the time you placed the order???


----------



## B-60

aqsw said:


> Headphone bar will not ship to any country but Canada.


 
 Sorry to all USA buyers out there, at 40% exchange rate makes a very good deal!


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> Were you sleep walking at the time you placed the order???


 
 I have to know if they're like a closed portable version of the T1. If so, all I need is a portable Elise and I'm set for life.


----------



## aqsw

I almost bought the t1 .2 from headphone bar, but I got an almost new pair t1 for 625.00 cdn delivered.


----------



## aqsw

Sorry, double post


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I've always thought it was just a T1 with 32 ohm impedance. Found out yesterday that is was actually a closed headphone. So many negative reviews saying it is overly bright though. Not sure what to think.. At least we have a 14 day return period on EVERYTHING we buy on the internet in Denmark. If I don't like them, I can just return them and get a full refund.


 
 It's probably what you're looking for in a portable high end headphone that can be driven by iPod or iPhone or Android phones. I think if you are ok with T1's treble, you should have no problem with the T5p's.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> T1 Gen2 has 5 years warranty. It's interesting the new version has
> 
> 
> Audiophile, textile-coated connecting cable •
> ...


 
 UT,
 Is your T1 have 3.5mm just like the 2nd gen?
 I think the XEH original cable have 3.5mm jack to drivers so would be same as the T1 gen2?


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> UT,
> Is your T1 have 3.5mm just like the 2nd gen?
> I think the XEH original cable have 3.5mm jack to drivers so would be same as the T1 gen2?


 
 Gen 2 has 3.5mm jack?  Surprise... are you sure?
  
 Gen 1 has 6.3mm jack and my aftermarket cable just use the factory jack ... only the cable is changed. The installer who did it, just replace the cable but retain the jack and the connectors to the ear cups.
  
 Jack cover open up showing the soldering of cable wires to the jack connection points...


----------



## B-60

aqsw said:


> I almost bought the t1 .2 from headphone bar, but I got an almost new pair t1 for 625.00 cdn delivered.


 
 That is half of the T1.2
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Good deal,from CAM?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Gen 2 has 3.5mm jack?  Surprise... are you sure?
> 
> Gen 1 has 6.3mm jack and my aftermarket cable just use the factory jack ... only the cable is changed. The installer who did it, just replace the cable but retain the jack and the connectors to the ear cups.


 
 That is from the Beyer page

Connector . . . gold-plated 3-pole mini stereo jack (3.5 mm) & 1/4" adapter (6.35 mm)


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's probably what you're looking for in a portable high end headphone that can be driven by iPod or iPhone or Android phones. I think if you are ok with T1's treble, you should have no problem with the T5p's.


 
 Well, I'm really only okay with the treble on Elise. If I run it out of SS, I have to take off a lot of songs from my playlist.


----------



## mordy

Hi pctazhp,
  
 After Lukasz says that the item shipped it does not take long - maybe 4-5 days since it comes with some kind of express service. Have a little sticker ready to put on each tube base to write which number is on the bubble wrap - each tube is intended for a specific socket in the amp and numbered 1-4. I didn't know about it when I got my amp (#9) - it really doesn't matter much because you are going to use other than stock tubes.
  
 Re headphones, don't rush to buy now since you have a very good set already. Let the dust settle on which one is the best for the Elise (via consensus) and then upgrade if you feel like it. (T1 Gen1 or Gen2). You may very well be perfectly happy with what you have.
  
 On the other hand, I have come to appreciate the opinions of the people on this forum and trust what they say.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

T1 original use 6.3mm plug
  
 T1 Gen 2 use 3.5mm and a 3.5 to 6.3mm adapter when required. 

Connection cable with 3.5 mm jack plug and screwd-on 6.35 mm jack adapter

  
 Not sure why they make the Gen 2 cable by default 3.5mm
  
  
 Oh well jack size does not make for a better SQ sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a moot point.
  
 What I do like is the removable cable on Gen2.


----------



## UntilThen

Well my opinion is ... it doesn't matter what headphones you have...
  
 just get Elise .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 just make sure you don't use a earbud on Elise !!!


----------



## aqsw

b-60 said:


> That is half of the T1.2:eek:
> Good deal,from CAM?




Yes, from CAM . (Canuck audio mart)


----------



## Lorspeaker

I predict....the T5p will be returned.


----------



## UntilThen

@aqsw swim out to get your T1 and listen to this. Fantastico.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> You're in luck. That's possible.
> 
> I'll quote someone here...
> 
> ...







untilthen said:


> WOW....Led Zeppelin 'Immigrant Song' phew. Life is too good so early in the morning.
> 
> Who's my Led Zep friend here?
> 
> T1 is going to rock with rock. Simply amazing.


 

Cheers  

Oh and the Led Zeppelin friend would be me.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> I predict....the T5p will be returned.


 

 LOL.... Suuup all you need for travelling is the monk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Save the money for a DAC deck dat dare whatever.


----------



## mordy

Just used my new earbuds in the Elise (sorry UT).
  
 Had been burning in my VE Monk buds for some 26 hours. IMHO I like them better than my Yamaha MT-220 full size headphones.
  
 Lorspeaker - I am going off the deep end?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Well my opinion is ... it doesn't matter what headphones you have...
> 
> just get Elise ....
> 
> ...


 
 I did something that I should not have done!!!!
 I can not go back on this now
  The plan was selling some cables to buy Elise and then
  
Schiit Happened,LYR2 with Siemens ECC 88 with Cardas clear beyond power cord!  
 I have brand new amp that I will be happy for long time, wait I have said that so many times...lol
 Elise order out of my books for now at 40% exchange and that pushing $1000 Can.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> I did something that I should not have done!!!!
> I can not go back on this now
> The plan was selling some cables to buy Elise and then
> 
> ...


 

 Fair enough. It's not a hard sell. Lyr2 should keep you happy.
  
 Incidentally exchange rate works out at $1000 AUD for my Elise but it's a purchase I've never been happier. Exchange rate for goods made in US or Europe will be bad for us Aussies or Canadians unless we seek out home grown manufacturers.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Just used my new earbuds in the Elise (sorry UT).
> 
> Had been burning in my VE Monk buds for some 26 hours. IMHO I like them better than my Yamaha MT-220 full size headphones.
> 
> Lorspeaker - I am going off the deep end?


 

 Earbuds works with Elise?
  
 Let me try a earbud.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok this monk has no bass.


----------



## Suuup

lorspeaker said:


> I predict....the T5p will be returned.


 
 I predict... the same. But it's free, so why not try? I could get lucky and actually like them.


----------



## jerick70

b-60 said:


> That is from the Beyer page
> 
> Connector . . . gold-plated 3-pole mini stereo jack (3.5 mm) & 1/4" adapter (6.35 mm)


 

 This is the T1 gen2 correct.  The original T1 doesn't have a removable cable like this.


----------



## aqsw

I had a Lyr and Bifrost. It had plenty of power, but there really is no comparison between the Elise and Lyr. I don't think the Lyr2 would make that big of a difference. It was fun for my first fling at a tube amp though.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright aqsw I'm handling you Elise sale rep badge now. 
  
 Colour me orange !!! Mordy, you were not kidding when you say your monk works on Elise. This Klipsch that belongs to my daughter, has lovely sound and bass !!! Volume at 9 o'clock at the most. Anything more and this orange cable will turn black. Look at that funky colour.


----------



## B-60

aqsw said:


> I had a Lyr and Bifrost. It had plenty of power, but there really is no comparison between the Elise and Lyr. I don't think the Lyr2 would make that big of a difference. It was fun for my first fling at a tube amp though.


 
 Let see what happens next


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy where do I buy a monk earbud? I hope the shipping cost won't be $50 !!! or I'll buy local.
  
 Ummm earbud listening quite fun LOL. This Klipsch earbud sounds good. Nah the details are missing.


----------



## mordy

These certainly work - volume at 12 o'clock. These buds sound like my speakers now, and I considered my speakers as having better resolution than my headphones.
  
 Don't know what's happening - I can only do what I have done from day 1 - report honestly on what I hear.
  
 I am able to A/B the earbuds and my speakers with a push of a button - the sound is equally good.
  
 16mm sub woofers???
  
 OK - let me crank up an audiophile recording with 20Hz bass - let's see if the buds can handle it!
  
 Winner: Speakers. Second Yammies, Third Monks. But the earbuds are very very close in the lowest bass. Maybe with more burn in. Overall they beat the Yammies.
  
 UT - how do the Klipsh buds sound?


----------



## jerick70

I purchased the T1 on Ebay.  I couldn't pass up the deal.  If I don't like it I can sell it.  But I think I wil love it.  @UntilThen , and @Suuup haven't steered me wrong yet!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Alright aqsw I'm handling you Elise sale rep badge now.
> 
> Colour me orange !!! Mordy, you were not kidding when you say your monk works on Elise. This Klipsch that belongs to my daughter, has lovely sound and bass !!! Volume at 9 o'clock at the most. Anything more and this orange cable will turn black. Look at that funky colour.


 
  
  


mordy said:


> These certainly work - volume at 12 o'clock. These buds sound like my speakers now, and I considered my speakers as having better resolution than my headphones.
> 
> Don't know what's happening - I can only do what I have done from day 1 - report honestly on what I hear.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting.  IEMs on the Elise.  Is there a lot of background noise?


----------



## mordy

Email the owner of the company (Mr. Lee) directly at geargeeksp@gmail.com or geargeeksp@qq.com. The price is $5 + shipping e-packet from Hong Kong. Ask him how to pay (I used PayPal sending money to a business which he asked me to do), and how much shipping is to AU. (Paid $3 to the US)
  
 Alternatively, the earbuds will be available on Alibaba on Jan 7.
  
 He responds promptly.


----------



## mordy

Hi jerick70,
  
 Not any more noise than normal.  If you don't have hum in your system, you will not hear it with the earbuds. And if hum, you will hear it.
  
 BTW, these earbuds do not go inside the earcanal - they just stay on the outside part of the ear.


----------



## jerick70

mordy said:


> Hi jerick70,
> 
> Not any more noise than normal.  If you don't have hum in your system, you will not hear it with the earbuds. And if hum, you will hear it.
> 
> BTW, these earbuds do not go inside the earcanal - they just stay on the outside part of the ear.


 

 Hey mordy,
  
 I didn't think the Elise would do well with earbuds or IEMs.  I guess this makes her an all around headamp.
  
 Yeah I see that now after reading some reviews of the Monks.  $5 is a great price too.


----------



## mordy

Monk = 32 Ohm


----------



## UntilThen

Ok the Klipsch sounded better than I expected but to think it will even be on par with the T1, HE560 or even HD650 is way off scale. The details are completely off compared to the full size headphones. Stick to proper headphones guys.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I purchased the T1 on Ebay.  I couldn't pass up the deal.  If I don't like it I can sell it.  But I think I wil love it.  @UntilThen , and @Suuup haven't steered me wrong yet!


 

 Congrats !!! 
  
 Jerick you will need time to settle down with the T1, especially coming from the LCD2.2. It's a complete opposite. I await your personal impressions when you have the T1 compared with the LCD2.2
  
 I've yet to see someone liking both LCD2.2 and T1 as they are very different headphones but you might be won over by the soundstage, details and clarity in exchange for the LCD2.2 gorgeous bass. T1 bass will be tight and controlled and having spend time with HE560, I much prefer this kind of bass. Control and precise. Obviously T1 treble will show up what the LCD2.2 lacks in that department. 
  
 Perhaps, just perhaps you might like both. Spend alternate days with each.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> These buds sound like my …


 
  
 They _look_ exactly like my geriatric Sennheiser earbuds.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Congrats !!!
> 
> Jerick you will need time to settle down with the T1, especially coming from the LCD2.2. It's a complete opposite. I await your personal impressions when you have the T1 compared with the LCD2.2
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks UT!  I'm excited.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like both sounds to be honest.  As long as the treble isn't SSSSSSibilant.  I am a speaker nut too.  I've owned the KEF LS50s with an SS amp and loved the clarity but the peaky treble killed it for me.  I purchased an tube amp to calm them down up top.  I ened up trading them for the Ascend Acoustic Sierra 2s and I'm in love now....
  
 Anyway I think I'll like both.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Thanks UT!  I'm excited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good for you.
  
 Deciding which I prefer between the HE560 and T1 with Elise, is a lot harder for me. I'll probably just give up and enjoy music with both. It's a pity you sold off your HE560 because I would have love your impressions of it with Elise. HE560 with a tube amp transforms into my kind of headphone. Very fast and agile. Both headphones are fast and agile. I feel alive hearing through them. 
  
 'Hold On' by Holly Cole sounds amazing now. Really, really love both headphones on this song.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> They _look_ exactly like my geriatric Sennheiser earbuds.


 

 You're too funny Oskari.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Before the Monks I would have said the same thing - I never heard any earbuds that were a match for proper headphones.
  
 Hi Oskari: Looks are deceiving. The Monks don't look like anything special at all, but once you listen you are in for a real surprise....
  
 I am sticking to my guns.....
  
 As for myself, I did not believe the hype on the VE Monk thread, but now when I got them, I am convinced. It is not hype; it is true. They are not superior to some of the top grade headphones, but they come pretty close, and at a fraction of the price.
  
 I haven't heard so many ear buds, but some of my grandchildren have the fancy Klipsh and Bose earphones, and these VE Monk earbuds are far superior IMHO. Not to mention various Sony and Apple earphones....


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> You're too funny Oskari.


 
  
 But they do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Check photos Monk vs. e.g. MX300.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 I actually have those geriatric Sony earphones somewhere, but mine were gray....
  
 Actually they were quite good in their day, and Sam Tellig mentioned them once in his column in Stereophile on my suggestion.


----------



## UntilThen

@Lorspeaker must have put some potent stuff into those monks. I must try one for cycling. 
  
 This have good review too...
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/bette-8mm-1-1-hybrid/reviews/13561


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I actually have those geriatric Sony earphones somewhere, but mine were gray....


 
  
 Sennheiser MX300.
  
 Also MX200, MX400, MX500.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Sennheiser MX300.
> 
> Also MX200, MX400, MX500.


 

 I remember I had this MX300 but my dog chewed it up.


----------



## Oskari

I checked. I have the MX400. Older than some of the whippersnappers here.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I checked. I have the MX400. Older than some of the whippersnappers here.


 

 Your MX400 cannot be older than my oldest tubes. The Philips Miniwatt FDD20s are 25th May 1942. It's amazing that they are in such pristine conditions and sound so lovely.


----------



## UntilThen

Howl. Sat through listening to Dire Straits with T1 and Elise. This is an incredibly detail headphone. You hear everything. So neutral, the bass is clinical and precise. There is no colouration here. What you have in your recording is what you hear. However I have coloured it quite a fair bit with Elise and my tubes. Warm and lush colourations. The best of both worlds. Bass is nicely boosted. Gorgeous soundstage and imaging. You can place musicians and instruments precisely. Absolutely stunning to listen music with. It's not just revealing but musical too. You can sit for hours listening and the light weight and light grip of the HP helps tremendously. I really love this original version. Can't see how I would want to change the sound further except perhaps eagerly awaiting the EL3Ns.
  
 Still can't get over the euphoria


----------



## UntilThen

How often in head-fi have you heard something so good you want to tell the world about it. Well in the space of 2 months, it's twice for me. First was Elise now the T1. More importantly, it's the Elise + T1 package. Yes Suuup, I agree now. This is the perfect package. I had a quick look over at the T1 impressions thread and Elise is not much known there. If only they know how good T1 sounds through Elise. As a matter of fact, I'm now more convince than ever, it's the original T1 with Elise, that is the perfect setup. 
  
 Cheers to those who have discovered or will be discovering this magic combo. It's heavenly now with 'Telegraph Road'. Simply amazing. I stop several times while writing because the music stuns me. I've never heard 'Telegraph Road' like this before. The whole 'Alchemy: Dire Straits Live(Remastered) album sizzles with T1.
  
 Tubes used on Elise - Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998
  
 Local Hero theme song now..this is my moment ladies and gents. Eyes close, ears open.
 Ok song finished and I'm breathless. Now for the tributes. Thanks Feliks Audio for this marvellous tube amp. Thanks beyerdynamic for the T1. If only you know how good the original T1 sounds through Elise, you wouldn't have bothered tuning it into the Gen 2. Just my 2 cents but nevertheless thanks for a splendid TOTL headphone.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

So the T1 has replaced the he560's for you all around UT? Or just for certain tubes or genres?

Funny enough, I have FDD20's, EL3N's, 6080's, adapters, and yet my Elise isn't here yet. 

I think I'm going to rock my HD650's for a while longer yet until I decide where to go from there


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> So the T1 has replaced the he560's for you all around UT? Or just for certain tubes or genres?
> 
> Funny enough, I have FDD20's, EL3N's, 6080's, adapters, and yet my Elise isn't here yet.
> 
> I think I'm going to rock my HD650's for a while longer yet until I decide where to go from there


 

 PA, I love both but I'm leaning more and more towards the T1. The soundstage and imaging is to die for. Plus a precision and perfect bass, one of the sweetest midrange around and an unbeatable treble. What are you waiting for? 
  
 Grab a pair of T1 original now and consigned the HD650 to the storage box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 All around mate. T1 is an all rounder. You only need just this one headphone with Elise.
  
 I think my HD650 won't see much use now.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> PA, I love both but I'm leaning more and more towards the T1. The soundstage and imaging is to die for. Plus a precision and perfect bass, one of the sweetest midrange around and an unbeatable treble. What are you waiting for?
> 
> Grab a pair of T1 original now and consigned the HD650 to the storage box.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ditto, UT...mine are now pining away - just like my LDMKIV SE!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Elise + T1s + latest tubes is simply to die for...(especially with a good DAC!)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Am so glad you decided to go for the "Two birds in the Bush", lol...you certainly did strike gold...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Mailman _still _not made your day?...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...my commiserations, mon ami!...


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pctazhp,
> 
> After Lukasz says that the item shipped it does not take long - maybe 4-5 days since it comes with some kind of express service. Have a little sticker ready to put on each tube base to write which number is on the bubble wrap - each tube is intended for a specific socket in the amp and numbered 1-4. I didn't know about it when I got my amp (#9) - it really doesn't matter much because you are going to use other than stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks so much mordy. That is very helpful information.You advice on the headphones is very good and I plan to follow it. I too respect the opinions of people on this forum. But I don't think there are many here who have tried the Elise + HD700 combination. I've got a lot of burn-in time ahead with my new Elise and various tubes. No sense to further confuse the situation with a new HP I'm not familiar with.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am still finding the EL3N/5998 combination superior, when using the Sennheiser 580's, over the Beyer DT-990's.

Every other combination of tubes, superior via the Beyer DT-990's.


----------



## Lord Raven

Oh God, please don't say that about FDD20s 
  
 I am guessing, who was that guy to discover the blue tint tubes?
  
 My EL3N adapters landed in the desert  I am thinking I will get them next week, starting on Sunday which is our first working day  LOL
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Hey LR...please, *please* try the EL3Ns before getting more FDD20s (spoken by the one who brought this fabulous blue-coloured tube to our ears, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Mordy,
  
 I have the Sennheiser MX685, they give me tinnitus and a shifted threshold of hearing that cause sensitivity towards noises, I seriously hate using ear buds. When you sweat in the gym, you get itching inside your ears and then things go wrong when you scratch and infections start. It is just a friendly reminder to all of you guys.
  
 I don't think I will try another ear buds, and these 5$ ones? I am not sure if they can beat these...
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> With all the talk about new headphones I also got a new pair.
> 
> How about 85% of the sound of the $500 headphones for one hundred times LESS????
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 I am going through the HP discussion on Elise forum, still not convinced if I should buy another pair of phones 
  
 I am listening to everything on my HD600, I will give them a fair chance before I move on to something else.
  
 Suggest me something, how do I carry HD600 to Oz? I wish to travel with them LOL They're not foldable, I think I should stuff them inside my backpack that I would hand carry. The DAC will also stay inside the same backup with a 12V portable DC source LOL I am going crazy I know...
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Take your time with this hobby LR. There's no rush. Head-Fi isn't leaving planet earth anytime soon. Agreed that if you've just started to sample the HD600, you're indeed in for a very good time. Enjoy !!!


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


>


 
  
 Hi LR...'twas indeed I who stumbled upon the FDD20 - and I _*still*_ urge you to try the EL3N..._*trust me!!!...and CITIZENLIN...and JazzVinyl....*_


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LR...'twas indeed I who stumbled upon the FDD20 - and I _*still*_ urge you to try the EL3N..._*trust me!!!...and CITIZENLIN...and JazzVinyl....*_


 
 Hi H1,
  
 Thanks for finding this beautiful looking tube, I am 32 and I have time to try a lot of good looking tubes haha
  
 EL3N lot is here, adapters have landed in my country  I am hoping to test next week, God willing!


----------



## Lorspeaker

The mONk is a serious listening tool...
  
  
 fire up your best gears, hear the ripples...deep into the soundscape.
  

  
  
  
 bring it to the soaking gym if u must


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> Thanks for finding this beautiful looking tube, I am 32 and I have time to try a lot of good looking tubes haha
> 
> EL3N lot is here, adapters have landed in my country  I am hoping to test next week, God willing!


 
  
 Yeah LR...I think the FDD20 is one of the best-looking (and _sounding!_) tubes out there - that blue hue is _*so*_ sexy, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I swear UT was equally seduced by the look of the EL3N when he was on the prowl!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...God Bless him! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yes indeed...time is on your side, you young'un!!


----------



## UntilThen

You must forgive my indulgence for going nuts with the T1 and getting everyone excited with their headphones too. I think that is a good thing. If you love the sound from your headphone, then be passionate about it and good for you . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hi LR, HD600 is indeed a very good headphone, even if it's starting to show it's age. However a good design HP will stand the test of time. That goes back 10 years now and yet people still love it. Get right into it and know the sound well. If and when you feel the itch to upgrade, you'll be able to tell immediately when you compare with another headphone.
  
 Full size, open, closed, dynamic, orthos, iems, earbuds, the choice is infinite. Headphones sales are picking up. My children have a collection of earbuds ranging from Bose, Sennheiser, Pioneer, Klipsch to Sony which they go through faster then I roll my tubes. Earbuds got fashionable with the rise of iPod. Then office workers got bold and started to bring their full-size headphones to work. One guy seated next to me many years ago, was particularly proud of his Koss.
  
 LR, don't throw the HD600 into your backpack. I wouldn't. If you must travel with it, buy a protective portable case. It needs to be looked after for a long long time till you're 60....haha. Buy this...or something similar. Any colour you want.


----------



## UntilThen

These 2 are very nice looking driver tubes and they also happen to sound the best. The red rubber paint on the EL3Ns though are not lasting and drop of easily.
  
       
  
 I have five FDD20, six EL3N and three ECC31. Which looks best?


----------



## UntilThen

Where do you guys go to, to check the status of your adapter delivery? Can you post a link?
  
 I go to Hong Kong Post tracking and all it says is left for it's destination on the 19th Dec 2015. Aust Post tracking for that item says not trackable, as is the case with small items.
  
 Mrs Xu Ling send out my adapters on the 13th Dec 2015 and I still haven't receive it.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> fire up your best gears, hear the ripples...deep into the soundscape.


 
 I love soundtrack and that Batman soundtrack is nice but hear this epic playlist... a guy said when his girlfriend hears it, she left him. Another said he hears this when he's learning Spanish. Now he knows 8 languages. Try it, who knows what will happen to you.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You must forgive my indulgence for going nuts with the T1 and getting everyone excited with their headphones too. I think that is a good thing. If you love the sound from your headphone, then be passionate about it and good for you .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had my T1's in my backpack during my vacation in Italy. They're fine. I did make sure to not throw my bag around though. I ordered a case from Beyerdynamic a couple of weeks ago for my 1770. 

 Haven't tried it yet though.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I had my T1's in my backpack during my vacation in Italy. They're fine. I did make sure to not throw my bag around though.


 
 Aww don't do that. You will scratch the lovely metal ear cups on the T1 and the leather is too soft to withstand frictions.
  
 The T1 metal colour is very unusual. It's like pewter colour or light bronze.


----------



## UntilThen

I get many private messages asking me about the Darkvoice 336se and tubes. My past is haunting me. Then I tell them to forget about the Darkvoice and buy Elise hahaha.
  
 Double barrel, think double barrel.


----------



## tjw321

D@rn internet. I've missed @UTs T1 odyssey, @H1 lying about his age (adding a few years to get free travel? No way are you older than me!), and a lot of fun with adapters... Mine are ordered BTW...and loads more, no doubt. Back again in an hour (which is how long it's taking head-fi to load ATM).
 BTW, @LR, I have HD600s, too. I use a "slappa" hard case - which is much better than it sounds. No way will I be parting with my HD600s, even if I my T1 fund ever manages to reach it's target.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> I get many private messages asking me about the Darkvoice 336se and tubes. My past is haunting me. Then I tell them to forget about the Darkvoice and buy Elise hahaha.
> 
> Double barrel, think double barrel.


 
 You mean two bottles of water is better than one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> You mean two bottles of water is better than one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Of course. If you're stranded in the desert, 2 bottles will make you a royalty. Even the camels will dance for you.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Of course. If you're stranded in the desert, 2 bottles will make you a royalty. Even the camels will dance for you.


 
 Is that what will happen when I buy the Elise, can I substitute the camels for a .......?


----------



## UntilThen

I really wonder why Feliks Audio call this tube amp Elise. The name must be special to them. I like it a lot. A very good name. 
  
 Let me assure you when you buy Elise, you get more than camels. You get this..


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I really wonder why Feliks Audio call this tube amp Elise. The name must be special to them. I like it a lot. A very good name.




Mr Feliks might be a classical music fan...Beethoven wrote a symphony: "Fur Elise"


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Mr Feliks might be a classical music fan...Beethoven wrote a symphony: "Fur Elise"


 
 According to Oskari and DL, he's a Cure fan though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Letter to Elise...
  
 Look at the stylus. Like gliding on water.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright let's change tempo. This is incredible. I didn't know he can sing in mandarin but it's the female singer who is stunning. She's a chinese folk singer.
  
 
  
 Listen to her on this video.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> According to Oskari and DL, he's a Cure fan though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm. That's actually interesting. Never thought about way they named it Elise. Should we ask them?
  
 Also, an ECC31 just sold on Ebay for 30$. Guess they're depreciating in value.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL I have not touched my stash of EL3N as I might rub the ancient red paint off of them 
  
 I am young but my end game has reached LOL I keep saying this to myself so that I don't have to upgrade my stuff.. I am going to see UT soon, then I will hear the T1 and HE560, I will take my HD600 with myself gor comparison. Who know I might change my mind haha
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Yeah LR...I think the FDD20 is one of the best-looking (and _sounding!_) tubes out there - that blue hue is _*so*_ sexy, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> According to Oskari and DL, he's a Cure fan though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Very interesting thought.  If so, he is a man after my own heart.


----------



## Lord Raven

Brother, it is too late to source a hard case like that  Maybe when I am there, you take me to a local shop and buy me a hard case to protect my precious HD600?
  
 I will wrap them in a cloth or something and then throw them in my backpack, I wish they don't break or I will be heart broken forever. I should find a hard case locally, not meant for HPs but anything, maybe I should put them in my wife's hand bag  Or maybe I should keep wearing them through out the journey around my neck like a neck pillow? LOL Suggest something...
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> You must forgive my indulgence for going nuts with the T1 and getting everyone excited with their headphones too. I think that is a good thing. If you love the sound from your headphone, then be passionate about it and good for you .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here is the website, it is good, my adapters are going to be here soon. If you want I can bring them along, so that we can test your stash of EL3N tubes LOL
  
http://globaltracktrace.ptc.post/gtt.web/


untilthen said:


> Where do you guys go to, to check the status of your adapter delivery? Can you post a link?
> 
> I go to Hong Kong Post tracking and all it says is left for it's destination on the 19th Dec 2015. Aust Post tracking for that item says not trackable, as is the case with small items.
> 
> Mrs Xu Ling send out my adapters on the 13th Dec 2015 and I still haven't receive it.


----------



## Lord Raven

Where did you get that kind of a hard case?
  
 I hate it, I have 4 x ECC31 LOL I will sell them at 30, anyone want them?  No I should keep them, they're the warmest sounding tubes as per reviews, I still have to listen to them when my golden adapters arrive. Only then I shall decide to keep them or throw them on eBay 
  


suuup said:


> Hmm. That's actually interesting. Never thought about way they named it Elise. Should we ask them?
> 
> Also, an ECC31 just sold on Ebay for 30$. Guess they're depreciating in value.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


>


 
http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/dt-hard-case.html
 I don't know if they will fit your HD600 though.


----------



## Lord Raven

tjw321 said:


> D@rn internet. I've missed @UTs T1 odyssey, @H1 lying about his age (adding a few years to get free travel? No way are you older than me!), and a lot of fun with adapters... Mine are ordered BTW...and loads more, no doubt. Back again in an hour (which is how long it's taking head-fi to load ATM).
> BTW, @LR, I have HD600s, too. I use a "slappa" hard case - which is much better than it sounds. No way will I be parting with my HD600s, even if I my T1 fund ever manages to reach it's target.


 
 Bro, where did you get this "slappa" hard case from? I might buy, since I would travel with them  Their original box is huge, I cannot carry that.
  
 I have the same feeling about HD600, they're the best sounding HPs ever made  Thanks for supporting me in defending HD600 against T1 LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/dt-hard-case.html
> I don't know if they will fit your HD600 though.


 
 No way, they are Beyer stuff  I thought they were generic.. Thanks for the link though, my Focal Spirit One had a great hard case box which I never used to keep it like new LOL The buyer thought my HPs were unused cause of the hard case, even though I used them for 2 years LOL


----------



## UntilThen

$30 for a ECC31? Impossible. I have to do some good reviews for ECC31s. Like write some glowing reports. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I mean seriously they are good. 
  
 LR, hardcase are on eBay
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/I-Portable-Headphones-Case-for-Sennheiser-Momentum-HD650-HD600-HD598-HD580-HD558-/371448967854?hash=item567c1572ae:g:tnQAAOSwVL1WBQpP
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Sennheiser-Headphone-Carrying-Case-HD650-HD600-HD598-HD558-HD518-etc-/121802018905?hash=item1c5bf75059:g:kBsAAOSwT5tWM6uK
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Case-For-Sennheiser-HD380-HD435-HD485-HD595-HD598-HD600-HD650-/261146705725?hash=item3ccd8e7f3dm--tGsBp81GSHKopaJMiT0A


----------



## Lord Raven

First time listening to Alison Krauss, her vocals are sweet, judging by her voice I thought she would be younger as compared to the album cover LOL
  
 DSD64>DAC>ELISE<FDD20>5998>HEAVEN


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> $30 for a ECC31? Impossible. I have to do some good reviews for ECC31s. Like write some glowing reports.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Bro, you are a game changer LOL Do so, so that I would be able to get rid of some tubes haha


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> First time listening to Alison Krauss, her vocals are sweet, judging by her voice I thought she would be younger as compared to the album cover LOL
> 
> DSD64>DAC>ELISE<FDD20>5998>HEAVEN


 
 Ah yes, Alison Krauss is indeed wonderful. Her version of When You Say Nothing At All is my favorite! Such a lovely voice. Paper Airplane, one of her albums, won best engineered album that year.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Ah yes, Alison Krauss is indeed wonderful. Her version of When You Say Nothing At All is my favorite! Such a lovely voice. Paper Airplane, one of her albums, won best engineered album that year.


 
 I think I have heard those songs you mentioned.
  
 I have her albums including the last one I just mentioned, she is sweet as an angel..
  
 - Forget About It 1999 DSD
 - Union Station (Live) 2002 DSD


----------



## UntilThen

Indeed Alison Krauss is one of my favourite. I'm swayed by Julie London now though thanks to TJ lol. Female vocalists .. I love them all.
  
 ECC31 price is still high on eBay. $150 for one !!!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-ECC31-VINTAGE-BRITISH-OLD-STOCK-AVO-TESTED-BOXED-VINTAGE-VALVE-TUBE-/172034924769?hash=item280e14a0e1:g:nfMAAOSwuTxV~4Q6


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> According to Oskari and DL, he's a Cure fan though. :bigsmile_face:   Letter to Elise...
> 
> Look at the stylus. Like gliding on water.




You mean Lukasz...I'm talking: his dad 

And WOW does that vinyl SOUND GREAT!! And it's a LIVE recording!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Look at the stylus. Like gliding on water.




But then again, the video is not real, the needle never traverses the entire record. 

It's a loop of a few seconds of dragging gem stone though plastic...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> DSD64>DAC>ELISE<FDD20>5998>HEAVEN


 
 I'm glad you get to experience FDD20 with 5998. Incredible sound...  especially from a T1.


----------



## Lord Raven

Now listening to "When you say nothing at all - Alison Krauss"
  
 I think the Ronan Keating version was the best, I have that album on DSD either  I might be the luckiest person alive hehe In terms of audio...


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I'm glad you get to experience FDD20 with 5998. Incredible sound.


 
 Brother, the real magic is in what you feed these tubes with  DSD
  
 I am glad it all happened to me, at one time I never even wanted to upgrade from stock tubes, that changed with the arrival of a DAC. With stock tubes, Elise became redundant cause my DAC's HP amplifier was way better than Elise  LOL


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Now listening to "When you say nothing at all - Alison Krauss"
> 
> I think the Ronan Keating version was the best, I have that album on DSD either  I might be the luckiest person alive hehe In terms of audio...


 
 Ronan Keating was very good also. My mother used to listen to it all the time many years ago. I still prefer Alison Krauss though. 
  
 Get a T1 and you will be set for life LR.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I wrote to Mrs Xu Ling and ask why my adapters are not here when it has even reach Saudi Arabia. I was the 1st to order it. She send it out on the 13th of Dec. Almost a month.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Ronan Keating was very good also. My mother used to listen to it all the time many years ago. I still prefer Alison Krauss though.
> 
> Get a T1 and you will be set for life LR.


 
 Oh GOD  T1 is going to be in my dreams now, I am listening to Sting now, and I can tell you that I have never heard him like I do now.
  
 WOW WOW and WOW....... I want to crank up the volume, I can hear the deep bass hitting me hard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I thousand years to reach this audio nirvana... I am glad, every penny I spent is worth it!!!
  
 I gotta listen to Sting in my car next


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Get a T1 and you will be set for life LR.


 
 Correction !!!  Get a T1 and you'll have no life at all !!!  
  
 You'll be listening 24/7
  
 Ok I better not torture LR. Let him enjoy his HD600.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Alright I wrote to Mrs Xu Ling and ask why my adapters are not here when it has even reach Saudi Arabia. I was the 1st to order it. She send it out on the 13th of Dec. Almost a month.


 
 LMAO the Saudi Arabian reference would make her lose sleep, that was epic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Guess the Saudi Post has started working haha


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Alright I wrote to Mrs Xu Ling and ask why my adapters are not here when it has even reach Saudi Arabia. I was the 1st to order it. She send it out on the 13th of Dec. Almost a month.


 
 Sounds like you have to find your scuba gear UT. 
  
  


lord raven said:


> Oh GOD  T1 is going to be in my dreams now, I am listening to Sting now, and I can tell you that I have never heard him like I do now.
> 
> WOW WOW and WOW....... I want to crank up the volume, I can hear the deep bass hitting me hard
> 
> ...


 
 LR, just buy them now. They will not leave your mind until you buy them! And then they won't leave your head (because you will listen to the all the time) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: @Lord Raven Where do you get all of your DSD music?


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL my Camel is ready to get the adapters in the desert 
  
 Suuup, I am going to Australia to UT, this trip could get me 7-8 brand new T1's. A major investment to see a new country killed all the audio scene in 2016. I will still get to spend some time with T1 in the Oz with UT, if he lets me in his hum free home LOL
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> Sounds like you have to find your scuba gear UT.
> 
> 
> LR, just buy them now. They will not leave your mind until you buy them! And then they won't leave your head (because you will listen to the all the time)


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


>


 
 When are you going? Also, did you see my comment about DSD? It will be nice to get a second pair of ears on UTs Elise! Who knows, his ears might incorporate a hum-filter! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I do trust UTs ears at this point though!


----------



## UntilThen

I love Holly Cole. I do. I do. I do.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Correction !!!  Get a T1 and you'll have no life at all !!!
> 
> You'll be listening 24/7
> 
> Ok I better not torture LR. Let him enjoy his HD600.


 
 I am getting T1, I should torture you back haha


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I am getting T1, I should torture you back haha


 
 Yes! We finally convinced him. Enjoy LR.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> When are you going? Also, did you see my comment about DSD? It will be nice to get a second pair of ears on UTs Elise! Who knows, his ears might incorporate a hum-filter!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Did you mean this comment? " Paper Airplane, one of her albums, won best engineered album that year. "
  
 LOL I am also hum free, so I have settled that matter with UT haha you need someone else with hum to goto Oz and put their ears on UT's Elise haha...
  
 Tonight I power up my rig and there was a loud hum, and I was like, What not again. I checked the lightning strike 8 gauge grounding cable, it was still in good contact outside my window, checked the emergency contact, it was screwed well LOL Then I checked the extension cord, nothing worked. I was like DAMN IT. Then I unplugged the Elise and heater PS, replugged them and there still was loud hum. At this point I was like, my grounding has deceived me LOL. Then I pushed the Elise plug deep inside the socket and voila the hum turned into a total pin drop SILENCE  Hence the return of my smile... hehehee


----------



## Lord Raven

Can anyone confirm if these are a good buy, I am bidding my oil rigs on these LOL Beware...
  
 I heard bottom round O getter 5998 is better than top mounted getters, what do you think guys?
  
Forbidden 5998


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Yes! We finally convinced him. Enjoy LR.


 
 T1 are more money than Elise  You should hear my story of HD600 from UT LOL I only spent 345 AUD on them, he suggested a store in Oz which was the cheapest price on them, do you think I can spend more than Elise on a pair of HPs?
  
 If I sell HD600 now, I might make money on them LOL


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Yes! We finally convinced him. Enjoy LR.


 

 Yes my wallets lighter because you too.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I should have my T1s on Friday.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> When are you going? Also, did you see my comment about DSD? It will be nice to get a second pair of ears on UTs Elise! Who knows, his ears might incorporate a hum-filter!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 UT's ears? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll meet humphrey aka Elise. Please bring your EL3N adapters. If mine don't come by the end of the week then it's really lost. Sigh.
  
  
  
 Get an Fiio X5. With an additional Fiio E12 amp, this combo sounds real good on T1. Amazing. Volume only at half.
 The X5 does at least have a spec as big as its body, though – if you overlook the disappointing lack of on-board storage. File support is all-encompassing, with DSD, APE, FLAC, ALAC and all theother, less headline-making formats dealt with.

 There are headphone-, line-level and digital coaxial outputs (all 3.5mm sockets) as well as a micro-USB socket and two microSD card slots (currently limited to 64GB cards, but firmware updates are planned to allow up to 256GB cards in each microSD slot).

 And the X5 can function as an asynchronous DAC for your PC too – its USB socket can handle files up to 24-bit/192kHz.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> UT's ears?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have to concur on the X5.  It is an excellent DAP.  I've owned the original X5 and the X5 II.  I prefer the X5 II.  I am drooling over the X7 that Fiio just released.  It looks amazing!


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Yes my wallets lighter because you too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh Jerick, I'm so excited. Everyone is getting T1!! Congratulations man. Looking forward to your impressions. I know you won't be disappointed. Package deal!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Can anyone confirm if these are a good buy, I am bidding my oil rigs on these LOL Beware...
> 
> I heard bottom round O getter 5998 is better than top mounted getters, what do you think guys?
> 
> Forbidden 5998


 

 Don't believe in snake oil. Top or bottom getters makes no difference. I have both and I have UT's ears.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Don't believe insane oil. Top or bottom getters makes no difference. I have both and I have UT's ears.


 
 I want UT ears.


----------



## B-60

Dead Can Dance any one?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just pick up Spiritchaser CD 4AD Can pressing for $3 what a DEAL must listen to this one on ELISE! 
 This is for you UT!!!
 Try them with your T1, you will be blown away!!!
 Every track on this CD is so Good!Lisa Gerrard is SO GOOD


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Oh Jerick, I'm so excited. Everyone is getting T1!! Congratulations man. Looking forward to your impressions. I know you won't be disappointed. Package deal!


 

 Thanks @Suuup.  I'm really looking forward to them.  I will share.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I want UT ears.


 

 Don't mess around with UT's ears


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Don't believe in snake oil. Top or bottom getters makes no difference. I have both and I have UT's ears.


 
  
  


suuup said:


> I want UT ears.


 

 We should have UT make a mold of his ears and then cast them so he can send all of us a pair.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Don't mess around with UT's ears


 
 LOL! You're a funny man UT. 
  
 Speaking of everyone getting the T1....... @JazzVinyl You hear that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





jerick70 said:


> We should have UT make a mold of his ears and then cast them so he can send all of us a pair.


 
 That's a brilliant. Everyone could get UT ears.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG the adapters came but the Postman left a note on my door to collect at 4pm today. That 5 hours from now !!! 
  
 Should I be happy or sad. I didn't hear the Postman knock on my door !!!
  
 Tracking number on card shows they are the adapters from Hong Kong.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> OMG the adapters came but the Postman left a note on my door to collect at 4pm today. That 5 hours from now !!!
> 
> Should I be happy or sad. I didn't hear the Postman knock on my door !!!
> 
> Tracking number on card shows they are the adapters from Hong Kong.


 
 I would complain to the Postmaster.  This is serious stuff.  They need to knock louder.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I would complain to the Postmaster.  This is serious stuff.  They need to knock louder.


 

 Of course they need to knock louder. I have a T1 on my head at loud volume !!!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Of course they need to knock louder. I have a T1 on my head at loud volume !!!


 
  
 Be careful though how you word it to the Postmaster.  Your house might end up like this.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> LOL! You're a funny man UT.
> 
> Speaking of everyone getting the T1....... @JazzVinyl You hear that?
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are instructions right on Head-fi....
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/653065/diy-custom-silicone-earmolds-for-your-favorite-universals


----------



## hpamdr

b-60 said:


> Dead Can Dance any one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 DCD was one of my favorite band, the sound is very "studio". With Elise you will notice all details of the recording and sounds effects. Enjoy !


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Be careful though how you word it to the Postmaster.  Your house might end up like this.


 
  
 That's why I keep a tiger in the house.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> That's why I keep a tiger in the house.


 

 YIKES!!!! That's one scary dog! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 In all seriousness... Good looking dog.  I'm a dog man myself.  We have two Boxers.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Dance any one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Listening to this now. Pretty funky   Thanks B-60 lol.
  
 Sound going left and right. Good massage on the ears.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Listening to this now. Pretty funky   Thanks B-60 lol.
> 
> Sound going left and right. Good massage on the ears.


 
 ENJOY IT!


----------



## jerick70

Here are my favorite canines.


----------



## B-60

jerick70 said:


> Be careful though how you word it to the Postmaster.  Your house might end up like this.
> 
> 
> Owners to be for Elise, not to worry, Lukasz is not using FedEx...lol


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  WAKE UP !!!
  
 My adapters are here at last. In 4 hours time, my EARS will test this out. Will prove whether it's more than just looks.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Here are my favorite canines.


 
 WOW.... and I was thinking of breaking into your home to get those LCD2.2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 They look very fierce. I think you need to let them listen to some calming music.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  WAKE UP !!!
> 
> My adapters are here at last. In 4 hours time, my EARS will test this out. Will prove whether it's more than just looks.


 
 I'm going to bed now, but I'm setting an alarm in 4 hours, so I can be the first to read your impressions!


----------



## UntilThen

On :-
  
 27th Oct 2015 - Elise arrived
  
 5th Jan 2016 - T1
  
 7th Jan 2016 - EL3N & C3G adapters from Mrs X
  
  
 These are important dates for my audio journey.


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  and  @CITIZENLIN   tell me more about the EL3Ns ... so I know what to expect more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This suspense is killing me. Can't believe the Postman walk away....


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> On :-
> 
> 27th Oct 2015 - Elise arrived
> 
> ...


 
 UT,
 How long it took for your Elise to come in from the day of order?
 Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> UT,
> How long it took for your Elise to come in from the day of order?
> Cheers!


 

 Place my order on 21st Aug 2015. Received Elise on 27th Oct 2015. 
  
 Just short of 2 months but seems like 2 years.
  
 B-60, it's worth selling your other stuff for Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This is not a joke.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Wow , This is one busy place. EL3N +5998 still getting better after 70 plus hours. Nice warm full body holographic sound is getting HIGH everyday since New Year Eve. EL3N makes everything and everybody sing. This combo is better than " the best seating live concert. This is THE PERFECT SOUND yet in 30 plus years of being a audio nut (yes ..I've been called that many times by families and friends). Doesn't matter what genre you are into, EL3N+5998 will make them shine.. 
  
  
 MANY MANY MANY THANKS TO @UntilThen  and @hypnos1
  
 IMO, Elise + 5998 + EL3N combo can compete(SQ)  with any other preamp under 10K usd. ...Enough said  ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  Oh yeah , perfect match for original T1.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Place my order on 21st Aug 2015. Received Elise on 27th Oct 2015.
> 
> Just short of 2 months but seems like 2 years.
> 
> B-60, it's worth selling your other stuff for Elise.


 
 I did Email Lukasz today to send me Invoice for Elise, I am that much closer to paying for it.
 I don't think I will sell that Cardas CB PC this is a very serious power cable and if I sell it I would not have another chance to get it back or justifying to spend that king of money on PC ever again, not at this time anyways,this PC sells for $1045 US at this moment.....NUTS!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Wow , This is one busy place. EL3N +5998 still getting better after 70 plus hours. Nice warm full body holographic sound is getting HIGH everyday since New Year Eve. EL3N makes everything and everybody sing. This combo is better than " the best seating live concert. This is THE PERFECT SOUND yet in 30 plus years of being a audio nut (yes ..I've been called that many times by families and friends). Doesn't matter what genre you are into, EL3N+5998 will make them shine..
> 
> 
> MANY MANY MANY THANKS TO @UntilThen  and @hypnos1
> ...


 

 Hmmm everyone is thanking UT but UT still haven't heard it !!!!!!!!
  
 Anyway your comments have just cause a stampede for Elise, EL3N, adapters and 5998.... and T1


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> I did Email Lukasz today to send me Invoice for Elise, I am that much closer to paying for it.
> I don't think I will sell that Cardas CB PC this is a very serious power cable and if I sell it I would not have another chance to get it back or justifying to spend that king of money on PC ever again, not at this time anyways,this PC sells for $1045 US at this moment.....NUTS!!!!


 

 Yay buddy !!! Congrats. $1045 for a power cord? Are you nuts? Sorry I don't believe in that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sell that power cord, buy Elise and some good tubes.  Happy dance.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Yay buddy !!! Congrats. $1045 for a power cord? Are you nuts? Sorry I don't believe in that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/cardas/products/cardas-clear-beyond-power-cord?variant=1235300415
  
 I am NUTS some times, it is only money not going to take to the other side!


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Hmmm everyone is thanking UT but UT still haven't heard it !!!!!!!!
> 
> Anyway your comments have just cause a stampede for Elise, EL3N, adapters and 5998.... and T1


 
 UT
  
 You got yourself a T1 with custom cable over the weekend? Congrats to you. BOY......You are in for a treat. Are your adapters at AU's custom? I hope you get them sooooon. Cant wait to hear your impression or go crazy like I was and still... lol


----------



## CITIZENLIN

b-60 said:


> http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/cardas/products/cardas-clear-beyond-power-cord?variant=1235300415
> 
> I am NUTS some times, it is only money not going to take to the other side!


 
@B-60
  
  
 Welcome to Elise Wonder land my fellow NUTS. I use "Synergistic Research" the whole system. I am glad I didn't sell them they were sitting in storage for almost 10 years along with the rest of the gears (amp, speakers and stand.... , Only got them out because of Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> UT
> 
> You got yourself a T1 with custom cable over the weekend? Congrats to you. BOY......You are in for a treat. Are your adapters at AU's custom? I hope you get them sooooon. Cant wait to hear your impression or go crazy like I was and still... lol


 

 Yes got a T1 2 days ago. Sounds T alright. 
  
 Adapters are waiting to be collected at Post Office in 3 hours. Postman left a card because I was bobbing my head away when he came....


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Yes got a T1 2 days ago. Sounds T alright.
> 
> Adapters are waiting to be collected at Post Office in 3 hours. Postman left a card because I was bobbing my head away when he came....


 
 Great, I am already getting excited for you. It won't disappoint you. You will love it. EL3Ns are in different league.  You will find out in few hours. Wow   finally....


----------



## jerick70

b-60 said:


> I did Email Lukasz today to send me Invoice for Elise, I am that much closer to paying for it.
> I don't think I will sell that Cardas CB PC this is a very serious power cable and if I sell it I would not have another chance to get it back or justifying to spend that king of money on PC ever again, not at this time anyways,this PC sells for $1045 US at this moment.....NUTS!!!!




Congrats B-60. You will love the Elise.

I've actually had good success with after market power cables. Not to the tune of $1000+ but a $50 Pangea Audio AC14-SE. I was surprised.


----------



## B-60

jerick70 said:


> Congrats B-60. You will love the Elise.
> 
> I've actually had good success with after market power cables. Not to the tune of $1000+ but a $50 Pangea Audio AC14-SE. I was surprised.


 
 Thank you so much, I know there is magic in Elise,I went through  so many power cords in my life ,there is lots of them that are very good value and very overpriced ones,
 Will report the progress here,
 Cheers


----------



## B-60

citizenlin said:


> @B-60
> 
> 
> Welcome to Elise Wonder land my fellow NUTS. I use "Synergistic Research" the whole system. I am glad I didn't sell them they were sitting in storage for almost 10 years along with the rest of the gears (amp, speakers and stand.... , Only got them out because of Elise.


 
 Thank you so much, Magic will Happen!!!!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> WOW.... and I was thinking of breaking into your home to get those LCD2.2 :blink:
> 
> They look very fierce. I think you need to let them listen to some calming music.




They are the best dogs. They are very obedient. The front one, Bo, looks really fierce. He's a big Teddy bear though.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> They are the best dogs. They are very obedient. The front one, Bo, looks really fierce. He's a big Teddy bear though.


 

 Bo lol. That's the name of the guy who sold me the T1. 
  
 Sorry don't mean to laugh at Bo but what a coincidence.
  
 No offence B-60. I was jus shocked at the $1000 price tag for the power cord. Don't mean to call you nuts lol. Maybe I might spend $50 on a Pangea Audio AC14-SE.
  
 Found one
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/361296375241?rmvSB=true


----------



## B-60

jerick70 said:


> They are the best dogs. They are very obedient. The front one, Bo, looks really fierce. He's a big Teddy bear though.


 
 Here is something that I pick up today at the same time as DCD......stay calm!!!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Bo lol. That's the name of the guy who sold me the T1.
> 
> Sorry don't mean to laugh at Bo but what a coincidence.
> 
> ...




Lol, that is to funny. You're quite alright laughing at that. I think it's quite hilarious too.

On another note. Were your T1s recabeled? I'm seriously think about doing the detachable cable mod. I think some good 8 core litz spocc cable would do some wonders.

You will want the SE version of that cable. It is a bit different construction.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Bo lol. That's the name of the guy who sold me the T1.
> 
> Sorry don't mean to laugh at Bo but what a coincidence.
> 
> ...


 
 No problem, I do get offended that easy, Looks like a nice power cord, I Have two Zu Audio Birth PC's and they are best value for the money IMPO!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Here is something that I pick up today at the same time as DCD......stay calm!!!


 
 Soothing music.
  
 It took 25 days for the adapters to get to me from Hong Kong.


----------



## B-60

jerick70 said:


> Lol, that is to funny. You're quite alright laughing at that. I think it's quite hilarious too.
> 
> On another note. Were your T1s recabeled? I'm seriously think about doing the detachable cable mod. I think some good 8 core litz spocc cable would do some wonders.


 
 Juicy!!!!that is the way I like it 8 core and litz, right up my alley!!!!
 I am looking to upgrade my HEX cables soon with DRAUG V2 
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Draug-occ-litz-multi-core-type-4-oppo-pm-1-2-sennheiser-hd700-audeze-lcd-3-x-xc-hifiman-he-5-9-560-hd800
  
 I think that will be very good upgrade to any HP's
 Lets go for it!!!!!


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Soothing music.
> 
> It took 25 days for the adapters to get to me from Hong Kong.


 
 It take that long or sometimes longer to Canada!


----------



## jerick70

b-60 said:


> No problem, I do get offended that easy, Looks like a nice power cord, I Have two Zu Audio Birth PC's and they are best value for the money IMPO!




The Zu PC looks really nice. It gets good reviews too. I do like the braided sleeve on the Pangea though.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Lol, that is to funny. You're quite alright laughing at that. I think it's quite hilarious too.
> 
> On another note. Were your T1s recabeled? I'm seriously think about doing the detachable cable mod. I think some good 8 core litz spocc cable would do some wonders.
> 
> You will want the SE version of that cable. It is a bit different construction.


 

 Yes my T1 has a 1.5m Litz 7N ultra pure OCC copper cable professionally installed. Using the original Neutrik jack and the connectors to the ear cups. Only the cable is replaced. Requires soldering. 
  
 There is a cable belt inside the cup that secure the connector to the ear cup. SO it's firm and tight, just like new. 
  
 I like the shorter cable and I sit close to my source. No more 10 feet cable hanging loose. Also make the headphone very light what I stand up. I've not heard with the original cable but Bo told me that after the installation, he could hear it's a different T1. Soundstage opens up, bass tightens up more and more impact, sweeter midrange and extended treble. Haha I think he was really trying to convince me that I got a good deal but I believe him.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Adapters are waiting to be collected at Post Office in 3 hours. Postman left a card because I was bobbing my head away when he came....




Yeah for adapters!!!

I am listening to my EL3N's...I finally found the time to flat black my adapters, like the adapters much better now 

It's the "thickness" of the lower midrange and on down to the bottom-est (that's a word, right) note that seems different/special in these tubes. 

Everything sounds "right" there is an evenness in the entire audible range that is impressive, no peaks and valleys in response. Think this accounts for the many "never noticed THAT before" moments. 

They have LESS gain than most of my other tubes. Far less than FDD20. i think this accounts for the reason they don't drive the 600 ohm DT-990 and sound better in my 300 ohm SENN 580's. 

You guys with easy to drive cans won't notice this lower gain situation so much, but I sure do.

The FDD20's with DT-990 are still good competition for EL3N and SENN 580's. I am not going to say the EL3N obliterate the FDD20's. I had said before as well that ECC31 is also a competitor for EL3N, the latter being more even handed and clear throughout the entire range of frequencies. 

Mine sound less different with burn in to our other favorite tubes. I do wish the had more mu (gain). And I wish they glowed. There is no glow whatsoever. 

They are great and a real bargain over ECC31 and the best sounding 6SN7's. 

Lower impedance cans are recommended however...due to the low gain factor.

They also are not like the 6N7 series where you feel like your "in the band". They are less laid back than ECC31, your back in the audience, not on stage, as with 6N7G. I thought FDD20 was the perfect blend of 6N7G excitement but laid back enough to be in the audience rather than onstage. 

EL3N are more like ECC31 in that regard but less laid back, add a dash of excitement and the better lower mids and I still think harmonics that surround the main note are heard far more clearly than other tubes..

They are fun and accurate and a little exciting but not over the top exciting...

Pink Floyd "The Wall" sounding VERY nice in them!!!

Unlike FDD20, these do reveal how well and how poorly something is mastered. Great mastering will make you sing and jump for joy. Ho-hum mastering will leave you "meph"....this accounts for H1 says "Elise, T1, EL3N and a good DAC"...


Cheers, to all.....of us LUCKY ONES!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Soothing music.
> 
> It took 25 days for the adapters to get to me from Hong Kong.




That's crazy!! I am further away and got mine in 6 business days (and it seemed like forever)


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Cheers, to all.....of us LUCKY ONES!!!!


 
 LOL I sure hope LR hasn't sold off all his other drivers at a discount. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I shall find out soon....but probably need a longer burn in time from the sound of it.
  
 Good detail writeup @JazzVinyl. Your description is always pretty spot on.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Bo told me that after the installation, he could hear it's a different T1. Soundstage opens up, bass tightens up more and more impact, sweeter midrange and extended treble. Haha I think he was really trying to convince me that I got a good deal but I believe him.




I bought SENN 580's with special after market pure silver cables and heard the same lines from my seller. I had a pair years before with stock cables...

THAT much better...?

Not so sure. 

But had a feeling that if they WERE that much better...why sell them? Hmmmmmm....


----------



## B-60

I hope that I will not offend JV here ,but I do have a bit different point of view here.
 OEM cables are never that good , and that is just cost effective to many manufacturers.By the time that they would include the 4x21 awg - occ cu litz - 24-wire (8x24awg tri multi-conductor braid structure) cable with every HP here wellllll......price goes up and maybe just maybe some of us will not hear the difference so why pay more for the cables....is that makes any sense ???


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> I hope that I will not offend JV here ,but I do have a bit different point of view here.
> OEM cables are never that good , and that is just cost effective to many manufacturers.By the time that they would include the [COLOR=222222]4x21 awg - occ cu litz - 24-wire (8x24awg tri multi-conductor braid structure) cable with every HP here wellllll......price goes up and maybe just maybe some of us will not hear the difference so why pay more for the cables....is that makes any sense ???[/COLOR]




Hello B-60...

Sure, I had a cheap pair of phones once that had pure silver cables and definitely they were miles ahead of the stock cabled pair (had both) and I have had other pairs that didn't seem benefit so much. 

So depends on the cans?


----------



## UntilThen

Personally if it were me and I had bought a brand new T1, I wouldn't recable it. I read that for the T1, Beyer got a good after market cable for it. It was specially selected. 
  
 What I like about the recabling though is the shorter length which suit me and perhaps the lighter weight. And also Bo's words will forever float over my head. I can see fairy dust floating on my music notes now LOL.
  
 Whatever it is, T1 is just so incredibly clear and detail. It's staggering.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Personally if it were me and I had bought a brand new T1, I wouldn't recable it. I read that for the T1, Beyer got a good after market cable for it. It was specially selected.
> 
> What I like about the recabling though is the shorter length which suit me and perhaps the lighter weight.




Indeed my SENN after market cable is WAY TOO long and often wish it was shorter. What impedance are the T1's?

Harder to drive than HE569? Or about the same?


----------



## UntilThen

Alright folks off I go to the Post Office for my precious adapters.


----------



## jerick70

We are all waiting with baited breath.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Alright folks off I go to the Post Office for my precious adapters. :tongue_smile:




Yeah man, Cool....!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N first impressions with 5998*
  
 I was worried it blow up my T1, so I listened with my HD650 first. 
  
 O M G ..... my HD650 sounds like my T1 now but with HD650 trademark midrange and bass. Even on the 1st song, Leonard Cohen 'In my secret life' I can hear the difference clearly.
  
 Ok...switching over to my T1 now...then HE560.
  
 No hum at all btw. Pitch black silence between songs. 
  
 Oh well...I played 'Wars of The World'....mistake...HD650 sounded *SO GOOD* I couldn't take it off yet. I simply can't. I have not heard HD650 sound this way before. This is a new headphone now. So much details, clarity and impact. It's like someone let out some serious fireworks. _Midrange grabs you by the throat_. _You are assaulted by serious bass_. Mercy me !!!
  
 Volume is only *10 o'clock and loud on HD650*.
  
 Soundstage expanded...lots. Imaging is spot on. Precision, precision .... too good to be true.
  
 Bass, glorious bass. Midrange, treble, everything, the notes are killing me not the Martians. 
  
 Richard Burton's voice is full on. The orchestra is now in full swing led by a crazed conductor. Goosebumps all over.  All in the 1st hour of listening.
  
 Ok time to finally change headphone to T1.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> *EL3N first impressions with 5998*
> 
> I was worried it blow up my T1, so I listened with my HD650 first.
> 
> ...


 
 You finally got them. Good for ya. 
  
  
  
 Happy Listening


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> You finally got them. Good for ya.
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Listening


 

 Thanks CL. I updated my previous notes. Have a look.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> *EL3N first impressions with 5998*
> 
> I was worried it blow up my T1, so I listened with my HD650 first.
> 
> ...




Congrats! These make the Elise that much better. How do they play with other tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N + 5998 with T1.*
  
 Ok this is wrong. It can't sound this good. Sound is not as full on as HD650 but the range and soundstage....hello....humungous wide. Electronic sounds darting left and right and all over my head with astonishing speed, clarity and details. This is high definition sound. Very very high. 
  
 'Wars Of The World' is a killer on this combo. I need to hug somebody, anybody. 
  
 WOW... T1 is way better than HD650 on this combo. Hairs on my hands are standing up. What spices did they put in these EL3Ns ??
  
 Midrange is king here. Treble is crystal clear. I mean real crystals. Bass is pounding at my chest. Takes the T1 Gen 1 bass to a level you'd never imagine. 
  
 Listening to Spirit of Man now... ok real goosebumps now. 
  
 Too good...speechless now.
  
 No lacking in gain on T1 here. Volume is only just under 11am and it's LOUD.
  
@DecentLevi  this combo's clarity, details, impact, soundstage, imaging, tonal balance and musicality is close to 15 out of 10. I put stock tube score at a generous 6 out of 10.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> *EL3N first impressions with 5998*
> 
> I was worried it blow up my T1, so I listened with my HD650 first.
> 
> ...


 
 Foot be tapping and head be bobbing...... No way... you are selling HD650. ...... EL3N make my 24 years old Sony MDR V6 sound so good too.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> *EL3N + 5998 with T1.*
> 
> Ok this is wrong. It can't sound this good. Sound is not as full on as HD650 but the range and soundstage....hello....humungous wide. Electronic sounds darting left and right and all over my head with astonishing speed, clarity and details. This is high definition sound. Very very high.
> 
> 'Wars Of The World' is a killer on this combo. I need to hug somebody, anybody.


 
 HAHAHA.... I was going crazy when I first heard it. Now you know I wasn't crazy... spread the joy.....


----------



## UntilThen

Midrange dominates here. I'm hoping with burn in, the treble and bass will level up. Yup this needs burn in. At the moment it's too much frontal assault.
  
 One quick test to see how it will perform with my HE560.
  
 BIG SMILE ...*sounds just as good on the HE560 at slightly above 11am*. Seems more balance on the planar magnetics but do take it with a BIG grain of salt guys. It's just the 1st hour and my ears have been assaulted from 1st the HD650 then T1, now HE560 all within one hour.
  
 Doing a quick test here to make sure this combo works well with all 3 headphones. All I can say is....hello not just well. These are different headphones now.


----------



## UntilThen

Phew... do yourself a favour. If you have Elise, *you must buy the EL3Ns and adapters.* At the moment, I'm using 5998 as power tube and it sounds amazing. I'll try other power tubes later.
  
 Folks EL3Ns is the real deal. We are so lucky to have this driver. It's simply amazing. There is no hype here. This will make your eyeballs roll 360 degrees. You will listen to music with your mouth open. Please be seated when you first listen to these tubes. It is going to surprise you from the 1st notes. Nothing, no driver tubes that I have sounded like this and I have many very good drivers. This is a big endorsement on the EL3N.
  

  
 One final word. At the moment, it does not seem as linear as the FDD20 which is ultra smooth and polish across the FR. I will take @hypnos1 word for it that with burn in this will level the playing field and pull EL3N way ahead. So I shall be listening and playing these tubes non stop for the next 6 hours and more after a short break.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm so greedy here. Swapping headphones like playing russian roulette. All 3 headphones have a different presentation now and all makes you want to dance in your chair. Head bobbing for sure. Toes moving. Fingers drumming. Shoulders doing the hunch up and down. It's very enjoyable. 
  
 Hmm listening to T1 now and already the sound is starting to sound a bit different. Midrange no longer dominates but I hear a very smooth transition from bass to midrange and treble. Very smooth. These tubes are opening up by the hour. Vocals, oh my, I'm hugging myself now. Holographic. 
  
 Report back in a few hours. I'm lost in music now. A bit teary now. How did it get so good...in the short time since I had Elise. This roller coaster never stops. Just keeps going up.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Phew... do yourself a favour. If you have Elise, *you must buy the EL3Ns and adapters.* At the moment, I'm using 5998 as power tube and it sounds amazing. I'll try other power tubes later.
> 
> Folks EL3Ns is the real deal. We are so lucky to have this driver. It's simply amazing. There is no hype here. This will make your eyeballs roll 360 degrees. You will listen to music with your mouth open. Please be seated when you first listen to these tubes. It is going to surprise you from the 1st notes. Nothing, no driver tubes that I have sounded like this and I have many very good drivers. This is a big endorsement on the EL3N.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is soooo purrrty.  Thank you for sharing your impressions!


----------



## aqsw

Got the T1s today. Put them to the test right away. 5998s and the Mazdas, which were real problematic for distortion on my lcd 2.2s and Ether c.

Well, I wish I didnt sell my Audezes. I find I just liked
 their sound better. Distortion is stll there, although it starts around 11:00, where it is loud enough already.

Very fast and clear phones though.


----------



## UntilThen

WOW I turn up volume to 12 noon with T1 and the impact is like a pair of big full range speakers inside my head. No distortion !!!! Sounds so clear even at that screaming loud volume.
  
 At loud volume, everything sounds so startlingly clear and REAL. Don't listen to Godzilla's music with this at loud volume.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> Got the T1s today. Put them to the test right away. 5998s and the Mazdas, which were real problematic for distortion on my lcd 2.2s and Ether c.
> 
> Well, I wish I didnt sell my Audezes. I find I just liked
> their sound better. Distortion is stll there, although it starts around 11:00, where it is loud enough already.
> ...


 
 Very sorry to hear that aqsw. If you really liked the Audeze sound signature, I guess T1 is for you. You should really contact Lukasz about your issues. The sooner the better! Hope it works out for you in the end buddy.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Very sorry to hear that aqsw. If you really liked the Audeze sound signature, I guess T1 is for you. You should really contact Lukasz about your issues. The sooner the better! Hope it works out for you in the end buddy.


 

 Yup @aqsw do talk to Lukasz. Let me know if you need help my friend. I won't leave you stranded.


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow, looks like you guys are havin' a virtual party on this thread with all the new startling revelations for the Elise recently! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 UT, thanks for mentioning me when you got your EL3N's. I take it they're the _worst _tubes you ever heard... right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh also I would like to say that, IMO, that possibly the best quest nowadays may be to see what cheaper tubes pair well with the EL3N's - I mean with the scarcity of the 5998, there's gotta be a cheaper alternative that can sound on-par!!! I for one, will probably never have a chance to get those tubes.
  
 Or maybe the best is quad EL's, if anyone's tried it yet?
  
 So now I've gotta start to get caught up on these 18 pages of reading from the last 2 days...


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi  I doubt quad EL3N is possible. H1 should know better.
  
 I'll be putting Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, GE 6AS7GA and RCA 6AS7G, stock Svetlana 6H13C with EL3N through their pace and provide a summary of what I think those perform in comparison to 5998. Stay tune.
  
 BUT without doubt, get these EL3Ns and adapters.
  
 I still haven't test the C3G adapters LOLOLO. And why did Mrs XuLing give me 3 C3G adapters !!! Do I use 3 C3Gs in Elise???


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> BUT without doubt, get these EL3Ns and adapters.


 
  
 Bad news, EL3N out of stock at that site.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> Bad news, EL3N out of stock at that site.


 
 Aww, I didn't even get my 2nd pair. That's too bad. Hope my 1st pair lasts a long time. Did you get a pair Oskari? Please say you got a pair.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Aww, I didn't even get my 2nd pair. That's too bad. Hope my 1st pair lasts a long time. Did you get a pair Oskari? Please say you got a pair.


 
  
 Went for a quad, have yet to receive.


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N with stock Svetlana 6H13C and T1*
  
 Mercy me !!! These sound just as good with Annie Lennox 'A Whiter Shade of Pale'. Your prayers have been answered @DecentLevi .
  
 Cheapest power tubes sounding good with EL3N. Sparkle is not lost on swapping to this stock power tube. What is going on???
  
 Confirm by listening to :-
  
 Spirit of Man - Wars of the Worlds
 In My Secret Life - Leonard Cohen
 Private Investigations - Dire Straits
  
 Just a shade less sparkle but still very enjoyable. If you don't listen first to 5998, you will love this combo.
  
 Too early to tell but with 5998, it seems too forceful with T1.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Bad news, EL3N out of stock at that site.


 

 Did LR buy all the stock? !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Good lord !!! EL3N and Svetlana 6H13C sounded better than OK. Sounded good on Private Investigations. Bass is a killer. Everything is a killer - HELP !!!
  
 Folks forget 5998. Buy some cheap 6AS7G. I'll be listening to that next...a pair of GE 6AS7G (RCA rebrand I think)
  
 Ooo yay, 'Sultan of Swings' is really swinging now.
  
*I'm not giving up my 3 pairs of EL3Ns ... evil smile here. *


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Cheapest power tubes sounding good with EL3N. Sparkle is not lost on swapping to this stock power tube. What is going on???


 
  
"The Svetlana 6N13S may sound flat if not suitably stimulated," I wrote.


----------



## UntilThen

Folks this seems like your best bet now - $70 a pair of EL3Ns NOS. Suuup, do it.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Tubes-EL3N-PHILIPS-2-Pieces-NOS-NIB-1-pair-16-available-/331644471737?hash=item4d378d09b9:g:wGAAAOSwHnFV5zle


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> "The Svetlana 6N13S may sound flat if not suitably stimulated," I wrote.


 

 Good because it's REALLY stimulated HERE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 
  
 WOW Dreams by Fleetwood Mac...the intro drums will loosen your teeth !!!
 Awww Stevie Nicks sound so seductive.
  
 Still cheap at $19.90 a pair.
  

  
 WOW Hotel California by Eagles with EL3N and 6N13S ..... you're on planet Jupiter.
  
@DecentLevi  thank you. If not for you, I'll be burning out my 5998. 
  
 Ok swapping out for my RCA 6AS7G.... the most common 6AS7G. Plenty on eBay.


----------



## UntilThen

WOW it doesn't seem to care what power tube I use. With RCA 6AS7G and EL3N, the sparkle, clarity, detail and bass is all there. Unbelievable. Driver dominance here. Powers are just side kicks ...sure seems like. Using Beyer T1.
  
 Good sound has just become affordable on Elise.
  
 Swapped to HD650...still enjoyable. Not as sharp and clear as T1 but with more reverb and nice 'full on' sound. Bass is more 'bloom'. Not the tight controlled bass experienced on the T1. Depending on your taste, both enjoyable.
  
 This is quality tube amp sound. Fast, articulate but warm and lush as well. My kind of tone.


----------



## UntilThen

Swapped to HE560 volume at 1pm now but oh me goose. Do yourself a favour, buy Elise+EL3N+'I don't care what power tubes you have' and HD650, T1 and HE560. Get all of them NOW !!!
  
 HE560 certainly needs more volume with EL3Ns. I go up to max 2pm now...no further unless I want an ambulance here. @aqsw no distortion at 2pm !!!!!!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
 2pm is with dodgy Youtube songs. 1pm (loud) for a satisfying listen through Tidal at 16/44.1khz - Hotel California !!!
  
 HE560 sounds very good with EL3N+RCA 6AS7G lol.
  
 OK sound starts to break up at 3pm....but who would listen at 3pm !!!!!  This is with HE560. Loose bass is the first thing you hear at this volume.
  
 Alright no more cranking up volume real high or my hearing will be gone.


----------



## UntilThen

3 hours 42 mins now with EL3N. I prefer T1 the most with this driver. Dinner time.
  
 Last parting thoughts... RCA 6AS7G is more boomy and flabby. I prefer the stock Svetlana 6N13S surprisingly. I'll be back later for Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, GE 6AS7GA and finally back to 5998 for a complete circle.
  
 Sorry correction on the RCA 6AS7G... I was listening to a poor recording to come to that conclusion. Now with Hotel California again, it's tight and sounds great again.


----------



## Suuup

I've been on the hunt for more artists like Mark Knopfler. During my search, I was recommended a Canadian band called Great Big Sea. It's not really the same music as what Mark Knopfler makes, but nevertheless I tried them out. Listening to their song Consequence Free, the sibilance of my T1's were simply unbearable. At that point I had the 6N7G Fivre brown-base in my Elise. Swapped them out for my ECC31. There was NO sibilance AT ALL. I expected the sibilance to be toned down somewhat, but the COMPLETE LACK of sibilance really dumbfounded me. How is something like this possible?!?!!?
  
  
 The answer, of course, is Elise. (Oh, and ECC31 + 5998)


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G with T1*
  
 Sorry to disappoint folks. Good as the Svetlana 6N13S and RCA 6AS7G are, the Chatham 6AS7G really shows them a clean pair of heels.
  
 It's so much more clearer and sweet. The other 2 power tubes seems masked and a lot warmer. Me..I prefer the breezy, fresh tone of the Chatham that still imparts warm and lushness. You might like the tone of the other 2 power tubes, which on my first listen, certainly sound marvellous. Don't let this statement deter you and make the 2 power tubes as rubbish because they are not. Remember, I'm comparing relative to each other. 
  
 Now this is really enjoyable with EL3N. 2nd only to the 5998 but I have not finished with my power tubes rotation. 
  
 LR, if you don't want your Chatham 6AS7G, do the community here a service. Sell it to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Me ... I know I'll be keeping my Chatham 6520 and 6AS7G for sure.


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  is spot on when he says the EL3N mid and bass is similar to the ECC31, except I think they are even sweeter and stronger in the EL3N. Treble and high notes replicates the C3G - no in fact treble on EL3N is better than C3G. Isn't this a miracle? 
  
 When I'm done with my power rotation, I'll flip between FDD20 and EL3N for a direct comparison. Off hand, from memory, FDD20 is more laid back. EL3N has more sparkles across the whole FR. There is no question which I prefer - EL3N of course. This is super candy.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl  is spot on when he says the EL3N mid and bass is similar to the ECC31, except I think they are even sweeter and stronger in the EL3N. Treble and high notes replicates the C3G - no in fact treble on EL3N is better than C3G. Isn't this a miracle?
> 
> When I'm done with my power rotation, I'll flip between FDD20 and EL3N for a direct comparison. Off hand, from memory, FDD20 is more laid back. EL3N has more sparkles across the whole FR. There is no question which I prefer - EL3N of course. This is super candy.


 
  
*GREAT NEWS,UT**!!!*...Bad night, I'm afraid...sorry for the late catch-up...more in an hour, or so...loving your joy already, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 CHEERS!!!


----------



## UntilThen

No worries @hypnos1 take care. I'm OVERJOYED lol.
  
 Swapping to EL3N and Mullard 6080 now.
  
 Omg EL3N and Mullard 6080. I'm melting. Is there such thing as too sweet candy? This is the opposite extreme compared to the EL3N and RCA 6AS7G combo.
  
 I like this a lot. Give me more EL3N + Mullard 6080 candy. I'll worry about the dentist later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'M IN LOVE WITH THIS COMBO but it's 3rd placing behind 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G for me. Very close with Chatham 6080...too close for comfort. Could have been a tie depending on the songs and genre. 
  
 Wow this songstress sounds so sweet. My wife better not hear this. 
  

  
 Private Investigation by Dire Straits sounds amazing on this combo. Those guitars are metallic to the core. Sound is REAL. Goodness me, the kick drums and toms.


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N and GE 6AS7GA with T1*
  
 This is as good as Chatham and Mullard in the EL3N combo. Ridiculous. For the 1st time, I've total respect for GE 6AS7GA from Parts Express. I don't know if it's still available but it was $11 each when I bought it from there.
  
 EL3N just seems to lift the game of every power tubes, especially so this GE 6AS7GA pair. I'm in love with the sound. This seems to straddle the middle ground between the Chatham and the Mullard. All 3 are very enjoyable with EL3N. Really if you have not heard 5998, you're not missing anything. This is high fidelity sound.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> No worries @hypnos1 take care. I'm OVERJOYED lol.
> 
> Swapping to EL3N and Mullard 6080 now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...can settle down to a bit more 'composure' now..._*me*_, that is...don't kill_* your*_ excitement just yet! (not 'til your poor ticker can't take any more, anyway lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Thank goodness the _looong_ wait was worth it, no?!
  
 Yeah...Elise + EL3N + 5998 (or GECs/Chathams) + T1s + Dire Straits/Jeff Lynn's 'War of the Worlds' = _*mind-blowing bliss!!!*_







 And just wait 'til you hear a first rate recording (preferably hi-res!) of a *big* orchestral piece...you are _*right there*_ in the concert hall...like never before.
  
 Now then, I know I've said this many times already (as you know also!), but those areas you mentioned earlier re. balance etc. _*will*_ change (for the better!) for a good while yet - @CITIZENLIN mentioned 70hrs, and still improving...mine continued to do so even after that, lol! (I can only surmise that @JazzVinyl  - are you listening, B?! - needs to get those T1s like _*right now!*_, if he isn't getting the same as CL and me, LOL!).
 That tremendous bass gets even tighter (_*feel*_ it in your bones job); the mids ease off a bit (but lose _*nothing*_); s/stage keeps opening further; treble _*really*_ finds its place and presence; detail increases across the *entire* FR, and the most perfect balance and cohesion appears as if by magic. In other words, UT..._*you've a good way to go yet, mon ami!*_







  
 So I - nay, _*we!*_ - look forward eagerly to your findings as time goes on...(not that we aren't loving them already!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....Keep 'em comin'!
  
 ps. Don't forget...letting those tubes cool off a while (plus your ears, lol!) then coming back to them develops things even quicker!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...pps. _*If you can manage it!!!*_


----------



## UntilThen

The EL3Ns are morphing by the minute. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Each time I swapped my headphones ( between T1, HE560 and HD650) I go WOW. Seriously any of these headphones sounds great with EL3Ns and the power tubes I'm stepping through now. 
 I've not heard HD650 sound this good. It's incredible. It's open up real crystal clear like it's been dormant for ages. Prior to EL3N, I've always felt the HD650 trailing the T1 badly but now it's getting closer for the 1st time. I still prefer T1 the most though as it has control, precision and punch. It's like a deadly pugilist. One finger punch. Doesn't need a sledge hammer. 
  
 Urghh all 3 headphones sound good with EL3Ns... I've no doubt other headphones will sound good too.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright will write this summary and put it out of the way. I killed many birds with one stone by burning in the EL3Ns and listening it with all my power tubes. There is not a single power tube that I dislike with EL3N. All sound good but the degree of goodness varies obviously. 5998 is still miles ahead I'm afraid. As stated earlier, it doesn't make the others bad. It's just relative to each other. Chatham, Mullard and GE 6AS7GA sounded very good too but trails 5998 by quite a margin. At the bottom rung are the RCA 6AS7G and Svetlana 6N13S but again I repeat, that does not make them bad. EL3N has lifted the performance of all power tubes here so that even the Svetlana sound good. 
  
 This gives you an idea what to expect with these power tubes.
  

Tung Sol 5998
Chatham 6AS7G / 6520
Mullard 6080
GE 6AS7GA
RCA 6AS7G
Svetlana 6N13S
  
 With these out of the way, I'll settle down to enjoying my music with EL3N and 5998, rotating through the headphones, at the same time burning in the EL3Ns more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@DecentLevi  this is especially for you. Any of these combinations will turn Elise into a high end tube amp sound. So rich in details and clarity.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Got the T1s today. Put them to the test right away. 5998s and the Mazdas, which were real problematic for distortion on my lcd 2.2s and Ether c.
> 
> Well, I wish I didnt sell my Audezes. I find I just liked
> their sound better. Distortion is stll there, although it starts around 11:00, where it is loud enough already.
> ...


 
  
 There's definitely _*something*_ very wrong *somewhere* there, aqsw...assuming you've checked all source lines, then it would appear something is amiss with the amp...needs checking out, methinks. Wish you all the best with it, and that you can soon be getting the _*proper*_ sound she's capable of with these T1s, lol! (but they are quite a different signature to the LCDs, from my own limited listening. However, from what UT says, the EL3Ns may well bring them closer - except you've got rid of them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Good luck, anyway...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Alright will write this summary and put it out of the way. I killed many birds with one stone by burning in the EL3Ns and listening it with all my power tubes. There is not a single power tube that I dislike with EL3N. All sound good but the degree of goodness varies obviously. 5998 is still miles ahead I'm afraid. As stated earlier, it doesn't make the others bad. It's just relative to each other. Chatham, Mullard and GE 6AS7GA sounded very good too but trails 5998 by quite a margin. At the bottom rung are the RCA 6AS7G and Svetlana 6N13S but again I repeat, that does not make them bad. EL3N has lifted the performance of all power tubes here so that even the Svetlana sound good.
> 
> This gives you an idea what to expect with these power tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That looks like a pretty solid (and understandable) sort of assessment, UT...and well done for covering such ground for people, so soon already. You now deserve some quality listening time, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Don't know if you caught my ps's to my last reply to you, but *if you can*, remember to slip in a few 'cooling off' sessions during your periods of bliss! CHEERS!


----------



## Lord Raven

Congratulations UT, you succeeded in acquiring the EL3N adapters before I did  I just tracked mine and they are still riding a camel in the desert, still 1400 KMs away from me LOL
  
 Your impressions are killing me, I wish to get my adapters asap, at least before I go on vacation 
  
 You have a perfect plan to ruin my experience with HD600, if I hear T1 with EL3N I am sure I will never like my HD600 again LOL
  
 Regarding Chatham 6AS7G, I am ready to take orders LOL Like Peter haha


----------



## Suuup

They canceled my T5p order! Apparently they don't stock those anymore. They did, however, offer me a T5p Gen 2 -- And for the same price as I would've payed for the Gen 1! That is pretty impressive I think. I didn't even know there was a Gen 2.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Is it safe to use the EL3N/Adapters in the Power slots?

FDD20/EL3N comes to mind


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Is it safe to use the EL3N/Adapters in the Power slots?
> 
> FDD20/EL3N comes to mind


 
  
 Hi JV...really not too sure, I'm afraid, given as drivers they're wired in _series_...and pentodes, of course....
  
 Can't remember if mordy once tried the adapted C3gs in the back, or not...but which/wherever, they didn't work lol!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello H1 - be brave 

They work as powers, just fine. 

Joybringers as drivers/EL3N as powers....

Interesting, and GOOD 

Each tube has opposing characteristics. Opposites, attract


----------



## JazzVinyl

C3g as drivers paired with EL3N as powers, also very interesting


----------



## JazzVinyl

ECC31 as drivers paired with EL3N powers...

Also good stuff 

So far, Joybringers/EL3N fling the most joy 

Cheers to us, the LUCKY ONES!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I do rather like my GM rebranded 6N7G's paired with EL3N powers as well. 

UT has lots of work to do, with his many wonderful 6N7G and 6A6 variants. 

How fun is this? 

Cheers, lucky peoples....


----------



## Suuup

@JazzVinyl You are crazy! We will never get through all the different permutations of tube possibilities! 
  
@UntilThen You hear this? You are not done rolling yet. You have to try all your drivers as powers also! Please don't use your powers as drivers though, as the driver socket doesn't supply enough current to drive them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

How about EL3N as drivers, and GM rebranded 6N7G as powers?

Yep! Works fine, and sounds great 

Mix it up, y'all


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> @JazzVinyl
> You are crazy! We will never get through all the different permutations of tube possibilities!
> 
> @UntilThen
> You hear this? You are not done rolling yet. You have to try all your drivers as powers also! Please don't use your powers as drivers though, as the driver socket doesn't supply enough current to drive them.




Hello Suuup...

If you have Ms Xu Ling's 6SN7 external power sockets (the ones she made for Mordy's 6BL7's)....then all combos are possible


----------



## JazzVinyl

I like my GM rebranded 6N7G's in the power slots....bass slam and treble liveliness...EL3N exceeds in bass and lower mid thickness...it's a great combo. 

Cheers!!!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I like my GM rebranded 6N7G's in the power slots....bass slam and treble liveliness...EL3N exceeds in bass and lower mid thickness...it's a great combo.
> 
> Cheers!!!


 
  
 Hey JV....this is getting _*CRAZY, man!!!...*_what have you started here, lol??!!!...congrats on the bravery! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but EL3N + GECs + T1s give me all I could ever dream of, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello H1...

I hear ya on "satisfied"...I was too, with FDD20/5998/DT-990 - look what you started 






Cheers!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Mix and match? Works? Ha ha ha ha ha..... easy guys. I just woke up from sleep. Is this a dream?
  
 Let me try that combo JV and see. I need to order 2 more EL3N adapters to try quad EL3N.
  
*EL3N + Philco 6N7G as power tubes...wow JV isn't kidding. This works well. LOL*


----------



## UntilThen

This is crazy I'll be tube rolling like there's no tomorrow. What have you got us into JV? Dream come true. Is there no end to Elise surprises. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 There's just as much power using Philco 6N7G as power. Volume at 11am using T1 .... same. 12 noon almost kill me. This really sparkles. EL3N + Philco 6N7G.
  
 What has Henryk build us here? We can use ANY combinations. Madness or genius.
  
 Someone pinch me so I know I'm not dreaming.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> This is crazy I'll be tube rolling like there's no tomorrow. What have you got us into JV? Dream come true. Is there no end to Elise surprises.
> 
> There's just as much power using Philco 6N7G as power. Volume at 11am using T1 .... same. 12 noon almost kill me. This really sparkles. EL3N + Philco 6N7G.
> 
> What has Henryk build us here? We can use ANY combinations. Madness or genius.



Try EL3N as powers and FDD20 as drivers. How does that sound?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Try EL3N as powers and FDD20 as drivers. How does that sound?


 

 At this rate, I'll be trying light bulbs !!!
  
 Ok...coming up as per your suggestions.
  
 Is this what @hypnos1 means by having short breaks being beneficial to the EL3N break ins? Well lots of short breaks with tubes interchange.
  
 My table is full of tubes !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Mix and match? Works? Ha ha ha ha ha..... easy guys. I just woke up from sleep. Is this a dream?
> 
> Let me try that combo JV and see. I need to order 2 more EL3N adapters to try quad EL3N.
> 
> *EL3N + Philco 6N7G as power tubes...wow JV isn't kidding. This works well. LOL*




I'm at work...glad UT is up, to "continue duties" 

Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

Well I'll be doggone !!!! This sounds great !!! Volume at 11am with T1.
  
@JazzVinyl you started a revolution !!!
  

  
 Dancing at 3:14am...hope the wife doesn't find me in this state. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Hive five guys. We've broken the logic threshold !!!!!!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Well I'll be doggone !!!! This sounds great !!! Volume at 11am with T1.
> 
> @JazzVinyl
> you started a revolution !!!
> ...



4 x marshmallows. Who would've thought.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Well I'll be doggone !!!! This sounds great !!! Volume at 11am with T1.
> 
> @JazzVinyl
> you started a revolution !!!




I did try this combo this morning, too, before leaving for work and I liked it, too!!

Talk about power/control imaging and clarity....


----------



## UntilThen

HELP GUYS I NEED TO HUG SOMEONE HERE.
  
 Definitely going to try quad EL3Ns but with sound this good across all this combinations, I wonder if that is necessary.
  
 One thing is known, EL3N as power tube works !!!
  
 Save your money ..forget 5998 and GEC 6AS7G LOLOLOLO.
  
 Elise is a must buy tube amp now. How is this possible?
  
 Precision, clarity and details in this FDD20 / EL3N combo with T1.
  
 Volume up one notch to 12noon for T1, instead of the usual 11am. Same impact and musicality !!! Colour me impressed !!!
  
 No hum or any noise on my setup guys with this adapters galore combo and cables running everywhere.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 so we've strapped triodes as power tube? How does this work? It does !!!
  
 FDD20 / EL3N is so vibrant and lively !!!
  
 Folks we need to come together for an Elise convention and I suggest Sydney. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I bet I can use EL3N as powers and any 6N7G or 6A6 as drivers and it still sounds gorgeous.
  
 Trying next.
  
 I'll try not to use 12V if I can help it.
  
 Welcome to the School of Crazy Tube Rolling.


----------



## UntilThen

*Mazda 6N7G and EL3N as power tubes with T1*
  
 Another crazy sounding combo. We've struck jackpot guys. Cheers to all Elise owners and would be owners. You have no idea my joy right now !!!
 I'm so grateful now... so humble .. so happy... all this is happening.
  
 Sorry for the crappy hastily taken photo. Too excited.
  
 ps.. an amazing thing here...you're encouraged to play at louder volume because it sounds even better. Look after your ears though. Listen responsibly.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> ECC31 as drivers paired with EL3N powers...
> 
> Also good stuff
> 
> ...


 
 I have to agree there. Mazda / EL3N is a potent combination.  Listening to some quality alac recordings on Audirvana Plus now.
  
 Jennifer Warnes - Famous Blue Raincoat album. Fabulous. Drums hits so hard and tight. Volume at 12noon.
  
*EL3Ns as power tubes has my stamp of approval.*


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> At this rate, I'll be trying light bulbs !!!
> 
> Ok...coming up as per your suggestions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ye Gods, UT...do you _ever_ sleep, lol?!...boy, you won't be getting _any_ now, thanks to JV!!!
  
 ps.  Please be careful with the changes...make sure those caps are well emptied first!!
  


untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 so we've strapped triodes as power tube? How does this work? It does !!!
> 
> FDD20 / EL3N is so vibrant and lively !!!
> 
> ...


 
  
*CRAZY?!...*I bet that's the _least_ we're being called by any 'aficionados' looking in from elsewhere, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(reminds me of the madness (and raised eyebrows) we enjoyed over at the LDTube Rolling Guide!!!). But if it works, don't knock it is my motto!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Goodness knows what poor Lukasz is goin' to make of _this__!!! _But what a thoroughly _*amazing*_ machine we have! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. As another 'taster' - with further burn-in yet, you will hear note decay and reverb like you would never believe...this should also be a good factor in assessing the different combos, methinks...(I am pitying your poor ears already, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...exaltation *and* pain...joy _*and*_ punishment - the die-hard tube-rollers lot in life, no?).
  
 pps.  Who'd have thought triode-strapped pentodes could be taking over from what the Feliks guys spent a great deal of time and brain-power originally configuring for?...at _*my*_ request - I feel so *guilty!!!*  But so long as things work, and don't cause any harm, then this is all very useful info for their R&D, lol!


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1...
> 
> I hear ya on "satisfied"...I was too, with FDD20/5998/DT-990 - look what you started
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV...and just where is it going to *end*, lol??!!!....CHEERS indeed!!...with early deafness for _someone_ here perhaps?!...I sincerely hope not...


----------



## UntilThen

Alas my family wants me to go to the movies tonight again. See The Revenant - Leonardo DiCaprio. 
  
 But I'm so engrossed here !!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> ps. As another 'taster' - with further burn-in yet, *you will hear note decay and reverb like you would never believe*...this should also be a good factor in assessing the different combos, methinks...(I am pitying your poor ears already, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I'm paying attention to attack, sustain and decay. It's pretty good now with Mazda 6N7G and EL3N.... what would it be like with more burn in?
  
 Gosh the high notes. Is there any higher than this? Bass impact is less with EL3N as power...but otherwise clinical and controlled. Maybe too early to tell as my EL3N is less than 12 hours of play time.
  
 Change to HD650 and it's magic with Mazda and EL3N. Wow hang on to your HD650 for dear life guys. It rocks with EL3N. Treble is extended and clear and bass is impactful. Very nice reverb !!! Some serious vocals here.
  
 Tennessee Waltz by Alan Taylor and Chris Jones. Simply high fidelity sound. With HD650. I will not change my headphones lineup or any of my tubes. This is perfect. So many combinations here and different sound signatures.
  
 With HE560 and EL3Ns as powers, it's not a very good match. Volume needs to go up to 3pm and a little occasional buzz on the right driver. I will not recommend HE560 with this combo. Stick to T1 and HD650 and all is well.
  
 HE560 is inefficient and EL3N gain is a bit low for it.
  
 Back to T1 and it's perfect at 11am. Precision and control. Power aplenty with EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Check point at 4:37am on the 8th Jan 2016.
  
 Beyer T1 and HD650 with Elise+EL3N+various combination of power and driver tubes sounds amazing. HE560 sounds good with EL3N as driver and a 'proper' power tube.
  
 We have a winner. Looking forward to seeing you guys impressions when you get EL3N and adapters.
  
 Cheers  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 UT
  
 Time for me to try the 'new' C3G adapters lol.


----------



## UntilThen

*C3G and EL3N with T1*
  
 Another winning combo. Crystal clear. Superb imaging and transparent. If you crave details, this is the combo. Bass is impactful too and in quality abundance. Listening to Billie Jean by Michael Jackson  Amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Solid bass !!!
  
 C3G adapters pin clamps are a bit tight so careful when inserting the tubes there. I loosen a bit with a small flat screwdriver on the adapters pin holes...just insert it in gently. C3G sockets works just as well as H1's superb adapters. 
  
 Guys ... C3G and EL3N...highly recommended.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Ye Gods, UT...do you _ever_ sleep, lol?!...boy, you won't be getting _any_ now, thanks to JV!!!
> 
> ps.  Please be careful with the changes...make sure those caps are well emptied first!!
> 
> ps. As another 'taster' - with further burn-in yet, you will hear note decay and reverb like you would never believe...this should also be a good factor in assessing the different combos, methinks...(I am pitying your poor ears already, lol!  ...exaltation *and* pain...joy _*and*_ punishment - the die-hard tube-rollers lot in life, no?).




I was going to say that Reverb from the EL3N's are *SUPERB* in the powers position with 6N7G as drivers, I noted that this morning and I loved it...!!!

Poor UT, will get no where *NEAR* enough sleep 
I'm *SORRY* UT!!

When I first heard the EL3N, I thought to myself "this sound will make great *POWER* tubes"

LOL

And so it does!!!

We are the *LUCKY ONES*!!!

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you @hypnos1 for your work on EL3N to get it going and to provide the pins connections for EL3N and C3g.
  
 Thank you Mrs Xu Ling for getting the EL3N and C3G adapters right and in such good gold quality. Ceramic stuff. Excellent.
  
*Thanks JV for thinking of using EL3Ns as power tubes and have the courage to just try it. It works brilliantly.*
  
 What more can I say. Speechless. !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@JazzVinyl  you read my mind just as I was typing this, you said the same thing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *Guys ... C3G and EL3N...highly recommended.*


*


I liked it too...

7N7 As drivers and EL3N as Powers....also great 

*


----------



## UntilThen

I'm ordering 2 more EL3N adapters. I have to try quad EL3Ns.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm ordering 2 more EL3N adapters. I have to try quad EL3Ns.




You *GO* UT


----------



## UntilThen

OMG who ask Mrs Xu Ling to do this? 
  
   
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB
  
@hypnos1  can we use this? Dual EL3N to one 6SN7 socket. How would this work?
  
 I'm not touching this LOL !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> OMG who ask Mrs Xu Ling to do this?  Can we use this? Dual EL3N to one 6SN7 socket. How would this work?
> 
> I'm not touching this LOL !!!




WOW!!! Not sure there is enough room to use "4 as powers"...maybe "4 as drivers", though!!

That's *WILD*!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> WOW!!! Not sure there is enough room to use "4 as powers"...maybe "4 as drivers", though!!
> 
> That's *WILD*!!


 

 OK SEE YOU !!! I'm out of here. This is getting too wild for me.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm REALLY loving C3G and EL3N with T1. You can say I'm happily contented. Make that crazily contented. Thanks to whoever invented tubes.
  
 Thanks FELIKS AUDIO. You're no idea what you have created here for $649. Have you? Are all these combinations supposed to work? I'm answering my own questions !!!!  YES OF COURSE. They work as clear as daylight.
  
 Thanks Lukasz. Please convey my thanks and grateful appreciations to your Dad. I really do. Thank you.
  
 ps...I hope you have the time to read these postings and incorporate them into Elise Mk 2. EL3N to fit into Elise without adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm REALLY loving C3G and EL3N with T1. You can say I'm happily contented. Make that crazily contented. Thanks to whoever invented tubes.
> 
> Thanks FELIKS AUDIO. You're no idea what you have created here for $649. Have you? Are all these combinations supposed to work? I'm answering my own questions !!!!  YES OF COURSE. They work as clear as daylight.
> 
> ...




Going home for lunch in a little bit - going to give that combo another spin-a-rama


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Going home for lunch in a little bit - going to give that combo another spin-a-rama


 

 You ain't going back to work ho ho ho. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Wow Elise is COOL to touch. With C3G and EL3N. Hardly any warmth. Even 'transformer' is cool.
  
 I like it so much I don't think I'll change the tubes...C3G and EL3N getting better by the minute. Yes good with HD650 as well. This is seriously good. Is there any other 'good' ?
 WOW volume approaching 12noon for HD650 with these tubes and the heavens opens...
  
 HD650 is king now. Price of HD650 has just doubled !!!  Have you ever heard HD650 top end sounding like this? Move aside T1...let the Senn show you who's BOSS.
 SO this is what they mean when the say HD650 sounds great and scales very well with the best amplification. This is it...ladies and gentlemen.
  
 HD650 with Elise+C3G+EL3N = crazily good or your money back. Head bobbing non stop since 4am.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> You ain't going back to work ho ho ho.




I wish!

I owe, I owe...so off to work, I go


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I wish!
> 
> I owe, I owe...so off to work, I go


 

 I ain't answering my agent's calls lol. I have a 'GONE FISHING' voice recorded message on my mobile phone when the incoming call is my agent. 
  
 I'm currently contracted to tube rolling.


----------



## UntilThen

WOW WOW WOW ...just buy HD650 and Elise + C3G + EL3N and live happily ever after. I'm going nuts with this music.


----------



## UntilThen

Along with the adapters that came from Mrs Xu Ling, she also slipped a note inside that shows the pins connections I gave her from H1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 She followed it to the letter !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> OMG who ask Mrs Xu Ling to do this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...have a sneaky suspicion this may possibly be for an amp beginning with *G?*....now if you (or @JazzVinyl) are feeling *really* brave, this might just be _killer_ in the power seat, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







??...Edit...but Lukasz would wash his hands of you, I'm sure!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
_*I DARE YOU!!!  *_








...(yes JV...._if_ they fit!...).


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Along with the adapters that came from Mrs Xu Ling, she also slipped a note inside that shows the pins connections I gave her from H1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank Heavens for that, UT...looks like she's done a great job - long may she remain in business, lol!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...have a sneaky suspicion this may possibly be for an amp beginning with *G?*....now if you (or @JazzVinyl) are feeling *really* brave, this might just be _killer_ in the power seat, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And guess what?? I have six EL3Ns ...perfect !!!  2 as drivers and 4 as powers. I have such intuitions !!! So smart LOL.
  
 You're right about how this originated.
  
 Crikey they are $37.50 for one and I'd need 2 !!!
  
 BUT why do we need 4 powers !!! Right now it sounds too good already. Anymore and I have to go into rehab...head-fi withdrawal.


----------



## UntilThen

T1 back in pilot mode with C3G and EL3N. This is sword flying through air and slicing leaves as it travels. This is like a hot knife going through butter. This is attack, sustain and decay like you never know before. This is about precision and control. This is high notes at it's purest. So sweet. 
  
 I really enjoy this. Clinical and in total control. A heart surgeon that knows what he's doing.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> And guess what?? I have six EL3Ns ...perfect !!!  2 as drivers and 4 as powers. I have such intuitions !!! So smart LOL.
> 
> You're right about how this originated.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You do realise you now have a *mammoth* task ahead...giving _full_ comparison of _all_ these combinations, lol! But your reference _must_ be EL3N drivers and 5998 powers, of course...and _extended_ listening sessions/varied genres/different HPs with _each_ of the combos, etc etc...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!!
  
 POOR FELLOW!!!...(but don't blame me, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> You do realise you now have a *mammoth* task ahead...giving _full_ comparison of _all_ these combinations, lol! But your reference _must_ be EL3N drivers and 5998 powers, of course...and _extended_ listeniing sessions/varied genres/different HPs with _each_ of the combos, etc etc...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 NO...I ain't going to document anything because it will drive me crazy. The permutations are greater than a Rubik's cube. Spare me the agony. My advice would be roll a different combo each day using EL3N as either driver or power. Guaranteed to work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's daybreak now... my better half will pop into my man cave soon and will give me a look that says....haven't you been sleeping? My reply...no my dear...these combos are driving me nuts !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Home for lunch...and peoples...please there really *IS* only *ONE* to *BLAME* for all of this...

Tried a bunch of unconventional combinations in several configurations.... 

Now study this picture:




Cause this WINS!!!!

*H1*.....*H1*....blaming *H1* 

Cheers to us!! The *LUCKY ONES*!!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Tried a bunch of unconventional combinations in several configurations....
> 
> Now study this picture:
> 
> Cause this WINS!!!!


 
 What? You switch my configuration? Front to back? Let me try..... omg it's daybreak and I have Panda eyes.


----------



## UntilThen

WOW.. this is it. EL3N as drivers and C3G as power tubes. So much more gain and power now. Bet my HE560 will work now. Be right back !!!
  
 YES YES YES 
  
 HE560 sounds lovely and loud now at 11am.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Home for lunch...and peoples...please there really *IS* only *ONE* to *BLAME* for all of this...
> 
> Tried a bunch of unconventional combinations in several configurations....
> 
> ...


 
  
_*WHAT ON EARTH, JV??!!...*_the C3gs _*do*_ work OK as powers?...you've just sent me irretrievably _*over the edge!*_ Now this I've _*gotta*_ try, lol!...Actually, it does make sense having the EL3Ns still in the driving seat - that usually is the most important element...(so they say! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 WELL DONE! once more...between you and UT, folks are now going to be spinning around in _all_ directions,lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...what are they to do, poor (LUCKY) things?!...so _*I*_ shall blame _*you two!!!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(am now in need of a _very_ stiff drink!)...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> ...(am now in need of a _very_ stiff drink!)...


 
 Yes pour me a double scotch. HE560 works like a charm now with EL3N as driver and C3G as power. 11am and it's loud. No more driver breakup or distortion as before. 
  
 This combo is amazing !!! How many times did I say amazing since 4am? It's 7:10am now.
  
 I endorsed this combo. Get C3G and EL3N with Elise. That's all you need. Seems like we don't need 5998 anymore.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yes pour me a double scotch. HE560 works like a charm now with EL3N as driver and C3G as power. 11am and it's loud. No more driver breakup or distortion as before.
> 
> This combo is amazing !!! How many times did I say amazing since 4am? It's 7:10am now.


 
  
 Hey you guys...with what these GEC CV2523s cost me, can I even _dare_ to try this?...are you _completely_ intent on me falling headlong into total oblivion, lol?!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...*obviously!!!...*





...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hey you guys...with what these GEC CV2523s cost me, can I even _dare_ to try this?...are you _completely_ intent on me falling headlong into total oblivion, lol?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't worry H, I'll take those off of your hands. No problem!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Don't worry H, I'll take those off of your hands. No problem!


 
  
 But I love them _*so much*_, S...this could break my heart, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey you guys...with what these GEC CV2523s cost me, can I even _dare_ to try this?...are you _completely_ intent on me falling headlong into total oblivion, lol?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Try it H1. This is THE CHOSEN ONE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Triode-strapped pentodes both front and back = WINNER. 
  
 Everything is there. Clear high notes, sexy midrange and earth shattering bass.
  
 I don't feel I miss the 5998 with this combo. Trying all 3 headphones now...
  
 Wow with T1 it's crystal clear. So transparent.
  
 Try this


----------



## Suuup

@UntilThen About the double adapter Mrs Xu Ling made. When triode-strapping the pentode, the final product becomes a triode. What we normally run in Elise is double-triodes. When you run 2x EL3N, you effectively get a double-triode EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Try it H1. This is THE CHOSEN ONE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
*CRAZY, CRAZY, CRAZY**!!*...goodness knows what the 'boffins' are gonna say about all this - I'm sure there's going to be a good deal of head scratching on the cards..._*love it!!*_


----------



## Suuup

So, the store where I ordered my T5p cancelled the order. They sent me an email, explaining that they didn't stock the T5p anymore, as it's being replaced by the T5p Gen 2 in a month. They DID, hoever, offer me a T5p Gen 2 for the same price, as I would've payed for the Gen 1. So now I'm getting a T5p Gen 2 for real cheap! It's not even out yet. This store sure has good customer service.
  
 Oh, and coincidentally, one out of their 2 stores in Denmark is located 500m from where I live.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Study this via the new configuration of the combo: EL3N/C3gS:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSOL2ym99Bw[/VIDEO]

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> So, the store where I ordered my T5p cancelled the order. They sent me an email, explaining that they didn't stock the T5p anymore, as it's being replaced by the T5p Gen 2 in a month. They DID, hoever, offer me a T5p Gen 2 for the same price, as I would've payed for the Gen 1. So now I'm getting a T5p Gen 2 for real cheap! It's not even out yet. This store sure has good customer service.
> 
> Oh, and coincidentally, one out of their 2 stores in Denmark is located 500m from where I live.




Lucky DOG, Suuup!!!!

Wowzers! Congrats!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> *CRAZY, CRAZY, CRAZY**!!*...goodness knows what the 'boffins' are gonna say about all this - I'm sure there's going to be a good deal of head scratching on the cards..._*love it!!*_ :wink_face:




He he he he


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> He he he he


 
  
 Ain't it fun though, being 'trailblazers'...even if half the time we may not _appear_ to know what the devil we're talking about, lol?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> @UntilThen About the double adapter Mrs Xu Ling made. When triode-strapping the pentode, the final product becomes a triode. What we normally run in Elise is double-triodes. When you run 2x EL3N, you effectively get a double-triode EL3N.


 

@hypnos1  can you confirm this? I think Mrs X wouldn't have done any special pin connections here or you think she did? Well I wrote to her and ask some questions. Waiting for reply.
  
 I need some assurance that this 'could' work for us as double power tubes. Your thoughts Obi Wan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before this Jedi does some free fall diving. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to know if the parachutes will work at 500 metres. Or will I hit the asphalt like an egg !!!


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  have you tried EL3N as driver and C3G as powers yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is the point of no return I must warn you. Cross this roll and you're on the other side. I leave you to find out whether it's the light or dark side. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do it and send the GEC 6AS7G to me for safe keeping.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  can you confirm this? I think Mrs X wouldn't have done any special pin connections here or you think she did?
> 
> I need some assurance that this 'could' work for us as double power tubes. Your thoughts Obi Wan


 
  
 Suuup is absolutely right...in effect our C3gs and EL3Ns are feeding just _one _of the 6SN7's, or 6AS7G's two triodes, so 2 of each strapped pentodes will therefore feed _both_ triodes. Now this could well result in *too much* gain and gm (transconductance), and send the operating points _way_ out... *OR*, given how this amp seems to be working miracles galore, _*might*_ just confound once again and deliver even more available power and dynamics...who is brave enough to try this out?...the $64, 000 question?...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Suuup is absolutely right...in effect our C3gs and EL3Ns are in effect feeding just _one _of the 6SN7's, or 6AS7G's two triodes, so 2 of each strapped pentodes will therefore feed _both_ triodes. Now this could well result in *too much* gain and gm (transconductance), and send the operating points _way_ out... *OR*, given how this amp seems to be working miracles galore, _*might*_ just confound once again and deliver even more available power and dynamics...who is brave enough to try this out?...the $64, 000 question?...CHEERS!


 

 We're going to draw sticks amongst 3 of us. Whoever gets the shortest stick will do it. Or should we get Lukasz to try it hehehe.
  
 As said I see no reason to try four EL3N as power tubes. What I hear now from EL3N as driver and C3G as power is end game or close to it. Have the HD650 on now with it. Amazing. I'm SOLD.
  
 All 3 headphones works wonders with this combo.
  
 Unless you want to drive a HE-6. wakiki


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  have you tried EL3N as driver and C3G as powers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As usual, being without a mancave I must, alas, wait for my beloved to hit the sack and thus free the lounge, so that I have _total_ peace...hence the midnight missives, lol!
  
 But I shall now go dig out my C3gs in readiness...but my hands are shaking already!
  
 And sorry - for you too, Suuup! - but if worse comes to worse, I shall mount my GECs on the wall...just to stare at their beauty, lol...and reminisce!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> As usual, being without a mancave I must, alas, wait for my beloved to hit the sack and thus free the lounge, so that I have _total_ peace...hence the midnight missives, lol!
> 
> But I shall now go dig out my C3gs in readiness...but my hands are shaking already!
> 
> And sorry - for you too, Suuup! - but if worse comes to worse, I shall mount my GECs on the wall...just to stare at their beauty, lol...and reminisce!!


 

 I seriously warn you ...this combo is staggeringly good. I'm going to A/B with EL3N and 5998 shortly. BUT this sounds heavenly now.


----------



## UntilThen

Amazing ...just tried EL3N and 5998. Same sonic experience as EL3N and C3G. Even gain appears to be the same. My volume knob remains the same. Shudders !
  
 I need to go back and forth few times..just to be sure. Stay tune for 'my' findings.
  
 Ok I'm convinced now we've a power tube to rival the 5998. Behold the diminutive C3G that can last 10,000 hours. My confirmation came when i listened to Billy Gibbons 'Perfectamundo'. Also played 'Hotel California' by Eagles and 'In My Secret Life' by Leonard Cohen. These tracks have varying degrees of bass and the C3G holds up so well in comparison to 5998. Likewise the whole FR is tonally pleasing.
  
 Again I confirmed gain to be similar between C3G and 5998. My volume knob remains at 11am for both power tubes using T1. If anything C3G even sounded a bit louder and more spread out whereas 5998 is more compact. There is very little in it though. It's like the EL3N is dominating throughout. It's literally in the driver's seat. 
  
 I'm so impressed by EL3N and C3G.
  
@CITIZENLIN  do me a favour and try this combo and provide feedback. C3G as power tubes.


----------



## Lorspeaker

...i smell sometin aburnin


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> ...i smell sometin aburnin


 

 Do it ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Buy Elise now with EL3N + C3G. The only thing burning are the musical notes as it's being consumed by the speed of light. Your brain won't believe what your ears are hearing. This is effortless musical fantasy. Elise is now a $3000 tube amp. Let's just say I'm being conservative there. 
  
 /facepalm I should buy a pair of C3G first before making this announcement.


----------



## Lord Raven

My head is spinning while I read all these new revelations lol

I think one of you guys are going to burn the house down 

Where are my adapters for EL3N?  My ears are starving of quality music lol


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> My head is spinning while I read all these new revelations lol
> 
> I think one of you guys are going to burn the house down
> 
> ...


 

 Enjoy your FDD20 and 5998 in the meantime before the new champ arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I have a feeling EL3N with ECC31 as powers will be good too. 
  
 I'm going to roll less though, so my discovery will be slower. I need to preserve Elise. She's too good for rough tube rolling.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  have you tried EL3N as driver and C3G as powers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again UT...and all interested, of course. (These are only first, short, impressions - need much more time yet to get a proper idea...).
  
 Well, finally have the lounge to myself and the C3gs in the power seat...and...WOW indeed, _*very*_ impressive/exciting - plenty of power (2x C3gs would probably be too much, especially as the high voltage gain is giving me very slight hum, alas!). Sparks galore, which is to be expected from the Siemens tubes...treble is its forte, after all, and here in spades. However, for me and my T1s I'm afraid there's just a tad _too_ much - the mids richness so abundant in the GECs is not quite the same here, alas. At the moment, (but this seems to vary quite a bit depending on the track), the C3gs aren't giving me the same immaculate control as the GECs, or quite the same perfect balancing job.
  
 Now this is less to do with C3g's shortcomings and more due, I'm quite sure, to the exceptional qualities of the GECs...and I am trying *so* hard to stay objective here! I will need to do _much_ more listening yet, to be sure...
  
 So, sorry guys to be rather less ecstatic than I hoped for...but there's time yet, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...let's just say the GECs aren't going on the wall _just_ yet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Look forward to your, JV's and others' further findings in due course...but now it's time for zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  
 Goodnight all...


----------



## Oskari

lord raven said:


> My head is spinning while I read all these new revelations lol


 
  
 You are not the only one.


----------



## UntilThen

Not all drivers can go on as powers. Be careful. I try ECC31 as powers but saw a flash of blur flame go up the tube. Swap another ECC31 and same thing happen. Decided that it's a no no to have ECC31 as power.
  
 Now with ECC31 as driver and EL3N as power, music is playing. As expected, it's a more attenuated on bass. Using T1. This is not to my liking. Much prefer using EL3N / C3G. YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 A bit on my preference now:- for whatever reasons, I have come from an initial liking for warm and almost dark tone during the DV336se days to a brighter, breezy tone. I noticed this gradual shift in my preference. A lot has to do with the arrival of Elise. I am just so enthralled with the fast transient speed and clarity and yet at the same time presenting a warm and lush feel.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Not all drivers can go on as powers. Be careful. I try ECC31 as powers but saw a flash of blur flame go up the tube. Swap another ECC31 and same thing happen. Decided that it's a no no to have ECC31 as power.
> 
> Now with ECC31 as driver and EL3N as power, music is playing. As expected, it's a more attenuated on bass. Using T1. This is not to my liking. Much prefer using EL3N / C3G. YMMV.


 
 Did you remember the adapters?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Did you remember the adapters?


 

 Yes I'm using the ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters - works fine when I swap them from powers to drivers. Strangely only the right side display a shot of blur flame. This happens twice with 2 different ECC31 and always on the right side power slot.
  
 So far these drivers works as power tubes on Elise:-
 EL3N
 C3G
 Philco 6N7G
  
 So I'm really curious at what happened with ECC31 as the Philco 6N7G works alright.
  
 Using the 2 ECC31 that had a shot flame through it now as drivers and they are playing very well, with EL3N as power tubes. Very enjoyable.
  
 When EL3N is use as power tubes, you have to compensate by turning up volume by one notch.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes I'm using the ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters - works fine when I swap them from powers to drivers.


 
 Hmm. That's weird. 
  
 One of my Mullard 6080 lights up REALLY quick when I turn on Elise, and quickly dims down to normal again. Could it be something alike? 
  
 Anyway, I wouldn't risk it. Take care of your Elise UT!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> So, sorry guys to be rather less ecstatic than I hoped for...but there's time yet, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, I'd be VERY surprised if the GEC 6AS7G gets knocked off it's perch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not the holy grail of power tubes for nothing. 
  
 I didn't think C3G best 5998 either but from my short listening session with the C3G, I find that it came very close to the 5998. So I've a lot more observations to do over an extended period of time...especially since you say that the EL3Ns will shine more with time. 
  
 Having said that, initial impressions have always been quite accurate from my own experience but sound will certainly change with burn in of tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Like @H1 - I do get a bit of hum using the C3gS as powers. Not overwhelming but it's there. Also have the opposite problem as H1 - a tad *too much* bass.

Almost....distorted! Not quite always but teetering on the edge of distortion in the bass using C3gS as powers.

So have switched to FDD20 as powers...


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Hmm. That's weird.
> 
> One of my Mullard 6080 lights up REALLY quick when I turn on Elise, and quickly dims down to normal again. Could it be something alike?
> 
> Anyway, I wouldn't risk it. Take care of your Elise UT!


 

 Thanks I will. I won't be a cowboy. Love Elise too much to be taking any risks.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Like @H1 - I do get a bit of hum using the C3gS as powers. Not overwhelming but it's there. Also have the opposite problem as H1 - a tad *too much* bass.
> 
> Almost....distorted! Not quite always but teetering on the edge of distortion in the bass using C3gS as powers.
> 
> So have switched to FDD20 as powers...


 

 Ok that's interesting as there's no hum for me. Or distortion whatsoever. For me with C3G as powers, bass is nice and tight and punchy. It's almost as if I has 5998 in there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ok that's interesting as there's no hum for me. Or distortion whatsoever.




That's because your amp has *angel wings*! Lukasz know he was making an amp for his world wide "*sales rep*" 


Like EL3N as drivers / FDD20 as powers and am staying here for a while 

Very pro sounding. Gain is a little less than C3gS as powers...

Wide and deep soundstage as well...no forwardness no stinging frequencies.


----------



## UntilThen

Just curious to see what a conventional power tube such as the Chatham 6520 will do. Using it now with EL3N as drivers. 
  
 Hmmm I think this is the right tone. C3G as power is too clinical. Very nice on initial listen but not sure about long term.
  
 EL3N / Chatham 6520 sounds organic and natural. Very musical. I think I will stay with conventional power tubes lol.
  
 Yup bass has weight now and slam.
  
 The age of discovery has been going too fast. I will stay with EL3N / 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G/6520 until the 100 hours mark.


----------



## mordy

Hi SUUUp,
  
 Saw recently that some Mullards 6080 come with a quick heat up feature - you will see a flash for a second when they turn on.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Just curious to see what a conventional power tube such as the Chatham 6520 will do. Using it now with EL3N as drivers.
> 
> Hmmm I think this is the right tone. C3G as power is too clinical. Very nice on initial listen but not sure about long term.
> 
> ...




I like FDD20 as powers. C3gS as powers are very clinical, agree, there. But think a number of tubes usually thought of as Drivers, can work as powers in this amp. 6N7G had no objectionable properties when used as powers...

Also really liked 6N7G as drivers and EL3N as powers....

So may possibilities!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi SUUUp,
> 
> Saw recently that some Mullards 6080 come with a quick heat up feature - you will see a flash for a second when they turn on.




I had some quick heat 6HM5's back in LD MK IV days, that flashed, for the quick heat up.

We went "Mordy" today and tried some very unconventional tube combinations


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi SUUUp,
> 
> Saw recently that some Mullards 6080 come with a quick heat up feature - you will see a flash for a second when they turn on.


 
 Ah, that makes sense. It's weird though, because it's only one of them -- and I got them as a matched pair. I have some reading to do. Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I had some quick heat 6HM5's back in LD MK IV days, that flashed, for the quick heat up.
> 
> We went "Mordy" today and tried some very unconventional tube combinations


 

 Today is a free for all. It's like anything goes lol. I only had the adapters yesterday so I'll enjoy EL3N as drivers for a while first. It's a tremendous experience and exquisite sound. I love it so much, this tone.
  
 There's no doubt EL3N will play a big part in our musical journey going forward. 
  
 I'm getting groggy. I have on my head the HE560 and I still thought I had the T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Scale of brightness from left to right...towards right warmer.
  
 T1  >   HE560  >  HD650
  
 The best part is I love all 3 headphones with this setup.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Today is a free for all. It's like anything goes lol. I only had the adapters yesterday so I'll enjoy EL3N as drivers for a while first. It's a tremendous experience and exquisite sound. I love it so much, this tone.
> 
> There's no doubt EL3N will play a big part in our musical journey going forward.
> 
> ...




Agree about EL3N - it's a big fish in the pond 'o tubes.

Also agree about your 3 nice phones...and so many nice tubes you can dial in "just right"...

Great stuff!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Agree about EL3N - it's a big fish in the pond 'o tubes.
> 
> Also agree about your 3 nice phones...and so many nice tubes you can dial in "just right"...
> 
> Great stuff!!


 

 You have the essential tubes and the best of HPs too. Senn and Beyer, a great combo. I think 2 headphones is max or else they sit on the stand for show. Eventually the HE560 goes back to my son. Hence why I got the T1 for myself. Like you I have Senn and Beyer too. Got to love germans engineering. 
  





 
  
 I'm not sure why I bid on the Telefunken C3G. Maybe I was so impressed with them as power tubes. I don't really care if I didn't win it. Telefunken !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 30 EL3N to 6SN7 adapters sold
 8   C3G to 6SN7 adapters sold
 14 FDD20 to 6SN7 adapters sold
  
 not including mine...
  
 interesting stats.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> You have the essential tubes and the best of HPs too. Senn and Beyer, a great combo. I think 2 headphones is max or else they sit on the stand for show. Eventually the HE560 goes back to my son. Hence why I got the T1 for myself. Like you I have Senn and Beyer too. Got to love germans engineering.
> 
> I'm not sure why I bid on the Telefunken C3G. Maybe I was so impressed with them as power tubes. I don't really care if I didn't win it. Telefunken !!!!
> [rule]30 EL3N to 6SN7 adapters sold
> ...




I thought you had usurped the HE-560's from your son 

I can find no flaw with using the FDD20's as Powers teamed up with EL3N as Drivers. 
Going to stay with this a few days make sure I know the sound signature well, then compare to 5998's in the Power positions.

From the Tube Adapter stats...lots will be joining in on the "EL3N Wonderland"....soon...'eh?


Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I thought you had usurped the HE-560's from your son
> 
> I can find no flaw with using the FDD20's as Powers teamed up with EL3N as Drivers.
> Going to stay with this a few days make sure I know the sound signature well, then compare to 5998's in the Power positions.
> ...


 

 Yes I have free use of the HE560. Sitting on my desk all the time. I swap all 3 HPs regularly. 
  
 Just ordered 2 more EL3Ns adapters. Will try quad in 25 days time LOL. Make that 26 days.
  
 I've gone back to EL3N and 5998. Will get to know this sig well and make it my benchmark. Let's hope quad EL3N will surprise me.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to this on Tidal. Thought of buying the HD Tracks version.


----------



## UntilThen

Got this album instead.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm on a roll..got this


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I'm on a roll..got this


 
  
 Dave Brubeck is one of my favourites, as is Paul Desmond.
  
 Dedicated to our Polish friends:


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, I'm trying to see if the EL3N would be compatible with another amp I own, since it's also compatible with 6SN7. Does anybody know if the EL is a single or dual triode internally? Probably Lord Raven would know since he broke one apart. thanks in advance...


----------



## Oskari

decentlevi said:


> Hey guys, I'm trying to see if the EL3N would be compatible with another amp I own, since it's also compatible with 6SN7. Does anybody know if the EL is a single or dual triode internally?


 
  
 It's a pentode.
  

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3n.html
http://frank.yueksel.org/sheets/030/e/EL3N.pdf


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like we have the same taste Oskari.


----------



## UntilThen

EL3N and C3G again with Gordon Lightfoot. I like C3G as powers. Sound is clean and fresh.


----------



## UntilThen

Things were simpler back then. Music's beautiful and tubes are much cheaper. Why don't they have songs like this anymore or NOS tubes for $5.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Hey guys, I'm trying to see if the EL3N would be compatible with another amp I own, since it's also compatible with 6SN7. Does anybody know if the EL is a single or dual triode internally? Probably Lord Raven would know since he broke one apart. thanks in advance...



EL3N is a pentode. When you use the adapters, it's a triode strapped pentode, so it works as a single triode.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I'm on a roll..got this
> (( Dave Brubeck's Greatest Hits ))




Nice Brubeck!

The sax player, Paul Desmond, wrote "Take Five" which was a big hit. When he died he left all future royalties for the song to the American Red Cross organization, who has acknowledged getting hundreds of thousands in royalty checks...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Things were simpler back then. Music's beautiful and tubes are much cheaper. Why don't they have songs like this anymore or NOS tubes for $5.




Bread was soooooo good! We play them often and that group: "America"...

The LP's have KILLER sound quality!

Don't get Mordy started on $5,00 tubes 

I live a Bass Clarinet as a lead Jazz instrument: Check out these two cats:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xF0adG2PPv8[/VIDEO]


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, I'd be VERY surprised if the GEC 6AS7G gets knocked off it's perch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT (and @JazzVinyl), have just put the GECs back in and...*no contest!!*...thank goodness, lol!  And it's not because I'm hopelessly in love with them, either! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I am now firmly convinced of the "Holy Grail" hype...this is _not_ some dirty PR/Marketing/speculator ploy! Its combination with Elise, EL3N and T1s is truly sprinkled with a *very* generous amount of Fairy Dust indeed - no doubt whatsoever about it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...I think I can safely say they are _*never*_ gonna get mounted on the wall, LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This has confirmed my decision to finish with tube rolling...this combination is truly giving me everything I ever dreamt of from a headphone amp (not to mention preamp!). I shall now leave further experimentation to you young'uns, lol!...I really do hope you enjoy the journey half as much as I have this past couple of years, and more...I can finally sit back  - restfully! - and simply _*enjoy*_ my backlog of music to the full, rather than snippets for 'testing' purposes.. .
  
 I do, however, look forward to seeing how things go from now...I'm sure there are more revelations to come...GOOD LUCK y'all!..


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Well UT (and @JazzVinyl
> ), have just put the GECs back in and...*no contest!!*...thank goodness, lol!  And it's not because I'm hopelessly in love with them, either! :wink_face: - I am now firmly convinced of the "Holy Grail" hype...this is _not_ some dirty PR/Marketing/speculator ploy! Its combination with Elise, EL3N and T1s is truly sprinkled with a *very* generous amount of Fairy Dust indeed - no doubt whatsoever about it!   ...I think I can safely say they are _*never*_ gonna get mounted on the wall, LOL!!!
> 
> This has confirmed my decision to finish with tube rolling...this combination is truly giving me everything I ever dreamt of from a headphone amp (not to mention preamp!). I shall now leave further experimentation to you young'uns, lol!...I really do hope you enjoy the journey half as much as I have this past couple of years, and more...I can finally sit back  - restfully! - and simply _*enjoy*_ my backlog of music to the full, rather than snippets for 'testing' purposes.. .
> ...




I hear you, H1!!!

I didn't actually expect anything else to be able to knock the GEC's off their perch and am actually glad it didn't.

I think the EL3N/5998 combo may be a tad TOO much bass and it a bit too dark for both my 'phones. So, I will stay with FDD20 as powers for a while.

Who knows, perhaps another big revelation is in store for non T1 owners, down the road 

Cheers to you!


----------



## mordy

Slim pickings today - no $5000.00 tubes, but I remember a pair of Western Electric 300B tubes going for $13,000.00 not so long ago.
  




 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Psvane-WE212C-Vacuum-Tubes-Replica-WE212-Brand-New-/321905218687?hash=item4af30bd47f:g:bysAAOSwwbdWMNqd
  
 A pair of these are only $3099.00.
  
 Last November a pair of these below went for $6000.00
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Matched-Pair-Western-Electric-252A-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-Date-/161903779823?hash=item25b2379fef:g:B-QAAOSwnH1WXSVu
  




  
 Stay tuned for $5.00 Humphrey tubes.....
  
 About unusual tube combinations:
  
 Learned from my Little Dot days to think outside the box, and now I see that it payed off with great sounding combinations of tubes that the cognoscenti wouldn't even think of trying, or would say that it cannot work...
  
 And while we are on unusual topics, here is a 5K amp that had something to do with the US nuclear program - the info is in the post.
  




  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-amplifier-rare-military-vacuum-tube-6v6-amp-atomic-bomb-/221723293719?hash=item339fbcf817:g:riIAAOSwv0tVEC70


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I hear you, H1!!!
> 
> I didn't actually expect anything else to be able to knock the GEC's off their perch and am actually glad it didn't.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV...had a sneaky feeling the 5998s just might need T1-style signature to really appeal ...don't you have the Chathams at all? Or else just go for a pair of T1s and be done with it, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And I too hope for further revelations...they do seem to keep coming!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And cheers to you too!...and _everyone!!_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps.  Folks - don't forget the 5998 has different spec to the 6AS7G/6080, so could explain some 'mismatching' distortions, lol!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Yo JV...had a sneaky feeling the 5998s just might need T1-style signature to really appeal ...don't you have the Chathams at all? Or else just go for a pair of T1s and be done with it, lol! :wink_face:
> 
> And I too hope for further revelations...they do seem to keep coming!!
> 
> ...




Hello H1

No sir, the C3gS as powers had a tad bit of hum (as you reported) and so much bass that they were a hairs' whisper away from distorting.

The EL3N/5998 have HUGE TREMENDOUS GIGANTIC BASS...*not distorted at all*. But perhaps so much bass, that it masks other details.

I have ONE Chatham (not a pair) and I have a fine pair of 1970 Mullard 6080's, the Parts Express 6AS7GA's and several pair of RCA 6AS7G's.

But I like the FDD20's as powers, they work just fine in that roll. I have zero complaints.

Will stay EL3N/FDD20 (as powers) for a few weeks then compare again to 5998 or 6080's as powers.

I hear nothing wrong at all, using FDD20 as Power tubes.

Cheers!!


----------



## hypnos1

tjw321 said:


> D@rn internet. I've missed @UTs T1 odyssey, @H1 lying about his age (adding a few years to get free travel? No way are you older than me!), and a lot of fun with adapters... Mine are ordered BTW...and loads more, no doubt. Back again in an hour (which is how long it's taking head-fi to load ATM).
> BTW, @LR, I have HD600s, too. I use a "slappa" hard case - which is much better than it sounds. No way will I be parting with my HD600s, even if I my T1 fund ever manages to reach it's target.


 
  
 Hi tjw...hope you're getting your connection sorted - you've _*plenty*_ to catch up on, lol!...EL3Ns and adapters sorted also, I trust?!...and beg, steal or borrow to get that T1 fund completed - you _know_ you must, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(we're a growing club now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 ps....told you I was 'sprightly'...(but don't *feel* it sometimes, alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## UntilThen

Slept through like a lamb after 2 days of listening to EL3N. Last night, being dragged to watch 'The Revenant' was a life saver for me but the film was gory. Whilst my ears got rested from headphones bliss, my eyes didn't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyhoo I started this morning, wondering what tubes combo I'd try. Saw JV's post on using FDD20s as power tubes so I thought why not, let's try that. True enough, just as the C3G surprised me, so did the FDD20 as powers. It does seem that with EL3N in the driver's seat, most tubes sound good as powers. I still particularly like the C3G as powers because the sound is so clean and revealing, it's uncanny.
  
 H1, you're right. 5998 is unlike your usual 6AS7G and 6080 as it's gain is much higher. Not only that, it does sound a whole lot different. Checking my old notes, I wrote that on 1st listen, the 5998 sounded alive across the whole FR. However, coming from the 6AS7G, it's the bass that stands out when listening with the 5998. I do like them very much, despite their high price. Paired with the right driver and headphone, they have a magic other power tubes don't have.
  
 I was trying to characterise EL3N sound and what comes to mind is energy. I also thought that the whole frequency range sounded very linear and pleasing. It's interesting the Sakurma style amplifier that uses EL3N thought so too. Here's what the author wrote..
  
*When operated correctly these valves have a very energetic sound which is very pleasing for almost all music varieties. *
  
*and*
  
*When operated at the datasheets operating points, sound is energetic and seductive. Tone is very good, and both lows and highs are in good proportion.*
  
Which leads me to this. Now that I know that the EL3N and adapters works as power tubes, how will four EL3N sound in Elise?...that is, in Sakurma style, except I'm going to coin it Elise style. 




  
 What is Sakurma style? Again quoting this source...
*Sakuma style.*
 What is Sakuma style? Well if you look at the Sakuma designs, you can see that he often *uses power valves as drivers.* Many times the driver is the same valve as the power valve. Sakuma has some interesting designs as well, like "the window of sound" and "two point earthing method" which, according to him, directy translates to good sound quality. Supposedly authority in sound is determined by the energy of the heater, be it directly or inderctly heated valves. Maybe if we look at that aspect, high energy on the heater means most certainly a power valve which has a low plate impedance. *So to go Sakuma style maybe EL3N driving EL3N might improve sound quality?*

Now I've found that using EL3N as power tube results in lower gain but just by one notch on my volume knob. So instead of 10 o'clock, I now have to increase to 11 o'clock, which is still ok. 

Like you H1 and JV, I too felt that we've reach the ultimate for Elise with getting the best sound in tube rolling. There could be better but I doubt. Having reach this level of SQ, I can contentedly sit back and just enjoy the music, instead of being a compulsive tube roller. However, as I have ordered another pair of EL3N adapters, that will be my last experiment...using EL3N as drivers and as powers.

 Cheers to all who get to sample Elise with these tubes. Now that I have heard the Beyer T1 with it, I can also say affirmatively that this setup is an ideal and winning combination. That said, I believe there are many headphones that will sound just as marvellous with this setup. The choice of headphone depends on you as an individual.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1
> 
> No sir, the C3gS as powers had a tad bit of hum (as you reported) and so much bass that they were a hairs' whisper away from distorting.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That should be _very _interesting, JV...and it sure is great news that the EL3Ns pair well with the 5998s - as UT has also found. And good news also about FDD20s as powers - who'd have thought, lol?!
  
 But, of course, you've simply *got* to get a second Chatham...like _yesterday, lol!!_





...and then...heh heh..._*THE GECs!!!*_








...(you _know_ you want to...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Slept through like a lamb after 2 days of listening to EL3N. Last night, being dragged to watch 'The Revenant' was a life saver for me but the film was gory. Whilst my ears got rested from headphones bliss, my eyes didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 4x EL3Ns will surely be the ultimate test indeed, UT..._perhaps, lol!!_





...whatever, it'll be mighty interesting. Let's just hope those darn' adapters don't take so long this time!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @UntilThen, I've just realised...I do in fact have _*three*_ EL3Ns adapted - should I pop one in next to the GEC and see what happens, lol? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...probably far too different in power output to be of any real use for assessment purposes though!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> 4x EL3Ns will surely be the ultimate test indeed, UT..._perhaps, lol!!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well H1, if I'm crazy enough (just before Shane rides off into the sunset), I might also try _four_ EL3Ns as power tubes and _two_ EL3N as drivers, making it a _*SIX*_.
  
 I just knew why I have 6 EL3Ns....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @UntilThen, I've just realised...I do in fact have _*three*_ EL3Ns adapted - should I pop one in next to the GEC and see what happens, lol?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 DO IT !    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Then adapt another EL3N and run 4 EL3Ns. Don't wait for my findings...it will be another 25 days later.  Hahaha....


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> DO IT !


 
  
 OK, lol...later (as usual!!)...cheers for now...


----------



## UntilThen

I needed to know how FDD20 and 5998 will sound after 2 days of EL3N and 5998 (and other assorted 'powers').
  
 WOW...FDD20 and 5998 sound almost as good...are my ears deceiving me? I think this is where it gets difficult comparing 2 very good sounding setup. When you're on one, you go...'What the...this sounds too good'. Then you swap to the other and you go.. 'What the... this sounds good too !!!'.
  
 You get what I mean?
  
 So please don't junk your FDD20 / 5998 setup yet... it's the former champ ho ho ho.


----------



## UntilThen

Let me just say that if you're not satisfied with the sound from Elise with FDD20 / 5998 or EL3N / 5998 with a good headphone,
  
 ..... you certainly have a problem !!!! 
  
 if you crave an upgrade after listening to the above....
  
 ..... you have a BIGGER problem !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

The original Beyer T1 cable. See the claw clamp at the left hand side? Each cable have 2 copper wires and a green or red wire. Cable is very thick and heavy. Quality stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

Time to move the lawn. Be back later.


----------



## UntilThen

Can't help but listen one more time before moving lawn.
  
 NO WAY !!!  EL3N and 5998 is way better than FDD20 and 5998. My ears aren't deceiving me. Way better than Fivre 6N7G brown base too.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> This has confirmed my decision to finish with tube rolling...


 
  
 Haven't you seen this sign before??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 .... and this shall be your motto


----------



## UntilThen

WOW listen to this loud with HD650 and Elise+EL3N+5998.
  
 OK...change video...NOT APPROPRIATE !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No more Psycho...you get Uprising instead !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Hey I'm suppose to be moving the lawn but I'm still here listening to music ............. bye !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Haven't you seen this sign before???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT, I thought I was going to be posting a come-back story to beat all stories - then semi-disaster struck (but nothing to worry about, lol!) : the first attempt at EL3N + GEC failed - far too big a difference in output. Then I remembered I had an Osram with one weak triode, so I stuck that in, and...WOWEE! Although there was still slight imbalance, the sound was just _*glorious!!...*_and I thought we were onto a real winner here..._*BUT*_...after a few checks of some peak recording levels...*TRAGEDY!...*_*DISTORTION!*_ I could have cried...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...And so I've cut short the experiment, I'm afraid, and quickly got this to you before I hear shouts from the bedroom, lol!
  
 So I go to my bed a sadder fellow...and it's all _*your (and JV's!) *_fault!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I forgive you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ah well, it was worth a try, lol!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I shall say goodnight now.......and hope to sleep tight!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## aqsw

I returned the T1s I bought. The seller agreed to take them back as he had graded them a 9/10. I felt they were about 6/10.
So I'm on the lookout for some cans now. 
Tried to order some T1.2s from headphonebar. They are out of stock. Don't know when they will be getting more, and won't guarantee the old price.
Im actually listening to the Elise with the Ether Cs right now. As long as I use stock drivers it gets loud enough for me without distorting.

And I ordered my tube dac this afternoon. Had to give half down, and pay the balance in 4-5 weeks when it is finished. Its going to be a long month, but I'm used to waiting.
Elise, Carbon, and Ether Cs were all a long wait.


----------



## supersonic395

aqsw said:


> I returned the T1s I bought. The seller agreed to take them back as he had graded them a 9/10. I felt they were about 6/10.
> So I'm on the lookout for some cans now.
> Tried to order some T1.2s from headphonebar. They are out of stock. Don't know when they will be getting more, and won't guarantee the old price.
> Im actually listening to the Elise with the Ether Cs right now. As long as I use stock drivers it gets loud enough for me without distorting.
> ...




Was it the sound of the T1 you disliked or the condition?


----------



## aqsw

supersonic395 said:


> Was it the sound of the T1 you disliked or the condition?




Definately the condition, as I was willing to buy the 1.2s right away.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Definately the condition, as I was willing to buy the 1.2s right away.




Did you contact Lukasz about the distortion problem?

:mad:


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> WOW listen to this loud with HD650 and Elise+EL3N+5998.
> 
> OK...change video...NOT APPROPRIATE !!!
> 
> No more Psycho...you get Uprising instead !!!




Definitely a cool video!!


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Did you contact Lukasz about the distortion problem?
> 
> :mad:




No , I haven't yet. I want to try all possible solutions. . My house is 60 years old, and Im not too sure about the wiring. I'm going to take the system to my office 
and try it there. I know it has clean wiring there. I also want to try the el3ns when I get my adaptors.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> No , I haven't yet. I want to try all possible solutions. . My house is 60 years old, and Im not too sure about the wiring. I'm going to take the system to my office
> and try it there. I know it has clean wiring there. I also want to try the el3ns when I get my adaptors.




Sounds like a plan, aqsw. 

Hope it turns out that the amp does *not* need to go back to Poland.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT, I thought I was going to be posting a come-back story to beat all stories - then semi-disaster struck (but nothing to worry about, lol!) : the first attempt at EL3N + GEC failed - far too big a difference in output. Then I remembered I had an Osram with one weak triode, so I stuck that in, and...WOWEE! Although there was still slight imbalance, the sound was just _*glorious!!...*_and I thought we were onto a real winner here..._*BUT*_...after a few checks of some peak recording levels...*TRAGEDY!...*_*DISTORTION!*_ I could have cried...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wait...what...who ...when ...how....you can't go to bed lol. 
  
 Distortion? Please specify...at what volume did you get distortion and is it loud? What kind of distortion? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well I'm going to brave it with these....so tell me not to if you think it's not worth it...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> No , I haven't yet. I want to try all possible solutions. . My house is 60 years old, and Im not too sure about the wiring. I'm going to take the system to my office
> and try it there. I know it has clean wiring there. I also want to try the el3ns when I get my adaptors.


 

 aqsw, your final solution is to visit me and bring Elise. LR is going to witness a humphrey Elise when he comes. 
  
 One other thing, you have to get to love the T1 especially coming from a LCD2.2.  If you're like me, going from one extreme to the other, you'll gradually love the T1. T1.2 will obviously give you a tone closer to LCD2.2, especially with warm sounding tubes.
  
 Which ever way, cure the distortion first and you're be in sonic heaven.


----------



## UntilThen

*Elise + EL3N + C3G with HD650 is sonic heaven. *
  
 The Senn opens up and becomes a much more revealing headphone. It's quite amazing. This is one combo I definitely like now. 
  
 Even using T1 or HE560, I could like the EL3N and C3G too. It's more analytical but I love that presentation. I don't get distortion with this tubes combo, that's the beauty of it. 
  
 Using HD650, volume at 9.5 is LOUD.
  
 Folks if you offer me $2000 for Elise, I won't sell it to you. Not a chance !!!
  
 $3000 I will. Then I'll buy a Eddie Current Zana Deux S and an Elise...and I'll tell you which is better.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp has your Elise arrived?


----------



## UntilThen

And so begins my impressions of EL3N and various power tubes again.
  
*EL3N and C3G  13/10*
  
 Details galore. Notes are like an enhanced photo. I really like this setup. 
  
 With HD650, you get the signature HD650 sound but with extended clear treble and a midrange to do the HD650 justice. This is the best I've heard of this headphone. It really make it come alive. Volume at 9.5am
  
 With HE560, crystal clear sound with more warm than T1. Again I love the tone from this setup. I did detect some breakup at a very loud volume... 2pm. I think anyone listening at this level has to be crazy or don't value their hearing. I think it's not even worth mentioning distortion here.
  
 With T1, this has become a surgical, precision instrument. It's not fatiguing though. I find myself actually preferring this than the other 2. High notes has never been so lovely and sweet. It's like a Nightingale singing at her prime. 
  
 With all 3 headphones, I find the bass to be impactful and very controlled. I like this hard hitting bass. This impact is like a hammer being thrown at you with great force and it's concentrated.


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 Just when you think it's safe to get into the water, along comes another epic combo. It's more suitable using Chatham 6AS7G as power tube than C3G because I detect no breakup in sound at very high levels with any of my 3 headphones. There is superb control and bass impact here. Fresh, airy, detail and exciting sound. Bass is more full blown than C3G for sure. Soundstage wide and superb imaging. This is what a true power tube can do. I think I'd be completely happy with this combo and any of my 3 headphones. Highly recommended. 
  
 Btw only the good ones are framed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm past my 40 hours mark now on EL3N, so it's time to spin the 'Wars of the World' and see what H1 has been hearing all this while.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i have 2 chathams lying around, now to find 3000bucks to buy the/his Elise.  
  
 anyone heard the humble$5MONK on the ELISE yet...zzz


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> i have 2 chathams lying around, now to find 3000bucks to buy the/his Elise.
> 
> anyone heard the humble$5MONK on the ELISE yet...zzz


 

 For you I'll throw in a pair of NOS EL3N. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad you've on beautiful avatars again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Because of that I'm willing to discount my $3000 Elise... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alright...since you're so insistent I'll buy a pair of VMONK. Ordering now...and I'll might end up doing several pages of reviews of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
  
 zzzzzzzzz..........   what's this $500 for a earbud? 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html?af=85386&dp=6378_1452329047_c8e3aa49b933f8c86bab291989f1767a
  
@Lorspeaker  *!!!!! why $500 for a earbud??? *


----------



## Lorspeaker

it is out of stock again until another week later, where there will be stockabundance so i heard.
  
  
 have u heard the Psvane CV181 Tii tube...?
 if u like the airy chathams..then this more$$tube is along that same vein
 but with a step up on microdetailssss.
  
  
 http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-tii-pair/


----------



## UntilThen

Alright, I wrote to Lukasz and told him this red tube call EL3N is taking Elise world by storm. Told him it can be used as driver or power tubes and that it sounds amazing.
  
 My next question to him is, 'Lukasz, can I use dual EL3N per power socket?'
  
 Waiting for his reply....I can almost see his expression as below...


----------



## Lorspeaker

he is gonna cancel the warranty on your set ..LOL


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> it is out of stock again until another week later, where there will be stockabundance so i heard.
> 
> 
> have u heard the Psvane CV181 Tii tube...?
> ...


 

 So now instead of selling me a $5 earbud, you're selling me a pair of $200 drivers...
  
 Wait a minute, they look really nice... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'll wait for the next Lotto 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 BUT there's no way it's sweeter than the EL3N !!!
  
 Which is nicer?


----------



## Lorspeaker

ermm....greysmokeytubes are better of cos.
  
 wait for a 2ndhand pair...then pick it up for a whirl...u have to...one day. ya Lotto


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> ermm....greysmokeytubes are better of cos.
> 
> wait for a 2ndhand pair...then pick it up for a whirl...u have to...one day. ya Lotto


 

@hypnos1 has a pair. Since he's done with tube rolling, he might sell to me for $5...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ok I'll be generous ... I'll pay him $50... how's that?


----------



## Lorspeaker

he 's a great guy..... "mon ami mon ami mon ami"   he kept chanting..
  
 u can listen to them for $1 / hour / tube


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N and 5998   15/10*
  
 Alright folks this is it. This is the benchmark of all benchmarks. This is the culmination of a year's worth of tube rolling on Elise. Blame @Lord Raven  for sleeping 6 months without upgrading his tubes.
  
 Let me warm up my verbal gymnastics. This needs a proper write up. It is after all the best driver and best power tubes on the planet. Never mind @hypnos1 's GEC 6AS7G. That's out of reach for most of us. So it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.
  
*EL3N*:- I've said before. My one word to describe this is ENERGY. JV's description is ORGANIC. I can't remember H1's description 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well he has more than one word. Quite a lot to be precise. This tube sounds great across the whole frequency spectrum. High notes are not a problem. Midrange is child's play. Bass ...are you kidding me? This is bass king...much better than ECC31. In a word, the tube does the whole FR well and presents to you as a musical masterpiece. Not only that, it's equally adapt at the role of power as it is in the role of a driver. Take your pick, EL3N is everything to everybody. Question is, do we have enough of this tube to last 10 years?
  
*5998*:- This power tube has been described countless times by just about every tube rollers. About 5998 times is not too far off the mark. Surprisingly this power tube also excels in the whole FR presentation. Most people will tell you they hear the bass first but that is so inaccurate. There's has never been a more sweeter tube for vocals. Midrange is it's fiefdom.Treble is it's playground. Take it anyway, the 1st listen of this power tube will be one of astonishment. The sonic qualities of this power tube is as good as it is expensive. So please don't buy up the stocks completely.
  
 So what happens when you combine the EL3N and the 5998. Well for a start, 2 worlds collide, sparks fly everywhere and you experience a deep awakening. Decades old pent up energies are released and as the tubes warm up, the 1st listen is nothing short of breath taking....but then this word has been used so many times, it's lost much of it's meaning. Truth is this combo is the bringer of wars, mars, love, peace, tranquility and ultimately a state of Zen. You've finally arrived and attain audio nirvana. Congrats, you deserve it.
  
 Oh one other thing. This combo works exceptionally well with HD650, HE560 and the venerable T1...... as well as <insert your headphones here>.
  
 Cheers happy listening.


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> he 's a great guy..... "mon ami mon ami mon ami"   he kept chanting..
> 
> u can listen to them for $1 / hour / tube


 
  
 Hi L...._*mon ami!*_ (do I have favourites?..._*yes!*_...all fellow Elise owners, to be sure, lol!...and a good few more besides!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I have to admit to getting just a _tad_ impatient at your delay in becoming "one of us"!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...c'mon...*MON AMI, MON AMI!!! *





).
  
 ps. The EL3N trounces the PsVanes, alas...shame, 'cos I _love_ the look of those PsVs lol! (Haven't tried them as_ powers_ in the Elise though!).
  


untilthen said:


> *EL3N and 5998   15/10*
> 
> Alright folks this is it. This is the benchmark of all benchmarks. This is the culmination of a year's worth of tube rolling on Elise. Blame @Lord Raven  for sleeping 6 months without upgrading his tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...with this (and all that's gone before!) I think this is just about all that needs to be said, lol....there surely can't be any doubt - or questions! - left in anyones' minds...or can there, lol?!!
  
*HOWEVER*, the down side of this (for us Elise owners, that is!) is that word is obviously spreading far and wide about this amazing tube, and yes, already the generous supply of your bargain find (Peter) is exhausted...he must be a very happy - if not bewildered! - chap indeed, lol! I can only hope that folks here took our repeated advice and got their own supply _quickly!_
  
 Now, back to my *WARNING* about the EL3N as power/output tube : first, the volume level was between 11 and 12o'clock, and still *below *what would probably be needed with 2 in place (due to the still higher vol from the weakened GEC/Osram).
  
 My first suspicion was occasional 'extra' noises that I put down to sounds in the recording I simply hadn't noticed before. Then a form of 'clipping', which I haven't encountered before, accompanied by changes in balance (over and above that due to tube vol. difference). By now I was feeling a bit uncomfortable...but then at sudden peaks in the recording - especially male voice - full-blown distorted break-up of same occurred...and that was it, I'm afraid..._*enough was enough!*_
  
 And so for this to happen at_* below *_what I would regard as 'normal' listening level is, for me, a complete *NO NO!!!*
  
 As for going double, I'm afraid I haven't the faintest clue as to what might happen...sorry...
  
 ps. PsVane CV181TIIs for $50?...*sorry!!*...now a return ticket to Sydney and fully escorted - by _you! - _tour of your amazing country, and I might be tempted, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....Ah well, perhaps one day I shall just pack a rucksack and tour the parts of the World I've missed so far!...trouble is, a rucksack just ain't gonna do it - what with Elise packed in there as well!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I need a hug, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...BFN...CHEERS!


----------



## TomNC

@UT, you are a smooth copywriter.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> *EL3N and 5998   15/10*
> 
> Alright folks this is it. This is the benchmark of all benchmarks. This is the culmination of a year's worth of tube rolling on Elise. Blame @Lord Raven  for sleeping 6 months without upgrading his tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi UT,
 Should I grab a pair of the PhillipsEL3N's????
 Did you get yours from thetubecenter?
 Cheers
 UPDATE :Could not wait, got my pair of EL3N's ,and I will order the adaptors later on ,I don't thing they will be in a short supply any time soon.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@UntilThen

Where is EL3N/FDD20 as powers, review?


----------



## Lord Raven

Brother, please also mention that LR is also hum free and he is going to witness another hum free Elise, to make it more clear to fellow Elise owners  LOL
  
 Yes, I blame myself for staying away from tube rolling for 6 months but look at me now, I got all the best combos LOL Just need the T1 and I will be set for the rest of my life 
  
  
 PS FDD20 with 5998 is definitely magic, I can rate it 9.8/10 as everybody else did. 
  
 Edit: EL3N adapters are still riding the camel, I think I will shortly experience the 15/10 combo on my HD600 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wish me luck, all the lucky ones  I am depleting the 5998s now LOL
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> aqsw, your final solution is to visit me and bring Elise. LR is going to witness a humphrey Elise when he comes.
> 
> One other thing, you have to get to love the T1 especially coming from a LCD2.2.  If you're like me, going from one extreme to the other, you'll gradually love the T1. T1.2 will obviously give you a tone closer to LCD2.2, especially with warm sounding tubes.
> 
> Which ever way, cure the distortion first and you're be in sonic heaven.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> he 's a great guy..... "mon ami mon ami mon ami"   he kept chanting..


 
  
 Obi Wan Kenobi?
  


hypnos1 said:


> Well UT...with this (and all that's gone before!) I think this is just about all that needs to be said, lol....there surely can't be any doubt - or questions! - left in anyones' minds...or can there, lol?!!


 
  
 But we've just started .... there's lots more to be said ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


tomnc said:


> @UT, you are a smooth copywriter.


 
  
 I've been called typewriter, speechwriter, playmaker, bookkeeper, grammy awards winner but I'll accept copywriter as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> Where is EL3N/FDD20 as powers, review?


 
  
 It's baking at the moment. I need you to start on the draft first. I'll fill in the blanks...and I don't expect any blanks from you. Seriously JV, that is your undertaking. We'll all eagerly await.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


b-60 said:


> Hi UT,
> Should I grab a pair of the PhillipsEL3N's????
> Did you get yours from thetubecenter?
> Cheers
> UPDATE :Could not wait, got my pair of EL3N's ,and I will order the adaptors later on ,I don't thing they will be in a short supply any time soon.


 
  
@B-60 you get it from anywhere, as long as it says EL3N, has a band of red and penguin paddles feet because as soon as more reviews gets out, this commodity will be rarer than a Tasmanian Tiger.
  


lord raven said:


> Brother, please also mention that LR is also hum free and he is going to witness another hum free Elise to make it more clear to fellow Elise owners  LOL


 
  
 My oversight. I should have remembered that you use lightning rod for greater SQ. There's 2 types of hum free. The desert hum free and the down under hum free. Don't you think it's logical that to be grounded, it has to be down under? Let's face it, you don't put your ground wire up in the sky. It has to be down there.


----------



## puffmtd

Mr. UT, do the 5998's require an adapter?  I notice adapters in the picture you posted.


----------



## jerick70

@UntilThen I have my T1s now.  I'm really enjoying them!  You and @Suuup were not wrong about how well they pair with the Elise.  All I can say is Amazing!  Why isn't the T1 regarded better on Head-fi?


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Mr. UT, do the 5998's require an adapter?  I notice adapters in the picture you posted.


 

 5998 does not need an adapter. Those are socket savers. You can use a stack of this to make an Eiffel Tower. My main purpose in using them is to make them of proportionate height to the front drivers.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> 5998 does not need an adapter. Those are socket savers. You can use a stack of this to make an Eiffel Tower. My main purpose in using them is to make them of proportionate height to the front drivers.


 

 Plus with as much tube rolling as you do UT, it will "SAVE" your Elise in the long run.


----------



## jerick70

Here is what I'm listening to this morning...  Amazing on the Elsie with the T1s.  Sounds even better on Tidal.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> @UntilThen I have my T1s now.  I'm really enjoying them!  You and @Suuup were not wrong about how well they pair with the Elise.  All I can say is Amazing!  Why isn't the T1 regarded better on Head-fi?


 

 I'll tell you why. The general populace likes new toys. Who doesn't. T1 and HD800 will always stand the test of time. They are the trail blazers. I take off my hat off to the engineering marvels that goes into them.
  
 These 2 headphones have the best soundstage out there. Yes even after so many years, they are still regarded as being amongst the best. Many have claim they're just technically capable and analytical but not musical.
  
 I have to question that though. When does musical not encompass details and excellent technical presentation.
  
 I have to admit T1 has these traits but I don't consider them shortcomings. T1's mids are just a touch more recessed compared to the HE560. T1 can sound a bit lean and bright to some. The 8khz treble peak bothers quite a few people but not me. I think they defined T1 as a TOTL headphone. All these anomalies are overcome by a good tube amp like Elise. Suddenly T1's mids are focussed and more upfront. Treble peaks are not longer hurting but sweet and extended. Bass is no longer polite but has impact. Overall, the soundstage and precise imaging is enough to make you sit for hours listening to music.
  
 I sit here rotating my 3 headphones, HD650, HE560 and T1 and I like all of them with Elise + EL3N + 5998. These are not the most expensive headphones at the moment but I think they are possibly the smartest best buy at the moment with Elise.
  
 Having said that, will somebody please lend me a pair of HD800 and LCD2.2 ? I want to hear those extremes.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Here is what I'm listening to this morning...  Amazing on the Elsie with the T1s.  Sounds even better on Tidal.


 
 I love Norah Jones. She has rich musical genes. A voice so unique, I could not stop listening to her songs. In fact, it's no secret that I love good female vocals. On the T1 plus Elise, you are in for a great time.
  
 I need to bring my setup to the next meet. It's time to introduce Elise + T1 to the world.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> 5998 does not need an adapter. Those are socket savers. You can use a stack of this to make an Eiffel Tower. My main purpose in using them is to make them of proportionate height to the front drivers.


 

 Thank you sir!...I was kind of worried after I saw your pic.  The 5995's arrived yesterday and I plugged them in bare naked to Elise and thought I may have messed up.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Thank you sir!...I was kind of worried after I saw your pic.  The 5995's arrived yesterday and I plugged them in bare naked to Elise and thought I may have messed up.


 

 Well tell us how they sound to you? With Tung Sol 6SN7GTB drivers? 
  
 UT will do ...I'm humbled to be called sir. I'm so glad to have you in our midst.


----------



## jerick70

Yes admittedly I'm the same way..... New toys now!!!!  I do see your point.  These are fabulous headphones with the right amp.  I've been listening to them on my Violectric V200, The Airist Audio Heron 5 I'm testing on Airist's demo event, Yulong DA8 II, and the Elise.  The Elise fills the T1s out and brings out the best I've heard them sound.
  
 I'm a loud speaker guy too.  The detail the T1s exude, remind me a lot of the LS50s.  The T1 is without the horrible terrible peak though.  I really don't hear the peak on the T1 that everyone is talking about.  I think they sound perfect.


----------



## jerick70

Here's another Nora Jones favorite of mine....


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Yes admittedly I'm the same way..... New toys now!!!!  I do see your point.  These are fabulous headphones with the right amp.  I've been listening to them on my Violectric V200, The Airist Audio Heron 5 I'm testing on Airist's demo event, Yulong DA8 II, and the Elise.  The Elise fills the T1s out and brings out the best I've heard them sound.
> 
> I'm a loud speaker guy too.  The detail the T1s exude, remind me a lot of the LS50s.  The T1 is without the horrible terrible peak though.  *I really don't hear the peak on the T1 that everyone is talking about.  I think they sound perfect. *


 

 You nail it Jerick. T1 and HD800 needs Elise IMHO. To pair them with an ss amp is folly. 
  
 Now that you've said those words in bold, beyerdynamic will make you an honorary fellow and you get a free plant tour in Germany.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> You nail it Jerick. T1 and HD800 needs Elise IMHO. To pair them with an ss amp is folly.
> 
> Now that you've said those words in bold, beyerdynamic will make you an honorary fellow and you get a free plant tour in Germany.


 

 I'm up for that for sure.  Germany is a beautiful place and I would love to see the German engineering machine in action.  I've head it is a sight to behold.
  
 I'm so glad I listened to to the Elise crew on the T1.  I have really been missing the detail that my KEF LS50s had and the T1s fill that hole for me.  The T1s are better I think though in the detail department and they don't have the metallic sound. I traded my LS50s because I couldn't handle the treble and the metal sound.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I love Norah Jones. She has rich musical genes. A voice so unique, I could not stop listening to her songs. In fact, it's no secret that I love good female vocals. On the T1 plus Elise, you are in for a great time.
> 
> I need to bring my setup to the next meet. It's time to introduce Elise + T1 to the world.


 

 Nora has to be one of my favorite vocalists.  She is amazing.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I'm so glad I listened to to the Elise crew on the T1.  I have really been missing the detail that my KEF LS50s had and the T1s fill that hole for me.  The T1s are better I think though in the detail department and they don't have the metallic sound. I traded my LS50s because I couldn't handle the treble and the metal sound.


 
 T1 is a very capable headphone. The level of details is astonishing. With a well recorded piece of music, you will hear instruments separation so clearly that you think your ears are playing tricks. This HP is fast ! I mean Hussien Bolt fast. Think 0 to 100 metres in sub 10 secs. That's what T1 does. A fast transient response. One that sounds extremely lively and engaging. With Elise, it is how I like my music.
  
 When you rub in warm and lush to this speedy gonzales, you get a Buggati. A real racing beast with muscles.
  
 Jerick I'm so glad you get to experience T1 with Elise. Wait till you get hold of your EL3N and adapters. Use it with your Chatham 6AS7G, it's the next best setup to the 'Benchmark'. Then come back and tell me what you think.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> T1 is a very capable headphone. The level of details is astonishing. With a well recorded piece of music, you will hear instruments separation so clearly that you think your ears are playing tricks. This HP is fast ! I mean Hussien Bolt fast. Think 0 to 100 metres in sub 10 secs. That's what T1 does. A fast transient response. One that sounds extremely lively and engaging. With Elise, it is how I like my music.
> 
> When you rub in warm and lush to this speedy gonzales, you get a Buggati. A real racing beast with muscles.
> 
> Jerick I'm so glad you get to experience T1 with Elise. Wait till you get hold of your EL3N and adapters. Use it with your Chatham 6AS7G, it's the next best setup to the 'Benchmark'. Then come back and tell me what you think.


 

 What is the benchmark?  Sorry I must have missed it.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> What is the benchmark?  Sorry I must have missed it.


 

 Huh? You missed it ???      /facepalm       Post #6004.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL You are right, logically it should go to the ground but lightening ground is also going to the ground, it is not a floating ground point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I cannot do individual ground for my apartment alone, not feasible. This was my best bet, I disconnect the ground when I leave my rig. Otherwise, in the unlikely case of lightning strike, the ground would not be at zero potential and it might blow up everything inside the amplifier. Just mentioning this for anyone else who is trying lightning ground to go hum free, be careful.
  
 Your case, the lightning ground might have different end point, you can check and tell.
  
 But boy the rig is super silent, almost like the stock tubes  I cannot be more happy after troubleshooting to the extreme limits, this is the best result I could achieve. 
  
 I touch the tubes, no hum or noise, I touch the adapters, there is nothing LOL
  
  
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> My oversight. I should have remembered that you use lightning rod for greater SQ. There's 2 types of hum free. The desert hum free and the down under hum free. Don't you think it's logical that to be grounded, it has to be down under? Let's face it, you don't put your ground wire up in the sky. It has to be down there.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Huh? You missed it ???      /facepalm       Post #6004.


 

 LOL.  Yeah I just found it.  A little slow this morning!
  
 Tung Sol 5998 is all I need....  Man they are expensive!


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @UntilThen...despite the sad result from the EL3N experiment as power/output tube, this cloud has had a wonderful silver lining. Somehow - and perhaps the second name I gave Elise, ie 'Merlin' - is indeed appropriate, because after using in said experiment, the weak Osram (that I thought consigned to oblivion for ever) now matches my 'good' one in output...miraculous indeed, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(can't think the latter is now _that_ weak after recent use, lol!).... Whatever, I now have an extra 'Holy Grail' in the arsenal...for which I have to thank you once again, *mon ami!!*...
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


>


 
 Do you realise that tubes are extremely high voltage. I feel my body in a constant electrical charge. Could be one reason why the music sound and *feels* so good. !!!
  


jerick70 said:


> LOL.  Yeah I just found it.  A little slow this morning!
> 
> Tung Sol 5998 is all I need....  Man they are expensive!


 
 ...and we know who have been buying all the 5998. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi @UntilThen...despite the sad result from the EL3N experiment as power/output tube, this cloud has had a wonderful silver lining. Somehow - and perhaps the second name I gave Elise, ie 'Merlin' - is indeed appropriate, because after using in said experiment, the weak Osram (that I thought consigned to oblivion for ever) now matches my 'good' one in output...miraculous indeed, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, you can thank me but after you try dual EL3N per power sockets LOL. I think this is the final showdown. Mrs Xu Ling has prepared my Paypal invoice for 2 dual EL3N adapters but I told her to wait 2 days while I go up the mountain to seek wisdom on whether this is a wise course of action.


----------



## UntilThen

Hooray I have been outbid on the 2 Telefunken C3G at $50.... 
  
 I shouldn't buy any more drivers as I have too many already... in fact I need to sell a few. Drawers are overflowing.
  
 Having said that, I'd have gladly bought the Telefunkens at $50.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is a great combo.

EL3N as drivers and FDD20 as powers. Highly recommended to all who cannot locate 5998's for Powers.

They like Beyer DT-990 more then Sennheiser 580's.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL whatever is the case, I love tube sound... Lightning strikes cured all the hum and noise issues 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Do you realise that tubes are extremely high voltage. I feel my body in a constant electrical charge. Could be one reason why the music sound and *feels* so good. !!!


----------



## Oskari

jerick70 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > I love Norah Jones.
> ...


 
  
 I'll have to agree.


----------



## Lord Raven

Listening to David Bowie - Blackstar 24/96
  
 Mind = Blown


----------



## Lord Raven

My million dollar setup  

Every penny that I spent, was worth it. FDD20 is that good, I have no regrets.

It deserves better camera to capture the beauty, I'm too lazy, the music made me so lol

Cheers to all the lucky ones! 

Edit: Another hum/noise free setup


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> My million dollar setup
> 
> Every penny that I spent, was worth it. FDD20 is that good, I have no regrets.
> 
> ...




Looking GOOD, LR!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Check out the volume knobs bro, do you like the red color? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Looking GOOD, LR!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Joni Mitchell - The Hissing Of Summer Lawns 24/192
  
 Another sweet sounding Jazzy voice next up in my playlist


----------



## pctazhp

WAHOOOOOOHHH 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	
















  Elise has arrive, stock tubes installed and burning in - 30 minutes and counting !!!! Listening to Glenn Campbell and Bobbie Gentry duets - don't ask me why - I'm so excited right now I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My HD700s have never come close to sounding this good !!!!!!!!
  
 I am now an official member of the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe still a junior member - don't have a pair of T1s yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I sure have a desktop full of tubes all ready to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All of you have helped me arrive at this moment and great thanks for that. But really need to say a very special Arizona thanks to @hypnos1 and @UntilThen


----------



## pctazhp

OMG!!!! Air Supply - Lost in Love. The base definition I'm hearing out of the HD700s is of another world!!! The layering of vocals and instruments is absolutely spooky!!! Next up: Marianne Faithful - As Tears Go By!!! Hear come the tears ))))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> WAHOOOOOOHHH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pctazhp. I think we both feel this way now. Me happy to see you so happy. Enjoy ! Be prepared for many sleepless night. You need 24 hours for Elise to be primed but agree she surprised even from out of the box. Also go easy with the tube rolling. Don't do one every 30 mins. Wait for tubes to be cool before changing.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> OMG!!!! Air Supply - Lost in Love. The base definition I'm hearing out of the HD700s is of another world!!! The layering of vocals and instruments is absolutely spooky!!! Next up: Marianne Faithful - As Tears Go By!!! Hear come the tears ))))


 
 Stay with the HD700 for a while. Practically any headphones sounds good ...but then you start your journey of discovery of better sound.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Headphone listening is awesome with a good setup. Different experience from HiFi and in most cases much better.
  
 All those songs I love too...let me spin it now. Yay Air Supply....cheers to the baby boomers !!!


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> WAHOOOOOOHHH        Elise has arrive, stock tubes installed and burning in - 30 minutes and counting !!!! Listening to Glenn Campbell and Bobbie Gentry duets - don't ask me why - I'm so excited right now I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing.:eek:
> 
> My HD700s have never come close to sounding this good !!!!!!!!
> 
> ...




Congrats, 
I'm sure you will love it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Stay with the HD700 for a while. Practically any headphones sounds good ...but then you start your journey of discovery of better sound....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks UT. I will for sure take your advice on the tube rolling and sticking with the HD700 for now. Honestly, I am having so much fun just listening right now I don't feel like changing anything))) To use a very old cliche, I'm truly hearing things in every recording I listens to that I've never heard before. I really don't think I have ever had an audio experience like this. And for sure - yay for baby boomers)))) 
  
 Also, to be perfectly honest I sort of thought all you guys were kind of nuts and prone to blatant over-statement. Now I realize how restrained you have been in your choice of words )))


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> OMG!!!! Air Supply - Lost in Love. The base definition I'm hearing out of the HD700s is of another world!!! The layering of vocals and instruments is absolutely spooky!!! Next up: Marianne Faithful - As Tears Go By!!! Hear come the tears ))))




Congrats on the Elise arrival, pctazhp!!

Enjoy!!


----------



## aqsw

I took out my 5998s and put in my $3.00 6080 Chathams I got on Ebay. With stock drivers it sounds wonderful. No distortion till 2 or 3 oclock, which is way too loud anyways.
Maybe the 5998s are a problem. Going to try the Mazda drivers which have always been a trainwreck with the 5998s tonight with the 6080s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Also, to be perfectly honest I sort of thought all you guys were kind of nuts and prone to blatant over-statement. Now I realize how restrained you have been in your choice of words )))




I love it 

Enjoy the tele transportation to the place and moment the music is being made in


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I took out my 5998s and put in my $3.00 6080 Chathams I got on Ebay. With stock drivers it sounds wonderful. No distortion till 2 or 3 oclock, which is way too loud anyways.
> Maybe the 5998s are a problem. Going to try the Mazda drivers which have always been a trainwreck with the 5998s tonight with the 6080s.




Sounds good, aqsw!!

Hope you find all is well with the 6080's!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Listening to Santana - Caravanserai (1972) [DSD]
  
 I am teleported to HEAVEN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 WOW many congratulations to you pctazhp, you'll feel this with every song  The game just started, the bank will be broken next...


pctazhp said:


> Also, to be perfectly honest I sort of thought all you guys were kind of nuts and prone to blatant over-statement. Now I realize how restrained you have been in your choice of words )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks UT. I will for sure take your advice on the tube rolling and sticking with the HD700 for now. Honestly, I am having so much fun just listening right now I don't feel like changing anything))) To use a very old cliche, I'm truly hearing things in every recording I listens to that I've never heard before. I really don't think I have ever had an audio experience like this. And for sure - yay for baby boomers))))
> 
> Also, to be perfectly honest I sort of thought all you guys were kind of nuts and prone to blatant over-statement. Now I realize how restrained you have been in your choice of words )))


 

 Yes it's no over statements although it does really look like we're some crazy audio nuts let loose. It's an inner expression manifested in words.
  
 Elise sound is a high fidelity sound. Notes are ultra clear and they come fast and precise. You'll feel the warm and lusciousness of a good tube amp sound. Every song you play sound like never before. You tell yourself it's too hard to believe. Fast transient response is Elise trademark but she can be equally good with soft, soothing classical pieces. There is no way I'd go back to ss amps.
  
 Then you begin to sit and listen for hours and your better half have a hard time trying to speak to you.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Do you realise that tubes are extremely high voltage. I feel my body in a constant electrical charge. Could be one reason why the music sound and *feels* so good. !!!
> 
> ...and we know who have been buying all the 5998.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry UT, but the thanks will have to be right now, lol - dualling, for me, is "A Bridge Too Far" I'm afraid! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The hum that I and JV found with the C3g as power _might _just point to a problem - ie. the C3g's gain and transconductance are a good bit higher than the EL3N, so perhaps doubling the EL3N could possibly replicate this problem?...just a wild guess...but more 'power to your elbow' if you do go ahead, M...I wish you all the best! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..
  
 ps. I am in fact _doubling_ my thanks for pushing me into trying the single EL3N as output...to verify the 'miracle' re. my 'weak' Osram A1834, I put in my new curved-bottom-base Osram with it...and its still holding its own!..._*unbelievable!!*_...what _has_ Elise managed to do to it? - magical indeed, lol!! Her second name is now _definitely_ 'MERLIN'...looks like I have an Hermaphrodite!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> WAHOOOOOOHHH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And CHEERS! to you too, pct...great news on her arrival, and even _greater_ news on your impressions (and joy!) at such an early stage already. Yet another who will need to keep a close watch on that ticker, lol...so much excitement in store!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. A hearty *WELCOME TO THE CLUB*_*!*_, to be sure...now you _too_ are going to be suffering sleep deprivation _*big time, lol!* _





...but it's all in a good cause..._*mon ami!*_...and now the (careful!) rolling begins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N and Mullard 6080*
  
 My pair of EL3Ns have burn in past 50 hours and it's a different tone now. Sounding more lush and warm and at the same time clear and airy. There's a stronger bass presence now, even with T1 headphone. High notes are so pleasing now and midrange has morphed into a sound that would have you sit transfixed for hours listening to your music. What you hear are clear instruments separation and yet this is intricately sewn together as a delicate musical composition. Welcome to quality sound.
  
 It is in this context, I feel the brighter and energetic Mullard 6080 power tubes, brings an exciting sound flavour to the mix. I will recommend this power tube too as it's more readily available and much cheaper than 5998. Of course I still prefer the 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Sorry UT, but the thanks will have to be right now, lol - dualling, for me, is "A Bridge Too Far" I'm afraid!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 'A Bridge Too Far' is one of my favourite wartime movie. I think this might make me decide to abandon the dual EL3N project.
  
 For the simple reason that I'm getting perfect sound with EL3N and 5998. There is no lacking in power and control here. On the contrary, this is epic combination that will drive any headphones well in the 32 to 600 ohms range.
  
 Besides I still have to try four EL3N... six EL3Ns could be my Waterloo moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 p/s when you get your Porsche 911, just enjoy the drive. Don't take it over the cliff.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello everybody - this is especially for the lurkers around this thread.
  
 Because of the recent findings on this thread, I was recently looking into trying EL3N tubes with another of my amps. Unfortunately the maker of my amp had informed me the current draw (1A each) from these EL3Ns is too much for my amp which could damage it's heater circuit. I would like to caution anybody looking to try these tubes on another amp for the reason above. 
  
 Furthermore, for the sake of not jeopardizing what appears to be one of the greatest discoveries of in recent history of tube rolling, please, if at all possible, keep EL3N's only for the Elise - so this surreal synergy can still be experienced by Elise owners before these tubes are depleted forever.


----------



## jerick70

pctazhp said:


> WAHOOOOOOHHH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Time for an assault on your auditory senses!  Your are going to LOVE the Elise!!!!!!!


----------



## mordy

Hi pztazhp,
  
 Welcome to the Elise club! Be prepared for listening more to music than ever before! Even though the Elise sounds great out of the box, it needs some 150 hours to reach full potential.
  
 UT,
  
 You asked me about $5 tubes - remember? How about under $2.00 tubes, including shipping? The 6BL7 is the ultimate bargain in high fidelity tubes. Since I am still waiting for my EL3N adapters, I can continue for now to enjoy my best setup: 6BL7 and FDD20 as drivers with Mullard 6080 as power tubes.
  
 I have come to the conclusion that driver tubes and power tubes have different functions (no surprise there, eh?) and that combining four identical tubes does not result in the best sound in the Elise.
  
 I tried four 6BL7 in the Elise. The sound was hum free at my listening levels, but there was a lack a quickness and dynamics to the sound. As a matter of fact, I had a similar experience trying four 6080 tubes (yes, 2.5A tubes as drivers). The excitement and liveliness was missing.
  
 Plugged in the 6BL7/FDD20 as drivers with the Mullard 6080, moved my balance control to 1/3 FDD20 and 2/3 6BL7, and all is well - no, perfect. Sounds doubtful if the EL3N combo is going to trump this, but I got to believe everybody here who says that these are the best by a large margin
  
 It is really easy to balance the sound, just close the eyes and move the slider until the sound image is perfectly centered. Always ends up 33%/67% no matter what I play.
  
 Lorspeaker: I did try the VE Monk earbuds in the Elise. Sounds really good.
  
 BTW, I already have a name for an upgraded version of the Elise (if there is going to be one) - ELSIE ......lol


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Listening to Santana - Caravanserai (1972) [DSD]
> 
> I am teleported to HEAVEN
> 
> WOW many congratulations to you pctazhp, you'll feel this with every song  The game just started, the bank will be broken next...




I love the Caravansari album!! Great stuff!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Plugged in the 6BL7/FDD20 as drivers with the Mullard 6080, moved my balance control to 1/3 FDD20 and 2/3 6BL7, and all is well - no, perfect. Sounds doubtful if the EL3N combo is going to trump this, but I got to believe everybody here who says that these are the best by a large margin
> 
> It is really easy to balance the sound, just close the eyes and move the slider until the sound image is perfectly centered. Always ends up 33%/67% no matter what I play.




Hello Mordy...

Sounds good for running through an amp, to use the balance control to even out the differing gains of 6BL7/FDD20..

But, sadly, not "out of the box possible for headphone listeners.

:mad:


----------



## UntilThen

*C3G and GE 6AS7GA*
  
 A day in the life of UT. I can't get over the gorgeous sound I'm getting. Especially I can't get over the C3G. This has to be one of the best drivers in Elise. My preferences are changing right before my eyes...or should I say my ears. I'm craving details and clarity. This setup is euphonic, 3D, detoxing and holographic. If you're feeling low, pop these tubes in and you're guaranteed to be transport into Elise Wonderland. GE 6AS7GA, those who have this power tube, will know it has a very lovely mids and Cassandra Wilson's bass. Low and deep, it will smooth out any unwanted perky highs. The end result here is a sound that is revealing, super imaging, excellent soundstage and pure musicality. Try this in Elise, if you're not satisfied, get $1 from me.
  
 With these tubes, I can give my EL3N and 5998 a rest, saving it up for the special occasion. I can assure you, there's not much difference in sonic enjoyment between these and the Benchmark.
  
 Cheers to us LUCKY Elise owners.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *C3G and GE 6AS7GA*
> 
> A day in the life of UT. I can't get over the gorgeous sound I'm getting. Especially I can't get over the C3G. This has to be one of the best drivers in Elise. My preferences are changing right before my eyes...or should I say my ears. I'm craving details and clarity. This setup is euphonic, 3D, detoxing and holographic. If you're feeling low, pop these tubes in and you're guaranteed to be transport into Elise Wonderland. GE 6AS7GA, those who have this power tube, will know it has a very lovely mids and Cassandra Wilson's bass. Low and deep, it will smooth out any unwanted perky highs. The end result here is a sound that is revealing, super imaging, excellent soundstage and pure musicality. Try this in Elise, if you're not satisfied, get $1 from me.
> 
> ...




Looks good, too!!

I have all the said tubes, will pop these in, in a bit 

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

If you have the performance of a lifetime, you need the can can gals. These are beautiful. Is it sheer luck that these 3 landed on my lap? Seriously I could not have pick 3 better headphones for myself. I roll headphones as much as I roll tubes now. Each one has a different sound signature.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> *C3G and GE 6AS7GA*
> 
> A day in the life of UT. I can't get over the gorgeous sound I'm getting. Especially I can't get over the C3G. This has to be one of the best drivers in Elise. My preferences are changing right before my eyes...or should I say my ears. I'm craving details and clarity. This setup is euphonic, 3D, detoxing and holographic. If you're feeling low, pop these tubes in and you're guaranteed to be transport into Elise Wonderland. GE 6AS7GA, those who have this power tube, will know it has a very lovely mids and Cassandra Wilson's bass. Low and deep, it will smooth out any unwanted perky highs. The end result here is a sound that is revealing, super imaging, excellent soundstage and pure musicality. Try this in Elise, if you're not satisfied, get $1 from me.
> 
> ...


 
 I was slow on the uptake in ordering Mrs. Xuling's C3G adapters so for now my C3Gs will remain in the Little Dot, which likely will never be turned on in my household again. 
  
 I'm about to take H1's advice and go to sleep so my "ticker" remains in service. But right how I'm listening to Diana Krall's The Look of Love. I saw her live one year at CES in Las Vegas. But I've never appreciated her voice the way I do tonight. And the piano on that track is just amazing - haunting.
  
 I can't wait to wake up in the morning )))


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  I wouldn't leave my Elise on while you sleep if I were you. I don't leave tube amps on for long without being attended. Burn in will come gradually. There's no hurry. Just listen to it normally and hear for yourself how Elise transform. It's fun.
  
 Envy that you saw Diana Krall live. !!!
  
 Ok I don't know what 'ticker' means. I thought you meant leaving Elise on while you sleep. Is there another ticker?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Envy that you saw Diana Krall live. !!!




I have seen her live, too. She came to town with Chris Botti opening for her. 

Chris' band easily stole the show, big time. I listen to Botti much more than Krall these days 

You know Diana Krall is Mrs Elvis Costello, right?


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Was hoping that you would take me up on the BL/FDD combo - I think you mentioned that you have a balance control on your old receiver.
  
 Anyhow, the EL3N tubes usually are red on the bottom half. Why? Does it have anything to do with the Postal Service? Does anybody know what their intended use was for? Radios?
  
 Last fall I passed by a local fire station not far from me and found this perfectly restored 1939 Mack fire truck parked outside:
  
  




  
  
 The year and the color reminds me of the EL3N....


----------



## UntilThen

This Elvis Costello? No I didn't know... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Chris  Botti next but for now..
  
 It's Lucinda Williams and EC.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow this is good.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Wow this is good.




 Agree!! Thanks to @JazzVinyl for the heads up on Botti. Great rendition of Rodrigo's Adagio:
  
 I got started on Fleetwood Mack and can't go to sleep. Deep Arizona roots: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=15545717


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Anyhow, the EL3N tubes usually are red on the bottom half. Why? Does it have anything to do with the Postal Service? Does anybody know what their intended use was for? Radios?


 
  
 Yes, output pentode for radios. The color was probably chosen for show. There was a whole 'Red Series' of tubes.
  

http://radio-roehren-etc.de/index.php/roehrengeschichte/3-die-roten-roehren-von-philips-teil-i


----------



## mordy

Very beautiful performance...
  
 How about putting some zingg into it?
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQe0rP2tKks&feature=iv&src_vid=XngXWmVQ-B0&annotation_id=annotation_754411
  
 380,000 people couldn't be wrong.....
  
 BTW, the VE Monk ear buds for $5 are the best value in audio - highly recommended!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Agree!! Thanks to @JazzVinyl for the heads up on Botti. Great rendition of Rodrigo's Adagio:
> 
> I got started on Fleetwood Mack and can't go to sleep. Deep Arizona roots: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=15545717


 

 Really need to visit my brother in Arizona one day. Thanks for sharing that ... I have no idea.
  
 Rumours by Fleetwood Mac is one of the audiophile album around that I like. Try Dreams at 96/24 ...simply stunning.
  
 Using HD650 and the bass is pounding hard. I believe your HD700 bass hits harder.


----------



## UntilThen

Yup Mordy. I can't buy anymore tubes as I have to spend my $5 on my next TOTL earbud as recommended by @Lorspeaker . Then I will do a 5 pages review of it.


----------



## UntilThen

If this is true then you should get the T1 original at a lower cost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  and somehow I kinda believe him.
  
post #954
  
 ....hmmmm HD800.... maybe I should save my $5 for that.
  
  
  
 But then this tells me not to bother about the HD800. The morale of the story .... you'll get one hundred and one opinions.
  
post #933
  
  
  
 Here's a good review of the T1 G2 but IMHO, I believe similar results could be achieve with T1 original and Elise. I agree with the new lighter 7N OCC cable on the Gen 2 though as my T1 original really feels light with similar upgraded cable and 1.5m length is perfect for me. PERFECT. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://headphone.guru/the-beyerdynamics-t1-second-generation-flagship-headphones-a-2-headphone-amplifier-the-desktop-dynamic-duo/


----------



## UntilThen

*EL3N and GE 6AS7GA*
  
 What if I told you that you can get good sound for not too much money? You'll be happy right? Well read on...
 If you snapped a bargain, the EL3Ns would have cost you 33 euros a pair (but it's sold out now) and the GE 6AS7GA used to be selling for $22 a pair at Parts Express (again sold out).
  
 I'll just go over the sound signature of the GE 6AS7GA as I've covered EL3N quite a bit already in earlier postings. Of the 3 power tubes that I like besides the 5998, namely the Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080 and GE 6AS7GA, the latter has the warmest sound and a very satisfying bass. The GE is not as super clear and airy as the Chatham or the Mullard but it's a very relax tone. If you just want to relax with music, the GE is perfect. It soothes your cares away. Save on the psychologist's bill. This power tube is your path to longevity. It's better than Tai Chi. 
  
 Paired with the EL3N drivers, this combo is a must in your collection. 
  

  
 I shall now take a break and just enjoy this pairing. Indeed I find it a good alternative to the Benchmark. This is very relaxing but yet still clear and detail in it's presentation.
  
 ps .... there's a lot of GE 6AS7GA on eBay cheap. You're in luck. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
@Lord Raven is selling his too and he's bringing me a pair of copper grid ones.


----------



## Lord Raven

I left Elise for several nights for burn it, it is built like a tank, nothing wrong happened  I slept next to it so I thoroughly enjoyed the burning in process haha... Elise as a table lamp works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> @pctazhp  I wouldn't leave my Elise on while you sleep if I were you. I don't leave tube amps on for long without being attended. Burn in will come gradually. There's no hurry. Just listen to it normally and hear for yourself how Elise transform. It's fun.
> 
> Envy that you saw Diana Krall live. !!!
> 
> Ok I don't know what 'ticker' means. I thought you meant leaving Elise on while you sleep. Is there another ticker?


 
  
 LOL He is taking orders now, UT you are going to take prices of ordinary tubes very high if you keep reviewing them out in the open like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only have one pair of copper (gold) rods GE 6AS7GA  It is not available anywhere, I was lucky to own one, thank God!!!
  


untilthen said:


> *EL3N and GE 6AS7GA*
> 
> What if I told you that you can get good sound for not too much money? You'll be happy right? Well read on...
> If you snapped a bargain, the EL3Ns would have cost you 33 euros a pair (but it's sold out now) and the GE 6AS7GA used to be selling for $22 a pair at Parts Express (again sold out).
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for acknowledging the GE 6AS7GA, UT. I don't own the C3G but you owe me a dollar now LOL Makes me 99$ short of buying a pair of C3G haha
  
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> *C3G and GE 6AS7GA*
> 
> A day in the life of UT. I can't get over the gorgeous sound I'm getting. Especially I can't get over the C3G. This has to be one of the best drivers in Elise. My preferences are changing right before my eyes...or should I say my ears. I'm craving details and clarity. This setup is euphonic, 3D, detoxing and holographic. If you're feeling low, pop these tubes in and you're guaranteed to be transport into Elise Wonderland. GE 6AS7GA, those who have this power tube, will know it has a very lovely mids and Cassandra Wilson's bass. Low and deep, it will smooth out any unwanted perky highs. The end result here is a sound that is revealing, super imaging, excellent soundstage and pure musicality. Try this in Elise, if you're not satisfied, get $1 from me.
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi pztazhp,
> 
> Welcome to the Elise club! Be prepared for listening more to music than ever before! Even though the Elise sounds great out of the box, it needs some 150 hours to reach full potential.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...hopefully you too will be seduced by the EL3N sound. And of course, the beauty of these is..._*no need for external power supply**!*_...which I am coming to appreciate more and more as time goes by! (perhaps I'm just getting lazy, even though I only have to reach for an in-line switch, lol! Plus - you know me - _*nice 'n neat!!*_








...
  


pctazhp said:


> I was slow on the uptake in ordering Mrs. Xuling's C3G adapters so for now my C3Gs will remain in the Little Dot, which likely will never be turned on in my household again.
> 
> I'm about to take H1's advice and go to sleep so my "ticker" remains in service. But right how I'm listening to Diana Krall's The Look of Love. I saw her live one year at CES in Las Vegas. But I've never appreciated her voice the way I do tonight. And the piano on that track is just amazing - haunting.
> 
> I can't wait to wake up in the morning )))


 
  
 Yeah pct...Elise does _*wonders*_ for female voices...and pianos...and male voices...and guitars (both acoustic and electric)...and saxophones...and cellos...and violins...and organs...and..............!!  And just you wait 'til the EL3Ns are in the driving seat - if they're not already there, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
 ps "Ticker" = _heart__!_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> If this is true then you should get the T1 original at a lower cost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo UT...as I mentioned a good while back, the second I heard the EL3Ns in place I _*knew*_* there and then* the originals would have all their "niggles" completely ironed out...which has only been further reinforced with later listening - _*no need*_ to spend all that extra for the Gen 2 IMHO...Elise + EL3N _*does it all!!*_








...(put the money saved to a nice pair of 5998s - or even GECs, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps. The original's cable is also exceptionally good...especially for 'stock' - Beyer certainly didn't skimp here, lol!...(am not even tempted to splice in my pure silver jobbie!!). Just a shame it isn't detachable...mind you, there's something to be said for _direct_ soldering - I noticed a definite improvement when I did this in my LittleDot MKIV SE...out of necessity, actually, due to failure of the so-called 'top quality' Neutrik HP socket...not impressed was I!! Found similar improvement when doing same with my Dynaudio speakers - I'm a firm believer in : "The best connector is _*no*_ connector", LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## UntilThen

2nd day running and I'm still using EL3N and GE 6AS7GA. This tone is just right for me now. At 5am in the morning, you need a relaxing tone. 
  
*To summarise my preferred power tubes:-*
  
*Tung Sol 5998 *- Nothing much more needs to be said about this tube except I wish they are $50 for a NOS pair.
  
*Chatham 6AS7G *- This is the best sounding 6AS7G, besides it's cousin the GEC 6AS7G. Fresh, crisp and airy and a rhythmic bass.
  
*Mullard 6080 / CV2984* - IMO the best sounding and best value 6080 out there, besides the rare and expensive Bendix 6080WB graphite plates. Energetic, lively listen. This sounds bright in the high notes and punchy in the bass, with a sweet midrange.
  
*GE 6AS7GA *- This is the best bargain power tube out there. Some are GE made for HP but IMO they are the same. This has a relax tone and yet clear enough to enjoy quality music. I find this better than the RCA 6AS7G and the Svetlana 6H13C. This is the opposite spectrum of the Mullard 6080. If you need to dial down brightness, this will be useful. It also feels a dull warm and lush, which suits me to a T on the occasions when I need it.
  
 There are a lot of power tubes out there but I feel with these 4, I've my bases covered basically.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 and all those lovers of T1 pairing with Elise, I've this to add about this marvellous headphone.
  
 Prior to the arrival of the T1, I love the HE560 and thought it's the ideal pairing with Elise. Prior to HE560, I love the HD650 and thought it a best pairing with Elise. All 3 sounds amazing with Elise. If I didn't sell off my DT880 Pro, I'm sure it would have been great with Elise too.
  
 However now, I find myself reaching for the T1 all the time. There are a few factors that makes me do this. This sounds right to me with it's expansive soundstage and uncanny ability to pinpoint locations of instruments and musicians or what you call superb imaging. It feels neutral and revealing. Treble is sharp and clear. Mids are a bid recessed compared to HE560 which has a more forward presentation. It also sounds leaner than HE560. I wouldn't have love the T1 if I listen to it from my son's Schitt Modi 2 Uber and Schitt Magni 2 Uber. The same applies to HE560. That amp and dac combo just make those headphones sound digital and lean and bright and lacking bass definition. It's a very polite bass.
  
 With Elise in the driving seat and the tubes that I've covered recently, both T1 and HE560 now becomes an instrument of pure sonic delight. For me, the T1 just feels right in this setup. HE560 sounds gorgeous. I could live with this too but as in everything, there's a preference. HD650 is such a lovely headphone is my opinion. For the price it is now, I think it's a great bargain. Everyone loves it's charming mids and mid bass hump, which is very gratifying. It has a warm and lush tone and a relaxing nature but sacrificing high notes clarity. On a good amp, the top end opens up and everything tightens up and it can sound staggeringly good but it will never unravel the revealing qualities of the T1 or the HE560.
  
_*This head-fi journey of mine that started only recently has culminated in a sound so rich and enjoyable, it's unbelievable.*_ I believe the best is yet to come. There are better pickings. As in all things in life, one needs to know when it's time to rest content and be satisfied. For me, this summit is my peak. Sure I'd like to dream of a DNA Stratus or a HeadAmp GS-X where amps are concerned or a HD800S or Stax SR-009 but that is for dreaming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Journey's end in my search for quality sound because I believe in proper allocation of funds for my other pursuits. Namely travels with my wife, my better half.
  




  
 Ps I didn't mention DAC because IMHO the NAD D1050 is the sweetest sounding dac in my books as it is a gift from my wife. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it contributes to a 'right' tone for me. Lastly I wouldn't change my source for the world in the iMac with 1Tb of hard disk. With a 27" screen, it's only function is as a music player and an instrument to the World Wide Web for me. Music from my Apple lossless files played through Audirvana Plus is simply high fidelity. CD quality sound from Tidal streaming is also a godsend. I don't need anything more. I have system synergy. 
  
 This is my head-fi system.... UNTIL THEN.


----------



## UntilThen

This is better


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Asked my friend the retired A-V engineer about running double EL3N tubes as drivers (4 with two in each socket using Mrs X adapter). If I understood him correctly, running these tubes in series would double the the voltage requirement to 2 x 6.3V = 12.6V; running them in parallel would double the current draw to 2 x 0.9A = 1.8A.
  
 In addition, he did not think that there would be any sonic benefit.
  
 I may not have quoted right, so do not rely on this information, but it does sound very interesting. As for adapters using two single triodes, it just makes makes them into dual triodes and does not present a problem if used in place of dual triodes.
  
 On the other hand he said that running two dual triodes in series as in the Elise could have a sonic benefit. When using a single dual triode there is the possibility of crosstalk/leakage between the dual triodes, and this may be avoided by having two dual triodes and using one of them in each channel. (Hope I got this right)
  
 Hi UT,
  
 There are RCA labeled 6AS7GA tubes with copper rods that sound the same as the GE 6AS7GA tubes - also available a low prices.
  
 Then there is the Sylvania 6080WC that has a dual label 6AS7GA - not sure if they sound the same as the GE and RCA 6AS7GA - I think that these are 6080 tubes.
  
 Technically, the 6AS7GA is a 6AS7 in a tubular envelope, but to me they sound different than the 6AS7(G)
  tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Technically, the 6AS7GA is a 6AS7 in a tubular envelope, but to me they sound different than the 6AS7(G)
> tubes.


 
 For sure they sound different to the 6AS7G. To my ears, the GE 6AS7GA sounds better than lower end 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes in this case, I don't think the copper grid generates more SQ... I like the Parts Express version.... cheap, *new* and sounds good.


----------



## aqsw

%​


aqsw said:


> I took out my 5998s and put in my $3.00 6080 Chathams I got on Ebay. With stock drivers it sounds wonderful. No distortion till 2 or 3 oclock, which is way too loud anyways.
> Maybe the 5998s are a problem. Going to try the Mazda drivers which have always been a trainwreck with the 5998s tonight with the 6080s.




Well, that experiment didnt work. The Mazdas were worse than usual.I guess Im stuck with a non rolling Elise I can only hope the El3n works properly. If not, shes going up for sale.


----------



## UntilThen

Well @mordy I got another RCA 6AS7GA to make my solo tube a pair. Currently running one RCA and one GE 6AS7GA in Elise and sound just as good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Current tube


 New tube


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This Elvis Costello? No I didn't know... :bigsmile_face:   Chris  Botti next but for now..




Yes, THAT Elvis Costello. They were married at Elton John's estate in England, and she has since given birth to twins.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> Was hoping that you would take me up on the BL/FDD combo - I think you mentioned that you have a balance control on your old receiver.




Sorry Mordy, the fact that you must use two different external power supplies, to attain mis-matched gain factors just kills the fun of 6BL7/FDD20 for me. 

May work for preamp only users, but that is not me, 85% of the time.


Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I don't like using external power 12v only exception being Fdd20 because it sounds really good.


----------



## Lord Raven

Living the year 1997 in DSD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Awesome soundtracks of an equally amazing movie!
  
 Setup for tonight is:
  
*GEEK PULSE SFI>FELIKS ELISE>PHILIPS MINIWATT FDD20>MULLARD 6080WA*
  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS EL3N and ECC31 adapters are arriving today in the morning, I will be thrilled to receive them and finally test all my 6N7G tube types 
  
 Madza 6N7G "Wall of Sound"
 Visseaux 6N7G "Joy Bringers"
 Fiver 6N7G "Frecnh Toasts" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mullard ECC31 "Sunshine Bringers"


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> %
> Well, that experiment didnt work. The Mazdas were worse than usual.I guess Im stuck with a non rolling Elise I can only hope the El3n works properly. If not, shes going up for sale.


 
 I really think you should contact Lukasz about it. It seems something is wrong with your Elise. I don't think it's the tubes. Also, I wouldn't personally sell a defect product, unless I labeled it accordingly of course!
  
 Hope it works out for you. If you have any questions at all, I'm sure someone here can/will answer. I sure will try!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Living the year 1997 in DSD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Why are the Fivres called "French Toast"? They're made in Italy


----------



## pctazhp

Been pretty busy with family today, so listening time has been limited. As excited I am about my new toy, family still comes first.  But I have been listening every chance I get )))). Right now I'm in no hurry to start rolling tubes, primarily for 3 reasons. (1) Want to give the Elise time to settle in (2) I just love how it is sounding and get lost in the music, and (3) I'm lazy!!!
  
 @UntilThen. I really hope you will visit your brother. I would love to meet you in person. You are a true celebrity ))))


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> %​Well, that experiment didnt work. The Mazdas were worse than usual.I guess Im stuck with a non rolling Elise I can only hope the El3n works properly. If not, shes going up for sale.




Hello aqsw...

Sorry to hear you still have distortions. I would definitely contact Lukansz and get the scoop on getting it fixed or replaced.

I would not give up on it, that easily.

:rolleyes:


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 and all those lovers of T1 pairing with Elise, I've this to add about this marvellous headphone.
> 
> Prior to the arrival of the T1, I love the HE560 and thought it's the ideal pairing with Elise. Prior to HE560, I love the HD650 and thought it a best pairing with Elise. All 3 sounds amazing with Elise. If I didn't sell off my DT880 Pro, I'm sure it would have been great with Elise too.
> 
> ...


 
 Anyone interested in joining a pool to bet on when UT will own a pair of HD800S's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If we each contribute $100 and 15 of us join, the winner could buy his own pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I predict by March 1, 2016 ))))


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Why are the Fivres called "French Toast"? They're made in Italy


 
 LOL They have sweetness even on the humming adapters, I listen to them at breakfast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 They are grey glass straight bottles, I misquoted them above, my treasures are actually Fiver 6N7GT


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp, when Edmond Hillary reached the top of Mount Everest he turned to Tenzing and said 'Look mate, this is it. There ain't no mountain higher than this. We're done!'


----------



## Lord Raven

Now listening to Count Basie - Live at The Sands (1998) [DSD]
  
 I really really wish to own the version of music with Frank in DSD, I do have that in DVD though  
  
 Same setup for this album again, sounds just about right for the Jazz recording, I feel I am present at the venue and waiting for Frank Sinatra to show up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soul clap!!!!!
  
*GEEK PULSE SFI>FELIKS ELISE>PHILIPS MINIWATT FDD20>MULLARD 6080WA*


----------



## mordy

OK folks - we have three Elise owners that get unlistenable hum/distortion with headphones using the ST driver tubes: me, nephilim and aqsw. What do you make of that?


----------



## UntilThen

Try this on EL3N and GE 6AS7GA


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> OK folks - we have three Elise owners that get unlistenable hum/distortion with headphones using the ST driver tubes: me, nephilim and aqsw. What do you make of that?


 

 Talk to Lukasz ? 
  
 This is one sure way to determine if your unit is having a problem. Basic setup. So the only AC feed is to Elise. Do it in a spot away from all other gear. Make sure Elise AC plug is grounded.
  
 Portable source (eg. Fiio X5 or iPod) > Elise > headphone


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Talk to Lukasz ?
> 
> This is one sure way to determine if your unit is having a problem. Basic setup. So the only AC feed is to Elise. Do it in a spot away from all other gear. Make sure Elise AC plug is grounded.
> 
> Portable source (eg. Fiio X5 or iPod) > Elise > headphone


 
  
 That sucks, I think the same, do these steps and if you are sure that your Elise is problematic then talk to Lukasz. 
  
 I think all these three Elise are 120V either, the transformers hum too?
  
 I will add, take Elise to a friend's house or your office and try it there with your mobile phone or DAP feeding it with 3.5 jack to RCA cable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> OK folks - we have three Elise owners that get unlistenable hum/distortion with headphones using the ST driver tubes: me, nephilim and aqsw. What do you make of that?




I would be making inquiries to the manufacturer of the amp, asking about warranty repairs. 

:mad:


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I think all these three Elise are 120V either, the transformers hum too?




Neph's amp is 230/240 volt...

:mad:


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> That sucks, I think the same, do these steps and if you are sure that your Elise is problematic then talk to Lukasz.
> 
> I think all these three Elise are 120V either, the transformers hum too?
> 
> I will add, take Elise to a friend's house or your office and try it there with your mobile phone or DAP feeding it with 3.5 jack to RCA cable.




I took mine to my office. Same problem. I did not hook it up to a dap only, as that doesnt solve any problem. Nobody is going to listen to it that way. I know its not the dac 
or any otherr thing in the system, as my LC is running on the very same system through my balanced inputs on the dac. The LC sounds great.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I would be making inquiries to the manufacturer of the amp, asking about warranty repairs.


 

 That's the logical thing to do.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I took mine to my office. Same problem. I did not hook it up to a dap only, as that doesnt solve any problem. Nobody is going to listen to it that way. I know its not the dac
> or any otherr thing in the system, as my LC is running on the very same system through my balanced inputs on the dac. The LC sounds great.




I only listen to mine via a dap or a turntable. No Stand alone dac or computer in my system, do wish you would try just dap straight to Elise, just to be able to say, we did.


----------



## UntilThen

Mine has the whole chain  
  
 You name it I've got it...   iMac > DAC > Elise > headphones or I could go CD player > Elise > receiver > speakers or headphones. Dead silent.
  
 Speak to the manufacturer. I can't offer a better advice.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> pctazhp, when Edmond Hillary reached the top of Mount Everest he turned to Tenzing and said 'Look mate, this is it. There ain't no mountain higher than this. We're done!'


 
 So Hill*i*ary Clinton claimed that when she was born in 1947 her mother named her after Sir Edmond Hillary. Only problem was Edmond Hillary - a hitherto obscure Auckland beekeeper - did not scale Mount Everest until 1953 and become a household name when our future president (and purveyor of many similar fairy tales) was already 6 years old.
  
 Anyway, I hope one of those trips you are planning for your poor wife is not to the top of Mount Everest to commemorate your audio pinnacle )) Bring her to Arizona. I'll be sure to find a pair of HD800S's for you to audition


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> So Hill*i*ary Clinton claimed that when she was born in 1947 her mother named her after Sir Edmond Hillary. Only problem was Edmond Hillary - a hitherto obscure Auckland beekeeper - did not scale Mount Everest until 1953 and become a household name when our future president (and purveyor of many similar fairy tales) was already 6 years old.
> 
> Anyway, I hope one of those trips you are planning for your poor wife is not to the top of Mount Everest to commemorate your audio pinnacle )) Bring her to Arizona. I'll be sure to find a pair of HD800S's for you to audition


 

 So you're upgrading to HD800S ? I'll be coming then for sure.  You're a true Sennheiser fan. 
  
 Anyhoo stop confusing me with Hillary. I think it's time you pop in the Visseaux 6A6 with those white marshmallows and Tung Sol 7236. I want to know what you think of that combo. Pretty please... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 ps I'm not a mountain climber. My family is. A trip to Mt Kinabalu last year, saw me lounging by the pool sauna and jacuzzi whilst they climb the mountain with a guide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I miss the mountain top sunrise though...


----------



## UntilThen

Where's @pctazhp gone? Fainted from sonic delight? I'm putting in Visseaux 6A6 and Tung Sol 5998. Will show you a pic in sec. This is a mind blowing experience too.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Where's @pctazhp gone? Fainted from sonic delight? I'm putting in Visseaux 6A6 and Tung Sol 5998. Will show you a pic in sec. This is a mind blowing experience too.


 
 I'm here. Back rockin out tonight with Laura Branigan - Elise enhanced !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm here. Back rockin out tonight with Laura Branigan - Elise enhanced !!!!


 

 What? With V6 and T2? 
  
 Did you pop in Visseaux 6a6 and Tung Sol 7236?


----------



## UntilThen

*Visseaux 6A6 and Tung Sol 5998*
  
 This is Tango    Soooooo good.  You can get similar sound by putting in the 7236.
  
 My heart is breaking for aqsw. I wish his unit behaves and he can get to enjoy the Mazdas !!! This is high fidelity sonic juice. It will make you forget lunch.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> What? With V6 and T2?
> 
> Did you pop in Visseaux 6a6 and Tung Sol 7236?


 
 No. Still with stock tubes. Haven't had a lot of time today. So I'm just enjoying the initial burn-in. No new headphones. My HD700s are doing great )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> No. Still with stock tubes. Haven't had a lot of time today. So I'm just enjoying the initial burn-in. No new headphones. My HD700s are doing great )))


 
  
 Takes 10 mins to swap tubes.... I need you to hear this combo. You'll be dancing.
  
 This pair of Visseaux 6A6 cost me $36 ...... B A R G A I N.
  
 Oh wait... it's only $27.50 !!!
  
 Folks this ^^ is $2888 sound. You hear that @Lorspeaker ?
  
 Oh boy I forgot how good this setup sounds. It ain't that far from the Benchmark.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Takes 10 mins to swap tubes.... I need you to hear this combo. You'll be dancing.
> 
> This pair of Visseaux 6A6 cost me $36 ...... B A R G A I N.
> 
> ...


 

 Tomorrow. I promise )))


----------



## UntilThen

You take your time please... ..say it with a drawl


----------



## Lorspeaker

This is a runawaythread...n at a discounted runawayprice of 2888 

I'll join u at the pool instead of a hike to the top for some morn sun


----------



## UntilThen

Runaway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't you worry. It all comes back to Elise. From Hillary to Everest, from Geek to NAD, it all eventually comes back to Elise. 
  
 Which brings me to talk about my DAC. Now you don't hear me talk much about my DAC. That's because it came just a few weeks before Elise. So the NAD kind of got overshadowed. Also it is doing it's job so un obstructively. It is just pumping clean music through. Sure it does sound slightly on the warm side of neutral but I will not have it any other way. This is a very musical DAC/AMP. It is very detail and soundstage is wide. NAD and Arcam are known for being warm and musical with their audio gear.
  
 As I type, I'm listening on my T1 through the NAD D1050. The NAD is driving the T1 as steady as Lewis Hamilton. Using the asynchronous 24/192 USB input, music stream through from my iMac via Audirvana Plus effortlessly. On it's own, the NAD amp is very capable and produce a very sweet sound for amps in this category. I think you could even be happy living with this all in one unit. Unique styling and affordable price seals the deal.
  
 I'll leave you a review to read. http://headphone.guru/nad-d1050-review/
  
 And the obligatory photo...   oh did I say... NAD D1050 and Elise with T1 is like a marriage made in heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So fellow Elise owners, show me your DAC or source !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I was reading the original T1 impressions thread started in 2010. It's now 2016 and T1 is still going strong, having just been superseded by the Gen2.
  
 Then I saw this statement...
  
_'Glad your in the T1 camp and I can tell you with the Decware CSP-2 these cans are truly something special. The most involving non fatigue I have ever had and I am talking 8-10 hr sessions.'_
  
 and I think to myself, how true !!!  except in my case it's with a street car named Desire....oh well you know what I mean... a tube amp named Elise.
  
 It's been 4 days with T1, 6 days with EL3N and just slightly more than 2 months with Elise. Feels like 2 years. !!!  
  
 2016 has started with a big BANG. Let it go on forever.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi Folks....*IMPORTANT REMINDER.....PLEASE READ, EVERYONE...*
  
Given the recent occasional problems with using non-stock tubes, it's time for a reality check, I'm afraid...
I must remind you that all these latest tubes are *NOT* *YET* authorised/listed as compatible for use in the Elise - it was configured for 6SN7 drivers, or equivalent.
  
Although I can claim credit for most of the alternative tubes we are adopting, I must also take a certain amount of blame for when they don't perform exactly as they do in my own unit, or others' who are equally fortunate. There are many variables in set-up and environment that can - and _will_ - often affect the final outcome. This is *especially* true in cases where we are using external power supplies, as with the 12V FDD20, for example...and third party _adapters_.
  
Most other manufacturers would have _*expressly*_ washed their hands of users who stray away from original specification, but Lukasz and the Feliks-Audio guys have been _*more*_ than lenient and understanding in the face of this 'experimentation', and for which I personally am _*most*_ grateful (and not a little surprised!!).
  
In our excitement at the results that many have had with such tubes, perhaps we have lost sight of this amp's first-rate performance with the tubes it was intended for, and should really judge it _*much more*_ on that...and I have been more guilty in this respect than anyone else, alas! - and for which I apologise to the Feliks guys...(and those who are not the "Lucky Ones").  *We cannot really blame them when encountering **aforementioned problems!*
  
Having said this, it is still rather strange why _some_ should not be able to enjoy the same success as others - apart from the obvious areas such as grounding issues. And so, except for the FDD20, I would ask *ALL* those who have tried the C3g; ECC31; 6N7G to let me know their findings re. any kind of problem (or not!), and I shall try to see if Lukasz can shed any light on such differences in results. But I must admit that if I were him, I would say these tubes are so far off original spec'n that it's amazing they work _*at all well!*_.. However, as I know he is more forgiving than I(lol!), he may well take the time and trouble to at least _try_ and find some kind of answer...so your findings, please!! 









...
  
 ps.  In case I didn't make it clear, can I also please hear from all those who have *not* had any problems...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Good on you for initiating this @hypnos1. I feel it's about time we've an open discussion. Number #22 has not a single issue. I don't run anything special in my setup. No special power cord, USB cable or RCA interconnects. I'm using plain vanilla ones. I've the most audio gear in my setup. My setup works with iMac > NAD d1050 > Elise > headphones  or  CD player > Elise as preamp > receiver > speakers or headphones.
  
 It is no secret what tubes I like. There are far too many posts and pictures from me. Everyone of them work flawlessly with 3rd party adapters from mainly 2 sources - Suzier and Mrs Xu Ling. I have by far the most 'exotic' tubes amongst anyone here and every single one of them work without any hum or distortion. I even managed to turn up my volume to max with no music playing and it's still pitch silence. Only the 12V at 3pm - that's 3/4 volume, with no music playing did I start to hear interference noise from the cheap 12V adapter. $20.
  
 There is only one tube that has a problem and we all know what that tube is. 1635 and it shouldn't be used. It's just not right for Elise.
  
 Ps I also don't get interference from wifi, mobile phone right next to Elise. I have 2 PCs in the room, a printer, fan, fancy lamp, cable modem, PC speakers and subwoofer. There are a few power points and power boards in my Den. It's full of electronic gadgets. At one time. I even move in the CD player and receiver and bookshelf speakers with the 12" subwoofer into the same room. And I'm humphrey. Just sharing my situation here.
  
 Pss I even had 2 head-fi systems *running simultaneously* using 2 different tube amps and different source and headphones, *all on the same big desk.* No interference whatsoever or hum or feedback. I did this to compare the 2 system sound. Just for the fun of it.
  
 The 2 systems are:-
  
 iPod > Darkvoice 336se > HD650
  
 iMac > NAD d1050 > Elise > HE560.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Good on you for initiating this @hypnos1. I feel it's about time we've an open discussion. Number #22 has not a single issue. I don't run anything special in my setup. No special power cord, USB cable or RCA interconnects. I'm using plain vanilla ones. I've the most audio gear in my setup. My setup works with iMac > NAD d1050 > Elise > headphones  or  CD player > Elise as preamp > receiver > speakers or headphones.
> 
> It is no secret what tubes I like. There are far too many posts and pictures from me. Everyone of them work flawlessly with 3rd party adapters from mainly 2 sources - Suzier and Mrs Xu Ling. I have by far the most 'exotic' tubes amongst anyone here and every single one of them work without any hum or distortion. I even managed to turn up my volume to max with no music playing and it's still pitch silence. Only the 12V at 3pm - that's 3/4 volume, with no music playing did I start to hear interference noise from the cheap 12V adapter. $20.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks UT...and now we need feedback from as many others as possible - _*please!!......CHEERS!*_


----------



## Lord Raven

I had a lot of problems, with hum and noise, listed previously. Everyone knows about my case already, ECC31 and all variants had hum, I touched the tubes and it became louder. I spent hundreds of dollars, more than the cost of Elise on Mazda, Visseaux and Fiver and couldn't listen to them all. I lost my mind when FDD20 had hum, blamed my setup not the Elise amplifier, changed to 3 different external power supplies. 

Finally I cured it. At one point I thought I'm stuck with stock tubes forever, they were pitch black. I never gave up. 

I wish good luck to everybody having issues with Elise. Most of the times it's a technical problem on our end. I even sold my 32 Ohms headphones to get 300 Ohms HD600 for better integration.

Just sharing my experience! 

Cheers


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Good on you for initiating this @hypnos1. I feel it's about time we've an open discussion. Number #22 has not a single issue. I don't run anything special in my setup. No special power cord, USB cable or RCA interconnects. I'm using plain vanilla ones. I've the most audio gear in my setup. My setup works with iMac > NAD d1050 > Elise > headphones  or  CD player > Elise as preamp > receiver > speakers or headphones.
> 
> It is no secret what tubes I like. There are far too many posts and pictures from me. Everyone of them work flawlessly with 3rd party adapters from mainly 2 sources - Suzier and Mrs Xu Ling. I have by far the most 'exotic' tubes amongst anyone here and every single one of them work without any hum or distortion. I even managed to turn up my volume to max with no music playing and it's still pitch silence. Only the 12V at 3pm - that's 3/4 volume, with no music playing did I start to hear interference noise from the cheap 12V adapter. $20.
> 
> ...


 
 Will you fork over some of them this way!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....*PHILIPS EL3N are on its way*


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> Will you fork over some of them this way!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And I hope you _too_, B-60, are one of us "Lucky Ones", lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Actually, I've a feeling the EL3N is going to prove much more "user friendly" than some of our other alternatives...


----------



## Oskari

I haven't noticed any problems. Old Mac mini > USB DAC > Elise with C3g drivers > HD 600. Grounded sockets and power cords. The original power cord is useless here because the amp came from the UK, so I use the power cord of a long-departed computer monitor.
  
 I should add that the sub-€20 DAC is USB-powered.


----------



## Lord Raven

EL3N adapters are in the Holy land of  Mecca  I will get them tomorrow, the lazy main post office needs to send it to the area post office. If I goto the main office they refuse to give it to me LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, I don't get any notification if someone gives me a reputation or tags me in their post, why is that so? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  
 PS Next day I am flying to Oz to see UT LOL Hum free guys unite for the party


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP David Bowie


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> EL3N adapters are in the Holy land of  Mecca  I will get them tomorrow, the lazy main post office needs to send it to the area post office. If I goto the main office they refuse to give it to me LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi LR...shan't go via rep'n or tag (???) so I'll just say here and now...*you lucky so-and-so!!!*...give @UntilThen a hug from me, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...careful now!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.   We want some pics!!


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen I just dropped in the 6A6s. I'm going to wait until tomorrow to change the power tubes to the 7236s.
  
 So far, the 6A6s certainly are a step up from the stock drivers. The highs more detailed, yet are also sweeter and certainly help the HD700s with their tendency to sound a little dry. The sound stage is better defined - more "holographic" for lack of a better word.
  
 Bass is not quite as pronounced but probably more accurate. On a recording like NSYNC's The Lion Sleeps Tonight the bass slam is certainly there.
  
 I had to drop the volume down about a notch from about 10 to 9. With the stock drivers and nothing playing, there is zero hum at 3 - didn't go higher than that. With the 6A6's, hum is slightly noticeable at 12, but the HD700s would be on fire if there were music playing at that level.
  
 Only negative is those monster marshmallows!!!!!
  
 PS. I feel it almost sacrilegious to listen to anyone's Lion Sleeps Tonight other than The Kingston Trio's version. But nobody today has even heard of The Kingston Trio so I won't even go there)))


----------



## hypnos1

Well folks...to reinstate a more positive note after my recent _*'IMPORTANT REMINDER'*_...decided to check out my miraculously revived Osram A1834 (in case I was dreaming it!), and Jeff Lynn's Musical "War of the Worlds" is sounding better than ever, lol!...with EL3Ns in the driving seat, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Have already posted quite enough words on this subject...so I'll just leave you with a few parting ones (for now, that is!)....ie. _*mind-bogglingly breathtaking!!!...*_need I actually say more, lol?!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.  Keep your own expletives coming guys!...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> RIP David Bowie


 

 I'm especially saddened by this news.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> EL3N adapters are in the Holy land of  Mecca  I will get them tomorrow, the lazy main post office needs to send it to the area post office. If I goto the main office they refuse to give it to me LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You've my PM with my mobile number. Call me when you arrive. Safe journey.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Well folks...to reinstate a more positive note after my recent _*'IMPORTANT REMINDER'*_...decided to check out my miraculously revived Osram A1834 (in case I was dreaming it!), and Jeff Lynn's Musical "War of the Worlds" is sounding better than ever, lol!...with EL3Ns in the driving seat, of course!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 With less than 2 hours on my 6A6s, I can already see where this is headed. By the time I get to the EL3Ns I'll be gasping for air at UT's memorial Edmund Hillary audio summit!!! Many expletives to follow))))


----------



## UntilThen

In memory of one of my favourite singer.... also one of my fav song.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen I just dropped in the 6A6s. I'm going to wait until tomorrow to change the power tubes to the 7236s.
> 
> So far, the 6A6s certainly are a step up from the stock drivers. The highs more detailed, yet are also sweeter and certainly help the HD700s with their tendency to sound a little dry. The sound stage is better defined - more "holographic" for lack of a better word.
> 
> ...


 
 LOL @pctazhp you pop in the driver without the power. Nevertheless, as you wish. This way you can hear for yourself each tube characteristics.
  
 All your observations are true. 6A6 as well as cousins 6N7G will sound louder as the gain is higher at 35 whereas 6SN7 is 20. So you'll feel you need to lower the volume. Sound is more forward than 6SN7. You're closer to the musicians whereas with the 6SN7, you are in the 10th row seat.
  
 Stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB does have a warm darker tone with a gratifying bass but 6A6 bass is more forceful and pronounced. You're right, it's a different bass presentation. I feel 6N7G is even more pronounced than 6A6. 6A6 seems less aggressive and energetic which does comes in useful. I actually prefer that presentation.
  
 As you correctly mentioned, high notes will be more detailed and clear with the 6A6.
  
 You will with time get to love the look of the white marshmallows. You also happen to have one of the best 6A6 in the Visseaux. I'm glad you bought it.
  
 It's a shame you have slight hum at 12noon with no music playing. That's feedback from something but as you mentioned, that should not be a problem because you'll not get to that volume level with music playing without destroying your ears. FYI, with no music playing and 6A6 with adapters, I can go to max with no noticeable hum or distortion.
  
 Lastly, I would have expected you to drop in the 7236 power first as that will be a significant improvement over the stock power. I'm keen to hear your impressions on the Visseaux 6A6 and TungSol 7236. I heard that setup just before shipping out the 7236 to you and it's one of my better combo sound. Only the 5998 does a better job.
  
 Enjoy !


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I had a lot of problems, with hum and noise, listed previously. Everyone knows about my case already, ECC31 and all variants had hum, I touched the tubes and it became louder. I spent hundreds of dollars, more than the cost of Elise on Mazda, Visseaux and Fiver and couldn't listen to them all. I lost my mind when FDD20 had hum, blamed my setup not the Elise amplifier, changed to 3 different external power supplies.
> 
> Finally I cured it. At one point I thought I'm stuck with stock tubes forever, they were pitch black. I never gave up.
> 
> ...


 

 I appauld you and your efforts to cure the distortion and hum problems. As we can clearly see, in your case, it's a grounding issue but you went to great lengths to resolve that. Certainly spend a great deal buying proper grounded power cords, boards and eliminating each gear one by one. I think this is very important, to methodically identify what the hum issue is.
  
 I mean I'm sure just using the Geek alone you have no hum and have no need for special grounding but with Elise you have to. That in no way means that Elise is inferior. I believe tube amps are more prone to feedback and hums than ss amps. However once you cure the problems and the cause of it, the sonic delights far out weighs all the pains you have to go to it.
  
 In my case, I needn't have to do anything special with Elise. She is just so clear and sweet sounding and behaving as quietly as a good ss amp.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm glad I didn't chase the pair of used Telefunken C3Gs. It sold for US$103. Besides one pair of Lorenz c3g will last me a long time and I don't listen to c3g all the time. There are better sounding driver tubes in my collection for Elise.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Re important reminder:
  
 First, thanks for all the advice from a number of people on diagnosing the hum in my Elise.
  
 Took the Elise, disconnected everything and brought it upstairs in my house to a room that has new wiring and is as far as possible from my listening area. Plugged in my iPod/iPhone and my headphones and nothing else. (Put the amp on a cushion because of the spikes so as not to mar the floor).
  
 Mullard 6080 as powers and Mazda 6SN7G drivers (that I know from experience produce hum.) To level the playing field (pun intended) no external power supplies or voltage regulators or 6/12V combinations.
  




  
 The amp still hums, but less than before. Strangely enough, the iPhone hums less than my old 80GB iPod.
 With the iPhone the hum is faint at low to normal volume but increases with higher volume.
  
 The hum is not objectionable at normal volume, but it is there.
  
 Plugged the Elise back into my system, but now with complete stock tubes TS and Svetlana. There is less hum with these tubes than other combinations, but the hum is still there and noticeable with the headphones.
  
 As stated before, listening through my integrated amp there is no hum unless at much too loud listening levels, and connecting the headphones to the integrated amp produces no hum unless at way too loud levels.
  
 Switching out the Elise there is zero hum in my system, even at full volume, speakers or headphones,  - dead quiet. It appears to me that either I did not notice the hum when I got the Elise, or that the hum appeared later after using it.
  
 BTW, the stock tubes are quite nice, but still far from the magical sound we get with the best tubes.
  
_Conclusion: Something is amiss. _I am not willing to give up my Elise unless I get a replacement,  As said, without headphone listening I can manage almost hum free.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy, thanks for the invaluable feedback. I do think your unit have a genuine problem and that you should speak to the manufacturer about it. Remember it has a 2 years warranty and I know Lukasz will go to great lengths to make sure his customers are happy with their products, even if it means giving you a new unit.
  
 One thing though, when you isolate Elise with iPhone in a special room, did you try it with the stock tubes? We need to establish if with stock tubes and most basic setup there is or isn't hum/distortion when listening with headphone.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

I should share my experience with the Darkvoice 336se. For those with this tube amp, you'll know owners have been plagued with hums on some tubes and not others. There is no pattern. It can be new or old tubes and different types and brands.
  
 This is so bad that someone found out a way to fix the hum of certain tubes completely. It's named after the person who did this. It's call the Fitz's mod. It's well known in the Darkvoice 336se thread which is now pretty dead as people move on to other tube amps.
  
 As a Darkvoice 336se and Elise owner, this is what I have experienced. I have several tubes that hums (some loudly notably the russian Fotons) in the DV336se but they are completely silent in Elise, to my delight. I was about to bin them. 
  
 This has no bearings on those with a genuine problematic Elise but just sharing that some tubes and adapters hums and there is no explanation as to why on the DV336se.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> With less than 2 hours on my 6A6s, I can already see where this is headed. By the time I get to the EL3Ns I'll be gasping for air at UT's memorial Edmund Hillary audio summit!!! Many expletives to follow))))


 
  
 "Gasping for air?", pct....you'll be needing an oxygen mask, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....I'm getting excited for you already!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> With less than 2 hours on my 6A6s, I can already see where this is headed. By the time I get to the EL3Ns I'll be gasping for air at UT's memorial Edmund Hillary audio summit!!! Many expletives to follow))))


 

 You need to switch out those Svetlana for the Tung Sol 7236 or if you have the Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080. This is more important IMO. 
  
 FYI, I just listened to Visseaux 6A6 with 5998 yesterday and it wasn't very far behind the EL3N and 5998. So you're very close to the summit already but not quite yet. Hillary is waving at you from the top. Hurry up will ya. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Visseaux 6A6 is nearly identical to Visseaux 6N7G aka JV's Joybringers.
  
 ps it's a documented fact that Hillary has a T1 at the summit.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Re important reminder:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...thanks for your findings with Elise in a different environment. It is a shame indeed that the Mazdas still hum excessively. Before we can say the amp is actually faulty, as UT says, you need to test in that position with the stock tubes first. And the C3gs? Plus, do you have any other 6N7G types...and the ECC31?... And do you have the better quality adapters?
  
 Plus, mains hum problems (if any) will, of course, be present throughout the house, and may possibly need further investigation...
  
 Please check/re-check all these...but if all is well with the stock tubes, then this isn't a warranty issue, of course. However, if *all* the areas mentioned can definitely be discounted, then yours will be an example I can put to Lukasz, in case he has any other ideas...
  
 Look forward to your further investigations and findings, m....


----------



## UntilThen

OMG how did I miss this deal in August 2015? Comes with 2 GEC 6AS7G............. at only AUD$1000 for the lot including Amperex 6j8 tubes.
  

  
  
 IT'S OK !!! THIS IS WAY BETTER !!! I WOULDN'T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY.


----------



## JazzVinyl

*Off Topic Alert*

We went and saw the movie "The Revenant"...

Sorry, but no one could survive getting in those mountain rivers in winter, come out and sleep the night and live!
You would die of exposure.

If you cannot change into dry clothes immediately after getting head to toe wet...your not going to live to tell any tales.

Could not believe how many times these boys went splashing around in mountain streams, fully clothed, only to keep marching or lay down and sleep the night.

All of your extremities would have fallen off from frostbite, and your screams of agony would have been heard for miles, until you died from exposure.

No blue lips, no uncontrollable shaking, was seen.

Also..streams in the mountains that time of year (Winter) have very little water in them. Every stream depicted in the movie looked like late spring run-off, lots of water in the streams.

*Now, back to your regularly scheduled topics...*


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> *Off Topic Alert*
> 
> We went and saw the movie "The Revenant"...


 
 Ugh I've seen the Revenant and I would like to erase it from my mind. Give me 3 hours with Elise + EL3N + 5998 and Beyer T1 instead....plus CD quality music on Tidal....and the occasional video on Tidal 
  
 Monkey business hahaha


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You need to switch out those Svetlana for the Tung Sol 7236 or if you have the Chatham 6AS7G or Mullard 6080. This is more important IMO.
> 
> FYI, I just listened to Visseaux 6A6 with 5998 yesterday and it wasn't very far behind the EL3N and 5998. So you're very close to the summit already but not quite yet. Hillary is waving at you from the top. Hurry up will ya.
> 
> ...




  
 Your are certainly persistent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ))) OK, I found time to put the 7236s in. Don't have time to supply H! with a good list of expletives right now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll just say "PURE ECSTASY" - as in emotion))))
  
 I can't believe you are a Carpenter's fan!!! I've been afraid to admit publicly that I am too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a beautiful voice she had. And I have always admired the production artistry of their recordings.
  
 Have to go now and quickly find an oxygen mask - or better yet


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Your are certainly persistent
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well I'm sure you're singing like Karen Carpenter now... remember to sing it to Elise ok ....not to me !!!
  
 Top Of The World was written in 1972 by Richard Carpenter. It reached No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1973. That is one year before I went into the army. Nostalgia. I feel young again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps... if you think that is pure ecstasy wait till you try EL3N and Tung Sol 7236....better still 5998   but like I say.... you're quite close to the summit... just a few more miles LOL.
  
_Such a feeling is coming over me 
There is wonder in 'most everything I see
Not a cloud in the sky, got the sun in my eyes
And I won't be surprised if it's a dream

Everything I want the world to be
Is now coming true especially for me
And the reason is clear, it's because you are here
You're the nearest thing to heaven that I've seen

I'm on the top of the world looking down on creation
And the only explanation I can find
Is the love that I've found ever since you've been around
Your love's put me at the top of the world_


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> ps... if you think that is pure ecstasy wait till you try EL3N and Tung Sol 7236....better still 5998   but like I say.... you're quite close to the summit... just a few more miles LOL.


 
  
 I can't believe how much better it has gotten in the last hour!!!!! How could it possibly get any better than this??????
  
 I've got the EL3Ns and adapters just sitting in the drawer ready to go, but will save that for later. I kind of feel I should try my FDD20's first - RVC and Philips Miniwatts. But really don't want to bother with the external power supply, so probably will just go straight to the EL3Ns. Also, I think I can put my hands on a good pair of 5998s soon.
  
 So now the question is: to T1 or not??? What would the late Sir Edmund do???? Probably get the HD800S


----------



## UntilThen

Edmond has the T1. T for Top.

With EL3N and 5998 with T1, it's no longer a dream. Now go and sing that song again.

Further down the track you should also try the Philips Miniwatt FDD20s. That's another mountain top experience.

I think you have all the essential tubes. Just enjoy it with your HD700. Any upgrades can come slowly.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Edmond has the T1. T for Top.
> 
> With EL3N and 5998 with T1, it's no longer a dream. Now go and sing that song again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sound advice. Pun intended, of course)) Slow it will be


----------



## UntilThen

Another advice. Enjoy your music whilst getting more hours on Elise and the tubes. At the 100 hours mark, Elise will take flight and soar towards the clouds. Hold on tight and don't let go. 
  
 I'm listening on EL3N and GE 6AS7GA now and I repeat, this power tube is worth having for a few dollars. I have just gotten another RCA 6AS7GA to make it a pair. I find the tone from 6AS7GA just right. It's getting more playtime than my Chatham 6AS7G and Mullard 6080.
  
 Also since you have the C3Gs, you should get the adapters.... hahaha. Then you can stop buying tubes. 
  
 C3G and 5998 brings a different tone. One that will have you asking.. "Can it get any better?"


----------



## UntilThen

HD650 really sounds amazing with Elise + EL3N + GE 6AS7GA. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

There are a lot of combinations that work exceedingly well in this amp.

Some of my Fav's in no particular order: (Driver/Powers)

FDD20/5998
EL3N/5998
C3gS/6080
6N7G/6080
7N7/6080
6SN7/5998
ECC31/6AS7G
2031/6080

And on and on one could go.

You could substitute the GE 6AS7GA for the 6080 and 6AS7G listed above, and be quite happy.

Most important first step for a new Elise owner is to upgrade those Russian Power tubes.

The GE 6AS7GA's from Parts Express are inexpensive, and a great sounding upgrade, highly recommended.

Cheers to us, the LUCKY ONES!!



PS: Oh and lets add:

C3gS/FDD20


----------



## UntilThen

Too many choices. Too many good combinations. I'm done with my impressions of tubes for Elise. It's music time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's another tribute for David Bowie.


----------



## DecentLevi

UT your contributions to the Elise threads have been valuable and widely appreciated! But yes, take a vacation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess I should get thos GE 6AS7GA while they're still around. Also just curious, are they still #4 on your overall list?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> UT your contributions to the Elise threads have been valuable and widely appreciated! But yes, take a vacation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm humbled by all the appreciations. I have met many good friends here. I was just having a wonderful time and I hope all of you will get to enjoy Elise with these tubes and your headphones. Let's not forget there are many here who have contributed greatly and from whom I've learn a lot.
  
 I wouldn't put a ranking on the power tubes. I feel that with those 4, you can mix and match with all these drivers with extremely good results depending on what tone you're seeking. They are very versatile and I would recommend all 4 whole heartedly with Elise. 
  
 Driver tubes

Philips EL3N
Philips Miniwatt FDD20
RVC FDD20
Mullard ECC31
Mazda 6N7G
Visseaux 6N7G / 6A6
Fivre 6N7G brown base and horns / 6A6
National Union 6A6
C3G
7N7 various brands
Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears
Sylvania 6SN7WGT
Voskhod 6N23P 1975
RCA 6BQ7A
  
 Far too many for me to list everything. There are some really good 6SN7s which I did not spend my money on. Likewise some exotic power tubes, namely GEC 6AS7G and WE 421A. Elise sounds good with all these drivers paired with these:-
  
 Power tubes

Tung Sol 5998
Chatham 6AS7G
Mullard 6080 / CV2984
GE 6AS7GA


----------



## UntilThen

Amazing sound from EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. EL3N pairs very well with all 4 power tubes. Swapping between T1, HE560 and HD650, this tone is too good. All headphones sounded good with this setup. EL3N really open up past the 40 hours mark. 
  
@pctazhp the sooner you put in the EL3Ns, the better. I'm getting a real blast here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@supersonic395 and @PerfectAnalog I can't wait to see the smile on your face. Oh @nojdrof too. So many joining the Elise clan soon. Where's @puffmtd ? Let's hear your impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@jerick70 not the time to slack off now mate. Get on your T1 and Elise and give us the low down. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh yes @B-60 have you ordered Elise yet? EL3N won't play by itself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@DecentLevi I can't wait for you to get onboard.
  
@tjw321 how's Bimby with Elise?


----------



## Lord Raven

I am so sad, we lost the starman... I would recommend everyone to listen to David's last album, it is sppoky as hell...
  
 My favorite of his is The Space Oddity.. Chris Hadfield, the Canadian space commander, version of Space Oddity was the first song I heard of Bowie's, that was how I discovered him in my life. Today I heard the original version and I am mind blown, I am really very sad!!!
  
 Collecting all the Bowie albums is my on my target list. I am happy that I discovered him in his life, even for a few days, I am a blackstar!
  
 Quote:


lord raven said:


> Listening to David Bowie - Blackstar 24/96
> 
> Mind = Blown


----------



## Lord Raven

Please welcome the mighty EL3N  

My first impression is, soft and sweet and dream like. 

Detailed, I can listen to the room reservation, airy female vocals. Bass is just as I prefer. Stereo separation in wide as hell, I can point at instruments with my fingers. Vocals are melting my heart, perfect centered image. 

I have reached my end game today, every other driver is over shadowed with this discovery. 

However, there is a very very very faint hum I notice, maybe it will go away with time. These were my first impressions. 

One word to describe this sound is a Dream. 

Dream sound right out of the box. 

Listened to 
David Bowie - Fame 
Patricia Barber - Code Cool (Awesome bass notes) 
Rebecca Pigeon - Spanish Harlem

3 songs and I'm mind blown.. Need more time to burn these babies in.. 

Cheers to all the lucky ones! 




Setup:

*GEEK>ELISE>EL3N>5998>DREAMSOUND*


----------



## B-60

Hi UT!
 Elise is on order, Lukasz will email me when the unit gets in production.
 Two months of waiting now, It is time to sell my Lyl 2, I am sure I will no longer need this and just making my life simple.
 Cheers


----------



## Lord Raven

My jaw dropped to the floor when I played brothers in arms 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 EL3N has the control of a magician, I can listen to the detail I have never heard before. 
  
 The quick pause to check the faintest I noticed earlier, IT'S GONE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am considering myself the luckiest person to have achieved this audio nirvana, I never ever thought in my wildest of dreams to spend this amount of money, time and effort... patience was the key for me!!!!! 
  
 One thing that I obviously noticed is that with every other famous combo, I felt ear fatigue, irritation or some sort, I got some really really sensitive ears and this is what makes me switchgear quite often. With EL3N I feel no pain, fatigue of any sort, this means there is no change in the FR, EL3N is superlinear and I can testify!!!!!
  
 This is my 15/10 as well!!!
  
 Now playing: Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition (2005) [DSD]
  

  
*GEEK>ELISE>EL3N>5998>DREAMSOUND*


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Amazing sound from EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. EL3N pairs very well with all 4 power tubes. Swapping between T1, HE560 and HD650, this tone is too good. All headphones sounded good with this setup. EL3N really open up past the 40 hours mark.
> 
> @pctazhp the sooner you put in the EL3Ns, the better. I'm getting a real blast here.


 
 UT:  When I woke up this morning I told my wife how much I love and appreciate her. I explained to her that compared to you her nagging me about taking out the garbage is nothing ))))
  
 OK. So I took out the EL3Ns and adapters from the drawer. I had never used this kind of socket before and it felt like I was going to break the tubes getting them into the adapters. Finally did it, put them into the Elise and with great anticipation turned it on, plugged in the HD700s and turned up the volume. OH NO (((( Nothing in the right channel and muffled in the left (or maybe the opposite, I don't remember) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So pulled them out and re-seated the tubes in the adapters (much easier this time). Plugged everything back in and tried again. YAHOOOOO!!!! Sonic nirvana!!!! Agree with Lord Raven: 15/10 - at least based on my experience so far with the Elise. And zero hum!!!!


----------



## vince741

Damn you all.
 I've been a long time lurker on this thread and the hype is unreal. I saw a matched pair of EL3N on ebay and made an offer ($30 + shipping) and thought that if I won the auction, I'll buy the Elise.
 Long story short, I'm waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice .


----------



## pctazhp

One of my all time favorite albums is John Stewart's "The Phoenix Concerts-Live". http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-phoenix-concerts-live-mw0000645753
  
 If for no other reason it is a classic because of the "Never Going Back to Nashville Anymore" track - although my favorite track on the album is "California Bloodlines". Steward sang with my beloved Kingston Trio for several years)))
  
 Through EL3N/Elise, it is pure heaven for this old septuagenarian


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> Damn you all.
> I've been a long time lurker on this thread and the hype is unreal. I saw a matched pair of EL3N on ebay and made an offer ($30 + shipping) and thought that if I won the auction, I'll buy the Elise.
> Long story short, I'm waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice .


 

 Welcome))) You have no idea of the ride you are in for!!!
  
 Be sure to buy a pair of the EL3N adapters: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Philips-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm


----------



## Lord Raven

That's the sweetest short story I have ever heard, welcome to the club of crazy and the lucky ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL 
  
 Quote:


vince741 said:


> Damn you all.
> I've been a long time lurker on this thread and the hype is unreal. I saw a matched pair of EL3N on ebay and made an offer ($30 + shipping) and thought that if I won the auction, I'll buy the Elise.
> Long story short, I'm waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice .


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Please welcome the mighty EL3N
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations on the Dreamsound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 !st impression of EL3N is simply awesome because it does sound different from other tubes. It gets better. I've not notice this with other tubes as evidently as on the EL3N. It does gets better when it reach ~40 hours. If you think it's smooth at the start, just wait till you hit that mark or around there. Right now, the sound I'm getting is really smooth, clear, detail and very linear across the FR. There's no sign of fatigue with extended listen. This tube is sweet sounding.
  
Hope the hum disappears. There's no hint of hum on mine. Not a whisper. I try to listen for it and all I hear is my own breathing. Make sure it's seated in the adapter properly. The tube I mean.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi UT!
> Elise is on order, Lukasz will email me when the unit gets in production.
> Two months of waiting now, It is time to sell my Lyl 2, I am sure I will no longer need this and just making my life simple.
> Cheers


 
 Well done B-60 !!! I just hope your HEX will work fine with Elise. This will be an interesting test. If not, you know what to do. If you can't get to the mountain then get the mountain to you. You need the summit headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> UT:  When I woke up this morning I told my wife how much I love and appreciate her. I explained to her that compared to you her nagging me about taking out the garbage is nothing ))))
> 
> OK. So I took out the EL3Ns and adapters from the drawer. I had never used this kind of socket before and it felt like I was going to break the tubes getting them into the adapters. Finally did it, put them into the Elise and with great anticipation turned it on, plugged in the HD700s and turned up the volume. OH NO (((( Nothing in the right channel and muffled in the left (or maybe the opposite, I don't remember)
> 
> ...


 
 Well I'm glad I'm able to help you appreciate your wife's nagging more...ho ho ho 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's quite hard to insert the tubes initially. Those new springs are very tight fit. Once in it should sit securely. I never take my tubes out of the adapters since I got it in. I'm very happy to hear that you have zero hum. Way to go !!!
  
 More importantly, I'm glad to hear it's worth my nagging. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  15/10 huh? Ok I wasn't dreaming then.


----------



## JazzVinyl

vince741 said:


> Damn you all.
> I've been a long time lurker on this thread and the hype is unreal. I saw a matched pair of EL3N on ebay and made an offer ($30 + shipping) and thought that if I won the auction, I'll buy the Elise.
> Long story short, I'm waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice .




WOW!! What a deal you got, on the EL3N's Vince!!

And congrats on ordering the Elise. You will love it!

And start out with the knowledge to soar right to the pinacle!

Lucky YOU!

Now get the 6AS7GA's from Parts Express, much better power tubes than what comes with the Elise:

http://www.parts-express.com/6as7ga-ge-jan-vacuum-tube--072-612

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> My jaw dropped to the floor when I played brothers in arms
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's so lovely to hear this. I can feel your excitement LR. 
  
 Really happy to hear that the faint hum is gone now too. 
  
 I have this CD and it's an all time favourite of mine. Welcome to the summit. Isn't the view lovely from up here?


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Damn you all.
> I've been a long time lurker on this thread and the hype is unreal. I saw a matched pair of EL3N on ebay and made an offer ($30 + shipping) and thought that if I won the auction, I'll buy the Elise.
> Long story short, I'm waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice .


 

 You mean the hype is real? Hahaha...
  
 Welcome Vince. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm really excited to see new people coming onboard. Elise is special. Really special.
  
 That's a great deal on the EL3N. See it's fated. Elise is meant for you.


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Please welcome the mighty EL3N
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whoa!, LR...dream-like already?...yet another "Lucky One" who's gonna be lost somewhere up *beyond* the clouds in 40+hrs' burn-in time, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Well, *mon ami* (blame @Lorspeaker!!), looks like all you guys who could hardly believe me when I went crazy over this tube owe me a _*very*_ large brandy, lol!...and I only ever drink Hennessy XO - if someone _else_ is buying, that is!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. Was going to say don't worry about early faint hum - very often happens with new tubes and adapters...but now don't really need to!! (thank goodness!)...
  
 Really glad you're liking it too, though....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...     CHEERS!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> UT:  When I woke up this morning I told my wife how much I love and appreciate her. I explained to her that compared to you her nagging me about taking out the garbage is nothing ))))
> 
> OK. So I took out the EL3Ns and adapters from the drawer. I had never used this kind of socket before and it felt like I was going to break the tubes getting them into the adapters. Finally did it, put them into the Elise and with great anticipation turned it on, plugged in the HD700s and turned up the volume. OH NO (((( Nothing in the right channel and muffled in the left (or maybe the opposite, I don't remember)
> 
> ...


 
  
 So glad you didn't panic _too_ much at first insertion, lol...you did just the right thing, lol!  And zero hum, even with new tubes and adapters?....can't be bad!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and 15/10 already? - you're gonna run out of numbers further in yet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad you too are loving this tube...it truly is a 'magical' one - especially in Elise (and with T1s!!). Look forward to your impressions as they mature...
  


vince741 said:


> Damn you all.
> I've been a long time lurker on this thread and the hype is unreal. I saw a matched pair of EL3N on ebay and made an offer ($30 + shipping) and thought that if I won the auction, I'll buy the Elise.
> Long story short, I'm waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice .


 
  
 Greetings, et..."soyez le bienvenu"...(is that right?!). Welcome indeed, "lurker"...there are a good few of you about, I suspect! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And I agree with you re. the 'unreal hype'...and I am - nay, *we* are - quite sure you will find that it is well-founded...for a change!!...in fact I'll bet you yourself will add even _more_ hype, mom ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope the wait won't be _too_ long a one...and you have undoubtedly done the wise thing - ie. flown straight to UT's 'summit'...by helicopter, rather than on foot!!! It has been quite a trek up to the EL3N, but boy, has it been worth it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yes, as has been mentioned already, treat those wonderful drivers to some good powers...they - and *you* - deserve them!...
  


pctazhp said:


> One of my all time favorite albums is John Stewart's "The Phoenix Concerts-Live". http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-phoenix-concerts-live-mw0000645753
> 
> If for no other reason it is a classic because of the "Never Going Back to Nashville Anymore" track - although my favorite track on the album is "California Bloodlines". Steward sang with my beloved Kingston Trio for several years)))
> 
> *Through EL3N/Elise, it is pure heaven* for this old septuagenarian


 
  
 So, pct - for you it is _heaven_, for LR _dreamland_...careful now, we really _are_ going to be accused of 'hype', lol!...and do we care?..._*no way!!!!*_...(notice the extra expletive?!) ...
  
 ps.....old?...you're in your prime, man...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(for evaluating _*good*_ sound, that is LOL!...).


----------



## UntilThen

Well folks it's my usual 4am listening session. Music from the lovely piano playing of Gregg Karukas. Elise is sounding really good now. That's what I've been saying for the last 2 months or more.
  
 2nd day with EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. This combo just sound right. I said that too of the EL3N and GE 6AS7GA combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Getting the T1 and EL3N working at about the same time is unreal for me. T1 came 2 days before I fire up the EL3Ns. I've been hit by an avalanche. I thought after 2 months with Elise, I'll settle down but look what happen now. This hobby is getting too far too fast for me. I think it's easier with long distance cycling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well it's summit now. No more climbing to do. So glad nearly everyone is up here now. Look at the view guys...and the morning sunrise on the peak of Mount Everest is unreal !!!
  
@Lorspeaker when are you joining us ??? Double barrel remember ?
  
 Elise is no hype. She's real. If it is hype you get $1 from me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@hypnos1 you will get a full glass of brandy from me. EL3N is your finest achievement and we're truly appreciative.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Re hum:
  
 Did some testing with the stock tubes and different electric outlets and music sources.
  
 There is no real difference in the amount of hum with the stock tubes using different electric circuits in my house, older (1962) and newer from some 15 years ago.
  
 Using an iPhone as a music source there is almost no hum with stock tubes using the headphones. A faint hum appears at 2 o'clock but it is masked by the music.
  
 Using my laptop (my usual music source via Musicbee) there is only faint hum at 1 o'clock using the stock tubes. This volume level is too loud for the headphones, so for all practical purposes no hum with headphone listening using the stock tubes.
  
 Listening via speakers no hum at practical play back levels. Turning up the amplifier volume to deafening levels without music results in hum - again of no practical consequence since I cannot play so loud.
  
 Conclusion: With stock tubes the hum is insignificant. Now I understand why I thought that the hum problem started after using the Elise for a while - it started with all the different non stock tubes we tried.
  
 What's next????
  
  
 Waiting for the EL3N adapters. My hope is that the EL3N tube are not going to generate any significant hum with a mu of 19 - the same as the 6BL7 tubes I use that are very quiet in my system.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Conclusion: With stock tubes the hum is insignificant. Now I understand why I thought that the hum problem started after using the Elise for a while - it started with all the different non stock tubes we tried.
> 
> What's next????




Hello Mordy, have you tested your wall outlets to make sure the ground is functioning properly?

Have one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Receptacle-Outlet-Ground-Tester/dp/B0012DHVQ0

?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well folks it's my usual 4am listening session. Music from the lovely piano playing of Gregg Karukas. Elise is sounding really good now. That's what I've been saying for the last 2 months or more.
> 
> 2nd day with EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. This combo just sound right. I said that too of the EL3N and GE 6AS7GA combo.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...you are _too_ kind - have you looked at the price of that XO, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but I shall keep you to that promise if I do ever manage to get down your way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And _*together*_, I truly believe we have indeed brought to the scene one of the greatest discoveries ever in head-fi.org land...(was it you, @JazzVinyl, who said something like that a while back, lol?)....Well, for us Elise owners anyway!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Re hum:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again mordy...and thanks for doing more testing.
  
 So then, we have established pretty well that all is _acceptable_ (strictly) as far as the Feliks guys are concerned, given stock works OK. So, _next?_....do you have another source with a good line out, like a decent CD player?
  
 You say you have 2 electric circuits - but are they not both fed from a single _*main*_ mains? If so, there's still the possibility of a slight amount of residual hum? Have you a _really_ good path to ground?
  
 And which adapters are you using for ECC31/6N7G - the cheaper ones? Do you get the same amount of hum from each adapter and tube combination?
  
 Have you tried different power cords?
  
 And, of course, is there no other Elise owner not too many miles away with whom you can meet half-way and compare, lol??!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I'm getting a bit desperate now, as you may have gathered! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 If you can try to eliminate all these possible culprits, then I will surely see if Lukasz has any other ideas as to cause...
  
 Actually, mordy, I am quietly confident that the EL3N will be _much_ more obliging... Elise seems to love this tube like no other, lol! I do sincerely hope so in your case also...I truly want you to be experiencing the kind of magic a good few of us are now enjoying...so fingers and toes are crossed!
  
 So keep investigating if you can, m....CHEERS...


----------



## aqsw

My fingers and toes are crossed for the EL3Ns also.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> ...
> @tjw321 how's Bimby with Elise?


 
 Awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've seen a lot of posts here which say that the DAC doesn't make much difference but my Ifi iDAC2 and my Schiit Multi-bit Bifrost have totally proven that to be wrong (to my ears). The Bifrost has a lovely analogue feel which really complements the Elise.
  
 My EL3N adapters have arrived in the UK. Just Customs and Excise holding them up, now. I'm hoping for a GE 6AS7GA/EL3N/Bimby session veeeerrrry soon...
  
 BTW, I'm pretty much hum-phrey except with my ATH-MSR7s. Even they aren't too bad, but it does remind me of the time I worked for a few days at an electrical sub-station. No wait, that was worse - 50Hz hum all day and no batteries allowed (I was actually working in the gas (methane, not petrol) pumping station which was co-located), which meant NO music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Weird that transformers the size of houses were okay, but batteries weren't.
  
 As soon as the music starts, though, it drowns out the hum. Every other headphone is silent though.
  
 I'm still trying to catch up since head-fi at the moment mostly looks like this to me:
  

  
 The problem is a bit of networking hardware which has (nearly) died. I should be back to 200Mbps as soon as I can get a replacement.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> My fingers and toes are crossed for the EL3Ns also.


 
  
 Yes indeed, aqsw...we mustn't forget you, lol! I hope and pray the EL3N cures _*all*_ ills...(I swear it somehow managed to resurrect my poorly Osram A1834!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Let's hope the 'magic' arrives soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Best,
 CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

tjw321 said:


> I've seen a lot of posts here which say that the DAC doesn't make much difference but my Ifi iDAC2 and my Schiit Multi-bit Bifrost have totally proven that to be wrong (to my ears). The Bifrost has a lovely analogue feel which really complements the Elise.




Hello tjw...

Your stand alone DAC's sound better, compared to what? 
Do you have any high-rez playing DAP's, to compare SQ to, or are you comparing the DAC's to "laptop sound" chips?

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> My fingers and toes are crossed for the EL3Ns also.


 

 I'll cross my finger, toes and body for you too aqsw !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't give up hope...too much sonic goodness in a distortion free Elise.
  
 With EL3N even Leonard sounds better.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you are _too_ kind - have you looked at the price of that XO, lol?!!


 
 I was going to give you Australian XO. They are very good and cheap lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


tjw321 said:


> Awesome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yes DAC will make a difference. I went from a cheap Aune T1 to ODAC then to NAD d1050 and I can tell the difference. There'll be better than my NAD for sure but it's good enough for now. It's musical to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It does look like you have a defective ATH-MSR7 since the other headphones are hum free. Oh wait what's the impedance on that HP?
  
 Just found out - ATH-MSR7 100db 35ohms.
  
 I'm so excited for you ...with the arrival of EL3N adapters soon. Make sure you give us a feedback.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello tjw...
> 
> Your stand alone DAC's sound better, compared to what?
> Do you have any high-rez playing DAP's, to compare SQ to, or are you comparing the DAC's to "laptop sound" chips?
> ...


 

 He's comparing one DAC to another DAC. 
  
 Ifi iDAC2 to his Schiit Multi-bit Bifrost.
  
 With his slow internet speed now, I don't think he can reply...until the 200Mbps is restored. WOW 200 ???


----------



## tjw321

UT is correct. I'm comparing the iDac2 and Bimby to an ODAC and a USB dongle-like DAC. The IDac2 does have an amp built-in but I'm using them with my Elise and an iCan resp.


----------



## UntilThen

@Lord Raven  did you try EL3N with Chatham 6AS7G? on your HD600.
  
 I see you love the EL3N and 5998 combo. Just wondering if you try EL3N with the other power tubes?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @Lord Raven
> did you try EL3N with Chatham 6AS7G? on your HD600.
> 
> I see you love the EL3N and 5998 combo. Just wondering if you try EL3N with the other power tubes?




I finally found another Chatham 6AS7G to make a pair - it's inbound.

I compared EL3N/5998 today to C3gS/5998 - in the DT-990's the C3gS sparkle in the upper frequencies
sounded awful good.

EL3N has a much "thicker" bottom end, but don't think the DT-990 needs that much low end.

Like we have been saying, lots of agreeable combos, with Elise, sure to please all.



PS - Fingers crossed for aqsw...


----------



## supersonic395

Any Pink Floyd fans here?
  
 Has anyone listened to Pigs (Three Different Ones) (lossless) through the ELise & T1's? How awesome is it?


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Let me clarify some things. My house was built in 1962. In 1984 some rooms were added to the back of my house, and one of those rooms is my listening room/office. Then there were a few renovations done downstairs and upstairs over the years.
  
 All the original 1962 outlets are of the two prong type - not grounded. All the newer are three prong - grounded. I only plug into the newer, grounded outlets. Tried various grounding methods, including running a grounding wire from the voltage regulator to the RCA plug, and running a heavy duty 4 gauge (!) grounding wire from the outlet strip to a copper water pipe. No improvement or more hum.
  
 My house probably has some 15 circuit breakers or more, so I assume that each one is an individual circuit. I tried plugging into an outlet totally different than my listening area. Using an iPhone as a music source lowered the hum , and trying the same set up in my room with the iPhone and using my regular power source did not change the hum. In other words, the electrical outlets did not make a difference.
  
 I am running a 6BL7 with an external power adapter and voltage regulator and this tube is relatively free from hum. For the other channel I am using a FDD20 tube with a special custom made adapter using an external power source and voltage regulator, and this channel hums noticeably using my headphones and ear buds. Likewise, the 6N7G with the adapters also hum noticeably with headphones.
  
 The hum is not heard listening through speakers at any semblance of normal sound levels; only through headphones plugged directly into the Elise.
  
 And with stock tubes and iPhone there is almost no hum at all, even with headphones (mine are 37 ohm).
  
 Tried some five different power cords I had lying around - no difference. If somebody can _promise _me that a Pangea or similar power cord will eliminate the hum I may consider it - if it doesn't cost more than an EL3N .....
  
  
 The bathtub adapters should arrive shortly - hopefully this will take care of everything!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I finally found another Chatham 6AS7G to make a pair - it's inbound.
> 
> I compared EL3N/5998 today to C3gS/5998 - in the DT-990's the C3gS sparkle in the upper frequencies
> sounded awful good.
> ...


 
 Yay for another Chatham 6AS7G. Now you have the 4 musketeers.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Any Pink Floyd fans here?
> 
> Has anyone listened to Pigs (Three Different Ones) (lossless) through the ELise & T1's? How awesome is it?


 

 Elise comes with Pink Floyd T shirts. Die hard fans here. I'll listen to Pigs later.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Elise comes with Pink Floyd T shirts. Die hard fans here. I'll listen to Pigs later.




What??? My Elise had *NO* Floyd Tee!!

I have Animals, lossless, and on Vinyl.

Very good idea...will play the Vinyl right now!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Floyd is on! BTW, which one is *PINK*?

Anyone else have Nick Mason's solo LP "Fictitious Sports"...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Mason%27s_Fictitious_Sports

I bet not 




.


----------



## JazzVinyl

*Big man, pig man
Ha, ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel
Ha, ha, charade you are*


----------



## UntilThen

I have 'When Pigs Fly' on Tidal ... A Tribute To Mark


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Tried some five different power cords I had lying around - no difference. If somebody can _promise_ me that a Pangea or similar power cord will eliminate the hum I may consider it - if it doesn't cost more than an EL3N .....




Mordy - have you ever spoken to Feliks Audio about the HUM problem?

:mad:


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Well done B-60 !!! I just hope your HEX will work fine with Elise. This will be an interesting test. If not, you know what to do. If you can't get to the mountain then get the mountain to you. You need the summit headphone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 hey, UT!
 HMMMM,what would that be????no matter what happens I am keeping my HEX to use with my Sony D-EJ01 cd player and my army of Minidisc recorders including the first son MZ-1 with optical out and at one point to be pared with Hugo for happy ending or maybe I use my MZ-3 with it....long time to go!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> hey, UT!
> HMMMM,what would that be????no matter what happens I am keeping my HEX to use with my Sony D-EJ01 cd player and my army of Minidisc recorders including the first son MZ-1 with optical out and at one point to be pared with Hugo for happy ending or maybe I use my MZ-3 with it....long time to go!


 

 Well try your HEX with Elise first. I'll be interested to know how that will go. If not, as you say keep the HEX with your Hugo and get a summit headphone - Beyer T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You should have kept the HE560. That works great with Elise. Absolutely great. However who knows, if your HEX works with Elise then it's a big bonus.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Well try your HEX with Elise first. I'll be interested to know how that will go. If not, as you say keep the HEX with your Hugo and get a summit headphone - Beyer T1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Will do, that is the original plan, BTW the LYR2 was always on the HI position with the HEX without any hum or hiss and any more then 11am was way to loud.I am hoping that between all the tubes that out there will find nice balance between the two....I hope...


----------



## B-60

lord raven said:


> Please welcome the mighty EL3N
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 NICE!!!!!Looks as good as UT set-up, btw what camera you are using?lots of digital noise ,auto setting on the camera?will always take the iso very high....o sorry no more money for better camera....sorry about your wallet...lol I just ordered EL3N tubes and I will not have an amp for 2 monts...it is all UT  fault....just all the hype about the EL3N will be like black diamanté.lol


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Will do, that is the original plan, BTW the LYR2 was always on the HI position with the HEX without any hum or hiss and any more then 11am was way to loud.I am hoping that between all the tubes that out there will find nice balance between the two....I hope...


 

 Lyr 2 is a hybrid tube/MOSFET with tons of power. 6 watts per channel at 32 ohms.
  
 I'm more concern with impedance matching between HEX and Elise because HEX is rated at 25ohms and Elise recommended range is 32 to 600ohms. Tubes will not change this.
  
 Did you ask Lukasz about using HEX with Elise?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Lyr 2 is a hybrid tube/MOSFET with tons of power. 6 watts per channel at 32 ohms.
> 
> I'm more concern with impedance matching between HEX and Elise because HEX is rated at 25ohms and Elise recommended range is 32 to 600ohms. Tubes will not change this.
> 
> Did you ask Lukasz about using HEX with Elise?


 
 No I did not, but I will on this note, thank you.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> No I did not, but I will on this note, thank you.


 

 If however you decide to keep the HEX with another suitable amp but you still like the gorgeous sound from Elise, then it's a simple matter of getting a T1. 
  
 Then you have the best of both worlds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can assure you T1 is a different headphone with a tube amp like Elise.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> If however you decide to keep the HEX with another suitable amp but you still like the gorgeous sound from Elise, then it's a simple matter of getting a T1.
> 
> Then you have the best of both worlds.
> 
> ...


 
 wow, here we go again...lol...wallet exercise again...I am so thin and fit...ok..ok...I will buy T1 gen2 as per your request...we will be one happy family


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> wow, here we go again...lol...wallet exercise again...I am so thin and fit...ok..ok...I will buy T1 gen2 as per your request...we will be one happy family


 

 If that's the case, I envy you. HEX with Hugo or Grace m9xx and T1 Gen 2 with Elise. 
  
 Don't you think you'll have too much joy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll be on 2 summits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Then you can come back here and tell us which system you prefer.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> If that's the case, I envy you. HEX with Hugo or Grace m9xx and T1 Gen 2 with Elise.
> 
> Don't you think you'll have too much joy?
> 
> ...


 
 WILL DO!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thank you UT!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> WILL DO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Gimme your address. I want to come and listen to both systems lol.  I think they say that HEX goes well with the mojo too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Went on a Floyd binge...

Animals
Endless River
and now
The Division Bell

EL3N/5998

Sounding great!!


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Gimme your address. I want to come and listen to both systems lol.  I think they say that HEX goes well with the mojo too.


 
 Mojo is very good ,I did listen to it for very short time ,but miles davis did sound very good , the next time I go to Toronto I will take some of my outdated portable players, sorry no phones and fancy ASTELL&KERN players here (to rich for my blood) and will go at it again.
 Did any one try Sony PS1 direct to Elise yet???? BIG SONY FAN...can you tell?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Lets get back to ELISE....can not wait!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Went on a Floyd binge...
> 
> Animals
> Endless River
> ...


 

 Hey I'm listening to 'Endless River' just now. Are you spying on me? However I'm on EL3N / Chatham with T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Very good ...love it.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Lets get back to ELISE....can not wait!


 
 Yay Elise with T1. Details galore, Diva vocals and precision bass. Soundstage as wide as a VMAX screen. Sound travelling 360 degrees around your head and beyond. 
  
 Listening to 'Wish You Were Here' now and this is it !!! 
  
 If you don't like it, collect $100 from @JazzVinyl .


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> If you don't like it, collect $100 from @JazzVinyl




Nice!!!

Only if I win the 1.5 *BILLION DOLLAR* Powerball Lottery 

   :rolleyes:


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Yay Elise with T1. Details galore, Diva vocals and precision bass. Soundstage as wide as a VMAX screen. Sound travelling 360 degrees around your head and beyond.
> 
> Listening to 'Wish You Were Here' now and this is it !!!
> 
> If you don't like it, collect $100 from @JazzVinyl .


 
 There are some words of confidence here....or a bit of monopoly....any bets...going ones.....twice....@jazzVinal...please keep your $100..lol


----------



## Suuup

b-60 said:


> wow, here we go again...lol...wallet exercise again...I am so thin and fit...ok..ok...I will buy T1 gen2 as per your request...we will be one happy family


 
 I've heard the Gen 2 is not as good as the Gen 1 actually. I'd buy the cheaper Gen 1 if I were you.


----------



## UntilThen

I went back to Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998. I had a shock. Someone pass me a scotch please.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's a summary of the differences between FDD20/5998 and EL3N/5998:-
  
 Impressions with Beyer T1 Gen 1.
  

*FDD20**EL3N*Front row seat5th row seatLouder gain of 33Softer gain of 19More agressiveMore relaxMassive soundstageMassive soundstageMore mid centricLinear FRWall of soundNot so in your faceSuperb imagingSuperb imagingEnhanced photoNaturalMore congestedSpread outFull OnMore feelings
  
 On the FDD20, when I first listen to it, I had a WOW moment. The music seems to jump out at me and grab me without letting go. I was immediately won over by the 'enhanced photo' sound. It was certainly a lot louder as I forgot to change the volume, coming from the EL3N.
 I thought for a moment there that this surely sounded better than the EL3N. However by the 6th song, I started to get tired of the forwardness, having being used to the EL3N for 6 days.
  
 Going back to EL3N, music becomes smoother. FR definitely more linear. I hear a lot more, especially at the top and bottom as the mid evens out. This is no longer forward sounding like the FDD20. I realise how much more musical EL3N sounded over FDD20.
  
 Strangely, prior to EL3N arrival, I've always felt that FDD20 has the perfect sound. However EL3N has shown me otherwise.
  
 Also coming from 2 days of Chatham 6AS7G, 5998 seems a lot more energetic. I'm not a 100% sure now that I prefer the EL3N/5998 over the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G. This is with T1. Quite a revelation when you have spend a lot more time with a particular combo.
  
 My moment of truth. Now let's hear your views.
  
  
 ps - I'm sure if I compare EL3N with 6N7G, the difference will be even more pronounced.


----------



## pctazhp

I've been fighting a bug and trying to get some work done. So I haven't had much time for listening.
  
 I need to leave in about an hour to meet a client. Yes. YUK((( I still work )))
  
 But I've had a few minutes this morning to listen to some Judy Collins with EL3N/GE6AS7GA. Mind boggling !!!!
  
 In 1965 I sat on the floor in a private living room at Judy's feet and was treated to a 1 hour concert. Elise just brought her back to my living room!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I've been fighting a bug and trying to get some work done. So I haven't had much time for listening.
> 
> I need to leave in about an hour to meet a client. Yes. YUK((( I still work )))
> 
> ...




Congrats on the "soul transportation" pctazhp...

That's exactly what some others said upon receiving the Elise, they were transported to the place and time where the music was bring made!


----------



## vince741

I just made the payment for the Elise ($599 without any  tubes + $40 for shipping).
 I have no backup plan if the EL3N are not my cup of tea, haha.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Also coming from 2 days of Chatham 6AS7G, 5998 seems a lot more energetic. I'm not a 100% sure now that I prefer the EL3N/5998 over the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G. This is with T1. Quite a revelation when you have spend a lot more time with a particular combo.
> 
> My moment of truth. Now let's hear your views.
> 
> ps - I'm sure if I compare EL3N with 6N7G, the difference will be even more pronounced.




Hello UT...great comparison!!

I got up early to do some comparisons, myself.

First let me say that I still dig the FDD20, and it's more aggressive sound as well as 6N7G and C3gS.

I do also like EL3N as as we both said it sounds "different" from our other tubes. I do find its low gain factor to be a detriment to high impedance cans, 

Since it has a gain factor of 19, the same as the 6BL7, I decided to do a 6BL7/EL3N driver combo. The EL3N beats the 6BL7 handily, the 6BL7 sounding like it was missing frequencies completely, in the mids, compared to EL3N which pronounces mid and upper mid frequencies and gives them room to breathe in their own space/air.

Then tried 7N7/EL3N - much closer in frequency response. EL3N still wins, but by much narrower margin.

Then put in an ECC31 in place of the 7N7 for an ECC31/EL3N driver combo.

I won't say what I heard, but it's worth trying, for all that have both tubes.

Cheers to us, the *LUCKY* ones, with *the endless tube combo possibilities*...





.


----------



## JazzVinyl

vince741 said:


> I just made the payment for the Elise ($599 without any  tubes + $40 for shipping).
> I have no backup plan if the EL3N are not my cup of tea, haha.




You'll be happy, not to worry. If you want an inexpensive "backup" plan, get 7N7's and adapters...

Cheers and Congrats!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Here's a summary of the differences between FDD20/5998 and EL3N/5998:-
> 
> Impressions with Beyer T1 Gen 1.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great work, UT...and I would say *spot on!*...for me too, the EL3N has a better FR balance, which brings out more detail. And I put the presentation somewhere between the ECC31 and the FDD20 - less "in your face" which, as you say, appears not quite so energetic...but much more conducive to longer listening sessions. I suppose one could say the FDD20s are _youthful_ "EE" (Energetic Enthusiasm) and the EL3Ns : _mature _"PP" (Polished Perfection), lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...feel free to differ, folks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....*However*, I must say that with the T1s, I personally am getting all the enthusiastic energy I can handle, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....(and don't count myself "over the hill" _just_ yet!...).
  
 ps.  Perhaps the GEC/Osrams are providing just a _bit _of extra "EE"?!...er no, I _*know*_ they are, LOL......a _lot!! _





...
  
 pps. Sorry, ol' boy...only _*HENNESSY*_ will do - you cheapskate, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


vince741 said:


> I just made the payment for the Elise ($599 without any  tubes + $40 for shipping).
> I have no backup plan if the EL3N are not my cup of tea, haha.


 
  
 Hi vince...no need for a backup plan...unless you're an "EE"++++++++++++, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But JV's advice is good, as a standby - but I'd try the EL3Ns first...
  
 ps..... WELL DONE! on going ahead with the purchase..._merveilleux!_
  
 pps..._IF_ you need lots more EE, then I might just have a spare pair of Lorenz C3gs lurking somewhere...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


>


 
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Let me clarify some things. My house was built in 1962. In 1984 some rooms were added to the back of my house, and one of those rooms is my listening room/office. Then there were a few renovations done downstairs and upstairs over the years.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well mordy, the plot thickens!...I still wouldn't discount _some_ kind of grounding/ground _*'loop'*_ issue - look at what poor LR went through before finally getting lucky! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it would appear this kind of potential problem can sometimes be a real nightmare for all tube amp owners, and _extremely_ difficult to pinpoint. And for some reason, worse via the HP out compared to pre-amp out.
 (Despite individual circuit-breakers, they will all trace back to the common _main_ in, I should have thought?...).
  
 It certainly does look like the higher gained tubes are exacerbating the situation, for which of course we cannot blame the Feliks guys! It just confirms that _*not everyone*_ may get the same results when straying away from stock configuration...which is very sad indeed, lol!...(But this is true for _*all*_ tube amps, of course...sometimes even different tubes from the  same (stock) family can apparently prove problematic!).
  
 And so, m, we really are going to have to hope that the lower-gain EL3N works its magic for you (and @aqsw, of course!). But I will see if Lukasz can shed any more light on this...however, I suspect  he would have to do an in-depth investigation of the unit in question, and given stock performance is acceptable, may well not be able to cover shipping costs, alas...
  
 Let's hope you're in EL3N "Dreamland"/"Heaven" _very_ soon, lol...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 Thanks bro, I am with the dreamsound in a dreamland right now  No need to fiddle with the Elise now, no more tube rolling, this will be the combo that I will return to everytime. Thank you very much for making this discovery, UT and H1 you guys deserve a free Elise MKII. I need to achieve the 40 hours of burn in but I will be boarding a plane in 4 hours LOL Do I let Elise on for an extended burning in when I come visit you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am glad I have notice the same dreamsound like everyone else did, I can say I have the same ears and we are listening to the same sound.
  
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Congratulations on the Dreamsound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Right now listening to Miles Davis, this is my favorite album of his, 2nd time playing today at 24/192.
  
 Same setup but different power tubes, Geek>Elise>EL3N>Chatham 6AS7G
  
 The view from up here is heavenly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  


untilthen said:


> It's so lovely to hear this. I can feel your excitement LR.
> 
> Really happy to hear that the faint hum is gone now too.
> 
> I have this CD and it's an all time favourite of mine. Welcome to the summit. Isn't the view lovely from up here?


 
  
 I have just rolled in the Chatham 6AS7G and I must say that these are equally melodious as 5998 sitting at the top shelf, they are a good competition to the mighty 5998 and truly deserve the second spot on the list of power tubes. The detail is as good as 5998 but a little less analytical and airy, I only listened to the Jazz recording so far and the instruments are not fatiguing, there is ample amount of bass coming out of the bass player, enough for my listening pleasure, I can still hear the awesome reverberation on the recording that I almost never heard before, this gives me the feeling of presence. With 5998 the EL3N shines and the music is puts you into a dream like state, you feel floating on the air. On this Miles Davis Jazz recording, I can hear the faintest, inaudible touches of the instruments, which gives me a great pleasure, feels like I am touch the cords of the bass player. Overall, the Chatham 6AS7G is a perfect match with EL3N, you hear almost everything, and there is no fatigue, extended listeners best pick since too much detail sometimes fatigue some ears haha Ok now I am listening to Bob Marley, and the volume is at the same 9 o'clock and the music is so full, there is a huge soundstage, detail is there, vocals are perfectly centered and Bob's voice is making me high like I am smoking some sniff LOL Bass is precise and hits you in the throat, instrument placement is awesome, I can feel everything distinctly. I would say, this is the best power tube EL3N deserves if you don't want to empty your wallet. Please notice that this is only 2nd or 3rd hours into EL3N and my Chatham's are also quite new. I don't believe in leaving tubes for burn in so for me a very slow burn in process is going on haha
  
 The Chatham were once my top favorite tubes and this is why I collected a huge number of these, I still got 12 but a friend booked a pair so I got 10 now. Chatham 6AS7G takes the 2nd place on the shelf with all honor and dignity.
  
 PS my flight is in some hours, I am bringing my Visseaux and Mazda 6N7G tubes and the EL3N adapters to test them as powers LOL
  
 For those having issues with distortion on Mazda and Visseaux, I faced the same problem, one of each Mazda and Visseaux tubes have distortion so I am using the other good tubes from Mazda and Visseaux pairs, they have no distortion at all and sound good. When used as a pair, they kind of have less centered image, I could never tell this because my Suzier adapters were faulty and had hum. I just got the golden adapters from Mrs-X and I could tell all my ECC31 tubes are fine, Fiver 6N7GT are fine and one of each Mazda and Visseaux are fine. I know these two tubes have same internals so I will keep them as a pair and return the other two.
  
 I will test this issue in UT's Elise, if they (Mazda and Visseaux) had distortion that means Elise is fine and the tubes are faulty.
  


untilthen said:


> @Lord Raven  did you try EL3N with Chatham 6AS7G? on your HD600.
> 
> I see you love the EL3N and 5998 combo. Just wondering if you try EL3N with the other power tubes?


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi H1,
  
 Thank you so much, for making this discovery and for all the earlier discoveries.
  
 I am in a dreamland with my perfect dream sound, I feel like that I am at a loss for words while describing the nature of these tubes but this is true what everyone is saying about EL3N sound. EL3N are definitely the top tier society tubes, they are exotic and should be framed on the wall for future generations. I am glad that I am felt the same vibes as other lucky ones. 
  
 Right now, 3rd listening session is ongoing with Miles Davis and I might miss my flight to the Oz haha
  
   Cheers


hypnos1 said:


> Whoa!, LR...dream-like already?...yet another "Lucky One" who's gonna be lost somewhere up *beyond* the clouds in 40+hrs' burn-in time, methinks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> PS my flight is in some hours, I am bringing my Visseaux and Mazda 6N7G tubes and the EL3N adapters to test them as powers LOL


 
 LR:  Wish you great trip. I envy both you and UT. Drink a toast to Elise for me with UT's favorite Australian beer.


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Cheers


 
  
 Yeah, those Chathams _*really*_ sing with the EL3Ns, don't they lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but what power tube _*doesn't*_, I wonder?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And yes, I may have made this wonderful tube work, but UT _found_ it, of course...curiosity didn't kill _this _cat, thank goodness! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(mind you, *I* just might, if he tries to palm me off with cheap Australian brandy, LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...  
  
 CHEERS....and don't miss that flight, for Heaven's sake!!


----------



## UntilThen

Good morning everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I woke up to read feedbacks to reassure me that my ears are hearing correctly. That's good. The heatwave here has not make me crazy. Remote areas of Australia hit 44 degrees celsius yesterday. Today it will be 41 but closer to suburban areas. Elise is going into the pool with me. 
  
 I want to emphasise that 6N7G, FDD20, C3G and ECC31 are not suddenly garbage sounding. On the contrary, they still sounded very exciting still. However EL3N brings a presentation so soothing and smooth and with so much more delicacies that you will be won over for good. Unless you have different tendencies and tone preference. With T1, as you said @hypnos1 , there is just the right sparkle here to do magic. Any revealing headphones will do this too. What you have is a smooth operator. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have long love the 7N7. Just before I say goodbye to tube rolling on the Darkvoice 336se, the combo I love the most on that tube amp, is Raytheon 7N7 with Tung Sol 5998. When Elise came, I found the 7N7 sounded very nice too with a selection of my quad pairs of power tubes.
  
 Then followed an assault of the centurion tubes...C3G, 6N7G, 6A6, ECC31, FDD20...and I was soon won over by these flying horses. 7N7 has been sitting in my drawer but I will take it out soon for a comparison with EL3N. JV, your comparison has piqued my curiosity. Likewise I'll do a careful comparison between ECC31 and EL3N.
  
 I pop in my Chatham 6AS7G again this morning, having spend last night with EL3N / 5998. I immediately prefer this presentation. With T1 and the rest of my gear, I find this very pleasing. I know I will love the extra sparkle from 5998 when the occasion calls for...like when I hear from JV that he has won the 1.5 billion US lottery. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So LR, you probably will be at the airport by now. I'm glad you tried the Chatham 6AS7G and found it easily the 2nd best sounding power tube. As I said before, I won't put a ranking on those 4 power tubes. You have different presentation from all 4, paired with EL3N and the various drivers. We need varieties here and that is the appeal of a tube amp. You have quite infinite ways to dial in the right tone for yourself as the occasion and mood calls for.
  
 Finally (as per my usual long essay) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I will have to repeat what everyone is saying. @vince741 you did not tell us your musical preference or what gear you have but I doubt very much, you won't be won over by the sound you get from Elise and these tubes.
  
 Cheers to us.... the LUCKY ONES .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ps it has nothing to do with luck. YOU made the choice to buy Elise. I'm glad you did and I am glad I did too.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I do also like EL3N as as we both said it sounds "different" from our other tubes. *I do find its low gain factor to be a detriment to high impedance cans*,


 
 We know that EL3N has a lower gain but with the more efficient T1 (600ohms 102db - DT990 is 600ohms 96db), there's nothing detrimental here. I'm listening with EL3N / Chatham 6AS7G and my volume is only just pass 9 o'clock. 10am and it's much louder. 11am is LOUD. 12noon is hello danger zone...no I wouldn't even go to 12noon. 
  
 Your volume setting will be different.
  
 ps.. with HE560 it's a different story. I've to increase volume to 10.5am to get similar gain with T1's 9am. EL3N is still driving it effortlessly.
  
 However your mileage may vary.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I will test this issue in UT's Elise, if they (Mazda and Visseaux) had distortion that means Elise is fine and the tubes are faulty.




Safe travels and have fun at UT's place


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Safe travels and have fun at UT's place


 

 I hope he doesn't bring more desert heat !!!  It's killing hot already.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I hope he doesn't bring more desert heat !!!  It's killing hot already.




It's super COLD here today


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> It's super COLD here today


 
 -20 C. -36 with the wind chill in Winnipeg


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> -20 C. -36 with the wind chill in Winnipeg




OUY! That's COLD, were not THAT COLD!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> It's super COLD here today


 

 I'll trade my heat for your cold. With cold, I can wrap myself up. With heat, even getting down to bare essentials, it's still hot. Imagine listening through a tube amp in this weather. It's free hot sauna. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 
  
 I need to listen to some COOL songs. What songs are cool?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> -20 C. -36 with the wind chill in Winnipeg


 

 O M G   are you not frozen yet aqsw?
  
 If it gets down to zero here, I'll be screaming...wait I'll be too frozen to scream.


----------



## B-60

Here is my new friend
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is by far the best portable player/recorder (maybe no so much portable) What's comes out of this unit is beyond STUPID
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




WOW!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Here is my new friend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are Minidisc still fashionable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't think anyone is still using minidisc lol but if you say it sounds wonderful I believe you. 
  
 BUT JV will tell you that's nothing compared to vinyl HAHAHA.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Are Minidisc still fashionable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This thing have so much power under hood and so much grip on the bottom notes , just so musical.It is very hard to come out with proper words.
 Me and JV have a lot to talk about at the later date, I have to set up my TT and vacation is coming...


----------



## UntilThen

Maybe this is better?  Sony NWZ 100


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  THANKS for Judy Collins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 
  
 Aww this is wonderful too


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Maybe this is better?  Sony NWZ 100




I'll be getting that in Feb or March latest so I'll be sure to post impressions of that Walkman paired with the Elise and T1.2


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be getting that in Feb or March latest so I'll be sure to post impressions of that Walkman paired with the Elise and T1.2


 

 I want your address NOW. I want to listen too.


----------



## B-60

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be getting that in Feb or March latest so I'll be sure to post impressions of that Walkman paired with the Elise and T1.2


 
 NICE, is this for UK market only?


----------



## Oskari

Got the beautiful EL3Ns today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.S. It was -28 here last week. Now it's just -13. Both _without_ wind chill.


----------



## vince741

untilthen said:


> Finally (as per my usual long essay)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can see all my gear on my profile but to give you a tl;dr : Audio GD Ref5 -> Auralic Taurus / Cavalli Liquid Carbon -> HD800.
 I can listen to pretty much everything as long as it's not auto-tuned to death. I can listen to some Greatful Dead, go for some miles Davis, then hit some Clapton, Norah Jones, Bob Marley, ZZ Top, Diana Krall, Joe Bonamassa, BB King, Jamiroquai and so on.
 My favorite band is definitely Pink Floyd (and I can't make up my mind between Meddle and Animals).


----------



## JazzVinyl

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be getting that in Feb or March latest so I'll be sure to post impressions of that Walkman paired with the Elise and T1.2




I have the NWZ-17 (196 GB) and I can assure you, it's a fine sounding DAP, has a really nice EQ section, with lots of options.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Got the beautiful EL3Ns today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice to both EL3N and cold. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What about the adapters?
  


vince741 said:


> You can see all my gear on my profile but to give you a tl;dr : Audio GD Ref5 -> Auralic Taurus / Cavalli Liquid Carbon -> HD800.
> I can listen to pretty much everything as long as it's not auto-tuned to death. I can listen to some Greatful Dead, go for some miles Davis, then hit some Clapton, Norah Jones, Bob Marley, ZZ Top, Diana Krall, Joe Bonamassa, BB King, Jamiroquai and so on.
> My favorite band is definitely Pink Floyd (and I can't make up my mind between Meddle and Animals).


 
 Congrats ! That's some serious gear. Really nice Auralic and HD800. Everything there in that chain should give you laser precision accuracy. Good taste but I think you came to the right place. You're missing the euphonic, organic tube amp sound and Elise will deliver that very nicely and economically. Plus of course the EL3N which a reviewer reckons is close to 2A3 sound.
  
 Good taste regarding music too. You'll find no shortage of Pink Floyd fans here too. Jamiroquai ... I found that out only from my son. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ummm you've the LCD2.2 pre Fazor and T1 too. Very nice. 2 HD800? You must love HD800.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Got the beautiful EL3Ns today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Never mind, O...once you get those adapters and pop in those beauties, you'll be _*HOTTER THAN HOT, lol!!!*_











...can't wait for your impressions...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  I have on ECC31 and Chatham 6AS7G listening through T1.
  
 I think I've come a full circle. This certainly sounded similar to EL3N but *not quite*. Now this is interesting. It's open my ears to the ECC31 now. With a gain of 32, it does sound louder than EL3N for sure. It's also more balance, unlike the more forward 6N7Gs. With a bright sounding headphone, this will come in handy.
  
 Volume matched with EL3N, I still feel EL3N has more resolving qualities. More holographic. More details, especially at the top end. More linear across the FR for sure. Better quality bass.
  
 The ECC31 is no slouch and deserve all the hype given it. If price is brought in to the equation, there's no doubt which I'll choose. Wait even if they are of the same price, I'll take the EL3N any day and any night.


----------



## vince741

untilthen said:


> Congrats ! That's some serious gear. Really nice Auralic and HD800. Everything there in that chain should give you laser precision accuracy. Good taste but I think you came to the right place. You're missing the euphonic, organic tube amp sound and Elise will deliver that very nicely and economically. Plus of course the EL3N which a reviewer reckons is close to 2A3 sound.
> 
> Good taste regarding music too. You'll find no shortage of Pink Floyd fans here too. Jamiroquai ... I found that out only from my son.
> 
> ...


 
 I had crazy bargain for almost all my audio gear, this is why I have a nice gear. Otherwise, I would have never been able to have a 1/3 of what I own.
 Yeah, that was the idea, to have both of the SS world and the tube world .
  
 I don't have two HD800, I have one HD800 and one HD600. The HD600 made me fell into this crazy hobby and have a very special place for me.
 I just obtained the T1 yesterday for a price I couldn't refuse (375€ second handed), but I'm not really impressed at the moment. I'll see if they will grow on me.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Nice to both EL3N and cold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


hypnos1 said:


> Never mind, O...once you get those adapters and pop in those beauties, you'll be _*HOTTER THAN HOT, lol!!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I could use some of that…
  
 The adapters are in faraway lands, probably haven't reached the slow boat yet. I hope they'll take a flight.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> I had crazy bargain for almost all my audio gear, this is why I have a nice gear. Otherwise, I would have never been able to have a 1/3 of what I own.
> Yeah, that was the idea, to have both of the SS world and the tube world .
> 
> I don't have two HD800, I have one HD800 and one HD600. The HD600 made me fell into this crazy hobby and have a very special place for me.
> I just obtained the T1 yesterday for a price I couldn't refuse (375€ second handed), but I'm not really impressed at the moment. I'll see if they will grow on me.


 

 Alright I see where your preference is with HD600 and HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'll be keen to know (when you have a really good listen to the T1) your impressions of the HD800 vs T1. I'm surprise with the music you listen to, the T1 hasn't yet appeal to you but fair enough, you only had it yesterday. You'll need time to form a solid opinion.
  
 Why the LCD2.2 then?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl
> I have on ECC31 and Chatham 6AS7G listening through T1.
> 
> I think I've come a full circle. This certainly sounded similar to EL3N but *not quite*. Now this is interesting. It's open my ears to the ECC31 now. With a gain of 32, it does sound louder than EL3N for sure. It's also more balance, unlike the more forward 6N7Gs. With a bright sounding headphone, this will come in handy.
> ...




My 600 ohm cans really NEED the additional Gain that the ECC31's provide. They do sound a little different than EL3N, but not in a bad way.

For me to use the EL3N's with 600 ohm cans, I will have to preamp the signal from the DAP before feeding it to Elise.

Have not done so yet, but without doing that, the Elise volume knob is way up there at 3:00 and almost 4:00 am...use the Sennheiser 580's and it comes back to 1pm or so.

Biggest detraction for EL3N is the *_very_ low gain factor*.

I think the EL3N and ECC31 sound more alike, than unlike to each other. They are quite similar.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> My 600 ohm cans really NEED the additional Gain that the ECC31's provide. They do sound a little different than EL3N, but not in a bad way.
> 
> For me to use the EL3N's with 600 ohm cans, I will have to preamp the signal from the DAP before feeding it to Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 I see your point. DT990 600ohms at 96db is less efficient than the T1 600ohms at 102db. With your non DAP preamp volume push, at 3 to 4pm is certainly not a good position to be in. 
  
 As you said, try running the Sony DAP into Elise...things will be different then. 
  
 Yes agree EL3N and ECC31 has a lot of similarities ... I'm still on those tubes now. I needed a longer listen. Probably spend a better part of today doing that.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I see your point. DT990 at 96db is less efficient than the T1. With your non DAP preamp volume push, at 3 to 4pm is certainly not a good position to be in.
> 
> As you said, try running the Sony DAP into Elise...things will be different then.
> 
> Yes agree EL3N and ECC31 has a lot of similarities ... I'm still on those tubes now. I needed a longer listen. Probably spend a better part of today doing that.




That is running the Sony DAP (at full volume, not 'line out' volume) into Elise.

Will have to preamp the line out level signal, then feed to Elise if I want to use EL3N as drivers. Will try that in a couple of hours 

Both EL3N and ECC31 are "pro sounding" tubes. EL3N is a better buy (less known?).

But the low gain of EL3N still makes them hot contenders for use the Power slots, with your best 6N7G's in the drivers' slots, I think 

Also..everyone using a DAC with volume control at 100%, is essentially doing just that...feeding a 'boosted signal', to miss Elise 

Cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> My 600 ohm cans really NEED the additional Gain that the ECC31's provide. They do sound a little different than EL3N, but not in a bad way.
> 
> For me to use the EL3N's with 600 ohm cans, I will have to preamp the signal from the DAP before feeding it to Elise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...that is SO weird... with both my T1s and HD650s, 11o'clock is REALLY loud - can't understand your settings, lol!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV...that is SO weird... with both my T1s and HD650s, 11o'clock is REALLY loud - can't understand your settings, lol!!!




What is the gain factor in your GEC/Osram powers?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> But the low gain of EL3N still makes them hot contenders for use the Power slots, with your best 6N7G's in the drivers' slots, I think


 
 Ok I've tried C3G as drivers and EL3N as powers. This provides me with a lower gain (loudness) than if I switch them around. The difference is about 1.5 to 2 volume notches. So using EL3N as power tubes provides me with a lesser volume.
  
 I've also tried ECC31 as drivers and EL3N as powers. Similar experience. 
  
 I need to explore EL3N as power more. Especially quad EL3N when 2 more adapters shows up. TOO MANY THINGS TO DO !!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV...that is SO weird... with both my T1s and HD650s, 11o'clock is REALLY loud - can't understand your settings, lol!!!


 

 YES mine is same as yours @hypnos1 .
  
 With T1 and HD650, using EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G 11 o'clock is loud. With 5998 it's even louder.
  
 Only with HE560 do I need to dial to 12noon.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I was using the PE 6AS7GA which is said to be a "low mu gain" tube...maybe that is part of the problem.

:rolleyes:


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> YES mine is same as yours @hypnos1 .
> 
> With T1 and HD650, using EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G 11 o'clock is loud. With 5998 it's even louder.
> 
> Only with HE560 do I need to dial to 12noon.




Two differences in the setups:

1> Not using a stand alone DAC

2> My cans are higher impedance (resistance to input current)


----------



## hypnos1

Hi again JV... can't remember off hand - will check tomorrow... time for bed now! But I think I remember the Chathams giving similar results...
 BFN...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again JV... can't remember off hand - will check tomorrow... time for bed now! But I think I remember the Chathams giving similar results...
> BFN...




Good night, H1...!!


----------



## UntilThen

Why is LR still here? Did you miss the plane?


----------



## UntilThen

Rocking to this now. I love 80s music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Blame it on @pctazhp and @Oskari


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Rocking to this now. I love 80s music. :etysmile:   Blame it on @pctazhp
> and @Oskari




Really bad!

Much better:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EPOIS5taqA8[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

Yes Kim Carnes much better lol. 
  
*Raytheon 7N7 with Chatham 6AS7G*
  
 Sweet sounding. Highly recommended. Grab yourself a pair of cheap 7N7 and adapters. These are mostly manufactured by Sylvania. 
 http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/tube-of-month-7n7.html


----------



## JazzVinyl

Alright that worked dandy to cure the low gain problem with EL3N and will make Mordy's 6BL7's work better, too. 

Sony NWZ-A17 hi-res DAP via line out cord, goes in to the Bravo Audio Ocean, which is a Hybrid tube amp, one 12AX7 tube (used as a buffer) plus FET transistors. The output from the Bravo feeds Elise. using the Bravo as preamp to Elise works great.

Now have the volume with my 600 ohm DT-990's at 11:00 for normal (LOUD) listening level.

Have EL3N as drivers and 5998 as powers...it's definitely sounding great...as all the Stand Alone DAC owners are saying. 

You Stand Alone DAC guys are feeding Elise with a "hot signal" much louder than normal line lever input...I am quite convinced. 

All is well when the Beyers' are happy. 



.


----------



## UntilThen

An afternoon session with Fivre 6N7G brown base. These sound really lovely. My thanks to @Suuup always.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes Kim Carnes much better lol.
> 
> *Raytheon 7N7 with Chatham 6AS7G*
> 
> ...




Agree the 7N7 sounds great in this amp and are quite the bargain. If I had to do over again, I would start with 7N7 and some of those bargain Mullard 6080 that folks were finding...

cheers...you LUCKY fools!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JcYoNFiVgg [/VIDEO]


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Rocking to this now. I love 80s music.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 My true love is the music I grew up with - the 50s and 60s. The Diamonds defined my taste in music for a life time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCrpUsLd5kE
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L8Xe6ivrm4
  
 Beat, Melody and Heart


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> My true love is the music I grew up with - the 50s and 60s. The Diamonds defined my taste in music for a life time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCrpUsLd5kE
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L8Xe6ivrm4
> 
> Beat, Melody and Heart


 

 That's way before my time lol.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> That's way before my time lol.


 
 Ha))) Rubbing it in


----------



## UntilThen

This is what I remembered as a kid...1966


----------



## UntilThen

Or how about this 1969


----------



## JazzVinyl

Pctazhp's Diamonds is before my time too...and I am ancient!

Monkees - can do 

One of my really early musical memories was the BIG HIT the Everly Brothers had with "Wake up, Little Suzie". 

And a little later, Ray Charles hit it BIG with "I Can't Stop Loving You". 

And of course all the hits Simon and Garfunkel had....

Good old AM radio days....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Or how about this 1969 :bigsmile_face:




Yep, remember it very well


----------



## pctazhp

The Monkees Daydream Believer is one of my all time favorites ))


----------



## JazzVinyl

Last Train to Clarksville, too


----------



## JazzVinyl

We loved Sly and the Family Stone, too...


----------



## pctazhp

One of the great things about the Elise is it has motivated me to go way back in time and listen to music I haven't even thought of in years. Wow - Creedence Clearwater Revival - Have You Ever Seen The Rain.  Brings back memories of my year-long vacation in DaNang, South Vietnam !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Indeed...Elise erases the time and transports your soul to a place you want to be...

She makes incredible fun of this, something I had listened to for years, Elise makes it new again:


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qMyGAs-ZNYc [/VIDEO]



.


----------



## pctazhp

I finally figured out how to post videos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm headed to bed with a head full of music and memories - thanks to Elise. For me, this is pure goose bumps:


----------



## UntilThen

This has now become my all time favourite. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  

  
 .... until a pair of GEC 6AS7G drops from the sky.


----------



## mordy

Speaking about early memories of hits:
  
 Lonnie Donegan: Putting on the Style
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9KUeMaJRQ
  
 Bill Haley and the Comets: 12 o'clock Rock
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yjufiij80A
  
 These were popular in Sweden around 1960.....
  
 Sounds really ancient, something from a different era and a different world.....


----------



## i20bot

untilthen said:


> Rocking to this now. I love 80s music.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Love the 80s and Laura Branigan also.  You guys are making me want to get a Elise now.  But empty wallet so I have to have some Self Control.


----------



## UntilThen

i20bot said:


> Love the 80s and Laura Branigan also.  You guys are making me want to get a Elise now.  But empty wallet so I have to have some Self Control.


 
 Yay Self Control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's none here.... no there is. I need no upgrade anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Listening to the song now with HE560. Man, I LOVE THIS HEADPHONE. I can't decide which I love more (against T1) and Elise makes them sound incredibly good. T1 wins on comfort and that is important for me.
  
 Phew HD650 sounds good too. What's going on.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> This has now become my all time favourite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Does it beat 5998 as powers?


untilthen said:


> Yay Self Control
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 We don't need no self-control. This is true end-game stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Does it beat 5998 as powers?


 
 It's a different presentation. Chatham 6AS7G is clear, airy and refreshing with a nice bass whereas 5998 is on steroids. You need to hear it to know what I mean.
  
 More importantly, EL3N is now the driving force. Pretty full on.
  
 What are your EL3N and adapters coming?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's a different presentation. Chatham 6AS7G is clear, airy and refreshing with a nice bass whereas 5998 is on steroids. You need to hear it to know what I mean.
> 
> More importantly, EL3N is now the driving force. Pretty full on.
> 
> What are your EL3N and adapters coming?


 
 They're coming. Expected delivery is January 15 - February 05. If I'm lucky, I'll get them tomorrow, although I don't think it's realistic. Hope I don't have to wait until Feb 05.
  
 I've realized I don't have as many tubes to run, as I thought.
 I have 4x ECC31, 4x 6N7G, 2x C3g, 2x FDD20, 2x CV2535, 2x 6C8G, and of course the stock 6SN7. 
  
 So really, I can only run 3 different kinds of tube, the ECC31, 6N7G and C3g. I have only 1 adapter for the FDD20, I've yet to make the adapters for the CV2535, since I'm lacking a proper power supply, and the 6C8G is too microphonic. There's a difference between my Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G, but they're not THAT different. They're more of the same, but the Fivre seems more refined (bad description, but you get what I mean). 
  
 As powers I have 2x 5998 and 2x Mullard 6080. 
  
 So really, I only have have 3 sets of (suitable) drivers, and 2 sets of powers. Not that many combinations. I like the sound I'm getting though, so I'm content with what I have.
  
 At this point, I _crave _the EL3N though. In my mind, I tell myself "No way they're that good. It's all pure hype. Yea, the hype was true about the Elise, she really is that good, but THIS time, they must be wrong! How can it beat what I already have? I have 10/10? They're very pretty though, those EL3N. I wonder.. No, stay focused! Do not look at those pretty EL3N! Ignore them until the adapters arrive! But.."
  
 It's a battle at this point. 
  
  
  
 About the hum question a couple of days ago. I have hum with my Fivre 6N7G, but it's weird. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. And it's not always the same. I'm not sure about those. My ECC31 doesn't hum though. Stock tubes have no problem, except one of my stock powers is broken. It has a weird clicking noise, which is why JV sent me a 6080 back when I first got my Elise (Thank you again, @JazzVinyl !). No hum with C3g. 5998 and 6080 are also hum-free. 
  
  
 I've been pretty busy the past week, which is also why I didn't get around to checking my tubes for hum until now. I've been following the thread though! Not much time with Elise, sadly, but I will make up for it in the next couple of days, as I get to work from home.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> They're coming. Expected delivery is January 15 - February 05. If I'm lucky, I'll get them tomorrow, although I don't think it's realistic. Hope I don't have to wait until Feb 05.
> 
> I've realized I don't have as many tubes to run, as I thought.
> I have 4x ECC31, 4x 6N7G, 2x C3g, 2x FDD20, 2x CV2535, 2x 6C8G, and of course the stock 6SN7.
> ...


 

 Well first of all thank you for writing me a detail post. I did noticed you weren't posting much last couple of days but gather you must have been busy. That's understandable. Real life comes first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That's good news regarding the EL3N and adapters. You have to trust UT's ears. Do I have to show you Legolas's picture again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However I understand the skepticism. I too was in your situation prior to getting the EL3N and adapters. I was completely sold on FDD20. You do need about ~40hours on those red rubies before they play to their full potentials but on 1st listen, you're likely to be like @CITIZENLIN . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What do you mean you don't have that many tubes to roll. You have all the essential tubes. I'd recommend a pair of GE 6AS7GA to compliment your power tubes. You've most of the good tubes. That is all you need.
  
 Regarding the hum on Fivre 6N7G, I think it's an erratic tube because your ECC31 and Visseaux 6N7G are without hum on those same adapters. Some tubes can misbehave. Remember we're dealing with decades old tubes. Your setup looks fine to me. Most of your tubes and adapters are working without hum or distortion.
  
 Look forward to your impressions on EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Alright that worked dandy to cure the low gain problem with EL3N and will make Mordy's 6BL7's work better, too.
> 
> Sony NWZ-A17 hi-res DAP via line out cord, goes in to the Bravo Audio Ocean, which is a Hybrid tube amp, one 12AX7 tube (used as a buffer) plus FET transistors. The output from the Bravo feeds Elise. using the Bravo as preamp to Elise works great.
> 
> ...


 

 How did I miss this post LOL. I think @Lorspeaker highly recommend this preamp method. Says it stretches the soundstage wider than a football field. I did try this some time ago, except I use Elise as preamp and Darkvoice 336se as the main amp. Was fun for a day but I got rid of it. Prefer using Elise as stand alone amp and that gives me plenty of power anyway.
  
 Whatever works. EL3N and 5998 or the other power tubes needs to realise their full potentials. I still feel that these red tubes are improving on a daily basis. I'm far from a 100 hours but will get there.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Deeeeeper


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> Deeeeeper


 

 Lukasz is waiting for you to place your order. Just sell off some of your TOTL headphones and do it. Keep the T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sell off the monk too.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Too traumatized with tube amps...since the hosiptalisation of both mytubeamps.
Stickg to useNdump cheap contraptions from now on...
Like the monk off a hdfone...
Or a yammie off an ipad. LoL

Ok...i still hv an audiogd dacamp to work out its lastbreath


----------



## UntilThen

I'll trade my Darkvoice 336se for your AKG K812 plus a pair of tubes...make it 2 pairs.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Speaking about early memories of hits:
> 
> Lonnie Donegan: Putting on the Style
> 
> ...


 

 Great memories for me, mordy)) I have always considered Rock Around the Clock as the first true Rock and Roll song. It was in the 1955 movie Blackboard Jungle with Glenn Ford about a teacher in a ghetto school.
  

  
 And I grew up with Dick Clark and American Bandstand. It is impossible for me to think of anything in today's pop culture that is even close to being as big and dominant as American Bandstand was (at least here in America). This was decades before the internet, but every weekday afternoon America's teens gathered around their black and white TVs to hear Dick Clark - a former radio DJ - introduce the latest hits from his TV dance studio in Philadelphia.
  
 For me, it all seems like it was just yesterday. But you are right. It is very ancient - a much different era from a world that is gone forever - for better or worse.
  
 PS. Getting old really sucks, but I'm sure glad I have lived long enough to own #34 )))


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> How did I miss this post LOL. I think @Lorspeaker
> highly recommend this preamp method. Says it stretches the soundstage wider than a football field. I did try this some time ago, except I use Elise as preamp and Darkvoice 336se as the main amp. Was fun for a day but I got rid of it. Prefer using Elise as stand alone amp and that gives me plenty of power anyway.
> 
> Whatever works. EL3N and 5998 or the other power tubes needs to realise their full potentials. I still feel that these red tubes are improving on a daily basis. I'm far from a 100 hours but will get there.




My situation is not a matter of Tube amp to tube amp, just a matter of an amplified signal before reaching the Elise due to low gain in EL3N tubes. Could just as well have been amplified before Elise via SS (which is what all stand alone DAC users are doing).

Just so happened the only thing I had avail to pre-amplify was the Bravo Ocean,

Cheerios


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> What is the gain factor in your GEC/Osram powers?


 
 Hi again JV...doesn't look like amplification is any different to normal 6AS7Gs - as confirmed by similar output from the Chathams, lol....
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Alright that worked dandy to cure the low gain problem with EL3N and will make Mordy's 6BL7's work better, too.
> 
> Sony NWZ-A17 hi-res DAP via line out cord, goes in to the Bravo Audio Ocean, which is a Hybrid tube amp, one 12AX7 tube (used as a buffer) plus FET transistors. The output from the Bravo feeds Elise. using the Bravo as preamp to Elise works great.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again...my line input is from my Audiolab 8200 CD Player, and I get the same result with the line out direct from my Oppo BDP103 (BluRay/SACD/DVDA/CD/media player). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
  


untilthen said:


> This has now become my all time favourite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Like these you mean, UT?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....................
  

  
 Still think you've finished spending, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> At this point, I _crave _the EL3N though. In my mind, I tell myself "No way they're that good. It's all pure hype. Yea, the hype was true about the Elise, she really is that good, *but THIS time, they must be wrong! How can it beat what I already have? I have 10/10?* They're very pretty though, those EL3N. I wonder.. No, stay focused! Do not look at those pretty EL3N! Ignore them until the adapters arrive! But.."
> 
> It's a battle at this point.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi S, my (soon-to-be poor) friend...your forfeit will now be a whole _*bottle*_ of Hennessy, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...plus the cruel pain of keep looking at those beauties in vain - for a while yet, at least...so _*keep looking!!*_








...(never thought I could be _that_ cruel!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but fear not, your suffering will soon (hopefully!) be over, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Thanks for your feedback re.hum - looks like _most_ of us are fortunate in being able to stray from the 'straight and narrow'!!....let's hope _*everyone*_ can join us in nirvana land, with the help of the EL3N...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps. That's Hennessy *XO, *by the way!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> For me, it all seems like it was just yesterday. But you are right. It is very ancient - a much different era from a world that is gone forever - for better or worse.
> 
> PS. Getting old really sucks, but I'm sure glad I have lived long enough to own #34 )))


 
 Awwww 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The past is sweet. There will always be time for reflections but we must enjoy the present. My 'present' with #22 is incredibly sweet. Stick around with us and you'll feel young forever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I'm young in my head only.
  
 Perhaps one day...will be lovely to meet up with you


----------



## mordy

9:52 AM. My iPhone buzzes: USPS text message - tracking #xxxx has been delivered In/At Mailbox
  
 I run outside - there it is: My EL3N adapters have arrived!
  
 With fumbling fingers I unwrap the Philips tubes and try to push them into the huge sockets. It doesn't go, creaking noises, breaking into a cold sweat...
  
 OK, didn't pctazhp say that they were hard to put in? I'll try again - oh yes, a couple if pins are spaced more apart than others. More crunching, sweating, and then - click! It's in - never going to remove it - don't have the nerves for this!
  
 Second tube - Read the above again. Crunch crunch, and then CLICK! Sweating - hope I didn't damage anything. Taking a deep breath and pushing the two tubes into the driver sockets.
  




  
  
 Power on my just upgraded Elise - did you notice the little white dot on the volume control? Just applied a little white-out yesterday - the amp was delivered without any paint on the indentation on the volume control.
  
 HUM TEST: Without music, a faint hum appears at 12 o'clock with headphones. Does not increase much with turning up the volume. More than enough volume with headphones at 11 o'clock, so no problem with hum listening to headphones!
 Using the Elise as preamp no hum until 85% volume - way too loud for listening, so for my purposes my situation is HUMPHREY!
  
 No adapters, no hum - YIPPEE!
  
 After 45 minutes of music these tubes already sound better than anything I tried before.
  
 Going to roll power tubes when I feel like it: C3g, Chatham 6AS7G, Mazda 6N7G, 6BL7, 6AS7GA etc etc.
  
 In case I get extra EL3N tubes, is there any special trick to take them out of the adapters?
  
 Man, all the hype is true! These tubes really sound great right out of the box.
  
 End game? Probably.....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Like these you mean, UT?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That picture does look nice and I believe sound nice too.
  
 H1, I'm going to put a GEC sticker on my Chatham and all will be fine. Welcome to the powers of imagination for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Would you describe to me the difference in sound between Chatham 6AS7G and GEC 6AS7G please. How unalike and alike do they sound.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> In case I get extra EL3N tubes, is there any special trick to take them out of the adapters?
> 
> Man, all the hype is true! These tubes really sound great right out of the box.
> 
> End game? Probably.....


 
 Mordy !!! That is the greatest news I've heard in a long long time time. I'm so happy for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't worry about the tight adapters. The tubes should come off easily. These springs are usually very tight when new but it holds the tubes well. The springs are bend outwards in the middle. When you push it in, that should go in slightly. Same way when you remove it. The spring will relax it's tightness gradually. When it gets too loose just use a small flat screw driver at the base and do a fulcrum lift action gently to pop the middle bit out again.
  
 I can't believe you can finally listen properly with headphones now with the best sound. Thanks for verifying our claims, Makes me feel sane after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Enjoy !!! ...and yes rotate the power tubes for different pleasing results.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> 9:52 AM. My iPhone buzzes: USPS text message - tracking #xxxx has been delivered In/At Mailbox
> 
> I run outside - there it is: My EL3N adapters have arrived!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey mordy...*GREAT NEWS!!*...you have really made my day, lol - and a good few others', no doubt! I am *so *glad you can now take Elise - _and_ yourself! - to the dizzy heights/_summits_ enjoyed by all those who finally manage to get those 'beautiful' things in where they belong! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....*CHEERS!....*




  
 And so yet _*another*_ forfeit...or did you never doubt me at all, m?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps.  And - once more(!)...*just you wait!!*





...


untilthen said:


> That picture does look nice and I believe sound nice too.
> 
> H1, I'm going to put a GEC sticker on my Chatham and all will be fine. Welcome to the powers of imagination for now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...with the EL3N especially (and in the Elise), they are indeed _very  _similar. I will have to do a much more in-depth comparison soon to remind me properly, but basically the soundstage is even _wider_ and more holographic (which seems almost impossible, lol!); there's even _more_ overall detail; bass has even greater extension, impact and tremendous control, and everything just hits you with a feeling of total cohesion, balance and _precision_...in other words, just '_right'. _Plus, an extra 'something' that defies description...I just call it 'Fairy Dust' LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







    
  
 ps  They both share that wonderful 'air', clarity, 'clean'/detailed sound that you and I have come to love...along with a good few others, I suspect!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...with the EL3N especially (and in the Elise), they are indeed _very  _similar. I will have to do a much more in-depth comparison soon to remind me properly, but basically the soundstage is even _wider_ and more holographic (which seems almost impossible, lol!); there's even _more_ overall detail; bass has even greater extension, impact and tremendous control, and everything just hits you with a feeling of total cohesion, balance and _precision_...in other words, just '_right'. _Plus, an extra 'something' that defies description...I just call it 'Fairy Dust' LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very interesting. That's what the seller who sold me the Chatham 6AS7G said and he has a pair of GEC 6AS7G.
  
 That in bold is what I hear in the Chatham. A spring day, breezy and the smell of fresh air.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen and @hypnos1.  I'm curious as to how the Chatham 6AS7G and/or GEC 6AS7G compare to TS 5998. I got a pair of 5998s and have had them in the Elise briefly. Maybe mine is an inferior pair but they are pretty microphonic (not really a problem for me). However, from my brief comparison I don't like them nearly as much with the EL3Ns and my HD700s as I do the pair of 7236s I bought from UT.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen and @hypnos1.  I'm curious as to how the Chatham 6AS7G and/or GEC 6AS7G compare to TS 5998. I got a pair of 5998s and have had them in the Elise briefly. Maybe mine is an inferior pair but they are pretty microphonic (not really a problem for me). However, from my brief comparison I don't like them nearly as much with the EL3Ns and my HD700s as I do the pair of 7236s I bought from UT.


 

 It's really up to personal preference, as well as matching with driver and headphone. I guess I will never get to try the 7236 with EL3N. Whilst I regretted selling it but I'm glad it makes you happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 5998 has a more energetic sound. 7236 is more relax. They sounded different to me though. They both provide a lift compared to 6AS7G and 6080. I still prefer 5998 over 7236.
  
 6080, 7236 and 5998 have 6500, 12500 and 15000 transconductance respectively.
  
 see impressions here
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/532663/tung-sol-7236-up-for-grabs-worth-the-buy-wa3-owner
  
 Chatham has a clean, airy, detail and clear sound whereas 5998 is more energised. My simplistic way of putting it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> It's really up to personal preference, as well as matching with driver and headphone. I guess I will never get to try the 7236 with EL3N. Whilst I regretted selling it but I'm glad it makes you happy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Actually, the difference you describe between the Chatham and 5998 is similar to the difference I am hearing between the 7236 and the 5998. I'll make you a deal. If you come to Arizona to visit your brother, when we get together I'll give you back the 7236s as a welcome to Scottsdale present)))
  
 And this is just for you:


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Man, all the hype is true! These tubes really sound great right out of the box.
> 
> End game? Probably.....


 
  
 I was hold my breath through your entire post!!! Very glad it had a happy ending )))
  
 I'll just echo what UT said about the adapters. After I got the tubes in the first time, it was pretty easy to take them out and put them back in.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Actually, the difference you describe between the Chatham and 5998 is similar to the difference I am hearing between the 7236 and the 5998. I'll make you a deal. If you come to Arizona to visit your brother, when we get together I'll give you back the 7236s as a welcome to Scottsdale present)))
> 
> And this is just for you:


 
  
 The 7236 is yours now. I have enough sound signatures here to keep me happy but thanks for the welcome to Scottsdale. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Georgy Girl song is lovely. The female singer has a lovely voice and a radiant smile.
  
 I'm listening to Seekers songs now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The evergreen songs of yesteryears.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> The 7236 is yours now. I have enough sound signatures here to keep me happy but thanks for the welcome to Scottsdale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks ))) From what I'm hearing, the EL3N/7236 combo is working magic with my HD700s
  
 I hope you saw this in the comments on YouTube:
  
_"Back in 1967, when The Seekers returned home to Australia for a visit, little did they know that their free concert at the Myer Music Bowl in their home town of Melbourne would break attendance records for the Southern hemisphere and TV ratings records for Australia, a record which still stands today."_


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks ))) From what I'm hearing, the EL3N/7236 combo is working magic with my HD700s
> 
> I hope you saw this in the comments on YouTube:
> 
> _"Back in 1967, when The Seekers returned home to Australia for a visit, little did they know that their free concert at the Myer Music Bowl in their home town of Melbourne would break attendance records for the Southern hemisphere and TV ratings records for Australia, a record which still stands today."_


 

 Oh yes they were big. Sold > 50 millions records, became Australians of the Year 1968 and inducted into ARIA Hall of Fame.
  
 I love this song


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Actually, the difference you describe between the Chatham and 5998 is similar to the difference I am hearing between the 7236 and the 5998. I'll make you a deal. If you come to Arizona to visit your brother, when we get together I'll give you back the 7236s as a welcome to Scottsdale present)))
> 
> And this is just for you:




  
 And for me too, pct?...I _loved_ that song! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  


untilthen said:


> Oh yes they were big. Sold > 50 millions records, became Australians of the Year 1968 and inducted into ARIA Hall of Fame.
> 
> I love this song




  
 OMG! guys...now you're _really_ taking me back, lol!...am gonna have to try and find those old records - _somewhere_ in the loft (attic)!...."Like a drum, my heart was beating"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 But the biggest surprise was when I first heard once more (for over 30 yrs!) Peter, Paul and Mary singing "In the Early Morning Rain" via Elise and T1s....I nearly cried, lol!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...Keep the 'golden oldies' comin', folks!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> OMG! guys...now you're _really_ taking me back, lol!...am gonna have to try and find those old records - _somewhere_ in the loft (attic)!...."Like a drum, my heart was beating"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait till you hear me sing. You'll need a whole box of tissues !!!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen and @hypnos1.  I'm curious as to how the Chatham 6AS7G and/or GEC 6AS7G compare to TS 5998. I got a pair of 5998s and have had them in the Elise briefly. Maybe mine is an inferior pair but they are pretty microphonic (not really a problem for me). However, from my brief comparison I don't like them nearly as much with the EL3Ns and my HD700s as I do the pair of 7236s I bought from UT.


 
  
 Yo, pct - and from what I have gleaned over _many_ months of searching different impressions - I think this is possibly why I personally have never bothered to grab a pair of 5998s...the 'Chatham' sound always steered me towards seeking out a _reasonable_ deal on some GEC/Osrams. And I thank the Gods I was lucky enough to find some before the prices reached their current _ludicrous_ level!...and which I would _*not*_ recommend paying, given the tremendous sound that the Chathams now give when paired with the EL3N especially, lol!
  
 Glad you are finding that the 7236s give you what you obviously enjoy...CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Wait till you hear me sing. You'll need a whole box of tissues !!!


 
  
 You mean a _real_ case of "The Carnival is Over", lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...best stick to the XO, methinks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

Ah don't write off the 5998. When you listen to it, you'll be singing like Mike Jagger.


----------



## aqsw

Georgy Girl,
  
 First record I ever bought. (on 45 rpm)


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Ah don't write off the 5998. When you listen to it, you'll be singing like Mike Jagger.





 Sorry UT....that has _definitely_ confirmed a _*NO WAY*_ then...thanks, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Georgy Girl,
> 
> First record I ever bought. (on 45 rpm)


 

 aqsw, get your EL3N adapters quick and play Georgy Girl.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys...I can't believe nobody grabbed this offer, as a spare EL3N...:...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-TUBE-RADIO-TSF-TRANSCO-EL3N-/321965870346?hash=item4af6a94d0a%3Ag%3AG5AAAOSwf-VWUi%7ET&nma=true&si=bAFv7yaAnKoUKzcb%252FkbI2SDbA7E%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 14 Euros + 10 Euros shipping (13.50 Euros for US)...this is exactly like the one I mentioned a while ago - but even stronger! (NOS values). These tubes - and probably any other similar ones - are _every_ bit as good as the Philips 'Red Series'...ie. with the red band. As 0 bids, presumably it will be relisted some time soon...._GO FOR IT!!_


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Georgy Girl,
> 
> First record I ever bought. (on 45 rpm)


 
  
 So do as UT says, mon ami...and I pray to _all_ the Gods you have the same tremendous good fortune mordy has just enjoyed, lol!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys...I can't believe nobody grabbed this offer, as a spare EL3N...:...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-TUBE-RADIO-TSF-TRANSCO-EL3N-/321965870346?hash=item4af6a94d0a%3Ag%3AG5AAAOSwf-VWUi%7ET&nma=true&si=bAFv7yaAnKoUKzcb%252FkbI2SDbA7E%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> 14 Euros + 10 Euros shipping (13.50 Euros for US)...this is exactly like the one I mentioned a while ago - but even stronger! (NOS values). These tubes - and probably any other similar ones - are _every_ bit as good as the Philips 'Red Series'...ie. with the red band. As 0 bids, presumably it will be relisted some time soon...._GO FOR IT!!_


 

 But I have enough to do this with 2 to spare.. I NEED this to sound good.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> OMG! guys...now you're _really_ taking me back, lol!...am gonna have to try and find those old records - _somewhere_ in the loft (attic)!....


 
  
 This thread needs a new title.
  
_Old geezers reminiscing._


----------



## pctazhp

My head is going in countless different directions - all good )))) Peter, Paul and Mary, 45 RPMs, tubes with red stripes from decades past, the Stones singing Mick Jagger's girlfriend's "As Tears Go By" (which I guess he wrote), visions of UT singing, and on and on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What could possibly be better - listening to the Elise and reading this thread at the same time


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> 9:52 AM. My iPhone buzzes: USPS text message - tracking #xxxx has been delivered In/At Mailbox
> 
> I run outside - there it is: My EL3N adapters have arrived!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great news and a great story!


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> This thread needs a new title.
> 
> _Old geezers reminiscing._


 
  
 Aaawww...gi' us a break, O....this is one of the few remaining pleasures in life - apart from being in love with Elise, that is!!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> But I have enough to do this with 2 to spare.. I NEED this to sound good.


 
  
 Oh my dear UT...I do hope you're not heading for a fall, after my own disappointing result LOL!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but miracles _do_ sometimes happen! And if _anyone_ is going to be lucky, then I'm quite sure it would be you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GOOD LUCK!....


----------



## UntilThen

NEWS FLASH
  
 Fivre 6N7G brown base and EL3N coming up in a minute.... 
  
 I hear a rumbling....more like an earthquake.


----------



## UntilThen

*Fivre 6N7G brown base and EL3N*
  
 Listening to "I Can't Tell You Why" by Eagles.
  
 volume at 11.5 loud.... I'm convince now that we can use EL3N as power tubes. At 12noon, bass is thunderous and I sat transfixed ... mesmerised !!!  OMG volume at 1pm with T1 and this is <speechless>.
  
 This is it folks. A new dawn. We need no other power tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> situation is HUMPHREY!
> 
> No adapters, no hum - YIPPEE!
> 
> ...





Congrats Mordy on the EL3N's and no HUM!! Yeah!

To get the European Side Mount tubes in/out of the sockets more easily...don't push straight down.

Instead, roll them in put the 4 closest paddles in first then roll in the other paddles.

Same when taking them out, roll towards the 4 closest paddles...

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *Fivre 6N7G brown base and EL3N*
> 
> Listening to "I Can't Tell You Why" by Eagles.
> 
> ...




I like this particular combo, too


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> 5998 has a more energetic sound.


 
  
 Very dynamic. Indeed too dynamic for me in the DV 336se. Unfortunately I only have a single...


----------



## UntilThen

Pure silence between songs. EL3N as power tubes exhibit no distortion at loud volume ..no hum.. nada. Head bobbing now.
  
 Sound has substance now. Energy and vitality. There's warm and sparkles at the same time. Very linear too.
  
 Roberta Flack now..so smooth and sweet.
  
 I think with Mazda 6N7G as drivers probably better. More sparkles.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, 6N7G as drivers and EL3N as powers is a perfect combo. I love it.

This, is also SUPERB:



Two words:

*DYNAMIC* and *SOUNDSTAGE*

Add *Accurate* and *Exciting*...and you got it!!

Cheers to us, the *LUCKY ONES*!!!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Aaawww...gi' us a break, O....this is one of the few remaining pleasures in life - apart from being in love with Elise, that is!!!


 
  
 The Seekers? Pretty good akshually!


----------



## tjw321

w00t! My EL3N adapters were sitting waiting for me when I got home today. The EL3Ns sound fantastic and really help with a lot of the older music I have (I suspect that explains the direction this thread has taken recently). Listened to some Bill Haley, Jack Scott, Johnny Burnette and Buddy Holly and they all sounded better than I've heard them on anything before. Also tried War of the Worlds and Gladiator and the EL3Ns loved those too.
 Currently back with my usual Sam Cooke (via Julie London, of course) and loving every second.
 Sorry, too busy listening to my ELis3e(N) to post more just now....see you in a week or two.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> w00t! My EL3N adapters were sitting waiting for me when I got home today. The EL3Ns sound fantastic and really help with a lot of the older music I have (I suspect that explains the direction this thread has taken recently). Listened to some Bill Haley, Jack Scott, Johnny Burnette and Buddy Holly and they all sounded better than I've heard them on anything before. Also tried War of the Worlds and Gladiator and the EL3Ns loved those too.
> Currently back with my usual Sam Cooke (via Julie London, of course) and loving every second.
> Sorry, too busy listening to my ELis3e(N) to post more just now....see you in a week or two.


 

 Nice TJ. This is indeed a special tube. I'm enjoying EL3N as powers so much. Will try different drivers with it today. Sounds good with any songs or genre.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, 6N7G as drivers and EL3N as powers is a perfect combo. I love it.
> 
> This, is also SUPERB:
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW!! I leave for an hour and when I get back the entire universe has turned upside down ))))


----------



## UntilThen

I like this. As expected, Mazda 6N7G is brighter than the Fivre 6N7G brown base. This sound is very clear, very detail and impactful. Well tempered sound.


----------



## UntilThen

I wouldn't have expected Elise to be so versatile. All these combinations now sound even better with the arrival of EL3N. As driver and as power tubes, I am consistently getting very good results with EL3N.
  
 One of my fav singers - Holly Cole


----------



## Oskari

Something contemporary for a change:


----------



## aqsw

Has anybody tried the el3ns as drivers and powers? I thought the pic was just a photo shoot.

I have 8 el3ns. If it works, I can buy another Elise and have el3ns for it too.

Still waiting on adapters. Only have two ordered though.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Has anybody tried the el3ns as drivers and powers? I thought the pic was just a photo shoot.
> 
> I have 8 el3ns. If it works, I can buy another Elise and have el3ns for it too.


 

 AQ, I'm waiting for another pair of adapters to arrive..probably on the 25th Jan.
  
 Eight !!!


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> Something contemporary for a change:




 Thanks)) It doesn't get much better than that. Meets my geezer criteria: Beat, Melody and Heart. It's ageless


----------



## aqsw

Yeah, I bought four from Peter. Then I heard he was getting short so I placed an order for another four. I got the quote and then about two days later he was sold out. I figured they were all taken, but he held the four for me from the quote. 
Nice guy, that Peter. Im just hoping they will be the answer to my distortion free Elise. 

Listening to 2031 right now with Chatham 6080s as power. The Ether Cs are even sounding very good. 10 oclock volume which is fairly loud. Starts distorting At about 10:30.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  can you get this to work next?


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I'm listening to Holly Cole right now singing "I Can See Clearly Now". I can't believe what I'm hearing !!!
  
 I don't know how many total hours I've now got on the Elise. I don't keep track and I don't keep it playing while I'm sleeping or gone. But I have a sense it is really starting to come into its own.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. I'm listening to Holly Cole right now singing "I Can See Clearly Now". I can't believe what I'm hearing !!!
> 
> I don't know how many total hours I've now got on the Elise. I don't keep track and I don't keep it playing while I'm sleeping or gone. But I have a sense it is really starting to come into its own.


 
 We need to check into rehab in 6 months time.


----------



## aqsw

Never heard Holly Cole before. She makes the Ethers shine. The instrument seperation is wonderful.(on one trick pony) I just have to turn the volume up a bit compared to my other headphones. No regrets sending my T1s back! Sorry UT.


----------



## UntilThen

Never mind me. I don't expect everyone to love the same headphone 

Ether's fine. Are you listening through LC with Ether?


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Never mind me. I don't expect everyone to love the same headphone
> 
> Ether's fine. Are you listening through LC with Ether?




Yes, 2031 with 6080s. HegelHD12 to EtherCs.

OMG, Not sure if its the dac or the phones, but I've never heard a double bass like that on a recording.
It sounds like my daughter is playing right beside me.

Love Holly Cole.


----------



## aqsw

Going to -38 tonight. I will be under the blankets!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Yes, 2031 with 6080s. HegelHD12 to EtherCs.
> 
> OMG, Not sure if its the dac or the phones, but I've never heard a double bass like that on a recording.
> It sounds like my daughter is playing right beside me.
> ...




Great to hear your enjoying your amp, aqsw!!


----------



## UntilThen

Yes she's a good jazz singer. Lots of albums on Tidal for you to listen to.

I'm surprised you're able to listen from Ether with Elise on 2031 with Mullard 6080. Works?


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Great to hear your enjoying your amp, aqsw!!





untilthen said:


> Yes she's a good jazz singer. Lots of albums on Tidal for you to listen to.
> 
> I'm surprised you're able to listen from Ether with Elise on 2031 with Mullard 6080. Works?





untilthen said:


> Yes she's a good jazz singer. Lots of albums on Tidal for you to listen to.
> 
> I'm surprised you're able to listen from Ether with Elise on 2031 with Mullard 6080. Works?





untilthen said:


> Yes she's a good jazz singer. Lots of albums on Tidal for you to listen to.
> 
> I'm surprised you're able to listen from Ether with Elise on 2031 with Mullard 6080. Works?




Yeah, no distortion till about 10:30. Still loud. 

If I put in Mazdas or 5998 powers, it's a different story.
The 2031 gets hot though.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Yes she's a good jazz singer. Lots of albums on Tidal for you to listen to.
> 
> I'm surprised you're able to listen from Ether with Elise on 2031 with Mullard 6080. Works?




I'm not using Mullard 6080. Im using the $3.00 ebay chatham 6080s.


----------



## aqsw

We are almost there. I could setup my 2x fdd20s tonight, but I may just wait till the el3n adapters come in. Im pretty happy with this setup till then.


----------



## UntilThen

That looks hot


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> But I have enough to do this with 2 to spare.. I NEED this to sound good.


 
 UT, where are the adapters, did I miss something, gone for one day and....?????


----------



## UntilThen

That's a photo shoot for Vogue. 

I'll have another pair of adapters coming to try 4 EL3N in 2 weeks time.

Wish me luck that it will work well.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> That's a photo shoot for Vogue.
> 
> I'll have another pair of adapters coming to try 4 EL3N in 2 weeks time.
> 
> Wish me luck that it will work well.


 
 Not to worry, I will fix this in photoshop for you


----------



## UntilThen

You can't photoshop this post #6344 .  It's already beautiful and more importantly it sounds beautiful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another Lovely sounding Combo:


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Another Lovely sounding Combo:


 
  
 Absolutely.
  
 EL3N and Mullard 6080 is youthful energy. It's the moonwalk combo.


----------



## UntilThen

EL3N AND 5998
  
 presents "The Wall" by Roger Waters
  
 This is dynamite. This is still the BENCHMARK.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> We are almost there. I could setup my 2x fdd20s tonight, but I may just wait till the el3n adapters come in. Im pretty happy with this setup till then.


 

 Sweet setup.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do you prefer the Elise or the Liquid Carbon? 
  
 And how is that Hegel DAC?  I've been drooling over one of those for awhile.


----------



## tjw321

Weird. I have my 200Mbps back everywhere except head-fi which still mostly looks like this:

 Maybe I'm hallucinating since, thanks to my ELis3(N), I've only had about 3 hours sleep. TGIF!


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> Weird. I have my 200Mbps back everywhere except head-fi which still mostly looks like this:
> 
> Maybe I'm hallucinating since, thanks to my ELis3(N), I've only had about 3 hours sleep. TGIF!


 

 Try rebooting modem, PC.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't You .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 EL3N and 5998 is so dynamic.


----------



## UntilThen

You need to switch your tubes every now and then. The change of tone is so interesting. Each new combination will leave me thinking it's the best. However coming back to EL3N and 5998, there's no denying that this is very exciting sound. Hot chilli.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> Sweet setup.  :atsmile:
> 
> Do you prefer the Elise or the Liquid Carbon?
> 
> And how is that Hegel DAC?  I've been drooling over one of those for awhile.



The Elise, no doubt. The Carbon gets zero hours.

The Hegel is unbelievable. I had a Schiit Bifrost before, and the name is close when it comes to openess, air, clarity. They really are ****. I really notice 
the percussion instruments.
Im getting a tube dac built now. I can only hope its as good as the Hegel. Im pretty sure it will be though.

I dont want to crap on the schiit bifrost, as it costs much less than the Hegel. 

I am one of the guys that believe the dac is more important than the amplifier. But, the Elise just ROCKS.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I am one of the guys that believe the dac is more important than the amplifier. But, the Elise just ROCKS.


 
 Amazing praise from you AQ but it's easy to see why. 2031 and 6080 will sound really lovely on Elise. Let's hope EL3N will allow your to dial further into the volume without distortion. Then it will truly rocks.
  
 Elise with these tubes sounds holographic and mesmerising. A real sensory treat.
  
 Listening to Amused to Death - Roger Waters.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Try rebooting modem, PC.


 

 Ha - I know all about "have you tried turning it off and on again". I work in IT - in fact, I "invented" some of the technology that the internet runs on (not really - I have one of those silly software patents which are pretty much meaningless, but every company nowadays patents everything it can, no matter how obvious, and the internet wouldn't work without using that patent). That's how I worked out that it was a hardware problem with my ISP supplied router. I now have a new router so everything should be working...and is, but I think head-fi briefly had problems of it's own (maybe they have my old router?). But thank you (as always) for the help


----------



## UntilThen

In the old days, the dreaded blue screen of death means reboot. Glad we got over that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
  
 Do you really get 200 mbps in UK? Here, 100mbps and we're laughing.


----------



## aqsw

We should make a list of owners. It can't be that hard. There are only about 35 of us. Im sure most of us are on hesd fi.

I'll start

#28 - aqsw - Canada


----------



## UntilThen

I'll compile.
  
 #22


----------



## aqsw

So 

22 - Until Then - Australia
28 - aqsw - Canada (62)

Copy and edit.

I put age in brackets. I think age is a good thing to know. Us old farts, and the new age that believe in tubes.


----------



## aqsw

New Look!

The Hegel and the Elise make a great pair.

I'm thinking of giving them to my wife. Then she'll have two.


----------



## DecentLevi

Alright guys - time for something completely surreal. I just found a treasure chest of binaural records in lossless format... all for free!
  
=subject%3A%22field%20recording%22]Archive.org binaural field recordings 
  
 I just listened to a couple of these and I have never been taken so far out of my chair, so to speak. Although I knew I had not left the room I kept on taking off my headphones to make sure I'm still here... and this was only from my HD650 / LC balanced setup. I'm sure if you guys were to listen to some of these with Elise on a good soundstage headphone you will have the most realistic 'spiritual transportation' experience ever! Here is the one I listened to, but the link above has all the rest.
  
 Note: You can 'preview' the songs, but you need to click on the FLAC download option for each 'album' in order to get the lossless quality. I'm just sharing this with you folks to spread the awesomeness of this and am not making money from this. Also, everything on Archive.org is free because these are just user uploads of home recordings rather than official music.
  
_*Binaural recording* is a method of recording sound that uses two microphones, arranged with the intent to create a 3-Dstereo sound sensation for the listener of actually being in the room with the performers or instruments. This effect is often created using a technique known as "dummy head recording", wherein a mannequin head is outfitted with a microphone in each ear. Binaural recording is intended for replay using *headphones *and will not translate properly over stereo speakers. _


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Pure silence between songs. EL3N as power tubes exhibit no distortion at loud volume ..no hum.. nada. Head bobbing now.
> 
> Sound has substance now. Energy and vitality. There's warm and sparkles at the same time. Very linear too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's great news UT....no distortion at 'loud'? - _marvellous!_ It's gonna be _real_ interesting to see how EL3Ns as powers (with different drivers) compare to EL3N/'conventional' powers....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...But, of course, it'll be even _more_ interesting to see how you get on with EL3N driving EL3N, lol!....do hope you have more luck than I had...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Keep up the good work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, 6N7G as drivers and EL3N as powers is a perfect combo. I love it.
> 
> This, is also SUPERB:
> 
> ...


 
 Great work from you as well, JV! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and look forward to your own comparisons between EL3N as powers vs 'conventional'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And no 'clipping'/break-up/distortion whatsoever at loud either, with prolonged listening?...wonderful!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


tjw321 said:


> w00t! My EL3N adapters were sitting waiting for me when I got home today. The EL3Ns sound fantastic and really help with a lot of the older music I have (I suspect that explains the direction this thread has taken recently). Listened to some Bill Haley, Jack Scott, Johnny Burnette and Buddy Holly and they all sounded better than I've heard them on anything before. Also tried War of the Worlds and Gladiator and the EL3Ns loved those too.
> Currently back with my usual Sam Cooke (via Julie London, of course) and loving every second.
> Sorry, too busy listening to my ELis3e(N) to post more just now....see you in a week or two.


 
  
 So, yet _another_ happy customer, tjw...ah well, we're not all dreaming after all, then - _*that's good!!!*_





 ....CHEERS!!.........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aqsw said:


> New Look!


 
  
 Looks *GOOD*, aqsw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....and things are indeed also looking very promising for you and the EL3N magic, lol!...can't wait....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> That's great news UT....no distortion at 'loud'? - _marvellous!_ It's gonna be _real_ interesting to see how EL3Ns as powers (with different drivers) compare to EL3N/'conventional' powers....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1, it's not EL3N driving EL3N that is worrying me. I am almost certain that will work but the question is how well. 
  
 However, what is in the back of my mind was about posing a question to Lukasz on using 6 EL3Ns some time ago.  
  
 I shall go to sleep tonight with a smile as well as a pounding in my heart. Now I need more than luck.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  can you get this to work next?


 
  
 Wouldn't that be nice, UT..._beautiful_ looking thing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but not for us, alas - I believe it's a direct-heated cathode type for starters, and not suitable for a whole load of other reasons also, no doubt...so..._*SORRY!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....now _*stop looking, lol!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....give us a break! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!!


----------



## vince741

22 - Until Then - Australia
28 - aqsw - Canada (62)
37 - vince741 - France (25)



untilthen said:


> Why the LCD2.2 then?



A man got to have a fat (sub) bass sometimes


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'll compile.
> 
> #22


 
 #34 - pctazhp - USA(71)


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> #22 - Until Then - Australia
> #28 - aqsw - Canada (62)
> #37 - vince741 - France (25)
> #34 - pctazhp - USA(71)




#19 - JazzVinyl - USA (Old enough to know better)


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @pctazhp and @UntilThen....#1 here. Whoever compiles the full (as far as is possible, that is!) list of owners, please let me know and I'll add it to the first posts on this thread and the original...(with any luck, that is! - still haven't updated them with all our latest findings....they've been too numerous....can't keep up, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Spent last evening with EL3N as drivers and Mullard 6080 as powers, Sony NWZ-A17 (Hi-Rez) DAP, as source and I must say...I was enthralled.

Big time soul transportation, I was really amazed at the EL3N. They are remarkable tubes. There is a Lushness that is engrossing. Sounds better (on most recordings) that I had ever heard them.

'Tis rather amazing!

Cheers...


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Spent last evening with EL3N as drivers and Mullard 6080 as powers, Sony NWZ-A17 (Hi-Rez) DAP, as source and I must say...I was enthralled.
> 
> Big time soul transportation, I was really amazed at the EL3N. They are remarkable tubes. There is a Lushness that is engrossing. Sounds better (on most recordings) that I had ever heard them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV....apparently those Mullards are already a 'lush', warm tube, so driven by the EL3N I bet they're a _*HONEY POT, lol! *_





.
 And yes, truly remarkable tubes indeed...we can dial in pretty well whatever flavour of sound we like just by pairing with different powers, let alone different HPs lol!....a _*sensational*_ discovery - that _*no-one*_ can deny!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...who else is going to become one of the "*LUCKY ONES"*?...


----------



## puffmtd

Wow, you guys have been busy with all the tube combinations!  I can't wait to try some of them but between a lot going on at work and a wicked sinus infection, I haven't had much time to do anything but squeeze in a short listening session here and there.
 Still waiting on the adapters for the EL3N and C3g's.  Hopefully my head will be cleared up by the time they get here!


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Have been running the EL3N as drivers with the Mullards as power tubes. A really sweet combination. After 12 hours what strikes me is the linearity of the FR and the glorious bass and treble, and everything else for that matter. And the EL3Ns are supposed to get better and better....
  
 Today I decided to try the EL3N as power tubes to see if they have enough power to drive the amp with a good bass response. The driver tubes chosen for this experiment were the 6BL7 (why not?).
  




  
 I attached a magnificent close up of the fiery innards of a C3g to the back of the amp. Beryllium. (Found this picture on the internet from a Swedish source)
  
 Hum: Almost non existent - cannot hear any hum with headphones with volume to max (maybe a faint hint). Turning the volume on the integrated amp to max results in a faint hiss. Anything below 95% volume is silent. Anyhow, these very high listening levels are impractical.
  
 Sound: Nice - analytical and less involving than the EL3N driver/Mullard 6080 power combination. Plenty of bass.
  
 Headphone volume is more than sufficient at 10-11 o'clock.
  
 Conclusion: The EL3N are suited as power tubes.
  
 Add to the list:
  
 9 - Mordy - USA (69)


----------



## hypnos1

puffmtd said:


> Wow, you guys have been busy with all the tube combinations!  I can't wait to try some of them but between a lot going on at work and a wicked sinus infection, I haven't had much time to do anything but squeeze in a short listening session here and there.
> Still waiting on the adapters for the EL3N and C3g's.  Hopefully my head will be cleared up by the time they get here!


 
  
 Yo puffmtd....the last thing we want is anything to spoil your enjoyment of these wonder tubes, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Hope the sinuses _and _the adapters comply _very _soon!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

@aqsw can you take over this compiling ?
  
 #1 – hypnos1 - UK
 #9 - Mordy - USA (69)
 #19 - JazzVinyl – USA
 #21 – Suuup - Denmark 
 #22 - UntilThen – Australia
 #23 - mppl
 #28 - aqsw - Canada (62)
 #37 - vince741 - France (25)
 #34 - pctazhp – USA (71)


----------



## puffmtd

hypnos1 said:


> Yo puffmtd....the last thing we want is anything to spoil your enjoyment of these wonder tubes, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks hypnos, this stuffiness and ringing in my ears will pass and I can get back to the music. 
 I've been burning in the 5998's in the meantime and looking forward to hearing them the proper way. 
 It looks like someone has started an owner's list......................?
 #32 - puffmtd - USA (60)


----------



## UntilThen

*I've have had varying degrees of success with these EL3N combinations:-*
  

*Driver**Power**Rating*EL3N5998GoodEL3NChatham 6AS7GGoodEL3NMullard 6080GoodEL3NGE 6AS7GAGoodEL3NC3GOkEL3NPhilco 6N7GOkEL3NECC31Bad *C3GEL3NOkECC31EL3NOkFivre 6N7G brown baseEL3NOkMazda 6N7GEL3NOk   
 * ECC31 has a flash of flame go up the filament on the right power tube and thereafter won't light up. I remove the tube and replace another ECC31 tube and same problem. The tubes weren't damaged though. It can be used again as driver after this episode. I've since not tried using ECC31 as power tubes again. I was afraid of damaging Elise as well as ECC31 tubes if I persist with this experiment.
  
_Notes:- _
  
_With EL3N as driver and a 'conventional' power, HE560 (planar magnetic and inefficient at 45 ohms and ~90db was driven effortlessly. HE560 - 12 o'clock loud. T1 - 11 o'clock loud. HD650 - 10 o'clock loud_
_            _
_With EL3N as power, HE560 struggles and volume needs to be increase to 2pm. Beyond 3pm, distortion starts to creep in. Dynamic headphones like T1, HD650 has no problems with EL3N as power tubes. 12 and 11 o'clock is loud respectively._
  
_It's for the above reason (HE560 getting distortion at high volume) that I am not as keen using EL3N as power tubes but with T1 and HD650, there were no hint of problems and SQ sounds just as good._
  
_T1 - 600 ohms 102db_
_HD650 - 300 ohms 103db_
_HE560 - 45 ohms 90db (source HiFiman site ; elsewhere quoted as 35ohms)_


----------



## UntilThen

untilthen said:


> @aqsw can you take over this compiling ?
> 
> #1 – hypnos1 - UK
> #9 - Mordy - USA (69)
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Patricia Barber - audiophile quality voice and this song 'My Girl' is lovely. Listen to a better quality version like Tidal HiFi quality.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> @aqsw
> can you take over this compiling ?
> 
> #1 – hypnos1 - UK
> ...




Sure can


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Your table confirms what I wrote before we tried the EL3N as power tubes - that power tubes are different than driver tubes, and driver tubes may not work optimally as power tubes in the Elise because of the way it was designed. I also doubted that having four identical tubes would result in great sound,
 something that I found out when trying four 6080 and four 6BL7 tubes (although the EL3N may surprise us...)
  
 In your table there isn't one combination with the EL3N as a power tube that is listed as "good" - only "OK".
  
 The other conclusion I came to is the old adage that "there is no substitution for horse power."
 As seen in your table, all the 2.5A power tubes listed did very well with the EL3N as drivers.
  
 Just tried the EL3N as powers with the C3g as drivers:
  




  
 As you said - OK. I am not trying any more combinations with the EL3N as drivers - they belong on the front row! Bring on the magic!
  
 As an aside, for the first time I heard pinging from a tube for a few minutes - came from the left EL3N tube. It sounded as if somebody was tapping lightly on a glass. Fortunately, it went away after a few minutes.


----------



## aqsw

Up to 37 already. Lucasz has been busy.


----------



## UntilThen

Continuing on my series of audiophile quality female voice. This is Christy Baron. Another of my favourite.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is my favorite version of 'Ain't No Sunshine':

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gA1F_5DXo7E[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> In your table there isn't one combination with the EL3N as a power tube that is listed as "good" - only "OK".


 
 Hi Mordy, I left them as 'Ok because I haven't had enough impression / time on them to give them a tick of 'Good'. I think they can sound good. It's just the lost of gain that psychologically makes my mind think of them as not as good.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Up to 37 already. Lucasz has been busy.


 

 How did you know it's up to 37? Who is 37 ?
  
 Wait how does vince knows that he's 37 when he has just ordered ???


----------



## mordy

The Magic is back! In spades!
  
 EL3N driver and Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes. Fat luscious bass, energy, synergy... I am just sitting here with a big smile on my face.
  




  
 Viva le Coke bottle!
  
 From now on the EL3N will only travel first class - no back seat role!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The Magic is back! In spades!
> 
> EL3N driver and Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes. Fat luscious bass, energy, synergy... I am just sitting here with a big smile on my face.
> 
> ...


 

 HAHAHA ... that's quote of the month !!! 
  
 This is one of 2 combinations that keeps me on the edge of my seat. The other being EL3N and 5998. Mullard 6080 is very close for me. YMMV.


----------



## vince741

untilthen said:


> How did you know it's up to 37? Who is 37 ?
> 
> Wait how does vince knows that he's 37 when he has just ordered ???


 
 The number was on my paypal invoice.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> The number was on my paypal invoice.


 

 Ok...but that's not necessary the same when you do get Elise eventually. As in my case.....
  
 Invoice number and Elise serial number do not necessary correlate.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 The EL3N/Mullard combination is also excellent - used this for the first listening session.
  
 As far as I am concerned there is no contest - the EL3N works so much better as a driver.
  
 I have one 5998 - looking for a second one if the price is right.
  
 Next got to try the 6AS7GA


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> The Magic is back! In spades!
> 
> EL3N driver and Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes. Fat luscious bass, energy, synergy... I am just sitting here with a big smile on my face.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy....it's so good to see you now up there in 'Dreamland', 'Heaven', the Clouds... (and beyond!!) with the rest of us EL3N lovers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. And it's looking like I was right after all telling UT that EL3N + 5998 should be his benchmark, lol!.....only now we must add EL3N + Chatham 6AS7G, methinks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And yes, _*Vive la Coke bottle!!*_...as we shouted quite a while ago now...and I reckon we always shall, no?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....HAPPY LISTENING!!.....


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> The EL3N/Mullard combination is also excellent - used this for the first listening session.
> 
> ...


 
 Agree with all you say there...especially that bit in bold...my ears aren't deceiving me too even though I'd like EL3N to sound good as power tubes. However EL3N has been so amazing, I just have to find out what 4 EL3N will sound like. I think H1 uses 3 and one GEC 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yup get one more 5998 and let me see your smile when you use GE 6AS7GA.


----------



## UntilThen

I wanted to showcase Eva Cassidy because she's special and a great singer but look what I've got here. 2 of my favourite singers singing my favourite song by Louis Armstrong.


----------



## tjw321

I'm number 20 in the UK and there are a few other owner/serial number pairs listed on the old thread starting from about here:http://www.head-fi.org/t/732875/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype/2010


----------



## tjw321

I found these on the old thread:
  
  
 004 Renderman NL
 007 Shaffer USA
 013 Lord Raven Saudi Arabis
 015 agnostic1er France
 016 K4RL USA
 020 tjw321 UK


----------



## aqsw

#01 – hypnos1 - UK
#04 - Renderman - NL
#07 - Shaffer - USA
#09 - Mordy - USA (69)
#13 - Lord Raven -Saudi Arabia
#15 - agnostic1er - France
#16 - K4RL - USA
#19 - JazzVinyl – USA
#20 - tjw31 - UK
#21 – Suuup - Denmark 
#22 - UntilThen – Australia
#23 - mppl
#28 - aqsw - Canada (62)
#34 - pctazhp - USA (71)


----------



## JazzVinyl

I also agree that the EL3N is best enjoyed as a driver tube.

Ummm, Ummm, good!


----------



## Oskari

#01 - hypnos1 - UK
 #03 - Oskari - Finland
 #04 - Renderman - NL
 #07 - Shaffer - USA
 #09 - Mordy - USA (69)
 #13 - Lord Raven - Saudi Arabia
 #15 - agnostic1er - France
 #16 - K4RL - USA
 #19 - JazzVinyl - USA
 #20 - tjw321 - UK
 #21 - Suuup - Denmark
 #22 - UntilThen - Australia
 #23 - mppl
 #28 - aqsw - Canada (62)
 #32 - puffmtd - USA (60)
 #34 - pctazhp - USA (71)


----------



## UntilThen

The list is starting to look like the United Nations.


----------



## UntilThen

post #6054 it's been 6 days ago since I heard Elise with EL3N and Mullard 6080. As per that impression and from the rest of you, this is easily one of the quad combo that I love, which are:-
  
 EL3N and 5998
 EL3N and Chatham 6AS7GA
 EL3N and Mullard 6080
 EL3N and GE 6AS7GA


----------



## UntilThen

Art Garfunkel sang Bridge Over Troubled Waters and that is permanently etched in our minds. However Eva Cassidy comes along much later and gave a soul stirring performance of a lifetime.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Indeed Eva Cassidy was especially gifted.

RIP, Eva:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Cassidy


----------



## UntilThen

Just found my posts on my favourite combos. Will use this as a base for a write up.
  
post #6004 EL3N and 5998
post #5994 EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G
post #6054 EL3N and Mullard 6080
post #6076 EL3N and GE 6AS7GA
post #5993 EL3N and C3G
  
  
post #5998 Question to Lukasz
 I have a reply from Lukasz on this.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Just found my posts on my favourite combos. Will use this as a base for a write up.
> 
> post #6004 EL3N and 5998
> post #5994 EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G
> ...


 

 Welp...I have the tubes to try three of those combos as soon as the adapters arrive.  Can't wait.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> post #5998 Question to Lukasz
> I have a reply from Lukasz on this.


 
  
 Another UT cliffhanger.


----------



## puffmtd

Wow, ask and you shall receive.............the adapters just showed up at the door.  Time to get busy.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Another UT cliffhanger.


 

 Yes it's my Waterloo. Would you believe it? See the number on the post question for _*SIX*_ EL3N? post #5998    *5998*
  
 My Pal apologise for the long time it took for him to respond on this. Said he almost fainted .... but señor Feliks had a long look at it and was deep in thoughts... short answer I was told....in theory it could work if the adapters are correct but I do that at my own risk and he finish off with a big


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> My Pal apologise for the long time it took for him to respond on this. Said he almost fainted .... but señor Feliks had a long look at it and was deep in thoughts... short answer I was told....in theory it could work if the adapters are correct but I do that at my own risk and he finish off with a big


 
  
 More adapters for UT then?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> More adapters for UT then?


 
 Let me meditate first.


----------



## UntilThen

Where's @puffmtd ? What happened to EL3N ? Did it sing ?


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Where's @puffmtd ? What happened to EL3N ? Did it sing ?


 

 Trying to get my thoughts together.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I was saving the EL3N for later tonight trying to save the best for last (possibly?) so I rolled in the C3g. 
 If the EL3N make it any better than this I don't know what I'm going to do. 
 The 5998 with the stock drivers tended to overpower some of the other instruments with bass on some tracks but the C3g as a driver has brought it back into balance and the sound is glorious.  
 I had the tiniest hum with the 5998 and stock drivers but that is now gone.  Yay!


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Trying to get my thoughts together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yay for C3G and 5998. That's in the Hall of Fame. Enjoy it. Soak it in. EL3N and 5998 can come later. When I see you this happy I'm thinking of this song...
  
 which I absolutely love.....


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Yay for C3G and 5998. That's in the Hall of Fame. Enjoy it. Soak it in. EL3N and 5998 can come later. When I see you this happy I'm thinking of this song...
> 
> which I absolutely love.....





 I got to see Conway and Loretta Lynn in concert many years ago.....they put on an amazing show.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> I got to see Conway and Loretta Lynn in concert many years ago.....they put on an amazing show.


 

 You're my man. You know I listen to everything right? I love Loretta Lynn........... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Morale of this song...don't wait too long to listen to the EL3N... or she'll run away....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Weeee doggies, y'all...

Here's a little test to see if your cans, can handle real bass playin'


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zLk2HW0K48 [/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Weeee doggies, y'all...
> 
> Here's a little test to see if your cans, can handle real bass playin'


 
 Try this instead. Don't blame me if your cones fly out.


----------



## Lorspeaker

is this the fastestmovingthread on headfi...? u guys are prolific posters


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## UntilThen

Black Sabbath Greatest Hits with EL3N and 5998. Now we're rocking. 
  
@Lorspeaker we've a long way to catch you...so working on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@puffmtd you can't go to bed yet...you have not heard the E L 3 N.


----------



## DecentLevi

Have any of you tried some of the lossless binaural recordings on Elise? I don't think anything can prepare you for this experience...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Have any of you tried some of the lossless binaural recordings on Elise? I don't think anything can prepare you for this experience...


 

 I'll be buying the Chesky version from HD Tracks now to try. $19.98  20% discount for doing a survey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My 3rd HD tracks purchase lol. Very good recording at 24/192khz.
  

  
  
 UNREAL !!!   360 DEGREES sound.  LOL...left and right speakers sound assaulting my ears.
  
 Oooh Pamafunk by The Brooklyn Funk Band is very good.
  
 Bach Toccata And Fugue (Johann Sebastian Bach) by Gregory D'Agostino
  
 Westside Blues by Westside Jazz Quartet
  
 Bach Suite no.2 for unaccompanied cello: Sarabande; Suite no.1 for unaccompanied cello: Prelude by Dave Eggar
  
 Drum Solo by Todd Turkisher
  
 Binocerous by The Widgets
  
 Mozart Divertemento in D Mov 1 by The Manhattan Chamber Ensemble


----------



## puffmtd

Try this one on.  One of my favorite songs and album.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Try this one on.  One of my favorite songs and album.


 
 Yes very good.
  
 I had on my DAP direct to Elise just to check volume. 11 o'clock on T1 600 ohms - LOUD.  Fiio X5 using 3.5mm to 2 RCA > Elise > T1.


----------



## i20bot

untilthen said:


> Try this instead. Don't blame me if your cones fly out.




 Good Lord.  Played that outta my desktop system and that's some deeeeeeeeeeep hard hitting bass.


----------



## UntilThen

i20bot said:


> Good Lord.  Played that outta my desktop system and that's some deeeeeeeeeeep hard hitting bass.


 

 Your speakers are still alive I hope.


----------



## puffmtd

Well rats, the EL3N installed and a pretty significant hum.  I'm hoping it's just one of the adapters not gripping tight enough.  One of the adapters holds the tubes without any movement and the other lets the tube move around side to side.
 I've tried switching tubes and I get the same results on that same adapter with different tubes.  I thought I read somewhere here that there was a way to tighten up the little side plates in the adapters but I can't find it.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Well rats, the EL3N installed and a pretty significant hum.  I'm hoping it's just one of the adapters not gripping tight enough.  One of the adapters holds the tubes without any movement and the other lets the tube move around side to side.
> I've tried switching tubes and I get the same results on that same adapter with different tubes.  I thought I read somewhere here that there was a way to tighten up the little side plates in the adapters but I can't find it.


 

 Gimme a sec. I'll find the picture to show you what to do. Did you have a hard time getting the tube into the adapter? I wonder if you have flattened the spring clips in the process but not to worry..brb.


----------



## UntilThen

*How to push out the spring clips in adapter.*
  
 See this picture? With a small flat screw driver, insert the tip into the base of the spring clip as shown in the picture. Gently push the screw driver handle downwards. That will push the middle part of the spring clip out. Do that evenly for all the spring clips in the adapter. Then reinsert the tube and it should be tight.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Gimme a sec. I'll find the picture to show you what to do. Did you have a hard time getting the tube into the adapter? I wonder if you have flattened the spring clips in the process but not to worry..brb.


 

 Initially putting them in was hard but they slide in and out pretty easy now.  I saw the pic you posted....I'll try that and see if it helps.  Thank you sir!


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Initially putting them in was hard but they slide in and out pretty easy now.  I saw the pic you posted....I'll try that and see if it helps.  Thank you sir!


 
 That means you've loosen it too much when inserting... probably several times?  Do what I say in the previous post and it will be a tight fit again.


----------



## UntilThen

@puffmtd  any luck?


----------



## Lorspeaker

calmmm down guys,  sleeeeep.....sleeeeeep
  
 ps...the taiko drums kick in 3/4 down the vid to wake u up


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> calmmm down guys,  sleeeeep.....sleeeeeep
> 
> ps...the taiko drums kick in 3/4 down the vid to wake u up


 
 Hmmm nice video, nice picture who can resist. Let me put on my headphone and listen to this taiko drums. Memories of my trip to Japan in 2010 comes right back.
  
  @puffmtd did you fix it? Hurry up and listen to this Japanese calming music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 How can I sleep at 7pm?


----------



## UntilThen

@Lorspeaker this music is putting me to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Do you have something exciting?


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> @puffmtd  any luck?


 

 I've taken a break and watching a movie.  I have been lining up the tabs while I watch.....Sicario.  So far it's a pretty good show.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> @Lorspeaker this music is putting me to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Do you have something exciting?


 

 Hey...I like this music.  It's almost 3:00am here and I have to go to bed in three hours or so.  Maybe this will wind me down?


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Hey...I like this music.  It's almost 3:00am here and I have to go to bed in three hours or so.  Maybe this will wind me down?


 

 This will help you to sleep.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> This will help you to sleep.





 Lenny Kravitz at the Kennedy Center...amazing performance.  Now I can spend the rest of the night listening to Led Zeppelin instead of sleeping.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Now I can spend the rest of the night listening to Led Zeppelin instead of sleeping.


 
  
 Did you fix your adapter ?


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Did you fix your adapter ?


 

 I worked on some contacts that I though needed adjusting and reduced the hum quite a bit but the hum that is left is cyclic instead of steady.  I think I will go back to the stock power tubes next and see if that helps.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> I worked on some contacts that I though needed adjusting and reduced the hum quite a bit but the hum that is left is cyclic instead of steady.  I think I will go back to the stock power tubes next and see if that helps.


 

 Well that means it's still not contacting properly. You need to work on all the contacts. Every single one of them. Get it out in the middle. Then your problem will be solve. This has happened with my FDD20 adapter and tube too.
  
 You power tube is fine. It's the driver that is not contacting with the adapter plates. You've flattened it somehow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 New ones should stick out like this...the middle part of the contact.


----------



## puffmtd

I put the stock powers in with the EL3N's and it's dead quiet....no hum at all.  The C3g as a power hummed like a dog.  I think the EL3N's are going to be fine....so far they sound great with the stock powers.  Strange.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> I put the stock powers in with the EL3N's and it's dead quiet....no hum at all.  The C3g as a power hummed like a dog.  I think the EL3N's are going to be fine....so far they sound great with the stock powers.  Strange.


 

 Oh.... I thought you're using 5998 as power tubes? Can you try using the Tung Sol 5998 as power tubes?
  
 Don't use the C3G as power tubes then.


----------



## puffmtd

Yes sir...I was using the 5998 as power when I was getting the hum.  I just threw the C3g as a power for a minute to see how it did and it hummed even worse.  I've got the stock power and the EL3N as drivers and it's dead quiet.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Yes sir...I was using the 5998 as power when I was getting the hum.  I just threw the C3g as a power for a minute to see how it did and it hummed even worse.  I've got the stock power and the EL3N as drivers and it's dead quiet.


 

 Alright enough debugging for one night or morning for you LOL.
  
 At least you have EL3N and Svetlana 6H13C going without any hum. Get more hours into the EL3N ... even in that combo it sounds pretty good. Enjoy !!!
  
 Will talk to you tomorrow about your 5998. There's something wrong there. 
  
 I've EL3N and 5998 on now and Lenny Kravitz is sounding awesome.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Alright enough debugging for one night or morning for you LOL.
> 
> At least you have EL3N and Svetlana 6H13C going without any hum. Get more hours into the EL3N ... even in that combo it sounds pretty good. Enjoy !!!
> 
> ...


 

 I agree.  I'm off to get some sleep.  Hope you enjoy the rest of your day and thanks for all your help.


----------



## UntilThen

You're welcome. I'm trying EL3N with stock power tubes again now. Sounds pretty good lol. EL3N does wonders.
  
 Wow EL3N and Svetlana 6H13C sounds good. We have no shortage of power tubes now. 'Can't Get You Out Of My Mind' by Lenny sounds crazily good. Just turn up the volume and let it rip.


----------



## UntilThen

This is a revelation. EL3N is making the stock power tubes sound good. Try it guys. It's not longer close and shut in. EL3N is indeed in the driver's seat.
  
 Which brings to mind what you said H1. That Chatham 6AS7G is very alike GEC 6AS7G with EL3N. I think EL3N is a dominant force in any power tubes used. I'm hearing it's sonic signature in all instance.


----------



## 2359glenn

You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes very good.
> 
> I had on my DAP direct to Elise just to check volume. 11 o'clock on T1 600 ohms - LOUD.  Fiio X5 using 3.5mm to 2 RCA > Elise > T1.




Yes but what is the volume of the X5? Not at "line level" your using the amp inside the X5...


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> The Elise, no doubt. The Carbon gets zero hours.
> 
> The Hegel is unbelievable. I had a Schiit Bifrost before, and the name is close when it comes to openess, air, clarity. They really are ****. I really notice
> the percussion instruments.
> ...




Cheers aqsw,

It is a very nice setup. 

Good to know about the LC. I'm glad I cancelled my order and purchased the Elise! I almost ordered one again but ended up trading my DA200 for a Voilectric V200 and decided I didn't need any more headamps.

The Bifrost was my first true audiophile DAC. I had a similar experience as you. I was really disappointed. I came from an M Audio Revolution 5.1 that I thought was better at 1/6th the price.

I'm going to have to get a hold of a Hegel some how. It looks like there is a dealer close, I'll have to make a trip soon. Have you compared the Hegel to a Yulong DA8 or DA8 II?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB





Very nice, can't wait to hear what you think of it, Glenn.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Amazing sound from EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. EL3N pairs very well with all 4 power tubes. Swapping between T1, HE560 and HD650, this tone is too good. All headphones sounded good with this setup. EL3N really open up past the 40 hours mark.
> 
> @pctazhp
> the sooner you put in the EL3Ns, the better. I'm getting a real blast here.
> ...




Not slacking at all. Work has been a buggar. The title comes with lots of extra after hours work.  One of our board members had their personal laptop crap out on them. They took it to someone that totally screwed it up and I've had to untangle the mess. So I've been dealing with that for the past two weeks.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> Cheers aqsw,
> 
> It is a very nice setup.
> 
> ...




The only dacs I compared it to when I purchased it were the wyre to wyre and a ps labs concero. They looked much nicer, but I just felt something sounded much nicer with the
Hegel in my limited listening session.


----------



## Oskari

lorspeaker said:


> is this the fastestmovingthread on headfi...? u guys are prolific posters


 
  
 Almost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Site stats: http://www.head-fi.org/pages/stats/top/range/30day/


----------



## TomNC

So the dual-EL3N to 6SN7 adapter can be used for many amps using the 6SN7 as as a driver? That would be great.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> The only dacs I compared it to when I purchased it were the wyre to wyre and a ps labs concero. They looked much nicer, but I just felt something sounded much nicer with the
> Hegel in my limited listening session.




Sounds like an incredible DAC. That's some pretty impressive company it bested. I'm definitely going to have to go listen.


----------



## jerick70

oskari said:


> Almost. :rolleyes:
> 
> Site stats: http://www.head-fi.org/pages/stats/top/range/30day/




Number 2 in the last month. OK everyone we need to pick up the posting so we can be #1.....


----------



## jerick70

aqsw which tube DAC are you going to get?


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


 
  
 Hi Glenn...I've a feeling there's a good few people intrigued by our results with this tube, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing straight from the off (as confirmed by all fellow Elise owners!)...and the way it develops is quite remarkable - in the Elise, at least!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 At this point I must thank you once again for your advice on adapting the C3g - this enabled me to have success with the EL3N, of course. And it will be interesting to hear your results using 2x EL3Ns per driver (or _output?!_), as against our single per driver...CHEERS!...
  


jerick70 said:


> Not slacking at all. Work has been a buggar. The title comes with lots of extra after hours work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Let's hope you aren't robbed of your quality Elise time for much longer, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


oskari said:


> Almost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well O, the answer is simple akshually...match @UntilThen's postings, lol!! - if you dare!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


tomnc said:


> So the dual-EL3N to 6SN7 adapter can be used for many amps using the 6SN7 as as a driver? That would be great.


 
  
 Hi TomNC...as we're only using _one_ EL3N per driver, it is yet to be seen how _two_ perform, so the jury is still out...UT is up for trying them as powers - at _some_ time, lol! And perhaps Glenn will have some info soon, if trying as drivers...Plus, of course, different topologies...?...


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


 

 Likewise Glenn, I'm equally intrigued by that adapter. I am 'thinking' of running 4 EL3Ns as powers and 2 EL3N as drivers in Elise but am worried about a 4th of July fireworks. 
  
 Please let us know how you go.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Almost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok what's going on here? Me thinks @Lorspeaker has been adding to my posts...... and @Oskari


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Not slacking at all. Work has been a buggar. The title comes with lots of extra after hours work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Bummer. The life of an IT guy. You need a long holiday like me and more time with Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> The only dacs I compared it to when I purchased it were the wyre to wyre and a ps labs concero. They looked much nicer, but I just felt something sounded much nicer with the
> Hegel in my limited listening session.


 

 AQ I reckon you need to send Hegel my way for more testing


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> aqsw which tube DAC are you going to get?




I ordered this one in all black, with no markings on the faceplate to match the Elise. It is made in Canada, so thise are Canadian Dollars. Very close to the Hegel price actually.

Http://]www.thebestamp.com%2FDA_Converters_USB-DACs%2FDA-24_192-Super.php

I took out the aes input and they are putting in another coax input.

If link does not work see post #4500. On page 300.


----------



## UntilThen

Did any of you try EL3N and stock Svetlana 6H13C ? I want your opinion.


----------



## Oskari

aqsw said:


> www.thebestamp.com%2FDA_Converters_USB-DACs%2FDA-24_192-Super.php


 
  
 Fixed link:
  
http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/DA-24_192-Super.php


----------



## aqsw

oskari said:


> Fixed link:
> 
> http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/DA-24_192-Super.php




Thanks


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Well O, the answer is simple akshually...match @UntilThen's postings, lol!! - if you dare!!!


 
  
 UT is positively untouchable.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> UT is positively untouchable.


 

  
  
 Remember, it's not just positive and negative but *ground* too.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Did any of you try EL3N and stock Svetlana 6H13C ? I want your opinion.


 
  


puffmtd said:


> Wow, ask and you shall receive.............the adapters just showed up at the door.  Time to get busy.


 
  
 I _want_ my adapters! (That should do it.)


----------



## jerick70

hypnos1 said:


> Let's hope you aren't robbed of your quality Elise time for much longer, lol!


 
 Thanks hypnos1.  In IT these things usually come in clusters, so hopefully it is done for a while.  I need to go under the radar for a while like @UntilThen suggested.  I think I need some good Ninja training. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Do you think they let Ninjas wear headphones? LOL!
  
 I am listening this morning.  Oh so sweet!


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I ordered this one in all black, with no markings on the faceplate to match the Elise. It is made in Canada, so thise are Canadian Dollars. Very close to the Hegel price actually.
> 
> Http://]www.thebestamp.com%2FDA_Converters_USB-DACs%2FDA-24_192-Super.php
> 
> ...


 

 WOW!?!?!  These are awesome looking DACs.  You will have to share your thoughts on yours when you get it!  I may have to wait on your impressions before I leap on a Hegel.
  
 I need DSD so I would want this DAC http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/USB-DSD-DAC2.php


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> WOW!?!?!  These are awesome looking DACs.  You will have to share your thoughts on yours when you get it!  I may have to wait on your impressions before I leap on a Hegel.
> 
> I need DSD so I would want this DAC http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/USB-DSD-DAC2.php




I looked at that one. Only usb input. 

Add Coax input option is 480.00.

You could always upgrade mine to DSD for 400.00.


----------



## UntilThen

post #960 Did you see this customised Arioso 2A3 SE by Feliks Audio.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I looked at that one. Only usb input.
> 
> Add Coax input option is 480.00.
> 
> You could always upgrade mine to DSD for 400.00.


 

 That is a really good idea.  I didn't see that upgrade option.  I do like the smaller footprint of your DAC. 
  
 What's the wait time on these?


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> post #960 Did you see this customised Arioso 2A3 SE by Feliks Audio.


 

 UT that is very nice looking.  Are you thinking about getting one?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> UT that is very nice looking.  Are you thinking about getting one?


 

 Not until I feel a need to upgrade Elise .... can't see a need now .... Elise + EL3N + 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G delivers more than I need now with T1....  but 2A3 is getting into serious territory


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Not until I feel a need to upgrade Elise .... can't see a need now .... Elise + EL3N + 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G delivers more than I need now with T1....  but 2A3 is getting into serious territory


 

 The big advantage with the custom Arioso is you can drive your speakers with this too.


----------



## whirlwind

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
> ...


 
 I have sprung for the same adapter that Glenn has bought....now just waiting for tubes and adapter to arrive....should be fun.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> That is a really good idea.  I didn't see that upgrade option.  I do like the smaller footprint of your DAC.
> 
> What's the wait time on these?




Sorry, the dsd is 400.00. Not 480.00

With upgraded usb, I suspect wait time would be 6-8 weeks. He is out of the country right now. He had to go see his Mom.
She is very ill. He will be back in a coupe weeks. I didn't mind as it gives me extra time for saving. The smaller footprint was also an item I liked also.


----------



## jerick70

@UntilThen imagine the PSE with a head phone out.  Dual mono would be glorious with headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> @UntilThen imagine the PSE with a head phone out.  Dual mono would be glorious with headphones.


 

 This with headphone out is enough ....


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> Sorry, the dsd is 400.00. Not 480.00
> 
> With upgraded usb, I suspect wait time would be 6-8 weeks. He is out of the country right now. He had to go see his Mom.
> She is very ill. He will be back in a coupe weeks. I didn't mind as it gives me extra time for saving. The smaller footprint was also an item I liked also.


 

 You're getting me excited @aqsw.  These look like they might have the chops to be the end game DAC.  Of course when a head-fier says "end game" they really don't mean it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The upgrade bug hits and you are done for!!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have sprung for the same adapter that Glenn has bought....now just waiting for tubes and adapter to arrive....should be fun.


 
 Interesting .... let me know how you go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Are you using as driver or power? Using one or two of those adapters?


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I have sprung for the same adapter that Glenn has bought....now just waiting for tubes and adapter to arrive....should be fun.
> ...


 
 I will be using them as drivers and using one adapter


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> This with headphone out is enough ....


 

 I don't know. My experience with dual mono has been WOW.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I will be using them as drivers and using one adapter


 

 Poor me...walking the tight rope with 2 adapters for power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I don't know. My experience with dual mono has been WOW.


 

 Slow down buddy. Wait till you hear the EL3N in Elise...... then let me hear the WOW from you.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Slow down buddy. Wait till you hear the EL3N in Elise...... then let me hear the WOW from you.


 
 LOL.  Yeah I get pretty excited about audio equipment.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I would still keep Elise.  I would just replace my Cronus Magnum with the PSE. Hmmm....... It's something to think about.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> LOL.  Yeah I get pretty excited about audio equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Go for it Jerick and I'll definitely come for your shindig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Meanwhile I'm asking Mrs Xu Ling to send me a PayPal invoice for 2 of these...


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Go for it Jerick and I'll definitely come for your shindig.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are these different EL3N adapters?


----------



## jerick70

Ahhh dual EL3Ns.  Very interesting.  This picture is a little more revealing.....


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Are these different EL3N adapters?


 

 Jerick !!!  YES !!!  Don't try it yet.... it's uncharted waters....sharks infested. UT is swimming out to meet the sharks. I'll let you know if they're friendly or they bite.
  
 Going to try four EL3N as power tubes and two EL3N as driver tubes in Elise.
  
 If it doesn't work, it's

  
 See my 6 tubes?

  
 AQ can try 4 as powers and 4 as drivers LOLOLOLO.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> UT is positively untouchable.


 

 Perhaps we should rename him 'Eliot'?...(Ness!!)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

Oh by the way, @TomNC (and anyone else interested), don't forget the EL3N pentode draws .9A heater current, lol!...as opposed to .6A for the 6SN7...


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Jerick !!!  YES !!!  Don't try it yet.... it's uncharted waters....sharks infested. UT is swimming out to meet the sharks. I'll let you know if they're friendly or they bite.
> 
> Going to try four EL3N as power tubes and two EL3N as driver tubes in Elise.


 

 Hmmmm.  I've missed so much!!!!!  That is daring.  Here you'll need some of this....


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Jerick !!!  YES !!!  Don't try it yet.... it's uncharted waters....sharks infested. UT is swimming out to meet the sharks. I'll let you know if they're friendly or they bite.
> 
> Going to try four EL3N as power tubes and two EL3N as driver tubes in Elise.
> 
> If it doesn't work, it's


 
  
 But then, Eliot, poor @Oskari _*would*_ have to step in your shoes, lol!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Perhaps we should rename him 'Eliot'?...(Ness!!)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ssssssh... his true identity is not to be discussed...


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Ssssssh... his true identity is not to be discussed...


 
 Aaawww....once again, O, you are determined to rob me of my last remaining pleasures!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Oh by the way, @TomNC (and anyone else interested), don't forget the EL3N pentode draws .9A heater current, lol!...as opposed to .6A for the 6SN7...


 
  
 Good point. What's safe in Elise per driver / power output / overall?


----------



## jerick70

hypnos1 said:


> But then, Eliot, poor @Oskari _*would*_ have to step in your shoes, lol!


 
  
 Yes we don't want that happening.  We need to get you a little more protection.  Here's UT turning on the Elise with 8 EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Good point. What's safe in Elise per driver / power output / overall?


 

 I believe 1A per driver, and 2.5A per power/output...not sure if you can "rob Peter to pay Paul"..._*or Mary!!*_


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I believe 1A per driver, and 2.5A per power/output...not sure if you can "rob Peter to pay Paul"..._*or Mary!!*_


 
  
 Thanks! Four EL3Ns as drivers could be bad news then.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Thanks! Four EL3Ns as drivers could be bad news then.




Just use her "Special Octal Saver" or ask her to custom make yours for external heat...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847



.


----------



## Oskari

Nah, I'm not going there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Nah, I'm not going there.




Hear ya, external heat is not convenient...


----------



## pctazhp

Is there something wrong with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I'm using one tube per socket in the Elise, for a grand total of 4 tubes. And, at least so far, no funny looking wires coming out of my marshmallows.
  
 And even with such a mundane and cowardly set up, the music sure is sounding pretty wonderful


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Is there something wrong with me


 
  
 It's not you. It's those other people.


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> It's not you. It's those other people.


----------



## jerick70

oskari said:


> It's not you. It's those other people. :wink_face:




LOL! Especially the ones that require a bomb suit to turn on their Elise....


----------



## pctazhp

jerick70 said:


> LOL! Especially the ones that require a bomb suit to turn on their Elise....


 
 Best laugh I've had all week ))) Even if it is at UT's expense ))))


----------



## jerick70




----------



## UntilThen

I got up from sleep and you're still talking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I N C R E D I B L E


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Meanwhile I'm asking Mrs Xu Ling to send me a PayPal invoice for 2 of these...


 
  
 BTW, does she mail the adapters from China or Hong Kong SAR?
  
 Also, does anybody [in EU] know the TARIC code for the adapters?
  
 (We have eager beavers as customs officials.)


----------



## UntilThen

From Hong Kong.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I got up from sleep and you're still talking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This should keep you from falling back to sleep:


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> LOL! Especially the ones that require a bomb suit to turn on their Elise....






*STAND BACK...WERE SWITCHING IT ON!!!!*


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


untilthen said:


> From Hong Kong.


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> *STAND BACK...WERE SWITCHING IT ON!!!!*


 

 MythBusters Anyone....


----------



## UntilThen

Aww nice music let me listen. Frank, Liza and Sammy...legends.
  
 Miles Davis - yes !


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Thanks! Four EL3Ns as drivers could be bad news then.


 

 Yes I am just going to try 4 EL3N as power tubes...with 2 red ones in front. Should be a nice photoshoot.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You guys have me intrigued with this EL3N tube so I am trying it in my amp just bought this adapter.
> ...


 
 I think you guys can try that dual EL3N adapter to replace the 6AS7s if it will fit. They are power output tubes but not the high current of the 6AS7.
 Filament current will be less this will not heart your amps in any way. Only costly if they sound like crap in 6AS7 position or high distortion.
 It would be neat to have six EL3Ns in your amp.


----------



## TomNC

The Boss’ Dancing in the Park video is amazing. It is the first time I've seen his performance at a younger age. Good times! Thanks for posting.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I think you guys can try that dual EL3N adapter to replace the 6AS7s if it will fit. They are power output tubes but not the high current of the 6AS7.
> Filament current will be less this will not heart your amps in any way. Only costly if they sound like crap in 6AS7 position or high distortion.
> It would be neat to have six EL3Ns in your amp.


 
 YES !!! Thanks Glenn for the added assurance. Even señor Feliks endorsed it unofficially. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok endorse is not the right word... 
  
 I'm eagerly awaiting for the adapters to show up then. Already have the tubes so it's just the cost of the adapters.... and I think Mrs Xu Ling will look after me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I measure Elise power sockets position and I think the 110*60mm adapters will fit.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I think you guys can try that dual EL3N adapter to replace the 6AS7s if it will fit. They are power output tubes but not the high current of the 6AS7.
> ...


 

 The EL3N filament draw is .9 amp or 1.8 for 2 of them this is less then the 2.5 of the 6AS7 so the transformer in the amp
 should run cooler with these tubes.
 No worries trying this.
 Let us know how they sound   If they sound good in your amp they will sound good in mine maybe. Then I will buy 4 more tubes maybe I will anyway.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The EL3N filament draw is .9 amp or 1.8 for 2 of them this is less then the 2.5 of the 6AS7 so the transformer in the amp
> should run cooler with these tubes.
> No worries trying this.
> Let us know how they sound   If they sound good in your amp they will sound good in mine maybe. Then I will buy 4 more tubes maybe I will anyway.


 

 Will do Glenn. Best news I've heard... until I actually hear 6 EL3N in Elise.
  
 I cancelled a previous order for 2 dual-EL3N adapters because I wasn't sure if it would harm Elise but now with your assurance.... I need no protective suit to power on Elise. You hear that @jerick70 and @Oskari ?
  
 p/s I also ordered 2 more single adapters to use EL3N as power tubes.... so 4 EL3N in Elise. Still waiting on the arrival.


----------



## Suuup

Looking forward to your findings UT! You might make me cough up for another 4 EL3N's.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Looking forward to your findings UT! You might make me cough up for another 4 EL3N's.


 

 EL3N stock might be depleted by then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  if _*SIX*_ EL3N sounds good in Elise.
  
 The truth is with EL3N as driver and Svetlana 6H13C as power tubes, Elise is sounding very good now. Has anyone tried this yet besides @puffmtd ?
  
 Wow 'Brothers In Arms' by Dire Straits, volume at 11am on T1. It's haunting and sombre.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I cancelled a previous order for 2 dual-EL3N adapters because I wasn't sure if it would harm Elise but now with your assurance.... I need no protective suit to power on Elise. You hear that @jerick70 and @Oskari ?


 
  
 Just go with *8*.
  


jerick70 said:


>




  
 Live dangerously!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Have not tried the 6H13C, because my long awaited 2nd CHATHAM 6AS7G has just arrived. It's in and plays fine. Seems like these have a higher gain than 6080's or the 5998's? 

Do all CHATHAM 6AS7G's have copper rods?



.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Will do Glenn. Best news I've heard... until I actually hear 6 EL3N in Elise.
> 
> I cancelled a previous order for 2 dual-EL3N adapters because I wasn't sure if it would harm Elise but now with your assurance.... I need no protective suit to power on Elise. You hear that @jerick70 and @Oskari ?
> 
> p/s I also ordered 2 more single adapters to use EL3N as power tubes.... so 4 EL3N in Elise. Still waiting on the arrival.


 

 First, congrats on your 3000th post!!!!!!!  Were you wearing your T1s when your typed the 3000th? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We want to see the 8 EL3Ns.  This would be look pretty cool.  
 By the way, my EL3Ns came in the mail today.  I'm burning them in with my LCD 2.2s right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Very organic sound. I have to turn Elise up to get the same volume.  Is this normal?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> First, congrats on your 3000th post!!!!!!!  Were you wearing your T1s when your typed the 3000th?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes EL3N in triode strapped has less gain so need a bit more volume. In my case just by one more notch...or 1.5 at most.
  
 8 EL3N is a no no. Will destroy Elise. Drivers will not take 4 EL3N in Elise.
  
 Try with both your T1 and LCD2.2 and let us know what you think.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes EL3N in triode strapped has less gain so need a bit more volume. In my case just by one more notch...or 1.5 at most.
> 
> 8 EL3N is a no no. Will destroy Elise. Drivers will not take 4 EL3N in Elise.


 

You could externally heat the 4 EL3N drivers...

Yes, EL3N has less gain that what we have been used to. 

2031 is still hot competition for EL3N - for those who have 2031, you should try it, and compare. 



.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Have not tried the 6H13C, because my long awaited 2nd CHATHAM 6AS7G has just arrived. It's in and plays fine. Seems like these have a higher gain than 6080's or the 5998's?
> 
> Do all CHATHAM 6AS7G's have copper rods?
> 
> ...


 

 Chatham 6AS7G should not have higher gain than 5998.. and yes they all have copper rods.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have been transported....and its 1983:


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g9mhU1mm5P0[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> You could externally heat the 4 EL3N drivers...
> 
> Yes, EL3N has less gain that what we have been used to.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm trying not to use 12V or external heaters again but will still play my FDD20 and 2031 occasionally. Those are special. However EL3N gives me more. Not as upfront but engaging nevertheless. It's how smooth it is transitioning across the whole frequency spectrum. You hear top and bottom equally well, as well as a most lovely midrange.
  
 Spinning some Dire Stratits now and never tire of it. This is music. Pure music.
  
 I'm still using stock power tubes and I'm really digging this music lol.
  
 Listen to this on at least 16/44.1 and it's amazing


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think EL3N is super smooth across FR until you get to the treble. They are a bit anemic there in my system. 

EL3N is great, yes, and definitely engaging.


----------



## jerick70

What is the setup you're running JV?


----------



## UntilThen

How is the EL3N sounding now Jerick? Try with both T1 and LCD2.2? What power tubes are you using?


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> What is the setup you're running JV?




Elise with EL3N drivers and Chatham 6AS7G Powers (Have 5998's and Mullard 6080's and RCA 6AS7G's too).

My source is either one of (3) iPod 160GB Classic's running all ALAC lossless files, or a Sony NWZ-A17 (again all ALAC lossless) all these have special Line Out cords (that bypasses the DAP's amp, gets the signal right after the built-in DAC)...to Elise to DT-990 or Senn HD-580's.

Favourite cans are definitely DT-990.

I don't have a computer near Elise, don't stream or employ a standalone DAC in the Elise signal chain. iPods have the Wolfson DAC and the Sony has a newer chip, but I don't know what it is. The Sony sounds a tiny bit different from the iPods, but just a tad.

I also (or course) have a Turntable at the ready near Miss Elise and have a treasured Vinyl collection of somewhere between 2000 and 2500 LP's.

I am a little different from everyone else, in that I want my music on portable DAP's instead of streaming. In the Summer, I do a lot of camping, like have the music where we do not have *any* internet connection.

Cheers!

PS - also different in that I think I am the only one feeding Elise a line level signal, so my volume is about 1/4 rotation higher than everyone else. I am usually at 12:00 noon or 1pm.


----------



## B-60

Hey UT,how are you,
 Every time I am looking at the Computer power cord that is in your Elise I go...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,I should send you...let me see...
  

 Furutech Alpha FP-alpha3 2 meeter PC.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> How is the EL3N sounding now Jerick? Try with both T1 and LCD2.2? What power tubes are you using?


 
  
 The EL3N seem a little more recessed that the stock tubes.  Like you are sitting on the 10th row of a concert instead of on the 1st.  I think they sound more open and instrument separation is more detailed and distinct.  Over all very nice sounding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think the treble that JV is talking about is due to the more recessed nature of the EL3N.
  
 I took a break to eat dinner.  I've only listened to the LCD 2.2s.  I'll listen with the T1s and PM-3s soon.
  
 I'm using the Chathams for power tubes.  Soon to try stock. 
  
 p.s. This setup reminds me somewhat of my Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 speakers with my Rouge Cronus Magnum II.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> The EL3N seem a little more recessed that the stock tubes.  Like you are sitting on the 10th row of a concert instead of on the 1st.  I think they sound more open and instrument separation in more detailed and distinct.  Over all very nice sounding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Stock drivers doesn't give you 1st row presentation. 6N7G and to a lesser degree FDD20 does that.
  
 EL3N will open up with more hours on it. ~40hours mark it's pretty full on. Chathams are a nice pairing with it.
  
 Omg 'Murder Incorporated' by Bruce Springsteen just came on with my volume at 11.5 ...almost burst my eardrums.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > Looking forward to your findings UT! You might make me cough up for another 4 EL3N's.
> ...


 

 If those dual EL3N adapters don't work to replace the 6AS7s you can try them in the 6SN7 position using 2 EL3Ns will increase the gain.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If those dual EL3N adapters don't work to replace the 6AS7s you can try them in the 6SN7 position using 2 EL3Ns will increase the gain.


 

 Using dual EL3N on Elise driver position is ok? Safe to do that?


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> Elise with EL3N drivers and Chatham 6AS7G Powers (Have 5998's and Mullard 6080's and RCA 6AS7G's too).
> 
> My source is either one of (3) iPod 160GB Classic's running all ALAC lossless files, or a Sony NWZ-A17 (again all ALAC lossless) all these have special Line Out cords (that bypasses the DAP's amp, gets the signal right after the built-in DAC)...to Elise to DT-990 or Senn HD-580's.
> 
> ...


 

 Ahhhh very nice, I'm running the same tubes but from a DAC connected to my PC.  Vinyl is beautiful. Kudos to your collection! 
  
 I understand the want for a DAP.  I did something similar with the Fiio x5 for a while.


----------



## puffmtd

So...I take a nap for a few hours and come back 5 or 6 pages behind and UT is trying to blow up stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> So...I take a nap for a few hours and come back 5 or 6 pages behind and UT is trying to blow up stuff.


 

 While you were sleeping, we discovered subwoofer bass.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> If those dual EL3N adapters don't work to replace the 6AS7s you can try them in the 6SN7 position using 2 EL3Ns will increase the gain.




But will have to be externally heated, right? Driver current in Elise max @ 1.0 amp...


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Stock drivers doesn't give you 1st row presentation. 6N7G and to a lesser degree FDD20 does that.
> 
> EL3N will open up with more hours on it. ~40hours mark it's pretty full on. Chathams are a nice pairing with it.
> 
> Omg 'Murder Incorporated' by Bruce Springsteen just came on with my volume at 11.5 ...almost burst my eardrums.


 
 Cool.  I look forward to listening to the FDD20 and 6N7G.  Still haven't gotten my adapters for the FDD20.
  
 OUCH!!!!!!  Hate when that happens!
  
 Listening with my T1s now.  Most of the advantages that the T1 has over the LCD 2.2 are still there.  Larger sound stage and better treble.  They seem to open up much more.  One thing is different though, there is much more texture with the LCD 2.2s and EL3N.  There seems to be some texture missing in the mid bass region with the T1 that is very apparent with the LCD 2.2.  I can't quit put my finger on it right now.  I didn't notice this with the Tung-Sols


----------



## mordy

Hi Glenn et al,
  
 This is regarding the use of dual EL3N tubes as drivers in the Elise:
  
 I spoke to a friend who is a retired A/V engineer and asked him about this set-up. (Again, I may not understand this topic correctly, but this is what I got out of the conversation:
  
 The Elise uses two drivers wired in series and can use tubes up to 1A. (Renderman used 1.5A tubes as drivers and claimed that nothing untoward happened in two hours of listening; he was monitoring heat build up in the amp.) Using dual tubes would up the voltage requirement to 2 x 6.3V = 12V.
  
 If the the tubes are wired in parallel the voltage would remain the same, but the amp rating would double to 1.8A.
  
 I don't have enough background in this, but I am throwing out these ideas for comments.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Cool.  I look forward to listening to the FDD20 and 6N7G.  Still haven't gotten my adapters for the FDD20.
> 
> OUCH!!!!!!  Hate when that happens!
> 
> Listening with my T1s now.  Most of the advantages that the T1 has over the LCD 2.2 are still there.  Larger sound stage and better treble.  They seem to open up much more.  One thing is different though, there is much more texture with the LCD 2.2s and EL3N.  There seems to be some texture missing in the mid bass region with the T1 that is very apparent with the LCD 2.2.  I can't quit put my finger on it right now.  I didn't notice this with the Tung-Sols


 

 Hold that thought a second Jerick.   
  
 I'm really keen now to hear Glenn's views on using dual EL3N in the 6SN7 positions.


----------



## jerick70

Switched the T1s to my Violectric V200 and the mid-bass is back.  Not as good as the LCD 2.2 but close.  Very strange.  The EL3Ns must need to burn in more?  Don't know......  Will experiment some and see what I find.
  
 FYI... The Violectric sounds very close to the Elise with Chathams and stock Tung-Sols.  I have after market op-amps in the Vio, AD797ANZ and AD823ANZ.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Switched the T1s to my Violectric V200 and the mid-bass is back.  Not as good as the LCD 2.2 but close.  Very strange.  The EL3Ns must need to burn in more?  Don't know......  Will experiment some and see what I find.
> 
> FYI... The Violectric sounds very close to the Elise with Chathams and stock Tung-Sols.  *I have after market op-amps in the Vio, AD797ANZ and AD823ANZ.*


 

 Yup would sure be interesting to get your feedback after ~40 hours on EL3N. Violectric V200 is a capable SS amp and I would expect it to perform right up there.
  
 LCD2.2 will definitely sound more textured ; T1 is more revealing and transparent with a killer soundstage and high end. You have great contrast there and should be very interesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Did that in bold make the Vio V200 a lot warmer?
  
 EL3N bass and everything else will open up after burn in.


----------



## UntilThen

On a fully burned in EL3N with 5998 now using T1. There's no way the Vio V200 will sound like this now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is one dark song I like to chill with


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Yup would sure be interesting to get your feedback after ~40 hours on EL3N. Violectric V200 is a capable SS amp and I would expect it to perform right up there.
> 
> LCD2.2 will definitely sound more textured ; T1 is more revealing and transparent with a killer soundstage and high end. You have great contrast there and should be very interesting.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes I think that is definitely what it is.  The tube gear I've had in the past exhibited similar characteristics.  It sounded better and better with time.
  
 Absolutely agree on the T1 and LCD 2.2.  The mid-bass is incredible on the LCD.
  
 The Vio is tube-like even with the stock op-amps, but the stock op-amps are sloppy sounding.  The AD op-amps clean the entire spectrum up, extend the treble, deepen the base, and agility and speed are increased. They pretty much bring the Vio to a whole new level.  It's a superb SS amp.


----------



## jerick70

@UntilThen or anyone else that has the T1. Have you found a leather ear pad that works well for the T1?


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> @UntilThen or anyone else that has the T1. Have you found a leather ear pad that works well for the T1?


 

 Nope and I think only the original ear pad replacement will do. You'll change the tone with an aftermarket earpad that's for sure.
  
 I'm looking for the original earpad replacement, which I think is the DT990 equivalent, according to Beyer site.
  
 Btw the Gen 2 earpad is different and cannot be used on the T1 G1.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> On a fully burned in EL3N with 5998 now using T1. There's no way the Vio V200 will sound like this now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Ah very nice!  The Boss!!!!!
  
  
 This is what I'm listening to now...


----------



## UntilThen

HE560 just sounds so right with Elise + EL3N + 5998. You have to be here to hear for yourself and LR will do that tomorrow. Such a high end sound.
  
 That Diana Krall song does sound very good.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If those dual EL3N adapters don't work to replace the 6AS7s you can try them in the 6SN7 position using 2 EL3Ns will increase the gain.
> ...


 

 You will be pushing the filament current but you can try it see if it sounds good or not. If it does sound good we can see what to do from there.
 Going a little over current wont heart anything right away it would have to be on for a long time for the transformer to over heat.


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> You will be pushing the filament current but you can try it see if it sounds good or not. If it does sound good we can see what to do from there.
> Going a little over current wont heart anything right away it would have to be on for a long time for the transformer to over heat.


 
 Have you read Mordy's post? Elise drivers are wired in series, so the voltage required should be something like 12.6V and not 6.3V? Would this be true?


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> @UntilThen or anyone else that has the T1. Have you found a leather ear pad that works well for the T1?


 

 Testing commencing... 
  
 These are the leather pads from my 1770.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Testing commencing...
> 
> These are the leather pads from my 1770.


 

 Excellent.  Thank you.  I much prefer leather pads.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> HE560 just sounds so right with Elise + EL3N + 5998. You have to be here to hear for yourself and LR will do that tomorrow. Such a high end sound.
> 
> That Diana Krall song does sound very good.


 

 I miss my HE560 a bit.  I bet they sound great on Elise!


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Excellent.  Thank you.  I much prefer leather pads.


 
 Okay, first impressions with 2x 5998 as powers and 2x ECC31 as drivers. 
  
 This has SLAM. Pretty impressive. However, the positive things stop there. 
 At first I listened to Mark Knopfler (of course). Upper bass is much more pronounced. Sub-bass as well, albeit not as much (still quite a lot). Bass sounds very imprecise. Not something I enjoy. I like the tightness the velour pads give. There is basically no treble at all. It also left me with a feeling of the T1's not having enough space. I previously described them as endless, having an infinite amount of space for all instruments. This is not the case at all anymore. 
  
 So, last time I mentioned the T1 being endless, was when I did my comparison to the 1770. The 1770 felt much more closed (which makes sense), like a training room for musicians. I much preferred this for metal music. I liked the 1770 much better for metal than the T1. So I thought maybe the T1 with leather pads would do well with metal? 
  
 Not the case. The sound is incredibly flat. A lot of the drums are missing. Everything is just a big flat muddy mess. Would not recommend. 
  
  
 I'm giving them another shot though. I will try with 6080 as powers and C3g as drivers now. It might change things.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Okay, first impressions with 2x 5998 as powers and 2x ECC31 as drivers.
> 
> This has SLAM. Pretty impressive. However, the positive things stop there.
> At first I listened to Mark Knopfler (of course). Upper bass is much more pronounced. Sub-bass as well, albeit not as much (still quite a lot). Bass sounds very imprecise. Not something I enjoy. I like the tightness the velour pads give. There is basically no treble at all. It also left me with a feeling of the T1's not having enough space. I previously described them as endless, having an infinite amount of space for all instruments. This is not the case at all anymore.
> ...


 
  
 I appreciate you testing this for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's to bad that they make the T1 sound awful.  Maybe different tubes will make a difference.....


----------



## Suuup

Okay, I've listened to Mullard 6080 as powers and C3g as drivers for 20 minutes now. It's much better than 5998 + ECC31. Still not the best though. The bass is tamed a little more, but still nowhere near as tight as with the velour pads. It is still dominant, somewhat killing the midrange. Treble is better, but I still want more (I've been known to be a bit of a treblehead though, so take this with a grain of salt, I still don't think it's enough though).
  
 To be honest, I had really hoped the 6080 + C3g would save the leather pads, as I'd like to have something to listen to metal with (not that it occurs often, but I sometimes get in the mood). They improved it, but not enough in my opinion. I wouldn't get the 1770 leather pads for the T1. Listening to Old Pigweed by Mark Knopfler, I can barely hear him sing. This haven't been a long test by any stretch of the imaginations, but I feel it's more than enough, as the leather pads are nowhere near as good as the stock velour. 
  
 Would not recommend. 
  
 Next up, the 1770 velour pads!


----------



## mordy

Trying new combinations with the EL3N as drivers - this time it is the Mazda 6N7G tubes which might be made by Visseux in France: (These tubes have the letters MO on them. After ruling out Missouri and Marconi-Osram the working assumption is that they were made by Visseux for the French Air Force - they have a picture of wings on the tube as well.)
  
  




  
  
 At first I thought the bass was a little thin, but after the tubes warmed up it became much better. With these tubes the mid range and timbre are glorious. The bass snap and slam is less than with the Chathams, but not to the extent that you feel that you are missing something. The treble is also a little recessed with less sizzle compared to the Chathams. - Overall it is a light and elegant presentation and very musical. The word refined comes to mind.
  
 With the Chathams it felt as if the entire FR was evenly represented - with the Mazdas it is as if the midrange became more prominent.
  
 All in all very pleasant and listenable and beautiful and very engaging. The volume is lower, and my headphones need a volume setting of 12-13 o'clock compared to 10 o'clock for the Chathams. And NO hum; really. Quiet.
  
 Been listening a while now - this combination is special. I am hearing voices (don't worry - not those voices); I mean that the detail is so great that on some recordings I can hear people talking in the background  - something I did not notice before.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Trying new combinations with the EL3N as drivers - this time it is the Mazda 6N7G tubes which might be made by Visseux in France: (These tubes have the letters MO on them. After ruling out Missouri and Marconi-Osram the working assumption is that they were made by Visseux for the French Air Force - they have a picture of wings on the tube as well.)
> 
> At first I thought the bass was a little thin, but after the tubes warmed up it became much better. With these tubes the mid range and timbre are glorious. The bass snap and slam is less than with the Chathams, but not to the extent that you feel that you are missing something. The treble is also a little recessed with less sizzle compared to the Chathams. - Overall it is a light and elegant presentation and very musical. The word refined comes to mind.
> 
> ...


 
 Who would have known that gives you zero hum but more importantly it's a unique, lovely sound. I use the same tubes but with the Mazda as drivers and EL3N as powers and it's a gorgeous sound.
  
 I've also use the EL3N as drivers and Philco 6N7G as powers a few days ago and remembered that it was quite a lovely sound.
  
 I'm truly gob smack by EL3N at the moment. It seems to be doing incredibly well as both drivers and powers in my experiments.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Okay, I've listened to Mullard 6080 as powers and C3g as drivers for 20 minutes now. It's much better than 5998 + ECC31. Still not the best though. The bass is tamed a little more, but still nowhere near as tight as with the velour pads. It is still dominant, somewhat killing the midrange. Treble is better, but I still want more (I've been known to be a bit of a treblehead though, so take this with a grain of salt, I still don't think it's enough though).
> 
> To be honest, I had really hoped the 6080 + C3g would save the leather pads, as I'd like to have something to listen to metal with (not that it occurs often, but I sometimes get in the mood). They improved it, but not enough in my opinion. I wouldn't get the 1770 leather pads for the T1. Listening to Old Pigweed by Mark Knopfler, I can barely hear him sing. This haven't been a long test by any stretch of the imaginations, but I feel it's more than enough, as the leather pads are nowhere near as good as the stock velour.
> 
> ...


 

 Changing pads will alter the sound of your headphone quite drastically which I think is hard to get tubes to compensate. I bought a cheap HD650 ear pads from China and it really make my HD650 sound like headphones from the 2 dollars shop. 
  
 I'm still trying to track down the T1 original ear pads replacement. Using it as often as I do will surely wear it thin quick.
  
 In any case, let me know how the 1770 velour pads will make your T1 sound.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You will be pushing the filament current but you can try it see if it sounds good or not. If it does sound good we can see what to do from there.
> Going a little over current wont heart anything right away it would have to be on for a long time for the transformer to over heat.


 

 Thanks Glenn. I'll try dual EL3N as powers first as I find that with single EL3N in the drivers seat, my gain is more than ample driving a beyer T1 at 600ohms.
 So my primary test will be using 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 EL3N as power tubes in Elise. 
  
 Elise drivers are wired in series, so would using dual EL3N turn it into 12.6V ?   .....which Elise cannot supply....unless we use external 12V power supply.
  
 Just paid Mrs Xu Ling US$85 for 2 dual EL3N adapters including shipping !!!   This better be B&W Nautilus sound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The current draw is doubled not the voltage.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The current draw is doubled not the voltage.


 

 Ah I see... ok ok.  I can test out as per Glenn's suggestion then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Check to see if it sounds good first of all.
  
 Let's hope it's not another 25 days before those laminated wonders gets here.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> The current draw is doubled not the voltage.


https://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits&ved=0ahUKEwiG94L0k7DKAhWBg3IKHbNEAf4QFghDMAo&usg=AFQjCNHHhhPf7RQ5r0P2aEwAKDn3WSpK3A&sig2=igRKTmwCtwDxeFhQIfuLVg
AS Mordy's friend said, since Elise drivers are wired in series, the current should remain the same.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> https://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits&ved=0ahUKEwiG94L0k7DKAhWBg3IKHbNEAf4QFghDMAo&usg=AFQjCNHHhhPf7RQ5r0P2aEwAKDn3WSpK3A&sig2=igRKTmwCtwDxeFhQIfuLVg
> AS Mordy's friend said, since Elise drivers are wired in series, the current should remain the same.


 

@Oskari do you know the answer to this or shall I toss a coin ???


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I miss my HE560 a bit.  I bet they sound great on Elise!


 

 You have no idea !!!
  
 This combo with HE560 is one of the best sound I've heard ... the other being T1. Now if you send your LCD2.2 to me, I'll give you an opinion.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Glenn et al,
> 
> This is regarding the use of dual EL3N tubes as drivers in the Elise:
> 
> ...


 
  


suuup said:


> Have you read Mordy's post? Elise drivers are wired in series, so the voltage required should be something like 12.6V and not 6.3V? Would this be true?


 
  


untilthen said:


> Elise drivers are wired in series, so would using dual EL3N turn it into 12.6V ?   .....which Elise cannot supply....unless we use external 12V power supply.


 
  


jazzvinyl said:


> The current draw is doubled not the voltage.


 
  


suuup said:


> AS Mordy's friend said, since Elise drivers are wired in series, the current should remain the same.


 
  


untilthen said:


> @Oskari do you know the answer to this or shall I toss a coin ???


 
  
 JV's right. This is a question of how the heaters are wired in the adapter. Since it is a dual EL3N to 6SN7GT adapter, the heaters must be wired in parallel, otherwise it would be a dual EL3N to 12SN7GT adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> JV's right. This is a question of how the heaters are wired in the adapter. Since it is a dual EL3N to 6SN7GT adapter, the heaters must be wired in parallel, otherwise it would be a dual EL3N to 12SN7GT adapter.


 
 Ho K,,, thank you. That means, as Glenn suggested I can also try dual EL3N as drivers besides trying them as powers but I won't go with 
  
 4 drivers and 4 powers .... too rich for my blood. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So 2 drivers + 4 powers 
 and 
      4 drivers  + 2 powers


----------



## UntilThen

After some work in the garden, showered and settle down for a listen with my HD650 and Elise + EL3N + 5998.
  
 Ah..... life's good, too good with sound this good. I'm melting with the most melodious female vocals. I have never heard HD650 sound so good and this is stock without modification. You don't need to modify HD650 with this amp and tubes. Just fire it away as Sennheiser intended with the glorious sound of sparkling tubes. What veil? Whoever say that HD650 is veil should listen to this. Crank up volume to 10am and the heavens open and light descended. At 11am, it's Smoke on the Water. Please don't even think of turning the volume knob to 12noon with HD650.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Have not tried the 6H13C, because my long awaited 2nd CHATHAM 6AS7G has just arrived. It's in and plays fine. Seems like these have a higher gain than 6080's or the 5998's?
> 
> Do all CHATHAM 6AS7G's have copper rods?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...have a feeling the Chathams _might  _just have slightly higher transconductance...(but don't quote me on it, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And yea on the copper rods...
  


oskari said:


> JV's right. This is a question of how the heaters are wired in the adapter. Since it is a dual* EL3N to 6SN7GT *adapter, the heaters must be wired in parallel, otherwise it would be a dual *EL3N to 12SN7GT* adapter.


 
  
 Thanks for pointing this out, O - that's the giveaway, lol!


untilthen said:


> Ho K,,, thank you. That means, as Glenn suggested I can also try dual EL3N as drivers besides trying them as powers but I won't go with
> 
> 4 drivers and 4 powers .... too rich for my blood.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...must admit I've been getting a bit nervy with this talk of 4x EL3Ns as drivers...*3.6A* just for the drivers?!...*check with Lukasz!!!* 





    CHEERS!....


----------



## UntilThen

For Lukasz before I ask him any more questions. Change song.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> For Lukasz before I ask him any more questions. Change song.




  
 More like a "*Wing*" and a prayer, I'd say, UT!!


----------



## Oskari

This is such a peaceful place today.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> This is such a peaceful place today.


 
 Until UT wakes up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Single and dual EL3N adapters are just send out by Mrs Xu Ling. Unfortunately for non US it's 10 to 25 business days delivery.
  
 And today I'll be picking LR. So I'll get to sample the Geek and hear his HD600 again...well I heard the HD600 at the shop last year but for a short while. Bought the HD650 instead. Plus he has brought one Mazda and one Visseaux 6N7G which hums in his setup to test on mine.
  
 Matsuri by Kitaro is more exciting.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV...have a feeling the Chathams _might  _just have slightly higher transconductance...(but don't quote me on it, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Back in 2009, this is what Skylap has to say about the Chatham 6AS7G.......5998 as having higher transconductance.
  
post #17
  
 Official data on Chatham 6AS7G - 7000 transconductance.
 http://www.tiffe.de/roehren/6as7g.pdf
  
 Tung Sol 6080WA - 7000 transconductance
 http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6080WA.pdf
  
 Tung Sol 7236 - 12500 transconductance
 http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/7/7236.pdf
  
 Tung Sol 5998 data spec - 14000 transconductance
 http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/5998_TS.PDF


----------



## JazzVinyl

Gotcha on the 5998/CHATHAM 6AS7G Transconductance. Amplification factor *2* for CHATHAM 6AS7 and *5.5* for 5998! The 5998's should sound almost *3* times louder than CHATHAM!! 

Opposite is true in my rig!

Sure am *enjoying* them!

Enjoy meeting up with LR, I sure there will be posts and photos, to come 




.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Gotcha on the 5998/CHATHAM 6AS7G Transconductance.
> 
> They seem louder than 5998 on my rig, and sure am enjoying them!
> 
> Enjoy meeting up with LR, I sure there will be posts and photos, to come


 

 Glad you love the Chatham 6AS7G. It sure sounds better than other 6AS7G except the GEC which I've not heard.
  
 As for LR... we have very hot weather 41 degrees for 2 days but on the day LR arrived, there was a thunderstorm and rain so heavy it's flooded !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Good for indoor activity then!!

Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Good for indoor activity then!!
> 
> Enjoy!


 

 One day to listen to Humphrey and then I'll show the desert guy the beaches !!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Gotcha on the 5998/CHATHAM 6AS7G Transconductance. Amplification factor *2* for CHATHAM 6AS7 and *5.5* for 5998! The 5998's should sound almost *3* times louder than CHATHAM!!
> 
> Opposite is true in my rig!
> .


 
 LOL.
  
 5998 is definitely louder in my rig. Been running EL3N and 5998 since yesterday. This is indeed my BENCHMARK. It does sound really good.
  
 You hear that @puffmtd ?  Is your EL3N and 5998 still humming? Tell me exactly what the problem is. Does it hum at all with C3G and 5998? We need to establish if you have a faulty pair of 5998. If so, we know what to do....
  
 Better still test it with stock drivers Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and 5998. Play it at all volume. Also test all stock tubes - play at all volume.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...must admit I've been getting a bit nervy with this talk of 4x EL3Ns as drivers...*3.6A* just for the drivers?!...*check with Lukasz!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is this too much for the drivers? 
  
 Obi Wan Kenobi told me... The total heater current of all tubes cannot exceed the current that a power transformer can supply
  
 So I'll go back to Lukasz and ask the question. 
  
@Lorspeaker do you think my Elise's warranty is still valid with all these questions asked to Lukasz? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BUT what doesn't breaks down doesn't need warranty.


----------



## UntilThen

I love this song by Sarah. I've been listening to her songs for the last 2 hours. !!!


----------



## mordy

More excursions into the EL3N candy store - no, make it ice cream store. Seems that the EL3N lends it's flavor to all the power tubes. Everything so far is tasty, creamy & delicious. So far I tried Mullard 6080, Chatham 6AS7G and Mazda 6N7G.  Strawberry, Mint/Pistachio, and Chocolate Fudge?
  
 Today it is 6BL7.
  
 Do you know what a side car is (think motorcycle)?
  




  
 This guy obviously likes Coke bottle ST tubes lol.
  
 Anyhow, this newly acquired RCA 6BL7 tube has a side getter.
  




  
 The tubes were manufactured in 1964.
  




  
 Here is a close-up of the side getter (more exciting than the motorcycle side car, eh?)
 You can see the rectangular getter and the oval getter flash on the glass. Why side getters? Don't know, but they are not very common. It does make for a very compact tube, and these tubes are shorter than the other 6BL7 tubes I have.
  
 There is only some hum at unlistenable levels with headphones and speakers, so basically humpfrey. The headphones only need a volume of 10 o'clock before it gets too loud.
  
 Seems that first impression don't count with the EL3N combinations - need a good 1/2 hour warm up before the tubes sound right.
  
 So how does it sound? Very neutral with an expansive sound stage. Make this plain Vanilla. I think I prefer  Strawberry, Mint, and Chocolate Fudge. However, it could be that these $1.20 tubes (including shipping) are new and need burn in. I think that I can detect some chocolate chips in the vanilla, the treble starts to sizzle and the bass is firming up......The jury is still out.....
  
  
 Cannot resist adding these pictures that give a new meaning to a portable drum set:
  




  




  
 How about a beer?
  




  
  
 Sorry, got off on a tangent - here is a 6BL7 action picture:
  




  
 Have fun!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Sorry, got off on a tangent - here is a 6BL7 action picture:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Mordy, 6BL7 as powers? Do you still have to externally heat them, when used as powers?




.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Your warranty is set aside....
U are conscripted into the Lucasz design team


----------



## Suuup

Tried the 1770 velour pads on my T1 with 6080 as powers and C3g as drivers. The short answer is that it's better than the leather pads, but still nowhere near great. The T1 velour pads are WAY better, there's really no contest. 
  
@UntilThen When will LR be there? We want updates!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Tried the 1770 velour pads on my T1 with 6080 as powers and C3g as drivers. The short answer is that it's better than the leather pads, but still nowhere near great. The T1 velour pads are WAY better, there's really no contest.
> 
> @UntilThen
> When will LR be there? We want updates!




Hello Suuup...

The T1 has comfort issues?

Comfy is one the major draws for me with the DT-990's...super comfy with the Velour pads...

Running 2031/Chatham 6AS7G, surprised at how much more I like the treble with this (or the C3g's) than EL3N as drivers.



.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup...
> 
> The T1 have comfort issues?
> 
> ...


 
 The T1 does not have any comfort issues at all! They're almost as comfortable as the 990. They're just a tad bit heavier, and a bit more loose. I'm trying different pads because @jerick70 asked about leather pads on the T1, and I had a pair laying around (from my 1770). They're not great with the T1 though, neither the leather nor the velour. Stock T1 pads are great though.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Back in 2009, this is what Skylap has to say about the Chatham 6AS7G.......5998 as having higher transconductance.
> 
> post #17
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for clarifying, UT. So the Chatham 6AS7G is obviously the same gm as standard...must be something else going on to make it so special, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 The 5998 certainly is a very different animal spec-wise, and does seem to occasionally bring variable results...usually, it appears settings need to be different in an amp to gain optimum performance from this tube. As usual, UT, you seem to be hitting the jackpot, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 From my scouring different threads, it seems we also need to be careful of 'less-than-perfect' 5998s out there, so an element of luck apparently comes into play here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Is this too much for the drivers?
> 
> Obi Wan Kenobi told me... The total heater current of all tubes cannot exceed the current that a power transformer can supply
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fear not, mon ami, I have asked Lukasz *all sorts* of questions over this past year, and I think (nay _hope!_) my warranty is still intact, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and I have posed the _theoretical _use of 2x EL3Ns per driver...but I think we can be fairly sure of the answer!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 No midnight listening sessions tonight, alas....bad cold...not fair!...but have a great time playing host and tour guide...


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Tried the 1770 velour pads on my T1 with 6080 as powers and C3g as drivers. The short answer is that it's better than the leather pads, but still nowhere near great. The T1 velour pads are WAY better, there's really no contest.
> 
> @UntilThen When will LR be there? We want updates!


 

 As soon as I finish my coffee, I'll be picking up Prince Abubu at the hotel.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The T1 has comfort issues?


 
 Nay. T1 is one of the most comfortable headphones on the planet.. make it the Galaxy.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Fear not, mon ami, I have asked Lukasz *all sorts* of questions over this past year, and I think (nay _hope!_) my warranty is still intact, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I know I was joking. Lukasz is such a good natured guy it's always a joy to talk to him. I would really love to meet him and his Dad.
  
 I think if I can get 2 EL3N drivers / 4 EL3N powers going and it sounded good...then it's truly end game. I think that will be a high end speaker in your head sound (or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So the anguished wait for the adapters begins again. 
  
 Get well soon !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... while I treat LR to sonic delight without lightning rods.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Running 2031/Chatham 6AS7G, surprised at how much more I like the treble with this (or the C3g's) than EL3N as drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey JV, have you come a full circle and be enamoured with 2031 again. Well these things happen with Elise. Which is why I roll tubes everyday. If you stick to a single combo, your ears get too accustomed that a change bring on something new. Which is what's happening here. That said, each time I get back to EL3N as drivers and 5998 or Chatham as powers, that's when I'm most happy.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Hey JV, have you come a full circle and be enamoured with 2031 again. Well these things happen with Elise. Which is why I roll tubes everyday. If you stick to a single combo, your ears get too accustomed that a change bring on something new. Which is what's happening here. That said, each time I get back to EL3N as drivers and 5998 or Chatham as powers, that's when I'm most happy.


 
  
 Final, final before bed...(honest!)...must say I have to agree with you there, UT!


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I'm off to pick up LR.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yes I know I was joking. Lukasz is such a good natured guy it's always a joy to talk to him. I would really love to meet him and his Dad.
> 
> I think if I can get 2 EL3N drivers / 4 EL3N powers going and it sounded good...then it's truly *end game*. I think that will be a high end speaker in your head sound (or not
> 
> ...


 
 "UntilThen" and "end game"???? DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE!
  
 Say hello to His Highness )))


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Final, final before bed...(honest!)...must say I have to agree with you there, UT!




Not surprised you both think EL3N is end game. They are great tubes!

I like 2031 best, as has way more sparkle and excitement.

Cheers to us, the LUCKY ONES!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is one for LR and his world travelin' journey:



Cheers! Hope the travel was easy, LR!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I think if I can get 2 EL3N drivers / 4 EL3N powers going and it sounded good...then it's truly end game. I think that will be a high end speaker in your head sound (or not :bigsmile_face: ). So the anguished wait for the adapters begins again.




That would *look* awesome! Hope six EL3N's, restores the 'missing' treble  

and...
Feel better, H1..!



​


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 You are right - I do not need an external power source for the back seat 6BL7 as power tubes. Had the 6BL7 sitting in the external sockets so I just plugged them in.
 Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
  
 The benefit of this serendipitous error is that I could confirm that my adapter contraption does not add any hum; using the 6BL7 tubes with or without the adapters results in the same faint hum that does not effect my headphone or speaker listening levels.
  
 Meanwhile the RCA 6BL7 have opened up with much better bass and treble - maybe a real contender for pairing with the EL3N tubes?
  
 Since I had the the amp cooled off and the tubes out I decided to try some of the other tubes I just got. Plugged in a GE + an other GE I had from before.
  
 This "new" GE surely is used - the bass and treble are up to the level of the other burned in GE tube. Here is a rare behind the scenes picture of this combo:
  




  
 Seeing the pompous looking EL3N tubes and the little 6BL7 tubes reminds me of this:
  




  
 Laurel and Hardy - just joking....
  
 Anyhow, let's be serious. _This sound is great - make it Cherry ice cream with chocolate chips. Do we have a mini Chatham at a fraction of the price? _Fat, satisfying bass, clarity, sizzle, w i d e sound stage. Could it have something to do with my EL3Ns passing the 33 hour mark?
  
 Since you have a pair of Tung Sol 6BL7 , would you mind to give your impressions of this combo?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> You are right - I do not need an external power source for the back seat 6BL7 as power tubes. Had the 6BL7 sitting in the external sockets so I just plugged them in.
> Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
> ...




Hello Mordy...sure, I will pop in the EL3N (which I think are great, except for the treble) and 6BL7's as powers.

Cheers


----------



## mordy

Do your 6BL7 have at least 30 hours on them? They need time to blossom.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy





mordy said:


> Do your 6BL7 have at least 30 hours on them? They need time to blossom.




Hello Mordy...I think they have 30 on 'em...if not, pretty close.

I have to say, I *like* this combo!

I think the 6BL7's make great power tubes, and happy that no external heater juice is required as well.

Hearing very teensy details. I still think EL3N's need help in the treble area but boy do they ever have outstanding performance in bass and midrange.

Bass has a nice growl via 6BL7. I will let these run awhile, then compare, switching to Chatham 6AS7G as powers.

Nice find here, Mordy!

Also..
Do you have '2031' to try with 6BL7 as powers?

Cheers!



.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Glad you like this combo! Sometimes when you have an opinion that nobody shares or knows about you tend to doubt yourself...
  
 Listening to my Yamaha headphones which accentuate the bass and have less of sizzle in the treble in my system, I can understand when you say that the EL3N tubes need more help in the treble.
  
 However, playing through my speakers the same combo has so much treble that I have to tone it down. Them cymbals give of mighty splashes with the EL3N and 6BL7 tubes!
  
 I have the 20/31 combo, so I will try it later. However, I got better results in the past (with the more standard power tubes) using FDD20/6BL7. However, you need both an external power source and a balance control for this combination of driver tubes.
  
 Don't know how it will work with three 6BL7 tubes.... My gut feeling is that in this case the 20/31 will sound better.
  
 The only other person I know that has tried the the 6BL7 tubes is nephilim, but he is still waiting for his EL3N adapters. Renderman also described using the 6BL7 as driver tubes without using an external power source, but I would be afraid to try it long term since these tubes draw 1.5A.
  
 Another benefit using the 6BL7 is that the amp runs very cool (although the tubes themselves run very hot).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Get your getter goin'


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> However, playing through my speakers the same combo has so much treble that I have to tone it down. Them cymbals give of mighty splashes with the EL3N and 6BL7 tubes!
> 
> I have the 20/31 combo, so I will try it later. However, I got better results in the past (with the more standard power tubes) using FDD20/6BL7. However, you need both an external power source and a balance control for this combination of driver tubes.
> ...




Hello Mordy, 

Man your right about running cool. I just reached over and touched the deck and was very surprised...it was very nice and cool. Heat has plagued my amp since day one, this is welcomed. 

As you might recall, I did try 6BL7 as drivers but low gain didn't not make the DT-990 very happy. Used as powers is much more appproiate, given their gain factor. 

Also regarding EL3N and treble...playing though my speakers, I have to turn treble almost all the way to max, with 5998 or 6AS7G and 6080 powers. I have it set to +2 with 6BL7 as powers, which is much better. So, looks like EL3N and 6BL7 indeed love one another. 

Very nice, Mordy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mellow mood:



[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vXZQPwFm9Ds [/VIDEO]


----------



## mordy

Hi folks, I hope you want to try out the plug and play 6BL7 tubes as powers - there are around 350 offers on eBay for these tubes. Don't know yet which brand or variant works the best with the EL3N - we have to figure it out.
  
 RCA, Sylvania, GE, Westinghouse and Tung Sol are among the brands. Plenty of re-branded tubes. Not only re-branded names like Automatic Radio, Sonotone and Marantz TV, but RCA and GE labeled tubes made by Sylvania. Then there are early flat plate and cross plate tubes. Short, medium and tall glass envelopes. Side getter and top getter. Rectangular and circular getters. And for sure stuff that I don't know about...
  
 Is an EL 3 N and 6BL 7 a perfect 10?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Testifying for Mordy's beloved 6BL7's..

Mine are Tung-Sol (or so labeled) 6BL7's - both for about $7.00 shipped..

And they do work well as powers behind the 'mighty' EL3N's. Looks funny, but sounds dandy!

No adapter or external heating needed, when used as a power tube in Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Quite a revelation listening to LR's HD600 with EL3N + 5998. This headphone is nice and clear and I was very surprised by the bass with Hotel California. Without T1's spaciousness of course and not as revealing but it's a gorgeous sound. Definitely linear compared to HD650.
  
 Ok I won't start a headphone war. To each their own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bottom line is they all sound good with a good tube amp.
  
 p/s LR look like a Bollywood actor and that's a compliment.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Quite a revelation listening to LR's HD600 with EL3N + 5998. This headphone is nice and clear and I was very surprised by the bass with Hotel California. Without T1's spaciousness of course and not as revealing but it's a gorgeous sound. Definitely linear compared to HD650.
> 
> Ok I won't start a headphone war. To each their own.   Bottom line is they all sound good with a good tube amp.
> 
> p/s LR look like a Bollywood actor and that's a compliment.



LOL, now we want pictures of the Bollywood actor! 

Good to hear about the HD600. LR is a lucky guy to have them!


----------



## UntilThen

Here


----------



## JazzVinyl

Pretty groovy that you two could get together, face to face. 

Listening to a blast from my past...Emmerson Lake and Palmer, the Trilogy album...

Cheers..


----------



## puffmtd

mordy said:


> Hi folks, I hope you want to try out the plug and play 6BL7 tubes as powers - there are around 350 offers on eBay for these tubes. Don't know yet which brand or variant works the best with the EL3N - we have to figure it out.
> 
> RCA, Sylvania, GE, Westinghouse and Tung Sol are among the brands. Plenty of re-branded tubes. Not only re-branded names like Automatic Radio, Sonotone and Marantz TV, but RCA and GE labeled tubes made by Sylvania. Then there are early flat plate and cross plate tubes. Short, medium and tall glass envelopes. Side getter and top getter. Rectangular and circular getters. And for sure stuff that I don't know about...
> 
> Is an EL 3 N and 6BL 7 a perfect 10?


 

 Ordered and now just have to wait for them to get here.  Thanks Mordy!


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Quite a revelation listening to LR's HD600 with EL3N + 5998. This headphone is nice and clear and I was very surprised by the bass with Hotel California. Without T1's spaciousness of course and not as revealing but it's a gorgeous sound. Definitely linear compared to HD650.
> 
> Ok I won't start a headphone war. To each their own.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds great UT.  I'm along the same lines right now but it's the HD650 with the same tubes...........kinda.
 EL3N's as powers and 5998 as a driver.  No hiss.....black background and wonderful music.


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Sounds great UT.  I'm along the same lines right now but it's the HD650 with the same tubes...........kinda.
> EL3N's as powers and 5998 as a driver.  No hiss.....black background and wonderful music.


 


@puffmtd  are you sure you can use *5998 as drivers* and EL3N as powers !!!! I wouldn't if I were you.


----------



## UntilThen

'Brothers In Arms' on DSD 64 ...amazing... never heard it like this before... with T1 and Elise + EL3N + 5998
  
 ..and Geek.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> @puffmtd  are you sure you can use *5998 as drivers* and EL3N as powers !!!! I wouldn't if I were you.


 

 I don't know if I can or not safely. There is no heat, the deck and whole of the amp is cool to the touch and the sound is really, really nice.  I think I will go ahead and change the setup if you think it will damage something.  That's part of the beauty or curse of not really knowing what I'm doing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Man this sounds good.
 Edited for reading comprehension


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to Dire Straits album on DSD 64 now ... mistake... I want to get the Geek now. Sigh !!!


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> I don't know if I can or not safely. There is no heat, the deck and whole of the amp is cool to the touch and the sound is really, really nice.  I think I will go ahead and change the setup if you think it will damage something.  That's part of the beauty or curse of not really knowing what I'm doing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Puff, no one has use power tubes as drivers before and I really don't know what issues there might be but I don't think it's meant to be that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 especially with an electrically different 5998. Let's hear it from the experts.


----------



## JazzVinyl

puffmtd said:


> I don't know if I can or not safely. There is no heat, the deck and whole of the amp is cool to the touch and the sound is really, really nice.  I think I will go ahead and change the setup if you think it will damage something.  That's part of the beauty or curse of not really knowing what I'm doing. .  Man this sounds good.
> Edited for reading comprehension




Drivers are in front, powers in back near the box that has the Transformer in it...

Definiteltly, the 5998's should not be used as drivers as they want 2.5 amps of current and the driver slots are designed for 1.0 amp current draw max.

Elise power slots designed for 2.5 amp current draw. 

Saw you ordered the 6BL7's....only use these as powers. Can use them as drivers but you need to use a special adapter that does not use Elise power. You supply the heat voltage externally from a separate power supply. 

Again...6BL7 in power positions AOK, no use as drivers unless using special adapters. 

Hey Hey My My...Rust (And UT) Never Sleeps, playing now


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 This is a head-fi get together in Sydney. I am the one on the left obviously. Thanks to UT for a lovely Indian lunch, and driving us around Sydney, I am glad to see him with my wife. Very grateful to him for his hospitality, we are going sight seeing next day.
  
 Today I listened to the famous T1, HE560 and HD650 for the first time, and it was such a nice surprise. T1 had the spaciousness of a concert hall, HE560 had the hard hitting bass, and HD650 topped the bass point among all HPs.
  
 Then I tried hard to listen to the humfree sound to pick up noise or hum, believe me I couldn't pick any with HE560, with T1 with all the way up I could hear the TV that was across the room, and same thing with the HD600, Elise is that sensitive. This is truly humfree sound, even quieter than mine, OMG. UT is true when he talks about humfree.
  
 Now he is listening to GEEK Pulse SFi with Femto Clocks and DSD and he believe me for what I say about my DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
 I am going to next test the Mazda and Visseaux tubes.
  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones


----------



## mordy

Hi puffmtd,
  
 As far as I know, the driver tubes are rated for maximum 1A, and the power tubes for 2,5A. Conventional wisdom is that using a tube that draws 2.5A in a 1A socket will damage the amp.


----------



## puffmtd

jazzvinyl said:


> Drivers are in front, powers in back near the box that has the Transformer in it...
> 
> Definiteltly, the 5998's should not be used as drivers as they want 2.5 amps of current and the driver slots are designed for 1.0 amp current draw max.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Jazz, UT and Mordy  I definitely don't want to damage anything.  The 5998's are safely back in their box.  (it sure did sound sweet though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## JazzVinyl

puffmtd said:


> Thanks Jazz, UT and Mordy  I definitely don't want to damage anything.  The 5998's are safely back in their box.  (it sure did sound sweet though  )




You CAN use them as drivers, if you order a special adapter and supply the heater elements with power from a separate power supply that can deliver the 2.5 amps of current to each socket (5 amps total)

Here is a picture of 12 volt tubes I am heating via an external supply:




And here is the external power supply:


----------



## puffmtd

jazzvinyl said:


> You CAN use them as drivers, if you order a special adapter and supply the heater elements with power from a separate power supply that can deliver the 2.5 amps of current to each socket (5 amps total)
> 
> Here is a picture of 12 volt tubes I am heating via an external supply:
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you sir.  I was wondering what the wired adapters were for.  I'll start looking into these and a power supply.


----------



## JazzVinyl

puffmtd said:


> Thank you sir.  I was wondering what the wired adapters were for.  I'll start looking into these and a power supply.




You need two of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847

And a laptop style power supply that uses a three prong (grounded plug).


----------



## JazzVinyl

Time for bed...talk more about the power supply tomorrow...


----------



## UntilThen

LR's Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G that hums in his setup back home is quiet on mine. Spanish Harlem on DSD 64 with Mazda 6N7G and stock power tubes sounds amazing now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> LR's Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G that hums in his setup back home is quite on mine. Spanish Harlem on DSD 64 with Mazda 6N7G and stock power tubes sounds amazing now.




UT's next assignment...to clone his ultra quiet NO HUM EVER amp :rolleyes:


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> UT's next assignment...to clone his ultra quiet NO HUM EVER amp


 

 All you have to do is to move to Australia with Elise and it will be hum free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 LR can't believe how quiet my Elise is...says it's like an ss amp quietness.
  
 I'm still willing to sell it to @Lorspeaker for a discounted price of $2888.


----------



## pctazhp

A couple of hours ago I was ready to go to bed, but thought I pop in my pair of GE 6AS7GAs  power tubes for the first time and listen to a couple of songs before bed. It's 2 hours later and I can't stop. I really think the GEs might be my favorite power tube so far. Others that I have tried are 5998s, Tungsol 7236, and Mullard 6080s. They all sound great with the EL3Ns in the driver's seat. I'm sure I won't get much support for this initial conclusion, but I really think the GEs are my favorite so far and the least favorite being the Mullards.
  
 The GEs are right up to the edge where the infamous treble spike of the HD700s starts to irritate a little. But they are very clean and clear. Everything I listen to just seems right and involving. So involving in fact I'm up way past my intended bedtime.
  
 But I've got a long way to go. Haven't even started through my different driver tubes. And on the power end I still need to try my pair of 6520s.
  
 Great that LR and UT have hooked up. H1: hope you feel much better in the morning.
  
 PS. Sorry, I guess I just showed how old and out of touch I really am. I didn't really mean to accuse LR and UT of "hooking up" )))))


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp your conclusion is correct. GE 6AS7GA is an absolute steal of a buy. IMO all 4 power tubes sound great with EL3N..in fact the stock power tube sounded good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 EL3N with Elise and various combination continues to surprise.
  
 It's great to finally see LR and his beautiful wife. We had a great short afternoon together with music on Elise. It's time to show them around now and tomorrow will head for the Blue Mountains.
  
 Cheers and happy listening.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Does the fact that the Elise has the tubes in series make having matched tubes completely unnecessary?


----------



## Suuup

perfectanalog said:


> Does the fact that the Elise has the tubes in series make having matched tubes completely unnecessary?


 
 I've been thinking the same actually. I talked to an AV guy, but he couldn't tell. I don't think so though. If I tap the right driver/power, I only hear it on the right channel, same for left. 
  
  
 Also, I forgot to turn of my Elise when I went to sleep last night. Luckily, I woke up after 2 hours and couldn't sleep anymore, so she wasn't left alone for too long. Got a real scare when I noticed..


----------



## UntilThen

Tomorrow I will get to hear what 4 EL3N will sound like in Elise. LR brought his 2 white EL3N adapters except he did not bring it along for today's session. 
  
 I was impressed by DSD 64 and to a lesser degree HD600. Did sound very nice that headphone. Must be bargain in the head-fi world atm. 
  
 For the first time today, I realise how microscopic the T1 is. With no music playing and volume at 3pm, the headphone pick up the TV sound in the lounge from the study we were in. Which is really weird.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Tomorrow I will get to hear what 4 EL3N will sound like in Elise. LR brought his 2 white EL3N adapters except he did not bring it along for today's session.
> 
> I was impressed by DSD 64 and to a lesser degree HD600. Did sound very nice that headphone. Must be bargain in the head-fi world atm.
> 
> For the first time today, I realise how microscopic the T1 is. With no music playing and volume at 3pm, the headphone pick up the TV sound in the lounge from the study we were in. Which is really weird.


 
 How did it pick up the TV? EMI? Vibrations?
  
 Maybe there's a difference with T1. If you have time, roll in your 6N7G Visseaux and keep your phone next to your tubes while loading a webpage. Also, WiFi vs cellular makes a difference. I can pick up noise from my phone with both WiFi and cellular, although the noise is different and much more noticeable with cellular. It's not a humming noise though. The location of your phone relative to the tubes makes a difference also. I don't get noise from all sides. 
  
 Oh, and you're lucky you get to listen to the Geek. I'd love to try it out. 
  
 Cheers, and have a happy time together you two!
  
 Ps. Are you the first Elise-owners to actually meet?


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> Thank you sir.  I was wondering what the wired adapters were for.  I'll start looking into these and a power supply.


 

 You don't need to use external power supply now. Not when you can get sound much better with EL3N as drivers and economical power tubes such as GE 6AS7GA. Anymore AC feed will just get you more hum likely, especially if you're unsure how to hook up ground wire.
  
 My suggestion is to stick to simple and good sound.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> How did it pick up the TV? EMI? Vibrations?
> 
> _Maybe there's a difference with T1. If you have time, roll in your 6N7G Visseaux and keep your phone next to your tubes while loading a webpage. Also, WiFi vs cellular makes a difference. I can pick up noise from my phone with both WiFi and cellular, although the noise is different and much more noticeable with cellular. It's not a humming noise though. The location of your phone relative to the tubes makes a difference also. I don't get noise from all sides. _
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Suuuup, I don't know how it pick up the TV sound ... it's weird. Not sure if it's the T1 or just Elise that is microscopic...
  
 That in italics is what we talk about before which I have tested extensively. I get no feedback with a mobile phone surfing webpage and I position it all over the tubes, front, back, sides, etc. No distortion or hum or interference.
  
 No I'm pretty sure I've met you before.


----------



## Fervent

Hello everybody
  
 First time poster, long time lurker.
  
 I just recently got into the whole headphone/audiophile hobby when I bought the HD650 and an ASUS Xonar Essence soundcard.
 The basic plan was just to enchance my music listening experience and I do love the new sound of my music catalogue, but after having dug a bit deeper in forums and reviews I realized that I wanted a dedicated amp to get the most out of my headphones (I will probably upgrade to an external DAC at some point aswell).
  
 And now, several days of research later, I just placed an order for the Elise. As this is my first ever dedicated headphone amp there's a bit of conflicted feelings about it. The rational side of my brain is nagging me with attempts at instilling buyers remorse,  it being alot of money to invest in an inanimate, power amplifying object. Also the possibility of spiraling into a tube-rolling addiction .
 On the other hand the artistic and emotional side of my brain is excited like a kid on christmas eve about the prospect of experiencing an even more enhanced listening experience in my little man-cave-corner of our apartment. This whole tube amp genre had me hooked since I first heard about it.
 The plan is to stick with the stock tubes for some time and give them time to burn in and then go for the EL3N, mullard 6080 combination as a first upgrade.
  
 As a reference some of my (current) favorite artists/bands are Blind Melon, CHVRCHES, Feist, Kyuss, Mogwai, The Smiths, Thin Lizzy. Well it's a bit of a mix, but I digress. I just wanted to thank the contributors of this thread for sharing your experiences with the Elise and the different tube options. It has been very informative for a newbie like myself.
 Also if you have any tips for good RCA cables to compliment the Elise that would be of great help for me! (Preferrably in the 1-80$ span)
  
 Thanks


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Hi Suuuup, I don't know how it pick up the TV sound ... it's weird. Not sure if it's the T1 or just Elise that is microscopic...
> 
> That in italics is what we talk about before which I have tested extensively. I get no feedback with a mobile phone surfing webpage and I position it all over the tubes, front, back, sides, etc. No distortion or hum or interference.
> 
> No I'm pretty sure I've met you before.


 
 Do you pick up interference with other headphones? That's why I thought something might be different, now that you have the T1. 
  
 What does the noise from the TV sound like?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Do you pick up interference with other headphones? That's why I thought something might be different, now that you have the T1.
> 
> What does the noise from the TV sound like?


 

 Didn't have time to test with the other headphones but I will.
  
 It's not noise from the TV. It's the movie sound from the TV that was on. Had the door closed to make sure we were not hearing from the TV sound creeping into the study. It was not. Both LR and I heard it at 3pm with no music playing on Elise with EL3N and 5998. Had me scratching my head. Next I might hear whispers from Mars....


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Didn't have time to test with the other headphones but I will.
> 
> It's not noise from the TV. It's the movie sound from the TV that was on. Had the door closed to make sure we were not hearing from the TV sound creeping into the study. It was not. Both LR and I heard it at 3pm with no music playing on Elise with EL3N and 5998. Had me scratching my head. Next I might hear whispers from Mars....


 
 So you can actually hear, what is being said on the TV?


----------



## UntilThen

fervent said:


> Hello everybody
> 
> First time poster, long time lurker.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Fervent,
  
 A big welcome to you and congrats on buying Elise. It might seem like a big sum of money but as far as head-fi gear is concerned, it is one of the smartest and best buy I've ever make. The enjoyment factor is high and will last you many years to come.
  
 It's quite easy to be worried about the extra cost of tubes but with us already determine what tubes sound best, it's a matter for you to just pick a pair of driver and power tubes. That is all you need. Your decision to buy a pair of EL3N and Mullard 6080 is certainly a good move and one that I feel will pair very well with your HD650.
  
 Cheers





 
  
 ps even with stock tubes, your HD650 will sing like never before. You will love the HD650 like a new toy.
  
 pps you don't need fancy RCA cable. Just get plain vanilla ones. If you really must spend then get Audioquest Green RCA interconnects.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> So you can actually hear, what is being said on the TV?


 

 Yes...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That means Elise plus T1 has another use.... eavesdrop LOL.
  
 Good thing LR is here to confirm it...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL.
  
 Does this also happen if you watch a movie (from a disc, computer) or is it only when you watch actual TV? What kind of signal do you use? I guess if it was an analog signal, it is entirely possible! Do you know if this happens with different tube combinations?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> LOL.
> 
> Does this also happen if you watch a movie (from a disc, computer) or is it only when you watch actual TV? What kind of signal do you use? I guess if it was an analog signal, it is entirely possible! Do you know if this happens with different tube combinations?


 

 There's no time to test every combination but my TV signal is from fibre optic cable. It's cable TV... 'see rai ears' (serious) stuff.
  
 BUT since this happens only when volume is at 3pm or greater with no music playing, I didn't give it too much thought. However if one day I hear your voice, then I will freak out.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> There's no time to test every combination but my TV signal is from fibre optic cable. It's cable TV... 'see rai ears' (serious) stuff.
> 
> BUT since this happens only when volume is at 3pm or greater without no music playing, I didn't give it too much talk. However if one day I hear your voice, then I will freak out.


 
 Hold on a second, I'll try shouting. Maybe you can hear me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Fibre optic should be a digital signal. Your tv must be sending out some kind of analog signal. This is very peculiar indeed. Got my thinker going. Interesting stuff!
  
 Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe how good EL3N and 5998 is sounding now with T1. It's fully burn in now and sounding amazing. Even LR is hooked on the T1 but I think his HD600 sounds extremely good with Elise plus choice tubes.
  
 It's a tough thing to tear ourselves away from music listening tomorrow as we drive to the Blue Mountains.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Mordy,
> 
> Man your right about running cool. I just reached over and touched the deck and was very surprised...it was very nice and cool. Heat has plagued my amp since day one, this is welcomed.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi JV...looks like there are strange goings on here re peoples' experience of EL3N treble, lol! - you turn it *up* to near max., and mordy turns it *down*!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And UT and I just love what we hear through our T1s!...so I reckon we need much more feedback here from different folks, to try and get a clearer picture and some kind of concensus, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Of course, certain things are given....especially that : 1.... the EL3N is never going to match the C3g's treble (which can actually sometimes be a _negative_ for the C3g!); 2....20/31 and FDD20 do have a more forward presentation.
  
 So, a plea to all out there..._*please give us your own personal experience of EL3N's treble*_, and the gear used...*THANKS!!!*...




  
 ps.  Glad you really love my 20/31 invention though, JV! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


untilthen said:


> LR's Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G that hums in his setup back home is quiet on mine. Spanish Harlem on DSD 64 with Mazda 6N7G and stock power tubes sounds amazing now.


 
  
 Well UT...given the mammoth task LR undertook to cure _most_ of his hum, this pretty well confirms that most problems related to using the 'alternative' higher gain driver tubes are indeed down to _something_ else in the set-up/environment, lol!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


suuup said:


> I've been thinking the same actually. I talked to an AV guy, but he couldn't tell. I don't think so though. If I tap the right driver/power, I only hear it on the right channel, same for left.
> 
> 
> Also, I forgot to turn of my Elise when I went to sleep last night. Luckily, I woke up after 2 hours and couldn't sleep anymore, so she wasn't left alone for too long. Got a real scare when I noticed..


 
 Hi S...presumably it's the two triodes within the single tube that would be in series, and so each channel remains separate...hence tap results?...
  
 You have actually prompted me to mention something I personally can't quite figure out - ie. looking closely at the innards shot that Lukasz provided (and on post#1 of the old thread), I could swear both grids, anodes and cathodes are connected...which should mean _parallel?!!  _Now, whether some kind of strange series/parallel combination is going on, I just don't know...and Lukasz would probably not want to divulge either, lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


fervent said:


> Hello everybody
> 
> First time poster, long time lurker.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aaahhh....another 'lurker'...I have been keeping my eye on you guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and it's _*so*_ good when we can get a name to them...if not a _face_!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway...a big *WELCOME* to you, Fervent...and congrats on choosing the Elise. *ALL* conflict will disappear the minute you open the package, let alone as soon as you fire her up lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.      WELL DONE!!!
  
 And as UT says, there is now a _very_ wide choice of tubes for you to study carefully before buying....we've done all the hard (and expensive!) work for you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I would look carefully at the power tube results especially....particularly as you have already decided on what most would agree to be the best current choice of driver (that doesn't need any extra external power supply!) - ie. the EL3N!          CHEERS!    and I wish you a _short_ wait for your own bringer of joy!..........


----------



## pctazhp

This is the first song I ever remember hearing, and Suzy's version is the best I have ever heard. Such a beautiful voice from a beautiful lady.
  

  
 I know a lot of people just laugh at this kind of music, but for me it's a major case of goose bumps. 
  
 @hypnos1:  Still going strong this morning with the EL3N/GE6AS7GA combination. For me I am hearing no problem with the treble. Seems just about perfect.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> This is the first song I ever remember hearing, and Suzy's version is the best I have ever heard. Such a beautiful voice from a beautiful lady.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Hi pct...much better now thanks - but sure did miss my midnight listening session...I am well and truly _*addicted, lol!!*_ (please note, all you remaining 'lurkers'!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...come and get your fix _*now!*_...we're all waiting for you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and I'm not on commission, either...honest! Neither is UT - I think!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 Thanks for your EL3N feedback....c'mon all you guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. This music reminds me of Glenn Campbell, John Denver et al....and yea, some really nice music..._whatever, lol!!_




  


puffmtd said:


> Thank you sir.  I was wondering what the wired adapters were for.  I'll start looking into these and a power supply.


 
  
 Hi puffmtd. I applaud your enterprising spirit re. looking into external power adapting, but at this early stage I personally would advise you to stick with tubes that only require simple adapters - if at all, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....we're getting such good results now from tubes that are presenting no _possible_ problems, that you may wish to hold  off for a while...if not indefinitely! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....GOOD LUCK with whatever direction you take, however....


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1:  Still going strong this morning with the EL3N/GE6AS7GA combination. For me I am hearing no problem with the treble. Seems just about perfect.




Hello pctazhp - 

Do you have 2031, to compare the EL3N treble, to?


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi puffmtd. I applaud your enterprising spirit re. looking into external power adapting, but at this early stage I personally would advise you to stick with tubes that only require simple adapters - if at all, lol! :wink_face: ....we're getting such good results now from tubes that are presenting no _possible_ problems, that you may wish to hold  off for a while...if not indefinitely!  ....GOOD LUCK with whatever direction you take, however....




Hello H1 - 

When was the last time you employed 2031, H1?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> This is the first song I ever remember hearing, and Suzy's version is the best I have ever heard. Such a beautiful voice from a beautiful lady.
> 
> I know a lot of people just laugh at this kind of music, but for me it's a major case of goose bumps.
> 
> @hypnos1:  Still going strong this morning with the EL3N/GE6AS7GA combination. For me I am hearing no problem with the treble. Seems just about perfect.


 
@pctazhp  I'm listening to this song now via the same combo EL3N / GE 6AS7GA. Firstly, it's a lovely song  Secondly it's a lovely combo. One of those I post several times. IMO the GE 6AS7GA is a real bargain. It's a warmer tone with a solid bass.
  
 Will switch to the 2031 and 2 FDD20 in a minute.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello pctazhp -
> 
> Do you have 2031, to compare the EL3N treble, to?


 

 JV:  I've got the 2031 combo, but haven't tried it yet. I've got a busy week ahead, but will try to get to it in the next few days and let you know.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1 -
> 
> When was the last time you employed 2031, H1?


 

 Hi JV...'twas immediately before the EL3Ns went in, so the 'magic combo' was still fresh in my mind (and lovin' it, lol!), which is why I had such mixed emotions on first hearing the EL's....I _*didn't want*_ anything to beat my beloved combo - just as I hadn't wanted anything to beat my (also!) beloved Siemens C3g'S's, LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Each time, so much _more_ came to the table...which only continued to grow with further burn-in. For me, the EL3Ns have a far greater - and more balanced - frequency range, plus even greater spatial character (especially after 60+ hrs) which, of necessity, reduces somewhat the treble's 'impact'. And although I have always loved the Siemens C3gS treble immensely, I personally found myself preferring the slightly more 'laid back' treble of the EL3N...especially given its other wonderful qualities!
  
 Despite the FDD20 and 20/31 not having quite the Siemens's treble extension/impact, sometimes - depending on the recording, of course - it could still be a tad too much for my Beyer T1s...and _my _ears!! And so, even if just for this reason alone, the EL3Ns are now my permanent drivers...I can now play _*all*_ levels of high-treble-biased recordings with impunity, and still enjoy those with _less_ treble bias - the best of all worlds. And given the state of my amp's sockets now, after all the rolling, I can sleep safe and sound in the knowledge that I don't need to keep swapping tubes to suit the recording.
  
 And don't forget, the ESS Sabre DAC in my Audiolab 8200CD player is also on the bright side of neutral, which will be having quite an influence on final output, of course.
  
 Thus, I feel there is nothing lacking _*whatsoever*_ in the treble I am getting from my set-up, lol....but of course, results will vary from person to person - which is why I welcome as many different opinions as possible...there are _so_ many variables - as always! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







..........CHEERS!............


----------



## mordy

Hi Perfect Analog,
  
 Welcome to the forum! Once you have the Elise all your doubts will be dispersed!
  
 Re matched driver tubes:
  
 Sometimes you see ads for tubes were one triode is listed as 100% and the second triode 60% etc. In other words, the triodes are not well matched. I asked Lukasz the question if it matters using such tubes in the Elise. Here is the answer:
  
_"The imbalanced triodes may give the effect of changed depth/center of music stage, with shift left/right channel, depending on how strong the imbalance is. Other than that it shouldn't have much more effect."_
  
 IMHO it does not seem to be big problem, especially if you have access to a balance control.
  
 Another thing I learned is that a difference of 10% or less is considered perfectly acceptable with tubes and qualifies for a matched set.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV...'twas immediately before the EL3Ns went in, so the 'magic combo' was still fresh in my mind (and lovin' it, lol!), which is why I had such mixed emotions on first hearing the EL's....I _*didn't want*_ anything to beat my beloved combo - just as I hadn't wanted anything to beat my (also!) beloved Siemens C3g'S's, LOL!!  ...Each time, so much _more_ came to the table...which only continued to grow with further burn-in. For me, the EL3Ns have a far greater - and more balanced - frequency range, plus even greater spatial character (especially after 60+ hrs) which, of necessity, reduces somewhat the treble's 'impact'. And although I have always loved the Siemens C3gS treble immensely, I personally found myself preferring the slightly more 'laid back' treble of the EL3N...especially given its other wonderful qualities!
> 
> Despite the FDD20 and 20/31 not having quite the Siemens's treble extension/impact, sometimes - depending on the recording, of course - it could still be a tad too much for my Beyer T1s...and _my_ ears!! And so, even if just for this reason alone, the EL3Ns are now my permanent drivers...I can now play _*all*_ levels of high-treble-biased recordings with impunity, and still enjoy those with _less_ treble bias - the best of all worlds. And given the state of my amp's sockets now, after all the rolling, I can sleep safe and sound in the knowledge that I don't need to keep swapping tubes to suit the recording.
> 
> ...




Sounds good, H1. The fact that your cans are bright and your DAC is bright, makes the EL3N's "just right" for your system.

What you say about the smooth FR and "greater spatial character" is exactly the opposite in my cans using my DAP's as source. 

I find the EL3N Joy is dependent on choice of headphone. My Senn's LOVE the EL3N as drivers my Beyers' love 2031 or 2xFDD20 more than EL3N's,

I like the Beyers' better, so it's 2031 land or 2xFDD20 for me.

It's great that we all have something that we love.

Cheers!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Enjoy the trip to the Blue Mountains!
  




  
 Say hello to the Three Sisters:
  




  
 And try the world's steepest railway - the Katoomba Railway:
  




  
 And the cable car:
  








  
 And when you come back home, order a pair of 6BL7 lol.....
  
 Took these pictures from a visit 10 years ago - doubt that the place has changed much.....


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Sounds good, H1. The fact that your cans are bright and your DAC is bright, makes the EL3N's "just right" for your system.
> 
> What you say about the smooth FR and "greater spatial character" is exactly the opposite in my cans using my DAP's as source.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again JV...sounds to me like you _*really should*_ get an ESS Sabre-based DAC - preferably one that can handle DSD format, from the sound of it! - and those Beyer T1s...I am now convinced more than ever that you are not spoiling yourself half as much as you deserve, lol...make it a _very_ early Christmas 2016, mon ami - and you can blame _me!!_





...(just don't send me the bill, though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 Still, it truly is wonderful to know we can coax Elise into whatever sound we like - fairly simply, and without having to spend _too_ much(?!)...and without having to tinker inside her, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....so it's   CHEERS! indeed....to us all...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Enjoy the trip to the Blue Mountains!
> 
> ...


 
 Hello Mordy, so you did visit Sydney some 10 years ago. If only we had known each other then, I'd have gladly show you around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One of my greatest joy in coming on this forum is meeting with some amazing folks. Yes, never mind the tubes or gorgeous sound. Its the people who makes this hobby alive for me lol. 
  
 All those pictures are what the Blue Mountains really are. It's been a while since I actually go up there so LR's coming with his wife is a good excuse for a day's trip.
  
 I had actually wanted to stop with more tubes and adapters after an additional pair of single EL3N and a pair of dual-EL3N adapters. Adapters are costing me a bomb. However I will dig one more time later for the 6BL7GT because I simply need to hear what you are hearing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since I don't need adapters if I use them as power tubes, it's not such a costly affair.
  
 Keep those impressions coming. You're doing great !
  
 Cheers


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi Perfect Analog,
> 
> Welcome to the forum! Once you have the Elise all your doubts will be dispersed!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi guys....I think perhaps there's a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we have the individual readings of the two triodes _within the same tube_, and on the other, a comparison between the two_ separate _tubes. And so, I would have thought the _combined_ total of the individual readings would need to be as close as possible (within reason!) between the two separate tubes...think I'm right, lol!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again JV...sounds to me like you _*really should*_ get an ESS Sabre-based DAC - preferably one that can handle DSD format, from the sound of it! - and those Beyer T1s...I am now convinced more than ever that you are not spoiling yourself half as much as you deserve, lol...make it a _very_ early Christmas 2016, mon ami - and you can blame _me!!_ :wink_face: ...(just don't send me the bill, though!  )...
> 
> Still, it truly is wonderful to know we can coax Elise into whatever sound we like - fairly simply, and without having to spend _too_ much(?!)...and without having to tinker inside her, lol! :eek:  ....so it's   CHEERS! indeed....to us all...




Hello H1 

I have no desire for the the ESS Sabre-based DAC or the T1's. Very happy with my current set-up.

And agree, it's wonderful to coax Elise into a tonal balance that each individual considers "top notch".

Cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1
> 
> I have no desire for the the ESS Sabre-based DAC or the T1's. Very happy with my current set-up.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fair enough, JV....and   HAPPY LISTENING!....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I had actually wanted to stop with more tubes and adapters after an additional pair of single EL3N and a pair of dual-EL3N adapters. Adapters are costing me a bomb. However I will dig one more time later for the 6BL7GT because I simply need to hear what you are hearing. :tongue_smile:  Since I don't need adapters if I use them as power tubes, it's not such a costly affair.
> 
> Keep those impressions coming. You're doing great !
> 
> Cheers




Hello UT...Mordy wants you to try 6BL7's as power tubes...no external heat or adapter needed for this.

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

I spend the last hour with 2031 followed by 2 FDD20 and then back to 2 EL3N. All the while using Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes.
  
 Some 5 days ago I did a comparison of FDD20 and EL3N .. it's in this post post #6218.
  
 My findings now are still the same. These are my 3 favourite combinations, in this order:-
  

2 EL3N 
2 FDD20
2031
  
 If EL3N didn't come along, I'd have simply been happy ending my tube rolling with 2 FDD20 and Chatham 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998. They are that good. As in that post, it's different presentations and no the EL3N did not sound lacking in treble to me. It's as clear as day listening to various songs.
  
 Enjoy Elise and certainly try all these combinations. You'll not be disappointed.
  
 ps I do appreciate that others have different preference and that is a good thing. Someone once told me...'If we all love the same thing, it would be a boring place.'


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello UT...Mordy wants you to try 6BL7's as power tubes...no external heat or adapter needed for this.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 Yes I realise this. 
  
 Is there a better brand to go for? For 6BL7GT...
  
 Price varies a lot... some cheap as NOS, some expensive.
  
 Is this what we're looking for? 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6BL7-GT-GTA-PAIR-SYLVANIA-TRIODES-NOS-NIB-/181836092006?hash=item2a56469266:g:wswAAOSwHnFV0M4F


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys....I could have sworn a while ago I saw a post mentioning "2031 and 2x FDD20s"....@puffmtd or @pctazhp?...just wanted to make sure you know "2031" means a _driver _combination of 1x ECC31 and 1x FDD20, lol....CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys....I could have sworn a while ago I saw a post mentioning "2031 and 2x FDD20s"....@puffmtd or @pctazhp?...just wanted to make sure you know "2031" means a _driver _combination of 1x ECC31 and 1x FDD20, lol....CHEERS!


 

 LOL, I have joked in the past about using eye patch for 2031 and that the ECC31 / FDD20 drivers combination is ahead of it's time... it's meant to be released in the year 2031.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys....I could have sworn a while ago I saw a post mentioning "2031 and 2x FDD20s"....@puffmtd
> or @pctazhp
> ?...just wanted to make sure you know "2031" means a _driver_ combination of 1x ECC31 and 1x FDD20, lol....CHEERS!




And note that the FDD20 is a 12 volt tube, which must be heated via an external power supply.


----------



## mordy

I just saw this review on the VE Monk thread of a MP4 player for the Russian market.
 This is the best review of the month:
  
 From review: "If you are a connoisseur of quality music, you are music fan, and for you the comfort of the outgoing sound waves, and if you only need a player to listen to music, you will never, under any circumstances !!! do not buy this player! Remember this. In other cases, please."  LOL
  
 Concise and to the point LOL


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> And note that the FDD20 is a 12 volt tube, which must be heated via an external power supply.


 
 Got it ))) Thanks
  
 I have Mrs. Xuling's FDD20 wired marshmallows and this power supply: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331241057383?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Both of which are still in the box. But I'll dig them out later this week )))


----------



## mordy

Hi pctazhp,
  
 It seems that a lot of people on the forum have the same taste in music, but there is no need to apologize if your personal taste differs.
  
 I love old classic jazz from the 20's and early 30's, but it is not something I developed - it just was there, and over time I slowly discovered what I liked.
  
 When I grew up in Sweden there was only one radio station with a single program channel which was run by the Swedish government. Radio Sweden had a very large record library and in order to cater to all tastes they played a large variety of music. Every morning there was a two hour program with non stop various music selections, but no one announced what was playing.
  
 As a kid I got a reel to reel tape recorder, and I would sit in front of the radio with a microphone. When I heard a tune I liked I would hit the record button. On a piece of paper I would just number the selections and use a colored pen to rate each recording. 
  
 Later on I found that the recordings I liked the best were jazz recordings from the 20's. I arranged for the city library to buy a discography so I could look up what was available by each artist, and then I started reading and learning about early jazz . 
  
 Wherever I found a record shop I would head for the bargain bin, because often I could find the music I liked in there. There was usually an opportunity to listen to a record before you bought it - the record shops had listening booths with record players.
  
 Nobody in my family likes my music, but I still like it. 
  
 Here is a recording that it took me years to find out what it was. On my paper this selection had a green line = 5 stars. 
  
 There are several copies of it on YouTube - picked the one with the least compression and best bass, but you have to put up with the 78 rpm surface noise. Here is Johnny Dodds and his Black Bottom Stompers from a 1927 electric recording:
  
 https://youtu.be/kzpPftB3uzs


----------



## mordy

A curator of a university jazz program sent me this link to a song that is guaranteed to make anybody smile. Guaranteed.
  
 Who doesn't like cheese cake? America's Ambassador of music - Louis Armstrong in the Cheese Cake Song:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrhdYQ_wMg


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pctazhp,
> 
> It seems that a lot of people on the forum have the same taste in music, but there is no need to apologize if your personal taste differs.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow mordy. Thanks so much for your story and the Johnny Dodd's record. I can't say I have ever heard of him. But love his music and so great to see what looks to be an old Garrard turntable. The story of your early love of music was really fun to read. I can't even imagine how special those memories are for you. I'm honored you took the time to share them with us.
  
 I really haven't thought of 78s in years until I read your post. In fact, it jogged my memory. The Red River Valley recording that is the first song I can remember was on a 78 that looked something like this: https://www.etsy.com/se-en/listing/244369519/78-rpm-record-guild-red-river-valley. In fact, that may have been the actual record.
  
 I played it on a non-electric, wind-up victrola that looked something like this:  https://www.google.com/search?q=wind+up+victrola+record+player&tbm=isch&imgil=s9NFompDLRqwKM%253A%253Bj9Uenah0b8tX9M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fbhp%25252Fwind-up-record-player&source=iu&pf=m&fir=s9NFompDLRqwKM%253A%252Cj9Uenah0b8tX9M%252C_&biw=1905&bih=916&usg=__kFlCgoFFwjgfsYFAxQNZ-DDuots%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj0puTCmLTKAhVKx2MKHem-AJ0QyjcIWA&ei=3UmdVrTEIsqOjwPp_YLoCQ#imgrc=mN0Afsn5yCiYcM%3A&usg=__kFlCgoFFwjgfsYFAxQNZ-DDuots%3D
  
 Later upgraded to this actual turntable: https://www.google.com/search?q=wind+up+victrola+record+player&tbm=isch&imgil=s9NFompDLRqwKM%253A%253Bj9Uenah0b8tX9M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fbhp%25252Fwind-up-record-player&source=iu&pf=m&fir=s9NFompDLRqwKM%253A%252Cj9Uenah0b8tX9M%252C_&biw=1905&bih=916&usg=__kFlCgoFFwjgfsYFAxQNZ-DDuots%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj0puTCmLTKAhVKx2MKHem-AJ0QyjcIWA&ei=3UmdVrTEIsqOjwPp_YLoCQ#imgrc=vDQCOjNfuV81DM%3A&usg=__kFlCgoFFwjgfsYFAxQNZ-DDuots%3D


----------



## mordy

How do you like cheese cake?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> How do you like cheese cake?


 

 I absolutely love it. I've never seen it before but I've loved his music my entire life. I'm listening to What a Wonderful World right now.
  
 And the hits just keep on coming!!! What an amazing thread this is.


----------



## UntilThen

Yo guys this is for all of you. Sure does make me smile listening to it. One of my fav songs of all time.


----------



## mordy

Here is an early truly hot Armstrong recording from 1926 showcasing his tremendous skill and drive as a trumpet player. Reissued on an Australian label (Swaggie).
  
 At 45 sec there is a 2 sec break that I have never heard anybody being able to copy (and Louis is one of the most copied artists in jazz). At 1:48 there is a hot solo that defines hot jazz for me.
  
 Stomp Off, Let's Go:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjoL2i15qY4


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Just a note on lead times.
  
 I paid for Elise on 11/19.
  
 It has been 8 Calendar weeks, and 4 days.
  
 Given holidays, it likely is around 7 working weeks and 4 days.
 I was quoted 7 weeks.
  
 I expect Elise to ship this week!
  
 So Lukasz is pretty close on his estimates right now.


----------



## UntilThen

That's good news PA. I know the anticipation. It's agonising. Soon your HD650 will be treated to some glorious tube amp sound. What tubes do you have ready besides the stock tubes?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Here is an early truly hot Armstrong recording from 1926 showcasing his tremendous skill and drive as a trumpet player. Reissued on an Australian label (Swaggie).
> 
> At 45 sec there is a 2 sec break that I have never heard anybody being able to copy (and Louis is one of the most copied artists in jazz). At 1:48 there is a hot solo that defines hot jazz for me.
> 
> ...


 
 Great reminder that with all our vintage tubes, Polish genius, adapters from an obscure monastery in Tibet, and state-of-the-art German engineered headphones, it's still the great artists who produce the music.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> But I've got a long way to go. Haven't even started through my different driver tubes. And on the power end I still need to try my *pair of 6520s*.


 
@pctazhp  would be interesting to hear what you think of the Chatham 6520.


----------



## UntilThen

Finally LR is bringing his pair of EL3N adapters for me to try out 4 EL3N in Elise. That will be later today as we're about to set off for the Blues. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I think it's interesting @puffmtd Elise survive after using Tung Sol 5998 as drivers. Said it sounded good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder how long he had it in there.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

untilthen said:


> That's good news PA. I know the anticipation. It's agonising. Soon your HD650 will be treated to some glorious tube amp sound. What tubes do you have ready besides the stock tubes?


 
  
@UntilThen
  
 I feel prepared.
  
 Stock power
 RCA 6AS7G JAN
 Mullard 6080
  
 Slyvania 6SN7 WGTA
 RVC FDD20 + Marshmallow Adapters + 12V Supply Apparatus
 Philips EL3N + Marshmallow Adapters


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> I feel prepared.
> 
> ...


 

 Excellent. That's all you need.


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP: Glen Frey

http://pagesix.com/2016/01/18/eagles-founding-member-glenn-frey-dead-at-67/

:mad:


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I know a lot of people just laugh at this kind of music, but for me it's a major case of goose bumps.


 
  
 Nothing to laugh at. It's _crap_ (the c is silent) that I don't get. At all.


----------



## aqsw

How about that Death Metal. It sounds like the cookie monster is the lead singer.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> RIP: Glen Frey
> 
> http://pagesix.com/2016/01/18/eagles-founding-member-glenn-frey-dead-at-67/


 

 A sad day indeed. This is my fav song...


----------



## Oskari

aqsw said:


> How about that Death Metal. It sounds like the cookie monster is the lead singer.


 
  
 Not much better…


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> How about that Death Metal. It sounds like the cookie monster is the lead singer.




LOL 

After he just drank Drano 

+1 on "don't get RAP" and Lordy, it's been around for more than 20 years.

I meet 20 somethings, who grew up on it, and know *nothing* else!

:mad:


----------



## Makiah S

untilthen said:


> A sad day indeed. This is my fav song...




 Oh man Dx that's no fun. I grew up listening to them


----------



## JazzVinyl

If you have not already seen it, the "Kickstarter Funded" film about the History Of The Eagles...is really good, it's on Netflix or Amazon Prime (can't remember which one).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/20/the-history-of-the-eagles-film-the-eagles-sundance_n_2515648.html

:rolleyes:


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> A sad day indeed. This is my fav song...




Lyin' Eyes

Always one of my favorites...


----------



## UntilThen

Guess its Eagles songs the whole way up Blue Mountains.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Finally LR is bringing his pair of EL3N adapters for me to try out 4 EL3N in Elise. That will be later today as we're about to set off for the Blues.


 
  
 There's important tube rolling to be done and you're taking a break in the mountains? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is clearly unacceptable.


----------



## UntilThen

I don't have the heart to ditch LR for single adapters. Maybe for dual EL3N adapters I will ...


----------



## Oskari

Have fun, guys!


----------



## UntilThen

Still waiting for Mr Bollywood to show up....at meeting point. Is KSA time same as Sydney?


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL sorry guys! I'm taking the tube rolling to a full stop for today 

We're stuck at the train station. There was an unexpected change in the train route. 

See you UT! I'm few stops away..


----------



## UntilThen

While waiting for LR, this came..one RCA 6AS7GA to partner my lonely RCA 6AS7GA... but see what happen ... they are not the same height !!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 left shorter one is the new tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow this sounds good. Better than the green ones from Parts Express 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Psychologically 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I think the ceramic and metal base generates more SQ.... lol


----------



## B-60

Sad day, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Got my EL3N and they look like this...


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 It is not psychological - the earlier Sylvania/RCA/GE tubes sound better than the later GE tubes that you have. I have both types - the tubes differ in the design of the internals.


----------



## mordy

Hi B60,
  
 I magnified your picture and could not see anything broken or damaged except for some paint flakes. I think JV reported that his tubes flaked off as well.
  
 Doesn't sound like this will effect the sound...
  
 I can understand your disappointment, but once you listen to them I am sure that you will be happy again! Maybe there is a way to repaint the tubes with heat resistant paint?


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> Sad day,
> Got my EL3N and they look like this...
> :eek:




The red paint is rapidly coming off mine too. It's just cosmetic.


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> The red paint is rapidly coming off mine too. It's just cosmetic.


 
 So, if the paint is cosmetic only then  they are fine, they do look so good with the red stripe
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank you for that info.
 Did any one pained them back to original glory???They are NOS and they look so good on the pictures and now this ,oh well!


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> So, if the paint is cosmetic only then  they are fine, they do look so good with the red stripe:rolleyes:
> Thank you for that info.
> Did any one pained them back to original glory???They are NOS and they look so good on the pictures and now this ,oh well!




You can see many that are minus the red paint on Ebay. Seems like the heat dooms the red paint. 

I was thinking of repainting mine, as Mordy suggests, with heat resistant spray paint.


----------



## B-60

Heat resistant paint you say......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




NICE, good Idea, I will look it to this , I have lots of airbrush experience
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank you for that idea!
 Cheers


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> Heat resistant paint you say......h34r: NICE, good Idea, I will look it to this , I have lots of airbrush experience
> Thank you for that idea!
> Cheers




Great! You'll be good to go, B-60! 

Paint them with a cool motif and others will be sending theirs to you, for a groovy paint job....?

EL3N drivers with a B-60 custom paint job


----------



## Suuup

The adapters have apparently landed in Denmark, so I could receive them any day now. Exciting!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> The adapters have apparently landed in Denmark, so I could receive them any day now. Exciting!




Very good, Suuup...

I'm sure your T1's will love them.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> While waiting for LR, this came..one RCA 6AS7GA to partner my lonely RCA 6AS7GA... but see what happen ... they are not the same height !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My EL3N's are the same way.  One one is a good 3/8" shorter.  It doesn't seem to affect them though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

puffmtd said:


> My EL3N's are the same way.  One one is a good 3/8" shorter.  It doesn't seem to affect them though.




I have 2 CHATHAM 6AS7G bought at different times and one ST envelope is shaped a bit differently from the other one as well.


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Finally LR is bringing his pair of EL3N adapters for me to try out 4 EL3N in Elise. That will be later today as we're about to set off for the Blues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They were in there about 2 hours and they did sound great.  Even after that amount of time they never did get really hot.  You could almost hold your finger to the tube for a time.


----------



## mordy

The EL3N have 40+ hours by now. The combination 6BL7 power and EL3N driver is gorgeous - perfect for me. Which flavor is the EL3N serving up now? Cherry with Chocolate Chips.
  
 Let's try the short stocky brute 6080 Chatham from 1960. This is an industrial grade. heavy duty tube. Expect for having regular plates instead of graphite plates it could have had Bendix written on it. 
  
 In the past pairings this was a hard hitting. punchy tube. How will it sound with EL3N? Can't tell right now - these tubes are senior citizens (at least 66 years old) and need time to warm up every time they have been down for a while - they need  20-30 minutes to come up to speed (Mainly speaking of the EL3N).
  




  
 Sound: As expected a punchy, deep bass, and overall very good, but lacking that certain sweetness in the mid range. What flavor is this? Decided to consult with Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream Company for ideas. Found a site with their ten most popular flavors. FOLKS, I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP, AND I HAVE THE PICTURES TO PROVE IT:
  
 How about Chunky Monkey?
  




  
 Naw, no monkey business here; this is serious stuff, I mean evaluating antique vacuum tubes.
  
 What about this:
  
  




  
  
 Phish food? Nothing fishy here - just honest evaluations as subjectively objective as possible - or was it objectively subjective?
  
 You know when the ice cream is frozen so hard that it is hard to scoop it? There is nothing wrong with it, just difficult to enjoy it. This describes the Chatham 6080 - there is nothing wrong; punchy, deep bass, but a certain hardness and harshness to the sound. YMMV.
  
 We started with the delicious 6BL7. Guess which flavor was number one for several years:
  




  
 Cherry Garcia.
  
 A guitar playing cow.
  
 Don't know what the world is coming to... The number one flavor is:




  
  
 Half Baked
  
 I think that I need different source of inspiration for flavors to describe the vacuum tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> Sad day,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo B-60...not so pretty, but no effect whatsoever on sound, as already mentioned. To tell the truth, I'm of two minds re. this paint job...the tube still looks really good _without_ the band - in fact, I think it then makes it look a more _serious_ tube...in keeping with its _seriously good_ pedigree, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
 Glad you're liking them already...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...they get much better still!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


suuup said:


> The adapters have apparently landed in Denmark, so I could receive them any day now. Exciting!


 
  
 Better stay at home 'til they come, Suuup...we've waited long enough, lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








puffmtd said:


> They were in there about 2 hours and they did sound great.  Even after that amount of time they never did get really hot.  You could almost hold your finger to the tube for a time.


 
  
 Don't suppose you noticed whether the transformer and/or the case felt any hotter at all, puff?...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> The EL3N have 40+ hours by now. The combination 6BL7 power and EL3N driver is gorgeous - perfect for me. Which flavor is the EL3N serving up now? Cherry with Chocolate Chips.
> 
> Let's try the short stocky brute 6080 Chatham from 1960. This is an industrial grade. heavy duty tube. Expect for having regular plates instead of graphite plates it could have had Bendix written on it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You do indeed bring us light relief, mordy, as well as interesting things to try! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...good on yer!! Perhaps cocktails might bring more inspiration...am thinking an infinite mix of alcohol (flavours _and_ strengths!); fruits; herbs and various other flavourings - should keep you busy for a good while, methinks lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But back to ice cream, my GEC 6AS7G variants are definitely "Rum and Raisin"...but with a touch of honey thrown in : body; hint of bite; honeyed sweetness (not saccharin!); perfect balance between sweet and sour...._delicious!!!_


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Better stay at home 'til they come, Suuup...we've waited long enough, lol!!


 
 Had an exam this morning (went well), so I had to leave home. Fortunately, the mailman hasn't been here yet. It was delivered at the local distribution center this morning too, and I often receive my packages the same day they're delivered at the distribution center. I don't even dare put on my headphones, in case I miss the mailman knocking on my door. Fingers crossed


----------



## UntilThen

Review of this coming up.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Review of this coming up.


 
 You'll be making @hypnos1 jealous UT!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Had an exam this morning (went well), so I had to leave home. Fortunately, the mailman hasn't been here yet. It was delivered at the local distribution center this morning too, and I often receive my packages the same day they're delivered at the distribution center. I don't even dare put on my headphones, in case I miss the mailman knocking on my door. Fingers crossed


 
  
 GOOD MAN!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.  Well done on the exam!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Review of this coming up.


 
  
 UT....I think I love you!!...but only if you save most of it for when I hopefully make it down your way one day, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










....(it will have probably matured a good bit more by then, no doubt!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....CHEERS!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps.  And yes, if you ever even get to _smell_ this glorious nectar I shall be "sick as a parrot", as we say over here!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

Who says it's real XO... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway before the real review here's a picture of today's outing ... pleasure before work.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's a sneak preview of 4 EL3N. I've just started my listening session. It's been a long day but very enjoyable time spend in the Blue Mountains with LR and his wife. Only marred by another motorist who decides to hit me from behind at a red light, on my way home. Minor damage but will report it tomorrow.
  
 Nevertheless after a refreshing shower and a quick dinner, I prep the 4 EL3N in Elise, flick the power switch on and let the tubes heat up while I take some photos. Sure looks good. Initial listen on Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon on the T1 sounds really good. Volume at 10am. Reasonably loud. Switch to HD650 and it still sounded just as good - volume at 9.7am Listen intently to the whole tonal range and everything sound clear and good. Smile on my face. This is more promising then I thought.
  
 Switch to a more up tempo song, Hotel California on the Hell Freezes Over albums by the Eagles - using T1. I am happy now or at least so far. There's clarity and details. Don Henley drum beats comes through loud, clear and impactful. Guitar sound very detail. Don's vocals sounded perfect. I'm very impressed. The 2nd pair of EL3N are still brand new..... 
  
 I'll be doing a whole day of listening tomorrow with all genres and with all my headphones. Will specifically test for sound breakups at loud volume. Will be putting some high frequencies track and some bass tracks as well as more vocals tracks. Will listen to classic rock, blues, jazz, classical and electronic before I make a detail report.
  

  
 ps... after more than an hour, Elise feels cool.. more like cold steel... there's no warm or heat on the chassis surface...amazing. Power transformer housing feels cool. No hum no distortions.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> ps... after more than an hour, Elise feels cool.. more like cold steel... there's no warm or heat on the chassis surface...amazing. Power transformer housing feels cool. No hum no distortions.




Hello UT...nice picture of Blue Mtns. And sorry to hear you were hit from behind on your outing. Glad it was minor damage and no one hurt.

4 EL3N's looks good. 

Wonder if 4 EL3N's as drivers will fit? Looks pretty 'populated' with' 4 EL3N's on board..

Cool...yes, I notice the EL3N's do not get very warm. That's a big plus if you eventually run six 

Cheers!



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Interesting studio mix misstep's detected...

Uriah Heep - the album is Demons and Wizards
The Song "The Wizard"

First Chorus is: "He had a cloak of gold and eyes of fire"

The first time the chorus is heard, a harmony voice is heard in the right cup, pretty up (loud) in the mix.

As he sings "He had a cloak of gold and...

During "and" he is rudely cranked down to zero and is out of the mix.

Heard this song a million times and this is the first time I noticed this rude pull out of this harmony voice.

---

Also, the Who: "Pinball Wizard"

At the acoustic guitar intro - 

The acoustic guitar is in the right channel.

It is rather crudely echo'd about a 1/8 second later in the left cup (to emulate a large hall?.

It's clearly added there and was not recorded that way.

When the music gets busier, this 1/8 delay is rather crudely ended.


High Resolution via Elise and quality phones brings these mix errors, to the forefront.

Cheers to the *LUCKY* ones...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Who says it's real XO... :tongue_smile:
> 
> Anyway before the real review here's a picture of today's outing ... pleasure before work.




Same spot Mordy photographed, 10 years prior 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/6690#post_12263114


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello UT...nice picture of Blue Mtns. And sorry to hear you were hit from behind on your outing. Glad it was minor damage and no one hurt.
> 
> 4 EL3N's looks good.
> 
> ...


 

 There are more pictures from LR. Yes the accident happens when I was alone after dropping off LR and his wife. Stopped at a traffic light. 2 cars were in front of me and suddenly I heard and felt an impact behind. Turn around and saw that the car behind me had hit me. I ask him why he did that and he said he meant to step on the brakes but step the accelerator instead. /facepalm.
  
 It's ok insurance will take care of it. It's just the hassle. 
  
 4 EL3N looks like just right in there now. The fit I mean. I think I can get 4 behind as powers in a straight row and you're right ... I may not be able to fit 4 in front. In any case, that wasn't my intention. I don't think 4 as drivers is necessary because right now the gain is massive with 2 !!!  I can't imagine what 4 as drivers would do. In fact I can't imagine what 4 as powers would do...more horse power and rear wheel drive? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We'll see... plan to run 4 as powers when those dual EL3Ns adapters arrived. 
  
 p/s with 4 EL3Ns in there now, there so much power...using T1 my volume is only at 10am for a comfortable listen... 11 is LOUD.  12 and I'm starting to look foolish and about to destroy my ears.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Same spot Mordy photographed, 10 years prior
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/6690#post_12263114


 

 I'm not surprised. Millions must have stood at that same spot over 70 years and photograph that same 3 rock formations they call the 3 sisters. I call them the 3 power tubes.... or drivers ?!


----------



## UntilThen

Additional updates on 4 EL3Ns. In the few hours since I roll in the 2nd pair of EL3N, the sound is already getting very smooth now. This is what I like about the sound from EL3N. It is so soothing and yet vibrant. Relax and yet sparkling with excitement. It's an unusual combination. There's details in the music. Details galore. It's non fatiguing and yet when you turn up the volume, you get a full blast. So don't for a minute think this is a mini car. This is a Maclaren super sports car. 
  


 As I said, I'm still in my listening / impression gaining mode but all I have to say at this point is... it's the best sound I've heard to date... yes with all the tubes I've heard so far and that includes the FDD20 and 2031, Mazda, Visseaux and Fivre. It's better sounding than EL3N and 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. 4 EL3Ns looks like the future ..for me at least. For you? That's for you to decide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Behold the future....which is now !

  
 Problem is ..when LR leaves in 2 days time...I don't feel like returning those 2 white adapters to him.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 I'll start brewing the Hennessy XO in preparation for your coming. In any case, there's always the vintage Samurai whisky in the photo for us to get really tipsy.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright 1st sign of disappointment with 4 EL3Ns.
  
 Sound break up on HiFiman HE560 planar magnetics at 10.30am onwards. It hasn't got enough of whatever it is to drive it properly. EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G drove the HE560 flawlessly.
  
 T1 and HD650 has no such issues. Right until almost 12noon on the T1, control is flawless. I couldn't go any higher on the volume as that will definitely damage my hearing. Similarly on HD650, I got up to 11am and no higher.
  
 So that rules out the HE560 with 4 EL3Ns. Let's see if 4 EL3N as power tubes will help drive the HE560 properly. If not, it's ok as I primarily listen with the T1 these days and sometimes HD650.
  
 Using T1, listening to Sarah Brightman songs. She has an incredible sopranos tonal range. Phantom of the Opera now sounded like it did when I saw it live at Capitol Theatre many years ago. Amazing high notes coming through with such musicality. I'm in awed with 4 EL3N and T1.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *Who says it's real XO...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What are you saying, UT??! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Far Eastern copies even of the hallowed Hennessy?...*sacrilege, heinous, CRIMINAL!!!*..._please _tell me this is all a bad dream, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
  


untilthen said:


> Additional updates on 4 EL3Ns. In the few hours since I roll in the 2nd pair of EL3N, the sound is already getting very smooth now. This is what I like about the sound from EL3N. It is so soothing and yet vibrant. Relax and yet sparkling with excitement. It's an unusual combination. There's details in the music. Details galore. It's non fatiguing and yet when you turn up the volume, you get a full blast. So don't for a minute think this is a mini car. This is a Maclaren super sports car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT, all I can say is...._*wonderful!!*_...and WELL DONE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(but has me wondering what the devil was going on with _my_ trial, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....will obviously have to try again - but next time with two in the back, not 1 + GEC 6AS7G!).
  
 If this can be replicated, then the implications are _gargantuan_, of course....5998/Chatham performance (or _better?!_) for less $$$$$...WOWEE!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...a discovery indeed to be applauded, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 ps. Great to see both of you having a good time Down Under...thanks for the photos. But sorry to hear of the shunt...yeah, it's the hassle that sucks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but glad no injury at least...
  
 pps. Doesn't sound like 4x EL3Ns are actually needed in the back - _or_ front...but who knows what extra delights may result? This is truly ground-breaking stuff, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...keep up the good work!!...CHEERS!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> As I said, I'm still in my listening / impression gaining mode but all I have to say at this point is... it's the best sound I've heard to date... yes with all the tubes I've heard so far and that includes the FDD20 and 2031, Mazda, Visseaux and Fivre. It's better sounding than EL3N and 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. 4 EL3Ns looks like the future ..for me at least. For you? That's for you to decide.




Yeah! It looks really cool too, UT!! I am happy that you and H1 have found the "Ultimate" tubes for your gear. That's exciting!

At my place with my Fav cans, this combo still reigns supreme:



I have spent some quality hours rolling between my best 6SN7's 6N7G's ECC31, 2031 2xFDD20, and C3gS all will 5998 as powers.

Narrowed it down to my fav 4 sets of drivers, then talked my significant other into a Blind Test...where she rolled the tubes and set the volume to a level I had pre-determined to match, for the 4 sets of drivers.

I figured my Tube Rolling journey would be over (for now) for the tubes picked in the blind test.

I chose 2xFDD20/5998's as my ultimate combo in the blind test, for DT-990 HP's and my DAP's as source.

The EL3N/5998 combo is great in my Sennheisers, but I personally prefer the Beyers.

The other set of drivers that competed against 2xFDD20 was 2xECC31, 2xEL3N and 2xC3gS (no 6SN7's made the cut).

I then asked myself why the 2xFDD20 please me more and my answer is, better shimmer in the treble and "Air and Space between instruments" is greater in 2xFDD20 Philips Miniwatt.

The most alarming fact was *HOW MUCH BETTER THE "DISCOVERED Tubes" sound than 6SN7's!!*

Hope all here find their Ultimate Tubes and *ENJOY*! 

Cheers, to us *LUCKY* ones!





.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yeah! It looks really cool too, UT!! I am happy that you and H1 have found the "Ultimate" tubes for your gear. That's exciting!
> 
> At my place with my Fav cans, this combo still reigns supreme:
> 
> ...


 
 That's a very accurate description of the best combos which happens to be my favourites too. With 5998 power tubes, these are easily the best drivers that I've come across in Elise but I'll add a few more that I have in my collection. These are premier range IMO. As stated earlier, I like to switch my tubes occasionally as that gives me a new tone each time which is very fresh and exciting. 
  
 I cannot and will not live with just one set of tubes. That's not for me. 
  
 Philips EL3N
 Philips Miniwatt FDD20 or even RVC FDD20
 C3G - pick any brand ...according to me 
 Mullard ECC31 - to a lessor degree for me..these sounded too warm for my liking...again it's individual preference
 Mazda 6N7G
 Visseaux 6N7G
 Fivre 6N7G - including the brown base
  
 agree ... all these sounded better than 6SN7 or even 7N7 to me.
  
 ps ...besides 5998, I like to switch power tubes with Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080 and GE 6AS7GA too.  
 Variety is the spice of life.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Yeah! It looks really cool too, UT!! I am happy that you and H1 have found the "Ultimate" tubes for your gear. That's exciting!
> 
> At my place with my Fav cans, this combo still reigns supreme:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV...and glad you've found the best combo for _your_ set-up, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it certainly is rather ironic that all these "discovered" tubes should beat the very drivers Elise was actually configured for - the 6SN7.... and even more _fortunate_, of course!!  I'd _love _to be the fly on the wall at Feliks-Audio HQ each time they've heard of the latest liberties we have been taking with their baby...thank the Gods none of us has blown our (their!) precious gifts, lol!...*Long may this be the case, lol!...*


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


>


 
  
 Hey, the snowballs look quite nice when there's four of them!


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Hey, the snowballs look quite nice when there's four of them!


 

 That's true. They look very nice and it's easy to be influenced by looks if you're not careful.
  
 This exercise has make me more aware than ever, that IMO, I would rather consider a few combos as being best tubes. This to me, is the joy of having a good tube amp and for the record, let me just say that there are many capable OTL tube amps out there (my gut feelings). However this is the only capable tube amp I've listen to and to me it is simply unbeatable. Until someone donates a ED Zana Deux S or a boutique tube amp for me to make some comparisons. Hope I make myself clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, do we really need to make comparisons? No. Let me explain. If you have a tube amp and you are absolutely sure it sounds incredibly awesome to you, then that's it. It could be a cheap LD Mk 3. That is the best for you. Why create problems for yourself and wonder what if he (that guy over there) has a better sound. Haha 'better' depends on who hears it. I am speaking for any tube amp for that matter and yes I'm incredibly bias towards tube amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EL3N initial sparkles has settled down. I still think it's very good, if not the best but at the same time, as I roll in other drivers for comparison, I'm made more aware that it's not a straight walk over. If you look at my last scoring, most of them are close to 10/10 and some exceeds. Which makes them really really good. Grab a few of these and you'll live happily ever after. Ho ho ho.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> Here's a sneak preview of 4 EL3N. I've just started my listening session. It's been a long day but very enjoyable time spend in the Blue Mountains with LR and his wife. Only marred by another motorist who decides to hit me from behind at a red light, on my way home. Minor damage but will report it tomorrow.
> 
> Nevertheless after a refreshing shower and a quick dinner, I prep the 4 EL3N in Elise, flick the power switch on and let the tubes heat up while I take some photos. Sure looks good. Initial listen on Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon on the T1 sounds really good. Volume at 10am. Reasonably loud. Switch to HD650 and it still sounded just as good - volume at 9.7am Listen intently to the whole tonal range and everything sound clear and good. Smile on my face. This is more promising then I thought.
> 
> ...


 

 With 4 for outputs you will have more drive not volume the outputs are hooked up as a cathode follower with no gain.
 You will be able to drive more headphones and still draw less current off the transformer then 2 6AS7 types


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> With 4 for outputs you will have more drive not volume the outputs are hooked up as a cathode follower with no gain.
> You will be able to drive more headphones and still draw less current off the transformer then 2 6AS7 types


 

 That will sound absolutely sweet. I'm hoping that with 4 outputs, my HE560 will not break up in sound at 10:30am like it does with 2 outputs. Also hope that with 4, there'll be more control and polish on the headphones namely my T1 and HD650.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > With 4 for outputs you will have more drive not volume the outputs are hooked up as a cathode follower with no gain.
> ...


 

 The two 1/2s of the 6AS7 are hooked in parallel for more drive so it will be the same with 2 EL3Ns per channel. just 1.8amp heater current per side instead of 2.5amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

If the people that like the 6BL7s can get a adapter made to parallel 2 of them they will sound much better.
 Better then any 6AS7 type.
 I have a amp that uses 6 of them 3 per channel and it sounds great better then the best 6AS7 type.


----------



## UntilThen

Great ! With 2 6AS7G my HE560 sounds lovely with no distortions. So I'm really looking forward to using 4 EL3N as power tubes and it's cooler. 

Can't wait for the adapters to arrive to test it.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> If the people that like the 6BL7s can get a adapter made to parallel 2 of them they will sound much better.
> Better then any 6AS7 type.
> I have a amp that uses 6 of them 3 per channel and it sounds great better then the best 6AS7 type.




Hmmmm should try this out. Sounds promising.


----------



## 2359glenn

The only thing two 6BL7s filaments will draw 3amps instead of 2.5 for the 6AS7.
 This extra shouldn't cause a problem though.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Hmmmm should try this out. Sounds promising.







>




Thanks MIKELAP lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> If the people that like the 6BL7s can get a adapter made to parallel 2 of them they will sound much better.
> Better then any 6AS7 type.
> I have a amp that uses 6 of them 3 per channel and it sounds great better then the best 6AS7 type.




This is great information, thank you, Glenn...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> This is great information, thank you, Glenn...


 

 We nominate you to liaise with Mrs X to get the adapters for dual 6BL7s


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> We nominate you to liaise with Mrs X to get the adapters for dual 6BL7s




Ah...I see how it works now 

Will this result in a 3 amp current draw?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Ah...I see how it works now
> 
> Will this result in a 3 amp current draw?


 

 Yes that's what Glenn said and that it shouldn't cause a problem.
  
 Was thinking use 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 6BL7 as powers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yes that's what Glenn said and that it shouldn't cause a problem.
> 
> Was thinking use 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 6BL7 as powers.




Ah..missed that post...okay, got it.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 6BL7 draws 1.5 amps heater current the transformer should have a little reserve and be able
 to put out a little more then the 5 amp for two 6AS7s. Most can.
  
 More tube rolling I should shut up your wives will hate me.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> The 6BL7 draws 1.5 amps heater current the transformer should have a little reserve and be able
> to put out a little more then the 5 amp for two 6AS7s. Most can.
> 
> More tube rolling I should shut up your will hate me.


 

 Haha but we're die hard tube rollers... so thank you...
  
 It's just that 4 output powers will soon become the norm .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hey if this works well, we save on buying GEC 6AS7G !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Haha but we're die hard tube rollers... so thank you...
> 
> It's just that 4 output powers will soon become the norm ..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT, you could just be right there, lol!...must post this quickie before bed - your success prompted me to try again with 2x EL3N drivers, and 1x GEC 6AS7G + 1x EL3N...but swapped around, this time, and......_*unbelievable!!...every bit as good as 2x GECs!!*_





...don't know whether to laugh or cry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...even more detail and a touch of extra sparkle...this is just _*crazy, man!*_





. Only once on a high-level-recorded male voice crescendo was there a bit of distortion, but at a higher volume than I would normally listen to anyway, really. So possibly even that would be rectified with 2x EL3Ns per power. In that case, I suspect you would be right in the resultant _massive_ saving, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  
 Looks like I'm just gonna have to beat you to the doubling up, my good friend...and steal your thunder! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(or wish I hadn't LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 So with this thought I shall bid you all GOODNIGHT!  and CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 At this point I am basking in the sonic luxury of the little short guys supporting the huge Dutch guys in red livery - presenting RCA side getter 6BL7GTA with the Philips EL3N:
  




 The gold in the back of the picture is the Feliks face plate.
  
 So now I have one endorsement from JV, and 1/2 endorsement from 2359Glen - still counting the votes.
  
 Just throwing this out - IT NEVER ENDS - a dual C3g adapter to octal which is already in production by our prolific Mrs Xuling:
  




  




  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Dual-C3G-TO-6SN7-B65-5692-tube-converter-adapter-6-3V-/191778618216?hash=item2ca6e57b68:g:~UEAAOSwwPhWkRq7
  
 But back to the 6BL7:
 I reckon it would be a piece of cake for Mrs Xuling to make this type of adapter for two octal to one octal. Should be plenty of room for four 6BL7 tubes - could be that the adapter would protrude a little outside the chassis - the adapters can be rotated 45 degrees as well.
  
 Better than any 6AS7? The race is on....


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> At this point I am basking in the sonic luxury of the little short guys supporting the huge Dutch guys in red livery - presenting RCA side getter 6BL7GTA with the Philips EL3N:
> 
> ...


 

 Already won that race you guys just have to ketch up.
 6BL7s are the best


----------



## mordy

Thanks Glen - you made my day!
  
 In the past I know that you liked the C3g as well - how do you think a double set-up of C3g tubes would work?


----------



## UntilThen

You guys are killing me !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm having a great time with 4 EL3N now. I've never heard HD650 bass pounding so hard on Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Move aside LCD2.2...a new king is here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You need to try this combo with a dynamic headphone... 250ohms and up. T1 and HD650 are literally singing now. I can't contain my smile and happiness. 
  
 As usual, my interest is pique now to try 4 output powers.. EL3N and 6BL7 separately. I sense something really big there... but for now 4 EL3N has real synergy.
  
 Even T1's bass is pounding hard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Very linear though. Everything sparkles.


----------



## UntilThen

@JazzVinyl  don't forget to talk to Mrs X about dual 6BL7 adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

WOW listen to this with 4 EL3N.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Thanks Glen - you made my day!
> 
> In the past I know that you liked the C3g as well - how do you think a double set-up of C3g tubes would work?


 

 Never tried that the C3g as a output it is rated at 1.5 watts so 2 might work as outputs.
 Yamamoto has a headphone amp that is just 2 tubes they are the C3m similar to a C3g but with a 20 volt heater.
 I see there is a adapter for 2 C3gs to a 6SN7 that could be put in the 6AS7 sockets.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT, 

Thanks for a wonderful time in the blue mountains, I hope you're safe. I just tried to call you but I guess you're tube rolling so I El assume you're alright  

This is exactly what I was discussing with UT on our way back to use 2 x 6BL7GT tubes to give Mordy a thumbs up  lol

Goodluck guys, I'm lost in the beauty of Sydney and missing my Elise do very much. I brought my Geek Pulse SFi DAC with a juicy DC power source and enjoying the portability option. This sounds good, not as powerful as Elise but nothing is better than something 

Cheers to all the lucky ones! 
LR


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> If the people that like the 6BL7s can get a adapter made to parallel 2 of them they will sound much better.
> Better then any 6AS7 type.
> I have a amp that uses 6 of them 3 per channel and it sounds great better then the best 6AS7 type.


 
 Hey Glenn, happy to have you here!
 You say that 2x (or maybe even 3x?) sounds better than any 6AS7. This is very interesting. Can you give any comparisons between 2x / 3x 6BL7 and 5998? The GEC 6AS7G?
 I'd be very interested in 6BL7's as powers, and was actually looking for some when Mordy mentioned how well it sounded as powers. Prices weren't Denmark-friendly on Ebay though, so I stopped looking. Maybe I should search for some here in Europe. 
  
 Also, if you have the time of course, what is the difference between the role of a power tube vs the role of a driver tube? Is there something inherently different between a power tube and a driver tube?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @JazzVinyl
> don't forget to talk to Mrs X about dual 6BL7 adapters. :bigsmile_face:




Contact initiated with Mrs Xu Ling on making us some 2x 6BL7 adapters...

LR - travel safe, be good.

Cheers to All the *LUCKY* ones...

PS - inspired, I am giving my C3gS's another go as powers...behind 2x FDD20, of course


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Thanks for a wonderful time in the blue mountains, I hope you're safe. I just tried to call you but I guess you're tube rolling so I El assume you're alright
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Contact initiated with Mrs Xu Ling on making us some 2x 6BL7 adapters...


 
  
 You're welcome LR. No damage to the car. I wash it and there was nothing there save for a faint line which disappears when I polish it. 
 I'll see you tomorrow.
  
 Thanks JV, I just bought 4 GE 6BL7GTA  (2x1958 1963 1964).
  
 I hope these are the last tubes I'll buy !!!


----------



## 2359glenn

suuup said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > If the people that like the 6BL7s can get a adapter made to parallel 2 of them they will sound much better.
> ...


 

 In a Elise the driver has all the gain and amplifies the input signal. The output has no gain
 but adds current to that amplified signal to drive the headphones.
 I haven't tried two 6BL7s but 3 I have ant they sound real good.
 The 6BL7 is a US tube that wasn't really used in Europe so they are hard to get there.
 Another Good sounding tube is the 6BX7 can be subbed for the 6BL7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thanks JV, I just bought 4 GE 6BL7GTA  (2x1958 1963 1964).
> 
> I hope these are the last tubes I'll buy !!!




Yes, I am a bit burnt out on buying tubes as well, and I don't have as many as you!

Just tried C3gS then 6BL7 as powers...one per socket, certainly does not out preform 5998's


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Just tried C3gS then 6BL7 as powers...one per socket, certainly does not out preform 5998's


 
  
 Dual 6BL7 per socket will be different... I hope


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Dual 6BL7 per socket will be different... I hope




I'm sure it will.

Mrs Xu Ling says no problem in the 2x 6BL7 to one 6SN7, and warned that they might burn up the transformer supplying a 6SN7 socket, told her no problem, we had it covered


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT, you could just be right there, lol!...must post this quickie before bed - your success prompted me to try again with 2x EL3N drivers, and 1x GEC 6AS7G + 1x EL3N...but swapped around, this time, and......_*unbelievable!!...every bit as good as 2x GECs!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I experimented with my iMac source volume. Brought it down to almost minimum. I was able to turn Elise volume to 2pm without distortion. This is really LOUD. I could not put it to 3pm without destroying my ears. Listening to Laura Branigan 'Power Of Love'.... this is real power with 4 EL3N  
  
 Find yourself another EL3N and run it with 4 EL3N. I'm using my T1 btw. Sound is very clear, almost speaker like at louder volume...and by that I mean 10 to 11am on Elise and source back to max.
  
 Now I'm really curious with 6 EL3N.


----------



## mordy

How about a rectangular adapter spanning the two power sockets with room for six 6BL7 tubes on top, two octal bases on the bottom, and wires for an external 15A power supply? The Glenise?
  
 9A of power!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> How about a rectangular adapter spanning the two power sockets with room for six 6BL7 tubes on top, two octal bases on the bottom, and wires for an external 15A power supply? The Glenise?
> 
> 9A of power!




Feel free to contact Mrs Xu Ling, Mordy! 

You'll have to give her exact measurements, but I bet she would be happy to oblige.




.


----------



## UntilThen

Left Elise on and took a nap for at least 2 hours. The amp (including power transformer) is barely warm. Wonders of cool running 4 EL3Ns.


----------



## UntilThen

Someone's perspective of what the various 6BL7s sound like. Goes back to 2006.
  
post #3
  
  
 6BL7 GTA  data spec.
 http://www.nj7p.org/Tubes/PDFs/Frank/093-GE/6BL7GTA.pdf
  
 Very high amplification factor of 15.


----------



## UntilThen

Just when I thought I'm done with tube rolling. What we are about to try now is significant. In the past, it has always been driver tubes. Some of the best varieties. Now we're about to try 4 outputs - EL3N and 6BL7. If these works well, the future looks good for Elise owners. We no longer need to rely on the expensive power tubes. *If these works well....*
  
 Even using 4 EL3N is a great success with my dynamic headphones, T1 and HD650. I've had the amp on with these tubes today for 8 hours. Last night was about 3 hours. 
  
 I can unequivocally say that 4 EL3N works and works exceedingly well. With the only exception being ... my planar magnetic HE560 has distortion pass 10:30am.
  
 I listen with these songs:-
  
 If you could Read My Mind – Diana Krall / Sarah McLachlan.
 Everybody’s Talkin’ – Diana Krall /Vince Gill.
 Hold On – Holly Cole.
 Bring It Home To Me – Sam Cooke.
 Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor 1 – Trauermarsch – Berliner Philhamoniker, Herbert von Karajan, 1996.
 Mozart Violin Concertos in D major KV 218, I, Allegro - Marianne Thorsen, Trondheimsolistene.
 Dreams – Fleetwood Mac.
 Private Investigations – Alchemy: Dire Straits Live (Remastered).
 Come Away With Me - Norah Jones
  
 I come away truly impressed. You can say I'm totally satisfied. With a BIG smile. The 4 EL3N joins the elite group of tube combos for Elise.
  

  
  
 Cheers to us the LUCKY ones.


----------



## UntilThen

A/B comparison between EL3N/EL3N vs EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G.  Using beyer T1.
 If put a Y on one, it means more or better than the other...
  

 EL3N/EL3NEL3N/Chatham 6AS7GLoudnessY - 1/2 a notch SparkleY DetailsY ClarityY BassY MidrangeY TrebleY ImagingY SoundstageY LinearityY MusicalityY EnergeticY 
  
 What kind of comparison is this? LOL. It's clearly one sided. Bottom line, I love 4 EL3N more, much more. Doing this A/B with those songs prove it. For myself at least. YYMV.
  
 What is startling is that 4 EL3N sounds louder for the same given volume knob position.
  
 ps...mind you, EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G is no slouch combo. It's one of my favourites.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> At this point I am basking in the sonic luxury of the little short guys supporting the huge Dutch guys in red livery - presenting RCA side getter 6BL7GTA with the Philips EL3N:


 
 Hello Mordy, as soon as my GE 6BL7GTA arrives, I'll be trying out your combo above. With a pair of 6BL7GTA first. Let me listen to this first before the dual adapters for 6BL7 comes.
  
 I'll also be able to do a comparison with 4 EL3Ns with the above.
  
 ps... I read somewhere that says the 6BL7 is a poor man's 2A3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll take that as a real compliment. The same can be said about the EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT, you could just be right there, lol!...must post this quickie before bed - your success prompted me to try again with 2x EL3N drivers, and 1x GEC 6AS7G + 1x EL3N...but swapped around, this time, and......_*unbelievable!!...every bit as good as 2x GECs!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@hypnos1 be my guest !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Better you than me as you'll be able to get everyone excited more than I could. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Are you planning on making your own dual EL3N adapters? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I so envy you...you can make your own adapters.


----------



## Suuup

These tubes are.. Different.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> These tubes are.. Different.




Yes, very thick bottom and lower mids...sound very good here....like a "clarified ECC31"...


----------



## UntilThen

Left side fatter. 
  
 Well what do you think?


----------



## Suuup

It's a good different... Need some time to collect my thoughts. This is a very special tube.


----------



## UntilThen

4 EL3N is sounding better than EL3N and 5998 to me .... quite an eye or ear opener. I just can't stop listening. Was supposed to go to bed. Doing comparison here.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 be my guest !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...you might actually perhaps beat me to it after all, I'm afraid...something very strange is going on in my case, alas. Remember I said I swapped over the GEC and EL3N for my last post and all seemed pretty well OK?....well, I just swapped back again - with the EL3N in the left power channel, as originally - and...._distortion, lol!_








...at between 11 and 12 o'clock vol. (And I swapped over the front EL3Ns - no luck, alas...).
  
 So now it's another try in the _right_ power channel - when it's cooled down, lol! - and see what happens...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._my_ saga continues, at least!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (I simply cannot believe how things go so smoothly for you all the time - you are indeed a _very_ LUCKY ONE!!...apart from 4x EL3Ns and your HE560s, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.  Might well go ahead with my own double adapted job nonetheless - perhaps it may solve this L channel gremlin...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


suuup said:


> It's a good different... Need some time to collect my thoughts. This is a very special tube.


 
  
 Hi Suuup...it takes quite a long while for things to really "settle down" - you've a good way to go yet before tasting its _true_ flavour, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....I can smell the Hennessy already!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (hopefully!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 

 This is part of a review of one of my amps on tweak-fi.  I am posting it here because it describes the sound of the 6BL7s compaired to a 6AS7.
  
 Moving to the six-6BL7s, the sound transforms into completely different, as if it were coming from a different amplifier altogether. In comparison with the 6AS7s, the sound becomes more focused, the soundstage feels at first smaller and tighter (while it is, in reality, deeper and better defined than that of the 6AS7s), the resolution goes up a few notches, and the overall presentation becomes much more extended at the frequency extremes yet it remains refined and delicate at the same time. As a result, I have to admit that it took me quite some time to “get” this sound. With the six-6BL7s, the sound was unlike anything I could have imagined, leaning more towards the solid state gear type of sound but showing qualities I had never heard from solid state gear.
 While I was very happy to have 2 different amplifiers in one package, I have to admit that I ended up mainly using the six-6BL7 option as it is the much superior option with the Beyer T1s as well as with the HD800s I bought after getting the amplifier. I was told by Glenn that rolling different brands of 6BL7 tubes will not change dramatically the sound of the amplifier. I have had no way to verify or deny that claim but I should be receiving soon a dozen of 6BL7s (6 GEs and a mix of other brands). In any case, the RCA 6BL7s configuration is so transparent and nice sounding that I doubt I will be finding a ground shaking difference with different brands. I will update this review if there is anything significant to report.
 It can be noted that, for the remaining of the review, I will describing the sound of the amplifier with the six-6BL7s, unless stated otherwise.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> This is part of a review of one of my amps on tweak-fi.  I am posting it here because it describes the sound of the 6BL7s compaired to a 6AS7.
> 
> Moving to the six-6BL7s, the sound transforms into completely different, as if it were coming from a different amplifier altogether. In comparison with the 6AS7s, the sound becomes more focused, the soundstage feels at first smaller and tighter (while it is, in reality, deeper and better defined than that of the 6AS7s), the resolution goes up a few notches, and the overall presentation becomes much more extended at the frequency extremes yet it remains refined and delicate at the same time. As a result, I have to admit that it took me quite some time to “get” this sound. With the six-6BL7s, the sound was unlike anything I could have imagined, leaning more towards the solid state gear type of sound but showing qualities I had never heard from solid state gear.
> While I was very happy to have 2 different amplifiers in one package, I have to admit that I ended up mainly using the six-6BL7 option as it is the much superior option with the Beyer T1s as well as with the HD800s I bought after getting the amplifier. I was told by Glenn that rolling different brands of 6BL7 tubes will not change dramatically the sound of the amplifier. I have had no way to verify or deny that claim but I should be receiving soon a dozen of 6BL7s (6 GEs and a mix of other brands). In any case, the RCA 6BL7s configuration is so transparent and nice sounding that I doubt I will be finding a ground shaking difference with different brands. I will update this review if there is anything significant to report.
> It can be noted that, for the remaining of the review, I will describing the sound of the amplifier with the six-6BL7s, unless stated otherwise.


 
  
 Hi Glenn...and thanks for sharing your own - and others' -  findings with these tubes. They sure do sound interesting...although it would appear they definitely need to be used in multiples, lol!  Mind you, with those extremely good prices, it all comes down to the price of the multiple adapters...but still cheaper than 5998s or GEC 6AS7Gs (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)!!
  
 Wish there were reviews on the use of _two_ per output, as opposed to _three_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...plus, of course, every amp is different lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Still, we do have some enterprising guys here - as you've obviously noticed!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. And who knows, maestro...perhaps _you_ might have  to play ketchup once you get a taste of the EL3N?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!....


----------



## mordy

The 6BX7 tube is supposed to be interchangeable with the 6BL7. The only difference is the gain factor 15 vs 19. In the MKIII the 6BX7 (single tube using each triode as driver) sounded better than the 6BL7, but in the Elise I much prefer the 6BL7. Don't have more than three BX tubes. (Sample dependent?)
  
 I am going through a motley bunch of 6BL7 (around 20) to see what I like best using them as power tubes. There are two main types: flat plate (two parallel plates) and cross plate (the plates look like an X).
  
 All the tubes I have are odds and ends, some new, some used, but all supposedly testing OK. Mostly GTA and GTB versions from the late 50's and from the 60's.   Really confusing trying to figure out who made which tube - looks like a Sylvania tube could be labeled GE with a GE EIA number (factory code) but without the telltale sandblasted dots; then a bunch of rebranded tubes, including a Marantz.
  
 Almost all the tubes that I have are cross plates which are newer versions than the flat plates. The Sylvania early 1950's flat plates do not sound as good as the later cross plates - the bass is weak. (Could be my sample)
  
 So far a pair of Tung Sol sound OK, pairs of GE, Sylvania and a pair of RCA side getter sound very good.
  
 Man, you gotta have patience - these tubes don't come into their own until after being burned in for some 30 hours, when suddenly the great bass wakes up.
  
 Stay tuned.
  
 Meanwhile, the little side getter RCAs smugly do their thing, proudly glowing their little heaters while producing great bass. We shall see if a double dose of BL will improve the sound.
  
 Instead of saying "It Never Ends", let's look at it positively and say:
  
 IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER?
  
 What's going on? Yesterday there were 345 listings on eBay for the 6BL7; today it is 311. Market manipulation?


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> The 6BX7 tube is supposed to be interchangeable with the 6BL7. The only difference is the gain factor 15 vs 19. In the MKIII the 6BX7 (single tube using each triode as driver) sounded better than the 6BL7, but in the Elise I much prefer the 6BL7. Don't have more than three BX tubes.
> 
> I am going through a motley bunch of 6BL7 (around 20) to see what I like best using them as power tubes. There are two main types: flat plate (two parallel plates) and cross plate (the plates look like an X).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo mordy...we really do need to see how they perform in multiples - but am gonna leave this one to others...I need a rest, lol!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...Keep up the good work!


----------



## pctazhp

Keeping up with the tube-rolling pandemic that has broken out on this thread is making my head spin. But it's a lot of fun, so keep it up guys ))). The hardest part about it is keeping up with the orders of multi-socket, multi-level adapters you dream up for poor Mrs. Xuling!!! I try to order each new adapter that she creates for us Elisers, but I know it will take about 3 weeks to get an order, and who knows where you all will be by then. I keep waiting for H1 to try out the light bulbs he mentioned a couple of weeks ago)))
  
 Great to have @2359glenn on with us. Thanks so much to him.
  
 And please don't forget to leave positive feedback on ebay for Mrs. Xuling. She is amazingly responsive.
  
 This morning I just happen to be listening to the great Marty Robbins from Glendale, Arizona through EL3N drivers/5998 power tubes. Pretty amazing.
  
 Candidly, I would like my next major move will be in the headphone arena. I know many of you love the T1s, but having derived so much enjoyment out of my HD700s, the new HD800S sure is tempting - although it is more money than the total I have invested in the Elise including tubes and adapters. Realistically, that's probably many months, if not years, down the road for me. For now, the HD700s have scaled very, very well with the Elise and various tubes.
  
 Just out of curiosity, I sure wish someone would order a pair of HD800S cans to let me know how you like them. I don't ask for much)))) I see a lot of amps discussed on the 800S threads, but not the Elise. I'd love to jump in, but not having actually heard a pair on the Elise I wouldn't carry any credibility.


----------



## hypnos1

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...you might actually perhaps beat me to it after all, I'm afraid...something very strange is going on in my case, alas. Remember I said I swapped over the GEC and EL3N for my last post and all seemed pretty well OK?....well, I just swapped back again - with the EL3N in the left power channel, as originally - and...._distortion, lol!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh dear...I'm obviously not as lucky as you, UT! - on closer examination of the swap back, this particular gremlin is not, unfortunately, confined to just the left channel.
  
 So for me at least, I shall now wait until I 'double up', and then see what happens...this really sucks, because the  sound is otherwise _extremely_ good, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I fervently hope others are luckier than I with EL3N driving (single) EL3N power...as _you_ certainly appear to be, mon ami!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However, I am not _too_ downhearted, because these EL3Ns driving my GEC/Osrams are utterly _*divine, lol!!!*_


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Keeping up with the tube-rolling pandemic that has broken out on this thread is making my head spin. But it's a lot of fun, so keep it up guys ))). The hardest part about it is keeping up with the orders of multi-socket, multi-level adapters you dream up for poor Mrs. Xuling!!! I try to order each new adapter that she creates for us Elisers, but I know it will take about 3 weeks to get an order, and who knows where you all will be by then. I keep waiting for H1 to try out the light bulbs he mentioned a couple of weeks ago)))
> 
> Great to have @2359glenn on with us. Thanks so much to him.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Would love to hear how they sound with Elise as well, pct - but they'd have to fall out of the sky for me to even contemplate them, given the sound I'm getting from the T1s paired with this amp, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....but yes..._*please*_ someone do the honours...then we can all _hate _you!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....not really, of course...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 From what I remember of my brief listen to the HD700s a _long_ while ago now, I can well imagine how wonderful they sound fed by Elise...and the EL3Ns - (_perfect_ for these cans, as for the T1s)...They should keep you happy for _many _a year...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

hypnos1 said:


> Oh dear...I'm obviously not as lucky as you, UT! - on closer examination of the swap back, this particular gremlin is not, unfortunately, confined to just the left channel.
> 
> So for me at least, I shall now wait until I 'double up', and then see what happens...this really sucks, because the  sound is otherwise _extremely_ good, lol!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Revised thoughts now, folks...both GECs back where they belong, and....WOW!...once again I'm reminded of why they're regarded as the 'Holy Grail'. Sorry Glenn, but I'm fairly sure that anything less than 6x 6BL7s would be struggling to beat this sound, when driven by the fabulous EL3Ns, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I count myself _very _lucky indeed to possess these GEC/Osrams...I only wish the prices now weren't so horrendous - then more Elise owners could perhaps share my amazement and joy at these tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but, of course, let's not forget :  Elise + _*any*_ tubes still sounds glorious, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  
  I'm afraid I shall be leaving the 4x EL3N powers to you after all UT...this return has shocked me more than I could have imagined...totally gobsmacked...(once again!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And so I can now confirm with more confidence than ever before (thankfully!!) that this is truly _*my end-game set-up!!*_...(and so please note, MIKELAP - wherever you are now - it _*CAN*_ end!!...but don't quote me on that, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 So CHEERS and HAPPY LISTENING TO YOU ALL!!


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> This is part of a review of one of my amps on tweak-fi.  I am posting it here because it describes the sound of the 6BL7s compaired to a 6AS7.
> 
> _Moving to the six-6BL7s, the sound transforms into completely different, as if it were coming from a different amplifier altogether. In comparison with the 6AS7s, the sound becomes more focused, the soundstage feels at first smaller and tighter (while it is, in reality, deeper and better defined than that of the 6AS7s), the resolution goes up a few notches, and the overall presentation becomes much more extended at the frequency extremes yet it remains refined and delicate at the same time. As a result, I have to admit that it took me quite some time to “get” this sound. With the six-6BL7s, the sound was unlike anything I could have imagined, leaning more towards the solid state gear type of sound but showing qualities I had never heard from solid state gear._
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for posting this Glenn. I have read it a while ago and was trying to find it yesterday to get another glimpse of the six 6BL7 soundscape. It does appear to be a special sound and I'm hoping that quad 6BL7 in Elise might do some of that magic.
  
 It's also good to know that changing brands of 6BL7 will not dramatically alter the sound ... but who knows here.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The 6BX7 tube is supposed to be interchangeable with the 6BL7. The only difference is the gain factor 15 vs 19. In the MKIII the 6BX7 (single tube using each triode as driver) sounded better than the 6BL7, but in the Elise I much prefer the 6BL7. Don't have more than three BX tubes. (Sample dependent?)
> 
> I am going through a motley bunch of 6BL7 (around 20) to see what I like best using them as power tubes. There are two main types: flat plate (two parallel plates) and cross plate (the plates look like an X).


 
 The link I post earlier from sacdlover gave a brief description of 6BL7GT, 6BL7GTA and 6BX7 and from that I gather there's a difference in tone. Will leave you to explore this Mordy. I've ordered 4 GE 6BL7GTA and will proceed with that first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> Keeping up with the tube-rolling pandemic that has broken out on this thread is making my head spin. But it's a lot of fun, so keep it up guys ))).


 
 pct, it's making my head spin too now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Dreaming of HD800S? Probably a good thing to do. Looks like your head-fi journey has pick up speed rapidly. Was it you or someone else who said they only wanted to buy a pair of tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And so I can now confirm with more confidence than ever before (thankfully!!) that this is truly _*my end-game set-up!!*_..


 
 H1, don't be too sure of that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I woke up and immediately power on Elise with quad EL3N. Just to confirm the sonic trip is still there. It's there alright and no distortion on my setup with T1. I'm listening to 'Telegraph Road' by Dire Straits. The guitar sound is just mesmerising on this combo. I really prefer this over using 5998 as power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Having said that, EL3N with Chatham 6AS7G and 5998 have been totally impressive. It's sweet melody. 
  
 I wouldn't be surprised at all by your description of EL3N and GEC 6AS7G. So when you do come to Oz, please bring the GEC along... then I'll open the XO.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> It's a good different... Need some time to collect my thoughts. This is a very special tube.


 

 Suuup, what's up?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Have you no feedback at all? Good, bad or ugly? Incidentally this movie was showing on TV last night lol.
  
 Come on, give us initial impressions of EL3Ns as drivers with those 5998. Don't over think. Initial impressions are important.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *H1, don't be too sure of that*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi there UT...afraid to say I am now - for the first _real_ time ever - *100%* sure, my Antipodean friend!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Now that my ears are pretty well clear of the side effects of a cold, I have spent the past couple of hours in about the most hyper-intensive/critical analysis ever of what has been entering them, and have fallen in love with the GECs all over again...thanks to the EL3Ns, of course (and T1s, lol!). And hard as I tried to find fault of _any_ kind, I'm relieved to say there is _*absolutely nothing more whatsoever*_ that I could wish for. This is the first time I can honestly say there hasn't been the slightest feeling that _something_ may just be missing...I feel the same magic now as if reliving one's very first sweet kiss...and it's a good while since I can truly admit to that, lol! 








...(much as I'm devoted to my better half!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)....'nuff said, methinks!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I am so glad you are really enamoured of your latest set-up....she sure _looks_ good too, lol! I am truly happy for you...WELL DONE!!...
  
 Ah well, the clock is about to strike, so I'll say goodnight once more...and finish by saying I really hope there will be plenty of life left in my GECs if and when I make it to Oz...and hope also you won't have snaffled _all_ my *HENNESSY!!!*........CHEERS!.....


----------



## UntilThen

Swap back to EL3N and 5998. Holy moly HE560 never sounded this good after 2 days. No distortion with 5998 as powers. Volume at 12noon. Mick Fleetwood's drums comes through pounding and impactful. Shimmering cymbals. Stevie Nick's voice is husky and seductive. Lindsey's guitar has a lightning zing. John's bass notes filling in nicely. Christine's electric organ is simply superb. Switching to T1 and the sound is even more glorious. Soundstage wide and imaging precise. There's incisive attack, nice sustain and decay. It's easy to love this sound from EL3N and 5998. It's holographic.
  
 Swap to Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and 5998. It's just as magic but a forward sound. Very nice and engaging but I prefer the above combo. This is too close to the musicians for me. 
  
 Lastly back to quad EL3N. Ugh this still sounds best to me. I was hoping it's the EL3N and 5998 as I can use my HE560 but this is the best for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soundstage seems widest and linearity is superb. Precise placement of sound and musicians. High, mid and low notes overlapping seamlessly. Left and right sound distinctly clear. I can hear the high guitar notes on 'Never Going Back Again' on the Rumours album so clearly. 'Don't Stop' came on now and I'm tapping my feet. Ok don't stop.
  
 So where do I go from here. Quad EL3N for sure while I eagerly await the arrival of dual EL3N adapters and in the distant future when Mrs X finish with the dual 6BL7 adapters.
  
 Last song came on... 'Go Your Own Way' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps...I was about to post this when your message came through. Good on you !!! A contented man is a very happy man. I should be too. There's enough good sounding tubes here to last 2 life time.
  
 Cheers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 pss.. please pass some cold air over .. it's another scorcher day today.


----------



## vince741

Dibs on UT 5998


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Dibs on UT 5998


 

 Sorry Vince...not selling the 5998 which has a long history. It came all the way from Saigon brand new. I can still smell the green paint on the letterings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I might sell you my warm and lush and seductive sounding RCA 6SN7GT smoke glass at a discounted price .... LOL. Ps.. this is great with dubstep...


----------



## vince741

You chose the wrong kind of music to sell me something, haha.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I spent a couple more hours carefully comparing driver sets (both with 5998 as powers) EL3N and FDD20.
Definitely prefer* FDD20*, by miles and miles. 

FDD20 so much better, it's not even fair to compare them. I feel a bit sorry for EL3N's, the poor, anemic things. 


Each to their own, and for me *FDD20 - are far and away the superior tubes*.



Cheers to us, the *LUCKY* ones!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

All tubes have sonic signatures.

I just happen to not like the EL3N signature, not surprised others do.

I adore the FDD20 signature. EL3N sounds "dull" too me in comparison.

But no doubt your choice of 'phones make a big difference with EL3N's.

So far, 2 for 2 Beyer T1 users, absolutely love them.

I like them far better in my Senn 580's than in my Beyer DT-990's. But I prefer DT990's.

And so it goes.

I don't mean to rain on anyone parade. It's just my opinion and my experience.

YMMV

Cheers...



.


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> All tubes have sonic signatures.
> 
> I just happen to not like the EL3N signature, not surprised others do.
> 
> ...




It's good to hear I'm not the only one that thinks the EL3N sounds dull. I had to switch them out for the stock Tung-sols because it was driving me nuts. I'm still burning in though so we will see. I don't know if I can stand them for 30 more hours though. No offense to everyone that loves the EL3N. 

JV, I have the T1s so that's not what make them different.

My observation is the EL3N are missing a lot of the midbass sonic range.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> It's good to hear I'm not the only one that thinks the EL3N sounds dull. I had to switch them out for the stock Tung-sols because it was driving me nuts. I'm still burning in though so we will see. I don't know if I can stand them for 30 more hours though. No offense to everyone that loves the EL3N.
> 
> JV, I have the T1s so that's not what make them different.
> 
> My observation is the EL3N are missing a lot of the midbass sonic range.




Mine are swamped with bass. Too much bass for DT-990 and why they made the thin-SENN's sound good.
But my pair seem to be minus any real anything past midrange. Sounds like there are no cymbals played on any song. Mine also have a TALL soundstage but not a wide one.....

Maybe some that were sold were not up to par?

And the folks reporting great glory from them have better examples?


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> Mine are swamped with bass. Too much bass for DT-990 and why they made the thin-SENN's sound good.
> But my pair seem to be minus any real anything past midrange. Sounds like there are no cymbals played on any song. Mine also have a TALL soundstage but not a wide one.....
> 
> Maybe some that were sold were not up to par?
> ...




It very well could be that our tubes are diminshed in some way. We would need a tube tester to be sure.

One other thought is we could have malfunctioning adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> It very well could be that our tubes are diminshed in some way. We would need a tube tester to be sure.
> 
> One other thought is we could have malfunctioning adapters.




If my adapters are bad, they are both bad the exact same way. 

Not sure, but my pair are not delivering "holy grail" sound. They do sound great in that low range but no treble and the very odd sound stage...

Wonder what Suuup thinks of his.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> The T1 does not have any comfort issues at all! They're almost as comfortable as the 990. They're just a tad bit heavier, and a bit more loose. I'm trying different pads because @jerick70
> asked about leather pads on the T1, and I had a pair laying around (from my 1770). They're not great with the T1 though, neither the leather nor the velour. Stock T1 pads are great though.




Suuup thanks again for testing this for me!  I'm a bit bummed though, I really prefer leather pads. I'll have to see if I can find some custom pads that don't change the acoustic properties of the headphone.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> If my adapters are bad, they are both bad the exact same way.
> 
> Not sure, but my pair are not delivering "holy grail" sound. They do sound great in that low range but no treble and the very odd sound stage...
> 
> Wonder what Suuup thinks of his.


 
  
 Hi JV...strange indeed, your and j70's findings. It's a real shame you don't seem to be getting what I and others have found with these tubes. I doubt Peter's NOS tubes would vary that much, and it's very doubtful _both_ adapters would be below par.
  
 I can understand differences in _preference_, but not the degree of lack that you guys are mentioning. A probable explanation comes down - once again - to the rest of the system : as just an example, I once tried the excellent ibasso DX90 DAP, that has _dual_ ESS Sabre DACs (but only the 'M' version), and it came _*nowhere near *_the 'full' Sabre in my Audiolab 8200CD...nor the Wolfson in my Oppo BDP103. The shortfall was very much in line with what you yourself find missing. And then there's the headphones, of course. Plus, some would say cables etc. etc., but these to a lesser degree no doubt, probably.
  
 Anyway, we look forward to everyone elses' findings as they come on line with these EL3Ns...at the moment, at least, there seem to be more in _favour _of them than _against. _But, of course, the most important thing is that we have a wonderful _choice_ of tubes....something for everyone, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## DecentLevi

So I'm making a down payment for my Eeleslie... uhmm sowy I cULDn't speel it so I orderet an Elsie instead...

 Well I'm not sure if it's the Elsie or... Elvira? but hey it leest the color is the same so maybe the sownd won't be to off.
  
  
 Then I sought a couple tubez but this is all I coold fined so this conbo will have to do:
  + 
  
  
 Finally I set owt for some headcones but this was all I could find:





 
  
  
 Is it just me, or does it seem like I've got some wires crossed?

  
  
  
 continue reading...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 wait for it...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Early April fools day joke! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm getting the real Elise, and I do have English skills - I used to be a teacher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS- @Lorspeaker for some reason I think you may have something to add.


----------



## Suuup

I cannot make up my mind about these EL3N...


----------



## DecentLevi

So my only theories on why some aren't enjoying the same EL3N sound others are could be down to hearing (some of you may unknowingly not be able to hear high frequencies so may not notice it being rolled off). Or it seems more likely a fluke pair of tubes or fluke variation in the specific Elise used that doesn't make it sound as good on some amps. Or just more burn in could help.
  
 Yup I'll be on board in around 2 months when mine is built, and I already have 2 GE 6AS7GA, 2 EL3N's and 2 FDD20's (thanks to UT  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## UntilThen

I share your sentiments @hypnos1. I find the EL3N nothing short of spectacular. I remember @CITIZENLIN 's reaction when he came online to tell us about the sound he's getting from EL3N. It was quite funny to read his impressions but he was clearly overjoyed.
  
 This afternoon was very hot. So I move Elise to the lounge for some aircon comfort. I use the Fiio X5 DAP as source to Elise. For tubes, I selected quad EL3N, EL3N and 5998, then later C3G and 5998. I was shocked at the lack of details and clarity. The sound is bassy and very unimpressive. C3G fared a bit better but still seems lacking. It was quite a revelation. This is not the sound I was getting all along.
  
 I move Elise back to my listening den. Hook up iMac > NAD d1050 > Elise > T1 and hey presto, the magic's back. Details galore and crystal clear. The whole FR was impressive. Bass no longer dominates. What I'm getting is euphonic sound. 
  
 To date, Peter's stock of 80 plus NOS EL3N tubes have been sold out. The seller on eBay have so far sold 40 tubes. It would be interesting to get more feedback.
  
 However, it's all about enjoying music with your choice of gear and tubes for Elise. There's lots of tubes combination to suit everyone.
  
 Happy listening


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> So my only theories on why some aren't enjoying the same EL3N sound others are could be down to hearing (some of you may unknowingly not be able to hear high frequencies so may not notice it being rolled off). Or it seems more likely a fluke pair of tubes or fluke variation in the specific Elise used that doesn't make it sound as good on some amps. Or just more burn in could help.
> 
> Yup I'll be on board in around 2 months when mine is built, and I already have 2 GE 6AS7GA, 2 EL3N's and 2 FDD20's (thanks to UT
> 
> ...


 

 You ordered Elise? Congrats lol. If those GE 6AS7GA, EL3N and FDD20 don't impress you, I've gone fishing for good.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> The link I post earlier from sacdlover gave a brief description of 6BL7GT, 6BL7GTA and 6BX7 and from that I gather there's a difference in tone. Will leave you to explore this Mordy. I've ordered 4 GE 6BL7GTA and will proceed with that first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah. I think that was me)))
  
 My head-fi journey is a lot more dangerous than my past audiophile journey. The internet didn't exist or was in its infancy back then, so I couldn't order something new with just the click of a mouse. Fortunately, headphone stuff is generally a lot less expensive than speaker based systems.
  
 I feel like I have kind of hit a plateau with the tubes. I'm pretty happy with the EL3Ns in the drivers seat. The power tubes don't seem as important.
  
 I have tried my FDD20s briefly. Unfortunately, I've got a hum problem. I suspect it may be the tubes themselves. The hum is totally independent of the volume level on the Elise. It exists even with the volume at zero. With the Philips miniwatts, the hum is only on one side. The hum with the RVC is less but is on both sides. What is baffling for me is the fact that the hum exists even with the volume on zero. I don't have a lot of time to deal with it today. Maybe the tubes need to burn in. Right now I'm listening to the RVCs and the hum isn't much of a problem.
  
 I can see the appeal the FDD20s have for some people. There does seem to be more "sparkle". With the HD700s, it's almost too much treble, but that is a very preliminary impression.
  
 I'm really going to have to do more serious listening when I have time to assess FDD20 drivers vs EL3N drivers. It does seem strange that people are having such different experiences with the EL3Ns. I find it hard to believe that is mainly attributable to the DAC. I recognize that DACs can certainly affect the sound, but hardly to the extent that would explain why some love the EL3Ns and other find them very dull.
  
 Anyway, I have orders a second pair of EL3N adapters from Mrs. Xuling and will try the quad approach when I get them. I already have a second pair of EL3Ns. And will be anxious to see how you do with 6 (or 8????)


----------



## Lorspeaker

specially for @UntilThen and @hypnos1


----------



## hypnos1

WELL DONE!!, @DecentLevi...glad you've finally jumped on board - not surprising really, given the onslaught from all of us here, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. But I'm quite sure you won't hold that against us, once she is in your eager arms...and _ears!!_





. And at least you probably won't have to endure _too_ long a period of multiple tube rollings - you've done the sensible thing of letting _us_ find out first!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...wise fellow, LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Now the wait begins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> specially for @UntilThen and @hypnos1




  
 You're too kind, L....great song! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Fervent

Estimated shipment in 7 weeks. I'll be an old(er) man by then!
  
  
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UntilThen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ps even with stock tubes, your HD650 will sing like never before. You will love the HD650 like a new toy.
> 
> pps you don't need fancy RCA cable. Just get plain vanilla ones. If you really must spend then get Audioquest Green RCA interconnects.


 
  
 Decided to go for "performance" RCA plugs anyway and went for the Atlas Element Integra which had recieved favorable reviews.
 Found a very interesting article on the topic which didn't seem very biased in any particular direction.
  
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10827699/Crossed-wires-are-expensive-cables-a-waste-of-money.html


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Yeah. I think that was me)))
> 
> My head-fi journey is a lot more dangerous than my past audiophile journey. The internet didn't exist or was in its infancy back then, so I couldn't order something new with just the click of a mouse. Fortunately, headphone stuff is generally a lot less expensive than speaker based systems.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct.  Perhaps @DecentLevi is partly right re. different _hearing_ - the EL3N does have an incredible bass presence - especially at first, and which does need time to "settle down" to balance out more evenly. Perhaps with some (more bass sensitive) ears, this bass might just be masking the higher frequencies somewhat? And yes, headphones could well have a greater influence than the DAC - except, as I personally found with the ibasso, DAPs would indeed appear to either _help_ or _hinder_ in this regard, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Look forward to your future findings, when you've had plenty more time for burn-in!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(never enough time to devote to Elise, alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 HAPPY LISTENING, nonetheless...


----------



## JazzVinyl

If my DAC sucked wind the other tubes would reveal the fact. My Turntable and stand alone CD player also behave the same, great FDD20 / warm cup of spit in EL3N.

I have had my hearing checked recently, it's normal for someone my age. What I cannot hear is far beyond "musical notes" range (thank goodness).

I can hear and enjoy cymbals in FDD20, they are almost completely missing in my EL3N's.

Sound stage in EL3N is VERTICAL, it goes UP/DOWN, not wide/deep.

I have a bad set of EL3N's, which is unfortunate, but is a fact of life.

No more blaming the DAC, (or my hearing), please.

Cheers All...



.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> This afternoon was very hot.


 
  
 I wish. I'm completely fed up with -20.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> I wish. I'm completely fed up with -20.




So much for Global Warming 'eh?






.


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> So much for Global Warming 'eh?


 
  
 Bring it on! I'm all for it!


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Bring it on! I'm all for it!


 
  
 Careful what you wish for, O...with Global Warming, some get colder/wetter, others hotter/drier - "Are you feeling lucky?"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...!!!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Careful what you wish for, O...with Global Warming, some get colder/wetter, others hotter/drier - "Are you feeling lucky?"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm all for the _global *warming*_* right here* part of it. (Is that better? Probably not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## UntilThen

We're onto Global warming topic now lol.

It was 40 degrees yesterday.

Have to return LR's pair of adapters this morning. So it's goodbye to quad EL3N until my adapters arrive.


----------



## UntilThen

fervent said:


> Decided to go for "performance" RCA plugs anyway and went for the Atlas Element Integra which had recieved favorable reviews.
> 
> Found a very interesting article on the topic which didn't seem very biased in any particular direction.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10827699/Crossed-wires-are-expensive-cables-a-waste-of-money.html




Congrats Fervent. 7 weeks will pass quickly. 

I'm sure there are merits with better RCA cables...and power cords ...and USB cables.

I'm waiting for @B-60 to send me his Cardas power cord. Thanks B you're so generous.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks @Lorspeaker for the song but why no Psy or kpop.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thanks @Lorspeaker for the song but why no Psy or kpop.




What is Psy/Kpop?

Kpop = Korean Pop?


----------



## UntilThen

Psy is Elvis....

Kpop is what O send me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Psy is Elvis....
> 
> Kpop is what O send me.




I don't get it...

But okay 

Cheers to us *LUCKY* ones


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I have to stop talking in riddles. Psy is the famous Korean rock star whose horsey dance gathered 1 billion views on youtube.
Kpop are the new generation of korean pops.

okie dokie I'm off to bid LR farewell at the airport.


----------



## Oskari

Here's some Rimsky-*K*orsakov *pop*.


----------



## Oskari

And here's some *T*-pop:


----------



## puffmtd

@hypnos1......you asked a question a few pages back about the case or deck getting hot during the couple of hours that I had the 5998's as drivers.  No heat to speak of...in fact the body of Elise has never run any cooler.  It's a lot warmer with the stock tubes.


----------



## puffmtd

@mordy......the 6BL7's arrived a few minutes ago.  Wow....these things put out some juice.  My volume knob has never run this low and they sound really punchy with the EL3N's.  Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> And here's some *T*-pop:




And it was very nice....!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I have tried my FDD20s briefly. Unfortunately, I've got a hum problem. I suspect it may be the tubes themselves. The hum is totally independent of the volume level on the Elise. It exists even with the volume at zero. With the Philips miniwatts, the hum is only on one side. The hum with the RVC is less but is on both sides. What is baffling for me is the fact that the hum exists even with the volume on zero. I don't have a lot of time to deal with it today. Maybe the tubes need to burn in. Right now I'm listening to the RVCs and the hum isn't much of a problem.
> 
> I can see the appeal the FDD20s have for some people. There does seem to be more "sparkle". With the HD700s, it's almost too much treble, but that is a very preliminary impression.




Hello @pctazhp - 

Hum with FDD20 is usually caused by the external power supply. Have you tried the third wire to ground?
Run a wire from the negative side of the adapters' juice to the outer rca contact on the back of the Elise...
Generally cures this problem.

Cheers....



.


----------



## mordy

Hi puffmtd,
  
 Glad you like them. However, these tubes open up after some 30 hours with really great bass - you are in for a treat. Although the tubes themselves run hot, my Elise stays just slightly warm after being on some 12 hours +.
  
 Of course, I use socket savers which insulate the tubes from the chassis and save wear and tear on the built in sockets.
  
 So three endorsements so far: JV, Glen and puffmtd.
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## DecentLevi

So guys, since the quad EL3N was already tested, how about trying them on the 'other side', such as EL3N + FDD20 or EL3N + 2031, etc.?
  
 Also @jazzvinyl, maybe if you were to simply swap out the two EL3N's they will happen to work better in the reverse direction (left instead of right). And try UT's tip on bending the adapter contacts outward with a tool


----------



## jerick70

decentlevi said:


> So guys, since the quad EL3N was already tested, how about trying them on the 'other side', such as EL3N + FDD20 or EL3N + 2031, etc.?
> 
> Also @jazzvinyl, maybe if you were to simply swap out the two EL3N's they will happen to work better in the reverse direction (left instead of right). And try UT's tip on bending the adapter contacts outward with a tool


 

 Hi DecentLevi.
  
 Congrats on your Elise.  You are going to really enjoy it!. 
  
 That is a good idea.  I'll try swapping the sockets and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## jerick70

I think I figured out why I'm having less than satisfactory success with the EL3N.  I think it may be the adapters that I have.  Before I put the EL3Ns back in Elise I wiggled the tube connection a bit in the adapter and it seems to sound quite a bit better now.  The original connection seemed pretty tight though so I'm not entirely sure.  I'll experiment some more.  I see why everyone likes the EL3N.  Nice syrupy sound with a huge sound stange and great detail.  You get everything in one package.


----------



## B-60

jerick70 said:


> I think I figured out why I'm having less than satisfactory success with the EL3N.  I think it may be the adapters that I have.  Before I put the EL3Ns back in Elise I wiggled the tube connection a bit in the adapter and it seems to sound quite a bit better now.  The original connection seemed pretty tight though so I'm not entirely sure.  I'll experiment some more.  I see why everyone likes the EL3N.  Nice syrupy sound with a huge sound stange and great detail.  You get everything in one package.


 
 Hey, try contact cleaner, I know they are brand new adapters and still would use deoxit on it or maybe Cardas contact cleaner,
 Cardas contact cleaner works very well and makes big difference by the time you go over all RCA connectors you will see what I am talking about.
 Cheers


----------



## jerick70

b-60 said:


> Hey, try contact cleaner, I know they are brand new adapters and still would use deoxit on it or maybe Cardas contact cleaner,
> Cardas contact cleaner works very well and makes big difference by the time you go over all RCA connectors you will see what I am talking about.
> Cheers


 
  
 Thanks for the tip.  I will give that a try.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
@JazzVinyl you should try reseating your EL3Ns in the adapters and try cleaning contracts like B-60 suggests.  The reseating seems to have made a big difference.


----------



## jerick70

Stairway to Heaven sounds AMAZING with the Chatham/EL3N combo and T1s!


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> @JazzVinyl
> you should try reseating your EL3Ns in the adapters and try cleaning contracts like B-60 suggests.  The reseating seems to have made a big difference.




Thanks, will give it a whirl...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I feel like I have kind of hit a plateau with the tubes.* I'm pretty happy with the EL3Ns in the drivers seat. The power tubes don't seem as important.*


 
 That is a very good observation. EL3N in the drivers seat performs well with Tung Sol 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080 and GE 6AS7GA. I've no doubt it will perform well with other tubes as powers too. It is an amazing driver. It is certainly dominating and influencing the sound.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Hello all, 
  
  
  
 Couldn't post for couple of weeks. Still alive and well. My goto combo currently is EL3N as power and FDD20. i like this combo better than EL3N -5998 combo because of I am using Elise as PREAMP and prefer little forwardness of FDD20 on my home system. I see the latest discovery of 2x2 EL3N and 2x2 6BL7???  NEVER ENDING JOURNEY......SIGH......    and yes I am interested.... HAHA


----------



## whirlwind

All of this talk about the EL3N had me interested in this tube.
  
 Like Glenn, I have ordered a set of tubes and an adapter.
  
 The tubes have arrived safely, not sure how long it will take the adapter from China ?   how long for you guys in the USA ?
  
 I will be using PS Audio Nuwave  > Glenn OTL > HD800
  
 Happy listening, everybody.


----------



## UntilThen

US up to 10 working days. Elsewhere 15 to 25 days.

Happy listening to you too.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> US up to 10 working days. Elsewhere 15 to 25 days.
> 
> Happy listening to you too.


 
 Hey UT,
 I just ordered  two adapters from China and ebay sending me another set of EL3N's , I amssure you seen the picture of the first pair that I got, so this time they checked making sure that red paint is in good condition.
 The plan is to not to go crazy with the tube rolling but please let me know what power tubes that are better then the original tubs but Do not want to spend to much at this time
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I still did not hear from Lukasz since Jan 7,I think he have lots of orders,and that is a good thing.
 Cheers


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello @pctazhp -
> 
> Hum with FDD20 is usually caused by the external power supply. Have you tried the third wire to ground?
> Run a wire from the negative side of the adapters' juice to the outer rca contact on the back of the Elise...
> ...


 

 Thanks JV. Will try this weekend when I have time.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hey UT,
> I just ordered  two adapters from China and ebay sending me another set of EL3N's , I amssure you seen the picture of the first pair that I got, so this time they checked making sure that red paint is in good condition.
> The plan is to not to go crazy with the tube rolling but please let me know what power tubes that are better then the original tubs but Do not want to spend to much at this time
> 
> ...


 
 So you'll have 4 EL3N? 
  
 Just get a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and be done with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EL3N and 5998 with T1 sounds awesome. You'll be pleased.


----------



## UntilThen

Switching from iMac to my new Windows PC with 2Tb of hard disk. Using JRiver to rip in my CDs as FLAC files.
  
 Using EL3N and 5998 with T1 now with the setup above and I'm happy with the sound.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Switching from iMac to my new Windows PC with 2Tb of hard disk. Using JRiver to rip in my CDs as FLAC files.
> 
> Using EL3N and 5998 with T1 now with the setup above and I'm happy with the sound.


 
 No way you are switching to Windows,it is a joke right UT???


----------



## JazzVinyl

Cleaned up my EL3N paddles and reseated them in the adapters.
This did fix the vertical sound stage back to horizontal.

Did not correct the anaemic top end.

Seems that my pair started out okay, went to pretty good for a number of hours 
(when used with Sennheiser 580, which needs the thicker bass) then, settled in
where they are now, with a lopsided frequency response, lots of bass and 
lower mids but missing the high end. 

I am over them, luck to others, that you get a good pair,


Paint also falling off mine, they look like they sound


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> So you'll have 4 EL3N?
> 
> Just get a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and be done with it.
> 
> ...


 
 No, the other two I have to ship back ,all of the paint on one tube is all gone.


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Cleaned up my EL3N paddles and reseated them in the adapters.
> This did fix the vertical sound stage back to horizontal.
> 
> Did not correct the anaemic top end.
> ...


 
 Hey JV,
 Is it like rolled off or not extended?


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> No way you are switching to Windows,it is a joke right UT???


 
 No it's not a joke. iMac or Windows PC both sound good. Using Audirvana on iMac and JRiver on PC. 
  
 ... and no there's no rolling off of treble or high notes on mine. Crystal clear.


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> Hey JV,
> Is it like rolled off or not extended?




Oddly absent, in the area where cymbals live. Cymbals just barely heard.

Bad pair, all of them cannot sound like these, else others would have noticed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Any Jethro Tull fans in here?


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> No it's not a joke. iMac or Windows PC both sound good. Using Audirvana on iMac and JRiver on PC.
> 
> ... and no there's no rolling off of treble or high notes on mine. Crystal clear.


 
 OK, so you are going to windows, before you rip all your CD to your computer you should look in to this bBpoweramp CD Ripper.
 This program will offset the frames for your drive,also would recommend old Sony dvd drive, they have the lowest offset by nature and are the most accurate.
 I will ask my bro about this ,he is the one that set me up with this, what do I know about the windows and computers???Nothing


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> OK, so you are going to windows, before you rip all your CD to your computer you should look in to this bBpoweramp CD Ripper.
> This program will offset the frames for your drive,also would recommend old Sony dvd drive, they have the lowest offset by nature and are the most accurate.
> I will ask my bro about this ,he is the one that set me up with this, what do I now about the windows and computers???Nothing


 
 I'm keeping both iMac and PC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just playing around with JRiver to compare the sound against Audirvana and it's just as good. This software is really fun. I'll probably have to buy the full licence. 
  
 'The Long Road' by Dire Straits is so clear on this PC setup.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Any Jethro Tull fans in here?


 
 Never heard them before but listening to 'Too Old To Rock N Roll, Too Young To Die!!!' by Jethro Tull now on Tidal.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 'The Long Road' by Dire Straits is so clear on this PC setup.




UT...see the song by Uriah Heep "The Wizard" is on Tidal, please...


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Any Jethro Tull fans in here?


 
 Just look him up and the album THICK AS A BRICK sound very good, Now I know what you missing from the top end, the timber of the glockenspiel is very hard to reproduce in digital medium but we both know how much better is on LP


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> Just look him up and the album THICK AS A BRICK sound very good, Now I know what you missing from the top end, the timber of the
> glockenspiel is very hard to reproduce in digital medium but we both know how much better is on LP:tongue_smile:




I do have most the group's music on LP. Wondered if any had the remastered "Passion Play" - which includes a bunch of sessions from a failed album project.

The remastered Passion Play on CD is an instance where the CD does sound a lot better than the original LP.


----------



## UntilThen

Falling asleep... it's 2:30am ...goodnight


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Falling asleep... it's 2:30am ...goodnight




Nitey night!


----------



## hypnos1

puffmtd said:


> @hypnos1......you asked a question a few pages back about the case or deck getting hot during the couple of hours that I had the 5998's as drivers.  No heat to speak of...in fact the body of Elise has never run any cooler.  It's a lot warmer with the stock tubes.


 
  
 That's very interesting, puffmtd...thanks. What powers were you using again?...presumably _not_ 6AS7Gs?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


jerick70 said:


> I think I figured out why I'm having less than satisfactory success with the EL3N.  I think it may be the adapters that I have.  Before I put the EL3Ns back in Elise I wiggled the tube connection a bit in the adapter and it seems to sound quite a bit better now.  The original connection seemed pretty tight though so I'm not entirely sure.  I'll experiment some more.  I see why everyone likes the EL3N.  Nice syrupy sound with a huge sound stange and great detail.  You get everything in one package.


 
  
 Hi j70...that's great news - just couldn't understand at all such different results, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's a real shame that you, @JazzVinyl haven't had quite the same satisfactory results...such a pity, lol...but thankfully you have a hum-free FDD20 set-up, which is top notch, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...HAPPY LISTENING!
  
 It would appear, unfortunately, that the European side-contact tube base can be somewhat temperamental in the sprung contacts of the adapter's socket. Presumably this is down to the previously mentioned slight differences in the distance the tube's 'paddles' extend beyond the base, which may need repeated manipulation to ensure _all_ pins make good contact - or even the careful 'pulling out' of the adapter's sprung clip receptor/s, as shown in previous posts.
  
 And so now, j70, hopefully you'll give the EL3Ns the extended burn-in that should improve things even further, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


citizenlin said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't post for couple of weeks. Still alive and well. My goto combo currently is EL3N as power and FDD20. i like this combo better than EL3N -5998 combo because of I am using Elise as PREAMP and prefer little forwardness of FDD20 on my home system. I see the latest discovery of 2x2 EL3N and 2x2 6BL7???  NEVER ENDING JOURNEY......SIGH......    and yes I am interested.... HAHA


 
  
 Glad you're still with us, CITIZENLIN - was getting a bit worried, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Now then...FDD20 drivers + EL3N powers? - that sounds a very interesting combo...anyone else tried it?...


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> Hello all,
> Couldn't post for couple of weeks. Still alive and well. My goto combo currently is EL3N as power and FDD20. i like this combo better than EL3N -5998 combo because of I am using Elise as PREAMP and prefer little forwardness of FDD20 on my home system. I see the latest discovery of 2x2 EL3N and 2x2 6BL7???  NEVER ENDING JOURNEY......SIGH......    and yes I am interested.... HAHA




Hello CL, glad to have you back!!

We have the dual 6BL7 adapters being made by the ebay seller Mrs Xu Ling, she wrote yesterday and said she was having a new circuit board made for these, would be a few days before she would have them avail.

Since a pair of 6BL7 draw 1/2 amp more current than Elise supplies, will leave it up to each user whether they heat externally or use, as is. The 4 would draw 1 amp total more current tha the amp is designed for.

Glenn says should be fine as is, with the 1/2 amp more than spec on each side. He also says multiple 6BL7 sound better than "any" 6AS7G, should be an exciting experiment. 

I am overjoyed with my amp, and my favorite tube compliment FDD20/5998, so it will be a real eye opener if the multi 6BL7's exceed the sound I presently enjoy.

Cheers....



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi j70...that's great news - just couldn't understand at all such different results, lol!  . It's a real shame that you, @JazzVinyl
> haven't had quite the same satisfactory results...such a pity, lol...but thankfully you have a hum-free FDD20 set-up, which is top notch, of course! :bigsmile_face:  ...HAPPY LISTENING!




Hello H1...

I must have gotten a bum pair of EL3N.

But that's okay, stuff happens. I am in fact completely overjoyed and super happy with my Elise. She is the best thing that ever happened to recorded music!

Via my fave tube compliment, she brings me many hours of joy and comfort. 

Happy Listening, happens, each and every day 

Cheers to us *LUCKY* ones!!


----------



## mordy

Hi citizenlin.
  
 Meanwhile, try it with just 2 6BL7 - you may be surprised at the results.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi citizenlin.
> 
> Meanwhile, try it with just 2 6BL7 - you may be surprised at the results.




And will remind that it is safe to run 6BL7 as powers, but not as drivers unless you heat them externally, as they draw more power than Elise provides, to the driver tubes...


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1...
> 
> I must have gotten a bum pair of EL3N.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey JV,
 Can you let me on to what you running as a main source to Elise?


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> Hey JV,
> Can you let me on to what you running as a main source to Elise?




Why? Do you think my source is to blame for my poor preforming EL3N's?


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Why? Do you think my source is to blame for my poor preforming EL3N's?


 
 No, not at all, I know you spin vinyl how about your digital ,I am just curious,you don't have to answer to that.
 I am not on computer set-up and will only stick to redbook CD's and LP's.


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> No, not at all, I know you spin vinyl how about your digital ,I am just curious,you don't have to answer to that.
> I am not on computer set-up and will only stick to redbook CD's and LP's.




Hello B-60,

It's all in the past 10 or 12 pages. 

Suffice to say I don't stream music and have no computer sharing the desk that Elise sits on.


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello B-60,
> 
> It's all in the past 10 or 12 pages.
> 
> Suffice to say I don't stream music and have no computer sharing the desk that Elise sits on.


 
 NIce!!!
 Have you ever try to stream or direct from computer via USB to DAC?I did that and had no luck with the SQ and that is why I sticking with my CD's and LP's.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I'm keeping both iMac and PC.   Just playing around with JRiver to compare the sound against Audirvana and it's just as good. This software is really fun. I'll probably have to buy the full licence.
> 
> 'The Long Road' by Dire Straits is so clear on this PC setup.




Jriver is an excellent piece of software. I use it on all of my listening computers. The feature set is never ending too. Does a lot more than just play music.


----------



## pctazhp

@JazzVinyl  Just had a chance to try the third wire ground you recommended for the FDD20s. Worked like a charm. Zero hum. Thanks so much.
  
 Now to listen )))


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> NIce!!!
> Have you ever try to stream or direct from computer via USB to DAC?I did that and had no luck with the SQ and that is why I sticking with my CD's and LP's.


 

 Hi B-60.
  
 I know others seem to have good results feeding from computer/laptop via USB to DAC, but I too must admit the SQ didn't match that direct from my Audiolab CD player, or from the media player function of my Oppo BDP 103. And that was after spending more than I would have liked on a "better quality", silver-enhanced USB cable, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and using a rather expensive Dell laptop...no, _very_ expensive one!!). May have been able to "tweak" it a good bit more, but don't see the point, given the Oppo and Audiolab can handle 24/192kHz...).
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @JazzVinyl  Just had a chance to try the third wire ground you recommended for the FDD20s. Worked like a charm. Zero hum. Thanks so much.
> 
> Now to listen )))


 

 Great news pct....we don't want the dreaded hum spoiling your enjoyment, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...and am glad you didn't have to run LR's marathon to get there - or connect to a _*lightning rod!!!*_


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> NIce!!!
> Have you ever try to stream or direct from computer via USB to DAC?I did that and had no luck with the SQ and that is why I sticking with my CD's and LP's.




Hello B-60, yes, I have done that successfully. But have a couple USB dac's that sit idle, I like DAP's and taking my music on the go. Listen at home, car and work.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> @JazzVinyl
> Just had a chance to try the third wire ground you recommended for the FDD20s. Worked like a charm. Zero hum. Thanks so much.
> 
> Now to listen )))




Very good, pctazhp...

Enjoy the FDD20's...they are outstanding tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> UT...see the song by Uriah Heep "The Wizard" is on Tidal, please...


 
 Didn't get to try this last night. Or rather at 2:30am. I am now listening to it. I have a CD version of this album which is also on Tidal. I had the CD ripped into my hard disk as flac file via JRiver. Compared JRiver and Tidal HiFi (both at 16/44.1) version and was pleasantly surprised that the JRiver version sounded better, clearer and more detail. @jerick70 have to agree with you that JRiver is an excellent software. It's the sound quality that I'm concerned, not so much the features of which there are a lot. I'm sold. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Anyway, that's not the primary aim of this exercise. This album 'Celebration' by Uriah Heep have a lot of tracks with cymbals in the background. They are soft but distinctly heard. So for this exercise, I use 4 sets of drivers to check out the cymbals. C3G, Raytheon 7N7 and Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome base. I pick these 3 because I know they are very clear sounding as opposed to RCA 6SN7GT VT231 Smoke glass that is very warm and bassy. The 4th driver for this test is EL3N.
  
 Using the song 'Wizard' as the cymbals seems softer than the other tracks, I could hear the cymbals distinctly in the background with all 4 drivers. C3G is the clearest and it's no surprise but cymbals are still heard on EL3N, 7N7 and Sylvania 6SN7gtb with equal degree of soft clarity. One important thing to note is that the bass of EL3N has more weight than the other 3 drivers. I'm using 5998 as powers, listening with T1.
  
 Out of this exercise, I'm very happy with EL3N performance. Clear treble, engaging mids and lovely bass. The other 3 drivers are nice in their own presentation. Elise does seem to sound good with any tubes rolled in with varying degree of presentations of course.
  
 Wow, that's some work first thing in the morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Satisfied now, I can continue ripping in all 300 CDs as flac files into my hard disk and continue to enjoy music at the same time via JRiver. My iMac will take a back seat for now while I play with this new toy. 
  
 Cheers to all you LUCKY folks.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Didn't get to try this last night. Or rather at 2:30am. I am now listening to it. I have a CD version of this album which is also on Tidal. I had the CD ripped into my hard disk as flac file via JRiver. Compared JRiver and Tidal HiFi (both at 16/44.1) version and was pleasantly surprised that the JRiver version sounded better, clearer and more detail. @jerick70 have to agree with you that JRiver is an excellent software. It's the sound quality that I'm concerned, not so much the features of which there are a lot. I'm sold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sound quality is everything, I agree.  But there is one feature that I couldn't live without.  The DLNA server is a pretty cool feature...  Stream your music library from anywhere.  I wouldn't do it over the internet though, it's not the most secure way to do streaming like that.  Here's a link to set it up the DLNA server:  https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DLNA  You just have to have a local network.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Sound quality is everything, I agree.  But there is one feature that I couldn't live without.  The DLNA server is a pretty cool feature...  Stream your music library for anywhere.  I wouldn't do it over the internet though, it's not the most secure way to do streaming like that.  Here's a link to set it up the DLNA server:  https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DLNA  You just have to have a local network.


 
 Slow response on head-fi now. Traffic congestions here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That seems fun to experiment with. Will give it a go later but I primarily listen to music with my headphone.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Didn't get to try this last night. Or rather at 2:30am. I am now listening to it. I have a CD version of this album which is also on Tidal. I had the CD ripped into my hard disk as flac file via JRiver. Compared JRiver and Tidal HiFi (both at 16/44.1) version and was pleasantly surprised that the JRiver version sounded better, clearer and more detail.




The reason I asked was for you to notice a peculiarity of the mix on this song "The Wizard"...

The chorus is "He had a cloak of gold and eyes of fire"...

Listen from the beginning, when the first chorus comes in, a harmony voice is heard in the right ear...

He sings: "He had a cloak of Gold and ey....."

He is then rudely removed from the mix as the sound engineer turns his mike down to zero and he is gone.

Have heard this song a million times as a kid...listening via Elise/Headphones was the first time I ever heard this detail.

Check it out


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Slow response on head-fi now. Traffic congestions here?
> 
> That seems fun to experiment with. Will give it a go later but I primarily listen to music with my headphone. :atsmile:




There's always headphones on your Android phone, iPhone, tablet, or iPod/iTouch. The DLNA server connects to TVs, DVD Players, Ect... too.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> The reason I asked was for you to notice a peculiarity of the mix on this song "The Wizard"...
> 
> The chorus is "He had a cloak of gold and eyes of fire"...
> 
> ...


 
 More work before breakfast ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ok just listen several times again but I heard the singer beyond those words...all of it..no cut off
 *"The Wizard"​*​  
 He was the wizard of a thousand kings
 And I chanced to meet him one night wandering
 He told me tales and he drank my wine
 Me and my magic man kind of feeling fine

*He had a cloak of gold
 And eyes of fire
 And as he spoke I felt a deep desire
 To free the world of its fear and pain*
*And help the people to feel free again*


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> There's always headphones on your Android phone, iPhone, tablet, or iPod/iTouch. The DLNA server connects to TVs, DVD Players, Ect... too.


 
 Are you kidding me? There's only one way for me to listen to music now...that is with T1 on this tube amp or some gorgeous sounding tube amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do enjoy watching the Australian Open Tennis on TV though...it's going on now. How do you do both simultaneously?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> More work before breakfast ...
> 
> Ok just listen several times again but I heard the singer beyond those words...all of it..no cut off
> [rule]*"The Wizard"*​​
> ...





I have a friend who has all nine versions...and he said the harmony voice gets cut off right as he sings "Eyes"...in all versions.

Not talking about the main singer, talking about a harmony voice in right cup on that first chorus.

Go have breakfast!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I have a friend who has all nine versions...and he said the harmony voice gets cut off right as he sings "Eyes"...in all versions.
> 
> Not talking about the main singer, talking about a harmony voice in right cup on that first chorus.
> 
> Go have breakfast!!


 
 Ah I see...the harmony voice...yes he's 'cut off' after 
  
_He had a cloak of gold​​ And eyes of fire​_  
but I heard him again on one word after that I think... ​  
_And as he spoke I felt a deep* desire*_​  
*I think he wasn't harmonising well so they cut him off !!! ​*  
Seriously I can harmonise better than that. ​


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Are you kidding me? There's only one way for me to listen to music now...that is with T1 on this tube amp or some gorgeous sounding tube amps.
> 
> I do enjoy watching the Australian Open Tennis on TV though...it's going on now. How do you do both simultaneously? :etysmile:




It would be difficult to listen simultainiously. My ears don't work that way a least. And I'm not aware of a smart TV that will let you listen to both at the same time.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> It would be difficult to listen simultainiously. My ears don't work that way a least. And I'm not aware of a smart TV that will let you listen to both at the same time.


 
 There's one thing you must do simultaneously. Listen with your headphone and yet be able to hear when your wife calls you... or else no dinner !!! 
  
 Breakfast time !!!


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> There's one thing you must do simultaneously. Listen with your headphone and yet be able to hear when your wife calls you... or else no dinner !!!
> 
> Breakfast time !!!


 

 LOL!!!  Yeah or you'll be sleeping on the couch that night.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ah I see...the harmony voice...yes he's 'cut off' after
> 
> _He had a cloak of gold​​And eyes of fire​_
> but I heard him again on one word after that I think... ​
> ...




Yeah I think he made must have a mistake on "of fire"....instead of correcting, it they rudely pull it!!

SLOPPY


----------



## UntilThen

Patricia Barber on 'Blue Cafe' now with C3G and 5998. Sounding real good. You MUST have a pair of C3G and those golden adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Patricia Barber on 'Blue Cafe' now with C3G and 5998. Sounding real good. You MUST have a pair of C3G and those golden adapters.




Golden adapters for a Golden Voice! Go Patricia!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Friday night Jazz!!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QF3HN1Utkos[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ever heard of Augustus Pablo? :

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2KCsG6kt5w#t=61[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is a local band...will play a hall here next Friday night...I will be there!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk_zcG-k494#t=216[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

One for UT's girl singer collection 

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR108kwNo4[/VIDEO]


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> This is a local band...will play a hall here next Friday night...I will be there!


 

 Nice smooth sound.  I really like them.  Do they have any albums out?


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> Nice smooth sound.  I really like them.  Do they have any albums out?




Info here:

http://www.colintrusedell.com/Colin_Trusedell/HOME.html


----------



## DecentLevi

b-60 said:


> No way you are switching to Windows,it is a joke right UT???


 
 In case the word's not out, Windows 10 totally revives the PC! I've yet to have one BSOD / crash and that's coming from someone who has hundreds of programs, some of them wonky.
  
 So @UntilThen do you still consider quad EL3N the best? Also have you tried them with dual FDD20 or 20/31 yet? 
 (sorry if already answered just send me the link to it)


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> In case the word's not out, Windows 10 totally revives the PC! I've yet to have one BSOD / crash and that's coming from someone who has hundreds of programs, some of them wonky.
> 
> So @UntilThen do you still consider quad EL3N the best? Also have you tried them with dual FDD20 or 20/31 yet?
> (sorry if already answered just send me the link to it)


 
 Let me answer the easy question first Mr Levi. There are no best tubes for Elise. They are all good. Have a range of tubes and know their tone well. Then you can pair them up to give you the desired sound. For instance, right now I've selected Fotons 6N8C as drivers. They are one of the cheapest tubes around. They have a darkish warm tone, needs no adapters. I've also selected the Mullard 6080 which is a bright sounding power tube. Ok warmish bright. Together this is a lovely sound for not much money. In fact, I'll be seeking out more 6SN7s. You can say I've come a full circle. Using the drivers that were intended for Elise. I'm trying to steer away from 12V or fancy pants voltage regulators. Enough of science experiments. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm not kidding you. Elise does sound very good with practically all the tubes that I've covered as well as other contributors here. I would urge you on a path of discovery for yourself. That is the greatest joy which only you can discover for yourself.
  
 Now for the controversial part. Windows 10 good did you say? Are you sure? Are you very sure? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I had to reinstate to Windows 8.1 for 2 computers at home because Windows 10 became too slow and these are almost new PCs with up to date parts, solid CPU and graphics cards. Enough RAM to start a party. So I'll stay away from WIndows 10 for another year and see how they go. I would have preferred to stay on Windows 7. Just a simple, robust operating system, nothing fanciful. I don't need touch screen or voice commands. Just a good solid music box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 p/s there are no crashes with Windows 8.1....yet.


----------



## UntilThen

Now what music did JV and JR dedicate to me?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> One for UT's girl singer collection


 
 This is very good.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 'I'll do the laundry if you pay the bills'
 'I'll listen to the music if you buy the tubes'
  
 awesome.


----------



## jerick70

Here's a Friday night tribute to the late great Charlie Haden.....


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I can do a comparison between Audirvana Plus and JRiver by just hooking the USB cable to either the iMac or PC. Both sound very good. Bitperfect.


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> This is a local band...will play a hall here next Friday night...I will be there!


 

 Nice smooth sound.  I really like them.  Do they have any albums out?


jazzvinyl said:


> Info here:
> 
> http://www.colintrusedell.com/Colin_Trusedell/HOME.html


 

 Much appreciated.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Alright I can do a comparison between Audirvana Plus and JRiver by just hooking the USB cable to either the iMac or PC. Both sound very good. Bitperfect.


 

 I've not had the pleasure to listen with Audivana.  Jriver is most excellent though.


----------



## jerick70

@UntilThen here's another female vocal for your collection....


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> @UntilThen here's another female vocal for your collection....


 
 This is for 1am listening.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi this is the winning combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No adapters.
  

  
 These are my 1st pair of tubes bought for Elise way before she arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

Joking insofar as winning combo is concerned. I wanted to know what it's like to live with 6SN7 and 6080 / 6AS7G again. It sounded pretty good. I am running through all my tubes again. Slowly as I listen to music.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Joking insofar as winning combo is concerned. I wanted to know what it's like to live with 6SN7 and 6080 / 6AS7G again. It sounded pretty good. I am running through all my tubes again. Slowly as I listen to music.


 
 I'm just beginning to appreciate how many tubes I accumulated while I waited for my Elise. I think every time someone here mentioned a tube I just ordered it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know my hearing is not what it used to be and I don't always hear the dramatic differences between tubes that you guys can. Right now I'm listening to Rapsco MR 6N7GT drivers/Parts Express 6AS7GA power tubes and, except for being pretty microphonic, I'm enjoying it a lot. The common denominator is the Elise which seems to handle an amazing variety of these antique "bulbs" (as my wife calls them) we throw at it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm just beginning to appreciate how many tubes I accumulated while I waited for my Elise. I think every time someone here mentioned a tube I just ordered it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Your hearing's absolutely fine. Elise does sound good with any tubes we throw at it. With prolong listening, you'll get to know your tubes well and then you can appreciate their differences. Interesting differences. Elise can be adapted to more tubes than I can ever imagine.
  
 Sorry we make you buy so many tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I don't like running 6080 because it generates so much heat in Elise. Chassis feels hot after an hour.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Your hearing's absolutely fine. Elise does sound good with any tubes we throw at it. With prolong listening, you'll get to know your tubes well and then you can appreciate their differences. Interesting differences. Elise can be adapted to more tubes than I can ever imagine.
> 
> Sorry we make you buy so many tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well I need someone to blame for all these glass things I now have sitting on my desk)))
  
 Actually, the 6080 is one pair I've set aside and probably won't use again. It didn't sound that good to me.


----------



## pctazhp

Headphones, anyone????


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Well I need someone to blame for all these glass things I now have sitting on my desk)))
> 
> Actually, the 6080 is one pair I've set aside and probably won't use again. It didn't sound that good to me.


 

 Mr Pct, I'm curious why you don't like the 6080. It's perfectly fine not to like it but I want to know why. Did it sound bright to you with your headphone? Not as relax, warm and cosy as the GE 6AS7GA? Tell me in your own words. I'm all ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Aside from looking like...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Mr Pct, I'm curious why you don't like the 6080. It's perfectly fine not to like it but I want to know why. Did it sound bright to you with your headphone? Not as relax, warm and cosy as the GE 6AS7GA? Tell me in your own words. I'm all ears.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah. It's not the sexiest looking tube))
  
 Fair question. I'll go back an listen to it a little later and let you know. Unfortunately, I don't take good notes like you do.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I go from Sylvania 6sn7gtb / Mullard 6080 to Visseaux 6n7g / Chatham 6as7g and it's like stepping into Madison Garden from your local school concert.
  
 Listening to the same song, 'Private Investigations' Alchemy: Dire Straits Live(Remastered), song is full blown now. More upfront and the electric guitar will electrify you. Drums will pound you senseless. Mark Knopfler's drone will make you sit up and cast your daily cares away. This is what Visseaux 6n7g and Chatham 6as7g does to you.
  
 Sadly there's no going back to 6sn7 for me.
  
 In case you've forgotten how good looking the Visseaux 6n7g is... this is with 5998 from a while back.
  

  
@pctazhp try out your Chatham 6520. I think you'll like it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp try out your Chatham 6520. I think you'll like it.


 
  
 Will do later today )))


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mine calls them "bulbs" too...."why you always changing those bulbs".


----------



## jerick70

Hey Everyone,
  
@UntilThen you'll be happy to read this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's time for some short listening impressions with the Audeze LCD 2.2 (AKA LCD 2F).  My audio chain is PC with Jriver -> Audioquest Forest USB -> Yulong Sabre DA-8 II -> Audioquest Sidewinder RCAs -> Elise.  I'm listening with the Chatham 6AS7G and EL3N tube combo.
  
 1) This Elise combo really opens up the sound stage of the LCD 2.2.  The depth and breadth is opened up considerably!  This is a huge boon to LCD 2 owners and makes the Elise very desirable for the sound stage lovers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The right to left and left to right synth cuts throughout Depeche Modes "People are People" are perfect examples of this.  You can feel the texture and hard edges as they pass in front of you. In the opening piano solo of Diana Krall's "Almost Blue" You can feel the constraints of the recording studio Diana is working in.  
 2) The bass slam is AMAZING!!!!  I've not heard the bass on my LCD 2 sound so deep.  I can feel the bass notes in "Sail" by Awolnation in my toes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 3) I always use Diana Krall's "Almost Blue" to gauge detail reproduction of a headphone amp combo.  This Elise combo competes head to head with many SS amps I've listened to.  The reverberation of the hammer strikes on the piano at the opening sound clear and articulate with the added ambiance of the lush tube sound.  The clear reproduction of the sounds of her breaths as she sings, hit home that the Elise isn't your dad's tube amp.  Elise is all about pure unadulterated precision with a nice helping of that lovely tube warmth.   
  
 The Elise is the real deal! If you own a pair of Audeze LCD-2.2s I highly recommend this amp.  
  
 -Jeff


----------



## TomNC

@jerick70
  
     Great impressions! Could you list some of the SS amps you were referring to? It helps i there are amps that I can relate to for cross-reference. Thanks.


----------



## jerick70

tomnc said:


> @jerick70
> 
> 
> Great impressions! Could you list some of the SS amps you were referring to? It helps i there are amps that I can relate to for cross-reference. Thanks.




Hey TomNC,

Thanks for the kind words. I would be happy to list them and give a small comparison to the Elise.

1) Gustard H10 w/ Burson v5 SS Op-amps all around. A bit brighter than the Elise. instrument separation is more refined.
2) Violectric V200 w/ AD797ANZ and AD823ANZ Op-amp upgrades. Very close to each other when the Elise has the stock Tung-sol driver tubes. Voicing is very similar. The Elise with the EL3N has a bigger sound stage and cavernous bass.
3) Burson Conductor Virtuoso. Much brighter. 

I've owned other SS amps but I wouldn't put them in the same league as any of these amps.

Hope this helps. 

-Jeff


----------



## TomNC

Yes. Very helpful information. Though I have not heard any of them, I've read good things about the V200 in the context of v281 discussion. My reference SS amp is the Taurus Mkii which I have listened to carefully for several times. I am satisfied with the Taurus in clarity, imaging precision, and speed, but have reservation regarding to the brightness in trebles when pairing with HD800. 
  
 Sounds like the Elise, particularly with tube rolling, can do well many things a good SS amp does without the excessive treble brightness.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## jerick70

tomnc said:


> Yes. Very helpful information. Though I have not heard any of them, I've read good things about the V200 in the context of v281 discussion. My reference SS amp is the Taurus Mkii which I have listened to carefully for several times. I am satisfied with the Taurus in clarity, imaging precision, and speed, but have reservation regarding to the brightness in trebles when pairing with HD800.
> 
> Sounds like the Elise, particularly with tube rolling, can do well many things a good SS amp does without the excessive treble brightness.
> 
> Thanks.




I've not listened to the HD800. I do own the Beyerdynamics T1 Gen1. I've heard they are similar sounding headphones. The Elise will tame the treble monster your dealing with for sure and sound incredible to boot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> Here's a Friday night tribute to the late great Charlie Haden.....




Thank you for this. I listen to Haden so often that I forget that he is no longer with us.

:rolleyes:


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> @JazzVinyl
> Just had a chance to try the third wire ground you recommended for the FDD20s. Worked like a charm. Zero hum. Thanks so much.
> 
> Now to listen )))




Your welcome...and note it was H1 who first figured out that the external power supply has to be grounded to the same ground as the Elise to eliminate the hum...he passed the info on to the rest of us.

Thank you...H1.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> @UntilThen you'll be happy to read this
> 
> ...


 

_You did not tailor this review to make me happy I hope._ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










  (Joke)
  
 Well about time !!! I've been waiting for a more detailed impressions of Elise with your LCD2.2 since Christmas last year !!! Even Santa has gone back to North Pole after delivering Elise to you.
  
 It's a good writeup. Short and sweet. Enough to hold people's interest. 5 things strikes me here.
  
 1. You like the sound from Elise with *EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G*.
  
 2. You like the sound above through your LCD2.2.... even to give it a highly recommended ratings.
 (Looks like I'm not the only one to give Elise a big tick of approval with planar magnetics. I thought HE560 sounded superb with Elise too.)
  
 3. You think soundstage really opens up with this combo on your LCD2.2.
  
 4. You think this combo makes your LCD2.2 bass sound even better.
 (We all love being slammed by bass.  )
  
 5. You think Elise is as detailed sounding as some of those respected ss amps that you owned.
  
 Headphones preference are very personal. I've always respected people's choice of headphones. It's interesting that despite your love for the LCD2.2 sound, you still went ahead and bought the T1, which I've heard you say sounded good with Elise. I have never heard the LCD2.2 but I know they are as different as chalk and cheese. T1's soundstage will be larger and LCD2.2 for their famed mid bass. I think one can live with both of these headphones. Would be a very good contrast, each very pleasing in their own ways.
  
 Interestingly here in 2012, they were already debating on the T1 and LCD2.2. Now that you've both, you will know personally about each of those headphones through Elise, as well as with your other ss amps.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/596582/beyerdynamics-t1-vs-lcd-2-which-one-is-a-better-all-rounders
  
 ps... I got up this morning and swapped my tubes back to EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G before reading this review. I was using the Visseaux 6N7G last night, so it's just swapping the driver tubes. Much as I love the sound from the 'Joybringer' aka Visseaux 6N7G, I much prefer the sound from EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

I think this is a great song if not the greatest. James Taylor on backup vocals duties, can you imagine that. This brings back all the yesteryears.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I think this is a great song if not the greatest. James Taylor on backup vocals duties, can you imagine that. This brings back all the yesteryears.




 Thanks UT. Such a great recording. It brings back so many memories I wouldn't even know where to begin. So I won't ))
  
 I do want to say that James Taylor has a brother Hugh. Hugh and his wife own and run an inn on Martha's Vineyard. http://www.outermostinn.com/
  
 I never saw the inn, but I had the pleasure in August of 1997 of spending an evening with my then wife and my son and his then fiance on a sunset cruise with just the 4 of us and Hugh on his catamaran sailboat. It was quite an experience that I'll never forget. Heard a lot of great stories about James and Carly Simon. Who knows if they were true or not))) I remember it was August, 1997, because 2 days after the cruise we heard the news about the death of Princess Diana.
  
 Anyway, today I popped in the TS 6520s and have been listening to them all afternoon with the Philips miniwatt FDD20s. Very special sound. But much too soon for me to provide any meaningful observations.


----------



## UntilThen

That's great past memories Pct. Do you feel soft and tender now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Martha's Vineyard... must be wonderful on Hugh's sailboat.
  
 Simon was former wife of James. I won't talk about Diana... too sad.
  
 1997... what was I doing then? .... ah contracting and working my butt off. Seems like loooooong ago. 1998 I bought my Axis speakers from Abbey Road studios.... nah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Philips Miniwatt and Chatham 6520 is a great combo. One of the best, if not the best until.... I am smitten by the red tubes.
  
 Here's a pic of it....
  
 Will try this in a minute...


----------



## UntilThen

Ooooo yeah, magic's back with FDD20 and 6520. It's easy to love this. Had to take out my 12V and tubes again. I had packed it away .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Alright a livelier song to cheer you up


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Alright a livelier song to cheer you up


 
  
 How did I get the urge to post this?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> How did I get the urge to post this?


 
 A very young Phil Collins...thanks


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> A very young Phil Collins...thanks


 
  
 80s, eh? How's this?


----------



## mordy

Looking for a cool running amp? 6080 tubes making the amp too hot?
 How about  an amp running as cool as cucumber? Well, almost. The side panels of my amp are cool; the transformer housing barely warm. I can leave my amp on for many hours without worry.
  
 The sound is glorious after some 80 hours on the EL3N and some 30 hours on the 6BL7 RCA tubes. The bass is extraordinary. I can heartily recommend the 6BL7 tubes as power tubes with EL3N. Still easily available at very low prices.
  
 Worth trying....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Looking for a cool running amp? 6080 tubes making the amp too hot?
> How about  an amp running as cool as cucumber? Well, almost. The side panels of my amp are cool; the transformer housing barely warm. I can leave my amp on for many hours without worry.
> 
> The sound is glorious after some 80 hours on the EL3N and some 30 hours on the 6BL7 RCA tubes. The bass is extraordinary. I can heartily recommend the 6BL7 tubes as power tubes with EL3N. Still easily available at very low prices.
> ...


 
  
 Details please!
  
 Two EL3Ns as drivers? Two 6BL7s as powers?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> 80s, eh? How's this?


 
 Oskari, it says this video is not available in my country.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Details please!
> 
> Two EL3Ns as drivers? Two 6BL7s as powers?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I shall test it when mine arrive and I'll let you know how 6BL7 compares to 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G and even GE 6AS7GA.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Yes and yes - two EL3N as drivers and two 6BL7 as power tubes. There are some 350 listings for 6BL7 tubes on eBay today - several listings of pairs with auctions starting at around $10 shipped.
  
 JV: Any news on the adapters for dual 6BL7 tubes?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Oskari, it says this video is not available in my country


 
  




  
 Does this work?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Just remember that with the 6BL7 the first impression isn't conclusive - they need about 30 hours of burn-in for the bass to really open up.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Just remember that with the 6BL7 the first impression isn't conclusive - they need about 30 hours of burn-in for the bass to really open up.


 

 Yup noted. I'm hoping dual 6BN7 works well in Elise. Likewise dual EL3N...as powers.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Does this work?


 
 Ok this works.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Just remember that with the 6BL7 the first impression isn't conclusive - they need about 30 hours of burn-in for the bass to really open up.




Mordy, do you know what the mu factor is for 6BL7's?


----------



## mordy

The amplification factor is 15. A 6AS7/6080 is 2; a 5998 5.5.
  
 With tubes other than the EL3N the 6BL7 seemed to run out of steam, but with the EL3N it is delicious.
  
 Don't know why it is like this. There must be more to it than just numbers and measurements. I seem to remember reading that an all tube 60W power amp could play as loud as a 100W solid state amp.....


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ooooo yeah, magic's back with FDD20 and 6520. It's easy to love this. Had to take out my 12V and tubes again. I had packed it away ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 I love Linda. She's from Tucson and had an amazing career, but I remember her most for her early Stone Poneys days. Sadly, she has Parkinsons disease and can no longer sing. But you accomplished your purpose with that song in cheering me up)) Can't stop listening to the FDD20s/6520s.


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> 80s, eh? How's this?




 OMG!!! I can't believe there is another living human being who remembers the Bangles


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> Thank you for this. I listen to Haden so often that I forget that he is no longer with us.
> 
> :rolleyes:




Your very welcome. Is to bad such great people pass away.


----------



## jerick70

pctazhp said:


> OMG!!! I can't believe there is another living human being who remembers the Bangles




Oh I remember them well. They were played on MTV all the time when I was young.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> The amplification factor is 15. A 6AS7/6080 is 2; a 5998 5.5.
> 
> With tubes other than the EL3N the 6BL7 seemed to run out of steam, but with the EL3N it is delicious.
> 
> Don't know why it is like this. There must be more to it than just numbers and measurements. I seem to remember reading that an all tube 60W power amp could play as loud as a 100W solid state amp.....


 
 Mordy. I get lost keeping up with all these tubes)) I know you guys are working on a dual EBL7 adapter. But do two single EBL7s require adapters? Thanks in advance.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> _You did not tailor this review to make me happy I hope._   :atsmile:   (Joke)
> 
> Well about time !!! I've been waiting for a more detailed impressions of Elise with your LCD2.2 since Christmas last year !!! Even Santa has gone back to North Pole after delivering Elise to you.
> 
> ...




Lol. I was writing this for everyone to let them know how great Elise is.

Yep short and sweet, I'm that kind of guy. I think you hit the nail on the head with your synopsis of my mini-review. The moral of the story is the Elise compliments the LCD2s very well and vice versa. Together they fix quite a few of the shortcomings that the LCD2 has.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 The 6BL7 does not require any adapter to be used as a power tube - just plug and play.
  
 (If you use it as a driver tube you will need an adapter for an external power source since the Elise cannot handle 1.5A for driver tubes.)


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Lol. I was writing this for everyone to let them know how great Elise is.
> 
> Yep short and sweet, I'm that kind of guy. I think you hit the nail on the head with your synopsis of my mini-review. The moral of the story is the *Elise compliments the LCD2s very well* and vice versa. Together they fix quite a few of the shortcomings that the LCD2 has.


 

 Who would have known......   now I've work to out how to fit a LCD2.2 in my headphones inventory.
  
No hum or distortion on high volume on your LCD2.2 with Elise ?


----------



## Suuup

This EL3N has my mind twisted. I don't know what to say. I've been sitting here, swapping between the EL3N and my 6N7G. EL3N certainly has more bass, but I personally find the amount of bass from my 6N7G to be just perfect. This is just my preference, so it's nothing against the EL3N. It seems to me, however, that the 6N7G is much clearer than the EL3N. I think I have around ~15 hours on the EL3N, but I haven't kept track. 
  
 There's something special about the EL3N that I can't put my finger on though. I have no idea what it is.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> This EL3N has my mind twisted. I don't know what to say. I've been sitting here, swapping between the EL3N and my 6N7G. EL3N certainly has more bass, but I personally find the amount of bass from my 6N7G to be just perfect. This is just my preference, so it's nothing against the EL3N. It seems to me, however, that the 6N7G is much clearer than the EL3N. I think I have around ~15 hours on the EL3N, but I haven't kept track.
> 
> *There's something special about the EL3N that I can't put my finger on though.* I have no idea what it is.


 
 It's red 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it's good you have preferences. There are way too many tubes that I like. I keep rotating them. These are my mains - EL3N, FDD20, Mazda, Visseaux, Fivre 6N7G, Mullard ECC31 and C3g. The joy of owning Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's red
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I really should get another FDD20 adapter. I only bought one for the 2031 combo. 
 Edit: Oh wow, it ends up being 30$ for the adapter. Why is this so much more expensive compared to the rest?


----------



## UntilThen

Yes you should. I prefer 2 FDD20 over 2031. I still have on 2 FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G for most of today. Got the spring clips out for a better fit and the Philips Miniwatt looks and sound nice.
  
 I paid $45.80 for a pair. It's now $21.07 each.... FDD20 adapters.
  
 ps...where did you see $30 ?


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yes you should. I prefer 2 FDD20 over 2031. I still have on 2 FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G for most of today. Got the spring clips out for a better fit and the Philips Miniwatt looks and sound nice.
> 
> I paid $45.80 for a pair. It's now $21.07 each.... FDD20 adapters.
> 
> ps...where did you see $30 ?


 
 30 was including shipping.


----------



## UntilThen

That's still cheaper than dual EL3N adapters. $85 a pair including shipping.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Who would have known......   now I've work to out how to fit a LCD2.2 in my headphones inventory.
> 
> No hum or distortion on high volume on your LCD2.2 with Elise ?




No hum at all. They have been perfect together.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> No hum at all. They have been perfect together.


 

 That's a real bonus. Time for you to try 6N7G and FDD20...and you can decide which drivers you like better.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> That's a real bonus. Time for you to try 6N7G and FDD20...and you can decide which drivers you like better.




I have a pair of Phillips miniwatt FDD20s already. I'm waiting to purchase the adapters so it will be a little while before I can try them.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I have a pair of Phillips miniwatt FDD20s already. I'm waiting to purchase the adapters so it will be a little while before I can try them.


 

 Nice !!! You need to buy a 12V AC power supply. This is a 230V version. Find a similar 120V for yourself. Get one with 3pin grounded. I mean US plug. Input is 100-240V.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221815437071?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Don't slice off the tip. Get these connectors or find ones that are better. JV has those.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251382838983?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=550311435438&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> This EL3N has my mind twisted. I don't know what to say. I've been sitting here, swapping between the EL3N and my 6N7G. EL3N certainly has more bass, but I personally find the amount of bass from my 6N7G to be just perfect. This is just my preference, so it's nothing against the EL3N. It seems to me, however, that the 6N7G is much clearer than the EL3N. I think I have around ~15 hours on the EL3N, but I haven't kept track.
> 
> There's something special about the EL3N that I can't put my finger on though. I have no idea what it is.


 
  
 Hi Suuup.
  
 I hear you on your early days 'confusion' re. this tube, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. On first listen, coming straight from the incredibly clear 20/31 combo, I was in a bit of a state of shock. And certainly in two minds - for a short while. There was this mass of sound that was exciting, but also slightly 'confusing' to me too. The bass/lower mids hit between the eyes(ears!), and certainly masked the higher frequencies and finer details. But I soon felt there was something very special about it, and so crossed fingers and toes that burn-in would do its usual magic and calm my fears.
  
 To cut my previous progress reports short, as burn-in continues :  the lower register eases; the upper begins to shine; soundstage widens/becomes more 3D holographic; the whole presentation opens nicely to allow much more detail across the entire frequency range to come through, along with a greater clarity and overall balance/cohesion...ie. its _true_ magic, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 And I must admit that this took a good bit longer than I at first thought...or should I say, _*more*_ improvements came than I expected - way past the 40hrs mark -  even after my doubts had been completely banished...
  
 So hopefully you might just find the same, S...you are still only in the early stages, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(ps. but whatever, we all have our own preferences anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
  
 And OMG guys....Carly Simon/ Linda Ronstadt et al....you've taken me right back to my wonderful days on the Princess Cruise ships, based in California - how can you be so *cruel??!!*








....but I still love y'all...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

I took this picture on the 8th of Jan but didn't post it. Was too busy with other combos. Since CL talk about it, I decided to have another listen again. Not surprising it sounded good. 2 of the most talked about tubes on this thread. They wear the French colours of blue, red and white. Sound is sparkling clear. I test a lot with 'Private Investigations' by Dire Straits these days. I know the electric guitar and drum sound well by now. I don't think this is better or worst than EL3N/5998 or FDD20/5998, the latter having a more defined and leaner sound, which appears more precise but the other combos have more layers. It's different presentations. Check it out. I think it's very interesting and I like it. Up there with the best sound I've heard from all these tubes.
  

  
 This is swapped around and the gain is more. Sound a bit louder for the same volume on Elise. Just as sparkling clear and with very good definition. The electric guitar sound sharp and has bite. The drums are solid, controlled and very impactful. Very interesting. I sat listening and just enjoyed the song.
  

  
 ps..notice where my volume is at with T1 on both combos. That's quite loud.


----------



## pctazhp

I've made a list of all the performers I've had the pleasure to hear in person. As far as I can remember, they are: Frank Sinatra, Judy Collins, Robert Goulet (in Camelot on Broadway), Elvis Presley (about a year before he died), John Denver, Jerry Lee Lewis, Gary "US" Bonds (I'm sure no one has ever heard of him!), Van Halen (took my then teenage son to a concert), the Eagles, the Righteous Brothers (April Stevens - "Teach Me Tiger" - opened for them), Flatt and Scruggs (played a lot of the Carter Family songs - June Carter Cash's family), Tanya Tucker (Glen Campbell's girlfriend - I know-who is Glen Campbell???), The Kingston Trio (twice), The Lettermen, Ray Price (what an amazing performer and song writer), Peter, Paul and Mary, Bob Hope (Christmas Eve day at Freedom Hill, DaNang South Vietnam (the entire cast flew in by helicopters), Herbert von Karajan and the Berlin Symphony Orchestra (in what was then West Berlin) and Sarah Brightman (spectacular),
  
 I guess it is fairly obvious from this list that I stopped going to live performances a long time ago, although this list doesn't include a lot of  performers that I would not consider "famous". These days my live performances are pretty much limited to the Arizona Opera Company and Phoenix Symphony. I used to serve on the board of trustees of the Arizona Opera Company. I love opera - particular Puccini and Wagner (two opposite extremes).One of my great memories was a front row seat at the Met for a performance of La Boheme.
  
 I saw John Denver twice. The first time was at a small coffee house in Scottsdale before he became famous. I didn't even know who he was at that time, but went to see him because I heard that he played a 12-string guitar. The second time was at a huge concert in Phoenix.
  
 Waylon Jennings played live 5 days a week at a place called JD's at the river bottom in south Scottsdale (it's now a mattress store). But in my college days, it was a country-western dance place with sawdust on the floor on the top floor and a disco on the bottom floor. Waylon had a life-long friend named Mac the Singing Bartender, who played during breaks. Mac played an instrument he called the guitoilet. It was a guitar made out of a toilet seat. Actually, the main reason I went to JD's was because I could get in even though I was under aged, but Waylon's "Four Strong Winds" is one of my all time favorite recordings.
  
 I never saw him in person, but I think Neil Diamond's "Hot August Night", along with Elvis's "Aloha From Hawaii", are my two favorite recorded concerts.
  
 Update on tubes. I spent most of yesterday listening to FDD20s/TS6520s. Today I've substituted the EL3Ns for the FDD20s. I can say that if I had bought a solid state amp (that didn't allow tube rolling) that had the sound of either combination I would be very happy. I think my preference if probably the EL3N. It doesn't quite have the "sparkle" of the FDD20s on the top end, but across the frequency curve it just seems to get everything right. And it has a visceral impact that is a little lacking with the FDD20s.
  
 Truly, one of the greatest:


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> This is swapped around and the gain is more. Sound a bit louder for the same volume on Elise. Just as sparkling clear and with very good definition. The electric guitar sound sharp and has bite. The drums are solid, controlled and very impactful.
> 
> ps..notice where my volume is at with T1 on both combos. That's quite loud.




After hearing Mordy say he liked EL3N and 6BL7 powers...I tried it last night.

But no good. My EL3N's have no high notes. Huge Bass and great through the mids (lower mids especially). 

Hearing H1's description of how EL3N morphed matches what I heard. Except mine never developed the "sparkling highs". 

And hearing what Suuup says, that other tubes sound "clearer" is where I am with them. 

Don't think I heard UT say his "changed" at all - his were 100% perfect and "the best he had ever heard the Elise" the second they landed in his driver sockets....

For me, they are unlistenable, as I do like sparkling highs, which my pair do not reproduce.

It's been a pretty controversial tube, for sure...

Cheers the the LUCKY ones!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

One of my fondest memories of live shows was seeing Ray Charles in the '80's...


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> After hearing Mordy say he liked EL3N and 6BL7 powers...I tried it last night.
> 
> But no good. My EL3N's have no high notes. Huge Bass and great through the mids (lower mids especially).
> 
> ...


 
 You are certainly right about the controversy. It's strange. I find it hard to believe you are getting the same results with the EL3Ns that I am. Which leaves me to believe that you must have a bad set. I'm not as enthusiastic about tube rolling as many here are. I'm primarily looking for an end game that I'm happy with and then just enjoy the music. From what I've experienced so far, I believe the EL3Ns could be the end game for me.
  
 I'm waiting for C3G adapters so I can try the pair I was using on my LD MK IV. I'll follow what people think about the 6BL7s and keep an open mind. I also have several pair of tubes I haven't tried yet. So my conclusion about the EL3Ns is still tentative. I do understand how you feel about not wanting to bother further with the EL3N tubes by trying another pair. Such a negative experience as you have had can leave a bad taste in one's mouth (or I guess "ears" in this case).


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> One of my fondest memories of live shows was seeing Ray Charles in the '80's...


 
 I can imagine. Whatever hormones I have left still start boiling every time I hear "What'd I Say"


----------



## pctazhp

For several reasons this song reminds me of how old I am. One of the reasons is he mentions the TV show "Ironside". Probably not many who remember that show. But I grew up watching Raymond Burr as Perry Mason. That's why I became a lawyer. I wanted a secretary like Della Street played by the great Barbara Hale )))
  
 Today, I would change the name of this song to "Old Dogs, Children, Watermelon Wine and an Elise amp"


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello pctazhp - 

Right, that is what I have been saying, everyone else's can't sound like mine, or they would not be loved. 

And right-o about end game tubes. My end gamers are FDD20/5998, these stay in almost all the time. 

I too, want others to try 2x 6BL7 as powers, and would warn that they are as much past heater spec as 1x 6BL7 is when used as a driver. So external heating of 2x seems necessary to me. 

Would definitely encourage C3g - a wonderful driver that can be enjoyed.

BTW, I came from LD MK IV too


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Left the EL3N in place and took out my beloved power tubes RCA 6BL7 and swapped for the 20/31 combo (courtesy of Suuup&hypnos1). This combination always hummed as drivers, the hum mainly coming from the FDD20, but now NO HUM at all with headphones and only very low level hum at way too loud levels with speakers.
  
 I am so relieved that the hum issue went away. It seems to be via courtesy of the EL3N drivers.
  
 The 20/31 has a mu of around 33; the 6BL7 has a mu of 15. For the first time I can leave the volume at the same level with headphones as with speakers, namely at full or almost full volume (10 o'clock for the 6BL7 and 15 o'clock (3 o'clock US) for the 20/31.
  
 Sounds great with wonderful mid range. As UT says, all these great tube combinations sound wonderful, albeit a little different from each other.
  
 Suuup: Here is a suggestion how to express how the EL3N sounds different - there is an evenness and smoothness across the entire frequency range; more so than other tubes we tried as drivers.
  
 This is how it looks like:




  
 UT: We just went through the Blizzard of 2016. You can take as much snow as you want to cool off! 18" where I live, and in excess of 25" in NYC. I have to clear my driveway now - you are not allowed to park overnight on the street in the winter so that the plows can clean.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Your using 2031 as powers! That's a different approach. "Even-ness of Frequency Respomce in EL3N"..interesting!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I've made a list of all the performers I've had the pleasure to hear in person. As far as I can remember, they are: Frank Sinatra, Judy Collins, Robert Goulet (in Camelot on Broadway), Elvis Presley (about a year before he died), John Denver, Jerry Lee Lewis, Gary "US" Bonds (I'm sure no one has ever heard of him!), Van Halen (took my then teenage son to a concert), the Eagles, the Righteous Brothers (April Stevens - "Teach Me Tiger" - opened for them), Flatt and Scruggs (played a lot of the Carter Family songs - June Carter Cash's family), Tanya Tucker (Glen Campbell's girlfriend - I know-who is Glen Campbell???), The Kingston Trio (twice), The Lettermen, Ray Price (what an amazing performer and song writer), Peter, Paul and Mary, Bob Hope (Christmas Eve day at Freedom Hill, DaNang South Vietnam (the entire cast flew in by helicopters), Herbert von Karajan and the Berlin Symphony Orchestra (in what was then West Berlin) and Sarah Brightman (spectacular),
> 
> I guess it is fairly obvious from this list that I stopped going to live performances a long time ago, although this list doesn't include a lot of  performers that I would not consider "famous". These days my live performances are pretty much limited to the Arizona Opera Company and Phoenix Symphony. I used to serve on the board of trustees of the Arizona Opera Company.* I love opera - particular Puccini* and Wagner (two opposite extremes).One of my great memories was a front row seat at the Met for a performance of La Boheme.
> 
> ...




  
 Hi pct....Puccini? - have you heard Jonas Kaufman's Cavaradossi in 'Tosca'...especially his "E lucevan le stelle"? And/or his "Vesti la giubba" from Leoncavallo's 'Pagliacci'?
  
 The incredible tonal range in his voice - especially via Elise + EL3N - is absolutely spine-tingling. A case of this tube's evenness throughout the frequency range - plus your "visceral impact" - showcasing his amazing talent to the highest level. Just for this alone, I would gladly trade a little off the top end...but even so, I _never_ feel cheated in this regard - the opposite in fact : there's no need whatsoever, with these tubes in place, to worry about any kind of 'modding' for the Beyer T1(ver.1)'s treble!...a wonderful added bonus, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Left the EL3N in place and took out my beloved power tubes RCA 6BL7 and swapped for the 20/31 combo (courtesy of Suuup&hypnos1). This combination always hummed as drivers, the hum mainly coming from the FDD20, but now NO HUM at all with headphones and only very low level hum at way too loud levels with speakers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...so glad to hear that for you too, the EL3N brings the added bonus of 'Humphrey', lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. And your "evenness and smoothness across the entire frequency range" is spot on - especially with extended burn-in...which brings with it greater clarity, openness and fine detail, as I've mentioned previously...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Plus, as others have found, their cool running (without adversely affecting sound!) has just _*got*_ to be good news for Elise's longevity, lol...


----------



## pctazhp

Quote:
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct....Puccini? - have you heard Jonas Kaufman's Cavaradossi in 'Tosca'...especially his "E lucevan le stelle"? And/or his "Vesti la giubba" from Leoncavallo's 'Pagliacci'?
> 
> The incredible tonal range in his voice - especially via Elise + EL3N - is absolutely spine-tingling. A case of this tube's evenness throughout the frequency range - plus your "visceral impact" - showcasing his amazing talent to the highest level. Just for this alone, I would gladly trade a little off the top end...but even so, I _never_ feel cheated in this regard - the opposite in fact : there's no need whatsoever, with these tubes in place, to worry about any kind of 'modding' for the Beyer T1(ver.1)'s treble!...a wonderful added bonus, lol!!


 
 Thanks H1 I've heard the Tosca piece before, but not for a long time. I'm listening to it now. You are certainly right about the tingling spine!!! Such a wonderful voice. Not familiar with the Leoncavalio one, but will check it out))
  
 Your comment about the T1 Ver 1 is interesting. I feel I'm probably pretty close to my end game with amp and tubes. I may be trying additional tubes in the Elise but I doubt I will be spending big bucks on any more tubes - unless you discover the absolute Holy Grail and tell us that life is not worth living without it ))))
  
 So that leaves me thinking (obsessing????) about headphones. I can easily live for a long time with the HD700s. They do nothing great, but just about everything reasonably good. That is a good type of phone for me because just as I don't want to be changing tubes frequently, I don't want to be changing headphones either. My taste in music is pretty eclectic so I could easily get into trying to decide which tubes and which cans are best for a particular genre of music. But I just don't have the interest, energy or self-discipline for that.
  
 I don't want to switch to a new set of cans unless I'm pretty sure it will be the one I will use most if not all of the time at home with the Elise. From early reports, I have been thinking that the HD800S may be my logical upgrade/end-game move for me. But it looks like it won't be available here in the US until the end of February at the earliest, and I'm pretty sure the price will remain pretty close to MSRP for the next several years. 
  
 All the dysfunctional voices in my head are telling me that if I decide the T1 will be my end game (at least for the next couple of years), I should get the Version 2 because, of course, it has to be better because it is new!!! But I think what you are telling me is that the Version 1 is really an ideal mate for the Elise-EL3N combo. Am I close to understanding?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> UT: We just went through the Blizzard of 2016. You can take as much snow as you want to cool off! 18" where I live, and in excess of 25" in NYC. I have to clear my driveway now - you are not allowed to park overnight on the street in the winter so that the plows can clean.


 
 Our winter here in Scottsdale is also brutal. We will only get up to 65 F today. And we have to be careful to put on our sunscreen before we go out in the bright sun)))
  
 At least you don't have to move your lawn today like UT !!!!


----------



## mordy

Can't contribute about the musical material presented by forum members - different background, different culture, different taste, but I remember something about other kids singing something about a yellow submarine.....
  
 Now listening to a 1918 recording by the Original Dixieland Jazz Band - At the Jazz Band Ball. For you Brits there is another recording of the same tune by the same band from 1920 in London.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMpMVXDesv4
  
 Here is a picture of my lawn - got to try out the "snow' setting on my new point&shoot camera:
  







  
 I was incorrect when I called this storm the Blizzard of 2016. Apparently sharks are in style, and I just heard how they named it on the radio:
  
 The Great White!


----------



## JazzVinyl

All this praise and "end game" comments on EL3N...

I feel *VERY* ripped off.

Mine being un-listenable.


:mad:


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Can't contribute about the musical material presented by forum members - different background, different culture, different taste, but I remember something about other kids singing something about a yellow submarine.....
> 
> Now listening to a 1918 recording by the Original Dixieland Jazz Band - At the Jazz Band Ball. For you Brits there is another recording of the same tune by the same band from 1920 in London.
> 
> ...


 

 Were do you live ?  Got 6" to 8" in North Carolina.
 Coming from upstate New York this is nothing.


----------



## vince741




----------



## JazzVinyl

I wish someone would record a song from the Elise RCA outs using EL3N so I can hear what you hear...post it on Youtube or something....


----------



## JazzVinyl

vince741 said:


> Won't somebody please think of Jazzvinyl's EL3N's"




What does that mean?


:rolleyes:


----------



## vince741

It's a Simpson reference, Helen Lovejoy's (in picture) catchphrase is "won't somebody please think of the children".


----------



## JazzVinyl

vince741 said:


> It's a Simpson reference, Helen Lovejoy's (in picture) catchphrase is "won't somebody please think of the children".




Gotcha...hate the Simpsons 

:rolleyes:


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Thanks H1 I've heard the Tosca piece before, but not for a long time. I'm listening to it now. You are certainly right about the tingling spine!!! Such a wonderful voice. Not familiar with the Leoncavalio one, but will check it out))
> 
> Your comment about the T1 Ver 1 is interesting. I feel I'm probably pretty close to my end game with amp and tubes. I may be trying additional tubes in the Elise but I doubt I will be spending big bucks on any more tubes - unless you discover the absolute Holy Grail and tell us that life is not worth living without it ))))
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again pct...you bet you understand me correctly, lol! As far as I myself am concerned ( and I'm not the only one, it appears!) :  given what the EL3Ns - plus Elise, of course!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - do for Gen1, I really don't see the need to spend a great deal more for Gen 2...just ask UT and LR (I believe)! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However, of course, before spending any more money at all, you _*must*_ try and audition any new cans first, lol..._if you possibly can!!_ Unfortunately, I have no _real_ idea just how much 'better' the T1s are against the HD700s...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


jazzvinyl said:


> All this praise and "end game" comments on EL3N...
> 
> I feel *VERY* ripped off.
> 
> Mine being un-listenable.


 
  
 Yo JV....this is the _height _of cruelty, to be sure!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - so...is it the adapters, or the tubes lol?! It certainly is unusual that _both_ of either should be u/s...but it might just be worth emailing Peter (I presume that's where you got them from), and describe your own experience compared to everyone else?...nothing to lose...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> Yes and yes - two EL3N as drivers and two 6BL7 as power tubes. There are some 350 listings for 6BL7 tubes on eBay today - several listings of pairs with auctions starting at around $10 shipped.


 
  
 My problem is the same as Suuup's.
  


suuup said:


> I'd be very interested in 6BL7's as powers, and was actually looking for some when Mordy mentioned how well it sounded as powers. Prices weren't Denmark-friendly on Ebay though, so I stopped looking.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again pct...you bet you understand me correctly, lol! As far as I myself am concerned ( and I'm not the only one, it appears!) :  given what the EL3Ns - plus Elise, of course!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks H1. I understand that you can't compare the T! to the HD700s. I suspect it's a major upgrade. I love the HD700s, but since I got the Elise and started rolling tubes I think I now have a pretty good idea of the HD700s' sonic signature. Certain things that seem to remain consist from roll to roll. I've never been very bothered by the 700's treble spike. Maybe I can't hear it. But I think the main shortcoming I hear is in the integration of upper bass with mid-range. Something always sounds a little off to me. I also feel that the HD700s often struggle to really open up. They sound a little congested and that remains very consistent no matter what I'm running in the Elise.
  
 The 700s are pretty good at layering, but the sound stage seems a lot smaller than what I have read about the HD800s.
  
 If I buy a T1 (either version) I'll buy new from Amazon. I wouldn't mind buying a used pair locally if I could return them easily after a few days of trial, but I don't think I'll be able to do that here. With Amazon I can easily return the cans if they aren't what I want. Over the years I have bought thousands of things from Amazon and I have probably only returned 3 or 4 items. I just don't feel right about ordering something unless I think I will be keeping it. But when I have returned something, Amazon has always been great. They refund the money as soon as my return package has been scanned where I drop it off.
  
 Anyway, I'll give it some more thought. I really appreciate your interest and help.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Having now put some time on the 6520s, I have now swithced to the 6080s. They are better than I remembered. And really, my listening and writing skills (or lack thereof) make it difficult for me provide a lot of helpful feedback as to the differences. I can say now that as of now I prefer the 6520s. They seem sweeter with more impact. The treble of the 6080s sounds just a little rough to me. But I probably have less than 2 hours on the 6080s, so I'm going to leave them in for a while and give them a chance to burn in. Certainly, they are very enjoyable to listen to. So I'll let you know how I feel in another day or two.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Thanks H1. I understand that you can't compare the T! to the HD700s. I suspect it's a major upgrade. I love the HD700s, but since I got the Elise and started rolling tubes I think I now have a pretty good idea of the HD700s' sonic signature. Certain things that seem to remain consist from roll to roll. I've never been very bothered by the 700's treble spike. Maybe I can't hear it. But I think the main shortcoming I hear is in the integration of upper bass with mid-range. Something always sounds a little off to me. I also feel that the HD700s often struggle to really open up. They sound a little congested and that remains very consistent no matter what I'm running in the Elise.
> 
> The 700s are pretty good at layering, but the sound stage seems a lot smaller than what I have read about the HD800s.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, pct...well, all I can say is the T1s reproduce the _entire_ frequency range with aplomb, and there's no congestion _whatsoever, lol!_





...perhaps that clarifies things just a bit more...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....decisions, decisions!! But if you're able to return them to Amazon without problem, then it seems to be a "no brainer" - don't worry about not feeling "right"...it's not as though you are out to rip anyone off, mon ami!...GO FOR IT!!


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm, pct...well, all I can say is the T1s reproduce the _entire_ frequency range with aplomb, and there's no congestion _whatsoever, lol!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Makes sense to me. Thanks )))


----------



## pctazhp

Someone on The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread recently posted the following recommended amps by price range for the HD800.
  
 < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
 < $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
 < $1500 - Questyle CMA800R
 < $2000 - Cavalli Liquid Crimson @ show special price
 < $3000 - DNA Stratus
 < $4000 - Cavalli Liquid Gold
  
 Really seems crazy to me the Elise almost never gets mentioned on threads like that.


----------



## UntilThen

I know what it's like now for all of you to come online and have to read through a ton of my posts. This morning I have to do that with a ton of your posts but I'm really enjoying it. 
  
 From Puccini to Glenn Campbell, from snow to bush fires, from HD700 to T1 or HD800s, from Arizona to UK, Utah, Carolina, Denmark, Australia, France, etc, etc.
  
*I finally know why I love EL3N... It got all of you talking non stop finally hooray !!! Mission accomplished. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Sounds great with wonderful mid range. As UT says, *all these great tube combinations sound wonderful, albeit a little different from each other.*
> 
> Suuup: Here is a suggestion how to express how the EL3N sounds different - *there is an evenness and smoothness across the entire frequency range; more so than other tubes we tried as drivers.*
> 
> UT: We just went through the Blizzard of 2016. You can take as much snow as you want to cool off! 18" where I live, and in excess of 25" in NYC. I have to clear my driveway now - you are not allowed to park overnight on the street in the winter so that the plows can clean.


 
 I just want to comment on what Mordy says here. 
  
 He's right not because he quoted me LOL but his observations are spot on.
  
 1. It's futile debating which is the best combination. There are far too many good sounding tubes we've discovered here. There's something for everybody. We're all different and we have preferences and I respect that. I'll make my favourite list shortly and I'll stop harping on the EL3N after point 2 because I love the others too.
  
 2. Smooth across the entire FR is what I have been saying all along. This is what appeals to me. EL3N initially sounded very different to me when I first listen to it. There are sparkles everywhere but it has changed along the way...for the better. There is a smoothness now that makes me listen to music rather than listen to individual notes. Treble and bass does not stand out as in some others. There's just a smooth blending in with the mids.
  
 Finally Mordy, I'll give anything for a bit of your snow. Take all the heat here ... just help yourself.
  
 ps..I'm still on EL3N as driver and FDD20 as power tubes. This is a cool combination... literally... the chassis is cool.... so is the music.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 That Simpson cartoon I interpret that the members on this forum care about your problem with EL3N not sounding right - and that people care is a nice thing.
  
 Personally, I appreciate all the suggestions, advice and help in trying to solve my hum problem with certain tubes.
  
 UT:
  
 More EL3N material: As mentioned, today I am using the EL3N as driver tubes with the 20/31 combo as power tubes. What stands out is the deep bass and the great mid range. Compared to the 6BL7 the BL tubes have more impact in the bass (but don't go as low) and a little more detail. I could happily live with both.
  
 2359Glen:
  
 The Great White is the second largest snow storm in NYC history with 27" of snow in the city. Other parts of NYC got over 3'. I live north of NYC and usually we get more snow here than the city, but not this time.
 Do you live in NC? Why did I think that you resided in the UK?
 Upstate NY, Buffalo as an example, get yards of snow - nothing to compare with, but everything is relative. Took me over two hours to dig out my cars and clean my drive way.
  
 PS: Have to add that the Elise with these tubes is cold - the chassis does not heat up at all, and the transformer housing is barely warm.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Someone on The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread recently posted the following recommended amps by price range for the HD800.
> 
> < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> < $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
> ...


 

 Now, now my friend you shouldn't be too worried about that. I can see several boutique tube amps not mentioned there too as well as some large ones.
  
 Water Lilies 
is a series of approximately 250 oil paintings by French Impressionist Claude Monet. The paintings depict Monet's flower garden at Giverny and were the main focus of Monet's artistic production during the last thirty years of his life. 
  
If you ask others what their favourite paintings are, you'll get different answers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I hope someone will take up the challenge to record the RCA output from Elise w/EL3N as drivers.

I will try and do the same with my 'Tards. Can't today, though, because I am still interior trim painting (talk about "it never ends") but will be thinking of how to best accomplish this,

I don't want to buy any more EL3N's without confirmation that that "it's just mine" that have *no flippin' treble*.

Cheers to the "*mostly LUCKY*" ones...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> UT:
> 
> More EL3N material: As mentioned, today I am using the EL3N as driver tubes with the 20/31 combo as power tubes. What stands out is the deep bass and the great mid range. Compared to the 6BL7 the BL tubes have more impact in the bass (but don't go as low) and a little more detail. I could happily live with both.


 
 Hi again Mordy !!!
  
 I'm waiting for the 4 GE 6BL7 GTA eagerly. As well as dual EL3N adapters.
  
 Try EL3N with 2 FFD20 also. I have no doubt with 2031, you'll get deep bass.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I hope someone will take up the challenge to record the RCA output from Elise w/EL3N as drivers.


 
 That is not going to produce what you will hear directly from the headphone. There is only one way to hear it... like what LR did...hear it on my setup.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sure





untilthen said:


> That is not going to produce what you will hear directly from the headphone. There is only one way to hear it... like what LR did...hear it on my setup.




Sure it would. 

An analog signal is presented to the Elise input and it outputted via the RCA out jacks, as well as the headphone jack.

There is nothing magic happening here, in that the headphone does something different with the amplified signal.. 

I will proceed with recording the no treble EL3N's.


Cheers...


----------



## JazzVinyl

@Suuup and @Oskari - USA users can buy some 6BL7's and send over to you....

That should get you past the EU price problem?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Now, now my friend you shouldn't be too worried about that. I can see several boutique tube amps not mentioned there too as well as some large ones.
> 
> Water Lilies
> is a series of approximately 250 oil paintings by French Impressionist Claude Monet. The paintings depict Monet's flower garden at Giverny and were the main focus of Monet's artistic production during the last thirty years of his life.
> ...


 
 Your right )))  I really don't know how the Elise compares to any of those amps. It just seems a little strange to go from this thread where all of us are so enthusiastic about it to other threads where they seem not to even know about it.
  
 The 6080s are sounding better and better ))


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> @Suuup and @Oskari - USA users can buy some 6BL7's and send over to you....
> 
> That should get you past the EU price problem?


 
 Let me know if I can be of help.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> The 6080s are sounding better and better ))




I knew the 6080's would come around.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I know what it's like now for all of you to come online and have to read through a ton of my posts. This morning I have to do that with a ton of your posts but I'm really enjoying it.
> 
> From Puccini to Glenn Campbell, from snow to bush fires, from HD700 to T1 or HD800s, from Arizona to UK, Utah, Carolina, Denmark, Australia, France, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


 
 If I ever wake up in the morning and don't find new posts from you I'm going to suffer from extreme separation anxiety


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Someone on The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread recently posted the following recommended amps by price range for the HD800.
> 
> < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> < $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
> ...




I had a pretty fancy schmanzy SS amp before LD MK IV and Elise...

Tubes amps are *WAY MORE FUN*....


----------



## UntilThen

My heart almost stopped when a parcel came from Hong Kong but it's the pair of single EL3N to 6SN7 adapters and a pair of golden socket savers.
  
 Now I can use 4 EL3Ns again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Dual EL3N adapters should be arriving shortly as I ordered them a few days apart.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> @Suuup and @Oskari - USA users can buy some 6BL7's and send over to you....
> 
> That should get you past the EU price problem?


 

 Let me know if I can help. It's will be a very special Aussie shipping rates.


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> @Suuup and @Oskari - USA users can buy some 6BL7's and send over to you....
> 
> That should get you past the EU price problem?


 
  
 That could certainly help in some cases but the tubes would still have to travel across the ocean.
  


pctazhp said:


> Let me know if I can be of help.


 
  
 Thanks for the offer! I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> If I ever wake up in the morning and don't find new posts from you I'm going to suffer from extreme separation anxiety


 

 This is worrying. If my wife reads this, I'll have a hard time explaining....


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Let me know if I can help. It's will be a very special Aussie shipping rates.


 
  
 Thanks! What's a very special Aussie shipping rate like?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Thanks! What's a very special Aussie shipping rate like?


 

 Your 6BL7 tubes will get around the world trip and should sound better when it arrives. 
  
 These golden socket savers generates more SQ I'm almost certain !!!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> These golden socket savers generates more SQ I'm almost certain !!!


 
  
 Ordered those with the EL3N adapters. They are on a world tour somewhere.


----------



## UntilThen

This is so pretty I'm going to hang it up on the wall. 
  
 I really miss this sound since LR left and took his pair of EL3N adapters away. It's sounding so soothing now with T1. Glorious music. It's a shame yours have distortion @hypnos1
  
 Listening to 'Famous Blue Raincoat' Jennifer Warnes. 20th anniversary edition. Great recording.
  

  
 Oops I should have remove the stickers from the adapters.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> That could certainly help in some cases but the tubes would still have to travel across the ocean.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the offer! I'll keep that in mind.




I can help with that as well...


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I am really quite taken with the EL3N/5998 combo.
> 
> It's really REALLY good.
> 
> ...


 

 JV, your EL3N's treble must have busted along the way because this is what you said 3 weeks ago.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, your EL3N's treble must have busted along the way because this is what you said 3 weeks ago.




I know, I have already stated that they started off good.

I also said from the start that the Beyers didn't like them, but the Sennheiser's did. The SENN's are thin on bass, the massive bass helped the Senn's and were a detriment to the Beyer's.

H1 said they get better and better with use. Mine went south with use. I am not confused, UT, I know when a tube sounds like "Schiit".

Now, they sound like low pass filters.

And I would still like for someone to record from RCA out, EL3N's that are sounding good.




.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Many fine combos is right..

Here is one that is enjoyable...7N7 as drivers and 6BL7 as powers...




Rockin' the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" CD..which is exceptionally well recorded.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello folks, including @UntilThen or anyone
  
 If anybody has any extra 6N7G / CV1285 / NR73 / ECC31 class tubes they wouldn't mind parting with, we have some people on the Ember tube rolling thread who would like to buy some. I don't mean to subtract from the Elise tubes, so just if you have any extra that you don't need - we would really like to try one in the Ember as we recently discovered they're compatible, and it only needs 1 tube. If so, please please on the link above thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Hello folks, including @UntilThen or anyone
> 
> If anybody has any extra 6N7G / CV1285 / NR73 / ECC31 class tubes they wouldn't mind parting with, we have some people on the Ember tube rolling thread who would like to buy some. I don't mean to subtract from the Elise tubes, so just if you have any extra that you don't need - we would really like to try one in the Ember as we recently discovered they're compatible, and it only needs 1 tube. If so, please please on the link above thanks.


 
 Yes I do have a NOS NR73 / ECC31 and several 6N7Gs to part with for price I pay for. All tested and working flawlessly on Elise.
  
 A pair of Philco 6N7G. I won't sell single on this as a single is useless to me.
 A pair of Visseaux 6N7G - this you have to twist my arms for me to sell it.
  
 Finally National Union 6A6 - 5 of them. will sell single or in pairs but you need the 6A6 to 6SN7 adapters. These sound similar to 6N7G.
  
 Ah... a pair of NOS RCA 6N7GT smoke glass.
  
 A pair of RVC FDD20 with paint removed. If this goes into your Amber.


----------



## UntilThen

One comment:-
  
 I beg my mom to switch generations with me. I want to be a teen in the 80s, it's no fair. 
  
 So here's the song that prompted that comment.


----------



## DecentLevi

WOWZA guys... for anyone still wanting to get on board with the FDD20 setup in the Elise, looks like Mrs. Xuling at eBay has gone the extra mile to include the wire for us, so now all it needs is the power supply!


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> WOWZA guys... for anyone still wanting to get on board with the FDD20 setup in the Elise, looks like Mrs. Xuling at eBay has gone the extra mile to include the wire for us, so now all it needs is the power supply!


 
 It's been out for a while. Most of us are using that. JV organise that with Mrs. X. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Did you not see it in my photos?


----------



## UntilThen

@Suuup  !!!!   Did you see this?


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> It's been out for a while. Most of us are using that. JV organise that with Mrs. X.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Much obliged - I'll get started on that 'Fido' setup (my nickname) before my Elise arrives.
  
 No I missed the photos - must have been on some of the 100 pages the aliens censored from me


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Much obliged - I'll get started on that 'Fido' setup (my nickname) before my Elise arrives.
> 
> No I missed the photos - must have been on some of the 100 pages the aliens censored from me


 

 This is how I hook it up easy so I can unplug anytime from the 12V power supply.
  
 Remember twist red wires together and black together.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> @Suuup  !!!!   Did you see this?
> 
> ;


 
 I'd love to sit on a beach, with a nice hot sun shining down upon me and that drink at my table.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is another female songstress for UT's collection:

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lahT8hNUVcU [/VIDEO]


----------



## Suuup

@JazzVinyl I'll gladly record my EL3N for you, if you can guide me through it.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Yea, I've seen it. Wouldn't mention it, as I'm afraid to draw too much attention to it. Someone has been buying all the 6N7G on Ebay lately.


 
 What 6N7G? All I see now is a cocktail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> Here is another female songstress for UT's collection:


 
 Ty ty...will listen to it now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Nice song. Lively.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> @JazzVinyl
> I'll gladly record my EL3N for you, if you can guide me through it.




Thanks Suuup, 

I'll send you a PM tomorrow, it's time for sleep...

Cheers...


----------



## Suuup

About the 6BL7. I'll wait for someone else to report their findings. If it's good, I might jump on the wagon and take some of you up on your offer of shipping them over here. And thanks for the offers! It seems we have gathered a bunch of very friendly people in our little Elise-community.


----------



## UntilThen

6BL7... I'm hoping it's good too. Will save us a lot of money. I have only 3 5998 and have no intention of buying more. So if 6BL7 as a pair sounds good enough to replace 5998 than it's a real bonus. 
  
 about dual 6BL7, I'm just going to brave it and try it out without external power supply. 4 6BL7 will draw 6A against Elise 5A for the 2 power sockets. Presumably Elise has a bit more than that. Will try a multitude of drivers with quad 6BL7. In any case it's the sum total of all tubes current draw in relation to what the power transformer is capable of. I hope... or I'll join @Lorspeaker with the vmonk and android phone.
  
 However, for the photoshoot of the year, I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing six EL3N in Elise. I have a feeling the adapters will arrive this week.


----------



## UntilThen

This is dedicated to......    all the Mamas and Papas.
  
 Michelle Phillips look so young.


----------



## JazzVinyl

1x 6BL7 in driver position = 1/2 amp over spec per driver for the Elise Transformer.

2x 6BL7 in power position = 1/2 amp over spec per power for the Elise Transformer

Everyone agreed not to do this to the driver position (heat it externally) the sentiment appears to be "don't worry about it" when in the power position.

Caution is advised.

Cheers!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This is dedicated to......    all the Mamas and Papas.
> 
> Michelle Phillips look so young.




 The Mamas and Papas were wildly popular. I listened to California Dreaming a lot during the cold winter days of my college days in New Jersey!!! "Dedicated to the One I Love" was first recorded by The Shrelles back in the 50s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   


  
 The next song that came up on YouTube when I listened to the M&Ps version was "My Girl". It reminded me that I had left The Temptations off my list of live performances. In 1964 when their recording of "My Girl" was at the top of the charts I say them in Bermuda while I was there on spring vacation. Several of the hotels on the island had brought them down for the week and they rotated between hotels for the week. We were staying in one of the cheap dive hotels downtown. One afternoon we were spending the afternoon drinking in our hotel room and there was a knock on the door. I opened it and to my complete surprise it was the Temptations!!! They were looking for someone else staying in the hotel. I invited them to join our party and they did. Totally great guys. Lots of interesting stories about Motown - especially Diana Ross and the Supremes.
  
 Temptations - My Girl:


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> It's been out for a while. Most of us are using that. JV organise that with Mrs. X.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just curious. Do you prefer the 5998s to the 6520s?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Just curious. Do you prefer the 5998s to the 6520s?


 
 Depends on the drivers used and the music I listen to.
  
 Right now I can tell you without hesitation, I prefer quad EL3N. I even sat through Vivaldi Four Seasons and Naxos Sampler 1 in one seating. Classical sounded so clear and enjoyable with these tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I enjoyed your stories of seeing those live performances. Must be a truly thrilling experience. My most memorable live performance is seeing Phantom of the Opera.
  
 I've to smile... I love the song 'My Girl'


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Depends on the drivers used and the music I listen to.
> 
> Right now I can tell you without hesitation, I prefer quad EL3N. I even sat through Vivaldi Four Seasons and Naxos Sampler 1 in one seating. Classical sounded so clear and enjoyable with these tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah. I'm blessed with some great memories. And I love Phantom !!!
  
 I've got a second pair of EL3Ns and Mrs.Xuling's second pair of adapters is on the way. Hopefully soon I'll also be listening to the quad setup.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Yeah. I'm blessed with some great memories. And I love Phantom !!!
> 
> I've got a second pair of EL3Ns and Mrs.Xuling's second pair of adapters is on the way. Hopefully soon I'll also be listening to the quad setup.


 

 I hope with quad EL3N it will be distortion free for you because nothing ruins it like having distortions. On T1, I'm blessed with no distortions. Quad EL3N sounded even more smooth than just EL3N as drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I hope with quad EL3N it will be distortion free for you because nothing ruins it like having distortions. On T1, I'm blessed with no distortions. Quad EL3N sounded even more smooth than just EL3N as drivers.


 

 I'm curious as to what you mean when you say "distortion". I've certainly read posts here where someone was having a problem with distortion. I don't think I have had that problem with any of the power tubes I have tried. I do get some occasional popping noise with some tubes but have not heard the actual music sound distorted.
  
 Well, we will see how the quads fare with my HD700s.
  
 By the way, would you please order a pair of HD800S so you can provide me a comparison with the T1 powered by the Elise. You need to get your order in soon, or you will be on a long waiting list.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm curious as to what you mean when you say "distortion". I've certainly read posts here where someone was having a problem with distortion. I don't think I have had that problem with any of the power tubes I have tried. I do get some occasional popping noise with some tubes but have not heard the actual music sound distorted.
> 
> Well, we will see how the quads fare with my HD700s.
> 
> By the way, would you please order a pair of HD800S so you can provide me a comparison with the T1 powered by the Elise. You need to get your order in soon, or you will be on a long waiting list.


 

 With quad EL3N and using HE560, I get distortion like cone breaking up at 10:30am or greater. It's like listening to a pair of speakers with the cones damaged. I've never had this problem before. It is not a once off. I tested it many times.
  
 T1 and HD650 has no such problem. 
  
 I really don't need HD800S now even though I have not heard it because T1 sounds very good to me right now. I think T1 is a better all rounder. It's like having Elise. You don't feel the need to upgrade. However headphones are very personal so everyone will have their own preference. 
  
 Ps..HE560 has no issue with EL3N and 5998. Perfect pairing. Remember HE560 is planar magnetic and low impedance and low efficiency. I need more volume on HE560 than I need on T1 600ohms with EL3N / 5998 or FDD20 / 5998.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> With quad EL3N and using HE560, I get distortion like cone breaking up at 10:30am or greater. It's like listening to a pair of speakers with the cones damaged. I've never had this problem before. It is not a once off. I tested it many times.
> 
> T1 and HD650 has no such problem.
> 
> I really don't need HD800S now even though I have not heard it because T1 sounds very good to me right now. I think T1 is a better all rounder. It's like having Elise. You don't feel the need to upgrade. However headphones are very personal so everyone will have their own preference.


 
 I've never had the distortion problem you described with the EL3Ns driving your HE560. But we will see how it goes here. Maybe the EL3Ns don't handle the HE560's low impedance. That shouldn't be a problem with the HD700s, although they are a little low at 150 ohms.
  
 I understand about your lack of interest in the HD800S. Just thought you might be getting bored ))))
  
 I will probably be ordering a pair of T1s from Amazon soon.


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> I've never had the distortion problem you described with the EL3Ns driving your HE560. But we will see how it goes here. Maybe the EL3Ns don't handle the HE560's low impedance. That shouldn't be a problem with the HD700s, although they are a little low at 150 ohms.
> 
> I understand about your lack of interest in the HD800S. Just thought you might be getting bored ))))
> 
> I will probably be ordering a pair of T1s from Amazon soon.


 
 To me, T1 is up there with Elise for "Best Purchase".


----------



## Oskari

CJ,
  
 I hear you have new information about the heaters. Why don't you let us know? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 O.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I've never had the distortion problem you described with the EL3Ns driving your HE560. But we will see how it goes here. Maybe the EL3Ns don't handle the HE560's low impedance. That shouldn't be a problem with the HD700s, although they are a little low at 150 ohms.
> 
> I understand about your lack of interest in the HD800S. Just thought you might be getting bored ))))
> 
> I will probably be ordering a pair of T1s from Amazon soon.


 

 Only when running quad EL3N do I have that problem with HE560. Running EL3N as drivers and 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G as powers has no such problem.
  
 Good man on T1. You'll be very happy. Your first reaction will be the soundstage ... massive but that's not it..will leave you to find out.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> CJ,
> 
> I hear you have new information about the heaters. Why don't you let us know?
> 
> ...


 

 Who is CJ?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Who is CJ?


 
  
 Aka H1.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I understand about your lack of interest in the HD800S. Just thought you might be getting bored ))))


 
 It's not my lack of interest in the HD800S. It's my interest on the T1 on the contrary. There's a difference.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's not my lack of interest in the HD800S. It's my interest on the T1 on the contrary. There's a difference.


 
 I agree with this entirely. I don't feel an itch to buy new headphones to replace my T1, as the T1 simply is that good. I don't have anything I could improve, except maybe a removable cable. That's it. I wouldn't change anything about the design or the sound of it. It is 10/10, and that is not an exaggeration from my part. Truly 10/10.


----------



## mordy

Did anybody order the dual adapters for running 2 x 6BL7 from Mrs Xuling?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Did anybody order the dual adapters for running 2 x 6BL7 from Mrs Xuling?


 

 I didn't hear anyone say it's ready for sale on eBay. Just check and it's not there.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> CJ,
> 
> I hear you have new information about the heaters. Why don't you let us know?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will do, O...now you have also confirmed what would _appear_ to be the case, after studying the photo of Elise's innards Lukasz gave us (and which is on the first post of the original Elise thread).
  
 It does indeed look like the statement made some time ago (can't remember who it was, alas!), concerning heater current draw, is probably correct after all - ie that confirmation seemed to have been received from Lukasz about the _*total*_ amps figure being more applicable than each _*separate*_ driver & power figure : on examining said photo, the heater wires for both the powers _and_ drivers definitely appear to be sharing a common supply, and not separate ones.
  
 Which means, of course, that we may well not have to worry about the _individual_ driver/power heater current requirements, just the _*sum total*_. This would explain why @puffmtd was able to run _*5998s *_as _*drivers!*_ with no obvious ill effects...presumably with just 1.8A total for the 2x EL3N powers (hopefully, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - can you confirm this, puff?)... thus an overall total of 6.8A, as opposed to 6.2A for stock configuration.
  
 I repeat...this would certainly _*appear*_ to be the case, but I shall still ask Lukasz to (re-)confirm this, and also the _safest_ maximum to adhere to - especially as 2x EL3N drivers with 4x 6BL7s will total *7.8A*, of course, if not using a separate power supply...are you still feeling lucky, @UntilThen?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
  


suuup said:


> I agree with this entirely. I don't feel an itch to buy new headphones to replace my T1, as the T1 simply is that good. I don't have anything I could improve, except maybe a removable cable. That's it. I wouldn't change anything about the design or the sound of it. It is 10/10, and that is not an exaggeration from my part. Truly 10/10.


 
  
 That's no exaggeration Suuup - that's _*SPOT ON!!*_








...


----------



## pctazhp

I want to thank everyone here who has provided me advice about the T1. It is very nice to be part of a thread where we all try to help each other rather than trying to out-smart everyone.
  
 I ordered a new T1 Version 2 from Amazon and should have it on Thursday. Fortunately, I can return it if I don't like it.
  
 From everything I have learned here and my own research it does seem the T1 is what I'm looking for - a great all-around HP that is ideally suited for the Elise.
  
 I'll let you know what I think later this week.


----------



## puffmtd

hypnos1 said:


> Will do, O...now you have also confirmed what would _appear_ to be the case, after studying the photo of Elise's innards Lukasz gave us (and which is on the first post of the original Elise thread).
> 
> It does indeed look like the statement made some time ago (can't remember who it was, alas!), concerning heater current draw, is probably correct after all - ie that confirmation seemed to have been received from Lukasz about the _*total*_ amps figure being more applicable than each _*separate*_ driver & power figure : on examining said photo, the heater wires for both the powers _and_ drivers definitely appear to be sharing a common supply, and not separate ones.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes sir, I was running two EL3N'S as powers and two 5998s as drivers for a couple of hours and the Elise never ran cooler.  Of course, this was just me not knowing what I was doing at the time and not due to all these complicated electrical measurements. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I hope you're correct because I would love to go back and listen to that combination again.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I want to thank everyone here who has provided me advice about the T1. It is very nice to be part of a thread where we all try to help each other rather than trying to out-smart everyone.
> 
> I ordered a new T1 Version 2 from Amazon and should have it on Thursday. Fortunately, I can return it if I don't like it.
> 
> ...


 

 This is starting to look like a T1 clan. 
  
 I'll share LR's feelings when he listen to my 3 headphones. He started off with the T1, close his eyes and listen intently for a full song. Hotel California from the Hell Freezes Over album. When he finished he looked at me and said, 'Big soundstage, I can hear everything. I like it'.
 Next he put on the HE560. Straight away he grimaced as he indicated to me the tight clamp. Not surprising as the T1 felt very comforting with a very relaxed clamp. He liked the sound from the HE560 just as much. The difference being the HE560 has the soundstage smaller and the musicians grouped closer together. Midrange also seem more forward and focus. I nodded in agreement. Next he tried the HD650 and remarked that it sounded less detail but have the most pronounced mid bass. Again I nodded in agreement. Then he let me listen to his  HD600. I was shocked how impactful HD600 bass sounded on Hotel California with Elise on EL3N and 5998. Very enjoyable.
  
 Long story short, LR says the T1 is his next goal but that he's enjoying the HD600 very much at the moment. I too agree the HD600 seems an exceptional value headphone that pairs immediately with Elise.
  
 pct, you won't regret getting the T1 whether G1 or G2. The problem is I think you won't be returning it and pretty soon your HD700 will be like my HD650, sitting in a corner looking very neglected. Even the HE560 is getting neglected now.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I repeat...this would certainly _*appear*_ to be the case, but I shall still ask Lukasz to (re-)confirm this, and also the _safest_ maximum to adhere to - especially as 2x EL3N drivers with 4x 6BL7s will total *7.8A*, of course, if not using a separate power supply...are you still feeling lucky, @UntilThen?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That does seem a fair bit more than stock standard. 7.8A vs 6.2A. My left brain shall consult with my right brain and come to a join decision...on whether to do or not to do. To be or not to be?
  
 I must be crazy to attempt 4 power tubes seeing I have such great enjoyment from these tubes:-
  
 In the order of preference for me. I've no doubt yours will be different from mine. Another thing, 6BL7 is not in the list as power tubes because I've not heard it yet. I've not included Mullard 6080 and GE 6AS7GA because these are my 'choice' combinations.
  

*Driver**Power*EL3NEL3NEL3N5998 / 6AS7GFDD205998 / 6AS7GFivre 6N7G brown base5998 / 6AS7G20315998 / 6AS7GMazda 6N7G5998 / 6AS7GVisseaux 6N7G / 6A65998 / 6AS7GFivre 6N7G / 6A65998 / 6AS7GMullard ECC315998 / 6AS7GC3G5998 / 6AS7G
  
 *6AS7G - means Chatham 6AS7G / 6520... and someday the GEC 6AS7G
 Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G are very similar sounding yet different. There's more sparkle in the Mazda and it's not placebo.


----------



## whirlwind

I got my dual adapter today....I have a question though....how do these tubes fit in the adapter, I was afraid to push very hard...is there a trick to getting them seated in the adapter....thanks for any advise.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I got my dual adapter today....I have a question though....how do these tubes fit in the adapter, I was afraid to push very hard...is there a trick to getting them seated in the adapter....thanks for any advise.


 

 You point the 4 closer paddles together in first and just firmly push it in. .... and hope for the best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nah you'll be fine. It should go in with a bit more force.
  
 I've got 4 in now without problems.
  
 Oh... you've the dual EL3N adapters ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Good luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@whirlwind please come back and let us know how the dual EL3N go. Thanks.


----------



## whirlwind

So push those close paddles down first....then push the otherd down....so half of the tube will be down before you push the rest of it down ?
  
 They dont push down all at once evenly....seems pretty hard fit to me....lol


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> So push those close paddles down first....then push the otherd down....so half of the tube will be down before you push the rest of it down ?
> 
> They dont push down all at once evenly....seems pretty hard fit to me....lol


 

 Yes kind of... You can't obviously get the closer paddles in completely without get the other paddles nearly there too. In other words, incline slightly and then just give it a firm push. Control force...not brute force. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Just an idea... use some Deoxit on the spring plates then slide the tubes in... easy.   Lubrication !!!


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > So push those close paddles down first....then push the otherd down....so half of the tube will be down before you push the rest of it down ?
> ...


 
 Thanks ...must be smarter than adapter


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Thanks ...must be smarter than adapter


 

 Show a picture of dual EL3N on your amp. We love pictures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Does it light up? Btw you can only see the light from the top of the tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

Will do....I am thinking I run these in the 6 volt mode, but I am not sure since there are two tubes....I will find out from Glenn.
  
 I will show you a pic ...but not powered up


----------



## whirlwind

UT...thanks much for your help on seating the tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> UT...thanks much for your help on seating the tubes.


 
 WOW they look good on your amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yes better confirm with Glenn. I bet it will sound as gorgeous as it looks LOL.
  
 ...you're welcome.. anytime.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This is starting to look like a T1 clan.
> 
> I'll share LR's feelings when he listen to my 3 headphones. He started off with the T1, close his eyes and listen intently for a full song. Hotel California from the Hell Freezes Over album. When he finished he looked at me and said, 'Big soundstage, I can hear everything. I like it'.
> Next he put on the HE560. Straight away he grimaced as he indicated to me the tight clamp. Not surprising as the T1 felt very comforting with a very relaxed clamp. He liked the sound from the HE560 just as much. The difference being the HE560 has the soundstage smaller and the musicians grouped closer together. Midrange also seem more forward and focus. I nodded in agreement. Next he tried the HD650 and remarked that it sounded less detail but have the most pronounced mid bass. Again I nodded in agreement. Then he let me listen to his  HD600. I was shocked how impactful HD600 bass sounded on Hotel California with Elise on EL3N and 5998. Very enjoyable.
> ...


 
 I will be very happy if that is the end result )))


----------



## jerick70

pctazhp said:


> I will be very happy if that is the end result )))


 

 I have to agree with @UntilThen.  The T1 is fabulous with the Elise. 
  
 You may even like the LCD 2.2.  I like it quite a bit too with the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I have to agree with @UntilThen.  The T1 is fabulous with the Elise.
> 
> You may even like the LCD 2.2.  I like it quite a bit too with the Elise.


 

 Yes the LCD2F after T1. Will have to sell Fido at this rate.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Yes the LCD2F after T1. Will have to sell Fido at this rate.


 
 You can get the LCD 2 for the same price as the T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But anyway, the headphones you should get really depend on what sound you like.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> You can get the LCD 2 for the same price as the T1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have multi likes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like Vince says, the LCD2.2 for that thunderous moment when the chandelier falls in the Phantom of the Opera. Oh yes I can imagine LCD2.2 will be great for listening to the Phantom and Christine singing. Goosebumps I reckon.


----------



## jerick70

The Dave Mathews Band is one of my favorite bands.  Dave is a genius!  Listening to this right now.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> I have multi likes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 To throw a curve ball to everyone on the new headphone bandwagon(That would be me all of the time)... Check out the Oppo PM-3.  These are outstanding headphones with a small price tag.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> The Dave Mathews Band is one of my favorite bands.  Dave is a genius!  Listening to this right now.


 
 This is really good. They call him Tom Hanks lol.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> This is really good. They call him Tom Hanks lol.


 

 Yeah these guys are incedable....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Will do, O...now you have also confirmed what would _appear_ to be the case, after studying the photo of Elise's innards Lukasz gave us (and which is on the first post of the original Elise thread).
> 
> It does indeed look like the statement made some time ago (can't remember who it was, alas!), concerning heater current draw, is probably correct after all - ie that confirmation seemed to have been received from Lukasz about the _*total*_ amps figure being more applicable than each _*separate*_ driver & power figure : on examining said photo, the heater wires for both the powers _and_ drivers definitely appear to be sharing a common supply, and not separate ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes Sir !!! Have shot Lukasz an email. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Better safe than sorry. No guessing games here or fingers crossed. 
  
 And I really think this would be his reply this time....
  


 He did think 4 EL3N as power would be ok in theory but I do so at my own risk. hehehe
  
 Meanwhile 4 EL3N are as cool as cucumbers. Elise is cold after 3 hours...as well as the power transformer.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> To throw a curve ball to everyone on the new headphone bandwagon(That would be me all of the time)... Check out the Oppo PM-3.  These are outstanding headphones with a small price tag.


 

 Why would you need so many headphones? What has the PM-3 got that the LCD2.2 and T1 doesn't have? Pretty soon you'll need a wall rack just to hang all your headphones. 
  
 T1 is sounding so good right now. Bought it on the 7th Jan and still so engrossed over it. I find myself listening to all my music again on JRiver. Probably it's a combination of new things. New EL3N tubes and new software player in JRiver, which really sound good.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I will be very happy if that is the end result )))


 

 Your progress has been the fastest amongst us all. You have most of the choice tubes and now you're getting the T1. Looks like it's still Christmas for you Pct.
  
@aqsw have your EL3N adapters arrived yet? Someone should buy the Mazdas off aqsw. Those are very good sounding tubes. Looking at @jerick70 and @B-60 .


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Your progress has been the fastest amongst us all. You have most of the choice tubes and now you're getting the T1. Looks like it's still Christmas for you Pct.
> 
> @aqsw have your EL3N adapters arrived yet? Someone should buy the Mazdas off aqsw. Those are very good sounding tubes. Looking at @jerick70 and @B-60 .


 
 My adapters have not arrived yet. Should be here any day now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mrs Xu Ling has the dual 6BL7 adapters ready:

Get out your wallets' boys:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201511879930


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Your progress has been the fastest amongst us all. You have most of the choice tubes and now you're getting the T1. Looks like it's still Christmas for you Pct.
> 
> @aqsw have your EL3N adapters arrived yet? Someone should buy the Mazdas off aqsw. Those are very good sounding tubes. Looking at @jerick70 and @B-60 .


 
 Well I certainly have acquired quite a few bulbs - most of which I'm afraid will never see much use. I'm mainly using the EL3N in the driver sockets. And for some reason, I keep going back to the Parts Express GE6AS7GAs in the power sockets. As I mentioned earlier, I suspect my pair of 5998 are probably not as good as they should be.
  
 Will see how the new T1s affect my preferences, if at all.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Mrs Xu Ling has the dual 6BL7 adapters ready:
> 
> Get out your wallets' boys:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201511879930


 
 To use a favorite expression of UT, "Oh brother!!!"
  
 I have 4 6BL7s on the way. I don't want to invest in body armor, but I'll probably order a pair of these anyway - if for no other reason to have such a unique and beautiful creation ))))


----------



## mordy

If you are interested in trying the VE Monk earbud, it is in stock now. I can really recommend this item - absolutely fantastic for the money (around $8 incl shipping):
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html?spm=2114.30011108.0.787.RXGiaK&af=85386&dp=6378_1453822778_533aa7dc1c0e5491e9bfe6f95a157def
  
 It is not a T1, but for something to use on the go, you would have to spend many times more for something better in earbuds.
  
 Did anybody try them yet?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Dual 6BL7 adapters are $2.00 ea cheaper here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191792226144


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hang with Roland has he has a little fun with "My Girl"...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmxBaRelHR0[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Well I certainly have acquired quite a few bulbs - most of which I'm afraid will never see much use. I'm mainly using the EL3N in the driver sockets. And for some reason, I keep going back to the Parts Express GE6AS7GAs in the power sockets. As I mentioned earlier, I suspect my pair of 5998 are probably not as good as they should be.
> 
> Will see how the new T1s affect my preferences, if at all.


 

 Well I keep going back to quad EL3N.    EL3N and GE 6AS7GA should be a good combination. I've covered that and a photo of it is lost somewhere back there. 
  
 Can you describe a bit more about why you think the 5998 are not as good as you think they should be? As in are they not good in physical shape or the sound doesn't appeal to you as much.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Mrs Xu Ling has the dual 6BL7 adapters ready:
> 
> Get out your wallets' boys:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201511879930


 
  
 Yep JV...they look _real_ cool, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - *HOWEVER, FOLKS**...BE WARNED!!*... have had a reply from Lukasz, and although he's fairly confident @UntilThen's 4x EL3N powers _should_ be OK - no _official_ endorsement though, of course - I get the definite impression that anything _*more*_ would probably be pushing it. Therefore, the 7.8A total for 4x 6BL7s + 2x EL3N drivers - or even 7.2A using 6SN7 drivers - I personally would say is a definite *NO GO!!* You would be doing this _*at your own peril, lol!*_...The only safe way to do so would, of course, be with an external power supply...._*Be careful out there!*_...CHEERS!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yep JV...they look _real_ cool, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks H1 for the confirmation from Lukasz. It's good to know he said the same thing to you about 4 EL3N as power tube as he did to me. 
  
 I send out my email yesterday on 4 6BL7 as power tubes so obviously will get a response much later but he has already told you. In the light of that, I won't proceed with 4 6BL7 as power tubes because it's certainly pushing it as you say and also I won't be going with external power supply anymore other than on FDD20. So I'll try the GE 6BL7 GTA as 2 power tubes and not as 4.
  
 I would urge everyone to heed this warning too. Don't blow her up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Yep JV...they look _real_ cool, lol! :bigsmile_face: - *HOWEVER, FOLKS**...BE WARNED!!*... have had a reply from Lukasz, and although he's fairly confident @UntilThen
> 's 4x EL3N powers _should_ be OK - no _official_ endorsement though, of course - I get the definite impression that anything _*more*_ would probably be pushing it. Therefore, the 7.8A total for 4x 6BL7s + 2x EL3N drivers - or even 7.2A using 6SN7 drivers - I personally would say is a definite *NO GO!!* You would be doing this _*at your own peril, lol!*_...The only safe way to do so would, of course, be with an external power supply...._*Be careful out there!*_...CHEERS!!




Good, thanks for reminding, all, H1.

You either need to externally heat your (4) 6BL7's, which you could easily do with this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191741357847

or

Heat your driver tubes externally (with the same item listed above).

Seems like heating the quad 6BL7's might be handier, since you could then change drivers' at will.

There is a detailed review of using quad 6BL7's (on a Glenn amp) here:

http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier

Cheers...





.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Well I certainly have acquired quite a few bulbs - most of which I'm afraid will never see much use. I'm mainly using the EL3N in the driver sockets. And for some reason, I keep going back to the Parts Express GE6AS7GAs in the power sockets. As I mentioned earlier, I suspect my pair of 5998 are probably not as good as they should be.
> 
> Will see how the new T1s affect my preferences, if at all.


 

 Prior to EL3N appearing on the scene, I've always felt that 5998 sounded very much more different than the other power tubes. It's more dynamic. Even if you compensate in volume to match the 5998 extra gain, it's still more dynamic sounding than the other 3 power tubes that I always refer to. Which is a blessing at times but on a late night listen, I prefer a mellower power tube.
  
 However, with EL3N in the driver seat, power tubes differences aren't that great anymore. They are there but not as great as before. I think this is also confirmed by H1 when he shared the GEC 6AS7G and Chatham 6AS7G with EL3N in the driver's seat. I think you yourself said that too @pctazhp ... about power tubes not making that much difference with EL3N in the drivers seat.
  
 I notice that with EL3N driving EL3N as power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I've just removed EL3N and replaced with RCA 6AS7GA as power tubes. A bit different sounding but appeal to me just as much. I could live happily with all these setup. I'm really glad that for me at least, I do not feel the need to stock up on 5998 anymore.
  
 Will try the GE6AS7GA shortly to see if I can detect a difference in sound between the RCA and GE version of 6AS7GA.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Well I keep going back to quad EL3N.    EL3N and GE 6AS7GA should be a good combination. I've covered that and a photo of it is lost somewhere back there.
> 
> Can you describe a bit more about why you think the 5998 are not as good as you think they should be? As in are they not good in physical shape or the sound doesn't appeal to you as much.


 
 Physical condition is fine. Not yet sure about the sound. I'm on a roll today with the 6AS7GA's today, but will put the 5998s in tomorrow and pay more attention.
  
 But as you mentioned in a later post, seems that power tubes are indeed a little less important with EL3Ns as drivers.
  
 A box I haven't opened has arrived. Maybe it's the second set of EL3N adapters. If so, I'll also be trying the quad EL3N approach.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Physical condition is fine. Not yet sure about the sound. I'm on a roll today with the 6AS7GA's today, but will put the 5998s in tomorrow and pay more attention.
> 
> But as you mentioned in a later post, seems that power tubes are indeed a little less important with EL3Ns as drivers.
> 
> A box I haven't opened has arrived. Maybe it's the second set of EL3N adapters. If so, I'll also be trying the quad EL3N approach.


 





 there's no thumbs up symbol so this will do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let's see what your experiences are with quad EL3N.
  
 I'm really smiling crazily now. All these setups sound so good with EL3N in the drivers seat. Now I really wonder what 4xEL3N as power tubes will give me. Maybe 10% more for US$85 or blow Elise up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Yo @whirlwind how's dual EL3N going in your amp? Have you power it up yet?


----------



## pctazhp

I get amused reading the debates that rage on other threads on subjects such as (1) do cables make a difference, (2) burn-in, (3) balanced vs se, (4) tubes vs solid state, (5) objective vs subjective, (6) analog vs digital, (7) etc. These arguments have been going on for at least 35 years, and with all the millions of words that have been written and spoken, resolution or agreement is not any closer on any of the subjects than it was back in the 70s. Everything that could possibly be said on each subject has already been said. Just not everyone has had a chance to repeat what has already been said Ad Nauseam !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I get amused reading the debates that rage on other threads on subjects such as (1) do cables make a difference, (2) burn-in, (3) balanced vs se, (4) tubes vs solid state, (5) objective vs subjective, (6) analog vs digital, (7) etc. These arguments have been going on for at least 35 years, and with all the millions of words that have been written and spoken, resolution or agreement is not any closer on any of the subjects than it was back in the 70s. Everything that could possibly be said on each subject has already been said. Just not everyone has had a chance to repeat what has already been said Ad Nauseam !!!!


 

 Ok never mind what they are debating but listen to this on quad EL3N and tell me if it did take your breath away or make you roll your eyes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 
  
 35 years? I thought they were debating this during the dinosaurs era. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'll make a bet with @B-60 .. bring his Elise with Cardas power cord vs my Elise with plain Jane power cord.... and see which sound better. Prize is a pair of 1635 tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hang with Roland as he has a LOT of FUN with the Bread song: "Make It With You":

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYVXOOYNuFo[/VIDEO]


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ok never mind what they are debating but listen to this on quad EL3N and tell me if it did take your breath away or make you roll your eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 I think I might have subconsciously written that last pointless post just to irritate you)))) But, sorry, I have bad news. The box was the 4 6BL7 tubes I've been waiting for - not the EL3N adapters
  
 "Take My Breath Away" - what a great sound!!! Even better - Kelly McGillis ))))


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Hang with Roland as he has a LOT of FUN with the Bread song: "Make It With You"


 
 Roland version is very interesting. I hear very interesting sound coming from left, right and centre.
  
 But this is my childhood song and I go buttery listening to it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I think I might have subconsciously written that last pointless post just to irritate you)))) But, sorry, I have bad news. *The box was the 4 6BL7 tubes I've been waiting for - not the EL3N adapters*
> 
> "Take My Breath Away" - what a great sound!!! Even better - Kelly McGillis ))))


 
 You what?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Try the 2 6BL7 as power tubes with EL3N as drivers and tell us which is better .... objective or subjective.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You what?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OK. I just turned the Elise off. Will let it cool down, then pop 2 of the 6BL7s in the power sockets, and see if we have lift-off.
  
 To be perfectly accurate, they are really RCA 6BL7GTAs, so I don't know if they are any good or not???


----------



## UntilThen

Alright @pctazhp let me humour you and talk about Michelangelo vs Leonardo. The former created the statue of David amongst other great things and the latter was responsible for Mona Lisa. So who is better? Who knows !!!!!!!! It's like all the things you mentioned.
  
 Read this rivalry here...
  
 http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2002/oct/22/artsfeatures.highereducation


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > Physical condition is fine. Not yet sure about the sound. I'm on a roll today with the 6AS7GA's today, but will put the 5998s in tomorrow and pay more attention.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, Glenn told me to run them at 6.3 volts...so that is what I am doing...hoping to get them burned in in a few days......my initial impressions are that I think I am going to like them, but i know they will open up with some burn in.
  

  

  
  
 I have been listening to a few blues albums and  enjoying them...thanks again for your assistance in getting the tubes seated in the adapter sockets, much appreciated.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright @pctazhp let me humour you and talk about Michelangelo vs Leonardo. The former created the statue of David amongst other great things and the latter was responsible for Mona Lisa. So who is better? Who knows !!!!!!!! It's like all the things you mentioned.
> 
> Read this rivalry here...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2002/oct/22/artsfeatures.highereducation


 
 Very interesting. I noticed the article mentioned "Stendhal syndrome, the illness caused by aesthetic excitement that afflicts several visitors to Florence every year." Is it possible that is what we Elise-lovers are all suffering???
  
 Oh, almost forgot )) Just plugged in the 6BL7s and fired them up. So far, I really like them. Just have about 20 minutes on them at this point. They are very smooth, detailed and the sound stage is very nicely layered. I can already tell that I could listen to these little gems for hours without any sense of fatigue. They seem very engrossing. The bass is a little weak, but it integrates nicely with the mid-range. What is that???? Am I actually feeling goose bumps???
  
 The 6BL7s seem so small and of little consequence or importance. But so far they are pumping out very BIG, GLORIOUS SOUND!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Yes, Glenn told me to run them at 6.3 volts...so that is what I am doing...hoping to get them burned in in a few days......*my initial impressions are that I think I am going to like them*, but i know they will open up with some burn in.
> 
> I have been listening to a few blues albums and  enjoying them...thanks again for your assistance in getting the tubes seated in the adapter sockets, much appreciated.


 
 You think you're going to like them huh?! That's like telling Leonardo that you might like his Mona Lisa. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's encouraging.
  
 Anytime whirlwind. Feel free to share as the EL3N develops with burn in here.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Very interesting. I noticed the article mentioned "Stendhal syndrome, the illness caused by aesthetic excitement that afflicts several visitors to Florence every year." Is it possible that is what we Elise-lovers are all suffering???
> 
> Oh, almost forgot )) Just plugged in the 6BL7s and fired them up. So far, I really like them. Just have about 20 minutes on them at this point. They are very smooth, detailed and the sound stage is very nicely layered. I can already tell that I could listen to these little gems for hours without any sense of fatigue. They seem very engrossing. The bass is a little weak, but it integrates nicely with the mid-range. What is that???? Am I actually feeling goose bumps???
> 
> The 6BL7s seem so small and of little consequence or importance. But so far they are pumping out very BIG, GLORIOUS SOUND!!!!


 

 That is very encouraging. It's like telling Michelangelo that his statute of David looks nice. Now where are my General Electric 6BL7GTA ?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> That is very encouraging. It's like telling Michelangelo that his statute of David looks nice. Now where are my General Electric 6BL7GTA ?


 
 Quick update. There's nothing wrong with the 6BL7GTA bass. It was the material I was listening to. They do quite well with this:


----------



## pctazhp

And this:


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Roland version is very interesting. I hear very interesting sound coming from left, right and centre.
> 
> But this is my childhood song and I go buttery listening to it.




Think all but one original member has passed away.



Here's a factoid for you all...when someone posts a video and you reply (pctazhp), you can edit out the line that contains the video link, so that it's not posted again...

Erase all between the 

iframe /iframe

tags...

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> The 6BL7s seem so small and of little consequence or importance. But so far they are pumping out very BIG, GLORIOUS SOUND!!!!




You have them in the driver position?

:rolleyes:


----------



## pctazhp

This combination of EL3N/6BL7 is clearly the best combination I've tried so far. It is highly musical. There is sparkle in the high end, male and female voices both have natural body, and the bass is hard hitting when its in the recording.
  
 The position of voices and instruments in the sound stage are both precise and realistic. Again to use an old cliche, but I really can hear the space between the voices and the instruments.
  
 I realize how much some of the power tubes I've been using tended to smear and limit the dynamics. The 6BL7s seem to allow the EL3Ns to open up and perform their magic.
  
 This is really exciting
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





jazzvinyl said:


> You have them in the driver position?


 
 Power


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Power




And they affect your sound that much? Interesting. I find 1x in the power position to be very weak/anemic.

:rolleyes:


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> And they affect your sound that much? Interesting. I find 1x in the power position to be very weak/anemic.


 
This combination of EL3N/6BL7 is clearly the best combination I've tried so far. It is highly musical. There is sparkle in the high end, male and female voices both have natural body, and the bass is hard hitting when its in the recording. The mid-range is crystal clear.
 
The position of voices and instruments in the sound stage are both precise and realistic. Again to use an old cliche, but I really can hear the space between the voices and the instruments.
 
I realize how much some of the power tubes I've been using tended to smear and limit the dynamics. The 6BL7s seem to allow the EL3Ns to open up and perform their magic.
 
This is really exciting


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> This combination of EL3N/6BL7 is clearly the best combination I've tried so far. It is highly musical. There is sparkle in the high end, male and female voices both have natural body, and the bass is hard hitting when its in the recording. The mid-range is crystal clear.
> 
> The position of voices and instruments in the sound stage are both precise and realistic. Again to use an old cliche, but I really can hear the space between the voices and the instruments.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. I'll await my 6BL7 to find out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Would be interesting if this impression remains after one week of usage @pctazhp . It could well be better with 6BL7 burn in.


----------



## pctazhp

Sorry everyone for the double post. I'm pretty excited right now. I just need to listen and not try to post any more tonight.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Sorry everyone for the double post. I'm pretty excited right now. I just need to listen and not try to post any more tonight.


 

 Haha it's ok. Feel free to share. It's really exciting to see your enthusiasm. Wait till you get T1 tomorrow or day after. You'll be triple posting and I guess forgo your sleep.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> This is really exciting




Great! Lets hope 2x 6BL7's per side really amp up the excitement 

Cheers to the *LUCKY* ones!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Haha it's ok. Feel free to share. It's really exciting to see your enthusiasm. Wait till you get T1 tomorrow or day after. You'll be triple posting and I guess forgo your sleep.


 
 UT:  This is no small improvement. It has taken my Elise to an entirely new level. I'm trying to be restrained in my words, but I don't recall a change from my audiophile days or my recent entry into headphone-land that made this noticeable of an improvement.
  
 I've been listening to an album I'm very familiar with and that I've mentioned before - John Stewart's  "The Phoenix Concerts-Live" Talk about cymbals - there are cymbals in the first two tracks I have never heard before. They may have been there but I never noticed them. John's beautiful voice is so real and immediate it just is mesmerizing. The guitar is the instrument I am the most familiar with and his guitar sounds like a real guitar Every stroke of the strings is palpable and sounds exactly as I think it should sound.
  
 But what is really impressing me is the opening up of the dynamics. Everything I can remember hearing so far on the Elise up to this point has by comparison been dynamically challenged.
  
 My favorite track from the album - California Bloodlines - truly brought tears to my eyes. The guitar picking at the beginning is so realistic it is uncanny. And the wild "Never Going Back to Nashville Anymore" track just rocks out in all directions.Every instrument is on steroids.
  
 I guess there is one other thing I may have mentioned but am really noticing - that is how well the bass is integrated into the rest of the frequency curve. I think that is because it is so well controlled but also hard hitting.
  
 Also, need to mention that the background is absolutely DEAD SILENT!!!
  
 A couple of observations. I'm having to turn up my volume about a click (one hour), but I'm still at 11:00 and it is very loud at that level. Also, the 6BL7s seems to be running hotter than the others I've had in there, but the amp is running normal. Maybe small tubes running in power mode run extra hot.
  
 The T1 is due here Thursday )))


----------



## pctazhp

Wow. And just a few hours I was saying that power tubes don't seem to make much of a difference


----------



## JazzVinyl

One for Lukasz and his dad...

Someone running "close to" the original spec tubes (and it's sounding very fun & professional).

Ken Rad VT231 and 5998's...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Wow. And just a few hours I was saying that power tubes don't seem to make much of a difference


 

 Haha I shall find out soon.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  This is no small improvement. It has taken my Elise to an entirely new level. I'm trying to be restrained in my words, but I don't recall a change from my audiophile days or my recent entry into headphone-land that made this noticeable of an improvement.
> 
> I've been listening to an album I'm very familiar with and that I've mentioned before - John Stewart's  "The Phoenix Concerts-Live" Talk about cymbals - there are cymbals in the first two tracks I have never heard before. They may have been there but I never noticed them. John's beautiful voice is so real and immediate it just is mesmerizing. The guitar is the instrument I am the most familiar with and his guitar sounds like a real guitar Every stroke of the strings is palpable and sounds exactly as I think it should sound.
> 
> ...


 

 WOW, I've to reread this twice. I'm really scratching my head now how different impressions have been lately but I thank you truly for a well written constructive post. Like I say, I'm now very curious to hear it for myself this EL3N and 6BL7GTA pairing. Let me feel your magic.


----------



## UntilThen

What happens if I use EL3N as driver and 1635 as power?
  
*1635*
 Duotriode, low-distortion high-µ Class B type, low-heater-current, T9 bulb on octal base; heater 6.3V @ 600 mA, µ 65, 3.3 W (RCA, W). Dev. for government use; "particularly used for underwater sound" (sonar?}. Announced by RCA 1942; sales limited to existing inventory 1971. [Information by L. Sibley] 
 Since this tube is operated without negative bias, it requires a high-µ characteristic to keep the plate current low. This is achieved by using two separate control grids connected in parallel inside the bulb.


----------



## aqsw

I'm sitting center ice at the Winnipeg Jets game (nhl) and Im checking out the Elise thread. This is stoopid. 
Jets are winning 3-0.

Still no adapters.
I put my Mazdas and 5998s on Ebay. 
I love my Elise, but I feel I might have got a lemon.
If the El3Ns dont work, I'm going to have to say bye.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> WOW, I've to reread this twice. I'm really scratching my head now how different impressions have been lately but I thank you truly for a well written constructive post. Like I say, I'm now very curious to hear it for myself this EL3N and 6BL7GTA pairing. Let me feel your magic.


 

 I realize my experience with this combination may not be repeatable anywhere else on this planet. But it is certainly real for me.
  
 I had to go out to run some errands. As I was driving around I got to thinking about power tubes. I'm certainly no electrical engineer - very far from it. And what I'm about to say probably doesn't even rise to the level of junk science. But as I understand it, power tubes (at least in the Elise) do not amplify voltage - only current. I further understand that it is the job of the drivers to amplify the voltage. It seems to me that voltage is what is going to determine the shape of the electrical waveform. And the waveform as it is handed off (I know - junk science language) from the driver to the power tubes will be at its most accurate form before it gets to the phones. It would therefore seem to me that the job of the power tube is to do as little damage to the waveform as possible and supply sufficient current to the phones to keep them under control - to enable them to reproduce the waveform as accurately as possible. We know that is probably the most difficult job of all, because the phones are the interface between the electrical waveform and the physical waveform that enters our ears.
  
 I know this is probably all science fiction. But if any part of it is accurate the only conclusion this leaves me with is to reconsider my earlier thought that choice of power tubes may not be too important.


----------



## aqsw

What really makes me mad is, I sold my beloved LCD 2.2s going after the 600 ohm T1s, that I thought would solve my problems.
Didn't like the T1s and sent them back. Now I don't have my LCDs anymore. No problem solved.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> What really makes me mad is, I sold my beloved LCD 2.2s going after the 600 ohm T1s, that I thought would solve my problems.
> Didn't like the T1s and sent them back. Now I don't have my LCDs anymore. No problem solved.


 
 I feel your pain @aqsw.  The LCD 2.2s are incredible headphones.  I may never part with mine.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> What really makes me mad is, I sold my beloved LCD 2.2s going after the 600 ohm T1s, that I thought would solve my problems.
> Didn't like the T1s and sent them back. Now I don't have my LCDs anymore. No problem solved.




Wow...that is a run of bad luck, aqsw...

Will you send Elise in for repair, its under warranty...?

Hope the new tubes work for you.

:rolleyes:


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I'm sitting center ice at the Winnipeg Jets game (nhl) and Im checking out the Elise thread. This is stoopid.
> Jets are winning 3-0.
> 
> Still no adapters.
> ...


 

 What problems are you having with the Elise?  Sorry I missed your posts on the issues you're having.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow...that is a run of bad luck, aqsw...
> 
> Will you send Elise in for repair, its under warranty...?
> 
> ...




Im pretty sure I would be rejected warranty as Im not using the Stock tubes.

Stock tubes sound fine, but everybody else is getting so much more than me.

I really don't get it, as they are all made the same. How can one be so much bettrr than the next?


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> What problems are you having with the Elise?  Sorry I missed your posts on the issues you're having.




Distortion after 10 oclock, usually with ST tubes. My Mazdas were unlistenable. Distortion right from the beginning.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> Distortion after 10 oclock, usually with ST tubes. My Mazdas were unlistenable. Distortion right from the beginning.


 
 That really bites!  I wonder what the difference is between your Elise and others? 
  
 With my LCD 2.2s I can crank it all the way up (LCD 2s are not on my ears) and there is no distortion.  This is with Chatham copper rods and EL3Ns.
  
 Have you tried other sources? Interconnects? power cords? AC outlets? Not plugged into a power conditioner or power strip?


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> That really bites!  I wonder what the difference is between your Elise and others?
> 
> With my LCD 2.2s I can crank it all the way up (LCD 2s are not on my ears) and there is no distortion.  This is with Chatham copper rods and EL3Ns.
> 
> Have you tried other sources? Interconnects? power cords? AC outlets? Not plugged into a power conditioner or power strip?



I've tried it all.


----------



## aqsw

Best sound I get is with 6080 powers and 2031. It gets hot, but I cn crank her to 12 oclock with no distortion.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I've tried it all.


 

 It must be a bad amp.  I would contact Lukasz.  He'll take care of you. 
  
 I don't think they will invalidate your warranty.  They have a section in the manual for tweaking the Elise with rolling tubes. It's one of the big selling points of the Elise.  The pic below is from the last page of the manual.  http://feliksau.unixstorm.org/pliki/elise_en.pdf


----------



## aqsw

I sent Lucasz a note about my problems. We will see!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I sent Lucasz a note about my problems. We will see!




Alright, good man, let's see if this gets resolved....


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I sent Lucasz a note about my problems. We will see!


 

 A few other thoughts. 
  
 1) Did you try lifting the ground on Elise and your DAC?  You may have a ground loop problem. 
  
 2) If you are connecting to a PC or Mac via USB you may want to cut the power that the computer is supplying to the DAC.  Put a piece of tape of the +5V pin of the USB A connector that plugs into your computer.  +5V is pin 1 in the pictures below.  See pics below.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> I feel your pain @aqsw
> .  The LCD 2.2s are incredible headphones.  I may never part with mine.




Don't do it.
Im using my Oppo PM3s and my Ether Cs with the Elise right now.
I'm not without, but I miss my LCDs. I miss the bass.

The Ether Cs are phenominal. They sound so much better than the T1s I had for about one day.
JMO, as there are alot of T1 fans here.

I'm not kicked out yet, am I ?


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I'm not kicked out yet, am I ?




LOL, I don't have T1's either (nothing against them) and my system does sound pretty good, none the less..

6080 and 6SN7, how were they, for distortion? Sorry if you already stated it, earlier.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> A few other thoughts.
> 
> 1) Did you try lifting the ground on Elise and your DAC?  You may have a ground loop problem.
> 
> 2) If you are connecting to a PC or Mac via USB you may want to cut the power that the computer is supplying to the DAC.  Put a piece of tape of the +5V pin of the USB A connector that plugs into your computer.  +5V is pin 1 in the pictures below.  See pics below.



1 - Don't understand
2 - No USB involved.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> Don't do it.
> Im using my Oppo PM3s and my Ether Cs with the Elise right now.
> I'm not without, but I miss my LCDs. I miss the bass.
> 
> ...


 
 You are absolutely NOT kicked out.  You are welcome here any time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  This hobby is to subjective for any sort of division.  Aren't we all here for the same thing... to find the greatest audio nirvana that our wallets can handle? 
  
 I have the T1s and they are good, but I prefer my LCD2s and PM-3s.  So I'm with you aqsw. 
  
 You've peaked my interest with your description of the Ethers.  I need to get a hold of some Ethers.  I've wanted to listen to a pair for a while.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL, I don't have T1's either (nothing against them) and my system does sound pretty good, none the less..
> 
> 6080 and 6SN7, how were they, for distortion? Sorry if you already stated it, earlier.




My system sounds pretty good until you put an ST valve in. Then the distortion starts.
6080s are good. 5998s are bad. WHY


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> You are absolutely NOT kicked out.  You are welcome here any time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I couldnt get rid of the T1s fast enough. I sure miss my 2.2s


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> 1 - Don't understand
> 2 - No USB involved.


 

 To lift the ground on an electronic component, with an AC plug (All of our audio equipment) you can use a cheater plug like the pic below. It doesn't have a ground pin.  Ground loops can cause all kinds of problems.  I won't go into detail, but you can read more about ground loops here http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/groundlift.html .


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I couldnt get rid of the T1s fast enough. I sure miss my 2.2s


 
  
 You can pick-up a pair of demos LCD 2.2s from HiFiHeaven for pretty inexpensive.  I've dealt with them on my speaker rig purchase and they were great to deal with.
  
 http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Audeze/Audeze-LCD-2-Planar-Magnetic-Headphone-and-Travel-Case-Display-Model


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> You are absolutely NOT kicked out.  You are welcome here any time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got the closed version of Ether. I thought I would never do that, but I really like them. All I can say is WOW!
The PM3s are also closed. I ABSOLUTELY love them. They give 80% of the sound for 400.00.
I think you and I are alike in our headphone preferences.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> To lift the ground on an electronic component, with an AC plug (All of our audio equipment) you can use a cheater plug like the pic below. It doesn't have a ground pin.  Ground loops can cause all kinds of problems.  I won't go into detail, but you can read more about ground loops here http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/groundlift.html




Ground loops cause HUM problems, right?

He has distortion, not Hum....


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> To lift the ground on an electronic component, with an AC plug (All of our audio equipment) you can use a cheater plug like the pic below. It doesn't have a ground pin.  Ground loops can cause all kinds of problems.  I won't go into detail, but you can read more about ground loops here http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/groundlift.html .




I'm totally grounded!,


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> Ground loops cause HUM problems, right?
> 
> He has distortion, not Hum....


 
 Just a shot in the dark.


----------



## aqsw

No hum, all distortion.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I got the closed version of Ether. I thought I would never do that, but I really like them. All I can say is WOW!
> The PM3s are also closed. I ABSOLUTELY love them. They give 80% of the sound for 400.00.
> I think you and I are alike in our headphone preferences.


 
 It looks like exactly the same tastes.  I've gone through so many pairs of headphones and finally found the LCD 2.  I prefer it to any of the other LCD family. Visceral bass anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 For listening at work the PM-3 is perfect.  Small on your head but huge on sound.  I had a pair of Alpha Primes but got sick of everybody snickering at me and saying I looked like an airplane pilot.  I ended up selling them.  I actually prefer the PM-3 to the Alpha series.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> You can pick-up a pair of demos LCD 2.2s from HiFiHeaven for pretty inexpensive.  I've dealt with them on my speaker rig purchase and they were great to deal with.
> 
> http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Audeze/Audeze-LCD-2-Planar-Magnetic-Headphone-and-Travel-Case-Display-Model




The exchange rate kills me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> It looks like exactly the same tastes.  I've gone through so many pairs of headphones and finally found the LCD 2.  I prefer it to any of the other LCD family. Visceral bass anyone? :L3000




They look nice, wish I could hear them.


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> The exchange rate kills me.


 

 Ah that's right you're in Canada. 
  
 Canada is such a enjoyable place.  When I was young, I lived just across the border from British Columbia in Washington State.  Those were the days when there were open boarders.  We'd go on vacation to BC all the time, it was so beautiful!  There were the way cool live forts and the Capilano suspension bridge. Great memories!


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> They look nice, wish I could hear them.


 

 JV you will LOVE them!!!!!  They sound incredible with vinyl.....


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> It looks like exactly the same tastes.  I've gone through so many pairs of headphones and finally found the LCD 2.  I prefer it to any of the other LCD family. Visceral bass anyone?
> 
> For listening at work the PM-3 is perfect.  Small on your head but huge on sound.  I had a pair of Alpha Primes but got sick of everybody snickering at me and saying I looked like an airplane pilot.  I ended up selling them.  I actually prefer the PM-3 to the Alpha series.



my pm3s are on my desk right now. The perfect office phone.


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> It looks like exactly the same tastes.  I've gone through so many pairs of headphones and finally found the LCD 2.  I prefer it to any of the other LCD family. Visceral bass anyone?
> 
> For listening at work the PM-3 is perfect.  Small on your head but huge on sound.  I had a pair of Alpha Primes but got sick of everybody snickering at me and saying I looked like an airplane pilot.  I ended up selling them.  I actually prefer the PM-3 to the Alpha series.



my pm3s are on my desk right now. The perfect office phone.sorry , my internet stopped, double post.

PM 3s are still perfect!


----------



## jerick70

@aqsw here is a killer deal on LCD-2s  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Audeze-LCD2-Headband-Headphones-Rosewood-w-Frazor-Silver-Toxic-cable-/331763552461?hash=item4d3ea610cd:g:KAsAAOSwGotWl-yX


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> JV you will LOVE them!!!!!  They sound incredible with vinyl.....




Oh boy...I'd have to sell some goodies


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> my pm3s are on my desk right now. The perfect office phone.sorry , my internet stopped, double post.
> 
> PM 3s are still perfect!


 

 I think the PM-3 is the best portable headphone made. And the price tag is scrumptious.


----------



## jerick70

jazzvinyl said:


> Oh boy...I'd have to sell some goodies


 

 You can pickup a pair for not to much.  I've seen them in the sub-$700 range lately. The link I gave to aqsw is in the US and it's rock bottom for a like new pair.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> I think the PM-3 is the best portable headphone made. And the price tag is scrumptious.




You guys stop! Your makin' me want that THANG!!!


----------



## jerick70

Well I'm signing off for the night.  Gotta get some sleep.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> Well I'm signing off for the night.  Gotta get some sleep.




Night...


----------



## aqsw

jerick70 said:


> I think the PM-3 is the best portable headphone made. And the price tag is scrumptious.



I agree, and I am the new high bidder on the rosewood lcds.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I agree, and I am the new high bidder on the rosewood lcds.




They sure look great! Luck on the auction...


----------



## DecentLevi

pctazhp said:


> This combination of EL3N/6BL7 is clearly the best combination I've tried so far. It is highly musical. There is sparkle in the high end, male and female voices both have natural body, and the bass is hard hitting when its in the recording. The mid-range is crystal clear.
> 
> The position of voices and instruments in the sound stage are both precise and realistic. Again to use an old cliche, but I really can hear the space between the voices and the instruments.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow this setup sounds really promising! So does it seem the 6BL7 solve that missing treble of the EL3N's? And do these need an adapter? Also, it's the GE's right?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Wow this setup sounds really promising! So does it seem the 6BL7 solve that missing treble of the EL3N's? And do these need an adapter? Also, it's the GE's right?


 
 What missing treble? If you believe that you can believe anything. I can't believe what's been said about EL3N. Total ignorance.


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> Wow this setup sounds really promising! So does it seem the 6BL7 solve that missing treble of the EL3N's? And do these need an adapter? Also, it's the GE's right?


 
 DL: I didn't experience a lack of treble running the EL3Ns with other power tubes. Maybe a little lack of sparkle with some of the other power tubes. But with the 6BL7s the treble is not rolled off and there is plenty of sparkle. The treble (as is the mid-range and bass) very clean - at least on my setup.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> What missing treble? If you believe that you can believe anything. I can't believe what's been said about EL3N. Total ignorance.




Now now UT that wasn't very nice, was it.

I realise this is a religion to you and you don't tolerate dissenters, but please don't insinuate that I am a liar and call me "ignorant" you know that was a low blow, and completely uncalled for. 

SHAME ON YOU!!

:mad:


----------



## Suuup

I just ordered a pair of EL6. They're 18W power tubes, but less when triode-strapped of course, and has the exact same pin layout as the EL3N, so the adapters will work for those as well. 1.3A of current draw, so only usable as power tubes, except if supplied with external heating. 45$ shipped for a pair. Hopefully they can replace the 5998, or at least complement them. No idea how this will turn out. Hoping for the best.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Best sound I get is with 6080 powers and 2031. It gets hot, but I cn crank her to 12 oclock with no distortion.


 
  
 That sure is weird re the ST shaped powers, aqsw - did you have the stock 6N13S's at all, and if so how were they?
 What different STs have you been able to try?...you're sure they themselves are OK?
  
 I do hope Lukasz might be able to shed some light on this....
  
 At worst, if you get no problems with 6080s and 2031, you are already well up there in the sound quality stakes lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








.
  
 And perhaps the EL3Ns will solve the other 'Coke Bottle' problems...we all hope they do...these sorts of things can indeed be _very_ frustrating! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(as with @JazzVinyl's faulty EL3Ns. At least those dodgy ebay tubes would seem to be a clear cut case for return, considering they went from really good to c**p in such a short time - which certainly did have us all scratching our heads, to say the least!! That particular ebayer needs sorting, to be sure, and hopefully would do the decent thing for JV, and anyone else who may have had similar misfortune...).
  
 Best wishes to all who may not quite be _quite_ the 100% LUCKY ONES! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  


suuup said:


> I just ordered a pair of EL6. They're 18W power tubes, but less when triode-strapped of course, and has the exact same pin layout as the EL3N, so the adapters will work for those as well. 1.3A of current draw, so only usable as power tubes, except if supplied with external heating. 45$ shipped for a pair. Hopefully they can replace the 5998, or at least complement them. No idea how this will turn out. Hoping for the best.


 
  
 That sounds very interesting Suuup...look forward to your results - GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Now now UT that wasn't very nice, was it.
> 
> I realise this is a religion to you and you don't tolerate dissenters, but please don't insinuate that I am a liar and call me "ignorant" you know that was a low blow, and completely uncalled for.
> 
> SHAME ON YOU!!


 

 I know this kind of things will flare up and I'm not surprised you're in the thick of it again. You say that EL3N has NO TREBLE and suddenly even @DecentLevi who has not heard the tube believe you. This is about responsible reporting.
  
 3 weeks ago you say that the EL3N is so good it sounded like a $5000 phono cartridge. Your post is still there plus the one I link where you say EL3N beats FDD20 easily and you guarantee it. Now after 3 weeks of burning in, you say it sounds like low pass filter. I suppose you will guarantee it as well this time. I don't know what your secret agenda is but having a 360 degrees turn around in opinion in 3 weeks is suspicious. FYI burn in does not turn a tube into garbage.
  
 If you think I'lll hang around and waste my time with such weird discussions you can think again.
  
 It has nothing to do with my not tolerating dissenters but these kind of claims are what kills a thread.
  
 So it's SHAME ON YOU if Elise thread is close a 2nd time again.


----------



## pctazhp

It would be a real bummer if this thread closed or died 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the main reason I come to Head-Fi. 
  
 I'm not sure anyone is still around, but I will report that my enthusiasm for the EL3N/6BL7 combo has not diminished. When I've had time this morning I've been listening to the DG Chicago Symphony Orchestra album set of Giulini in America (II), a well recorded set with a lot of symphonic variety. I've always thought symphony orchestras were the most challenging from a recording and reproduction standpoint. 
  
 What I'm hearing are massed strings with plenty of bite and excitement, but never grating (there was a time when I didn't believe that could be achieved with any form of digital medium). The woodwinds dance around like fairy princesses. The brass instruments have plenty of bloom and body. And the sounds coming from the timpani and percussion section have real character. They don't sound like they are produced by some one-note wonder. The control of the bass region of the frequency spectrum is impressive.
  
 And when the full orchestra is playing, everything holds together. The instruments maintain their individuality rather than collapsing in some homogenized mush. The sound stage remains steady and firmly in place. At no point in listening to this set have I felt my system is under any kind of strain.
  
 The sensation of actually being in the hall is felt throughout most of the set I've heard so far. Very realistic and quite enjoyable.
 So I hope everyone will take a deep breath and move forward from here together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need someone left here to whom I can report my experience with the T1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
Giulini in AmeriThe


----------



## DecentLevi

@UntilThen - I for one, believe what @JazzVinyl reported on. To me it seems like a fluke case where a pair of old tubes went sour - that his intentions were good but a piece of antique technology happened to become defective. It seemed to me that his post about dissent / 'shame on you' etc. was not entirely serious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think he ruined the reputation of the EL's, and even if so, then all the more for the lucky ones.
  
 I think there are many interesting things in store for this thread, such as the progression of dual / quad 6BL7, my possibly being able to compare a 'pimped out' Elise to a Zana Deux in a few months, the EL6... oh not to mention the upcoming EL9N and EL14 (just kidding on those two). And now to soften things up a bit:


----------



## B-60

decentlevi said:


> @UntilThen - I for one, believe what @JazzVinyl reported on. To me it seems like a fluke case where a pair of old tubes went sour - that his intentions were good but a piece of antique technology happened to become defective. It seemed to me that his post about dissent / 'shame on you' etc. was not entirely serious
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 WOW!!!I go away for a week and here we are, I did not even get the amp yet and EL3N are on order (replacement),I am seven on the list for building the amp ,adapters on order...this is so sad, I would not be able to bitch to UT  when I get all of this and will sound like ??????
 Lets stick around for a bit longer and see what master will say (Master=me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Lets take a chill pill.


----------



## DecentLevi

B-60 I'm like you - I've got my Elise on order, and on the way I have 2 'Fido' (FDD20) adapters, 4 EL adapters, and I already have: 2 Fido, 4 EL's and 2 GE 6AS7GA. Probably I will only have minimal time on this thread by the time I get the Elise though


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Seriously speaking, there is a tube that is identical to the EL3N but with a different base - the EL11.
  

  "In the German "steel" or all-metal tube series output- and rectifier-tubes were usually made as glass tubes as before. Hence, with exception of its Y8A "steel-tube" base, _the EL11 is fully identical with the EL3N of the Philips red series from 1936_. Telefunken sold this tube also as beam-power-tetrode, otherwise it was made as a true pentode only."
  




  
 Don't know if there are any adapters available and how it sounds, but it is intriguing... ST shape, that famous make....Here is a link:
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el11.html


----------



## mordy

Hi puffmtd and h1,
  
 In reference to post #1700 regarding the use of the 5998 as driver tubes, I received an email from Lukasz where he says that the current draw for the Elise is a total for all tubes, and the safe range is up to 6-6.5A. Using a higher current draw risks overheating of the amp.
  
 The 5998 draws 2.5A, and the EL3N 0.9A for a total of 6.8A. This is above the limit set by Lukasz.
  
 I assume that each person has to decide if a difference of 0.3A is going to make it or break it - maybe a fan would mitigate the heat build up going over the current draw limit. You reported a cool running amp after two hours with the 5998/EL3N combination.
  
 Using 4 x 6BL7 = 6A, making for a total of 7.8A using 2 x EL3N. This seems to call for external heater power. It is not difficult to arrange. The question I have is if doubling the 6BL7 tubes will result in a big improvement in sound. For that matter, I could see asking Mrs Xuling to make an adapter strip with two octal pin bases on the bottom, and 6 octal sockets on top for 6 6BL7 tubes. The power leads could be built into the adapter, and the current draw would be 10.8A. This could be handled by a 12V 15A power supply and a 15A voltage regulator. However, I am not sure if this is enough since the tubes at start up draw much more current, and a 4A margin may not be enough. Anybody?
  
 This entire strip adapter would fit across the Elise width-wise, maybe protruding a little bit on each side. Glenn makes an amp with six 6BL7 tubes and claims that this sound is better than any 6AS7 tube.
  
 So far I am thoroughly enjoying my plug and play set up of 2 EL3N tubes as drivers and 2 6BL7 as powers. I have tried the following cross plate pairs: RCA side getter, Sylvania triple mica, GE double mica, and RCA double mica, and they all sound excellent, albeit with minor differences - hard to put my finger on the exact differences.
  
 Looks like we have a winner here with just two 6BL7 tubes.....


----------



## puffmtd

mordy said:


> Hi puffmtd and h1,
> 
> In reference to post #1700 regarding the use of the 5998 as driver tubes, I received an email from Lukasz where he says that the current draw for the Elise is a total for all tubes, and the safe range is up to 6-6.5A. Using a higher current draw risks overheating of the amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Mordy!  Right now I'm running 6BL7 as power and EL3N as drivers I'm anxious to try the 5998 as a driver with the EL3N as power to see if it sounded as great as I remember.
 The present combination is going to be hard to beat!


----------



## Suuup

Been running for 15 minutes. 
  
 Elise is 30C degrees dead in the center between all 4 tubes. 28C degrees on top of the transformer. Room temperature is 22.5C.


----------



## Suuup

This one has potential. 5998 + Visseaux 6N7G. Need some time to assess this. EL3N as powers and 5998 as drivers didn't impress me too much. 
  
 Edit: This combo has stabilized at around 30C degrees on top of the transformer and 32.5C on the deck, between all 4 tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

Mordy that sounds like a technically sound plan, but I was under the impression the milti-6BL7 setup was going to be 4x with 2 of another driver/power tube... I mean, for the sake of not overdoing it and adding 'too much' tube flavor from this medium size amp.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi puffmtd and h1,
> 
> In reference to post #1700 regarding the use of the 5998 as driver tubes, I received an email from Lukasz where he says that the current draw for the Elise is a total for all tubes, and the safe range is up to 6-6.5A. Using a higher current draw risks overheating of the amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Mordy. This is great information. Seems your experience with the EL3Ns and 6BL7 tubes is similar to mine. I want to try a quad set of 6BL7s as drivers but I'm not willing to exceed Lukasz' recommendation. I assume that if I use these for the El3Ns: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191741357847
 under the EL3N adapters with a 12 volt power supply, I should be safe because the quad 6BL7 will be drawing 6 amps but the EL3Ns won't be drawing anything from the Elise transformer, which is below Lukasz' recommendation.
  
 The 6- 6BL7 power configuration sounds fascinating. If Mrs. Xuling does put that together, I hope you can tell us where to find a 12V 15 amp power supply and regulator. By the way, why is the regulator required?


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> Mordy. This is great information. Seems your experience with the EL3Ns and 6BL7 tubes is similar to mine. I want to try a quad set of 6BL7s as drivers but I'm not willing to exceed Lukasz' recommendation. I assume that if I use these for the El3Ns: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191741357847
> under the EL3N adapters with a 12 volt power supply, I should be safe because the quad 6BL7 will be drawing 6 amps but the EL3Ns won't be drawing anything from the Elise transformer, which is below Lukasz' recommendation.
> 
> The 6- 6BL7 power configuration sounds fascinating. If Mrs. Xuling does put that together, I hope you can tell us where to find a 12V 15 amp power supply and regulator. By the way, why is the regulator required?



Won't work. 6BL7 uses a 6.3V signal, so you will need a 6.3V power supply and not 12V. FDD20 uses a 12.6V signal, which is why you're probably confusing them. Mordy wants to use a regulator to change the signal from around 12V to around 6V. I will have to warn people though, the cheap regulators we all got off of Ebay a few months ago does not handle enough current to support 4x or 6x 6BL7. 

Also, I wouldn't run the multiple 6BL7 as drivers, I would run them as powers.


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> Won't work. 6BL7 uses a 6.3V signal, so you will need a 6.3V power supply and not 12V. FDD20 uses a 12.6V signal, which is why you're probably confusing them. Mordy wants to use a regulator to change the signal from around 12V to around 6V. I will have to warn people though, the cheap regulators we all got off of Ebay a few months ago does not handle enough current to support 4x or 6x 6BL7.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't run the multiple 6BL7 as drivers, I would run them as powers.


 
 Thanks Suuup. Actually I didn't write this correctly. I meant I wanted to use the quad 6BL7s for power. NOT as drivers as I wrote.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup, pctazhp, puffmtd et al,
  
  
 In the past (read Little Dot MKIII days), I used a PC power supply rated 15A and 12V. This I connected to a 15A voltage regulator, and with this set-up I was able to use 2 x 2.5A tubes (6080/6AS7) as power tubes.
  
 The PC power supply has taps for 5V and 12V, and using the 12V plugs it was easy to adjust the voltage with the regulator to 6.3V for the power tubes.
  
 As puffmtd suggests, it seems like a very workable idea to connect this power supply to the EL3N and thus supply these two tubes with 1.8A. Then a dual 2 x 6BL7 set-up would only draw 6A from the Elise, and everything should be within specifications.
  
 In the past I used this power supply for the Elise driving two 6BL7 tubes as drivers without any problems (3A).
  
 The question still remains - will 4 6BL7 sound better than 2 6BL7 being used as power tubes in the Elise?
  
 And going all out into Glenn territory, would 6 BL7 tubes further improve on the sound?
  
 In the review of the Glenn six BL amp, all the attributes of the sound from this configuration I can hear with just 2 6BL7 tubes in the Elise, but I have not been able to compare with 4 or 6 tubes - yet.....
  
 PS: The cheap regulators (around $5-6) that Suuup mentions are good for 5A, but for a little more money ($13) you can find 15A regulators. I have something similar to the one below, but it lacks a voltage readout, so you need a multimeter to set the little screw to the desired voltage.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301123504994?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Suuup

@mordy Where did you buy this 15A voltage regulator? Do you know what the lower bound is? How low can it deliver? The cheap Ebay regulator I bought can only go +-2.5V of the input voltage (for my 12V input anyway), which is quite annoying. 
  
 I have a pair of CV2535 which requires 2.5V and 2A a piece. Would love to try them out soon, I've had them for quite a while. I can get a ton of PC power supplies no problem.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 Clicking on the link it says with an input of 12V you can get 1.2V and up.
  
 Type in DC/DC 15A Converter Buck Adjustable on eBay and see what comes up - should be many choices.
  
 If you are not sure, email the vendor and ask.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy, @puffmtd and @Suuup: Thanks for clearing up what is needed to run the EL3Ns as drivers with quad 6BL7s as power tubes.
  
 Really, I'm very happy with just 2 6BL7s, but I have another 2 of them. So may try out the quads.


----------



## Suuup

To compare my temperature measurements, Elise is 42C degrees on top of the transformer and 53C degrees on the deck right now with 5998 as power and 6N7G as driver. 
  
 Anyone know why it runs much cooler with 5998 as driver and 6N7G as power?
  
@2359glenn Do you know?


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> B-60 I'm like you - I've got my Elise on order, and on the way I have 2 'Fido' (FDD20) adapters, 4 EL adapters, and I already have: 2 Fido, 4 EL's and 2 GE 6AS7GA. Probably I will only have minimal time on this thread by the time I get the Elise though


 
  
 Hey DL, "minimal time" is NOT an option I'm afraid...you've too much to do with those tubes, and we will all be waiting - impatiently, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  


mordy said:


> Hi puffmtd and h1,
> 
> In reference to post #1700 regarding the use of the 5998 as driver tubes, I received an email from Lukasz where he says that the current draw for the Elise is a total for all tubes, and the safe range is up to 6-6.5A. Using a higher current draw risks overheating of the amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi mordy. From my own experience of 2x EL3N drivers and GEC 6AS7G powers, this combo actually has the case and transformer running _*cooler*_ than with 6SN7 drivers, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Don't really understand this, given the higher heater current draw of the EL3Ns, but this is definitely the case! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. So I don't think folks have anything _*at all*_ to worry about with this combo...just keep a check on the case and trafo temps to make sure...


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Won't work. 6BL7 uses a 6.3V signal, so you will need a 6.3V power supply and not 12V. FDD20 uses a 12.6V signal, which is why you're probably confusing them. Mordy wants to use a regulator to change the signal from around 12V to around 6V.




I don't think signal is the right word here. We are talking about heater voltages.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> I don't think signal is the right word here. We are talking about heater voltages.



Agreed. I thought about it when writing the post, but couldn't immediately think of another word, so I just went with it, as I thought people would still understand.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Agreed. I thought about it when writing the post, but couldn't immediately think of another word, so I just went with it, as I thought people would still understand.




Thanks for not getting your knickers in a twist.  (There are some people that can't take any feedback.)


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> sad, I would not be able to bitch to UT  when I get all of this and will sound like ??????


 
  
 Don't worry I'll hear your bitching.
  


pctazhp said:


> I need someone left here to whom I can report my experience with the T1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where's the T1 report?


----------



## UntilThen

*Six EL3N*
  
 Been running this for more than a day. Wanted to withhold this for a few days longer but thought I let you have a sneak preview.
  
 This works without a problem. No fireworks, hum or distortion. It's a total of 5.4A current draw. Lukasz did confirm to me (as he did to a few others) that the safe range for Elise is 6 to 6.5A.
  
 Initial impression is it looks Frankenstein but it has Lukasz 'WOW' moment when he saw the picture I sent him. He's obviously delighted that Elise is performing way beyond expectations and sends his best wishes from the Feliks Audio Team. I told him to show it to Henryk.
  
 First of all, as Glenn prompted, more power tubes does indeed have more drive and control. In fact the control is exceptional. Notes comes alive and hit you with impact. This is across the frequency spectrum. Stunning. @hypnos1 you'll be pleased to know this solve my HE560 distortion problem using 2 EL3N drivers and 2 EL3N powers. HE560 with six EL3N is performing flawlessly now with no distortion. The sound is phenomenal. Elise is cool after a 5 hours operations. Real cool. Every song sounded better than better.
  

  
  
  
 That's it for now. I won't be posting as much now but I'll be glancing now and then. So don't worry @B-60 and @pctazhp I hear you loud and clear and would love to read your impressions. You guys are doing great. Keep the Elise thread alive and
  
 Happy listening


----------



## supersonic395

That's goddayum awesome


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Congrats on the 6 tube Elise!
  
 I may consider trying the 4 x 6BL7 + EL3N combo...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Congrats on the 6 tube Elise!
> 
> I may consider trying the 4 x 6BL7 + EL3N combo...


 

 Do it Mordy. There's considerable difference. More drive.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Where's the T1 report?


 
 It just arrived about 2 hours ago and I haven't had much time to listen. Also, I have to go out soon, so I don't think I'll be able to report much until tomorrow.
  
 From a very preliminary vantage, I can say it is much cleaner than the HD700 with more detail and less coloration. And I think I can say that the 700s sound a little congested - relatively speaking. From everything I have read, the T1 is sounding a lot to me from what I have been able to decipher from the countless descriptions I've read about the HD800, but without any noticeable treble spike.
  
 It doesn't seem to have quite the bass impact as the HD700 - but apparently the classic HD800 doesn't either. I know I need to give my ears time to adjust to a sound that is quite different from what I'm used to with the 700s. The big question is whether this is going to my current end-game for phones. Having 2 or more cans sitting on my desk that allow me to chose which one to use for certain program source (or my current mood) just doesn't work for me. I don't have the patience to decide which phone I'll use at any particular time.
  
 I certainly can imagine that the T1 will become my standard headphone. But I can't say at this point that it blows the HD700s out of the water.
  
 From what I have read I have probably ruled out an LCD because I think the weight and fit would not feel comfortable to my big head and elephant ears. And the HD800 new or classic seems to remain pretty controversial, not to mention very expensive.
  
 One thing I was a little concerned about was the physical comfort of the T1s. So far, I think it is not quite as comfortable as the 700s, but I could easily live with the comfort level of the T1s.
  
 Having said all this, I was tempted to not say anything until I have more time with the T1s. This is far too early to report anything of value. However, just in the time it has taken me to write this, it does seem the T1s are growing on me ))))
  
 Will report more tomorrow.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Very cool and fun information about the EL3Ns. Now I have to decide whether I'm going to order 2 more EL3Ns and the adapters, or just order the 6BL7 adapters and stay with the EL3Ns in the driver sockets (with external power) OR both options )))) At least that's what I think my options are. I get a headache trying to keep all this straight ))))


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Using 4 x 6BL7 = 6A, making for a total of 7.8A using 2 x EL3N. This seems to call for external heater power. It is not difficult to arrange. The question I have is if doubling the 6BL7 tubes will result in a big improvement in sound. For that matter, I could see asking Mrs Xuling to make an adapter strip with two octal pin bases on the bottom, and 6 octal sockets on top for 6 6BL7 tubes. The power leads could be built into the adapter, and the current draw would be 10.8A. This could be handled by a 12V 15A power supply and a 15A voltage regulator. However, I am not sure if this is enough since the tubes at start up draw much more current, and a 4A margin may not be enough. Anybody?




I don't see why you couldn't have two banks of three parallelled 6BL7 heaters in series, i.e., 12.6 volts at 4.5 amps.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> *Six EL3N*




Radical!


----------



## jerick70

aqsw said:


> I agree, and I am the new high bidder on the rosewood lcds.


 

 Awesome!  I hope you get the LCD-2s.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> *Six EL3N*
> 
> Been running this for more than a day. Wanted to withhold this for a few days longer but thought I let you have a sneak preview.
> 
> This works without a problem. No fireworks, hum or distortion. It's a total of 5.4A current draw. Lukasz did confirm to me (as he did to a few others) that the safe range for Elise is 6 to 6.5A.


 
 If you are ready for more experiments, you can probably give a try with 2x2 EL84 on output stage.


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> If you are ready for more experiments, you can probably give a try with 2x2 EL84 on output stage.


 

 Does look interesting. 6.3V 760mA Transconductance 11.3 mA/V. 9 pin Noval base specially developed for power output tubes in audio amplification.
  
 Going to let someone run with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm in music listening mode and Six EL3N is sounding real good as it burns along. Going through my entire music collection with happiness. You do this when it sounds good and every song seems entirely new again. Most of all this is a very smooth, relaxing listen. It's been a while since I am contend to leave a set of tubes in Elise playing without changing.
  
 Going to show another picture of it... of the tubes in the adapters. Elise does not get hot after a whole day of listening to music. The tube amp remains cool. This is a real bonus.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Having said all this, I was tempted to not say anything until I have more time with the T1s. This is far too early to report anything of value. However, just in the time it has taken me to write this, it does seem the T1s are growing on me ))))
> 
> Will report more tomorrow.


 
 It's true you cannot form an opinion based on a few hours of listening. This is where you have to put aside bias and forget all you've ever read about HD700 and T1. Let your ears decide which headphone you like better. Forget about others opinion. This is all about you. At the end of the day, you're the one who is going to live with the headphone.
  
 I did a bit of reading on the HD700 and immediately can see why you think T1 on initial listen didn't really stand out. I think soundstage, T1 is still probably better but you can tell me that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So have fun listening for as long as you need to decide which headphone is for you. Go through all your favourite songs. Forget about just listening to audiophile pressings. Listen to songs you would listen to on a daily basis. That is what you're going to live with on a day to day basis.
  
 ...and then come back and tell us which is the chosen one.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *Six EL3N*
> 
> Been running this for more than a day. Wanted to withhold this for a few days longer but thought I let you have a sneak preview.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good work UT, and WELL DONE! This is really good news for those with low-z cans especially, and who may want to give this set-up a try.
  
 And yeah, she must be running cool as a cucumber, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So now all we need is further burn-in and a comparison with 5998s & Chathams, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(just hope your poor 'ol ears can stand up to the punishment!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. Very cool and fun information about the EL3Ns. Now I have to decide whether I'm going to order 2 more EL3Ns and the adapters, or just order the 6BL7 adapters and stay with the EL3Ns in the driver sockets (with external power) OR both options )))) At least that's what I think my options are. I get a headache trying to keep all this straight ))))


 
 Welcome to the Mad Mad World of tube rolling, pct!!


----------



## mordy

At this time I have about 110 hours on the EL3N tubes. With the 6BL7 as power tubes, the sound is still improving. The following words come to mind describing the sound:
  
 Natural
 Realistic
 Fantastic bass and treble extension
 Effortless
 Lively
 Up front
 Immersive
 Holistic sound stage
 Wonderful timbre
 Clarity
 Did I say clarity? YES
 Non fatiguing
  
 And now for the worst/best part:
  
 TOTALLY ADDICTIVE


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy  My experience with the EL3Ns/6BL7s is very similar to yours. I'm not sure how I feel about trying to populate Elise's top with far more bulbs than it was intended )))


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I've been busy with work at home all day, but I've had my T1s on most of the day. No listener fatigue and no desire to go back to the 700s. I know the T1s are far less colored. But still need time to see if I can break my addiction to the 700 coloration. It's a very interesting experience.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK @UntilThen I can't take the suspense anymore - PLEASE give any impressions on six versus four EL3N. I'm begging you, because then I won't lose much sleep anymore


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi and for everyone else too. Six EL3N is better than Four EL3N, that is for sure.
  
 What I'm trying to do is to evaluate and compare using my benchmark EL3N / 5998. I've been listening primarily to
  
 Six EL3N  (I'll forget about Four EL3N as that cause cone breakup / distortion on my HE560)
 EL3N / GE 6BL7 GTA
 EL3N / Tung Sol 5998
  
 I'm trying not to form a preference now as it is not conclusive, especially when 6BL7 continues to evolve and surprise me. At this stage I do like the Six EL3N and not by a small margin. What surprise me is that on my 3rd listen of EL3N / 6BL7, it's blossomed and changed so much since my first listen 2 days ago. What has initially seem to me as a lean sound, has now stunned with a full blown bass. Similarly I'm starting to hear intricate details in the music. I put on EL3N / 5998 and was saddened that right before my eyes and ears it's starting to come upended by these 2 challengers. However before I go any further, I should stop as my testing isn't complete. I need to get the hours in on the 6BL7 and 4 of my newer EL3N. Also I need to put a selection of songs through these 3 combinations and often times I need to repeatedly swap them around just to confirm what I'm hearing.
  
 I'm afraid this is it for now as I continue this lovely exercise. There are no bad combinations here if you must know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 You probably ask why didn't I use other tubes as drivers. Like FDD20, Mazda 6N7G, Mullard ECC31, C3G etc. I have but I've always preferred having EL3N in the drivers seat since the 5th of Jan when the single EL3N adapters came. I have done quite a fair bit of swapping. Understand though that others have their own preferences.
  
 Oh forgot to show you a lovely photo of EL3N / 6BL7


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:
			
		

> Using 4 x 6BL7 = 6A, making for a total of 7.8A using 2 x EL3N. This seems to call for external heater power. It is not difficult to arrange. The question I have is if doubling the 6BL7 tubes will result in a big improvement in sound. For that matter, I could see asking Mrs Xuling to make an adapter strip with two octal pin bases on the bottom, and 6 octal sockets on top for 6 6BL7 tubes. The power leads could be built into the adapter, and the current draw would be 10.8A. This could be handled by a 12V 15A power supply and a 15A voltage regulator. However, I am not sure if this is enough since the tubes at start up draw much more current, and a 4A margin may not be enough. Anybody?
> 
> This entire strip adapter would fit across the Elise width-wise, maybe protruding a little bit on each side. Glenn makes an amp with six 6BL7 tubes and claims that this sound is better than any 6AS7 tube.
> 
> Looks like we have a winner here with just two 6BL7 tubes.....


 
 If you get 2 adapters with three 6BL7s with the filament leads brought out then hook them in series 6.3 + 6.3 = 12.6 @ 4.5amps no voltage regulator needed
 And a smaller 12 volt power supply. Also will have a lower start up inrush then six 6BL7s in parallel.


----------



## UntilThen

Quote:


			
				mordy said:
			
		

> Using 4 x 6BL7 = 6A, making for a total of 7.8A using 2 x EL3N. This seems to call for external heater power. It is not difficult to arrange. The question I have is if doubling the 6BL7 tubes will result in a big improvement in sound. For that matter, I could see asking Mrs Xuling to make an adapter strip with two octal pin bases on the bottom, and 6 octal sockets on top for 6 6BL7 tubes. The power leads could be built into the adapter, and the current draw would be 10.8A. This could be handled by a 12V 15A power supply and a 15A voltage regulator. However, I am not sure if this is enough since the tubes at start up draw much more current, and a 4A margin may not be enough. Anybody?
> 
> This entire strip adapter would fit across the Elise width-wise, maybe protruding a little bit on each side. Glenn makes an amp with six 6BL7 tubes and claims that this sound is better than any 6AS7 tube.
> 
> Looks like we have a winner here with just two 6BL7 tubes.....



 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> If you get 2 adapters with three 6BL7s with the filament leads brought out then hook them in series 6.3 + 6.3 = 12.6 @ 4.5amps no voltage regulator needed
> And a smaller 12 volt power supply. Also will have a lower start up inrush then six 6BL7s in parallel.


 
 This should be very interesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'll be watching with interest how this unfolds.. both using 4 6BL7 and 6 6BL7 as power tubes.
  
 I have a glimpse as I'm witnessing now with 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 EL3N as power tubes. It's nothing short of breathtaking. The realism is uncanny. Musical notes come alive. It will enslave you and turn you into a musical jukebox. Well kind of... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I spend a full day yesterday with Six EL3N and came away totally gobsmacked. Today I'm spending time with 2 EL3N as drivers and 2 6BL7 as power tubes. They sound good ... very good at this stage I would say. I have only less than 8 hours on it. I think 4 6BL7 as power tubes would be an interesting contest against 4 EL3N. If you're using 6 6BL7 as power tubes, be prepared for a blast off to space and not returning. So be very careful... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You're quite safe to go with Six EL3N and 2xEL3N / 2x6BL7 now...this will be a thrilling sonic ride that you will be laughing uncontrollably. Don't worry about using 2xEL3N / 2xEL3N.... go straight for Starship Enterprise (that's what I call Six EL3N). 
  
 In fact with Six EL3N, I don't think I need anything else.... but that's what I said a month ago.
  
 Another pic of Starship in full flight veering slightly to the left as it negotiate a tight left turn.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyone know the current draw for 6N23P and 6BQ7A? I think they are 0.3 and 0.4 respectively. Thought of using them as drivers with 4 6BL7 powers without external power supply.
  
 I like the sound of these 2 as drivers.
  
 Here's the 6N23P in action on Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

This is getting crazy. This sounds incredible. So if the heater current for 6N23P is 0.3, then I can use 4 6BL7 as powers and I'll be able to get an impression on 6BL7 vs EL3N as power tubes. 
  
 Right now I can tell you this combo is making Dire Straits come alive and electrifying. I have no more descriptions. It's good !!!
  
 Elise is colder than ice now.


----------



## nojdrof

While waiting for my Elise to arrive I decided to upgrade my DAC, currently a music streamer2.
I've looked at a couple under $1000 and found nothing that sounds as good except a music streamer2+. Then I started reading how usb based DACs are inferior to other forms but have no idea where to go from here. Can you guys point me to a thread for more information or am I wasting my time? What do you guys use? I realize this isn't a DAC thread but I trust the advise you all have given me regarding the Elise amp.

Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> While waiting for my Elise to arrive I decided to upgrade my DAC, currently a music streamer2.
> I've looked at a couple under $1000 and found nothing that sounds as good except a music streamer2+. Then I started reading how usb based DACs are inferior to other forms but have no idea where to go from here. Can you guys point me to a thread for more information or am I wasting my time? What do you guys use? I realize this isn't a DAC thread but I trust the advise you all have given me regarding the Elise amp.
> 
> Thanks


 
 There will be varying opinions here that's for sure but without spending an arm or a leg, just get yourself a Schitt Bifrost Multibit or NAD d1050 or Geek that LR has. I have heard the last 2 and they are good enough for me. Which is very good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think TJ and PCT will tell you more about the multibit. AQ will sell you the Hegel. So the list goes on. Ah Vince has the Auralic. All good stuff. Toss a coin, you can't go wrong.
  
 ps.. Jerick has a Yulong.


----------



## vince741

My (Taurus) auralic is an amp, the audio gd ref5 is the DAC .

If you are looking for a r2r under 1k, I've heard a lot of nice thing about the audio gd dac19 10th anniversary.
Otherwise the gustard x20 seems to be good as well.

E/ if you need an interface, the breeze du-u8 with talema is quite good, especially for the price.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> My (Taurus) auralic is an amp, the audio gd ref5 is the DAC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok I got confused there with what you've got. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So another option ... audio gd dac19. @nojdrof your option list just got longer.


----------



## UntilThen

Here we go. 6N23P with 6BL7. This is the combo I want to run with 4 6BL7 as power tubes without external power supply. If 6N23P is 0.3A then total current draw is 6.6A.
  
 This sounds good too but 6N23P with 4 EL3N has better definition and greater impact. 4 6BL7 will make a difference I am quite sure.
  
 Lots of room to wiggle here.
  

  
 ps.. this sounds very good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm quite won over by the 6BL7. Bass is solid and a very nice tone.


----------



## pctazhp

I know this is not a headphone thread and there are some pretty strongly held opinions here - pro and con. So I will try to make my comparison of the T1 and HD700s running on the EL3N/6BL7 combo fairly short and then get back to thinking about bulbs. This recording made it easy to hear the good and bad of each can:
  

  
 With the T1 the highs are extended and crystal clear. The instruments are more precisely located in the sound stage and the mid-range clearer. BUT (and its a big BUT for me) the bass energy of is significantly lacking with the T1s. I have a strong emotional connection to the song with the 700s, which is lacking with the T1. The T1s certainly reveal the problem areas of the 700s, but I'm guessing I will be sending the T1s back in a few weeks.
  
 I'm sure no one will be tempted by this post to try a pair of HD700s. Unfortunately, the reviewers and the marketplace have not been kind to these cans. But they have brought me a lot of musical enjoyment and probably will for the foreseeable future.
  
 By the way, Tania treats us to one of the sexiest giggles ever recorded at 1:56 of this video.
  
 And if you have 20 minutes to watch it, this is a fun video of what went in to the recording of this song, and a wonderful glimpse of the interplay between two highly talented singers:


----------



## TomNC

nojdrof said:


> While waiting for my Elise to arrive I decided to upgrade my DAC, currently a music streamer2.
> I've looked at a couple under $1000 and found nothing that sounds as good except a music streamer2+. Then I started reading how usb based DACs are inferior to other forms but have no idea where to go from here. Can you guys point me to a thread for more information or am I wasting my time? What do you guys use? I realize this isn't a DAC thread but I trust the advise you all have given me regarding the Elise amp.
> 
> Thanks




For under $1000, Shiit Gungnir Multibit used is an excellent option. Though I prefer VEGA to the gumby, there are plenty of happy users with the latter.


----------



## pctazhp

nojdrof said:


> While waiting for my Elise to arrive I decided to upgrade my DAC, currently a music streamer2.
> I've looked at a couple under $1000 and found nothing that sounds as good except a music streamer2+. Then I started reading how usb based DACs are inferior to other forms but have no idea where to go from here. Can you guys point me to a thread for more information or am I wasting my time? What do you guys use? I realize this isn't a DAC thread but I trust the advise you all have given me regarding the Elise amp.
> 
> Thanks


 
 nojdrof:  I'm running a Bifrost Multibit with my Elise and am very happy with the combination. The Bimby is $600 new with a 15 day trial period. The next Schiit step up in multibit DACs is the Gugnir at $1249. That is over your budget and I haven't heard it so I can't comment. The Schiit DACs are designed by Mike Moffett, who in the earlier days of digital designed the Theta 5 DAC. It was considered one of the great DACs of that time. I had one and loved it. So I felt pretty safe going with the Bimby. 
  
 I don't know if it is your best choice, but I'm pretty sure you would not be disappointed with it, and you can try it for 15 days with a return privilege. Good luck.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I know this is not a headphone thread and there are some pretty strongly held opinions here - pro and con. So I will try to make my comparison of the T1 and HD700s running on the EL3N/6BL7 combo fairly short and then get back to thinking about bulbs. This recording made it easy to hear the good and bad of each can:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 Hi pct....shame the T1s don't seem to be doing it for you..._*yet*_... but boy, you must certainly love your bass, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I can feel mine in every bone of my body!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Actually, I'm beginning to believe that the pure silver + single-crystal copper wires I use in adapting my EL3Ns really *do* make quite a difference after all, lol!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...not to mention the GEC/Osram powers!!...and the pure silver interconnects...who knows??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I can only hope that perhaps the bass will develop in your T1s with further burn-in, but hey, there's plenty more fish in the sea, lol!...CHEERS!!


----------



## nojdrof

untilthen said:


> There will be varying opinions here that's for sure but without spending an arm or a leg, just get yourself a Schitt Bifrost Multibit or NAD d1050 or Geek that LR has. I have heard the last 2 and they are good enough for me. Which is very good. :wink_face:
> 
> I think TJ and PCT will tell you more about the multibit. AQ will sell you the Hegel. So the list goes on. Ah Vince has the Auralic. All good stuff. Toss a coin, you can't go wrong.
> 
> ps.. Jerick has a Yulong.




Thanks guys I'm looking into everything you all use.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct....shame the T1s don't seem to be doing it for you..._*yet*_... but boy, you must certainly love your bass, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This journey we are on is so interesting. Your post led me to replace the power 6BL7s with my 5998s, leaving in the EL3Ns as drivers. All of the good things I described above for the T1s remained, BUT now with bass energy.
  
 One of my favorite albums from the late 60s is the Bobby Gentry-Glen Campbell duet album. Bobby's haunting line of "But this time only two of us moved on" in the Elusive Dreams track is palpable.
  
 For any Glen Campbell fans, the Glen Campbell Goodtime Hour debuted on CBS on January 22, 1969. It was announced in September, 2015 that Glen had been taken home to die from the final stages of Alzheimer's. Glen lived in Phoenix for several years and frequently sang with (and was a strong supporter of) the Phoenix Symphony. He had some very difficult years. It is sad.
  
 Probably few remember Bobby Gentry, but she obtained international fame with her enigmatic "Ode to Billie Joe"


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> This journey we are on is so interesting.* Your post led me to replace the power 6BL7s with my 5998s, leaving in the EL3Ns as drivers. All of the good things I described above for the T1s remained, BUT now with bass energy.*
> 
> One of my favorite albums from the late 60s is the Bobby Gentry-Glen Campbell duet album. Bobby's haunting line of "But this time only two of us moved on" in the Elusive Dreams track is palpable.
> 
> ...




  
 Yes indeed, pct....I suppose this is what you could call a case of 'synergy' at work, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...which does make this whole hobby of ours _very_ interesting indeed....not to mention very _confusing_ sometimes. Especially when what works for one doesn't for another!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And so the moral has to be : try as many different combinations as possible before final(?!) decision!


----------



## hypnos1

Just a quick note regarding the EL3N treble, folks.
  
 Now that my ears are pretty well back into gear after a recent bad cold, I realise my previous intimation that its treble might just be a tad short of 'sparkle' or 'shimmer' was down purely to said infection....I'm _*very*_ glad - nay _*relieved!*_ - to say it's back _*in spades, lol*_...and now have no doubts whatsoever about the EL3N's performance in this area (or any others IMHO...).
  
 HAPPY LISTENING all!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> With the T1 the highs are extended and crystal clear. The instruments are more precisely located in the sound stage and the mid-range clearer. BUT (and its a big BUT for me) the bass energy of is significantly lacking with the T1s. I have a strong emotional connection to the song with the 700s, which is lacking with the T1. The T1s certainly reveal the problem areas of the 700s, but I'm guessing I will be sending the T1s back in a few weeks.


 
 Choice of headphone is personal. Our ears will tell us what we like. However sometimes our brains tells our ears what to like based on some memories encountered along life's journey.
  
 In my case, my preference certainly have changed since the days of HD650 and Darkvoice 336se. Back then I love the warm and lush tones and bass slam. These days I tend to prefer a more revealing sound. Having heard the T1 bass, I felt it's just right for me in relation to the mids and treble. It goes deep and feels very controlled. Details, clarity and expansive soundstage just seals it for me. I'm making this comparison between HD650 and T1.
  
 Definitely true about synergy with your other gear but then you've been exposed to enough Hi-Fi to know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for Glen Campbell. Brings back the memories. Even as recently as the latest 'I'm Not Gonna Miss You', I've love his songs.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Just a quick note regarding the EL3N treble, folks.
> 
> Now that my ears are pretty well back into gear after a recent bad cold, I realise my previous intimation that its treble might just be a tad short of 'sparkle' or 'shimmer' was down purely to said infection....I'm _*very*_ glad - nay _*relieved!*_ - to say it's back _*in spades, lol*_...and now have no doubts whatsoever about the EL3N's performance in this area (or any others IMHO...).
> 
> HAPPY LISTENING all!


 

 I hear you @hypnos1  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've six of them in Elise now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm collecting my thoughts on why I like EL3N sound as I sit listening and comparing tubes. It's the texture in the sound of EL3N. I think of texture as opaque, transparent, bright, dark, warm, neutral, cool, dynamic, mellow, clear, muddy. I equate texture to fabric too. I think of sound density. These are slowly forming in my head as to why I'm drawn to EL3N sound.


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> Thanks guys I'm looking into everything you all use.


 

 Good luck nojdrof. The evaluation phase is part of the fun. Perhaps get Elise first before deciding on the DAC.


----------



## jerick70

nojdrof said:


> While waiting for my Elise to arrive I decided to upgrade my DAC, currently a music streamer2.
> I've looked at a couple under $1000 and found nothing that sounds as good except a music streamer2+. Then I started reading how usb based DACs are inferior to other forms but have no idea where to go from here. Can you guys point me to a thread for more information or am I wasting my time? What do you guys use? I realize this isn't a DAC thread but I trust the advise you all have given me regarding the Elise amp.
> 
> Thanks


 

 You may want to look at the Yulong DACs.  I have the DA8 and DA8 II and am really impressed with their performance with the Elise.  Of course you would need to buy used.
  
 Also, I've heard the Hegel HD12 is stunning with the Elise.
  
 On that note, everyones tastes are different so I would recommend you listen before you buy or purchase with a no questions asked return policy.


----------



## jerick70

@nojdrof did you see the Violectric V800 on Massdrop right now?  I've heard this is a killer DAC.  And the price is $699.99.  Not to bad for a DAC that sells for $1000 usually.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> At this time I have about 110 hours on the EL3N tubes. With the 6BL7 as power tubes, the sound is still improving. The following words come to mind describing the sound:
> 
> Natural
> Realistic
> ...




Is that as pre-amp / headphone amp / both?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Choice of headphone is personal. Our ears will tell us what we like. However sometimes our brains tells our ears what to like based on some memories encountered along life's journey.
> 
> In my case, my preference certainly have changed since the days of HD650 and Darkvoice 336se. Back then I love the warm and lush tones and bass slam. These days I tend to prefer a more revealing sound. Having heard the T1 bass, I felt it's just right for me in relation to the mids and treble. It goes deep and feels very controlled. Details, clarity and expansive soundstage just seals it for me. I'm making this comparison between HD650 and T1.
> 
> ...


 
 Unfortunately, my only experience with the current crop of high end phones is the HD700, and I know a lot of people wouldn't even consider them high end. Switching to the 5998s with the T1 has made a big difference for me. And I think probably some of my other power tubes would be even better. The 5998s just happened to be handy when I read H1's post and decided to try something other than the 6BL7s. And I'm following closely your experiment with the 6 EL3Ns. I like the fact that this combo can be run without external power.
  
 For reasons that may make sense to only me I think my upgrade path for headphones is either Senn or Beyer. Right now I have in my possession the TOTL for Beyer. And I think the only Senn upgrade that would make sense for me would be the HD800S. I don't have access to either a HD800 or S. But from what I have read the S solves some of the problems of the HD800, but it not a game changer. I have read a number of posts from people who own or used to own both the HD800 and T1, and many seem to have preferred the T1. So if in the end I'm not ready to keep the T1s, I doubt that I would try the HD800S at least for quite a while (both because of lack of availability and the high price). 
  
 So I'm guessing that if I don't keep the T1s I'll probably be sticking with the HD700s for a while. There is no doubt that the 700s are much more aggressive and more colored than the T1s. That aggressiveness and coloration for many seems to be grating, but for me to this point it has been addictive. But what I'm finding today is that with the 5998s I'm just not wanting to go back to the 700s. But time will tell.
  
 Nice to know there is still at least one other person around who appreciates Glen Campbell )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Unfortunately, my only experience with the current crop of high end phones is the HD700, and I know a lot of people wouldn't even consider them high end. Switching to the 5998s with the T1 has made a big difference for me. And I think probably some of my other power tubes would be even better. The 5998s just happened to be handy when I read H1's post and decided to try something other than the 6BL7s. And I'm following closely your experiment with the 6 EL3Ns. I like the fact that this combo can be run without external power.


 
 If you like the HD700 sonic signature then stay with it. Shouldn't really matter what others think what is high end and what is not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There was indeed a very favourable review on HD700 in 2012 when it was still in prototype. Similarly I love my HE560. It may not be the flavour of the month now but that matters not an iota to me. However what gets me now is the original T1. Again pretty much past it flavour of the month news by now but I really love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6 EL3N is really good. I'm dropping hints slowly now before the actual review. It's the texture that gets me. Running 6 EL3N and not needing external power supplies and under heating is a big bonus. One that makes me very happy. I'm trying to stay away from external power supply. 
  
 Decide to put in 2xFDD20 with 4xEL3N and the end result is to be expected. Again the wow moment. This is more aggressive but surprisingly I need to dial up more volume for the same sound pressure as 6xEL3N. I still prefer the sound from 6xEL3N.
  
 So do yourself a favour and order 2 of those dual EL3N adapters now and say goodbye to $85. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 ps.. if you had told me this is how my Elise will turn out at the time I place my order, I wouldn't have believe you. However this is so far remove from stock tubes sound, it's unbelievable.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Almost all my listening is with the Elise as a preamp - I rarely listen through my headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

GE 6BL7GTA sounds very good with Fivre 6N7G brown base. This power tube continues to impress me. I'm starting to think I don't need 5998 anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What I don't understand is why with 2xEL3N as drivers I get a louder volume. With the Fivre, my volume knob is approaching 12noon. I need only 10.5 on EL3N... using same power tubes.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> Almost all my listening is with the Elise as a preamp - I rarely listen through my headphones.


 
  
 Thanks, Mordy, just making sure.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 The 5998 has a mu of 5.5, and the 6AS7 a mu of 2, so it is logical that the sound from the amp is louder using the 5998. However, using tubes such as the FDD20 and ECC31 with a mu of 33 does not necessarily result in louder volume - on the contrary - it gets lower.
  
 Using EL3N as drivers and the 6BL7 as powers I get good volume at 10-11 o'clock with headphones. Putting in the 20/31 combo I need 3 o'clock for the same volume. I do not understand this - maybe there is some kind of formula that explains this.
  
 I am glad that you like the 6BL7 as power tubes. When I wrote about my "discovery" some time back there was nobody chiming in, but now it seems that people are willing to give these tubes a try.
  
 How did I find out about these tubes? A few years ago we were trying to find inexpensive substitutes for the better sounding 6SN7 tubes, using them in the modified Little Dot MKIII. People would publish lists of all kinds of compatible tubes with different designations. There is a German seller JacMusic that lists a lot of tubes, and on their list I found the 6BL7 and 6BX7 listed as excellent but under rated tubes. They are essentially similar; the BL has a mu of 15 and the BX a mu of 19. Somehow, I get much better results with the 6BL7. 
  
 Wonder if Philips made a 6BL7 version.... So far I cannot find it.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy,
  
 It's interesting most of us find ideal combos but with EL3N in the drivers seat. 
  
 Herein is this strange phenomenon. With EL3N as powers, other tubes results in lower volume than if you use EL3N as drivers as well. I wasn't noting the volume discrepancies with 5998. With 5998, FDD20 and ECC31 will have corresponding louder volume. I was testing with FDD20 as driver and EL3N as power tubes when I noticed this decrease in volume as opposed to EL3N as drivers and EL3N as power tubes.
  
 EL3N and 6BL7 does sound good but I'd urge you to try Six EL3N. 
  
 Cheers
  
 It's good everyone finds their ideal combo. As with headphones, so will there be preferences with tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Do you know of a source for the EL3N at a reasonable price?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Do you know of a source for the EL3N at a reasonable price?


 

 Not anymore unfortunately. Peter has sold out completely. I have only 6 tubes and I'm using it all at one go.... 
  
 How long do these last?


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> There will be varying opinions here that's for sure but without spending an arm or a leg, just get yourself a Schitt Bifrost Multibit or NAD d1050 or Geek that LR has. I have heard the last 2 and they are good enough for me. Which is very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Didn't somebody on this thread say their Bifrost didn't pair well with the Elise, or am I mistaken?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Didn't somebody on this thread say their Bifrost didn't pair well with the Elise, or am I mistaken?


 

 I don't remember.


----------



## UntilThen

Hello @Oskari  ,
  
 Can I check with you on 6N23P, 6BQ7A and C3G heater current. I think they are 0.3, 0.4 and 0.37A but I'm not sure...
  
 Trying to use the 1st 2 with 4x6BL7 as powers without external power supply and 4xC3G as powers with 2xEL3N.
  
  
 Or 6xC3G ?!!!!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Hello @Oskari  ,
> 
> Can I check with you on 6N23P, 6BQ7A and C3G heater current. I think they are 0.3, 0.4 and 0.37A but I'm not sure...


 
  
 Yes. Well, 0.31 for 6N23P, if that matters.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Yes. Well, 0.31 for 6N23P, if that matters.


 

 Hooray !!! So 2x6N23P = 0.62 and 4x6BL7 = 6A ; Total 6.62...... cool.
  
 What about the other 2? 6BQ7A and C3G?
  
 See I have 5 of these...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> What about the other 2? 6BQ7A and C3G?


 
  
 Your numbers agree with the datasheets.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Your numbers agree with the datasheets.


 
 Alrighty...
  
 I shall order 2 dual 6BL7 adapters to try out
  
 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7     6.62A
  
 2x6BQ7A and 4x6BL7     6.8A   .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ...without using external power supply. Will do this first. C3G can wait or someone else try it.


----------



## UntilThen

Check this out...  that means I can also roll 4x6SN7 as power tubes in Elise..... 
  
*1pc Gold Dual 6SN7 6BL7 TO 6AS7 tube adapter*


----------



## Oskari

Brilliant! UT, what's your adapter count today?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Brilliant! UT, what's your adapter count today?


 

 I think I'm retiring from tube rolling.... you take over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Now I know why I shouldn't remove the stickers from the adapters. I have so many I'll mix them up ...


----------



## Oskari

I couldn't possibly match your rolling energy.


----------



## UntilThen

I make a mistake selling 2 of these... so only 2 left and I have to pair it with 2 Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top. You think I'll have channel imbalance? lolololo


----------



## DecentLevi

So many interesting developments. I'll just have to see how the Elise stacks up in person, after all the TOTL summit-fi amps I just tried today. 
 Just for kicks feel free to click here for the impressions thread for a meet I threw today. There will be upcoming reviews on other flagship amps like the ZD and a modded T1 I tried.
  
 FYI, just in case the EL3N's are depleted there are still EL11 out there, but just no adapters made yet


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> So many interesting developments. I'll just have to see how the Elise stacks up in person, after all the TOTL summit-fi amps I just tried today.
> Just for kicks feel free to click here for the impressions thread for a meet I threw today. There will be upcoming reviews on other flagship amps like the ZD and a modded T1 I tried.
> 
> FYI, just in case the EL3N's are depleted there are still EL11 out there, but just no adapters made yet


 
 Interesting and you didn't invite me !!! ....and no Elise represented with Six EL3N as a show stopper.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Looks good DL.. wish I could be there.


----------



## UntilThen

Hello @mordy ... how about you try the following first? 
  
 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 without external power supply. I believe you have the tubes. So it's just getting the pair of dual adapters. I'll let you showcase this first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I'll be your gunnery sergeant on this. Just keep the plane flying straight.


----------



## UntilThen

Folks the 2 pricing for the dual 6BL7-6SN7 to 6AS7 adapter is because one is brass and the other bakelite. I believe the more expensive one is brass.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Wonder if Philips made a 6BL7 version.... So far I cannot find it.


 
  
 Probably not. Blake [http://scottbecker.net/tube/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf] doesn't list one either. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen any Euro-made ones.


----------



## tjw321

Here's a new combo for you - 3xEL3N:
  

 Of course, it's really 4 but I didn't notice until I'd uploaded that I'd taken the picture from a weird angle and one is entirely hidden.
 I think this is my favourite combo so far, but I can understand the comments regarding a lack of treble. I'm a bit of a treble-head/detail freak. The EL3Ns are a little on the dark side of my favoured sound-signature and (for my tastes) the treble is a little recessed. However, the EL3Ns do a great job of retaining all the detail that normally goes AWOL with a "recessed treble" (again, relative to my personal taste). For me, the EL3N/Mullard 6080 combination was too dark and I needed to swap the 6080s out for my GE 6AS7GA (which previously I'd said were likely to be anaemic for most people, but okay for me).
  
 However, with the arrival of my second pair of EL3N adapters I could go "all EL3N". I'm no basshead, but I'm really enjoying the punchy bass that these give whilst still retaining all that treble detail. I suspect that if I had the T1s then the sound would be closer to my usual tastes but, to me, this is what tube rolling is all about. Experimenting with different sound signatures and every so often discovering something sublime which may not be in your normal comfort zone.
  
 Even so, I still want to get those T1s one day....


----------



## tjw321

BTW, I discovered today that there are such a thing as EL153 tubes. I wonder if they would work in our ELISEs?
  
 And yes, I used to find typing 5318008 into calculators, and turning them upside down amusing...


----------



## vince741

> Originally Posted by *pctazhp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I have read a number of posts from people who own or used to own both the HD800 and T1, and many seem to have preferred the T1.


 
  
 I'm one (of many) people who beg to differ . As a matter of fact, I'll probably sell the T1 soon.


----------



## whirlwind

vince741 said:


> > Originally Posted by *pctazhp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> > I have read a number of posts from people who own or used to own both the HD800 and T1, and many seem to have preferred the T1.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I do not think that the HD800 or the T1 is a better headphone....probably more of different ears and different gears type of think.
  
 I am probably going to cave and buy some 6BL7 adapters and give these I go in my amp....sooner rather than later.


----------



## Oskari

tjw321 said:


> BTW, I discovered today that there are such a thing as EL153 tubes. I wonder if they would work in our ELISEs?


 
  
 This is going to lead to the EL156…


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> This is going to lead to the EL156…


 

 And falling into KT88, KT120, KT150 ....


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> Here's a new combo for you - 3xEL5N:
> 
> However, with the arrival of my second pair of EL5N adapters I could go "all EL5N". I'm no basshead, but I'm really enjoying the punchy bass that these give whilst still retaining all that treble detail.


 
 TJ, it's EL3N not 5N. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So you heard 4 of them?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass has a nice tone and sounds different from 6BL7 bass.
  
 I'm really enamoured listening to 6xEL3N with T1. I call it the warm side of neutral with clarity and details. A very relaxing listen for me that is non fatiguing.
  
 Been playing Eric Clapton the whole night, particularly the song 'Badge' when he was still with Cream.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> This is going to lead to the EL156…


 
  


hpamdr said:


> And falling into KT88, KT120, KT150 ....


 

 We're getting into serious territory are we? I think we need a new tube amp...


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> *I do not think that the HD800 or the T1 is a better headphone....probably more of different ears and different gears type of think.*
> 
> I am probably going to cave and buy some 6BL7 adapters and give these I go in my amp....sooner rather than later.


 
 Wholeheartedly agree with the headphones.
  
 Yes get those dual 6BL7 adapters. I just paid for a pair. Mrs Ling Xu knows me well by now.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > *I do not think that the HD800 or the T1 is a better headphone....probably more of different ears and different gears type of think.*
> ...


 
 Not yet...but I am about to cave.....lol


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> TJ, it's EL3N not 5N.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 D'oh - it's Sunday, My brain-switch stays in the off position on a Sunday. I've gone back and edited the post just in case anyone sees that in isolation and gets misled. Thanks for the catch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Yes, I've heard 4 of them, and that's how my Elise is configured for the next few days since I'm really enjoying it, and I want to give them a fair chance rather than moving on to the next FOTM....though I do have some 6BL7s on the way (though I did order them on a Sunday, so who knows what I really ordered!). I'm listening with my HD600s which I'm fairly certain are warmer than the T1s - I should really try my AKG K702s but warm and relaxing is good since I usually listen to the Elise last thing at night.
  
 I saw Eric live when he was just out of rehab. It was my first ever "proper" concert which would make it mid-late 70's but that doesn't seem to tie up with the dates on Wikipedia. I remember that Eric wasn't really himself and needed a lot of help from his "back-up" guitarist (George Terry, IIRC) but despite that was spectacular when he did "let rip". Still one of the best shows I've been to.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Not yet...but I am about to cave.....lol


 

 Sure took you a long time to cave in to the 6BL7 since you use a Glenn amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess those GEC 6AS7G, GEC 6080, Bendix 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 kept you really contended. Well after you have the 6BL7, you can tell me how it compares against those expensive power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> Yes, I've heard 4 of them, and that's how my Elise is configured for the next few days since I'm really enjoying it, and I want to give them a fair chance rather than moving on to the next FOTM....though I do have some 6BL7s on the way (though I did order them on a Sunday, so who knows what I really ordered!). *I'm listening with my HD600s which I'm fairly certain are warmer than the T1s* - I should really try my AKG K702s but warm and relaxing is good since I usually listen to the Elise last thing at night.


 
 I had a chance to listen to the HD600 when LR brought it to my place. I wouldn't say it's brighter than the T1. HD600 sounds neutral to me. HD650 is warm. If I had to choose between HD600 and HD650 again now, I will pick HD600. It just sounded a whole lot linear across the FR than HD650. Good details at the top end and surprisingly a very nice strong bass using Elise with EL3N and 5998.
  
 Who wouldn't like warm and relaxing on a winter night....


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> I'm one (of many) people who beg to differ . As a matter of fact, I'll probably sell the T1 soon.


 
 Sure there are also many people who prefer the HD800. And I could probably get an almost new HD800 now for less than the T1 Ver 2 will cost me if I keep it. My problem is I don't have access to either the HD800 or HD800S, so I just have to guess as to how the T1 compares to either of the Senns. Yes I could order HD800 now from Amazon and compare it to the T1. Maybe I will do that, but want to spend a little more time with the T1 before I make my next move - if any.
  
 If I were king of the world, I would command every owner of an Elise to acquire the T1, HD800 and HD800S and report on the comparison of all three (together with reporting on what tube combination - of all possible combinations - works best with each headphone)


----------



## aqsw

Not sure how many Chris de Burgh fans out there, but his album Moonfleet and other stories, sounds fantastic with the 2031 drivers, thomson 6080 powers, and Ether Cs.


----------



## pctazhp

At this point, I don't know what is still burning in - tubes, T1s and/or my ears. Today I went back to the EL3Ns/6BL7 combo driving the T1s. Pure musical joy.
  
 I quickly went to one of my all time favorite recordings - John Steward signing California Bloodlines on the Phoenix Concerts Live album.
  
 When Stewart sings:
  
_Have you wondered where we were before we were born?
 Rollin' 'round the heavens like a song
 I know it's then I saw the big Sierras
 Saw a California sunrise comin' on

 Oh, there's California bloodlines in my heart
 And a California woman in my song
 Oh, there's California bloodlines in my heart
 And a California heartbeat in my soul_
  
 It's goosebumps from top to bottom )) And I was born in Arizona - not California !!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> At this point, I don't know what is still burning in - tubes, T1s and/or my ears. Today I went back to the EL3Ns/6BL7 combo driving the T1s. Pure musical joy.


 
 You're getting use to the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was listening to this song and then I heard a dog bark at 0.27. Couldn't believe it until I recheck several times. I was listening on Tidal but you'll hear it on this Youtube version too.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Not sure how many Chris de Burgh fans out there, but his album Moonfleet and other stories, sounds fantastic with the 2031 drivers, thomson 6080 powers, and Ether Cs.


 

 Oh yeah Chris de Burgh...  'Lady in Red'... well known tune.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Who wouldn't like warm and relaxing on a winter night....


 
  
 Hey, winter's not as bad as you think. This week's been quite warm, mostly around +2.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Hey, winter's not as bad as you think. This week's been quite warm, mostly around +2.


 

 Yeah ri-ght ... +2 is freezing for me... literally...
  
 It's a crazy Summer here. From wild bush fires to torrential rains in the last week that cause trees uprooting and flooding. It's safer indoors tube rolling.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> Hey, winter's not as bad as you think. This week's been quite warm, mostly around +2.



It snowed in Denmark today, even though it was 6 degrees outside. We've had a warm winter this year. 

Hoping to get my EL6 soon. I also ordered 8 6N7S. They're the Russian equivalent of 6N7G. I'm not expecting a lot of those cheap tubes, but who knows? I might be surprised. 20$ shipped to Denmark for 8 tubes. 

Also, UT has sent me an FDD20 adapter, so I will finally be able to try 2x FDD20. Thanks UT, looking forward to it!


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Oh yeah Chris de Burgh...  'Lady in Red'... well known tune.




You got to listen to the song Spanish Train (album version) phenominal!


----------



## Oskari

We have ignition! EL3Ns, 6N13Ss, and sacrificial headphones.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You're getting use to the sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow! It's a dog for sure!!! Great recording.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yeah ri-ght ... +2 is freezing for me... literally...
> 
> It's a crazy Summer here. From wild bush fires to torrential rains in the last week that cause trees uprooting and flooding. It's safer indoors tube rolling.


 
 Your seasons are 180 degrees out of alignment and your toilets flush in the wrong direction. How does civilization survive down there???
  
 Do you have to turn the Elise knob counter clockwise to increase the volume???


----------



## Oskari

God, I love this.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1FqGm5z9X0[/VIDEO]


And isn't Caroline the sweetest ever?


----------



## puffmtd

pctazhp said:


> Sure there are also many people who prefer the HD800. And I could probably get an almost new HD800 now for less than the T1 Ver 2 will cost me if I keep it. My problem is I don't have access to either the HD800 or HD800S, so I just have to guess as to how the T1 compares to either of the Senns. Yes I could order HD800 now from Amazon and compare it to the T1. Maybe I will do that, but want to spend a little more time with the T1 before I make my next move - if any.
> 
> If I were king of the world, I would command every owner of an Elise to acquire the T1, HD800 and HD800S and report on the comparison of all three (together with reporting on what tube combination - of all possible combinations - works best with each headphone)


 

 You left one out.....and if all goes to plan I will be reporting how the Elise sounds with Hifiman HE1000.  The curiosity is about to get the better of me but I have to wait until Wednesday.


----------



## pctazhp

puffmtd said:


> You left one out.....and if all goes to plan I will be reporting how the Elise sounds with Hifiman HE1000.  The curiosity is about to get the better of me but I have to wait until Wednesday.


 
 The HE1000 is above my pay grade. But I'll be very anxious to hear what you think. It should be amazing


----------



## UntilThen

This thread is about to explode. @puffmtd I'll trade my HE560 for your HE1000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@pctazhp depends on how you look at the map. Just turn it around.
  
@Oskari  did I hear ignition? Was there spark or smoke? Do tell...


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> It snowed in Denmark today, even though it was 6 degrees outside. We've had a warm winter this year.
> 
> Hoping to get my EL6 soon. I also ordered 8 6N7S. They're the Russian equivalent of 6N7G. I'm not expecting a lot of those cheap tubes, but who knows? I might be surprised. 20$ shipped to Denmark for 8 tubes.
> 
> Also, UT has sent me an FDD20 adapter, so I will finally be able to try 2x FDD20. Thanks UT, looking forward to it!


 

 You're welcome Suuup. Waiting to hear how the EL6 develops.
  
 I'm glad to report that my 4 GE 6BL7GTA works like a charm. Bought it from Viva tubes and I reckon they're pretty good. They are true NOS and real NOS. Combined shipping saves me money.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @Oskari  did I hear ignition? Was there spark or smoke? Do tell...


 
  
 Just the newly glowing heaters.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Just the newly glowing heaters.


 

 You're man of few words aren't you.
  
 So ... EL3Ns, 6N13Ss  which is in driver and which is in power position? Can you at least offer some impressions other than the glow? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 kk.. not thinking here. of course 6N13S as powers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but who knows....


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> You got to listen to the song Spanish Train (album version) phenominal!


 

 AQ, this song is spooky !!!


----------



## UntilThen

I have on your same combo listening to 'Hey You' - Pink Floyd. Love this song.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> You're man of few words aren't you.




Absolutely, I'm a Finn after all. 




untilthen said:


> So ... EL3Ns, 6N13Ss which is in driver and which is in power position? Can you at least offer some impressions other than the glow? :tongue_smile:
> 
> kk.. not thinking here. of course 6N13S as powers. :bigsmile_face: but who knows....




Yes, EL3Ns as drivers. Way too early to tell anything really... but first impression is very positive.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnySDsNGD6o[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

LOL the song that you link, Faithless - I can't get no sleep/insomnia is very good on this combo.


----------



## UntilThen

Surprisingly with this song I prefer 6N13S as power tubes rather than 6BL7. 6N13S darker tone suits it better.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Not sure how many Chris de Burgh fans out there, but his album Moonfleet and other stories, sounds fantastic with the 2031 drivers, thomson 6080 powers, and Ether Cs.


 
  
 Thanks for that aqsw...never dared to admit before that one of my most favourite CD albums _ever _is "Crusader" - his earliest 'storytelling'-type music...along with "Spanish train and other Stories" (before things went downhill - IMHO - to appeal to a larger 'commercial' market, lol!)...good lyrics; good melodies; nice instrumentation and varied 'storylines' - from Crusades to the sad "Girl with April in her eyes", to "Spanish Train", to the wonderful "Patricia the Stripper" (yes, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....they just don't make 'em like that any more, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(just as well, some might say - alas also!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...to each his own...).
  
 ps. Also love his album "The Getaway"...


oskari said:


> We have ignition! EL3Ns, 6N13Ss, and sacrificial headphones.


 
  
 That's good news O....now how about those GEC/Osrams, my man?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> You're welcome Suuup. Waiting to hear how the EL6 develops.
> 
> I'm glad to report that my 4 GE 6BL7GTA works like a charm. Bought it from Viva tubes and I reckon they're pretty good. They are true NOS and real NOS. Combined shipping saves me money.


 
  
 More good work UT....such a shame we can't use our 'magic' drivers without needing an external heater power supply - could never go back to the likes of the 6N23P I'm afraid, even though they are very good tubes, lol...But look forward to how things develop for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!....


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> That's good news O....now how about those GEC/Osrams, my man?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Soon-ish.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> could never go back to the likes of the 6N23P I'm afraid, even though they are very good tubes, lol...But look forward to how things develop for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...CHEERS!....


 
 Was just trying out 4 6BL7 since I've the tubes already and I don't want to try external power supply anymore. 
  
 Pretty much Six EL3N is as good as it gets for me. It is very good ... TJ is running 4 .... I hope he gets some sleep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Patricia the Stripper is better than Spanish Train...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 This is where I am with my Elise and EL3N + 5998, dreaming in the la la land  What have I been missing or have missed so far? 6 x 6BL7? 6 x EL3N? LOL I don't think so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sunset at Brighton Beach, Melbourne Victoria. What a beautiful land!
  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones!
 LR


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Was just trying out 4 6BL7 since I've the tubes already and I don't want to try external power supply anymore.
> 
> Pretty much Six EL3N is as good as it gets for me. It is very good ... TJ is running 4 .... I hope he gets some sleep.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm really struggling at work ATM....because I really didn't get much sleep. Four EL3N is worth staying up for...
  
 I wonder how long it is before I crack and order the adapters and two more EL3Ns to complete my six-pack? I'm trying to resist, as all the EL3Ns I can find are either looking a bit worse for wear, or pretty expensive ATM.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Soon-ish.


 
  
 Ooohh, you're such a tease O!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....(I really do hope you manage to bag a pair without going bankrupt - it's real lonely out here, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 C'mon the rest of you guys...get finding those sleeping nuggets - unless I beat y'all to it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


tjw321 said:


> I'm really struggling at work ATM....because I really didn't get much sleep. Four EL3N is worth staying up for...
> 
> I wonder how long it is before I crack and order the adapters and two more EL3Ns to complete my six-pack? I'm trying to resist, as all the EL3Ns I can find are either looking a bit worse for wear, or pretty expensive ATM.


 
  
 Glad you're loving those EL3Ns, tjw...and _*of course*_ it won't be long before you crack - you're truly one of us (mad ones) now, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....(Heaven help you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). CHEERS!....


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Ooohh, you're such a tease O!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nah, sorry, gonna stay with the GEC 6080WA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
_Unless… _


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> This is where I am with my Elise and EL3N + 5998, dreaming in the la la land  What have I been missing or have missed so far? 6 x 6BL7? 6 x EL3N? LOL I don't think so...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi LR...._*you*_ certainly are a _very_ LUCKY ONE, to be having such a wonderful stay Down Under. Hope you had a great time with UT - there's no doubt about that, though lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Keep us posted....CHEERS!....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Was just trying out 4 6BL7 since I've the tubes already and I don't want to try external power supply anymore.
> 
> Pretty much Six EL3N is as good as it gets for me. It is very good ... TJ is running 4 .... I hope he gets some sleep.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So then UT...methinks it's about time you gave us an in-depth report on exactly how those 4x EL3N powers stack up against the 5998s...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And have to agree - I just _*love*_ 'Patricia' to bits, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(great song for lifting the spirits!...).


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Nah, sorry, gonna stay with the GEC 6080WA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And there was I, getting my hopes up...but don't we all live in hope, lol? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Grrrr....


I just know the people in customs are sitting there listening to my Elise right now!!!!!


----------



## hypnos1

perfectanalog said:


> Grrrr....
> 
> 
> I just know the people in customs are sitting there listening to my Elise right now!!!!!


 
  
 Yo PA...couldn't you sometimes just head right on down there and "make them an offer they couldn't refuse" lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....Ooops...careful now - think I can hear a knock on the door already!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Hope you don't have to wait _too_ much longer though...we can all feel your pain already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## tjw321

Have you moved, H1? I used to have lots of family in Suffolk, in the Lowestoft and Southwold areas.


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> Nah, sorry, gonna stay with the GEC 6080WA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The GEC 6080WA is already a wonderful sounding tube and still not so expensive..


----------



## Oskari

hpamdr said:


> The GEC 6080WA is already a wonderful sounding tube and still not so expensive..




... but it's getting there...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> This is where I am with my Elise and EL3N + 5998, dreaming in the la la land  What have I been missing or have missed so far? 6 x 6BL7? 6 x EL3N? LOL I don't think so...
> 
> ...


 
 LR, are you still in Melbourne? That is a very nice picture. Must be the camera hahaha. Ok both I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When are you going home?
  
 Ummm 6x6BL7 not for me but 6xEL3N is what I'm running now. Wish you could hear it. Want to come back to Sydney for that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy !!!


----------



## hypnos1

tjw321 said:


> Have you moved, H1? I used to have lots of family in Suffolk, in the Lowestoft and Southwold areas.


 
  
 Small world, tjw...Lowestoft's right on the button!
  


hpamdr said:


> *The GEC 6080WA is already a wonderful sounding tube *and still not so expensive..


 
 That's what I've gathered, hp - have you been able to compare it to the 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Bendix graphite plate 6080, or the like at all?
  
 Well, @Oskari, I've a feeling that with the EL3Ns in the driving seat, these powers just might not be _too_ far off the STs, lol...can't wait for your impressions of this combo...


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> I'm really struggling at work ATM....because I really didn't get much sleep. Four EL3N is worth staying up for...
> 
> I wonder how long it is before I crack and order the adapters and two more EL3Ns to complete my six-pack? I'm trying to resist, as all the EL3Ns I can find are either looking a bit worse for wear, or pretty expensive ATM.


 

 Going from four to six EL3N, silence becomes more silent ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and high tones just sound a lot more pleasant without your ears objecting. Mid range has focussed and peripheral sound does not overwhelm the clarity of the vocals. Bass is intoxicating, powerful but not bloomy. Control is the word that comes to mind.
  
 There is definitely more drive and control as evidenced by my HE560's distortion disappearing at 12 noon or greater with Six EL3N. On four EL3N, I get distortion with HE560 at 10.5 or greater. Pretty much like clipping, cone breakup or sound like. Even on T1 that has no distortion with 4x EL3N, six EL3N sounded better. 
  
 There's a wider and deeper soundstage. Superb imaging. Imaginary? Could be with a quieter background I'm hearing more now. Left and right channel sound are clearly discernible now and is very interesting !!! On a track where you have instruments sound darting back and forth, it's a sonic treat.
  
 Lastly it is a relaxing and musical sound signature. It's hard to put this together in words. An often used word...it is addictive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps... just forget what I say and enjoy your four EL3N lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It should sound good with HD600.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> So then UT...methinks it's about time you gave us an in-depth report on exactly how those 4x EL3N powers stack up against the 5998s...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@hypnos1  this is taking more time than I usually do. Problem is I end up listening to albums after albums and I forget all about comparisons and review with Six EL3Ns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All my favourites, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Eric Clapton and War of the Worlds... ahhhh Fanfare for the Common Man, blues, classic rock, selections of classical, electronic.... I can't stop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Soon, eventually when I get there if I ever come back to earth.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Grrrr....
> 
> 
> I just know the people in customs are sitting there listening to my Elise right now!!!!!


 

 Unbelievable !!! How can they !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well if I work in customs, that's what I would do.
  
 Be sure to tell us your first impressions PA !!! You should be getting it any minute now.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> ... but it's getting there...


 

 Did the EL3N cure insomnia or make it worst? Alright move on to the GEC 6080WA then tell us what you think.


----------



## UntilThen

I was curious about the Arioso (with 2A3 tubes) from the Feliks Audio stable. I ask Lukasz if that would be an upgrade to Elise if a headphone jack is built in. 
  
 Well Lukasz must have been very busy but he took the time to respond after consulting his dad. Said that the Arioso is built as a speaker tube amp primarily and even though a headphone jack can be included as an option, it would not be better in terms of SQ compared to Elise for headphone listening. In Elise we have a purpose built headphone tube amp with a bonus preamp function.
  
 I have to agree. With what Elise has given me now with all these tube rolling options, I don't need more.


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> ....
> That's what I've gathered, hp - have you been able to compare it to the 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Bendix graphite plate 6080, or the like at all?
> 
> ...


 
 I do not have any Bendix Graphite plate nor Chatham 6AS7G as i did not find any good deal around...
  
 I do have a single GEC 6AS7G, and pairs of 5998, 6080WA gec, 6080 Mullard AJ1,6080 csf, cifte.  and also russion 6H13C and 6H5C from the 60s.
 The 5998 tube is a bit strange for me because it can be very good with some E188CC, Sylvania VT-231, or even the 6N23P but it does not pair well with ECC31 or 6N7GT specially if i use HD650.
 The bass is to exposed for me, I've to admit that I'm not a low frequency lover.
  
 With ECC31 i really like mullard or GEC 6080, even if it sound warm,  it is precise and detailed. I do like a lot the result on both T1 and HD650.
  
 Tube combination experiment was taking me too much time over having pleasure to just listen/enjoy good music. 
  
 I mostly swap tubes depending on listening session and mood.
 The Ecc31 + Gec 6080 is for me a perfect with Jazz, pop, ... guitar, harpsichord if well recorded. For symphonic music 5998 with E188CC is a good match. And for more electronic music  with beatbox and many studio effect i like Russian combo 6H5C and 6N23P-EV ....


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Going from four to six EL3N, silence becomes more silent (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...you know what?...could have _sworn _you were talking about the GEC 'Coke bottles' when describing your 4x EL3N powers, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. Looks like you just might have found a good bit cheaper alternative there...assuming another source of reasonably priced NOS tubes can be found for those who didn't stock pile from Peter!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...GOOD WORK!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. The comparison can wait...you deserve to wallow in obvious contentment for a while longer...but not _too_ long, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Well, @Oskari, I've a feeling that with the EL3Ns in the driving seat, these powers just might not be _too_ far off the STs, lol...can't wait for your impressions of this combo...







untilthen said:


> Did the EL3N cure insomnia or make it worst? Alright move on to the GEC 6080WA then tell us what you think.




I slept very well after all the excitement last night. 

Tonight, the 6080WAs are in. Faithless still sounds good (and it's not even my kind of music). This combination seems somehow more accurate than the 6N13S/EL3N combination.

I'm not sure whether the GECs are fully burned-in or not but they must be at least pretty close. The EL3Ns need burn-in, and I need burn-in with them. I also need sleep. Again.

I also need a DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

I find using any power tubes to sound good with EL3N as drivers. Just different flavours. I like other drivers as well and I have a lot of them but I'm more drawn to the EL3N. That's just me.... ok maybe a few others too lol. H1 notably. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have on EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G now. I do like this combination a lot too. But and this is the big but... I keep getting drawn back to using EL3N as both drivers and power tubes. For me though it does not make the other tubes in my collection obsolete. It's different tone and certainly makes listening to music very interesting to switch them occasionally.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> I'm really struggling at work ATM....because I really didn't get much sleep. Four EL3N is worth staying up for...
> 
> I wonder how long it is before I crack and order the adapters and two more EL3Ns to complete my six-pack? I'm trying to resist, as all the EL3Ns I can find are either looking a bit worse for wear, or pretty expensive ATM.


 

 TJ, I can assure you 4 EL3N sounds very good too. I hate having to switch back to 4 EL3N from 6 because that means having to remove those tubes from the adapters. I did anyway just to refresh myself on using 4 EL3N. Sounds really awesome with T1. This is coming from Chatham 6AS7G. I clearly prefer using EL3N over Chatham as power tubes.
  
 Question of whether to get 6 pack is up to you. The adapters are expensive plus as you say you need to get 2 more EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks @hpamdr for your feedback - you seem to have most bases covered, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yo @Oskari - forget sleep, just keep burnin'-in those tubes!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And folks, I present to you my latest discoveries  :
  
 1. _Bulbus sharpicus maximus_
  

  
  
 2. ....and.... _minimus._
  

  
 Now I know for sure this hobby of ours has _completely_ taken over - not just _me_...even my flamin' _plants_, lol!!! ...and - OMG - this just might explain my better half's furtive discussions (re coffins?) with the Funeral Plan people recently!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










....HELP!!!!!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Yo @Oskari
> - forget sleep, just keep burnin'-in those tubes!! :wink_face:
> 
> Now I know for sure this hobby of ours has _completely_ taken over - not just _me_...even my flamin' _plants_, lol!!! ...and - OMG - this just might explain my better half's furtive discussions (re coffins?) with the Funeral Plan people recently!!   :eek: ....HELP!!!!!




Perhaps you share an interest in _zombies_...

 at the botanical stuff.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> *Perhaps you share an interest in zombies...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not too sure about that, O....but I do feel a kindred spirit to Grimm bros; Mary Shelley; Bram Stoker; Edgar Allan Poe et al!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(must admit, though, to having _felt _like a zombie these past few months' rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...goodness knows what state @UntilThen must be in after _his_ gargantuan efforts however, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...secretly, I'm convinced he's made more than just a few trips to the Carpathian mountains recently!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...


----------



## Oskari

CJ, you'll get the living death amongst you if you don't let me sleep. :wink_face:

P.S. I first read that as flamin' pants... :confused_face(1):


----------



## UntilThen

"It was the best of times, it was the age of tubes".... it's been more than 3 months now for me and this passion has not subsided. I'm glad I settle into music listening now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P.S. I first read that as flamin' pants... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That can happen too.
  
 (must admit, though, to having _felt_ like a zombie these past few months' rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...goodness knows what state).... That can happen too.
  
 All part of the Elise ownership experience.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> CJ, you'll get the living death amongst you if you don't let me sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 O...."Yea though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death"....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 ps...And boy, do _you_ need your sleep, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 pps...(Glad it wasn't total stony ground...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


untilthen said:


> "It was the best of times, it was the age of tubes".... it's been more than 3 months now for me and this passion has not subsided. I'm glad I settle into music listening now.


 
  
 Hi UT...."music listening" is pretty well where I'm at now - and ain't it wonderful LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to you too...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...."music listening" is pretty well where I'm at now - and ain't it wonderful LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@hypnos1  it ain't over till the fat lady sings and this is singing now. A better pic of Six Pack !!!
  

  
 PS:- Acknowledgement must be given where it's due.
  
 All thanks to you for proof of concept on EL3N and getting it to work and work well it did. All thanks to Glenn too for sharing on how to hitch C3G together. That was the start of this wonderful journey.
  
 Thanks also to whoever came up with this 'dual EL3N adapter' idea.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 U gotta talk to your plants:
  




  








  
 These cactus flowers may only last one day, but they are beautiful.


----------



## aqsw

Great pics Mordy,

Well, I'm still waiting for my el3n adapters. They say by Feb.4 as the latest on ebay.
Sold my 5998s on ebay. Only got 1 bid at the starting of $99.00. . Oh well.
Mazdas did not sell.

I really want to ty these el3ns before I have to make a decision on this amp.
Lucasz got back to me about my distorton and pretty well asked me if the tubes were good. Just what I expected.:mad:


----------



## UntilThen

Even stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue and 6BL7 sounded ok now. Gotta love this amp.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Even stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue and 6BL7 sounded ok now. Gotta love this amp.


 

 You just have to admit that with Elise it is really hard to find tube that sound crappy. And what make it so addictive for tube roller is that every tube you put in give it's own personallity staying quiet and never sounding bad. The door is open for experiment and really wide open as you know


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> You just have to admit that with Elise it is really hard to find tube that sound crappy. And what make it so addictive for tube roller is that every tube you put in give it's own personallity staying quiet and never sounding bad. The door is open for experiment and really wide open as you know


 
 Rightly said 
  
 I'm just alternating my tubes... quite frequently I must say. 
  
 Any new Elise owners?


----------



## hpamdr

aqsw said:


> I really want to ty these el3ns before I have to make a decision on this amp.
> Lucasz got back to me about my distorton and pretty well asked me if the tubes were good. Just what I expected.


 
 asqw i never get any distorded sound on my elise exected in those cases :
 I had an exhausted pair of tube that died...
 I did some experiment with medium mu as output tube with a low impedance earplug (around 20Ohm). 
 I was listening too loud with low mu tube as driver....
  
 If the sound is not really distorded but just having swing this can also comes from your power line give a try once with an inverter...


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> U gotta talk to your plants:
> 
> ...


 
  
*GORGEOUS* more like, mordy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....but are they "Coke bottles", lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 ps. Pretty exhaustive list of "likes" with your EL3N/6BL7 combo a short while ago - we certainly have taken Elise to another level entirely...Lukasz continues to be rather amazed at what we've been up to, and - thankfully! - congratulatory rather than criticisingly...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Will you be giving externally powered 4x 6BL7s a try at all - with the EL3Ns, of course!?...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

LOL have we gone on to flowers or cactus? Reminds me of my orchid days. Tubes are easier. No watering needed.
  
 I'm about to try RCA 6N7GT and RCA 6AS7GA... it's RCA show tonight.


----------



## puffmtd

Where's the C3g love?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Come on guys...I haven't heard anything about these in quite a while.  I'm running C3g drivers and 6AS7GA as powers for today and the sound is extremely dynamic.
 I would think for harder to drive headphones this might be a good combination especially for acoustic or string quartets.  Crystal clear!


----------



## UntilThen

C3G is crystal clear indeed but I need some smokey blues tone tonight on Eric Clapton again. So it's these tubes on brass adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 All my fav musicians together.


----------



## puffmtd

I'm waiting on another 6BL7 since one of mine decided to go to tube heaven.....maybe delivery today so I can try this combo later.
 On a side note, I'm expecting a new toy later next week.    An Adcom GCD-600 CD Player 5-Disc Changer from back in my earlier days.....then the Clapton CD's come out to play on Elise!


----------



## UntilThen

puffmtd said:


> I'm waiting on another 6BL7 since one of mine decided to go to tube heaven.....maybe delivery today so I can try this combo later.
> On a side note, I'm expecting a new toy later next week.    An Adcom GCD-600 CD Player 5-Disc Changer from back in my earlier days.....then the Clapton CD's come out to play on Elise!


 

 Where's the HE1000? 5-Disc Changer? It's all in the clouds now. iCloud


----------



## puffmtd

untilthen said:


> Where's the HE1000? 5-Disc Changer? It's all in the clouds now. iCloud


 

 Delayed.....darn it.  I looks like it's going to get here Friday (hopefully). 
 Yep, a CD player, I have a ton of them and nothing to play them with.  I'm curious to see how it sounds with the Elise and the price was right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't stream a lot of music but I download massive amounts.  I discovered Bandcamp a few months ago and it's nearly as addictive as this forum....................


----------



## pctazhp

puffmtd said:


> Where's the C3g love?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mr. Puffmtd ))) Your post prompted me to pull out the C3Gs from my Little Dot where they have sat lonely and unused since I got the Elise. Swapped out adapters and gave the C3Gs a run with my TS6520s in the power position. Sorry, but this combination just isn't for me. Just a little too overwhelming, and not as smooth as the EL3Ns.
  
 Increasingly, I am finding it difficult to go back to my (formerly) treasured HD700s from my new T1s. UT has no respect for my pocketbook 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will probably order my 3rd set of EL3Ns and Mrs. Xuling's dual adapter for the power position. But please don't tell this to UT. I'm waiting for a little while to see whether he discovers some new magical combination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So now we are waiting for you to report on the HE-1000, 6BL7s and the CD player ))) You've got a lot of work to do, and your followers are anxiously awaiting


----------



## puffmtd

pctazhp said:


> Mr. Puffmtd ))) Your post prompted me to pull out the C3Gs from my Little Dot where they have sat lonely and unused since I got the Elise. Swapped out adapters and gave the C3Gs a run with my TS6520s in the power position. Sorry, but this combination just isn't for me. Just a little too overwhelming, and not as smooth as the EL3Ns.
> 
> Increasingly, I am finding it difficult to go back to my (formerly) treasured HD700s from my new T1s. UT has no respect for my pocketbook
> 
> ...


 

 Yep....the C3g combos are pretty dynamic and about the only time I use them is with acoustic or things like solo violin, cello etc.
 The EL3N's are my preferred "good for everything" tube and the temptation ya'll are pushing for multiple EL3N setups is proving too much for me to ignore.


----------



## puffmtd

pctazhp..........did you get the original T1 or T1 version 2?  I'm curious as to what the sound signature is like or which headphone it may relate to sound wise.  Would you say it's genre specific or an all rounder for pretty much any genre?  I love the way they look but haven't had an opportunity to listen to one.


----------



## hypnos1

puffmtd said:


> Where's the C3g love?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo puffmtd...I still feel guilty for abandoning my former love, brought over from the LittleDot days...and which I never dreamt could be beaten, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But then came the ECC31, FDD20 and EL3N...along with the tears!...not to mention the T1s. It was these HPs that really sealed the fate of my Siemens C3g'S' - that fabulous treble was just a bit too much for the T1s (but does wonders for the Senn HD650s!). And that clarity sure is something else also...But I must admit that the EL3Ns are a good bit smoother overall than the C3g, without any noticeable loss of clarity or sparkle....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(again, with the T1s on the receiving end...).
  


pctazhp said:


> Mr. Puffmtd ))) Your post prompted me to pull out the C3Gs from my Little Dot where they have sat lonely and unused since I got the Elise. Swapped out adapters and gave the C3Gs a run with my TS6520s in the power position. Sorry, but this combination just isn't for me. Just a little too overwhelming, and not as smooth as the EL3Ns.
> 
> *Increasingly, I am finding it difficult to go back to my (formerly) treasured HD700s from my new T1s.* UT has no respect for my pocketbook
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct...you know, somehow I suspected all along this just might happen, lol - with extended listening (especially with our latest tubes), they do indeed become _very_ addictive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and good luck with trying to deny yourself the 4x EL3N power option - just give in right now, lol!...(UT will be proud!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - as will the rest of us...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...)


----------



## puffmtd

Hypnos.....I understand....the C3g's can be a little "in your face" but the dynamics just scream "listen to me!!!!" and sometimes that's a good thing.  They work really well with the Fostex TH-X00 and it's darker leaning sound sig......not so much with the Grado's.
 The EL3N's (so far) are my favorite tube in the driver position.....they just sound too good.  I guess I'm going to have to order at least two more to try four of them at once to see what UT is so hyped up about.


----------



## Suuup

Just got home from the post office. Edit: These are Tungsram EL6 tubes. 
  






  
 They're using Mrs Xu Lings adapters for the EL3N. Both tubes seems to be working. One initially had a weird plinging noise every 5 seconds, but it stopped after a few minutes. Burn-in to the rescue?
  
 Will post impressions later.


----------



## Oskari

puffmtd pctazhp UntilThen

Please specify which version of the C3g you are using.


----------



## puffmtd

EL6?  Anxious for your impressions.


----------



## puffmtd

oskari said:


> @puffmtd @pctazhp @UntilThen
> 
> Please specify which version of the C3g you are using.


 
 Mine are the Siemens with the black covers.


----------



## Oskari

puffmtd said:


> Mine are the Siemens with the black covers.




The shiny black covers (of the later tubes)?


----------



## Suuup

puffmtd said:


> EL6N?  Anxious for your impressions.


 
 No N, just EL6. Just realized I didn't write which tubes they were.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> No N, just EL6. Just realized I didn't write which tubes they were.




I see _Tungsram_. Do you know where they were made? Hungary?


----------



## Suuup

With EL6 as powers and C3g as drivers, the deck temperature is 36C degrees and the transformer temperature is 30C degrees. 


oskari said:


> I see _Tungsram_. Do you know where they were made? Hungary?


 
 Tungsram is from Hungary, and the seller was also Hungarian. My best guess would be Hungary, but I don't know for certain. There are no text on the tubes.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Tungsram is from Hungary, and the seller was also Hungarian. My best guess would be Hungary, but I don't know for certain. There are no text on the tubes.




There was a time they had widespread operations but I agree that Hungary seems likely here.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> There was a time they had widespread operations but I agree that Hungary seems likely here.


 
 Just checked, and I remembered wrong. Seller is not Hungarian but Bulgarian.


----------



## puffmtd

oskari said:


> The shiny black covers (of the later tubes)?


 

 Yes sir, they look just like these.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-C3g-SIEMENS-NOS-Tube-Valvula-Rohre-Valvola-Lampe-TSF-Valve-/391375341543?hash=item5b1fc9c7e7:g:xJYAAOSwpzdWrLjP


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Just checked, and I remembered wrong. Seller is not Hungarian but Bulgarian.




OK, probably still Hungarian (but who knows).


----------



## Suuup

puffmtd said:


> Yes sir, they look just like these.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-C3g-SIEMENS-NOS-Tube-Valvula-Rohre-Valvola-Lampe-TSF-Valve-/391375341543?hash=item5b1fc9c7e7:g:xJYAAOSwpzdWrLjP


 
 I didn't realize there are different Siemens C3g. Mine has a matte cover. Any differences?


----------



## puffmtd

suuup said:


> I didn't realize there are different Siemens C3g. Mine has a matte cover. Any differences?


 

 These are the only ones I've tried but I think they are all pretty much the same under the cover.  Don't hold me to that though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've seen clear glass ones also.  The cover is removable, leaving an ordinary looking glass tube but it involves some filing and other tools.


----------



## Oskari

puffmtd said:


> Yes sir, they look just like these.




Thanks!


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Just got home from the post office. Edit: These are Tungsram EL6 tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Suuup.
  
 These EL6 should prove _very _interesting as power tubes, given @UntilThen's findings with 4x EL3Ns. With twice the power output (18W plate dissipation), they might just give similar results to multiple 3Ns, lol? And if so...a. You will make UT sick as a parrot! 
 And b. Two tubes instead of four, and no need for double adapters?...WIN/WIN!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 So now, of course, we need to hear how they sound with EL3Ns in the driving seat!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







   CHEERS!!
  
 ps. They also come in the Philips 'Red Series' flavour...just to match the EL3Ns, lol!


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Suuup.
> 
> These EL6 should prove _very_ interesting as power tubes, given @UntilThen
> 's findings with 4x EL3Ns. With twice the power output (18W plate dissipation), they might just give similar results to multiple 3Ns, lol? And if so...a. You will make UT sick as a parrot!
> ...



I cannot test them with EL3N as drivers as 1. I do not like EL3N as drivers that much and 2. I only have 2 adapters.


----------



## Oskari

OK, I'll bleep that out. Finally got the editor buttons back.


----------



## UntilThen

Does this thread ever sleep?!!!


----------



## puffmtd

Well...my new 6BL7 arrived to replace the one that quit on me.  Wow!  The tube that quit must have been weak from the start because I don't remember them sounding like this......bass and treble and cymbal crashes everywhere.  EL3N in the drivers seat.  I think I'm going to keep this combo for awhile.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> I didn't realize there are different Siemens C3g. Mine has a matte cover. Any differences?


 
  
 It is generally understood that all the shiny, later ones were made by Siemens. It isn't as clear which of Siemens, Lorenz, Valvo, Telefunken manufactured the matte ones.
  


gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge, only Lorenz and Siemens manufactured the C3g. And as best as I can tell, Telefunken and Valvo are nothing more than rebranded Siemens. So again, there are only two versions out there.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I cannot test them with EL3N as drivers as 1. I do not like EL3N as drivers that much and 2. I only have 2 adapters.


 

 If you send me the EL6, I can test it ...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This looks interesting but one red tube on eBay is selling for $225. So I got up to hear everyone is going 6 pack and I think to myself, surely this will deplete whatever is left of the EL3N and then Suuup came to the rescue with the EL6... I know @hpamdr is eyeing EL34 and EL84 next. Keep it going guys. It's quite fascinating watching for a change. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My C3Gs are Lorenz and naked... I reckon they look better this way.
  
@pctazhp you found a new love ?  ... in the T1?  hmmm I told you not to look too much and not to listen too much.... because this is what will happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@puffmtd you're voted the most progressive tube roller for this week....but you need the T1 and it can be any Gen...just get the cheaper. Oh wait, if you're a bass head, get Gen2 but I've heard the difference isn't that great.... who knows. Buy both and test it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@Oskari stop killing the editor and give us an impression of EL3N.
  
@hypnos1 I'm quietly contented with Six Pack. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a whole lot of tubes here filling 3 drawers now.... still on RCA 6N7GT and GE 6BL7GTA now.


----------



## Oskari

puffmtd said:


> These are the only ones I've tried but I think they are all pretty much the same under the cover.  Don't hold me to that though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are some internal differences between versions.
  


sonictrance said:


> If anyone was wondering what the difference between the Lorenz C3G and Siemens C3GS looks like, here it is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

EL34 as power tubes can be interesting. 6.3v 1.5A


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> I didn't realize there are different Siemens C3g. Mine has a matte cover. Any differences?


 
  
 The matte Lorenz C3g is quite civilized indeed, in my system. The shiny Siemens may be slightly more in-your-face but I haven't heard it in my system. Where does this leave the matte Siemens? I don't know.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @Oskari stop killing the editor and give us an impression of EL3N.


 
  
 They are resting tonight.


----------



## mordy

EL34 has an octal base. Is it plug and play, or does it need an adapter for use in the Elise?


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> EL34 has an octal base. Is it plug and play, or does it need an adapter for use in the Elise?


 
 No, EL34 is a pentode. It requires an adapter.


----------



## mordy

Could not find anything suitable on Ebay EL34 to 6SN7. 
  
 Curious to hear how the EL6 compares to the EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Could not find anything suitable on Ebay EL34 to 6SN7.


 
 You won't. Someone has to test this out first but EL34 is well known in audio amps circles. I think of EL3N as progressing to EL34.


----------



## pctazhp

I've been trying to respond to several posts here, but this site is freezing up so bad on me, I'm just getting mad and am giving up for now. This happens a lot to me, but it is particularly bad today. Maybe it is a problem with my connection, but I don't have this problem on any other sites ((((


----------



## hpamdr

You are


suuup said:


> No, EL34 is a pentode. It requires an adapter.


 

 Right, Suup ! it is the same story as EL3N  you have a Penthode that you turn into a single triode and the wire to 6SN7 socket.
  
 To strap pentode into a triode you can follow this guide : http://www.kaponk.com/~yanyong/ETF06TS.pdf
 The resitor between A and G2 is not mandatory but any values from 50 to 500Ohm 1/2W is OK and use the same value on all adapter.
  
 For plugin a triode into Elise you have to use this scheme (Thx to Colin and Matt for support)
 A   ->  A2
 G  ->  G1
 K  ->  K2  
 F/F -> F/F
  
 For a dual Adapter, wire AGK to each side...


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> You won't. Someone has to test this out first but EL34 is well known in audio amps circles. I think of EL3N as progressing to EL34.


 
 Actually, EL34 is the successor to EL6. The successor to EL3N is EL41, which again is succeeded by EL84.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Actually, EL34 is the successor to EL6. The successor to EL3N is EL41, which again is succeeded by EL84.


 

 Interesting times ahead. Sorry for our wallets. From EL3N, I'd like to progress to EL34, which is cheaper with lots of reissue from EH and Tung Sol and I reckon have great potential. Obi One aka @hypnos1 ...hey it rhymes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .... how about coming out of retirement and look into EL34?
  
@hpamdr all I did was relay H1's info and then get to enjoy the glorious sound.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I've been trying to respond to several posts here, but this site is freezing up so bad on me, I'm just getting mad and am giving up for now. This happens a lot to me, but it is particularly bad today. Maybe it is a problem with my connection, but I don't have this problem on any other sites ((((


 

 It's heavy traffic here lol. We're having pentodes for breakfast.


----------



## UntilThen

LOL @hypnos1 made it pass 1500 posts.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright Suuup, when you have more hours into it, can you tell us how EL6 compares to EL3N in the power sockets with C3G driving.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Alright Suuup, when you have more hours into it, can you tell us how EL6 compares to EL3N in the power sockets with C3G driving.


 
 Will compare to 5998 first, and with 6N7G in the drivers seat, as that is the combo with which I have the most experience. 
  
 One thing I can say, is that I have the volume knob at 12:30 with 6N7G as drivers.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> One thing I can say, is that I have the volume knob at 12:30 with 6N7G as drivers.


 
 I wonder if this has anything to do with pentode strapped as triodes. I notice too that with single EL3N in the power position, I need to turn up the volume knob 12noon. With dual EL3N per power socket, I'm back to normal at 10.5


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I've been trying to respond to several posts here, but this site is freezing up so bad on me, I'm just getting mad and am giving up for now. This happens a lot to me, but it is particularly bad today. Maybe it is a problem with my connection, but I don't have this problem on any other sites ((((


 
  


untilthen said:


> It's heavy traffic here lol. We're having pentodes for breakfast.


 
  
 What is ridiculously heavy is this site. Scripts, ads, etc., etc., ad nauseam, some of them buggy.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> What is ridiculously heavy is this site. Scripts, ads, etc., etc., ad nauseam, some of them buggy.


 
 Running an ad blocker alleviates a lot of that. 
  


untilthen said:


> I wonder if this has anything to do with pentode strapped as triodes. I notice too that with single EL3N in the power position, I need to turn up the volume knob 12noon. With dual EL3N per power socket, I'm back to normal at 10.5


 
 You should try dual EL6.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Running an ad blocker alleviates a lot of that.
> 
> You should try dual EL6.


 

 Ugh ugh I can't possibly taste every fruit in the orchard. 4 EL6 will cause a stock market crash !


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Running an ad blocker alleviates a lot of that.


 
  
 The developers having an ounce of sense would help, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll stop ranting now.


----------



## Suuup

Okay, I have about a couple of hours on the EL6 now. I really want them to be good, I do. Are they good? Yea, they're pretty good. Are they better than 5998? No way. Well.. 
  
 These are bass heavy, like the EL3N (as drivers, I haven't tried EL3N as powers yet (yet!)), with a slightly recessed treble. Mids are very good also. The sound is kind of thick, and the bass has very good slam. 
  
 I've been running them with Visseaux 6N7G for an hour and C3g for an hour.
  
 At first I listened to Mark Knopfler with the C3g. Not too impressive.
 I then listened to some metal. Here it was actually really good. They could somehow 'fill up' my T1, like my 1770 was filled up. It's actually so good, that I'll probably be rolling EL6 as powers every time I want to listen to metal.
 Switched drivers to 6N7G. Listened to more metal. Not as good, but still pretty decent. Listened to more Mark Knopfler. Better than with C3g as drivers. A lot better actually. 
 Swapped back my 5998 as powers. Listened to even more Mark Knopfler. I have to admit, 5998 is better than EL6 for Mark Knopfler, by quite a bit even. 
  
 Of course, my 5998 is fully burned in, whereas the EL6 only has a couple of hours on it. Will burn some more, and try to do a comparison to EL3N as powers.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> The developers having an ounce of sense would help, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Certainly. My 'subscriptions' page takes >30 seconds to load. No idea why. Only happens on computer, on the phone it loads in a few seconds. You work in IT O?


----------



## Oskari

Perhaps I do.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> LOL @hypnos1 made it pass 1500 posts.


 
  
 Will there be cake? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.S. Congrats!


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> Will there be cake?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 one like this one


----------



## whirlwind

suuup said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > The developers having an ounce of sense would help, too.
> ...


 
 Do you happen to use goole chrome as your browser by any chance ?
  
 If so...type chromelugins in the address bar, hit enter...then disable flash player


----------



## Suuup

If anyone wants a challenge, make the 6C33C work in Elise. It would require an external power supply, but I very much think it'd be worth it. We could make our own Zana Deux - Elise version.


----------



## Suuup

whirlwind said:


> Do you happen to use goole chrome as your browser by any chance ?
> 
> If so...type chromelugins in the address bar, hit enter...then disable flash player


 
 Just tried that, didn't do anything for the load time. It's only the subscription page. Everything else loads in an 'okay' time. Not fast, but I can live with it.


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> one like this one


 
  
 LIKE IT, hp! (where on Earth did you find _that_, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 And thanks @UntilThen and @Oskari...never even noticed it!!  And so now I'm a "supremus"?...does that mean I can insult people with impunity? - as if I would, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 Will pass on the cake, however...and just settle for a bottle or two of that Hennessy XO....CHEERS! everyone...time for an early night - (to dream of new tubes?...more like nightmares, lol! ...MERCY, please!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Will pass on the cake, however...and just settle for a bottle or two of that Hennessy XO....CHEERS! everyone...time for an early night - (to dream of new tubes?...more like nightmares, lol! ...MERCY, please!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Henessy XO is really great specially when listening some relaxing music.  You can even heat your glass if you put it on the transformer near the FA Sticker lol !
 I did born not that far from Cognac


----------



## supersonic395

I'll have my Elise soon! Probably just over a month to go! 

Cannot wait


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And thanks @UntilThen and @Oskari...never even noticed it!!  *And so now I'm a "supremus"?*...does that mean I can insult people with impunity? - as if I would, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes and now you have to get EL34 going. With the title comes more tube rolling... LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


>


 

 Not sure why what you wrote disappear why I quote on you but anyway, good feedback there. 
  
 Just goes to show preference for 5998 can be different for different folks. As for me, there's no doubt it will have a place in my Wall of Tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 5998 is dynamic sounding. Depending on the mood, I may or may not like it. On a late night listen, I'll not automatically pick it but during the daytime when I want to spin some classic rock then yeah 5998 sure appeals. 
  
 I kind of like the tone from the latest tubes to grace my collection. Namely EL3N and 6BL7. Even right now I'm still running RCA 6N7GT and 6BL7. A darker, warmer tone from the RCAs but a nice change. A swap to C3G and 5998 will certainly shift the mood....perhaps I need that now.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I'll have my Elise soon! Probably just over a month to go!
> 
> Cannot wait


 

 What happened Supersonic? Led Zeppelin cannot wait for a month and the T1 G2 is dying for a good dose of tube amp goodness.


----------



## pctazhp

I'll try to make this quick. I don't want to write several paragraphs just to have the screen freeze and lose everything.
  
 To everyone who has recommended the T1, thank you. This pair is starting to blossom. BTW, it's a Version 2. I've never heard the Version 1. From what I have read, it seems to me that with the Ver 2, Beyer has tried to make some of the same adjustments (but apparently implemented much differently) as Senn has with the HD800S. I understand the Ver 2 may be a little more gentle with trebles, possibly slightly less detail and a tad more bass. Those are also the main differences I have read from people who have compared the 800 and 800S.
  
 I really like how the T1 seems to be opening up, gaining more bass, showing strong, clear and natural mid-range.  The trebles sparkle without irritating -except on bad recordings. The HD700s may be slightly more forgiving in some ways, but in comparison to the T1s they are very colored. That is starting to annoy me. Maybe if I went back to them for a couple of days straight my ears would re-calibrate  back to when I loved the 700s. Not sure if I have that in me right now.
  
 All in all, the T1s are so musical, entertaining and non-fatiguing I can listen for hours.
  
 As for tubes, for now I'm sticking with EL3N/TS6520s. You guys have awesome minds. I don't know how you keep track of all the different permutations. At least I did order my third pair pair of EL3Ns and will order the dual adapters when Mrs. Xuling is off vacation.
  
 Wow! I made it all the way through the post without a freeze. Maybe it works better for me when I don't try to quote someone.


----------



## pctazhp

whirlwind said:


> Do you happen to use goole chrome as your browser by any chance ?
> 
> If so...type chromelugins in the address bar, hit enter...then disable flash player


 
 Thanks ))) Just saw your post. I use Chrome because of Tidal HiFi. I just followed your instructions. Hope that solves my problem


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> To everyone who has recommended the T1, thank you.
> At least I did order my third pair pair of EL3Ns and will order the dual adapters when Mrs. Xuling is off vacation.


 
 Got Six Pack on now with T1. This is dynamite with 'Another Brick In The Wall'. I love Pink Floyd with this setup. I'm sure Roger Waters does too.
  
 Mrs Xuling is having chinese new year holiday. It's a big thing in China.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Got Six Pack on now with T1. This is dynamite with 'Another Brick In The Wall'. I love Pink Floyd with this setup. I'm sure Roger Waters does too.


 
 I'll be joining you with the Six Pack in 2 or 3 weeks when the adapters make it across the Pacific and into the Arizona frontier )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'll be joining you with the Six Pack in 2 or 3 weeks when the adapters make it across the Pacific and into the Arizona frontier )))


 

 I was having a great time with RCA 6N7GT and 6BL7, then I switch to 6 pack and wow....just wow. So much difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It may not be everyone's cup of tea but it sure is my brandy...my XO. You hear that @hypnos1  ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Got to listen to Rogers Waters 'The Wall' album on this.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

*Elise has arrived! *
  

 (8.5" x 11" Paper for scale)
  

  
  
 Sylvania USA Green Label Chrome Top 6SN7GTA to start.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> *Elise has arrived! *
> 
> Sylvania USA Green Label Chrome Top 6SN7GTA to start.


 
  
 Where's the like button. Congrats !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I have the Sylvania chrome top but mine are GTB. Sweet clear sounding drivers.


----------



## puffmtd

perfectanalog said:


> *Elise has arrived! *
> 
> 
> (8.5" x 11" Paper for scale)
> ...


 

 Excellent! Congratulations and enjoy.


----------



## DecentLevi

Today I got my 6th EL3N and most of the adapters. I don't have the Elise yet but was trying to fit the tube into the adapter... man am I having one heck of a time!!! I exhausted myself and gave up after trying to cradle that thing in back and forth, pushing so hard it made me sweat out of fret that I may break the tube into small bits before inserting it. I really don't want to be the EL3 villain, so will somebody try to give me a pointer on how to insert the dang thing into the EL3N to 6SN7 adapter? Thanks...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Today I got my 6th EL3N and most of the adapters. I don't the the Elise yet but was trying to fit the tube into the adapter... man am I having one heck of a time!!! I exhausted myself and gave up after trying to cradle that thing in back and forth, pushing so hard it made me sweat out of fret that I may break the tube into small bits before inserting it. I really don't want to be the EL3 villian, so will somebody try to give me a pointer on how to insert the dang thing into the EL3N to 6SN7 adapter? Thanks...


 

 There is only one way to insert it. *Position the pins against the contacts and push in firmly*. Don't try and push in and out. You'll just mess up the spring clips. I hold the tube towards the base where the glass meets the base so I don't exert pressure entirely on the glass.
  
 It will go in and once in, it's easy to remove and reinsert. 
  
 PS... to make it easier.. you can push the spring clips in the middle in a bit. That will reduce the tightness. Or use a bit of Deoxit on the spring clips.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK now I was able to insert it, seemed the spring pins in the adapter were a little too far outward so I had to use a slot screwdriver to reduce the tightness a bit first. Thanks for your customer support. Do you take Visa or Mastercard? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now time for the EL11, EL34 and EL37 (the last one is not for real)


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Do you take Visa or Mastercard?


 
 Just a coke will do.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

The contacts on my FDD20's are hideously corroded.  Cleaning them is going to take a while.
 Fortunately, my plan is to not swap tubes until I get a good feel of where I am with my current tubes.
  
 Anyone know if the Silver on the RVC FDD20's is there for anything other than show?  
 I want to take some alcohol and remove it.


----------



## DecentLevi

The silver on the FDD20's is only for appearance... and possibly to keep the internals a secret at the time. I just removed the paint from my yesterday, and regret doing it too hastily - I couldn't find a proper brush thing to remove it so just settled for a wire brush, and along with the paint came off most of the lettering.
  
 Also in case anyone doesn't mind shedding some light on this - I tried a single FDD20 (with 12 volt supply) in my other amp and it was too bright sounding with recessed bass, and a fairly loud buzz. Does the sound even out with more burn-in?


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> What happened Supersonic? Led Zeppelin cannot wait for a month and the T1 G2 is dying for a good dose of tube amp goodness.


 

Nothing really happened, but it's all good now and Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are awaiting!!


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> The contacts on my FDD20's are hideously corroded.  Cleaning them is going to take a while.
> Fortunately, my plan is to not swap tubes until I get a good feel of where I am with my current tubes.
> 
> Anyone know if the Silver on the RVC FDD20's is there for anything other than show?
> I want to take some alcohol and remove it.


 
 You should have return the FDD20 if the contacts are so badly corroded. If you do decide to salvage it, don't file or sandpaper it as that will shorten the paddles and then it will be hard to make contact with the adapter. Use Deoxit on the corroded contacts. Red followed by gold. Red to remove corrosion and gold to protect it.
  
    
  
  
  
 Silver paint is easily remove with plastic wire dish washing sponge. Wet it a bit and brush the tube. The paint should come off easily. This is the end result. The 2 without labels are RVC with paint removed.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> The silver on the FDD20's is only for appearance... and possibly to keep the internals a secret at the time. I just removed the paint from my yesterday, and regret doing it too hastily - I couldn't find a proper brush thing to remove it so just settled for a wire brush, and along with the paint came off most of the lettering.
> 
> Also in case anyone doesn't mind shedding some light on this - I tried a single FDD20 (with 12 volt supply) in my other amp and it was too bright sounding with recessed bass, and a fairly loud buzz. Does the sound even out with more burn-in?


 
 FDD20 when new doesn't sound that way on Elise but as with most tubes, sound will change after considerable burn in. Not sure what the loud buzz is when use on your other tube amp. Loud hum can be removed by grounding it with a separate ground wire.
  


supersonic395 said:


> Nothing really happened, but it's all good now and Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are awaiting!!


 
  





 ... soon you'll get it like everyone else. I'm enjoying my music. Your T1 will sound superb with Elise. As Suuup always says, Elise + T1 is a perfect combo  I couldn't agree more. There are several Elise + T1 owners here. Both pctazhp and you have the Gen 2 version while the rest have the original. I believe both versions will sound great with Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> I'll have my Elise soon! Probably just over a month to go!
> 
> *Cannot wait*


 
  
 Neither can we, lol! New blood is always so welcome - the more the merrier! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Sounds like the Feliks guys are still getting a much bigger response than they ever expected...methinks MK2 will have to be postponed a good while! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... Actually, we have now got her performing to such a high level, any unit "improvements" would probably need to be at a cost level that might just lose the competetive edge. But who knows, they just may be able to pull yet _another_ rabbit out of the hat, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
  


pctazhp said:


> Thanks ))) Just saw your post. I use Chrome because of Tidal HiFi. I just followed your instructions. Hope that solves my problem


 
  
 Hey guys....I gave up trying to use head-fi with IE and Chrome - I personally find Firefox, with AdblockPlus, works much faster and less 'glitchy' (and yes, I too wonder sometimes what the devil is going on in the background with this site!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And glad the T1s are settling in nicely for you...and you to _them_, lol!


----------



## hypnos1

perfectanalog said:


> The contacts on my FDD20's are hideously corroded.  Cleaning them is going to take a while.
> Fortunately, my plan is to not swap tubes until I get a good feel of where I am with my current tubes.
> 
> Anyone know if the Silver on the RVC FDD20's is there for anything other than show?
> I want to take some alcohol and remove it.


 
  
 Congrats on getting your Elise - she looks more beautiful with every new unit that arrives, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. Happy times ahead....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Shame about those FDD20s - I do hope they perform OK (if not, send 'em straight back, as UT says...). And if no joy, I just might have a spare pair of the (slightly better performing IMHO) NOS Philips tubes.
  
 Yes...get rid of that awful silver paint and behold the gorgeous blue coating inside! - but not until you've made sure they work OK!!
  
 This may be a good point at which to show how I personally rigged the external power supply  :
  

  
 A cheap 12V 6A laptop PS/charger, with an in-line switch added for convenience.
  
 And note the very short piece of grey wire connecting the DC neg. out from the PS across to the Earth wire of the mains cable for grounding purposes, rather than linked into the RCA plug of the amp...worked 100% for me, and far preferable (in my case at least, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 I used simple block connectors, wrapped with insulating tape - crude, perhaps, but worked perfectly...and out of sight anyway...
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## ostewart

No love for the cheaper Espressivo on head-fi?
I love mine...


----------



## hypnos1

ostewart said:


> No love for the cheaper Espressivo on head-fi?
> I love mine...


 
  
 Hi ostewart...yeah, never seemed to catch on, alas (perhaps needed stonger presence in thread land?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Nice looking good value unit, and would be really interesting to compare side-to-side with Elise, lol....the Espressivo is in fact what encouraged me to approach the Feliks guys and suggest to them a unit based around the 6SN7/6AS7G, as I felt the Espressivo was let down somewhat by the tube config'n, given my results with upgrading the tubes in my LittleDot MKIV SE.
  
 The rest is history, as they say. And Lukasz himself admitted how much better the Elise turned out compared to the Espressivo.
  
 Must admit it would have been interesting to see how our tube 'meddling' might have just raised its game, as we did with Elise, but I personally have pretty well had my fill of it now, I'm afraid! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Glad you love your own Feliks creation though...they do make exceedingly good amps, to be sure...


----------



## Lorspeaker

specially for @UntilThen n @Hypnos1


----------



## pctazhp

lorspeaker said:


> specially for @UntilThen n @Hypnos1


 
 UT and H1 are apparently asleep, so I pushed ahead of them in line to listen.
  
 Beyond special. This is what in my day we would have called a Show Stopper!!! Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> specially for @UntilThen n @Hypnos1




  
 Hey L, always knew you were a softie at heart, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...nearly made me cry...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   CHEERS!
  
 Who'd have thought _that_ voice would emerge from that pretty face...some performer! (shame about the dress/skirt/whatever though - doesn't do her justice, IMHO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
@pctazhp....how _dare_ you pip us to the post?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but glad you like it too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.  As I mentioned to @ostewart re. his Espressivo, perhaps if you had encouraged someone to go all out in heralding that amp, as you did with me and the Elise, then perhaps the Feliks guys would have been kept ultra busy with _that_ one, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....on second thoughts - _*glad you didn't!*_....else they might have rejected my plea for the Elise-to-be (and that doesn't even bear _thinking_ about!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...).


----------



## ostewart

Fair enough, everyone who sees the Espressivo and hears it (Voskhod tubes) is incredibly impressed by the price, many value it at £500 and more (GBP because I live in the UK).
  
 Either way the Elise does have a lot more rolling capability, but the Espressivo has 3 inputs, swings and roundabouts, and I don't have the funds for the Elise, could only afford the Espressivo


----------



## hypnos1

ostewart said:


> Fair enough, everyone who sees the Espressivo and hears it (Voskhod tubes) is incredibly impressed by the price, many value it at £500 and more (GBP because I live in the UK).
> 
> Either way the Elise does have a lot more rolling capability, but the Espressivo has 3 inputs, swings and roundabouts, and I don't have the funds for the Elise, could only afford the Espressivo


 
  
 Yo ostewart....incredible value-for-money. And the wood side panels add a nice touch as well...still can't decide whether I prefer the 'cleaner', more minimalist look of Elise, or something with a little more 'chutzpah'! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (but if so, I think I would want it to be something like Yamamoto's gorgeous lacquered creations...if I had the $$$$$$£££££££, that is!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 But as I look over to my baby with all-'Coke bottle' tubes, I still think she looks *good!!*





...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Who'd have thought _that_ voice would emerge from that pretty face...some performer! (shame about the dress/skirt/whatever though - doesn't do her justice, IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was thinking the same thing, but too modest to say anything


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I was thinking the same thing, but too modest to say anything


 
  
 Used to be like that myself, amico mio...but no more -  just one of the very few advantages of getting older..... in _my_ case, anyway LOL!


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Used to be like that, amico mio...but just one of the very few advantages of getting older - in _my_ case, anyway LOL!


 

 Getting older is the case for all of us...


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> You are
> 
> Right, Suup ! it is the same story as EL3N  you have a Penthode that you turn into a single triode and the wire to 6SN7 socket.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And for pentodes don't forget A needs to be linked to its G2; and K to its G3(if not already linked inside the tube, as it is in the EL3N).
  
 ps. I (and iluvmusic2) found that using those resistors degraded the sound quite noticeably when we tried that with our C3gs, and haven't used them since...


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Yo ostewart....incredible value-for-money. And the wood side panels add a nice touch as well...still can't decide whether I prefer the 'cleaner', more minimalist look of Elise, or something with a little more 'chutzpah'!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks H1 tor having jack on the front !
 Thanks H1 to not have asked for  platted gold knob, lacquered front and marble top !
  
 Even the blue led is too much for me


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> Thanks H1 tor having jack on the front !
> Thanks H1 to not have asked for  platted gold knob, lacquered front and marble top !
> 
> Even the blue led is too much for me


 
  
 Yeah, hp...._NO WAY_ were we gonna have that HP jack sticking out of the top, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And you obviously like the minimalist look - which seems to appeal to most...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. At least blue is better than red - in my book at least!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hpamdr

Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> And for pentodes don't forget A needs to be linked to its G2; and K to its G3(if not already linked inside the tube, as it is in the EL3N).
> 
> ps. I (and iluvmusic2) found that using those resistors degraded the sound quite noticeably when we tried that with our C3gs, and haven't used them since...


 
 Thanks for the tip ! (which values did you tried ? )


----------



## hpamdr

> ps. At least blue is better than red - in my book at least!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Orange like heater fillament and less powerful, I like old neon tubes to just have an halo....


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> Quote:
> Thanks for the tip ! (which values did you tried ? )


 
  
 Can't remember now, I'm afraid...but was basically around the lower values.
  
 Restrained orange glow?...sounds good, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> specially for @UntilThen n @Hypnos1


 
@Lorspeaker that's so sweet of you. Thank you.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Incredibly I was just listening to Whitney sing this song yesterday.
  
 So for you, I hope life treats you kind and gets you an Elise. And I hope you've all you dreamed of. I wish you joy and happiness. Now after all that wishing, just send me the LCD2.2 for evaluation... while you're at it, send me the AKG K812 as well.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yes and now you have to get EL34 going. With the title comes more tube rolling... LOL.


 
  
 Hi UT...the EL34 certainly does seem to have a good pedigree and following, but that *25W* plate dissipation - as opposed to the 6AS7G's 13W - I suspect is getting _*way*_ off spec, and so shan't be going there I'm afraid...._sorry!!_





 ...
  
 Looks like I'll have to rescind the title and enjoy my retirement after all!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Besides, having wallowed in some lovely, more extended 'listening sessions' of pieces I hadn't heard for a while and being blown away once more, I am happy to say (yet again!)..._*this is it!!!*_











...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...the EL34 certainly does seem to have a good pedigree and following, but that *25W* plate dissipation - as opposed to the 6AS7G's 13W - I suspect is getting _*way*_ off spec, and so shan't be going there I'm afraid...._sorry!!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 You've done more than enough _*mon ami . *_Thanks for everything. You deserved a rest and just enjoy the music.
  
 I mean just look at this... doesn't she look gorgeous.... BUT .... it's not just looks. She sound as good as she looks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


 A different view from the top.
  
 I know what I want in MK2 ... 4 power tubes


----------



## hpamdr

Tonight i'm listening "The Warm Sound" with KR VT231 and 5998..  Frances Wayne is like just kissing my ears...


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> Tonight i'm listening "The Warm Sound" with KR VT231 and 5998..  Frances Wayne is like just kissing my ears...


 

 I bet Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT231 and 5998 sounds good. I didn't get that but got the RCA 6SN7GT VT231 instead...


----------



## UntilThen

I wash my T1's ear pads yesterday with warm soapy water. Dried it over a heater with a towel. It's now fresh and caressing my ears... if you listen as often as I do, you need to wash the pads too haha. 
  
 I have to get a spare T1 original ear pad soon.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> I know what I want in MK2 ... 4 power tubes


 
 Why not like the gleen:
 Output:: 6 x 6BL7 or 4 x 6AS7G or 2 x 6336A  
 and multiple transformer to heat 2V, 6V, 12V, 25V... with selector on each section/tube.
 TheTube roller Nirvana


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> Why not like the gleen:
> Output:: 6 x 6BL7 or 4 x 6AS7G or 2 x 6336A
> and multiple transformer to heat 2V, 6V, 12V, 25V... with selector on each section/tube.
> TheTube roller Nirvana


 

 BUT then we have nothing to do !!!  We need to do something LOL. 
  
 Yes that is a good idea. 
  
 However Elise at this price point is incredible value. With so much tube rolling options now. It's beyond my wildest imagination.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Who'd have thought _that_ voice would emerge from that pretty face...some performer!




Think that took some lungs as well...

She has them!


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> I bet Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT231 and 5998 sounds good. I didn't get that but got the RCA 6SN7GT VT231 instead...


 

 KR VT231 are on the dark side of the 6SN7GT Dynamic, warm, bassy, with a good medium but the highs are not perfects (even if very clear). This is not a transparent tube, If you like BASS this is the 6SN7GT driver you need it is like pushing loudness button. All recording details seems to be amplified.

 For me the sound is more controlled  than with RCA. I like RCA with some old blues, country and some soul music... When recording is aproximative or with crappy Mp3 this tube give  musical result as if default were a bit smoothed..


----------



## UntilThen

How's this for desktop speakers? Can't complain when it's another gift from my better half. Elise preamp to this.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Is there actually an adapter for the 6080's or can you plug them straight in?


----------



## UntilThen

Straight in


----------



## supersonic395

pctazhp said:


> I'll try to make this quick. I don't want to write several paragraphs just to have the screen freeze and lose everything.
> 
> To everyone who has recommended the T1, thank you. This pair is starting to blossom. BTW, it's a Version 2. I've never heard the Version 1. From what I have read, it seems to me that with the Ver 2, Beyer has tried to make some of the same adjustments (but apparently implemented much differently) as Senn has with the HD800S. I understand the Ver 2 may be a little more gentle with trebles, possibly slightly less detail and a tad more bass. Those are also the main differences I have read from people who have compared the 800 and 800S.
> 
> ...




Really good to read your impressions.

Did you get the stock Elise and what does your T1.2 sound like with the Elise now?


----------



## supersonic395

perfectanalog said:


> *Elise has arrived! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What are your impressions like out of the box?


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> What are your impressions like out of the box?


----------



## JazzVinyl

2x 6BL7 adapters arrived. One is fine, the other is super loose at the base. Have alerted Mrs Xuling that there is a problem with the one. They work fine.

Test songs are Rickie Lee Jones "Show Biz Kids" (Steely Dan cover) and Rickie Lee Jones "Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys (Traffic cover).

Know both of these well, and are known to be well recorded and mastered.

It was Mullard 6080's vs 2x 6BL7

It's not a fight, 2x 6BL7 kills the Mullards dead flat.

Not only is bass enormous and deeper (much deeper) but there is tons of inner detail in the mids and high frequencies 
revealed via the 2x 6BL7, that the 6080 barely hints at. 

Mordy, I think, suggested an adapter to plug into both power sockets at once, on the Elise, and provide 3x 6BL7's
per side and designed to be externally heated. If this got produced, I would jump on it, in a heartbeat.

Cost is secondary, when you get THIS much SQ improvement.

Glenn was right, when he said Multiple 6BL7's are superb.








Those are Ken Rad VT231 (6SN7GT) in the Drivers' seats, also amazing and wonderful on this amp. 
They are being heated externally so that the 6 amp total 6BL7's "current pigs" can drink up what Miss 
Elise has to offer.



Here is Ms Jones:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hw4BIYh-2s[/VIDEO]


----------



## DecentLevi

Congrats @JazzVinyl - looks like you are the first to experience the 6 6BL7 setup, as you were with so many others. That's a hard reputation to match 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So I'm sure the next burning question would be - how does this setup compare to 4 / 6 EL3N's?
  
 EDIT: Oh sorry IIRC, your EL's were defective, so then how does it compare to your other best tubes?


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Congrats @JazzVinyl
> - looks like you are the first to experience the 6 6BL7 setup, as you were with so many others. That's a hard reputation to match
> 
> So I'm sure the next burning question would be - how does this setup compare to 4 / 6 EL3N's?
> ...




I will never go back to 6080/5998 or 6AS7G's again. This is WAY better.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Congrats on the next level! Sounds very exciting!
  
 What volume level do you need with 4 6BL7 compared to 6AS7/6080 tubes?
  
 IMHO it should be quite possible to make a single piece bridge style adapter across the Elise that plugs into the two sockets and has room for six octal sockets for the 6BL7 tubes on top. One of the bottom sockets should have the power leads to the external power supply.
  
 The total amps would be 9A. It seems to me that a 15A PS would be enough, even though I am told that on start-up the tubes draw more amps, maybe as much as three times more.
  
 All you have to do is to explain the concept to Mrs Xuling and measure the center points of the two bottom octal sockets.
  
 The question is: Will 6 tubes sound better than 4?
  
 Maybe there is a way to make the adapter so that you can run 2, 4 or six tubes. As an example, leaving the middle socket empty, it should be possible to plug in dual EL3N tubes for each channel.
  
 Meanwhile I bought several 6BL7 tubes to be ready - did not break the bank since these are easy to find and cheap and plentiful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mrs Xuling is on New Years' holiday until Feb 15th, she just told me.

Surprisingly the gain from 2x 6BL7's did not improve much over running 1x. But, the sound advantage definitely doubled.
i am getting a heck of a lot more detail in mids and highs and a deep DEEP bass that is superb.

I am running 1:30 or 2 pm on the Sennheisers, which are 300 ohm. They don't have the guts to run the Beyers, but super happy with what they do for Sennheisers, never heard them sound anywhere near this good. 

Also works fine as preamp, sound advantage clearly heard there as well.

Have not tried any other drivers but for sure the Ken Rad 6SN7GT's and 2x 6BL7's are a winning combination in every way, sound quality, sound stage and holographic presentation that is "just right". Beam me up, Scotty, in the soul transportation department. 

I am really surprised, Mordy. I didn't get much satisfaction out of 1x 6BL7, but 2x is a game changer. 

Will 3x would bring another leap?

Agree about the bridge style 3x and external heat. i am game for explaining all to Mrs Xuling. Do you have the measuring tool to measure center points for the socket centers?

This is a big clarity jump, for Elise. Huge veil lifted. 




.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I waited 3 months to get it, now I need to listen to it some! 
  
 I'm going through my music and enjoying things thoroughly.
  
 I'm missing some low frequency feel on my HD650's.  I'll see how the tubes affect that when I start swapping.  
  
 The vocals are divine.  
  
 The smoothness, or maybe utter lack of harshness is so satisfying.
  
 I haven't got into my classical collection yet.
  
 It's only been on for maybe 10 hours, so there's burn-in to occur yet.  I wouldn't want to make a review until I'm through the burn-in phase.
  
  
 Gumby->Elise->HD650


----------



## PerfectAnalog

jazzvinyl said:


> I am running 1:30 or 2 pm on the Sennheisers, which are 300 ohm. They don't have the guts to run the Beyers, but super happy with what they do for Sennheisers, never heard them sound anywhere near this good.


 
  
 Wow.  On my HD-650's with my Sylvania 6SN7GTA/Default Power tubes I can't really go past 11 before its too loud.
  
 I don't hear any background hiss until around 2:30, and even then its a quiet hiss, not a hum.   I don't get a hum until around 5, which has to be dangerously loud.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I moved the power switch on my Elise to the right of it (you can see the blue switch in one of my pictures).
 I did this to control both the 12v for the FDD20's and the Elise with one button (yeah, I know).
  
 I assure you though, it is very satisfying to click


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I don't know if there is an LED discussion going on or not anymore, though I'll weigh in and say that I like the blue LED very much.  It is not too bright.  Just right.


----------



## JazzVinyl

perfectanalog said:


> Wow.  On my HD-650's with my Sylvania 6SN7GTA/Default Power tubes I can't really go past 11 before its too loud.
> 
> I don't hear any background hiss until around 2:30, and even then its a quiet hiss, not a hum.   I don't get a hum until around 5, which has to be dangerously loud.




It's great you got your Elise!! i also waited three months!

I run a Sony DAP via Line Out Dock, so my input is at a lower level than most folks, that is why I have to turn mine up more.

The bass will come as the tubes burn in.

Best to plan on better powers than the stock Russian ones.

You already have FDD20, your good there, they too, will sweeten with some burn time. 

Enjoy!!!!!!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Mrs Xuling is on New Years' holiday until Feb 15th, she just told me.
> 
> Surprisingly the gain from 2x 6BL7's did not improve much over running 1x. But, the sound advantage definitely doubled.
> i am getting a heck of a lot more detail in mids and highs and a deep DEEP bass that is superb.
> ...


 
  
 Well done JV...yet another option for people. Glad you're happy with it....Mrs X has come up trumps again (so long as you're prepared to go the external heater PS route).
  
 Shame it looks like it's not for Beyer owners though....I for one don't have the slightest hint of 'veil' with my T1s - the opposite in fact! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## hpamdr

perfectanalog said:


> I waited 3 months to get it, now I need to listen to it some!
> 
> I'm going through my music and enjoying things thoroughly.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrat.. Take your time to listen, burn and enjoy.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  do turn the pot to insane level.....


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Well done JV...yet another option for people. Glad you're happy with it....Mrs X has come up trumps again (so long as you're prepared to go the external heater PS route).
> 
> Shame it looks like it's not for Beyer owners though....I for one don't have the slightest hint of 'veil' with my T1s - the opposite in fact!  ....HAPPY LISTENING!



I'd think the high sensitivity of our T1 + more amplified signal (compared to JV) when fed to Elise, should be enough to let us run 2x or 3x 6BL7.


----------



## pctazhp

supersonic395 said:


> Really good to read your impressions.
> 
> Did you get the stock Elise and what does your T1.2 sound like with the Elise now?


 
 I bought the Elise with stock tubes, but by the time it arrived I had already accumulated a fairly crazy number of different tubes. Now I primarily use EL3Ns as drivers and TS6520s (pretty difficult to locate) as power tubes. I'm going to be following UT's lead and try quad EL3Ns as power tubes.
  
 The T1s sound great. They should. They are Beyer's TOTL. Very neutral and uncolored. They are both accurate and musical. Seems to be, as others have said, a perfect match with the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

perfectanalog said:


> Wow.  On my HD-650's with my Sylvania 6SN7GTA/Default Power tubes I can't really go past 11 before its too loud.
> 
> I don't hear any background hiss until around 2:30, and even then its a quiet hiss, not a hum.   I don't get a hum until around 5, which has to be dangerously loud.


 

 Excellent. Enjoy PA. You've waited a long time but it's worth it. Should sound good with HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I bought the Elise with stock tubes, but by the time it arrived I had already accumulated a fairly crazy number of different tubes. Now I primarily use EL3Ns as drivers and TS6520s (pretty difficult to locate) as power tubes. *I'm going to be following UT's lead and try quad EL3Ns as power tubes.*
> 
> The T1s sound great. They should. They are Beyer's TOTL. Very neutral and uncolored. They are both accurate and musical. Seems to be, as others have said, a perfect match with the Elise.


 
 Got to smile at that. I believe you'll love it P. After all you did love it with EL3N and 5998 or 6BL7. TJ is enjoying running with 4 EL3N.
  
 So you're keeping the T1? I think you should. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 If you love the TS6520, I'm willing to let mine go. I'll selling some tubes to get a pair of GEC 6AS7G ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Multi 6BL7's:
600 ohm cans not a problem for DAC users, my love of line level is unique here.
I have stand alone DAC's, when I use them, the volume level comes down, considerably.

Fortunately, multi 6BL7 are an inexpensive experiment, and certainly worth a try. 

Each to their own, happy "tube summit".


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I'd think the high sensitivity of our T1 + more amplified signal (compared to JV) when fed to Elise, should be enough to let us run 2x or 3x 6BL7.


 
  
 Sounds possible then, Suuup...we need someone with the T1s to give it a go - then we can cover all angles, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I myself can't be bothered with external heater PSs any more, I'm afraid...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 (So many choices now!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







..._too many??!!_...).


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Sounds possible then, Suuup...we need someone with the T1s to give it a go - then we can cover all angles, lol!  ...(I myself can't be bothered with external heater PSs any more, I'm afraid... ).
> 
> (So many choices now!! :wink_face:  ..._too many??!!_...).



I'll await impressions on 3x 6BL7, and if they're even better, I will probably take the plunge.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I'll await impressions on 3x 6BL7, and if they're even better, I will probably take the plunge.








You'll need a spacesuit, too 


"Houston, we have a problem...we have left Earth's orbit..."





.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Got to smile at that. I believe you'll love it P. After all you did love it with EL3N and 5998 or 6BL7. TJ is enjoying running with 4 EL3N.
> 
> So you're keeping the T1? I think you should.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah. I'll be keeping the T1. I still think the HD700s are good, but the T1s have spoiled me.
  
 PM me in a few days if no one else has taken you up on the 6520s. They are great tubes and I highly recommend them to anyone with the Elise and T1s. I'm just a little overwhelmed and burned out right now with all the various tubes I have amassed - not to mention the new T1.
  
 Looks like it will be a while before I try the 6 X EL3N combination, as apparently Mrs. Xuling is on vacation until Feb 15.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


>


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> .


 
  
 Well guys...goodness knows what poor Lukasz and Henryk make of all this, lol...doubt they've any hair left, after all the scratching!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
 But I do believe they've been secretly impressed by our pioneering - especially as we haven't blown up any of their creations..._yet_, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 On their behalf however, I must repeat the warning to anyone using the double 6BL7 set-up..._*DO NOT USE ANY DRIVERS OVER ABOUT .3A HEATERS*_ _*STRAIGHT INTO ELISE!!*_ (Must have separate adapters that have the amp's heater supply disconnected)....HAPPY (SAFE) LISTENING...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Sounds possible then, Suuup...we need someone with the T1s to give it a go - then we can cover all angles, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 When I order my dual adapters for the EL3Ns, I may also order dual adapters for the 4 6BL7s I have. Although I will have to also order power adapters to go under the EL3Ns/adapters, and like you I'm trying to avoid external power.
  
 And as far as 2X3 6BL7s, I assume it will be a while, if ever, for Mrs. Xuling to invent the appropriate adapter. And I'm not sure anyone has figured out the amp requirement (including peak level at turn on). So that seems very much a work in progress as of now.
  
 As far as the GEC 6AS7Gs, I would love someday to try them. But as far as I can tell, they are nowhere on ebay to be found, and I suspect if any become available the price will be prohibitive.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> When I order my dual adapters for the EL3Ns, I may also order dual adapters for the 4 6BL7s I have. Although I will have to also order power adapters to go under the EL3Ns/adapters, and like you I'm trying to avoid external power.
> 
> And as far as 2X3 6BL7s, I assume it will be a while, if ever, for Mrs. Xuling to invent the appropriate adapter. And I'm not sure anyone has figured out the amp requirement (including peak level at turn on). So that seems very much a work in progress as of now.
> 
> As far as the GEC 6AS7Gs, I would love someday to try them. But as far as I can tell, they are nowhere on ebay to be found, and I suspect if any become available the price will be prohibitive.




It would be fascinating for a GEC 6AS7G owner to compare against 2 (or future) 3x 6BL7's in this amp.

It appears I tripped upon a sweet spot pairing the 2x 6BL7's with the Ken Rad 6SN7GT. Some other 6SN7's good, but not quite as nice as the Ken Rads. My pair cost me less than $30.00 by being patient. Lots of $80.00 pairs, but keep an eye out and you can get them for much less. Black glass ones go for more but (owners of both) say all sound the same, black glass and clear glass. 

I was totally "against" external heat, at one time, too 

But, here we are. 

Good luck, in resisting


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I'm not sure I follow the HOW more tubes makes it better. 

Is it about hitting a different spot on the curve for these tubes? Finding a more linear section?

I am firmly resisting going quad driver or more. Not because I don't believe, more because it gets expensive really quickly. 

I'm all for the engineering behind it. Those adapters look so well done. I'm soldering up my marshmallows this weekend.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> It would be fascinating for a GEC 6AS7G owner to compare against 2 (or future) 3x 6BL7's in this amp.
> 
> It appears I tripped upon a sweet spot pairing the 2x 6BL7's with the Ken Rad 6SN7GT. Some other 6SN7's good, but not quite as nice as the Ken Rads. My pair cost me less than $30.00 by being patient. Lots of $80.00 pairs, but keep an eye out and you can get them for much less. Black glass ones go for more but (owners of both) say all sound the same, black glass and clear glass.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried 2x 6BL7 with 6N7G as drivers?


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> It would be fascinating for a GEC 6AS7G owner to compare against 2 (or future) 3x 6BL7's in this amp.
> 
> It appears I tripped upon a sweet spot pairing the 2x 6BL7's with the Ken Rad 6SN7GT. Some other 6SN7's good, but not quite as nice as the Ken Rads. My pair cost me less than $30.00 by being patient. Lots of $80.00 pairs, but keep an eye out and you can get them for much less. Black glass ones go for more but (owners of both) say all sound the same, black glass and clear glass.
> 
> ...


 
 Probably going to take those with deeper pocketbooks and greater passion for tube rolling than I have to pioneer with your interesting suggestion.
  
 Congratulations on hitting on a winning combination. Unfortunately, it seems the Ken Rad 62N7GTs are getting difficult to find in pairs and the price is certainly pretty far north of $30 a pair now. Unlike you I've had pretty good luck with the 6SN7s as drivers.
  
 Single 6BL7s don't seem to have a problem driving my T1s, but I still have the same reaction as I first did on the Lionel Richie-Shania Twain recording. There's just not as much bass energy as with the HD700s and the emotional draw of that recording disappears with the T1s. BUT driving the T1s with the 6520s, that recording and just about every other recording sounds better on the T1s than on the HD700s.
  
 For now I'm on hold until Mrs. Xuling returns from vacation. When she gets back I'll decide what my next move is.
  
 Thanks for again reminding us of the need for external power to the drivers if we try quad 6BL7s power tubes. That could be easy to overlook.
  
 Happy listening


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Well guys...goodness knows what poor Lukasz and Henryk make of all this, lol...doubt they've any hair left, after all the scratching!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 About the maximum current. What was the maximum allowed? ECC31 is 1A and 6AS7G is 2.5A. That means it's 7 amps in total, and we've had no problems with this combo. It would appear, to me anyway, that 0.5 A drivers are okay for 4x 6BL7 (and to be honest, I'd think we could push it a bit more as well. This needs testing though). 
  
  
  
 And another thing. I've been confused a few times when talking about the 6BL7, about the amount of 6BL7's. Sometimes people use 2x 6BL7 for 4x, since it's 2 pr power slot (I am guilty in this myself). *I propose we always use the total amount of 6BL7's*, so we have 2x, 4x, or 6x. This would avoid any confusion.


----------



## mordy

Hi Suuup,
  
 This how I understand it:
  
 Power tubes max 2 x 2.5A = 5A.
  
 Driver tubes max 2 x 1A = 2A.
  
 Total amps for Elise = 7A.
  
 Any combination that exceeds 7A needs external power. 4 x 1.5A (6BL7) = 6A. Using two ECC31 at 1A amp necessitates external power for the drivers since the total is 8A. On the other hand, there may be reserve capacity built in, but how much of a margin there is I do not know.
  
 Running 6 x EL3N (0.9A) = 5.4A  does not need external power.


----------



## Suuup

I had to run some errands in the city today, but just before I left home, I got an idea. How about using EL6 as powers and ECC31 as drivers? I had to try. I swapped out my 6N7G drivers and plopped in the ECC31. The result is very pleasant. I only got to listen to one song, so I didn't get a lot of time with it. I got home about 30 minutes ago, and I've been listening to it since. It's actually really good. It's a special kind of sound. Very laid back and deep. It's not muddy, but it certainly isn't detailed either. I can see myself swapping to this combo when the mood hits. 
  
 Now that I think about it, I like / don't like the EL6, depending on my mood. This is a top of the line all round tube, like I imagine the GEC 6AS7G must be. It's more niche and good for a few things. I don't think I'd recommend a lot of people buying this tube, as I could imagine a lot of people would be disappointed, if they were looking for a good all round tube. This isn't it. I still very much like it, for a few roles. 
  
 In that way, it's kind of like my Mullard 6080. I very much like the tube, and I'd be more inclined to recommend this tube than EL6, but it still only fills some niche roles for me. 
  
 This is the play time distribution I imagine:
 5998: 75% of the time.
 6080: 15% of the time.
 EL6: 10% of the time. 
  
 This is not a ranking list. It's a list about how much playtime each tube will get. I like all of them in different ways. 
  
 Edit: One more thing. I have to turn up the volume A LOT with EL6. When I'm on Ubuntu I have to turn it up almost all the way on Elise, and full power from my computer. On Windows it's not as bad. Not sure why there's a difference though. It's the same with EL3N.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi Suuup,
> 
> This how I understand it:
> 
> ...


 
 Yes exactly. My comment was about @hypnos1 saying 0.3A max for drivers, which made me scratch my head. Wouldn't it be 0.5A? I'll try going a bit over the limit and report back my results.


----------



## mordy

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----------



## Suuup

Okay, I just tried running 2x 5998 as powers and 2x EL6 as drivers. 5998 draws 2.4A and EL6 draws 1.3A. Total should be 7.4A, i.e. 0.4A over the limit. I left them to warm up for about 25-30 seconds. Both 5998 lighted up, but I couldn't see any light in the EL6. They're slow to heat up though. I tried dialing up the volume knob. Aaaandd......
  
  
 Only sound on the left channel. Right was silent. I only listened for 10 seconds before I turned Elise off again. Hmm. I'll probably try again later, when I can muster enough courage to torture my Elise a bit more. Maybe if I leave it for longer and let the tubes heat up properly? It's possible it's just the power surge draining all the power. Leaving it on longer to let the tubes heat up properly might alleviate the problem, or maybe remove it entirely. 
  
  
 I plopped back in my ECC31. There is still lovely sound, so it seems Elise survived my torture unscathed.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Yes exactly. My comment was about @hypnos1 saying 0.3A max for drivers, which made me scratch my head. Wouldn't it be 0.5A? I'll try going a bit over the limit and report back my results.


 

 Lukasz reply (as well as to H1 and Mordy) to me on safe current draw for Elise is between 6 to 6.5A. This is in total. As H1 pointed out in a previous post, it's the total of driver and power tubes draw. One could argue that that is too limiting as the stock 6SN7 and 6AS7 would have already consumed 6.2A in total but it's best to err on the side of caution in not over heating the amp.
  
 Having spend quite some time with six EL3N, I tried Fivre 6SN7G brown base with 5998 yesterday and was shocked at how hot Elise felt after just 2 hours of operation. With six EL3N, I've gone on a 8 hours stretch and Elise still feels cool.


----------



## pctazhp

Does it get any better than this?????


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Yes exactly. My comment was about @hypnos1 saying 0.3A max for drivers, which made me scratch my head. Wouldn't it be 0.5A? I'll try going a bit over the limit and report back my results.


 
  
 Hi Suuup....was trying to stay within the safety margins as per the Feliks guys' recommendations - ie. 10% over the stock figure of 6.2A. We have indeed used ECC31s, giving a total of 7A and with apparently no ill effects. But the amp's case and transformer were significantly hotter, especially compared to the amazing coolness with EL3Ns in place.
  
 For me, those higher temperatures signify a shorter component life - but  could be wrong, lol! Whatever, I personally would not want to keep my Elise running at such higher temps for (hopefully!) years of regular use...hence my cautionary recommendation...
  
 One can go "over the limits" for quite a long time before any real hint of damage becomes apparent, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 And so - as usual - the caveat must be..._*AT YOUR OWN RISK!!*_


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Yeah. I'll be keeping the T1. I still think the HD700s are good, but the T1s have spoiled me.
> 
> PM me in a few days if no one else has taken you up on the 6520s. They are great tubes and I highly recommend them to anyone with the Elise and T1s. I'm just a little overwhelmed and burned out right now with all the various tubes I have amassed - not to mention the new T1.
> 
> Looks like it will be a while before I try the 6 X EL3N combination, as apparently Mrs. Xuling is on vacation until Feb 15.


 

 Hi P, since you've already ordered the dual EL3N adapters, let's wait for you to try that. You might end up liking that over the 6520 and therefore I don't want to sell you anything in advance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is the annual long vacation for Mrs Xuling as she celebrate chinese new year back in her home town.
  
 ps.. glad you bought the T1.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Lukasz reply (as well as to H1 and Mordy) to me on safe current draw for Elise is between 6 to 6.5A. This is in total. As H1 pointed out in a previous post, it's the total of driver and power tubes draw. One could argue that that is too limiting as the stock 6SN7 and 6AS7 would have already consumed 6.2A in total but it's best to err on the side of caution in not over heating the amp.
> 
> Having spend quite some time with six EL3N, I tried Fivre 6SN7G brown base with 5998 yesterday and was shocked at how hot Elise felt after just 2 hours of operation. With six EL3N, I've gone on a 8 hours stretch and Elise still feels cool.


 
 Certainly, but we've had no troubles with 7A current draw. @hypnos1 is running his GEC 6AS7G with his EL3N, which is a total of 6.8A current draw. Most of us ran 5998 + ECC31, and still no problems. 
  
 I would love to get some temperature readings, if any of you have an infrared thermometer. It seems 6080 heats the case a lot more than, say, 5998, even though the current draw is only 0.1A in difference. 
  
  
 I agree, more heat equals more wear on the amp. I don't think the temperatures we're getting right now are high enough to cause any real wear on the amp however. I don't know what the temperature is within the transformer though. It could be that the temperature is a lot higher than on the deck of Elise / top of the transformer case. I wouldn't worry too much about temperature until it reached somewhere around >75C degrees. I don't know the internal temperature though. It could be we're already hovering around this.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Certainly, but we've had no troubles with 7A current draw. *@hypnos1 is running his GEC 6AS7G with his EL3N, which is a total of 6.8A current draw*. Most of us ran 5998 + ECC31, and still no problems.
> 
> I would love to get some temperature readings, if any of you have an infrared thermometer. It seems 6080 heats the case a lot more than, say, 5998, even though the current draw is only 0.1A in difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo S...and this is what's really weird - even at that figure, my amp is running*  MUCH* cooler...???? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

I was using 7N7 with Chatham 6AS7G last night and Elise felt cool. 7N7 current draw is 0.6A, similar with earlier versions of 6SN7. So the total there is 6.2A.
  
 You're right about 6080 being a lot hotter in operation. After an hour of operation with a pair of 6080, Elise feels HOT. Which is the reason I don't use the 6080 often. I'm sure it will be fine in Elise as it's listed as an alternative power tube in the manual but I prefer a cooler running amp. Otherwise use a fan.
  
 I've been running with 6N7G, 6A6 and ECC31 with 6AS7G and 5998 for a while in the first 2 months with Elise. I think I spend more time on 2 FDD20 and 5998. FDD20 are externally heated and therefore pose no problem with heat.
  
 It's summer here and all I want is some snow from Elise and not more heat.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Does it get any better than this?????


 
 Thanks for the video. Never seen this before.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Lukasz needs to find more crew to churn these out faster. He's accidentally stumbled upon an adventurous customer base.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Have you tried 2x 6BL7 with 6N7G as drivers?




Have not tried 6N7G yet. Did try ECC31 and thought the cans were overly swamped with bass. 



.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Yo S...and this is what's really weird - even at that figure, my amp is running*  MUCH* cooler...????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I noticed this as well. It boggles my mind really. I have on theory: The EL3N uses a large adapter out of mostly plastic. Plastic is bad at conducting heat. Also, the heating happens in the tube. Since the tube is lifted from the deck of Elise, it shouldn't heat up the case as much. 
  
 When looking inside the tubes, the heater on the 6080 is placed much lower than the heater on 5998. Also, the 6080 has a metal base, whereas the 5998 has a plastic base. Could this also result in a lower temperature?


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Yes, I noticed this as well. It boggles my mind really. I have on theory: *The EL3N uses a large adapter out of mostly* *plastic*. Plastic is bad at conducting heat. Also, the heating happens in the tube. Since the tube is lifted from the deck of Elise, it shouldn't heat up the case as much.
> 
> When looking inside the tubes, the heater on the 6080 is placed much lower than the heater on 5998. Also, the 6080 has a metal base, whereas the 5998 has a plastic base. Could this also result in a lower temperature?


 
  
 Nope! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...when I adapt my tubes, they end up the same as basically a normal octal base - no marshmallows here, lol!


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Nope!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah yes, that's true. Now I am completely dumbfounded. Maybe Lukasz could shed some light?


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Ah yes, that's true. Now I am completely dumbfounded. Maybe Lukasz could shed some light?


 
  
 Give the poor fellow a break, S....he can't keep up with the orders, let alone our emails LOL!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Give the poor fellow a break, S....he can't keep up with the orders, let alone our emails LOL!!


 

 LOL indeed. It's amazing how patient he is and I can feel his vibe. He's happy. My last 2 questions to him were about using 6xEL3N and 4x6BL7 and 2xEL3N. I was surprised to even get an answer. Not only that, he consulted señor Feliks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Really nice chappie.


----------



## UntilThen

Where's my friend with gadgets @B-60 ?
  
 How's this? Think I will go for a desktop T1 haha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Elise preamp to this.
  
 Bose Computer MusicMonitor.


----------



## JazzVinyl

perfectanalog said:


> I'm not sure I follow the HOW more tubes makes it better.
> 
> Is it about hitting a different spot on the curve for these tubes? Finding a more linear section?
> 
> ...




The gain using 2x 6BL7 per side, did increase some, but no where near "doubled". However the sound signature "thickness" did double. In other words, how much influence the 6BL7 has over the sound, does double, if that makes sense. 

I am not certain of the science behind what it does, just know the "clarity" up and down the frequency range compared to "nomal" power tubes, was very noticable.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Give the poor fellow a break, S....he can't keep up with the orders, let alone our emails LOL!!


 
 Oh, I didn't realize people were sending him a ton of messages. I myself haven't same him any in months.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The VIsseaux 6N7G do pair well with 2x 6BL7's (per side).


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> With 4 for outputs you will have more drive not volume the outputs are hooked up as a cathode follower with no gain.
> You will be able to drive more headphones and still draw less current off the transformer then 2 6AS7 types


 

 This is from Glenn a few weeks ago regarding using 4xEL3N as power tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Yes, I noticed this as well. It boggles my mind really. I have on theory: The EL3N uses a large adapter out of mostly plastic. Plastic is bad at conducting heat. Also, the heating happens in the tube. Since the tube is lifted from the deck of Elise, it shouldn't heat up the case as much.
> 
> When looking inside the tubes, the heater on the 6080 is placed much lower than the heater on 5998. Also, the 6080 has a metal base, whereas the 5998 has a plastic base. Could this also result in a lower temperature?




Yes, when I primarily ran 6080 the whole amp felt really hot. The metal bases of the 6080 super hot, long cool down times. 

5998 seemed cooler to amp deck, elevated as it was off the deck. 

Think all you say here is spot on, Suuup....




.


----------



## JazzVinyl

FDD20 does not favor the quad 6BL7 powers and have the least gain of all tubes tried (yes I remembered to up the voltage to 12.6). 

This is very strange. It appears all of the ST bottle tubes are not too thrilled with this quad of 6BL7's as powers. They don't sound BAD but they don't jump to attention and sing like 6sn7 and 7n7 does.

Have the Tung Sol 7N7's in now and it's fantastically full of dimension and clarity. 

((( 7N7's are a great alternative to the more expensive 6SN7's... )))

So, it sounds like non ST bottles all the way around, if you go quad 6BL7....

Also, I hot glued my loose goose adapter, and it's fine, won't bother Mrs Xuling to replace it. 

Cheers to you "big fat round tone" chasers....


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> FDD20 does not favor the quad 6BL7 powers and have the least gain of all tubes tried (yes I remembered to up the voltage to 12.6).
> 
> This is very strange. It appears all of the ST bottle tubes are not too thrilled with this quad of 6BL7's as powers. They don't sound BAD but they don't jump to attention and sing like 6sn7 and 7n7 does.
> 
> ...



Didn't you say it worked well with 6N7G?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Didn't you say it worked well with 6N7G?




The original Joybringers were always a tad bass shy. And yes, worked with those. But it does not sound as good as non ST botlle (6SN7 and 7N7) drivers. The Quad makes the non ST bottle drivers sound like they are "expensive, exotic" tubes.

I say it like it is, and this is, how it is.

The Tung Sol 7N7's sound full and rich, as though they are expensive tubes, using the Quad:





If you were starting over with Elise, and were budget minded. The Ken Rad 6SN7GT or a 7N7, plus the Quad 6BL7 as powers and you would have a top-flite sounding amp, for very reasonable cost.





.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Very interesting to hear about your findings. What do you think about a 6-pack of BL tubes?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Very interesting to hear about your findings. What do you think about a 6-pack of BL tubes?




Yeah, Hi Mordy!

I don't know man! It sounds so good now that I just can't get over it. 

Not sure you need 3x...!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGTQaWLSH8g[/VIDEO]


----------



## pctazhp

@JazzVinyl:  If your Elise is sounding half as exciting as it now looks, you certainly have a winning combination


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> @JazzVinyl:  If your Elise is sounding half as exciting as it now looks, you certainly have a winning combination




I am amazed. Never thought I would have zero ST (coke bottle shaped) tubes aboard and get this kind of sound accuracy,

Kind of wish I still had the LD MK IV, to see what a set up like this would have done for it's "non ST shaped" drivers...


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I just noticed that my Elise doesn't have a white line on the volume knob.

I like the change.


----------



## JazzVinyl

perfectanalog said:


> I just noticed that my Elise doesn't have a white line on the volume knob.
> 
> I like the change.




Used vehicle pinstripe...

Have enough left for another 70,000 or so amps.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Where's my friend with gadgets @B-60 ?
> 
> How's this? Think I will go for a desktop T1 haha.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi @UntilThen ,
 I am still waiting for the amp, I hope not that much longer for me,
 I will email Lukasz on Monday and see what spot I am in.
 Stay away from BOSE of any thing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




just saying!
 How about some old school time , lets go back to 1986 and record some CD's to this:

 Party time!!!!
 This may the only cure for "hot on the top" HD800...


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi @UntilThen ,
> I am still waiting for the amp, I hope not that much longer for me,
> I will email Lukasz on Monday and see what spot I am in.
> Stay away from BOSE of any thing.
> ...


 

 When it's a gift I won't say no.  So I have 3 choices. Bose Computer MusicMonitor, Companion 5 or 20. 
  
 That's some old school Betamax and Duran Duran 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1986? Been a while.


----------



## B-60

Is that the only choice???
 Take a look at Audio engine A2
 http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Powered-Speaker-Systems/A2-plus-B-Powered-Desktop-Speakers
 I had lots of computer speakers before and still have my A2's original for more then 8 years.
 They are very good for computer,
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Unfortunately Bose is all that I can get for free. I'll get it and trade it for your AudioEngine A2.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Time for sleeping...


----------



## Suuup

How much did all of you pay for your Philips Miniwatt FDD20? I just bought a pair for 12€.


----------



## pctazhp

Earlier today I was responding to a PM from someone in the HD700 thread asking me to describe the differences I heard between my HD598s and HD700s. In responding to him I realized that the words I was choosing imparted more of a difference than I think actually exist. Before I acquired my 700s, I was very happy with the 598s. They were my first “audiophile-type” headphones I had owned in decades. I “upgraded” to the 700s primarily due to the price drop on those cans. The 700s have brought me a lot of musical pleasure. They probably would still be in service if I hadn’t stumbled on to this thread, eventually ordered my Elise and heard generally consistent praise of the T1s.
  
 Right now I’m listening to the London Philharmonic Orchestra play Neil Diamond music. It’s a beautiful recording. And I am tempted to pay attention to the warm, impactful sound of the tympani, the beautiful positioning and sparkle of the strings and the haunting sound of the horns. But when I do, I’m in my left brain and not really “enjoying” the music. For me, it is the emotional connection with music that is the end goad.
  
 Several of us here use the T1s primarily with our Elises, and that gives us a common frame of reference to evaluate what each reports on various tube combinations. But we also have our differences – different DACs, different hearing abilities, different styles of writing, etc. I think for me what I find most helpful here is when I see someone consistently returning to or remaining with the same combination of tubes. That tells me that person has found a particular combination that consistently brings him pleasure.
  
 Of course, I enjoy immensely those who are truly pioneering, enthusiastic tube rollers. They have gotten us to where we are today. But if someone told me I would have to live with the exact combination I am listening to right now (Bimby DAC, Elise with EL3N/Parts Express 6AS7GAs into T1s Gen 2, I would feel I had years of amazing musical enjoyment awaiting me – God willing ))))


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> How much did all of you pay for your Philips Miniwatt FDD20? I just bought a pair for 12€.


 
 Mine was $88 for the pair. You got an amazing deal )))


----------



## PerfectAnalog

b-60 said:


> Hi @UntilThen
> 
> Stay away from BOSE of any thing.h34r: just saying!




The Bose QC20 are amazing and in my opinion required gear for all plane flights.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> How much did all of you pay for your Philips Miniwatt FDD20? I just bought a pair for 12€.




Paid USD $24.00 + $12.00 in shipping for the RVC branded ones! So your deal is fantastic, Suuup!

The FDD20/5998 is one of the 'premier combinations' for Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

perfectanalog said:


> The Bose QC20 are amazing and in my opinion required gear for all plane flights.




I see the "over the ear" Bose noise cancelling headphones, very often, on flights.


----------



## connieflyer

perfectanalog said:


> The Bose QC20 are amazing and in my opinion required gear for all plane flights.


 

 I don't know about that, tried the BOse fo flights, and no matter how fast I ran down the runway, never could get airborne, should try again after I lose some weight!


----------



## PerfectAnalog

connieflyer said:


> I don't know about that, tried the BOse fo flights, and no matter how fast I ran down the runway, never could get airborne, should try again after I lose some weight!




Necessary, though not sufficient.


----------



## connieflyer

Maybe after I have the other knee replaced....


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Earlier today I was responding to a PM from someone in the HD700 thread asking me to describe the differences I heard between my HD598s and HD700s. In responding to him I realized that the words I was choosing imparted more of a difference than I think actually exist. Before I acquired my 700s, I was very happy with the 598s. They were my first “audiophile-type” headphones I had owned in decades. I “upgraded” to the 700s primarily due to the price drop on those cans. The 700s have brought me a lot of musical pleasure. They probably would still be in service if I hadn’t stumbled on to this thread, eventually ordered my Elise and heard generally consistent praise of the T1s.
> 
> Right now I’m listening to the London Philharmonic Orchestra play Neil Diamond music. It’s a beautiful recording. And I am tempted to pay attention to the warm, impactful sound of the tympani, the beautiful positioning and sparkle of the strings and the haunting sound of the horns. But when I do, I’m in my left brain and not really “enjoying” the music. For me, it is the emotional connection with music that is the end goad.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct...think you must have telepathic abilities, 'cos I've been toying with the idea of saying something along these lines for a while now - for I feel I'm at a point where I no longer fear cries of _heresy!_...
  
 I'd be the first to sing the virtues of extended trial and experimentation with as many different combinations of equipment as possible, but I feel it's only too easy to get somewhat carried away with it all, lol...(even though my several years of it is nothing to some in head-fi land!!).
  
 The more I dissect not only our own postings, but _many_ others on different threads/forums, the more I realise the extreme difficulty (some might say bordering on _futility!__)_ in actually being able to gain any really solid idea of which direction one should take - especially when it entails spending a good deal of hard-earned money, lol!... Even when allowing for differences due to individual _preference_, the sometimes vastly-ranging impressions given by listeners with very similar equipment _*must*_ support this proposition - and at the very least lead to confusion and doubt.
  
 This, of necessity, is pretty well inevitable...and some would argue is all part of the fun and journey. I would now, however, veer more in the direction you yourself allude to - ie. go far enough along the road journey to have a reasonably good idea of what constitutes good quality sound reproduction; decide on the combination of gear that provides _one's own preferred_ sound at a 'comfortable' price level, and _*stick with it!!*_...regardless of what others may say, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...then, I believe, _true_ audio nirvana can be achieved...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but this, of course, is just _my_ take on things!...CHEERS!!


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Anyone know how to calculate the power output of the Elise at 300 ohms?

The spec page only says 200mw, but doesn't give 200mw into what.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I don't know about that, tried the BOse fo flights, and no matter how fast I ran down the runway, never could get airborne, should try again after I lose some weight!


 

 This makes me laugh so hard at 5:30am.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Earlier today I was responding to a PM from someone in the HD700 thread asking me to describe the differences I heard between my HD598s and HD700s. In responding to him I realized that the words I was choosing imparted more of a difference than I think actually exist. Before I acquired my 700s, I was very happy with the 598s. They were my first “audiophile-type” headphones I had owned in decades. I “upgraded” to the 700s primarily due to the price drop on those cans. The 700s have brought me a lot of musical pleasure. They probably would still be in service if I hadn’t stumbled on to this thread, eventually ordered my Elise and heard generally consistent praise of the T1s.
> 
> Right now I’m listening to the London Philharmonic Orchestra play Neil Diamond music. It’s a beautiful recording. And I am tempted to pay attention to the warm, impactful sound of the tympani, the beautiful positioning and sparkle of the strings and the haunting sound of the horns. But when I do, I’m in my left brain and not really “enjoying” the music. For me, it is the emotional connection with music that is the end goad.
> 
> ...


 

 Well written P. I received my EL3N adapters on the 5th of Jan and T1 on the 7th of Jan. It's been a month now and I've not stop loving these. Even went with 6xEL3N and loving it every minute.
  
 We must realise that it's healthy for us to have differing taste in tubes. If we all have one common love, we will run the supply to the ground in no time.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I don't know about that, tried the BOse fo flights, and no matter how fast I ran down the runway, never could get airborne, should try again after I lose some weight!


 
 Thanks. My best laugh of the week


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Well written P. I received my EL3N adapters on the 5th of Jan and T1 on the 7th of Jan. It's been a month now and I've not stop loving these. Even went with 6xEL3N and loving it every minute.
> 
> We must realise that it's healthy for us to have differing taste in tubes. If we all have one common love, we will run the supply to the ground in no time.


 
 Thanks UT
  
 I'll drink to differing tastes in tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

perfectanalog said:


> Anyone know how to calculate the power output of the Elise at 300 ohms?
> 
> The spec page only says 200mw, but doesn't give 200mw into what.




Yeah, I don't know. 

I thought it said 250mw, which is only 1/4 of one watt. Assume that measurement is using the default tubes, as well...


----------



## 2359glenn

perfectanalog said:


> Anyone know how to calculate the power output of the Elise at 300 ohms?
> 
> The spec page only says 200mw, but doesn't give 200mw into what.


 

 Hook it to a signal generator set at 1KHz sine wave hook output of amp to a 300ohm resistor
 measure the voltage across the resistor before clipping and do the math.
 Oh you will need a Oscope to see the wave before clipping.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am so taken with 6SN7 as driver, and multi 6BL7's as power tubes, that I think I will start some measurements and drawings for Mrs Xuling to use to make a 6x (total) 3x per side, 6BL7 adapter. 

Would want it to span both 6as7 sockets, use the brass octal plugs, no rotation option (this will make it more solid/rigid), bring one set of external heater wires out, at the rear of the circuit board, to supply all 6 of the 6BL7's. 

Funny, we said how easily the 6SN7's could be beaten, when we should have been wondering if the 6AS7G's could be out done.







Congrats to all who are already at their Tube Summit...happy for you!

Pardon our dust, as others continue the climb.

Cheers to all the LUCKY ones....



.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct...think you must have telepathic abilities, 'cos I've been toying with the idea of saying something along these lines for a while now - for I feel I'm at a point where I no longer fear cries of _heresy!_...
> 
> I'd be the first to sing the virtues of extended trial and experimentation with as many different combinations of equipment as possible, but I feel it's only too easy to get somewhat carried away with it all, lol...(even though my several years of it is nothing to some in head-fi land!!).
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe telepathy explains all of the strange voices I keep hearing in my mind )))
  
 I just hope people don't forget that if it weren't for you the Elise wouldn't even exist !!!
  
 I started down this path because you, UT and others convinced me that the Elise was the most promising path I could find (regardless of cost) to building a system that would allow me to enjoy reproduction of music at home the way I used to back in my audiophile (vinyl-2 channel speaker) days. My confidence in your was certainly well placed!!!
  
 My tube rolling days are not completely at an end - mainly because of what is already in the pipeline. Today my second set of EL3N marshmallows arrived from China and I'm now running an all EL3N (four) Elise. Major goosebumps ))) I'll be ordering the dual adapters as soon as Mrs Xuling returns from vacation and my third set of EL3Ns will be here this coming week.
  
 Hope you are having a nice weekend. You deserve it


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I started down this path because you, and others convinced me that the Elise was the most promising path I could find (regardless of cost) to building a system that would allow me to enjoy reproduction of music at home the way I used to back in my audiophile (vinyl-2 channel speaker) days.




Did thy retain thy table and vinyl, from said audiophile days?


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Did thy retain thy table and vinyl, from said audiophile days?


 
 I'm really pretty embarrassed to say that I did not. It was a pretty crazy time in my life and just about everything changed. But I can't change a single second of my past. That was then and now is now. All is good ))))


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I'm really pretty embarrassed to say that I did not. It was a pretty crazy time in my life and just about everything changed. But I can't change a single second of my past. That was then and now is now. All is good ))))




Hear ya. Most folks let ithem get away from them.

Speaking of those days, I remember when CD hit the marketplace, the local LP stores absolutely changed, overnight. 

One day, it was buy vinyl, the next day, it was buy CD's!! I was horrified. I could buy a great album on vinyl (at the end) for 5 bucks. Now, all they had were CD's for 19.95!! That was a meteoric price change for me, 

They all said "don't worry, in a year or two, CD's will be down to 5 bucks too". But that never happened.

Now, no one wants CD. They are dumping them big time. I bought three 300+ CD changers from a gal on Craigslist, for $70.00, all three were full of store bought CD's!! i offered to unload her CD's...nope, don't need those anymore, she said. 

All ripped MP3 to an iPod, I guess.

Amazing....

See Ya....


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 I have been tube rolling for some 6-7 years now. It started with the Little Dot MKIII. Over a period of several years we kept on trying one tube after another, one combination after another, constantly upgrading the sound.
  
 The end game was probably using the C3g as drivers and 2.5A 6AS7/6080 tubes as power tubes. At every level of discovery, I felt that this is it - i was perfectly satisfied with the sound (well - almost). But I was happy.
  
 Over time you got to know the sonic taste of the other members on the forum; if so and so said that this mod sounds better, you knew that you could rely on it.
  
 Then came the Elise. After a while of soul searching I decided to go for it. Got serial #9, and after hearing it for the first time I wrote: There is no going back - my MKIII has been collecting dust since then. It was so superior in sound.
  
 Now, through the combined efforts of all the members on this forum, we have elevated the Elise to higher, exalted levels.
  
 At this time my favorite tube combination is the EL3N as drivers and the 6BL7 as power tubes. If JV wouldn't have described the great SQ with double 6BL7s I would be perfectly happy with my current combination. Now I am awaiting the results of triple 6BL7s....
  
 Gentlemen: IMHO we have not reached the end game yet with the Elise. Nothing wrong in being perfectly satisfied with 6SN7GTA/6H13C, but we all know that there are better choices.
  
 As time marches on, there will be a consensus of which tubes/combinations sound the best - a small group of tubes with plenty of room for individual tastes.
  
 For me, part of the charm of getting there is the travel.
  
IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER?


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy. I don’t have an argument with anything you say. It’s your story and experience and I respect that. I’d just like to recap my own Elise experience to date.

 First, though, I want to say that I am aware that, as with many audio threads, there are some deeply felt disagreements among us as to what does and doesn’t work. I have no interest in getting involved in any debate. I have no vested interest in what anyone else finds to be the “best”. I’m just trying to learn, and contribute where I can.

 Before I got my Elise I was running a Little Dot MK IV SE (C3G drivers/stock power tubes) into my HD700s. Just dropping the Elise into the chain with its stock tubes was my first major Elise breakthrough. The next came when I started using the EL3Ns as drivers. Then came the 6BL7s as power tubes. Through my HD700s, the result was stunning.

 But then my new T1s arrived. The transition from HD700s to T1s was not entirely smooth. The 700s are good phones, but they are colored and have some irritating treble problems. But I had become addicted to their “sound”. However, after a few days with the T1s I found I just couldn’t go back to the HD700s. Unfortunately, the 6BL7s did not seem to mate very well with my new T1s.

 And now I am at my next “Elise breakthrough” -running an EL3N (four) only Elise. I won’t try to describe what I am hearing. I’m burned out trying to come up with words to describe my sonic experiences. For me one of the hardest and worst jobs I could have would be an audio reviewer. I consider Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound to be the greatest reviewer of all times. I doubt anyone will exceed or even equal him. 

 I will simply say I feel I am getting close to my end game. I will read with interest what you and others do. But I will also say that the idea of 6 power tubes astride the Elise is probably not going to be my cup of tea. My first ever tube amp was an Audio Research D250 MKII. As UT once pointed out to me, it had 32 tubes. And that didn’t even include the tubes in my Audio Research SP-11 pre-amp. There wasn’t much tube-rolling going on in those days! I think 6 tubes total may be my limit today. And I’m drawn by the fact that the Elise can be run with 6 EL3Ns without any external power.

 To each his own. Happy listening ))


----------



## JazzVinyl

I would point out that the 6BL7 is barely larger than a 6SN7, so while there would be six of them, they are just as cute as a button 

The largest inconvenience would be the absolute necisity to heat them externally, with a beefy power supply.


----------



## DecentLevi

A fellow mon ami (compadre') @connieflyer recently expressed interest in the Elise as a next amp, and wanted to know how it stacks up against the Elekit TU-8200 amp. Unfortunately I've yet to try either of these amps, and from a crude comparison between the specs of these two, here's what I generally gather: The Elekit is heavier / takes up more desk space, is $100 more, but has the option to also drive speakers, yet at only around 8 watts per speaker. The Elise on the other hand, has sparked much more excitement on Head-Fi than the Elekit (*27* vs. 735 pages from both threads), even though it's newer than Elekit. 
  
 You can also compare specs here:
 https://tubedepot.com/products/elekit-tu-8200-stereo-tube-amplifier-kit
 http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en
  
 Here are more official reviews of the Elise:
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise
  
AND NOW I'M PLEASED TO PRESENT YOU SOME OF MY HIGHLIGHTS FROM THIS THREAD! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
post #2591   11/21/15


untilthen said:


> If you know what the interior of the most famous theatres in the world look like, perhaps you can close your eyes whilst listening to your headphones with Elise and be transported there for a live performance. So starting one everyday, I shall showcase these amazing sound auditoriums and amphitheatres. Remember only Elise can recreate this experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
post #5078  12/30/15


citizenlin said:


> Big , Bigger than Big    3D, holographic
> 
> Leonard Cohen, My secret life track,
> Backup singers are more vivid holographic and huge and controlled bass compare to Fdd20s.
> ...


 

  
post #6004 of 7598 4 weeks ago
  


untilthen said:


> *EL3N and 5998   15/10*
> 
> Alright folks this is it. This is the benchmark of all benchmarks. This is the culmination of a year's worth of tube rolling on Elise. Blame @Lord Raven  for sleeping 6 months without upgrading his tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
post #6225  3 weeks, 3 days ago
  


lord raven said:


> Right now listening to Miles Davis, this is my favorite album of his, 2nd time playing today at 24/192.
> 
> Same setup but different power tubes, Geek>Elise>EL3N>Chatham 6AS7G
> 
> ...


 
  
post #6643   2 weeks, 6 days ago


mordy said:


> ...
> Is an EL 3 N and 6BL 7 a perfect 10?


 
  
post #6828  2 weeks, 3 days ago


hypnos1 said:


> Revised thoughts now, folks...both GECs back where they belong, and....WOW!...once again I'm reminded of why they're regarded as the 'Holy Grail'. Sorry Glenn, but I'm fairly sure that anything less than 6x 6BL7s would be struggling to beat this sound, when driven by the fabulous EL3Ns, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
post #6833  2 weeks, 3 days ago


hypnos1 said:


> Hi there UT...afraid to say I am now - for the first _real_ time ever - *100%* sure, my Antipodean friend!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The above posts should be very useful for those sitting on the sidelines about Mrs. Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This unrivaled enthuasm from random members far and wide all with the same paranormally good experience has got me to break my rule to try something first. I dunno about ya'all, but you guys totally had me at 'heavenly'!!! And within weeks I too shall be one the lucky ones!


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
  
 I find it fascinating that there is such a divergence in what works for different people. Some people don't get good results with the EL3N or the 6BL7, and others get excellent results.
  
 Be it what it may, and as stated many times before, there is no best tube or best solution for everybody, but I feel that it is safe to say that there is a group of tubes that is top tier. In this select group everybody should be able to find great sound that works for them.
  
 Most of the people on this forum seem to be listening through headphones, whereas I mainly listen through speakers - perhaps it makes a difference in the choice of tubes as well.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm waiting to hear your impressions of Elise when you get her @DecentLevi . It's a long time coming but you're a very keen head-fier so it will be interesting to hear what you think of this streetcar named Desire aka Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's quite fun reading some of the past comments but I think it will be a torture for me to reread it again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well I'm glad you did get to try out 4xEL3N in Elise @pctazhp . You're the 3rd person. TJ tried it and love it too. For me, it's a defining moment. What I wrote about the benchmark in post #6004 should now be rewritten for not just 4xEL3N but 6xEL3N. I'm very impressed by this Sakuma's style which I wrote here post #5966. At the point of writing that, I've not heard 4xEL3N yet.
  
 There is one more experiment for me. My pair of dual 6BL7 adapters are on it's way to me. I'll be running 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 (total 6.62A) without external power supplies. If this works just as well as multiple EL3N, then it will be real bonus for me and for some of us I guess.
  
 I wish everyone a joyful time using Elise with their headphones or speakers. There are certainly lots of tubes combination to keep everyone and their wallets happy. Remember it's because of a fundamentally well design and well executed Elise that makes all these amazing tube rolling possible. To recap @pctazhp again, I certainly feel that @hypnos1 has done much for our community in being responsible for Elise creation, also the following tubes discovery and initial use in Elise ... C3g, ECC31, FDD20, 2031 and finally EL3N. Thanks very much _*mon ami.*_


----------



## tjw321

Edit: Turns out that I was going down with flu so my hearing was compromised when I did this experiment.
  
 I'm still on 4xEL3Ns but I did some "headphone rolling" last night.
  
 My favourite, all-round, headphones (that I own) are currently the HD600s. The AKG K702s are close and, in some circumstances, they can beat the HD600s, but they are more fatiguing so I only listen to them when I'm "in the mood" (or on my ifi stack on which they aren't fatiguing at all, for some reason - probably because that is in the living room so I keep the volume down so as not to disturb everyone else). Although the HD600s are better all-round, all those sessions where I end up staying up all night playing "just one more song" have occurred with the AKGs - until I had my first session with 4xEL3Ns where I happened to be using my HD600s. So you can imagine how much I was looking forward to trying the AKGs with my 4xEL3Ns...
  
 Uh-oh, They sounded terrible! There was no synergy at all! I'd delayed trying them out until I was more rested, but in the end I couldn't wait any longer and I tried them out yesterday despite being very short of sleep after a reunion get together on Friday. Maybe they'll be better another time, but I'm not optimistic.
  
 OTOH, I picked up some really cheap DT990s a while back as an impulse purchase (because they were so cheap). I liked them, but I didn't love them. They were good for what I paid for them, but on sound quality alone there was no chance of them displacing my Senns, or my AKGs.....until the 4xEL3N! It was just as well I was so tired, otherwise it would have been another all-nighter. The DT-990 and the 4xEL3N have a real synergy together. I haven't tried them back to back with my HD600s yet, but I think it's going to be close! Add in the comfort factor, and the HD600s may be relegated (ifi->AKGs, Elise->DT990s, ?->HD600)
  
 I'm going to give the AKGs another go at some point because I can't believe they're really that bad a match with the EL3Ns (they've worked with other valves), or maybe the EL3Ns just need a higher impedance headphone? (DT990 = 250ohm, HD600 = 300ohm, K702 = 62ohm). Or maybe I just need a T1....?


----------



## UntilThen

You need 6xEL3N  for that par 5 drive !!! 

Thanks for sharing TJ. Interesting to read your findings.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> And now I am at my next “Elise breakthrough” -running an EL3N (four) only Elise. I won’t try to describe what I am hearing. I’m burned out trying to come up with words to describe my sonic experiences. For me one of the hardest and worst jobs I could have would be an audio reviewer. I consider Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound to be the greatest reviewer of all times. I doubt anyone will exceed or even equal him.
> 
> I will simply say I feel I am getting close to my end game.


 
 That was how I felt when I first listen to 4xEL3N. That was the day LR passed me his 2 white EL3N adapters. I spend a day listening to 2 EL3N as driver and 2 EL3N as power tubes and could not believe how good they sound through my T1. It's a natural presentation that is effortless. Music just sound right with these 4 tubes in Elise. I wasn't too lavish with my praise because my HE560 has distortions past 10:30am on the volume dial but my T1 and HD650 was just producing so soothing music. 
  
 Then the dual EL3N adapters came and I was able to run 6xEL3N in Elise. That was when I was quietly happy and felt no compulsion to do any more reviews on EL3N. I did give some impressions here and there but I was quite reluctant to promote it any further. However I'm glad both you and TJ heard it and love it. As with all things audio, there will be preferences. However I know that this is end game for me with 6xEL3N. I have found my audio nirvana with Elise and T1 and these tubes.
  
 Now to test out those Bose mini monitors when they arrive ... probably will miss my plane trying to catch it on the runway.
  
 ps... if anyone can surpass Harry Pearson, you can.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi all fellow Elise owners - and would-be owners!
  
 Thanks for not calling me a _turncoat_ after my last edict...was trying to bring just a little 'restraint' for those either new or _relatively _new to the game - it's only too easy to get 'carried away' in this hobby of ours, lol!....just ask our better halves!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I'd be the last to deny people the joy and fascination that can be had, and that most of us have been enjoying for a good while now - and which has indeed brought with it some fascinating discoveries...the thanks for which I must thank you @pctazhp, @UntilThen, @JazzVinyl, @mordy (and others) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And we certainly have managed to give folks a very wide choice of tubes with which to experiment, and hopefully enough majority agreement to get a reasonable idea on which to base one's expenditure, lol....but mordy, I do sometimes wonder whether "if good is good, isn't better better" can lead _some_ folks into unnecessary territory?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...'tis a fine line indeed, sometimes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and can easily draw us into @MIKELAP's wonderful " *IT NEVER ENDS" *land, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (I'm still not _absolutely_ sure I've broken free from his mantra! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...
  
 Anyway, I wish everyone the very best in their own journeys, with Elise as a wonderful companion. And hope _*all*_ experience the level of joy and amazement with her that I still find hard to believe...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....CHEERS EVERYONE!.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. @DecentLevi...thanks for your mammoth effort in that compilation....WELL DONE!!...a definite one to be listed on my first post - along with all the others I should be able to get around to listing _very_ soon now...(hopefully!).


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Look, on the travel itinerary it helps to stop at 1635 to better appreciate the EL3N....
  
 Nothing ventured, nothing gained....
  
 Happy end game tube rolling!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> ps... if anyone can surpass Harry Pearson, you can.


 
  
 Next to the runway joke, that's my second best laugh of the week


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> There is one more experiment for me. My pair of dual 6BL7 adapters are on it's way to me. I'll be running* 2x6N23P* and 4x6BL7 (total 6.62A) without external power supplies. If this works just as well as multiple EL3N, then it will be real bonus for me and for some of us I guess.


 
 Question UT:  I think I understand that you intend to use the 6N23Ps as drivers to stay under the max amp draw from Elise's transformer. But do you have any belief they may as good as the EL3Ns in the driver sockets (which would require external power)?
  
 Actually, a second question. Does the brand of 6N23P make much of a difference.
  
 As I have already said, I have 4 6BL7s, and will probably order dual adapters for them when I order the dual adapters for the EL3Ns.
  
 Apologize in advance if you have already discussed this and I missed it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Question UT:  I think I understand that you intend to use the 6N23Ps as drivers to stay under the max amp draw from Elise's transformer. But do you have any belief they may as good as the EL3Ns in the driver sockets (which would require external power)?
> 
> Actually, a second question. Does the brand of 6N23P make much of a difference.
> 
> ...


 

 I was going to play you a song... but your questions came through. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6N23P will not sound as good as EL3N 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I was testing with 6xEL3N the other day. After a few hours, I remove the EL3N drivers and put in 6N23P as drivers with 4xEL3N still in the power position. It sounded quite alright. Not as good as with EL3N in driver position but still pretty good.
  
 In the past I've been quite happy running 6N23P with Chatham 6AS7G. Sounded quite good. These 6N23P are a pocket dynamite. They are pretty punchy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Voskhod 6N23P - there's a lengthy review in the Schitt Lyr tube rolling thread done by this gentleman. post #8596. I have the 1975 version. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes I'm fond of this little tube.


----------



## UntilThen

And this is the song I wanted to play for you. For some reasons I always feel sad listening to it. Puts me in a reflective mood.


----------



## UntilThen

The other thing I wanted to do with the dual 6BL7 - 6SN7 adapters is to run with 4x6SN7 as power tubes. I don't expect too much from this but since I'm having the adapters and 6SN7 tubes, I'll give it a go too. Each 6SN7 is 0.6A. So could effectively run 6x6SN7 (3.6A) and be well under Elise power transformer threshold of 6.5A


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to 2x6N23P and 4xEL3N now and it's pretty good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I'll try that with 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 when my adapters arrived. Safe experimentations and the tubes don't cost that much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps... you need an adapter to use 6N23P. Get the 6922 to 6SN7 adapter from Mrs XuLing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

You can definitely do the 4x 6SN7 as powers and see what you get. 

Interesting that pct said 6BL7 and EL3N did not gel well. i would definitely suggest your best 6SN7's as drivers, when using Multi 6BL7's. 

It's a big change to hear what Multi 6 BL7's do as opposed to traditional power tubes.

If you read this guys "Tube Rolling: Output Tubes" section, he found perfect words to describe the sonic difference:

http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/entries/show/42754587-building-a-reference-system-part-2-glenn-s-headphone-amplifier

Also note, this reviewer is a T1 afficianddo...


----------



## UntilThen

What I want to know is how 4x6BL7 compares with 4xEL3N as power tubes.... using 6N23P as driver tubes... which I will find out. I have a feeling they will sound good just as the EL3N did. In which case it will be a bonus. 
  
 Plus comparison with 4x6SN7 as power tubes.
  
 Definitely the last of my experimentations.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Your in for a different expirence, altogether. 

Hot chocolate vs cappuccino.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Listening to 2x6N23P and 4xEL3N now and it's pretty good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting experiments, UT...as are yours @JazzVinyl...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One thing is beginning to have me somewhat confused, however - ie. the overwhelming concensus in head-fi land is that it's the *DRIVERS *that really determine the sound signature...the powers (_mostly_) just add necessary current.
  
 Now I know we have shown that power/output tubes can actually have more influence than some might believe, but are we saying here that they can have a _dramatic_ influence,   and therefore flying in the face of convention, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I look forward to more experimental findings from folks willing to put this to the test - and confound established 'wisdom'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...More interesting times ahead...


----------



## JazzVinyl

As I recall, it was the discovery of how much influence the externally heated 6AS7G transformed the sound of the LD MK IV. 

At that time, I remember it being said "Clearly, the power tubes have a lot more influence on the sound than was thought possible". 

Very soon thereafter, H1 contacted Feliks for a new amp that used the 6AS7G, natively. 

Here we are again, at a crossroads of what is possible, and the prevailing tube that brings the change, turns out to be the powers....



.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> As I recall, it was the discovery of how much influence the externally heated 6AS7G transformed the sound of the LD MK IV.
> 
> At that time, I remember it being said "Clearly, the power tubes have a lot more influence on the sound than was thought possible".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Too true, JV...but I must admit I thought it was more of a 'fluke'/stroke of luck with the LDs, that managed to contradict convention...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...hence the search to see what an amp _properly_ configured for the 6AS7G could do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. We will certainly be in incredible 'luck' once again, if similar results can be replicated in the Elise, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially considering Glenn's amp you linked to was configured from scratch to use multiple 6BL7s....fingers crossed!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And that's certainly a fairly comprehensive review of Glenn's amp...but with major omissions IMHO...
  
 1. I didn't notice a comprehensive trial of top-of-the-range 6AS7Gs/6080s/5998s etc.
 2. The minor differences regarding drivers is not totally unexpected, due to the sole use of the 6SN7 family!....once we get into completely different drivers, the whole picture changes considerably, and different 'synergies' come into play. This is where I personally believe the review in question is extremely limited - I believe we ourselves, with our Elises, have in fact covered a _much_ wider gamut of variable factors.... all to our advantage, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 And so I remain hopeful that our unconventional experimentation will indeed push Elise to even greater heights!....Keep up the good work....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 ps  I must repeat, however, that pretty well all the positive descriptions in the Glenn review I recognise in my own EL3N/GEC/Osram/T1 set-up...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 (and this isn't just wishful thinking, LOL!!)....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, I'm sure it will not be said that this new way is the ONLY way to go. Just another branch in the tree of Sonic goodness.

I'm sure some will greatly prefer the traditional powers and exotic drivers.

Not a problem. I have already seen my rocket change directions, I prefer this new way of things.

The part of the Glenn review regarding the multi 6BL7's that I found most interesting was:

"Higher resolution"
"Extended range at both ends"
"More focused"

I find these attributes to be exactly what I hear. And I like it.

I kept saying "deeper, with more inner detail". But I think the Glenn reviewer says it better.

It's *ALL GOOD* for the *Lucky Ones*





.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Interesting experiments, UT...as are yours @JazzVinyl...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1. Certainly I have experienced significant differences with power tubes, but it seems at least in part due to the headphone in use. The 6BL7s worked great with my HD700s (impedance 150 ohms) but not so good with the T1s (600 ohm impedance). I wonder if impedance of the particular phone might be partially responsible for differences people are experiencing using the same power tubes. That might seem possible in an OTL amp.


----------



## K4RL

decentlevi said:


> ...
> AND NOW I'M PLEASED TO PRESENT YOU SOME OF MY HIGHLIGHTS FROM THIS THREAD!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man, it's been such a long time since I visited the thread that I don't even know what the EL3N is. Thanks for putting this summary together so I don't have to catch up on the past few hundred pages. 
  
 I just wanted to stop by and give my long-term thoughts on the Elise. The best thing I can say is that I've lost interest in head-fi. When I listen to the HD650s <-- Elise (stock powers & C3g [thanks h1!]) <-- Bifrost, there's nothing I would change about the sound. The setup makes me smile all the time and I'm still catching little bits of details in the music that I haven't heard before. Maybe there're better tubes and headphones, but this sounds so perfect that I absolutely don't care to try them. People around head-fi seem to use the term "end-game" fairly readily, but I think this is really what it's about. I wish the rest of you the best on your way. Now, back to the music


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> H1. Certainly I have experienced significant differences with power tubes, but it seems at least in part due to the headphone in use. The 6BL7s worked great with my HD700s (impedance 150 ohms) but not so good with the T1s (600 ohm impedance). I wonder if impedance of the particular phone might be partially responsible for differences people are experiencing using the same power tubes. That might seem possible in an OTL amp.




Right, and multiple 6BL7's cure the "unable to drive problem". 

I said 1x 6BL7 were unable to drive my 600 ohm Beyers' as well. My impression of them using 1x, was poor, for that very reason.


----------



## pctazhp

@JazzVinyl  When Mrs. Xuling returns from vacation, I'll order dual adapters for both the EL3Ns and 6BL7s and will see what I see. Or I guess, I will hear what I hear


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> JV:  When Mrs. Xuling returns from vacation, I'll order dual adapters for both the EL3Ns and 6BL7s and will see what I see. Or I guess, I will hear what I hear




Very nice. 

Your in for some serious ear candy....


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen Is this the right adapter for the 6N23Ps? http://www.ebay.com/itm/201424647702
  
 I couldn't find one from Mrs. Xuling on ebay. Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

Don't you guys sleep ? !!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen Is this the right adapter for the 6N23Ps? http://www.ebay.com/itm/201424647702
> 
> I couldn't find one from Mrs. Xuling on ebay. Thanks


 
 Hi P,
  
 Seems Mrs XuLing does not have the 6922 to 6SN7 adapters anymore. I got mine from her at $19.80 a pair back in 4th Sept 2015.
  
 Your link is very expensive. Get the one below from Suzier. It's much cheaper.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-Amplifier-E88CC-6922-Replace-6SN7-6SL7-Tube-Socket-Adapter-Suzier-D5-1PCS-/281787402366?hash=item419bd6887e
  
 Cheers,


----------



## UntilThen

k4rl said:


> Man, it's been such a long time since I visited the thread that I don't even know what the EL3N is. Thanks for putting this summary together so I don't have to catch up on the past few hundred pages.
> 
> I just wanted to stop by and give my long-term thoughts on the Elise. The best thing I can say is that I've lost interest in head-fi. When I listen to the HD650s <-- Elise (stock powers & C3g [thanks h1!]) <-- Bifrost, there's nothing I would change about the sound. The setup makes me smile all the time and I'm still catching little bits of details in the music that I haven't heard before. Maybe there're better tubes and headphones, but this sounds so perfect that I absolutely don't care to try them. People around head-fi seem to use the term "end-game" fairly readily, but I think this is really what it's about. I wish the rest of you the best on your way. Now, back to the music


 
 Love the forum. I'm tickled pink. You're very wise @K4RL to stop at stock powers and C3g. If you're happy with that then yeah why carry on. Just be happy with that and listen to music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Which is what I should be doing instead of doing this monster comparison :-
  
 4x6SN7 vs 4xEL3N vs 4x6BL7 as power tubes
  
 using 2x6N23P as driver tubes. 
  
 ...but hey it's one more for the road, then it's sunshine with my music. There's enough good sounding tubes here in my inventory to last a millennium years.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen Thanks. Suzier's is also much nicer looking ))
  
 Sleep??? That's a pretty radical concept don't you think????


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 I did notice that Suzier has an option "make offer". You may want to try to make a low ball offer and may get back a decent counter offer - worth trying IMHO.
  
 The shipping for two is $5.20 which may afford more wiggle room with the pricing.
  
 I seem to remember that you can buy impedance adapters to use with your headphones; they simply plug in into the headphone jack and then the headphone plug goes into the adapter. However, I cannot find the link at the moment, but I think that that you could convert low impedance to higher impedance.
  
 Would be interesting to find out if this is a workaround for headphones that don't sound good with certain tube combinations.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Interesting experiments, UT...as are yours @JazzVinyl...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know this is getting too crazy. I want to get back to the start... get a juicy pair of drivers and power tubes and be done with it. 
  
 Like a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates and a pair of GEC 6AS7G. Sounds good? No ugly contraption, no adapters, no over heating and should be glorious sound right?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Seems Mrs XuLing does not have the 6922 to 6SN7 adapters anymore. I got mine from her at $19.80 a pair back in 4th Sept 2015.


 
  
 She does.
  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-6N11-TO-6SN7-6N8P-VT231-B65-Tube-converter-adapter-/201042793753
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191548238624
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-instead-6SN7-B65-12SN7-6SL7-12SL7-Multi-tube-converter-adapter-/191683185290


----------



## mordy

OK - found the impedance adapter I had in mind:
  
_"This item can custom made different ohm impedance adaptor(15, 30, 33, 36, 68, 91, 120, 150, 200 & 300ohm)."_
  




  
 Here is the link:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/IMPEDANCE-RESISTANCE-ADAPTOR-3-5MM-TO-6-35MM-PLUG-/300453295797?hash=item45f46976b5mCmMlix0arqZHJgAFdWutxA
  
 Does anybody know if such and adapter has any sound coloration?


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 The third link that you listed is very interesting - it is a multi adapter with changeable jumpers that can accommodate some 30 different types of tubes, 6 and 12 volts. Hopefully it comes with instructions......


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> The third link that you listed is very interesting - it is a multi adapter with changeable jumpers that can accommodate some 30 different types of tubes, 6 and 12 volts. Hopefully it comes with instructions......


 
  
 "after order will send excel list tubes." So hopefully. ​




  
 I think it'll let you use tubes such as 6CG7 and ECC88/6DJ8 instead of 6SN7GT, tubes such as 12CG7 to replace 12SN7GT, and tubes such as ECC82/12AU7 to replace both 6SN7GT and 12SN7GT.


----------



## pctazhp

Seek and you shall find.
 Ask and you shall receive.
 My cup now runs over with...
 Adapter opportunities ))))


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 From my Little Dot days I have many of the tubes you mentioned. When I tried them in the Elise I felt that they could not match the current crop of driver tubes.
  
 However, according to JV it is a different ball game using double 6BL7 tubes as power tubes. We'll see...


----------



## pctazhp

How soon we can forget. I'm guessing that there are deserving tubes that may have been left behind. While I'm anxious to reach my mythical "end game", I do want to at least make it all the way through my current drawer full of antique bulbs. A while ago I posted some initial negative comments about my pair of Mullard 6080s. I popped them in about an hour ago (while waiting for the Super Bowl to start) and with EL3N drivers, they really sound wonderful.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> However, according to JV it is a different ball game using double 6BL7 tubes as power tubes. We'll see...




With Multi 6BL7's you will want to stick close to the 6SN7 family. Just tried C3g with Multi 6BL7 and sound very similar to my best 6SN7, but (and I don't know why) the gain is way way lower using the C3g compared to 6SN7. 

The bigger mu/gain advantage of C3g is lost when using the multi 6BL7's. 

Same for 6N7G family. Sounds okay but gain is very low using these tubes as drivers. 

There must be something electrically about 6SN7 that the multi 6BL7 like (besides the mu factor). 

The 6SN7's sound really great! As I said before we always thought 6SN7's were "easily" beaten in Elise. 

That is NO LONGER THE CASE when using multi 6BL7's...your 6SN7 will now be your best sounding tubes. 

Ken Rad, Raytheon, Sylvania, CBS, Tung Sol, NU, all sound fantastic, each brand has a little different signature. 

7N7 also sounds absolutely breath-takingly superb, using the multi 6BL7 as powers. 

It's a different amp, a different world...deeper richer, tighter, more details, more focused. I think many will like it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

For instance:

With normal power tubes...a bass note...is fat round, deep solid and great.

With multi 6BL7's that same bass note is lower, tighter, deeper, solid, and you can realize the long string vibrating, the "source of the sound" is more apparent.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Don't get me started on the difference in the B3 organ....


----------



## hypnos1

Just a quickie before bedtime, and another eye-opener...been listening to Sarah Chang playing the Bruch and Brahms Violin Concertos, with the Dresdner Philharmonia, and all I can say is I enjoyed this FAR more than a live performance (by Tasmin Little) I paid a lot of money for recently, lol!
  
 The tonal range in the violin was just exquisite - an excellent instrument for evaluation purposes - and the dynamic range of the orchestra handled impeccably. I have never before experienced these (and other similar concertos) to the same degree of excitement and emotion...I am in Heaven, lol!...and don't want to come back down to Earth...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...
  
 Goodnight all.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Suuup

Okay, a little update about the >7A current draw situation. I just rolled my EL6 into the power slots and ECC31 as drivers. No sound on the right channel. I re-seated the tube and now there's sound. It seems the lack of sound wasn't due to the current draw being too high, but rather a loose connection between the EL6 tube and the adapter. I will try with the 5998 as powers and EL6 as drivers again (for a total of 7.4A current draw), when I get the time.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Be careful, Suuup, failure means melted wires from the transformer and wherever they are routed to, inside the amp, liable to melt some other goodies, along the way....


----------



## mordy

Hi henriks,
  
 I see that you are watching - what do you think about what's going on with the Elise?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Be careful, Suuup, failure means melted wires from the transformer and wherever they are routed to, inside the amp, liable to melt some other goodies, along the way....


 
 I realize. I will be keeping a close eye on the temperature. If it's rising too quickly or too high, I'll abort mission.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Just a quickie before bedtime, and another eye-opener...been listening to Sarah Chang playing the Bruch and Brahms Violin Concertos, with the Dresdner Philharmonia, and all I can say is I enjoyed this FAR more than a live performance (by Tasmin Little) I paid a lot of money for recently, lol!
> 
> The tonal range in the violin was just exquisite - an excellent instrument for evaluation purposes - and the dynamic range of the orchestra handled impeccably. I have never before experienced these (and other similar concertos) to the same degree of excitement and emotion...I am in Heaven, lol!...and don't want to come back down to Earth...  ...
> 
> Goodnight all.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz




Very nice! I love when your "transported to the place and moment where the music is being made"!

Soul Transportation Device!


----------



## UntilThen

This what K4RL is happy with and it is indeed very good. The warm dark tones of the stock power blending nicely with the bright clear tones of the C3G. A very good blend indeed.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks all for the positive words on my compilation I posted 3 pages back - it was a small / scattered effort, and there are certainly much better posts that I've overlooked - would be interesting to see someone do a better best-of compilation of posts from this and maybe the previous thread sometime.
  
  @K4RL that was very interesting and inspirational to read your post! Especially since I too have HD 650's, and with the Elise on the way. But I'm set to forgo the stock tubes in favor of numerous recommendations from this thread. I've no doubt your sound is excellent, but think of it this way: What would all these multi-hundreds of pages of interest mostly regarding tube rolling have been done for, had we not noticed further upgrades in the sound? The audiophile realm is a mysterious one, with much grey area where some things cannot be explained by science but must be heard to believe. I do suggest though - at least check this thread every few weeks because there are incoming developments with the likes of 6BL7, which are very cheap.
  
 I for one am still keen on hearing how multi-6BL7 compares to multi-EL3N setups, and any combinations thereof 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 PS - The Superbowl is happening just a few miles from me as I speak, but I guess we're gonna have to find out who's responsible for my not getting any royalties from Levi's stadium 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 - Levi


----------



## tjw321

Ignore everything I wrote about my "headphone rolling" earlier. It turns out that I was about to go down with flu and had developed a temporary (I hope!) treble sensitivity.
  
 I'll repeat the experiment when my hearing is back to normal.


----------



## UntilThen

Hope you get well soon. Here's a combo to cheer you up. All 6SN7. Elise is incredibly versatile.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Hope you get well soon. Here's a combo to cheer you up. All 6SN7. Elise is incredibly versatile.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a couple of tubes arriving today. That should cheer me up, even if I put off listening until I'm better.
  
 In the mean-time, my DT990s sound pretty good through my old PA2V2 so I'm not without music! Losing all that detail can sometimes be a good thing, if your head can't take it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (Actually, it's a lot better than I was expecting - I can see why it has a bit of a cult following, but no comparison to the Elise, of course)


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @tjw321...you have my sympathies, lol - it's unbelievable just how these bugs affect our hearing, along with all the other nasty things they bring!...my own recent lot had me thinking either my EL3Ns or Elise herself were going down!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And what an utter joy when the hearing returned...MAGIC!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(ps. GET WELL SOON!).
  
 And @K4RL, you are indeed a prime example of just how "audio nirvana" can be achieved without having to keep up with the "latest and greatest", LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...glad you're really happy with your combo....CHEERS!!


----------



## UntilThen

More than 3 months now with Elise. Along the way, other items came such as the NAD and T1. Lastly 6xEL3N. This setup is glorious sound to me. I'm prepared to off load some of my prized collections now. Am I? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok will have to think deeply about this. I love my tubes too much. Every single one of them. Even Tung Sol mickey mouse.
  
 Happy listening all.


----------



## UntilThen

For anyone buying the dual EL3N adapters. To loosen it don't try to unscrew the screw on the top. It's too tight. You will just round off the thread. Instead just gently turn the bottom 6SN7 adapter and you can rotate it. If it becomes too loose or wobbly, I just put some blu tack on it. Works. Like this.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys....good news!
  
 For any who might be looking for NOS EL3Ns, Peter - the guy UT found and who has really good tubes - has managed to acquire some more...albeit at a slightly higher price (due to _his_ higher cost, alas) - 30 Euros each + shipping.
  
 Link here : http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/nostubes/nos-tubes-main-page.htm


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys....good news!
> 
> For any who might be looking for NOS EL3Ns, Peter - the guy UT found and who has really good tubes - has managed to acquire some more...albeit at a slightly higher price (due to _his_ higher cost, alas) - 30 Euros each + shipping.
> 
> Link here : http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/nostubes/nos-tubes-main-page.htm


 

 Hehehe let me buy 6 of these before it disappear again.


----------



## UntilThen

Today's tubes on duty are ECC31 and 5998. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love this tube amp soooooo muuuuch.
  
 Sam Cooke has never sounded better.
  

  
 It's so good with this. Haha Ron Wood is watching for a change.


----------



## hypnos1

Guys...have been wondering why I was so impressed with my last midnight listening session...viz Sarah Chang's Bruch and Brahms Violin Concertos, which I preferred to my recent live performance experience....
  
 After reading an article in a mag from an up-market purveyor of specialist cables, plugs and various other 'sound-enhancing' accessories (most of which I find rather over-priced IMHO!) - ie. Russ Andrews - I was reminded of just why this was the case. It was on the topic of "_Why_ are we listening?"...and _what_ are we listening _for_?
  
 And it's basically to do with the difference between _analysing_ the _sound_, and _listening_ to the _performance_ of the music. This highlighted the trap that we can sometimes get caught in when "assessing" and describing our findings with different equipment. In dissecting things such as 'extension'; 'tightness' of bass; instrument separation etc. etc., we can so easily miss what is actually more important - the less 'audiophile' qualities such as  'presence', and the performer's ability to impart _emotion_ to the listener, along with impeccable rhythm and timing. And of course, this 'magic' will be totally lost if the recording/reproduction equipment isn't up to the task...from the studio to our headphones/speakers.
  
 I now realise my joy at the music session mentioned was down to my _not_ trying to analyse the _sound_, but simply responding to what I was _feeling_, not just _hearing_. And when all the elements just mentioned come together well, _then_ we can give a true and fair comment on what we have experienced...and hence also the _equipment's_ part in all this.
  
 I'm glad to say that the Elise has the ability to reproduce these more 'emotional' qualities, as well as those 'audiophile' descriptive terms that have been heaped upon her in glorious rapture, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. And for me personally, _*all*_ these qualities shone as never before in my aforementioned listening session. And given the only variable from previous non-analytical sessions was the presence of the *EL3Ns* as drivers, I must conclude that these are indeed superlative tubes for delivering the kind of sound I now realise is actually what we should be seeking, regardless of what other tubes may deliver in comparison....Naturally, differences in gear and ears will play their part, but I'm sure that the basic concept I've been discussing is pretty well universal...barring disasters _somewhere_ along the line, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 So, folks....savour the _*Emotion!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...during your HAPPY LISTENING...


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1 Our telepathic channel is still running at 100%. End game for me is the EMOTION. The feelings I get when I am hearing music that "speaks to me" at a deep gut level is my true end game!! I could struggle to describe what I am hearing. But I wouldn't even try to describe what I am feeling, because that transcends words.


----------



## UntilThen

With Elise it's not just audio but visual as well. I have a lot of music DVDs which I will be spinning for an immersive experience today.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May not be the best sonic qualities but you can watch the musicians perform. The sound quality is pretty good. I have the Hell Freezes Over by Eagles and Pink Floyd DVD as well.
  
 Things just got better by the minute.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen Eric Clampton and BB King = EMOTION = BEYOND WORDS )))
  
 But this is a tube rolling thread so I will report that right now I'm listening to Philips Miniwatts FD20 driving a pair of EL3Ns in the power position. Today is my birthday - what an amazing gift it is to be listening to Clampton and King in such an amazing way right now))))


----------



## UntilThen

> Today is my birthday - what an amazing gift it is to be listening to Clampton and King in such an amazing way right now))))


 
  
 Happy birthday to you !!! Here's a song for you P.


----------



## Suuup

I've been running 6080 and ECC31 for ~3 hours now. Total current draw is 7A. The temperature on the deck (center) is 59C degress. The temperature on top of the transformer is 45C degrees. For reference, the room temperature is 24C degrees. Very hot, compared to many other tube combinations. Definitely the hottest one I've tried.


----------



## mordy

Hi suuup.
  
 Time for a fan or two....
  
 I use old 4" and 3" fans from old PCs, mounted above the amp (have it on a rack) and pulling away the hot air from the amp.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi suuup.
> 
> Time for a fan or two....
> 
> I use old 4" and 3" fans from old PCs, mounted above the amp (have it on a rack) and pulling away the hot air from the amp.


 
 I think that might be a good idea Mordy. I'll try to scavenge a few fans tomorrow and make a fan creation. Hopefully it won't be too hideous.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Notes with using multi 6BL7's as power tubes. 

2x per side drive cans up to 300 ohms with authority.

600 ohm cans work, but are not driven with the same command and authority. 

If 600 ohm cans are your goal using these tubes, you might want to wait until the 3x 6BL7's per side are fabricated. 

If you are an "Elise as preamp" user, exclusively, Mordy reports 1x per side is okay.


----------



## Suuup

I finally received my Russian 6H7C, which are equivalent to the 6N7G. I've looked at 4 of them so far. One had broken glass, one made weird noises. 2 of them works fine though. Still have 4 more to test. Got 8 in total.
  
 I have to say, they sound better than I expected. Have been running them for about 30 minutes now, and it's not too bad actually.


----------



## mordy

Hi suup,
  
 Seems to me that the correct equivalent to these Russian 6H7C is 6N7GT (glass tubular) - as far as I know, all 6N7G are ST type (shoulder type = Coke bottle shape).
  
 Are these the same? (4 for $17 shipped)
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291246594512?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi suup,
> 
> Seems to me that the correct equivalent to these Russian 6H7C is 6N7GT (glass tubular) - as far as I know, all 6N7G are ST type (shoulder type = Coke bottle shape).
> 
> ...


 
 Ah yes, you are of course correct Mordy. These are the Russian '6N7' equivalent. They only make ST type bottles. 
  
 Yes, it is the same tube as you linked. Not sure why they call it both 6N7S and 6H7C. Is there a difference between the two?


----------



## Suuup

Holy **** this is good. Thank you UT!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Holy **** this is good. Thank you UT!




+1 to this set of tubes in Miss Elise!!

Yeah!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Holy **** this is good. Thank you UT!


 
 Lol it ain't good until they look the same. Need to get the silver paint off. You're welcome, enjoy.
  
 I have a pair of 6N7S. The 6N7S double triode was designed for amplification of low-frequency power. Tubes were manufactured by FOTON plant (TASHKENT City). Equivalents to the 6N7GT.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Yes, it is the same tube as you linked. Not sure why they call it both 6N7S and 6H7C. Is there a difference between the two?


 
  
 The difference is the script, Latin (6N7S) and Cyrillic (6Н7С).


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> The difference is the script, Latin (6N7S) and Cyrillic (6Н7С).


 
 Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks!
  
  


untilthen said:


> Lol it ain't good until they look the same. Need to get the silver paint off. You're welcome, enjoy.
> 
> I have a pair of 6N7S. The 6N7S double triode was designed for amplification of low-frequency power. Tubes were manufactured by FOTON plant (TASHKENT City). Equivalents to the 6N7GT.


 
 I don't know, I like the asymmetric look. Might keep it like this for a while. 


jazzvinyl said:


> +1 to this set of tubes in Miss Elise!!
> 
> Yeah!


 
 Who needs 5998? This is surprisingly good. I don't feel like I'm missing any bottom-end, and I like the forward and clear representation of the 6080. Only downside is the high amount of heat they generate.


----------



## Suuup

I really cannot believe how good FDD20 is. This is absolutely amazing. I don't think I'll ever leave my chair again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I really cannot believe how good FDD20 is. This is absolutely amazing. I don't think I'll ever leave my chair again.




Yes, FDD20/6080 is a sweet pair!

UT's use of socket savers is good for 6080's, too, gets that hot bottom metal band, off the deck...


----------



## mordy

Hi suuup,
  
 FDD20 and Mullard 6080.
  
 I am running the EL3N as drivers and the 6BL7 as power tubes. Last night I switched the Mullard 6080 for the 6BL7. I like the Mullards very much - the best of the 6080s I have.
  
 BUT, after 20 minutes I had to put back my 6BL7 tubes. They have a sweetness and detail with the EL3N that the Mullards don't have. Can only speak for myself and my own system - YMMV.
  
 If you get inexpensive octal socket savers for the 6080 tubes you will lower the temperature of the amp chassis, maybe to the point that you don't need the fans.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think Mordy is right about the 6BL7's as powers. They are incredibly special in all ways possible.

But, your cans are 600 ohms and 1x 6BL7 as powers, will not make them sing.

I am afraid that 3x per side 6BL7's will be required and then...mandatory external heat, would suggest a 15 amp capable supply (actual draw for 3x per side 6 TOTAL) will be a whopping: 9 amps.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I really cannot believe how good FDD20 is. This is absolutely amazing. I don't think I'll ever leave my chair again.


 
  
 Sure is an excellent tube, S...a definite for those who want to have a go with external heater PS. And a good-looker too, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ENJOY!!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1 Our telepathic channel is still running at 100%. End game for me is the EMOTION. The feelings I get when I am hearing music that "speaks to me" at a deep gut level is my true end game!! I could struggle to describe what I am hearing. *But I wouldn't even try to describe what I am feeling, because that transcends words. *


 
  
 Yes indeed, pct...I'm now firmly of the opinion that _*this*_ in fact is how we should judge performance - both of the artist _and_ our equipment, lol....using this as a guide, and revisiting _many_ pieces of music I had been analysing to death(! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), I can at last enjoy the wonderful feeling of _liberation_ that comes from finally realising - and _accepting_ - that I am truly free from MIKELAP's mantra "IT NEVER ENDS"!! My current set-up is the culmination of _*much*_ searching; experimentation; learning; joy _and_ disappointment; controversy; shared opinions (sometimes _battles!_) and wonderful friendship...not to mention much more expenditure than I ever imagined previously, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....And I wouldn't have missed a single moment of it all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...well, perhaps the odd moment or two!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 And so to summarise, I would just advise folks to let what's entering the ears wash _over_ and _through_ oneself, and then decide on whether the end result does, or does not stir within, those... *"feelings that transcend words"*...and let _this_ be your guide 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps.  HAPPY (belated) BIRTHDAY!!
  
 And as a reminder...my own particular bringer of audio nirvana....


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> And so to summarise, I would just advise folks to let what's entering the ears wash _over_ and _through_ oneself, and then decide on whether the end result does, or does not stir within, those... *"feelings that transcend words"*...and let _this_ be your guide  ....CHEERS!.......




At the end of "It never Ends", is a beautiful place to be, H1 

Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And as a reminder...my own particular bringer of audio nirvana....


 
 A fitting way to end. That's total system synergy. Every item in there will combine for the best results I have no doubt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps... now you have one last task. Write a review of this setup for Elise review page.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


>




Look at how incredibly beautifully adapted they are! You would never know they weren't made to go into those SN7 sockets!

SUPER WELL DONE, H1 !!



.


----------



## pctazhp

I guess many of us have heard the story of Charles H. Duell who was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. He is reported to have said that  "everything that can be invented has been invented." That story has pretty well been debunked. But in some way it now seems that every Elise tube combination has already been tried.
  
 Of course, I know many of you will prove that statement to be as silly as the Duell story ))))
  
 But it seems @hypnos1 has done a wonderful job of at least putting all of this in perspective. I guess that is fitting as he got it all started )))
  
 I'm now going through all my untried tubes as I wait to order dual adapters for the EL3Ns. I now have three sets of the EL3Ns in hand. Right now I'm listening for the first time to my Fivre 6N7Gs black plates "with Horn" anno 1942. So amazing!!!!
  
 If I never hear about another possible tube experiment for the Elise I won't care. But if I lose the friendships I have developed here, it will be a big loss.


----------



## UntilThen

The Fivre 6N7G with Viking horns are indeed very sweet sounding tubes. I have both the horns and brown base which Suuup helped to track down for me.

Pct in the short time you've been here, your collection of carefully chosen tubes have grown faster than anyone. Now with T1 in your possession, you're with Hillary and Tenzing.


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> I guess many of us have heard the story of Charles H. Duell who was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. He is reported to have said that  "everything that can be invented has been invented." That story has pretty well been debunked. But in some way it now seems that every Elise tube combination has already been tried.
> 
> Of course, I know many of you will prove that statement to be as silly as the Duell story ))))
> 
> ...


 
 I, too, am here for the friendship. Tubes and Elise is a good common topic to talk about, but to me it's all about talking to you guys. 
  
 Came here for the tubes, stayed for the friendships. 
  
 And I'm glad to hear you've got a pair of Fivre 6N7G with horns. I want a pair myself some time.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> At the end of "It never Ends", is a beautiful place to be, H1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV...beautiful - and as I mentioned previously, incredibly _liberating_ lol!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and hopefully for a good long while - how does the saying go?..."_Never say never again"...??!! _





).
  
 I can only hope everyone feels this way with whatever combination they eventually find is right _just for them_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...my best wishes to all in this journey...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps Thanks for the praise on my adapting efforts...but I'm sure a fair bit is also down to _luck_ with these weird bases - as you can probably well imagine, given your own experiences, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  


untilthen said:


> A fitting way to end. That's total system synergy. Every item in there will combine for the best results I have no doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed UT...I truly believe I've been very lucky in managing to have all the different elements in my system gel together so well. And despite the controversial nature of the subject, I still believe the upgraded mains conditioner/filter; power cords; interconnects; minimal extras between tube and amp sockets, etc. do indeed contribute a fair amount to the overall performance...and not just _psychologically!!_




  
 And yes, mon ami, once I've spent a bit more time actually _enjoying_ more of my favourite music, I shall put back on my _'analytical'_ hat and finally write my own 'formal' review...but now, hopefully, with an added broader understanding of just what it is that makes Elise so special - ie from head _and_ heart, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And thanks to you too @pctazhp for your kind words...looks like you've still to enjoy some more experimentation before your own _liberation!_








...GO TO IT!!!
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> And I'm glad to hear you've got a pair of Fivre 6N7G with horns. I want a pair myself some time.


 
 PM me if you want to buy some of my exotic tubes, with or without horns. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Making way to secure a pair of GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## UntilThen

Elise in preamp duty.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Do you find that the Elise has a different sound signature as a preamp with your speakers, compared to the headphones?


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yes for sure. Speakers have a real spreadout soundstage and have that punch when you turn up the volume.

Having said that I like headphone listening too. Micro details are easily detected especially with T1 which is ruthlessly revealing.

Both nice. I just need the house to myself and let Dire Straits rip on the speakers. It's even more fun when I hooked up the Definitive Technology 12 inch sub for some ground shaking bass. 

ps...you'll still get the euphonic tube amp sound from Elise on the speakers. Big difference with and without Elise on the speakers. What can I say. I am so happy with Elise for doing both task well.


----------



## mordy

Just came across a father-daughter musician team that I have never heard of before. Apparently some people do - this clip has almost 1.8 million views..
  
 Anyhow, this young girl is an absolutely superb drummer in the classic New Orleans style. I watched it five times already - would watch it more times, but it is too late to stay up now..
  
 Martin and Sabine Pyrker. Sabine is fabulous - totally effortless - truly impressive!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnnbYagLaXM


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, I would like to suggest if we would please always mention the type of tubes used when we're posting a photo of it? Just on the last 2 pages I read about great combinations, but could only recognize half the tubes.
  
 FDD20+ ?
  
 EL3N+ ?
  
 That would be very useful, especially for those standing on the sidelines. 
  
 Those 6BL7's also seem promising, but I'll bet it will take our tube seller a few days to catch up after back from vacation though


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Just came across a father-daughter musician team that I have never heard of before. Apparently some people do - this clip has almost 1.8 million views..
> 
> Anyhow, this young girl is an absolutely superb drummer in the classic New Orleans style. I watched it three times already - would watch it more times, but it is too late to stay up now..
> 
> ...


 
 Yes nice music and good drumming. She started off using the steel brushes then move on to 5B drum sticks.
  
 I should learn to play the drums.. no? I have have both type of drums at home including Roland electronic. I might get delegated to the dog house.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Some sticks lying around...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Hi guys, I would like to suggest if we would please always mention the type of tubes used when we're posting a photo of it? Just on the last 2 pages I read about great combinations, but could only recognize half the tubes.


 
 DL you should know those tubes by hard now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 1st pic is FDD20 with Mullard 6080. 2nd pic is EL3N with GEC 6AS7G.
  
 I'll post one later with fancy light bulbs.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I like listening to headphone plug into my receiver with Elise as preamp. You get 6 dimensions as opposed to 3 listening direct from Elise. Much much wider and deeper soundstage.

It's a goosebumps generator.


----------



## UntilThen

My Hd650 has a 3 metres cable whereas T1 has 1.5m. So in order to spread out in the lounge I swap to HD650 and boy was I surprised by how good it sound connected to the receiver with Elise as preamp.

Hang on to your HD650 for dear life. It's pure music in this setup. Also today's the first time I'm running Elise as preamp with 6xEL3N. It's going to be a while before I head back to my study.


----------



## aqsw

Well, I got two El3n adapters today. I put them in the drivers seat with some 6080s in the powers. Still gets hot but not as bad as the 2031. I only listened for about 1/2 an hour. Seems very bright and lacks bass. I will let the tubes burn in more. I think it will get better with burn in. If it does, I guess I will have to buy more adapters.
No distortion till 2 oclock ( very loud). 

Im painting them today.


----------



## UntilThen

No distortions till 2 o'clock? Sounds like EL3N solves your problem. What a bonus. With Ether?

Have no fear. Bass will come. So will the mids and highs opens up. When new there seems a lot of energy. That was my word to describe it at the beginning. @Citizenlin calls it sparks, sparks, sparks. 

Word of caution. Running it at 4xEL3N has distortion on my HE560. That went away with 6xEL3N. I don't know how it will behave with the Ether.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Well, I got two El3n adapters today. I put them in the drivers seat with some 6080s in the powers. Still gets hot but not as bad as the 2031. I only listened for about 1/2 an hour. Seems very bright and lacks bass. I will let the tubes burn in more. I think it will get better with burn in. If it does, I guess I will have to buy more adapters.
> No distortion till 2 oclock ( very loud).
> 
> Im painting them today.


 
  
 Hi aqsw.
  
 There's something amiss somewhere, mon ami...you should be getting _loads_ of bass, lol - too much for some in the early days before it settles down!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...are they NOS tubes?...(and my own treble took a fair while to really come through....strange! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Whatever, I do hope your tubes develop over time the way mine have. And despite my early assumptions about burn-in time, I have found they do in fact continue to improve even well beyond the 100 hrs mark! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps. Perhaps it's different headphones? Again, as UT says, hopefully things will all 'come together' with a good bit more burn-in, lol...


----------



## UntilThen

I'm well past the 100 hours mark. Sounds most linear and soothing to me. Musical is the word. EL3N continues to impress me after more than one month of daily listening.

Well all my 3 headphones (T1, HD650 and HE560) sounds good with 6xEL3N.

I should stop promoting it...


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi aqsw.
> 
> There's something amiss somewhere, mon ami...you should be getting _loads_ of bass, lol - too much for some in the early days before it settles down!! :wink_face: ...are they NOS tubes?...(and my own treble took a fair while to really come through....strange! :rolleyes: ).
> 
> ...




They are NOS. I got them from Peter.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> The Fivre 6N7G with Viking horns are indeed very sweet sounding tubes. I have both the horns and brown base which Suuup helped to track down for me.
> 
> Pct in the short time you've been here, your collection of carefully chosen tubes have grown faster than anyone. Now with T1 in your possession, you're with Hillary and Tenzing.


 
 You are very kind. Actually, the achievement of which I am most proud is I have not (yet) dropped and broken a single tube on the hardwood floor under my desk ))))


----------



## UntilThen

You better touch wood 

I'm better at changing tubes than changing light bulbs in the house.


----------



## Audict123

Just a brief hello to the established Elise elite from a new Elise owner. Well, not exactly - I paid for it but don't physically own it yet... Should arrive 2nd half of March. Practicing patience...
  
 In the meantime I spend time and money on tube hunting. That's your fault guys (in paricular Hypnos1, Untilthen, Jazzvinyl, hope I don't forget to honour/blame anyone..). The descriptions of sonic Nirvana in this thread first made me decide to buy the Elise, and now quite some tubes you seem to love the most. Thanks for your exploratory work!
  
 Currently I own a Figaro 332s (Darkvoice 3322's twin brother) and Senn HD600/650's. Its the amp that got me into tubes. My expectations are high for the Elise: bigger tubes, bigger sound, bigger fun tube rolling.


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome arie and we're no elites lol. We're your friendly neighborhood guys.

You won't be disappointed with Elise although from what I've read the 332 is a capable tube amp too. So it will be interesting to hear your impressions when you get Elise.

I almost got a La Figaro 339 but decided on Elise instead. It's a decision I've never regretted.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  




  
 Taut this funny....


----------



## UntilThen

That's a good one Mordy lol.


----------



## Audict123

I've been


untilthen said:


> Welcome arie and we're no elites lol. We're your friendly neighborhood guys.
> 
> You won't be disappointed with Elise although from what I've read the 332 is a capable tube amp too. So it will be interesting to hear your impressions when you get Elise.
> 
> I almost got a La Figaro 339 but decided on Elise instead. It's a decision I've never regretted.


 
  
 Thanks UntilThen. Will do!
  
 I seriously looked at the 339 too, but I am not a fan of the double volume control and I prefer the beautiful simple lines of the Ellise. That's my eyes talking... never heard both amps!


----------



## UntilThen

Hd600 and Hd650 will suit Elise to a T. I really think Hd650 sounds amazing with Elise and assortment of tubes in particular my fav now 6xEL3N. 

Elise is cool with 6 el3n..... how good is that.

Try HD650 with C3g and any of the recommended power tubes. If you are adventurous try 2xFdd20 with external power supply too.


----------



## Audict123

Still looking for those - won't go for 6 to start with. Like me they are made in Holland . The PTT logo on these tubes is actually from our (former) national Post, Telegraph and Telephone company. No longer exists, the tubes still do!


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> Try HD650 with C3g and any of the recommended power tubes. If you are adventurous try 2xFdd20 with external power supply too.


 
  
 Confession time:
 2x FDD20 - check
 2x C3G/s - check
 And then some ... Hey, I did my homework reading this massive thread!
 Lots on the way, only the C3G/s are in the house already.
  
 The downside of all of this is all the adapters I'll have to buy... Are there any bad ones to avoid?


----------



## Audict123

The above is of course shameless copycat behaviour. The only thing I can add later to this forum is a report on these new (to this forum) tubes:

  
  
  
  
 (image missing)
 (image missing)
 The one on the left is the known Fivre 6N7G (only have one so far), the ones to the right are Fivre 6N7GT. They are unlike the Fivre GT's I have seen elsewhere. Maybe someone recognizes this structure?  We'll see if they are any good ...


----------



## Oskari

audict123 said:


> Still looking for those - won't go for 6 to start with. Like me they are made in Holland . The PTT logo on these tubes is actually from our (former) national Post, Telegraph and Telephone company. No longer exists, the tubes still do!




Did UT already buy all of Peter's new stock? :rolleyes:

See http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/nostubes/nos-tubes-main-page.htm.

Steenderen might even be local to you...


----------



## Audict123

Thanks Oskari, didn't know that... Yes, nearby, my own small country.. Will get myself  a second one as I just pulled the trigger on one NOS on our local Ebay for 11 euro's... Are the ones Peter sells the exact same as I posted above, with the PTT logo?


----------



## Audict123

By the way - I noticed you are a real tube collector Osari. Do you recognize the GT shape Fivre tubes in my post above? the plate structure is odd, as the ribs on them don't seem rounded bit squared. Here's another pic from another angle.


----------



## Oskari

audict123 said:


> Are the ones Peter sells the exact same as I posted above, with the PTT logo?




That's what I got from his previous stock but can't vouch for his new stock. You must ask him. I don't think the "PTT" label makes any difference, though.


----------



## Audict123

No, I'm sure the label doesn't affect sound, I just that I have a kind of childhood sentiment with that PTT logo (as a child, all postoffices were PTT offices)


----------



## Oskari

audict123 said:


> By the way - I noticed you are a real tube collector Osari. Do you recognize the GT shape Fivre tubes in my post above? the plate structure is odd, as the ribs on them don't seem rounded bit squared.




Do these look similar to you?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6N7GT-FIVRE-NOS-ITALY-Tube-Valvula-Lampe-TSF-Rohre-Valvola-/401004073587

Quite difficult to say based on photos.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Just a brief hello to the established Elise elite from a new Elise owner. Well, not exactly - I paid for it but don't physically own it yet... Should arrive 2nd half of March. Practicing patience...
> 
> In the meantime I spend time and money on tube hunting. That's your fault guys (in paricular Hypnos1, Untilthen, Jazzvinyl, hope I don't forget to honour/blame anyone..). The descriptions of sonic Nirvana in this thread first made me decide to buy the Elise, and now quite some tubes you seem to love the most. Thanks for your exploratory work!
> 
> Currently I own a Figaro 332s (Darkvoice 3322's twin brother) and Senn HD600/650's. Its the amp that got me into tubes. My expectations are high for the Elise: bigger tubes, bigger sound, bigger fun tube rolling.


 
  
 Welcome arie123...glad you've joined us - _and_ that you've let us know! (There appear to still be some lucky owners - or soon-to-be - who are remaining secret...please introduce yourselves...we don't bite (well, _hard_ anyway!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Sounds like you have an enterprising spirit - you're in for some real fun, as well as some really good sound from whatever tubes you try. Elise is remarkably versatile, and can cater to pretty well ALL tastes with ease (as you will have gathered already, from the sound of it!). You have already sussed our best tubes, but of course everyone has their favourites...I'm sure you will find amongst them a sound that will indeed bring your own sonic nirvana - and fairly quickly, I suspect...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...   Roll on March!...


----------



## Audict123

Yes, you are right... The plates really look alike... At least those are Fivre's too.


----------



## Audict123

Thanks Hypnos1. Lots of friendly neighbours here. No biting sofar, even from the landlord of the thread     When I stumbled on the Elise I immediately realised this was the new tube amp I was looking for. I wanted room to experiment with both tube rolling and (at a later stage) headphone pairing. I tube rolled with my preamp (ECC88 based) and the Figaro 332s, but the choices are much narrower in both cases.
  
 At first I thought I'd buy only a few recommended driver tubes, check the sound signature and decide where to head from there. But soon I found myself wanting to order all relevant ones. In some cases I felt it was wiser to be fast than sorry later. E.g., I seem to have bought the last pair of Visseaux 6N7G from Silvano in Italy. As he is also the main seller of the FDD20, I thought I'd better order both in one go. Yes, I'm diving in head first...


----------



## Audict123

By the way: I've been looking for Chatham 6AS7G tubes for some time now but that proves hard/expensive. Been eyeing this
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-of-Two-Tung-Sol-Chatham-6AS7-G-TUBE-Test-Okay-w-Heathkit-Tube-Tester-/391376170224?hash=item5b1fd66cf0:g:47QAAOSwLnlWo9Tv
 Cheap at first sight, but the price doubles before it reaches me over the pond. The risk that they are not OK therefore holds me back.
  
 If anyone has advice on where to get some NOS at a fair price, please let me know. Same holds for 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

Arie, it is hard to find NOS 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G now. Much less at a fair price. That pair you link seems alright to me but one can never tell by just the looks. I even have NOS that doesn't work and got replaced.
  
 I had initially wanted to sell off some of my prized tubes but I've now decided not to. My main aim in getting all these tubes is to give me a wide range of tones to choose from as the mood dictates. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After a while, you know how a tube sound. So when someone says they have on FDD20 with Mullard 6080 and that it sounded awesome with their T1, you have a very good idea what he is talking about. 
  
 Your choice of FDD20 and C3G is a very good start. Very different sound signature. Those Fivre 6N7G and GT are also worth collecting. As for power tubes, I've been recommending these:-
  
 Tung Sol 5998
 Chatham 6AS7G
 Mullard 6080
 GE 6AS7GA
 6BL7GT or GTA
 Multiple EL3N
  
 These are of varying costs and some of them are easily obtained. Just like the driver tubes, each of these power tubes have their own sound signature. Spend enough time with them and you'll know their sound well. So if you mix and match your drivers with your powers, you'll have a vast selection of tones to choose from. That's one big advantage of getting a tube amp like Elise.
  
 As for adaptors, I got mine mostly from Mrs XuLing. She's a friendly and helpful seller and has obliged willingly to produce our specific adapter requests when call upon. All my adapters works without problems. Whether brass or bakelite ones. In fact she told me that the brass ones will discolour after several months. So take your pick. 
  
 Some day, some day.... I'll return to where it all began ...6sn7 and 6as7 ... no adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy exploring. You can read all the descriptions about tube sound but you really need to hear them yourself to get a good idea. This is where I urge everyone to go on the road of discovery for themselves.


----------



## hpamdr

Welcome abroad arie123 !
  
 My 2cents :
 You will discover that Elise is really a good amplifier very versatile and where most of the tube sound good. HD600/650 pair wonderfully with Elise but is sensible to bass and need neutral combination to give you the most !.
  
 As you have plenty of time before receiving your Elise take time to read the original thread of Elise :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/732875/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998
 Also about the tubes that the amp was designed for : 6SN7 / 6AS7G
  
  
  
 Take your time and probably the safiest path is first to wait ! If you really cannot, get some tube that do not need adapters. (6080GEC. 6080Mullard or sometimes you can get Phillips tube made by Mullard in england... (Specialy in Neherland) )
 5998 tubes are good and full of bass but does not pair with all tubes as the spec is not the same as a standard 6AS7G.
  
 Once you have the amp take time to burn it and enjoy ! Then start to collect tubes and chase audio nirvana.
  
 You can get very good listening even with not so expensive tube like mullard 6080 and old rusian 6H8C  or VT-231 Sylvania, KenRad,
  
 With adapter on the driver, you can give a look to European 6N7G/GT but the russian build with flying saucer does not sound nice and are rebranded by many manufacturer.
 ECC31 is really a tube to listen also when coupled with same league power tube. (GEC 6AS7G or 6080`)
  
 After you have to decide if you want to go with external heater to put FDD20 or go above the safe 6.8 amps ...


----------



## UntilThen

Very good hpamdr but that's definitely worth more than 2 cents.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Did UT already buy all of Peter's new stock?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No I left 6 for you Oskari.


----------



## UntilThen

These are sitting in my drawer not getting that much air time these days. Pair of Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and single for 2031. They are lovely sounding tubes as some of you have already heard them. Some day I'll have to rotate them again.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> No I left 6 for you Oskari.


 
  
 Very thoughtful of you.


----------



## UntilThen

Because of you Oskari, I got all these tubes in the spring and summer of 2015.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Because of you Oskari, I got all these tubes in the spring and summer of 2015.


 
  
 You should send them to me for "storage".


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> You should send them to me for "storage".


 

 I'll send you a photo instead.


----------



## UntilThen

My 1st love and still sounding good. Compared to Elise, there's less clarity and details, especially at the top end but the bass seems more layered, less control and more bloom. Running with a Tung Sol 5998 and Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears, the DV336se is indeed a fun tube amp and quite enjoyable. Here it drives the T1 600 ohms very well. Volume is only at 10am.
  

  
 Then I swapped back immediately to Elise and   ......   are you kidding me ???   This is audio nirvana, it's cloud 99 and in a galaxy far far away.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello @mordy and @UntilThen 
  
 I find it a bit disconcerting that some of you are reporting the Elise performs better as a preamp. Makes me wonder if the amp stage of the Elise is sub-par? I mean I don't expect it to be the most superior amp in the world because I know there are mightier amps out there. But with all this high praise for the Elise and now reports of it working better as a preamp make me wonder how good its' amp stage is?
  
 My extensive experiments chaining other amps together (headphone out and line-out) has shown me that often the end result is a larger soundstage and more micro-details brought out. But upon further listening I often (_but not always_) discovered that the single amp sounded better - while the other way may have sounded better at first, I noticed the likes of a sub-bass roll off, bloated soundstage, artificially boosted clarity, etc. that took away from the musicality. So I would be interested if either of you would give a more critical comparison between the two setups - with a variety of music (rock, jazz, pop, etc.) and see if maybe there really is anything amiss with Elise as a preamp or not? Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Hello @mordy and @UntilThen
> 
> I find it a bit disconcerting that some of you are reporting the Elise performs better as a preamp. Makes me wonder if the amp stage of the Elise is sub-par? I mean I don't expect it to be the most superior amp in the world because I know there are mightier amps out there. But with all this high praise for the Elise and now reports of it working better as a preamp make me wonder how good its' amp stage is?
> 
> My extensive experiments chaining other amps together (headphone out and line-out) has shown me that often the end result is a larger soundstage and more micro-details brought out. But upon further listening I often (_but not always_) discovered that the single amp sounded better - while the other way may have sounded better at first, I noticed the likes of a sub-bass roll off, bloated soundstage, artificially boosted clarity, etc. that took away from the musicality. So I would be interested if either of you would give a more critical comparison between the two setups - with a variety of music (rock, jazz, pop, etc.) and see if maybe there really is anything amiss with Elise as a preamp or not? Thanks


 
 DL, you're absolutely right. I can confirm that now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's a pseudo larger soundstage and more texture but the sharpness and bite is missing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Less fidelity so to speak but the fun factor is there. You can enjoy it anyway you want but Elise is primarily build first as a headphone tube amp and that's where her strength is. I don't run Elise as a preamp often. Only when it's really hot and I need to move to the lounge for aircon comfort. Bottom line is it performs very well as a preamp too.
  
 So have no fear, as a headphone tube amp, she's all you need. Wonder Woman remember? Or is it Super Girl? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps.. I didn't say it performs better as a preamp. I say it performs well as a preamp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 pss... I'm talking about inserting the headphone jack into Elise or the receiver. Listening to speakers are a different ballgame. It's a different experience. You cannot compare headphone vs speakers listening. Both have merits and enjoyment factors. Headphone listening has intimacy and superb micro details especially with a revealing HP like the T1 or HD800. Whereas you cannot beat the soundstage and sense of realism with speakers. *It's a full on sound that will move not just you but your house as well !!! *


----------



## DecentLevi

Great, thanks for that. I was just wondering if it was just the 'new toy syndrome' or not with the Elise as a pre-amp, just like some of my experiences; and when you had run the Elise with the Darkvoice - often it seems better at first but upon further comparison there were _a few_ strengths, but still the single amp setup had a better overall sound. Not always of course - numerous critical listens of my (other) tube amp as a buffer via line-out to other amps including an electrostat one have proven without a doubt that, at least in this case, two amps is better than one. Double amping is just something I'm trying to get away from though, as I'm sure many others would be too.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Great, thanks for that. I was just wondering if it was just the 'new toy syndrome' or not with the Elise as a pre-amp, just like some of my experiences; and when you had run the Elise with the Darkvoice - often it seems better at first but upon further comparison there were _a few_ strengths, but still the single amp setup had a better overall sound. Not always of course - numerous critical listens of my (other) tube amp as a buffer via line-out to other amps including an electrostat one have proven without a doubt that, at least in this case, two amps is better than one. Double amping is just something I'm trying to get away from though, as I'm sure many others would be too.


 

 Correct. Simple setup is all you need. A good tube amp needs no further help. Do you think Super Girl needs help? No way. She doesn't even need Superman. Just saying....


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 I have not stated that the Elise sounds better as a preamp. The reason I describe my listening experiences using the Elise as a preamp is, well, because 99.9% of my listening is by using it as a preamp.
  
 I do not like wearing my headphones for any extended time, and I feel that my speakers have better resolution and sound than my headphones (Yamaha MT-220).
  
 Possibly I may change my mind if I bought the T1 headphones, but I use my headphones so rarely that it does not warrant the expense to me.
  
 I'm afraid that I would not be able to give you a comparison between speaker and headphone listening with different kinds of music. Firstly, I barely use headphones, and secondly, my musical taste is locked in since birth to classic 20's jazz and almost nothing else.
  
 IMHO the Elise is a superlative product that excels both as a preamp and as a headphone amp. It has the ability to sound good with any tube complement, and to reach truly great levels with the tube combinations we have discovered on this forum.
  
 As I understand it, you have ordered one, and I am looking forward to hear about your experiences when it arrives.
  
 The liveliness and engagement of the Elise:
  
 Memphis Smackdown with Meredith Axelrod (g, jug) and Mayumi Urgino (fiddle):
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGjtFD1_Io


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## DecentLevi

One more post for now... this was too much to keep to myself. Per an email exchange with Lukasz today
_(slightly re-worded but meaning 100% unchanged to avoid copying without permission)_
  
 regarding unconventional setups like using the same tubes as driver and powers, etc....
 The Elise is a great vehicle for tube rolling, however as the manufacture we recommend more conservative setups as described in the user manual.
  
 There has been an interest in a balanced version of the Elise, but for 2016 at least we're too busy trying to keep up with the demand for the current Elise.


----------



## DecentLevi

That's great, Mordy, thanks FYI. I was under the impression from your posts that you preferred the Elise only as pre-amp duty to another headphone amp - turns out that was to power speakers, so there was nothing against its' amp stage


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> One more post for now... this was too much to keep to myself. Per an email exchange with Lukasz today
> _(slightly re-worded but meaning 100% unchanged to avoid copying without permission)_
> 
> regarding unconventional setups like using the same tubes as driver and powers, etc....
> ...


 
 True as a manufacturer they have to state their position. If you stick strictly to user manual, that precludes a lot of favourite tubes we're using, such as C3G, ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20, EL3N. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However H1 and many others have been running those tubes for more than one year. 
  
 Balanced might appeal to some but I think for Mk2 they need to offer more than just a balanced version. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The problem is I don't feel anything is lacking at the moment.


----------



## UntilThen

Time to roll amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2 setups:-
  
 Audirvana Plus iMac > Aune T1 > Darkvoice 336se > HD650 / T1  (Tubes - Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears / Tung Sol 5998)
  
 JRiver PC > NAD d1050 > Elise > HD650 / T1  (Tubes - Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top / Tung Sol 5998)
  
 I can plug my headphones into any of Aune T1, Darkvoice 336se, Elise or NAD d1050 for the same song. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's scary to realise how 'enjoyable' the DV336se sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm really sold on tube amp sound.


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> Arie, it is hard to find NOS 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G now. Much less at a fair price. That pair you link seems alright to me but one can never tell by just the looks. I even have NOS that doesn't work and got replaced.
> 
> I had initially wanted to sell off some of my prized tubes but I've now decided not to. My main aim in getting all these tubes is to give me a wide range of tones to choose from as the mood dictates.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


hpamdr said:


> Welcome abroad arie123 !
> 
> My 2cents :
> You will discover that Elise is really a good amplifier very versatile and where most of the tube sound good. HD600/650 pair wonderfully with Elise but is sensible to bass and need neutral combination to give you the most !.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the advice guys. You are right, perhaps I should not yet cough up the cash for the expensive 5998's yet, as I don't know if that is the 'sound direction' I want to go. They may make the bass too strong with hd650.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. You are right, perhaps I should not yet cough up the cash for the expensive 5998's yet, as I don't know if that is the 'sound direction' I want to go. They may make the bass too strong with hd650.


 

 Taking your time is good but there's a misconception that 5998 is a bass machine. It is not the only thing it does well. You'll find a lot of fans of 5998 in Bottlehead Crack forum. Read some of the better reviews of 5998. You'll get a better idea.
  
 My picture above shows both tube amps with 5998 and I'm listening with both HD650 and T1. Pink Floyd has never sounded so good. I guess depends also on what you listen to. It is extremely good with vocals too. I enjoy listening to Holly Cole with it. Of course there are other tubes, most cheaper than 5998. There are also more expensive ones. 
  
 I know LR love using EL3N and 5998 with his HD600 on classical and jazz. So again depends on ears and individuals. 
  
 This was done sometime ago but a pretty accurate review I'd say.
 http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi...just further confirmation of @mordy's and @UntilThen's comments on Elise as pre-amp - she does wonders for my Dynaudios when feeding my Vincent SV121 integrated SS amp. And yeah....no need _whatsoever_ to 'daisy chain' her, lol - she's pure _HEAVEN_ all by herself (as UT says...).   CHEERS!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And as UT also mentioned, I (and others) have been running 'unconventional' tube set-ups for a _very_ long while now, with no obvious ill effects...but of course no manufacturer can officially endorse - and therefore guarantee - any deviations from listed recommendations.
  
 As I mentioned a while ago, my only reservations now are with tubes that generate temperatures well above what 'stock' produces. Although the transformer and other components - being of a high quality - can be stressed somewhat further, there's no real knowing just how _much_ further before problems may occur...especially in the long term. And so my own personal preference - and advice to others - is to keep *as cool as possible*_*, lol*_








...then "LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!!"...


----------



## pctazhp

If you have an hour and half to waste and want to travel down audio memory lane and maybe learn something from one of the industry giants (in my opinion), you might want to check out this video. The first 20 minutes is mainly just a promotion for Parasound. The meat starts after that.
  
 I had the honor to meet John Curl several times and developed an on-line relationship with him. I loved to challenge many of his views and he was always very generous with his time, and I learned a lot from him. The last amp of my audiophile days was his Parasound - Halo A21 Two-Channel Amplifier and it was the best sounding amp I ever owned - even if it was solid state.


----------



## pctazhp

audict123 said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. You are right, perhaps I should not yet cough up the cash for the expensive 5998's yet, as I don't know if that is the 'sound direction' I want to go. They may make the bass too strong with hd650.


 
 Welcome to the thread arie123. You are going to love your Elise. I personally guaranty it )))
  
 It's a difficult decision as to when, if ever, to start buying different tubes. The Elise with stock tubes is very good. With smart choices, it can be made better. Unfortunately, it seems to me that many of the top rated tubes discussed here are becoming scarce and very expensive. I fear that the longer you wait the less options you will have. I bought a lot of tubes before my Elise arrived. I probably won't use most of them very much, but I don't regret buying them. By trying different combinations, it just helps me fine tune my own preferences.
  
 I may be the only member of the thread who is not very excited by the 5998 tube. Maybe my pair is just not very good. 
  
 My favorite power tube is the EL3N - both with my T1s and HD700s. It is also my favorite driver. And the amp runs cool with that combination - perhaps because of the marshmallow adapters. I will be ordering the dual adapters for the power position, as I now own 3 sets of EL3Ns. But regardless, of which way you go, I'm sure you will be one of our group of very happy campers ))))


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> Welcome to the thread arie123. You are going to love your Elise. I personally guaranty it )))
> 
> It's a difficult decision as to when, if ever, to start buying different tubes. The Elise with stock tubes is very good. With smart choices, it can be made better. Unfortunately, it seems to me that many of the top rated tubes discussed here are becoming scarce and very expensive. I fear that the longer you wait the less options you will have. I bought a lot of tubes before my Elise arrived. I probably won't use most of them very much, but I don't regret buying them. By trying different combinations, it just helps me fine tune my own preferences.
> 
> ...


 
 You are not the only member. Mine were not very good with my amp either. Ended up selling them on ebay. Got $99.00 for them. The guy that bought them loves them.


----------



## pctazhp

BTW, on the video John Curl mentions Dave Wilson and Wilson Audio. I never owned one of Dave's speaker systems. But a friend of mine in Phoenix bought one of Dave's early TOTL speaker systems for the out-of-sight, Monopoly money amounts of $80,00 or maybe even a lot more.
  
 Dave personally came to Phoenix and spent 2 or 3 days at his home setting up and tuning the system. I was present for the entire affair. My friend owned one of the most impressive vinyl collections probably ever assembled. It was hands down the finest system I ever heard.
  
 Dave is a true gentleman and certainly one of the other "giants".


----------



## pctazhp

aqsw said:


> You are not the only member. Mine were not very good with my amp either. Ended up selling them on ebay. Got $99.00 for them. The guy that bought them loves them.


 
 Well it's a little reassuring I'm not the only one. Maybe I will sell my pair some day.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Well it's a little reassuring I'm not the only one. Maybe I will sell my pair some day.


 
  
 Well, pct....sell 'em...plus the mother-in-law (or equivalent!), and get the GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834s - never come across _anyone_ who didn't like them, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










....


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 The closest I got to Wilson Audio Specialties is when in the 90's I bough a three CD set called Ragtime Razzmatazz played on a specially restored 1918 Kroeger piano by Mark Wetch. It was a special Wilson Audiophile recording, and it is said that that the company tested it's new speakers with these recordings in those days. It appears that these recordings first came out on LPs.
  
 To my surprise these three CDs fetch some $120 today for a set and are quite rare.
  
 Here is one LP available on YouTube:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5YhWLtyYN0


----------



## UntilThen

On a humphrey system, this is simply stunning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mazda 6N7G are similar to Visseaux 6N7G. In fact they are identical.
  
 Enjoy


----------



## vince741

There is so much activity here, it's hard to keep up 
  
@UntilThen: did I miss your comparison of 6xEL3N vs 2x (EL3N + 5998)? Can't seem to find a direct versus.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> There is so much activity here, it's hard to keep up
> 
> @UntilThen: did I miss your comparison of 6xEL3N vs 2x (EL3N + 5998)? Can't seem to find a direct versus.


 

 Vince, I stop publishing review / comparisons of tubes because I like them all. Having said that I do have a preference having EL3N in the drivers seat. It's like asking me what seasons I prefer. Fact is I love them all. Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter of discontent. I love them all. I wouldn't do without any of them. 
  
 The colours of the rainbow. Which do I prefer? I like them combined. I once drove through a rainbow and my black car became rainbow in colour. Freaks me out. Travelling at 110kph, my car changes colour. The end of the rainbow was right smack on the highway as I passed through. True story. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For me, getting involve with a tube amp means having multiple tubes combo. It will give you different tones as your mood swings.


----------



## vince741

Point taken, multiple combination can match your mood of the moment but for me it's why you are reaching for this combo or this one that is interesting. Everyone will hear and like different things, some people might like thick mid some might like a huge soundstage and so on.
  
 But when you see the price of 4 x EL3N + double adapter or 2x 5998, it's a fair bit of money for each combo. I think not everyone can afford to have every tube and if someone already know his tuning preference, it could be nice to go for a potential "main" combo.
  
 That being said, I don't have my Elise yet and already have 2 EL3N, 2 Chatham 5998, 2 TungSol 6080 and 2 GE 6AS7GA


----------



## UntilThen

Well #hypnos1 I'm thankful for coming to Elise thread both in the original and this thread. A lot of tubes were 'discovered' by others (particularly you) but I tried it and found them to sound really good. I am also fortunate in that none of my tubes hum, including adapters. I wouldn't have been so adventurous if I didn't come here. Plus as everyone noted, it's the people we meet along the way as well. Suddenly, it's not just tubes, headphones, DACs, cables but real people. 
  
 Cheers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps... I'm eagerly awaiting new Elise owners impressions. @supersonic395 @B-60 @vince741 @nojdrof @DecentLevi  who else?   Hurry up will ya?


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Point taken, multiple combination can match your mood of the moment but for me it's why you are reaching for this combo or this one that is interesting. Everyone will hear and like different things, some people might like thick mid some might like a huge soundstage and so on.
> 
> But when you see the price of 4 x EL3N + double adapter or 2x 5998, it's a fair bit of money for each combo. I think not everyone can afford to have every tube and if someone already know his tuning preference, it could be nice to go for a potential "main" combo.
> 
> That being said, I don't have my Elise yet and already have 2 EL3N, 2 Chatham 5998, 2 TungSol 6080 and 2 GE 6AS7GA


 

 Ok, for you I'll post an impression of 6xEL3N, EL3N and 5998. I'll have to spend a couple of days collecting my thoughts. One of the hardest task is describing how a tube or combination sounds. You have to factor in your source, DAC and headphone. In other words, your setup. Then you do multiple tubes swapping like crazy. You play one single song over and over again until you can sing it by hard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's when it ruins everything lol... your singing I mean.
  
 Vince, you've very good tubes already I can assure you.


----------



## vince741

Thank you, it doesn't have to be a really meticulous work, even a two-liner could do. It's more to have a general idea.
 Anyway, thanks for your dedication


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Thank you, it doesn't have to be a really meticulous work, even a two-liner could do. It's more to have a general idea.
> Anyway, thanks for your dedication


 

 Me doing a two-liner? Never. I write 'War and Peace'. You will be asleep by page 20. How many pages is War and Peace?


----------



## vince741

Around 1600 in French.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Well, pct....sell 'em...plus the mother-in-law (or equivalent!), and get the GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834s - never come across _anyone_ who didn't like them, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think I will discuss your post with my wife)))
  
 You have never come across anyone who didn't like the GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834s. I have never come across a pair for sale. Hmmmm. I prefer your experience to mine


----------



## UntilThen

There are NOS GEC 6AS7G for sale @pctazhp if your wallet needs some exercise. 
  
 Ho ho ho.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> There are NOS GEC 6AS7G for sale @pctazhp if your wallet needs some exercise.
> 
> Ho ho ho.


 
 You are EVIL!!! But I'll bite. Where????? ))))


----------



## mordy

Hi vince741,
  
 May I suggest to add the 6BL7 to your tube stash - it will not break the bank. As long as your total tube current draw is less than 6.5A or so, it is plug and play.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll PM you in case they disappear faster than a typhoon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just when I am settling down to do a comparison of 6xEL3N and EL3N / 5998, these came:-
  
 They seem very well made. PCB board and soldered well. The guide pin is facing the right way so no need to adjust. Also I got the bakelite version which is cheaper and according to Mrs Xu Ling, doesn't discolour after 3 months.
  
 So Vince, you'll have to wait while I incorporate 4x6SN7 and 4x6BL7 using 2x6N23P as drivers into the comparison. So see you when I'm done with 'War and Peace' which is next year? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully in a weeks time.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Here is a guy in Canada that has more than 10 available - $210 each.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-CV2523-A1834-A-1834-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/121881779444?hash=item1c60b85cf4:g:6egAAOSwa-dWksl9


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Here is a guy in Canada that has more than 10 available - $210 each.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-CV2523-A1834-A-1834-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/121881779444?hash=item1c60b85cf4:g:6egAAOSwa-dWksl9


 

 Thank you Mordy for telling him. Saves me from typing.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Don't buy all @pctazhp  please save 2 for me ho ho ho.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Here is a guy in Canada that has more than 10 available - $210 each.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-CV2523-A1834-A-1834-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/121881779444?hash=item1c60b85cf4:g:6egAAOSwa-dWksl9


 
 Very interesting. Price isn't quite as bad as I feared. Sure wish I had that $250 I paid for my 5998s back in my pocket!!!
  
 I'll have to obsess on this for a while ))))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Very interesting. Price isn't quite as bad as I feared. Sure wish I had that $250 I paid for my 5998s back in my pocket!!!
> 
> I'll have to obsess on this for a while ))))


 

 A pair is going to cost you $400. Now if you feel charitable you can buy a pair and send it my way.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> So Vince, you'll have to wait while I incorporate 4x6SN7 and 4x6BL7 using 2x6N23P as drivers into the comparison. So see you when I'm done with 'War and Peace' which is next year?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow. We have gone from Sir Edmund Hillary to Leo Tolstoy!!!! Mind boggling ))))


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> A pair is going to cost you $400. Now if you feel charitable you can buy a pair and send it my way.


 
 Of course. It's the least I could do for you


----------



## vince741

mordy said:


> Hi vince741,
> 
> May I suggest to add the 6BL7 to your tube stash - it will not break the bank. As long as your total tube current draw is less than 6.5A or so, it is plug and play.


 
  


untilthen said:


> So Vince, you'll have to wait while I incorporate 4x6SN7 and 4x6BL7 using 2x6N23P as drivers into the comparison. So see you when I'm done with 'War and Peace' which is next year?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I like how these two comments followed each other 
 It's plug and play but hey, there is still an adapter if you like more haha.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> I like how these two comments followed each other
> It's plug and play but hey, there is still an adapter if you like more haha.


 

 No worries Vince. We look after you. Make sure you spend your money wisely.


----------



## UntilThen

Okie dokie keep your fingers and toes crossed for me that this doesn't go up like the 4th of July.


----------



## UntilThen

Hmmm light up alright but loud hum ???
  
 Switch to a pair of RCA 6AS7GA and hum is gone. So definitely hum is from the 4x6BL7. However I've tested those tubes in pairs and they have no hum.


----------



## UntilThen

Swap to 2x6N23P with 4x6SN7 and it's playing nicely with Whitney Houston 'I' Will Always Love You'.... and I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 No hum and sounding good LOL. Loud at 10am. Sound is clear, detail, bass a bit lean but quite enjoyable. 
  
 Oh COMEON 4x6BL7 ...work for me !!!
  
*Edit :-* Maybe I've exceeded the 5A of the stock power? 4x6BL7 = 6A. ???
  
 It's not the tubes. I've tested them in pairs and they are ok. It's not the adapters. So.... ???
  
 Wow I can see 6x6SN7 (Total 3.6A) sounding real nice. It's sounding good now. Bass is coming on.
  

  
 Elise is cold in the above combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Literally cold.
  
 Ok trying 4x6BL7 again.....


----------



## UntilThen

Hum is still there but I managed to go through 2 songs. Michael Jackson 'Billie Jean' and a Japanese pop love song 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's a shame there's hum because the bass is solid and vocals clear. On Billie Jean the tom-toms and bass drums are impactful. 
  
 Well I don't want to risk playing with that moderately loud hum. It's the first time a tube(s) hum on me but the songs sounded good.
  
 Those of you who decide to go with external power supply, I can see potentials there.
  
 Oh btw I tested with both T1 and HD650.
  
 I'm going to explore more with 6x6SN7.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Oh COMEON 4x6BL7 ...work for me !!!
> 
> *Edit :-* Maybe I've exceeded the 5A of the stock power? 4x6BL7 = 6A. ???


 
  
 The stock combined is 6.2 A, though.
  


untilthen said:


> It's not the tubes. I've tested them in pairs and they are ok. It's not the adapters. So.... ???


 
  




  


untilthen said:


> Wow I can see 6x6SN7 (Total 3.6A) sounding real nice. It's sounding good now. Bass is coming on.


 
  
 You can certainly try that.
  


untilthen said:


> Ok trying 4x6BL7 again.....


 
  
 Perhaps you could try pairing them differently…


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> The stock combined is 6.2 A, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I mean stock power tubes of 2x6AS7 is 5A. I'm 'guessing' the 4x6BL7 of 6A is too much for the stock power.
  
 I've swap the 6BL7 around. Have you any suggestions on pairing them differently? Specifics please.


----------



## UntilThen

Took a picture of the underside just to make sure nothing is burn LOL. Looks good..healthy colour and no smell LOL. 
  
 I'm safe !!!


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I mean stock power tubes of 2x6AS7 is 5A. I'm 'guessing' the 4x6BL7 of 6A is too much for the stock power.
> 
> I've swap the 6BL7 around. Have you any suggestions on pairing them differently? Specifics please.


 
  
 There should only be a total limit.
  
 Desperate testing/guesswork. Swap one tube in the left adapter with one tube in the right adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> There should only be a total limit.
> 
> Desperate testing/guesswork. Swap one tube in the left adapter with one tube in the right adapter.


 

 Ok let me try russian roulette.


----------



## Oskari

Then there's the question are the 6BL7 pins clean. Perhaps they don't make the best of contacts in the adapter sockets… but you know all this.


----------



## UntilThen

No go. I swap them in every possible 4 ways but still hum as loud. I use Deoxit to clean the pins of all 4 tubes again. I separately tested each pair of 6BL7 with 2x6N23P and they are without hum. 2x6BL7 as power tubes did sound pretty good already. In the short time I tried with 4x6BL7 I could not detect any noticeable difference (perhaps a more pronounced bass) but it was too short.. 2 songs. I'm sure there would be benefit in running with 4.
  
 Anyway it's on to explore more with 6x6SN7. Or 2xEL3N with 4x6SN7 or whatever combinations. 6SN7 are only 0.6A each so there's a lot of combo to try lol.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Reads like a detective story, eh?
  
 The plot thickens...
  
 I think that JV ran 4 6BL7 tubes without hum, but he had external power for his drivers.
  
 Maybe you could put in the FDD20 with external power and see if the hum disappears?


----------



## UntilThen

6x6SN7 - initial impressions.
  
 Depth and height of soundstage and cavernous spatial impression. I didn't mention width because width has always been there for me with the T1 and having 4xpowers did not seem to add that much extra to it. Sense of texture and layers in the musical space. Details are there and very clear. it's holographic and 3D. This is the sensation I get with 6xEL3N.
  
 There's less 'fullness' compared to 6xEL3N. It's a more clinical presentation. Certainly has some appeal. I can see myself exploring this soundscape in addition to the ones I know of. 
  
 That's 1st impressions after several songs. Almost 1.5 hours of listening.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Reads like a detective story, eh?
> 
> ...


 
 Brilliant Mordy. That's a good suggestion. I'll try that now.


----------



## mordy

I seem to remember that a certain former member of the forum always complained that the 6DJ8 (6N23) family caused hum in his amp.


----------



## mordy

Waiting with abated breath....


----------



## UntilThen

Yo Mordy, it's not the 6N23P because that worked fine with 2x6N23P and 4x6SN7.
  
 Alright I have narrowed it down to one pair of 6BL7 not being up to scratch. Now with 2xFDD20 as drivers, the hum appears on the left side only. So I swap the pair of 6BL7s around and now the hum is on the right side. The offending tubes has less glow as well. Strange thing is that when I use that pair alone as 2x6BL7 power tubes it exhibited no problems.
  
 I'm going to order 2 more NOS 6BL7GTA because the sound from 2xFDD20 and 4x6BL7 is ..... shall I say _*very exciting*_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 
  

  
 ps the hum adds some reverb lol. There you go more texture hahaha.


----------



## mordy

At least we know now what the problem is - now comes the wait....


----------



## UntilThen

With 2x6N23P, no matter how I swap the 6BL7 around it's hum on both sides. With 2xFDD20, it's on one side.... strange?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Reads like a detective story, eh?
> 
> ...




I do have a pile of 6BL7's and have encountered problems with two of them. Both of the problem 6BL7's are my "newest" looking ones...and both are Tung Sol.

Also notice that 6BL7's are slow to start up and can make some bizarre noises until they get a good head of steam.

Yesterday, I received 2 1940's Sylvania 6SN7W (true "W" construction) tubes. These tubes are often noted to be THE 6SN7 sonically, and I just had to have a couple. 

I do think they are incredible and mate fantastically with 4 good working 6BL7's to power my SENN 580's with the aftermarket Silver Cables.

I do believe this is MY end game set of tubes for Miss Elise. 

I would encourage anyone with dual 6BL7 adapters to try their best 6SN7's as drivers and connect a 300 (or less) ohm pair of headphones....

To enjoy THE Best Sound that can be wrenched, from the Feliks Audio Elise headphone amplifier. 



.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I seem to remember that a certain former member of the forum always complained that the 6DJ8 (6N23) family caused hum in his amp.




That reminded me of this.




oskari said:


> Perhaps it should be noted that the ECC88/6DJ8 is prone to parasitic oscillation. You might want to read up on that.




Could be related.


----------



## UntilThen

Mix and match... the wonders of Elise.
  
 2x FDD20 drivers with 2x6BL7 and 2x6SN7 powers. This is hum free now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  4.2A  total current draw. Can go with most drivers now. 
  
 Enjoy you've infinite combinations now. Lukasz must be shaking his head seeing all these. With a smile I think.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Lukasz must be shaking his head seeing all these.


----------



## mordy

UT: How's the sound of the latest set-up?
  
 JV: Did you try six 6BL7 yet?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


>


 

 LOL. He became curious as a cat? hahahaha.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> UT: How's the sound of the latest set-up?
> 
> JV: Did you try six 6BL7 yet?


 

 Yo Mordy. It's too early to tell. I've been swapping all kinds of combinations since morning. It's amazing I didn't put in a light bulb. !!!
  
 Heavy on the bass even with FDD20 + 6SN7 + 6BL7. So in the coming days would be fun playing with various driver now that I'm well under the power limit threshold. As with all the extra power tubes combos and that includes EL3N, 6BL7 and 6SN7 and 6SN7+6BL7, there's a perceived heightened sense of extra depth and height to the soundstage and the overall tone is akin to a more tightly fabricated tapestry.
  
 Is it a night and day better difference with the fav combos we've tried? Not IMHO but everyone's view is different. I see it as a very interesting variation and one that is certainly enjoyable.


----------



## pctazhp

OK @UntilThen. You have finally driven me to this:


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> LOL. He became curious as a cat? hahahaha.


 
  
 Or: "What did I just see?"


----------



## UntilThen

Lol pct that video is real funny. I was so caught up with tube rolling I'm now just having lunch outside. This is hard work.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright lunch over it's back to work.
  
 If you're going to use FDD20 then pair it with the sweet tone of 4x6SN7. This is not bass heavy but hit the sweet spot nicely. In fact sounding so good, I think conventional power tubes are about to get neglected. 
  
 I've a very strong feeling that a lot of the exotic drivers will pair very well with 4x6SN7. My volume needs to be up more for this. In fact I  can get to screaming loud at 2pm. Normal listening is at 12noon. 1pm is loud. As usual I'm using T1.
  
 2xFDD20 ; 2xRCA 6SN7GTB coin base and 2xRCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass VT231


----------



## UntilThen

Some of you would have heard of Singlepower MPX3 tube amp. In 2004, it had a big fan base but unfortunately things went bad. However that amp was successful for the tone it exhibit. It uses 3 6SN7s. One as driver, one as left power and the last for right power. 
  
 I've never heard a Singlepower but I'm hearing from Elise now driven by 6x6SN7. It's an amazing tone right there for some jazz pieces or small ensemble. Vocals come through sweetly and clear. It's like a Robin singing. That's a bird not Robin Hood.


----------



## UntilThen

*2xEL3N and 4x6SN7*
  
 This is EL3N signature dish. A tone to soothe your cares away and transport you to Neverland. EL3N is on the warm side of neutral with a linear tone throughout the frequency spectrum. Bring on the HD800 or T1 with perky treble and suddenly you have a headphone that's is as agreeable as it is sweet sounding. You'll forget about audiophile but you'll become a music lover. 
  
 Combine that with the sweet, light and airy tone of 6SN7, it a recipe for success. How do you like your cake? Chocolate or vanilla? All possible here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Volume is back to a comfortable 11am - LOUD. Elise is cool cold ice polar....
  
 Total current draw is 4.2A
  

  
 I can listen to this until Summer's over.


----------



## UntilThen

So what are the advantages of 4 power tubes. From my observations of the various Fours combination, notable traits are:-
  
 Bigger soundstage deeper higher.
 Imaging more precise. 
 Musicians more spread  out - less congestion.
  
 In the mids of all this, vocals take centerstage under the spotlight. Comes through as deserving of a Diva.
  
 Attack, sustain and decay is instant, precise duration and fades off on cue.
  
 Transparency.
 Grandiose texture. Beautiful layers.
 Bass more impactful and with control. Like a live drum solo should sound.
  
 Lastly something I did not expect. There is gain in volume. 
  
  
 Ps...EL3N and 6SN7s sounding so good it's hard to tear myself away but I must move on to explore...
  
 2xRaytheon 7N7 as drivers with 2x6BL7 and 2x6SN7 as power tubes..... next.


----------



## UntilThen

Go ahead and order your dual EL3N and 6BL7 adapters. You'll be more than happy with the outcome. There are so many winning combinations here to make you weep with joy.
  
 If you're not happy with it, collect $10 from @hypnos1 @Oskari @Lorspeaker . If you are happy pay them $10 each.


----------



## Lorspeaker

a song for a $10 contribution


----------



## UntilThen

*2x7N7 as drivers with 2x6BL7GTA and 2xRCA 6SN7GTB coin base*
  
 Both 7N7 and 6SN7 are clear and bright sounding combine with a bass capable 6BL7 and the end result is a bright breezy morning with enough slam to get you out of bed. No shortage of bass and a clear sound. Replace for a warmer 6SN7 if you so wish.
  

  
  
  
*2xEL3N as drivers with 2x6BL7GTA and 2xRCA 6SN7GTB coin base*
  
 Now this is my kind of tone. EL3N linearity combines well with the assorted power tubes. A very pleasing tone. Compared to the above, this is warmer, more organic. So take your pick. Different flavours for Peter, Paul and Mary. I was able to quickly test with T1, HD650 and HE560 and all pass with flying colours. HD650 added the most mid bass and fuller midrange. Very interesting switching headphones at the same time as tube rolling. The combinations are indeed infinite.
  
 So it's a blessing my pair of 6BL7 hums. It make me explore this option which allows me to use more drivers without external power supply. A big bonus. Even this setup total current draw is only 6A which is well under the 6.5A threshold.
  
 Alright enough for today. Will continue tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 ps... these are quick impressions as I tube roll through the possibilities. I'll be spending substantial time with each combination for a detail listen. However 1st impressions of each are very favourable.
  
 Thanks @Lorspeaker for the song. I listen to it with this combo and it's good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps... I have been running a whole day with a short break for lunch and Elise power transformer is barely warm.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> If you're not happy with it, collect $10 from @hypnos1 @Oskari @Lorspeaker




I'll send a photo instead.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Notwithstanding the fact that my wife has instituted legal proceedings to have me institutionalized, I am still trying to follow all you are doing!!!
  
 In all seriousness, I do admire your tenacity and you are providing a wealth of information for all of us. At this point, there seems to remain one gap. We don't have a comparison between the quad powers and the GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834s . I see that Mrs. Xuling is again open for business. I could order both sets of dual adapters. As you may already know, I have 3 pairs of EL3Ns and 2 pairs of 6BL7s. But that will cost $120. I could sell a lot of my tubes that are just gathering Arizona dust and raise enough money to buy the adapters and a pair of GEC/Osrams, but I hate the idea of taking pictures, posting for sale, negotiating and then packing and shipping. My time might be better spent just finding someone else to sue )))
  
 So my question to you. Do you contemplate in the foreseeable future getting a pair of GEC/Osrams to compare to the power combos you are now experimenting with?
  
 I'm pretty sure that regardless of which way I go (which candidly may include the adapters and the GECs) I will probably stick with the EL3Ns as adapters. They seem hard to beat.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Lucky Ones 

Look at my end game, tough competition between best sounding power tubes and EL3N  This makes me believe if I spend on dual adapters, I might step up in the SQ game. 

I'm sure someone out there might be thinking, it's external power supply involved so there'll be hum, well,this combo is DEAD SILENT. I don't hate or discourage the idea of external PS. I wish I had two more adapters for EL3N, I might have settled down with 4 of them, nice and tidy looking step-up. 

Cheers 
LR


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Go ahead and order your dual EL3N and 6BL7 adapters. You'll be more than happy with the outcome. There are so many winning combinations here to make you weep with joy.
> 
> *If you're not happy with it, collect $10 from* @hypnos1 @Oskari @Lorspeaker . If you are happy pay them $10 each.


 
  
 So, @Oskari will send a photo eh?...as for me, the way you guys are scrambling my brain, it'll be more like a _hit man, LOL!!! _








...but fear not, mes amis - _somewhere_ amongst all these amazing combinations will be something for _everyone_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(I used to think _*I*_ was poor Lukasz's nightmare from Hell, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...thank the Gods Elise is _far_ more versatile than we ever imagined - absolutely amazing!...Keep up the good work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. Notwithstanding the fact that my wife has instituted legal proceedings to have me institutionalized, I am still trying to follow all you are doing!!!
> 
> In all seriousness, I do admire your tenacity and you are providing a wealth of information for all of us. At this point, there seems to remain one gap. We don't have a comparison between the quad powers and the GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834s . I see that Mrs. Xuling is again open for business. I could order both sets of dual adapters. As you may already know, I have 3 pairs of EL3Ns and 2 pairs of 6BL7s. But that will cost $120. I could sell a lot of my tubes that are just gathering Arizona dust and raise enough money to buy the adapters and a pair of GEC/Osrams, but I hate the idea of taking pictures, posting for sale, negotiating and then packing and shipping. My time might be better spent just finding someone else to sue )))
> 
> ...


 

 Hi P,
  
 If you already have 3 pairs of EL3N and 2 pairs of 6BL7, it is a worthwhile investment on the 2 set of adapters for $120. What you need are 4 additional 6SN7. You don't have to buy the expensive ones to start with. Suggestion would be to try some sweet sounding and reasonably price Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top. Well since you already have 2 stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue, you only need to buy 2 more other brands. You don't need all 4 6SN7 of the same brand and variety. Mix and match gives very pleasant tones.
  
 My last listening session before going to bed was listening 'again' to 2xEL3N with 4x6SN7 and I slept like a lamb. This combination is now sounding so sweet I cannot believe I didn't think of using 6SN7 as power tubes. You can try it now in fact. Just use 2xEL3N and 2x6SN7. You'll get a idea of the tone. Of course doubling the 6SN7 will give you the benefits I described about using Fours combination.
  
 As for GEC 6AS7G, my position is to wait and see. There doesn't seem to be an immediate need now to splurge $400 for them as I've just gotten hold of countless combinations here that all sound amazingly good. !!! It's like a child who has just gotten hold of a Superman toy. Do you think he would immediately want an Ironman or Incredible Hulk toy? Anyway I think even Bill Gates will bulk at the $400 asking price for the GEC. However don't let me stop you. Go for it if it's comfortable for you. Who knows when I get crazy I might buy a pair too but then the wife will come home and find the puppy missing and how will I explain? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers,
 UT


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi Lucky Ones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well LR what you have there are lobsters. Good stuff but you can't eat lobsters for every meal can you? You forgot about the king crabs and caviar and abalone or whatever exotic foods floats your boat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have realise now that there's no such thing as end game in head-fi but you need to know when to stop........  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So before you stop, get yourself into multiple power tubes. It's the trend now LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

I've just revisited these 2 combinations on a back to back listen with multiple power tubes. Let me assure you that these *do not* immediately become less SQ orientated. On the contrary I'm blown away by how good they sound.
  
 What we have now are a good many combinations that all sound different, some more subtle than others but all are incredibly good sounding. We're now in a best position than we could ever be. The well known idiom applies ... 'We're spoilt for choice now' !!!


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 we've gotten over the 100k views mark. Where's the cake?


----------



## Oskari

Damn. Lost the guide pin on one the EL3N adapters. Must have been the struggle to insert the tube. :mad:


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 we've gotten over the 100k views mark. Where's the cake?


 
  
 Jaws still stapled by that flamin' Cactus Cake a while back, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 And yeah...*2,050 *over - WOW!! (the Feliks guys can't believe it either...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). Elise certainly has attracted a great team of enthusiastic (and HAPPY) owners - and more to come! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Congrats to you all - and your individual contributions to its success - not forgetting the Feliks-Audio guys themselves, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!!....


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Damn. Lost the guide pin on one the EL3N adapters. Must have been the struggle to insert the tube.


 
  
 Whoops, O..."wot are you loike?!", as we would say here in Suffolk/Norfolk...
  
 Often, there's still a slight mark showing the protrusion position, which can then be run back to the side of the base and marked...any such luck?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hi P,
> 
> If you already have 3 pairs of EL3N and 2 pairs of 6BL7, it is a worthwhile investment on the 2 set of adapters for $120. What you need are 4 additional 6SN7. You don't have to buy the expensive ones to start with. Suggestion would be to try some sweet sounding and reasonably price Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top. Well since you already have 2 stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue, you only need to buy 2 more other brands. You don't need all 4 6SN7 of the same brand and variety. Mix and match gives very pleasant tones.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks UT. Sounds like very good advice. I'll go ahead and order the adapters and 4 6SN7s. That should keep me busy for a while))
  
 By the way, right now I'm listening to EL3N drivers/5998 powers. Very nice)))
  
 Be kind to animals


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Often, there's still a slight mark showing the protrusion position, which can then be run back to the side of the base and marked...any such luck?




Yes, I can see where it was. I created a visual guide pin with a marker; just need to be very careful with it.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari stop breaking pins in your enthusiasm. 
  
 This is what I like about using 4x6SN7. I can use all my favourite drivers again. Here I've paired the bright and energetic French Mazda 6N7G with the dark warm tones of the American RCA 6SN7GT Smoke Glass VT231 and the Russian 6H8C/6N8S Fotons for an international flavour. This is 3 stars Michelin I kid you not.
  
 All well under the 6.5A threshold. I think it's safe to assume up to 6.8A is ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ** 6SN7 sounds smooth.. grainless.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks UT. Sounds like very good advice. I'll go ahead and order the adapters and 4 6SN7s. That should keep me busy for a while))
> 
> *By the way, right now I'm listening to EL3N drivers/5998 powers. Very nice)))*
> 
> Be kind to animals


 
  
 You're enjoying that combo? Nice !!! Tung Sol will make you an honorary member.
  
 When I first started I could hardly remember the tube ids but now I know 5998 better than my bank account pin number.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Yes, I can see where it was. I created a visual guide pin with a marker; just need to be very careful with it.


 
  
 Jolly good...yeah, just be *extra* careful, lol!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Jolly good...yeah, just be *extra* careful, lol!:wink_face:




Must try.

Incidentally, my Elise doesn't like C3g drivers with EL3N powers: distortion.

6SN7 drivers with EL3Ns: no such problem.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Must try.
> 
> *Incidentally, my Elise doesn't like C3g drivers with EL3N powers: distortion.*
> 
> 6SN7 drivers with EL3Ns: no such problem.


 

 I have the same problem but if you swap them around they seem better. In any case I'm not so fond of C3G and EL3N combination now.
  
 Try EL3N as driver and 6SN7 as power.


----------



## UntilThen

This is very good tone too. It's all blend in. I'm not even using the same drivers pair. Tung Sol mouse ears and Sylvania 6SN7WGT all blending in with 6BL7 and RCA 6SN7GT VT231.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I have the same problem but if you swap them around they seem better. In any case I'm not so fond of C3G and EL3N combination now.




Yeah, not too good.



untilthen said:


> Try EL3N as driver and 6SN7 as power.




I'm exhausted. It's time to grab a beer and do some listening.


----------



## UntilThen

Listen to this ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's been a while since I heard Dio singing Temple of the King. Richie Blackmore's Rainbow.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Listen to this ! :bigsmile_face:




That works much better than C3g+EL3N.  This is what I was listening to:


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/_SCkKwWEKRM[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> That works much better than C3g+EL3N.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting. My EL3N and 5998 sounds different with that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I need some energy song. High tempo.


----------



## UntilThen

This is better.


----------



## Oskari

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q[/VIDEO]


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You're enjoying that combo? Nice !!! Tung Sol will make you an honorary member.
> 
> When I first started I could hardly remember the tube ids but now I know 5998 better than my bank account pin number.


 
  
 Really, I haven't found a power tube that sounds bad with the EL3Ns as drivers. Maybe the 5998s are burning in a little. Still I feel I have better in my stable.
  
 Be grateful you still have a bank account )))


----------



## UntilThen

> It's time to grab a beer and do some listening.


 
 You made it to 1500. Time to grab 3 beers. Congrats.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Be grateful you still have a bank account )))


 
  
 Even Fido have an account. Wonder if he will buy me a tube?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> You made it to 1500. Time to grab 3 beers. Congrats. :bigsmile_face:




Might have grabbed six or seven by now...


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Might have grabbed six or seven by now...


 

 Well I believe your music have more echo and reverb now. You should be able to enumerate clearly the tonal characteristics of 6sn7 and 6bl7 and el3n. When you're done with that, please move on to 6n7, fdd20, ecc31 followed by all the small tubes. Don't forget you need to get to 15 pints tonight and accomplish all that tasks. Should not be a problem for you.
  
 This is one pint. 15 remember?


----------



## UntilThen

@Oskari I found some Philips Miniwatt 6SN7. What do you think? Can you still see? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-Miniwatt-6SN7-GT-Tubes-Black-base-D-Getter-/191796399670?hash=item2ca7f4ce36:g:bEoAAOSw5dNWry0a
  
 4 for $10 bargain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Military-6SN7-ECC32-6CC10-6N8S-USSR-Tubes-OTK-NEW-/191660284393?hash=item2c9fd7d9e9:g:A08AAMXQWzNSilx-
  
  
 EL3N with 4x6SN7 sounds marvellous. Going to buy a few 6SN7 of differing tones in pairs.


----------



## UntilThen

@arie123 I'm not done with my test on multiple power tube combinations but I felt you should know before hand to put off buying 5998 for now. There are alternatives now and they are sounding better by the minute. I have to do an extended listen to these before giving a final verdict. As usual YMMV.
  
 What I have to say at this point is that I'm really impressed with 4x6SN7s in the power position with a variety of drivers, particularly EL3N, FDD20, Mazda, Visseaux, Fivre 6N7G. I've yet to try ECC31 or C3G with 6SN7. Combination of 2x6SN7 and 2x6BL7 as powers also works well with 2x6SN7 as drivers. All these are possible without using external power supply.
  
 Then there's the stand alone power tubes of which I'm fond of Chatham 6AS7G and perhaps GE 6AS7GA. Mullard 6080 is suitable if you're chasing a brighter power tube.
  
 Take your time with buying tubes. There's no need to rush now with all these choices available to us.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> This is one pint. 15 remember?


 
  
 I wouldn't survive that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> @Oskari I found some Philips Miniwatt 6SN7. What do you think? Can you still see?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those two are Adzam tubes, made by MBLE in Belgium. I have a few somewhere. First I wasn't very keen on it in the 336se but it kind of grew on me.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @Oskari...member since 2009 and only just a "supremus" lol?...where've ya bin hidin'?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...boy, have you got some catching up to do, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Ah well, with your Elise nicely esconced now, you should be able (and willing?!) to romp away like the best of 'em!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!...and congrats...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. BTW...like your "Club of Five" group 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but why do those Scandinavian languages sound so _*foreign*_ to good ol' *English*, lol??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - especially as so many of you had a great time in those 'raping and pillaging' days of yore!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....[whatever happened to that wonderful fighting spirit that entered our blood line, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]...).


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> @arie123 I'm not done with my test on multiple power tube combinations but I felt you should know before hand to put off buying 5998 for now. There are alternatives now and they are sounding better by the minute. I have to do an extended listen to these before giving a final verdict. As usual YMMV.
> 
> What I have to say at this point is that I'm really impressed with 4x6SN7s in the power position with a variety of drivers, particularly EL3N, FDD20, Mazda, Visseaux, Fivre 6N7G. I've yet to try ECC31 or C3G with 6SN7. Combination of 2x6SN7 and 2x6BL7 as powers also works well with 2x6SN7 as drivers. All these are possible without using external power supply.
> 
> ...


 

 Too late UT....   I got a good offer for both the 5998 and 6520 (copper rods) that I couldn't resist. I will stop buying tubes now (have to resist the temptation). Will shift to adapters: mrs Xuling's store is open again.
  
 I have to say the big white adapters for eg FDD20, 6A6, EL3N are too eye catching on the Elise. I saw some posts with adapters that were painted/sprayed black. I'm thinking about using head-shrink tubing as an easier and reversible solution to achieve some camouflage . Has that been attempted before?


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> but why do those Scandinavian languages sound so _*foreign*_ to good ol' *English*, lol??!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey, C, don't mix us Finns up with the thieving Scandi bastards! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Finnish, especially, should sound completely foreign to you, basically because it is.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> Too late UT....   I got a good offer for both the 5998 and 6520 (copper rods) that I couldn't resist. I will stop buying tubes now (have to resist the temptation). Will shift to adapters: mrs Xuling's store is open again.
> 
> I have to say the big white adapters for eg FDD20, 6A6, EL3N are too eye catching on the Elise. I saw some posts with adapters that were painted/sprayed black. I'm thinking about using head-shrink tubing as an easier and reversible solution to achieve some camouflage . Has that been attempted before?


 

 It's ok arie because if it was me I would have gotten them and I did. Any keen tube roller would have done so. 5998 are famous. They are either loved or loathed but usually the former. 6520 if they do not have the domino plates are really similar to Chatham 6AS7G but having both of them I know they're not really identical in tone. So if they are good offers, then well done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You can paint the white adapters with automotive paint but I never bothered. I grew to accept them. Panda eyes I think of them.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Those two are Adzam tubes, made by MBLE in Belgium. I have a few somewhere. First I wasn't very keen on it in the 336se but it kind of grew on me.


 
 You have the 336se? Are we childhood friends? I don't look like a Finn tho.
  
 I still love that amp. Sits right next to Elise now. They share similar tubes. Amp rolling. I have to get more.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Hey, C, don't mix us Finns up with the thieving Scandi bastards!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Careful, you'll start a war if there's a Scandi here.


----------



## hypnos1

Ah @Oskari...so there's none of your ancestors' blood in my veins? - shame, 'cos I could have sworn we shared an inherited "nice guy" trait, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....on second thoughts, sometimes perhaps _my_ ancestry at least has a lot to answer for!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










......(but I do try...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Audict123

oskari said:


> Hey, C, don't mix us Finns up with the thieving Scandi bastards!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can confirm... I was in Jyväskylä (central Finland) a couple of months ago for work. It was the first time I realised that I couldn't understand a SINGLE word of this foreign language, oral or written. Nothing. A background in English, Dutch, German, French is no help whatsoever. One exception, on a menu card, was champagne - probably because not only the product but also the word is imported 
  
 Spent one late evening dining in a wooden hut, taking sauna's and swimming in the directly adjacent lake to cool down. The moon was very low over the lake exactly opposite the entry point in the water. It was beautiful and a magical experience. A funny thing: we were in the airplane with the Jyväskylä ice hockey team. I spent only 3 days in Finland but will remember this.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey the dual 6SN7 works well in the DV336se. Behold 3x6SN7 or rather one 7N7 and 2x6SN7. No distortion no hum and sounding really sweet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  .... and DV is cold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Must show it to the DV community.
  
 No it doesn't behave too well in the DV. Humming when I swap HP to HD650. Volume doesn't go too loud on the T1. Manage to push to max even. No distortion but it wasn't screaming loud.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> You have the 336se?


 
  
 Yesh.
  


hypnos1 said:


> Ah @Oskari...so there's none of your ancestors' blood in my veins?


 
  
 We might both have some Scandi blood. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


audict123 said:


> I can confirm... I was in Jyväskylä (central Finland) … … A funny thing: we were in the airplane with the Jyväskylä ice hockey team.


 
  
 That's my hometown, originally. Still support the team.


----------



## Audict123

oskari said:


> That's my hometown, originally. Still support the team.


 
  
 Incredible, it's a small world....


----------



## UntilThen

Hi @mordy the good seller has given me the ok to return the 'humming' pair of GE 6BL7GTA for a refund. Very nice and good seller. I told him I'll be selecting another pair from his store. Viva Tubes by the way and I can recommend them heartily. I've bought many tubes before from them and always have a very smooth transaction.
  
 Are there any brands worth looking at or it doesn't matter? I was thinking Ferrari brand.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Hi @mordy the good seller has given me the ok to return the 'humming' pair of GE 6BL7GTA for a refund. Very nice and good seller. I told him I'll be selecting another pair from his store. Viva Tubes by the way and I can recommend them heartily. I've bought many tubes before from them and always have a very smooth transaction.
> 
> Are there any brands worth looking at or it doesn't matter? I was thinking Ferrari brand.


 
 I've just received a couple of used (as opposed to NOS) GE 6BL7GTA from Viva Tubes and I can second the recommendation. My ears are still misbehaving a little, but the bass punch from a 6BL7GTA/EL3N combo is amazing...but I've only just got the 6BL7GTAs and have only heard a couple of songs so far (Jacques Loussier Trio - not a bad choice for evaluating bass!). It may end up too much for me and I'll be back to 4xEL3N - though I have two more EL3Ns arriving tomorrow (to make 6). I'm not intending on buying the dual adapters, but then I was only intending on buying one pair of EL3Ns, and no 6BL7s....


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> I've just received a couple of used (as opposed to NOS) GE 6BL7GTA from Viva Tubes and I can second the recommendation. My ears are still misbehaving a little, but the bass punch from a 6BL7GTA/EL3N combo is amazing...but I've only just got the 6BL7GTAs and have only heard a couple of songs so far (Jacques Loussier Trio - not a bad choice for evaluating bass!). It may end up too much for me and I'll be back to 4xEL3N - though I have two more EL3Ns arriving tomorrow (to make 6). I'm not intending on buying the dual adapters, but then I was only intending on buying one pair of EL3Ns, and no 6BL7s....


 

 Sounds like you like 4xEL3Ns. I do too.
  
 Here's to Viva La Vida


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Hey the dual 6SN7 works well in the DV336se. Behold 3x6SN7 or rather one 7N7 and 2x6SN7. No distortion no hum and sounding really sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 HD650 is my reference HP for humming tube 

 I'm testing single pentode as output triode with Elise and this give very good result. I have nice result with EL3N as output tube and 6N7GT as driver... SN7 have too much gain and not enough power to be a good output tube IMHO..
 EL84, 6L6, EL34, EL11, ... EL3N are god candidates for HP > 150Ohms


----------



## UntilThen

4x6SN7 will work nicely as power tubes in Elise (with EL3N as drivers as well as FDD20) after 2 days of testing. 2x6SN7 will not work as well.
  
 Again 4xEL3N as power tubes drives my HE560 (35ohms) without problems... smoothly I'd say.  
 On the whole though, I prefer my dynamics headphones now. Just a preference.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 I do want to point out something from the planning/participating days of the Elise amp. There was a discussion why the amp should not use one double triode with the two halves of the triode driving one channel each vs two dual triodes.
  
 The Feliks team answered that two dual triodes sounded better.
  
 Of course they were right. Now we are finding that doubling the power tubes for each channel results in better sound.
  
 What we need to ascertain is if 4 x 6BL7 as power tubes sound better than 4 x 6SN7 and/or other combinations. Then we need a direct comparison with the optimal 4x power tube combination vs 5998 and 1834A.
  
 And finally, is 6 x power tubes going to sound better than 4 x power tubes in the Elise? The problem with 6 x 6BL7 is that the in rush current on start-up could exceed 15A.
  
 At the moment I am using two EL3N as drivers and two 6BL7 as power tubes with very good results, but I am convinced that 4 x 6BL7 will sound better - haven't gotten the adapters yet.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I do want to point out something from the planning/participating days of the Elise amp. There was a discussion why the amp should not use one double triode with the two halves of the triode driving one channel each vs two dual triodes.
> 
> ...


 
 And how about 4x 6AS7G with external heat? I'd be very interested in this.


----------



## mordy

Hi suuup,
  
 4 x 2.5A = 10A. To be on the safe side for the starting in-rush current you will need a power supply supplying well in excess of 15A.
  
 I don't know enough about how much margin you must have - was told that the in-rush current may be triple the normal current draw. Running 4 x 2.5A will require some serious heavy duty stuff.
  
 Everything is possible, but it is necessary to know what the power supply requirements are.
  





  
 I think that this amp uses 14 6AS7 power tubes per channel....


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha this is where I get off the evaluation train and just enjoy my music. 

Good luck to whoever wants to undertake this mammoth task. 

Besides you'll only get differing opinions as to best combos as clearly there are different taste, gear and ears.

Happy listening. The best combo is what you yourself deemed is best. A year from now if you still like that tone then you will know that is your true love. 

As for me I'll not settle for one combo. I have my preference but I also love changing them occasionally to enjoy my music. This is the advantage of having a tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

EL3N / 5998
 This started it all for me. I call it my benchmark. It's quite clear to me now that this benchmark has been eclipsed by a few combos. When I first listen to 4xEL3N, I realised how energised EL3N/5998 sounded. It's not a tone I'd live with 24x7. It's exciting, lots of details and incredible lift in the musical notes but gets tiring after several hours. Switching to EL3N / Chatham 6AS7G confirms it. The Chathams have a mellower tone, airy and breezy. A better combination with the EL3N for extended listening. 4xEL3N takes it a step further for me. It's now a right tone for me. I'd characterise it as soothing, relax and yet have the clarity and details to keep you captivated to listen on, song after song. Vocals sound very clear and bass have the right touch. Not too heavy, not too light, with impeccable control. 
  
 6xEL3N
 This changes the tone even more. I mentioned about soundstage expanding, imaging becoming more precise. However it's the density of the tone that gets me. There's now a lovely texture which is very holographic. Pardon my use of a word most often used these days but that's how it is for me. There's a fullness in the sound that's just right. It draws you in for extended listening without fatigue.
  
 In the last few days, a few combos excite me but without this texture. 2xEL3N and 4x6SN7 comes close but with a clearer, brighter sound that still shows off the tone of EL3N clearly. I love it. 2xEL3N with 2x6BL7 and 2x6SN7 sounded good too but can be a touch heavy on bass. One last combination is quite enjoyable too but one I felt clinical and missing the texture of the 6xEL3N. This is with 2x6SN7 with 2x6BL7 and 2x6SN7. Bass is very nice though.
  
 So here's my take and impressions of these few combinations that appeal to me. I've decided to publish this now because I didn't want to keep Vince waiting any longer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's quite clear I did not cover 2x6SN7 with 4x6BL7 or 2x6SN7 with 6x6BL7. I won't be travelling that road as it involves more external power supply and adapters. That will be left to others adventurous enough to pursue it. 
  
 Finally tube rolling has shown me what Elise is capable of. It's not the end but it's good enough for me to just get on with the task of enjoying music now with all these combinations.
  
 So over to you, for new tube combos or new Elise impressions. Go for it. Enjoy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My fav pic of 6xEL3N


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Sounds like you like 4xEL3Ns. I do too.
> 
> Here's to Viva La Vida
> 
> ...


 
 Yes - and I'm back to 4xEL3Ns again. It turns out that there was some distortion in the 6BL7s which became really obvious at higher volumes. But once I'd heard it, I couldn't unhear it, so it affected my normal listening as well.


----------



## UntilThen

tjw321 said:


> once I'd heard it, I couldn't unhear it


 
 Well listen to this in Hey Jude !!!
  
 Did you hear it?


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> Well listen to this in Hey Jude !!!
> 
> Did you hear it?


 
 Ha! That reminds me of my favourite recording of "The Nutcracker" there's a part where one of the violinists drops his bow. I've listened to my favourite so much now that I miss the "bow drop" when I listen to any other.


----------



## UntilThen

You think the violinist live to tell this tale? Or did he get an early retirement? What happens when the conductor drops his baton.


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> You think the violinist live to tell this tale? Or did he get an early retirement? What happens when the conductor drops his baton.


 
 I think the violinist got away with it...he managed to drop it on beat. As for the conductor...


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> And how about 4x 6AS7G with external heat? I'd be very interested in this.


 
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi suuup,
> 
> 4 x 2.5A = 10A. To be on the safe side for the starting in-rush current you will need a power supply supplying well in excess of 15A.
> 
> ...


 
  
 OUCH!, guys...this is getting _*serious*_, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(perchance to dream?!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


untilthen said:


> EL3N / 5998
> This started it all for me. I call it my benchmark. It's quite clear to me now that this benchmark has been eclipsed by a few combos. When I first listen to 4xEL3N, I realised how energised EL3N/5998 sounded. It's not a tone I'd live with 24x7. It's exciting, lots of details and incredible lift in the musical notes but gets tiring after several hours. Switching to EL3N / Chatham 6AS7G confirms it. The Chathams have a mellower tone, airy and breezy. A better combination with the EL3N for extended listening. 4xEL3N takes it a step further for me. It's now a right tone for me. I'd characterise it as soothing, relax and yet have the clarity and details to keep you captivated to listen on, song after song. Vocals sound very clear and bass have the right touch. Not too heavy, not too light, with impeccable control.
> 
> 6xEL3N
> ...


 
  
 WELL DONE UT...you have indeed given folks a _*mammoth*_ choice - some very interesting combinations there, to be sure....(sounds like you're _almost_ up to my GEC/Osrams, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and luckily, I don't now feel the desire at all to change tubes to suit....driven by the EL3Ns, the more I revisit my different music pieces used this past year plus, the more I love this combo...and still to a degree I find unbelievable, and never before matched).
 I truly hope *all* can reach this happiest of states, LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 ps.  And not forgetting the good work done by @mordy and @JazzVinyl of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS! to you all...


----------



## pctazhp

I must order tubes in my sleep!!! A couple of days ago a pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs arrived that I forgot I had I ordered. I've been listening mainly to the EL3N/6AS7G combo since they arrived and I think the Chatham's may now be my favorite power tube. The best way I can describe what I'm hearing is the Chathams seem to accomplish what I hoped the 5998s would achieve, but just never quite got there. Or another way is to say I am feeling the same excitement I felt when I tried the 6BL7s on my HD700s, but the Chathams with my T1 are better than the 6BL7s with my HD700s. The Chathams with my HD700s are good, but not great.
  
 The Chathams set up a wonderful sound stage, 3 dimensional and well layered. The sound stage sounds natural and adjusts well depending on the recording and the particular recording venue.
  
 From bass to trebles, all integrate well together and there is amazing detail. Bass is tight and natural, although not over whelming. Highs have beautiful, natural sparkle. There is appropriate character, body and natural bloom to the mid-ranges.
  
 In almost all of what I've heard so far, they capture the emotion of the performance that just makes me want more and more of what I'm hearing. They are free of both grain and fatigue.
  
 I've ordered the dual EL3N adapters and 6 X EL3Ns may be that elusive "end game" I've been chasing, with plenty of back up. Just wish I could stop obsessing about the @hypnos1 GEC/Osrams. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe I need some more tube therapy from @UntilThen


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> I think that this amp uses 14 6AS7 power tubes per channel....


 
  
 Those dual monos are so beautiful it brings tears to my eyes ))))


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I must order tubes in my sleep!!! A couple of days ago a pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs arrived that I forgot I had I ordered. I've been listening mainly to the EL3N/6AS7G combo since they arrived and I think the Chatham's may now be my favorite power tube. The best way I can describe what I'm hearing is the Chathams seem to accomplish what I hoped the 5998s would achieve, but just never quite got there. Or another way is to say I am feeling the same excitement I felt when I tried the 6BL7s on my HD700s, but the Chathams with my T1 are better than the 6BL7s with my HD700s. The Chathams with my HD700s are good, but not great.
> 
> The Chathams set up a wonderful sound stage, 3 dimensional and well layered. The sound stage sounds natural and adjusts well depending on the recording and the particular recording venue.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aaahhh pct...choices, choices! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I agree - the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G/T1 combo delivers a superlative sound...and one which should please _anyone_, lol...BUT...you've been bitten by the bug, my poor friend, and so your journey has a way to go yet, alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and what a journey! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 (But I'm sure you're getting _very_ close - if not already there, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...savour these moments...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi suuup,
> 
> 4 x 2.5A = 10A. To be on the safe side for the starting in-rush current you will need a power supply supplying well in excess of 15A.
> 
> ...


 
 Very good picture Mordy! I believe it's a pair of Futterman mono blocks? Very well known OTL tube amp. 
  
 I believe 15A should be more than enough to drive 4x 6AS7G. I think I'll ask MrsXuling to make a 2x adapter with external heating. 5998 + Mullard 6080 combo? Yes please, I need to try that. Now I just have to find a proper power supply.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WELL DONE UT...you have indeed given folks a _*mammoth*_ choice - some very interesting combinations there, to be sure....(sounds like you're _almost_ up to my GEC/Osrams, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi H1, 
  
 I think if one could get Elise to sound her best with just one pair of drivers and one pair of powers, that would have been the best outcome. Now if only I had numbered the stock tubes from Feliks Audio, I might have the crème de la crème. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










  So perhaps you're the wise one, staying with EL3N and GEC 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Perhaps we should swap our tubes and experience what it's like to be on the other side. The dark side !!! So when are you coming down under? XO is still here.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> I think if one could get Elise to sound her best with just one pair of drivers and one pair of powers, that would have been the best outcome. Now if only I had numbered the stock tubes from Feliks Audio, I might have the crème de la crème.
> 
> ...


 
  
 While the XO bottle stays _reasonably_ full, there's always hope, mon ami...and I live in hope, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(not to mention my dreams...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I must order tubes in my sleep!!! A couple of days ago a pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs arrived that I forgot I had I ordered. I've been listening mainly to the EL3N/6AS7G combo since they arrived and I think the Chatham's may now be my favorite power tube. The best way I can describe what I'm hearing is the Chathams seem to accomplish what I hoped the 5998s would achieve, but just never quite got there. Or another way is to say I am feeling the same excitement I felt when I tried the 6BL7s on my HD700s, but the Chathams with my T1 are better than the 6BL7s with my HD700s. The Chathams with my HD700s are good, but not great.
> 
> The Chathams set up a wonderful sound stage, 3 dimensional and well layered. The sound stage sounds natural and adjusts well depending on the recording and the particular recording venue.
> 
> ...


 

 You're twisting my mind with all that tubes and headphones combinations. The Chatham 6AS7G does have that special allure but you've just driven the price of it sky high. Now LR will be worth a few more oil wells with his stash of 10 Chathams.
  
 Never chase the end game. The end is a state of mind and an endless drain on the pocket. Eventually you will realise that the best sound is one of yourself singing in the shower.


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1. Quick question. According to the specs I've seen, a pair of 6AS7Gs draws 5 amps and a pair of EL3Ns draws 1.8 amps. This exceeds the Feliks recommended 6.5 amp max by a little bit. Are you running your combination without any external power?
  
 Apologize in advance if this question has already been asked and answered.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You're twisting my mind with all that tubes and headphones combinations. The Chatham 6AS7G does have that special allure but you've just driven the price of it sky high. Now LR will be worth a few more oil wells with his stash of 10 Chathams.
> 
> Never chase the end game. The end is a state of mind and an endless drain on the pocket. Eventually you will realise that the best sound is one of yourself singing in the shower.


 
 10 Chathams???? LR has just become my best friend)))
  
 My singing in the shower the best???? God help us all


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Very good picture Mordy! I believe it's a pair of Futterman mono blocks? Very well known OTL tube amp.
> 
> I believe 15A should be more than enough to drive 4x 6AS7G. I think I'll ask MrsXuling to make a 2x adapter with external heating. 5998 + Mullard 6080 combo? Yes please, I need to try that. Now I just have to find a proper power supply.


 
 Suuup you're giving me goosebumps reading what you're trying to do. I have to award you this plague. Eh.... it's plaque.


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> And how about 4x 6AS7G with external heat? I'd be very interested in this.


 
  
 4 6N6P or 3 6SL7G or 6AS7G by chanel  or one 6336 or even a 6C33C you will need at least 17.5 to 20A at  6.3VAC to heat everything.
 The on demand built glenn studio amp is for you !
 You can also probably ask Feliks Audio engineer to build one for you using Elise schematics but pimped with additional transformer and heating circuit..
  

 Even one 6AS7G shared between chanel is more than enough for a 300Ohm headphone...
  
 With OTL amplifier:
 Having more triodes in // decrease impedance and is more suitable to pair with low impedance headphone... If you do not have right matching another solution is to have much more power like single 6C33C or 6336. 
  
 With SRPP not the same design:
 WitYou generally work with higher voltage on tube and add an tranformer to match low z and High z cans between your can and the output from the tubes.
  
  
 In general with tube design less tube you have in the signal more natural is the sound, 
 Adding more tube can add some effect on the perceived sound this could better match your taste even the cans you use.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1. Quick question. According to the specs I've seen, a pair of 6AS7Gs draws 5 amps and a pair of EL3Ns draws 1.8 amps. This exceeds the Feliks recommended 6.5 amp max by a little bit. Are you running your combination without any external power?
> 
> Apologize in advance if this question has already been asked and answered.


 

 Surprisingly running EL3N and 6AS7G doesn't heat up Elise very much. 6N7G and 6AS7G heats up Elise a lot more. 6N7G and 6080 gets hot.
  
 However 6xEL3N big bonus is being cool. I forgot to power off Elise with 6xEL3N when I went out yesterday. Returned 6 hours later and she is still cool.


----------



## Oskari

I finally got myself a new (to me) DAC, a Rega DAC, that is. Having looked for months, found one for sale not far away, at the next train stop.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I finally got myself a new (to me) DAC, a Rega DAC, that is. Having looked for months, found one for sale not far away, at the next train stop.


 

 Interesting. I have a high regard for Rega products. There is an upgraded Rega DAC-R now selling for AUD$1199 rrp. The Rega DAC still retails for AUD$999 new.
  
 Nice feature sets. Coaxial, optical and USB input all with a max resolution of 24-bit/192khz. 
  
 Hook it up quick and tell us how it sounds.


----------



## mordy

Hi suuup,
  
 For a 15A power supply I use a PC power supply rated 430W and 15A. If you have a broken PC you may want to take out the power supply and check the ratings. New ones can be bought on sale for around $30 in the US.
  
 The PC PS is rated 12V - you will need an inexpensive 15A voltage regulator as well.


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> I finally got myself a new (to me) DAC, a Rega DAC, that is. Having looked for months, found one for sale not far away, at the next train stop.


 

 Great DAC Oskari one of the best for the price in used material market  A bit warm but really nicely match tube amplifier !


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Interesting. I have a high regard for Rega products. There is an upgraded Rega DAC-R now selling for AUD$1199 rrp. The Rega DAC still retails for AUD$999 new.
> 
> Nice feature sets. Coaxial, optical and USB input all with a max resolution of 24-bit/192khz.
> 
> Hook it up quick and tell us how it sounds.


 
  
 Oh, I can tell you that it beats the €14 USB interface which it replaced. Involuntary head bobbing has been witnessed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is the older version which is a bit limited as regards USB. That's not a problem for me. Very happy with it so far. I think I'm a fan of the Wolfson chips. The DAC also piles quite nicely with Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Surprisingly running EL3N and 6AS7G doesn't heat up Elise very much. 6N7G and 6AS7G heats up Elise a lot more. 6N7G and 6080 gets hot.
> 
> However 6xEL3N big bonus is being cool. I forgot to power off Elise with 6xEL3N when I went out yesterday. Returned 6 hours later and she is still cool.


 
 My experience with the EL3N/6AS7G is similar to yours.
  
 Three things on my gratitude list today: Elise, Tidal HiFi and YouTube. A year ago I would never have imagined this old geezer would rediscover his love of music the way I have.
  
 Such a beautiful voice and tragic life. This for you UT. I think you appreciate great music, regardless of period or genre:


----------



## Oskari

hpamdr said:


> Great DAC Oskari one of the best for the price in used material market  A bit warm but really nicely match tube amplifier !


 
  
 Warm is fine. Shrill is what I can't handle.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> My experience with the EL3N/6AS7G is similar to yours.
> 
> Three things on my gratitude list today: Elise, Tidal HiFi and YouTube. A year ago I would never have imagined this old geezer would rediscover his love of music the way I have.
> 
> Such a beautiful voice and tragic life. This for you UT. I think you appreciate great music, regardless of period or genre:


 
 The music of yesteryears are timeless. I have a Janis Joplin CD.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> The PC PS is rated 12V - you will need an inexpensive 15A voltage regulator as well.


 
  
 Don't forget, guys, that 12 V in series heating is an option.
  


2359glenn said:


> If you get 2 adapters with three 6BL7s with the filament leads brought out then hook them in series 6.3 + 6.3 = 12.6 @ 4.5amps no voltage regulator needed
> And a smaller 12 volt power supply. Also will have a lower start up inrush then six 6BL7s in parallel.


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> Two 6AS7G by chanel  or one 6336 or even a 6C33C you will need at least 17.5 to 20A at  6.3VAC to heat everything.
> The on demand built glenn studio amp is for you !
> You can probably ask FeliksAudio to build one for you using Elise schematics but pimped with additional transformer and heating circuit..


 
 I've been wanting to do 6336 and 6C33C also. If I had known I'd be rolling this many different tubes, with these many different specifications, I would've asked the Feliks guys to put in a 'better' transformer. Luckily, heating tubes does not require that clean power, it just needs power, so laptop adapters / other 'unclean' power supplies can do the job. 
  
@mordy Yes, a pc power supply is what I have in mind. Getting a pc power supply is not problem, making the voltage regulator work is. 
  
@Oskari Series is a possibility, but it would be rather limiting. I may want to go for 12V tubes at some point, and if the adapter was in series, I'd need a 24V power supply. 
  
  
 Now that I think about it, it would be easier to have 2 wires for external heating pr tube, meaning 4 in total. That way, it would be possible to wire them in series yourself, if you so desired.


----------



## mordy

Hi suuup,
  
 I have this voltage regulator and have absolutely no problems with it. You just need a volt meter to set the voltage, using the little brass slotted screw on the blue box (bottom right on this picture):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231104103029?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  





  
 Does anybody know if wiring the three tubes in series or in parallel makes a difference in sound?


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Hi suuup,
> 
> I have this voltage regulator and have absolutely no problems with it. You just need a volt meter to set the voltage, using the little brass slotted screw on the blue box (bottom right on this picture):
> 
> ...


 
 It change the sound. The heating circuit is completely seperate from the rest of the tube / amp circuit.
  
 Maybe the voltage will though. I don't know if there's a difference in sound between feeding the tube 6V and 6.3V. There might be. 
  
 About the voltage regulator, I have one myself, but I cannot make it change the voltage, no matter what I do. I don't think mine allows for 15A though. I might order the one you linked. Thanks!


----------



## whirlwind

suuup said:


> hpamdr said:
> 
> 
> > Two 6AS7G by chanel  or one 6336 or even a 6C33C you will need at least 17.5 to 20A at  6.3VAC to heat everything.
> ...


 
 If you find something to power those 6336 tubes...be careful...they got *hot!  *


----------



## Suuup

Okay. I got impatient and ordered 4x 6C33C. http://www.ebay.com/itm/111575376633?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  

  
 They are triodes, so I'll use 2x for each power slot to make it a double triode. I'll need a behemoth of a power supply to run all of those. 
  
@whirlwind Thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure how to slot these yet.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Okay. I got impatient and ordered 4x 6C33C.


 
  
 You sure are adventurous.


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> You sure are adventurous.


 
 This will be the last, I promise. I'm happy with my drivers, I just need a good pair of powers. Something that isn't the 5998, as they're crazy expensive. For drivers I have my 6N7G, FDD20, and ECC31. They give me everything I want. Still need to find 'the one' power, or in this case 'the four'.


----------



## vince741

untilthen said:


> EL3N / 5998
> This started it all for me. I call it my benchmark. It's quite clear to me now that this benchmark has been eclipsed by a few combos. When I first listen to 4xEL3N, I realised how energised EL3N/5998 sounded. It's not a tone I'd live with 24x7. It's exciting, lots of details and incredible lift in the musical notes but gets tiring after several hours. Switching to EL3N / Chatham 6AS7G confirms it. The Chathams have a mellower tone, airy and breezy. A better combination with the EL3N for extended listening. 4xEL3N takes it a step further for me. It's now a right tone for me. I'd characterise it as soothing, relax and yet have the clarity and details to keep you captivated to listen on, song after song. Vocals sound very clear and bass have the right touch. Not too heavy, not too light, with impeccable control.
> 
> 6xEL3N
> This changes the tone even more. I mentioned about soundstage expanding, imaging becoming more precise. However it's the density of the tone that gets me. There's now a lovely texture which is very holographic. Pardon my use of a word most often used these days but that's how it is for me. There's a fullness in the sound that's just right. It draws you in for extended listening without fatigue.


 
 Thank you so much UT.
  
 My guess is, I'll be pretty happy with 5998 and won't have the urge to buy 4xEL3N+double adapter for power.
 I already have a non fatiguing amp (Auralic Taurus), one a bit more musical (Liquid Carbon) and I'll be really happy with a more exciting one.


----------



## Oskari

Let us not forget the music.


----------



## mordy

Hi suuup,
  
 6 or 6.3V will not make any difference IMHO. When you look on spec sheets there is often a 10% range in the operating parameters.
  
 https://www.google.com/search?q=spec+sheet+6AS7&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
  
 This spec sheet for the Svetlana 6AS7 shows an operating range from 5.7 - 6.9V


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Thank you so much UT.
> 
> My guess is, I'll be pretty happy with 5998 and won't have the urge to buy 4xEL3N+double adapter for power.
> I already have a non fatiguing amp (Auralic Taurus), one a bit more musical (Liquid Carbon) and I'll be really happy with a more exciting one.


 
  
 You're welcome Vince.
 5998 has a big fan base. That accounts for the high price and scarcity now. C3G and 7N7 goes well with it too plus a variety of 6SN7. You won't be disappointed listening to Pink Floyd. I remember that's one of your favourite. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm running a 7N7 with 5998 in the 336se.


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> Let us not forget the music.


 
 Thanks Oskari. Very special


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi UT,
  
 I eat simple food now haha People talk about cars and stuff when describing sound, you talk about food and make me hungry. I have just realized that my golden adapters have started working, the Visseaux 6N7G Joy Bringers are humfree and the image is again centered, this is the second time I plugged them both in Elise after coming back home 
  
 Funny thing, I received another pair of ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters from Suzier today and the Golder ones started working, I will test them in couple of days so be sure if everything is alright or I am just imagining things.
  
 Looks like Visseaux 6N7G and EL3N as power tubes is a brilliant combo, you should try, all the lucky ones who have this pair of tubes hehe...
  
 Cheers!
 LR
  
 PS: Picture coming up soon!!!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Well LR what you have there are lobsters. Good stuff but you can't eat lobsters for every meal can you? You forgot about the king crabs and caviar and abalone or whatever exotic foods floats your boat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1. Quick question. According to the specs I've seen, a pair of 6AS7Gs draws 5 amps and a pair of EL3Ns draws 1.8 amps. This exceeds the Feliks recommended 6.5 amp max by a little bit. Are you running your combination without any external power?
> 
> Apologize in advance if this question has already been asked and answered.


 
  
 Hi pct...as UT says, the EL3N/6AS7G combo runs _real_ cool...unbelievably so! Have been running this now for 100s of hours, and not the slightest hiccough lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...so no fears here methinks...and I think @hpamdr had some very wise words to say re. just what the 6AS7G is capable of...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





suuup said:


> Okay. I got impatient and ordered 4x 6C33C. http://www.ebay.com/itm/111575376633?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey Suuup...hope you've done extensive research on the kind of wild animal the 6336 can be, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...best wishes to you...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I eat simple food now haha People talk about cars and stuff when describing sound, you talk about food and make me hungry. I have just realized that my golden adapters have started working, the Visseaux 6N7G Joy Bringers are humfree and the image is again centered, this is the second time I plugged them both in Elise after coming back home
> 
> ...


 
 Once you come down under, you'll be hum free. You will be demagnetised. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats. Enjoy. How about the Mazda? Now tell me all about the microscopic sound differences between the Mazda and the Vissesux. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've tried all kinds of combinations in my inventory. There are indeed many good sounding combinations. Gone are the days when I talk about cars. Food is ever in fashion. You can't do without it. Rather than eating out of necessity, you might as well enjoy it.


----------



## UntilThen

LR, I'm hearing now what you're hearing but with a different headphone. Visseaux 6N7G and EL3N is indeed a nice sounding combination. 
  
 One observation though. With EL3N as power tubes, my volume gain is less by one notch unless I use EL3N as driver and power as well.


----------



## Lord Raven

Here you go guys, this combo is sweet as any higher end combo  Initially I put these tubes to test working of the newly received adapters but then I fell in love with the sound, listened to a lot of Jazz albums without any ear fatigue, that is now my first goal because Jazz gets a lot louder at times. Also, tried the famous ECC31 and I think these ECC31 and 6N7G tubes are best for Jazz music, they give such mellow sound that it is very hard to move away from them.
  
 Hi again UT, I have not tested the Mazda yet, but I am sure they will test the same as great sounding Visseaux 6N7G  I also listened to the Fivre 6N7GT Grey Glass, great sound once again. Regarding Mazda and Visseaux and Fiver, the internals are ALL the same  How can I tell the difference by just looking at them? Give me some time to listen to them closely. Sometimes I wonder, I have so many tubes, none of them is gone past its break in time haha I am just listening to the crude sound and still loving it. I think I should keep my Elise switched on overnight to help the tubes with break in period, like I used to do in the beginning of it all LOL
  
 It's valentine's day and I wish all you guys a great day, I have been eating a lot of chocolate pastries cause of my wife's sweet tooth LOL I hope you had a great day with your loved ones.
  
 Cheers once again!
 LR
  



untilthen said:


> Once you come down under, you'll be hum free. You will be demagnetised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> LR, I'm hearing now what you're hearing but with a different headphone. Visseaux 6N7G and EL3N is indeed a nice sounding combination.
> 
> One observation though. With EL3N as power tubes, my volume gain is less by one notch unless I use EL3N as driver and power as well.


 
 Hi UT once again,
  
 Thank you for testing this combo, I think with EL3N our 5998 can rest for a while  This tube is magic, put it any way and it performs, there is enough of everything, sparkle, impact, gain, you name it. I wish I could try all 4 EL3N, looks like I have to hit the Mrs-X's store one last time  LOL But where do I find the same great tubes at good price? LOL Looks like a long way to go for reaching an end game, you were right UT, there is no end game.
  
 Cheers!
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

An album dedication to all you lucky ones out there, listen to it in DSD if you have the privilege of doing it in your setup, works otherwise as well 
  
 It makes me move, I am back to my end game LOL FDD20 with EL3N as powers, this combo is my end game for now, you can well imagine how it should sound, I am a detail freak.. LOL
  
 Carole King - Tapestry (1971)


----------



## UntilThen

LR how about I tempt you one more time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same setup as yours but with twice as many EL3Ns. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Jazz will never sound the same again.


----------



## Lord Raven

Oh GOD, the thought of 6 x EL3N tubes sounds so good 
  
 UT, please suggest, should I go for the dual EL3N adapters so I could use these tubes in power slots? Or the single adapters so that I go for 4 x EL3N?
  
 For me, the 2 x EL3N power tubes is enough driving force, I don't want ear bursting bass or anything, the control and impact is already there and I am content with it  I am sure about it.
  
 I think I should buy another pair of marshmallows, I am so confused after looking at this picture. You are going to get me into trouble LOL
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> LR how about I tempt you one more time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Does this make you more confused lol?
  
 Creame de la cream.


----------



## UntilThen

I cannot advise you as I like both 4 and 6s. Six and you'll deplete the EL3N stocks and what are you going to do with the 10 Chatham 6AS7G then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll let @pctazhp tell you when he has gotten hold of the dual EL3N adapters.


----------



## Lord Raven

Oh GOD you are stepping on my end game  LOL
  
 This must sound heavenly, what do you say about it?  DEAD SILENT, and the sound is coming from everywhere, it surrounds you, like you are in a concert for just one, yourself and the artist!!!
  
 OMG I need those dual adapters to complete my power requirements haha
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Does this make you more confused lol?
> 
> Creame de la cream.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I cannot advise you as I like both 4 and 6s. Six and you'll deplete the EL3N stocks and what are you going to do with the 10 Chatham 6AS7G then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No matter however I put my tube stash on Elise, you always get away with it, you win bro.. LOL
  
 I think I should get the dual adapters, then I'll have to get another pair and it will cost me a lot of money and time to wait for everything to arrive 
  
 I am going to get an adapter that will fit all my Chatham 6AS7G tubes on Elise haha Just like mordy recently suggest an amp that used 14 on each side LOL


----------



## UntilThen

5 Chatham 6AS7G per channel? Don't do it. That's the point of no return. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was happily chatting on the Darkvoice forum not too long ago. Then one day, a gentleman pop in and blame the DV336se for getting him so hooked on tube amp. He started with the DV336se and ended up with the EC445.
  
 This.
  
 http://www.eddiecurrent.com/445.html


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> 5 Chatham 6AS7G per channel? Don't do it. That's the point of no return.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Tonight I am getting a Quad DSD or DSD256, which is 4 x DSD 64 
  
 For now, my HIGH is, the best digital audio format out there LOL
  
 Chatham 6AS7G is my prized collection haha Hard to part with them hehe


----------



## UntilThen

Don't forget this ok?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Don't forget this ok?


 
 Tomorrow I put everything on sale to own a pair of these  I am serious, I need to take pictures, write descriptions, bla bla, but I will do it LOL
  
 Right now, I am listening to Elton John, my favorite singer, through a DSD, a Vinyl rip and a CD, I could easily tell a difference between all these three versions, I cannot wait for Quad DSD, the mother of all audio formats, enough said!!!
  
 Cheers
 LR 
  
 Off to the zzzz land LOL!


----------



## mordy

Encouraged by the cool reviews (cool amp that is with a current draw of 6.8A) I now tried my Chatham 6AS7G with the EL3N tubes.
  




  
 A very nice, refined, multi layered sound with very good bass and treble extension and great detail. The word "lithe" comes to mind (moving in an easy and graceful way). Only need 10 o'clock to get very loud sound with headphones. Slight hum after 12 o'clock. Hum free with speakers at normal to loud levels.
  
 Need some time to align my brain with this sound compared to the 2x6BL7. To me the BL sound is more organic and forgiving. The BL is more musical, the Chatham 6AS7 more analytical. Very wide sound stage.
  
 Just used my sophisticated temperature monitoring tool on the transformer housing on the Elise (palm of my hand) - cool as cucumber so far.
  
 Let's see how this ST convention will fare....
  
 Funny how my headphones sound much darker than my speakers (r u listening JV?).
  
 Here is a laser sharp image (EL3N/Chatham6AS7)  - _analytical_ :




  
 Here is an impressionist image (EL3N/6BL7) - _musical_ :
  




  
  
 What do you prefer?


----------



## mordy

Now I know what i prefer, choosing between the Chatham 6AS7 and the 6BL7 - the 6BL7.
  
 Why?
  
 After listening for a while it became clear to me that notwithstanding the added detail, there was missing a sweetness and musicality with the Chathams. The timbre was also not right - too lightweight in the mid bass. Overall the sound was a bit thin.
  
 Another curious impression: The instrument separation was excellent, but each instrument somehow became distant from the next one, as if the players played their part on their own in isolation, and then the band was mixed together artificially.
  
 YMMV.....


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Now I know what i prefer, choosing between the Chatham 6AS7 and the 6BL7 - the 6BL7.


 
 Have you tested with EL3n as driver pairing with Mullard 6080, GEC 6080A or Bendix 6080 i'm pretty sure you will have plenty of musical joy with GEC 6080.

 I an also suggest you to reverse your setup EL3N as power and 6BL7 or 7F7 as driver.. You should get your impresionist picture stretched getting a very spacious listening.


----------



## UntilThen

Isn't it interesting that this actual box of Chatham 6AS7G says it's similar to CV2523 - which is the GEC 6AS7G.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CHATHAM-NIB-AUDIO-DOUBLE-TRIODE-TUBE-/182001360609?hash=item2a60205ee1:g:92gAAOSwuYVWpJsO


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Encouraged by the cool reviews (cool amp that is with a current draw of 6.8A) I now tried my Chatham 6AS7G with the EL3N tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...here you've hit the nail _*right on the head, lol!!*_...ie. that 'blurring' is precisely the _*distortion*_ that has folks preferring tubes over SS. And, of course, the degree of this distortion - along with its _type _(intermodulation/effect on harmonics etc.) - will vary between tube families.
  
 The Chathams, one could say, have _less_ of this distortion and veer more _towards_ SS...the 6BL7s _more _distortion, and thus what some might call more 'musical' (a very debatable/subjective quality, however! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And not forgetting the effect other elements in the system will have on this 'distortion'.... Couple this with individual preferences in sound presentation and things start getting _very_ complicated indeed, lol! - which is yet another of tube land's attractions/frustrations!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...choices, choices and yet more choices!!


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Isn't it interesting that this actual box of Chatham 6AS7G says it's similar to CV2523 - which is the GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CHATHAM-NIB-AUDIO-DOUBLE-TRIODE-TUBE-/182001360609?hash=item2a60205ee1:g:92gAAOSwuYVWpJsO


 

 This is only stating that the chattham 6AS7G is electrically compatible and should have passed QA test to replace a CV 2523. (Nothing more nothing less)
 You can give a look here : http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/The_6AS7G.php


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Isn't it interesting that this actual box of Chatham 6AS7G says it's similar to CV2523 - which is the GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CHATHAM-NIB-AUDIO-DOUBLE-TRIODE-TUBE-/182001360609?hash=item2a60205ee1:g:92gAAOSwuYVWpJsO


 
  
 They do indeed share many similarities, UT. I suppose the main difference can be summarised as a 'fuller', more fleshed out sound from the GECs....plus that sprinkling of 'Fairy dust' I've attributed to them previously - that certain, wonderful phrase only the French could have conjured  up : "je ne sais quoi"...


----------



## UntilThen

Fuller sound is what comes to mind listening to 6xEL3N. Density. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought of getting rid of the red and have an all greyish black smoke glass look. That will look cool.


----------



## mordy

Hi hpamdr,
  
 Of the three power tubes you mention, I only have the Mullard 6080. They are very nice, but I still prefer the 6BL7. Now I am waiting to run quad BL tubes - the adapters should be here in two weeks or less, I hope. If I can find a bargain on the GEC and Bendix 6080 I'll try them; meanwhile the prices are too high for me.
  
 Tried using the EL3N as power tubes, but prefer them as driver tubes.
  
 Everybody has different preferences and taste and equipment. As mentioned, I use the Elise as a preamp for a ss integrated amp. Listening directly through headphones from the Elise the sound is much darker than through my speakers - don't know why. On the other hand, the Monk ear buds acquit themselves very well.
  
 YMMV......


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 If somebody remarks regarding a ss amp that it sounds "tubey', is this a compliment?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Proposal for Mrs Xuling:

Build 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7G for Feliks Audio Elise:

No Rotation (so that it will be more rigid)
Fits both existing 6AS7G octal sockets at once (again, more rigid)
Bring One set of external Heat wires out the back of the PC board to heat all (6) 6BL7 tubes (also easier to install a small inline on/off switch)





Would be 3x in parallel, so 6.3 volts @ 9 amps

Other ideas to incorporate?





.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Entertainment news says "Tidal" all but sunk:

http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/15/kanye-west-exclusive-gives-tidal-the-illusion-of-hope-as-music-streaming-business-grows-more-brutal/


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> If somebody remarks regarding a ss amp that it sounds "tubey', is this a compliment?


 
  
 Hi mordy...it would, of course, all depend once again on the _degree_ of divergence from what one might call _absolute_ 'accuracy'; neutrality; lack of 'coloration'/distortion etc.
  
 And again, some would welcome this divergence, if the rest of the equipment was delivering a 'harsh' sound and therefore needed 'taming', in the way tubes can fulfil this function. But others, with 'darker' system elements and therefore happy with their 'SS' sound, would obviously _not_ regard it as a compliment lol!
  
 In other words..._yes_...and _no...!!! _




  
 And so it is with _tubes_, of course...I personally find it quite amazing that we can - through tube selection - approach the 'purity' of _good_ SS (with the smoothed 'tubey' edge bonus), *or* move in the opposite direction of pure 'Monet Impressionism'...as long as we have something of the calibre of Elise in which to _put_ them, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This versatility (or rather _lack of!_) is what must be SS's real achilles heel, of course...*unless* - as you prefer to do! - we combine *both, lol!*


----------



## hypnos1

Guys.
  
 Further to my last post, and musing once more on @mordy's pin-sharp, hi-def vs impressionism analogy, I'm emboldened to finally debunk the oft-held assumption that if one's equipment elicits the "detail freak" within, then whatever is reproducing this particular presentation _must_ therefore be somewhat deficient in 'musicality'; warmth; emotion etc. (no reference to you, dear mordy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and as a result is overly 'clinical'; 'analytical'; 'cold' and 'boring'.
  
 Ever since introducing the Siemens C3g to the LittleDots - and Elise - I admit to being such a self-confessed "detail freak". And again, I must admit that _sometimes_, such amazingly detailed tubes _can_ seem 'cool' and not so involving. But, as I have often said in the past, surely you can _never_ have _too much_ detail?.... what really matters is how that detail is *handled*...we *can* enjoy both massive detail _and_ warm, emotional involvement. The trick is, of course, finding just the combination of equipment that brings such joyous results.
  
 Y'all know by now what brings _*my*_ 'best of both Worlds'...despite being a _mammoth_ detail freak, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and I'm quite sure there are in fact a good few other combinations that can deliver this magic. And so my new mantra is...._*DETAIL RULES!!! *_...so long as it's not at the expense of _emotional_ involvement...GOOD HUNTING, folks...for _*both! *_




 ps. The moral of the tale?...Never be afraid of being called a "detail freak" LOL!!


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Entertainment news says "Tidal" all but sunk:
> 
> http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/15/kanye-west-exclusive-gives-tidal-the-illusion-of-hope-as-music-streaming-business-grows-more-brutal/


 
 Interesting that the article didn't even mention Tidal HD. I guess most of the internet music world still doesn't care about anything beyond mp3. Personally, I wouldn't even be here on this thread if Tidal had not come along with a virtually unlimited library of CD quality audio for a reasonable monthly fee. I'd still be occasionally listening to Spotify with some no-name earbuds plugged into my Samsung Note 4.
  
 In the early days of digital, I resisted CDs for years before I moved slowly from vinyl to digital. I still belief vinyl is superior, but I'm just too lazy and old for that today. 
  
 At this point, I personally am not interested in a format beyond CD quality and I'm not willing to spend thousands of dollars to build a FLAC download library. It will be interesting to see whether Tidal will survive or someone else will take its place in providing a large FLAC library service for a reasonable monthly price. If not, at least I still have a pretty decent CD library I can unpack and start listening to.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Guys.
> 
> Further to my last post, and musing once more on @mordy's pin-sharp, hi-def vs impressionism analogy, I'm emboldened to finally debunk the oft-held assumption that if one's equipment elicits the "detail freak" within, then whatever is reproducing this particular presentation _must_ therefore be somewhat deficient in 'musicality'; warmth; emotion etc. (no reference to you, dear mordy!
> 
> ...


 
 H1:  You are my brother with another mother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I *TOTALLY* agree with you !!!!


----------



## WB2016

Hi everyone. I have been reading quite a bit about tube headphone amps here on head-fi and am currently going back and forth between several, especially the Schiit Mjolnir 2 and the Feliks Elise. My budget is around 1000 Euros for the headphone amp and preferably the tubes as well, currently own Fidelio X2 and Grado RS1, looking for a new headphone (ca. 1K€) in 6 months and all will be bought in Europe if I can help it and not enrich customs. Anything else I should consider? Icon Audio HP8 MK2?
  
 The logical choice seems to be the Mjolnir 2, fully balanced, SS (Lisst) or tubes, can handle almost any headphone, however there seems to be much more passion for the Elise. The Elise is much more flexible as to what tubes that can be used and seemingly so musical and resolving that it makes up for the non-balanced design, and it seems to do well with low impedence headphones such as the HE-560 or LCD 2.2. Can someone who has experience compare the two amps a bit more? 
 I was about to get the Elise, because in the end music is not about logic but emotion and passion (for me), but when I started searching for some better tubes, especially the EL3Ns I was very surprised that these are now not 25 Euros but around 50 Euros and all those for sale seem to be in fairly bad condition and almost none matched. 
  
 A theoretical good Elise start seemed to be to get 6 EL3Ns, stick with the Tung Sol driver tubes, and maybe another pair or two of driver tubes, and lots of adapters but where do you get those tubes? Is matching important, and for which pairings? Does the quad of EL3Ns increase the power of the amp? The charm of the Elise, for me at least, was using exceptional tubes that are not prohibitively expensive, but what happens when these tubes become pricey and scarce?
  
  
 Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Interesting that the article didn't even mention Tidal HD. I guess most of the internet music world still doesn't care about anything beyond mp3. Personally, I wouldn't even be here on this thread if Tidal had not come along with a virtually unlimited library of CD quality audio for a reasonable monthly fee. I'd still be occasionally listening to Spotify with some no-name earbuds plugged into my Samsung Note 4.
> 
> In the early days of digital, I resisted CDs for years before I moved slowly from vinyl to digital. I still belief vinyl is superior, but I'm just too lazy and old for that today.
> 
> At this point, I personally am not interested in a format beyond CD quality and I'm not willing to spend thousands of dollars to build a FLAC download library. It will be interesting to see whether Tidal will survive or someone else will take its place in providing a large FLAC library service for a reasonable monthly price. If not, at least I still have a pretty decent CD library I can unpack and start listening to.




This article does mention the "lossless" aspect of Tidal:

http://gizmodo.com/not-even-kanye-can-save-tidal-1759177765

I think your saying: CD quality FLAC is all you require, your not willing to spend lots of money to replace your current library to "High Resolution FLAC" files....

Right?


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> This article does mention the "lossless" aspect of Tidal:
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/not-even-kanye-can-save-tidal-1759177765
> 
> ...


 
 I may have my terminology wrong. I don't really think of myself as having a library. Just the favorites I've saved in Tidal HD and a small CD collection packed away.
  
 All I'm saying is that Tidal HD:  (A) gives the the level of sonic quality that makes it worth while for me to own equipment like the Elise and my T1s, (B) is convenient, (C) gives me just about every recording I probably would ever want to listen to and (D) is available for a reasonable monthly cost. If I have to go back to mp3 as my main source of music, I'd probably listen mainly to Spotify on my Note 4 with my newly acquired Monk V earbuds. 
  
 My comment about FLAC files and CD quality probably didn't make much sense.


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hi everyone. I have been reading quite a bit about tube headphone amps here on head-fi and am currently going back and forth between several, especially the Schiit Mjolnir 2 and the Feliks Elise. My budget is around 1000 Euros for the headphone amp and preferably the tubes as well, currently own Fidelio X2 and Grado RS1, looking for a new headphone (ca. 1K€) in 6 months and all will be bought in Europe if I can help it and not enrich customs. Anything else I should consider? Icon Audio HP8 MK2?
> 
> The logical choice seems to be the Mjolnir 2, fully balanced, SS (Lisst) or tubes, can handle almost any headphone, however there seems to be much more passion for the Elise. The Elise is much more flexible as to what tubes that can be used and seemingly so musical and resolving that it makes up for the non-balanced design, and it seems to do well with low impedence headphones such as the HE-560 or LCD 2.2. Can someone who has experience compare the two amps a bit more?
> I was about to get the Elise, because in the end music is not about logic but emotion and passion (for me), but when I started searching for some better tubes, especially the EL3Ns I was very surprised that these are now not 25 Euros but around 50 Euros and all those for sale seem to be in fairly bad condition and almost none matched.
> ...


 
 Hi WB,
  
 Congrats on 1st post. 
  
 It's exciting shopping for a tube amp. So many choices. it's mind boggling. Then you get to tubes and it's even more mind boggling. I don't think anyone here have both the Schitt Mijolnir 2 and Elise to be able to do a comparison review of both amps. If you can hear both amps yourself that would be ideal but that is obviously quite difficult.
  
 I have the same dilemma when making my purchase but I went with Elise and have never look back. 
  
 Choice of tubes in Elise depends on your sound preference and other associated gear. My ideal setup would still be a choice pair of power and driver tubes. Simple, no fuss and look neat and nice. However I'm not one to settle for one set of tubes. That would be limiting myself if buying a tube amp. This is why anyone buying a tube amp will invariably get involve in tube rolling for themselves.
  
 I have notice that using EL3N as power tubes with non EL3N drivers, you get a lesser gain volume. For example if I am using Mazda 6N7G drivers with quad EL3N on T1, my volume setting would be 12noon. If I swap the drivers to EL3N for a complete EL3N setup, my volume setting is 10 to 10.5. That's a big difference in volume gain. I do not know why that is so. However in both scenario, whether using quad EL3N as power tubes with non EL3N drivers or a strictly EL3N setup (4 or 6xEL3N) the tone appeal to me and a few others here. Will it appeal to you? I don't know.  You have to try it for yourself.
  
 EL3N can still be gotten from Acoustics Dimensions for 30euro each not including shipping. 
  
 If you do decide on Elise, I would recommend that you buy a few set of tubes and then decide for yourself what combination is your ideal tone. It might well be that you will love a few combinations because Elise does sound good with any tubes.
  
 Cheers,
 UT
  
 ps...matching tubes does not seem important in my experience. Look at all the different combinations we have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
*pss.. what happens when tubes becomes pricey and scare? We upgrade to Stax. *


----------



## pctazhp

wb2016 said:


> Hi everyone. I have been reading quite a bit about tube headphone amps here on head-fi and am currently going back and forth between several, especially the Schiit Mjolnir 2 and the Feliks Elise. My budget is around 1000 Euros for the headphone amp and preferably the tubes as well, currently own Fidelio X2 and Grado RS1, looking for a new headphone (ca. 1K€) in 6 months and all will be bought in Europe if I can help it and not enrich customs. Anything else I should consider? Icon Audio HP8 MK2?
> 
> The logical choice seems to be the Mjolnir 2, fully balanced, SS (Lisst) or tubes, can handle almost any headphone, however there seems to be much more passion for the Elise. The Elise is much more flexible as to what tubes that can be used and seemingly so musical and resolving that it makes up for the non-balanced design, and it seems to do well with low impedence headphones such as the HE-560 or LCD 2.2. Can someone who has experience compare the two amps a bit more?
> I was about to get the Elise, because in the end music is not about logic but emotion and passion (for me), but when I started searching for some better tubes, especially the EL3Ns I was very surprised that these are now not 25 Euros but around 50 Euros and all those for sale seem to be in fairly bad condition and almost none matched.
> ...


 
 WB. You will probably get a lot of feedback from people who know a lot more than I do. I don't know what to suggest will be your best choice. But I do believe you are making a mistake if you believe a particular amp is the logical choice because it is balanced. I won't go into this because balanced vs se has been written about at length elsewhere. I will tell you that I have the Valhalla 2 and as I have said elsewhere the Elise isn't even in the same universe.
  
 You are right that tubes for the Elise are getting more difficult to find and are getting more expensive. But you could buy 3 sets of EL3Ns here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331644471737?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT, Yes, they are expensive, but I have ordered my 3 sets from this seller and am very satisfied with the quality. That would be about $270. It would give you the quad EL3Ns you need for the power sockets and a set for drivers. You would need the these adapters for the quads: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191769639044?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 But this would keep you under your $1000 budget and I'm pretty sure you would be happy. I think it is not unusual for tubes to have a live span of 10,000 hours. They may outlive us, or by the time they go to tube heaven, we will have discovered that the only way to accurately reproduce music is through the use of ancient dinosaur eggs discovered by UT while exploring the Blue Mountains.


----------



## pctazhp

Sorry (((


----------



## pctazhp

If this song (written by Canada's great Ian Tyson) doesn't touch you, then you EITHER have never been hopelessly in love OR don't have an Elise to play it. Last week I talked about how during my college years I loved to go to JDs at the river bottom on Scottsdale Road to dance to Waylon Jennings who played live there for several years. The Coors beer also certainly added to the intellectual value of the experience!!!


----------



## UntilThen

My first listen with Elise and HD650 is with C3G and Tung Sol 5998 and this was my 1st impression. I didn't start with the stock tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 The question is, if you would wire the tubes in series, you would need 18.9V and 3A (did I get that right?).
  
 Don't know if series or parallel makes a difference in sound - I am sure Glenn could advise us on this.
  
 The other question is if you use 9A, how big a margin do you need in the power supply to cope with the in-rush current on start-up?


----------



## hpamdr

wb2016 said:


> Hi everyone. I have been reading quite a bit about tube headphone amps here on head-fi and am currently going back and forth between several, especially the Schiit Mjolnir 2 and the Feliks Elise. My budget is around 1000 Euros for the headphone amp and preferably the tubes as well, currently own Fidelio X2 and Grado RS1, looking for a new headphone (ca. 1K€) in 6 months and all will be bought in Europe if I can help it and not enrich customs. Anything else I should consider? Icon Audio HP8 MK2?
> 
> The logical choice seems to be the Mjolnir 2, fully balanced, SS (Lisst) or tubes, can handle almost any headphone, however there seems to be much more passion for the Elise. The Elise is much more flexible as to what tubes that can be used and seemingly so musical and resolving that it makes up for the non-balanced design, and it seems to do well with low impedence headphones such as the HE-560 or LCD 2.2. Can someone who has experience compare the two amps a bit more?
> I was about to get the Elise, because in the end music is not about logic but emotion and passion (for me), but when I started searching for some better tubes, especially the EL3Ns I was very surprised that these are now not 25 Euros but around 50 Euros and all those for sale seem to be in fairly bad condition and almost none matched.
> ...


 
  
 Welcome  WB2016, FA Elise is a wonderfull amplifier and even with stock tubes it sound great even beter than many other tube amp.
 The advantage of Elise is also that many cheap tubes can sound great and enjoy you for just some € ant it gives really good result on almos any headphone from 32 to 600 Ohms even if it is a real OTL design.
 You also get a single line pre-amplifer for the same price 

 You have to take into account that you need a good source/DAC to really exploit it.
 You will have to wait before getting it at home.
 Feliks Audio Folks are great and the technical support is wonderfull.

 Chasing for tubes is another game that can ruin your bank account or take time to find the good bargain and it is more ar less a never ending story.
 If you have soldering skills you can make your tube adapters yourself.
 Reading this thread gives you some idea on how versatil is the Elise, but you will miss how good is the amp is once burned ith stock tubes as not all Elise owner are writing in this thread.

 //By the way in wich country are you located ?


----------



## UntilThen

It's colour day.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Just saw that you got a pair of Monk VE ear buds. Could you comment on how they sound (especially in comparison with the T1 lol)
  
 Personally, these are the best ear buds I have heard, especially taking into the account the price.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> The question is, if you would wire the tubes in series, you would need 18.9V and 3A (did I get that right?).
> 
> ...




@Mordy

I am proceeding with 3x in parallel for 6.3 volts @ 4.5 amps per side - 9 amp total draw.

My power supply is a 19.6 amp with the same 15 amp regulator you showed earlier.

Hoping to get it built "bridge style", no rotation. I have asked for a single set of +/- wires to come out the back of the adapter (PC Board) to supply all (6) 6BL7 tubes at once. I measured 5 and 3/8 of an inch between the center of each guide post on the 6AS7 sockets and calculated that to be 85.7mm (Mrs Xuling needs mm for this measurement). Someone please go behind me, and make sure I have that correct.

Mordy - don't know what the in-rush current is or for how long it rushes...but 2x 6BL7 has not damaged the Elise Power supply yet (I heat the two driver tubes externally). So I predict that a 15 amp supply will be okay for this 9 amp draw and unknown in-rush demand. 

We will certainly be finding out!

Go check my 6AS7 center pin measurements, please...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ouy!

136.5 mm between the 6AS7 socket guide pins.

5 and 3/8 inches or 136.5mm



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

After multiple 6BL7's as powers and vintage 6SN7's as drivers...

There is no going back to any other tube configuration for me. 

If you are a details freak, this is the setup for you. The amount of additional details and apparent distance between instruments as well as bass depth and articulation, is remarkable. 

Fortunately, 6BL7's are not expensive. Vintage 1940's 6SN7's are a bit pricey, but I doubt you will mind one bit, once rewarded with the sonics. 

150 ohm or less impedance headphones, the 2x 6BL7 per 6AS7 adapters will work. 
300 ohm or higher impedance headphones, would suggest the future 3x 6BL7 per side adapter. 

The good: the Sonics...best sound this amp can produce, imo.

The bad: you should also know how to heat tubes externally. 

Certainly suggest external heat with 2x 6BL7 per 6AS7 and absolutely required if wanting to use the future 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 adapter. 

The 3x per, will require a good 15 amp DC power supply. With the 2x per, you can get away with a much smaller DC supply and externally heat your 6SN7's. 

Cheers to the EXTRA LUCKY multiple 6BL7 as powers' users...


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 I have a plastic ruler marked in mm - I get 136mm between the centers of the guide pin holes on the chassis sockets.
  
 Using the socket savers the distance comes to 135mm.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> I have a plastic ruler marked in mm - I get 136mm between the centers of the guide pin holes on the chassis sockets.
> 
> Using the socket savers the distance comes to 135mm.




Yes, thank you. I corrected my original mm calculation to be 136.5mm between the middle of the guide pins.

Mrs Xuling wants to again produce 2 seperate adapters, but I am pushing for one long bridge, for 2 reasons:

1 - The "rotation" feature is a detriment. I had to hot glue my adapters to keep them from falling apart. The one bridge concept will prevent rotation and make the adapter more rigid. 

2 - I really want one power cable, to supply all 6 of the 6BL7 tubes. I can then add a small inline switch to more easily turn the powers on/off. Two sets of heater wires coming out is a detriment to simplicity. 

I am sure Mrs Xuling would prefer the separate 3x adapters that rotate, so she could sell more, to differing amp owners, but if I don't get the bridge style for this amp only, and one external heat power cord, I will not be making the purchase. 

Cheers. 

Thanks Mordy for the double check on the 6AS7 distance.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> The question is, if you would wire the tubes in series, you would need 18.9V and 3A (did I get that right?).


 
  
 Or 12.6V at 4.5A.


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## mordy

I assume the right tube is the 6BL7 - I am stoking the same fire....


----------



## mordy

Oskari,
  
 Are your numbers for 2 or 3 tubes?


----------



## hpamdr

oskari said:


> Or 12.6V at 4.5A.


 

 It depends of what you call in serie or //,
  
 All tubes in // is 6.3V 6 x1.5 x 1.20  =  11A (including 20% margin)
  
 All tube in serie 6 x 6.3 = 37.8V and 1.5x1.2 = 1.8A
  
 After you can mix with sides ..... All tube in one side in serie 3 x 6.3 = 18.9V   and both side in // 3.6A This is the range of laptop power supply .... 
  
 As you suggest all tube in // by side and sides in serie 12.6V  and 5.4A
  
 Probably Feliks Audio folks can help JV to find the best scheme or build him an extended amp based on his Elise....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Oskari,
> 
> Are your numbers for 2 or 3 tubes?




6, like yours. You can have either 3 heaters in series, in parallel; or 3 heaters in parallel, in series. (Plus all the other options.)


----------



## mordy

Thanks for the clarifications.
  
 Is there any difference in sound either way?


----------



## hpamdr

I was just helping to do some maths.. Personally, I dislike external power supply and do not even want to try on my beloved Elise.
 The ones that designed the Elise are the only ones that can give  accurate advise or warning. Send a mail and get a clear answer. After that you can do what you prefer.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Hi WB,
> 
> Congrats on 1st post.
> 
> ...


 
 Hello UT,
  
  
 thanks for the quick and informative reply and for the info on the EL3N. After talking to some more people I am currently leaning towards the Elise. Also want to use the Elise as a preamp, which would be running for much longer periods of time. The reduction in gain is something I would like to avoid, because of the mostly low impedence hps.  I am still a little unsure as to the benefits of running a quad of EL3Ns, sound quality, power, bass response??? I assume that all the combos are safe. I remember that there were some issues with C3G and the little dots.
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1:  You are my brother with another mother
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks bro...I do feel akin to all here. We have indeed grown into quite a family...of all shapes and sizes - and preferences. *Room for all, lol!! *







  


wb2016 said:


> Hi everyone. I have been reading quite a bit about tube headphone amps here on head-fi and am currently going back and forth between several, especially the Schiit Mjolnir 2 and the Feliks Elise. My budget is around 1000 Euros for the headphone amp and preferably the tubes as well, currently own Fidelio X2 and Grado RS1, looking for a new headphone (ca. 1K€) in 6 months and all will be bought in Europe if I can help it and not enrich customs. Anything else I should consider? Icon Audio HP8 MK2?
> 
> The logical choice seems to be the Mjolnir 2, fully balanced, SS (Lisst) or tubes, can handle almost any headphone, however there seems to be much more passion for the Elise. The Elise is much more flexible as to what tubes that can be used and seemingly so musical and resolving that it makes up for the non-balanced design, and it seems to do well with low impedence headphones such as the HE-560 or LCD 2.2. Can someone who has experience compare the two amps a bit more?
> I was about to get the Elise, because in the end music is not about logic but emotion and passion (for me), but when I started searching for some better tubes, especially the EL3Ns I was very surprised that these are now not 25 Euros but around 50 Euros and all those for sale seem to be in fairly bad condition and almost none matched.
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the thread WB...such choices never are easy, but you've probably gathered by now that the Elise is a remarkably good (and _very_ versatile) amp at a very reasonable price. I doubt there are many that can match it for this money - or a good bit more!
  
 The guys have already given you plenty of good advice, and will continue to help as much as they can...we've a good family here now, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> I was just helping to do some maths.. Personally, I dislike external power supply and do not even want to try on my beloved Elise.
> 
> The ones that designed the Elise are the only ones that can give  accurate advise or warning. Send a mail and get a clear answer. After that you can do what you prefer.




External heat does not bother me in the least.

If I heat my preferred tubes externally, there will be no stress on Elise and no need to bother the Feliks folks who are quite busy trying to keep up with demand.

Mrs Xuling says to wait...she will design the board. 

I hope she understands the desire for a "bridge style" "with single heater cord out the rear of the pc board", "no rotation options", "use brass and not the plastic male octal plugs".

Fingers crossed.

Cheers to the Lucky External Heater peeps...


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> WB. You will probably get a lot of feedback from people who know a lot more than I do. I don't know what to suggest will be your best choice. But I do believe you are making a mistake if you believe a particular amp is the logical choice because it is balanced. I won't go into this because balanced vs se has been written about at length elsewhere. I will tell you that I have the Valhalla 2 and as I have said elsewhere the Elise isn't even in the same universe.
> 
> You are right that tubes for the Elise are getting more difficult to find and are getting more expensive. But you could buy 3 sets of EL3Ns here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331644471737?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT, Yes, they are expensive, but I have ordered my 3 sets from this seller and am very satisfied with the quality. That would be about $270. It would give you the quad EL3Ns you need for the power sockets and a set for drivers. You would need the these adapters for the quads: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191769639044?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> But this would keep you under your $1000 budget and I'm pretty sure you would be happy. I think it is not unusual for tubes to have a live span of 10,000 hours. They may outlive us, or by the time they go to tube heaven, we will have discovered that the only way to accurately reproduce music is through the use of ancient dinosaur eggs discovered by UT while exploring the Blue Mountains.


 

 Thanks for the good link. These tubes look like something that you could look at  and hopefully listen to. I plan on using the amp as a preamp that will be on quite a bit of time so the 10,000 hours will last around a thousand days I suspect. Not sure about moving to Stax as an alternative, at least not a financially logical conclusion. Luckily the hobby has little to do with logic.
  
 I just talked to Lukasz and he told me they are designing a new balanced Elise, but this will not be ready until likely the second half of 2017, so until then I can play around with tube rolling to find the right combo.
  
 Take Care
 WB


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hello UT,
> 
> 
> thanks for the quick and informative reply and for the info on the EL3N. After talking to some more people I am currently leaning towards the Elise. Also want to use the Elise as a preamp, which would be running for much longer periods of time. The reduction in gain is something I would like to avoid, because of the mostly low impedence hps.  I am still a little unsure as to the benefits of running a quad of EL3Ns, sound quality, power, bass response??? I assume that all the combos are safe. I remember that there were some issues with C3G and the little dots.
> ...


 

 Hi WB,
  
 Elise works very well as a preamp. I've personally tried it. CitizenLin and Mordy use it a lot. However I prefer using Elise as a dedicated headphone amp. With a capable headphone like the T1, it's a sonic treat.
  
 Let me expand on EL3N again. Reduction in gain is only encountered when you use EL3N as power tubes, whether in pair or quad and with non EL3N drivers. In all cases, if you use EL3N as drivers and irrespective of using EL3N as power tubes or other power tubes, your gain is not reduced. So if you decide to run 2xEL3N with 2xChatham 6AS7G or 2x5998, you have no problems.
  
 Quad EL3Ns, as well as quad 6SN7 and 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7 as power tubes benefits are mainly drive and control and a fullness in sound. Soundstage seems expanded too. Not massive difference but one that I can detect. The texture becomes more dense. With EL3N as drivers and using quad, I also notice a gain in volume, which is a surprise to me. Of course H1 will tell you his setup using EL3N with GEC 6AS7G will do that too. In which case, that is a big plus. I'm always of the opinion that running a pair of drivers and a pair of power tubes in Elise is the ideal scenario. I'm sure Feliks Audio will agree too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There are other options besides using EL3N. C3G has a very detail sound and has an amazing treble quality. Some find it too much. When paired with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998, it's a sonic treat. What headphone are you using? Other more conventional good sounding tubes are 7N7 with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998. Some of the good 6SN7 produce very good results too. A lot of us love various european brands of 6N7G, as well as the externally heated FDD20. My suggestion is to listen with the stock power tubes initially and then decide how you want to proceed from there. After your initial listen you can let us know what improvements you'd like to see in the sound and we can give you some pointers and recommendations.
  
 All combinations shown here are safe. Some of the later ones are using dual adapters and you need to be sure the total current draw does not exceed the threshold. The total current draw in Elise should not exceed 6.8A, which is using EL3N with 6AS7G. If in doubt, feel free to ask us.
  
 Cheers,
 UT


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks bro...I do feel akin to all here. We have indeed grown into quite a family...of all shapes and sizes - and preferences. *Room for all, lol!! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Hypnos1,
  
 yeah I know, my current thoughts are on getting a good tube amp and experimenting with reasonably priced tubes. Just spoke to Lukasz and he told me they are designing a balanced version of the Elise but likely will not be out until the second half of 2017. So the current Elise should be a good start.
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> My first listen with Elise and HD650 is with C3G and Tung Sol 5998 and this was my 1st impression. I didn't start with the stock tubes.


 
  
 Hello Untilthen,
  
 yeah I remember C3Gs being a  big thing with the Little Dot community, but there were some issues regarding safe power levels, etc. I assume the Elise solves these issues. How do the C3Gs compare to EL3N? Have heard almost nothing about the C3Gs since the use of EL3Ns here. I have seen a dual C3G adapter:
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Dual-C3G-TO-6SN7-B65-5692-tube-converter-adapter-6-3V-/191778618216?hash=item2ca6e57b68:g:~UEAAOSwwPhWkRq7
 is this safe for the Elise? Are dual a better idea than regular for C3G? Thanks.
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

Mrs Xuling says the "3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 socket" PC board will be 9.8 inches wide, so must have gotten the "Bridge Style" directive, okay.








.


----------



## Suuup

Elise's newest playmate, the T5p V2 (second from below). 
  
 So far, I have bad hum with Fivre 6N7G and FDD20. No hum with C3g though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Elise's newest playmate, the T5p V2 (second from below).
> 
> So far, I have bad hum with Fivre 6N7G and FDD20. No hum with C3g though.




That's quite a pile o' Beyers' you have there, Suuup!

New ones hum, but higher impedance 'phones do not?




.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> That's quite a pile o' Beyers' you have there, Suuup!
> 
> New ones hum, but higher impedance 'phones do not?
> 
> ...


 
 Exactly. T5p is 25 ohm impedance, which is probably the reason it hums. With C3g though, there is no hum at all.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Exactly. T5p is 25 ohm impedance, which is probably the reason it hums. With C3g though, there is no hum at all.




That's an interesting observation, Suuup...


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Exactly. T5p is 25 ohm impedance, which is probably the reason it hums. With C3g though, there is no hum at all.


 
  
 Hi S...the C3g is one amazing tube, to be sure lol!


----------



## Suuup

Okay, with the C3g, I have distortion at 2 o clock. Luckily, I only have to turn the knob to 7-8 o clock to get to my usual listening level. 
  
 One of my C3g's is acting out right now though. It's hissing badly. Not sure what triggered it, it was fine 10 minutes ago.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Okay, with the C3g, I have distortion at 2 o clock. Luckily, I only have to turn the knob to 7-8 o clock to get to my usual listening level.
> 
> One of my C3g's is acting out right now though. It's hissing badly. Not sure what triggered it, it was fine 10 minutes ago.




One of my C3g's recently started acting up as well. Mystery, no rough treatment. Luckily, I have one more working C3g still in the metal sheath. 

They do seem to be fragile little gems.


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Hi Hypnos1,
> 
> yeah I know, my current thoughts are on getting a good tube amp and experimenting with reasonably priced tubes. Just spoke to Lukasz and he told me they are designing a balanced version of the Elise but likely will not be out until the second half of 2017. So the current Elise should be a good start.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again WB...so they're going ahead with the idea of a balanced version? Thanks for keeping us up to date (already!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 You mentioned "issues" with the C3g in the LDs...in all my time at the main Rolling Guide, the only problems I encountered were to do with the fragile nature of its glass base, and required _extreme_ care when inserting into, or removing from, the adapter...any side-to-side, rocking/'rolling' motion can easily crack said base. Did some other issue appear at all?...
 No-one has had any problems with the C3g in Elise - apart from a very rare instance of extreme RFI/EMI interference adversely affecting this tube...CHEERS!


----------



## Suuup

ECC31 has a low hum. Not too bad. I could probably live with this. Distortion at 1 o clock. 
  
 It seems I can't use any of the tubes that @aqsw can't use. @aqsw have you tried C3g?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Just saw that you got a pair of Monk VE ear buds. Could you comment on how they sound (especially in comparison with the T1 lol)
> 
> Personally, these are the best ear buds I have heard, especially taking into the account the price.


 
 mordy: The fact that someone could produce and sell something for $5 that I can put in my ears and hear noise seems to me about as likely as eliminating gravity. But as you probably know, they did that and a lot more with the Monk VEs. The T1 Gen 2s cost 220 times as much as the Monks - talk about the rule of diminishing returns !!!!
  
 The bare Monks (without the donuts) happen to fit pretty well into my ears. It takes a few seconds to get the right adjustment when I put them in, but if I'm just sitting and moving normally they stay put and I don't have any microphonic problems with the cord.
  
 Running with EL3Ns/6BL7s they sound amazingly good, albeit there is slight hum which is not volume level dependent. They are not quite as detailed as the T1s and a little fatiguing - although that might be improved with different tube combinations. Mid-ranges are clear, but lack the body and bloom of the T1s. They have good bass when properly adjusted in my ears, but obviously not equal to the T1s. The sound stage is good. Not at the T1 level, but not a noticeable problem when just enjoying the music with them. 
  
 It is no surprise that they will not be replacing my T1s. But they are fun to listen to.
  
 That I am even trying to compare them to the T1s is pretty absurd, but they are not entirely embarrassed by the T1s. For my Note 4 they are wonderful )))


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> Elise's newest playmate, the T5p V2 (second from below).
> 
> So far, I have bad hum with Fivre 6N7G and FDD20. No hum with C3g though.


 
  
 Say goodbye to hum problems. Seems this is the perfect opportunity for your next upgrade: http://www.head-fi.org/t/786512/sennheiser-orpheus-successor-the-sennheiser-he1060-hev1060-first-look/1620#post_12346261


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 My suggestion to compare the T1 with the $5 VE Monk earbuds was tongue-in-cheek, but the very fact that they could even be compared speaks volumes about this little truly inexpensive gem. Many thanks for your thoughtful review.
  
 I can recommend these little earbuds to anybody who needs music on the go without the need to lug large headphones along.
  
 The next step is to ask Mr. Lee of Venture Electronics and his talented designer kk to come out with a full size headphone....


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> ECC31 has a low hum. Not too bad. I could probably live with this. Distortion at 1 o clock.
> 
> It seems I can't use any of the tubes that @aqsw can't use. @aqsw have you tried C3g?


 
 No . I have not. I've been sticking to the 6080s powers and 2031/el3n drivers.


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> No . I have not. I've been sticking to the 6080s powers and 2031/el3n drivers.



How bad is the hum? Do you still use Elise over your Liquid Carbon? 

I don't think you'll get hum from C3g. No promises though.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> My suggestion to compare the T1 with the $5 VE Monk earbuds was tongue-in-cheek, but the very fact that they could even be compared speaks volumes about this little truly inexpensive gem. Many thanks for your thoughtful review.
> 
> ...


 
 mordy)) I understood your suggestion was tongue in cheek)) But thought I'd take a shot at comparison just for fun. Really, the T1 is much better than the Monk, but for $5 the Monk is probably the bargain of the century !!!
  
 It sure seems like Mr. Lee should be able to develop a very special and reasonable full size phone. But the problem with full size includes the resonance problems in the cavity, which companies like Sennheiser have dealt with (without complete success) in both their HD700s and HD800s. I hope you are successful in persuading Mr. Lee to have a go with it.


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> Welcome  WB2016, FA Elise is a wonderfull amplifier and even with stock tubes it sound great even beter than many other tube amp.
> The advantage of Elise is also that many cheap tubes can sound great and enjoy you for just some € ant it gives really good result on almos any headphone from 32 to 600 Ohms even if it is a real OTL design.
> You also get a single line pre-amplifer for the same price
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello HPAMRD,
  
 thanks for the imput. DAC is 02ODAC, FiiOX5, and currently borrowing a Rega DAC. Will decide if I go for a multibit Bifrost, depends on how the Rega DAC does and when I actually get the Elise from Lukasz  Like the Fiio better than the ODAC, less sterile and I have a lot of highres 96 and 192k WAV files. For some reason I prefer WAV over FLAC, honestly could not tell you why, maybe biased by some recording engineers I know, but I tend to pick WAV over FLAC consistently. Some Vinyl with a Rega P3 but actually far less now than high res.
  
 Yeah I thought that they (Feliks) would have reduced the wait time but it's still around 6-7 weeks. Strange that they do not build Batches of Elise to reduce costs and time. You got to wait for most better things so this will give me some time to search for EL3N tubes and C3Gs.  
  
 I'm from Austria but tend to swing up and down Europe a lot. UK, NL, DE, A, IT.
  
 Cheers,
 WB


----------



## hpamdr

wb2016 said:


> Hello HPAMRD,
> 
> thanks for the imput. DAC is 02ODAC, FiiOX5, and currently borrowing a Rega DAC. Will decide if I go for a multibit Bifrost, depends on how the Rega DAC does and when I actually get the Elise from Lukasz  Like the Fiio better than the ODAC, less sterile and I have a lot of highres 96 and 192k WAV files. For some reason I prefer WAV over FLAC, honestly could not tell you why, maybe biased by some recording engineers I know, but I tend to pick WAV over FLAC consistently. Some Vinyl with a Rega P3 but actually far less now than high res.
> 
> ...


 

 O2Dac is a good start and beter than nothing but Rega Dac-R is really a great sounding dac a bit warm and transparent.
 WAV is nice format even if it use many space, if you like this format minimserver is an upnp  musical server that perform well.
 WAV up to 96Khz is the format that use almost no resource from you computer and minimise decoding artefact  it just push PCM to your DAC if you do not add filters.... // DSF or DSD using proper DAC is the same but using a lot of data that needs a lot of IO.....
  
 About wait time, Elise is still handcrafted and tested before being shipped and more elise are ordered more ou have to wait..To go much faster you have to make a industrial process instead of an handcrated anf if you receive more order you just externalise build batch to reduce cost and sell from stock. 

 So Welcome EuroCitizen !


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hello Untilthen,
> 
> yeah I remember C3Gs being a  big thing with the Little Dot community, but there were some issues regarding safe power levels, etc. I assume the Elise solves these issues. How do the C3Gs compare to EL3N? Have heard almost nothing about the C3Gs since the use of EL3Ns here. I have seen a dual C3G adapter:
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Dual-C3G-TO-6SN7-B65-5692-tube-converter-adapter-6-3V-/191778618216?hash=item2ca6e57b68:g:~UEAAOSwwPhWkRq7
> ...


 

 Hi WB,
  
 C3G was the first tube to be widely adopted and loved by the Elise community. H1 loved it so much from the LD days that he made it a point to get it going in Elise given the first opportunity. Eventually he did so with help from Glenn on the pins hook up with 6SN7 to get it working as a strapped triode in Elise as drivers. By the time I got my Elise, they have found a new love in ECC31 and most people were starting to shift from C3G to ECC31.
  
 C3G sound is bright, clear, extended on the highs and when paired with an energetic power tube like Tung Sol 5998, it is a lively sound and one that will keep you captivated. I find it fatiguing on extended listen though. ECC31 is very different from C3G. It's strength is in the mids and bass with a more subdue treble which most Elise owners found a welcome change coming from C3G.
  
 Then we move on to FDD20 which is another wonder tube. This is neither like the C3G or the ECC31 but more like having the best traits from best tubes. It has a less forward presentation than 6N7G, clear on treble, excellent mids and a just right bass.
  
 Next came EL3N and this is the best of the lot (in my opinion). I was glad that finally a tube came along and sounded very good to me and I can finally not use the external power fed FDD20 with the laptop power supply. EL3N inherits all the good traits of C3G, ECC31 and FDD20 and sounds most agreeable to me. The whole FR seems linear and bass does not encrouched on the mids or the treble on the mids. It is a linear presentation.
  
 In all these scenarios, we've been using these tubes as drivers until lately with the arrival of EL3N, where we got adventurous and try some of these as power tubes and found that they did work quite well. I've not done enough testing using C3G as power tubes to be convinced that it is the way to go. I have no idea about dual C3G and I have not heard anyone using it on Elise yet.
  
 Lastly, it is safe to use C3G as drivers in Elise with the adapters from Mrs XuLing. C3G has been used in Elise for quite a while now and there are certainly no problems with my usage.
  
 I've always acknowledge @hypnos1 for introducing these tubes to our midst because they certainly do sound very good.
  
 Best
 UT


----------



## UntilThen

A new toy just arrived. With Elise hooked up as preamp, I'll find out how it sound with games and movies on the PC.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi JV,
> ...


 

 If it were me I would hook 3 in series = 18.9 volts @ 1.5 amps then parallel the two sets in will be 3 amps
 Then use a cheep 19 volt laptop power supply to power it most laptop supply's are at least 3 amps.
 No regulator needed that will produce lots of heat.
 Or just get a regular 6.3 volt transformer if you are going to run them all in parallel 9 amps this one will easily handle it.
 http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen

I found my Adzam "Miniwatt" 6SN7GTs. Oddly, they were not happy driving EL3Ns. As a sanity check, they do OK driving stock Svetlanas. I'm not immediately impressed, though.


----------



## aqsw

suuup said:


> How bad is the hum? Do you still use Elise over your Liquid Carbon?
> 
> I don't think you'll get hum from C3g. No promises though.




I have no hum since I grounded to the rca jack. Carbon hs still not been used since I burned it in. All my listening is done on the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> I found my Adzam "Miniwatt" 6SN7GTs. Oddly, they were not happy driving EL3Ns. As a sanity check, they do OK driving stock Svetlanas. I'm not immediately impressed, though.


 

 At least it's one for your collection. Name sound exotic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I prefer using EL3N as drivers unless it's an all EL3N setup.
  
 I'm having very good results here with EL3N as drivers and 2x6BL7 with 2x6SN7 as power tubes. It will take a longer time to form a lasting impression.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I have no hum since I grounded to the rca jack. Carbon hs still not been used since I burned it in. All my listening is done on the Elise.


 

 AQ that is good to hear. I'm really glad for you.


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359glenn,
  
 Thank you very much for clarifying this. For me the easiest way is using a 6.3V set-up since I already have this.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> If it were me I would hook 3 in series = 18.9 volts @ 1.5 amps then parallel the two sets in will be 3 amps
> Then use a cheep 19 volt laptop power supply to power it most laptop supply's are at least 3 amps.
> No regulator needed that will produce lots of heat.
> Or just get a regular 6.3 volt transformer if you are going to run them all in parallel 9 amps this one will easily handle it.
> http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/




Yes, thank you, Glenn...

I think I will order the 6.3 volt transformer you link to.

Appreciate!




.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Adzam is just Mazda backwards - a Philips way of branding.
  
 In the 30's electric light bulbs used to be called mazdas.
  
 I know, somebody is going to say something about the Mazda car brand...lol.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> At least it's one for your collection. Name sound exotic. :bigsmile_face:




As Mordy says, _Adzam_ is just _Mazda_ backwards. 

But these are plain old _Miniwatts_ which don't want to show that brand either. Everything's towards the transformer...

Anyway, they may improve some with burn-in, or maybe not.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> _Adzam_ is just _Mazda_ backwards.


 
 How clever.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> In the 30's electric light bulbs used to be called mazdas.




Yep, MBLE (Manufacture belge de lampes électriques) made _Mazda_ bulbs and _Adzam_ tubes.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I know, somebody is going to say something about the Mazda car brand...lol.




BTW, have there been any photos of Yugos in this thread? :rolleyes: We should find some Ei tubes...


----------



## aqsw

aqsw said:


> I have no hum since I grounded to the rca jack. Carbon hs still not been used since I burned it in. All my listening is done on the Elise.





I'm still waiting on my new dac which is getting built. When that arrives the Hegel and Carbon will be going to my office. It will get used there to a certain extent.
I just tried it and it really does sound very good. It almost sounds like a tube amp. I have no regrets getting it, although it hasn't been used very much. 

The balanced Elise is #1 on my list now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Long live Multi 6BL7 / 6SN7...






Jean Luc Ponty never sounded so wonderful.

No Absolute Time...


----------



## Suuup

I have to say something about the EL3N.
 A lot of people love it, *but there are some of us (albeit the minority) who doesn't like the sound*. It is not for every one. 
  
 With the C3g we came to a group consensus that is was a good tube. 
 With the ECC31 we came to a group consensus that it was a good tube. 
 With the 6N7G we came to a group consensus that it was a good tube.
 With the FDD20 we came to a group consensus that it was a good tube (although some had problems with the external heating).
 With the EL3N we did *NOT* come to a group consensus.
  
 Some people absolutely love it, but not everyone does. The thread seems to be on an EL3N craze right now. Every newcomer here wants to buy EL3N, even though not everyone actually liked it. 
  
 Please note: I'm not saying people shouldn't buy the EL3N. They'll probably like it, since a lot of people here does, but it isn't for everyone. 
  
 EL3N has a very special sound, good or bad, you be the judge of that. 
  
  
 This comment isn't to scare off people from buying the EL3N, and I'm not attacking the people who like the tube. It's just not for me, and I think people have missed the few posts about some of us not liking it. Think before you buy.


----------



## WB2016

suuup said:


> I have to say something about the EL3N.
> A lot of people love it, *but there are some of us (albeit the minority) who doesn't like the sound*. It is not for every one.
> 
> With the C3g we came to a group consensus that is was a good tube.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Suup,
  
 interesting and useful summary. The issue is not wanting to read literally hundreds of pages on tubes, but maybe just the last fifty will leave you with this impression. I am definitely one of the newbies who was under the impression that the EL3N is the bee's knees. Regarding the C3G I was under the apparent false impression that they have very high current draw and could be dangerous for some amps. They just seem to be extremely delicate.
  
 The EL3N also seems to aesthetically be intriguing, A nice tube "mirror" in the background to bring out a nice big tube in the foreground has something
  
 What intrigues me the most is that there is a synergy between specific tubes, types and configurations. For the Elise thread a review of the current state of tubes in 2016 would be of use to many that are evaluating purchasing an Elise. Interesting would be some recommendations and what makes to avoid. Difficult to come to a consensus, but if well regarded individuals see specific combinations as excellent this should be reflected in the list.
  
 Else we have a situation similar to the three blind men that describe an elephant completely different because they could only see/read a portion of the complete discussion.
  
 Take Care
 WB


----------



## Suuup

wb2016 said:


> Hi Suup,
> 
> interesting and useful summary. The issue is not wanting to read literally hundreds of pages on tubes, but maybe just the last fifty will leave you with this impression. I am definitely one of the newbies who was under the impression that the EL3N is the bee's knees. Regarding the C3G I was under the apparent false impression that they have very high current draw and could be dangerous for some amps. They just seem to be extremely delicate.
> 
> ...


 
 You're exactly in the target audience for my post. I think I'll compile a list of every tube I've listened to and describe each one.


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again WB...so they're going ahead with the idea of a balanced version? Thanks for keeping us up to date (already!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello Hypnos,
  
 sure for me the thought was to get the best (that I could afford) and avoid the cost of upgrading, but Lukasz said that they are working on a balanced version but even for a request for a custom amp they could not deliver until well into 2017.
 I am curious if the dual adapters, such as EL3N, gives some of the acoustic benefits of balanced, well apart from interference.
  
 I was under the impression that C3G was recommended for sound quality but a bit difficult to implement in a LD safely, due to current draw. I thought that was one of the reasons for the Elise that it could safely handle such tubes ad the C3G. But since you were involved in the development of the Elise and you have both Elise and LD you will know better. Again as with the EL3N it is very difficult to get a balanced picture of the situation when you only see a snapshot of a thread
  
 I would really like to see a summary of the state of tubes for the Elise. What is the consensus and who are the fans of a specific configuration and what are the drawbacks, e.g. external heating. Needs to include the specific model and year of groups of tubes as well. Maybe this already exists but I cannot find it.
  
 This would be especially helpful for those waiting for the Elise to be built or who want to evaluate if the Elise with the current tube situation is a good choice.
  
 Cheers,
 WB


----------



## WB2016

suuup said:


> You're exactly in the target audience for my post. I think I'll compile a list of every tube I've listened to and describe each one.


 
 Yeah that would be really helpfu, maybe with a rough range of prices for the different makes of the models. 
  
 Thanks in advance for the help and work establishing the list. Would likely be of use to other amp users as well, but should really be specifically for the Elise.
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## hpamdr

wb2016 said:


> Yeah that would be really helpfu, maybe with a rough range of prices for the different makes of the models.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help and work establishing the list. Would likely be of use to other amp users as well, but should really be specifically for the Elise.
> 
> ...


 

 If you use the Elise as designed and without strapping penthode in triode mode (C3g / EL3N,...) just give a look to the standard 6AS7G, 6SN7G thread..
  
 To get also some idea, give a look to the original thread for tube rolling on the Elise : http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998
  
 Give a look to the drakvoice DV 337 or La Figaro 339 or the Woo Audio WA3 to get an idea also of what is done with other amps using same tube range.
   
If you like statistics, to get a good picture of the group, the consensus as suup told you, Just count poster advise, followers  and do not take into account number of post (except if you want to ponderate by poster). Also track the usage as a preamplifier, with low i <64 medium <250  high impedance headphone.... 


 When you will receive your Elise you will have a waranty card with the number of happy Elise owner !
  
 Until then my advise is to just wait and read and just do virtual buying (keeping your $$ in a wallet) and once the Elise will be at home do compulsive tube buying.

 I'm personally using my Elise with only one single 6AS7G as output tube and it is already loud enough for what is listen and the cans i use...


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> If you use the Elise as designed and without strapping penthode in triode mode (C3g / EL3N,...) just give a look to the standard 6AS7G, 6SN7G thread..
> 
> To get also some idea, give a look to the original thread for tube rolling on the Elise : http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998
> 
> ...


 
 Why only one 6AS7G? How did you make that work? I'd have to do something similar with my 6C33C I believe.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Why only one 6AS7G? How did you make that work? I'd have to do something similar with my 6C33C I believe.




I took it that he meant "1 per side" ?


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Re the EL3N I am extremely happy using them as drivers. So far I only know of JV and suuup that don't like this tube (Did I miss someone?). My guess is that it may boil down to taste, or perhaps the probability that for some people there is a lack of synergy with their associated equipment.
  
 There is no criticism implied here whatsoever - it just seems that under certain circumstances the EL3N does not shine.
  
 It is interesting to note, as suuup does, that most of the other top tier tubes we tried work for everybody, but here there is a marked divergence of opinion.


----------



## pctazhp

I've been reading this thread today: http://www.head-fi.org/t/798003/gravitational-waves-found. Unfortunately, the thread quickly degenerated. But it got me thinking about my passing interest in pure science.
  
 As an undergraduate I was in the advanced physics program at Princeton (where Einstein spent his final years in his scientific studies) until an instructor caught me asleep in a class and I realized I wasn't very passionate about the mind-numbing details of science. I switched to a history major and went on to become a lawyer where the gift of gab is far more valuable than real intellect.
  
 My only venture into electronics, per se, other than audio, was during my ham radio days - call sign KY7A. But I have very fond memories of watching and discussing Carl Sagan's Cosmos with my son when he was fairly young - he now runs a venture capital fund, so I guess that experience didn't exactly lead to a life of science.
  
 And probably the most challenging and fascinating book I have ever read was Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History Of Time."
  
 For our purposes here, about the only mathematical skill required is the ability to add amps to know when we need to employ external power. I'm just curious if anyone here has any interest in pure science.
  
 PS. My apologies to @hypnos1, @UntilThen and @JazzVinyl who have flexed their technical talents to work with Mrs. Xuling to developed our beloved adapters) and to H1 also for making the Elise possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And also to glenn and anyone else I forgot who actually understands the technical side of this stuff-as I clearly don't !!!


----------



## hpamdr

jazzvinyl said:


> I took it that he meant "1 per side" ?


 

 Nope One for both side with a dedicated bridge adapter mon ami !
  
 If you have a single EL3N by chanel, it is in fact a pentode straped as single triode and it works.
  
 With a dual triode tube, you have two triodes  so if you use one triode by chanel this is the same.
 You will have less power and also reduce impedance matching but if you have a cans on the 120 to 600Ohm with enough sensitivity and a quiet place all is matched.

 Thanks to the EL3N lover for the idea.. I also like EL3N as output tube as it is fun to listen with a very tubey sound but i really prefer GEC 6AS7G/6080. 
  
 A single 6C33C consume 6 to 7.2 A which is more than Elise allow for all tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> Nope One for both side with a dedicated bridge adapter mon ami !
> 
> If you have a single EL3N by chanel, it is in fact a pentode straped as single triode and it works.
> 
> ...




Very nice, hpamdr...

Post a picture, would love to see it. 

I know you have said your against external power (necessary for multiple 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket) but have you listened to one 6BL7 per 6AS7? No external heat or adapters needed, and like your single EL3N, it's not matched for all impedance's but it's quite revealing in the sonic delight department.

Would be interested in your take, since you recognize that the EL3N is quite "tubey" sounding...

Appreciate


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> Nope One for both side with a dedicated bridge adapter mon ami !
> 
> If you have a single EL3N by chanel, it is in fact a pentode straped as single triode and it works.
> 
> ...



This is exactly what I thought. How have you done the pin wiring? Each socket has 2 anodes, but you can only give it one from the 6AS7G? Do you wire the one anode from the 6AS7G to both socket anodes, or only to one? Same question for grid and cathode. 



pctazhp said:


> I've been reading this thread today: http://www.head-fi.org/t/798003/gravitational-waves-found. Unfortunately, the thread quickly degenerated. But it got me thinking about my passing interest in pure science.
> 
> As an undergraduate I was in the advanced physics program at Princeton (where Einstein spent his final years in his scientific studies) until an instructor caught me asleep in a class and I realized I wasn't very passionate about the mind-numbing details of science. I switched to a history major and went on to become a lawyer where the gift of gab is far more valuable than real intellect.
> 
> ...



I am very much interested in the science behind tubes, as well as electrical engineering in general, and actually most science in general. I take my time to understand how stuff works. The more I use something, the more time I spend understanding it.


----------



## mordy

Hi hpamdr,
  
 How about a picture?
  
 In my Little Dot days we ran countless dual triodes singly as drivers with cobbled together adapters - lots of fun.
  




  
 However, in the early design stages the Feliks people decided on two dual triodes as drivers stating that there was a sonic benefit.


----------



## hpamdr

Warning about 6C33C. I gave a look to the datasheet and it seems that aven if it is a dual triode, it can only be exploited as a single as both are connected in parallel internally.
  
  
 About 6BL7 or 7F7 as driver, i will give a try if i can get some tubes for a fair price.... (using single output tube,  allows me to use it without external power supply)


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> About 6BL7 or 7F7 as driver, i will give a try if i can get some tubes for a fair price.... (using single output tube,  allows me to use it without external power supply)





Meant to suggest 6BL7 as Power tubes, not drivers.

I can get them inexpensively in the US, could probably send you a couple. PM me, if interested.


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> Warning about 6C33C. I gave a look to the datasheet and it seems that aven if it is a dual triode, it can only be exploited as a single as both are connected in parallel internally.
> 
> 
> About 6BL7 or 7F7 as driver, i will give a try if i can get some tubes for a fair price.... (using single output tube,  allows me to use it without external power supply)



Exactly. They are single triodes, so running 2 of them would be the same as what you do with your one 6AS7G. I realize it needs external power, and I will give them that. Only thing I need to figure out is how to wire the pins, one anode to one anode, or one anode to two anodes.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Hi hpamdr,
> 
> How about a picture?
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are right  for driver and input stage you have a lot of benefit using dual triode to get more balanced sound !

 For output stage, i have the advantage to compare tube by tube but I need to find tube which are internally balanced to have a good sound (This is the case for the unique GEC 6AS7G i have and also some 5998 )
  
 By the way my adapter is like the litle monter dot with stronger cables and twisted wire for heater.
  
 Also take into account for 6C33C that typical Plate voltage is 120V and it is different that 6AS7G 135V for which Elise is designed....


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Hello Hypnos,
> 
> sure for me the thought was to get the best (that I could afford) and avoid the cost of upgrading, but Lukasz said that they are working on a balanced version but even for a request for a custom amp they could not deliver until well into 2017.
> I am curious if the dual adapters, such as EL3N, gives some of the acoustic benefits of balanced, well apart from interference.
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB...Suuup is indeed right in saying there isn't (yet!) the same agreement as to results using the EL3N. The reason(s) for this is nigh on impossible to fathom, alas - I personally cannot understand why those of us who love this tube just do not recognise the negative comments made, even accounting for different _preferences_. Especially as we have all had much experience with sound assessment, and been able to compare within a short space of time to all our other 'star' tubes, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







..._*totally mind boggling!!*_





...Presumably the reason lies more in the area of less flexibility in partnering with other equipment in the system - and then, perhaps not lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 And so yes, the only advice can be _*try it and see!*_...with as open a mind as possible...(which is true in _any_ area of hi-fi, of course!!).
  
 Re. the C3g in LD, that's the first I personally have heard about "current draw" issues - in the entire time from introduction up until deserting over to Elise, lol!...strange...
  
 I hear you clearly on the helpfulness of comprehensive listing/summaries of info on all aspects of tube data; results; equipment matching etc., but this is one mammoth task that I'm afraid I personally no longer have the luxury of _time_ to be able to carry out to any really useful degree, alas. I can only hope that perhaps others may be able to take on this task...
  
 One thing I must say on this, however, is that a good few of us have in fact spent _*many*_ _months_ researching; testing; analysing and reporting on such issues...and sorry if I sound a bit 'hard', but I don't think it unfair to ask those really interested to spend just a few _hours_ to sift through these findings, and in the process gain a much fuller picture than any summary could paint, to be honest - not to mention a good deal of interesting and informative related material...(plus a better idea of who is saying what, and why!).
  
 It saddens me, for example, when I occasionally look back at my old LD Rolling Guide stomping ground and see recent posts on subjects that have been covered in great detail _many_ times, and which if the effort had been made to do the initial 'leg work' could save a good deal of doubt/question/confusion...and hard-earned _money!!_








.
  
 (But then, I'm very much 'old school' as regards these matters I'm afraid, lol!...but must agree that summaries are indeed _very_ useful - and _easier!_...GOLD STARS to those who can manage these tasks, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## Audict123

> And probably the most challenging and fascinating book I have ever read was Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History Of Time."
> For our purposes here, about the only mathematical skill required is the ability to add amps to know when we need to employ external power. I'm just curious if anyone here has any interest in pure science.


 
 Actually I do. Black holes, gravitational waves, gibbs boson particles, it all fascinates me. Not that I understand!: I have a PhD in chemistry but that doesn't cut the mustard. I most wanted to study astrophysics when I was 18, but after a 'try out college' I realised that my math skills would be overstretched. There was a running joke attached to this study: Holland exports two things: cheese and astrophysicists (no jobs for it in our own country). Now I realise that wasn't true. They forgot to include the Philips EL3N tube, which clearly made it's way all over the world and still does


----------



## aqsw

Can I use one el3n in a dual adapter, or do both sockets have to be used. Just wondering because I could save $ from not having to buy two more singles from mrsx.


----------



## wild bill

have not had a chance to read all 534 pages of this thread
  
 some questions:
  
 1. which of the Feliks amps are 100% class A ?  which are SET?
  
 2. I own over 75,000 tubes, spread between 3 warehouses, so can these amps be ordered without tubes? - I don't need any more.


----------



## hpamdr

wild bill said:


> have not had a chance to read all 534 pages of this thread
> 
> some questions:
> 
> ...


 
  
 A good gess is that it works in pure class A as the spec and the used voltages are inside the class A typical values for 6AS7G, 6SN7....
  
 The only one that can respond about a discount if you order without any tube are FA folks.
 phone: +48 502 184 033
 email: info@feliksaudio.pl
 www.feliksaudio.pl
  
 If you want to exploit more tubes type/combination, you probably need a modded Elise and you can ask if they will do it for you... After, you will just have to pay and wait...


----------



## wild bill

hpamdr said:


> A good gess is that it works in pure class A as the spec and the used voltages are inside the class A typical values for 6AS7G, 6SN7....
> 
> The only one that can respond about a discount if you order without any tube are FA folks.
> phone: +48 502 184 033
> ...


 
 they don't mention class A for this amp on their website, but for the next higher model, they do!


----------



## Suuup

aqsw said:


> Can I use one el3n in a dual adapter, or do both sockets have to be used. Just wondering because I could save $ from not having to buy two more singles from mrsx.



EL3N is a pentode. To make it work in Elise, we run it as a single triode. Our 6AS7G (and most of our other tubes) are double triodes, meaning there is two triodes inside the tube. As such you can use one triode in the 6AS7G for one socket / channel, and the other triode for the other socket / channel. 

This is not possible with EL3N, as it's a triode strapped pentode, so only a single triode. 

Besides that, EL3N doesn't have much power. 2 is already on the low side, running one would not be able to drive many headphones. 


Conclusion: No, you can't use only one.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Can I use one el3n in a dual adapter, or do both sockets have to be used. Just wondering because I could save $ from not having to buy two more singles from mrsx.


 
  
 Hi aqsw.
  
 Suuup has given a good description of how pentodes work when 'strapped' to become a _single_ triode, in effect, as opposed to the _double_ triodes of the 6SN7 and 6AS7G for example.
  
 The single adapter is configured "in series", solely for Elise drivers...the dual adapter will be in conventional "parallel", one EL3N feeding the _left_ power's triode, the other the _right_ triode - which means the adapter can be used by any other amp using the same kind of power tube. Hope this helps, lol..


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi aqsw.
> 
> Suuup has given a good description of how pentodes work when 'strapped' to become a _single_ triode, in effect, as opposed to the _double_ triodes of the 6SN7 and 6AS7G for example.
> 
> The single adapter is configured "in series", solely for Elise drivers...the dual adapter will be in conventional "parallel", one EL3N feeding the _left_ power's triode, the other the _right_ triode - which means the adapter can be used by any other amp using the same kind of power tube. Hope this helps, lol..



Are you sure about this one? The way I understand it is, the 2 triodes in a single tube is wired in series. That goes for both power and driver. Do you not think this is the case?


EDIT: Never mind, I completely misunderstood what you wrote.


----------



## wild bill

Amp manufacturers figured this out a LONG time ago, my Marantz model 9's are 55 years old and have a switch for TRIODE/PENTODE mode.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Are you sure about this one? The way I understand it is, the 2 triodes in a single tube is wired in series. That goes for both power and driver. Do you not think this is the case?
> 
> 
> EDIT: Never mind, I completely misunderstood what you wrote.


 
  
 No fear, S....even though Glenn (re. the 'series' driver) and MrsX have confirmed the two different configurations, Oskari and I are still scratching our heads (well, I know _I_ am still, lol!) at the sight of the driver's 2 anodes, cathodes and grids respectively (apparently) connected - as per Lukasz's released photo - which should indicate 'parallel'?  I'm obviously not well enough up in such matters to fathom this out, alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!
  
 ps. As I mentioned recently, perhaps it's some kind of fancy "combined" series/parallel configuration, lol?!!


----------



## hypnos1

wild bill said:


> Amp manufacturers figured this out a LONG time ago, my Marantz model 9's are 55 years old and have a switch for TRIODE/PENTODE mode.


 
  
 That sure is handy, wild bill...modern tube amp manufacturers would appear to have some catching up to do - _still_, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...just think of what might now be standard on our glass-clad beauties, were it not for the (sudden/dramatic) rise of the tansistor!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...ah well, such is 'progress'...(but is understandable, alas...).


----------



## wild bill

I nearly always have them is TRIODE mode, unless I am playing AC/DC or something like that and playing it loud.


----------



## Suuup

wild bill said:


> Amp manufacturers figured this out a LONG time ago, my Marantz model 9's are 55 years old and have a switch for TRIODE/PENTODE mode.


 
 I'm not sure which comment you're referring to?


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> If you use the Elise as designed and without strapping penthode in triode mode (C3g / EL3N,...) just give a look to the standard 6AS7G, 6SN7G thread..
> 
> To get also some idea, give a look to the original thread for tube rolling on the Elise : http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998
> 
> ...


 

 Hi HPAMDR,
  
 is that headphone amp Dr.? Yes I will do a lot of reading, but would like to have a variety of tubes ready/burnt in for the High End in Munich in 2016 when I want to audition some DACs and HP. Good to know some vendors who will be there on vendor day.
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> O2Dac is a good start and beter than nothing but Rega Dac-R is really a great sounding dac a bit warm and transparent.
> WAV is nice format even if it use many space, if you like this format minimserver is an upnp  musical server that perform well.
> WAV up to 96Khz is the format that use almost no resource from you computer and minimise decoding artefact  it just push PCM to your DAC if you do not add filters.... // DSF or DSD using proper DAC is the same but using a lot of data that needs a lot of IO.....
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks,
  
 yeah I am not a big fan of the 02DAC showed me a bit that pure measurement is not all it takes to make engaging music. With the delay I might have to return the Rega R Dac before I get the Elise, which I ordered today...
  
 Any other DACs that would be of interest to try out that have synergy. I have a friend of mine who is a vendor in the UK and we will meet for the Munich Highend.
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## pctazhp

wb2016 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> yeah I am not a big fan of the 02DAC showed me a bit that pure measurement is not all it takes to make engaging music. With the delay I might have to return the Rega R Dac before I get the Elise, which I ordered today...
> 
> ...


 
 WB:  I haven't had a lot of experience with the current crop of DACs, but I am very happy with my Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC. It was designed by Mike Moffat, who also designed the venerable Theta 5 DAC. I hope you will have the opportunity to give it a try.


----------



## aqsw

wild bill said:


> they don't mention class A for this amp on their website, but for the next higher model, they do!


 
 I took for granted it was class A by the heat it generates. I could be wrong.


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> yeah I am not a big fan of the 02DAC showed me a bit that pure measurement is not all it takes to make engaging music. With the delay I might have to return the Rega R Dac before I get the Elise, *which I ordered today...*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well done on biting the bullet, WB...you won't be disappointed, I'm sure... (haven't heard any bad words about her _yet_, lol!)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Best of luck with your DAC hunt - Elise deserves really good partners...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys, for checking just how 'full' your sound is - not to mention being another fabulous track from a fabulous album by Loreena McKennitt ('The Book of Secrets'), give this a try...better still, get the CD - or at least full CD quality download.
  
 My EL3N/GEC CV2523 combo is giving me the most magical sound I think I've ever heard...as I listen to _all_ the tracks on this album - _trying_ to write this, but having to keep stopping in my own tracks, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...WOWeee!!...@UntilThen especially, you've just _got_ to listen to this (_and_ all the other tracks!) with your 6x EL3N.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCjxZHGHL4Y
  
 HAPPY LISTENING! guys....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys, for checking just how 'full' your sound is - not to mention being another fabulous track from a fabulous album by Loreena McKennitt ('The Book of Secrets'), give this a try...better still, get the CD - or at least full CD quality download.
> 
> My EL3N/GEC CV2523 combo is giving me the most magical sound I think I've ever heard...as I listen to _all_ the tracks on this album - _trying_ to write this, but having to keep stopping in my own tracks, lol!
> 
> ...


 
 Love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This sounds really good on six EL3N. I have to get the HD downloads or buy the CD.
  
 I've been primarily using 2xEL3N and 4x6SN7 ; 2xEL3N and 2x6BL7 / 2x6SN7 ; 2xEL3N and Chatham 6AS7G but always return to 6xEL3N which is a worry because EL3N is slowly vanishing from eBay.
  
@pctazhp have you got your dual EL3N adapters yet? @aqsw if you have already bought the dual adapters, you should try 6xEL3N. Not sure how the Ether's will sound with it though but on T1 and HE560, it's lovely.
  
 Congrats to all who have committed to Elise recently. This has to be the best value tube amp at the moment.
  
 Happy listening indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

A lot of new interest on Elise, including Wild Bill with 75,000 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Welcome.


----------



## UntilThen

10 dual EL3N adapters sold !!! Who's been buying therm?


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys, for checking just how 'full' your sound is - not to mention being another fabulous track from a fabulous album by Loreena McKennitt ('The Book of Secrets'), give this a try...better still, get the CD - or at least full CD quality download.


 

 Yes, that's a beautiful album and a stunning recording... Check out The Mask and Mirror too, I like that one even more. Wish I had my Elise already to play Loreena but still one month to go. Got plenty of tubes already  . They are all dead silent but that's just because the amp is lacking


----------



## aqsw

Loreena comes from a town about 60 miles from me. Ironically, my son in law is the high school music teacher there now.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Yes, that's a beautiful album and a stunning recording... Check out The Mask and Mirror too, I like that one even more. Wish I had my Elise already to play Loreena but still one month to go. Got plenty of tubes already  . They are all dead silent but that's just because the amp is lacking


 
  
 Hi a123...just you wait 'til you hear her through Elise - like me, it will probably stop you right in your tracks, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  
 And yes, what an amazing recording...one of those (few!) that have you wondering "why bother with hi-res?"...incredible...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and she has even _better_ albums? Will most definitely be looking _those_ up...thanks!!
  
 Glad you like her too, @UntilThen...check out a123's recommendations also, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 With such a close proximity @aqsw, have you followed her work at all? Or is she not your "cup of tea" lol?...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> 10 dual EL3N adapters sold !!! Who's been buying therm?


 
  
 Wonder if it's another camp, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...after all, someone else pipped us to the post for MrsX's double, no?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ... Oskari and I are still scratching our heads (well, I know _I_ am still, lol!) at the sight of the driver's 2 anodes, cathodes and grids respectively (apparently) connected - as per Lukasz's released photo - which should indicate 'parallel'? ...




What am I to believe, if not my eyes?


----------



## Oskari

aqsw said:


> I took for granted it was class A by the heat it generates. I could be wrong.




I don't think you're wrong.

What else, other than class A, would make any sense for an amp such as Elise? :confused_face(1):


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> What am I to believe, if not my eyes?


 
  
 Indeed O...how about X-Ray vision to see just what dear Henryk has hidden from view, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hi a123...just you wait 'til you hear her through Elise - like me, it will probably stop you right in your tracks, lol!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can´t wait! I just played some of her music through the Figaro 332S and HD650. I can still live with that for a while  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 If you like the acoustic atmosphere of Loreena's music you may also have a look at the Hadouk Trio or Renaud Garcia Fons. The latter is an incredible genius on standing bass. Bet you guys love bass too... Lots of him on Youtube.
 Try eg his Oriental Bass album, the first (title) track and Homage a Ostad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7At34EWUnAM&list=PLzfLxg_0zbi4A8yFctXhg-52FI3334xjr


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Indeed O...how about X-Ray vision to see just what dear Henryk has hidden from view, lol?!! :wink_face: ...




That would be nice.. and useful!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @arie123, "Mask and Mirror", and "Ancient Muse" ordered....the start of a large collection, I suspect. Thanks again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Can´t wait! I just played some of her music through the Figaro 332S and HD650. I can still live with that for a while
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will do...ta very much...


----------



## Oskari

I'm still quite stuck with Clannad.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOrEIKNOXQ[/VIDEO]


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @arie123, "Mask and Mirror", and "Ancient Muse" ordered....the start of a large collection, I suspect. Thanks again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to give something back to this lively community and not just absorbing ...  The funny thing is, one of the first things I read about the Elise was Untilthen´s review at http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14724 . The review of the Elise triggered me, even more so because he mentioned so much music that I really love. And the fact that that went all the way from Melody Gardot, Knopfler and Krall to Metallica. Hey, I like all those! It made me even more interested in the amp because we clearly share musical taste too. I must confess I´m a sucker for audio gear but it would be nothing without music.
 CHEERS!


----------



## Audict123

BTW, did any of you guys try out 6F8G tubes in the Elise? Or do you feel the alternatives that came up here (FDD20, 6N7G etc) outperform this type on the whole?


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> That would be nice.. and useful!


 
  
 As our long-departed, and much-loved comedian Dick Emery would say : "Ooohh, you _are_ awful...but I _like_ you"!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


oskari said:


> I'm still quite stuck with Clannad.


 
  
 Been reading my past posts O? How else did you know they are among my top most-loved groups?...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...sensational...


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi a123...just you wait 'til you hear her through Elise - like me, it will probably stop you right in your tracks, lol! :wink_face:  .
> 
> And yes, what an amazing recording...one of those (few!) that have you wondering "why bother with hi-res?"...incredible...:bigsmile_face: ...and she has even _better_ albums? Will most definitely be looking _those_ up...thanks!!
> 
> ...




I have followed her. Actually went to her last show here about two years ago.


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi a123...just you wait 'til you hear her through Elise - like me, it will probably stop you right in your tracks, lol! :wink_face:  .
> 
> And yes, what an amazing recording...one of those (few!) that have you wondering "why bother with hi-res?"...incredible...:bigsmile_face: ...and she has even _better_ albums? Will most definitely be looking _those_ up...thanks!!
> 
> ...




I have followed her. Actually went to her last show here about two years ago.


----------



## aqsw

audict123 said:


> BTW, did any of you guys try out 6F8G tubes in the Elise? Or do you feel the alternatives that came up here (FDD20, 6N7G etc) outperform this type on the whole?



I had a pair. Bought the adapters. Plugged them in and and one valves blew up immediately. Thats the last I tried them. Not going to buy another one.:mad:


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Been reading my past posts O? How else did you know they are among my top most-loved groups?...:bigsmile_face: ...sensational...




I've noticed. I've been a fan for the past 20 years or so. My CD collection will attest to that.


----------



## Suuup

audict123 said:


> BTW, did any of you guys try out 6F8G tubes in the Elise? Or do you feel the alternatives that came up here (FDD20, 6N7G etc) outperform this type on the whole?


 
 I have the 6C8G. Terrible, don't get it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp have you got your dual EL3N adapters yet? @aqsw if you have already bought the dual adapters, you should try 6xEL3N. Not sure how the Ether's will sound with it though but on T1 and HE560, it's lovely.


 
 Not yet. Just ordered them a few days ago. Mainly listening to 4XEL3Ns and enjoying it a lot. Sometimes I put the 6520s to work in the power position and that's great too. Candidly, I'm a little burned out on tube rolling right now. But still enjoy trying to keep up with everyone. Great to see our ranks are growing )))


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Wonder if it's another camp, lol?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup it wasn't us but EL3N inspired it and I'm happy with the outcome now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  So is Mrs X.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if it's another camp, lol?!!
> ...


 
 I bought one of the adapters for my amp....Mrs. X even replaced an adapter for me...she gave me great service.
  
 If she ever does an adapter for 3 6BL7....I will probably try it.
  
 I like the EL3N sound in my amp.....used only as driver in my amp.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> Glad to give something back to this lively community and not just absorbing ...  The funny thing is, one of the first things I read about the Elise was Untilthen´s review at http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/14724 . The review of the Elise triggered me, even more so because he mentioned so much music that I really love. And the fact that that went all the way from Melody Gardot, Knopfler and Krall to Metallica. Hey, I like all those! It made me even more interested in the amp because we clearly share musical taste too. I must confess I´m a sucker for audio gear but it would be nothing without music.
> CHEERS!


 

 Arie, I finished half a bottle of XO meant for H1 writing that.
  
 Same taste in music? Did we go to the same preschool? Are you a baby boomer? Were you a kid when Woodstock appeared on the scene?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Not yet. Just ordered them a few days ago. Mainly listening to 4XEL3Ns and enjoying it a lot. Sometimes I put the 6520s to work in the power position and that's great too. Candidly, I'm a little burned out on tube rolling right now. But still enjoy trying to keep up with everyone. Great to see our ranks are growing )))


 

 Hey are you psychic? First tubes I put on this morning are EL3N and 6520. It's playing now.
  
 P, don't think of tube rolling as work. Just enjoy it as you go along. That's what I do now. If I don't want to change tubes, I'll just let it stay. However I'm enjoying all these music recommended by these folks in the last 2 pages. Let me spin some as I eat my breakfast.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I bought one of the adapters for my amp....Mrs. X even replaced an adapter for me...she gave me great service.
> 
> If she ever does an adapter for 3 6BL7....I will probably try it.
> 
> I like the EL3N sound in my amp.....used only as driver in my amp.


 
 I'm glad the replacement adapter works for you WW. Mrs X is indeed a seller that looks after her customers. She's willing to replace your adapter which cost $37 with no fuss. It's great to have such an adapter maker and seller.
  
 ... glad you're liking the EL3N as drivers in your amp too but we both believe in rotation. We swap tubes all the time. This is a big plus in having a tube amp. A different tone for each new day.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hey are you psychic? First tubes I put on this morning are EL3N and 6520. It's playing now.
> 
> P, don't think of tube rolling as work. Just enjoy it as you go along. That's what I do now. If I don't want to change tubes, I'll just let it stay. However I'm enjoying all these music recommended by these folks in the last 2 pages. Let me spin some as I eat my breakfast.


 
 Bon appetite


----------



## UntilThen

I love Eva Cassidy's rendition of Art Garfunkel's classic. So good...I'm moved.


----------



## connieflyer

Eva Cassidy was a wonderful singer, so sad her life got cut so short, she would have risen a long ways I am sure.


----------



## DecentLevi

True story: today I just discovered a family member I'd never known about, from Facebook. Her middle name is Elise. And somehow this photo from her wedding seems to make her parallel the Elise... 'aleist from what I've read:
  

  
 Now how about I see what kind of tubes this long-lost family member can finance for me...


----------



## connieflyer

Elise on the way in, see if she wants to adopt a son (er ahhh) older son


----------



## UntilThen

Tell her she looks beautiful and radiant and she'll send you a pair of ECC32.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Eva Cassidy was a wonderful singer, so sad her life got cut so short, she would have risen a long ways I am sure.


 
 Eva Cassidy's story. Why am I fascinated? She sing blues and jazz and a whole lot more. A rare talent indeed and not known until she left planet earth. I've been listening to her Nightbird album all day.


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> Arie, I finished half a bottle of XO meant for H1 writing that.
> 
> Same taste in music? Did we go to the same preschool? Are you a baby boomer? Were you a kid when Woodstock appeared on the scene?


 
 Baby boomer in Wikipedia: "_Baby boomers_ are people born during the demographic post–World War II _baby boom_ approximately between the years 1946 and 1964". I'm from 1964, so yes, but only just...  In other definitions I don't fit in. I guess many of the Elise posters have grey hair (if any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## UntilThen

1964... ok this was famous then. Written by McCartney who didn't think the song was good enough for the Beatles. They gave it away to Peter and Gordon and it reached number 1 in UK.


----------



## UntilThen

So what if we didn't have these fancy tubes. Will Elise sound good with these 'plain vanilla' 6sn7 and 6as7? You bet. This is really good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well they aren't really plain but nothing fanciful. Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top and Chatham 6520. Man I love this sound !!! Try it and listen to this Mark Knopfler excellent soundboard recording off the internet.


----------



## connieflyer

Pre baby boomer 1944, but still love Eva's music and style. Started out in the Navy in Electronics, all tubes then, no wonder this tube frenzy has stuck me!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Pre baby boomer 1944, but still love Eva's music and style. Started out in the Navy in Electronics, all tubes then, no wonder this tube frenzy has stuck me!


 
 I'm 1945. We were just a little to quick (or our parents were) to make it into the baby boomer generation. Here the just call us "Old Geezers"


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> So what if we didn't have these fancy tubes. Will Elise sound good with these 'plain vanilla' 6sn7 and 6as7? You bet. This is really good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 UT:  I worry about you a lot. Actually I worry about your poor Elise. Ever considered getting socket savers for your beautiful mistress???


----------



## mordy

Hey Arie123,
  
 No, no grey hair -WHITE! Early edition boomer from 1946.....


----------



## aqsw

A bunch of old farts. I feel young at 1953.


----------



## UntilThen

I have no idea baby boomers span such a long period. 1946 to 1964 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You're all bouncing babies. I'm 1956. So this is my song.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  I worry about you a lot. Actually I worry about your poor Elise. Ever considered getting socket savers for your beautiful mistress???


 

 Believe me Elise sockets are just right now. When I first had the tube amp, the sockets were so tight I'd lift Elise up when removing the tubes. Yes literally lift the tube amp up !!!
  
 "These sockets are made for rolling" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but don't follow in my shoes and sue me if your sockets are worn out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Socket savers don't do anything for me other than cosmetics because when I remove my tubes, I'd remove the socket savers together.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Believe me Elise sockets are just right now. When I first had the tube amp, the sockets were so tight I'd lift Elise up when removing the tubes. Yes literally lift the tube amp up !!!
> 
> "These sockets are made for rolling" :bigsmile_face:  but don't follow in my shoes and sue me if your sockets are worn out. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Socket savers don't do anything for me other than cosmetics because when I remove my tubes, I'd remove the socket savers together. :bigsmile_face:




Careful UT. You seem to have magic sockets, but Elise sockets weren't chosen to be of high durability, but rather to be easy to wire for the Feliks guys. They can be worn down. Mine are actually quite loose. It's not a problem for me yet, but I predict it might become on the future.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Elise on the way in, see if she wants to adopt a son (er ahhh) older son


 
  
 Hey connieflyer....does this mean you're joining the Elise club lol? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> Believe me Elise sockets are just right now. When I first had the tube amp, the sockets were so tight I'd lift Elise up when removing the tubes. Yes literally lift the tube amp up !!!
> 
> "These sockets are made for rolling"
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT....so you continue to defy the Gods re your sockets, lol?...LUCKY YOU!
  
 I feel I must, however, repeat my previous warnings on this - I myself (and others) have found extensive rolling _can_ indeed cause problems...just be aware of this please, folks...
  
 Hope you stay lucky, mon ami...(or should that be _ex_-ami, if you've already snaffled half my XO brandy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Careful UT. You seem to have magic sockets, but Elise sockets weren't chosen to be of high durability, but rather to be easy to wire for the Feliks guys. They can be worn down. Mine are actually quite loose. It's not a problem for me yet, but I predict it might become on the future.


 
  
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hey connieflyer....does this mean you're joining the Elise club lol?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've been very fortunate I think. There's a lot that is 'just right' with my Elise. There's not a single tube in my collection that hums to this day and the sockets are still tight after 3 months of frantic tube rolling. 
  
 I've slack off tube rolling now believe me. I used to change tubes at least 8 times a day but now once or twice at most. I think the sockets will easily last till Elise Mk2 appears next year. 
  
 I think this switch for pentode and triode idea is good, as well as multi voltage. Lukasz are you listening? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps... however please do take note of Suuup and H1's warning regarding the sockets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 pss... connie is joining the club.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> I've been very fortunate I think. There's a lot that is 'just right' with my Elise. There's not a single tube in my collection that hums to this day and the sockets are still tight after 3 months of frantic tube rolling.
> 
> I've slack off tube rolling now believe me. I used to change tubes at least 8 times a day but now once or twice at most. I think the sockets will easily last till Elise Mk2 appears next year.
> 
> ...



There might be a difference in view here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my sockets right now. They're perfectly tight. However, they've loosened up considerably compared to when I first got Elise. Still plenty tight though. 

In the long run, however, I believe they might become worn out. That's because Elise is something I'll still be using in 10 years, probably 20 as well. If you plan to replace Elise in a couple of years, there most likely won't be a problem.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Believe me Elise sockets are just right now. When I first had the tube amp, the sockets were so tight I'd lift Elise up when removing the tubes. Yes literally lift the tube amp up !!!
> 
> "These sockets are made for rolling"
> 
> ...


 
 So I guess what you are saying is: "The Elise takes a licking and keeps on ticking"


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> There might be a difference in view here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my sockets right now. They're perfectly tight. However, they've loosened up considerably compared to when I first got Elise. Still plenty tight though.
> 
> In the long run, however, I believe they might become worn out. That's because Elise is something I'll still be using in 10 years, probably 20 as well. If you plan to replace Elise in a couple of years, there most likely won't be a problem.


 

 Yes they are not as tight as day 1 but what can you do when you're a compulsive tube roller. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Worst case scenario is to have the sockets replaced by Feliks Audio or a local technician.
  
 Ps.. my Darkvoice 336se socket are not as tight too. 
  
 Pss.. I reckon the pin connections are definitely better than the paddle feet and spring clips used in the FDD20 and EL3N.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @arie123, that Renaud sure is something else on that bass...amazing!
  
 Have now added 'Elemental', 'Parallel Dreams' and 'The Visit' to my other 2 ordered Loreena McKennitt albums...am I on the right track, lol? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...think so!...
  
 And boy, @aqsw, do I envy you seeing her in live performance - hope she was up to her recordings, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At this point I would just like to add that this particular foray away from amps per se is not simply light relief and genial conversation...I personally believe that this type of music that combines a range of acoustic instruments - some out of the 'ordinary' - along with vocals, provides an extremely good vehicle for assessing tonal range; timbre; attack/sustain/decay and all-important pace, rhythm and timing...not to mention the 'emotional' element (and boy, does Loreena have _bags_ of that!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Couple these with some electronics also - as in Irish 'folk' group Clannad, and most of the important areas for sound assessment are covered already IMHO...(just add in a bit of Mark Knopfler; tenor Jonas Kaufman; baritone/basses Dmitri Hvorostovsky & Bryn Terfel; soprano Angela Gheorghiu; Daniel Barenboim on a well-recorded piano; Maxim Vengerov on solo violin; Yo Yo Ma on solo cello, and......!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 BFN


----------



## connieflyer

Turned in my order last night,I was told about 6 to 7 weeks. Can,t wait


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Turned in my order last night,I was told about 6 to 7 weeks. Can,t wait


 
  
 WELL DONE connie....thought you wouldn't be able to resist, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....WELCOME...


----------



## UntilThen

What happened to @B-60 and @supersonic395 they should have gotten their Elise by now.
  
 Come on B, I need to know how the HEX performs on Elise and SS, I need to know how your T1 G2 rolls on Led Zep with Elise.
  
 Oh forgot @nojdrof


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> Turned in my order last night,I was told about 6 to 7 weeks. Can,t wait




Congrats Connie.
Now for the long wait.
It will be worth it!


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Turned in my order last night,I was told about 6 to 7 weeks. Can,t wait


 

 Congrats,
 that makes two Units (with the one I ordered on Thursday), which will hopefully Speed up production or at least the start of production
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## WB2016

Hi there,
  
 man this post is growing fast. Hard to keep up if you don't read it every day, even harder to catch up with so many new Posts.
  
 I heard some info on the EL3N from an aquaintance that also likes them and uses them, along with being a huge fan of the 300Bs. Ouch at over 800-1400€ a pair he is saving a lot of Money on the EL3Ns He told me that sometimes the ELN3s are hit and miss though and seem to be somewhat sensitive to interference. He has them caged behind metal covering. He  just tests some and discard/sell the ones he doesn't like He lives in a different Audio Budget world than what I am looking at.  
  
 Well who knows but him talking about them made me curious to try them. Just a stupid question first, for the EL3Ns quads the you use the double Adapters from Mrs. X as powers and then you use a single Adapter for the EL3Ns as Drivers? Or do you Need something else?
  
 Has anyone tried the ELN3 quads and C3G Drivers? I enjoy and Play the violin and can imagine the C3G to be a really good fit. Or is does this Combo not work. The way it is described here would be quite good for Vivaldi's Four Seasons by Akiko Meyer in high res.
  
 I have allocated about 380€ for tubes and Adapters so I am looking at my Options but could probably pull of 6xELN3s and 2xC3gs, if that is a good Combo.
  
 Thanks for all the help.
  
 Take care,
 WB
  
 PS. How can you turn off the autocorrect. It is correcting my English and applying German Autocorrect....
 Word next time I guess


----------



## WB2016

Sorry one more question on the c3gs and EL3Ns, what about matching the pairs. I see so many Posts on matching Driver tubes, but here matching is hardly ever mentioned compared to the Schiit Mjolnir. Does this have to do with the Elise not bein balanced?
  
 Cheers,
 WB


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> What happened to @B-60 and @supersonic395 they should have gotten their Elise by now.
> 
> Come on B, I need to know how the HEX performs on Elise and SS, I need to know how your T1 G2 rolls on Led Zep with Elise.
> 
> Oh forgot @nojdrof


 
 Hi UT,
 Still waiting, winter is almost over here in London Ont. and no amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Lukasz said that should be ready at the end of Feb....will see.
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi UT,
> Still waiting, winter is almost over here in London Ont. and no amp
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's a long wait unfortunately but I think your wait is almost at an end. You'll get it in time for Spring.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> That's a long wait unfortunately but I think your wait is almost at an end. You'll get it in time for Spring.


 
 How are thing with you???
 I did miss out on lots of posts here.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> What happened to @B-60
> and @supersonic395
> they should have gotten their Elise by now.
> 
> ...




I'll be getting the Elise but due to sudden change of circumstances I had to delay my order BUT I'll be getting it soon


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> How are thing with you???
> I did miss out on lots of posts here.


 
 Things are well here. Lots happening. I was looking at the Canjam in Spore. Originally wanted to go but guess it's not possible this time.
  


supersonic395 said:


> I'll be getting the Elise but due to sudden change of circumstances I had to delay my order BUT I'll be getting it soon


 
 Ok...the unforeseen happens. All in good time SS.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Things are well here. Lots happening. I was looking at the Canjam in Spore. Originally wanted to go but guess it's not possible this time.
> 
> Ok...the unforeseen happens. All in good time SS.


 
 This is funny, I wonted to go on small vacation and thought about this as well , but 20hrs on the plane is not my thing plus the price of the room ,well nice room was over $400 us a night, well you do the math.
 Maybe next time.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> This is funny, I wonted to go on small vacation and thought about this as well , but 20hrs on the plane is not my thing plus the price of the room ,well nice room was over $400 us a night, well you do the math.
> Maybe next time.


 

 I hate long flight. Even 8 hours is too much for me.   If I had gone I'd have stayed with one of my brothers.


----------



## UntilThen

50 EL3N to 6SN7 adapters sold. Are you kidding me?


----------



## tjw321

untilthen said:


> 50 EL3N to 6SN7 adapters sold. Are you kidding me?


 
 I think a lot of people that buy one pair, end up buying a second (Me!). So that's 12 1/2 Elises


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Congrats,
> that makes two Units (with the one I ordered on Thursday), which will hopefully Speed up production or at least the start of production
> 
> Take Care,
> WB


 
  
 Hi WB....speed up production?...SORRY!!...more like slow things down a bit perhaps, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Sounds like there are more orders than we're actually aware of, and as Elise is basically built to order (by experienced personnel _only!_) - no factory production line here, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 - I can't see things being any other way I'm afraid...(but I'd like to think myself being wrong on this!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


wb2016 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> man this post is growing fast. Hard to keep up if you don't read it every day, even harder to catch up with so many new Posts.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo WB, it pays to set aside some extra quality time to catch up on (and stay with!) events here...we have an enthusiastic bunch, to be sure!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (goodness knows how we'd _ever_ cope if Elise had been churned out by the dozen, LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Nice to see you've heard good things from another source re the EL3N...but a shame about his variable quality aspect - is that regarding new or _used_ tubes?...and did he give them a fairly long burn-in before deciding their fate at all?
  
 The double EL3N adapters are indeed for use as powers, the singles for drivers (they're wired differently)...nothing else needed.
  
 Am not sure how the C3gs would be when driving 4x EL3N powers - can't remember if @UntilThen tried this combo yet....I'm sure he'll let us know if yes, and how it went...
  


wb2016 said:


> Sorry one more question on the c3gs and EL3Ns, what about matching the pairs. I see so many Posts on matching Driver tubes, but here matching is hardly ever mentioned compared to the Schiit Mjolnir. Does this have to do with the Elise not bein balanced?
> 
> Cheers,
> WB


 
  
 I believe the general concensus here is that, as with the LittleDots, exact matching is not necessary, so long as the tubes are not wildly different in strength. And not usually worth paying the sometimes exorbitant premium for the privilege, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Having said that, if one's ears are _*absolutely identical*_ in what they can hear, and one is _*hypersensitive*_ to any kind of imbalance, then exact matching _might_ just prove worthwhile...but I doubt there are very many who do actually fall into this category!!
  


tjw321 said:


> I think a lot of people that buy one pair, end up buying a second (Me!). So that's 12 1/2 Elises


 
  
 I like your logic, tjw...that's not _so_ many individuals after all, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but then..???
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.  And hey, @UntilThen...we've certainly given MrsX something to smile about, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(pps. any XO left _at all_?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen Thanks for the Eva Cassidy posts. I didn't know about her. Been listening to her a lot. She had a lovely voice and great song selections. Seems custom made for Elise-T1. 
  
 And loved seeing the Elvis video. He's my idol - THE KING 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Am finally back to my current favorite combination EL3Ns/Chatham 6AS7Gs. Will probably stay there until the dual adapters arrive.
  
 Hope you and everyone else here have a nice weekend. The weather here in Scottsdale is beyond spectacular


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi WB....speed up production?...SORRY!!...more like slow things down a bit perhaps, alas!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi H1,
  
 yeah I know waiting will be hard, luckily??? I have set aside a fixed Budget for tubes and Adapters so I don't go crazy while I wait. Well if Felix gets enough orderrs there is the possibility of doing it in paralel, hence the wait for when they'll start might be reduced but who am kidding it will be another 6 weeks...
  
 Unfortunately my aquaintance is talking about new tubes, he only buys NOS, highest Quality. Also very finicky regarding interference and line conditioning, but he also has some real golden ears.... Professional High High End Audio Video installer designer huge fan of the EAR Yoshinos by the way. He mentioned that some EL3Ns just don't Sound very good, not terrible but noticeably not as good, while others are exceptional. Well for a tube first made in 1939 in Holland, that is the beginning of WW2 and if I read correctly it was replaced in 1947??? I would imagine that there were some not so great Batches Dutch hunger winter Comes to mind, but maybe they were made someplace else.
  
 Mrs. X will get another order soon from me as well. 25 1/2 Elises interesting maybe someone "fixed" or "analyzed" the Adapter and needed a new one.
  
 @UntilThen have you ever tried the quad EL3N and C3Gs how is that?
  
 Take Care Everyone and have a great Weekend.
  
 WB


----------



## Oskari

Guys, here's something I saw on that auction site.



I'd call this proof that the _A_-factory-code EL3Ns were indeed made by _WIRAG_ in Vienna, Austria. These tubes commonly show _Made in Holland_ but, as usual, that can't be trusted.

It seems that this tube was made in 1960 (_0_ year) which matches quite nicely with the 6137. I assume that's a YYWW date.


----------



## UntilThen

I too think that our new gleaming EL3N stocks from Peter are 1960s instead of the 40s or 50s. However what does it matter. Mine is sounding sweet and interference free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WB, strange that I've tried everything as drivers with quad EL3N but not C3G. Let me do that now and see if we get Vivaldi 6 seasons.


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> yeah I know waiting will be hard, luckily??? I have set aside a fixed Budget for tubes and Adapters so I don't go crazy while I wait. Well if Felix gets enough orderrs there is the possibility of doing it in paralel, hence the wait for when they'll start might be reduced but who am kidding it will be another 6 weeks...
> 
> ...


 
  
  


oskari said:


> Guys, here's something I saw on that auction site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wonder if those with "MiniWatt" and/or "PTT" on them might perhaps be of the higher quality?...but even those could vary between batches perhaps, as surely must be the case with pretty well _any_ tube, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...it does indeed seem that a certain amount of _luck_ is involved even with NOS tubes (which is, of course, one of the weapons in the armoury of those who prefer SS!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## UntilThen

I listened to 4 songs. One track of Vivaldi 4 seasons, Fourplay - Max-O-Man, Pink Floyd - Hey You and Ray Charles / Norah Jones - Here We Go Again on these tubes.
  
 In - cre - di - ble 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	















  

  
 4 seasons through JRiver ...man JRiver is the river of no return. It's good. I've just purchase the Master license to play on PC, Mac and Linus.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Am finally back to my current favorite combination EL3Ns/Chatham 6AS7Gs. *Will probably stay there until the dual adapters arrive.*
> 
> Hope you and everyone else here have a nice weekend. The weather here in Scottsdale is beyond spectacular


 
 Get what you need done now because the dual adapters will change your life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm having a great weekend thank you. Summer's almost over. Sooooooo glad.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> ps.  And hey, @UntilThen...we've certainly given MrsX something to smile about, methinks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@hypnos1, Mrs X owes you an XO me thinks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 She can't keep up with the adapters (all kinds) orders now. You think only Feliks Audio has this problem?


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> man this post is growing fast. Hard to keep up if you don't read it every day, even harder to catch up with so many new Posts.
> 
> ...


 

 G'day WB. Your friend's not the only one who thinks well of the EL3N. Look at this review. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108/
  
 An extract of the review.
  
_*The gold* goes to the EL3N. It is closest to the 2A3 sound of any of the triode strapped pentodes tested. The EL3N makes music exciting._


----------



## UntilThen

Distortion on HE560 with C3G and quad EL3N at 2pm. HE560 on 6xEL3N works well. So fair warning to planar magnetic users.
  
 On T1 and HD650, it's incredible sound and details. I'm loving this setup too but I do prefer 6xEL3N.... just... not much more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Never heard HD650 sound so good than now with C3G and quad EL3N.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Get what you need done now because the dual adapters will change your life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The past three months have been a dizzying parade of glass bulbs constructed in a hidden bunker deep under the Lourve by Tibetan Monks smuggled into Paris by the Allies during the height of WWII (currently all sold out on Ebay), lightening rods, marshmallows cooked in the kitchen of the dear Mrs. Xuling and early plans to double all this madness with a 2017 balanced Elise!!!!
  
 After the adapters arrive, I'm returning to the real world and sanity with this modest upgrade: http://www.wired.com/2007/06/is_goldmunds_re/
  
 Yuk  You had to remind me. Our summer is quickly approaching (((


----------



## UntilThen

You don't need anymore tubes after that. So you can buy that huge paperweight and if you do I'll come and visit you in Arizona. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You don't need anymore tubes after that. So you can buy that huge paperweight and if you do I'll come and visit you in Arizona.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's it. One of your spares you keep in the den??? Might be worth it just to get you here


----------



## UntilThen

Don't sell your HD700 ...yet. It'll sound great with C3G and quad EL3N. I have on my HD650 for the past 1.5 hours and I thought I had on my T1. The Senn's now a different snow leopard. 
  
 So I went on eBay hoping to find more C3G but there's nothing there !!! I wrote to Peter for 4 more EL3N and he hasn't replied. I hope @Oskari hasn't bought them all.
  
 Oh there are some C3G from Italy hehe. From Mr Da Vinci. Dang they look so old. Did he dig it up from the garden?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> G'day WB. Your friend's not the only one who thinks well of the EL3N. Look at this review. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108/
> 
> An extract of the review.
> 
> _*The gold* goes to the EL3N. It is closest to the 2A3 sound of any of the triode strapped pentodes tested. The EL3N makes music exciting._


 
  
 Yo, UT...read that some while back - _mighty_ encouraging! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Time for zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, UT...read that some while back - _mighty_ encouraging!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Good night mon ami. What an incredible 3 months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Didn't know Elise came packaged with happiness.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Our summer is quickly approaching (((




I wish...




untilthen said:


> I hope @Oskari hasn't bought them all.




Yes. Sorry. 

No, I think not.




untilthen said:


> Oh there are some C3G from Italy hehe. From Mr Da Vinci. Dang they look so old. Did he dig it up from the garden?




They surely look beaten.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Wonder if those with "MiniWatt" and/or "PTT" on them might perhaps be of the higher quality?


 
  
 Miniwatt was just a subbrand. I'd say that the difference between Philips, Miniwatt, and Philips Miniwatt is spatiotemporal. PTT _may_ have had additional testing.
  
 Do you see the letters LU in the photo? That's actually KLU. This comes from _Koninklijke Luchtmacht_ aka RNLAF.
  
 There are bound to be differences, though. The timespan and multiple factories kind of guarantee that.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I too think that our new gleaming EL3N stocks from Peter are 1960s instead of the 40s or 50s. However what does it matter.


 
  
 It doesn't really. These are just things I like to know.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Don't sell your HD700 ...yet. It'll sound great with C3G and quad EL3N. I have on my HD650 for the past 1.5 hours and I thought I had on my T1. The Senn's now a different snow leopard.
> 
> So I went on eBay hoping to find more C3G but there's nothing there !!! I wrote to Peter for 4 more EL3N and he hasn't replied. I hope @Oskari
> hasn't bought them all.
> ...







oskari said:


> I wish...
> Yes. Sorry.
> 
> No, I think not.
> They surely look beaten.



I have those beaten up C3gs. I like mine.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I have those beaten up C3gs. I like mine.


 
 Yeah ? They are good? Perhaps I should get a pair. Any difference between the engraved logos and the printed ones? 
  
 Well I was obsess with 2A3 for the better part of today and so decide to Google it up and came upon DNA Stratus..... ok I need to erase my mind now before I get too obsessed because that blue colour is love at first sight.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Yeah ? They are good? Perhaps I should get a pair. Any difference between the engraved logos and the printed ones?
> 
> Well I was obsess with 2A3 for the better part of today and so decide to Google it up and came upon DNA Stratus..... ok I need to erase my mind now before I get too obsessed because that blue colour is love at first sight.



I'm happy with mine.


----------



## UntilThen

@arie123 we need to talk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Is your pair of C3Gs still around?


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> @arie123 we need to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not sure how many pair of C3g Arie has....but I bought one pair of C3g/s off of him 
  
 They have not arrived yet......probably just leaving Germany about now....pretty excited to get them as they are wonderful detailed driver tubes in my amp.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Not sure how many pair of C3g Arie has....but I bought one pair of C3g/s off of him
> 
> They have not arrived yet......probably just leaving Germany about now....pretty excited to get them as they are wonderful detailed driver tubes in my amp.


 

 Good on you then. His pair of Valvo C3Gs looks lovely and it's probably his only pair. It's the 'S' version too. I was going to trade my new Chatham 6AS7G for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've been on C3G and quad EL3N the whole day and it's pretty amazing sound. However I've just swapped back to 6xEL3N and like it immensely so I should be fine.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure how many pair of C3g Arie has....but I bought one pair of C3g/s off of him
> ...


 
 If you have one nice pair of C3g tubes...you are set for a good long while, as they are 10,000 hour tubes...so I am sure you will be able to find a nice back up set by the time you would need them.
  
 You need to stock up on those EL3N's


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> If you have one nice pair of C3g tubes...you are set for a good long while, as they are 10,000 hour tubes...so I am sure you will be able to find a nice back up set by the time you would need them.
> 
> You need to stock up on those EL3N's


 

 Tick on the 10,000 hours and tick on stocking up on EL3N or I needn't worry about those and eventually get an amp build on the 2A3.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > If you have one nice pair of C3g tubes...you are set for a good long while, as they are 10,000 hour tubes...so I am sure you will be able to find a nice back up set by the time you would need them.
> ...


 
 True....the least adapters one has to use...the better IMHO.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Don't sell your HD700 ...yet. It'll sound great with C3G and quad EL3N. I have on my HD650 for the past 1.5 hours and I thought I had on my T1. The Senn's now a different snow leopard.


 
 UT:  You are on to something. Tried my HD700s with 2XC3G and 2XEL3N. I feel a little foolish even saying this. But that combo literally transforms my HD700s. It cleans up the coloration and allows them to shine. Can't wait for the quad EL3Ns.
  
 I don't understand how any amp can clear up the problems of a headphone like the HD700 which seem to be the result of design problems that produce undesirable spikes and resonances. From all I have read no amp ever really solved the problems with the HD800s. It took Sennheiser years to come up with a relatively minor design change that may or may not be an improvement - depending on who you listen to.
  
 Hmmmmmm. My T1s are still within the 30-day return period!!! Or right now, HD800 is selling on Amazon for the exact price I paid for the new T1 Gen 2. Life was certainly much simpler in my pre-Elise days ))))


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> UT:  You are on to something. Tried my HD700s with 2XC3G and 2XEL3N. I feel a little foolish even saying this. But that combo literally transforms my HD700s. It cleans up the coloration and allows them to shine. Can't wait for the quad EL3Ns.
> 
> I don't understand how any amp can clear up the problems of a headphone like the HD700 which seem to be the result of design problems that produce undesirable spikes and resonances. From all I have read no amp ever really solved the problems with the HD800s. It took Sennheiser years to come up with a relatively minor design change that may or may not be an improvement - depending on who you listen to.
> 
> Hmmmmmm. My T1s are still within the 30-day return period!!! Or right now, HD800 is selling on Amazon for the exact price I paid for the new T1 Gen 2. Life was certainly much simpler in my pre-Elise days ))))


 
  
 Hi pct.
  
 Certainly looks like the C3g/EL3N combo does wonders for the Senns - always thought the C3g was a gift from the Gods for the 650s, lol! And now it partners well driving the EL3N?...._*wonderful!*_





. Good work @UntilThen... we really are amassing some great combo possibilities for Elise folks!
  
 But yes, even _more_ difficult decisions now for your HPs, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   GOOD LUCK!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Oskari

2 * C3g + 2 * EL3N didn't work at all for me. Don't know why.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  You are on to something. Tried my HD700s with 2XC3G and 2XEL3N. I feel a little foolish even saying this. But that combo literally transforms my HD700s. It cleans up the coloration and allows them to shine. Can't wait for the quad EL3Ns.
> 
> I don't understand how any amp can clear up the problems of a headphone like the HD700 which seem to be the result of design problems that produce undesirable spikes and resonances. From all I have read no amp ever really solved the problems with the HD800s. It took Sennheiser years to come up with a relatively minor design change that may or may not be an improvement - depending on who you listen to.
> 
> Hmmmmmm. My T1s are still within the 30-day return period!!! Or right now, HD800 is selling on Amazon for the exact price I paid for the new T1 Gen 2. Life was certainly much simpler in my pre-Elise days ))))


 

 Hey I did not say return the T1 lol. T1 sounds much better with 6xEL3N or C3G and quad EL3N. To my ears at least.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> 2 * C3g + 2 * EL3N didn't work at all for me. Don't know why.


 
  
 I think using 2xEL3N is not going to work as well. Let me try it now.
  
 Can you expand on what's not working for you?


----------



## UntilThen

untilthen said:


> I think using 2xEL3N is not going to work as well. Let me try it now.
> 
> Can you expand on what's not working for you?


 

 I had thought that using just 2xEL3N as powers might be struggling for control but it didn't manifest that problem. T1 and HD650 still sounded good to me on 2xC3G and 2XEL3N.
  
 Sheffield Drum and Track Disc still sound tonally correct.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Can you expand on what's not working for you? :bigsmile_face:







oskari said:


> Incidentally, my Elise doesn't like C3g drivers with EL3N powers: distortion.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Incidentally, my Elise doesn't like C3g drivers with EL3N powers: distortion.


 
 Interesting.... or rather sad lol. No distortion here. Crystal clear sweet sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Tennessee Waltz by Allan Taylor amazing voice and acoustic guitar.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
 Was looking at some Ultron 6BL7GTA tubes. It seems to me that these are re-branded GE tubes. The reason why they are priced at over $20 each appears to be that they have been cryo treated.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6BL7GTA-TUBE-ULTRON-BRAND-TUBE-CRYOTREATED-C6HV6F080115-/311248546364?hash=item4877dbea3c:g:XmEAAOSw1vlUrmaU
 What do you think of this?
TUBES ARE CRYOGENICALLY TREATED, WITH MULTISTAGE PROCESS
- decrease in tensions were manufactured.
 - Decrease in tensions in the internal welds
- increases the longevity of the tube, by decreasing the operating temperature ( 10%-15% )
  
Manufacturing imperfections at the microscopic level, improve
  
involving:

- better sound quality
- better sound fidelity
 - more immersive atmosphere, a three dimensional feeling of the music, 
- more musical body, 
 
in short, better sound quality.
  
Measurable aspects, the emission increases and the transconductance, decreases gas and microphones. ( tested in my amplitrex at1000, with less than 1% error )

Travel through the website and check what I am commenting
 
 
MULTISTAGE CRYOGENIC PROCESS.
 
*ABSTRACT*
*The multistage cryogenic process is an evolution from the conventional cryogenic treatments of materials. It needs shorter process time achieving the same or even better results.*
*This paper introduces some basic fundamentals of these treatments, their effects and applications, the equipment, etc. Some examples with different materials and from different industrial sectors are also presented as well as some brief comments about R&D and future trends of the technology.*
  
INTRODUCTION
  
People usually relates heat treatments with high temperatures, but thermal treatments can also involve cooling. Although it has been traditionally considered that deep cold temperatures have no permanent effect on the materials, it is not true at all.
Heat treatments were already known and used centuries ago but the access to really low temperatures was only possible in relatively recent days. Although the first experiences took place at the beginning of last century, it is not possible to properly speak about industrial cryogenic treatments of materials until the 70’s when the liquefied gases became more affordable and the treating equipment had more accurate process control systems.
During the 80’s and 90’s the use of this technology increased and some treating facilities were opened, mainly in the US. Nowadays it is possible to find cryogenic processing companies in many countries all over the world.
Although still hardly known and used in Europe, the cryogenic treatment of materials is a technology that is slowly getting acceptance in industry. It basically consists in submitting the materials to deep low temperatures for increasing some of their performance characteristics like wear resistance or fatigue life.
1. THE PROCESS
Cryogenic treatments basically consist in submitting the materials to deep cryogenic temperatures (below 120K) following predetermined time-temperature curves in order to enhance some of their physical or structural properties.
According to the previous definition, it must be noticed that the subzero processes (at about -80 ºC) that are used in many traditional heat treating facilities to reduce the austenite content in some tool steels cannot be considered cryogenic treatments.
1.1 Conventional cryogenic treatments
There is no a standard process for cryogenic treatments but most of them are quite similar. In conventional cryogenic treatments the materials are slowly cooled down to a temperature
around -180 ºC and maintained for a period of time that lasts from eight hours to two or even more days. After the soak, the materials are slowly heated up to ambient temperature. Sometimes the treatment is completed with a soft tempering. The entire process typically needs two to three days to be completed.
There is a conventional process sub-category called “wet process“ where the soak is made by submersion in liquid nitrogen. Anyway, the previously described “dry process“ (no liquid nitrogen in the chamber) is more widely used.
The cryogenic treatments are performed in chambers designed for this purpose. The material is usually cooled using liquid nitrogen that is introduced in the processor through solenoid valves controlled by computer. Most of the modern chambers have heaters that also allow to control the temperature during the heating phases of the process.
1.2 Multistage cryogenic process
The multistage cryogenic treatment is a more advanced process that has been developed as an evolution from the conventional ones. In this treatment the isothermal soak at cryogenic temperature is substituted by several cryogenic cooling/heating phases. This process is more effective but its main advantage is that it is much faster (an average of fifteen hours for the whole process) than the conventional ones.
The cryogenic chambers that are used to apply a multistage cryogenic treatment are specially designed to perform this type of process.
  
  
 Personally, I am skeptical.....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> What do you think of this?
> 
> Personally, I am skeptical.....




Snake oil. That's what I think. 

P.S. It's Sylvania.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Snake oil. That's what I think.




+ 1


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> G'day WB. Your friend's not the only one who thinks well of the EL3N. Look at this review. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108/
> 
> An extract of the review.
> 
> _*The gold* goes to the EL3N. It is closest to the 2A3 sound of any of the triode strapped pentodes tested. The EL3N makes music exciting._


 

 Yeah, my friend the Audio installer  mentioned I should also check out the Combo with C3G but warned me that it can be tricky due to interference. I was curious if this was due to potential ground Loop interference due to not being balanced, because he ran the Combo balanced alas with only single ELN3. Glad it can work on the Elise. He told me that the combo was really something, not neutral, but for the Price very, very "noiiice".
 Have you tried to see if the interference you are getting with the HE560 is due to electromagnetic interference? Maybe put a Faraday Cage around the Elise, e.g. a metal box or a metal trash can (which I have used). He warned me that cables shielding and good source of electricity, Phase correct and preferably conditioned, will affect those tubes. Just ordered mine (c3G) from Tube Depot.
 Peter's EL3Ns look nice and yeah they seem to be sixties from what he wrote to me.
  
 Take Care
 WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> I think using 2xEL3N is not going to work as well. Let me try it now.
> 
> Can you expand on what's not working for you?


 
  
 After seeing the nice Videos on triodes vs. pentodes on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo4nVjj4NSE
  
 It Shows the benefits of running triodes in the preamp but it would seem best not to push them too hard to cause interference. Now running 4xELN3 will allow you to more easily stay in the interference free Region it appears. That could likely be the culprit
  
 Take Care,
 WB


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Interesting.... or rather sad lol. No distortion here. Crystal clear sweet sound. :bigsmile_face:




It could be these particular tubes, although both pairs (C3g & EL3N) work beautifully driving GEC 6080WAs.

In other news, the EL3Ns have improved considerably with burn-in, _or_ the arrival of a much better DAC. The relative dryness has changed to a much livelier presentation.


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Yeah, my friend the Audio installer  mentioned I should also check out the Combo with C3G but warned me that it can be tricky due to interference. I was curious if this was due to potential ground Loop interference due to not being balanced, because he ran the Combo balanced alas with only single ELN3. Glad it can work on the Elise. He told me that the combo was really something, not neutral, but for the Price very, very "noiiice".
> Have you tried to see if the interference you are getting with the HE560 is due to electromagnetic interference? Maybe put a Faraday Cage around the Elise, e.g. a metal box or a metal trash can (which I have used). He warned me that cables shielding and good source of electricity, Phase correct and preferably conditioned, will affect those tubes. Just ordered mine (c3G) from Tube Depot.
> Peter's EL3Ns look nice and yeah they seem to be sixties from what he wrote to me.
> 
> ...


 

 What I am getting with HE560 and C3G / quad EL3N is not interference. It's more like drivers breaking up. Ugly sound. Mind you, this doesn't happen with 6xEL3N which also has more volume gain compared to using C3G as drivers.
  
 I'm listening with HE560 now with C3G and Chatham 6520 and it's pure music. Volume at 11am is loud and with total control.
  
 Whilst I like the EL3N, there are many tubes in my collection that sound superb and that works flawlessly with my dynamics or planar magnetic headphones. For instance Fivre with Chatham. Elise is a different amp now from the days of stock tubes.


----------



## Suuup

Which headphones do you use @Oskari?


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Which headphones do you use @Oskari?




Sennheiser HD 600.

Why?


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> Good on you then. His pair of Valvo C3Gs looks lovely and it's probably his only pair. It's the 'S' version too. I was going to trade my new Chatham 6AS7G for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Of course, I still have my own pair of the C3Gs (and no amp yet to use it in for about one more month ..) and your trade proposal interest me. If you are serious, just send me a PM UT..


----------



## aqsw

oskari said:


> Sennheiser HD 600.
> 
> Why?




Oskari,
sounds like our amps are brothers with the same problems. Planars or dynamics, same problems.

I'm stuck with the 6080 powerss. Seems these are the best for my amp.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm posting what I believe to be a breakthrough buzz solution, posted by a brand new Head-Fi'er on another tube amp thread
  


> Originally Posted by *d3rrlck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm fairly new to headfi but i've been following this thread for quite sometime. I have rolled quite a few tubes in my ember2, including 6L5G and 6J5G in dual adapter, both of which made my ember2 a marvelous hum generator. I've tried all sorts of grounding including running an extra wire from the ember chassis to the outlet ground which signigicantly reduced the hum but still audible enough to be noticeable. So I'm sharing this solution to my fellow ember users who are experiencing hum from some tubes. This solution works so well for me,* it completely eliminated the hum *and it shielded the ember2 from any form of EMI around the vicinity of my house.
> 
> Meet the ember2 in *faraday cage*. The cage is made from* aluminum mesh which i bent* in accordance to the ember2 dimension. The cage is grounded to the ember chasis. You'll besurprised how dead quiet the ember after installing the cage.


  



d3rrlck said:


> @ joespride and @ jaywillin
> 
> You can can get the aluminum mesh from amazon. The dimension is 6x36". I got mine from customcargrill (sorry I'm not allowed to post a link yet).
> 
> *You can also do this temporary solution by wrapping the tube with aluminum foil *(take note the foil should be grounded to the chasis) while waiting for your aluminum mesh which I call the mummified ember. I know it doesn't look pretty but it works too


 
  
Here is the fence he was using, although we would probably need one a bit taller for the Elise... not to mention a way to get it to wrap around any extra-wide quad tube setup, and still do the trick.
  
 My main reason for suggesting this is so that we can now perhaps use 'loud' tubes that we couldn't use before.


----------



## aqsw

I meant powers. Changed it in he original.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I meant powers. Changed it in he original.




Have you tried 6BL7 as powers, aqsw?


----------



## aqsw

decentlevi said:


> I'm posting what I believe to be a breakthrough buzz solution, posted by a brand new Head-Fi'er on another tube amp thread
> 
> 
> Here is the fence he was using, although we would probably need one a bit taller for the Elise... not to mention a way to get it to wrap around any extra-wide quad tube setup, and still do the trick.
> ...




Sorry, but the last thing I'm doing is putting my beautiful Elise in jail.!


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Have you tried 6BL7 as powers, aqsw?




No, Ive wasted so much money on Mazdas and TS 5998s, I just dont have the desire to throw more money away.:mad: I am quite happy with the 6080s nd EL3Ns.

I will probably get the dual el3n adpters. Still have 6 new el3ns.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Sorry, but the last thing I'm doing is putting my beautiful Elise in jail.!




Does seem like locating and eliminating the emi interference culprit, would have been a better solution, at less cost and hassle than a DIY faraday cage.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> No, Ive wasted so much money on Mazdas and TS 5998s, I just dont have the desire to throw more money away.:mad: I am quite happy with the 600s nd EL3Ns.




Hear ya. But remember your saying all ST shaped bottle powers seemed to cause you trouble, the 6BL7 tubes are inexpensive and not ST shaped. 

Just thought they might be a good alternative for your amp. 

6BL7 also sound better tha 6AS7G or 6080's. All frequencies benefit. 

Also, did you win that auction for the planar headphones?

Thx...


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> Of course, I still have my own pair of the C3Gs (and no amp yet to use it in for about one more month ..) and your trade proposal interest me. If you are serious, just send me a PM UT..


 

 Hooray I hope it's still the Valvo C3G with the 'S' ... pm coming.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Hear ya. But remember your saying all ST shaped bottle powers seemed to cause you trouble, the 6BL7 tubes are inexpensive and not ST shaped.
> 
> Just thought they might be a good alternative for your amp.
> 
> ...




I got beat last minute on the lcds. The ethers sound very good though. Im not too disappointed.


----------



## aqsw

My wallet is closed on new purchases for awhile. I receive my new dac in two weeks. I upgraded to dsd usb input. Don't know if I will ever use it, but my son is happy.


----------



## Oskari

aqsw said:


> Oskari,
> sounds like our amps are brothers with the same problems. Planars or dynamics, same problems.
> 
> I'm stuck with the 6080 powerss. Seems these are the best for my amp.





To be honest, I haven't tried many drivers with the EL3Ns. The stock Tung-Sols were fine driving them.


----------



## mordy

Hmmm, I remember a lot of old tube amps came with metal cages..
  




  
 Did it say to wrap the tube with aluminum foil? Or was it the amp?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hey I did not say return the T1 lol. T1 sounds much better with 6xEL3N or C3G and quad EL3N. To my ears at least.


 
 I'll be keeping the T1s )))


----------



## Oskari

*A musical interlude*


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhx4gfVaL5A[/VIDEO]


----------



## WB2016

Hi Everyone,

yeah my friend also had his EL3N's behind a cage. Although the cage was just on top of the amp,not sealing the entire amp, just covering and protecting the the tubes. It also served as a tube protector and you could still see the tubes he said. That being said, the embers chasis is open and most of the time made of plastic so then a full enclosure would be needed. The Elise as I understood it has a chasis out of metal, so you would only need a mesh over the tubes. Not sure if this will solve the problem with electorstatics, but would be interesting to see if it has some effect on the Elise for some of the more finicky tubes. I have a nice metal mesh paper waste basket, Ikea I believe, that I used to check if my wifi was causing issues with devices, ground, done. Turned out it was my neighbors wifi that caused some issues....

The C3Gs seem to already have a Faraday enclosure themselves, I wonder if you could make one for the eL3ns with the adapters and just use the ground of the adapter.

I would also like to know if the 4xEl3n vs 2xEl3ns with c3gs causes less issues. Likely you can run the el3ns in the sweet zone.

Take Care,
WB


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Thanks for the suggestion of the Faraday cage. Fascinating. Easier to do than cleaning up my cable snake pit lol.
  
 Did a little reading reading on Wikipedia:
  
 A *Faraday cage* or *Faraday shield* is an enclosure formed by conductive material or by a mesh of such material, used to block electric fields. Faraday cages are named after the English scientist Michael Faraday, who invented them in 1836.[1]



Play media
  
   Video of a Faraday cage shielding a man from electricity


 A Faraday cage operates because an external electrical field causes the electric charges within the cage's conducting material to be distributed such that they cancel the field's effect in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used to protect sensitive electronic equipment from external radio frequency interference (RFI). Faraday cages are also used to enclose devices that produce RFI, such as radio transmitters, to prevent their radio waves from interfering with other nearby equipment.
  
 Faraday cages can also be designed for frequency specifics attenuation based on mesh size, i.e. 30mm mesh size will allow RF signals above 10Ghz (3cm) through with no or very little attenuation. Longer waves are also better blocked, like CB, AM radio, versus high frequency RF signals above 70GHz which are more difficult to shield against.
  
 So far Wiki..
 Now, a few questions:
  
 Does it matter what kind of metal?
  
 Does the size of the holes make a difference for our purposes?
  
 How close to the object does the cage have to be?
  
 How about a wire mesh waste basked as an inexpensive alternative to making a cage DYI?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Rolodex-Round-Wastebasket-Diameter-22351/dp/B00006IALF/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456102931&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=aluminum+wire+mesh+waste+basket
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This wire basket should fit over the tubes and transformer on the Elise. Won't look pretty, but could be used to test the concept. And if it doesn't work out, you could always use it for a waste basket......
  
 Here is another one in silver for less than $8:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007B8RLWO/ref=psdc_11601926011_t3_B007B8RLXI
  
 What do you think?


----------



## connieflyer

You need tubes like this one....http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-18040-Mesh-Plate-Metal-Base-TUNGSRAM-PENTODE-TUBE-NOS-18046-/300629767391?hash=item45feee34dfmS3EILa_P6EXzDYCFnSyLMw


----------



## WB2016

Yup that's my wastepaper basket, It works fine. Any conducting metal should be fine, Ideally ground it on the chasis or an external ground. 

Fun to try out and if has an effect I would just get something a tad prettier. I am sure there are some nicer cages and as an added benefit it protects the tubes. 

If you look at some top of the line tube amps such as those by EAR Yoshino you will find that all their amps have Faraday cages over the tubes. 
http://www.earyoshino.com/products/

Those are some great amps.

Cheers
WB


----------



## connieflyer

Something like these tubes, stainless steel looks good...http://www.wiremesh-products.org/wiremeshproducts/filter-mesh.html


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion of the Faraday cage. Fascinating. Easier to do than cleaning up my cable snake pit lol.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is something I have yet to try, but was just quoting somebody who has. All I can do is speculate, but you can contact user @d3rrlck as he has experience with this. Here's a little more from his posts:
  
 "..._I ran out of idea on how to eliminate the hum so I consulted with Jeremy of Garage1217, in which he told me this:_
  
_"*The 60hz hum is likely due to the large tubes and adapter acting like an antenna*. No real workaround for this. A good quality linear supply like the one we will be releasing soon will probably help with this as 60hz hum would be coming from electronics / mains and other transformers in the vicinity"_
  
_So this led me to googling about "EMI shielding" in which I learned about the Faraday cage. So to test this solution on ember, I started with aluminum foil which I eventually replaced with aluminum mesh cage (because I could not stand the look of the aluminum foil lol)"_
  

  
 Since it appears the reason for the hum is related to the 'antenna effect' inside certain tubes, that the above way should be equally effective, if not even better than shielding the whole amp - especially since the Elise is already said to be shielded internally. So I would actually recommend somebody trying this on some of the louder tubes with the Elise. Probably for the ground connection, just attach the other end to the RCA-out (my guess).
  
 Or, thanks to Mr. ConnieFlyer, we could also try using these over the suspect tubes:

 This would be a little prettier than foil, yet a bit like a witch hat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 - not to mention how to determine the fit in advance. So probably just wrapping a mesh grille around the tube would be prettier
  
  
 EDIT: He also said on the thickness:
 "_Some of the aluminum mesh has raw thickness of .03 inch. This might be too thin and soft. I'm using the one with the hex pattern which is .06 inch thick_."


----------



## DecentLevi

And one final time quoting D3rrlck from another thread:
  
 "_To get the same benefit from jail solution, you will need to wrap the tube all the way down to the base of the adapter to completely shield it from EMI. Just make sure that the foil should not touch any of the solder points in the adapter as this could introduce a short. If you want a complete shielding, I would highly suggest to diy a Faraday cage. I also noticed with dual tube setup that it tends to pickup noises from my wifi router, and cellphone. If you heard a noisy USB source from laptop, it sounds similar to that (like a morse code beep in rapid succession). The faraday cage will also shield / eliminate those noises._"


----------



## tjw321

I used to work in a Faraday cage.
  
 To be truly effective, it has to entirely enclose the item, and the holes have to be smaller than the wavelength of the frequencies you want to block. But I think that acoustic frequencies in EM radiation have a wavelength of several kilometres so that is why you can get away with leaving the bottom open. It also means that you don't have to be too fussy about the mesh size. But is is 4am here so don't trust anything I'm saying which involves any kind of coherent thought ATM.


----------



## UntilThen

Surprise to see all these funny metal cages. Are you guys experiencing funny hums?


----------



## DecentLevi

Nah I just posted those because I recall some people here have reported hums with some of their tubes, as a possible good solution. Plus I may need something like this for my incoming Elise, as all my power plugs are non-grounded (2-prong only here). I would be interested to see how these EMI shield methods work for some Elise owners who have tubes they deemed unusable due to loud buzz


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> It could be these particular tubes, although both pairs (C3g & EL3N) work beautifully driving GEC 6080WAs.
> 
> *In other news, the EL3Ns have improved considerably with burn-in, or the arrival of a much better DAC.* The relative dryness has changed to a much livelier presentation.


 
  
*Both, O! *




  
 (Note...my shortest post _ever_ - must be catching, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but probably won't last!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


decentlevi said:


> Nah I just posted those because I recall some people here have reported hums with some of their tubes, as a possible good solution. Plus I may need something like this for my incoming Elise, as all my power plugs are non-grounded (2-prong only here). I would be interested to see how these EMI shield methods work for some Elise owners who have tubes they deemed unusable due to loud buzz


 
  
 Yo DL...an interesting way to try and eliminate things 'humphrey' if necessary.
  
 And @connieflyer's mesh filter suggestion looks promising, if the size is right...
  
 But as with others' occasional _distortion _using the EL3N, mine also must have been down to being overdriven - haven't tried with _dual _EL3Ns as powers though...happy enough with my CV2523/A1834s lol!


----------



## Suuup

My new Philips Miniwatt FDD20. Paid 12€ + 9€ shipping = 21€ in total. I'd say it's a pretty good deal, especially considering how good this tube is. 
  
  



  
 Now let's see if there's really a difference between the RVC and Philips Miniwatt.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> *Both, O! *


 
  
 Yes, I think so too.
  


> (Note...my shortest post _ever_ - must be catching, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> My new Philips Miniwatt FDD20. Paid 12€ + 9€ shipping = 21€ in total. I'd say it's a pretty good deal, especially considering how good this tube is.
> Now let's see if there's really a difference between the RVC and Philips Miniwatt.




Those are beautiful, Suuup!

Bet you will hear some difference.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> My new Philips Miniwatt FDD20. Paid 12€ + 9€ shipping = 21€ in total. I'd say it's a pretty good deal, especially considering how good this tube is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep S, pretty good price lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for will it be better?...possibly - is it NOS at all? Those we got from the 3 for £19 vendor (listed 'used' but wrapper seal not even touched!) were absolutely pristine...beautiful tubes!! I do hope yours is equally good...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Yep S, pretty good price lol...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Should be NOS. 
  
 Haven't tried them yet, as it's so fiddly to change the FDD20, since I have to align the heating wires correctly. I've had no sound a couple of times due to incorrect seating.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @arie123, have Loreena's 'An Ancient Muse' running through my brain at this very moment, and...OMG!! - tell Lukasz you *must* have your Elise _*now!!*_...even if you have to "make him an offer he can't refuse" lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....the thought of you having to wait for this glorious sound is killing _me_, let alone _you!_







  
 I have _never_ heard bass tones like this before, and as for the gamut of blown instrument sounds...well, I'm simply speechless (and that's pretty rare for me, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Stroked, plucked, bowed instruments are simply divine...as his her beautiful voice. And once again, the quality of the sound recording is quite magnificent....THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for encouraging me to delve deeper into her repertoire. Can't wait for "Mask and Mirror" to arrive, along with the others, if this is anything to go by! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Sorry...must go now - I've got to give this music my FULL attention!! ....CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

Well, @arie123 and guys, just had to add to my last post, having only just come down from the clouds after basking in the magic of Loreena McKennitt's "An Ancient Muse", which I think I may well come to love even more than her "Book of Secrets".
  
 I mentioned previously the amazing bass tonal _range_...I must now add _depth_ and _impact_ - I never realised these tubes (EL3N/GEC CV2523s); this amp, and the Beyer T1s were capable of such intense power, dynamism and pure magical _energy_.
  
 And the vast range of instruments - some _very_ exotic Middle-Eastern indeed! - only add to the excitement and emotion. Coupled with a Masterclass in record engineering/mixing, and I'm running out of superlatives for this incredible album. Such skill is, I'm sure, enhanced by the appropriately named "Enhanced" CD status - I had to keep looking at the readout on my Audiolab 8200CD to make sure it was in fact 16/44.1kHz CD, and not 24/192kHz hi-res...the sound is truly remarkable.
  
 And despite the _enormous_ bass presence, even the most delicate of treble notes are heard clearly and distinctly...with simply delicious mids riding between the two extremes.
  
 This is the  most awe-inspiring sound I have ever heard from Elise - I just hope and pray others can enjoy this level of delivery. I count myself lucky in the standard of all the other elements in my system, but above all (besides Elise, of course!), I am obviously in possession of what WB's buddy would call an "exceptional" pair of EL3Ns, _plus_ an equally exceptional pair of GEC 6AS7Gs, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 Can't wait to hear this gal's other works...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....HAPPY LISTENING y'all!...


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @arie123, have Loreena's 'An Ancient Muse' running through my brain at this very moment, and...OMG!! - tell Lukasz you *must* have your Elise _*now!!*_...even if you have to "make him an offer he can't refuse" lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Too much credit hypnos1. You discovered her all by herself and I was lucky that your discovery reminded me to play her music again! I always feel it is ultimate winter music that warms you from within. As for Lukasz - I have no money left to make that offer he can't refuse, it's all in tubes


----------



## WB2016

Hi H1,

sounds like an interesting pair of tubes. Heard of them and thought well I still have 120 Euros in my tube budget this month and it would not require an adapter. Wow $450 used!!! Ouch So there are some holy grails for the Elise as well but they are a bit pricier than I expected. Well until all the tubes I ordered burn in I might have some more cash. You know you've got the tubebug when half the tubes your buying cost more than 3/4 of the amp

Did you get the el3n from Peter at Acoustic Dimension? The 60s PTTs? Just ordered those.

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> My new Philips Miniwatt FDD20. Paid 12€ + 9€ shipping = 21€ in total. I'd say it's a pretty good deal, especially considering how good this tube is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats Suuup. Those are very nice looking tubes with those Philips Italia stickers and good price too. I could hear differences between the RVC and Miniwatt but not by a lot.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Too much credit hypnos1. You discovered her all by herself and I was lucky that your discovery reminded me to play her music again! I always feel it is ultimate winter music that warms you from within. As for Lukasz - I have no money left to make that offer he can't refuse, it's all in tubes


 
  
 No, mon ami...not too much at all! - don't know why, but I hadn't got round to thinking about her other albums, so the thanks remain lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And Lukasz...money?...was thinking more in the line of Godfather, Don Corleone!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(but then, those without their Elises yet would be saying the same about _me!!_








...).
  


wb2016 said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> sounds like an interesting pair of tubes. Heard of them and thought well I still have 120 Euros in my tube budget this month and it would not require an adapter. Wow $450 used!!! Ouch So there are some holy grails for the Elise as well but they are a bit pricier than I expected. Well until all the tubes I ordered burn in I might have some more cash. You know you've got the tubebug when half the tubes your buying cost more than 3/4 of the amp
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo WB....holy grails indeed they are, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but just _sometimes_ 'sleepers' appear (so long as you have the eyes of an eagle!). Best price at the moment seems to be a Canadian vendor with a good few in stock at $199 each, NOS!...:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-CV2523-A1834-A-1834-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/121881779444
  
 And yo again....you sure do have the 'bug', lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yo again re the EL3Ns...I wish you an "exceptional" pair, just like mine!...


----------



## WB2016

Thanks, 
now I will be in the funny situation of having 6xEL3Ns with the Elise still being 5 weeks away or so. Haven't even heard anything regarding begin of construction yet. Assume the El3Ns will be here by the end of the week. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Thanks,
> now I will be in the funny situation of having 6xEL3Ns with the Elise still being 5 weeks away or so. Haven't even heard anything regarding begin of construction yet. Assume the El3Ns will be here by the end of the week.
> 
> Cheers
> WB


 
  
 You're not the only one in such a situation, alas!...I feel _all_ your - and others' - pain LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but "_keep the faith!"_...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 I'm trying out Mask and Mirror on Tidal at 16/44.1. There are a few albums here. The Elemental, The Visit, Parallel Dreams, to Drive the Cold Winter Away....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glorious haunting mystical music.
  
@WB2016 a lot of us got our EL3N tubes from Peter and those are good NOS tubes. Look at this store and the goods he sells. He has just invoiced me 4 EL3N. Price have gone up a bit since I last bought but I ain't complaining. He has sold out completely not too long ago and these are his new supplies. @arie123 must be busy making those tubes.
  
 We aren't spending a lot on tubes compared to those who are buying 2A3s. A good pair of those will make the GEC 6AS7G look cheap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However,  i have to report again that the EL3N are truly special tubes. I firmly believe they are approaching 2A3 sonics just reading the DNA Stratus impressions. BIG sound....that was in my thoughts when I heard the EL3N too. I could pair EL3N in any combination and there's no mistaking the EL3N sound signature. It's euphonic. I'm running with 2xEL3N and 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7 now. Amazing sound too. 2xEL3N and 4x6SN7 or 6xEL3N or 2xC3G and 4xEL3N. These are my fav setups now.


----------



## WB2016

Hi UT,
Well the EL3Ns pretty close to the 2A3s from what I have heard, unless you go to holy grails. 

Now you have enough EL3Ns that you could try 8xELN3 and C3gs and see if this resolves the issues with electrostatics. See if running the EL3Ns in their sweet spot will let you run the HE560s without feedback. I still think there is a good chance that those tubes are so sensitive, especially when going over a specific limit that the electrostatics will give it a feedback loop. I would like to try the faraday cage and see if it makes any difference.

Most of the really high end amps have such caging because even if your electronics are perfectly true you're likely going to get interference from some external source.

Cheers
WB


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 I'm trying out Mask and Mirror on Tidal at 16/44.1. There are a few albums here. The Elemental, The Visit, Parallel Dreams, to Drive the Cold Winter Away....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...you gotta give that "An Ancient Muse" a look also - absolutely phenomenal!!
  
 And you're right about the GECs (especially at $400 the pair, NOS)....there are people paying _vastly_ more for tubes, which puts things back into perspective, even though we are still talking a fair bit of money. But to my way of thinking, what I've saved on buying the reasonably priced Elise has gone to tubes that certainly take her into another league entirely, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. However, if your 4xEL3N power set-up can match them, then that must be an extremely good option. The question then remains : which option will last _longer?_ I haven't the faintest clue myself, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and then there could be the 6x 6BL7 option! (but needing external power supply, unfortunately...)....not forgetting the _aesthetics_, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Aaahhh......decisions, decisions!.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hi UT,
> Well the EL3Ns pretty close to the 2A3s from what I have heard, unless you go to holy grails.
> 
> Now you have enough EL3Ns that you could try 8xELN3 and C3gs and see if this resolves the issues with electrostatics. See if running the EL3Ns in their sweet spot will let you run the HE560s without feedback. I still think there is a good chance that those tubes are so sensitive, especially when going over a specific limit that the electrostatics will give it a feedback loop. I would like to try the faraday cage and see if it makes any difference.
> ...


 

 Hi WB,
  
 I do not need to run 8xEL3Ns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  HE560 is only behaving strangely with 2xC3G and 4xEL3N. T1 and HD650 are flawless in that setup. I much prefer my dynamic headphones now so that doesn't worry me. Beside I can listen to HE560 with 6xEL3N with no problems. So I have no idea why it is distorting like the drivers are breaking up with C3G and quad EL3N. Non issue for me though. HE560 sits in a corner now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm still waiting to trade my new pair of Chatham 6AS7G with Arie's new pair of Valvo C3G/s. One of us must be mad.


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hi UT,
> Well the EL3Ns pretty close to the 2A3s from what I have heard, unless you go to holy grails.
> 
> Now you have enough EL3Ns that you could try 8xELN3 and C3gs and see if this resolves the issues with electrostatics. See if running the EL3Ns in their sweet spot will let you run the HE560s without feedback. I still think there is a good chance that those tubes are so sensitive, especially when going over a specific limit that the electrostatics will give it a feedback loop. I would like to try the faraday cage and see if it makes any difference.
> ...


 

 Sorry I disagree with cages. Look at the DNA Stratus or the EC 2A3 tube amps. You don't see those caged. It would be sacrilegious. A well implemented tube amp using correct tubes should not distort. FYI I did not have distortion with HE560 until paired with C3G and quad EL3N. All other combinations works. I can accept some anomalies there. I'll just disregard C3G and quad EL3N with HE560. Besides the distortion is not electro magnetic interference. It's more to do with under driven.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you gotta give that "An Ancient Muse" a look also - absolutely phenomenal!!


 
 Ok Ancient Muse isn't on Tidal. So perhaps I get this from HDTracks. Where did you get yours?


----------



## WB2016

Hi UT,

Ah OK did not understand it was a type of being underdriven then forget that. But I did notice a lot of the amps that use the EL series are shielded, e.g. EL34 and eL84s, by using cages. Very difficult to talk if you still cannot try it out yourself. 

Cheers,
WB


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Ok Ancient Muse isn't on Tidal. So perhaps I get this from HDTracks. Where did you get yours?


 
  
 Was lucky, UT - got my "Enhanced" CD from an Amazon (UK) Market trader of used CDs at a good price...and in mint condition! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Do you have a similar set-up down under, lol?...GOOD LUCK!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Oskari

wb2016 said:


> I did notice a lot of the amps that use the EL series are shielded, e.g. EL34 and eL84s, by using cages.





Mostly because of cats and dogs and little fingers.


----------



## pctazhp

We old geezers remember audio before transistors:
  

 Note the cage )))
  
 Music before it ceased to be music:
  

  
 AND analog before digital:

  
 What does any of this have to do with the Elise?? Absolutely nothing !! So I'm going to hibernate until my dual EL3N adapters arrive and I have something possibly useful to report


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Ah OK did not understand it was a type of being underdriven then forget that. But I did notice a lot of the amps that use the EL series are shielded, e.g. EL34 and eL84s, by using cages. Very difficult to talk if you still cannot try it out yourself.
> 
> ...


 
 No worries WB  You'll get to try out for yourself soon but experiment safely. We're using a lot of tubes that are not endorsed by Feliks Audio with great success. What doesn't work we will just let others know. I think we say it too often already, Elise sounds very good even in standard 6sn7 and 6as7. 
  


hypnos1 said:


> Was lucky, UT - got my "Enhanced" CD from an Amazon (UK) Market trader of used CDs at a good price...and in mint condition!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I need to check   We have a big local forum where CDs are being sold off very cheaply by members. Jazz, classical, all sorts. However I want to try this 'An Ancient Muse' album because there's a track of the same title on Tidal that is unprintable. !!! 
  


oskari said:


> Mostly because of cats and dogs and little fingers.


 
 LOL... sometimes big inquisitive fingers too.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> What does any of this have to do with the Elise?? Absolutely nothing !! So I'm going to hibernate until my dual EL3N adapters arrive and I have something possibly useful to report


 
 A lot.   Is that your caged Dynabit?
  
 Love that video. First time I heard this group but they can sing. !


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> A lot.   Is that your caged Dynabit?
> 
> Love that video. First time I heard this group but they can sing. !


 
 Wish it was mine, but no. Just a picture I found when I remembered it had a cage. I did hear it once - I think with a pair of Advent speakers. Everything sounded good back then )))
  
 Glad you liked the video.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Wish it was mine, but no. Just a picture I found when I remembered it had a cage. I did hear it once - I think with a pair of Advent speakers. Everything sounded good back then )))
> 
> Glad you liked the video.


 

 Another 4 EL3Ns comes to 112 euros including shipping. This has to be my last tube purchase. P, make sure I don't buy anymore tubes. I have to follow H1 chasing music instead. 
  
 Wow after that video, another came on... Massachusetts by Bee Gees. A real trip down memory lane.


----------



## DecentLevi

@hypnos1 so did you say that CV2523/A1834 ar your favorite tube combo so far? From searching, it seems CV2523 is the same as the GE 6AS7GA, right? And I was able to find a pair of A1834 being sold - for almost 3x the cost of Elise!!!
  
 So ther's a difference between Phillips Miniwat and RVC FDD20 - which is considered better? And @UntilThen which one is it you gave me? My label was scrubbed off with the paint removal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh also one more technical question for today - does a single 6BL7, and the 6AS7GA tubes need adaptors?
 Thanks so much guys!


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1 so did you say that CV2523/A1834 ar your favorite tube combo so far? From searching, it seems CV2523 is the same as the GE 6AS7GA, right? And I was able to find a pair of A1834 being sold - for almost 3x the cost of Elise!!!
> 
> So ther's a difference between Phillips Miniwat and RVC FDD20 - which is considered better? And @UntilThen which one is it you gave me? My label was scrubbed off with the paint removal
> 
> ...


 
 The painted ones are RVC. I don't know if they're just rebranded Philipd Miniwatt or not. People here says there's a difference. Haven't tested it myself.


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1 so did you say that CV2523/A1834 ar your favorite tube combo so far? From searching, it seems CV2523 is the same as the GE 6AS7GA, right? And I was able to find a pair of A1834 being sold - for almost 3x the cost of Elise!!!
> 
> So ther's a difference between Phillips Miniwat and RVC FDD20 - which is considered better? And @UntilThen which one is it you gave me? My label was scrubbed off with the paint removal
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL...just a quickie before zzzzzzzzz
  
 CV2523 and A1834 are basically the same thing - ie GEC/Osram 6AS7Gs (but can have other brand names also, eg 'MWT', 'MOV'). And so by my 'combo', I mean EL3Ns driving the GECs. And they most certainly are _*not*_ the same as the GE 6AS7GA, mon ami!!...a world apart, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (hence the fancy prices...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Several of us found the 'Philips Miniwatt' FDD20s to be slightly better than the RVC branded ones.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1 so did you say that CV2523/A1834 ar your favorite tube combo so far? From searching, it seems CV2523 is the same as the GE 6AS7GA, right? And I was able to find a pair of A1834 being sold - for almost 3x the cost of Elise!!!
> 
> So ther's a difference between Phillips Miniwat and RVC FDD20 - which is considered better? And @UntilThen which one is it you gave me? My label was scrubbed off with the paint removal
> 
> ...


 

 I think I can answer all that without an exorbitant fee. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 GEC 6AS7G or CV2523 or A1834 are basically the same tube and is as different from the GE 6AS7GA as the moon is from the sun.
  
 It's our speculation that the Philips Miniwatt are the S version of the FDD20 but who knows. You got the grey paint which is the RVC version from me. There's an iota of difference I can tell you that. Probably placebo too. However most are drawn to the nice presentation of the Philips Miniwatt FDD20 with the original tax stamp and the date 25th May 1942. I got my Miniwatt from Giavianoii for US$60 a pair. Some of these guys are lucky and got it real cheap. 
  
 You can use the 6BL7 and 6AS7GA as power tubes in Elise and they don't need adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

See here the presentation? 
  
    
  
 and paint removed...


----------



## UntilThen

Tubes on duty today. C3G and GE 6AS7GA. Very noiice  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My HE560 is fine with this setup. 11am is loud and I do miss the planar magnetic. It's still special. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@Lorspeaker this amp with all the tubes is still $2888. Be quick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This setup is really good with HE560. Amazing details. Very nice bass and vocals.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I received the Transformer with the 20 amps of 6.3 volts (AC) coming from the secondary winding that was suggested:

http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/

I also bought a 30 amp rectifier as I was concerned that AC straight out of the Transformer secondary winding would be 
'60 hertz HUM' city.

But, I am pleased to report that I simply hooked the transformer up to a 2 prong AC cord (no ground pin) and then the secondary leads straight to the leads to heat the (4) 6BL7's...

Silence!

No hum at all, even with the volume up all the way.

Delightful!

I am happy to say that I plan to heat all of my eventual tube compliment (6) - 6BL7's and (2) 6SN7's via this external transformer. 
The current draw will be 10.2 amps. 
That will be just a hair over 50% of what the transformer can deliver (20 amps).

My heating worries are gone, forever, and the Elise will run cool as a cucumber, as a happy side effect.

Can't wait for Mrx Xuling's (6) 6BL7 adapter (3x per 6AS7 socket).

Cheers to the *LUCKY* ones, and Cheers to the even *LUCKIER* ones, with an external 20 amp 6.3v transformer...


----------



## UntilThen

Ears don't lie. Personal preference is best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have to chuckle at this reading a forum discussing gear.


----------



## Lorspeaker

this 1/4in adaptor snapped(??) inside my $200cambridge 340A amp hdfone socket...
 almost threw away the amp...cos my spkrs wont sound.
 Then...untilthen, a longnose plier did the trick


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> this 1/4in adaptor snapped(??) inside my $200cambridge 340A amp hdfone socket...
> almost threw away the amp...cos my spkrs wont sound.
> Then...untilthen, a longnose plier did the trick


 
 What happened there? !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You have to be gentle with audio gear. Don't treat it like tour players with their tennis rackets.
  
 Looks like I save you.


----------



## Lorspeaker

old oxidized socket i guess...
 choked the life out of the plug,
 what we need is Squalene magic oil from Japan. 
  
  
 apply on the pins of your oldtubes...
 the electrons will swim like sharks .


----------



## UntilThen

Dang please provide the link for this Japanese oil. I'm keen on swimming electrons.


----------



## UntilThen

Show me your Elise !!! 
  
 I'll start. New expensive headphone stand - $10.


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> old oxidized socket i guess...
> choked the life out of the plug,
> what we need is Squalene magic oil from Japan.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi L..."magic oil" eh? Now, you've prompted me to pose a question that is no doubt as controversial as many others in hi-fi land (thinking fancy cables/sockets/plugs/tube 'rings'/equipment feet, etc. etc.) - ie. there are those "in the know" who say the very best signal transfer is _*metal to metal*_, especially when the contact surfaces can be kept airtight. _Apparently_, in time, some kind of phenomenon creates _perfect_ conditions for unadulterated electron transfer. But yes, how often can that contact be _airtight_ lol?!
  
 Obviously, if both surfaces are of non-oxidising metal (like gold), then the chances of establishing (and maintaining) this 'perfect transfer' must be fairly good..._unless constantly tube 'rolling', lol!!_  And if the pins/socket receptors do have corrosion, then removal back to smooth, shiny metal should do the trick...but will indeed need re-doing occasionally if corrosion returns!...and then it will take a while for the 'special' bond to re-establish once more, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...(which is why I personally use a cheap plating kit to gold plate any pins that seem prone to such corrosion).
  
 In other words, the question is : do those treatments that place some kind of coating onto the metal actually _prevent_ the 'special' metal-to-metal synergy from being established over time?...However, if they _inhibit _corrosion, the benefit of course is reduced need for regular contact cleaning!
  
 So as usual, it's _decisions, decisions!!_





.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Show me your Elise !!!
> 
> I'll start. New expensive headphone stand - $10.


 
  
 That stand is _so_ _cool_, UT!...and only $10?...WOW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but a bit scary on a dark, dank night lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Which reminds me - the Feliks guys are in the process of looking into their own headphone stand. Would have loved to showcase this also, but unfortunately don't have enough room on my equipment stand to house it! (Hoping Lukasz can provide a design pic soon...).


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> That stand is _so_ _cool_, UT!...and only $10?...WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That skull is perfect for the Wars of the World listening session. Switch off the lights and let the tube glow reflect on the skull and let the aliens grab you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's a discounted Christmas cookies jar with a lid that can be opened for the cookies, to munch while you listen to music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes $10 what a bargain.
  
 I have no idea Feliks Audio is producing a headphone stand. Can we provide input lol ? I want a bust of Beethoven .... next to Elise, it would be perfect. Next choice is Homer Simpson.


----------



## Lorspeaker

hypos1, u have a plating kit..wow.
  
  
  
 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETTEN_No.1
  
 i dun read jap, but looks like the one i have


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Yes, I think so too.


 
  
 Hmmm - now which particular statement would that be referring to, I wonder lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(methinks you know me too well, O! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Now then, mi amigo, having done the decent thing and upgraded your DAC, no more messin' around..._*get those CV2523/A1834s*_ and be done with it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(you _know_ you want to, lol!... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> hypos1, u have a plating kit..wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Had considered trying to learn a bit of Japanese after watching NHK on Sky for some time now, but one look at your link has made me come to my senses, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 But at least I can see the magic word "Carbon" which, of course, is used as an electrical contact medium in all sorts of applications. And which, alas, brings me back to my previous musing on the fact that such coatings are in fact preventing the pure _metal-to-metal_ contact of the two surfaces that would appear to be the _ideal_. So I think I'll stick to the gold plating, L!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

GEC 6AS7G or 6xEL3N. That's approaching a 2A3 setup sound.


----------



## WB2016

Hi EL3N users,

have been reading up on the EL tubes because Tim de Paravicini is a big fan. He is sort of THE tube/valve guru in the UK and responsible for the valve renaissance in the UK. Maybe I will get a chance to meet him before the Munich High End, but not sure how his health is since he is getting up there in years. Would be cool, he's a freind of my "installer" friend in the UK and had a chance to get the EAR amps at a good price, but that still is quite a bit above my budget. Plus de Paravicini likes the amp to be 100% neutral, like a balck box. I rather like some coloring, maybe because I am (still) not a golden or platinum ear. Anyway to get prepared for the possible meeting I did some reading not to make a total fool of myself Here are some things that might interest some on Head-Fi.

Anyway, de Paravicini likes the EL tubes a lot, actually not a big fan of the 300Bs because they do not last.


"Tim, as always, was keen to cut a new path through the forest and ignored the weak and vulnerable, inferior and obsolete direct-heated triodes (such as the 300B). He based his design on his favorite valve, the 6KG6/EL519, developing a new operating mode called Enhanced Triode Mode, or ETM for short."

"This revolutionary new circuit cleverly tied the control grid (G1) to the cathode, removing the potential difference between the two, and fed the control signal into the screen grid (G2). This gave better, more linear results than directly heated triodes, with the added advantages of high anode power rating, good valve availability and maximum reliability.

This was put together in a DC-connected, low feedback pure Class A circuit, that automatically compensates for valve spread, maintaining excellent, reliable, sound quality for an extended period of time."

Tim: "Designing our single-ended amplifier has proven far more difficult than I first imagined. The first major problems were the reliability and quality of current production triode tubes. Most of the fashionable tubes tested (300Bs etc) offered very poor performance. Driven hard in single-ended mode these tubes give l0W, but with poor reliability - only a few hundred hours use - and diabolical performance. I wanted a minimum of 10W of clean single-ended power, plus a good few thousand hours of valve life. Surely no customer wants to be spending hundreds of pounds on new output valves every couple of months.'"

Source: http://www.allegrosound.com/EAR-Yoshino_869_2_AllegroSound.html

Some interviews on stereophile and why he is considered the King of Tubes.

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/990paravicini/
http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/1107parav/index.html

If someone wants to get some ideas on new tube combos to try that are cost effective and exceptional:
http://www.earyoshino.com/products/

EL84
EL34
ECC88
ECC83
6L6
KT66

Using 6SL7 for the headphone amp

I really like his approach of not being compromising but still looking at a great value. Although the amps are pricey they are considered a very good value in the High End World all the way from recording to reproduction. 

Guess all that reading is making me a bit of a fanboy, although I don't like the brutal neutrality, you got to respect a different approach that is somewhat reflected in our experiences with the EL3Ns.

Cheers,
WB


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm - now which particular statement would that be referring to, I wonder lol?! :wink_face: ...(methinks you know me too well, O!  ).




Both, C! :rolleyes: 




hypnos1 said:


> Now then, mi amigo, having done the decent thing and upgraded your DAC, no more messin' around..._*get those CV2523/A1834s*_ and be done with it!!    ...(you _know_ you want to, lol!... :happy_face1: ).




Well, yes, but... the GEC 6080WA is really quite good indeed. Should I say good enough? And the best part: they cost nothing since I already have them.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> GEC 6AS7G or 6xEL3N. That's approaching a 2A3 setup sound.


 
  
 Could well be, UT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Both, C!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fair enough...after all, the GEC 6080 is basically the 6AS7G in a straight bottle, lol! (at a fraction of the cost! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...glad you like 'em - and that _they_ like the EL3Ns also...


----------



## wild bill

The problem with GEC, Tung-Sol, Mullard, et al is that these are all old names of incredible sound quality vintage tubes from the 1940's/50's/60's and they have long since whored out their name to crappy tubes from China, Russia and other places and really have no relationship to the tubes that made these names famous.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Show me your Elise !!!


 
  
 We bring you this photographic double feature (in atrocious quality because we only care about the sound quality).
  

  
_Elise feeling shy_
  

  
_Elise having a dinkel_


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> We bring you this photographic double feature (in atrocious quality because we only care about the sound quality).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wot, no Coors, Heineken, Lowenbrau...FFFFOSTERS, lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> I bought the Fivre 6N7G as well. I was the only one bidding. I need to find out for myself for the same brand whether there is a difference between 6A6 and 6N7G.


 

  
 This is a post for Fivre 6N7G wannahaves...
  
 Later Elise buyers like me (3 more weeks (or more?) of desperate waiting ahead ... ) have probably been looking for these Fivre 6N7G tubes on e.g. Ebay. They are hard to find! Untilthen established that 6A6 tubes with the same top construction with the 'horns'' sound the same. The good thing: these are a lot cheaper. The bad thing: these 6A6 (was it Visseaux and/or Fivre?) are also no longer to be found on Ebay. Or are they..
  
 I stumbled on some 6A6 tubes on Ebay (left in the picture), labeled as Ultron. On the right is a Fivre 6N7G.
  

  
  
 Ultron is a German relabeler of (mostly) European tubes. As you can see, the top construction is fully identical. I bought 4, of which 2 turned out to have brown bases, two were black but the interior was always the same. Look for 6A6 in combination with the word mixed on ebay and you will find them. These are 12 euro's each...Don't forget to mention you want the Ultrons specifically. I have no possibility to test the tubes but I have no doubt that the construction is fully identical. Only the getter shows very minor differences.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Wot, no Coors, Heineken, Lowenbrau...FFFFOSTERS, lol?!!! :wink_face: ...




Elise and I, we support the craft brewers.


----------



## UntilThen

A thread that has pictures of Elise with C3G and GEC 6080WA and Finnish beer gets my attention all the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Furthermore the picture of the Ultron and Fivre 6A6 makes me smile now. Great find Arie. They do sound lovely. Now those brown base, eager to hear from you when you get your Elise if they sound different to the black base.
  
 Oskari, what C3Gs are those? I'll be getting Arie's Valvo C3G/s .... if they make it across the oceans in a sailboat.


----------



## UntilThen

These are my Visseaux and Fivre 6A6. I have not touch them for a while.


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> Furthermore the picture of the Ultron and Fivre 6A6 makes me smile now. Great find Arie. They do sound lovely. Now those brown base, eager to hear from you when you get your Elise if they sound different to the black base.
> 
> Oskari, what C3Gs are those? I'll be getting Arie's Valvo C3G/s .... if they make it across the oceans in a sailboat.


 
  
 I would be very surprised to find any differences between black and brown base but I will report on this later.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Oskari, what C3Gs are those? I'll be getting Arie's Valvo C3G/s .... if they make it across the oceans in a sailboat.




Lorenz of the matte kind. Lovely tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I've a pair of Lorenz too but with the shield removed. In other news, my replacement GE 6BL7GTA from Vivatubes came. This time I selected NOS NIB and gleaming like new.  Dave from Vivatubes is amazing. He told me he will reimbursed me fully for the humming pair that I'm sending back to him...shipping all paid for by him both ways. What a champ. Guys ..... buy from Vivatubes with confidence.
  
 Set up to run my intended combo 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 without external power supply. 1st good news is the 6BL7 light up with a nice glow. 2nd good news is there is no hum. Pure silence. Excellent.  
  
 Just one song from The Hunter album by Jennifer Warnes. ..'Rock You Gently'. This song has solid bass. Pretty good for 1st song and hardly burn in. Now to mow the lawn. 
  
 Later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh I listened with HD650...in case it blows up my headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright had a bit more testing with 4x6BL7 with various drivers. At this stage it's more of what works rather than an evaluation session. Tubes needed to be burn in more before I do an evaluation.
  
 So far I've tried with:-
  

2 x Voshkod 6N23P and 4 x GE 6BL7 GTA
2 x RCA 6BQ7A and 4 x GE 6BL7 GTA
2 x RCA 6SN7GTB coin base and 4 x GE 6BL7 GTA
  
 All works without problems. A big disclaimer here. _*Number 3 is way over Elise total heater threshold of 6.5A. So you do so at your own risk if you're not using external power supply.*_ I'd probably say up to 6.8A is ok but number 3 is sitting at 7.2A. However much to my surprise, there seem to be no untoward issue running #3 for the duration of 5 songs !!! A greater surprise...Elise is not even warm when I touch the transformer housing at the end of 5 songs.
  
 Number 2 is a surprise. It sounded very good. Well I shouldn't be surprised. They use the 6BQ7A as a driver in the DNA Stratus with great results.
  
 That's it for now and the mandatory picture of 6SN7 with 6BL7.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is the 20 amp 6.3 volt secondary transformer:





Looks like Frankenstein-ish now, but I have some bits and pieces on the way that will make it look nice and neat.

Dare I say that I am NOT over my Elise's heating capacity 

Heard from Mrs Xuling, she has the boards and is working in the 3x per 6AS7G (6 total) 6BL7 "bridge" adapter.

Very much looking forward to the "bank" of 6BL7's as powers.

Spent a couple of hours this weekend revisiting Chatham 6AS7G as powers to the Sylvania 1940's 6SN7's.
Sounded great. But I am absolutely certain that 6AS7G masks mid and high freq details, that multi 6BL7's bring to the party.

Also noted the 6BL7's heat up much faster with the 20 amp supply.
Not using any rectifier, 6.3 volt secondary in AC form. There are three wires coming off the secondary transformer
tap. 

(2) Green are 6.3 volts of AC, a yellow/green wire goes to ground and boom, totally silent much quieter than using DC (which was a big surprise).

Highly recommend this Transformer to extend your tube rolling possibilities. 
Wish this had been a factory upgrade option, in fact...

Cheers...


----------



## whirlwind

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is the 20 amp 6.3 volt secondary transformer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh man....I am going to be all in on those 3X 6BL7 to use as powers......I have been waiting for this.....hoping it would happen!
  
 Very nice.....THANK YOU


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is the 20 amp 6.3 volt secondary transformer:
> 
> Looks like Frankenstein-ish now, but I have some bits and pieces on the way that will make it look nice and neat.
> 
> ...


 
 JV, it seems the adapter is ready! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276
  
 I want to get a transformer like that. I have find one in Europe.


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> ...... I want to get a transformer like that. I have find one in Europe.


 
 to get a similar transformer 3.15V 20A 0 3.15V 20A built by hammond give a look at mouser :
 http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/266V6B/?qs=gF4h2Znc3LDQ2Zdtz5YrTw%3d%3d
 It does not have any shielding but a metalic cabinet is enough for such usage.
  
 In US (115V world) you can get Triad transformer but none are built for European usage where standard 234V is used


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> JV, it seems the adapter is ready! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276
> 
> I want to get a transformer like that. I have find one in Europe.




Hello Suuup....

Very nice! Mrs Xuling contacted me last night and said it was ready. I have one, incoming 

I asked her for one set of heater wires, exiting the rear of the adapter. This one has two sets, exiting the front, but appear to both go to the same terminals on the board. When I get mine, I will determine the feasibility one cutting one set out. Looks like you could also route it under the plastic cover and come out the rear. That is what I hope to do.

But, looks good, I like the low profile, will be more stable/solid spanning the two 6AS7 sockets.

@Suuup, the place where I got my Transformer has a dizzying array of Transformers. I would see if they have one for your mains voltage, get the part number and look around, and see if you can find one in Europe.

The Transformer is one serious piece of kit! Very well made, heavy duty, if you run out of current with this baby supplying, you should _not_ be listening with headphones, but wearing a hard hat, instead 

Link to the Transformer again:
http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/

Cheers, peeps!


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Oh man....I am going to be all in on those 3X 6BL7 to use as powers......I have been waiting for this.....hoping it would happen!
> 
> Very nice.....THANK YOU




Note the 3x per 6AS7 adapter Suuup links to, is specific to the Elise. I'm sure Mrs Xuling will be happy to produce them as 3x per 6AS7 octal socket (for use in a Glenn or Darkvoice etc) if you ask her to make them.

Do you know what the current capacity is, in your Glenn, @Whirlwind?

Enjoy!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Suuup....
> 
> Very nice! Mrs Xuling contacted me last night and said it was ready. I have one, incoming
> 
> ...



Try running 6x 6AS7G.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Really looking forward to see how the bridge sextuplet adapter works out! By measuring my Elise it seems that this bridge adapter will protrude about one inch on each side.
  
 6 x 6AS7? 15A of current draw. Add in 20% for in rush current and you end up with 18A - should be doable for your transformer.


----------



## connieflyer

Looking for info on these tubes......Thomson-CFS NOS/NIB 6080WA black plates tubes - France.  Any thoughts, recomendations?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Really looking forward to see how the bridge sextuplet adapter works out! By measuring my Elise it seems that this bridge adapter will protrude about one inch on each side.
> 
> 6 x 6AS7? 15A of current draw. Add in 20% for in rush current and you end up with 18A - should be doable for your transformer.




Hello Mordy...

I tried 1x 6BL7 and 1x Chatham 6AS7 for each 6AS7 socket, last night...

As soon as you add a 6AS7, the "magic" that the 6BL7 brings to this amp, is destroyed.

The details and instrument spacing that the 6BL7 brings are masked by the 6AS7. You get nice sounding "blobs" via 6AS7, they sound good, but subtle details and tight articulation in the bass gets buried.

In changing back to 2x 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket, the added mid and high freq details return. Bass goes deeper and is far more controlled / articulated. 
The larger sense of room/air/space between instruments is also realized.

Will report on 3x 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket when I get the new adapter, am expecting more goodness 

Might even try 6x 6BL7's as powers and 2x 6BL7's as drivers!

That would be: 15 amps running, and 18 amps for the "20% inrush" - also doable with the external 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer.

Cheers!


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> Looking for info on these tubes......Thomson-CFS NOS/NIB 6080WA black plates tubes - France.  Any thoughts, recomendations?


 
 I have a pair of them, and for the money (inexpensive) they are very good. I am partial to 6080s though, as they are tubes that my amp actually likes.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks, just ordered a pair from parts connexion thought I better get some new tubes while waiting on Elise to be built


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Mordy...
> 
> *I tried 1x 6BL7 and 1x Chatham 6AS7 for each 6AS7 socket*, last night...
> 
> ...


 
  
 C'mon JV...that's a non-starter from the off, lol!...not a true and fair view of the 6AS7G in Elise!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## mordy

hi h1,
  
 I am waiting for the shootout: 4 or 6 6BL7 vs GEC A1834/6AS7.
  
 Chevy vs McLaren.
  
 UT,
  
 Ford vs Holden?




 Holden EL3N
  




  
 Ford 6BL7


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> C'mon JV...that's a non-starter from the off, lol!...not a true and fair view of the 6AS7G in Elise!! :wink_face: ...




My ears, my gear YMMV.

Don't think you have tried multi 6BL7's, have you, H1?

You might be surprised at what you hear, when and if, you do :wink_face:


----------



## nojdrof

jerick70 said:


> You may want to look at the Yulong DACs.  I have the DA8 and DA8 II and am really impressed with their performance with the Elise.  Of course you would need to buy used.
> 
> Also, I've heard the Hegel HD12 is stunning with the Elise.
> 
> On that note, everyones tastes are different so I would recommend you listen before you buy or purchase with a no questions asked return policy.


Ok after bringing home 5 different dacs decided nothing sounded significantly better than my Music Streamer II under $500 then $700, so wanting to upgrade my Blu-ray player I decided to step it up and bought the Oppo bdp-105d and it sounds incredible! Still waiting on my Elise ordered it on 12/17. Lukasz said I'm #2 in production slot on 2/8 so I'm NOT patiently waiting.  Can't wait to join in the fun of tube rolling.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> My ears, my gear YMMV.
> 
> Don't think you have tried multi 6BL7's, have you, H1?
> 
> You might be surprised at what you hear, when and if, you do


 
  
 Hi JV.
  
 Multi 6BL7s may well appeal to some, to be sure, but as I don't recognise any of the 'apparent' shortcomings in my own set-up, I'm afraid I'm leaving behind the "Frankensteining" of my LittleDot days - I love Elise as (basically) she is, albeit with non-stock EL3N drivers...to each his/her own, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 It will be interesting to see how 6x 6BL7 fare in Elise, as opposed to Glenn's amp that was specifically configured for their use. Perhaps she will pull off yet another miracle! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. It's just the 6BL7/6AS7G dualling (du*e*lling!) that threw me, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

nojdrof said:


> Ok after bringing home 5 different dacs decided nothing sounded significantly better than my Music Streamer II under $500 then $700, so wanting to upgrade my Blu-ray player I decided to step it up and bought the Oppo bdp-105d and it sounds incredible! Still waiting on my Elise ordered it on 12/17. Lukasz said I'm #2 in production slot on 2/8 so I'm NOT patiently waiting.  Can't wait to join in the fun of tube rolling.


 
  
 Good choice on the Oppo, nojdrof...I believe it has basically the same ESS Sabre DAC as in my Audiolab8200CD player (and obviously as well-implemented - if not better!). So I can understand your glee, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I could kick myself for not going for the 105 instead of my 103 (with the Wolfson DAC), which just doesn't have the same 'excitement' as the Sabre, alas....wouldn't have needed the Audiolab!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ENJOY!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad you'll soon be experiencing even further joy when your Elise arrives....


----------



## vince741

nojdrof said:


> Still waiting on my Elise ordered it on 12/17. Lukasz said I'm #2 in production slot on 2/8 so I'm NOT patiently waiting.  Can't wait to join in the fun of tube rolling.


 
 I think mine will be made just after yours (was 4th in production 10 days ago).


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV.
> 
> Multi 6BL7s may well appeal to some, to be sure, but as I don't recognise any of the 'apparent' shortcomings in my own set-up, I'm afraid I'm leaving behind the "Frankensteining" of my LittleDot days - I love Elise as (basically) she is, albeit with non-stock EL3N drivers...to each his/her own, lol  ...
> 
> ...




Hello H1...

Not to worry the "Frankenstein Look" will be resolved in a few days.

I have no doubt 6x 6BL7's as powers will bring 'more goodness" to the Elise party. Shame about external power, but 'no pain, no gain', as they say. Too bad, no 20 amp heater option from the factory, 'eh?

I do wish you would try multi 6BL7's so that you can have an understanding of what is literally 'not heard' using the 6AS7 family of tubes.

You will be in instant convert, no doubt 

Cheerio....


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1...
> 
> Not to worry the "Frankenstein Look" will be resolved in a few days.
> 
> ...


 
 I can get a 12V power supply for free. It would be pretty much perfect. If I want to run 6V tubes, I can wire them in series, if I want to run 12V tubes, I can run them in parallel. It requires the 4x heating wires from the bridge adapter though. 
  
 Do you know what happens, if you only put 4 tubes in the 6x adapter? Would it still work?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I can get a 12V power supply for free. It would be pretty much perfect. If I want to run 6V tubes, I can wire them in series, if I want to run 12V tubes, I can run them in parallel. It requires the 4x heating wires from the bridge adapter though.
> 
> Do you know what happens, if you only put 4 tubes in the 6x adapter? Would it still work?




When wired in Parallel, 4 of 6 will work. 

When wired in Series, no, you would need all 6, to complete the circuit.

The 6x adapter I had Mrs Xu Ling make, is wired in Parallel, 6.3 volts @ 9 amps (for all 6 tubes 4.5 amps per side).

Another adapter could be made to use 3x per side, in series, resulting in 18.9 volts @ 3 amps (for all 6 tubes 1.5 amps per side).

Unknown what (if any) sonic characteristics would change, if wired in series rather than parallel.




.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> I think mine will be made just after yours (was 4th in production 10 days ago).


 

 Good to hear nojdrof and vince.


----------



## whirlwind

jazzvinyl said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Oh man....I am going to be all in on those 3X 6BL7 to use as powers......I have been waiting for this.....hoping it would happen!
> ...


 
 Oh yeah, I see that now....I may just contact Mrs. Xuling and see what she can do.....Thanks.
  
 My amp will handle 13+ amps....so I just need an adapter with 3 sockets instead of the two sockets that she already makes.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 My dual 6BL7 adapters finally arrived, thanks to Mrs. Xuling.
  
 They look like little wing lets, and the Elise is soaring to new heights. It is as if I have a different amp. I'll try to pen my initial impressions.
  
 Firstly, two EL3n are in the driver's seat, powered by an external power supply. The power tubes are 4 x 6BL7GTA from the late 50's and early 60's; a pair of GEs and a Tung Sol and a Raytheon. I have a selection of BL tubes, and I could probably even get together a matching quad, more or less, but these sound good to me, so I chose them for the first trial.
  
 The first impression is volume. With 4 BLs the Elise plays louder than before.
  
The second impression is power, clarity, punch, detail, detail, detail.
  
 You don't have to strain to hear very subtle nuances in the recording - they jump out at you. The sound stage becomes three dimensional. You simply hear much more of what's going on in the studio or live venue with a much greater clarity than before. The bass goes lower than anything I heard before. Unbelievable instrument separation and dynamics.
  
 I completely concur with what JV wrote above: { I am editing the comments to paraphrase my own impressions}
  
_The details and instrument spacing that the 6BL7 brings out with subtle details and tight articulation in the bass._
_ Added mid and high freq details , bass goes deeper and is very controlled / articulated.
 The larger sense of room/air/space between instruments is also realized._
  
 Listening to the quad BL tubes it also becomes clear to me that the other tubes and tube combinations (even a single pair of BL tubes) mask some of the details in the mid range and bass. Those tubes sound very good, but the quad BL brings more to the table - stuff that you did not know was there suddenly becomes fully revealed.
  
 Glenn wrote that multiple BL tubes increase the drive. When I asked him if I could equate drive with torque to better understand what he meant, he agreed.
  
 It is as if the Elise has so much more reserve power. Imagine driving a small car up a big incline. The engine is struggling to keep up the speed, but it manages. Now, imagine a car with a huge engine going up the same hill - a little tap on the gas pedal effortlessly lets you overtake that little car. The entire driving experience is different in that powerful car.
  
 And the entire listening experience is different with the Elise with quad BL tubes. Old, familiar recordings sound different, with new life and detail and impact. Voices are also very natural.
  
 Now I have to figure out which driver tubes work the best with the quad BL tubes. JV suggested the 6SN7, so that will be next project - will try a favorite pair of RCA and the TS reissue.
  
 I can really recommend trying quad 6BL7 tubes as power tubes. It is not going to break the bank, and there are close to 400 offers on Ebay, some of them very inexpensive. (Mrs X made me a pair of budget adapters without the acrylic plates and without the rotating feature - if you want to go this route you could save some money as well.)
  
 H1, I would really like you to compare your GEC tubes with a quad (or sextuplet) of BL tubes.
  
 With 6A current draw the Elise is just slightly warm...
  
 Amazing......


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very Good, Mordy!

When I first encountered the 6BL7 (as singles and as drivers) I was not very impressed. I acknowledged that a single pair of 6BL7 as powers, things were more "interesting" - but I was still not very impressed.

When I got my 2x adapters, I was absolutely floored at what I heard. Positively awe struck, and have no desire to go back to 6AS7 now.

The details that come pouring fourth...that tight DEEP bass!! Those luscious mids, and highs...

It's like: "WOW, the microphones in the studio picked up a lot more than I was hearing, previously"...!!!! 

Multi 6BL7 "unmasks" the recording. The old saying: 'Veil lifted".

Those who don't think they have a veil...have not heard all that is in the recording (yet).

Also...I believe it is: "Mrs Xu Ling", not "Mrs Xuling".... 

Thank you Mrs Xu Ling, and thank you Mordy for hanging in there, and promoting the incredible 6BL7 and thanks of course to H1 for insisting on the birth of the Elise, and to Feliks Audio for making it come alive.

Cheers All....all you *LUCKY* ones!




PS @Mordy - give your best 6SN7's, the drivers' seats 





.


----------



## aqsw

I had an Oppo Ha1 before I got the Elise. I liked the unit as a whole, but the sabre dac was its weak point. It really wasn't very good. Glad I got rid of it. The Elise and the Hegel absolutely kill it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I finally got around to measuring the voltage that the Stock Elise sends to it's heater pins.

Mine measures 6.7 volts of AC (with no load, i.e.: no tubes attached)

They do not convert the AC to DC, they use AC straight out to the heater pins, and observe the "tightly twisted" wiring method that is known to greatly reduce hum potential, when using *A*lternating *C*urrent to heat tube filaments. 

As explained in this well written document from the UK:

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/heater.html



.


----------



## connieflyer

For fans of Loreena, like hypnos1 and Untilthen I give you one of my favorites................


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> For fans of Loreena, like hypnos1 and Untilthen I give you one of my favorites................




Very very nice! 

Love the time lapses of the Milky Way going by, too


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> I finally got around to measuring the voltage that the Stock Elise sends to it's heater pins.
> 
> Mine measures 6.7 volts of AC (with no load, i.e.: no tubes attached)




Did you measure that loaded?

What about your external transformer loaded/unloaded?


----------



## Lord Raven

The best Jazz sound through Mazda 6N7G and Chatham 6AS7G. However, I cannot go loud, there's distortion or clipping. Average volume listening is least fatiguing  I'm in love with 6N7G sound for Jazz music. Mazda does not pair well with 5998 cause again, huge gain causes clipping in sound  

 to all the lucky ones


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> The best Jazz sound through Mazda 6N7G and Chatham 6AS7G. However, I cannot go loud, there's distortion or clipping. Average volume listening is least fatiguing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Same problem I had. Sold my 4 Mazdas and my 5998s.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Did you measure that loaded?
> 
> What about your external transformer loaded/unloaded?




External Transformer is dead on 6.3 volts AC loaded and unloaded. 

But the Elise voltage @ 6.7 is certainly not a problem, of any concern.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Female singer for "The Collection":


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmaDGAlLvU[/VIDEO]


----------



## Lord Raven

Your quad is sold? LOL I checked my Mazda in UT's Elise and there was no distortion. Don't remember what tubes we listened to in powers lol

Mazda sound is addictive though, jazz sounds so good. It'll be hard for me to part with them. Distortion appears only at very high volumes. I cannot stand that high level of music. 



aqsw said:


> Same problem I had. Sold my 4 Mazdas and my 5998s.


----------



## Audict123

lord raven said:


> The best Jazz sound through Mazda 6N7G and Chatham 6AS7G. However, I cannot go loud, there's distortion or clipping. Average volume listening is least fatiguing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some time ago the idea was raised to replace the twin (parallel) triode 6N7G tube with two single triode 6C5G tubes analogues. That would require duo adapters, and was never tested. Reading the above, a single 6C5G could actually be a better approach: half the gain. Does this make sense? Anyone has two of these tubes already to try it out? The pinouts of 6N7G and 6C5G seem to be identical .


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I had an Oppo Ha1 before I got the Elise. I liked the unit as a whole, but the sabre dac was its weak point. It really wasn't very good. Glad I got rid of it. The Elise and the Hegel absolutely kill it.


 
  
 Interesting, aqsw....it obviously wasn't as well-implemented as in my Audiolab, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...wonder if - nay _hope!_ - it was also better configured in the BDP105...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


connieflyer said:


> For fans of Loreena, like hypnos1 and Untilthen I give you one of my favorites................




  
 Very haunting - and lovely - piece, connie....thanks : "Parallel Dreams" is indeed yet another fabulous album. So far (and@arie123) my count is also "Book of Secrets"; "An Ancient Muse"; "Mask and the Mirror" and "The Visit". Have yet to hear "Elemental", but I love them all so far. At the moment, I suppose the one that's blown me away the most is Ancient Muse...but that could easily change with repeat listens, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  My favourite single track - again, _at present!_ - has to be "Dante's Prayer", from Book of Secrets...but are all those strange background noises in the early bars common to all versions?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...love it, nonetheless!


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> External Transformer is dead on 6.3 volts AC loaded and unloaded.


 
  
 Would have expected to see some difference there.
  


> But the Elise voltage @ 6.7 is certainly not a problem, of any concern.


 
  
 It isn't, and could be less with a load.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Would have expected to see some difference there.
> 
> It isn't, and could be less with a load.




Agree, 100% Oskari...my main purpose with measuring it at all, was to see if they converted AC to DC for heater current 






.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @mordy...am glad you and JV are loving your 6BL7s, and the thought of comparing a six-pack to my GECs is indeed very tempting, lol!
 However, I'm afraid this is "a step too far" for me personally...for several reasons :
  
 1. As I mentioned recently, I do not recognise in my own set-up _any_ of the so-called 'limitations'/veils associated with the 6AS7G (which would also be challenged by _*many*_ over at the 6AS7G thread, with far greater experience than I, lol!).
  
 2. I made a vow to myself (_and_ Lukasz!) that I would not be veering _too_ far off the original Elise path - the whole ethos was to move away from the more extreme modding that the Little Dots had reached. I fully intended to move onto the C3g driver, knowing that it would not be too drastic a mod - so long as the tube could in fact be got to work!...and work it did, with Glenn's help. Similarly with the ECC31, no drastic action was needed. I was a little reticent about the FDD20, needing the external 12V PS, but luckily this could be fairly easily - and _neatly_ - achieved with the laptop-style PS/charger. And its performance made this very worthwhile. And once again, the EL3N merely needs an adapter to work well. The requirements for 6x 6BL7 powers go beyond what I am personally prepared to entertain, alas.
  
 3. You know from days past, mordy, that I'm a "nice 'n neat" guy...I'll say no more, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 4.  The total cost involved does in fact mount up, and I feel I have reached the limit of my expenditure on tubes..._over_-reached, in fact!!
  
 And so I must pass on this one, mon ami...but I wish you all the best in your own endeavours....ENJOY!!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @Lord Raven, haven't heard much from you about your visit Down Under...hope it was all wonderful.
  
 And how are you getting on with your EL3Ns...still liking them?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> For fans of Loreena, like hypnos1 and Untilthen I give you one of my favorites................


 
 Thanks Connie. Here's one for you.


----------



## connieflyer

hypnos1 said:


> Interesting, aqsw....it obviously wasn't as well-implemented as in my Audiolab, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The lead in to Dante's Prayer is from the St. Petersburg Chamber Choir, Nikolai Korniev it is an excerp for Alleluia, Behold the Bridegroom.on Philips .  If you like the intro to Dante's check out the cd, the choir is amazing, the noises are from the church stage I would imagine.


----------



## connieflyer

untilthen said:


> Thanks Connie. Here's one for you.





 I wish I had a dollar for every time I listened to this piece, one of my favorites.  Thanks good to hear a new version.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> The lead in to Dante's Prayer is from the St. Petersburg Chamber Choir, Nikolai Korniev it is an excerp for Alleluia, Behold the Bridegroom.on Philips .  If you like the intro to Dante's check out the cd, the choir is amazing, the noises are from the church stage I would imagine.




  
 Aha, connie....that would explain a few things - I could have sworn I detected some "basso profondo" in there...a delectable register (especially when it's _Russian!_)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And as I love massed Russian voices, I surely have to give that CD a look....THANKS!
  
 Now it's time for a few tracks from "Elemental" before zzzzzzzzz


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @mordy...am glad you and JV are loving your 6BL7s, and the thought of comparing a six-pack to my GECs is indeed very tempting, lol!
> However, I'm afraid this is "a step too far" for me personally...for several reasons :
> 
> 1. As I mentioned recently, I do not recognise in my own set-up _any_ of the so-called 'limitations'/veils associated with the 6AS7G (which would also be challenged by _*many*_ over at the 6AS7G thread, with far greater experience than I, lol!).
> ...


 

 You really should try the dual 6BL7 adapters total of 6 amps with C3gs at .37 amp each that adds up to 6.74 amps no nasty power supply needed.
 The SQ of these tubes is much better then any 6AS7 voltage regulator tube being used for audio.
 I know I used the 6AS7 in my amps too that is why I started making a amp that can use 6BL7s. The difference in sound is mind blowing.


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359glenn,
  
 Thank you for the suggestion - said and done!
  




  
 The Elise is taking off with a pair of Siemens C3gS in the pilot seats powered by four Sylvania 6BL7GTA/GT engines. (C3g adapters courtesy of h1).
  
 First impression: Very powerful bass and extended treble. Completely agree with you about the superiority of the 6BL7 over the 6AS7 tubes.
  
 Before this I used the EL3N as drivers - did you have a chance to listen to the EL3N combination with the 6BL7 tubes?
  
 The sound is different, but not different in the detail presentation. The C3g seems more on the analytical side; the EL3N is warmer. Need more time to adjust my brain to this sound and figure out my impressions. The C3g certainly is a much cleaner installation than the EL3N with external power and large adapters.
  
 Do you think that 6 x 6BL7 will improve the SQ compared to 4 x 6BL7?


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi 2359glenn,
> 
> Thank you for the suggestion - said and done!
> 
> ...


 

 Personally I like the clean sound of the C3g.
  
 In my amps three 6BL7s sound better but it is a much different output circuit then the Elise has. 2 might be enough in the Elise


----------



## connieflyer

Any concensus on c3g manufacturer, have seen Siemens and Telefunken, and with the 4 6bl7's would I need an external power adapter, got a long wait for Elise ordered about 2/10/2016 no word on confirmation, so I thought I would get a few things ready.  Original thought was to use for about a month stock and then proceed, but the new reviews are intriguing.  Thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Any concensus on c3g manufacturer, have seen Siemens and Telefunken, and with the 4 6bl7's would I need an external power adapter, got a long wait for Elise ordered about 2/10/2016 no word on confirmation, so I thought I would get a few things ready.  Original thought was to use for about a month stock and then proceed, but the new reviews are intriguing.  Thanks




Hello CF...

All the C3g's are nice sounding drivers. They can be a bit pricey, and you need adapters for C3g use in Elise (another expense). 
The good news is that with dual 6BL7 and C3g as drivers, your okay with the default Elise heater current and do not need external heat.

But, if you run 6SN7 or ECC31 or 6N7G as drivers, you then do go over the recommended heater current by a small amount, and an external heater (power supply) is recommended. 

You can run the dual 6BL7's via the Elise, and use external heat for the driver tubes to ensure you won't overtax the internal Elise transformer. 

Pretty easy to do by using a pair of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847

Then you need a couple of more items that are not expensive, to complete your external driver heat setup.

Everything about dual 6BL7's is extremely positive sonically, and worth it, imo, to have to heat powers externally. 

It's too bad the Elise does not have a little bit more horsepower in the transformer department so that you could run the dual 6BL7's and your choice of drivers, without fear. 

BTW, I like 1940's 6SN7W by Sylvania, more than I do C3g, and would cost you about the same as C3g, maybe even less since they do not require adapters. 

Cheers, and luck to you as you await your wonderful Elise.





.


----------



## connieflyer

In that case I am going to wait and see what my 6sn7's will do.  I have alot of them, KR's Slyvania's Rca grey glass and what not. So, thanks for the advice and I think I will wait till the Elise arrives.  I think it was the idea of getting the tubes, would help the wait for the amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> In that case I am going to wait and see what my 6sn7's will do.  I have alot of them, KR's Slyvania's Rca grey glass and what not. So, thanks for the advice and I think I will wait till the Elise arrives.  I think it was the idea of getting the tubes, would help the wait for the amp.




Right-o all the 6SN7's you mentioned will pair very well with the dual 6BL7's as your power tubes.

You will be well pleased, I am certain. 

I waited 3 months to get my Elise


----------



## connieflyer

He told me 6-7 weeks, may have to have a little legaleze talk with him about that.


----------



## mordy

Hi connieflyer,
  
 The C3g was made by Siemens and Lorenz. Other brand names were Telefunken and Valvo. I have not been able to clarify if the last two were re-branded Lorenz or Siemens. The best samples were labeled with an S, usually hand written on the tube casing.
  
 All these C3g tubes are good and are rated for 10,000 hours of use.
  
 The main thing to know is that the glass envelope is very brittle, and the tubes break very easily. These tubes cannot be rolled (rocked back and forth) as other tubes when taking them out of the sockets. Use a small flat blade screw driver to gently wedge them out of the socket, going around the perimeter. To insert them, push gently straight down.
  

  
 This is a C3g tube without the aluminum casing - I think that the blue light comes from a Beryllium component.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Neat, Mordy. I don't remember ever seeing a "blue hue" to the glow in my C3gS tubes...


----------



## JazzVinyl

One for LR...

Grover Washington Jr's take on the Jazz Classic "Take Five":


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tuRS9iM9IZQ[/VIDEO]


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow that's amazing what our adapter seller Xuling has customized for us! I personally though would wait to go this route until one of you has tested the results first - *see if any possible upgrade in sound justifies* this major transformation or not.
  
 Oh and just in case you're interested to know, the owner of Feliks Audio just told me my order is 3 weeks out with 5 people ahead of me. So looks like they're currently churning out Elise's roughly every 4 days.
  
 And I'm sure you know what else that means... There's gotta be a lot of new 'undercover' Eliser's out there not basking in the glory with us - but don't you worry I'm sure this thread's prosecution will come up with some way to bring those suspects into the limelight


----------



## vince741

Just got a mail from Lukasz
  


> Hi Vincent, Quick update - your unit is now number 2 in production so should be soon.


 
  
 Oh yeeeees!


----------



## connieflyer

If you don't mind me asking,what was your invoice number, mine is 50 so that would give us an idea of wait times.


----------



## vince741

Invoice #37, paid January 13.


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359glenn,
  
 At this time I have had the opportunity to compare the C3gS and EL3N as drivers, using a quad Sylvania X plates 6BL7GTA/GT as power tubes in the Elise.
  
 The main difference between these two superlative drivers is in the sound stage and warmth; otherwise they are similar in their specially detailed presentation with extended bass and treble.
  
 C3gS: The sound stage is not as wide as the EL3N, but there are more spatial cues front and back and top and bottom. The sound is more neutral and analytical.
  
 EL3N: Very wide sound stage and a more warm sound making it more musical than the C3gS.
  
 It is a very close race, and what you prefer boils down to your musical taste. In this setting, both tubes bring out extra ordinary detail and spatial separation/air.
  




  




  
 I like the Atlas EL3N rocket....Taking the Elise to new heights with the quad BL tubes.....
  
 End game?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I like the Atlas EL3N rocket....Taking the Elise to new heights with the quad BL tubes.....
> End game?




Very nice, Mordy!

In my setup the preferred drivers are Sylvania 6SN7W from the 1940's.

But definitely multi 6BL7's are 'End Gamers'!

BTW, in a Glenn Amp, he sets up Loctal sockets for C3g drivers, and employes a different bias setting than what is optimal for 6SN7, so, in a Glenn amp, the C3g may well reign supreme 

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Wow that's amazing what our adapter seller Xuling has customized for us! I personally though would wait to go this route until one of you has tested the results first - *see if any possible upgrade in sound justifies* this major transformation or not.




Hello DL, 

Definitely *do not* buy this adapter unless you are prepared to *supply external heat* to the (6) 6BL7's which are power hungry beasts, and will devour *9 amps of current*, running, and as much as *10.8 amps* for a period, during start up.

No one has tried this one yet. But the theory is that *2x 6BL7's was a major upgrade in SQ from a single 6BL7*.

*Triple 6BL7's* should, therefore, provide a *1/2 as much gain in SQ*, going from *2x to 3x* as going from *1x to 2x* did.

I'm sure someone who can heat externally, will file a SQ report.

Cheers!


----------



## WB2016

Hi guys,

I was curious if anyone could show me their external heating set ups. Are there any that don't look like a prototype, with cheap looking wires everywhere. I am already trying to think of ways to adapt the adapters to look nice Was thinking to go with black acrylic and flame torching it to give it the glass surface look, plus some black spraypaint...

I could actually see the external heating not being that ugly if one used some nice cables, e.g. some cloth covered guitar cables, which cost a few Euros. But I am curious how you get clean DC current to the Elise. People mentioned a laptop heating source but could not find it. On Glenn's discussion there was was talk of a 12 amp external source. 

Maybe its my teutonic nature but I like the esthetics of the Elise and would like to actually have some non-enthusiast see the amp. 

I was also curious to ask if some of those custom Elises have a slightly stronger transformer so you could safely use quad 6bl7s?

Cheers,
WB


----------



## UntilThen

Elise is going to a local meet with me today. After exactly 4 months with Elise, I'll be able to check out other tube amps and headphones, including the Stax 009 and Blue Hawaii, HD800s, etc.
  
 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/93949-sydney-headphone-gtg-in-epping-on-27-february-2016-can-con/#entry1561616
  
 Hope to try out as many of these amps as possible.
  
_*Desktop Amps*_
Woo WA2
Schiit Valhalla 2
Cavalli Liquid Carbon
Project Ember 2
AudioGD Master 6
Violectric V200
Woo audio WA6SE
IFI complete gear line up
Woo audio WA6
Schiit magni 2 uber
Bottlehead crack w/speedball
Schiit Mjolnir
Lafigaro 339


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Elise is going to a local meet with me today. After exactly 4 months with Elise, I'll be able to check out other tube amps and headphones, including the Stax 009 and Blue Hawaii, HD800s, etc.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/93949-sydney-headphone-gtg-in-epping-on-27-february-2016-can-con/#entry1561616
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW, UT!!!...better take plenty of paracetamol with you, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...but what a day that'll be...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....ENJOY!....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WOW, UT!!!...better take plenty of paracetamol with you, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You've no idea how excited I'm to be spending a day there with lunch provided. Paracetamol? I'll be bringing what's left of the XO...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Paracetamol? I'll be bringing what's left of the XO... :bigsmile_face:




Lol. Careful there.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> Elise is going to a local meet with me today. After exactly 4 months with Elise, I'll be able to check out other tube amps and headphones, including the Stax 009 and Blue Hawaii, HD800s, etc.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/93949-sydney-headphone-gtg-in-epping-on-27-february-2016-can-con/#entry1561616
> 
> ...




I am glad I saw this. I would be interested to know your thoughts on the 339 and Valhalla 2, since I am familiar with those, and am curious how they compare with the Elise (given the limitations of meet conditions). I hope the owner of the 339 has good tubes for you to try.


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> I am glad I saw this. I would be interested to know your thoughts on the 339 and Valhalla 2, since I am familiar with those, and am curious how they compare with the Elise (given the limitations of meet conditions). I hope the owner of the 339 has good tubes for you to try.


 

 I'll do my best LJ. Meet conditions can be hard but at least I'll get some impressions. Let's hope it's not overly crowded. Epping Centre is a nice posh venue though.
  
 For 'portability' I'll be bringing Fiio X5, Elise and the T1.
  
 I want to check out the HD800 and HD800s too.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> You really should try the dual 6BL7 adapters total of 6 amps with C3gs at .37 amp each that adds up to 6.74 amps no nasty power supply needed.
> The SQ of these tubes is much better then any 6AS7 voltage regulator tube being used for audio.
> I know I used the 6AS7 in my amps too that is why I started making a amp that can use 6BL7s. The difference in sound is mind blowing.


 
  
 Hi Glenn.
  
 Thanks for your input re. this interesting tube, but if I were to go this route, I would only have even possibly considered the six-pack option, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....which - as for the reasons mentioned - I have no real desire to undertake.
  
 Despite JV and mordy's experiences, others have not been so enamoured by the results...as will always be the case with different equipment/ears/preferences, of course. It will indeed be very interesting to hear others' findings, who may wish to try the 6BL7.
  
 I do feel, however, I need to pose a couple of points/questions to you, if I may :
  
 You have stated that your own 6BL7-equipped amp is _specifically configured_ for these tubes as power/outputs - the Elise is specifically for the 6AS7G/6080. You would be the first to agree that no two different makers' amps are going to replicate the same results from the same tubes, and so there must always be an element of doubt. We need a good few more test results to ascertain just how well they will perform given Elise's different design, components etc.
  
 Related to this is the fact that there is a long history of 6AS7G choice in a wide range of amps...ie. good pedigree. I find it hard to understand why there wouldn't by now be a plethora of amps using the 6BL7???...doesn't really make sense, given the number of keen DIYers out there, let alone manufacturers - especially given their availability and cheap price!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Ah well, time will tell - perhaps this tube will indeed shine in Elise...for _some_, if not all. At least it may prove another viable option for folks willing to give it a try - and who are *absolutely sure* about safely handling the extra heater power requirements...a wide choice is most certainly an added bonus for us Elise lovers, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 CHEERS!
  
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi 2359glenn,
> 
> At this time I have had the opportunity to compare the C3gS and EL3N as drivers, using a quad Sylvania X plates 6BL7GTA/GT as power tubes in the Elise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry mordy...but _*no way*_ can your multi-adapted EL3Ns come anywhere near my _single_ extensions using pure silver and single-crystal copper wires, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...IMHO...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> You've no idea how excited I'm to be spending a day there with lunch provided. Paracetamol? I'll be bringing what's left of the XO...


 
  











...


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Agree, 100% Oskari...my main purpose with measuring it at all, was to see if they converted AC to DC for heater current




I thought I'd measure myself for curiosity. Well, no. My multimeter has started reading low on VAC. Why's that?

We are not getting about 200 volts here when the nominal is 230 and we are usually between 230 and 240 at this location.


Anyway, here's a song for the Friday night. mordy will be the only one to get it though.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksGlF3kShM8[/VIDEO]


----------



## hpamdr

vince741 said:


> Just got a mail from Lukasz
> 
> 
> Oh yeeeees!


 

 Bravo Vincent, encore une petite semaine....
 one more week to wait...


----------



## aqsw

My new dac is ready. Hes just burning it in for 150 hours, then doing final adjustments. Should have it by the end of next week.
I was hoping for a smaller footprint, but when I went dsd on the usb input, he says he had to go for a bigger enclosure. 
P.S. My daughter is in labour. Shoud have a grandson tonight.!


----------



## Audict123

aqsw said:


> My new dac is ready. Hes just burning it in for 150 hours, then doing final adjustments. Should have it by the end of next week.
> I was hoping for a smaller footprint, but when I went dsd on the usb input, he says he had to go for a bigger enclosure.
> P.S. My daughter is in labour. Shoud have a grandson tonight.!


 

 Wow, exiting times aqsw, and I don't mean the new DAC. Fingers crossed!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> My new dac is ready. Hes just burning it in for 150 hours, then doing final adjustments. Should have it by the end of next week.
> I was hoping for a smaller footprint, but when I went dsd on the usb input, he says he had to go for a bigger enclosure.
> P.S. My daughter is in labour. Shoud have a grandson tonight.!




Congrats times two, Grandpa, I mean....aqsw!!



.


----------



## aqsw

audict123 said:


> Wow, exiting times aqsw, and I don't mean the new DAC. Fingers crossed!




Thank guys,

His Mom and Dad are both professional musicians and educators. I am sure he will havd a great start musically.


----------



## aqsw

Hey guys,
Off topic.

My wife wanted a bluetooth speaker for the livingroom. I went overboard and bought her one called " the core by mass fidelity".

Yes, it is expensive and way overpowering for what she needed, but it is a fantastic unit. I believe it is at the top of the bluetooth speakers . It uses wave technology.
Google it. Quite interesting.

 She absolutely loves it, but I didn't tell her what I paid. If she knew she wouldn't like it that much.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Hey guys,
> Off topic.
> 
> My wife wanted a bluetooth speaker for the livingroom. I went overboard and bought her one called " the core by mass fidelity".
> ...




Looks nice!

I have one that I paid 1/6th that much for, and I am impressed with it. Use it when camping.


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Looks nice!
> 
> I have one that I paid 1/6th that much for, and I am impressed with it. Use it when camping.




http://unmonday.com/


----------



## connieflyer

vince741 said:


> Invoice #37, paid January 13.


 

 Thank you for getting back, that does make the waiting appear doable.  I invoice on the February 18, invoice 50 so that may not be too long.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> http://unmonday.com/




That one looks nice too.

Mine is the "Jam Heavy Metal"

http://www.amazon.com/HX-P920-Heavy-Wireless-Stereo-Speaker/dp/B00XLSS79Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456539192&sr=8-1&keywords=jam+heavy+metal


----------



## JazzVinyl

@Mordy

Do you have (4) 6BX7's to try?

In another board, folks say they like the 6BX7 even more than the 6BL7, and they like the 6BL7's very much. 

I have (6) 6BX7's inbound.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I love the Triad external 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer. It's the perfect accessory for Elise. 
The transformer iron core gets warm, having it out in the open air is the perfect place for it
to conduct its heat into the air. The Elise has never run cooler. Best $50.00 I ever spend on 
Miss Elise 





Cheers to all the Lucky Peeps...


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> I like the Atlas EL3N rocket....Taking the Elise to new heights with the quad BL tubes.....
> 
> End game?


 
 OMG that simplifies this whole hobby! The higher it is, the better it sounds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, your review of the C3G's sounds tempting. Any ideas on how much they sell for and where? It seems they've been depleted. Or better yet, a cheaper alternative.


jazzvinyl said:


> ...
> The good news is that with dual 6BL7 and C3g as drivers, your okay with the default Elise heater current and do not need external heat.
> 
> But, if you run 6SN7 or ECC31 or 6N7G as drivers, you then do go over the recommended heater current by a small amount, and an external heater (power supply) is recommended.
> ...





> ...


 
 Sorry you confused me there. I was under the impression you can run two sets of any mixture of 6SN7 and/or 6BL7 via two dual adapters in the back slots without the need for external power supply...? Or were you talking about the need for a P/S if these are in the front slots?


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Elise is going to a local meet with me today. After exactly 4 months with Elise, I'll be able to check out other tube amps and headphones, including the Stax 009 and Blue Hawaii, HD800s, etc.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/93949-sydney-headphone-gtg-in-epping-on-27-february-2016-can-con/#entry1561616
> 
> ...


 
 That's completely unreal UT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was totally gonna recommend you attend but it was too late to tell you, but now looks like you've already made it! It's such a great opportunity to try & compare hi-fi audio gear in person. Contrary to how a meet-up may seem, these actually can save you money by increasing your knowledge and man I'll tell ya it can be a humbling experience to see (well, hear) how much better other gear is compared to yours.
  
Anyway I think I speak for all of us when I say that we would love to hear your impressions of the Elise vs. other amps - and don't worry about offending us if something is much better / worse! Even brief impressions are cool. Or just share a link to your impressions.
  
 And oh my... I think you just might be the first person to compare the Elise to the Ember. I know a few people who would like to know about that one. My bet is the Elise will be the king except for the SR-009 electrostat setup.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm still here and I ain't going home.

Almost all of them from Head-Fi and a ifi vendor here too.

Listening to Violectric V281 now ...very good. 

Some didn't turn up but I've heard lots of very good stuff today. Life won't be the same again.


----------



## UntilThen

A gentleman listen on my Elise and told me he likes it. That it sounded good. I ask him what gear he has. He says Stax 009 and Blue Hawaii amp.... 

Tell you more later when I'll summarise my day in utopia.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Sorry you confused me there. I was under the impression you can run two sets of any mixture of 6SN7 and/or 6BL7 via two dual adapters in the back slots without the need for external power supply...? Or were you talking about the need for a P/S if these are in the front slots?




Original tube compliment for Elise is a pair of 6AS7 and a pair of 6SN7's

The 6AS7's draw 5 amps
The 6SN7's draw 1.2 amps
Total = 6.2 amps

Everyone ran the 6AS7's with 6N7 and or ECC31 which draw .9 amps per tube without external heat.
Total = 6.8 amps

So figure Elise tops out at 6.8 or 7 amps

(4) 6BL7 draws 6 amps...
So you can run c3g without external heat because they only draw .37 amps each

Change to 6sn7 and or ECC31 and your a little over the safe zone,

That is why I suggest you use the adapters to externally heat drivers when using 4x 6BL7's JUST TO STAY SAFE, no one will enjoy a burnt transformer in their Elise....'eh?



.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UntilThen said:
			
		

> .
> Tell you more later when I'll summarise my day in utopia.




We figure you will come home with one of every amp for sale...


----------



## DecentLevi

jazzvinyl said:


> Original tube compliment for Elise is a pair of 6AS7 and a pair of 6SN7's
> 
> The 6AS7's draw 5 amps
> The 6SN7's draw 1.2 amps
> ...


 
 So each 6SN7 is 0.6ah and 6BL7 is 1.5ah... that's interesting that some of you were able to mix & match those in the same dual adapter! 
 Also since the 6SN7 is less than half the amps as 6BL7, am I correct to assume that a 6SN7 / 6BL7 combo, -or- quad 6SN7 would mitigate the need for an external P/S?
  
 But then here's the paradox for somebody who still wants to experiment with both tubes and isn't sure to go with quad 6BL7:
 If you get the two dual 6BL7 / 6SN7 adapters without the external heat wire and then decide later that you want to go quad 6BL7... would it be possible / necessary to mod the adapters to work with external P/S, or would you have to replace the adapters? Or instead buy both dual adapters that have the wire from the start, but then also have to invest in the external P/S even though you're not sure which you will prefer... wow


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> So each 6SN7 is 0.6ah and 6BL7 is 1.5ah... that's interesting that some of you were able to mix & match those in the same dual adapter!
> Also since the 6SN7 is less than half the amps as 6BL7, am I correct to assume that a 6SN7 / 6BL7 combo, -or- quad 6SN7 would mitigate the need for an external P/S?
> 
> But then here's the paradox for somebody who still wants to experiment with both tubes and isn't sure to go with quad 6BL7:
> ...




Convert any internally heated tube or adapters to external heat with these (as stated previously):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847


----------



## Audict123

decentlevi said:


> Seriously though, your review of the C3G's sounds tempting. Any ideas on how much they sell for and where? It seems they've been depleted. Or better yet, a cheaper alternative.


 
  
 Elise invoice # 40 here... I was lucky to localize an obscured source of NOS/NIB Valvo C3G/s tubes - former stock from Deutsche Bundespost. This guy bought them 15 years ago - they were on the DB shelves as spares for some 25 years before that. Being Valvo's, the /S addition is printed on both the tubes and boxes, so you can be sure they are the higher rated 'Selected' variety. The boxes and tubes have unique (corresponding) numbers printed on them. Long story short: assured they are the real deal and NOS, I bought 4 initially, but these found their way to Untilthen and another HeadFi member. Subsequently I decided to buy all this guys Valvo C3G/s tubes. It is an impressive sight on my desk, but for lack of an Elise to put them in all I can say about their sonic qualities is that they are dead silent, no hum whatsoever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I'll put up some pairs for sale in the HeadFi for sale section soon, but other (future) Elise owners go first. I also welcome trading with other tubes that interest me, although my basket is well filled already. If you (or others) are interested, just PM me. I'm looking for 90 dollars a pair, excl shipping and paypal costs. That is just a bit more than the single c3g rft tube on ebay now and that one is not the higher rated /S type.  The only store I know that sells them is Jacmusic but once you look at his pricelist you will decide against buying there I'm sure


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> I thought I'd measure myself for curiosity. Well, no. My multimeter has started reading low on VAC. Why's that?
> 
> We are not getting about 200 volts here when the nominal is 230 and we are usually between 230 and 240 at this location.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hope your electricity supply isn't headed for a fall, lol...to be without Elise for more than a day even is _unthinkable!!_









...
  
 ps.  Perfect piece for a friday night wind down...


----------



## UntilThen

Well folks I had a great time at Can Con 6. Here's my short summary post #31 and the preceding pages have pictures of the meet, including Elise and me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sadly there's no La Figaro 339, Valhalla Mk2 or Ember. So sorry to @DecentLevi and @Liu Junyuan, I'm unable to do any comparisons. The owners of those amps didn't show up. The closest competitors to Elise at the meet were the Woo Audio WA2 and WA6se. They sounded good but Elise held up very well in this esteemed company at twice her price. There are certainly some really good sounding setups at the meet. See the link to my impression post. In fact, I thought Elise sounded better than the WA2 and WA6se. My opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It hit the sweet spot between a fast transient response while retaining the warm and lushness with just the right touch of bass slam. At this price I couldn't have ask for more unless I want to spend heaps more.
  
 It was a very congenial and quiet environment to listen to music. I was even able to do some quick A/B comparison with other setups that have expensive DACs against my humble Fiio X5 > Elise > T1. Suffice to say that I came away from the meet still feeling very happy with Elise sound and all Elise owners should know they have a very special, great value tube amp in Elise. 
  
 There are better setups for sure. The Stax 009, 007 and Senn HE60 with Blue Hawaii are both eyes and ears watering. 
  
 Lastly ... I want a HD800 now lol. Yes I love the original stock HD800 sound on a tube amp. I listen to it on all the amps there. WA2, WA6se, Elise, V281, VI Dac and the HD800 sounded lovely. I'm astonished now at the negative things said about this headphone because it's a perfect fit for my ears. Musical and there's the right touch to bass !!! I spend a lot of time with it at the meet. It's not just a few minutes impression. Is it better than the T1? They're quite different and I'll be most happy to have both.


----------



## vince741

Yeah the HD800 is quite something. The T1 never got a chance to tickle my fancy.
 e/ Which tubes did you bring with you at the meeting?


----------



## Audict123

> It was a very congenial and quiet environment to listen to music. I was even able to do some quick A/B comparison with other setups that have expensive DACs against my humble Fiio X5 > Elise > T1. Suffice to say that I came away from the meet still feeling very happy with Elise sound and all Elise owners should know they have a very special, great value tube amp in Elise.
> 
> There are better setups for sure. The Stax 009, 007 and Senn HE60 with Blue Hawaii are both eyes and ears watering.


 
  
 Glad you came out smiling UT!
 You mention the Senn HE60 with Blue Hawaii. I once had the original Senn HE60/HEV60 combo. It was incredibly detailed but did not allow for extended listening. Too little body, it just gave me no pleasure.I sold it to an American for a good price. He said he would pair it with better amps. Do I regret that now? A bit maybe ... But I used part of the money to get me the Figaro 332S + HD650 and that got a lot more use and put a smile on my face.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> I love the Triad external 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer. It's the perfect accessory for Elise.
> The transformer iron core gets warm, having it out in the open air is the perfect place for it
> to conduct its heat into the air. The Elise has never run cooler. Best $50.00 I ever spend on
> Miss Elise
> ...


 

 Hi JazzVinyl,
  
 That actually doesn't look that bad. The Thing that bothers me with the external heating and Adapters is the green of the Adapters that always somehow seems to scream cheap electronics and the exposed wire. The transformer on ist own actually Looks really goood with the Elise. Some black spraypaint on the Adapters and maybe some Cloth sleeves for the cables, and it will look really nice. Getting something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Cloth-Covered-Twisted-Electrical-Wire-Lamp-Cord-Antique-Fan-Pendant-/201519696062?hash=item2eeb8288be:g:Tq4AAOxyiOxR1rI3
  
 Would really make it look nice and very Retro. Will look into this as well as soon as the Elise Comes.
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## WB2016

decentlevi said:


> OMG that simplifies this whole hobby! The higher it is, the better it sounds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got mine at tube Depot.
  
https://tubedepot.com/products/siemens-c3g-pentode
  
 but just looked they are on back order. They had some 5 days ago.
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Convert any internally heated tube or adapters to external heat with these (as stated previously):
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847


 

  Thanks for the link. And yes they are black. Now to just get some differnet wires on those things. Do they open or are they glued shut?
  
 Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> I love the Triad external 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer. It's the perfect accessory for Elise.
> The transformer iron core gets warm, having it out in the open air is the perfect place for it
> to conduct its heat into the air. The Elise has never run cooler. Best $50.00 I ever spend on
> Miss Elise
> ...


 

 Hi,
 where did you get the transformer. Was looking for something similar and unable to find anything on their site nor ebay. What did you pay.
  
 Hopefully I will be shocked and start looking at updrading my DAC instead
  
 Thanks
  
 WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> Hi,
> where did you get the transformer. Was looking for something similar and unable to find anything on their site nor ebay. What did you pay.
> 
> Hopefully I will be shocked and start looking at updrading my DAC instead
> ...




Yes, I like your cloth covered wires, WB.

The transformer cost me about $50.00 delivered. Got it here:

http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/

Works superbly, I love it, as it has set me free of all external heat worries.

I have some terminal blocks coming today, that will further clean this rig up, a bit more.

The adapters are indeed glued shut, BTW.

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Yeah the HD800 is quite something. The T1 never got a chance to tickle my fancy.
> e/ Which tubes did you bring with you at the meeting?


 

 Hi Vince,
  
 I went to the meet with 2 suitcases. It seems everyone did that too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One suitcase for Elise, tubes, adapters and cables. The other for my T1 in it's aluminium case. It's like going to a convention. I brought along a selection of my favourite tubes including the lovely sounding EL3N.
  
 What you see in the Can Con 6 picture is the Raytheon 7N7 with Tung Sol 5998, an incredibly good sounding combination. 
  
 Happy to hear your Elise is in production. You can be assured that she sounds the best in the configuration that Henryk tuned it to be.
  
 Enjoy.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Well folks I had a great time at Can Con 6. Here's my short summary post #31 and the preceding pages have pictures of the meet, including Elise and me. :wink_face:
> 
> Sadly there's no La Figaro 339, Valhalla Mk2 or Ember. So sorry to @DecentLevi
> and @Liu Junyuan
> ...




Awesome UT, you've made a lot of friends and acquired various tubes  Your collection is growing Hehe


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, I like your cloth covered wires, WB.
> 
> The transformer cost me about $50.00 delivered. Got it here:
> 
> ...


 

 Well I am sure I can order some Adapters that are not glued or I will apply a high Quality crimp around them. Strange I thought you would be able to open them with a screwdriver. Good I asked.
  
 Thanks for the tranformer link.
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 I think that there are more Swedish speaking people on this forum, Suuup speaks Danish which is close enough, and sometimes Mr X appears...
  
  
 Anyhow, a song with the title: "Dance On My Grave" is too scary for me to listen to...


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 I do have three 6BX7 tubes. In my Little Dot days when we used a single dual triode as driver I felt that it sounded better than the 6BL7 tubes I tried.
  
 In the Elise I felt that using a single pair 6BL7 sounded better than a single pair 6BX7. Both tubes are very similar, but  the mu is 10 for the BX and 15 for the BL.
  
 Using a quad of the BL tubes sounds fantastic as power tubes in the Elise.
  
  
  
  
 Here is a night view of a BL tube:


----------



## mordy

HI DL,
  
 Since the C3g tubes were made in Germany, I went on the German Ebay site and found a seller that has 10 pairs for what looks like a reasonable price - Euro 25/pair. Shipping is Euro 12.50 to the US). Note that these are not the S version. I do have both, but the difference is very slight.
  
 I used Google Translate since this seller is from Italy:
  
  
  
 "Couple C3G pentode SIEMENS Germany
 military supply chain, I say used but they are brand new and unused, have some scratch on the black because no box, tested 100%
 They are part of my collection of valves
 10 pairs available for multiple orders
 giannonocollections@gmail.com"
  
 Here is the link:
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-X-C3g-Pentodo-SIMENS-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/272137882293?hash=item3f5cae8ab5:g:zjcAAOSwgQ9V6AHd
  
 If you don't like the corroded aluminum enclosures they can be removed. It seems to me though, after learning about Faraday Cages, that they have a function to protect from interference. However, those people who took off the enclosures did not report anything untoward.
  
 Good Luck!


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> Well folks I had a great time at Can Con 6. Here's my short summary post #31 and the preceding pages have pictures of the meet, including Elise and me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like you had a wonderful time UT......glad you enjoyed it.
  
 Yes, the HD800 is a superb can and they way that the price keeps dropping on them, it is quickly becoming one of the better TOTL headphones that you get the bang for the buck.


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> Well I am sure I can order some Adapters that are not glued or I will apply a high Quality crimp around them. Strange I thought you would be able to open them with a screwdriver. Good I asked.
> 
> Thanks for the tranformer link.
> 
> ...




Got my terminal strips and worked on my external heat rig:



Have a terminal strip fore and aft to handle connections. When I get the 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 adapter, it will have just one set of two wires to heat all (6) 6BL7's. 

Here is one of the terminal strips, this one handles 6.3 volts AC out to the tubes. Same around back handles incoming AC mains, has a switch and the ground connection. I can now switch off the external heat easier than I can switch off the Elise...







Cheers to all the LUCKY ones...


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> HI DL,
> 
> Since the C3g tubes were made in Germany, I went on the German Ebay site and found a seller that has 10 pairs for what looks like a reasonable price - Euro 25/pair. Shipping is Euro 12.50 to the US). Note that these are not the S version. I do have both, but the difference is very slight.
> 
> ...



Those are also listed on the international Ebay. My pair is from him, also with the scratched enclosure. Works without any problems. Can't recommend him enough, they're very great value.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> I do have three 6BX7 tubes. In my Little Dot days when we used a single dual triode as driver I felt that it sounded better than the 6BL7 tubes I tried.
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy...

Right-o on the 6BX7 sounding better but having 1/3 less gain. I plan to try those in the 3x adapter, ought to be interesting, indeed. 

And your not kidding about the quad of 6BL7 as powers in the Elise! I just had to run a pair of 6AS7 while I worked on my Transformer / Terminal blocks....when the work was done and the quad of 6BL7's went back in, WOW, the much deeper and tighter bass and the incredible dig out of mid and high freq details....really puts the smile on one's face!!!!

I love multiple 6BL7's as powers in this amp!!

Great stuff, indeed!!


Cheers.....




.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Sounds like you had a wonderful time UT......glad you enjoyed it.
> 
> Yes, the HD800 is a superb can and they way that the price keeps dropping on them, it is quickly becoming one of the better TOTL headphones that you get the bang for the buck.


 

 Indeed it was great fun rolling headphones for a change. You should try it at a meet if it's not too crowded. Surprisingly AKG K812 didn't impress me. A bit heavy on the bass for me. However I'm sure this will vary with different people.
  
 HD800 is indeed a bargain now and with a good tube amp, will sound just right and amazing. If I had to choose between the original and the S version, I'll take the original anytime and pocket the $1000 difference. The comfort of the HD800 is another big plus. The clamp is just right and the ear cups sits so comfortably covering your ears. It's light too despite the size. Oh well you know all this. You have been using it for a while.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> HD800 is indeed a bargain now and with a good tube amp, will sound just right and amazing. If I had to choose between the original and the S version,




The SENN 800 audition impression sounds good. 

Do wish the LaFigero had been available for a listen...maybe next year.


----------



## Suuup

@DecentLevi I'll be going to a meet in a couple of months, and there's a guy there that has an Ember. Asked if he could try my FDD20. I may be able to do a small comparison.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Got my terminal strips and worked on my external heat rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Cool JV,

just remembered back to those electronics and elementary physics courses, transformers transforms AC to AC no? So you went with AC and not DC to heat the tubes. I read that with highly twisted cables this will be pretty good, but clean DC is preferable. Are the DC alternatives too expensive, dirty? 
How would you even do that?

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

audict123 said:


> Elise invoice # 40 here... I was lucky to localize an obscured source of NOS/NIB Valvo C3G/s tubes - former stock from Deutsche Bundespost. This guy bought them 15 years ago - they were on the DB shelves as spares for some 25 years before that. Being Valvo's, the /S addition is printed on both the tubes and boxes, so you can be sure they are the higher rated 'Selected' variety. The boxes and tubes have unique (corresponding) numbers printed on them. Long story short: assured they are the real deal and NOS, I bought 4 initially, but these found their way to Untilthen and another HeadFi member. Subsequently I decided to buy all this guys Valvo C3G/s tubes. It is an impressive sight on my desk, but for lack of an Elise to put them in all I can say about their sonic qualities is that they are dead silent, no hum whatsoever
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi Arie,

did you hear anything from Feliks, Invoice 40 is close to mine and was curious if you heard anything yet. Shame I just ordered some C3Gs could have found some nice ones and saved on shipping.

Cheers,
WB


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> HI DL,
> 
> Since the C3g tubes were made in Germany, I went on the German Ebay site and found a seller that has 10 pairs for what looks like a reasonable price - Euro 25/pair. Shipping is Euro 12.50 to the US). Note that these are not the S version. I do have both, but the difference is very slight.
> 
> ...


 
 Mordy, thanks much for the tip. I should be able to remove most of the rust with my electrical cleaner spray, but what do you guys think about the condition - does it seem like these could really be NOS? It looks like they've gone through some heavy stuff before:


----------



## DecentLevi

suuup said:


> @DecentLevi I'll be going to a meet in a couple of months, and there's a guy there that has an Ember. Asked if he could try my FDD20. I may be able to do a small comparison.


 
 That would be interesting to hear, but no need for me, as I'll be doing the comparison when I get mine next month... not to mention trying it with several new secret tubes I've got up my sleeve, and several exotic headphones I have laying around


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Please take the time to read Suup's post above:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8355#post_12379473


----------



## JazzVinyl

WB2016 said:
			
		

> Cool JV,
> just remembered back to those electronics and elementary physics courses, transformers transforms AC to AC no? So you went with AC and not DC to heat the tubes. I read that with highly twisted cables this will be pretty good, but clean DC is preferable. Are the DC alternatives too expensive, dirty?
> How would you even do that?
> 
> ...




Hello WB,

My personal expirence is that the AC has been easier to deal with than the DC.

Like you - I thought using AC would require tightly twisted wires as we see in quality made amps (including the Elise). 

However, I found with the transformer that, as seen in the pics, the AC is dead quiet in heating the filaments, after you connect the secondary center tap to ground via a low value flame-proof resistor. No tight wire twisting was required. 

Had been using DC which was finicky about a ground and you could detect some noises that would come and go randomly, even when it was properly grounded.

There are a bunch of DC power supply examples in the thread, if you do a search.

Cheers...


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello WB,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks JV


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Anyhow, a song with the title: "Dance On My Grave" is too scary for me to listen to...


 
  
 I think that the message of the song is pacifistic…


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here's one for Sunday evening:

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2kPOvp5Pq9g[/VIDEO]


Hoping all are keeping your lamps trimmed and burning.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi folks.
  
 Given recent comments concerning the 6AS7G I feel duty bound to bolster its position as an extremely well-respected and regarded power tube in OTL amps, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I present as exhibit an amp pointed out to me recently by @pctazhp - one by the acknowledged hi-end folks at Atma-Sphere : the S30 MKIII ($3,300)... plus the M 60! They have been using the 6AS7G for a long while now, and the fact they are _still_ using it speaks volumes in my book...
  
                 The M-60 :

  
 The 'humble' S30 MKIII :

  
 And an interesting review of the S30 : http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/atmasphere_s30mkiii.htm
  
 Hence my unwavering belief in this tube and the reason behind my suggestion for its use to the Feliks-Audio guys, lol


----------



## UntilThen

H1, there is also the big brother, MA3. (per channel) 42 x 6AS7G output tube 12 x 6SN7 driver tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nice!

112.2 amps per channel!

The lights in the whole neighborhood, dims, when you switch on


----------



## UntilThen

There is another meet planned for Aug / Sept 2016 by the same organisers of the Can Con 6 I attended last Sat. 
  
@DecentLevi that's when I'll unleashed the 6xEL3Ns on Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope this time the La Figaro 339 will be there. This is one tube amp I want to hear.


----------



## vince741

Only six? I bet you'll find a way to play more at the time


----------



## JazzVinyl

http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/

The S-30 (in H1's post above):

*Output power*
*30 watts* per channel into 8 Ω load
*45 watts* per channel into 16 Ω load


For UT's picture above:

*Output power*
*500 watts* per channel, 2-16Ω load before clipping


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Only six? I bet you'll find a way to play more at the time


 

 6 is enough. Remember the Blue Hawaii runs with 'only' 4 x EL34. 
  
 Yes for those of you anxiously waiting 2 months on Elise, just remember there is a 8 months wait on the DNA Stratus and 3 years wait on the Blue Hawaii.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> 6 is enough. Remember the Blue Hawaii runs with 'only' 4 x EL34.
> 
> Yes for those of you anxiously waiting 2 months on Elise, just remember there is a 8 months wait on the DNA Stratus and 3 years wait on the Blue Hawaii.


 
 The EL3N has a power output of 9W, whereas the EL34 has a power output of 25W.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> The EL3N has a power output of 9W, whereas the EL34 has a power output of 25W.


 

 True and depends on what headphones you want to run it with. The EL34s are use in the Blue Hawaii which is electrostatic amp.
  
 There is ample drive with 6xEL3N on all 3 of my headphones. As a matter of fact, it's not the number of power tubes. 7N7 with a pair of 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G drives my 3 headphones to perfection, even the planar magnetic HE560.


----------



## JazzVinyl

RE: Blue Hawaii price:


----------



## Audict123

wb2016 said:


> Hi Arie,
> 
> did you hear anything from Feliks, Invoice 40 is close to mine and was curious if you heard anything yet. Shame I just ordered some C3Gs could have found some nice ones and saved on shipping.
> 
> ...


 
  
 On Feb 26, I got back that I was no 6 on the production order and that the wait would be a few weeks. I hope that means it will be March, but I have no idea how far the definition of  'a few' can be stretched


----------



## WB2016

audict123 said:


> On Feb 26, I got back that I was no 6 on the production order and that the wait would be a few weeks. I hope that means it will be March, but I have no idea how far the definition of  'a few' can be stretched



 


Thanks Arie,

just curious, will likely be a few weeks after your few weeks then

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

Hi Everyone, 

just got my shipment of EL3Ns from Peter at Acoustic Dimension. Really nice tubes in superb condition. The thing that struck me is the smell. Smells like the late 50s or sixties. There is that particular smell. These are very NOS and can only recommend them. Promt shipping, even if it took the carrier two days to finally ship it out of the shipping depot, but super quick processing, shipping out and packaging really is top notch. 

Shame he only has ELN3s that are of interest.

Take Care,
WB


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> just got my shipment of EL3Ns from Peter at Acoustic Dimension. Really nice tubes in superb condition. The thing that struck me is the smell. Smells like the late 50s or sixties. There is that particular smell. These are very NOS and can only recommend them. Promt shipping, even if it took the carrier two days to finally ship it out of the shipping depot, but super quick processing, shipping out and packaging really is top notch.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo, WB..._*top notch*_ indeed - all you need now is an amp to put them in, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Let's hope it will be _soon_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## mordy

I am told that if a tube goes bad in the Atmasphere you would not notice it......
  
 Blue Hawaii - only 4 tubes:
  
  





  
  
  
 The price is $5,600.00
  
 The Atma-sphere MA3 is in the $40,000 range/pair.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I am told that if a tube goes bad in the Atmasphere you would not notice it......
> 
> Blue Hawaii - only 4 tubes
> 
> The price is $5,600.00




Thats for the "base" model Blue Hawaii, they also offer an upgraded model for more than $7000.00

An amp for Lottery Winners


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> I am told that if a tube goes bad in the Atmasphere you would not notice it......
> 
> Blue Hawaii - only 4 tubes:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even more impressive "in the flesh", mordy...._deeelicious_, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:


> Even more impressive "in the flesh", mordy...._deeelicious_, lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Please stop posting centerfold amps like these, or upgraditis will hit me before I even received my Elise


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Even more impressive "in the flesh", mordy...._deeelicious_, lol :tongue_smile: :tongue_smile: :tongue_smile: ...




Says it's a Hybrid...

Looks like FET Transistors and Tubes.

Most Hybrids have tube input and SS output stage, this one says SS input and Tube output.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Please stop posting centerfold amps like these, or upgraditis will hit me before I even received my Elise


 
  
 Fear not, arie...Elise will deliver utmost satisfaction..._*guaranteed!!*_





...(I drool over Bentley limousines, but for the money?...my Volvo wins hands down!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 ps. Must add however...Elise is not as boring as my trusty Volvo!!


----------



## Audict123

lord raven said:


> The best Jazz sound through Mazda 6N7G and Chatham 6AS7G. However, I cannot go loud, there's distortion or clipping. Average volume listening is least fatiguing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


audict123 said:


> Some time ago the idea was raised to replace the twin (parallel) triode 6N7G tube with two single triode 6C5G tubes analogues. That would require duo adapters, and was never tested. Reading the above, a single 6C5G could actually be a better approach: half the gain. Does this make sense? Anyone has two of these tubes already to try it out? The pinouts of 6N7G and 6C5G seem to be identical .


 
  
 Even though I didn't hear the twin triode 6N7G yet, I still like to know if the single triode 6C5G would be usable alternative or not. Is there anyone knowledgeable enough willing to comment on that?


----------



## JazzVinyl

audict123 said:


> Even though I didn't hear the twin triode 6N7G yet, I still like to know if the single triode 6C5G would be usable alternative or not. Is there anyone knowledgeable enough willing to comment on that?




You would have to use (2) 6C5G's per 6SN7 socket, which of course, will require special adapters, already avail:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/191530248252




.


----------



## Audict123

Guess I'm just showing off my ignorance here... The EL3N and C3G are also single triodes (better: pentodes run as triodes) and that does work. But perhaps here the adapters are doing the corrections to allow the use of a single triode as well?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Even more impressive "in the flesh", mordy...._deeelicious_, lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hearing it is even more impressive especially with the Stax 009 and 007 and the Yiggy dac but as I say I went home still happy with the sound from Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> just got my shipment of EL3Ns from Peter at Acoustic Dimension. Really nice tubes in superb condition. The thing that struck me is the smell. Smells like the late 50s or sixties. There is that particular smell. These are very NOS and can only recommend them. Promt shipping, even if it took the carrier two days to finally ship it out of the shipping depot, but super quick processing, shipping out and packaging really is top notch.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats. Peter's price are still the cheapest and the tubes and boxes are brand new.


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, WB..._*top notch*_ indeed - all you need now is an amp to put them in, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah but the amp can be built the EL3Ns less so so better this way than having to track down some if Peter is out. 

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Congrats. Peter's price are still the cheapest and the tubes and boxes are brand new.



 


Yup very pleased. Wonder how he got that many of them in such fine condition. Well it helps being in Holland I guess.

Cheers 
WB


----------



## Suuup

audict123 said:


> Guess I'm just showing off my ignorance here... The EL3N and C3G are also single triodes (better: pentodes run as triodes) and that does work. But perhaps here the adapters are doing the corrections to allow the use of a single triode as well?


 
 Only one triode is needed per channel, so you would be correct. I believe it is possible to use just a single triode per socket in Elise. This is further evidenced by the guy (can't remember who it is now) who's running a single 6AS7G in Elise, and not two.


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats. Peter's price are still the cheapest and the tubes and boxes are brand new.
> ...


 

 I've 4 more coming, making it 10. My 6xEL3N has more than 200 hours now easily and sounding amazing with Gershwin and Friends on Tidal now.
  
 I remember Lukasz reaction when I showed him the photo of Elise with 6 EL3N. He goes WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Elise has been with me 4 months now and I've not tire of listening to music with a great selection of tubes (it's a moot point debating what tubes sounds best in Elise because I think there are a great selection tubes that sounds wonderful) and all genre of music. I think the T1 helps greatly here. Perfect combo. HD800 will be too.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> I've 4 more coming, making it 10. My 6xEL3N has more than 200 hours now easily and sounding amazing with Gershwin and Friends on Tidal now.
> 
> I remember Lukasz reaction when I showed him the photo of Elise with 6 EL3N. He goes WOW
> 
> ...



 


I can imagine that sight was not what they had invisioned when doing the visual design of the amp. Might be something they take into consideration when they finally build a balanced model.

Has anyone asked for a custom Elise say with a bigger transformer in it so far? Curious if anyone has and what the pros or cons are apart form price. Some of the quads or even now triple adapters would almost make sense to just opt for a bigger transformer and be future proof. Just like you with the purchases of the EL3Ns

The nice thing on the EL3Ns as with the whole EL series is that they last and they maintain their sweetspot for a long time as oposed to say a 300B that is optimal only for a few hundred hours...
They leave the EL series on in studios 24h and expected effective sweet spot at 10,000 hours. 

Cheers 
WB


----------



## mordy

Hi hypnos1,
  
 Got my driving license on a Volvo PV544. It had a stick shift - a long lever that came out of the floor like on a bus. And of course, it is very fitting that a tube roller drives a Volvo. Volvo is Latin for I roll_......_


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > I've 4 more coming, making it 10. My 6xEL3N has more than 200 hours now easily and sounding amazing with Gershwin and Friends on Tidal now.
> ...


 

 Believe me Henryk knows a lot more than we do. 
  
 Feliks Audio has 2 stereo tube amps using 2A3 tubes and those are substantial amps. It will be interesting to see what they do for Mk2 but it won't be till next year.
  
 I wasn't too concerned about balanced until I heard the Audio Gd Master 6 running the HD800s in balanced mode. Simply amazing clarity. However different amps have different implementations.


----------



## UntilThen

Lukasz told me in an earlier correspondence that it could be an Elise Mk2 or a completely new model above Elise.
  
 I'm hoping it's the latter because I would certainly like to see another ground breaking product from them.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Only one triode is needed per channel, so you would be correct. I believe it is possible to use just a single triode per socket in Elise. This is further evidenced by the guy (can't remember who it is now) who's running a single 6AS7G in Elise, and not two.




It was @hpamdr

Here is his post:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8010#post_12350556


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > I've 4 more coming, making it 10. My 6xEL3N has more than 200 hours now easily and sounding amazing with Gershwin and Friends on Tidal now.
> ...


 
  
 Funny you should say that, WB...'cos I was about to post my surprise at (yet another!) revisit to an ELO track I've used for assessment purposes for _years_ now, as I know practically every single note in it by now, lol - and blow me down if I didn't hear notes I've not noticed before..._once again!!_





.
  
 And so there are now only three variables that can explain this : burn-in of the EL3Ns; burn-in of their adapting wires, and (possibly!) the phenomenon I mentioned recently concerning the 'optimal' signal transfer of _prolonged_ pure metal-to-metal surface contacts. Given the degree of change I have noticed and reported on previously re. _this tube's burn-in_, your post has me veering more towards _this_ as explanation, lol...
  
 Which prompts me to state that it appears the EL3N needs _*very long*_ burn-in after all, to achieve its "sweet spot" - I am well over 200 hrs by now with mine, and last night's revelation has confirmed my suspicions of a still-improving sound from these tubes..._*amazing!*_
  
 ps. Yes indeed, mon ami, you were very wise to get those tubes from Peter in advance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


mordy said:


> Hi hypnos1,
> 
> Got my driving license on a Volvo PV544. It had a stick shift - a long lever that came out of the floor like on a bus. And of course, it is very fitting that a tube roller drives a Volvo. Volvo is Latin for I roll_......_


 
  
 So _that_ explains it, lol...I can blame the Volvo (and thus my better half can also, instead of _me_...PHEW!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 I now realise I was very insulting to my beloved car....did I say _boring_?...compared to the older models my S60 D5 is _almost_ sexy - and with her chipped to over 200bhp is no slouch either!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Lukasz told me in an earlier correspondence that it could be an Elise Mk2 or a completely new model above Elise.
> 
> I'm hoping it's the latter because I would certainly like to see another ground breaking product from them.


 
  
 Hey UT....now you've got me in the same state as @arie123, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I do not envy those guys' decision-making - I can hear the sqabbles in the meeting room already!!).


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Even though I didn't hear the twin triode 6N7G yet, I still like to know if the single triode 6C5G would be usable alternative or not. Is there anyone knowledgeable enough willing to comment on that?


 
  
 Hi arie123.
  
 As has been pointed out, hpamdr did adapt a single 6AS7G to feed both power sockets, using basically the same principle as in the C3g and EL3N adaptation - ie. grid 1 of the  tube's relevant triode feeding grid 1 (of triode#1) of the amp's socket, and its anode and cathode feeding a2 and K2 of socket's triode#2....make sense, lol?!...hope so!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 CHEERS!
  
 ps. Loreena's "Nights from the Alhambra" has just arrived...can't wait to see her in concert on the DVD...


----------



## pctazhp

Due to a bout with the flu and the fact that my dual EL3N adapters have not arrived, I've been silent recently. But I have loved the discussion of the Atma-Sphere amps. I had Ralph Karsten's original MA-1. Truly amazing, but obviously the company has evolved dramatically since then. They certainly kept me toasty warm during cold winter nights here on the High Sonoran Desert. Don't ask me about the summers ((((
  
 This is primarily a tube rolling thread and so I probably won't be posting much in the future. I'll report on my results with the quad EL3Ns but for now I'm happily using the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G combination, and can highly recommend it. For the foreseeable future, I don't plan on adding more tubes to my bulging tube drawer, unless I finally give in to buying a pair of the famous @hypnos1 GECs!!!
 And @UntilThen certainly hasn't helped my lingering obsession with the Senn HD800s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For those who are still waiting for your new Elise, I am confident you will be thrilled. I personally prefer the EL3Ns over any other driver tube I have tried, and suspect that the quad EL3N powers will become my standard for the power slots until I cave on the GECs. If not, the Chatham 6AS7Gs (or my TS 6520s) will do just fine. For those of you who plan to move on to other amps or are anxiously awaiting for Elise 2 or whatever the Feliks boys dream up, I hope you will keep us fully informed.
  
 There was a time in my life where I could not read about things like that without feeling there was a big hole in my life that had to be fed with the latest and greatest. I fully understand and respect the fun and fascination that can come with tube-rolling or equipment-rolling. I guess my only word of caution coming from an old geezer is to not let it become a drug. A drug addict will sacrifice just about anything for his drug, including financial and family obligations. And yet the drug never brings happiness - just an increasing need for more drugs. If your life and checkbook remain balanced, and this hobby brings you real satisfaction, then by all means go for it. Just keep us advised so those like me can live vicariously through your experiences)))
  
 If I'm not here much, I'll still be looking in every day, and happily listening to wonderful music thanks to all the great information and help I have received here.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> As has been pointed out, hpamdr did adapt a single 6AS7G to feed both power sockets, using basically the same principle as in the C3g and EL3N adaptation - ie. grid 1 of the  tube's relevant triode feeding grid 1 (of triode#1) of the amp's socket, and its anode and cathode feeding a2 and K2 of socket's triode#2....make sense, lol?!...hope so!! :bigsmile_face:




Hello H1 - do you know if the same is true for the Driver positions? That an adapter can be made to use one, instead of two driver tubes, in the Elise?

Appreciate your thoughts...


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Due to a bout with the flu and the fact that my dual EL3N adapters have not arrived, I've been silent recently. But I have loved the discussion of the Atma-Sphere amps. I had Ralph Karsten's original MA-1. Truly amazing, but obviously the company has evolved dramatically since then. They certainly kept me toasty warm during cold winter nights here on the High Sonoran Desert. Don't ask me about the summers ((((
> 
> This is primarily a tube rolling thread and so I probably won't be posting much in the future. I'll report on my results with the quad EL3Ns but for now I'm happily using the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G combination, and can highly recommend it. For the foreseeable future, I don't plan on adding more tubes to my bulging tube drawer, unless I finally give in to buying a pair of the famous @hypnos1
> GECs!!!
> ...




Excellent post, pctazhp!

Were you planning on auditioning the multiple 6BL7's at all?

Cheers!


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Excellent post, pctazhp!
> 
> Were you planning on auditioning the multiple 6BL7's at all?
> 
> Cheers!


 
 Thanks JV. I haven't ruled that out. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I remember you saying that for a 600 ohm headphone (like the T1), the triple 6BL7 adapters really should be used. So I guess if I do try the multiple 6BL7s, it would be with the triple adapters. For right now, I'm taking a break from anything new. I'm still not retired (just not in my nature) but I work mainly at home unless I go to court or meet clients at my office. I love listening to music while working at home, and my current setup is great for that.


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Hi arie123.
> 
> As has been pointed out, hpamdr did adapt a single 6AS7G to feed both power sockets, using basically the same principle as in the C3g and EL3N adaptation - ie. grid 1 of the  tube's relevant triode feeding grid 1 (of triode#1) of the amp's socket, and its anode and cathode feeding a2 and K2 of socket's triode#2....make sense, lol?!...hope so!!
> 
> ...


 

 In fact i'm using only Triode 1 pins 4,5,6 and heat 7,8 for 6L6, EL34 and 6M6G.. El34/6L6 are really clean and powerfull tubes and woks well with any cans.  6M6G is like an EL3N but it sound a bit more natural than EL3N for me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> In fact i'm using only Triode 1 pins 4,5,6 and heat 7,8 for 6L6, EL34 and 6M6G.. El34/6L6 are really clean and powerfull tubes and woks well with any cans.  6M6G is like an EL3N but it sound a bit more natural than EL3N for me.




Very nice, hpamdr!!

Appreciate the information, and I am still hoping to see a photo of this custom adapter 

Cheers!!


----------



## mordy

Hi hpamdr,
  
 Are you able to provide any pictures of your set up? Very interested in seeing how you do it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Thanks JV. I haven't ruled that out. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I remember you saying that for a 600 ohm headphone (like the T1), the triple 6BL7 adapters really should be used. So I guess if I do try the multiple 6BL7s, it would be with the triple adapters. For right now, I'm taking a break from anything new. I'm still not retired (just not in my nature) but I work mainly at home unless I go to court or meet clients at my office. I love listening to music while working at home, and my current setup is great for that.




Sounds good pctazhp!

As you said, being satisfied with your chosen setup is the best way to go 


Cheers, and Enjoy!



.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1 - do you know if the same is true for the Driver positions? That an adapter can be made to use one, instead of two driver tubes, in the Elise?
> 
> Appreciate your thoughts...


 
  
 I suppose one double triode driver could be split in such a way JV, but can't imagine why one would want to try this, given the Feliks guys decided on TWO drivers as they found it gave better results, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





hpamdr said:


> In fact i'm using only Triode 1 pins 4,5,6 and heat 7,8 for 6L6, EL34 and 6M6G.. El34/6L6 are really clean and powerfull tubes and woks well with any cans.  6M6G is like an EL3N but it sound a bit more natural than EL3N for me.


 
  
 Hi hpamdr....congrats on your adapter work...
  
 So presumably you're using 2 of these pentodes as powers, not drivers?
  
 Interesting re the 6M6G which = EL33 = Octal-based EL3N...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> I suppose one double triode driver could be split in such a way JV, but can't imagine why one would want to try this, given the Feliks guys decided on TWO drivers as they found it gave better results, lol!! :wink_face:




Hello H1 - 

I have a interest in it, because I have some classic 6SN7's, but have only one and not a pair.

Seems odd to me that you would have two triodes available in a tube, but use only one of the two?

Seems more logical that you feed the same signal to both triodes for twice the amplification?

Cheers...


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Hi hpamdr,
> 
> Are you able to provide any pictures of your set up? Very interested in seeing how you do it.


 

 I'm not picture oriented but will take a shot if i have time...


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Funny you should say that, WB...'cos I was about to post my surprise at (yet another!) revisit to an ELO track I've used for assessment purposes for _years_ now, as I know practically every single note in it by now, lol - and blow me down if I didn't hear notes I've not noticed before..._once again!!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



Hi H1, 

this comes from talks with Tim Paravicini about studio equipment, philosophy of audio and value in hifi. My friend the audio installer likes the 300Bs, but he almost never pays for them he burns them in for clients and swaps them later giving him a bit of time with the tubes for a few pounds paid for by the clients, well few for them. Yeah, he has a device for burning in tubes, then gets to listen to them for a while and he gets paid also to swap the "old" tubes out.... "Its a dirty job but someone has to do it".

The problem with a lot of tubes is that they do not remain consistent and are therefore not really suitable for studio work, where the system is kept on 24 hours for weeks months or even years. EL34, EL84, EL519 burn in is closer to 250-300 hours then the stay consistent for incredibly long. They also run a lot of them in a type of externally heated DC.

Tim "ignored the weak and vulnerable, inferior and obsolete direct-heated triodes (such as the 300B). He based his design on his favorite valve, the 6KG6/EL519, developing a new operating mode called Enhanced Triode Mode, or ETM for short.

This revolutionary new circuit cleverly tied the control grid (G1) to the cathode, removing the potential difference between the two, and fed the control signal into the screen grid (G2). This gave better, more linear results than directly heated triodes, with the added advantages of high anode power rating, good valve availability and maximum reliability."

http://www.allegrosound.com/EAR-Yoshino_869_2_AllegroSound.html

So H1 they might still get better and you should save a lot of money on tube replacement.

Cheers 
wb


----------



## hpamdr

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1 -
> 
> I have a interest in it, because I have some classic 6SN7's, but have only one and not a pair.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi JV,
 Technically, Elise can work with 4 triodes ! two on the driver stage and two on the power...
 You have some sonic advantage to use doule triode mounted in parallel in the driver section. But the same kind of adapter 1 did for output tube can be done for 6SN7..
 The schem is the folowing :
 Right adapter i use pin 4,5,6,7,8 to socket pin 4,5,6,7,8  Left adapter i use pin 4,5,6 to socket pin 1,2,3... i use plain coper 0.8mm wire with tubbing and twist heater wires.
 --- edited typo --- left adapter


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> Hi JV,
> Technically, Elise can work with 4 triodes ! two on the driver stage and two on the power...
> You have some sonic advantage to use doule triode mounted in parallel in the driver section. But the same kind of adapter 1 did for output tube can be done for 6SN7..
> 
> ...




Got it.

*Thank you*, hpamdr!!


----------



## Oskari

wb2016 said:


> ... He based his design on his favorite valve, the 6KG6/EL519 ... This gave better, more linear results than directly heated triodes, with the added advantages of high anode power rating, good valve availability ...




Not nearly as good now as it once was.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> And @UntilThen certainly hasn't helped my lingering obsession with the Senn HD800s


 
 Don't obsess over the HD800s. I'm not entirely convinced I like it better than my T1. I would probably have to live with it for a month to come to a conclusion. A lot of people prefer the T1 over the HD800 and vice versa. It's a personal preference. Both are very good headphones (again a lot of people will disagree) that's for sure but yeah stick with the T1 with Elise, you'll be more than happy. I am.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I now realise I was very insulting to my beloved car....did I say _boring_?




Boring? The PV is iconic.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> I now realise I was very insulting to my beloved car....did I say _boring_?






 Boring? The PV is iconic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Valvo or Volvo ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've Valvo incoming.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Valvo or Volvo ?    I've Valvo incoming.




Be careful. Easy to make a mistake there.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1 -
> 
> I have a interest in it, because I have some classic 6SN7's, but have only one and not a pair.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV.
  
 As hpamdr says, using _both_ triodes delivers certain advantages - which is why the Elise has the 2 drivers, with both triodes in each linked and therefore used...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

Quote : 





> So H1 they might still get better and you should save a lot of money on tube replacement.
> 
> Cheers
> WB


 
  
 I'm absolutely convinced they _will__ indeed_ get even better still, lol....and so hopefully should have a lifetime's supply with just 6 (7, including my non 'Red Series' tube!)


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV.
> 
> As hpamdr says, using _both_ triodes delivers certain advantages - which is why the Elise has the 2 drivers, with both triodes in each linked and therefore used...:bigsmile_face: ...




Understand. Using both sides certainly makes sense.


----------



## hypnos1

Well @arie123 and all other Loreena McKennitt fans, I have to say I'm simply blown away by the DVD (plus 2x CDs!) of her concert "Nights from the Alhambra"...such an incredible venue and even more amazing performance!
  
 Although most of the numbers are already on other CDs, to see her perform live - along with a host of top-class musicians - takes everything to whole new levels of experience...what I would have given to be there (had I known about her back then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Seldom have I heard performers able to match on stage what goes onto a studio recording - such professional musicianship from ALL concerned brings joy to my heart, lol. And the quality of the recording is equally magnificent - the 2-channel PCM sound option (on top of 5-1 surround) fed to Elise via my Audiolab's DAC is _*so*_ good I could cry. This whole DVD is one I shall treasure forever...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Boring? The PV is iconic.


 
  
 Ah yes O...should have qualified with _some_ of the later models, lol!


----------



## Audict123

jazzvinyl said:


> Understand. Using both sides certainly makes sense.


 
  
 It certainly does. More gain! But the funny thing is that I triggered this discussion after reading this post from  *Lord Raven* 



_The best Jazz sound through Mazda 6N7G and Chatham 6AS7G. However, I cannot go loud, there's distortion or clipping. Average volume listening is least fatiguing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in love with 6N7G sound for Jazz music. Mazda does not pair well with 5998 cause again, huge gain causes clipping in sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_
  
 My idea was: the 6N7G has two triodes in parallel in one tube (connected at the kathode end by the way, so 'inseparable' and not usable for stereo). If Lord Raven's problem is really too much gain having only one triode could be better. that could be achieved by not using some pins, or by using the single triode equivalent of the 6N7G, which is the 6C5G. One would expect a similar sonic signature from that (if the construction is the same) , just less gain
  
 BUT - and that could be a big but (one t only 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) : is too much gain really causing Lord Raven's problem? I can live without an answer, but hey, this thread is about tube rolling isn't it...


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> It certainly does. More gain! But the funny thing is that I triggered this discussion after reading this post from  *Lord Raven*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nope that's not the case with me. My Mazda 6N7G with Chatham 6AS7G or 5998 has no dissortion or clipping. Perfect even with planar magnetic HE560. 
  
 LR heard it too. He brought his Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G to my place to test. Those tubes have distortions on his setup but on mine it was working perfectly.


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> In fact i'm using only Triode 1 pins 4,5,6 and heat 7,8 for 6L6, EL34 and 6M6G.. El34/6L6 are really clean and powerfull tubes and woks well with any cans.  6M6G is like an EL3N but it sound a bit more natural than EL3N for me.


 
 Incredibly interesting! I'm going to try 6C33C (which are single triodes) in the Elise, and I figured if I didn't like the sound, EL34 would be next. Can you compare it to other tubes like 6AS7G, 5998, 6080?


----------



## JazzVinyl

LOL...


----------



## Audict123

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL...


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Got my terminal strips and worked on my external heat rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks JV


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Mrs Xu Ling has come out with yet another adapter for triple 6BL7 tubes:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-tube-converter-adapter-for-3-6BL7-instead-6AS7-6080-/201533519050?var=&hash=item2eec5574cam7QIJQoBJj_pyPJbIpmgyQg
  
  
 Meanwhile, using dual adapters and EL3N drivers, I have tried to find the best sounding 6BL7 tubes in my system, using the Elise as a preamp for speakers.
  
 So far I have tried Sylvania flat plate; X plate, RCA, GE and Tung Sol.
  
 Although some people feel that the older the tube, the better it might sound, I found the older parallel flat plate Sylvania disappointing. The X (cross) plate Sylvania sound very good.
  
 The RCA sound a little thin in the bass but excellent treble, the GE pretty good all around.
  
 The Tung Sol have the best sound in my system with a very satisfying fat bass and overall excellent sound.
  
 If I were to rank these tubes the order would be:
  
 Tung Sol
 Sylvania X plate
 GE
 RCA
 Sylvania Flat plate
  
 YMMV.....
  
 Wonder what would happen if I mixed 6BL7 of different brands?
  
 I also tried 2 BL + 2 6BX7 tubes. The BX tubes are very similar to the BL tubes, but with a mu of 10 instead of 15. I have two Philco/Sylvania BX tubes - the results were disappointing.
  
 Have fun!
  
 Truth is, I am perfectly satisfied with the Elise and EL3N+4x6BL7 tubes. But I was very happy with the Little Dot MKIII with the stock tubes 6AK5 and 6N6P...
  
 If good is good, isn't better better?
  
  
 PS: Oh no, the prices are creeping up on the 6BL7!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-6BL7GTA-6BL7GT-NATIONAL-NOS-Tube-Valvula-Lampe-TSF-Rohre-Valvola-/401080628238?hash=item5d6244b40e:g:~dYAAOSwzhVWqgxR
  
 $55.00/tube shipped.
  
 Don't worry, the same Sylvania can be yours for less than $10 each.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi,
> Mrs Xu Ling has come out with yet another adapter for triple 6BL7 tubes:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-tube-converter-adapter-for-3-6BL7-instead-6AS7-6080-/201533519050




Notice she also lets you select:
Rotate-able or fixed 
and 
External heat or Internal heat.

She has all the bases covered 
Meanwhile my custom 3x 6BL7 for Elise, has made it to San Francisco 




.


----------



## mordy

Can't figure out this picture taken by Google Street View. Anybody?
  




 Two pink Flamingos
 Green chair
 Man with horse head eating banana
 Cell phone
 Flowers on table
  
 ????


----------



## JazzVinyl

That's pretty weird, Mordy!!


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> In fact i'm using only Triode 1 pins 4,5,6 and heat 7,8 for 6L6, EL34 and 6M6G.. El34/6L6 are really clean and powerfull tubes and woks well with any cans.  6M6G is like an EL3N but it sound a bit more natural than EL3N for me.



 


I would be very interested to see how you are running the EL34 on the Elise. The EL34 are rated almost four times as powerful than the EL3Ns and have a very good reputation in the recording industry, being used continuously also with the EL84. How much actual power Wrms do you get to your headphones using thes and do you have a pic. Wonder if you could get into the range of some of the more hungry low impedence headphones.

Cheers,
WB


----------



## hpamdr

WB2016 said:
			
		

> I would be very interested to see how you are running the EL34 on the Elise. The EL34 are rated almost four times as powerful than the EL3Ns and have a very good reputation in the recording industry, being used continuously also with the EL84. How much actual power Wrms do you get to your headphones using thes and do you have a pic. Wonder if you could get into the range of some of the more hungry low impedence headphones.
> 
> Cheers,
> WB


 
 I made an adapter myself  an here you can have a pic with 6L6GC (same pinout as EL34) and 6N7GT.  (the 6L6G is a less powerfull than EL34 and it is already a lot for T1).

  
 The principle used for the adapter is :


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Can't figure out this picture taken by Google Street View. Anybody?
> Two pink Flamingos
> Green chair
> Man with horse head eating banana
> ...




Apparently, this is a new "viral thing" to wear the horse head mask when the Google Street view car, goes by:

http://www.bbc.com/news/10401345

:rolleyes:


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> I made an adapter myself  an here you can have a pic with 6L6GC (same pinout as EL34) and 6N7GT.  (the 6L6G is a less powerfull than EL34 and it is already a lot for T1).
> 
> 
> 
> The principle used for the adapter is :




Excellent work, hpamdr!

Thank you for the picture and for sharing the info.


----------



## Suuup




----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


>


 
  
*OMG*, Suuup....*RIP Elise!!*...


----------



## JazzVinyl

6C33C tube Spec sheet:
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/dcigna/tubes/sheets/misc/6c33c.txt


I see a lot of 20 watt speaker amps built with this tube. Many as 'Mono Blocks':


http://www.tubeguru.eu/poweramps/6c33c-se-mono/

http://www.dmitrynizh.com/ecc99-6c33c-se.htm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acuhorn-S1-The-Touch-of-Speed-Stereo-Amplifier-Tube-6C33C-SE-Triode-OTL-Hi-Tech-/321703739789


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> I made an adapter myself  an here you can have a pic with 6L6GC (same pinout as EL34) and 6N7GT.  (the 6L6G is a less powerfull than EL34 and it is already a lot for T1).
> 
> 
> The principle used for the adapter is :



 


Very cool, thanks for the info. 

I still am curious about the EL34, maybe it can be used to drive the hard to drive headphones, especially hifiman's, good EL34s have a very good reputation and are not that expensive. Also keep there sweetspot consistent for in excess of 10.000 hrs. You would need to do some external heating for the power draw I imagine.

How are you liking the sound of the 6L6s? I assume like the EL series they require over 200h to properly burn in.

Cheers 
WB


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:


> *OMG*, Suuup....*RIP Elise!!*...


 

 Coming from ECC88/6DJ8 preamp tubes, I thought the tubes of the Elise were big. These 6C33C are terrifying. Somehow the mammoth FDD20 adapters blend in well though!


----------



## Audict123

Here's a question for the techies...
  
 I'm still facinated about the single triode 6C5G analogues of the twin triode 6N7G. Probably just because I fancy ST shaped tubes, can't have enough of them ... The replacement results in half the gain of course (mu of 20 instead of 40) . Looking at the Mu of the power tubes often used with the Elise below, it could provide a means to level the total gain when using powers with relativey high Mu - like the 5998. If net gain is the result of the multiplication of the Mu's of the driver and power tubes , the combined Mu of the combination of 6C5G and 5998 would be close to that of a 6N7G with 6AS7G.
  
 5998 Mu = 5.4, Gm = 15500, Rplate = 350 ohms, Vplate max = 250 volts and Vplate max 5998A = 275V
 6AS7G Mu = 2, Gm = 7000, Rplate = 280 ohms)
 6080 Mu = 2, Gm = 6500-7000, Rplate = 280-300 ohms
  
 Could that be an advantage in certain cases?


----------



## 2359glenn

audict123 said:


> Here's a question for the techies...
> 
> I'm still facinated about the single triode 6C5G analogues of the twin triode 6N7G. Probably just because I fancy ST shaped tubes, can't have enough of them ... The replacement results in half the gain of course (mu of 20 instead of 40) . Looking at the Mu of the power tubes often used with the Elise below, it could provide a means to level the total gain when using powers with relativey high Mu - like the 5998. If net gain is the result of the multiplication of the Mu's of the driver and power tubes , the combined Mu of the combination of 6C5G and 5998 would be close to that of a 6N7G with 6AS7G.
> 
> ...


 

 The output circuit is a cathode follower and has a gain of 1 actually less so there is no gain on the output tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> The output circuit is a cathode follower and has a gain of 1 actually less so there is no gain on the output tube.




I take it in my reading that the Cathode Follower circuit provides "current" to drive loads, and also lowers the output impedance. Never has a gain of more than 1, and is very linear. 

The driver tube does the actual amplification of the signal, the amplified signal is taken from the cathode, which has a resistor attached to it (for bias). The value of this resistor depends on how much voltage is applied to the plate. The value of the bias resistor influences the impedance of the signal found at this stage of the amp.

The signal coming off the cathode of the driver tube is too weak and high in impedance to drive a pair of headphones, so the "Cathode Follower" is employed to strengthen the signal and lower the impedance.

Ideally, in an OTL amp, the impedance value of the signal coming off the cathode of the last tube in the circuit (your 'power' tube in Elise) is the 'ideal' impedance for a pair headphones. 

This is why OTL amps are generally more suited to higher impedance headphones (150~600 ohms) and less suited to low impedance cans. 



Think I have most of that right, please correct me, if not.


----------



## Audict123

Thanks for this free lecture gentlemen! It's really nice to understand a little what the tubes are doing in the Elise.


----------



## nojdrof

Received my Elise today. 


WOW!


----------



## nojdrof

WOW!


----------



## hpamdr

wb2016 said:


> Very cool, thanks for the info.
> 
> I still am curious about the EL34, maybe it can be used to drive the hard to drive headphones, especially hifiman's, good EL34s have a very good reputation and are not that expensive. Also keep there sweetspot consistent for in excess of 10.000 hrs. You would need to do some external heating for the power draw I imagine.
> 
> ...


 
 if you use only one EL34 by side, you do not need any external heating circuit. An EL34 only use 1.5A on 6.3V which is 1A less than a 6AS7G. Keep also in mind that you will not get full power as you only run in 140V in triode mode, EL34 usually run above 250v and even more on guitar amps and using beam tetrode mode.
 Original phillips/siemens or american NOS EL34 sound great.
 I like the sound of 6L6 for Blues, Jazz, trip-hop it is Bassy with a great soundstage it is not as clean as GEC6080. I should aslo give a look to double EL84 but need time to build adapters and get tubes.


----------



## hpamdr

nojdrof said:


> WOW!


 

 Welcome on board....
 keep in mind that tube need to be burned and Elise have at least 50H in more than 10 listening sessions to really start to shine. In two weeks you will have a beter idea of what she can do for your ears... and your face


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> WOW!




Sounds good. Glad you like it nojdrof. Been waiting a while to hear from you.


----------



## vince741

"We are pleased to inform that a parcel will be soon sent to You"

\o/


----------



## JazzVinyl

nojdrof said:


> WOW!




Congrats on Elise's arrival...!!

You are now a LUCKY one!!

What's your serial number (on the bottom of the amp)?


----------



## JazzVinyl

vince741 said:


> "We are pleased to inform that a parcel will be soon sent to You"
> 
> \o/




Excellent news


----------



## nojdrof

untilthen said:


> Sounds good. Glad you like it nojdrof. Been waiting a while to hear from you.




I only have a couple hour on it and it already blows away anything I've listened to. My HD700s really like this amp. The treble is smooth and the bass is unbelievable. The sound stage is much better and no hum. Very impressive amp! Thanks guys!


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> "We are pleased to inform that a parcel will be soon sent to You"
> 
> \o/


 

 Well Vince finally.  
  


nojdrof said:


> I only have a couple hour on it and it already blows away anything I've listened to. My HD700s really like this amp. The treble is smooth and the bass is unbelievable. The sound stage is much better and no hum. Very impressive amp! Thanks guys!


 
 Good to hear. Are you using the stock tubes? It's a good idea to start with stock tubes. Take your time. Enjoy it as you get more hours in.


----------



## hpamdr

nojdrof said:


> I only have a couple hour on it and it already blows away anything I've listened to. My HD700s really like this amp. The treble is smooth and the bass is unbelievable. The sound stage is much better and no hum. Very impressive amp! Thanks guys!


 
 You started the unbelievable Elise listening experience *nojdrof*, _*it is just a start *_


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> You started the unbelievable Elise listening experience *nojdrof*, _*it is just a start*_




Indeed @nojdorf, sound will get better and better with burn in.

Congrats and have fun!


----------



## mordy

Congrats to nojdrof and Vince741 on getting the Elise!
  
 In my personal experience it needs some 150 hours of burn in to shine, something that Lukasz  agreed with.


----------



## hypnos1

nojdrof said:


> I only have a couple hour on it and it already blows away anything I've listened to. My HD700s really like this amp. The treble is smooth and the bass is unbelievable. The sound stage is much better and no hum. Very impressive amp! Thanks guys!


 
  
 Great news nojdrof...really glad you too are obviously falling under Elise's spell - just how many more lovers does this greedy gal want, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And it certainly looks like she does wonders for the 700s, just as for the T1s....HE560s...HD800s....etc. etc.! ...this gal has _many_ charms, to be sure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. You are in for some _seriously_ happy listening in the days/weeks/months to come....ENJOY!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And it seems you too will be in similar enthrall very soon @vince741...more good news! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

nojdrof said:


> Ok guy's I'm new to the headphone thing and really like what I'm seeing regarding the Elise. I'm currently using an Integra DHC 40.1 (part of my home theater system) to power my sennheiser hd700s. I'm loving these headphones! But I want more  will the Elise make a big difference? I don't see a lot of comparisons to full size home theater components to headphone amps. I do like the sound of tubes from back in my guitar playing days.
> 
> Thanks


 

@nojdrof it wasn't that long ago you were asking this question. Guess you found it out for yourself now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's great to hear new owners impressions of Elise. After more than 4 months with Elise, I'm still loving it as much as day 1... even more now.
  
 Great to know that there's no hum in your Elise. Lukasz says that all Elise leaves the workshop hum free because it went through strict QC.


----------



## WB2016

nojdrof said:


> WOW!



 


Congrats what was your invoice number and when did it ship, just curious How are the chances of getting mine before Easter?

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> if you use only one EL34 by side, you do not need any external heating circuit. An EL34 only use 1.5A on 6.3V which is 1A less than a 6AS7G. Keep also in mind that you will not get full power as you only run in 140V in triode mode, EL34 usually run above 250v and even more on guitar amps and using beam tetrode mode.
> Original phillips/siemens or american NOS EL34 sound great.
> I like the sound of 6L6 for Blues, Jazz, trip-hop it is Bassy with a great soundstage it is not as clean as GEC6080. I should aslo give a look to double EL84 but need time to build adapters and get tubes.



 


Thanks, HPAMDR,

it would be really interesting to see how the Elise stacks up to some of the EL34 and EL84 amps out there, wonder how it would compare to the (in Europe/UK) common icon audio Stero 40 MKII or Stereo 25 MKII, which are about 2x to 3x as expensive though and also power amps. 

They all run 4xEL34 or EL84 or 2A3, but not sure how the circuitry is. 


Cheers
WB


----------



## hypnos1

PLUS                             
​                                                            
                                                   DVD                                                                                    EL3N + GEC CV2523 + Beyer T1                                  
  
                                                                                          =  BLISS!                                   
  
Well folks, after gorging myself on the above combination for a couple of days now, I can honestly say that this DVD has helped polarise all the Elise's virtues that I (and everyone else!) have been extolling for a long while now...nay, solidifying them in _stone_, lol!
  
Being able to follow all the (outstanding) musicians visually, while basking in glorious sound is a wonderful - and enlightening - experience. I can see why so many prefer this method of enjoying a live concert over a live concert! With this kind of magnificent recording/mixing, there is no danger of destruction due to poor venue acoustics - either complete flattening of the sound, or excessive homogenisation due to massive reverberation, etc....(so long as you have a decent HP system, of course! 





).
  
And this DVD has indeed confirmed Elise as being _far more_ than just _decent_...assisted no doubt by the masterful engineering of the 2-channel PCM option, in 24bit/48kHz res'n. The sound emanating from this amp is truly _astounding_. Its resolving ability is first class; instrument & voice positioning/separation - now with visual confirmation, of course - is uncannily precise...everything is just where it should be (closing then opening my eyes to find this to be the case fair made me smile from ear to ear); bass and treble extension are exemplified here, with no loss in the mids whatsoever - there is an immense richness throughout the frequency range along with meticulate delicacy and control, highlighted by the wide (and fascinating!) array of both conventional and more exotic instruments used by musicians of the highest calibre....no single element in the ensemble dominated whatsoever - testament to both the skills of the sound engineer _and_ the guys at Feliks-Audio who crafted Elise, lol!
  
And so to conclude, this has been the most uplifting listen I have enjoyed since receiving this mini-marvel of an amp - in fact, it is the first time I haven't been able to find a _single_ thing to call "could be better"...it doesn't get much better than this - in my book at least. This has truly confirmed to me that I do not need to chase any further down gibosi's "rabbit hole"..._*THANK HEAVENS!!....*_CHEERS EVERYONE...




  
ps. Did I forget supreme PRaT?...silly me! And divine emotional emanation?...how could I?!!!


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Somebody asked me to compare the RCA 6AS7 to the quad RCA 6BL7 as power tubes in the Elise. Since I have both sets I obliged. (Maybe he had in mind a level playing field...)
  
 The drivers are a pair of EL3N.
  
 RCA 6AS7: Pleasant sound, but a soft presentation with recessed bass and treble and distant sounding - not up front. The bass sounds hollow and the timbre is not spot on. Instrument separation and air around instruments not very distinct. The sounds reminds me of my modded Little Dot MKIII with 2.5A power tubes.
 Verdict: A little anemic and dull.
  
 Quartet RCA 6BL7: Much more refined, much better detail and instrument separation, tight, well controlled bass, much more dynamic, lively and engaging.
 Verdict: Sparkling, youthful vigor.
  
 Now, there are better sounding 6AS7 tubes and 6BL7 tubes. The next project will be comparing Tung Sol to Tung Sol - the 6AS7G Chatham and the 6BL7GTA Tung Sol.
  
 Is Chatham Tung Sol? Is Tung Sol 6BL7 GE? Stay tuned....
  
 More questions: If the quad 6BL7 is so great, how come it is not being used? Stay tuned for possible answers....


----------



## hpamdr

wb2016 said:


> hpamdr said:
> 
> 
> > if you use only one EL34 by side, you do not need any external heating circuit. An EL34 only use 1.5A on 6.3V which is 1A less than a 6AS7G. Keep also in mind that you will not get full power as you only run in 140V in triode mode, EL34 usually run above 250v and even more on guitar amps and using beam tetrode mode.
> ...


 

 The only headphone amplifier i know from icon audio is the HPA8 (650 BP) where the output tubes are 6SN7 it is already much less powerfull than 6AS7G/6080. About price you should keep in mind that Elise is very well positioned and if you want to get a better sounding amp it will cost much more.
 You should not really compare speaker amplifier with OTL headphone amplifier as the design is not the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Somebody asked me to compare the RCA 6AS7 to the quad RCA 6BL7 as power tubes in the Elise. Since I have both sets I obliged. (Maybe he had in mind a level playing field...)
> 
> ...


 
  


> Originally Posted b
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos said:
			
		

> This has truly confirmed to me that I do not need to chase any further down gibosi's "rabbit hole"..._*THANK HEAVENS!!....*_CHEERS EVERYONE...


 
 You honestly think this amp can do what gibosi's amp can do I think not. With a plain old cathode follower output.
 And gibosi has unlimited tube rolling possibility's. He is not limited to over priced GEC tubes to get it to sound good.


----------



## hpamdr

2359glenn said:


> You honestly think this amp can do what gibosi's amp can do I think not. With a plain old cathode follower output.
> And gibosi has unlimited tube rolling possibility's. He is not limited to over priced GEC tubes to get it to sound good.


 

 You cannot honestly compare Elise which is consumer amplifier with a fully customisable amplifer built on demand. Ken Glenn amplifier have a many tranformer, socket to get infinite tube rolling possibilities it is like a Tube rolling labs 
 The base price is not the same and you also need rectifier tube that can cost more than a pair of GEC 6AS7G.. and even add two pair of over priced GEC 6AS7G to make it sound better..


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> The only headphone amplifier i know from icon audio is the HPA8 (650 BP) where the output tubes are 6SN7 it is already much less powerfull than 6AS7G/6080. About price you should keep in mind that Elise is very well positioned and if you want to get a better sounding amp it will cost much more.
> You should not really compare speaker amplifier with OTL headphone amplifier as the design is not the same.



 


Thanks HPAMDR,

yeah the HPA8 is good and the most sold amp of theirs I know it and am curious how it sounds in comparison to the Elise. The Stereo 25MKII is also a headphone amp, and quite good at that, still a little intro and was designed as a means to get into tubes. I know the design will likely be quite different.

The Stereo MK40s have quite a nice sound and I might be looking into these for the HE-6 I can get inexpensively. Might also check out the Feliks PSE 2a3 but not sure if that would have enough power depending on how the Elise experience goes. Ideal would be more than 8W at 50Ohms.

Seems as if a little bit of money is coming my way, so a nice speaker tube amp might be the next purchase. 

All said and done I do very much like their 2a3s, EL34 and EL84 models soundwise, while not being excessively expensive and readily available (to audition) in Europe.

Cheers WB


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> You honestly think this amp can do what gibosi's amp can do I think not. With a plain old cathode follower output.
> And gibosi has unlimited tube rolling possibility's. He is not limited to over priced GEC tubes to get it to sound good.


 
  
 Oh dear....this is not at all worthy of you Glenn, and I hope you will apologise for this affront...gibosi will be the first to confirm that he has often jokingly referred to our "never ending" quest re. tube rolling as the "rabbit hole" we then fall into.
  
 I should have thought it was quite clear from my post that _this_ is what I was referring to..._not _any reference to his own amp.


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> You cannot honestly compare Elise which is consumer amplifier with a fully customisable amplifer built on demand. Ken Glenn amplifier have a many tranformer, socket to get infinite tube rolling possibilities it is like a Tube rolling labs
> The base price is not the same and you also need rectifier tube that can cost more than a pair of GEC 6AS7G.. and even add two pair of over priced GEC 6AS7G to make it sound better..



 


Hi,

I have always been curious on what the rough price was of a Glenn custom amp. I am reluctant to buy from the states, because they will add 30% import taxes, hassle, returns and shipping cost, etc. and I have not found a site with a breakdown on features and costs. They sure look interesting and well made but the lack of info stopped me and I wanted to have the best intro where the Elise fit my budget well. 

At some point, maybe when Elise builds their Elise MK2 balanced I would be in the market for something in another class (especially balanced) and use the Elise for the office, but that will likely take a year or two and then I will look into tube amps in the 1-3K€ category. For the 620€ including shipping it was hard to beat Also waiting 6-7 weeks is already a lot, a full custom job what is to be expected time wise (plus the time for overseas shipping???).

Cheers,
WB


----------



## pctazhp

2359glenn said:


> You honestly think this amp can do what gibosi's amp can do I think not. With a plain old cathode follower output.
> And gibosi has unlimited tube rolling possibility's. He is not limited to over priced GEC tubes to get it to sound good.


 
 Well, this is certainly enough to bring me out of hibernation !!! Just for the record, I want to say I personally find it highly inappropriate for you to post disparaging remarks about the Elise on this thread. I may not have a lot of experience with the current crop of high end headphones and headphone amps, but I will guess in my life I have heard far more high end audio systems (and even owned) than most people on HeadFi, including you.
  
 I know what sounds good and what doesn't. The Elise is a great accomplishment for its price and the opportunity it provides to those who want to stretch outside of the box to experiment with a wide range of tubes. For those, like me, who just want to find a high performing headphone amp at a reasonable price and are willing to invest a little time and money finding the tube combination that works for them, the Elise is ideal. Personally, I could care less what you think. But there are people here who are trying to decide what amp will suit their needs and wants. In my opinion, your comment above is not helpful to them.


----------



## UntilThen

Highly inappropriate is the right word. I find it extraordinary that Elise should be talk down in her own thread by a maker of another amp.


----------



## hpamdr

Do you already have a


wb2016 said:


> hpamdr said:
> 
> 
> > The only headphone amplifier i know from icon audio is the HPA8 (650 BP) where the output tubes are 6SN7 it is already much less powerfull than 6AS7G/6080. About price you should keep in mind that Elise is very well positioned and if you want to get a better sounding amp it will cost much more.
> ...


 
 Do you already have the HE-Adapter box ?
 The best would probably to have a dedicated output transformer matched for 48Ohm in parrallel to the regular 4,8 already installed... This need custom build or modification...
  
 El84 quad are nice sounding tube the power in generally less than 20W/8Ohm pc for more you need to go for EL34 and then KT88. (Leben CS300XS which is known to work very well with HE-6 is only rated at 2x15W)


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You honestly think this amp can do what gibosi's amp can do I think not. With a plain old cathode follower output.
> ...


 

 I apologies for this I thought you were bashing his amp.
 I do see the rabbit hole going on with the Elise and people taking any means to do it.
 I may have taken it to far with the tube rolling. No matter how many tubes that can be tried in the amp there is always another one that can be tried.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I apologies for this I thought you were bashing his amp.
> I do see the rabbit hole going on with the Elise and people taking any means to do it.
> I may have taken it to far with the tube rolling. No matter how many tubes that can be tried in the amp there is always another one that can be tried.


 
  
 Apology accepted, Glenn...this hobby of ours certainly does arouse rather stronger passions than one would ever expect...
  
 As mentioned, this can indeed be an endless "rabbit hole" in the search for the 'ultimate' tube - which of course is a futile quest in many respects, given that everyone's tastes are different. I'm glad to say that at last I can say with rather more certainty than ever before that I personally have found the combination that gives me all I could want. I hope others do also reach this hallowed (and liberating!) state, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

In my opinion Elise sounds more than great with the tubes endorsed by Feliks Audio in the manual. She does not need more. Anything more is certainly up to individuals to explore at their own risks.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I apologies for this I thought you were bashing his amp.
> ...


 

 I make the ultimate tube rolling amps and I  don't tube roll myself.
 Been using the same tubes for 10 years #26 preamp to #10 driver to 300B.


----------



## lugnut

Is their website down or do I have a problem ?


----------



## nykobing

lugnut said:


> Is their website down or do I have a problem ?


 
  
 The link on the first page of this thread is messed up - http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en


----------



## WB2016

nykobing said:


> The link on the first page of this thread is messed up - http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en



 


works fine for me.
Cheers
WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> A HEARTY WELCOME BACK to friends old and new.
> For the Feliks-Audio site  :  http://http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en
> For direct email contact with Lukasz at F-A  :  info@feliksaudio.pl




Hello H1,

Can you please fix the link to Feliks Audio on Page one?

Has double "http://"

Appreciate...




.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Quartet RCA 6BL7: Much more refined, much better detail and instrument separation, tight, well controlled bass, much more dynamic, lively and engaging.
> Verdict: Sparkling, youthful vigor.
> 
> More questions: If the quad 6BL7 is so great, how come it is not being used? Stay tuned for possible answers....




Hello Mordy...

I like the "youthful vigor" description 
Certainly enjoying my 6BL7 (and 6BX7 quad) as well.

Have not had a 5998 or 6AS7G or 6080 in for more than a couple of hours since the quad 6BL7's came available. They do seem remarkably better to me, than your average 6AS7G/5998/6080. Have not heard the mythical GEC 6AS7G/6080 so can't say how it compares to that, 'known to be stellar', tube.

I would guess that since the 6BL7 and 6BX7 are no longer manufactured new, that a new commercial amp maker would catch a lot of criticism in the marketplace for employing a tube that was deemed: "obsolete"? 

That's okay...more for me, at cheap prices....shhhhhh...don't tell anyone, they rock 

Custom 3x 6BL7 per side for Elise is flying under the radar. No tracking records of her, after leaving San Francisco two days ago. Am hoping for it soon.

Cheers to all the* LUCKY* ones.

===
Disclaimer: Remember, ALL Elise owners: the 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 adapter for Elise, requires the *amp owner to provide 9 amps of heater current, externally*.
===


----------



## JazzVinyl

Picture I took on a dog walk, earlier today...

Cheers to all the LUCKY ones


----------



## connieflyer

Beautiful shot, envy folks can be around that kind of scenery, had property in the Smoky Mountains Tennessee, until wife took ill and had to sell.
 Lucky dog, both of you!


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Beautiful shot, envy folks can be around that kind of scenery, had property in the Smoky Mountains Tennessee, until wife took ill and had to sell.
> Lucky dog, both of you!




Thanks CF, and thanks for the reminder, that if we have our health, we have it all.




.


----------



## Tertera

So far not many comment about pairing with HD800.
  
 Also not many comparison with other more 'widely available' desktop amp like WA2, WA 6, Sonnet, Ember, Crack,  ...
 No matter how good the amp said, referencing to itself, it is very difficult to imagine how the sounds is like, only when compared to other reference point then we get an idea,
 Like keep saying my car is very FAST!  Faster than what?


----------



## UntilThen

tertera said:


> So far not many comment about pairing with HD800.
> 
> Also not many comparison with other more 'widely available' desktop amp like WA2, WA 6, Sonnet, Ember, Crack,  ...
> No matter how good the amp said, referencing to itself, it is very difficult to imagine how the sounds is like, only when compared to other reference point then we get an idea,
> Like keep saying my car is very FAST!  Faster than what?


 

 Interesting that this is your first post and already you're making assumptions without asking. There maybe not much comparisons but here is one from a member who have both the Crack and Elise.
  
post #220


----------



## vince741

Guys, this is the Elise thread for better and worse.
People should be able to speak their mind without getting chased by pitchfork.

@Tertera: I won't be able to compare vs a top tubes amp, but I'll be able to give my thoughts vs the auralic Taurus, the bryston bha-1 and the liquid carbon (currently loaned to a friend).
My setup will be an audio gd ref5 and a hd800 with toxic cable black widow 22awg.


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> Guys, this is the Elise thread for better and worse.
> People should be able to speak their mind without getting chased by pitchfork.
> 
> @Tertera: I won't be able to compare vs a top tubes amp, but I'll be able to give my thoughts vs the auralic Taurus, the bryston bha-1 and the liquid carbon (currently loaned to a friend).
> My setup will be an audio gd ref5 and a hd800 with toxic cable black widow 22awg.


 

 It's clearly a troll. No one comes on with a first post with that kind of rudeness.


----------



## hypnos1

nykobing said:


> The link on the first page of this thread is messed up - http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello H1,
> 
> Can you please fix the link to Feliks Audio on Page one?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for pointing this out guys....something (or some_body!_) has corrupted all the links - even removing the extra http made no difference. So I'm redoing them all - the Feliks web link seems OK now, so hopefully the others will also be good...(but lunch first, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

tertera said:


> So far not many comment about pairing with HD800.
> 
> Also not many comparison with other more 'widely available' desktop amp like WA2, WA 6, Sonnet, Ember, Crack,  ...
> No matter how good the amp said, referencing to itself, it is very difficult to imagine how the sounds is like, only when compared to other reference point then we get an idea,
> Like keep saying my car is very FAST!  Faster than what?


 
  
 Hi Tertera.
  
 Unfortunately not many owners have the luxury of multiple amps, or the HD800...but hopefully more will come online soon. Many of the impressions/findings others have already posted are from people with a good deal of previous experience in hi-fi, and hopefully can actually give a reasonable idea of Elise's sonic qualities/signature.
  
 I'm sure even more relevant info will be forthcoming very soon indeed...


----------



## whirlwind

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You honestly think this amp can do what gibosi's amp can do I think not. With a plain old cathode follower output.
> ...


 
 Glenn just misunderstood this, I am sure.
  
 He would not come to your thread and just bash the Elise....he is one of the most helpful people on these forums when it comes to tube amps, adapters for them, tube specs ect....ect...
  
 He helps many people with many amps , regardless of the make of the amp.
  
 This is a great thread with a bunch of happy and enthusiastic owners that love to roll tubes...
  
 Enjoy your amps and tube rolling....and most of all....enjoy your music.


----------



## connieflyer

tertera  there are at least two people I know of that are waiting for Elise and have Ember and some other amps.  Need to have Elise in hand before I can compare,  if you bothered to look at when this thread was started maybe you would have seen how new this was.  But then most first timers can't be bothered starting at the first post and actually reading and understanding what is going on.


----------



## pctazhp

I recently had a memory flashback from the early 50’s when I was 7 or 8. My family was visiting a cattle rancher and it was my first experience with “high end” audio. The rancher had a record player and I think a Fisher receiver (no TV available out on the range in those days!!!). While his record collection was LP based it was before stereo (commercially available stereo LPs were not available until 1957). What embedded the experience in my memory was a chart the rancher showed me that had the names of all the major record producers of the day with the recommended settings for the tone controls on his receiver. I thought this was the ultimate in “high-tech” (a phrase that probably didn’t even exist back then).
  
 I have heard it said more than once that tube-rolling is a substitute for tone controls or equalizers. I am amazed at people who have the dedication and passion to change tubes or headphones or even amps to suit the particular recording they are listening to. I am simply much too lazy for that and bought my Elise with the idea of finding a single tube combination that would give me hour-after-hour of emotionally involving, non-fatiguing listening enjoyment. I knew that exploring different tube combinations would substantially increase the total price of the amp above Elise’s base price, but I decided that the total outlay would still be substantially below that of a two or three thousand dollar amp, with a much greater likelihood I would find what worked best for me.

 By way of my background (I know this part is a repeat of many of my previous posts), I was a passionate 2-channel audiophile for almost 40 years, having at one point in excess of $80,000 invested in equipment and a record collection of 2500 LPs, including many classic RCA shaded dog and Mercury Living Presence pressings. A significant life change in 2009 led me to sell everything and until the middle of last year depend primarily on mp3s and low-end earbuds or headphones for my listening. Then I discovered Tidal Hi Fi FLAC files and that started me on my current journey. I started with a pair of Senn HD598s and an Aune T1 MK 2 DAC/Amp. I moved to a Bravo tube amp and then a Little Dot IV SE and upgraded my phones to HD700s. Ultimately, I bought a Schiit BiFrost MultiBit DAC. Also along the line, I acquired a Schiit Valhala 2 amp.
  
 And then I discovered the Elise and that has brought me to where I am now – someone who listens for hours and hours, rediscovering a lifetime of musical enjoyment.

 I have tried a number of driver tubes in the Elise, including:

 Philips MiniWatt and RVC FDD20s
 Fivre 6N7G = ECC31 black plates . "with Horn" anno 1942
 Rapsco MR 6N7GT
 Siemans C3Gs
 RCA JAN 6N7 Canadian Marconi Company.
  
 And including the following power tubes:

 5998
 Tungsol 6520 and 7236
 GE 6AS7G
 Chatham 6AS7G
 Mullard 6080
 6BL7s

 These are in addition to Elise’s stock tubes. They all had their strengths and weakness, but they all sounded very good. The stock Elise is a very special headphone amp. But I continued to chase my elusive “end game”. Two significant developments occurred that gave me hope I could actually achieve that goal. And I have @hypnos1 and @UntilThen to thank for both developments. The first was upgrading to T1 headphones, and the second was discovery of the EL3Ns as driver tubes. Then following UT further down that path I tried adding a second pair of EL3Ns as power tubes. And then a couple of days ago my dual EL3N adapters arrived and now I have a very funny looking and conspicuous Elise sitting on my desktop supporting 6 of those marvelous red-stripped marvels. I have to laugh whenever I look at it. The Feliks boys are a first-class act in every sense and they designed a beautiful, visually understated amp, only to have us transform it into a creation that immediately captures the attention and incredulous curiosity of all visitors.
  
 So, FINALLY, to the point. How does 6 X EL3N sound? It sounds exactly like what I was hoping for when I started this amazing Elise journey. From bottom to top of the audible frequency range it is clean, coherent, detailed. No part of the frequency spectrum is emphasized or muted in comparison to the rest of the spectrum. Instruments and vocals are suspended in space in a realistic and convincing manner, with body and bloom that is both natural and emotionally involving. Bass is controlled, extended and blends perfectly into the midrange. Midrange is natural and detailed.
  
 I want to talk about the treble in a little more detail. In my experience, treble is the most challenging part of the spectrum for any audio system. Many systems produce wonderful, detailed and sparkling highs. In my current system, the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G combination (which I love in many respects) produces such wonderful, sparkling highs. But of all the speaker and headphone systems I have ever heard, the highs never seemed to sound to me like the highs I hear from live, vocal or acoustical performances. So often, no matter how good a system reproduces the highs they seem to call attention to themselves in a way live music doesn’t. 
  
 I’m not going to say that the 6 X EL3N combination completely solves that problem, but it comes very close. There are times when I feel I’m missing the “sparkle” of the Chatham power tubes, but the dual EL3N adapters are not all that easy to remove and feel a little delicate, so the Chathams are now gathering dust and I don’t give much thought to that.
  
 I hesitated posting at this point, because I know the pair of EL3Ns I’m using as drivers still need more burn-in. But I can say that I now have a system that I can listen to for hours without fatigue and which is always difficult for me to pull myself away from. And I appreciate the fact that I'm well under the maximum heater amp draw from Elise's transformer, don't have to use external power and have a very cool running amp.
  
 PS.  All of the above comments are pretty much equally applicable to both my T1 and HD700 phones.


----------



## hypnos1

Apologies for yet more on Loreena McKennitts live concert "Nights from the Alhambra"
 I reported on recently, but I thought this track might give some idea of what's on offer for those not familiar with this performer or this particular DVD.
  
 Numbers vary from the energetic - such as this one, "Caravanserai" - to beautiful laments such as "Bonny Portmore". Try to get the best out of this low-res offering, and then just imagine what it's like at _*3*_..Edit...NO...nearly *6* times the bitrate (2034 kbps!)...astounding, lol!
  
 ps. And if you want to hear what Elise can do with drums as well as the exotics here, go find track "Marco Polo"...er no - go find ALL the tracks, lol!!


----------



## TomNC

Excellent narrative, pct. I have to agree that trebles are harder to reproduce well than bass.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> These are in addition to Elise’s stock tubes. *They all had their strengths and weakness, but they all sounded very good. The stock Elise is a very special headphone amp.* But I continued to chase my elusive “end game”. Two significant developments occurred that gave me hope I could actually achieve that goal. And I have @hypnos1 and @UntilThen to thank for both developments. The first was upgrading to T1 headphones, and the second was discovery of the EL3Ns as driver tubes. Then following UT further down that path I tried adding a second pair of EL3Ns as power tubes. And then a couple of days ago my dual EL3N adapters arrived and now I have a very funny looking and conspicuous Elise sitting on my desktop supporting 6 of those marvelous red-stripped marvels. I have to laugh whenever I look at it. The Feliks boys are a first-class act in every sense and they designed a beautiful, visually understated amp, only to have us transform it into a creation that immediately captures the attention and incredulous curiosity of all visitors.
> 
> *So, FINALLY, to the point. How does 6 X EL3N sound?* *It sounds exactly like what I was hoping for when I started this amazing Elise journey.* From bottom to top of the audible frequency range it is clean, coherent, detailed. No part of the frequency spectrum is emphasized or muted in comparison to the rest of the spectrum. Instruments and vocals are suspended in space in a realistic and convincing manner, with body and bloom that is both natural and emotionally involving. Bass is controlled, extended and blends perfectly into the midrange. Midrange is natural and detailed.


 
 You're an excellent contributor to this thread pctazhp. Who would have known that with your exposure to great HiFi gear in the past, that Elise would now recapture some of that magic for a fraction of the cost. I couldn't agree more with the statement that Elise is a very special headphone amp. The recent visit to the Can Con 6 has just further confirmed that for me. Elise sound is up there and exceeds amps in sonic qualities that cost more than double her price and that includes Woo Audio Wa2 and Wa6se. I just love to hear new owners first impressions. If we compile that alone, it would be an interesting read. 
  
 Re the 6xEL3N .... yes they are special indeed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Apologies for yet more on Loreena McKennitts live concert "Nights from the Alhambra"
> I reported on recently, but I thought this track might give some idea of what's on offer for those not familiar with this performer or this particular DVD.
> 
> Numbers vary from the energetic - such as this one, "Caravanserai" - to beautiful laments such as "Bonny Portmore". Try to get the best out of this low-res offering, and then just imagine what it's like at _*3*_ times the bitrate...astounding, lol!
> ...




Unfortunately, the content is blocked in the USA due to copyright restrictions. Will see if it avail to be viewed elsewhere. 

Sounds like she has really captivated, you, H1.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I was a passionate 2-channel audiophile for almost 40 years, having at one point in excess of $80,000 invested in equipment and a record collection of 2500 LPs, including many classic RCA shaded dog and Mercury Living Presence pressings.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You're an excellent contributor to this thread pctazhp. Who would have known that with your exposure to great HiFi gear in the past, that Elise would now recapture some of that magic for a fraction of the cost. I couldn't agree more with the statement that Elise is a very special headphone amp. The recent visit to the Can Con 6 has just further confirmed that for me. Elise sound is up there and exceeds amps in sonic qualities that cost more than double her price and that includes Woo Audio Wa2 and Wa6se. I just love to hear new owners first impressions. If we compile that alone, it would be an interesting read.
> 
> Re the 6xEL3N .... yes they are special indeed.


 
 Thanks UT. My main goal was to share my experience with new Elise owners, soon-to-be owners and those thinking about it. In my opinion they are the most important people on this thread. I hope what I have shared about my experience will provide someone a benefit. And my main message is that truly world-class performance can be achieved with the Elise for a total cost of less than $1000.
  
 In just the few hours that have passed since my last post, a magical quality is emerging that I won't even try to describe. All that I wrote before remains true, but I feel I am entering into an audio reproduction experience that I have rarely experienced. Right now I'm stuck in a celestial trance with Eva Cassidy and not sure I'll ever return to earth )))


----------



## pctazhp

@JazzVinyl. Have you been reading the court files from my divorce???


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> @JazzVinyl. Have you been reading the court files from my divorce???




Hehe...I thought the cartoon fit the situation well 

I am divorced too, but fortunately my Ex was not interested in my music gear, took me to the cleaners for cold hard $$$ instead


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Unfortunately, the content is blocked in the USA due to copyright restrictions. Will see if it avail to be viewed elsewhere.
> 
> Sounds like she has really captivated, you, H1.


 
  
 So you guys are denied a pile of stuff on youtube?...that's a real shame - this copyright fiasco goes way too far sometimes IMHO. I know artists deserve a certain amount of protection for their work, but I should have thought that making available lower quality samples would be basically free advertising/promotion for sales of the "real deal" higher quality output...(then again, I suppose too many people these days are more than happy with poor quality sound, alas!)...
 But perhaps a VPN service (free even!) might be able to assist, lol?!
  
 Captivated indeed, JV...as a lover of traditional 'folk' plus 'fusion' (a la Clannad), Loreena's mix of West and East sound - as produced by her fabulous ensemble and magnificent recording quality - has me totally hooked, lol!...she also writes a good song!! I hope others manage to get a taste of her work, which may encourage further excursion into this sound, and which is simply the most perfect material for headphone listening - preferably via _*tubes!!!*_


----------



## aqsw

I think H1 has a crush on a redheaded Canadian gal!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Got the 3x 6BL7 per 6AS7 socket adapter.

It fit my Elise perfectly and works perfectly. 

Sounds great.



===
Just remember that the 9 amp current draw requires external heating...
===




.


----------



## TomNC

Truly extraordinary!


----------



## mordy

Been away from the computer for one day, and wow! So many new developments, life experiences and, shall we say, sparks flying.
  
 We have such a nice group of knowledgeable, dedicated and HELPFUL people. Let's keep it that way.
  
I am proposing a rule:
  
 If somebody says something that gets you upset, the underlying assumption should be that there is a misunderstanding, either by the other person or by you yourself. Instead of writing angry statements, send a PM to the person and ask them in a nice way to clarify what they meant. This, hopefully, would avoid confrontations and inflammatory statements that are out of place.
  
 Regarding newcomers to the thread who make statements about this and that - we had this situation on the Little Dot thread all the time. People who joined the thread started reading it from the beginning, but stopped after a few pages. We use to joke that people should read the blog backwards, starting with the most recent posts. On one level I can't blame somebody who does not want to read the 567 pages on this thread before he voices his opinion. (Personally, when I join a thread I read all the posts, but it can take me a couple of weeks!)
  
 So if people ask what has been asked a zillion times, we just have to answer gently and point them to the relevant posts.
  
 Just my 2c....


----------



## Tertera

untilthen said:


> Interesting that this is your first post and already you're making assumptions without asking. There maybe not much comparisons but here is one from a member who have both the Crack and Elise.
> 
> post #220


 
 Thanks for the link, I have read that.
  


vince741 said:


> Guys, this is the Elise thread for better and worse.
> People should be able to speak their mind without getting chased by pitchfork.
> 
> @Tertera: I won't be able to compare vs a top tubes amp, but I'll be able to give my thoughts vs the auralic Taurus, the bryston bha-1 and the liquid carbon (currently loaned to a friend).
> My setup will be an audio gd ref5 and a hd800 with toxic cable black widow 22awg.


 
 Thanks for the understanding Vince.  I am genuinely interested in getting Elise myself, the simplistic look is cool, color, small form factor, tube flexibility and all. 
 I keep reading hundreds and hundreds of pages but very difficult to find any useful comparison that I can use to understand the sound signature, better or worse is subjective and beside the point.
  
 Auralic Taurus can be a good baseline, I listen in one occasion using HE1000 and I think it sounds very good, smooth, wide and spacey come into mind, I haven't heard Bryston and LC though, but I can use Taurus as reference point.
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi Tertera.
> 
> Unfortunately not many owners have the luxury of multiple amps, or the HD800...but hopefully more will come online soon. Many of the impressions/findings others have already posted are from people with a good deal of previous experience in hi-fi, and hopefully can actually give a reasonable idea of Elise's sonic qualities/signature.
> 
> I'm sure even more relevant info will be forthcoming very soon indeed...


 
 Thanks hypnos1, I am not actually looking for comparison with top tier amps that I am not interested to buy, just comparison with its peer should be good enough.  Looking forward.
  


connieflyer said:


> tertera  there are at least two people I know of that are waiting for Elise and have Ember and some other amps.  Need to have Elise in hand before I can compare,  if you bothered to look at when this thread was started maybe you would have seen how new this was.  But then most first timers can't be bothered starting at the first post and actually reading and understanding what is going on.


 
 Thanks connieflyer, that sounds good, I will continue reading, hope you get your soon.  Interested in your comparison with Ember.


----------



## DecentLevi

tertera said:


> So far not many comment about pairing with HD800.
> 
> Also not many comparison with other more 'widely available' desktop amp like WA2, WA 6, Sonnet, Ember, Crack,  ...
> No matter how good the amp said, referencing to itself, it is very difficult to imagine how the sounds is like, only when compared to other reference point then we get an idea,
> Like keep saying my car is very FAST!  Faster than what?


 
 I personally found nothing wrong with his post at all - this is just about the same way I would look at it when first knowing of a new amp. I do say he was not trying to affront, but that often what we say doesn't come across on these forums as we actually meant. It's even happened to me a couple times - text has no intonations and body language, so a point could easily be taken wrong. I agree with Mordy's excellent post above, that it's good practice to always assume something is a misunderstanding and contact them about it rather than flaming them (unless something very black & white was said); otherwise you may be discouraging what might have been a good member of the community.
  
 Well I'm not much of a people person anyway, but that's my two cents. Welcome Tertera


----------



## DecentLevi

suuup said:


>


 
  
 Oh mamma!! Great Scott! I can only imagine the extravagant sound that just may come from those tubes with the Elise!!! These are 6C33C, I hear? Pardon me if I missed something - I've checked back in the thread but can't find it - are these technically compatible with the Elise? And what kind of connection / power do these need? Please do tell how it sounds if you get them working. Thanks


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Been away from the computer for one day, and wow! So many new developments, life experiences and, shall we say, sparks flying.
> 
> We have such a nice group of knowledgeable, dedicated and HELPFUL people. Let's keep it that way.
> 
> ...



Agreed entirely Mordy. There's a lot of drama in this thread, and a lot of it could be prevented. 





decentlevi said:


> Oh mamma!! Great Scott! I can only imagine the extravagant sound that just may come from those tubes with the Elise!!! These are 6C33C, I hear? Pardon me if I missed something - I've checked back in the thread but can't find it - are these technically compatible with the Elise? And what kind of connection / power do these need? Please do tell how it sounds if you get them working. Thanks



6C33C indeed. They're not compatible with Elise at all, so I'll have to do a bit of modding. I got a 240W power supply, but I already burned it out, so I'll have to get another one. 6C33C is a single triode, so you need 4 to get all 4 power triodes that Elise uses as stock. That's 180W of power just for heating. I'll start off with only 2 though, so 'only' 90W to begin with.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> *Agreed entirely Mordy. There's a lot of drama in this thread, and a lot of it could be prevented.*
> 6C33C indeed. They're not compatible with Elise at all, so I'll have to do a bit of modding. I got a 240W power supply, but I already burned it out, so I'll have to get another one. 6C33C is a single triode, so you need 4 to get all 4 power triodes that Elise uses as stock. That's 180W of power just for heating. I'll start off with only 2 though, so 'only' 90W to begin with.


 
  
 Hi Suuup...I hear you, my friend, but I have presided over this thread - and the original one - for a long while now and have had to get things back on track a good few times due to the odd firework or two lit, with inevitable consequences...I'm afraid mordy's sensible statement re. PMs being sent first before posting replies is then too late alas, once that firework has gone off lol!
 I suppose this is bound to happen occasionally when such strong feelings can be stirred by the passion that accompanies immense enthusiasm, and just as with lovers' tiffs, we can only hope that people move on _through_ such diversions from the peaceful path, and hopefully _learn_ and _grow_ from them. I doubt we can ever be completely free from these unfortunate 'blips', but I live in hope that yes..."a lot of it can be prevented"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 We do indeed have a great bunch of guys here, and I know things will continue to move forwards in a very positive manner - despite the occasional 'diversion' LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And I say CHEERS! to ALL!.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> 6C33C indeed. They're not compatible with Elise at all, so I'll have to do a bit of modding. I got a 240W power supply, but I already burned it out, so I'll have to get another one. 6C33C is a single triode, so you need 4 to get all 4 power triodes that Elise uses as stock. That's 180W of power just for heating. I'll start off with only 2 though, so 'only' 90W to begin with.




180 Watts?
amp = watt / volt

29.2 amps for the 2 pairs in parallel. (Almost six times the power consumption of a pair of 6AS7G)

90 Watts for one pair = 14.6 amps.

That's pretty heavy duty!


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I think H1 has a crush on a redheaded Canadian gal!


 
  
 On her _music_...certainly, aq....but I must confess to being in love with the gorgeous (female!) cellist - or is it in _lust_, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(being the faithless fan that I am, alas!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...which is compounded by my admission that a good deal of the magic is down to the amazing instrumental backing and superlative sound recording, the quality of which I cannot over-emphasise - although I would forgive those who might accuse me of _already_ having done so!).


----------



## mordy

Re the 6C33C tube: 12.6V and drawing 3.3A.
  
 4 x 3.3A = 13.2A. Please correct me if my math is wrong.
  
 It seems that you would need a 20A 12.6V transformer for these power tubes.
  
 Don't know if you could use JV's transformer of 20A at 6.3V and use a voltage regulator to up the voltage.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Re the 6C33C tube: 12.6V and drawing 3.3A.
> 
> 4 x 3.3A = 13.2A. Please correct me if my math is wrong.
> 
> ...




Think your math is correct for 2 pairs in 2x series. 

A transformer like mine for 250v mains should be avail, should also be avail with a 12.6 volt secondary. 
Think Suuup indicated one of the problems for him was the added shipping cost and extra cost, due to VAT that gets added when shipped to Denmark?





.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys.........*A RESPECTFUL REQUEST*...
  
        I have been reflecting on Suuup's mention of the 'drama' that has indeed occurred from time to time on this thread, and realise that most is due to unconventional tube rolling, especially when additional external heater power supplies are needed.
I have in fact personally received several (negative) comments on this subject and believe we are engendering some rather derogatory statements/views from others in our hobby.
Given we have now strayed well beyond stock tube configuration, for the sake of those (old and new) who are unfamiliar/not confident with such PS modification - and out of due respect to Feliks-Audio -  I feel compelled to ask that such tube rolling requiring said mods be taken either to the existing rolling guide : http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998
or another one started if preferred. I believe this would be in the best interests of all concerned, and hope this suggestion is seriously considered....and taken in a positive vein. 
I hope I do not cause any offence at my coming to this - what I regard as sensible - decision.
  
 Regards,
  
 Colin


----------



## mordy

Back at the hard work of evaluating tubes. As I mentioned, I wanted to compare 4 x Tung Sol BL tubes to a pair of the Chatham/Tung Sol 6AS7 as power tubes in the Elise.
  
 I thought that I had four Tung Sol 6BL7 tubes. But.....
  
 Take a look at these two TS tubes:
  
  




  
 Both tubes feature almost identical construction. Let's look at the left one from a different angle:
  




  
 Do you recognize the sand blasted letters and the dots underneath? It's a GE tube. Turns out, I only have two Tung Sol tubes, but they look almost identical to the GE tubes.
  
 I am a little confused. Usually the EIA three digit number is a give-away to who the manufacturer is, but here is a Tung Sol labeled tube made by GE, without any credit to the manufacturer. (TS=322; GE=188)
  
 Maybe all the Tung Sol 6BL7 are made by GE? In my system, the Tung Sols sounded the best. Now I tried 4 BL GE.
  
 I have GE tubes from the 50's and 60's. The tubes from the 50's with rectangular getters sound the best to me (the 60's tubes have circular getters and did not sound as good). All the tubes in this comparison are X plates. I have some early 50's flat parallel plates as well, but not four GE.
  
 It could be that all Tung Sol X plate 6BL7 tubes are re-labeled GE tubes.
  
 The GE 50's tubes sound the same as my TS tubes.
  
 When I compare them to the Chathams I am going to try to describe the sound in detail. But the GE/TS  sound really good with the EL3N drivers.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.........*A RESPECTFUL REQUEST*...
> 
> I have been reflecting on Suuup's mention of the 'drama' that has indeed occurred from time to time on this thread, and realise that most is due to unconventional tube rolling, especially when additional external heater power supplies are needed.
> I have in fact personally received several (negative) comments on this subject and believe we are engendering some rather derogatory statements/views from others in our hobby.
> ...


 
 Hey Colin,
  
 I don't believe this is the right way to go about it. So far, the drama that has been caused has been due to a misunderstanding. I don't believe 'external heating' is the root problem here. If we all followed Mordy's most excellent rule, and always assumed a problem was due to a misunderstanding, then we'd have far less drama - if anything, even. 
  
 I know for a fact that a lot of people look down on external heating. I don't have a problem with it personally though. I can understand the belief that one should follow the 'vision' of the creator and not stray too far away from it, but I do not hold it myself. I see external heating as a way to *potentially* increase the maximum potential of our amps. 
  
 If we were to instate this rule, a lot of people - myself included - would be excluded from this group. While I do still want to explore the universe of 6SN7 and 6AS7G, I will be going another route first, i.e. explore other tubes. As such, I will not have much to post about here for quite a while. 
  
 Another question becomes: Where do you draw the line? Is it at external heating? Or is triode-strapped pentodes too far away from the 'original vision' also? How about external heating with the intention of offloading the internal transformer to increase the lifespan of the Elise?
  
 As such, I believe such a rule would do more harm than good, and (maybe) spark even more drama. 
  
 Another problem would be splitting the already fractured Elise community. To the new people that don't know, we had a big fall out about 4 months ago. I will not go into detail, but suffice to say we've had a good bit of drama. 
  
 I believe you have no bad intention here Colin. I just don't think it's the right way to go. I would suggest we think this one over again. 
  
  
 My own proposal would be follow Mordy's rule. I truly believe that no more drama will come, if we all behave like rational people and follow the rule. No one wants to offend other people, so if it were to happen, surely it would be due to a misunderstanding. 
  
 Cheers,
 /Mathias


----------



## pctazhp

For what it's worth (not much, I know), I do support H1's suggestion. This thread was very valuable to me when I was deciding whether to buy the Elise and then what tubes to use. If I were coming in fresh now I'm not sure I would be ordering an Elise. The thread has gone beyond discussions of the merits of the Elise, advice on reasonable tube rolling alternatives and headphones that mate well with the amp. I think this is the kind of information generally discussed on tube amp threads.
  
 Had I seen the discussion on massive external transformers and very exotic tubes, I'm afraid I might have incorrectly concluded that there was something fundamentally lacking in the Elise. I don't think most amp thread discuss external modifications to the extent we have gotten to here.
  
 I don't see how an alternative thread would divide the community. It simply would allow people to continue to post here experience and knowledge helpful for normal tube rolling and for those who have just bought the Elise or are thinking about it.


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> For what it's worth (not much, I know), I do support H1's suggestion. This thread was very valuable to me when I was deciding whether to buy the Elise and then what tubes to use. If I were coming in fresh now I'm not sure I would be ordering an Elise. The thread has gone beyond discussions of the merits of the Elise, advice on reasonable tube rolling alternatives and headphones that mate well with the amp. I think this is the kind of information generally discussed on tube amp threads.
> 
> Had I seen the discussion on massive external transformers and very exotic tubes, I'm afraid I might have incorrectly concluded that there was something fundamentally lacking in the Elise. I don't think most amp thread discuss external modifications to the extent we have gotten to here.
> 
> I don't see how an alternative thread would divide the community. It simply would allow people to continue to post here experience and knowledge helpful for normal tube rolling and for those who have just bought the Elise or are thinking about it.


 
 I'm sorry if the current discussion is deterring people form buying the Elise. With that said, this is not a sales thread. This is a thread for discussing everything related to Elise. So far, we've been very large in what we've allowed. A lot of off topic have been discussed. Certainly stuff much further removed from Elise than external heating. If discussion about external heating is banned, we'll have to be much more strict. Quite a lot of discussion will have to be removed. This will include stuff like discussing good songs / music, personal stories like LR's visit to Australia, and much much more. This is all something I love having here, so I would be sad to see it go, just to 'try' to 'remove' some drama.


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.........*A RESPECTFUL REQUEST*...
> 
> I have been reflecting on Suuup's mention of the 'drama' that has indeed occurred from time to time on this thread, and realise that most is due to unconventional tube rolling, especially when additional external heater power supplies are needed.
> I have in fact personally received several (negative) comments on this subject and believe we are engendering some rather derogatory statements/views from others in our hobby.
> ...


 
Yes !
  


pctazhp said:


> For what it's worth (not much, I know), I do support H1's suggestion. This thread was very valuable to me when I was deciding whether to buy the Elise and then what tubes to use. If I were coming in fresh now I'm not sure I would be ordering an Elise. The thread has gone beyond discussions of the merits of the Elise, advice on reasonable tube rolling alternatives and headphones that mate well with the amp. I think this is the kind of information generally discussed on tube amp threads.
> 
> Had I seen the discussion on massive external transformers and very exotic tubes, I'm afraid I might have incorrectly concluded that there was something fundamentally lacking in the Elise. I don't think most amp thread discuss external modifications to the extent we have gotten to here.
> 
> I don't see how an alternative thread would divide the community. It simply would allow people to continue to post here experience and knowledge helpful for normal tube rolling and for those who have just bought the Elise or are thinking about it.


 

 This is a very good analysis ! Even if most amp have some mod suggestion most of the time a dedicated thread is made to discuss about adapter and sometime in DIY forum you have complete modding thread talking about caps, transformer, ....

 If we all are so proud about being part of the club of Elise owner we should take into consideration that some user may want to use it without tube adapter. Every interested headfier who stroll on this thread should get info on Elise headphone pairing and amp comparison and not get the impression that the Elise journey will start with buying exotic tubes, tube adapter, and do some DIY...
  
 Nothing should be banned but just a bit separated from the main thread..


----------



## mordy

Hi hpamdr,
  
 Please tell me if the people who are using EL3N, C3g and GEC A1834 and 6L6GC tubes are using exotic tubes or regular, run of the mill OEM tubes?
  
 It seems to me that the problem is that people are afraid of the external transformer. I can understand that. In my Little Dot days I got a 155V electric shock from touching some exposed wires by mistake. Twice.
  
 Seriously, all the main contributors on this forum are using unusual exotic tubes. What's wrong with using them, and writing about it, especially since it brings great joy to the listening?
  
 At the same time, it is stated over and over again, that the Elise sounds very good with stock tubes. Nobody should feel pressured that the factory original is unworthy. Especially since people tend to start reading a thread from the beginning and not the end lol........
  
 To me it would be a pity to cut off the pioneering spirit and joy of discovering increasingly better sound through using unconventional means and tubes.
  
 And to those who make fun of our efforts, I don't think that they would be so quick to disparage what we have achieved if they would hear what we hear.


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## nephilim

I am a frequent visitor of this thread because I still feel curious about the development of this wonderful amp. From my personal experience and from what I have read throughout the past days I am with Suuup, vince741 and mordy.  #8518 says it all.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> Hi hpamdr,
> 
> Please tell me if the people who are using EL3N, C3g and GEC A1834 and 6L6GC tubes are using exotic tubes or regular, run of the mill OEM tubes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing should be banned and everyone can use what he want including tubes, adapter, transformer, and discuss it. All the contributions are useful and can be debated, it is just a matter of topic segmentation !  
  
  
  
*2Hypnos1* Why not starting the "NewNew appeased F.A. Elise thread"


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> Nothing should be banned and everyone can use what he want including tubes, adapter, transformer, and discuss it. All the contributions are useful and can be debated, it is just a matter of topic segmentation !
> 
> 
> 
> *2Hypnos1* Why not starting the "NewNew appeased F.A. Elise thread"



The reason is we're the splitting an already small group of people into two. 





nephilim said:


> I am a frequent visitor of this thread because I still feel curious about the development of this wonderful amp. From my personal experience and from what I have read throughout the past days I am with Suuup, vince741 and mordy.  #8518 says it all.



Hi Neph! Long time no see. How is it going with your Elise? Any news?


----------



## nephilim

She is in good hands


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> The reason is we're the splitting an already small group of people into two.


 
 The matter is not to split the community, just separate topic...  Everyone should be able to contribute in more than one thread !


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think the knowledge passed on by those who expiriment and bring new horizons in sound quality, benefits all. 

That's the way it was in the Little Dot thread before the Elise, and I was always greateful for the ones on the bleeding edge, for saving me the expense and time to bring the new tubes into the lime light.

Tube amps are notoriously simple devices, the tubes really do shape the sound and character of the amp. 

All of the top posters' here use at least some completely unauthorized tubes in their amps. 

I don't understand what the problem is now. The external transformer was a step too far? Odd that anyone could feel that way as it was an extremely positive action to take for the Elise and/or any make of tube amp. It makes Your amp run much cooler and as a direct result, your Elise will run much longer. It's always heat, that kills a tube amp.

Perhaps a new thread should be started that is exclusively designed to be a sales vehicle? State the rules/parameters clearly on page one?

Cheers to all the LUCKY ones...


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> I'm sorry if the current discussion is deterring people form buying the Elise. With that said, this is not a sales thread. This is a thread for discussing everything related to Elise. So far, we've been very large in what we've allowed. A lot of off topic have been discussed. Certainly stuff much further removed from Elise than external heating. If discussion about external heating is banned, we'll have to be much more strict. Quite a lot of discussion will have to be removed. This will include stuff like discussing good songs / music, personal stories like LR's visit to Australia, and much much more. This is all something I love having here, so I would be sad to see it go, just to 'try' to 'remove' some drama.


 
 I don't know it it deferring anyone. I didn't claim it was. Just stated that as a concern.
  
 I don't really know many of the rules here at Head Fi. I don't know if H1 or anyone else has the authority to "ban" anything. I didn't advocate "banning".
  
 Most threads that I see here at Head Fi include some music sharing and appropriate personal stories with some reasonable connection to the thread subject. That doesn't normally seem to cause a problem. In fact it seems to promote some sense of community. I'm not aware it is causing any problem here. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing this degree of modification discussed in a product's main thread, but I could certainly be wrong. 
  
 I said nothing about this being a sales thread, so I assume you were replying to someone else with that comment. I simply described how the thread had benefited me, and expressed my hope the thread would be of similar benefit to others going through what I've been through.
  
 I stand by what I wrote, but I'm just one person - and relatively junior here at Head Fi.
  
 I'm just stating my personal views. I don't want to get in an argument with anyone here. I do that for a living in front of judges and juries!!! I just come here for fun, to learn, and hopefully pass on some information that could be of help to at least one other person.


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> I don't know it it deferring anyone. I didn't claim it was. Just stated that as a concern.
> 
> I don't really know many of the rules here at Head Fi. I don't know if H1 or anyone else has the authority to "ban" anything. I didn't advocate "banning".
> 
> ...



I'm not sure how you understood my comment, maybe I was to vague. I'm not attacking anyone. I like all of the music sharing and personal stories. It builds a strong community. However, if we ban modding with external power supplies, we have to ban a whole lot of other stuff, like the music sharing and personal stories, since these are far less relevant for a thread about Elise than modding with external power supplies is. 

Right now we're not excluding any content, and if we start doing that, it's a slippery slope and a lot of other stuff will have to go aswell. I say we don't exclude anything or anyone.


----------



## Suuup

hpamdr said:


> The matter is not to split the community, just separate topic...  Everyone should be able to contribute in more than one thread !



Yes, but if both threads recieve 50% the posts that are posted now, they risk dying.


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## hypnos1

Guys.
  
 I knew this would be controversial for some, but I did not reach this point lightly or suddenly.
  
 I have always been the first to plead guilty to "experimenting" with tube rolling in Elise, despite my promises to Lukasz to keep such tinkering to an absolute minimum. In the process, we have indeed enabled people to take Elise to new levels of performance and which _to a degree_ is attractive to a certain number of enterprising hobbyists.
  
 However, for some time now I have felt we have been going too far in this direction - for this _general_ thread -  which, as I mentioned, has attracted a good few negative comments....(this is far removed from the lighthearted banter/songs etc. which help bring relief from the more serious aspects of what we do!). And I believe we would have been better served by in fact keeping a "Rolling Thread" going _in tandem_ a long while ago...as has been mentioned, this does not represent any sort of "banning" or "faction/splitting"...there's no reason whatsoever why folks can't contribute to *both* - the choice would be there for everyone to dip into at will, and those who do not wish to participate in the more extreme experimentation will certainly feel more comfortable in having this _choice._
  
 As for the comments on whichever thread being purely a "sales thread",  I prefer not to deign any reply to such unworthy comments.
  
 And so I stand by my personal recommendation for there to be 2 threads that can work together so as to appeal to _all_ comers, which is indeed what seems to work for most other items of equipment - sometimes a lot more than two threads, even!


----------



## connieflyer

Permit me to inject my thoughts here.  A while back I was considering purchasing either the Elise or the TU8200 kit.  I read both forums, avidly.  I have an Ember at present, but was gettiing bored with buying up all these 9 pin tubes, looking for just the right combination, that would make my equipment sound it's best. So I decide on those two amps.  In the mean time Jeremy came up with the 6sn7 adapter for the Ember, so figured since I had and Ember to give it a try.  Really liked it, bought a dozen or so tubes, looking to find nirvana.  Same results, some good, some bad, the 7193 dual adapter came along, had to try it, it was better.  Then came the dual 6j5 adapter and I loved it.  Decided Not to buy a new amp.  Then the chasing began anew.  The original Elise thread was the same thing, chasing tubes.  Stopped looking at it.  Same for the Tu 8200.  Ended up with 4 Visseaux 6j5's, two hundred dollars on four tubes plus all the rest that I had.  Each new tube brought a little more to the table.  The Visseaux were the best, everyone said so, but I still liked the Sylvania's in the amp.  Sold off most of the other tubes, including all 4 Visseaux's .  Started looking around at the Elise thread...New thread.  Refreshing what they were doing, started at page one and read all the way to current.  Asked a few questions of a couple of members, very helpful folks.  All the way through the pages, never got the feeling, what they were trying to do was in anyway wrong.  In fact, I decided on what I had learned here, and the helpful responses of the members, to just go ahead and order and Elise.  Invoice 50, when will I get it, who knows, still have my Ember.  In the mean time,  I have read all about what was tried, what worked and the results, from almost all members was positive on what they were hearing.  Will I try the six power tubes, probably not, but not because I think it is going to far, but just don't have the time to invest in making everything work together.  I am going to start out stock , listen compare to what others have heard, and go from there.  Would like to eventually get up to UntilThen's system.  Looks great, apparently sounds great so why not.  What I am trying to say is that if this, if I would have gone back to the tube rolling thread, I probably would have just let it go and stayed with the Ember.  But THIS thread, is so enthusiatic, and experimenting with pushing the bondraies of what is possible with the amp, I was fasinated enough to buy the product.  The tube rolling forum is fine, still look in, but this is where the interest is.  I don't see the need to separate what this is doing into more threads.  If some folks get upset, they do all over the net.  I belong to a couple of dozen forums, and I visit them regularly, and it is always the guy (girl) that can not be bothered to research the thread.  A simple search will usually find what you want, and then, ask for more detail if needed.  I know it gets agrevating having the same questions come up, but if they do, answer them if you have time, if not just ignore them.
 This thread was setup for a purpose, not just to be tube rolling, and I for one would miss having the interaction.  If I don't want to watch a Utube, I don't clik on it.  But I can't tell you, the number of times, that I did, and found whole universes of music, that I would never have tried on my own.  Music is my salvation at my age, it moves me, it relaxes me gives me hope for the future, that people with talent, as the folks that populate this thread are, strive for more.  Okay, now that you all have to put in eye drops from the strain of reading this diatribe, just give it some thought. What brought you here, instead of the tube rolling forum?


----------



## mordy

Hi hypnos1,
  
 I have not seen any negative comments. The only thing I can think of are a few comments regarding the aesthetics of strange looking adapters and wires all over the place, calling these contraptions "Frankenstein" amps.
  
 Personally, I have solved this problem by placing my amp on my right. When I listen to music I am not looking at it, just enjoying the glorious sound from the speakers in front of me. A quick turn of my listening chair allows me to adjust volume and tone controls, and to check the temperature of the Elise.
  
 As far as your promise to Feliks about not tinkering with the amp, I interpret this to mean not to open it up and do modding of internal components (I think this was mentioned in early posts). As far as I know, nobody on the forum has attempted this so far. To plug in adapters is only an external thing and not any different than rolling tubes. I must admit that I found it daunting in the beginning in the old days to use external power supplies and voltage regulators, but once I got the hang of it, it was quite simple.
  
 I also admit that it was a relief, coming from a modded Little Dot MKIII, to the Elise, without any wires and electrical paraphernalia. However, the sound  I enjoy now makes it more than worth it.
  
 Not wanting to dwell on negative issues, but maybe you could elucidate what the negative comments are about?
  
 In summary, all the people on this forum are indebted to you for bringing the concept of Elise to our attention and to see it become a reality, and we all have countless hours of musical pleasure and enjoyment to thank you for.
  
 IMHO it would be a pity to split up the thread - we can all benefit from each others' knowledge and experiences.


----------



## connieflyer

The Ember thread, when the 7193 dual adapter came out the nicknamed it the FrankenEmber, and further adapters were given similar names.  Did it bother me, not in the least. Poor choice of words, I don't think they meant to be harmful, and you have to admit when the first pics came out before the member had a chance to clean things up, looked a little "confused", but it worked.  He was excited to share what he had done, I probably would have done the same.  Great thread.


----------



## vince741

I agree with Suuup on this one, I think the system that is in place ATM is the best (or the least evil, depending on your pov).

No offence and genuinely asking, but what do you keep on talking in this thread if we talk about unconventional tubes elsewhere?
I can't remember the last time I heard of a 100℅ approve combo (for me el3n is not approved as well because it's not plug and play). So what does it leave us with? Songs from YouTube? There is other place in this forum to talk about that as well I'm sure.
So what's left after that? People asking for comparison between other amp? Great but as a small group, we don't have that many equipment to compare and people can be rather defensive here like yesterday. (Yet again, I'm not trying to be offensive).

I love this thread as a whol like it is now, with the tubes, stories and music clip.
But if the tubes are separated, I can only see this current thread going this way:
1)mostly music clip which has nothing to do in particular with Elise so newcomer won't stay.
2) people saying go see post number x in the rolling tubes thread.

Yet again, not trying to talk anyone down and I do feel that the current mix of music, tubes and stories is great.


----------



## connieflyer

I was wondering, with all the concentration on the power tubes, how much difference do the driver tubes make?  I have alot of 6sn7's to roll in, just wondered how much of a difference does it make?
 Thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> I was wondering, with all the concentration on the power tubes, how much difference do the driver tubes make?  I have alot of 6sn7's to roll in, just wondered how much of a difference does it make?
> Thanks




Hello CF...

Drivers influence more than Power tubes...

Agree with impressions of 6SN7's seen here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread

One of my favorites in Elise is Ken Rad VT231


----------



## connieflyer

I have a pair of them and the Sylvania vt 231, and RCA grey glass so I will stay with these for awhile, when the amp gets here.  Until then I will just keep paying attention and learn what I can.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> I have a pair of them and the Sylvania vt 231, and RCA grey glass so I will stay with these for awhile, when the amp gets here.  Until then I will just keep paying attention and learn what I can.




All great Tubes, CF you'll be a happy camper.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks, now the wait begins in earnest.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Thanks, now the wait begins in earnest.




The wait is the hardest part.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

As an outsider looking in, here is my take on the so-called "drama." First, I don't think censorship is the answer. I'll explain later what I think would be best, in conjunction with the suggestion that one must keep ever aware that misunderstandings prevail without access to a person's face and voice-tone immediately present.
  
 This also holds for my view of what the Ember thread has become: the Elise seems like a fantastic amp, but navigating the labyrinth of high-spirited recommendations for tubes, often conflicting (even within the same person over time), makes it utterly bewildering where to begin with this amp, and the fear for me would be that I would be so far behind the capabilities of the amp by not constantly upgrading to the latest thing, which seems to change weekly, if not daily. The term unreliability comes to mind. Unreliable and fickle. 
  
 The issue, for me, concerns less of moving beyond the original design than the fact that I often read impressions that are almost entirely positive of a certain tube, filled with the most intense enthusiasm, that seem to be controverted within days or even hours by that same person--with no mention of that former tube combination that just now enchanted them. This is madness, it seems to me. It's one thing to say that people encounter new things and grow, but what I see is a constant, sustained *enthusiasmos* that crosses over from tube to tube within the same family--or type to type--leaving me so confused as to distrust the entire enterprise. This is also how I have felt reading the Ember thread over time. I wouldn't want to touch that amp with a ten foot pole, due to the extreme volatility of hourly tube-rolling trends and fashions.
  
 I think people need to just "chill out" and test things FOR AWHILE, over time, before immediately posting their enthusiastic impressions, being aware that they may very well learn something new later. It would improve the signal to noise ratio on this thread and other threads, keeping more people enlightened as to what tubes work best rather than encouraging people to go buy X set of tubes on ebay for hundreds of dollars and then later saying "that tube sucks; if you add Z item to the amp, these Y hundred-dollar tubes clearly surpass X".
  
 I think there is a legitimate case for finding new tubes and tube types that work better with each other in the amp for one's specific headphones and headphone chain--for sure, absolutely. Yet it would probably help everyone, including even the poster's sanity, to delay prior to posting an underscored, outlined, Photoshop-embellished post (as if designed for an advertisement) that is accompanied with captions that convey images of trembling fingers, sighing swoons, ear orgasms, and other such nonsense--which, after awhile, destroy one's credibility, particularly if such posts immediately step on the toes of previous posts which were composed as equally superficially, about different tubes that were proclaimed as the next Messiah for the amp being discussed.


----------



## DecentLevi

Great points, my fellow Head-Fi'er Ms. Junyuan. Way to go speaking your mind and not holding anything back. In hindsight you're sure right - this has become a bit of an 'expensive' thread with a lot of 'flavor of the week'. You may have noticed I'm guilty of the same thing though on the Ember thread, posting right after trying a new tube - vehemently recommending everybody buy something at the moment I'm having my 'new toy syndrome'. But as a result of this thread, it's got me to spend at least $325 on tubes and adapters for the Elise even though I don't have it yet - and even having to buy some on credit just so I can make sure to get the best sound out of it while I still can. Some of those tube recommendations have already been declared obsolete on this thread, but I think I'll just stick to around 10-15 tubes in all and make the best of it.
  
 PS - it was quite eerie to hear the phrase "until then" mentioned without the one, the only @UntilThen
 I can honestly say something seems a little off kilter - a little out of place and lonely without his welcoming spirit. Saving a rare fluke exception, I say he is a true champion around here.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

decentlevi said:


> Great points, my fellow Head-Fi'er Ms. Junyuan. Way to go speaking your mind and not holding anything back. In hindsight you're sure right - this has become a bit of an 'expensive' thread with a lot of 'flavor of the week'. You may have noticed I'm guilty of the same thing though on the Ember thread, posting right after trying a new tube - vehemently recommending everybody buy something at the moment I'm having my 'new toy syndrome'. But as a result of this thread, it's got me to spend at least $325 on tubes and adapters for the Elise even though I don't have it yet - and even having to buy some on credit just so I can make sure to get the best sound out of it while I still can. Some of those tube recommendations have already been declared obsolete on this thread, but I think I'll just stick to around 10-15 tubes in all and make the best of it.
> 
> PS - it was quite eerie to hear the phrase "until then" mentioned without the one, the only @UntilThen
> I can honestly say something seems a little off kilter - a little out of place and lonely without his welcoming spirit. Saving a rare fluke exception, I say he is a true champion around here.


 
 Yeah, I like UT as well. He's a great person, it seems to me, and he clearly has tremendous respect toward others and dedication to personal audio. I also love your posts; you really taught me a lot about electronic music, more than you probably know. 
  
 At the same time, I don't think the poster asking for comparisons to other amps was trolling. That was a legitimate question that I myself had to ask with regards to the 339 thread. I am very curious how the 339 matches up to the Elise and other amps in the same price range (I have a pretty good grasp of how it fares with Crack w/SB and the Vallhalla 2, which I've owned and know it surpasses).
  
 I wasn't saying anyone was guilty in particular. We are all flawed.


----------



## DecentLevi

liu junyuan said:


> ...
> I think people need to just "chill out" and test things out FOR AWHILE, over time, before immediately posting their enthusiastic impressions, being aware that they may very well learn something new later...


 
 This was my favorite part of your post, and I would like to help clarify to hopefully prevent any offense this may cause - I think what she meant by this was to:
 A not take offense too easy - come on this is just audio gear we're talking about
 B take your time and get to know year gear before proclaiming it's the best thing since the wheel
  
 But for me, the 2nd one a tuffy, how to hold your enthusiasm and not write a review before you forget all the details... or maybe just be sure to mention those are "initial impressions"
 Anyhow, back to the sonic wonders of the Elise!


----------



## hpamdr

connieflyer said:


> I was wondering, with all the concentration on the power tubes, how much difference do the driver tubes make?  I have alot of 6sn7's to roll in, just wondered how much of a difference does it make?
> Thanks


 

 To what i've experienced, I will make a parallel with photography to share my feeling. The drivers give the picture and the colors, the power tubes gives the focus plus final filtering.

 I usually use some CSF 6080 _(not the king in any domain but quite neutral)_ as power tube when experimenting new drivers on Elise if not using my CTH amps.
 The power tubes generally add some bass, more soundstage, open medium, give a bit of clarity...
  
 Testing only VT231 drivers, you can see that RCA, KR, Sylvania gives a sound signature like warm, bassy, detailed.... If you change the power tube, you will keep the main personality but adjust some parameters.. But as we are mostly speaking about feeling the best is to experiment yourself, and finally enjoy your music !


----------



## Suuup

liu junyuan said:


> As an outsider looking in, here is my take on the so-called "drama." First, I don't think censorship is the answer. I'll explain later what I think would be best, in conjunction with the suggestion that one must keep ever aware that misunderstandings prevail without access to a person's face and voice-tone immediately present.
> 
> This also holds for my view of what the Ember thread has become: the Elise seems like a fantastic amp, but navigating the labyrinth of high-spirited recommendations for tubes, often conflicting (even within the same person over time), makes it utterly bewildering where to begin with this amp, and the fear for me would be that I would be so far behind the capabilities of the amp by not constantly upgrading to the latest thing, which seems to change weekly, if not daily. The term unreliability comes to mind. Unreliable and fickle.
> 
> ...


 
 First off, have you read the whole thread? It started out with C3g. I still haven't heard anyone say anything negative about C3g. Group consensus is they're some very good tubes. All agree they're VERY detailed. Next up was ECC31? Same thing. People still like the ECC31. A few voices have been concerned with treble and upper mids, but that has always been the case. They're not bad, but there are better tubes for those frequencies. 6N7G? Yup, still talked about very positively. FDD20? Whenever it's mentioned, UT often comes in and says they're some of his favorite drivers. This sentence: "that tube sucks; if you add Z item to the amp, these Y hundred-dollar tubes clearly surpass X" is *NOT* the case. I do not agree with it at all, and I believe it puts all of us in here in bad light. 
  
 "I think people need to just "chill out" and test things FOR AWHILE". We do. There's a problem when talking about audio. You often need A LOT of disclaimers. Something that's very bothersome. Example: If UT just got a new tube, he'll post pictures of it. After listening to it for a few hours, he'll post a few first impressions. He may say it's very good or whatever, that's not the point. Point is, even if UT doesn't say "This is very good, but these are just my first impressions, YMMV, etc.", we all know it's his first impressions. We all know our milage may vary. This long list of disclaimers isn't necessary after a while. You're saying we should NOT post about a tube, just because we haven't listened to it for more than 100 hours yet? Nonsense! Of course we should feel free to post all we want. Sure, a ton of disclaimers would be nice, but it's bothersome, both to write and read, since they would have to be on pretty much every post. We all know not to take something for fact, and that an impression posted after 2 hours of listening is not the same as an impression posted after 100 hours of listening. 
  
 Take the latest example of EL3N. First off, I want to say I don't like the tube personally. That doesn't matter though, as a lot of people do. H1 was the first. He got the tube working with his own adapters, and listened for a few hours. He then posted a picture to the thread, as well as saying that this might be something good. No saying that people have to go out and buy this tube right now. He listened some more, and posted more and more impressions. A few times a week he posted more impressions, so we could all follow along, reading how it developed to him. 
  
  
 If you look at the recommendations for new people on this thread, it's always: "Listen to it stock at first. If you want more, come to us and tell us what you want more of. We'll try to point you in the right direction. " It's never: "You have to buy tube A, B, C ....Y, and Z. Then you need this and that and..". There's no 'getting behind' and 'not being up with the latest'. Everyone is free to do what they want. If someone finds a new tube and finds it very good, of course other people might buy it. It's possible that this may make it seem that there's a 'latest and greatest', but that's not really the case. JV got the 6N7G on accident, but found it very enjoyable. Some of us bought it as well. I still find it to be a fantastic tube. In fact, I bid on more 6N7G just yesterday. I'm running FDD20 right now. Absolutely love them. These are a 12V version of the 6N7G with a different base also, so still the same family of tubes. 
  
  
 So..
 I don't agree with your point that a peoples opinion conflict with themselves. Others, sure, but that's bound to happen, as not everyone likes the same sound. 
 I don't agree with your point that we have to 'chill out'. We already do so, and don't tell people that this new tube is the second coming of Christ. It might seem like we need some disclaimers, but it's all implied. 
 I don't agree with your point that you have to throw hundreds of dollars at new tubes and other things. The recommendation for new people is stock, and the tell us what more you want, if anything.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi again guys.
  
 It's quite clear - as expected! - that there are wildly opposing views on the merits (or otherwise!) of my proposition.
  
 Yes, there will be some who are attracted by the enthusiastic efforts of such as the latest multi-tube set-ups - and some who are *NOT*... This must be a factor to take into account.
  
 Yes, there would be a diluting of coverage on this thread....but only as relates to the need for the recent ever-increasing level of external power supply requirement (of course this can bring certain benefits - such as relieving stress on Elise's trafo - but as I mentioned previously, I feel this is _not_ giving due respect to the Feliks-Audio guys, and _*is*_ a step too far. Plus, is very unlikely to appeal to many owners - old or new, IMHO). There is no reason why those who wish to limit the extent of their tube rolling can't do so on this thread, and those more adventurous/experienced souls carry on the advanced work in a tandem thread...and what's wrong with steering someone in that direction if they display an interest in something more exotic? - this is what people do in such communities, lol!
  
 And finally, I know - @mordy - there hasn't been much evidence of dissent in this regard on the actual thread, but there are a good many who do not post publicly their views/concerns...and via private communications - direct and vicarious - I have been somewhat surprised (not pleasantly!) by the extent of this negativity, and cannot ignore it any longer. Hence the conclusion I personally have reached - for better or worse - and I take no real pleasure in it. But I still believe that the two threads running together _*can*_ satisfy the _*majority *_of people, which must always be the end goal in any sphere, as far as I'm concerned. But as always, everyone is entitled to their own views of course, and I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I am obviously going to be caught right in the middle of the crossfire, but I can only express _*my own*_ views, and speak on behalf of Feliks-Audio, who have already been _more_ than tolerant of our experimentation lol!


----------



## vince741

Disclaimer: this message is sent without animosity.
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hypnos1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yes, there would be a diluting of coverage on this thread....but only as relates to the need for the recent ever-increasing level of external power supply requirement (of course this can bring certain benefits - such as relieving stress on Elise's trafo - but as I mentioned previously, I feel this is _not_ giving due respect to the Feliks-Audio guys, and _*is*_ a step too far. Plus, is very unlikely to appeal to many owners - old or new, IMHO). There is no reason why those who wish to limit the extent of their tube rolling can't do so on this thread, and those more adventurous/experienced souls carry on the advanced work in a tandem thread...and what's wrong with steering someone in that direction if they display an interest in something more exotic? - this is what people do in such communities, lol!


 
 Why do you put the line at external power and not everything that include an adapter?
 I'm sorry but I don't think that using, for instance, EL3N is any more "right" (or "wrong") than using tubes that need an external power supply.
 In both case, this was not intended by Feliks Audio and I don't think that we should do an half-ass job (in any direction). If you do it out of respect for Feliks Audio, it's fine but be consistent. Everything adapter related should be talked in the other thread.
  
 e/ With the exception of 6080 as Feliks Audio give an adapter and they are in the Elise manual.


----------



## Tertera

> Originally Posted by *Liu Junyuan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> labyrinth of high-spirited recommendations for tubes, often conflicting (even within the same person over time), makes it utterly bewildering where to begin with this amp, and the fear for me would be that I would be so far behind the capabilities of the amp by not constantly upgrading to the latest thing, which seems to change weekly, if not daily. The term unreliability comes to mind. Unreliable and fickle.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fantastic post !!  Couldn't have said better.


----------



## hypnos1

vince741 said:


> Why do you put the line at external power and not everything that include an adapter?
> I'm sorry but I don't think that using, for instance, EL3N is any more "right" (or "wrong") than using tubes that need an external power supply.
> In both case, this was not intended by Feliks Audio and I don't think that we should do an half-ass job (in any direction). If you do it out of respect for Feliks Audio, it's fine but be consistent. Everything adapter related should be talked in the other thread.
> 
> e/ With the exception of 6080 as Feliks Audio give an adapter and they are in the Elise manual.


 
  
 Hi there vince.
  
 I'm glad you posted this, as it has in fact reminded me of why I have always been a little reticent about playing around with external power supplies - as mordy mentioned, there _are _dangers involved. You do not need high _voltages_ to get into serious trouble...it's the _current_ that can kill, or at least cause serious problems. It was potentially dangerous enough when drawing less than 2A, but with the latest figures well in excess of this even, I personally no longer want to be associated with such _possible_ disasters...and neither do Feliks-Audio.* Any such extra power requirement should be forthcoming from within the safety of an enclosed amp, *as far as I am concerned*. *
  
 The table below sets out the potential for _*serious*_ injury, even at very low amperage....too many people are either not aware of this, or take dangerous risks. Reminding myself of these facts has actually strengthened my position regarding such practices...._*I DO NOT WISH FOR SUCH POTENTIAL DISASTER HERE IN THIS THREAD...SORRY!...*_


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again guys.
> 
> It's quite clear - as expected! - that there are wildly opposing views on the merits (or otherwise!) of my proposition.
> 
> ...



Agree with Vince. Where should the line be drawn. If we use stock tubes, but heat them externally to increase the lifespan of Elise, should it be allowed? 

I'm sorry, but I feel like a lot of people will be excluded. 

Put a bit more bluntly, I will probably find elsewhere to post about my tube journey.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Agree with Vince. Where should the line be drawn. If we use stock tubes, but heat them externally to increase the lifespan of Elise, should it be allowed?
> 
> I'm sorry, but I feel like a lot of people will be excluded.
> 
> Put a bit more bluntly, I will probably find elsewhere to post about my tube journey.


 
  
 Hi Suuup....please read my last post re the dangers associated with external PSs - I sincerely hope you never experience the kind of accident that can so easily occur in such cases - I certainly wouldn't want to hear about it in this thread, lol  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....or _*anywhere!!...*_


----------



## Lord Raven

I am daily using 12V 2A external heating and adapters with FDD20, ECC31 with adapters, EL3N with adapters. I sometimes feel like I am robbed, I spent more than the amp itself to improve its sound. 
  
 I have almost quit visiting the page, one day something is top notch, next day it is found in the bin. This is too much tube rolling and drama attached to it. The excitement of telling it to others is gone. The time is near when someone would open Elise and start doing internal mods and would say, this is magic, sparkles, stardust, just add this 200$ capacitor and you don't need anything else LOL 
  
 Safe listening guys, honestly, you don't need 200$ tubes to enjoy the music!
  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones 




 LR


----------



## connieflyer

As far as the manufacture is concerned, these people here are doing alot of R&D for them, to see what will work, what won't and where they should take the next iteration of Elise amp, without spending a dime.  Anyone that uses electricity is at risk at some point. When I was a flight electronics tech, I had to play with amperage that would fry you instantly, aka Magnetron tubes, in oil baths to prevent arching of the leads, and this is airborne will the plane is pitching up and down.  Not fun but if you are aware of the dangers, are careful, and follow good practice, I see no problem with using external transformers.  Is there a danger, goes with out saying, but it should be up to the individual as to what they do.  If people only want to use the amp stock, by all means, if they want information on different tubes, there is already an Elise tube rolling thread, they can just as easily go there. Common sense has to rule your life, you don't need to be told, that don't put things in the electrical outlet or you may get a shock.  I was told as a child not to do it, I did it anyway, and learned an abject lesson from it. People today seem to have the need for total protection, want to ride a bicycle, you have to wear a helmet for your own good.  Play street hockey, pads are a must.  Life is not meant to be lived in total protection and supervision.  Who knows, Feliks company may read these threads and say, you know, if we put a better and bigger transformer in the Elise, at a slightly higher price, may get more people involved.  Maybe even offer, high quality adapters, for some combinations.  You all are free to do as you want with this thread, if it changes to what has been suggested, I for one, won't bother with either.  I will go my own way.  This thread is active and alive, not dead like so many others. Still gains to be made for the Elise which is a good thing.  Products and life doesn't remain stagnant, it is the variety that makes it interesting. You want to read about everyone who gets a new Elise and how nice it is, it will get old in a hurry.  Case in point log on to the Senn 650 headphone forum, very active, and all the same, just different people saying the same thing over and over again for years.  That is my thoughts on this and I will now let the rest of you decide your own fates for this thread.


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> I am daily using 12V 2A external heating and adapters with FDD20, ECC31 with adapters, EL3N with adapters. I sometimes feel like I am robbed, I spent more than the amp itself to improve its sound.
> 
> I have almost quit visiting the page, one day something is top notch, next day it is found in the bin. This is too much tube rolling and drama attached to it. The excitement of telling it to others is gone. The time is near when someone would open Elise and start doing internal mods and would say, this is magic, sparkles, stardust, just add this 200$ capacitor and you don't need anything else LOL
> 
> ...


 
 Hi LR)) I've missed seeing you here. I too tried a lot of tubes, both for power and drivers. I did use external power for the FDD20s. I have finally settled on the 6 X EL3N combination and feel no need to do anything other than listen and enjoy - and safely I might add. H1's post on the dangers of fooling around with external power certainly caught my attention. I'm too much of a klutz to feel I can safely turn my desktop into an experimental lab)))
  
 Hope you are doing well)))


----------



## aqsw

I spent way too much money on the tube of the minute. TS 5998s and  Mazdas were tubes that were highly praised that I got rid of (and lost $$) because my amp didn't like them. I have fdd20s with adapters that I no longer use, along with the ecc31.
  
 After alot of going back and forth , I have settled with the stock Svetlana Powers or 6080 Thomson Powers and 2 El3ns. No more rolling for me.
 I'm just going to enjoy the music from this gem of an amp.
  
 P.S. I believe the clarity, seperation, and air, will come from a quality dac before a quality amp.


----------



## Suuup

connieflyer said:


> As far as the manufacture is concerned, these people here are doing alot of R&D for them, to see what will work, what won't and where they should take the next iteration of Elise amp, without spending a dime.  Anyone that uses electricity is at risk at some point. When I was a flight electronics tech, I had to play with amperage that would fry you instantly, aka Magnetron tubes, in oil baths to prevent arching of the leads, and this is airborne will the plane is pitching up and down.  Not fun but if you are aware of the dangers, are careful, and follow good practice, I see no problem with using external transformers.  Is there a danger, goes with out saying, but it should be up to the individual as to what they do.  If people only want to use the amp stock, by all means, if they want information on different tubes, there is already an Elise tube rolling thread, they can just as easily go there. Common sense has to rule your life, you don't need to be told, that don't put things in the electrical outlet or you may get a shock.  I was told as a child not to do it, I did it anyway, and learned an abject lesson from it. People today seem to have the need for total protection, want to ride a bicycle, you have to wear a helmet for your own good.  Play street hockey, pads are a must.  Life is not meant to be lived in total protection and supervision.  Who knows, Feliks company may read these threads and say, you know, if we put a better and bigger transformer in the Elise, at a slightly higher price, may get more people involved.  Maybe even offer, high quality adapters, for some combinations.  You all are free to do as you want with this thread, if it changes to what has been suggested, I for one, won't bother with either.  I will go my own way.  This thread is active and alive, not dead like so many others. Still gains to be made for the Elise which is a good thing.  Products and life doesn't remain stagnant, it is the variety that makes it interesting. You want to read about everyone who gets a new Elise and how nice it is, it will get old in a hurry.  Case in point log on to the Senn 650 headphone forum, very active, and all the same, just different people saying the same thing over and over again for years.  That is my thoughts on this and I will now let the rest of you decide your own fates for this thread.


 
 Absolutely agree with the CF! Very good post!


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi there vince.
> 
> I'm glad you posted this, as it has in fact reminded me of why I have always been a little reticent about playing around with external power supplies - as mordy mentioned, there _are _dangers involved. You do not need high _voltages_ to get into serious trouble...it's the _current_ that can kill, or at least cause serious problems. It was potentially dangerous enough when drawing less than 2A, but with the latest figures well in excess of this even, I personally no longer want to be associated with such _possible_ disasters...and neither do Feliks-Audio.* Any such extra power requirement should be forthcoming from within the safety of an enclosed amp, *as far as I am concerned*.*
> 
> The table below sets out the potential for _*serious*_ injury, even at very low amperage....too many people are either not aware of this, or take dangerous risks. Reminding myself of these facts has actually strengthened my position regarding such practices...._*I DO NOT WISH FOR SUCH POTENTIAL DISASTER HERE IN THIS THREAD...SORRY!...*_


 
 If people don't know how this stuff works, this table is VERY misleading. Let me make a calculation here. 
  
 What we want is Ohms law. U = R * I. Voltage = Resistance * Amperage.
  
 Let's move stuff around. 
  
 I = U / R. Amperage = Voltage / Resistance.
  
 This is what we want. Say we have a 6.3V DC power supply. This is the same voltage as we get with stock tubes in Elise. Now we need to know the resistance. According to Wikipedia, the resistance at 25V is about 3250 for 50% of the population. This value will be even higher for only 6.3V, but let's roll with it. Time to plug in the numbers. Fyi, resistance is measured in ohms
  
 6.3 Volt/ 3250 Ohm = 0.0019A. 
  
This is 1.9 mA. Shall we put that into perspective? You can start to feel a slight tingle when this value approaches 5 mA for DC power. Whoa, what? That's right. You can't even feel this shock. 
Remember, this 1.9 mA value will be even lower in reality, since the resistance of your skin will probably be higher. 
  
Is this enough to assuage people's fears?


----------



## connieflyer

As far as spending too much money, I spent easily three times the price of the Ember, on tubes, adapter of the day, what not.  Did I lose money, yes, all part of the process,  find what you like and enjoy it.  I sold off my better(?) tubes in favor of tubes I liked better. You buy a new car, and the minute you drive it off the lot, it decreases in valuve 20%, risk, rewards, all part of life and the learning process.  I have learned alot here about what I will do and what I won't do to get the music where I want it to be.  Music can connect to your soul, like nothing else can. It can move you in ways only you yourself can feel.  Don't stop the progress on this amp, it is reasonable prices and with a few upgrades (from what I have read) sounds better than amps costing much more.  Heard the same thing on  the Ember thread, everyone feels this I suppose, as a way to make up for over spending on it.  You usually don't see many people taking on the $1000.00 plus amps, and doing mods and tube rolling. Plug and play. When the Elise gets here and I do what I feel needs to be tried, I will still have my Ember and will probably use it, as the sound, as the way I have it suits me. It will be the same with the Elise. I could have been happy with just about any of the tube, adapter combo's with my amp, but am glad I tried outside the box, as it made "just"enough difference to go from "I  can probably live with this" to I can hardly wait to turn it on and escape to the music.


----------



## nojdrof

wb2016 said:


> nojdrof said:
> 
> 
> > WOW!
> ...




I ordered my Elise on 12-17-15
Invoice #35
I received it on 3-3-16


----------



## connieflyer

To soften your day......


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> If people don't know how this stuff works, this table is VERY misleading. Let me make a calculation here.
> 
> What we want is Ohms law. U = R * I. Voltage = Resistance * Amperage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed, Suuup....there are indeed many factors that would appear to determine the exact degree of current delivered to any individual. The table shown certainly is a "worst case scenario", but your figures seem equally to the _opposite_ (optimistic) extreme. Research on the net still shows the need for extreme care when dealing with even low-voltage DC. I - and others who have tinkered with external PSs here in head-fi land - have experienced _*far*_ more than a mere 'tingle', even when low(ish) current draw was involved.
  
 And I'm sorry @connieflyer, I know we are living in a "cotton wool" society now, but I for one do not believe in taking _*any*_ chances whatsoever when dealing with electricity - especially for those who have little or no experience/knowledge in handling it _*safely*_. Accidents can happen even with experienced professionals, as you will know.
  
 I advise _*anyone*_ without the necessary knowledge who is interested in approaching such matters to do _*extensive*_ research into this before even thinking about it - "fears assuaged"?..._*NO WAY, ALAS!!!*_


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed, Suuup....there are indeed many factors that would appear to determine the exact degree of current delivered to any individual. The table shown certainly is a "worst case scenario", but your figures seem equally to the _opposite_ (optimistic) extreme. Research on the net still shows the need for extreme care when dealing with even low-voltage DC. I - and others who have tinkered with external PSs here in head-fi land - have experienced _*far*_ more than a mere 'tingle', even when low(ish) current draw was involved.
> 
> And I'm sorry @connieflyer, I know we are living in a "cotton wool" society now, but I for one do not believe in taking _*any*_ chances whatsoever when dealing with electricity - especially for those who have little or no experience/knowledge in handling it _*safely*_. Accidents can happen even with experienced professionals, as you will know.
> 
> I advise _*anyone*_ without the necessary knowledge who is interested in approaching such matters to do _*extensive*_ research into this before even thinking about it - "fears assuaged"?..._*NO WAY, ALAS!!!*_


 
 I'm sorry, but there is nothing 'optimistic' about my figures. These are cold hard facts. If you have very sweaty hands, your skin resistance might be lower. It's still not harmful though. Another factor is whether or not it's AC or DC. My figure was for DC. You won't be able to feel 1.9 mA of DC power. If it's AC power, you will feel a slight tingle, as per your own figure.


----------



## vince741

When dd the price of the Elise went up?
 It was still $649 with stock tubes at the time of my purchase but it's $699 now.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I'm sorry, but there is nothing 'optimistic' about my figures. These are cold hard facts. If you have very sweaty hands, your skin resistance might be lower. It's still not harmful though. Another factor is whether or not it's AC or DC. My figure was for DC. You won't be able to feel 1.9 mA of DC power. If it's AC power, you will feel a slight tingle, as per your own figure.


 
  
 Hey Suuup...so the (very unpleasant) jolts that I and others have experienced were merely "slight tingles"?...boy, are we mighty wimps then!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 My final words on this matter are that my sole aim and motives are to promote _*responsible* _and the *safest possible* practices when experimenting with such modifications. I leave it up to individuals, of course, to make up their own minds - in the hope that they take the necessary steps to find out as much as possible (much more than has been posted here) about the safe use of a potentially dangerous medium, before venturing into this territory. Anything less is bordering on irresponsibility....
  
 And so the motto must be :* HAPPY*, and *SAFE* LISTENING TO ALL!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hey Suuup...so the (very unpleasant) jolts that I and others have experienced were merely "slight tingles"?...boy, are we mighty wimps then!!...:wink_face: ...
> 
> My final words on this matter are that my sole aim and motives are to promote _*responsible*_ and the *safest possible* practices when experimenting with such modifications. I leave it up to individuals, of course, to make up their own minds - in the hope that they take the necessary steps to find out as much as possible (much more than has been posted here) about the safe use of a potentially dangerous medium, before venturing into this territory. Anything less is bordering on irresponsibility....
> 
> And so the motto must be : *HAPPY*, and *SAFE* LISTENING TO ALL!  :bigsmile_face: ....



Maybe if it's 12V you're playing with, it might be more of a zap rather than tingle. Still far from dangerous.


----------



## Audict123

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.........*A RESPECTFUL REQUEST*...
> 
> I have been reflecting on Suuup's mention of the 'drama' that has indeed occurred from time to time on this thread, and realise that most is due to unconventional tube rolling, especially when additional external heater power supplies are needed.
> I have in fact personally received several (negative) comments on this subject and believe we are engendering some rather derogatory statements/views from others in our hobby.
> ...


 
  
 So many views already, might as well add mine. We all know use the expression 'system synergy'. 'In my system, with my ears' etc... This whole discussion is about personal thread synergy. Depending on who you are and what your goals are, the thread may have become more interesting by Frankenstein experiments or it may have steered you away from it and from ever buying an Elise.
  
 Personally, I think a split in two different threads like H1 proposed would be a good thing. One thread in which all one needs to do is buy some stuff that is commercially available to achieve the same, no DIY involved, and no worries about damaging anything (including the user ...). Ready made, commercial adapters would be fine (just make sure you use the right one!). A fitting thread name would be 'Elise tube rolling - plug and play solutions'. The other thread would be the category 'Experimental Elise tube rolling - enter at your own risk  '. I would read both! I would like both! Being a jellyfish I would mostly follow (act upon) the P&P thread, but I would be lured by the adventurous thread. But at least the difference between the two would be very clear. Note that many solutions would start in the experimental thread, but as soon as Mrs Xu Ling are another party makes an adapter you can order, the same combi should be perfectly safe and simple for the laymen. Some examples: C3G? Started in the experimental thread. Moved on to the P&P one later on. FDD20? This would have started in the experimental thread, and would stay there.
  
 Why is the difference relevant? It is - or it is not. Thread synergy... But if we want the thread to be interesting to newcomers and regular audiophiles, I think that the last we want is scare them off by blending two significantly different levels (for laymen!) of 'tube rolling'. As a personal anecdote: I was following the LKS Audio MH-DA003 thread for a while. I was really interested in that DAC. Until the point that almost all posts were done by a few people who started modifying the DAC at the mainboard level: replacing clocks, power supplies etc. Of course, only the modded versions lead to sonic Nirvana, but that's normal in our quests for Nirvana. The point is that I did not feel comfortable doing that kind of mods to an expensive DAC so I was just put off by these posts. Almost forgot the funny outcome of that... The other thread I was following was this Elise thread. I decided to spend my money on this amp, it just felt way more FUN. If I want anything for this thread is that it will keep on having this effect to newcomers .....   (Elise invoice No 40)


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> Maybe if it's 12V you're playing with, it might be more of a zap rather than tingle. Still far from dangerous.


 
  
 Hi S....are we talking the same scenario here? I myself am referring to when the system is under *load*...ie at least 2A draw, and very possibly a good deal higher than that. And there is always the possibility - no matter how slight -  of accidentally coming into contact with bare wires/connectors...


----------



## pctazhp

I'm not personally invested in how this debate turns out. I've already got all the information from this thread I need, and I find the debate currently raging between the HD800 Classic and "S" people far more interesting.
  
 I'm just surprised there hasn't been a little more deference and support for what I see as a reasonable suggestion coming from the man who got this whole Elise thing started in the first place.


----------



## vince741

You might want to check the SuperDupont Resonator by Sorrodje then .


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> You might want to check the SuperDupont Resonator by Sorrodje then .


 
 Thanks Vince. I know about Sorrodje's mod. It looks like he is getting close to producing a bunch of them. I'm just following that debate for the fun of it. I'm very happy with my T1 and HD700. 
  
 By the way, I really enjoyed Tyll's comparison of the Classic and the S. One of the best reviews I've read in a long time.
  
 Happy listening )))


----------



## vince741

Yeah it was a really good read despite the google translate french .
 Can't wait to have mine, Sorrodje's gonna produce some. I'm already on the list 
  
 e/ By the way, "Agnostic1er" who is referred along side Sorrodje is the same one who did the following Elise review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/13718


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> Yeah it was a really good read despite the google translate french .
> Can't wait to have mine, Sorrodje's gonna produce some. I'm already on the list


 
 I can understand your excitement. I will really be anxious to hear how you like your HD800s with the Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 With all our obsession over tubes here, choice of headphones is far more important, at least in my extremely humble opinion


----------



## vince741

Well the two other Elise french owners, I know of, both have the HD800 and like the pairing .
  
 e/ Anyway, do anyone got any info on when and why Feliks Audio bumped their prices? Doesn't seem to be limited to Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> Well the two other Elise french owners, I know of, both have the HD800 and like the pairing .
> 
> e/ Anyway, do anyone got any info on when and why Feliks Audio bumped their prices? Doesn't seem to be limited to Elise.


 
 You can't get those other two owners to join us here for all the fun we are having 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wasn't aware Feliks have raised their prices, but it doesn't surprise me. I'm not sure how many Elise's they are up to, but if it is 50, and you multiply that by the price of the Elise, they aren't exactly getting filthy rich !!!!


----------



## vince741

One of the two, agnostic1er, did a review for the Elise in headfi and homecinema-fr. He's already aware of this thread as he made a review.

The other one, got inspired by him (and asked help from sorrodje/agnostic about general tubes pairing with the hd800). As far as I know, he doesn't have an HF account but go to the same French forum as I do (tellement nomade).
I'm unsure of his English skill but I honestly wouldn't recommend this thread to him until this thread get back on track.


Concerning the price update, what's shocking me is how sneaky it is. I mean people where warned for the introductory price and the regular price but the price just went up like nothing happened this time.
Also you do have to factor that life is cheaper in Poland than France or the USA. Minimal wage is around 410e there.

E/ by that I don't mean that they don't deserve the money, just that wealth is relative.


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S....are we talking the same scenario here? I myself am referring to when the system is under *load*...ie at least 2A draw, and very possibly a good deal higher than that. And there is always the possibility - no matter how slight -  of accidentally coming into contact with bare wires/connectors...



To prove my point, I just touched the wire while the system was under load. Couldn't even feel the slightest tingle. 12V DC current. Exactly as my calculations predicted. Calculations said 3.8mA and you can't feel it until it's 5mA with DC power. 

Fears assuaged?


----------



## connieflyer

Anyone using the Thomson-csf 6080 tube made in France?  Picked up a pair very inexpensive from a supplier in Canada. Nice looking tubes, will have to wait awhile to hear them, but thought I would get a jump on tube round up.  Lots of 6sn7's so drivers are good to go


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> Concerning the price update, what's shocking me is how sneaky it is. I mean people where warned for the introductory price and the regular price but the price just went up like nothing happened this time.
> Also you do have to factor that life is cheaper in Poland than France or the USA. Minimal wage is around 410e there.
> 
> E/ by that I don't mean that they don't deserve the money, just that wealth is relative.


 
 With all due respect, I think "sneaky" is a pretty harsh and unfair accusation. I don't think a manufacturer is under any obligation to announce price increases in advance. I assume they didn't try to impose the increase on orders that had already been taken. The original discount was given at the very first while Elise was in its early introductory phase. I don't think that imposed any duty on Feliks to do the same with any future increases.
  
 Yes, life is not easy in many of the former Warsaw Pack countries and former Soviet states. My wife is from Ukraine so I know a little about that. But I think the Elise is still a real bargain, and the price increase pales in comparison to what many of us have spent in our tube-rolling adventures. In one sense, I'd gladly have waited three months and pay the new price now with the knowledge that has been collectively gained on this site over past three months. I might not have a drawer full of expensive tubes I will probably never use again. But I made my all of my adapter and tube purchases with eyes wide open knowing at the time that things were developing fast on this thread and that it would probably take time for some things to become clearer. So I really don't have any regrets. With my 6 X EL3Ns I am now a very happy camper.


----------



## vince741

pctazhp said:


> With all due respect, I think "sneaky" is a pretty harsh and unfair accusation. I don't think a manufacturer is under any obligation to announce price increases in advance. I assume they didn't try to impose the increase on orders that had already been taken. The original discount was given at the very first while Elise was in its early introductory phase. I don't think that imposed any duty on Feliks to do the same with any future increases.



Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I do think that calling sneaky a manufacturer that did not announce price increase in advance is debatable, but calling sneaky a manufacturer that did not announce price increase in real time is fair game.


----------



## connieflyer

Bought a new car lately?  Same thing, looked around found what I wanted, price increased $1500, no notice just business.  I would not call price hikes "sneaky" why should a manufacturer have to anounce a price hike, unless he is trying to drive a little business his way, before the price increase, to get buyers that are more price conscience.  I find no problem with what they did,
 Market drives price, demand drives prices up and down, depending on manufacturer.  I always thought that the original price could not stay as it was.  I think it was artifically low compared to other amps.  The Ember that I use until Elise arrives just recently went up in price, still good value for the price offering.  If Elise would have gone up 50% I would say that was putting it out of the ballpark but not the small adjustment they made.


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I do think that calling sneaky a manufacturer that did not announce price increase in advance is debatable, but calling sneaky a manufacturer that did not announce price increase in real time is fair game.


 
 I'm not even sure we disagree. I guess I really don't understand what you mean by "real time". But I've already expended more mental energy than this 71-year old brain can tolerate, so we can just let it go at that. Badly in need of some serious Elvis Presley listening before I drift off to sleep.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hey folks, I am sorry the external Transformer is seen as controversial.

It really is *NOT* dangerous. The terminal blocks come with a plastic cover. You won't accidentally 
touch any live wires. 

You would have a *much* easier time electrocuting yourself with the toaster that is in your kitchen.




I guess you would have to be smart enough to not have it plugged in, during the install, but 
for daily use, it's not a shock hazard. There are no capacitors, once switched off, there is no residual
charge.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> To prove my point, I just touched the wire while the system was under load. Couldn't even feel the slightest tingle. 12V DC current. Exactly as my calculations predicted. Calculations said 3.8mA and you can't feel it until it's 5mA with DC power.
> 
> Fears assuaged?


 
  
 Not yet, I fear S....I do not wish for you to try this, but did you make contact with _both_ wires, with you effectively grounded?
  
 Edit..  ps. I can only go by what I and others have had the misfortune to experience, regardless of your own, S - whatever the reason for the different results.
  
 Out of interest, I sought the advice of my local electronics repair man on this issue, and he wasn't even prepared to offer me any equipment that would provide external power supply for such applications. And when I queried re use for possible 9A draw, he was not at all amused.
  
 That certainly is enough for me personally - everyone else is free to make their own choices, of course...


----------



## vince741

pctazhp said:


> I'm not even sure we disagree. I guess I really don't understand what you mean by "real time". But I've already expended more mental energy than this 71-year old brain can tolerate, so we can just let it go at that. Badly in need of some serious Elvis Presley listening before I drift off to sleep. :blink:



I shouldn't translate at 2am, haha.

I meant "as it happened". If you go to the "news" section of their website, you can still see the $649. The fact that there was no announcement like "from now, the price will be" and that nobody apparently seen this increase before I accidentally bumped into it made me go for the word "sneaky".
(For people who will go, "at my grocery store...", this is not the same. They literraly have 4 products listed, all being made on demand, with at least two of them having a price increase).

And again, I have an issue with how this is handled, not the price itself. But the most important part is, enjoy your elvis, my friend.


----------



## WB2016

nojdrof said:


> I ordered my Elise on 12-17-15
> Invoice #35
> I received it on 3-3-16


 

 Thanks Nojdrof,
  
 hope the delay was due to the Christmas holidays.
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## WB2016

vince741 said:


> One of the two, agnostic1er, did a review for the Elise in headfi and homecinema-fr. He's already aware of this thread as he made a review.
> 
> The other one, got inspired by him (and asked help from sorrodje/agnostic about general tubes pairing with the hd800). As far as I know, he doesn't have an HF account but go to the same French forum as I do (tellement nomade).
> I'm unsure of his English skill but I honestly wouldn't recommend this thread to him until this thread get back on track.
> ...


 

 It should not be a surprise and is within the norms of business. They are in Poland and do everything in Euros and since the dollar has become very close to (Euro 1.10=1) a natural adaption this and probably having to do the jump of hiring another person to reduce delays in production this is quite normal. Thinking there is no exchange rate 3% and no paypal rate 3.75% that is added this is probably necessary. The price difference is less than 10% so there is no real need to do a huge action of informing everyone. Else they would have to do an increase of 20% just to communicate the price increase It just means they are reacting to the market, supply and demand. Also if you have to pay overtime to meet demand...
  
  
 It still is a great deal, and you cannot keep margins too low or start spending on communications and media at this stage of a company.
  
 Cheers,
 WB


----------



## WB2016

oskari said:


> Not nearly as good now as it once was.


 

 I assume you mean valve availability. Yeah but they still have the valves and abillity to match them.
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## vince741

wb2016 said:


> It should not be a surprise and is within the norms of business. They are in Poland and do everything in Euros and since the dollar has become very close to (Euro 1.10=1) a natural adaption this and probably having to do the jump of hiring another person to reduce delays in production this is quite normal. Thinking there is no exchange rate 3% and no paypal rate 3.75% that is added this is probably necessary. The price difference is less than 10% so there is no real need to do a huge action of informing everyone. Else they would have to do an increase of 20% just to communicate the price increase It just means they are reacting to the market, supply and demand. Also if you have to pay overtime to meet demand...
> 
> 
> It still is a great deal, and you cannot keep margins too low or start spending on communications and media at this stage of a company.
> ...


 
  
 This is not a debate, at least for me, of whether the Elise is worth the extra dollar
 It was never about the amount of money that I had this debate, but if you want to go the route of market, here it goes:
  
 Actually Poland use the zloty (not euro) and if you purchase a Feliks Audio product in Europe, you still pay them in dollar.
 The depreciation of the Euro is actually working in favor of them because they get more Euro/Zloty than they use to thanks to the exchange rate.
 They are also currently under a lot of work which mean that they can buy thing in higher bulk and get greater discount.
 As they are a family company and since the delay are higher than before, I highly doubt that hey hired someone else.
  
 Let's take the introductory price and believe that they just break even for the cost.
 At the highest point in June, you could had 3.81 zlotty per usd according to xe.com.
 -> 3.81 x 499$ = 1901 zloty per Elise.
  
 Starting June 21, the price went up to 649, as announced. The exchange rate was 3.68
 -> 3.68 x 649 = 2388,32 zlotty per Elise
  
 As of 13th of January, price was still 649. (I know for a fact because I made my order back then). The exchange rate was 4.00
 -> 4.00 x 649 = 2596 zlotty per Elise
  
 So before changing the price, as a strictly financial POV, they already had more zloty than before and probably better deal than before because they could buy higher quantity of component.
 Their margin were actually going up.
  
 e/ There has been a little more than 7 weeks before my order and my shipping notice (and I do mean notice, not date of reception). I made my order after their vacation.
 This comfort me in saying that they didn't hire someone else.
  
 e2/ And I wasn't asking for a PR to go to head-fi to announce the price change, I just expect to see something about it in the news section of their website.
 Something along the line of "From now on, the prices for the following products are going to be..." would have been more than enough for me.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi pctazhp, 

Glad to know you're finally settled down with 6 x EL3N. I'm running FDD20 with Chatham 6AS7G, and EL3N with 5998 as my end game combos. I second H1 for giving caution ⚠ to avoid external heating for novice. This killed the joy of safe tube rolling. 9A+ transformers are probably bigger than the one inside Elise. Some people here have a lot of ground and EMI to deal with, running external heating and fixing noise issues is probably too much for us newbies. 

Conniflyer is right, we're doing thousands of dollars worth R&D for Feliks for free, not to mention their sale is boosted 



pctazhp said:


> Hi LR)) I've missed seeing you here. I too tried a lot of tubes, both for power and drivers. I did use external power for the FDD20s. I have finally settled on the 6 X EL3N combination and feel no need to do anything other than listen and enjoy - and safely I might add. H1's post on the dangers of fooling around with external power certainly caught my attention. I'm too much of a klutz to feel I can safely turn my desktop into an experimental lab)))
> 
> Hope you are doing well)))




It's such a bottleneck aqsw, 5998 is highly regarded tube among several other headphone amps. It did not work for me with 6N7G tubes. I'm still holding on to it though. FDD20 is my end game, looks and feels good, if you know what I mean Hehe 

Don't worry, some more combo are coming soon that you can always try  

Remember guys, my ground is coming from the sky, I'm at risk of running into thousands of volts into Elise and into my head. 

 to all! 
LR 



aqsw said:


> I spent way too much money on the tube of the minute. TS 5998s and  Mazdas were tubes that were highly praised that I got rid of (and lost $$) because my amp didn't like them. I have fdd20s with adapters that I no longer use, along with the ecc31.
> 
> After alot of going back and forth , I have settled with the stock Svetlana Powers or 6080 Thomson Powers and 2 El3ns. No more rolling for me.
> I'm just going to enjoy the music from this gem of an amp.
> ...


----------



## Suuup

I really can't stress this enough. There is nothing dangerous about 6V or 12V transformers. Fact.


----------



## serman005

suuup said:


> I really can't stress this enough. There is nothing dangerous about 6V or 12V transformers. Fact.


 

 Honestly didn't know that.


----------



## WB2016

vince741 said:


> This is not a debate, at least for me, of whether the Elise is worth the extra dollar
> It was never about the amount of money that I had this debate, but if you want to go the route of market, here it goes:
> 
> Actually Poland use the zloty (not euro) and if you purchase a Feliks Audio product in Europe, you still pay them in dollar.
> ...


 
 Ciao,
  
 good post and good point on the zlotty, should have remembered that there are a  few countries in the EU that kept their currencies even if you pay with Euros everywhere. Some say Americans are ignorant of Europe
  
 It probably all comes down to supply and demand. Knowing people who have small businesses and having owned one myself you tend to low ball the price to get more product out and more word of mouth over making a return. Sometimes even a loss at first. I still have a feeling they might hire someone to take care of backlogs, but I could be wrong. It is a good sign though for the health of a business and a product to see it climb up in price. Also sends the message, better now before it goes up in price
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## vince741




----------



## Suuup

New proposal: This thread remains as it is, and the ones who want a thread free of external heating can go make a new thread. Best of both worlds?
  
 Now for something else:
  

  
 A bit messy right now, but there is sound! Elise is still standing (no explosions).


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> New proposal: This thread remains as it is, and the ones who want a thread free of external heating can go make a new thread. Best of both worlds?


 
 Excatly my proposal  for a "Feliks Audio Elise : new new appeased thread" 
 Without frightening Franken Elise post !


----------



## mordy

Hope I am not offending anyone with what I call the "Manhattan Skyline Elise". The Manhattan skyline is actually in the background photo.
 The tubes used draw a total of 9.8A.
  
 2 x 6BL7 + 2 x 6AS7G + 2 x EL3N.
  
  





  
 The Elise is ice cold. The PC PS is cold. The heat sinks on the 15A voltage regulator are getting quite warm.
  
 What about the sound? Not bad, great detail with a lot of power in the bass and treble, but not refined and sweet. Reminds me of the 70's muscle cars - a lot of power but a so-so ride and handling.The Elise sounded better with the EL3N and either Chatham 6AS7G or 2 x 6BL7 as powers.
  
 Just wanted to show the possibilities available.....
  
 Now about transformers etc. I did a search for accidents with injuries from home tube amps but could not find any accounts. There are a few incidents reported with old high powered commercial guitar tube amplifiers, but only shocks reported and no injuries.
  
 It seems quite safe to use external power - you just have to use common sense and shut off everything when changing tubes etc.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> I really can't stress this enough. There is nothing dangerous about 6V or 12V transformers. Fact.


 
  
 Except the primary voltage.


----------



## pctazhp

I know almost nothing about electricity. But I suspect the question of safety is far more complicated than has been suggested here. And there may be a big difference between DC (which was being used for external power here until very recently) and AC coming from external transformers:
  
 http://www.bassengineering.com/e_effect.htm


----------



## vince741

Should we put a disclaimer to not touch tubes when the Elise is on too?


----------



## pctazhp

vince741 said:


> Should we put a disclaimer to not touch tubes when the Elise is on too?


 
 If people start arguing that no harm can come from touching tubes while the amp is on, I think that would be an excellent suggestion.


----------



## aqsw

Just picked up my new dac. Hooked it up on coax only. Listened to one album of Eric Bogle. All I can say is Im very impressed. It will only sound better when I get it to 24/192 with the computer.

My Elise is ice cold. At 1 oclock it is too loud. No distortion at all, even at max volume.

And it looks so good too.


----------



## aqsw

I was listening all day at my office.
Tidal to Hegel HD12 to Cavalli LC to Oppo Pm3s. (Fully balanced)

This unit Tidal to Space Tech Super Dac to Felix Elise to Ether Cs. (Single ended) kills the office unit. But, it should!:The Ethers are much better phones.


----------



## Oskari

Congrats on the new dac, aqsw!


----------



## aqsw

oskari said:


> Congrats on the new dac, aqsw!




Thank you, Im done now for headfi purchases until next year (balanced Elise). 

Now I have to start paying off a car I bought yesterday. Going through a mid life crisis at 62?


----------



## Suuup

Russian battleships are afloat.


----------



## Suuup




----------



## Oskari

aqsw said:


> Now I have to start paying off a car I bought yesterday. Going through a mid life crisis at 62?


 
  





  I just bought a bottle of single malt yesterday. [Thanks for the suggestion, Mordy!]
  
 Incidentally, I take a little cruise on the Baltic and there's a burst of meta-discussion here… I haven't formed any strong opinions. Yet.


----------



## vince741

Speaking of people not yet involved, UntilThen has not spoken either.
Is he on vacation (or sick )?


----------



## aqsw

I dont really want to get involved, but I have tried external PS., fdd20s etc. 
I really have no problem with the thread where it lead me.
I'm very happy with my system at this moment , and Im using stock powers. Keep your 5998s and double adapters.
I have no problem with the talk of adapters and power supplies and wierd tubes.

I'm not changing anymore. My Elise is cold, no external ps, and I'm so happy with the sound of my system right now. 
I enjoy the tube, adapter, and power supply posts though.

Cheers to all the Lucky ones. We really are!


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Hope you enjoy the Oban - at least cheaper than a new car lol.....
  
 Hi aqsw,
  
 Happy to hear that you are enjoying your Elise - I remember that you had a lot of problems with hum in the past. I had my share of hum problems as well. At this time I do not have any hum problems for practical purposes, using the EL3N as drivers.
  
 Hi pct,
  
 I think that I remember that one of your favorite combinations was EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. I tried this combination now and it is quite nice. In direct comparison with dual 6BL7 tubes I still prefer the BL over the Chathams; more impact, detail and instrument separation.
  
 At this time it is my favorite set-up. It could be that 6 x EL3N sounds better but I am reluctant to spend over $200 to find out. I must say that I admire you for finding the best performing tubes in such a short time and not going through all the trial and error process that I went through.
  
 On the other hand, part of the charm of the trip to the best sound is the travel itself, at least for me.
  
 Suuup,
 Wonder how the 6C33C tubes sound? Do you need to put your air conditioner on lol?


----------



## JazzVinyl

@Lord Raven - you mentioned FDD20/Chatham's, I agree, one of the finest sounding tube combos for this amp. *Enjoy!*

Cheers to all the *LUCKY* ones!!





.


----------



## aqsw

I thought mentioning Eric Bogle might get UntilThen back?
I miss him!!


----------



## aqsw

Not sure if appropiate, but pm me if anybody wants to buy a full fdd20/31 setup. I won't use it again. Includes everything. Both tubes, adapters, power supply, and ground wire (if needed). Will give a great deal to fellow Elise owner!


----------



## inthere

My Elise isn't quite up to driving my Ether C's. I'm looking for more power. 
  
  I bought two of these adapters: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201486463405?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  But I don't know what tubes to put in them. I'm looking at C3g's, ECC31's, and 6A6's.
  
  Does anyone have a link to C3g adapters?


----------



## aqsw

inthere said:


> My Elise isn't quite up to driving my Ether C's. I'm looking for more power.
> 
> I bought two of these adapters: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201486463405?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


Believe me, Your Elise drives Ethers easily. The Ethers are a little too efficient.
I run Ether Cs with with stock or 6080 powers, and El3n drivers.


----------



## inthere

Maybe it drives the Ethers C's easily, but it's just not loud enough for me. Is there a solution for this?
  
  
 I can turn the volume to 1:00 and it starts distorting. At 1 it's still not loud enough.


----------



## hpamdr

inthere said:


> Maybe it drives the Ethers C's easily, but it's just not loud enough for me. Is there a solution for this?
> 
> 
> I can turn the volume to 1:00 and it starts distorting. At 1 it's still not loud enough.


 

 Which source and tube do you use ?


----------



## inthere

I use several DACs and stock tubes. DACs I've used: Schiit Modi, Audioquest Dragonfly, Metric Halo ULN-8, Prism Orpheus, Prism Lyra 2, Chord Mojo, Aune T1 mk II, Audeze Deckard, Creative E5, HiFiMan EF2A, Fiio X3, and X5.


----------



## Suuup

Ether C is 23 ohm. Elise runs 32-600 ohm headphones. I don't think you'll ever get too great results with it.
  
 If you still want to try, I'd go for some more POWER. If you're not afraid of some DIY, look into running 4x or 6x power tubes instead of only 2. 
  
 You also might want to look at C3g as drivers, as they have a very high amplification factor.


----------



## hpamdr

I doubt that all these dacs have the same result with the Else for distorsion level.
 Do you always use 100% volume on DAC ?
  
 First advise is to find the dac that fit best with your Headphone and Elise.
 You can also add an ampedance adapter like the one used for ER4-pt adding 70 to 100Ohms.
  
 To add a bit of power you can use 5998 tube on output or try 6N7GT / ECC31 tube with adapter in driver side. To give a try you can get some russian tube 6H7C for few $.
  
 I also do not listen to insane level so i never encountered this issue.


----------



## inthere

suuup said:


> Ether C is 23 ohm. Elise runs 32-600 ohm headphones. I don't think you'll ever get too great results with it.
> 
> If you still want to try, I'd go for some more POWER. If you're not afraid of some DIY, look into running 4x or 6x power tubes instead of only 2.
> 
> You also might want to look at C3g as drivers, as they have a very high amplification factor.


 
 I have over 40 headphones, I get this result with all of them. 
  
 Where can I find an adapter for C3G tubes?


hpamdr said:


> I doubt that all these dacs have the same result with the Else for distorsion level.
> Do you always use 100% volume on DAC ?
> 
> First advise is to find the dac that fit best with your Headphone and Elise.
> ...


 

 All DACs have the same result. I never adjust volume on my DACs. I listen at "insane" levels so I encounter this issue all the time.


----------



## Suuup

inthere said:


> I have over 40 headphones, I get this result with all of them.
> 
> Where can I find an adapter for C3G tubes?
> 
> All DACs have the same result. I never adjust volume on my DACs. I listen at "insane" levels so I encounter this issue all the time.


 
 Oh wow. That is interesting. Have any high-impedance headphones?
  
Link for adapter
  
 What are your results with stock tubes?


----------



## inthere

suuup said:


> Oh wow. That is interesting. Have any high-impedance headphones?
> 
> Link for adapter
> 
> What are your results with stock tubes?


 
  
  All results are with stock tubes. I don't think I have any high impedance cans. Highest is probably the Alpha Dog at 98ohms.


----------



## hpamdr

inthere said:


> I have over 40 headphones, I get this result with all of them.
> 
> Where can I find an adapter for C3G tubes?
> 
> All DACs have the same result. I never adjust volume on my DACs. I listen at "insane" levels so I encounter this issue all the time.


 

Do you have medium to high Z cans ?
  
 You should ask directly Feliks Audio if adapting an impedance transformer like the VDV-600-32-HPH made by trafco ( http://www.trafco.rs/tubeaudio-en.php  ) can helps. You will get the most advised  answer. 
  
 At the end, if you do not have enough power and no matchin cans, the Elise is not for you ! I'm pretty sure you will get no issue selling it..
  
 You should use a speaker amp like suggested in the HE-6 thread,  using a robinete box or commercial equivalent.


----------



## Suuup

inthere said:


> All results are with stock tubes. I don't think I have any high impedance cans. Highest is probably the Alpha Dog at 98ohms.


 
 Elise is an OTL. OTL works best with high impedance headphones. With enough power though, you can use OTLs for speakers even, so it should be possible. Take a look at this. It's a schematic for an OTL speaker amp using 2x 6C33C per channel. I've just made the 6C33C work in my Elise. Can't comment on the sound compared to other tubes yet, but it's not bad. 
  
 Elise has the potential to be powerful enough. Still don't know how good results you'll really get with low impedance cans, but if you want, we can try. 
  
 No Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic at all? High-impedance dynamic headphones are the best match for OTL tube amps.


----------



## inthere

Had HD650's and HD600's broke them, HD800's and I sold them, I definitely think impedance is the problem, but hpamdr is not having a problem driving his Elise, he just listens at lower levels. Thanks for the help!


----------



## vince741

If it's with all your headphones, I suggest that you change your tubes or try to clean the pin.


----------



## vince741

inthere said:


> My Elise isn't quite up to driving my Ether C's. I'm looking for more power.
> 
> I bought two of these adapters: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201486463405?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 

 You may have taken the wrong one imo, this one are more for the driver seat.
 UntilThen tried this one with his HE560 (planar like the Ether) and he didn't had enough power and he had distortion if I remember.
 But when he went to double EL3N per power socket, he was distortion free.
  
 Imo the single seems to be fine for regular headphone but not planar.
  
 e/


untilthen said:


> Word of caution. Running it at 4xEL3N has distortion on my HE560. That went away with 6xEL3N. I don't know how it will behave with the Ether.


 

 (4xEL3N as 2 for power, 2 for driver and 6 as 4 for power, 2 for driver).
  
 e2/ For the c3g adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-or-Woo-WA5-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144
 It's as well for the driver position but I don't remember if it paired well with planar.


----------



## Lord Raven

Turn the gain from your DAC going to Elise low. If it's line-out with specific gain then you might want to change a DAC. My Geek changes the volume level on its line-out when I turn down the volume knob. This help me some my problem. I can run Geek at 100% volume either for several combos but when I hear distortion on few tubes like Mazda 6N7G and Visseaux 6N7G, I turn the gain down. That's probably clipping of signal. I had 32 Ohm cans, ran them for several months without a problem. 



inthere said:


> I use several DACs and stock tubes. DACs I've used: Schiit Modi, Audioquest Dragonfly, Metric Halo ULN-8, Prism Orpheus, Prism Lyra 2, Chord Mojo, Aune T1 mk II, Audeze Deckard, Creative E5, HiFiMan EF2A, Fiio X3, and X5.


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hope I am not offending anyone with what I call the "Manhattan Skyline Elise". The Manhattan skyline is actually in the background photo.
> 
> 
> The tubes used draw a total of 9.8A.
> ...



 



Youssers that might get you banned from this board in the near future That is impressive though, but for me personally and any company that might come over the visual negative impact would outpace the likely sonic benefits. That said it does satisfy the experimenter in me. 

My 2 cents to the whole splitting of the board thing is this. I came to the Elise, because it is beautiful, a bargain, sounds great but also because it has flexibility.

 It is the Rega RP3 of headphone amps. You will be completely satisfied if you just stick to the basic setup and for the price it is very very difficult to beat, however you can add and change things that will have it approach high end (also in cost). That is its charm, well designed within its parameters with the flexibilti to do a lot of things and seemingly inspire people and do a first serious jump noone will regret.

The same holds true for the Elise, it is not the ultimate tuberolling amp, it is not the ultimate headphone amp, it is not even balanced, but hell it pretty much checks all the boxes for anyone looking at something serious that will give them pleasure for a long time with lots of options and allow you to go crazy but then quickly change it back to stock configuration or something "suitable" should guests arrive. This should be reflected in the board imo.

It might be a good idea to have people post a disclaimer as to how long they have a tube running, burn in time, etc. and maybe every once in a while individuals will give a "as things stand now", and maybe someone should put 10 dollars towards making the skyline look like new york and not like a mad scientists lair, but then again those are engineers hearts beating and not marketing hearts

Anyway some more infos and a disclaimer for those posting remembering that outsiders read this too is all that is needed imo.

Cheers
WB


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> I think that I remember that one of your favorite combinations was EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. I tried this combination now and it is quite nice. In direct comparison with dual 6BL7 tubes I still prefer the BL over the Chathams; more impact, detail and instrument separation.
> 
> ...


 
 Mordy. I agree the EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G is a great combination. I could easily live with it as my "end game". But for me the 6 X EL3N combination just sounds better. Perhaps a little less sparkle in the highs, but overall more natural. I understand the reluctance to spend more just to find out how you like the 6 X EL3Ns. Unfortunately we can't order tubes from Amazon with a 30 day return privilege. I have the same reluctance when it comes to trying dual or even triple 6BL7s.


----------



## Oskari

inthere said:


> I bought two of these adapters: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201486463405?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> But I don't know what tubes to put in them.


 
  
 Those adapters are for EL3N tubes, which you can get here, for example:
  
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/nostubes/nos-tubes-main-page.htm


----------



## Suuup

oskari said:


> Except the primary voltage.


 
 Except the primary voltage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This really shouldn't be a problem though.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Just picked up my new dac. Hooked it up on coax only. Listened to one album of Eric Bogle. All I can say is Im very impressed. It will only sound better when I get it to 24/192 with the computer.
> 
> My Elise is ice cold. At 1 oclock it is too loud. No distortion at all, even at max volume.
> 
> And it looks so good too.


 
  
 What can one say aq - but - *WOW!!*   ....lucky you...





....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> Hope you enjoy the Oban - at least cheaper than a new car lol.....


 
  
 It's quite tasty. You can't generally get it here. I've only seen it in one bar.


----------



## mordy

Hi WB 2016,
  
 I want to address some of your concerns. The reason I put the photo behind the Elise is for aesthetical purposes - I don't want people to see the clutter in my room lol. As for the Elise, as long as it sounds great, I am not concerned how it looks. As mentioned before, when I am listening I have the amp out of my sight line.
  
 I am always concerned about writing truthfully. The picture was taken when I went on a hike climbing a mountain three months ago, on a hazy late fall day. I was amazed that I could make out the silhouette of Manhattan from the top, and took a picture with my Canon HS600 HS camera, using 72x digital zoom. Coming home, I saw that the picture looked very artistic with the blue haze. I cropped out some tree branches and got a nice picture looking like a water color painting.
  
 Using the 6AS7 and 6BL7 as power tubes I was hoping to combine the best qualities of both. This did not pan out. Even though the sound had a lot of impact in the bass and and a lot of treble energy, the sound was harsh and metallic, lacking the sweetness of 4 x BL or Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 Re the EL3N and Chatham tubes, they have much more than 100 hours on them. The 6BL7 tubes I got used, and they sound like the other GE/TS BL tubes I have that have been burned in, so I don't think that I got a "preliminary" impression of the sound.  I let this combo run for maybe 3 hours before I concluded that I like the 4 x 6BL4 much better.
  
 What I really would like to hear from others is a comparison between 4 x GE/TS 6BL7 and 4 x EL3N as power tubes, using EL3N as driver tubes as well. Pct writes that 6 x EL3N sounds more natural than EL3N/Chatham 6AS7.
  
 IMHO EL3N + 4 x 6BL7 sound better than the EL3N/Chathams with better detail, impact and instrument separation.
  
 If somebody wants to try the 4 x BL tubes, it does not have to be an expensive proposition. Mrs Xu Ling makes a budget dual octal adapter without the acrylic plates, for around $38/pair shipped. A quad of GE/TS mid to late 50's tubes (the best ones IMHO) should not cost more than one EL3N. Then, of course, you need external power for the drivers.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB 2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


No you put the picture behind to give it such a contrast to be so ugly it becomes a work of art. Like Berlin's architecture Art nouveau with Communist Nice pic by the way. 

The EL3Ns are supposed to be burned in after about 200 hours and will continue to improve and keep there sweetspot for close to 10,000 hrs, the EL3Ns as all EL are used for this purpose in recording. 

The 4 or even idea of 6 power tubes parallel is keeping the pentodes run as triode in the low usage range where they really shine. Cannot tell you anything about 4xGBL7 or the sound yet. 

Cheers


----------



## vince741

The eagle has landed.


----------



## hpamdr

vince741 said:


> The eagle has landed.


 
  




 I hope you like it already, plug the mojo and the HD800 and let's go ! _(roule ma poule)_


----------



## vince741

The mojo is an emergency device, like when I go to see my family. It's unlikely that it will touch the Elise haha.
 So my equipment will be: Audio GD Reference 5 -> Elise -> HD800 (Toxic Cables BW22)
 For my quick listen I can just say:
 EL3N/GE 6AS7GA: Not my cup of tea. Smoother than a pebble (rock) and I don't mean that in a good way. Too polish and the voice sound unnatural to me.
 EL3N/5998; Way more to my liking. I can see why people might find this combo tiring but it's highly engaging and musical with good sense of tone. I'll let the Elise burn with them.
  
 Won't be able to test the TungSol 6080, Feliks Audio didn't include an adapter.
 Foton 6N8S will come next week to contrast EL3N, as per hpamdr suggestion
  
 e/ Will be able to try the TungSol 6080. Turns out the latest revision of Elise doesn't need adapter for 6080. It's plug and play.


----------



## connieflyer

When I purchased my Elise, not here yet, the website advertised an adapter for 6080's I already have the tubes, so they had better still include the adapter. Cheap for them to include, and they advertise it. I can see it if they ran out and will get one to you soon, if not let us know.  If they are cutting back, or going back on their word, I will cancel.  Can't stand manufactures that don't comply with their own proposal.


----------



## hpamdr

> Won't be able to test the TungSol 6080, Feliks Audio didn't include an adapter.
> Foton 6N8S will come next week to contrast EL3N, as per hpamdr suggestion


 
 You do not need any adapter to use 6080, the adapter was needed at the beg when tube socket are deeper on the chassis and large base of the 6080 do not go inside.
 With new Elise it is plug and play....


----------



## connieflyer

I was not aware of that good to know


----------



## vince741

connieflyer said:


> When I purchased my Elise, not here yet, the website advertised an adapter for 6080's I already have the tubes, so they had better still include the adapter. Cheap for them to include, and they advertise it. I can see it if they ran out and will get one to you soon, if not let us know.  If they are cutting back, or going back on their word, I will cancel.  Can't stand manufactures that don't comply with their own proposal.


 
  
 I bought the Elise without any tubes from Feliks Audio.
 My assumption is that they thought I didn't want the tubes and the adapter. I don't think it was on purpose.


----------



## vince741

hpamdr said:


> You do not need any adapter to use 6080, the adapter was needed at the beg when tube socket are deeper on the chassis and large base of the 6080 do not go inside.
> With new Elise it is plug and play....


 

 Correct and got a very fast confirmation from Feliks Audio.
  
 "Vincent
 In the latest revision of Elise no adapters for 6080 is needed any more, they just fit straight from the box.
 Regards
 Lukasz"


----------



## connieflyer

Good to hear that, their website still has old info.......
Box content 
Beautifully hand-crafted Tube Amp
1 pair of driver tubes
1 pair of power tubes
Dedicated tube adapter for 6080
AC cord
User Manual
Warranty Card
  
 So, still looking forward to the new amp.


----------



## vince741

Elise with the HD600 is such a treat.


----------



## hpamdr

vince741 said:


> Elise with the HD600 is such a treat.


 
 HD600 is a "perfect" match for OTL specially with 5998 if you like warm sound. Keep in mind that during burning, form day to day Elise will give you more...
  
 Even if you do not like T1 as much as your toxic HD800, try it with Elise just once... and once more...


----------



## vince741

Things are going out of control lately.
 Last week I received my cables for my HD800.
 Yesterday, I received the Elise.
 Today, I'll be auditioning a Cavalli Liquid Gold.
 Next week, I'll probably receive my SuperDupont.


----------



## WB2016

vince741 said:


> Things are going out of control lately.
> 
> 
> Last week I received my cables for my HD800.
> ...



 


What is a SuperDupont, you know that is a super famous comic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdupont
are you getting some originals???

Yeah when it rains it pours, but sometimes that can be a good thing. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## vince741

It's a diy mod by Sorrodje to correct some of the flaw of the HD800.
 You can find some comparison of a tweaked HD800 and a HD800s on innerfidelity.
  
 And yes, Sorrodje named it after Gotlib's comic


----------



## hpamdr

vince741 said:


> And yes, Sorrodje named it after Gotlib's comic


 
 French touch... if it was cosmetic it could have ben nammed _Jacky's mod_


----------



## Liu Junyuan

.


----------



## Suuup

A few impressions from the 6C33C. 

Bass is different from what I'm used to. Very controlled. Not tight per se. It's more of a full sound, but it's not bloated at all like a lot of 'full' bass is. Not sure what kind of bass presentation I prefer. Usually I'll say tight, but this is pretty good too. Guess I still prefer tight compared to this 'full' sound. Hmm. There's a small roll-off in the deep bass region. It's still there, but slightly recessed, for good or worse. Upper bass is VERY good. This is very tight and controlled. 
Mids are where these Russian battleships mark their territory. Very clean and with a lot of power. 

Separation and soundstage are both good. Nothing that makes me lose my jaw, but I don't feel anything is lacking in this regard. 

IMPACT is BIG. Every pick on the guitar strings are felt. 

This is after about 10 hours of listening.


----------



## Suuup

Oh man, I just won an auction for 4 Mazda 6N7G for 27€ + 9€ shipping.


----------



## connieflyer

Nicely done, glad you have not abandoned this thread, thought for awhile the nay sayers were going to split the thread, all they have to do is look at the page count of the "old Elise" page compared to this one, and it should be obvious which is more popular. Good catch on the Mazda's "should" be, "YMMV" a good combination.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Question for Suuup...

I assume you made your own adapters for the 6C33C's?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Oh man, I just won an auction for 4 Mazda 6N7G for 27€ + 9€ shipping.




Quite a deal on the (4) Mazda's 6N7G's!

I never bought any Mazda's, as I figured they were too close to the Visseauz 6N7G's already owned.

You have the Visseaux and the Fivre as well as Mazda's? Do they sound very similar to one another?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Quite a deal on the (4) Mazda's 6N7G's!
> 
> I never bought any Mazda's, as I figured they were too close to the Visseauz 6N7G's already owned.
> 
> You have the Visseaux and the Fivre as well as Mazda's? Do they sound very similar to one another?



Haven't gotten the Mazdas yet. My Fivre and Visseaux don't sound the same. My Fivre is the brown base type. Maybe the horned Fivre is more like the Visseaux and Mazda?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Haven't gotten the Mazdas yet. My Fivre and Visseaux don't sound the same. My Fivre is the brown base type. Maybe the horned Fivre is more like the Visseaux and Mazda?




The Fivre brown bases are the ones that I would love to hear, too. Have a search active for them...they not seen very often.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am still sold on multi 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket (external heat is worth it).

(6) 6BL7's and Visseaux 6N7G's:


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Gorgeous picture!
  
 Bet you don't need any extra heating in that room lol.....
  
 At the present my favorite combination is a pair EL3N as drivers and 4 x 6BL7 as power tubes (GE/TS GT and GTA, a pair of each.) As far as I know, there are no European manufacturers of the 6BL7 tube or equivalent.
  
 One Tung Sol tube has the telltale GE sandblasted dots on the glass, so I assume that it was made by GE and not Tung Sol. Perhaps there were only three US manufacturers of the 6BL7 - GE, Sylvania and RCA.
  
 Hi Suuup,
  
 When I tried the Chatham 6AS7 together with the 6BL7 as power tubes, the magic disappeared. There was a lot of impact and energy in the bass and treble, but a metallic quality to the sound. Wonder if what you are describing with the 6C33C is a similar impression.....
  
 Hi UT,
  
 Perhaps you would be able to comment on the difference in sound between 4 x EL3N and 4 x 6BL7 as power tubes, with the EL3N as drivers? As far as I know, you are the only one who has these combinations at the present.
  
 We all miss your contributions to this thread and wish you would come back!
  
 All the best!


----------



## Suuup

Agree with Mordy, we miss you UntilThen


----------



## Suuup

Double post.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Oh man, I just won an auction for 4 Mazda 6N7G for 27€ + 9€ shipping.




Congratulations, I accidently broke one of my Mazda tubes :/ what a sad day in my life. First time it happened. But I'm happy for you.


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,





 I know the feeling - by mistake I broke two tubes so far (not bad in 6 years of tube rolling lol).
  
 One was a Chatham 6AS7G that I had just taken of picture of - it rolled off my desk when I accidentally knocked it off my desk when I turned my swiveling listening chair. The second tube was a 6BL7 that fell out of the bubble wrap I had it in...
  
 There is a site called JacMusic from a German tube seller. He has a picture there of a tube that failed after 79 years - the owner saved it in a little wooden coffin....
  




  
 This site has stunning pictures of custom tube set-ups. Take a look!
  
 http://www.jacmusic.com/  After clicking on this link, click on nice custom projects.


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy,
  
 The exact same thing happened with me, I took a picture of my shiny Mazda 6N7G and by mistake my camera tripod hit the table it was standing on, it rolled off the table right in front of my eyes and all I could hear was a huge explosion. I clapped once!
  
 I need a single Mazda tube, if anyone is willing to help me out in this situation :/
  
 LR


----------



## UntilThen

Hey guys. Who rub the lamp? This Genie has been away 'sleeping' - listening to music with Elise and T1, HE560 and HD650. You have 3 wishes. Choose wisely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
Thanks @aqsw for Eric Bogle. Kind of like his singing and he's living in Adelaide !!! Good to hear you're happy with your new tube DAC and Elise with EL3N and Svetlana 6H13C or Mullard 6080 and that your Ether-C sounds good with that combo. As long as it doesn't hum !!!
  
 Well @mordy I'm done giving impressions on tubes. I have not come across any tubes that I didn't like with Elise. Well maybe the 1635 but that's an odd ball. I don't want to rain on anybody's parade. If you've found a combination that appeals to you very much, then well done and enjoy it. 
  
 As for @inthere, the best advice for tubes pairing on Elise for Ether-C would be from @aqsw. He seems to like his tubes combination. I want to add that C3G will not solve your problem (with some power tubes) with planar magnetics. You're better off trying 6SN7 and 6AS7 or their variants. Here's what I found.
  
 C3G with 4x6BL7 with HE560 cause distortion.
  
 C3G with 4xEL3N with HE560 cause distortion.
  
 C3G with 6AS7G, 5998, 6080 works fine with HE560. C3G and 5998 is incredibly good.
  
 Likewise 6N7G, 6SN7, FDD20, ECC31, 7N7 drivers with 6AS7G, 5998, 6080 powers, works fine with HE560.
  
 EL3N as drivers with any power tubes including 4xEL3N, 5998, 6AS7G, 6080, 6BL7 works fine with HE560.
  
 Just some of the combinations I found that works or doesn't work with my planar magnetic HE560. Generally HE560 works well with Elise and sounds amazing. Wish I have the Ether-C to test. I also agree with opinions expressed by quite a few here that generally Elise works best with dynamic high impedance headphones. So the favorites, HD800, T1, HD6xx, DT770, DT880, DT990 are a natural fit for Elise. Having said that, I've tried a few low impedance headphones like Fostex th-x00 (25 ohms), Sennheiser Momentum (18 ohms), AKG 702 (62 ohms) with Elise and they work fine.
  
 Where's @B-60? Where's your Elise? !!
  
 Lastly I bought Holst the Planets CD yesterday and was enjoying it. So here's a track for you. Love the part at 3:00 of the track.
  

  
 ps... @Liu Junyuan  @DecentLevi @mordy @Suuup ... thanks for the kind words and sentiments. And @vince1234 I ain't sick, just moving the lawn. Hope you're enjoying Elise with EL3N and 5998? Can't go wrong there. So HD600 sounds good with Elise? How about the other headphones? HD800?


----------



## UntilThen

How's this for organized mess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just gone back to FDD20 and 5998. It's been a looooong time since I pull out the cables again but yeah I can see why I was so besotted with this combo in the past. This works magic with the planar magnetic HE560. Sorry it didn't work for some of you.


----------



## aqsw

Welcome back, UT


----------



## mordy

Welcome back UT!
  
 Don't want to be a nag or take you away from the pleasures of listening to music, but...
  
 Before I spend megabucks on 4 x  EL3N and two sets of EL3N dual adapters, I would really like to know if this combination is so much superior to EL3N + 4 x 6BL7. Only asking about your personal opinion...
  
 The reason I ask you is because I don't know anybody who has the tubes and adapters to compare.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Welcome back UT!
> 
> Don't want to be a nag or take you away from the pleasures of listening to music, but...
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry I was replying and then it started raining heavily. So I have to send my wife to work, being mindful of the wet roads and everyone's in a hurry. It's peak morning traffic !!!
  
 Alright I'm back now, showered and coffee by my side. 
  
 Edit:-
  
 This is my opinion so please take it with a grain of salt. 
  
 I can't try 2xEL3N and 4x6BL7 without external power supply. That is a total of 7.8A, enough to give Elise more than a sun tan.
  
 The closest I can get to that is 2xEL3N and 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7. That is 6A. Well within comfort zone. I've listened to this combo many times before and am listening to it now. I like this tone. Wide soundstage, details, clarity, bass impact and there's this BIG sound. Listening to 'Another Break in the Wall Pt 2' by Pink Floyd. Love it. This is exciting sound.
  
 2xEL3N and 4xEL3N is more uniform in the tonal range. Similar wide soundstage, details, clarity, bass impact and the BIG sound is quite amazing. Vastly superior to the above combo? I wouldn't put it that way. It's different but I do prefer this combo.
  
 Is it worth your spending to get the 6xEL3N? If it's my decision and now that I have heard it, an emphatic yes. No external power supply required and cool as a cucumber. However I wouldn't know exactly how your 2xEL3N and 4x6BL7 will turn out. It could be just as exciting.
  
 Are these the only combinations worth talking about? Definitely not. I'll be compiling a list of my favorite combinations soon. The bottom line is, Elise sounds very good with a great selection of tubes. I even enthused on what life would be with some choice 6SN7 and 6AS7 on Elise. I think it will be pretty amazing. Plus you have a clean look and no adapters required. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 ps.. the Valvo C3G/s from @arie123 certainly looks exotic. Truly we have so many good sounding tubes for Elise, you'll be more than satisfied.
  

  
 Happy listening and where's my mon ami @hypnos1 ?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Thanks for your comments. Sorry, did not remember that you did not have the external PS. I use the the external PS for the 4 x BL power tubes (and use EL3N as drivers), and the amp is cool as a cucumber.
  
 Comparing 2 x BL to 4 x BL there is a huge difference in sound. I did compare my Chatham 6AS7G to 4 x 6BL7, and IMHO the 4 x 6BL7 sound better with more detail, instrument separation and impact and energy in the bass and treble.
  
 Regarding the C3g tubes, the Valvo tubes may have been made by Siemens or Lorenz - not sure. There are also Telefunken C3g tubes, but again, I don't know if they made them or if they are rebranded Siemens or Lorenz.
  
 JV has been trying different driver tube combinations with 6 x 6BL7 as powers. It seems that the sound quality does not change so much from 4 x BL to 6 x BL in the Elise, but having more power enables certain drivers to perform better with 6 vs 4 BL power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy,
  
 The important thing is that you've found a combination that sounds great to you. We're all different as individuals and it's our brains rather than just ears that sense the sonic excitement.
  
 I'm still on 2xEL3N and 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7. Considering how little this combo cost and how much it rank up in my scale, I have to smile at what  I can get out of Elise. Similarly I have tried 2xEL3N with 4x6SN7 and it's very good too.
  
 Even HD650 sounds good with the above combos.
  
 Enjoy. We're getting very good sound now. It's more of a headphone rolling for me now.
  
 Cheers
 .


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Can't help it, but I would like more people to try 4 x 6BL7 because IMHO this set-up has something very special to offer. It seems to me that you have tubes that can be used with 4 x BL without an external power supply.
  
 If you use the two C3g tubes as drivers, you end up with 6.74A which is within the parameters of the Elise.
  
 If you use the 20/31 combo as drivers, you already have the 12V power supply for the FDD20, leaving you with one ECC31. This tube draws 1A. The total is 7A which may be acceptable as well.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Can't help it, but I would like more people to try 4 x 6BL7 because IMHO this set-up has something very special to offer. It seems to me that you have tubes that can be used with 4 x BL without an external power supply.
> 
> ...


 

 I have tried 4x6BL7 with various drivers. You probably missed my posts much earlier.
  
 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 - this sounded lean but has nice definition. I prefer EL3N as drivers though.
  
 2x6BQ7A and 4x6BL7 - similar to above.
  
 2x6SN7 and 4x6BL7 (7.2A) - I played 5 songs. After which I examined the base of the tube amp for colouration of the plastic. It is noticeably more tan. So I wouldn't recommend anyone to try this without external power supply.
  
 I have tried 2xFDD20 and 4x6BL7 and found it a bit overwhelming in bass but I'll visit this again. Probably didn't spend enough time with this combo. At the moment I am running 2xFDD20 and 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7 and it's sounding good. Quite enjoying this. 
  
 Don't think I'll try 2031 with 4x6BL7. I really don't want to take it any higher than 6.8A without external power supply.
  
 Finally I've tried 2xC3G with 4x6BL7. This is where I found that my HE560 distorts with this combo. It's fine with T1 or HD650 though. I need to revisit this again though.


----------



## vince741

@UT: Yep, I'm using EL3N/5998. I haven't listened to the Elise that much because my dac can feed my Elise and an other amp at the same time.
 So I plug two amps at the same time, burn the Elise on one side and listen to music with an other amp.
  
 The HD800 sounds good with the Elise. Is it the best I've heard them? No. Is it a strong contender for it's price? Definitely. Could I live with this amp "only" for my HD600/HD800? Most certainly.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I have tried 4x6BL7 with various drivers. You probably missed my posts much earlier.
> 
> 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 - this sounded lean but has nice definition. I prefer EL3N as drivers though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT.
  
 Nice to see you're keeping busy still - your poor head must be spinning, lol!  So many different combinations certainly do provide folks with plenty of choice to experiment with and find their own preferences.
  
 As you have touched on, I think we need to stress once more that certain tube combinations' results can vary *widely *from set-up to set-up - especially depending on source quality, headphones and whether using HPs or pre-amped speakers (assuming the same amp also!). And this is not even taking into consideration different preferences. This is indeed a _minefield!!_





....and one from which it is time for me take a bit of a break, lol.
  
 I wish everyone all the best in finding your own 'magic' combination...and continued HAPPY LISTENING!....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....Elise owners are indeed LUCKY ONES!....


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for all your input and research, it gives everyone a base to try different combo's, and make their own judgement.  Have not and Elise yet, still waiting, but have bought some tubes and adapters and looking forward to the journey.


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> I wish everyone all the best in finding your own 'magic' combination...and continued HAPPY LISTENING!....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Only one owner (listed at head-fi) seems to not enjoy Elise as she does not yell louder enough in his ear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I perfer personally the one that whisper on my ears with GEC6080 and 6N7GT...


----------



## UntilThen

vince741 said:


> @UT: Yep, I'm using EL3N/5998. I haven't listened to the Elise that much because my dac can feed my Elise and an other amp at the same time.
> So I plug two amps at the same time, burn the Elise on one side and listen to music with an other amp.
> 
> *The HD800 sounds good with the Elise. Is it the best I've heard them? No. Is it a strong contender for it's price? Definitely. Could I live with this amp "only" for my HD600/HD800? Most certainly.*


 

 You're a busy man with a multitude of audio gear. Thanks for the short and sweet assessments. You sound like me. I ask the questions and then I answer them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Having been to the meet and listened to a variety of headphones and amps, I'm of the same opinion with your assessments. 
  
 I think that in bold are the most telling statements which I agree wholeheartedly.
  
 Would be interested to hear your thoughts when you get a chance to try LCD2 with Elise.


----------



## vince741

Sadly, I won't be able to comment on the LCD2.
 I had to sell those to keep financing this crazy hobby and I thought it was better to send them to a proper home where they wouldn't be a second/third choice .


----------



## hypnos1

Yes @connieflyer, you are in for quite a journey, to be sure - as are all those other fortunate soon-to-be Elise owners!
  
 For me, it has been a fascinating, educational and highly enjoyable journey...if somewhat bumpy at times! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....and as @hpamdr and @vince741 point out (among others, lol!), the unanimous verdict is that Feliks-Audio have indeed done us all proud with their creation and provided us with the opportunity to tailor her sound to an amazing degree just through different tubes - without the need to get drastic with her innards - thank goodness!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I look forward to keeping an eye on future impressions of just what Elise means to others, whatever choices are made. I can only hope such choices lead to the kind of sonic Heaven I myself have enjoyed....and continue to do so...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!....


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> Nice to see you're keeping busy still - your poor head must be spinning, lol!  So many different combinations certainly do provide folks with plenty of choice to experiment with and find their own preferences.
> 
> ...


 
@hypnos1, I really don't want to tube roll anymore than I need to now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just want to listen to music now.... obviously with Elise and my headphones. Ok I'll swap my tubes every few days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@hpamdr  that Visseaux 6N7GT and GEC 6080 should sound music to your ears. I've no doubt it will sound good.
  
@vince741 I hope you didn't sell it cheap but you've enough headphones to enjoy.
  
 Here's a song for everyone


----------



## vince741

Sold it for the same price I got it, so it was a good deal for the buyer (600e with a forza hybrid noir cable).
 So it basically paid for the Elise.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Here's a song for everyone




This Mussorgsky guy is pretty good. 


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/G8W86beHgIY[/VIDEO]


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> This Mussorgsky guy is pretty good.


 
  
 Yeah O....this movement plus "Gates of Kiev" really show up what your system is capable of...not to mention being a great listen, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps. Especially in hi-res!!


----------



## UntilThen

Mussorgsky wrote 'Picture at an Exhibition' in memory of an artist friend. Interesting story. So I'm transitioning to classical and am listening and reading all I could on it. The period, the era, the composers, their lives, their pets, their tube amps and headphones. You get the idea. 
  
 ​This chart which I stole off the internet helps me to know the keys players and the era they are categorized in. 
  
 Oh Elise and T1 with classical music is amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps.. I also wash my T1 and HD650 ear pads and left it to dry on a column heater with a towel wrapped over it. Now they feel like new and a few degrees of SQ more ho ho ho. Try it.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow 'Pictures at an Exhibition' and 'Gates of Kiev' are indeed very good. Why is he called Modest?


----------



## UntilThen

Now for something more delicate. This is simply beautiful. Schubert - Serenade.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm mesmerized by this. I wish I was there in that hall listening to this live. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Damm Schubert died so young at 32.
  
 
  
 The orchestra is on fire. Full concentration. Look at the conductor. Total control.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to do an extended listen of the Valvo C3G/s vs the Lorenz C3G paired with 5998. See if I can detect any difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Valvo are the only brand with the 'S' on the tubes itself. According to JACMusic they seem to be a brand of their own but who knows. Initial listen of the Valvo C3G/s with 5998 is very exciting. My brain cells are dancing literally.
  
 Btw @arie123 still have some Valvos for sale. Maybe Volvos too. See him if you're interested.


----------



## connieflyer

UntilThen have you tried any Saint-Saëns yet?
  

  
  
 From the Carnival of the Animals, Yo Yo Ma is superb!
  
 And to let you know Yo You Ma plays well with everyone even Alison Krauss.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UntilThen have you tried any Saint-Saëns yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Connie !!! These looks very interesting and yes Yo Yo Ma... remembered him from Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon lol but he has works more famous than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alright I'm going to enjoy these with Valvo C3G/s and 5998 as well as 4x6BL7 ..... the latter possible only with T1. 
  
 Alison Krauss... one of my fav singers. Way to go.


----------



## connieflyer

My nephew got me started on Alison Krauss when we auditioning equipment years ago.  Could not believe I had missed hearing of her.  Made up for it after that. quite a voice.and presence.


----------



## pctazhp

WOW!!! Schubert, Yo-Yo-Ma, Mussorgsky, Saint-Saëns and Volvos???? Is there any room left on this thread for us "low brows" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I want this video played at my funeral/celebration-of-life, so all gathered will know what touched my heart:


----------



## UntilThen

Great voice. Hear her sing this contemporary song. These tubes are making Elise sing !


----------



## connieflyer

Wow, and I thought I was old, these performers go waaaaay back, I know, I was there!
   Good One!


----------



## UntilThen

Saint-Saëns by Yo Yo Ma is very good. Goose bumps performance.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> WOW!!! Schubert, Yo-Yo-Ma, Mussorgsky, Saint-Saëns and Volvos???? Is there any room left on this thread for us "low brows"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is lovely too. All great voices. Good choice P. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  
 .... and magically C3G and 4x6BL7 with HE560 is no longer distorting but this is with Valvo and not Lorenz.


----------



## connieflyer

Glad you like it.  I have been listneing to this song since very early childhood, I can remember putting it on his 78 record to put me to sleep.Worked every time


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Glad you like it.  I have been listneing to this song since very early childhood, I can remember putting it on his 78 record to put me to sleep.Worked every time


 
 Saint-Saëns ? I had no idea he dates back to the 1800 hundreds  Concert debut at 10 years old? !!! He's a musical genius and I've just discovered him lol.


----------



## connieflyer

He has been around for awhile now.  I used to deliver newspapers to him, back in the day....


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Great voice. Hear her sing this contemporary song. These tubes are making Elise sing !
> 
> I also love Alison. I may have mentioned before I saw her at CES one year when her career was just getting started. I love even more this beautiful, beautiful lady you introduced me to and who makes me proud to be a human being:


----------



## connieflyer

Another great voice, have lots of her recordings.


----------



## UntilThen

Sissel pride of Norway. Great voice indeed. I was in car audio comps several years ago and was introduced this song by one of the guys there - 'All Good Things' which I will forever remember.


----------



## connieflyer

Before I leave tonite, allow me to offer RImsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade 4th movement, very rousing and yet quiet and serene at the end.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

6x 6BL7's and C3gS, listening to an LP by Lapsley "Long Way Home" it's on White Vinyl, very fun.
No DAC - yippieeeeeeee. 


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yEgmUOZULQQ [/VIDEO]


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Looked over your chart of classical music. How come there is no Classical Jazz (20's) mentioned lol?
  
 If JacMusic says Valvo made their own C3g I am sure that they are right.
  
 Do you find that the 6BL7 tubes bring out more detail than the 5998 or EL3N tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Looked over your chart of classical music. How come there is no Classical Jazz (20's) mentioned lol?
> 
> ...


 

 Classical Jazz? No this chart is classical and there are 1920s... modern and post modern eras. Strauss, Sibelius, Debussy, etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will post my impressions on the tubes after a week's of listening but for now suffice to say that the combos of C3G and 5998 or 4x6BL7 sounds great with all these music you guys are throwing at me. I'm not frantically rolling tubes now so will take more time for a meaningful impressions.
  
 Not a good picture but this is what I have on now. I'll try C3G with 4xEL3Ns too. So keep the songs coming lol.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll spend a week with these combos and post my findings thereafter. Would have love to include more combos but that will be mind boggling and unmanageable. 
  
 ps...The order of no significance here. Just listing them. By all means I would love to hear others views too. Not just confine to these combos. Oh I'll be using all 3 headphones - T1, HD650 and HE560. Remember it's just a personal view. Not the be all and end all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

2xEL3N and 4xEL3N
2xEL3N and 2x5998
2xC3G/s and 2x5998
2xC3G/s and 4x6BL7
2xC3G/s and 4xEL3N


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Before I leave tonite, allow me to offer RImsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade 4th movement, very rousing and yet quiet and serene at the end.....


 
 So great!! One of my favorites. Those Russian composers seemed to have touched deep levels of passion, spirituality and psychology (just as writers like Dostoevsky did) that most of the more "rational" western composers never quite seemed to reach. It too will be my bedtime "lullaby" for tonight sung to me by my beautiful Elise


----------



## JazzVinyl

6x 6BL7 and Siemen C3gS - if you love clarity and uber detail, this combo will appeal to you (if your willing to heat the 6BL7 filaments externally):






Also...RIP to Keith Emerson, dead at 71 years young...his glorious "Take A Pebble" from 1970:


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tVz35uXqFYw [/VIDEO]



Cheers to all the LUCKY ones...






.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'll spend a week with these combos and post my findings thereafter. Would have love to include more combos but that will be mind boggling and unmanageable.
> 
> ps...The order of no significance here. Just listing them. By all means I would love to hear others views too. Not just confine to these combos. Oh I'll be using all 3 headphones - T1, HD650 and HE560. Remember it's just a personal view. Not the be all and end all.
> 
> ...


 
 You are my tube God and I blindly follow all of your recommendations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I hope it won't seem too sacrilegious to humbly suggest adding 2xEL3N/2xChatham 6AS7G to your list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will be very much looking forward to your findings !!!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> 6x 6BL7 and Siemen C3gS - if you love clarity and uber detail, this combo will appeal to you (if your willing to heat the 6BL7 filaments externally):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is a nice picture and having heard Valvo C3G/s with 4x6BL7 for a brief spell now, I certainly agree with the clarity and uber details.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> You are my tube God and I blindly follow all of your recommendations
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Alright another to the list but it has to be 2xEL3N and 2xChatham 6520 because I have traded my Chatham 6AS7G with arie. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Chatham 6520  and 6AS7G are very similar though. I think the 6AS7G sounded a touch brighter... just a touch.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
 I did try 2xEL3N + 2xChatham 6AS7G, and the Chathams never sounded better. BUT, substituting 4 x 6BL7 GE/TS sounded even better with more clarity, detain, impact and instrument separation.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> That is a nice picture and having heard Valvo C3G/s with 4x6BL7 for a brief spell now, I certainly agree with the clarity and uber details.




Yes, thanks, kind of stunned at how great this sounds. Interested in the Valvo...were they expensive?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, thanks, kind of stunned at how great this sounds. Interested in the Valvo...were they expensive?


 

 Not really expensive. Around the $100 a pair mark or less if you can bend arie's arms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are NOS - brand new in the original boxes. Never seen such immaculate C3Gs.


----------



## UntilThen

Simply breath taking. A pause in my comparison review as I dream of playing the piano like she does.


----------



## connieflyer

On Ebay there is a pair of Siemens.......
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-C3g-TESTED-/262328775047?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright another to the list but it has to be 2xEL3N and 2xChatham 6520 because I have traded my Chatham 6AS7G with arie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks UT))) I have a pair of the Chatham 6520 and agree they are very similar to the 6AS7Gs. You have a big job ahead of you !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks UT))) I have a pair of the Chatham 6520 and agree they are very similar to the 6AS7Gs. You have a big job ahead of you !!!!


 

 I'm listening to music as I go. By the time I finish, I should have gone through Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Modern and Contemporary.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> On Ebay there is a pair of Siemens.......
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-C3g-TESTED-/262328775047?


 

 Not anymore. It's gone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not me. I have enough C3Gs - four !!!


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> [VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yEgmUOZULQQ [/VIDEO]




Not to be played in this country. Thank you, silly uploader! :mad:

And that's a silly _å_ (_a_ ring) as well. 

grumpy O.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright a change of tune. Let's see how these tubes sound with this. Gorgeous on Tidal at 16/44.1


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Alright a change of tune. Let's see how these tubes sound with this. Gorgeous on Tidal at 16/44.1






Sometimes it's simply more about the _spirit_ than the recording/reproduction quality. 


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/hTWKbfoikeg[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Sometimes it's simply more about the _spirit_ than the recording/reproduction quality.


 
 Oh yeah...brings out the occasional rockers in us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nirvana way to go. I do like this song.


----------



## Oskari

No Irish folks around here?


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/c_1Pdg50gS8[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

Not Irish but I like this. Had no idea Paul sang this. Lovely.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Simply breath taking. A pause in my comparison review as I dream of playing the piano like she does.




Jesus Lord!

Sadly, you'll always be the ugly guy who can't play the piano, compared to her. You are not alone though...


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Not to be played in this country. Thank you, silly uploader! :mad:
> 
> And that's a silly _å_ (_a_ ring) as well.
> 
> grumpy O.





Sorry...

Happened to me the other day with one that H1 posted...could not be played in my country 

Look up: http://musiclapsley.com/


----------



## Oskari

Not your fault, JV!


----------



## connieflyer

Something a little different for you..........


----------



## JazzVinyl

Interesting - the Lapsley LP had a ticket inside that said: So that you can also listen in the "traditional" way...and a coupon to download a set of MP3's...funny that the "traditional way" now, is MP3's!!

We just did, and ka-zow, the LP blows the MP3's away. The LP is far more dynamic, depth of sound is much larger, far more details are retrieved and instruments sound much more natural (real) and its just vastly more enjoyable. 

You "get" so much more out of the Vinyl copy, it's a little un-nerving when compared, side by side. 

Vinyl is vastly less convenient, but still kicks the crud out of the digital MP3 format in sound quality.

Cheers, all...!!! (( Still running Siemen C3gS and 6x 6BL7's ))


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Something a little different for you..........


 
 Now that is stirring music not suitable just before you go to bed. It's very good though. Love it.


----------



## Suuup

Mazda 6N7G. Got all for for 26€ + 9€ shipping. Very cheap!


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Mazda 6N7G. Got all for for 26€ + 9€ shipping. Very cheap!


 
 That is indeed very cheap. I got my new pair from Giannoni for $99.
  
 Have you tried it yet? I am fond of the Mazda 6N7G and 5998. Pretty electrifying sound. The best glow too.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That is indeed very cheap. I got my new pair from Giannoni for $99.
> 
> Have you tried it yet? I am fond of the Mazda 6N7G and 5998. Pretty electrifying sound. The best glow too.


 
 That is the exact setup I have right now. It's pretty good. I find Giannoni's prices to be quite high.


----------



## UntilThen

This is how beautiful it looks except the power tubes have gone to @pctazhp .. that's the Tung Sol 7236. One of my favorite picture.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright a break from testing as I savor how good this combo sound. This is making 'Two Steps from Hell' sounding real. Let's spin some classic rock.
  
 This is making HE560 come alive !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I thought I was having some trouble, earlier, with the 6x 6BL7 adapter, my C3gS's in the drivers seats hummed, and buzzed and made weird noises. I thought the 6x 6BL7 adapter placed the powers too close to the drivers and this was the cause of the trouble. 

But I see now, that was wrong, and the problem must have been a 6BL7 that was leaking emi interference. 

Replaced some of the 6BL7's. I now, have no hum or noises, using the C3gS as drivers...

And WOW...is this a fantastic combination!

This is the first time I have heard the C3gS really shine (like I know they can) in this amp.

It's as dramatic as what they did for the LD MK IV amp...C3gS just sounds soooooooo good paired with 6BL7's....

On day 3 with this combo and have been through a lot of Genre's...everything just LOVES C3gS/6x 6BL7's...

The detail digging, giant, deep, solid, tight bass, and clarity between these two tubes....

It is.............an absolutely SUPERB PARING!!!!! Never been more pleased or amazed, with Elise....








Cheers to all the LUCKY ones!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Lucky ones indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm still on Mazda with 5998 and this is simply exquisite. Mozart is a gifted. Even Haydn praised him...."posterity will not see such a talent again in 100 years"
  
 Listen to this


----------



## DecentLevi

@Suup those Mazda 6N7 tubes look great but I didn't see any for sale online. Where did you find them? Feel free to PM me if you don't want it going public


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This is how beautiful it looks except the power tubes have gone to @pctazhp .. that's the Tung Sol 7236. One of my favorite picture.


 
  
 UT:  Eat your heart out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I don't have the Mazdas, but with my Fivre 6N7G = ECC31 black plates "with Horn" anno 1942, your 7236s sure sound nice))) The Fivres also sound very good with the 5998s


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  Eat your heart out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Looks like a tubes parade. Going to be a fun weekend. I'm spinning Led Zep now in honor of Supersonic.


----------



## connieflyer

You guys make my head spin (in a good way, thanks).  Waiting for Elise is getting harder.  Keep buying more tubes and adapters (thank you Until Then for all the help).


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Hey guys. Who rub the lamp? This Genie has been away 'sleeping' - listening to music with Elise and T1, HE560 and HD650. You have 3 wishes. Choose wisely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Hi Ut, I got cold feet and requested refund today after 11 weeks of waiting and was told 10 days ago that the unit will go on test bench ,so that is 10 days no follow up and no email after that.
 It is sad and not sure if I can get full refund for this at this point , sorry to disappoint all here, I will see what response I will get from them tomorrow.
 Regards


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Hi Ut, I got cold feet and requested refund today after 11 weeks of waiting and was told 10 days ago that the unit will go on test bench ,so that is 10 days no follow up and no email after that.
> It is sad and not sure if I can get full refund for this at this point , sorry to disappoint all here, I will see what response I will get from them tomorrow.
> Regards


 

 You don't have to apologize to any of us. I do feel sympathetic for you. 3 months is stretching it. They must be having a lot of orders.
  
 I do hope it will be a good outcome for you. Whether it's a refund or you get your Elise eventually.
  
 I'm just thinking that with DNA Stratus it's a 8 months wait.


----------



## connieflyer

Please let us know how this works out for you, when I bought mine, his email said 6-7 weeks, that was on Feb 18, invoice number 50. Hope your wait ends soon. I just sent them an email today to have it shipped without tubes, hope to hear back, last time I emailed him, he got back two days later, so you might still hear something.


----------



## nykobing

He told me end of March for me too, invoice 43 paid 10th of Feb.  I am not really in any rush. Why did you tell him to send it without the stock tubes? I thought they were included.


----------



## connieflyer

Because, I have been buying a few tubes, and I have a lot of 6SN7's and a pair of 6080's so the stock tubes are not really needed, for me.  My invoice was paid on Feb 18th so 8 days later and 7 amp orders.


----------



## nykobing

I won't even use them, but if they are going to send them, might as well take them .


----------



## connieflyer

I was thinking along the lines of less money for amp.  Let us know if you get yours or at least here something from them.  Thanks Don


----------



## UntilThen

I think if you buy without the stock tubes, it's $50 cheaper. Can't remember if it's 40 or 50. Around there. Check with Lukasz.


----------



## nykobing

Ah I already paid up front. No big deal. I didn't even see that option on their web page.


----------



## B-60

connieflyer said:


> I was thinking along the lines of less money for amp.


 
 Well, I am hoping for full refund after I did email them that would be nice for them to upgrade the driver tubes for me for all the delays.
 Maybe no refunds ,no nice tubes and another 4 weeks before I get this amp, who knows???


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Well, I am hoping for full refund after I did email them that would be nice for them to upgrade the driver tubes for me for all the delays.
> Maybe no refunds ,no nice tubes and another 4 weeks before I get this amp, who knows???


 

 B you shouldn't cancel now because you paid the price before the increase. It's $699 now.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> B you shouldn't cancel now because you paid the price before the increase. It's $699 now.


 
 If any thing they have to go by the paypal invoice , would not except any less then that, not really my problem, I deal with paypal every day so I know how that is going to work.
 I hope that the refund will be quicker then the order.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> If any thing they have to go by the paypal invoice , would not except any less then that, not really my problem, I deal with paypal every day so I know how that is going to work.
> I hope that the refund will be quicker then the order.


 

 Knowing Lukasz, I'm sure you'll get a favorable outcome. He's very good in his dealings with customers.


----------



## connieflyer

Just saw this ad on head-fi sales....I have for sale my beloved like new Feliks Audio Elise.  I received it in November 2015.  It is serial number 30.  Comes with stock tubes.  Shipping is included in the price.
  
 His is number 30 and received it in Nov 2015, at this rate my number 50 is a long ways off.  He wants $750 for it, might be worth it to buy it and cancel the one on order.


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## Suuup

connieflyer said:


> Just saw this ad on head-fi sales....I have for sale my beloved like new Feliks Audio Elise.  I received it in November 2015.  It is serial number 30.  Comes with stock tubes.  Shipping is included in the price.
> 
> His is number 30 and received it in Nov 2015, at this rate my number 50 is a long ways off.  He wants $750 for it, might be worth it to buy it and cancel the one on order.


 
 As far as I know, selling on Head Fi for more than you paid, is not allowed. You could use this as leverage.


----------



## Suuup

@DecentLevi None available as far as I know. I bought the quad on auction on Ebay form Spain. Very happy with it.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Just saw this ad on head-fi sales....I have for sale my beloved like new Feliks Audio Elise.  I received it in November 2015.  It is serial number 30.  Comes with stock tubes.  Shipping is included in the price.
> 
> His is number 30 and received it in Nov 2015, at this rate my number 50 is a long ways off.  He wants $750 for it, might be worth it to buy it and cancel the one on order.


 

 Lol connie just be patient and wait for your own personalized specially made for you Elise. In the meantime there's your Project Ember to keep you happy and no more buying more tubes.


----------



## hpamdr

connieflyer said:


> Just saw this ad on head-fi sales....I have for sale my beloved like new Feliks Audio Elise.  I received it in November 2015.  It is serial number 30.  Comes with stock tubes.  Shipping is included in the price.
> 
> His is number 30 and received it in Nov 2015, at this rate my number 50 is a long ways off.  He wants $750 for it, might be worth it to buy it and cancel the one on order.


 

 Ask F.A. it is possible to cancel your order at any cost and if you will benefit for premium customer support with a used one.
 If you are in a hurry get the used/already burned  one !
  
 If you want a brand new one with latest modification and components wait...


----------



## UntilThen

Latest modifications lol. I think you'll get gold volume knob and feet.
  
 Good point Hpa. Need to find out if warranty is transferable.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll submit these 2 prototypes to FA for their considerations.... Elise Mk 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










  
 Send yours in !!!


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## UntilThen

Every combo sounds good. This testing is getting to be a nightmare. I'm lost in translations !!!
  
 On this now and yeah...Elise has transformed with all these combos.


----------



## Audict123

Waiting for Elise I tried to improve the cosmetics of the big white adapters for EL3N and 6A6 tubes using black heat shrink tubing. I feel it turned out really nice and is very easy and quick to do:
  

  

  

  

  
 You need super wide heat shrink tubing for this but that can be bought on ebay. http://www.ebay.de/itm/161806635900?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 It even fully fits over the huge ceramic 6A6 adapter top, but I kind of like that part so ended up covering only the lower plastic part. The cutting edge in the lower photo looks a lot better in real life. I'm sure it will look great on the semi matte Elise paint.


----------



## UntilThen

That's pretty ingenious. I like it. How do you heat shrink it? Blow torch?


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## Audict123

I used a heat gun (for removing paint) but that will work too. Just make sure not to overheat anything (most parts are plastic).
  
 When cutting away the material that sticks out it is best to do that in 2 steps. First, take most the material away but stay away from the final edge some 1-2mm. Then cut away the rest in a second run. If you use a fresh wide break away knife and hold it real flat with the surface, the cutting edges come out really nice. Oh, and there is (faint) printed text on one side of the tubing, just make sure that ends up on the back once the adapter is seated.


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## Audict123

Same procedure, now with the FDD20 adapters. Before shrinking, I cut out a small hole in the lower part of the tubing with a leather punch to guide the wire through. When shrinking, start around that area and make sure the alignment of that hole with the exit point of the cable is good, then shrink the entire tube. 2 adapters done in 15mins, including trimming of the edges.


----------



## UntilThen

You're getting very good with those heat shrink tubing. I once ask Mrs Xu Ling about producing those adapters in black but was told it is costly if it's other than standard grey or white color.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Looks like a tubes parade. Going to be a fun weekend. I'm spinning Led Zep now in honor of Supersonic.




I'll be in the Elise club soon!


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be in the Elise club soon!


 
 Woohoo how soon? I've been waiting SS. I want to see your smile light up the southern sky. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Your T1 G2 will thank you.


----------



## UntilThen

This is an amazing song and I heard it on a few amazing tube combos with Elise and T1. Simply astounding.
  

  
 ... just a sneak preview of some of the astounding tube combos


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> You're getting very good with those heat shrink tubing. I once ask Mrs Xu Ling about producing those adapters in black but was told it is costly if it's other than standard grey or white color.


 
 That's exactly what I did and I got the same answer from her    For less than 5 euro, this solved it though and there is still tubing left for at least 6 more adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

Arie one of your neighbor just ordered Elise and he has a HD650. Good choice !


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## Audict123

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be in the Elise club soon!


 

 That's good news! And for me too - one person less in the cue in front of me  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.    May I ask what your invoice nr is ss395? 38? 39 maybe? Mine is 40.


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## Audict123

untilthen said:


> Arie one of your neighbor just ordered Elise and he has a HD650. Good choice !


 
 He sure has good taste then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Same amp on order, same headphone, same neighbourhood. But perhaps you consider any European as a neighbour for me? From your perspective that makes sense of course...


----------



## UntilThen

Mine is 22 and that's almost 5 months ago. It's worth the wait I can assure you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No it's a real neighbor. He's from Netherlands.


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## JazzVinyl

audict123 said:


> Same procedure, now with the FDD20 adapters. Before shrinking, I cut out a small hole in the lower part of the tubing with a leather punch to guide the wire through. When shrinking, start around that area and make sure the alignment of that hole with the exit point of the cable is good, then shrink the entire tube. 2 adapters done in 15mins, including trimming of the edges.




Looks really nice, Arie, wonder if the filament heat will cause the heat shrink to move, or sag.


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## Audict123

I can't


jazzvinyl said:


> Looks really nice, Arie, wonder if the filament heat will cause the heat shrink to move, or sag.


 
 You are right, that could happen. I'll report if it holds once I have my Elise. Should be a few weeks ... If it sags/moves, I will redo it and not 'trim' the upper part. The material there has shrunk so much that it will prevent any movement.


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## connieflyer

Okay may this will help you sleep tonite UntilThen.........
  
  
 
  
 And if the lyrics are correct, I think I just saw the red horse...
  
  
 And I saw the white horse, ridden by a man with bow and arrow.
 And he wore a golden crown and he rode a trail so narrow.
 And he went forth to conquer all the liars, thieves and cheaters;
 all the weavers of illusion; all the bigots and mistreaters;
 and the earth was shakin' like an old man's hand and the sun was black as mud;
 and the oceans moved across the land and the moon became as blood.
 And I saw a red horse and a rider with a saber;
 to take peace from all the earth, for destruction was his labor.
 And he rode out in anger to turn brother against brother;
 with poison for the nations to make them all kill one another.
 And the stars of heaven fell to earth like the fruit of a tree that's shaken;
 by an unkindly wind, to be ever more foresaken.
 And I saw the black horse and the rider with the balance;
 to separate the works of man; his vices from his talents.
 A measure of wheat for a penny, three measures of barley in kind
 To divide the one from the many, But hurt not the oil and wine
 And the heavens parted like a scroll, when it is rolled together.
 And the mountains were moved out of place; Like a whirlwind blows a feather.
 And I saw a pale horse, and Death was riding on him
 And Hell was right behind him, and no mortal man outshone him.
 The kings of the earth and the mighty men; The glorious and greedy
 Hid themselves in the blackest hole, with the homeless and the needy.
 And some priests and some television preachers, laid down with the vile unholy
 And some senators and movie stars
 shared a cave with the meek and lowly.
 And they cried to the mountains
 Fall on us! And hide us from the face of Him
 Fall on us! And hide us from the face
 face.
 Hide us from the face of Him
 Fall on us! And hide us from the face of Him
 Fall on us! And hide us from the face
 Hide us from the face of Him


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks but I'm watching Formula One racing live happening right now in Melbourne.

All the top drivers are there including Lewis Hamilton.

I love Glenn Campbell. Will listen to his songs later.


----------



## JazzVinyl

After 4 days with Elise sounding her best with 6x 6BL7 as powers and C3gS as drivers...

Put the 1940's Sylvania 6SN7's back in...also fab with 6BL7 providing the power. So smooth, so musical, with an infinite deep well of solid bass, dynamics and impact enough to satisfy the pickiest listener.....







Cheers to the growing number of LUCKY ones


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## JazzVinyl

Still Sunday here...




[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R9lUrs6Cv7o [/VIDEO]


----------



## JoeDoe

Any current Elise owners using Grados as their primary cans?


----------



## pctazhp

Sometimes I am asked to compare the Elise with my Valhalla2 or Little Dot MKIV SE amps. It has been months since I powered up my LD. I may get around to doing a comparison with the it in a few weeks, but for now I can report on the comparison I have been making between the Elise and the V2.
  
 I have been using the EL3N/5998 combo in the Elise for purpose of the comparison. This is not necessarily my favorite combo. I chose it for this purpose because it sounds very good to me, yet uses tubes that are still generally available, albeit admittedly pretty expensive.
  
 For the V2 I have stayed with the stock power tubes, but am using Amperex Bugle Boys for the drivers, which I bought from Ebay for $46. The Bugle Boys do improve the performance of the V2.
  
 If I had never heard the Elise, I could be happy with the V2 – happy but not thrilled. With the Elise I’m thrilled every time I listen to it with just about any of the tube combos I have. While listening to the Elise I have trouble ending my listening sessions – it is that involving. With the V2, I don’t have nearly as much trouble ending a session. In fact, after a while I start to experience a mild form of listener fatigue. I’m not sure why, but it is real for me.
  
 The V2 is a brighter amp. Initially that led me to conclude that it might be more detailed. But I believe that “detail” is not always a useful term. I prefer the term “information”. For me “information” is a more comprehensive term. It describes what I believe is the degree of fidelity to the live performance that was recorded. Of course, I can’t be sure because I would not have heard the live performance, but if I say that a particular amp, headphone or DAC provides more “information”, it means that what I’m hearing seems more natural and what my experience tells me is closer to live music.
  
 In this sense, the Elise provides significantly more information than the V2. Vocals have more body and “flesh”. Instruments have more body and “bloom”. In comparison, the V2 sounds “flat”. It is less involving, and the sound stage is not as good. And when I say “sound stage” I don’t just mean from a dimensional viewpoint (depth and width), but also localization and clear placement of vocals and instruments within the sound stage. To use one of my favorite descriptive terms (shamelessly stolen from the late Harry Pearson), the air between instruments and vocals is far more noticeable and apparent on the Elise than it is on the V2.
  
 All tube amps add some coloration because of the presence of even order harmonics. They also sound smoother than many solid state amps possibly because of a lower level of odd order harmonics. I cannot be sure how much of the “information” I believe I am hearing from the Elise is due to greater even order harmonics than with the V2. But what I’m hearing does not seem to be “distortion”. I hear subtle nuances in both male and female vocals with the Elise not present with the V2, as well as more timber in instruments. 
 Another area the Elise excels is dynamics. It is much more exciting than the V2, but not because it is colored. Rather it is the slam from top to bottom of the audible frequency range. It is unqualifiedly effortless without any sign of strain. I can’t say the same for the V2. There is something a little annoying about many of the loud passages I hear with the V2. It is not a huge problem, but it is certainly something I notice more than I prefer.
  
 While I’m at it, I want to mention that lately I have been doing a lot of listening with my lowly Sennheiser HD598s. When I pulled them out and dusted them off a couple of weeks ago I was shocked at how wonderful the HD598s sound with the Elise. I had come to finally realize that I just couldn’t continue using my HD700s because of the listener fatigue I experienced from the treble spike over extended listening periods. 
  
 I have on order a new pair of HD800S, with a right of return. I must say that the backorder situation with the new S version is about the same as the Elise. I know I will probably destroy whatever credibility I might have as a critical listener, but I have to say the HD800S is going to have to be considerably better than my 598s to justify the price different. It is also going to have to be a lot better than my T1, Gen 2, phones, because I won’t be keeping both.
  
 I am aware that the price difference (with tubes I’m using) between the V2 and Elise is substantial. But the V2 is a highly regarded amp, and hopefully what I’ve written will give someone who is considering the Elise a point of reference.
  
 If someone were starting from scratch and needed to stay under $2,000, I could in good conscience recommend they order an Elise without tubes, a pair of EL3Ns for drivers, a pair of 5998s or similar power tubes, a Schiit MultiBit DAC, and a pair of HD598s (and upgrade the phones later if they felt inclined). They could probably also throw in a pair of Morrow MA3 interconnects (which I have) to use between the DAC and amp, if they believe cables make a difference, and still be under $2,000 (I think my math is right!!!).
  
 Of course, as budget permitted, I would certainly not discourage them from trying other tube combos recommended here. But I would also have to tell them that I suspect that new money might be initially invested most effectively in trying other headphones including the T1 (Gen 1 or 2) and HD800 (Classic or S).
  
 Much of the positive qualities of the Elise I describe above are, in my opinion, due in no small part to using the EL3N tubes for drivers. While the Elise even with stock tubes is very good, and as far as I can remember superior to the V2, the EL3N is significantly better than any other drivers I have tried (including Siemens C3G, Fivre 6N7G = ECC31 black plates . "with Horn" anno 1942, Philips MiniWatt FDD20 and 6BL7). I appreciate the pioneering efforts of @hypnos1 and @UntilThen with the EL3Ns for bringing them to my attention. And thanks to Feliks Audio for designing and producing an amp that could take such great advantage of these tubes. 
  
 There certainly may be tubes I haven’t heard that are equal to or exceed the EL3Ns. Just more icing on the exquisite and delicious cake - that cake being Feliks Audio’s Elise. I will readily admit I have never heard any of the megabuck headphone amps. But there is no real fairy dust in audio. The laws of physics still apply. I find it hard to believe that the designers of the big buck amps have discovered some breakthrough electronic secret that has eluded electronic engineers for decades and that can only be implemented at the cost of thousands. Of course, I could be all wet. But there is one thing of which I am certain. A significant percentage of the cost of most expensive audio electronics usually goes into cosmetics. Expectation bias anyone????


----------



## TomNC

@pctazhp A great post. Very informative.


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## connieflyer

UntilThen perhaps this won't keep you up at night......


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp that is a great effort and can easily go up in the formal review for Elise. Thanks for taking the time to post a lengthy and descriptive  comparisons between the Valhalla 2 and Elise. 
  
 In the absence of a thumps up icon, this will do.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UntilThen perhaps this won't keep you up at night......


 
@hypnos1 loves Peter, Paul and Mary. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## UntilThen

It's back to basics and I love this tubes combination. Sweet, clear, detail and vibrant sound that will keep you up all night long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With most tubes combination, Elise's sonic signature is clearly fast transient response, articulate, dynamic, punchy and impeccable pace, rhythm and timing. It's an exciting sound worthy of any TOTL headphones.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Thank you for a very insightful and thoughtful review. I too, have decided that the EL3N are the ones to stay in the driver's seat at the exclusion of other tubes I have.
  
 I use 4 x 6BL7 for power tubes, and this combination is addictive - I spend much more time listening than ever before, without any listening fatigue.
  
 I do realize that my listening experience may be different than many others on this forum since I use the Elise as a preamp, listening through speakers, and not headphones. YMMV.....
  
 In terms of cost my wonderful system (Elise, tubes, adapters, two speakers + powered subwoofer) cost around $1000, but then I bought the Elise at the introductory price. From what I understand, the price has increased $200 since then. If you factor in all the trial and error tubes and a laptop for storing music, the price goes up considerably.....
  
 In addition to the listening pleasure, I find the voyage of discovering new tubes and tube combinations fascinating. I am thinking of trying JV's setup with 6 x 6BL7 tubes since he reports that he gets very good results with driver tubes that fall short with 4 x 6BL7.
  
 Or, I could stop with what I have since it leaves me very happy. But......


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 loves Peter, Paul and Mary. Thanks for sharing.


 

 If you can get this SACD album, it is wonderful : "Peter, Paul & Mary: Peter, Paul & Mary (Hybrid-SACD) (Limited Numbered Edition)"


----------



## UntilThen

I have a few Hybrid-SACD but not of Peter, Paul & Mary. However I'm having so much fun going from tubes to tubes. Haven't heard this combo for a while but it makes my eye balls grow bigger 
  
 A wall of sound, front row seat, an impactful bass. Love the 6N7G and 6A6 sound. I'm even getting to love my HD650 again. You hear me Arie? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy listening!


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> A wall of sound, front row seat, an impactful bass. Love the 6N7G and 6A6 sound. I'm even getting to love my HD650 again. You hear me Arie?


 
  
 6A6 and 6N7G are in fact very similar for a same brand except the base and should sound the same. With HD650, you can even use them as output tube running a quad of 6A6 as driver and 6N7G as power... But only with medium-z cans like HD600.


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks @UntilThen. I'll be pretty busy for the next 2 or 3 weeks. And I'd really like to hear both amps with the HD800S before I post the review. In the meantime seems like the Feliks boys are doing just fine without the benefit of my review)))
  
 And also thanks to you @mordy. I have 4 6BL7s, but will have to order the dual adapters.
  
 @connieflyer. Put me down as a big Peter, Paul and Mary fan. But, oh my. They look so old


----------



## UntilThen

Yes they are indeed similar in sound because I have both Visseaux & Fivre 6N7G and 6A6. Quad 6A6 as drivers? !!! I have enough 6A6 to do that. I have 2 Fivre and 5 NU 6A6 but where will I get the adapters. What will it sound like? I'm going nuts with the combinations now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 2xVisseaux6A6 and 2xFivre6A6 as drivers and 2xVisseaux6N7G and 2xFivre6N7G as powers = 6.4A  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't even make me do this.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Yes they are indeed similar in sound because I have both Visseaux & Fivre 6N7G and 6A6. Quad 6A6 as drivers? !!! I have enough 6A6 to do that. I have 2 Fivre and 5 NU 6A6 but where will I get the adapters. What will it sound like? I'm going nuts with the combinations now.


 
 If you have dual 6BL7 -> 6AS7 you can use after regular one to one adapter. (This is not the best but you can get an idea  )


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> If you have dual 6BL7 -> 6AS7 you can use after regular one to one adapter. (This is not the best but you can get an idea  )


 

 4 big white marshmallows. My Elise will look like a big vanilla cake.


----------



## hpamdr

With colored shrink tubing, you can adapt color to what you wear 
 Red for EL3N.. Black for 6A6, ......


----------



## UntilThen

You sure this will work? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2xVisseaux6A6 as drivers and 4x6N7G as power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

How's this?


----------



## UntilThen

Yay it's rocking.... and no explosion. Good sound too on HD650. Solid... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Dreams by Fleetwood Mac .... I'm dreaming
  

  
 No hum too what a bonus. Only 4.8A cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Trust @hpamdr to think of all these weird combinations.
  
 I've got 2xVisseaux6A6 and 2xMazda6N7g / 2xVisseaux6N7g
  
 Hmmm better on Beyer T1 hahaha.


----------



## UntilThen

I would never have thought of using 4x6N7Gs as power tubes but it sounds really good. With EL3N as drivers, there's more volume gain and superb clarity and details. Great soundstage too. Well done @hpamdr for this suggestion. The Mazda 6N7G provides a bright and vibrant sound.


----------



## pctazhp

tomnc said:


> @pctazhp A great post. Very informative.


 
 Thanks Tom )))


----------



## connieflyer

What I would like to see, is take an adapter like JV's 6 place in one adapter and make a 4 place adapter in one piece.  Would make a smaller over hang and look much better, IMHO that is.  With the spread of the power sockets should be possible to span one adapter across powers and have 4 tubes.  Wish I would have thought of this sooner, like before I bought separte adapters. MrsL should be able to use the specs from JV's setup to come up with a new product.  I would buy that, even though I have two adapters on the way in.  Would help for "new" Elise customers, also.


----------



## mordy

Hi cf,
  
 Problem is that the 6 x adapter is now priced at $100 + shipping $10 which I think is too much....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690?hash=item2ca8ed3fda:g:FEYAAOSwG-1WzSQL


----------



## connieflyer

At anywhere close to that I would not consider it


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> At anywhere close to that I would not consider it




CF - you can always make your own 

The big advantage of the one piece 6x is it's lower profile. Much nicer than the 2x adapter imo, because it's far more solid. The 2x are "okay" but do not feel as well made to me.

Overhang with 6x is about 3/4 of an inch, on each side.

6x can be used as a 4x if desired, as they are all in there in Parallel. You can also mix-n-match with 6AS7 / 5998 / 6080 (if you have the external heat amperage that is necessary). 
It's good that the 6x does not connect pins 7 & 8, so that you *must* heat externally, no chance of blowing up the Elise Transformer, with that adapter.

I was surprised, too, that the price went to $100.00, but she must have her reasons.

It is well made, and unique to the Elise amp.

Sound benefit will lessen the sting of the cost: 

I spent $200.00 plus shipping on a used pair of 5998's - in my opinion, this item, plus an external heat power supply, plus 6x 6BL7's - sounds better than 5998's and costs about the same. If you needed more 6BL7's in the future, they will be far cheaper to obtain, than buying another pair of 5998's.

It all depends on External Heat...some folks say they are all thumbs, and therefore are not comfortable with attempting to externally heat. If that is the case, definitely do not bother with the 6x 6BL7 adapter. 

Don't forget one additional advantage to the 6x adapter - is far less internal heat, inside your Elise.....externally heating of your power tubes (and with this adapter it could be multiple 6BL7's or multiple 6AS7's or any combo that you have the heater current for) keeps your Elise running much cooler, she will therefore last much longer. Look under any tube amp that has been in operation for years and you quickly see the telltale signs that it's the heat that deteriorates a tube amp.

If I had it to do over again, I would externally heat my power tubes, from day one. 
1x, 2x, 4x or 6x power tubes, Elise _will_ benefit from heating them, externally.


Cheers to all the *LUCKY* ones...


----------



## supersonic395

audict123 said:


> That's good news! And for me too - one person less in the cue in front of me   .    May I ask what your invoice nr is ss395? 38? 39 maybe? Mine is 40.




I'm not in front of you as due to personal reasons I had to place my order on hold. However I'll be taking care of it with the team next week. 

So I'll be in for a wait BUT I do have over 1000 albums to rip into flac in the meantime


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Sometimes I am asked to compare the Elise with my Valhalla2 or Little Dot MKIV SE amps. It has been months since I powered up my LD. I may get around to doing a comparison with the it in a few weeks, but for now I can report on the comparison I have been making between the Elise and the V2.
> 
> I have been using the EL3N/5998 combo in the Elise for purpose of the comparison. This is not necessarily my favorite combo. I chose it for this purpose because it sounds very good to me, yet uses tubes that are still generally available, albeit admittedly pretty expensive.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct.
  
 I make no apologies for quoting your full post here - it does indeed have great sincerity and merit, warranting a repeat, lol...and has tempted me (along with references to P P & M!) to have a break from my break and say just how spot on was @WB2016's statement a while back regarding the EL family of tubes' use in studios, and their long-term 'sweet spot' nature, both in terms of the time taken to reach it and then their long life maintenance of same....
  
 I have in fact already mentioned (a good few times, lol!) how I underestimated the burn-in time needed for the EL3Ns to really shine...but I have found even 200 to 300 hours are not nearly enough. Recent revisiting of my favourite pieces for testing - that I have heard literally hundreds of times,  and that are further hundreds of hours down the road since last listen - has been a true revelation, and quite unexpected :
  
 All the qualities I covered in depth as time progressed have continued to develop further, and to a degree where Mike Oldfield's 'Elements' album (basically a 'Best of') had me convinced I was listening to a 'New, Improved, Super MK2 Elise'!....and this is no hyperbolic exaggeration. The transformation had me (temporarily!) lost for words - and breath! -  and wondering whether I had suddenly been blessed with massively improved hearing....but I'm afraid I don't really believe in such miracles, alas. This miraculous improvement itself I _*do*_ believe, however - since no other parameter could have changed such as to explain what I am now hearing....(I shan't bore folks with repeated listing of the qualities I'm discussing...please just look back to my (fairly!) recent postings on this subject). Suffice to say that _*no other tube*_ has come close to this level of performance - over _any_ length of time...not even the mighty C3g'S'...and with the added benefit that I can now turn up the volume a fair amount, bringing even _more_ glorious detailed and full-bodied sound without my ears/head having to suffer for such a treat! (which I couldn't do to anywhere near the same degree with my beloved C3gSs - especially via the Beyer T1s!!).
  
 Now I know my own final sound is undoubtedly helped by my uber-expensive GEC CV2523s (6AS7G), and formed within the rest of my own particular system. I will not make dogmatic statements about the EL3N being better than any other tube on the planet (even though for me _personally_ I believe it to be not far off, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but what I can say with a fair degree of confidence is that I'm sure the startling results of *extensive* burn-in that I have experienced are not limited to just my own set-up....in other words, to those who are interested in this tube I say...._*please, please *_be _*very*_ patient, and you will most probably be rewarded BIG time...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!....


----------



## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> I'm not in front of you as due to personal reasons I had to place my order on hold. However I'll be taking care of it with the team next week.
> 
> So I'll be in for a wait BUT I do have over 1000 albums to rip into flac in the meantime


 
  
 Sorry to see you have a fair wait to endure, s395...but glad you will be spending the time doing something _very_ useful in the end, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(hope the time  passes quickly for you, though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Completely agree that the EL3N keeps on improving, even after extended use. As far as I am concerned, this tube remains in the driver's seat in my amp. For me, it is simply the best driver tube I have come across at this point in time.
  
 I know that you are reluctant to add external heating to your Elise (and I certainly understand why), but it would be very interesting to hear your comments on a comparison between the 6BL7 power tubes (multiples of 4 or 6) compared to your GEC 6AS7 tubes.


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> I would never have thought of using 4x6N7Gs as power tubes but it sounds really good. With EL3N as drivers, there's more volume gain and superb clarity and details. Great soundstage too. Well done @hpamdr for this suggestion. The Mazda 6N7G provides a bright and vibrant sound.


 
 Yet another combo to try once I receive my Elise. When I'm done, I'll be retired!
  
 When hunting for other tubes, I also found some Visseaux 6C5G's - equivalent to 6J5G (beloved by the project Amber people) and essentially the single triode version of 6SN7. They are cute: somewhat smaller than 6N7G tubes but otherwise rather similar. I have four now. These could go in the driver position using dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters but I wonder now if that would fit in the front sockets. These are rather close.... Could someone measure the exact distance between the centers of the Elise's front sockets?


----------



## Audict123

connieflyer said:


> What I would like to see, is take an adapter like JV's 6 place in one adapter and make a 4 place adapter in one piece.  Would make a smaller over hang and look much better, IMHO that is.  With the spread of the power sockets should be possible to span one adapter across powers and have 4 tubes.  Wish I would have thought of this sooner, like before I bought separte adapters. MrsL should be able to use the specs from JV's setup to come up with a new product.  I would buy that, even though I have two adapters on the way in.  Would help for "new" Elise customers, also.


 

 That sounds like a great idea to me! At a fair price, I'd buy one too...


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> Yet another combo to try once I receive my Elise. When I'm done, I'll be retired!
> 
> When hunting for other tubes, I also found some Visseaux 6C5G's - equivalent to 6J5G (beloved by the project Amber people) and essentially the single triode version of 6SN7. They are cute: somewhat smaller than 6N7G tubes but otherwise rather similar. I have four now. These could go in the driver position using dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters but I wonder now if that would fit in the front sockets. These are rather close.... Could someone measure the exact distance between the centers of the Elise's front sockets?


 

 It's 5.8cm or 2.25inches between the centre point of the 2 front sockets.
  
 Those who have 4x6N7G try and have a listen with EL3N in the drivers seat. It kept me up till 3am. No need for eternal power supply. This setup is a cool 5A and it's an amazing sound. I'll roll in different 6N7G today of which I have 10 pairs of different brands.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct.
> 
> I make no apologies for quoting your full post here - it does indeed have great sincerity and merit, warranting a repeat, lol...and has tempted me (along with references to P P & M!) to have a break from my break and say just how spot on was @WB2016's statement a while back regarding the EL family of tubes' use in studios, and their long-term 'sweet spot' nature, both in terms of the time taken to reach it and then their long life maintenance of same....
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome back @hypnos1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to hear your impressions again. 
  
 I do love the EL3N... like I need to repeat myself here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can confirm the long burn in benefits on the EL3N. In Elise drivers seat, they sound wonderful. Paired with any power tubes, whether in single pairs or multiples, it's the best tone I've heard in my collections.
  
 I think your last statement is very important. Be patient in head-fi. Most of all, enjoy the music.


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1. Thank you so much for your kind words. Coming from you, I couldn't hope for a more meaningful compliment. You, probably more than anyone associated with Elise, have been willing to think outside the box. I have tremendous respect for you. You are confident in what you are experiencing, provide useful information, and are beyond generous in helping all of us. And I agree with all you say about the EL3N. 
  
 Perhaps even more important, I still remember your post about the fact that emotional involvement with the great performances we all have access to is really the ultimate end game. You are the best, my good friend. If I decide not to keep the HD800S, I will be sorely tempted to put the money I'm saving by keeping the T1s toward acquiring a pair of your legendary GEC CV2523s )))


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> What I would like to see, is take an adapter like JV's 6 place in one adapter and make a 4 place adapter in one piece.  Would make a smaller over hang and look much better, IMHO that is.  With the spread of the power sockets should be possible to span one adapter across powers and have 4 tubes.  Wish I would have thought of this sooner, like before I bought separte adapters. MrsL should be able to use the specs from JV's setup to come up with a new product.  I would buy that, even though I have two adapters on the way in.  Would help for "new" Elise customers, also.




You could ask her to make it. She didn't want to make the "bridge" style 6x adapter specific to the Elise because she knew if she made them 3x seperate like the 2x ones, that she could sell to more amp owners. 

And she was right, afaik, I am the only person on the planet running 6x 6BL7 in the Elise via a "bridge style Elise specific" adapter 

She did come out with separate 3x adapters, and immediately sold some Glenn owners. 

Cheers...


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I only have two adapters for the 6N7G tubes, so I can only run two of them, but your quartet of 6N7G tubes inspired me to try 2xMazda 6N7G + 2x6BL7.
  
 If I am correct, the current draw is 6.4A total - no need for external power. (1.8 + 1.6 + 3A)
  





  
 For once, my amp looks "normal", which is a plus - no crazy looking adapters and wires. Citizen Lin - it is safe to look lol. (BTW, what tubes r u running?)
  
 So how does it sound? Don't know yet - these oldies need time to warm up - maybe 30 minutes.
  
 Anyhow, where were we? Yes, the sound. OK, first impression is a very sweet and lyrical midrange, but lack of precision in the treble and loose bass; not the control, slam and energy I get with 4 x BL tubes. Very pleasant and I need to re-calibrate my brain. Will post more later - too late tonight.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I only have two adapters for the 6N7G tubes, so I can only run two of them, but your quartet of 6N7G tubes inspired me to try 2xMazda 6N7G + 2x6BL7.
> 
> ...


 
 Certainly need time to listen to get any meaningful impressions. Today is my 2nd day on this setup so I'm still listening but it sounded good so far. Certainly not the loose bass or imprecise treble you're hearing. Again you're on speakers and I'm on headphones. 
  
 I'm using 2 Mazda and 2 Visseaux 6N7G which are very similar in sound and identical in constructions. 
  
 Some tubes combination may not gel well too. FDD20 and 4x6BL7 cause distortion on HE560 at 11am. C3G and 4xEL3N does not work. Distortions too.
  
 Your setup is indeed 6.4A.


----------



## JazzVinyl

All drivers work well with 6x 6BL7's. Using the 2x 6BL7 adapters I did get distortions with C3gS and FDD20 didn't work well with the 2x 6BL7's either (don't remember distortions, but oddly weak gain was noted). 

ECC31 also didn't pair well with the 2x arrangement. 

But 3x cleared all that up, and all drivers sound superb. 

Listening to ECC31/6x 6BL7 now...its very nice. 

C3gS and 6x 6BL7 is super top flight. Best I have heard the C3gS's in this amp.


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> It's 5.8cm or 2.25inches between the centre point of the 2 front sockets.
> 
> Those who have 4x6N7G try and have a listen with EL3N in the drivers seat. It kept me up till 3am. No need for eternal power supply. This setup is a cool 5A and it's an amazing sound. I'll roll in different 6N7G today of which I have 10 pairs of different brands.


 
 Thanks UT. Don't think it will fit then, unless if I rotate the dual 6J5 adapters 90 degrees which is not possible according to Xu Ling. Or I need to modify them, will have a look ...


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> Thanks UT. Don't think it will fit then, unless if I rotate the dual 6J5 adapters 90 degrees which is not possible according to Xu Ling. Or I need to modify them, will have a look ...


 

 You're welcome arie. The 6J5 looks like a shorten version of 6N7. Hope that Elise will be delivered to you soon. You're one of the lucky ones who ordered before the price increase.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I'm not in front of you as due to personal reasons I had to place my order on hold. However I'll be taking care of it with the team next week.
> 
> So I'll be in for a wait BUT I do have over 1000 albums to rip into flac in the meantime


 

 1000 albums !!! You've got more than me. LR has 3TB in DSD.


----------



## UntilThen

Arie this looks more compact and might fit.


----------



## hpamdr

audict123 said:


> Yet another combo to try once I receive my Elise. When I'm done, I'll be retired!
> 
> When hunting for other tubes, I also found some Visseaux 6C5G's - equivalent to 6J5G (beloved by the project Amber people) and essentially the single triode version of 6SN7. They are cute: somewhat smaller than 6N7G tubes but otherwise rather similar. I have four now. These could go in the driver position using dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters but I wonder now if that would fit in the front sockets. These are rather close.... Could someone measure the exact distance between the centers of the Elise's front sockets?


 

 Hi Arie,
  
 6C5J and 6J5 single triode tube can be used one by side on the Elise if you have 6N7 -> 6SN7 adapter. The 6C5 is not as powerful as the 6J5, Drop in replacement goes for C replaced by J..
  
 In Ember you must have a dual adapter as you only have one tube socket, each triode goes to one chanel..


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> Arie this looks more compact and might fit.


 

 Yes but really uggly ! The spigot seems not aligned with upper socket and this could be critical if you cannot turn..


----------



## JazzVinyl

hpamdr said:


> Yes but really ugly ! The spigot seems not aligned with upper socket and this could be critical if you cannot turn..




That was my thought too, and looks are paramount to arie123...?


----------



## connieflyer

I have an Ember now (waiting for Elise) and the adapter I was using for 6C5,6J5,6L5 is this one, and I was able to rotate it 90 degrees.  Don't know if she changed it or not, but if you loosen the screw on the bottom and very slowly rotate, it should go, one way or the other.........http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/191530248252?hash=item2c9817a83c:g:mZEAAOSwuAVWy-bN


----------



## Oskari

Confession time. I'm a slacker.

Lorenz C3g sounds so lovely with GEC 6080WA. Why bother with anything else?

I should at least reinspect the EL3N... sigh.


----------



## Oskari

Confession time continued.

I know it's corny, but I like it.


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/ZGoWtY_h4xo[/VIDEO]


----------



## B-60

IT IS HERE!!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Right out of the BOX it is VERY GOOD!!!!


----------



## jerick70

b-60 said:


> IT IS HERE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats!!!!!!  She is SOOOOOOOOOO beautiful!!!!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> IT IS HERE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Right out of the BOX it is VERY GOOD!!!!




Very excellent! Congrats, B-60!!

What is your Serial Number? 

Plate on the bottom should show it...


----------



## mordy

Don't know how to write these impressions..Should I start with:
  
 Boy, was I wrong!  Or,
  
 Found a new favorite combo - amazing!!!!
  
 Yesterday I posted that I tried 2 EL3N as drivers with 2 x 6BL7 + 2 x Mazda 6N7G power tubes. In the beginning I did not like the bass and treble, but liked the mid range. Now I have let the tubes percolate a number of hours, and things have changed dramatically for the better.
  
 Don't know if the tubes need some time to adjust to each other, or my brain needs to re-calibrate after 4 x BL. Maybe a combination of both, or, more likely, supratentorial adjustment.
  
 With a good recording, it feels like sitting in the front row, right in front of the musicians. Crystal clear, fabulous instrument separation, wonderful mid range and highs, very articulate bass (but not as hard hitting as 4 x BL tubes), wide sound stage.
  
 The net result is a very engaging and enveloping musical experience - the musicians are so close that I can smell the breath of players of the horn instruments (not true, but u get the idea).
  
 4 x BL is harder hitting and more analytical; this combination is sweeter and more musical. Feel like hugging these tubes, but maybe not a good idea since the 6BL7 run hot. The EL3N and the Mazda 6N7G don't run hot at at all, and the Elise does not need any external power - runs only slightly warm.
  
 I think hypnos 1 wrote about a similar experience where it took time to readjust to different tubes which weren't as flamboyant, but still presented the full frequency response in a different fashion. And I think JV called the Visseaux 6N7G the Joybringers. (May be the same as the Mazda 6N7G)
  
 My Mazda 6N7G tubes have the letters MO on the glass. Maybe made by Marconi-Osram - GEC territory.
  
 http://www.bulbcollector.com/article007.html
  
 GEC stands for General Electric Company Limited. The Tung Sols may be made by General Electric (GE).
  
 This combination is special.......


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, Mordy the 6N7G's are great tubes for Elise. I wrote in the old thread about feeling like I was onstage with the musicians reading the chart and anticipating the next "change" in the tempo, or key signature. 

The 6N7G's definitely bring you closer to the action. 

I like the* Joybringers *as drivers backed by 6x 6BL7's as powers.

Trying the 1x 6N7G and 2x 6BL7's as powers now, to the 1940's 6SN7W as drivers. 

Will leave this in a couple of days, the switch back to 6x 6BL7's as powers and* Joybringers *as drivers...







Cheers to all the LUCKY ONES


----------



## JazzVinyl

Worthy of your best tube combo:




[VIDEO]https://youtube.com/watch?v=k7ozt7u9YHU [/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

LOL @B-60 ... right out of the box it is VERY GOOD. Haha who would have known. I was actually quite sad for you when you said you were asking for a refund. Sad because you would have missed an opportunity to listen to an exquisite sound from Elise.
  
 Congrats and was that listening with your HEX? 
  
 Why does your unit look so black and new...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Don't know how to write these impressions..Should I start with:
> 
> Boy, was I wrong!  Or,
> 
> Found a new favorite combo - amazing!!!!


 
 Mordy if you're in a restaurant, I'll be saying to the waiter 'I'll have what he's having'. Glad you're enjoying your new found sound. I stopped 4x6N7G after 2 days. It didn't have enough of what I was looking for and the gain is low. In your configuration, things might be different. I reckon you still need more time to let the new tone set in.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Confession time continued.
> 
> I know it's corny, but I like it.


 
 I like it too and it's not corny. I'll share this song courtesy of H1.


----------



## Audict123

connieflyer said:


> I have an Ember now (waiting for Elise) and the adapter I was using for 6C5,6J5,6L5 is this one, and I was able to rotate it 90 degrees.  Don't know if she changed it or not, but if you loosen the screw on the bottom and very slowly rotate, it should go, one way or the other.........http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-L63-CV1932-VR67-VT154-TO-6SN7GT-CV181-B65-tube-adapter-/191530248252?hash=item2c9817a83c:g:mZEAAOSwuAVWy-bN


 
  
  


hpamdr said:


> Hi Arie,
> 
> 6C5J and 6J5 single triode tube can be used one by side on the Elise if you have 6N7 -> 6SN7 adapter. The 6C5 is not as powerful as the 6J5, Drop in replacement goes for C replaced by J..
> 
> In Ember you must have a dual adapter as you only have one tube socket, each triode goes to one chanel..


 
  
 Thanks for all the advice on 6C5G/6J5G adapters guys. Much appreciated! The adapter UT dug up would probably fit but it sure ain't pretty (carefully selecting words here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I would rather try to modify MrsXuLings version by moving the 6SN7 plug to the side.
  
 Hpamdr: do I understand correctly that you think I can test the tubes as (two) single triodes instead of (two) pair of single triodes, using the 6N7 adapter? I sure would like to try before buying any adapters. No risks that this will result in a situation that no driver tubes are connected (which reputately would kill the powers)? I have many time tried to understand how the Elise tubes are connected. It is often said that the drivers are in series. But in series with what? With one another (left + right tube)? Or are both triodes inside one dual triode in series? An interesting test would be: if only one dual triode tube is present, is there sound from 0, 1 or 2 channels? But I wouldn't do that test myself since having no drivers has been reported to be a threat to the powers.


----------



## UntilThen




----------



## hpamdr

audict123 said:


> Hpamdr: do I understand correctly that you think I can test the tubes as (two) single triodes instead of (two) pair of single triodes, using the 6N7 adapter? I sure would like to try before buying any adapters. No risks that this will result in a situation that no driver tubes are connected (which reputately would kill the powers)? I have many time tried to understand how the Elise tubes are connected. It is often said that the drivers are in series. But in series with what? With one another (left + right tube)? Or are both triodes inside one dual triode in series? An interesting test would be: if only one dual triode tube is present, is there sound from 0, 1 or 2 channels? But I wouldn't do that test myself since having no drivers has been reported to be a threat to the powers.


 
  
 When you use C3g or EL3N tube as driver you use only one "strapped triode" by side and the Elise is working great with it. In the Elise both triodes (inside a tube)  are working in parallel. It allows to run one or two without cutting the signal destroying your amp puting the fire in your house....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To give you an hint about what what motivated my advise !
  
 6SN7 Pin used for usual EL3N adapter are :* A2, G1**, K2*, F + F

 And see what is on my hat....
  
  

 
 6N7 pins layout
   1 S
   2 F
   3 A2
   4 G2
   5 G1
   6 A1
   7 F
   8 K1+K2
  
 6J5 pins layout 
   1 S
   2 F
   3 A --> *A2*
   4 -
   5 G --> *G1*
   6 -
   7 F
   8 K --> *K2*
  
 Hop Hop Hop same as EL3N adapter

  
  
 You can also give a look here http://vinylsavor.blogspot.fr/2011/02/tube-of-month-6n7.html


----------



## hpamdr

b-60 said:


> IT IS HERE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Without original tubes even for the first try .... Headphone jack connected to which cans ?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Using 2xBL and 2x6N7G the gain is a little lower than 4xBL, but not a problem for me. Did you try 2xBL + 20/31 combo? Should be 5.5A since the FDD20 has it's own 12V power supply.
  
 I think this will be my next project after getting used to "I'll have that" lol.....


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Confession time. I'm a slacker.
> 
> Lorenz C3g sounds so lovely with GEC 6080WA. Why bother with anything else?
> 
> I should at least reinspect the EL3N... sigh.


 
  
 Aaahhh but O...do you have the _patience_ to get those EL3Ns to their 'sweet spot' lol?!!!...I sincerely hope so.  But whatever, I'm glad you're enjoying the C3gs...not to mention those GEC 6080s...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

GREAT NEWS @B-60...and really glad you hung in there, lol! ...ENJOY!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...things can only get MUCH better as the hours go by....
  
@mordy...yeah, it would indeed be interesting to see just how the 6BL7s compare to the GEC CV2523s, but now with 400+ hrs on the  EL3Ns (and many of those in just 1 to 2 hr slots) the sound I'm getting is so magical, there's no real incentive to do so I'm afraid....perhaps _*if*_ I ever find myself with plenty of spare(?!) time on my hands I just might be tempted to get the tools out and have a go (but I wouldn't count on it, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Glad you too find the EL3Ns to be the drivers to beat - your 'system synergy' is obviously just right also, lol...
  
 And thanks too for your kind words @pctazhp and @UntilThen...can't wait for the final results of your mammoth task, UT - once your poor ears and head have had time to assimilate it all!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
@arie123...your use of shrink tubing on those marshmallows looked really good - and yes, I too hope heat doesn't spoil your handiwork, lol!...well done...
  
 HAPPY LISTENING everyone....


----------



## connieflyer

Glad you are liking your Elise B-60,  did you have a chance to read the serial number? The rest of us "waiters"  are jealous!


----------



## B-60

Hi all, thank you so much,
 I have to look this up ,I did put Elise as a pre-amp duty in my main sytem at this moment, and I would have to say I am very impressed with the sound signature.
 I know it will get much better with time , I have lots of time on my hands.
 Cheers


----------



## B-60

connieflyer said:


> Glad you are liking your Elise B-60,  did you have a chance to read the serial number? The rest of us "waiters"  are jealous!


 
 SHE is #0042 and two years younger then me...lol


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> LOL @B-60 ... right out of the box it is VERY GOOD. Haha who would have known. I was actually quite sad for you when you said you were asking for a refund. Sad because you would have missed an opportunity to listen to an exquisite sound from Elise.
> 
> Congrats and was that listening with your HEX?
> 
> Why does your unit look so black and new...


 
 Thank you UT, so far so good, she is in my main system and sound very good already,
 I go myself new pre and hp amp.
 Back downstairs I go!!!


----------



## Fervent

b-60 said:


> SHE is #0042 and two years younger then me...lol


 
  
 Got mine last thursday at last and she's #0043  Placed the order on the 18th of January and recieved the parcel at my doorstep on the 17th of March.
 Couldn't resist getting some extra tubes while waiting, so after almost a week of listening with the stock tubes I swapped to 2x EL3N as drivers and Tung Sol 6BL7GTA as powers. All I can say is "wowaweewa!". My HD650 has never sounded this good!
 Have been listening to Fleetwood Mac - Dreams as a kind of reference tune as a baseline as I don't really have calibrated audiophile ears  
 It seems to me like the new setup really tightened up the sound, especially the base. I found the stock tubes to be a tab bit "flat", or less engaging might be a better term.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> My Mazda 6N7G tubes have the letters MO on the glass. Maybe made by Marconi-Osram - GEC territory.




I would not bet on that, but I'm not a betting man anyway.


----------



## UntilThen

fervent said:


> Got mine last thursday at last and she's #0043  Placed the order on the 18th of January and recieved the parcel at my doorstep on the 17th of March.
> Couldn't resist getting some extra tubes while waiting, so after almost a week of listening with the stock tubes I swapped to 2x EL3N as drivers and Tung Sol 6BL7GTA as powers. All I can say is "wowaweewa!". My HD650 has never sounded this good!
> Have been listening to Fleetwood Mac - Dreams as a kind of reference tune as a baseline as I don't really have calibrated audiophile ears
> It seems to me like the new setup really tightened up the sound, especially the base. I found the stock tubes to be a tab bit "flat", or less engaging might be a better term.


 

 Congrats Fervent. 
  
 Looks like you didn't have to wait too long for yours. Yes the EL3N and 6BL7 will sound much better than the stock tubes. HD650 sounds very good with Elise. I have been using it quite a lot lately. It really shines in this setup.
  
 Dreams is a good song. Nice drums intro and Stevie Nicks's voice is great.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Thank you UT, so far so good, she is in my main system and sound very good already,
> I go myself new pre and hp amp.
> Back downstairs I go!!!


 

 What a bonus isn't it? You got yourself a good hp amp as well as a good tubes preamp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did have a lot of fun using it on my lounge stereo system but you must try the headphone soon and tell me if the HEX works with Elise. Did you end up getting the T1 G2 as well?


----------



## Fervent

untilthen said:


> Congrats Fervent.
> 
> Looks like you didn't have to wait too long for yours. Yes the EL3N and 6BL7 will sound much better than the stock tubes. HD650 sounds very good with Elise. I have been using it quite a lot lately. It really shines in this setup.
> 
> Dreams is a good song. Nice drums intro and Stevie Nicks's voice is great.


 

 Thanks!
  
 Well worth the wait. And now my man-cave-corner of the apartment is finally complete (no girlsfriends or dogs allowed). I did win an auction for a couple of Chatham 6AS7G ubes and am quite curious as to how they compare to the 6BL7 tubes as drivers when they finally arrive.
 On a sidenote, inserting the EL3N into the adaptors wasn't as smooth as I had first thought. Luckily the lightbulbs will tolerate quite a lot of force before they break


----------



## UntilThen

fervent said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Well worth the wait. And now my man-cave-corner of the apartment is finally complete (no girlsfriends or dogs allowed). I did win an auction for a couple of Chatham 6AS7G ubes and am quite curious as to how they compare to the 6BL7 tubes as drivers when they finally arrive.
> On a sidenote, inserting the EL3N into the adaptors wasn't as smooth as I had first thought. Luckily the lightbulbs will tolerate quite a lot of force before they break


 

 It's everyone's experience getting the EL3N into the adapters the first time. You should allow the girlfriends and dogs a listen too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats again on winning the Chatham 6AS7G. I love the EL3N and Chatham setup. 
  
 I won an auction for a pair of Tung Sol 7236 for $63 yesterday. This is my last purchase... I hope.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Using 2xBL and 2x6N7G the gain is a little lower than 4xBL, but not a problem for me. Did you try 2xBL + 20/31 combo? Should be 5.5A since the FDD20 has it's own 12V power supply.
> 
> I think this will be my next project after getting used to "I'll have that" lol.....


 

 Mordy, I'm kicking back and enjoying the music now. I'll let you do the rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You can tell me how 2xBL + 20/31 sounds.
  
 I've enough of rolling for more than a week. Just settle back into 6xEL3N mode.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> You should allow the girlfriends and dogs a listen too. :bigsmile_face:




And don't forget the cats! (This is the internet after all.)


----------



## Fervent

untilthen said:


> It's everyone's experience getting the EL3N into the adapters the first time. You should allow the girlfriends and dogs a listen too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats  Looking forward to reading your verdict on them!
  
 Girlfriend might get to socialize with my newfound secret lover, but the dog burned his bridges the minute he stole one of the EL3N cartons with the tube inside and begun chewing it up. Luckily my dog-owner senses started to tingle when an eerie quietness developed in the livingroom, myself being in the kitchen. Ofcourse I had made the misstake of placing the tubes accessible on a shelf and Oscar the dog just acted on the new funny scent. I got there just in time to save most of the box from annihilation.
 Here he is sniffing the Elise parcel last thursday when it arrived.


----------



## hypnos1

fervent said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Well worth the wait. And now my man-cave-corner of the apartment is finally complete (no girlsfriends or dogs allowed). I did win an auction for a couple of Chatham 6AS7G ubes and am quite curious as to how they compare to the 6BL7 tubes as drivers when they finally arrive.
> On a sidenote, inserting the EL3N into the adaptors wasn't as smooth as I had first thought. Luckily the lightbulbs will tolerate quite a lot of force before they break


 
  
 Congrats and welcome to the club, Fervent...glad you like the EL3Ns already - just you wait, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And I'm sure you'll love the Chathams (as _*powers?*_) when they arrive...look forward to your impressions further down the road...
  
 ps. Glad also you didn't break those EL3Ns, lol!


----------



## Fervent

hypnos1 said:


> Congrats and welcome to the club, Fervent...glad you like the EL3Ns already - just you wait, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks! And yes, I meant powers ofcourse  Next step would be to get the T1 I suppose. Just need to justify the expenses to myself and the girlfriend (mostly the girlfriend).


----------



## Oskari

fervent said:


> Oscar the dog




Such a great name! Even for a dog. Lol.


----------



## hpamdr

Welcome abroad Fervent, B-60.. I hope you will enjoy Elise, take your time as it is key to have elise burned and after to have tube give the best !


----------



## Fervent

Thankls
 Just out of curiosity, what is the burn-in time for the EL3N?


----------



## hypnos1

fervent said:


> Thanks! And yes, I meant powers ofcourse  Next step would be to get the T1 I suppose. Just need to justify the expenses to myself and the girlfriend (mostly the girlfriend).


 
  
 For me - and others - the T1s are just perfect for Elise + EL3N...and (Gen1) should be available at a very good price, with Gen 2 on the scene...this amp/tube combo solves the Gen 1 treble 'issue' that _some_ owners have commented on, but which others find no problem with - different ears, different gear etc.. I personally found my beloved Siemens C3g'S' drivers just a tad over-bright for my T1s, especially when I want to turn up the juice!...but a Godsend for the Senn HD650s LOL!
  
 So do _*whatever*_ is necessary to keep the girlfriend happy and on your side - you won't regret it!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Aaahhh but O...do you have the _patience_ to get those EL3Ns to their 'sweet spot' lol?!!!...I sincerely hope so.  But whatever, I'm glad you're enjoying the C3gs...not to mention those GEC 6080s... ...




I would think so, eventually.

I'd guesstimate that we're at 100 hours or so with the EL3Ns.

I do like them, too. They've just been having a lengthy rest period.


----------



## hypnos1

fervent said:


> Thankls
> Just out of curiosity, what is the burn-in time for the EL3N?


 
  
 For me, 200 hrs hit what I first thought a 'sweet spot'...but they continued to improve way beyond this - and my current estimate would be nearer 400+ hrs to be _*REALLY*_ sweet! So patience is the order of the day here, F...and you will indeed be _WELL_ rewarded...
  
 ps..Oh, and by the way, don't forget that many _short_ sessions burn-in the tubes quicker than fewer _long_ ones...


----------



## Fervent

hypnos1 said:


> For me, 200 hrs hit what I first thought a 'sweet spot'...but they continued to improve way beyond this - and my current estimate would be nearer 400+ hrs to be _*REALLY*_ sweet! So patience is the order of the day here, F...and you will indeed be _WELL_ rewarded...


 

 Well I'm in no hurry. They're not exactly a pain to listen to as they are now, but it will be interesting to see how they develop. This whole head-fi hobby just got so much more rewarding with an Elise to tinker with


----------



## hypnos1

fervent said:


> Well I'm in no hurry. They're not exactly a pain to listen to as they are now, but it will be interesting to see how they develop. This whole head-fi hobby just got so much more rewarding with an Elise to tinker with


 
  
 Hope you saw my previous post's edit, F...and glad you obviously have that rare gift - _*patience!*_




  
 I suppose the most obvious changes/improvement come within Oskari's 100 hrs...but they do continue to get MUCH better beyond that - depending on the rest of your equipment, of course (especially the cans!)...


----------



## pctazhp

@B-60 and @Fervent. So great to see you new guys coming on board. I strongly feel you have made a decision you will be happy with for a very long time. I've had my Elise since January and I marvel every single day when I turn it on and start listening.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  


> "Originally Posted by *mordy*
> 
> 
> 
> My Mazda 6N7G tubes have the letters MO on the glass. Maybe made by Marconi-Osram - GEC territory."


 
_I would not bet on that, but I'm not a betting man anyway._
  
 Well, if MO doesn't mean Marconi-Osram, then it probably stands for being made in Missouri (MO), USA.....
  
  
 Hi Fervent,
  
 Welcome on board! How many 6BL7 do you use with the EL3N? If you use 2 x BL, there will be a great improvement with 4 x BL, but it necessitates external power.
  
  
 Hi B-60,
  
 I like your joke about the age of the Elise:
  
_SHE is #0042 and two years younger then me...lol_
  
 That would make my #009 60 years younger than me lol.....


----------



## vince741

b-60 said:


> SHE is #0042 and two years younger then me...lol


 

 So this is because of you that I don't have "the _answer to life_ the universe and everything" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Mine is 41)


fervent said:


> Got mine last thursday at last and she's #0043


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I like it too and it's not corny.




Oh yes, it is! 




untilthen said:


> I'll share this song courtesy of H1.




Too many darn hippies! 


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/EIhSnaqou0I[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

I vote Oscar the dog as the post of the day.


----------



## UntilThen

@Fervent  I had the 7236 before but sold it to pctazhp. It's similar to 5998 but not quite.  Gain is similar to 5998, much higher than 6AS7G.
  
 At this price it's a bargain. Woo Audio is selling NOS at $250 a pair.


----------



## mordy

Nyet UT,
  
 The dog of the day is the 20/31 combo with 6BL7. This combination is very unsatisfactory. The FDD20 side is quite good, but the ECC31/BL sounds thin and anemic, and there is a large imbalance in gain. Add to that a large amount of hum and microphonics, and I'd say I've hit a dead end.
  
 Back to the Mazda 6N7G/BL combination - oh so beautiful.....
  
 Quit and serenity from the deck of the Elise.......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Nyet UT,
> 
> The dog of the day is the 20/31 combo with 6BL7. This combination is very unsatisfactory. The FDD20 side is quite good, but the ECC31/BL sounds thin and anemic, and there is a large imbalance in gain. Add to that a large amount of hum and microphonics, and I'd say I've hit a dead end.
> 
> ...


 

 Nyet is no I suppose 
  
 Good try, Saves me from trying it. I tried FDD20 with 4x6BL7 and gain was low and there's distortion at 11am on HE560. On T1 and HD650, sound is thick. So sadly that wasn't a good combo too.
  
 I did like 2xEL3N and 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7. Especially with a brighter sounding Sylvania 6SN7GTB.
  
 2xEL3N and 4x6SN7 sounded nice too, just a lighter tone.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> And don't forget the cats! (This is the internet after all.)


 

 Purr - fect !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

fervent said:


> Thanks! And yes, I meant powers ofcourse  Next step would be to get the T1 I suppose. Just need to justify the expenses to myself and the girlfriend (mostly the girlfriend).




Congrats Fervent!

Are you Serial Number 0043? Plate on the bottom shows the number.

Great amp, your going to love 'er!


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Well, if MO doesn't mean Marconi-Osram, then it probably stands for being made in Missouri (MO), USA.....


 
  
 Hej, Mordy! Hur mår du?
  
 I don't think it stands for Missouri. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If this were a French Army tube, that MO would be a number referring to a unit.
  
 This is a French Air Force tube, however, and we don't know what the MO refers to.
  
 It might refer to an AFB, say Mont-de-Marsan, but this is just a guess.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Jag skojade bara.  (This means in Swedish that I was just joking [about the state of Missouri origin of the Mazda tube]).
  
 Part of the tube mystique is the many unknowns. The Tung Sol factory site, which is a shopping mall today, is within driving distance of my house, but very little information is available about the factories. We can't even decipher the TS date codes.
  
 I am using two TS 6BL7GTA tubes. After the factory EIA number of 322 it says KR3 and NZ3. The number 3 may refer to the Newark factory, but the other letters I have not been able to find out what they mean. One other TS labeled tube that I have was made by GE and has the date code 519-3 on it - week 19 1955(?) factory 3.
  
 Tung Sol bought NU (National Union) in the early 50's. I have a 6BL7 NU tube (broken) with the date code 54/13, but it looks like a Sylvania made tube. And so on.....
  
 So there is no surprise that we cannot find out what MO means on the Mazda tubes.....The date code is III  8. Does it mean August 1953? 1963? March 1958? March 1948? Eighth week 1953/63?
  
 As far as I am concerned, you are our resident tube detective. What do you think?


----------



## Audict123

hpamdr said:


> When you use C3g or EL3N tube as driver you use only one "strapped triode" by side and the Elise is working great with it. In the Elise both triodes (inside a tube)  are working in parallel. It allows to run one or two without cutting the signal destroying your amp puting the fire in your house....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I realised that the C3Gs and EL3N both were singles too, but I thought that the adapters might contain double wires from the tubes A K and G1 pins to both triode inputs on the Elise to achieve that. With your clear explanation, I now see that that is not necessary.  Thanks for getting me out of the dark on this hpamdr.


----------



## WB2016

fervent said:


> Congrats  Looking forward to reading your verdict on them!
> 
> Girlfriend might get to socialize with my newfound secret lover, but the dog burned his bridges the minute he stole one of the EL3N cartons with the tube inside and begun chewing it up. Luckily my dog-owner senses started to tingle when an eerie quietness developed in the livingroom, myself being in the kitchen. Ofcourse I had made the misstake of placing the tubes accessible on a shelf and Oscar the dog just acted on the new funny scent. I got there just in time to save most of the box from annihilation.
> Here he is sniffing the Elise parcel last thursday when it arrived.



 


Yeah those EL3Ns smell fantastic, " It smells like,... the 60s" always remings me of opening a sealed away treasure from the late 50s or 60s.
Fantastic, almost half the fun and what dog could resist that with their superior smell. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> fervent said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats
> ...


 
  
 Those were the days WB...long since gone alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(Mind you, there was no Elise back then, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but there is now...she is just what those EL3Ns were waiting for!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...


----------



## hypnos1

*HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!.....*
  
                                          Hope you all have a great weekend...and manage to fit in some quality Elise time....CHEERS!
  
CJ


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> *HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!.....*
> 
> Hope you all have a great weekend...and manage to fit in some quality Elise time....CHEERS!
> 
> CJ


 

 Thanks Colin, have a wonderful weekend and Enjoy !


----------



## UntilThen

Happy Easter everyone and enjoy your Elise.


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Those were the days WB...long since gone alas!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well the sixties were quite a bit before my time, but I know the smell very well when searching through vintage sealed things, especially audio, such as Wurlitzer and finding sealed boxes. Somehow they really liked bunkering things in the 60s it seems. Really fun to have that other smell. Made me want to order another pair of EL3Ns just for that. You could actually leave the amp on with the EL3Ns if the Elise will take it. That way they will burn in far faster. Say if you have 6xEL3Ns. this will reduce the burn in considerably. Probably a good idea to turn the Elise off every once in a while, but the EL series can run more than a year left on 24/7.

Cheers 
WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

Happy Thursday evening to all the *LUCKY* ones...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> March 1958? March 1948?




I'd guess the above.


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Those were the days WB...long since gone alas!
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB...I hear you re leaving tubes running for extended periods beyond available listening time...BUT...it's generally not advised to leave a tube amp running unattended, lol - drastic things _can_ suddenly happen if you're _extremely_ unlucky, alas. I wouldn't risk it myself - not _too_ often, anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Apparently the stress of frequent on/offs speeds up the 'burn-in'....so I suppose a mix of the two could be the answer - so long as you are at least in the house during the longer sessions!...( the way the EL3Ns keep the amp running nicely cooler than normal should presumably help _reduce_ the slight risk somewhat...but only guessing here!).
  
 Cheers and HAPPY HOLS WB!


----------



## JazzVinyl




----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


>


 
 This is big army of tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Better not leave this unattended!!!


----------



## jerick70

hypnos1 said:


> Hi WB...I hear you re leaving tubes running for extended periods beyond available listening time...BUT...it's generally not advised to leave a tube amp running unattended, lol - drastic things _can_ suddenly happen if you're _extremely_ unlucky, alas. I wouldn't risk it myself - not _too_ often, anyway! :wink_face:
> 
> Apparently the stress of frequent on/offs speeds up the 'burn-in'....so I suppose a mix of the two could be the answer - so long as you are at least in the house during the longer sessions!...( the way the EL3Ns keep the amp running nicely cooler than normal should presumably help _reduce_ the slight risk somewhat...but only guessing here!).
> 
> Cheers and HAPPY HOLS WB!




@WB2016 I had an "incident" with my Rogue Cronus Magnum II speaker amp a few months back. ZAP...BOOM....BAM! There was a huge light show and horrible noises coming from my speakers. It scared the crap or of me! It was like a KISS concert from the 80s. Lol! One of the KT120 tubes shorted and melted down quite a few of the internals in my amp. Fortunately it was under warranty. I was there so I turned it off post haste. If I wouldn't have been there you would have been reading about my house burning down in the news paper. I've always had the "it's not going to happen to me" attitude before this happened but have since changed that. I check the bias every time I turn the amp on now. At any rate never ever leave your tube gear running when your not there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Danger of fire, is one reason that Tube gear largely went away, decades ago. Especially tube gear that ran at lethal voltages.

Definitely good advice for all, to not leave it running, unattended.

Cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> This is big army of tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Too many possible shorting scares for me I'm afraid, B-60 - four tubes are more than enough for me, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. Sorry you had to learn the hard way @jerick70, but glad you were still in warranty - not to mention there wasn't any more drastic outcome!!


----------



## B-60

hypnos1 said:


> Too many possible shorting scares for me I'm afraid, B-60 - four tubes are more than enough for me, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So what four tubes are you running in your Elise???
 I will be using Elise in my main system as a Pre-amp for most times,
 I did talk to Lukasz about this , he did said that the driver tubes are the most important, but the amp still passing signal  through the power tubs so I think I would like to change this ASAP from the stock tubes, what is your take on this?
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> So what four tubes are you running in your Elise???
> I will be using Elise in my main system as a Pre-amp for most times,
> I did talk to Lukasz about this , he did said that the driver tubes are the most important, but the amp still passing signal  through the power tubs so I think I would like to change this ASAP from the stock tubes, what is your take on this?
> Cheers


 

 He has EL3N with GEC 6AS7G.
  
 I find EL3N with 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G amazing but I like 6xEL3Ns particularly.


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> So what four tubes are you running in your Elise???
> I will be using Elise in my main system as a Pre-amp for most times,
> I did talk to Lukasz about this , he did said that the driver tubes are the most important, but the amp still passing signal  through the power tubs so I think I would like to change this ASAP from the stock tubes, what is your take on this?
> Cheers


 
  
 Hi B-60.
  
 As UT says, my 'end game' system is now EL3N drivers (which need adapters - I adapted mine myself), and GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834 (6AS7G) powers. Unfortunately, these power tubes are now rather expensive - the latest best price NOS seems to be a Canadian ebayer offering them at $400 a pair, and they (very!) rarely come up used, alas.
  
 I personally found the Chatham (or Tung Sol/Chatham - with COPPER rods) 6AS7G to be extremely good, and others have found the 5998 to be excellent also.
  
 With all these tubes, no external heater power supply is needed. If you look back over my history, you will find I also loved the C3g driver...then the ECC31; Philips FDD20 (with ext'l 12V PS) -  all also needing adapters. There is, of course, a wide variety of 6SN7s that Elise was actually configured for - with info scattered here, over at the Elise Tube Rolling thread, and of course 2 specific 6SN7 threads. But luckily, Elise has proved amazingly flexible in the tubes that we can in fact use, even if not officially recommended by Feliks-Audio.
  
 And so, mon ami, there is a bewildering choice of drivers especially - perhaps _too_ large, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and of course the usual caveats apply : depending upon the rest of the system, ears, preferences etc. etc....GOOD LUCK!!...CHEERS!


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> He has EL3N with GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> I find EL3N with 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G amazing but I like 6xEL3Ns particularly.


 
 Thank you UT, do I need different adaptors for the power tubes VS driver tubes.
 As you know I am using EL3N's as driver tubes.


----------



## B-60

hypnos1 said:


> Hi B-60.
> 
> As UT says, my 'end game' system is now EL3N drivers (which need adapters - I adapted mine myself), and GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834 (6AS7G) powers. Unfortunately, these power tubes are now rather expensive - the latest best price NOS seems to be a Canadian ebayer offering them at $400 a pair, and they (very!) rarely come up used, alas.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you very much for that info H1,
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Thank you UT, do I need different adaptors for the power tubes VS driver tubes.
> As you know I am using EL3N's as driver tubes.


 

 6xEL3N is effectively this
  


 So you'll need different adapters for the power slots. You'll need 2 of these:-
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> 6xEL3N is effectively this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you UT, OK so that is for 6 of the EL3N, how about four EL3N ,power and driver, same adopter as the driver in place of power tubes, this that make sense


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Thank you UT, OK so that is for 6 of the EL3N, how about four EL3N ,power and driver, same adopter as the driver in place of power tubes, this that make sense


 

 For four EL3N, you'll use the same adapters as for the front ones. TJ runs that. Here's a picture.
  

  
  
 This works with my T1 and HD650 but not the HE560.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> For four EL3N, you'll use the same adapters as for the front ones. TJ runs that. Here's a picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Perfect, I thought that is what it was , Thank you UT.
 Will order some more tube adopters and two more tubes.
 I am sure this will work well with my HEX, I am running volume between 9 and 10 with plenty volume.
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> Perfect, I thought that is what it was , Thank you UT.
> Will order some more tube adopters and two more tubes.
> I am sure this will work well with my HEX, I am running volume between 9 and 10 with plenty volume.
> Cheers


 

 Can you tell me more of how the HEX sounded with 2xEL3N and 2 x stock power tubes? Does it work? 
  
 Btw order your EL3N from Acoustics Dimension. Just email Peter. His price is 20 euro each plus shipping.


----------



## B-60

UT, be so kind and check this out, is this going to work ???
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Tubes-EL3-TUNGSRAM-2-Pieces-NOS-NIB-1-pair-10-available-/391390417848?hash=item5b20afd3b8:g:e0QAAOSwzgRWyjuC
  
 Thank you so much.


----------



## UntilThen

I just tried four EL3Ns with HE560. At 9 to 10am it's good. No distortions. 10am is reasonably loud. With any luck it might work for your HEX.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Can you tell me more of how the HEX sounded with 2xEL3N and 2 x stock power tubes? Does it work?
> 
> Btw order your EL3N from Acoustics Dimension. Just email Peter. His price is 20 euro each plus shipping.


 
 This combo working very well , lots of gain and drives HEX very well , good control on the bass notes, very fast and just balanced from top to bottom.
 Very nice.


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> UT, be so kind and check this out, is this going to work ???
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Tubes-EL3-TUNGSRAM-2-Pieces-NOS-NIB-1-pair-10-available-/391390417848?hash=item5b20afd3b8:g:e0QAAOSwzgRWyjuC
> 
> Thank you so much.


 

 No wait why would you pay $40 for a single Tungsram when you can buy a single Philips NOS EL3N from here
  
 http://www.acoustic-dimension.com
  
 click tubes & co on the top and then select NOS tubes. Price is 20 euro or 25 euro including VAT. You need to email Peter who is the owner. He will send you an invoice and then you pay him through Paypal. I got my 10 tubes from him.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> No wait why would you pay $40 for a single Tungsram when you can buy a single Philips NOS EL3N from here
> 
> http://www.acoustic-dimension.com
> 
> click tubes & co on the top and then select NOS tubes. Price is 20 euro or 25 euro including VAT. You need to email Peter who is the owner. He will send you an invoice and then you pay him through Paypal. I got my 10 tubes from him.


 
 Thank you so much UT, that is so good to be here, always good advise!!


----------



## UntilThen

b-60 said:


> This combo working very well , lots of gain and drives HEX very well , good control on the bass notes, very fast and just balanced from top to bottom.
> Very nice.


 

 This is really good news as you're the first person to try HEX with Elise and I'm glad that it works. I was concerned about the low impedance on the planar magnetic HiFiman HEX.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh I see ... the Tungsram is $40 for one pair. It's stated as EL3 but looks like EL3N to me but I have no way to be sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I suggest you get it from Peter whose stocks are Philips EL3N NOS.
  
 Has anyone tried these Tungsram EL3?


----------



## mordy

Hi B-60,
  
 Here is another combination that is worth considering and which does not require external power.
  
 2 x EL3N as drivers.
  
 2 x 6BL7 + 2 x 6N7G (Mazda/Visseux) as powers. Requires dual octal adapters. The 6N7G require adapters as well.
  
 The sound I get from this is delightful and IMHO betters 2 xEL3N + Chatham 6AS7G (with the copper rods).
  
 The current draw is well within the Elise parameters and the amp only gets slightly warm.
  




  
 The sounds keeps improving - don't know why. Maybe the EL3N are the ones responsible - the bass has gone from good to excellent.


----------



## B-60

untilthen said:


> Oh I see ... the Tungsram is $40 for one pair. It's stated as EL3 but looks like EL3N to me but I have no way to be sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know some one mention the difference between the two ,was it you JV??


----------



## B-60

mordy said:


> Hi B-60,
> 
> Here is another combination that is worth considering and which does not require external power.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you so much mordy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I do not want to get in to hard core external power adaptors, want to keep is simple.


----------



## UntilThen

Everyone's mileage is different. I wouldn't call 6BL7 better than Chatham 6AS7G. Not in my humble opinion.


----------



## B-60

Just emailed Peter for 4 more tubes,thank you UT!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Is your impression based on 2 or BL tubes?
  
 I do recognize that there may be a difference listening through headphones, and through speakers using the Elise as a preamp.
  
 When I compared 4xBL to the Chathams I preferred the BL tubes. With two BL tubes the Chatham was better.
  
 As you have pointed out so many times, there is no best tube, but the Elise has the flexibility that anyone should be able to find their favorite sound.
  
 B-60:
  
 To use adapters without external power supplies is just as easy as plugging in the electric plug in the wall - nothing to worry about. The EL3N cannot be used without adapters in the Elise. (But the tubes may be hard to insert into the adapters the first time.)


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hey B-60...

Everyone's milage _is_ different. Multiple 6BL7's are sonically superior to 6AS7, in my opinion. But my 6x setup does come with the necessity of heating the filaments externally. 

Understand not wanting to do that, especially by new owners.

You'll be perfectly happy with 6AS7 and staying within the confines of the 7 amp transformer in the Elise.

I would recommend you stay with the FA suggested tubes. 

A pair of Ken Rad VT231's (6SN7's) as drivers with a pair of Chatham's or 5998's as powers. 
Sounds really good and you could be perfectly happy with that, for years to come, 

No ugly/expensive adapters, or external heat, necessary.

Cheers!!


----------



## B-60

Thank you mordy.
 You said it , I had very hard time to put the tubes in the adapter, and they are not going out till they go bad, I am sure this will be long time before that happen.
 Four more EL3N on order so just have to order two more adapters from ebay now.
 Maybe will use only four of the EL3N for now and have a extra pair on hand,
 Thank you


----------



## B-60

jazzvinyl said:


> Hey B-60...
> 
> Everyone's milage _is_ different. Multiple 6BL7's are sonically superior to 6AS7, in my opinion. But my 6x setup does come with the necessity of heating the filaments externally.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for good recommendation here , I will keep this on top of my list,
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Mordy, I've said before that it's a moot point debating which is the best tubes for Elise. I can clearly see different preferences here and that is normal. There's lots of combinations that sounds good on Elise which is incredibly versatile. This is more important. There's bound to be some combination to please everyone. 
  
 What I'm more interested is in seeing how adaptable Elise is with different headphones. B-60's HiFiman Edition X is more like a baby HE-1000. With an impedance of 25 + or - 3 ohms and 103db, it's good to hear from B that it sounded good with Elise.


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi WB...I hear you re leaving tubes running for extended periods beyond available listening time...BUT...it's generally not advised to leave a tube amp running unattended, lol - drastic things _can_ suddenly happen if you're _extremely_ unlucky, alas. I wouldn't risk it myself - not _too_ often, anyway!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi Hypnos1,

Thanks for the tip. I had a discussion on the turning on off during burn in, a while back. The "best" people stated it will burn them in faster but supposedly not better??? Whole philosophy of proper burn in with good harmonic music going full spectrum 20-20Khz, much prefered over grey noise. Frequent turning on an off being somewhat detrimental to sound development potential, especially if excessive. But these are fanatics that spend more on cables than I spent on my last car, but most also work in recording or with professional recordering people. Its supposedly not just about the burn in but proper burn in, gently aging and waking up thhe tube. Akin to not putting shaking and bubbling up a good bottle of wine while decanting at the right temp. It becomes an art form (with many secret techniques and tracks and burning in sequences) but could also be complete vodoo. But those that take that amount of effort in all things audio tend to really have superior systems IMO, from experience. Again, probably few people will do this for a 40€ bulb but when you pay 2K+ for a pair you really want the max out of that bulb. Akin to vibration aerating is acceptable for a 20€ wine but not a Rotschild Gran Cru But both will likely benefit from proper decanting. 

Oh wait do we have a life and a few bulbs to burn in or are we clinical audiophiles??? You have to decide. 

Some swear on specific setups, like my installer friend specifically made for burning inclient tubes (mostly 300Bs), again I am not familiar with how the Elise will handle in such situations, circuit breakers. 

Previously experience burning in tubes is usually in around 8 hour sessions, e.g. when you sleep, or work, etc. Turning them off every 8 hours or so has been recommended as almost ideal. Some studio tubes will run music non stop for about 200-300 hours and say they get the best results that way, but they probably have technicians on site most of the time and different failsafe mechanisms.

I personally heard about risks but have not met anyone who personally knows someone who had issues with a good tube amp running unattended, who wasn't a complete idiot. (Know only one idiot who left for a weekend with a tube amp left on in a poorly vented inclosure and had a fire, we warned him repeatedly...). 
Please don'T do anything stupid and everything you do is at your own risk. Be careful, watchful, test your system, temps, always better to air on the side of caution, rember and plan, etc. Its like having a bathroom heater on, consult and plan with Murphys law before leaving it unattended for a period of time. 

Studios hate turning off tubes, so their experiences will not necessarily relate to us. They need to keep them at their peak and especially constant, which is far less of a concern for most "recreational" listeners. You cannot ask your recording artist to wait 2-4 hours until the system is warm.

Probably the best thing is during longer listening sessions to burn in tubes, or when you are asleep, or listening to speakers while the headphones burn in the tubes if you cannot deal with the sound.... But when you need 200-300 to reach that point everyone will have to know what is the right path there 

Remember though that frequent turning on off of bulbs will (and that has been tested many times) reduce your bulb life. Especially if done in quick successions. The EL series was designed to be left running very consistently for long times and don't particullarly like being turned on off frequently. Not sure how much this applies to other bulbs and at 40 Euros a bulb and 10,000 hours of sweet spot most will not care.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi WB...I hear you re leaving tubes running for extended periods beyond available listening time...BUT...it's generally not advised to leave a tube amp running unattended, lol - drastic things _can_ suddenly happen if you're _extremely_ unlucky, alas. I wouldn't risk it myself - not _too_ often, anyway!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Happy holidays back.


----------



## WB2016

jerick70 said:


> @WB2016 I had an "indecent" with my Rogue Cronus Magnum II speaker amp a few months back. ZAP...BOOM....BAM! There was a huge light show and horrible noises coming from my speakers. It scared the crap or of me! It was like a KISS concert from the 80s. Lol! One of the KT120 tubes shorted and melted down quite a few of the internals in my amp. Fortunately it was under warranty. I was there so I turned it off post haste. If I wouldn't have been there you would have been reading about my house burning down in the news paper. I've always had the "it's not going to happen to me" attitude before this happened but have since changed that. I check the bias every time I turn the amp on now. At any rate never ever leave your tube gear running when your not there.



 



Wow, I guess I now kind of know of someone else that had happed to. I actually know of more people who had issues with electric bathroom heaters than tube amps, (actually know a lot more people with electrical heaters than tube amps, so not that great a comparison) but both are by design far from ideal. And the one guy I knew who had a fire with an amp of his was repeatedly warned but liked the look in the cabinet... The cabinet caught fire when he left for the weekend. Amp shut down luckily and system. Fire alarm called through alarm system and his assistant finally extinguised the smoldering cabinet...That was a form of upselling

Sorry to hear about the amp, hope the speakers are OK. 

As in my reply to hypnos1, I should have been a bit more careful, and clear in being a bit sarcastic about the amp being shut off every once in a while 

 However it is true the EL series was specifically designed to be run long term consistent and is therefore liked by recording studios because of this and do not particularly like being turned on and off a lot. 

My recommendation is be careful with anything that can go wrong, especially if it has the potential for serious harm.

For me though I prefer leaving the amps on when burning in tubes while I sleep or am in different rooms (but still in the house or very close by), over turning off the amp if I do something close by. Especially if you are doing it for clients and have little time before project completion.

I lived in California long enough to rely on Murphys law, earhquakes will do that to you Makes you really paranoid about all that could go wrong, but at some point you (should) develop a slightly paranoid but working risk reward model for your actions. 

To Everyone, be smart don't risk things, tubes can cause fires and should not be left unattended


Checking bias should also help if this is an option. 

Cheers and happy Easter
WB


----------



## jerick70

I've been hearing so much about ZMF headphones I decided to purchased a pair of ZMF Blackwood Zebras in the classifieds.  They sound fantastic with the Elise!  VERY HAPPY with the work that @zach915m does with these custom headphones.  They not only sound out of this world but are GORGEOUS!  I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THESE HEADPHONES!!!!!
  
 Sorry for shouting... They are that good though!!!!  Here is some head-fi p0rn....


----------



## UntilThen

That looks nice. I thought I saw Massdrop having it as a drop. Wrong phone. It's a EMU.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> That looks nice. I thought I saw Massdrop having it as a drop. Wrong phone. It's a EMU.


 
 These are ZMF Blackwood headphones in Zebrawood.  http://www.zmfheadphones.com


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> These are ZMF Blackwood headphones in Zebrawood.  http://www.zmfheadphones.com


 

 Just read up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
Orthodynamic headphones created utilizing the Fostex t50rp driver. Custom made. Certainly looks interesting.


----------



## jerick70

These are officially my new favorite headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> These are officially my new favorite headphones.


 

 Can you give us some comparisons with your LCD2.2? Any similarities or how different? How's the bass on both?


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Can you give us some comparisons with your LCD2.2? Any similarities or how different? How's the bass on both?




Let me give them some more listening time and I will give some aural impressions between the two. The first difference that I notice they are supremely more comfortable than the LCD 2.2Fs. On the bass, it's to early to tell but look at the specs of the t50rp the driver only goes down to 15hz so it will not go as deep unless Zach had made some changes to boost the bass. I'll compare with my list of bass heavy songs and let you know.


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> Thank you mordy.
> You said it , I had very hard time to put the tubes in the adapter, and they are not going out till they go bad, I am sure this will be long time before that happen.
> Four more EL3N on order so just have to order two more adapters from ebay now.
> Maybe will use only four of the EL3N for now and have a extra pair on hand,
> Thank you


 
  
 Hi B-60...now you have sussed the EL3Ns and like their tone, I personally would stick with those - with the LONG burn-in especially, I found they outperform my highly-regarded Ken Rad VT231s; NU Black glass; Sylvania "Chrome top" 7N7; Melz metal-base 6N8S; PsVane CV181 TII...and not to mention the C3g...(which Glenn of Glenn amps intimates beats any 6SN7, lol!).
  
 Obviously, all these great tubes have their own signature, and will perform differently according to 'system synergy'...and will also appeal to different tastes. It all comes down to how much experimenting one wants to undertake...and the size of our "mad rollers" budget LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...)....CHEERS!!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi B-60...now you have sussed the EL3Ns and like their tone, I personally would stick with those - with the LONG burn-in especially, I found they outperform my highly-regarded Ken Rad VT231s; NU Black glass; Sylvania "Chrome top" 7N7; Melz metal-base 6N8S; PsVane CV181 TII...and not to mention the C3g...(which Glenn of Glenn amps intimates beats any 6SN7, lol!).
> 
> Obviously, all these great tubes have their own signature, and will perform differently according to 'system synergy'...and will also appeal to different tastes. It all comes down to how much experimenting one wants to undertake...and the size of our "mad rollers" budget LOL!!
> 
> ...


 

 As good as the Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top with 5998 sounds, it did not make my top 10 combinations in the past or now. I've preferred the ECC31, Mazda 6N7G, Visseaux 6N7G, Fivre 6N7G, 2031, FDD20 and EL3N over 6SN7. 6A6 included as well, as it is essentially similar sounding as 6N7G.
  
 You already have the EL3N tubes ordered. As H1 suggested, run with it first. You'll be astonished at how good it sounds, just as TJ and @pctazhp found out.


----------



## jerick70

To follow-up with my initial impressions of the ZMF Blackwoods vs the Audeze LCD-2.2F.  To give you a little taste of the differences, I'm going to list my notes here and build on them as I have time throughout the week.  This is a +/- list for the Blackwood.  It's Easter weekend so my listening is going  to take a back seat right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Audio Chain: Windows 10 PC - > JRiver Media Center ASIO ->Yulong DA8 II ASIO driver -> Audioquest Sidewinder RCA -> Feliks Audio Elise w/ EL3N drivers and Chatham 6AS7G Copper Rod Powers -> Custom Dyson Audio 4 core SPOCC litz cable -> Audeze LCD2F or ZMF Blackwood
  
 Source Content: Diana Krall's "Girl in the Other Room" in DSD64, AWOLNATION "Sail" for bass comparison in Tidal HiFi.    
  
*Blackwood*
  
 For
 1) More resolving - "Almost Blue" hammer strikes are much more detailed.
 2) Better treble extension
 3) Nice sizzle on cymbals. 
 4) No mid-bass sub-bass bleed = cleaner with more detail.  LCD2 has slight mid-bass to sub-bass bleed with Elise - Hadn't noticed this before - Diana Krall "Stop this World"- Smears the audio very slightly taking away from detail retrieval.
 5) Better instrument separation - more air between instruments
 6) High End seems more effortless - Everything about the headphone is effortless
 7) Larger airier sound stage and this is a closed headphone.
  
 Equal
 1) Bass is superb on both headphones.  I can't pick a winner or looser here.  Both output high quality gratuitous bass!
  
 Against
 1) Requires more power - 1 o'clock compared to 11 o'clock w/ LCD2
  
 The Blackwood takes many of the strengths of a headphone like the T1, marries those strengths to the LCD2s strengths, and rolls them into a beautifully crafted solid package.  
  
 The Blackwood is not a clinical headphone.  It has a touch of warm "sweetness" with lots of insight into the sonic detail of the music.


----------



## UntilThen

That's a great initial impression review. One that I like to see more of. How different headphones perform with Elise and associated gear.
 I read that the Blackwood is neutral and a solid lower mid bass. Your impressions reinforce that.
  
 Do you know the impedance and sensitivity of the Blackwood? I couldn't find it on their site.
  
 ps... I'm on Windows 10 and JRiver Media Center with NAD d1050 ASIO driver too. Good stuff.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> That's a great initial impression review. One that I like to see more of. How different headphones perform with Elise and associated gear.
> I read that the Blackwood is neutral and a solid lower mid bass. Your impressions reinforce that.
> 
> Do you know the impedance and sensitivity of the Blackwood? I couldn't find it on their site.


 
 Here are the specs of the *T50RPmk3.  It doesn't look like Zach publishes specs. There is a frequency response graph in the below link to ZMF's sight.** *
  
  
Driver:    Regular Phase (or Orthdynamic)
Impedance:    50 ohm
Sensitivity:    92dB (at 1kHz, 1mW)
Frequency Response:    15Hz – 35kHz
Maximum Input Power:    3000mW

- See more at: http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/New_RP-Series.shtml#content-3-tab-tab
  
 http://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmf-x-vibro-labs/


----------



## UntilThen

Ok that would explain why more volume is required. Impedance at 50ohm is not lower than the HE560 at 35ohm but sensitivity on both are low at 92db. However at 1pm, there's still a lot of juice left to drive them really loud. 
  
 If one love the LCD2 bass, there seems to be a lot going for it in the ZMF Blackwood too.
  
 From $649.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Ok that would explain why more volume is required. Impedance at 50ohm is not lower than the HE560 at 35ohm but sensitivity on both are low at 92db. However at 1pm, there's still a lot of juice left to drive them really loud.
> 
> If one love the LCD2 bass, there seems to be a lot going for it in the ZMF Blackwood too.


 
  
 I'm really impressed with the Blackwood.  So impressed that I've put in an order for the ZMF Omni.  The Omnis are supposed to be even better.  The final verdict is still out, but I will most likely sell my LCD2Fs.  I just won't need the LCDs any longer if the Blackwoods continue to excel in the long term.


----------



## UntilThen

One more question Jerick. You mentioned that the ZMF Blackwood are supremely more comfortable than the LCD2. Is it just the weight or do the ZMF earpads feel more comfortable? The Omni are their top of the line model and semi open, with lambskin or cowhide earpads.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> One more question Jerick. You mentioned that the ZMF Blackwood are supremely more comfortable than the LCD2. Is it just the weight or do the ZMF earpads feel more comfortable? The Omni are their top of the line model and semi open, with lambskin or cowhide earpads.


 
  
 It's primarily the weight.  The ear pads are pretty close to the same comfort.  I have the lambskin pads.  I had to adjust the clamp on the Blackwoods to get the best comfort.


----------



## connieflyer

I believe the pianist nailed this piece, the orchestration is decent but the pianist steals the show. Rhapsody in Blue.  About 13 minutes in, watching him makes my arthritis flare up!


----------



## UntilThen

Rhapsody in Blue is a nice piece. Timeless classic. I'm listening to my flac version by
  
 Kathryn Selby, Leon Bates; Richard Hayman: Richard Hayman Symphony Orchestra, Slovak Philharmonic Orchestra.


----------



## connieflyer

Talented people like this gives me hope for the future of our species


----------



## connieflyer

Of course for pure power, there is Wagner...


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Here is a four-handed piano piece:
  
 
  
 At the 5 min mark Jeff really takes off.......


----------



## mordy

And another one, aptly named "Fingerbreaker":


----------



## jerick70

I'm not sure Denis is considered a "Finger Breaker"....  But I really LOVE Rachmaninoff!


----------



## connieflyer

I grew up listening to ragtime, my parents of course, the Victrola was 78 rpm, and the records were heavvvvyyy . So many talented people, my talent was placing the records on the spindle, mother and grandmother played piano, because that is what they did, way back then!  Thanks for sharing, I too, like listening to Rachmaninoff.
   .


----------



## B-60

b-60 said:


> Thank you for good recommendation here , I will keep this on top of my list,
> Cheers


 
 Hi JV,
 I borrowed some 6SN7 tubes from my local audiophile Don and try them as driver in Elise and EL3N as power , and I lost lots of gain, in fact sound was distorted at 1pm with my HEX,So maybe I should go back to board #1 and rethink this a bit before I spend more money on EL3N's.
 Here is the picture of very good sounding VT-231 , very well balanced tube but not as wide open sounding as EL3N, so clear winner would be EL3N.
 I think I got myself very good preamp for my system, I love the sound signature, music is very directed to listening position with good control of the base ,But I found the top end is a bit aggressive for my preference.
 Lukasz said that as a preamp the power tubes as not as important at the driver tubes, and I think I am SET with driver tubes, on this note again, will be using Elise as a pre amp in my main system.
 I think I would like to upgrade the power tubes that will give me same output as the stock tubes but with more refined sound and as little self noise, I know this will be hard to balance without spending lot of money
 What your take on this?
 UT, what you think? mordy how about you??
 ,


----------



## connieflyer

One last one, if you did not do eight beats to the bar, well you just sat and listened to someone who could...
  
 
  
  
 or two


----------



## hypnos1

b-60 said:


> Hi JV,
> I borrowed some 6SN7 tubes from my local audiophile Don and try them as driver in Elise and EL3N as power , and I lost lots of gain, in fact sound was distorted at 1pm with my HEX,So maybe I should go back to board #1 and rethink this a bit before I spend more money on EL3N's.
> Here is the picture of very good sounding VT-231 , very well balanced tube but not as wide open sounding as EL3N, so clear winner would be EL3N.
> I think I got myself very good preamp for my system, I love the sound signature, music is very directed to listening position with good control of the base ,But I found the top end is a bit aggressive for my preference.
> ...


 
  
 Hi B-60...don't forget Elise herself needs a fair burn-in, not to mention the tubes, lol....treble will most surely settle down with time.
 I suspect you would need @UntilThen's 4x EL3Ns as powers...or else a nice pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs. With your EL3N drivers, the 4x 6BL7 option (which would be necessary at the very least) would require additional external heater power supply...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @UntilThen, when you get nearer the 400+ hrs mark on your EL3Ns, be sure to revisit Jeff Wayne's Musical version of "War of the Worlds" - you were blown away before... next time turn up the volume and be prepared to get blasted into space, mon ami!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....words fail, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

@B-60 as @hypnos1 pointed out, you will need 4xEL3N as powers or get a Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. There is a Tung Sol 7236 on sale now which is good too.
  
 With EL3N as drivers and any of those above mentioned power tubes, my HE560 sounded awesome. 
  
 Even 2xEL3N and 2xEL3N will have more gain than 2x6SN7 and 2xEL3N. If you're going to use EL3Ns as power tubes, use EL3N as drivers as well. I have 2xEL3N and 4xEL3N and it's my favorite combination. 
  
 BIG sound and wide open soundstage as you have experienced, except in 6xEL3N it's even more !!! Imaging is amazing. There's a sense of space and airs in instruments. Details and clarity are amazing. Excellent extensions to the top and bottom.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @UntilThen, when you get nearer the 400+ hrs mark on your EL3Ns, be sure to revisit Jeff Wayne's Musical version of "War of the Worlds" - you were blown away before... next time turn up the volume and be prepared to get blasted into space, mon ami!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Giving it a listen again now. Opening track is already awesome. I've over 300 hours on 6xEL3Ns now. Will post further impressions when I finish the album.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Giving it a listen again now. Opening track is already awesome. I've over 300 hours on 6xEL3Ns now. Will post further impressions when I finish the album.


 
  
 Can't wait, UT!!...


----------



## mordy

Ho B-60,
  
 You cannot go wrong with the suggestions from UT and hypnos1- these are top tier tubes. That said, adapters and 4xEL3N tubes will set you back almost $200. The Chatham may cost around $80/pair and up- not so many for sale.
  
 There is a current auction from a German seller of 18 6AS7G tubes  of which 12 look like Chatham tubes. They are used but test well. Don't know what price the auction will end at, but so far this may be a bargain.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-x-TUBES-CHATHAM-RCA-6AS7G-TESTED-/252328946413?hash=item3abffa2aed:g:rQgAAOSwxp9W8XsF
  
 If you are looking to save money the 6AS7GA tube may be a very good choice. A notch or two below the very best, but very nice sounding. ANY GE, RCA or Sylvania 6AS7GA is good - shop by price.
  
 Here is a lot of 7 for $5 each shipped:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-6AS7-GA-VACUUM-TUBES-RCA-GE-H654-/351687484926?hash=item51e23525fe:g:OecAAOSwHQ9WbC-4
  
 Good luck!


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Watched the two boggie woogie pieces - amazing proficiency. I find it very interesting that there are so many top notch piano players of boggie woggie, but much harder to find superb jazz bands that play in the classical styles with the the right feeling.
  
 Here is a Swiss piano player that IMHO brings out the emotional impact of boggie woggie: Silvan Zingg:


----------



## UntilThen

Wars of the World with Elise + 6xEL3N + T1.
  
 Sense of scale is frightening. There's vapors to the notes. You hear the instruments clearly and vocals are commanding. 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machines' track is full on. With bass pounding and orchestra in full flight, Richard's Burton's voice comes through loud and clear. His voice is arresting. 'Forever Autumn' slows the tempo down and is a sublime track. The emotion it conveys at 3:47am in the morning is unreal. 'I watch the birds fly south towards the Autumn Sky...and one by one they disappear.' I'm disappearing too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Aww goosebumps listening to this track. Musical notes pounding on my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have to listen to 'Spirit of Man' track 2 on Disc 2. Love Nathaniel and Beth singing. Nathaniel is going crazy and Beth is trying to keep him from going insane. I'm trying to remain sane too as the music pounded on. I need a shot of whisky here.


----------



## UntilThen

@Lord Raven is selling his Chatham 6AS7G. He has a stash of it. PM him. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This looks good too.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TungSol-7236-/141939392219?hash=item210c3f3edb:gyEAAOSwI3RW9H~l


----------



## UntilThen

EL3N and Mullard 6080 sounds good too. These are great looking Mullard 6080.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805:g:7rkAAOSwF1dUUiu7


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> EL3N and Mullard 6080 sounds good too. These are great looking Mullard 6080.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805:g:7rkAAOSwF1dUUiu7


 

 The one on the link comes from langrex, if you want a matched pair or precice version AJ0, AJ1, Date, get GEC 6080... It is better to ask for a quote directly !  (with or without VAT depending country....)
 You can ak for a quote and pay wih paypal.
  
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/contact-us-and-map.html
  
 If you can solder, it is easy/chip to build EL3N adapter with good wire. Dual/quad adapter needs more skills unless you have PCB or you can drill...


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> The one on the link comes from langrex, if you want a matched pair or precice version AJ0, AJ1, Date, get GEC 6080... It is better to ask for a quote directly !  (with or without VAT depending country....)
> You can ak for a quote and pay wih paypal.
> 
> http://www.langrex.co.uk/contact-us-and-map.html
> ...


 

 GEC 6080 would be very nice. Any idea how much? Seems like they have 2 in their stock list.


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> GEC 6080 would be very nice. Any idea how much?


 

 They have stock but price is somehow fluctuating.. To get an idea just ask them !


----------



## jerick70

Hey everyone.  I wanted to wish everyone a happy Easter!
  
 I wanted to give an update on the ZMF Blackwoods synergy with the Elise.  If you don't like a lot of bass you can plug the tuning holes on the bottom side of each ear cup and reduce the bass.  ZMF sends rubber plugs with the headphones.  These are exceptional headphones and get better each time I listen to them!  I'm really digging the synergy they have with the Elise.  Sound stage is incredible, with the Elise, for a closed back headphone.  And the presentation is sooooo liquid smooth with beautifully extended treble.  They sound good with all source material I've thrown at them.  Kudos to Zach for an incredible product!


----------



## JazzVinyl

b-60 said:


> Hi JV,
> I borrowed some 6SN7 tubes from my local audiophile Don and try them as driver in Elise and EL3N as power , and I lost lots of gain, in fact sound was distorted at 1pm with my HEX,So maybe I should go back to board #1 and rethink this a bit before I spend more money on EL3N's.
> Here is the picture of very good sounding VT-231 , very well balanced tube but not as wide open sounding as EL3N, so clear winner would be EL3N.




Hello B-60,

Try the 6SN7's with 6AS7 as powers, not with EL3N's as powers.

I also do not have any low impedance headphones, which could easily account for distortions you hear.

Maybe the EL3N's as drivers do work well with low impedance cans, I found them lacking with medium to high impedance cans,
My pair also got worse with use, not better, as reported by h1 and others.

Once I went multiple 6BL7's on my system, the sound was so improved over 6AS7 that I never looked back. Use of 3x 6BL7's per 6AS7 socket made the 6SN7's really sound superb (and again your in 'Low Impedance headphone land', while I am not). Same was true for
C3g, 6N7, 7N7 and ECC31...all of these greatly benefited from 3x 6BL7 as powers.

The output of Elise is OTL, but heavily buffered by nice audiophile caps, this accounts for why it can be used with low impedance cans at all (when normally OTL tube amps require high impedance cans to sound their best).

Whatever works best and sound the best with your cans...is best 

Ignore all other suggestions 

Cheers...


----------



## UntilThen

Jerick uses EL3N as drivers with Chatham 6AS7G and he's extremely happy with the sound from his LCD2.2 and ZMF Blackwood. Both low impedance and planar magnetic. H1 obviously loves his EL3N and GEC 6AS7G combination.
  
 With my headphones, which comprised low and high impedance headphones, dynamic and planar magnetic (T1, HD650 HE560), I get best results with EL3N as drivers with any of the following power tubes:-
  
 Tung Sol 5998
 Tung Sol 7236
 Chatham 6AS7G
 Mullard 60080
  
 Running 6SN7 is fine with 6AS7 but as @B-60 observed himself, replacing the 6SN7 with EL3N as drivers, gives a wider, more spacious soundscape, 3D, holographic, euphonic sound. This is what we have experienced before with Mazda 6N7G and FDD20 but EL3N sounds more linear and has excellent extensions to the top and bottom.
  
 6xEL3N is also amazing. Just ask @pctazhp and check his past impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> Hey everyone.  I wanted to wish everyone a happy Easter!
> 
> I wanted to give an update on the ZMF Blackwoods synergy with the Elise.  If you don't like a lot of bass you can plug the tuning holes on the bottom side of each ear cup and reduce the bass.  ZMF sends rubber plugs with the headphones.  These are exceptional headphones and get better each time I listen to them!  I'm really digging the synergy they have with the Elise.  Sound stage is incredible, with the Elise, for a closed back headphone.  And the presentation is sooooo liquid smooth with beautifully extended treble.  They sound good with all source material I've thrown at them.  Kudos to Zach for an incredible product!


 
 The pictures just get better. 
  
 Tunable bass, provides lots of flexibility. Love the wood. Adds a special appeal. More importantly the tonal characteristics described.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Wars of the World with Elise + 6xEL3N + T1.
> 
> Sense of scale is frightening. There's vapors to the notes. You hear the instruments clearly and vocals are commanding. 'Artilleryman and the Fighting Machines' track is full on. With bass pounding and orchestra in full flight, Richard's Burton's voice comes through loud and clear. His voice is arresting. 'Forever Autumn' slows the tempo down and is a sublime track. The emotion it conveys at 3:47am in the morning is unreal. 'I watch the birds fly south towards the Autumn Sky...and one by one they disappear.' I'm disappearing too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thought you might be impressed, UT...this work highlights all the qualities that Elise herself possesses - and taken to its peak especially by the EL3N driving good quality 6AS7G/6080s (@hpamdr's reminder of the merits of the GEC 6080 useful here) and, obviously, your 4x EL3N powers. I have never been taken quite so far "out of this World" while listening to _anything_, lol...which I think speaks more than any amount of 'audiophile' terms/descriptions.
  
 And even more remarkable is the fact that there are a good number enjoying this kind of EL3N magic with HPs ranging from 25ohm Ether  Cs to 600ohm Beyer T1s - what more could one wish for lol?!
  
 ps. Interesting numbers now re. EL3N sales : well over 100 tubes from Peter at Acoustic-Dimension alone; 63 single adapters and 15 doubles from xulingmrs....CHEERS everyone!


----------



## connieflyer

Moody Blues still one of the best.......


----------



## hypnos1

Yo connie...getting Justin Hayward to sing this for Jeff Wayne's "War of the Worlds" was one of those rare strokes of genius, to be sure...nice video too - thanks, c...


----------



## UntilThen

Awww @connieflyer that video melts me. Listening to this song again and seeing the scenery and lyrics....
  
 You're going to love your EL3N with the Thompson CSF 6080 that you've ordered with Wars of the World. I've been listening with EL3N and Mullard 6080 for one whole day and it's a very good combination. Stocks for Mullard 6080 are still in supply from Langrex and doesn't cost much.
  
 Someone bought the Tung Sol 7236 at $90. That's going to sound really good with EL3N.
  
 Thanks H1 for being the pioneer on this marvelous tube - EL3N. You adapted it and tried it and fed us the results over many weeks. The fact that you willingly shared the pin connections too and it's now possible for any Elise owners to enjoy this at a very reasonable low price. I can assure you that my collection of Mazda, Visseaux, Fivre 6N7G and 6A6, ECC31, C3G, FDD20 sounded amazing but the EL3N are my go to drivers now. The rest are sitting in the drawers.


----------



## UntilThen

eBay will occasionally email me and suggest some tubes. I just got a recommendation for this. $3499 down from $6500 ... a 46% savings !!! Really? A single tube cost this much?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231884076024


----------



## connieflyer

Glad you liked the Justin Haywood video, got a chance to see them on tour, oh probably before most of you were born!  Love their sound. I remember when they came out with "Days of Future Past" with an orchestra behind them.  The local radio stations, played it and laughed, like anyone would listen to an orchestra and rock!  It took off like crazy anyways.  A few had to eat their words.  Apparently that price is not to far out of the woods......http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Western-Electric-300B-Tube-Double-Square-Getter-NOS-NIB-Date-code-6513/291303448449?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150604093004%26meid%3Dfff378f028674d95b0834804e4ef4647%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D231884076024&rt=nc
  
 If you want them, and have the money, of course they would sound expensive!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Glad you liked the Justin Haywood video, got a chance to see them on tour, oh probably before most of you were born!  Love their sound. I remember when they came out with "Days of Future Past" with an orchestra behind them.  The local radio stations, played it and laughed, like anyone would listen to an orchestra and rock!  It took off like crazy anyways.  A few had to eat their words.


 

 I'm sure I was born when Justin sang this in 1978  I do envy that you watch them on tour !!! Oh that hairstyle is so 70s


----------



## connieflyer

These are the CF 6080's I bought, http://www.partsconnexion.com/NOS-79665.html 
 Ebay has them for $59 a pair.  Huge box, probably cost as much as the tubes inside!


----------



## connieflyer

Wish I still had that much hair!


----------



## aqsw

Any Canadians looking for NIB Beyer T1 2G?

Headphone Bar has them in stock (free shipping) $999.00 CDN. About 770 usd.

They only send to Canadian address though.

Darn, I wish I could afford a pair, but my car I just bought comes first.


----------



## mordy

Hi Folks,
  
  
 Do I have something for you 300B Western Electric buffs! Look at this $13 item:
  




  
 Here is the description:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/WE-274B-300B-350B-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-ORIGINAL-PAPER-WRAP-ONLY-NO-TUBE-NO-TUBE-/151969450125?hash=item236215c88d:g:yxkAAOSwUV9Wp1FF
  
 I think that I have the same wrapping paper from a pair of 1945 6AK5 tubes - make me an offer (without the tubes).....


----------



## JazzVinyl

One for Mordy....

C3gS as drivers, 2x 6n7G, 4x 6BL7 as powers.....








Cheers to all the LUCKY ones...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 I am selling some Chatham 6AS7G, special price for thread members at *90$* for a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, recently grabbed this DSD album, highly regarded on Elise thread, thought to share this with everyone hehe
  
 Thanks for suggesting good music, sounds superb on a Geek Pulse SFi!!!!!
  
 1 - The Coming Of The Martians
 2 - The World Under The Martians
  
 Cheers


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I am selling some Chatham 6AS7G, special price for thread members at *90$* for a pair


 
 There you go guys. Chatham 6AS7G at a very good price. You don't even see pairs on eBay now. These are great sounding 6AS7G. I find these even better than the Mullard 6080. They sound airy, fresh as a morning's breeze. The tone is clear, just the right touch of brightness, warm and lushness. Bass is impactful and extends low. With EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G in Elise, it's one of the best sounding combination you'll ever find.


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am selling some Chatham 6AS7G, special price for thread members at *90$* for a pair
> 
> ...


 
  
 In DSD, LR?...*WOWEE!!*...


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> There you go guys. Chatham 6AS7G at a very good price. You don't even see pairs on eBay now. These are great sounding 6AS7G. I find these even better than the Mullard 6080. They sound airy, fresh as a morning's breeze. The tone is clear, just the right touch of brightness, warm and lushness. Bass is impactful and extends low. With EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G in Elise, it's one of the best sounding combination you'll ever find.


 
 Thanks UT, accidently typed 80 in the sale thread and no one noticed it LOL I would have let it go for the same. Thread updated, and fingers crossed for the tubes I am going to get afterwards


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> In DSD, LR?...*WOWEE!!*...


 
 YESSIR, that's true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am a firm believer that you need a lot of zeros and ones in your digital recordings to make them sound better.. Album is 1.5 GB, my collection of DSD is going to hit 1000 albums soon.. And tubes are still trying to get to the 100 mark


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Thanks UT, accidently typed 80 in the sale thread and no one noticed it LOL I would have let it go for the same. Thread updated, and fingers crossed for the tubes I am going to get afterwards


 

 Just remember to save some money for a HD800 or T1.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Just remember to save some money for a HD800 or T1.


 
 You have totally changed my mind 
  
 I was aiming at GEC 6AS7G initially, with T1, my HD600 would be redundant LOL I think I should sell all my Chatham 6AS7G haha...


----------



## UntilThen

T1 and Hd600 are complimentary headphones. It won't be redundant.

T1 will be superb with all your DSD files. You may hear too much... ))


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, just wanted to say I miss hangin' out with everybody here. You all are a super great community. My circumstance ATM however hasn't permitted much time for Head-Fi recently. Maybe I'll try to get caught up on the past 50 or so pages when I can, unless there's some short recap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW I'm getting impatient for Ms. Elise - I thought I should expect it sometime this month, but still no word of it shipping yet! Do they usually send out shipping notices or does it just surprise you at your doorstep one day?


----------



## UntilThen

Hey Levi long time.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You'll be notified have no fear. The latest to get it are B-60 and Fervent. B-60 waited almost 12 weeks. They are both extremely happy with Elise so I reckon it's worth your wait.


----------



## connieflyer

UT, if you haven't gone to bed yet, have a listen the guitars at the start of this  Future World-New Beginnings.....


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT, if you haven't gone to bed yet, have a listen the guitars at the start of this  Future World-New Beginnings.....


 
 Wow this is really good. I paused whilst listening to a CD by Loreena McKennitt introduced by H1. Pretty amazing too. Ancient Muse.
  
 Wait till you get Elise and fire it away with your HD700.
  
 Thanks for this music. I'll bookmark it.


----------



## connieflyer

One thing that has really been an amazing journey for me, is being on alot of forums, and getting introduced to music I would never have sought out.  Even if youtube is not exactly hi fi, at least it gives you a chance to explore at no expense.  I get on there some nights, and just follow the mouse, it cliks I listen, I like, or I move on.  The wait is getting harder, but then, who wants to wait for something that is junk?  I have not read one review that downgraded the amp at all.  With all the contributions of forum members here to the adventure, it is a trip I am glad I am not going to miss, (unless I get to an early grave).  Thanks for all you help, and keep the music coming.


----------



## UntilThen

It's great having you here Don. You've introduced a lot of music to me and they have all been good. Thoroughly enjoyed it. So stick around please. I have to thank Levi for bringing you here.


----------



## connieflyer

Not planning on going anywhere yet!  To much to see,do and hear!


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to say I miss hangin' out with everybody here. You all are a super great community. My circumstance ATM however hasn't permitted much time for Head-Fi recently. Maybe I'll try to get caught up on the past 50 or so pages when I can, unless there's some short recap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you're still hangin' in there DL...hope you can manage a leisurely stroll through those pages - perhaps with the help of a little midnight oil, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(don't expect you do keep the 3 or 4am vigils that @UntilThen seems to manage sometimes - how do you do it, UT?!!).
  
 And even if there isn't a whole pile of new news, as @connieflyer and UT say, there's plenty of interesting music to lighten the load...and perhaps add to the repertoire!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Hope your wait is soon at an end, and you can share our joy...CHEERS!


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> \\\
> And even if there isn't a whole pile of new news, as @connieflyer and UT say, there's plenty of interesting music to lighten the load...and perhaps add to the repertoire!!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1 you are totally right. I can add that with Elise more than discovering new music you can digg into your old files and someting discover some burried jewels you did not paid attention before...
 I did some reorgs on my file/CD collection and using Elise it is hard to not listen the full track/album and had a lot of surprise even with some crappy music from the 80/90th


----------



## UntilThen

The weather's getting colder so I'm sleeping right through now, no more getting up at 3am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've been enjoying Loreena McKennitt's music, having been interested by H1's good review of it. From the CD itself, the quality is great. I hear great details and expansive soundstage using 6xEL3N and T1. It is 3D and euphonic. I can't believe these EL3Ns keeps improving.
  
 Being curious as to how 2xC3G and 4x6BL7 would sound with this music so I swapped over. Comparatively with the EL3N combo, the C3G combo is a leaner sound and the lushness and emotion is missing. Soundstage is also much narrower. What is more troubling is the high frequencies being too sharp and bass over powering. Returning to 6xEL3N, the music is pure bliss again.
  
@DecentLevi you're in for a treat with Elise and the 6xEL3Ns that you've gotten. Even the HD650 sounds great with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Be prepared to listen to your music collection over and over again.


----------



## Suuup

Elise has a new playmate:


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Elise has a new playmate:




Beautiful amp! Is that an Audio gd Compass? You will have to share how it stands up to the Elise.


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> Beautiful amp! Is that an Audio gd Compass? You will have to share how it stands up to the Elise.


 
 Oh yea, forgot to mention what it is.
  
 It's an Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC/amp. I will mainly use the DAC part.
 Got it for 100$ which is quite a steal.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> Oh yea, forgot to mention what it is.
> 
> It's an Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC/amp. I will mainly use the DAC part.
> Got it for 100$ which is quite a steal.


 

 $100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..... That's a steal.  How is the DAC? Where did you get it at?


----------



## Suuup

jerick70 said:


> $100
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I like it so far. Haven't had much time with it though. Installing the driver was a nightmare.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Oh yea, forgot to mention what it is.
> 
> It's an Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC/amp. I will mainly use the DAC part.
> Got it for 100$ which is quite a steal.


 
 Congrats. Audio Gd dac amps are well regarded and at that price amazing. The unit looks immaculate.


----------



## jerick70

suuup said:


> I like it so far. Haven't had much time with it though. Installing the driver was a nightmare.


 
  
 Does it have the XMOS usb in it?  I've had all sorts of problems with XMOS drivers.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Congrats. Audio Gd dac amps are well regarded and at that price amazing. The unit looks immaculate.


 
 Thanks man. I've heard good things about AGD also. 
  
  


jerick70 said:


> Does it have the XMOS usb in it?  I've had all sorts of problems with XMOS drivers.


 
 I don't think so. The Aune DACs I've tried all had the XMOS drivers, but they weren't too bad?


----------



## UntilThen

I heard the Audio Gd Master 6 driving the HD800S in balanced mode at the meet and it sounded fabulous.
  
 If I'm not mistaken, @Lorspeaker had the model you just purchased.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yes @HeatFan12 has it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really nice chap.
  
 Summary details - Discrete DAC + headphone amp + pre-amp, 32/384 async transfer usb chip, 32/192 Sabre ES9018
  
post #1


----------



## DecentLevi

Well, my Elise didn't come yet so I thought I'd cheat on her with this instead:
  

  
  
 PS...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Well, my Elise didn't come yet so I thought I'd cheat on her with this instead:


 
 Rats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I bet that sounds impressive on April 1st.


----------



## UntilThen

The last of the tubes arrived on the 1st of April. Elise is 5 months old now and I've retired from tube rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tung Sol 7236 at $63 a pair. Generous seller for letting go of a good pair at this price.
  
 Here's a song to brighten your 1st of April.
  

  
 Tung Sol 7236 flanked by Mullard 6080.


----------



## DecentLevi

Can't help but be hypnotized at how your tubes look like they're levitating in mid air 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - now that's proof somethin' special is goin on over there!
  
 I for one really believe in levitation but am still trying - and that's not an April Fools Day joke (my last one was in case you didn't get the reference)


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
  
 What? No EL3N?
  
  
  
 Hi DL,
  
 I think that the levitation is provided by Scotch tape......(the round white plastic wheel you get when you finish a roll of tape)


----------



## UntilThen

Well the attempt to run Mullards with Tung Sols was unsuccessful because they both wanted the power positions.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I grounded the levitating Mullards and gave these a go. Now we're talking. These sound very good. So who bought the $90 pair of Tung Sol 7236? Wonderful tubes indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy April the 1st !!!


----------



## UntilThen

This guy has 4 Tung Sol 7236 running.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I am exceedingly pleased with the external 20 amp 6.3v AC transformer and Mrs Xu's 3x per 6AS7 adapter.

Today, I and running ECC31 as drivers, 2x Mullard 6080's, 2x GE 6AS7GA's and 2x 6BL7's as powers.

Heating all tubes externally. 15 amps, with 5 amps to spare, Elise is cool as a cucumber. 

Noticing things never noticed before in familiar recordings, this is the reason you buy a tube amp...
To make it a 'different amp' with different tube configurations. So much more fun than an "always the same, SS amp".

Cheers to all the *LUCKY* ones!


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> H1 you are totally right. I can add that with Elise more than discovering new music you can digg into your old files and someting discover some burried jewels you did not paid attention before...
> I did some reorgs on my file/CD collection and using Elise it is hard to not listen the full track/album and had a lot of surprise even with some crappy music from the 80/90th




  
 And spot on re. old (almost) forgotten favourites...if anything, the joy of hearing them as never before is quite beguiling...not to mention often totally unbelievable, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...even more so than much newer (better?!) recorded material. Mind you, _some_ of the old'uns remastered in hi-res (when done _well_) are simply mind-blowing given the 'Elise Effect'...as exemplified by Sir Adrian Boult + LPO's now vintage recording of Holst's 'The Planets' - truly magical!
  


decentlevi said:


> Well, my Elise didn't come yet so I thought I'd cheat on her with this instead:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ye Gods DL...nearly had me going there, lol! You are most definitely suffering from *pre-Elise *withdrawal symptoms...and men in white coats might just be knocking on your door _very _soon, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So let's all pray she reaches you in the very near future...else you may just be doomed, mon ami!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps.  Hang in there, boy!!
  


suuup said:


> Oh yea, forgot to mention what it is.
> 
> It's an Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC/amp. I will mainly use the DAC part.
> Got it for 100$ which is quite a steal.


 
  
 A steal indeed!...even if just for the DAC, lol!...WELL DONE!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Oh yea, forgot to mention what it is.
> 
> It's an Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC/amp. I will mainly use the DAC part.
> Got it for 100$ which is quite a steal.




Crazy good deal, Suuup!

Congrats!


----------



## UntilThen

We survived April 1st. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad to receive some private messages from some of you, telling me how much you like the sound from Elise. I've not stopped listening since I've gotten it and it's so good with all of my headphones, T1, HE560 and HD650. I'm constantly swapping the headphones. 
  
 On another note, I'm impressed by the Tung Sol 7236 after a day of listening. Though similar to 5998, the sound is brighter and tighter. Less lush and warm. Comparatively speaking here. Both are stellar tubes for music. Pairs incredibly well with EL3N as drivers. 
  
 What I'm keen to hear from Suuup is how his Audio Gd NFB 11.32 is synergising with Elise. The dac is neutral and clean sounding and I believe should pair very well with Elise.
  
 ...and Jerick how is the ZMF Blackwood developing? Has it delegated the LCD2.2F to kitchen duties? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 B-60.... you owe me a one page review of the Hifiman Edition X with Elise.
  
 Fervent.... follow up impressions please. Hope Oscar hasn't eaten any of your tubes !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Here's some good tips on tube rolling which I unashamedly copied:-
  
   Swapping tubes is something that just about anybody can do. But there are some rules and cautions that you need to follow: 
  
 1. Turn the power off and WAIT FOR THE TUBES TO COOL before pulling them out! 
  
 2.  Make sure the right tube is in the right socket. 
  
 3. Don't power up the amp with a tube missing.
  


    4. Don't power up the amp with one cold tube.
 This is important, and not obvious: You can cause a temporary overload condition if you put in one cold tube along with others that are still warm, and turn the power back on. You really don't want your expensive headphones plugged in if this happens! The resulting "pop" sound could damage them (or your hearing). 
  
 5. Unplug your headphones.
 Just in case you get a bad tube, or don't observe the rules above, it's a good idea to unplug your headphones 
 when changing tubes. Wait until all the tubes are warm (maybe a minute) and then plug them in. 
  
 6. Be patient.
 Tubes take some time to "burn in". You can expect the sound of the tube to change, especially in the first 10-20 hours of operation, and then at a slower rate for up to 400 hours or so. Most tubes tend to improve with time, so if they sound a little rough at first (especially on the highs), be patient and wait a little to let the tube burn in. 
  
 7. Have fun.
 Don't take it all too seriously. Don't believe everything your hear - trust your ears! Don't be afraid to 
 experiment but do it safely ..... don't overload .... and don't spend all your money on tubes!


----------



## JazzVinyl

No combination of powers tubes that include 6AS7's outshines 6x 6BL7's in my system. They make "ordinary" drivers sound great. Here, a pair of "ordinary" Tung Sol 6SN7's combine with the 6x 6BL7's and sound like "expensive" driver tubes.


Cheers to all the LUCKY Elise owners (she is a magically capable tube amp).


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> No combination of powers tubes that include 6AS7's outshines 6x 6BL7's in my system. They make "ordinary" drivers sound great. Here, a pair of "ordinary" Tung Sol 6SN7's combine with the 6x 6BL7's and sound like "expensive" driver tubes.
> 
> 
> Cheers to all the LUCKY Elise owners (she is a magically capable tube amp).


 
  
 I'm sure I'm going to get banned from the thread for saying this, but it seems to me that if you keep promoting the 6X6BL7s as hard as you have been, eventually you will finally convince someone to buy a 6X wired adapter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Misery loves company ????
  
 And for my (probably) parting gesture, I saw a news report about this goddess writing a special song for Queen Elizabeth's 90th birthday, and it reminded me of how totally in love I am with her - Katherine Jenkings, not the Queen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry Shania!!!


----------



## connieflyer

I have been enjoyng here music for a long time.  Great voice.


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer

Of course compared to the original....What a sweetheart


----------



## UntilThen

Great singer indeed. I was introduce to Katherine Jenkins by none other than the one and only  @Lorspeaker .


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I'm sure I'm going to get banned from the thread for saying this, but it seems to me that if you keep promoting the 6X6BL7s as hard as you have been, eventually you will finally convince someone to buy a 6X wired adapter.   Misery loves company ????




Hello pctazhp...

LOL, I really don't give a warm cup of spit if anyone purchases a 6x 6BL7 adapter or not. 

Just offering a sound quality opinion.

If it irritates you, wasn't intentional.

:rolleyes:


----------



## UntilThen

I love this oldie. Classic.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> We survived April 1st.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The ZMFs are getting better every time I use them.  I haven't used my LCD2s ever since I got my ZMFs.  Really looking forward to the ZMF Omni's too.


----------



## jerick70

Here's what I'm listening to right now.....


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> The ZMFs are getting better every time I use them.  I haven't used my LCD2s ever since I got my ZMFs.  Really looking forward to the ZMF Omni's too.


 

 Dang that good huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder if there are any similarities with Fostex th600 or 900.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Dang that good huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've not heard the th600 or 900.  These have dynamic drivers so I think they are going to be a bit different.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Dang that good huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That good and more!


----------



## UntilThen

jerick70 said:


> I've not heard the th600 or 900.  These have dynamic drivers so I think they are going to be a bit different.


 
  
 Yeah true. The ZMF headphones are planar magnetics. Price is pretty good with the Blackwood starting at $649.
  
 That said I'm liking my HE560 a lot still. Not the kind of bass like you get but very clean, detail and fast. 
  
 I need @B-60 to give me a first hand account of the HEX with Elise.
  
 ... and @aqsw  too. Let's hear more about the Ether-C. That's another closed back.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Yeah true. The ZMF headphones are planar magnetics. Price is pretty good with the Blackwood starting at $649.
> 
> That said I'm liking my HE560 a lot still. Not the kind of bass like you get but very clean, detail and fast.
> 
> ...




You can pickup a used pair for ~$550. The woodworking that Zach does is amazing too.
You get a one of a kind headphone. I've heard the Omni's are even more refined. I'm really looking forward to those.


----------



## UntilThen

HE560 has a lovely mid-range and vocals are just wonderful with it. Bass is just the right touch for me. Similarly for T1 too. 
  
 I like HE560 with Elise because of the warm and lushness imparts by the tubes / tube amp and Elise is agile enough to keep pace with the Hifiman. My volume is sitting at 11am for this planar magnetic.  
  
 You have to love this by the Eagles


----------



## UntilThen

Wow just when I say no more tubes, along comes a pair of brand new Chatham 6AS7G in brand new boxes never seen before.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @pctazhp....you ain't goin' nowhere, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There has been a good bit of questionable reporting on the 6AS7G vs 6BL7 topic, which I have been participating in over at the 'For 6AS7G tube rollers here' thread recently.
  
 There may well indeed be some who prefer the 6BL7 sound, and that's great for them. But I did object to some of the more denigrating comments re use of the 6AS7G, so I searched out for other high-end manufacturers using this tube besides the Atma-Sphere folks I mentioned previously. And I was quite surprised by what I found - even one using our 6SN7/6AS7G combination...but just one of each, lol!
  
 So I thought y'all might be interested in the ones I found on just a quick search...(I know these are not headphone amps per se, but showcase the makers' high regard for the 6AS7G's qualities as their power tube of choice).....
  
 Audio-Note 'Vindicator'......starting at $3600
  

  
 Apex High-Fi Audio 'Teton'....$5000
  

  
 Audio-Valve 'Baldur 70'.....$6000+ per pair (their '300' uses 10 6AS7Gs per mono block ($50,000 list per pair)
  

  

  
 And so I believe the pedigree of the 6AS7G is displayed here in all its glory, and is one I have always held to be self-evident...hence my original request for its use in the (then to be named) Elise, lol.......CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998 are amongst the best power tubes I've tried in Elise. I've no doubt GEC 6AS7G will be better because I heard it on a Woo Audio Wa2 at the meet. 
  
 I spend 3 weeks on a couple of tube combinations because there has been so much talk 'suddenly' that 6BL7 sounds better than Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998.
  
 Some of the combos I've tried included:-
  

2x Valvo C3Gs and 2xTung Sol 5998
2x Valvo C3Gs and 2xChatham 6AS7G
2x Valvo C3Gs and 4x GE 6BL7GTA 1962, 63 & 64 years of manufacture. 
  
 I've used the same drivers so that it's a level playing field. I don't particularly like C3G because I find the high frequencies too high pitch and becomes fatiguing with long listening sessions. I'm using it here because all of the 3 combos can be used in Elise without resorting to external power supply. (I do not believe Elise needs external power supply to power multiple power tubes, to sound good or at her best). I shall refer to the above by their numbers.
  
 1 - is the most energized, sparking with a grand soundstage. details galore and great clarity. Bass is amazingly impactful and extends low and deep.
 2 - feels smoother, airer with great details and clarity too. Soundstage is great. Lush and a grand presentation. Classical, jazz, rock and any genres are handled with aplomb. 
 3 - lean and defined. You don't get the soundstage that you do with 1 & 2. This is more akin to solid state sound and lacks the lushness.
  
 Summary - I much prefer the euphonic, 3D, ethereal and organic presentation of 1 & 2 over 3. There is no way I will consider the 6BL7 'better' than the 5998 or the Chatham 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll take the 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G any day. 
  
@hypnos1  you're absolutely right in pointing out those great tube amps that use 6AS7G. Fyi Bottlehead Crack users loves Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## hpamdr

About 6BL7 vs 6AS7G in general, for a one to one compasrison let say that very good 6AS7G (GEC CHATHAM, 6080 Bendix, GEC, Mullard, 5998) are IMHO better than single 6BL7GTA. All 6BL7GT/GTA have closer sonic quality than all 6AS7G and equivalent kinds but those tubes were only made in US and not in huge quantity. Today it is far more easier to find big quantity of 6AS7G than 6BL7GTA.
  
 For a manufacturer 6AS7G is a better choice by far as you have more power and your customer have a large choice of tube you can even sell yourself. Also if you want to use output transformer you can use some standard transformer.
  
 The next step is to compare two 6BL7GT/GTA to a single 6AS7G this can be done IMHO only for OTL design and for headphone amplifier. Here, we combine two factors more triode in parrallel you have less output impedance and more power. So you have better match with low impedance headphone and more power the cocktail seems to be good and will give more freedom to the driver part. If the amp was not a lot oversized you cannot really add 1A to heat the tubes unless you restrict the choice of your drivers...
  
 I did some test on Elise and for me i have good result with a quad of 6BL7GTA if the drivers are very detailed and this is probably the case of G3gs tubes. (But as I'm against external heating i was not able to test with many kind, E188C, 5963, 6n23p)
  
 With HD650 and T1, i did not get night and day difference and still think that GEC 6080 gives better match for me. But this is probably because i miss my favorite drivers.
 With Fostex TH500-RP with no doubt i get all i need to have a good match and Elise is drive it wonderfully and even better than 5998 ! (but cannot use my ECC31 nor 6N7GT nor 6M6G )
  
  
 (for EL3N lovers, 6M6G are sonically close as i got some i did a try and was pleased with it. It needs same adapter as EL34/6L6GC)
  
 For the tests, i have made an experimental  bridge adapter i will reuse to test 4 6L6GC


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello hpamdr, 

It's refreshing to hear from someone who has actually tried both tubes. I agree a single 6BL7 is unimpressive and the goodness starts coming in via multiples. I do hear much larger/deeper/tighter bass and I get midrange improvements that are startling, as well, Of course everyone's gear is different in tube land. 

What your used to thinking of as "best" also plays a role.

I have sent you a PM regarding external tube heating.

Cheers...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998 are amongst the best power tubes I've tried in Elise. I've no doubt GEC 6AS7G will be better because I heard it on a Woo Audio Wa2 at the meet.
> 
> I spend 3 weeks on a couple of tube combinations because there has been so much talk 'suddenly' that 6BL7 sounds better than Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT.
  
 Thanks for your final findings on the 6BL7 in your system. As your results mirror mine with the same drivers and similar 6AS7G types, I too will stick with the sound signature you describe over what I have gleaned from others' descriptions also of the 6BL7...especially as most of us - like hpamdr - no longer want to go the external heater power supply route. But that is each individual's personal choice of course...
  
 And we mustn't forget the likes of the GEC 6080, which Oskari and hpamdr like very much...(not surprising really, as they are the straight-bottled version of the famed CV2523/A1834 "Coke bottle" versions, and which sometimes come up used on ebay, or available NOS at prices at least much cheaper than the STs). But I still urge folks to keep a sharp eye open for the 'sleeper', non GEC/Osram-labelled 6AS7Gs - you'll need to be extremely patient and lucky, but they are out there...study their 'look' carefully so you can recognise them at 100 paces, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...their synergy with Elise and the EL3N especially is quite remarkable - but so too is the 5998's...and the 7236's it would appear...and the Chatham 6AS7G...
  
 We are indeed blessed with such a choice...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> Thanks for your final findings on the 6BL7 in your system. As your results mirror mine with the same drivers and similar 6AS7G types, I too will stick with the sound signature you describe over what I have gleaned from others' descriptions also of the 6BL7...especially as most of us - like hpamdr - no longer want to go the external heater power supply route. But that is each individual's personal choice of course...
> 
> ...


 

 Hi H1,
  
 It's not just my findings. Decades of tube rollers have gone before us with greater passion and they have greater and cheaper choice of good tubes back then. You have heard consistently good reviews of the GEC 6AS7G, Tung Sol 5998 and Chatham 6AS7G. They are in all the major threads. 
  
 I'm amazed that that this new leaner, 'supposedly' more detailed and hard hitting bass sound of 6BL7 is considered better now over one with wider soundstage, lusher tone and grand scale presentation of the 6AS7G. Obviously there is a slide in preference amongst some now, towards a solid state sound signature. To which I would say, get a good solid state amp and be done with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for us tube amp lovers, we remain consistently sure of our sound signature preference. Elise with EL3N and Tung Sol 7236 and T1 has been entertaining me for the last 2 days and this IS great sound.


----------



## jerick70

The Elise and ZMF Blackwoods are incredible listening to Andrea Bocelli, Sarah Brightman - Time To Say Goodbye....


----------



## pctazhp

jerick70 said:


> The Elsie and ZMF Blackwoods are incredible listening to Andrea Bocelli, Sarah Brightman - Time To Say Goodbye....


 
  
 I was just listening to this video a couple of hours ago. Pure magic!!!
  
 Very glad you are having such great success with the ZMFs. It's a lot of fun to hear about all the different headphones that work so well with the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Sarah Brightman does sound good. 
  
 My favorite is her songs on 'Love Changes Everything - The Andrew Lloyd Webber collection vol2' which you can find on Tidal Hifi.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Eight is great:





[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NsUhqQwSmJ0[/VIDEO]



.


----------



## connieflyer

You need acouple of more adapters, I see open spaces back there!


----------



## connieflyer

Anyone looking for some hospital grade outlets, Parts Connexion has a great buy going on.....http://www.partsconnexion.com/ac_leviton.html?utm_source=getresponse&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1express&utm_content=pcX%E2%80%99s+Clearance+Event%3A+87%25+Off+MARANTZ+SA-1+SACD+Player+%28Donor+Unit%29%3B+63%25+Off+CARDAS+Golden+Presence+Spkr+Cable+-+Last+Set%3B+MULLARD+6922+Tubes+-+%2424.95%3B+FURUTECH+FI-50+%26+FI-50M+%28R%29+Power+%26+IEC+Plugs


----------



## connieflyer

Here's one for you UT, our local Detroit Symphony Orchestra  Holst..for youtube decent sound...


----------



## connieflyer

Or perhaps this is more to your liking..I think a very decent group of musicians
  
 ..


----------



## mordy

OK folks, I do not want to stir up any animosity between people, and I don't want that the discussion should turn to name calling and being accused of liking transistor sound - nothing of the sort!
  
 But let's be honest!
  
 How can somebody comment on the sound in the Elise of combinations with four 6BL7 tubes power tubes that need external heating without having heard it? (It is generally known that the C3g are bright tubes, and C3g with four 6BL7 as powers {no external heating needed} do not sound that great.)
  
 But other driver tubes, such as the EL3N, sound great with externally powered 6BL7 tubes. For those of us that have used the external power, and have compared the sound to 6AS7 tubes, the preference is for the 6BL7 tubes.
  
 For somebody to say that he does not want to deal with external power, is just fine. But you cannot comment on the sound of something that you have not experienced.
  
 If a non pedigreed Ford GT40 won over the pedigreed Ferraris at Le Mans in 1968 and 1969, does it make the Ford a faster car?
  
 Fair enough UT and h1?
  
 I think that one of the main purposes of this forum is to help each other to find great sound. A couple of us have gone the route of using multiple power tubes with external heating, and the results are so encouraging that we don't want to keep it to ourselves. For those people that do not want to go this route, there are wonderful, great sounding combinations available without external heating, and each person can find their best balance of sound and aesthetics due to the tremendous flexibility and adaptability of the Elise.


----------



## jerick70

pctazhp said:


> I was just listening to this video a couple of hours ago. Pure magic!!!
> 
> Very glad you are having such great success with the ZMFs. It's a lot of fun to hear about all the different headphones that work so well with the Elise.


 
  
 Yes they are amazing together.  It's a masterpiece!
  
 The Blackwoods are an incredible headphone.  Highly recommended.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @mordy...I do believe there are a good few anomalies surrounding this subject, alas, due partly to certain inconsistencies in different reports...eg you stated that the C3g/6BL7 combo "didn't sound that great", whereas at least a couple of others (over at Glenn & 6AS7G threads) have stated the exact opposite...presumably due to different equipment and the fact you use Elise mostly as pre-amp?...and/or with HPs that don't really match the T1s, for example.
  
  UT's trials with the C3g must therefore be more closely related to the others' findings mentioned, rather than your own?...hence the validity of his own impressions/conclusions, and which I personally rely upon for making certain extrapolations.
  
 Indeed, neither of us has tried the EL3N driver with 4x 6BL7 powers, due to the need for external heater PS, and so certain assumptions have to be made based upon the C3g results. For us, comparing the C3g's general characteristics with those of the EL3N, it would therefore appear most likely that Elise/EL3N/6BL7 may indeed _not_ deliver our preferred sound signature..._*given our particular systems.*_ Of course we cannot be 100% sure, but the probability is high enough not to warrant going the external heater route anyway...(but perhaps might just be sufficient to tempt me into some adapting in the quieter Winter months, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And so with yourself being, I believe, the only one at present to use such a combo (but in quite a different set-up), the jury must still be out on this one...for a while yet, anyway! Time will indeed tell...both with the Elise and other amps - particularly the Woo Audio amps, where at present the 5998/7236/GEC 6AS7G variants reign supreme...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @mordy
> ...I do believe there are a good few anomalies surrounding this subject, alas, due partly to certain inconsistencies in different reports...eg you stated that the C3g/6BL7 combo "didn't sound that great", whereas at least a couple of others (over at Glenn & 6AS7G threads) have stated the exact opposite...presumably due to different equipment and the fact you use Elise mostly as pre-amp?...and/or with HPs that don't really match the T1s, for example.
> 
> UT's trials with the C3g must therefore be more closely related to the others' findings mentioned, rather than your own?...hence the validity of his own impressions/conclusions, and which I personally rely upon for making certain extrapolations.
> ...




Hello @hypnos1 - 

I agreed that 2x BL and C3gS was not ideal in Elise, but my opinion changed with 3x BL, which made the C3g come alive, and sounded better than I had heard it in this amp.

Same for FDD20 and ECC31 - 1x and 2x BL and they did not shine, but all drivers come alive via 3x BL's. In fact all drivers sound excellent via 3x BL's, better than they ever did, with 6AS7G/6080/5998. 

I would suggest to you that gibosi probably hears something very different from what we do, in his Glenn with 2x BL and the dedicated c3gS sockets in his "no capacitors in the final signal path" Glenn amp. It's really not fair for you to dismiss his listening report, when you have not heard it.

You might also recall that my using 1x 6BL7 to start, I was completely unimpressed. 2x made some drivers jump to life and I was impressed. 3x opened the flood gates, and all drivers now reveal what they were capable of.

I would also respectively suggest that you to PM @3083joe who does own a WA22 and reports that multi BL's have "something that is missing from his GEC 6AS7G's". 

I understand not wanting to heat externally. But I would appreciate it, if you would not dismiss those who do choose to work outside of the 7 amp heater limitation built in to the Elise.

Look forward to your actually giving the BL's a whirl, this winter.

Cheers...


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello @hypnos1 -
> 
> I agreed that 2x BL and C3gS was not ideal in Elise, but my opinion changed with 3x BL, which made the C3g come alive, and sounded better than I had heard it in this amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 JV:  I don't remember the details of your source(s) or your headphones, and you don't include any information on your profile. While you are correct in saying that no one else seems to have tried the 6X6BL7 combination and cannot compare directly to what you are hearing, it is also true that if you are not using a T1 (such as H1 and UD are using), you really can't offer them any assurance as to what their experience would be with the 6X6BL7 combination. In my limited experience, the choice of source and headphones is probably much more important than the choice of any number of different power tubes for the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> OK folks, I do not want to stir up any animosity between people, and I don't want that the discussion should turn to name calling and being accused of liking transistor sound - nothing of the sort!
> 
> But let's be honest!
> 
> ...


 

 I do not believe that EL3N and 4x6BL7 will bring about a sonic change so great as to warrant going with external power supplies. For that matter, even with more 6BL7s.
  
 I have heard C3G with 4x6BL7, 6SN7 with 4x6BL7 for 5 songs, FDD20 with 4x6BL7, EL3N with 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7. It has given me a good enough glimpse of 6BL7 sound signature. They are not a bad sound but certainly not Chatham 6AS7G beaters IMO. Again 'better than' has been used so many times but better in what sense? I was pointing out the sonic differences I hear and I think you are a touch sensitive to consider that name calling. 
  
 Besides you're assessing these with speakers whilst most of us are doing our assessments on revealing headphones.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Here's one for you UT, our local Detroit Symphony Orchestra  Holst..for youtube decent sound...


 
 Thanks Connie !!! 
  
 Jupiter. My favorite of the album. I need to listen to that CD again.


----------



## pctazhp

Ray Price has been one of my all-time, life-long favorite performers. I had the honor of seeing him live about 10 years ago. I was absolutely mesmerized for over two hours. It was the most memorable live performance I have ever attended. I had never heard the following song before, and when he started signing it I was impacted to my core. I was already feeling a little old at the time, and this may have been the first moment I ever came to terms with my own mortality. Today, I can only be grateful that I have been gifted with 10 more years.
  
 By the way, the piano player was the band leader (the band opened the show) and is Ray's son. Truly, may the great Ray Price rest in peace. He certainly earned his place in hillbilly heaven. And to a fellow Marine, Semper Fi


----------



## pctazhp

And if that's not depressing enough for us Old Geezers, there is always this. If there is a lesson, I guess it is to always live each day as if it is our last.


----------



## UntilThen

A time to reflect on time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the songs though. I thought Ray was just going to talk with the opening but then he did sing.
  
 I reckon you should join Guns N Roses on their reunion world tour.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I reckon you should join Guns N Roses on their reunion world tour.


 
  
 Ha)))) I'll leave that to my son


----------



## UntilThen

and tell Axl Rose to move aside and let you have the mic as you belt out this number.


----------



## UntilThen

Something more soothing to start the day.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> and tell Axl Rose to move aside and let you have the mic as you belt out this number.


 
  
 OMG!!! Even the Elise can't make that tolerable for my suffering ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And my on-stage performances are limited to my own special version of this:
  

  
 I do Bill Medley but only after about 5 or 6 large mugs of Coors draft


----------



## Suuup

I, for one, will not outright dismiss a tube, just because some reports came back negative.
  
 It also seems to me, that no one has tested JV's claim to the full extent - i.e. go for all 6x 6BL7. I believe JV claimed that he needed all 6 before the C3g actually came alive. This makes sense, as the gain factor is very high (40 I believe) - i.e. it needs a lot of power to drive them. JV claimed his 6SN7s sounded good with 4x 6BL7 - 6SN7 has a gain factor of 20. He said that his 6N7G and the like didn't sound too impressive - 6N7G has a gain factor of around ~35. With 6x 6BL7 his 6N7G came alive (as well as C3g), so all of his claims makes complete sense from my point of view. 
  
 I do not believe that one can hear the sound signature of a tube, if the system doesn't have enough power (i.e. not enough power tubes).


----------



## UntilThen

Of course you can tell the sound signature of a tube. You can clearly make out how a Mullard 6080 or Tung Sol 5998 sounds like. 
  
 You're making a lot of assumption too not having heard 6x6BL7 that it will magically make 6SN7 sound great. Perhaps it might in an amp specially make and tune for it.
  
 And lest we forget this is Elise thread and not one to be constantly bombarded with 6x6BL7 and external power supplies.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Of course you can tell the sound signature of a tube. You can clearly make out how a Mullard 6080 or Tung Sol 5998 sounds like.
> 
> You're making a lot of assumption too not having heard 6x6BL7 that it will magically make 6SN7 sound great. Perhaps it might in an amp specially make and tune for it.
> 
> And lest we forget this is Elise thread and not one to be constantly bombarded with 6x6BL7 and external power supplies.


 
 Ah yes, I agree UT. You can clearly make out what Mullard 6080 and 5998 sounds like -- but they supply enough power! The 6BL7 doesn't have a lot of power, which is why one cannot make out the sound signature until one has enough of them. 
  
 I'm not making any claims as to what the 6BL7 sounds like. I don't know. All I'm saying is, what JV is finding makes sense to me. All the low mu driver tubes sounded good to him with 4x 6BL7, while the high mu driver tubes needed 6x 6BL7 to sound good. This is what JV said (if I remember correctly), and it makes sense to me. 
  
 I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence.


----------



## connieflyer

Of course UT, my favorite of Gerry's was Baker street...Great sax...


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Of course UT, my favorite of Gerry's was Baker street...Great sax...




Here is some interesting facts about the famous Sax Solo on "Baker Street" (said to be one of the most recognizable sax solos of all time):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Ravenscroft

Life is funny....bees make honey. 


.


----------



## connieflyer

Interesting career, always loved a good sax riff, thanks for the heads up


----------



## connieflyer

Hey UT, I am going to give you less noise and more thoughfulness, try her voice.....Darlene Koldenhoven.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Interesting career, always loved a good sax riff, thanks for the heads up




His check for payment, for his work, playing sax on that record...bounced!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I do not believe that EL3N and 4x6BL7 will bring about a sonic change so great as to warrant going with external power supplies. For that matter, even with more 6BL7s.
> 
> I have heard C3G with 4x6BL7, 6SN7 with 4x6BL7 for 5 songs, FDD20 with 4x6BL7, EL3N with 2x6SN7 / 2x6BL7. It has given me a good enough glimpse of 6BL7 sound signature. They are not a bad sound but certainly not Chatham 6AS7G beaters IMO. Again 'better than' has been used so many times but better in what sense? I was pointing out the sonic differences I hear and I think you are a touch sensitive to consider that name calling.
> 
> Besides you're assessing these with speakers whilst most of us are doing our assessments on revealing headphones.


 
  
 Hi UT.
  
 I'm sure I speak for _*most*_ Elise owners when I say thanks for the massive effort you have recently (and in the past) put into your tube trials.
  
 Your latest findings are indeed the most comprehensive and _consistent_ to date re. the 6BL7, given your particular level of system set-up...and provide highly relevant and valuable guidance for our Elises (other amps may vary, of course...).
  
 Your coverage of drivers used other than the high gain C3g - (please note, Suuup) - has further confirmed what can be _expected_, given similar set-ups...obviously others' systems may well differ.
  
 I repeat that your own trials have been _consistent_, which I applaud...other reports are somewhat misleading, to say the least - according to those, some of the combinations you used should have have been perfectly OK for assessment...ie. _*no need*_ for *6*x6BL7. And thus your findings are perfectly valid, mon ami...no question! They are in fact the closest, reliable approximation we Elise owners can get to further verification of just how 6x6BL7 _might_ perform...and certainly in systems that at least match your own, lol!....CHEERS!
  
 And so once more the cry must be : do one's own in-depth research as much as possible, and "suck it and see"...within the confines of one's wallet!!....and ENJOY the journey - until fortunate enough to find what can eventually bring the sort of 'Audio nirvana' that one is truly happy with, and bring welcome 'resolution', lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...HAPPY HUNTING!!...not to mention LISTENING!...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> I'm sure I speak for _*most*_ Elise owners when I say thanks for the massive effort you have recently (and in the past) put into your tube trials.
> 
> ...


 
 I will admit, I didn't notice that UT tried the 6SN7 also. It seems JV and UT agree up until the 6SN7 with 4x 6BL7, where they no longer agree. 
  
 What I wrote previously still holds though.
 If 4x 6BL7 isn't enough to power the C3g and FDD20, then one cannot accurately comment on the 6BL7 sound signature from this setup.
 It seems 4x 6BL7 is enough to power the 6SN7 however, so one can accurately comment on the 6BL7 sound signature from this setup.
 Grouping all those 3 drivers together, however, does not give an accurate presentation of the 6BL7 sound signature, when 2/3 setups aren't fully powered. 
  
 I have to be clear though: I'm not saying anyone is at fault here. One cannot directly hear that a certain system doesn't have enough power. There are a few things that might tip one off, but this might also just be perceived (wrongly, with intent though) as the sound signature of the tube. Only once a setup is fully powered can one hear the sound signature of a tube.


----------



## UntilThen

Again your assumption is wrong Suuup. C3G with 4x6BL7 is not under powered. There is not a question of it being underpowered here. It powered up as well as 6SN7 with 4x6BL7. C3G as drivers have ample power to drive the T1.
  
 I simply made the comment that C3G with 4x6BL7 sounded lean and detailed as compared to the lusher presentation of C3G with 2x5998 or 2xChatham 6AS7G.
  
 I also mentioned that it sounded closer to solid state than the other 2 combos. Soundstage is also narrower. This is the reason I do not think the 6BL7 sounded 'better' than 5998 or Chatham when paired with C3G as drivers. 
  
 Likewise in the 5 songs I heard, 6SN7 with 4x6BL7 sounded similar to the C3G pairing. I.e lean and defined and akin to solid state, with a narrower soundstage.
  
 Ultimately better depends on who listens to it. What their sound preferences are. There's no denying there are those who love a more solid state sound and equally there are those who prefer a lusher presentation of tubes.
  
 So when someone comes on and say that 6BL7 is 'better' than Chatham 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998, you need to find out what  their sound preferences are. What source and headphones or speakers they are using. Different ears, gears and different taste. 
  
 Is one better than the other? The argument can get as old as solid state vs tubes. It may not be as drastic as this. To each their own. It's a big world and big enough for everyone to favor their own tubes.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Again your assumption is wrong Suuup. C3G with 4x6BL7 is not under powered. There is not a question of it being underpowered here. It powered up as well as 6SN7 with 4x6BL7. C3G as drivers have ample power to drive the T1.
> 
> I simply made the comment that C3G with 4x6BL7 sounded lean and detailed as compared to the lusher presentation of C3G with 2x5998 or 2xChatham 6AS7G.
> 
> ...




That is indeed my assumption. I do not know if it is true or not. Could be that 4x is enough to power C3g, could be it isn't. According to JV it isn't. Since he's the only one that has tried 6x 6BL7, I believe he is the most qualified person to comment on that.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I did try C3G with 4x6BL7 for a long period of 3 weeks with the other combos. Enough to determine if there ever was a problem with it driving my headphones and there is none. If you like that kind of tone, this might be the combo for you that I can assure you.
  
 I would further emphasized that I do not believe that 6x6BL7 is the ultimate for Elise. Probably one person's opinion but definitely not the whole community here. You don't see people ordering a brand new Elise and straight away plan on using 6x6BL7 and external power supply with it. If that were the case, I'd strongly urge those people to get a custom amp that will do that without external power supply.


----------



## hpamdr

suuup said:


> That is indeed my assumption. I do not know if it is true or not. Could be that 4x is enough to power C3g, could be it isn't. According to JV it isn't. Since he's the only one that has tried 6x 6BL7, I believe he is the most qualified person to comment on that.


 

 IMHO : (keep it as my own feeling)

 For me, I've seen an advantage on using 46BL7GTA with the fostex TH-500RP when i need a bit more power ! 

 The overall presentation is more linear and do not have any "tubey" presentation. On the headphones the sound is a bit more precise and soundsatge is not as wide as 5998. If you want some "clinical" listening with E188CC, E88CC or 5963 it is a good combination.

 With T1 and HD650, using ECC31, EL3N, KR VT231 good 6AS7G/6080 gives the result i want and is better than a single 6BL7GT by channel.

 For the opposite presentation, 4 EL3N  as output is fun to listen, you get a great tube amp signature warm, with expended sounstage... This have a wowwww effect and probably a great combo for demoing Elise or any similar tube amp. I personally do not feel confortable for long listening with T1 where I really like the more neutral 6080 GEC, of CSF.     
  
 I've also noticed that 6BL7GTA tubes get verry HOT very quicly ! Even if it is uggly, the adapter need to be tall enough to not propagate heat to the amplifier. It is also good to use good socket saver on 6AS7G.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Of course UT, my favorite of Gerry's was Baker street...Great sax...


 
 Again thanks CF.  Every passing day gets you closer to getting Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> I'm sure I speak for _*most*_ Elise owners when I say thanks for the massive effort you have recently (and in the past) put into your tube trials.


 
 Hi H1,
  
 I wouldn't have done all that tube rolling if I didn't enjoy it and I wouldn't have been able to enjoy Elise if you did not help bring it to fruition. Again my thanks and I must say I speak for many others too, for your contribution from conception of Elise to the introduction of milestone tubes, namely C3G, ECC31, 2031, FDD20 and EL3N. From the first Elise thread to this 2nd thread, you've given of your time and effort tirelessly.
  
 Thanks !


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> That is indeed my assumption. I do not know if it is true or not. Could be that 4x is enough to power C3g, could be it isn't. According to JV it isn't. Since he's the only one that has tried 6x 6BL7, I believe he is the most qualified person to comment on that.


 
  
 Hi Suuup....sorry, but JV's results using 4x6BL7 with C3g are not replicated by some others...as I mentioned previously, _they_ felt the pairing was just fine - ergo,....????....


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> That is indeed my assumption. I do not know if it is true or not. Could be that 4x is enough to power C3g, could be it isn't. According to JV it isn't. Since he's the only one that has tried 6x 6BL7, I believe he is the most qualified person to comment on that.


 
 JV is qualified to report his experience and preference for the particular DAC and headphones he is using. I don't use speakers so I'm not interested in that evaluation, but if I did I would want to know what amp and speakers he was using. Part of the difficulty I have in finding JV's evaluation useful for me is I don't know what DAC or headphones he is using. Perhaps you do.
  
 UT is certainly qualified to report on whether 4X6BL7s provide sufficient power when coupled with the C3G drivers in his system. We all know what DAC and headphones he uses, which makes his evaluations helpful to me. Moreover, he certainly has more tube rolling experience with the Elise than anyone else here, with the possible exception of H1. It also helps that I have many of the same tubes he has and my impressions often mirror his.
  
 I have 4X6BL7s, but don't have either the quad or 6X adapters. And I don't have the external transformer that would be required with the 6X adapter. To get to that point, I would have to spend almost $200 to buy a third pair of 6BL7s, the transformer and the adapter. My own personal preference is to avoid external power. And for me I would rather put that $200 towards a pair of GEC/OsramCV2523/A1834s, based in large measure on H1's extensive experimentation with the Elise (and before that with the LD) and my knowledge of his source and headphones.
  
 I may be wrong, but I believe power tubes (at least in the Elise) do not amplify voltage - just current. Therefore, it would seem to me the impedance of the particular headphones being used could be important. Also, and again I could be wrong, but I seem to recall one post from JV in which he indicated dual 6BL7s are sufficient for low impedance cans, 4X6BL7s sufficient for medium impedance cans, and 6X6BL7s are, in his opinion, needed for high impedance cans (my apologies in advance to JV if I am wrong about that). But again, I don't remember or know what cans JV is using.
  
 Finally, I do have a pair of C3Gs from my LD days and the proper adapters for the Elise. I find the EL3Ns to be far superior as drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Hey UT, I am going to give you less noise and more thoughfulness, try her voice.....Darlene Koldenhoven.


 
  
 Sorry to steal this post away from UT, but I love this piece; although I am most familiar with Sarah Brightman's rendition and never hear Darlene's. So thank you and apologizes to UT))
  
 I just received my HD800S today and have less than 2 hours on them. I thought this would be the perfect way to Baptize them )))


----------



## connieflyer

Let us know what your thoughts are on the 800s when you get some time on them.  Looking in that direction myself. Have 700's now and like them.  Darlene has a nice body of work, you may have heard her on "ARIA " which is loosely based upon a short, but beautiful part of the 19th century French opera, lakme, by Leo Delibes.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Hey UT, I am going to give you less noise and more thoughfulness, try her voice.....Darlene Koldenhoven.


 
  
 Sorry to steal this post away from UT, but I love this piece; although I am most familiar with Sarah Brightman's rendition and never hear Darlene's. So thank you and apologizes to UT))
  
 I just received my HD800S today and have less than 2 hours on them. I thought this would be the perfect way to Baptize them )))


     Sorry I have to steal it back. This sounds too good. Goosebumps. How can she take her voice so high. Thanks Don !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Glad to share, she has quite a voice to be sure, most welcome good sir


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I just received my HD800S today and have less than 2 hours on them. I thought this would be the perfect way to Baptize them )))


 
 Wow wee you have the black beauty HD800S  This looks gorgeous in the flesh and sounds it too.
  
 Eagerly awaiting your 1st hand impressions of it with Beyer T1 G2 using Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Let us know what your thoughts are on the 800s when you get some time on them.  Looking in that direction myself. Have 700's now and like them.  Darlene has a nice body of work, you may have heard her on "ARIA " which is loosely based upon a short, but beautiful part of the 19th century French opera, lakme, by Leo Delibes.


 
 I'll be very happy to, but it will take me time. I tend to jump to early conclusions that later seem silly to me)))
  
 I can say that so far I'm very impressed, but will be very surprised if I end up reporting that they are "T1 killers".
  
 If you do decide to get a pair, I'd like to put a plug in for Jan Meier in Germany: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/. Absolutely first class all the way. Right now the 800S is in very short supply, but he shipped my pair the very day he got a new delivery from Sennheiser and it was only 9 days from Germany to Arizona, which of course included time spent clearing customs. I don't think you'll beat his price anywhere.
  
 "Aria" another great selection. You have excellent taste in music.


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## connieflyer

Thank you, and I will give him a look before I buy.


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## connieflyer

Since no one else is around but us music afficenado's  one more then I will leave well enough alone....


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## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Since no one else is around but us music afficenado's  one more then I will leave well enough alone....


 
 This is hauntingly mesmerising. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and her voice is great. You've just introduce me to a lovely soprano.


----------



## connieflyer

Many more, listening to her now, and she just gets me wondering if heaven has this sort of thing!  Have to try Enchantment, delightful!  Full length "aria"  is called Sous Le Dome Epais from Lakme.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Since no one else is around but us music afficenado's  one more then I will leave well enough alone....


 
@UntilThen and I are here and we both seem to be thoroughly enjoying your music )))


----------



## connieflyer

UT or another expert, are these tubes any good?  Winged-C 6H13C. 
 This 6AS7 Russian 6H13C tube is also known as 6N13S and 6AS7G. These NOS tubes were made in St. Petersburg, Russia by SED and had been relabeled by Sovtek as their 6AS7 which have become very expensive and hard to find.   http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6AS7-Tube-Types/Winged-C-6H13C-6AS7G


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen and I are here and we both seem to be thoroughly enjoying your music )))


 

 In that case ONE last one....


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT or another expert, are these tubes any good?  Winged-C 6H13C.
> This 6AS7 Russian 6H13C tube is also known as 6N13S and 6AS7G. These NOS tubes were made in St. Petersburg, Russia by SED and had been relabeled by Sovtek as their 6AS7 which have become very expensive and hard to find.   http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6AS7-Tube-Types/Winged-C-6H13C-6AS7G


 

 This would have been your stock power tubes had you ordered it with your Elise. Whilst not offensive sounding, I find it a bit warmer than I would like and certainly less clarity compared to the other power tubes. Once you've heard the better power tubes, these tend to be relegated to the drawer for eternal storage.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks, I thought I had heard that before, but memory is not one of my better points, Darlene is so enjoy. Pavanne is awesome


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





hpamdr said:


> For the opposite presentation, 4 EL3N  as output is fun to listen, you get a great tube amp signature warm, with expended sounstage... This have a wowwww effect and probably a great combo for demoing Elise or any similar tube amp.


 
  
 Beyer T1 with 6xEL3N is amphitheater sound.  Sound swirls around your head 360 degrees. Instruments and musicians placements are easy to pinpoint. Imaging is superb here. I’n listening to Yanni - The Very Best of …on Tidal. A moving experience.
  
 Too right when you say this hobby is too much fun. A good headphone is unbeatable. Probably need an expensive sound system with acoustically sound environment to replicate the emotions, clarity, details and intimacy. I’m swooned !!! ))
  
 ... not forgetting 6xEL3N.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well, today's my Elise's homecoming party (surprise one)
  
 Initial impressions unboxing:
 Very sturdy and well done packaging. Looking underneath the Elise, the components look very robust and somewhat similar to the Bottlehead Crack (vaguely by memory).
 On the top, looks like Feliks Audio has improved the ease of rolling with the sockets at level height.
  

  
 Before listening I spent just 3-4 minutes warming it up with these tubes, while I re-famaliarize myself with the sound of my existing amps for comparison - all using the HD 650; mostly with the Liquid Carbon in balanced mode and then the old Ember from Garage1217 for a moment.
  
 Even before trying the Elise I got a feeling going from the LC to the Ember that this is a bit of a toy sound... Enter Elise experience:
 First few seconds were just OK, but after every second that passed I got a feeling the sound kept improving with time.
  

 Initially using 'stock-like' GE 6SN7 & GE 6AS7 GA  _(it's a crappy camera but my only one for now)_
  
 My biggest shock came when comparing the Elise to the Ember and the LC another round. This time, I set a section of a well mastered track on continuous loop and volume matched the amps by-ear. 
  
 COMPLETELY SURREAL! Totally enveloping with spine tingling realism! This may be the biggest stage I've ever heard out of my HD 650's!... it's got me so excited.. what? oh I'm still doing a comparison LOL. Well here's my take:
  
*Vs. Liquid Carbon in Balanced mode*: The Elise kills the LC, hands down. It makes the LC sound muddy, congested and sub-par instrument separation... a glorious opposite for the Elise.
  
*Vs. Ember*: Everything about the Ember yells out "imitation" to my ears - like a wanna be amp, period in comparison. 
  
 The Elise has a divine realism, great PRaT / dynamics, full bodied, lifelike / realistic, and compared to the above two 'amps', dynamics seem at least 30% better, stage possibly up to 50% better, and overall resolution much more refined.
  
 And this is only using tubes akin to stock ones. I'm a little afraid at how good the sound must be out of my higher FDD20 / EL3N, and another total surprise I've been keeping from you guys for the last few months... but should I be afraid? I've already been a little sleep-lost lately as it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thinking back to the twice I've heard the Eddie Current Zana Deux amp, I feel very confident the Elise is within 95% as good as it's sound - and of course this is only with mid-level tubes and almost no burn-in. It also seems very likely better than the Crack+Speedball, by memory also. Furthermore, the Elise has been doing something which is weird for me - I'm actually able to type while listening, as before I always had the urge to kill the music while I focus.
  
 DISCLAIMER: The comparisons between LC and Ember were only brief within 10-minutes and without the Elise burned in. And the comparisons with the Crack and Zana Deux were only from 2+month memory.
  
 Here's the song I tested this gem of an amp with. It really seems Elise + Fleetwood Mack = absolute tranquility, and like it was made for her voice! And like the Elise really shines with retro music!
 /img/vimeo_logo.png
 (couldn't find a good quality version of the original so here's a remix)
  
 I also tested the Elise with some poorly encoded MP3's and much to my surprise it even made these sound very good!
  
 Now I see why some of you are tempted to drink with the sound of this otherworldly amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well that will be all for me for a few hours at least
  
 PS- Yes the Elise really did show up on my doorstep one random day unannounced


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh also folks - what was that that was being said earlier about letting tubes cool down before swapping them? Mine are getting super hot now. What if I were to use a sort of glove for my hand, would that be OK for the tubes?
  
 Oh also I want to point out that amazingly, the above comparison with Elise coming out on top of the LC was actually with the Elise being in SE and the LC in balanced!


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi I'm speechless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	















  
 .... unable to respond meaningfully for the moment.
  
  
 Except to say .... do not change tubes until they are cool down. Don't use glove to yank it out. Play safe disconnect the headphone jack.. revisit the 7 rules. Please do not be impatient to change tubes.....  and don't tube roll like there's no tomorrow.... those sockets have a finite lifespan.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> Oh also folks - what was that that was being said earlier about letting tubes cool down before swapping them? Mine are getting super hot now. What if I were to use a sort of glove for my hand, would that be OK for the tubes?
> 
> Oh also I want to point out that amazingly, the above comparison with Elise coming out on top of the LC was actually with the Elise being in SE and the LC in balanced!



You still have to wait a few minutes after powering her down to change the tubes. The capacitors have to fully discharge first.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK if I give it just about 2-min to cool down is that good enough? I've never experienced hot tubes before with the Ember


----------



## UntilThen

I always like to read the initial impressions of a new Elise owner, especially one who have experience with certain amps to draw some comparisons. The initial impressions are priceless.
  
@DecentLevi let me first of all congratulate you on the safe receipt of your Elise. Serial number?
  
 I'm quite amazed even at this initial listen, that you think it's so much better than the LC and Ember. Those comments regarding the EC ZD and Crack with Speedball are also quite amazing. 
  
 2 mins is still too short. Wait for it to cool down before changing. That's more than 5 mins easily. Be patient. You're in for a long ride with Elise so look after her well because she's going to give you endless sonic delights.
  
 Keep those impressions coming. Well done and thanks for giving a very detailed initial impressions.
  
*Edit:-* Now @connieflyer will be unable to sleep whilst waiting for his Elise LOL.


----------



## DecentLevi

No problem, I've got you all to thank for this opportunity to behold such a priceless musical instrument. I couldn't have done it without the inspiration and support from all of you - thanks for enduring my six month's of 'harassment' (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL) as I stood by only as a wannbe.
  
 Another update - perhaps the biggest what experience of my audiophile life - I'm now pairing the Elise with the world's one-and-only SoundMAGIC HP-100 "Tru-Fi Speakers mod"; a local headphone modding business put together by local Head-Fi member friend of mine - and I'll tell you, this is THE SOUND - so extraordinary I've gotten the chills twice from this pairing - and I mean a very uncanny chill - the kind where you're half way "exit planet earth" and unable to speak rationally - it's like the best of my past and present all combined into one... What!!!
  
 Feel free to read about this headphone, the story is in my signature.
  
 PS- this pairing is so extraordinary I think it'll take a strong amount of will-power to come back to my HD-650 - and the soundstage is NO slouch whatsoever either, and even though this is a closed-back and very isolated headphone!


----------



## UntilThen

Interesting never heard of SoundMAGIC HP-100 before.


----------



## UntilThen

My initial listen of Elise was with Lorenz C3G and Tung Sol 5998. It was a jaw dropping moment. My tubes were already burned in but Elise was brand new then. My headphone then was HD650.
  
 All I could post then was the gif of Jim Carrey jaw dropping moment.


----------



## hpamdr

Welcome to the incredible Elise Experience DL  It will take you two weeks before you enjoy it fully.
  
 Quote:


decentlevi said:


> Oh also folks - what was that that was being said earlier about letting tubes cool down before swapping them? Mine are getting super hot now. What if I were to use a sort of glove for my hand, would that be OK for the tubes?
> 
> Oh also I want to point out that amazingly, the above comparison with Elise coming out on top of the LC was actually with the Elise being in SE and the LC in balanced!


 

 When tube are super hot, you have to handle with care as :
 Tubes are more sensitive.
 As it is really hot you can have uncontroled reaction if your burn yourself.
  
 I use some silicone hot pad used in kitchen, i cut it to have a band 30/50mm width.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks Hpamdr, so I take it you're saying it may be OK to remove hot tubes if you're careful and wear hand protection. But I'll give mine a few minutes anyway.
  
 According to my card, I have Elise #44. It's hard to believe there's only 44 of these gems circulating! I think Feliks Audio and users could really benefit from expanding production! But then tubes may eventually become scarce since most of them are antique.
 Oh and my driver tubes & headphones were already burned in, which may have contributed to the magnificent sound I'm already getting.
  
 Yup, there's really something special about this HP-100 mod.  The mod propelled these headphones from sitting unused at the bottom of my drawer for one year to often rivaling the HD-650. A very night & day difference compared to the HP-100 stock; with lusher mids, bass that's weightier yet clean, etc. That headphone model is nearly out of production, but my friend is getting overstock from the supplier so he can still do some mods for those that are interested. His name username is @Packdemon (Lyova, a skilled Armenian craftsman in California).


----------



## whirlwind

decentlevi said:


> Oh also folks - what was that that was being said earlier about letting tubes cool down before swapping them? Mine are getting super hot now. What if I were to use a sort of glove for my hand, would that be OK for the tubes?
> 
> Oh also I want to point out that amazingly, the above comparison with Elise coming out on top of the LC was actually with the Elise being in SE and the LC in balanced!


 
 Please wait a few minutes before pulling those tubes out to roll them.....those caps need to discharge   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy your new amp.


----------



## DecentLevi

So, why not add to today's excitement - I'll go ahead and let my secret loose with you guys

*Quad 6J5 as drivers* with GE 6AS7GA:
 
 These are the tubes (specifically the Visseaux 6J5) that are universally regarded as the king for the Ember amp. I discovered they should be compatible with the Elise in dual mode, so after confirming this with Feliks Audio, I went ahead and ordered an extra set of adapters to try it on the Elise. (dual Visseaux and dual Zenith 6J5; both of which are almost identical in sound and construction). These are single triode tubes so must be run in dual mode in order to get a stereo signal, and are only compatible as drivers, as far as I understand.
  
 Unfortunately, the sound I got seemed a bit 'thinner' and slightly hollowed out compared to this combo I first tried.:

*GE 6SN7 GTA + Sylvania 6SN7 WGT with GE 6AS7GA:*
 
  

So next I swapped the dual 6AS7 for *two EL3N with quad 6J5 as drivers:*
 _(no photo)_
 I got a somewhat fuller, richer 'tubey' sound and poss. bigger stage, but unfortunately the EL3N's are causing volume break-up / distortion during louder parts of the recording. I played around with the input volume, and even swapped for my other pair of EL3N's, but unfortunately I'm still getting a very unsettling distortion at loud parts of the song.
  

Switching from EL3N to *GE 6SN7 with quad 6J5* as drivers:
 The distortion is gone and the sound is more clean than lush.
  

  
 The sound still seems somwhat 'thin' and hollowed out with the quad 6J5, so I would not recommend these tubes for the Elise - unless anybody thinks these would work in single-mode, or dual mode as drivers powers?
  
 Also would somebody please tell me if it's really safe / recommended to use 6SN7 as powers? Because according to the manual, these are supposed to be drivers.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @DecentLevi...*CONGRATULATIONS*...and welcome once more to the Elise clan - this time as a _formal_ member, lol!! 




 As UT says, your impressions before she's had any time at all to settle in are such as to take the breath away! I am so glad we haven't all been leading you up the garden path, and that you seem to think she has some merit!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...don't really know how your poor head is going to handle what will soon be coming your way, with further burn-in and more exotic tubes..._*so be prepared!!!*_
 Just like the rest of us, you're in for quite a ride (not to mention plenty of lost sleep!)...but then, I suspect you already realised that from what has been covered here for a long while now, LOL..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And so all that needs to be said now is..........ENJOY!.......




  
 ps. As has already been mentioned, probably best to be safe with the 'cool off' time - 5 mins are surely safer, especially for those caps as well...


----------



## gilbertasm

Hello,
  
 I've read in original Elise thread that this amplifier is  SE *OTL *type.  Is this really the case? I ask, because there is no mention of word OTL in Felix Audio  Elise  page.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey H1, one of the main masterminds! Thanks for the official welcome! Though my posts will only be occasional as I'm working on a home-business these days.
  
 OK I MAY HAVE TO TAKE BACK THAT MENTION OF DISTORTION WITH THE EL3N's. Looks it may have been down to a cable issue with my modded headphones - will re-test later.
  
 BUT NOW I AM COMPLETELY ASTONISHED WITH THE QUAD EL3N!!!

  
 THIS IS THE REAL-DEAL! THE ABSOLUTE-SOUND! Jawdropping on every level! Exactly as good as the best it's been described and as I imagined it would be, from you folk's awesome descriptions! Wonderful instrument separation (yet cohesive), imaging, dynamics, FR, lushness, etc.! It does have a slightly more tubey / colored sound but it done in a grand way, and seems to pair better with my HD 650! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 WOW - now moving onto some electronic music these are beyond words!!!


----------



## DecentLevi

So I hope when ConnieFlyer sees this, he's not too let down - because the Elise completely CREAMED the Ember in every way! The sound of these two are like comparing a toy truck to a real truck - and that's even with the Ember's finest tube combo (Visseaux 6J5; of which unfortunately 6J5's don't seem to perform well with the Elise). I will redo the comparison again when I have settled down sometime... also will compare the Elise to my upgraded Koss ESP-950 electrostat headphone rig... though I do see strengths in each rig already.
  
 So far my favorite combos are quad EL3n and 6SN7 drivers + 6AS7GA.
 And FYI for anybody who's no sure: just think of it this way: driver tubes go in the front, like with a car.
  
 However a few questions:
 * Would it be adviseable to have 6J5's in single mode as drivers, or dual mode as powers?
 * Any thoughts on reducing hum from the quad EL3N setup?
 * Would it be adviseable to leave the Elise on all night with music playing to expedite the burn-in?
 * Is it adviseable to use 6SN7's as powers instead of drivers?
  
 + Gilbert had a question about OTL on the last page


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> So I hope when ConnieFlyer sees this, he's not too let down - because the Elise completely CREAMED the Ember in every way! The sound of these two are like comparing a toy truck to a real truck - and that's even with the Ember's finest tube combo (Visseaux 6J5; of which unfortunately 6J5's don't seem to perform well with the Elise). I will redo the comparison again when I have settled down sometime... also will compare the Elise to my upgraded Koss ESP-950 electrostat headphone rig... though I do see strengths in each rig already.
> 
> So far my favorite combos are quad EL3n and 6SN7 drivers + 6AS7GA.
> And FYI for anybody who's no sure: just think of it this way: driver tubes go in the front, like with a car.
> ...


 

 Hi DL,
  
 Trying to answer your multiple questions.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't use 6J5 so I'll pass on that question.
  
 Are you having hum from quad EL3N? Quad EL3N seems to work ok with HD650 or HD600. For that matter T1 too. However if you think quad EL3N sounds good, wait till you try 6xEL3N. You'll start seeing mermaids and unicorns. 
  
 I don't recommend leaving Elise power on unattended. That includes leaving it on while you sleep. Burn in will come about as you enjoy Elise...gradually. What's the hurry? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You can use 6SN7 as powers but as you observed, the sound is thin. Using EL3N and 4x6SN7 will work better but it's still not as lush.
  
 So for you with the tubes that you have, try these combos:-
  
 6SN7 and 6AS7GA
 Quad EL3N
 EL3N and 6AS7GA - this should sound satisfactory.
 As I said, 6xEL3N sounds great if you want to go the mile.
  
 Or buy a pair of Thompson 6080 or Mullard 6080 and use them as power tubes with EL3N as drivers. This is low cost and sounds very good.
  
 As for Gilbert's question, I'm pretty sure Elise is OTL but I'll leave it to @hypnos1 to confirm.


----------



## UntilThen

gilbertasm said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've read in original Elise thread that this amplifier is  SE *OTL *type.  Is this really the case? I ask, because there is no mention of word OTL in Felix Audio  Elise  page.


 

 Hi Gilbert, I'm pretty sure Elise is OTL but I'll leave this for @hypnos1 to confirm. Better still I'll just direct this question to Lukasz. He will have a definitive answer for me.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi this is the bringers of wars, peace and love.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Amphitheater wide sound that swirls 360 degrees in your head. Superb imaging. Instruments separation so precise you can pinpoint where that beautiful violinist sits. Bass sounding like bass should. Sound so clear it's like your ears have been through super clean.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> *Vs. Liquid Carbon in Balanced mode*: The Elise kills the LC, hands down. It makes the LC sound muddy, congested and sub-par instrument separation... a glorious opposite for the Elise.
> 
> *Vs. Ember*: Everything about the Ember yells out "imitation" to my ears - like a wanna be amp, period in comparison.
> 
> The Elise has a divine realism, great PRaT / dynamics, full bodied, lifelike / realistic, and compared to the above two 'amps', dynamics seem at least 30% better, stage possibly up to 50% better, and overall resolution much more refined.




Ha! Congrats DL!!

I knew this would happen!

Enjoy your new 'soul transportation' device!


----------



## hypnos1

gilbertasm said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've read in original Elise thread that this amplifier is  SE *OTL *type.  Is this really the case? I ask, because there is no mention of word OTL in Felix Audio  Elise  page.


 
  
 Hi gilbertasm....yes, this is indeed an OTL amp - ie. no output transformer...the power tubes (+ capacitors) do the job instead (fors and againsts, as with most aspects of amp design, it would appear lol!!).
  


decentlevi said:


> Hey H1, one of the main masterminds! Thanks for the official welcome! Though my posts will only be occasional as I'm working on a home-business these days.
> 
> OK I MAY HAVE TO TAKE BACK THAT MENTION OF DISTORTION WITH THE EL3N's. Looks it may have been down to a cable issue with my modded headphones - will re-test later.
> 
> ...


 
  
 "Beyond words" indeed, DL....but you _will_ find them - eventually!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Your hum may well be down to the need for further burn-in. If not, then you would probably need to go UT's 4xEL3N power route if you want to stay with them, or as he says, go for some of the better 6080s (GEC would probably be best), or a nice pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs.
 That 'tubey' sound of the EL3Ns will most certainly become less so with _*extended*_ burn-in, but that 'euphonic'/'musical' sound is its trademark and appeal..._*to most*_, that is!!
  
 Glad you're still liking her LOL!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi. Wow, it's hard to believe you are just getting the Elise. You are already one of the "old timers" here))) Very happy for you


----------



## Lord Raven

Congratulations to DL, thanks for bringing the excitement back to the thread  Don't blow it up yet, let it run for a while.. LOL


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Congrats on #44! Enjoyed reading your wide eyed first impressions!
  
 I came from a heavily modded Little Dot MKIII. When I first turned on the Elise with stock tubes, my first thought was: There is no going back - this is so far superior. And sure enough, my LD MKIII has been collecting dust since then....
  
 However, just be prepared that the Elise gets better and better. It needs some 150 hours of burn-in to sound it's best, but then the EL3N need some 400 (!) hours to really burn in....It is a very pleasant journey though, and no need to rush.
  
 Ultimately, it seems that everyone finds his favorite tube complement to suit his taste and equipment with the great Elise amp.


----------



## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> So I hope when ConnieFlyer sees this, he's not too let down - because the Elise completely CREAMED the Ember in every way! The sound of these two are like comparing a toy truck to a real truck - and that's even with the Ember's finest tube combo (Visseaux 6J5; of which unfortunately 6J5's don't seem to perform well with the Elise). I will redo the comparison again when I have settled down sometime... also will compare the Elise to my upgraded Koss ESP-950 electrostat headphone rig... though I do see strengths in each rig already.
> 
> So far my favorite combos are quad EL3n and 6SN7 drivers + 6AS7GA.
> And FYI for anybody who's no sure: just think of it this way: driver tubes go in the front, like with a car.
> ...



6J5 can be used using ecc31 6n7 to 6sn7 adapter. I think vt231 or directly 6n7gt or ecc31 are better.

About dual 6j5 as power, it is like using a single 6sn7 and it can be ok with hd650 but probably not enough current for low-z can.

I got some old el3n that hum when used as driver and some other tubes that are hum free. Verify if the heating pin are clean you can use deoxyd product and/or just some iron wool to cleanup. 

The same tube used as power do not hum at all. Also you will notice that hd650 is very sensible to hum. 

Take your time and enjoy !


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Hello all 
  
 Wow ! Over 600plus pages already?


----------



## Oskari

decentlevi said:


> *Quad 6J5 as drivers* with GE 6AS7GA:
> 
> These are the tubes (specifically the Visseaux 6J5) that are universally regarded as the king for the Ember amp. I discovered they should be compatible with the Elise in dual mode, so after confirming this with Feliks Audio, I went ahead and ordered an extra set of adapters to try it on the Elise. (dual Visseaux and dual Zenith 6J5; both of which are almost identical in sound and construction). These are single triode tubes so must be run in dual mode in order to get a stereo signal, and are only compatible as drivers, as far as I understand.
> 
> Unfortunately, the sound I got seemed a bit 'thinner' and slightly hollowed out compared to this combo I first tried.:




6J5 = ½ 6SN7

The single triode in the 6J5 is the same triode that the 6SN7 has two of.

Technically, with the 2 × 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter, the 6J5 should work fine with the Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

citizenlin said:


> Hello all
> 
> Wow ! Over 600plus pages already?


 
  
 Hi there stranger...so what'ya got to tell us, mon ami?...and tell _*all*_, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hypnos1 said:


> Hi there stranger...so what'ya got to tell us, mon ami?...and tell _*all*_, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hello friend, 
  
 Hope all my fellow " Lucky Ones " are doing well and still enjoying Ms Elise. I've been on 2399-EL3N combo  for past few months. This is my current favorite. So many pages to catch up. New combos, adapters and some dramas (interesting ). I am curious about 6 x 6BL7 or 4 x 6BL7 with EL3N but not curious enough to pay 100 USD for adapters hehe...  way way too much for adapter imo. 
 I am still on honeymoon mood with Ms Elise and spend good few hours daily. Going on 5 months and still loving the sound that she puts out.  YUP... We are "the lucky ones". Tube rolling is very exciting but No tube rolling is very peaceful  hahaha


----------



## hpamdr

citizenlin said:


> Hello friend,
> 
> Hope all my fellow " Lucky Ones " are doing well and still enjoying Ms Elise. I've been on 2399-EL3N combo  for past few months. This is my current favorite. So many pages to catch up. New combos, adapters and some dramas (interesting ). I am curious about 6 x 6BL7 or 4 x 6BL7 with EL3N but not curious enough to pay 100 USD for adapters hehe...  way way too much for adapter imo.
> I am still on honeymoon mood with Ms Elise and spend good few hours daily. Going on 5 months and still loving the sound that she puts out.  YUP... We are "the lucky ones". Tube rolling is very exciting but No tube rolling is very peaceful  hahaha


 
 You have some  2399 (rebranded 5998 by chatham) they sound wery well with EL3N and can power any cans fully 
  
 With 4 or 6 6BL7 if you want to use EL3N, you will have also to add an external tranformer.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi CL,
  
 Long time no hear. So you're running EL3N with 2399 which is 5998. That's the benchmark I wrote about sometime ago. I still like that. One of my fav but I'm digging EL3N with Tung Sol 7236 as well.
  
 Your Elise must be more than 5 months. Mine just clear 5 months on the 27th March. All my tubes still works and no hums - magic. I'm going easy on the sockets now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Don't forget to share here. Enjoy !!!


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hpamdr said:


> You have some  2399 (rebranded 5998 by chatham) they sound wery well with EL3N and can power any cans fully
> 
> With 4 or 6 6BL7 if you want to use EL3N, you will have also to add an external tranformer.


 
  


hpamdr said:


> You have some  2399 (rebranded 5998 by chatham) they sound wery well with EL3N and can power any cans fully
> 
> With 4 or 6 6BL7 if you want to use EL3N, you will have also to add an external tranformer.


 
  
 Hello hpamdr
  
 Yes , 2399 are the same as 5998. Oh yeah don't forget the requirement for external power running multi 6BL7s. I am interested in 6 x 6BL7 but don't want to spend 100 + for adapter and external PSU. 


untilthen said:


> Hi CL,
> 
> Long time no hear. So you're running EL3N with 2399 which is 5998. That's the benchmark I wrote about sometime ago. I still like that. One of my fav but I'm digging EL3N with Tung Sol 7236 as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Hellllllo UT
  
 Been awhile, How are things at your side of the planet? 5998+EL3N combo is my favorite also. I do have a pair of 7236 but I don't use them much solid bass, big sound stage but lack of details and run little hotter than 5998/2399.
 1. 2399 & EL3N
 2. 2399 & FDD20
 3. 2399 & 2031
  
 These are my top 3 ranking
  
 I did upgrade my bifrost to 4490 and very happy with it. Worth every penny


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Hellllllo UT
> 
> Been awhile, How are things at your side of the planet? 5998+EL3N combo is my favorite also. I do have a pair of 7236 but I don't use them much solid bass, big sound stage but lack of details and run little hotter than 5998/2399.
> 1. 2399 & EL3N
> ...


 
 Things are well on my side of the planet. No sightings of any martians.... yet. I'll let you know if I see any. Just said goodbye to Summer and it's lovely Autumn now.
  
 Those combinations are indeed perennial favorites. Should be very happy with them. 
  
 At this point, it's worthwhile looking at source and headphones upgrade instead of spending endlessly on tubes. Good to hear you're getting good results with the bifrost upgrade. Did you have to send your unit back for the upgrade?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Things are well on my side of the planet. No sightings of any martians.... yet. I'll let you know if I see any. Just said goodbye to Summer and it's lovely Autumn now.
> 
> Those combinations are indeed perennial favorites. Should be very happy with them.
> 
> At this point, it's worthwhile looking at source and headphones upgrade instead of spending endlessly on tubes. Good to hear you're getting good results with the bifrost upgrade. Did you have to send your unit back for the upgrade?


 
 I just ordered the 4490 board for 70 USD and swap it out by myself.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> I just ordered the 4490 board for 70 USD and swap it out by myself.


 
 Looks like a reasonable price.
  
 Did you have Bifrost multibit before?
  
 What differences can you describe going with the 4490 upgrade? Would you consider the improvement huge?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Looks like a reasonable price.
> 
> Did you have Bifrost multibit before?
> 
> What differences can you describe going with the 4490 upgrade? Would you consider the improvement huge?


 
 I had UBER and upgrade to 4490. Yeah, big improvement for taste. Bigger sound stage but major improvement is " more detail with mellower sound compare to UBER. 4490 lets me forget that I am still using SS power amp. The result is spending more time listen to music. I drive my system pretty hard daily.


----------



## UntilThen

I wrote this to Connieflyer convincing him to buy the T1 at a cheap price of $700 plus now.

Here's my persuasion...

Remember its $1500 when it was still the flavour of the month.

All I care is that it's still one of the top headphone on the market.

Very clear, defined sound. You hear parts of music you've not heard before.
Soundstage is amazing and will wow you. Imaging is spot on. This headphone has speed and is agile to keep pace with mesmerizing sound track. From the highest note to the lowest bass, you will be enthralled, culminating with a lucious midrange where the vocals will surely give you eargasms.

Bass is amazing quality bass. This is not dorf dorf Dr Beats bass. This is high fidelity bass that will make '2 steps from Hell' sound bad ass. This is low extended bass that will thump your chest and make you hug your pillow.

When you hear T1 on Elise with 6×EL3N you'll be mumbling incoherently like a buffoon. Except you'll look much much prettier.


----------



## connieflyer

You are a marketing devil, as in the devil made me do it!  Thanks for the info, sure they will be number one with me.


----------



## UntilThen

You won't regret it Connieflyer


----------



## hpamdr

untilthen said:


> You won't regret it Connieflyer


 

 I Also have T1 and with Elise it is a wonderful Headphone.
 I did compared with gen2 on Elise but still prefer my gen1 with big stock cable I found the sound more precise and more enjoyable with micro-details (probably because i'm used to it).  Thx to 30Days money back


----------



## aqsw

Hey DL,

Congrats on the new amp. I'm glad you like it as much as you do. It really is extraordinary. I don't post much anymore as I don't roll anymore. Im using EL3Ns as drivers
and stock powers or 6080s. Doing a lot of listening though. I also stated the Felix killed my LC. Be prepared for some angry pms from the Cavalli boys!.. 

The ethers are phenominal with this amp too, when uou get the right tubes. You are now one of the "lucky ones".


----------



## aqsw

Sorry, double post.


----------



## UntilThen

Not forgetting the Ember boys !!!


----------



## DecentLevi

Fellow Head-Fi'er Gzone3element stopped by my place for a mini-meet today. We compared my electrostatic rig to his Luxman P-1 amp to the Elise, using a Sony MDR-CD3000, modded HP-100 and HD 650 headphones.
  
 Between the Koss ESP-950 headphones with Stax SRM-1 MK2 electrostatic amp versus the Elise, we generally thought the *soundstage, speed and details were superior on the electrost rig, but the Elise won with impact & bass definition.*
  
 Between the Luxman P-1 and the Elise, we generally agreed the Elise has a much wider soundstage and better bass definition. *I personally preferred the Elise to the Luxman hands-down* because the FR was more linear, better stage and lushness. And the Luxman is a (discontinued) amp *worth $2,400*.
  
 Luxman P-1

_(stock photo)_
  
 Koss ESP 950 with Stax SRM-1 MK2

  
  
 We were switching between the quad EL3N, and the 6AS7GA + two 6SN7 tubes on the Elise
  
 PS- performance this great when the Elise isn't even burned in yet!


----------



## CITIZENLIN

decentlevi said:


> Oh also folks - what was that that was being said earlier about letting tubes cool down before swapping them? Mine are getting super hot now. What if I were to use a sort of glove for my hand, would that be OK for the tubes?
> 
> Oh also I want to point out that amazingly, the above comparison with Elise coming out on top of the LC was actually with the Elise being in SE and the LC in balanced!


 
 Congrats on your new marriage and be ready for long long honeymoon trip. I am glad you love her right out of the box. What is your S/N?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Between the Koss ESP-950 headphones with Stax SRM-1 MK2 electrostatic amp versus the Elise, we generally thought the *soundstage, speed and details were superior on the electrost rig, but the Elise won with impact & bass definition.*
> 
> Between the Luxman P-1 and the Elise, we generally agreed the Elise has a much wider soundstage and better bass definition. *I personally preferred the Elise to the Luxman hands-down* because the FR was more linear, better stage and lushness. And the Luxman is a (discontinued) amp *worth $2,400*.


 
 I agree with this assessment. When I heard the Stax SR-009 with Blue Hawaii electrostatic tube amp, those were my impressions too. You wouldn't be looking at the Stax setup if you're looking for impact and bass definition. Elise with T1 is more exciting for me. 
  
 The Luxman looks gorgeous though.


----------



## DecentLevi

Also when testing my HP-100 headphones with the elise, I've gotten some strange results:
  
 With quad EL3N, there's some awful distortion. I'm talking a sort of 'rippling' / peaking sound that's always present regardless of recording, input volume, etc that was very unlistenable. With EL3N as Powers and others as driver, the distortion was reduced by about half, and with other tubes, there was no distortion at all on these headphones. And with quad EL3N on other hedphones, there's only a very nuance trace of distortion.
  
 It must have something to do with the fact that these are *32 ohm headphones*. I take it the Elise is purposed around 200+ ohm headphones, but this doesn't explain why these were only distorting with one type of tubes, while they were just fine with others. Has anyone else had an issue with driving 32-ohm headphones on Elise?
  
 Possibly with EL3N only as drivers, the problem would be fixed but for now I'm using other tubes with them.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> You won't regret it Connieflyer


 
 +1
  UT. I replaced all the shelves of my audio rack with " marble chopping blocks from IKEA. They are perfect size. 
  
  


hpamdr said:


> I Also have T1 and with Elise it is a wonderful Headphone.
> I did compared with gen2 on Elise but still prefer my gen1 with big stock cable I found the sound more precise and more enjoyable with micro-details (probably because i'm used to it).  Thx to 30Days money back


 
 +1
  
 i do love my T1 with Ms Elise . I got mine for 650 USD (brand new) 6 months ago
 .


----------



## UntilThen

My HE560 is 35ohms and I have no problems. Have also tried Sennheiser Momentum which is 18ohms and plays well too.
  
 The problem here is with quad EL3N. It isn't sufficient to drive lower impedance headphones. My HE560 has distortion and breakup. When I go with 6xEL3N (i.e. 2xEL3N as drivers and 4xEL3N as power tubes) this is where I get sonic bliss. HE560 works fine then and sounds beautiful.
  
 EL3N with standard power tubes like 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, GE 6AS7GA should work well with your low impedance. For that matter any 6AS7 and 6080 variants with EL3N as drivers.
  
 So... if you like quad EL3N sound, I strongly suggest you to go with 6xEL3Ns. You'll be pleased.
  
@DecentLevi I don't think it's a good idea to use EL3N as power tubes with other drivers. Doesn't work that well for me. However if you have EL3N as drivers with quad EL3N as powers, that's when it sounds lovely. Sakuma style - EL3N driving EL3N sounds lovely.
  
 See this article.   
 https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/el3n_se_sakuma.php


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> i do love my T1 with Ms Elise . I got mine for 650 USD (brand new) 6 months ago
> .


 
 650 USD brand new !!! Amazing price for a great sounding headphone with Elise.
  
 Note T1 sounded terrible off a solid state to me but with Elise, everything changes. Heard it with Violectric V281. Pretty good too but I still prefer T1 with Elise. Great synergy with a tube amp.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> 650 USD brand new !!! Amazing price for a great sounding headphone with Elise.
> 
> Note T1 sounded terrible off a solid state to me but with Elise, everything changes. Heard it with Violectric V281. Pretty good too but I still prefer T1 with Elise. Great synergy with a tube amp.


 
 I didn't even try SS amp with any of my HPs.
  
 Oh!! Better yet ., 650 USD for brand new T1 (free shipping and no tax)


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


>


 
@DecentLevi what cable are you using on that HD650?


----------



## DecentLevi

OMG This is my total sweet spot so far!:
*EL3N as DRIVER + 6AS7GA as POWERS*

  
This combo has EVERYTHING in SPADES! This is THE SOUND to aspire to!!! For me it's working better than quad EL3N, being slightly more natural than lush.
*The EL3N's really perform better as drivers than powers*, because at least in my setup, the distortion I was getting from them as powers on low-z cans and the hum are both gone now.
  
Now going back to quad EL3N I'm getting a pretty bad distortion on both channels, even with the HD650 and now a channel imbalance. 
Must be a bad pair... luckily I bought 3 pairs already, so I swapped the unused pair, for an alternate quad El3N combo
  
Now I'm questinging the above combo already. This seems lusher and more intamite with more lifelike treble, whereas the above combo has more treble extension yet somewhat artificial.
  
I've also tried the externally heated FDD20's and like the clarity, but will have to find a way to get rid of a monster hummm before proceeding with those


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh, that was only a stock photo from Google.
  
 Also my Elise was #44


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> OMG This is my total sweet spot so far!:
> *EL3N as DRIVER + 6AS7GA as POWERS*


 
 This is what I ask you to try yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quad EL3N channel imbalance could possibly be due to the EL3N paddle feet not contacting well with the adapter plates. Get a small screw driver and work out the contacts and reseat the tube again. As I mentioned earlier, EL3N as power tubes are best used in this combination - 2xEL3N drivers and 4xEL3N powers.
  
 EL3N and 6AS7GA may sound good to you but get a better power tube such as Tung Sol 5998, Chatham 6AS7G or even Mullard 6080 and you'll be further impressed.
  
 Basically as you already like EL3N sound as drivers, seek out these combinations:-
  
 EL3N with Tung Sol 5998
 EL3N with Chatham 6AS7G
 EL3N with GEC 6080 ( 170 GBP a pair at Langrex )
 EL3N with Mullard 6080 (cheaper alternative)
  
 Of course you can go with EL3N and GEC 6AS7G 
  
 A possible cheaper alternative is to try EL3N with 2x6BL7.


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


>


 
@CITIZENLIN  what feet are those you're using on Elise? Looks like she has shoes or boots. 
  
 Omg look at all the fans around it. Do you really need them?


----------



## Audict123

audict123 said:


> Same procedure, now with the FDD20 adapters. Before shrinking, I cut out a small hole in the lower part of the tubing with a leather punch to guide the wire through. When shrinking, start around that area and make sure the alignment of that hole with the exit point of the cable is good, then shrink the entire tube. 2 adapters done in 15mins, including trimming of the edges.


 
  
 Hi there people. This is a very egocentric post in which I reply to an old post from myself to announce a name change. I'm no longer registered under [my first name]123 but rather as Audict123 from now on Head-Fi. Thanks to administrator Currawong for that. It's only done for general privacy reasons. I picked this post because that is one of the more recognizable ones from my hand.
  
 Typical characteristics of my posts so far were (a) questions (b) some stuff on tubes and adapters (c) the absence of an actual Elise! That is about to change though, I got a message that my Elise should arrive any moment. DecentLevi only just beat me to it. Congrats on getting yours DL! Your enthusiasm and favourable comparisons make me even more impatient. Don't want to leave the house for fear that I miss the courier .....


----------



## UntilThen

Haha got me worried there wondering who is this Audict123 
  
 Well can't wait for you to get your Elise and I reckon it will come in RED colour.


----------



## UntilThen

Ladies and Gentlemen - SARA


----------



## UntilThen

Here's your red Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hey DL,
> 
> Congrats on the new amp. I'm glad you like it as much as you do. It really is extraordinary. I don't post much anymore as I don't roll anymore. Im using EL3Ns as drivers
> and stock powers or 6080s. Doing a lot of listening though. I also stated the Felix killed my LC. Be prepared for some angry pms from the Cavalli boys!..
> ...


 

 What do you mean you don't post much anymore. We haven't heard much of your new tube DAC with Elise. Give us the low down on that combo. A better picture will be nice... with Ether-C.


----------



## DecentLevi

Congradulations @Audict123 on your incoming Elise. We would love to hear your impressions. With how otherwordly my 6AS7GA and assorted 6SN7 tubes sound, I wouldn't be surprised if the stock tubes sound good too. I wonder if you've upgraded tubez yet.
  
 And what about @connieflyer - haven't heard anything from you since I posted about mine arriving. And you know what this means, just 2-3 weeks until yours comes


----------



## UntilThen

Connie flyer is going to hit the ground running as soon as the plane lands with Elise. He's been planning undercover all these while.
  
 Audict has a mountain of tubes ready to fire away.


----------



## UntilThen

I've been listening to Randy Crawford's albums. As usual my headphones gets rotated with Elise and the tubes I'm using are EL3N with Tung Sol 7236. Really impressed with this power tube. Tight and controlled, it has a more pin point accurate tone than the 5998. Contrary to CL's experience, I'm getting amazing clarity and details. It's a definite winner for me.
  
 EL3N with Tung Sol 7236 is one of my favorite combination.


----------



## JazzVinyl

citizenlin said:


> I do love my T1 with Ms Elise . I got mine for 650 USD (brand new) 6 months ago
> .




Hello CL...!!

Your system looks SO FINE!!!

Yeah for the cooling fans, and elevating your Elise to get get air flow underneath. 

Very wise, my friend!





.


----------



## aqsw

decentlevi said:


> Also when testing my HP-100 headphones with the elise, I've gotten some strange results:
> 
> With quad EL3N, there's some awful distortion. I'm talking a sort of 'rippling' / peaking sound that's always present regardless of recording, input volume, etc that was very unlistenable. With EL3N as Powers and others as driver, the distortion was reduced by about half, and with other tubes, there was no distortion at all on these headphones. And with quad EL3N on other hedphones, there's only a very nuance trace of distortion.
> 
> ...


 
 Same here. That's why Im using the setup I have. My LCDs were distorting and I sold them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. My Ethers are even lower impedance. They sound phenominal but
 with the right tubes. My 5998s as powers were terrible. Mazdas as drivers were unlistenable. No more rolling for me.
  
 U.T. I don't know how to describe the new dac, but WOW!!!! Best investment I have made. I really loved the Hegel, but it really doesn't compare to the new one.
 Piano notes are crystal clear. Cymbals to die for. Never heard a dac that pulls it off like that before.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @CITIZENLIN, your listening den looks *so* good...is it out-of-bounds to anyone or any_thing_ else, lol?!
  
 Interesting about those fans...my EL3N/GEC CV2523 combo has the amp running just slightly warm - do you have very high ambient temp?...
  
 Glad you're still liking the EL3Ns...CHEERS!
  
 ps....Elise herself may well run cool, but as for _*me*_...well, now with a good few 100s of hours on my own combo, more and more of my old favourites get me running real _*HOT*_, lol!! - Fleetwood Mac's "Oh Daddy" and "Gold Dust" never did this to me before (not to this degree, anyway LOL!!)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

@DecentLevi...looks like you are encountering - as many others have before - the weird and wonderful world of headphone synergy, which sometimes appears to defy what specifications might dictate...witness UT's success with HE560 for example. Frustratingly, it would appear that a good deal of trial and error from one system to another is the only way to discover just what works well, and what doesn't. I suspect you're in for a very interesting (if frustrating!) time finding your own best combos...but you are still in the very early days of such discovery, of course...take things steadily, mon ami.
  
 You thought you may have one or two bad EL3Ns...how are they in the driver sockets? And as UT says, sometimes the tube's contact with the adapter can prove a bit tricky.
  
 ps. Got a birthday coming soon?...give out some serious hints for a nice pair of T1s, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I swear they were made purely for Elise (and vice versa)!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> I've also tried the externally heated FDD20's and like the clarity, but will have to find a way to get rid of a monster hummm before proceeding with those


 
  
 DL:  I don't know if someone has already written you about this. I had the same problem at first with the FDD20s. Running a wire from the ground on the external power supply to one of the RCA ground sides on the Elise totally solved the problem for me.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> ps. Got a birthday coming soon?...give out some serious hints for a nice pair of T1s, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good advice @DecentLevi. My new HD800S has not yet replaced in my heart the T1 I sold. Time will tell, but I am certainly you would love the T1.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> U.T. I don't know how to describe the new dac, but WOW!!!! Best investment I have made. I really loved the Hegel, but it really doesn't compare to the new one.
> Piano notes are crystal clear. Cymbals to die for. Never heard a dac that pulls it off like that before.


 
 Sounds like a DAC to die for. What tubes is it using?
  
 Me I just love my setup. I've been continually amazed each time I listen to music with Elise as the heart of the system and this has been going on for 5 months. The excitement hasn't died. It just keep getting better and better. Best $649 I've ever spend.  Even though that's $1000 in aussie currency.


----------



## hpamdr

pctazhp said:


> DL:  I don't know if someone has already written you about this. I had the same problem at first with the FDD20s. Running a wire from the ground on the external power supply to one of the RCA ground sides on the Elise totally solved the problem for me.


 
  
 2DL.
 A very good design for externally heated tube is to use a single transformer with two 6v secondary and have a zero/common connected to ground pin of your 115V plug.
 It seems that it is the scheme used by JV, but power  tubes are less humming than drivers.


----------



## Audict123

Elise No 45 has arrived on my doorstep. I'm a very happy camper. Already with stock tubes, I loved the sound. Have been rolling quite some tubes and most work very well. Some combinations simply knocked my socks off...  Like others have reported the new Visseaux 6N7G (bought from ) distort heavily. The funny thing is: some used ones (that are identical otherwise) do not and they sound marvelous! Maybe they need some playtime to stabilize, I will check that later. No need to rush things. I will report on my findings later, I need time to sit down and listen now....


----------



## supersonic395

audict123 said:


> Elise No 45 has arrived on my doorstep. I'm a very happy camper. Already with stock tubes, I loved the sound. Have been rolling quite some tubes and most work very well. Some combinations simply knocked my socks off...  Like others have reported the new Visseaux 6N7G (bought from ) distort heavily. The funny thing is: some used ones (that are identical otherwise) do not and they sound marvelous! Maybe they need some playtime to stabilize, I will check that later. No need to rush things. I will report on my findings later, I need time to sit down and listen now....




Could you give more impressions of the stock tubes please? Particularly the bass, mids and treble response with your headphones of choice?


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @CITIZENLIN, your listening den looks *so* good...is it out-of-bounds to anyone or any_thing_ else, lol?!
> 
> Interesting about those fans...my EL3N/GEC CV2523 combo has the amp running just slightly warm - do you have very high ambient temp?...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks hypnos
 Yes still loving ELISE, EL3N, FDD20, 6N7G , i know I have many fans HAHA, i don't use Aircon/heater at home( can't stand air coming from air duct). Ambient temp can go up to 30c in summer time currently about 17c.


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello CL...!!
> 
> Your system looks SO FINE!!!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks JV
  
@UntilThen @JazzVinyl 
  
 I know I might have gone overboard with PC Cooling fans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




At least they are in push pull configurations haha. I felt that 2399/5998 are almost hitting 100 c , 7236 to 110 c  depending on ambient temps, all drivers tube goes as high as 50c.
  
  
 I am using these vibration damper feet, If I remember correctly they are called (ISO BEARINGS BY AUDIOPRISM). They are almost 20 years old. Selling point that time (late 90s) was the material used on ball. That rubber will not bounce back when you drop it to ground unlike other type of rubber. I think I paid about 20 USD for set of 3.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> Elise No 45 has arrived on my doorstep. I'm a very happy camper. Already with stock tubes, I loved the sound. Have been rolling quite some tubes and most work very well. Some combinations simply knocked my socks off...  Like others have reported the new Visseaux 6N7G (bought from ) distort heavily. The funny thing is: some used ones (that are identical otherwise) do not and they sound marvelous! Maybe they need some playtime to stabilize, I will check that later. No need to rush things. I will report on my findings later, I need time to sit down and listen now....


 
  
 Hi (renamed!) A123...glad we have yet another HAPPY CAMPER....*CONGRATS *to you too! (I admire the patience some of you guys have had to draw on...but the wait is _always_ worth it, lol!...). 
And yes indeed...no need to rush things (but the temptation is almost too much to resist, that's for sure!). I'm sure we can all be patient in awaiting your later findings....but I wouldn't count on it, mon ami!!! 








...CHEERS!....


----------



## CITIZENLIN

audict123 said:


> Elise No 45 has arrived on my doorstep. I'm a very happy camper. Already with stock tubes, I loved the sound. Have been rolling quite some tubes and most work very well. Some combinations simply knocked my socks off...  Like others have reported the new Visseaux 6N7G (bought from ) distort heavily. The funny thing is: some used ones (that are identical otherwise) do not and they sound marvelous! Maybe they need some playtime to stabilize, I will check that later. No need to rush things. I will report on my findings later, I need time to sit down and listen now....


 
 Congrats to ya and welcome to LUCKY ONES CLUB. Hope Elise brings you joy and happiness for long time.
  
 Why do I still get excited when somebody else receiving their order of  new ELISE????


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Sounds like a DAC to die for. What tubes is it using?
> 
> Me I just love my setup.* I've never been amazed* each time I listen to music with Elise as the heart of the system and this has been going on for 5 months. The excitement hasn't died. It just keep getting better and better. Best $649 I've ever spend.  Even though that's $1000 in aussie currency.


 
  
 Hey UT...better get editing FAST, my friend...you missed out the "not", methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but we'll let you off this time, given the hour Down Under lol!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and Svetlana 6H13C (Elise stock tubes) impressions.
  
 I'll try and described what I hear from these stock tubes on Elise with T1. This is what I'm listening now. All for you @supersonic395. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've a set of songs that I know reasonably well for my listening session:-
  
 Dreams - Fleetwood Mac
 Private Investigations - Dire Straits
 Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd
 Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2 - Pink Floyd
 Preacherman - Melody Gardot
 Rainy Nights in Georgia - Randy Crawford
 California Dreaming - Diana Krall
 Nine Million Bicycles - Katie Melua
 Hold On - Holly Cole
 Slippin' Away - Max Merritt
 Heart of Gold - Neil Young
  
 Volume is at 10am for a comfortably loud listen with Beyer T1.
  
 These are very conservative scores in comparison with my other choice tubes.
 Treble - 7
 Midrange - 8
 Bass - 8.5
 Soundstage - 7.5
 Imaging - 7.5
 Timbre - 8.5
  
 Sound signature - warm, lush, good bass impact, treble is alright but not particularly revealing, 7th row seat presentation, vocals are surprisingly good. Overall it's an enjoyable listen. Warm, a bit dark, relax and slightly moody tone.... which may not be a bad thing for Moody Blues 
  
 If I didn't hear any other tubes, these would have been very good with Elise. I'd have been impressed, listening through T1. However once I've heard other choice drivers like EL3N, FDD20, ECC31, C3G, Mazda 6N7G, better 6SN7 and choice power tubes like 5998, better 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, the stock tubes sounded a bit dull by comparison. Yup only sounded this way when you have a chance to listen to better sounding tubes.
  
 Even if you switch to a sweet sounding Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top with Tung Sol 5998, you're get way more enjoyment than the stock tubes. In fact you'll be quite blown away by the difference.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...better get editing FAST, my friend...you missed out the "not", methinks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha ... yeah what a difference a missing 'not' makes... can't blame me, it's 4:58am and even the birds are sleeping.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright @Audict123  over to you. We want to hear your 1st impressions. That other post doesn't count. 
  
 Spew it out. Crap, so so, good, awesome, funtastic, let the expletives flow. We can handle it.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and Svetlana 6H13C (Elise stock tubes) impressions.
> 
> I'll try and described what I hear from these stock tubes on Elise with T1. This is what I'm listening now. All for you @supersonic395
> . :wink_face:
> ...




Many thanks


----------



## CITIZENLIN

@UntilThen
  
 I am revisiting TS 7236 now. Half an hour in. Temp hitting 113 c on 7236 and 45 c on EL3N. (without external fans)
 With fans on  TS 7236 -   87c
                      EL3N      -   35c 
  
 Ambient Temp 22c
  
 Do your tubes get this hot?


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> I am revisiting TS 7236 now. Half an hour in. Temp hitting 113 c on 7236 and 45 c on EL3N. (without external fans)
> With fans on  TS 7236 -   87c
> ...


 

 If the tubes are hot, it means your music is hot too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6080 feels the hottest. 7236 with the metal base feels less hot than the 6080 but hotter than 6AS7G. 
  
 I don't measure the temp but I find EL3N with any of the standard power tubes to be mildly warm. It's never been a problem for me, even in summer.
  
 However 6xEL3N at 5.4A total current draw is like having ice pops on a hot day. You can leave it on the whole day and it's still cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Winter will be great. I'll cherish the tube warm then. It'll be my mini heater.


----------



## hpamdr

citizenlin said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> I am revisiting TS 7236 now. Half an hour in. Temp hitting 113 c on 7236 and 45 c on EL3N. (without external fans)
> With fans on  TS 7236 -   87c
> ...


 
 For sure, you have 15W on each power tube  the most important is that the Elise does not run to hot on the Feliks Audio logo 
 If you feel that tube base are really hot, you can use a socket saver to save some heat transfer from the base to the amp chassis.
 I use those as Socket and Socket Saver (first very cheap second is DIY socket that can be used as saver)...


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Congrats to ya and welcome to LUCY ONES CLUB.


 
 Since when did we become the LUCY ONES CLUB.
  
 This is LUCY btw.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

hpamdr said:


> For sure, you have 15W on each power tube  the most important is that the Elise does not run to hot on the Feliks Audio logo
> If you feel that tube base are really hot, you can use a socket saver to save some heat transfer from the base to the amp chassis.
> I use those as Socket and Socket Saver (first very cheap second is DIY socket that can be used as saver)...


 
 Hello Hpamd
  
 Thanks , Luckily , Elise's transformer is just warm about 35 c and the rest of area are about 29 c.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> Since when did we become the LUCY ONES CLUB.
> 
> This is LUCY btw.


 
 oooops but I might like the lucy better. Nah....... hahah


----------



## oshipao

Hi guys,

First post here in this thread. Went nuts the other day and ordered an Elise and put the Bottlehead on the market.

I have read many pages of conversations and experiences for a rather long period of time. This lead me to my decision to make change.

How long so you reckon it will take for Feliks and his crew to get one shipped my way, 4-6 weeks? (sent an email that has not been replied)

Have a very good night now 

Regards Emil


----------



## connieflyer

I ordeed mine Feb 18 have invoice 50, 45 was just received today


----------



## supersonic395

connieflyer said:


> I ordeed mine Feb 18 have invoice 50, 45 was just received today




Impressions please?! Did you order yours with stock tubes?


----------



## pctazhp

In memory of Merle Haggard. Another great one has moved on to hillbilly heaven.


----------



## nykobing

Paid exactly 8 weeks ago today (Feb 10th) and I have not heard a peep yet. Invoice 43.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> First post here in this thread. Went nuts the other day and ordered an Elise and put the Bottlehead on the market.
> 
> ...


 

 Well done on that decision. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Realistically expect a turn around of 8 to 10 weeks for delivery from paying invoice. 
  
 When did you email Feliks Audio? Did you send to * *info@feliksaudio.pl


----------



## UntilThen

Invoice number and the serial number of your Elise do no correlate. @Audict123  is the last to receive his Elise and his serial number is #45.
  
 Sit tight @nykobing you will get yours. I know it's hard waiting as most of these guys will tell you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 connieflyer hasn't got his yet. His invoice number is 50 and he did not order with the stock tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

RIP Merle Haggard. Have loved his songs. 'Okie From Muskogee'.


----------



## UntilThen

@supersonic395 buying Elise can be quite an expensive initial expense. You can go with the stock tubes or forgo them and order these instead:-
  
 2 x Philips EL3N from
 http://www.acoustic-dimension.com at 20 euro each plus shipping.
 Just email them the quantity and Peter will get back to you.
  
 2 x EL3N to 6SN7 adaptors from 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
 2 x Mullard 6080 from 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805:g:7rkAAOSwF1dUUiu7
  
 I would recommend this combo. It's not overly expensive and has a clear, sweet tone with impactful bass and an engaging midrange. The choice is yours.
  
 This is how it looks:-  More importantly killer sound.


----------



## DecentLevi

connieflyer said:


> I ordeed mine Feb 18 have invoice 50, 45 was just received today


 
 I think he was saying his was #50, but someone else with #45 received theirs today


----------



## JazzVinyl

Pure Prairie League's song, dedicated to Merle Haggard:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhpq2oDPT9w[/VIDEO]



Dig that steel guitar!

RIP Merle....



.


----------



## UntilThen

Daymm why haven't I heard of Johnny Adams before. My feet are tapping. Shoulders mooving...


----------



## UntilThen

If I can sing like this, I'll release you !


----------



## UntilThen

and it gets better... sorry it's Johnny's day


----------



## pctazhp

Sorry @UntilThen. I spent far too many late nights in dark, smokey, cowboy bars with sawdust-covered floors and flashing neon Bud signs listening to "Release Me" the way it was meant to be sung. Like this:


----------



## UntilThen

I reckon Johnny Be Good is better


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I reckon Johnny Be Good is better


 
  
 You asked for it


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> @supersonic395
> buying Elise can be quite an expensive initial expense. You can go with the stock tubes or forgo them and order these instead:-
> 
> 2 x Philips EL3N from
> ...




Many thanks for this, I've saved these and will likely order them once I've spent at least a little time with the stock tubes


----------



## supersonic395

Btw do I need those adapters or can I plug the Philips EL3N straight into the Elise? Are the EL3Ns driver or power tubes? Apologies if I sound stupid but I'm relatively new to tube rolling


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Btw do I need those adapters or can I plug the Philips EL3N straight into the Elise? Are the EL3Ns driver or power tubes? Apologies if I sound stupid but I'm relatively new to tube rolling


 
 EL3N tubes will need those adapters. You'll be using them as drivers in the front like you see in the picture.
  
 Feel free to ask any questions SS.


----------



## hpamdr

supersonic395 said:


> Btw do I need those adapters or can I plug the Philips EL3N straight into the Elise? Are the EL3Ns driver or power tubes? Apologies if I sound stupid but I'm relatively new to tube rolling


 

 You do not need UT adapter ! 
  
 But you need some adapter to plug it into the ELise. Tube base is P8A and Elise have Octal socket.
  
 EL3N are defined as Vacuum Pentode  Power/Output but can be "strapped" into a single triode and used into Elise as a driver or a power tube.
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3n.html
  
 Usage info on a full EL3N SE amplifier https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/el3n_se_sakuma.php
  
 ----- Technical stuff 1/2 ----
  
  
 If you are confident with solder iron you can make your adapter yourself !
  
 See a possible scheme on next drawing.
  
 It is the most easy adapter to build if you have a plain strong copper wire .8 to 1mm. Even without wire insulation if you use pin 2 instead of pin 5....
  

  
 -- Technical Stuff 2/2 --
  
 The principle http://www.kaponk.com/~yanyong/ETF06TS.pdf
 Once you get the principle detailed on the previous pdf file and understand what is a dual triode and know that Elise use triode in //. you can also make dual adapter.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> EL3N tubes will need those adapters. You'll be using them as drivers in the front like you see in the picture.
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions SS.







hpamdr said:


> You do not need UT adapter !
> 
> But you need some adapter to plug it into the ELise. Tube base is P8A and Elise have Octal socket.
> 
> ...




Thank you to you both for your great answers 

Really looking forward to the Elise


----------



## hypnos1

oshipao said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> First post here in this thread. Went nuts the other day and ordered an Elise and put the Bottlehead on the market.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi oshipao...and WELCOME.
  
 I think everyone here would say you'd be nuts _*not*_ to go for the Elise, lol!...by all accounts she outperfoms the BH Crack by a good margin - especially with our latest tubes in place...(but let's not get ahead of ourselves here...just yet, anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Congrats by the way, if you've managed to read _half_ this and the original threads!!
  
 As others have intimated, it looks like the old 4 to 6 weeks is now more 8 to 10 I'm afraid - Easter hols and such, I suspect...(plus only the more experienced guys at Feliks-Audio are allowed anywhere near Elise, according to Lukasz...and there's no reason to doubt him IMHO!). But everyone will tell you she is well worth the wait...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


nykobing said:


> Paid exactly 8 weeks ago today (Feb 10th) and I have not heard a peep yet. Invoice 43.


 
  
 Looks like the Easter hols have held you up a bit too, nykobing...but hopefully you won't have too much longer to wait ( a good few seem to hear little, then WHAM!...a wonderful surprise!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


supersonic395 said:


> Btw do I need those adapters or can I plug the Philips EL3N straight into the Elise? Are the EL3Ns driver or power tubes? Apologies if I sound stupid but I'm relatively new to tube rolling


 
  
 Hi s395.
  
 The EL3N isn't plug 'n play I'm afraid - it needs either the adapter @UntilThen mentioned, or you must adapt it yourself, as hpamdr has shown...(however, if you have never done such work before, I myself would think twice before tackling this job - hpamdr (and I!) have done a fair bit of this kind of thing and so know (roughly!) what to look out for...there are a few pitfalls just waiting for the unwary IMHO. Just my 10 cents' worth, lol...
  
 hpamdr's - and UT's - reference to the 'Sakuma style' article is extremely interesting - said article was great encouragement for me to go ahead and experiment with UT's find, and I thank the Gods Elise took her in with gusto LOL!
  
 Your question - "is it driver or power tube" isn't at all stupid, mon ami - "pre", "input", "driver" and "power" are in fact sometimes used in slightly different contexts. In the aforementioned article, the use of the EL3N is NOT as the FINAL "power output" -  that is handled by a power (output) transformer. But in our Elise, which is an 'OTL' (ie Output Transformer 'LESS') amp, what we term the "power" tubes are indeed doing the job of the said transformer. And so _strictly_, I suppose they should always be called "power _output_" tubes, but it is generally accepted to just call them "powers"....hope I haven't confused you!
 This may well explain why some do not find using just 2 as powers is very successful, but 4 - as per UT - extremely so...
  
 Another point re. the EL3N - its base and contacts are totally different to the Octals used in the amp, and can be a very tight fit into the adapter at first...UT will be only too happy to advise you on such matters as and when the time comes...if necessary...CHEERS!.. and...GOOD LUCK...


----------



## gilbertasm

untilthen said:


> 2 x Mullard 6080 from
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805:g:7rkAAOSwF1dUUiu7
> 
> I would recommend this combo. It's not overly expensive and has a clear, sweet tone with impactful bass and an engaging midrange. The choice is yours.


 
  
 Hm, do you know what is the difference between these Mullard tubes and the other ones (in blue box) available from the same seller:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE/311478749131?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
  
 I found report by someone from head-fi that they are not quite happy with that white box tube:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/2025#post_11676756
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/2040#post_11680812
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/2055#post_11681413
  
 In white box Mulards seller claims that they are from 1975, while there are no dates provided in blue box Mullards, but I think you can decode date from serial once you get them 
  
 So the question is which one to get - white box or blue box, as the price is the same and they come from the same seller.


----------



## Oskari

gilbertasm said:


> Hm, do you know what is the difference between these Mullard tubes and the other ones (in blue box) available from the same seller:




The white-boxed CV tubes were packaged for the UK government.


----------



## mordy

Hi gilbertasm,
  
 Some time back I bought a pair of Mullard 6080 tubes from Langrex for roughly half the price of the ones you mentioned. The reason they were lower priced was that the metal band around  the base had an almost invisible crack in it - nothing that would effect the sound or function of the tube.
  
 You may want to email them and ask if they have any left if you are interested -  mine were marked AJ1   R6E5.


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Gilbert, both @Oskari and @mordy have pretty much answer your question. I would imagine the blue box to be packaged for the Queen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ok that's a joke but I think they should be similar quality ... I wouldn't know for sure as I haven't tried them. I bought mine off someone downuder and it looks like the white box version. By all means, write to James of Langrex. As mordy says, you might be able to pick up some cheap ones with very minor defect which doesn't affect the sound quality.
  
 Also, I suggested Mullard 6080 because it's still quite reasonable in price and has a bright and lively sound but still with the warm and lushness. Good midrange and solid bass. Langrex also have the premium GEC 6080. Again write to them and enquire, if you're willing to pay more.
  
 I like the coke bottle shaped power tubes more. Such as the Chatham 6AS7G and Tung Sol 5998. There's the premium GEC 6AS7G. There's more lushness and reverb... reverb with just the right touch. Not talking echo here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll find a good write up from Nick Tam in the Bottlehead Crack forum (back in 2012) on the various popular power tubes and Nick's assessment of the tubes are pretty spot on. Here's the link... 
  
 http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html


----------



## Audict123

Work and social life get in the way of listening to my brand new Elise, but here are some first impressions. Especially for UT, I included some superlatives.
  
 Combinations I tried that so far:
 - Fivre 6N7G 'horned' (both bought used) with Chatham 6520. Beautiful! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Unfortunately, one of the Fivres developed a problem (heater developed an 'on / off' problem - end of life?)
 - C3Gs with 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G. My vote goes to the combination with 5998. It's warmer, balance high/low is better. Awesome...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 - Chatham 6520 with EL3N. A bit dark perhaps but the quality of what is there is the more obvious. Very organic and spatial sound. Wow... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 - Chatham 6520 with Fivre 6N7GT. Some distortion (like with the 6N7G (see below) but much milder) in the first 5 mins but that passes quickly and completely. After that: Love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 - 5998 with Visseaux 6N7G. Fantastic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These Visseaux only work with the 5998. Combined with 6520 or 6AS7G there is heavy distortion at all normal volumes that remains even after 20 mins. Very strange is the fact that a pair of well used (for the looks of them) 6N7G DO work with all powers without that distortion. Unfortunately, one of these used tubes does make some funny noises now and then, but not the consistent distortion I get with the new Visseaux. 
  
 I won't give a ranking between the various tubes, it's way too early for that (perhaps 10 hours of play so far!) I am most impressed with the mids and highs which are very detailed yet 'stressless'. The lows could be crunchier but do sound very natural. I have more tubes to test but already I rolled way too much in too little time.... I will slow down and give Elise time to burn in.
  
 All tests done with HD650 (sometimes HD600). Source: streaming flac via a Squeezeplay Touch equivalent (a so called O2 Joggler) feeding an Audio GD DI-V3 usb interface into a Xindac Dac5 with various mods (discrete opamps and ps clock from Audio Gd),


----------



## UntilThen

Audict, I'm not surprised you're _very happy_ with those combinations. I've tried and love all of them. I do not have the Five 6N7GT.
  
 Fortunately, all my tubes behave and have no noise or hum. 
  
 Glad you're able to get hold of the Chatham 6520. They are supposed to be the premium Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 With the drivers and power tubes that you have, you're pretty much set for tubes. You've most of the cream. Now to sit back and enjoy the music. Soon you'll get to know the tone of each and every tube so well you can tell which tubes are in use, even when blind folded. They do sound distinctly different, some more subtle.


----------



## hpamdr

audict123 said:


> All tests done with HD650 (sometimes HD600). Source: streaming flac via a Squeezeplay Touch equivalent (a so called O2 Joggler) feeding an Audio GD DI-V3 usb interface into a Xindac Dac5 with various mods (discrete opamps and ps clock from Audio Gd),


 
 Hi A..e,
  
 Do you use tube or ss output with the Xindac if it is tube did you upgraded to E88CC ?
 Even if it is a very nice DAC, IMHO Elise deserve a more precise device to completely send you to the moon...


----------



## UntilThen

Audict any thoughts so far of how Elise stacks up with your previous Darkvoice 332 ?
  
 Close cousins? Sworn enemies ?


----------



## supersonic395

hypnos1 said:


> Hi oshipao...and WELCOME.
> 
> I think everyone here would say you'd be nuts _*not*_ to go for the Elise, lol!...by all accounts she outperfoms the BH Crack by a good margin - especially with our latest tubes in place...(but let's not get ahead of ourselves here...just yet, anyway!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Many thanks for your detailed post!
  
 You guys are awesome, just like the fine gentlemen at FeliksAudio!


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Many thanks for your detailed post!
> 
> You guys are awesome, just like the fine gentlemen at FeliksAudio!


 

 Careful we'll influence you to listen to Johnny be good.


----------



## geetarman49

hpamdr said:


> ...
> ----- Technical stuff 1/2 ----
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 as a member of the geriatric community, i am easily confused, so please bear with me.  if the inset is supposed to represent the topside view of the larger lug-side connection scheme, then surely something is amiss because blue is adjacent to green in one instance and not in the other --- on the other hand, if the inset is representing the case of pin2 vice pin5, then it should not be presented as an inset image ... no?
  
 wrt other matters:
 1. i have acquired the tubes (from langrex, the 'bay, UT and LR  --- thank you kindly, UT and LR)
 2. i have just acquired t1 (albeit some complications currently)
 3. i have sent Lukasz an email
 4. i need to order adapters --- i think i'll just jump straight to 6 el3n (2 + 4) despite having many of the others, but i don't see dual el3n to 6as7?  --->  need to order 6 x el3n to 6sn7; and 2 x dual 6sn7 to 6as7?


----------



## UntilThen

@geetarman49  long time no hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You need       5. Order a bottle of whisky or XO.
  
 ...and you need 2 of these for the 4 x EL3N power tubes....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB
  
 the front drivers 2 x EL3N use the single adapter...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
 What is the problem with the T1? What complications? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 This is what you get for the power tubes.


----------



## geetarman49

thanks for the clarification, UT.   i will order said adapters after dinner (szechuan buffet, courtesy of my austrian neighbor)
  
 i have emptied the octopus rum; now i have access to various ryes, rum, tequila ... but i think i'll go back to consuming wee drams of laphroaig quarter cask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 the t1 was supposed to be mint ... but one of the outer grills was damaged.  don't perceive any impact wrt audio quality & the situation is being resolved once i get info/price quote from beyer usa for part(s) ... great seller too ... all is good.
  
 later,


----------



## connieflyer

If you don't mind my asking, where did you buy your T1's from?  I just received mine and the grill on the right ear cup at the rear is scratched.  I bought through amazon, but the company that supplied them was Buywise.  Just wondered if it was a "coincidence".


----------



## connieflyer

UT nice and slow this morning....
 Polly Come Home, nice bass notes


----------



## geetarman49

surely coincidence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  --- bought mine privately from a head-fi'er in toronto.  mine had two 1/4" grooves on the right ear grill  --- also at the rear  sorry, at the front.
  
 reminds me of a story that my friend told me --- 4 guys (he was one of them) go to a chinese restaurant for lunch; it was the 4th day of the month; they sit at table #4; they all order combo #4 ---  he mentions to the waiter what are the odds - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4  .... the waiter looks at them & slowly starts to back up from the table (refusing to take their order) ... LOL.


----------



## Audict123

Hi Hpamdr,
  
 I use the solid state out of the Xindac. The tube there is just a buffer, added in the pathway. I do have a collection of ECC88/6DJ8 family tubes (for my Pathos Logos) but don't even have a tube in right now. After upgrading the opamps with Audio Gd discrete opamps and raising the voltage over them I'm pretty happy with the dac. It's clearly better than the modern Ifi nano iDSD that I use with one of the Figaro 332s amps. Still, upgraditis will hit me at some point


----------



## Audict123

As for UT's question: how does it compare with the Figaro 332S - the Figaro is no slouch... After tube rolling I settled on a Russian type and the LM Ericsson 403B. This amp is known for its synergy with the HD650 and it was the first headphone amp I had that really brought out the qualities of the HD650. The bass in this combo is really excellent. But I always felt that the mids and highs were a bit tiring for long listening (the least so with the LM). Now the Elise: the combinations that work well right now - like 5998 with either Visseaux 6N7G or C3Gs - are clearly in a different class. I just played Keb Mo's Soon as I get paid and the energy is just incredible.....Even more so than I was used to with the Figaro. Even though the sound is 'similar' (energy distribution low/mid/high), it's somehow cleaner and less tyring. With the EL3N, a more intimate sound comes in. Very seductive and spatial. Late night listening tubes. I'm confident this is a serious upgrade from the Figaro. But I will make a really fair comparison at one point - side by side same source etc and report on that.
  
 It was well worth the wait!


----------



## hpamdr

geetarman49 said:


> as a member of the geriatric community, i am easily confused, so please bear with me.  if the inset is supposed to represent the topside view of the larger lug-side connection scheme, then surely something is amiss because blue is adjacent to green in one instance and not in the other --- on the other hand, if the inset is representing the case of pin2 vice pin5, then it should not be presented as an inset image ... no?


 
  
 The picture is to helps who want to build an adapter. This schem "plug/Adapt" EL3N tube to Triode 1 of a 6SN7GT. Both tubes are different and does not have same pin layout this is why not all colors  goes in front the same position  from the back of the PA8 to the Octal Base.
  
 Sorry if i confused you, if you no not feel confortable to build it yourself, just order the ones advised by UT. Specialy the X.O. !


----------



## hpamdr

audict123 said:


> Hi Hpamdr,
> 
> I use the solid state out of the Xindac. The tube there is just a buffer, added in the pathway. I do have a collection of ECC88/6DJ8 family tubes (for my Pathos Logos) but don't even have a tube in right now. After upgrading the opamps with Audio Gd discrete opamps and raising the voltage over them I'm pretty happy with the dac. It's clearly better than the modern Ifi nano iDSD that I use with one of the Figaro 3322 amps. Still, upgraditis will hit me at some point


 

 Thx A. for the precision,
  
 You have a nice setup and for sure the Xindack product are really well build and some mods can make them astonishing... Not using the tube Buffer and with discrete output this is the best path to "Elise" (IMHO) as the Miss will orchestrate the tube Synergy. If upgraditis hit you in the same price range, try to listen the Metrum Acoustics Musette or Gustard X20


----------



## DecentLevi

OK FELLOW ELISERS, I HAVE MADE THE NEXT MAJOR MASSIVE DISCOVERY for the Elise... make sure your seated for this one...
  
Behold the *EL3N + QUAD 6J5* AS POWERS

  
 So here's the story: I was listening to what I considered one of my top 2 favorite out of 20-30 combinations so far (EL3N + 6AS7GA as powers), but was feeling something could be improved. So then I looked back and noticed @hpamdr's post that dual 6J5 can be used as powers... Silly me! I put these back on the shelf the past 2 days after determining that these don't perform well as drivers.
  
*Meet a WHOLE NEW WORLD!!!* Now with the quad 6J5's as powers, everything is changed! So here was my initial reaction:

First 3 minutes: total loss of words
On about the 4th minute I managed to spit out one word "*divine*!"
Next few minutes: listening to old tracks I've heard a hundred times, all in a totally new light!!
Looking around for sign of any hot chili peppers... dayamm there's gotta be some reason my eyes are watery!
Shut the amp off for comparison to the prior tubes... the first time I've ever become teary AFTER listening to something!!!
  
For more of a 'proper' review:
  
The quad 6J5 makes the GE 6AS7GA sound very congested, narrow soundstage, fake treble, poor instrument separation and overall like something is missing. And THAT is the description of what _was _an already overall EXCELLENT sound - one of the best I've ever tried... now meet quad 6J5 and it's a proper opposite: instrument separation, treble quality, and even dynamics grandiose enough to make you wonder what have you done to deserve this!!!
  
I absolutely swear this is the best I have ever heard my HD 650's perform on anything, period. And now I feel this is the *total *suicide of consumer-audio for me in any way. Normal iPod earbuds / Sony on-ears seem like microbes compared to this as Jupiter. 
  
It's blissful, divine, immaculate, and seems 6x better than than the GE.  My friends, it may sound hard to believe, but I'll tell you - this is one of those very strange realms of the hi-fi audio world where, although two power tubes may be technically similar voltage-wise, the difference is a complete 180'.
  
 And again this is thanks to Hpamdr for the idea of 6J5 as power instead of drivers, and @UntilThen for the whole EL3N idea.
  
 Even better, this is totally 'Humphrey'! Also this configuration does appear extremely similar to the quad 6BL7 setup, of which I have yet to try, so I cannot say whether or not this is better than quad 6BL7. But I'm confident enough that I have 0 desire to try those in it's place.
  
Also note that anybody interested in trying this:
 I'm using two Sylvania and two Selectron 6J5's (RCA rebranded). These are very cheap tubes but you need two dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters. Also these are single triode so will not work individually.
  
 PS- @connieflyer are you reading this too? Hang onto your 6J5's and adapters, and be sure to use them in the back.
  
  
 Now onto trying my quad bottle-shaped 6J5's in their place - and I'm nervous


----------



## DecentLevi

So I've swapped the staright-form 6J5 for quad coke bottle (2 Visseaux & 2 Zenith) 6J5's as powers, and it retains ALL of the sonic goodness of the above Sylvania / Selectron quad 6J5's, but now with added lushness and slightly warmer bass... seems a bit overkill. The above is a cleaner sound - still a total maverick!


----------



## geetarman49

hpamdr said:


> The picture is to helps who want to build an adapter. This schem "plug/Adapt" EL3N tube to Triode 1 of a 6SN7GT. Both tubes are different and does not have same pin layout this is why not all colors  goes in front the same position  from the back of the PA8 to the Octal Base.
> 
> Sorry if i confused you, if you no not feel confortable to build it yourself, just order the ones advised by UT. Specialy the X.O. !


 
  
 thanks for that ... looking again, it's obvious that my assumption that you were employing inset image convention (wherein a smaller image _of the same object_ is nestled against its larger image but from a different vantage point)  was way off base.  you hadn't intended that at all --- you were showing the two different tube sockets, whereas i was assuming two different views of a single socket ... doh!
  


decentlevi said:


> OK FELLOW ELISERS, I HAVE MADE THE NEXT MAJOR MASSIVE DISCOVERY for the Elise... make sure your seated for this one...
> 
> Behold the *EL3N + QUAD 6J5* AS POWERS
> 
> ...


 
 curious minds want to know, DL, .... where does this rank against sexto - el3n?
 (all these adapters are going to drive me back to ss, i swear ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..... nah ..)


----------



## DecentLevi

I haven't tried the six EL3N's yet but plan to, since I already have all 6 tubes, and need only the dual adapters
  
 But to me, the EL3N + quad striaght-form 6J5 as powers sounds much better than quad EL3N did


----------



## UntilThen

DL if you like that tone, you should try EL3N with 4 x 6SN7.


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## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> I haven't tried the six EL3N's yet but plan to, since I already have all 6 tubes, and need only the dual adapters
> 
> But to me, the EL3N + quad striaght-form 6J5 as powers sounds much better than quad EL3N did


 

 EL3N + single 6SN7 (Dual 6J5) is OK with HD650 but with HP-100 you have to listen not very loud 
  
 EL3N and a GEC 6AS7 shared betwwen both channel is also very good for me (with T1 and HD650) only two triode by channel.
  
 I'm also going to test Gustard X20 to see if i like It..


----------



## DecentLevi

Well all these blissful reports have been with Gustard X12 as the DAC behind the wheel and the X20 is the upgrade - it's guaranteed to please, so long as it's in good condition!
  
 I'm really loving the quad 6J5's in the power seat, but the thing is that it didn't get the endorsement from Feliks Audio (they recommended it in the driver's seat), and my Elise is running almost COLD. It used to get hot, especially the transformer, but with these in the power seat, the Elise is just barely warm... this makes me worried if I'm doing something wrong electrically or if this may eventually shorten its' lifespan?


----------



## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> I'm really loving the quad 6J5's in the power seat, but the thing is that it didn't get the endorsement from Feliks Audio (they recommended it in the driver's seat), and my Elise is running almost COLD. It used to get hot, especially the transformer, but with these in the power seat, the Elise is just barely warm... this makes me worried if I'm doing something wrong electrically or if this may eventually shorten its' lifespan?


 
  
 To me 6SN7/6J5 works on the required voltages and as you do not exceed heater recomandation this should be "green light" if you like 6J5 tubes you can also like 6N7G tubes as power..
  
 DL, with Elise, Feliks Audio provides you a real customer support (old school). If you need to have technical information, feel free to asks directly to Lukasz If he feel not confortable, Michals will respond to you directly and you will get a very advised answer.  (_you can after share his response_)


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> Well all these blissful reports have been with Gustard X12 as the DAC behind the wheel and the X20 is the upgrade - it's guaranteed to please, so long as it's in good condition!
> 
> I'm really loving the quad 6J5's in the power seat, but the thing is that it didn't get the endorsement from Feliks Audio (they recommended it in the driver's seat), and my Elise is running almost COLD. It used to get hot, especially the transformer, but with these in the power seat, the Elise is just barely warm... this makes me worried if I'm doing something wrong electrically or if this may eventually shorten its' lifespan?


 
  
 Hi DL....glad you're really loving your EL3N/quad 6J5 combo...WELL DONE!
  
 As @hpamdr and @UntilThen are suggesting, using 4x 6SN7s proper as powers might well suit more set-ups - but of course you would need different adapters, that are configured to use BOTH triodes of the 2 top tubes, as opposed to just the single of the 6J5s - as per the dual 6BL7 adapter...:    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-6SN7-6BL7-TO-6AS7-tube-adapter-/201511879930


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Careful we'll influence you to listen to Johnny be good.


 

I love cranking the volume and blasting the hendrix version from Berkeley


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL....glad you're really loving your EL3N/quad 6J5 combo...WELL DONE!
> 
> As @hpamdr and @UntilThen are suggesting, using 4x 6SN7s proper as powers might well suit more set-ups - but of course you would need different adapters, that are configured to use BOTH triodes of the 2 top tubes, as opposed to just the single of the 6J5s - as per the dual 6BL7 adapter...:    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-6SN7-6BL7-TO-6AS7-tube-adapter-/201511879930


 

 I did a bridge adapter doubling power sockets i hesitated a lot before doing it, but know i feel like dumb to not have done it before.
  
 If you have some tools to build it go for it it will open you a lot of tube roling oportunities. If not you can go for Mrs X stuff.
  
 For me Elise is 20cm wide and power tubes are spaced by 13.5cm.. This is a template i did with Galva to cut/drill aluminium/platstic in order to make my adapter... But first i did a mockup in paper  (http://www.f5bu.fr/wp/?page_id=13)
  
*This is probably an option that F.A. should sell !
 I would have paid for it if i can get one built like Elise !*


----------



## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> I did a bridge adapter doubling power sockets i hesitated a lot before doing it, but know i feel like dumb to not have done it before.
> 
> If you have some tools to build it go for it it will open you a lot of tube roling oportunities. If not you can go for Mrs X stuff.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo hpamdr - a nice, neat option...for those fairly handy at DIY and au fait with such things as pin wiring/routing/mirror images etc. lol!
  
 As for myself, I'm afraid I've done enough adapting now to last me a good _*long*_ while!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...and I still believe there are _*NO*_ tubes that are going to surpass my EL3N + GEC/Osrams into my Beyer T1s...for _me_, at least! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...so no more rolling for me - THANK GOODNESS!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....Sante!...


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I love cranking the volume and blasting the hendrix version from Berkeley


 
 Now we're talking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the real Johnny B. Goode


----------



## hpamdr

hypnos1 said:


> Yo hpamdr - a nice, neat option...for those fairly handy at DIY and au fait with such things as pin wiring/routing/mirror images etc. lol!
> 
> As for myself, I'm afraid I've done enough adapting now to last me a good _*long*_ while!!...
> 
> ...


 
  
 //// WARNING Technical content, use it only if you understand what it means !.. (I'm not a photo guy, but if interested i can send it in PM)
  
 I used as top plate a band of alluminium 3mm thick and 50mm 1 cut at 200mm.
 Wiring hint :
  
 I did strapped each socket into a single "triode"  : (for reusing single strapped penthode adapter)
  
 Left/Right Group :
  
 Left   Socket 1-4 2-5 3-6   to base 1,2,3 (mono conductor, copper sliver plated .8 with tubbing)
 Left   Socket 7 , 8            to base  7,8 and Right socket 7,8  (twisted wire copper)
  
 Right Socket 1-4 2-5 3-6   to base 4,5,6
 Right socket  7,8              to Left socket 7,8
  
 ---
  
 I did the adapter because i wanted to have more power with Fostex TH-500rp and try 6BL7GTA with E188CC and prefer to do it with plain solid wire than having pcb.
 I did some single EL3N adapter to test  6 EL3N.
 You can also test 4 6n6p ....
 ...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Well all these blissful reports have been with Gustard X12 as the DAC behind the wheel and the X20 is the upgrade - it's guaranteed to please, so long as it's in good condition!
> 
> I'm really loving the quad 6J5's in the power seat, but the thing is that it didn't get the endorsement from Feliks Audio (they recommended it in the driver's seat), and my Elise is running almost COLD. It used to get hot, especially the transformer, but with these in the power seat, the Elise is just barely warm... this makes me worried if I'm doing something wrong electrically or if this may eventually shorten its' lifespan?


 

 Running EL3N with 4x6SN7 is stone cold too. 6xEL3N is slightly warmer than that but still remains a barely warm after a whole day. I have no untoward effects running 6xEL3N over 400 hours.
  
 I reckon if you like EL3N with quad 6J5, you'll like EL3N with Mullard 6080 more. It's a very clear, distinct sound. You love electronic music and I think it's ideally suited for it.
  
 Visseaux 6N7G or C3G with 5998 is a highly energized sound. You'll be wow by it but like a sweet candy, it's best as dessert and not the daily main meal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Caveat - YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> As for UT's question: how does it compare with the Figaro 332S - the Figaro is no slouch... After tube rolling I settled on a Russian type and the LM Ericsson 403B. This amp is known for its synergy with the HD650 and it was the first headphone amp I had that really brought out the qualities of the HD650. The bass in this combo is really excellent. But I always felt that the mids and highs were a bit tiring for long listening (the least so with the LM). Now the Elise: the combinations that work well right now - like 5998 with either Visseaux 6N7G or C3Gs - are clearly in a different class. I just played Keb Mo's Soon as I get paid and the energy is just incredible.....Even more so than I was used to with the Figaro. Even though the sound is 'similar' (energy distribution low/mid/high), it's somehow cleaner and less tyring. With the EL3N, a more intimate sound comes in. Very seductive and spatial. Late night listening tubes. I'm confident this is a serious upgrade from the Figaro. But I will make a really fair comparison at one point - side by side same source etc and report on that.
> 
> It was well worth the wait!


 

 Thanks for the feedback Audict. I do think that Darkvoice amps are pretty good. Still like my DV 336se with Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears and Tung Sol 5998 but Elise is in a different class. Elise is fleet footed. like a gazelle with grace and polish. Fast transient response, dynamic sound and greater clarity. 
  
 I can see why you like Visseaux 6N7G or C3G with 5998 paired with HD650. Does brings out the best in the Senn. This will sound good on initial listen but your ears will get a pounding at the high frequencies with T1.
  
 I'm rocking these with HD650 now on electronic music. @DecentLevi I reckon you'll like this combo.


----------



## geetarman49

connieflyer said:


> If you don't mind my asking, where did you buy your T1's from?  I just received mine and the grill on the right ear cup at the rear is scratched.  I bought through amazon, but the company that supplied them was Buywise.  Just wondered if it was a "coincidence".


 

 normally, i would put this in a pm - but there are sufficient t1 users here that the info may be of use to others as well.
 i have been on the line with the service agency for beyer headphones north america -- parts for t1 gen 1 may become more difficult to acquire now that production is gen 2.
 for example, i need a right outer cup -- these have been on backorder for the past 3 mos. and no indication of when they'll ship.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> normally, i would put this in a pm - but there are sufficient t1 users here that the info may be of use to others as well.
> i have been on the line with the service agency for beyer headphones north america -- parts for t1 gen 1 may become more difficult to acquire now that production is gen 2.
> for example, i need a right outer cup -- these have been on backorder for the past 3 mos. and no indication of when they'll ship.


 

 It's hard to get the ear pads replacement for T1 Gen 1 now. http://www.beyerdynamic.de/shop/edt-t1v.html
  
 I really think they shouldn't have stop the T1 Gen 1 production as tonally I find it correct and perfect with Elise. Come on Beyer, bring back the T1 Gen1. 
  
 After all Sennheiser did retain the HD800 classic when they introduced the HD800S.


----------



## UntilThen

I've got this connieflyer. Listening to it now via Audirvana Plus.


----------



## connieflyer

Try a little Shelby


----------



## UntilThen

Plus these 2. They are my only HD Tracks so far .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Time to get more.


----------



## UntilThen

Both good videos and Shelby has a great voice.
  
 She has a lot of albums on Tidal.


----------



## connieflyer

Always liked Dave Brubeck, ever listened to Arn Anderson? Nice piano on T1's


----------



## UntilThen

How does the T1 sound on the Ember? Any difference to the Emotiva direct?
  
 Looks good  Emotiva xda-2


----------



## connieflyer

I let it play for about seven hours today, and it is sounding a little better. A little more bass note and separation is good also.  Liking it, looks like they are going to be hard to find, so I may just live with the scratches.  They are on the back of the right earcup, and not very visible, especially when I have them on! Does not hurt sound any, don't look abused, will try over the weekend.  On Emotiva, converting to 192 khz running thru Ember and JRiver, it sounds pretty good, I think the Elise, (acording to DL) will be much better.  I think maybe the 600  ohm rating on these cans, are pushing the Ember. Running dual 6j5's and this is pretty substantial.


----------



## UntilThen

Light scratches are nothing. Get some discount for it and keep it. 
  
 With Emotiva xda-2 into Elise > T1, I think you'll get very good sound. See the picture I just post above of the Emotiva XDA-2 DAC. Looks beautiful and running at 24/192k resolution for all inputs.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


>




Unbeatable. Brubeck is god, as is Desmond.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Unbeatable. Brubeck is god, as is Desmond.


 
 Nah I just think of him as a jazz musician. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure there's a Finnish equivalent.


----------



## Oskari

liber





untilthen said:


> Nah I just think of him as a jazz musician. :wink_face:  I'm sure there's a Finnish equivalent.




Not many of Brubeck's caliber…


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/PHdU5sHigYQ[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

How about we make Take Five more funky...


----------



## geetarman49

take five --- one of my all-time favorite compositions; a classic & ... ubiquitous.
  
 here's another fav ... but not so ubiquitous


----------



## DecentLevi

A little more tube rolling experience
  

*FDD20 Vs. EL3N*:
 EL3N has slightly weightier, fuller bass, yet both seem to have equally good dynamics. Soundstage seems slightly larger, and also has a bit more lushness. Instrument separation is uncany!
 FDD20 on the other hand retains most of the above yet slightly less lush, slightly smaller soundstage, and slightly brighter with less bass
  
 On my system however, the FDD20 has a buzz that makes it unlistenable. I'm using a power supply similar to this one for my dual FDD20's:

  
 In the process of trying to eliminate the hum, I've tried EMI-shielding. I completely covered the tubes with tin foil, then touched a thick wire from the foil to the RCA jack on the Elise, but this did absolutely nothing to quiet the buzz. I'm sure it's the power supply because after unplugging it, the humm completely disappeared. It wouldn't make sense to try a grounded power supply though, because my room is all 2-prong outlets. And since foil shielding didn't work, Faraday cages would also be out. Am I right in assuming the only thing left is to use some sort of ground wire out my window nailed into the ground? But for that I would probably need to get a 3-prong P/S in order to ground it.
  
 Overall I'm continuously amazed at the EL3N's ability to give a realistic life and layering to music! (as drivers at least). And after also trying at least 6 more combinations, the quad 6J5 straight-tube are still my favorite as powers. It's such a knockout performer, I would be surprised if two 6080's could outdo these four. I may go for those when I can afford it, but this 6J5 setup is highly recommended as powers.


----------



## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> A little more tube rolling experience
> 
> 
> *FDD20 Vs. EL3N*:
> ...


 
 First,  ensure that your Elise is plugged to a wall plug with ground.

 You must use a 12V power supply with ground or you have to somehow connect (-) to the ground of the Elise you can use an unused pre-ou cinch.
  
 The best is for me :
 A) use an external transformer with two 6V secondaries and link Zero(center tap) to ground. (a bit a DIY)  (for fdd20 : http://catalog.triadmagnetics.com/item/power-transformers/t-leaded-world-series-power-transformers-1/vpl12-800-1#)
 B) use a power supply with ground. (easy way see pic 2 / or one that tufn on Elise + external)
 C) link minus to ground (pre out gnd) with your current power adapter. (cheap and uggly way)
  
  

  
 -- edited
 If in your room you do not have wall plug with ground, you can try to use a multiple plug where you grind the ground. The ground to Elise will be done through the multiple adapter and power cables. In your case the most efficient is really to use a transformer, resign to use FDD20 or change house


----------



## UntilThen

DL you gave a good and accurate description of the tonal characteristics of the 2 drivers.

As advice by hpamdr, use a power supply with ground but as all your wall outlets are 2 pins I don't know how that's going to work. It time to move dowunder 

A hum free FDD20 with 5998 will rock your body. 

Anyway glad you're liking the combination of EL3N and quad 6J5. I have a feeling that tone is very similar to EL3N and quad 6SN7 which I've heard and like as well.

Looks like you're having great sound and your Elise is still not even the 100 hours mark.


----------



## oshipao

hypnos1 said:


> Hi oshipao...and WELCOME.
> 
> I think everyone here would say you'd be nuts _*not*_ to go for the Elise, lol!...by all accounts she outperfoms the BH Crack by a good margin - especially with our latest tubes in place...(but let's not get ahead of ourselves here...just yet, anyway! :wink_face: ). Congrats by the way, if you've managed to read _half_ this and the original threads!!
> 
> As others have intimated, it looks like the old 4 to 6 weeks is now more 8 to 10 I'm afraid - Easter hols and such, I suspect...(plus only the more experienced guys at Feliks-Audio are allowed anywhere near Elise, according to Lukasz...and there's no reason to doubt him IMHO!). But everyone will tell you she is well worth the wait




Thank you for that welcoming hypnos1! 

Lukasz replied the other day and told me that I should expect delivery in about 6-8 weeks, but I do not mind. As most of you Elise-owners think this is something really special I would wait half a year.


----------



## hypnos1

oshipao said:


> Thank you for that welcoming hypnos1!
> 
> Lukasz replied the other day and told me that I should expect delivery in about 6-8 weeks, but I do not mind. As most of you Elise-owners think this is something really special I would wait half a year.


 
  
 Half a year, oshipao?....certainly wouldn't want you to have to wait _*that*_ long, even if she is worth it, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But have no fear, she'll be seducing you way before that...(you know what they say about _anticipation!!!_





...).


----------



## nephilim

I just finished making my own adapters. If anybody is interested in a pair of xulingmrs "EL3N to 6SN7" and "FDD20 to 6SN7 (with wires for external heating)" adapters, please PM me.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> EL3N has slightly weightier, fuller bass, yet both seem to have equally good dynamics. Soundstage seems slightly larger, and also has a bit more lushness. Instrument separation is uncany!


 
  
 Wait till you try 6xEL3N then tell me what uncanny means. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Took me 8 hours to transfer applications, photos and music from my iMac to my Macbook Pro using migration assistant !!! Now I can run Audirvana Plus and JRiver Media Centre from the laptop and my whole music library is there.


----------



## UntilThen

These are tube combinations that works and sounds good for me on Elise.
  
 These are by no means exhaustive but will serve as a guide for anyone new and trying to venture beyond stock tubes. I'm only listing tubes which I consider good combinations. Others will have more diverse and better tubes. The sky's the limit but remember don't spend all on tubes. 
  
 For context, my source are iMac or PC with FLAC and Apple Lossless files played through Audirvana Plus or JRiver Media Centre. I use Tidal HiFi subscription too. My DAC is NAD d1050 and headphones are T1, HE560 and HD650.
  

*Driver**Power*EL3N4xEL3NEL3NTung Sol 5998EL3NTung Sol 7236EL3NChatham 6520 or 6AS7G  EL3NMullard 6080EL3N4x6SN7EL3N2x6SN7 and 2x6BL7EL3NGE 6AS7GAFDD20Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7G2031Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7GMazda, Visseaux or Fivre 6N7GTung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7GVisseaux or Fivre 6A6Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7GECC31Tung Sol 5998 or Chatham 6AS7GC3GTung Sol 5998C3G4x6BL77N7Tung Sol 5998Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome topTung Sol 5998EL3N2x6BL7 and 2x6N7
  
 All of these are safe to run without external power supply (except for FDD20) but these needs adapters:-
  
 EL3N
 FDD20
 ECC31
 6N7G
 6A6
 4x6SN7
 2x6SN7 and 2x6BL7
 4x6BL7
 7N7
 C3G
  
 You can order Philips EL3N tubes here. http://www.acoustic-dimension.com. Just email them.
  
 For EL3N to 6SN7 adapters, order from http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
 Happy listening !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Listening to this on DVD tonite with new T1's and was amazed at the synergy between the piano and violin solo's, especially the upper octave on the piano, for your consideration UNTILLTHEN...one of my favorites.
  

  
 He always ended his live shows ( at least all the times I had been to them) with this one.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Connieflyer. I have 2 of Yanni's CDs from a long time ago and it's great to play it again.


----------



## connieflyer

I have some of his earlier dad's as well. I heard this one and had to buy it, on sale of course. His newer concerts have many more digital inputs and the instrumentation is flawless. With T1s it is amazing, going to play it on main system today, wife wants to hear it as well.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> These are tube combinations that works and sounds good for me on Elise.
> 
> These are by no means exhaustive but will serve as a guide for anyone new and trying to venture beyond stock tubes. I'm only listing tubes which I consider good combinations. Others will have more diverse and better tubes. The sky's the limit but remember don't spend all on tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 booked!  thnx for repeating/updating this, UT.  i lost track of your earlier posting of this guide -- very handy.


----------



## chiggah

Hi, I am new to this and looking for an amp for my HD650. How well will the Elise match with the HD650, and how does it compare with the BH Crack + Speedball ?

 What tubes goes with the Elise and HD650 ?


----------



## UntilThen

chiggah said:


> Hi, I am new to this and looking for an amp for my HD650. How well will the Elise match with the HD650, and how does it compare with the BH Crack + Speedball ?
> 
> What tubes goes with the Elise and HD650 ?


 

 Good morning chiggah and welcome.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Let me start by saying that I love my HD650 with Elise and a selection of tubes. I can't believe HD650 to sound as good as it does with this tube amp.  I have T1 and HE560 headphones too and generally my go to headphone is the T1 but I get a lot of satisfaction using HD650 now.
  
 There is a review here somewhere from a forum member who have both the Crack with Speedball and Elise and he says that Elise is better. Here - post #220. Likewise @DecentLevi says that too.
  
 Tubes that goes with Elise and HD650, please see post #9291. Generally better varieties pf 6SN7 and 6AS7 / 6080 should sound very good with Elise + HD650.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> How about we make Take Five more funky...




Not bad at all! But not groovy enough...


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Not bad at all! But not groovy enough...


 

 Alright you'll have to wait while I compose my version of Take Five.


----------



## UntilThen

How about this? This is Logie award stuff.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> How about this? This is Logie award stuff.




Lol. What? Ever.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 Long time, I am a Miles Davis and John Coltrane nut, I have recently achieved *2500 *(about 6 TB) high res albums, and that is a great success. If you are not playing it in higher resolutions then you should start doing so. Here is my collection of Miles Davis, I have all his work. 
  
 Jazz sounds so good thought the HD 600, Elise and my DAC 
  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones hehe!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Miles Davis and John Coltrane may be good but I like some blues rock now.


----------



## connieflyer

Time to bring it done some.......... The Comb of the winds


----------



## pctazhp

OK, let's get serious about music. BOB WILLS IS STILL THE KING!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I'm listening to Dire Straits' Sultans of Swing on Tidal. On my new HD800S and your great help in selecting the right tubes for the S - jaw dropping!!! Somehow I've got to stop listening and get to sleep. I've got stuff I really need to do in the morning!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Who needs sleep when the sultans are swinging. Go the HD800S.... set it free and fire it up. So which tubes? I recommended several.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I have a few videos here to catch up on lol. Tubes I'm using now are C3G and 4x6SN7 with HD650. You hear that @DecentLevi ?


----------



## pctazhp

Fivre 6N7G/Tung Sol 7236 


untilthen said:


> Who needs sleep when the sultans are swinging. Go the HD800S.... set it free and fire it up. So which tubes? I recommended several....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, well if I don't get to sleep, I'm certainly not going to be swinging in the morning))) Fivre 6N7G/Tung Sol 7236. Will try the others too, but not tonight!!!.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I've really gotta hand it to all Elise'ers here - you have accurately described the sound of this marvel of an amp. It's total fidelity, endless bliss, and takes us closer to heaven on earth. Every comparison to my other amps at $600-, even some at $2400 seem laughable in comparison.
  
 I wanted to create a poll asking how many Elise'ers consider the Elise as their "prize posession", but it looks like you have to be the thread starter to do this. So @hypnos1 if you would like to do this, just click "edit thread" and you will see an option to add a poll. Maybe give us a few choices, if the Elise is considered our 1st, 2nd, or 3rd favorite thing in the world (excluding family of course)


----------



## UntilThen

Take care of it. You have to pass it to the next generation.


----------



## UntilThen

I cease not to be amazed at the different tones we can get out of Elise by rolling in different tubes. This setup uses all 6SN7 and sounds sweet, very clear and refine. Whilst it's lacking in soundstage and lushness compared to some of my favorite combos, this has pin point accuracy in the way music is presented to your ears.
  
 A different tone worth seeking out, especially since the cheaper 6SN7s are readily available still. It's driving my T1 and HD650 with very good results.
  
 Here I'm using Raytheon 7N7 as drivers and for powers I use a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top and a pair of stock drivers - Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue.
  
 Excuse the rather bad Samsung phone picture.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I've put in another 15-hour day of burning the Elise in. Both the Elise and my ears are happier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 'Could hardly imagine a better 'job' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 But before I 'clock out', here's some of the songs I thought sound downright stunning with good tubes in the Elise 
  
 Delphic - Doubt (2010)
 /img/vimeo_logo.png
  
 Led Zepplin - Stairway to Heaven

 Eagles - Disco Strangler
 
 (choose HD setting)


----------



## supersonic395

Speaking of the Led Zeppelin, have any of you heard the Hi res remasters through the Elise & T1? 

I have all the new remasters but on CD so flac 16bit 

Considering whether it's worth getting them all again in Hi res or maybe just a select few tracks


----------



## hpamdr

supersonic395 said:


> Speaking of the Led Zeppelin, have any of you heard the Hi res remasters through the Elise & T1?
> 
> I have all the new remasters but on CD so flac 16bit
> 
> Considering whether it's worth getting them all again in Hi res or maybe just a select few tracks


 

 I got Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti (2015 Deluxe) [24-96 HD FLAC] and it is really a wonderfull album  with Elise and X20.


----------



## Suuup

Bought a Hifiman HE500, will be interesting to see how it mates with the Elise. It's known to be very hard to drive. Worst case, my NFB11.32 can drive it.


----------



## supersonic395

hpamdr said:


> I got Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti (2015 Deluxe) [24-96 HD FLAC] and it is really a wonderfull album  with Elise and X20.




Where do you recommend getting the HD versions? Iirc amazon UK don't sell them


----------



## jerick70

supersonic395 said:


> Where do you recommend getting the HD versions? Iirc amazon UK don't sell them




You can get it at www.hdtracks.com


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Speaking of the Led Zeppelin, have any of you heard the Hi res remasters through the Elise & T1?
> 
> I have all the new remasters but on CD so flac 16bit
> 
> Considering whether it's worth getting them all again in Hi res or maybe just a select few tracks


 

 Why don't you just buy one track and compare yourself. I thought Led Zep sounded good enough on my one and only CD (Latter Days) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and on Tidal HiFi which is 16/44.1k. All of their albums are on Tidal.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Why don't you just buy one track and compare yourself. I thought Led Zep sounded good enough on my one and only CD (Latter Days)   and on Tidal HiFi which is 16/44.1k. All of their albums are on Tidal.




This is what I'll probably do...Achilles Last Stand (reference mix) and then let's see. I do really like the Rover and of course Stairway to heaven, but I think flac lossless from the CDs shall suffice  

Can never have enough Zeppelin though and Pink Floyd too


----------



## geetarman49

finally, i'm in  ... invoice 57.  briefly considered jerick's unit currently on fs/t forum --- that would have meant (near) instant gratification, but i've been communicating with Lukasz since december --- wouldn't be fair to change course now.
  
 next ... need to grab some adapters from mrs xu ling and from nephilim.
  
 as for the t1 ... have to admit i'm a bit on the fence on this (not the least of which i'm still ticked off about the as-described condition).  sonically, i admit it is better than any of the cans that i am currently using  ... & probably better than any i have previously auditioned at home --- but there is the siren call of the two staxen getting louder & louder


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I cease not to be amazed at the different tones we can get out of Elise by rolling in different tubes. This setup uses all 6SN7 and sounds sweet, very clear and refine. Whilst it's lacking in soundstage and lushness compared to some of my favorite combos, this has pin point accuracy in the way music is presented to your ears.
> 
> A different tone worth seeking out, especially since the cheaper 6SN7s are readily available still. It's driving my T1 and HD650 with very good results.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...I think you've covered enough bases now for EVERYONE to find their own magical combination...it's just a question of _finding_ it, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...at least there's been enough feedback to steer most folks in the rough direction - and there's a lot of fun to then be had in the "fine tuning"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Good work, UT...
  


decentlevi said:


> Well I've really gotta hand it to all Elise'ers here - you have accurately described the sound of this marvel of an amp. It's total fidelity, endless bliss, and takes us closer to heaven on earth. Every comparison to my other amps at $600-, even some at $2400 seem laughable in comparison.
> 
> I wanted to create a poll asking how many Elise'ers consider the Elise as their "prize posession", but it looks like you have to be the thread starter to do this. So @hypnos1 if you would like to do this, just click "edit thread" and you will see an option to add a poll. Maybe give us a few choices, if the Elise is considered our 1st, 2nd, or 3rd favorite thing in the world (excluding family of course)


 
  
 Hi DL...you finally realise all Elise'ers have EXTREMELY GOOD TASTE!....which now, of course, means YOU do too!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...join the club!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Not too sure just how many folks are into "polls", but am happy to oblige and see how it goes...(must dash now, though...)  BFN...


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Bought a Hifiman HE500, will be interesting to see how it mates with the Elise. It's known to be very hard to drive. Worst case, my NFB11.32 can drive it.


 

 HE500 is 38 ohms and 89 db whilst HE560 is 35 ohms and 90 db.
  
 Elise drives HE560 satisfactorily although I have to turn up the volume by 1 to 2 notch more than what I usually listen to. 
  
 Elise is ideally suited for high impedance dynamic headphones but as shared by quite a few here, it will drive planar magnetics too. Best way for me to put it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps... would be interesting to hear your feedback.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> HE500 is 38 ohms and 89 db whilst HE560 is 35 ohms and 90 db.
> 
> Elise drives HE560 satisfactorily although I have to turn up the volume by 1 to 2 notch more than what I usually listen to.
> 
> ...



Of course, I always share in here when I get new gear.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> This is what I'll probably do...Achilles Last Stand (reference mix) and then let's see. I do really like the Rover and of course Stairway to heaven, but I think flac lossless from the CDs shall suffice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Omg 'Whole Lotta Love' came on and it must be strange to be bobbing your head at 5:54am. Believe me it's sounding very good on T1 with all the tube goodness and juiciness. 
  
@geetarman49 I don't follow you about the 2 staxen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Believe me the T1 is made for Elise and you have to listen in that combination.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well UT...I think you've covered enough bases now for EVERYONE to find their own magical combination...it's just a question of _finding_ it, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey H1... I rather cover the waterfront like John Lee Hooker.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man I love this song. I think Blues are made for tube amps. There's just something there that is magical.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Omg 'Whole Lotta Love' came on and it must be strange to be bobbing your head at 5:54am. Believe me it's sounding very good on T1 with all the tube goodness and juiciness.
> 
> @geetarman49 I don't follow you about the 2 staxen.
> 
> ...


 

 i am currently running the t1 off my grace m920 dac/amp but still spinning cd ... it's not bad, but maybe i'm an hd800 guy at heart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 i am patient; i can wait for elise w/o nervous twitching ... i already have the toobs & the adapters will soon be on their way ... so ... it's just twiddling my thumbs ... but the soldering iron is nearby & i have two stax 230v stax amps sitting in the corner along with 407/507 and a sigma 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## UntilThen

A hd800 guy at heart? You're in the wrong camp !!! This is T1 territory. You'll get chased around the block !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Invoice 57 means connieflyer will be telling you all about Elise while you wait but I guess the grace m920 will do meanwhile. As for Stax, they are best reserve for 'Pink Panther' - I heard it on the Stax and it's great.


----------



## connieflyer

UT, do you use any VST's with JRiver?  I tried the Sonarworks free 21 day trial when I had my 650's and it made a small difference.  Used it with the 700's but they did not have an exact match, used the 800's and it made quite a difference.  Now that I have the T1's, they do have a VST for them, and (now mind you) with the Ember as amp, it has made a very nice difference in the sound of the T1's.  Looking at the graph, it smooths out the treble and brings the peak at 9K down and brings up the bass a little, mids are still fine, I believe this is a pretty good correction filter, lots of versatility. And the price to try it was right on the money free for 21 days.http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/


----------



## UntilThen

I have not explore any plug-ins in JRiver. As it is, it sounds really good. As good as Audirvana Plus on Mac. I for one do not have any issues with T1's treble with Elise. The tube sonics has made it sound organic, flesh out and bass even feels more impactful. Slight warm and lushness certainly makes the T1 sound signature just right for me.
  
 Your link of Sonarworks looks interesting. Will trial it out.


----------



## UntilThen

I just tweak JRiver effects settings to Jazz Club and virtual subwoofer 10" and I have subwoofer effects now on my T1.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> A hd800 guy at heart? You're in the wrong camp !!! This is T1 territory. You'll get chased around the block !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i'm wearing protection amulet ... i am safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  


connieflyer said:


> UT, do you use any VST's with JRiver?  I tried the Sonarworks free 21 day trial when I had my 650's and it made a small difference.  Used it with the 700's but they did not have an exact match, used the 800's and it made quite a difference.  Now that I have the T1's, they do have a VST for them, and (now mind you) with the Ember as amp, it has made a very nice difference in the sound of the T1's.  Looking at the graph, it smooths out the treble and brings the peak at 9K down and brings up the bass a little, mids are still fine, I believe this is a pretty good correction filter, lots of versatility. And the price to try it was right on the money free for 21 days.http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/


 
  
 thanks for the link, connieflyer ... i'll try this with jriver --- altho jriver tasks me ... _he tasks me_.
  
  


untilthen said:


> I just tweak JRiver effects settings to Jazz Club and virtual subwoofer 10" and I have subwoofer effects now on my T1.


 
  
 hmmm ... *this*, i'm not too sure about ... but i'll try it out.
 for now, i'll take leave for the next few days while i work on several income tax returns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> A hd800 guy at heart? You're in the wrong camp !!! This is T1 territory. You'll get chased around the block !!!


 
  
 Hey!!!! Am I just a potted plant here with my HD800???


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Hey!!!! Am I just a potted plant here with my HD800???


 

 Just paint T1 over it. Btw how does this Sonarworks works? Install it and I don't see the apps.


----------



## connieflyer

after install, open jriver go to Player, DSP Studio, left side bottom, manage plugins, select add plugin jriver, VST clik, it should open folder called VST highlight the dll and it will be present in program, er ah that is for windows, for Macs. probably a little different. Sonarworks main page has install info and video, FAQ's and what not.  Lot's to do with this, heard about it here on HEadfi on a different forum


----------



## connieflyer

I think this was the third record I bought, the first was Beep, Beep, and flying saucers part 2 for those that are that old....
  
 It was backed by Freedom, old Don gets with the piano about 2 minutes in...


----------



## connieflyer

Now you know I had a transition period from these two, the height of teenage rockers in the early sixties and late fifties ....

  
 and of course this.
  
  
 Not even stereo!!!  These were my first 45 rpm.s had been using 78 rpm's the best available then....


----------



## connieflyer

Okay if you don't like those, let's try for humor...
  
 Good night all.


----------



## mordy

Hi cf and Geetarman49,
  
 I think I know where that pink beep beep car went:
  
  




  
  
 The picture is from the Reynold's Auto Museum outside the Big E.


----------



## mordy

OK, OK, the cartoon shows a pink Cadillac, and the picture shoes a 1958 Buick, but still.....


----------



## Lord Raven

Many many congratulations  I am really happy for you and all the newcomers.. I hope you liked you T1 as well, I loved it and would be my end game some day soon 
  
 Cheers
 LR
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> finally, i'm in  ... invoice 57.  briefly considered jerick's unit currently on fs/t forum --- that would have meant (near) instant gratification, but i've been communicating with Lukasz since december --- wouldn't be fair to change course now.
> 
> next ... need to grab some adapters from mrs xu ling and from nephilim.
> 
> as for the t1 ... have to admit i'm a bit on the fence on this (not the least of which i'm still ticked off about the as-described condition).  sonically, i admit it is better than any of the cans that i am currently using  ... & probably better than any i have previously auditioned at home --- but there is the siren call of the two staxen getting louder & louder


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Here is another safe tube combination that does not need external heating. The power tubes are very affordable and the sound is excellent. Here is the recipe:
  
 Drivers: EL3N
  
 Powers:  2 x Bombardier 6BL7 by GE/TS
               2 x 6N7 RCA metal "High Hat" tubes ( I don't have other brands, but my guess is that all should sound good in this combination ).
 These tubes need the ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters that are available for $13/pair shipped:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Pair-ECC31-Replace-ECC33-6SN7-B65-Tube-Amplifier-Adapter-Suzier-E2-/281951474496?hash=item41a59e1340:g:e94AAOSwu4BV5ApU
  
 The 6N7 tubes are very inexpensive - many are available for a few bucks. A military version may be labeled VT-96.
  
  
  




  
 This tube combination has a really nice sound with great treble,  very sweet mid range and very good bass. The sound stage is a 3D wall of sound reminding me of the Mazda 6N7G.
  
 It should be pointed out that I tried various 6N7GT tubes (straight glass version of the Coke bottle ST 6N7G) with the BL tubes, with disappointing results. But these metal 6N7 really shine in this combination....
  
 As always, YMMV, but based on my personal experience I can recommend this combination. In addition, the synergy with my Yamaha MT-220 headphones is the best to date.
  
 Also, if you by accident drop one of the 6N7 tubes there is no glass that can break cause there ain't any. My RCA tubes have the date codes S2 and 278. S2 means 1942 (maybe 278 is 1942 as well?). That makes the S2 one of the oldest , if not the oldest tube that I have.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I am doing multiple replies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@connieflyer  Sonarworks works but doesn't works for me if that makes sense. Standard calibration for T1 tames my T1 !!! It's not longer a tiger but a kitten now and that is a big no no. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@mordy ah yes that combo of 6BL7 and 6N7 could possibly work because 6N7 is a brighter leaner tone to contra with the other tubes. Pretty much how I find 6BL7 and 6SN7 at the back works too. I'll spin in your suggestions later. I have a pair of WW2 Marconi 6N7.. ho ho ho.


----------



## Suuup

Received my HE500 this morning. Plugged it into Elise. I can't find any problems with it. Everything is completely silent. No distortion. I've heard a couple of songs now, and it seems to me it has enough power to drive these headphones. EDIT: Elise cannot power those. Really. Using 5998 power tubes and Fivre 6N7G driver tubes. 
  
  
 Oh, and something more arrived today. 

 Philips Miniwatt 6N7G. I'd like to think that I soon have a version of every European 6N7G tube. To my knowledge, I'm only missing the horned Fivre. 


 For some reason the getter is bent on all the tubes. Some upwards, som downwards. I have no idea how that could even happen?


----------



## UntilThen

Good to know that Elise drives the HE500 fine. That is a nice planar magnetic to get even if it's no longer in production.
  
 Philips Miniwatt 6N7G looks similar to the Mazda and Visseaux 6N7G. Have not seen one before.


----------



## Suuup

Ehm, sorry to say, but Elise cannot drive my HE500 at all.


----------



## UntilThen

Are you getting distortions and banshee screaming? Try 6SN7 with your 5998.

I was able to get decent sound at the meet listening to HE500 on my Elise with 7N7 and 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright UT's come out of retirement to test out mordy's suggestion. EL3N with 2x6BL7 and 2x6N7. 
  
 This has my tick of approval. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Pretty solid bass for those who likes it. What was remarkable was an absence of noise from this full on adapter setup. 
  
 With no music playing and volume to the max, there is total silence except for my breathing. I spin my usual favorite female vocals and yeah they sound sweet. Good tone. So there you go. Another unlikely combo that can sound good and doesn't cost you your full day's pay. This goes to my list on post #9291.
  
 Good find mordy. 
  

  
  
 A photo of the Marconi 6N7


----------



## UntilThen

Here's a video of all the tubes that I love with Elise.


----------



## mordy

Thank you, UT - you made my day!
  
 Suuup,
  
 Can the Russian battleships (6C33C) drive the HE500?


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Thank you, UT - you made my day!
> 
> Suuup,
> 
> Can the Russian battleships (6C33C) drive the HE500?


 
 I have not tried yet, but I'll be sure to try!
  
 For some reason, my HE500 sounds A LOT better, if I pull them out from my head. I don't understand why. Some suggested it's because it breaks the seal the pads create, which apparently increases midbass.


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. So great to see you post the 45 rpm's. I started with 78s, but most of my early music favorites were 45s. I loved the huge spindle (ok - no Freudian jokes!!!) and the 45s made wonderful flying saucers (pre Pluto Platters) and still sounded great.  Purple People Eater and Little Nash Rambler should be in some hall of fame somewhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 @mordy. I absolutely love the pink Buick )))
  
 @UntilThen. Just want to send you a friendly greeting from HD800Land))) *Legal notice:* I officially reserve the right to revert back to T1Land at any time and at my sole and absolute discretion.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. Just want to send you a friendly greeting from HD800Land))) *Legal notice:* I officially reserve the right to revert back to T1Land at any time and at my sole and absolute discretion.


 
 Just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't take me seriously there lol. The truth is I could live with either headphones. I have never consider them analytical tools. Listening to songs with them is just music to my ears. Clarity and details (and soundstage) are what makes the music more exciting for me. Above all, I love how vocals are presented through them. So deeply moving. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have to admit that I'm very fond of the T1 sound signature now. I've got to the stage where I don't lust after other headphones anymore. Not even after I've sample quite a lot of them at the recent Can Jam.
  
 I manage to order a pair of T1's ear pads from the Australian Beyer supplier. Part number EDT1V. AUD$106. Will take 4 to 6 weeks from Germany.


----------



## connieflyer

And I thought the Sennheiser pads where expensive, maybe I should keep both pair and sell one when pads need replacing


----------



## connieflyer

Are your pads velour or plether, I thought they were supposed to be some kind of leatheret,mine are velour


----------



## UntilThen

EDT1V is the same as original. It's velour.


----------



## connieflyer

For some reason I thought they were something else.  Thanks UT


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I have not tried yet, but I'll be sure to try!
> 
> For some reason, my HE500 sounds A LOT better, if I pull them out from my head. I don't understand why. Some suggested it's because it breaks the seal the pads create, which apparently increases midbass.


 
 So Suuup, does the HE500 sound better out of the head? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think they make a mistake calling it a headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Jokes aside, tell me what's wrong. Are you getting breakup? I've got HE560 on now with EL3N and 5998 tubes. Volume is at 11am and it's sounding very good. If I want it loud, I turn it up to 12noon and those planar magnetics starts to sing.


----------



## hypnos1

OK @DecentLevi...and all other Elise lovers - POLL activated...let us know your _*true*_ verdict, lol!.....CHEERS!!.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps.  Look up top!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> OK @DecentLevi...and all other Elise lovers - POLL activated...let us know your _*true*_ verdict, lol!.....CHEERS!!.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Isn't there a category for ....... 'I can't live without it - I'll go into serious withdrawal symptoms !!!'  and  'It's more important than my mircowave'.
  
 ... and 'How will I get my 5am fix without it !!!! '


----------



## connieflyer

Yes and no category for those of us still waiting, boo hoo!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Isn't there a category for ....... 'I can't live without it - I'll go into serious withdrawal symptoms !!!'  and  'It's more important than my mircowave'.
> 
> ... and 'How will I get my 5am fix without it !!!! '


 
  
 Hey UT...gotta tread carefully here - mustn't upset domestic harmony _too_ much, lol!!


----------



## geetarman49

connieflyer said:


> Now you know I had a transition period from these two, the height of teenage rockers in the early sixties and late fifties ....
> 
> 
> and of course this ...
> ...




  
 are you sure you aren't listening to our local radio station?  baba (ckua) played this yesterday ... fair dinkum.
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi cf and Geetarman49,
> 
> I think I know where that pink beep beep car went:
> 
> ...


 
 this place is roughly hr and 45min drive from north ed, where i live.  been meaning to visit for years but never quite made it.
  


lord raven said:


>


 
 thanks, Naveed.   i have to say that while the t1 is okay with the m920, i really expect more ... hoping that comes with the elise.
 on the other hand, could be just my ears ... you know the saying about making a silk purse from a sow's ear.  with age comes not beauty nor wisdom, but detriments.
 ears fail, eyes fail ... something else fails too ... hahaa.  just had two rounds of laser treatment on my eyes this past month & the doc has prescribed some magic pills for the other problem.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Yes and no category for those of us still waiting, boo hoo!


 
  
 How's about a bit of "Virtual Reality", connie?...gotta keep up with the times LOL!!...or a spot of clairvoyance?!!


----------



## UntilThen

I voted ... more important than my carbon fibre Specialized racing bike and my all singing and dancing 12" Morel Ultimo subwoofer.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I voted ... more important than my carbon fibre Specialized racing bike and my all singing and dancing 12" Morel Ultimo subwoofer.


 
  
 Dang...knew I'd missed out the most important category of all!!


----------



## vince741

I guess I'll fast forward to this page, I've missed too much post, lol.
  
 I'm intrigued by the person who voted 5th. (I voted 3rd and digesting ).
  
 e/ Oh wait, we're not talking amp wise my bad.


----------



## UntilThen

Hey you can't have 2 votes. I almost vote still digesting too.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Just kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 that seems like hw robbery ... or implementation of double luxury tax.
 i was quoted $35 usd per pair.   i guess i should double-check with north american service agency about this.


----------



## vince741

untilthen said:


> Hey you can't have 2 votes.


 
 "This is a *multiple choice* poll"


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> that seems like hw robbery ... or implementation of double luxury tax.
> i was quoted $35 usd per pair.   i guess i should double-check with north american service agency about this.


 
 I know. I'll write to beyerdynamics. No ear pads should cost $106. How many vmonks can I get with that @Lorspeaker ?


----------



## hypnos1

vince741 said:


> "This is a *multiple choice* poll"


 
  
 Too right, stranger!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> I know. I'll write to beyerdynamics. No ear pads should cost $106. How many vmonks can I get with that @Lorspeaker ?


 

 even if they were shipped direct to you via express from deutschland, they shouldn't cost this much ... after all, it's just vinyl & velour + foam padding from what i can see.
 & if that's what they insist, then see if you can order from usa.  pm me if you need assistance on this.
  
 on the other hand, the t1 does not have an easily replaceable headband like the 880s, 990s, etc.  you have to buy the subassembly which includes the steelband(s) & that part does indeed cost over $100 and you must also buy a special toolset for breaking (yes, breaking) the plastic retainer for the slider.  long story short --- keep your headband in good condition by appying premium quality leather cleaner and conditioner.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> ... Philips Miniwatt 6N7G. I'd like to think that I soon have a version of every European 6N7G tube. To my knowledge, I'm only missing the horned Fivre.
> 
> 
> For some reason the getter is bent on all the tubes. Some upwards, som downwards. I have no idea how that could even happen?


 
 bent getters are (typically) factory attributes --- some might call this deviation from standard production, but i (would like to) think that it is more likely purposeful orientation on the part of the particular toobmaker.
  


untilthen said:


> Are you getting distortions and banshee screaming? Try 6SN7 with your 5998.
> 
> ...


 
 'banshee' is one of my fav tv series ... as violent & bloody as GoT ever was ... maybe more so.


----------



## geetarman49

crap ... i ordered mine too soon ... should have waited until this morning.


----------



## Lorspeaker

21 NEWwwww MonkPLUS......at $5 each


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> 21 NEWwwww MonkPLUS......at $5 each


 

 Hmmmm ..... but I reckon I'll have this instead. The vocals will melt your ears. Guaranteed !!!
  
 Having a blast in the last 2 hours. Never thought I would say this but I love HE560 with Elise. See where the volume is at? That's my sweet spot. Any sweeter and your in trouble.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> So Suuup, does the HE500 sound better out of the head?   I think they make a mistake calling it a headphone.
> 
> Jokes aside, tell me what's wrong. Are you getting breakup? I've got HE560 on now with EL3N and 5998 tubes. Volume is at 11am and it's sounding very good. If I want it loud, I turn it up to 12noon and those planar magnetics starts to sing.



For some reason, the sound is better if I pull them out, so they hover over my ear. I've inserted a fat 6.25mm to 3.5mm adapter between the pads and my skin, to pull the cups out a bit. Sound is much better now. 

I wouldn't say the HE500 sound is better. It's different. Handles some music better than T1, some not so much. Overall, I think it's a good complement to my T1. 

I actually think Elise CAN drive them, and that it was just a bad tube. Will do more testing.


----------



## UntilThen

HE500 and T1 are quite contrasting headphones and will compliment each other.
  
 It's good to know that Elise can drive the HE500. It's more inefficient than the HE560.
  
 Primary difference between HE560 and T1 is the soundstage. T1 having a wider soundstage and HE560 seems more focussed. T1 is also brighter and more detail. HE560 is warmer and fuller by comparison and have a more pronounced mid bass. That is what I hear when I swap the 2 headphones.
  
 Overall I prefer the T1 presentation but I do love HE560 for vocals. These 2 headphones sounds so much different with Elise compared to my previous JDS O2+ODAC. Elise just brings the tube warm and lushness that contra very well with these 2 bright headphones and the result is a most enjoyable tone.
  
 Then I put on HD650 and it's even warmer and fuller tone. Mid and bass dominates in a good way. Treble is more recessed but sufficient to make the music interesting and euphonic. I am more than happy with these 3 headphones and they do get rotated often.


----------



## connieflyer

Ut just found this on Beyers US site.   http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/ohrmuschelsatz-34.html...Ear cushions black velour for for DT 531, 811, 880, 911, 931, 990 and T1 headphones.......http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-EDT990VB-Headphone-Pads-Black/dp/B008XEYT6G/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=audio-video-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1460508118&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=beyerdynamic+EDT1V...$39.00 a pair.


----------



## UntilThen

cf that is the EDT990VB which is not the right ear pad for T1. In the past, it's been used for T1 but it's meant for DT990. The correct part for T1 is EDT1V. 
  
 I think there will be a difference in tone with the wrong pads.


----------



## connieflyer

I will check on that. Just going by description.  Here's something to stir your soul or relax it, depends on which way you like the sound. 
  
 Catrin Finch, looks a little wild, but look at her eyes,and see the soul put on the strings.


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. We can't leave this one out:


----------



## geetarman49

connieflyer said:


> Ut just found this on Beyers US site.   http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/ohrmuschelsatz-34.html...Ear cushions black velour for for DT 531, 811, 880, 911, 931, 990 and T1 headphones.......http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-EDT990VB-Headphone-Pads-Black/dp/B008XEYT6G/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=audio-video-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1460508118&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=beyerdynamic+EDT1V...$39.00 a pair.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> cf that is the EDT990VB which is not the right ear pad for T1. In the past, it's been used for T1 but it's meant for DT990. The correct part for T1 is EDT1V.
> 
> I think there will be a difference in tone with the wrong pads.


 

 i have already submitted an inquiry to beyer's u.s. service agent about the edt1v and whether it is any different (apart from the nomenclature).


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> cf that is the EDT990VB which is not the right ear pad for T1. In the past, it's been used for T1 but it's meant for DT990. The correct part for T1 is EDT1V.
> 
> I think there will be a difference in tone with the wrong pads.


 

 it looks like BOTH are correct --- if you had early version of t1 g1, then edt990vb was the authorized part replacement ---- cf. http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/media//datenblaetter/T1_DB_E_A2.pdf
  
 if you had later production (still g1), then edt1v became the correct part .... http://www.beyerdynamic.de/shop/edt-t1v.html
  
 pricewise 25,89eu vs 39eu
  
 .... maybe you guys are using the edt1v pads & i've got the 990vb pads ... maybe that's why i'm not feelin' the luv ... yeah, gotta be ..


----------



## UntilThen

I've gone ahead and ordered from the Aussie beyer supplier as my pads are a bit thinner than what I think new ones are. There goes my 21 Vmonk plus.  
  
 I was told EDT1V is the correct part for T1 G1 but would be interesting to hear what the American supplier says.
  
 Can you post a picture of the ear pads. I want to see how thick new ones are.


----------



## geetarman49

you talkin' to me?!
  
 the pads on my (older) t1 don't seem that new to me & my new ones won't be shipped until the replacement cup arrives (3 months & counting).
 are the g2 pads different?
  
 okay ... i just checked the stock # (915823) given by the u.s. beyer service agent ... this *is* indeed edt1v and the price is $35/pr.


----------



## UntilThen

G2 pads are different. $35 is good price.


----------



## DecentLevi

Awesome poll, H1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I voted the Elise at #2 - the Elise is priceless to me, but nothing could ever take the place of something ultra special I have in storage.
  
 BTW, thanks for the suggestions for fixing my FDD20's and other tubes to try, but I've been too backed up to think lately and need to save first. 
  
 I'm still enjoying the Elise non-stop when at home - it's still running stone cold with these quad tubes in the back so I hope this doesn't burn something out soon.


----------



## Suuup

200$ for my HE500 and 100$ for my AGD NFB-11.32. That's a 300$ combo, and it has everything one needs. I still find tubes very fun though, so I'm happy to have my Elise. The music I listen to the most (at least for the past ½ year) the T1 does a lot better than the HE500. Stuff like modern rock though, the HE500 handles much better. I can't decide if I prefer HE500 on tubes or SS. Guess I'll decide at some point. T1 definitely belongs on tubes. T1 + Elise is still the crème de la crème.
  
  
 This is where T1 wins. 

  
  
 This is where HE500 wins:

  
 I listen mostly to the former one.


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> Awesome poll, H1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you approve, DL...interesting results already, lol! Apart from the encouraging and _slightly_ surprising votes for #1, given the goodies most folks have these days!... (my vote was a _very _close thing, given my love for the Volvo, but Elise snatched it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), what cheered me also was_ zero_ for "heated discussion....". Now either the relevant households so far are wonderfully understanding/forgiving/patient towards their Elise owners, _*or*_ said owners are _*so*_ enamoured of the little marvel that _*nothing*_ comes between them...wonder which it is, lol?!!...(perhaps this should have been yet another category I've missed out!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Glad also you're still enjoying Elise non-stop...and glad you too @Suuup still hold her in high esteem!
  
 Well, DL....your cool running should mean longer tube life, I should have thought. And less heat in general _should_ also be kinder to the rest of the amp. It would be interesting to hear from anyone more knowledgeable in electronics whether such obvious reduced _current_, and therefore less heat, alters to any great extent _voltages_ through resistors and capacitors and if so, what effects - if any - might ensue...(probably talking out my *ss here, though!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). But so long as there are no obvious _negative_ changes in sound, presumably all should be well...??...(where are the experts, LOL?!)...CHEERS!...


----------



## aqsw

#4 for me. I have #1 and #2 in my garage. #3(DAC)sits right next to the Elise , and #5 (Ether Cs) sit next to also.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 About operating temperatures I think that everybody will agree that too hot is not good and will lessen the life of components. On the other hand, I have noticed tubes that did not perform well when not allowed to heat up enough through the use of fans.
  
 IMHO slightly warm to moderately warm seems like a safe bet in operating temperature range. With tubes like the EL3N the amp barely warms up, and with tubes like the 6080/6BL7 the amp can get hot.
  
 The ambient temperature of the room plays a big role. Normally I do not need fan cooling, but with hot running tubes and very hot weather the amp may feel quite hot and I will turn on the fan.


----------



## Lord Raven

Biggest mistake of my life, thought to share. I was servicing my tweeters and damaged one. The pair was placed together with their protective shield on, the one pulled the other and damaged the dome. I am so heart broken. Glad I just bought a replacement. Don't even ask how much it costs. It costs TWO Elise for a single tweeter.
  
 And someone just offered me to buy my Elise, out of no where. 
  
 Wish me luck guys, bad time in my audio life!


----------



## UntilThen

Dang you guys compared your Elise to your cars. I didn't 
  
 2 years ago I would be driving around in my Hondas, enjoying the music but now I rather strap on my headphone. The cars are simply to get me to where I need to go. I did have a blast from the sound system yesterday when I went for a drive and turn up the volume. 
  
 That's sad to hear LR. Tweeters are not for servicing. Why would you sell Elise. How are you going to enjoy your 6gb of DSD files. What would your HD600 do without Elise. 
  
 Suuup I think you got an incredible deal on Audio Gd NFB11.32 and HE500. These days with more new headphones out on the market, the old favorites are good value if you can snatch them at a good price and if they are still in good condition.
  
 As for me, I would have been happy with T1 and HD650 (and HE560 ) with Elise. 5 months on and I'm still listening to music with this setup almost daily. I'm on a trip to Canberra today though and will get some subwoofer love.
  
 #1 is leading....  what irony


----------



## UntilThen

@Oskari  I found you another version of Take Five.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> About operating temperatures I think that everybody will agree that too hot is not good and will lessen the life of components. On the other hand, I have noticed tubes that did not perform well when not allowed to heat up enough through the use of fans.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed m..."nicely warm" seems the most attractive option, lol!...depending on ambient temp. of course... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tubes that run _hot_ as a norm, but are then over-cooled would certainly appear to perform below par. Presumably, tubes that seem to run _cool _natively will not suffer this drop in performance....ears will surely be the best indicator here, lol!!
  
 What continues to intrigue me with our tube rolling away from original configuration is - as I touched on in my post - 'operating points' must be getting thrown way off course, with consequences that are totally beyond our amateur status...and in fact anyone, bar prolonged examination on a test bed by the pros. And so our 'trial and error' must inherently always be somewhat of a risk...which again is why I personally am happier not to stray _too_ far away from said original configuration LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That was sad news indeed @Lord Raven..._doubly_ painful when those kinds of $$$$$ are involved....commiserations!!


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Biggest mistake of my life, thought to share. I was servicing my tweeters and damaged one. The pair was placed together with their protective shield on, the one pulled the other and damaged the dome. I am so heart broken. Glad I just bought a replacement. Don't even ask how much it costs. It costs TWO Elise for a single tweeter.
> 
> And someone just offered me to buy my Elise, out of no where.
> 
> Wish me luck guys, bad time in my audio life!


 

 very sorry to hear this, LR.
 the magnetic field strength of many tweeters is so great that they will literally pull steel tools and fasteners into them & as you have found out, pulling themselves together into destruction.
 spkr builders/service people get to know this through experience and take precautions incl. keeping drivers in their boxes as long as possible.
 the other aspect is the increasing use of exotic materials in the dome construction - beryllium, diamond ... these domes can be exceedingly fragile.  in the early days of ceramic tweeters, a lot of them were destroyed because people would invariably be drawn to touch them (a single touch meant failure) ... must be some psychological pull like petting a cat ... lol.
  
 you should check with the manufacturer to see if the dome (i assume that is what is damaged) can be replaced at reasonable cost.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @Oskari
> I found you another version of Take Five.




As lovely as that was.

Where is the beef?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Where is the beef?


 
 You want beef you get beef. I'm hungry now.


----------



## WB2016

lord raven said:


> Biggest mistake of my life, thought to share. I was servicing my tweeters and damaged one. The pair was placed together with their protective shield on, the one pulled the other and damaged the dome. I am so heart broken. Glad I just bought a replacement. Don't even ask how much it costs. It costs TWO Elise for a single tweeter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Sorry to hear. Could have been the magnets as mentioned by UT.

Check with the manufacturers if they will let you refurb the ones you have or give you a discount. When I was installing with high end installers things happened more often than I care to admit. Especially the dreaded cleaning ladies.... moving to vacuum under speakers or bump into them with vacuums or wipe electronics wet... Or construction guys, or the owners and occassionally someone from the team. Those protectors can be deceiving and really only help with little kids and pets to a little extent for the mids and bass. 

The horror for installers are that these items are custom built and can take months until they are rebuilt and you are paid in the end, so you really try everything to avoid issues and give yourself enough palying room.

We were insured so that is also different. One of the worst things that happened I can talk about was a client upgrading a unit he bought in the States without telling us and just switching the Furutech plug. Well there is a difference between 220 and 110 V. We ended up paying for it and only months later did the manufacturer inform us what happened... Caused more than 20K GBP of damage initially and could have caused a fire in a house that would have bankrupted my boss many times over, luckily the distributor could fix most of it and admitted the fuse should of handled the worst. The client felt guilty but we never said anything and in the end he recommended us strongly and later fessed up on his own. Turned out to be funny in the end, kind of, but just one dip switch could have cost an unforseeable amount of damage.

That smaller stuff does happen a lot in high end, especially if people have kids, pets and parties. Oh Champagne the enemy of High End. Both watermarks on speakers and spuilt bubbly. Oh and drunk people tripping over wires...

 The worst however is the feeling you fXXXed things up yourself though. Especially when you try your hardest to be careful beyond belief. 
However check with the manufacturer, many will be forthcoming and maybe feel your pain and are especially good at giving discounts for upgrades. Its much easier if you have a bit of a personal connection to where you bought it, e.g. locally than amazon.

We had some good experience buying speaker components used, also from manufacturers, because of blown speaker parts. This happens quite easily if the connectors are loose, that popping will kill speakers really fast with big amps. Or again those dreaded cleaning ladies unplug things and replugging them when they are turned on....

With new replacements you have the issue that one part is new and the other has thousands of hours on it. So buying used, if you know the quality is often the better idea and cheaper. Tweeters last a long time but will need to break in as well (of course depending on system).

Thought I would share some stories to cheer you up. That stuff sucks.

PS If it is any consolidation I still have not gotten my Elise from Feliks due to lack of some parts. Should be finished next week though Invoice 46 for those of you curious what is happening. Some components had to be reordered.

Take care
WBiFi Retro Stereo50


----------



## UntilThen

So you're invoice 46. Are your tubes and Grados ready and primed?


----------



## WB2016

Yup among other things. There is a nice spot collecting dust on my desk in the office. Have tubes, adapters, good powercords and rca cables taunting me for weeks now on my desk. Tubes are ready, although some (C3gs) are stuck in customs. German customs are not German efficient to say the least... Don't understand why they cannot invoice for small sums and send them instead of having to pick up in person... 

As you can expect it is the wrong order of things not having the essential component to do anything and waiting with the extras. Well there are worse things, such as Rt's tweeters. But as you say in German speaking areas "Shared suffering is halved suffering" so hopefully this is cheering up RT a tiny bit. Listening with my FiioX5, which is OK.

Anyhow, looking for a better DAC, likely a Audio GD DAC19 and have some other headphones I will audition. Has there been any news on a new reference series for Beyerdynamics exceeding the T1? Heard that there was one planned for release which will hopefully bring down the price of the T1.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> So you're invoice 46. Are your tubes and Grados ready and primed?



 


Ah forgot to mention, had a whole bunch of gear borrowed from people when the Elise was supposed to arrive, including HE560, Metrum Dac, etc. That needed to go back this week. Actually quite funny, but maybe I need to just appreciate teh Elise as it is for a while.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

Wow quite a few #1s in that pole. I canÄt vote yet, waiting until next week hopefully, but seriously I cannot imagine a single piece of Audio gear being #1, all the audio equipment togehter including sources ranged from 3 to maybe 10 depending on the kit and LPs I had at home at the time of my life. But that is because of cars, instruments, cameras, hunting equipment, etc. That's probably why I went for the Elise because it seemed reasonable for people who tend to be quite passionate about being passionate 

I would be much more curious to do a pole on what headphone combos, what is favorite tube combo for type of music, what DAC or similar, but I understand that its supposed to be cute. Or are people just more obsessive Or, wait will I finally get hooked completely....

But as a suggestion maybe some more practical experience poles would be a good idea.

Cheers
WB


----------



## connieflyer

Wondered what the holdup was with the Elise, number 50 here, after the other two arrived this past week, 44-45 I was hoping for mine in 1-2 weeks to get it before surgery, but looking dim now. I would have to question how you run out of parts when you have orders in hand, most paid ahead, someone dropped the ball.  I was in supply, military and civilian, and that is not a good thing for a company to be doing. Starting to get antsy now.  Have all these adapters and tubes at the ready and now where to use them if I don't get mine. Told myself over and over, wait until you have unit in hand.  I know better, this is an abject lesson, that will not be repeated at least by me.


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> Wondered what the holdup was with the Elise, number 50 here, after the other two arrived this past week, 44-45 I was hoping for mine in 1-2 weeks to get it before surgery, but looking dim now. I would have to question how you run out of parts when you have orders in hand, most paid ahead, someone dropped the ball.  I was in supply, military and civilian, and that is not a good thing for a company to be doing. Starting to get antsy now.  Have all these adapters and tubes at the ready and now where to use them if I don't get mine. Told myself over and over, wait until you have unit in hand.  I know better, this is an abject lesson, that will not be repeated at least by me.




Good luck on your surgery CF! The wait can seem forever, but I can honestly say it is well worth it. I waited much longer for my Liquid Carbon, and it doesn't touch the Elise.
Patience, my friend.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for your thoughts on waiting and the surgery, just another knee replacement, but it is still surgery and you have to wonder.  At least that is the last knee, until the first replacement gives out!


----------



## UntilThen

cf you'll be fine. You'll be much better after the sugery.

I echo aqsw thoughts. Just a little while longer and you'll have Elise and you've everything ready. It'll be worth it.


----------



## connieflyer

Well, UT as much as I like the T1's I think they are going back.  After they are in use for awhile, around 60-80 Hz the bass in the left earcup the sound just in these low area's are a muddy buzzing sound.  Thought they might be the recordings so pulled out the Senn 700's and it is not there, swapped the T1's back in and the distortion is still there.  I was really liking them, they are not as light or as comfortable as the Senn's but the sound was very refined, except for the distortion.  Funny it is not there at first listen, only after they have been used for awhile. Oh well, can still return for refund.  Thanks for the recommendation. It was fun while it lasted.


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Glad you approve, DL...interesting results already, lol! Apart from the encouraging and _slightly_ surprising votes for #1, given the goodies most folks have these days!... (my vote was a _very _close thing, *given my love for the Volvo, but Elise snatched it*!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is so worth quoting again! You my friend, seem to be a wizard with words. I'll bet you could have made quite a good psychologist (and I'm no stranger to those LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## UntilThen

Cf no worries. Remember what I say. Your ears are the best judge. In any case, there are quite a lot of people who like their HD700 and I know it will sound it's best with Elise. You have no idea what awaits you.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I just saw Batman vs. Superman in XD Audio - oddly enough I was still longing for the sound of the Elise. Afterwards, watching an HD trailer of the movie it seems the Elise sound is lusher and maybe slightly more sweet & crisp... but the impact and sub-bass still go to the theatre sound system. I'm not sayin' the Elise sounds better than a professional theatre, just different and each system has their own pro's
  
 
  
 EDIT: Of course the results are highly dependent on the source tubes and headphones used.


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> PS If it is any consolidation I still have not gotten my Elise from Feliks due to lack of some parts. Should be finished next week though Invoice 46 for those of you curious what is happening. Some components had to be reordered.
> 
> Take care
> WBiFi Retro Stereo50


 
  
 Thanks for your update WB...and hope you don't have too much longer to wait  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  


connieflyer said:


> Wondered what the holdup was with the Elise, number 50 here, after the other two arrived this past week, 44-45 I was hoping for mine in 1-2 weeks to get it before surgery, but looking dim now. I would have to question how you run out of parts when you have orders in hand, most paid ahead, someone dropped the ball.  I was in supply, military and civilian, and that is not a good thing for a company to be doing. Starting to get antsy now.  Have all these adapters and tubes at the ready and now where to use them if I don't get mine. Told myself over and over, wait until you have unit in hand.  I know better, this is an abject lesson, that will not be repeated at least by me.


 
  
 All the best for your surgery connie...soon be hopping about as good as the Easter bunny, eh?!...hope so!!
  
 WB's comment "some components had to be reordered" sounds to me like a possible QC rejection issue?...happens, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Let's hope it's sorted OK...I don't doubt the Feliks guys will pull out all the stops to try and catch up, lol...(Elise's eventual arrival should prove a very welcome addition to the recuperation process! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> This is so worth quoting again! You my friend, seem to be a wizard with words. I'll bet you could have made quite a good psychologist (and I'm no stranger to those LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your kind words DL. Can't claim to be a Clinical Psychologist alas, but I do need a few words as a Hypnotherapist lol!


----------



## connieflyer

Apparently the parts they are waiting are the custom made chasis, they have been struggling to keep up.


----------



## UntilThen

@Audict123 did the tube heat shrinking on the adapters work when you power up Elise? 
  
 I'm not too concerned with the white adapters. They look alright to me.


----------



## connieflyer

Lukasz replied about 2-3 more weeks for mine.  They have to do a better job of estimating, this is getting on my nerves, I don't like companies to give you a low ball estimate of delivery, knowing 6-8 weeks is not going to happen, and then pushing back delivery even further.  I understand it is a small family run company, but if they expect to play on the global market, they have to be more realistic.  If I would have been told 3 months right off the bat, I still would have ordered it as I "believe" it to be a good product. I don't want them to take short cuts to improve delivery times, just be more honest on how long it will take.  The product should speak for itself. Contunual delays, marks a product down.  Others that read this forum that may have been thing 6-8 weeks is not too bad a time to wait, but then see the actual delivery time, may start to doubt the company.  I will wait until it gets here to hype this product any further. No more recommendations until I get the product and can run my own testing.  Good luck to you all


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Lukasz replied about 2-3 more weeks for mine.  They have to do a better job of estimating, this is getting on my nerves, I don't like companies to give you a low ball estimate of delivery, knowing 6-8 weeks is not going to happen, and then pushing back delivery even further.  I understand it is a small family run company, but if they expect to play on the global market, they have to be more realistic.  If I would have been told 3 months right off the bat, I still would have ordered it as I "believe" it to be a good product. I don't want them to take short cuts to improve delivery times, just be more honest on how long it will take.  The product should speak for itself. Contunual delays, marks a product down.  Others that read this forum that may have been thing 6-8 weeks is not too bad a time to wait, but then see the actual delivery time, may start to doubt the company.  I will wait until it gets here to hype this product any further. No more recommendations until I get the product and can run my own testing.  Good luck to you all


 
 Personally, I think that it is pretty unfair to attack Feliks Audio's integrity ("just be more honest")  merely because it's taking a little longer than expected. Just my personal opinion.


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for your update WB...and hope you don't have too much longer to wait
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I am actually quite patient as long as I don'T sit at my desk A bit unfortunate with some of the gear I managed to borrow and now need to return before I get the Elise, but I can reborrow the gear and the Elise will be burned in by the time.

Delays:

Yeah from what I understand there was a delay, which is due to unexpected delays with parts actually one part Lukasz said. It's either quality control issues. But could likely also have been simple delays for getting parts at a decent price without having to buy 1000+ parts. Electronics for a small company can be an issue, especially if you have to maintain quality and maintain a competitive price. If your usual source does not have parts anymore you have to go to Plan B or C. I don't think with invoice 50 that they just to be quicker order 1000+ of a part, does not make sense and is a bad use of resources. 

As I just experienced just ordering small parts from oversees can be hassle free or hell, especially if customs decides to interfere or if you need to do returns. If you have a good source all is well.

I remember at the installer job at some point we just had to bite the bullet and order 100m rolls of premium cables, adapters, and storage space to avoid issues with delivery and just stay competitive. That's tens of thousands of GBP a roll. That was a big investment, but it eventually paid for itself in spades. Maybe this is just part of the Feliks growing process.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Apparently the parts they are waiting are the custom made chasis, they have been struggling to keep up.



 


Ah interesting, now we know

Well so it is a qc issue then. Nothing worse than sending out a product that does not look right Jokes aside, this would be fatal for almost any company to do without permanently (photos online) loosing your reputation. I was curious how they were able to offer the sound and that look for that money. I just assumed one of the Feliks boys does it himself doing it professionally for another business. 

Schiit got a "bi"t of a bad rep on some of the German forums for having less than stellar qc on the chasis they sent out. Almost killed it in that market and why Chinese resellers have strangely a better rep than Schiit over here although there is a lot of prejudice against Chinese companies, Yulong, Lite, Shangling, AudioGD either limit their resellers or "only" sell direct. Still only have a French and British Schiit reseller for those reasons and really hurt them in some European markets which is a shame. You cannot unsee a bad finish. 




Cheers WB


----------



## pctazhp

I'm sure no one is waiting with baited breath for my comparison of HD800S and T1 Gen 2 on the Elise. But I promised to report and I just want to update where I am with that.
  
 Yesterday, I ordered an open box T1 Gen 2 from Amazon, which I should have in about a week. I do like the S a lot, but I can't get rid of this feeling that I'm missing the special magic I experienced with the T1. Right this moment I'm enjoying very much running JAN 6N7 RCA/CANADIAN MARCONI COMPANY as drivers and my Mullard 6080s for power with the S. But I have more combos to try with the S.
  
 After I receive the T1s and have time to fully compare the two headphones side by side I will report on my conclusions. I will also either return the T1 or put my S up for sale.
  
 Edit:  PS. I was one of the 7 voters who chose #1 )))


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I'm sure no one is waiting with baited breath for my comparison of HD800S and T1 Gen 2 on the Elise. But I promised to report and I just want to update where I am with that.
> 
> Yesterday, I ordered an open box T1 Gen 2 from Amazon, which I should have in about a week. I do like the S a lot, but I can't get rid of this feeling that I'm missing the special magic I experienced with the T1. Right this moment I'm enjoying very much running JAN 6N7 RCA/CANADIAN MARCONI COMPANY as drivers and my Mullard 6080s for power with the S. But I have more combos to try with the S.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct....WRONG!! - I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in your comparison...if only to reinforce once more my belief in that "special magic" of the T1, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But I shan't reprimand you if your final choice goes to the Senns - that side-by-side comparison should indeed be the clincher...*but then again??!!*...for this conclusion, my own breath will _*definitely*_ be bated LOL!!!...GOOD LUCK!...
  
 ps. So you're another #1 voter - are we all _sad_, or what?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Must admit perhaps there are a few things that in some respects might just be more "prized" as such, but they don't occupy anywhere near the same quality time on a day-to-day basis and thus go off the radar....(would love to know just what @DecentLevi has stashed away as #1 - Crown Jewels perhaps?!!...but I bet he doesn't get it/them out every day, lol!!...c'mon DL, put me/us out of my/our misery, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## mordy

The Elise is well worth the wait. Now, since I had to wait 6 months for my #9 I'll guess it made it even more worth the wait....
  
 Have been playing around - I mean been doing scientific research, on finding great sounding power tube combinations for the Elise, using the 6BL7 as the main ingredient. Pairing it with the 6N7 is a great combination with a very sweet and luscious sound.
  
 Now I tried to pair the 6BL7 with the C3g:
  
  




  
 Here are my impressions: Great detail, wide sound stage, good bass, good gain, but harsh treble and an overall harsh presentation that lacks warmth - the sweetness from the 6N7 is missing. Perhaps a good match for certain equipment....
  
 Not my cup of tea - lacks the sweetness of that luscious mid range from the BL/6N7 combo.
  
 Next I tried the Russian 6N23P from the 6DJ8 family. Did not work for me at all - way too much hum. Since I had the 9pin adapters in, I tried the power tubes from the Little Dot MKIII - 6H6n - same results - nye good - too much hum.
  
 Back to the 6N7. Saw an ad from 1946 for this tube - the selling price was $1.90. According to my inflation calculator that translates to $25 today.
  
 EL3N -6BL7/6N7: Fabulous sound.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> You want beef you get beef. I'm hungry now.




Beef is good. Let's put it this way: you'll not see me at the vegan convention.

However, what you posted was "Sukiyaki", not Take Five. (?)


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Lukasz replied about 2-3 more weeks for mine.  They have to do a better job of estimating, this is getting on my nerves, I don't like companies to give you a low ball estimate of delivery, knowing 6-8 weeks is not going to happen, and then pushing back delivery even further.  I understand it is a small family run company, but if they expect to play on the global market, they have to be more realistic.  If I would have been told 3 months right off the bat, I still would have ordered it as I "believe" it to be a good product. I don't want them to take short cuts to improve delivery times, just be more honest on how long it will take.  The product should speak for itself. Contunual delays, marks a product down.  Others that read this forum that may have been thing 6-8 weeks is not too bad a time to wait, but then see the actual delivery time, may start to doubt the company.  I will wait until it gets here to hype this product any further. No more recommendations until I get the product and can run my own testing.  Good luck to you all



 


Yeah no need to hype anything, but that is always normal way of doing business. My worst experiences actually come from some South and Central American companies I delt with. Mexicans are lovely people but often have a tendency to agree with everything and live in a weird space time continuum. 

The usual practice is to give an estimate for ideal circumstances, because else many antsy people will not order what they want but what is available. Reducing the barrier of acquisition. Lasso them in for their own fortune is the moto, remaining below a threshold. If a company writes 3 months this usually means 3-6 months so noone will tell you that. Everyone is familiar with the $9.99 instead of selling a product for $10. Its a psychological threshold. However I have to mention that Feliks had a pretty decent delvery estimate until the little delay now, no issues. 

Take Care
WB


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Beef is good. Let's put it this way: you'll not see me at the vegan convention.
> 
> However, what you posted was "Sukiyaki", not Take Five. (?)


 

 I ran out of Take Five so I gave you Sukiyaki.


----------



## UntilThen

Well folks this is my 6am news reporting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's the first time I have to catch up on posts lol. So many interesting posts from everyone.
  
 First and foremost I'm rather sympathetic to connieflyer for the extended wait due to the chassis supply. I mean I was waiting rather anxiously for mine too and that seem like an eternity but when it came. it was all good and I forgot all about the wait. Instead I got sleepless nights, staying up listening to music like an owl. Did you know owl listen to music? Just look at their eyes. They are gobsmacked by what they hear.
  
 Delays and slippage are not confined to Elise only. I do have to point this out. As an example, I'll quote someone waiting for the much loved and famous DNA Stratus. 
  
_'Based on my experience.... 10 months and counting. I was initially fairly relaxed about the 6 months quoted and expected some slippage, but 10 months plus is a long time. I may have been tempted to explore other options but have invested a lot in tubes for the amp.'_    from post #2661
  
 This poor chap expected it in 6 months but he's still waiting after 10 months. Well as the post above that said, _'It's well worth the wait. Good things comes to those who wait'._ 
  
 While waiting I'll entertain you with Sukiyaki.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I ran out of Take Five so I gave you Sukiyaki.


 
  
 One does not run out of Take Fives. They keep on giving.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm sure no one is waiting with baited breath for my comparison of HD800S and T1 Gen 2 on the Elise. But I promised to report and I just want to update where I am with that.
> 
> Yesterday, I ordered an open box T1 Gen 2 from Amazon, which I should have in about a week. I do like the S a lot, but I can't get rid of this feeling that I'm missing the special magic I experienced with the T1. Right this moment I'm enjoying very much running JAN 6N7 RCA/CANADIAN MARCONI COMPANY as drivers and my Mullard 6080s for power with the S. But I have more combos to try with the S.
> 
> ...


 

 I want to know your findings when your ready. 
  
 I've heard HD800, HD800S, T1 original and T1 black anniversary model but I've not heard the T1 G2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Out of all those I like the T1 black the most (a pair of T1 original paired with Violectric V281 in balanced mode sounds good too) but I could possibly live with any of them. I just have to tune them with tubes to my liking. I'm probably one of the minority that prefers the HD800 and T1 originals rather than the revised versions. The originals are simply ... as someone said 'Deeply revealing'


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> One does not run out of Take Fives. They keep on giving.


 
 This is mesmerising. I thought the saxophone sounded good then the piano playing came on and I go wow but the drummer blew me away.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> This is mesmerising. I thought the saxophone sounded good then the piano playing came on and I go wow but the drummer blew me away.




Oh yeah. And the camera work by the Belgians is quite awesome.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> One does not run out of Take Fives. They keep on giving.




Paul Desmond, who was Brubeck's alto saxophonist, wrote the song. and called it "Take Five" because it was written in an unusual 5/4 meter. It was one of the first Jazz songs with a time signature other than the standard 4/4 beat or 3/4 waltz time.

Paul Desmond also donated all future royalties to the song to the American Red Cross, after he passed. the American Red Cross has acknowledged that it made millions from the generous donation.

You should listen to Grover Washington Jr's version of "Take Five" that I posted here, some weeks back


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> You should listen to Grover Washington Jr's version of "Take Five" that I posted here, some weeks back




Sorry, but that's kind of a Kenny G version.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Sorry, but that's kind of a Kenny G version.




Haha!!

OMG! "Kenny G" version! I thought it brought some fresh funk, to it!

How about the Acoustic Alchemy's version?



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ_3NOs43iQ[/VIDEO]



!!


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> How about the Acoustic Alchemy's version?




Quite nice actually! But elevator music compared to the original.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Quite nice actually! But elevator music compared to the original.




LOL...

Guess I have heard the original *so many times in my life*, I tend to favor the remakes.


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL...
> 
> Guess I have heard the original *so many times in my life*, I tend to favor the remakes.


 
 sacrilege, mon ami


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> sacrilege, mon ami :eek:




What is sacrilege? Having heard the original "Time Out" enough times to be a bit burnt out on it? 

Ay....ye...."newbies"...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Speaking of great remakes...have you heard Cassandra Wilsons version of Neil Youngs "Harvest Moon"?



[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JU5jqVOW6gk [/VIDEO]


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL...
> 
> Guess I have heard the original *so many times in my life*, I tend to favor the remakes.


 
 sacrilege, mon ami


jazzvinyl said:


> What is sacrilege? Having heard the original "Time Out" enough times to be a bit burnt out on it?
> 
> Ay....ye...."newbies"...


 

 newbie?  ha!  i wish ... but the fact remains,_ time out_ just withstands the test of time (for me, anyway) along with _watermelon man_, _green onion_ and _desireless_.
  
 but here's a classic from my school days:

  
  
  
 but these days, i groove to this:


----------



## UntilThen

Something new


----------



## geetarman49

well, that certainly deserves a follow-up with some uplifting classical:
  
 
  
 frankly, this is too uplifting ...  i prefer the more darkly tinged:


----------



## UntilThen

Not bad I think I like Chelsea Wolfe. 7/10.


----------



## UntilThen

Holly Cole - Hold On. Finally it appeared.


----------



## supersonic395

Lukasz has been exceptionally excellent when dealing with myself, so the wait time is not an issue for me and if it takes a little longer than initially expected then so be it imo. Afterall it's about getting the best quality product with a view to long-term use so it's a non-issue for me. 

Then again I have patience for Led Zeppelin releases and bespoke orders elsewhere


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Holly Cole - Hold On. Finally it appeared.
> 
> ...


 
  
 that, unfortunately, not visible from can ... have to vpn via oz to see.
  
 but here's a different version ...


----------



## Oskari

[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/jaiaaar88EM[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> that, unfortunately, not visible from can ... have to vpn via oz to see.
> 
> but here's a different version ...


 
  
 This is a different Hold On ... but I do love Sarah McLachlan's songs.


----------



## geetarman49

that's why i said different version ... as in ... completely different
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
@Oskari  btw, wikipedia has a very interesting disc-exposé on the history of leppard's hysteria.
  
 but as good as all these are, here's a great rendition of a song whose origins still remain somewhat murky as described in wikipedia.
 a great song, a great performance  ... all of which ultimately led to the fracturing of the band.
 price was 22 at the time, burdon 23. [it's also interesting to note price's fluidic keywork and his absolute mastery over the instrument is very evident - contrast that to current musicians who feel compelled to display their novice chops on keyboard when their expertise is clearly elsewhere]


----------



## UntilThen

@geetarman49  when you get Elise, you'll be reliving the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s ... I have no doubt 
  
 And you cannot listen to the House of the Rising Sun without my masterpiece sunrise. Taken in 2012 at Terrigal Beach. Now press play on the song again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Animals' video is cute, all lip synced, as it is. Do wish we had heard more from Eric Burden over the years. Loved "Spill the wine" with WAR, wish he had been able to stay with them for a longer period (he was forced to quit due to papers he had signed earlier in his career).

I don't understand @geetarman49's comment about the keyboard playing:

" [it's also interesting to note price's fluidic keywork and his absolute mastery over the instrument is very evident - contrast that to current musicians who feel compelled to display their novice chops on keyboard when their expertise is clearly elsewhere]"

Huh???? Plenty of extremely competent keyboardists running around on the planet, currently.



Now for something really exciting and different:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqsceL2m-g[/VIDEO]



"The Cure" by Trombone Shorty, from his CD: "Backatown"...

http://www.amazon.com/Backatown-Trombone-Shorty/dp/B003C5FMEE


----------



## connieflyer

If you are old enough, you would remember riding to this......


----------



## connieflyer

Slow night..
  

  
 Don't fear the Reaper ( maybe you should!)


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> The Animals' video is cute, all lip synced, as it is. Do wish we had heard more from Eric Burden over the years. Loved "Spill the wine" with WAR, wish he had been able to stay with them for a longer period (he was forced to quit due to papers he had signed earlier in his career).
> 
> I don't understand @geetarman49's comment about the keyboard playing:
> 
> ...


 
  
 my dagger was aimed solely at those (musicians) who feel they must indulge in instrument flipping just to show 'hey, i am also a (insert instrument here) player'.  there are, of course, plenty of legitimate keyboardists who have great chops.
 to cite an example, have a look at jessica dobson of deep sea diver (a great lead guitarist, imo) - she starts off with some nice guitar work but then skip to ~ 5:00 and contrast her guitar work against her keyboard work

  
  
 more of her great lead guitar work can be seen from the time she was with the shins: 
 
  
 of course, i'm just venting ... there are plenty of other bands/musicians who indulge in this ... showmanship - the number of musicians who are accomplished multi-instrumentalists is not that great.


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> The Animals' video is cute, all lip synced, as it is. Do wish we had heard more from Eric Burden over the years. Loved "Spill the wine" with WAR, wish he had been able to stay with them for a longer period (he was forced to quit due to papers he had signed earlier in his career).
> 
> I don't understand @geetarman49's comment about the keyboard playing:
> 
> ...


 

 effin' great stuff, JV.
 but here's some vid of TS:


----------



## connieflyer

How about a litte more west of oleans like Texas....


----------



## Oskari

geetarman49 said:


> btw, wikipedia has a very interesting disc-exposé on the history of leppard's hysteria.




Thanks! An interesting read.




connieflyer said:


> How about a litte more west of oleans like Texas....




A classic.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> How about a litte more west of oleans like Texas....


 
 Such a great recording. For some reason I've never been able to warm up much to jazz. The smoke in the cowboy bars always smelled much better than in the jazz clubs. Today, the main consideration for us when it comes to smoke seems to be  the ability to represent that a headphone we want to sell has been maintained in a "smoke free" environment - not to mention, I guess, the health considerations )))


----------



## connieflyer

Wife had the great idea to quit smoking about 22 years ago, health risk, was a concern, but we had a lot of friends that did not smoke, and both sets of parents were alive then, and would come over and sit in the living room while we went up like a chimney.  It wasn't until  after we quit, we found out how fowl the house smelled and wondered how our friends and parents put up with it.  Of course I was at 3 packs a day, and we made a bargain. We could add up what we spent on smokes, for one year, and use the money any way we wanted to.  Got a top notch stereo system and just could not go back to smoking, for fear she would sell it off for reniging on our deal.  I quit cold turkey, she took three more tries. Never liked country music until I bought property in East Tennessee, and spent alot of time there.  Learned alot.  Chris Isaak has a very fine voice.


----------



## UntilThen

Great music and videos from all of you. My tubes for this weekend - Mazda 6N7G and Tung Sol 5998. This will clear any smokey joint. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I was the exact opposite of pct and loved Jazz, stayed out of Cowboy bars altogether. Played and later spent years mixing for Jazz Bands....loved very moment of it. We opened for some pretty big talents. 

Speaking if nice remakes...here is Fatburger doing Santana's Evil Ways...the original was great, but also dig this remake:




[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xG2JTsen8fQ [/VIDEO]




Each to the joyfull noise that does it, for thee....


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Wife had the great idea to quit smoking about 22 years ago, health risk, was a concern, but we had a lot of friends that did not smoke, and both sets of parents were alive then, and would come over and sit in the living room while we went up like a chimney.  It wasn't until  after we quit, we found out how fowl the house smelled and wondered how our friends and parents put up with it.  Of course I was at 3 packs a day, and we made a bargain. We could add up what we spent on smokes, for one year, and use the money any way we wanted to.  Got a top notch stereo system and just could not go back to smoking, for fear she would sell it off for reniging on our deal.  I quit cold turkey, she took three more tries. Never liked country music until I bought property in East Tennessee, and spent alot of time there.  Learned alot.  Chris Isaak has a very fine voice.


 
 WOW!!! I'm actually very impressed. From 3 packs a day to cold turkey. You are a true Iron Man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@JazzVinyl  I suspect you may have avoided a few unnecessary and undesirable characters by favoring the jazz clubs ))))
  
 @UntilThen. I finally found a Guns N' Roses video I could listen to the whole way through - more than 12 minutes !!!
  
 Edit:  I forgot to mention the most important thing. The opening song is my fellow Arizonian Alice Cooper's "Only Women Bleed"!!!


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> I
> Each to the joyfull noise that does it, for thee....


 
 I love Santana. More than once in my life (usually with the help of a few Coors Lights) I have loudly expressed the opinion that Dark Magic Woman is either the 1st or 2nd finest recording ever made - the other of course being the Eagles' Hotel California ))))


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I love Santana. More than once in my life (usually with the help of a few Coors Lights) I have loudly expressed the opinion that Dark Magic Woman is either the 1st or 2nd finest recording ever made - the other of course being the Eagles' Hotel California ))))




Think you meant:
"Black Magic Woman"

Indeed, the "Abraxas" album is superb start to finish.

Also loved the album: "Caravanserai" too...

Joe Walsh said in an interview that if digital recording software programs that enabled "corrections" we're not available, they would STILL be working on the Hotel California album...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another excellent remake, worthy of gracing Elise's innards:



[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P_px_Vgbok0 [/VIDEO]


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Think you meant:
> "Black Magic Woman"
> 
> Indeed, the "Abraxas" album is superb start to finish.
> ...


 
  
 "Dark", "Black". After a couple of Coors who cares


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I finally found a Guns N' Roses video I could listen to the whole way through - more than 12 minutes !!!




Painful to watch, though. Put some clothes on, you freaks! Lol. :rolleyes:


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> Painful to watch, though. Put some clothes on, you freaks! Lol.


 
 Yeah. I probably should have posted an appropriate warning about vulgarity, children under 18, etc!!! My apologies if I offended anyone. Other than swimming pools or beaches, I never appear in public unless fully clothed!!!


----------



## UntilThen

In other news, Axl Rose will become frontman for AC/DC.


----------



## UntilThen

Well that was painful to watch too. I prefer this. No I love this.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Well that was painful to watch too. I prefer this. No I love this.


 
 So great!! Sam Cooke was one of my teenage favorites. The music was much simpler then. The world - maybe not so much.


----------



## connieflyer

Sam Cooke had a great voice and was able to cross over many lines of music, this was also one of my favorites, seemed like just what we needed to hear, but our politicians had a different idea, Vietnam kind of ruined the whole "wonderful world thing for me"  But getting back to the music, it was a great time to be alive. Thanks for the video, had not heard that in awhile.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Johnny Cash:



[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EtbuUlSGXzc[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> So great!! Sam Cooke was one of my teenage favorites. The music was much simpler then. The world - maybe not so much.


 
 Your teenage favorite? I only heard of Sam Cooke in 2015. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Elise introduced me to his music. Amazing huh. 
  
  
 ....  although 'Wonderful World' was a childhood tune that became ingrained in my mind as it's played so often on the airwaves and I'd sing it to the girl next door.


----------



## WB2016

supersonic395 said:


> Lukasz has been exceptionally excellent when dealing with myself, so the wait time is not an issue for me and if it takes a little longer than initially expected then so be it imo. Afterall it's about getting the best quality product with a view to long-term use so it's a non-issue for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Then again I have patience for Led Zeppelin releases and bespoke orders elsewhere



 


Yeah, 
that might be it having patience for bespoke is something that is an acquired taste.
WB


----------



## UntilThen

@WB2016 you have 6xEL3N ready I hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is a bespoke combination. Soundstage and instruments separation are simply stunning. 
  
 Anyway Randy Crawford is another recent discovery for me and I love her singing, especially this song.


----------



## geetarman49

here's a quartet of fave artists/performances (really, each is deserving of a separate posting but i'm lazy):

  

  

  

  
  
 and i can't wait for the live performance vids from this supergroup, but in the meantime here's some audio:


----------



## supersonic395

wb2016 said:


> supersonic395 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukasz has been exceptionally excellent when dealing with myself, so the wait time is not an issue for me and if it takes a little longer than initially expected then so be it imo. Afterall it's about getting the best quality product with a view to long-term use so it's a non-issue for me.
> ...


 
  
 I do understand your patience wearing thin, I recall my first bespoke order and the wait towards the end was absolutely agonizing 
  
 Fortunately it was worth it and has since made wait times much easier and hopefully the wait will be worth it for you too


----------



## WB2016

supersonic395 said:


> I do understand your patience wearing thin, I recall my first bespoke order and the wait towards the end was absolutely agonizing
> 
> Fortunately it was worth it and has since made wait times much easier and hopefully the wait will be worth it for you too



 


No, you misunderstand me. I was completely agreeing with you. Luckily I have had the experience of ordering quite a few things bespoke and that has steeled me a bit to this. Not that the best way to deal with the anxiety is venting a bit. The worst was a custom full wood kitchen. Got delayed twice and was in a house with a minifridge and hotplate for 6 weeks longer than I had anticipated. I was more or less OK with it, but it almost cost me a girlfriend of mine. Luckily she picked the kitchen, so I was off the hook but roughing it was not exactly her style. So I take it with a grain of salt, sometimes you vent but as a German saying goes "For all good things you need to wait". Really much better than lowering quality to speed up production.

I'm now in the home stretch, knock on wood

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> In other news, Axl Rose will become frontman for AC/DC.




 


Yeah I thought that was a joke when I read it. But then a friend sent me these two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm47c76_XRI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4WNKDH-4g

Never though he would be able to do that, but hey it can only be better than Guns n' Roses only by himself

Also boys and girls watch that high volume. Brian Johnson (ACDC) if he plays one more loud concert will likely never hear again, wow!

Cheers WB


----------



## hpamdr

I've evaluated Gustard X20 side to Metrum Acoustics Musette with Elise and T1 for a week. I did the tests with EL3N, 6N7GT, ECC31, VT-231 as drivers and 5968, 6080 GEC/CSF as power tube.
  
 I use Elise with OPO BDP105 and SMSL M8 (both based on ESS 9018 )
  
 Out of the box, the X20 was not sounding at it best but after 300h of decoding feedinge wav, flac,DSD at different bitrate. I really started the evaluation and get from a dealer the one I wanted to buy a Metrum Acoustique Musette. 
  
 The Musette was already burned by the distributor as it is a demo device.
 I did listened during the test : Same palylist multiple times on both DAC and on Elise with T1 and the the tube i usally chose depending of the music.
 Organ music, philarmonic, small ensemble (violin, flute, celo, viola), piano, harpsichord,  jazz, pop and blues.
  
  
 Both Dac are very good DAC and at least as good as the OPO BDP105. I do not know if the comparison is fair as my ears are already trained to ESS9018 sound.
  
 Musette have a very sweet sounding presentation with jazz, vocals and small ensembles. 
 Medium and high are very well articulated the overall presentation is very natural but seems less neutral to me that the X20.
  
 Gustard is very transparent and detailled and a bit more dynamic that the musette.
 With organ music and symphonic music  i feel than the gustard is much precise.
 No apparent digital glare, stridency or harshness/digitittus, the overall presentation is alvays very neutral and all seems to be at the right place.
 Playing dsf/dff file using Native or DOP reveals more details than with the musette.
  
 With Elise the gustard pairs better than the musette and is finally the winner !
 For me the transparency an the precision of the X20 is really exploited with EL3N or ECC31 as drriver and you get the tube flavor to have a very natural sound. The remote and the very high output level goes well with Elise.
  
 If the test was done with an SS amp or if I was not already used to ESS9018 sound i would probably decided to keep the musette as the sound is very natural and sweet.


----------



## Lord Raven

Good for you UT, for me, car audio is life.
  
 I was changing the capacitors, it was an accident. I found replacement, I am back on track. Thank God!
  
 Someone asked me to sell it out of nowhere, I am not selling.
  
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Dang you guys compared your Elise to your cars. I didn't
> 
> 2 years ago I would be driving around in my Hondas, enjoying the music but now I rather strap on my headphone. The cars are simply to get me to where I need to go. I did have a blast from the sound system yesterday when I went for a drive and turn up the volume.
> 
> That's sad to hear LR. Tweeters are not for servicing. Why would you sell Elise. How are you going to enjoy your 6gb of DSD files. What would your HD600 do without Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

You're right, their magnets are so strong, I always avoided screws and tools around them but this was an accident.
  
 Manufacturer is the worst, no after sales services at all, I am going to ditch this brand. Not even worth mentioning here!
  
 Quote:


geetarman49 said:


> very sorry to hear this, LR.
> the magnetic field strength of many tweeters is so great that they will literally pull steel tools and fasteners into them & as you have found out, pulling themselves together into destruction.
> spkr builders/service people get to know this through experience and take precautions incl. keeping drivers in their boxes as long as possible.
> the other aspect is the increasing use of exotic materials in the dome construction - beryllium, diamond ... these domes can be exceedingly fragile.  in the early days of ceramic tweeters, a lot of them were destroyed because people would invariably be drawn to touch them (a single touch meant failure) ... must be some psychological pull like petting a cat ... lol.
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks WB for the comforting words, I have found a replacement and it is coming in a day or two. I am glad I found it, not a single dealer helped me out, talked to America, Canada, Dubai, and finally a dealer in Italy helped me out. Focal is the worst company ever, this is the 2nd time I had to seek their help and no one even responded. The are just making money selling things but no after sales services.
  
 Thanks once again for the cheering up  Killing your equipment by mistake is the worst or heartache... 
  
 Quote:


wb2016 said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> > Biggest mistake of my life, thought to share. I was servicing my tweeters and damaged one. The pair was placed together with their protective shield on, the one pulled the other and damaged the dome. I am so heart broken. Glad I just bought a replacement. Don't even ask how much it costs. It costs TWO Elise for a single tweeter.
> ...


----------



## supersonic395

wb2016 said:


> supersonic395 said:
> 
> 
> > I do understand your patience wearing thin, I recall my first bespoke order and the wait towards the end was absolutely agonizing
> ...




Ah okay I see  

Bring on the Elise!!


----------



## WB2016

Ah, thank god for Italian friendliness. Even in the world of Focal it exists. I guess you have a Utopia from the problems you mentioned. Nice speakers less so the customer support. Yes, we can pull out all the stereotypes of French being rude and unhelpful, especially to American or German males, but it seems to be so fitting, especially you experience with the Italians. It will be a funny story once you exchanged them and your wallet recovers believe me. 

Here is where installers with connections really can help, but honestly some manufacturers have little discount and bad customer care that even installers tell their clients to order the speakers themselves or try to stear them in another direction. 

All the BS about system upgrades seems like nothing if your speakers are damaged. Had a forced "mono" setup for a client hooked up while he waited for a grande utopia that got scratched someplace in transport most likely. At least you have headphones and an Elise. The customer was not happy to say the least. Great speakers a bit odd of a company and luckily the only time I ever dealt with them regarding customer support. We ended up installing my bosses personal home speakers to cover the gap, which made my boss an unhappy camper and in turn me as well. Not that they would have expidited shipping or processing or anything Cannot talk bad about the company they make good stuff but their customer service is cliche french. Strangely Naim which they own has very good service, don't understand why, don't care and will likely never have to care again. Did they make you feel like it was all your fault and subtley question your intelligence. If not you didn't get the full treatment

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

hpamdr said:


> I've evaluated Gustard X20 side to Metrum Acoustics Musette with Elise and T1 for a week. I did the tests with EL3N, 6N7GT, ECC31, VT-231 as drivers and 5968, 6080 GEC/CSF as power tube.


 
 Interesting impressions of the DACs. I have the pleasure of hearing a Metrum Acoustics Hex with Woo Audio Wa2 + GEC 6AS7G + Amperex Bugle boys and HD800 original. Had good synergy there.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> here's a quartet of fave artists/performances (really, each is deserving of a separate posting but i'm lazy):
> 
> and i can't wait for the live performance vids from this supergroup, but in the meantime here's some audio:


 
 Thanks G. I like these. Sounds really good on my setup. NAD d1050 > Elise + 6xEL3N > HD650. I thought I had the T1 on but it's the HD650 ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm just lost in music.
  
 Amazing video quality and sound reproduction. 1080p HD


----------



## UntilThen

Got to thank Gee man for introducing me to KEXP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 HE560 on Elise sounds so good with this. Get this headphone. It's so natural sounding and rhythmic.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Thanks G. I like these. Sounds really good on my setup. NAD d1050 > Elise + 6xEL3N > HD650. I thought I had the T1 on but it's the HD650 ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Got to thank Gee man for introducing me to KEXP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 my pleasure, UT.   here's some canadiana that i'm sure will sound great with elise.
 the beautiful & talented kendel carson sings on this one, but she is well-known for her great fiddle work.  she is seen in one of the vids doing guitar too ... not many bands have three fiddlers.


----------



## UntilThen

Well well well. Belle Starr next song is Jolene and I see lots of singers doing this song but this one caught my attention and it's no wrecking ball. Very good I'd say.


----------



## geetarman49

truly a great rendition, UT ... but she needs a fiddler ... maybe this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> I've evaluated Gustard X20 side to Metrum Acoustics Musette with Elise and T1 for a week. I did the tests with EL3N, 6N7GT, ECC31, VT-231 as drivers and 5968, 6080 GEC/CSF as power tube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi HPAMDR,

just the type of comparison I was going to do now that the Elise will hopefully arrive this or next week. Good to hear of the synergy with the Elise, I was looking at the X20 as well since it was compared to the Vega at 3500USD, which avoided the 9018 trebble issues very well and Yggy the Schiit TOTL R2R multibit. At only 800Euros it seems a steal if you get the advantages of Sabre without the trebble issues and diggy sound (as much) and the advantages of transparancy, soundstage and detail vs. R2R. I was going to compare it to the DAC19 SE and glad to hear that the X20 SE is good as well. Plus the REMOTE!!! That really is almost a must have for being on the couch

For those in Europe you can order the X20 from amazon.co.uk or .it form kidult without import taxes, which would be around 30% while maintaining competitive pricing, looks quite tempting. Also seems as if you can do some minor reversible tweeks very easily, e.g. replace that terrible circuitbreaker with something HIFI and some isolation, both vibration and EM. 

Thanks for posting
WB


----------



## pctazhp

This is my promised side-by-side comparison of the T1Gen 2 and HD800S. I have spent a lot of time listening to both headphones.
  
 For those that don’t want to read all the way through, I’m going to disclose up front that I have decided to keep the T1 and put my HD800S up for sale. They are both amazing headphones, and I can easily see why different people would prefer one over the other, even by wide margins. I believe in deciding between two phones, it really comes down to a gut-level decision that is difficult to describe or even understand. For me, I made my decision primarily on the basis of which phone did I usually find myself listening to longer without being tempted to change back to the other (the T1 won this one) and which phone did I usually listen to for the shortest period of time before wanting to switch back to the other (the T1 also won this one).
  
 Having said that, I will now try to describe the differences I hear and experience. Of course, the amp is the Elise. I am using the same tube combination with both phones so I don’t waste a lot of time switching back and forth. I have chosen, my EL3N/ Tungsol 7236 combination, because I think it is well suited to both phones.
  
Size of Soundstage: I’m starting with this because it is the one category where I’m giving the nod to the 800. The expanse of space with the 800 is truly amazing, and I suspect is what is largely responsible for its popularity. It is the one headphone I have ever heard (including the T1) that gives me the full sense of what I think the dimensions of venue were where the recording was made. It is also the one phone that equals or rivals the spatial experiences I have had with some of the finest two-channel, speaker-based systems I have owned or heard. This is not to say that the T1 is seriously lacking in this regard. It just doesn’t quite reach the truly stunning quality the 800 exhibits in this category.
  
Aesthetics: The is purely a personal preference, and I give the nod to the T1. The 800 has a very impressive contemporary design, and I really like the black. I think it is probably much less prone to scratching than the HD800 Classic seems to be. But I personally prefer the simpler, retro design of the T1. It doesn’t have the bravado or heft of the 800 design, but like Bill O’Reilly, I’m a simple man and prefer the simpler things in life))))
  
Comfort:  I have elephant ears and a large pointed-top head (sounds really handsome, doesn’t it????). The 800 has frequently been described as the most comfortable headphone ever. Well, for me the T1 is more comfortable. I can wear it for hours without any physical discomfort. I cannot say the same for the 800. I suspect a lot of people would reach the opposite conclusion on this comparison. The 800 ear cavity is massive and provides considerable distance from the ears. Although it is a very large can, it is light weight. Sennheiser obviously devoted a lot of time to the physical design of the 800.
  
Detail: The T1 clearly wins here. Listening for example to Shania Twain’s “Still the One: Live from Las Vegas” concert recording, I just can’t understand a lot of her words to the songs I’m not familiar with. I get most of the words with the T1. On other recordings (such as Shelby Lynne’s “I Can’t Imagine”) I swear with the T1 I am actually hearing the fingers stroke the strings of the guitar. With the 800 I just hear a guitar playing. Same with drums. With the T1, I feel I am hearing the drumsticks hit the skin, and not just a drum playing as with the 800.
  
Spatial Clues:  As I said above the 800 is spatially more expansive than the T1. But the spatial clues are quite a bit better with the T1. Vocals and instruments are precisely placed in space, both from side-to-side and front-to-back, and the “air” between the instruments is palpable. As UT has described, the soundstage of the T1 is truly “holographic”.
  
Bass:  The T1 has tighter and more impactful bass. Maybe it is because I know that Sennheiser added some second order harmonic distortion to the bass of the 800S, but somehow something just doesn’t seem quite right to me with the 800S’ bass. The bass on both the 800 and T1 is acceptable for a TOTL headphone. It’s not a Beats sound, but I don’t know of any Beats aficionados on this thread. I do want to say that when I describe the bass of the T1 as “controlled”, I don’t mean it is “sterile”. It is very natural, including very natural “bloom”.
  
Midrange:  I have read comparisons between the T1 and 800 where it is said that T1’s midrange is recessed by comparison. If I listen real hard I think maybe I can hear that, but to me the T1 midrange is clearer, cleaner, more detailed and more natural.
  
Treble:  Simply stated the T1 has considerably more “sparkle” than the 800. However, the 800 trebles may be a little more natural, and not lacking in any significant manner.
  
Timbre:  The T1 is just so clean, controlled, free of resonance and detailed, timbre is better than the 800.
  
Natural reverberation: This may fall under “detail”, but I want to treat it as a separate category. The late Harry Pearson used to talk a lot about the ability of a system to reproduce the natural reverberation that occurs when direct soundwaves of vocals and instruments hit the boundaries of the recording venue and bouncing back. In this respect, the T1 is the clear winner.
  
Emotional involvement: This is a purely subjective category. For me, the T1 is much more involving than the 800. Again, referencing UT, the 800 is more “relaxed” than the T1. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But to me the 800 by comparison is “flat” and lacks the “bloom” or “magic” of the T1.
  
 So is the T1 perfect? Of course not. There is no such thing as a perfect electronic transducer. While it has more sparkle than the 800, it’s trebles and aggressiveness can be a little fatiguing on some recordings if I concentrate hard on that. But when I’m just listening to the “performance” and not the “headphone” I can listen for hours with the T1 and still want to keep going.
  
 If I could describe in a few short words, the main advantage of the T1 I guess I would say that it is exceptionally well-integrated from very low bass to the high trebles – not to mention that it is a made-in-heaven match for the Elise (for which we all owe a debt of gratitude to H1 for initially discovering).
  
 Please remember, everything above is just my personal experience on the system I have described. The words I have chosen to describe the differences probably impart a sense of greater difference than what I am actually hearing. They are the best words I can find, but I think as with so many reviews they probably “overstate” rather than “understate” what the reviewer is trying to describe. And finally, don’t forget I’m 71 – with all the advantages of experience that comes with that as well as the decline in my hearing that has naturally come with age.
  
 For those who made it this far, thanks for reading. I spent a lot of time preparing for and writing this post, but welcome any and all critical comments.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Well well well. Belle Starr next song is Jolene and I see lots of singers doing this song but this one caught my attention and it's no wrecking ball. Very good I'd say.




 Not quite like the smokey, dark cowboy bars of my distant past - buy I agree. Very good.


----------



## pctazhp

geetarman49 said:


> my pleasure, UT.   here's some canadiana that i'm sure will sound great with elise.
> the beautiful & talented kendel carson sings on this one, but she is well-known for her great fiddle work.  she is seen in one of the vids doing guitar too ... not many bands have three fiddlers.


 
 Very cool )))


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Got to thank Gee man for introducing me to KEXP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I also appreciate him telling us about KEXP. And nice to see a band with a great name.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> This is my promised side-by-side comparison of the T1Gen 2 and HD800S. I have spent a lot of time listening to both headphones.


 
 That's a great effort in describing the T1 G2 and HD800S. I agree with most of what is written except for comfort. The HD800 fits my head better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I spend a great amount of time with both versions of HD800 at the meet. I was impressed and love it and wished that I had more time with them. However as soon as I strapped on the T1 on my head again, I knew I prefer the T1's sound signature. It has the sparkle and bite. Bass is also more natural sounding and impactful. Having said that, I could live with either headphones and I think Elise pairs perfectly with them.
  
 Well written pctazhp.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> That's a great effort in describing the T1 G2 and HD800S. I agree with most of what is written except for comfort. The HD800 fits my head better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot UT. I should have mentioned that I too could be happy with either one. Unfortunately, in trying to describe differences I probably sounded much more critical of the 800 than I am. Also, I should have pointed out that my volume level was never more than a hair above 9 o'clock for both headphones. The Elise is a very, very special amp.


----------



## hpamdr

wb2016 said:


> Hi HPAMDR,
> 
> just the type of comparison I was going to do now that the Elise will hopefully arrive this or next week. Good to hear of the synergy with the Elise, I was looking at the X20 as well since it was compared to the Vega at 3500USD, which avoided the 9018 trebble issues very well and Yggy the Schiit TOTL R2R multibit. At only 800Euros it seems a steal if you get the advantages of Sabre without the trebble issues and diggy sound (as much) and the advantages of transparancy, soundstage and detail vs. R2R. I was going to compare it to the DAC19 SE and glad to hear that the X20 SE is good as well. Plus the REMOTE!!! That really is almost a must have for being on the couch
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB,
  
 I'm French and using amazon.co.uk is the cheaper way for European customer to get the X20 and have customs paid by the distributor and not the final customer. Even if you have to pay bank fee for £/€ change final price is ~750€ or 579 £ if you live in UK !
  
  
 If you get the Elise, you also have to wait at least a week to 10 day before you get a burned device. EL3N also need long time before singing.
 I hope you will share also your impression on DAC and X20+Elise pairing. (if you can also listen TotalDAC with heaphone this could be great 
  
 I should have said also that I like neutral and natural sound, and do not listen too much electronic music or even modern studio album (i cannot stand reverb, vocoder, dumkit, loops....).
 The comparison with both DAC and Elise bringed me to system synergy as we have to deal with "speaker" sets. Elise pairs well with many headphone but for me the magic is with the T1 and X20 pushed details transparency and natural presentation to another level. INHO, you start to enjoy the music when you stop to listen your headphone, your DAC, your tube and this is exactly at this point that synergy is important.


----------



## hpamdr

pctazhp said:


> This is my promised side-by-side comparison of the T1Gen 2 and HD800S. I have spent a lot of time listening to both headphones.
> 
> For those that don’t want to read all the way through, I’m going to disclose up front that I have decided to keep the T1 and put my HD800S up for sale. They are both amazing headphones, and I can easily see why different people would prefer one over the other, even by wide margins. I believe in deciding between two phones, it really comes down to a gut-level decision that is difficult to describe or even understand. For me, I made my decision primarily on the basis of which phone did I usually find myself listening to longer without being tempted to change back to the other (the T1 won this one) and which phone did I usually listen to for the shortest period of time before wanting to switch back to the other (the T1 also won this one).
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you a lot for your nice review / comparison of T1g2 and HD800S have you tested also the T1g1 ?
  
 The words and all the categrories are a very well chosen specially Detail, Natural reverberation, Emotional involvement. You describe excatly what's make the difference between listening some music and being immersed in the sound szene. This is how the magic happens with Elise and what makes Elise +T1 so special...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @pctazhp....re. your comparison of T1(g2) v HD800S, you are to be commended indeed (on many fronts) for dipping your toes in shark-infested waters, lol!.... I suspect HPs are second only to tubes concerning notoriety in the land of impressions/reviews....well done and THANK YOU - a good all round synopsis, without 'frills' but with heartfelt honesty. And certainly very helpful as a guide for those torn between these two excellent offerings....(the really lucky ones are those who can compare them side-by-side of course, as you have done).
  
 Both of these are clearly top contenders for pairing with Elise, and although my own T1s are gen1, I'm so pleased that my endless plugging of them has proved not to be groundless...Elise + T1s _*definitely*_ = MAGIC!.....


----------



## hypnos1

Very interesting post on the Gustard X20 @hpamdr....certainly a hot contender for me if my Audiolab 8200CD player ever gives up the ghost - I too love the ESS Sabre, lol! And that sure is a great price...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Very interesting post on the Gustard X20 @hpamdr....certainly a hot contender for me if my Audiolab 8200CD player ever gives up the ghost - I too love the ESS Sabre, lol! And that sure is a great price...


 
 2 ESS DACs in dual mono mode (8 parallel DACs per channel) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Gustard X20 has my attention now but how do you sell a gift from your wife (NAD d1050) without getting chased around the block?
  
 I read this post with interest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Gustard_X20_Mods.html


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> Hi WB,
> 
> I'm French and using amazon.co.uk is the cheaper way for European customer to get the X20 and have customs paid by the distributor and not the final customer. Even if you have to pay bank fee for £/€ change final price is ~750€ or 579 £ if you live in UK !
> 
> ...



 


Hi HPAMDR,

I completely agree with you, there is often so much focus on some goal and the equipment you loose sight of enjoying the music. It is the way with good speakers, they should disappear then you did it right. Its harder with headphones unless they are very cumfy, T1, X2 HD800 would likely fit into that category LCDXCs not (they are damn heavy but probably among the best closed hps).

Yeah the delay with the Elise is going to make some comparisons a little tricky, because most of the gear had to go back last week. It's fine and I will likely have more time to burn in the Elise that way and the tubes. Yeah very familiar with the EL series of tubes and how long they take. Told H1 they need ca. 300 to reach the sweatspot but then keep it for close to 10K hrs. Compare that to a 300B. 

Regarding the Total Dac that I would likely avoid until the Gustard X20 has had at least 300hrs of burn in as well. The trick will be going to the client, letting the Elise warm up for a few hours, it could take some time and will require a lot of Vodka drinking. He's great but no way I can go there without some "friendly" drinking. It would be fun to see how the Elise would run as a preamp on a high end system. Lets see what will happen, the Total Dacs I have access to are not all that accessible unless something goes wrong. There was a window but due to delays getting the totaldac in again will be tricky. By the way the totaldac really takes a LONGLONG time to burn in properly and there are special high res music files for burning it in, basically 24/192 and CD of very varied and extremely well recorded music especially piano. Supposedly it allows for better burn in and can affect high end. Who konws but if you spend 6K+ on a DAC then you want to get the most out of it. It becomes pretty esoteric but the esoteric guys if they are good have the best sounding systems IMO. 

For me the TotalDac is currently one of the best DACs out there also much better than the Chord Dave IMO which is about twice as much. Best example of R2R IMO, just a different class and a "Bargain" at the performance and what is inside 0.01% resistors R2R!!! If you get a chance listen to it, especially the t1 tube in a good setup it can sound really close to turntables maybe even tape, its that good. It can go beyong forgetting about a system and adding that magic and ignite the music in the proper setup. I'd love to see that on some vintage 20s Western Electric speakers ala Silbatone. Always the highlight of the HighEnd in Munich IMO.

It was revealing that the x20 got compared to the Vega, so that gave me an idea that it was very well implemented sabre that allows you to forget about the music and what any normal music enthusiast will want unless he becomes a clinical audiophile Comparing that to a TotalDac would be unfair because the Vega is in another class to the TotalDAC although it is quite good implementation of a Sabre. It would be very different, especially the TotalDac t1 tube I could access is as analog as it gets. A TotalDac tube and server comes close to listening to a SME 10 turntable in the right system with a EAR/Yoshino and maybe a benz, black as the night, clean analog. To beat that with analog will require a tape or SME20+. Of course there is still a difference to analog, but you would be hard pressed to be able to recognize it. Maybe if you have super ears. 

For me the other thing I like and what can be great when it is implemented well is the bass boost ala the totaldac. That would be the next wish for a DAC such as the X20 to try to implement well. Great for parties or hiphop, films or soundtracks.

It has become a bit of a ritual to inaugurate a Total Dac with Chronic from Dr. Dre. to see if a system can really feel the bass and has attitude. It makes the Vodka in the glass go Jurassic park and is such a brilliant blasphemy because it is so raw, but the totalDac will somehow magically make the recording better and can handle raw which DACs don't like. Hats off to French engineering there. 

Looking forward to hearing it on the Voxativ at the HighEnd in Munich. Its funny that they usually go SE and the balance craze is less a thing in Highend. You can see the 2015 setup here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcFjYlEJGM

It would be fun to run the Elise on the TotalDac but it would be very close to running the Elise with turntables, which I am sure is done, although I have heard little about this in the threads. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## geetarman49

pctazhp said:


> I also appreciate him telling us about KEXP. And nice to see a band with a great name.


 

 shucks  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...  but while you're handing out some hosanna's, i've been hinting about telling a couple of stories from the past, so ... how about i fill everyone in on _the other side of the story_.  i'll understand if it's tl;dr.
  
 story 1: most, many, all?  of posters of this thread seem to be fans of loreena mckennitt.  a true talent ... with just friends, family & a few trusted associates, she did everything herself in the early days ... no riaa hacks or contracts, no big $ corp boosters ... nada  ... she didn't trust them (look at what they did to _the animals_) -- she had to start her own label (quinlan road) to get her music out.  hell, she wasn't even on the radio. in those days, i couldn't even find her inaugeral cd, _elemental_, anywhere except at sam the record man in downtown t.o. - i think she hand delivered those herself.   at vegas c.e.s. everyone was playing (apart from the usual hi-q demo tracks) pink floyd, fleetwood mac, eagles, ... & the latest breakout, enya.  but at the toronto show (or was it montreal? chicago? i forget) i was the very first exhibitor to put loreena on constant rotation -- no one, & i mean absolutely no one else was playing her.  we had reviewers from stereophile, absolute sound & the other mags enquiring about the artist & cd. by the end of the show, i had given out the details of her cd/label to other distributors & manufacturers in usa, europe, japan, se asia. by the time the next c.e.s. rolled around, everyone had her cd on rotation.  while i can't say that an immense talent like loreena wouldn't have succeeded w/o the assistance of hi-end audio, i think it really helped her out a great deal in those early years.
  
 story 2: anyone who's long in the tooth in these forums or audigon will be familiar with this. let's roll back the clock some 25+yr or so to winter c.e.s. at vegas. hi-end audio at the sahara. on the one side, we had the likes of krell, rowland, audio research, wilson audio, ... ; on the other, aunt peg, seka, marilyn chambers, jamie gillis ...
 seriously, high-end audio and porn in the same venue.
  
 it's the debut show for _mas _- metaxas audio systems from melbourne, oz. kostas metaxas is in fine form - he's cornered two of the largest rooms to display his amps, preamps and large electrostatic spkrs & i'm there with my biz partner to assist bill, the canadian distributor. but kostas has a last minute update with an amp and needs a toolkit.  <now, what follows has been described by others in head-fi who either viewed proceedings from a distance or heard it from others - but i'm telling you exactly how it happened ... _to me_>.   i'm on my way out the door to grab a toolkit from another exhibitor way, way down the hall but before i can get away, a short, swarthy-looking, burly guy asks if _we _can use the washroom. i, initially say 'no' because i know that kostas, like all other exhibitors, uses the washroom for storage space for spare product inventory & the like.  but for some reason, i hesitate and say that i'll check with kostas.  he gives his assent & before i can say boo, the guy's in the washroom with his companion.  but i can't be bothered to interfere because kostas needs to urgently update one of the display amps.  15 min later, i'm back & i see a couple of guys requesting to use the washroom too -- one says to me that '_he's been in there for 10-15 min_' now.  now a small crowd has gathered around; i pound away on the door for a bit, another guy also joins in on the door-pounding & finally, a couple emerge & say 'thanks' before scooting away.  someone in the crowd says '_hey, that's ron jeremy_'     --- well, now you know how i did my share in helping audio get its _prØn, in one of the most (in)famous stories of hi-end audio._


----------



## geetarman49

@ *pctazhp   --  *oops, forgot to thank you for a well-crafted comparo .... but like UT, i prefer hd800 for comfort --- probably because i wear glasses.


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> Hi WB,
> 
> I'm French and using amazon.co.uk is the cheaper way for European customer to get the X20 and have customs paid by the distributor and not the final customer. Even if you have to pay bank fee for £/€ change final price is ~750€ or 579 £ if you live in UK !
> 
> ...



 


Hi one thing I forgot to ask you, did you replace the circuit breaker with a high end one, preferably gold instead of rhodium. Should cost 30Euros and is the first thing to do for the X20. Seems the circuit breaker is a bottle neck.

Cheers
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

Yessir, it's a Utopia system. I did not get in touch with them, I am pretty sure they would have done the same with me, make me feel guilty haha
  
 I have plans to get rid of Focal from my life, there is a lot of it but I will slowly transition, this is inevitable after this 2nd time.
  
 Thanks once again!!!!
  
 LR
  
 Quote:


wb2016 said:


> Ah, thank god for Italian friendliness. Even in the world of Focal it exists. I guess you have a Utopia from the problems you mentioned. Nice speakers less so the customer support. Yes, we can pull out all the stereotypes of French being rude and unhelpful, especially to American or German males, but it seems to be so fitting, especially you experience with the Italians. It will be a funny story once you exchanged them and your wallet recovers believe me.
> 
> Here is where installers with connections really can help, but honestly some manufacturers have little discount and bad customer care that even installers tell their clients to order the speakers themselves or try to stear them in another direction.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

Recently released Santana IV album in high resolution by HDTracks in 24-48, I am loving it


----------



## geetarman49

wb2016 said:


> hpamdr said:
> 
> 
> > Hi WB,
> ...


 
  
 i have heard this before about rhodium-coated contacts sounding bad ... and i am just as guilty as anyone else concerning parroting this 'info' ... but did you actually get a chance to try this as a blind-test comparo?  before anyone gets in a snit about sound-sciences, this is just an actual query and nothing else is implied.
  


lord raven said:


>


 
 LR, when you write text above the quote box ---  & if someone else wants to quote you, then nothing shows up ... as per this example.
  
  
 you wrote: "Yessir, it's a Utopia system. I did not get in touch with them, I am pretty sure they would have done the same with me, make me feel guilty haha
  
 I have plans to get rid of Focal from my life, there is a lot of it but I will slowly transition, this is inevitable after this 2nd time."
  
 if you think  treat their customers with a wave of their hand, look at how they treated their usa distributor; let's call them bill & bob -- again, this goes back more than 2 decades.  for many years, these 2 guys travelled the usa, demo-ing the spkrs & building up a hard-earned cadre of dealers.  then came the big c.e.s. & they said you guys set it up and we'll be there too.  after the first nite of the show, they had an end of day pow-wow where they informed bill & bob that they were out and thank you but we'll build a new co. now to distribute in the usa.  no buyout, no compensation ... sayonara.     so you want to be in hi-end audio biz? ... assume the position!


----------



## geetarman49

btw, forgot to add that kostas metaxas was the first person to play tori amos in usa.  he had an autographed copy from the cd release party in melbourne that was held a wk before vegas c.e.s.   the cd wasn't released in north america or europe at the time; tori was an unknown entity.  & by the end of the show, autographed cd was ... gone ... snatched by a vegas low-life.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm sure by the next Vegas CES, with the impending reviews from new owners, Elise will no longer be an unknown entity. 
  
 Elise sounds really really good with these headphones.


----------



## geetarman49

i don't see hd800 amongst them


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> i don't see hd800 amongst them


 

 I already have a hard time deciding which headphones to use daily. Having another HD800 will really be my nightmare.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> I already have a hard time deciding which headphones to use daily. Having another HD800 will really be my nightmare.


 

 haha ... & having no elise means i must play in somebody else's sandbox.
 srm-007tA and srm-727A are beckoning ...


----------



## UntilThen

> Originally Posted by *Lord Raven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yessir, it's a Utopia system. I did not get in touch with them, I am pretty sure they would have done the same with me, make me feel guilty haha
> 
> ...


 
 You need to get rid of the Focals from your life and replace it with Dynaudios. Your ears will thank you for it. Besides your body will move with the music as you drive. 
  
 Like this


----------



## connieflyer

Finally made up my mind on headphones, I really liked the Beyer T1 version 1, but after the left driver started to sound muddy, read other reviews with the same problem, got refund from Amazon, toss up between Beyer T1 ver 2 and Senn 800 original, after exhaustive reading decided to stay with the Sennheiser sound. Price on new Beyer and Senn was about the same so will know in awhile if I did good or keep the Senn 700's wait for Elise and then see how things shake out.  Thanks to those who offered advice on this.  If I had just a littttttllllle bit more cash would have got both.  Retirement is not conducive to over spending.......


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> You need to get rid of the Focals from your life and replace it with Dynaudios. Your ears will thank you for it. Besides your body will move with the music as you drive.
> 
> Like this


 
  
  
 AWESOME, I am thinking Audiofrog...  Or HAT Hybrid Audio Technology!!!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Finally made up my mind on headphones, I really liked the Beyer T1 version 1, but after the left driver started to sound muddy, read other reviews with the same problem, got refund from Amazon, toss up between Beyer T1 ver 2 and Senn 800 original, after exhaustive reading decided to stay with the Sennheiser sound. Price on new Beyer and Senn was about the same so will know in awhile if I did good or keep the Senn 700's wait for Elise and then see how things shake out.  Thanks to those who offered advice on this.  If I had just a littttttllllle bit more cash would have got both.  Retirement is not conducive to over spending.......


 
 You can't go wrong. You are joining the Elise club which entitles you to a truly amazing amp and membership in the best thread on HeadFi )))


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 My Elise is used almost exclusively as a preamp with great results. As far as I know, JV plays records when using his Elise.
  
 Did not quite understand what you wrote about burn in times for the amp and tubes, but the Elise needs around 150 hours, and some of the tubes I use (EL3N) need maybe 400 hours.
  
 A long time ago I used to buy more expensive equipment, but I have now come to the conclusion that you can get excellent sound with carefully chosen budget priced components and tubes.


----------



## DavidA

@mordy, If you think the Elise is a budget amp then I like your definition of "budget"


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @mordy, If you think the Elise is a budget amp then I like your definition of "budget"


 

 There were quite a few who bought at the introductory price of $499, including mordy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Then it went to $649 and now $699.
  
 A lot cheaper than it is now.


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> There were quite a few who bought at the introductory price of $499, including mordy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you still feel that its a good amp at the current price of $700?  For me with shipping it would end up around $800, still a good deal? 
  
 Another question is what is the output impedance of the Elise?  I couldn't find it on the Feliks site.


----------



## hpamdr

> Hi one thing I forgot to ask you, did you replace the circuit breaker with a high end one, preferably gold instead of rhodium. Should cost 30Euros and is the first thing to do for the X20. Seems the circuit breaker is a bottle neck.
> 
> Cheers
> WB


 
 I burned the X20 full stock !
 After I just changed to have non "fuse" plain copper.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I did not changed the Elise fuse (but think it is a bit over sized). I use gold fuse on my Magnepan (Medium/High) protection.
  
 About burning, I used a looping / ramdom playlist with many bitrate format 44.1/48 multiples and DSD, some pink noise, and lot of piano and organ music, intimist pop or a capela song. This is how my dealer do burning for demo dac.
  
 Probably Tube output or R2R with many resistor needs a physical stress during burning, IMHO it is less important for X20.

 I'm not a bass boost/expand lover (probably why i do not think the 5998 is the best tube wirh EL3N) with Elise.

 I do not use the Elise as a preamp as I'm listening with headphone not at the same place of my main speaker system....


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> Do you still feel that its a good amp at the current price of $700?  For me with shipping it would end up around $800, still a good deal?
> 
> Another question is what is the output impedance of the Elise?  I couldn't find it on the Feliks site.


 
  
 I think I read somewhere that the output impedance is 50 ohms.


----------



## WB2016

geetarman49 said:


> i have heard this before about rhodium-coated contacts sounding bad ... and i am just as guilty as anyone else concerning parroting this 'info' ... but did you actually get a chance to try this as a blind-test comparo?  before anyone gets in a snit about sound-sciences, this is just an actual query and nothing else is implied.
> 
> LR, when you write text above the quote box ---  & if someone else wants to quote you, then nothing shows up ... as per this example.
> 
> ...



 


I am not of the opinion the rhodium has to sound bad, but rhodium and less so silver have a tendency to impart a bit of brightness, clarity and sometimes some edginess. Copper and Gold more so tend to give a warmth, naturalness, sometimes a bit of darkness. I like the sound of gold
Both rhodium and gold can have their place depending on the system and equipment you are using it with.

The Sabre dacs even the best tend to be bright and you have to watch the trebble and avoid a diggy sound, which is not helped by rhodium. In some tube amps instead rhodium can be beneficial. You can play with it yourself hifi fuses are inexpensive, they cost around 20-30 Euros and make more of a diference than cable connectors IMO, but also here everything has an effect. My opinion is that if you can spend 25€ on something that is currently the bottleneck of your system you are one lucky SOB in hifi. Worst thing that will happen is that you have a spare fuse You can also easily see how type of metal influences a system, what is not to like.

Yeah did some AB comparisons, which is pretty easy, but best done with two people one changing one remaining in the sweetspot for speakers. With headphones its easier

Regarding Focal as a company, yeah No Comment. They produce fine hifi, car stereo equipment, own Naim, etc. But they are run in the not so pleasant French corporate way while considering themselves the best. This will continue until people stop running to them. Also the look of the Optima is just iconic A real shame, but its funny how they seem to enjoy the position and superiority vibe, which may even help in getting some high end customers through snobism, but eventually there will be new competitors and people will remember the BS. Unfortunately they are very good at business, products and are diversified and such behavior will not end them.

Regarding making a living in highend. Yeah its really tough, never put all your cards on one bet. A lot of the greatest are there for the passion but will get taken advantage of by investors. See D'Agostini, which for me at least has turned into a beautiful FXXXk You story of the highest caliber with Krell.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Concur, 

the EL series acording to recording industry people needs 300hrs+ 
The whole discussion was regarding the more esoteric burning in vs. greynoise. Greynoise is fround upon in some highend circles.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> @mordy, If you think the Elise is a budget amp then I like your definition of "budget"



 


Yeah, 
Definition of budget: Appropriate for a restricted budget; inexpensive: a budget car; budget meals.

So fits very well

WB


----------



## DavidA

wb2016 said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > @mordy, If you think the Elise is a budget amp then I like your definition of "budget"
> ...


 

 But is it a good value at the current price of $700 or almost $800 if you include shipping to Hawaii?


----------



## WB2016

hpamdr said:


> I burned the X20 full stock !
> After I just changed to have non "fuse" plain copper.
> 
> 
> ...



 


Just plain copper, you like to add excitement to your gear Brave man. (For others: That is bridging the fuse with copper foil, or wire = no fuse)

Sounds like you did some modding already, what were your experiences?

Heard the X20 does need about 300hrs but there is less need for punishing burn in as some call it for sure. Not a fan of greynoise/pinknoise for burnign in but that regime sounds good. Never was a fan of quick burn in although that is sometimes needed for burn in for clients. If I have gear burning in at home, for myself or client cannot have pinknoise unless it is really needed. Pinknoise burnin seems to give an edgier character to some gear IMO.

95% of bass boost I have heard sounds bad, its hard to do it right. But having it is a cool feature. Strangely a large portion of the total dacs have that option although it is quite a bit extra. The implementation of the bass boost there is among the best and depending on the music and use quite fun. It adds something to all the music with no artificialness. Also sometimes bassboost can come in handy if you have less efficient subs in an efficient system.

I am always curious to throw a "budget" component into a system to see how it holds up and where there are issues, it would be unfair to say the least. However heard the preout is good. When I get the chance, which is unfortunately rarely I like to do things that throw systems for a loop and change how you perceive it. I like doing that but once I have a system I like its more leave and forget, or ideally leave and the system disappears.

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> But is it a good value at the current price of $700 or almost $800 if you include shipping to Hawaii?


 

 I definitely think so. $499 is an introductory price and unsustainable. At $700, it's still incredible value because I have heard Woo Audio Wa2 and Wa6se and I prefer what I hear from Elise.
  
 Elise has a fast transient response, dynamic and has the right touch of tube amp goodness without being overly warm and lush. I know these traits are influence by tubes used too but fundamentally, Elise sounds like a polished performer. It's an engaging and euphonic tone.
  
 Shipping to Australia is a hefty $120 but now that I have live with the amp for 6 months, I reckon it's all worth it.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, thanks for your opinion, guess I'll do a little more research on the Elise, I almost went for the Liquid Glass but decided at the last minute that Cavalli might just come out with something better down the line.


----------



## UntilThen

@DavidA my pleasure. Best of luck to your deliberations. 
  
 I was at Head-fi Can Jam 6 in Sydney several months ago. There were about 15 of us in a big room with enough good gear to make me stay the whole day. I heard Stax SR-009, 007 with Blue Hawaii, Violectric V281, Woo Audio Wa2, Wa6se, Audio Gd Series 6, a multitude of headphones, not the least HD800, HD800S, T1 black anniversary edition, AKG K812, HD700, HE500, AKG 702, etc, Yggy DAC, Metrum Acoustics Hex, Chord Mojo, etc. I had a field day basically. Really good sound for such a small group.
  
 I came away from that meet feeling satisfied with Elise and my headphones. She did not seem out of place in that esteemed company. I am very content with this setup now and find myself listening to music rather than craving more upgrades.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> AWESOME, I am thinking Audiofrog...  Or HAT Hybrid Audio Technology!!!!!!


 

 LR stop pouring money into car audio. Head-fi cost less, no need to sound deadened car doors and roof and turn your car into a Tiger tank.... and sounds better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ... and stop lusting after these HAT hybrid.


----------



## DecentLevi

I've been enjoying the Elise lately, but sorry folks, I've been deeply backed up with a home business to log-in here much.
  
 It seems I've been getting fairly peaky, harsh highs lately from the Elise. I've had to reduce the treble by a couple decibels all day, and it's been this way on two different headphones and with multiple recordings. Would anyone say this is just a normal part of the burn in process? Or maybe it's because I've been burning it in with four power tubes (the transformer is always stone cold).
  
 Oh also @hypnos1 you asked what I've got stashed away that's more valuable than the Elise? It may sound a bit strange but here it goes:
 Rare recordings on video tape of an extinct TV show called AMP: An electronic music video show from 20 years ago which used to air late night on MTV that had otherworldly good permutations of abstract imagery synced to electronic music, done in such a way that it forever inspired the course of my life. To me, it's worth more than any amount of rubies and diamonds.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi  I would suggest you try conventional power tubes and see if that eliminates your peaky treble. Try EL3N with GE 6AS7GA. 
  
 I've not tried quad 6J5 before so can't comment on that.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> LR stop pouring money into car audio. Head-fi cost less, no need to sound deadened car doors and roof and turn your car into a Tiger tank.... and sounds better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I get the car audio thing. Its a first person driving game with dolby 4.1 suround sound It clears your mind and also is a good equalizer to headphones. For me the only "bad" thing about hps is the lack of gut churning bass, that makes all the water molecules in your body dance,

That you can do in a car. Its also far easier to leave the scene of a bass crime with a car than when you are at home and everyone knows where to find you, having a ground shaking bass is a whole lot riskier then.

WB


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is the boot of my car with a 41 litres enclosure for a 12" Morel Ultimo subwoofer but I have enough of ground shaking bass. I rather have the T1 bass now.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks UT, I'll try that.
  
 And since I've mentioned about the TV show AMP, I thought it wouldn't be fitting not to post an example. Here is a compilation of some of the best-of the abstract electronic music video show AMP. Take note this is a rip of 20 year old video tapes so the quality suffers, though I had manually re-synced some of it with higher quality audio
 http://www.veoh.com/watch/v95207799xgQ9WEQH


----------



## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> I've been enjoying the Elise lately, but sorry folks, I've been deeply backed up with a home business to log-in here much.
> 
> It seems I've been getting fairly peaky, harsh highs lately from the Elise. I've had to reduce the treble by a couple decibels all day, and it's been this way on two different headphones and with multiple recordings. Would anyone say this is just a normal part of the burn in process? Or maybe it's because I've been burning it in with four power tubes (the transformer is always stone cold).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL,
  
 I would suggest you to try Elise with stock tubes driver / power let burn half an hour without music but headphone plugged. And start listening if you still have harsh high your Elsie have probably an issue. You will have to contact F.A. for customer service...


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> @UntilThen, thanks for your opinion, guess I'll do a little more research on the Elise, I almost went for the Liquid Glass but decided at the last minute that Cavalli might just come out with something better down the line.


 
 David. I have followed you on other threads and know that you have extensive knowledge and experience with headphones. I have often wondered what you would think of the Elise. @UntilThen and others here will give you very good advice.
  
 I don't have a long history of experience with headphones, but had decades of experience in the past as an audiophile. I strongly believe that the Elise-T1 combination (or combined with other good headphones) is the best "bargain" I've ever experienced in audio. I'm really hoping you will join our club)))


----------



## mordy

Hi DavidA,
  
 You are asking me if an Elise is worth the money, spending some $800 to buy it. This is a hard question to answer not knowing your taste and preferences, let alone how much you are willing to spend. And you have to be prepared to spend more money on tubes as well.
  
 I'll just present some thoughts - maybe it will be helpful.
  
 Some 6--7 years ago I bought my first tube amp - a Little Dot MarkIII. It cost around $240 or so. It opened up a new world in sound to me, and over the years I kept learning about tubes and how to modify the amp for better sound. It got better and better. At every stage I was happy with it, but then somebody came up with something new, and changing it made it better sounding again.  After a couple of years we reached what was called the "end game" for this amp. We used driver tubes that nobody had heard of before, and power tubes rated 2.5 times the current draw the amp was designed for, using external power.
  
 Over the years I figured out which members on the Little Dot forum had the same taste in sound as me, and when hypnos 1 started to sing the praises of the Elise, claiming that it was far superior to the modded LD MKIII, I knew that I could believe it.
  
 After a lot of deliberation I ordered an Elise and had to wait some 6(!) months for it to arrive. Once I listened to it I wrote "that there is no going back." It was just so much better. (My MKIII has been collecting dust since.) In the past year and a half the collective members on the Elise thread have taken it to new heights.
  
 Those of us who have been able to compare the Elise to other well known, and at times considerably more expensive amps, feel that it can hold it's own very well and outperforms many of the well known contenders.
  
 In order to extract more performance from the Elise you will have to buy other tubes than the stock tubes (although the stock tubes are quite nice). Luckily, there are inexpensive alternatives that are excellent.
  
 Being a very flexible amp for tube rolling, I feel that it is safe to say that anybody should be able to find the right combination of tubes to suit their equipment and taste. Several people have reached a level of listening satisfaction with the Elise that they do not feel the need to try new tubes.
  
 Personally, I found the Elise sound addictive, leading to much more music listening than ever before, constantly discovering new things in familiar recordings ( and sleep deprivation lol ).
  
 As stated, I do not have much experience with other amps, but based on my personal impressions and those of others that have compared it to different amps, I can really recommend the Elise  -  easily the best audio purchase I have made.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> As stated, I do not have much experience with other amps, but based on my personal impressions and those of others that have compared it to different amps, I can really recommend the Elise  -  easily the best audio purchase I have made.


 
  Mordy:  Great post!


----------



## geetarman49

wb2016 said:


> Quote:...
> Regarding making a living in highend. Yeah its really tough, never put all your cards on one bet. A lot of the greatest are there for the passion but will get taken advantage of by investors. See D'Agostini, which for me at least has turned into a beautiful FXXXk You story of the highest caliber with Krell.
> 
> Cheers
> WB


 
 true enough, WB.  i, for one, am really glad that dan has resurrected himself with his signature series (even tho i hate the aesthetics) but there was a certain amt of hubris that led to the loss of krell (are they even taken seriously as hi-end anymore?) - the same could be said of the late harry pearson and the absolute sound.  the ambition to expand is not entirely a bad thing, but i hope that aspect never enters the dna of lukasz and family.  may elise production remain limited; the quality remain high; the price remain fair; and the interminable wait to be endured by all.


----------



## pctazhp

Dan D'Agostini and Krell certainly were big names in high end audio back in the glory days of Harry Pearson and The Absolute Sound. I always understood that the name "Krell" came from the 1956 movie "Forbidden Planet" which unfortunately I'm old enough to remember ))
  
 I agree with you about your wishes for Feliks Audio.


----------



## DavidA

Wow, thanks to all for the follow up everyone
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm going to spend a little more time in this thread, its like a masters class in experimentation and imagination with so many different tubes.  The one thing that I didn't see or have not come across yet thru the few pages of this thread is warranty repairs which is a good thing since sending the Elise back is going to cost an arm and part of a leg for me.
  
 I really don't have a taste or preference, I just like different headphones for their own unique sound signatures (probably why I have so many).  I took a trip to Japan last year and got to hear some really nice gear a friends house and it got me a little more excited again to try something new.  I haven't bought a headphone, DAC or amp in almost 5 months because I was/am quite satisfied with the way my system sounds but while reading through the various thread there is so much of "this or that made such a huge difference" that I've dismissed most of it to new toy syndrome but there were a few that seemed live up to some of the hype, one of them being the Elise.
  
 Thanks again for all your insights and I just may become a member of the Elise club


----------



## pctazhp

Several months ago I posted my favorite all-time video Playing For Change - Stand By Me. This is a live concert version.
  
 For those who may think I was unfair to the HD800S in my comparison, I still "stand by"  all I said, but will admit this video sounds very sweet on the 800. My wife will absolutely kill me and I will probably be consulting a bankruptcy attorney if I end up keeping both!!!
  
 Edit:  A quote from the YouTube publisher of this video: "There are moments when music transcends the darkness and shows us the light. This is one of those moments."


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, nice rendition of stand by me, really enjoyed it straight from headphone output of computer with RS2e


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> @pctazhp, nice rendition of stand by me, really enjoyed it straight from headphone output of computer with RS2e


 
 Thanks David. I listened to it again, this time with the T1. I think I will be able to save my marriage and avoid bankruptcy )))


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> But is it a good value at the current price of $700 or almost $800 if you include shipping to Hawaii?



 


I would assume for up to $1000 it would be a great deal. Maybe see if there are better shipping options, $100 seems quite high. I still have not received mine so I cannot say until it has burned in.

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> @DavidA my pleasure. Best of luck to your deliberations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I think that is the real goal, the eternal search for perfection is in itself interesting and if you are developing something new or producing music it is necessary, but in enjoying music it can get in the way. So much of that becomes a form of a diXK meassuring contest and why males tend to obsess about that and females much much less 

Enjoy the music let your gear disappear and tune out. Not easy to do. 

Cheers WB


----------



## DavidA

wb2016 said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > But is it a good value at the current price of $700 or almost $800 if you include shipping to Hawaii?
> ...


 

 Hi WB, shipping to Hawaii/Alaska is crap, many on-line merchants give free shipping to anywhere but Hawaii and Alaska, even on ebay many say "does not ship to H or A"
  
 When I bought the K7XX it took just over a month to get here, even those who were located much further away and in foreign countries were getting faster delivery.


----------



## DavidA

wb2016 said:


> I think that is the real goal, the eternal search for perfection is in itself interesting and if you are developing something new or producing music it is necessary, but in enjoying music it can get in the way. So much of that becomes a form of a diXK meassuring contest and why males tend to obsess about that and females much much less
> 
> Enjoy the music let your gear disappear and tune out. Not easy to do.
> 
> Cheers WB


 
 I'm not searching for perfection, well at least I don't think I am, more a search of differences, hearing a song on a Grado will be very different from LCD-2, they each present the song in their own way.  The search for the amp is trying to get my listening table cleaned up a little, no space for a couple of glasses of wine on it.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> This is the boot of my car with a 41 litres enclosure for a 12" Morel Ultimo subwoofer but I have enough of ground shaking bass. I rather have the T1 bass now.



 


Well I used to like to have both. It keeps things in balance if you don't have it someplace you miss it. Currently don't have a sub in my car. Its a company car, nough said. Very nice and free but not sure if they would approve me installing a sub....

However I either mess around with friends systems or client's to get the bass. The other day I went to a dub party with quite a good Soundsystem (Speaker setup for Reggae) with 24" woofers and around 20,000 watts 3m high by almost 10m long, that gave me my bass fix for a while Dirty and raw, you need some serious earplugs to get close, but its a lot of fun to just have your water molecules shaken through. Its like a full full body massage all the way down to your cerebral fluid. Was a lot of fun and I should do that more often than once a year. Don't do that without good ear protection though. The raw aspect of it actually really appealed to me, old technics, 70s records and face flapping bass. 

Now I can go back to auditioning headphones without complaining about the bass as much. 

Nice setup by the way. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

decentlevi said:


> Thanks UT, I'll try that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


That stuff is great, saw that in clubs never knew that was actually on MTV. If you have more would be keen to see it. Reminds me of many a long weekend in LA and SF. 

Thanks for sharing
WB


----------



## WB2016

geetarman49 said:


> true enough, WB.  i, for one, am really glad that dan has resurrected himself with his signature series (even tho i hate the aesthetics) but there was a certain amt of hubris that led to the loss of krell (are they even taken seriously as hi-end anymore?) - the same could be said of the late harry pearson and the absolute sound.  the ambition to expand is not entirely a bad thing, but i hope that aspect never enters the dna of lukasz and family.  may elise production remain limited; the quality remain high; the price remain fair; and the interminable wait to be endured by all.



 



Well its the jackals who see a crazy dreamer and think they can highjack the dream he/she created and profit from it. Lets see what happens to apple in 10 years, but Dan is really a great hear warming story. HP same BS in green.

Regarding the look of the amps, I kind of like it, but I am a sucker for copper, both pure and oxidized, and it is much more acceptable to females. Actually I also like it because it is so far away from the Krell industrial look and also changing the look is truely reinventing yourself. Probably one of the best SS out there ATM, truely great.

Its not if you get knocked down its how fast you get back up when your out. Few things more satisfying than seeing your foes self destruct. And a relatively classy way to win with elegance. Really one of those heart warming stories and to totally reinvent yourself at that age. Hats off Dan I would support him if they weren't that bloody expensive. However my ex boss has sold a few setups of DD'A at almost cost or even slightly below out of respect for Dan, which I really respect him for. 

I'd like to hear a DD'A on a Voxativ setup but so far have only seen them with tubes.

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> I'm not searching for perfection, well at least I don't think I am, more a search of differences, hearing a song on a Grado will be very different from LCD-2, they each present the song in their own way.  The search for the amp is trying to get my listening table cleaned up a little, no space for a couple of glasses of wine on it.


 

 David, any preference on your multitude of headphones? Or are you like me, love them all.  I only have 3 that I use mainly now. I've sold off the DT880 Pro and M50x. The Sennheiser Momentum and PSB M4U2 are somewhere in the corner. Elise works beautifully with the T1, HE560 and HD650. The HiFiman has been on my head for the last 2 days.


----------



## hypnos1

Quote:Originally Posted by *WB2016*


 The Sabre dacs even the best tend to be bright and you have to watch the trebble and avoid a diggy sound, which is not helped by rhodium. In some tube amps instead rhodium can be beneficial. You can play with it yourself hifi fuses are inexpensive, they cost around 20-30 Euros and make more of a diference than cable connectors IMO, but also here everything has an effect. My opinion is that if you can spend 25€ on something that is currently the bottleneck of your system you are one lucky SOB in hifi. Worst thing that will happen is that you have a spare fuse You can also easily see how type of metal influences a system, what is not to like.

 Cheers
 WB
  
 Hi WB.
  
 'Audiophile' fuses certainly are a (yet another!) bone of contention, but I personally tend to agree with what you say. I suppose the caveat must be assuming the quality upstream is not too cruddy in the first place, lol! This is where the _*cumulative *_benefits principle comes into play, of course...from the actual mains electricity supply right through to final transducer.
  
*Individual* upgrades in just certain parts of the system no doubt may bring only _marginal _gains, so I believe it really does pay dividends to look closely along the entire path of electron flow...hence the case for scrutiny of even the 'humble' fuse! - which IMHO makes perfect sense, given the fact that it is _electricity_ that carries the sound signal through _many_ different components, lol!
  
 And so yes, as you imply, the different metals used throughout a system _*must*_ therefore impart a significant influence on the final sound. I'm quite convinced that my own experiences with using high quality wire when adapting tubes different to stock config'n have been more noticeable than one might expect due to my attempts to provide the system with as 'clean' an electricity supply as I possibly can to all associated equipment- within reason, that is! - and then attention paid to the quality of interconnects etc. (pure silver, where possible).
  
 With this as a base, I found discernible differences in 'just' changing the wires used in the aforementioned tube adapting...ie. pure silver by itself did indeed heighten the 'edginess' of treble-susceptible elements elsewhere... eg. the Siemens C3g'S' drivers coupled with Beyer T1s. By adding some single-crystal copper wire to the silver immediately 'tamed' this effect - to a degree that took me by surprise, given the relatively small amounts concerned in relation to the rest of the system! And in addition, provided greater bass extension and impact, along with more detail that extended up into the mids. In some cases I also experimented with adding a little 24K gold to the silver/copper combo, which seemed to 'smooth' the whole process into a wonderful synergy.
  
 Thus, I am a firm believer in paying attention to the 'smallest' elements in one's system, along with the more obvious (larger!) ones...this is when I personally believe we are much more likely to achieve _*overall*_ synergy, and that much sought-after quality of a sound we can simply immerse - and _*lose*_ - ourselves in, without  a single critical/analytical moment to disrupt our pure pleasure and enjoyment...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...CHEERS!!...
  
 ps. Sorry for any indigestion folks!....
  
 CJ
  
  
  


davida said:


> Wow, thanks to all for the follow up everyone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DavidA.
  
 WELCOME to the thread!
  
 The guys have already done a marvellous job of imparting Elise's qualities in such a way as to (hopefully!) reassure you as to her credentials. I don't think I can add much else - especially as I see there are TEN more posts while writing my reply to WB, of which I'm sure at least some are directed at yourself, lol!
  
 I will just say that I do indeed hope you decide to join our club...if only to hear your impressions with all those amazing cans of yours LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks @WB2016 . Perhaps I should go and sit in the car now and turn up the volume at 5:30am and wake up all the neighbors with some deep bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I created a video of the photos my installer send me. That's my car audio. Sorry for the digression.


----------



## Oskari

davida said:


> Hi WB, shipping to Hawaii/Alaska is crap, many on-line merchants give free shipping to anywhere but Hawaii and Alaska, even on ebay many say "does not ship to H or A"
> 
> When I bought the K7XX it took just over a month to get here, even those who were located much further away and in foreign countries were getting faster delivery.




David, in this case you are in a foreign country far away. Shipping within Europe is already $40. What's the difference? A few beers...



[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/fM3r7Xr3grU[/VIDEO]


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi WB.
> 
> 'Audiophile' fuses certainly are a (yet another!) bone of contention, but I personally tend to agree with what you say. I suppose the caveat must be assuming the quality upstream is not too cruddy in the first place, lol! This is where the _*cumulative *_benefits principle comes into play, of course...from the actual mains electricity supply right through to final transducer.
> 
> ...



 


Yup fully agree, and for $20 getting a ultra purity silver gold hifi fuse is an easy fix. Fuses are really crappy metal and often the weakpoint in a chain. Easy fix worth playing. The real highenders say that the power feeds the source so its even more important because it affects all the equipment. First the source directly and then this is continuosly propegated down the line. Ensuring phase is essential and preferably some form of line conditioning is also a very wise step.

The benefit of car audio is that it is all fed from DC from a battery, whereas almost all Hifi is AC with all its flaws. That is/was??? (not been in car audio for a long time) it will sound really good for very little money.

Take Care,
WB


----------



## connieflyer

I sent a 4 pound box of books from Michigan to a friend in New Zealand took seven days and cost me $75.00


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 I don't hear much difference between different cables. Are you saying that putting in a different fuse will make more of a difference?


----------



## geetarman49

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> I don't hear much difference between different cables. Are you saying that putting in a different fuse will make more of a difference?


 
  
 i think we are not all equal; i, for one, subscribe to the notion that some of us are rather more ... _sensitive _.. to differences in cable materiel, topology, etc.  but i'm also of the belief that many of us (& i don't exclude myself from this camp) can be easily fooled into thinking that _a _is better than _b_.   & then there are those who possess a rather singular ability ... to wit, arthur b. lintgen
  
 <edit> i doubt that i could hear the difference between fuses --- mind you, at the current price of ~ 10usd, it wouldn't be that much of a burden to try a gold hi-fi tuning fuse instead of the bog std commercial one in my dac.


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> I sent a 4 pound box of books from Michigan to a friend in New Zealand took seven days and cost me $75.00



 


Ouch. Do they still have ground/freight? Takes 4 weeks or so but is far less exensive for heavy stuff.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

geetarman49 said:


> i think we are not all equal; i, for one, subscribe to the notion that some of us are rather more ... _sensitive _.. to differences in cable materiel, topology, etc.  but i'm also of the belief that many of us (& i don't exclude myself from this camp) can be easily fooled into thinking that _a _is better than _b_.   & then there are those who possess a rather singular ability ... to wit, arthur b. lintgen



 


Well there is hearing and sensing? There is dicussions about abx testing and not being able to hear the difference but one choice will make you happy the other one wont. Classical evaluation phallacy and comes down to issues between implicit and explicit processing in psychology (among other things). Basically the vast vast portion of processing and assessing is done without conscious awareness unless you have the opportunity and the resources to do so. (see for example MODE model, Fazio 1990 or read some basics by Greenwald on implicit processing if you want) It will still affect you but often you will not be aware of it unless you put the effort in and sometimes you will not be aware consciously of the effect.

But I degress into Psychology, Philosophy and a discussion of awareness and neurocognition....

Actually most people can hear the differences between cables it often just takes some training as with anything to notice the things that are good, e.g. wine, music, paintings, anything.

A good start I tell everyone is doing the Philips Golden Ears. Its free and will really bring your ears to another level and give you an understanding and examples of brightness, trebble, sampling rates, artifacts, jitter, etc. 

https://www.goldenears.philips.com

The issue with being able to hear or not is a bit mute IMO Pun intended. It is helpful to understand (thus being told by the system) what is not working and fix it, but not getting stuck in the chase for elussive goals that have no effect on how you feel. If you feel totally happy its great. No problems. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Its only when you feel you are missing something and can seperate this from upgrade-ahitis disease that you might look into upgading but if you truely feel the music at any level, stop and enjoy. Find a balance between training and letting go too

Or as a somilier friend of mine said he sometimes longs for tthe dayss he could drink 4-8€ wine. In Europe you can get decent wine for that price unless you developed a refined palate. At the same time he can sense much more and find out what he really likes and stears in the right direction, especially with food and avoiding overpriced stuff. He can find some extraordinary bottles of wine for 15€ and can fully savior them but he is tortured at most peoples home when invited for dinner (exageration).

Long story short you will be able to tell the difference between a 50cent cable and a 100dollar cable. For a fuse, its some of the worst material in audio and then TOTL hifi fuses are 1cm of excellent connection that can make a noticable difference, not huge but its reduction of edginess, brightness and cleanliness. Subtle but what else isn'T in audio. 

Its more akin to painting or setting the picture seettings on your TV. You may not be able to tell a difference but with some experience you will tell if it is better or worse. Then you get it to were you are happy and hopefully not start changing settings every five minutes 

As H1 said most people have issue with their power. Did you check the phase on your plugs and on the equipment. Super cheap first most fundamental important thing to do. Phase tester is a few bucks. If phase is off then there is something off in your system you will just feel it. When the power is OK start with the fuse. Then the source, the output e.g. speakers, from there you match the rest based on the output or better the sound you want. This includes a fun interplay of all components, tubes, cables, amps, dacsound, isolation, mods, esoterics, etc. That is the usual way, but here since the Elise is a component that gives you joy people play with it more to achieve a balance, which is unorthodox but seemingly works well We'll see. 

Hope that helps, since I am waiting a bit more anxious than I''d like to admit to hear from Lukasz I am spending way too mucch time on Headfi. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> David, any preference on your multitude of headphones? Or are you like me, love them all.  I only have 3 that I use mainly now. I've sold off the DT880 Pro and M50x. The Sennheiser Momentum and PSB M4U2 are somewhere in the corner. Elise works beautifully with the T1, HE560 and HD650. The HiFiman has been on my head for the last 2 days.


 
 If I had to pick favorites: HD-700, TH-600, HD-650


hypnos1 said:


> Hi DavidA.
> 
> WELCOME to the thread!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the welcome


oskari said:


> David, in this case you are in a foreign country far away. Shipping within Europe is already $40. What's the difference? A few beers...


 
 I see your point, still a little upset 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since those that live on continental US get free shipping from a lot of vendors while those in Alaska and Hawaii are paying and its usually air rates which can get really high, or worst is "don't ship to H or A"


----------



## connieflyer

wb2016 said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > I sent a 4 pound box of books from Michigan to a friend in New Zealand took seven days and cost me $75.00
> ...


 

 Last I checked no bridge from U.S. to New Zealand.


----------



## connieflyer

If you are going audiophile and want good fuses, why spend only $20 on a gold fuse when you can get one of these for only $120?   http://www.partsconnexion.com/fuse_syn-blk_main.html?utm_source=getresponse&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1express&utm_content=pcX%E2%80%99s+April+CAP-apalooza+Event+-+20%25+Off+ALL+Brands+of+Film+%26+Electrolytic+Capacitors%3B+60%25+Off+All+PLITRON+Power%2C+Output+%26+Balanced+Isolation+X-Formers+-+267+pcs%3B+50%25+to+67%25+Off+TUBE+TREASURE+CHEST+-+Dozens+Added. 
If you read it there is no guaranty that the fuse won't blow with the inrush because they are more sensitive.  _NOTE: The “blow characteristics” will differ slightly (due to the different metallurgy of the fuse elements) between commercial grade and audio grade fuses. We can't guarantee that your audiophile grade fuse, won’t blow at a different in-rush current threshold, that your stock commercial fuse._


----------



## UntilThen

Are we talking fuse? oh boy.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I reckon these titanium coated at 50c each will do. They were given to me when I bought the DV336se.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Last I checked no bridge from U.S. to New Zealand.


 
 I've been on Google Maps all day trying to figure out the truck route from Poland to Hawaii


----------



## pctazhp

Hey @UntilThen. The stars are aligned, the universe is in perfect harmony, and the Sultans are swinging hard here in Scottsdale tonight with Elise and T1


----------



## UntilThen

You need to check out the album 'Alchemy: Dire Straits Live (Remastered)' on Tidal HiFi. Then you need to roll in EL3N and Tung Sol 7236 and in your case the T1 G2. I'm using HE560 atm.
  
 Yup sounding really good.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You need to check out the album 'Alchemy: Dire Straits Live (Remastered)' on Tidal HiFi. Then you need to roll in EL3N and Tung Sol 7236 and in your case the T1 G2. I'm using HE560 atm.
> 
> Yup sounding really good.


 
 Doing exactly that right now. So great!!!
  
 From London to Sydney and on to Scottsdale, with some help from the Beyer people in Germany and the Feliks family in Poland, with glow-in-the-dark bulbs from the distant past. What an amazing world we live in


----------



## pctazhp

And with this beautiful song, I'm heading off to bed. I love the acoustic guitar - it's my favorite instrument.
  
 This video provides an amazing opportunity to compare the T1(2) and HD800S. With the 800 the contribution to the sound from the air cavity of the guitars is barely noticeable - easy to miss. With the T1 it is one of the most noticeable aspects of the recording. On the other hand, the 800 provides a much more realistic sense of the overall space of the recording venue. And which headphone did I choose to listen to last to lull me off to sleep and ensure sweet dreams?? The T1 of course)))


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Last I checked no bridge from U.S. to New Zealand.



 



Yup that's why its called ground/freight arriving in containers on trucks and ships. Takes a long time, but it is dirt cheap if you know where to go. If you are sending anything heavy its usually the way to go until you charter an 1/8 of a container. Not sure if it would be worth it to you for some things (such as Elise) , but especially oversees and to the British Commonwealth it should be far less expensive in my experience.

Well maybe in the future they will build a tunnel as a public employment measure, but that will likely take a bit longer than freight

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> I've been on Google Maps all day trying to figure out the truck route from Poland to Hawaii



 


Well sometimes google maps will give you just that

http://smartcanucks.ca/google-maps-directions-swim-across-the-atlantic-ocean/

Cheers
WB


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> I've been on Google Maps all day trying to figure out the truck route from Poland to Hawaii


 

 you're going to have to swim either way you try, twice if going the Atlantic way


----------



## connieflyer

Believe it or not, back in the 60's the US was contemplating, and doing studies to determine if they could in fact build a bridge from Los Angeles to Oahu, they wanted to make the state more accessesable,  Then the Vietnam war got in full swing, we went off to war and the politicians came up with new ways to spend money and blood.


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> you're going to have to swim either way you try, twice if going the Atlantic way


 
 It's not easy practicing for an ocean swim here in Scottsdale ))


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @WB2016, @geetarman49, @connieflyer, @mordy...interesting/contentious/impossibly concensus-achieving topics indeed in the quest for 'better' sound, lol!
  
 WB...You made mention of some extremely interesting and valid aspects relating to 'perception'/'interpretation', whether aural or visual...a veritable minefield!!
  
 And yours were also very pertinent comments, g49....and very "on the fence"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I suppose in summary one can only hope that folks do indeed take the time and trouble to look into the multiple elements involved in our systems, and not just the obvious ones. This surely pays dividends in the end - but only if one _wishes_ to, of course!
  
 Just a quick note re. cables...my own confirmation that there _are_ differences came from my better half, whose attitude to hi-fi is the same as cars...ie. "they're all the same to me!". I was comparing two well-respected interconnects, and immediately I plug in the second I hear "Ooohhh, I much prefer that one". No coincidence...it was by far my own favourite at the time - Rothwell 'River' at half the price of the Chord cable (no cues/autosuggestion on my part, I should add - I was gobsmacked, lol!). The Rothwells were subsequently ousted only by my ArtisanSilver pure silver interconnects.
  
 And re. less 'sturdy' audiophile fuses, one would indeed be foolish to spend money upgrading without some sort of mains 'conditioning'/filtering/spike & surge protection beforehand, IMHO...
  
 But in the final analysis what WB says is really the most important thing...if one is* truly* happy with what is being heard, then that is all that counts LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...HAPPY LISTENING!...


----------



## geetarman49

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @WB2016, @geetarman49, @connieflyer, @mordy...interesting/contentious/impossibly concensus-achieving topics indeed in the quest for 'better' sound, lol!
> 
> WB...You made mention of some extremely interesting and valid aspects relating to 'perception'/'interpretation', whether aural or visual...a veritable minefield!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 indeed ... i fully subscribe to that principle ... but then again, i'm never happy ... for long.
 people may think i'm on the fence ... but really, the grass_ is greener_ on the other side.
  
 wrt high-end audio, few words are as contentious as 'better' as in _dut A is better than dut B_ (dut = device under test) & i have no doubt that in the matters of applicable measurable parameters elise will _*not*_ be better, but i also have no qualms in making an a priori declaration that when it comes to amps, i _prefer _toobs (no, i've never tried dos equis) & thus, it is axiomatic that elise will be my preference  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Thanks @WB2016 . Perhaps I should go and sit in the car now and turn up the volume at 5:30am and wake up all the neighbors with some deep bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 



Very Nice.
WB


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> Hi WB, shipping to Hawaii/Alaska is crap, many on-line merchants give free shipping to anywhere but Hawaii and Alaska, even on ebay many say "does not ship to H or A"
> 
> When I bought the K7XX it took just over a month to get here, even those who were located much further away and in foreign countries were getting faster delivery.



 


Well if you lived in Alaska I might have some pitty on you most of the year, but living in Hawaii unfortunately I am having a much harder time feeling forward to your plight. Well Hawaii, it a dirty job but someone has to live there

Being isolated comes with a price. Then again when I buy things that cost more than $50 from the states and some of the best stuff is from the states I have to pay 23%Vat and 12.5% import tax, that really can get to be expensive. You guys in the states also generally have superb prices. In many places in the northern parts of Europe there is also a type of price fixing MSRP actually has a bit of a meaning here. In quite a few countries e.g Germany they have these laws to protect the small businesses from big corporate entities slashing prices and running them out of business. 

I actually wanted to buy a Leica camera setup and it was 30% cheaper to fly to the US and "import" it than anywhere in Europe. Almost 40% than in Germany where it was produced before being exported to the states. Also sites such as Amazon.co.uk put a surcharge on DVDs and CDs and many other things that are far less expensive to order in Germany or Austria. The UK site does free shipping to Italy if you order over 25GBP but charges at least 20GBP surcharge when ordering from the UK to Germany. The funny thing is the Amazon warehouses are mostly in Germay....

Life is funny that way.

Every place has their advantages and disadvantages. The Elise is one of the few times where it can be slightly beneficial to be in Europe, but those times are far and between. Also you are only saving 60$ that is two EL3Ns roughly, in audio terms virtually non existant

Aint half that bad if you look at the big picture.
WB


----------



## UntilThen

Spare a thought for me ok? I live in Australia and that ain't next door to Europe or US. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My tubes prices are inflated because of shipping cost. I bought the pair of Mazda 6N7G for $99 but I had to pay an extra $30 for shipping from Italy. 
  
 David, Hawaii is beautiful. I really enjoyed my visit in 2010. A view from my hotel room.


----------



## connieflyer

David, I envy you to some extent, I was stationed on Oahu from 1963 till the squadron folded in 1965, Barbers Point, (John Roberts now?).  Only place I had been that you could get up every morning and it was glorious.  Of course we do have snow,,,,,, oh yeah not much of a plus.  A lot of times, I will pay a little more for things in the States to avoid shipping charges from outside the continental borders.  Shipping has really gotten expensive in the last 10 years.  Supposedly because of the increase in fuel charges, they always raise prices to cover, then when the price of oil goes down, they don't lower shipping charges, a good game they play. You are over a barrel, if you want it and can't pick it up locally, you pay them.


----------



## DavidA

@WB2016, After reading your post I am appreciating my situation of my living location a lot more, thanks for a perspective I've not fully realized before.
  
@UntilThen, that picture looks like its from the Sheraton next to the Royal Hawaiian hotel, hope you got to enjoy the fireworks they have every Friday night, should have been quite a show from the Sheraton.  I remember staying in the penthouse of Rainbow tower once and the fireworks seemed like it was right in front of us.  This picture I used for my avatar is from the penthouse of the Hyatt Regency Ewa tower:


 The hotel on the lower right is the Moana Pacific, the hotel behind it the Sheraton.
  
 I've yet to visit Australia and New Zealand, two places I would like to visit before I get too old to enjoy traveling.
  
@connieflyer, Barbers Point has changed a lot over the years, its now called Kalaeloa, very little military is there now. I like traveling to find snow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, love Alaska during the early fall season, took this picture from inside Denali National Park many years ago,

 Also loved skiing in Zermatt and St Moritz Switzerland, got this picture of the Matterhorn from our hotel room:

 This picture is from Jackson Hole Wyoming, Grand Tetons:


 Its funny, I want to get away from Hawaii because I live here and most want to visit, maybe we should set up a housing exchange program for a month or two?  Headphones included


----------



## connieflyer

As much as I want to go back to Hawaii, I just received my new Senn 800 and would want those to go with me!  I can leave the Senn 700's if you like!


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> As much as I want to go back to Hawaii, I just received my new Senn 800 and would want those to go with me!  I can leave the Senn 700's if you like!


 
 I have a HD-800 here so no need to bring yours
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Also have a HD-700 and a few others


----------



## connieflyer

Well we made it up to 60 degrees today, still want to come?


----------



## DavidA

Maybe, it was 88 and quite muggy today, played golf earlier, we were pretty sweaty by the 3rd hole, we had to jump in the shower as soon as we got home, also need the AC to relax


----------



## connieflyer

Did I mention the grass needs cutting also?  Nice spring day here.  We had 84 three days ago, then back to the 60's, in Michigan if you don't like the weather, wait a day or so, it will change.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow so many nice photos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good photos Dave. 
  
 connieflyer enjoy your HD800 !!!  ...and tell me what you think of it.
  
 Yes David, it's Sheraton 19th floor but I went up north sightseeing to an island where they say 'Lost' was filmed. I didn't want to leave Hawaii. They have to escort me up the plane.


----------



## connieflyer

UT you want a real treat? Try this from Chris Botti and Gladys Knight, it is excellent, his trumpet is sharp as a tack.......

  
 or a little laid back ...


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> UT you want a real treat? Try this from Chris Botti and Gladys Knight, it is excellent, his trumpet is sharp as a tack........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j5Hrim_-as
> 
> or a little laid back ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgHlmmHjKO4


 
 Love the album "To Love Again - The Duets"


----------



## connieflyer

These Senn 800's really open the music up.  I think this time they are a keeper.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> These Senn 800's really open the music up.  I think this time they are a keeper.


 
 You like it huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be better with Elise.
  
 Thanks for Chris Botti. Listening to it now.


----------



## connieflyer

Wife's medical condition caused me to have to cancel knee replacement surgery again, not good.  These phones do help to ease the pain, problem is now I have to listen to all my music all over again, hearing things I had not heard before.  I have not been bothered by "supposed" hot treble, bass is plentiful, tight and beautiful, vocals are eerie, I look behind me now and again, because I hear something that is a little behind me.  Maybe just getting old.  Took extra pain pill, going to be a long night of music I think.  Now after hearing these phones on the Ember, getting real anxious to have my Elise in hand.  Heard Chris Botti's  horn and the delicate notes in between what I normally hear are something.  Well have to move to next type of music!


----------



## connieflyer

Vocals are crazy good....


----------



## connieflyer

A nice way to end the night....


----------



## UntilThen

HD800 and T1 has that uncanny ability to make you turn around and wonder where that sound came from. I think they work really well with a tube amp.
  
 This is my contribution today.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay this has to be the last, the wife said I was singing along with these guys and she thought I was hurt


----------



## UntilThen

That's awesome. I tried singing it and the puppy hid under the table.


----------



## DavidA

Love this thread, great music selection, better than a streaming service, lol


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh my great Elise
 Always there to please when I'm beat
 Everything sounds teriffic, and not if not you're trippin'
 Most who take up her reigns find their end game
 What have I done so spectacular to deseve a sound so immaculate
 Even my electrostat is only getting as much headtime as a dime
 And just think, burn-in is still on the brink
  
Am I a poet and just don't know it, or this is not my time for rhymes?


----------



## connieflyer

I need to get out my dictionary, kinda of a cacthy tune....


----------



## hpamdr

decentlevi said:


> Oh my great Elise
> Always there to please when I'm beat
> Everything sounds teriffic, and not if not you're trippin'
> Most who take up her reigns find their end game
> ...


 

 Hi DL,
  
 Thanks for the rhymes for Elise.
 If you feel so pleased, it seems that your Elise is singing and not yeling anymore.
 Can you enlight us about what you did to fix-it back to immaculate sound.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I tried a bunch of recordings and realised the bright sound must have just been because of brightly recorded albums I was listening to. I also spent a few hours testing innumerable matched / non-matched tube brands of such as EL3N + assorted 6J5, assorted 6SN7 assorted 6J5, assorted 6SN7 + 6AS7GE.
  
 My favorite combinations seemed to be: GE 6SN7 GTA with Zenith 6SN7 as drivers + quad coke bottle intermixed Visseax & Zenith 6J5 as powers. 
 But going back to EL3N + quad straight-form 6J5 was like none other. (intermixed Sylvania and RCA)
  
 The former combo is very clear, detailed and energetic, and the latter combo has that uncanny realism / instrument separation / warmth, yet a nuance slower PRaT and less clarity.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen: got a link for you until you get back to Hawaii: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npmC9CCwjX4


----------



## UntilThen

Aww you're making me miss Hawaii. It was such a magical holiday. That night on our way to a Hawaiian nightclub, our group pass this statute and we decided to give him our flower garlands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's one of the ladies in our group.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> The former combo is very clear, detailed and energetic, and the latter combo has that uncanny realism / instrument separation / warmth, yet a nuance slower PRaT and less clarity.


 
 Herein lies the flexibility with tubes. I know of several combos in my collection that steers one way or the other and I use them all depending on what I'm listening to. Also having a selection of headphones gives you even more flexibility to dial in the tone you need for the occasion and music listening session you're in. 
  
 However one factor is constant for me. I'm set on using Elise. I feel she makes a fine centre piece of your head-fi setup and has great flexibility with a wide range of tubes. Taking performance to cost factor into consideration, Elise is an incredible purchase.


----------



## UntilThen

Vince are you going to tell me more about your Elise or are you still burning her in. Too busy tapping your toes and bobbing your head? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ...and where is @B-60 and @Fervent . How's Oscar? Has he given up on tubes?
  
@puffmtd !!!


----------



## hypnos1

geetarman49 said:


> indeed ... i fully subscribe to that principle ... but then again, i'm never happy ... for long.
> people may think i'm on the fence ... but really, the grass_ is greener_ on the other side.
> 
> wrt high-end audio, few words are as contentious as 'better' as in _dut A is better than dut B_ (dut = device under test) & i have no doubt that in the matters of applicable measurable parameters elise will _*not*_ be better, but i also have no qualms in making an a priori declaration that when it comes to amps, i _prefer _toobs (no, i've never tried dos equis) & thus, it is axiomatic that elise will be my preference
> ...


 
  
 Aaahhh g49...there is indeed always greener grass...*somewhere* - but usually accompanied by a VERY hefty price tag...and not just in terms of $$$$  lol, no?!
  
 I myself have in the past also been guilty re. the happiness timescale, which is why I am both delighted and _extremely _surprised that I have finally reached that blissful state of (still!) being _*totally*_ satisfied with my own Elise setup. After 2 years of constant critical analysis, the ensuing relief is beyond words!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And the subject "better" truly is a wondrous one...and one surely to be taken in different ways according to context - eg. most certainly appropriate when applied to better _matching/synergy_ with one's other components, and especially *ears**!* The problem only really arises, of course, when assuming - and _stating_ - that the exact same results will apply to _all_...But then, I should be stating the obvious here!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 ps.  Elise your '_preference'?_....If you don't swear she's _*better*_ than anything under $10,000, methinks you could just be in for a rough ride, mon ami!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 pps.  Loved your piece on Loreena McK by the way. What a truly remarkable achievement indeed on her part. The highest standards across the board are evident in her CDs, and watching (+ hearing!) her - and her splendid accompaniment - on the DVD "Nights from the Alhambra" is a joy I simply cannot get enough of...true professional artistry...
  


connieflyer said:


> Vocals are crazy good....




  
 Aaahhh...Clannad...now you're talking connie! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(same class as L McK!)...
  


decentlevi said:


> Well I tried a bunch of recordings and realised the bright sound must have just been because of brightly recorded albums I was listening to. I also spent a few hours testing innumerable matched / non-matched tube brands of such as EL3N + assorted 6J5, assorted 6SN7 assorted 6J5, assorted 6SN7 + 6AS7GE.
> 
> My favorite combinations seemed to be: GE 6SN7 GTA with Zenith 6SN7 as drivers + quad coke bottle intermixed Visseax & Zenith 6J5 as powers.
> But going back to EL3N + quad straight-form 6J5 was like none other. (intermixed Sylvania and RCA)
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL....these last 2 aspects are among those that continue to improve over the 300 hrs  mark....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
  
 And @DavidA...all this talk of Hawaii has brought back memories of one of my most magical dinner evenings _*ever*_...watching the swans swimming as I washed down my meal with the most gorgeous Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling imaginable, and a gorgeous gal sitting opposite me....where? - the Swan Court Restaurant in the Hyatt, Maui, of course!! A memory I shall treasure for the rest of my life, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Fervent

untilthen said:


> Vince are you going to tell me more about your Elise or are you still burning her in. Too busy tapping your toes and bobbing your head?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm alive, but busy at work. Been spending alot of quality time with Elise in the evenings though. The 6AS7G tubes really sound amazing. So good that I've cancelled any potential tube-hunting plans for the time being. It's funny how the old music catalogue is brought new life in a new light, driven through some proper gear.
 Oscar got the message last time he tried anything suspicious in the proximity of my mancave-corner. He is allowed to sit in the armchair though when he behaves


----------



## DavidA

@hypnos1, the swan court at the Hyatt Maui is a beautiful restaurant, ate there many times over the years.  I don't know if they are still open for dinner anymore, when there a few years ago and they only served breakfast then.
  
 There used to be a Hyatt? on Kauai (now called Marriott Resort) that was partly destroyed by hurricane Iniki many years ago, it had restaurant on the edge of the cliff over looking the bay surrounded by the Kauai Lagoons Golf course, only way to get there was by a beautiful horse drawn carriage, very Cinderella-ish, best view ever from any restaurant that I've been to.  Doesn't bring back great memories since I was there with my ex


----------



## aqsw

davida said:


> @WB2016, After reading your post I am appreciating my situation of my living location a lot more, thanks for a perspective I've not fully realized before.
> 
> @UntilThen, that picture looks like its from the Sheraton next to the Royal Hawaiian hotel, hope you got to enjoy the fireworks they have every Friday night, should have been quite a show from the Sheraton.  I remember staying in the penthouse of Rainbow tower once and the fireworks seemed like it was right in front of us.  This picture I used for my avatar is from the penthouse of the Hyatt Regency Ewa tower:
> 
> ...


 
 I'm all for it. Anybody want to come to Winnipeg in February. It will be about -40 degrees. I will throw in a set of Jets tickets.!!


----------



## DavidA

aqsw said:


> I'm all for it. Anybody want to come to Winnipeg in February. It will be about -40 degrees. I will throw in a set of Jets tickets.!!


 

 I'm going to have to pass on the offer


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> I'm going to have to pass on the offer


 
 Yeah. Me too - as much as I would love to escape that "horrible" winter weather here in Scottsdale. Those 75F degree days really get so boring))) Can't help to also mention that the "real" Winnipeg Jets are here and known as the "Arizona Coyotes"


----------



## UntilThen

fervent said:


> I'm alive, but busy at work. Been spending alot of quality time with Elise in the evenings though. The 6AS7G tubes really sound amazing. So good that I've cancelled any potential tube-hunting plans for the time being. It's funny how the old music catalogue is brought new life in a new light, driven through some proper gear.
> Oscar got the message last time he tried anything suspicious in the proximity of my mancave-corner. He is allowed to sit in the armchair though when he behaves


 
 Oscar deserves a headphone. He's adorable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm glad you're happy with your setup. It happens all the time. We rediscover our old music collection with Elise. You don't really need more tubes with EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G. They will sound better with further burn in.
  
 Enjoy Fervent.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm all for it. Anybody want to come to Winnipeg in February. It will be about -40 degrees. I will throw in a set of Jets tickets.!!


 

 I like my 25 degrees Autumn weather now. -40 will kill me. Elise will be frozen !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Oscar deserves a headphone. He's adorable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey @Fervent...I echo UT's words to the letter....magical combo, lol!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...glad you too are experiencing the new-found joy of "old" music - so often the _*best*_ IMHO!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and what constantly surprises me is the actual recording _quality_ of some of these 'oldies'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

2 simple mods has transform my HD650. I'm loving it now. Unbelievable doing this at 4am. Crystal clear now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's a mod most people are doing. So here's a picture.
  
 Put a 10cents coin on the foam that covers the driver and use a sharp blade and cut it. See the picture below.
  
 ...and hey presto... a new headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 Then on the other side, pull out the foam covering the driver which is the small circle in the middle. See the small pulled out foam on the right side of the picture?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> 2 simple mods has transform my HD650. I'm loving it now. Unbelievable doing this at 4am. Crystal clear now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...always wondered about that foam covering, lol!...interesting...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...always wondered about that foam covering, lol!...interesting...


 
 H1, it's a HD850 now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Much clearer but with HD650 mid and bass. Lovely.
  
 See my amended post with another picture above.


----------



## oshipao

Sad, sad day.

One of the biggest game changers has left us. Probably more influentual than many more respected artists.

I am glad I saw him struttin' his stuff 2013 in Stockholm. R.I.P. The Symbol.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_tonrrxvYA


----------



## UntilThen

That's very sudden and sad indeed. RIP Prince, I've enjoyed your music.


----------



## geetarman49

and an absolutely fabulous player on the 'axe'  ... what a loss!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> 2 simple mods has transform my HD650. I'm loving it now. Unbelievable doing this at 4am. Crystal clear now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 mods for your 650 but no mods for your t1?


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> mods for your 650 but no mods for your t1?


 

 T1 Gen 1 does not need any mods as it is on Elise. Any mods will kill it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ... but the mods for HD650 is really something. The top end opens up. I'm listening to all my favorite songs again now. Once upon a Time in the West !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is a last mod that is shared by the modding community. That is to use some Dynamats on the back of the driver. Said to increase definition and tighten up the bass. Will give this a go when I can go to a car audio installer and buy some dynamats.


----------



## UntilThen

Color me impressed with this new HD850 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










  
 I had this headphone for almost a year and after the mod the difference is quite obvious. The bass is still strong, the mids still engaging and the highs...they sparkle. I'm hearing things now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps... don't do this to the HD600. I think it will become too bright. It's just right for the HD650.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> T1 Gen 1 does not need any mods as it is on Elise. Any mods will kill it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i really hate using dynamat on hps ... really messy & ugly stuff ... & if you change your mind, well ...


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> i really hate using dynamat on hps ... really messy & ugly stuff ... & if you change your mind, well ...


 

 Well the 1st 2 mods are probably irreversible for me now but I don't want to reverse it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The dynamats are cut to rectangular and square pieces and simply stuck onto the raised plastic ridges. I think it's easily removed if desired.


----------



## UntilThen

You place the dynamats where the 'BBBBBBBB' are....


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. This is for your HD850 )))


----------



## pctazhp

And please don't miss her singing "You Raise Me Up" It sends chills throughout my body and brings tears to my eyes. Can't ask much more than that from a performance.


----------



## UntilThen

Amazing. Both the singing and the HD858 ... numbers are going up by the minute. I'm loving this headphone now. It's sending more than chills through me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I need to go out and buy the dynamats.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Amazing. Both the singing and the HD858 ... numbers are going up by the minute. I'm loving this headphone now. It's sending more than chills through me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very cool ))))


----------



## geetarman49

@connieflyer  - great choice of song .. it's interesting to see some various covers over time (too many to list).
  
 here's a luvly rendition from lulu:

  
  
 a grungier version from jeff beck group:

  
 one with a slightly jazzy piano intro:

  
 and of course, both a fan and band fav of the dead:

  
  
 but let's not forget the author (2 vids, first with mr.plant):


  
 and here's a 2016 edition:

  
 excuse my indulgence (but i just had to).   finally  --- some background from wiki:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Dew


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for the various versions, having lived during this period, it held very special significance for me.  If you are old enough you might remember "duck and cover!"  Schools taught us this..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover.  Check out the video on the right side of the page, this is what we lived through, like it would help, government propaganda .


----------



## connieflyer

Another Helene  Fischer


----------



## UntilThen

Ok lots of music to try out my hd850.
I have the dynamats now just need some DIY.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Thanks for the various versions, having lived during this period, it held very special significance for me.  If you are old enough you might remember "duck and cover!"  Schools taught us this..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover.  Check out the video on the right side of the page, this is what we lived through, like it would help, government propaganda .


 
 I remember "duck and cover",  the Cuban missile crisis and Sputnik as if it were yesterday.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I remember practicing "duck and cover" too, to the sound of air raid sirens!!!

Lest we all forget, the destruction of most of humanity, is readily accessible via the silent lurk of submarines who are poised at the ready, 24/7/365. 

I am amazed at how removed young folks are from the threat of mutually assured nuclear destruction. 
They don't have the palatable sense of it those those who went through the Cuban Missile Crisis do.

Maybe a good thing....


----------



## UntilThen

3rd mod done to HD650. Adding Dynamat. Bass is tighter now and sounds good. The 3 simple mods have transform this headphone. I'm really impressed. I can see myself using HD650 a lot more now. Imagine a stock HD650 with the high notes opening up and bass tightened and more control. There's more air and space and clarity. This is definitely worth doing. Now to listen to War of the Worlds. 
  
 These mods have been done by many others. You'll find it on the internet.
  
 Pictures of the 3rd mod.


----------



## UntilThen

HD850 is sounding so good with this...


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Here is a question:
  
 If a person wants to buy only one set of headphones, what would you recommend between the T1 Gen 1, HD800 or 650 modded? Which one is the best value?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sonic Treat:


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFUR1VSVX-E[/VIDEO]


----------



## pctazhp

"Can't Help Falling in Love" is in my opinion one of the best songs Elvis Presley ever recorded. "Love me Tender" is one of his early ones. I think I was about 10 years old at the time it was released. Elvis was, is and always will be The King. But somehow, Andrea's versions of these two songs might just possibly be considered, well shall we say, a little more "polished"


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Sonic Treat:


 
 For sure ))))


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> 3rd mod done to HD650. Adding Dynamat. Bass is tighter now and sounds good. The 3 simple mods have transform this headphone. I'm really impressed. I can see myself using HD650 a lot more now. Imagine a stock HD650 with the high notes opening up and bass tightened and more control. There's more air and space and clarity. This is definitely worth doing. Now to listen to War of the Worlds.
> 
> These mods have been done by many others. You'll find it on the internet.




I did these mods to my Senn HD580's many moons ago, as well as re-cabled them with a (supposedly) 99.8% pure Silver cable.

They do seem to compete favorably against later production 'phones.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Here is a question:
> 
> If a person wants to buy only one set of headphones, what would you recommend between the T1 Gen 1, HD800 or 650 modded? Which one is the best value?


 

 Best value has to be the T1 with current price. It's a one Tesla of magnetic density hence the T1 name. It's a better sound signature for me, besides being better constructed than the HD650. Has a better fit on the head and a just nice clamp tightness. Besides you don't need to do your own mod which kind of put me off... even with these simple mods on the HD650. That's why it took me so long to experiment with it. The end result is very pleasing though. Sennheiser should tune it this way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 modded HD650 is approaching T1's clarity and high end extension. Has a more solid mid bass. The dynamat tightens the bass and is a much better sound now. Listening to a small group band like Dire Straits 'Once Upon a Time in the West', it's rhythmic, fast and impactful. It's a lively sound. Very entertaining.  T1 has a much wider soundstage and superb imaging and listening to 'Adagio for Strings, Op.11', it's clearly more enjoyable. Also on large scale music score from Hans Zimmer, the T1 is phenomena. No contest here. I still prefer T1 sound over a modded HD650. I'm still trying to assess modded HD650 sound for any anomalies by doing what I did.
  
 HD800 price is still too high so it's not a consideration for me. Besides I prefer T1 sound over it.


----------



## mordy

Thanks for the detailed answer


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I did these mods to my Senn HD580's many moons ago, as well as re-cabled them with a (supposedly) 99.8% pure Silver cable.
> 
> They do seem to compete favorably against later production 'phones.


 

 Glad to hear you think the sound is better after those mods on the HD580. The silver cable will further add clarity.
  
 These mods have a greater impact on the HD650 which in it's stock form, have a recessed high end and a warm tone. The mods have change this quite significantly. It's crispier, faster and more energetic now. Bass has less bloom now and is tighter.
  
 I need more time with it though. Have to make sure it's not a new tone swooning me.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> "Can't Help Falling in Love" is in my opinion one of the best songs Elvis Presley ever recorded. "Love me Tender" is one of his early ones. I think I was about 10 years old at the time it was released. Elvis was, is and always will be The King. But somehow, Andrea's versions of these two songs might just possibly be considered, well shall we say, a little more "polished"


 
 How could you not fall in love listening to that. 
  
 I think you should add HD800S to your signature together with T1 G2 and keep it.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> HD850 is sounding so good with this...




Sounds awesome with the HD600 as well.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> How could you not fall in love listening to that.
> 
> I think you should add HD800S to your signature together with T1 G2 and keep it.


 
 You really want to get me in trouble ))))


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 A long time ago I had a HD600, using it with a Headroom  The Max Home headphone amplifier. At this time (around 2000) this was supposed to be state of the art. Could never get used to the sound - all frequencies were reproduced, but cold and uninvolving. Never liked those cans....
  
 This was long before I tried a tube amp - do you think that the ss amp was the problem?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Sounds awesome with the HD600 as well.


 
 I've no doubt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> A long time ago I had a HD600, using it with a Headroom  The Max Home headphone amplifier. At this time (around 2000) this was supposed to be state of the art. Could never get used to the sound - all frequencies were reproduced, but cold and uninvolving. Never liked those cans....
> 
> This was long before I tried a tube amp - do you think that the ss amp was the problem?


 
 Oskari can give his answer but here's my personal experience with HD600 in the brief spell I tried it. 
  
 At www.minidisc.com.au I was auditioning 3 headphones (DT880, HD600, HD650) with the shop supplied amp. It is an O2 amp. I walk out with the DT880. 2 weeks later I went back and bought the HD650. In short I was rather unimpressed with the HD600 from that short audition with O2 and my iPod classic 160gb as source.
  
 However, LR came and visit me with his HD600. When I listen to it on my Elise, I was very surprised how much better it sounded to me than my HD650. The clarity and details are there and it's more linear through the FR. Bass is not as gratifying as the HD650 but ok imo. HD600 with Elise and EL3N + 5998 sounded great. It has the flesh, guts and fireworks. This headphone is a bargain atm.
  
 ps..if you like more bass, go with the HD650.
  
 ... without doubt you need to try HD850


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> A long time ago I had a HD600, using it with a Headroom  The Max Home headphone amplifier. At this time (around 2000) this was supposed to be state of the art. Could never get used to the sound - all frequencies were reproduced, but cold and uninvolving. Never liked those cans....
> 
> This was long before I tried a tube amp - do you think that the ss amp was the problem?




I do find this baffling indeed. I'm not familiar with the amp. Obviously the HD600 is lighter than the HD650. But cold? Näh.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> I've no doubt. :wink_face:
> 
> Oskari can give his answer but here's my personal experience with HD600 in the brief spell I tried it.
> 
> ...




Hi UT,

Would you say that you liked the HD600 better with Elise than HD650 stock? I have had the urge to switch to 650 to get a little more bass (natural or not).


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Would you say that you liked the HD600 better with Elise than HD650 stock? I have had the urge to switch to 650 to get a little more bass (natural or not).


 

 Now that's not a question with a straight answer. HD600 is brighter and airier but HD650 has a more fulfilling bass. Some music you'll welcome the added bass whilst others you would love the more delicate touch. Not saying HD600 is lacking in bass. Just in comparison with HD650.
  
 However I'm evil. Now that I have heard a modded HD650, the choice is simple.... I'd go for the HD850. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 One last mod is to break off the plastic spider behind the driver. See post post #22. I just did that and now it's a HD850S. Well jokes aside, this last irreversible mod removes any resonance introduced when you remove the foam behind the driver.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Now that's not a question with a straight answer. HD600 is brighter and airier but HD650 has a more fulfilling bass. Some music you'll welcome the added bass whilst others you would love the more delicate touch. Not saying HD600 is lacking in bass. Just in comparison with HD650.
> 
> However I'm evil. Now that I have heard a modded HD650, the choice is simple.... I'd go for the HD850.
> 
> One last mod is to break off the plastic spider behind the driver. See post post #22. I just did that and now it's a HD850S. Well jokes aside, this last irreversible mod removes any resonance introduced when you remove the foam behind the driver.




I appreciate that.

I would not engage modding I think. I have done some to my turntable, but in principle I am a little against it  Especially when not reversable.

With a little sweeter tubes (like Ken-Rad VT-231), would I get closer to HD650 but keeping the more flat frequency? Seems like a good idea in my head right about now.


----------



## Oskari

You all know I'm a Brubeck fan by now. Jimmy Rushing fits the bill as well:


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/5nSYYAd00lM[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

There's a lot you can do with tubes to tailor the sound from a HD600 and HD650. You'll be surprised how much more enjoyable those headphones are with Elise. It's a natural fit.
  
 If I had to choose between HD600 and HD650 stock, I'd still go with HD650. It's just more engaging and musical for me. YMMV. 
  
 Not wanting to resurrect the cold war between fans of these 2 headphones.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> There's a lot you can do with tubes to tailor the sound from a HD600 and HD650. You'll be surprised how much more enjoyable those headphones are with Elise. It's a natural fit.
> 
> If I had to choose between HD600 and HD650 stock, I'd still go with HD650. It's just more engaging and musical for me. YMMV.
> 
> Not wanting to resurrect the cold war between fans of these 2 headphones. :bigsmile_face:




Okay.

And the soundstage (3D, width and depth) is about the same? Have read that the HD650 reveals more layers in sound terms.

I guess I have to try it ☺️


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Okay.
> 
> And the soundstage (3D, width and depth) is about the same? Have read that the HD650 reveals more layers in sound terms.
> 
> I guess I have to try it ☺️


 
 Don't think there's much difference with soundstage between those 2 headphones.
  
 HD600 image better. Instrument separations is better as well given the clearer, brighter tone.
  
 HD650 has a denser texture that will give you a sense of more layers. It's warmer and more lush sounding. The mid bass hump is very gratifying. 
  
 What headphone are you using?
  
 ummm I just saw your musical preference... blues, folk and soul. HD650 will be right up your alley.


----------



## audiojun

I had both the hd600 and hd650.
  
 The HD600 wins on vocal presentation, it has a bump in the presence region (3-4k) makes you connect to the music more and feels like they are closer. HD600 has a softer sound, it is tuned well for vocals that are recorded well. HD 600 for vocals.
  
 With The HD650 the vocals sit back (less presence) and the musical instruments sound more better in comparison. HD650 has an harder more impactful and more detailed sound. HD 650 for music.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Don't think there's much difference with soundstage between those 2 headphones.
> 
> HD600 image better. Instrument separations is better as well given the clearer, brighter tone.
> 
> ...




I am using HD600, and have been quite satisfied with them and a Bottlehead Crack + Speedball. But recently I bit the bullet and ordered a Elise. So I thought that if the presentation on the Elise is more open and agile, the HD650 would be ideal. Have not heard it, so I have no clue if it would sound very natural or not. I think organic is the word I am looking for 

Note: I am only using vinyl as playback source.

I should perhaps wait and see how the 600's pair before I take the sibling for a dance.


----------



## UntilThen

I think you should wait to listen to HD600 with Elise first. Your current setup is very solid as it is. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using vinyl as your only source. I've been itching to do that too.
  
 However now that I've heard a modded HD650, it is very hard for me not to recommend it.


----------



## oshipao

audiojun said:


> I had both the hd600 and hd650.
> 
> The HD600 wins on vocal presentation, it has a bump in the presence region (3-4k) makes you connect to the music more and feels like they are closer. HD600 has a softer sound, it is tuned well for vocals that are recorded well. HD 600 for vocals.
> 
> With The HD650 the vocals sit back (less presence) and the musical instruments sound more better in comparison. HD650 has an harder more impactful and more detailed sound. HD 650 for music.




Thanks!

That does it. I will try the HD650!


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> I think you should wait to listen to HD600 with Elise first. Your current setup is very solid as it is. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using vinyl as your only source. I've been itching to do that too.
> 
> However now that I've heard a modded HD650, it is very hard for me not to recommend it. :etysmile:




Vinyl is primary for me. With the right setup it is magical in it's own way.

I think I am afraid of the veil people are talking about. But as audiojum said, HD650 for music seems like a route to go.

We'll see, perhaps I could return the 650's if I am not fond of them. Btw, listen to this...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HfasFU5om1E


----------



## audiojun

oshipao said:


> Vinyl is primary for me. With the right setup it is magical in it's own way.
> 
> I think I am afraid of the veil people are talking about. But as audiojum said, HD650 for music seems like a route to go.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There isn't any veil in the HD650 when properly amped. Also if it's dark turn up the volume. The treble, relative to rest of frequency should balance out and the HD650 becomes a more neutral headphone (due to the way equal loudness works).
  
 I clicked on it expecting some low quality youtube stuff but the quality is decent even compressed in 240p.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Vinyl is primary for me. With the right setup it is magical in it's own way.
> 
> I think I am afraid of the veil people are talking about. But as audiojum said, HD650 for music seems like a route to go.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow that's some emotions that song.
  
 Nah no veil. Especially after the mod, it's like riding a V-Max without a helmet with the wind blowing in your face. !
  
 Let me indulge in my favourite picture again.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oshipao said:


> Vinyl is primary for me. With the right setup it is magical in it's own way.




Right on, brother!

I am spinning some vinyl right now...

Cheers!


----------



## oshipao

jazzvinyl said:


> Right on, brother!
> 
> I am spinning some vinyl right now...
> 
> Cheers!




Right on back at you! 

It is involving. And I love the bigger format!


----------



## Kon Peki

@UntilThen I noticed you also have the DarkVoice 336SE.  I currently have that amp along with HE-560, HD600, and others.  Is the Feliks Audio Elise a very noticeable step up from the Darkvoice 336SE?  If so, in what way?


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> @UntilThen I noticed you also have the DarkVoice 336SE.  I currently have that amp along with HE-560, HD600, and others.  Is the Feliks Audio Elise a very noticeable step up from the Darkvoice 336SE?  If so, in what way?


 

 Hi KP, welcome to Elise thread. 
  
 I should do a proper review of DV336se vs Elise but I'm kind of in a music listening mode at the moment and there's a big gap in those 2 amps that I do not think it's a fair contest. 
  
 Here are my summary points. I do have to mention the tubes used because they do impact on the overall sound.
  
*Elise (EL3N and Chatham 6520)*
 What stands out most when compared to DV336se is that Elise has PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing - hate over using this terminology but it really applies here), fast transient response and greater clarity and details especially in the mid and higher frequencies. It's more linear across the FR. Soundstage is wider and deeper. Finally it's a more engaging and euphonic sound compared to DV336se.
  
 It's also better adapt with high and low impedance headphones and have a greater range of tubes to roll. Tubes that hum in my DV336se, works fine in Elise. 
  
*DV336 se (with Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears and Tung Sol 5998)*
 Very good sound for the price. Bass is quite impressive. Have a lot of power for it's size. Taken on it's own, it's a good sound but when compared to Elise, it feels sluggish, grainier, less sparkle and narrower soundstage. It did seem to have a better bass weight and impact but doesn't extends as low. These comments are made in relation to Elise.
  
  
 Do I think it's worthwhile to upgrade to Elise? You bet. No question about it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> *DV336 se (with Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears and Tung Sol 5998)*
> Very good sound for the price. Bass is quite impressive. Have a lot of power for it's size. Taken on it's own, it's a good sound but when compared to Elise, it feels sluggish, grainier, less sparkle and narrower soundstage. It did seem to have a better bass weight and impact but doesn't extends as low. These comments are made in relation to Elise.




Just for giggles, have you tried a pair of 6BL7's and a brighter 6SN7 in the DV?

I see the DV 336SE on Massdrop for about 1/3 what I paid for the Elise...was thinking of getting one to play around with.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Just for giggles, have you tried a pair of 6BL7's and a brighter 6SN7 in the DV?
> 
> I see the DV 336SE on Massdrop for about 1/3 what I paid for the Elise...was thinking of getting one to play around with.


 

 Well I'm going to do a comparo with these tubes and publish my findings on http://www.head-fi.org/t/348833/darkvoice-336i-336se-tuberolling-partii, which I participated in before I got Elise. Don't want to hijack Elise thread for a DV336se tubes comparison. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll use a Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top as driver. It's affordable, bright, clear and sweet sounding.
  
 The following power tubes will be compared:- 
 Tung Sol 5998
 Tung Sol 7236
 Chatham 6520
 Mullard 6080
 GE 6BL7GTA 1963 cross plate
  
 I think the DV336se will complement Elise very well for testing out singular tubes and also for trying out newly acquired tubes. Sort of like a guinea for experiment.  Besides it sounds pretty good for a low monetary outlay.


----------



## UntilThen

It's photos time.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, looks like one of the skulls from "The Shadow" movie
  
 let me know when you are serving this:

 Or one of these:

  
 I'll be over shortly


----------



## UntilThen

@DavidA do not remind @hypnos1 of the XO.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 How about this? Will this do? Japan duty free 2010.... I've to age it another 4 years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm sure the HE560 sounds better with the whisky.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, Its a Louie XIII, and the bottle is at friends house since I don't really care for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, actually had two bottles, gave the other to an ex-GF since it was her favorite.  Me, I'm a wine, vodka, beer, champagne person:  below is a great pairing, had it the other week.


 I'm a real light weight when it comes to whisky, scotch, bourbon, (or as I call them brown stuff) a few (2-3max) shots and I'm down for the count


----------



## UntilThen

Diem !!! Louie XIII is $3500 per bottle. I think you need to take it back from the ex !!! 
  
 Also that Cain Valley looks like a perfect headphone stand.
  
 Anyhoo I've complied a playlist for my comparo.
  
 Rainy Nights in Georgia - Randy Crawford
 Dreams - Fleetwood Mac
 Private Investigations - Dire Straits
 Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd
 Whole Lotta Love - Led Zepellin
 Take Five - Dave Brubeck
 Piano Concerto No. 21 in C Major, K 467 - "Elvira Madigan". II.Andante - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Ljubljana Symphony Orchestra
 1812 Overture in E-Flat Major, Op.49 - Tchaikovsky, Ljubljana Symphony Orchestra 
 Die Walkure, Act II: Ride of the Valkyries - Richard Wagner, Boston Pops Orchestra 
  
 and I've expanded my power tubes to include all of these
  
 Tung Sol 5998
 Tung Sol 7236
 Chatham 6520
 Mullard 6080
 GE 6BL7GTA
 RCA 6AS7GA
 GE 6AS7G - with copper rod - looks like a RCA 6AS7G 
 Svetlana 6H13C
  
 That means I'll listen to all the songs above 8 times. I should know those songs by heart at the end of it.


----------



## UntilThen

After several hours of listening, a single 6BL7 in DV336se is lack lustre. Besides being low gain it's not even better sounding than the RCA 6AS7G. Don't even suggest using a pair in DV336se. Anyway I've no wish to resurrect the 6BL7 debate and shall just drop this.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Diem !!! Louie XIII is $3500 per bottle. I think you need to take it back from the ex !!!
> 
> Also that Cain Valley looks like a perfect headphone stand.
> 
> ...


 
  
 YIKES, UT!!...methinks you'll need the help of that_ entire_ bottle of whisky to get through this marathon, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...GOOD LUCK!...
  
 ps. Have NOT forgotten the XO..._yet!!!_..


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> YIKES, UT!!...methinks you'll need the help of that_ entire_ bottle of whisky to get through this marathon, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha... I'll need 2 bottles of David's Louis XIII. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyhoo why bother doing a tubes review for DV336se now. I'm plug back into Elise and enjoying pure sonic bliss with my EL3Ns.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, I thought this may be helpful for any Elise owners considering to get the headphones listed below. I've done a semi-thorough comparison between these 5 headphones on the Elise. I had done a last comparison before I sell 3 of these headphones, because two reign supreme. I'm very familiar with the sound of these, especailly the Denon AHD 1001 (owned 8 years), Beyerdynamic DT-880 (about 6 years), and the Beyerdynamic DT-150 I've had for over a year.
  
 I had done this comparison using this tube combination for the Elise:

 Dual EL3N + quad 6J5 (2 Sylvania + 2 RCA intermixed, using two 6J5 adapters)
  
*Beyerdynamic DT-880* Vs. HD 650: DT-880 sound generally flat, non-engaging sound with forward treble & lows take a few steps back. Tonality seems slightly more lifelike however
 Vs. HD-650: drums hit about 2x harder (good dynamics). Mids much more forward / lush, instrument separation 2-3x better, soundstage at least 50% bigger. Bass about 2x more full / authoritative.

  
  
*Denon AHD 1001* Vs. Beyer. DT-880: Denon is more engaging / energetic. General tonality slightly higher pitched and overall brighter. Good sub-bass extension yet slightly recessed bass amount.
 Vs. HD-650: Denon is much brighter and somewhat smoother in the mids with better sub-bass. The HD 650 impact, and stage and instrument separation much better. Overall Denon was smoother and more polite yet with harsh highs, while HD-650 rougher / tougher sounding with veiled highs

  
  
*Beyerdynamic DT-150* (heavily modded): Perfect tonality yet treble doesn't extend very high and sounds slightly artificial
 Vs. HD-650: very similar tonality, yet the instrument separation, soundstage, detail, bass definition and organic-sound are almost 2x better on the HD-650.

  
  
*Soundmagic HP 100* (extremely modded)
 Vs: HD-650: HP-100 mids are the most vivid and lush of all, bass definition is the best of all, yet highs are not quite as organic sounding as HD-650 and soundstage is slightly smaller. Yet the bass definition and mids win above all others in this list. *Absolutely extravagant and heavenly with electronic music*. But HD 650 sounds much better when it comes to acoustic / analogue music as it's more lifelike and 3D, and has slightly better impact.

  
 The general sound of the first 3 headphones doesn't change very much from amp-to-amp, meaning they don't really scale at all and the Elise doesn't do them any favors... But the HD-650 and my specially modded HP-100 are a VASTLY different story when paired with good tubes on the Elise! Overall amazing resolution, refinement in spades, spine tingling surrealism, holographic soundstage, and lifelike enough to get you to turn around frequently to see if the sound you heard was real - that was mostly describing the HD 650 with Elise. And this specially modded HP-100 is something to behold! A total relic of lushness and divinity for electronic music!!
  
 The point: consider yourself lucky to have the  650 or "Tru-Fi" modded HP 100 with the Elise because the pairings are sensational. And forget about the DT-880 (32 ohm anyway), AHD 1001 and DT-150 with the Elise. (I'll pretty much guarantee the HD 558 / 598 / 600, Tru-Fi modded HP 150 and modded Fostex TH-900 are just as good also on the Elise)


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for the review @DecentLevi  !!! 
  
 Glad you're happy with HD650 and modded HP 100. Have you tried a modded HD650? and T1? They're magical on Elise.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Thanks for the review @DecentLevi  !!!
> 
> Glad you're happy with HD650 and modded HP 100. Have you tried a modded HD650? and T1? They're magical on Elise.


 
 I read your review of the HD '850' mod. I'm not sure if I'll go for the coin-hole in center of the foam though because I have tinnitus, and one of the reasons I like HD-650 better than 600 is because the highs are relaxed. Would you say this part of the mod makes the treble sharper / more piercing, or just enhances the overall clarity? I'm still considering the foam removal and dynamat mods if you don't mind telling me a little more on what each of those do to the sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Both foam removal and the coin hole mod enhance high frequencies. It's not piercing to me as I'm used to T1. I consider it clarity and details but if you have a preference for HD650 treble over HD600 and if you have tinnitus, then it might be too much for you.
  
 Dynamat on the back of the drivers tightens up the bass and adds definition. Bass becomes more impactful and less 'bloomy'.
  
 The foam behind the driver suppress high frequencies quite a bit. Removing it shows what the driver is capable of. It's quite a thick foam there and provides a lot of damping.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Haha... I'll need 2 bottles of David's Louis XIII.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I woke up early this morning, and your venture with the DV inspired me to dust off my Little Dot MKIV SE (using C3G drivers). It's really not a bad amp at all. But, OMG, it just reminded me one more time of how truly unique and special the Elise is!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I woke up early this morning, and your venture with the DV inspired me to dust off my Little Dot MKIV SE (using C3G drivers). It's really not a bad amp at all. But, OMG, it just reminded me one more time of how truly unique and special the Elise is!!!


 

 It has been fun listening to Dv336se with the various tubes for a day and then returning to Elise. Above all, I'm still not sick of listening to my test tracks. Whole Lotta Love still sounds good after more than 50 repeats in one day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You hear that @supersonic395 ? Can you handle listening to Whole Lotta Love 50 times in a day? plus all the other tracks in my test playlist.


----------



## Wreckgar7

Anyone knows why the Feliks audio site is down? i was just about to place an order.... i also sent an email to info@feliksaudio.pl (is that the correct adress?) but i got an auto email back saying it couldnt be delivered...... :/


----------



## UntilThen

wreckgar7 said:


> Anyone knows why the Feliks audio site is down? i was just about to place an order.... i also sent an email to info@feliksaudio.pl (is that the correct adress?) but i got an auto email back saying it couldnt be delivered...... :/


 

 I think it's being partially reloaded now. I can see some headphone stands pictures on the Feliks Audio site now. 
  
 Pretty good looking oak timber headphone stands too. 
  
 There's finally an official review of the Expressivo by Feliks Audio from Headfonics.
 http://headfonics.com/2016/03/the-expressivo-by-feliks-audio/
  
@Wreckgar7 that is the correct email address. I suggest you try again shortly.


----------



## Wreckgar7

Alright, thanks alot man


----------



## UntilThen

Well that is an interesting review of the Expressivo by Michael Piskor. 
  
 How about the more accomplished Elise, Mike? Btw Lukasz is more than an employee there. He is a family member.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> It has been fun listening to Dv336se with the various tubes for a day and then returning to Elise. Above all, I'm still not sick of listening to my test tracks. Whole Lotta Love still sounds good after more than 50 repeats in one day.
> 
> You hear that @supersonic395
> ? Can you handle listening to Whole Lotta Love 50 times in a day? plus all the other tracks in my test playlist. :etysmile:




I look forward to it 

Achilles Last Stand reference mix and when the levee breaks


----------



## connieflyer

Still nothing from the Felix site....The requested URL /en/products.html was not found on this server..  Has been that way all afternoon here. Anyone else get anything?  Sent him an email got this response back.....

```
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: [url=mailto:info@feliksaudio.pl]info@feliksaudio.pl[/url] Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain feliksaudio.pl by mail.feliksaudio.pl. [91.227.122.10]. The error that the other server returned was: 550 "Unknown User"
```


----------



## jerick70

This URL works for me http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php


----------



## connieflyer

I just tried that and it does go to his homepage.  Something has changed, perhaps he is on a new server and did not get name change for email or something.  Old saved address did not work...http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.html.  The email I just used for him, I replied back to him from two weeks ago, it was the same one I have been using since I ordered in February, it no longer works.  Do you have an email for him?
  
 This from his webpage...
Feliks Audio 

 ul. Tuwima 2A
 42-700 Lubliniec
 POLAND

 phone: +48 502 184 033
 email: info@feliksaudio.pl
 www.feliksaudio.pl
  
 Latest attempt to email.....

```
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: [url=mailto:info@feliksaudio.pl]info@feliksaudio.pl[/url] Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain feliksaudio.pl by mail.feliksaudio.pl. [91.227.122.10]. The error that the other server returned was: 550 "Unknown User"
```


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> I just tried that and it does go to his homepage.  Something has changed, perhaps he is on a new server and did not get name change for email or something.  Old saved address did not work...http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.html.  The email I just used for him, I replied back to him from two weeks ago, it was the same one I have been using since I ordered in February, it no longer works.  Do you have an email for him?


 
  
 I only have the email address you are using.  It's the same email on their contact page....
  
 http://feliksaudio.pl/en/contact.php


----------



## connieflyer

That is what I thought. Have to try tomorrow again. Thanks


----------



## nykobing

Doesn't work for me either. "Expected completion of your unit is end of March." I'm guessing end of May before it comes.


----------



## connieflyer

Last email I got from him on the 14th said they were having problems getting the chasis's and would be another 2-3 weeks.  Invoice 50, Original order said 6-7 weeks so they have fallen further behind.


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> That is what I thought. Have to try tomorrow again. Thanks


 
  
  


nykobing said:


> Doesn't work for me either. "Expected completion of your unit is end of March." I'm guessing end of May before it comes.


 
  
 I'm guessing they are changing servers.  Hopefully you can get them tomorrow.


----------



## jerick70

I just sold my Elise.  It didn't work to my liking with my new headphones.


----------



## connieflyer

Saw that you sold it, was looking to buy it, while waiting for new one.  What headphones did not work with Elise for you?  I have the Sennheiser 700 up for sale and just got the Senn 800.  Like them with the Ember had good reviews with the Elise I thought.


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Saw that you sold it, was looking to buy it, while waiting for new one.  What headphones did not work with Elise for you?  I have the Sennheiser 700 up for sale and just got the Senn 800.  Like them with the Ember had good reviews with the Elise I thought.


 
  
 I have the ZMF Blackwood, soon to have the ZMF Omni.  The detail just was not there compared with other amps with the Blackwood.  My other headphones were OK with the Elise.  
  
 I had the LCD2 and T1.  I've sold both of these headphones.  The ZMFs are that much better.


----------



## connieflyer

I have heard a little about the ZMF's but never heard one.  I just sent back the Beyer T1, as the left driver was starting to sound muddy, at 6 weeks. Well if I ever get my elise, I am hoping the 800 will do.


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> I have heard a little about the ZMF's but never heard one.  I just sent back the Beyer T1, as the left driver was starting to sound muddy, at 6 weeks. Well if I ever get my elise, I am hoping the 800 will do.


 
  
 I really like the ZMFs.  Plus there is the hand made caveat to them too.  The wood is beautiful.  Oh and they sound incredible too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The only issue is they are a little difficult to drive.  I'm going to get a Woo WA22 and see how they fair with that amp.  The Woo puts out a lot more power than the Elise.
  
 I had a really hard time selling my Elise.  I didn't want to sell but did because of the ZMFs.  I really enjoyed her while I had her.


----------



## connieflyer

Woo Wa 22 is quite an amp, should do the trick.  Starting to get cold feet waiting for elise. Screwed up and bought lots of tubes to roll and adapters while waiting. New I should have waited. Got caught up in the game. Won't happen again, though.


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Woo Wa 22 is quite an amp, should do the trick.  Starting to get cold feet waiting for elise. Screwed up and bought lots of tubes to roll and adapters while waiting. New I should have waited. Got caught up in the game. Won't happen again, though.


 
  
 I understand.  I did that too.  I had a really good experience with the Elise after I got her.  It's just when I got my ZMFs I had to move on.  I think Elise should do well with the HD800s.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for that, and good luck with the Wa22. Let us know how it works out


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Thanks for that, and good luck with the Wa22. Let us know how it works out


 
  
 Your very welcome.  It can be a huge pita waiting for something.  I do think the Elise is worth it.
  
 I'll definitely give my impressions.  Good luck with getting your Elise too.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

Good luck @jerick70 on your continuing journey in head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Don't forget to stop by.


----------



## UntilThen

Feliks Audio website is up and updated. My sympathies to those waiting. I see there's a new stereo tube amp call William. Now who exactly is William? Why William? Why not Bill or Bob or Roger.


----------



## jerick70

untilthen said:


> Good luck @jerick70 on your continuing journey in head-fi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you @UntilThen. It's an interesting journey to be sure.  You think you are done and find something that you have to move on to.
  
 I definitely won't forget to stop by.  You all are an awesome bunch!


----------



## UntilThen

Let's just call this our hobby shall we? We start off with one headphone and one amp, then add a DAC, then we need a dedicated PC or a turntable. We add on JRiver, Audirvana Plus, Sonarworks and what nots. Next we camp eBay for tubes and bid like there's no tomorrow. Next you know, you have 3 drawers full of tubes, cables, power cords and you have no more room for your CDs and vinyls. 
  
 Then a new headphone model comes out, next a new DAC and an exotic amp, etc, etc.
  
 Yup on and on we go. It's a good thing !!! We keep the economy going !!!


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> Let's just call this our hobby shall we? We start off with one headphone and one amp, then add a DAC, then we need a dedicated PC or a turntable. We add on JRiver, Audirvana Plus, Sonarworks and what nots. Next we camp eBay for tubes and bid like there's no tomorrow. Next you know, you have 3 drawers full of tubes, cables, power cords and you have no more room for your CDs and vinyls.
> 
> Then a new headphone model comes out, next a new DAC and an exotic amp, etc, etc.
> 
> Yup on and on we go. It's a good thing !!! We keep the economy going !!!


 

 You just described 99% of those on Head-Fi


----------



## Audict123

You hit the nail on the head there UT.... As with every true hobby, audiophiles are on a never ending journey. Fortunately, there is also quality time with sonic bliss in between.
  
 What about my journey? I took a brief vacation from head-fi to get to know Elise better before I report on my findings. I found out she really benefits from burn in. There is maybe 60 to 80 hours on it now and it (and/or the tubes...) has developed quite a lot. Right out of the box, I felt the lows and low-mids were a bit muddy, a bit slow. Given the sound signature of my Sennheiser HD 650's, that is not a good thing. But I am happy to report that that is gone now. The bass I get now has incredible power - no - SLAM - with speed. Early on, I did a lot of tube rolling looking for more speed in the lows - that was too early I know now. People that advised to first burn in the Elise with stock are right, I should have listened to them... Since a couple of days, I kept the C3Gs and 5998 in and gave it ample hours every day. I can't believe the extension and control I'm now getting on both ends of the spectrum. It's truly addictive....

  
 Some other pairs I really really liked and will revisit soon:
  
 EL3N with Visseaux 6N7G - the reversed combo is also great!

  
  
 Fivre 6N7GT as powers with EL3N as drivers. In this position, the 6N7GT puts out more volume than the Visseaux 6N7G
  

  
  
 By the way: as you can see in the pictures, the shrink tubing on the adapters doesn't move at all. And I like the look a lot more then the white marshmallows  Of course, there are not that many hours on the tubes yet but I doubt that 'creep' will turn into a problem later on.
  
 One let down: like others have reported, my amp does not like the combination of 6N7G as drivers with 6AS7G or 5998 tubes. I have several 6N7G types and none of them works for long without severe distortion. It's not the tubes. They do function well in the back (albeit with lower volume). They do work as drivers with EL3N in the back though. EL3N to the rescue! 6SN7 in the back also works. I couldn't try the combination with 6A6 in the back yet because one of my adapters is faulty. Mrs Xu Ling has kindly shipped another.
 Summarizing the above in a warning: if you don't have your Elise yet, buy only one set of 6N7G and wait until you are sure your Elise likes them... If anyone has an educated guess why some (older?) Elise amps work with them and others (newer ones?) don't please let me know!
  
 Another thing that doesn't work for me is C3G in the back. I get quite a lot of hum them. Nevermind. Still too many combo's to try.... And too many good combo's already to bother.


----------



## UntilThen

@Audict123 your pictures are quite stunning. Very well taken. Are you rolling cameras and lens too? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can identify with all those combinations you have there and they are amongst some of the better combos. Running pair of EL3Ns as power as you have observed, gives a lower gain but nevertheless a good tone.
  
 It's quite disappointing that 6N7G as drivers with 5998 or 6AS7G as powers give you hum/distortions. I don't know why that is the case for you but it works beautifully for me. Sounds really good too. They are in my recommended list in post 9291.
  
 C3G and 5998 with stock HD650 will sound very good. It will provide the sparkle and stoke the flames of your high frequencies. Did you see flames leaping skywards? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think your HD600 will sound good with these combos:-
  
 EL3N with 5998, 6AS7G or 6xEL3N.
  
 Burn in of Elise and the tubes are a must. Feliks Audio recommends a conservative 50 hours for Elise but I think more in the region of 150 hours.
  
 Keep those impressions coming. Great job !!!


----------



## Audict123

No flames UT   In fact, I find the highs with C3G / 5998 energetic but not fatiguing. The HD 650 is a relatively laid-back headphone that can handle quite a lot of sparkle before things get ugly. I guess with T1 things could be diffferent.
  
 Shots are from my Samsung S4, hand held, no flash. Not easy! I take several pics and post only the best...
  
 Next up to try will be EL3N with either 6AS7G (yours!), 6520 or 5998. Previously, I found the 6520 the leanest sounding but I will re-start my evaluation from scratch now that the amp has started to develop so well.


----------



## UntilThen

'My' Chatham 6AS7G I got from skylab. I received them brand new. The yellow letterings were perfect. So I burn them in a bit for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6AS7G has a brighter tone than 6520. I prefer the 6520 tone so I kept that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy. EL3N with 6AS7G, 6520, 5998 together with 7236 and quad EL3N are my favorite combinations with T1 and modded HD650. So I've 10 EL3N. They should last me a lifetime. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 btw I do love your Valvo C3G/s. Such lovely tubes.
  
 Your 1st photo... are those Valvo C3G/s without the metal casing?


----------



## Audict123

Thanks for burning the 6AS7G in. Saves me time  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They sure look brand new. They are also totally silent in my Elise. The 5998 I have is quite microphonic and makes funny noises during warm up, but only in the first minutes and that is improving too.
  
 Yes, the picture I posted are the same C3G/S you have with casing removed. I like tube glow


----------



## UntilThen

The Valvo C3G/s internals are different from the Lorenz C3G. Lorenz have double hexagon shape micas.


----------



## UntilThen

I love 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky. I mean how could you not after having heard it more than 50 times in 2 days. It's not just the cannon balls but listen to the starting intro ... so soothing the violins.
  
 However I reckon this is a good performance.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I love 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky. I mean how could you not after having heard it more than 50 times in 2 days. It's not just the cannon balls but listen to the starting intro ... so soothing the violins.
> 
> However I reckon this is a good performance.




  
 Wow UT...now _*there's*_ a blast from the past - Charlie Drake! (not much mention made of him these days, lol...).
  
 And yes indeed....the Feliks site is back in business - and what a nice collection of amps they have too! (I _love_ the design of that Arioso...and what a great looking price also!). As for the price of the Espressivo - well...I would imagine there's nothing to touch it anywhere near the money!


----------



## mordy

I mentioned to Lukasz that the Elise needs much more than 50 hours of burn in. He replied that they underestimated the burn in time, and that 150 hours is more like it.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> I mentioned to Lukasz that the Elise needs much more than 50 hours of burn in. He replied that they underestimated the burn in time, and that 150 hours is more like it.


 
  
 Yes indeed mordy....Elise most certainly benefits greatly from the longer burn-in, lol!


----------



## connieflyer

Yes we were rebuilding our website and email servers over the weekend. It's working again now.
 Regards
 Lukasz


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Yes we were rebuilding our website and email servers over the weekend. It's working again now.
> Regards
> Lukasz




Good to hear. Here's to getting your Elise soon. Cheers!


----------



## connieflyer

Did you get the WA-22 yet, there is one for sale here.....http://www.head-fi.org/t/800243/woo-audio-wa2-silver-tube-upgrades..looking to see what else is available.
  
 Or this......http://www.head-fi.org/t/804135/for-sale-woo-audio-wa2


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Did you get the WA-22 yet, there is one for sale here.....http://www.head-fi.org/t/800243/woo-audio-wa2-silver-tube-upgrades..looking to see what else is available.
> 
> Or this......http://www.head-fi.org/t/804135/for-sale-woo-audio-wa2


 
  
 Not yet.  I purchased it this weekend from @a1uc here on the forums.  He was selling on Audiogon.  Should be here before the end of this week.


----------



## WB2016

I thought it was for William Tell the opera, but then I understood it was most likely a modernized version of a William amplifier. Very retro but I guess modern.
http://dalmura.com.au/projects/Williamson.php

That is my guess. Also sounds a whole lot better than bob, the Bob amp... Still cannot stand bob, even in clearaudio the fat bob. Bob apart from not imparting stability e.g. bobbing in the UK "bob" is also five cents so not exactly conveying worth a lot of money.

Thought that would help.
WB


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Yes we were rebuilding our website and email servers over the weekend. It's working again now.
> 
> 
> Regards
> ...



 


Yeah that delayed everything a bit, new headphone stand, new website and a new amp. My Elise will ship in the next days (Invoice 46) so the wait for you should just about be over. I am toying with the idea of the stand to save on shipping, depending on the price. 

The William amp looks interesting, its likely is a design similar to the old Williams amps of the 40s. Some things seem to be so retro they are great again. 

Best speakers I heard were the Western Electric original 1930s, powered by 2 or 3 watts!!! at the High End in Munich at the Silbatone stand. Unheard of, what you design when the only amps were weak tube amps
And I heard my share of million dollar systems. Funny how things are. (The original WE 30s speakers will likely make a million GBP system but that is another story, there are only a handful left rebuilds are relativelly reasonable but will get you divorced if you bring it into the livingroom) Whoever goes to the High End don't miss the Silbatone stand!! Its quality varies but always shocking to hear something like that. Has to be heard.

Cheers 
WB


----------



## WB2016

audict123 said:


> You hit the nail on the head there UT.... As with every true hobby, audiophiles are on a never ending journey. Fortunately, there is also quality time with sonic bliss in between.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Finally a good solution for those white bases. Look pretty decent. Is it just regular heat shrink? What size did you get? Should order some as well. Know that is going to drive me nuts. Good idea.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

wb2016 said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > Yes we were rebuilding our website and email servers over the weekend. It's working again now.
> ...



 


No actually the WE were 1926 I believe.

Regards
WB


----------



## WB2016

Well if you want to hear the first hifispeaker ever buit, some history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpcG7ceQz6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAhaKcnfBig
Unfortunately the sound is only so so and does not capture the texture and dimensionality very well. Also the room is far too low, but still worth a ticket to Munich if they ever show it again. This is where everything started and fairly omnidirectional as well ah progress. Puts a smile on my face and glad the retro Williams amp made me remember this. Maybe someone else will also like the history of hifi. This is where it all started!!!


Ah and the budget version, maybe the first budget speakers in the world, not bad either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olFzozK9ric



A slightly better audio recording and much more living room friendly but massively limited by the room. Also they use one horn for highs and midhighs, none for mids and just one for mid-lows, but it will give you a bit of an idea, soundstage in reality is mindboggling on these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz9O2YIh228

If your significant other complains about your speakers tell them the first system is what you really want, that will stop all complaints right there

Cheers WB


----------



## Audict123

wb2016 said:


> Finally a good solution for those white bases. Look pretty decent. Is it just regular heat shrink? What size did you get? Should order some as well. Know that is going to drive me nuts. Good idea.
> 
> Cheers
> WB


 
 Hello there WB2016! My Elise no 45, so you were the one next in line.... Hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do!
  
 The shrink tubing I used is this one:
  
http://www.ebay.de/itm/161806635900?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Yes, it's regular tubing but really wide at 50mm. If you look at my earlier posts (just google Audict123 Elise shrink and you'll find them), there are instructions too...


----------



## WB2016

audict123 said:


> Hello there WB2016! My Elise no 45, so you were the one next in line.... Hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do!
> 
> The shrink tubing I used is this one:
> 
> ...



 

Thanks
WB


----------



## UntilThen

Black and White


----------



## connieflyer

Saw Black and White and thought you meant Roy Orbison's  Black and White nights DVD!


----------



## UntilThen

The Black and White album is perfect for the Black and White combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 With the B&W headphone.


----------



## aqsw

I have a couple of fdd20s with mrsx adaptors, and a power supply. They have never been used, and never will. I'm real happy with my combo im using. I have 10 el3ns.

Anyways,

I just bought a car. The first person that gives the year, make, model, and manufacture colour wins the tubes, adapters, and power supply.

I will post my first "hint" on Friday.

P.S. e
This is only open to " the lucky ones" and others that have an Elise on order. Im paying all shipping.


----------



## aqsw

I understand, not alot of people want exteral heat anymore. 
My EL3Ns took care of that, but I must say the fdd20 and ecc31 soundd pretty good.

BUT, ITS FREE,,,,,,


----------



## DecentLevi

So on about the 20th day something special really seems to have happened with my Elise: It's like the heavens opened up and are shining down on me... or as if some alien magic juice has slipped into this relic of an amp while I was sleeping!!! No this is not sarcasm, but my attempt to use words to describe the sound I'm hearing now! Man am I looking forward to doing a face-off between a burned in Elise with TOTL tubes and the Zana Deux with it's standard tubes.
  
 UT this is for you too
  

  

  
  
 Oh and PS - look at who's just become a supremus!


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats on your new title and thanks for some funky beat. Now can I borrow the Zana Deux S.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I understand, not alot of people want exteral heat anymore.
> My EL3Ns took care of that, but I must say the fdd20 and ecc31 soundd pretty good.
> 
> BUT, ITS FREE,,,,,,


 
 Haha AQ are you giving away your fdd20 for free? They are good sounding but I'm lazy to connect the 12v. Even my ECC31 is sitting in the drawer.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Congrats on your new title and thanks for some funky beat. Now can I borrow the Zana Deux S.


 
 Yup, from now on only Supremus's are allowed on this thread, and any dissent will result in instant banishment from these lands... or a late April fool's day joke anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So UT did you say you can borrow a ZD amp? 
  
 And @aqsw I'm curious if you've tried the six EL3N yet?


----------



## pctazhp

Where else can I go and find Roy Orbison and Earth, Wind and Fire virtually back-to-back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've been haunting some other threads trying to entice a few lucky ones in this direction)))


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow I'm not the only one that's guilty of that - I've learned you have to be really crafty / polished with your words in order to get people from other threads interested in the Elise without igniting any '*heated discussions*', as @hypnos1 coined it - and have probably risked my account several times in convincing them. I told Lukasz I will give him some free promotion in exchange for the low initial deposit, but really I do it to spread the joy!


----------



## DavidA

I don't have an Elise yet but this thread is really enjoyable, unlike some of the other threads were there is too much negative comments, one up manship and fanboy like behavior.


----------



## UntilThen

I hereby promote you 2 to Supremus salesman. Now DL send that ZD amp to my address.


----------



## aqsw

​Ò





decentlevi said:


> Yup, from now on only Supremus's are allowed on this thread, and any dissent will result in instant banishment from these lands... or a late April fool's day joke anyway
> 
> So UT did you say you can borrow a ZD amp?
> 
> ...




No 6 el3ns.
I use them as two drivers with stock or 6080 powers. Only way my Ether Cs sound good. And they sounad very good.
I really never got sll the hype on different tubes. All I knew was alot of tubes didn't work with my amp that worked with other Elises. I use the ones that work with my amp.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Ò
> No 6 el3ns.
> I use them as rwo drivers with stock or 6080 powers. Only way my Ether Cs sound good. And they sounad very good.
> I really never got sll the hype on different tubes. All I knew was alot of tubes didn't work with my amp that worked with other Elises. I use the ones that work with my amp.


 

 Good on you AQ. Stick to what works. With planar magnetics, use EL3N and standard power tubes like what you have. Glad your Ether-C is sounding good.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I have a couple of fdd20s with mrsx adaptors, and a power supply. They have never been used, and never will. I'm real happy with my combo im using. I have 10 el3ns.
> 
> Anyways,
> 
> ...


 
  
*TEN* EL3Ns, aq?...you in competition with @UntilThen at all?!...or could it just be you rather like 'em, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (I would think you've got several lifetimes' worth there...._hopefully!_).
  
 From what you say, they do indeed seem to be doing the job nicely for you...I'm really glad you finally found the tubes to deliver the sort of glorious sound Elise is capable of, and with your Ethers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ps.  That's one great tease of a competition...and a very generous one - depending on how easy the clues are LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
  


pctazhp said:


> Where else can I go and find Roy Orbison and Earth, Wind and Fire virtually back-to-back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey...careful, pct - you'll be pinching UT's and @DecentLevi's commission lol!... (remember, they're now BOTH supremuses!! - well done DL!).


----------



## hypnos1

davida said:


> I don't have an Elise yet but this thread is really enjoyable, unlike some of the other threads were there is too much negative comments, one up manship and fanboy like behavior.


 
  
 Glad you're enjoying things here already, DavidA...yeah, a great bunch of guys - but as I said many moons ago : where are the _*gals*_, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps.  Sincerely hope there won't be any negative comments from _yourself_, once she's in your possession....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 CJ


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  !!!  I'm getting a turntable. !!!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  !!!  I'm getting a turntable. !!!


 
  
 Oh yes, UT...and what about that Gustard X20 DAC, lol?...or Hegel, even!!...and how can you afford a really nice TT, now pct and DL are snaffling your commission?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Ah well, GOOD LUCK anyway, mon ami...I just hope that somehow you will be able to banish surface noise - the wonderful clarity and resolving ability of Elise that I am getting from my own system.... (as I'm sure is everyone else!)...makes this possible aspect of vinyl not such a good experience through my T1s as compared to speakers, alas. I simply cannot train my brain to ignore it sufficiently - and I have a fairly reasonable TT system...but no 'audiophile' pressings alas!
  
 ps. Looks like it needs a good long while yet for full concensus on the Gustard - especially for us here in 240V land....it appears the unit's 220V spec. may not be quite flexible enough to cope well with the occasional swings to 240+ in the mains supply, with subsequent negative effects on SQ. But perhaps this - and a couple of other 'tweaks' that seem to be almost essential for better performance - will be looked at as a part of ongoing assessment by the makers..._hopefully!!_...
  
 CHEERS with the TT, though!...


----------



## UntilThen

Just an entry level Denon Belt Drive DP300F. Gift from the wife so can't complain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's fully automatic operation so should be good if I fall asleep while the record is spinning. Now to get my 1st LP.


----------



## DavidA

hypnos1 said:


> Glad you're enjoying things here already, DavidA...yeah, a great bunch of guys - but as I said many moons ago : where are the _*gals*_, lol?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I already have the gal, she's sitting right next to me, she likes music, even came with her own HD-700 and SR-125.
  
 As for the Elise, as I'm mentioned to UT, still doing research on it, might go a little higher up the food chain (used Liquid Glass) or WA22.
  
 Only negative comment if I ever decide to get an Elise is the waiting time is way too long.


----------



## hypnos1

davida said:


> I already have the gal, she's sitting right next to me, she likes music, even came with her own HD-700 and SR-125.
> 
> As for the Elise, as I'm mentioned to UT, still doing research on it, might go a little higher up the food chain (used Liquid Glass) or WA22.
> 
> Only negative comment if I ever decide to get an Elise is the waiting time is way too long.


 
  
 Glad you obviously don't have to retreat to some 'den' for your music pleasure...LUCKY YOU!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I wish there were more crazy female 'nuts' like us guys inhabiting these threads, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(perhaps they're just too _sensible?!!_





...).
  
 I suspect you'd have to pay a good bit more for a _new_ unit that will surpass Elise, and possibly with an even longer wait (especially for something made-to-order). But something in the (reliable) used domain might indeed possibly be an option. Whatever, I wish you all the best in your deliberations and final choice...please keep us informed, whichever path you choose - you have already been a most welcome guest here...along with a host of others LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Best,
 CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Ah well, GOOD LUCK anyway, mon ami...I just hope that somehow you will be able to banish surface noise - the wonderful clarity and resolving ability of Elise that I am getting from my own system.... (as I'm sure is everyone else!)...makes this possible aspect of vinyl not such a good experience through my T1s as compared to speakers, alas. I simply cannot train my brain to ignore it sufficiently - and I have a fairly reasonable TT system...but no 'audiophile' pressings alas!




Quick note on LP surface noise.

Cartridge alignment is crucial. When the cart is perfectly aligned on a arm with proper geometry, surface noise is greatly diminished.

It can be a real pain to do the alignment (requires a lot of patience) but once golden, you will notice a big difference. 

Clean grooves essential, too, I have had the greatest success with used vinyl with the "wood glue" method (requires patience but works really well to deep clean):



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gyvipBs6Vs[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1
> !!!  I'm getting a turntable. !!!




Gift from your wife!

That is really nice. And, she knows ho to keep you busy, and out of her hair


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Quick note on LP surface noise.
> 
> Cartridge alignment is crucial. When the cart is perfectly aligned on a arm with proper geometry, surface noise is greatly diminished.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow!!! That sure brings back memories. Tweaking vinyl can make our tube-rolling-enabled Elieses look like a boombox from Walmart. Do they still make boomboxes???


----------



## connieflyer

Tried the wood glue cleaning method, but my suv is still dirty and now glue doesn't want to come off.  Oh I see just for vinyl, you should be more concise!  If I do that with all my vinyl it would take 20 gallons at least! Have heard it works though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> If I do that with all my vinyl it would take 20 gallons at least! Have heard it works though.




Only do it for ones that really need it.

It cannot repair damaged vinyl but plain old "horribly dirty" vinyl can be brought to a state of complete playable/enjoyment. A gallon of the glue is about $20.00 and cleans both sides of about 80 records (use 3/4 dixie cup per side), so your cost is about 25 cents per LP...

Not bad when you see/hear shiny 'new looking' vinyl from dirty thrift store finds...

I have a "clean pile" and do 2 or 4, a weekend. It's too slow a process, to get excited about "doing them all"  

Cheers



PS - it also takes practice to get the glue spread evenly. So practice on vinyl you don't care about. Use a "Garage Table", can make a mess of the donor table.

Sorry for the SideCar...now back to tube talk 

.


----------



## supersonic395

wb2016 said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > Yes we were rebuilding our website and email servers over the weekend. It's working again now.
> ...




Has your Elise shipped yet, or is going to ship in the next few days?


----------



## connieflyer

If I don't hear anything positive from them in a week I may cancel order and go with my first pick.....http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=NewProducts&ProductId=MHA100


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> If I don't hear anything positive from them in a week I may cancel order and go with my first pick.....http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=NewProducts&ProductId=MHA100


 
  
 That would be my first choice too.  Unfortunately it's a bit beyond my budget.


----------



## connieflyer

Budget?  That was blown so long ago I don't even think about it!  Waiting for the knock on the door, from the money police, I will just stick out my hands, be cuffed and go quietly!  Pricey to be sure, but Mc's have always had a large spot in my heart.  Must be the big blue gauges!


----------



## Demo3

Feliks web page down?  http://feliksau.unixstorm.org/en/


----------



## UntilThen

demo3 said:


> Feliks web page down?  http://feliksau.unixstorm.org/en/


 

 This http://www.feliksaudio.pl. It's up.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> I already have the gal, she's sitting right next to me, she likes music, even came with her own HD-700 and SR-125.
> 
> As for the Elise, as I'm mentioned to UT, still doing research on it, might go a little higher up the food chain (used Liquid Glass) or WA22.
> 
> Only negative comment if I ever decide to get an Elise is the waiting time is way too long.


 

 You need to buy 2 tube amps. One for your gal and Elise for yourself. There's competition then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 As H1 says, you're welcome here anytime regardless.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Gift from your wife!
> 
> That is really nice. And, she knows ho to keep you busy, and out of her hair


 

 She's keeping me occupied and out of trouble. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any good the Denon DP300F ? All I want is to see some LP spinning and I think my 1st LP will be Dire Straits Remastered.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Quick note on LP surface noise.
> 
> Cartridge alignment is crucial. When the cart is perfectly aligned on a arm with proper geometry, surface noise is greatly diminished.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV...alignment done by pros; disc grooves absolutely spotless; 'zerostat' static sorted....still no "deathly black" background I've come to love, I fear - gonna stick to digital alas...especially good hi-res originals or remasters (for the T1s at least!). But will give vinyl an occasional whirl when I (rarely now!) manage to enjoy the Dynaudios and rattle the window frames, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


connieflyer said:


> Budget?  That was blown so long ago I don't even think about it!  Waiting for the knock on the door, from the money police, I will just stick out my hands, be cuffed and go quietly!  Pricey to be sure, but Mc's have always had a large spot in my heart.  Must be the big blue gauges!


 
  
 Wow connie...totally different ballpark, methinks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....and as for the rip-off price here in the UK - $4,500 in the US...*$7300* here?...you must be joking LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Budget?  That was blown so long ago I don't even think about it!  Waiting for the knock on the door, from the money police, I will just stick out my hands, be cuffed and go quietly!  Pricey to be sure, but Mc's have always had a large spot in my heart.  Must be the big blue gauges!


 

 connie there's a matching Mc turntable to go with it.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Can anybody who owns (owned?) or extensively heard the Elise compare it to Icon Audio's HP8 Mk2? Very much in doubt between the two... 
At the sideline, there is also the Trafomatic Head One... 
Thanks for chiming in!


----------



## nykobing

Connieflyer -
  
 Mine shipped last week and went through customs in NYC yesterday. They never told me it shipped or anything in the process of it being built. I just randomly mailed them the other day when people were having trouble with their email to them. Even though it bounced back as undeliverable, they must have gotten the email. Yours must be in the next week then or maybe it already shipped.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I just inadverdently introduced a new member to the Elise community. @richard89 was considering to buy my Ember but apparently I was a little "too honest" of a salesman when he asked about the Ember compared to the Elise (to which I mentioned there is no comparison at all and the latter is end game material; glorious and in it's own world for price-to-performance-ratio).
  
 Richard, congrats on buying the Elise and I'm sure we will enjoy having you around here. Did you order with the stock tubes? @UntilThen is the best guy for tube advice, depending on your budget...
  
 PS- I do gotta hand it to the Ember as a pre-amp though. That never gets obsolete and I may even prefer it to the Elise if only as a pre-amp


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for your feedback Nykobing. It should not be too much longer, mine is number 50 so I would assume it should be in process somewhere.


----------



## DecentLevi

BTW, Richard89 makes the 4th (I think) 'convert' from the Ember thread the Elise (me, Connieflyer, DavidA, Richard89)... now what about  @richard51 and @HOWIE13?


----------



## richard89

decentlevi said:


> Well I just inadverdently introduced a new member to the Elise community. @richard89 was considering to buy my Ember but apparently I was a little "too honest" of a salesman when he asked about the Ember compared to the Elise (to which I mentioned there is no comparison at all and the latter is end game material; glorious and in it's own world for price-to-performance-ratio).
> 
> Richard, congrats on buying the Elise and I'm sure we will enjoy having you around here. Did you order with the stock tubes? @UntilThen is the best guy for tube advice, depending on your budget...


 
 Hi everyone, thanks for the welcome DecentLevi.
  
 Yeah I went ahead and purchased the one with stock tubes.. was on the market for an end game amp to pair with my NFB-15 DAC... I've read several pages have seen the great reviews... I may be looking to get a T1 or HE-560 as well to pair with it based on the reviews from UntilThen. I'm planning to purchase some of the tubes I've seen mentioned in this thread during the wait for the Elise and have some notes already: the Quad 3L3N and the 6SN7 Drivers + 6AS7GA. 
  
 I understand there are many 6SN7 Drivers though of different kinds... I'm more of a basshead... If anyone can mention some favorite combos with wonderful bass I'd appreciate it. Again thank you for the welcome


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome Richard89, one thing about this forum, it moves fast, if you take a couple of days off and come back, sometimes you have to go back and see what transpired. For as short a time as this forum has been up, it is way up in page count.  The folks here are very friendly, and helpful.  Mine should be here before long, and will be able to confirm or deny what everyone else says about the Elise.  @UntilThen is very knowledgeable as well as helpful.  I have gotten lots of PM's from him and he has steered me to a lot of good tubes with good prices as well. I have been using an Ember for about a year now, serial number 43, so it looks like my Elise is number 50, so I am on a roll.  Will have to play the Lotto with those numbers. If you need help or advice feel free to jump in anytime.  Don


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Budget?  That was blown so long ago I don't even think about it!  Waiting for the knock on the door, from the money police, I will just stick out my hands, be cuffed and go quietly!  Pricey to be sure, but Mc's have always had a large spot in my heart.  Must be the big blue gauges!


 
 LOL to funny! I know the feeling ...ROFL


----------



## UntilThen

This thread is moving too fast for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@CoLdAsSauLt I haven't heard an Icon Audio HP8 Mk2 nor do I know of anyone here having mention one. So unfortunately I cannot give you any feedback on Elise vs HP8.
  
 Welcome to Elise thread @richard89 and congrats on taking the plunge with an order. You will not be disappointed. I have in post #9291 a list of tube combinations that I like with T1, HD650 and HE560.
  
 Of the 3 headphones with Elise, my preference are T1 and modded HD650. 
  
 I am currently very fond of this combo. EL3N as drivers and Chatham 6520 as power tubes. Chatham 6AS7G and 6520 are very similar.
 Generally I would recommend a pair of Philips EL3N as drivers and take your pick on these power tubes as your budget allows - 
  
 Tung Sol 5998 - good bass 
 Tung Sol 7236 - similar to 5998 but leaner and tighter tone
 Chatham 6520 or Chatham 6AS7G
  
 You'll also find in post 9291, links to where you can buy Philips EL3N tubes for 20 euro excluding VAT or 25 euro including VAT. You will need adapters for EL3N, links are also in that post.
  
 These combos have solid bass. 
  
 ps.. skip quad EL3N unless you want to go with 6xEL3N. With HE560, you'll need  six EL3N or go with the above combos.
  
 Lastly, listen with the stock tubes first. It's quite decent.
  
 pss .. C3G and Tung Sol 5998 is another stunning combo with stock HD650. @Audict123 will tell you how much bass he's getting.


----------



## UntilThen

@richard89 this is an unlikely combination that sounds good and has a very solid bass too but it needs quite a lot of adapters. The tubes are quite cheap so that's a plus.
  
 Here's a photo and I shall elaborate on the tubes.
  


 2xEL3N as drivers and adapters. I covered these in the post above.
  
 You need 2 adapters for the power tubes
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-Gold-plated-6BL7-TO-6AS7-tube-converter-adapter/191792226144?_trksid=p999999.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D4265f1f9e3b1451e8d51ac518387aab1%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D191850787735
  
 2x6BL7 for example
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6BL7GTA-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Tested-2-/252346231680?hash=item3ac101eb80:g:VjgAAOSwxp9W2alx
  
 2x6N7 for example
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-Sylvania-USA-6N7-Metal-Vacuum-Tubes-100-/152065566028?hash=item2367d0654c:g:Jw8AAOSwe7BWzfFU
  
 2x 6N7 to 6SN7 adapters
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter-/201408123468?hash=item2ee4dc124c:g:3-UAAOSwMmBVvXRv
  
 If you don't mind the looks, this combination has a solid bass.


----------



## richard89

> You will need adapters for EL3N


 
  
 I'm a bit new to this. If I were to use the EL3N shouldn't it be technically called a 6SN7 to EL3N adapter -- since on the manual is says the input is 6SN7?


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> I'm a bit new to this. If I were to use the EL3N shouldn't it be technically called a 6SN7 to EL3N adapter -- since on the manual is says the input is 6SN7?


 

 No it should be EL3N to 6SN7 because you're using a EL3N tube into 6SN7. The bottom part of the adapter are 6SN7 pins that goes into Elise sockets.


----------



## Suuup

richard89 said:


> I'm a bit new to this. If I were to use the EL3N shouldn't it be technically called a 6SN7 to EL3N adapter -- since on the manual is says the input is 6SN7?


 
 Depends on your perspective. The adapter is 'converting' the EL3N into a 6SN7.


----------



## UntilThen

Stock tubes are very solid in bass too. You'll be pleased. I'm revisiting stock tubes now and listening to Dire Straits Remastered with modded HD650. It is very good sounding with classic rock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So be sure to try out the stock tubes first. Btw what headphone do you have now @richard89?


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> Stock tubes are very solid in bass too. You'll be pleased. I'm revisiting stock tubes now and listening to Dire Straits Remastered with modded HD650. It is very good sounding with classic rock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. I only have the HD650 right now and am trying to get the most as I can out of them as I heard they can be crazy good with different amps. I purchased a Questyle QP1R last week and connected it to my NFB-15 via Toslink to use a DAC and the sound stage I thought was great. I'm mainly looking for something that will affect the sound in a similar way. Good sound stage, good bass, basically the best I can achieve for the HD650. 
  
 Would you say the combo you mentioned above with fit this bill? With the 2 X EL3N,  26BL7, 26N7? It seems a bit overwhelming (price wise).
  
 I think I will wait and save up during the time the Elise gets here and try out some of the combos you just mentioned. Once again thanks for all the help


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> Thanks. I only have the HD650 right now and am trying to get the most as I can out of them as I heard they can be crazy good with different amps. I purchased a Questyle QP1R last week and connected it to my NFB-15 via Toslink to use a DAC and the sound stage I thought was great. I'm mainly looking for something that will affect the sound in a similar way. Good sound stage, good bass, basically the best I can achieve for the HD650.
> 
> Would you say the combo you mentioned above with fit this bill? With the 2 X EL3N,  26BL7, 26N7? It seems a bit overwhelming (price wise).


 

 Well you're in luck because HD650 sounds very good with Elise and the tube combinations I mentioned.
  
 A week ago if you ask me to mod my HD650, I would have roll on the floor laughing like Jerick's gif but it's sounding so good now even with stock tubes I'm astounded. 
  
 Even though I mentioned 2 x EL3N, 2x6BL7 and 2x6N7, I still think you should go with the other combos as it's simpler, not overwhelming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and sounds better in my opinion.


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> Well you're in luck because HD650 sounds very good with Elise and the tube combinations I mentioned.
> 
> A week ago if you ask me to mod my HD650, I would have roll on the floor laughing like Jerick's gif but it's sounding so good now even with stock tubes I'm astounded.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Again thank you for all the help, I'm going to wait until it arrives and then see what happens. I'm interested in the 6 EL3N along the with Tung Sol variations. do the EL3N powers use the same adapters as the EL3N drivers? Where can I find the EL3N double adapters for the powers?


----------



## UntilThen

You're welcome. There's no hurry with tube rolling. Take your time and enjoy your music with the new gear.
  
 EL3N powers use the same adapters as the EL3N drivers.
  
 For dual EL3N adapters, you get it here - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


----------



## richdytch

Well it's nearly 10 weeks since I ordered my Elise. The forecast was 6-7 weeks... I emailed Lukasz who was very apologetic and told me that they're having trouble sourcing some components. To be honest, having seen some other mentions of their delays on the thread, I feel bad having hassled him. I'm sure it's worth waiting for. And supplier problems can be an absolute nightmare for a small company. 
  
 But in the meantime, the Elise is the sole missing link in my new signal chain ... so I'm getting very itchy. Had to ditch the little dot mkiii as a preamp because the levels of hum I was experiencing with the tubes I liked were too high when going into my Quad 909. Back to my old Marantz pm7001ki, which is ... just.... ok. 
  
 Fingers crossed.


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome @richdytch .  So we have quite a few who are waiting for Elise. Feliks Audio is a small family business setup. Every unit is hand assembled, tested and QC so they are not going to be able to turn out large volume like mass production. You're quite right too that there will be occasional snag with supplier problems. They seem to produce in batches of 2 or 3. Considering the turnaround time and the orders they are getting, it's not really that bad.
  
 You have the right approach, that is wait for it patiently. I think yours should be soon. Also Elise works very well as a preamp as you intended. It will also sound very good with your headphones.


----------



## richdytch

Hi UntilThen, totally agree. I'm going to occupy myself and let time do its thing. I was after something which is a good preamp and headphone amp - I use both a lot, so the Elise seemed like the natural choice. 
  
 Sorry for not saying hello, introducing myself, etc - I've been a lurker on this thread for a while


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Hi UntilThen, totally agree. I'm going to occupy myself and let time do its thing. I was after something which is a good preamp and headphone amp - I use both a lot, so the Elise seemed like the natural choice.
> 
> Sorry for not saying hello, introducing myself, etc - I've been a lurker on this thread for a while


 

 It's good to have met you. We look forward to hear from you how Elise will perform as preamp into the Quad 909 which is a very solid and good stereo power amp from what I've read in AbsoluteSound review of 2010. 140w into 8ohms per channel. Tasty.


----------



## Suuup

I am not sure why we keep apologizing for the delay on Elises. It seems to me that every Elise has been delayed. Sure, Elise is absolutely great, and the guys over at FA are doing great work. They're still consistently late though, and I don't feel like we should actually apologize for that. I'd suggest to the FA team that they add on a few weeks when they estimate the build time on all Elises.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> It's good to have met you. We look forward to hear from you how Elise will perform as preamp into the Quad 909 which is a very solid and good stereo power amp from what I've read in AbsoluteSound review of 2010. 140w into 8ohms per channel. Tasty.


 
  
 Thanks UntilThen! I'm so pleased with the Quad - I did quite a lot of research and eventually decided that it was probably the best bang I could get for my buck. I've not been disappointed at all - it's really got the grip my PMC speakers need and there's a lovely smoothness to it, which complements the speakers well.


----------



## richdytch

suuup said:


> I am not sure why we keep apologizing for the delay on Elises. It seems to me that every Elise has been delayed. Sure, Elise is absolutely great, and the guys over at FA are doing great work. They're still consistently late though, and I don't feel like we should actually apologize for that. I'd suggest to the FA team that they add on a few weeks when they estimate the build time on all Elises.


 
 Yeah, might be good to just add a few weeks on - I doubt that being told something like 2-3 months would have stopped me placing an order


----------



## richard51

decentlevi said:


> BTW, Richard89 makes the 4th (I think) 'convert' from the Ember thread the Elise (me, Connieflyer, DavidA, Richard89)... now what about  @richard51 and @HOWIE13?


 

 I am interested by the Elise for sure and read this thread and your posts particularly... For now i have a SS Sansui au 7700, and no money to try the Elise for some months  to come, it is one of the 2 interesting tube amp i am interested in....
  
 BUT my discovery in the last months is that : not many people are conscious that ALL audio product are plague by vibration , dac, amp, headphone, etc and the solution is simple; sorbothane, the least costly and the greatest of all upgrade properly implemented... I invite you all to read the most important thread Of Edstrelow about that... salutations to all...i apologize for my rhetoric but this information has been very important to my audiophile life...


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> BTW, Richard89 makes the 4th (I think) 'convert' from the Ember thread the Elise (me, Connieflyer, DavidA, Richard89)... now what about  @richard51 and @HOWIE13?


 
 Thanks for the mention. I have thought long and hard about Elise and followed this exciting thread assiduously, but am unhappy about laying out a load of money for several weeks for no return.
 I would prefer to have my name on a waiting list, maybe pay a modest deposit, and the main payment withdrawn only when the manufacturer is ready to start building the amp. Isn't that what should happen?
 I am sure it's a great amp though. I have nothing against Feliks Audio as I have already just bought their Expressivo as it only takes 2-3 weeks to dispatch from ordering.


----------



## Wreckgar7

Hi guys, so i finally made the leap and ordered the Elise  So far my audio journey has been a nice race, i got me the HD650 about a year ago and bought myself a o2/odac which i enjoyed for a good while, but knew something was missing. Soo i read alot about how a good tube amp is the way to go, so i ordered the Little dot mk IV SE and naturally started tube rolling 
  
 Now im sitting here with 6sn7gta Chrome domes as power tubes and siemens C3g as drivers. It sounds nice, but im not looking for "just" nice, sooo 2 days ago i read about how #UntilThen modded his HD650 aand as the curious guy i am, had to to it, removed the back foam and spider (still waiting for the Dynamat from ebay) and WOOW what a transformation, that veil i always noticed about the 650 is GONE and im sitting here with a nice smile on my face listening to music 
  
 Cant wait to get the Elise on my hands. Feliks also told me about 7 weeks, but we have a saying here in Sweden, he who waits for something good never wait to long


----------



## oshipao

wreckgar7 said:


> Hi guys, so i finally made the leap and ordered the Elise  So far my audio journey has been a nice race, i got me the HD650 about a year ago and bought myself a o2/odac which i enjoyed for a good while, but knew something was missing. Soo i read alot about how a good tube amp is the way to go, so i ordered the Little dot mk IV SE and naturally started tube rolling
> 
> Now im sitting here with 6sn7gta Chrome domes as power tubes and siemens C3g as drivers. It sounds nice, but im not looking for "just" nice, sooo 2 days ago i read about how #UntilThen modded his HD650 aand as the curious guy i am, had to to it, removed the back foam and spider (still waiting for the Dynamat from ebay) and WOOW what a transformation, that veil i always noticed about the 650 is GONE and im sitting here with a nice smile on my face listening to music
> 
> Cant wait to get the Elise on my hands. Feliks also told me about 7 weeks, but we have a saying here in Sweden, he who waits for something good never wait to long




Väntar alltid för länge ska det väl vara  (swedish saying ...always waits too long)

When you get your amp there will be at least two Elises in Sweden 

No experienced Elise owners who uses the standard 6SN7 tubes? Thinking of tryimg the EL3N as drivers after I listened to stock. And ECC31 mullards, do they fare well as drivers ? (might have been mentioned before).

Have a great night/day now everyone!


----------



## hypnos1

WELCOME to the club @richard89, @Wreckgar7 and hi to @richard51 and @HOWIE13...good to hear from you all.
  
 Plenty of questions that I'm sure will have more light shone on them by all the folks here over the coming weeks/months. Hopefully you'll also have time to look back over the mountain(s!) of good work already done here on all related subjects - yes, I know it's a mammoth task, but well worth the effort in the end...honestly!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For those who are interested in knowing more about the 6SN7 family - I'm afraid most of us have strayed away from the very drivers Elise was originally specified for, lol! - the two threads dedicated to just these tubes are very good indeed, and this page at Brent Jesse  gives a very good overall picture of the family : http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
  
 A good many of us have found the EL3N driver (+ adapters) to give all we could wish for...with excellent (quality) bass also...which, @oshipao, most found to equal the mighty ECC31 (another great tube that transformed Elise).
  
 And so we all look forward to hearing more from you very soon...CHEERS!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
*                                                               NOW A FEW WORDS ON DELAYS, ETC...*
  
I too have been somewhat concerned about recent (increased!) delays, and I can understand and appreciate the frustration it may cause.
  
As has already been explained, the made-to-order nature of this product is invariably subject to the vagaries of component suppliers, especially when only relatively small numbers of units are involved, and I have had confirmation today from Lukasz that they have indeed recently been having problems with said supply quality, especially the chassis...and will not compromise at all in this area despite causing inevitable delay, for which he is most apologetic. They have in fact now changed the chassis supplier and hope things should now be well back on track...
  
I did also point out to him the dearth of up-to-date information for those still waiting, and the need to "beef" things up in this department - I think he got the message loud and clear!...(if not, I will remind him once more - if it proves necessary!). He has also taken note of the suggestions to try and give more accurate estimates of lead time, and confirms that it will still be longer than they would like while getting back on track fully, and are reorganising production so as to hopefully reduce the build time a good deal more by June/July...let's wish them all the best in this endeavour, lol!
  
I sincerely hope - and am fairly confident! - that things will indeed go more smoothly over the coming weeks/months, and trust y'all can continue to draw on reserves of patience that will surely be well worth the effort...I _*know*_ you can do it LOL!! 








...CHEERS...
  
 CJ


----------



## hypnos1

richdytch said:


> Well it's nearly 10 weeks since I ordered my Elise. The forecast was 6-7 weeks... I emailed Lukasz who was very apologetic and told me that they're having trouble sourcing some components. To be honest, having seen some other mentions of their delays on the thread, I feel bad having hassled him. I'm sure it's worth waiting for. And supplier problems can be an absolute nightmare for a small company.
> 
> But in the meantime, the Elise is the sole missing link in my new signal chain ... so I'm getting very itchy. Had to ditch the little dot mkiii as a preamp because the levels of hum I was experiencing with the tubes I liked were too high when going into my Quad 909. Back to my old Marantz pm7001ki, which is ... just.... ok.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


 
  
 A belated Hi! to you too, richdytch...yet another convert from the LittleDot fraternity!... (I myself defected from the LDMKIV SE - a very good-value amp, but no comparison to Elise, lol!).
  
 Am glad you understand the 'nightmares' faced by companies such as Feliks-Audio - I personally wouldn't want to go anywhere near such a business venture, but thank the Gods there are those who _*do*_ LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...And I'm sure they've taken on board our various concerns, despite the huge pressure they must still be under....especially from the recent surge in orders! Your wait *will* be worth it, to be sure....
  
 Look forward to your eventual findings re. the Quad!!....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## HOWIE13

Thank you Hypnos.
  
 Meanwhile, until I decide what do about Elise I can enjoy Expressivo with my multitude of 6DJ8 tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

G'day all and once again welcome to the new arrivals. 
  
 Finally we have a Expressivo member in our midst. Congrats @HOWIE13  that's a nice looking tube amp with some very favorable reviews.
  
 Brave man @Wreckgar7 in modding the HD650 !!! At least I wasn't hallucinating when I thought it sounded very good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Wait till you dynamat it. Bass will tighten up and have more impact. I've been using the modded HD650 more than the T1 in the last 5 days. What's happening here.... maybe it's the HD850 after all ... if only it has the soundstage of the T1.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> G'day all and once again welcome to the new arrivals.
> 
> Finally we have a Expressivo member in our midst. Congrats @HOWIE13  that's a nice looking tube amp with some very favorable reviews.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, UntilThen.
  
 Expressivo is definitely a good looker and sounds very good too-but it's only been out of the box for a day. Wooden side panels are a nice touch.
  
 I wonder if anyone has compared Expressivo to Elise. They probably have different sound signatures given the different tube types used.
  
 In time I'll compare Expressivo to some other amps I use.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Väntar alltid för länge ska det väl vara  (swedish saying ...always waits too long)
> 
> When you get your amp there will be at least two Elises in Sweden
> 
> ...


 

 I do use my Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top, RCA 6SN7GT VT231 smoke glass and Raytheon 7N7 with Tung Sol 5998 occasionally.  It's a more focussed tone and very enjoyable indeed. Not as spatial as EL3N. I prefer Visseaux, Fivre and Mazda 6N7G, FDD20, C3G tones over 6SN7. Now I'm just happy with EL3N as drivers although occasionally I do roll in the other drivers.
  
 ECC31 were once favored amongst Elise owners and I remember it's hard to find one on eBay due to the demand. I hardly use it now as I prefer EL3N tone a lot more.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Expressivo is definitely a good looker and sounds very good too-but it's only been out of the box for a day. Wooden side panels are a nice touch.
> 
> I wonder if anyone has compared Expressivo to Elise. They probably have different sound signatures given the different tube types used.


 
 You only had it for one day? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do share your thoughts after you have burn it in more. There has been no comparison between Expressivo and Elise here.


----------



## UntilThen

Holy mackerel I put on T1 after 2 days with HD850 and the T1 is the real fireworks. So spacious the soundstage and the imaging so precise. The bass is just right. The musical notes are dancing in my ears. It's not just the clarity and details, it's musical.
  
 So yeah T1 is still way ahead of HD850 for me and there's nothing for me to mod apart from the silver cable that came with it. It just sound so good with Elise and I have on now EL3N with Tung Sol 7236.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> You only had it for one day?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll give it three or four weeks and roll some tubes and then let you know how it sounds.


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> If I don't hear anything positive from them in a week I may cancel order and go with my first pick.....http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=NewProducts&ProductId=MHA100



 


Hi,

so I wanted to give everyone a bit of an update. Invoice 46 shipped Monday the 25th, unfortunately I was and will be traveling a bit in the coming days and not sure when I will be able to pick it up from my offices.

By the way if you are prone to spending money nothing better than delays that will prevent you from spending more I like the McIntosh amps, but that is seriously a different price category. 

Cheers 
wb


----------



## supersonic395

wb2016 said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > If I don't hear anything positive from them in a week I may cancel order and go with my first pick.....http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=NewProducts&ProductId=MHA100
> ...




That's awesome to hear! Look forward to reading your impressions!! 

Btw when did you order it?


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> connie there's a matching Mc turntable to go with it.



 


McIntosh amps are great, especially for Rock, but the turntable IMO is only worth it if you are a Mcintosh fanboy. Esthetics, I like the amps, but the turntable will require a lot of aquiring to become a taste. Its quite good, but not for the price. Its roughly at the level of a VPI prime.
The MHA is almost 6000 Euros!!! That is about 10 times as much as the Elise!

The VPI Prime is 4500 the MT10 is 9000. Again not bad, but you are exceeding SME20 prices and nowhere as good or anywhere close on the construction quality. 

Have not heard the MHA so cannot comment on it. Just that the price is vastly different to an Elise. If you have a McIntosh system and have to have that sound maybe something to do, but else it would seem hard to justify. Again I have not heard it and nothing McIntosh will be bad. Actually it will always be excellent, well don't know they are producing wireless speakers as well now.... 

Maybe if you wanted to use it as an all in one system with small speaker amp and DAC it could work, but still quite pricey, you could get 3 Audio GD Master 11 for that suposedly outperform it on the headphone/DAC side. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> Yeah, might be good to just add a few weeks on - I doubt that being told something like 2-3 months would have stopped me placing an order



 


As someone who worked in Marketing, yeah it would of changed quite a bit in the chance of you buying it. Especially when using months because that involves "months" as a concept further it aproaches the idea of a "season". Psychologically its better 52 weeks than a year. Also because weeks can be plus minus a week, but a year plus minus, ouch. 

 As with all bespoke or hand made inventory you need to tolerate expected time plus 50%. So when you get 2-3 months as what you are told would mean expecting 4 months, too long who knows what happens until then Nice to buy something hand made, especially at that price, and once the wait is over it actually psychologically adds to the value. A not perfect chasis or some QC issues will always be a disaster.

At least they have some great polish work ethic. If you do bespoke in Italy expect 2 weeks for Easter Christmas and at least 1 month for August. But it seems as if production is right back on track looking at when the last two Elises were produced. Mine just shipped.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

supersonic395 said:


> Has your Elise shipped yet, or is going to ship in the next few days?



 


Sorry been at conferences and tradeshows. 8am to 11pm workdays. My Elise shipped out Monday 25.4. but will not get a chance to pick it up until I am back next week, I did not want people thinking there were further delays now production seems to be back to normal. 
The new Williams amp could be quite interesting as well. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

That's good to hear @WB2016 .
  
 My Elise turns exactly 6 months yesterday 27th and has been working flawlessly. Mine is number #22.


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Budget?  That was blown so long ago I don't even think about it!  Waiting for the knock on the door, from the money police, I will just stick out my hands, be cuffed and go quietly!  Pricey to be sure, but Mc's have always had a large spot in my heart.  Must be the big blue gauges!



 


Well the least expensive thing is getting their new speakers with the built in guage and disconnect the wire to the tweeter and mids

Like the Mcintosh stuff but this going with all the other stuff and now kind of low end stuff reminds me of Ferrari and all the fanboys buying the keychains, towels, shirts, golf clubs, etc.

I cannot comment on the MHA100, but the speakers somehow do not inspire me at all. The turntable was for the price not especially great and a look only a Mcintosh fanboy could love No, they make great amps and I love the blue double winking guages, but I am afraid you will be buying ihe premium of having the name (and the guage). For myself a simple preamp only with the remote and the double wink would be nice to have for say 1000 dollars, but at 7K for their preamps, ouch. Still shows I would be spending the price of the Elise, tubes, cables and isolation for something I really don't need and that the mcintosh advertising works. Best to get a computer displaying the guages, there is probably an app and keep the money police away for a little longer

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

coldassault said:


> Can anybody who owns (owned?) or extensively heard the Elise compare it to Icon Audio's HP8 Mk2? Very much in doubt between the two...
> 
> At the sideline, there is also the Trafomatic Head One...
> 
> Thanks for chiming in!



 


Hi I've heard the Icon Audio HP8, its nice, once I burn in the Elise I can give you some feedback. I went against the HP8 due to price about 30% more than the Elise and less tube rolling options. 

If you are still interested remind me in a few weeks and I can give you accurate impressions. The Icon Audio stuff is quite nice and has the ability to adjust the output impedence. I will tell you how the Elise handles low med high ohm headphones and if and when this would make a difference. 

Hope that helps. 
WB


----------



## WB2016

supersonic395 said:


> That's awesome to hear! Look forward to reading your impressions!!
> 
> 
> 
> Btw when did you order it?



 


Not sure it was around 10 weeks and some days, until shipping. But it seems that they are back on track 1-2 units per week. 

Just have a chance for some mytime computer time because today since I can sleep in late tomorrow. Then lots more work and difficulty answering questions online for a while. I will try to give some feedback once everything burns in. Until then it will be unfair to do much of a review. Hopefully I can borrow some gear to do some comparisons for those of you interested, but the delay messed up my relaxed play around with equipment and Elise phase (Especially regarding the TotalDAC, what you want to borrow that, you can try prying that off my dead fingers) and now there will be an extended work a ton away from the office out on the road phase. 

I will likely be able to give a great review of the Fiio x5 in the next couple of weeks doubt many will be interested in that though...

When things calm down I will attempt to borrow some equipment but that will require a lot of time, e.g. make some meals and bbq for friends and colleagues or work for free on their setups. My persuasion skills are excellent but it will take time, money and energy.

My main point coming here is to not make people believe there are still issues with the production delays from Feliks because of me not responding. Everything seems to be back to normal. Now I am getting some sleep and then will post when I can tell you something worthwhile.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> That's good to hear @WB2016 .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


A little halfling ey.

Cheers
WB


----------



## connieflyer

@UntilThen a gentle wake up for you....


----------



## connieflyer

Now that you are awake and relaxed let's roll........


----------



## supersonic395

wb2016 said:


> supersonic395 said:
> 
> 
> > That's awesome to hear! Look forward to reading your impressions!!
> ...




Ah I see!

Did you order your Elise with stock tubes? If so, will you be doing the initial listening period with the stock tubes only?


----------



## richdytch

hypnos1 said:


> A belated Hi! to you too, richdytch...yet another convert from the LittleDot fraternity!... (I myself defected from the LDMKIV SE - a very good-value amp, but no comparison to Elise, lol!).
> 
> Am glad you understand the 'nightmares' faced by companies such as Feliks-Audio - I personally wouldn't want to go anywhere near such a business venture, but thank the Gods there are those who _*do*_ LOL!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Hypnos! I'll report back when my findings are complete


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> @UntilThen a gentle wake up for you....


 
  
 Tank yooooouuuu Connie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 and I bought 3 LPs today after almost 40 years hahaha. Now to wait for the TT to arrive.


----------



## richdytch

I guess you're right @WB2016. 4 months is a long time....


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

supersonic395 said:


> Ah I see!
> 
> Did you order your Elise with stock tubes? If so, will you be doing the initial listening period with the stock tubes only?




Can anybody give some more info about the upgrade option offerd by Feliks Audio themselves? Good deal, or am I better off buying stock and persuing some of the tubes mentioned in this thread if I ever dive into the tube world?


----------



## UntilThen

coldassault said:


> Can anybody give some more info about the upgrade option offerd by Feliks Audio themselves? Good deal, or am I better off buying stock and persuing some of the tubes mentioned in this thread if I ever dive into the tube world?


 
 Get the stock tubes and some of the tubes in post 9291. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 For your HD800S, I'd recommend EL3N with Tung Sol 7236. Same goes for your LCD-3 and HD650.


----------



## connieflyer

UT did you get the McIntosh turntable ?


----------



## UntilThen

Ha ! Only Mc I know is an iMac. 
  
 This is what I'm getting and it's cheaper than Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

For me it would be a Big Mac sandwich!  Got shipping info on Elise, will go out tomorrow.  Also tried to order headphone stand, but will not be ready till June-July in production now, price will be determined later, but around $79.  You can put your name on a waiting list and for prior Feliks customers there is no down payment.  Nice solid looking piece, and at 5 lbs it will be strudy and hold my 800's nicely.  Congratls on the vinyl!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> For me it would be a Big Mac sandwich!  Got shipping info on Elise, will go out tomorrow.  Also tried to order headphone stand, but will not be ready till June-July in production now, price will be determined later, but around $79.  You can put your name on a waiting list and for prior Feliks customers there is no down payment.  Nice solid looking piece, and at 5 lbs it will be strudy and hold my 800's nicely.  Congratls on the vinyl!


 
 At long last.... congrats CF !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 $79 for headphone stand. I wonder how much shipping to Australia.


----------



## WB2016

supersonic395 said:


> Ah I see!
> 
> Did you order your Elise with stock tubes? If so, will you be doing the initial listening period with the stock tubes only?


 

 Yeah mostly stock to have a comparison, but will try to also burn in the EL3Ns which will take some time. Getting to attentive listening will take a while and 150hr plus 300hrs is a long time to give any type of review. The HPA 8 2 I heard was burnt in so until that time any comparisons are a bit mute and misleading. Likely will not be on the forums much due to work.
  
 Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> I guess you're right @WB2016. 4 months is a long time....


 

 Looks like 8 weeks is now the delivery time with back ups.
  
 Cheers
 WB


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> For me it would be a Big Mac sandwich!  Got shipping info on Elise, will go out tomorrow.  Also tried to order headphone stand, but will not be ready till June-July in production now, price will be determined later, but around $79.  You can put your name on a waiting list and for prior Feliks customers there is no down payment.  Nice solid looking piece, and at 5 lbs it will be strudy and hold my 800's nicely.  Congratls on the vinyl!


 

 Wow things are going fast then. Guess they had them built and now needed to put the inards into the new cases. Could be you will hold the Elise in hands before me after all and you ordered way later than me
  
 Take Care
 WB


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> For me it would be a Big Mac sandwich!  Got shipping info on Elise, will go out tomorrow.  Also tried to order headphone stand, but will not be ready till June-July in production now, price will be determined later, but around $79.  You can put your name on a waiting list and for prior Feliks customers there is no down payment.  Nice solid looking piece, and at 5 lbs it will be strudy and hold my 800's nicely.  Congratls on the vinyl!




Congratulations! We should throw a soiree for you.


----------



## connieflyer

I'll take it!


----------



## connieflyer

Put my Ember amp up for sale, now that Elise is shipping. Sitting here in the hospital, wife is having an EGD again. This week so far we have been with the medical field for over 10 hours. Should another 3 hours for today. I need a stiff dŕink, no vodka or scotch available here.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Put my Ember amp up for sale, now that Elise is shipping. Sitting here in the hospital, wife is having an EGD again. This week so far we have been with the medical field for over 10 hours. Should another 3 hours for today. I need a stiff dŕink, no vodka or scotch available here.


 
 Wish you and your wife all the best.


----------



## supersonic395

connieflyer said:


> Put my Ember amp up for sale, now that Elise is shipping. Sitting here in the hospital, wife is having an EGD again. This week so far we have been with the medical field for over 10 hours. Should another 3 hours for today. I need a stiff dŕink, no vodka or scotch available here.




Wishing you and your wife all the best.

Awesome to hear that your Elise is shipping!


----------



## Audict123

Sometimes, patience pays off.... Here's some GOOD news on the use of the 6N7G double triodes and 6C5G single triode variant thereof in one of the latest released Elises (no 45).
  
 I've got my Elise since 3 weeks now. Like Lord raven, aqsw and probably others, I did not have any luck with the 6N7G 'joybringers'. Heavy distortion at normal listening volumes. It occured with the Visseaux and the Fivre. I tried all kinds of combo's with different powers. Original 6N13S, Chatham 6AS7G, 6520, 5998, all no luck. With EL3N as powers, it DOES work but at low volume. I decided to give the single triode variants 6C5G a go. Found some Visseaux 6C5G and boy, they play beautifully with normal powers (6AS7G etc...). I read that decentlevi was surprised that his Visseaux 6J5G 'end game tubes' for the Project Amber did not do as well in the Elise. The 6C5G is the precursor thereof and I feel it's a really beautiful sounding tube. The sound is quite similar to the EL3N in my opinion. Ample bass, beautiful midrange, a little shy treble. With HD650 phones that is. I need more time to compare, but the EL3N may sound more realistic, whereas the 6C5G has a 'wetter' sound. I can image that these tubes combine very well with relatively brighter phones like HD800 or T1.  I anticipated a low volume with these 6C5G single triodes but there is ample volume. Normal listening levels require a setting around 10-11h.
  
 Frustrated with the many unused 6N7G's in my drawer (but happy with the C65G!), I was about ready to sell them. But, I tried again today - I never give up easily. First with stock Russian powers. Heavy distortion from the first notes. Then a miracle with 5998: NO distortion! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I expected it would come back during warmup. This happened before: only 5998 gave me some listening time with this tube family so far, but the joy ended in a few minutes after warmup. Not today. It's playing for 2 hours now, no distortion whatsoever. And boy does it play well...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For classical and jazz, it extracts more detail in the higher frequencies then the EL3N does. I'm sure the EL3N is a fabulous tube, the detail in the midrange is obvious, but I miss some energy with the HD650. The Visseaux 6N7G does exactly that: infuse some high frequencey energy in the HD650. Just like the C3G does. All in my ears and with my setup of course.
  
 I have no idea what is going on here. Burn in of Elise? Burn in of the 5998? I started to wander if there was some change in Elise's components at some point in time, the old ones being compatible with 6N7G, the new ones no longer. It may also be that the people with the earlier Elises started experimenting with 6N7G's AFTER burn in. Whatever - I'm happy with the latest results and hope it stays this way (not so sure yet!). To Lord raven and aqsw: I hope I don't disturb you with this.


----------



## mordy

Headphone stand? Maybe expand the accessory line:
  
  
 T-shirt




  
 Bobbing sticker in car window:




  
 For Glenn owners:
  




  
 And for people waiting to receive their amp:




 I didn't make up any of these - just went shopping at Google images...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I didn't make up any of these - just went shopping at Google images...




Lol. 



[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/6ym2F3rbKmM[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Put my Ember amp up for sale, now that Elise is shipping. Sitting here in the hospital, wife is having an EGD again. This week so far we have been with the medical field for over 10 hours. Should another 3 hours for today. I need a stiff dŕink, no vodka or scotch available here.


 

 Hi CF, you're not alone in the hospital. The Elise community is with you. Take care mate and I hope to hear from you on your thoughts of Elise soon.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Headphone stand? Maybe expand the accessory line:


 
 This is so funny and perhaps Feliks Audio should start selling those T-Shirts and stickers or give one away with Elise. 
  
 I vote for the girl's blue T-Shirt.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> I have no idea what is going on here. Burn in of Elise? Burn in of the 5998? I started to wander if there was some change in Elise's components at some point in time, the old ones being compatible with 6N7G, the new ones no longer. It may also be that the people with the earlier Elises started experimenting with 6N7G's AFTER burn in. Whatever - I'm happy with the latest results and hope it stays this way (not so sure yet!). To Lord raven and aqsw: I hope I don't disturb you with this.


 
 The Visseaux, Fivre and Mazda 6N7G are very old tubes just like the 1942 Philips Miniwatts FDD20 that I have. Mine did have some crackles and pops initially. It's like an old dinosaur coming alive. I have no hum and distortions though. Once fully burned in and in combination with Tung Sol 5998 or 6AS7G, they are dynamite.
  
 6N7G is more forward sounding. A pair of FDD20 with 5998 sounded better IMO. They are all great tubes. This is the reason I do not roll much with 6SN7 as drivers because these other drivers sound so much better. Even the C3G and ECC31. I have not experimented with the very expensive Tung Sol 6SN7gt black round plates or Sylvania 6SN7W though.
  
 There's something about EL3N. They tend to work where other tubes do not for some people. As it happens with aqsw.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I actually saw this fire breathing dragon yesterday, speaking of old dinosaurs coming alive:
  




  
 Was more of a loud hissing sound than crackling......
  
 Seriously, several of my old tubes seemed to need time to wake up, and protested in the beginning by making noises - crackling, ticks, and pops. Sometimes the pins needed a little scrubbing as well, but all of them behaved after a while.
  
 Hint: This dragon breaths a ball of fire every 15 minutes from 10 - 7.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hint: This dragon breaths a ball of fire every 15 minutes from 10 - 7.


 
 Where is this fire breathing dragon.


----------



## mordy

Universal Studios, Orlando, Florida


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 Just added a 5 TB HDD to my existing digital space, this thing won't last long either.
  
 The thing came in like, packed within 5 shopping bags, bubble wrap, newspapers, 3 boxes, and original sealed packaging. I mean, WTH. This is called, packing for the WWIII 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Elise would love another black box seated next to it LOL
  
 Adios lucky ones!!!
 LR


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Put my Ember amp up for sale, now that Elise is shipping. Sitting here in the hospital, wife is having an EGD again. This week so far we have been with the medical field for over 10 hours. Should another 3 hours for today. I need a stiff dŕink, no vodka or scotch available here.


 
  
 OH... I'm sorry to hear about your wife.  I hope everything is OK.  Our thoughts are with you.


----------



## connieflyer

Wife is doing okay, they decided she was too high a risk for surgery, so after all that time in prep, talked with all involved and it was decided to cancel.  She feels relieved as they were not sure she would come out of the anestesia ( we need a spell checker or younger people here!) think I murdered that one.  Have heard from several of the members here in PM's and I want to thank all in public for their kind words and for caring. Told the wife about it, and she thinks it is wonderful to have such people in my life, as do I.  She thinks this is more than a hobby or pastime. So seeing an opening, I asked about the McIntosh and she laughed and said if I really wanted it to go ahead and get it, but make sure to get an extension cable so I can use it out in the shed, where I will be living if I do.  I tried!


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Wife is doing okay, they decided she was too high a risk for surgery, so after all that time in prep, talked with all involved and it was decided to cancel.  She feels relieved as they were not sure she would come out of the anestesia ( we need a spell checker or younger people here!) think I murdered that one.  Have heard from several of the members here in PM's and I want to thank all in public for their kind words and for caring. Told the wife about it, and she thinks it is wonderful to have such people in my life, as do I.  She thinks this is more than a hobby or pastime. So seeing an opening, I asked about the McIntosh and she laughed and said if I really wanted it to go ahead and get it, but make sure to get an extension cable so I can use it out in the shed, where I will be living if I do.  I tried!




It's so good to hear she's OK! 

I don't know CF shed + Mc = bliss...


----------



## connieflyer

I think when winter hit, I would want to sell it, but until then...........


----------



## jerick70

Just use this formula then... shed + AC + heater + insulation + Mc = bliss.


----------



## connieflyer

Sounds good, but she will probably pull the plug on the extension cord in the middle of the night , just for the fun of it!


----------



## connieflyer

Something to relax you


----------



## DecentLevi

Great realization! Yes it truly does seem this is more than a hobby. I feel as if some of you Elise members are my true friends... on that note just gotta mention that I'd love to hang around here more often, but time has been a rare commodity for me lately. I've been knee deep with R&D for my home business, but when time permits I can catch up more here.
  
 I also wanted to mention what has been THE MOST EXTRAVAGANT EXPERIENCE of hi-fi home-audio of my entire life. Listening to a lossless copy of the album "That's the way of the world" by Eath, Wind & Fire early this morning with my Elise tube combo mentioned here. I was instantly transported to the this lively, vibrant scene full of passion and realism as vivid and powerful as one could possibly imagine without actually being there. It's gotta be the 2nd best audiophile experience of my life, trailing not too far behind the rare multi-thousand dollar summit-fi Sony MDR-R10 headphone rig I heard last year at Can Jam.
  
 It's so amazing, an album mastered this great that was made before I was born and didn't even know about it until now... talk about perfect analogue,@PerfectAnalog you should like this one! It's the best demonstration of what the Elise is capable of I have found yet, and I would highly recommend anybody who doesn't have this album yet to get it, and you can *see what the Elise can really do!*
  
*"That's the way of the world" by Eath, Wind & Fire* - lossless copies or used versions should be available everywhere. It's the ultimate I've heard so far with this amp!


----------



## DecentLevi

PS- I think a lot of the reason for so much retro music floating around here is the direct result of a good amp's ability to make you appreciate different music you wouldn't have otherwise listened to


----------



## jerick70

connieflyer said:


> Something to relax you




  
 I love guitar.  Do you like Ottmar Liebert?


----------



## Audict123

untilthen said:


> The Visseaux, Fivre and Mazda 6N7G are very old tubes just like the 1942 Philips Miniwatts FDD20 that I have. Mine did have some crackles and pops initially. It's like an old dinosaur coming alive. I have no hum and distortions though. Once fully burned in and in combination with Tung Sol 5998 or 6AS7G, they are dynamite.


 


mordy said:


> Seriously, several of my old tubes seemed to need time to wake up, and protested in the beginning by making noises - crackling, ticks, and pops. Sometimes the pins needed a little scrubbing as well, but all of them behaved after a while.
> 
> Hint: This dragon breaths a ball of fire every 15 minutes from 10 - 7.


 
  
 I know all about noises, crackling, pops and ticks from dozens of tubes bought for this and previous headphone amps and my hybrid speaker amplifier. With 6N7G and Elise, it's something different that plagues the output. It's heavy distortion that kicks in when turning up the volume at anything above 'low'. Like what you would get trying to get a wall of sound from your smartphone. I think the origin of this distortion must be more complex, and here is why. When combined with EL3N as powers, none of these tubes (I have 10 6N7g's/6A6 in total...) ever showed this distortion, even right from the NOS/NIB box. Still, you are both right it could be a burn-in effect of the tubes themselves. Maybe some electrical parameters need to 'settle' - and as long as that is not the case, the combination with regular powers doesn't work because of a mismatch. It's already a miracle that so many combo's DO work so well in Elise. I'm not an expert, but it's unlikely that they all just happen to operate at or near the optimal working points (of voltages, of bias, etc) with the fixed values that Elise provides. Maybe the 6N7G is 'just off' initially and shifts into the 'this works well' region when properly burned in. Or it's some burn in of parts in Elise that do the same thing. In that case, all 6N7G combo's should work now - will try. (Sorry, long again. You all know small kids have this 'but why' phase they go through. I never got passed that phase  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 * UPDATE * Put in Fivre 6N7GT - these had very little play time so far - and they distort. So you are right guys - it's the 6N7G tube itself that needs the burn in. Come to think of it - I used the Visseaux's with EL3N for a while because that did work without distortion from the start. Those hours with EL3N of course helped the burn in of the Visseaux! So it makes sense it 'suddenly' works with 5998 too. The whole experiments to me is proof that tube burn in is VERY real. Not just to cure pops etc, but also to bring a tube 'on spec'. There are many disbelievers of burn in with respect to sound quality, including that of tubes. Guess with a tube run at it's optimal operating points, it's hard to discern a burn in effect but with these Visseaux in Elise, it seems very easy.
  
 Whatever, I'm relieved the joybringers now work. I truly feel like a lucky one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I recognize the forward character but it's funky and makes the non-audiophile stuff sound like magic. Next to try:  FDD20! Hope to make the adapters today.
  
 Thanks to all of you pioneers who brought all these nice tube to our attention.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> I know all about noises, crackling, pops and ticks from dozens of tubes bought for this and previous headphone amps and my hybrid speaker amplifier. With 6N7G and Elise, it's something different that plagues the output. It's heavy distortion that kicks in when turning up the volume at anything above 'low'. Like what you would get trying to get a wall of sound from your smartphone. I think the origin of this distortion must be more complex, and here is why. When combined with EL3N as powers, none of these tubes (I have 10 6N7g's/6A6 in total...) ever showed this distortion, even right from the NOS/NIB box. Still, you are both right it could be a burn-in effect of the tubes themselves. Maybe some electrical parameters need to 'settle' - and as long as that is not the case, the combination with regular powers doesn't work because of a mismatch. It's already a miracle that so many combo's DO work so well in Elise. I'm not an expert, but it's unlikely that they all just happen to operate at or near the optimal working points (of voltages, of bias, etc) with the fixed values that Elise provides. Maybe the 6N7G is 'just off' initially and shifts into the 'this works well' region when properly burned in. Or it's some burn in of parts in Elise that do the same thing. In that case, all 6N7G combo's should work now - will try. (Sorry, long again. You all know small kids have this 'but why' phase they go through. I never got passed that phase
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad your tubes are settling down nicely...you'll have plenty of good combos to play with now, lol!...another wonderful feature of Elise!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Can't wait to hear your impressions of the FDD20...
  
 Now, on the subject of non-stock tubes settling in, I have for a long while now suspected there's a little man hiding inside our amps just waiting to see what we keep trying to put in her. After the initial shock/shriek, he sprinkles his 'magic dust' and all is well...*most* times, that is!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...And I'm beginning to feel REAL sorry for the poor guy - I, and many others, haven't given him a moment's peace...but somehow, he just keeps coming back for more..._*BLESS HIM!!*_...and Feliks-Audio...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 Hey @connieflyer...mixed blessings re. your wife's (non-)anaesthesia - we all just hope alternative treatment does the trick. Best wishes to you both....CJ


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I think when winter hit, I would want to sell it, but until then...........


 
 What's up? !!! 
  
 I was at Bondi today right where Bondi Iceberg is.
  


 ...and you don't need McIntosh ... Elise is all you need.


----------



## connieflyer

Must be alot of tube amps turned on all at once!


----------



## UntilThen

Got inspired and pull out my Fivre Brown Base 6N7G and paired it with Tung Sol 7236. Never tried this combination before but this is exquisite sound.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> * UPDATE * Put in Fivre 6N7GT - these had very little play time so far - and they distort. So you are right guys - it's the 6N7G tube itself that needs the burn in. Come to think of it - I used the Visseaux's with EL3N for a while because that did work without distortion from the start. Those hours with EL3N of course helped the burn in of the Visseaux! So it makes sense it 'suddenly' works with 5998 too. The whole experiments to me is proof that tube burn in is VERY real. Not just to cure pops etc, but also to bring a tube 'on spec'. There are many disbelievers of burn in with respect to sound quality, including that of tubes. Guess with a tube run at it's optimal operating points, it's hard to discern a burn in effect but with these Visseaux in Elise, it seems very easy.
> 
> Whatever, I'm relieved the joybringers now work. I truly feel like a lucky one
> 
> ...


 
 Audict I'm glad you manage to find some of these rare tubes and it's starting to work for you. I'm still amaze at how adaptable Elise is with C3G, ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N. These tubes are not in Feliks Audio's mind when they design Elise. It was designed primarily for 6SN7 and 6AS7. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a transformation in sound and the reason I feel no urge to try more 6SN7.


----------



## UntilThen

*Six EL3N*
  
 If you have the original HD800, T1 or modded HD650, HD600, you have to try this. All six of them. 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 EL3Ns as power tubes.
 All Elise owners and would be owners be sure to get your EL3N tubes from Acoustics Dimension at the cheap price before stocks runs out.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> *Six EL3N*
> 
> Hi UT,
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Acoustics Dimension is not on eBay. This is their website http://www.acoustic-dimension.com.
  
 Email them that you want to purchase Philips EL3N tubes and the quantity. They will get back to you with an invoice and payment via PayPal. Their email is on the website.
  
 On the website, look for the 'Tubes & Co' tab at the top menu, then 'New Old Stock tubes' and you'll see EL3N tube info there and the price.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp this is Sultans of Swing for you on vinyl. Sounds good even on Youtube.


----------



## connieflyer

Boy Sultans of Swing, bring backs some memories.  Lukasz sent email to me today with tracking info. Won't be too long now.  Told him to put me in for one of the new headphone stands, I am on the list but wanted to just invoice me when they are ready.  Looks just like what I was wanting, wood, large and heavy.


----------



## UntilThen

Alrighty I'm gonna buy a Feliks Audio headphone stand too. Nice wood !


----------



## connieflyer

I like the simplicity and simple sculpture, nice lines without being ostentatious. The weight will help keep the phones from falling over, plus, after coffee in the morning, I can use it to exercise instead of using the weight bench!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp this is Sultans of Swing for you on vinyl. Sounds good even on Youtube.


 
  
 All the "1s" and "0s" in the universe (the audio equivalent of connect-the-dots) will never touch vinyl. The Sultans are going totally wild here in Scottsdale tonight )))


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Scottsdale, this is Ground Control. Don't party too hard there.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Acoustics Dimension is not on eBay. This is their website http://www.acoustic-dimension.com.
> 
> Email them that you want to purchase Philips EL3N tubes and the quantity. They will get back to you with an invoice and payment via PayPal. Their email is on the website.
> 
> On the website, look for the 'Tubes & Co' tab at the top menu, then 'New Old Stock tubes' and you'll see EL3N tube info there and the price.




Thanks mate!

Would you say EL3N x6 beats two of the forementioned and two 6AS7G?


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Thanks mate!
> 
> Would you say EL3N x6 beats two of the forementioned and two 6AS7G?


 

 Hi oshipao, I stop putting a ranking on the tube combinations because they all appeal to me with their different tones. My 4 favorite combinations are:-
  
 6xEL3N
 EL3N with 5998
 EL3N with 7236
 EL3N with Chatham 6AS7G or 6520
  
 These sound the best for me with T1 original and modded HD650.
  
 Then comes the rest listed in post 9291. 
  
 For a stock HD650 or HD800S, I think it's better to pick tube combinations with a tighter, tauter, leaner and brighter tone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 For example:-
  
 EL3N and 7236
 C3G with 5998
 Visseaux or Mazda 6N7G with 5998
 7N7 with 5998
  
 Again no hard and fast rules. It depends on individuals and their sound preference. 
  
 There are some expensive and special power tubes that I have not tried. They are GEC 6AS7G, GEC 6080, Bendix 6080, Western Electric 421A. These have special appeal, are very pricey and difficult to find.


----------



## UntilThen

I do have to say that there will be that 'Wow" moment when you first listen to 6xEL3N. Amphitheater soundstage and superb imaging with uncanny instruments separation. It's very captivating.


----------



## UntilThen

Aren't we glad Atkinson isn't into tube rolling.


----------



## Suuup

Practical Arrangement by Sting >> Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC >> Feliks Elise with 6N7G driver tubes and Tungsol 5998 power tubes >> Beyerdynamic T1 >> Schiøtz Belgian IPA


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hello Scottsdale, this is Ground Control. Don't party too hard there.


 
 Sorry. Communications with Ground Control went dead last night. I sent my wife out for an extravehicular space walk to repair the communication module. She said something about a Sultan following her out the hatch


----------



## Suuup

I have also finally gotten all of my tubes off of my desk. 
  

  
 50 tubes in the cabinet as well as 4 tubes in the Elise. What a journey.


----------



## connieflyer

suuup said:


> Practical Arrangement by Sting >> Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC >> Feliks Elise with 6N7G driver tubes and Tungsol 5998 power tubes >> Beyerdynamic T1 >> Schiøtz Belgian IPA


 

 I thought the beer was the first input, kind of to make the rest of the connections, more or less irrelevent!!


----------



## pctazhp

He was truly great.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> *I like the simplicity and simple sculpture, nice lines without being ostentatious.* The weight will help keep the phones from falling over, plus, after coffee in the morning, I can use it to exercise instead of using the weight bench!


 
  
 Just as in Elise herself, no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...look forward to seeing how it looks alongside your own - that hopefully has a safe and speedy journey into your clutches, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Lord Raven

Now listening to, through the incredible sound of Elise  Enjoy!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Speaking of simplicity, watch this guys hands half way through, like organ or not this this guy burns more calories in five minutes than I consume in a day, (thats alot)  Still don't understand how to control feet and hands, when I have a hard time tying my shoes!


----------



## Lord Raven

Breath of fresh Air, obviously through Elise  Awesome sound!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Warmed up Elise for like 5 hours before listening, what is your usual warming up time? I slept actually and my wife told me that my bulbs are on LOL


----------



## connieflyer

House for sale in Grand Rapids Michigan....


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> Warmed up Elise for like 5 hours before listening, what is your usual warming up time? I slept actually and my wife told me that my bulbs are on LOL


 
 At my age, I'll take that any day!!! Not sure how long it takes for my Elise to warm up. Probably less time than it takes for me


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> At my age, I'll take that any day!!! Not sure how long it takes for my Elise to warm up. Probably less time than it takes for me


 
 I have made friends with so many people of double my age, and all of them are so young at heart. I wish I could get to that age with that kind of enthusiasm, spirit and love for the music. You rock guys!!!


----------



## TomNC

suuup said:


> I have also finally gotten all of my tubes off of my desk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Suuup, keep going. The space needs further filled up with some A1834 and CV2523s.


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> I have also finally gotten all of my tubes off of my desk.
> 
> 
> 
> 50 tubes in the cabinet as well as 4 tubes in the Elise. What a journey.


 
 You do realize don't you that you are generating tube-envy


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Just as in Elise herself, no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm. Maybe I could use waiting for the stands as a good excuse to delay putting my HD800S up for sale. I'm sure it would sell much faster displayed on that stand


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> I have made friends with so many people of double my age, and all of them are so young at heart. I wish I could get to that age with that kind of enthusiasm, spirit and love for the music. You rock guys!!!


 
 Thanks LR. We Old Geezers can use all the encouragement we can get


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks to this guy, that he was born and we are in a digital age  Happy birthday...


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> All the "1s" and "0s" in the universe (the audio equivalent of connect-the-dots) will never touch vinyl. The Sultans are going totally wild here in Scottsdale tonight )))


 
  
 For sure, pct....but when it comes to "Deathly Black Background", "1s" and "0s" have it methinks (at prices that aren't stratospheric, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


lord raven said:


> Warmed up Elise for like 5 hours before listening, what is your usual warming up time? I slept actually and my wife told me that my bulbs are on LOL


 
  
 5 hours, LR?...YIKES! - mine sounds fabulous after 5 *MINUTES* LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. Still over the moon with the Geek Pulse?...another possible contender DAC for the future (although the PS Audio fare also looks good!)...
  


pctazhp said:


> Hmmm. Maybe I could use waiting for the stands as a good excuse to delay putting my HD800S up for sale. I'm sure it would sell much faster displayed on that stand


 
  
 You could just be right there, mon ami!...but remember, the longer you hold onto them the more difficult it may become to part with 'em, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## Audict123

You forgot one winner combo for the stock HD650 Untilthen  : the FDD20 with any good power tube. These need 12V adapters, assembled mine yesterday. Boy o boy o boy - do these tubes sing with stock HD650. It has the brighter tone you mentioned, desirabble to liven up the warm HD650. But I feel there is more. This combi leaves the strong bass of the HD650 intact, but remodels it in a tighter, faster form. The bass is just insane
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm gobsmacked .... Didn't even try the supposedly better powers with it yet - I took the relatively cheap stock Russian 6N13S for fear that the adapter stuff would not be ok, but there are no problems whatsoever. Some light hum in the right channel but barely noticable. And that is with an adapter without grounding (Elise is in a grounded socket).
  
 I'm getting more and more impressed with this Elise.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> You do realize don't you that you are generating tube-envy :confused_face_2:




Tube Envy. One of the strongest emotions.  

P.S. Hauskaa vappua! Glada vappen! Happy Walpurgis!


----------



## hpamdr

audict123 said:


> You forgot one winner combo for the stock HD650 Untilthen  : the FDD20 with any good power tube. These need 12V adapters, assembled mine yesterday. Boy o boy o boy - do these tubes sing with stock HD650. It has the brighter tone you mentioned, desirabble to liven up the warm HD650. But I feel there is more. This combi leaves the strong bass of the HD650 intact, but remodels it in a tighter, faster form. The bass is just insane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you like FDD20, ECC31 or KenRad VT231 with nice power tube sound also good with HD650. You can Even use a Single 6BL7 or EL3N as power tube 
 And yes even after six month of listening Elise, I'm also very impressed.
 I got a new DAC (X20) and Elise is wonderful,  with some old 6N8S as driver and Mullard 6080WA and T1.
 I was far from home with portable devices for a week and i rediscovered how enchantress she is ! 
 I did listened  "Live at Rosy's / Sarah Vaughan" a very nice release from old Tape to 2XHD.. Elise and EL3N as driver with GEC 6080 is Divine with the Divine !


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> He was truly great.




Undeniably so. Also completely bonkers.

I should be doing my taxes. What a fecking bore that is...


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/Ebnfa-OC6eI[/VIDEO]


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL I slept 

Geek is has everything or maybe more than that of PS Audio is offering on their best DAC they produced in 23 years. DAC's are coming like graphic card for gaming computers, you simply cannot keep yourself up to date 

I just bought a 5 TB drive, next might be a music server with everything. 

Music hobby is going out of my hands. I got to stop ✋ lol



hypnos1 said:


> 5 hours, LR?...YIKES! - mine sounds fabulous after 5 *MINUTES* LOL!!   ...
> 
> ps. Still over the moon with the Geek Pulse?...another possible contender DAC for the future (although the PS Audio fare also looks good!)...


----------



## Lord Raven

Now playing 

 Duke Ellington & His Orchestra - Masterpieces by Ellington - Analogue Productions - CAPJ 4418 SA (2014)
  
 Who says 0's and 1's cannot replace a Vinyl record? The twin turbo DAC is fed with SACD ISO, mono 2 channel DSD64. 
  
 1.  Mood Indigo
 2.  Sophisticated Lady
 3.  The Tattooed Bride
 4.  Solitude
 5.  Vagabonds
 6.  Smada
 7.  Rock Skippin' at the Blue Note
  
 This SACD has the long-hidden full tracks. Not constrained by vinyl limits as when 1st released, these tunes are like being in a nightclub with the band.


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> You forgot one winner combo for the stock HD650 Untilthen  : the FDD20 with any good power tube. These need 12V adapters, assembled mine yesterday. Boy o boy o boy - do these tubes sing with stock HD650. It has the brighter tone you mentioned, desirabble to liven up the warm HD650. But I feel there is more. This combi leaves the strong bass of the HD650 intact, but remodels it in a tighter, faster form. The bass is just insane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 True I've forgotten about the FDD20 because they sit in the bottom drawer. They were my fav drivers until H1 brought the EL3N to us.
  
 Many of these drivers can sound good with any power tubes. I'm on EL3N with Svetlana 6H13C (stock power tubes) now which is what aqsw is using besides his 6080. This combo is cheap and enjoyable. If you learn to appreciate even the cheap tubes, you'll find Elise delivers glorious music with any tubes. Even the Fotons 6H8C. They are just intriguingly different and sounds good.


----------



## UntilThen

Digital audio vs vinyl. Which one is better? That depends on the shape of your ears.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I have also finally gotten all of my tubes off of my desk.
> 
> 
> 
> 50 tubes in the cabinet as well as 4 tubes in the Elise. What a journey.


 
  
 ^ this is how you keep your tubes. 
  
 Not this v


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> ^ this is how you keep your tubes.
> 
> Not this v


 
 UT you just made my day - no at least my week. I have pictured your tubes carefully segregated in their own respective temperature and humidity controled compartments specially coded to a master spreadsheet. Your drawer looks like mine !!!!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> ^ this is how you keep your tubes.
> 
> Not this v


 
 Man, I thought you were all about keeping it tidy.


----------



## UntilThen

That was my altered ego. This is the real me.
  

  

  
 I've got a fetish for keeping things properly laid out. See this photo shoot?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> That was my altered ego. This is the real me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, it takes all types to make the world


----------



## UntilThen

Don't wow me @DavidA you've got more headphones than I have tubes. Go on, show us a groupie photo.


----------



## pctazhp

One of the first boxed sets of 45s I ever owned was a Harry Belafonte album and one of the first LPs I ever owned was also a Belafonte album. His calypso music helped instill in me a lifelong love of beautiful music. Listening to a video like this reminds me of how quickly that life has flown past. It also reminds me of how blessed I have been to have been introduced to music such as Belafonte's at an early age which has not only almost daily stirred my passion for music, but has also stirred so many other passions that have given me a life full of beauty, color and meaning.
  
 One reason I like this thread so much is that it is packed with so much passion.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp it reminds you to return to vinyl. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do you still have any 45s or 33s to send down under?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp it reminds you to return to vinyl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh I wish!!! Having now seen how well you take care of your tubes, my RCA Shaded Dogs and Mercury Living Precense's would have found a suitable home with you ))))


----------



## UntilThen

It's the thought that counts P. So you'll get a song. Sorry @supersonic395 this isn't Led Zep but it's better.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> It's the thought that counts P. So you'll get a song. Sorry @supersonic395 this isn't Led Zep but it's better.




 You have no idea of how many memories this brings back!!! I won't go into details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 By the way, I just experienced an epiphany. I've figured out another way to describe the difference I hear between the T1 and HD800S. The T1 sounds much more vinyl and the S much more digital.
  
 Edit:  Well, maybe I shouldn't say "much" ))


----------



## connieflyer

I think I still have a couple of Lincoln Mayorga direct cut Sculli lathes disks.  Was going to take them to resale place but maybe these two I should keep. 
    “Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues," recorded direct-to-disc for the Sheffield Lab label in 1968, was inducted into the Library of Congress’ National Recording Registry this summer. *http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2015/15-041.html*
  
*http://www.sheffieldlab.com/*



  
 The direct cut disks were and are amazing, first time I heard them could not believe it. Jelly Roll Blues, and the rest just jumped off the disk!
  
 This is a link to one of the albums even on utube it sounds good  
  
 and the other one....  this is off their demo cd


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> You have no idea of how many memories this brings back!!! I won't go into details


 
  
 Let me guess... you met Carol in 1959.


----------



## DavidA

Always love the music recommend on this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


untilthen said:


> Don't wow me @DavidA you've got more headphones than I have tubes. Go on, show us a groupie photo.


 
 I'll post a group photo when I get back some of the headphones that my son as borrowed, if you want to see the last group shot, it in the photos in my profile taken back in early 2015 I think, a few have been given away (HD-598, SHP-9500, Momentum on-ear, HE-560, and Vmoda XS) and a few added (HD-600, SR-009, T1, second HE-560) since then.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Let me guess... you met Carol in 1959.


 
 I don't kiss and tell )))


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I think I still have a couple of Lincoln Mayorga direct cut Sculli lathes disks.  Was going to take them to resale place but maybe these two I should keep.
> “Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues," recorded direct-to-disc for the Sheffield Lab label in 1968, was inducted into the Library of Congress’ National Recording Registry this summer. *http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2015/15-041.html*
> 
> *http://www.sheffieldlab.com/*
> ...


 
 Wow!!! I'd forgotten all about Sheffield Lab. Very cool )))


----------



## UntilThen

@connieflyer for all the songs you gave me, here's one for you.


----------



## connieflyer

One of my all time favorites, thanks kiddo!


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That was my altered ego. This is the real me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This seems more like you UT. Are those all of your tubes? I count 53.


----------



## connieflyer

For those that were not lucky enough to have lived this, here's one for you.....


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> This seems more like you UT. Are those all of your tubes? I count 53.


 

 No this was taken in 19th Oct 2015. I've a lot more tubes since. Need to do a new photo again. FDD20, 6N7Gs, EL3Ns and quite a few more not in there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh last photo was taken before I got Elise.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> No this was taken in 19th Oct 2015. I've a lot more tubes since. Need to do a new photo again. FDD20, 6N7Gs, EL3Ns and quite a few more not in there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You should take a new picture. Show us your collection!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @connieflyer for all the songs you gave me, here's one for you.


 
  
 Thanks also from Scottsdale. It's about time the Sultans move on to haunt someone else!!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> For those that were not lucky enough to have lived this, here's one for you.....


 
 I especially loved the Sylvania Blue Dot Flashbulbs, "We Have Sold Over 50 Million", Vitalis and S&H Green Stamps (used to help my mother put books and books of those together). But the best of all was the View Master))) I wouldn't have missed those days for anything.


----------



## mordy

HI CF,
  
 Watched the video of the the fastest organ player.
  
 Have you ever heard of Ethan Uslan? Neither have I. Here is a version of the Blue Danube Waltz played by him. I think I counted nine different jazz piano styles in this recording (sorry - the sound quality isn't the greatest, but this guy can play!):
  



>


----------



## UntilThen

audict123 said:


> You forgot one winner combo for the stock HD650 Untilthen  : the FDD20 with any good power tube. These need 12V adapters, assembled mine yesterday. Boy o boy o boy - do these tubes sing with stock HD650. It has the brighter tone you mentioned, desirabble to liven up the warm HD650. But I feel there is more. This combi leaves the strong bass of the HD650 intact, but remodels it in a tighter, faster form. The bass is just insane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm revisiting the 'Forgotten One' now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the moment you take a minute of silence and soak it all in. This is the moment you need to find your chair and sit down. Philips Miniwatt FDD20 and Tung Sol 5998 is the finest caviar. Everything as you said and totally humphrey. 
  
 I need to post the pic again.


----------



## UntilThen

1st May 2016 - a photo shoot of all my tubes. I love them all. They are carefully selected. It's what makes Elise so special.


----------



## Lord Raven

Well done UT  
  
 I think it's time, you fix those tower speakers as well after 40 years.. hehe
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> and I bought 3 LPs today after almost 40 years hahaha. Now to wait for the TT to arrive.


----------



## UntilThen

It's headphone era now. Who needs tower speakers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It's headphone era now. Who needs tower speakers.




Those who have a need for multiple, simultaneous, listeners. 

Suggestion...for an LP that sounds much better than the CD release, try Donald Fagan's "Morph The Cat". 



.


----------



## hypnos1

audict123 said:


> You forgot one winner combo for the stock HD650 Untilthen  : the FDD20 with any good power tube. These need 12V adapters, assembled mine yesterday. Boy o boy o boy - do these tubes sing with stock HD650. It has the brighter tone you mentioned, desirabble to liven up the warm HD650. But I feel there is more. This combi leaves the strong bass of the HD650 intact, but remodels it in a tighter, faster form. The bass is just insane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo A123...FDD20 = one awesome tube! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and that slight hum would disappear into the darkness, with the 12V supply grounded also, lol! (But if you're really lucky, it might just be "early" hum that goes with use...fingers crossed...).
  
 ps. UT and yourself have struck a nerve LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...as per below...
  
  


pctazhp said:


> You have no idea of how many memories this brings back!!! I won't go into details
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agree with you 100%, pct....that is certainly what also attracted me most to the EL3N in fact - thru the T1s, anyway!...more so than the C3g or FDD20 even...
  


untilthen said:


> I'm revisiting the 'Forgotten One' now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...you and Audict123 have got me on a guilt trip now - for deserting my C3gS and FDD20 proteges...how could I?!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it's all *your* fault for spotting that red-skirted temptress, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...life has never been the same since! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(at least they're still a wonderful choice for systems that benefit from their own tempting qualities...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Lord Raven

Ok I'm on headphones for now, however, tower speakers era will make a come back  I'll get them from you for a cup of coffee ☕ Hehe 



untilthen said:


> It's headphone era now. Who needs tower speakers. :wink_face:


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you and Audict123 have got me on a guilt trip now - for deserting my C3gS and FDD20 proteges...how could I?!!..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You have not missed anything. After a few hours with FDD20 and a short time with C3G, I want to return to EL3N again.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Ok I'm on headphones for now, however, tower speakers era will make a come back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You can't have my tower speakers. They are better than Miranda Kerr.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 What is the red sports car? A RX7?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> What is the red sports car? A RX7?


 

 It's a Dodge Viper RT10. I wish it is real.


----------



## mordy

LOL - taut u'll like this one better:
  




  
 An EL3N Elise
  
 U can buy one around the corner from u for $59,500 with only 8500 km
  
 http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Lotus-Elise-2013/SSE-AD-3919924/?Cr=7


----------



## UntilThen

Dang that Lotus Elise looks so sexy. @aqsw did you buy this car?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> It's a Dodge Viper RT10. I wish it is real.


 
  
  


mordy said:


> LOL - taut u'll like this one better:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT..._*now*_ I know why the EL3N caught your eye - RED is obviously your "magic switch" lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...now go get that Lotus of mordy's!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps.  My guilt trip has (thankfully!) abated after another dose of Mike Oldfield's 'Elements' (a 'best of') album...one which I can enjoy all the more for being able to turn up the wick without my ears crying submission - so you (and A123) are off the hook, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(just stay away from any more 'red' tubes...*please!!!*...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

Mike Oldfield is talented. I like this
  

  
 with this... I've made it black and white 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EL3N as drivers indeed sound very good.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> however, tower speakers era will make a come back


 
  
 You are right. I connected it and my lounge became the Sydney Opera House. Tower still works like new, amazing !. Even set the subwoofer on and the house shook. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to listen to this more now.... with Elise as preamp. The TT is coming !!!


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer




----------



## UntilThen

CF is your Elise crossing the Atlantic now?


----------



## connieflyer

Just tried the tracking number and it is in Warsaw.  Is the is the turntable you bought....???...http://extremeaudio.it/en/?portfolio=tourbillon-braccio-singolo-2..
  
  

  
 Go in to 7:35 and turntable starts... nice


----------



## connieflyer

I have to put my order in for one of these!


----------



## UntilThen

It's red so should fit in with my red Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. What have you done to me???? Every night they show up at my front door, burst in, and won't take no for an answer. Every night they tell me UT has another tube combo for me to try!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Have you tried the all Reds recently? Elise as preamp really makes my speakers sings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Eagles - Hell Freezes Over - XRCD extended resolution CD from JVC.


----------



## pctazhp

Unfortunately, I think one of my six EL3Ns is bad. I need to order another pair. Tonight I'm running (per your suggestion) C3G/7236s with HD800S. As we like to say - "sublime" !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Yup C3G with TS 7236 is like a skinny pair of jeans. Tight and outstanding. Should look and sound good with HD800S


----------



## TomNC

UT, any source you might know to order a pair of TS 7236s from? Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Tom unfortunately I don't except to lookout for it on ebay. I got mine from a seller in Australia so I have no competition.

There is an IBM branded pair from Tung Sol in Scottsdale but I think the owner is too into Sultans of Swing now to want to sell it.


----------



## TomNC

Thanks for reply. I've got a used pair now and would like to get a pair of NOS. Hope I will get lucky some time soon.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Tom unfortunately I don't except to lookout for it on ebay. I got mine from a seller in Australia so I have no competition.
> 
> There is an IBM branded pair from Tung Sol in Scottsdale but I think the owner is too into Sultans of Swing now to want to sell it.


 
 Neither the Grand Canyon nor my pair of 7236s will be leaving Arizona )))


----------



## pctazhp

And with this another weekend has come to an end


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> And with this another weekend has come to an end


 
  
 The weekend might come to an end but the music doesn't stop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After almost a day listening with speakers, I've gone back to headphone. Both sound good.


----------



## UntilThen

tomnc said:


> Thanks for reply. I've got a used pair now and would like to get a pair of NOS. Hope I will get lucky some time soon.


 

 Found a place in Australia where you can buy NOS NIB and matched pair but it's expensive at AUD$252. I believe you can buy from Woo Audio too.
  
 http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/woo-audio-tung-sol-7236-vacuum-tube-matched-pair?gclid=CJSlxefjuswCFcOTvQod6gMEQA


----------



## Lord Raven

You got to invite me over now 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> You are right. I connected it and my lounge became the Sydney Opera House. Tower still works like new, amazing !. Even set the subwoofer on and the house shook.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Unfortunately, I think one of my six EL3Ns is bad. I need to order another pair. Tonight I'm running (per your suggestion) C3G/7236s with HD800S. As we like to say - "sublime" !!!


 
  
 Hi pct....sure it's not the adapter contacts/seating? If it is indeed the tube, I'm sure Peter will see you right (assuming you got them from him!)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...good luck...
  
 ps. I presume the tube's contacts are pristine, lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DecentLevi

Is anybody using the external heater option for quad 6SN7 or quad 6BL7, would you say this is not necessary? Would it be advisable for quad EL3N? Thanks 

  
 PS - does anybody have a recommendation for where to buy C3G's? That seller in Germany never responded to my query so I'm not sure about that one


----------



## TomNC

untilthen said:


> Found a place in Australia where you can buy NOS NIB and matched pair but it's expensive at AUD$252. I believe you can buy from Woo Audio too.
> 
> http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/woo-audio-tung-sol-7236-vacuum-tube-matched-pair?gclid=CJSlxefjuswCFcOTvQod6gMEQA


 

 For the price, this has to be my last resort. I'll use my current ones until a better deal comes up. Thanks.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct....sure it's not the adapter contacts/seating? If it is indeed the tube, I'm sure Peter will see you right (assuming you got them from him!)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks H1. I think it is one of the adapters. I've got a hum unrelated to volume level on one side. So I'll replace that adapter. I love the 6XEL3Ns.
  
 By the way, I didn't get my EL3Ns from Peter. I got them from a source here in the states which is no longer available.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> The weekend might come to an end but the music doesn't stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you go to bed with your T1s


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 What sounds natural. powerful and effortless? And very quiet.
  
 This:
  




  
 EL3N and 9A of GE/TS 6BL7.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Is anybody using the external heater option for quad 6SN7 or quad 6BL7, would you say this is not necessary? Would it be advisable for quad EL3N? Thanks
> 
> PS - does anybody have a recommendation for where to buy C3G's? That seller in Germany never responded to my query so I'm not sure about that one


 
 Ensure that your total current draw isn't more than 6.8. At most 7, beyond which you need external power supply. ECC31 and 6AS7G will put you at 7A.
  
 You don't need ext PS with quad 6SN7 or quad EL3N or quad 6BL7 with C3G. *Quad 6BL7 puts you at 6A*. 
  
@Audict123 might still have some Valvo C3G/s for sale. Really lovely tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Do you go to bed with your T1s


 

 It's the best sleep therapy.


----------



## mordy

You gotta start young:
  








  
 Wonder what they are listening to that makes them fall asleep......


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps they are listening to something soothing....
  
  
 Or perhaps they prefer bluegrass....


----------



## DavidA

I used to play music for my son to get him to sleep, the mellow stuff from Chuck Mangione and Bob James worked wonders.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r00CNno_wDw
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YSW0XWFgw8
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X08_wH8GsY
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRU11ucuHmQ


----------



## UntilThen

G'day all. 2nd day I went back to listening to music on the speakers. Elise has made me rediscover the joy of full range sound again and there's no falling asleep here. Dat killer bass and dat killer soundstage.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi or @connieflyer you can't go wrong with a pair of stock power tubes at this price. You'll be surprise at the bass, besides it's good for burning in your drivers. $8.99 a pair. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6N13S-Vintage-Tube-Doube-Triode-NOS-Svetlana-6AS7G-ECC230-6H13C-year-74/182104733406?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3De519e0dede0c4de3922cb8f0b76fb0fc%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D331797069423


----------



## mordy

The above listing has ended, but the seller has more - $1 less each if you buy four:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-6N13S-Vintage-Tube-Doube-Triode-NOS-Svetlana-6AS7G-ECC230-6H13C-year-74-/182110376231?hash=item2a669fd127:g:SRUAAOSwubRXGkVh


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @DecentLevi or @connieflyer you can't go wrong with a pair of stock power tubes at this price. You'll be surprise at the bass,* besides it's good for burning in your drivers. $8.99 a pair. *
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6N13S-Vintage-Tube-Doube-Triode-NOS-Svetlana-6AS7G-ECC230-6H13C-year-74/182104733406?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3De519e0dede0c4de3922cb8f0b76fb0fc%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D331797069423


 
  
 Hey UT...beginning to think that's what I should have done instead of keeping in the GECs, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(hope they've got a good _*long*_ life!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). My excuse is that at least that way the power variable remained constant, and I could monitor the drivers' progress more accurately LOL!...good excuse, or what?!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(*please say YES!*).


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 By me the power tubes are changing all the time in search of that elusive recipe of just the right amount of analytical combined with sweetness. At the present I am going back to the black-out days of WWII: (With six ingredients this recipe is a challenge lol)
  




  
 Four 1942-43 6N7 all metal tubes + two 6BL7 as powers, and a pair of EL3N as drivers. Sounds very nice.
  
 Today I got the answer why metal tubes, and why they fell out of favor. Obviously, they are much more impact resistant than glass tubes, but when the metal tubes get hot, the metal expands, and the tube becomes micro- porous and less resistant to hold the vacuum.
  
 The trick was to manufacture a metal casing that did not expand/contract from the heating cycle of the tube so as to retain the vacuum well. For this reason the casing is painted black inside as well, in order to dissipate the heat evenly.
  
 Be it as it may, these tubes have no visual appeal without glass&glow, and can be found for about the same price that they sold for in the 40's - $1.90 (although allowing for inflation that would be roughly $25 in today's money).
  
  
 Thought you would like some tube trivia.....


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @mordy...thanks...you certainly are delving deep into the world of tubedom - and yes, a fascinating one it is indeed lol!...if not a never-ending one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I truly hope that perhaps soon you reach your own true 'nirvana'...as I myself have, after enough tube rolling to last a (well _*my!*_) lifetime...but which still pales into insignificance compared to _*some!!*_
  
 And I'm afraid I still much prefer Elise looking thus...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  

  
  
 CHEERS!!...


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Dang that Lotus Elise looks so sexy. @aqsw did you buy this car?


 
 Hey Guys, Just got back on the site. Had an emergency operation last Thursday. (Appendix).
  
 I did not buy that car, but I did own a 1984 Lotus Esprit back in the 90s. It was not worth the hassle. Could not get a
 decent mechanic to even look at it. Glad I got rid of it.
  
 My car is not an exotic, but not a regular car you will see on the road every day either. A hint for my give away. I'm recouperating in bed now. Should be good to go in a day or two.


----------



## supersonic395

It would be interesting to see how small or large everyone's equipment improvements are? 

For example I'm going from mp3 (128kps) Sony Walkman into inexpensive ear phones (Sony) To 

Flac new Sony Walkman >> line out to Elise >> to beyerdynamic T1.2

Imo a pretty big jump in quality across the board. I have to say re-ripping close to 2000 CDs is tedious but a great to archive it at the same time...the flac files sound so good just from laptop to in ear headphones so with the new Sony nwzx100 and the Elise driven T1.2....I can't wait!


----------



## mordy

Hi aqsw,
  
 Wish you well and a speedy recovery!


----------



## connieflyer

Asqw, sorry to hear about the operation but also happy that they caught it in time. Good luck to you and hope you have a speedy recovery. All the best ,Don


----------



## connieflyer

UT Elisee is in New York


----------



## connieflyer

Just got shipping confirmation pair of those tubes shipped


----------



## pctazhp

supersonic395 said:


> It would be interesting to see how small or large everyone's equipment improvements are?
> 
> For example I'm going from mp3 (128kps) Sony Walkman into inexpensive ear phones (Sony) To
> 
> ...


 
 You are going from riding a bicycle to driving one of those cars that the car nuts on this thread love to talk about


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Four 1942-43 6N7 all metal tubes + two 6BL7 as powers, and a pair of EL3N as drivers. Sounds very nice.


 
  
 mordy you're driving a V8 now. Don't go over the speed limit.


----------



## pctazhp

Everyone here has his own preferences when it comes to headphones and tubes, and at times the discussion gets, well shall we say "exciting" ))) I'm probably about to make everyone mad at me!!!
  
 Ever since I got my HD800S I've been doing everything I can think of to love them. Almost daily I log on to HeadFi and read the 800 and 800S threads, and see so many people praise these headphones to the heavens, and wonder what the heck is wrong with me!!! Moreover, ever since owning a pair of Sennheiser HD724s (see:http://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/sennheiser-hd-414-and-424/) back in the 70s, I've had a soft part in my heart for Sennheiser. The closest I've gotten to that "love" for the S is running UT's suggested C3G/7236 combination. For several days I ran the S exclusively with C3G/7236, and finally I thought I'd check out how the T1s like that combo. And what I found is that C3G/7236 truly is a magic combination with the T1s (and yes, to my ears, clearly surpasses the HD800S with that same combination). It is my new favorite combo.
  
 Just to check it out, I then popped in the EL3N/TS6520s with the T1s and by comparison it sounded bloated and I seemed to detect some unnatural resonance or coloration missing with C3G/7236. Admittedly, in my experience the EL3N can be a little aggressive as a driver and may be a better match with 5998s or quad EL3Ns, which later tonight I'm going to try with a view to comparing with C3G/7236. SO MANY TUBES, SO LITTLE TIME 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now that I have at least alienated all the Sennheiser and EL3N fans, I do have to say that they all sound magical and totally wonderful - provided you are using the ELISE))) Will you T1 guys at least still talk to me from time to time??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers everyone))
  
 PS. Be sure to check out that site. It has a list on the right hand side of some really cool classic vintage audio gear.
  
 PPS. Lest you think my problem with the 800S is due to some short-coming in the Elise, please keep in mind that the Valhalla 2 is often sited as a great tube amp for the 800 and 800S. I can assure you that (at least here in Scottsdale) Elise blows the V2 out of the water with HD800S.
  
 Edit:  To clarify, UT suggest C3G/7236 specifically for the S, and not necessarily the best for T1. Don't want to get him in trouble with the EL3N fans )))


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys, Just got back on the site. Had an emergency operation last Thursday. (Appendix).
> 
> I did not buy that car, but I did own a 1984 Lotus Esprit back in the 90s. It was not worth the hassle. Could not get a
> decent mechanic to even look at it. Glad I got rid of it.
> ...


 

 aqsw you bought this, driver not included. Now do I get the Hegel?


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> It would be interesting to see how small or large everyone's equipment improvements are?
> 
> For example I'm going from mp3 (128kps) Sony Walkman into inexpensive ear phones (Sony) To
> 
> ...


 
 It's like going from the Monkees to Led Zeppelin. 
  
 For me, Elise make me rediscover my music again. From listening to all my CDs, to listening to my lounge stereo system again. Perhaps I should connect Elise to my car sound system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


connieflyer said:


> UT Elisee is in New York


 
 First thing I see when I woke up. Seems like Elise is modeling in NY. 
  
 Congrats on snagging the pair of Svetlana 6H13C at a super cheap price.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> aqsw you bought this, driver not included. Now do I get the Hegel?


 
 If no one else wants her, I'll take the driver )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Edit:  To clarify, UT suggest C3G/7236 specifically for the S, and not necessarily the best for T1. Don't want to get him in trouble with the EL3N fans )))


 
 P, that combo should sound good too with T1 Gen 2. Remember HD800S and T1 G2 have been retuned. 
  
 I'd say enjoy all those tubes. They are super classy with Elise. C3G, ECC31, FDD20, 6N7G, EL3N all pretty exotic stuff. I'll bet that you'll have lots of fun just swapping them occasionally and using different headphones.
  
 Variety is the spice of life - so says the English poet William Cowper 18th century. I'm very sure he was referring to rolling various tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> P, that combo should sound good too with T1 Gen 2. Remember HD800S and T1 G2 have been retuned.
> 
> I'd say enjoy all those tubes. They are super classy with Elise. C3G, ECC31, FDD20, 6N7G, EL3N all pretty exotic stuff. I'll bet that you'll have lots of fun just swapping them occasionally and using different headphones.
> 
> Variety is the spice of life - so says the English poet William Cowper 18th century. I'm very sure he was referring to rolling various tubes.


 
 Speaking of fun, crank this up on those tower speakers and sub-woofer in high gear:


----------



## pctazhp

After Deep Purple, don't miss the Celine Dion or Tina Turner version. Speaking of Tina, has she never made an appearance on this thread??? Is that possible !!!!


----------



## pctazhp

If you have an Elise and just listened to the last 4 videos I just recommended (as I just did) and you aren't in outer space (as I clearly am), then you died yesterday!!! And for the Sennheiser fans, I went straight through all 4 with the HD800S ))))


----------



## UntilThen

Tina Turner did this 1989 promo of Australian Rugby League and we love her.


----------



## pctazhp

I'm sorry, but I just have to make sure you see the right Celine Dion and Tina Turner versions.
  

  
  

  
 OK. I'm going back in my cage now !!!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Tina Turner did this 1989 promo of Australian Rugby League and we love her.


 
  Very cool )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm sorry, but I just have to make sure you see the right Celine Dion and Tina Turner versions.


 
 Super charged performances. I can't do better than that.


----------



## pctazhp

You know, @UntilThen. I think we are really on to something. I have heard more than my share of some of the finest audio systems ever assembled. And I have never been moved by electronically reproduced music as I am with the Elise.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> It's like going from the Monkees to Led Zeppelin.
> 
> For me, Elise make me rediscover my music again. From listening to all my CDs, to listening to my lounge stereo system again. Perhaps I should connect Elise to my car sound system. :blink:
> 
> ...







pctazhp said:


> You are going from riding a bicycle to driving one of those cars that the car nuts on this thread love to talk about




I can't wait for the Elise to arrive...it's going to awesome!!


----------



## UntilThen

Alright @pctazhp  I've got on Valvo C3G and Tung Sol 7236 with modded HD650 now as well as T1 classic. Very good tone indeed. 
  
 ..and I'm old school and love this song.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, you share awesome music. Keep it coming  Keep rocking Elise. I am listening to Mahler symphonies these days, you won't believe, this is my first time with Mahler.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow my replacement ear pads for T1 original arrived. I knew my old pads were a bit worn but I have no idea what a new pair of pads will do. Now music snaps to attention. Bass has that tightness like skinny jeans indeed. Sparkling highs. There's bite now. Like a Doberman. Fits nicer on the ears too as the pads are very cushy. 
  

  
 New on the left, old on the right. Can see that the old are more flattened.


----------



## connieflyer

Try Mickey with the new pads...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> You know, @UntilThen. I think we are really on to something. I have heard more than my share of some of the finest audio systems ever assembled. And I have never been moved by electronically reproduced music as I am with the Elise.


 

 I get what you mean.


----------



## mordy

Just listened to a concert of 1920's New Orleans jazz played at Whitley Bay in 2012. I was transported there by my 8 cyl Elise and for once I listened through my Yamaha MT-220 headphones - felt like I was sitting at the back of the audience - the age group certainly seemed to fit well.
  
 Whitley Bay is some kind of British venue where jazz musicians playing in the old styles gather from around the globe in the fall every year.. The band here has musicians from the US, UK, France, and the band leader, Michael McQuaid, is from Australia.
  
 They play several selections from a band called the Halfway House Orchestra - the original recordings were made in New Orleans from 1925-1928. This band is almost unknown, but deserves much more recognition. The re-creations are 100% authentic and very well played.
  
 Here is a sample: Snookum, played by Michael McQuaid's Halfway House Orchestra.
  

  
 There are maybe half a dozen recordings from this session. On YouTube there are two people who posted the same tunes - Swingyoucats has much better sound quality than the other person.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright @pctazhp  I've got on Valvo C3G and Tung Sol 7236 with modded HD650 now as well as T1 classic. Very good tone indeed.
> 
> ..and I'm old school and love this song.




 I love that song, but haven't heard it or even thought about it for years. Thanks))
  
 Great news on your new ear pads. And glad you like the tube combo ))


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Mordy. Snookum is different. We do have a wide range of music here but it's good to sample everything. I was quite mesmerised by the drummer hitting the cymbals. 
  
 pctazhp, C3g and 7236 is too overwhelming for T1 original with new pads. Too sparkling.  Revert back to EL3N and 7236 now.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> It would be interesting to see how small or large everyone's equipment improvements are?
> 
> For example I'm going from mp3 (128kps) Sony Walkman into inexpensive ear phones (Sony) To
> 
> ...


 
 The Sony nwzx100 is a substantial DAP, supporting DSD64 and 128 as well. I don't suppose you've heard your T1 G2 through the Sony yet?
  
 So you're going line out to Elise. ie 3.5mm to pair of RCA connect. I've done that with Fiio X5 to Elise.
  
 Would be interesting to see how your setup works when you get Elise.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> The Sony nwzx100 is a substantial DAP, supporting DSD64 and 128 as well. I don't suppose you've heard your T1 G2 through the Sony yet?
> 
> So you're going line out to Elise. ie 3.5mm to pair of RCA connect. I've done that with Fiio X5 to Elise.
> 
> Would be interesting to see how your setup works when you get Elise.




I haven't used the T1.2 with the Sony yet as I'm going to wait until the Elise is here  

In the meantime I'm preparing all of my music into Flac! 

In terms of setup, yup I'll effectively be using the nwzx100 as a dac whilst bypassing the internal Sony amp and feeding the signal into the Elise. I'll be using the Fiio line out cable and from there the (female) 3.5mm to rca into Elise...output to T1.2 sending me hopefully beyond the Infinite like Bowman


----------



## UntilThen

untilthen said:


> pctazhp, C3g and 7236 is too overwhelming for T1 original with new pads. Too sparkling.  Revert back to EL3N and 7236 now.


 
 Amazing what new ear pads can do. There's more details and sparkles and bass has more punch - tight.
  
 I have to go back to EL3N and Chatham 6520. Getting more lush and texture. It's about just right now. I see why H1's so into EL3N and GEC 6AS7G now with his new T1 original.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Everyone here has his own preferences when it comes to headphones and tubes, and at times the discussion gets, well shall we say "exciting" ))) I'm probably about to make everyone mad at me!!!
> 
> Ever since I got my HD800S I've been doing everything I can think of to love them. Almost daily I log on to HeadFi and read the 800 and 800S threads, and see so many people praise these headphones to the heavens, and wonder what the heck is wrong with me!!! Moreover, ever since owning a pair of Sennheiser HD724s (see:http://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/sennheiser-hd-414-and-424/) back in the 70s, I've had a soft part in my heart for Sennheiser. The closest I've gotten to that "love" for the S is running UT's suggested C3G/7236 combination. For several days I ran the S exclusively with C3G/7236, and finally I thought I'd check out how the T1s like that combo. And what I found is that C3G/7236 truly is a magic combination with the T1s (and yes, to my ears, clearly surpasses the HD800S with that same combination). It is my new favorite combo.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct...of course no-one is offended - or at least_* shouldn't*_ be, lol...everyone's system/ears are different...(in case you didn't know!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 As UT says, a good bit re. the T1s is no doubt due to the differences between gen1 and 2...it was a sad day indeed when I had to say goodbye to my beloved C3g'S's! (I'm also coming more and more to the realisation that the DAC has a _*much*_ greater influence on matters than some might think LOL...to the point where I'm even close to trying a custom-made Tube DAC, based on the ESS Sabre as in my Audiolab 8200CD)......
  
 ps.  Looks promising?
  

  

  
 (I also like the use of three separate transformers here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


lord raven said:


> Guys, you share awesome music. Keep it coming  Keep rocking Elise. I am listening to Mahler symphonies these days, you won't believe, this is my first time with Mahler.


 
  
 First time with the great man, LR?....boy, are you in for a treat lol! - those soaring melodies, choral masterpieces and awesome orchestral dynamics are something else through Elise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> Wow my replacement ear pads for T1 original arrived. I knew my old pads were a bit worn but I have no idea what a new pair of pads will do. Now music snaps to attention. Bass has that tightness like skinny jeans indeed. Sparkling highs. There's bite now. Like a Doberman. Fits nicer on the ears too as the pads are very cushy.
> 
> 
> 
> New on the left, old on the right. Can see that the old are more flattened.


 
  
 Well UT...after all, you _have_ been doing a fair bit of "ear bashing" these past months, to say the least!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but would never have thought that would make such a difference. Will have to keep an eye (and a tape measure!) out for this one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad to hear you're now on the mend @aqsw, and that things were indeed caught in time...keep us posted...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 As for you @supersonic395...keep an eye on the ol' blood pressure - Elise can have quite an effect in this area...even _*before*_ you see her in the flesh...(actually, some would say _*more*_ so before she actually arrives, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










).


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Thanks Mordy. Snookum is different. We do have a wide range of music here but it's good to sample everything. I was quite mesmerised by the drummer hitting the cymbals.
> 
> pctazhp, C3g and 7236 is too overwhelming for T1 original with new pads. Too sparkling.  Revert back to EL3N and 7236 now.


 
 I agree EL3N/7236 is a better match for T1. Difficult for me to imagine being "imprisoned" by the lack of flexibility in a solid state amp.
  
 @mordy. I loved the piano in Snookum. Great to see musicians like that who are so dedicated to their art they preserve what is special from the past.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I get what you mean.


 
 VERY HIGH MAINTENANCE !!!


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct...of course no-one is offended - or at least_* shouldn't*_ be, lol...everyone's system/ears are different...(in case you didn't know!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 H1. You're the one who got me started down this Elise path, and my pocketbook still hasn't forgiven you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It has forbidden me from reading any post from you discussing DACs


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1. You're the one who got me started down this Elise path, and my pocketbook still hasn't forgiven you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh dear, pct...better not look at the photos I've just edited into my post then, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....CHEERS!!


----------



## connieflyer

That is a nice looking Dac, care to share specs with us?  Looks interesting..  As far as Sennheiser goes, I started with the HD-25, HD 380 Pro, 2 pair of 650's a pair of 700's and now the 800 (old style).  Before the 800's I did try a pair of T-1's and really liked them, would still have them instead of the 800's but they developed a slight muddy sound in the left driver, and Amazon would give me credit, but could not replace them, had to reorder from same distributor, and decided not to.  The first pair, I think was not new, as Beyer would never have let them go with a small scratch on the left earcup. Great sounding phone, but the Senn 800 is also a great sounding phone, after reading some reviews on the new version 800s, decided to seek out original 800 new and glad I did.  Should be interesting to re-listen to everything once  my Elise gets her.


----------



## pctazhp

On YouTube there are 6,906 thumbs down for this video. Some people just don't deserve the eyes and ears God gave them !!!


----------



## connieflyer

She is a remarkable person as well as a great singer, just no accounting for some people.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> That is a nice looking Dac, care to share specs with us?  Looks interesting..  As far as Sennheiser goes, I started with the HD-25, HD 380 Pro, 2 pair of 650's a pair of 700's and now the 800 (old style).  Before the 800's I did try a pair of T-1's and really liked them, would still have them instead of the 800's but they developed a slight muddy sound in the left driver, and Amazon would give me credit, but could not replace them, had to reorder from same distributor, and decided not to.  The first pair, I think was not new, as Beyer would never have let them go with a small scratch on the left earcup. Great sounding phone, but the Senn 800 is also a great sounding phone, after reading some reviews on the new version 800s, decided to seek out original 800 new and glad I did.  Should be interesting to re-listen to everything once  my Elise gets her.


 
  
 Hi connie...this DAC is one of several based on different chips, and made by a very small outfit here in the UK. As such, there's precious little feedback on his units alas, and so would appear to be rather a gamble - as is often the case in such circumstances. However, a trial period is allowed, so some idea of performance can at least be gained.
  
 The units are minimal _*to say the least!*_ - all but one have no display; just 1 coax and 1 optical in (USB module optional extra - but only PCM...there's no DSD functionality); RCA out only...so no "bells and whistles". However, this doesn't bother me unduly, as I am a firm believer in the old adage "less is more"....well -  often, at least! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...And I prefer coax over USB anyway...24bit 192kHz is good enough for me - don't really want to spend a whole load more on DSD files!! No display?...the advice is usually to turn it off anyway, lol!
  
 And so I can understand these units not appealing to everyone...._*however!*_...
  
 His DACs can be seen at his (cables) website....http://www.malbru-cables.com/
  
 So sad about your experience with the T1s...but I'm sure your Senns will sound fabulous in Elise - which should be VERY soon now, no?!! That "re-listening" to 'old' music is one of the most astounding experiences I myself have had since she's been in my life - as echoed by a good many others already!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...can't wait to hear your findings...


----------



## UntilThen

H1 the malbru dacs reminds me of the Australian Redgum http://www.redgumaudio.com with that front wood facia.


----------



## supersonic395

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct...of course no-one is offended - or at least _*shouldn't*_ be, lol...everyone's system/ears are different...(in case you didn't know!!! :wink_face:  ).
> 
> As UT says, a good bit re. the T1s is no doubt due to the differences between gen1 and 2...it was a sad day indeed when I had to say goodbye to my beloved C3g'S's! (I'm also coming more and more to the realisation that the DAC has a _*much*_ greater influence on matters than some might think LOL...to the point where I'm even close to trying a custom-made Tube DAC, based on the ESS Sabre as in my Audiolab 8200CD)......
> 
> ...




Ha lol 

I'll try to keep my excitement in check! 

Speaking of which, has connieflyer received his Elise yet?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @Audict123 might still have some Valvo C3G/s for sale. Really lovely tubes.




This is one tough thread to keep up with...

I really like his Valvos (presumably made by Siemens), a bit more extended than my older Lorenz tubes perhaps and a lot less microphonic.

I still haven't switched back to EL3Ns. I do like the C3gs!


----------



## WB2016

Hi Everyone,

just wanted to give those of you who want an impression on my Elise, with the tubes still starting to burn in. 
I haven't got much of a chance listening to headphones, mainly because I just got back an will prepare for the Munich High End which starts tomorrow!

Tomorrow will be Trade Day only open to the industry and select clients. If everything goes well we'll get a chance to hear the new Sennheiser 1060 HP/AMP combo and compare it to Staxx 009 and co with a client.

I myself am more interested in what is happening in the DAC world because the most seems to be changing here in little time and the research trickles down fairly quickly or is immitated by chinese and other manufacturers. 

If I have time I will try to see how all the new gear at the McIntosh room is like before they get flooded by their "fanboys" on Friday. They are always one of the "rockstars" there, but if you want to listen to anything it becomes almost unbarable. Anyway let me know if there is anything particular you want me to check out. 

The professional car audio is really getting crazy now at the High End, hugely growing market, but less the big boom category, but exceptional high-end in a car, thanks to DC power source, sophisticated measurement and sound insulation integrated by the manufacturers just for high end (e.g. BMW, Audi and Mercedes) really makes your spine tingle and has little to do with the car audio I installed in my cars... Not sure if I am such a huge fan since I like the aspect of fun in a car, but some of the sophistication combined with air suspension I can see the appeal, especially if you spend a lot of time getting from A to B.

So if someone really wants to have an oppinion about something at Munich HE 2016 let me know. I will check PM tomorrow morning and see what I can do.

Cheers
WB


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1 the malbru dacs reminds me of the Australian Redgum http://www.redgumaudio.com with that front wood facia.


 
  
 Those amps look really nice UT...bet they sound pretty good too, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


oskari said:


> This is one tough thread to keep up with...
> 
> I really like his Valvos (presumably made by Siemens), a bit more extended than my older Lorenz tubes perhaps and a lot less microphonic.
> 
> I still haven't switched back to EL3Ns. I do like the C3gs!


 
  
 Yes indeed O...if the Valvos are indeed the same as the Siemens, then they will most certainly have more 'excitement' about them IMHO...(but which can sometimes become a bit overpowering in an already bright system/over-sensitive ears!!)...
  
 ps.  Sounds like your EL3Ns will be a good while yet before getting 400+ hours on 'em, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but patience _*is*_ indeed a virtue! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## WB2016

Oops wanted to give you guys and girls a quick update on the Elise. I am currently trying to burn in the tubes to get an impression, but after giving stock and EL3N tubes about 24hrs of no music heating up burnin of 2x12 hrs of no music, Then now about 12hrs of music using the Elise as a preamp for most tubes, where the Elise already shows the overall character and why it has such a following. Need to train my ears for tomorrows Munich HighEnd, doing golden ears, studio monitors, reference piano recordings, etc.

Impressions 12h Stocktubes powers, preamp, is nice and suprisingly musical even after just 12hrs of playing, sweet and nice.

Impressions 5hrs of C3Gs Siemens powers preamp, wow these have a great sense of saddness and melancholy, still developing a bit, lot of change in trebble. Sensitive to external interference, power, jitter, vibration but I can see the appeal. Very good for sad and French films. Sometimes a tad painful in the trebble with some soso recordings.

The EL3Ns 12hrs, quads as preamp power. Man they are as Noiccce as I remember! Wow, how good they are without being burned in at all. Especially the bass, PRAT and soundstage already is quite impressive. They just add a sparkle to most anything and I even watch TV with them. Need about 4 hours to warm up propperly and best after about 8-10hrs. Just watched Walking Dead with and without them and amazing how much tubes add to the enotionality of the human voice. I could see the appeal of a 7.2 channel amp with a tube preamp running EL3Ns at least for the front and center channel. 

I am familiar with the EL3Ns but they do match nicely with the Elise. Overall I have to say I am very impressed, especially regarding the price. Sure there are objectively better amps out there, but for the price, it delivers the magic, sophistication and especially the emotion of the music and this is while its still basically new. The noise floor is definitely low enough, brings out the necessary details, while adding a touch of golden hue and honiness, without the dripping gooey and loss of sophistication. The Elise really makes you listen to more music, so absolutely no complaints here. Subjectively she is really all one could want to enjoy music if you can let go a bit. 

After doing some listening the next days at the HighEnd I will hopefully have a better objective idea of where to place the Elise in comparison to the TopTop dogs, even if it is a shame she will not be nearly ready to show her full potential due to some delays... 

But what I see I am liking a lot and happy she did come in time for Munich.


Well got to to go off to dinner and showing some clients Munich bear cellars... 

Cheers
WB


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed O...if the Valvos are indeed the same as the Siemens, then they will most certainly have more 'excitement' about them IMHO...(but which can sometimes become a bit overpowering in an already bright system/over-sensitive ears!!)...




Indeed. I can only agree.




> ps.  Sounds like your EL3Ns will be a good while yet before getting 400+ hours on 'em, lol!!  :wink_face: ...but patience _*is*_ indeed a virtue!  ...




Yeah. That's the way it is. :rolleyes:


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> Oops wanted to give you guys and girls a quick update on the Elise. I am currently trying to burn in the tubes to get an impression, but after giving stock and EL3N tubes about 24hrs of no music heating up burnin of 2x12 hrs of no music, Then now about 12hrs of music using the Elise as a preamp for most tubes, where the Elise already shows the overall character and why it has such a following. Need to train my ears for tomorrows Munich HighEnd, doing golden ears, studio monitors, reference piano recordings, etc.
> 
> Impressions 12h Stocktubes powers, preamp, is nice and suprisingly musical even after just 12hrs of playing, sweet and nice.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your early impressions WB...and glad you like what you hear already - yes indeed, a great shame she - and the tubes - are nowhere near their best...the improvement is quite substantial, to say the least! So this is something  you will be able to look forward to...HOPEFULLY, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Enjoy your time in the stratosphere! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

Elise is in the house!  What can I say, CF Thomson powers Ken-Rad 6SN7 drivers,  has been in use all of 15 minutes, and to think I was worried?  I am humbled by the ones who have walked this path before me and appreciate their help and encouragement to wait it out.  Was it worth it?  All I can say is WOW!!! No burn in on tubes except 6Sn7's and it sounds this good!  Amazing, it is larger than I thought it would be, from the pictures, never bothered to read the specs on size and realize it.  Had to clean off the other side of my desk!  Not that it wasn't time.  Thank you all, for your advice and friendship.  I have to take time out now and thank Lukasz for his patience and his father for a great design.  And to think these are just the first tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Elise is in the house!  What can I say, CF Thomson powers Ken-Rad 6SN7 drivers,  has been in use all of 15 minutes, and to think I was worried?  I am humbled by the ones who have walked this path before me and appreciate their help and encouragement to wait it out.  Was it worth it?  All I can say is WOW!!! No burn in on tubes except 6Sn7's and it sounds this good!  Amazing, it is larger than I thought it would be, from the pictures, never bothered to read the specs on size and realize it.  Had to clean off the other side of my desk!  Not that it wasn't time.  Thank you all, for your advice and friendship.  I have to take time out now and thank Lukasz for his patience and his father for a great design.  And to think these are just the first tubes.


 
  
 AT LAST connie!...great news....and WOW! is just what we like to hear. Glad you held out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...good times ahead, lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!......


----------



## connieflyer

If it is possible, this is CRAZY good!  Fingers are giving out changing songs!


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, had a small problem with this amp all ready.  Found that the volume kept creeping up, till it was quite loud.  Happened a couple of times, but found the problem, saw my right had going over to volumne knob and turning it up!  Shame on me!  Got to go now and feed the dog, the wife and then back for more.  Thanks all.


----------



## mordy

Hi connieflyer,
  
 Congrats on your new Elise! As good as it sounds now, rest assured that it is going to sound MUCH better with time. Just be patient, and enjoy the 150 hour trip until it is burned in, not to speak about burning in all the tubes that you may want to try.
  
  
 Hi UT,
 As for myself, I now have an eight cylinder Elise, meaning that I am running two driver tubes and six power tubes. Truth is, I am trying something new, namely mixing different power tubes. In some circles this is considered audiophile heresy, travesty, and sonic perversity, not to mention the dangers of electrical overload and the perils of fire hazards and explosions.
  
 Ignorance is bliss. Plus, I am starting to ignore my beloved Elise. The sound I get now from various power tube combinations is so beautiful and involving that I forget about the equipment and get more involved with the music than ever before.
  
 With external power and a 4" cooling fan the Elise feels more like an ice cube than a hot amp.
  
 Today's power tube recipe calls for two each of 6BL7, 6N7 and 6BX7 for a current draw of 7.6A. Deep, satisfying bass, a drop too bright treble adjusted with tone control. A lively, in your face, vivid presentation with great detail, timbre, air and sound stage. And really engaging, making you feel you are there....
  
  




  
 To the left is my 15A voltage regulator, set to 6.49V and delivering 6.35V at the sockets. The massive grey heat sinks on the voltage regulator do not even get warm.
  
 Here is a rendition of a Jelly Roll Morton number, Shreveport Stomp played by Matthias Seuffert cl, Keith Nichols p and Nick Ward, d.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> This is one tough thread to keep up with...
> 
> I really like his Valvos (presumably made by Siemens), a bit more extended than my older Lorenz tubes perhaps and a lot less microphonic.
> 
> I still haven't switched back to EL3Ns. I do like the C3gs!


 

 I couldn't agree with you more. Woke up and this thread is abuzz !!!
  
 Careful with the C3Gs. They are for desserts not main meals.


----------



## supersonic395

wb2016 said:


> Oops wanted to give you guys and girls a quick update on the Elise. I am currently trying to burn in the tubes to get an impression, but after giving stock and EL3N tubes about 24hrs of no music heating up burnin of 2x12 hrs of no music, Then now about 12hrs of music using the Elise as a preamp for most tubes, where the Elise already shows the overall character and why it has such a following. Need to train my ears for tomorrows Munich HighEnd, doing golden ears, studio monitors, reference piano recordings, etc.
> 
> Impressions 12h Stocktubes powers, preamp, is nice and suprisingly musical even after just 12hrs of playing, sweet and nice.
> 
> ...




Awesome chap, glad to read you like it and hopefully the memories of the wait time slowly fade into a distant memory.



connieflyer said:


> Elise is in the house!  What can I say, CF Thomson powers Ken-Rad 6SN7 drivers,  has been in use all of 15 minutes, and to think I was worried?  I am humbled by the ones who have walked this path before me and appreciate their help and encouragement to wait it out.  Was it worth it?  All I can say is WOW!!! No burn in on tubes except 6Sn7's and it sounds this good!  Amazing, it is larger than I thought it would be, from the pictures, never bothered to read the specs on size and realize it.  Had to clean off the other side of my desk!  Not that it wasn't time.  Thank you all, for your advice and friendship.  I have to take time out now and thank Lukasz for his patience and his father for a great design.  And to think these are just the first tubes.




Similarly this awesome to read. Can you tell us what headphones you're using please? Also there's something extra sophisticated about those tubes...what kind of sound signature do they yield in terms of bass?


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats @connieflyer and @WB2016 on ownership of Elise and I can see you are more than happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It amazed me that there has not been one bad review of Elise. Quite amazing. On the contrary, all impressions are solid. We're not hyping that's for sure. Elise is an incredible tube amp. Henryk has really put his expertise on Elise. Like I say, by the next Las Vegas CES, Elise will be well known.
  
@mordy cheers to good sound for you. I won't be running external power supply because I've found my audio nirvana with the tubes that I have. Elise is incredibly adaptable and I'm amazed at all the different combinations that goes well with her.
  
 Safe tube rolling everyone and enjoy Elise for a long long time.


----------



## oshipao

connieflyer and WB2016

Congratulations! I am beginning to get nervous about receiving the Elise now. Glad to hear that 6080 + 6sn7 sounds great of the shelf! Myself has bought a pair of Sylvania 6sn7gtb and will start from there. Maybe i'll end up as UntilThen and hypnos1 and drive it Frankenstyle wise with EL3Ns.

I listen to this right now and rearrange the lettering so it spells ELISE. Let the good times roll!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCA-ieu74ko


----------



## connieflyer

I am using Sennheiser 800 headphones, not the new version "S" the original's.  I just changed out the Ken-Rad VT-231's for Sylvania VT-231's and the difference is palpable.  The K-R's had slightly better bass, but a little darker, the Sylvania's the highs are very good indeed.  Midrange is full and present in the right amount, I prefer these over the K-R's now.  The 6SN7's I have had and used for awhile so they are totally burned in.  The CF-Thomson's 6080 sound very good for a pair of tubes that were inexpensive.  Have just scratched the surface, of tube rolling, so will take it nice and slow.  As  far as doing a head to head with the Ember, there is no point. I reached as far as I could with the ember with dual 6L5G's, and it is nice, but this amp new out of the box is obviously better in every way.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I am using Sennheiser 800 headphones, not the new version "S" the original's.  I just changed out the Ken-Rad VT-231's for Sylvania VT-231's and the difference is palpable.  The K-R's had slightly better bass, but a little darker, the Sylvania's the highs are very good indeed.  Midrange is full and present in the right amount, I prefer these over the K-R's now.  The 6SN7's I have had and used for awhile so they are totally burned in.  The CF-Thomson's 6080 sound very good for a pair of tubes that were inexpensive.  Have just scratched the surface, of tube rolling, so will take it nice and slow.  As  far as doing a head to head with the Ember, there is no point. I reached as far as I could with the ember with dual 6L5G's, and it is nice, but this amp new out of the box is obviously better in every way.


 
 It is really exciting to read about your introduction to Elise. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.
  
 Your experience with the amp fresh out of the box and the experience of @WB2016 have inspired me to go back and listen to the original tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

I just listened to the original cast of Phantom of the Opera with MIchael Crawford and Sarah Brightman and when she hits that last high note at the end of the song was amazing, had to run and kiss the dog, poor thing he thought I had lost my mind, oh yea, I think I have!
  
  
  
 This is not the best quality but if you can find the original it is utterly uncanny


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I just listened to the original cast of Phantom of the Opera with MIchael Crawford and Sarah Brightman and when she hits that last high note at the end of the song was amazing, had to run and kiss the dog, poor thing he thought I had lost my mind, oh yea, I think I have!


 
 As many times as I have listened to Phantom it still brings goose bumps. I had a first row seat to a Sarah Brightman concert a number of years ago. So great))
  
 Here's one to test your memory. Do you remember Lee Marvin? A true one-of-a-kind. Maybe this is good for burning in your new Elise )))


----------



## UntilThen

It's alright to kiss the dog but dont kiss the tubes.

I'm out sightseeing today but will read all about your excitements with Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

Changed out the RCA Grey Glass 6SN7, for the Sylvania's, a little more bass,guitar and vocals sound clear and crisp, lower volumne highs are still good, prefer the Sylvania's


----------



## connieflyer

Paint your wagon was a lot of fun, but they had raised the price of the movies from 11 cents to 21 cents, allowance barely covered it, no popcorn!


----------



## connieflyer

Another great song from that movie...


----------



## connieflyer

Where you at the movies to see............  Gary Cooper?
  
 Never missed an episode of this tv show..


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. WOW. Were we twins separated at birth ??? )))
  
 I also really liked "They Call the Wind Maria". And loved the Kingston Trio version on their Hungry I album.
  
 And for sure I very much remember High Noon, Gary Cooper and Grace Kelly. One of the first movies I ever saw - at the Senator Drive-In theater in Prescott, Arizona !!!
  
 And, me too - never missed an episode of Paladin.
  
 All of those are very vivid and special memories for me )))
  
 Edit:  Want to explain a little more why High Noon was so special for me. It was released in 1952. My father had died 2 years earlier and my mother did everything she could to create a close family for me and my two older sisters. One of our favorite things was all going to the drive-in theater together, and that's when I saw High Noon. Thanks for a nice memory.


----------



## UntilThen

CF time to pop in the EL3Ns .... carefully.


----------



## DecentLevi

That's completely rockin' @connieflyer - and it was me who swayed you over here. I'm glad for you, and that you finally realise this thread isn't all hype, but it's real.
  
 Your 'review' of the Elise compared to the Ember is spot on too - there's almost no point in doing so. And in fact it's quite amazing considering how many times I already felt pleased with the sound of the Ember, how much further the Elise takes things. And from my many tube combinations thus far, it seems the Elise REALLY shines the best with quad powers (the instrument separation, soundstage, overall resolution, etc. all seem to really open up with the likes of quad 6J5 or 7193), though from what I hear around here it gets even better.
  
 That's why I have my two dual EL3N and 6BL7 / 6SN7 adapters on the way, and will see how great this marvel really can sound.
  
 And I will also be taking the Elise with this pimped-out setup this summer, to what will probably be it's first ever appearance at an official Head-Fi meet.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> If it is possible, this is CRAZY good!  Fingers are giving out changing songs!


 
 So pleased to hear this, Don.
 I'm encouraged you find the stock tubes (if I've got you correctly) so good, as having to invest in lots of tubes, purchased from the USA, with all the extra charges that would entail, plus all the mind boggling combinations was, to be honest, putting me off a bit trying to get my senile head round it all.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Could you, DecentLevi or anyone else, just in a couple of sentences maybe, explain in a bit more detail how it's sound differs from Ember?
 That would be really helpful.
 Thanks.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well, having just sold my Ember off earlier this week, the sooner the better for any comparison before memory gets any hazier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well about the only thing that remains unchanged is the FR; that is, the ability to reproduce the highest to the lowest frequency. Otherwize:
 Impact, soundstage: 40% better. Lifelike / organic sound along with overall resolution / fidelity: 250% better. Instrument separation: 100% better. Bass definition: 100% better. 
  
  
 But that's just IMO, and I've still yet to reach the summit of TOTL tubes with the Elise.
 OTOH, @connieflyer do you still have your Ember so you can do a little head-to-head - just to humor us anyway?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Well, having just sold my Ember off earlier this week, the sooner the better for any comparison before memory gets any hazier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's really helpful, especially as we usually hear things the same, even with different musical tastes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Yes, indeed, let's hope connieflyer still has his Ember!!
  
 Incidently, those Russian tubes you mentioned a few posts back I'm told can be very good. A friend has an amp which uses one and he loves the sound. I've also read positive things about them on the Crack forums. There are two versions, one the 6N5S, which has the same gain as the usual 6AS7 tubes, and a 6N13S which has a slightly higher gain, but when adjusted for volume both sound similar.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## DecentLevi

I haven't owned 6AS7 or 6N13S, but I think you also have quite enough 6J5 tubes to make the Elise really sing with 4 in the back (you just need one more dual adapter Howie). 
 Actually don't be so sure we have a different taste in music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since getting the Elise I'm starting to like not only electronic and retro, but also more analogue / percussive music like classic rock, soft rock, and pop too. As this thread's members seem to agree, the sign of a good amp is it's ability to get you to appreciate music you wouldn't normally listen to... I find myself being lulled into genres that were unspeakable for me to listen in the past, just simply for the sonic attributes / recording quality / aural scene and eventually start coming around to the vibe too. It's a transportation device of sorts... Now where is @UntilThen to help out with the above....?
  
 EDIT: Oh yeah I have the GE 6AS7GA but it's so outdone by quad tubes I strain to even recall having it around


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> I haven't owned 6AS7 or 6N13S, but I think you also have quite enough 6J5 tubes to make the Elise really sing with 4 in the back (you just need one more dual adapter Howie).
> Actually don't be so sure we have a different taste in music
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm getting very tempted and, who knows, maybe I will enjoy electronic with Elise!


----------



## UntilThen

Been out the whole day. So just sitting here enjoying music via T1 with Elise and six EL3Ns and just reading everyone's impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 First impressions are priceless. There's no ******** there. People will speak from their hearts. It's not choreograph. They will say it in their own words, in their own style. It's very interesting. I get what they are saying. Elise does sound incredibly enjoyable. You WILL love your music collections again.
  
 With regards to tubes. My best advice is to start from stock tubes and then to try out the tubes I list in post 9291. That's not exhaustive but does covers a lot of combinations and they all sound good. I realize there will be preference and not everyone will pick the same tube combinations as their choice tubes but that's ok. Ultimately most combos sounds good but there will be some that will appeal more.
  
 6N13S has a warm tone and good textured bass. Full dose of it. However high notes clarity are lacking compared to better power tubes. RCA 6AS7G or GE 6AS7G (both of which I have) fair no better. The Chatham 6AS7G sounds different though. It has the clarity, details and airiness not found in the other 6AS7G or 6N13S.
  
 Mullard 6080 ( generally most 6080) have a leaner, tighter tone than 6AS7G. 
  
 TS 5998 is a step up on all the other power tubes. It's energized and sparkles. Bass is impactful and extends low. Midrange has a sweet clarity that lets vocals shines. Excellent extension to the high notes too.
  
 TS 7236 is supposed to be similar to 5998 but sounds leaner, tighter and more precise and impactful bass but does not extends as low as 5998.
  
 Knowing these power tubes tones is useful as it helps you to pair with drivers to suit your taste. 
  
 Then there's the quad power tubes which further extends soundstage and instruments separation. More layers, more molecules, more vapors to your music.
  
 I suggest that you get Elise first, then set out to discover the joys of tube rolling yourself. It's addictive and very enjoyable.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Been out the whole day. So just sitting here enjoying music via T1 with Elise and six EL3Ns and just reading everyone's impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.
 Are there problems with microphonics/humming with any of these tubes in Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Thanks.
> Are there problems with microphonics/humming with any of these tubes in Elise?


 

 I have not had any problems with any of my tubes. No microphonics, no humming and no distortions. Not one single combo. Pretty unreal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Fotons were humming loudly on my DV336se but is totally silent on Elise. Incredible.


----------



## DecentLevi

Coming from the Ember, I was scared the Elise would be louder, but fortunately, it's been a real buzz killer, or as they say, HumPhrey 
 (LOL it's almost 4am)


----------



## UntilThen

@connieflyer got off to a good start using his existing Ken Rad. Sylvania and RCA 6SN7s with a pair of economical Thompson CSF 6080. Those Thompsons will sound leaner, brighter and snappier. With his HD800 original, that will  sound just a shade on the bright side of neutral. It will have clarity and details galore.
  
 When he replace the Thompson with Svetlana 6N13S, he will lose some high end extensions but will gain lushness and warm and a fuller bass.This change might be better with HD800 original.
  
 Or EL3N with Thompson CSF 6080 ... would be ideal for HD800. CF, you can tell me what you think after you have experimented with those.


----------



## connieflyer

Have SiemensC3Gs in now and this sounds better yet. Only humming I am hearing is my own!


----------



## connieflyer

Howie in all my tube rolling, and I did alot on the ember, only had two microphonic tubes, one was bad, and the other only could hear the distortion when no music playing.  So far with the Elise, no problems except, the constant changing of music genre's to see what else I have been missing.  The difference between this and ember is considerable.  New detail keeps popping into tracks that I am very familiar with on the Ember and had never heard them before.  The total experience is enlightening, as you get further into the music you have and the amount of detail you have been missing becomes clear.  The build quality on the amp is outstanding.  Just the fit and finish is near perfect as one can expect.  I emailed Lukasz about it, even the simple orientation of the of the tube sockets, all the locator pins face front and center.  They are not just added in they are carefully placed, you would not see this detail after tubes are in place, but you know by looking at them that some one made sure that things were as good as they are able to produce. Even had the current price, I firmly believe that it is a bargain.  As far as tubes go, start out slow, and enjoy the ride.  Just using the original tubes will bring you much more enjoyment than any and all tube combo's in the Ember.  I am still using the 6080 power tubes for now, going to work my way through the drivers first, and then try different powers.  Until Then posted a great list of tube combos to try, which I copied for continued use, so I bought alot of the adapters and tubes while waiting for the Elise.  At my age waiting can be fatal, so I was getting impatient, but glad I waited. You always wonder what something will be like, is it all hype, buyer's remorse trying to pretend they like something so they can sell it later, or make people think they did a good thing.  Here again, at my age, I don't have to exaggerate, don't have to cover my butt, nor worry about selling if I made a mistake.  Can't take it with me, (although it will fit in a Casket, just need a long extension cord that is fire rated).  I hope you get to experience this amp and company, they are an outstanding group of craftsmen.  Hope this helps a little, and now back to the music.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Howie in all my tube rolling, and I did alot on the ember, only had two microphonic tubes, one was bad, and the other only could hear the distortion when no music playing.  So far with the Elise, no problems except, the constant changing of music genre's to see what else I have been missing.  The difference between this and ember is considerable.  New detail keeps popping into tracks that I am very familiar with on the Ember and had never heard them before.  The total experience is enlightening, as you get further into the music you have and the amount of detail you have been missing becomes clear.  The build quality on the amp is outstanding.  Just the fit and finish is near perfect as one can expect.  I emailed Lukasz about it, even the simple orientation of the of the tube sockets, all the locator pins face front and center.  They are not just added in they are carefully placed, you would not see this detail after tubes are in place, but you know by looking at them that some one made sure that things were as good as they are able to produce. Even had the current price, I firmly believe that it is a bargain.  As far as tubes go, start out slow, and enjoy the ride.  Just using the original tubes will bring you much more enjoyment than any and all tube combo's in the Ember.  I am still using the 6080 power tubes for now, going to work my way through the drivers first, and then try different powers.  Until Then posted a great list of tube combos to try, which I copied for continued use, so I bought alot of the adapters and tubes while waiting for the Elise.  At my age waiting can be fatal, so I was getting impatient, but glad I waited. You always wonder what something will be like, is it all hype, buyer's remorse trying to pretend they like something so they can sell it later, or make people think they did a good thing.  Here again, at my age, I don't have to exaggerate, don't have to cover my butt, nor worry about selling if I made a mistake.  Can't take it with me, (although it will fit in a Casket, just need a long extension cord that is fire rated).  I hope you get to experience this amp and company, they are an outstanding group of craftsmen.  Hope this helps a little, and now back to the music.


 
 Thanks,Don.
 I appreciate your help. If that's how you feel with the amp just arrived it can only get even better.
 Once I have paid off this month's credit card bill I will negotiate with the wife and hopefully purchase in a couple of weeks time. 
 Enjoy listening.


----------



## connieflyer

If you decide to get one work with Lukasz as I only put half down and the rest was billed when he shipped it, that way it spreeeeaaaaddddsss out the money pain a little.  I am sure you will not be disappointed.  Don


----------



## HOWIE13

I've just emailed him


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> Coming from the Ember, I was scared the Elise would be louder, but fortunately, it's been a real buzz killer, or as they say, HumPhrey
> (LOL it's almost 4am)


 
 This is the fate of all amps after Elise arrives. Only Elise makes it out alive and it will be waiting for you when you wake up ))


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> I've just emailed him


 
  
 Good choice H13...I'm sure you won't be disappointed!....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. By the way, connieflyer's KenRad drivers and Thomson 6080 powers don't come as stock - they're TungSol 6SN7 (re-issue) drivers and Russian 6N13S powers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...hopefully you'll find time to digest our favourite choices at leisure before deciding on what might suit you more...take it slow and gentle, to avoid overload, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Good choice H13...I'm sure you won't be disappointed!....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the advice-I must say everybody is very helpful and friendly on this thread. I will order those Thomson's anyway as I like a clearer sound to dissect out all the musical strands in complex Classical stuff.
 Reading this thread I feel like I am already listening to Elise


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Thanks for the advice-I must say everybody is very helpful and friendly on this thread. I will order those Thomson's anyway as I like a clearer sound to dissect out all the musical strands in complex Classical stuff.
> Reading this thread I feel like I am already listening to Elise


 
  
 "Complex Classical"?...you're in for a real treat - Elise's ability to resolve fine detail, along with wide-ranging dynamics are just the ticket, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...not to mention pin-point imaging; instrument separation; rich tonal extension; 'emotional involvement'; fine PRaT...etc. etc...all of which continue to scale along with any and all upgrades made across the entire system!


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> "Complex Classical"?...you're in for a real treat - Elise's ability to resolve fine detail, along with wide-ranging dynamics are just the ticket, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just what I'm waiting for- you describe my needs perfectly!


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Just what I'm waiting for- you describe my needs perfectly!


 
  
 Glad for that...and for _*you*_ H13...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 CJ


----------



## hypnos1

And now for something a bit different in the music line- some Irish folk music! This particular track is one I use especially for 'emotional' assessment, along with several others on their 'collection' album "The Furey's Finest". Even though over 20 years old, the recording quality is surprisingly good and perfect for judging the "being in the same room" aspect...along with others!...
  

  
 ps.  Be warned...this is a bit of a sad song, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Howie in all my tube rolling, and I did alot on the ember, only had two microphonic tubes, one was bad, and the other only could hear the distortion when no music playing.  So far with the Elise, no problems except, the constant changing of music genre's to see what else I have been missing.  The difference between this and ember is considerable.  New detail keeps popping into tracks that I am very familiar with on the Ember and had never heard them before.  The total experience is enlightening, as you get further into the music you have and the amount of detail you have been missing becomes clear.  The build quality on the amp is outstanding.  Just the fit and finish is near perfect as one can expect.  I emailed Lukasz about it, even the simple orientation of the of the tube sockets, all the locator pins face front and center.  They are not just added in they are carefully placed, you would not see this detail after tubes are in place, but you know by looking at them that some one made sure that things were as good as they are able to produce. Even had the current price, I firmly believe that it is a bargain.  As far as tubes go, start out slow, and enjoy the ride.  Just using the original tubes will bring you much more enjoyment than any and all tube combo's in the Ember.  I am still using the 6080 power tubes for now, going to work my way through the drivers first, and then try different powers.  Until Then posted a great list of tube combos to try, which I copied for continued use, so I bought alot of the adapters and tubes while waiting for the Elise.  At my age waiting can be fatal, so I was getting impatient, but glad I waited. You always wonder what something will be like, is it all hype, buyer's remorse trying to pretend they like something so they can sell it later, or make people think they did a good thing.  Here again, at my age, I don't have to exaggerate, don't have to cover my butt, nor worry about selling if I made a mistake.  Can't take it with me, (although it will fit in a Casket, just need a long extension cord that is fire rated).  I hope you get to experience this amp and company, they are an outstanding group of craftsmen.  Hope this helps a little, and now back to the music.


 

 Holy Toledo, you say it better than I do.


----------



## connieflyer

Old age and experience, mellowed by a good scotch on occasion!


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I've just emailed him


 

 I echo what H1 says. You won't regret it. Problem is, the Expressivo will be relegated to the hut in the garden. 
  
 You'll be the first to give a review of the 2.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And now for something a bit different in the music line- some Irish folk music! This particular track is one I use especially for 'emotional' assessment, along with several others on their 'collection' album "The Furey's Finest". Even though over 20 years old, the recording quality is surprisingly good and perfect for judging the "being in the same room" aspect...along with others!...


 
 How about the Green green grass of home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Getting nostalgic.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I echo what H1 says. You won't regret it. Problem is, the Expressivo will be relegated to the hut in the garden.
> 
> You'll be the first to give a review of the 2.


 
 Thanks for reminding me. I haven't forgotten about Expressivo, It's definitely living up to it's name. It's the best sounding headphone amp I've owned so far and I'm rolling all my old 6DJ8's that have been lying in cupboards all over the house since I discovered Octals.
 My K701 broke two weeks ago and I've replaced it with a 702 as the 701 was often a bit grainy in the treble-though when it was good it was very good. I prefer the more neutral 702 and it perfectly complements Expressivo.
 We are lucky enough to have a holiday bolt hole and it will be perfect for there- assuming Elise sounds better, of course.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> And now for something a bit different in the music line- some Irish folk music! This particular track is one I use especially for 'emotional' assessment, along with several others on their 'collection' album "The Furey's Finest". Even though over 20 years old, the recording quality is surprisingly good and perfect for judging the "being in the same room" aspect...along with others!...
> 
> ps.  Be warned...this is a bit of a sad song, lol!


 
 Sad to ecstasy - it's all part of the human experience - brought to us courtesy of Elise. Beautiful song.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> How about the Green green grass of home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Seems like that kind of day.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Seems like that kind of day.


 
  
 Yo, pct.....and "acoustic rules OK?"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Thanks for reminding me. I haven't forgotten about Expressivo, It's definitely living up to it's name. It's the best sounding headphone amp I've owned so far and I'm rolling all my old 6DJ8's that have been lying in cupboards all over the house since I discovered Octals.
> My K701 broke two weeks ago and I've replaced it with a 702 as the 701 was often a bit grainy in the treble-though when it was good it was very good. I prefer the more neutral 702 and it perfectly complements Expressivo.
> We are lucky enough to have a holiday bolt hole and it will be perfect for there- *assuming Elise sounds better, of course.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Careful H13...you're bordering on heresy here, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> We are lucky enough to have a holiday bolt hole and it will be perfect for there- assuming Elise sounds better, of course.


 
 Elise has to sound better or Lukasz has to spell his name backwards. zsakul ?


----------



## HOWIE13

I thought that wouldn't be too popular on this thread! LOL
 .
 Poor Expressivio, she seems largely forgotten. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Seriously though, the 6DJ8 tubes don't have the same euphony to my ears, at least, as 6SN7's, 6AS7's and suchlike so I'm sure Elise will sound a good deal better.
 Having said that 6DJ8's can still sound very good, especially with some atonal modern Classical music, much of which is not meant to sound euphonic.
 I think Expressivo gives 6DJ8's a very good chance to show how good they can sound.


----------



## supersonic395

Always cool to read the new owner impressions and how it evolves alongside the Elise itself as it burns in.

I cannot wait for mine to arrive


----------



## UntilThen

I cannot wait for my lazy susan to arrive.


----------



## UntilThen

Supersonic while waiting you can read up on the history of turntables and vacuum tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.gibson.com/news-lifestyle/features/en-us/turn!-turn!-turn!-a-history-of-turntables.aspx
  
 http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/history/vacuum-tube-thermionic-valve/history.php


----------



## connieflyer

Changed over from the 6080's to dual C3G 2 6bl7, 2 6SN7 and it was quite a difference.  Listening to this Neil Diamond and with the 6080 it had more Power? presence? the new combo doesn't get as loud or as forceful.  Have to let them cook abit more. Guitar had more presence on 6080.


----------



## UntilThen

Love that Neil Diamond's song. It's a time of discovery for yourself CF and yes you do need to burn all those tubes in.
  
 First impressions can also changed after extended listen. I knew I was mightily impressed by the c3g sonic brilliance but after several weeks I needed something more soothing for my ears.


----------



## TomNC

Same here on my amp. Dual 6BL7s yield lower gain than one 6as7g or 6080. Probably 3 or 4 6BL7s need to be placed in parallel. But the sound from 6BL7s have some unique characters: larger space between sound traces make the sound quite airy in the direction of a Stax phone system and the tone overall is quite calm and nostalgic.


----------



## connieflyer

Could be I should just shut my pie hole until everything burns in.  But just going on new tubes, comparing one to the other, seemed fair.  The 6bl7's 6sn7's do sound somewhat better with a pair of El3n's also new.  So time will tell.  I will probably put 6-8 hours on these tonite, next up I think will be 6 El3N's put time on those and then go back to the C3G's  These are Siemens C3G's don't know if that makes a difference.  All the 6bl7's and 6sn7's are Sylvania


----------



## connieflyer

One thing for sure the 6080's defineatly run warmer than the others.


----------



## connieflyer

Listening to Mickey Newbery and the pathos in his voice is coming through loud and clear....


----------



## mordy

My personal experience has been that you need at least four 6BL7 as power tubes to make a big difference. The 6BL7 tubes run pretty hot as well.


----------



## connieflyer

I see. That may be the problem, thanks for the info.  And just for that, if you like a good low note or two....


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm searching for some 6BL7 tubes - which would you guys recommend for the most full / vivid / sweet sound with good stage - GE, Philco, Sylvania or RCA?
  
 Also about the C3G - which tubes did you say paired well with these for electronic music @UntilThen? I'm still struggling to find a good deal on these too. Thanks and good day all


----------



## connieflyer

LIke what Hypnos1 said, resolution is unreal, still amazed at how much more music is actually present on recordings that I never heard before.  Sometimes unsettling, thinking did I just hear that or is old age starting to make music up as well, (other thoughts of course were young beautiful women chasing after me!).  Actually that does happen (women part) if you forget to load the grocerys in the car and leave them in the shopping cart!


----------



## connieflyer

I know it is early, but at my age, not willing to wait too long, am pretty quick on judgement calls,(married to the same woman for 46 years helped).  I have narrowed the field down to Thomson 6080 and C3G's and 6 El3N's. I think this will give me variety and spice for the long road (if I am lucky).  So I am going to put up the following for sale here if anyone is interested.
  
 ORDER DATE
 Mar 17, 2016
     
 ORDER TOTAL
 US $42.95
 + US $4.99
 shipping
 Order NOS NIB Matched Pair Sylvania USA 6BL7GTA 2 Black T Plate 3 MICA Vacuum Tubes
 View order details - ORDER DATE Mar 17, 2016

 1 item sold by vivatubescom
 NOS NIB Matched Pair Sylvania USA 6BL7GTA 2 Black T Plate 3 MICA Vacuum Tubes
 ( 121908742002 )
 Delivered on Tue, Mar 22
 1 item sold by xulingmrs
 1pc Dual Gold plated 6BL7 TO 6AS7 tube converter adapter

 ( 191792226144 )
 Quantity: 2
 Delivered on Thu, Mar 24
 ORDER TOTAL
 US $45.80
 + US $7.50
 shipping
 These were my cost and I was thinking about $60 to me by PayPal and I will ship to the US at my cost.


----------



## WB2016

So have a few minutes to post some impressions on the tubes and got some nice input regarding tubes from the real experts at the HighEnd in Munich, Tim and Co. 

C3G and C3Gs. There is some difference but minute, the S or white dot seem to be better "quality" which means mainly durability and consistency. Not recommended to take off the meatal sleeves, since that protects from EM, vibration and maintains better temp regulation. Also seems like the C3Gs need a really really long time to burn in properly (300h+) and reach proper temp. They are best used as potentiators in systems, e.g. emotionality, even harmonics. Tend to reveal issues in your system quickly, e.g. connectors not snug enough, cabling, noise in electricity/source, etc. Also seem to possibly generate their own strange em field??? Not sure on that comment but it was regarding interference with electrostatics and some headphones, we got hit by some customers, they have priority you can always talk shop later or next year. Lets see if I get any other input.

Regarding the EL3Ns I also did not know is that there are noticeable size differences. Matching is not really worth it for the money most agrreed on, but I was told that there are noticeable differences in size. Went home yesterday and checked. Yup, one my 6 is definitely shorter, about 1cm+ and also slimmer, label also printed on the other side and the glowing is noticeably dimmer. A shame I don't have good measurement equipment, but I did notice that with some soundtracks that have very fast repeating and varied low bass this is causing interference with one of my monitors around 100-80hz and really sloppy below 60hz. This could also be to the EL3Ns not being properly burnt in, now at ca. 30hrs, but something I want to take a look at when I have some time. 

I will try taking it out of the double adapter and play around with it. Anyone else notice anything like this? I was just glad to get them into those adapters without breaking them Not that easy and I was elated I did't break them, checking size was not something I cared about at that point. Wonder how the autobiasing of the Elise is affecting everything. If its better to have in the pair or as a single?

Will also change the fuse and try to find a better spot for the Elise, since it is too close to one of my monitors and this may be contributing to the recovery and bass pase issues. Still overall very, very pleased with the Elise that is starting to burrn in nicely. Got some compliments of checking all the important boxes of what one would want in an amp, so that is a BIG compliment. 

Alright back to shmoozing and listening, still one hour left for today.

Cheers
WB


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 I have both the C3gS and the regular C3g, all made by Siemens. There may be a very slight difference in how they sound - the S version is said to have higher minimum conductance, but if there is a difference, it is minimal.
  
 Cannot see the basis for added durability, since the S versions were pulled from the regular production line. The tube life is rated at 10,000 hours, which is plenty.
  
 The main thing to know about the C3g tubes is that they are VERY FRAGILE, and cannot be rolled (rocked back and forth) when pulling them out, like regular tubes. These tubes were made to amplify under water trans-oceanic telephone cables, and perhaps the glass envelope was tempered to withstand underwater pressures - bottom line is that the glass cracks very easily. The best way to insert them is to push straight down. To take them out, insert a small flat blade screwdriver between the tube and the socket, and gently pry around it, lifting it slowly out of the socket.
  
 Here is a link to more information about these great tubes:
  
 http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English-neu/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html
  
 Please note that there are C3g variants that run on 20V, so those tubes would not be suitable for the Elise without voltage regulators.
  
 When new, these tubes cost around $200 each. It is possible to find them relatively inexpensive on German eBay. Today's offerings are two used pairs from an Italian seller for around Euro38.- each incl shipping.
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-X-C3g-Pentodo-SIMENS-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/282004548176?hash=item41a8c7ea50:g:zjcAAOSwgQ9V6AHd
  
 (You can use Google translate if you wish)


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> *Could be I should just shut my pie hole until everything burns in.  *But just going on new tubes, comparing one to the other, seemed fair.  The 6bl7's 6sn7's do sound somewhat better with a pair of El3n's also new.  So time will tell.  I will probably put 6-8 hours on these tonite, next up I think will be 6 El3N's put time on those and then go back to the C3G's  These are Siemens C3G's don't know if that makes a difference.  All the 6bl7's and 6sn7's are Sylvania


 
  
 Fear not connie...we ALL (well, _*most *_anyway!) like to give early impressions even though we know we should really wait, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...this is, I believe, due to the "Elise factor" - ie. unadulterated excitement!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Not only that, but it gives newcomers a good idea of what to expect in the early days of listening, so is actually _*very*_ useful....puts minds at ease somewhat...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  


connieflyer said:


> LIke what Hypnos1 said, resolution is unreal, still amazed at how much more music is actually present on recordings that I never heard before.  Sometimes unsettling, thinking did I just hear that or is old age starting to make music up as well, (other thoughts of course were young beautiful women chasing after me!).  Actually that does happen (women part) if you forget to load the grocerys in the car and leave them in the shopping cart!


 
  
 Resolution "unreal", "unsettling"? TOTALLY AGREE - _*startling*_ even, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


connieflyer said:


> I know it is early, but at my age, not willing to wait too long, am pretty quick on judgement calls,(married to the same woman for 46 years helped).  I have narrowed the field down to Thomson 6080 and C3G's and 6 El3N's. I think this will give me variety and spice for the long road (if I am lucky).


 
  
 That's not a bad choice at all connie - especially for such a snap decision LOL!...now all you have to do is sell up everything else (including the dog/cat/parrot/mother-in-law) and go get a nice pair of GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834...and you will have all your heart could desire! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


wb2016 said:


> So have a few minutes to post some impressions on the tubes and got some nice input regarding tubes from the real experts at the HighEnd in Munich, Tim and Co.
> 
> C3G and C3Gs. There is some difference but minute, the S or white dot seem to be better "quality" which means mainly durability and consistency. Not recommended to take off the meatal sleeves, since that protects from EM, vibration and maintains better temp regulation. Also seems like the C3Gs need a really really long time to burn in properly (300h+) and reach proper temp. They are best used as potentiators in systems, e.g. emotionality, even harmonics. Tend to reveal issues in your system quickly, e.g. connectors not snug enough, cabling, noise in electricity/source, etc. Also seem to possibly generate their own strange em field??? Not sure on that comment but it was regarding interference with electrostatics and some headphones, we got hit by some customers, they have priority you can always talk shop later or next year. Lets see if I get any other input.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB...must admit I never encountered any problems whatsoever releasing my (many!) C3gs from their prison in the last 2 years of LittleDot and Elise homes, but can understand they just might benefit from the covers in certain less-than-ideal environments...difficult call, lol!...(I've a feeling the full benefits of the cover's screening would strictly require the base's grounding tab to be connected...perhaps....). And I personally found the 'S' version to be slightly better overall, but not worth too much of a price premium...
  
 As for the EL3N's bass, I must admit to being somewhat mystified by your finding - after LONG burn-in especially, bass through my T1s is every bit as tight, controlled and deep as the mighty ECC31 and FDD20 (helped a little no doubt by my GEC powers). I can only hope you manage to trace the cause of the anomaly within your own system, lol! - something is definitely amiss somewhere methinks...GOOD LUCK!!.
  
 ps. Glad you're able to tick all those boxes!..


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks Mordy,

Done for today at the High End, before we go to dinner I have some time.

good read. Didn't know they were originally so expensive. Yeah I was aware of the ease of damaging them, but heard that some people had removed the metal casing. When I mentioned that yesterday people looked at me as if someone suggested pouring ferrite dust all over an amp to reduce magnetic interference... Most suggested additional EM damping and ensuring everything above in the chain is spot on. It will greatly amplify emotion and positive (actually more "negative" emotions, e.g. saddness, pain, blues, desperation and emotional intensity , etc.) musical elements but also any teeny bit of garbage both in input and show the weaknesses clearly. Big issues I heard (regarding c3m which is very similar to c3g) is tiny spacing between cables and adapters and static build-up.

What for me was interesting that Tim P and others know and very much like the EL series, they are also familiar with the C3G which is a rare and mysterious beast. Generally not used in commercial amps because getting stock or trying to match them proves to be very difficult especially in balanced amps getting them right is really, really tricky. There is also the danger of the clients tube rolling and messing up everything the tube designers had so perfectly blended until then Generally not what you want in a commercial product and a lot of that you can do with 2A3s, 845s or 300s in the right combinations, with less risk of issues. Also they also have the downside of not glowing. For high end presentation is important and the c3gs are very ruggedly industrial. Well if you design something for thousands of meters below the ocean surface looks are probably not very high on the prio list.

What interested me most about the tube was how the experts would use it. I have the Siemens C3G regular NOS from tubedepot and am going to play around with them some more. I was intrigued by the concept of this being a potentiator almost a type of catalyst if used properly and blended with other tubes and the right equipment. 

We having Elises should have equipment that would be good to play around with the C3Gs. SE, low noise, autobiasing, readily made adapters, etc.

Has anyone done a dual setup with EL3Ns as powers with C3Gs, meaning 2x (C3G+EL3Ns on one adapter) for the powers? From what I gather a 2x(2xEl3N with 1xC3G) might give you all that you'll need for a preamp. I did ask if that tube combo might be something for a preamp and got the answer it would be interesting and might check it out. Now you would need to combine that with a smooth output tube though when using it as hp amp, also not sure if you would still get issues with hE560s and other Hifiman gear. 

Thanks for the link, speak German, so no need for Google translate unless I want a good laugh, Google translate and long complex German sentences is often truely hilariously misleading. 

Oh, damn time, gotta run. 

Take Care,
WB


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Fear not connie...we ALL (well, _*most *_anyway!) like to give early impressions even though we know we should really wait, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yup love the bass on the EL3Ns and they are known for that so was a bit perplexed. Only occured on some tracks so will run a diagnostic with the suspect tube in various positions and checking the regular culprits when I have time. 

Gotta go.
WB


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 Thanks for your comments.
  
 My link to eBay was in Italian and mainly intended for DL who wanted to know where to find the C3g tubes. Based on my experience, almost any rare tube will show up on eBay, sooner or later - even at a good price. You just have to be patient, and check daily.
  
 Ordered more EL3N adapters, and I should be able to run the combination of EL3N as drivers + C3g/EL3N as power tubes in the near future. Suck a combination doesn't even need any external power.
  
 From what I remember reading and trying out myself, the C3g seems much better as a driver than as a power tube, but who knows - my 8 cyl Elise should be able to accommodate 6 x EL3N + a pair of C3g, either as drivers or as power tubes!
  
 For your clients that need a good visual glow display, may I suggest the Shuguang 6N5PJ tube.....lol.


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


We dealt with Icon Audio on Tuesday they have the Shuguang 6N5PJ tubes, dirt cheap, 17GBP, I doubt they are usable for the Elise or any HP amp. They are used as a 2A3 substitute, No?? So likely not.

Talking about light and heat. We will be trying out a Icon Audio MB81, with GU81 tubes, now I feel like I need sunscreen with those suckers
http://www.iconaudio.com/main-products/mb81-mono-blocks/

You cannot tell the client that these are only around 80€ a tube, else they have "I-Needa-Spenda-More-Syndrome". Luckily the look appeals to the Russian client and overall the MB81 is not exactly cheap Some serious serious tube power, but I have some doubts about it. We'll see next week when we install everything else and it has burned in about 100hrs. Not sure if the brute force will translate into good audio in this case, but they are cool looking tubes and something different, which is important. But if you want tube sound and a lot of power the options are somewhat limited. Also Icon Audio does make good kit, no doubt about it. 

Well if you do get around to playing with the C3G and EL3N adapters let me know, I really appreciate the Elise as a preamp so far. The comment has been that you'd need to spend close to 2K to get more out of a SE preamp than the Elise!!!, and I especially like the C3Gs for movies so far, as weird as it sounds they convey the emotions of film better. Nina Simone with C3Gs just gives it that little bit of something extra that is so extraordinary. 

Now I am getting weird, maybe its having heard 100K+++ systems at the Munich High End all this time, they all have flavor and are close to perfection but often lack the something like rawness and emotionality. I am getting to the point that there are tubes that have good sound characteristics but there are also tubes that have emotionality and intensity amplification where ignoring the parameters will get you someplace else. Right now, probably also due to massive listening fatique I long for something different, true excitement.

So let me know if be adapting the EL3Ns and C3Gs into one might do the trick or if its just a mad obsession due to highend overload

Thanks in advance.

Oh, yeah Italy has some of the absolute best and weirdest high fi people, they are on a different planet but also bring some gems to the table in recording, equipment and also things for sale on Ebay.

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

wb2016 said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Fear not connie...we ALL (well, _*most *_anyway!) like to give early impressions even though we know we should really wait, lol!
> ...



 


So the search begins for the culprit of the crazy bass response. One possible solution is already on the horizon, testing the test CD. Someone, maybe even me, put some huge fingerprints on the Soundtracks test CD. Hopefully that will solve some things, and I will check the other configurations of the EL3Ns. 

Regarding the C3gs without covers, I am sure they are fine and they look nice, I just recommend never mention you do that when talking to tube amp builders But then those are some weird guys get carried away on minutae that makes other engineers roll their eyes.

Cheers WB


----------



## connieflyer

Speaking of the El3N's size difference, the first two I bought were from thetubecenter on Ebay, before I found out about Audio Dimension. The first two, the box was stamped on top EL3N and the four I got from Audio Dimension were stamped on the top EL3N Made in Holland. I ordered two more from AD to make all the same.  The first pair are in the driver position and the other four are powers.  I have not found any problem with these other than the small difference in size.  After I get the other two from AD will put them in and see if I hear any difference. First two boxes were a little faded in color, other four were more vibrant. Identical packaging inside with tube rolled in paper and corregated cardboard.  As far as the printing on the tubes on my six they are all in slightly different positions.  Would like to meet the guy that designed the tube pins, (well maybe years ago!) Got all six in, but wondered if I would break any!  Luck was with me for a change.


----------



## UntilThen

Haha CF you managed to insert the EL3Ns into the adapters without smashing them.
  
  
@WB2016 If you do get the connectors loose, you can pry the contacts up using a small flat screw driver. This is done with both the single and dual EL3N adapters. Just push the screw driver downwards gently in a fulcrum motion and the middle part of the connector will pop out and you'll get a tight fit with the EL3N tubes again. Remember if you get distortion / noises from your EL3N, it can be the tubes paddle feet not contacting well with the contacts. 
  
 I've shown this before but here's the photo again.

  
 6 x EL3N needs burn in for the sound to settle. The initial tone isn't quite right but once burn in, it will sound splendid.
  
 I'm not sure how you will get C3G and EL3N into one adapter. There is a dual C3G adapter but I'm done with more tube rolling. 
  
 ps.... HE560 works well with 6xEL3Ns. No issues there.


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Speaking of the El3N's size difference, the first two I bought were from thetubecenter on Ebay, before I found out about Audio Dimension. The first two, the box was stamped on top EL3N and the four I got from Audio Dimension were stamped on the top EL3N Made in Holland. I ordered two more from AD to make all the same.  The first pair are in the driver position and the other four are powers.  I have not found any problem with these other than the small difference in size.  After I get the other two from AD will put them in and see if I hear any difference. First two boxes were a little faded in color, other four were more vibrant. Identical packaging inside with tube rolled in paper and corregated cardboard.  As far as the printing on the tubes on my six they are all in slightly different positions.  Would like to meet the guy that designed the tube pins, (well maybe years ago!) Got all six in, but wondered if I would break any!  Luck was with me for a change.



 


Yeah I too was suprised at how much of a biatch it was getting them in. I assumed that there was some trick or that I just did not align them properly. Handling audio equipment I have the utmost respect and care, so to go to the point of getting the EL3Ns into their adpaters take some hifi courage. Curage and highfi as well as brute strength seldom go well together, but there are many notable exceptions, just usaully not with glass objects.

.Regarding talking to the guy who made the pins and giving him a piece of your mind might not be so wise since those tubes were disigned in the 40s. Really wouldn'T want him coming over and giving you a piece of his mind. Would make for a great hifi horror movie though.

Yeah I was just surprised about the size when I was told and checked the day after. I did not notice it at first. All the boxes looked exactly identical so no fault of AD at all. Just reminded me of what Tim Paravicini said about the EL series being great, if there is a dud, just toss it its not like buying 300Bs, they are consistent, superb, economical and last forever. I might end up buying another pair from AD and seeing if changing any of the EL3Ns out will change anything. Now if they weren't such an absolute biatch to change. 

Just warming them up the EL3Ns now and will run some tests tonight see if the distance, CD cleanliness or the EL3N postions as well as cabling will affect anything. They are also quite new at 30hrs and will go through some potential fluctuations in the first 50hrs. 

Strangely all of my 5 EL3Ns are exactly the same, just one is different so that is what struck me. There really should not be much more variance between these groups than within the groups but will check it out tonight and if necessary by ordering some more EL3Ns. This will likely not be an issue anyway since we are running everything SE, matching should have far less effect. 

The condition of the AD EL3Ns is excellent real NOS, so might buy another 6 just to have spares and if there is ever a Elise Balanced, but after hearing some of the best systems at the High End being SE I'm not sure I would not spend the money on balanced anytime soon. 

Cheers Wb

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Haha CF you managed to insert the EL3Ns into the adapters without smashing them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the input UT, did a bit of pushing in the adapter metal to loosen it which helped a lot. Will check all the pins again, but all this is completely in the relm of normal troubleshooting finding the culprit (s). Do and have done this so many times, but as with the Zen of Motorcycle Repair you just have to check every possible combination until you solve the issue. Just comes at a time where my personal audio is taking second row to other audio needs, especially time wise.

Yeah the EL3Ns need more than 300hrs to burn in, mastering and recording with the EL series is usually not done under 500-750hrs, if it can be avoided but that probably has to do with consistency more than burn in. 

Yeah getting those two EL3N and C3G into one adapter will require a bit of ingenuity or asking nicely here or in China. If someone is handy it would be an interesting combo, especially as a preamp/power then combined with some good outputs I can see that as getting the best of two wolds together if it works...

EL3Ns and C3Gs were the combo I thought was tough on the HE560, no?? 

HE560 works well with 6xEL3Ns as many including you have stated if I remember correctly. 
Finally on Saturday I will have a few hours to do some HP auditioning at the High End but unfortunately it will also be the busiest day, so lets see how it goes. Would have loved to hear the difference between the T1,1 and t1,2 but not sure if that will be possilbe either. HD800 and Hd800s are there though. 

Alright tubes are warm time for some tests.

Take Care
WB


----------



## UntilThen

Using 2xC3G as drivers and 4xEL3N as power tubes cause distortion not just on HE560 but HD650 and T1 as well. So I gave up on the combo. My conclusion is that quad EL3Ns as power tubes are best used with 2xEL3Ns as drivers. Even using 6N7G and quad EL3Ns didn't work very well. Lower gain (volume).
  
 Yes indeed to my delight, 6xEL3N works well with HE560.
  
 You're in a unique position to sample high end audio and to think that is work.  Enjoy @WB2016.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Using 2xC3G as drivers and 4xEL3N as power tubes cause distortion not just on HE560 but HD650 and T1 as well. So I gave up on the combo. My conclusion is that quad EL3Ns as power tubes are best used with 2xEL3Ns as drivers. Even using 6N7G and quad EL3Ns didn't work very well. Lower gain (volume).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Intresting I thought the problem was with hifiman hps only. Thanks for the update. Have a few experiments planned so we'll see on the combining the two without the horrid monster of distortion ruining the honeymoon. For me it would be interesting if you can get the effect of the C3Gs in the powers while keeping the balance of powers and output EL3Ns. Maybe Mordy can help or some good rolers. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys
  
 Mordy thanks for the C3G link.I went for those anyway.
  
@connieflyer - wow! So you tried the quad 6BL7 powers and now are selling them? Also you tried the 6 EL3N... you must only be the 2nd person ever to try this setup I believe - are you not impressed?
  
@HOWIE13 big congrats on getting the Elise! will this replace your FA Expressivo? If so, what were the downsides of the Expressivo? (just curious, but I'll bet it doesn't hold up to the Elise)


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Hello guys
> 
> Mordy thanks for the C3G link.I went for those anyway.
> 
> ...


 
 Many thanks!
 At present I'm patiently (not really
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) waiting for Lukasz to send me an invoice so I can pay for Elise. Every day seems like a year in Elise time.
 I would expect Elise to better Expressivo, just based on Elise's vast tube rolling possibilities.
 Expressivo is a fantastic sounding amp. Excellent value for the price. Still rolling the drivers, have reached a pair of Bugle Boys.


----------



## UntilThen

CF is in his man cave totally engrossed with Two Steps from Utopia.


----------



## connieflyer

decentlevi said:


> Hello guys
> 
> Mordy thanks for the C3G link.I went for those anyway.
> 
> ...


A little correction, I tried two 6bl7 and two 6sn7s not quad 6bl7. I like the six pac of El3n best so far


----------



## UntilThen

Six pack of Reds


----------



## connieflyer

Exactly!


----------



## pctazhp

When I bought the Elise I knew one reason for the enthusiastic support it receives on this thread is its seemingly infinite capacity for tube-rolling. That capacity is one more time shinning bright here as new blood has joined our little club.
  
 But I said at the time I really wasn’t very interested in tube rolling per se. Rather, I was willing to invest the time and expense of rolling for the sake of reaching an end game that would give me what I was seeking for long-term listening enjoyment.
  
 Along the way, I have gained significant respect for the concept of “burn-in”. I’m not really sure if it is burn-in of the amp, tubes, headphones, my ears or all of the above. But I do know that what I think was working at a given point in the past ceased to work, but more importantly what didn’t seem to work at one point suddenly down the road begin to shine in a very special way.
  
 What I may say today, certainly can change significantly in the future, but I know I’m going to be doing far, far less rolling of anything. I have a combination that feels to me it may be my “end-game” for some time to come.
  
 I have been through many of the most popular combinations. But simply stated, the tubes that I have now have had in my Elise consistently for the past several days, and that I feel no urge to change are EL3N/5998s. I make no claim that they are the best. Just that they seem to have laid claim to space in my Elise for the foreseeable future.
  
 So that brings me to headphones. In post #9494 I described in detail the differences I head between T1Gen2 and HD800S and expressed my preference for T1. I essentially restated that preference in post #9999. In many respects the observations in #9494 remain true for me. But my preference of the T1 has slowly shifted to HD800S, due I think to 3 factors.
  
 First, the one category where I gave the nod to HD800S was its expansive soundstage. I think at the time I underestimated how important that advantage is to me.
  
 Secondly, many of the areas where I gave the nod to T1 involved detail, specificity of location of vocals and instruments in the soundstage and natural reverberation. I still give the nod to T1 in those areas. But having said that, overall I think T1 can be described as having more “bite” than the S. It is that bite than can give the T1 such magic with many recordings. Yet, for long time listening I have become increasingly aware of a certain (albeit slight) fatigue factor that is not present for me with the S. @UntilThen has aptly described the S as more “relaxed”. That quality contributes to making the S good for a variety of recordings and genre over the long haul. 
  
 Before the T1 and S, I had good experience with my HD700, and had a little difficulty adjusting to T1 at first. Over time I became increasingly intolerant of the 700’s treble spike, but that is not present with the S. The S retains the “smooth” character I liked in the 700 without the fatiguing (for me) spike. 
  
 Finally, is burn-in. I haven’t read a lot of comment about burn-in time for Sennheiser headphones. But it seems either the S has changed significantly after prolonged use or my ears have adjusted. HD800S has become highly satisfying for almost anything I throw at it. As my ultimate goal has been what works for long-term casual listening as opposed to critical listening with a sharp focus on individual recordings, the S seems best suited for my particular wants.
  
 I have about a week left on my 30-day return right with the T1. At this point, it is my plan to return it and adopt the S as my exclusive headphones for the foreseeable future. This decision is not easy. I will sorely miss the T1 in many ways. But I’m just not a two-headphone man)) 
  
 It has taken a long time to achieve the magic I was seeking. Do I love the HD800S? No. Like any piece of audio gear it has its pluses and minuses. What I do love is the synergy I have achieved. The Elise has provided me the opportunity to achieve that synergy and in this respect I think it is truly unique. I hope it brings the rest of you they joy it has and continues to bring me.


----------



## Lord Raven

This was the hardest fix I have ever performed without breaking anything, and I have broken 1000$ tweeters LOL Thanks UT!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


>


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Pct. You cannot go wrong with either headphones but I'm more of a classic guy with both HD800 and T1. I prefer their original versions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 EL3N / 5998 is the combo I call the Benchmark and spend a page describing it. They sound great with my T1 classic. 
  
 I bought my TS 5998 brand new from a seller in Vietnam. It came in a plastic food container. It's truly burned in now. The shining chrome at the top has become a darker color. I have to use this pair of tubes sparingly.  Good ones are expensive and hard to find now.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


>





> This was the hardest fix I have ever performed without breaking anything, and I have broken 1000$ tweeters LOL Thanks UT!


 
  
 Glad you've master the art of renewing the adapters. 
  
 For anyone new to getting EL3N into the adapters the first time, here's how I do it easily. 
  
 Hold the EL3N tube near the base, with the top of the tube in the palm of your hand. With the other hand holding the adapter, align the tube's feet with the adapter's contact (make sure they are aligned) and push in firmly. It's not going to break. 
  
 My other hand isn't holding the adapter in the photo because I have to take the photo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It'll be a piece of cake after the 1st time.


----------



## connieflyer

For those of you younger folks, some oldies tonite....CCR Ramble Tamble, one minute 30 secs in guitar work starts out nice and slow, and builds up till you open another bottle of scotch or other nasty things....


----------



## RedBull

Hello guys, what's the waiting time for ordering Elise now?


----------



## connieflyer

Thought your name looked familiar, I used to be on the Ember forum as well, have mine up for sale. There is no comparison between the two amps, I was going to do a comparison once I got the Elise, but after listening for half an hour decided it wasn't worth it, Ember would lose everywhere.  If you email Lukasz, he will be very helpful and very responsive. He can be reached here....info@feliksaudio.pl   Typically about 6-8 weeks, it varies as they are a family owned and run business.  I received mine about a week or two ago, and I was very surprised at the detail and understated good looks.  The website pics do not do it justice.  Have been rolling in some different tubes, very versatile and the sound is very special. If you read through this thread, you won't find anyone complaining about the amp, it is a very good piece of equipment.  The company is easy to deal with and their attention to detail on these hand built amps is the best.  I sound like a broken wheel or a spoksman for them, but read back on this forum, and you will find the same thing with others.  Lots of help and advice here as well. Good luck, Don


----------



## RedBull

Yes, my name look familiar because I am following you from Ember to Elise, hahaha.
  
 I am currently very happy with Ember, but of course if there are better out there without having to rob the bank, I won't be shy to try.
  
 Your impression carries a lot of weight for me because we both have/had the same amp, so I can use that as base of comparison.
  
 I am watching movies a lot with headphone, namely hd800, hd650, k702, sa3000 and some others so few things a more important than listening to musics.
 Would you be so kind to compare Elise sound signature to Ember? cos it might be that one sound signature is so good for music but not so much for movies.
 Sound quality is subjective, i won't go into that.
  
 Btw, what DAC are guys using with Elise?


----------



## DecentLevi

@RedBull, the overall sound signature doesn't change from the Ember to the Elise. I'd say that along with the FR are the only two constants. The sound signature is entirely dependent on the tubes used, for each amp respectively. However the Elise having 4 tube sockets as opposed to 1 on the Ember, and of very wide compatibility, you can roll perhaps almost thousands of different possible tube combinations, especially if you consider it's uncanny ability to do superbly with mixing unmatched combinations of tubes at the same time. Another plus is that almost all of the tubes in an upgraded setup of the Ember are also compatible with the Elise, so you can save money that way.
  
 Where the real change comes is in the overall resolution / refinement across the spectrum in which the difference is almost a small miracle. Below are some helpful quotes from recent days that I thought would be relevant...
  
_(Oh and PS - I've personally found the king for movies to be an electrostat headphone system with the likes of the Ember or Elise as a tube-buffer. This sets you back at least a grand, but you get a soundstage and smoothness no dynamic headphones can touch)_
  
  Regarding the Ember Vs. Elise:


decentlevi said:


> Well, having just sold my Ember off earlier this week, the sooner the better for any comparison before memory gets any hazier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quote:


connieflyer said:


> Howie in all my tube rolling, and I did alot on the ember, only had two microphonic tubes, one was bad, and the other only could hear the distortion when no music playing.  So far with the Elise, no problems except, the constant changing of music genre's to see what else I have been missing.  The difference between this and ember is considerable.  New detail keeps popping into tracks that I am very familiar with on the Ember and had never heard them before.  The total experience is enlightening, as you get further into the music you have and the amount of detail you have been missing becomes clear.  The build quality on the amp is outstanding.  Just the fit and finish is near perfect as one can expect.  I emailed Lukasz about it, even the simple orientation of the of the tube sockets, all the locator pins face front and center.  They are not just added in they are carefully placed, you would not see this detail after tubes are in place, but you know by looking at them that some one made sure that things were as good as they are able to produce. Even had the current price, I firmly believe that it is a bargain.  As far as tubes go, start out slow, and enjoy the ride.  Just using the original tubes will bring you much more enjoyment than any and all tube combo's in the Ember.  I am still using the 6080 power tubes for now, going to work my way through the drivers first, and then try different powers.  Until Then posted a great list of tube combos to try, which I copied for continued use, so I bought alot of the adapters and tubes while waiting for the Elise.  At my age waiting can be fatal, so I was getting impatient, but glad I waited. You always wonder what something will be like, is it all hype, buyer's remorse trying to pretend they like something so they can sell it later, or make people think they did a good thing.  Here again, at my age, I don't have to exaggerate, don't have to cover my butt, nor worry about selling if I made a mistake.  Can't take it with me, (although it will fit in a Casket, just need a long extension cord that is fire rated).  I hope you get to experience this amp and company, they are an outstanding group of craftsmen.  Hope this helps a little, and now back to the music.


 


hypnos1 said:


> "Complex Classical"?...you're in for a real treat - Elise's ability to resolve fine detail, along with wide-ranging dynamics are just the ticket, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RedBull

Thanks for the summary DL.  Details, I love details in movies  
 (image missing)
 I understand you mentioned that FR is the same with Ember, just to confirm, does that means Elise is brighter than Ember?
  
 I know you also had Ember, so I can visualize your comparison too.
  
 99% I will order Elise, now, the wait time is going to kill me ...............


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh yes I also meant to include there are far greater details in the movies with electrostat headphones (which require their own specialized amp), along with bigger soundstage and smoothness and spot-on vocals. I'm using the budget (yet good sound) Koss ESP-950 headphones with upgraded Stax SRM1-MK2, currently connected to the Elise as a pre-amp / tube buffer for movies & TV shows. This is also my go-to rig for about half of what I listen to, which is experimental noise / ambiance / sound effects. For these sort of non-music soundscapes and otherwize excursions in audio, electrostat is, for me, the only way to go! OTOH, when it comes to music and anything that demands good dynamics, a dynamic can plugged into the Elise is amazing.
  
 When I said the FR is the same with both amps - as it generally is on all amps alike - what I'm referring to is the amp's ability to reproduce frequencies from the highest to the lowest, AKA 5hz - 30khz for example; which should be an inherent ability for all amps to do equally, as this is purely analogue amplification. So by no means is either the Ember or Elise brigher than the other; yet as mentioned that is entirely dependent on which tubes are used in each amp.
  
 I've been using the Gustard X12 DAC with the Elise and all my other amps for the past year, and it's a true killer so to speak. No shortcomings. But from trying and reading unwavering rave reviews about the Bifrosts such as Bimby (Bifrost Multibit) and the AK4490 version, I feel tempted to upgrade to this when I'm able. 
  
 PS- does anybody concur that the Bifrost pairs well with the Elise? And if so, which version?


----------



## RedBull

I use entry level Estat too, Stax 2170, but for me, there's more vocal detail with some of my dynamics than my 2170, vocal is slightly recess on those. 
 If i want to hear more vocals, i  have to dial up the volume which result in more treble than i like. 
 L700 sounds very nice tho, but never compared directly to my movies dynamic champion.
  
 Ideally, all amps should sound the same, but in the end, the ability of the amp react to certain loads are slightly different, for example, Ember have slightly more treble quantity than Vali, or Vali is warmer than Ember, more fuller and upfront vocals, this is unavoidable.  Understand this is tube dependent, just asking in general (from your feeling), if you don't mind.
  
 Yes, I heard a lot of good things about Gustard products.


----------



## RedBull

Anyone heard Valhalla 1/2, Crack, Darkvoice TH337 or LF337, Vali, WA2 care to share sound signature comparison?


----------



## pctazhp

redbull said:


> Anyone heard Valhalla 1/2, Crack, Darkvoice TH337 or LF337, Vali, WA2 care to share sound signature comparison?


 
 See post #8884 for a comparison with Valhalla 2.


----------



## RedBull

You mean this one?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8880#post_12445646
  
 No Valhalla


----------



## pctazhp

redbull said:


> You mean this one?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8880#post_12445646
> 
> No Valhalla


 
 Sorry. Wrong post. Just search this thread for Valhalla 2. I did a comparison with Elise. It's early morning here and I still need my coffee(((


----------



## connieflyer

Let's get that coffee flowing, things to be done, music to listen to!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Let's get that coffee flowing, things to be done, music to listen to!


 
 How can you be in such a good mood this early in the morning???


----------



## connieflyer

Because in Michigan I have been up longer!, One pot of coffee gone, second half way through, getting ready to do chores.  Gosh, I never thought that there was a good point to being in Michigan!


----------



## pctazhp

Oh yes. I forgot there was a world outside of Arizona ))) I really need to get that coffee brewing!!!!


----------



## connieflyer

First thing I do in the morning is get the brew started, it brews while "other" things get done!


----------



## connieflyer

Awhile back I was asked to do a comparison bet
  

  
 ween the Ember and the Elise so her goes..............Yep that should do it!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Awhile back I was asked to do a comparison bet
> 
> ween the Ember and the Elise so her goes..............Yep that should do it!


 
 I must have missed my coffee for too many mornings in a row and missed something. Where did you get the straight 4XEL3N adapter?


----------



## RedBull

Good morning !
  
 Found it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8790#post_12438273  it's a useful comparison. 
 Thanks @pctazhp.
 In case somebody else asking, it's post #8804


----------



## sneaky415

connieflyer said:


> Awhile back I was asked to do a comparison bet
> 
> 
> 
> ween the Ember and the Elise so her goes..............Yep that should do it!


 
  
 Well thats not really a fair comparison. You need to compare the Elise with this
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016 and UT,
  
 Mrs Xu Ling (or is it Ling Xu? - yeah, I think that is the name) makes a dual 6SN7 adapter with an octal base.
  
  




  
 This adapter is spaced wide enough that two EL3N individual bathtub style adapters will fit. One EL3N adapter and one loctal to octal adapter will fit as well.
  
 Here is proof:




  
 Here you have the C3gS/EL3N combination. I am waiting for more EL3N adapters to have a pair of these to use - already ordered. If your sense of aesthetics is ruffled by the look of this and the difference in height, you could always add a socket saver or two under the C3g tube lol. However, the EL3N has minimal tube glow, and the C3g none with the casing - can't do anything about that.....


----------



## mordy

Being impatient, I decided to try WB2016's recipe, at least partially. Don't have all the EL3N adapters in yet, but I can use EL3N and C3gS as power tubes - the drivers chosen are the Mazda 6N7G.
  




  
 4,15A of glorious current draw - no external power needed. First impression: Lower gain, but quiet - plenty of volume available, Headphones need 2 o'clock instead of 11.  The C3g "bite" is gone. Tight bass, good treble and sound stage, but....
  




  
 lacking in muscle and brawn. An elegant but somewhat light weight presentation. Two EL3N drivers may change that, but as said, waiting for adapters to try that.
  
  
 Let's do an engine transplant from 6 to 8 cylinders....
  
 Looking at the option sheet: BL, BX as options - let's go for the higher output BL.
  




  
 Pct - this is an 8 cylinder with 7.15L displacement and a supercharger (just kidding; 7.15A and external heating). Purring along very quietly - minimal hum at loudest levels.
  
 It is like the Elise got a vitamin infusion. More energetic, lively, and dynamic than the previous 6 cyl combination. And a Mullard like mid range.
  
 Too early to tell if this trumps the EL3N + BL.BX,6N7 combination......Need more time to evaluate.
  
 I think I just heard somebody scream: THOU  SHALT NOT MIX POWER TUBES!!!!! USA, Holland, Germany - I think we can get along....Oops - forgot to mention the French driver tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

redbull said:


> 99% I will order Elise, now, the wait time is going to kill me ...............


 
 Welcome to Elise thread, RedBull.
  
 That 1% should easily be filled by the jolly happy and adventurous crowd here. 
  
 No tube amps sound alike. They all have their own sonic signature. When describing Elise, I think of:-
  
 Fast transient response, articulate, clarity, details, lively and bite. Superb imaging and sound staging. Fast attack, lingering sustain and a timely decay. No part of the frequency response is emphasized. Treble, mid and bass are presented seamlessly. You're not listening to individual bands but a musical presentation. A natural, organic tone that draws you for a long night of music listening.
  
 In contrast, the DV 336se sounds more bass emphasized, less high end details and more sluggish. 
  
 In contrast, the Woo Audio Wa2 sounds more warm and lush and slower... yup slower and more relaxed.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Being impatient, I decided to try WB2016's recipe, at least partially. Don't have all the EL3N adapters in yet, but I can use EL3N and C3gS as power tubes - the drivers chosen are the Mazda 6N7G.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Brave man. I wasn't sure pentodes strapped triodes would be 'ok' in this combination. Let me try a few combos. I have quad C3Gs and multiple single EL3N adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

Both these 2 combinations produce loud hums.
  
 2xEL3N and 2xEL3N / 2xC3G
  
 2xEL3N and quad C3G
  
 So it's end of experiment for me.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I switched out the C3g/EL3N tubes as well - somehow I got distortion in one channel at loud volume, and there developed an imbalance in volume between channels.
  
 Back to EL3N as drivers and two each of BX,BL and 6N7 and all peacefully dynamic, or dynamically peaceful, whichever way....
  
 Waiting for more EL3N sockets to try your favorite recipe - 6 x EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Awhile back I was asked to do a comparison bet
> 
> 
> 
> ween the Ember and the Elise so her goes..............Yep that should do it!


 
  
 CF that's some comparison. I think the 6xEL3N will sound good with your HD800 original.


----------



## connieflyer

They sound great. Should be alot better once everything gets burned in


----------



## pctazhp

*By the time I get to Phoenix - Carol Welsman Live*
  

  
 Wait. I'm already in Phoenix 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well, I did take some poetic license 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glen Campbell didn't record a song called "By the Time I Get to Scottsdale"


----------



## connieflyer

Beautiful rendition, thanks for sharing. Another artist to pursue, get some of the best music suggestions here.


----------



## UntilThen

Beautiful songs. Here's mine.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Beautiful rendition, thanks for sharing. Another artist to pursue, get some of the best music suggestions here.


 
 Thanks CF. I agree this is a good source for discovering new music and artists. Most of my listening is with Tidal as a source. In fact, it was the discovery of Tidal HD that got me started last summer on this whole high end headphone thing. I also really like YouTube as a way of opening a lot of new music for me, even if the quality isn't always great.
  
 I finally figured out the EL3N adapters. The picture looked like it was a single adapter. I already have the two dual adapters from Mrs. X. I hadn't spent a lot of time trying 6XEL3N with the HD800S. Now that I've packed up the T1 and am getting ready to send it back I wanted to give 6XEL3N a good try with the S. Not sure yet, but I think I'll be switching the 5998s back into the power slots. Of course, just my personal preference.


----------



## connieflyer

Not having the 5998,s I have no reference there.  I am enjoying the 6 pack of EL3N's. As they burn in sound is very balanced. I am using the original Senn 800 not the newer S version, but am really impressed.  Of course coming from Ember, it is not surprising. I still like the C3g's with the 6080, but this 6 pk is getting alot  of attention from me.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Beautiful songs. Here's mine.


 
  
 Spellbinding !!!


----------



## connieflyer

untilthen said:


> Beautiful songs. Here's mine.
> 
> Great now I have another artist and not enough time to explore them all, but I am going to try. Thanks UT.


----------



## UntilThen

I don't about you but this seems to be the right version and I'm on EL3N with GE 6AS7GA. I'm in music listening mode. Any tubes will do on Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I don't about you but this seems to be the right version and I'm on EL3N with GE 6AS7GA. I'm in music listening mode. Any tubes will do on Elise.


 
 I still remember @hypnos1 saying that someday he might try light bulbs. He didn't say whether they would be incandescent, fluorescent or LEDs )))


----------



## connieflyer

Now that not only sounds great, the words are so true.  Sad ending to a great career.


----------



## nykobing

I only get noise with 6N7/6N7GT, everything else is dead silent, 6f8g, 6sn7, c3g, 6a6, el3n. Do you think it is possible I got a bad adapter? I bought the cheaper ones. It is a slight hum, I can't hear it until the end of a track. I must have tried 6 or 7 different 6n7/g/gt tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> I still remember @hypnos1 saying that someday he might try light bulbs. He didn't say whether they would be incandescent, fluorescent or LEDs )))


 

 He should use the incandescent, old school, hard to find now except for the crap from china, maybe some nos, nib GE!
 This is even further of track, but a memory for a moment, I remember when I was very young, going uptown to the the Detroit Edison store, with a bag of old burned out bulbs, and they would give her a new bulb of the same wattage for each one she brought back, the original recyclers!


----------



## connieflyer

UT Jane Monheit is on Amazon Prime, listening to her now, nice easy going voice, thanks for the heads up!


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> I only get noise with 6N7/6N7GT, everything else is dead silent, 6f8g, 6sn7, c3g, 6a6, el3n. Do you think it is possible I got a bad adapter? I bought the cheaper ones. It is a slight hum, I can't hear it until the end of a track. I must have tried 6 or 7 different 6n7/g/gt tubes.


 
 Possibly a bad adapter. I have both the black and gold adpaters and they work fine. However this is UT and he lives downunder where everything is hum free.


----------



## connieflyer

Humphrey who?


----------



## pctazhp

This is totally off topic, and thank goodness it doesn't happen on this thread. But if I read one more person on HeadFi saying "Holy Schiit" and thinking they are being so clever, I am going to throw my Bimby through my computer screen


----------



## nykobing

untilthen said:


> Possibly a bad adapter. I have both the black and gold adpaters and they work fine. However this is UT and he lives downunder where everything is hum free.


 
 I just tried a pair of ken rad 6c8g and they are quiet too, it must be a bad adapter, because those made noise in every thing I ever owned. They actually sound really really nice btw.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Humphrey who?


----------



## connieflyer

Bogey! Better yet Ingrid!


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> I just tried a pair of ken rad 6c8g and they are quiet too, it must be a bad adapter, because those made noise in every thing I ever owned. They actually sound really really nice btw.


 
 Well do tell us more about what you think of Elise. What headphones are you using and what's on your mind when you first listen with it. 
  
 What serial number did you have?


----------



## mordy

Hi nykobing,
  
 I have had a couple of adapters that were defective, and the sellers always replaced them. Suggest that you contact the seller - I am sure they will send you a replacement.
  
 Did you switch around the adapters to see if it is only one that is bad?
  
 Which tube or tube combinations do you use that result in hum?
  
 Used together in a  dual adapter with the 6BL7, I found that 6N7G and 6N7GT hummed, but not the 6N7. They are all from the same family of tubes and have the same current draw. I do not have any explanation why one hums and the other not - it is just trial and error.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> He should use the incandescent, old school, hard to find now except for the crap from china, maybe some nos, nib GE!
> This is even further of track, but a memory for a moment, I remember when I was very young, going uptown to the the Detroit Edison store, with a bag of old burned out bulbs, and they would give her a new bulb of the same wattage for each one she brought back, the original recyclers!


 
  
 Hey connie - and @pctazhp - careful now....with 'globes' like this about, I am    *very* sorely tempted, lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  

  
 Move over EL3N!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And greetings to you @RedBull...nice to see you're interested in joining the club. Re. your query about Elise's signature, I suppose the best meaningful pointer might be that - once burned in - she is pretty well 'neutral' (a rather vague term in actual fact IMHO!)...perhaps it might be better to say neither overtly bright, nor overtly dark/warm. In other words, what I personally regard as the perfect 'blank canvas' for painting just the kind of picture one prefers - aided brilliantly by its amazing versatility/flexibility in the range of non-stock configuration tubes that she can handle...
  
 Here's hoping you take the (no-risk!) plunge...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## hypnos1

A QUICK WORD IN YOUR EARS, GUYS....
  
 It would appear word is spreading fast about the merits of the EL3N driver/power - others are following our lead, so if you're interested at all in this tube I would recommend getting your supply in VERY soon, lol!!...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!
  
 CJ


----------



## UntilThen

You mean this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I always thought it look striking.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 YIKES, UT....that sure looks like overdose territory - but what a way to go, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(I think you must have snaffled half Peter's stock by now...wise fellow!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## RedBull

untilthen said:


> Welcome to Elise thread, RedBull.
> 
> That 1% should easily be filled by the jolly happy and adventurous crowd here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the description UT.  Can't wait to pull the trigger!!
  


hypnos1 said:


> And greetings to you @RedBull...nice to see you're interested in joining the club. Re. your query about Elise's signature, I suppose the best meaningful pointer might be that - once burned in - she is pretty well 'neutral' (a rather vague term in actual fact IMHO!)...perhaps it might be better to say neither overtly bright, nor overtly dark/warm. In other words, what I personally regard as the perfect 'blank canvas' for painting just the kind of picture one prefers - aided brilliantly by its amazing versatility/flexibility in the range of non-stock configuration tubes that she can handle...
> 
> Here's hoping you take the (no-risk!) plunge...
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are all great guys here, I am going to join the dark side, the force is STRONG!
  
 Let's DO IT!


----------



## connieflyer

You are correct RedBull, the force is VERY strong here!  Welcome to the club, you will not be disappointed.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Errrr.... UT: The back part of the amp is the transformer. No tubes required. Or do you know something the rest of us don't???


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Bogey! Better yet Ingrid!


 
 Ingrid. Oh my, what a beauty!!! A true "Elise" ))))


----------



## mordy

If Elise was Swedish, her name would be Lisa.
  
 Since we are digressing, what is paddle footed but does not waddle?


----------



## connieflyer

LIsa is a great name, why I remember a girl named Lisa............


----------



## UntilThen

I prefer Joy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Why am I still awake !!! Gnight !!!    zzzzzzzz


----------



## connieflyer

Because it is only 11:56 a./m. here!


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> If Elise was Swedish, her name would be Lisa.
> 
> Since we are digressing, what is paddle footed but does not waddle?


 
 I usually pass on riddles because they force me to think. But I tried looking it up on Google. No luck (((
  
 Maybe @UntilThen will wake up in the morning and solve it )))


----------



## hypnos1

nykobing said:


> I just tried a pair of ken rad 6c8g and they are quiet too, it must be a bad adapter, because those made noise in every thing I ever owned. They actually sound really really nice btw.


 
  
 Not surprising really, nykobing...a very well regarded tube, along with the 6f8g...
  


redbull said:


> Thanks for the description UT.  Can't wait to pull the trigger!!
> 
> 
> You are all great guys here, I am going to join the dark side, the force is STRONG!
> ...


 
  
 Good man!...but beware strangers wearing masks and/or brandishing Sabres - well, you did ask what DACs folks are using a while back, no?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mine is said ESS Sabre 9018 housed inside an Audiolab 8200CD player (with USB/coax/optical in)...and extremely good it is too, lol! Tomorrow I shall be receiving a custom-built tube DAC - also based on the 9018, and which I showed just recently.
  
@UntilThen has the NAD D 1050; @Lord Raven the Geek Pulse; @hpamdr the Gustard X20...can't remember any more alas - perhaps others will chime in (this is indeed a very important element to consider in any system IMHO...along with headphones, of course...and yet another very difficult juggling trick to get right with regard to total system synergy, it would appear - as if you didn't already know LOL!!).


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Here is a hint to the riddle: P8A and here is the inspiration to the P8A:


----------



## nykobing

mordy said:


> Hi nykobing,
> 
> I have had a couple of adapters that were defective, and the sellers always replaced them. Suggest that you contact the seller - I am sure they will send you a replacement.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have Elise #48 and am using a pair of HD650. I am only getting hum with 6N7G/6N7GT when used as drivers. Last night after I posted that message I tried the adapters in another headphone amp and got hum with one of the adapters and one was quiet. I ordered a new pair this morning of the gold looking ones, I hope that solves it.  There are so many other great tubes I wouldn't even be that upset if it is still making noise.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Here is a hint to the riddle: P8A and here is the inspiration to the P8A:


 
 The only P8A I can find on Google is the Boeing P-8A Poseidon, and that doesn't seem to have gotten me any closer. Oh, I feel so dumb ((((


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Here is a hint to the riddle: P8A and here is the inspiration to the P8A:




I see where this is going, and it's not Boeing.


----------



## aqsw

Is it a Falkland Islands bank 1 pound note.


----------



## supersonic395

All this talk about the Elise is wonderful! I'm getting through my music collection at a good pace... The flac files sound so damn good!

Can't wait until the Elise arrives


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> I see where this is going, and it's not Boeing.


 
 So far all it has established is why I hate riddles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've had my morning coffee, but my brain still isn't in gear. I'll try this next:


----------



## mordy

Hej Oskari and Hi pct,
  
 Just found the secret warehouse where Peter stores all the EL3N tubes:
  




  
 It really is a picture from the P-8A lol.
  
 Anyhow - here is the answer to the riddle:
  




  
 This is the P8A base with the paddle feet of a EL3N.
  
*Europe side contact base P (P8A)*
  
 Do u see the similarity?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hej Oskari and Hi pct,
> 
> Just found the secret warehouse where Peter stores all the EL3N tubes:
> 
> ...


 
 Well I'm glad it wasn't a Falkland Islands bank 1 pound note. I was about to appeal to the moderator


----------



## connieflyer

Well that P8 is the successor to the aircraft I used to fly on,as electronics tech not pilot. P8 is nice platform,but lacks class like Constellations had! Paddle feet is a good description of tube base,real glad we did not have any on our equipment, we would never had made missions in time, if we had to change those tubes!!!!


----------



## mordy

Hi aqsw,
  
 Inflation - the 1 cent coin has this picture:
  




 But going back to tubes - don't understand the thinking behind the paddle feet P8A base. Besides being very bulky and difficult to use, both inserting and taking out the tubes, the tubes are not sitting firmly in the base and they feel lose when inserted.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> But going back to tubes - don't understand the thinking behind the paddle feet P8A base. Besides being very bulky and difficult to use, both inserting and taking out the tubes, the tubes are not sitting firmly in the base and they feel lose when inserted.




I have a feeling that the Chinese sockets might be a part of the problem.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Using 2xC3G as drivers and 4xEL3N as power tubes cause distortion not just on HE560 but HD650 and T1 as well. So I gave up on the combo. My conclusion is that quad EL3Ns as power tubes are best used with 2xEL3Ns as drivers. Even using 6N7G and quad EL3Ns didn't work very well. Lower gain (volume).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well am back from the High End, and yeah it is work. Its very fun, but having to do super attentive listening instead of enjoying the music for 12hrs a day, you want to get paid. And smoozing and entertaining clients, its a dirty job but someone has to do it. Actually just do highend stuff on the side and some colatoral benefits e.g. discounts, also because it is a lot of fun, especially if you are spending other people's money it can have another fun aspect but then you have to give your artwork away.... 

This way of doing it part time with select clients and not having to run your own business is the right thing full time it would loose its flair and become work instead of passion easily. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016 and UT,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi Mordy, 
that looks so wrong it's really cool again I was also playing with the quad EL3N and C3Gs, which kind of works for the Fidelio X2 although there are issues with the 35ohm impedence so this is far from ideal and not really a recommend, same with the Grados, I see the potential but it needs to be implemented better, buffered by something. Am really interested what you'll find out. I noticed that the c3gs after about 50hrs of burnin are much improved and will just play with them to get them ready for future listening. 

Thanks for looking into it Mordy, you da man!

 I've been recouping from the Munich Highend. Listened to a lot of hps, Orpheus 2, STAX 009, Shangrila, in the revised edition for the highend, HEK, T1.2, Sennheiser 800 and S, STAX SRL500 & 700. Did not have time for the Abysm or Mr. speaker's Ethers though, also an issue with Europe and distributors. 

Take Care,
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Being impatient, I decided to try WB2016's recipe, at least partially. Don't have all the EL3N adapters in yet, but I can use EL3N and C3gS as power tubes - the drivers chosen are the Mazda 6N7G.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Ah great the first combos. Yeah, you are bringing memries of my beautiful 427ci in my 67 Thunderbird, you could pass almost anything but the next gas station What a car for 3K, but when gas was a dollar after 9/11 who cared. Wait were talking about tubes not cars, ah I miss the american muscle cars and classics, that's just not possible in Europe anymore at least not just as a hobby, cruiser, second car.

 But back to the tubes, the sacrilege is good blending of american and european tubes is where its at often although I did hear some nice all american 845 and 300B amps. There was a lot of talk of some of the engineers of blending a very good tonal characteristics tube with one that has musicality or other desirable features, such as was done well on the Voxativ amp (actually in the room not sure if it was by them though). The amp and the TotalDac were great but they had a few issues in the room while I was there... But those tubes sang. Also the 300B Shangrila amp was superb, I am always a bit reluctant with the 300Bs but that was very Noiiize! Its interesting to see what the best are playing with and see if that inspires us. It will be hit and miss, but a fun ride. 

Thanks for the updates, can't wait. 

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Both these 2 combinations produce loud hums.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hmn, sad to hear, how did it sound apart from the hum?

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Ah reading on it seems the experiment was short lived, a shame, the 6x el3n is really superb. Also as a preamp leaves little to ask for. Best 900$ you can spend Ellise and quads, really gets you a 2k preamp and a splendid tubeamp combo

Let me know if the 2xEL3N and c3g plus some output tube does somehow work. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Both these 2 combinations produce loud hums.
> ...


 

 Hum is too loud. I would not advise to touch this combo. There is potential to damage the amp. I have never had hum but this is crazy loud. Don't forget we're using the pentodes as strapped triodes and here we have both C3G and EL3N. Better be safe than sorry.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Glad you've master the art of renewing the adapters.
> 
> For anyone new to getting EL3N into the adapters the first time, here's how I do it easily.
> 
> ...



 


Well piece of cake..., but it gets much easier. 

Update. One of the issues I was having with a reference CD of soundtrack and epic movie with crazy very deep <80hz rapidly fluctuating bass was in one of the drivers and hp. Some of it was a big smudge on the CD... That was a heart felt duh moment The other issue was with the EL3Ns one of the pins did not have very good contact it seemed. Took them all out and put them back in. Still not a huge fan of force on tubes, it just goes against the grain. Well that and making sure the connections were spot on, deoxit, etc. Not just on the adapter but also on the the rca cables and moved the Elise a bit further away from my powered monitors, which fixed the situation. 

The Elise does create some amount of EM field it seems, because it affects the response of my midrange driver on the powered monitor if it is closer than 60cm from the driver. It slows them down, a bit. I can easily put her on a differnt shelf or could have used a metal divider. She does benefit greatly from wall mounting and better acoustic isolation when used as a preamp as well so winwin. 

Not an issue but a lot contributed to the wanky unclean bass response issues I had on one channel not just the tube. Really need to get a better power cable for the Elise as well there is still a bit of electric distortion from the power cable, but its really getting there. Don't really want to do power conditioning and co in the office. Power is quite good and might borrow an APC unit from the IT guys but I doubt/hope I will not need it. But we are getting in really solid SE tube amp terrain with the little Elise, hats off. 

Was worth the money, next steps will be the fuse and powercable, as well as deciding between a T1 and 800s

Now time to do some more listening.


Take care
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Hum is too loud. I would not advise to touch this combo. There is potential to damage the amp. I have never had hum but this is crazy loud. Don't forget we're using the pentodes as strapped triodes and here we have both C3G and EL3N. Better be safe than sorry.



 


Yeah the sound would blend but not the tubes. Shame.
Thanks UT


----------



## UntilThen

You're welcome WB !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's new toy time. The lazy susan has arrived. Let's see how it pairs with Elise.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> You're welcome WB !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Nice, you couldn't resist full automatic. Those are quite popular for transfering large collection of vinyl onto CD, can be a tad dark but a good intro turntable, you'll have a lot of fun. I like the silver ones, for 200€ you cannot go wrong. 

Sure you read up on setup. The most important thing is really good leveling, proper setup and check leveling again in a few weeks with inexpensive players. Sure you'll have a lot of fun and I can totally see the appeal of full automatic with headphones and falling asleep.

Cheers
WB


----------



## UntilThen

Success. Amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 Sounds better than CD and Tidal HiFi. Solid bass. Very clear and organic. Analogue? Haha... of course. TT has phono preamp build in which can be turn off if connected to an amp with phono preamp. However here I left it on and TT is connected to Elise via RCA cable.
  
 No hum. Very clean sound and no pops or crackles because my LP is brand new. 
  
 Some initial setup but very easy. Mount aluminum platter and hook the belt. Setup tone arm with counter weight and cartridge. Straight forward. This thing is fool proof. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Automatic !!! Press the start button and away it goes. Auto return too.
  
 I can't believe it sounded so good. I'm gonna be hooked on vinyl. I only have 3 new LPs now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh I need a brush and some cleaning kit.
  
 Unboxing photos .... haha.


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow UT, you're getting that great sound out of EL3N + GE 6AS7GA?


----------



## connieflyer

Congratulations on going "old school". I had a blast all the years I had turntables, but friends convinced me cd's were better.  Not better, just easier,with remote and all.  My last table, I had an ADC 4000, I think, it had a laser to pick out track numbers, had about 20 track buttons, speed buttons, could program order of tracks including repeats, was very nice used an Empire 999VE cartridge, it was the purple one, one step below the black top of line, naturally wanted that one but the "boss" told me to deal  with it!  Not quite as good as the Thorens I had but so easy to use, major flaw was it would not turn over disk or select another!  Have a ball, the sound is superb!


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Wow UT, you're getting that great sound out of EL3N + GE 6AS7GA?


 

 No. I have on EL3N and Tung Sol 7236 as in the photo. Listening with T1 and modded HD650. Pure bliss. I'm so happy. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Congratulations on going "old school". I had a blast all the years I had turntables, but friends convinced me cd's were better.  Not better, just easier,with remote and all.  My last table, I had an ADC 4000, I think, it had a laser to pick out track numbers, had about 20 track buttons, speed buttons, could program order of tracks including repeats, was very nice used an Empire 999VE cartridge, it was the purple one, one step below the black top of line, naturally wanted that one but the "boss" told me to deal  with it!  Not quite as good as the Thorens I had but so easy to use, major flaw was it would not turn over disk or select another!  Have a ball, the sound is superb!


 

 CF, it's been almost 40 years since I have a TT. The 1st and last was when I was 20 and it's a Mitsubishi TT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is good. More involvement / personal touch and it does sound better than my flac files off JRiver through NAD d1050 to Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

You sir, are a baaaaadddd influence, now I have to drag out an old turntable and go through hundred's of lp's and then buy a new turntable, do it all over again, and by then, I will be to old to go up and downstairs, so Elise stays near the computer where they will find me, when my time comes, with headphones in place and blazing hot!


----------



## DecentLevi

So, looks like Peter still has some EL3N's... and out of curiosity I checked the US eBay seller which I've bought a few from too - he is sold out but I noticed a few similar (looking) tubes which I thought may be of interest, or even as an alternative:
  
*EL3 TUNGSRAM (2 for $40 - 10 available)*

  
*RTR 4342 - (2 for $45 - 1 pair avail.)*

  
_note: I'm unsure regarding compatibility on these two types_
  
  
 Also @WB2016 - so you've recently tried the Orpheus 2, STAX 009, Shangrila, HEK... so how does using the humble Elise fare after all this?
  
 And @RedBull I should also mention you may be able to talk Feliks Audio into accepting a partial deposit, then the rest due after completion for the Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> You sir, are a baaaaadddd influence, now I have to drag out an old turntable and go through hundred's of lp's and then buy a new turntable, do it all over again, and by then, I will be to old to go up and downstairs, so Elise stays near the computer where they will find me, when my time comes, with headphones in place and blazing hot!


 
 Hey you already have 100s of LPs ... lucky you. 
  
 If the old TT works, use it otherwise get this Denon DP300F. It's good, cheap and auto everything. Pretty decent stock Shure cartridge too.
  
 PS.. the TT can stay next to Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh... I have to hook it up to the lounge system next.


----------



## connieflyer

Does the turntable do 45's?  Have 450 disks to go through before I let them go.


----------



## UntilThen

Both 45 and 33. 
  
 450 LPs !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Cool!   Did I just say that! Showing my age for sure


----------



## connieflyer

This is the last turntable I had...fun....http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ADC-Accutrac-4000-Turntable-w-Auto-Track-Selection-Remote-Manual-/191856147714?hash=item2cab847d02:g:3ZkAAOSw4hdXHqSM


----------



## mordy

It's a really strange coincidence that I too started playing with a turntable today - must be something in the air....
  
 However, I did not get very far. The turntable is an 80's Oracle Alexandria which was supposed to be high end then. The one I recently bought must have been sitting around unused a long time. The belt is two sizes too big and dried up, and the massive platter seems to be scraping something when I put a record on it.
  
 The first question is (and don't laugh!): How do i make an emergency belt for the turntable? I am not ready to spend money on the TT if it is defective. Any suggestions on a DIY belt?  (I read about fishing line, sewing thread, bicycle rim rubber liner, surgical silk, O rings etc today, but did not get down to do anything practical yet.)
  
 Regarding records, I have some 150-200 LPs and a couple of 78's, but they have been gathering dust for years. (I believe that the real record collector on this forum is JV with 2500 LPs, but I seem to remember others with extensive record collections as well.)


----------



## UntilThen

I have the most LPs. I have 3 right now and I have the pleasure of cutting up the plastic wrappers for the first time. 
  
 I have no idea what belts you can use for your TT.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy,

For goodness sake man, buy that Oracle Alexandria a new belt!! Don't horse around with any stinking DIY belt on that classic beauty!!

If the table is scraping, probably needs to be carefully leveled.


Congrats on the new Denon UT, you should also ensure the new toy is leveled, both front to back and side to side.

Enjoy the dac-less-ness, kids 

.


----------



## connieflyer

Grab a disk from Clannad ..............


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks JV. This TT is lots of fun already.  I keep playing that Dire Straits LP on both sides over and over. It's 180 grams. Now to try the other 2 LPs.
  
 I need to buy a basic cleaning kit that comes with a brush. I probably need a spirit level to check it's level but it sound pretty level to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yep, I have a few 


.


----------



## connieflyer

For us non turntable types.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Thanks JV. This TT is lots of fun already.  I keep playing that Dire Straits LP on both sides over and over. It's 180 grams. Now to try the other 2 LPs.
> 
> I need to buy a basic cleaning kit that comes with a brush. I probably need a spirit level to check it's level but it sound pretty level to me.




All tables need to be level. Use a small ruler type level and check in both directions. Some feet have built in level capability, if not, use an old deck of playing cards under the feet, and level 'er up.

Brush?

Use this one before and after each play (playing kicks up some rocks).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=966397&gclid=CPj6ze3DzswCFZJlfgodfm4Gzg&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677562%2C&is=REG&A=details

Enjoy dragging gemstone through plastic 

.


----------



## connieflyer

Still have my original one......http://www.amazon.com/RCA-RD-1006-Discwasher-Record-System/dp/B000KMZKTO%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-ffab-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB000KMZKTO


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yep, have a couple of my old discwashers, too...that's the old way. 

New way is the soft carbon brush.

New way, more better 

.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh man 2nd Dire Straits Communique LP. Simply stunning sound. Sound from left ear, right ear, top of head, back of head and out of head. I'm hearing so much more !!!
  
 Bass is so infectious. The whole FR is infectious mushroom. 
  
 Now to buy an anti static carbon fibre record cleaning brush and stylus brush.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Vacuum tubes and vinyl - technologies from the dark, distant past. What's next? Will you be communicating with us by smoke signals. I understand the trick is getting the bottom of the fire pit perfectly level.


----------



## UntilThen

TT and Tube amp ... and T1... that's 4 Ts. What I always wanted without robbing the bank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not only does it look good but it sounds good.


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Glad you've master the art of renewing the adapters.
> ...


 
  
 Looks like you're getting there WB - PLEASE get all those system elements sorted 100%...Elise and EL3Ns will thank you (and reward you) no end lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(will be keeping my eye on you, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...
  


decentlevi said:


> So, looks like Peter still has some EL3N's... and out of curiosity I checked the US eBay seller which I've bought a few from too - he is sold out but I noticed a few similar (looking) tubes which I thought may be of interest, or even as an alternative:
> 
> *EL3 TUNGSRAM (2 for $40 - 10 available)*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL - those older 'SHOULDERED' glass envelope EL3's are supposedly mis-labelled 'N's after all (in a fat bottle)..the 'true' EL3 having straight sides (and not a straight swap). That 4342 is another animal entirely it appears...20+V heater, old 7-pin base...
  


untilthen said:


> TT and Tube amp ... and T1... that's 4 Ts. What I always wanted without robbing the bank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like you're in Heaven once again UT - but be honest now...are you telling me you have the delightful TOTAL DEATHLY BLACK BACKGROUND SILENCE of digital lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!


----------



## Lord Raven

AWESOME  We got to get together soon 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> TT and Tube amp ... and T1... that's 4 Ts. What I always wanted without robbing the bank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Sounds like you're in Heaven once again UT - but be honest now...are you telling me you have the delightful TOTAL DEATHLY BLACK BACKGROUND SILENCE of digital lol?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Time for some meaningful impressions. Prior to the TT arriving, I've been listening to these 2 albums on Tidal HiFi, which is CD quality equivalent at 16/44.1khz.
  
 Dire Straits - Dire Straits Remastered
 Dire Straits - Communique
  
 I love the songs in these albums and know it well. I love how it sounded on Tidal HiFi via NAD d1050 > Elise > T1.
  
 However, I was not prepared for how much more vibrant and dynamic the LP sounded when I listen to it. It's like the light bulbs came on and I see stars. There's layers here I've not heard before and vinyl does sound better. It might not be the blackest black and the darkest night compared to digital but it is certainly more alive and musical. I'm sure anyone hearing what I'm hearing will agree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
Crackles and pops, and the whine of the stylus against the LP are all the problems associated with vinyl but for many, these sounds are just part of the vinyl experience, adding to the charm of a format that takes some extra effort and be rewarded with something special.
  
When the song 'Once Upon A Time In The West' came on, I was ready to saddle my horse and go for a long ride.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Oh man 2nd Dire Straits Communique LP. Simply stunning sound. Sound from left ear, right ear, top of head, back of head and out of head. I'm hearing so much more !!!
> 
> Bass is so infectious. The whole FR is infectious mushroom.
> 
> Now to buy an anti static carbon fibre record cleaning brush and stylus brush.




Not surprised that your hearing great sonics. I have some LP's (but not all) that sound much better than the CD counterparts.

Depends on how much $$$ was spent on the production at the start of the project.

For stylus cleaning, forget about a brush, use a piece of the "Mr Clean" Magic Eraser, unplug table (so that the table does not spin) bring arm over and rest the diamond on the magic eraser for 10~20 minutes. Cleans it, without abrasion.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> For stylus cleaning, forget about a brush, use a piece of the "Mr Clean" Magic Eraser, unplug table (so that the table does not spin) bring arm over and rest the diamond on the magic eraser for 10~20 minutes. Cleans it, without abrasion.


 
 I read about the magic eraser but I end up buying an Ortofon stylus brush and a Carbon Anti Static Record cleaning brush.


----------



## UntilThen

Even a Youtube vinyl recording sounds good


----------



## JazzVinyl

Careful with the stylus brush 

How much fun has UT had contouring sound with tubes?

Another whole world exists, tweaking the table to preform better.

The Denon has a built on Phono Preamp - that can be bypassed....(hint hint hint)

A Moving Coil (MC) cartridge fleshes out details that a Moving Magnet (MM) cartridge completely misses.

A more expensive diamond profile (smaller and special shapes) rides lower in the grove and misses damage (heard as pops/clicks) from plays with lesser gear on used vinyl.

A super aligned cartridge misses 90% of surface noise (I don't care who did the alignment if it ain't missin' 'em, it isn't perfectly aligned yet).

And a BIG ONE....buy or borrow a good quality stethoscope, and place it on the deck with the turntable while it's playing....your job is to eliminate the low rumble sound heard in the stethoscope (that is coming from the running motor). That noise you hear, introduces tiny vibrations that rob the cartridges cantilever of micro details that ARE present in them there grooves...

Eliminating as much motor noise as possible really blackens the background and lets the goodness of analog recording technique, come through.

It's EVERY BIT as endless as tubes 

Have fun!


----------



## RedBull

connieflyer said:


> You are correct RedBull, the force is VERY strong here!  Welcome to the club, you will not be disappointed.


 
  
 My will is weak .... resistance is futile
 (image missing)
  
 (image missing)
  


hypnos1 said:


> Good man!...but beware strangers wearing masks and/or brandishing Sabres - well, you did ask what DACs folks are using a while back, no?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes sir, DAC has its own sound, at least I can imagine how you guys pair this baby with.
  


decentlevi said:


> And @RedBull I should also mention you may be able to talk Feliks Audio into accepting a partial deposit, then the rest due after completion for the Elise.


 
  
 Thanks for the tips, i will ask for this 'feature'


----------



## UntilThen

Don't tempt me to spend more money so soon. I'm enjoying watching the LP spin as it is and since it's new there's hardly any pops and crackles. 
  
 So certainly no cartridge upgrade yet or a separate phono preamp.  Will connect it to the stereo receiver preamp and try it.
  
 Stethoscope? You have to be kidding. The family will think I've gone crazy. This TT is so quiet I can't hear any noise from the spinning platter. Must be a new belt.


----------



## RedBull

Can anyone see my post above?
 I see blank once after i press submit.
  
 All i was saying is, thanks Conniflier (the force), Hypnos1 (DAC information), DL for the down payment tips.  Will do that.


----------



## RedBull

How much shipping cost to US?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Don't tempt me to spend more money so soon. I'm enjoying watching the LP spin as it is and since it's new there's hardly any pops and crackles.
> 
> So certainly no cartridge upgrade yet or a separate phono preamp.  Will connect it to the stereo receiver preamp and try it.
> 
> Stethoscope? You have to be kidding. The family will think I've gone crazy. This TT is so quiet I can't hear any noise from the spinning platter. Must be a new belt.




Yes, a stethoscope - you'll be quite surprised at what you hear.

Understand about "yet" - not to worry, the urge will come 


.

.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Careful with the stylus brush
> 
> How much fun has UT had contouring sound with tubes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry JV...have had quite enough of "endless" thanks - in time, effort  AND $$$$!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.... (Will certainly keep the vinyl for speaker listening, though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And as you touched on, a lot also depends on the original LP production....not to mention the quality of digital same - I have some remastered 'old' recordings in 24/96kHz and 192kHz especially that are quite astounding...with NO background nasties, that my own ears are particularly allergic to (no matter how much I try to persevere, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So it's horses for courses...yet again, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Sorry JV...have had quite enough of "endless" thanks - in time, effort  AND $$$$!! :wink_face: .... (Will certainly keep the vinyl for speaker listening, though...).
> 
> And as you touched on, a lot also depends on the original LP production....not to mention the quality of digital same - I have some remastered 'old' recordings in 24/96kHz and 192kHz especially that are quite astounding...with NO background nasties, that my own ears are particularly allergic to (no matter how much I try to persevere, alas!  ). So it's horses for courses...yet again, lol!  ...




Sorry h1 - 

The "Endless" part- is what makes it a hobby, silly! :wink_face:


----------



## connieflyer

redbull said:


> Can anyone see my post above?
> I see blank once after i press submit.
> 
> All i was saying is, thanks Conniflier (the force), Hypnos1 (DAC information), DL for the down payment tips.  Will do that.


 

 I think shipping is figured in the price.  I was just looking on my invoice and did not see a line item for that.  There is one for VAT which may contain that, it was about $60.  Lukasz could tell you easy enough.


----------



## connieflyer

And besides, a good stethoscope is useful when you go to the mall, you can pretend to be a doctor and charge a fee to offset your purchases, see this hobby CAN pay for itself.  I tried it at the mall, and now that I am out of jail for that minor offense, finding other uses for it, checking to see where noises are coming from, stomach, small intestine,large intestine, endlessly useful!


----------



## RedBull

connieflyer said:


> I think shipping is figured in the price.  I was just looking on my invoice and did not see a line item for that.  There is one for VAT which may contain that, it was about $60.  Lukasz could tell you easy enough.


 
  
 Got it, ship to my place $100


----------



## mordy

HI JV,
  
 I still have my Littman stethoscope from a previous incarnation:
  





  
 But my problem with the Alexandria TT is not only the belt - the platter rubs against the chassis when spinning - don't need a stethoscope to hear that. There are three towers with springs that hold the platter assembly - have to find a way to adjust the height of the platter and figure out how to level the TT.
  
 I stopped attending school many decades ago and I hate learning curves. But I have to start studying how to set it up and use the TT.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...

Hang on to the stethoscope for when you have the platter problems, solved. Please note the Oracle Alexandria is a formidable table, capable of astounding playback.

Please level the base, side to side and front to back.

I will PM you some further resources to help with the platter suspension.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

You all be damned! You just cost me $740!

I was wondering if anybody who heard/owns an Elise, has heard a DNA Stratus. Major price difference, but so many people here state that Elise plays with the big guys... so how about it? 

Hell this thread moves faster than a train... 15 pages top catch up


----------



## WB2016

decentlevi said:


> So, looks like Peter still has some EL3N's... and out of curiosity I checked the US eBay seller which I've bought a few from too - he is sold out but I noticed a few similar (looking) tubes which I thought may be of interest, or even as an alternative:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


You appreciate it for what it is. That's like comparing a Golf or Accura to no money bared cars, e.g. Veyron. You can compare within one group or category but less so accross, at least meaningfully from an experience and perception point of view. Absolutely maybe but what the hell. I am still content with what I have. Interesting was how good the STAX SRL 700 is. STAX really did produce something remarkably close to the 009, at least experientially, you would get quite a lot of everything if you don't slip into the comparing and what is lacking, instead focusing on what you have and what you experience. 

So happy with Elise but de to little time I am almost exclussively using it as a preamp still because I need to do a lot of things that are hindered by cables. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Looks like you're getting there WB - PLEASE get all those system elements sorted 100%...Elise and EL3Ns will thank you (and reward you) no end lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah luckily a lot of the checking I have a bit of training in trouble shooting other people's systems. But unfortunately you have an ear for anything that is wrong. 

Take Care
WB


----------



## WB2016

coldassault said:


> Can anybody who owns (owned?) or extensively heard the Elise compare it to Icon Audio's HP8 Mk2? Very much in doubt between the two...
> 
> At the sideline, there is also the Trafomatic Head One...
> 
> Thanks for chiming in!



 


Hi so after listening with quite a few hps, ies, grados, X2, momentum, hd650, and a borrowed HD800, I can give you somewhat of an oppinion. Again no abx testing just memory and impression/. A caveat, I know and very much like the Icon Audio audio equipment and the HP8.2 is a very good hp amp. There are as usual pros and cons. The Icon is better at dealing with low impedence hps and if you have a large collection of ie and phones below 50ohm it might be the better candidate for some, also if you want to see what playing around with diffent impedences to see what a hp would sound at higher and lower impedence this is interesting and an option that the Elise does not have. Although at roughly 50ohms and definitevely at 150ohm and above I have to give it to the Elise. Especially at 300ohm the Elise really shines, even in stock configuration this is quite exceptional, in musicality and especially in transmitting the awe of music at the price point really tough to beat. Also in terms of tube rolling I have to give it to the Elise, more options. In terms of value, the Elise is is around 600€ the HP8.2 is around 800€. Both are very good hps, but especially with the EL3Ns and using it as a preamp is what would close it for me buying an Elise. I am glad I went that route, with the HD650 it is a dream, even unmodded. The HD800 is also a very good match, but likely the 800s would go better. Both amps are SE and the incredible resolution of the 800 cannot be fully resolved, but with a sub $1000 tube hp amp that won't be possible. You will need to spend more than 4-5K to spend as much as you want these are among the most analytical 800 will benefit from balance a bit if you like to focus even more on the details and soundstage, but for enjoying tthe music not sure if that doesn't get in the way. Waiting for the T1s well waiting to buy until I get paid for my high end 2016 work this will have to wait. Helped sell a Wilson system in the Nagra/Wilson room, which truely sounded superb, really breathtaking, I did a really small part and got a hd 650 as prereward What a soothing listen after tthe noise and listening fatique at the show.

If you are in the UK buying a HP 8 might be a better option or if you have a lot of ie and about 32 ohm hps. 

Again it will depend on your preferences but most would prefer an Elise unless you want to add tube sound to lower impedence phones then the HP8 would seem better. Both are very good amps but I enjoyed that "je ne sais quoi" of the Elise and musicality and option to use it as a pretty good preamp with the 6xel3n. If you find a used HP8.2, good luck the owners almost never sell them, then it might be a better option if the price is right and you avoid the wait for the Elise.

Hope that helps 
Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

coldassault said:


> You all be damned! You just cost me $740!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


The stratus DNA I heard only once and punches above its weight class (though quite a bit less than the Elise) and is about 3000 €, so 4-5 times as expensive as the Elise. Its balanced and uses 2A3 tubes. The El3N are famous for being very similar to 2A3 at a fraction of the price and at better stability and longevity, but purely sound wise the 2A3 are better and usually matched which you generally do not do for EL3N unless you own measurement equipment. 
You go down the obsessing rabbit hole or the enjoying rabbit hole the choice is yours, the blue amp or the black amp pick one

Its like comparing an mitsubishi evo to a ferrari. Who knows what will be more fun to drive for you, I know which is objectively better and which is a far better deal in terms of value. You take your pick only you know what makes you happy.

If it were me I'd buy the Elise, and then a SRL700 with a good matching electrostatic amp. You would be satisfied in two different ways spending about the same as a DNA Stratus. It depends on your ability to enjoy the music though and not of obsessing about improvement.

Just my two cents. Depends if you want always better or are satisfied with great. If you are case #1 don't ever listen to anything except your own rig afterwards, never go to shows and try to become #2 fast or audiphileness awaits you with some of the pleasure and all of the cost 

Very good amp the Stratus also in terms of high end if that is what you are after, but there are better (and more expensive) amps than the DNA stratus. Also not really an option in Europe as much.

Cheers WB


----------



## connieflyer

Wow, now my head is so full of info I feel I must go read a comic book until I digest all that. A very through and thoughtfull answer. If anyone is still on the fence after that explanation they are hopelessly lost. If I had to guess you are in sales and passionate about what you do. I thank you for taking the time and effort to expond on this. We will have to write down the post number, so that any new comers to this thread can be enlightened. We'll done and we'll said.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Sorry h1 -
> 
> The "Endless" part- is what makes it a hobby, silly!


 
  
 Aaahhh....tell me about it JV!! - hobby?...or addiction/obsession lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Am still recovering from same re. my Koi-keeping : viz. pond reconstruction #3; filtration system #3; 2 total wipeouts of fish due to disease/cats/herons, with accompanying sleepless nights; bottomless expense pit...etc. etc.  And so an end to the "endless" in hobbies becomes MUCH more attractive LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially the older I get! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). I am just hoping and praying that my current contentment with my lot - both fish AND music - remains true and constant...else I fear for what's left of my sanity!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Aaahhh....tell me about it JV!! - hobby?...or addiction/obsession lol?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sanity is a highly overrated concept and fish are for eating


----------



## UntilThen

This thread is spinning faster than my turntable. From Koi carps to Ferrari, from Elise to DNA Stratus, from EL3N to 2A3.
  
 EL3N is indeed a special tube. You get a taste of 2A3 for a fraction of cost and let's get serious, let's not pitch Elise with amps about 4 times the cost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It reminds me of a **** a doo da doo that I had when I was a kid. This is a normal rooster but with an unusual grey and gold color and an aggression and attitude that makes it attack anyone coming within distance. Pretty soon, it's fame grew and people are bringing their fighting rooster to pitch them in combat. As with any good tale, Simba won and grew to a ripe old age and died a hero and a legend.
  
 Sorry where was I? Ah TT and Elise and EL3N and T1. Listening to a lovely album of Bruce Springsteen's 'Born In the USA', Columbia records.


----------



## UntilThen

Dang @mordy make sure you have your TT refurbish. It looks good.
  
 http://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/oracle-alexandria-turntable/


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 You made my day with your quote:
  
_Sanity is a highly overrated concept and fish are for eating_
  
 I am still laughing..... L O L
 H1,
  
 Was once in a garden center with a fish pond and these guys came chasing me :
  
  




  
 Are these the ones you grow?


----------



## mordy

HI UT,
  
 That's the one - comes with a dust cover as well.
  
 It is quite well preserved and the tone arm lift works. The platter rubs against the chassis and the belt needs replacement - have to learn how to make adjustments to the springs. Got a second TT as well - a Thorens TD 115 MKII. When I plugged it in now at hums badly - don't know why.


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> HI UT,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


huming is usually some grounding issues, assuming you grounded it, there are some additional grounding inside you can take a look at. See for example
http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_tweaks.htm

Section:
Tonearm signal wires are soldered to the RCA jacks. The tonearm body ground wire solders to the ground stud on the jack plate. The chassis/bearing ground from the ,motorboard tab solders also to the ground stud at the jack plate. 



Not sure how old yours is, don't know much about the old thorens but that is a player from the mid eighties usually if I remember. Lot can get loose easily, especially the soldered wires. 


This pdf might help trouble shooting getting old thorens back to glory.
http://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/thorens.pdf

Hope that helps.
WB


----------



## UntilThen

@mordy you do have some vintage turntables and it's making a come back.


----------



## supersonic395

Basil Poledouris made an awesome soundtrack for Conan and I can't wait to crank it through the Elise


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> HI UT,
> 
> That's the one - comes with a dust cover as well.
> 
> It is quite well preserved and the tone arm lift works. The platter rubs against the chassis and the belt needs replacement - have to learn how to make adjustments to the springs. Got a second TT as well - a Thorens TD 115 MKII. When I plugged it in now at hums badly - don't know why.




The Oracle Alexandria is known to possibly suffer from a bent sub structure, Mordy...

Sent you some info via PM. One fellow said Oracle is aware of the problem and makes a replacement part that is "not too expensive".

May be more than a spring adjustment, in other words. Hope not....but....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @mordy
> you do have some vintage turntables and it's making a come back.




Wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that said, over the last 40 years.

They are *niche niche niche*.

They will *not* come back and take over media storage methods, in popularity.

I do wish they would come back enough to make new vinyl pressings more affordable. They are quite *niche priced* at the moment!

@mordy - your Thorens hums because it needs to be properly grounded. New ground wire from a metal part under the table, over to the ground on your outlet...or the Elise...


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Basil Poledouris made an awesome soundtrack for Conan and I can't wait to crank it through the Elise


 

 I'm checking this out on Tidal now.


----------



## mordy

I thanks everybody for their advice - will proceed step by step.
  
 The Thorens TT has a ground wire coming out from the chassis and I connected it to the grounding thumb screw on the back of the pre-amplifier that was included in the system I bought - a Tandberg 3008A. Have to check again on the ground wire connections.
  
 Also included is a 150W Tandberg 3006A amplifier.
  
 All solid high end 80's stuff - don't know how many years the stuff has been sitting.
  
 Interestingly enough, all the connecting patch cords come with a grounding wire - you don't see that today.


----------



## connieflyer

As I remember, one of my old Thorens had a separate ground wire.  Don't remember now which model, I had a few.


----------



## UntilThen

Who's a Daft Punk fan? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well I am and I just bought this album.


----------



## audiojun

@UntilThen
 I love that daft punk album. I have it on digital 24bit 88khz. One of my reference albums. The game of love is high quality so is giorgio by moroder actually the whole album is HQ.


----------



## UntilThen

Glad you like Daft Punk too. The vinyl version is very good. Absolutely love it. 2LPs !!!


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> I'm checking this out on Tidal now.




Did you like it??? How did it sound through the Elise??


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Did you like it??? How did it sound through the Elise??


 

 Conan was good on Elise but I was too pre-occupied with the 2 albums I bought today.


----------



## UntilThen

Album covers are so nice. There's info sheets inside as well. This album is really well made. From cover to vinyl, it's just quality.
  
 Vinyl on Elise sounds amazing.


----------



## UntilThen

With 6 x EL3N now. Really love this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   
  
 Daft Punk is really good.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah Daft Punk - electronic music sounds sound especially stellar on vinyl - it's something about how vinyl reproduces the dynamics of the beats. And oddly enough, it's largely only electronic music that is still pressed on vinyl - partly to satisfy those old school DJ's who still mix on vinyl
  

  
 And now for an electro DJ set in a very traditional style and form 

  
 UT you did say however that you enjoy vinyl better than lossless out of your NAD 1050 DAC - I'll bet that could be reversed if you were to have a more TOTL DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

Sure there is better for everything but you'll have to pay a much higher price but the NAD d1050 isn't exactly entry level. In fact I think it sounded great and this reviewer agrees. 
  
 http://headphone.guru/nad-d1050-review/
  
 However I still think vinyl sounds more enjoyable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll probably start a vinyl vs digital war here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That Daft Punk RAM LP is really great.


----------



## HOWIE13

Quote:
  
  
 Could you just guide me as to which adapters I need for this 6 EL3N set up.
 I'm somewhat confused by the plethora of adapter options.
 Thanks.
  
  


untilthen said:


> With 6 x EL3N now. Really love this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


>


 

 Howie, you will need a pair of these single adapters for the front drivers.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
 and a pair of these dual adapters for the back power tubes.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Howie, you will need a pair of these single adapters for the front drivers.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, that was super-quick thanks.
 Does the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter slot into Elise's 6AS7 power socket directly without any other adapter?


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Wow, that was super-quick thanks.
> Does the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapter slot into Elise's 6AS7 power socket directly without any other adapter?


 

 That dual adapter will slot right into the 6AS7 socket. You don't need any other adapter.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> That dual adapter will slot right into the 6AS7 socket. You don't need any other adapter.


 
 You saved my day. There I was searching for a 6SN7 to 6AS7 adapter!
 Thanks again.
 I'm invoice #59, so a bit of time to go to prepare my tubes, adapters etc.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Sanity is a highly overrated concept *and fish are for eating *


 
  
 Agree re. the sanity thing pct... but boy, are you in the dog house re. things fishy - my better half treats 'em more like pets than *I* do, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> You made my day with your quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ones very much like, mordy...just as well they don't have teeth LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


			
				DecentLevi said:
			
		

> UT you did say however that you enjoy vinyl better than lossless out of your NAD 1050 DAC - I'll bet that could be reversed if you were to have a more TOTL DAC.


 
  
 Am beginning to think you might almost be right there, DL...good timing, as I've now received my new tube DAC, based on the ESS Sabre 9018...as per below...
  


untilthen said:


> Sure there is better for everything but you'll have to pay a much higher price but the NAD d1050 isn't exactly entry level. In fact I think it sounded great and this reviewer agrees.
> 
> http://headphone.guru/nad-d1050-review/
> 
> ...


 
  
 The war might just have started, UT...as per below...
  
  
 Well well folks, just as I thought my Sabre-clad Audiolab 8200CD would need really BIG $$$$ to improve upon, along comes this modestly priced custom job (UK) and blows it out of the water. Shan't repeat my previous words on its modest (minimalist) function spec, but I do still believe less _can_ often be _more_, lol!  And this is with just the stock RFT ECC85 tubes (unusual choice!)...I foresee even better results with a nice pair of NOS Mullards (Holland) inside.........
  
 The first pic showing how NOT to place it!...................
  

  
 GREAT sound already, with just a few hours on it...but later, when situated better and three hardwood cones underneath...*WOW!!!*
  

  
 Will give more details on the sound after a decent burn-in...but vinyl... WATCH OUT!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

@WB2016: thanks a great lot for your lengthy response and comparison. More than helpful! 
  
  
 Quote:


coldassault said:


> You all be damned! You just cost me $740!


 
  
 For clarification: I placed the order for a (stock) Elise yesterday... I hope to find as much joy and audio bliss as you guys do. In the meantime... the wait begins, and I'm thinking about "preparing" myself for the arrival. There's so much info in this thread... I'm a total tube newbie (this will be my first tube amp)... so very much in doubt which tubes to buy first to see what Elise can do after exploring the stock sound. 
  
 My source: Auralic Aries Extreme, into Auralic Vega (at the moment replaced by my Chord Mojo, but should most certainly be back from RMA within two months. It's already been 6 damn weeks now...). 
  
 Headphones: 
 Mostly HD800 S and LCD-3f. Also in the "rotation": HD650, DT880 pro (so 250 Ohm), SRH-840, Focal Spirit Professional. 
 Am I wrong to think that the latter two are too low impedance cans to really shine on Elise? They are mostly used on the go anyway. 
  
 I don't want to start some cable war sh** at all, but fact is I first of all need to look out for some single ended cables to connect Elise to my Vega. There's just so many options :s I'm kind of drowning in it. I'm hoping you guys can give me some really tangible advice - your open and direct way of sharing your experiences is what led me to order the Elise in the first place. Hence: any thoughts and recommendations on interconnects? 
  
 Big thanks in advance!


----------



## UntilThen

coldassault said:


>


 

 Congrats CA !!! You won't be disappointed.   All those headphones should work well with Elise. I don't know about the last 2. As for connection between my DAC and Elise, I'm just using a Monster RCA interconnect.


----------



## pctazhp

coldassault said:


>


 
 I don't want to start any cable wars either ))) Personally, I don't think cables make much, if any, difference. And that is not for lack of experience. In my audiophile days, I owned a number of very expensive, exotic cables. Nonetheless, just for safe measure, I am using a pair of RCA MA-3 Morrow Audio interconnects between my Bimby and Elise: http://morrowaudio.com/audiophile-and-home-theater/interconnects. I think they sound better than my modestly priced BlueJean cables, but that may be totally placebo. My brain not willing to admit it is just justifying the decision it made to buy the MA3's )))
  
 Morrow has frequent promotions and a liberal upgrade policy. You might want to check them out. I don't know if their cables will improve your system, but I'm virtually certain they won't detract from it. 
  
 Welcome to the club )))


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1 Please extend my heart-felt apologies to your lovely lady 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Very exciting news about your DAC. Will be fun to follow your burn-in process and the tube-rolling that I assume will also follow


----------



## RedBull

Invoice #61 here    this is the longest time of my life.


----------



## pctazhp

redbull said:


> Invoice #61 here    this is the longest time of my life.


 
 Great news and welcome to the club))) I promise you the wait will be worth it. 
  
 Seems like orders for the Elise have been jumping quite a bit recently!!!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1 Please extend my heart-felt apologies to your lovely lady
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I told my better half that you're really a very nice guy at heart...so you're forgiven, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but be careful LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Now how did you guess I may well be looking to adapting something in place of the ECC85?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._*don't tempt me...PLEASE!!! *_





...(shades of JV's "endless" do I detect!...).
  


redbull said:


> Invoice #61 here    this is the longest time of my life.


 
  
 We all share your pain, RB - just part of being "in the Club", lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And WELL DONE! @CoLdAsSauLt...yet another (happy?!) masochist - good to have you with the rest of us crazy guys!...CHEERS!...ps. re. cables - yes, a difficult call indeed. If you're handy with a soldering iron I would have said build your own pure silver cables (assuming a reasonably priced local source of 99.9% silver wire!). Otherwise, I personally have been very happy with a cable that's been around for quite a while now and is well regarded - the Rothwell "River" interconnect - at a reasonable price...here in the UK at least!  While waiting for your Elise, take a leisurely look around (a lot of good cables seem to appear regularly on ebay at very good prices)...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> The war might just have started, UT...as per below...


 
  
 H1, it won't be a war until someone comes on with an open reel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought it looks better in the 1st pic with Elise sitting on top. Looks very balanced. Awaiting further impressions when you're ready.


----------



## UntilThen

redbull said:


> Invoice #61 here    this is the longest time of my life.


 
 Wow 61 already. CF just had his #50 like last week !!!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> H1, it won't be a war until someone comes on with an open reel.


 
  
 Here's my entry into the battle:


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Here's my entry into the battle:


 
  
 LOL


----------



## TomNC

Just received Xu Ling dual EL3Ns adapters. But it seems impossible to put the tubes in as the fit appears too tight. Has anybody have any tips to make the process less stressful? I am afraid of using "brutal" forces. Thanks.


----------



## pctazhp

tomnc said:


> Just received Xu Ling dual EL3Ns adapters. But it seems impossible to put the tubes in as the fit appears too tight. Has anybody have any tips to make the process less stressful? I am afraid of using "brutal" forces. Thanks.


 
 Wait for @UntilThen. He can walk you through it.


----------



## UntilThen

tomnc said:


> Just received Xu Ling dual EL3Ns adapters. But it seems impossible to put the tubes in as the fit appears too tight. Has anybody have any tips to make the process less stressful? I am afraid of using "brutal" forces. Thanks.


 

 You can send it down under and I'll put it in for you. 
  
 What you can do is to press the contacts in the adapters. Press the middle part in but don't overdo it. You don't want to make it too loose or you'll have to make it spring out again, which is quite easy to do as well.
  
 Put some DeOxide on the contacts will help too. 
  
 That's it.


----------



## connieflyer

From page 683...Originally Posted by *UntilThen* 


  
  
 Glad you've master the art of renewing the adapters. 
  
 For anyone new to getting EL3N into the adapters the first time, here's how I do it easily. 
  
 Hold the EL3N tube near the base, with the top of the tube in the palm of your hand. With the other hand holding the adapter, align the tube's feet with the adapter's contact (make sure they are aligned) and push in firmly. It's not going to break. 
  
 My other hand isn't holding the adapter in the photo because I have to take the photo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It'll be a piece of cake after the 1st time. http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1628919/width/350/height/700/flags/LL


----------



## connieflyer

Was emailing Lukasz back and forth about the new headphone stand, I checked with him and he is fine with me putting out the info..Email contents below
  
 Sure, you can share with the forum guys, just to manage availability expectations we're talking late 2016 or later for the metallic ones.
 Regards
 Lukasz
 W dniu 11.05.2016 16:20, Don napisał(a):
 Sounds like a great idea, would like to wait for it but need a stand now so will take whatever you are offering first.  Should I keep this info to myself, or can I release it to the other Head-fi forum members?
  
 On 5/11/2016 3:17 AM, Feliks Audio wrote:
 Hehe indeed!
 Kid you not, we are considering a new technology of liquid metal paint that can create impression of the stand being made from copper, silver, gold or platinium. It's something we're testing so won't be available anytime soon.
 Have a great day
 Lukasz
 W dniu 11.05.2016 02:42, Don napisał(a):
 Thought you might have thought this out, good luck with the new product.  I would ask for one in solid Platinum, but could not afford the shipping!
  
 On 5/10/2016 3:36 AM, Feliks Audio wrote:
 Hi Don
 Sorry for late reply and thanks for feedback. For the moment we have a big batch of just one type of wood. Depending on how successful the product is we may extend it to other woods (including exotics) as special orders, of course the price will be appropriately higher. 
 Regards
 Lukasz
 W dniu 06.05.2016 13:51, Don napisał(a):
 I was wondering if you had thought of offering a few different types of wood, for the headphone stands.  Black Walnut cost more but would also command a higher sale price.  Just my thoughts,  thanks Don


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 I am recuperating from AIWS - Acute Internet Withdrawal Syndrome. Some local thingamaying server broke down, and although I am using the largest internet provider in the US, my luck has it that there is a strike of the workers and they have to use office personnel to go out in the field and fix things.
  
 Well, after almost 24 hours I am on line again. Phew! Slowly regaining my bearings...
  
 Hi TomNC,
  
 I know the feeling but rest assured - nobody has reported breaking a EL3N tube yet by trying to insert it. The first thing to do is to note the spacing of the paddle feet - four close together on the bottom of the socket and four with more space between them on the upper half.
  
 Align the tube properly. Hold the socket in your hand and then push straight down with the palm of your other hand. You will hear and feel a prominent click when the tube is seated.
  
 The first time it is harder to get in the tube - gets easier after you remove it and put it back in.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## TomNC

Thanks, gentlemen. Wish I had read all of your instructions a moment earlier. I managed to use some jeweler's tools to push those contacts back a little (not a good idea as I overdid with some) and pushed the tubes in. They lit up when I turned on the amp but the music sound from the amp was too low. I thought something was very wrong and turned off the amp quickly. Later I found that I might  not insert the 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter deep enough when I decided to use my cheap Grado SR60 to test the tubes. Anyway I felt I had enough for one evening and now am listening to a Norah Jones CD with Tung Sol 7236 tubes for relaxation.
  
 It is interesting that two EL3Ns continued to emit cracking sound minutes after I took them off the amp. But the fact that all the tubes lit up indicates that all the contacts were all right, doesn't it? Anyone can confirm this? Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Tom, if the tubes lit up then the contacts good but loose contacts can feedback with distortions. How many tubes are you using in your amp? Are you using them as drivers or powers? Or both?
  
 A couple of pages back, I show how you can get those contacts to pop out again using a small flat screw driver. Do this if you find those contacts too loose.


----------



## JazzVinyl

tomnc said:


> It is interesting that two EL3Ns continued to emit cracking sound minutes after I took them off the amp. But the fact that all the tubes lit up indicates that all the contacts were all right, doesn't it? Anyone can confirm this? Thanks.




Hello Tom...

Lighting up means you have good contact with the heater pins in the adapter. The tubes go in at an angle (as I am sure you now know). Might need to undo your mod to the socket connectors if you think you might not have good contact all the way around.

I am enjoying some vinyl tonight, myself...Jean Michel Jarre:



[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lTgst1Ocm6g [/VIDEO]



Cheers to the Lucky Ones...




.


----------



## TomNC

UT, thanks for suggestions. Four tubes (2 each channel) are used as power tubes. My amp uses 4 Telefunken EF800/80 tubes as drivers.
  
 I will have to read what you did to recover some of the contacts I pushed too far back. But little space is available for maneuvers. unfortunately I have already broken little pieces of plastic and will have to super careful not to make more damages.


----------



## TomNC

Thanks, JV. I think I have to do some adjustments to some of the contacts.


----------



## mordy

Hi TomNC,
  
 Not to worry - you will get everything right and everything sorted out. Just a little patience and a little trial and error, and Elise will sing......


----------



## UntilThen

When you get a turntable you start buying records. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Here's Jeff Lynne's ELO - Alone in the Universe.


----------



## UntilThen

@WB2016 can you bring home one of this bundle from the show.


----------



## Solarium

Now that I'm a firm believer of tubes and stunned by the Crack w/ speedball with the TS5998... I'm very curious about the the Elise. I love the looks (the biggest problem with the Crack is that it's something that I don't want other people to see), and having more details and larger 3D soundstage than the Crack is also something I would like. The problem is that it requires additional investments into more tubes than Crack, and these can add up quickly. If I were to "upgrade" to the Elise, how will it run using stock tubes, vs the Crack w/ speedball using TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A? Also, there's not a whole lot of these being sold used, I wonder if there's anywhere else to buy it besides the official website.


----------



## UntilThen

solarium said:


> Now that I'm a firm believer of tubes and stunned by the Crack w/ speedball with the TS5998... I'm very curious about the the Elise. I love the looks (the biggest problem with the Crack is that it's something that I don't want other people to see), and having more details and larger 3D soundstage than the Crack is also something I would like. The problem is that it requires additional investments into more tubes than Crack, and these can add up quickly. If I were to "upgrade" to the Elise, how will it run using stock tubes, vs the Crack w/ speedball using TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A? Also, there's not a whole lot of these being sold used, I wonder if there's anywhere else to buy it besides the official website.


 

 Hello Solarium and welcome to Elise thread. 
  
 This is a review of the 2 tube amps. post #220  Might not be the tubes you're particularly looking for but will give you an idea. A pair of TS5998 is pretty amazing on Elise btw.
  
 You can only buy Elise from Feliks Audio unless someone is selling theirs, which doesn't happen often.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, TS-5998 tubes work great in Elise?  I think this might have just sold me on the Elise


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> @WB2016 can you bring home one of this bundle from the show.




 


I was happy to get a HD650 for a relative minor contribution of positively commenting on the Wilson Nagra setup (incognito but honestly) that probably will lead to a sale. 300€ for a 60K+++ sale.... I consider myself lucky, anything Nagra or Wilson would have been more welcome. 

CF sent me a really nice link of photos of the High End that will show you how much there was. Missed some of it myself, but this is pure high end porn Art for eyes and ears. 

CF sent me a link to some really nice pics. Hope he doesn't mind, but it gives a good impression of the fair and what kind of industry audiophile addiction and showing off will create. 

http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?10531-2016

One of the best TT I heard was the Chronos, and of course if you are a neutrality freak and want best buildquality, the SME 30 They build most of the tonearms for clearaudio, etc. Not necessarily a good place to evaluate new TT the High End because it is quite loud, but in the show rooms you can get a good idea. 

I instead am often just happy with the Rega PR3 modded, or would be with the PR8 which is luckily somewhat discounted, and might end up mine, tbd. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## connieflyer

Don't mind at all, I thought the turntables were absolutely amazing. Great you got 650's for your opinion,usually if I offer mine,someone smacks me!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> @WB2016
> can you bring home one of this bundle from the show.





LOL

"Endless" is the amount of money you can spend on a turntable.

All the talk of the Papst motors etc...they have taken the stethoscope to the deck, the fancy motors are an attempt to solve what they heard


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @UntilThen, TS-5998 tubes work great in Elise?  I think this might have just sold me on the Elise


 

 Huh Dave, they are like honey to a bear. Think double barrel shot guns and double barrel cannons Crack. If that is not enough, you further add C3G and EL3N. You'll really be in dire straits if you don't get Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL
> 
> "Endless" is the amount of money you can spend on a turntable.
> 
> All the talk of the Papst motors etc...they have taken the stethoscope to the deck, the fancy motors are an attempt to solve what they heard


 

 I don't want to spend endlessly on a turntable but I'm playing it endlessly now. Has anyone smoked their TT from over playing it? I'm like a kid with a new toy. Really love the automatic features and that vinyl sound. Hard to describe it but it's different and addictive.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I don't want to spend endlessly on a turntable but I'm playing it endlessly now. Has anyone smoked their TT from over playing it? I'm like a kid with a new toy. Really love the automatic features and that vinyl sound. Hard to describe it but it's different and addictive.




I think I did wear out a Garrard Zero 100c, decades ago 

You posted a video a while back saying the storage media (vinyl or digital) made no difference.

You can clearly hear now, that it most certainly DOES make a difference. 

Not converting analog to digital, and then having to convert digital back to analog...is not equivalent to pure analog all the way...

You should day trade stocks to make LOTS of $$$, and buy the 85,000 Euro table seen in the latest video 

Do it NOW.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> I think I did wear out a Garrard Zero 100c, decades ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well if there is a collectible and coolness aspect/art such as the last turntable, but there is also real apex solutions that approaches the best sound quite close to r2r tapes is the Chronos with new motor. Best at least that I heard and I heard a few.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frL6ivwCZKE

It is (IMO and a lot of others) considered a steal in the world of untra highend turntables costing around 40K€ but in sound terms, especially liveliness, beats all of the top dogs in the 100-160K categories.

 If you like turny things you also get double By the way the version above with stand is a "tad" more

Fully hung suspended turntable with counter spinning platters, dual motors and clocks, yummy, basically two tts

There is showing off in high end, e.g. clearaudio reference at 105K without tonearm and then there is crazy innovation that actually gets you better sound and not just quietness due to mass. All this is insane, but even in insanity there is value Oh don't even think of auditioning without an earcleaning at the doctors a week before

Luckily the workmanship of Kronos is improving. Imagine spending that money and having glue marks or shoddy edges This was an issue a few years ago, very prototypey, but now consistent and high end. 

If you want to see crazy good manufacturing and what that entails take a look at the factory tour at SME, those guys know about build quality, makes some swiss watches take notice. Fascinating what steps they take and happy that top British manufacturing is still alive.
Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8tbyVRsrKM
Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tbv2WEi8ao
Part3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2xQkexHT-M

Thought I'd share if you guys are playing around (at least mentally) with the big dogs

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

Well tt prices tend to have a logical price/sound limit. They will not approach TOTL R2R decks such as the UHA Phase 12 which costs about 20K$. You won't get better than master tapes because you will only get to be as good as your source and the best source is master tapes. All (good) vinyl and Cd/SACds are made from master tapes so if perfectly or approaching perfectly will not equal a proper r2r. Unfortunately the tapes are expensive ca. $300 for good ones, so with 80 tapes you can buy a tapedeck. Also it is quite a hassle. However there is a limit to what you can squeeze out of vinyl and most of it becomes a defying of what is possible instead of what sounds best. 

Anything over $50K becomes really hard to justify compared to r2r, even if you have a lot of vinyl. Then it becomes "art" appreciation or showing off/having something to talk about/having something better than the jonses/not leaving anything wife who wants to divorce you

All my opinions, but why I believe there is a reasonable craziness and lets just spend money craziness. 

Speakers and amps do become infinite, well at least to the around million GBP range, in prices, not necessarily better but approaching some abstract perfection and we need to justify all the research money we spent 

Cheers
WB


----------



## connieflyer

I decided that 50K was my limit too, just couldn't reach it.  And with the power grid the way it is, I figured this might do....
  
  
  
 
  
  
 Anyone have a spare nail I can use for a stylus?


----------



## UntilThen

JV and WB, all those gears are very nice and something you drool over when you go to motor shows but I've an affordable and good sounding DAC and TT from my wife !!! Now that is priceless. Oh well at least I bought Elise myself.... plus all the tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I just discovered that Audirvana Plus has integration with Tidal. Hallelujah. I knew there's a reason I paid for Audirvana license. 
  
 So let me take you back to present day. To affordable and amazing sounding head fi... and you're alone in the universe when listening to this.


----------



## UntilThen

Now for Leonard Cohen's fan, try the Future album on Tidal. @aqsw  !!!  Have you recovered?


----------



## pctazhp

Hey guys. I'm loving all the talk about Monopoly Money turntables)) Brings back fond memories of my - budget, entry level 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - Basis 2500, Graham tonearm and Koetsu Rosewood - among others that came and went within my man-cave ))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Hey guys. I'm loving all the talk about Monopoly Money turntables)) Brings back fond memories of my - budget, entry level
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You mean something like this? 
  
 http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/basis2800.htm
  
 I envy your previous man-cave. Why did you come to present day civilization?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You mean something like this?
> 
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/basis2800.htm
> 
> I envy your previous man-cave. Why did you come to present day civilization?


 
 It was the non-vacuum version)) It really was a beauty, wasn't it???
  
 I came back so I could join the Elise club


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> It was the non-vacuum version)) It really was a beauty, wasn't it???
> 
> I came back so I could join the Elise club


 

 It's beautiful and joining the Elise club is beautiful too.


----------



## connieflyer

UT, just got these...2pcs 6N13S Vintage Tube, Doube Triode NOS Svetlana 6AS7G, ECC230, 6H13C year '74 that were all of $9.00 US.  Shippping from LIthuania was only $8.99 so pretty cheap, they are in fact new tubes.  The first half hour there was noise and a little hum, just let them cook for 5 hours and they are now very silent.   Just like the Thomson 6080's they really heat up Elise.  Not hot just quite warm. Tried them with a pair of EL3N's seemed a little too polite. Last hour or two have a pair of Siemens C3G's in with them, still warm but the vocals are a little better.  Upper range is a little limited and soundstage is narrow, but bass is really nice.  One thing I never liked, was equipment that ran hot when not necessary. Will run these the rest of the night, then switch back to my 6 pack. So far the 6 El3N's sound the best to me. Got a new pair of EL3N's on the way from Peter.  Reading about your adventure with the TT is making me want to start going through all those discs in strorage, get one of the old tables up to par and go at again.  You are evil, I was quite content, now I don't know, so many discs to play.


----------



## TomNC

connieflyer said:


> UT, just got these...2pcs 6N13S Vintage Tube, Doube Triode NOS Svetlana 6AS7G, ECC230, 6H13C year '74 that were all of $9.00 US.  Shippping from LIthuania was only $8.99 so pretty cheap, they are in fact new tubes.  The first half hour there was noise and a little hum, just let them cook for 5 hours and they are now very silent.   Just like the Thomson 6080's they really heat up Elise.  Not hot just quite warm. Tried them with a pair of EL3N's seemed a little too polite. Last hour or two have a pair of Siemens C3G's in with them, still warm but the vocals are a little better.  Upper range is a little limited and soundstage is narrow, but bass is really nice.  One thing I never liked, was equipment that ran hot when not necessary. Will run these the rest of the night, then switch back to my 6 pack. So far the 6 El3N's sound the best to me. Got a new pair of EL3N's on the way from Peter.  Reading about your adventure with the TT is making me want to start going through all those discs in strorage, get one of the old tables up to par and go at again.  You are evil, I was quite content, now I don't know, so many discs to play.




These Russian 6as7gs sound warm with my amp too. Relatively speaking, they are not as resolving as other tubes I have. The bass from these tubes tend to be one-note sounding. But overall their sound is non-offensive, 70 out of 100 scores in my book with GEC 6as7gs at 95.


----------



## UntilThen

You guys describe the Svetlana power tube sound well. Can't complain for that price. 

What is your TT CF? Did you pull out a Linn Sondek?


----------



## connieflyer

No such luck on that TT!  However, if you ever want a rest from the TT I have a very nice page for you to visit, Andre Heuvelman  After Silence on trumpet, down the page are some high quality samples
  
http://www.soundliaison.com/studio-masters/1-after-silence-all
  
 Here is a youtube to sample it..


----------



## connieflyer

Another nice song if you like trumpet


----------



## pctazhp

A little change of pace:


----------



## UntilThen

You need Dami Im 

http://www.womansday.com.au/celebrity/australian-celebrities/dami-ims-thanks-fans-after-eurovision-success-15375

Go Dami !!!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA16qQA4ik0[/VIDEO]


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Hey guys. I'm loving all the talk about Monopoly Money turntables)) Brings back fond memories of my - budget, entry level
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


That's a nice deck, but it's like having a classic car, fun, but we change and are hopefully also obsessed in other parts of our life. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## mordy

serendipitously  in a serendipitous manner; fortunately; by lucky chance.
  
 Was able to find why my Thorens TT was making loud hum, serendipitosly. Was moving around the patch cord from the TT to try MC/MM RCA jacks on my ss preamp, and suddenly the hum stopped, and came back.
  
 I realized that one RCA plug has a loose wire, and by jiggling the wire I am able to keep it in a position that the hum goes away. Will have to replace the patch cord which means opening up the TT....
  
 Another question: Why did the previous owner have two TTs? Could one be for LPs and one for 78s? The Thorens, which is capable of playing 78RPM records, has a  beige Grado cartridge that says MF 3 on it. Does anybody know what it is?
  
 Also, my Tandberg preamp has two switches to load the MM cartridge.  One toggle switch is marked Ohm 100K, 47K and 33K. The other switch is marked PF 20, 120 and 350. What am I supposed to use?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, it won't be a war until someone comes on with an open reel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...agree it *looks* better, but below _*sounds*_ much better (sometimes it appears it's better to not have two lots of tube equipment right next to each other, plus the VERY solid/heavy Vincent on top (isolated by glass and 3-cone treatment, with the same underneath the DAC), which helps reduce any kind of spurious vibration?...).
  
 Now then, all this talk of TTs has prompted me to post my impressions of this new Tube DAC of mine a little earlier than anticipated! (but also because even without full burn-in time, I am in total awe of the results). AND, I would like to reassure those into digital NOT to feel hard done by, compared to vinyl!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I have already spoken _ad nauseum_ about the sonic attributes of my own system, so I won't go into full length description of what I am getting now (I hear sighs of relief already, lol!). But I will just remind folks of what this new DAC was up against - a very well-regarded Audiolab 8200CD housing the same(?!!) ESS Sabre 9018 DAC (I question, simply because of the difference, lol!).
  
 Basically, from a system that I am confident was already punching WAY above its weight (and to a level that I thought was pushing Elise's limits), it is now in yet another league entirely...something I was not at all anticipating, despite my hopes for _some_ improvement at least. At this point, I agree totally with @DecentLevi (and many others too, I suspect) - moving into higher DAC territory changes the ball game dramatically...assuming headphones that can do justice, that is!
  
 Again in essence, every area I have previously sung Elise's praises - _in my system_ - is raised yet another notch (if not more!). In addition, one of the more pronounced differences is in the degree of harmonics rendering...most noticeable in acoustic string instruments (metal-stringed guitar in particular) - without any rise in disagreeable intermodulation distortion. This brings a whole new dimension to the overall sound...and a very seductive one too!  Handling of dynamics is also even more impressive, with exquisite PRaT and control (bass and drum runs are beautifully precise and clear).
  
 Another bonus over the Audiolab's Sabre implementation is that the use of tubes as output stage - as opposed to the usual op-amp - helps smooth the Sabre's (in)famous treble, without having to resort to the usual 'filtering' methods used by many other DACs....ie. the chip's purity is not compromised in any way at all (so long as the tube used is perfectly 'neutral', of course!). And, to my surprise, the humble (and rarely heard of) ECC85 these guys have chosen seems to be just perfect for the job...no apparent coloration at all. And this is with the low cost East German RFT basic tube...I suspect the better quality RFT version (ECC865 with gold pins) or the Mullards may well be even better!
  
 There is just one caveat...I have a strong feeling that the EL3Ns are also helping to keep the Sabre's treble in check, because it is now the equal of the mighty C3g'S' treble, but much better integrated with the rest of the frequency range...something I never personally expected (nor thought _possible, lol!!_). Just  this quality alone is worth the asking price IMHO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, in summary, I will just say I would now happily (and confidently) pitch my set-up against *any* vinyl-based system _*anywhere near*_ this price point! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
 ps. I am quite sure that, just as with Feliks-Audio, the small semi-bespoke outfit selling these tube DACs (plus specialist cables and soon a passive pre-amp) is managing to punch WAY above its weight in a very competitive market.... and as with FA, I gain extra pleasure from patronising the 'small guy'...especially when they can kick *ss big time, lol!!
  
 I make no apologies for posting this link once again....Mykhailo I place in the same category as Lukasz............http://www.malbru-cables.com/ 
 (Soon to be renamed "MalegaAudio").
  
 CHEERS!....and... HAPPY LISTENING!
 CJ


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> serendipitously
> 
> 
> in a serendipitous manner; fortunately; by lucky chance.
> ...



 


The choice between 47k and 100k Ohms is for loading, MMs and HOMCs are loaded at 47k and LOMCs are loaded at 100 Ohms. 33K is a bit unusual, try what sounds best. 

capacitor settings will mostly affect the high freqs, start low and play around. The capacitance loading switches on pre-amplifiers are
additional capacitance - zero means zero additional capacitance not zero input capacitance There should be a guide, reference online regarding the type of cartridge you use. Some will only take 20PF. So start low, no need to damage cartridges.

Hope that helps.
WB


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...agree it *looks* better, but below _*sounds*_ much better (sometimes it appears it's better to not have two lots of tube equipment right next to each other, plus the VERY solid/heavy Vincent on top (isolated by glass and 3-cone treatment, with the same underneath the DAC), which helps reduce any kind of spurious vibration?...).
> 
> Now then, all this talk of TTs has prompted me to post my impressions of this new Tube DAC of mine a little earlier than anticipated! (but also because even without full burn-in time, I am in total awe of the results). AND, I would like to reassure those into digital NOT to feel hard done by, compared to vinyl!!
> 
> ...



 


Yeah no way you will get anywhere near a good dac and streaming vs vinyl in terms of soundquality for less than GBP 800 new. (Assuming that is what you roughly paid). However used you can get more from vinyl at that price point, but it will be really tricky with cartridge and phono preamp, without a existing wallmount. But it comes down to sound signature. If you try some of the tube phonopreamps of high quality, well you do get somewhat close with a good tube dac, but it misses some of the excitment, e.g. a EAR 868. But its all a compromise and in the end the new generation of dacs with streaming is also for me the go to and sound incredible. There is just something to vinyl that analog something. A tube dac and amp will get you pretty damn close though

For those on a budget, here in the German speaking world, they have CDs that accompany Stereoplay or Audio hifi magazines, that take TOTLtt setups such as the 907 Thorens playing vinyl in a true highend setup and record it on vinyl, usually with good tube phonopreamps, and you get 90% of the highend vinyl setup sound and soundstage on a CD, e.g. the CD included in the most recent Stereoplay for the High End, Vinyl Classics 3. 

Now when you have even a decent CD player and use the external DAC this will get you very close to the vinyl heaven, especially with tube dacs. 
Something to think about. Just listening to this CD, nicely done, and you get BELAFONTE AT CARNEGIE HALL!!!, Sinatra, Beach Boys, etc on a 30K+ setup for 6Euros and a hifi magazine. Almost thought it was a gimick, if you think what those LPS cost by themselves...

For me that is a nice compromise or gateway drug for those wanting to experience vinyl.

Cheers
WB


----------



## TomNC

Hi, H1,
  
     Thanks for sharing info on the tube DAC. This might be exactly the type of DAC I want next. But it is a tough decision to make without audition, among all the five chip options, all of which seem quite good. I would like to have a smooth, liquid, *non-fatiguing*, and neutral with a touch of warmth (sweetness) sound signature with all the other goodnesses (clarity, speed, expansive soundstage and separation, and lastly, good bass).
  
     With GEC 6as7gs as main tubes on my amp and HD800 (modded, but can still be bright with some recordings), I don't want any excessive brightness from the DAC. My current DAC, VEGA, while good at many things, can be bright and analytic with some sources.
  
     Do you or someone else have any insights into which chip might be a better fit to my need? I can rule out the TDA1541 ("thick and rich" sound) might not be good for a lot of female vocals and violin pieces I often listen to. Thanks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> serendipitously
> 
> 
> in a serendipitous manner; fortunately; by lucky chance.
> ...




Hello Mordy!

Glad you found the faulty RCA and can remedy.

The switches in the preamp...will depend on the cartridge specs for 100k/47k/33k. 47k ohms is the most often used, so I would start there.

The other switch: 20/120/320 PF is for switching capacitors of values 20, 120 or 320 *P*ico *F*arads. Just use whichever setting sounds the best to you. Will mostly affect the treble.

Two tables were not uncommon back in the day. One for upstairs, one for downstairs. I still have two running 

I would be careful about spinning 78's with high end cartridges. The cantilever on MC cartridges (the little rod that holds the diamond) are very fragile and non user replaceable. Since 78's spin a lot faster, it's much easier to wreck the delicate cantilever,

Better idea would be a $40.00 MM Audio Technica cart (with replaceable stylus/cantilever) for any table intended, to spin 78's.

Cheers and have fun!!!


----------



## mordy

WB2016 and JV,
  
 Thanks for clarifying what the switches are meant for. Although I have the factory manual, it just shows the location of the switches without any comments.


----------



## UntilThen

On the fifth day, UT is still playing his records. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats H1. Seems like you've found a gem there in that tube DAC.
  
 I'd say try every source at your disposal, whether analogue or digital. If there's a downside to Elise, it's taking too much of my time listening to music.


----------



## connieflyer

Picked up a PS Audio Nuwave Dac from a fellow head-fier, and so far sounds great. Changed out the 6n13s for the Thompson-cf 6080's and the Siemens C3G, and with the senn's 800, this is an improvement over my other Dac. Going to use this tonite and try the 6 pack El3n''s tomorrow and see what that brings.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Better idea would be a $40.00 MM Audio Technica cart (with replaceable stylus/cantilever) for any table intended, to spin 78's.


 
 JV, what model would that be? I was thinking of a Ortofon 2M Red as a replacement further down the track.  Nothing too expensive. Good idea?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Picked up a PS Audio Nuwave Dac from a fellow head-fier, and so far sounds great. Changed out the 6n13s for the Thompson-cf 6080's and the Siemens C3G, and with the senn's 800, this is an improvement over my other Dac. Going to use this tonite and try the 6 pack El3n''s tomorrow and see what that brings.


 

 Interesting CF !!! I thought you were going for the Geek Pulse X but this has good reviews too. I think you'll enjoy your music and as one review says, you'll get 'very satisfying musical experience'.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> JV, what model would that be? I was thinking of a Ortofon 2M Red as a replacement further down the track.  Nothing too expensive. Good idea?




I have had good luck with Ortofon carts. Good performance for the price.

Suggested for Mordy to play 78's is the AT95E, inexpensive and good sounding. Can upgrade it by buying a more expensive stylus. 

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-Magnet-Phono-Cartridge-AT95E/dp/B004NRVUMI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463189915&sr=8-1&keywords=audio+technica+at95e+cartridge

I believe Ortofons were that way too...same cart used on lots of models, and the more spent, the more exotic the diamond cut on the stylus...

What came with your DP-300f....?


----------



## connieflyer

A nice guitar selection for  you from my former Boss's son's group.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> What came with your DP-300f....?


 
 I believe the stock cartridge is Audio Technica AT3600. Only list what the replacement stylus is on the manual. It's the DSN-85.


----------



## connieflyer

This one?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-DSN-85-Replacement-Stylus-Cartridge-for-DP-300F-PCL-310-Original-Brand-New-/111588500139?rmvSB=true
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=DP-300F+PCL-310+&_sacat=0


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I believe the stock cartridge is Audio Technica AT3600. Only list what the replacement stylus is on the manual. It's the DSN-85.




Yes, Interesting that the cart is not actually specified. 

If you want to upgrade, I would suggest the Denon DL-110, see if you can locate one at the old price of 150. They recently upped the price to 299...

I know where some are for the old price, if interested.. The DL-110 is a High Output moving coil, you will notice the difference in SQ....




.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, Interesting that the cart is not actually specified.
> 
> If you want to upgrade, I would suggest the Denon DL-110, see if you can locate one at the old price of 150. They recently upped the price to 299...
> 
> ...


 
 I agree that in general moving coil is a definite leap in sound quality.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, Interesting that the cart is not actually specified.
> 
> If you want to upgrade, I would suggest the Denon DL-110, see if you can locate one at the old price of 150. They recently upped the price to 299...
> 
> ...


 

 Going to the dark side means spending more money. 
  
 This from Hong Kong seems the cheapest. 
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Denon-DL-110-High-Output-MC-Cartridge-100-Denon-Japan-made-100-Brand-New/181911706086?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Dab98c8bda4ad46c3b0182bfc6a900a5e%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D111736138464
  
 Do I need to change anything to use MC cartridge? This is like starting new and learning everything from scratch. 
  
 Probably change the cartridge later. Just bought another 3 LPs.
  
 Mike Goldfields - Tubular Bells 
 Carole King - Tapestry
 Dire Straits - Making Movies
  
 Buying LPs is more addictive than buying tubes !!! 
  
 Man the Tapestry album sounds good.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Do I need to change anything to use MC cartridge? This is like starting new and learning everything from scratch.


 
 I don't think you need to change anything. Here's some information on the cartridge: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL-110-Cartridge?sc=2&category=369
  
 I'm sure JV can tell you for sure.


----------



## TomNC

Unfortunately, it seems my experimentation with EL3Ns tubes has to end now. Although all four tubes lit up, the music sounded too low while the humming noise too loud, unlike any other power tubes I have had with my tube. Sine both channels sounded the same, I suppose it is unlikely a contact problem. I think these tubes, while magical with the Elise, are not for my amp. But the dual (Sylvania) 6BL7s work quite well with my amp.
  
 If any Elise user is interested in taking over the EL3Ns for a bargain price, please PM me. You will get 5 NOS tubes for a reduced price of 4 plus the two dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapters (Xu Ling) for free (they are not perfect any more since I gently touched the pins when I tried to insert the tubes; I believe they are in good working condition).
  
 With this, my survey with some of the 6as7g/6080 tubes for my amp has come to a temporary end. The following are my brief impressions which might be relevant to Elise users. I still expect some opportunity to audition the Elise since I have read so much about it.
  
 (Stock) CF 6080 (80 out of 100 scores): overall good, balanced sound, especially for its modest price.
  
 CV2523 (95): all-around excellent performance. Neutral sound with a touch of sweetness. Very resolving and meanwhile producing rich and pleasant harmonics/timbre. (Thanks to H1 for recommending them).
  
 Tung Sol 7236 (90): warmer but not excessively so. Still resolving with good speed. When there is a tendency to experience some brightness with CV2523s and HD800, the 7236s come to rescue. But even with HD650, these tubes are not too warm or slow. They are my 2nd favorite.
  
 2X6BL7 (85): Good presence of bass. Very good separation between sounds. Some special effects when listening to single vocals as if the singers are singing to myself alone. But the gain is still low relative to 6as7gs and 6080s. (Thank mordy for recommending them to me).
  
 RCA 6as7g (82): Clear and crisp sound, but nothing stands out.
  
 Russia 6H5C (70): Warm and darkish sound. Less resolving than other tubes I have. But overall non-offensive.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I don't think you need to change anything. Here's some information on the cartridge: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL-110-Cartridge?sc=2&category=369
> 
> I'm sure JV can tell you for sure.


 

 That's quite some amazing reviews of that cartridge. 
 It does seem that it's just a straight replacement. Some guy did that in audio karma and found it to be a big improvement.
  
@TomNC I find that using EL3Ns as power tubes is best when using EL3Ns as drivers as well. Otherwise the gain is lower. Well a shame it has loud hum in your amp.
  
 Meanwhile that Carole King's album is really lovely. This song is featured in that album. 1971 - down memory lane again.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Gerry Goffin and Carole King.wrote "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" and Carol's version is a classic. But for me, that song will always belong to  The Shirelles from 1960 when I was a Sophomore in high school))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. Gerry Goffin and Carole King.wrote "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" and Carol's version is a classic. But for me, that song will always belong to  The Shirelles from 1960 when I was a Sophomore in high school))


 
 This version is very good !!! You must have a great time in high school with your first girl crush.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This version is very good !!! You must have a great time in high school with your first girl crush.


 
 Go Central High Bobcats )))


----------



## WB2016

tomnc said:


> Unfortunately, it seems my experimentation with EL3Ns tubes has to end now. Although all four tubes lit up, the music sounded too low while the humming noise too loud, unlike any other power tubes I have had with my tube. Sine both channels sounded the same, I suppose it is unlikely a contact problem. I think these tubes, while magical with the Elise, are not for my amp. But the dual (Sylvania) 6BL7s work quite well with my amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well before you sell them check out that they are warm and burnt in. I leave the amp on with headphones when I sleep, but under 150hrs of burn in the EL3Ns cause quite a bit of noise. Also they should have warmed up about an hour before playing. I like them best after about 4hrs. 

You will likely find someone quickly for the tubes. 

From your post its not clear if you use an Elise, and why you have 5? One extra spare? Dual powers also sound much better, because you can run them triode at less total load. In my setup the CD or Dac already add a good amount of volume so I barely go above 9-10am on the volume dial. YMMV. 

Take Care
WB


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi UT...agree it *looks* better, but below _*sounds*_ much better (sometimes it appears it's better to not have two lots of tube equipment right next to each other, plus the VERY solid/heavy Vincent on top (isolated by glass and 3-cone treatment, with the same underneath the DAC), which helps reduce any kind of spurious vibration?...).
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your input WB....wouldn't you say this is even more remarkable for just *£600* (GBP) (+ £7 shipping here in UK!), 2 yrs warranty, and 30-day home trial?...pretty impressive IMHO!
  
 And throw in the convenience; flexibilty; ease of use, availability of digital content (not to mention a continually increasing supply of outstanding hi-res content) etc.etc. and this is truly the icing on the cake, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


tomnc said:


> Hi, H1,
> 
> Thanks for sharing info on the tube DAC. This might be exactly the type of DAC I want next. But it is a tough decision to make without audition, among all the five chip options, all of which seem quite good. I would like to have a smooth, liquid, *non-fatiguing*, and neutral with a touch of warmth (sweetness) sound signature with all the other goodnesses (clarity, speed, expansive soundstage and separation, and lastly, good bass).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Tom...tough decision indeed - yet again, lol! And a difficult one to answer...the Sabre may not be the best for everyone, especially if hyper-sensitive to treble and/or the amp's tubes tend towards accentuating the top. All I can say is that in my Elise, with EL3Ns driving the GEC CV2523s (I personally give them more like 98%!!) and T1 cans, the sound is truly sublime from this DAC's implementation of said chip.
 The only other chip I've heard is the Wolfson in my OPPO BDP103, which - for me - is much too 'polite' (flat even!)...I much prefer the sheer sparkle and energy of the Sabre 9018 - the FULL version that is...my experience of the K2M version, even when doubled up as in the ibasso D90, left me very disappointed indeed compared to the 'proper' 9018...(after all, how can a stripped down version - ie. 2 cores instead of 8 - come anywhere near lol?!!).
  
 And so I would suggest your best option may well be to contact Mykhailo direct on his site...I'm sure he would be a good source of the info you seek...GOOD LUCK!
  
 ps Sorry to hear the EL3Ns don't work for you as powers in your amp....answer?...*GO GET AN ELISE!!...*








...CHEERS!....


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Going to the dark side means spending more money.
> 
> This from Hong Kong seems the cheapest.
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Denon-DL-110-High-Output-MC-Cartridge-100-Denon-Japan-made-100-Brand-New/181911706086?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Dab98c8bda4ad46c3b0182bfc6a900a5e%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D111736138464
> ...



 


Ah its much worse with cartridges than with tubes. Wait till you go to some audiophile parties that do cartridge rolling, or why do you think that they have tts with several arms They all sound slightly or even massively different. The Denon DL 110 is a good alrounder. Grados have something that they do for the midrange that is lovely with tubes. Also the Nagoaka cartridges usually punch much above their weight class. Ortofons through their partnering with Project have kept the prices reasonable and are quite resolving. 

These are broad overstatements but will give you an idea, MC is nice, if you preamp is decent and has the options. The more you amplify the better the quality of the amplification tends to have to be. HOMC on a budget is a nice compromise IMO for a lot of applications.

Have fun, and use the opportunity to make some friends who have vinyl and listen to the cartridges. Sometimes some shows will do auditioning of cartridges on the same system which is really the only way to find the right one and give you a feeling of what they do. 

Take Care
WB


----------



## WB2016

wb2016 said:


> tomnc said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, it seems my experimentation with EL3Ns tubes has to end now. Although all four tubes lit up, the music sounded too low while the humming noise too loud, unlike any other power tubes I have had with my tube. Sine both channels sounded the same, I suppose it is unlikely a contact problem. I think these tubes, while magical with the Elise, are not for my amp. But the dual (Sylvania) 6BL7s work quite well with my amp.
> ...



 


Ah just read you are not running that on an Elise, yeah as with the EL series they will show off what is underneath. Used in recording industry because of the consistency and longevity and sound but that is because it amplifies the gear. Sorry to hear that it did not work out for you and the above comments might be interesting but may not fix your problem. But you came to the right thread to sell the EL3Ns and the Elise boys (and girls???) will likely quickly take them off your hand. Somewhat good news for those worried about the EL3N supplies. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for your input WB....wouldn't you say this is even more remarkable for just *£600* (GBP) (+ £7 shipping here in UK!), 2 yrs warranty, and 30-day home trial?...pretty impressive IMHO!
> 
> And throw in the convenience; flexibilty; ease of use, availability of digital content (not to mention a continually increasing supply of outstanding hi-res content) etc.etc. and this is truly the icing on the cake, lol!
> 
> ...



 


Yeah I don't want to get into a discussion on DACs, sabres are really improving these last years and are cheap. I used to be a 1704 fan but the chips are getting ridiculously expensive, but have something that is more analnogy and the treble tends to be more natural. Sabre especially with tubes or well implemented can take care of that. Currently 800€ is about the sweetspot in terms of peak before there is a massive lowering of ROI. 

The convenience of digital is just something that will allow you to melt into the chair and do everything with the click of a mouse and a remote control. 

Went to another trade show with my "real" job and they had some spectacular massage chairs, fully automatic, reclining, the massages were really good, with infrared and vibrating, plus shiatsu and sensors measuring how and where you are tense!!! Now that with headphones and some good liquid nurishment would beat any setup for listening to music Full body listening. 

Nice find on the DAC, doubt I will be able to listen to it because its a bit to niechey but cool to know there is the option.

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> WB2016 and JV,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Sure anytime.
WB


----------



## richdytch

Hi folks, 
  
 Well my Elise arrived on Thursday afternoon. Work took a back seat while I rearranged my kit to accommodate it. 
  
 In the 20 or so hours of burn-in I've given it, it's opened up hugely. I'm trying to avoid hyperbole as I write, but I think it's fair to say that it's the single biggest improvement in quality my signal chain has ever received. And its not fully burned in yet. 
  
 My passive PMC speakers have always displayed a very slight harshness in the upper mids that I suspected was down to using an inferior preamp (I switched between LD mkiii and my old Marantz PM7001KI) and which I'd never encountered in my friend's active PMCs. My theory seems to have been vindicated, because as the amp has started to come alive, the harshness has been replaced by a silky smoothness. The imaging is very solid and has a depth to it I've never experienced in my home rig; from a way in front of the speakers, to quite some distance behind. The overall feel is of effortlessness, with a beautiful visceral weight I hadn't anticipated.
  
 It's taken this long to contribute my impressions to the thread because I've been spending all my spare time since Thursday listening to music. This is the first time that a piece of audio kit has made me get emotional. There have been moments when it was so good I felt a bit overcome. 
  
 I know it's relatively early in the burn-in and at the moment the Elise seems to oscillate between excellent and incredible - the best performance is always when it's been switched on for quite some time. I'm sure the periods of best performance will increase and eventually join up. I'm leaving it on today, burning in, ahead of a friend coming over to hear it tonight. I have the stock tubes at the moment, but they're sounding great to me. I think it's going to be quite a while before I consider tube rolling  - I'm going to see what it's possible in its standard configuration, with plenty of use. I've also heard it mentioned that the standard tubes are a very good combo for those using it primarily as a preamp, although I'm sure there are other opinions out there. 
  
 My poor old Little Dot, which I'd been keeping handy 'just in case' is now consigned to a cupboard, awaiting its new owner. It's served me well for about 5 or 6 years, but there's really no point comparing it with the Elise. 
  
 It was Mordy who originally gave me the suggestion of the Elise, when I asked a question about LD mkiii power tube upgrades. I was not really checking Headfi a lot back then, because I'd settled into a specific setup. So thank you Mordy, for the suggestion - your ears and knowledge have once more proved to be correct  
  
 My full signal chain is:
  
 Chord 2qute DAC --> Elise --> Quad 909 power amp -> PMC twenty.23. 
  
 I also use an old Yamaha sub, but since getting the Elise there's so much good bass and authority to the setup, that the sub is now condemned to below the 40Hz mark, just to provide a little rumble. It's a great piece of kit though, which I found for £40 on Gumtree. 
  
 It shouldn't really be a footnote, but I should say that the Elise also drives my HE400 beyond what I'd though they were capable of. Headphones are generally only my late-night retreat, since I have to be very careful how much I use them, as I'm susceptible to tinnitus. Exciting times, I'll post again if I have any more notable observations this wonderful amp.
  
 Rich.


----------



## richdytch

I should add that PMC speakers are often criticised for being a little too cold and analytical - I really can't say that this is the case now, with the Elise in my setup. It's helping to bring out the best in them, and I'd say that things feel natural rather than cold. There's a very fine line between the two, I'd say.


----------



## aqsw

I feel the same as you H1. Never going back to vinyl. My STL tube dac with the Elise is amazing. I would put it up against any tt setup in the same price range also. I believe the dac is more important than the amp, and that is where I spent my $$.

Cheers

P.S. Still recouperating. Had an infection. This lying around isn't much fun.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I don't think you need to change anything. Here's some information on the cartridge: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL-110-Cartridge?sc=2&category=369
> 
> I'm sure JV can tell you for sure.




Because the DL-110 is HOMC High Output Moving Coil...works fine with your MM preamp. 

I was many years "in" before I finally went Moving Coil....your getting the benefit of other folks' expirence in short order. 

If you do go HOMC, you won't regret the "spend". There is no going back....


----------



## JazzVinyl

richdytch said:


> I should add that PMC speakers are often criticised for being a little too cold and analytical - I really can't say that this is the case now, with the Elise in my setup. It's helping to bring out the best in them, and I'd say that things feel natural rather than cold. There's a very fine line between the two, I'd say.




Congrats on getting your amp!!!

Fun times ahead, it get better and better from here!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I feel the same as you H1. Never going back to vinyl. My STL tube dac with the Elise is amazing. I would put it up against any tt setup in the same price range also. I believe the dac is more important than the amp, and that is where I spent my $$.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> P.S. Still recouperating. Had an infection. This lying around isn't much fun.




Wish we were close in distance, aqsw, I would LOVE to take on that challenge.

Glad to hear your feeling better...


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats @richdytch . A very thorough initial impression and no doubt you will love it even more in the coming months. I know I am even after 6 months.


----------



## pctazhp

I read on another thread about a disease that appears to be spreading among certain HeadFi members.I don't think it yet has a medical name, but it appears the main symptom is staying up until the wee hours of the night totally engrossed in listening. I usually turn into a pumpkin long before midnight, so my symptoms seem to be a little different - arising from sleep long before the sunrise and before anyone else is awake to get lost in the music.
  
 Tube-rolling is almost a thing of the past for me - at least for now))) I've settled into EL3N/5998s and loving it))))


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> I should add that PMC speakers are often criticised for being a little too cold and analytical - I really can't say that this is the case now, with the Elise in my setup. It's helping to bring out the best in them, and I'd say that things feel natural rather than cold. There's a very fine line between the two, I'd say.



 


I like the PMCs, the PMC twentyfives at the highend for their price and bass response really impressed. Strange what controlling the air vents does to the sound and bass response. They had the balls to run a 3.800 a pair speaker at the High End that could stand on its own with some 20K+ speakers, quite impressive. 

All PMC are quite resolving/analytical and benefit from a good tube amp and/or preamp, but if the tube amp isn't resolving it will rob you of the analytical benefits. The Elise as a preamp is suprisingly good. Especially with quads EL3Ns do they bring out the full potential of the Elise as a preamp. If you like using it as a preamp suggest going this route, which can be had for a steal. There was a post of someone selling EL3Ns so might want to snatch them and avoid shipping and import, and see how you like it.The quad EL3Ns are really quite good across the spectrum, especially also good bass for speakers and resolving, for the price you spend hard to beat. With the 4xEL3N the Elise can take on some Preamps (SE) until about 2K$. 

I wonder if you could retrofit the F1 airflow of the twentyfives into the older generation speakers??? Sure someone will offer a retro kit soon.

Nice intro text and congrats on the purchase.

Cheers
WB


----------



## richdytch

Hi WB. When you say quads EL3N do you mean four EL3N on the elise? - two as drivers and two as power? I'm a little but spent up right now, so unlikely to tube tool for a while, but it's good to gather ideas. Cheers!


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> Hi WB. When you say quads EL3N do you mean four EL3N on the elise? - two as drivers and two as power? I'm a little but spent up right now, so unlikely to tube tool for a while, but it's good to gather ideas. Cheers!



 


No quad adpaters as powers.

No rush let everything burn in and enjoy.

WB


----------



## connieflyer

@TOMNC was the member selling them,5 tubes for the price of 4 and he is throwing in the dual elen to 6sn7s adapters free. I am running quad powere and dual drivers and so far,imho, it is the best. Just hooked it up as a pre-amp and with the new dac it is fantastic.


----------



## richard89

Hey all, I just purchased the dual EL3N to 6sn7 adapters and EL3N tubes from @TomNC while I'm waiting on the Elise. (thanks again for the great deal)
  
 I was wondering what combinations would work well as drivers for the quad EL3N powers? Would the stock tube drivers be ok?
  
 I read a post from @UntilThen that said the C3G's as drivers doesn't work well with this combo and produces hums. Is this a tube/amp compatibility issue or headphone compatibility issue?
  
 Thanks!
 Richard


----------



## supersonic395

richdytch said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Well my Elise arrived on Thursday afternoon. Work took a back seat while I rearranged my kit to accommodate it.
> 
> ...




Many thanks for posting your impressions and glad to read you like it!


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> Hey all, I just purchased the dual EL3N to 6sn7 adapters and EL3N tubes from @TomNC while I'm waiting on the Elise. (thanks again for the great deal)
> 
> I was wondering what combinations would work well as drivers for the quad EL3N powers? Would the stock tube drivers be ok?
> 
> ...


 

 Best drivers for quad EL3N powers are EL3N from my experiments. Now that you're 5 EL3N, you need one more to make it 6.
  
 2 as drivers in front and 4 as power tubes with those dual adapters.
  
 For the front drivers, you need to purchase a pair of these single EL3N adapters. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
 Please refer to post 9291, where I talk about this combination and a list of others. 
  
 ps.. C3G as drivers not working well with quad EL3N as powers is a tube compatibility issue because they work well with other tube combination on Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Because the DL-110 is HOMC High Output Moving Coil...works fine with your MM preamp.
> 
> I was many years "in" before I finally went Moving Coil....your getting the benefit of other folks' expirence in short order.
> 
> If you do go HOMC, you won't regret the "spend". There is no going back....


 

 Thanks for the info. Good to know that the DL-110 will be a straight swap with the stock cartridge. I read a lot of good reviews on this cartridge and so it's on my radar.


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> Best drivers for quad EL3N powers are EL3N from my experiments. Now that you're 5 EL3N, you need one more to make it 6.
> 
> 2 as drivers in front and 4 as power tubes with those dual adapters.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.. the only thing that kind of upsetting is the shipping cost for just the extra 1 EL3N tube... I've still got some time for the Elise to arrive so I'll see if I can negotiate a lower shipping price. Pretty excited.. what a sweet deal. Thanks Tom


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp Ukraine takes first place and Australia come second. Well done Dami !!!
  
 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/ukraine-wins-eurovision-2016,-australia-comes-second/7415336?section=music


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp Ukraine takes first place and Australia come second. Well done Dami !!!
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/ukraine-wins-eurovision-2016,-australia-comes-second/7415336?section=music


 
 Thanks so much UT. I just showed my wife the video and we are celebrating)) And big congratulations to Australia !!!


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I got a backup pair of EL3N's today and thought I would switch one out with one in the driver's seat that's already burned in, so I could have a more asthetically appealing look, being that one was shorter than the other on the burned-in pair. But now I'm getting distortion in the left ear from this new tube; the volume breaks up easily with that one channel on my HD 650.
  
 That's something I noticed before when initially trying the EL3N's new is that the volume breaks up easily, but sure haven't noticed it after burn in. So am I right in matching a burned in with NOS tube here and that that distortion will self heal after burn in, or is it better to use a pair that are both burned in? 
  
 Thanks guys, wish I had more time for this thread


----------



## pctazhp

By the way, @UntilThen. My wife has been talking to friends and family back home. This really is a big deal for Ukraine and huge source of pride. They really needed something like this.


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> Well I got a backup pair of EL3N's today and thought I would switch one out with one in the driver's seat that's already burned in, so I could have a more asthetically appealing look, being that one was shorter than the other on the burned-in pair. But now I'm getting distortion in the left ear from this new tube; the volume breaks up easily with that one channel on my HD 650.
> 
> That's something I noticed before when initially trying the EL3N's new is that the volume breaks up easily, but sure haven't noticed it after burn in. So am I right in matching a burned in with NOS tube here and that that distortion will self heal after burn in, or is it better to use a matched pair that are burned in?
> 
> Thanks guys, wish I had more time for this thread


 
 I finally got around to re-seating the EL3Ns in my dual adapters. It solved both a hum problem and channel balance I was having and that had kept me from using the EL3Ns for power. The 4 EL3Ns I'm using for power therefore have very little time on them. I noticed the distortion you mention when I first got them going, but even after a few hours it has dropped considerably. I think it just takes a little time. 
  
 And by the way, they sound amazing !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Well I got a backup pair of EL3N's today and thought I would switch one out with one in the driver's seat that's already burned in, so I could have a more asthetically appealing look, being that one was shorter than the other on the burned-in pair. But now I'm getting distortion in the left ear from this new tube; the volume breaks up easily with that one channel on my HD 650.
> 
> That's something I noticed before when initially trying the EL3N's new is that the volume breaks up easily, but sure haven't noticed it after burn in. So am I right in matching a burned in with NOS tube here and that that distortion will self heal after burn in, or is it better to use a pair that are both burned in?
> 
> Thanks guys, wish I had more time for this thread


 

 Hi DL, I've no problems with new EL3N tubes. Volume break up could be due to the tubes not seated properly. Try renewing the contacts. 
 In any case burn in will certainly settle in the tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> By the way, @UntilThen. My wife has been talking to friends and family back home. This really is a big deal for Ukraine and huge source of pride. They really needed something like this.


 

 Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I cannot imagine Australia winning the *Euro*vision. They will have to change the name and would be a month long party here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I really needed something like this but we will party nevertheless... with Daft Punk.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Congrats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Between Ukraine, Australia and USA we've got the world pretty well covered tonight when it comes to partying


----------



## connieflyer

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!! There's a party in the U.S.??  I missed the invite!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> WAIT!!!!!!!!!!! There's a party in the U.S.??  I missed the invite!


 

 It's in Phoenix Arizona - Scottsdale. Month long party so you can still make it. 
  
 How's the PS Audio > Elise + 6 EL3N > HD800S coming along.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> WAIT!!!!!!!!!!! There's a party in the U.S.??  I missed the invite!


 
 Personally, I think it is the duty of @DavidA to invite us all to Hawaii for a real party


----------



## connieflyer

The PS Audio > Elise + 6 EL3N > HD800 are doing quite well.  The PS Audio is very resolving. Am very happy with the purchase.  So much so, believe it or not, I am listneing to Ray Coniff's the Whiffenpoof Song, from long ago,and am hearing details I had not heard since my old vinyl days. This is utube so not as good as file I have but you knew that!


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> Personally, I think it is the duty of @DavidA to invite us all to Hawaii for a real party


 
 Agreeeddd when do we ship out?


----------



## connieflyer

Another oldie with a nice trumpet is Temptation...


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Agreeeddd when do we ship out?


 
 I'm not sure I'll ever leave my desk again to go anywhere. These quad power EL3Ns seem to be getting better by the second. There really is fairy dust in audio after all. It's all sealed within decades-old EL3Ns )))


----------



## pctazhp

Hey @UntilThen. Why didn't you tell me before about using EL3Ns for power and leave me alone to discover all by myself??  JUST KIDDING. JUST KIDDING


----------



## connieflyer

I have to agree, the 6 pack is the best for me.  Like the c3g but have to pair it with 6080 and not so fond of the heat. But the 6 pack, just gets better and better.  I left it running all day with the music files and an old headphone plugged in.  Don't know how much bette these will sound but willing to wait them out


----------



## connieflyer

One more old but not forgotten, I can remember my grandmother playing this on her piano when I was a kid...


----------



## UntilThen

I didn't want to tell you more about 6 EL3N because you'll drain the world's supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We need Belgium to make more of these tubes. 
  
 Let Bob Marley show you how..


----------



## connieflyer

Here is a nice Dutch group.  Really like what they have done so far..


----------



## DecentLevi

Update on prior post: After just 3 hours of burn-in, the distortion of the NOS El3N has already reduced to almost none at all, so for any of you that hear volume break up on new tubes in the Elise, burnin could be the solution.
  
 Also I a few thoughts on these vs. the likes of 6SN7 tubes as drivers: While the sound is more lifelike and fuller especially in the bass, it seems some clarity is sacrificed. Anyway I'll let you guys know about a few other tube combinations that I'll get to try in a few days too


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 Congrats on your Elise! As overwhelming as the experience is listening to the stock tubes, using some of the recommended tube combinations on this thread elevates your listening experience several notches.
  
 I feel that it is safe to say that for most of us that have rolled different tubes in the Elise, the stock tubes are relegated to lying in a drawer....This does not mean that there is anything wrong with the stock tubes at all, just that we have been able to coax more performance out of the Elise with other tubes.
  
 There is another option of power tube rolling that so far only is used by JV and me as far as I know -  a special Feliks adapter for six tubes that requires an external power supply. This adapter opens up the opportunities for using inexpensive power tubes with spectacular results.
  
 In the near future I hope to have the adapters needed for comparing 6 EL3N tubes to my six pack set-up. Another comparison that I am interested in doing is to compare the 6BL7 tubes to the 6BX7 tubes, used as multiples.
  
 As so many owners of the Elise have experienced, having this amp leads to much more music listening than before - everybody seems to feel that especially old and familiar recordings take on a new life. The only term I can think of is *addiction*.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Lord Raven

If they listen to transistors they'll go straight to hell  vacuum tubes are heaven


----------



## connieflyer

Is there any concensus on burning in tubes?  I have heard you can just let the amp run with no load (headphone) with no signal applied, and the obverse, that you have to have a signal applied to the tube, and headphone connected to get proper burn in.  Anyone want to throw their hat in the ring?


----------



## TomNC

connieflyer said:


> Is there any concensus on burning in tubes?  I have heard you can just let the amp run with no load (headphone) with no signal applied, and the obverse, that you have to have a signal applied to the tube, and headphone connected to get proper burn in.  Anyone want to throw their hat in the ring?


 
 I have read that most people play music constantly during break-in and that was what I did with both a DAC and a tube amp. As to the headphone plug in, that depends on the design of the specific amp. For instance, the Little Dot MKIII requires a load all the time while my current tube amp does not.


----------



## TomNC

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Tom...tough decision indeed - yet again, lol! And a difficult one to answer...the Sabre may not be the best for everyone, especially if hyper-sensitive to treble and/or the amp's tubes tend towards accentuating the top. All I can say is that in my Elise, with EL3Ns driving the GEC CV2523s (I personally give them more like 98%!!) and T1 cans, the sound is truly sublime from this DAC's implementation of said chip.
> The only other chip I've heard is the Wolfson in my OPPO BDP103, which - for me - is much too 'polite' (flat even!)...I much prefer the sheer sparkle and energy of the Sabre 9018 - the FULL version that is...my experience of the K2M version, even when doubled up as in the ibasso D90, left me very disappointed indeed compared to the 'proper' 9018...(after all, how can a stripped down version - ie. 2 cores instead of 8 - come anywhere near lol?!!).
> 
> And so I would suggest your best option may well be to contact Mykhailo direct on his site...I'm sure he would be a good source of the info you seek...GOOD LUCK!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your input, H1. I have sent the DAC manufacturer a message to ask about their characterization of the differing sounds of those DACs. Agree with you that the implementation of the chips, rather than the chips themselves, might play a more significant role in sound production. On the other hand, this is a perfect case where differences of the chips should matter since the DACs are otherwise the same, I suppose.
  
 That score of 95 for CV2523s is just a courtesy for individuals who value their 421As or similar more than anything else. Haha.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 JV reported good results using the C3g as drivers with a six pack of 6BL7 so I decided to try a similar recipe:
  




  
 The power tubes are two each of TS 6BL7, Syl 6BX7 and RCA 6N7. The sound is very detailed with a panoramic sound stage. The bass is sweeter with the EL3N but the C3g has more dynamics and impact. This may be a good alternative - overall more analytical than when using the EL3N as drivers.
  
 Need more time to evaluate this set up.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I didn't want to tell you more about 6 EL3N because you'll drain the world's supply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, unfortunately I can't see too clearly because the content is blocked here in the USA. But as you say goodbye to summer and we get ready to say hello, I'm sure neither of us would want to miss this special example of great music ))))


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I remember when I first joined this thread, you, @hynos1 and others were talking about something called a “2030” I read about marshmallows, laptop power supplies and using different drivers for each channel (I never did get my brain around that last concept!!). I truly believed I had landed smack middle in the Land of Oz!!!
  
 But I stayed and learned. Tubes came and went, and I often didn’t know if a new tube (new to me) went in the front or back, did or didn’t require marshmallows (wired or not), would cause my Elise to melt into molten lava right before my eyes, or required a direct feed from the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station west of town!!!
  
 I find it very interesting that the end game (at least the current one) for me seems so simple – 6 tubes that don’t look like any other tube I’ve ever seen and were designed to work at the bottom of the ocean!!!
  
 We’re dancing here this afternoon in Scottsdale. Even the EL3Ns seem to have smiles on their faces and their red skirts are flowing in the wind )))
  
 Edit: Mordy has corrected me. According to him The C3g was designed to amplify telephone signals for under water trans oceanic cables. The EL3N was introduced in 1939 for use in radios and to produce great sound from the Elise amp! Now how do I get back to Kansas???


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Because the DL-110 is HOMC High Output Moving Coil...works fine with your MM preamp.
> 
> I was many years "in" before I finally went Moving Coil....your getting the benefit of other folks' expirence in short order.
> 
> If you do go HOMC, you won't regret the "spend". There is no going back....




Damn you guys! I feel like getting myself a turntable now.

No. Just no. No.

I especially blame you, UT! (Or is it the wife?)



No.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Is there any concensus on burning in tubes?  I have heard you can just let the amp run with no load (headphone) with no signal applied, and the obverse, that you have to have a signal applied to the tube, and headphone connected to get proper burn in.  Anyone want to throw their hat in the ring?




With a signal and a load is the bestest safest option in general with tube amps.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks, that is what I have believed but had to check in case science had moved on without me!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. I remember when I first joined this thread, you, @hynos1 and others were talking about something called a “2030” I read about marshmallows, laptop power supplies and using different drivers for each channel (I never did get my brain around that last concept!!). I truly believed I had landed smack middle in the Land of Oz!!!




You mean 2031, one FDD20 and one ECC31 as drivers. Still one of the best combos avail...anyone who says different didn't try it (I guess aqsw tried them and had hum problems) everyone else who tried them, had no problem wrapping their heads around the concept.

It was re-visiting 2031 that woke me up to the reality of EL3N, and how really really BAD they sound (to me).




.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> You mean 2031, one FDD20 and one ECC31 as drivers. Still one of the best combos avail...anyone who says different didn't try it (I guess aqsw tried them and had hum problems) everyone else who tried them, had no problem wrapping their heads around the concept.
> 
> It was re-visiting 2031 that woke me up to the reality of EL3N, and how really really BAD they sound (to me).
> 
> ...


 
 I don't know what I mean. I screwed up the post so bad I'm going to shut up and just listen for a while )))


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Damn you guys! I feel like getting myself a turntable now.
> 
> No. Just no. No.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey O, you've a Rega DAC. Rega has very good turntables, even the entry level ones. Or a vintage Denon or Thorens. Project? Technics? The choice is endless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This hobby is too much fun. Buying LPs is addictive (I have 9 now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) ... not to mention cartridges.
  
 ... and I stayed up last night reading up on cartridge replacement and alignment .... 
  
 ps... then I saw @nojdrof has a VPI Classic !!! Where are you nojdrof?


----------



## Oskari

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





pctazhp said:


> I read on another thread about a disease that appears to be spreading among certain HeadFi members.I don't think it yet has a medical name, but it appears the main symptom is staying up until the wee hours of the night totally engrossed in listening.




Insomnia audiophilia (nervosa) [var Elise]. I've got that pretty bad. It's bloody Monday already. 


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/O70BKnUhv0Q[/VIDEO]


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Hey O, you've a Rega DAC. Rega has very good turntables, even the entry level ones. Or a vintage Denon or Thorens. Project? Technics? The choice is endless. :bigsmile_face:




Thanks a lot, UT! You are not helping any.


----------



## connieflyer

I thought about it long and hard.  Followed the vinyl threads here for awhile, too.....http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=vinyl and have decided that I don't have the time to get that phase of my life restarted, so I am going to pass, still like to read about it, but for me, just don't have the free time.  Have to find somewhere local to take the records, 45's also to resell.
 another good site for tt'shttp://www.whatsbestforum.com/forumdisplay.php?14-Turntable-Forum&s=cb29111dcfc4b6a11c86d19cb1c1603f


----------



## nykobing

You did the right thing. I only use my turntable now for stuff that never came out on cd.


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning UT, something to wake you up, before the turntable beckons


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning UT, something to wake you up, before the turntable beckons


 
 TT already beckons. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks for the vinyl links. Looks interesting will check it out. Thanks also for this youtube video.
  
 I got my 10th LP and this one's special. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Who doesn't know The Beatles - Abbey Road. A classic ! I like the green apple label.


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> Congrats on your Elise! As overwhelming as the experience is listening to the stock tubes, using some of the recommended tube combinations on this thread elevates your listening experience several notches.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks Mordy. Again, sorry for my delay replying - I've been busy all weekend, largely listening  

 Knowing my own record as a tinkerer, I guess I am likely to tube roll the Elise at some point. So while I'm enjoying the stock tubes, I'm starting to research the possibilities. I'll be likely to look at straight (and affordable) plug and play swaps before I look at any multi-tube adapters.
  
 Right now, my biggest problem is that I now have to go away for 3 days with work. I wonder if I could fit the Elise in my suitcase? Good way to spend my hours in a hotel...


----------



## richdytch

Dear Elisers, I have a question. In the Elise documentation, it's stated that the amplifier must have 12 inches of clear space above it for the purposes of ventilation. However, this is how much I'm able to achieve right now, until I get some shelves put up. Do you think this is sufficient? Note that there is a vent above the amp, through which some heat probably escapes. 
  
 While the Elise has been switched on for up to about 16 hours a day since I got it, I've been checking it frequently, and while it does get warm, I'd say it doesn't feel too hot. I don't think it gets quite as warm as my LD used to get with 6h3pi power tubes in it. 
  
 Cheers, Rich.


----------



## connieflyer

Being on that long and only warm II see no problem you have plenty of free air space all the way around. Unless one of the Uber experts don't object, I think you are good to go.


----------



## RedBull

pctazhp said:


> Great news and welcome to the club))) I promise you the wait will be worth it.
> 
> Seems like orders for the Elise have been jumping quite a bit recently!!!


 
  
 My best amp is now Ember.  I don't really modify to Franken Ember level, already content with my lowly 6SN7GTB, it sounds really really good.
 I love to watch movies with this, 3D holographic soundstage make me feel like I am THERE in the scene. 
 All the sound around me can be heard no matter how small, better than watching in cinema (except bass maybe? but it's subjective, I still prefer my bass).  My setup makes cinema sound muffled 
 Frankly I don't know how to improve from there, hope Elise can prove me wrong.
  


hypnos1 said:


> We all share your pain, RB - just part of being "in the Club", lol!


 
  
 Can't believe it's still just 5 days past my payment, which means I still have 35 days to go.


----------



## RedBull

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> JV reported good results using the C3g as drivers with a six pack of 6BL7 so I decided to try a similar recipe:


 
  
 This ... reminds me of
  
 this ...


----------



## mordy

Hi RedBull,
  
 More like this:
  




  
 See - eight cylinders.....
  
 Truth is that this is not much different than using 6 x EL3N - the only difference is that this set up requires external power.


----------



## connieflyer

Compare Ember to Elise...


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Dear Elisers, I have a question. In the Elise documentation, it's stated that the amplifier must have 12 inches of clear space above it for the purposes of ventilation. However, this is how much I'm able to achieve right now, until I get some shelves put up. Do you think this is sufficient? Note that there is a vent above the amp, through which some heat probably escapes.
> 
> While the Elise has been switched on for up to about 16 hours a day since I got it, I've been checking it frequently, and while it does get warm, I'd say it doesn't feel too hot. I don't think it gets quite as warm as my LD used to get with 6h3pi power tubes in it.
> 
> Cheers, Rich.


 

 This looks nice.  Should be ample ventilation and airflow. Have you tried the turntable with Elise? I guess that's your Graham Slee phono preamp? 
  
 Nice and neat setup.


----------



## richdytch

connieflyer said:


> Being on that long and only warm II see no problem you have plenty of free air space all the way around. Unless one of the Uber experts don't object, I think you are good to go.


 
  
 Thanks Connieflyer - nice to have the reassurance.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> This looks nice.  Should be ample ventilation and airflow. Have you tried the turntable with Elise? I guess that's your Graham Slee phono preamp?
> 
> Nice and neat setup.


 
  
 Thanks UntilThen! It certainly serves me very well. Yes, that's the Slee phono stage. The first time I tried vinyl with the Slee/Elise combination, the Slee had been switched off for a while and it did sound rather harsh. After being a skeptic I've come to heed Graham Slee's advice about leaving the unit powered up - I really do think that the EQ curve takes a few days to settle down and become more correct. Also, the PMC 23s I'd upgraded to were a little more critical of the signal they were receiving than the 22s I'd come from. It wasn't working, at any rate. 
  
 They're very happy together now though, after letting the phono stage settle in. I've been playing a load of 50s jazz today and most crucially, I've just been forgetting about the system and listening to the music. That would seem to mainly be the Elise factor.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> You mean 2031, one FDD20 and one ECC31 as drivers. Still one of the best combos avail...anyone who says different didn't try it (I guess aqsw tried them and had hum problems) everyone else who tried them, had no problem wrapping their heads around the concept.
> 
> It was re-visiting 2031 that woke me up to the reality of EL3N, and how really really BAD they sound (to me).
> 
> ...


 
 My hum went away when I grounded the fdd20 to the Elise. A very nice combo, but I have put it in the drawer. I really don't want external heat anymore.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 I have my Elise on a rack with a shelf above it, and there isn't that much clearance above it with certain larger tubes with adapters. I am using my hands to feel if the amp gets very warm or hot (depends on tubes) and I mounted a discarded 4" PC fan above my amp that I turn on with hot running tubes.
  
 The Elise has different sizes air vent holes on the bottom and the top of the chassis, designed to cause convection of air and draw it away. The fan is configured to draw the air away from the amp (pulling the air through the amp). This works very well.
  
 Another way to lower the temperature of the chassis is to use inexpensive octal socket savers - they work as heat insulators to the chassis besides saving the amp sockets from wear and tear when doing tube rolling. Yet another way is to raise the amp on footers.
  
 Using these methods the chassis stays cool even with six very running tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

redbull said:


> My best amp is now Ember.  I don't really modify to Franken Ember level, already content with my lowly 6SN7GTB, it sounds really really good.
> I love to watch movies with this, 3D holographic soundstage make me feel like I am THERE in the scene.
> All the sound around me can be heard no matter how small, better than watching in cinema (except bass maybe? but it's subjective, I still prefer my bass).  My setup makes cinema sound muffled
> Frankly I don't know how to improve from there, hope Elise can prove me wrong.
> ...


 
  
 Oh dear RB...that means 35 (hopefully!) more days of trying to keep up with this thread...darn' difficult now summer's here!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


aqsw said:


> I feel the same as you H1. Never going back to vinyl. My STL tube dac with the Elise is amazing. I would put it up against any tt setup in the same price range also. I believe the dac is more important than the amp, and that is where I spent my $$.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> P.S. Still recouperating. Had an infection. This lying around isn't much fun.


 
  
 Sorry to hear about your suffering aqsw...but surely that means loads more quality Elise time, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...sure hope you're fighting fit now, though (and still enjoying the addiction! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Yes, your tube DAC certainly looked impressive from the photo you posted a while back...but no close-up?! Mine just keeps getting better and better - to tell the truth I had my doubts beforehand...after all, feeding Elise +  EL3Ns via a pair of never-before-seen ECC85s did have me wondering somewhat, lol! But I needn't have worried....they're doing a marvellous job of it, and am sure they do indeed improve upon the usual op-amps used.
  
 I mentioned briefly last time how they surpassed my Audiolab in every department...but another has now really come to the fore - amazing soundstage. At first I feared this was at the expense of pushing vocals further back, but in the magical way of things burn-in, voices are now back just where I like them...not too close, and not too far...SUBLIME!
  
 The only downside is that recordings I previously thought very good, now have their imperfections shown up rather more...but are still good! Those better engineered/recorded are truly shown off to their best. But actually, one piece that really took me by surprise wasn't in fact a masterly piece of hi-res...it was much more humble fare - viz: Peter, Paul and Mary's "Early Morning Rain". I just wasn't prepared for the goosebumps that followed! No obvious fancy panning/mixing L&R/phase shifting/reverb/pre-echo etc. etc...but this DAC certainly brought out something magical in the piece...and things can only continue to improve for a good while yet, I am sure.
  
 I had always previously thought of tube DACs as rather gimmicky...SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!


----------



## aqsw

Here's the website. My DAC is the last two pictures.
  
 I got the USB DSD option also.
  
 http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/DA-24_192-Super.php


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> My hum went away when I grounded the fdd20 to the Elise. A very nice combo, but I have put it in the drawer. I really don't want external heat anymore.


 
  
 Yo aqsw....my favourite combo before the EL3N took me by surprise, lol!
  
 At which juncture I feel somewhat compelled to point out a few facts concerning this tube that has been referred to by one member as "really really BAD".
  
 The 'reality' is, in fact, that the vast majority of those who have tried this tube rate it extremely highly, and for most it is their "end game" tube. Plus, final confirmation -  for me especially - is that the famed *Glenn*, of Glenn Amps has stated in his thread that after 10 years he has decided to make an amp for himself...and what's he going to use?*...EL3Ns!* And to quote from his post #13208 : "*The EL3N is a dam good sounding tube. I was shocked by the sound".* This endorsement I believe to be  one of the most encouraging yet from outside our home ground ...and there are glowing reports also from WA22 land. And so I say...*Vive la EL3N!!...*and thanks aplenty to Peter at AcousticDimension for providing immaculate tubes at a great price...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Yo aqsw....my favourite combo before the EL3N took me by surprise, lol!
> 
> At which juncture I feel somewhat compelled to point out a few facts concerning this tube that has been referred to by one member as "really really BAD".
> 
> ...


 
 I'm using El3N as drivers and absolutely love them. No distortion with my Mr Speaker Ethers until the volume is unbearable.
 I'm thinking of going with the quad drivers, but I would have to buy the adapters, and my setup sounds so good as it sits.
 I do have 6 El3Ns in the drawer. I'm good for my lifetime!!


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I'm using El3N as drivers and absolutely love them. No distortion with my Mr Speaker Ethers until the volume is unbearable.
> I'm thinking of going with the quad drivers, but I would have to buy the adapters, and my setup sounds so good as it sits.
> I do have 6 El3Ns in the drawer. I'm good for my lifetime!!


 
  
 WOW aqsw...that sure is one good-looking DAC you treated yourself to...an early Christmas present to yourself, as was mine to me lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Bet it sounds amazing...especially along with your EL3Ns also, not to mention Ethers! (Great indeed that Elise can drive those cans...).
  
 Yeah, I would keep those tubes for future use...here's wishing you a good _long_ lifespan - with not too many nasty infections, lol!...
 CJ


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> I have my Elise on a rack with a shelf above it, and there isn't that much clearance above it with certain larger tubes with adapters. I am using my hands to feel if the amp gets very warm or hot (depends on tubes) and I mounted a discarded 4" PC fan above my amp that I turn on with hot running tubes.
> 
> ...




Thanks Mordy, some very useful ideas there. It's been on for about the last 6 hours and it's only slightly warm. Doesn't feel like anything unreasonable. 

Rich


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo aqsw....my favourite combo before the EL3N took me by surprise, lol!
> 
> At which juncture I feel somewhat compelled to point out a few facts concerning this tube that has been referred to by one member as "really really BAD".
> 
> ...


 

 It does not surprise me that Glenn thinks that the EL3Ns are 'dam good sounding' tubes because to my ears, they are. I believe he's planning on using them as power tubes too.
  
 Running EL3N as drivers has the best results but adding quad EL3N as powers does sound special. Ambience, space and instruments separation. Give it the necessary burn in and high and low ends extends out and mid range takes full flight. Anyone thinking that these lack high end details have not burn in the tubes. Once burn in, the high notes sparkles and are non fatiguing - your ears will thank you for it. These red tubes will encourage music listening. Pair these with HD800, T1, modded HD650 and HD600 for best results. Stock HD650 less so. 
  
 These days I'm just running EL3N drivers and TS 7236 as powers. Chatham 6520 are my next favorite power tubes. I use the quad EL3Ns powers sparingly... not wanting to burn them all away. Same goes for the TS 5998.
  
 Best of all, these tubes are still so 'cheap' from Acoustics Dimension. Again I repeat H1's reminder to Elise owners to snag these tubes before Peter's stocks runs out and they will run out... mark my words.
  
 PS...@pctazhp and @connieflyer you're still swinging with the Sultans on 6xEL3Ns I believe.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi folks...just a quickie - didn't think I'd be doing any more "Midnight missives", but as I finish listening to Dire Straits "Love over Gold" album with my new tube DAC I have to admonish dear @aqsw for not urging me to look out for such an animal I could afford 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...(although you did put out the hints, aq!!). This leap easily equals that going from the LD MKIVSE to Elise (with my latest tubes)...I know I have said many times that this amp will continue to scale along with whatever upgrades are made in the rest of the system, but I wasn't prepared for such a *massive* improvement from this modestly priced unit...I only wish Lukasz could now hear what his team's creation is capable of delivering beyond stock...(I don't think they've yet got around to checking out for themselves the results of our tinkering, lol!!). All I can think of to say right now is - to quote Muhammad Ali - she's "floating like a butterfly, stinging like a bee"...(I do actually feel like he's just landed a right hook spot on target - but luckily have lived to tell the tale!)....
  
 Goodnight all.....


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yo aqsw....my favourite combo before the EL3N took me by surprise, lol!
> ...


 

 I am building a amp that is going to run the EL3N at it's optimum . Have Lundahl output transformers coming for it.
 Must be nuts these transformers are costing about $1K just to get the best out of EL3Ns. The output will have a
 switch to run the output in triode 1watt or pentode 4.5 watts. And the driver is another EL3N.
 And will have a neat looking AZ1 mesh plate rectifier.
 Maybe I am nuts but this will be fun for me sick of building the same amps over and over.
 So far everything I have done with these tubes sounds great.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> I am building a amp that is going to run the EL3N at it's optimum . Have Lundahl output transformers coming for it.
> Must be nuts these transformers are costing about $1K just to get the best out of EL3Ns. The output will have a
> switch to run the output in triode 1watt or pentode 4.5 watts. And the driver is another EL3N.
> And will have a neat looking AZ1 mesh plate rectifier.
> ...


 

 I'll be keen to see your end result because I think a tube amp specially build for EL3N will sound amazing.
  
 A switch to run in triode or pentode... that's nice.,, really nice.


----------



## aqsw

2359glenn said:


> I am building a amp that is going to run the EL3N at it's optimum . Have Lundahl output transformers coming for it.
> Must be nuts these transformers are costing about $1K just to get the best out of EL3Ns. The output will have a
> switch to run the output in triode 1watt or pentode 4.5 watts. And the driver is another EL3N.
> And will have a neat looking AZ1 mesh plate rectifier.
> ...




That is the ultimate compliment to the EL3N tube, that an accomplished buider like yourself would do this.
I might have to buy more tubes now, as anybody that wants one of your amps (which are many) might have to buy them from us POOR Elise guys.


----------



## 2359glenn

You know sticking this power pentode in a 6SN7 socket is far from optimum .
 But the dam thing still sounds great. And is not noisy like most output tubes are when used like this.
 Tried a bunch and none were worth a dam. The only other tube I liked like this is the C3g.
 But might like the sound of the EL3N better.
 I use a 26 in my preamp great sounding but a pain to deal with and have to go through a bunch
 to find quiet ones..


----------



## aqsw

2359glenn said:


> You know sticking this power pentode in a 6SN7 socket is far from optimum .
> But the dam thing still sounds great. And is not noisy like most output tubes are when used like this.
> Tried a bunch and none were worth a dam. The only other tube I liked like this is the C3g.
> But might like the sound of the EL3N better.
> ...




Its optimum for me! I don't have your expertise. I only have my ears!j

Is your new amp going to have balanced inputs?


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359glenn,
  
 I am now using 2 C3g tubes as drivers with 6 power tubes in my Elise (Glennise?) [2 each of 6BL7, 6BX7 and 6N7]. Since I am not fettered by any electronics knowledge it is easy to think out of the box.
  
 This combination sounds very nice with a special detailed and punchy bass.
  
 Do you think an amplifier like the one you are contemplating would work well with a combination of C3g and EL3N?


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> You know sticking this power pentode in a 6SN7 socket is far from optimum .
> But the dam thing still sounds great. And is not noisy like most output tubes are when used like this.
> Tried a bunch and none were worth a dam. The only other tube I liked like this is the C3g.
> But might like the sound of the EL3N better.
> ...


 

 I do prefer EL3N over C3G even though I like the latter a lot. EL3N as drivers in the 6SN7 socket sounds great to me. So good they're my resident drivers now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What I don't understand is C3G as drivers does not pair well with quad EL3N as powers. It's under driving my headphones, even the dynamic ones. However going all EL3N as drivers and powers works very well... correction... works wonders.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You know sticking this power pentode in a 6SN7 socket is far from optimum .
> ...


 

 The 6SN7 circuit is not optimum for ether one I don't know why the EL3N bests it. And is less money $35 in the US.
 I haven't played with the EL3N yet .  Will have to do a EL3N driving a 300B but it doesn't have as much gain as a C3g does.
 So might not be as good for that.
 Answer I don't know why the EL3N sounds so good


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi folks...just a quickie - didn't think I'd be doing any more "Midnight missives", but as I finish listening to Dire Straits "Love over Gold" album with my new tube DAC I have to admonish dear @aqsw
> for not urging me to look out for such an animal I could afford :wink_face: ...(although you did put out the hints, aq!!). This leap easily equals that going from the LD MKIVSE to Elise (with my latest tubes)...I know I have said many times that this amp will continue to scale along with whatever upgrades are made in the rest of the system, but I wasn't prepared for such a *massive* improvement from this modestly priced unit...I only wish Lukasz could now hear what his team's creation is capable of delivering beyond stock...(I don't think they've yet got around to checking out for themselves the results of our tinkering, lol!!). All I can think of to say right now is - to quote Muhammad Ali - she's "floating like a butterfly, stinging like a bee"...(I do actually feel like he's just landed a right hook spot on target - but luckily have lived to tell the tale!)....
> 
> Goodnight all.....




It really astonishes me when people say a DAC is in the lower chain of a system. Some people will swear their 29 cent dac in their computer is as good as ours.
I know about diminishing returns, but I'm extremely happy with my purchase.

I only have two albums on DSD, but all I can say is WOW!!!!

My other tunes are WOW!

And I have a Hegel DAC in my office with a Liquid Carbon., which I paid a little less than my STL. It is a fabulous DAC, but doesn't compare to that STL with those great big 6550s
pumping 8 crystal chips. I just wish my Elise had balanced inputs so that I could use it to its full potental.

I am on Lucacz beta list for the balanced Elise though.


----------



## 2359glenn

aqsw said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi folks...just a quickie - didn't think I'd be doing any more "Midnight missives", but as I finish listening to Dire Straits "Love over Gold" album with my new tube DAC I have to admonish dear @aqsw
> ...


 

 Why balanced? You think having twice the electronics in the signal path is going to make it sound better??


----------



## pctazhp

2359glenn said:


> Why balanced? You think having twice the electronics in the signal path is going to make it sound better??


 
 Not to mention, double the tubes I assume. Seems hard enough to find and pay for good tubes for a single ended design. Doubling that task doesn't sound very inviting to me.


----------



## UntilThen

Well tried 2xC3G and 4xEL3N again. With turntable as input and T1 as headphone, I am surprised now that it exhibited no distortion. In fact sounded good. Volume is as shown in the photo below. With HiFiman HE560 planar magnetic , there's under driving distortions though.
  
 This is a sharper tone compared to 6xEL3N and I prefer the latter.
  
 It's just another good option now using 2xC3G and 4xEL3N and I know some folks here will love it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> PS...@pctazhp and @connieflyer you're still swinging with the Sultans on 6xEL3Ns I believe.


 
  
 Spent some time today with EL3N/5998s. Something wasn't sounding quit right with the 6 X EL3Ns. Being like @mordy and totally unrestrained by any knowledge of electronics, I tried swapping my front EL3N drivers with the outside EL3Ns at the back, and everything now is quite "wonderful", as you say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But still really like the EL3N/5998s also.


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> The 6SN7 circuit is not optimum for ether one I don't know why the EL3N bests it. And is less money $35 in the US.
> I haven't played with the EL3N yet .  Will have to do a EL3N driving a 300B but it doesn't have as much gain as a C3g does.
> So might not be as good for that.
> Answer I don't know why the EL3N sounds so good


 
 What do you think in general about running tubes in circuits that weren't build for it? Have you ever tried 6N7G or ECC31 (as drivers) in a 6SN7 circuit?


----------



## 2359glenn

suuup said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The 6SN7 circuit is not optimum for ether one I don't know why the EL3N bests it. And is less money $35 in the US.
> ...


 

 I think whatever sounds good to you.
 As far as I know the Elise has cathode follower output with the cathodes hooked together so using these tubes is fine for outputs.
 Don't think they will work for the driver maybe with the right adapter they will work as a driver.
 The single cathode will have to be hooked up to both cathode connections in the 6SN7 socket.


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> I think whatever sounds good to you.
> As far as I know the Elise has cathode follower output with the cathodes hooked together so using these tubes is fine for outputs.
> Don't think they will work for the driver maybe with the right adapter they will work as a driver.
> The single cathode will have to be hooked up to both cathode connections in the 6SN7 socket.


 
 I'm currently running 6N7G as drivers, and have for a long time. I very much enjoy the sound, but a lot of people are very dismissive of it (without having heard it), because the tubes are not running at 'optimal values'.


----------



## Suuup

We talked about getting shocks a while back. Just stumbled across this video showing a guy touching 170V DC and 340V DC. 170V was a small tingle, the 340V hurt a bit. 120V AC is certainly dangerous, but there's a BIG difference between AC and DC. What we used to power the FDD20 was 12 V DC and was / is not - in any way, shape or form - dangerous.


----------



## JazzVinyl

And neither is the 6.3 volts AC at 20 amps coming from the secondary of the Transformer Glenn suggested for the 6x 6BL7 as power tubes.

You can touch both of the 6.3 volt secondary leads and feel absolutely nothing. It's not dangerous at all. 

I too, love 6N7G, Suuup, and the 12v cousin/derivative FDD20's, are one of my favorite drivers in this amp. They have something the EL3N does not have...the full spectrum of frequencies, represented 

Sorry, had to throw a barb since h1 loves throwing them at me 

Cheers to all the LUCKY ONES


----------



## aqsw

2359glenn said:


> Why balanced? You think having twice the electronics in the signal path is going to make it sound better??




No, but my dac has balanced outputs. Would like to use them.I was hoping to run balanced to a headphone amp and SE to a 
tube amp Im thinking of getting.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 For the past two days I have been running 2 C3g tubes as drivers with a six pack of 6BL7/6BX7/6N7 as powers. In comparison to using the EL3N as drivers with the same power tubes, the EL3N is more musical and a little softer. The C3g is more analytical and accentuates the impact and dynamics in the mid bass.
  
 Both combinations sound very nice, and it is a matter of choice; at this point I can't say that one is better than the other, just different.


----------



## connieflyer

suuup said:


> you have not lived till you ricochette between a -240 and a +240 under a radar consol in bad weather once one screwdrivr slips off the asdusting screw you bounce back and forth till some one shuts off the console.  They always waited and had a good laugh firstl
> 
> We talked about getting shocks a while back. Just stumbled across this video showing a guy touching 170V DC and 340V DC. 170V was a small tingle, the 340V hurt a bit. 120V AC is certainly dangerous, but there's a BIG difference between AC and DC. What we used to power the FDD20 was 12 V DC and was / is not - in any way, shape or form - dangerous.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> And neither is the 6.3 volts AC at 20 amps coming from the secondary of the Transformer Glenn suggested for the 6x 6BL7 as power tubes.
> 
> You can touch both of the 6.3 volt secondary leads and feel absolutely nothing. It's not dangerous at all.
> 
> ...


 
 I think the subject is far more complicated than you suggest. There is a lot of information about electrical shock from AC on the internet, including such scholarly papers as: http://bme.ccny.cuny.edu/faculty/mbikson/BiksonMSafeVoltageReview.pdf
  
 This is not a question of which tube sounds better, and it certainly shouldn't be about a "gotcha" against a fellow thread member (the originator at that)
  
 At the bottom of this site: http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=ijepe.2010.177.181 it states:
  
 "Effects of an electric current passing through the vital parts of a human body depend on the duration, magnitude and frequency of this current. The most dangerous consequence of such an exposure is a heart condition known as ventricular fibrillation, resulting in immediate arrest of blood circulation. *Humans are very vulnerable to the effects of electric current at frequencies of 50 or 60 Hz.* *Currents of approximately 0.1 A can be lethal*."
  
I don't know if that site is right, but with all due respect I'll take their advice over yours.
  
The risk may be low, but to suggest someone intentionally subject themselves to 20 amps at a 50 or 60 Hz doesn't seem very responsible to me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I think the subject is far more complicated than you suggest. There is a lot of information about electrical shock from AC on the internet, including such scholarly papers as: http://bme.ccny.cuny.edu/faculty/mbikson/BiksonMSafeVoltageReview.pdf
> 
> This is not a question of which tube sounds better, and it certainly shouldn't be about a "gotcha" against a fellow thread member (the originator at that)
> 
> ...




Haha!

Pretty sure you right, there pct, are ya? Read the page you linked to again....carefully and SLOWLY.

Then read what I said again,

Carefully and SLOWLY.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Haha!
> 
> Pretty sure you right, there pct, are ya? Read the page you linked to again....carefully and SLOWLY.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you get your jollies out of misstating what people say??? I read the paper. I know it deals with voltages much higher than 6V. The quote from the second site focused on current, not voltage. But the main point is I never said I was right about anything. Before you lecture me about how to read academic papers, you might start learning how to read posts. 
  
 You have taken your experience and generalized it to suggest that it is always safe to touch the secondary of the Triad transformer. Maybe it is. I sure don't know, but I don't plan to find out if you are right by conducting a similar experiment. I have no problem with someone who wants to use that transformer. As the first site pointed out, the incidents of death are pretty low from much higher voltages. And I'm sure that people who use the transformer are going to wire it properly to guard against shock. I just don't want to be the one to recommend touching it.
  
 Your condescending style of telling me to read the paper SLOWLY and what you wrote SLOWLY without actually making any specific point is duly noted.This isn't grade school.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> The 6SN7 circuit is not optimum for ether one I don't know why the EL3N bests it. And is less money $35 in the US.
> I haven't played with the EL3N yet .  Will have to do a EL3N driving a 300B but it doesn't have as much gain as a C3g does.
> So might not be as good for that.
> Answer I don't know why the EL3N sounds so good


 
  
 Hi Glenn.
  
 Hope you didn't mind my quoting you...your enthusiasm  for the EL3N encouraged me to restate the accolade this tube truly deserves.
  
 And yes indeed, we just keep on being confounded at how the Feliks-Audio guys have managed to make a unit that, with adapters, can deliver results that are quite amazing from non-stock-configured tubes...we are truly fortunate...
  
 Sounds like you have quite a project going there for your own amp...look forward to hearing your final verdict...(should be a killer amp, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....CHEERS!
  
 CJ


----------



## richdytch

Well, I'm starting small - two el3n tubes on their way from the US. Will order the adapters nearer the time because they're usually quick to arrive. I'll be using them than simply as drivers to begin with, see how that goes. Might then try Chathams as power tubes... Before gradually getting it together to try the el3n quad for output.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Well, I'm starting small - two el3n tubes on their way from the US. Will order the adapters nearer the time because they're usually quick to arrive. I'll be using them than simply as drivers to begin with, see how that goes. Might then try Chathams as power tubes... Before gradually getting it together to try the el3n quad for output.


 

 Good choice Rich. Acoustics Dimension price is 20 euro each. I doubt you can get cheaper in US.
  
 After the Chathams, like @Fervent , you might find that is all you need.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > The 6SN7 circuit is not optimum for ether one I don't know why the EL3N bests it. And is less money $35 in the US.
> ...


 

 Have the Feliks ever commented on what you guys are doing with all these tubes and adapters??
 Nice to have a versatile amp that can do all this.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Have the Feliks ever commented on what you guys are doing with all these tubes and adapters??
> Nice to have a versatile amp that can do all this.


 

 Yup Lukasz goes WOW when he saw the 6xEL3N photo of Elise I send him. He's obviously delighted and send his and the FA Team best wishes to everyone here.
  
 I also got his unofficial OK confirmation on the go ahead to use 6xEL3N in Elise. He consulted his dad Henryk, who took a long hard look at my email and said 'Will work with the correct adapter'.
 With the usual caveat... I do so at my own risk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well many moons have passed and Elise is still working well with C3G, ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and my final destination EL3N. 
  
 I believe these tubes are working well in your tube amp too.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> Good choice Rich. Acoustics Dimension price is 20 euro each. I doubt you can get cheaper in US.
> 
> After the Chathams, like @Fervent , you might find that is all you need.


 
  
 Nice one, thanks for the tipoff U.T 
  
 I really shouldn't be buying tubes right now... but I am .


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> Have the Feliks ever commented on what you guys are doing with all these tubes and adapters??
> Nice to have a versatile amp that can do all this.


 
  
 Hi Glenn.
  
 UT has given a good lowdown on this...I always get the feeling Lukasz is having a quiet (no, LOUD!) giggle when we tell him just what we're doing to his babies, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 They're certainly _intrigued_ by what we try - and even more so by the positive results we get....without blowing anything up! I also suspect they find it all rather useful for their own R&D...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but I'm afraid they're gonna have to do their own from now on without any more help from me! - these EL3Ns are definitely my end-game drivers now...especially with how they're performing now I have my new tube DAC...).
  
 Yeah...versatile indeed, Glenn...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...thanks for your interest and input....


----------



## connieflyer

If you are enjoying your amp, you might want to drop Lukasz an email and let him know what a good job his father did on the design and execution of the product.  I have and Lukasz always writes back he showed the email to his father and it made him happy.  We must keep him happy, so the good works go on!


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> *It really astonishes me when people say a DAC is in the lower chain of a system. Some people will swear their 29 cent dac in their computer is as good as ours.
> I know about diminishing returns, but I'm extremely happy with my purchase*.
> 
> I only have two albums on DSD, but all I can say is WOW!!!!
> ...


 
  
 This experience with a tube DAC certainly has got me agreeing with you...quite astonishing! That this thing is way better in all areas than my £800 Audiolab 8200CD has proved this to me beyond any doubt whatsoever...I still can't actually believe it.... So get saving folks!!


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> This experience with a tube DAC certainly has got me agreeing with you...quite astonishing! That this thing is way better in all areas than my £800 Audiolab 8200CD has proved this to me beyond any doubt whatsoever...I still can't actually believe it.... So get saving folks!!


 
 Me to self: Do not listen to H1, do not listen to H1, do not listen to H1!!! Self to me: You heard the man!! Just shut up and start saving


----------



## oshipao

Preparing to receive the Elise. Two drivers aquired. I need them drivers to be lit up!

I said I would be willing to wait half a year for this... I can't 

Hey, a little Feliciano for you guys who I have listened very little to. Please tell me it sounds good in the Elise 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fBASA5cdLGk


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> If you are enjoying your amp, you might want to drop Lukasz an email and let him know what a good job his father did on the design and execution of the product.  I have and Lukasz always writes back he showed the email to his father and it made him happy.  We must keep him happy, so the good works go on!


 
 I have CF back in Jan 2016 and I received my Elise in Oct 2015. I bugged him a lot then with photos of the tubes we're rolling in Elise. 
  
 Lukasz told me that his dad is personally involved in each and every Elise. He didn't just sign the certificate that comes with the amp. He is 'hands on' in it.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> This experience with a tube DAC certainly has got me agreeing with you...quite astonishing! That this thing is way better in all areas than my £800 Audiolab 8200CD has proved this to me beyond any doubt whatsoever...I still can't actually believe it.... So get saving folks!!


 
 H1, you're making me very envious here. 
  
 Perhaps we can do a trade...my turntable for your tube DAC... LOL.
  
 Or I have to find a way to add tubes to the turntable.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Preparing to receive the Elise. Two drivers aquired. I need them drivers to be lit up!
> 
> I said I would be willing to wait half a year for this... I can't


 
  
 Well oshipao, those Sylvanias 6SN7GTB are in my Hall of Tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 See this combo here? Pair with Tung Sol 5998 and you'll be missing breakfast, lunch and dinner because you're too engrossed listening to music.
  


 ps... have I not convinced you to get a pair of EL3N as drivers yet? You should.


----------



## pctazhp

oshipao said:


> Preparing to receive the Elise. Two drivers aquired. I need them drivers to be lit up!
> 
> I said I would be willing to wait half a year for this... I can't
> 
> ...


 
  
 You have no idea!!! By the way, I love that album


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Or I have to find a way to add tubes to the turntable.


 
 It's called a "phono preamp":
 http://www.overtureav.com/shop/audio-research/audio-research-reference-phono-3-detail


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> It's called a "phono preamp":
> http://www.overtureav.com/shop/audio-research/audio-research-reference-phono-3-detail


 
 $14,000 !!! Wait a minute... it uses 6 6H30 tubes. Six seems to be the magical number lately.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Today I received my EL3N adapters. The first experiment was to run a six pack of EL3N as power tubes with two C3g tubes as drivers.
  
 To keep you in suspense, I am adding a few details: I discovered that the  6 x 6BL7 adapter does not allow for six bathtub style EL3N adapters to fit. Instead I used my dual 6BL7 adapters in the outside sockets on the 6 x adapter. Everything finally fit in.
  
 With the six EL3N tubes towering over the small C3g tubes it looked liked the Royal British Guard looking at two midgets. Out of sensitivity to certain forum members I am not posting the picture.
  
 Did it work?? you ask. In one word: *NO*
    
 There was a huge amount of hum - forget about it....
  
 OK - next we go to UT's favorite territory: 6 x EL3N - two drivers and four power tubes. The drivers are probably almost broken in (3-400 hrs); the power tubes are new.
  
  
 Right out of the box this sounds great. And probably the most quiet tube complement that I have - barely any noise at the highest (unlistenable) volume settings.
  
 No fuss, no muss with no need for external power. Why didn't I go here right away like pct? I guess that part of the pleasure of a trip and coming to your destination is the travel itself...
  
 And I have this weakness for great sounding $3 tubes. Going to let the all EL3N set-up percolate for a while and then compare it to a six pack of 6BX7 and 6BL7 etc. .


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> With the six EL3N tubes towering over the small C3g tubes it looked liked the Royal British Guard looking at two midgets. Out of sensitivity to certain forum members I am not posting the picture.


 
 I have to see this - my eyes are sensitized now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No I don't think that will work with the adapters used. 
  
 You're one of the few where 6 EL3N work right out of the box. Most struggle to get the tubes in !!! 
  
 Great to hear it's the quietest combo you have. The power tubes need a settling in period but you know that already.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Well oshipao, those Sylvanias 6SN7GTB are in my Hall of Tubes.
> 
> See this combo here? Pair with Tung Sol 5998 and you'll be missing breakfast, lunch and dinner because you're too engrossed listening to music.
> 
> ...




Wow! Stop teasing  I have actually thought about getting the EL3Ns, and I am sure they will sound sublime! 

But for now I think I will try the Sylvanias and maybe elaborate later on. Need to get some power tubea too (those 5998 are sooo much dinero!). Noone have tried 6f8gs? Like the way they look. But they are the same as 6sn7 according to specs?


----------



## oshipao

pctazhp said:


> You have no idea!!! By the way, I love that album




Hi pctazhp!

Cool. I actually order one sealed copy this evening! Just curious about this "dynagroove" mastering RCA did back in the 60's. Have heard very few positive comments. But I think I like it anyhow beacuse it's a great live album 

Do you play vinyl yourself?


----------



## pctazhp

oshipao said:


> Hi pctazhp!
> 
> Cool. I actually order one sealed copy this evening! Just curious about this "dynagroove" mastering RCA did back in the 60's. Have heard very few positive comments. But I think I like it anyhow beacuse it's a great live album
> 
> Do you play vinyl yourself?


 
 I'm sure you will be happy with the LP. Unfortunately, sometime during the late 50s, early 60s, RCA switched from its legendary "Shaded Dog" Living Stereo line to dynagroove and the quality was never the same, but still good.
  
 I got rid of my 2500 LPs about 10 years ago mainly because I got lazy and old, but was into vinyl for over 30 years.  I think @UntilThen is buying up my old collection, one LP at a time ))))


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I have had a pair of EL3N for a while and have practiced to get the tubes in and out. The first time I was sweating bullets - wrote it up.
  
 However, there is a second supplier of the EL3N single adapters now (Suzier). In addition to being lower in price and shipping, I found the tubes easier to insert into their adapters.
  
 The Suzier adapters are slightly taller; otherwise they look almost identical.
  
 Although the four power tubes are not burned in, the sound is sweet and detailed right out of the box. But I am itching to throw in some spice into the mix to firm up the impact and slam in the bass, although this is supposed to happen over time with burn in....
  
 Wonder what a pair of BX or BL will do to that....


----------



## UntilThen

Haha is Suzier cashing in as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What I need is for someone to make a more streamline adapter and in black. Would be interesting to see what Glenn uses for his custom amp for EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  I'm looking out for your LPs with your signature on it. 
  
@oshipao  I like your Thorens 160 super. Did you have it refurbished? Does it look like this?


----------



## Kon Peki

New to this thread and loving my Elise .
  

  

  
  
 So far my favorite tubes are the pictured old stock Tung Sol 6SN7 and RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> New to this thread and loving my Elise .
> 
> So far my favorite tubes are the pictured old stock Tung Sol 6SN7 and RCA 6AS7G.


 
 Hi KP and welcome back. 
  
 Very nice photos there and you have many headphones to test Elise with and you're using Schitt Bifrost Multibit.
  
 Your setup is very neat and nice. With a HD800S, I think that is all you need for a very enjoyable system. You don't need more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Did you test it out as preamp with your active AudioEngine A2 or A5?


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> Hi KP and welcome back.
> 
> Very nice photos there and you have many headphones to test Elise with and you're using Schitt Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!  Bifrost Multibit -> Elise -> HD800S is the most enjoyable combination I've found to date, and I'm relieved that I didn't have to buy expensive tubes to get to this level of enjoyment.
  
 I did briefly try Elise as a preamp with the Audioengine A5+.  Sounds very good as well!


----------



## connieflyer

Have been trying out the Elise as a preamp, chain is computer, JRiver21, PS Audio Dac Elise 6 pack, to Harman-Kardon avr-510 to Electro Voice Sentry 5's, two way 8 inch horn, 10 inch woofer.  Just have Darlene Koldenhoven on, and her voice thru this setup, especially the horn's is amazing.  Wife just came back to listen, wondered if I had gotten a new set of speakers, assured her same ones I have had back here since early 1970's.  It is easy to see why they called them studio monitors, life like


----------



## connieflyer

Here's one to relax you UT...


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> Thanks!  Bifrost Multibit -> Elise -> HD800S is the most enjoyable combination I've found to date, and I'm relieved that I didn't have to buy expensive tubes to get to this level of enjoyment.
> 
> I did briefly try Elise as a preamp with the Audioengine A5+.  Sounds very good as well!


 

 It's true you can get really good sound from just 6SN7 and 6AS7. Besides looking good and neat, these tubes are economical too. There are varying grades of 6SN7 and 6AS7 too. I'm running Sylvania 6SN7GTB and Chatham 6520 now and it's dishing out standard Elise tone. Very musical and enjoyable.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Here's one to relax you UT...


 
 She's an amazing violinist. So much emotions  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I went to a HiFi shop to buy a Record Carbon Fibre Anti Static cleaning brush and I see all the gorgeous turntables there.... Clearaudio, Rega, Music Hall, Thorens... ok better not look too much. 
  
 This brush is an absolute essential ... I apply it to the spinning LP and was shocked at the dust the brush picks up.


----------



## mordy

Getting a little confused - it is possible that the hum comes from the using two adapters (dual and 6x) together.
  
 Tried two Visseaux 6N7G as drivers with 6 x EL3N - bad hum. I left the dual adapters with the EL3N tubes (four) in place on the 6x adapter and removed two of the 6EL3N tubes from the 6x adapter and put them into the driver sockets. Bad hum......
  
 The same exact six EL3N tubes in the same sockets, minus the 6 x adapter - no hum. And the 6x adapter by itself with six tubes is very quiet.
  
 Does anybody have an explanation?


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> It's true you can get really good sound from just 6SN7 and 6AS7. Besides looking good and neat, these tubes are economical too. There are varying grades of 6SN7 and 6AS7 too. I'm running Sylvania 6SN7GTB and Chatham 6520 now and it's dishing out standard Elise tone. Very musical and enjoyable.


 
  
 Nice!  I just bought some of Sylvanias on Ebay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301955350870?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Also some Mullard 6080s from Langrex:
  
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> Nice!  I just bought some of Sylvanias on Ebay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301955350870?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 

 Good choice. I have the same Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top with green letterings. Very clear and sweet sounding. I bought from that same seller. His tubes are pristine and the packaging is 1st class.
  
 Mullard 6080 are leaner, brighter, tighter tone and will complement your warm and lush RCA 6AS7G. 
  
 Did you get your Elise with stock tubes?


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> Good choice. I have the same Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top with green letterings. Very clear and sweet sounding. I bought from that same seller. His tubes are pristine and the packaging is 1st class.
> 
> Mullard 6080 are leaner, brighter, tighter tone and will complement your warm and lush RCA 6AS7G.
> 
> Did you get your Elise with stock tubes?


 
  
 Yes, I bought the Elise with stock tubes.  I thought it sounded great with the stock tubes as well, but the old stock Tung Sol 6SN7 and RCA 6AS7G were an improvement.


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> Yes, I bought the Elise with stock tubes.  I thought it sounded great with the stock tubes as well, but the old stock Tung Sol 6SN7 and RCA 6AS7G were an improvement.


 

 That's a good progression. You're on a journey of discovery of the various tubes. Did you have a pair of EL3N? Try that later and tell me what you think.


----------



## UntilThen

Wth... I go from Sylvania 6SN7GTB to EL3N and I go WOW... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's how it is for me. When I'm listening with 6SN7, I'd be very happy with it but as soon as I switch to EL3N, I clearly know which I prefer.
  
 Enjoy. With Elise you have a very engaging tone with whatever tubes you use. It's making my LPs come alive !!!


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> Wth... I go from Sylvania 6SN7GTB to EL3N and I go WOW...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm going to stick with 6SN7, 6AS7G, and 6080 tubes.  They sound wow enough for me, and I need to draw the line somewhere so I don't blow a ton of money and time on tube rolling.  Also, I don't like the way adapters and such look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## tonyl59

Honestly, you lot... You know what you've gone and done, don't you? You gone and persuaded me to place an order for an Elise!
I keep telling myself to stop reading these forums but the truth is, I can't resist. Now just to try to forget about it for a couple of months....


----------



## connieflyer

The wait is not that bad.  Easy for me to say now that I have mine.  Call it a chance to get to know us, and find out things about the amp before it arrives.  I learned alot while waiting for mine.  Also made some new friends, makes life interesting to be sure.


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome @tonyl59  this is one thread you must read. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we're just having a ball here. 
  
 As connieflyer says, you'll soon get to know the friendly mob here.
  
 Congrats on placing your order. You won't regret it. Just ask @Kon Peki  and all the recent owners.


----------



## mordy

Re the hum I get with double double adapters it would suggested that I need to ground something.
  
 Is there is a way to ground a bathtub adapter?  If so, which pin/paddle do I use?


----------



## oshipao

pctazhp said:


> I'm sure you will be happy with the LP. Unfortunately, sometime during the late 50s, early 60s, RCA switched from its legendary "Shaded Dog" Living Stereo line to dynagroove and the quality was never the same, but still good.
> 
> I got rid of my 2500 LPs about 10 years ago mainly because I got lazy and old, but was into vinyl for over 30 years.  I think @UntilThen
> is buying up my old collection, one LP at a time ))))




No shame in that decision. But as the others have said, make sure that dac got tubes


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp
> I'm looking out for your LPs with your signature on it.
> 
> @oshipao
> I like your Thorens 160 super. Did you have it refurbished? Does it look like this?




I have refurbished it myself. It has very few parts and easy to understand. Also, almost everything you need to know is floating around on the Internet.

Have changed mounting plate for the arm, rewired that (not me), mounted a ball bearing on the motor spindle, changed thrust plate for platter spindle, oiled all necessary parts, changed belt, adjusted the springs (this takes a while to get it right when new to it) and changed headshell ☺️ Great table for the money.


----------



## pctazhp

oshipao said:


> No shame in that decision. But as the others have said, make sure that dac got tubes


 
 Thanks, but my Bimby isn't exactly left over gruel


----------



## oshipao

pctazhp said:


> Thanks, but my Bimby isn't exactly left over gruel




I sm sure it's not  How does it look, and sound for that matter?  I have not heard of it.


----------



## mordy

Trying to make progress to find my ultimate combo of tubes - too many possibilities...
  
 What do they say Down Under - there is no substitute for kW (horsepower)?
  
 So far (w/o proper burn-in) the 6 x EL3N is a tad too polite for me - need more punch in the bass (although it may appear by time). Anyhow, threw in some New Jersey spice into the mix; a pair of Tung Sol 6BL7 ( I am sure that you know that Tung Sol tubes were made in N.J).
  
 Here is an aerial view:
  




  
 There is an added punch in the bass and sizzle at the top; the presentation is more vivid  - quite nice.  We'll see how this setup fares in the longer term. It should also be added that this combo is very quiet. I like it - the sound is very revealing.


----------



## mordy

Just played an extended drum solo with this new combo. It is the first time that the thought passed through my mind that I need to upgrade my speakers (perish the thought!!!!) because the Elise with these tubes is capable of more than my speakers can reproduce.
  
 
  
 Drum solo starts at 2:00


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> I have refurbished it myself. It has very few parts and easy to understand. Also, almost everything you need to know is floating around on the Internet.
> 
> Have changed mounting plate for the arm, rewired that (not me), mounted a ball bearing on the motor spindle, changed thrust plate for platter spindle, oiled all necessary parts, changed belt, adjusted the springs (this takes a while to get it right when new to it) and changed headshell ☺️ Great table for the money.


 
  
 I'm impressed that you did the refurbishment yourself. Looks very good.  A good condition Thorens still fetch a lot of money these days.
  
 You have a skeletal looking headshell. Are those 2 small boxes your phono preamp? As a matter of interest what cartridge are you using?
  
 You'll love it when you get Elise. It'll sound great.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Trying to make progress to find my ultimate combo of tubes - too many possibilities...
> 
> What do they say Down Under - there is no substitute for kW (horsepower)?


 
 Mordy we cannot give you too many tubes. You'll create a Megatron. 
  
 Enjoy and I'm sure it will sound massive but I don't want you to say, 'Honey I blew up the tube amp'.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> I sm sure it's not  How does it look, and sound for that matter?  I have not heard of it.


 

 There are quite a few very satisfied Bimby Multibit owners here.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> There are quite a few very satisfied Bimby Multibit owners here.


 

Ah! It's Schiit. I'm quite sure it's amazing. Have not heard it but heard of it. Good night now, need to put in some over time tomorrow for a set of... tubes?!


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> I think the subject is far more complicated than you suggest. There is a lot of information about electrical shock from AC on the internet, including such scholarly papers as: http://bme.ccny.cuny.edu/faculty/mbikson/BiksonMSafeVoltageReview.pdf
> 
> This is not a question of which tube sounds better, and it certainly shouldn't be about a "gotcha" against a fellow thread member (the originator at that)
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure if the 'gotcha' was intended at me or not, if not just ignore this. Anyway, I wasn't trying to throw a gotcha at anybody, I just happened to stumble upon the video and thought it relevant. 
  
 The problem is, the amount of current your body receives is not the same as the amount you read on your multimeter. Formula is very simple, this is basic high school stuff. Voltage = Resistance x Current. If you want to look it up it's called Ohm's law. Another way to put it is Current = Voltage / Resistance. You can touch a wire with 150A going through it without getting a shock at all -- you'll probably burn yourself as that wire would be super hot, but you wouldn't necessarily get a shock. People often say that it's the current that kills -- and this is true, BUT the amount of current depends entirely on the voltage. To calculate the amount of current, we need to now the voltage of the circuit and the resistance of a human. Human skin actually has a lot of resistance. Let's assume the worst, which is wet AND broken skin. The resistance under such circumstances could get as low as 1000 ohm. To produce 0.1A of you would need 100V.
  
 100V/1000 Ohm = 0.1A. 
  
 As you can see, the 6-12V we're playing with is in no way dangerous. This is an absolutely worst case scenario, and we still need a high voltage. 
  
 Electricity isn't always dangerous. If you don't know anything about electricity at all though, sure, a good rule of thumb is to not play around with it too much. This is completely safe however.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Re the hum I get with double double adapters it would suggested that I need to ground something.
> 
> Is there is a way to ground a bathtub adapter?  If so, which pin/paddle do I use?




Are you externally heating the double adapters?

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Or I have to find a way to add tubes to the turntable.




Yes, look for the "Bellari vp130".

It's a Moving Magnet phono preamp, so can use with MM carts or High Output Moving Coil (HOMC) carts.

They have a good rep, and a devoted following.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&LH_PrefLoc=2&_sacat=0&LH_ItemCondition=4&_nkw=bellari+vp130&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH


----------



## JazzVinyl

On the electricity front...

Stun guns have a 9 volt DC battery in them, Through transformers, they boost the voltage to anywhere between 20,000 and 150,000 volts, but at the same time lower the amperage to a very low level. 

Most folks live to tell the tale after being stun gunned...

Also consider the defibrillator that delivers an electric shock (of approx 1,000 volts) to restart your heart. Ever notice the emergency personal rub the two paddles together before they deliver the shock? Know why they do that? Because they have smeared a Jelly on one paddle, then rub both paddles together to smear the jelly on both paddles. It's the jelly next to the human skin that enables the full voltage to reach the heart.

The "Scholarly" page that pct referenced:
http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=ijepe.2010.177.181
has a link to back up it's "knowledge" thusly:

http://www.highvoltageconnection.com/articles/ElectricShockQuestions.htm

Go there and you will see the page is 404 (not found). But the fact that he was quoting from "highvoltageconnection.com" would indicate that when he said:

"Effect of frequency: Humans are very vulnerable to the effects of electric current at frequencies of 50 or 60 Hz. Currents of approximately 0.1 A"

He was talking about very high voltages, not 12 or 6.3 volts of DC or AC.

The only irresponsible thing was to say 0.1 amp kills, without mentioning the voltage delivered at 0.1 amp via what medium and for what length of duration.

Must be much higher voltage than the stun gun uses....

Cheers to *most* of the *LUCKY ONES*!!!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 What I am doing is using the same six EL3N that you use, but adding 2 6BL7 tubes. The total current draw is 8.4A of which 6.6A is provided by an external power supply capable of 15A.
  
 Since I do not have a background in electronics, can you explain what the danger is of blowing up the amp using external power for the heaters?


----------



## Kon Peki

Where did the idea come from to use EL3N tubes with Elise?  Just curious.
  
 I've been looking all over for info about EL3N and haven't seen a whole lot of reviews / testimonies outside of this thread and a couple other sites.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
 About your question: The 6 x adapter is powered externally, and I just plugged in the dual adapters into the end sockets on the 6 x adapter. As you can see, I found a way to squeeze in all six tubes on the 6 x adapter, without using the dual adapters, by spacing the EL3N further apart on it; there is not enough room placing them next to each other (the dual adapters have different spacing, and there 2 x EL3N fit side by side).


----------



## mordy

Hi KP,
  
 I think that the whole thing started as a far off suggestion by UT, and then was taken up by hypnos1 who discovered how well they work as drivers in the Elise. Afterwards people saw pictures of amps on the internet using the EL3N as power tubes as well. I think UT asked a Chinese supplier to make the adapters and he pioneered using 6x EL3N in the Elise.
  
 Hope I got the chain of events and the facts right - if not, please correct my impressions.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> I'm impressed that you did the refurbishment yourself. Looks very good.  A good condition Thorens still fetch a lot of money these days.
> 
> You have a skeletal looking headshell. Are those 2 small boxes your phono preamp? As a matter of interest what cartridge are you using?
> 
> You'll love it when you get Elise. It'll sound great.




Thank you ☺️ Yes, I do not know if Inprefer the SME headshell or this, the one I use atm is more rigid, less susceptible to vibrations. Yes, those are a Vincent PHO-08 phono stage and power supply. I am using a Ortofon OM40 Super, sounds really good. I have my eyes set on a Nagaoka MP-300/500 though. Won't be entering MC territory as I think MMs are better value when shopping in the $100-1000 area.


----------



## Lord Raven

T1
  
 Guys, do I buy these?


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> T1
> 
> Guys, do I buy these?


 
 You heard mine and like it and this is new so why not. 
  
 Hope you get it for a low price. Seller does not offer returns but you're covered by eBay money back guarantee.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Thank you ☺️ Yes, I do not know if Inprefer the SME headshell or this, the one I use atm is more rigid, less susceptible to vibrations. Yes, those are a Vincent PHO-08 phono stage and power supply. I am using a Ortofon OM40 Super, sounds really good. I have my eyes set on a Nagaoka MP-300/500 though. Won't be entering MC territory as I think MMs are better value when shopping in the $100-1000 area.


 
 The Vincent PHO-08 and Ortofon OM40 Super looks good from reviews I've read. There's a Vincent PHO-700 tube phono preamp.
  
 Good choice. Your TT must sound good.
  
 I visit this site often just to see other's turntable. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549616/post-a-photograph-of-your-turntable


----------



## Kon Peki

kon peki said:


> I'm going to stick with 6SN7, 6AS7G, and 6080 tubes.  They sound wow enough for me, and I need to draw the line somewhere so I don't blow a ton of money and time on tube rolling.  Also, I don't like the way adapters and such look
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


mordy said:


> Hi KP,
> 
> I think that the whole thing started as a far off suggestion by UT, and then was taken up by hypnos1 who discovered how well they work as drivers in the Elise. Afterwards people saw pictures of amps on the internet using the EL3N as power tubes as well. I think UT asked a Chinese supplier to make the adapters and he pioneered using 6x EL3N in the Elise.
> 
> Hope I got the chain of events and the facts right - if not, please correct my impressions.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the reply!  This thread is not good for my finances.


----------



## connieflyer

lord raven said:


> T1
> 
> Guys, do I buy these?


 

 They have them at amazon for $769.00.  Also amazon gives you 30 day return if you are not happy.  The ebay does not offer returns, so if there is a problem with them you would have to do a warranty return to Beyer, if this seller is an authorized seller.  I bought a pair from amazon a while back and had a problem with the left driver getting muddy in the bass, after three weeks, so I returne them to amazon for refund and got the Senn 800 instead.  If you want to chance a bid on ebay, that is up to you, but the price on amazon is firm, and they will stand behind the purchase.  Ebay you have to open a case with them and since it clearly states no returns, don't know how that would work out.   http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-T1-Audiophile-Stereo-Headphone/dp/B0031RD3YY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1463669726&sr=8-2&keywords=beyerdynamic+t1
  
 Good luck either way.  I really liked the sound of them and the comfort, UT also has them.  I did not want the second version, that was why I bought the t1 on amazon.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> The Vincent PHO-08 and Ortofon OM40 Super looks good from reviews I've read. There's a Vincent PHO-700 tube phono preamp.
> 
> Good choice. Your TT must sound good.
> 
> ...




It sure does. I was really interested in the PHO-700, but I eventually decided to go a little more budget. Also the phono pre can always be powered on, So I do not have to wait for tubes to get warm. However, I really would like to try one with tubes. But I leave it like this for the moment.

Do you use a passive line selector or similiar when switching between dac and turntable?


----------



## mordy

Update on the 6EL/2BL combo:
  
 Something just happened now on the second day - the sound stage opened up: a wall of delicious sound. Just sitting here, tapping my feet and grinning from ear to ear....
  
 Must have passed some burning in milestone, and it is still very early in the game for the four EL power tubes.
  




  
 These EL3N tubes are made in Holland. No doubt the design was inspired by the Dutch Royal Guard:


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> These EL3N tubes are made in Holland.




Hej, Mordy!

Despite the claim, they were likely made in the 'other Australia'.




oskari said:


> Guys, here's something I saw on that auction site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do they have the _A_ factory code?


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> It sure does. I was really interested in the PHO-700, but I eventually decided to go a little more budget. Also the phono pre can always be powered on, So I do not have to wait for tubes to get warm. However, I really would like to try one with tubes. But I leave it like this for the moment.
> 
> *Do you use a passive line selector or similiar when switching between dac and turntable?*


 
 I switch RCA connectors manually. 
  
 Is there such a passive line selector? Wouldn't mind getting one.


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> Thanks for the reply!  This thread is not good for my finances.


 

 Does that mean you bought them? 
  
 I was not involved with the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapters. I don't know who arrange that but it worked well in the power slots in Elise. I simply use it.
  
 I liaise with Mrs Xu Ling on the single EL3N to 6SN7 adapter with the important pins connections from @hypnos1, credits to him for trialling / testing the EL3N tubes in Elise as drivers and we all know now that it sounded lovely. This pentode is used as a strapped triode in Elise. Hence the adapter will only work for Elise or any amp that uses 2 6SN7 drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I switch RCA connectors manually.
> 
> Is there such a passive line selector? Wouldn't mind getting one.


 
 UT:  You could try something like this. In my old audiophile days, a lot of audiophiles thought that a switch box like this adversely affected SQ, but I have no idea if you would notice that. I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to replace the RCA plugs you would be using and rewire the internal connections if you thought that would improve the box.
  
 http://amazon.com/Dophee-Switch-Selector-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B014GSX0ZI?ie=UTF8&keywords=rca%20switch&qid=1463690749&ref_=sr_1_6&sr=8-6


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoWaP4skv8[/VIDEO]

you GO, Joe


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> I switch RCA connectors manually.
> 
> Is there such a passive line selector? Wouldn't mind getting one.




I understand ☺️ That's what I do too 

Something like this has gotten my attention lately: http://www.mfspdesigns.com/index.php/en/all-products/switch-box/switch-box-rca-3in-2out-detail

There are less and more extravagant ones out there, but this seems like a good one.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> I understand ☺️ That's what I do too
> 
> Something like this has gotten my attention lately: http://www.mfspdesigns.com/index.php/en/all-products/switch-box/switch-box-rca-3in-2out-detail
> 
> There are less and more extravagant ones out there, but this seems like a good one.


 

 Yeah this one looks a bit better quality and you can get it in matching black too. 
  
 3 inputs... that means there's room for Open Reel @pctazhp


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Yeah this one looks a bit better quality and you can get it in matching black too.
> 
> 3 inputs... that means there's room for Open Reel @pctazhp




Exactly


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> Does that mean you bought them?
> 
> I was not involved with the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapters. I don't know who arrange that but it worked well in the power slots in Elise. I simply use it.
> 
> I liaise with Mrs Xu Ling on the single EL3N to 6SN7 adapter with the important pins connections from @hypnos1, credits to him for trialling / testing the EL3N tubes in Elise as drivers and we all know now that it sounded lovely. This pentode is used as a strapped triode in Elise. Hence the adapter will only work for Elise or any amp that uses 2 6SN7 drivers.


 
  
 I did buy them.  I bought 6 tubes but plan to only use them as drivers.  Hope I bought the right adapters!


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> I did buy them.  I bought 6 tubes but plan to only use them as drivers.  Hope I bought the right adapters!


 

 They are the right adapters. 6 tubes !!! You sure have faith before listening to it.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> oshipao said:
> 
> 
> > It sure does. I was really interested in the PHO-700, but I eventually decided to go a little more budget. Also the phono pre can always be powered on, So I do not have to wait for tubes to get warm. However, I really would like to try one with tubes. But I leave it like this for the moment.
> ...


 

 Here is one
 http://www.goldpt.com/sw4.html


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Here is one
> http://www.goldpt.com/sw4.html


 

 This is even better quality.   High grade silver plated copper.
  
 You can use it as 4 in 1 or 1 in 4... now that's versatile.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Here is one
> ...


 

 A little expensive though.


----------



## UntilThen

True at $376 I can get the Vincent PHO-08 phono preamp or a Cambridge Audio 651P... or buy a lot of LPs...


----------



## mordy

Hej Oskari,
  
 All the EL3N tubes I have have the factory code A on them, so it seems that Made in Holland means designed in Holland and built in Austria by WIRAG - Wiener Radio Werke. Could AG stand for Aktiengesellschaft? (Stock Corporation)
  
 There are two lines on the tube: M512
                                                   A4B
  
 Does A4B mean WIRAG 1964 February? M512?


----------



## mordy

Would this type of input selector work?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-28750-Composite-Selector/dp/B0032ANC8M/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1463703856&sr=8-15&keywords=RCA+cable+input+selector
  
  





  
  
   
 

  




  
 Not too expensive...


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Would this type of input selector work?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-28750-Composite-Selector/dp/B0032ANC8M/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1463703856&sr=8-15&keywords=RCA+cable+input+selector
> 
> ...


 

 Yes just don't use the video inputs


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yeah this one looks a bit better quality and you can get it in matching black too.
> 
> 3 inputs... that means there's room for Open Reel @pctazhp


 
 Now all I need to do is find one of these like I actually owned at one time:


----------



## JazzVinyl

I don't think reel to reel tape is avail to purchase new, anymore, and has not been for more than a decade? Correct me if I am mistaken.

I had many a fine r2r player through the early 90's but when I heard tape would no longer be manufactured, I phased them out.

I also saw that a lot of the magnetic material was coming off of my 70's and 80's tapes, and figured the medium was doomed.


----------



## DecentLevi

What do you mean magnetic material was coming off your tapes - like the film was disintegrating or something? I still have a few tapes (cassette) all the way from the late 80's that still work.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> What do you mean magnetic material was coming off your tapes - like the film was disintegrating or something? I still have a few tapes all the way from the late 80's that still work.




I have lots of cassettes that still work great. Some recorded in the 1970's.

I mean after playing r2r tapes, there was lots of brown magnetic material that was coming off, all over the heads, the capstans and even seen on the deck of the player. The magnetic material was literally coming off the acetate base. Causing dropouts in sound.

At that time, I lived in a very moist/humid area, which may well have played havoc on the life of my r2r tape collection.


:rolleyes:


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> I liaise with Mrs Xu Ling on the single EL3N to 6SN7 adapter with the important pins connections from @hypnos1, credits to him for trialling / testing the EL3N tubes in Elise as drivers and we all know now that it sounded lovely. This pentode is used as a strapped triode in Elise. Hence the adapter will only work for Elise or any amp that uses 2 6SN7 drivers.


 
  
 I saw this in another thread:
  

  
  
 Source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/3510#post_12514342
  
  
 Should I be concerned?  Could using the EL3Ns damage the amp over time?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I liaise with Mrs Xu Ling on the single EL3N to 6SN7 adapter with the important pins connections from @hypnos1, credits to him for trialling / testing the EL3N tubes in Elise as drivers and we all know now that it sounded lovely. This pentode is used as a strapped triode in Elise. Hence the adapter will only work for Elise or any amp that uses 2 6SN7 drivers.




Not "everyone" thinks the EL3N "sounds Lovely".

I am not a fan, and I know of others who also do not agree, that they are gods gift to sound quality.

YMMV

:rolleyes:


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> I saw this in another thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nothing to be concerned about or Lukasz would have alerted me to it. 

I've been running these tubes on solid hours since beginning Jan 2016. H1 and many others have just as many hours if not more.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> All the EL3N tubes I have have the factory code A on them, so it seems that Made in Holland means designed in Holland and built in Austria by WIRAG - Wiener Radio Werke. Could AG stand for Aktiengesellschaft? (Stock Corporation)




Yes, it does. This was a Philips company. There were other makers but these later examples seem to have been made by WIRAG.




> There are two lines on the tube: M512
> A4B
> 
> Does A4B mean WIRAG 1964 February? M512?




Yes, it does. _MS_ is the type code for EL3N. _12_ is a bit weird because there shouldn't be more than one character for the change code there.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Not "everyone" thinks the EL3N "sounds Lovely".
> 
> I am not a fan, and I know of others who also do not agree, that they are gods gift to sound quality.
> 
> YMMV


 
  
 Afraid I would take Glenn's opinion over anyone else's , lol!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...


----------



## hypnos1

kon peki said:


> I saw this in another thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi KP....glad to see you're delighted with your Elise - the sound can only get even better!!
  
 As UT says, the EL3Ns have now been running in a good few amps for quite a while now - mine for many hundreds of hours - and nothing untoward whatsoever...so NO WORRIES!
  
 As for the sound quality, once more I repeat the VAST MAJORITY of users agree with UT's (and my own!) findings. I am quite sure you will also be very pleased with them...unless you're extremely unlucky LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...ENJOY...and...HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Afraid I would take Glenn's opinion over anyone else's , lol!..:wink_face: ...




+1

Glenn saying that EL3N is a fine sounding tube is a solid endorsement.

Far too many on this thread love the EL3N sound.


----------



## Kon Peki

Who is Glenn?


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Afraid I would take Glenn's opinion over anyone else's , lol!..:wink_face: ...




When he agrees with you, you do :wink_face:

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> +1
> 
> Glenn saying that EL3N is a fine sounding tube is a solid endorsement.
> 
> Far too many on this thread love the EL3N sound.




But it is *not* a unanimous opinion.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL what about T1, is there a unanimous opinion about it?


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> LOL what about T1, is there a unanimous opinion about it?




LOL v1 or v2?


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL v1 or v2?


 
 v1 LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Afraid I would take Glenn's opinion over anyone else's , lol!..:wink_face: ...




Afraid you didn't take his opinion of multiple 6BL7's bettering 6AS7G, did you? :wink_face:


----------



## DecentLevi

Well Glenn is the owner of what is basically Elise's competitor, which may actually have her outdone in some ways


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Afraid you didn't take his opinion of multiple 6BL7's bettering 6AS7G, did you?


 
  
 Please JV...you're not doing yourself any favours here alas...


----------



## aqsw

lord raven said:


> LOL what about T1, is there a unanimous opinion about it?




Not unanimous. I sent my T1.1s back. Liked the Ethers better, but 99% of the people here really like them. They are a very good phone with the Elise, but I already had the Ethers
and I thought these woild be fantastic with all the endorsements on this thread. I was disappointed, and since I had better and more comfortable (IMO) phones, they were returned.

I was worried about the low impedence on the Ethers, but once I found my proper tubes, this became a moot point.


----------



## pctazhp

I feel a little sorry for newbies who are waiting for their Elises or contemplating a purchase. They see some pretty intense disagreement on this thread about tubes and headphones.
  
 I can only go on my own personal experience. I've tried many different tube combinations and went through an intense comparison of the T1 Gen 2 with HD800S.
  
 With the headphones, I kept the HD800S and returned the T1, but could easily live with either. I haven't heard the first generation of either headphone.
  
 With tube combinations, my two favorite are EL3N drivers/5998 powers and the 6 X EL3N (2 drivers and 4 powers). The later is really my favorite. It is absolute magic and just seems to do everything right. I have had some problem with distortion, but with continuing burn-in the distortion has disappeared on most recordings. I am confident it will disappear completely, and in the meantime 6 X EL3N is my go to combination.
  
 I should point out that I have a personal preference to avoid external power, primarily because I am so lazy I hate turning two different switches off and on every time I listen )))
  
 I don't want to denigrate the experience of anyone else here whose experience may be at variance with mine. At the same time, I would be pretty confident in advising new owners that I don't think they will be disappointed if they end up where I am.


----------



## supersonic395

I'll be running the Elise with the Beyerdynamic T1.2, so will provide impressions but only once I have sorted out my music.

Btw got the shipping notification of the Elise   

Whilst my Elise will have stock driver tubes, I opted for upgraded power tubes for dat bass  

I can't recall the name of the power tubes but I'll keep you lot posted once it arrives...most likely early next week as it's being delivered to the UK


----------



## RedBull

I am mainly love Elise because of the tube combination used. I love 6as7 and i love 6sn7. i never heard both tubes used together, but i believe the combination is just going to be great.

The closest amp topology i've heard and owned was tha-337 with 2x 6as7 and 2x 6sj7 which i love the sound very much.
I sold it because of the dual volume pot which drove me nuts after awhile.

Somehow so far i have preference for bigger tubes than the miniature ones.
At least in Ember, the different between ANY minis that i have and 6sn7 tubes is apparent, at least to me. 
The differences are mainly in SOUNDSTAGE and frequency extension, high and low.
Perhaps i haven't really tried the best of the mini tubes, but with all tubes that i have, all 6sn7 kills all mini tubes easily (for my preference).
So hence, when i know that Eliae is using all big size tubes, i was excited and full of hopes.
Not many OTL amps out there are using all full size tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Agree with you that it is a bother to use an external power supply and voltage regulator. This is what I have to do to use my enhanced 6 x EL3N PLUS (+ 2x6BL7) set-up:
  
 Current Starting Procedure 8 cyl Elise:
   
 

 1) Flick on power to the magneto, I mean the PS/voltage regulator
  
 2) Wait 50 sec for green LED to light up on voltage regulator
  
 3) Check green light still on - yep
  
 4) Turn on Elise - blue light on - check
  
 5) Wait 30 sec for preamp to warm up
  
 6) Turn on integrated Sony amp
  
 7) Wait until Sony amp emits two clicks to get up to speed
  
 7) Push speaker button on Sony amp to connect speakers
  
 8) Wait about 1/2 hour for all tubes to warm up for full potential
  
 But it is worth the wait: WOW!!!! This sound is MAGICAL!
  
 Just take a dictionary of audio adjectives and start piling them on: Superb, pinpoint imaging, sub bass, exquisite -you fill it in, 3D sound stage, timbre, detail, DETAIL, DETAIL, and on and on......OK, just one word then: ADDICTIVE, I mean totally.....


----------



## mordy

Hi RedBull,
  
 It is very interesting, and brought to my attention by hypnos1, that the best sounding tubes in the Elise are ST shaped (ST=Shoulder Type aka Coke Bottle) tubes. These are all quite big.
  
 Whatever it is, old technology, build quality, size, - these types of tubes sound great.
  
 6AS7, 5998, 6520, 7236, 2339, A1834, 421, 6N7G, EL3N etc etc
 .


----------



## DavidA

@mordy, your start up procedure sounds like me getting out of bed after drinking way too much wine and other alcoholic beverages with my GF and her friends after a sleep over


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> But it is *not* a unanimous opinion.


 

 It's too bad you can't hear the good sonics of EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be running the Elise with the Beyerdynamic T1.2, so will provide impressions but only once I have sorted out my music.
> 
> Btw got the shipping notification of the Elise
> 
> ...


 

 Exciting news SS. 
  
 Elise will sound good even with stock tubes on Led Zep.


----------



## UntilThen

redbull said:


> I am mainly love Elise because of the tube combination used. I love 6as7 and i love 6sn7. i never heard both tubes used together, but i believe the combination is just going to be great.
> 
> The closest amp topology i've heard and owned was tha-337 with 2x 6as7 and 2x 6sj7 which i love the sound very much.
> I sold it because of the dual volume pot which drove me nuts after awhile.
> ...


 

 You're not wrong there RedBull. 6SN7 and 6AS7 will sound great with Elise. Flick on the power switch and 30 secs later you're good to go. Just enjoy the music.
  
 That's what I do these days. I'm running a pair of EL3N as drivers and a pair of Chatham 6520.


----------



## hypnos1

kon peki said:


> Who is Glenn?


 
 Hi KP....Glenn - member 2359glenn, with his own thread - is a bespoke amp builder in the US who makes some very nice units indeed, using a wide variety of tubes, transformers and topologies. He graciously advised me on the pin wiring to enable the use of the C3g driver in our Elises, which I duly adapted...the rest is history, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  


redbull said:


> I am mainly love Elise because of the tube combination used. I love 6as7 and i love 6sn7. i never heard both tubes used together, but i believe the combination is just going to be great.
> 
> The closest amp topology i've heard and owned was tha-337 with 2x 6as7 and 2x 6sj7 which i love the sound very much.
> I sold it because of the dual volume pot which drove me nuts after awhile.
> ...


 
  
 Yo RB...this was the reasoning behind my approach to Feliks-Audio - when I found how these tubes transformed the humble LittleDots (mine the MKIV SE), I was determined to try and find an (affordable!) amp with the 6SN7/6AS7G combo....and couldn't find one!... I just couldn't believe it when Lukasz took up the challenge! And boy, nothing in my years of music listening has brought me more joy than this little beauty...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I'm sure you too will gain a great deal of unbridled pleasure from your own Elise...


----------



## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> I'll be running the Elise with the Beyerdynamic T1.2, so will provide impressions but only once I have sorted out my music.
> 
> Btw got the shipping notification of the Elise
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great news s395...really looking forward to how you find her with your T1.2 - I just LOVE my T1.1s...(intrigued as to what powers you will be using!)...not long now...!!


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @mordy, your start up procedure sounds like me getting out of bed after drinking way too much wine and other alcoholic beverages with my GF and her friends after a sleep over


 

 What an idyllic lifestyle in Hawaii, David. Makes me want to visit it again soon.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Exciting news SS.
> 
> Elise will sound good even with stock tubes on Led Zep.







hypnos1 said:


> Great news s395...really looking forward to how you find her with your T1.2 - I just LOVE my T1.1s...(intrigued as to what powers you will be using!)...not long now...!!




Cheers dudes...looking forward to it!


----------



## RedBull

mordy said:


> Hi RedBull,
> 
> It is very interesting, and brought to my attention by hypnos1, that the best sounding tubes in the Elise are ST shaped (ST=Shoulder Type aka Coke Bottle) tubes. These are all quite big.
> 
> ...




With tubes, size matters, the bigger the better 




untilthen said:


> You're not wrong there RedBull. 6SN7 and 6AS7 will sound great with Elise. Flick on the power switch and 30 secs later you're good to go. Just enjoy the music.
> 
> That's what I do these days. I'm running a pair of EL3N as drivers and a pair of Chatham 6520.




Seems like el3n is unavoidable, hope i managed to get it before it runs out, like fossil fuels.
How's el3n gain compared to standard 6sn7? Same? Lower or higher? , considering it is not running at full power.



hypnos1 said:


> Hi KP....Glenn - member 2359glenn, with his own thread - is a bespoke amp builder in the US who makes some very nice units indeed, using a wide variety of tubes, transformers and topologies. He graciously advised me on the pin wiring to enable the use of the C3g driver in our Elises, which I duly adapted...the rest is history, lol!  ....
> 
> 
> Yo RB...this was the reasoning behind my approach to Feliks-Audio - when I found how these tubes transformed the humble LittleDots (mine the MKIV SE), I was determined to try and find an (affordable!) amp with the 6SN7/6AS7G combo....and couldn't find one!... I just couldn't believe it when Lukasz took up the challenge! And boy, nothing in my years of music listening has brought me more joy than this little beauty... ...I'm sure you too will gain a great deal of unbridled pleasure from your own Elise...:bigsmile_face:




We are in the same boat. 6sn7, 6as7 infection.

I am curious why bigger tubes sounds wider, maybe an expert like @2359Glenn have some opinion? Electrons swimming in wider space perhaps?


----------



## RedBull

Do you think Elise can run 6sj7?
It can really sound good, but very hard to get.


----------



## UntilThen

RedBull, a pair of EL3N as drivers have similar or higher gain than a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB in my setup. Surprising huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Same goes for C3G. These are pentodes but we're running it as strapped triodes in Elise. In DIY forums, strapped triode EL3N sounds sweeter, clearer.


----------



## aqsw

The guy that msde my dac also makes amps, preamps, rectifiers, etc. He only uses big tubes. He doesn't believe in the little guys for his products.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Agree with you that it is a bother to use an external power supply and voltage regulator. This is what I have to do to use my enhanced 6 x EL3N PLUS (+ 2x6BL7) set-up:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Mordy)) 20 years ago, or maybe even 10, I could have handled that. I guess it may just be too many dead brain cells now, but I crave simplicity and lack of clutter. SQ is still important, but not first priority any more. By the way, I also (in addition to the other combos I like) think C3G drivers with quad EL3N powers is a good combo. I agree with you that the bottle shape tubes seem to generally be superior, but C3G might be exception. Especially, when I need to listen at the bottom of the ocean.


----------



## connieflyer

Wow, Mordy your start up routine sounds just like when I had a hot young lady (way long ago) over for drinks?  Took all the right steps to "enjoy" the music


----------



## pctazhp

@JazzVinyl. I know I should just keep out of this. But I'm a lawyer and I guess it is just not in my dna to shut-up when I should!!!
  
 I have said many times that my own personal preference is to avoid external power. But there was a time when I was very tempted to order the Triad transformer, the 6 X 6BL7 adapter and a 3rd pair of 6BL7s. What stopped me was the intensity of your opposition to EL3Ns. That was totally at variance with my own experience with the EL3Ns, and I just didn't want to go to the expense and time to follow your recommendation of the 6 X 6BL7s as we seemed to be coming from such different places. And you personal attacks on @hypnos1 didn't help. None of us would be here were if not for him, and I think he (along with every other member of this thread) deserves respect.
  
 I wish we could all just realize that each of us have different experiences with tubes and headphones, describe our own experiences and respect the experience of others.
  
 There is one thing that bonds us all together - the Elise amp. We often like to describe ourselves as "the lucky ones" and indeed we are. I fear that our internal bickering may turn off others who visit this thread and decide that Elise is not for them. I think we do those people a disservice.
  
 I'm sure I have been guilty of stirring the pot, and I'm going to try to avoid that in the future. I truly believe the most important people here are the visitors who are considering an Elise, those who are waiting for their new Elise to arrive and want to get a little advance start on tube-rolling, and those new owners who are looking for helpful suggestions.


----------



## pctazhp

In the interest of peace and love


----------



## Oskari

I've always liked this track. And I still do!


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/zTM69cXUXUQ[/VIDEO]


----------



## Oskari

And that reminds me of this:


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/pHCwLA_nOvI[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @JazzVinyl. I know I should just keep out of this. But I'm a lawyer and I guess it is just not in my dna to shut-up when I should!!!
> 
> I have said many times that my own personal preference is to avoid external power. But there was a time when I was very tempted to order the Triad transformer, the 6 X 6BL7 adapter and a 3rd pair of 6BL7s. What stopped me was the intensity of your opposition to EL3Ns. That was totally at variance with my own experience with the EL3Ns, and I just didn't want to go to the expense and time to follow your recommendation of the 6 X 6BL7s as we seemed to be coming from such different places. And you personal attacks on @hypnos1 didn't help. None of us would be here were if not for him, and I think he (along with every other member of this thread) deserves respect.
> 
> ...


 

 I totally agree with this. Show some respect for @hypnos1 as the starter of this thread and the person responsible for bringing Elise to us.
 I will not stand by and see anyone slug his name that is for sure.


----------



## connieflyer

@Hypnos1 had quite a vision, and the energy and fore sight to see what could be done, if not available to seek it out.  I for one, am very grateful for his pioneering efforts and for Lukasz and his father to take up the challenge and they worked together, and we have reaped what was sowed. This is an amazing amp, it is sleek, it is discrete, it is simple in design, yet sophisticated in it's execution, nothing extra, nothing to distract from the simple beauty of a piece of equipment, so well thought out and brought to market at a very fair price.   And then another thank you for all who have tried a tube here a different one there, the what if's that went through their minds trying to make a really good amp even better.  The stock amp is great, the additional tubes and adapters, have made this something to enjoy, as well as a hobby of sorts.  It has not only built a great product, but also brought people together from all over the globe, from all disciplines to form a community that we all enjoy.  All you have to do, is look at the page count, and look back at the start date, and know that this is more than just a sum of it's parts.  Thank you all,  Don


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, I got the two dual EL3N adapters today and only 1 of each pair are getting heat. I first noticed this by standing over it and seeing only two out of the four tubes in the power's seat lighting up. Surprisingly there is still sound, but it does seem quite similar to the quad El3N setup.
  
 Here you can see only the two outer tubes are lighting up

  
  
 Then after swapping the dual adapters R/L, now the problem is inversed with the two inner tubes lighting up instead

  
 Obviously the EL3N's are working, so it would somehow seem a problem with the adapter or the Elise. I did check and the label on these dual adapters and it certainly does say dual EL3N to 6SN7. Also the volume is breaking up quite early on my HD 650's with this. So off it goes for now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This sound like a question for @mordy or @hpamdr possibly...


----------



## connieflyer

Mine work as all tubes glow nicely, sorry to hear this


----------



## DecentLevi

EDIT: reversing the order didn't cause different tubes to light up, but just changed the orientation of the same problem. And oddly, when tapping the tubes I heard microphonics from even the ones that were not lit as well, leading me to believe the tubes are all connected, but just not all getting heat - wonder if that's any good?


----------



## DecentLevi

Upon closer look, it seems the two 'black' tubes are very loose in their adapter socket, then after removing those it appears the slots in the adapters had been inverted too far from when I was trying to pry those SOB's in to that helluva tight fit. So looks like I've gotta spend a few hours playing around with inserting metal pieces in the adapters to fill the gap, as I had already done on another adapter.
  
 But from what I'm hearing so far - holy mother of God, the Dual El3N + quad 6BL7 is by far the best sound yet! It sounds more vivid and detailed than the El3N + quad 6J5, which is a milestone! I'd be surprised if the 6El3N could really outdo this too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But the downside is that my quad 6BL7 are the loudest of all so I'm having to cut that with an external volume limiter until a better solution is found for my 2-prong outlet room
  
  
 where the heck is _Mr Humphrey_ when you need him?


----------



## DecentLevi

Any minors around don't look. Sorry but there's only one word I can think of to describe the sound I'm hearing from this dual El3N + quad GE 6BL7: pornographic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
EARGASMS NONSTOP! I'VE NEVER HEARD MUSIC LIKE THIS AT HOME BEFORE IN MY 37-YEAR LIFE. My friends this setup has taken me DEEEEEP into summit-fi territory, and making me think at how lowly 95% of all the rigs I've ever tried at Can Jam's sound in comparison!!!


----------



## DecentLevi

Well guys, I've tried a Loony amount of Tune combinations (or should I say Tubes, LOL), and I've found what I'm confident will be my best ever for the Elise... but wait, back up a second...
  
 I fixed the sixtet EL3N setup: had to insert 4 wires between the contacts on one, and two on the other dual adapter to fill the electrical contact gaps.
  
 Here are my initial impressions after several hours:
  

*Drivers*​*Powers*​*ranking*​*comments*​EL3N2x 6BL7 + 2x 6SN74​Volume imbalance, each channel has own signatureC3Gquad EL3N5.5​something is amiss and volume breaks upC3G quad 6SN7 (v2)6​bright, clear, snappy, lacking in weightEL3N​quad EL3N​6.5​Best stage but slow PRaT, overall darker than neutral. volume breaks up​EL3N​quad 6SN7 (v1)​8​sweet, tonally correct, good dynamics​EL3N​quad 6J5 (straight)​8​airy, pleasing, almost perfect​C3G quad 6BL78.5​sweet, clear, crisp, good impace, good tonality but lacking in weightEL3N​quad 6BL7 GE​9​vivid, lush, engaging, good dynamics​EL3N​quad 6SN7 (v2)​9.2​vibrant, tonally correct, perfect FR + extension​EL3N 2x 6BL7 + 2x 6SN7 intermixed9.5​sweet, perfect tonality, vividness, clarity, dynamics, lushness, extension
  
 Do note my impressions may change over time / burn-in etc., and no UntilThen I didn't do this to spite you, and actually much of this was thanks to you! We just all hear things a little differently


----------



## richdytch

I'm currently about 50 hours into burn in with the stock tubes. Got el3n, adapters and some Mullard 6080 on the way. They were cheap so will satiate my immediate appetite to try some alternative drivers. Still need to research where to get Chathams, exactly what I'm looking for, etc. But there's no rush.

I have noticed something slightly odd as the stock tubes have burned in... The amp occasionally emits a 'note' which sounds like a string being plucked. It has a sudden attack and decays over about 3 seconds ... a very soft sound. It's quite obviously based on mains frequency. Once the tubes are warmed up it seems to happen between every 10 seconds and once a minute. Very odd. It's generally fairly quiet and rarely interferes with the music I'm listening to, although when the amp has been switched on for several hours it does increase in volume. I could actually hear it over a very quiet passage of music the other night. To my non electronic brain it sounds like something symptomatic of a charge being built up and discharged in a capacitor... although that clumsy conjecture is the limit of my electronics knowledge.

I tried some 1954 RCA 6sn7gt bottom getter tubes in place of the stock Tung Sols and the sound didn't occur, although I didn't leave them in long enough to know whether it has really been eradicated. 

*edit* - I should point out that this sound only occurs when using the elise as a preamp, through my speakers... It doesn't occur in headphones.

Has anyone else encountered this phenomenon? 

Rich


----------



## Kon Peki

jazzvinyl said:


> Not "everyone" thinks the EL3N "sounds Lovely".
> 
> I am not a fan, and I know of others who also do not agree, that they are gods gift to sound quality.
> 
> YMMV


 
  


hypnos1 said:


> Afraid I would take Glenn's opinion over anyone else's , lol!..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Afraid you didn't take his opinion of multiple 6BL7's bettering 6AS7G, did you?


 
  
  


hypnos1 said:


> Please JV...you're not doing yourself any favours here alas...


 
  


pctazhp said:


> I feel a little sorry for newbies who are waiting for their Elises or contemplating a purchase. They see some pretty intense disagreement on this thread about tubes and headphones.
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't want to denigrate the experience of anyone else here whose experience may be at variance with mine. At the same time, I would be pretty confident in advising new owners that I don't think they will be disappointed if they end up where I am.


 
  


untilthen said:


> It's too bad you can't hear the good sonics of EL3N.


 
  


pctazhp said:


> ...
> 
> I wish we could all just realize that each of us have different experiences with tubes and headphones, describe our own experiences and respect the experience of others.
> 
> There is one thing that bonds us all together - the Elise amp. We often like to describe ourselves as "the lucky ones" and indeed we are. I fear that our internal bickering may turn off others who visit this thread and decide that Elise is not for them. I think we do those people a disservice...


 
  
  
 As someone new to Elise and this thread, the one thing I find off-putting is that it _seems_ like when one person doesn't like something that everyone else is hyped about, their opinion gets disrespected.  JV doesn't like EL3N.  So what?  Why challenge that or imply that he or she has bad hearing?  This stuff is subjective anyway.  I personally found it useful to know that not everyone thinks EL3N sound great.
  
 Maybe this is all just about some earlier bickering in the thread carrying over rather than a general intolerance to negative opinions, but it comes across as the latter.


----------



## pctazhp

@Kon Peki:  I don't know how to post multiple quotes, but if you search @JazzVinyl posts on EL3Ns, you will see he doesn't just not like them, he REALLY dislikes them and has made that point many times. For example see post #1049:

_"You mean 2031, one FDD20 and one ECC31 as drivers. Still one of the best combos avail...anyone who says different didn't try it (I guess aqsw tried them and had hum problems) everyone else who tried them, had no problem wrapping their heads around the concept.

 It was re-visiting 2031 that woke me up to the reality of EL3N, and how really really BAD they sound (to me)."_
  
But he REALLY liked them, before he REALLY disliked them. See for example posts like #5176:
  
_*"EL3N* impressions continued....

*ORGANIC* and *VINYL-ISH*

 Are both good words to describe the sound. As are *LUSH* and *FULL*.

 I will definitely *DEFINITELY* say as well that I am hearing things I never heard before on recordings that I
 am very familiar with. A David Sanborn/Bob James LP, "Double Vision" side 1 last song: "Moon Tune" there were a myriad of sonic treats never heard before.

 There is also something about the presentation, it's more real, more "exactly reproduced" as though the instruments were in the room and your standing nearby, your own personal show.

 Hard to describe, but kind of like the timbre is *SO REAL* that it's no longer an *ILLUSION* of real, but *REAL*.

 They continue to make the *SENN's* the best cans I have ever heard 

 Could be the *EL3N/5998 combo*, could be that different powers would make these work better with the DT-990's.
 I am so enamoured with them paired with 5998's that I probably won't find out today, how they do with different powers 

 Also...seems to me that it's like the "*Loudness*" switch is on - that classic SS amps used to have. You have this full wide bottom brought out that is addictive and makes you *NEVER* not want to turn it off... makes everything way more lush/organic/fun.

 Also tried a couple of Vinyl records as source...HECK YEAH!!! This also makes the vinyl sound like you have your *"loudness" switch on"*...I LOVE it!!! Digital more vinyl, and vinyl presented with the *Loudness Switch ON*, this was missing, previously....

*Virtual Reality for the Music LOVER!!!*

 Thank you *Feliks/Elise*! Thank You *H1*, Thank You *UT*!!!

 This is truly a *JOY*....!!!!

 If anyone had a turntable and records they have not heard for years, this IS the ticket to bring it into the *Joyous Light Of Day*!!"_
  
My point to him was that his current intense dislike of the EL3N was at such variance with my experience and therefore I was not inclined to follow his advice regarding all that was necessary to try the 6X6BL7 adapter.
  
I personally don't have a particular issue with 6BL7s. I can get pretty good results running one per channel in the power slots with EL3N as drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi. Thanks so much for your report. You definitely have been putting in the hours )) Two questions, if you don't mind.
  
 First, have you run any comparisons with EL3Ns as drivers and single-per-channel  6AS7G, 5998, 6520 or 7236 tubes in the power slots?
  
 Second, are you using external power? According to my calculations, with EL3N drivers and 4 X 6BL7s as power tubes you are drawing 7.8 amps. Seems a little high to me without external power.
  
 Thanks again.
  
 Edit:  Sorry, third question)) How do you compare running dual 6BL7s per channel with just a single 6BL7 per channel, both with EL3N as drivers?


----------



## JerseyD

kon peki said:


> As someone new to Elise and this thread, the one thing I find off-putting is that it _seems_ like when one person doesn't like something that everyone else is hyped about, their opinion gets disrespected.  JV doesn't like EL3N.  So what?  Why challenge that or imply that he or she has bad hearing?  This stuff is subjective anyway.  I personally found it useful to know that not everyone thinks EL3N sound great.
> 
> Maybe this is all just about some earlier bickering in the thread carrying over rather than a general intolerance to negative opinions, but it comes across as the latter.




Agreed. If I have learned anything selling audio gear, it is that listening preferences are highly subjective. That is not to say that learning about other people's preferences is not useful. It is. But if you disagree with someone's preferences, that does not mean that one of you is wrong, and the other right. Let's all learn from each other and appreciate our differences.

I am anxiously awaiting my first Elise and Esspresivo units and am excited to become a US dealer for them, but I am bowled over by all the opinions regarding tube options. Without combing through 10,600 posts, are there any widely accepted tube pairings considered superior to the stock options?


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @Kon Peki.
  
 I can certainly understand your point, and am really sorry that's how it may appear.
  
 One would have to study carefully related posts going back a long way to get a clearer picture on this, but @pctazhp has given some idea of the "confusion/conflicting elements" involved that have unfortunately led to a certain "frustration"...and we are all only human, lol!
  
 None of us denies the choices people make re. equipment, and everyone is most certainly entitled to their own opinions of course. But all we ask is that such opinions, when negative, are made in a balanced, consistent and fair manner, with the usual caveats that they may well be down to unavoidable problems (compatibility, etc.) within one's own particular system (or bad tubes, for example)...or that it is simply down to differences in personal preference. Nobody is ever denigrated for such individual experiences.
  
 However, blanket derogatory opinions made _without_ such balanced corroboration can surely attract a less-than-sympathetic response, and which has been the case here in question, I'm afraid.
  
 I will just add that I have on one occasion spoken out strongly against the use of multiple tubes that require external heater power supply. Even though I did indeed try the FDD20 driver, which needed a 12V power supply, I became uncomfortable with the use of the need for much greater requirements for later power tubes - which I personally feel is fine for those experienced in such things, but possibly not for those who aren't...
  
 I sincerely hope this gives you - and others - a clearer picture, and reassures you that ALL opinions, good or bad, are welcome...so long as they are given _*fairly and in a balanced manner...*_


----------



## richdytch

Well the Mullard 6080s arrived surprisingly quickly from Langrex. I stuck them in this afternoon and had a quick listen - unpleasant harshness. Left them to do their thing and a few hours later they've lost the unpleasantness and will no doubt continue to develop. They're becoming increasingly smooth while retaining an airyness that the stock power tubes didn't have. The sound stage is more vivid and slightly more forward.The biggest improvement over the stock tubes is the bass - the very lowest end seems fortified and the bass in general is incredibly solid. On Bill Evans's Sunday At The Village Vanguard I've heard low rumbles that I've never heard before - possibly floorboard vibrations running up the mic stands. I wouldn't say they're subtle at the moment, but it sounds like they're changing in the right ways. Plus, at least when winter comes I'll be able to great the room off my headphones amp alone


----------



## hypnos1

jerseyd said:


> Agreed. If I have learned anything selling audio gear, it is that listening preferences are highly subjective. That is not to say that learning about other people's preferences is not useful. It is. But if you disagree with someone's preferences, that does not mean that one of you is wrong, and the other right. Let's all learn from each other and appreciate our differences.
> 
> I am anxiously awaiting my first Elise and Esspresivo units and am excited to become a US dealer for them, but I am bowled over by all the opinions regarding tube options. Without combing through 10,600 posts, are there any widely accepted tube pairings considered superior to the stock options?


 
  
 Hi JerseyD.
  
 Welcome to the thread...and Elise territory! And congrats on becoming a US dealer for Feliks-Audio - I am so happy for them, considering the gamble they took in taking on this entirely new amp project. It should be so much easier for those interested in this amp down your way, and I wish you all the very best in your venture.
  
 I do hope that my previous post reassures you (and others!) that we all here respect each individual's preferences...this has in fact always been the case since I first started the Elise thread prior to this one.
  
 As you may well be aware, forums such as this are always going to attract a certain amount of disagreement and controversy. For a long while now I have tried to keep the two threads on track, which I can assure you is an _*extremely*_ difficult thing to maintain! I have done my best in sometimes difficult circumstances, and a good few times I could easily have thrown in the towel and let them (most probably!) die...but that would not have been fair to Lukasz and his team at FA (not forgetting loyal followers - of Elise!). I can only hope that _most_ of the time we are able to stay on track, which is all one can hope for in threadland, lol!
  
 I am sure most people can - and will - understand the realities of this _very_ contentious/subjective hobby of ours, and perhaps also make allowance for the fact that I - and others here - are only human and are trying our best...I sincerely hope for this understanding and acceptance...
  
 Regards,
 CJ
  
 ps. Be assured, plenty of recommendations for tube rolling will be forthcoming...VERY SOON!!


----------



## pctazhp

@JerseyD. Welcome to our little club and congratulations on becoming a US dealer for Feliks Audio. I enjoyed visiting your website. As a dealer for both Beyer and Sennheiser you are carrying two of the most popular brands of headphones on this thread. It's fun to know our beloved Elise will now have a formal presence here in the US.
  
 Pretty mind boggling to try to sum up the gems of over over 10,600 posts. I actually hadn't been paying attention and was surprised when I saw your post and realized how many posts there already are on this relatively young thread. I think most new owners report an initial high degree of satisfaction with the stock tubes, but for many of us that was just the beginning.
  
 A lot of us like the EL3Ns (adapters required) for drivers. They pretty well have taken up permanent residence in my driver slots. But there certainly are other highly regarded drivers. It is much more difficult to even try to identify much of a consensus for powers. I have had very good results with TS5998, quad EL3Ns, 6250, TS7236s, Chatham 6AS7G and single 6BL7s. But this is really just touching the surface.
  
 Then we get into the whole issue of adapters for multiple power tubes and external power. I don't know if Feliks Audio had any idea of the seemingly limitless flexibility of Elise when they were designing it, but it is truly a very unique and special amp. And, as we like to say, "we are the lucky ones."


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @Kon Peki:  I don't know how to post multiple quotes, but if you search @JazzVinyl posts on EL3Ns, you will see he doesn't just not like them, he REALLY dislikes them and has made that point many times. For example see post #1049:
> 
> _"You mean 2031, one FDD20 and one ECC31 as drivers. Still one of the best combos avail...anyone who says different didn't try it (I guess aqsw tried them and had hum problems) everyone else who tried them, had no problem wrapping their heads around the concept.
> 
> ...


 

@Kon Peki it would seem that way to you and others without knowing the history but @pctazhp has provided some insight.
  
 JazzVinyl at the beginning says that EL3N is like a $5000 phono cartridge and if you do a search of past posts, you will find his glowing remarks of EL3N. He has personally thank me and @hypnos1 for bringing EL3N into his life.  So it is quite remarkable, that he changes his tune and said that EL3N sounds 'really REALLY bad' also 'there's no treble!!!'.
  
 Anyway I'm done with tube rolling. Anyone can find their own tubes and Elise WILL sound marvelous with them.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi  I'm also curious, did you run 2xEL3N as drivers and quad 6BL7 without external power supply? 
  
 That's a total of 7.8A well exceeding the recommended range of 6 - 6.5A advised by Lukasz.
  
 Also if you're concerned that I'm upset that someone's findings is different from mine, do not be. I'm not that unreasonable. You do realize that you are using stock HD650 and I'm using Beyer T1 and I wouldn't be surprised if our findings are different. Not to mention the music and source we use. Different ears as well.
  
 I've always encourage everyone to go on a tube rolling journey for themselves. To discover for themselves. The list on post #9291 I've provided is a guideline and is by no means exhaustive. So carry with your experimentation but you need time to burn in tubes and have a proper evaluation before declaring you've reach Summit-Fi. There are a lot more tubes you have not tried. C3G, 6N7G, FDD20, ECC31 drivers and TS 5998, TS 7236, Chatham 6520, GEC 6AS7G as powers.


----------



## UntilThen

jerseyd said:


> Agreed. If I have learned anything selling audio gear, it is that listening preferences are highly subjective. That is not to say that learning about other people's preferences is not useful. It is. But if you disagree with someone's preferences, that does not mean that one of you is wrong, and the other right. Let's all learn from each other and appreciate our differences.
> 
> I am anxiously awaiting my first Elise and Esspresivo units and am excited to become a US dealer for them, but I am bowled over by all the opinions regarding tube options. Without combing through 10,600 posts, are there any widely accepted tube pairings considered superior to the stock options?


 

 Hi JerseyD, congrats on becoming a US dealer for Feliks Audio Elise, Expressivo and their other products. It's about time they have a dealer.
  
 This is a 'hot' thread, so hot it has caused the closure of the 1st thread.
  
 I don't approve of using external power supplies to power tubes in Elise because I cannot see much sense in buying such a well crafted tube amp and then needing to use an external power supply to heat the six or eight tubes. If I ever get to that stage, it's time to move on from Elise and get a custom amp that will do that without external power supply.
  
 Drivers we've found to be very good sounding and having the majority consensus are:-
  
 C3G 
 ECC31
 various European made 6N7G ( Visseaux, Fivre, Mazda)
 FDD20 with external power supply. I don't use this now though for the reason above.
 EL3N
 7N7
 All the above requires adapters which are available from eBay.
  
 Some of the better 6SN7
  
 Power tube:-
 GEC 6AS7G
 Tung Sol 5998
 Tung Sol 7236
 Chatham 6520 / 6AS7G
 GEC 6080
 Mullard 6080
  
 These are the notable ones.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

Little update.
  
 Since I met Miss Elise, my wondering eyes have stopped wondering about other new/used audio gears. Elise is for life. Elise is " cure for my " audiophile disease" . I am sure there are other gears that are better than Elise but somehow " MAGIC sound signature of Elise captivated me enough to stop searching/wondering.
 Anywho..... I just stopped by to say Hello to all Elise lovers.
  
  
 My current set up 5998+EL3N.
  
  
 Those of you that are waiting for Miss Elise, Yeah..... I feel your pain.
  
  
 #17


----------



## UntilThen

@CITIZENLIN  I feel your joy and share it. 
  
 That combo of EL3N and Tung Sol 5998 which I call the benchmark, is indeed a glorious sounding pair.
  
 Cheers to all those who have tried it.


----------



## WB2016

oshipao said:


> I understand ☺️ That's what I do too
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah that looks nice all neutrik and they have the bonus selectable option of decent interior wiring. Good find, use something similar, a 3 to 1 neutrik and silver wiring and silver soder. If the device is sound and you have good connectors this will hardly affect sound quality. Well unless you run some seriooouss calbles, but then you usually do it over a very good preamp. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

2359glenn said:


> Here is one
> http://www.goldpt.com/sw4.html



 


Good choices.
That's even nicer but getting to be quite pricey at almost $400, getting a passive preamp might be another option.
Cheers
WB


----------



## CITIZENLIN

untilthen said:


> @CITIZENLIN  I feel your joy and share it.
> 
> That combo of EL3N and Tung Sol 5998 which I call the benchmark, is indeed a glorious sounding pair.
> 
> Cheers to all those who have tried it.


 
 Hey UT,
  
 Congrats on your new TT.  I am more than happy with 5998/EL3N, FDD20 , 2031 or 6BL7/EL3N. Even though I am curious about multi EL3N or multi 6BL7 but not curious enough to invest in multi adapters and more tubes. YUP... We are the lucky ones.


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hej Oskari,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



Yup Wiener Radiowerke AG, Aktiengeselschaft. (Inc.)

The factory where the subsidiary of Philips made their tubes was previously used by Zeiss and later also for precision machinining in navigation, etc. It was the location of Philips first tape recorder, video recorder, etc. R&D and ultra high quality manufacturing. I would be very surprised if the WIRAG tubes are exactly the same as the orig. Philips. This was one hell of a famous high quality production location.

If you speak German:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss-Werk_Wien

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

2359glenn said:


> Yes just don't use the video inputs



 


Better KISS keep it simple stupid. The less the better. It all depends on the quality cables you use. 

Generally avoid switching devices that look like cheap sh..t, and generally avoid those that give you AV switching in on unit. Usually they are far less than most hifi devices and the shielding is awful.

A friend rewired something similar to this that I am using. Also replaced the plugs to neutrik and furutech that were laying around.


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=HQ+ASWITCH-3+

Funny that I found one thing that is actually cheaper on amazon in Europe than on amazon.com. Its around 15€ here.

A simple straight forward well wired and especially shielded piece is what you want.

Cheers
WB


----------



## pctazhp

citizenlin said:


> Hey UT,
> 
> Congrats on your new TT.  I am more than happy with 5998/EL3N, FDD20 , 2031 or 6BL7/EL3N. Even though I am curious about multi EL3N or multi 6BL7 but not curious enough to invest in multi adapters and more tubes. YUP... We are the lucky ones.


 
 EL3N/5998 is definitely my go-to combination. Right now I'm listening to Katherine Jenkins on Tidal. Absolutely stunning !!!!


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Now all I need to do is find one of these like I actually owned at one time:



 


Oh man, R2R, if you are patient you can still find some good kit used. This was a surprise for me at the High End in Munich that the amount of people buying tapes increased, and the stange thing was that there were females buying reels, almost a third. 90% of High End were males.

The whole discussion about NOS, upsampling, bit-perfect, 96 or 192K, FLAC or WAV, MM or MC, high mass or low mass tts, )" or 12" arms, all that is just an attempt to get somewhere close to the original source tapes, but it's not even close. 

Its really pricey, ca. 300$ for a tape, but having your favorites on tape is priceless. 

Also speaking to other installers tapes are making a huge comeback so it seems if you can get a good deck its a worthwhile investment. Also the in and chic thing to do when all your popular friends have tts.

 I always marvel at how cheap used R2R decks can be and if they are decent they will blow 20K tt out of the water. If they are good....

Cheers
WB


----------



## CITIZENLIN

pctazhp said:


> EL3N/5998 is definitely my go-to combination. Right now I'm listening to Katherine Jenkins on Tidal. Absolutely stunning !!!!




 Thanks pctaphz, Noting but pure nirvana. I am mainly using Elise as Preamp. I haven't touch my T1 more than a month.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> I don't think reel to reel tape is avail to purchase new, anymore, and has not been for more than a decade? Correct me if I am mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



There is a discussion about this:

http://avshowroomsforums.com/showthread.php?670-World-s-First-New-Reel-to-Reel-Machine-in-Years/page1

Some videos of the UHA decks that also won the #1 source in the world by AV showrooms (Don't agree with them there are some recording decks that use 1" tapes that are far superior....)
http://www.avshowrooms.com/UHA_Reel_to_Reel__Deck.html


Some of the tape sellers at the High End said that they sold more than a million € in tapes a year now, which used to be a market for nutters before.

If you think of the amount of money serious hifiers spend on their systems or even rare vinyl pressing, why they did not go for R"R until now is beyond me. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> I have lots of cassettes that still work great. Some recorded in the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah heat and especially moisture. You keep the tapes in an antihumidor. Get a bag of the anti oxidation and moisture pellets that they use for medicine and store all of the tapes in an airtight, preferably metal box.

If they were kept well, nowadays the tapes would be worth some money, but unfortunately few survived, even in studios restoring the original tapes is a PIA and so much was lost.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Nothing to be concerned about or Lukasz would have alerted me to it.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been running these tubes on solid hours since beginning Jan 2016. H1 and many others have just as many hours if not more.



 


Yeah its fine studio recording uses the EL series for decades in recording and they are considered very reliable. WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah for low output tubes (HP) this tube is very close to the 2a3, a legendarily good tube that basically has it all, except a lot of power

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1108/

The above article went into testing tubes and found the EL3N to be the winner of the bunch very close to the 2A3.

Oh it is also dirt cheap when comparing very good tubes and as with the EL series in general tend to take a long time to burn in but then they maintain a very, very long life and consistent profile, why they are used in recording (with tubes). 

Not everyone will like the el3n but relatively objectively (as far as that is possible in hifi) they are good tubes without any major holes in their game. Sure you might not like them or other tubes might be better at some things, but for the price they are worth it IMO. 

Also 4xEL3N make the Elise into a very nice little universal tube preamp SE that pairs well with tubes and SS amps later in the chain.

Again YMMV.
Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> But it is *not* a unanimous opinion.



 



Having all of hifi have a unanimous opinion on anything is probably a whole lot harder than peace in the middle east. 

Cheers WB


----------



## UntilThen

citizenlin said:


> Hey UT,
> 
> Congrats on your new TT.  I am more than happy with 5998/EL3N, FDD20 , 2031 or 6BL7/EL3N. Even though I am curious about multi EL3N or multi 6BL7 but not curious enough to invest in multi adapters and more tubes. YUP... We are the lucky ones.




Thanks CL. TT is fun. Love it.


----------



## WB2016

lord raven said:


> v1 LOL



 


Yeah that is funny looking into T1s V1 because they are becoming really inexpensive but the opinions people have of them, Jesus. 

At the High End in Munich I hear everything from high praises by bian Fang of Hifiman who compared the Orpheus 1 with amp to a T1 with a 5000€ amp and that the Orpheus 1 was better than the Orpheus 2 (Actually he was mainly dissing the Orpheus but also praining the t1), to many others that just considered it OK, to STAX people calling the sound clastrophobic, etc. 
Funny thing was that most of the tape vendors, A&K, and the majority of hp amp manufacturers not pushing their own products had the T1 there. 

So lets hope the T1.1 will go down in value and I can buy it cheaply and we will not pay the Sennheiser premium now on the HD800s.

Cheer
WB


----------



## WB2016

decentlevi said:


> Well Glenn is the owner of what is basically Elise's competitor, which may actually have her outdone in some ways



 


Yeah he builds very nice custom rigs that you can configure anyway you want, but price also seems to be quite a bit more, unless he is now doing bigger runs???

Also Feliks does custom work but Glen could possibly be worth it for you if you cannot live without balanced outputs, or want something particular.

I am just happy with enjoying music and this the Elise does really well, especially for the money.

Cheers
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, we can be T1.1 brothers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please pray for me, I am so close to it. Then I will sell my HD600 which is like never used haha.. 
  
 Quote:


wb2016 said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> > v1 LOL
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > But it is *not* a unanimous opinion.
> ...




That's quote of the day.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> That's quote of the day.


 
 +1, I want peace in the middle east  Tubes can wait!


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> I feel a little sorry for newbies who are waiting for their Elises or contemplating a purchase. They see some pretty intense disagreement on this thread about tubes and headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Nicely summed up.
We are talking about personal preference, but the EL3N the C3G the 5998 all are very good choices for most people. No experience with the 6xpowers, so no comment. The Elise seems to bring out the best of the t1 and pairs nicely with the HD800, so very little not to like, but you can tune it to fit your sound, which is the nice option you get at a great price. 

I found phase has an effect and better hifi circuit and some real hifi power cables lower distortion further. Overall the Elise is quite quiet amp.
It in the Golf GTI in 1976-the mid 80s class of things. It does a lot of everything very well, is practical, economical, adaptable and modifiable and has an almost unhear of performance for the price. Now agreeing on what the best version, mod, retrofit, styling is best is a huge issue, but most agree that was a fine car for its time and the same holds true for the Elise.

Cheer
WB


----------



## WB2016

redbull said:


> With tubes, size matters, the bigger the better
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well if you like big tubes I can now kind of recommend the GU81, we are now testing this in an Icon Audio Monoblock MB81, and they rock. You feel like you will need sunscreen, similar to mercury vapor bulbs or halides, but they are surprisingly good in a rock setup or even with most popular music even vocals. Not a 2A3 or 845, but the power, the power, glorious oh and the size should be to your liking.

If you like tubes go to a show and check them out quite odd guys, but for the size the tubes are dirt cheap, 75€ a piece.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

decentlevi said:


> Well guys, I've tried a Loony amount of Tune combinations (or should I say Tubes, LOL), and I've found what I'm confident will be my best ever for the Elise... but wait, back up a second...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Nice list, are your EL3Ns burned in over 300hs? 

WB


----------



## connieflyer

UT, do you think suzier could make me some adapters so I can run setup like this?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT, do you think suzier could make me some adapters so I can run setup like




Haha for 4th of July.


----------



## connieflyer

Figured I could use it for heating the room this winter.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh no, only 2 of the 6 EL3N's were burned in much but I shall try it more later, probably for mostly non-rhythmic music since it didn't seem to keep up with the dynamics of beat driven music I threw at it.
  
 Also in case anyone overlooked this - what I meant to say is to use good patience / finesse when undertaking the 'journey' of attempting to insert the EL3N's into Ms. XuLing's adapters. It was too much of my manually flattening of the metal contacts that caused 6 lost electrical contacts that had to be compensated for - and of course otherwise too much force could obliterate the tube


----------



## connieflyer

It actually is not that hard. You just have to be firm, and just snap them in.  The second time I changed a tube it came right out and a replacement went in with no problem.


----------



## connieflyer

For UT when he gets back from the beach...


----------



## DecentLevi

Anyway I don't mean to affront on the EL3N tubes - I may be a little more keen than some on noticing things like dynamics / PRaT when I test tubes with electronic music, being that I produce this music from scratch and that my ears are tuned to this kind of music over 26 years of listening - but probably burn in could fix those up!
  
 Also does anyone know if 6BL or BX 7 tubes can be used as singles in the driver's seat?


----------



## connieflyer

No afront taken, with only sixty some years of tuning in to music, I am just starting to really hear it, old guys rule!


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 You could use BL or BX tubes as drivers, but you have to be aware of that they draw 1.5A instead of the 0.6A of 6SN7 tubes. With the Elise you have to add up the current draw of all tubes used - it should not exceed 6.8A.
  
 If it adds up to more than that you need external power. IMHO certain tubes work much better as drivers than power tubes, and vice verse. There are a few exceptions - the EL3N works very well as both a driver tube and power tube.
  
 TWIMC,
  
 From an aesthetic point of view I can understand why some people object to external power adapters - they don't look so nice, and there are wires running around and ugly boxes connected. I can also understand all the people who don't want to bother with the extra pieces needed. However, from the perspective of increasing the performance of the Elise amp for a price much less than say a pair of 5998 tubes I don't see how people can object. And from a perspective of safety, I don't see that these contraptions are a cause of worry.
  
 Yes, I have gotten a couple of shocks of 155V DC by not being careful. It stings, and is unpleasant, but it is not dangerous. It happened from experimenting with the Little Dot amp in the past, and from not being careful and touching the wiring of an uninsulated adapter for the Elise. However, all the adapters for sale now are covered with heavy acrylic plates, and there is no chance of getting shocked by handling them.
  
 A Google search of accidents caused by tube amplifiers only turned up a few very rare instances of fires caused by high powered guitar tube amplifiers, but I could not find a single example of people being injured by tube amplifiers.
  
 Meanwhile I am being more and more enamored by the Elise with 6 x EL + 2 x BL. IMHO this sound is both musical and analytical, which is a  very rare combination. The sound stage has never been clearer - I can concentrate on each musician individually in say an eight piece band. It is as if each instrument is separate and magnified with the greatest detail, whether in the front or in the background of the sound stage. Amazing......
  
 Ready for a silly tube joke?
  
 I am writing this wearing tube socks......


----------



## DecentLevi

Great Mordy thanks. So if I'm using 2x 6SN7 intermixed with 2x 6BL7 in the back + 2x 6BL7 in the front that's 7.2 amps - do you think Ms. Elise can take of this torture of being over by 0.4A for long? Or would you say she'd be more dominant lady in this situation?
  
 PS - I'm ABSOLUTELY lovin' the Elise with 2x 6SN7 as drivers and quad 6BL7/6SN7 intermixed as drivers


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 I don't think that the manufacturer would recommend this, but I think other people on the thread were running such a load without problems. You would have to monitor the amp that it doesn't become too hot - maybe use a fan.
  
 Personally, I would play it safe and use external power. Doing so would allow you to experiment with BL/BX tubes as drivers as well.
  
 In short: I don't know the answer to your question.....
  
 I do agree that most people who have the Elise really like it!


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hej Oskari,
> ...


 
  
 Funny you should mention this WB...I myself was going to say that "Made in Austria" is certainly no bad thing in my book, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...and perhaps might explain why those with this code (as are Peter's, of AcousticDimension) are giving such excellent results for _most_ people?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....mine, plus the GEC CV2523s are truly a marriage made in Heaven. And my new tube DAC just continues to bless this coupling even more by the day....unbelievable!!
  


lord raven said:


>


 
  
 Re. the T1s...prayers certainly for you LR. Plus fingers and toes crossed...GOOD LUCK!


richdytch said:


> Well the Mullard 6080s arrived surprisingly quickly from Langrex. I stuck them in this afternoon and had a quick listen - unpleasant harshness. Left them to do their thing and a few hours later they've lost the unpleasantness and will no doubt continue to develop. They're becoming increasingly smooth while retaining an airyness that the stock power tubes didn't have. The sound stage is more vivid and slightly more forward.The biggest improvement over the stock tubes is the bass - the very lowest end seems fortified and the bass in general is incredibly solid. On Bill Evans's Sunday At The Village Vanguard I've heard low rumbles that I've never heard before - possibly floorboard vibrations running up the mic stands. I wouldn't say they're subtle at the moment, but it sounds like they're changing in the right ways. Plus, at least when winter comes I'll be able to great the room off my headphones amp alone


 
  
 Yo rich, those Mullards are indeed well-respected tubes, and I'm sure will improve a good bit more yet with time...next step GEC/Osram STs?!!! (have a quiet word with a rich aunt, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## richdytch

> Yo rich, those Mullards are indeed well-respected tubes, and I'm sure will improve a good bit more yet with time...next step GEC/Osram STs?!!! (have a quiet word with a rich aunt, mon ami! :wink_face: ).




Hi Hypnos, they're certainly very nice and getting nicer. Most remarkable for their highs and lows - in fact last night I had my first bass-related complaint! Proud moment. It was my wife who complained, so a kind of complaint-lite 

I understand you were instrumental in bringing the Elise into the world Hypnos, so thank you


----------



## WB2016

Best of luck
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

If you guys want to help then head to my sale thread and buy my tubes 





 Best power tubes for the price!!
  
  
 Only two pair left!
  
 Thanks H1, just looking for a valid T1  Not buying from unauthorized sellers, also keeping in mind a good price tag 
  
 Quote:


hypnos1 said:


> Re. the T1s...prayers certainly for you LR. Plus fingers and toes crossed...GOOD LUCK!


 
  
 Thanks 
  


wb2016 said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Funny you should mention this WB...I myself was going to say that "Made in Austria" is certainly no bad thing in my book, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah WIRMAG was a top manufacturing location so most likely the tubes made there are of utmost quality, and consistency, maybe like a C3Gs, but this is pure speculation, there are some wonky EL series tubes, but generally they are very consistent. I would imagine people think the Austrians are like russian or chinese knockoffs, but the Austrians are a bit more like laid back Swiss, without the French element. Not wholey unknown in the Music world for the last 500 years or so

 Well the GEC CV2523 sound tempting, but there are a few more things on the horizon before that, e.g. a really good afordable dac and some highend high ohm speakers.

Cheers
WB


----------



## mordy

Today I did an experiment - compared 6 x EL3N to 6 x EL3N + 2 added 6BL7 as power tubes.
  
 Turned on the Elise with 6 EL tubes (two as drivers, 4 as power tubes) and played a recording. Then, while playing the recording, and without shutting down anything, inserted the two BL tubes.
  
 Before I tried this, my friend the retired audio engineer, had told me that this is not dangerous and will not cause any problems.
  
 Although 6 EL tubes sounded very nice, adding the two 6BL7 tubes to the mix, created an astonishing improvement to the sound. Instantly the presentation became much more vivid, with more clarity, punch, sizzle and detail. In addition, the grain increased significantly.
  
 IT IS AS IF THE ELISE GOT A VITAMIN INJECTION - not a subtle improvement, no, MAJOR!
  
 The added sparkle and vividness is not a product of the higher gain, but comes from the 6BL7 tubes added.
  
 I invite others to try this improvement to the sound of the wonderful Elise - highly recommended.


----------



## oshipao

Hello guys (and gals),

I have followed the latest development of this thread and I must say with all the disputes and misunderstandings that It feels like...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIY_lVrT2pg

Everyone's got a opinion. How good/bad the argument may be. I will hopefully adore the Elise as stock. And I gladly take impressions from anybody who tries something different. Different is good. Cheers!


----------



## Kon Peki

oshipao said:


> ... I will hopefully adore the Elise as stock. And I gladly take impressions from anybody who tries something different. Different is good. Cheers!


 
  
 With all the posts about how some tubes or other are a WOW or MAJOR upgrade, it's easy to come to the conclusion that the stock setup must not be that great.
  
 To me, the stock setup sounds terrific, and the upgrade tubes I've tried so far have made relatively minor differences to the sound.


----------



## DavidA

kon peki said:


> With all the posts about how some tubes or other are a WOW or MAJOR upgrade, it's easy to come to the conclusion that the stock setup must not be that great.
> 
> To me, the stock setup sounds terrific, and the upgrade tubes I've tried so far have made relatively minor differences to the sound.


 
 I agree with this though as well, but it happens in every thread so I just read pass it that it might make a difference, will I be able to tell, maybe, maybe not.
  
 Someone needs to invent a scale (I know this is most likely impossible).  Even something simple as saying "all my friends could easily notice the difference" is still better than "WoW, major upgrade" IMO.  Or what I try to do is let a few friends with different levels of listening backgrounds to see if they can notice the difference, if a novice with very little experience can notice the difference then I would consider it a major difference.  If only a few can hear the difference and it takes serious listening then I would say it makes a difference but would say "its noticeable" or "depends on the person".


----------



## DecentLevi

I for one believe rolling different tubes with the Elise can make a major difference, and  it's more than just "new toy syndrome" or the like, it's real just like how new members are discovering almost daily that this thread is real rather than just hype. If somebody doesn't notice big differences between tube combos, I'd say it more likely broils down to the user's ability to hear these kind of differences, or the tubes that were tried. I just did another A/B between two completely different sets of 6 tubes, and the differences I heard were wide ranging and all encompassing.
  
 Though I do agree that feedback from extra pairs of ears does help make / break our claim especially when the differences seem inconclusive... just be careful with the 'feedback level', LOL


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow Mordy! Please do share a photo of your 'EL6' + dual 6BL7 config!
  
 That really does sound revolutionary to combine the 6BL7 with EL3N, seeking how I was just balking at the vast improvement in detail I heard with the 6BL7 + 6SN7s in comparison


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Just changed my Avatar (the picture that is in the left upper corner of my post)  to my current set-up. Double click on it, and you get a bigger picture. Then double click twice again for more magnification.
  
 DavidA and Kon Peki,
  
 Everybody agrees that the stock configuration tubes of the Elise sounds very good. There is absolutely nothing wrong in staying with the stock tubes.
  
 However, there are tube combinations that sound better and our thread are full of different tube combinations that sound better than the stock tubes. It is a given that everybody has different taste, equipment,  and different ears and different preferences. When i started rolling tubes some six years ago I did not think that it was possible to reach a consensus on what the best sounding tubes would be because of these factors.
  
 To my surprise I found that a certain group of top performing tubes  would appeal to almost anybody. Not that one set of tubes is the best, but there are certain tubes/tube combinations that definitively most people will agree are superior. And in this rare group everybody can find what they like best.
  
 The contributors on this forum have spent considerable time comparing and listening to a multitude of tubes, and some of us have decades of experience listening to music. The recommendations have to be seen in this light.
  
 A number of people were taken aback of what they thought was hyperbole and exaggerations about how good the Elise sounds. I can confidently say that they all changed their minds after receiving their Elise amps.


----------



## JerseyD

pctazhp said:


> @JerseyD. Welcome to our little club and congratulations on becoming a US dealer for Feliks Audio. I enjoyed visiting your website. As a dealer for both Beyer and Sennheiser you are carrying two of the most popular brands of headphones on this thread. It's fun to know our beloved Elise will now have a formal presence here in the US.
> 
> Pretty mind boggling to try to sum up the gems of over over 10,600 posts. I actually hadn't been paying attention and was surprised when I saw your post and realized how many posts there already are on this relatively young thread. I think most new owners report an initial high degree of satisfaction with the stock tubes, but for many of us that was just the beginning.
> 
> ...




Thanks. Looking forward to joining the club. Word from Feliks is that they are ramping up production, and I should be able to get some in August. Seems so far off, but it will fly by. If anyone in NYC has the Elise, please invite me over to take a listen and I'll bring a bunch of choice headphones for a listening party.


----------



## DecentLevi

+1
 Quote:


mordy said:


> ...
> The contributors on this forum have spent considerable time comparing and listening to a multitude of tubes, and some of us have decades of experience listening to music. The recommendations have to be seen in this light.
> 
> A number of people were taken aback of what they thought was hyperbole and exaggerations about how good the Elise sounds. I can confidently say that they all changed their minds after receiving their Elise amps.


 
 Mordy you got the goods, lets see what you can do: I'm betting the 1st & 4th sound great
  
 EL3N  /  2 EL3N + 4 6BL7
 EL3N  /  2 EL3N + 2 6BL7 + 2 6SN7
 6SN7  /  2 EL3N + 4 6BL7
 6SN7  /  2 EL3N + 2 6BL7 + 2 6SN7


----------



## Suuup

To chime in on the whole EL3N debacle: I'm another person who dislikes the EL3N. It has a very special sound. To me, that sound is not appealing (very dark, no sparkle). It might be to others. I sent my pair to a friend so he could give them ago in his Elise. "Lacking in resolution, sound is somewhat smeared. Need to listen more, this may be a bit like the darkvoice.. more forgiving of lesser recordings... hiding the crimes." was his description. I was personally super excited about trying the EL3N when I first got them, after all, everyone on the thread liked them, right? I even put a mattress in the kitchen to sleep on, so I wouldn't miss the postman. I put them in, and found the sound very special. Couldn't decide whether or not I liked it at first. When I switched back to my 6N7G tubes though, it became very apparent. 6N7G was far superior (again, in my opinion) to the EL3N. 
  
What I want to say is, not everyone likes the EL3N, but those who don't like the EL3N generally doesn't stick around in this thread. As such, JV is the only one who tells any newcomers that not everyone likes the EL3N. We do however have some tubes that (to my knowledge anyway) everyone here likes. C3g, ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20. Haven't heard of anyone who doesn't like those (I might not be remembering right those).


----------



## DecentLevi

OK everybody big newsflash: There's a new tube combination that just might surpass all others - and a fix for the EL3N...
  
 Well make no mistake, @mordy really was onto something with his above mentioned combo of 4x EL3N + 2x 6BL7 as powers! Following his lead, I went ahead with my own mini-version of his 8-pack.
  
6SN7 / 6BL7 with EL3N - THE BEST OF 3 WORLDS!
  

  
  
 * the general smeared sound of the EL3N's - SOLVED!
 * The buzz from quad 6BL7's (for me anyway) - SOLVED!
 * The slight lack in body from my former favorite 6SN7 + 2x 6BL7 / 2x 6SN7 intermixed - SOLVED!
  
 Now I'm getting that nice lush / realistic sound of the EL3N's combined with the dynamics and detail of both 6SN7 and 6BL7, and I'd rank this setup is a full two notches higher than the best from my top 10 list from yesterday. For anybody who already has at least 2 EL3N with single adapters + the quad (or even six) 6BL7 adapter, all you have to do is a little switching around, and you get what I believe is yet another game changer with the Elise!
  
 I had added two of my brighter 6SN7 tubes to dial in a bit more detail - of which this type has many variations.
  
_note: I don't recommend 6SN7 + EL3N as powers because in my multiple testing w. various tubes / orders there is always a loud hum_


----------



## HOWIE13

@DecentLevi
  
 That looks straightforward enough and should suit my ears, once I receive my Elise.
 Could you just let me know which tube type is which in that photograph? I recognise the EL3N's but which of the others are the 6SN7's and which the 6BL7's? They both look pretty similar to me. Also, which 6SN7's are you using there?
 Also what are the adapters?
  
 Thanks, as ever.


----------



## richdytch

[quote name="Suuup" url="/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/10665#post_12600601".... more forgiving of lesser recordings... hiding the crimes"
[/quote]


Having not yet received my el3n tubes, I have to say I'm quite excited about this, what with the majority of my system being extremely unforgiving of bad recordings


----------



## richdytch

Hi @DecentLevi @Mordy, may I ask what adapters you use for the power tubes on the 4 x el3n/ 2 x 6bl7 arrangement? I've been having a look around and I'm not sure... Thank you. Rich.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah Howie, this setup is SURE to please your ears, as we both tend to hear things similarly.
  
 Regarding my above pictured setup - I went ahead and compared two more driver tubes with the existing powers
 (2x EL3N + 2x 6BL7 intermixed)
_     the above powers with drivers:_
 * 2x 6BL7: more forward / colored / lush (a bit to colored for my liking), but just as good really
 * 2x EL3N: a bit too lush / smeared for my tastes
  
 So the above photoed combination has everything in spades and is very clean sounding yet smooth / expansive! (just compared it directly to my solid state and it's almost as clean but so much more refine). This, being three notches better than my highest ranking combo two days ago which could only be described as "pornographic"... could only be described as perhaps something alien - like alien perfection!
  
 What you'd need:
 Two of these single EL3N adapters 
 Two of these dual 6AS7 to 6SN7 / 6BL7 adapters
 Zenith 6SN7 (for that added clarity in the highs)
 GE 6SN7 GTA (for those great dynamics / bass definition) 
  
 In the above photo it's 6BL7 in the back (powers) and 6SN7 in the front (drivers). These two types look similar, but BL's are about 25% taller.
  
_note: this setup is essentially tuned for my HD 650, so YMMV depending on the headphones used_
_Also, mix & match your own 6SN7's - none of them really do anything wrong here_


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yeah Howie, this setup is SURE to please your ears, as we both tend to hear things similarly.
> 
> Regarding my above pictured setup - I went ahead and compared two more driver tubes with the existing powers
> (2x EL3N + 2x 6BL7 intermixed)
> ...


 
 Thanks again. I have the 650's too so that's good.
 I better start ordering!
 Cheers.


----------



## DecentLevi

@richdytch for the 6x tubes in the back you would need this 6x adapter. Do note however that this also requires an external power supply... of which has also been a point for "heated discussions" on this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 However I used two dual adapters, linked above.
  
 And as good as my above pictured rig sounds, it can only get even better with more burn-in, and Mordy's 8-tube version is likely to sound even better yet.... then there's a chance that exitic drivers could also up the ante.
  
 Hey @UntilThen I would love to hear your take if you try a similar setup as pictured above. And maybe you can recommend which driver tubes may sound even better than the 6SN7 in that setup? (excluding EL3N or 6BL7 which I've already tested). 
  
 I'm actually trying to get this marvel of an amp show ready for its' first ever appearance at an official Can Jam later this summer.
@JerseyD, will you be making it? It should be one epic meet! There will be a lot of unique rigs from a thriving local bay area Head-Fi community


----------



## Kon Peki

mordy said:


> ... A number of people were taken aback of what they thought was hyperbole and exaggerations about how good the Elise sounds. I can confidently say that they all changed their minds after receiving their Elise amps.


 
  
 I am one of those people, and I have not changed my mind now that I have my Elise.  Yes it sounds great, but I still view many of the comments as over-the-top.


----------



## RedBull

kon peki said:


> I am one of those people, and I have not changed my mind now that I have my Elise.  Yes it sounds great, but I still view many of the comments as over-the-top.


 

 Care to share what amp do you heard better than Elise?


----------



## Oskari

To no-one in particular:

It's not the different opinion, it's how you express it.


To everybody:

Some people are more excitable. Filter as appropriate.

This is the internet, there's bound to be an occasional creeper crawling in. Ignore as best you can.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, found this better deal on T1 from Canada, what do you T1 owners suggest? 835 USD  It is from Amazon, not any dealer (authorized or unauthorized), will I be eligible for 5 years warranty?
 Conniflyer, please look into it  The Gen 2 is almost the same price either or lower. I am almost there, wanna be your T1 brother hehe
Beyerdynamic T1 1125 CDN
Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2 1099 CDN


----------



## JerseyD

lord raven said:


> Guys, found this better deal on T1 from Canada, what do you T1 owners suggest? 835 USD  It is from Amazon, not any dealer (authorized or unauthorized), will I be eligible for 5 years warranty?
> Conniflyer, please look into it  The Gen 2 is almost the same price either or lower. I am almost there, wanna be your T1 brother hehe
> Beyerdynamic T1 1125 CDN
> Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2 1099 CDN


 

 At this point, the original T1 should be selling for much less than the Gen2. There must be a better deal for you out there somewhere if you have your heart set on the Gen1 (although I cannot imagine why you would, except for cost). I have no Gen1 in stock.


----------



## connieflyer

Agreed, original T1 should be considerably less by now.  For those of you that want to try dual adapters,Dual 6SN7 6BL7 TO 6AS7 tube adapter, I have two adapters and two 6bl7 tubes, that I am not going to be using, if you would be intersted drop me a pm, I will make it worth your while.  Shipping to US only. Also have some great 6sn7tubes, Ken Rad vt231 and Sylvania vt231. I am staying with the El3n 6 pack and c3g and 6as7. Save you some money till you find what you want.  Don


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Guys, found this better deal on T1 from Canada, what do you T1 owners suggest? 835 USD  It is from Amazon, not any dealer (authorized or unauthorized), will I be eligible for 5 years warranty?
> Conniflyer, please look into it  The Gen 2 is almost the same price either or lower. I am almost there, wanna be your T1 brother hehe
> Beyerdynamic T1 1125 CDN
> Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2 1099 CDN


 
 I had the chance to demo the T1 gen 1 vs T1 gen 2 on my Elise the other day. Without getting into too much detail, suffice to say I greatly preferred the gen 1 to the gen 2.


----------



## mordy

I would like to make a few observations, all in the sense of clarifying things, and absolutely not talking down on anybody - everybody who voices an honest opinion deserves full respect.
  
 I once went to visit somebody and brought along a nice bottle of wine as a present. The host looked at the bottle and said: Please don't give it to me - it is wasted on me! I took it to mean mean that he did not notice any difference between different wines.
  
 If somebody feels that different tubes that some people regard highly don't make a difference in sound to them, we have to respect their opinion and accept it - nothing wrong with it.
  
 Regarding mixing power tubes: As far as i know, this is something new (I may be wrong on this), but I cannot remember any manufacturer selling tube amps that equips them with non-identical power tubes. So much so, that there are people who would look at you as navel lint for advocating mixing tubes.
  
 This is uncharted territory as far as I know. My thought was that by combining different synergistic tubes you could tune the sound to your liking, much like adding different ingredients to a dish to make it more tasty.
  
 Adding more power tubes seems to be a proven thing, and some amps use an array of them. Having more power tubes adds to the drive and bass with more definition.
  
 For those who do not like the sound of the EL3N, perhaps trying a combination such as mentioned by DecentLevi or myself may prove to be useful.
  
 As time goes by and more people will try different combinations, there will be a consensus on what works best (and what doesn't work). The main thing is that everybody should find the sound they like and be very happy with their listening experience - something that the Elise with it's great flexibility is able to accomplish.


----------



## supersonic395

suuup said:


> I had the chance to demo the T1 gen 1 vs T1 gen 2 on my Elise the other day. Without getting into too much detail, suffice to say I greatly preferred the gen 1 to the gen 2.




Would you be able to go into detail about your comparison especially as you were able to try them with the Elise? 

Many thanks


----------



## JerseyD

suuup said:


> I had the chance to demo the T1 gen 1 vs T1 gen 2 on my Elise the other day. Without getting into too much detail, suffice to say I greatly preferred the gen 1 to the gen 2.


 
 Please elaborate (although it may seem off-topic, I think it may speak to the the voicing and character of the Elise).  The majority of my customers found (although not with Elise, but SS amps) that the Gen 2 had a more refined treble and less overt brightness, and had considerably more bass, which Gen 1 was light in.  What was your take, Suuup?


----------



## Suuup

supersonic395 said:


> Would you be able to go into detail about your comparison especially as you were able to try them with the Elise?
> 
> Many thanks







jerseyd said:


> Please elaborate (although it may seem off-topic, I think it may speak to the the voicing and character of the Elise).  The majority of my customers found (although not with Elise, but SS amps) that the Gen 2 had a more refined treble and less overt brightness, and had considerably more bass, which Gen 1 was light in.  What was your take, Suuup?



Not home right now, so on phone. I found the mids to be much better on the first gen. What you say about more bass is correct, but I find the bass to be much better controlled on the first gen. Also, on my Elise, with 5998 as power tubes and 6N7G as driver tubes, I found the second gen to be way too warm. Way too much mid bass and it masks details.


----------



## richard89

decentlevi said:


> Well guys, I've tried a Loony amount of Tune combinations (or should I say Tubes, LOL), and I've found what I'm confident will be my best ever for the Elise... but wait, back up a second...
> 
> I fixed the sixtet EL3N setup: had to insert 4 wires between the contacts on one, and two on the other dual adapter to fill the electrical contact gaps.
> 
> ...




Hey Levi what's the difference between the 1st combo and the last combo where it says "intermixed"?


----------



## hypnos1

Hi folks.                                                       *AN IMPORTANT REMINDER*                    
                                                     
  
Given the burgeoning interest in the use of multiple tubes, for those who are newer to the thread I feel I must once more remind folks that the use of non-authorised tubes (ie outside those listed by Feliks-Audio) and third party adapters is *AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND INVALIDATES YOUR WARRANTY!*
  
 The whole reasoning behind my original approach to FA was to hopefully persuade them to make an amp that would possibly be a giant killer, at a reasonable price.... and tear me away from the "Frankensteining" I, and others, were subjecting our LittleDots to. And miraculously they came up with Elise - in a wonderfully understated, sophisticated design...and far beyond expectations in the performance arena. I personally find it a great pity that such a clean-looking unit should now be going the same way as the LDs, but that is for each individual to decide upon, of course.
  
 I would suspect however, that the less we steer away from original configuration the safer we will be...the choice is yours...this amp shines beautifully without the need for extravagant alteration IMHO...just my 10 cents' worth....(and I know "there's always better", lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Whatever, I wish you all continued enjoyment with Feliks-Audio's wonderful creation....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## CITIZENLIN

+1 @hypnos1
  
 LD days were exciting but Elise is exceptionally good for the price. Thanks again H1, You are a gentleman and a scholar


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks @JerseyD, @Suuup @connieflyer for your input on T1, I heard it personally and really liked it, at that point I thought it would be my next and last pair of headphones  Thanks @UntilThen for that demo!
  
 Thanks @hypnos1 for the wonderful amplifier, it has everything, looks, guts, and durability. I think, with the right tubes you can make it a 5000$ amplifier. I have tried all the combos but haven't yet stepped into the multi power tubes and mix and match, however, I think spending the most on your headphones will give you the most SQ  This is what I am finally doing, HD600 has played it's part, time to say it good bye and welcome T1


----------



## DecentLevi

richard89 said:


> Hey Levi what's the difference between the 1st combo and the last combo where it says "intermixed"?


 
 The difference is that the 1st combo has 6SN7 on one dual adapter and 6BL7 on the other, whereas the "intermixed" version staggers the two, one of each on each adapter - which made a tremendous improvement in this case.
  
 I would say the only way it could void the warranty to use 3rd party adapters, would be if the manufacturer were to know who had done it in the first place, as it does no harm to the amp. I guess he would have to keep tally of the users on this thread for that


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> The difference is that the 1st combo has 6SN7 on one dual adapter and 6BL7 on the other, whereas the "intermixed" version staggers the two, one of each on each adapter - which made a tremendous improvement in this case.
> 
> I would say the only way it could void the warranty to use 3rd party adapters, would be if the manufacturer were to know who had done it in the first place, as it does no harm to the amp. I guess he would have to keep tally of the users on this thread for that



Using adapters are not entirely risk free. I know of people who've had their adapters go bad and it resulting in a broken amp.


----------



## mordy

OK, hypnos1 and CITIZENLIN,
  
 I promise to be a good boy and use the stock tubes. Tried the OEM Tung Sol Reissue 6SN7GTB supplied with the Elise. Haven't listened to them for a long time, but surprise - it sounds very good. In comparison with the EL3N there is less detail and less slam, but very very nice, musical and engaging. It is just as quiet as the EL3N in the Elise.
  
 In the beginning when some of us had trouble with hum, the OEM configuration was always the most quiet.
  
 Really sounds good - maybe I should use these instead of the EL3N and save the EL3N tubes?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  




  
  
  
 Man, these TS 6SN7GTB tubes never sounded so delicious! Must be the Viennese table!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Using adapters are not entirely risk free. I know of people who've had their adapters go bad and it resulting in a broken amp.




Correct, Suuup...

I had a pair of C3g adapters go south and shorted across the cathode and plates on the right side of the amp. 

After hearing the loudest sound I had ever heard in my life....loud enough to cause me to THROW the SENN HD-580's across the entire room, unlil they met the end of their after market silver cord...(phones survived, BTW, maybe a new ding or two on the finish). 

I realized my Elise had gone silent!

Spent a few days troubleshooting and determined that a resistor on the DC power supply board had fried, which caused no voltage to the plates or cathode - and hence, no sound. Tubes lit up dandy, so 6.3. Volts of AC used as the heater supply was unaffected. 

The Elise gathers a LOT of heat in a couple of areas, enough to burn the color bands off some the resistors. I found myself knowing which part was bad but the resistor could not be measured, and the color bands had long burned off, so while I knew which part needed replacing, I did not know the value of the resistor that the short across cathode and plates had fried.

I contacted Lukansz and explained what had happened and that I had isolated the bad part (confirmed by jumping the resistor with a test lead...I had sound again) and asked Lukasz if FA would be so kind as to inform me of the value of the resistor such that I could effect a repair myself, and not have to send the unit back to Poland.

Lukasz did supply me the resistor specs (thank you, Lukasz and FA) and I ordered the part and make the repair to number 0019 and she runs great, once again.

While I was in troubleshooting mode, I was able to discover the rest of what I didn't know about the Elise topology.

I will say there are a minimum of parts used to complete the circuit (which is good) and she uses a very classic tube amp topology (also a very good thing). What you hear with the Elise is amplification of an analog signal, via the drivers and powers tubes used, in a classic text book topology. 

It's like turning back the hands of time, to an age gone by. 

I can also assure you that running the amp with no tubes in the sockets is perfectly fine, no harm is done, by doing that.

If anyone has an adapter (or tube failure) that causes a short between the driver cathode and plate and expirences the "gone silent" problem, and has the know how and skills needed to effect your own repair....PM me, and I could possibly be of assistance.

Cheers to all the Pure Analog Amplification listeners...

May your cathode voltage never intertwine with your plate voltage.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Man, these TS 6SN7GTB tubes never sounded so delicious! Must be the Viennese table!




Looks good Mordy...

Have you tried 6x 6BL7 as powers and the 6SN7GTB's drivers?

Remains one of my favorite combos in this amp 

Cheers....


----------



## CITIZENLIN

mordy said:


> OK, hypnos1 and CITIZENLIN,
> 
> I promise to be a good boy and use the stock tubes. Tried the OEM Tung Sol Reissue 6SN7GTB supplied with the Elise. Haven't listened to them for a long time, but surprise - it sounds very good. In comparison with the EL3N there is less detail and less slam, but very very nice, musical and engaging. It is just as quiet as the EL3N in the Elise.
> 
> ...


 
 Hello Mody,
 How are you my friend?
 I had to read last 10 pages to understand what you are referring to , Now I got you but you are little off about me. I am not against multi or external psu. I just don't have the fund to buy expensive adapters for my curiosity. I am not part of whatever dramas going on here. I do value everybody finding they are interesting to read. Who knows I If I get the deal on adapters, I might be on board for multi set up.
  
 Happy listening ....


----------



## richard89

I'm kind of worried about using the Dual EL3N and EL3N adapters now... I think someone mentioned about hums during the burn in process of the 6 X EL3N -- wouldn't this mean some kind of synergy mismatch with the amp itself from the get-go?


----------



## pctazhp

richard89 said:


> I'm kind of worried about using the Dual EL3N and EL3N adapters now... I think someone mentioned about hums during the burn in process of the 6 X EL3N -- wouldn't this mean some kind of synergy mismatch with the amp itself from the get-go?


 
 That might have been me. The hum I had was because I didn't have all 4 tubes seated properly in the adapters. Once properly seated, it's dead silent. I don't think you have anything to worry about. If you use a total of 6 EL3Ns (2 drivers and 4 powers) the heater current draw is going to be 5.4 amps, which is under the recommended maximum.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK guys I just can't help it, but I'm about to add to the hyperbole on this thread
 (or maybe the hype is real 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 - and let's just say, this comes from the heart!)
  
 I've GOTTA give it up once again about this tube combo below, mentioned here

  
 After firing this thing up on a new day with a fresh set of ears, it's as if a whole new vocabulary was injected into me...
  
 Visceral, lush, powerful, sweet, SNAPPY, IMPACTFUL, IMMEDIATE,  IMMACULATE, GARGANTUAN ENERGY, AND ABOVE ALL... LIMITLESS!!!
Gargantuan energy: The closest analogy I can find is to imagine the energy / force of an entire continent injected into your ears - and I mean that in a good way! It's the limitless mountain-moving or magical type of energy! And just to think, this is only on a mid-fi DAC with half burned in tubes! Elise owners do yourself a favor and  TRY THIS SETUP - it will not disappoint 
  
_(note the 6SN7 drivers influence the tonality and should be tuned according to the headphones used - feel free to ask me for suggestions matching the tone to your headphone)_
  
PS-  thanks to Mordy for the concept, and your 8-tube version is likely to be even more astonishing


----------



## DecentLevi

Next on a separate note, this is all about @UntilThen. I have always valued him as a valuable contributor and a genuine friend. I for one would like to say that we all really enjoy having you around and you leave some strange void in your absence. I think all the differences of opinion on things like tube / external heat preferences are not to be taken to heart nor to offend anybody. It's nothing more than individual preferences, and variety is one of the driving forces on Head-Fi, or anywhere in many regards. I hope that I speak for everybody when I say, we'd enjoy to have you back at least occasionally and that we harbor NOTHING against you!!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

decentlevi said:


> OK guys I just can't help it, but I'm about to add to the hyperbole on this thread
> (or maybe the hype is real  :eek:  - and let's just say, this comes from the heart!)
> 
> I've GOTTA give it up once again about this tube combo below, mentioned here
> ...




The English word you need is "sublime," which is an aesthetic term that in most interpretations refers to the clash between the inexpressibly infinite and a finite cognition unable to adequately conceptualize it. The darkness of the cold depths of the ocean on a stormy night. Jupiter. According to Kant, your inexpressible awe is less focused on the sublimity of the object itself, in this case the sonic experience of the tubes, than the incapacity of your mind to come to terms with that object.

Glad you're lovin the Elise. My ZDS arrives tomorrow and I am anticipating a similar sublimity as you attempted to voice here!


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks, Ms. Junyuan
 Oh yeah I had "sublime" in mind but to me this demanded even more impactful words for well, it's solid impact LOL.
 Glad you have a ZD II on the way and for that you'll have no need for the Elise - not until maybe the balanced version comes out.
  
 And yes, the above post is to say that this is my #1 tube setup thus far!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

decentlevi said:


> Thanks, Ms. Junyuan
> Oh yeah I had "sublime" in mind but to me this demanded even more impactful words for well, it's solid impact LOL.
> Glad you have a ZD II on the way and for that you'll have no need for the Elise - not until maybe the balanced version comes out.
> 
> And yes, the above post is to say that this is my #1 tube setup thus far!




I wouldn't assume it's better than the Elise, maybe just different flavor.


----------



## Lord Raven

Your post after H1 's disclaimer is gold 



mordy said:


> OK, hypnos1 and CITIZENLIN,
> 
> I promise to be a good boy and use the stock tubes. Tried the OEM Tung Sol Reissue 6SN7GTB supplied with the Elise. Haven't listened to them for a long time, but surprise - it sounds very good. In comparison with the EL3N there is less detail and less slam, but very very nice, musical and engaging. It is just as quiet as the EL3N in the Elise.
> 
> ...


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi folks.                                                       *AN IMPORTANT REMINDER*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well I like to be able to do both and why I used the analogy of Elise and the first real hot hatch the Golf GTI, it was reasonable you could put ferocious aftermarket products in it, but you could also quickly convert it back when you had to drive your grandma. It was a great bang for the buck and let you do crazy tuning while maintaining something of respectability and more fun than should have been legal, especially for the money. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> I would like to make a few observations, all in the sense of clarifying things, and absolutely not talking down on anybody - everybody who voices an honest opinion deserves full respect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah, most of the custom jobs, especially those that want to immitate the sound of a specific system do do this. You build a custom amp and taylor the sound, after a customer has built "his sound" but has to keep it quiet through hps, not as common in commercial applications for headphone amps but for speaker amps this is also done. The issue I see with the mix and match is that we really do not do any tube matching and you could get some more imballanced systems, but also statistically with more tubes the imballances should counter themselves out. 
The more variables you add the higher the chance of someone experiencing problems and that is not really a feasible situation for a commercial product. 

Also a lot of the best custom amp manufacturers, e.g. Paravicini, also have the approach of true hifi, where they use tubes for faster response but not to add any coloration, which they see as an aboration. These are true neutrality builders coming from recording, but there are also many sound mixers, especially blending 845 and 300B is very popular . 

What we as rollers can do is done by the developers but usually coloration or rollability is not really their focus but creating an idiot proof consistent "reference" system.
Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

richard89 said:


> I'm kind of worried about using the Dual EL3N and EL3N adapters now... I think someone mentioned about hums during the burn in process of the 6 X EL3N -- wouldn't this mean some kind of synergy mismatch with the amp itself from the get-go?



 


Na, the EL3N just tend to hum a bit until they burn in, but getting the tubes properly into their sockets the first time is the only thing you need to worry imo A little tricky, search the pages for input. 

There is no need to frankenstein anything but the EL3N go especialy well with brigher cables/HPs. I use some pure silver RCAs and silver plated OCC 6N copper powercables that I am currently "borrowing", also pure silver hifi circuit breaker. The silver cables cost multiple times more than the Elise (they are a client's backup) but the detail and slight brightness really go extremely well with the EL3Ns, especially as a preamp to very analytical powered studiomonitors. 

The biggest bonus of the EL3N for me is that I often have the Elise running 8-12 hrs a day so tube life is important for me and in a few years that will pay for itself.

Cheers
WB


----------



## RedBull

Hope you have a chance to chime one or two, comparing ZDSE and this amp Ms. Liu


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Glad to hear that everything is back to normal and that your amp is working properly!
  
 Seems to me that at this point we are the only ones using the 6 x bridge adapter in the Elise. I am getting superb sound and am still exploring different options - the possibilities are many.
  
 Just tried the original TS 6SN7GTB re-issues and they sound very good, especially the treble. Now I switched to one of your favorite drivers: The Mazda/Visseux 6N7G. The sound with these tubes is very nice as well. In comparison it is more laid back with better bass but surprisingly the treble is better with 6SN7GTA. The famous wall of sound is not an issue, it is there anyhow from the power tubes. Almost completely quiet, even more than the 6SN7GTA.
  




  
 Very pleasant, laid back sound with this combination. But I prefer a more vivid in your face presentation.


----------



## mordy

The above post was from yesterday, or was it this morning early am? Anyhow, I forgot to click the submit button, so posted it now.
  
 Before trying JV's suggestion of 6 BL + SN, I just put in two 6BX7 tubes as drivers - two GE tubes. These are 1.5A tubes and are first cousins to the 6BL7 - only the amplification factor is 10 instead of 15.
  
 Let me digress first. Ever wondered what those sand blasted dots mean on the GE tubes? They are date codes, but until recently nobody seemed to know what they mean. Now somebody deciphered most of the information. If you want to date your GE tubes, Gibosi presented the information on the 6BL7 thread. I still did not get the hang of it, so submitted some photos, and Gibosi was kind enough to clarify the mysterious codes. If you want to hone your mathematical and analytical skills, not to mention sharpening your eye sight, take a look at this:
  


mordy said:


> Hi Gibosi,
> 
> Here I took some pictures of several BX and one BL tube to try to understand how to interpret the dots
> 
> ...


 

 Here is the link to the paper explaining the GE dating system:
  
  
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=230932
  

SA  
 I wrote an article published in Tube Collector (Vol 12, Number 6 - December, 2010) that describes the date codes. Here is an abbreviated explanation. I tried to copy some tables into this post, but the data does not line up and is more confusing.

 The following applies to tubes sold commercially. Printed date marking for the military was different as to meet their requirements, but the dots represent the same thing for both military and commercial tubes.

 There are two sorts of date codes on GE tubes. One is the printed date code and one is the sand-blasted dot code.

 As far as the printed date code goes, from 1948 to 1955 it has a Y-MM pattern. From 1956 to 1964 it was a YY-MM pattern. "Y" represents the last digit of the year. "YY" represents the last two digits of the year. For "MM", while those digits after the year look like weeks, they are actually quantized months. That is, there are only 12 different ones. The month codes are: 04, 09, 13, 17, 22, 26, 30, 35, 39, 43, 48, and 52. These represent January through December, respectively. These codes were strictly for the purpose of honoring the warranty and could have been printed on the tube several years after the tube was manufactured.

 Examples:
 8-43 = October 1948
 59-09 = February 1959

 Starting in mid 1964, General Electric switched from a “year-month” to a two-letter “month/year” code for warranty fulfillment. These two-letter codes were used until the end of manufacture in about 1985. The latest code I've ever seen is "KG".
   Attachment:




 lettercodes.png [ 45.97 KiB | Viewed 1813 times ]




 GE Sandblasted Date Codes on Glass Tubes

 The sand-blasted dot codes on glass tubes represent the actual date of manufacture. These began to be used in 1952. Between 1962 and 1964 the dots sometimes "don't make sense" otherwise, the series is well behaved.
   Attachment:




 dots1.png [ 9.16 KiB | Viewed 1813 times ]


 The base matrix of three rows and five columns encompasses the “W’s”, three upper “C’s” and the “Y’s”. The abbreviation “U.S.A.” made its appearance in 1960. Small and large dots occasionally appear in the upper row demarked here by the letter “X”. It is not yet understood what these extra dots represent, and the dots in the “X” row do not always line up with the lower columns. The other letters are defined as follows:

 C – This center “key” column of dots is always present. The lowest “C” was added in 1972 and used through 1981. After 1981, military dates or consumer warranty dates are needed to differentiate these from 1960s counterparts.

 W – These dots represent the week of the year from one to fifty three. Binary notation is used, and one must add the dots to get the week. The pattern for counting is below.
   Attachment:




 dots2.png [ 6.65 KiB | Viewed 1813 times ]



 Y – These dots represent the years. Add the numbers to get the last digit of the year. ”O” is odd decade (1950s and 1970s), “E” is even decade (1960s and 1980s).
   Attachment:




 dots3.png [ 6.55 KiB | Viewed 1813 times ]


 
 Basically, you have to fit the dots into the matrix and use the two left columns to determine the week of manufacture. The middle column indicates the decade but you can ignore it. The two right columns indicate the year.
  
 I'll think that this post is long enough, so I will post separately about the BX drivers in the Elise.


----------



## mordy

Sorry for the digression, but I thought you all really wanted to find out how to date your GE tubes lol.
  
 Anyhow, first I want to thank Citizenlin for your encouraging words. The 6 x octal adapter is custom made for the Elise and expensive, but it may allow you to use inexpensive tubes like the 6BL7, 6BX7 and 6N7 among others to get great sound. It can be used instead of dual adapters as well, leaving slots empty.
  
 This morning I decided to try two 6BX7 tubes as drivers. Chose two GE tubes - one of them just arrived. TERRIBLE HUM - OH NO! Maybe the BX isn't compatible with the Viennese table?
  
 Just to make sure, put in a pair of Sylvania 6BX7 that I know work well. The hum is gone - must be something wrong with one of the GE tubes - have to figure it out later. Tested the noise as well - basically Humpfrey.
  
 This sounds excellent - better than the TS 6SN7 reissue, more punch in the bass. The EL3N is still better with this configuration with better instrument separation and more micro detail, but this is a worthy substitute.
  
 The obligatory picture:
  




  
 Yes DL, adding more power tubes will most likely, as they say, "enhance your listening experience"  IMHO. As long as the driver tubes are compatible, it seems that these power tubes will enhance them and bring out their best.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Let me digress first. Ever wondered what those sand blasted dots mean on the GE tubes? They are date codes, but until recently nobody seemed to know what they mean. …
> 
> … The middle column indicates the decade but you can ignore it. The two right columns indicate the year.




Personally, I welcome such digressions.  Just wanted to add this: the fourth, lowest dot in the center column differentiates 72—81 dates (fourth dot present) from 52—61 dates (fourth dot not present).


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi guys, how much would you pay for a T1 demo piece that has never been powered up because everyone who wanted it ran away from the shop because of listening to its price lol


----------



## DavidA

lord raven said:


> Hi guys, how much would you pay for a T1 demo piece that has never been powered up because everyone who wanted it ran away from the shop because of listening to its price lol


 
 Considering you can get new for $780, for me $700 tops, but this is for US only, don't know what are the going prices where you can source from


----------



## Lord Raven

He told me 775$. It's an open box, but in any case, Beyerdynamic doesn't put any seal on the box, so I cannot tell, I did not find any torn seal. Can any one confirm this about a brand new T1, please? I found it in a local store luckily and I can avoid shipping cost if they offer me a good price. The rep will talk to his boss and let me know  Fingers crossed! 



davida said:


> Considering you can get new for $780, for me $700 tops, but this is for US only, don't know what are the going prices where you can source from


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> richard89 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm kind of worried about using the Dual EL3N and EL3N adapters now... I think someone mentioned about hums during the burn in process of the 6 X EL3N -- wouldn't this mean some kind of synergy mismatch with the amp itself from the get-go?
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB...I can certainly vouch for the difference pure silver (in my interconnects and plated parts of my power cables ) - makes to the EL3N's  clarity, details and 'sparkle'...wonderful!...no hint here whatsoever of 'smearing', lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...especially from the T1s...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lord raven said:


> He told me 775$. It's an open box, but in any case, Beyerdynamic doesn't put any seal on the box, so I cannot tell, I did not find any torn seal. Can any one confirm this about a brand new T1, please? I found it in a local store luckily and I can avoid shipping cost if they offer me a good price. The rep will talk to his boss and let me know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry LR...can't remember about seals with mine. But I wish you the best of luck with the transaction...CHEERS!....


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Hi guys, how much would you pay for a T1 demo piece that has never been powered up because everyone who wanted it ran away from the shop because of listening to its price lol


 

 a mint condition (open box or used) t1, g1 would warrant no  more than 700-750 CDN$, imo.  $775usd might be high but then you have to factor in other issues such as shipping, duties, insurance if it were not obtained locally/directly.
  
 g'luck & happy listening.


----------



## DavidA

lord raven said:


> He told me 775$. It's an open box, but in any case, Beyerdynamic doesn't put any seal on the box, so I cannot tell, I did not find any torn seal. Can any one confirm this about a brand new T1, please? I found it in a local store luckily and I can avoid shipping cost if they offer me a good price. The rep will talk to his boss and let me know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If its an open box and never been used with the full warranty from the dealer then $775 is not a bad price to me.  good luck


----------



## WB2016

hypnos1 said:


> Hi WB...I can certainly vouch for the difference pure silver (in my interconnects and plated parts of my power cables ) - makes to the EL3N's  clarity, details and 'sparkle'...wonderful!...no hint here whatsoever of 'smearing', lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Hi H1,

But that is an interesting observation on the EL3Ns I have to say they respond a lot to power quality, cabling and source. The one thing you notice is when you switch the phasing (put the plug in the wrong way, so that the Elise is out of phase) has much more effect on the EL3N and to some extent also C3G. It seems as if they are more sensitive to signal and electrical noise. The standard setup doesn't care that much.

Its funny that you can hear the difference of the quality of the cables feeding the EL3N more so than in other tubes. Its as if the EL3Ns can translate the junk in the wire, say oxidation and fluctuations in current. They sound very good even with €6 cables but the EL3Ns respond much more to what they are fed than others. H1 have you tried some lower quality connectors and do you also see the EL3Ns more responding to cables and source? Silver with EL3Ns is definitely synergistic IMO. The EL3Ns pair well with analytic and slightly bright equipment.

I for one cannot complain about muddiness or anything of that sort with the EL3Ns but mine are now burnt in with about 280hrs and I have the luxury of good cabling and developed a bit of an ear for tuning/balancing the systems with cables and the likes. I would be curious how many of those that own an Elise have actually checked the phasing of all the components in their audio chain??? I am often surprised at people spending huge amounts on upgrades and that miss the basics such as current or a with speakers room treatment, positioning, etc. I really wonder how many coming from midfi going to the Elise never check such things but just give a 50/50 chance of the components being in phase. Really just curious, because it is such a cheap fix but can avoid so many tonal problems in systems.

Anyway will be trying to order some cables power, rca from China from some reputable seller (hopefully) and see if this can be accomplished in a reasonable manner. I will keep you posted. 

Cheers WB


----------



## hypnos1

wb2016 said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi WB...I can certainly vouch for the difference pure silver (in my interconnects and plated parts of my power cables ) - makes to the EL3N's  clarity, details and 'sparkle'...wonderful!...no hint here whatsoever of 'smearing', lol!
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB...you could well be right about the 'sensitivity' of the EL3N, as with the C3g (in which grid stopper resistors are often used to help counter such possible interference).
  
 Your comments re. phase are surely not off-target...I once checked the line out from a very expensive Arcam AVR I had, and blow me if it wasn't reversed!!
  
 I shall try your suggestion of replacing the silver interconnects with some 'lesser' ones and see what happens. At some time I shall also try and see whether the new tube DAC gives the same level of improvement to other drivers...just need a few more hours in the day at the moment, lol!
  
 Cheers
 CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> But that is an interesting observation on the EL3Ns I have to say they respond a lot to power quality, cabling and source. The one thing you notice is when you switch the phasing (put the plug in the wrong way, so that the Elise is out of phase) has much more effect on the EL3N and to some extent also C3G. It seems as if they are more sensitive to signal and electrical noise. The standard setup doesn't care that much.




The 120 volt (USA) models, you cannot insert the 3-pronged mains plug in, the "wrong way". It's keyed via 3 prongs, there is no reversing the plug (unless you intentionally modify it, to do so).

When you say: "so that the Elise of out of phase" - do you mean with other AC components that you have plugged in "the other way around"?


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 Almost all electric cables I use are of the US standard three prong grounded type. Since one blade is wider than the other (polarized plug) you can only insert it one way. With such a system, could there still be a problem with phasing?


----------



## supersonic395

Will be receiving the Elise tomorrow but will wait until the weekend to give it a proper listen!!


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Will be receiving the Elise tomorrow but will wait until the weekend to give it a proper listen!!


 

 Question is can Led Zeppelin wait till the weekend?


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Question is can Led Zeppelin wait till the weekend?




Eeeek I don't think I'll be able to..


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Eeeek I don't think I'll be able to..


 

 Remember the stock tubes are numbered on the boxes so keep them numbered. Enjoy. I've no doubt you'll be pleased with your Sony DAP and T1 G2 with Elise.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Remember the stock tubes are numbered on the boxes so keep them numbered. Enjoy. I've no doubt you'll be pleased with your Sony DAP and T1 G2 with Elise.




My only dealings with tube amps has been with guitars. 

However, what's the protocol for turning it on before or after plugging in the headphones? Same question re turning it off please


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Question is can Led Zeppelin wait till the weekend?




In short: no. 


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/hAzdgU_kpGo[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> My only dealings with tube amps has been with guitars.
> 
> However, what's the protocol for turning it on before or after plugging in the headphones? Same question re turning it off please


 

 When trying new tubes, it's best to power on Elise first before plugging in your precious headphone. There has been occasions where dodgy tubes damage headphones. The stock tubes are tested by Feliks Audio so should be good.
  
 Powering off shouldn't matter.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> When trying new tubes, it's best to power on Elise first before plugging in your precious headphone. There has been occasions where dodgy tubes damage headphones. The stock tubes are tested by Feliks Audio so should be good.
> 
> Powering off shouldn't matter.




Cheers dude...will report back my initial impressions and then more indepth impressions over the bank holiday weekend


----------



## UntilThen

@connieflyer send me a family size pizza. Let's see what flavor.


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Ah that makes things quite a bit easierr as compared to Schukos. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## connieflyer

Looks like it made it in good shape.  Always concerned about that.  Enjoy the "pizza"!


----------



## UntilThen

Courtesy of CF. My heartfelt thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The 1st of many LPs in that pizza box. This is Def Leppard - 45rpm in 12" format. Great SQ quality. LP still brand new - amazing. It's been 30 years?
  
@connieflyer  thank you - love love muah muah ))))


----------



## connieflyer

Glad you are liking it, had to order special from factory, always thought it was kind of neat. Occasionally a friend would see it and mention to me it was going to fast!


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Your comments re. phase are surely not off-target...I once checked the line out from a very expensive Arcam AVR I had, and blow me if it wasn't reversed!!
> 
> Cheers
> CJ


 
 Many decades ago I had a set of Roger West's Soundlab A1/B1 electrostats on loan for over a year. They were Soundlab's top of the line speaker system at the time. They consisted of two huge full range electrostat speakers and two bass panel electrostats of equal size, powered by 4 of Jeff Rowland's then most powerful monoblocks (don't remember model number or power). Jeff Rowland himself had heard the system, as well as several other very experienced audio professionals. 
  
 They never seemed quite right to me but I never could put my finger on the problem, and no one else seemed to notice it. When the speakers finally went back to Soundlab in Utah, Roger reported that one of the bass panels had left the factory wired out of phase ((((


----------



## UntilThen

Led Zeppelin for @supersonic395 in LP.  @ 1969 Atlantic Recording Corporation. 
  
 CF you really preserve these LPs. Immaculate condition. Near mint !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks, let me know if there are any that don't measure up


----------



## connieflyer

What power tubes are you using with the El3n's in the photo?


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> I wouldn't assume it's better than the Elise, maybe just different flavor.


 

 Congrats LJ. That's a lovely tube amp - ZDS. 
  
 While you enjoy your new amp today I'll be rolling LPs.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> What power tubes are you using with the El3n's in the photo?


 

 Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## connieflyer

How do those rank among-st the other powers?


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> Tung Sol 5998.


 
 Might be a dumb question but are those adapters under the TS-5998 to fit the Elise or just socket savers?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> How do those rank among-st the other powers?


 
 One of the best CF. 5998 is much loved by the tube amp community. Dynamic and lively tone. It sizzles. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


davida said:


> Might be a dumb question but are those adapters under the TS-5998 to fit the Elise or just socket savers?


 
 They are socket savers. I use them to raise the height of the 5998 so that they are not shorter than the EL3N..


----------



## nykobing

Listening to New Order's Technique with el3n and 5998 and it sounds so slow compared to a 6sn7 and 5998. The el3n doesn't seem so good with this type of music with a pair of 650.


----------



## connieflyer

Might be the 650's, I had two pair of them, extreme comfort, but a little slow on some music and not as open as others


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> Listening to New Order's Technique with el3n and 5998 and it sounds so slow compared to a 6sn7 and 5998. The el3n doesn't seem so good with this type of music with a pair of 650.


 

 Yes that's highly likely with the HD650. With a T1 or brighter sounding headphone it will be different. You can get very good results using C3G and 5998 with stock HD650.
  
 I do like running Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top and 5998 with stock HD650.


----------



## nykobing

Just put in some c3g and it is a lot faster, soundstage is a lot smaller though, but they are new.


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> Just put in some c3g and it is a lot faster, soundstage is a lot smaller though, but they are new.


 

 Yup let them burn in. C3G and 5998 is a dynamite pairing. 
  
 The other combo that sounds amazing is Visseaux 6N7G or Mazda 6N7G or Fivre 6N7G with 5998 and stock HD650.
  
@Audict123 loves that.


----------



## UntilThen

The Missing Linc by Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues. Recorded Live from the Studio directly to the master disc. Volume II.
 This is an exceptional LP. Sound quality is incredible. Audiophile quality. Sheffield recording. Piano chords are crystal clear.
  
 CF thanks so much. I'm incredibly happy !!!
  
 Have to stop now for lunch.


----------



## connieflyer

Have a "bite" on me. Glad you are liking it. Wait till you hear King Porter Stomp on the other L.M. disk 3. Incredible sounds.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT and CF,
  
 Just played Blackbird and King porter Stomp by Lincoln Mayorga via YouTube - the sound quality is extraordinary.
  

  

  
 The King Porter versions I have been listening to are from 1920's. Here is a 1926 version played by the composer:

  
 And another version from 1924 - a duet with cornet by the great Joe Oliver:
  

  
 Now what do these two recordings of King Porter Stomp (Mayorga and Morton/Oliver) have in common?
  
 They are both direct-to-disc recordings.....
  
  
 Did you know which recordings were the first digital recordings?
  
 This:
  

  
 Turn of the century player pianos used a digital system to play.


----------



## connieflyer

Great sounding, loved those disks, really pulled the music together, and there was no mixing, one take each. Once that Scully lathe was working you had better be too!


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Strangely enough, the paper piano rolls could be edited and often were, but all the early 78's were recorded direct to disc. If there was an error they tried another take, and some of the early jazz recordings are available in several different takes.
  
 Sometimes people edited them when they made re-issues on LP's or CD's, and I have a few recordings were different takes were combined into one recording.
  
 The recordings made up to around 1926 were acoustic, and afterwards electric with microphones. Some sound engineers were very good and managed to get quite good sound. A British musician and sound engineer, John R.T.Davis found some record stampers from the 20's and used modern technology to press vinyl copies with quite good results.
  
 Here is a test pressing of a 1928 recording - pretty amazing sound for the time period:


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy I've been introduced to these lovely music by CF. Have to tear myself away for lunch.

I will be back !!!! So says Arnie.


----------



## supersonic395

@UntilThen 

Have you got/heard any of the Alan Parson's Project music on vinyl? The mastering/mix sounds excellent on CD


----------



## UntilThen

I don't have APP on vinyl but I see a lot of albums on Tidal. Will try it later. Meanwhile Lincoln Mayorga is incredible.There's 'bite' in the music.


----------



## hypnos1

supersonic395 said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> Have you got/heard any of the Alan Parson's Project music on vinyl? The mastering/mix sounds excellent on CD


 
  
 Hi s395.
  
 Yeah, "Turn of a Friendly Card" is one of my all time favourites...the quality of recording on the CD is truly wonderful, and is great for seeing just how the system is performing...(can't begin to imagine how a hi-res remaster would sound!).
  
 Will have to try and dig out my LP and see what's what, lol!


----------



## UntilThen

Lincoln Mayorga & Distinguished Colleagues - Volume III
  
 This direct to disc recording open up my eyes  
  
 Every track sounds wonderful. Crystal clear and sparkling. Notable songs:-
  
 My Love (Paul McCartney)
 America from West Side Story (Leonard Bernstein - Stephen Sondheim)
 Oh Lord I'm on my Way - Porgy and Bess
 You're the Sunshine of My Life (Stevie Wonder)
 Elise Theme - this caught my attention and it did sound good.
 'From Menaggio to Bellagio' - drums hit hard and real.
 Lastly, 'King Porter Stomp' had me stomping all over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What is bad about this recording is that it will make others sound not as good. I should have left the Lincoln LP till last because the next LP is my favorite 'Dark Side of the Moon' by Pink Floyd.


----------



## UntilThen

Funny you guys should mention Alan Parson because I'm listening to 'Dark Side of the Moon' now and the recording engineer is none other than Alan Parson himself, who is also the engineer for 'Abbey Road' and 'Let It Be' by the Beatles.
  
 Really love this album. An all time favorite.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Lincoln Mayorga & Distinguished Colleagues - Volume III
> 
> This direct to disc recording open up my eyes
> 
> ...




Bet it does sound great.

You should try this one, by Grover Washington Jr:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grover-Washington-Jr-Winelight-Nautilus-Superdisc-LP-Elektra-NR-39-/291764728403

This "Nautilus Superdisc LP" is half speed mastered, and It blows all digital and "lesser LP" copies out of the water, for sound quality.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi s395.
> 
> Yeah, "Turn of a Friendly Card" is one of my all time favourites...the quality of recording on the CD is truly wonderful, and is great for seeing just how the system is performing...(can't begin to imagine how a hi-res remaster would sound!).
> 
> Will have to try and dig out my LP and see what's what, lol!




Alan Parsons:

Tales of Mystery and Imagination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Mystery_and_Imagination_%28Alan_Parsons_Project_album%29

and 
Stereotomy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotomy

and of course:
I, Robot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Robot_%28album%29

Were our faves, back in the day.

"Tales Of Mystery" - probably has the best sound quality, on Vinyl. But all were well done.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Alan Parsons:
> 
> Tales of Mystery and Imagination
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Mystery_and_Imagination_%28Alan_Parsons_Project_album%29
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV...must revisit some of those I missed first time round, lol!


----------



## supersonic395

I-Robot is a favourite for sure


----------



## inthere

Still wanting a balanced version of this amp.........


----------



## connieflyer

Probably not going to happen with this amp.Would need redesign and lots of new parts for very little gain. If they did a pure balanced desgn, would be a lot more expensive. Doubt if volume of units sold would make it profitable.


----------



## UntilThen

inthere said:


> Still wanting a balanced version of this amp.........


 

 G'day inthere. You've both the Expressivo and Elise. As a professional DJ with your plethora of headphones, what do you think about them.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Bet it does sound great.
> 
> You should try this one, by Grover Washington Jr:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. I'm trying to win the bid for less than $10.


----------



## inthere

untilthen said:


> G'day inthere. You've both the Expressivo and Elise. As a professional DJ with your plethora of headphones, what do you think about them.


 
  
  I use both as preamps:


----------



## UntilThen

inthere said:


> I use both as preamps:


 
  
 Interesting, At work? I thought you use it at home for music listening.


----------



## inthere

untilthen said:


> Interesting, At work? I thought you use it at home for music listening.


 
  
  Not powerful enough for me, they don't drive most of my headphones.......I keep coming back to this thread to find the exact tubes and adapters that will give me more power, but honestly there's just too much info and I don't know what to get. 
  
 The stock tubes are really great for clubs though, I know it's hard to tell from my crappy cellphone audio but I get asked sound system questions all the time. When I play in different countries I just put the Espressivo in a backpack but when I play local I bring the Elise.


----------



## supersonic395

inthere said:


> Not powerful enough for me, they don't drive most of my headphones.......I keep coming back to this thread to find the exact tubes and adapters that will give me more power, but honestly there's just too much info and I don't know what to get.
> 
> The stock tubes are really great for clubs though, I know it's hard to tell from my crappy cellphone audio but I get asked sound system questions all the time. When I play in different countries I just put the Espressivo in a backpack but when I play local I bring the Elise.




The Elise should be able to easily drive 600 ohm dynamic headphones no? Which headphones do you have?


----------



## UntilThen

inthere said:


> Not powerful enough for me, they don't drive most of my headphones.......I keep coming back to this thread to find the exact tubes and adapters that will give me more power, but honestly there's just too much info and I don't know what to get.
> 
> The stock tubes are really great for clubs though, I know it's hard to tell from my crappy cellphone audio but I get asked sound system questions all the time. When I play in different countries I just put the Espressivo in a backpack but when I play local I bring the Elise.


 

 Yeah I can understand as most of your headphones are planar magnetics and low impedance, low sensitivity. Should drive your HD650 very well though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Different tubes are not going to give you a lot more power. For higher gain, your best bet is Tung Sol 5998 as power tubes. Visseaux, Fivre, Mazda 6N7G, EL3N as drivers will have more gain than 6SN7.


----------



## inthere

untilthen said:


> Yeah I can understand as most of your headphones are planar magnetics and low impedance, low sensitivity. Should drive your HD650 very well though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bang! Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

Most of us should know the Who. Don't ask me who is WHO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quadrophenia is their 2nd rock opera after Tommy. Album use a lot of natural sound like the crashing of waves on rocks and whistle of a diesel train. You have a very talented group of musicians here. Roger Daltrey, John Enwhistle, Keith Moon and Pete Townsend. I love 70s rock.


----------



## supersonic395

Had the Elise on now for almost 3 hours straight and Pink Floyd Pigs (three different ones) sounds soooooo good!! 

The T1.2 has really nice bass...lawd I'll need to put more hours into this and will post back at the weekend


----------



## UntilThen

Success SS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 You should have played 'Wish you were here' like I'm doing now on LP.


----------



## UntilThen

WISH YOU WERE HERE !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  cheers from Pink Floyd.
  
 Tubes are Mazda 6N7G and TS 5998. A very nice sounding combo which many here love. Visseaux and Mazda 6N7G are identical.
  
 Listening with HE560 now .... love this planar magnetic. With Elise it does everything right. Treble, mid, bass all dished out in style.


----------



## supersonic395

untilthen said:


> Success SS.
> 
> You should have played 'Wish you were here' like I'm doing now on LP.




I'll be getting to that shortly...the problem is wanting to listen to everything all at once!!


----------



## supersonic395

As far burning in goes is it best to let the Elise run with music for a good 5-8 hours? 

Of course I'll be keeping my eye on it the whole time

Does anyone know a good blu ray player with phono outputs?


----------



## UntilThen

5-8 hours stretch is fine. Just don't leave it unattended.
  
 I know of a good turntable with phono outputs


----------



## mordy

Hi inthere,
  
 Just wondering if getting the 6 x adapter and loading it up with six 6BL7 tubes (requires external power) will give you enough oomph to drive your headphones...
  
 JV, could you weigh in on this?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Most of us should know the Who. Don't ask me who is WHO.
> 
> Quadrophenia is their 2nd rock opera after Tommy. Album use a lot of natural sound like the crashing of waves on rocks and whistle of a diesel train. You have a very talented group of musicians here. Roger Daltrey, John Enwhistle, Keith Moon and Pete Townsend. I love 70s rock.




Saw them preform this live, a couple of times, back in the day, It's a heck of an effort, that never received it's proper due.

You should read Pete's autobiography. I thought he spoke very poorly of Moon. Absolutely seemed relieved when Moon died and he didn't have to deal with him anymore.

Entwistle was much of the POWER in this band. All was lost, when the Ox passed, in 2002.

The LP's kill the SQ of several digital re-masters. Especially if you have a first pressing, on the Tracks label,

Been listening to Pete's solo LP: "White City" a lot lately, it was also under appreciated.

Enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi inthere,
> 
> Just wondering if getting the 6 x adapter and loading it up with six 6BL7 tubes (requires external power) will give you enough oomph to drive your headphones...
> 
> JV, could you weigh in on this?




I would be surprised if 6x 6BL7's would not drive his load admirably.

And he would take a giant leap in what is 'possible' via a tube amp as well.

I normally associate low impedance with high sensitivity (easy to drive). And high impedance with lower sensitivity (harder to drive).
It was stated as an unusual problem here...low impedance w/low sensitivity. Are we sure that is the case?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Saw them preform this live, a couple of times, back in the day, It's a heck of an effort, that never received it's proper due.
> 
> You should read Pete's autobiography. I thought he spoke very poorly of Moon. Absolutely seemed relieved when Moon died and he didn't have to deal with him anymore.
> 
> ...


 

 Gasps ! It is the Tracks label. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Recorded in England 1973.


----------



## inthere

jazzvinyl said:


> I would be surprised if 6x 6BL7's would not drive his load admirably.
> 
> And he would take a giant leap in what is 'possible' via a tube amp as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ether C is 23ohms I think, but very low volume on the Elise. HD650 is much easier to drive on the Elise, but i don't have many headphones with this impedance. 
  
 What external power supply and adapters would I need?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I would be surprised if 6x 6BL7's would not drive his load admirably.
> 
> And he would take a giant leap in what is 'possible' via a tube amp as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Ether-C is 22 ohms and 92db - that's low impedance and low sensitivity
  
 Beyer T1 is 600 ohms and 102db - that's high impedance and high sensitivity


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Gasps ! It is the Tracks label. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Recorded in England 1973.




No that is the MCA label, a re-issue. Keep an eye out for a 1st pressing on the Tracks label (Dark Brown w/Blue "Tracks" in fancy script).

Here is another excellent LP for your collection:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Entwistle-LP-Too-Late-The-Hero-Canada-Sealed-The-Who-/231550330534

A bit of a Super Group effort, with Joe Walsh on lead guitar, it's a superb album...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Late_the_Hero_%28album%29


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ether-C is 22 ohms and 92db - that's low impedance and low sensitivity
> 
> Beyer T1 is 600 ohms and 102db - that's high impedance and high sensitivity




Got it...


----------



## JazzVinyl

inthere said:


> Ether C is 23ohms I think, but very low volume on the Elise. HD650 is much easier to drive on the Elise, but i don't have many headphones with this impedance.
> 
> What external power supply and adapters would I need?




Ummmmm, Elise specs say 32 ohms is min? Not sure if 23 ohms in the Elise is a good idea? 

Other with these phones may know better than me, all my phones are high impedance.

Sorry


----------



## UntilThen

inthere said:


> Ether C is 23ohms I think, but very low volume on the Elise. HD650 is much easier to drive on the Elise, but i don't have many headphones with this impedance.
> 
> What external power supply and adapters would I need?


 

@aqsw has the same Ether-C but he mentioned that he doesn't need very high volume and he's running Elise with EL3N as drivers with stock power tubes or 6080. He likes it.
  
 HE560 is 32ohms and 95db and I feel that Elise drives it OK. Jerick says his Elise drives the LCD2 fine as well.
  
 Generally OTL amps are ideally suited for high impedance dynamic headphones and I prefer to pair Elise with high impedance dynamic headphones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Gasps ! It is the Tracks label.
> 
> Recorded in England 1973.




Here is the "Track" label...this one bought brand new in 1973:



Did yours come with the big picture book:






.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is the "Track" label...this one bought brand new in 1973:
> 
> Did yours come with the big picture book:


 
 Very nice.
  
 Mine came from CF with love and much appreciated from me. 
  
 No picture book but album cover opens up -  2 LPs. Very authentic.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Very nice.
> 
> Mine came from CF with love and much appreciated from me.
> 
> No picture book but album cover opens up -  2 LPs. Very authentic. :bigsmile_face:




The LP's are not easy to come by these days, any pressing, in any condition.

Your lucky to have them.

Can't have mine


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is another excellent LP for your collection:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Entwistle-LP-Too-Late-The-Hero-Canada-Sealed-The-Who-/231550330534


 
 Why are LPs so cheap? Has everyone given up on LPs?  That's my good fortune.
  
 This John Entwistle LP new is only US$10.22 ....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Why are LPs so cheap? Has everyone given up on LPs?  That's my good fortune.
> 
> This John Entwistle LP new is only US$10.22 ....




Don't complain!

If I didn't already have a nice copy...that one would have been MINE!

Most have long long long ago, given up on them! I love it when people say "They are making a comeback"...

*No, they aren't * 

But great for those with the time and patience, to enjoy them....


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Ox:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXwLUzn6_s[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

Ok I won't complain 
  
 However seriously, LPs are making a come back. 
  
 OMG, CF what is this album? Plain cover but the album rocks. One listen and I can hear very good sonics flowing out of the stylus.  Phew very good !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Ok I won't complain
> 
> However seriously, LPs are making a come back.




No, really, they are not 

If you read the statistics carefully, turns out the "big ramp up" amounts to a tiny fraction of 1% of their popularity in their heyday.

Most pressing equipment, in fact, has been sold for scrap metal....not many houses left, who can actually manufacture them.

Did CF donate you, his entire collection?

BTW, people don't even want CD's anymore either, all physical media sales are in the toilet...


----------



## connieflyer

That is a session that a friend of mine, Butch Small recorded on his private label On World Records, This is a copy of the few pressings that they used to shop the music around to the major record companies.  This is one of a very few disks that were cut. He is a friend of the Snoop Dog crowd, I had invites to parties but wife figured me for dead if I did!


----------



## UntilThen

I can see Carl Butch Small signing on the cover 'To 'CF', a very good buddy and friend'.
  
 This is a very lively album. Head bobbing, shoulder moving )))
  
 It's a very good recording. Excellent !!! Those drums will move ya !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Thought you might like it. Very rare, valuable? just because you have it an very few do!  Shows how they used to do business, before everyone just sent in a digital copy of their, ahem, babies!


----------



## connieflyer

Good night all.


----------



## UntilThen

Night CF !!!
  
 Playing the Stereo Review's Stereo Test Record now.


----------



## mordy

Hi inthere and JV,
  
 My headphones are Yamaha MT-220, 37 ohms and 99db, and I feel that this combination drives them very well.
  





  
 The power tubes are six 6BL7 tubes, mainly made by GE under different labels and Tung Sol. The drivers are two 6SN7GTB Russian re-issue Tung Sol that came with the Elise. This tube combination is a favorite of JV and I must say that this a winner.
  
 The BL tubes provide plenty of drive and the bass is excellent. The main difference compared to using 4 EL3N+ 2 BL tubes with the TS 6SN7GTB is that the bass is better  here for the 6SN7, but the microdynamics and instrument separation are better with the EL3N + 2. Overall, an excellent choice.
  
 If you wish to try this you need an external transformer. Between the two drivers you can see black and red wires coming out from the adapter in the first picture. Just connect these wires to the external transformer. The one pictured here will cost around $50 shipped:
  
 http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/
  




  
 Then you need the custom made Feliks adapter for six octal sockets ($80 shipped):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690?hash=item2ca8ed3fda:g:FEYAAOSwG-1WzSQL
  
  




  
 It plugs right into the two power tube sockets:
  




  
 It might be a good idea to get some inexpensive socket savers to isolate the 6x adapter from the chassis since the BL tubes runs hot.
  
 One advantage of using multiple tubes is that you can get spectacular results from very inexpensive tubes such as the 6BL7, 6BX7 or 6N7. The added drive will make any driver tubes sound better as well. You can use two, four or six tubes.
  
 Another advantage is that the Elise runs very cool.
  
 Here is a night view:
  




  
 Here is my attempt to imitate JV's famous picture:


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Playing the Stereo Review's Stereo Test Record now.




Here is an LP to look for, with incredible sonics:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BILLY-COBHAM-WARNING-VINYL-ALBUM-RECORD-LP-GRP-91020-1985-/201591236966

Pretty much anything, LP, on the GRP label will have incredibly rich, deep sound quality...

This one too, is one you can listen to 300 times, and always hear a detail you had not heard before:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIRELI-LAGRENE-Foreign-Affairs-orig-88-Blue-Note-LP-VG-/361547751008


----------



## UntilThen

After dinner music from a turntable, a tube amp, Beyer T1 with Pavarotti's Arias. Soundstage this wide <----------------------------------------- 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




-------------------------------------------->
  
 So deeeeep so powerfuuuuul.
  
 I hope you're having fun with your Elise.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> After dinner music from a turntable, a tube amp, Beyer T1 with Pavarotti's Arias. Soundstage this wide <-----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just noticed you have a Darkvoice 336 amp.
 Is there any sound similarity with Elise, since it uses the same tube types, albeit fewer of them?
 Thanks.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I am really enjoying your adventure into vinyl-land. It's a little bitter-sweet for me, as many of the LPs that @connieflyer has sent you were in my collection that I sold. But I am very happy you are experiencing the joys of vinyl. And I have great respect for the generosity of CF. The world needs a lot more people like him )))


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Just noticed you have a Darkvoice 336 amp.
> Is there any sound similarity with Elise, since it uses the same tube types, albeit fewer of them?
> Thanks.


 

 I wrote this sometime ago but it still applies.
  
post #9678


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I wrote this sometime ago but it still applies.
> 
> post #9678


 
 Very good-thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. I am really enjoying your adventure into vinyl-land. It's a little bitter-sweet for me, as many of the LPs that @connieflyer has sent you were in my collection that I sold. But I am very happy you are experiencing the joys of vinyl. And I have great respect for the generosity of CF. The world needs a lot more people like him )))


 

 It's nostalgia. You're hands on listening to LP. Taking the record out of the sleeve and putting it on the turntable, brushing it before you drop the needle, it's all part of the ritual of musical zen. However I don't do all these just because it feels good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I love vinyl because it sounds warm and more textured. It's more enveloping, involving and yes soundstage sounds larger. Not imagination here. It's real. Haha ... now I'll get rotten tomatoes  and eggs thrown at me from the digital mobs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@pctazhp it's not too late. Get a turntable and go down memory lane.
  
 I concur. CF is an amazing guy.


----------



## UntilThen

Here @pctazhp  I found you a very nice Linn Sondek LP12. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/104349-fs-superb-refurbished-lp12-linn-sondek-turntable/


----------



## mordy

Something else that I enjoyed in my LP days - reading the linear notes on the record jackets. Try that with a downloaded file lol!
  
 I actually learned a lot by reading all those covers. One of my favorite stories I read goes like this: (pct - don't know if it is politically correct..)
  
 The most famous jazz clarinet player in the 20's was Johnny Dodds. On the back of a LP cover his son, who was a major in the US air force, was interviewed about his father. He told the following story to describe his father:
  
 A lot of gigs were playing at bars and clubs that served alcohol during the prohibition era. The booze was controlled by the mob. Once, on Chicago's South Side, Al Capone entered a speak-easy where Dodds was playing. He asked him to play a certain Irish tune, but Dodds did not know it. Capone took out a $100 bill (in those days a weekly salary was $12)  tore it in half and said: Hey you n---ger, if you know this song next week when I come, I'll give you the other half!
  
 Said his son: My father was a proud person, but he was practical too - he made sure he knew the tune the following week and got the other half of the $100 bill.
  
 Lesson in life? I think so.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Don't complain!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah they are, pretty much streaming, lps and tapes are up, the rest is declining.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi inthere and JV,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi Mordy,

quick question on the transformer and maybe you know the answer while you were on the boards and spoke to non us (115V) people about external heating of the Elise. The mauser F22a is unfortunately 115V/6.3CT/20A but finding a suitable 230V alternative is proving more difficult than I thought. Any recommendations. I could try calling mauser, but today is holiday, unfortunately I already checked their portfolio and did quite some searches online. Any European (230V) members you know using something similar to externally heat. In German speaking countries these frankenstein experiments are somewhat frowned upon, but I would like to try it out at some point.

Thanks
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Here @pctazhp  I found you a very nice Linn Sondek LP12.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Seems nice and a good deal, not sure what shipping would be but good combo, especially the deck and tonearm, also the shure is a good match to the Linn. If that is $AU definitely worth it 


Can'T see the images but assume its in very good condition.


Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Something else that I enjoyed in my LP days - reading the linear notes on the record jackets. Try that with a downloaded file lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Definitely a bluesman, finding that old sad song (almost all good irish songs are sad)
Reminds me of the first verses of Bluesman by Hank Williams Jr.

I'm just a singer, a natural born guitar ringer
Kind of a clinger to sad old songs
I'm not a walk-behinder, I'm a new note finder
But my name's a reminder of a blues man that's already gone

Plus you gotta be smart, you wouldn't diss Capone and 2 months salary for a few hours of work....

Some very good Bluesman stories on the LP jackets, all the Muddy Waters and Howlin Wolf Stories....

Cheers
WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> Yeah they are, pretty much streaming, lps and tapes are up, the rest is declining.
> 
> Cheers
> WB
> ...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Here @pctazhp  I found you a very nice Linn Sondek LP12.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I won't say it isn't tempting!!! The LP12 was a classic model and I think probably the first real high end table.  It has the Valhalla power supply which was a significant upgrade. The SME arm was also a classic, and I actually had the  Shure V15 MK3 cartridge. It was one of the best cartridges I ever owned. When Shure went on to the MK4 and 5, they lost the magic of the MK3, which was highly musical. Candidly, anyone wanting to push the envelope on vinyl should seriously consider that table.
  
 I'm afraid though that my vinyl days are in the past, unless you know of a way to take the record out of its sleeve, put it on the table, apply the brush and lower the cartridge on to the outer grove with no more than 3 clicks of my mouse I'm going to have to pass ))))


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Uh huh, and* film *will surely come back, too...
> 
> Better not sell your *film cameras*, anytime soon, WB...


 
 And be sure to hold on to your supply of these:
  

  
 Even if you are not a photographer, someone here will eventually figure out how to use them in the Elise. Surely they will sound "sublime" )))


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> And be sure to hold on to your supply of these:
> Even if you are not a photographer, someone here will eventually figure out how to use them in the Elise. Surely they will sound "sublime" )))




LOL - lets hope not 

Instamatic, man...surely it will make a comeback


----------



## JazzVinyl

Home for lunch...have my George Benson - "The Other Side Of Abby Road" LP on:


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPMshlghbuc[/VIDEO]



pct is right, most folks dislike "the bother" of LP playback these days


----------



## pctazhp

wb2016 said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Sorry. Brain fart (((
  
 The best idea I could come up with is this to first step down the voltage to 110: https://voltage-converter-transformers.com/collections/step-up-down-voltage-transformer-converter/products/vt-4000-step-up-down-transformer-4000-watts. Then use the Triad transformer. Frankenstein on steroids!!! Maybe someone from Transylvania will have a better idea)))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Well, I won't say it isn't tempting!!! The LP12 was a classic model and I think probably the first real high end table.  It has the Valhalla power supply which was a significant upgrade. The SME arm was also a classic, and I actually had the  Shure V15 MK3 cartridge. It was one of the best cartridges I ever owned. When Shure went on to the MK4 and 5, they lost the magic of the MK3, which was highly musical. Candidly, anyone wanting to push the envelope on vinyl should seriously consider that table.
> 
> I'm afraid though that my vinyl days are in the past, unless you know of a way to take the record out of its sleeve, put it on the table, apply the brush and lower the cartridge on to the outer grove with no more than 3 clicks of my mouse I'm going to have to pass ))))


 

 Can I make it more tempting? You have to travel to Perth to pick it up though. Seller won't post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and @WB2016 it's in Aussie currency.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Better not sell your *film cameras*, anytime soon, WB...


 
 Yeah you think this will make a come back? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's still new after all these years....


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm afraid though that my vinyl days are in the past, unless you know of a way to take the record out of its sleeve, put it on the table, apply the brush and lower the cartridge on to the outer grove with no more than 3 clicks of my mouse I'm going to have to pass ))))


 
  
 This 1948 vinyl jukebox will make it easy for you no?


----------



## connieflyer

Where was that disk I was looking for?


----------



## Kon Peki

I got my EL3Ns and adapters in the mail.  Is it my imagination, or are these lower gain drivers as compared to Sylvania 6SN7s?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yeah you think this will make a come back?    It's still new after all these years....




It has about as much chance as vinyl 

I always hoped that someone would make 'digital backs" for film cameras to "convert them" to digital.

No dice.

Also that article:

http://fortune.com/2016/04/16/vinyl-sales-record-store-day/

Is actually misleading. if you break out the inflation calculator...*385 million spent on LP's in 1988* comes to *777 million in 2015 dollars.
*
So unless *2015 sales exceeded 777 million dollars* spent on LP's *would LP sales be "the highest since 1988*".

Instead it says *412 million was spent in 2015*, and again, via the inflation calc that comes to *213 million in 1988 dollars*.

So....figure it out....it's *not more at all*...more like *1/2 the 1988 level*.

*Cheers!*

BTW, I am *ALL FOR VINYL* and wish it *WOULD* come back, but I know there is* zero chance of that happening*.

Hang on to your* film cameras*, boys!


----------



## connieflyer

untilthen said:


> This 1948 vinyl jukebox will make it easy for you no?


 
 These look more like shellac, maybe 78's?


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> I got my EL3Ns and adapters in the mail.  Is it my imagination, or are these lower gain drivers as compared to Sylvania 6SN7s?


 

 Have you heard it? Using as drivers with your stock power tubes? Gain should be equal or more than 6SN7. My volume dial tells me that.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> These look more like shellac, maybe 78's?


 

 It's a Seeburg Select-O-Matic jukebox.
  
 http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/this-was-a-jukebox-in-1948-1609199856


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> Have you heard it? Using as drivers with your stock power tubes? Gain should be equal or more than 6SN7. My volume dial tells me that.


 
  
 Right now I'm using Mullard 6080s as power tubes.  The 6SN7 drivers had me listening at about 9 o'clock on the volume dial yesterday.  Switching to EL3N drivers today puts me a little past 10 o'clock for similar volume (from HD800S).  I haven't tested with a noise meter.  Just going by ear.  Maybe it's because my home is noisy right now.


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> Right now I'm using Mullard 6080s as power tubes.  The 6SN7 drivers had me listening at about 9 o'clock on the volume dial yesterday.  Switching to EL3N drivers today puts me a little past 10 o'clock for similar volume (from HD800S).  I haven't tested with a noise meter.  Just going by ear.  Maybe it's because my home is noisy right now.


 

 Do an A/B, one after the other. Same song. When it's not noisy.


----------



## pctazhp

kon peki said:


> Right now I'm using Mullard 6080s as power tubes.  The 6SN7 drivers had me listening at about 9 o'clock on the volume dial yesterday.  Switching to EL3N drivers today puts me a little past 10 o'clock for similar volume (from HD800S).  I haven't tested with a noise meter.  Just going by ear.  Maybe it's because my home is noisy right now.


 
 For whatever it is worth, with EL3N as drivers, Chatham 6AS7Gs as power, HD800S and volume on Tidal HD set at about 90% I'm usually at about 9 o'clock. Anything much beyond that would be pretty painful. I think it is about the same with most power tubes I use, although I've been staying pretty consistently with the Chathams lately and haven't had my Mullard 6080s in for a while. I'll let you know if I have a chance to try the 6080s later today.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Can I make it more tempting? You have to travel to Perth to pick it up though. Seller won't post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is the mouse driver included in the price, or is he charging extra for that???
  
 By the way, where is Perth????


----------



## UntilThen

Ok according to my 21st century Samsung Galaxy DB meter app 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  - EL3N sounds louder ... to my ears as well. Same song 'Dreams' by Fleetwood Mac on Tidal Hifi and at 10am for both drivers using Beyer T1 using the same Chatham 6520 power tubes.
  
 EL3N drivers
 Min - 31 ; Avg - 41 ; Max - 68

  
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top drivers
 Min - 34 ; Avg - 41 ; Max - 68


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Is the mouse driver included in the price, or is he charging extra for that???
> 
> By the way, where is Perth????


 

 Perth my friend is the other side of me.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Perth my friend is the other side of me.


 
 Got it )))


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Uh huh, and* film *will surely come back, too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah the numbers are relatively small, but it is one of the few markets that is growing. I have a few friends who are trying to have 180-200g LPs made and all the few good presses are booked and running at capacity. Wait times are far in excess of 6 months, if you want to use good German or Japanese presses. The best presses are almost all from the 70s and tun 24/7 to keep up with demand. But making good LPs is not that easy and quick as it is to make CDs and lets not even talk about streaming The other issue is having and restoring the original tapes and not the "what's the point" digital mastered lps. Its all a relative niche but a growing one. Also it is not numbers but the actual sales that is interesting, download one song or buy an albun, but lp has made a huge combeback and companies such as Project are real success stories.

And funny that you mention it I would never sell my film cameras, own a Contax 645, Leica M6 TTL, and a Hasselblatt 203FE, scan those at 12800dpi .

For the Blad that is a 74 mega pixel "analog texture" image that truely is diverse from digital. Although I agree if you don't have the camera and did a lot of photography the cost benefit ratio is not that good. 

But it is somewhat similar to lps vs mp3s/downloads in music, it prevents you from just clicking through instead of really engaging with the image. You can still do it with digital as well, and I do/did that as well but there is just something in bringing it to celliloid that has something unique. If you are really committed to something imo film cameras are still the way to go, especially if you like to make poster size prints. The amount of time and money I spend to go to a nice location would be more than the price of a few rolls of film. But I am weird like that. I do have to admit that my photographing has suffered due to time constaints and have been doing it far too little. 

Also I would not get rid of the film cameras because they are inherited and/or there is a big story/attachment there as well, so unfortunately I am really one of those nutters who will keep their film cameras. Funny thing really that you picked up on that.


Cheers
WB

Its a niche market that will likely not come back though


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Well, I won't say it isn't tempting!!! The LP12 was a classic model and I think probably the first real high end table.  It has the Valhalla power supply which was a significant upgrade. The SME arm was also a classic, and I actually had the  Shure V15 MK3 cartridge. It was one of the best cartridges I ever owned. When Shure went on to the MK4 and 5, they lost the magic of the MK3, which was highly musical. Candidly, anyone wanting to push the envelope on vinyl should seriously consider that table.
> 
> I'm afraid though that my vinyl days are in the past, unless you know of a way to take the record out of its sleeve, put it on the table, apply the brush and lower the cartridge on to the outer grove with no more than 3 clicks of my mouse I'm going to have to pass ))))



 


Get a buttler


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Can I make it more tempting? You have to travel to Perth to pick it up though. Seller won't post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yup so that is about 1400USD, not bad for a nicely restored classic combo you will be hard pressed to find something better for that price in that shape.

Going to Perth will of course mess up the value of that proposition for most of us
WB


----------



## Kon Peki

untilthen said:


> Ok according to my 21st century Samsung Galaxy DB meter app
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Just checked mine, and they came out about the same as one another using pink noise:


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This 1948 vinyl jukebox will make it easy for you no?


 
 And do you also think UNIVAC is about to make a comeback???
  

  
 Have you told your wife you will need to clear everything out of your house????


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Yeah you think this will make a come back?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I am partial, but keep the lenses, and get a matching DSLR for canon shouldn''t be an issue. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

@UntilThen The reason why vinyl sound is warmer than the digital


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> This 1948 vinyl jukebox will make it easy for you no?



 


I still have several Wurlitzer jukeboxes at my parents house and was introduced to vinyl that way actually. Now refurbing a Wurlitzer and rebuilding it with audiophile setups and access to a UI with mouse could work. But having a butler is more classy, has additional benefits and would likely cost as much for a year than an audiophile jukebox built.

Cheers
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

Now playing  Awesome sound even in the digital domain LOL


----------



## pctazhp

wb2016 said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I won't say it isn't tempting!!! The LP12 was a classic model and I think probably the first real high end table.  It has the Valhalla power supply which was a significant upgrade. The SME arm was also a classic, and I actually had the  Shure V15 MK3 cartridge. It was one of the best cartridges I ever owned. When Shure went on to the MK4 and 5, they lost the magic of the MK3, which was highly musical. Candidly, anyone wanting to push the envelope on vinyl should seriously consider that table.
> ...


 
 I'll just explain to my wife her new duties and tell her it was your idea


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> @UntilThen The reason why vinyl sound is warmer than the digital


 
 That is hot ... not just warm. 
  
 Good lord, you guys are in a talking mood today.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> It has about as much chance as vinyl
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah comeback does not imply anywhere near the levels they were at before, and they will never become the go to medium again, but it is increasing in sales every year which surprised everyone, also tapes (R2R) are making a comeback but that is just a truely niche market. 

Comback does not mean competing with the state as it was before decline it just means better than a state in the (recent past).
Its the same with rockbands. Deep Purple had a huge comeback with perfect strangers (84?) but that was not really at the level the band was in the mid 70s. (I am not a huge fan but it was considered one of the biggest rockband comebacks). 

So I think it is mostly a definition of comeback. Hopefully there will be somewhat of a comeback for vinyl but the big issue is high quality presses that aren't really manufactured and the select few who are maestros of the lost art. Once that is fixed we will likely see a fall in prices.

Cheers
Wb


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Ok according to my 21st century Samsung Galaxy DB meter app
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


They did sound a bit quieter befor burning in for a few days, best not to crank it up too much in the beginning though for the burn in or so some theories go.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> It has about as much chance as vinyl
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Oh forgot about the digital backs they make them still. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Backs/ci/2788/N/3656173699

But they are bloody expensive, if I photographed professionally that might be an option but not like this.

They also made the Leica R8 that had the option of a digital back, but in the end it was just cheaper to get a new digital and similar to hifi very few needed the refinement when taking pics of the family or vacation. Similar to vinyl, few need the quality and really engage in a thing enough to warrant it. 

Today digital is really getting to be on par with vinyl, same as in photography a few years back, in terms of sound quality its just the je ne sais quoi of the other medium that will convince you if you are really into the hobby.

Cheers
Wb


----------



## WB2016

kon peki said:


> Just checked mine, and they came out about the same as one another using pink noise:



 


Give it a bit of burn in they should become a bit louder, but the difference is small.
WB


----------



## UntilThen

Vinyl is making a comeback according to Voice of America. Until then start saving for a turntable 
  
 http://www.voanews.com/media/video/vinyl-records-making-a-comeback/3346843.html


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> That is hot ... not just warm.
> 
> Good lord, you guys are in a talking mood today.


 
 LOL can you guess the records placed in the background?


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 The suggestion for the 20A 6.3V transformer came from 2359glenn. Since he is an amp designer and builder, I am sure that he can direct you to a source for a 230V transformer.


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> So I think it is mostly a definition of comeback. Hopefully there will be somewhat of a comeback for vinyl but the big issue is high quality presses that aren't really manufactured and the select few who are maestros of the lost art. Once that is fixed we will likely see a fall in prices.




I do not think its a matter of "definition" of comeback. I think the many internet articles you see on this subject, flatly overstate the sales "gush". Vinyl is still quite "niche".

I do think it's amazing that sales are increasing at all. Lets hope it continues.

And I agree that great pressings are a rarity. i would love better pressings at better prices, but I am not holding my breath.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Vinyl is making a comeback according to Voice of America. Until then start saving for a turntable
> 
> http://www.voanews.com/media/video/vinyl-records-making-a-comeback/3346843.html




Your article says "Estimated 100 million records sold last year" but the other article said 412 million total in sales for 2015.

New LP's do not cost $4.12 a piece (I wish).

If you believe VOA article, the total sales should have been closer to $2,500,000.00 as new records cost about $25.00 a piece.

So...it's all: "easy to say" and "popular to say", but very hard to really nail down".

Like I said...film is coming back, too...*NOT *


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> The suggestion for the 20A 6.3V transformer came from 2359glenn. Since he is an amp designer and builder, I am sure that he can direct you to a source for a 230V transformer.


 
 http://export.farnell.com/hammond/185g12/bobbins-transformer/dp/4568990


----------



## pctazhp

kon peki said:


> Just checked mine, and they came out about the same as one another using pink noise:


 
 Glad you and @UntilThen got that straightened out )) I put the 6080s in tonight and had to bump up the volume to just under 10:00 o'clock from 9:00 with the Chatham 6AS7Gs (both using EL3N as drivers).
  
 I just wanted to thank you for bringing up the issue. It got me to pop my 6080s in to the power slots. I don't think I have tried them since I got my HD800S. For me, the EL3N/6080 combo is very good with the HD800S.


----------



## Kon Peki

pctazhp said:


> For me, the EL3N/6080 combo is very good with the HD800S.


 
  
 I agree!


----------



## Solarium

Any comparisons out there with the Bottlehead Mainline?


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> @aqsw
> has the same Ether-C but he mentioned that he doesn't need very high volume and he's running Elise with EL3N as drivers with stock power tubes or 6080. He likes it.
> 
> HE560 is 32ohms and 95db and I feel that Elise drives it OK. Jerick says his Elise drives the LCD2 fine as well.
> ...





Exactly UT. I listen to my Ether Cs with El3ns and stock powers.The volume is qite loud at 12 oclock.
I also listen with Oppo PM3s and there is very little difference (if any) in volume between the two.
I'm very happy with my setup.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Also, the LCD2 is easier to drive and thus more friendly to OTL amps than is the HE-560, at least to sound its absolute best.


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> Also, the LCD2 is easier to drive and thus more friendly to OTL amps than is the HE-560, at least to sound its absolute best.


 

 HE560 works fine on Elise but I prefer the T1. Also I don't like the tight clamp on the HE560. I cannot use it for long. Hurts the head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 LJ, how's your new ZDS?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> HE560 works fine on Elise but I prefer the T1. Also I don't like the tight clamp on the HE560. I cannot use it for long. Hurts the head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sure it works fine. The HE-500 was lovely on my 339 but it lacked the impact and dynamics that a high-current amplifier provided, which became especially apparent when I acquired speaker taps for the Xindak amplifier. 
  
 Um...the ZDS is amazing. Different league of sound, but the 339 actually holds up extremely well, and I don't think I'll be selling it. Initial impressions are highly unreliable, so I'm just jotting down impressions in a Word doc and will post some this weekend. Very spacious, resolving yet euphonic, grand, powerful, impressive!, indeed "sublime." It engages and enchants you. I actually haven't rolled what is considered its most prized tube yet (Mullard ECC35), which I have here, so it's best to withhold judgment. Saving the best for last 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But the RCA Red Base 6sl7gt is considered by several to be the most suitable for the HD800, and I have that burning in now. Build quality of the amp is faultless, truly. They didn't cut any corners here. I opened up the amp and had a look at the soldering; it's impeccable. 
  
 In any case, this is the Elise thread. I am actually very open to the idea the Elise will give many amps above its price point a run for its money. Indeed, I initially preferred the sound of the 339 to the ZDS, but initial impressions are always unreliable. We shall see. Both amps are "keepers. 
  
 Best,
 LJ


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> I'm sure it works fine. The HE-500 was lovely on my 339 but it lacked the impact and dynamics that a high-current amplifier provided, which became especially apparent when I acquired speaker taps for the Xindak amplifier.
> 
> Um...the ZDS is amazing. Different league of sound, but the 339 actually holds up extremely well, and I don't think I'll be selling it. Initial impressions are highly unreliable, so I'm just jotting down impressions in a Word doc and will post some this weekend. Very spacious, resolving yet euphonic, grand, powerful, impressive!, indeed "sublime." It engages and enchants you. I actually haven't rolled what is considered its most prized tube yet (Mullard ECC35), which I have here, so it's best to withhold judgment. Saving the best for last
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry it was a very general question but initial impressions are interesting. That's why I wanted to know so thanks a lot for quite a detailed response. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 You open up the amp? Ok no comment... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's ok about this being the Elise thread because I'm just fascinated by other tube amps, especially one of the calibre of ZDS. So 339 still holds up? Now I'll never be the wiser because I still haven't heard one. 
  
 Ps... fully agree with your 1st paragraph with regards to HE560.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> Sorry it was a very general question but initial impressions are interesting. That's why I wanted to know so thanks a lot for quite a detailed response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. Why no comment on opening up the bottom of the chassis of the amp? It's within warranty.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi WB2016,
> ...




Would something like this be close enough?



 http://www.toroidal-transformer.com/shop/toroidal-transformers/120va/55/2x-6v-toroidal-transformer-120va.html


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> Thanks. Why no comment on opening up the bottom of the chassis of the amp? It's within warranty.


 

 It's just me being my cautious self so I've not open up Elise and take a peep at what's inside. In case my clumsy fingers pull some wires... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Always good to know the soldering are quality work.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> HE560 works fine on Elise but I prefer the T1. Also I don't like the tight clamp on the HE560. I cannot use it for long. Hurts the head. :etysmile:
> 
> LJ, how's your new ZDS?




I said the same thing about HE560 lol


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> It's just me being my cautious self so I've not open up Elise and take a peep at what's inside. In case my clumsy fingers pull some wires... :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Always good to know the soldering are quality work.




I needed to look to ensure it is the latest revision. It is. Trust me when I say I am not attempting to modify a single thing in this amp.

Back on topic: what LP is your favorite? Dark side?


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> Back on topic: what LP is your favorite? Dark side?


 

 It's hard to pick a favorite but Dark Side of the Moon ranks right up there. I love Pink Floyd. This album remains on the chart for a staggering 741 weeks.
  
 Love all the Dire Straits albums because they are very well produced and sound quality is great.
  
 Then there's Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues Volume II and III, which I have not heard of until now. I play it a lot. Instruments are so startling clear. All the tracks are lovely and musical. Very enjoyable.
  
 Looks like I've really gone to the dark side !!!


----------



## listen4joy

I put on eye one this one but there is also ECP Torpedo 3 dont care to diy, wonder how these two compare.


----------



## UntilThen

listen4joy said:


> I put on eye one this one but there is also ECP Torpedo 3 dont care to diy, wonder how these two compare.


 

 We don't have much comparisons with other tube amps. I've never heard the ECP Torpedo 3.
  
@Solarium wanted to know how Elise compares with Bottlehead Crack Mainline. I don't think anyone here has got that.


----------



## Lord Raven

Now playing  Awesome sound!!!


----------



## WB2016

oskari said:


> Would something like this be close enough?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks I'll ask Glenn.

WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Now playing  Awesome sound!!!




Do you have a digital remaster or DSD? 

The original LP's are well known to sound very murky. Especially lacking in bass quantity, and impact.


----------



## pctazhp

Thought it might be time to finally post a picture of my own little corner of paradise. So simple but so amazing)))


----------



## Oskari

wb2016 said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > Would something like this be close enough?
> ...




He did post this:




2359glenn said:


> http://export.farnell.com/hammond/185g12/bobbins-transformer/dp/4568990




That's 28 A, though.

Edit: Hammond 185F12 is a 20.6 A model.



 https://www.hammfg.com/electronics/transformers/power/185


----------



## 2359glenn

oskari said:


> wb2016 said:
> 
> 
> > oskari said:
> ...


 

 The problem with the hammond is it has to be wired up and should be put in a box or it will be dangerous.
 And the 28 amp was the only one Farnell had and it would still be coming from Newark in the USA the same company.
 I can have these transformers made at Heybore transformer here in the US but it will be weeks for a custom transformer to be made.
 And at least $25 to be shipped to Europe.
 If it was a group buy it might be worth it.


----------



## 2359glenn

wb2016 said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > Would something like this be close enough?
> ...


 

 This transformer will work fine just not look so good


----------



## richdytch

Woop woop, some RCA JAN 6as7g grey plates arrived. Sounding rather smooth, with a nice full bottom end. Still burning in, but might be a nice jazz tube. Or a nice anything tube. My two EL3N arrived today, but still waiting on the adapters. I'm only really searching the surface of tube rolling on the elise, but enjoying pretty much everything so far.


----------



## WB2016

oskari said:


> He did post this:
> 
> That's 28 A, though.
> 
> ...



 


Thanks Oskari,

what is the 2x230v ???

What does that mean? Any idea.
Take Care
WB


----------



## WB2016

2359glenn said:


> This transformer will work fine just not look so good



 


Cool I will see if there are better options, but it will be something I might look into in the near future, but still odd that Mauser does not have a 230v model of the Triad they have a big office in Munich I will call on Monday.

Thanks again.

WB


----------



## WB2016

2359glenn said:


> The problem with the hammond is it has to be wired up and should be put in a box or it will be dangerous.
> And the 28 amp was the only one Farnell had and it would still be coming from Newark in the USA the same company.
> I can have these transformers made at Heybore transformer here in the US but it will be weeks for a custom transformer to be made.
> And at least $25 to be shipped to Europe.
> If it was a group buy it might be worth it.



 


Hmn, I will think about it but the added cost and time I will need to consider.

Much appreciated input thanks.
WB


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thought it might be time to finally post a picture of my own little corner of paradise. So simple but so amazing)))


 
  
 The simple things in life are.... not free but good.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Woop woop, some RCA JAN 6as7g grey plates arrived. Sounding rather smooth, with a nice full bottom end. Still burning in, but might be a nice jazz tube. Or a nice anything tube. My two EL3N arrived today, but still waiting on the adapters. I'm only really searching the surface of tube rolling on the elise, but enjoying pretty much everything so far.


 
  
 Slow and easy. As long as you're enjoying it Rich. You pretty much describe the RCA 6AS7G sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Love piano solos. 5am in the morning to the beautiful piano music of George Winston. Lovely.


----------



## Oskari

wb2016 said:


> Thanks Oskari,
> 
> what is the 2x230v ???
> 
> ...




It's a bit of bollocks. :rolleyes:

These transformers have dual primaries that you must connect in series for 230 volt operation or in parallel for 115 volt operation.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> Slow and easy. As long as you're enjoying it Rich. You pretty much describe the RCA 6AS7G sound.




UT, it's working very nicely right now with Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants on vinyl...


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I love how you guys are using vinyl as source, sonically superior to any digital DAC.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> UT, it's working very nicely right now with Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants on vinyl...


 

 I want to get Miles Davis on vinyl. Kind of Blue.
  
 Here's another great piano solo by Jim Bajor who says that recording a solo piano is not an easy task. It's finding the right piano and the right setting. They finally found the magnificent C. Bechestein Concert Grand Piano from Germany.
  

  
 ps... Oskari, who needs sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> I love how you guys are using vinyl as source, sonically superior to any digital DAC.


 

 Hahaha the last time I implied this, I was almost stretchered off the thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I take it you are listening to vinyl?


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Hahaha the last time I implied this, I was almost stretchered off the thread.




No need for that  We need to spread the word, for the greater good (or something). It's physical, it makes you listen to an entire album (more than cd's and definitely more than digital imo), it's analog and almost as good as r2r when done correct. I love it, everyone else should too... lol!

Btw, my Elise is in Copenhagen atm! Maybe I'll go get her


----------



## mordy

Kor du, eller tar du taget?


----------



## WB2016

oskari said:


> It's a bit of bollocks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks 
WB


----------



## oshipao

mordy said:


> Kor du, eller tar du taget?




Haha! Mordy, my man! Jag tror att jag inväntar budet trots allt  But I do not have a car, so I would have taken the train if should have decided to go fetch her.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> I want to get Miles Davis on vinyl. Kind of Blue.
> 
> Here's another great piano solo by Jim Bajor who says that recording a solo piano is not an easy task. It's finding the right piano and the right setting. They finally found the magnificent C. Bechestein Concert Grand Piano from Germany.
> 
> ...




Nice, I'll check that out. Miles Davis has become something of an addiction for me. Years ago I couldn't see what was so great about him, now I realise I was looking for the wrong things.

I love a good recording of a piano - very hard to do indeed.


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> I want to get Miles Davis on vinyl. Kind of Blue.
> 
> Here's another great piano solo by Jim Bajor who says that recording a solo piano is not an easy task. It's finding the right piano and the right setting. They finally found the magnificent C. Bechestein Concert Grand Piano from Germany.
> 
> ...



 


If you like great Pianos an solo piano recordings check out the Fazioli 308s, they are 3,08m long vs. the 2,74m concert grand pianos. They reinvented the piano and some of the best reference cds we use because of exceptional recording, full range and harmonics use the f308. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> The problem with the hammond is it has to be wired up and should be put in a box or it will be dangerous. And the 28 amp was the only one Farnell had and it would still be coming from Newark in the USA the same company.




Yeah, I can see that the availability is not very good (in Europe).


----------



## richdytch

WB, I will check some I'd those recordings out, thank you.


----------



## mordy

Hi oshipao,
  
 We have a forum member in Denmark, suuup, and he had some strange experiences with the Danish post office, so I would not take a chance - patience and talamod!


----------



## Kon Peki

Wrapped some electrical tape around those adapters.  Still a bit of an eyesore but better than the white, IMO.


----------



## WB2016

liu junyuan said:


> I love how you guys are using vinyl as source, sonically superior to any digital DAC.



 


Well I am a huge fan of vinyl but this is too much of a blanket statement to let stand At least when you take it in regard to the typical measurres to evaluate sonic characteristics. 


It all depends on the recording and file, and what vinyl/turntable you use and to what dac you are comparing. Lets say you have a dcs Debusy, MSB Diamond or Totaldac D2 tube , all the power conditioning before and an equivalent streamer that will be hard to beat unless you are going for Kronos, SME 30/2 or Techdas AF1, turntables when judging the "objective" neutral fideltiy quality. TOTL digital is getting pretty close to TOTL vinyl. But the analog feel is still better. If you want the best go tape Reel to Reel.

However for the experience of apreciating music vinyl is really hard to beat because of how involving the process is and often the recordings are much better too, plus there is just the analog chain and source. Its the same with the Elise, for me its (at least in private not professionally) about just experiencing the music and the Elise gives you all the feel, here vinyl is great as well. However I really, really like to let go when listening to music for longer periods of time so then a good dac with the Elise does the trick. Or when space is limited dac is nice. Seeing all the friends that have rooms just for the vinyl...

Cheers
WB


----------



## oshipao

I he





mordy said:


> Hi oshipao,
> 
> We have a forum member in Denmark, suuup, and he had some strange experiences with the Danish post office, so I would not take a chance - patience and talamod!




I hear you. No, I guess it would be in town tomorrow, but I guess monday is as good a day as another  I have hard to get time to get her singung this weekend anyway. CL final tomorrow night (morning for UT?) 

Listen to my HD600 from my iphone and spotify now. It's okay, but very claustrophobic :-/


----------



## WB2016

kon peki said:


> Wrapped some electrical tape around those adapters.  Still a bit of an eyesore but better than the white, IMO.



 


Yeah looks better. 

I used black spaypaint and some maskingtape, looks more professional you just have to go slow and give it a few coats with hq spray.
The shrinkwrap black someone posted also looked quite ok. 

Spraypain is also better for the quad or 6x adapters that are a real eyesore

Cheers
WB


----------



## oshipao

wb2016 said:


> liu junyuan said:
> 
> 
> > I love how you guys are using vinyl as source, sonically superior to any digital DAC.
> ...




You kind of nailed it there WB,

It's preferences (and conveniance etc.) that decides what's best for you. SQ wise I think you may get pretty close each other if funds allowed. I first and foremost love the format, no fragile discs and something you may hold and behold when bought.


----------



## oshipao

Speaking of Hammond...

Makes me think of Billy Preston and Booker T. Billy's below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlxxmNP2MKw


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 Regarding a power supply, I use a PC power supply with a voltage regulator. There must be tons of power supplies available for computers for 230V. Glenn claims that they are not as clean sounding as better grade transformers, but I do not feel that I have a problem.
  
 The one I use is 430W and puts out 15A at 12V. You may be able to get one for free from an older discarded computer; the 15A voltage regulator is around $13 or less. Just a suggestion - not elegant, but works very well. And when you want to try your stash of 12SN7 tubes you don't even need the voltage regulator.....


----------



## Oskari

oshipao said:


> Speaking of Hammond...
> 
> Makes me think of Billy Preston and Booker T. Billy's below.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlxxmNP2MKw




Not the same Hammond, but that is quite something!

P.S. UT, I do! My hours are pretty irregular, though. :bigsmile_face:


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Speaking of Hammond...
> 
> Makes me think of Billy Preston and Booker T. Billy's below.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlxxmNP2MKw


 

 I really like this. I want to play like Billy.


----------



## UntilThen

kon peki said:


> Wrapped some electrical tape around those adapters.  Still a bit of an eyesore but better than the white, IMO.


 
  
 Don't you love my gleaming white?


----------



## UntilThen

Days of Future Passed The Moody Blues with The London Festival Orchestra... is the 2nd album by English rock band the 'Moody Blues'. This LP is by Deram Records 1967. Covers are aging but the LP is still pristine with nary a scratch. This is a fusion of pop composition and classical writing.
  
 You've looked after this so well, CF.


----------



## connieflyer

One of my favorites, I also have the cd and it is not as engaging as the vinyl. Let those clocks ring out!


----------



## Kon Peki

I've been comparing them for a couple days now, and overall I prefer the Sylvania 6SN7GTBs to the EL3Ns as drivers.  To me, the 6SN7s sound more forward, lifelike, and detailed.  Also had a chance to try some RCA 6AS7Gs, Tung sol 5998s, and overall prefer the slightly sweeter, smoother Mullard 6080s as power tubes.
  
 Done tube rolling now.  It has been expensive.  Interesting that some of the least expensive tubes have been my favorites!


----------



## Suuup

So, about a month ago I got a pair of 1626, AKA VT-137, AKA CV1755. This is a 12.6V single triode tube. It's been called a "poor man's 300B". In case you don't know, 300B is a very prestigious directly heated triode (Elise uses indirectly heated tubes). 300B is super expensive -- thought the GEC 6AS7G is expensive? You haven't seen a good Western Electric 300B. There's currently a pair for sale on Ebay for $6,000 USD. Yea...
  
 Anyway, here's some pretty pictures of this 1626 tube.
  

  
 I've finally found some time to make some adapters. Since these are single triodes and not double triodes, they have significantly less gain than most other tubes we run. 
  

  
 Here they are running in my Elise.
  
 I can confirm, there is sound. Will need some time to evaluate. I'm really liking the sub bass extension though. 
  
 Edit: Also, I don't need the usual cord from the heater to the Elise RCA connection. No hum, what so ever. Any theories as to why? I need it with both FDD20 and my 6C33C.


----------



## listen4joy

anyone heard glenn amp as well?


----------



## lukeap69

listen4joy said:


> anyone heard glenn amp as well?


 
 @gibosi has one. not sure if he has an Elise.
  
 I have the latest OTL amp built by Glenn but I haven't heard the Elise though.


----------



## Suuup

I have to say, midbass is incredible on those 1626.


----------



## UntilThen

I've had Elise for 7 months now and I'm still very happy with it. I'm almost using it everyday. Now with the addition of the turntable, I'm even more captivated. I must say I'm passed tube rolling now. I'll use a set of tubes for a week now before I make a change. 
  
 I move the turntable and Elise to the lounge yesterday and it sounded very good with the speakers... and subwoofer. It has the subterranean reach to middle earth.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers to all tube amp users.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, really nice setup there, when is the next BBQ at your place so I can listen to your system?  Need to give me a few weeks notice as getting anywhere from Hawaii takes time


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @UntilThen, really nice setup there, when is the next BBQ at your place so I can listen to your system?  Need to give me a few weeks notice as getting anywhere from Hawaii takes time


 

 Dave, we'll do a trading places. I'll spend some time in your cave and you can spend some time in mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Make sure you leave those golf course passes behind for me.... and those lovely caddies.


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> Dave, we'll do a trading places. I'll spend some time in your cave and you can spend some time in mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I'll leave the passes for the golf but the lovely caddies will be with me, sorry .
  
I can't believe how often you change tubes, once a week is quite often to me, I've been rotating tubes in my Lyr2, Ember and BH Crack about once a month, sometimes longer.  About the only time I switch tubes out faster is when I get new ones and want to try them out or when someone asked how a certain tube will sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes gradually I'll swap tubes less after 4 months of intense tube rolling. It's just sitting back and enjoying the music now. I guess that's the goal.


----------



## pctazhp

kon peki said:


> I've been comparing them for a couple days now, and overall I prefer the Sylvania 6SN7GTBs to the EL3Ns as drivers.  To me, the 6SN7s sound more forward, lifelike, and detailed.  Also had a chance to try some RCA 6AS7Gs, Tung sol 5998s, and overall prefer the slightly sweeter, smoother Mullard 6080s as power tubes.
> 
> Done tube rolling now.  It has been expensive.  Interesting that some of the least expensive tubes have been my favorites!


 
 I found your post interesting because I think we are running the same DAC and headphones with the Elise
  
 I agree that the Sylvania 6SNtGTBs work well in the Elise. I generally experience the same differences you describe between the Sylvanias and the EL3Ns, although my definite preference is still the EL3Ns. I just find the EL3Ns more "musical" for lack of a better word. But it is certainly a matter of taste. It also may be a difference in music and recording preferences. I think the EL3Ns may be slightly more "forgiving" - again for lack of a better word.
  
 What I find very interesting is how great the Elise sounds using the very tubes for which it was designed. Running either the Sylvanias or EL3Ns (I recognize the Elise was not designed specifically for the EL3Ns) with my Chatham 6AS7Gs, or even my 5998s or Mullard 6080s works very good for me. Also works great with the TS7236s or 6520s. I feel no need for multiple adapters or external power. Glad you have found what works for you. Most of the time I'm just lost in my listening with EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 PS. I can't help but repeat what has been said over and over - the EL3N's do take many hours to reach their potential )))


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Dave, we'll do a trading places. I'll spend some time in your cave and you can spend some time in mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 UT:  My place here in Scottsdale is available for trade during the months of July and August. It is a great time to visit and avoid our harsh, cold, snowy winters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It there are any caddies still here in July and August they usually aren't wearing very much )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  My place here in Scottsdale is available for trade during the months of July and August. It is a great time to visit and avoid our harsh, cold, snowy winters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hahaha I'll remember that. I bet there's no shortage of stylus from the Cactus.
  
 I went to the Sydney CanJam meet with Raytheon 7N7 and Tung Sol 5998 because I love that simple combo too. 7N7 sounds similar to the Sylvania 6SN7gtb. This is how it looks at the meet.
  

  
  
 Visseaux, Fivre, Mazda 6N7g, C3G, ECC31, FDD20 and EL3N. We've a lot of choices really. All great sounding tubes. 
  
 Have a look at post #9291.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Do you have a digital remaster or DSD?
> 
> The original LP's are well known to sound very murky. Especially lacking in bass quantity, and impact.


 
 Hi JV,
  
 I have the 24-192 digital download  I wish it was a DSD, I loved this album.
  
  
 I can feel the beat like a Spanish dancer under my feet


----------



## pctazhp

OMG @UntilThen !!!   @DavidA is a total fraud. There is no way he ever has time to even think about headphones, let alone actual listen to a pair. Have you ever seen this: http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/1047336/the-girls/ ?????
  







  
 HE'S MY HERO


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> OMG @UntilThen !!!   @DavidA is a total fraud. There is no way he ever has time to even think about headphones, let alone actual listen to a pair. Have you ever seen this: http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/1047336/the-girls/ ?????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ma man


----------



## connieflyer

NO WAY he has time for anything, I could fall in the canal and walk on water!


----------



## WB2016

suuup said:


> I have to say, midbass is incredible on those 1626.



 


Well if they are poor man''s 300Bs that would be expected The 300Bs (at least better ones) are really not beatable in the midrange but often lack extension in the highs and especially lows and not exactly neutral. There have been some great amps at the Munich Highend that successfully combined 845 and 300Bs together e.g. in the Voxativ room, to get the extension, musicality, warmth and midrange gold.

How is the extension of the 1626, should they be combined with other tubes similar to the 845 and 300Bs?

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the suggestion might try that as a stop gap measure until I find a good alternative. 

Take Care
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> Don't you love my gleaming white?



 


Really gives it the plumber chic. IT reminds me of some of the DIY PVC pipe framin I did. Also the sticker works. If you have guests over the black spraypaint does wonders to give the Elise the simple elegence back, and is easy to do with some masking tape. You can still scratch the adapter type into the color on the bottom if you want. 

 I myself am actually not bothered by the regulare and dual EL3N adapters and the brass adapters anymore, but when I had a female guest come over she asked me why don't I finally put some real sockets on those, seems like your experiment worked they sound good. (She assumed I built them). Long story short you cannot have the Elise fed by silver hifi cables and nice looking power cords and leave the PVC white when there are girls around...

I usually have the standard tube in when quests come, but was enjoying some 5998 and single EL3N. The 5998 with c3gs instead also looks impressive, very industrial

Well the many uses of an Elise, not just for the ears

Take Care
WB


----------



## DavidA

I don't spend all my time with my GF Lily and the girls (some of you might think I'm nut to do otherwise), I have a life away from them usually 1 day a week when I go out with the guy (but Lily and some of the girls are out with us anyway).  Also have a lot of free time, been retired for 2 years, having the girls around just makes my day go by faster (I get bored quickly), and I like variety in wine, woman, and song.  
  
 Usually listening with headphones 4-6 hours a day since I don't want to wake Lily or the girls if they happen to sleep over since I usually get by with 3-4 hours sleep while most of the girls need 7-10.
  
 Still haven't decided on an amp yet but have narrowed it down to Elise, Airist Audio Heron 5, and Zana Deux.  But even if I get something other than the Elise I'll still visit this thread, love the music recommendations and very friendly posters here.
  
@WB2016, sexy looking audio equipment (WA7d when I had one) is a great conversation piece for women since most have no idea what you are talking about but it makes you seem very knowledgeable, but I've found that learning to cook and know a little about wines is even better.


----------



## connieflyer

For you guitar lovers Neil Schon..Journey 2001.


----------



## Lord Raven

Tonight I listened to some Phil Collins, awesome albums, great music 
  
 24/192 digital recording by the HDTracks, I do have the DSD, I was only going to compare. DSD next time hehe


----------



## mordy

I'm not done tube rolling - yet. Since I have the 6x adapter I have many more combinations to try to find my preferred sound. I would say that I switch tubes almost daily, but not all of them.
  
 So far, I am almost always coming back to the EL3N as drivers. Experimenting with different power tube combinations. At times, when trying different tubes there is an instant dead end - too much hum - cannot figure out in advance what is going to hum or not.
  
 So far among the best combinations I have tried are 2 EL3N and 4 EL3N + 2 6BL7, and eight 6BL7. 2 EL3N and 2 each of 6BL7, 6N7 and 6BX7 was also nice.
  
 Now I am trying 2 EL3N + 4 x 6BL7+ 2 EL3N  but this is lacking energy and vividness compared to the first two above. The presentation is too polite for my taste.
  
 For those of you using 6 x EL3N i must say that adding 2 x 6BL7 to the power tubes added an astonishing improvement to the SQ.


----------



## DecentLevi

Incidentally before Mordy posted the above, I had an inkling to try more combinations with the dual 6AS7 to 6BL7 / 6SN7 adapters as powers... So I actually tried 3 more combinations alongside the EL3N as powers (swapping for the 6BL7 in the back). Two EL3N +: two C3G, two FDD20 and quad 6J5 (using respective adapters stacked on above mentioned adapter)... the results? *Hummm* let's just say they liked to 'add their own soundtrack' - a very loud one at that. Something was very amiss here so I definitely advise against these combos with two dual 6AS7 to 6SN7 / 6BL7 adapters, alongside the EL3N: 6SN7, C3G, FDD20 and quad 6J5.
  
 That is not to say anything against the above mentioned dual adapter however - it performs marvelously as the powers for Elise and enables great flexibility. Even more so with the 6-tube version of the adapter. I for one am feeling not so against going that route even with it's required external P/S, but just don't have that much money to throw around at present. I can also say that it definitely seems Mordy and @HOWIE13 hear things similar to me though


----------



## DecentLevi

So next I went ahead with the following concoction:
  
 Powers: *Two EL3N + two 6BL7* *intermixed *(the absolute king for me so far with any drivers!!)
 Drivers:  *Quad 6J5 intermixed *(two Zenith and two Visseaux 6J5, with two required adapters)
  

  
 The results? Complete *'Wowza'!!!* Shockingly energetic, organic, lifelike, punchy, full, detailed. 
Boundless and exquisite. The most organic sound I've ever heard from home audio!
 Perfect? nearly so but a smidget more lush than I prefer - yet still surpasses every other combination I've tried (around 30).
  
 And somehow, the hum I was previously hearing with two single 6SN7's in place of the drivers is completely gone (on high impedance 'cans like the HD 650 anyway). Granted the above may look a little over the top or even dangerous, but I assure you this is electrically sound: two single triode 6J5's are equivalent to one dual triode 6SN7, and for the powers, the EL3N's are running as as a 6SN7 and the 6BL7's are in the native slot on their adapter. Furthermore the fact that this is basically dead quiet and a semi-hot transistor leads me to believe this is proper power management for the Elise. And the volume is very loud at only 9:00.
  
 I hope this doesn't discourage any newcomers to think it's necessary to go to such great heights to milk good sound out of the Elise, because it's still leagues ahead of virtually every other amp in it's price range even with stock tubes!
  
 PS - @hypnos1 I'll have to take the fall for being a bad boy today from this


----------



## DecentLevi

Also Moordy or anyone, would you be able to describe any sonic differences between 6BL7 and 6BX7?
  
 And does anyone know if the 6AS7 can work as drivers, in the native slot?


----------



## HOWIE13

I'm gathering all my new tubes and adapters in readiness for my 'big Elise day' but the one tube I have a problem with is the highly thought of TS 5998.
 It's going to cost about £150-200, nearly $ 200-300, to purchase a pair, taking into account taxes etc to the UK.
 Are they really worth it compared to all the other possibilities? Do any other less expensive tubes have similar sound characteristics?
 Also, there seem to be different print colours for these tubes (eg. white and green) and I believe some are called 'Chatham.' Are they all similar?
 Could anyone maybe explain a bit more, in general, about these TS tubes? 
 Thanks for any information and  further opinions.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Also Moordy or anyone, would you be able to describe any sonic differences between 6BL7 and 6BX7?
> 
> And does anyone know if the 6AS7 can work as drivers, in the native slot?


 
 While I'm trying to imagine for the next 4 weeks or so what Elise sounds like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also thought about that possibility.
 I wondered whether using up 5A of Elise's available 6.8A on drivers would leave enough possiblites for power tube rolling.
  
 I wonder if there are any general principles concerning the relationship between the current draw in the driver compared to the power tubes in Elise.
 Also, are there any rules about whether the gain of the drivers needs to be greater than the power tubes, or doesn't it matter? 
 Because of my lack of electronics knowledge, Elise's versatility is raising all sorts of interesting questions for me?


----------



## DecentLevi

Well thought out and and good questions, Howie! I'm sure UT or @hpamdr or Mordy must know these... along with my two questions above


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Well thought out and and good questions, Howie! I'm sure UT or @hpamdr or Mordy must know these... along with my two questions above


 
 Elise is bringing my brain back to life- and she hasn't even arrived yet, LOL!


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> I don't spend all my time with my GF Lily and the girls (some of you might think I'm nut to do otherwise), I have a life away from them usually 1 day a week when I go out with the guy (but Lily and some of the girls are out with us anyway).  Also have a lot of free time, been retired for 2 years, having the girls around just makes my day go by faster (I get bored quickly), and I like variety in wine, woman, and song.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi David,

yeah the cooking part is not only the way to a mans heart Those cooking courses pay for themsleves, are fun and nothing beats a "come on over I'll make us some good Italian" date, especially if you throw in the words borgata, truffles and homemade tiramisu Tubes and vinyl definitely add to the special character and you loose the throw away, everything is interchangeable character that you want to avoid for special occasions. 

Never really got into the wine appreciation that much. Had some friends of mine do somilier courses and they are having a terrible time with "normal" wine, but if you are willing to pay a little more they can point out some real winners that just cost a bit more. Just like to keep my options open to enjoy a good house wine, especially in Italy, Germany, Austria without having to analyze it. Also decent wine is much less expensive here in Europe whereas in the states anything under $10 a bottle is/was? undrinkable for some reason and you need to spend $20+ for something decent. Far from something "good" or interesting if you had somilier training. 

Hard enough if you have worked in Hifi to detach the analyzing don't really need that for wine as much. Tend to not drink that much anymore either, but do like cognac with music and wine or whiskey with company.

Its just when you have cooked a nice meal (we have a fabulous kitchen at work as well), made your office not look like an audio workshop and listen to music on the couch, the attention always wanders to those glowing things that are neat (Elise). And strangely the comments on the white pvc never fail to arrive. So out of pure "professionalism" in the work space I had to spraypaint them. I usually do not care about image that much, except with the oposite sex and in professional settings so it had to be done

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

lord raven said:


> Tonight I listened to some Phil Collins, awesome albums, great music
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


As long as its not the horribly digitally remastered stuff. Some of those just sterilze everything and you completely loose that 70s magic. Sometimes cleaner equates to "operation successful, patient dead". 

Let me know how you liked them. The remasterd albums made me run away from Phil Collins not wanting to go back, but maybe hdtracks has some good stuff.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

decentlevi said:


> So next I went ahead with the following concoction:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Oh Jesus, 

that makes my esthetic sensibilities want to curl up and cry, what have you done to the Elise! Luckily your picture supplied some cleanex

The only way to salvage that is the Berlin method. When there is a jumble of really mismatched architecture together it becomes beautiful again, but only if it is declared art. Maybe put a frame around it, or put it on a pedestal with a little plaque, signing someplace will become essential as well. Yeah you definitely broke enough estetic rules to make this art. Classic black elegance combine with industrial, chines plastic electronics, pvc, asymetry, diy, mad scientist, vintage tubes, potential fire hassard exitement, light show, etc. Hats off that is really avant garde, aproaching maybe even transcending art. 

We will all keep a pic of that around if someone complains about the esthetics of the Elise

Keep up the pioneering.



Cheers 
WB


----------



## DecentLevi

Strange, the thought of appearance never crossed my mind - literally. Guess I'm a true audio addict. I am moderately colorblind though
  
 In any case, the sonic benefits here are grand enough to outweigh any esthetics


----------



## Lord Raven

wb2016 said:


> lord raven said:
> 
> 
> > Tonight I listened to some Phil Collins, awesome albums, great music
> ...


 
 Hi WB,
  
 You are right, sometimes the digital remasters lack the liveliness and the life and soul of the recording. I first listened to Phil Collins on cassettes so it is a definite upgrade for me, I was so happy tonight that I carelessly said "And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, Oh Lord!"  I will dig down and listen to the DSDs tonight, I don't really trust DSD over HDTracks and this is the reason I listened to them first. If you have the opportunity to get these from them, then do so without hesitating. 
  
Cheers
LR


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I'm gathering all my new tubes and adapters in readiness for my 'big Elise day' but the one tube I have a problem with is the highly thought of TS 5998.
> It's going to cost about £150-200, nearly $ 200-300, to purchase a pair, taking into account taxes etc to the UK.
> Are they really worth it compared to all the other possibilities? Do any other less expensive tubes have similar sound characteristics?
> Also, there seem to be different print colours for these tubes (eg. white and green) and I believe some are called 'Chatham.' Are they all similar?
> ...


 

 That will depends on individuals as to whether it's worth buying the TS 5998 at that price. It has the details and punchy bass and does take lift the sonic scales of the frequency spectrum. It does sound energized. It will sound louder as it's gain is much higher than a standard 6AS7. I have not heard a similar sounding tube to it. The 421A is supposed to be the premium version of it. 7236 is probably a close cousin but it too does not sound like it. 7236 has a leaner, tighter bass.
  
 White letterings are the older tubes - 50s. Green ones are the 60s. I have both and they sound similar. The obvious sign of a 5998 is the dimpled plates. Chatham was bought over by Tung Sol and became a division of the Tung Sol Electronics Inc, so it's no surprise some 5998 are Tung Sol as well as Chatham. There's also Chatham 2399 which is also the 5998.
  
 I do love the pair that I have. Bought it new for $239. It is expensive but the GEC 6AS7G is even more expensive, as are the Bendix 6080.


----------



## UntilThen

This is a fascinating LP. Side One contains Ravel: Bolero and Berloz: Royal Hunt and Storm. Side Two is Debussy: Iberia. Toronto Symphony Orchestra. James De Preist.
  
 Reading the sleeve notes is interesting. These are classical masterpieces. So enjoyable I've to listen to it twice.


----------



## Lord Raven

I have the orange lettering, which era are they from? Professor UT  



untilthen said:


> That will depends on individuals as to whether it's worth buying the TS 5998 at that price. It has the details and punchy bass and does take lift the sonic scales of the frequency spectrum. It does sound energized. It will sound louder as it's gain is much higher than a standard 6AS7. I have not heard a similar sounding tube to it. The 421A is supposed to be the premium version of it. 7236 is probably a close cousin but it too does not sound like it. 7236 has a leaner, tighter bass.
> 
> White letterings are the older tubes - 50s. Green ones are the 60s. I have both and they sound similar. The obvious sign of a 5998 is the dimpled plates. Chatham was bought over by Tung Sol and became a division of the Tung Sol Electronics Inc, so it's no surprise some 5998 are Tung Sol as well as Chatham. There's also Chatham 2399 which is also the 5998.
> 
> I do love the pair that I have. Bought it new for $239. It is expensive but the GEC 6AS7G is even more expensive, as are the Bendix 6080.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I have the orange lettering, which era are they from? Professor UT


 

 They must be from the pyramids of Egypt. I have not seen orange letterings before.


----------



## Lord Raven

They're rare  I do not mess with them, only listening to 5998 on Christmas  



untilthen said:


> They must be from the pyramids of Egypt. I have not seen orange letterings before.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> So next I went ahead with the following concoction:


 
  
 I have to wear sunglasses to look at this. Or 2 eye patches.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> And does anyone know if the 6AS7 can work as drivers, in the native slot?


 
 You shouldn't be using the 6AS7 as drivers. Puffmtd mistakenly use the 5998 as drivers once.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> I don't spend all my time with my GF Lily and the girls (some of you might think I'm nut to do otherwise), I have a life away from them usually 1 day a week when I go out with the guy (but Lily and some of the girls are out with us anyway).  Also have a lot of free time, been retired for 2 years, having the girls around just makes my day go by faster (I get bored quickly), and I like variety in wine, woman, and song.
> 
> Usually listening with headphones 4-6 hours a day since I don't want to wake Lily or the girls if they happen to sleep over since I usually get by with 3-4 hours sleep while most of the girls need 7-10.
> 
> ...


 

 David, you have a busy lifestyle. You sure you have time for me when I come to Hawaii?


----------



## WB2016

lord raven said:


> Hi WB,
> 
> You are right, sometimes the digital remasters lack the liveliness and the life and soul of the recording. I first listened to Phil Collins on cassettes so it is a definite upgrade for me, I was so happy tonight that I carelessly said "And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, Oh Lord!"  I will dig down and listen to the DSDs tonight, I don't really trust DSD over HDTracks and this is the reason I listened to them first. If you have the opportunity to get these from them, then do so without hesitating.
> 
> ...



 


Alright might check it out.
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> I have to wear sunglasses to look at this. Or 2 eye patches.



 


It was nice of him to supply the cleanex in the picture, wasn't it For those of us looking at it without shades will make your eyes water no doubt

That is truely amazing and shows what is possible with the Elise. From simple and refined to crazy possibly genius. Strangely I am tempted to try it as well. But then again I know a lot of "audiophiles" into DIY and modding that have gone to that point and there is no return. Either you start your own business like Tim Paravicini or you will start having open crossovers on the floors, MDF cabinets, Point to point wired amps on wood boards, etc. Maybe the Elise keeps it a bit contained, hopefully. However there is also a chance of exiting and having truely sensational systems as well, but the line between genius and disaster is very fluid and requires you to let go of all preconceptions.

Actually funny how we are obsessed about the visual having to play a role in audio, for the purists it means nothing. (Perfectionist is another story) Imagine all the discussion I had with interior decorators and architects about acoustics being bad and they looked at me like "what was wrong with him", and that is socially completely acceptable, most likely the norm, see Beats HPs... If someone tells you he cares nothing about looks only about audio instead he is considered crazy. The primary focus of humans on vision I guess, which is also reflected in the brain. Interesting how partial colorblindness might be compensated for more affinity for sound.

I try to indulge in all the senses, so what do I know, ey. 

WB


----------



## Suuup

This 1626 is special. Forget what I said about great subbass extension in the beginning, I was fooled. The big thing is the midbass hump that gives all songs a certain musicality. I can certainly see why many would like this sound (300B sound). It is something I've been looking for, but haven't been able to find. Before I got a tube amp, this is what I thought tube amps would sound like. Delicious fat sound. 
  
 That said, I wouldn't call this a "high quality" sound. It's not as clear as the 6N7G, it's not as extended, it doesn't do female vocals that well. Sound is kinda congested. Even for all those faults, it's more than worth it for certain songs. This is not a new Messiah of tubes, as I don't believe such a tube exists. For some songs I want the 6N7G, for others I want this 1626. This is FUN.


----------



## connieflyer

Nice turntable up for sale...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-PL-550-Roble-Burl-Veneer-Audiophile-Turntable-Quartz-New-Dust-Cover/361564993839?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36797%26meid%3D89e98d6f4ee2423a88b4dc51129c436b%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D140629882113  UT could use a backup before he wears his out!


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I've had Elise for 7 months now and I'm still very happy with it. I'm almost using it everyday. Now with the addition of the turntable, I'm even more captivated. I must say I'm passed tube rolling now. I'll use a set of tubes for a week now before I make a change.
> 
> I move the turntable and Elise to the lounge yesterday and it sounded very good with the speakers... and subwoofer. It has the subterranean reach to middle earth.
> 
> ...


 
 This is exactly how I would have done  Good luck UT, I am over tube rolling either. Maybe I'll throw in a pair of GEC 6AS7G at some point in future but for now, ELEN and FDD20 is the magic tubes for e


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> This is exactly how I would have done  Good luck UT, I am over tube rolling either. Maybe I'll throw in a pair of GEC 6AS7G at some point in future but for now, ELEN and FDD20 is the magic tubes for e


 
 WOW LR. You have actually been in the Temple of the Great @UntilThen. It must have been a truly life changing experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I too am through with tube rolling - well at least as of today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We may both end up chasing a pair of GECs. Hope we can remain friends ))) You really need to focus on getting a T1 and forget the GECs


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Nice turntable up for sale...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-PL-550-Roble-Burl-Veneer-Audiophile-Turntable-Quartz-New-Dust-Cover/361564993839?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36797%26meid%3D89e98d6f4ee2423a88b4dc51129c436b%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D140629882113  UT could use a backup before he wears his out!


 
 STOP!!! You and @UntilThen are both evil men. I am weak and without any will power. How can the two of you keep dangling such temptations in front of such a mush-brain as me????


----------



## pctazhp

If God had wanted more than 4 tubes playing on the Elise at any given time, he would never have invented the EL3N/5998 combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Happy listening everyone regardless of your tube preferences


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> WOW LR. You have actually been in the Temple of the Great @UntilThen. It must have been a truly life changing experience
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 YES, I almost know every nook and corner of his temple of audio nirvana 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Stay away from tube rolling and keep in touch with music listening. I am chasing T1s and they are rare now, just like the GECs LOL


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Still haven't decided on an amp yet but have narrowed it down to Elise, Airist Audio Heron 5, and Zana Deux.  But even if I get something other than the Elise I'll still visit this thread, love the music recommendations and very friendly posters here.


 
  
 Hmmm. Multiple girls - why not multiple new amps????
  
 Since you are now officially my hero, I do hope you will stick around here regardless of what you decide


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen is the pied piper of Elise)))


----------



## mordy

Hi DL et al,
  
 In calculating which tubes you can use in the Elise without external power, I have learned via Lukasz that the total current draw is what counts - not the current draw from the driver or power sockets separately.
  
 The accepted maximum current draw approved by the manufacturer is 6.8A.
  
 In your configuration you are using 2 EL3N tubes = 1.8A. 2 6BL7 tubes + 3A. 4 CJ5 tubes - cannot find the current draw of these for some reason.
  
 If they use 0.5A each you are within specs: 1.8 + 3 + 2 = 6.8. This is not to say that that there isn't a margin, say up to 7.2A, that is safe - we just don't know, and higher than 6.8A is not recommended by the manufacturer.
  
 As far as looks and aesthetics are concerned it does not matter to me - only the sound counts. Besides, my amp is sitting behind me when I listen to my speakers so I don't have to look at it .....
  
 I do know that in some circles people look down on those that mix tubes and think that we are lunatics. To them I say:
  
 JUST LISTEN!
  
 Personally, I feel that because of my lack of preconceived ideas (and Little Dot modding background + being inspired by the Glenn amp) I stumbled across a hidden sound treasure. I am happy to share it with others, although I know that it is going to be ridiculed by some.
  
 JUST LISTEN!


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Personally, I feel that because of my lack of preconceived ideas (and Little Dot modding background + being inspired by the Glenn amp) I stumbled across a hidden sound treasure. I am happy to share it with others, although I know that it is going to be ridiculed by some.
> 
> JUST LISTEN!


 
  
 I would hope no one would ridicule you for your personal choices. I also hope you do not mean to suggest that those who do not follow your path (for whatever reason) are somehow plagued by "preconceived ideas" that you seem to be miraculously free of.
  
 JUST LISTEN? I do to my preferred combos with great enjoyment.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> That will depends on individuals as to whether it's worth buying the TS 5998 at that price. It has the details and punchy bass and does take lift the sonic scales of the frequency spectrum. It does sound energized. It will sound louder as it's gain is much higher than a standard 6AS7. I have not heard a similar sounding tube to it. The 421A is supposed to be the premium version of it. 7236 is probably a close cousin but it too does not sound like it. 7236 has a leaner, tighter bass.
> 
> White letterings are the older tubes - 50s. Green ones are the 60s. I have both and they sound similar. The obvious sign of a 5998 is the dimpled plates. Chatham was bought over by Tung Sol and became a division of the Tung Sol Electronics Inc, so it's no surprise some 5998 are Tung Sol as well as Chatham. There's also Chatham 2399 which is also the 5998.
> 
> I do love the pair that I have. Bought it new for $239. It is expensive but the GEC 6AS7G is even more expensive, as are the Bendix 6080.


 
 Thanks, UntilThen.
  
 That's given me useful background info to be thinking about. I prefer a clearer, cleaner sound with tight bass so 7236 may be better.
 I'll probably end up getting the 5998's and 7236's eventually, anyway.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Not implying anything whatsoever about all the esteemed contributors to this forum. Personally I am sure that I am full of preconceived ideas about many things, but not regarding electronics, for lack of knowledge....
  
 I can well understand that somebody like you and others are perfectly satisfied with what you have and don't feel any need for change, especially since it may involve getting into areas of fiddling with things that a person may not be comfortable with.
  
 This is how I feel about turntables. The sound from vinyl is said to be superior to digital. It sounds very enticing, and I happen to have acquired two high end turntables (Oracle Alexandria MKII and Thorens TD 115 MKII)  but I find them too difficult for me to set up. The turntables I have are from the 80's and probably haven't been used for a very long time and they have deteriorated by sitting too long. Need readjusting the springs, new belts, cables, cartridge alignment etc etc. In addition, my eyes are not as keen as in the past, and it becomes a challenge to work with very small parts. At the present time I have no plans of getting into turntables although I have some 150LPs and a few 78s.
  
 Without trying my new adapter, I would have been very happy with the Elise with four or six tubes (with the dual adapters). I was intrigued about what Glenn wrote about using multiple power tubes in his amp, and this is how I got the idea of the multiple adapter for the Elise. Having tried the 6x adapter I felt that it added to my listening pleasure, and I wanted to share this experience.
  
 The main thing is to find what each person is happy with, and the wonderful Elise amp has the potential to satisfy a multitude of different tastes in sound no matter which tubes and configurations you use.


----------



## UntilThen

Enjoy your tube rolling. Just go easy on the sockets. They'll loosen over time.
  
 There has been an overemphasis on tubes. Source and headphones changes will bring about a more dramatic shift. Vinyl is not superior to digital. I will not touch that debate with a 10 foot pole. Coloration that sounds better to my ears that's what I 'd say. Not even going to think about cartridge rolling.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> STOP!!! You and @UntilThen are both evil men. I am weak and without any will power. How can the two of you keep dangling such temptations in front of such a mush-brain as me????


 

 This is new and cheap. US$90. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It looks retro and nice. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-PL-117D-PL117D-PL-117D-NEW-Replacement-Dust-Cover-for-Turntable/181959126057?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36465%26meid%3D3e2800405d3e4811b1cd4440074f06c6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D361564993839
  
*OK this is just for the cover. *




  
 Watch this Youtube review of the same model.


----------



## Lord Raven

Back to back SADE tonight  Tubes of choice are EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G, I am missing nothing. WOW, the details and mid bass punch is awesome, listening to sweet vocals of Sade is best way to end your day. HD600 is staying


----------



## UntilThen

I love Sade. Would love an LP version


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I love Sade. Would love an LP version


 
 I love her anyway, digital or analogue


----------



## Lord Raven

Hey guys,
  
 I am thinking cable. What cable should I upgrade my HD600 with 
  
 Thanks
 LR


----------



## DavidA

lord raven said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am thinking cable. What cable should I upgrade my HD600 with
> 
> ...


 
 I would pass on cable "upgrades" unless your existing is damaged or too long or short.   I think it might be a better use of funds to get the T1 that you have been searching for.  But if you really want a different cable I would recommend either Forza or Double Helix, had these two cables, they are like pieces of art with superb craftsmanship, they are not cheap ($400-500).
  
 Quote:


pctazhp said:


> Hmmm. Multiple girls - why not multiple new amps????
> Since you are now officially my hero, I do hope you will stick around here regardless of what you decide


 
 I would love multiple new amps but funds are being taken away from wine, woman and food 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





untilthen said:


> I love Sade. Would love an LP version


 
 That's why I love this thread, the music recommended is so good, many times its something that I haven't listened to in many years.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Was rummaging through my garage and found an old box with what I thought long lost: A pair of Audio Technica AT-705 Electret Condenser headphones. Excellent condition.
  





  
 These headphones connect via the adaptor box directly to the speaker terminals on your amp - needs something like a 100W! Haven't used these in decades - I think I bought these in 1974.
  
 I could never get good sound from then, probably because I did not have an amplifier powerful enough. Those were the days when the amps just started to get more powerful.
  
 Does anybody have any experience or knowledge of these?


----------



## pctazhp

*BREAKING NEWS:  Scottsdale Man Discovers Holy Grail of Elise Amp Tube Combos*
  
 Late this afternoon Scottsdale resident, Mr. pctazhp, told a hastily scheduled news conference that he had finally discovered the ultimate Elise Amp tube combo. Before disclosing the heretofore secret combo, he explained that his discovery was simply a return to basics and through deep meditation he had been able to divine the combo God and Feliks Audio intended in designing the Elise Amp. Then, to the collective astonishment of all present, he disclosed that the combination was TS6SN7-GTB drivers coupled with a pair of TS5998 power tubes.
  
 Mr. pctazhp explained that the total heater current draw is only 6 amps, and that the amp is almost cool to the touch. He told reporters that, of course, anyone is free to search for better, but they should not return to him later and complain about all the time and money they had wasted in such a futile effort. He observed that in the meantime if anyone wanted better they should go out to a live, acoustic performance.
  
 When pressed hard by the reporters, Mr. pctazhp did concede that he had not heard every possible combination, and that his discovery took into consideration cost effectiveness and the law of diminishing returns.
  
 Toward the end of the new conference, a reporter asked Mr. pctazhp why he had chosen such a stupid user name for HeadFi. He declined to answer the question. When asked by that same reporter why he had said earlier in the day he was finished with tube rolling, he ran off the stage and refused to answer any more questions. He was later spotted listening to EL3N/TS5998


----------



## DavidA

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Was rummaging through my garage and found an old box with what I thought long lost: A pair of Audio Technica AT-705 Electret Condenser headphones. Excellent condition.
> 
> ...


 

 Those remind me of my Stax SRD-34 (1982-3), didn't need a 100w amp tho, even a NAD-3020 work wonders.
  
@pctazhp, get news story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you have restored my faith in "Keep it simple"


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> *BREAKING NEWS:  Scottsdale Man Discovers Holy Grail of Elise Amp Tube Combos*
> 
> Late this afternoon Scottsdale resident, Mr. pctazhp, told a hastily scheduled news conference that he had finally discovered the ultimate Elise Amp tube combo. Before disclosing the heretofore secret combo, he explained that his discovery was simply a return to basics and through deep meditation he had been able to divine the combo God and Feliks Audio intended in designing the Elise Amp. Then, to the collective astonishment of all present, he disclosed that the combination was TS6SN7-GTB drivers coupled with a pair of TS5998 power tubes.
> 
> ...




LOL  Poor reporters. Time to try this combination, luckily I have both tubes haha


----------



## Lord Raven

davida said:


> I would pass on cable "upgrades" unless your existing is damaged or too long or short.   I think it might be a better use of funds to get the T1 that you have been searching for.  But if you really want a different cable I would recommend either Forza or Double Helix, had these two cables, they are like pieces of art with superb craftsmanship, they are not cheap ($400-500).
> 
> Quote:
> I would love multiple new amps but funds are being taken away from wine, woman and food
> That's why I love this thread, the music recommended is so good, many times its something that I haven't listened to in many years.




Thanks David, I'll stick to hunting T1 while listening to HD 600


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> LOL  Poor reporters. Time to try this combination, luckily I have both tubes haha


 
 If you don't like it, Mr. pctazhp has left town and is hiding in seclusion


----------



## UntilThen

Down under is using these tubes now. They are like caviars.


----------



## connieflyer

Oh sure, just bought 5998's now I find I need ecc31, will this train ever stop at a free station? You just knew I had to check.....http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC31-Mullard-Philips-Miniwatt-dc-1029-1-1MRA-made-in-Gt-Britian-289001-2-/191823472180?hash=item2ca991e634:g:yV0AAOSwh-1W4WEX  nice, too nice, too expensive, well, if I don't eat next month maybe!


----------



## UntilThen

CF, you don't need the ECC31. Too expensive. I paid $200 for my NOS pair at the height of tube frenzy. This is one of the rare times I'm using it.


----------



## connieflyer

Yeah, I thought about not eating for a month, and decided three weeks in I would be too weak to listen to the Elise, so figured, I would skip them. I was just joking, although I could stand to lose a few pounds............


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Was rummaging through my garage and found an old box with what I thought long lost: A pair of Audio Technica AT-705 Electret Condenser headphones. Excellent condition.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This looks interesting. Fire it up and tell us how it sounds. There's an impression here. post #14


----------



## Suuup

connieflyer said:


> Yeah, I thought about not eating for a month, and decided three weeks in I would be too weak to listen to the Elise, so figured, I would skip them. I was just joking, although I could stand to lose a few pounds............



ECC31 is a marvel of a tube, really good. Has a nice fat smooth sound. They can be had for about 50$ a piece if you're patient.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Connected the AT-705 headphones to my B speaker terminals. Very uncomfortable, pinching my left ear. According to the instructions you must "squelch the amplifier volume to minimum level" before turning it on.
  
 Channel imbalance - left is lower volume. The sound only comes on at very high levels on the amp. It sounded as lousy as I remembered it - thin, metallic. It actually sounded better without the Elise in the circuit but still very poor. No wonder why it was forgotten all these years.
  
 Maybe with different equipment it will sound better...
  
 Just to compare I tried my Monk VE earphones. According to the manufacturer they benefit from1500(!) hours burn in. I keep them plugged into my integrated amp at all times - should just take a year or two to accumulate 1500 hours lol. In any case, they sound excellent.  A fantastic buy since they are only around $8 shipped.
  
 pct, did you bring your pair of Monks along when you went into hiding? Speaking about your avatar, I am trying to fix up My Tandberg 41 transistor radio:


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Mordy, too bad the AT-705 didn't work out. It looked promising.
  
 I've decided to run my economical tubes while resting my better ones. So here's Visseaux 6A6 with Svetlana 6N13S. A bright driver paired with a warm power tube. Just right !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How much? Visseaux 6A6 = $28.32 a pair. Svetlana 6N13S = stock tubes. White marshmallow adapters = $38.46 a pair.
  
 Playing the Beatles Abbey Road 'Here Comes the Sun'.


----------



## oshipao

Interesting looking package received at work today...


----------



## DecentLevi

oshipao said:


> Interesting looking package received at work today...


  

 looking forward to your impressions


----------



## UntilThen

It's a Feliks Audio turntable.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> It's a Feliks Audio turntable.




What! That would have been quite the surprise though 



decentlevi said:


> looking forward to your impressions




I will let you know as soon as I have aquainted muself with her.


----------



## HOWIE13

oshipao said:


> Interesting looking package received at work today...


 
 Great to see she safely arrived!
 Would love to know your Invoice number, to give me some idea how long mine will take to come.


----------



## tommo21

howie13 said:


> Great to see she safely arrived!
> Would love to know your Invoice number, to give me some idea how long mine will take to come.


 
 How long does it usually take?
  
 I've asked for a quote on shipping price and expected build time, but haven't heard back from them yet. I sent them the enquiry on thursday last week.
  
 Since I live in Norway I expect the VAT to be deducted from the price on the Elise or don't they do that?


----------



## HOWIE13

tommo21 said:


> How long does it usually take?
> 
> I've asked for a quote on shipping price and expected build time, but haven't heard back from them yet. I sent them the enquiry on thursday last week.
> 
> Since I live in Norway I expect the VAT to be deducted from the price on the Elise or don't they do that?


 
 Hi Tommo21
 Nice to hear from you again, on a different thread!
 Well I believe it's usually about 6-8 weeks, but there was a delay earlier in the year because of chassis sourcing problems and the wait was longer.
 I think they are 'on track' now. I ordered 3 weeks ago.
 I don't know about your own VAT as the UK is still (just) in the EU and I will pay the Polish VAT anyway, instead of the UK tax.
 I paid $40 for shipping. I would imagine mainland Scotland would be similar to Norway.


----------



## tommo21

howie13 said:


> Hi Tommo21
> Nice to hear from you again, on a different thread!
> Well I believe it's usually about 6-8 weeks, but there was a delay earlier in the year because of chassis sourcing problems and the wait was longer.
> I think they are 'on track' now, I ordered 3 weeks ago.


 
 Yeah...I couldn't resist this amp any longer. I'll order as soon as my taxreturns is in my bankaccount in a couple of weeks time. Would have ordered sooner, but got a car repair this week that's gonna set me back $1250.
  
 I've gone through the threads with Lyr 2, Icon audio HP-8 MkII and the Elise trying to decide, but in the end I feel the Elise seems too good not to choose based on all the feedback in this thread.


----------



## Suuup

tommo21 said:


> Yeah...I couldn't resist this amp any longer. I'll order as soon as my taxreturns is in my bankaccount in a couple of weeks time. Would have ordered sooner, but got a car repair this week that's gonna set me back $1250.
> 
> I've gone through the threads with Lyr 2, Icon audio HP-8 MkII and the Elise trying to decide, but in the end I feel the Elise seems too good not to choose based on all the feedback in this thread.


 
 What headphone do you plan on using with the Elise?


----------



## tommo21

suuup said:


> What headphone do you plan on using with the Elise?


 
 I'm gonna use the T90 mainly at first, but do consider T1 v2 at a later stage. Also dreaming of the Sennheiser HD800S. Might get that if I decide to sell of my 2 or 3 pairs of my expensive Hifi-Speakers


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome to Elise thread @tommo21 . Good choice. All those headphones will pair very well with Elise.


----------



## supersonic395

tommo21 said:


> I'm gonna use the T90 mainly at first, but do consider T1 v2 at a later stage. Also dreaming of the Sennheiser HD800S. Might get that if I decide to sell of my 2 or 3 pairs of my expensive Hifi-Speakers




I use the T1.2, it pairs very well


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ha))) I haven't quite reached that 1500 mark on the Monks yet. I can't believe you remember I own a pair )))
  
 Good luck with your Tandberg. I'm very envious of you that you had the good sense to hold on to it. My Motorola sat next to my bed for years. I was mesmerized by it. It was only AM, but in those days it didn't matter because all I cared about was Top 40, and the only thing on FM was classical. Keep us informed on the Tandberg )))


----------



## pctazhp

tommo21 said:


> I'm gonna use the T90 mainly at first, but do consider T1 v2 at a later stage. Also dreaming of the Sennheiser HD800S. Might get that if I decide to sell of my 2 or 3 pairs of my expensive Hifi-Speakers


 
  
 Welcome))) You have made the RIGHT decision)))
  
 I have used both the T1 V2 and the HD800S extensively with the Elise. They are both great matches. It comes down to personal preference. I wish I could own both, but there is that pesky thing called "budget" (((
  
 I'd like to put in a plug for Jan Meier in Germany. He is an authorized dealer for both Sennheiser and Beyer. I got my HD800S from him and I highly recommend him: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hello Mordy, too bad the AT-705 didn't work out. It looked promising.
> 
> I've decided to run my economical tubes while resting my better ones. So here's Visseaux 6A6 with Svetlana 6N13S. A bright driver paired with a warm power tube. Just right !!!
> 
> ...


 
 UT:  My TS 6SN7-GTBs were $37.50 for the pair including shipping. The 5998s aren't exactly budget tubes, but the 6SN7/5998 is very, very good. It possibly may become my favorite.
  
 As I have said before, "Here Comes the Sun" is one of my all time favorites )))


----------



## UntilThen

Didn't you buy the Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top ? Lovely tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Didn't you buy the Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top ? Lovely tubes.


 
 Yes, but haven't tried them in a long time. Remember, I gave up tube rolling )))


----------



## Lord Raven

Congratulations Howie 13, you're up for a surprise  What number did you get? 

Guys I'm letting go of an extra brand new pair of ECC31, if anyone wants a great value deal, I'm just a PM away.


----------



## HOWIE13

lord raven said:


> Congratulations Howie 13, you're up for a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, Lord Raven.
 I'm #59 so a bit of a wait yet, but reading this thread makes me feel I'm already hearing Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Is oshipao still setting up his turntable?


----------



## Suuup

tommo21 said:


> I'm gonna use the T90 mainly at first, but do consider T1 v2 at a later stage. Also dreaming of the Sennheiser HD800S. Might get that if I decide to sell of my 2 or 3 pairs of my expensive Hifi-Speakers


 
 I've tried both the T1 v1 and T1 v2 on my Elise, and I have to say, I greatly prefer the T1 v1. Tried a Sennheiser HD800 on the Elise as well -- it's about as good as T1 v1 on my Elise, but please keep in mind that this was under meet condition, i.e. there was a lot of ambient noise in the room.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Is oshipao still setting up his turntable?




Indeed ☺️

Now it's up and running. 



Sturdy build quality overall, think she will sound amazing once I have had a couple of more hours on her 

One thing I did notice however is that the volume pot does seem a little off center and makes a screeching sound (as it rubs against the chassis). Do not know if this is something one could fix on his own?


----------



## oshipao

howie13 said:


> Great to see she safely arrived!
> Would love to know your Invoice number, to give me some idea how long mine will take to come.




Hi Howie,

My Elise was no 0058.


----------



## HOWIE13

oshipao said:


> Hi Howie,
> 
> My Elise was no 0058.


 
 That's good news-I should be next to ship out if they are taken in order.
 Enjoy!


----------



## connieflyer

I had the T1 V1 for a few weeks before the left driver started acting up, bought a new pair of Senn 800 and love them. If the Beyers  would not have had a problem, or I could have exchanged them, I would probably still have them.  But the outfit that amazon shipped them through would not allow amazon to replace only refund, so opted for refund.  Got the 800 instead, have had zero problems with them and think very highly of them. Previously I had the 650, and 700 as well, both sounded quite good with the Elise, but of the two the 700 was much better, sound stage and overall clarity across bandwidth.  Prefer the 800, the larger sound stage is welcome for me.  Resolution is better as well.


----------



## mordy

Hi o,
  
 Email Lukasz at Feliks Audio - I am sure that all you need is a very minor adjustment and he will tell you how to do it.


----------



## oshipao

mordy said:


> Hi o,
> 
> Email Lukasz at Feliks Audio - I am sure that all you need is a very minor adjustment and he will tell you how to do it.




Done. Let's hope it's a quick fix.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen I'm listening to the Sylvania 6SN7-GTB Chrome Tops with the 5998. Smoother sound but maybe not quite as much detail. Very nice sound. I paid $45 for my pair, but here is a pair on Ebat for $165. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVANIA-6SN7-GTA-6SN7-6SN7GT-CHROME-TOP-MATCHED-PAIR-BLACK-PLATE-Tubes-1954-/291497564203?hash=item43de9bd82b:g7AAAOSwjVVVhqkT
  
 I can't tell the difference, but maybe they are better than my pair??


----------



## pctazhp

I probably should clarify a little my recent posts starting with the "News Conference".
  
 First, my point is not to in anyway denigrate the multiple 6BL7 type power configurations. I wouldn't swear on a stack of old The Absolute Sound volumes (which I wish I still had, but don't) that I would never try it if I wake up some morning, am suddenly 40 years old again, and have the energy and patient to try.
  
 I'm merely trying to suggest that there are a number of 4-tube combinations that work very well with the Elise and with some perseverance can be acquired for under $300. I understand that the multiple power driver approach may even be less expensive, but does require external power.
  
 I read on the HD800 S and Classic threads a lot of talk about multi thousand dollar amps and question if they really are superior to the Elise. Maybe some day I'll attend my first CanJam and find out for myself. Or maybe Glenn will send me one of his new EL3N amps to audition. Hint, hint . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding @2359glenn. I'm sure you won't even be able to keep up with your paying customers ))))


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 The same question has gone through my mind - if you spend thousands on a tube preamp, what more do you get compared to the Elise?
  
 I remember somebody asking Lukasz if the Feliks 2A3 amp ($1900) sounds better than the Elise. The answer was no; it just has the capability to drive speakers.
  
PSE 2A3 Dual Mono


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen I'm listening to the Sylvania 6SN7-GTB Chrome Tops with the 5998. Smoother sound but maybe not quite as much detail. Very nice sound. I paid $45 for my pair, but here is a pair on Ebat for $165. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVANIA-6SN7-GTA-6SN7-6SN7GT-CHROME-TOP-MATCHED-PAIR-BLACK-PLATE-Tubes-1954-/291497564203?hash=item43de9bd82b:g7AAAOSwjVVVhqkT
> 
> I can't tell the difference, but maybe they are better than my pair??


 
  
 GTA / GT are more expensive than GTB and are highly regarded. The pair you link are the 3 holes black plates. Sylvania 6SN7W is the most expensive of the lot and most desirable. There is also Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates which commands a crazy price but is sought after.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1match-pair-6SN7GT-TUNG-SOL-ROUND-PLATE-BLACK-GLASS-1265001-2-/191773047948?hash=item2ca6907c8c:g:spsAAOSwKtlWh74a
  
 This thread will tell you more about the different types of 6SN7:-
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 I prefer C3G, 6N7G, ECC31, FDD20 and EL3N sound but it's good to have a mix.
  
 HD800S have a fuller sound and a more pronounced bass compared to HD800. The S will pair better with brighter, leaner sounding tubes. Some 6SN7, C3G, 6N7G, 7N7 for drivers and 7236, 5998 and 6080 for powers. However, it will depend on the other gear in the chain, individual preference and the music you're listening to. Mixing brighter drivers with warmer power tubes and vice versa will also give the desired results. 
  
 I haven't tried the T1 G2 but I love the T1 G1 as it is. Love the clear treble and tight controlled bass with my preferred choice of tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Indeed ☺️
> 
> Now it's up and running.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats and hope it's worth giving up the Crack for it. Hope you get the volume pot sorted out soon. Mine is as smooth as butter.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Congrats and hope it's worth giving up the Crack for it. Hope you get the volume pot sorted out soon. Mine is as smooth as butter.




Thanks UT!

I am sure it will be worth it. Yes, that pot needs some correction. Now some Cohen before bed. Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Thanks UT!
> 
> I am sure it will be worth it. Yes, that pot needs some correction. Now some Cohen before bed. Cheers!


 
 Leonard Cohen? You're my man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Leonard was made for Elise.... perhaps it's the other way round.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Leonard Cohen? You're my man.
> 
> Leonard was made for Elise.... perhaps it's the other way round. :etysmile:




 Either way will do. Love that tune! Best live show I have seen was by this great man.


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Welcome))) You have made the RIGHT decision)))
> 
> I have used both the T1 V2 and the HD800S extensively with the Elise. They are both great matches. It comes down to personal preference. I wish I could own both, but there is that pesky thing called "budget" (((
> 
> I'd like to put in a plug for Jan Meier in Germany. He is an authorized dealer for both Sennheiser and Beyer. I got my HD800S from him and I highly recommend him: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/



 


Hi,

how much were the T1s V1 or V2 at Jan Meier, I am sure he cannot post prices online because of stupid Sennheiser pricing policies, especially in Germany. Heard good things about him as well. If you cannot say publically PM me. Thanks
WB


----------



## pctazhp

wb2016 said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome))) You have made the RIGHT decision)))
> ...


 
 I didn't get the T1 from Jan so I don't know his price. I paid $1390 for the HD800S, and that included shipping. At the time, the S wasn't available anywhere here in the US, and the waiting list price was $1699, so I think his price on the T1 would be pretty competitive.
  
 Edit:  I guess I should point out that my price may have been so good because I didn't have to pay VAT. Anyway, just email him and ask. He's very responsive and easy to work with.


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well a good 2A3 will objectively beat any of the tubes we can run on an Elise, however running some combos, especially with EL3N comes close, who knows maybe beat it, I have not heard them all, but I have heard a lot of amps and hp amps. I have no idea how the circuitry is of the 2a3 amp is, but running more power well is usually more expensive. You will never complain about the prices of GECs if you enter the world of 2a3, 845 and 300B. They have something but you really really pay for it. In the end objectively better and enjoying do not necessarily equate. 
2A3 is also "bad" in that it super weak for speakers but it is considered the tube without weaknesses... well apart from power

It's all a matter of diminishing returns. The Elise punches well into the $1000-2000 value category, but there are other amps, especially teasing out balanced that will have objective benefits, especially in noise,resolution and imaging, but usually the rule of thumb 10% more through a doubling of price (dimishing returns) starts to hold. However when you have 300Bs that can cost over 2000€ a matched pair, sometimes close to 6000 for WE TOTL NOS you want your amp to bring out the absolute utmost. If audio is the only thing that counts for you or you have unlimited resources you can start to chase the elusive dragon or enjoy the music.

 As with any install you should look at the whole system and not have any huge holes anywhere. So if you are running HD650 is it worth getting a 5000€ amp, likely not, the Elise is all you will ever need. For the HD800 because they are analysis monsters you could reasonably spend more, or a HEK, they can also tease out something with balanced amp, but its a bit overrated imho and you soon start going into a 10K++ system to get the full benefits.
Its more important to start looking where the weak points are in your chain and if everything is synergistic and balanced/tuned well. So say if you are looking for HPs 1000-2000, DAC 1000-2000, Amp 1000-2000, tubes 100-500, energy & cables 100-1000, streamer, server or pc 400-2000 (of Hifi value) putting in the Elise in such a overall chain makes sense. If you are going to go for the maximum out of a HD800 and want tubes you are going to start looking at real money very soon. The rule of diminishing returns to objective quality applies, which is again not equal to enjoyment. 

To save money in hifi best to spend as much as you will be able to afford on an item and not upgrade imo. Buying, selling and upgrading is where most of the money gets killed. You want about a $3-5000 hifi value (not equal to actual money spent but what a retail good standard in that category would cost) chain then the Elise is a very good choice that will free you from upgrading in that category and is "end of the road" for most. Also hp like speakers will have the most effect on sound but will be limited on what is in front of it.

So super long answer, yeah more money can give you better, but not in isolation and will not equate to listening hapiness. A lot of times more money just adds to more obsessions. How did Biggie put it so perfectly "Mo Money Mo Problems"

Now if someone just happened to gift me that 2a3 amp I would however not say no
Cheers
WB


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 Nice write up - thanks.
  
_"Buying, selling and upgrading is where most of the money gets killed."  _
  
 Does this refer to people who listen to the equipment instead of listening to the music? Audiophilia Nervosa?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> GTA / GT are more expensive than GTB and are highly regarded. The pair you link are the 3 holes black plates. Sylvania 6SN7W is the most expensive of the lot and most desirable. There is also Tung Sol 6SN7GT black round plates which commands a crazy price but is sought after.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1match-pair-6SN7GT-TUNG-SOL-ROUND-PLATE-BLACK-GLASS-1265001-2-/191773047948?hash=item2ca6907c8c:g:spsAAOSwKtlWh74a
> 
> ...


 
 Got it. I hadn't paid much attention to the difference between GTA/GT and GTB. All I can say is that the more I listen to the TS6SN7-GTB/5998 combo, the more I'm loving it. Definitely deserved a news conference )))
  
 Edit:  Interesting. The guy who started that thread claims that with the TS6SN7 there is no difference between GTA and GTB:
  
_“But here's an inside tip - Tungsol late 50's and early 60's 6SN7GTB are exactly the same as the WGT and WGTA, except they have a black base - and nobody wants GTB's, so they usually go cheap. They are exactly the same tube, Tungsol simply relabelled WGT's as GTB's to fill GTB orders. I know this, I've had a bulk factory box that had tubes with the exact same date and batch codes - but were labelled either WGT, GTB, WGTA, or even just GT. All identical and come from the same production run. If you see some Tungsol GTB's, and CBS/Hytron 6SN7GT's, grab some, they are still an excellent value.”_
  
 There's a recent post in that thread that calls into question that guy's integrity.


----------



## JazzVinyl

5998's and FDD20's remain a fav combo in this amp for me. Too bad no 12v driver heat option in Elise, but the meager external 12v supply needed to externally heat FDD20 should be within everyones capability...even "Frady-Cat" pct 

Next to FDD20...I would pair Ken-Rad VT231's with 5998.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> 5998's and FDD20's remain a fav combo in this amp for me. Too bad no 12v driver heat option in Elise, but the meager external 12v supply needed to externally heat FDD20 should be within everyones capability...even "Frady-Cat" pct
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Frady-Cat (whatever that means) already has two pair of FDD20s (Röhre RVC FDD20 and Philips MiniWatt FDD20 ) and a 6SN7 wired adapter hooked up to 12V power supply.
  
 Edit:  I pull it out whenever I want to impress my guests:


----------



## UntilThen

I did like the Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears but I have only one so it's used in the DV336se.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I did like the Tung Sol 6SN7GT mouse ears but I have only one so it's used in the DV336se.




I have one...in a 12v version 

Should buy a DV...


----------



## UntilThen

Red balls of fire. Even the cable is red !!! I am lazy to use the 12V but it does get the occasional 'roll'


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Red balls of fire. Even the cable is red !!! I am lazy to use the 12V but it does get the occasional 'roll'




Hear ya.

A great improvement to Elise would have been a beefier transformer and a 12v driver heat option.

You can get some great 12v tubes for cheap, because so few amp used them.....


----------



## UntilThen

wb2016 said:


> Now if someone just happened to gift me that 2a3 amp I would however not say no
> Cheers
> WB


 
  
 If you buy me a DNA Stratus, I wouldn't say no.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> A great improvement to Elise would have been a beefier transformer and a 12v driver heat option.


 
  
 I would like to see that in an Elise Mk2 because these Blues Brothers looks real cool.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hear ya.
> 
> A great improvement to Elise would have been a beefier transformer and a 12v driver heat option.


 
  
 For the life of me, I cannot understand why Feliks Audio didn't design it with 20 to 30 sockets that could accommodate every tube that has even been invented !!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> For the life of me, I cannot understand why Feliks Audio didn't design it with 20 to 30 sockets that could accommodate every tube that has even been invented !!!!




Not really very logical, pct. 

A beefier transformer and 12v driver option would be a great improvement to an already grand design.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Not really very logical, pct.
> 
> A beefier transformer and 12v driver option would be a great improvement to an already grand design.


 
 Oh Rats!!! BUSTED !!!  Logic never was one of my strong suits (((


----------



## UntilThen

Revisiting some of my favorite combos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 2031.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Oh Rats!!! BUSTED !!!  Logic never was one of my strong suits (((




Your tellin' ME, brother!!!! Just look at any of your "fearsome electricity" posts


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Revisiting some of my favorite combos.   2031.




Love 2031, still, too


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Love 2031, still, too


 
  
 Ahead of it's time. Supposed to be for the year 2031. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks to @hypnos1
  
 I've to train my toe to switch on the 12V.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ahead of it's time. Supposed to be for the year 2031.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You saw the end of my toe in the picture??? ))))


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Your tellin' ME, brother!!!! Just look at any of your "fearsome electricity" posts


 
 Tell it to the press. I'm sending the reporters your way!!!


----------



## geetarman49

oshipao said:


> Hi Howie,
> 
> My Elise was no 0058.


 

 seriously??   iirc, my invoice was numero 55 & i've heard sfa from lukasz ...


----------



## DecentLevi

Congrats guys, the collective enthusiasm from new (and old alike) Eliser's has thrust our thread to #2 on Head-Fi again! 
 It's an untouchable jewel of an amp for it's price range.
 I'll be bringing mine to SF Can Jam in July, and I'll also compare it to the Zana Deux and Cavalli's new Liquid Tungsten; as well as compare the HEX to HD 800S to HD 650's on it


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Congratulations Howie 13, you're up for a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 anyone searching for ecc31, here's your chance from a genuinely good guy & reliable head-fier.  if i didn't already have a set ...


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> seriously??   iirc, my invoice was numero 55 & i've heard sfa from lukasz ...




The email invoice number has no relation to the amp serial number....

Suspect all is well...


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Congrats guys, the collective enthusiasm from new (and old alike) Eliser's has thrust our thread to #2 on Head-Fi again!
> It's an antouchable jewel of an amp for it's price range.
> I'll be bringing mine to SF Can Jam in July, and I'll also compare it to the Zana Deux and Cavalli's new Liquid Tungsten; as well as compare the HEX to HD 800S to HD 650's on it


 

 Can you compare it to the La Figaro 339 if one is available.


----------



## DecentLevi

I doubt a 339 would be present, but would check it out if so.
  
 I'm guessing the ECC31's would be a good upgrade to standard 6SN7 drivers. But how would you say they would pair with my favorite powers (EL3N + 6BL7)? 
  
 And why do you prefer the ECC31 with FDD20's? Are they not 'bright' enough on their own? Just wanting to know their overall sound signature, thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> I doubt a 339 would be present, but would check it out if so.
> 
> I'm guessing the ECC31's would be a good upgrade to standard 6SN7 drivers. But how would you say they would pair with my favorite powers (EL3N + 6BL7)?
> 
> And why do you prefer the ECC31 with FDD20's? Are they not 'bright' enough on their own? Just wanting to know their overall sound signature, thanks!


 

 I don't know if ECC31 will pair well with that combo. When I tried it as drivers with quad EL3N as powers, I saw a flash of light go up the ECC31 tubes and no sound. Thereafter I won't try it again. I don't know why it does that. It's fine with other power tubes.
  
 ECC31 isn't bright. It's lush, smooth and quite a pronounced bass. FDD20 by comparison sounded leaner and cleaner and a clearer treble.. Those 2 together does sound good.


----------



## mordy

Since there has been some talk about 12V tubes, I want to report on an experiment that for me was a dead end.
  
 Power tubes: 4 x EL3N + 2 x 6BL7. This works very well with a lively up front balanced presentation. Now I tried (with external power in addition to the external power for the power tubes) to use two 12SN7 tubes as driver tubes. I used a 20V  2.5A power adapter (maybe from an old office machine (?) and a 2.5A voltage regulator set at 12.7V (could only adjust 12.5 or 12.7V - anyhow, 10% variation is considered within the specs for tubes)
  
 A lot of hum, low gain, and distortion.
  
 Tried a cousin of the 12SN7 - the 12SL7. Same problems - hum, low gain, distortion.
  
 It is possible that different power tubes would bring different results, but in this configuration I had no luck using 12V tubes.
  
 I think that I tried the 20/31 with multiple power tubes, and that resulted in hum as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

It is my understanding from prior research of which several sources agreed that there is 0 advantage of 12SN7 vs. 6SN7. They are configured identically with the only difference being double the heat current, so I concur that as failed experiment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Well I just thought post here before listing, that I'll be getting rid of a bunch of tubes, let me know if anyone wants to make an offer:

2x FDD20 with adapters and P/S
2x GE 6AS7GA
4 assorted 6J5 tubes (they are exquisite as "quad drivers", but are extras)
6x 7193, AKA 2C22 with one 7193 to 6SN7 adapter
2x C3G with pristine gold plated adapters


----------



## Liu Junyuan

decentlevi said:


> Congrats guys, the collective enthusiasm from new (and old alike) Eliser's has thrust our thread to #2 on Head-Fi again!
> It's an untouchable jewel of an amp for it's price range.
> I'll be bringing mine to SF Can Jam in July, and I'll also compare it to the Zana Deux and Cavalli's new Liquid Tungsten; as well as compare the HEX to HD 800S to HD 650's on it




Interesting to hear your comparisons with the Elise. I think you'll be surprised at how well things hold up. July is awhile away. 

When you compare to the Zana Deux, do remember to ask which version is there, as there are essentially four different ones out in the wild; its been in production for a long time now, and changes overt that time have significantly altered its characteristics. The owner of the amp would most likely be able to explain, or I can give you some pointers what to look for.


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> The email invoice number has no relation to the amp serial number....
> 
> Suspect all is well...


 

 yep, i'm aware of that ... but otoh, oshipao was responding to howie's query about invoice #, so ... ?
  
 @oshipao ---- was that your invoice # or just your amp sn?


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> yep, i'm aware of that ... but otoh, oshipao was responding to howie's query about invoice #, so ... ?
> 
> @oshipao ---- was that your invoice # or just your amp sn?


 
 Yes, it would be very helpful if Oshipao could just confirm 0058 was his original Invoice number rather than his amplifier serial number.


----------



## DecentLevi

liu junyuan said:


> Interesting to hear your comparisons with the Elise. I think you'll be surprised at how well things hold up. July is awhile away.
> 
> When you compare to the Zana Deux, do remember to ask which version is there, as there are essentially four different ones out in the wild; its been in production for a long time now, and changes overt that time have significantly altered its characteristics. The owner of the amp would most likely be able to explain, or I can give you some pointers what to look for.


 
 Well I'm only speculating the ZD amp will be present, as there was one at the last two meets. And any comparisons must be indirect as transporting source / DAC from room to room is too burdensome. Yup, that's right I've heard the ZD twice and am listening to the Elise. Although a comparison by 4 months of semi-poor memory, I would still hold to my virtue that the ZD is 95% of the Elise, the main difference being a smidget more realism / deeper into the scene. But I could be entirely mistaken with such an indirect comparison.
  
 I think the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten is more of a fair comparison, although I'll probably never hear the end of it if I were to proclaim the Elise is superior, seeing how a moderator of Head-Fi (Warren) is now a member of Cavalli - but him & I know each other so maybe he'll cut me some slack
  


  
 PS- I'm pretty sure invoice number # serial # are the same
  
 PPS- It's said the Liquid Tungesten may go for over $4,000


----------



## UntilThen

The Cavalli Liquid Tungsten seems to be shod with gorgeous EL34 tubes. Not sure what the little tubes in front are. Looks very classy even as a prototype. At a possible $4000.....


----------



## Liu Junyuan

decentlevi said:


> Well I'm only speculating the ZD amp will be present, as there was one at the last two meets. And any comparisons must be indirect as transporting source / DAC from room to room is too burdensome. Yup, that's right I've heard the ZD twice and am listening to the Elise. Although a comparison by 4 months of semi-poor memory, I would still hold to my virtue that the ZD is 95% of the Elise, the main difference being a smidget more realism / deeper into the scene. But I could be entirely mistaken with such an indirect comparison.
> 
> I think the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten is more of a fair comparison, although I'll probably never hear the end of it if I were to proclaim the Elise is superior, seeing how a moderator of Head-Fi (Warren) is now a member of Cavalli - but him & I know each other so maybe he'll cut me some slack
> 
> ...




I don't want to hijack the thread to turn it into a ZD thread. I just am so genuinely curious as to how the Elise compares to ANY amp I am familiar with; sadly, youre probably right the rare, hidden gem that is the 339 will probably not be present. 

Your observations based on memory, at least thus far, may turn out to be true. I am still coming to terms with the ZD and have learned to not conclude anything to too early; the 339 holds up quite well to it so far though they are unique and complementary. Its really been with the HD800 that the differences have been more apparent, with the ZD pulling further ahead in terms of resolution, dynamics, staging, and more impactful bass--a grander sound. 

Again, with the caveat I am not trying to hijack the thread, what I was referring to is that the ZD itself has four different versions: ZD, early ZDSE (Special Edition) released in 2009 and later ZDSE (less common), and finally ZDS (Super) released in 2015. Early ZDSE is the biggest departure from the rest, being thicker, more traditionally tubey, slower, less neutral, more intimate. It thus divides opinion more deeply, with some preferring that sound and others longing for the original's signature. The latest Super version uses new Japanese paper oil caps, taller cyliders, and circuit tweaks, the latter of which the later SE version shares with S. Super is closest to original but is faster, more resolving, spacious, dynamic, and clear/neutral; it thus serves as a nice contrast to the unapologetically lush, intimate, romantic sig that characterizes the 339. Tube rolling does change things up on both amps of course.

When you compare Elise to ZD, your evaluation you report will thus highly depend on which version you hear. I just read a comparison from an experienced member between Stratus and ZD, but it was critical to know he spoke of the original ZD in that comparison for me to interpret his conclusions more accurately.

Anyways, I continue to enjoy reading through the impressions here and hope I can also hear an Elise some day as more get out in the wild. 

It is neat that some of you are recently rediscovering some of the original tube types as I can more readily relate to your experiences somehat, with the 339 using the same power tubes. I have a pair of 7236 coming in finally on Wednesday. So far Bendix 6080WB remain my top pick I have heard. For some reason Chatham 2399 is hit or miss with me on the 339, and I haven't yet possessed the precious GEC 6AS7G. Svetlana 61N3S got use last night.

Happy Elise/vinyl listening!


----------



## UntilThen

DL, I don't think it's fair to compare Elise with ZDS or Cavalli flagship OTL Liquid Tungsten. I'm a realist. I don't expect Elise to sound better than those amps. 
  
 For $700 though, it's pretty hot mustard.


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> For the life of me, I cannot understand why Feliks Audio didn't design it with 20 to 30 sockets that could accommodate every tube that has even been invented !!!!


 
 The thing is, it's pretty easy to make a 6V/12V switch -- a lot easier than making a ton of different sockets. I've thought about making the 6V/12V switch myself.


----------



## 2359glenn

suuup said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > For the life of me, I cannot understand why Feliks Audio didn't design it with 20 to 30 sockets that could accommodate every tube that has even been invented !!!!
> ...


 

 Build a adapter with a voltage doubler in it.
 I used to make one to use the cheaper B36 and TSRP 12SN7.


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> Build a adapter with a voltage doubler in it.
> I used to make one to use the cheaper B36 and TSRP 12SN7.


 
 Like this?


----------



## 2359glenn

suuup said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Build a adapter with a voltage doubler in it.
> ...


 

 That is it.
 For the caps use 1000uf 10 volt you can get them small enough to fit everything into a large tube base.
  
 Also you can build a voltage quadrupler with 4 diodes and 4 caps and get 25.2 volts and use the Brimmer 13D1 and the USA  1633.
 And who knows what crazy tubes you guys can come up with.


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> That is it.
> For the caps use 1000uf 10 volt you can get them small enough to fit everything into a large tube base.
> 
> Also you can build a voltage quadrupler with 4 diodes and 4 caps and get 25.2 volts and use the Brimmer 13D1 and the USA  1633.
> And who knows what crazy tubes you guys can come up with.


 
 Cheap Chinese caps fine? Just ordered 10x 1000uf 10V for 1$.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> PS- I'm pretty sure invoice number # serial # are the same




Been confirmed 100% of the time, that they are not the same.


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Been confirmed 100% of the time, that they are not the same.


 
 Can confirm, they're not the same.


----------



## 2359glenn

suuup said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > That is it.
> ...


 

 I used cheep Chinese caps and worked fine made and sold several and never had a complaint about a failure.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Like this?




Question about this circuit...it takes DC and doubles the voltage, correct? IE 6.3v DC in becomes 12.6v DC out?

I had this idea long ago, for Elise, and ordered two small circuits already made, for cheap:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VA0GRFG/ref=asc_df_B00VA0GRFG4294750

But discovered Elise uses AC, not DC for the heater supply.

Have not seen a similar circuit to double AC voltage.

Does one exist?


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Question about this circuit...it takes DC and doubles the voltage, correct? IE 6.3v DC in becomes 12.6v DC out?
> 
> I had this idea long ago, for Elise, and ordered two small circuits already made, for cheap:
> 
> ...


 
 A simple rectifier would work?


----------



## Suuup

Just got my birthday present from my GF.


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> I didn't get the T1 from Jan so I don't know his price. I paid $1390 for the HD800S, and that included shipping. At the time, the S wasn't available anywhere here in the US, and the waiting list price was $1699, so I think his price on the T1 would be pretty competitive.
> 
> Edit:  I guess I should point out that my price may have been so good because I didn't have to pay VAT. Anyway, just email him and ask. He's very responsive and easy to work with.



 


Yeah VAT will make around 23% in Germany, remember people in CA complaining about 7.5% sales tax...

Probably not an option if that was the savings. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## Suuup

wb2016 said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't get the T1 from Jan so I don't know his price. I paid $1390 for the HD800S, and that included shipping. At the time, the S wasn't available anywhere here in the US, and the waiting list price was $1699, so I think his price on the T1 would be pretty competitive.
> ...


 
 German VAT is 19%. In Denmark we have a 25% VAT on everything.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> A simple rectifier would work?




It would, but as we have seen, using DC for heater voltage can introduce HUM / Ground issues that seem to not exist, when using AC.

Congrats on the turntable, Suuup!!

What cartridge preamp will you use?


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Just got my birthday present from my GF.





WOW!!

Happy Birthday!

Good GF...!!!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> It would, but as we have seen, using DC for heater voltage can introduce HUM / Ground issues that seem to not exist, when using AC.
> 
> Congrats on the turntable, Suuup!!
> 
> What cartridge preamp will you use?


 
  


jazzvinyl said:


> WOW!!
> 
> Happy Birthday!
> 
> Good GF...!!!


 
 Don't know anything about turntables.. I was thinking of just plugging it into my Elise and press play?
  
 About using a rectifier, wouldn't it already share a common ground with Elise, since we're taking the signal directly from Elise?
  
 Edit: Oh, and thanks! Hehe


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Both, the audiophillia nervosa exasperates the problem. 

But if you spend 200 then 400 then 699, you just spent 600 more for nothing. Money killed. Its more of a grass is always greener on the other side and not being able to just enjoy music but feel that you are missing something. Good stereo equipment will last a long time, the only exception possibly being dacs that become obsolete quicker. The other part is just having to mess with things and not being to leave a good thing alone and pure impulsiveness. Then there is the tweaking and if I only got XY I would be happy. Sometimes you learn something along the way but I am sometimes amazed at the fact that getting an installer and building a well planned system will save people a lot of money over the fiddling and upgrading path. Now if you are an upgradaholic and that is why you are in the hobby at least be honest with yourself, nothing wrong with that just know what your goal is enjoying music or shopping, and maybe look into DIY. 

It sounds very harsh and was one of the reasons I still do High End installs, because you get to play with systems without spending your own cash and do it right with a fixed budget, but just be clear what your goals are and not follow what magazines tell you (the whole raison d'etre for them is to sell audio equipment) will make you happy. Its marketing, I worked in Marketing for 7 years, the goal is to make you feel unhappy and that you need to buy something to fix a hole or perceived inability. 

Get the best elements that you can afford and that fit together, but this requires patience and a bit of planning and research instead of impuls buying. If people really followed this the audio industry would be in trouble because about half to 2/3s of the purchases are unnecessary and often attempt to address issues that cannot be fixed with upgrades, e.g. room acoustics, power fluctuations, ground loops, system mismatches or teach people to analyze their music for errors or lacking. Its a male thing especially and the industry feeds on insecurities. 

The whole ABX testing and being able to distinguish as a counterargument is also meaningless for categories that are not rationally or distinctly seperatable. It has to do with implicit (automatic) processing vs. explicit (conscious) processing phallacies. Music and enjoying has lillte to do with testing but how it makes you feel and even without being aware the unconscious processes (over 97% of cognition) will do the evaluating and tell you if you are happy if you can follow your instincts. Now for men to trust their intuition and being to just let go and enjoy instead of chasing perfection is a real problem, especially for those who need measure to trust their own eyes, or ears in audio Oh, the Psychologist in me is talking again...

So know what your budget will be, what you want, do some research, meet some audiophiles go to some shows and meets and take everything you read with lots of grains of salt. 

Cheers 
WB


----------



## WB2016

suuup said:


> German VAT is 19%. In Denmark we have a 25% VAT on everything.



 


Yes your right I was thinking of Elise with Poland and 23%, mostly 19% in Germany although there are exceptions and increases and turnover tax, etc. but for excemptions its 19%. Minimun in EU is 15%. which is more than twice that in most states in the US. Used to be 16% in Germany. Dealing with 20% here in Austria at the moment.

Thanks for correcting that. Stil its money I will not save being in the EU 

Cheers
WB


----------



## pctazhp

@WB2016. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. You bring a very unique perspective to this thread.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > Like this?
> ...


 

 This circuit requires AC in so it is 6volt AC input and 12 volt DC output
 It will not work with DC input. So it will work with the Elise that is AC.
  
 Cheep 1000uf 10volt capacitors and cheep 1N4001 diodes are fine


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> This circuit requires AC in so it is 6volt AC input and 12 volt DC output
> It will not work with DC input. So it will work with the Elise that is AC.
> 
> Cheep 1000uf 10volt capacitors and cheep 1N4001 diodes are fine


 
 Excellent! Bought 20x 1KV 10A diodes.


----------



## richdytch

Good afternoon all. I'm currently settling in with my Mullard 6080/EL3N combination, and it seems to be working out very nicely. I think I'll give tube rolling a rest for a while and just enjoy this setup. There is a 50Hz hum which arrived when the EL3N warmed up... I'll have to wait and see if it goes away with burn-in. But in any case it's not severe enough to get in the way of the music, and this combo sounds so lovely I'll overlook it! 
  
 Thanks for all the tips and info on this thread so far.


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> @WB2016. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. You bring a very unique perspective to this thread.



 


Your more than welcome.
WB


----------



## WB2016

suuup said:


> Just got my birthday present from my GF.



 


Hi 
what is that an Essential II from Project? Hard to to tell. If it is good value for the money.
Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> @WB2016. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. You bring a very unique perspective to this thread.



 


Maybe I should clarify that I don't suggest to buy everything at once, but to get the best piece you can afford into the system piece by piece, unless you take out a loan or got an inheritence, etc. 

You can learn a lot from having the best piece in there and then through experience see what elements influences it. You learn a lot from a "reference" (by your standards and wallet) in a system and how elements influence this. The first step is hard and usually involves a bit of trust or imitation. The Elise is nice because you can play with tubes and get a feel of different sounds within the same base (the Elise amp) then you can try to have friends come over or amazon with return and when the next paycheck comes find the next piece. Its tempting to get something that will quickly improve things but in the end will become obsolete so this approach requires some discipline It will take longer, but you will learn more and have a far better system than making a whole lot of compromises. You will also save money and be able to have a system usually a category or more better than with the upgrade approach. Also a big issue is burn in and having your ears get used to a piece of equipment in the chain, then the add another "reference" (your not "objective") is the way to grow the chain. This was suggested to me by people who really know how to create excellent systems. It is also the scientific experimental approach, keep everything constant and change one thing experimentally This will work better than ABX purely based on the cognitive processes in your head, such as habituation and association.

By this approach you will also be able to perceive the effect of minor pieces of the chain, things that you cannot "hear" but that will ultimately influence ho you perceive and possibly enjoy your music. Mainly in the end you don't have regrets and start spending money and fall into what you so aptly call audiophilia nervosa. Its like knowing you did the best you could and learning to be happy with the choice you make. You can only do your best but you were more involved in a controlled manner in the process. 

This approach is hard, but the Elise, or a reference HP that many consider an endgame that you can trust is a good starting point.
A great starting point is also something like the Munich High End HP booths, where they have the same (objective neutral reference) amp but 30-40 different hp next to each other to see what constant with one variable sounds like. Its not a perfect approach but its a good start. 

Again this is my opinion based on quite a few years as an installer and consultant with a bit of a clinical background as a scientist and psychologist, but mainly learning from people who know much more than me and that tought me to avoid reinventing the wheel and making all the errors myself. Its all more complicated than just ordering what gets a five star review in a journal unfortunately

Cheers
WB


----------



## oshipao

geetarman49 said:


> yep, i'm aware of that ... but otoh, oshipao was responding to howie's query about invoice #, so ... ?
> 
> @oshipao ---- was that your invoice # or just your amp sn?




Hi,

It was my S/N. Did not get a invoice number as far as I know.

Hope you'll get yours soon!


----------



## Suuup

wb2016 said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > Just got my birthday present from my GF.
> ...



Correct!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Don't know anything about turntables.. I was thinking of just plugging it into my Elise and press play?
> 
> About using a rectifier, wouldn't it already share a common ground with Elise, since we're taking the signal directly from Elise?
> 
> Edit: Oh, and thanks! Hehe




You need a cartridge preamp to get the signal loud enough for Elise to further amplify...

http://www.phonopreamps.com/

Would rather use 12.6v ac inside Elise, instead of DC for heater current. That DC booster board I linked to earlier, I am pretty sure is DC in and DC out, not AC in and DC out. Yes, the hum problem could be handled but as I said...seems to me AC a better way to go for heater circuits (just my preference, after running both).


----------



## geetarman49

oshipao said:


> Hi,
> 
> It was my S/N. Did not get a invoice number as far as I know.
> 
> Hope you'll get yours soon!


 

 thanks ... & thanks for the clarification.  if you received an email from lukasz just prior to payment, you might find the invoice # embedded there.


----------



## Kon Peki

Sorry if I missed this somewhere.  Did Lukasz ever affirm to anyone that using EL3Ns as drivers via adapter was okay for this amp?  It's not in the manual, and I want to stick to manufacturer-approved tubes.  Thanks, Amin


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> suuup said:
> 
> 
> > 2359glenn said:
> ...


 
 +1 with what Glenn says about the 13D1 Brimar and the USA1633 tubes.
  
 If you guys can get this to work...the Brimar 13D1 is a wonderful sounding tube, it has gone up in price quite a bit since I bought mine...but the RCA 1633 smoked glass tubes can be had for really cheap and they sound very nice...I think I bought 5 NOS for like $22.  Heck nobody else can use them  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 12SN7 are also great deals, I have bought many lots of those for very cheap...I soon had about 50 12SN7 tubes and had very little money in them...
  
 Good luck, hope you guys get it figured out so you can save some money on tubes.


----------



## oshipao

geetarman49 said:


> thanks ... & thanks for the clarification.  if you received an email from lukasz just prior to payment, you might find the invoice # embedded there.




No problem.

Okay, that's probably why I did not get one, went through and paid by PayPal and just got a receipt.


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 Over the years I have used a different approach to choose my equipment. Since I cannot go to Hi Fi shows and check things out, I keep on reading and building reference points in my mind. A lot of purchasing decisions are financial. Also, by reading, you will come to understand which people have taste similar to yours, and you may be able to rely on their opinions.
  
 As you mention, you cannot always go by the recommendations in the audio magazines. In today's age, you can look up consumer reviews on the internet on many items. Reading through these is often very helpful. I would not rely on a couple of reviews, but if there are many of them, you can get a good idea by reading 20 or 50 reviews.
  
 I used to buy expensive items from high end salons to be sure I got good stuff, but today I feel that there is often no correlation between price and performance. A speaker system costing $250 today may be superior sounding to a speaker system costing 10 times more 20 years ago (maybe today as well). Sometimes old high quality items can be bought or gotten very inexpensive, and they will serve well today.
  
 As an aside, there is a huge interest in the US (and most likely elsewhere) for old high end items. If you have old pieces of equipment sitting around that are not being used, I encourage you to try to sell them on eBay and similar venues. You may be surprised how much certain items sell for. To check the market value, type in what you a re looking for, bring up what is available on the screen, and then scroll down on the left side until the last check box entry: SOLD ITEMS.
  
 When you click on this, you will see what sold (price in green) in the past two months and for how much, enabling you to set your price realistically.


----------



## mordy

Hi Kon Peki,
  
 Regarding which tubes to use, I would not worry about solely the manufacturer's recommendations. The main thing is to use tubes that are running on 6.3V and don't draw more current than the amp can handle.
  
 The choice of tubes for a manufacturer is based on the availability and price of tubes and not necessarily what may be the best sounding ones. Within what is available in quantity the manufacturer can choose the best ones for their product.
  
 High end manufacturers like Atma Sphere that sells amps in the $12,000 - 60,000 range, are using Russian or Chinese tubes since these are available in large quantities.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Just got my birthday present from my GF.


 

 Nice !!! Don't you love wives or GFs who give you turntables.
  
 Yup get a phono preamp and away you go... after you've balanced the arm and set stylus pressure and anti-skating adjustment right. My Denon came with build in phono preamp which can be switch off so I just plug it into Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

Let's not forget the wives and GFs who let you buy high end audio products 
  
 Tonight's playlist, through HD600, EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G, smooth as silk, I love the non-fatiguing sound!!!
  

  
  
  

  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones! 
 LR


----------



## connieflyer

untilthen said:


> Nice !!! Don't you love wives or GFs who give you turntables.
> 
> Yup get a phono preamp and away you go... after you've balanced the arm and set stylus pressure and anti-skating adjustment right. My Denon came with build in phono preamp which can be switch off so I just plug it into Elise.


 

 Don't forget to set overhang, and angle to turntable with protractor! So much fun,


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> Nice !!! Don't you love wives or GFs who give you turntables.


 
 I agree with this very time my GF, her friends or even old GFs get me something, while its usually a bottle or two of wine, there have been some really nice stuff over the years like 180 bottle wine cabinet, HE-560, Ember, BH Crack, 42" LED TV, 42" plasma (when they were $3K), and a D-700 camera.
  
 All this reading about turntables makes me want to get mine back out of storage again but still fearful of GF dropping the LP on the tone arm / cartridge again


----------



## connieflyer

The other way to look at is if it is in storage, you won't be able to hear either, give her instructions and hope for the best!


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> The other way to look at is if it is in storage, you won't be able to hear either, give her instructions and hope for the best!


 
 Did the instruction bit twice and she still damaged 2 stylus, the damages have only happened after she has a bit too much to drink (about a bottle wine or 4-6 shots) and when she is trying to change one LP for another, rushing too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to get the next LP on


----------



## connieflyer

Interesting video on LInn Sondek


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi again folks, I'm getting a high pitch sound on my left channel with the tubes I'm using on the Elise. It's like a high pitch hissing sound I'd imagine being over 8khz, happening more often that not, but quiet enough to only be audible when no audio is playing. I know it's not a problem with the Elise, so does this sound like a bad connection on one of the adapters, or just a bad tube? Thanks


----------



## lukeap69

I had the same issue on my Glenn OTL Darna 3 days ago when I rolled my newly acquired Sylvania 6BL7's. I let them burn in for a day or so an then tapped the amp with my hand few times (old Russian solution from Armaggedon movie) and it solved the problem. 

It may not be safe tapping the amp with your hand whilst on hence consult the manufacturer to be safe and sure.


----------



## pctazhp

Gentleman Jim Reeves died in a plane crash in 1964 at the age of 40. I remember listening to this song late at night on my orange and black AM Motorola 55L3U "Golden Voice" (tube) radio as I licked my wounds after my 7th grade girlfriend dumped me. Fortunately, I've got no wounds to lick tonight but it is the last song I'm listening to before I go to bed.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

For anyone here, would you consider the Feliks Elise to be the best headphone tube amp under $1000? Compared to  such amps as the La Figaro 339, Woo WA3/6, Little Dot Mk6, etc.?


----------



## HOWIE13

oshipao said:


> No problem.
> 
> Okay, that's probably why I did not get one, went through and paid by PayPal and just got a receipt.


 
 Hi again
 On my PayPal receipt at the end, just above where it says 'yours sincerely PayPal' is the Invoice ID number.
 Maybe they are all different.
 How are you finding the sound?


----------



## oshipao

howie13 said:


> Hi again
> On my PayPal receipt at the end, just above where it says 'yours sincerely PayPal' is the Invoice ID number.
> Maybe they are all different.
> How are you finding the sound?




Hi Howie,

I can only find a transaction id, so I guess they do look different.

It is quieter (more blackness) and have tighter bass than the Bottlehead Crack, but I feel the soundstage might be narrower atm. Mind, I have stock tubes and only 10 hours on it yet.

Thinking of placing the Sylvanias 6sn7gtb tonight. Very happy overall initially.


----------



## Oskari

decentlevi said:


> Congrats guys, the collective enthusiasm from new (and old alike) Eliser's has thrust our thread to #2 on Head-Fi again!




Currently #1 in 7-day stats!


----------



## HOWIE13

oshipao said:


> Hi Howie,
> 
> I can only find a transaction id, so I guess they do look different.
> 
> ...


 
 That's good to hear.
 I heard a Crack a while back, very nice amp but wasn't so impressed with the bass, so if Elise improves on that it will suit me.


----------



## richdytch

Dear forum members. I have a hum situation, but an unusual one. 
  
 If I use the Elise as a preamp to my Marantz PM7001KI, I experience zero hum. Even up close - nothing can be heard. Neither hum nor hiss, irrespective of the volume on the Elise, or the tube combinations being used. 
  
 If I swap out the Marantz for my Quad 909 - which is a FAR better amplifier, I get a degree of 50Hz hum, and some quieter harmonics of it - Elise volume has no effect. 
  
 The hum with the stock tubes was extremely minimal - totally enough to live with. It changed slightly in nature when swapping between the stock power tubes and 6080s, but got no louder. Then I recently got going with my EL3Ns. The combination of EL3N and 6080 produced, for the first time, a louder 50Hz hum which can be heard as a very low note during quieter passages of music. 
  
 Swapping the 6080 for the stock power tubes or the RCA 6AS7G made the hum roughly twice as loud as with the 6080. 
  
 BUT - as I said, all of this only occurs when I'm using the Quad 909. Zilch when using the Marantz. 
  
 The only fundamental difference relevant to this situation, that I can think of, is that the Marantz is earthed to ground, the Quad (a class II appliance) is not. There is no earth pin where the power cord goes. So, I tried taking a wire from mains earth to the case of the 909. This had zero effect on the hum. 
  
 Any ideas on how I might solve this one? I'm not regarding this as an Elise problem, I'm regarding it as a Quad 909 problem - I never hear ANY noise through the Elise's headphone output. I have heard of others with this 909 issue in the past, but none seem to have got to the bottom of it. 
  
 Any thoughts welcomed. I'd dearly love to carry on using the EL3N/6080 combination since it sounds beautiful, and so does the quad - but in this configuration the hum is actually loud enough to bother me - more by the fact that it exists than anything -you can feel the 50Hz vibration on my speaker cones as well as hear it. 
  
 Cheers!
  
 Rich.


----------



## Lord Raven

Almost every hum problem is related to grounding. Check your ground throughly.


----------



## richdytch

@Lord Raven I have checked pretty thoroughly already, including removing all unnecessary parts of the system. Elise is definitely earthed,  Chord 2qute is the only thing I've been able to not confirm earth or non-earth for I guess. I'll take that out of the equation again, just to check. Like I said though, the Quad is not earthed, and earthing it did not make any difference. 
  
 Rich


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> I let them burn in for a day or so an then tapped the amp with my hand few times (old Russian solution from Armageddon movie) and it solved the problem.




The old "percussive maintainence" trick 'eh?


----------



## JazzVinyl

richdytch said:


> The only fundamental difference relevant to this situation, that I can think of, is that the Marantz is earthed to ground, the Quad (a class II appliance) is not. There is no earth pin where the power cord goes. So, I tried taking a wire from mains earth to the case of the 909. This had zero effect on the hum.




This is the answer. Keep trying to earth (ground) your Quad 909. 

@Lord Raven has expirence in solving a tough grounding (earth) problem.


----------



## lukeap69

jazzvinyl said:


> The old "percussive maintainence" trick 'eh?




Indeed. Works for me.


----------



## richdytch

jazzvinyl said:


> This is the answer. Keep trying to earth (ground) your Quad 909.
> 
> @Lord Raven has expirence in solving a tough grounding (earth) problem.


 
  
 Cheers JV, I'll keep trying. 
  
 Agree that earthing is somehow the problem - I just need to work out how  
  
 I also don't want to go spending any more money on a different power amp, so it's in my interests to solve this one.


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> Did the instruction bit twice and she still damaged 2 stylus, the damages have only happened after she has a bit too much to drink (about a bottle wine or 4-6 shots) and when she is trying to change one LP for another, rushing too much
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



You need to run a DJ bootcamp. There you train DJs who need to do shots, before and when losing, to put on lps and singles while drunk and in other altered states. Plus run a parcour of sorts. They do that here in the DJ scene a bit (especially in Reggae, Rocksteady and Dancehall), especially as punishment when a DJ scratches a rare lp/single of another DJ. I need to emphasize that this is best done with the medium battletank of the Technics 12XX but it is really fun to watch. DJs also train blind folded (necessary in case the headlamp goes out or there is too much smoke, etc.) but this seperates the amateurs from the pros being able to use two turntables after running in circles with forehead on a stick and 8 shots. 

Not sure its GF friendly but simply training for such situations in the state you are in will help you function in that state. E.g. learning underwater for scuba diving. 

Just make sure you do it with a cheap stylus Can be very fun by the way, I didn't do that bad but it took some practice 

Cheers
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

richdytch said:


> @Lord Raven I have checked pretty thoroughly already, including removing all unnecessary parts of the system. Elise is definitely earthed,  Chord 2qute is the only thing I've been able to not confirm earth or non-earth for I guess. I'll take that out of the equation again, just to check. Like I said though, the Quad is not earthed, and earthing it did not make any difference.
> 
> Rich


 
  
  
 Rich, tell me something, are you using the 3 pin power cable for Elise and the rest of your equipment in your system? Also, did you connect the negative of your Elise RCA to the main ground? I am guessing that  Chord's power supply is a two pin adapter, if yes, they replace it with a grounded power supply. Try to earth the Quad or eliminate it and then check. If it is not Elise, then it is something else.
  
 I solved my problem by running a separate ground wire to my rig, the cable is terminated to the ground of extension power cord's ground. You can try this as well.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> This is the answer. Keep trying to earth (ground) your Quad 909.
> 
> @Lord Raven has expirence in solving a tough grounding (earth) problem.


 
 Thanks JV, the rig is hum free, just like Australian suburbs are nice and quiet hehe


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > Did the instruction bit twice and she still damaged 2 stylus, the damages have only happened after she has a bit too much to drink (about a bottle wine or 4-6 shots) and when she is trying to change one LP for another, rushing too much
> ...






A "pro" DJ is one who can work his tables while high?

And what, exactly is "after running in circles with forehead on a stick and 8 shots" 

Forehead on a stick? What is that?

.


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> Cheers JV, I'll keep trying.
> 
> Agree that earthing is somehow the problem - I just need to work out how
> 
> I also don't want to go spending any more money on a different power amp, so it's in my interests to solve this one.



 


Yeah almost certainly a ground issue, maybe some type of loop being formed. I assume that the UK plug for the Quad is three prong, right, so phase will not be an issue in the UK, correct?

Try running an extension cable from another room and connect the Elise and the quad to two seperate power sources, else there seem to be a lot of photos of open quad 909 online and scematics, so likely some search on grounding and quad 909 will get you further. The better the amps the more sensitive they can be to electricity. Also check how close the Elise is to the amp, I had to move the Elise a bit away because it was influencing one of my active monitors, but this is highly unlikely. 

Not familiar with the 909 so cannot help you, actually probably could but don't have the time, sorry. 

Cheers
WB


----------



## richdytch

wb2016 said:


> Yeah almost certainly a ground issue, maybe some type of loop being formed. I assume that the UK plug for the Quad is three prong, right, so phase will not be an issue in the UK, correct?
> 
> Try running an extension cable from another room and connect the Elise and the quad to two seperate power sources, else there seem to be a lot of photos of open quad 909 online and scematics, so likely some search on grounding and quad 909 will get you further. The better the amps the more sensitive they can be to electricity. Also check how close the Elise is to the amp, I had to move the Elise a bit away because it was influencing one of my active monitors, but this is highly unlikely.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi WB. The plug on the 909 is a 3-pin, yes, but the earth pin/wire, is not connected in any way to the chassis. Odd. As I understand it, most properties in the UK have 3 phases, so one of the things I have tried is to run it off an extension cable from another part of the house. No difference. The amp is also about 6 feet away from the Elise - so I think that induction between power supplies is not likely to be the cause.
  
 At some point soon, I'm going to take the 909 apart and find a good way to earth it. 
  
 Cheers, Rich.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> A "pro" DJ is one who can work his tables while high?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah, if you destroy someone elses lps you are not a "pro" anymore. These are DJs who perfom at clubs and it is a type of "training under fire" and also a type of hazing and initiation A real pro can do everything blind, one handed, while talking to girls and while under the influence, alcohol is actually the worst I am told, but you always need to be able to deal with anything. What happens if you are the most sober of a group and asked to DJ because someone doesn't show up? Other things they do is DJ with not spilling a full drink, finding your lps with no light, oh and also a very funny excercise to DJ while doging foam balls thrown by your friends 

 They are a funny bunch the DJs I know and have to really know how to do their job under any circumstances, they are a small portion of DJs and probably a vast minority. They do this to be ready for anything, similar to the live fire excercises of the US military or hanging upside down while repairing, etc. In the more circumstances and states, e.g. stress, tunnelvision, loss of vision or coordination, dark or bright light, restricted breathing, under water, you know how to do something the more automatic and ingrained the actions will become and the better your muscle memory and the more the skillset will transfer to other domains. For the DJs I know its also being able to relax knowing you are ready for anything, they see it as going into battle and being able to just focus on the music and the crowd without having to second guess your abilities and reactions. 

DJs I know do this but they do this in a more fun way and also just to show off their skills. Plus they just get really good at it in various states after many years on the job  

Regarding the stick: You place your forehead on a stick and walk in circles around a few times until you get dizzy. Common practice when you want to get someone dizzy. Very funny to watch and usually someone checks that nothing happens or is knocked over. Funny to see DJs who can scratch and change records fine but cannot walk a step 

But even for a humble head-fier and anyone working with audio it helps being able to do work with gear when slightly drunk. If you have Russian and Ukrainian clients like I have it is also a necessity 

It was more of a joke, training your girlfriend will be difficult but definitely helpful.

DJs aren't the only ones who do this. Programmers are known to do similar things, when you consider yourself to be a "pro". Sorry couldn't resist the wordplay 

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> Hi WB. The plug on the 909 is a 3-pin, yes, but the earth pin/wire, is not connected in any way to the chassis. Odd. As I understand it, most properties in the UK have 3 phases, so one of the things I have tried is to run it off an extension cable from another part of the house. No difference. The amp is also about 6 feet away from the Elise - so I think that induction between power supplies is not likely to be the cause.
> 
> At some point soon, I'm going to take the 909 apart and find a good way to earth it.
> 
> Cheers, Rich.



 


When using Schukos or two prongs you can reverse the plug and get the device out of phase, which is a big problem in central Europe, but not in the US UK where the 3 prongs are fixed. 
Sorry, no easy solution then, best of luck.

WB


----------



## Lord Raven

If there are two prongs, that means the device is not grounded at all. Run a wire from Elise's ground pin (third ground prong) to 909's chassis and this will fix the issue.


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> Did the instruction bit twice and she still damaged 2 stylus, the damages have only happened after she has a bit too much to drink (about a bottle wine or 4-6 shots) and when she is trying to change one LP for another, rushing too much
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Oh, the other option is to have two turntables possibly with a little mixing console, also great for entertaining or if you have DJ friends or like the sound of different tts, arms and cartridges, and have one of the tables be a "under the influence" tt with a cheap cartridge. As mentioned before a direct driven Technics 12XX sounds good but different and is a real battletank. For some records listening to them on highend tt is just weird they do not sound raw enough and the old technics are far better. They often play after being dropped out of cars!!! Get them used for cheap and not worry when the mood gets to be a bit more alcohol induced. 

I have an old technics and a rega pr3, just for such evenings, although they are collecing dust mainly and most lps are sold or in storage due to moving a lot.

Cheers
WB


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> jazzvinyl said:
> 
> 
> > A "pro" DJ is one who can work his tables while high?
> ...




I think sobriety around the Turntable is a much better idea, personally....

I work with programmers every single day, and we have *no drunken, stick forehead drills*.


Things must be *VERY DIFFERENT* in Europe.


----------



## richdytch

lord raven said:


> Rich, tell me something, are you using the 3 pin power cable for Elise and the rest of your equipment in your system? Also, did you connect the negative of your Elise RCA to the main ground? I am guessing that  Chord's power supply is a two pin adapter, if yes, they replace it with a grounded power supply. Try to earth the Quad or eliminate it and then check. If it is not Elise, then it is something else.
> 
> I solved my problem by running a separate ground wire to my rig, the cable is terminated to the ground of extension power cord's ground. You can try this as well.


 

 Hi LR, 
  
 I'm using the 3 pin cable for the Elise, yes. The 2qute is an unearthed supply... you raise good points here. I did earth the chassis of the quad earlier, but maybe not to the same earth as the Elise - well, I have no clue if that makes a difference or not. What I need is to set a day aside to go through my whole setup in a systematic manner... piece by piece - speakers, power amp, preamp, source, etc... and see at what point the loop occurs. 

 I was thinking if I can't nail it, then a couple of these would probably do the trick: 
http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/6810.pdf
  
 but that's probably a defeatist attitude 
  
 Nonetheless, this does seem to be a common problem with the Quad...


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> I think sobriety around the Turntable is a much better idea, personally....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Well lets say those "programmers" tend to be the more "independent" and extreme kind who take legality with a grain of salt  Your typical programmer as in my work has 30% red bull in his system but have difficulty handling any type of liquor or social situations most of the time . 

Could be a European thing, but I remember a similar culture in SF and LA when I lived there. Its almost exclussively a male thing trying to show off how good and tough you are and testing if you can handle yourself and deserve respect. Actually the doing stupid things while drunk if my memory serves me correctly was quite a sport in university while I was studying in the States, but alcohol played a rather minor role in DJ culture in the US.......

European are definitely odd with their alcohol and control, where in Europe loosing control while drinking if you are older is massively looked down upon. Losing control with alcohol are things you should be doing in your teens 14-18 and when you have a drivers licence you are expected to handle alcohol and not make a fool of yourself (as much  especially regarding endangering or bothering others. Its not puritanical at all the aproach to alcohol just a natural part of life, where beer and wine are served in McDonalds and in university cafeterias and cannot really be taken as an excuse to just go crazy. 

It would feel like the "twinky defense" when you use alcohol as an excuse for agregious behavior in the eyes of many.

In Europe you just go crazy no need for alcohol excuses  Its a pretty safe place where even going crazy should be done in a considerate manner and people will also tend to look out for you if that happens. (Disclaimer: Not taking any responsibility for anyone doing anything stupid anywhere ever)

 Europeans tend to do quite a bit less binge drinking than Americans (Brits excluded and most Eastern European countries) especially in Central and Southern Europe its really emberacing if you can't handle you alcohol or make a fool of yourself if you are older than 20. Throwing up in public will be a story that will follow you quite some time and better hope you have enough control to run off to a place where noone sees you or your back home  

The funniest things happen when you have asian colleagues who come over and want to partake in the festivities, some can drink well, but most seem to lack enzymes for processing and breaking down alcohol.... In Bavaria it can be relatively normal to have a mass (1L) of beer in the summer in a beergarden and go back to work, and many a asian friend or colleague of mine although warned failed to return  

This is of course massive generalisation but tends to fit well as far as general cultures go.

For me the approach is hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. Else situations where your audioequipment or other things will suffer will happen when you least expect it. Also for me the deny myself approach is not really my thing Different folks differentt strokes.


Cheers
WB


----------



## Oskari

wb2016 said:


> When using Schukos or two prongs you can reverse the plug and get the device out of phase, which is a big problem in central Europe, …




Nonsense. Imagination. High-end paranoia.

Not a problem in the north of Europe.


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> I'm using the 3 pin cable for the Elise, yes. The 2qute is an unearthed supply... you raise good points here. I did earth the chassis of the quad earlier, but maybe not to the same earth as the Elise - well, I have no clue if that makes a difference or not. What I need is to set a day aside to go through my whole setup in a systematic manner... piece by piece - speakers, power amp, preamp, source, etc... and see at what point the loop occurs.
> 
> ...



 


Don't do that fix the issue with your power it will affect everything. Its just sweeping stuff under the rug. Borrow a good meter and check everything, also the current in your house. But likely something is causing a ground loop. Checking everything ala Zen of Motorcycle Maintenance is the right approach. 

First page search on quad 909 grounding showed this same issues with preamp, no time to read it though maybe helpful
http://www.dadaelectronics.eu/ForumRetrieve.aspx?ForumID=317&TopicID=5992&NoTemplate=False

Cheers 
WB


----------



## WB2016

oskari said:


> Nonsense. Imagination. High-end paranoia.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a problem in the north of Europe.



 



I will politely disagree and it may not have a huge effect but the better the gear the more noticable. Having all your gear in phase or not depending on equipment can have no or cosiderable effect, even wives of people I did installs for noticed it upon hearing systems or complained and we checked everything and found that the cleaning lady unplugged a plug and switched it around. (Admitted these were real high end systems in perfect professional balance.) This along with cables will usually only affect systems that are already well "balanced" and all pieces on par with each other and no big mismatches but the number of clients who didn't believe but could clearly hear differences I don't want to have to count. In some systems this makes no difference, but ask anyone really working in Hifi if they think proper power conditioning or phase have no effect and he would get laughed out of the house if he maintained that position regarding all gear. Of course most midfi tends to be built in a manner to mitigate this and be plug and play, but may still be affected or influence other equipment or could benefit a bit. 

Again, it might not have any effect in some systems but is always a variable that should be taken into account when controlling a system. You can even measure the effect acoustically with good measurement equipments in some systems. Again not necessarily an issue but as Murphy's Law declares Anything that can.... Well if the issue is avoidable easily doing so (10-30minutes and a borrowed meter) is not a bad idea if it just takes a bit of time.

This is my opinion and everyone I know of who does professional high fi/end audio installation or manufacturing who I have spoken to, but again this view is surely not held by everyone in hifi. Some people are sensitive to jitter or feel something is off others don't. If it doesn't bother you listening to your music who really cares. I like systems where everything is in synch and developed a "ear" for it for better or worse. If you are bored or want to fiddle with your system why not go check that out if you use Schukos or 2 prong cables, its so simple. If not and your happy all the power to you 

Cheers
WB


----------



## Lord Raven

wb2016 said:


> richdytch said:
> 
> 
> > Hi LR,
> ...


 
 Don't do what? The "Phono Cable Isolation Transformer Unit"? Or what I suggested?


----------



## Lord Raven

richdytch said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> I'm using the 3 pin cable for the Elise, yes. The 2qute is an unearthed supply... you raise good points here. I did earth the chassis of the quad earlier, but maybe not to the same earth as the Elise - well, I have no clue if that makes a difference or not. What I need is to set a day aside to go through my whole setup in a systematic manner... piece by piece - speakers, power amp, preamp, source, etc... and see at what point the loop occurs.
> 
> ...


 
 I am certain if you ground all your system components to a common ground, it will solve the issue.
 Current is always looking for shortest path to the ground (zero voltage, earth, nada), you can check grounding with a multimeter, set it on resistance, put the prove to Elise chassis and then to the ground, note the reading and do this for all other sources, the value should be below 1 ohm.
  
 My DAC is using 2 pin 12V adapter, what I did is, connected Elise RCA's negative to the negative of my DAC's RCA to bring them on common ground using a single piece of wire, this cured the hum. If I remove this wire, the humming starts again on some very sensitive tubes.
  
 My laptop adapter is grounded, it is connected to the same extension cord, if I remove the charging pin from my laptop, the humming/noise begins, because the circuit is open at one end, if I replug it, the noise is gone. I am feeding my DAC with my laptop, the DAC is connected via RCA to Elise.
  
 So, what I did is, ground everything to the common ground, which in my case is the building ground, I ran a separate ground wire for my entire rig. Now things are quiet.
  
 Notice one thing, the house appliances also interface, AC, Washing Machine, Exhaust Fan, stuff like that. I listen to music when everything is off, around 2 AM LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

wb2016 said:


> Well lets say those "programmers" tend to be the more "independent" and extreme kind who take legality with a grain of salt  Your typical programmer as in my work has 30% red bull in his system but have difficulty handling any type of liquor or social situations most of the time .
> 
> Could be a European thing, but I remember a similar culture in SF and LA when I lived there. Its almost exclussively a male thing trying to show off how good and tough you are and testing if you can handle yourself and deserve respect. Actually the doing stupid things while drunk if my memory serves me correctly was quite a sport in university while I was studying in the States, but alcohol played a rather minor role in DJ culture in the US.......
> 
> ...




WOW! *Asians lack the enzymes for breaking down alcohol! * Did you hear THAT, *@UntilThen*?

Sounds like your "out of phase AC", rationalization.

Seriously, you should give sobriety a try, sometime.

You might find you like it.


----------



## DavidA

@JazzVinyl, @WB2016, thanks for all the "suggestions" about "training" my GF.  Lily, her friends and I couldn't stop laughing after reading your posts.
  
 I think Lily and her friends could drink most under the table, 4 of us have often killed 2 bottles Grey Goose and 1 Patron or Dobel tequila in a night, no one is throwing up or acting stupid, usually just horny.  We where reading the post after we came home last night and the girls were still drinking wine, I didn't drink much since I was cooking, made furikake crusted salmon, Cajun chicken, and grilled Ono with champagne lemon butter cappers sauce.  Another reason I don't drink too much when the girls are over is I want to a least remember the sights, most of the time they are sitting around in thongs or just a tee shirt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  If you ever watch a Korean drama show and they show an upset person drinking at a road side bar, they usually show a whole bunch of Soju bottles on the tables, that actually happens in real life quite often.  A few weeks ago Lily and I were at a friends place trying to cheer up another girl who just found out her boyfriend was fooling around and 4 of us drank the case (24 bottles) of Soju
  
 I think ones tolerance for alcohol is a combination of many factors including culture and hereditary, it can also developed over the years and it could be different type of alcohol affect different people differently.  I got a bartender friend who can kill a bottle and a half of crown while working but you give him half a bottle of beer and he's done for the night.
  
 Funny you say train like a DJ, I used to run a mobile disco back in the late 70's to early 80's with a friend, I still have my mixer but the 1200 Mk2 TT, and custom made lights are long gone.  Also sold and gave away most of the LPs.  I've done the head on a stick thing, its really funny how some react, for some its worst than drinking.  When I just started work 4-6 of us used to go to a pizza place on base and order pizza and 1-2 pitchers of beer for lunch once or twice a week, going back to work was quite easy and on Wednesday we used to go drinking as soon as we got off at 3pm, drank until 8 or 9 then went to a strip club until 11-12 then went home.
  
 Again, thanks for the suggestions, I think I'll change my V15 type III to a cheaper cartridge and see how it goes, but only going to use the Denon TT for now, the Linn and Micro Seiki will stay in storage for now.


----------



## UntilThen

After reading the last 2 pages I'm a bit out of phase.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Dave, you can send the Linn or Micro Seiki to me instead of putting it in storage. Don't forget the V15 III too.
  
 I don't drink much but my wife's BIG family in Penang does. Last August when I was there for 4 weeks, it's drinks every night. I drink way too much in that holiday. Blame the in-laws. When I came home, I got Elise in Oct and became permanently sober. The morale of the story. Get Elise. !!!
  
 Here's a song for you. In and Out of Phase.


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL Get Elise  Calm the **** down!
  
 Guys, EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G, endless music is going on right now  1 AM to 5 AM, best time to listen to music in my case, the building is surrounded by AirCons, 50C weather is a killer, the noise is there, no matter what you do!


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> 2 great albums back to back. Eric Bibb - Troubadour Live and Jazz at the Pawnshop. Truly the joy of this hobby is listening to music.
> 
> Suuup I got my ECC31 from this place and it should be arriving any minute. Nep too I believe. New at GBP65.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191687114164?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




Hey UT,

Forgot to quote you on this.

Met both Eric and Staffan at a local jazz club here in Gothenburg a year or two ago. Extremely humble persons both of them. I heard Eric lives in Finland, so if he's around for another gig anytime soon I'll get you an signed CD... or if available vinyl!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Are you genetically incapable of ever being anything other than a complete jerk????


 

 JV wasn't saying anything bad about me. He was just trying to contradict WB. I'm not in the least offended. I don't drink much but I know a lot of Asians does.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> After reading the last 2 pages I'm a bit out of phase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 UT -- i *like* but the _video_ suxx; bearing in mind some recent postings, this might be appropriate:


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Hey UT,
> 
> Forgot to quote you on this.
> 
> Met both Eric and Staffan at a local jazz club here in Gothenburg a year or two ago. Extremely humble persons both of them. I heard Eric lives in Finland, so if he's around for another gig anytime soon I'll get you an signed CD... or if available vinyl!


 

 Ha I was wondering where in the world is Gothenburg. It's in Sweden. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yup haven't heard Eric Bibb for a while.


----------



## Lord Raven

How do you guys see YouTube music on your DAC? Mine does not work  The above music is great, Trace I suppose!


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> UT -- i *like* but the _video_ suxx; bearing in mind some recent postings, this might be appropriate:


 
 Geetarman... I always thought of you as the guitarman. I'm afraid that song doesn't start the morning well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When are you going to try the Chatham 6AS7G I sold you?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> JV wasn't saying anything bad about me. He was just trying to contradict WB. I'm not in the least offended. I don't drink much but I know a lot of Asians does.


 
 Well I'll back off. I didn't see what he was referring to.
  
 Maybe I'm a little sensitive. At one point, alcohol almost ruined my life, and it isn't a laughing matter for me. Also, differentiating races genetically reminds me of a shameful time in US history when some argued African American brains were somehow genetically deficient.Believe me, alcoholism knows no class, race or gender boundaries.
  
 The simple truth as far as I'm concerned is anyone, regardless of race, whose drinking causes harm to him or others and yet continues to drink has problems.
  
 Edit:  I'll go back into seclusion where I belong )))


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> Well I'll back off. I didn't see what he was referring to.
> 
> Maybe I'm a little sensitive. At one point, alcohol almost ruined my life, and it isn't a laughing matter for me. Also, differentiating races genetically reminds me of a shameful time in US history when some argued African American brains were somehow genetically deficient.Believe me, alcoholism knows no class, race or gender boundaries.
> 
> ...


 
 Please come back, we want you  Can you believe I have never ever drank a drop of Alcohol  It is a forbidden fruit for me hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

If it is not Chris Cornell, I don't want it!


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> After reading the last 2 pages I'm a bit out of phase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Nice.  Its this that will keep me in this thread, great recommendations


----------



## Lord Raven

davida said:


> Nice.  Its this that will keep me in this thread, great recommendations


 
 What about the occasional drama? It keeps me here LOL


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, @Lord Raven, I can understand the alcohol issue, I've had a few friends who didn't make it out alive from high school due to alcohol problems.  Its also one of the reasons when my GF Lily and her friends drink a lot I usually tend to stay sober as much as I can and why I cook for them to keep them from really getting plastered.
  
 I guess a little drama is ok but would not like it to be very often
  
 Back to the Elise which I'm still dreaming of. . . . .


----------



## UntilThen

Yup pct dont go away. Who's going to feed me Glenn Campbell's songs if you go into seclusion.


----------



## mordy

This is how I feel about the present discussion - hooooo  hooooo:


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Yup pct dont go away. Who's going to feed me Glenn Campbell's songs if you go into seclusion.


 
 LOL and who will tell me to edit my posts?


----------



## Lord Raven

I have been waiting all my life for this DSD, this is a gem for me. I play hand drums in a drum circle, and absolutely love the sound, amazing warm bass. Baba Olatunji is the pioneer of african drumming, he is from Nigeria  Love his beats.
  
 EL3N magic coming through Chatham 6AS7G and HD 600
  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones!


----------



## connieflyer

PCT, just let me say, that I for one would miss your commentary, this is a very diverse group of people, all bound by one single, simple truth.  We all love music, we enjoy the Elise of course, but it is the music that is provided by her that always amazes. I don't plan on ever using external power, but I enjoy reading the exploit's of those that do. Hope they make it thru with out damage, and their own enjoyment is paramount. I had trouble with alcohol when younger, when I got out of the Navy, a friend of mine and I go out to the girlie hangouts and would take turns getting absolutely plastered.  One nite for Gary, and I would drive and limit my consumption but still imbibe, next nite my turn it got stupid after awhile, because the one that was supposed to drive and stay reasonable sober ( yea Right!) often misplaced the car. I remember the last time I got really blitzed, I closed a local bar at 2:30 left the bar, waited until a Kroger delivery semi went by and figured it was big enough so I could safely follow home as the next Kroger store was a block from my house. Unfortunately for me he went out the expressway and I ended up thirty miles away before I realized my mistake. He pulled into a rest stop, so did I, and I stayed there in the car and slept it off.  Let's just say my friend latter on was not so lucky.  I learned my weakness for it, same with smoking, quit cold turkey, not fun but necessary.  I think most of us have "stories" that affect us, and we are a little sensitive of it, but we also have to understand that, others that have not walked in our shoes, have not seen or felt it, yet.  Please reconsider your absence, we are better together, weaknesses and all.  This thread had kept me here, and opened my eyes and my mind to things and music I was never exposed to,  fabulous journey.  Do I like it all?  Of course, not.  But I keep listening because I have found some real gems. You my friend would be missed, as most of us would, even old guys like me (well maybe not) but one thing in life's journey, has shown me, we are all just trying to get along. End of soapbox, please stay, Don


----------



## UntilThen

CF send me this Bob Seger album. Love it. Here's 'Against the Wind' which is not in the album. A song gone by which brings back happy memories. Heard this song so many times but I didn't know it's by Bob Seger until now.
  
 Do you like the matching red?


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, I also echo the others to not go into seclusion, I've enjoyed your post in other threads as well as those here.  I should apologize to you and the others for getting off topic and on to alcohol related items.


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> WOW! *Asians lack the enzymes for breaking down alcohol! * Did you hear THAT, *@UntilThen*?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah the process is called Alcohol dehydrogenase the mutation is usually in the sequencing on the ADH1B gene and has to do with the production of dehydrogenase peptide that catalyse alcohol. Depends on the halotypes you have what extent toxic acetaldehyde is produced but the varieties which causes more toxic acetaldehyde, are far more prominent in Eastern Asia. 

If you do want a more scientific description than in the previous post of the phenomenon 

I tend to not drink much anymore but about being sober in decisions well that might be a different story probably both extremes. Its more wine and women and vodka and russians I currently have to contend with 

Cheers WB


----------



## Lord Raven

wb2016 said:


> Yeah the process is called Alcohol dehydrogenase the mutation is usually in the sequencing on the ADH1B gene and has to do with the production of dehydrogenase peptide that catalyse alcohol. Depends on the halotypes you have what extent toxic acetaldehyde is produced but the varieties which causes more toxic acetaldehyde, are far more prominent in Eastern Asia.
> 
> If you do want a more scientific description than in the previous post of the phenomenon
> 
> ...


 
 LOL I totally get it now  I hope it brings Phil back..


----------



## Lord Raven

Awesome song UT  keep em coming!!! I hate youtube though!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> CF send me this Bob Seger album. Love it. Here's 'Against the Wind' which is not in the album. A song gone by which brings back happy memories. Heard this song so many times but I didn't know it's by Bob Seger until now.
> 
> Do you like the matching red?


----------



## Lord Raven

Anticipation next on my playlist  We got to love Carly Simon!!!!
  
 Magic coming through EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G, Sennheiser HD 600 is singing, I am touched!!!
  
 My DSD collection is piling up, guys, this is the closest anyone could get to a record.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's *Turn the Page* which is in that album.  wth lyrics so you know what he's singing.


----------



## Lord Raven

This is hilarious


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> @JazzVinyl, @WB2016, thanks for all the "suggestions" about "training" my GF.  Lily, her friends and I couldn't stop laughing after reading your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah, alcohol and enjoying, life its different strokes for different folks and constitutions vary vastly. I got drunk under the table by a 50kg 110lbs Polish girl a year back. We started doing mixed drinks but proceeded to glasses of vodka and after starting on the third bottle of specailty polish vodka she and I had brought, I had to run home with the excuse of catching the last metro. The girl called me at 9am and asked if I wanted to have breakfast they had done an allnighter... Well after cheating and getting a few hours of sleep, and some ibus I went for breakfast, definitely a strange mating ritual but who am I to judge, but will refrain from drinking games with Polish, Russians and Ukranians, regardless of sex if it can be avoided

 A simple, cheap and dirty turntable when drinking is the way to go, in company and with much "ruckuous" it can even sound better, more raw instead of refined, and when you are sober you should be able to change the beater cartridge back to something more audiophile without problems, or if you have the the mixer still get an old technics, it just brings the club back home and especially nice in female company.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

untilthen said:


> JV wasn't saying anything bad about me. He was just trying to contradict WB. I'm not in the least offended. I don't drink much but I know a lot of Asians does.



 


Yeah I don't think anyone was offended by some off the cuff banter, hopefully. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## nykobing

lord raven said:


> Anticipation next on my playlist  We got to love Carly Simon!!!!
> 
> Magic coming through EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G, Sennheiser HD 600 is singing, I am touched!!!
> 
> My DSD collection is piling up, guys, this is the closest anyone could get to a record.


 
  
 Imagine if you drank, it gets rid of tube hum.


----------



## DavidA

@WB2016, Lily is 42kg, Coco is 44kg and Ari is 46kg and they drink a lot while working as bartender, hostess, or DJ.
   Just look at my avatar, Lily (left) and Mari are drinking while on the beach which is illegal for public beaches here in Hawaii, that's why the bottles are wrapped up.
@Lord Raven, you have some great classics


----------



## connieflyer

For those old enough to remember..........


----------



## UntilThen

Very funny comments !!! My stylus skip a bit from my laughing.


----------



## connieflyer

Man, cannot believe we dressed like these folks, whoa old guy! If you follow the link to the youtube video itself they have all the 60-70's hits, hilarious!  I lived so I can laugh, you youngen's have to earn the old age moniker to laugh!


----------



## UntilThen

@oshipao  this is the Mustang Selby that I bought. Should do the trick. I'll let you know if it's ok when it arrives. It's $20 postage free.


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, I'm old enough to remember. . . . but didn't dress like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@UntilThen, can that Selby work in reverse, 1 in and 4 out?


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @UntilThen, can that Selby work in reverse, 1 in and 4 out?


 
 No. You can buy this though. Just ignore the video if you don't use it.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-In-4-Out-4-Ports-RCA-AV-Audio-Video-Switch-Splitter-Box-for-HDTV-DVD-LCD-/361527735607?hash=item542cbb7537:g:--sAAOxyzfNRtsfh


----------



## connieflyer

And this is what the great Australia's contribution to America's downfall!


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Well I'll back off. I didn't see what he was referring to.
> 
> Maybe I'm a little sensitive. At one point, alcohol almost ruined my life, and it isn't a laughing matter for me. Also, differentiating races genetically reminds me of a shameful time in US history when some argued African American brains were somehow genetically deficient.Believe me, alcoholism knows no class, race or gender boundaries.
> 
> ...



 


I do hope no one was offended. Maybe its a very liberal attitude to alcohol I and many Europeans have and working managing how teams of researchers network effectively, mostly in biotech, but there is quite a bit of science to the differences on the affects of alcohol based on genes. One of the most common ones is the famous alcohol alcohol dehydrogenase (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dehydrogenase for a simple intro) processing that depends on what halotype you are, as with most things genetic its all likelihoods and there is often far more hetreogenety within what people call "races" than between them:

Just when I start throwing around halotypes, gene mutations and likelihood in populations and how this and various environemtal factors,such as cutlure, experiences, diet, etc. might affect people and their epigenetics the whole conversation will become really boring really fast. Sometimes over generalization is just much easier and you can be tongue in cheak about generalizations and make fun of those that hold on to such odd concepts as race, nationalities or innate superiorities or differences. For me to make generalizations about race is so absolutely absurd that it doesn't even come into my head, maybe probabilities and patterns of genetic drift interacting with cultural and environmental factors that can predict some behavior along a gausian curve for population statistics, but you talk about race or nationality so you have a frame of reference to have a conversation and share experiences. But even culture is absurd like all American have one culture, NY, LA, South, Midwest, Texas there is more variety and hetereogeneity there than between Americans and French but there are often observable cultural influences that one can talk about. 

Plus I come here to have some fun and share experiences and read interesting stories and good music not fully defined pc diplomatic talk.

Regarding the issues of harming, as I hope I made clear in a previous post, is the name of the game. Whatever addiction of behaviour or thought, if its internet, alcohol, sex, drugs, food, etc. that harms you or the people around you should be avoided and you becoming aware of it and having an amount of control. I am from the school of confronting and being self aware instead of avoiding and banning, but that approach might not work for everyone, or goes against their culture, norms and beliefs, but it is in line with all my private and professional experiences. But also projecting what works for you and believing to know what works or what others should do is a slippery slope, and I have had to run that being and working as a clinical Psychologist during my PhD. Luckily not anymore, giving suggestions on audio is so much easier than on peoples lives

Know thy self and follow the golden rule and most problems in life can be avoided. Much easier done than said though  

Mostly this was supposed to be some light banter on some off topic discussions because I have had much more down time than expected but needed to be close to the computer because my boss is out of the country. Hoped this aburd suggestion of training a GF to do DJ bootcamp should have been clearly understood as being tongue in cheak, especially keeping it light and sharing experiences with David but unfortunately being PC and avoiding all potentially thorny issues rarely allows for much humor, and tends to limit interesting exchanges of thought. IMO.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Well I'll back off. I didn't see what he was referring to.
> 
> Maybe I'm a little sensitive. At one point, alcohol almost ruined my life, and it isn't a laughing matter for me. Also, differentiating races genetically reminds me of a shameful time in US history when some argued African American brains were somehow genetically deficient.Believe me, alcoholism knows no class, race or gender boundaries.
> 
> ...



 


Don't go into seclussion would be ashamed. Enjoy that there is variety in people and tastes and everyone has strengths, issues and problems. What a boring world it would be if everyone was the same or "perfect". Also this board would miss not having you.

Cheers
WB
Corrected spelleing of perfect, can't even spell perfect so seem to really have issues with being perfectt


----------



## UntilThen

One more album from CF. This is truly down memory lane. Love this song. !!!


----------



## connieflyer

And I raise you one...


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> @WB2016, Lily is 42kg, Coco is 44kg and Ari is 46kg and they drink a lot while working as bartender, hostess, or DJ.
> 
> 
> Just look at my avatar, Lily (left) and Mari are drinking while on the beach which is illegal for public beaches here in Hawaii, that's why the bottles are wrapped up.
> ...



 


Yeah it took me a long time to understand the brown paper bag thing. But broken glass on the beach I can see having issues with. When I turned 18 and went to the US to study it was such a shock to me that I couldn't drink until 21. Really surreal, but not a problem have been sober years on end depending where you are and with whom you are, just my observation was that I knew my limits better than most 21 year olds. 

The US has a different attitude to such things and I was suprised to visit US towns in the bible belt that were completely dry, but just outside of the city limits you had the strip clubs and liquor stores, it just seemed to me an odd way to deal with things. I have friends who are teetotalers and they just sit next to us and not order alcohol, just like a vegetarian not eating meat. Of course there are situations where its best to avoid all encounters for a while with a trigger. Eventually trigger control and knowing yourself IMO is the way to go. I have plenty of problems luckily addictions tend to not be such an issue and I tend to live very healthily and thus tend to not not overdo things as much anymore. But if there were no problems there would be no blues and that would be tragic. People without any problems are always a bit suspect to me. 

Alright my boss isn't contacting me tonight from oversees I guess, time to go to sleep.

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

connieflyer said:


> Man, cannot believe we dressed like these folks, whoa old guy! If you follow the link to the youtube video itself they have all the 60-70's hits, hilarious!  I lived so I can laugh, you youngen's have to earn the old age moniker to laugh!



 


Yeah, but every generation did their crap, gothic, new wave, etc. You earn your stripes and learn to laugh at yourself. Never thought leg warmerrs would ever come back to be fashionable...
WB


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Geetarman... I always thought of you as the guitarman. I'm afraid that song doesn't start the morning well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i am still awaiting arrival of elise ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.   
  
 no, i'm not the guitarman ... that's jeff beck.
  
 in the meantime, my dac is not seeing any use but i use the amp for tv listening via grado hf2  --- i previously hated this thing, but now i've found the perfect use for it ... it is great for listening to tv because it is capable of resolving english dialog which tends to be buried beneath sound effects -- i'm talkin' to you, _masterpiece mysteries_.  otoh, the t1 is not too good in this department (for me) because it resolves 3d soundspace too well (the dialog is often portrayed too realistically deeper within the space ... especially when the actors are further away within a scene). the grado brings voices nice and close to your ear.


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks to those who want me to stay, and also those who don't))) I'm around. Just going to try to stay out of trouble for a change
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And no one offended me))). 
  
 @WB2016:  I always enjoy your posts. You are one smart man!!! And have a wealth of experience.
  
 @DavidA. You are still my hero))) I'm the last person who should criticize anyone for going off topic on this thread!!! Keep up the great stories. We're all envious ))))


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=luB-EUIhsrY [/VIDEO]

The great Diane Shuur...

For the peeps...


----------



## JazzVinyl

[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AUDmx2GRa4M[/VIDEO]

Another for Schuur...

@UntilThen - if you ever come across her stuff on LP...grab it, the sound quality on her LP's is absolutely spell binding...


----------



## DavidA

Look what Lily got from the storage:

  

  


 Now I need to make some space on my listening table.
  
 Damn, I forgot to tell her to bring some albums home, lol
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 getting old, senior moment


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, got to hear Berlin before they became really big, they played at a small club here in Honolulu called the WAVE, one of the best band to play there.  Sadly the WAVE is no more, the space was way to valuable so now a fairly high end condo sits in its place.
  
@WB2016, The drinking age used to be 18 in the US until about 1983 or 1984, this is when the Highways Division of the Fed Gov decided that if the states want Fed money for roads then they had to raise the drinking age to 21.
  
 Now since I have my TT and realized that I forgot to tell Lily to also bring home some albums, there is another thing I forgot, I need to either get one of the 2 pre-amps or get a new one.  I think I'm going with a new compact one like the Mani since it takes up little space.
  
 Anyone here have other suggestions for a phono pre-amp besides the Schiit Mani?
  
 My 2 pre-amps in storage are SAE-P102 and Nakamichi CA-7 so they are a little too large to fit on my listening table along with the TT.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> Look what Lily got from the storage:
> 
> Now I need to make some space on my listening table.
> 
> ...


 
 That Denon seems to be in great shape. Why did you put it in storage? That Shure V15 cartridge too. What model is the Denon? I can't see from the photo. Direct drive I suppose from the looks of it.
  
 Yes you need at least one LP.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks to those who want me to stay, and also those who don't))) I'm around.


 
 I want you to stay. If you ever disappear, I'll have to come to Scottsdale to get you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Another for Schuur...
> 
> @UntilThen - if you ever come across her stuff on LP...grab it, the sound quality on her LP's is absolutely spell binding...


 
  
 Who can resist that purple cover. I love female vocalists. I'll keep a lookout. Sampling her songs now on Spotify.


----------



## DavidA

DP-32F, direct drive, got back in 1982 I think and the V15 type 3 is from 1979, its on its 3rd stylus.
  
 I not only forgot to get at least one album but also a pre-amp, that's why was asking if anyone had a suggestion besides the schiit mani?


----------



## UntilThen

Phono preamp. I love what oshipao has. The Vincent PHO-8. Selling here for AUD$359. Separate power supply. Very rare at this price and very good reviews. Something cheaper perhaps a Cambridge Audio 640P (I think there's a newer model now) or a NAD PP-1. Don't need to spend too much. Or that Schitt Mani.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> My 2 pre-amps in storage are SAE-P102 and Nakamichi CA-7 so they are a little too large to fit on my listening table along with the TT.


 
 I say you use these pre-amps and get a bigger table. They are good stuff. Provided they are still working.


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> I say you use these pre-amps and get a bigger table. They are good stuff.


 
 Yes the SAE P102 and Nakamichi CA-7 are great pre-amps even by todays standard, used ones in good condition are still quite pricy.  Only reason I keep them is I have a SAE X10 amp that matches with the P102 and Nakamichi ZX-7 tape deck


----------



## richdytch

Gosh, this thread moves along doesn't it. I think I'm going to have to book some time off work to try and keep on top of it. 
  
 WB, LD, thanks for your further comments regarding my ground loop. I'll avoid the transformer route... 
  
 And re. alcohol, I decided to stop drinking the stuff 9 months ago, and it's the best thing I've ever done. Like a lot of 40-something middle class brits, I drank far too much but in a totally functional way. I realised that and didn't want to become a statistic of the wrong sort, so quit. I felt the immediate health benefits in the first 3 months, but what I never bargained on was the psychological change that took place from about 7 months onward. I feel like a more complete person. 
  
 Alcohol might be the most popular drug in the world, but it's certainly not a good one IMHO. 
  
 My tube habit has yet to reach the same levels financial commitment, but it's getting close since I got the Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Yes the SAE P102 and Nakamichi CA-7 are great pre-amps even by todays standard, used ones in good condition are still quite pricy.  Only reason I keep them is I have a SAE X10 amp that matches with the P102 and Nakamichi ZX-7 tape deck


 
 SAE and Nakamichi are both great names. Maybe a mini shelf rack is in order for your desk??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With the space I've got on my desktop, if I went vinyl it would have to be something like this:


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, can't go with a shelf, it will block the remote sensors for the HT amp, Blue Ray and cable box.  Here's an old picture of the setup:
  
  

 and one of the current setup

  
 As you can see there is no space on the table and my HT is next to it on the left (can see a portion of it in the upper left across from the BH Crack and Lyr2)


----------



## Lord Raven

David you're in a great audio mess  I still cannot get up and change tubes, too lazy. How do you even get around? Where do you sit?


----------



## JazzVinyl

davida said:


> Can't go with a shelf, it will block the remote sensors for the HT amp, Blue Ray and cable box.
> 
> As you can see there is no space on the table and my HT is next to it on the left (can see a portion of it in the upper left across from the BH Crack and Lyr2)




Space challenged indeed. No room for turntable, preamp or Elise.

Time to think about thinning the herd, a bit.


----------



## UntilThen

David you need to simplify and de-clutter. When you switch off the lights it needs to look romantic. Like this.


----------



## connieflyer

Love the lava lamp!


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Space challenged indeed. No room for turntable, preamp or Elise.
> 
> Time to think about thinning the herd, a bit.


 
 Or getting another table!


----------



## DavidA

jazzvinyl said:


> Space challenged indeed. No room for turntable, preamp or Elise.
> 
> Time to think about thinning the herd, a bit.


 
 That's were the Elise/Heron 5/Zana Deux comes in to replace the Ember and BH Crack and I can move the Bimby under the table since I don't normally change the input.  Plan is to put the UD-301 under the Lyr2 on the right side, next would be the amp from one of the 3, a small phono pre-amp and then the TT.
  
  


lord raven said:


> David you're in a great audio mess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have a recliner love seat next to the table, see below:


----------



## connieflyer

Already too much coffee this morning listening to Pink Floyd 
  

  

  
 Wow got to cut back on the caffeine no I want to get up and move!


----------



## UntilThen

This was my previous layout until I kept one of the monitor. Now I may have to trim down to one monitor so I'll have a clean desk policy.


----------



## Lord Raven

davida said:


> That's were the Elise/Heron 5/Zana Deux comes in to replace the Ember and BH Crack and I can move the Bimby under the table since I don't normally change the input.  Plan is to put the UD-301 under the Lyr2 on the right side, next would be the amp from one of the 3, a small phono pre-amp and then the TT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Still got more space than UT lol   Please invite me over.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sounds like you have a plan, DavidA...good luck in executing it and getting your gear clarified/simplified.

Will also be fun to hear your one on one comparison of Crack Vs Elise, when she arrives.


----------



## UntilThen

I have space. I just need to sit behind the drums and play it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Add some bass to the music.


----------



## DavidA

lord raven said:


> Still got more space than UT lol   Please invite me over.


 
 Anytime you are in Hawaii give me a few days notice and you are most welcome to visit.
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Sounds like you have a plan, DavidA...good luck in executing it and getting your gear clarified/simplified.
> 
> Will also be fun to hear your one on one comparison of Crack Vs Elise, when she arrives.


 
 Having the plan is one thing,,,,,executing it is a whole new game


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I have space. I just need to sit behind the drums and play it.   Add some bass to the music.




LOL I was joking, you have the biggest heart. Space and time is no issue for you. Love you man


----------



## Lord Raven

davida said:


> Anytime you are in Hawaii give me a few days notice and you are most welcome to visit.




I visited UT this January, I'll visit you too, God willing  We can sort out your mess.


----------



## JazzVinyl

davida said:


> Having the plan is one thing,,,,,executing it is a whole new game




Know the feeling, I have gear squirreled away in the attic that I really _should_ have let go


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Dust off the old gear and give it a try - if you feel that you will never use it again, sell it! Discovered that there is a huge interest on eBay for vintage hi fi gear. Check what the market value is, price it accordingly, and it will sell.
  
 Ask yourself (unpleasant and tough question): Who is going to appreciate my old stuff after I am finished here......
  
 None of my children or grandchildren are interested in my stuff, even though a few like music.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Dust off the old gear and give it a try - if you feel that you will never use it again, sell it! Discovered that there is a huge interest on eBay for vintage hi fi gear. Check what the market value is, price it accordingly, and it will sell.
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy...

I have sold off lots of stuff, over the years, too.

And continue to buy used quality 70's / 80's speakers, and repair the surrounds, refresh caps in the crossovers and spruce up the finish with 'restore-a-finish' and re-sell them. 
Have done this for many years.

But the stuff stored away...maybe I will, when I get serious about purging/downsizing. Too busy, still working. 

Did you get your vintage turntables working?


----------



## uncola

DavidA, holy crap I thought I was the only head-fier in hawaii(other than portable gear guys) are you on Oahu?
 I moved away from headphones to speakers but I should be receiving a soekris r2r dac and the ZMF tube headphone amp in about a month to go with my new hd800.  Would love to compare gear


----------



## JazzVinyl

Is there any way to dispatch the Poll message?

Takes up a LOT of real estate...

?


----------



## WB2016

pctazhp said:


> Thanks to those who want me to stay, and also those who don't))) I'm around. Just going to try to stay out of trouble for a change
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Flattery will only get you so far  Glad to hear you'll be here and to hear your much valued input.

Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

richdytch said:


> Gosh, this thread moves along doesn't it. I think I'm going to have to book some time off work to try and keep on top of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah, good for you knowing what is good for you, alcohol is usually in the top 5 of most harmful drugs, the big study in 2010 showed it to be the most harmful overall:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness
But its usually up there as one of the big 4 Heroin, Crack, Alcohol, Meth of "hard drugs" based on soicietal and personal harm. Nowaday alcohol would/should automatically get banned but it has a deep ingrained culture and outlawing alcohol would cause civil unrest and all the issues you found during the prohibition. 

My approach is know how you feel and what is good for you and when the right time for something is and isn't (anymore).

But now we are really getting off topic, this just came to my mind because I had this discussion today regarding cost effectiveness of drug policy, war on drugs vs. benefits with an acountant at university/work who I really considered to be super straight and conservative but who purely on cost -benefit calculations made my jaw drop. This was based on an article in the washington post article 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/31/taxpayers-wasted-billions-on-a-war-on-cocaine-that-didnt-work-economists-say/

I like it when people suprise you who are experts in their field and can bring their insights and share them with you. 

Anyhoo, I tend to drink about once or twice a week depending on company but often take a pause for lent or when its convenient The liver is the most regenratable organ and 4-6 weeks not drinking anything are always good. 

Cheers
WB

Cheers WB


----------



## WB2016

jazzvinyl said:


> Space challenged indeed. No room for turntable, preamp or Elise.
> 
> 
> 
> Time to think about thinning the herd, a bit.



 


I agree and get a bigger table. It will be cost effective.
WB


----------



## WB2016

davida said:


> That's were the Elise/Heron 5/Zana Deux comes in to replace the Ember and BH Crack and I can move the Bimby under the table since I don't normally change the input.  Plan is to put the UD-301 under the Lyr2 on the right side, next would be the amp from one of the 3, a small phono pre-amp and then the TT.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a recliner love seat next to the table, see below:



 


Thin the herd and get a bigger table is probably the best thing to do. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## WB2016

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Yeah its better to make some kid happy than the dust mites, or give it to some other avid collector or audiophile. Had a phase where I collected customer's old gear while I had a house but now moving a lot I sold it all or gave it away. You feel much lighter and your wallet will thank you. 
Cheers
WB


----------



## Oskari

This is not a bloody AA meeting!!!

And where are all the editor buttons again???


----------



## Oskari

They reappeared.


[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/uHdoBVxkqW8[/VIDEO]


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> @oshipao
> this is the Mustang Selby that I bought. Should do the trick. I'll let you know if it's ok when it arrives. It's $20 postage free. :bigsmile_face:




UntilThen Looks good! Let me know how it works out for you. Switching between dac and record player manually when burning in the Elise atm. Need to get one too, but priority is a better phono cable! 

Regarding the volume pot issue - I will have to send it back to Feliks, but on their behalf. Good service


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> This is not a bloody AA meeting!!!
> 
> And where are all the editor buttons again???


 

 Hahahaha ...


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Hahahaha ...


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> @UntilThen Looks good! Let me know how it works out for you. Switching between dac and record player manually when burning in the Elise atm. Need to get one too, but priority is a better phono cable!
> 
> Regarding the volume pot issue - I will have to send it back to Feliks, but on their behalf. Good service


 
 There's a 2 in 1 version but it cost twice as much. No logic right? I got the 4 in 1 so I can play from both my iMac and PC. Audirvana Plus and JRiver. Life gets complicated when you have a choice.
  
 Oh it's a bother having to send it back. At least you can drive to Poland. Imagine if it was me.
  
 I bought this for $7 but shipping cost $15. JV's recommendation. I heard it on Spotify and it sounded good. So I'm awaiting its arrival with anticipation.


----------



## mordy

Hi WB2016,
  
 Moving away from addictions  and back to music:


----------



## DavidA

Just love all the music suggestions, thanks to all of you here.  Listened to things I would not normally listen to and love those old favorites.


----------



## Lord Raven

mordy said:


> Hi WB2016,
> 
> Moving away from addictions  and back to music:




 Awesome mordy!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

WOW Guys, check this amazing offer, give your old headphones to get LCD X or XC. Too bad, it is only happening in USA and Canada.
  
 http://www.audeze.com/lcd-promotion


----------



## DavidA

lord raven said:


> WOW Guys, check this amazing offer, give your old headphones to get LCD X or XC. Too bad, it is only happening in USA and Canada.
> 
> http://www.audeze.com/lcd-promotion


 
 Did you look at the prices they give for the various used headphones?  $325 for a HD-650, I only paid $290, $275 for HE-400, paid $250 for mine, and $400 for HE-400i, they were on sale for $300 at the end of last year.


----------



## Lord Raven

davida said:


> Did you look at the prices they give for the various used headphones?  $325 for a HD-650, I only paid $290, $275 for HE-400, paid $250 for mine, and $400 for HE-400i, they were on sale for $300 at the end of last year.


 
 Hehe I know it is not worth it  Just saying it, someone might like it.


----------



## Lord Raven

His voice sends shivers down your spine  Tonight's playlist is a rare DSD of the King!
  
 Usual suspects, EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G working their magic through my HD600!


----------



## tonykaz

The "perfect" turntable,
  
 Hmm,  Linn LP-12 is still out there after all these years.   I sold scads of them back in the 1980s.  Cost then was about $1,000, now it's well over $10,000.  
  
 I'd own one today, for nostalgia sake.  I'd own a VPI for music reproduction ( which I also Sold scads of ).  
  
 The Linn is dreadful on wooden floors, maybe worse but it's a nice looking machine, very tidy, very light in wt. ( which it needs to be for shipping reasons, the VPI is massive ).
  
 As a storage medium, Vinyl is compromised.   A while back an old audiophile friend and I reviewed some Rossini CD re-releases of recordings we both have or had in Vinyl. The new/old CDs were consistently better musically, of course we both own modern DACs and better (or much better) sound reproduction transducers and amplification. Still, we could now hear backgrounds and ultra low frequencies that the Vinyl gear completely masked.  The CDs sound "real" by comparison. 
  
 I can understand some folks buying record players, there are zillions of Vinyl records out there, guys like me with a few thousand are moving on to Oakwood Cemetary, the grannies are selling off all our stuff and collectors are buying up huge collections ( on the cheap ). i.e. Todd the Vinyl Junkie has 12,000 Vinyls. 
  
 Still, Record Player sales are dismally low.    
  
 Headphone is now an 8 Billion market ( USA ).  
  
 Car Audio ( OEM ) is close to  20 Billion dollars ( USA ) 
  
 iPhone sales are gigantic and dominate the Music Industry.  
  
 I closed down my Esoteric Audio ( an Analog/Vinyl Shop ) in 1985 when Digital arrived, Vinyl died then and remains dead as a viable format but it lives on in the hearts of us old-timers.
  
 Watching this LINN LP-12 video brings back memories, I was "in the Game" when this table was the "Hot Item", I was buying Air Containers of them and selling them hand over fist.  Koetsu Rosewood was "the" Cartridge.  Ahhhhh, those were the days!
  
 Annnnnnnnnd, Connieflyer has moved on to a Polish Amplifier that I've been watching ( along with the Valhalla 2 ).  You seem to be moving fast, HD800, this new Amp. Hmm.
  
 Wishing you well,
  
 Tony in Michigan  ( California )
  
 ps. I should be done with all this Bernie stuff by November ( fingers crossed ), Venice Florida is calling me!


----------



## Lord Raven

Everyone digs Bill Evans, DSD music coming through the most neutral headphones ever, I was just reading about HD600, I am surprised!


----------



## Lord Raven

One more DSD and then I goto sleep, I promise to myself


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,
  
 Glad you like the Memphis Jug Band. Here is a recording with an instrument that may be new to you - the Cheek-O-Phone  (at 2:21):
  
 The bass is provided by blowing into an empty whiskey jug - hence the name Jug Band.


----------



## pctazhp

tonykaz said:


> Annnnnnnnnd, Connieflyer has moved on to a Polish Amplifier that I've been watching ( along with the Valhalla 2 ).  You seem to be moving fast, HD800, this new Amp. Hmm.


 
 Tony:  You might want to check out my post 8804 on this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8790#post_12438273
  
 I can make you a hot deal on a pristine Valhall 2


----------



## connieflyer

Hi Tony, long time you have been away, moved on to the Elise and love it.  I have been through the 650,700, and now 800 and now have a combo I really enjoy. Had the Beyer T1 ver 1 until the left driver started to go, went to the 800 and am staying with this. Running a pair of EL3n's as drivers and a pair of 6sn7 and 6bl7's as powers as suggested by @UntilThen and really like the soundstage gain. Had been running the 6 EL3N's and liked that very much. Have not heard the Valhalla 2 (or 1 for that matter), but pctazhp is a stand up guy, so I am sure he would do you well.  The Ember was a nice sounding toy compared to the Elise. Good luck getting to Florida, we are probably in for a nasty winter here.


----------



## mordy

Maybe you already have seen this music video - it has 14.5 million hits. Anyhow, stumbled upon it and really enjoyed watching it, especially the expressions on the faces of children and adults alike.
  

  
 Like hearing the Elise the first time, eh?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Maybe you already have seen this music video - it has 14.5 million hits. Anyhow, stumbled upon it and really enjoyed watching it, especially the expressions on the faces of children and adults alike.




Had not seen it.

Exceptionally well produced. The multiple camera angles, professional editing and fine camera work All combine to connect to human emotions and sensibilities. 

Some tall money was spent to produce this fine video.

Thanks, Mordy...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Dave Holland Quintet. - How's Never



[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1VIbyWX_k5c[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is another lovely album, if you can find it:



[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5UakkdXm80Y [/VIDEO]



Cheers, all....


----------



## richdytch

lord raven said:


> Everyone digs Bill Evans, DSD music coming through the most neutral headphones ever, I was just reading about HD600, I am surprised!


 
  
 I love that album. One of my most listened to, along with Sunday at the Village Vanguard (I'm obsessed with the Vanguard's acoustic), Waltz for Debby, Moonbeams, Portrait in Jazz and New Jazz Conception. Love Bill Evans full stop. 
  
 I don't have the HD600 but have its near equivalent the 580... I do end up listening to that headphone an awful lot. It likes the Elise, for sure. 
  
 Right now, I have on Kenny Burrell's eponymous 1957 album. It's great, straight-down-the-line bop. Running the Elise with the stock Russian power tubes and some 1954 RCA bottom getter 6SN7 drivers that I found for very little money when I was still using the Little Dot. Sounding really very nice, works well with the jazz. 
  
 Think I'm going to save my EL3Ns 'for best'... at least until I get a backup pair. 
  
 Rich


----------



## UntilThen

I bought George Benson 'Gimme the Night' LP for $5 today. Near mint. That's value.


----------



## lukeap69

I have been fascinated by the tube rolling adventures of many Elise owners and excellent findings. Don't you think it's time to ask Lukas to build an amp that can accept more tubes i.e. EL3N + 6BL7's? With so many great pairings discovered in this thread, I'm sure Lukas will not run out of input. 
  
 What do you think?


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I bought George Benson 'Gimme the Night' LP for $5 today. Near mint. That's value.




Study it carefully, there is a lot of fine musicianship on that LP


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 Cannot remember using up any tubes - the only ones that are finished are the 2-3 tubes I dropped by accident over the the years. (Still keeping the skeleton of a Chatham 6AS7G as a reminder lol).
  
 The EL3N is rated for 10,000 hours (and probably will last longer than that). IMHO just use them and enjoy them. My favorite setup as of now is 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 as power tubes plus 2 6BL7. This combination gives me refinement, , linearity, detail and bass punch/treble sizzle  and everything in between. Totally non-fatiguing and constantly hearing new things in old familiar recordings. In sum: Addictive.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> Cannot remember using up any tubes - the only ones that are finished are the 2-3 tubes I dropped by accident over the the years. (Still keeping the skeleton of a Chatham 6AS7G as a reminder lol).
> 
> The EL3N is rated for 10,000 hours (and probably will last longer than that). IMHO just use them and enjoy them. My favorite setup as of now is 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 as power tubes plus 2 6BL7. This combination gives me refinement, , linearity, detail and bass punch/treble sizzle  and everything in between. Totally non-fatiguing and constantly hearing new things in old familiar recordings. In sum: Addictive.


 
 Do you need an additional power supply for that set-up?


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 Yes.
  
 6x EL3N is 0.9A x 6 = 5,4A. 2 x 6BL7 is 2 x 1.5A = 3A. The total current draw is 8.4A which exceeds the 6.8A recommended by Feliks Audio.
  
 I use a 6 x octal adapter which is powered externally - the drivers run off Elise power.
  
 In this scenario it would be possible to power 4 EL3N and 2 6BL7 drawing 6.6A from the Elise, using triple octal adapters without power leads (provided that the spacing of the sockets permit 2 EL3N and one 6BL7 on the triple adapter) and then power the drivers externally.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> Yes.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks mordy, I see how it works now.
 This is the adapter, I presume especially made to fit the Elise?
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690?hash=item2ca8ed3fda:g:FEYAAOSwG-1WzSQL


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> Cannot remember using up any tubes - the only ones that are finished are the 2-3 tubes I dropped by accident over the the years. (Still keeping the skeleton of a Chatham 6AS7G as a reminder lol).
> 
> The EL3N is rated for 10,000 hours (and probably will last longer than that). IMHO just use them and enjoy them. My favorite setup as of now is 2 EL3N as drivers and 4 as power tubes plus 2 6BL7. This combination gives me refinement, , linearity, detail and bass punch/treble sizzle  and everything in between. Totally non-fatiguing and constantly hearing new things in old familiar recordings. In sum: Addictive.


 
 Hi Mordy... very true - 10k hours is a lot, especially when you're only looking at a few hours a day. 
  
 I do tend to use 6SN7GT etc in the day, when I'm working and paying relatively little attention to the music. There is something special about putting the EL3Ns back in come the evening, and sitting back to enjoy their rich sumptuousness. 

 I'm going to run with this setup for quite some time I think, before I look into multiple power tube arrangements with transformers... Rich.


----------



## mordy

Hi H13,
  
 That's the one. It is custom made for the Elise - all you do is push it into the power sockets. It will protrude about 1" outside the chassis on each side.
  
 The 7&8 octal heater pins in the adapter are disconnected from the Elise. The two sets of power leads that come out in the middle of the 6x adapter have to be connected to an external voltage source to heat the filaments in the tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Friday Blues:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHOC5XACJY[/VIDEO]


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. Connieflyer,
  
 I wonder if all the Elise owners were once Garage 1217 owners?   Hmm.
  
 Can you reveal your serial number?  I'm thinking these things are hand made by some dedicated audiophile constructor type which would make them a Gem kinda Amp.  Kinda reminds me of the Early days of Audio Research and Bill Z Johnson's creations before he went mass-market.  
  
 The Schiit Valhalla 2 is also a 4 twin-triode device but with a much "less-powerful" power supply ( I think it can only handle the heaters of miniature tubes ) which ( of course ) limits it's rolling possibilities.  
  
 Is the Elise builder one of the people here on Head-fi ?   
  
 I just saw Howie in Scotland posting here, geez, is he an Elise owner too?  
  
 Hafta agree on the HD800,  easily the finest transducer system I've ever experienced, from the HD800 a person can go sideways but not up, nothing is better! 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi H13,
> 
> That's the one. It is custom made for the Elise - all you do is push it into the power sockets. It will protrude about 1" outside the chassis on each side.
> 
> The 7&8 octal heater pins in the adapter are disconnected from the Elise. The two sets of power leads that come out in the middle of the 6x adapter have to be connected to an external voltage source to heat the filaments in the tubes.


 
 That will keep me busy for a long time to come.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Just one final question as I'm not electronically adept, can you give me a link to a suitable power supply or the type of supply you would advise?


----------



## HOWIE13

tonykaz said:


> Mr. Connieflyer,
> 
> I wonder if all the Elise owners were once Garage 1217 owners?   Hmm.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Tonykaz
  
 Well I'm an embryonic Elise owner, waiting patiently for my number to come up. Hopefully should be dispatched in two or three weeks' time.
 Meanwhile I'm learning about lots of new tubes, and it's costing!


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, I just ordered Beyerdynamic T1 Tesla headphones, I am so glad to be your T1 brother  Thank you very much who helped me during all this course, HD600 now T1, the journey has just begun. Special thanks to @UntilThen for letting me listen to his T1, and all the other T1 owners to keep pushing me for it. I am sure this is the headphones I will die with LOL


----------



## JazzVinyl

Congrats, LR!!! T1 v1 gonna take over the whole world  

Don't sell the SENN's 

Feels like rain!


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QButLzJB5SI[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

Keep The Music Simple:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPApCthbv0E[/VIDEO]


----------



## Lord Raven

richdytch said:


> I love that album. One of my most listened to, along with Sunday at the Village Vanguard (I'm obsessed with the Vanguard's acoustic), Waltz for Debby, Moonbeams, Portrait in Jazz and New Jazz Conception. Love Bill Evans full stop.
> 
> I don't have the HD600 but have its near equivalent the 580... I do end up listening to that headphone an awful lot. It likes the Elise, for sure.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Rich,
  
 I am a big fan of Bill Evans, have a huge collection of his music in different resolutions. This was the highest I could afford, a DSD. I have a CD of Sunday at Village Vanguard, I will look for high res for this one.I have all the albums you mentioned, either from HDTracks or DSD. Portrait in Jazz and Exploration are DSD, highly regarded albums. Let me know if I am missing something.
  
 Empathy 1962 HDTracks 24-96
 Autumn Leaves CD
 New Conversations 2011 HDTracks 192-24
 We Will Meet Again 2011 HDTracks 192-24
 Waltz for Debby (1961) HDtracks 96-24
 Shelly Manne & Bill Evans - Empathy 1962
 Everybody Digs Bill Evans (1958)
 New Jazz Conceptions (1956)
 The Bill Evans Album (1971)
 Interplay (1962)
 Bill Evans The Unknown Sessions
 Moon Beams (1962)
  
 I don't have that Kenny Burrell's album, only Midnight Blues CD, Kenny Burrell - For Charlie Christian And Benny Goodman (1991) CD, Kenny Burrell And John Coltrane - Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane 1958 24-192.
  
 Talk to Peter in Netherlands, he has the best price and best quality EL3N atm.
  
 Best Regards
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

lukeap69 said:


> I have been fascinated by the tube rolling adventures of many Elise owners and excellent findings. Don't you think it's time to ask Lukas to build an amp that can accept more tubes i.e. EL3N + 6BL7's? With so many great pairings discovered in this thread, I'm sure Lukas will not run out of input.
> 
> What do you think?


 
 Hey L,
  
 I wish they stick to the current configuration, otherwise I will lose another 1000 USD LOL
  
 However, if they make an amp with EL3N and bigger transformer to heat more tubes, and ad the balanced output features, I am going to take it 
  
 Best Regards
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

Hello Mordy,
  
 Awesome jug music, but I don't know how to stream it through my DAC  I am listening through my laptop speakers, some music does not require high end setup, I am sure.
  
 Keep it coming, I love discovering new music.
  
 Best Regards
 LR
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> Hi LR,
> 
> Glad you like the Memphis Jug Band. Here is a recording with an instrument that may be new to you - the Cheek-O-Phone  (at 2:21):
> 
> The bass is provided by blowing into an empty whiskey jug - hence the name Jug Band.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Guys, I just ordered Beyerdynamic T1 Tesla headphones, I am so glad to be your T1 brother  Thank you very much who helped me during all this course, HD600 now T1, the journey has just begun. Special thanks to @UntilThen for letting me listen to his T1, and all the other T1 owners to keep pushing me for it. I am sure this is the headphones I will die with LOL


 
 Congratulations! So excited for you!


----------



## Suuup

Got my first 3 records today. 

  
 Getting a lot of plops and crackles, must be doing something wrong. Did the whole arm balancing and adding the antiskid weight. Hmm. 
  
  
 Looking forward to receiving my capacitors and stuff to make 6V -> 12V adapters. Will be able to run FDD20 and 1626 without external power supply!


----------



## lukeap69

lord raven said:


> Hey L,
> 
> I wish they stick to the current configuration, otherwise I will lose another 1000 USD LOL
> 
> ...


 
 You will be the first customer then LR!


----------



## richdytch

Hi @Lord Raven
  
 The only two Bill Evans albums I have which I listen to regularly and don't seem to be on your list are: How my Heart Sings! and Interplay. Both of them wonderful. 
  
 I'll keep an eye out for Peter in the Netherlands.... is that his forum name? 
  
 Cheers, 
  
 Rich.


----------



## richdytch

@Lord Raven ... oh, and also, if you want to check out the earliest recording to feature Bill Evans that's commonly available, check out George Russell's jazz workshop. Great album, and Bill shines through. 
  
 Rich


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> That is it.
> For the caps use 1000uf 10 volt you can get them small enough to fit everything into a large tube base.
> 
> Also you can build a voltage quadrupler with 4 diodes and 4 caps and get 25.2 volts and use the Brimmer 13D1 and the USA  1633.
> And who knows what crazy tubes you guys can come up with.


 
 Just looked up the 13D1 -- It's a diode?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Study it carefully, there is a lot of fine musicianship on that LP


 

 Read the inner sleeve notes. Quincy Jones, the producer heap praises on George's talents in singing besides guitar playing.
  
 You're right. a long list of musicians appearing on this album.
  
 John Robinson, Paulinho da Costa, Louis Johnson, David Foster, Herbie Hancock, Richard Tee, George Duke, Lee Ritenour, UntilThen.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Got my first 3 records today.
> 
> 
> Getting a lot of plops and crackles, must be doing something wrong. Did the whole arm balancing and adding the antiskid weight. Hmm.


 
 You've their 3 albums which I didn't have. I have Dire Straits, Communique and Making Movies. Together we almost have their complete albums but I like Alchemy.
  
 Get a Carbon Antistatic brush and clean the LP before playing.


----------



## UntilThen

tonykaz said:


> Mr. Connieflyer,
> 
> I wonder if all the Elise owners were once Garage 1217 owners?   Hmm.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Tony,
  
 Elise is indeed hand made by Henryk, the creator himself, with the help from the rest of the Feliks Audio team, which is basically the family. They do not participate on the thread but Lukasz told me they keep tap of what's going on here. I'm not sure about lately or I'm sure they'll be influenced by us and start spinning LPs. 
  
 Check out their website. 
 http://www.feliksaudio.pl
  
 Cheers,
 UT


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Guys, I just ordered Beyerdynamic T1 Tesla headphones, I am so glad to be your T1 brother  Thank you very much who helped me during all this course, HD600 now T1, the journey has just begun. Special thanks to @UntilThen for letting me listen to his T1, and all the other T1 owners to keep pushing me for it. I am sure this is the headphones I will die with LOL


 

 Finally !!! You keep asking me about T1, T2 or HD800, I'm about to recommend you T3. !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

The Blues don't care:




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cb9P3giO3c[/VIDEO]




HA! 
Some of us have been spinning vinyl for a number of decades


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> I'll keep an eye out for Peter in the Netherlands.... is that his forum name?


 
 Peter is a seller, not a forum member. 
  
 Email him for the EL3N. You'll find EL3N under Tubes & Co - New Old Stock tubes.
  
 This is the website and email is in there. http://www.acoustic-dimension.com


----------



## UntilThen

Lionel Richie for $8. Almost new. Amaaazing !
  
 There's only one way to listen to this. All night long.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Lionel Richie for $8. Almost new. Amaaazing !
> 
> There's only one way to listen to this. All night long.




Found yourself a nice, local used record store, did ya?


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Found yourself a nice, local used record store, did ya?


 
 Yup you help me to spend money by giving me the links to these brick and mortar shops. So I paid BeatDisc in Sydney a visit yesterday. It's quite an experience. Love it. New and used LPs.


----------



## UntilThen

Bonnie Tyler for $8 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't believe how nearly mint these albums are. Total absence of pops and crackles.
  
 Faster Than the Speed of Night album. Love revisiting the 70s and 80s. I was in my 20s then. !!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Yup you help me to spend money by giving me the links to these brick and mortar shops. So I paid BeatDisc in Sydney a visit yesterday. It's quite an experience. Love it. New and used LPs.




Don't forget thrift stores...have to dig through thousands of Jim Nabors, Herb Alpert etc, LP's to find some jewels at super bargain prices


----------



## JazzVinyl

I also have a phone app that starts chriping, when I am near a used vinyl store, at home, or away 

*C~R~A~Z~Y!*


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> I also have a phone app that starts chriping, when I am near a used vinyl store, at home, or away
> 
> *C~R~A~Z~Y!*


 
  
 Hahaha I can't have that app. It will drain my wallet.


----------



## UntilThen

The 4th LP I bought is a new copy of Prince album 'Purple Rain' at $28 which is still reasonable. So new I can't hear a pop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Beautiful cover and inner sleeve notes.


----------



## Lord Raven

Thank you @Suuup  Wish me luck, it will take 5-10 days for T1 to get to my place, long weight. It is with Beyer America atm.
  
 Quote:


suuup said:


> Congratulations! So excited for you!


 
  
 Thanks Arnold, I think Elise without adapters would be so special, best connection is no connectors 
  


lukeap69 said:


> You will be the first customer then LR!


 
  
 LOL man, I know, I made a hard decision, HD600 is few months old and I brought a new TOTL in house, it was damn hard decision for me, for you it is a piece of cake. Let's start saving for T3 from today haha @UntilThen
  


untilthen said:


> Finally !!! You keep asking me about T1, T2 or HD800, I'm about to recommend you T3. !!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Rich,
  
 I have the Interplay album, I mentioned it above there.  I will be on the Heart Sings album now.
  
 Here is the email address, write to Peter and you will get your backup pair at the best price in the market.
  
 Acoustic-Dimension-sales <sales@acoustic-dimension.com>
  
 Hmm, can you specify the name of that album George Russell's jazz workshop?
  
 LR
  
 Quote:


richdytch said:


> Hi @Lord Raven
> 
> The only two Bill Evans albums I have which I listen to regularly and don't seem to be on your list are: How my Heart Sings! and Interplay. Both of them wonderful.
> 
> ...


 


richdytch said:


> @Lord Raven ... oh, and also, if you want to check out the earliest recording to feature Bill Evans that's commonly available, check out George Russell's jazz workshop. Great album, and Bill shines through.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Lord Raven

Thank you JV, awesome music being shared, most of the music I am not familiar with but it feels so good to discover music through your friends and introducing others to it.
  
 Sennheiser are going to stay, I can say I have an inventory of headphones in that case  I am going to rule the world with T1, I will let others audition these and blow their minds away.
  
 It is raining on me hehe..
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> Congrats, LR!!! T1 v1 gonna take over the whole world
> 
> Don't sell the SENN's
> 
> Feels like rain!


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Lionel Richie for $8. Almost new. Amaaazing !
> 
> There's only one way to listen to this. All night long.




Good call UT,

But you need to "NOT" hear this 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KOG46EHXKkw


----------



## Lord Raven

Tonight's playlist is awesome, this is a treasure I stumbled upon, thanks to my friends who are suggesting great albums to acquire  I wish I could share the YouTube links but it does not work for me, my DAC has a thing for low res, it hates it lol
  
 The Byrds - Mr. Tambourine Man 1965 (2005 MFSL Remaster SACD-R)


----------



## oshipao

I am continuing todays theme.

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sj_DQrHQkfI[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Good call UT,
> 
> But you need to "NOT" hear this
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KOG46EHXKkw


 
 But you need to hear this.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> But you need to hear this.




Will listen later. Going all analog now and can't take the headphones off of me


----------



## Lord Raven

WOW, mind blowing blues tonight..  I am wondering how would it sound with T1, I have to revisit all my music collection hehe


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> WOW, mind blowing blues tonight..  I am wondering how would it sound with T1, I have to revisit all my music collection hehe




Wow LR, you have some serious GREAT music in your collections!

I am Jealous!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Continuing on the Blues theme...

Savoy Brown...have seen them many times, all my LP's and CD's are signed by the boys 



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyw-dfXRhks[/VIDEO]


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow LR, you have some serious GREAT music in your collections!
> 
> I am Jealous!!


 
 Thank you JV, the collection consists of a huge Jazz lineup. I got some 11 TB of space  And some 5 TB in the cloud.. LOL
  
 You should be hehe, I am trying to make UT jealous


----------



## JazzVinyl

Just came across this guy:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXriqyKQlk[/VIDEO]



Ray LaMontagne, new album is called "Ouroboros"


----------



## Lord Raven

One from my side


----------



## Lord Raven

MusicDirect has the Rega - RP3 turntable (White) with Elys 2 cartridge **DEMO** for $699 
  
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-67715-rega-rp3-turntable-with-elys-2-cartridge-white-demo.aspx


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Continuing on the Blues theme...
> 
> Savoy Brown...have seen them many times, all my LP's and CD's are signed by the boys


 
 This was amazing


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> One from my side




The singing gum, was a surprise 

Like the Sax...




.


----------



## Lord Raven

Treasure  1000 posts, I am on fire!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> The singing gum, was a surprise
> 
> Like the Sax...
> 
> ...


 
 LOL That movie is highly regarded. I haven't seen it yet, I will see it next. Those girls need company 
  
 Keep them recommendations coming JV


----------



## richdytch

@Lord Raven

Whoops, sorry, I missed Interplay on your list there! Also supposed to be worth checking out, is the recently discovered 'lost session' called Some Other Time. I've not heard it yet though.It's only just come out...

The George Russell album is this one, although it was released with quite a few different covers... https://www.discogs.com/George-Russell-The-Jazz-Workshop/release/2579005

And thanks for passing on Peter's email, I'll get in touch with him. Many thanks.

Rich.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> MusicDirect has the Rega - RP3 turntable (White) with Elys 2 cartridge **DEMO** for $699
> 
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-67715-rega-rp3-turntable-with-elys-2-cartridge-white-demo.aspx


 
 The price of an Elise. That is all the turntable you'll need.
  
 You've a very new ECC31. !!!
  
 Good to see all the songs shared. It shows you're enjoying your Elise.


----------



## HOWIE13

PLEASE could someone describe or post a link to the sort of external power supply you are using for the multiple tube set ups with Elise.
 Trawling through power supplies on eBay and Mouser is totally bewildering to me. 'Googling' yields next to no comprehensible information either.
 I presume it needs to be 6.3V and 10-15A output to be used with Mrs Xuling's special 6 socket adapter but I can't find any.
 Sorry to ask what I expect is a very simple question to most people on this thread. Thanks for any help.
  
 Is this the sort of thing I need?
  
 http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Hammond/265V6/?qs=%2fha2pyFadughgVvT%252bLB1TeWAcoGZ80j3FYRiA0vcHwnlKR10yqKrxA%3d%3d


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> PLEASE could someone describe or post a link to the sort of external power supply you are using for the multiple tube set ups with Elise.
> Trawling through power supplies on eBay and Mouser is totally bewildering to me. 'Googling' yields next to no comprehensible information either.
> I presume it needs to be 6.3V and 10-15A output to be used with Mrs Xuling's special 6 socket adapter but I can't find any.
> Sorry to ask what I expect is a very simple question to most people on this thread. Thanks for any help.
> ...




Hammond 265V6 (https://www.hammfg.com/electronics/transformers/power/265). Yes, that should work.


----------



## Oskari

suuup said:


> Just looked up the 13D1 -- It's a diode?




Brimar 13D1, a double triode:



 http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/13d1.pdf
 http://www.tubecollector.org/cv423.htm


----------



## 2359glenn

howie13 said:


> PLEASE could someone describe or post a link to the sort of external power supply you are using for the multiple tube set ups with Elise.
> Trawling through power supplies on eBay and Mouser is totally bewildering to me. 'Googling' yields next to no comprehensible information either.
> I presume it needs to be 6.3V and 10-15A output to be used with Mrs Xuling's special 6 socket adapter but I can't find any.
> Sorry to ask what I expect is a very simple question to most people on this thread. Thanks for any help.
> ...


 

 Yes that is perfect


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Treasure  1000 posts, I am on fire!!!


 
 That is one BEAUTIFUL ECC31!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> That is one BEAUTIFUL ECC31!




Agree!

Remarkable like new condition!


----------



## HOWIE13

Thanks Oskari and 2359glenn for advising me about the power supply. Appreciate your help.


----------



## Lord Raven

richdytch said:


> @Lord Raven
> 
> Whoops, sorry, I missed Interplay on your list there! Also supposed to be worth checking out, is the recently discovered 'lost session' called Some Other Time. I've not heard it yet though.It's only just come out...
> 
> ...


 
 Hi @richdytch 
  
 I am going to check these albums out, I am on it. You are welcome, the guy is very helpful and has best quality stuff, all of us bought from him and the tube was originally made in Holland. You cannot beat that quality 
  
 I found "Living Time", couldn't find the "Some Other Time".
  
 I am posting my albums here on a regular basis, it is a great hobby to collect music and tubes 
  
 Best Regards
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> The price of an Elise. That is all the turntable you'll need.
> 
> You've a very new ECC31. !!!
> 
> Good to see all the songs shared. It shows you're enjoying your Elise.


 
  
 Hi UT,
  
 Looks like you are keeping an eye on my collection, indeed, I am loving Elise, from day one. It has become a part of me.
  
 ECC31 tubes are amazing sounding, you just need to give them some time, the Jazz music sounds so lively through them. I absolutely recommend it for blues 
  
 Best Regards
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> That is one BEAUTIFUL ECC31!


 
  
 This is my prized possession  I think I should frame my tubes just like UT did, I am scared to handle them after I broke one Mazda 6N7G Joy Bringer LOL Thank you Suuup!


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Agree!
> 
> Remarkable like new condition!


 
 Get ready for my next recommendation  My music collection is even more tempting hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 This album is fantastic, and I can easily say that HD600 has never sounded this open and wide ever. There is detail, and it is resolving it well. This is magic, EL3N + 5998!
  
 Antonio Carlos Jobim - The Composer Of Desafinado Plays (1963) SACD (2011 SHM-SACD ISO)
  
 Life is good!


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Looks like you are keeping an eye on my collection, indeed, I am loving Elise, from day one. It has become a part of me.
> 
> ...




I found LR's African drum suggestion (OLATUNJI! - DRUMS OF PASSION) at the used LP store today, for $1.00, plays like new on the Colombia red label) have it on now, sounds great!

Your ECC31 picture also inspired me to put my pair back in the drivers' seat and am using 2x 6N7G's per side as powers and it's super SMOOOOOTH and great sounding!

We truly are the* LUCKY ONES* to have such a great many tube combos that sound so great in this amp.

I was awe struck at how wonderful that tube combo sounded on this tune from, 1973:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOwgT6N11E[/VIDEO]


Cheers to all the *LUCKY ONES*.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> This album is fantastic, and I can easily say that HD600 has never sounded this open and wide ever. There is detail, and it is resolving it well. This is magic, EL3N + 5998!
> 
> ...




Indeed Jobim is the REAL DEAL, what a fantastic talent!!! Love all his stuff, a genius, walking among us mortals 

I have an album dedicated to him by other great musicians,,,,and absolutely love it, too...here is a sample:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrw24zKVuLE[/VIDEO]



Cheers again to all the *LUCKY ONES*...


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi JV,
  
 Just one dollar for Drums of Passion?  WOW I hope you loved it. Silky smooth sound of ECC31 is alluring.
  
 I am listening to the shared music, it is absolutely wonderful, plus the animation, wow! 
  
 I am on to George Russell next 
  
  
  
 Quote:


jazzvinyl said:


> I found LR's African drum suggestion (OLATUNJI! - DRUMS OF PASSION) at the used LP store today, for $1.00, plays like new on the Colombia red label) have it on now, sounds great!
> 
> Your ECC31 picture also inspired me to put my pair back in the drivers' seat and am using 2x 6N7G's per side as powers and it's super SMOOOOOTH and great sounding!
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Indeed Jobim is the REAL DEAL, what a fantastic talent!!! Love all his stuff, a genius, walking among us mortals
> 
> I have an album dedicated to him by other great musicians,,,,and absolutely love it, too...here is a sample:
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven

George Russell - Living Time with Bill Evans, is an amazing album. Thanks Rich for your recommendation.
  

  
 Next up in the playlist is, George Russell - Jazz Workshop


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, dig the African Drums record for a buck  
I was in a Drum Circle years ago...will have to see if they are still active,


Also bought George Benson 2 LP set "Weekend in LA" for $1.00 - also plays like new.

But, one LP has a *label error*...here is one side of the LP's label (correct):




and...here is the label from the *OTHER SIDE* of the same LP:




The music is correct, it's George Benson but he label says "*Grateful Dead*"!!

You always use this site to determine which vinyl pressing you have:

https://www.discogs.com/George-Benson-Weekend-In-LA/release/1249697

In my case, they say: *2WB 3139*

Which discogs.com revealed was "*Made in France in 1978*" 

So the label error occurred in the French Warner Bros records, plant...


*
Cheers, LUCKY Peeps...*






.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> George Russell - Living Time with Bill Evans, is an amazing album. Thanks Rich for your recommendation.




Wow! That is a cool album cover and I don't believe I have ever seen it before.

discogs says it's "* Fusion, Big Band, Free Jazz *"

I would love to hear it!

What a great one!


----------



## JazzVinyl

RIP Muhammad Ali (still known as Cassius Clay when this photo was made):







:rolleyes:


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello folks, just popping my head in here in the midst of endless projects that have still been keeping me away.
  
@oshipao I was curious of your take on the Elise - anything more on the comparison to the Bottlehead besides the dynamics?
  
@HOWIE13 please make sure to mention me (as I'm doing here) when you get your Elise so I can know how it works out for you


----------



## JazzVinyl

It was quite warm outside today...

So, bring you "Heart (Summer Song)" by John Klemmer...circa 1980:


[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_lsexvk9fpI [/VIDEO]






.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Can you believe this:




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heIGbOA6Ykw[/VIDEO]



11 years old in 2015!!!

Bill E reincarnated?


----------



## pctazhp

For a little balance


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> For a little balance




I have the original 3 LP set (Vol 1)..love it, has with stood the test of time, very well..also have the 3 LP set "The Last Waltz" that you probably had, back in the day...

And just played the first Maria Maldaur LP...she was big in the folk scene, as I am sure you know.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Radio said it was crushingly warm today in AZ...headed for 118 degrees in Tucson....ugh, that's hot.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is something I ran across today and was surprised how good it was...Ginger Baker:



[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PphC5h10Q_A [/VIDEO]


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Radio said it was crushingly warm today in AZ...headed for 118 degrees in Tucson....ugh, that's hot.


 
 About the same here, I am surprised to know  50 C is normal here, 122 F


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is something I ran across today and was surprised how good it was...Ginger Baker:


 
 This is actually very cool


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Radio said it was crushingly warm today in AZ...headed for 118 degrees in Tucson....ugh, that's hot.


 
 It is absolutely horrible. Good luck, and be careful. This heat can be really dangerous. Good luck


----------



## Lord Raven

I am watching Mohammad Ali on YouTube, he visited Pakistan (my home country) in 1982 and Mecca in 1972. His fights are amazing, I don't think someone with that kind of personality will ever step into the ring again. Legendary boxer, best of his quotes, "Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee". I am in total awe. Rest in peace, fighter!


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> I am watching Mohammad Ali on YouTube, he visited Pakistan (my home country) in 1982 and Mecca in 1972. His fights are amazing, I don't think someone with that kind of personality will ever step into the ring again. Legendary boxer, best of his quotes, "Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee". I am in total awe. Rest in peace, fighter!


 
 He was hospitalized here in Scottsdale when he passed away. I lived through his entire boxing career. Very hard to realize he is gone. He was bigger than life.


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> He was hospitalized here in Scottsdale when he passed away. I lived through his entire boxing career. Very hard to realize he is gone. He was bigger than life.


 
 That is amazing. I just read this, and it is truly inspiration.
  
*When asked how he’d like to be remembered, Mohammad ali gave an answer that is pure Ali, touching, charming and funny in equal measure:*

   

  


> _ I would like to be remembered as a man who won the heavyweight title three times.
> 
> Who was humorous and who treated everyone right.
> 
> ...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Lionel Richie for $8. Almost new. Amaaazing !
> 
> There's only one way to listen to this. All night long.


 
 UT:  A while back I posted the video of Lionel Richie and Shania Twain singing "Endless Love". If you are a Lionel Richie fan and have the time, you might enjoy this video of the background story behind the "Endless Love" video. I think it is a fascinating interplay between two absolutely amazing artists.


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,
  
 Huddie Leadbetter (Leadbelly) was one of the most powerful blues singers. Here is a rare early color movie from 1945 - the sound and picture quality is not the best, but great performance.
  

  
 In the 60's a dixieland and skiffle wave swept though Europe. Most of the music was copied from American folk music. Here is a British version with Lonnie Donegan of Pick a Bale of Cotton (based on a different Leadbelly version):


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Hello folks, just popping my head in here in the midst of endless projects that have still been keeping me away.
> 
> @oshipao I was curious of your take on the Elise - anything more on the comparison to the Bottlehead besides the dynamics?
> 
> @HOWIE13 please make sure to mention me (as I'm doing here) when you get your Elise so I can know how it works out for you


 
 Thanks. I will of course let you know how it suits. I just can't wait. Meantime gathering in the tubes/adapters. You know how it is.


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> Thanks. I will of course let you know how it suits. I just can't wait. Meantime gathering in the tubes/adapters. You know how it is.


 
  
 That's right Howie! So are you planning to go 'fully bonkers' (hmmm... we need a better nickname) with the 6 power tube setup? The sound I'm getting from my quad power tube combo (El3N + 6BL7 intermixed) is so breathtaking that I'd imagine if the 6 tube version were any better you'd have to schedule some time off to take it all in. Also you're makin' me curious - are you selling your Expressivo for this or going to compare both?
  
 I've been enjoying cassette on the Elise (ripped to FLAC). Yup it does everything so well that it just makes us all wanna go back to enjoy sounds perhaps unlike ever before. But for my generation cassettes are about as far back as I go.
The Elise is pure, unadulterated audiophile heaven and the sky seems the limit!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UT:  A while back I posted the video of Lionel Richie and Shania Twain singing "Endless Love". If you are a Lionel Richie fan and have the time, you might enjoy this video of the background story behind the "Endless Love" video. I think it is a fascinating interplay between two absolutely amazing artists.


 
 Pct, thank you. Lionel has a great voice. Shania is just as amazing. To listen to this and all the songs shared here, the tone from Elise has the weight and presence, agility and speed. Warm, lush and dynamic sounding. Grand soundstage and superb instruments separation. All these through Beyer T1 with EL3N and Chatham 6520. Nice and simple. It's all you ever wanted from a tube amp for a reasonable price.
  
 Enjoy your music with Elise, whatever combo suits you.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> That's right Howie! So are you planning to go 'fully bonkers' (hmmm... we need a better nickname) with the 6 power tube setup? The sound I'm getting from my quad power tube combo (El3N + 6BL7 intermixed) is so breathtaking that I'd imagine if the 6 tube version were any better you'd have to schedule some time off to take it all in. Also you're makin' me curious - are you selling your Expressivo for this or going to compare both?
> 
> I've been enjoying cassette on the Elise (ripped to FLAC). Yup it does everything so well that it just makes us all wanna go back to enjoy sounds perhaps unlike ever before. But for my generation cassettes are about as far back as I go.
> The Elise is pure, unadulterated audiophile heaven and the sky seems the limit!!!


 
 Yeah as you correctly suspect I am going bonkers just thinking about Elise. I don't have a strategy yet for tube rolling- it will probably depend on how I feel each day.
 The only preparation I've done is write down the heater currents of the various tubes so I don't go over the limit (without external power, of course).
 I'll probably get external power but will continue to see if I can source something suitable in Europe to reduce costs. I now know, thanks to help on this wonderful  thread, what I am looking for.
  
 I loved making my own cassettes from borrowed local library CD's. I had a fantastic Aiwa deck which gave great options for recording. Metal tapes gave very good sound- indistinguishable from the original CD's most of the time. I still have them somewhere.
 I used to have loads of Vinyl too, but didn't look after them and gave them away years ago to a charity shop.
 As for Expressivo, well we have a small bolt hole in Spain and I will use it there, once Elise arrives.


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> George Russell - Living Time with Bill Evans, is an amazing album. Thanks Rich for your recommendation.




I heard some of this on youtube, I will be looking to obtain a copy for myself. Had no idea it existed, it's amazing how much music we miss.

Appreciate knowing about this session, LR...


----------



## oshipao

decentlevi said:


> Hello folks, just popping my head in here in the midst of endless projects that have still been keeping me away.
> 
> @oshipao
> I was curious of your take on the Elise - anything more on the comparison to the Bottlehead besides the dynamics?




DecentLevi
It is certainly more "grain free" for a laxk of a better word. Seems more detailed and smoother at the same time. The only thing I would say the Bottlehead is on par or beats the Elise is the perceived soundatage. I sold my Crack about a month ago, so I could be wrong though. But I feel the depth was deeper with the Crack. This might change once changing tubes though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oshipao said:


> It is certainly more "grain free" for a laxk of a better word. Seems more detailed and smoother at the same time. The only thing I would say the Bottlehead is on par or beats the Elise is the perceived soundstage. I sold my Crack about a month ago, so I could be wrong though. But I feel the depth was deeper with the Crack. This might change once changing tubes though.




@oshipao 

Did you also have a DV 336 at one time?






.


----------



## oshipao

jazzvinyl said:


> @oshipao
> 
> 
> Did you also have a DV 336 at one time?
> ...




Sorry JV, have not listened with the DarkVoice.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oshipao said:


> Sorry JV, have not listened with the DarkVoice.




Got it, mist have been @Oskari who had one, at one time.


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Got it, mist have been @Oskari who had one, at one time.




Still have it. Poor thing must feel unloved.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Still have it. Poor thing must feel unloved.




LOL 

Wondered if you have tried some of the Elise favored tube combos in it?


----------



## connieflyer

howie13 said:


> Yeah as you correctly suspect I am going bonkers just thinking about Elise. I don't have a strategy yet for tube rolling- it will probably depend on how I feel each day.
> The only preparation I've done is write down the heater currents of the various tubes so I don't go over the limit (without external power, of course).
> I'll probably get external power but will continue to see if I can source something suitable in Europe to reduce costs. I now know, thanks to help on this wonderful  thread, what I am looking for.
> 
> ...


 

 Your place any where near where Soligor and his wife moved to?  Have not seen him on the forums in awhile.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Your place any where near where Soligor and his wife moved to?  Have not seen him on the forums in awhile.


 
 I get confused with names, must be an ageing thing. Do you mean Gordon? If so we are a couple of hours drive away.
 Sadly, I think he's left the forums. I always enjoyed his contributions and, if I recall, he was going to eventually move to France.
 I hope he's doing okay.


----------



## connieflyer

Yep, he changed names a couple of times, but still Gordon.  Last post I saw was on the DIY forum.  Been awhile, I know he said he would be off the grid for awhile, but did not think it would be this long.  Hope you are well, also


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Yep, he changed names a couple of times, but still Gordon.  Last post I saw was on the DIY forum.  Been awhile, I know he said he would be off the grid for awhile, but did not think it would be this long.  Hope you are well, also


 
 Yes I'm fine thanks. I haven't had much to contribute on this thread as I am still waiting for Elise to be dispatched but I follow everything and can see you are fully immersed in vids and vinyl just now. Hope the knee is not bothering you too much.
 My wife had an operation on a bunion recently and has to use crutches for 6 weeks, so I am busy doing all the domestic duties.


----------



## connieflyer

Unfortunately had to postpone knee replacement for the third time. Wife's condition continues to deteriorate and did not want to be flat on my back when she needed me. Which she does, I know what you mean about the chores, it gets old after a year or so but you get your routine down and not so bad.  How long has it been since order placed? They had a chassis supply problem while mine was in process, but they got it worked out and the Elise is fine.  Makes the ember look and sound like a toy. The vinyl I am into is for a friend on the thread here, I stopped using vinyl awhile back but he graciously accepted them, no one left here that would do anything with them after I pass.  This way some one gets some appreciation out of them.  Hope your wait is fast and easy.  Wife is grateful for your help around the house, and may even let you roll a few extra tubes!  All the best, Don


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Unfortuneatly had to postpone knee replacement for the third time. Wife's condition continue's to deterriorate and did not want to be flat on my back when she needed me. Which she does, I know what you mean about the chores, it gets old after a year or so but you get your routine down and not so bad.  How long has it been since order placed? They had a chasis supply problem while mine was in process, but they got it worked out and the Elise is fine.  Makes the ember look and sound like a toy. The vinyl I am into is for a friend on the thread here, I stopped using vinyl awhile back but he graciously accepted them, no one left here that would do anything with them after I pass.  This way some one gets some appreciation out of them.  Hope your wait is fast and easy.  Wife is grateful for your help around the house, and may even let you roll a few extra tubes!  All the best, Don


 
 I'm sorry your wife has deteriorated, but I know you told me that's the nature of her illness. It's understandable you can't have your knee op yet. 
 I only ordered Elise 4 weeks ago so I reckon 2-3 weeks more yet- meantime I've ordered a few tubes. One good thing about my wife being in bed a lot of the time is she doesn't get to see what's being delivered.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers, Howard.


----------



## connieflyer

We need our tube fix no matter how we sneak them past the boss lady!


----------



## DavidA

howie13 said:


> One good thing about my wife being in bed a lot of the time is she doesn't get to see what's being delivered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@connieflyer

 Nice to see that both of you can make light and have some humor of a not so great situation, hope both of your wives get better and I know first hand how hard it is to take care of someone who needs 24/7 attention, I helped a friend 3-4 days a week for 12-14 hours a day who was paralyzed on his right side due to a stroke for over a year before he passed so both of you doing the 24/7 bit has got to be tough.
  
 Now what happened to all the great music recommendations that all of you have been linking to


----------



## pctazhp

:For our vinyl fans, direct-to-disk recording


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Wondered if you have tried some of the Elise favored tube combos in it?




Nope. To be honest, I've barely touched it.


----------



## UntilThen

Tracking says I should get the audio switch box today. I'm tired of switching the RCA plugs on Elise !!!
  
 Here's a picture of Elise and Darkvoice 336se. I don't use DV much now even though I've a Tung Sol 6SN7gt mouse ears and 5998 in it.
  

  
  
 ps. @connieflyer  your LPs are being loved and treasured down under. Thanks a zillion.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Tracking says I should get the audio switch box today. I'm tired of switching the RCA plugs on Elise !!!
> 
> Here's a picture of Elise and Darkvoice 336se. I don't use DV much now even though I've a Tung Sol 6SN7gt mouse ears and 5998 in it.




Wondered if anyone had tried 2x 6N7G as powers....or a pair of 6BL7 as powers, in it....(just for grins and giggles).


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Wondered if anyone had tried 2x 6N7G as powers....or a pair of 6BL7 as powers, in it....(just for grins and giggles).


 

 Not knowing the limits of DV336se, I don't want to blow it up.   There are some of my exotic tubes that doesn't seem to work in it. It is not as flexible as Elise. It is also quite prone to hum with some tubes while it's ok with others and there's no pattern. So a guy came out with a mod and it's call Fitz mod.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Not knowing the limits of DV336se, I don't want to blow it up.   There are some of my exotic tubes that doesn't seem to work in it. It is not as flexible as Elise. It is also quite prone to hum with some tubes while it's ok with others and there's no pattern. So a guy came out with a mod and it's call Fitz mod.


 

Yes, know about Fitz mod, seems really easy.

Since 2x 6N7G would draw less current than one 6AS7, seems like that would be a safe bet 

No biggie however.


----------



## UntilThen

@oshipao run, don't walk to get this Selby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Works like a charm and looks much more than $20 !!! It's quite solid. Front buttons are firm and nice. Back RCA connectors looks good. Even have rubber feet. So convenient now. For anyone needing to have multiple switchable source input to Elise, this is ideal.
  

  
 This is where you can buy it. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400988081260?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 This is the other Selby. ... or Shelby.


----------



## UntilThen

@DavidA  Penny Lover for you.


----------



## connieflyer

untilthen said:


> @oshipao run, don't walk to get this Selby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Would rather have an F-40, but it is just outside my budget, okay waaaaaaaay outside my budget  https://www.ford.com/performance
/gt/?searchid=||78130292354&s_kwcid=AL!2519!10!8027995531!78130292354&ef_id=V1TJZwAAAeCGfXlo:20160606005255:s


----------



## UntilThen

All the European branded 6N7G sounds good but particularly this pair of brown base which Suuup track down for me some time ago. 
  
 These are the tubes I'm listening to this week.


----------



## connieflyer

Those look like the ones I sold him, I spray painted the bases!


----------



## connieflyer

Running GE 6AS7's and RCA 6N7's tonight and the sound is very satisfying.  This Elise is a quality product to be sure. Thanks for all the tube combo suggestions and these tubes as well as a nice pair of Viiseaux 6n7's compliments of UT. Happy Happy Happy!


----------



## Lord Raven

With the sighting of new moon, the Holy month of Ramadan started all over the muslim world with all it's festivities, workload has hiked just like temperature (45 - 50 C), it is going to be 15 - 16 hours of fasting,  I will be keeping the Elise in resting mode while I patiently wait for the T1's (it is going to be my Eid gift (celebration at the end of fasting month)) Have a great day guys! 
  
 LR


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Running GE 6AS7's and RCA 6N7's tonight and the sound is very satisfying.  This Elise is a quality product to be sure. Thanks for all the tube combo suggestions and these tubes as well as a nice pair of Viiseaux 6n7's compliments of UT. Happy Happy Happy!


 

 If you add 'C' to the GE 6AS7G, it will sound better.     The Visseaux 6N7G does sound good with that power tube. The short RCA 6N7GT has a warmer sound. Like chocolate.  Glad that the adapters work and has no hum in your Elise as well.


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry at my age some fingers don't always work, message from brain, gets way laid and i looks like my C finger took a nap.  Glad you were the only one that noted it though!


----------



## connieflyer

UT interested in a new turntable?  http://www.technics.com/us/introduction/hifi-direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200gae/


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT interested in a new turntable?  http://www.technics.com/us/introduction/hifi-direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200gae/


 

 A classic and much loved. It won't be cheap this new reincarnation. The Denon DP300F is working very well and will serve my purpose for now.


----------



## connieflyer

Just trying to spend all your spare change!


----------



## connieflyer

Heard this version yet?  Distrubed....


----------



## UntilThen

That's the beauty of the switch box. I can just switch back to my iMac at the push of a button. Have the iMac, PC and TT connected to it now. 
  
 As for this Sound of Silence, it does sound a bit disturbed.  Now let me try singing it....


----------



## connieflyer

Wait I need cotton for my ears!


----------



## connieflyer

Or perhaps this is better for your sensibilities ..


----------



## UntilThen

In 1981, I sang this in Hyde Park, 5 years after I left the army. At the same time, Simon and Garfunkel was singing in Central Park. No cover can do this justice. The library of congress have preserved this. Sealed and the keys thrown away.
  
Hello darkness, my old friend 
I've come to talk with you again 
Because a vision softly creeping


----------



## connieflyer

That is the best version I have this somewhere, saw it on utube awhile ago


----------



## DavidA

Love this thread for the music recommendations, and "the sound of silence" is a gem


----------



## JazzVinyl

I love well done covers...

Here is a good 'en...

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wmPCGi_6Axo [/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

And one for LR to contemplate while he is fasting...




[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_YGA3rvELyE [/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

And Joan....


[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiK-wLN-98 [/VIDEO]


----------



## richdytch

(EDITED)I got trigger happy the other day, and ordered two 'dual 6BL7 to 6AS7, fixed octal version' adapters. Rather than cancelling, I figured they'd probably come in handy one day. 
  
 My question is, can I put 6SN7 and/or EL3N with 6SN7 adapters into the 6BL7 slots? As far as I can tell from scrutinising the boards, 6BL7 looks to have the same pin order as 6SN7... but I wouldn't want to chance it. 
  
 A blown-up Elise would not be the aim of all this!


----------



## richdytch

this is what they look like: 
  

  


> I got trigger happy the other day, and ordered two 'dual 6BL7 to 6SN7, fixed octal version' adapters


----------



## DecentLevi

Are you referring to the adapter that goes in the back for power tubes? If so, you need dual 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter such as this one. Maybe you can provide the link to the one you ordered for confirmation.
  
 Technically you should be able to use 6SN7 with El3N intermixed in this same adapter, but for some reason my testing resulted in an unbearable hum with this configuration. Otherwise this adapter (as long as you have the right one as per above) should be good for dual 6SN7, dual 6BL7, 6SN7 + 6BL7 or my all time favorite champion EL3n + 6BL7.
  
 However usage with EL3N on that board would require an additional adapter, which is the same one EL3N use in the front too
  
 If you're referring to an adapter for the driver tubes in the front, then you got the wrong one because the Elise uses single 6SN7's natively as driver tubes


----------



## richdytch

decentlevi said:


> Are you referring to the adapter that goes in the back for power tubes? If so, you need dual 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter such as this one. Maybe you can provide the link to the one you ordered for confirmation.
> 
> Technically you should be able to use 6SN7 with El3N intermixed in this same adapter, but for some reason my testing resulted in an unbearable hum with this configuration. Otherwise this adapter (as long as you have the right one as per above) should be good for dual 6SN7, dual 6BL7, 6SN7 + 6BL7 or my all time favorite champion EL3n + 6BL7.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, Decent Levi, I got slightly mixed up there. These are 6BL7 to 6AS7:

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191850787735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## DecentLevi

Yup it appears you have the "flexible one" that should work with any combination of the above 3 tube types


----------



## richdytch

decentlevi said:


> Yup it appears you have the "flexible one" that should work with any combination of the above 3 tube types


 
  
 Brill, thank you DL. Looking forward to some experimentation! I already have the EL3N to 6SN7 adapters... so set to go in that department, although I'd require some more if I'm to use EL3N as drivers, as well as in the power boards. 
  
 Cheers!
  
 Rich


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yup it appears you have the "flexible one" that should work with any combination of the above 3 tube types


 
 Just for clarification, are the sockets for 6AS7, 6BL7 and 6SN7 tubes wired the same and therefore electrically (though not necessarily acoustically) interchangeable?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Are you referring to the adapter that goes in the back for power tubes? If so, you need dual 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter such as this one. Maybe you can provide the link to the one you ordered for confirmation.
> 
> Technically you should be able to use 6SN7 with El3N intermixed in this same adapter, but for some reason my testing resulted in an unbearable hum with this configuration. Otherwise this adapter (as long as you have the right one as per above) should be good for dual 6SN7, dual 6BL7, 6SN7 + 6BL7 or my all time favorite champion EL3n + 6BL7.
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry to pester you with questions again, DecentLevi, but does this mean you can't use double octals for each channel ie four tubes in total, as drivers?


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> Sorry to pester you with questions again, DecentLevi, but does this mean you can't use double octals for each channel ie four tubes in total, as drivers?


 
 Yes that's right, in the front, two dual octals (if you're referring to triodes) are not electronically correct for the Elise, the same as they would not be in the 6SN7 slot of the Ember; yet two single triodes can be had, such as dual 6J5)
  
 So far I've only been able to afford these inexpensive tubes so far, as above. But unlike some, I believe that value does not automatically equate to superior audio


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> Just for clarification, are the sockets for 6AS7, 6BL7 and 6SN7 tubes wired the same and therefore electrically (though not necessarily acoustically) interchangeable?


 
 6AS7 is physically compatible with the above two, but electrically the 6AS7 has about double the voltage, therefore you can power two double triodes of lower voltage tubes such as 6SN7 and 6BL7 / 6BX7 and EL3N with adapter (which are interchangeable), with a 6AS7 to 6BL7 dual adapter


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yes that's right, in the front, two dual octals (if you're referring to triodes) are not electronically correct for the Elise, the same as they would not be in the 6SN7 slot of the Ember; yet two single triodes can be had, such as dual 6J5)
> 
> So far I've only been able to afford these inexpensive tubes so far, as above. But unlike some, I believe that value does not automatically equate to superior audio


 
 Got it now- thanks again.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> 6AS7 is physically compatible with the above two, but electrically the 6AS7 has about double the voltage, therefore you can power two double triodes of lower voltage tubes such as 6SN7 and 6BL7 / 6BX7 and EL3N with adapter (which are interchangeable), with a 6AS7 to 6BL7 dual adapter


 
 I think I understand. Do you mean the current draw of the 6AS7 is about double the other tubes so you can connect a 6SN7 and 6BL7 through a suitable adapter into a single 6AS7 socket which can handle 2.5A?


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> I think I understand. Do you mean the current draw of the 6AS7 is about double the other tubes so you can connect a 6SN7 and 6BL7 through a suitable adapter into a single 6AS7 socket which can handle 2.5A?




The adapter you bought can be used for dual 6SN7 in the driver slots or dual tubes in the power position. 

Just remember to add up the total current draw (voltage for all will be 6.3v) and do not exceed 7 amps total. 

For instance...2x 6AS7 and 2x 6SN7...

6AS7 draw 2.5 amps each = 5 amps
6SN7 draw 0.6 amps each = 1.2 amps

6.2 amps for the default tube compliment. 

We have all used 2x ECC31 as drivers w/6AS7's and the ECC31's draw 1.0 amps each so the total current draw is 7.0 amps. Elise handles it but it is suggested to not exceed 7 amps using the internal transformer. 

You can heat the tubes externally, and take things as far as you want, but be aware of the 7 amp total tube heater current draw limit using the internal transformer.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> The adapter you bought can be used for dual 6SN7 in the driver slots or dual tubes in the power position.
> 
> Just remember to add up the total current draw (voltage for all will be 6.3v) and do not exceed 7 amps total.
> 
> ...


 
 Right-I just need to make sure the total current of all my tubes doesn't exceed 7.  I'm doing all the thinking without being able to do the 'hands on' experimentation. Won't be too long now, hopefully. I'm very grateful for your help.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> @oshipao
> run, don't walk to get this Selby.
> 
> Works like a charm and looks much more than $20 !!! It's quite solid. Front buttons are firm and nice. Back RCA connectors looks good. Even have rubber feet. So convenient now. For anyone needing to have multiple switchable source input to Elise, this is ideal.
> ...




UntilThen

Good news! I will try get one of these in time. Btw, the 5998 tubes. Do they improve the soundstage in your opinion, or should I look at the drivers?


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, @HOWIE13, I've heard from Gordon (@Solrighal), he's doing fine, getting ready to move to France in a few days.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> And one for LR to contemplate while he is fasting...


 
  
  
 Thank you JV, it sounded amazing after a long fasting day


----------



## Lord Raven

5998 tube is definitely better than Chatham 6AS7G, overall improvement in sound  UT had me buying these tubes, like all other and I am thankful to him!
  
 Wish to buy some GEC 6AS7G soon!


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> @connieflyer, @HOWIE13, I've heard from Gordon (@Solrighal), he's doing fine, getting ready to move to France in a few days.


 
 That's good to know. Maybe he will be back with us before too long.


----------



## mordy

Have been trying out a few different combinations in my 6x adapter. Everything sounds good - the main difference is how the bass stands out - more up front and harder punching or more recessed and softer.
  
 All 6x combinations using two EL3N as drivers:
  
 My go to combination has been 4 x EL3N + 2 x 6BL7.
  
 Here is what I tried today:
  
 1) 2 each of 6BL7, 6BX7 and 6N7. Nice, but bass softer and more recessed.
  
 2) 4 x 6BL7 + 2 6BX7. Nice, but bass, although more forward, not forceful enough.
  
 3) 4 x 6BL7 + 2 x EL3N - now we are talking - better slam in the bass and better definition in the treble but a little bright.
  
 4) Back to where we started: 4 x EL3N + 2 x 6BL7. Nothing bothers me - everything sounds right/perfect. So we are back at rolling down the par 8 hole in the tube course  -
     a hole-in-one.  
    
    Or whatever....
  
 Tired of tube rolling? How about something new? Build your own vacuum tube!
  




  
Home Brew Vacuum Tubes Are Easier Than You Think Specialized equipment is not needed to make working and reliable tubes – just a MAPP torch, simple hand tools, and a low-end vacuum rig. Anybody could – and probably should – give this a try.
  
 Suuup- are you up to the challenge?
  
 http://www.notey.com/@hackaday_unofficial/external/9253296/home-brew-vacuum-tubes-are-easier-than-you-think.html
  
 Here is a video about a French guy making his own vacuum tubes accompanied by some nice piano playing. Don't think I can afford all those machines....


----------



## connieflyer

I would make my own, but have enough trouble making coffee!


----------



## mordy

Me too:


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> @UntilThen
> 
> Good news! I will try get one of these in time. Btw, the 5998 tubes. Do they improve the soundstage in your opinion, or should I look at the drivers?


 
 5998 will pair very well with your Sylvania 6SN7GTB. You'll not just get an improvement in soundstage but more dynamics, clarity, details and a lively punchy bass.
  
 I assume you're on stock tubes. If so, you'll get a wider soundstage using EL3N as drivers. EL3N has a more forward, bigger sound than your 6SN7. 
  
 You'll find marked improvement changing the stock power tubes Svetlana 6N13S to 5998 or various 6AS7G.
  
 PS... for a wider soundstage, may I suggest a Beyer T1 or Senn HD800 headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

ABBA reunite after 30 years. 
 http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/abba-reunite-for-first-public-performance-in-30-years/ar-BBtVH3y?ocid=spartandhp
  
 Go on sing it...


----------



## Lord Raven

The Geek's Femto Clocks are fed with pure DC love  Who needs an LPS? OMG the drums are so hitting hard..
  

  
 Tonight's combo is EL3N with some 5998 love! FDD20's are laid to rest LOL
  

  
 Cheers to all the lucky ones and not so lucky ones, who don't have an Elise yet LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

If Chesky Records does something, I want it  If it is Babatunde, I want it at any cost. Awesome!


----------



## connieflyer

Nothing going on so I will hit you, (especially DavidA) with nostalgia.  When I was stationed at Barbers Point Hawaii in 1963 now John Rogers, one of the guys in the barracks had his 1959 Ford retracktible hardtop shipped over from the mainland. Talk about a chick magnet. At the time it was the only one on the Oahu. Everywhere we went, put the top up, or down and all the girls wanted to go for a ride down Waikiki.


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, that is so cool, I've never seen it anywhere, is it still on the islands? or has the owner taken it somewhere else.
  
 I agree that almost any convertible is a chick magnet, sadly the only convertible I've owned which I still have is a Honda S2000 that I've had since 2004:


 only picture with a chick in it:


 Corvettes are not bad either.


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought this album and love this song.


----------



## richdytch

The most satisfactory foray I've had into multiple power tube setups, with my currently limited resources. Old news to most protagonists here, but for me the stock TS 6SN7GT as drivers, plus EL3N and some 1961 RCA 6SN7GTB ... branded 'Delco', is very engaging. Sounded rather thin at first, but has had a notable improvement in body during its first hour or so of operation. 
  
 I should have some more EL3N on the way soon, together with adapters. Also, some Ken Rad 6SN7 which seem to be known for a nice bass response. Of course, I still await the Chatham 6as7g which Lord Raven has kindly sold me. They should be here soon, then I should have enough toys for a while. Well, maybe just some 6BL7...


----------



## DecentLevi

Awesome @richdytch it sure looks like you're doin' it right on the Elise! And you got a much better camera than mine, LOL.
 So you don't get a super loud buzz with 6SN7 and EL3N as power tubes like I did?
 Yeah I definitely recon you try 6BL7 with those in the back too.
  
 And what about you UT, were you able to give the EL3N + 6BL7 power combo a try yet? Was it good enough to dethrone any of your other power combos?
  
 Hey also would anyone know if the 6N7's are suitable as drivers?


----------



## UntilThen

Nope all those permutations are not any better than a simple EL3N and Chatham 6520 or 5998. I've tried them all.


----------



## richdytch

decentlevi said:


> Awesome @richdytch it sure looks like you're doin' it right on the Elise! And you got a much better camera than mine, LOL.
> So you don't get a super loud buzz with 6SN7 and EL3N as power tubes like I did?
> Yeah I definitely recon you try 6BL7 with those in the back too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oddly, DL, I'm not getting much buzz at all from this setup. I always seem to have the least audible him with 6SN7 in the driver position, irrespective of what I have as a power setup. 
  
 I would say that this combo is overall better than the stock 6asg and it's clearer/smoother in the midrange than the Mullard 6080 I have. The Mullards really do seem capable of trouser-flapping bass, indeed they're the first tube I've ever used which prompted complaints from my wife when she was trying to get to sleep. The strength of the EL3N/6SN7GTB is definitely silky mids... it's not quite as weighty as I'd like. 
  
 BTW DL, the camera is only the build-in one on my humble Samsung Galaxy S5


----------



## UntilThen

This setup is similar sounding to the one below. It looks terrible in my opinion. It's like Lego building. 
  

  
 This has a better tone for me, just swapping the EL3N to the front with 6BL7 + 6SN7 as power.


 but none of those 2 sounded any better than a simple EL3N and Chatham 6520 so IMO this simple setup is better.

  
  
  
 You can also use EL3N with 6BL7 + 6N7. Sounded alright too. 
  
 You certainly can use 6N7 as drivers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

UT - they didn't make the 4x in / 1 out switcher, in black?


----------



## mordy

Speaking of 6SN7 tubes, here is one that I can recommend - haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but IMHO it sounds just as good or better than the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue tube that came with the Elise - it is different sounding though.
  
 I have not heard the expensive 6SN7 tubes (Tung Sol round plates and Sylvania 40's), but this one is worth a try:
  




  
 There are several different RCA (and rebranded RCA tubes) labeled 6SN7GTB. The only one I can vouch for that sounds very good looks like the one with the parallel plates in the picture. The heater is a thin little wire on top of the mica. When in use two little spots glow and if it is dark you can see the glow of the tiny heater wire as well. The heater wire spots come through a little star shaped hole, The micas are gray and rectangular with two sides curved.
  
 Close-up: (The second line is a shadow and not a wire)
  




  
 Here is a night view:
  




  
 Here is an action photo:
  




  
 To the left of the Elise is the 15A voltage regulator with massive heatsinks (barely warm) and my LD MKIII collecting dust.
  
 As you can see, there are four EL3N used as power tubes with a pair of 6BL7 added. Adding these two tubes is like putting the EL3N on steroids.
  
 These mid  60's RCA 6SN7GTB are unsung heroes IMHO and available very inexpensive.


----------



## connieflyer

I would imagine, when he transfered to another duty station he took it with him, his grandfather owned a couple of Ford dealerships and the family was very well off. Neat car, but the number of relays was a real pain. Some times he would have me in the back seat, lift up the cardboard shelf, and short across relays to actuate different functions, like top folding, trunk opening, closing, or screws turning to fasten down top.  Took it to local dealer but he had no experience with it nor knowledge of it.


----------



## connieflyer

Of the 6sn7's that I have, the Sylvania VT-231's from the 1940's and the Ken-Rad black glass VT-231's from the 1940's are the best I have heard.  I also have a later Sylvania chrome top gtb that sounds very good.  I like the Sylvania tubes about the best, Ken-Rad's are a little better in bass, but at the expensive of top end.


----------



## connieflyer

Have a pair of GE 6AS7G' from @UntilThen's stock, and one has a copper rod.   Don't know if it makes a difference structurally, but I have swapped them right to left and back and discern no sound difference.  Of course we are talking 70+ old ears here also.  They sound really nice with the EL3N's.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Has anybody heard Little Dot MK VI+ or MK VIII SE? I'm doubting actually... Probably another ballpark (and price) than Elise...


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
 R u speaking about 6AS7GA?


----------



## aqsw

Here's one for us old guys!!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHqs8SffDo


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> UT - they didn't make the 4x in / 1 out switcher, in black?


 

 Not the brand that I bought. I couldn't find any cheap ones in black that does audio only.
  
 You can however buy the audio/video switch box and just not use the video RCA.
  
 Here's one that works 4 to 1 and 4 from 1.... and in black. Search eBay for 'audio RCA switch box'.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4way-Port-ABCD-manual-switch-box-3-Triple-RCA-A-V-Audio-Video-Stereo-DVD-HD-TV/301960960463?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36860%26meid%3Da971a45547ff4e109ed123743b1d5ee9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D400988081260
  
 @DavidA you were asking for one that works both ways.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> R u speaking about 6AS7GA?


 

 Nope. He's referring to this. It's swam all the way to USA. They do sound better than the RCA 6AS7G which I also have a pair.


----------



## nykobing

untilthen said:


> Nope. He's referring to this. It's swam all the way to USA. They do sound better than the RCA 6AS7G which I also have a pair.
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought that if they have flaps at the bottom they were made by RCA.


----------



## UntilThen

That's my understanding too but there's some subtle differences in tone. The GE's are tighter.


----------



## connieflyer

I can attest to this as well, after listening to the GE's I am defiantly a little tighter! Or was it the Glenfiddich?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I can attest to this as well, after listening to the GE's I am defiantly a little tighter! Or was it the Glenfiddich?


 

 LOL tighter and lighter I hope.


----------



## UntilThen

Love this LP for $8 near mint condition. Leo's acoustic guitar is amazing.


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> Not the brand that I bought. I couldn't find any cheap ones in black that does audio only.
> 
> You can however buy the audio/video switch box and just not use the video RCA.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for remembering.
 I ended up going with a pair of Schiit Sys since they have a volume control so I can match the output levels when doing some comparisons.
  
 And I do love women who go both ways
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


connieflyer said:


> I can attest to this as well, after listening to the GE's I am defiantly a little tighter! Or was it the Glenfiddich?


 

 maybe some Louie XIII might help loosen you up if you're too tight


----------



## DecentLevi

*STATUS UPDATE FOR ALL ELISERS' *


  

I HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT NATO IS RECALLING ALL TUBES BACK TO THE MILITARY, SO YOU MUST RETURN ALL OF YOUR TUBES TO THEM AT ONCE
EFFECTIVE 2006 IN "UNIVERSE Q", THE ELISE WILL BE REPLACED WITH A BALANCED PROTOTYPE
EFFECTIVE TOMORROW, ANYBODY COMPARING THE ELISE TO ANOTHER AMP OF A HIGHER VALUE WILL BE PENALIZED ONE EL3N
  
 Oh, rats, I guess we're down to making our own tubes now just as Mordy says... Oh, wait, #2 was for the wrong universe. But anyway but at least we still have 24 hours for amp comparisons.
Disclaimer: only take this as fact if it were from the manufacturer


----------



## mordy

HI DL,
  
 I assume that NATO wants to revive the ENIAC computer that uses 18,000 vacuum tubes. As you all know, transistors and microchips are susceptible to nuclear radiation, but not vacuum tubes.
  




  
 If you want to know where all them tubes went, read the article below on the father (mother?) of all super computers. BTW, before computers, people doing the calculations were called "computers."
  
 ENIAC filled a 20 by 40 foot room, weighed 30 tons, and used more than 18,000 vacuum tubes. Like the Mark I, ENIAC employed paper card readers obtained from IBM (these were a regular product for IBM, as they were a long established part of business accounting machines, IBM's forte). When operating, the ENIAC was silent but you knew it was on as the 18,000 vacuum tubes each generated waste heat like a light bulb and all this heat (174,000 watts of heat) meant that the computer could only be operated in a specially designed room with its own heavy duty air conditioning system.
  
 Here is a link to ENIAC:
  
 http://www.computersciencelab.com/ComputerHistory/HistoryPt4.htm


----------



## mordy

Found this in Universe G (Google)


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> Thanks for remembering.
> I ended up going with a pair of Schiit Sys since they have a volume control so I can match the output levels when doing some comparisons.
> 
> And I do love women who go both ways


 
 Alright you're going high tech there and a universally accepted name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't forget mine has 4 inputs whereas you need a pair.
  
 And this LP just arrived in the mail. Not a pop or crackle. I've been short changed. !!!  Schuur Thing.


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> Have been trying out a few different combinations in my 6x adapter. Everything sounds good - the main difference is how the bass stands out - more up front and harder punching or more recessed and softer.
> 
> All 6x combinations using two EL3N as drivers:
> 
> ...




 That does look pretty cool Mordy, I've got to admit. I'm not sure the sound quality would be the best though.... I've gathered more than enough projects for this summer vacation, so this'll have to wait until next year.. Hmm. I wonder how much of the needed machinery the University has. Probably a lot, if not all, of it.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> 6AS7 is physically compatible with the above two, but electrically the 6AS7 has about double the voltage, therefore you can power two double triodes of lower voltage tubes such as 6SN7 and 6BL7 / 6BX7 and EL3N with adapter (which are interchangeable), with a 6AS7 to 6BL7 dual adapter


 
 EL3N is a pentode, not a double triode. When you use the EL3N->6SN7 adapter, it's called a triode-strapped pentode, which is effectively the same as a single triode -- not a double. Elise can handle both single and double triodes as powers/drivers. 
  
 These are all 6.3V tubes, but the heaters draw different amounts of current. 6AS7 draws 2.5A for example.


----------



## connieflyer

This is off topic, but I thought for those that love nature as well as music check this man's website. I have been a subscriber for a few years and his 3D panorama's are beautiful, especially the night shots of the constellations from the desert. Use the scroll wheel on the mouse to Zoom in and out, and you can drag the view around just by holding down the mouse cursor and drag the view to suit. Up, down and all around.
  
http://www.utah3d.net/utah-travel/grand-staircase/winter-night-sky.html#


----------



## Lord Raven

Tonight's playlist  Awesome sound... 
  
 Through the Tung Sol 5998 and EL3N, magical combo!!!! I cannot believe my senses!!!!


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> This is off topic, but I thought for those that love nature as well as music check this man's website. I have been a subscriber for a few years and his 3D panorama's are beautiful, especially the night shots of the constellations from the desert. Use the scroll wheel on the mouse to Zoom in and out, and you can drag the view around just by holding down the mouse cursor and drag the view to suit. Up, down and all around.
> 
> http://www.utah3d.net/utah-travel/grand-staircase/winter-night-sky.html#


 
 That is a really cool picture, thanks for posting it, wish I could save a part to use as a screen background.  I like the moving/panning it does while in full screen


----------



## connieflyer

You could check with the author, alot of times , photo work is available as screensavers.  Nice camera work


----------



## JazzVinyl

Bono and the Edge:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pCVLrK0LY[/VIDEO]


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Thank you for posting the beautiful 3D landscapes - very impressive. I have a printing program that allows me to print out a saved screen shot and save it as a file as well. Once it is saved it seems to me that you should be able to use it as a screensaver, but just the picture - not the panning feature.
  
 Didn't think that I would start using my old collection of 6SN7 tubes in the Elise, but with the 6x adapter they sound good so far. Now trying a pair of Sylvania 1954 Chrome Tops. It takes me a little while to get used to the sound and then to be able to compare it to known benchmarks.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Manfred Mann...



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLGrxYa-YFs[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

Just got this on vinyl and it sound so good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Elise does sound incredibly good with T1.


----------



## Suuup

Received my capacitors a couple of days ago -- less than a week after ordering from China! Received some sockets today, only missing the diodes now and I should be ready to make voltage doublers. FDD20 without external heating is going to be amazing!


----------



## 2359glenn

suuup said:


> Received my capacitors a couple of days ago -- less than a week after ordering from China! Received some sockets today, only missing the diodes now and I should be ready to make voltage doublers. FDD20 without external heating is going to be amazing!


 

 1N4001 series diodes should be easy to get any ware. You don't want more then 1 amp diodes or they won't fit in the tube bases.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Received my capacitors a couple of days ago -- less than a week after ordering from China! Received some sockets today, only missing the diodes now and I should be ready to make voltage doublers. FDD20 without external heating is going to be amazing!




Love this project! Voltage doublers in FDD bases sounds wonderful, will be following this, closely.

You GO, Suuup!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> EFFECTIVE TOMORROW, ANYBODY COMPARING THE ELISE TO ANOTHER AMP OF A HIGHER VALUE WILL BE PENALIZED ONE EL3N




LOL, you can have *all my EL3N*'s, won't miss them


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Not the brand that I bought. I couldn't find any cheap ones in black that does audio only.




Just wondered since the Silver does not match the rest of your gear...

Almost since day one with Elise, I've had the vintage Calrad 5 in 1 out, with a big knob on top to switch inputs. Was new in the box, $11.00


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Speaking of 6SN7 tubes, here is one that I can recommend - haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but IMHO it sounds just as good or better than the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue tube that came with the Elise - it is different sounding though.
> 
> I have not heard the expensive 6SN7 tubes (Tung Sol round plates and Sylvania 40's), but this one is worth a try:




Hello Mordy,

Bet the '50 6SN7GTB does sound nice!

I am convinced about the 40's Sylvania 6SN7W's. they sound "more natural, more organic" than my later 6SN7's.
Every once in a while, you can come across one that is not that expensive on the famous auction site. You should keep an eye out - worth it


----------



## Suuup

jazzvinyl said:


> Love this project! Voltage doublers in FDD bases sounds wonderful, will be following this, closely.
> 
> You GO, Suuup!!



I will not be building it directly into the FDD20 adapters. I'll make a new pair of adapters, so I can use them with all 12V tubes.


----------



## Suuup

2359glenn said:


> 1N4001 series diodes should be easy to get any ware. You don't want more then 1 amp diodes or they won't fit in the tube bases.


 
 Hm, this might be a problem. Ordered 10A diodes. I'll try to make it work, and if not, I'll get some smaller ones. The capacitors are quite small.


----------



## connieflyer

I'll take them!!!


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Mordy,
> 
> Bet the '50 6SN7GTB does sound nice!
> 
> ...


 
 JV:  This pair is discounted because there is a crack in the base of one of the tubes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-Tung-Sol-CTL-6SN7GT-tubes-ROUND-PLATES-BLACK-GLASSES-/361562333499?hash=item542ecb613b:g:ZksAAOSwZetXO-Mm.
  
 You or @mordy should buy them before they get away, and then immediately send them to me to compare to my $37.50 pair of TS6SN7-GTBs (original issue - not Russian reissue). It shouldn't take me more than a year to get a good take on the differences, if any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The TS6SN7-GTB/TS5998 is now in my Elise 100% of the time and I'm a happy camper


----------



## pctazhp

One of my early movie memories:


----------



## connieflyer

And tell me who doesn't like a da Spag!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> And tell me who doesn't like a da Spag!


 
 My waist size is certainly proof positive I'm a big fan )))


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Just got this on vinyl and it sound so good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 And here I am, waiting for my T1  The forwarding company did a 15% off on their shipping charges, I saved another 10 on shipping cost hehe Thanks for the delay  I can go eat out now...


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> Received my capacitors a couple of days ago -- less than a week after ordering from China! Received some sockets today, only missing the diodes now and I should be ready to make voltage doublers. FDD20 without external heating is going to be amazing!


 
  
 This is sweet, FDD20 is my favorite tube after EL3N  You go commercial @Suuup


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> This is sweet, FDD20 is my favorite tube after EL3N  You go commercial @Suuup



If it works out I can make you a pair no problem.


----------



## connieflyer

Relaxing time....


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> JV:  This pair is discounted because there is a crack in the base of one of the tubes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-Tung-Sol-CTL-6SN7GT-tubes-ROUND-PLATES-BLACK-GLASSES-/361562333499/URL].
> 
> You or @mordy should buy them before they get away, and then immediately send them to me to compare to my $37.50 pair of TS6SN7-GTBs (original issue - not Russian reissue). It shouldn't take me more than a year to get a good take on the differences, if any
> 
> The TS6SN7-GTB/TS5998 is now in my Elise 100% of the time and I'm a happy camper




Ka-ZOW!! US $489.95!!!

I bought a single 12v version, for less than $40.00 shipped!!

!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I will not be building it directly into the FDD20 adapters. I'll make a new pair of adapters, so I can use them with all 12V tubes.




Aha! Makes perfect sense!


----------



## Audict123

Long time since I last posted here. On the picture below, my favourite setup so far. FDD20 drivers with Russian 6H5C powers. The FDD20 is just incredible in combination with the HD650. To describe it shortly: it's like injecting nitrous oxide in the HD650 family van, transforming this very very useful vehicle into a racing car... But with my Elise, it takes particular tubes and voltages to make it work. I like to report my findings here, because I know that others also had trouble getting it to work in the Elise (just like the 6N7G, still working on that...).
  
 My recipy to get FDD20 to work reliably in Elise:
 - a (variable voltage) lab power supply - in my case a Gopher CPS-3205 - to provide the ~ 13V for the FDD20 heaters. Only very very faint hum, and I don't use a ground wire. This lab power supply proved to be a great tool for me. Changing the voltage from 12 to 14V has dramatic impact on the sound of the FDD20.
 - either the stock Russian powers Sylvania 6H13C (FDD20 heaters at at least 13,6V) or - even better - the 6H5C (FDD20 heater at at least 13,3V). The latter are visually identical to the stock 6H13C, but the electrical parameters are slightly different (including a somewhat higher transconductance).
  
 At lower heater voltages than the ones indicated, there is distortion. The louder the music, the more distortion. There is no clear datasheet for the FDD20 but it has been reported to be a 12,5 or 13V tube. 13,3 Volt shouldn't be a problem as it's only some 2% above that.
  
 I also tested other powers - to no avail
 - Tung Sol 5998 only works with FDD20 heater voltage around 12V. But the sound is flat and dull... At 13V there is a lot of distortion. I will try again just below 13V ...
 - Chatham 6AS7G or it's close analog 6520: distorts at normal listening volumes, whatever the voltage on FDD20 heaters (tested between 11,5-14V)
 - (7236 on the way...., will report later)
  
 I have no idea why my Elise is so sensitive to the right voltage and power tubes with FDD20 in. My current hypothesis as a tube amp noob is that the early adopters have a version of Elise that is tuned slightly differently. Maybe Feliks decided to set some variables (e.g. cathode resistor values?) slightly differently to protect Elise from the tube rolling frenzy in this forum and make them stick to using 6SN7  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
  

  
 The picture above shows the described setup. Picture taken after playing Audioslave - Show me how to live. Tubes and ears both still glowing, boy this setup rocks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. BTW: as you can see, the shrink tubing on my FDD20 adapters is holding up perfectly, even at the edges where heat from the amp could lead to further shrinkage.
  
 I really like Suuup's idea to build voltage doublers into the adapters. But it won't work for me as 12-12,6V is just not enough. (I measured 6.0V at the heaters of my Elise and 232 volts mains).


----------



## Audict123

BTW, there are two other things I like to explore in the future, when I find the time for it
  
 - build some 6N7G adapters with wires for external heating. I have a bucket full of 6N7G tubes that rarely work without distortion as soon as they heat up properly. I hope that raising or lowering the heater voltage (in the range +/- 10% max) will move the operating point enough to get them to work reliably. Like with the FDD20 in my previous post.
  
 - build some adapters for ancestors of the 6SN7. The reason is simple: my second favorite tube so far is the 6C5G, a single triode ancestor. This is a simple plug and play tube. Older ancestors have lower heater voltages (easy enough to provide that with the lab power supply...) and / or a larger negative voltage of grid versus cathode. I may need a higher cathode voltage (increase the cathode resistor in Elise, don't like to do that...) OR add two extra external wires to thee adapter to provide an actual negative voltage to the grid. Should I do this as a noob? Probably not, but I already have some tubes like the 37's (RCA) and even the 27's (Cunningham C327) that are the first of these indirectly heated triodes eventually evolving into 6SN7's (see Vinylsavor 6SN7 webpage) ....There are a lot of fans for these triodes in the DIY world and they can't all be wrong.


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry to hear you are having problems with the Elise.  I am running  Tung-Sol 5998's and Visseaux 6n7g's and have zero distortion, combo sounds excellent.  Running them for hours on end and never any hint of distortion. I have the EL3N's, C3Gs, 6AS7G's,, 6080's,6SN7's, 6BL7's,6SN7GT's and I have never had any distortion from any of the tube combo's.  Using Sennheiser 800, JRiver 21, PSAudio Nuwave Dac. I listen to alot of different source material and genre's. Perhaps something went south with the amp? Too much heater load at some time? Hope you get it straightened out


----------



## mordy

Hi Audict123,
  
 Very interesting to read for me. As far as I know, most tubes allow for a variation +/- 10% in the voltage.
  
 I have a grounded laptop power supply 18.5V and and 3.5A which is more than enough for a set of 6N7G or FDD20 driver tubes. Then I have 5A voltage regulator with a set screw for adjusting the voltage. If I understand you correctly, changing the voltage to the driver tubes may eliminate the hum?
  
 Should be easy enough to try out....
  
 Re the 6N7G you can buy separately an adapter for 6SN7 sockets and then another octal adapter with pins 7&8 disconnected and instead having two electric leads for external power.
  
 I can also relate to the NO2 example. Adding two 6BL7 tubes to my 4 EL3N tubes in my 6x adapter is akin to turbocharging the EL3N tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Sorry to hear you are having problems with the Elise.  I am running  Tung-Sol 5998's and Visseaux 6n7g's and have zero distortion, combo sounds excellent.  Running them for hours on end and never any hint of distortion. I have the EL3N's, C3Gs, 6AS7G's,, 6080's,6SN7's, 6BL7's,6SN7GT's and I have never had any distortion from any of the tube combo's.  Using Sennheiser 800, JRiver 21, PSAudio Nuwave Dac. I listen to alot of different source material and genre's. Perhaps something went south with the amp? Too much heater load at some time? Hope you get it straightened out


 
 It does sound strange. I have virtually all of the same tubes you have and my experience is the same as yours. The only time I had a real hum problem was heating FDD20s drivers with external DC power, and that was easily solved by running a ground wire from the ground side of the external PS to one of the ground rings on the Elise's RCA inputs. I did have some problem for a while with one of my dual EL3N power adapters, but that was just a matter or re-seating the EL3Ns in the adapter.


----------



## DavidA

HI guys (and gals?) how hot does the Elise get? or rather how much heat is generated compared to the Ember (doesn't really get hot) or a BH Crack (generates quite a bit of heat) or my Lyr2 (very hot).  I almost always have to turn on the AC when using my amps unless Hawaii has a rare cold (sub 20C) night.  I know a few of you will laugh at what I consider cold


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> HI guys (and gals?) how hot does the Elise get? or rather how much heat is generated compared to the Ember (doesn't really get hot) or a BH Crack (generates quite a bit of heat) or my Lyr2 (very hot).  I almost always have to turn on the AC when using my amps unless Hawaii has a rare cold (sub 20C) night.  I know a few of you will laugh at what I consider cold


 
  
 David. My Elise runs much cooler than my Valhalla 2. Right now I'm running the Elise with TS6SN7-GTB/TS5998 combo (which requires no adapters). The metal on the Elise is almost cool to the touch. I can touch the tubes without injury, but I wouldn't want to keep holding them as they are a little warm. But nothing like the V2.
  
 Hard to say about air conditioning. Here in Scottsdale I could be running ice cubes in the Elise and would still have to run the air conditioning 24/7 during the summer. !!!! During the rest of the year I never would have to turn on the AC because of the Elise.


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> David. My Elise runs much cooler than my Valhalla 2. Right now I'm running the Elise with TS6SN7-GTB/TS5998 combo (which requires no adapters). The metal on the Elise is almost cool to the touch. I can touch the tubes without injury, but I wouldn't want to keep holding them as they are a little warm. But nothing like the V2.
> 
> Hard to say about air conditioning. Here in Scottsdale I could be running ice cubes in the Elise and would still have to run the air conditioning 24/7 during the summer. !!!! During the rest of the year I never would have to turn on the AC because of the Elise.


 
 Okay, I know the Valhalla2 is about the same as the Lyr2.  I was getting worried with all those extra power supplies and 6 tube adapters some were using and couldn't help but think of all the heat the tubes would be generating.  My AC unit isn't the most powerful, it can't keep up during the afternoon since my unit is at the end of the building and I get direct sun from about 1:30 to sunset, but I do get a great view of the sunset. 
 Only benefit is that the girls will usually be in bikinis or tank tops


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Audict123,
  
 First of all, I love Audioslave  And secondly, I love FDD20 tubes, I worked really hard to get music out of them, even when to the extent of powering them up with a battery. You should consider the possibility of tubes being faulty or not burned in properly. If I find tubes not working out for me, I stay patient and work things out. I am using a PSU that is about 12V 2A, I don't think raising the 12V to 13 would have any effect on the sound, in tubes we just think about the current draw and I do remember specifically (from a datasheet) that FDD20 are said to operate on 12V about (0.9 exactly) 1A current.
  
 I hope you would fix issues with your Elise.
  
 Best of luck to all the lucky ones.
  
 Cheers
 LR
  
 Quote:


audict123 said:


> Long time since I last posted here. On the picture below, my favourite setup so far. FDD20 drivers with Russian 6H5C powers. The FDD20 is just incredible in combination with the HD650. To describe it shortly: it's like injecting nitrous oxide in the HD650 family van, transforming this very very useful vehicle into a racing car... But with my Elise, it takes particular tubes and voltages to make it work. I like to report my findings here, because I know that others also had trouble getting it to work in the Elise (just like the 6N7G, still working on that...).
> 
> My recipy to get FDD20 to work reliably in Elise:
> - a (variable voltage) lab power supply - in my case a Gopher CPS-3205 - to provide the ~ 13V for the FDD20 heaters. Only very very faint hum, and I don't use a ground wire. This lab power supply proved to be a great tool for me. Changing the voltage from 12 to 14V has dramatic impact on the sound of the FDD20.
> ...


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Okay, I know the Valhalla2 is about the same as the Lyr2.  I was getting worried with all those extra power supplies and 6 tube adapters some were using and couldn't help but think of all the heat the tubes would be generating.  My AC unit isn't the most powerful, it can't keep up during the afternoon since my unit is at the end of the building and I get direct sun from about 1:30 to sunset, but I do get a great view of the sunset.
> Only benefit is that the girls will usually be in bikinis or tank tops


 
 I can't really address the total thermodynamic output (I have no idea what that means. I'm just trying to sound smart) of the system running 6X6BL7s. I will have to leave that to those who can properly isolate the system and measure the thermal quotient to the probability of girls in bikinis


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> I can't really address the total thermodynamic output (I have no idea what that means. I'm just trying to sound smart) of the system running 6X6BL7s. I will have to leave that to those who can properly isolate the system and measure the thermal quotient to the probability of girls in bikinis


 
 I feel like I'm back in freshman year in college lol, I hated thermodynamic class, almost as bad as organic chem, probably why I went on to become a civil and not mech.


----------



## Lord Raven

davida said:


> I feel like I'm back in freshman year in college lol, I hated thermodynamic class, almost as bad as organic chem, probably why I went on to become a civil and not mech.


 
  
 I loved these two subjects to the core of my heart


----------



## Lord Raven

This is shipped today, OK  @UntilThen
  
 LOL What a great time in life... Thank GOD!
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Don't forget this ok?


----------



## JazzVinyl

audict123 said:


> The picture above shows the described setup. Picture taken after playing Audioslave - Show me how to live. Tubes and ears both still glowing, boy this setup rocks . BTW: as you can see, the shrink tubing on my FDD20 adapters is holding up perfectly, even at the edges where heat from the amp could lead to further shrinkage.
> 
> I really like Suuup's idea to build voltage doublers into the adapters. But it won't work for me as 12-12,6V is just not enough. (I measured 6.0V at the heaters of my Elise and 232 volts mains).




Yes, nice job on the heat shrink socks! Glad they are holding up.

On Elise #0019, I have always run exactly 12.6v DC with the additional ground (done at the Power Supply) and never had the slightest hint of distortion using the FDD20 pair, no matter what Powers I used.

It is strange that some folks get different results using the exact same tubes, Probably more than a third report distortions with certain tube combinations. Other have absolutely clear sailing, no matter what they throw at 'er....

Very interesting, indeed.






.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> No more Mazda 6N7G...extinct now but I found this rather interesting tube. Base looks like FDD20 and I love the red colour.


 
  
 This is how it all started LOL


----------



## UntilThen

> Originally Posted by *Lord Raven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This is shipped today, OK  @UntilThen
> 
> LOL What a great time in life... Thank GOD!


 
 Woohoo ... in the meantime get your ears flushed and clean in preparation for sonic wonders. 
  
 Remember what you did when you heard it in my house. You gesture with your hands out stretched to show how wide the soundstage is.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Woohoo ... in the meantime get your ears flushed and clean in preparation for sonic wonders.
> 
> Remember what you did when you heard it in my house. You gesture with your hands out stretched to show how wide the soundstage is.


 
  
 LOL Ok I am going to an ENT tomorrow for a ear canal wash 
  
 The sound stage was gigantic, I could move my head from left to right to see the stage


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> This is how it all started LOL


 
 Yes that fateful day that leads to this. Even the skull is smiling. So @oshipao if you want wide soundstage get this combo and T1. Skull optional.


----------



## Lord Raven

Tonights playlist  Soundtracks, who does not love? Awesome sound!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

LOL how much SQ does a skull add to the rig? 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Yes that fateful day that leads to this. Even the skull is smiling. So @oshipao if you want wide soundstage get this combo and T1. Skull optional.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, nice job on the heat shrink socks! Glad they are holding up.
> 
> On Elise #0019, I have always run exactly 12.6v DC with the additional ground (done at the Power Supply) and never had the slightest hint of distortion using the FDD20 pair, no matter what Powers I used.
> 
> ...


 
 I too find it very strange why some just gets hum and distortion using FDD20, 6N7G and 5998 or for that matter other power tubes. 
  
 To those who are able to hear it Humphrey, man .... they sound gorgeous. 
  
@connieflyer go easy on the Glennfiddich when listening with Visseaux 6N7G and 5998. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This was how it looks before it travelled to you.


----------



## UntilThen

> Originally Posted by *Lord Raven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> LOL how much SQ does a skull add to the rig?


 
  
 A LOT !!!
  
 Have you ever heard a skull laugh? When the jaw open and close at 55kph and the teeth hitting each other? Try it with Heavy Metal music.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> A LOT !!!
> 
> Have you ever heard a skull laugh? When the jaw open and close at 55kph and the teeth hitting each other? Try it with Heavy Metal music.


 
  
 I need to borrow your HD650 for Heavy Metal and your skull too


----------



## Lord Raven

Next up: Isaac Hayes = Dope 
  
 I got to change the 5998 tubes, the bass is hitting so hard on them LOL


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I need to borrow your HD650 for Heavy Metal and your skull too


 
 Remember it's a *HD850* now. You should hear it again.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Remember it's a *HD850* now. You should hear it again.


 
  
 LOL That would be awesome  Listen to Isaac Hayes!!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Glenfiddich is done for now, momentary weakness, it shall not happen again (at least not until next time!).  The Visseaux look different then when you had them, perhaps from the long swim over here they got waterlogged!  Definatly dried out now!  Nice glow with the 5998's, no reading light needed!


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yeah I posted the Mazda 6N7G picture instead but the Visseaux 6N7G look identical except for the lettering.

My broadband is down resorting to mobilephone now. 
Telecoms doing some work outside.

It's times like this that I'm happy I still have LPs to listen to.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Oh yeah I posted the Mazda 6N7G picture instead but the Visseaux 6N7G look identical except for the lettering.
> 
> My broadband is down resorting to mobilephone now.
> Telecoms doing some work outside.


 
 You mean me? I run in the telecoms LOL


----------



## connieflyer

I hate using the phone for text, small tiny letters big fingers guaranty a double strike!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> You mean me? I run in the telecoms LOL




Yeah you Mr Telecoms what are you doing to my broadband.


----------



## Lord Raven

If anyone wants a good price on Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohms.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Yeah you Mr Telecoms what are you doing to my broadband.


 
 Looks like you're still online, let me check again


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> If anyone wants a good price on Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohms.




When did you have a Dt880 600ohms? 
I will offer you $100 for it.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> When did you have a Dt880 600ohms?
> I will offer you $100 for it.


 
 Sorry price is fixed LOL 
  
 It is not mine, bro  You have a weak spot for DT880 hehe


----------



## mordy

Here is the Vienna Philharmonic playing with French guest conductor and a little American muscle:
  





  

```
[left] C'est tellement beau![/left]
```
  
 This is so beautiful! Never heard the Mazda 6N7G sound so nice. There is a certain warm glow to the mid range sound.
  
 Guide to the first sentence:
  
 Vienna Philharmonic: These EL3N tubes are made in Vienna, Austria. French guest conductor: The driver tubes are made in France. The American muscle is powered by a V8.
  
 This combination is hum free.
  
 So you ask: Why does the right white bathtub adapter have a blue sticker on it? Answer: To indicate that the guide pin broke off and I have to be very careful to put it in correctly in the socket - notch indicated by the red line. (I think that this happened to somebody else as well).
  
*Let's go to Vienna!*
  
 Here is the great Herbert von Karajan directing the Vienna Philharmonic. It is absolutely fascinating how he has the 100(?) piece band and the huge audience under total control, literally at his finger tips. His face looks cut out of granite...
  

  
  
 If you like this type of music, the entire 1987 New Year concert is available on YouTube.


----------



## UntilThen

DT880 was the first full size headphone I bought. I never got to hear it with Elise sigh. I sold it....

First love you know? I went to the headphone shop to test out HD600 Hd650 and Dt880 and walk out with the Dt880.

2 weeks later I went back and got the Hd650.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Mordy you're humphrey too.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> DT880 was the first full size headphone I bought. I never got to hear it with Elise sigh. I sold it....
> 
> First love you know? I went to the headphone shop to test out HD600 Hd650 and Dt880 and walk out with the Dt880.
> 
> 2 weeks later I went back and got the Hd650.


 
 I remember everything


----------



## Lord Raven

Awesome SACD I am listening to right now 
  
 Penguin Cafe Orchestra - Broadcasting From Home!!!!


----------



## Lord Raven

Mordy listen to the album I just posted  Looks like the tubes alone worth more than Elise, I cannot imagine the sound stage, must be huge.
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> Here is the Vienna Philharmonic playing with French guest conductor and a little American muscle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Alright the site of many topics and great opinions. I have a question for you gurus. 
  
 I have a choice of iPhone 6S plus, Samsung Note 5 or Samsung Galaxy S7 edge. Which should I get?


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Alright the site of many topics and great opinions. I have a question for you gurus.
> 
> I have a choice of iPhone 6S plus, Samsung Note 5 or Samsung Galaxy S7 edge. Which should I get?


 
  
 Samsung has tubes installed in it


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Samsung has tubes installed in it


 
 Omg now I can go tubeless and yet get tube sound with Samsung.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright the site of many topics and great opinions. I have a question for you gurus.
> 
> I have a choice of iPhone 6S plus, Samsung Note 5 or Samsung Galaxy S7 edge. Which should I get?


 
 You love ancient, outmoded technology. I suggest:


----------



## connieflyer

Ut I have a pair I could send you one of mine...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright the site of many topics and great opinions. I have a question for you gurus.
> 
> I have a choice of iPhone 6S plus, Samsung Note 5 or Samsung Galaxy S7 edge. Which should I get?


 
 OK. I will try a serious answer. I don't know anything about Apple anything. But I have a Note 4 and my wife has the 6S. The Note 4 is ok, but she seems to yell at her phone far less than I do. Could be difference in personality, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Oh yeah. I forgot. The serious answer. If it is between the Note 5 and the S7 Edge, I'd go with the Edge. Samsung eliminated the memory slot in the Note 5, but restored it in the S7 Edge.


----------



## UntilThen

I need some real answers not this.


----------



## connieflyer

LOIS!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I'm swaying towards a S7 Edge too and in gold !!!
  
 But here's where I roll in my vintage Fivre 6A6 with 5998 today. Great sound. Labels still intact.


----------



## UntilThen

Ha another compelling reason to go with the Edge


----------



## mordy

Hi LR,
  
 Just did the math - you are right. All those tubes and adapters and power supplies etc cost almost as much as my Elise (introductory price $499). I didn't really realize how much it adds up to. So now I have a $1000.00 dollar amp that sounds like a million dollars....


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I need some real answers not this.




Apple is the ONLY way to go...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Buy one of thiose Android phones and this will be your theme song. ;0:


[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B48utJHYDTA [/VIDEO]







..


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another one for LR to chase away the blues while fasting:


[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jnOmaZIt0[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

So we have Apple and Android fans. More research required.


----------



## UntilThen

So I bought Neil Diamond double LP 'Hot August Night' and it's hot.
  

  
  
 Sweet Caroline - one of my fav tunes in my younger days. 

  
 and Crackling Rosie


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> So I bought Neil Diamond double LP 'Hot August Night' and it's hot.





Hmmm, the videos are a little creepy with a big orchestra, brass section and background singers that aren't part of the show.

But they are...kinda. 

Must have been made for a TV special?


----------



## UntilThen

Old youtube videos are never good. They are not replica of what's in the LP. The LPs sound great.


----------



## DecentLevi

*About the FDD20*'s, I've tried my pair multiple times paired with many different powers, and to me they always sounded too bright and lean in the lows, but especially an unbearable hummm and distortion at all reasonable levels. So I've just given up on those and well sell them when I get around to it.
  
*About DT 880*'s, I tested the 32-ohm pair I used to own on the Elise and here were my notes:
  
_*Beyerdynamic DT-880 Vs. HD 650*: DT-880 sound generally flat, non-engaging sound with forward treble & lows take a few steps back. Tonality seems slightly more lifelike however_
_Vs. HD-650: drums hit about 2x harder (good dynamics). Mids much more forward / lush, instrument separation 2-3x better, soundstage at least 50% bigger. Bass about 2x more full / authoritative._
  
 I'll warn you the DT-880 is not a good pairing with the Elise, unless somehow the 600 ohm version changes everything
  
*About UT's cell phone quest*: I vote for the Samsung Edge. It's gotta be the most versatile phone brand in terms of open source / app compatibility


----------



## DecentLevi

BTW I keep noticing myself on the right column - yup that's me under the arrow


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen: my vote is for Samsung, I still have my "old" Galaxy S5, works great and since you can open them up to change the memory card and battery I didn't get the free "upgrade" to S6 or 6Edge, but looking at the S7.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @UntilThen: my vote is for Samsung, I still have my "old" Galaxy S5, works great and since you can open them up to change the memory card and battery I didn't get the free "upgrade" to S6 or 6Edge, but looking at the S7.


 
 Ok keep the votes coming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm going from a S4.. so I'm even more outdated. Thinking of the S7 edge but wondering if there are covers that will fit the edge and still works. Saw a few nice covers, so that's looking good.
  
 I'd like it to have nice quality photos from the camera and wouldn't hurt if it did play the odd Pink Floyd DSOTM.
  
 This is one of the cover.
  

  
 or


----------



## Audict123

decentlevi said:


> *About the FDD20*'s, I've tried my pair multiple times paired with many different powers, and to me they always sounded too bright and lean in the lows, but especially an unbearable hummm and distortion at all reasonable levels. So I've just given up on those and well sell them when I get around to it.


 
  
 Sounds like you are running it at too low voltage! The FDD20 is NOT a 12V tube but 13V. AT 12V, I get distortion too. The hum is probably related to the quality of your 12V power supply. Regarding voltage vs dynamics: if you run it too low, dynamics will suffer. I can promise you my FDD20 with eg the stock Russian powers at slightly above 13V is everything but lean. Bright? Yes, there is ample treble energy, but with huge bass to match. Compared to this, the 5998+C3Gs combo pales, particuarly at the bottom end.


----------



## UntilThen

I have no problem running my FDD20 with 12V 6A laptop power supply. Sound is vibrant and bass is more than solid with 5998. Not a hint of hum. I use the same external power supply for FDD20 / ECC31. Mine has a 3 pin plug and I don't even need to run a separate ground wire.
  
 I think there are quite a few of us using that 12V power supply with excellent results.
  
 Some has just never been able to get this to work. Unfortunately they are afflicted with hum. Likewise for the 6N7G. Works really well with many of us.
  
 If you find the FDD20 bright and lean, you've not had a chance to burn it in. It will open up with a nice texture and superb clarity. Bass is there too but not in the same dollop as the ECC31.


----------



## Audict123

BTW DecentLevi: how is your Elise in combination with 6N7G?
  
 As others have indicated some Elise amps seem to take everything without complaining, whilst others are finicky. My experiments with the FDD20 at least seem to indicate that all is not lost for the latter group. Furthermore: some may not necessarily have real problems, but that is not the same as saying that the tubes run at their best. An external lab power supply at least gives the opportunity to dial in one parameter: the heater voltage, and therewith the emission of the driver tube. I feel that for my Elise it could be just a bit on the low side for the 6N7G when fed with 6.0 V (the heater voltage in my Elise). 6.3 is the datasheet voltage. The higher you run it, the shorter the tube may live, but adding some 5% is considered to be harmless. So I intend to try voltages up to 6.6V. The FDD20 experiments I did show that adding 0.6V can make all the difference between high distortion at normal listening volumes and pristine clear sound.


----------



## Audict123

UntilThen: did you actually measure the voltage your adapter outputs? If it is a non-regulated power supply, you may get quite a bit higher voltage when the maximum amperage is not used. I have 12V adapters that output as much as 13,8V when run below their maximum A!


----------



## UntilThen

Not I did not measure. I'm not that technical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't use it much now anyway. Find external power supply too troublesome. 
  
 I can assure you they sound like they are running at their best, no doubt about it. LR love the sound when he heard it at my place. He's got his going too back home after much grounding that he had to do.


----------



## DecentLevi

Sorry I don't have any 6N7 tubes
  
 Well I'm trying to find better driver tubes to show the Elise in top flight at the Head Fi meet next month. But I'm on a no-income shoestring budget.
 My chosen power tubes are still the 6BL7 with EL3N intermixed, and to pair well with it, I'd need drivers that are moderately bright, full, more solid-state like than 'colored', and good soundstage.
 I don't suppose an externally heated combo would put it in a very good light as it's first appearance at a public trade show though.
  
 Anyway maybe I'll give my FDD20's another shot if I can find an external P/S for not much over $30 and that works with minimal hum on only a 2-prong wall outlet... and as I take it, 13volts


----------



## UntilThen

Elise will sound splendid with a good pair of 6SN7 and 6AS7. That's what I'd suggest taking to the meet. Go with C3G and 5998 and you might get some interest. I'll bring EL3Ns to the next meet.


----------



## UntilThen

Take this along. It will sound great with your HD650 besides looking very smart.


----------



## DecentLevi

Nah, I think I'll display the Elise just like this for it's "bold entrance" into a public trade show. With this reference-grade Logitech headset from Walmart for the 'discerning audiophile'

  
 ... or maybe that setup is more suited for a freak show 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Actually this has been my go-to setup lately. I think it looks beautiful and sounds sweet and stunning:

  
 Most likely this will be my meet setup:

  
 PS- I don't have the 5998 and gave away my C3G with adapter


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> So you ask: Why does the right white bathtub adapter have a blue sticker on it? Answer: To indicate that the guide pin broke off and I have to be very careful to put it in correctly in the socket - notch indicated by the red line. (I think that this happened to somebody else as well).




Yes, it did. :mad:


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> So we have Apple and Android fans. More research required.




Well, this tablet has Android on it, I mostly use Ubuntu and OS X on computers, so obviously I got myself a cheap Windows phone or two. I must be different…


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Well, this tablet has Android on it, I mostly use Ubuntu and OS X on computers, so obviously I got myself a cheap Windows phone or two. I must be different…


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


>




That's my middle name.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> So I bought Neil Diamond double LP 'Hot August Night' and it's hot.


 
 Probably my all-time favorite LP album I ever owned. I wore out the first set and was well on the way to wearing out the second set when I sold my LP collection.
  
 Hope you can try it on your tower speakers with subwoofer. That's at least one album that headphones just can't do full justice to.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Probably my all-time favorite LP album I ever owned. I wore out the first set and was well on the way to wearing out the second set when I sold my LP collection.
> 
> Hope you can try it on your tower speakers with subwoofer. That's at least one album that headphones just can't do full justice to.


 

 Ok I'll blast it on the speakers plus subwoofer tomorrow but for now the 1 Tesla T1 is moving Mt Everest. This is Neil Diamond at his prime. It's going to wear my diamond stylus out. I do love this album.
  
 Here's Solitary Man


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> *About the FDD20*'s, I've tried my pair multiple times paired with many different powers, and to me they always sounded too bright and lean in the lows, but especially an unbearable hummm and distortion at all reasonable levels. So I've just given up on those and well sell them when I get around to it.




Hummmmm has to be a grounding problem. 

If they are humming, no wonder you don't like them. 

Run mine at regulated 12.6v and they are fantastic sounding, lots of deep, tight defined/articulated bass...

Get that hum fixed, DL.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Ok I'll blast it on the speakers plus subwoofer tomorrow but for now the 1 Tesla T1 is moving Mt Everest. This is Neil Diamond at his prime. It's going to wear my diamond stylus out. I do love this album.
> 
> Here's Solitary Man




  
 I want Neil Diamond next  What is the serial number on your Tesla T1 diamond mount everest?  Just curious...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> I want Neil Diamond next  What is the serial number on your Tesla T1 diamond mount everest?  Just curious...


 

 5163


----------



## UntilThen

This is the start of blue jeans. Remember your Levis?


----------



## pctazhp

Despite being advised by a couple of highly respected members of this thread before I ordered it that I had the refinement and taste of an 8-year old - that isn't exactly what they said but it's what they meant ))) - I ordered this glorious headphone stand which now graces my desktop. I am so enamored with it, I am considering starting a thread dedicated solely to this work of art. At least if I got in any arguments on that thread I would be arguing with myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Edit:For those of you who cannot live without this masterpiece, but are embarrassed to ask, it is available at: 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gaming-Double-Headset-Headphone-Hanger-Stand-with-valve-Industrial-Stea/261904729191?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37184%26meid%3D37c49450a23d4bbea1f36e482dd3d033%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262434480602


----------



## mordy

May a suggest a low cost solution - less than $3 shipped:
  




  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Styrofoam-Foam-Male-Mannequin-Manikin-Head-Model-Wig-Glasses-Hat-Display-Stand-/272224349534?hash=item3f61d5ed5e:g:laMAAOSwWKtUwFqv


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, that is an expensive stand


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> @pctazhp, that is an expensive stand


 
 I know, but it works perfectly for me. It is heavy and doesn't move or fall over. I always have two headphones on my desktop. The HD800S and the Samsung Level On for my phone. This stand gives me a place to keep both headsets out of my way but easy to reach, and avoids cables getting all tangled up. Believe me, the price is worth it for me )))


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> May a suggest a low cost solution - less than $3 shipped:


 
  
 Sure you can for someone looking for something like that. I need something I can hang both the phones I use interchangeably (one for listening and one for my phone), that is out of the way but easy to take off and put back each headphone with one hand ))))


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> I know, but it works perfectly for me. It is heavy and doesn't move or fall over. I always have two headphones on my desktop. The HD800S and the Samsung Level On for my phone. This stand gives me a place to keep both headsets out of my way but easy to reach, and avoids cables getting all tangled up. Believe me, the price is worth it for me )))


 
 I've been trying to design a headphone stand or two for my listening area, haven't quite figured out exactly what I want but have decided a few things:
  
 use a 1/4 section of 10" PVC pipe covered with a thin memory foam and then covered with leather to rest the headphones on
 use the legs of a tripod for their adjustability since I might end up putting the stands on the floor next to my listening table, have a screw in mount on the base so they can be removed, also wrapped with pipe insulation or leather to protect the sides of the headphones
 haven't decided on the base yet, I was thinking a piece of granite, tile, block of wood, etc
 another thing I'm looking at is headphones like the K7XX and X1 have suspension systems that you don't want to always be suspended since the elastic will wear out.
  
 I understand the problem of weight since the LCD series are quite heavy, also the height of the stand needs to be at least 12" to keep the cables from being kinked too much on the bottom.


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> I've been trying to design a headphone stand or two for my listening area, haven't quite figured out exactly what I want but have decided a few things:
> 
> use a 1/4 section of 10" PVC pipe covered with a thin memory foam and then covered with leather to rest the headphones on
> use the legs of a tripod for their adjustability since I might end up putting the stands on the floor next to my listening table, have a screw in mount on the base so they can be removed, also wrapped with pipe insulation or leather to protect the sides of the headphones
> ...


 
 My best laugh of the week!!! Me picturing myself trying to do something like that ))))))))))


----------



## Lord Raven

Loved Neil Diamond! I want him now!


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> My best laugh of the week!!! Me picturing myself trying to do something like that ))))))))))


 
 This is what happens when you get a retired engineer / wood craftsman with too much spare time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, some times its like analysis paralysis, which is also happening with my decision on the Elise and other amps I'm considering.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Edit:For those of you who cannot live without this masterpiece, but are embarrassed to ask, it is available at:


 
  
 Do they have one that makes Cappuccino  when you turn the red knob?


----------



## UntilThen

Just strapped on HE560 because my ear pads for T1 and HD650 are being washed and dried. 
  
 Volume at 11am using EL3N and stock power tubes, these planar magnetics comes alive. Clarity, details, air between instruments and that sweet gorgeous midrange. In short HE560 is perfect pairing with Elise. 5 stars recommendation.
  
 Your Hifiman salesman,
 UT


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Do they have one that makes Cappuccino  when you turn the red knob?


 
  
 No Cappuccino ((( But think of it this way. Some have a Liquid Carbon and some have an Elise, BUT I'm the only one who has a Liquid Elise ("LE")


----------



## nykobing

I have never put my HE-400i in the elise, I wonder how it would work.  I also have realized now why I don't like the el3n, it completely lacks air and any real space between the instruments, at least for me. It sounds great, wonderful soundstage, etc, then I put in some 6sn7s and all this air between the instruments comes back.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Michael Manring:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVupBLH6NUY[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

Love this version


----------



## JazzVinyl

Goodness....something a little more recent 




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPwAeodZGjI[/VIDEO]


----------



## geetarman49

i'm 11 pages behind, but thought i'd pop in & say that i have a tracking #


----------



## DecentLevi

What a whole day without handfuls of posts frothing on how fantastic the Elise sounds? Well I'll add somethin' then
  
 I just A/B'd my electrostatic rig with Elise as a preamp vs. direct to the DAC, and I'll tell ya - direct to my DAC the stage seemed very flat (half arms width) with a very dull sounding mix, whereas with the Elise as a preamp my arms could extend fully with my hands pointing outward to a seemingly infinite soundstage, and the instrument separation was doubled.
  
 Oddly though I only prefer my electrostatic rig for all the awesome abstract noize excursions, while direct to the Elise wins for music listening.
  
  
 Speaking of noise, for anybody who may still be on the sidelines, I came across a site for some freakishly awesome and high quality downloads for free here:
http://www.frameworkradio.net/archive/
 12-year archive here ^^


----------



## Lord Raven

geetarman49 said:


> i'm 11 pages behind, but thought i'd pop in & say that i have a tracking #


 
  
 Awesome, G'man  It mean's you'll get it soon, prepare yourself with all the tube combos and cables and make room for the Elise hehe
  
 Good luck!
 LR


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Another one for LR to chase away the blues while fasting:


 
  
 Thank you JV, love your recommendations


----------



## Lord Raven

decentlevi said:


> BTW I keep noticing myself on the right column - yup that's me under the arrow


 
  
 Looks like war room


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> i'm 11 pages behind, but thought i'd pop in & say that i have a tracking #




Ha!

And soon ye shall be a *LUCKY ONE*!!!

Congrats!


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Re the headphone comparison "war room" picture - I thought only guys with grey hair had the patience for this!


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> This is what happens when you get a retired engineer / wood craftsman with too much spare time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think a decision to buy the Elise comes less from analysis and more from epiphany or spiritual awakening ))) I'd be happy to send you some crystals from Sedona if they would help )) I'd even send you my new headphone stand which I am now convinced possesses strong mystical powers that can lead to great insight


----------



## UntilThen

My dear @connieflyer , my condolence on the passing of your dear wife. Here's hoping you'll stay strong and find comfort in this time of grief.
  
 I'm sharing this as I know you've many friends here.
  
 May the constant love of caring friends
 soften your sadness
 May cherished memories
 bring you moments of comfort
 May lasting peace surround your grieving heart.


----------



## HOWIE13

@connieflyer
 Don, I am so sorry to learn the sad news about your dear wife. Given time, the happy memories and the support of all your friends, including those on Head Fi, I'm sure will sustain you as you come to terms with your sad loss. My thoughts are with you. Howard.


----------



## Suuup

nykobing said:


> I have never put my HE-400i in the elise, I wonder how it would work.  I also have realized now why I don't like the el3n, it completely lacks air and any real space between the instruments, at least for me. It sounds great, wonderful soundstage, etc, then I put in some 6sn7s and all this air between the instruments comes back.


 
 Agree!


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> i'm 11 pages behind, but thought i'd pop in & say that i have a tracking #


 
 WOW-  that's great news. 
 I've just received my tracking number too.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> Re the headphone comparison "war room" picture - I thought only guys with grey hair had the patience for this!


 
 Well I'd say the classic greying audiophile is more of the definition of decades past, and nowadays is slowly shifting to a younger crowd - with the unprecedented expansion of hi-end consumer audio products of the past 10 years comes new followers - or perhaps it's the popularity of the likes of Beats / Bose / Skullcandy spurring users on a path to find if that's really all there is. 
  
 I had no idea about Don's wife. Well I feel for you, and am sure you'll need quite some R&R
  
 PS- I do have a few dozen grey hairs and am actually just a couple years away from ... 40


----------



## DoCZero

Anyone tried this amp with the Hifiman Edition X or Fostex massdrop th-x00?


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, my condolences on the passing of your dear wife


----------



## UntilThen

doczero said:


> Anyone tried this amp with the Hifiman Edition X or Fostex massdrop th-x00?




@B-60 use HEX with Elise and like it. He hasn't been on for a while.

ps he's loving EL3N as drivers.

I heard Fostex th-x00 at a meet with Elise. Very short listening session but it sounded good.


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> I have never put my HE-400i in the elise, I wonder how it would work.  I also have realized now why I don't like the el3n, it completely lacks air and any real space between the instruments, at least for me. It sounds great, wonderful soundstage, etc, then I put in some 6sn7s and all this air between the instruments comes back.




Air and texture amongst instruments is EL3N strength. Perhaps burning in the tubes is the way to go.

No matter there will be some here who doesn't like EL3N.

As for me I'll be following Glenn's personal project on a customized EL3N tube amp with interest.


----------



## Lord Raven

My sincere condolences are with Don, I am so sad today, spent all day watching Mohammed Ali's funeral and now this sad news in the forum. I hope and wish the best for him for future.


----------



## Lord Raven

Everybody, the HD600 bundle with a $150 Amazon gift card for $400 is active, making the HD600 $250 only. If anyone wants a classic flagship from Sennheiser!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0199APD94


----------



## UntilThen

Or they could just buy the HD600 for $250. Why do you need $150 Amazon gift card.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Or they could just buy the HD600 for $250. Why do you need $150 Amazon gift card.


 
  
 Where is HD600 new for 250? Gift card can be used to buy more audio stuff.. LPs for example!


----------



## richdytch

Condolences and best wishes to Don on this sad news.


----------



## oshipao

connieflyer

I am very sorry to hear about the loss. My thoughts are with you.


----------



## supersonic395

@connieflyer 

Very sorry to hear about your loss, my deepest condolences to you.


----------



## DecentLevi

Don, for your wife: Listen loudly - may you find light in the tunnel

*Thomas Dolby - I love You Goodbye* (1992)


----------



## DecentLevi

So a few findings from rolling almost a dozen more combos of my current tubes:
  
 Contrary to my previous test, this time there was no loud buzz when rolling 6SN7's with EL3N as power tubes (with the dual 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapter.) After rolling at least 4 combinations of 6SN7 then replacing the 6BL7 again alongside EL3N in the back, it became quite clear to me how superior this combo really is: everything is more vivid and energetic, and you're taken deeper into the music - nothing overdone, nothing underdone - just pure tranquility and blissful sonic brilliance!
  
 And for those who are a fan of soundstage / instrument separation, the Elise really shines with dual (or even triple) tube setups per socket - such as the above knockout performer (2x EL3N + 2x 6BL7 intermixed), plus two dual 6J5 as drivers, for example. To me, this had slightly better imaging, tonality, dynamics and clarity compared with two EL3N's as drivers - slightly sweeter than weighty.
  
 Finally a budget solution for reducing hum issues: all my tube rolling experience has pointed to the most likely cultprit of buzz being the tube itself. If you have more than one of the same tube type, try the process of elimination: swap one tube at a time and listen for any subtle differences in noise, until eventually you may just find the quietest pair!


----------



## DecentLevi

I still prefer select 6SN7's as drivers when it comes to electronic music though, for that tightly articulated sound with not much more sounstage than called for


----------



## TomNC

Elise has just been endorsed by a reputable head-fi'er. Google it. PM me if you are interested but cannot find the source.
  
 It is nice to see all the impressions at this thread match well with those from other sources.


----------



## DecentLevi

Tom NC, can you share the link? My several Google searches have only brought up this thread and the Feliks Audio site


----------



## UntilThen

Very funny. I Google and it came back with this. My own review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.facebook.com/HeadFi/posts/10153776229732486


----------



## DecentLevi

The review is on a Head-Fi competitor site that's strictly banned by moderators, so we're not advised to post the link or mention the name on Head-Fi. Anyone curious can ask for a PM from TomNC. The thread there is not indexed by Google yet, but you can find in on that audiophile forum not to be named that's F A B S in reverse


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Tom. Well we know all along how wonderful Elise sounds. These guys are just about to find out.
  
 My mind just goes back to how it all started and again I must give credit to @hypnos1 
  
 It was he who seek Feliks Audio out and propose the idea of designing a tube amp around the 6SN7 and 6AS7 at the affordable price point of $500 to $600 mark. If you read the 1st Elise thread, you'll see how it all began.
  
 Well this endorser says it's worthy even up to $1000. My contention is that it will compete and outperform the Woo Wa2 and Wa6se both of which I have heard at the Sydney meet and they are more than twice Elise cost.
  
 Congrats to Feliks Audio. It's a job well done and Elise is a very good tube amp at that price point. Henryk knows his stuff.
  
 Now watch the delivery times stretch even longer. Cheers to those who already have one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ps..see I wasn't wrong about HE560 pairing well with Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

When I was at the Sydney meet, there was this elderly gentleman name John. He ask to listen to my Elise. I said sure, go for it. Whilst the rest of us have lunch, he sat there listening with my T1. Tubes in Elise were Raytheon 7N7 and Tung Sol 5998. He was listening to Diana Krall from my simple setup - Fiio x5 direct into Elise.
  
 When I came back from lunch, John met me smiling. I ask him how is it? He nodded his head and said it sounded very good and promptly went back to the 'expensive' corner. Well that corner was where all the Stax SR-009 and and Blue Hawaii electrostatic amps with Yggy DAC were.
  
 It was good to get endorsement from John who also own those expensive Stax and associated equipment back home. John was with Wink, who own those expensive equipment.


----------



## pctazhp

Very interesting thread developing there. I really wish at least one person on that thread could hear what I'm hearing right now. I've made a slight change to my "end game". Still using the TS6SN7-GTB drivers, but have substituted 6520s for the power 5998s.  A little more musical than the 5998. The 6080 is good, but just doesn't bring my system close to the level I have achieved - at least for my ears.
  
 I'm trying hard to avoid overstatement, but honestly I really can't imagine how a headphone amp can get significantly better.
  
 They mention the Valhalla 2 - HA)))). NOT EVEN CLOSE !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Well it's so far apart you sold off your Valhalla 2.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That guy who provided Elise in that thread bought Jerick's Elise. Jerick must be regretting now that he sold it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Well it's so far apart you sold off your Valhalla 2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Actually, I still have the V2, but never use it. I haven't tried to sell it because I have no feedback as a seller. I probably should try to sell it and my Little Dot Mk IV SE. Then I could afford a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs )))
  
 I also want to comment on the suggestion on that thread that perhaps other amps might have a little more slam than the Elise. In my not-so-humble opinion if someone wants more slam from the Elise then if they don't already have the T1 they should get it.
  
 With my "end game" combo I find the dynamics very realistic and NEVER experience any desire for more slam.


----------



## UntilThen

HD800 and T1 will go very well with Elise. Both G1 and G2 versions. You just have to pair it with different tubes. I like my modded HD650 with Elise too.
  
 Of my 3 headphones, my preference in the order are T1 G1, modded HD650 and HFM HE560.
  
 I don't dig heavy bass slam now. My notion of good bass is tight, controlled and impactful and this Elise will dish up very well. Anymore bass and it'll be a basshead. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Elise sound signature is fast, articulate, dynamic, energetic and impactful with that right touch of tube warm. Not too much not too little. It's just right to my ears.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Elise sound signature is fast, articulate, dynamic, energetic and impactful with that right touch of tube warm. Not too much not too little. It's just right to my ears.


 
  
 I totally agree. Pretty much says it all.


----------



## nykobing

I bought some socket savers for my Elise and they ended up being worthless. They hum with every tube. They came kind of dirty and I even gave the pins a good cleaning.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCS-8pin-K8A-Testing-Tube-Socket-Saver-For-EL34-5881-6SN7-KT88-5Z3P-5AR4-274B-/201089492161?hash=item2ed1de24c1:g:lxwAAOSwujFXGED0
  
  
 Has any one tried the ones from  xulingmrs , http://www.ebay.com/itm/201284108726?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ?
  
 I use one from tubemonger in another amp and it is great, but they are 40 bucks a piece and ugly white.


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> I bought some socket savers for my Elise and they ended up being worthless. They hum with every tube. They came kind of dirty and I even gave the pins a good cleaning.


 
 I have both the black and gold plated versions and they are both humless or harmless.  Totally silent. I got the gold ones from Mrs Xuling and the black ones from someone else.
  
 These are the ones.
  

  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6L6-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t


----------



## nykobing

I guess I will give the gold ones a try, even though they are kind of gaudy. I haven't removed my Chatham 2399 much, but was kind of surprised to see the socket is now quite a bit darker than the driver sockets.


----------



## Lord Raven

Where is the review? LOL I am serial number 13, I knew Elise will kick some ass  I think more than 50 are sold now, I feel like ordering one more as a backup.. hehe


----------



## Oskari

nykobing said:


> I guess I will give the gold ones a try, even though they are kind of gaudy.




Surprisingly, imho, they blend in. Not gaudy at all.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Where is the review? LOL I am serial number 13, I knew Elise will kick some ass  I think more than 50 are sold now, I feel like ordering one more as a backup.. hehe


 

 It's my review. Didn't you see my famous review with lots of humor? Who needs a solemn review these days.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wait...didn't you come to my place in Sydney and hear it for yourself? Of course you did. Yours is 13 .... mine is number 22. Catch 22.
  
 I'll PM you the link.
  
 Not a formal review btw. Just an impression.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> It's my review. Didn't you see my famous review with lots of humor? Who needs a solemn review these days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL I found the link myself, the video they posted is so funny, kind of feeling sad for the Polish people now 
  
 Yes, you Elise is definitely tad better with all that noise-free environment and variety of HPs.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> LOL I found the link myself, the video they posted is so funny, kind of feeling sad for the Polish people now
> 
> Yes, you Elise is definitely tad better with all that noise-free environment and variety of HPs.


 

 Of course. Elise with all that fresh air in Australia will sound better and hum free. They are selling bottled fresh Blue Mountains air to China now. You can breathe 18 times of fresh air from each bottle. 
  
 http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/entrepreneur/australian-entrepreneurs-sell-cans-of-clean-australian-air-to-china-20160502-gojw1x.html


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Of course. Elise with all that fresh air in Australia will sound better and hum free. They are selling bottled fresh Blue Mountains air to China now. You can breathe 18 times of fresh air from each bottle.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/entrepreneur/australian-entrepreneurs-sell-cans-of-clean-australian-air-to-china-20160502-gojw1x.html


 
  
 I thought Canada was selling bottled fresh air  Now you guys? OMG!!!
  
 Finally I get to see inside Elise hehe


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Of course. Elise with all that fresh air in Australia will sound better and hum free. They are selling bottled fresh Blue Mountains air to China now. You can breathe 18 times of fresh air from each bottle.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/entrepreneur/australian-entrepreneurs-sell-cans-of-clean-australian-air-to-china-20160502-gojw1x.html


 
 Hey. As Thomas Jefferson once said: "All Elise's are created equal". And it's a wonderful world everywhere. Just ask Sarah


----------



## pctazhp

But don't worry, @UntilThen. For all of us, you're still the one


----------



## UntilThen

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Surprisingly, imho, they blend in. Not gaudy at all.


 

 You're a man of great taste like me. This looks beautiful right?


----------



## UntilThen

Or do you prefer the French colors?
  
 This is DNA Stratus competitor in sound. Lukasz, are you looking in? This for Mk 2 ok?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Or do you prefer the French colors?




That blue band… perhaps a bit too much. Yes/no? Lol. Sorry.


----------



## Lord Raven

I LOVE ELTON JOHN! Thank you for this treat


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> HD800 and T1 will go very well with Elise. Both G1 and G2 versions. You just have to pair it with different tubes. I like my modded HD650 with Elise too.
> 
> Of my 3 headphones, my preference in the order are T1 G1, modded HD650 and HFM HE560.
> 
> ...


 
_'Elise sound signature is fast, articulate, dynamic, energetic and impactful with that right touch of tube warm. Not too much not too little. It's just right to my ears'._
  
 -Should be perfect for late Baroque, and much else Classical.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> _'Elise sound signature is fast, articulate, dynamic, energetic and impactful with that right touch of tube warm. Not too much not too little. It's just right to my ears'._
> 
> -Should be perfect for late Baroque, and much else Classical.


 

 Which reminds me of my chart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to familiarize with this. Still a works in progress for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At the moment, quite crazy about Bolero by Ravel and he's Modern / 20th Century.
  

  
 I wouldn't compartmentalize Elise. She's equally adapt at rock, jazz, blues, classical, soundtrack and even heavy metal if you so choose. Not forgetting Dubstep !!!


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Which reminds me of my chart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe even at my age Elise will expand my horizons, though Classical takes in most Genres in terms of pure sound anyway-just consider all those different composer's styles on your excellent chart!


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Maybe even at my age Elise will expand my horizons, though Classical takes in most Genres in terms of pure sound anyway-just consider all those different composer's styles on your excellent chart!


 

 Ok it's not my chart lol. I got it off the internet. I started to explore and seek out as I wanted to know more of the origin and developments of classical through that period.
  
 I was fascinated no doubt by all the composers, their lives, their influence, etc.


----------



## pctazhp

Speaking of "classic" music, for me to get my Monday started off right, it's Opry time


----------



## Lord Raven

Is it worth buying? A1834 or something else?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172237086249


----------



## Lord Raven

Ok guys, I asked you to tell me not to start bidding on it  LOL Price is now 137 USD, when I told you, it was only 17$


----------



## richdytch

Good day to you all. Today, my first big breakthrough... A week ago or so, I ordered some cheap, supposedly unremarkable Ken Rad 6SN7 tubes. They arrived today and it turns out that with the Chatham 6AS7G they are actually rather special. And improving. They've a lovely airy top end, a silkiness in the mids and plenty of nice, firm bass. They're making me very happy indeed. I think it's the remarkable top end that's contributing to the overall improved sense of space and depth. It's the first time that the Elise has made my jaw drop since I first got it... these are definitely a keeper. And the noise on my Elise is, at least with these tubes, reduced to a level where it's almost completely inaudible. 
  
 Still awaiting the EL3N adapters so that I can try the six pack - that may knock socks off this combo, but until I find out, I'm a very happy chap.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> Ok guys, I asked you to tell me not to start bidding on it  LOL Price is now 137 USD, when I told you, it was only 17$


 
 I had the 17$ highest bid. Not going to follow them into the hundreds dollar range though..


----------



## Suuup

I _accidentally_ bought a single 6336 tube today. 
  
 So now, the plan is to run a single 6336 and split it up, so there's one triode per channel, meaning I'll only have a single power tube. The 6336 has a whopping 5A current draw, so Elise can only power one. Thankfully though, the 6336 has 30W power dissipation per plate, so there should be more than enough power.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Good day to you all. Today, my first big breakthrough... A week ago or so, I ordered some cheap, supposedly unremarkable Ken Rad 6SN7 tubes. They arrived today and it turns out that with the Chatham 6AS7G they are actually rather special. And improving. They've a lovely airy top end, a silkiness in the mids and plenty of nice, firm bass. They're making me very happy indeed. I think it's the remarkable top end that's contributing to the overall improved sense of space and depth. It's the first time that the Elise has made my jaw drop since I first got it... these are definitely a keeper. And the noise on my Elise is, at least with these tubes, reduced to a level where it's almost completely inaudible.
> 
> Still awaiting the EL3N adapters so that I can try the six pack - that may knock socks off this combo, but until I find out, I'm a very happy chap.


 

 Congrats Rich. Those Kentucky Radios and Chathams will sing the blues, rock, jazz and Beethoven any time any day.
  
 I like to point out that 6SN7 sound is quite distinct from ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N. It's a more precise, focussed sound. At the same time, it's less front row. You're further back in row 7 to 10. Which is not a bad thing. Who wants to watch Elvis Presley sing right up front? Now remember 6SN7 is a much loved tubes all these years. Just look at the the 6SN7 thread started way back in 2005. All those guys love it and gave their fond impressions. These are the drivers Elise was tuned for.
  
 The other tubes I refer to (ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N) have a more forward sound and you're more front row seat with Norah Jones. These would have a BIGGER sound. It will fill the soundstage in your head and a bit beyond. VinylSaviour does speaks highly of 6N7 family of tubes. Enjoythemusic score the EL3N closest to 2A3 sound and we know 2A3 is used in the revered DNA Stratus and higher end Eddie Current tube amps. ECC31 is the close cousin of ECC32 and who doesn't know ECC32... apparently no one here is insane enough to buy one. If you think GEC 6AS7G is expensive, the ECC32 will cost you your kidneys.
  
 Alright so which is better of those 2 category, broadly speaking. No definitive answer. It depends on which Joe Blow you ask. I just think they all present a very unique and lovely sound in Elise and this is where I love this remarkable tube amp that doesn't cost my kidneys. The tube rolling options are quite incredible.
  
 Enjoy !


----------



## oshipao

richdytch said:


> Good day to you all. Today, my first big breakthrough... A week ago or so, I ordered some cheap, supposedly unremarkable Ken Rad 6SN7 tubes. They arrived today and it turns out that with the Chatham 6AS7G they are actually rather special. And improving. They've a lovely airy top end, a silkiness in the mids and plenty of nice, firm bass. They're making me very happy indeed. I think it's the remarkable top end that's contributing to the overall improved sense of space and depth. It's the first time that the Elise has made my jaw drop since I first got it... these are definitely a keeper. And the noise on my Elise is, at least with these tubes, reduced to a level where it's almost completely inaudible.
> 
> Still awaiting the EL3N adapters so that I can try the six pack - that may knock socks off this combo, but until I find out, I'm a very happy chap.




Hi there Rich,

Did you change to Ken Rad 6SN7 from stock? I am thinking of going for a pair myself. Tung Sol 6SN7GT RP are out of the question. Is it the VT-231 type you got?

Very interested as I find my Sylvania 6SN7GTB a touch to forward to my liking (this could be the stock Svetlanas not being up on par, I do not know). I am waiting for mine getting some service at the moment. Cheers!


----------



## Jim Hodgson

richdytch said:


> I ordered some cheap, supposedly unremarkable Ken Rad 6SN7 tubes.


 
  
 I'm surprised that any Ken-Rad 6SN7 would be described that way.  What are yours, exactly?


----------



## nykobing

jim hodgson said:


> I'm surprised that any Ken-Rad 6SN7 would be described that way.  What are yours, exactly?


 
 He posted a picture, I can't see it anymore though. They were the ones that came out after GE had acquired Ken Rad.


----------



## Jim Hodgson

nykobing said:


> He posted a picture, I can't see it anymore though. They were the ones that came out after GE had acquired Ken Rad.


 
  
 Actually,_ most_ Ken-Rad 6SN7s came out after GE acquired Ken-Rad.  So far as I know, the relevant "before and after" in connection with Ken-Rad 6SN7s has to do with plate positioning.  It's said that the earlier staggered plate tubes are superior to the later parallel plate tubes.  No one seems to know why(?)


----------



## DecentLevi

@richdytch would you be able to find another photo of the type of Ken Rad 6SN7's you got? I can't see your photo. Maybe you can copy the photo from your order or something.
 I used to have dual Ken Rad 7193's (which are like 1/2 of a 6SN7 electronically) and liked it, but found it overtly lush in the mids. Would you say yours sounds this way or more natural?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another for LR to distract him while fasting 



[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-hFXOQXn6E [/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

Grandmas' drinkin' hundred proof 




[VIDEO] https://youtube.com/watch?v=11fAOj3EudU [/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

Another from the 70's.....


[VIDEO] https://youtube.com/watch?v=vb3tMfDISGQ [/VIDEO]


----------



## Lord Raven

Awesome JV thank you  16 hours left of fasting.. 8 hours are spent sleeping, so it's not that hard Hehe


----------



## richdytch

@UntilThen @oshipao @Jim Hodgson @nykobing @DecentLevi
  
 Thanks for all your responses on my humble Ken Rads.  A better photo is below, and I don't expect that these are anything rare or unusual. 
  
 Yes, I would describe these as being quite lush in the mids, but there's also a beautiful and refined treble presence, which I think is adding to the overall sense of soundstage and transparency. The transparency I'm getting is far superior to what I got with EL3N/Chatham 6AS7G.
  
 These were unboxed and not labelled as NOS, so definitely used. I'm a firm believer that the largest part of the battle is finding something which matches the response of the rest of one's system. I do nearly all of my listening through loudspeakers, and my PMC 23s are fairly unusual by domestic hifi standards - they're really quite flat and can sound uninspiring when paired with the wrong amplification. I think that the combo of Ken Rad 6SN7 and the Chathams just happens to provide emphasis in all the right areas to complement the PMCs. It's worth noting that while these tubes sound great with my HE400 headphones, there's nothing as remarkable going on as when I listen over the speakers. 
  
 So, I think these just happen to be right for me. I'm still looking forward to trying the EL3N six pack, although for me, E3LN/Chatham 6AS7G was nowhere near as musical, coherent or transparent as this. 
  
 Hope that's answered some questions, and emphasised that I don't think I've discovered anything special, except for in my own system 
  
 Rich.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> Congrats Rich. Those Kentucky Radios and Chathams will sing the blues, rock, jazz and Beethoven any time any day.
> 
> I like to point out that 6SN7 sound is quite distinct from ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N. It's a more precise, focussed sound. At the same time, it's less front row. You're further back in row 7 to 10. Which is not a bad thing. Who wants to watch Elvis Presley sing right up front? Now remember 6SN7 is a much loved tubes all these years. Just look at the the 6SN7 thread started way back in 2005. All those guys love it and gave their fond impressions. These are the drivers Elise was tuned for.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT. 
  
 The Ken Rads do indeed rock with Beethoven and Jazz - I can vouch for that because I listened to hearty amounts of both yesterday 
  
 Interesting what you say about the forwardness of ECC31, et al. I'll probably try some of those at some point in the future. My speakers, not featuring as much (if any) of a midrange dip as most domestic hifi, have no trouble in sounding forward on their own. I've heard it termed as 'the British sound' ... and it stems from the BBC's approach to their monitors, from which I gather the 23s have evolved. Peter Walker, the main man at PMC used to develop monitors for the Beeb. Not sure I'd be getting such remarkable synergy with these Ken Rads and a speaker which had a more naturally euphonic sound signature. 
  
 I was checking out ECC32 tubes last night, and the line between reason and obsession definitely seems to have been crossed there, in terms of the amounts being paid! I'll stick to budget tubes myself for now, and content myself with the happy accidents, and the delight of finding a pair of tubes for £18 which make the world a slightly better place! 
  
 Cheers, 
  
 Rich


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> @UntilThen @oshipao @Jim Hodgson @nykobing @DecentLevi
> 
> Thanks for all your responses on my humble Ken Rads.  A better photo is below, and I don't expect that these are anything rare or unusual.
> 
> ...


 
 Unfortunately still no picture. Just what looks like a grey 'no entry' traffic sign.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> The Ken Rads do indeed rock with Beethoven and Jazz - I can vouch for that because I listened to hearty amounts of both yesterday
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Rich, 
  
 I certainly hope you don't even think of buying those ECC32.   ECC31 are expensive too. If I were to start again, I wouldn't buy them.
  
 If you're happy with 6SN7 and 6AS7 sound, you should stick with them. No adapters required and your Elise will look very neat and smart. The Chatham 6AS7G you have are amongst the better 6AS7G and one of my favorites. Ken Rad 6SN7 are well regarded, especially their 6SN7GT VT231 Smoke or black glass. Very expensive on eBay.
  
 Even amongst 6SN7 and 6AS7 / 6080, you can get quite distinct sound from the various brand and types. You should visit this thread for a better appreciation of the various 6SN7.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 Ken Rad is short for Kentucky Radio, that's what they are.
  
 Keep spinning the Mozarts and Beethovens and Lee Ritenour. Don't forget the sweet voice of Randy Crawford and throw in the occasional blues. 
  
 Cheers
 UT


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Unfortunately still no picture. Just what looks like a grey 'no entry' traffic sign.


 
  
 Odd, I can see the pic in your reply saying that you can't see the pic 
  
 Here's a link to the image on google: https://goo.gl/photos/b5JqnJFg9wxe7RvP8
  
Hope that works for you!
  
Rich


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Odd, I can see the pic in your reply saying that you can't see the pic
> 
> Here's a link to the image on google: https://goo.gl/photos/b5JqnJFg9wxe7RvP8
> 
> ...


 

 I can't see the picture too but now that you include the photo link I can. 
  
 What you have to do is save that photo in your drive as a jpg and then use the 'insert image' function on the editor to include your picture.
  
 That is certainly a Ken Rad


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> I can't see the picture too but now that you include the photo link I can.
> 
> What you have to do is save that photo in your drive as a jpg and then use the 'insert image' function on the editor to include your picture.


 
 Yeah, unfortunately, the upload function on headfi doesn't work in my browser - I tried it...


----------



## UntilThen

These are cheap. I call them Dubstep tubes because they have a pretty solid bass.  It's quite fun. I have a pair.
  
 You can use it a a 6SN7 substitute. 
  

  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-6H8C-6SN7-6SN7GT-Soviet-military-1965-pre-amp-tubes-2-pcs-NOS-/152114093957?hash=item236ab4df85:g:B6MAAOSwYHxWMgoz


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Yeah, unfortunately, the upload function on headfi doesn't work in my browser - I tried it...


 
 Yes I have the photo now from the link. Thanks. 
 I don't have those, but I have some others. I have never been disappointed with K-R tubes.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> I certainly hope you don't even think of buying those ECC32.   ECC31 are expensive too. If I were to start again, I wouldn't buy them.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi UT - it's fairly improbable that I'll be getting any very expensive tubes when a) I'm getting such a nice sound with what I have - as you pointed out, and b) the family do need to eat. They've even been whining on about summer holidays recently. Tsk. 
  
 I've been hanging around the 6SN7 thread, but I'm half trying to ignore it 
  
 As I speak, the Ken Rads are doing an excellent job of unraveling Bitches Brew by Miles Davis - one of the more difficult recordings I have. There are parts of the record where the cacophony of sax, trumpet, electric keyboards, bass and drums with lots of crash cymbal, becomes too much and I often have to turn it down. It's not the music that's bad, just that the production is so sonically cluttered.. .however, the Ken Rads are currently doing a great job of sweetening up that and maintaining each instrument's space, without it all merging together into a big mess. I've not had any equipment that can do that before. The bass is also beautifully defined and doesn't get lost in the mayhem.


----------



## UntilThen

Miles Davies is great but I'm on Katie Melua now and she's great !!! 
  
 Who wouldn't love Ken Rad. Look at these wartime adverts. It says 'Please be patient if you cannot get Ken Rad tubes today'. That should apply to those waiting for their Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

richdytch said:


> Hi UT - it's fairly improbable that I'll be getting any very expensive tubes when a) I'm getting such a nice sound with what I have - as you pointed out, and b) the family do need to eat. They've even been whining on about summer holidays recently. Tsk.
> 
> I've been hanging around the 6SN7 thread, but I'm half trying to ignore it
> 
> As I speak, the Ken Rads are doing an excellent job of unraveling Bitches Brew by Miles Davis - one of the more difficult recordings I have. There are parts of the record where the cacophony of sax, trumpet, electric keyboards, bass and drums with lots of crash cymbal, becomes too much and I often have to turn it down. It's not the music that's bad, just that the production is so sonically cluttered.. .however, the Ken Rads are currently doing a great job of sweetening up that and maintaining each instrument's space, without it all merging together into a big mess. I've not had any equipment that can do that before. The bass is also beautifully defined and doesn't get lost in the mayhem.




Hello Rich...

I have a pair KEN RAD VT231's and just love them. Also have Bitches Brew, and agree, it's a fantastic work of art that you can study, and always hear something you never noticed before. It is its own universe of jazz / fusion explorations.

Glad your enjoying your Elise and glad you recognize the goodness that KEN RAD has to offer.


Cheers!







.


----------



## richdytch

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Rich...
> 
> I have a pair KEN RAD VT231's and just love them. Also have Bitches Brew, and agree, it's a fantastic work of art that you can study, and always hear something you never noticed before. It is its own universe of jazz / fusion explorations.
> 
> ...


 
 I'll drink to that JV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Years ago, I used to think that my pressing of BB was really dreadful. Then I got it digitally and it was only slightly better, so I assumed it was a fairly flawed production. Since then, every notable upgrade I've made to my system has revealed more and more detail, and removed harshness. It's a remarkable record, but not an easy listen in terms of sound. 
  
 So, a mere 25 years after I bought the vinyl, I'm just starting to realise its potential 

 Ken Rad FWT! Can't wait until my 1944 pair turns up.
  
 Rich


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 I am also one of those that almost always use the Elise as a preamp with speakers. Many times I wonder if the results I get are different because i am using speakers instead of headphones. The synergy between different components is very important - still I believe that what sounds good, sounds good with anything you listen through.
  
 I am curious to hear your impressions using the 6x adapter when you get it.
  
 Question: If the Ken-Rads were made by GE, as indicated by the factory code of 188 on the tubes, what is the difference between GE and Ken-Rad tubes from the same year, produced in the same GE factory (i.e. 188-5)?  
  
 I had the same problem as you that I couldn't post pictures on the thread. Finally solved it by uninstalling/deleting the Head -Fi link. After re-installing it (after a couple of tries) everything came back - you will not lose any information.


----------



## mordy

Hi rd,
  
 Went to YouTube and played Witches Brew. It is not the type of music I listen to, but in my system I can clearly follow each individual instrument even though they are sonically cluttered as you say. The Elise with my present tube complement gives a very wide sound stage with great instrument separation.
  
 At the present using a pair of Mazda 6N7G as drivers and 4 EL3N and 2 6BL7 as powers.


----------



## Lord Raven

Focal just launched a game changer headphone system.. 3999$ Introductory price 
  
 http://www.focal.com/headphones/?utm_source=focal&utm_medium=emailing&utm_content=en&utm_campaign=headphones2016#utopia


----------



## JazzVinyl

richdytch said:


> I'll drink to that JV
> 
> 
> Years ago, I used to think that my pressing of BB was really dreadful. Then I got it digitally and it was only slightly better, so I assumed it was a fairly flawed production. Since then, every notable upgrade I've made to my system has revealed more and more detail, and removed harshness. It's a remarkable record, but not an easy listen in terms of sound.
> ...




Hello Rich..,

You will like the 1944 KEN RAD's even better, I guarantee it 

I am not a fan of the EL3N either. Glad someone else can also --finally-- hear it, the way I do 

Bitches Brew...I never had it on Vinyl and some or another digital remaster is the only copy that I have.

It's one of those albums...you have to clear your mind and really allow yourself to be swept away by the concepts presented. Once you do, you come to a place of deep appreciation for the creativity and innovation that it encompasses. Way ahead of it's time. Recorded in a few days in August of 1969, here we are almost 47 years later, just getting hip 

And the musicians! Most of which I followed to the remainder of their careers (and a few are still around):

Miles Davis – trumpet
Wayne Shorter – soprano saxophone
Bennie Maupin – bass clarinet
Joe Zawinul – electric piano – Left
Chick Corea – electric piano – Right
John McLaughlin – electric guitar
Dave Holland – bass
Harvey Brooks – electric bass
Lenny White – drum set – Left
Jack DeJohnette – drum set – Right
Don Alias – congas
Juma Santos (credited as "Jim Riley") – shaker, 

Cheers, and keep Jazzin'....!!





.


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> I am also one of those that almost always use the Elise as a preamp with speakers. Many times I wonder if the results I get are different because i am using speakers instead of headphones. The synergy between different components is very important - still I believe that what sounds good, sounds good with anything you listen through.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Mordy. I have not a clue what the GE factory-made tubes sound like, or what the differences in their construction might be... I'd like to hear some GEs though. 
  
 Agree about your point on synergy - I used to think it was something of a myth, but since I got some better equipment, I've come to realise how big a factor it is... now that I can hear it. When good synergy springs up at unexpected times, it's a wonderful surprise!
  
 Understand that the later Miles Davis stuff is not everyone's cup of tea - nor for many is the early stuff. I love it however... and it never stops revealing things I'd never heard before - sonically and musically. I was on the fence with Davis for many years, but have started to enjoy him a lot more in the last couple of years. 
  
 Rich


----------



## richdytch

lord raven said:


> Focal just launched a game changer headphone system.. 3999$ Introductory price
> 
> http://www.focal.com/headphones/?utm_source=focal&utm_medium=emailing&utm_content=en&utm_campaign=headphones2016#utopia


 
  
 Hi LR... I'm doubting I'll ever afford those, but would love to hear them one day 


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello Rich..,
> 
> You will like the 1944 KEN RAD's even better, I guarantee it
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi JV.

 Quite an amazing array of talent on that record. I find the thing with later Miles Davis is not so much his composition or musicianship - but just the fact that he acted as a catalyst for these huge musical and sonic experiments. Many of those musicians would never have done anything like that if it wasn't for Miles. He was such a progressive character. 
  
 I'm still looking forward to trying the 4 x EL3N as power, 2 as driver. Right now though, the Chatham/KR combi gives me all I need and a bit more.  The Ken Rads are my favourite driver (so far, pending the arrival of the 1944 version) over speakers, but over headphones, I was probably equally happy with the EL3N and the stock tubes... they just had different characters. 
  
 But I remember when I first got the Elise. wondering how it could POSSIBLY improve with tube upgrades. How wrong I was. 
  
 Rich.


----------



## HOWIE13

So my Elise arrived today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Took 4 and a half weeks to dispatch and three working days to deliver. That was quicker than I had expected.
 Here's the weird bit though. Just at the same time as the UPS delivery guy rang the front door bell, I was listening to Radio Classic FM  and they were playing Beethoven's 'Fur Elise' .
 I thought that was pretty spooky!


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> So my Elise arrived today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Howie, that is certainly one amazing coincidence. But it would be more weird if life DIDN'T throw things like that at us 
  
 Congrats on your Elise... welcome to Eliseland. The place where you can't stop listening to music...


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Hi Howie, that is certainly one amazing coincidence. But it would be more weird if life DIDN'T throw things like that at us
> 
> Congrats on your Elise... welcome to Eliseland. The place where you can't stop listening to music...


 
 Thanks richdytch.
 Here's a version of Fur Elise I've never heard- Elise is already broadening my horizons
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCfGXwx1mJs


----------



## Jim Hodgson

mordy said:


> Question: If the Ken-Rads were made by GE, as indicated by the factory code of 188 on the tubes, what is the difference between GE and Ken-Rad tubes from the same year, produced in the same GE factory (i.e. 188-5)?


 
  
 Is there some reason to think that the Owensboro plant under GE ownership (as indicated by the "188-5") was producing two distinct 6SN7GTs in 1950 (as indicated by the "0-35") -- that is, a "GE" version and a "Ken-Rad" version?  I think that this is highly unlikely.
  
 Whatever the case, those look like totally excellent Ken-Rad 6SN7GTs: staggered plates (I think? A bit hard to tell from that photo) and copper grid posts.  Are these really considered "humble" 6SN7s around here?  Wow.


----------



## Oskari

jim hodgson said:


> Is there some reason to think that the Owensboro plant under GE ownership (as indicated by the "188-5") was producing two distinct 6SN7GTs in 1950 (as indicated by the "0-35") -- that is, a "GE" version and a "Ken-Rad" version?  I think that this is highly unlikely.




I have no facts but I agree: quite unlikely.

P.S. Go Iceland!


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> I have no facts but I agree: quite unlikely.
> 
> P.S. Go Iceland!


 
 I think I read that when GE took over K-R they continued to use the K-R name on the tubes because of K-R's high reputation. This would suggest they were all essentially the same GE tubes.
 Having said that, whatever the marking, the 'K-R' and GE tubes I've used from this period have all sounded pretty good.


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> I think I read that when GE took over K-R they continued to use the K-R name on the tubes because of K-R's high reputation. This would suggest they were all essentially the same GE tubes.
> Having said that, whatever the marking, the 'K-R' and GE tubes I've used from this period have all sounded pretty good.


 
  
 I read another discussion on this where someone made the excellent point that when GE acquired the factory, the people there and their excellent craftsmanship would have remained, at least for while. I guess it takes time for cheaper materials, less skilled workers and corner-cutting manufacturing processes to infiltrate and have an effect in terms of quality. Quite how different materials/manufacture makes a difference to SQ is a big mystery to me though.


----------



## connieflyer

I would like to take a moment of your time and thank those that sent condolences to me on my wife's passing, it was very considerate of you and I needed it as well, I wanted to post a little video that may help others facing the same situation, so thank you all.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> The Ken Rads are my favourite driver (so far, pending the arrival of the 1944 version) over speakers, *but over headphones, I was probably equally happy with the EL3N and the stock tubes... they just had different characters. *


 
 Thanks Rich for an unbiased EL3N opinion unlike some who says there's no treble or no air.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> So my Elise arrived today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats Howie. It's just as well it's Fur Elise and not the "dit-dit-dit-dah" of Beethoven's 5th.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I have no facts but I agree: quite unlikely.
> 
> P.S. *Go Iceland!*


 
 What happened to Finland? Or Australia? Did you change country?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Will Benard....Leo's Cat...off the fun album "Party Hats":




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYIMs5u5Wxg[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I would like to take a moment of your time and thank those that sent condolences to me on my wife's passing, it was very considerate of you and I needed it as well, I wanted to post a little video that may help others facing the same situation, so thank you all.


 
 Hey CF, really good to see your post. My thoughts were with you all this while. Take care champ and see you on board soon.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok there's a downside to owning Elise. I just came back from a general checkup report. Everything's good but Vitamin D is down. I've been listing to music with Elise too much and not getting enough sun !!!
  
 So a change of lifestyle as I take Elise and Fido for daily walks now.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sweet In The Morning..

Bobby McFerrin, from his 'Medicine Music' CD:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rhba6B0WSw[/VIDEO]


----------



## nykobing

untilthen said:


> Thanks Rich for an unbiased EL3N opinion unlike some who says there's no treble or no air.


 
 Really strange way to phrase this. People that didn't care for it much were biased?


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> Really strange way to phrase this. People that didn't care for it much were biased?


 

 Saying it has no air is bias. Perhaps you choose your words wrongly.


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps if you need to hear more "air" you should try this.......our property was close to here


----------



## nykobing

untilthen said:


> Saying it has no air is bias. Perhaps you choose your words wrongly.


 
 I said it didn't have the air the 6sn7 have for me. I don't know how that is prejudiced in any way. Maybe we have different definitions of it. I don't care what people like, it is their choice.  I also was just saying I don't really hear much separation between instruments like I do with the 6n7 and other tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

I have a lot of tubes in my inventory. There's no reason for me to love just one particular tube. They all present a unique sound. I dos love all my tubes. Rich puts it right when he says they're different char.
  
 However I consider it bias or total exaggerations when opinions such as 'no treble', 'no air' are being thrown at EL3N. I don't own shares in this tube. There's no reason for me to promote or defend it but I see very strange impressions being floated on this thread about it.


----------



## nykobing

I have not seen one person say there was no air, just that another tube had more.


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I have a lot of tubes in my inventory. There's no reason for me to love just one particular tube. They all present a unique sound. I dos love all my tubes. Rich puts it right when he says they're different char.
> 
> However I consider it bias or total exaggerations when opinions such as 'no treble', 'no air' are being thrown at EL3N. I don't own shares in this tube. There's no reason for me to promote or defend it but I see very strange impressions being floated on this thread about it.




LOL

I consider it a *total exaggeration* when people heap great sonic praise on the EL3N.

My amp *really HATES* that tube.

Perhaps the amps that like EL3N have a different value resistor somewhere? I have seen photos of the underbelly of various Elise's and the layout is definitely under constant refinement. 

Perhaps the part values have differed as well.

Don't go around thinking your experience/opinion speaks for everyone.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL
> 
> I consider it a *total exaggeration* when people heap great sonic praise on the EL3N.
> 
> ...


 

 It does not surprise me *your amp really HATES EL3N*. You fried your Elise with your external power supplies experimentation.
  
 FYI, it's not my experience/opinion. There are far more in this thread that likes EL3N than the handful of you.
  
@hypnos1 
@pctazhp 
@CITIZENLIN 
@mordy 
@Fervent 
@B-60 
@richdytch
@aqsw
@Lord Raven
@WB2016
@hpamdr
@connieflyer
  
 These are those on top of my head that speaks well of EL3N.
  
 Don't go around thinking your experience/opinion of external power supplies and 6x6BL7 is the best, speaks for everyone. Yeah that applies to you.
  
 Or they will toast their Elise one day just like you did.


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL
> 
> I consider it a *total exaggeration* when people heap great sonic praise on the EL3N.
> 
> ...




Very well could be a difference in the amps. My Elise sounds very good ith EL3Ns. It hates Mazdas and 5998s. Yours is the opposite. Doesn't really make sense to me. It sure can make rolling a pain, as you never know what to expect.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Very well could be a difference in the amps. My Elise sounds very good ith EL3Ns. It hates Mazdas and 5998s. Yours is the opposite. Doesn't really make sense to me. It sure can make rolling a pain, as you never know what to expect.


 

 At least people like you who likes the sound of EL3N speaks out or they think it's my tube and my opinion only.
  
 For that matter, I don't believe there's so many variations of Elise. The FA Team are careful with what they do and takes pride in their creation. That's pure speculation.


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, those complaining about EL3N non-airy, Feliks Audio came up with a good solution for them, add this stand in front of your Elise for more air with EL3N in place 
  
 I am so getting it hehe...


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Guys, those complaining about EL3N non-airy, Feliks Audio came up with a good solution for them, add this stand in front of your Elise for more air with EL3N in place
> 
> I am so getting it hehe...


 
 When you get your T1, there'll be enough air to move Mt Everest with EL3N + 5998 in Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> When you get your T1, there'll be enough air to move Mt Everest with EL3N + 5998 in Elise.


 
  
 I want bottled air for Australia  I am going to surprize the forum, working on a new tube acquisition, if it works out, I will report back


----------



## UntilThen

LR are you getting GEC 6AS7G? You're rich. You have several oil wells. Get me a pair will you.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> LR are you getting GEC 6AS7G? You're rich. You have several oil wells. Get me a pair will you.


 
  
 LOL this is the exact reason why it is so hard for me to buy things online, people take me as a prince of arabia with a lot of money


----------



## lukeap69

lord raven said:


> LOL this is the exact reason why it is so hard for me to buy things online, people take me as a prince of arabia with a lot of money




Aren't you? 

If you managed to find a box of GEC 6AS7, please remember that I am just across the border.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> What happened to Finland? Or Australia? Did you change country? :etysmile:




Support for the Icelandic underdog. 1–1 against Portugal. :normal_smile :


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Support for the Icelandic underdog. 1–1 against Portugal.


 

 Soccer yes my favorite. Ronaldo says Iceland park the bus in front of the goal.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Aren't you?
> 
> If you managed to find a box of GEC 6AS7, please remember that I am just across the border.


 

 He's got a few camels too. Fast delivery.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> He's got a few camels too. Fast delivery.




Even better.


----------



## DecentLevi

So Howie, were you able to get a good taste of the Elise, to tell us how it suits you? And which tubes do you like best so far?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> So Howie, were you able to get a good taste of the Elise, to tell us how it suits you? And which tubes do you like best so far?


 
 I'm still with the stock tubes-and enjoying every note. Amazing sweetness and clarity. I never realised the rest of my system, including cans, could sound so good. I have to stop myself listening for too long as I feel I'm over indulging in luxury. 
 I even emailed Lukasz late last night to tell him.
 I'm waiting for China Post to deliver adapters, meantime enjoying the discussion about the various tubes on this thread in a way I couldn't engage in before Elise was actually in my hands. This morning, for the first time, I heard a recorded flute the way it actually sounds in reality. 
 Very happy so far.


----------



## DecentLevi

Congrats Howie! Or should I say wow, what a 180' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







... compared to your initial reaction *here* about the Elise LOL!!! So do you take back some of those things? No regrets if you don't, just curious! And it will only get better! If you care for her, she may be the last amp you'll ever need!
  
 Oh and some of the other former Ember --> Elise converts may also take a fancy if you have any thoughts on the differences too


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I'm still with the stock tubes-and enjoying every note. Amazing sweetness and clarity. I never realised the rest of my system, including cans, could sound so good. I have to stop myself listening for too long as I feel I'm over indulging in luxury.
> I even emailed Lukasz late last night to tell him.
> I'm waiting for China Post to deliver adapters, meantime enjoying the discussion about the various tubes on this thread in a way I couldn't engage in before Elise was actually in my hands. This morning, for the first time, I heard a recorded flute the way it actually sounds in reality.
> Very happy so far.


 

 Beautiful impressions straight from the heart. And from you who already owns the Expressivo. Just enjoy the stock tubes and music. Don't be in a hurry to burn in the amp. It's will come about gradually. And don't be in a hurry to swap tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL
> 
> I consider it a *total exaggeration* when people heap great sonic praise on the EL3N.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I seriously doubt FA has changed any resistors. But if that is the explanation, then you must have changed the same resistor in your Elise because you initially praised the EL3N with uncontrolled enthusiasm http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/5175. As far as I know, you never have explained why you did such a 180. To my ears and in my system EL3N is at the top of the heap.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Congrats Howie! Or should I say wow, what a 180'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I take that back-sometimes it's bliss to be proved wrong.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Beautiful impressions straight from the heart. And from you who already owns the Expressivo. Just enjoy the stock tubes and music. Don't be in a hurry to burn in the amp. It's will come about gradually. And don't be in a hurry to swap tubes.


 
 That's exactly what I thought. I'll burn in with the stock tubes first. 
 After that I may keep the stock powers in initially, as I have quite a lot of 6SN7's I want to try, but then.............


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> That's exactly what I thought. I'll burn in with the stock tubes first.
> After that I may keep the stock powers in initially, as I have quite a lot of 6SN7's I want to try, but then.............


 

 Stock tubes in this case is actually pretty good. Settle in a few weeks with it and you'll really get to know Elise sound signature well. By that time, you'd have burn up 150hours easily.
  
 I just have an outsider ask me in PM the other day about stock tubes. Whether he needs to swap tubes going from HE560 to T1. I say not at all. Same set of stock tubes will work very well with both headphones. If they were the only tubes I ever own I'd still be happy with Elise. However once you step into tube amp, you will do some rolling but I doubt you need to do much.
  
 I'd like to hear some impressions of Elise compare to Expressivo when you're ready. Take your time.


----------



## Wreckgar7

Hi guys, i`ve been following this thread while waiting for my Elise, great time reading your impressions  I also got my beyerdynamic T1 G1 a couple of days ago, and i must say, with my chord mojo / Little dot mk iv SE, i was a bit disapointed.... bright and thin probably would be the words to describe it 
  
 Buuuut then, my Elise #61 arrived about 3 hours ago... i dont know, lost for words? SOO incrediably happy, thin and bright? i dont think so..... tear shedding (no joke) everything just sounds so RIGHT. This with stock tubes.
 First day of vacation, im bringing with me Tung sol 6080, Sylvania 6sn7GTA and EL3N to my cabbin, just gonna enjoy music with an open fire and some whiskey for a few days now.
  
 Just wanted to drop in before and thank everyone, especially @hypnos1 and Feliks Audio for making this possible!


----------



## UntilThen

wreckgar7 said:


> Hi guys, i`ve been following this thread while waiting for my Elise, great time reading your impressions  I also got my beyerdynamic T1 G1 a couple of days ago, and i must say, with my chord mojo / Little dot mk iv SE, i was a bit disapointed.... bright and thin probably would be the words to describe it
> 
> Buuuut then, my Elise #61 arrived about 3 hours ago... i dont know, lost for words? SOO incrediably happy, thin and bright? i dont think so..... tear shedding (no joke) everything just sounds so RIGHT. This with stock tubes.
> First day of vacation, im bringing with me Tung sol 6080, Sylvania 6sn7GTA and EL3N to my cabbin, just gonna enjoy music with an open fire and some whiskey for a few days now.
> ...


 

 Alright I want to know where the cabin is because I'm coming too. Tears of joy for you too that 1) you're loving Elise sound and 2) it makes a big difference to your T1. This is the magic synergy of Elise + T1. Now you'll get LR really excited.
  
 I agree about thanking @hypnos1.... and Feliks Audio obviously. Incredible amp for the price.


----------



## HOWIE13

wreckgar7 said:


> Hi guys, i`ve been following this thread while waiting for my Elise, great time reading your impressions  I also got my beyerdynamic T1 G1 a couple of days ago, and i must say, with my chord mojo / Little dot mk iv SE, i was a bit disapointed.... bright and thin probably would be the words to describe it
> 
> Buuuut then, my Elise #61 arrived about 3 hours ago... i dont know, lost for words? SOO incrediably happy, thin and bright? i dont think so..... tear shedding (no joke) everything just sounds so RIGHT. This with stock tubes.
> First day of vacation, im bringing with me Tung sol 6080, Sylvania 6sn7GTA and EL3N to my cabbin, just gonna enjoy music with an open fire and some whiskey for a few days now.
> ...


 
 I wanna join you too.


----------



## Wreckgar7

howie13 said:


> I wanna join you too.


 

 Haha, everyone is welcome, just a short trip into the woods of northern Sweden 
  
 Ever since i started my journey into music and audio, i always knew something was missing, but now? Im there, all songs i play just strikes me right in the heart. So happy


----------



## UntilThen

wreckgar7 said:


> Haha, everyone is welcome, just a short trip into the woods of northern Sweden
> 
> Ever since i started my journey into music and audio, i always knew something was missing, but now? Im there, all songs i play just strikes me right in the heart. So happy


 

 Your modded HD650 will sound very good with Elise too. 3 hours is still too soon. I remember after 8 hours, the sound smooth out and Elise starts to soar like a Phoenix. 
  
 I'm warning you. You'll be going through your entire music collection and will probably remain in the cabin for much longer. Make sure there's enough food and whiskey.


----------



## Wreckgar7

untilthen said:


> Your modded HD650 will sound very good with Elise too. 3 hours is still too soon. I remember after 8 hours, the sound smooth out and Elise starts to soar like a Phoenix.
> 
> I'm warning you. You'll be going through your entire music collection and will probably remain in the cabin for much longer. Make sure there's enough food and whiskey.


 

 I will be bringing those too  Ha yeah im probably just a bit over the moon right now, and i know for sure ill be tube rolling and reaching another level of extacy  But my worries about the Elise just being a hype is definitely gone


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Stock tubes in this case is actually pretty good. Settle in a few weeks with it and you'll really get to know Elise sound signature well. By that time, you'd have burn up 150hours easily.
> 
> I just have an outsider ask me in PM the other day about stock tubes. Whether he needs to swap tubes going from HE560 to T1. I say not at all. Same set of stock tubes will work very well with both headphones. If they were the only tubes I ever own I'd still be happy with Elise. However once you step into tube amp, you will do some rolling but I doubt you need to do much.
> 
> I'd like to hear some impressions of Elise compare to Expressivo when you're ready. Take your time.


 
 Yes Expressivo is a really nice amplifier- a very good looker, IMHO. It has good control and clarity, and can have a huge sound-stage, depending on the driver tubes, which can be any of the many 6DJ8 type tubes available, mostly at very reasonable prices too. 
  
 So far, I have only found the recommended tube types (6N6P, and their immediate equivalents 6N6P-i and 6N6P-ir) suitable as power tubes-but I'll keep trying with some of the tubes I've ordered for Elise. There will be a likely limit of 0.9A per channel though, (will check this with Lukasz). Expressivo is half the price of Elise and would be an excellent amp for anybody on a tighter budget to consider.


----------



## UntilThen

wreckgar7 said:


> I will be bringing those too  Ha yeah im probably just a bit over the moon right now, and i know for sure ill be tube rolling and reaching another level of extacy  *But my worries about the Elise just being a hype is definitely gone *


 
 I love reading this statement and I've heard it a few times this week alone. I'm late to the party. My serial number is #22.
  
 21 others before me have been raving about it non stop. Then it came to my turn... 
  
 I usually don't want to get new owners too excited with anything other than stock tubes for a start. Let them enjoy it for a while.
  
 BUT having gone through a lot of tubes, I've to say that there are tubes that will take Elise even further. If 6SN7 and 6080n gets you excited, there's more to come. Of course there will be some who says all this is hype, just as they have been saying about our impressions of Elise...


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> It does not surprise me *your amp really HATES EL3N*. You fried your Elise with your external power supplies experimentation.




LOL

Do you feel better now, UT?

You have a strict agenda, let no one, let no facts, get in the way 

Fanboy-ism, on display.

Readers beware. Wild-Eyed Fanboy, on board.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Very well could be a difference in the amps. My Elise sounds very good ith EL3Ns. It hates Mazdas and 5998s. Yours is the opposite. Doesn't really make sense to me. It sure can make rolling a pain, as you never know what to expect.




Yes, and we have see other examples of this amp not preforming the same across tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL
> 
> Do you feel better now, UT?
> 
> ...


 

 If you accuse me of Fanboyism, you accuse us all of that. Go to any thread where people love their product and they will be raving the same. Go to the DNA Stratus thread and have a look. If I am being accused of being a fan boy so be it.
  
 BUT let me remind you this is what you said and what @pctazhp rightly pointed out.
  
 *EL3N* impressions continued....

*ORGANIC* and *VINYL-ISH*

 Are both good words to describe the sound. As are *LUSH* and *FULL*.

 I will definitely *DEFINITELY* say as well that I am hearing things I never heard before on recordings that I
 am very familiar with. A David Sanborn/Bob James LP, "Double Vision" side 1 last song: "Moon Tune" there were a myriad of sonic treats never heard before.

 There is also something about the presentation, it's more real, more "exactly reproduced" as though the instruments were in the room and your standing nearby, your own personal show.

 Hard to describe, but kind of like the timbre is *SO REAL* that it's no longer an *ILLUSION* of real, but *REAL*.

 They continue to make the *SENN's* the best cans I have ever heard 

 Could be the *EL3N/5998 combo*, could be that different powers would make these work better with the DT-990's.
 I am so enamoured with them paired with 5998's that I probably won't find out today, how they do with different powers 

 Also...seems to me that it's like the "*Loudness*" switch is on - that classic SS amps used to have. You have this full wide bottom brought out that is addictive and makes you *NEVER* not want to turn it off... makes everything way more lush/organic/fun.

 Also tried a couple of Vinyl records as source...HECK YEAH!!! This also makes the vinyl sound like you have your *"loudness" switch on"*...I LOVE it!!! Digital more vinyl, and vinyl presented with the *Loudness Switch ON*, this was missing, previously....

*Virtual Reality for the Music LOVER!!!*

 Thank you *Feliks/Elise*! Thank You *H1*, Thank You *UT*!!!

 This is truly a *JOY*....!!!!

 If anyone had a turntable and records they have not heard for years, this IS the ticket to bring it into the *Joyous Light Of Day*!!






  
  
 Now who is being a Fanboy and who did a 180 degrees turn without any good explanations. Then you thank Feliks Audio, H1 and me. No doubt you're cursing us now. Go figure !


----------



## UntilThen

AND this is the post I like best from you.  post #5360
  
 The EL3N reminds me of a superb (expensive) phono cartridge....we say expensive/superb phono cartridges sound like "nothing".

 Because it gets out of the way and lets the music be what it's supposed to be....lets the music sound like what it is supposed to sound like.

 That's exactly what happens with the EL3N, it disappears completely and lets the music sound 100% natural, as though it's being preformed live for your enjoyment.

 They are astonishing and I am soooooooooo thankful for these!!! We must hang around some genius peeps to have come up with these WONDERS!!!!!

 So happy....thank you UT and H1 and Mrs Xu Ling 

 If the EL3N were a phono Cartridge, it would cost 5000 bucks....easy!!

 Cheers to all......





  
  
 Please show some consistency.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, and we have see other examples of this amp not preforming the same across tubes.


 
 Please name a single example to support your statement. We have heard some Elise owners report different preferences for any given tube in their particular system including, not just their Elise, but their source, headphone and individual preferences and expectations. I have not seen it established that two different Elises  actually "performed" different with any given tube, with all other things being equal.
  
 Still waiting for you to tell us what changes you made to your Elise that caused such an unprecedented and dramatic change of view with regard to the EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

For someone to say that EL3N sounds like a $5000 phono cartridge and then now say his amp really HATE EL3N. That really makes me laugh so hard. 
  
 And to think he calls us genius peeps LOL .... Please keep the compliments.


----------



## Suuup

Eh, we're up to 4 people on this thread that doesn't like the EL3N now. Saying that someone is biased just because they don't like the EL3N isn't really fair. 
  
 I see a lot of new people show up in this thread who all buy the EL3N because a lot of people are raving about it, but I don't think they should. At best, it's a controversial tube compared to other tubes we've used in this thread. Again, I'll look to the 6N7G where everyone who has tried it has loved it (except for the few where it straight up doesn't work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). ECC31 also received universal praise. So did C3g. 
  
 If I were a newcomer to this thread, I'd order some of those tubes instead of the EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Eh, we're up to 4 people on this thread that doesn't like the EL3N now. Saying that someone is biased just because they don't like the EL3N isn't really fair.
> 
> I see a lot of new people show up in this thread who all buy the EL3N because a lot of people are raving about it, but I don't think they should. At best, it's a controversial tube compared to other tubes we've used in this thread. Again, I'll look to the 6N7G where everyone who has tried it has loved it (except for the few where it straight up doesn't work
> 
> ...


 

 It's fine if you guys say you don't like it from the start but explain to me JV's change of mind from the 2 posts and many other earlier posts where he praise heaps on EL3N.
  
 BTW saying that EL3N has less air than 6SN7 is very inaccurate. Anyone who has heard those tubes will agree that EL3N has more air, texture, density. Perhaps if there's a better attribute thrown in.
 Whatever it is it's your prerogative not to like it. No one is forcing you. It's a cheap and good tube which a lot of us see in that.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's fine if you guys say you don't like it from the start but explain to me JV's change of mind from the 2 posts and many other earlier posts where he praise heaps on EL3N.
> 
> BTW saying that EL3N has less air than 6SN7 is very inaccurate. Anyone who has heard those tubes will agree that EL3N has more air, texture, density. Perhaps if there's a better attribute thrown in.
> Whatever it is it's your prerogative not to like it. No one is forcing you. It's a cheap and good tube which a lot of us see in that.


 
 I don't agree that it has more air than 6SN7. To me it sounded narrow and muddied.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I don't agree that it has more air than 6SN7. To me it sounded narrow and muddied.


 

 To me that sounds like the tube has not even been burn in at all. Ask anyone here who likes EL3N and see if that's their impressions. Narrow and muddled haha. 
  
 I've heard all ECC31, various 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N isn't that much different. What puzzles me if why you guys described it so differently.


----------



## Suuup

This shouldn't be a war to me though. I mean, if other people like the tube, that's their preference, and I'm okay with that. Also, you're of course allowed to talk about it all you want. Only problem is new people think it's the only good choice for the Elise, but this isn't the case. Other tubes have 100% of users who like them, and EL3N is more about 80% of users like it. I'd pick 100% over 80%.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> This shouldn't be a war to me though. I mean, if other people like the tube, that's their preference, and I'm okay with that. Also, you're of course allowed to talk about it all you want. Only problem is new people think it's the only good choice for the Elise, but this isn't the case. Other tubes have 100% of users who like them, and EL3N is more about 80% of users like it. I'd pick 100% over 80%.


 

 It's never been a war but you should see who started it first. Besides you've probably not seen my posts or choose to ignore. I did not only recommend EL3N. I have great praise for the the other tubes too. Even now I listen and rotate through my tubes. 
  
 What I see strange is you guys have great objection to EL3N but yet heartily embrace external power supplies which I think is a greater danger for new people who are not electrically inclined.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> It's never been a war but you should see who started it first. Besides you've probably not seen my posts or choose to ignore. I did not only recommend EL3N. I have great praise for the the other tubes too. Even now I listen and rotate through my tubes.
> 
> What I see strange is you guys have great objection to EL3N but yet heartily embrace external power supplies which I think is a greater danger for new people who are not electrically inclined.


 
 Where is the danger in external power supplies?


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> Where is the danger in external power supplies?


 

 Maybe not to you but for those who haven't got a clue it is. Besides do you really think Elise need to be adapted that way to sound good? Is she not good enough for you without external power supplies.
  
 There are 2 extremes here. One group wants only strictly 6SN7 and 6AS7. The other group says pile on as many tubes as you can and use external power supplies. Perhaps you guys think Elise is cheap and therefore can be thrash this way. However a lot of owner love their Elise and I'm sure they see no sense in this.
  
 You won't see anyone with a DNA Stratus or EC Zana Deux S doing that. It's sacrilege.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Maybe not to you but for those who haven't got a clue it is. Besides do you really think Elise need to be adapted that way to sound good? Is she not good enough for you without external power supplies.
> 
> There are 2 extremes here. One group wants only strictly 6SN7 and 6AS7. The other group says pile on as many tubes as you can and use external power supplies. Perhaps you guys think Elise is cheap and therefore can be thrash this way. However a lot of owner love their Elise and I'm sure they see no sense in this.
> 
> You won't see anyone with a DNA Stratus or EC Zana Deux S doing that. It's sacrilege.


 
 They're not as well suited for tube rolling as the Elise is. 
  
 No, I don't believe external heating is in any way dangerous, not even when you don't know what you're doing.


----------



## Suuup

6 and 12 volt will do no one any harm.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> They're not as well suited for tube rolling as the Elise is.
> 
> No, I don't believe external heating is in any way dangerous, not even when you don't know what you're doing.


 

 Well keep insisting that. A lot of new Elise owners here are elderly and I for one won't be guaranteeing that to them. All I see is some of you have a real interest in DIY. Doesn't matter if it's Frankenstein. The more weird the better. That is the reason @hypnos1 ask you guys to start a new thread but you refuse to bulge and he even got insulted in the process. Is it any wonder he's not coming on anymore.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Well keep insisting that. A lot of new Elise owners here are elderly and I for one won't be guaranteeing that to them. All I see is some of you have a real interest in DIY. Doesn't matter if it's Frankenstein. The more weird the better. That is the reason @hypnos1 ask you guys to start a new thread but you refuse to bulge and he even got insulted in the process. Is it any wonder he's not coming on anymore.


 
 I sure hope I didn't insult @hypnos1 -- and if I did, I certainly didn't intend to. I very much like hypnos. I don't understand why we'd ban external heating though. 
  
 I'll guarantee you, no matter how old or how bad a heart you have, 6 or 12 volt will not harm you (DC).


----------



## HOWIE13

I can't contribute to the discussion as I'm waiting for my adapters, but would appreciate it if someone could tell me whether you are discussing about EL3N and 6SN7 tubes as Drivers or Powers or both?
 Also, with my LD 2/2 I always felt about 80% of any change of Sound Signature came from rolling the drivers, only a little from rolling the Powers.
 Do you find Elise is different in this respect- more 50/50, perhaps?
 Thanks.


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> I can't contribute to the discussion as I'm waiting for my adapters, but would appreciate it if someone could tell me whether you are discussing about EL3N and 6SN7 tubes as Drivers or Powers or both?
> Also, with my LD 2/2 I always felt about 80% of any change of Sound Signature came from rolling the drivers, only a little from rolling the Powers.
> Do you find Elise is different in this respect- more 50/50, perhaps?
> Thanks.


 
 I'm talking about EL3N as drivers. 
  
 Power tubes have a surprisingly significant change on the Elise actually. I am myself mostly rolling power tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> I'm talking about EL3N as drivers.
> 
> Power tubes have a surprisingly significant change on the Elise actually. I am myself mostly rolling power tubes.


 
 Thanks for that insight.
 Do you think then, as I'm just entering the Elise Tube rolling experience, after burn-in, I should concentrate on experimenting with Drivers or Powers first?
 I thought of initially leaving the stock power tubes in and trying different drivers first. Does that seem reasonable?


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> Thanks for that insight.
> Do you think then, as I'm just entering the Elise Tube rolling experience, after burn-in, I should concentrate on experimenting with Drivers or Powers first?
> I thought of initially leaving the stock power tubes in and trying different drivers first. Does that seem reasonable?


 
 I think the stock power tubes of the Elise are weaker than the stock driver tubes. 
  
 That said, I very much think it depends on what sound signature you want. If you can tell me what sound you want, I can tell what direction to head in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Personally, I'm a sucker for a lot of space and good imaging / instrument separation. Sometimes though, I'm just in the mood for an easy laid back listening. It's possible to get both sounds by rolling in other tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> I think the stock power tubes of the Elise are weaker than the stock driver tubes.
> 
> That said, I very much think it depends on what sound signature you want. If you can tell me what sound you want, I can tell what direction to head in
> 
> ...


 
 Great. Thanks.
 Well I like the sound to be -clean, clear, dynamic with good imaging and instrument separation. No mid-bass flab! All that usually means a generous sound-stage to provide the required space.
 I like the treble to be sweet and not excessively or unrealistically extended.
 Mostly listen to Classical so need to be able to follow those intricate musical lines played by the different instruments.
 My cans at present are: HD600/650, AKG 702/712, HP100, DT990. The AKG 702 get me most easily to the sound I like with my present kit (Garage1217).
 No T1 or HD800's yet- will need to save up for them!


----------



## Lord Raven

wreckgar7 said:


> Hi guys, i`ve been following this thread while waiting for my Elise, great time reading your impressions  I also got my beyerdynamic T1 G1 a couple of days ago, and i must say, with my chord mojo / Little dot mk iv SE, i was a bit disapointed.... bright and thin probably would be the words to describe it
> 
> Buuuut then, my Elise #61 arrived about 3 hours ago... i dont know, lost for words? SOO incrediably happy, thin and bright? i dont think so..... tear shedding (no joke) everything just sounds so RIGHT. This with stock tubes.
> First day of vacation, im bringing with me Tung sol 6080, Sylvania 6sn7GTA and EL3N to my cabbin, just gonna enjoy music with an open fire and some whiskey for a few days now.
> ...


 
  
 Please invite me, I will bring my camels to the party


----------



## Lord Raven

EL3N and FDD20 for me please  And rest for the camels hehe.. @UntilThen and @pctazhp you guys are right, how come such a 180 change is someone's reviews about EL3N? Also, I would like @JazzVinyl to disclose if his Elise is really toasted, I think I heard it on the forum, if this really happened then external PSU's are a real threat to Elise, 6 or 12 volt, if they cannot hurt you, a wrong connection can hurt Elise's internals. I have 12V external power for FDD20, took me ages to fix issues with it, bought 3 different PSU's, DC battery, and finally solved the matter, it requires a lot of troubleshooting to make external PSUs work, without zero knowledge and interest in DIY, you cannot possibly do it. On the other hand, I used stock tubes for maybe the longest time from anyone on this thread, they were that good on my Elise #13.
  
 Some tubes might not sound good to particular people due to different sound preferences, but what is that change of opinion all about?


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> Great. Thanks.
> Well I like the sound to be -clean, clear, dynamic with good imaging and instrument separation. No mid-bass flab! All that usually means a generous sound-stage to provide the required space.
> I like the treble to be sweet and not excessively or unrealistically extended.
> Mostly listen to Classical so need to be able to follow those intricate musical lines played by the different instruments.
> ...


 
 If you can tolerate externally heating your tubes, FDD20 would give you pretty much exactly what you want. You say you don't like treble extension though, but the FDD20 definitely has great treble extension. That might be the only thing. I'm guessing though, that you don't like overly boosted treble, since it can introduce a certain harshness? Treble extension isn't the same as having a lot of treble. 
  
 Anyway, if you don't want to go the external heating route (which I can definitely understand), a pair of 6N7G is VERY close to FDD20 -- if not even the same. I think the FDD20 mids are a bit better than the 6N7G, but this could honestly just be psychological. 
  
 Other than that, I actually think the stock 6SN7 comes pretty close to what you want. 6N7G has better stage / imaging while 6SN7 has better slam / impact.
 A pair of 6N7G can be had for ~40$
 A pair of FDD20 can be had for ~50$
 Both requires an adapter. The 6N7G adapter can also be used for the lovely ECC31. 
  
 FDD20 and 6N7G are both driver tubes. I'd run them with a pair of 6AS7.
  
  
 Another possibility is getting a pair of 6080 and ECC31. I rolled in this combo a couple of days ago, and it's surprisingly good! 6080 can be had for pretty cheap, ECC31 is a bit expensive though. A pair can be found for ~100$ give or take, with a bit of patience. ECC31 is very versatile though. It is very smooth sounding and makes for an easy listen, while the 6080 is hyper detailed and clean sounding. It doesn't have much bottom end though (the ECC31 provies that in this combo). Not quite as spacious as 6N7G, but it's pretty close. 
  
 Finally, the king of detail / air. C3g. There are some cheap ones on Ebay and some expensive ones. I've got a pair of the cheap ones, and they work pretty well. You'll probably need to pair this with some heavier tubes like 5998 (expensive) since they're pretty wild. Actually, I think the stage is about the same as 6N7G. These just have so much detail though. 
  
  
 I really love the 6N7G, so I'd go with them.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> If you can tolerate externally heating your tubes, FDD20 would give you pretty much exactly what you want. You say you don't like treble extension though, but the FDD20 definitely has great treble extension. That might be the only thing. I'm guessing though, that you don't like overly boosted treble, since it can introduce a certain harshness? Treble extension isn't the same as having a lot of treble.
> 
> Anyway, if you don't want to go the external heating route (which I can definitely understand), a pair of 6N7G is VERY close to FDD20 -- if not even the same. I think the FDD20 mids are a bit better than the 6N7G, but this could honestly just be psychological.
> 
> ...


 
 Fantastic help. Yes, I meant not too much boosted treble.
  
 I can see it's as much, if not more, a question of synergistic pairing of driver and power tubes and it's good to know the 6SN7 drivers are close to what would suit me. I think I will eventually try all those combinations- maybe even the externally powered ones-in time.
  
 As a interesting find I thought I recognised the box the stock drivers were in and I dug deep into my cupboard and found a very similar pair of boxes with Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tubes inside. This time made in the USA and of different construction. Can't remember when I bought them, probably a couple of years ago to use as power tubes in my LD, but it should be interesting to compare the two varieties in Elise. 
 Thanks again.


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 For your Expressivo I would recommend a pair of 6SN7 as power tubes. They draw 0.6A - all you need is a 9pin to octal adapter and it is plug-and-play. Then you could use the same 6SN7 tubes in the Elise. You just have to make sure that the current draw is within specs for this amp.
  
 Seems people like early 50's Ken-Rad/GE tubes - one of many good choices.


----------



## mordy

Funny - you already have them! All you need are the adapters for the Espressivo....


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> Fantastic help. Yes, I meant not too much boosted treble.
> 
> I can see it's as much, if not more, a question of synergistic pairing of driver and power tubes and it's good to know the 6SN7 drivers are close to what would suit me. I think I will eventually try all those combinations- maybe even the externally powered ones-in time.
> 
> ...


 
 Great to have someone willing to experiment! Looking forward to your impressions on all tubes!
  
 Edit: Oh right, forgot something. I'm currently waiting for parts to make a voltage doubler. If it is a success, you could possibly run FDD20 without the need for external heating.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> Great to have someone willing to experiment! Looking forward to your impressions on all tubes!
> 
> Edit: Oh right, forgot something. I'm currently waiting for parts to make a voltage doubler. If it is a success, you could possibly run FDD20 without the need for external heating.


 
 Look forward to your results too.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Funny - you already have them! All you need are the adapters for the Espressivo....


 
 I have a load of 6SN7 and single triode octals from Ember rolling days gone by.
  
 I thought exactly like you about using 6SN7's in Expressivo as they work so well in LD 2/2, which also use 6N6P as stock power tubes.
  
 So I tried 6SN7's as powers in Expressivo and just got horrid distortion, even at low volume. Tried several different ones and different adapters.
  
 Also tried dual single octals like 6J5's and only one channel would ever work. A bit weird that.
  
 Lukazs has told me Expressivo's circuit is not suitable for Octals like these, unfortunately.
  
 Mind you the stock 6N6P are good and I replaced them with some 6N6P-IR's, which I thought were slightly more detailed and with a marginally deeper sound stage. Can't complain and there are loads of options for driver rolling.


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 Sorry to hear that the 6SN7 did not work in the Expressivo, but you will have good use for them in the Elise.
  
 In my Little Dot days I tried several 6N6P variants. The best were the IR tubes - didn't want to spring for the DR tubes because of the expense. In any case, any 6SN7 sounded better than the 6N6P tubes i tried.
  
 Today I am politically correct and I am running my Elise only under it's own power with 6 x EL3N.
  
 Started out with two EL3N tubes as drivers and these have more than 400 hours on them and should be fully burned in. Afterwards I added another four EL3N tubes. Today, suddenly, the sound changed in the Elise with deeper bass - seems that the new batch of EL3N tubes reached some kind of milestone...I am not keeping a log on usage on this batch, but there was a marked change. According to some these tubes need some 400 hours of burn in and I am inclined to agree with this.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> Sorry to hear that the 6SN7 did not work in the Expressivo, but you will have good use for them in the Elise.
> 
> ...


 
 I had the same thoughts about those DR tubes-far too costly for me. Expressivo also sounded fine with 6N30P tubes, but no advantage over the 6N6P's to my ears.
  
 As far as Expressivo's drivers are concerned I like my Mullards, GE dark/smoked glass, Bugle Boys and Teslas, according to the music I'm listening to.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> Sorry to hear that the 6SN7 did not work in the Expressivo, but you will have good use for them in the Elise.
> 
> ...


 
 I remember the days of trying to decide whether to buy a pair of the DR tubes. Fortunately, I decided not to and moved on to the Elise.
  
 Does this make my new headphone stand look any better???? Here in the US it is against the law to be politically incorrect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 Apologize for how much my Samsung Note 4 camera sucks. I should probably start using my Nikon D7100. Or could it possibly be the photographer????


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> I remember the days of trying to decide whether to buy a pair of the DR tubes. Fortunately, I decided not to and moved on to the Elise.
> 
> Does this make my new headphone stand look any better???? Here in the US it is against the law to be politically incorrect.
> 
> ...




I have the same Nikon D7100 but rarely use it for tube photography  That stand is badass, did you make it yourself?


----------



## geetarman49

lord raven said:


> Awesome, G'man  It mean's you'll get it soon, prepare yourself with all the tube combos and cables and make room for the Elise hehe
> 
> Good luck!
> LR


 
  
  


jazzvinyl said:


> Ha!
> 
> And soon ye shall be a *LUCKY ONE*!!!
> 
> Congrats!


 
  
 sorry for the late reply, guys ... thnx for the hosannas ... finally caught up in this thread.  my elise has been in customs for the past 2 days; i don't expect it to be released until either end of week or early next week. 
  
 in the meantime i've mostly been away from this thread (not even lurking) & spending time researching quantum/nano dot & oled 4k tv.  while prices for 2016 models in the u.s. are indicative of free market economy, here in the land of maple syrup & beliebers, pricing is pretty much fly-papered just like senn did with the hd800 for the first 2 yrs.
 e.g.  lg 60uh8500 is ~ $1797us on amazon  vs $2998can on costco.ca
  
@connieflyer  --- what can i say?  my sincere condolences ...


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> WOW-  that's great news.
> I've just received my tracking number too.


 

 thnx; i should have mine within the next 2 wks (in customs at the moment) ---


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Today I am politically correct and I am running my Elise only under it's own power with 6 x EL3N.
> 
> Started out with two EL3N tubes as drivers and these have more than 400 hours on them and should be fully burned in. Afterwards I added another four EL3N tubes. Today, suddenly, the sound changed in the Elise with deeper bass - seems that the new batch of EL3N tubes reached some kind of milestone...I am not keeping a log on usage on this batch, but there was a marked change. According to some these tubes need some 400 hours of burn in and I am inclined to agree with this.


 
 That's right. When the time is up, EL3N will lit up your northern skies.
  
 Now tell that to those who say EL3N has less air than 6SN7 and that it is narrow and muddled and no treble. Next someone will tell me they have no midrange and no bass. Probably no sound too.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> That's right. When the time is up, EL3N will lit up your northern skies.
> 
> Now tell that to those who say EL3N has less air than 6SN7 and that it is narrow and muddled and no treble. Next someone will tell me they have no midrange and no bass. Probably no sound too.




My camels are cheering  for this announcement  let's reach the 400 hour burn in..


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> That's right. When the time is up, EL3N will lit up your northern skies.
> 
> Now tell that to those who say EL3N has less air than 6SN7 and that it is narrow and muddled and no treble. Next someone will tell me they have no midrange and no bass. Probably no sound too.


 
 I can't tell if that's an indirect attack at me or not. I certainly don't mean to step on any toes, but I stand by what I've said. Those are my findings, and I'm not alone. 
  
 It certainly is weird that there's a clear cut difference between our experiences. Some say EL3N has a lot of air and some say it has none. It seems something is amiss, but I cannot think of what it could be.


----------



## UntilThen

A fully burned in EL3N will have the silky smoothness of ECC31. A midrange second to none and a bass that's equally impactful but with less resonance. A treble way ahead of ECC31. 
  
 6xEL3N does have a fuller sound and more texture and density. It will pair very well with T1 G1 or HD800 original or HD600. With a stock HD650 or HD800S or T1 G2, it will sound heavier but still a very engaging and more blossom tone. Narrow and muddled definitely not. What I hear is great clarity and details. I've numerous feedback from others who told me the same listening experience.
  
 It cannot compare to C3G in the treble but I know of no other tubes that does. C3G though has too much of a treble emphasis if you listen long term. I don't think it's suitable for daily usage.
  
 It will sound less pin point sharp as 6SN7. That I will agree. However I'll take the BIGGER sound of EL3N. That is with my gear and ears.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I can't tell if that's an indirect attack at me or not. I certainly don't mean to step on any toes, but I stand by what I've said. Those are my findings, and I'm not alone.
> 
> It certainly is weird that there's a clear cut difference between our experiences. Some say EL3N has a lot of air and some say it has none. It seems something is amiss, but I cannot think of what it could be.


 
 To be fair you need to burn in your EL3N then tell me your impressions. You would certainly know by now that burning in is not a myth. It will change the tonal character of the tube.
  
 You may call it indirect attack but I'm saying as I hear it. Just trying to clarify the sound of EL3N.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> To be fair you need to burn in your EL3N then tell me your impressions. You would certainly know by now that burning in is not a myth. It will change the tonal character of the tube.
> 
> You may call it indirect attack but I'm saying as I hear it. Just trying to clarify the sound of EL3N.


 
 I have 50 hours on the EL3N, which I believe is more than enough to burn in a tube. It's not like I haven't given it a chance. I even had a bias towards liking it, but I didn't. 
  
 I'm generally a pretty blunt person, but I don't feel like I've said anything wrong. I hope no one has taken offense as no offense was meant for anyone. I just don't like EL3N and I've stated why.


----------



## UntilThen

suuup said:


> I have 50 hours on the EL3N, which I believe is more than enough to burn in a tube. It's not like I haven't given it a chance. I even had a bias towards liking it, but I didn't.
> 
> I'm generally a pretty blunt person, but I don't feel like I've said anything wrong. I hope no one has taken offense as no offense was meant for anyone. I just don't like EL3N and I've stated why.


 
 No offense taken but I'm trying to understand why you have such a different experience. 
  
 You've just heard how Mordy says he hears distinct changes at the 400 hours plus mark. I'll second that. @hypnos1 has always been saying that.
  
 I'm not in the least trying to convince you to like EL3N. I hardly think anyone is in the least offended if some of you don't like EL3N but we will clarity what we hear from this tube.
  
 50 hours is hardly enough to awaken these decades old tubes. Any tubes for that matter. Give it a minimum 100 hours and you'll hear changes.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> No offense taken but I'm trying to understand why you have such a different experience.
> 
> You've just heard how Mordy says he hears distinct changes at the 400 hours plus mark. I'll second that. @hypnos1 has always been saying that.
> 
> ...


 
 I haven't really experienced any changes on any tubes past the 50 hour mark so far. Not saying it isn't true, but I haven't found it to be the case for any of my tubes so far. Many of my tubes are 6N7G variants though.
  
 Now that I think about it, I have 31x 6N7G-family tubes. (6N7G, ECC31, FDD20, Russians)
  
 I believe the change needed to get anywhere close to your experience is WAY more than burn in can ever provide.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> A fully burned in EL3N will have the silky smoothness of ECC31. A midrange second to none and a bass that's equally impactful but with less resonance. A treble way ahead of ECC31.
> 
> 6xEL3N does have a fuller sound and more texture and density. It will pair very well with T1 G1 or HD800 original or HD600. With a stock HD650 or HD800S or T1 G2, it will sound heavier but still a very engaging and more blossom tone. Narrow and muddled definitely not. What I hear is great clarity and details. I've numerous feedback from others who told me the same listening experience.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with your description of how 6XEL3N sounds with the HD800S. It is a very good sound. Maybe not my absolute favorite, but very near the top. It's what I'm listening to today, but probably will go back to EL3N drivers and 6520 powers I was listening to yesterday and really enjoying. Haven't quite decided between EL3N or TS6sN7-GTB for my driver of preference. But I could easily live with either.
  
 I personally don't particularly like C3Gs with the Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> I have the same Nikon D7100 but rarely use it for tube photography
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you exalted Saudi Prince)) You have true taste of royalty
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry, not of my creation. I'm just grateful it came fully assembled. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm embarrassed to tell you what I paid for the stand, but it is a matter of public record 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261904729191?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Alright I want to know where the cabin is because I'm coming too. Tears of joy for you too that 1) you're loving Elise sound and 2) it makes a big difference to your T1. This is the magic synergy of Elise + T1. Now you'll get LR really excited.
> 
> I agree about thanking @hypnos1.... and Feliks Audio obviously. Incredible amp for the price.


 





 I am very excited to try my 6 pack on the in coming T1, wish me luck guys, I only have 4 pack atm hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> Thank you exalted Saudi Prince)) You have true taste of royalty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That stand is going to last forever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am willing to get a stand when my collection of headphones grows hehe T1 + HD600, they deserve a show case...


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> That stand is going to last forever
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The suspense is killing me. We NEED the LR T1 report YESTERDAY !!!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> That stand is going to last forever
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 T1 and HD600 is a good combination. You should keep the Senns too. You're not going to get much money selling it so might as well keep it.
  
 As for stands, I prefer one where you hook on rather than clamp on. The clamp on ones will loosen the headphone grip over time.
  
 Don't do this


----------



## UntilThen

A stand for tubes as well?


----------



## connieflyer

Nice stand, well, getting back into the music now, had the 6n7, and 5998's in  for awhile, decided after all the talk on El3n's I should put the 6 pack back in. Had to take the tubes out of the adapters, to have them fit in tube drawers.  Put them back in the adapters fired it up and nasty.  Serious hum in left, shut down, swapped sides, serious hum in right side. Took adapter out swapped tubes found which socket was the problem, tried prying from the back of the pins? on the adapter, they all spung out, put back tube, no joy, tried different tube, no joy, still hum. Probably have to order another adapter. Tried the El3n, drivers, 2 6sn7's 2 6bl7's not bad.  Not as good as the 6 pack EL3N's, so have to go back to the 5998's till I can get another adapter, will try tomorrow to (fix) it again, but probably won't work.  Should have known not to take the tubes out of the stupid adapters.  They worked fine till then. Oh well what you going to do.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Nice stand, well, getting back into the music now, had the 6n7, and 5998's in  for awhile, decided after all the talk on El3n's I should put the 6 pack back in. Had to take the tubes out of the adapters, to have them fit in tube drawers.  Put them back in the adapters fired it up and nasty.  Serious hum in left, shut down, swapped sides, serious hum in right side. Took adapter out swapped tubes found which socket was the problem, tried prying from the back of the pins? on the adapter, they all spung out, put back tube, no joy, tried different tube, no joy, still hum. Probably have to order another adapter. Tried the El3n, drivers, 2 6sn7's 2 6bl7's not bad.  Not as good as the 6 pack EL3N's, so have to go back to the 5998's till I can get another adapter, will try tomorrow to (fix) it again, but probably won't work.  Should have known not to take the tubes out of the stupid adapters.  They worked fine till then. Oh well what you going to do.


 

 Send the adapter to me and I'll fix it. 
  
 Look at this picture. See where the small flat screw driver is inserted. Right down at the base of the spring.. in the hole. Push down on the handle in a fulcrum motion and the middle part of the spring will push outwards. Do that for all the springs and reinsert tube and voila it's hum free again.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> A stand for tubes as well?




Really multi-purpose stand that is. Can also be used as choping board?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Really multi-purpose stand that is. Can also be used as chooping board?


 

 True. Looks like the wife's chopping board is stolen. Hey I can find one as base for my TT.


----------



## connieflyer

Tried prying the pins up, do you know what happens when you push hard with a very narrow screwdriver, yep, you put a hole in your hand!  I figured it out just before your post UT, they seem to be okay, now, the tube took some effort and snapped in like the others, will have to try them tomorrow, Getting a little late now, not much sleep lately so picked up some Ambien pills and will play with the dog till they kick in, try to get some rest.  Big day tomorrow. Have to water the flowers and ahhhhhh well, not so big anymore.  Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement, it will take some time but will keep at it.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Tried prying the pins up, do you know what happens when you push hard with a very narrow screwdriver, yep, you put a hole in your hand!  I figured it out just before your post UT, they seem to be okay, now, the tube took some effort and snapped in like the others, will have to try them tomorrow, Getting a little late now, not much sleep lately so picked up some Ambien pills and will play with the dog till they kick in, try to get some rest.  Big day tomorrow. Have to water the flowers and ahhhhhh well, not so big anymore.  Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement, it will take some time but will keep at it.


 

 No strength required to push down on the screwdriver. Gently. Not lifting up a tow truck force. Anyway looks like you've got it.
  
 I'm going to send you a card. That's because I'm old fashion. Have a good rest.


----------



## UntilThen

Ray Charles was blind by the time he was 7 but he turn out to be an incredible singer. Such a beautiful rendition here.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Tried prying the pins up, do you know what happens when you push hard with a very narrow screwdriver, yep, you put a hole in your hand!  I figured it out just before your post UT, they seem to be okay, now, the tube took some effort and snapped in like the others, will have to try them tomorrow, Getting a little late now, not much sleep lately so picked up some Ambien pills and will play with the dog till they kick in, try to get some rest.  Big day tomorrow. Have to water the flowers and ahhhhhh well, not so big anymore.  Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement, it will take some time but will keep at it.


 
 Just want to wish you good sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

@geetarman go to customs now and get your Elise.


----------



## Lord Raven

I remember I had to travel to a different city to get my Elise off customs hands, that was a very tough day, I was fasting back then and travelling 150 miles in 50C weather :/ @geetarman49 hope this motivates you, do it 
  
@pctazhp The T1 has landed on the arab soil, it is still 1000 ground miles away from me  Might take another night, but it is coming, God willing! I wish to receive it soon, good luck to me


----------



## UntilThen

I think customs have your T1 and Gee's Elise and testing it out now.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> I think customs have your T1 and Gee's Elise and testing it out now.




The best conspiracy I have read for a long time... 

I hope they are not testing my Soundaware D100Pro music transport.


----------



## UntilThen

Daymmm that D100 Pro sounds snazzy. You should sell that idea to LR. He has several hard drives of music.

At USD $1400...hmmm very pricey.


----------



## lukeap69

I have purchased the 'basic, model which runs at 850USD shipped to ME. Yeah, I woulf think LR will be happy with this especially if his DAC accepts BNC or AES. For coax, there is the 'cheaper' D200 which is 150USD cheaper at 699USD.


----------



## richdytch

Here's a question... could I use my old little dot mkiii for burning in my el3n tubes in the power slots? I could make them fit into the old 6SN7 adapters I bought for it. Would they overload the LD?

I'm determined to stick with the EL3N and try to see its full potential. I tried it briefly last night, and they were great, but just not as great as the Ken Rads currently sound on my particular system. Maybe more burn in will yield different results.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Here's a question... could I use my old little dot mkiii for burning in my el3n tubes in the power slots? I could make them fit into the old 6SN7 adapters I bought for it. Would they overload the LD?
> 
> I'm determined to stick with the EL3N and try to see its full potential. I tried it briefly last night, and they were great, but just not as great as the Ken Rads currently sound on my particular system. Maybe more burn in will yield different results.


 

 I'm not sure if it will be ok to use in the LD. Just burn it in Elise as you listen to music.
  
 6SN7 and EL3N are very different tonally. EL3N are closer to ECC31. Depending on your setup, one or the other might be the better option.
  
 I've give you an example. I heard both HD800 and HD800S on a Woo Wa2 using Bugle Boys drivers and GEC 6AS7G as powers. The amp and tubes are warm and lush sounding. HD800 original sounds perfect with it. However as soon as I put on the HD800S, I find that it's too warm and lush for my liking. 
  
 Subsequently I heard the HD800S on a more neutral sounding system. It has the Audio Gd Master 6 and an Audio Gd amp (I don't know what series it is). This was run in balanced mode. HD800S sounds beautiful with magical clarity and details on this setup. A bit light but was perfect for the Jazz track that I was listening to at that time.
  
 So these 2 headphones the HD800 and HD800S they don't sound quite the same tonally and are best suited with different tubes. To my ears as usual. 
  
 ps.. to the extent of over repeating, EL3N sound matures over time and this is not a myth or hype.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I have purchased the 'basic, model which runs at 850USD shipped to ME. Yeah, I woulf think LR will be happy with this especially if his DAC accepts BNC or AES. For coax, there is the 'cheaper' D200 which is 150USD cheaper at 699USD.


 

 I was going to call you Luke then saw your footnote where it says to call you Arnold. 
  
 Anyway I saw photo of your Glenn Darna. Looks very impressive.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> I was going to call you Luke then saw your footnote where it says to call you Arnold.
> 
> Anyway I saw photo of your Glenn Darna. Looks very impressive.




Glad you looked at my sig. 

Darna is really impressive. I can use six-6BL7's or two or four-6AS7's or two-6336's. For my PM-2 I have just discovered yesterday that four-6AS7's (Chatham) are really excellent. And I do not need adapter in rolling all those tubes.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> I'm not sure if it will be ok to use in the LD. Just burn it in Elise as you listen to music.
> 
> 6SN7 and EL3N are very different tonally. EL3N are closer to ECC31. Depending on your setup, one or the other might be the better option.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT. It's unlikely I'd do much serious listening with EL3N in the LD. I was wondering more about whether the transformer could handle the current draw. The old 6N6P-IR used to run fairly hot, so I don't think the LD is a stranger to slightly higher current loads, but thought I should check. Was basically thinking of using the LD more as a burn-in machine - and I'd probably keep it next to my computer and listen  to it a little while I'm working and only half paying attention to the music


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Glad you looked at my sig.
> 
> Darna is really impressive. I can use six-6BL7's or two or four-6AS7's or two-6336's. For my PM-2 I have just discovered yesterday that four-6AS7's (Chatham) are really excellent. And I do not need adapter in rolling all those tubes.


 

 That's awesome. A customize amp to run C3G, 6BL7 and 6AS7 without the need for adapters would be ideal and no doubt sound good. Those various combinations there will give you many options and tones.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Hi UT. It's unlikely I'd do much serious listening with EL3N in the LD. I was wondering more about whether the transformer could handle the current draw. The old 6N6P-IR used to run fairly hot, so I don't think the LD is a stranger to slightly higher current loads, but thought I should check. Was basically thinking of using the LD more as a burn-in machine - and I'd probably keep it next to my computer and listen  to it a little while I'm working and only half paying attention to the music


 

 Yup got you. I don't know if the EL3N as strapped triodes will work in your LD or if it will send it to audio heaven.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> Yup got you. I don't know if the EL3N as strapped triodes will work in your LD or if it will send it to audio heaven.


 
  
  
 Heheh, I better do some more in-depth research - don't want to blow up either the amp or tubes. Would this be a first? Surely someone has tried EL3N in the LD...


----------



## HOWIE13

Only got a rubbish camera but thought it time to post a picture of my Elise.
  
 I couldn't resist taking the ECC88 Bugle Boys out of Expressivo and trying them in Elise with the stock power tubes still in.
  
 Elise sounds lovely with Bugle Boy drivers -warm and clear, and depth of sound-stage very good. Not as detailed as with the stock 6SN7's but more euphonic for want of a better description, and subjectively a bit more gain maybe.
  
 I can't say how the 6DJ8's in general would sound in Elise, maybe there's info about this earlier in the thread, (6N23P's have been tried before), nor do I know how they compare with anything else in Elise as I've only been able to listen for about 3 hours to Elise since she arrived, but these Bugle Boys do sound good.
  
 PS. Mullard ECC88 are good too- a little cooler and more detailed than Bugle Boy and wide sound stage.


----------



## UntilThen

Love picture thread.  Thanks for the photo.
  
 In the early days I tried a pair of 6N23P Russian Rocket year 1975 and I was quite amazed at the bass produced by this mighty mouse. Over all a pretty good tone too. I've also tried 6BQ7A.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Love picture thread.  Thanks for the photo.
> 
> In the early days I tried a pair of 6N23P Russian Rocket year 1975 and I was quite amazed at the bass produced by this mighty mouse. Over all a pretty good tone too. I've also tried 6BQ7A.


 
 It's fascinating how the same tube can sound different in different amps. I always found the 6N23P to be rather hard and forceful in G1217 amps and Bugle Boy more detailed with more mid and treble than bass- different from what I find in Elise. I suppose it would also depend on Elise's power tubes.
 Now I must dig out my 6N23P and put it into Elise- though come to think of it I may have only purchased one.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> Love picture thread.  Thanks for the photo.
> 
> In the early days I tried a pair of 6N23P Russian Rocket year 1975 and I was quite amazed at the bass produced by this mighty mouse. Over all a pretty good tone too. I've also tried 6BQ7A.




Impressive. Make them glow...


----------



## HOWIE13

lukeap69 said:


> Impressive. Make them glow...


 
 Yes those adapters are rather more photogenic than some of the others, I must say.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> It's fascinating how the same tube can sound different in different amps. I always found the 6N23P to be rather hard and forceful in G1217 amps and Bugle Boy more detailed with more mid and treble than bass- different from what I find in Elise. I suppose it would also depend on Elise's power tubes.
> Now I must dig out my 6N23P and put it into Elise- though come to think of it I may have only purchased one.


 

 There's nothing to stop you using one Bugle Boy with the Rocket.  Although your Bugle Boy should be better I think... I've never experimented with different variety of those small tubes. 
  
 Here I'm using 6CQ7 and a 6GU7 which is compatible with 6SN7 but you need the adapters. A friend here in Head-Fi gave me these tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

well no joywith the El3n adapter, still humming right along, so I guess I will take it apart and reflow all the connections until I can get another. Moved my dac and Elise with a laptop into main system room, hooked it up to Harman-Kardon avr2100 and psb speakers and it sounds really nice as a preamp. Going to move main computer in here as well, no reason not to now.  Then will have all I need in one room, maybe rent out other rooms to single young female, yea right.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 I seem to remember that the Little Dot MKIII can handle up to 1A in the power slots, and this should be fine for using 0.9A tubes like the EL3N. However, as you have seen on the thread, the EL3N adapters are very temperamental, and IMHO it is better not to move them around too much. You are better off to leave the tubes in the Elise and wait for them to burn in - it is a pleasant trip, with those interspersed "wow!" moments......
  
 Hi Howie13,
  
 In the beginning I tried some small signal tubes in the Elise - I think that I remember that some 6DJ8 tubes caused a lot of hum.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> I seem to remember that the Little Dot MKIII can handle up to 1A in the power slots, and this should be fine for using 0.9A tubes like the EL3N. However, as you have seen on the thread, the EL3N adapters are very temperamental, and IMHO it is better not to move them around too much. You are better off to leave the tubes in the Elise and wait for them to burn in - it is a pleasant trip, with those interspersed "wow!" moments......
> 
> ...


 
 I've only tried Bugle Boy and Mullard and those are very quiet with no hum or microphony.
 From what I'm reading the issue of hums seems very variable and more dependent on the rest of the system/adapters, wiring in the house, the idiosyncracity of individual tubes, and other external factors, rather than Elise herself. Hit and miss I guess.
 I'll try a few more 6DJ8's in the next day or two- they do sound very nice.


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> I seem to remember that the Little Dot MKIII can handle up to 1A in the power slots, and this should be fine for using 0.9A tubes like the EL3N. However, as you have seen on the thread, the EL3N adapters are very temperamental, and IMHO it is better not to move them around too much. You are better off to leave the tubes in the Elise and wait for them to burn in - it is a pleasant trip, with those interspersed "wow!" moments......
> 
> ...




Hi Mordy. Thanks for the info - I had actually been wondering recently if the adapters could be contributing to the hum I've been experiencing with the EL3N. I might see if any of the new ones that are on their way behave any better. I did have to slightly push in the contacts to get the tubes in at first. Maybe that didn't help.

I'll do as you say and just use them. As I mentioned, they still sound great, definitely shouldn't be forgotten.

Rich


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> I think customs have your T1 and Gee's Elise and testing it out now.


 
  
 LOL If that is the case, I am going to leave this country sooner


----------



## Lord Raven

I have about 11 TB storage space 
  
 Quote:


untilthen said:


> Daymmm that D100 Pro sounds snazzy. You should sell that idea to LR. He has several hard drives of music.
> 
> At USD $1400...hmmm very pricey.


 
  
 I do have these inputs in my DAC, in fact I am considering buying F-1 USB/SPDIF adapter to go a different route  But, I am not spending more money on a transport 
  


lukeap69 said:


> I have purchased the 'basic, model which runs at 850USD shipped to ME. Yeah, I woulf think LR will be happy with this especially if his DAC accepts BNC or AES. For coax, there is the 'cheaper' D200 which is 150USD cheaper at 699USD.


----------



## lukeap69

lord raven said:


> I do have these inputs in my DAC, in fact I am considering buying F-1 USB/SPDIF adapter to go a different route  But, I am not spending more money on a transport


 
 I stopped looking for these digital interface/decrapifier etc involving USB and PC/Mac. That's why I decided to buy a dedicated transport which if one believes the impressions available online are better. Anyway, this is the Elise thread so let's go back to regular programming... The camels.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> well no joywith the El3n adapter, still humming right along, so I guess I will take it apart and reflow all the connections until I can get another. Moved my dac and Elise with a laptop into main system room, hooked it up to Harman-Kardon avr2100 and psb speakers and it sounds really nice as a preamp. Going to move main computer in here as well, no reason not to now.  Then will have all I need in one room, maybe rent out other rooms to single young female, yea right.


 

 I should bring a few bottles of grog and have a powwow with you there. 
  
 Glad you tried using Elise as preamp too. Unfortunate about the continuing hum but yeah work again gently on the spring contacts. Hum on EL3N is always due to it not seating properly in the adapter. I really wish it had the octal pins instead of the paddle feet.


----------



## Lord Raven

lukeap69 said:


> I stopped looking for these digital interface/decrapifier etc involving USB and PC/Mac. That's why I decided to buy a dedicated transport which if one believes the impressions available online are better. Anyway, this is the Elise thread so let's go back to regular programming... The camels.


 
  
 LOL my camel's would love a transport 
  
 I am checking it out now, I think it is better not to spend 1k on USB de-crapifiers and just buy something decent  The Sonare microRendu is 699$ alone  I am not spending money on this technology.
  
 We can talk about improving music in this thread, why not? Only UT is using TT LOL
  
 Edit: This system can not do DSD or anything? Then it would be not suited for me :/


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> Hi Mordy. Thanks for the info - I had actually been wondering recently if the adapters could be contributing to the hum I've been experiencing with the EL3N. I might see if any of the new ones that are on their way behave any better. I did have to slightly push in the contacts to get the tubes in at first. Maybe that didn't help.
> 
> I'll do as you say and just use them. As I mentioned, they still sound great, definitely shouldn't be forgotten.
> 
> Rich


 

 If it's hum you're getting with EL3N, I'd look at reseating the tubes first. Get those contacts out again.


----------



## UntilThen

No harm at all talking about source and headphones and accessories. It's all got to do with our end game LOL. I don't want to hear the end anymore. It needs to continue. End means no more.
  
 Turntable? Oh yeah.. resting it a couple of days as I move back to the digital realm. 
  
 Transport - get a Mac Mini.  Or I can sell you my legendary Steve Jobs's iPod classic 160gb all shining chrome 21st century transport.
  
 ... but I'm getting the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge instead. You can get music around the smooth edge.


----------



## UntilThen

Running RCA 6SN7gt VT231 Smoke Glass with Tung Sol 7236 now in Elise. 
  
 Hmmmm ... very the nice  This has nice synergy with my T1. Definitely try out the 7236. They are very good sounding.


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> No harm at all talking about source and headphones and accessories. It's all got to do with our end game LOL. I don't want to hear the end anymore. It needs to continue. End means no more.
> 
> Turntable? Oh yeah.. resting it a couple of days as I move back to the digital realm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hehe I would like some nice edges  I think there is no end is music reproduction industry  No one wants an end!
  
 I am going to try some different techniques before I settled down with my transport method  Clean power and signal is on top of my priority list atm  Then my camels need more EL3N!!!


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Clean power and signal is on top of my priority list atm


 
 Don't be obsessed with clean power. In life on earth, you need surface noise. That's what they say about turntable. Same goes for your PC. I am not even aware of my PC fan spinning now with this Summit Fi headphone on my head and the volume up at only 9am.
  
 I've a ultra quiet PC fan btw.


----------



## lukeap69

lord raven said:


> Edit: This system can not do DSD or anything? Then it would be not suited for me :/


 
 I believe it can play DSD with the firmware update.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> @geetarman go to customs now and get your Elise.


 

 almost 3.5k km drive to customs (& no ... no more flying this year).  beside i'm too busy researching out best 4k tv for the $$$$ & trying to avoid the fake 4k mess.


----------



## JerseyD

Holy guacamole. I go away for a few days and find 970 unread posts in this thread! You people are a world unto yourselves....the planet Elise!


----------



## Oskari

jerseyd said:


> Holy guacamole. I go away for a few days and find 970 unread posts in this thread! You people are a world unto yourselves....the planet Elise!




Business as usual in the Elise thread.


----------



## oshipao

Guess who's been having his Elise on service for a week and a half and HOPEFULLY receives it tomorrow?


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Guess who's been having his Elise on service for a week and a half and HOPEFULLY receives it tomorrow?


 
  
 Ultra tune? Should sound better when it's finished.


----------



## UntilThen

geetarman49 said:


> almost 3.5k km drive to customs (& no ... no more flying this year).  beside i'm too busy researching out best 4k tv for the $$$$ & trying to avoid the fake 4k mess.


 

 My eyes deceive me. I thought it's 3.5k in which case you could have jog there. 
  
 I've just ordered my 4k tv in a miniature size. Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge in gold and hopefully a redeemable VR 5D goggle.


----------



## richard89

Hey guys I just received the Elise in the mail today and plugged it in for a quick listen. The stock tubes feel really hot after 10 minutes of use. Is this normal? Thanks. Richard


----------



## UntilThen

The tubes will be really hot when in operation so no touching it. Chassis shouldn't be as hot.
  
 Quote from a tube amp owner, not Elise.
  
the four power tubes get to be about 350 degrees F. The two smaller ones are around 160F. This is just sitting idle, I have not measured the temp after playing music yet. 
  
 One other thing. When swapping tubes make sure it's really cool down before you pull it out.


----------



## mordy

My experience has been that the tubes run cooler after they have burned in - minimum 30-50 hours.
  
 Also - pay attention to the numbering of the tubes written by hand on the wraps - corresponds to sockets.


----------



## mordy

Do you know what a legal connection is? (In airline speak)
  
_A legal connection is one that gives you at least this minimum connection time between flights._
  
 Somebody figures out how long time it takes at a specific airport to change from international to domestic or move from one terminal to another, or go through customs etc. Doesn't always work though....
  
 Anyhow, here is a "legal" Elise set-up without external power ( why am I obsessed about this? ): Sounds great - inspired partially by DecentLevi:
  
 Showing half of the tube complement for clarity - using 2 each 6N7G, 6BL7 and EL3N
  





  




  
 Vivid and punchy and 100% Humpfrey!


----------



## UntilThen

If you know a song well enough, you'll appreciate it even more.
  
 So here's an analysis of Lying Eyes by the Eagles

  
 then you listen to the actual song with the lyrics


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> My eyes deceive me. I thought it's 3.5k in which case you could have jog there.
> 
> I've just ordered my 4k tv in a miniature size. Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge in gold and hopefully a redeemable VR 5D goggle.


 
 sure 3.5k  as in 3,500 km --- they say you can make it in 33hr nonstop, but realistically it's more like 50hr when you include all the stops.
  
 4k used to be simple --- just 4k with rgb; now it's rgbw and not so much real 4k. ofc, if one can afford the totl, then no worries about the fake stuff.


----------



## connieflyer

Well tried bending the tabs again,no joy. took out rebent more this time joy took tubes out threw up against wall, feel much better now.  Put tubes in just for grins, works, so solution is if it doesn/t work throw against wall everything works and these tubes will not becoming out of adapters again.  Think I will try it with lawn mower tomorrow


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Well tried bending the tabs again,no joy. took out rebent more this time joy took tubes out threw up against wall, feel much better now.  Put tubes in just for grins, works, so solution is if it doesn/t work throw against wall everything works and these tubes will not becoming out of adapters again.  Think I will try it with lawn mower tomorrow


 

 HAHAHA !!!


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, nice and interesting stuff on "Lyin Eyes"


----------



## Lord Raven

connieflyer said:


> Well tried bending the tabs again,no joy. took out rebent more this time joy took tubes out threw up against wall, feel much better now.  Put tubes in just for grins, works, so solution is if it doesn/t work throw against wall everything works and these tubes will not becoming out of adapters again.  Think I will try it with lawn mower tomorrow


 
  
 Now, never ever take tube out of these white elephant's mouth  LOL


----------



## UntilThen

These adapters does allow for some good sounding combos used in the power sockets. As some of you have found. I told CF to try EL3N as drivers and 6BL7 and 6SN7 in the power slots and he loves it as much as I do.
  

  
 However, I'm on a roll and what I have once discard off, I now find the RCA 6SN7gt VT231 Smoke Glass to pair very well with Tung Sol 7236. Really loving it. It's been there the whole morning. Listening to Jeff Beck Live.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> @UntilThen, nice and interesting stuff on "Lyin Eyes"


 
  
 Now I'll challenge you to sing and to play a musical instrument.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, I'll get my Bach Stradivarius trumpet out of storage, I can still play it, but you might not want to listen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 As for the singing part, I usually go to karaoke bars with the GF and friends once a month so you are welcome to join us, some of the girls are really good singers and while others have great moves, always get me excited


----------



## UntilThen

The Elise contingent will be meeting in Hawaii in Oct and all of us will see you and the girls there. We'll take over a whole karaoke bar. For now, we'll be learning to sing with Elise and our ukuleles.


----------



## connieflyer

nothing holding me back might be there myself


----------



## mordy

Here is some ukulele music played by Craig Ventresco - one of the greatest contemporary guitar players and proficient on many other string instruments, including ukulele:
  

  
 (His dog is sleeping through the whole performance in his lap...)


----------



## richard89

Hey guys I got myself into some trouble while unpackaging the Elise and a piece of styrofoam fell into the air vent -- I was really excited and played music on it anyways for the past few hours. But I'm really worried it might melt inside and I dont know what to do. Can anyone give me some advice? Is there anyway to open it up and see? Thanks for all the help so far.
  
  
 P.S I think it may have fell out already. I just looked at the bottom of the amp and thought to myself "OMG THIS AMP IS SO ******* SEXY!" IT HAS THE FELIKS LOGO AT THE BOTTOM!
  
 The sound is so beautiful on this amp, it's insane, I cannot wait to try out different tube combinations on it. I'm simply amazed.


----------



## JazzVinyl

richard89 said:


> Hey guys I got myself into some trouble while unpackaging the Elise and a piece of styrofoam fell into the air vent -- I was really excited and played music on it anyways for the past few hours. But I'm really worried it might melt inside and I dont know what to do. Can anyone give me some advice? Is there anyway to open it up and see? Thanks for all the help so far.
> 
> 
> P.S I think it may have fell out already. I just looked at the bottom of the amp and thought to myself "OMG THIS AMP IS SO ******* SEXY!" IT HAS THE FELIKS LOGO AT THE BOTTOM!




Congrats on the new arrival!!

Hope the errand styrofoam did come out, as it gets rather warm, under there.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Chic Corea and his "Return To Forever" featuring Flora Purim on vocals 




[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qRZ7v82vYqY [/VIDEO]


----------



## mordy

Here is a an excellent rendition of a 20's tune by the the great contemporary trumpet player Andy Schumm who plays in the style of Bix Beiderbecke. Sound quality is quite good:


----------



## UntilThen

@richard89 are you using HD800 with your Elise.


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> @richard89 are you using HD800 with your Elise.


 
 No I'm actually using an unmodded HD650


----------



## UntilThen

ok I was looking at your avatar picture.

Hd650 will sound awesome with Elise too.


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> ok I was looking at your avatar picture.
> 
> Hd650 will sound awesome with Elise too.


 
 I just changed it. I'm glad I was not let down by this purchase.
  
 What happened to the ownership pole? I want to rank Elise as #1 now


----------



## UntilThen

Judging from your comments I don't think you are. 

Congrats on your new tube amp.

Voting exploded. Too many number 1.


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> Ultra tune? Should sound better when it's finished.




Exactly!

Ultra depth, ultra linearity, ultra clarity etc. 
Should be as good as it gets now.


----------



## richdytch

untilthen said:


> If it's hum you're getting with EL3N, I'd look at reseating the tubes first. Get those contacts out again.




I'll be giving it a go as soon as I get back from my work trip to London. Looking forward to getting back - I always look forward to hearing my system again after a few days of Sennheiser HD202 and my phone


----------



## UntilThen

Well you're going to miss Elise that's for sure. Till you get home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I really like this power tube - Tung Sol 7236. Goes well with any drivers. Even the stock ones. I think if FA issue this as stock tubes, you don't need to change tubes. It's that good. There's some on eBay with Cetron brand. They are same. Sylvania 7236 are supposed to be different but I can't be sure as I have not heard it.
  

  
  
 Dang both Cetron and Sylvania 7236 all sold out.


----------



## lukeap69

There is a pair of Tung Sol 7236 on the FS forum at 85USD. You may want to check that.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> There is a pair of Tung Sol 7236 on the FS forum at 85USD. You may want to check that.


 

 Tempting but I'm overflowing with tubes 
  
 For anyone here looking for a good pair of power tubes for Elise, this looks good value. Go for it.


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> *The sound is so beautiful on this amp, it's insane*, I cannot wait to try out different tube combinations on it. I'm simply amazed.


 
 Richard, your insanity begins now and will go on indefinitely. 
  
 I'm using my modded HD650 now with Elise and stock drivers plus Tung Sol 7236 as per above photo and just sat through listening to Hell Freezes Over by Eagles, Endless River by Pink Floyd and now on Emotion and Commotion by Jeff Beck and it's insanely good.
  
 Sound is like a moisturizer through my ear canals. It's velvety and silky. It's chest pounding and pulse racing. Ok...ran out of descriptions.


----------



## Lord Raven

richard89 said:


> Hey guys I got myself into some trouble while unpackaging the Elise and a piece of styrofoam fell into the air vent -- I was really excited and played music on it anyways for the past few hours. But I'm really worried it might melt inside and I dont know what to do. Can anyone give me some advice? Is there anyway to open it up and see? Thanks for all the help so far.
> 
> 
> P.S I think it may have fell out already. I just looked at the bottom of the amp and thought to myself "OMG THIS AMP IS SO ******* SEXY!" IT HAS THE FELIKS LOGO AT THE BOTTOM!
> ...


 
  
 Congratulations @richard89  Mine was unboxed by the customs, and when I got it home, there was a piece of plastic wire sleeve stuck in the vents, I had to pull it out, it might be the leftovers during production hehe


----------



## Lord Raven

untilthen said:


> Don't be obsessed with clean power. In life on earth, you need surface noise. That's what they say about turntable. Same goes for your PC. I am not even aware of my PC fan spinning now with this Summit Fi headphone on my head and the volume up at only 9am.
> 
> I've a ultra quiet PC fan btw.


 
  
 LOL When I want to talk about clean power and signal, you tell me I don't need these 
  


lukeap69 said:


> I believe it can play DSD with the firmware update.


 
  
 My DAC plays it out of the box, but it needs firmware upgrade to play DSD256. Can you point me to the reviews of the HDD player?


----------



## lukeap69

lord raven said:


> LOL When I want to talk about clean power and signal, you tell me I don't need these
> 
> 
> My DAC plays it out of the box, but it needs firmware upgrade to play DSD256. Can you point me to the reviews of the HDD player?




This one

http://www.head-fi.org/t/682517/review-soundaware-d100-pro-deluxe-edition-the-ultimate-source

I don't think I am allowed to post the other one...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Not a big 'Meat Loaf' fan, personally, but in case you are, just saw this:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/entertainment/meat-loaf-collapses-on-stage/

Hope he will be alright...


:rolleyes:


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is getting interesting, too:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/mary-poppins-introduced-in-led-zeppelin-stairway-to-heaven-trial-20160616

LOL


----------



## Oskari

decentlevi said:


> The review is on a Head-Fi competitor site that's strictly banned by moderators, so we're not advised to post the link or mention the name on Head-Fi. Anyone curious can ask for a PM from TomNC. The thread there is not indexed by Google yet, but you can find in on that audiophile forum not to be named that's F A B S in reverse




Wow, there are some a-holes 1st class on that site!


----------



## pctazhp

I highly recommend this post #11149 from Jason Stoddard of Schiit Audio regarding price and high end audio today: http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/11145
  
 Maybe it will remind some of us what an incredible bargain we discovered when we bought our Elise.


----------



## mordy

Found this seller of 7236 Type Tung Sol:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-Type-7236-Audio-Tubes-Lot-of-TEN-Metal-Base-3-Mica-All-MATCHED-/222147862332?hash=item33b90b5f3c:g:uHwAAOSwLnBXWgCW
  





  
 There are a number of pictures, but I cannot find a tube number that connects to 7236. Are these just IBM labeled 6080 tubes?
  
 Oskari?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Found this seller of 7236 Type Tung Sol:
> 
> …
> 
> ...




They look like TS 7236s to me, cf. http://www.head-fi.org/t/532663/tung-sol-7236-up-for-grabs-worth-the-buy-wa3-owner.

3213999 could be the IBM code for them.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> They look like TS 7236s to me, cf. http://www.head-fi.org/t/532663/tung-sol-7236-up-for-grabs-worth-the-buy-wa3-owner.
> 
> 3213999 could be the IBM code for them.


 

 Yup those are definitely 7236 with IBM labels. I sold a pair to @pctazhp that has a black bakelite base with the IBM labels.
  
 That link does provide some technical specs and good discussions for it. It's more closely aligned to 5998 and not the same as 6080. Tone wise, it's more neutral and exhibit 5998 characteristics, albeit leaner.


----------



## mordy

Does anybody know how the 7236 compares to the Bendix 6080WB?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Wow, there are some a-holes 1st class on that site!


 

 I'm trying to contain my laughter here.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yup those are definitely 7236 with IBM labels. I sold a pair to @pctazhp that has a black bakelite base with the IBM labels.
> 
> That link does provide some technical specs and good discussions for it. It's more closely aligned to 5998 and not the same as 6080. Tone wise, it's more neutral and exhibit 5998 characteristics, albeit leaner.


 
 And they are wonderful. Highly recommend.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> LOL When I want to talk about clean power and signal, you tell me I don't need these


 
  
 You should start at the source.


----------



## lukeap69

mordy said:


> Does anybody know how the 7236 compares to the Bendix 6080WB?


 
  
 I am interested to know too.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> I am interested to know too.


 

 Bendix 6080 are as rare as hens teeth now. It's easier to compare 7236 with GEC 6080.


----------



## mordy

Far side or funny side?
  





  




Wind Farm where a forest once stood.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I'm trying to contain my laughter here.





[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/wZnF4hfL6cU[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

Woo she can sing. I sat through the whole song.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Here are four hens teeth (items 2 and 3):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XBendix+6080.TRS0&_nkw=Bendix+6080&_sacat=0


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> Bendix 6080 are as rare as hens teeth now. It's easier to compare 7236 with GEC 6080.


 
  
 Right. Have you heard the Chatham 6080WB? Not sure if these are re-branded Bendix?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Here are four hens teeth (items 2 and 3):
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XBendix+6080.TRS0&_nkw=Bendix+6080&_sacat=0


 
 Items 1,2 and 3 but they are individual and in separate auction. 
  
 These Cetron 7236 came back though.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/7236-Cetron-NOS-Balance-6520-5998-Tube-421A-2399-6AS7G-Buy-it-Now/172240306744?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D69cfcbaad74e4c14b0f0e118955c02b5%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D172241681467


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Right. Have you heard the Chatham 6080WB? Not sure if these are re-branded Bendix?


 
 Not all Chatham 6080 are the same but yours looks like the coveted graphite plates.
  
 I've seen Tung Sol label too. There's a link on Bendix 6080wb. I'll dig it out.
  
 There you go. http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/3615#post_12634863


----------



## UntilThen

So Arnold if you have the 7236, you can tell us the difference.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> So Arnold if you have the 7236, you can tell us the difference.


 
  
 I was planning to buy the pair I linked earlier but decided to go for the Chatham 6080WB. I don't find much sense in getting the 7236 also unless they are a lot better than the Chatham. For my HD800 SD, I still prefer six-6BL7's. Quite a lot actually.


----------



## UntilThen

I have heard the HD800S so I know what you mean. Would certainly pair better with more neutral tones.


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> I have heard the HD800S so I know what you mean. Would certainly pair better with more neutral tones.


 
  
 The bottom slam and the bass is the best I have heard with my HD800 SD! No kidding... 
  
 My friend with HD650 came few days ago to audition my Darna with his HD650. His jaw dropped...
  
  
 And I ordered an HD650 the next day.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi there folks...am still around, but unfortunately can't devote the same amount of time keeping up with the Ferrari pace of this thread (which I'm glad continues to be leaving most others behind, lol!





...keep up the good work...).
  
 First - and most importantly - can I say how happy I am that @connieflyer is now back in the saddle after his sad loss, and how proud I am of the wonderful support and encouragement shown by you great bunch of guys here...this thread is indeed one of the best!!...(and what a contrast to another site I will expand on in a mo...).
  
 Second, my apologies to all those I haven't yet thanked for your kind words re. my great fortune in persuading FA to grant my never-thought-would-happen wish - for an "Elise"!
  
 And also a very warm welcome to all those who have recently received their own bundles of joy....not to mention my own joy at seeing how you are all in love with her already LOL. (The love affair becomes even more intense, I assure you!).
  
 Less enjoyable was my recent savage mauling by @Oskari's a-holes at the place @DecentLevi warned us about. My own fault, I know, but I simply had to defend our position regarding "excessive" (their words) tube rolling, not to mention Elise herself...I fully understand, and appreciate, the views of those who believe no-one should veer away from the tubes specifically configured for a particular amp. But to display such bigoted prejudice and venom towards those who are prepared to push the boundaries (within reason!) - especially when at their own risk - is just totally mind-boggling, to say the least. Disagreement is one thing - Heaven knows we (inevitably) have our own - but I was somewhat unprepared for such unbelievable attitudes. However, that's by the by...such ignorance is easy to shrug off...But no-one in their right mind joins in such dubious company - 'tis a place to watch from the outside only (and which I shall be doing, simply to see how things progress there with regard to Elise...).
  
 But actually, the experience has prompted me to just mention some points covered in the past - especially for those fairly new to Elisedom :
  
 Firstly, although I personally am in favour of pushing boundaries with regard to tube rolling, the more we enter "Frankenstein" territory, the more we become ridiculed by many others (not all!) in the hi-fi World - not just jokers!...this is a fact, whether we choose to ignore it or not...or don't care. This, however, is everyone's freedom of choice of course.
  
 Secondly - and as has been mentioned here several times recently - results from our unconventional tube experiments can vary wildly between people...and sometimes for no obvious reason at all. But usually, such variations are purely down to the differences in individual systems and/or environment...probably far more so than simple preference. The final performance of _any_ tube is thus determined by a host of other factors, not just the particular amp in question. And so it is always a gamble as to how each of us will find a tube performing, no matter _what_ others have found. This is something we must all be prepared to accept when joining in the rolling "madness"...for good or bad. Therefore, when/if disappointment hits us, the only reasonable, meaningful statement can be related to what our own particular system - preferably listed a,b,c,d,e, etc. - or our own particular ears, deliver. Each experience is of necessity unique (and valid _*for the individual*_), but _*cannot*_ in all honesty then be made into a broader, blanket statement concerning the tube _itself_. This fact is sometimes lost sight of all too easily in the "passion" of our hobby. We need to be constantly on our guard...if only for the sake of continued harmony, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Sorry for any indigestion caused...y'all should now get back to enjoying this wonderful amp to the full (not that you need any encouraging, I'm sure!!).
  
 CHEERS to you all...and HAPPY LISTENING!
 CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Having been on that site in the past, I know what you mean, they are extremely narrow minded. I had the audacity to question one of the head guru's on something I was very well versed in, and he and fellow members were outraged that I would question the guru's fact's, listened to their (crap) for a few weeks with out replying and then got back on with facts with links from expert sites, silence for a few days and then they gathered around their guru, and admonished me for linking sites and opionions  not in accord with the "accepted" info. Sometimes you can lead a horse(es asses) to water but better to leave them somewhere to die of thirst. Needless to say I am not overly welcome. I have this forum don't need the other.  This thread in particular, is very friendly and informative, when you figure the low number of Elise's out there, this thread flies.  Thanks to all. Don


----------



## mordy

Hi hypnos1 and welcome back!
  
 I agree with all the kind words of yours with one exception: IMHO some of the results using unconventional set-ups can be duplicated by others if you choose to try it.


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome back @hypnos1 . As soon as I have my breakfast I will join in the chorus.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello h1..

Welcome back, sir.

Sorry for your tiptoe through viper-land. The use of vulgar language must make those poor lads feel important. 

Funny to me, that we never had the riff's in LD MK IV land. If someone tried a tube and liked, but others didn't - it was okay to state your opinion, and move on. No endless defending, nor innuendos, were thrown about. 

Those were the days


----------



## JK-47

@hypnos1
  
 Would you like some cheese with your whine?


----------



## connieflyer

nice to see you back don't stay away so long takes a long time to catch up!


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 absolutely agree with what you say. I'd like to point out 2 things.
  
 One, that said reviewer should not be praising Elise and at the same time make a mockery of the makers race. That's pathetic. 
  
 Two, as a member of the trade, he should know better than to expose Elise innards with a photo, with plain disregards for Feliks Audio creative works.


----------



## Lord Raven

Super excited to read couple of recent 1st class posts  UT these were my exact points, I am sure those guys are trying to replicate Elise, and soon we will see the copies of it.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Super excited to read couple of recent 1st class posts  UT these were my exact points, I am sure those guys are trying to replicate Elise, and soon we will see the copies of it.


 
  
 /facepalm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You should get your T1 quick and do a write up here quick, to get us back on track.


----------



## JazzVinyl

One from the Way Back machine....1977:



[VIDEO]https://youtube.com/watch?v=hhccIfevjCU [/VIDEO]



(( you should hear the vinyl ))


----------



## UntilThen

Good evening everyone it's Sat night I hope you're spinning some nice tunes.
  
@richard89  how's day 2 with Elise?


----------



## martinrajdl

Hi guys! Considering getting Valhalla 2, but I got quite a few recommendations on Feliks Audio, namely Espressivo and Elise. I've searched the thread and I haven't really seen anyone compare the two(three). Is anyone here who can comment on Valhalla 2 vs Elise ?


----------



## UntilThen

martinrajdl said:


> Hi guys! Considering getting Valhalla 2, but I got quite a few recommendations on Feliks Audio, namely Espressivo and Elise. I've searched the thread and I haven't really seen anyone compare the two(three). Is anyone here who can comment on Valhalla 2 vs Elise ?


 

 Gday Martin, lovely avatar.
  
 Here's @pctazhp comparison on Valhalla 2 vs Elise. post #8804
  
 There are a few who can tell you more about the 2 plus @HOWIE13 will tell you more about Elise vs Expressivo. He has both.
  
 Quick answer? Just get Elise.
  
 You're using HD600? Perfect !


----------



## UntilThen

Ok here's our latest Elise owner impressions yesterday. post #11852 
  
 ... and he's using HD650


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello h1..
> 
> Welcome back, sir.
> 
> ...


 
 Similarily in Ember's thread- disagreements sometimes, but never venomous language.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Gday Martin, lovely avatar.
> 
> Here's @pctazhp comparison on Valhalla 2 vs Elise. post #8804
> 
> ...


 
 One of these days I'll get round to comparing Expressivo and Elise but I've only had Expressivo for a few weeks and Elise for a few days. Both still burning in as I only listen for an hour or two a day.
 Expressivo is a great amp for it's price. Tube rolling of power tubes is limited though. On the other hand there is plenty of choice for the 6DJ8 drivers. Expressivo always sounds refined and in control. Very linear sounding. 
 Elise is clearly in a different league- but it's double the price. Valhalla 2 I don't know and it's just a bit more expensive than Expressivo but that would be your comparison amplifier rather than Elise, at that price point.
  
 If price doesn't matter Elise is your girl.
  
 PS. Mainly using K702 at present but have listened for short periods with my HD650 and sounds excellent too.


----------



## DecentLevi

I've tried the Valhalla and it made a modest impression on me but never tempted me to buy it, whereas the Elise is something you always remember and even miss it for more than 1/2 day. 
  
 VALHALLA (Fiat)

  
 ELISE (Jaguar)


----------



## martinrajdl

untilthen said:


> Gday Martin, lovely avatar.
> 
> Here's @pctazhp comparison on Valhalla 2 vs Elise. post #8804
> 
> ...


 


howie13 said:


> One of these days I'll get round to comparing Expressivo and Elise but I've only had Expressivo for a few weeks and Elise for a few days. Both still burning in as I only listen for an hour or two a day.
> Expressivo is a great amp for it's price. Tube rolling of power tubes is limited though. On the other hand there is plenty of choice for the 6DJ8 drivers. Expressivo always sounds refined and in control. Very linear sounding.
> Elise is clearly in a different league- but it's double the price. Valhalla 2 I don't know and it's just a bit more expensive than Expressivo but that would be your comparison amplifier rather than Elise, at that price point.
> 
> ...


 
 Many thanks to you @UntilThen and @HOWIE13 for the recommendations. I truly believe that Elise is considerably better than the Valhalla 2 and probably both Elise and Espressivo are both better deal than the Val2 (considering Val2 is about 150$ more expensive than Espressivo, at least where I live - customs etc. and only about 200$ cheaper than Elise), but after reading about it a bit, I think I will still go with Valhalla since it is available in store here in the Czech Republic and If I absolutely hated it, I could probably return.
 Money also matters quite a bit, and even though the price difference isn't "that" much, I will probably rather spend it on a new DAC, because that will definitely be a bottleneck no matter what amp I get. The convenience factor with some cash saved is slightly more important to me right now than some benefits in SQ, but I really hope I will eventually get a chance to listen to some Feliks Audio equipment down the road. Thanks again for the input  
  
@DecentLevi - Oh man, if Elise shipped with Miranda Kerr (the model), I would so not hesitate


----------



## aqsw

martinrajdl said:


> Many thanks to you @UntilThen
> and @HOWIE13
> for the recommendations. I truly believe that Elise is considerably better than the Valhalla 2 and probably both Elise and Espressivo are both better deal than the Val2 (considering Val2 is about 150$ more expensive than Espressivo, at least where I live - customs etc. and only about 200$ cheaper than Elise), but after reading about it a bit, I think I will still go with Valhalla since it is available in store here in the Czech Republic and If I absolutely hated it, I could probably return.
> Money also matters quite a bit, and even though the price difference isn't "that" much, I will probably rather spend it on a new DAC, because that will definitely be a bottleneck no matter what amp I get. The convenience factor with some cash saved is slightly more important to me right now than some benefits in SQ, but I really hope I will eventually get a chance to listen to some Feliks Audio equipment down the road. Thanks again for the input
> ...




Have fun with the Fiat. I'm going to hop in my Jaguar and go for a ride.


----------



## Oskari

decentlevi said:


>




That is a Polski Fiat, though, quite a sympathetic way of transporting one and one's Elise.


----------



## lukeap69

As long as it has Hello Kitty...


----------



## UntilThen

Nooooo Martin not the Fiat.....


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi hypnos1 and welcome back!
> 
> I agree with all the kind words of yours with one exception:* IMHO some of the results using unconventional set-ups can be duplicated by others if you choose to try it.*


 
  
 Hi mordy...thanks for the welcome. Despite other constraints, I simply can't leave this great bunch of guys for too long...nor miss out on everyone's joy as they recieve their own mini-wonders lol! So am putting in an order for a 48hr day...trouble is that would most certainly finish me off for good (but then y'all would be left in peace...can't have that!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Anyway, mon ami, I certainly agree with your statement...but don't think I've ever categorically stated otherwise - sorry if I gave that impression. _*Similar*_ results can surely be had...but the truth remains that unless _*every*_ element in a system/environment is *precisely* the same (which is impossible, of course!), there must therefore be variations - small or great - in the final resulting performance.
  
 I have - as you well know! - made my own position clear on uber "excessive" moves away from conventional tube set-up, but each is obviously free to make his own choices. The pioneering spirit should indeed continue amongst brave souls.
 My brief sojourn into Hell did remind me though (in no uncertain terms LOL!!) of factors touched on previously, and which do indeed have a certain validity...ie. that there IS always a degree of risk when trying tubes that are not as per original configuration for a specific unit. The fact that we stay within _*heater*_ power supply requirements is only *part* of the picture - there are many other aspects to circuit design that can create _possible_ problems further down the line when straying from the amp's particular operating points. These are risks that we all take, of course, as I mentioned in my last post. I count myself fortunate that so far, my Elise exhibits no untoward signs...but I fully realise that further time still _might_ just produce some kind of objection from her. I hope that _if_ anything should transpire, it would probably be a relatively cheap job to put right. It would be irresponsible of me not to point out such _worst-case_ scenarios, however. Luckily, it would certainly appear that our Elises are incredibly flexible with regard to what we subject them to, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so good luck to you all!
  


jk-47 said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> Would you like some cheese with your whine?


 
  
 Hi JK-47.
  
 Funny(?) you should say that...could just be down to the half-bottle of rather nice Cabernet/Merlot I washed my Vintage Cheddar down with earlier! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But actually, I thought I was rather restrained, all things considered!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

martinrajdl said:


> Hi guys! Considering getting Valhalla 2, but I got quite a few recommendations on Feliks Audio, namely Espressivo and Elise. I've searched the thread and I haven't really seen anyone compare the two(three). Is anyone here who can comment on Valhalla 2 vs Elise ?


 
@UntilThen has pointed you to my comparison of the two amps and everything I said still stands. But really there is no comparison. Elise is in a totally different league. I highly recommend the Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1. Great to see you back here)) Just want to say I agree with and support all you said. You have generated a lot of thoughts and pearls of wisdom in my brain. But nothing you haven't already said and much better than I could have written.


----------



## martinrajdl

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen has pointed you to my comparison of the two amps and everything I said still stands. But really there is no comparison. Elise is in a totally different league. I highly recommend the Elise.


 

 Damn it! Really not making it easy


----------



## pctazhp

martinrajdl said:


> Damn it! Really not making it easy


 
 The Valhalla 2 is a good amp. There are a lot of happy owners. But it just doesn't rise to the level of Elise. The differences are not subtle. At the risk of a little overstatement, by comparison to the Elise the V2 is boring and un-involving. Elise brings recordings alive in a way the V2 simply can't. I certainly appreciate the issue of budget. But for me, the Elise is a keeper. I don't have to think about "upgrading" it, and I can't see me doing that for a very long time, if ever. 
  
 Serial "upgrading" is where a lot of us have unnecessarily spent a lot of money. For me, in the long run, I believe that my purchase of the Elise has saved me a lot of money down the road. It is very good with its stock tubes. If you do decide to buy it, my advice is to go very slow on tube rolling and feel free to ask here for advice on any tubes you may consider trying down the road. You will get a lot of support and help here.
  
 But good luck with whatever you decide. I have a lot of respect for Schiit Audio and they offer true value. But so does Feliks Audio with its Elise. V2 in my opinion is not a real "end game". Elise is.


----------



## pctazhp

Right now I'm listening with Sylvania 6SN7GTBs (green label) as drivers and and the TS7236s I bought from @UntilThen for power. With my HD800S it is the proverbial "match made in heaven". Crisp and clear, yet at the same time highly involving and musical. These are not "big buck" tubes, but (continuing the cliches) certainly "bring home the bacon" - or the Jaguar if you prefer cars to food


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...thanks for the welcome. Despite other constraints, I simply can't leave this great bunch of guys for too long...nor miss out on everyone's joy as they recieve their own mini-wonders lol! So am putting in an order for a 48hr day...trouble is that would most certainly finish me off for good (but then y'all would be left in peace...can't have that!! :wink_face: ).
> 
> Anyway, mon ami, I certainly agree with your statement...but don't think I've ever categorically stated otherwise - sorry if I gave that impression. _*Similar*_ results can surely be had...but the truth remains that unless _*every*_ element in a system/environment is *precisely* the same (which is impossible, of course!), there must therefore be variations - small or great - in the final resulting performance.
> 
> ...




Hello @hypnos1

Why is the heater limitation such a big deal? If you want to heat tubes beyond the limitation of the transformer in the Ellse and do so, externally...that poses zero problems.

I had a cathode short across to a plate (in a tube being heated internally) and indeed a resistor opened. This had nothing to do with external heat, and could happen to anyone, at anytime.

How the heck did we get to this business of "better not heat, externally?

During your excursion @hypnos1, they think your strapped pentode is a big scary 'no no' deal, for magical reasons un-specified.

If one wants to heat multiple tubes externally, and enjoys the results...who cares? Heck, heating the 4 specified tubes externally is beneficial, in keeping heat away from the internals.

How did external heat get to be such a big dividing line?

Do we all realize that heating externally, ONLY sends 6.3 volts across the heaters?

The cathodes in Elise have 190volts of DC, and the plates have 240volts of DC both voltages still accomplished via the internal transformer/DC power supply, and both are supplied, at a very very tiny, current level.

Do people think externally heating multiple tubes, automatically blows up your amp?

It does not.

Lets don't give people the wrong idea, there is enough "spooky magic" associated with electricity, as it is.


Cheers.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello @hypnos1
> 
> Why is the heater limitation such a big deal? If you want to heat tubes beyond the limitation of the transformer in the Ellse and do so, externally...that poses zero problems.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey JV...you obviously didn't read my post very carefully, I'm afraid. Please don't resume your provocation tactics....
  
 I made no mention whatsoever about any "problems" associated with external heater power supply. I refer to the well-known fact that substituting tubes with different specifications to those specifically configured for in any particular amp WILL alter operating points, and can _possibly_ have detrimental effects within the circuitry, if not the tubes themselves. This is not "spooky magic"...it is FACT!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hey JV...you obviously didn't read my post very carefully, I'm afraid. Please don't resume your provocation tactics....
> 
> I made no mention whatsoever about any "problems" associated with external heater power supply. I refer to the well-known fact that substituting tubes with different specifications to those specifically configured for in any particular amp WILL alter operating points, and can _possibly_ have detrimental effects within the circuitry, if not the tubes themselves. This is not "spooky magic"...it is FACT!




Sorry @hypnos1, when you bolded the *stay within heater requirements*, it seemed to insinuate there was a problem if you ventured beyond.

In your trip abroad, they insinuated "spooky magic" occurred in the strapped pentode.

Please my read my posts, more carefully, as well.

Cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

martinrajdl said:


> Damn it! Really not making it easy


 
  
 Hi martinrajdl...and welcome to you.
  
 Sorry for adding to your dilemna, but you mentioned upgrading your DAC - this is where Elise would reward you BIG time...she scales extremely well in response to improvements upstream or down...so think of it as wise investment for the future, funds permitting.
  
 Re. the DAC, I know this may not be relevant for you just at the moment, but many here will attest to the glories of higher-end units. I personally (as @aqsw has also found with his even better tube DAC) ) continue to be amazed at the leap in performance brought by my new tube DAC (a £600 unit over my £800 Audiolab 8200CD's also-Sabre-clad DAC). The sound now coming from my EL3N/GEC CV2523 (6AS7G variant) combo and Beyer T1s is truly wonderful...and way beyond what I ever thought possible from such a modestly priced amp. As further confirmation of said scaling ability, changing the DAC's stock ECC85 tubes for near top of the rung Tesla E88CCs (gold grid and gold grid posts) from my LittleDot days took things up yet another notch.
  
 And so, perhaps a few hints to family and friends come birthday/Christmas/whatever might just be in order...GOOD LUCK!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...and sorry again, lol!...


----------



## UntilThen

Couldn't agree with you more @hypnos1 . Elise with a capable DAC and headphone like HD800 and T1 is pretty much all you need for a top end setup. No fancy multi power tubes needed and external power supplies for that matter.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Sorry @hypnos1, when you bolded the *stay within heater requirements*, it seemed to insinuate there was a problem if you ventured beyond.
> 
> In your trip abroad, they insinuated "spooky magic" occurred in the strapped pentode.
> 
> ...


 
 JV:  As I think you know, I personally am not opposed to the idea of external hearing. I own Mrs. X's 6X adapter for the Elise and may try it sometime when I have more time than I do right now. But in all fairness, the last line in your post where you had discussed external heating in response to something @hypnos1 clearly had not said, certainly left in my mind the impression that comment was directed at H1 and not just the people on the other thread. 
  
 And his reference to heater requirements of the Elise was pretty clearly a reference to the criteria that is often cited on this thread of staying within FA's recommendation of 6.8 amps maximum, and he was just saying there may be other considerations for tube rolling in the Elise than just the total amp limitation for non-external heating.
  
 In my opinion, tit-for-tat contributes nothing to reasonable discourse.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello all...

My recent post that @hypnos1 thought was a cut on him, was not intended
to be a cut, or any kind of slight on him, in any way.

I should have posted without quoting him:

"My thoughts on External Heating"

Instead of "How did this get to be such a dividing line?"

I am sorry @hypnos1 read it as some sort put down.

It was not intended that way.


Cheers to all the Lucky Ones!


----------



## Suuup

I picked up a package today. 
  

  
 The content of the package is a whole lot more interesting though!

  
 A single Tung-Sol 6336. With a 5A current draw, I can only run one of them without using external heating. I'm not exactly sure how I'll do it yet. One option is to make an adapter that splits up the tube into two singly-triodes. I believe hpamdr did something like that for the 6AS7? Another idea is to open up the Elise and simply rewire her innards and split it up from the inside. I'm not exactly sure how she's wired right now. Either each channel has it's own tube or they share both tubes, using one triode from each. If they each have their own, I might rewire them to share the tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @Suuup...yes indeed, all that needs to be said about external heating has already been said, lol...
  
 And yes, we seem to have been lucky so far that Elise has been able to take our 'punishment'...with the added benefit of clear improvements in sound delivery (to our own individual ears/tastes at least!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







). But having said that, it is also clear that superlative results can be had from stock config'n tubes...this amp can indeed appeal to ALL tastes/preferences/persuasions/pockets...LONG LIVE ELISE!!...and HAPPY LISTENING! everyone...


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @Suuup...yes indeed, all that needs to be said about external heating has already been said, lol...
> 
> And yes, we seem to have been lucky so far that Elise has been able to take our 'punishment'...with the added benefit of clear improvements in sound delivery (to our own individual ears/tastes at least!!
> 
> ...


 
 Agree so much with this.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> I picked up a package today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 YIKES Suuup...bang goes your warranty, I fear lol!!...you're a braver man than I (this is apparently one animal of a tube)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## pctazhp

Maybe there will be "Peace in the Valley" after all)))


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @Suuup
> ...yes indeed, all that needs to be said about external heating has already been said, lol...
> 
> And yes, we seem to have been lucky so far that Elise has been able to take our 'punishment'...with the added benefit of clear improvements in sound delivery (to our own individual ears/tastes at least!! :wink_face: :bigsmile_face: ). But having said that, it is also clear that superlative results can be had from stock config'n tubes...this amp can indeed appeal to ALL tastes/preferences/persuasions/pockets...LONG LIVE ELISE!!...and HAPPY LISTENING! everyone...




It's true, you can stay eith stock specified tubes, and be perfectly pleased.

She's a fun and great sounding machine 

Cheers to _ever increasing number_ of *LUCKY ONES*!!!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> It's true, you can stay eith stock specified tubes, and be perfectly pleased.
> 
> She's a fun and great sounding machine
> 
> Cheers to _ever increasing number_ of *LUCKY ONES*!!!


 
  
 Indeed JV...let's just hope Feliks-Audio can keep up with the orders, lol!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Indeed JV...let's just hope Feliks-Audio can keep up with the orders, lol!!




Must be a happy toil for them...making such a universally pleasing product...


----------



## connieflyer

finally got everything moved in to the great room, with the main system. Hooked the computer out to the dac to Elise to Harman-Kardon 7200 to PSB speakers  and now can select sound out from computer, or Elise or Tivo and having the computer hooked up to the 60" Viera Panasonic plasma is a gas, just tried the flight simulator, was not expecting the resolution to be hd.  Have also found that using my laptop as a source to dac, elise out is not as good as my main computer, same JRiver, same HD Flac file but the main computer (home built of course) is much better.  Don't know why it would be but my ears tell me what I need to hear..  Hope it is just the newness of the experience, but have not used headphones since the preouts work.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> finally got everything moved in to the great room, with the main system. Hooked the computer out to the dac to Elise to Harman-Kardon 7200 to PSB speakers  and now can select sound out from computer, or Elise or Tivo and having the computer hooked up to the 60" Viera Panasonic plasma is a gas, just tried the flight simulator, was not expecting the resolution to be hd.  Have also found that using my laptop as a source to dac, elise out is not as good as my main computer, same JRiver, same HD Flac file but the main computer (home built of course) is much better.  Don't know why it would be but my ears tell me what I need to hear..  Hope it is just the newness of the experience, but have not used headphones since the preouts work.


 
  
 Sounds GREAT CF...enjoy!
  
 And it does indeed appear that the source to DAC is also very important, and one perhaps overlooked by some in the quest for improved sound?
  
 HAPPY LISTENING!
 CJ


----------



## Lord Raven

T1 Gen coming tomorrow, God willing. And still negotiating a deal on some uber expensive power tubes, you guessed it  Wish me luck guys!!!


----------



## lukeap69

lord raven said:


> T1 Gen coming tomorrow, God willing. And still negotiating a deal on some uber expensive power tubes, you guessed it  Wish me luck guys!!!


 
  
 GEC 6AS7?
  
 Yeah, negotiate more please... 
  
 Best of luck!!!
  
 By the way, my Soundaware D100Pro arrived today. One of the best addition to my rig. The improvement over my PC/Mac is not subtle. No way I am going back!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

lukeap69 said:


> By the way, my Soundaware D100Pro arrived today. One of the best addition to my rig. The improvement over my PC/Mac is not subtle. No way I am going back!!!
> 
> :basshead:




Soundaware D100Pro = a beautiful bit of kit!

Enjoy!


----------



## lukeap69

jazzvinyl said:


> Soundaware D100Pro = a beautiful bit of kit!
> 
> Enjoy!


 
  
 Thank you JV. I do not have space for vinyl so i went for something better than PC/Mac. And I surely appreciate the difference.
  
 (PS - trying to lure LR to join the darkside...)


----------



## martinrajdl

pctazhp said:


> The Valhalla 2 is a good amp. There are a lot of happy owners. But it just doesn't rise to the level of Elise. The differences are not subtle. At the risk of a little overstatement, by comparison to the Elise the V2 is boring and un-involving. Elise brings recordings alive in a way the V2 simply can't. I certainly appreciate the issue of budget. But for me, the Elise is a keeper. I don't have to think about "upgrading" it, and I can't see me doing that for a very long time, if ever.
> 
> Serial "upgrading" is where a lot of us have unnecessarily spent a lot of money. For me, in the long run, I believe that my purchase of the Elise has saved me a lot of money down the road. It is very good with its stock tubes. If you do decide to buy it, my advice is to go very slow on tube rolling and feel free to ask here for advice on any tubes you may consider trying down the road. You will get a lot of support and help here.
> 
> But good luck with whatever you decide. I have a lot of respect for Schiit Audio and they offer true value. But so does Feliks Audio with its Elise. V2 in my opinion is not a real "end game". Elise is.


 

 ​Well this just might be the biggest selling point on Elise, this and the fact that if something broke, sending it back to Poland would be really easy. You guys really made me reconsider, I will give it some more thought and see. Thanks a lot for the input.


----------



## martinrajdl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi martinrajdl...and welcome to you.
> 
> Sorry for adding to your dilemna, but you mentioned upgrading your DAC - this is where Elise would reward you BIG time...she scales extremely well in response to improvements upstream or down...so think of it as wise investment for the future, funds permitting.
> 
> ...


 
 Hello hypnos1, thanks for welcoming me. I have seen your youtube video and I came to understanding that you are quite and important person in this thread 
 You really did not help with my dilemma, and you guys being so informative and fond of the Elise is really pushing me towards getting it. However, you really did just confuse the hell out of me with tube DAC, since I have no idea what that means. Anyway, I am heavily considering getting Elise. I will see what can I do.
 I will also probably email Feliks Audio on Monday regarding availability .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... damn
  
  
 Also sorry for the double post, I have no idea how to quote two posts from different pages.


----------



## richdytch

lord raven said:


> T1 Gen coming tomorrow, God willing. And still negotiating a deal on some uber expensive power tubes, you guessed it  Wish me luck guys!!!




Woop, looking forward to hearing how those go


----------



## connieflyer

you would think digital signal would be the same, but I noticed it after hooking up as preamp.  Went back to phones and thought, yep, these are better but why?  Main system is much better all around, but when I hooked up main computer,  noticed big difference.  Almost vinyl like (not really, that was just to get @UntilThen,interest peaked and try to get him to spend more money)  The PSAudio dac was much better than my Emotiva, now  this with difference that is easy to see, from  source, oh good grief, don't tell me I have to buy something else?  Well maybe you could.  Glad you agree on the difference in source,was hoping I wasn't imagining it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Elise with Ken-Rad VT231's driving, has bass as deep as the ocean on this song...



[VIDEO] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HHptSXg9FAE [/VIDEO]


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> T1 Gen coming tomorrow, God willing. And still negotiating a deal on some uber expensive power tubes, you guessed it  Wish me luck guys!!!


 
  
 So, LR...you might well soon be keeping me company?...AT LONG LAST!!!...(have been patiently waiting, lol!). Fingers and toes crossed...GOOD LUCK!
  


connieflyer said:


> you would think digital signal would be the same, but I noticed it after hooking up as preamp.  Went back to phones and thought, yep, these are better but why?  Main system is much better all around, but when I hooked up main computer,  noticed big difference.  Almost vinyl like (not really, that was just to get @UntilThen,interest peaked and try to get him to spend more money)  The PSAudio dac was much better than my Emotiva, now  this with difference that is easy to see, from  source, oh good grief, don't tell me I have to buy something else?  Well maybe you could.  Glad you agree on the difference in source,was hoping I wasn't imagining it.


 
  
 No imagining, CF...even a firmware upgrade to my Oppo BDP103 made a noticeable improvement in the already excellent media player's performance, viz its digital out to my then Audiolab's DAC...couldn't believe it possible lol!
  
 So it looks like your wallet cannot rest easy just yet, I fear!...CHEERS!!...CJ


----------



## aqsw

martinrajdl said:


> Hello hypnos1, thanks for welcoming me. I have seen your youtube video and I came to understanding that you are quite and important person in this thread
> You really did not help with my dilemma, and you guys being so informative and fond of the Elise is really pushing me towards getting it. *How ever, you really did just confuse the hell out of me with tube DAC, since I have no idea what that means. *Anyway, I am heavily considering getting Elise. I will see what can I do.
> I will also probably email Feliks Audio on Monday regarding availability .... :confused_face(1): ... damn
> 
> ...




Tube dac and Elise[ATTACHMENT=2825]ATT_1457488295927_28753.jpeg (2,334k. jpeg file)[/ATTACHMENT]


----------



## pctazhp

Does anyone know if this can be safely used in the Elise??? I just ordered a matched pair from a reliable source in Nigeria along with making my bank account available for an immediate deposit of $10M Dollars USD.


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> Does anyone know if this can be safely used in the Elise??? I just ordered a matched pair from a reliable source in Nigeria along with making my bank account available for an immediate deposit of $10M Dollars USD.


 
 LOL, I think you can...


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> LOL, I think you can...


 
 Back to earth, I really hope you will get the GECs. You'll keep this thread at the top of the Hot List reporting on the T1s AND the GECs. My hands are starting to hurt with my fingers so tightly crossed ))))


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes, I hope @Lord Raven gets the GEC's too.

Did LR ever do 2x 6BL7's? 

If so...he would be the first to compare the luxurious GEC's to the lowly (priced) 6BL7's...


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, I hope @Lord Raven gets the GEC's too.
> 
> Did LR ever do 2x 6BL7's?
> 
> If so...he would be the first to compare the luxurious GEC's to the lowly (priced) 6BL7's...


 
 I'm not sure if he ever did, but it is becoming very obvious we need a qualified person with both the GECs and 6X6BL7s to compare and report. Not seeing any such qualified person on the horizon with both, I'm willing to volunteer as a non-qualified person. I have the 6X adapter and 6 6BL7s, and I'm willing to buy the transformer. But I will need the thread members to create a fund to buy me a pair of the GECs. I'm such a wonderful and deserving human being, I'm sure that will be easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Either that, or @UntilThen will have to suspend his vinyl purchases for a few days and buy me a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 OMG, it is 109 F degrees here right now (116 expected tomorrow) and there is no way I'm going outside. Is it obvious I have far too much time on my hands today???


----------



## Suuup

I talked to a few guys (one of whom is an electrical engineer) about external heating. They admitted that there is nothing wrong with external heating -- AT ALL. If someone doesn't want to do external heating, that's totally fine with me. It does have some minor inconvenience. I don't really think there's much more discussion to be had about external heating. 
  
 It IS true, that what we do here is VERY frowned upon, and for good reason. We're not operating the tubes (EL3N, 6N7G, ECC31, C3g.....) at optimal values. That is a fact. I don't care if the tubes aren't at optimal values. I only care about how I perceive the sound. If I like the sound of a tube in my system, I don't really care about whether or not it's operating at optimal values. Sure, it might burn out the tube a whole lot faster, but that's what it is. I'll just have to buy new tubes more frequently. 
 It IS also true, that running tubes at non-optimal values CAN break the Elise. This HAS NOT happened to me yet though, and I've rolled _a ton_ of different tubes now. 
  
 Not just running different tubes of the same kind, but actually running entirely different kinds of tubes, is also the reason why the change between different tubes is so apparent. We're not just substituting a 6SN7 with another 6SN7. 
  
 EDIT: Mods keep changing my post..


----------



## Suuup

hypnos1 said:


> YIKES Suuup...bang goes your warranty, I fear lol!!...you're a braver man than I (this is apparently one animal of a tube)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks H1. I figure my warranty is long gone already. Also, if something was to break, I believe I can most likely fix it myself. Hopefully....


----------



## connieflyer

DL wanted pictures, mimd you cable runs are not done and final position of pc will be in corneron angle to match sub on other side, have to orfer longer hdmi and usb cables, then all will be well until next upgrade.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> DL wanted pictures, mimd you cable runs are not done and final position of pc will be in corneron angle to match sub on other side, have to orfer longer hdmi and usb cables, then all will be well until next upgrade.


 
 Looks nice and cosy. That's a giant monitor. 
  
 I see you have the 6xEL3N running again. Enjoy.


----------



## connieflyer

60 inch plasma ,running with Asus Nvidia 970 video caed really looks superb, even using a flight simulator maxed out works like a charm.  Been running 6 pack for about 50 hours now, thought I heard a slight difference then realized it was the electric meter spinning faster!


----------



## connieflyer

Hoping Feliks get their headphone stands soon, hoping for more than just Oak but will take it


----------



## Lord Raven

pctazhp said:


> I'm not sure if he ever did, but it is becoming very obvious we need a qualified person with both the GECs and 6X6BL7s to compare and report. Not seeing any such qualified person on the horizon with both, I'm willing to volunteer as a non-qualified person. I have the 6X adapter and 6 6BL7s, and I'm willing to buy the transformer. But I will need the thread members to create a fund to buy me a pair of the GECs. I'm such a wonderful and deserving human being, I'm sure that will be easy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ok I give up my tubes for pctazhp, he is most deserving guy here.. LOL


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> 60 inch plasma ,running with Asus Nvidia 970 video caed really looks superb, even using a flight simulator maxed out works like a charm.  Been running 6 pack for about 50 hours now, thought I heard a slight difference then realized it was the electric meter spinning faster!


 
 The PS Audio looks perfect as a base for Elise.
  
 Nvidia 970 is a very good graphics card. With that PC case, you look like a professional gamer.


----------



## UntilThen

lord raven said:


> Ok I give up my tubes for pctazhp, he is most deserving guy here.. LOL


 
 I'll second him being the most deserving guy. Make sure the GE has the C in it.


----------



## Suuup

I also have a bid up on some GECs. Don't know if I'll win yet, but hopefully!


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I also have a bid up on some GECs. Don't know if I'll win yet, but hopefully!


 
  
 You are blowing my cover  LOL Good luck!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> You are blowing my cover  LOL Good luck!


 
 Sure hope we're not trying to buy the same GECs.


----------



## Lord Raven

I know your tactics  There were not many reviews but if I don't win the GEC deal, I will jump on this D100Pro model and get rid of PC from my chain 
  
 Tell me more about it hehe
  
 Quote:


lukeap69 said:


> GEC 6AS7?
> 
> Yeah, negotiate more please...
> 
> ...


 
  
  


lukeap69 said:


> Thank you JV. I do not have space for vinyl so i went for something better than PC/Mac. And I surely appreciate the difference.
> 
> (PS - trying to lure LR to join the darkside...)


 
  
 Thanks Rich, if I get an extra pair, I will definitely let you know 
  


richdytch said:


> Woop, looking forward to hearing how those go


----------



## pctazhp

I'm going to try to make one serious contribution to the thread today. Unwilling to risk frost bite by stepping outside (ok, I never can be totally serious!!!) I've spent the afternoon listening to some of my favorite albums on Tidal with my with Sylvania 6SN7GTBs (green label) as drivers and and TS7236s for power (see for example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-7236-1965-08-DATE-CODES-5998-421A-TUBE-FOR-WOO-AUDIO-/182147236096?hash=item2a68d24100:g:2hQAAOSw-QBXPcv7). I have been listening most carefully to two of my favorite albums, John Stewart-Phoenix Concerts Live and Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits - both of which have strong ties to Arizona. John Stewart was one of the early singers with The Kingston Trio and recorded The Phoenix Concerts live at Phoenix Symphony Hall in 1974. 
  
 In the late 70s, I had the pleasure of spending an evening with Stevie Nick's father, Jess Nick, both of whom were from Arizona. After retiring in 1974 as President of Armour-Dial and Vice President of Greyhound, Jess became owner of Compton Terrace - a famous Phoenix outdoor concert venue where I saw among other groups, the Eagles. He was also very involved in Stevie's career (and that of her brother, Christopher).
  
 Anyway, because I was a big fan of both The Kingston Trio and Fleetwood Mac, these two albums have always been at the top of my favorites and I am very familiar with both. What I want to say that is pertinent to this thread is that with modestly priced tubes in my Elise, I just can't hear anything that I feel I'm missing in either album. Everything is crystal clear, musical and emotionally involving. I was particularly struck with the delicacy and femininity of Stevie's voice in Rhiannon and the haunting drums and chants in Tusk are palpable. "California Bloodlines" in Stewart's album has always brought goosebumps and they were there in spades today. And "Never Goin Back to Nashville" simply rocks.
  
 Of course, everyone is free to experiment with whatever tubes they want, and I have certainly done more than my share of rolling. But I am totally convinced that one does not need to spend a lot of money on tubes for the Elise to experience a true top-tier amp.
  
 Would the GECs take it to an entirely different level? Hopefully some day I will find out- @Lord Raven don't forget the "C" ))) But neither my 5998s or 6520s embarrass the 7236s. Are there better drivers than the Sylvanias? Sure, but none I've found that I would give an arm and a leg for to replace either my Sylvanias or my TS6SN7-GTBs. 
  
 The EL3Ns also remain at the top of my list as preferred drivers and in quad-configuration as power tubes. But even with the required adapters they are not outrageously expensive.
  
 And of course there is also the choice of 6X6BL7s for power, but that requires external power and for now I'm just commenting on the Elise running without external power


----------



## DecentLevi

wreckgar7 said:


> Hi guys, i`ve been following this thread while waiting for my Elise, great time reading your impressions  I also got my beyerdynamic T1 G1 a couple of days ago, and i must say, with my chord mojo / Little dot mk iv SE, i was a bit disapointed.... bright and thin probably would be the words to describe it
> 
> Buuuut then, my Elise #61 arrived about 3 hours ago... i dont know, lost for words? SOO incrediably happy, thin and bright? i dont think so..... tear shedding (no joke) everything just sounds so RIGHT. This with stock tubes.
> First day of vacation, im bringing with me Tung sol 6080, Sylvania 6sn7GTA and EL3N to my cabbin, just gonna enjoy music with an open fire and some whiskey for a few days now.
> ...


 
 Congrats and welcome man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any chance you could try the Mojo via line-out to the Elise to see how well that fares as a DAC?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Congrats and welcome man!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Settled on combination of 6BX7 GTA+ 'Mouse Ears' for powers and EL3N's as drivers, for now. Wonderful engaging, seductive sound. Perfect match for my K702 and HD650.
  
 Two questions:
  
 Anyone any experience using Elise with Grados?
  
 Anyone know the voltage output of the line out? It seems rather low (by ear) and even at max on the vol pot less than the conventional 2V. It's not a problem just curious as it's not quoted in the manual.
  
 Also, the quoted headphone output of 200mA seems much lower than it sounds. Anyone know what headphone impedance this 200mA refers to?


----------



## hypnos1

martinrajdl said:


> Hello hypnos1, thanks for welcoming me. I have seen your youtube video and I came to understanding that you are quite and important person in this thread
> You really did not help with my dilemma, and you guys being so informative and fond of the Elise is really pushing me towards getting it. However, you really did just confuse the hell out of me with tube DAC, since I have no idea what that means. Anyway, I am heavily considering getting Elise. I will see what can I do.
> I will also probably email Feliks Audio on Monday regarding availability ....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo martin...there's a good few here with much lighter wallets after ignoring the warnings, lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (perhaps you shouldn't have seen the video!!...but then you would have missed the opportunity to enjoy the company of some really great guys here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). "Important person"?...more like a "fly in the ointment" on the odd occasion, methinks!!...but thanks anyway...
  
 Re. "tube DACs", these are separate digial-to-audio-converters that use tubes at the output stage instead of the usual solid state op-amp. And I must say I am very impressed with what mine is delivering, but they can run expensive (mine is a very 'reasonable' £600 custom-built here in the UK job). But only really worth spending this kind of money if you already have top-class headphones...otherwise better to spend it on the cans...this is mine :  well, up top anyway - don't know why it ended up there, lol! Strange things do sometimes happen here!!
  
 As for quoting from different pages, just select each quote as "multi" then "reply" and you should be  OK...most of the time!
  
 Best, CJ


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I gotta hand it to ya UT, you've got all the secret tube formulas. Just when I thought I found the best - yet even better was right in front of me all along.
  

  
*THIS *is the best sound yet for me:

  
 Per UT's tip I just swapped the EL3N's and WALA - at first I couldn't believe it, but after some critical A/B'ing here's my take on this setup compared to the above, which was my #1 for electronic:
 A more vivid, up-front presentation with better details; treble and tonality are more organic yet a nuance more 'full'. For me this is much better than 6 EL3N for better clarity / impact / tonality. 
  
 I had to turn on my fan on to cool down the excitement! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To be honest this isn't quite as visually pleasing as the above setup and maybe won't look good at the meet though? But hey at least it looks better than this: 
_   (joke setup, I assure you!)_

  
 PS - I kid you not, I just finished this post as I scrolled up to realize that @HOWIE13 also chose this exact setup as his favorite too! We really hear things even more closely than I thought! Maybe you have Scandinavian ancestry too?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Well I gotta hand it to ya UT, you've got all the secret tube formulas. Just when I thought I found the best - yet even better was right in front of me all along.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Finnish ancestry, so maybe our ears are indeed the same- Amazing!


----------



## connieflyer

Yes,UT told me about that combo long before I got the Elise. In fact he gave me an extensive list of tube combos to try. I like this combo very much also, but keep rolling back to the six EL3N setup. One of the things I like about the Sennheiser 800,is the open expansive, Soundstage and I find (your mileage may vary) provide a larger,less claustrophobic Soundstage. Mind you, this is my personal observation,and I know when I crank up the volume even the dog is rocking out, being a German Shepherd his hearing is better than mine,so if he responds well,who am I to argue. Curiously, he is watching
me very closely as I turned everything on. Totally out of food, so I think when I get back from the store,I better check to see if tubes are still earm. Dogs too smart for his own good.


----------



## UntilThen

@connieflyer @DecentLevi @HOWIE13


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Yes,UT told me about that combo long before I got the Elise. In fact he gave me an extensive list of tube combos to try. I like this combo very much also, but keep rolling back to the six EL3N setup. One of the things I like about the Sennheiser 800,is the open expansive, Soundstage and I find (your mileage may vary) provide a larger,less claustrophobic Soundstage. Mind you, this is my personal observation,and I know when I crank up the volume even the dog is rocking out, being a German Shepherd his hearing is better than mine,so if he responds well,who am I to argue. Curiously, he is watching
> me very closely as I turned everything on. Totally out of food, so I think when I get back from the store,I better check to see if tubes are still earm. Dogs too smart for his own good.


 
 That's right. UT mentioned he had used the 6N23P quite a while back but heard hum with smaller tubes- though so far for me the 6DJ8 types I've tried all have a black background.
  
 In my G1217 amps I always liked Tesla E88CC's for percussive solo piano such as Prokofiev, and so this morning I substituted the EL3N drivers, which did sound very good, for the Teslas and they just lifted and made the piano's tone solid, to highlight the fact that the piano is a percussive instrument. Beautiful three dimensional reproduction of a very good recording.
  
 I think for more mellow, lush sounding piano scores, like Rachmaninov, I will probably prefer the EL3N's.


----------



## HOWIE13

Quote:
  
 Yay!!! (that was meant to go below the girl.)
  
  


untilthen said:


> @connieflyer @DecentLevi @HOWIE13


----------



## HOWIE13

howie13 said:


>


 
 I just realised one positive for using multiple tubes is that any small difference/anomaly of sound in one of the tubes  will likely have less effect on the overall sound than if there was only one tube in the socket-just a passing thought between tubes


----------



## Wreckgar7

decentlevi said:


> Congrats and welcome man!
> Any chance you could try the Mojo via line-out to the Elise to see how well that fares as a DAC?



Yeah thats actually what im doing, and since i havent tried any dacs other than the mojo and Odac i dont have much to compare with :/ but id say that the difference with mojo and odac is that mojo has slight less soundstage but goes a bit deeper in every aspect, i dont have the odac with me now so id probaby have to do more A/B comparison. 

I believe someone avsked about the line out voltage on the mojo, i think it is 3v as max but u can adjust it to 1.9 V.

I Was Kinda hoping someone else would have the mojo to compare with other dacs


----------



## audiojun

Did you guys try rolling caps they change the sound just as much as tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

audiojun said:


> Did you guys try rolling caps they change the sound just as much as tubes.


 

 Maybe more then the tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

2359glenn said:


> Maybe more then the tubes.


 
  


audiojun said:


> Did you guys try rolling caps they change the sound just as much as tubes.


 
 Can you do that in Solid state amps too?


----------



## audiojun

howie13 said:


> Can you do that in Solid state amps too?




Yes it will change the sound as well.


----------



## Lord Raven

I would like to roll capacitors, I recently bought some Russian capacitors and I liked them in my non-tube setup  Can't wait to see someone open up Elise and do that


----------



## HOWIE13

audiojun said:


> Yes it will change the sound as well.


 
 Are there any amps made specifically with the intention of facilitating cap rolling- like having the caps in sockets rather than having, presumably, to solder/desolder and invalidate any warranty?


----------



## HOWIE13

If cap rolling makes such a big difference to the sound then Elise would be the last amplifier I would be cap rolling.
 Seems to me it would make much more sense to roll the caps in an amp I didn't like the sound of.


----------



## UntilThen

audiojun said:


> Did you guys try rolling caps they change the sound just as much as tubes.


 
  
 Eventually when we get bored.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 Encountered a problem with my set-up - one channel barely has sound; then other one is OK. After much soul searching; I mean cable searching, I couldn't figure it out.
  
 Switched wires, switched tubes, inputs etc etc. Driving me crazy - can't find the problem...Perish the thought - could it be the amp????
  
 There is only one thing to do: System Restore. Pulled out all the multiple tubes and inserted the stock TS and OTK Svetlana tubes.
  
 Holding my breath: Yippee - everything back to normal - both channels are just fine. Must be a bad tube somewhere - have to check the tubes one by one - no patience for that now. But something else:
  
 The stock combination sounds just great! The bass is deep and satisfying (just slightly soft, but I like it). I think I am becoming like UT - I like everything with the Elise. Just not dead tubes or bad connections....
  
 And the stock tube complement is 100% Humphrey.
  
 We r the lucky ones.....


----------



## hypnos1

audiojun said:


> Did you guys try rolling caps they change the sound just as much as tubes.


 
  
 Hi audiojun. I've a feeling most of us here want to try and stay the right side of the 2 yr warranty lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  
 And @HOWIE13 makes a very valid point...why take the risk when Elise sounds so good with stock configuration tubes, and can be further 'tweaked' to a good degree choosing from the wide  range of other tubes we have experimented with...we have already found enough different 'signatures' to please _everyone!!_...


----------



## UntilThen

Yes @mordy there are 101 pleasing combinations in Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

102 if you include the Scotch!


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> That's right. UT mentioned he had used the 6N23P quite a while back but heard hum with smaller tubes- though so far for me the 6DJ8 types I've tried all have a black background.
> 
> In my G1217 amps I always liked Tesla E88CC's for percussive solo piano such as Prokofiev, and so this morning I substituted the EL3N drivers, which did sound very good, for the Teslas and they just lifted and made the piano's tone solid, to highlight the fact that the piano is a percussive instrument. Beautiful three dimensional reproduction of a very good recording.
> 
> I think for more mellow, lush sounding piano scores, like Rachmaninov, I will probably prefer the EL3N's.


 
  
 Interesting point, H13...although I personally found the EL3N in my own set-up to develop a more solid bass with extended burn-in (rather 'flabby' in the early days!), I was very surprised to find it enhanced even more when I changed the stock ECC85s in my tube DAC for my Tesla E88CCs (gold pins & grid posts), which have slightly less gain but higher transconductance than the 85s. The Teslas were my favourite 6DJ8 in my LittleDot MKIV SE days - before I managed to get the C3g working in the LDs - but I can't remember them being so authoritative in the bass/lower mids...probably because the LDs weren't configured for them!! But they are certainly doing wonders for the already wide-ranging capabilities of my own EL3N set-up. And so this is proving to be a very useful additional advantage of the tube DAC...so long as I'm not tempted to go looking for some pinched-waist Amperexes lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 ps. How many hours do you have on your EL3Ns by the way?


----------



## mordy

Speaking about 103 varieties, came across a very funny headphone test:
  

  
 It is a virtual haircut - creepingly realistic. When the guy taps you on your head you jump....
  
 8 million people can't be wrong.....


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Interesting point, H13...although I personally found the EL3N in my own set-up to develop a more solid bass with extended burn-in (rather 'flabby' in the early days!), I was very surprised to find it enhanced even more when I changed the stock ECC85s in my tube DAC for my Tesla E88CCs (gold pins & grid posts), which have slightly less gain but higher transconductance than the 85s. The Teslas were my favourite 6DJ8 in my LittleDot MKIV SE days - before I managed to get the C3g working in the LDs - but I can't remember them being so authoritative in the bass/lower mids...probably because the LDs weren't configured for them!! But they are certainly doing wonders for the already wide-ranging capabilities of my own EL3N set-up. And so this is proving to be a very useful additional advantage of the tube DAC...so long as I'm not tempted to go looking for some pinched-waist Amperexes lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I have the same Teslas I think, with gold pins. Yellow lettering, numbered 32. Very nice tube. I'm going to try a few more of these 9 pin tubes as drivers in Elise. 
 I don't know how many hours my EL3N's  have done-bought on eBAY as 'used' and that could mean anything. It will be interesting to see if they firm up in the bass. I do very much like them as they are at present though- it's just I felt Prokofiev needed a more solid sound.
  
 Mentioning LD. I have the 2/2 and the best driver tube for me is an amazing Tesla EP251 which seems very little known. 
  
 Here's pictures of the two Teslas. The EP251's weird getter looks like a tiny astronomical radio telescope.


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> Are there any amps made specifically with the intention of facilitating cap rolling- like having the caps in sockets rather than having, presumably, to solder/desolder and invalidate any warranty?


 

 none that i'm aware of ... & generally, this is a bad idea, imo.  imagine a fully charged ps electrolytic with a loose lead flopping around inside the amp while you are swapping out a tube ... haahaa ... how fast can you change your shorts?
  
 however, having said that ... i did do this on this amp for the express purpose of swapping out different electrolytics ...  you can see that i used quick disconnects rather than soldering. the disconnects are on tight, tight! ... need two needlenose to separate.

  


  
  
 i don't recommend that anyone do this ... the long leads do nothing to improve the sonics & indeed, likely contribute to higher noise floor. i was content to do this with my amp because i knew i would not be making things worse & ofc, done for the interest of ... science!


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> Can you do that in Solid state amps too?


 
  
  


audiojun said:


> Yes it will change the sound as well.


 

 agreed ... altho not necessarily for the better.
  
 more than 2 decades ago, a buddy of mine decided he could improve the sonics of a friend's krell preamp ... swapped out a bunch of factory electrolytics for blackgates and bypassed another crapload with vishays.  noise floor went up 1000% & that's no exaggeration.  a humphrey setup became saturated with ~50dB residual noise.
 & guess what, even after removing his mess, the krell was never the same ... had to be returned to the factory for new pcbs.
  
 if you want to experiment, a good place to start is with 30 - 50 yr old vintage equipment where the stock caps are likely to be 'rotten' & where you can't possibly make things worse. & yeah, i'm not talking about doing experiments on vintage mcintosh or citation either


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> Yes I have the same Teslas I think, with gold pins. Yellow lettering, numbered 32. Very nice tube. I'm going to try a few more of these 9 pin tubes as drivers in Elise.
> I don't know how many hours my EL3N's  have done-bought on eBAY as 'used' and that could mean anything. It will be interesting to see if they firm up in the bass. I do very much like them as they are at present though- it's just I felt Prokofiev needed a more solid sound.
> 
> Mentioning LD. I have the 2/2 and the best driver tube for me is an amazing Tesla EP251 which seems very little known.
> ...


 

 looks like your typical russky saucer getter (but installed at an angle) ... no?   can you post pix of getter viewed from top of tube?


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> looks like your typical russky saucer getter (but installed at an angle) ... no?   can you post pix of getter viewed from top of tube?


 
 Yes, saucer would be a good description. All I know about this tube is that it was made for the military in the 1950's.
 Below are the pictures of the tops of three. Unfortunately, the chrome covers some of the top and light is reflecting around the glass as well.
 Also, as you can see I'm not much of a photographer.
 Appreciate your input.


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> agreed ... altho not necessarily for the better.
> 
> more than 2 decades ago, a buddy of mine decided he could improve the sonics of a friend's krell preamp ... swapped out a bunch of factory electrolytics for blackgates and bypassed another crapload with vishays.  noise floor went up 1000% & that's no exaggeration.  a humphrey setup became saturated with ~50dB residual noise.
> & guess what, even after removing his mess, the krell was never the same ... had to be returned to the factory for new pcbs.
> ...


 
 Thanks- I'll just stick with tube rolling for now!


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> Yes, saucer would be a good description. All I know about this tube is that it was made for the military in the 1950's.
> Below are the pictures of the tops of three. Unfortunately, the chrome covers some of the top and light is reflecting around the glass as well.
> Also, as you can see I'm not much of a photographer.
> Appreciate your input.


 
 thnx for the pix ... yep, hard to see clearly, but saucer-shaped getters are a primary clue to soviet-ski origins for old tubes .... that & cyrillic letters, haaha


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Encountered a problem with my set-up - one channel barely has sound; then other one is OK. After much soul searching; I mean cable searching, I couldn't figure it out.
> 
> ...





Good one, Mordy...glad you didn't have a short between plate and cathode, like I did 

Know you were relieved when default tubes restored the goodness 

I have settled on Ken Rad VT-231 as drivers and 2x 6BL7 as powers. Absolutely superb sound, could not ask for a more beautiful rendition of my musical selections.

Cheers and again, happy for you.

Cheers, also, to all the Lucky Ones and Happy Fathers' day to all the dads, here.


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> Thanks- I'll just stick with tube rolling for now!


 

 that's what i'm doing too ... altho i do reckon that one place where the elise might benefit from is replacing coupling caps (typically 0.1 to 0.2uF, 400-600v) with jensen coppers or audyn true coppers. 
  
 hmmm ... looks like they are using audyn's ... but q4 ... can't see the values.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Thanks- I'll just stick with tube rolling for now!


 

 Roll some headphones too and while you're at it mod the HD650.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Switched from stock to this combination:
  




  
 EL3N as drivers, and 6BL7/6SN7 as powers. Is this the one you like the best? Sounds very good to me.


----------



## connieflyer

I liked that combo also, a very nice sound. UT suggested that a few months back, tried it a couple of times and like it each time.  Still want to get as many hours as I can on the El3N's to see if they change much with time. I really like the 6 pack.  Looks nice and balanced as well. Speaking of balance, did you young'uns  realize that if you drink a whole bottle of scotch, you balance goes all overt. Must be an old guy thing, I don't remember it being this severe before.  Oh well just turn up the music and things feel better.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> I liked that combo also, a very nice sound. UT suggested that a few months back, tried it a couple of times and like it each time.  Still want to get as many hours as I can on the El3N's to see if they change much with time. I really like the 6 pack.  Looks nice and balanced as well. Speaking of balance, did you young'uns  realize that if you drink a whole bottle of scotch, you balance goes all overt. Must be an old guy thing, I don't remember it being this severe before.  Oh well just turn up the music and things feel better.


 
 I don't know about scotch but tequila does wonders with lowering inhibitions and cloths 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Depending on what the definition of "old guy" is I'm really slowing down these days, killed 2 bottles of Dobel with 3 girls last night, used to be able to bounce back by lunch but I'm still hanging at 2:30pm.  Music does really does help, but just light jazz and easy listening for now


----------



## connieflyer

I hear ya,if this keeps up, have to switch to cheaper brand!  Well at least I should sleep for a few hours tonite.  Boy the keys on this keyboard keep moving, have to keep going back over everything, better stop now.  Fingers hitting more than two keys at a time is not a new speed typing style, whew, that took a while.


----------



## CITIZENLIN

pctazhp said:


> Does anyone know if this can be safely used in the Elise??? I just ordered a matched pair from a reliable source in Nigeria along with making my bank account available for an immediate deposit of $10M Dollars USD.


 
 Should I contact MrsXulin to make adapter for this?


----------



## Lord Raven

Guys, who won my GEC 6AS7G tubes?


----------



## nykobing

lord raven said:


> Guys, who won my GEC 6AS7G tubes?


 
  
 Not me. I am scared to use a pair of WE 421a that I have until I get headphones other than the 650 .


----------



## Lord Raven

nykobing said:


> Not me. I am scared to use a pair of WE 421a that I have until I get headphones other than the 650 .


 
  
 I lost them while I was sleeping  Bad timing, what HPs are you looking to buy next? Everyone around here loves T1.1 hehe


----------



## nykobing

lord raven said:


> I lost them while I was sleeping  Bad timing, what HPs are you looking to buy next? Everyone around here loves T1.1 hehe


 
  
 I will probably buy those next, but I keep wasting money on tubes. Found 8 National Union 7n7's this week and I hope 1/2 of them are ok and sound around as good as the Tung Sol 6sn7.


----------



## mordy

Who won the 10-pack 7236 tubes i was watching? Went for $11.20 each.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sorry no GEC 6AS7's @Lord Raven...isn't there an App to bid last seconds in your behalf?

Here is another one for, LR, anyone hip enough to have known about that Bill Evans w/the George Russell Orchestra album...needs to know about this great album:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEmkK_qgJ0M[/VIDEO]




Cheers to the growing family of LUCKY ONES...


----------



## pctazhp

lord raven said:


> Guys, who won my GEC 6AS7G tubes?


 
 Wasn't me. The only ones I know about are the ones on Ebay from the seller in India who wants $250 per tube.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Nanook Rubs It...




[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhHCcUnm4SI[/VIDEO]


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Who won the 10-pack 7236 tubes i was watching? Went for $11.20 each.....


 
 Lol poor Mordy.


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> thnx for the pix ... yep, hard to see clearly, but saucer-shaped getters are a primary clue to soviet-ski origins for old tubes .... that & cyrillic letters, haaha


 
 Thanks for the info-can't find much at all about them.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Good one, Mordy...glad you didn't have a short between plate and cathode, like I did
> 
> Know you were relieved when default tubes restored the goodness
> 
> ...


 
 Is that 4 6BL7's in total as power tubes. If so are you using external power?


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Roll some headphones too and while you're at it mod the HD650.


 
 That's right, I've got plenty cans to roll.
 Rather than mod the HD650 I should probably consider an HD800 or T1 which seem to synergise with Elise very well according to many on this thread.
 At present all the headphones I've tried in the 6 days I've had Elise work well.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> Switched from stock to this combination:
> 
> ...


 
 FWIW that combo sounds very good to me too.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> That's right, I've got plenty cans to roll.
> Rather than mod the HD650 I should probably consider an HD800 or T1 which seem to synergise with Elise very well according to many on this thread.
> At present all the headphones I've tried in the 6 days I've had Elise work well.


 

 I love my T1 with Elise. Have heard HD800 with Elise too and sounds good as well. 
  
 You're into classical music and those are perfect for it.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I love my T1 with Elise. Have heard HD800 with Elise too and sounds good as well.
> 
> You're into classical music and those are perfect for it.


 
 I'm hoping I might hear them at a forthcoming CanJam.
 Trouble is I won't be able to decide which one and I can't afford both, as well as all these tubes for Elise.
 Saving up for those much admired T-S 5998's just now. 
 Elise is indeed just perfect for the complex musical lines of late Baroque -my ears haven't been jarred once by a screechy period violin.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I'm hoping I might hear them at a forthcoming CanJam.
> Trouble is I won't be able to decide which one and I can't afford both, as well as all these tubes for Elise.
> Saving up for those much admired T-S 5998's just now.
> Elise is indeed just perfect for the complex musical lines of late Baroque -my ears haven't been jarred once by a screechy period violin.


 

 That's an easy choice. Toss a coin. Either will sound good. Beethoven will thank you and Mozart will buy you lunch.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> That's an easy choice. Toss a coin. Either will sound good. Beethoven will thank you and Mozart will buy you lunch.


 
 That sounds the best idea.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Good one, Mordy...glad you didn't have a short between plate and cathode, like I did
> 
> Know you were relieved when default tubes restored the goodness
> 
> ...


 
 Today I'm listening with those same gorgeous drivers and 2 × 6SN7+6BL7 powers.


----------



## hypnos1

geetarman49 said:


> agreed ... altho not necessarily for the better.
> 
> more than 2 decades ago, a buddy of mine decided he could improve the sonics of a friend's krell preamp ... swapped out a bunch of factory electrolytics for blackgates and bypassed another crapload with vishays.  noise floor went up 1000% & that's no exaggeration.  a humphrey setup became saturated with ~50dB residual noise.
> & guess what, even after removing his mess, the krell was never the same ... had to be returned to the factory for new pcbs.
> ...


 
  
 Hi g49...just wanted to apologise for putting "aj" on the reputation I posted - should be "g49" of course!!. But I shall repeat the thanks for your sensible advice, lol...


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Yes I have the same Teslas I think, with gold pins. Yellow lettering, numbered 32. Very nice tube. I'm going to try a few more of these 9 pin tubes as drivers in Elise.
> I don't know how many hours my EL3N's  have done-bought on eBAY as 'used' and that could mean anything. It will be interesting to see if they firm up in the bass. I do very much like them as they are at present though- it's just I felt Prokofiev needed a more solid sound.
> 
> Mentioning LD. I have the 2/2 and the best driver tube for me is an amazing Tesla EP251 which seems very little known.
> ...


 
  
 Yo H13...same E88CCs...but got mine at a more reasonable price than usual from ebayer with unstamped "military" stock - very impressive looking tube, and good sound too!
  
 Never seen that EP251 before...certainly an unusual looking little thing!...but good sound also, you say?


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> geetarman49 said:
> 
> 
> > agreed ... altho not necessarily for the better.
> ...


 

 Even though different caps can vastly improve the sound.
 THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE BY SOME ONE THAT IS NOE SURE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
 A zap from a charged filter capacitor can send you across the room.
 And if you don't know how to solder and unsolder all you well accomplish is messing up the amp.


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Yo H13...same E88CCs...but got mine at a more reasonable price than usual from ebayer with unstamped "military" stock - very impressive looking tube, and good sound too!
> 
> Never seen that EP251 before...certainly an unusual looking little thing!...but good sound also, you say?


 
 I think those Teslas of yours are specially made for the military for longevity, and some have a crossed sword logo on the tube.
  
 The EP251 beats every driver I've used with the LD2/2.
  
 I would have liked to roll EF95/6AK5's's into Elise-but I would think that would be taking things a bit too far and asking for trouble as I think it's a completely different circuit.
  
 Elise already gives me plenty of options to keep me happy.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello everybody - hold onto your hats and make way for the next MILESTONE breakthrough.
  
 The thought crossed my mind how the dual 6BL7 adapter is also compatible with 6SN7, which is also compatible with these dual 6J5 adapters, so I thought I'd try my luck. After some initial fear... SPARKS! But just like like an earlier astonished user using this word, we are referring to sparks of infinite SOUND, one hard to put into words... well the sound was so amazing I had to come up with a few new ones:
  
 THRILLING, RIVETING, SPINE TINGLING, EFFORTLESS, AND ABOVE ALL
*TRANSCENDENTAL *- ALL ENCOMPASSING!!!
  
 DRIVERS: two 6SN7 intermixed
 POWERS: 2x 6BL7 + 4x 6J5 (2x Sylvania + 2x Visseaux intermixed)
  

  
 Folks with is without a doubt the best soundstage I have ever heard in my entire life at home. A holographic soundstage as if you're in a jungle of an alien galaxy.
 This made every hair on my entire body stand on end. *Better than the Zana Deux* (and I've heard in 3 times). *16/10*!!!
  
 To put this more in audiophile terms, it's silky smooth, superbly extended from subterranean bass to the clearest of highs, immediate dynamics, vivid, sweet, mesmerizing instrument separation (yet still marvelously cohesive). Needless to say, by far and wide my favorite tube combination yet. And I can even enjoy music I previously hated, just for the awe-incredible sound!
  
 Apologies in advance for those who like other tubes, but I did go ahead and try a few other combinations for comparison.
 THE ABOVE COMPARED TO:
  
 2x EL3N drivers (same powers) about a mile behind in terms of syngergy: loss of details / energy, and bloomy bass
 2x EL3N drivers + 4X EL3N as powers (6x). Something is very, very wrong _in comparison_. Details lost, bass overbaked, confined soundstage, the magic of the above is gone
 2x 6SN7 drivers + 2x GE 6AS7 GA: Wow this is like comparing an O2 amp to the Rangarok. No comparison whatsoever
 2x 6SN7 drivers + 2x 6sn7 / 2x 6BL7 intermixed (one of my and Howie's prior favorites): very similar signature, but soundstage, refinement / presentation at least 40% less
  
 Like I said folks I do not aim to affront for any of you who are a fan of the above tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I just wish to announce my discovery in these totally uncharted waters for what I truly believe is a milestone summit for the Elise. And best of all: this is a solution for 6x powers without external power! and this just may sound equally good.
  
 PS - @HOWIE13 are you hearing this?
 PPS - @hypnos1 please accept my delayed replies while I am _still _catching up with this thread


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Hello everybody - hold onto your hats and make way for the next MILESTONE breakthrough.
> 
> The thought crossed my mind how the dual 6BL7 adapter is also compatible with 6SN7, which is also compatible with these dual 6J5 adapters, so I thought I'd try my luck. After some initial fear... SPARKS! But just like like an earlier astonished user using this word, we are referring to sparks of infinite SOUND, one hard to put into words... well the sound was so amazing I had to come up with a few new ones:
> 
> ...


 
 How could I miss that?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Well I never thought my first week with Elise would be so busy.
 Like you I've got loads of single triode octals. So are you putting a 6BL7 and a 6J5 into one of Mrs Xuling's dual 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapters?
 I had been wondering what would happen if I put a 6J5 into that adapter but didn't have the guts to try.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yes and no. Those 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapters are for dual octal tubes, so you would need to stack on it another dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to use those single octals on this adapter. Two 6J5 are electrically identical to a single 6SN7, but by golly are two better than one in this case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS- I have 4 spare 6J5 tubes...


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> Is that 4 6BL7's in total as power tubes. If so are you using external power?




Yes, 2x per side.

I do not to use external power. 

It's a 7.2 amps draw as opposed to the suggested 6.8 amp limit...so, a little bit over.


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> I lost them while I was sleeping  Bad timing, what HPs are you looking to buy next? Everyone around here loves T1.1 hehe


 
  
 Hey LR...how could you let me down by _*sleeping*_, lol?!...were you too @Suuup? But the price was probably crazy anyway, I suspect...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...So now I must wait even longer for company in what _*I*_ believe is the summit for Elise!!
  
 As I have mentioned before, probably the only way to avoid the nonsense money is to study their "look" meticulously and keep an eagle eye out for some 'sleepers' with a different name to the obvious...along with a good dose of patience/perseverance (not to mention also being able to recognise at a 100 paces the likes of the Russian counterparts LOL!!)...along with a hefty dose of LUCK! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (which is what I wish all those who are interested in trying same...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....CHEERS!!...CJ


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, 2x per side.
> 
> I do not to use external power.
> 
> It's a 7.2 amps draw as opposed to the suggested 6.8 amp limit...so, a little bit over.


 
 Thanks, that tube arrangement will go onto the 'to do' list too.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yes and no. Those 6BL7 to 6AS7 adapters are for dual octal tubes, so you would need to stack on it another dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter to use those single octals on this adapter. Two 6J5 are electrically identical to a single 6SN7, but by golly are two better than one in this case
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Only 4- you must have shed a load. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 So what's the green adapter arrangement in the picture ?
  
 EDIT: OK got it now. Cheers.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Hello everybody - hold onto your hats and make way for the next MILESTONE breakthrough.
> 
> The thought crossed my mind how the dual 6BL7 adapter is also compatible with 6SN7, which is also compatible with these dual 6J5 adapters, so I thought I'd try my luck. After some initial fear... SPARKS! But just like like an earlier astonished user using this word, we are referring to sparks of infinite SOUND, one hard to put into words... well the sound was so amazing I had to come up with a few new ones:
> 
> ...





Interesting setup, DL!!

Uncharted territory indeed, and no external power!

Good job!





.


----------



## HOWIE13

howie13 said:


> Only 4- you must have shed a load.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 OK I got it now-cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys...please don't forget that using so many different tubes at once in this circuit is going to be throwing the design operating points *all over the place*, with the _possible_ negative effects on various components over time. Feliks-Audio *will not* countenance such experiments!...and by the way @DecentLevi...Lukasz _*does*_ look in on our thread from time to time, and so *does* know who does what lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Please be careful out there, guys...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

Wake up @UntilThen another voice for you


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Wake up @UntilThen another voice for you


 
 Thanks CF. Enjoying the music. 
  
 Hope you have a good rest.


----------



## vince741

hypnos1 said:


> Feliks-Audio *will not* countenance such experiments!


 
 As far as I know, it also include EL3N as they are not in the manual. So there's not a lot of people with warranty anyway in this thread.  (But I agree with you on that matter).
  
 For people looking for cheap conventional tubes, I can recommend FOTON 6N8S (pre 1966 thanks to @hpamdr for the tip) and TungSol 6080 (a bit hard to find).


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi. Do you spend more time consulting a Thesaurus than actually finding the combinations you like? I have yet to hear a live performance that could match some of your descriptions.
  
 Have you compared any of your preferred combinations to some of the popular 1-tube-per-socket approaches such as the 5998, 6520, 7236?
  
 Any reason you don't use external power just to stay on the safe side of the Elise transformer's suggested operating maximum?


----------



## hypnos1

vince741 said:


> As far as I know, it also include EL3N as they are not in the manual. So there's not a lot of people with warranty anyway in this thread.
> 
> For people looking for cheap conventional tubes, I can recommend FOTON 6N8S (pre 1966 thanks to @hpamdr for the tip) and TungSol 6080 (a bit hard to find).


 
  
 True the EL3N is not on the "approved" list, vince...but as I have asked Lukasz if there would likely be any major problems using the EL3N, and he thought there wouldn't, I feel we are on fairly safe ground with this tube. And so this gives us a fair bit of reassurance, methinks..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...I would _*never *_espouse any tube/set-up that he had the slightest doubts about...


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Any reason you don't use external power just to stay on the safe side of the Elise transformer's suggested operating maximum?




2x 6BL7 = 3 amps
4x 6J5 = 1.2 amps
2x 6SN7 = 1.2 amps

Total = 5.4 amps.

Default tube compliment = 6.2 amps.


----------



## DavidA

jazzvinyl said:


> 2x 6BL7 = 3 amps
> 4x 6J5 = 1.2 amps
> 2x 6SN7 = 1.2 amps
> 
> ...


 

 I'm too old for this new math


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> 2x 6BL7 = 3 amps
> 4x 6J5 = 1.2 amps
> 2x 6SN7 = 1.2 amps
> 
> ...


 
 Hard to keep track of all the combos floating around. Someone said 7.2 amps.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> @DecentLevi. Do you spend more time consulting a Thesaurus than actually finding the combinations you like? I have yet to hear a live performance that could match some of your descriptions.
> 
> Have you compared any of your preferred combinations to some of the popular 1-tube-per-socket approaches such as the 5998, 6520, 7236?
> 
> Any reason you don't use external power just to stay on the safe side of the Elise transformer's suggested operating maximum?


 
 Unfortunately those tubes are very expensive, if you can even find them sold in pairs. Many are sold in bulk at high prices. Even two 5998 tubes cost $300 with shipping and taxes to buy from the UK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If I were to buy another pair of similar tubes I might as well have purchased a spare Elise and experimented as DL is doing with much more reasonably priced tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Hard to keep track of all the combos floating around. Someone said 7.2 amps.




Oh my! 7.2 sounds scary, doesn't it?


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Oh my! 7.2 sounds scary, doesn't it?


 
 Not to me.I don't go that high.  I'm just an ignorant consumer who prefers to operate my greedy acquisitions within parameters designated by the manufacturer. Call me crazy


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> Unfortunately those tubes are very expensive, if you can even find them sold in pairs. Many are sold in bulk at high prices. Even two 5998 tubes cost $300 with shipping and taxes to buy from the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know. I own all three pairs. But with language that is not often seen to describe a particular combination, I'm just curious as to the point of reference.


----------



## lukeap69

I remember there is a pair of 7236 at the FS forum for 85 USD. I thought that is a nice price.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> I know. I own all three pairs. But with language that is not often seen to describe a particular combination, I'm just curious as to the point of reference.


 
 I hear music in a very similar way to DL.
 That doesn't mean I will always follow his combinations but what he is doing to find less expensive alternatives to the mega expensive tubes I think is very useful, particularly as many of the most favoured tubes for Elise are not commonly sourced in Europe and require paying high taxes and fees from the USA, on both the tube and the postage charges.
 There is always a risk to the tube and the amp but these are risks we can individually weigh up.
 This would be a less colourful thread if we restricted innovation.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> THRILLING, RIVETING, SPINE TINGLING, EFFORTLESS, AND ABOVE ALL
> *TRANSCENDENTAL *- ALL ENCOMPASSING!!!
> 
> DRIVERS: two 6SN7 intermixed
> ...


 
  
 This contraption better sounding than EC Zana Deux?  It's all very amusing to me.


----------



## HOWIE13

lukeap69 said:


> I remember there is a pair of 7236 at the FS forum for 85 USD. I thought that is a nice price.


 
 That is good- bargains are to be found, but it can be a long term slog.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> I hear music in a very similar way to DL.
> That doesn't mean I will always follow his combinations but what he is doing to find less expensive alternatives to the mega expensive tubes I think is very useful, particularly as many of the most favoured tubes for Elise are not commonly sourced in Europe and require paying high taxes and fees from the USA, on both the tube and the postage charges.
> There is always a risk to the tube and the amp but these are risks we can individually weigh up.
> This would be a less colourful thread if we restricted innovation.


 
 And where did I say I oppose innovation???


----------



## pctazhp

Peace on this thread is a very overrated concept


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> And where did I say I oppose innovation???


 
 I think these novel combinations are very innovative.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> I think these novel combinations are very innovative.


 
 That's all well and good, but you didn't answer my question.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> That's all well and good, but you didn't answer my question.


 
 To me the first line of your post #10250 was perjorative towards using these novel, and what I would regard as innovative, tube combinations.
 Maybe I misinterpreted your own use of language?


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> To me the first line of your post #10250 was perjorative towards using these novel, and what I would regard as innovative, tube combinations.
> Maybe I misinterpreted your own use of language?


 
 My language was very clear. I was commenting on his choice of descriptive terms, his point of reference and why he doesn't use external power (the last question later clarified by @JazzVinyl). I said nothing to suggest I was opposed to what he was actually doing. I'm a lawyer and very used to opposing counsel attempting to misstate what I say and trying to create a straw dog argument to rail against. So I chose my words carefully. I can't be responsible for those who choose to read into those words something I did not say.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> My language was very clear. I was commenting on his choice of descriptive terms, his point of reference and why he doesn't use external power (the last question later clarified by @JazzVinyl). I said nothing to suggest I was opposed to what he was actually doing. I'm a lawyer and very used to opposing counsel attempting to misstate what I say and trying to create a straw dog argument to rail against. So I chose my words carefully. I can't be responsible for those who choose to read into those words something I did not say.


 
 OK now I understand you better.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> OK now I understand you better.


 
 Thanks. Let's give peace a chance


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> Thanks. Let's give peace a chance


 
 Cheers to that.


----------



## Lord Raven

I just slept for one night and you guys came up with a new combo  Awesome DL! 

@H1 Sorry the tubes were missed, I need to be more sharp this time. 3 x GEC sold for 215$ not that bad, I bought a pair for 300$ remember? That I had to let go cause of weak internals lol


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Read that it is 118 degrees in Phoenix - how do you manage? Another reason not to use 6 hot running 6BL7 tubes lol.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Read that it is 118 degrees in Phoenix - how do you manage? Another reason not to use 6 hot running 6BL7 tubes lol.....




Indeed, portable, cool running devices would be my choice!

UGH!

Stay Cool pct...!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Not to me.I don't go that high.  I'm just an ignorant consumer who prefers to operate my greedy acquisitions within parameters designated by the manufacturer. Call me crazy




I think I missed the transformer "parameters designated by the manufacturer"...

http://feliksaudio.pl/products/elise/elise_en.pdf

Didn't find it anywhere, on the web site, either.

Can you please point me to the transformer parameters, as published by the amplifier manufacturer?

Many thanks, in advance


----------



## hypnos1

lord raven said:


> I just slept for one night and you guys came up with a new combo  Awesome DL!
> 
> @H1 Sorry the tubes were missed, I need to be more sharp this time. 3 x GEC sold for 215$ not that bad, I bought a pair for 300$ remember? That I had to let go cause of weak internals lol


 
  
 Now I've got to REALLY admonish you, LR....*3x GECs for $215 and you SLEEP?* - I doubt there will EVER be a bargain like that again, lol!!...(or did they have dubious readings/appearance?).
  
 Don't know whether to laugh or cry, my friend...I shall simply hope and pray another such opportunity does indeed come your way...or anyone else's...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...now _*I*_ need to go and have yet another glass of nice Cabernet/Merlot!...see what you've done to me?!!...(doesn't take much to persuade me in such things, though!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!).


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> I think I missed the transformer "parameters designated by the manufacturer"...
> 
> http://feliksaudio.pl/products/elise/elise_en.pdf
> 
> ...


 
 JV. Give it a rest. You know that FA has stated a recommended amp draw from the transformer, which is what we were talking about. Please to find someone who wants to tit-for-tat with you.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Read that it is 118 degrees in Phoenix - how do you manage? Another reason not to use 6 hot running 6BL7 tubes lol.....


 
 I have asked Mrs. X to design a water-cooled, external cooler for the Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact, I also asked her to design a full external amp for the Elise that would bypass everything except the RCA inputs and headphone output


----------



## HOWIE13

Just thinking, in a general sense, not specifically about Feliks Audio, it would be helpful for tube amp manufacturers to give us 'happy rollers' some guidance as to what tube parameters we should aim for and the margins of safety as far as their amps are concerned. I would imagine only the manufacturer would know this.
 Obviously in Elise's case we know about the 6.8A max heater current draw but there presumably are a lot of other parameters to consider which we don't know about and could check with the tube data sheets. Just a thought.


----------



## pctazhp

I've always wondered....
  

  
 Or for @UnitlThen's listening enjoyment:


----------



## geetarman49

2359glenn said:


> Even though different caps can vastly improve the sound.
> THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE BY SOME ONE THAT IS NOE SURE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
> A zap from a charged filter capacitor can send you across the room.
> And if you don't know how to solder and unsolder all you well accomplish is messing up the amp.


 
 i absolutely concur with this ... i think we can should ALL concur with this, don't you think?
  


decentlevi said:


> Hello everybody - hold onto your hats and make way for the next MILESTONE breakthrough.
> 
> The thought crossed my mind how the dual 6BL7 adapter is also compatible with 6SN7, which is also compatible with these dual 6J5 adapters, so I thought I'd try my luck. After some initial fear... SPARKS! But just like like an earlier astonished user using this word, we are referring to sparks of infinite SOUND, one hard to put into words... well the sound was so amazing I had to come up with a few new ones:
> 
> ...


 
 dl, i like to think that i'm a pretty open-minded guy, but seriously ...?  & better than ec zd?  are you sure the sentiments of the moment aren't overwhelming your memory of past events?  don't get me wrong, i'm all in for trying various configurations, but zealous declarations on head-fi have led to all manners of ensuing fire and brimstone.
 perhaps some independent replication/verification before we rush to the hosannas?


----------



## hypnos1

geetarman49 said:


> i absolutely concur with this ... i think we can should ALL concur with this, don't you think?
> 
> dl, i like to think that i'm a pretty open-minded guy, but seriously ...?  & better than ec zd?  are you sure the sentiments of the moment aren't overwhelming your memory of past events?  don't get me wrong, i'm all in for trying various configurations, but zealous declarations on head-fi have led to all manners of ensuing fire and brimstone.
> perhaps some independent replication/verification before we rush to the hosannas?


 
  
 And preferably on an amp other than Elise, IMHO lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...this is truly becoming somewhat of a circus, I fear...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

I’ve been asking myself all morning whether I would head down the Elise path if I was just coming to this thread now. Of course I really can’t know, but I have serious doubts. I’m not sure how people who have experience with good headphones and are looking for a high quality amp could really take the Elise seriously.
  
 Maybe those who are looking for an upscale version of a Garage1217 semi DIY amp might be enticed. But if I were just arriving here and hadn’t been lucky enough to have bought the Elise when I did and become one of the "lucky ones", I might very likely just stick with my Valhalla 2, look for a LC, get on Glenn’s waiting list, wait for the new Sennheiser DAC/Amp or look at some of the other big buck amps frequently discussed on the HD800 Classic and S threads.
  
 I’m sure my own silliness here is not helping, and I’m going to try to constrain myself. But, OMG, it is often difficult to take this thread seriously. It really is too bad there can’t be two separate threads – one for people who are looking for a high quality amp at a reasonable price and those of us who would like to help these people with their decisions and a separate thread for those who are more into DIY and want to push the limits of the Elise. But I know that suggestion has already been floated and resulted in nothing but disrespect and acrimony directed at the member who suggested it.
  
 I don’t have any answers. I have gotten a lot out of this thread and there is much I like about it. But, I can’t even imagine what people who are just wanting to build a quality system for listening and music appreciation must think when they look in on us.
  
 Please understand this is not directed at anyone personally. Just some thoughts that have been going through my Geezer brain this morning )))


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 Here is another version of the Chewing Gum song with the same artist but different lyrics and a better performance IMHO:
  

  
 And here is a special for h1 and UT:
  
 The quintessential circus march -Barnum & Bailey's Favorite (h1 - you can test the sound stage with this 100 piece band) and UT - this is a test for your new Samsung phone - the Bundang Wind Ensemble from Korea (S.?)
  

  
 Don't forget to crank it up full tilt! BTW, I just did and the sound stage does not fit inside my listening room....My entire wall is playing music - wow! (Tubes are EL3N and 6BL7/6SN7)
  
 Hi DL,
  
 With all due respect to all the esteemed members of this forum I encourage you to continue with your discoveries and please continue to express your feelings the way you see fit. Nothing wrong with enthusiasm....
  
 Have been looking at CJ5 tubes (a lot of Jeeps pop up during the searches)
  
 The CJ5 was produced from 1954 to 1983:
  




  
 but I managed to find what I wanted, finally. There are all metal CJ5 tubes, and straight glass envelope CJ5, but what we really want are CJ5 G tubes ST (shoulder type). I don't have the adapters, but here is an interesting pair - a set of STS CJ5 G British Military tubes:
  




 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tested-matched-pair-STC-L63-valve-6J5G-VR67-CV1067-tested-tube-WE-300B-driver-/152136724297?hash=item236c0e2f49:g:69cAAOSwM4xXZ35F
  
 Maybe something to consider.
  
 Happy tube rolling and listening!


----------



## mordy

Here is another sound stage wall stretcher - my Elise is singing:
  

  
 The Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra. The sound is emanating from well outside of my speakers with a glorious sound stage Give it a try!
  
 No wonder I like this orchestra - they are rated #1 or 2 in the world. Huge selection on YouTube of all kinds of music - the selections i listened to are all very well recorded.


----------



## connieflyer

If you go back to page 1 of this thread it might remind you of what transpired before and how this all came to pass.  The discussions with Feliks Audio and there willingness to take on the product and the advice and changes that came from our founders went on to become a very desire able amplifier. I know people want to try different things, and that is their prerogative  but so a few amps get burned up, so what.  Well, that does not bode well for the future of our amp, or the company and it's employees that will suffer from poor sales and a foul reputation.  I know that I came from an ember amp and liked it, but when I heard the Elise the first time, it was easy to see how much superior it was.  If I had only ever heard just the stock tubes, it was still an amazing sounding amp.  I read the pages, talked with a few folks, found out where the envelope was with the STOCK amp, and stayed in the confines of that, not wanting to lose it.  Sure there are others, but style, price and the fact that it is family owned and checked, not mass produced, in this day and age, it is a marvel. The constant gushing of some members with this is the absolute best sounding combo,ever.  That is until the next week, when the wait for it, the absolute best sounding combo ever,  and then throw in as many superlatives as possible.  This does nothing for the folk's that lurk here considering the purchase of the amp.  They see the constant "new best" and think they will never keep up. I bought several types of tubes, each has it's own qualities, none that I would throw out as not fit to listen to.  Even a pair of super cheap, Russian 6as7's, while not the best, don't sound to bad.  I  have lot's of backup's that I like if some burn out.  The best sounding ones for me, are the ones that are in the amp, at any particular time.  Subtle changes in the music are nice to explore.  I don't need or want to be smacked in the face, with an OMG moment and realize, throw everything else out, this is the only true combo.  Nope I enjoy them all. Sure they all come in under what the designer and manufacture says is max, and I am happy with it.  Bought a brand new pair of TS 5998's that should have set me back in my seat, for being so much better.  Didn't happen.$ 250 later,  I roll them in occasionally and enjoy them.  Are they 300% better than the other power tubes,no way. I am not new to this sport. Have been around the bend for along time.  Better is relevant to the event.  How much better is the best,  I doubt we will ever know.  I for one am content knowing that I have a nice select of tubes to try and an amp that just keeps on giving.  I am not in it to push the envelope, I am in it to enjoy the music.  Those that I have offended by my diatribe, can just block me, not a problem for me.  I may have too much time on my hands right now, but risk-reward I don't worry about it.  Thanks for reading.


----------



## Jim Hodgson

pctazhp said:


> I’ve been asking myself all morning whether I would head down the Elise path if I was just coming to this thread now. Of course I really can’t know, but I have serious doubts. I’m not sure how people who have experience with good headphones and are looking for a high quality amp could really take the Elise seriously.


 
  
 I can try to speak to this -- at least from my personal perspective.  I have experience with good headphones, I'm looking for a (new) high quality amp, and I'm just coming to this thread now.  (Well, make that a few days ago when I jumped in to clear up -- to the best of my knowledge -- some Ken-Rad 6SN7 lore.)
  
 To be honest, the more I read and the more I see pictures like "the next MILESTONE breakthrough" (absolutely no offense meant to @DecentLevi) the more you guys are convincing me that the Elise is perhaps a better experimenter's platform than it is a finalized production piece.  I mean, the circuit was ostensibly optimized for one 6SN7GT driving one 6AS7G -- correct?  The fact that so many other tubes and tube combinations sound "transcendental" is concerning.  If you've transcended the original with a simple tube swap, then perhaps the circuit should be redesigned around, and optimized for, _those_ tubes.  Except _those_ tubes change every few posts.  Back to the drawing board?
  
 One thing I know for sure.  If this circuit indeed was optimized for 6SN7GT/6AS7G then you're doing the manufacturer a disservice by arguing for a virtually un-replicatable tube configuration as the path to sonic transcendence.  Case in point:  I started to correspond with Lukasz last week about a possible (maybe even likely) Elise order, but our discussion went cold; I let it drop after this thread left me with some serious doubts about the truly finished nature of his product.
  
 Strange.  I came to this thread with a very high opinion of both the 6SN7GT and the 6AS7G.  This is from using both tubes in different audio gear for years and years.  My original thinking was along the lines of:  hey, why not utilize the nice store of old stock tubes that I already own?  This thread would have any reader believe that those are very "humble" (I think someone said?) tubes that need replacement once the user is "in the know," however.  And that's a huge turn-off quite honestly.


----------



## Oskari

This is the internet. It's (mostly) open for everybody. Don't believe everything you read. Act accordingly. Is that a difficult concept?


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> I’ve been asking myself all morning whether I would head down the Elise path if I was just coming to this thread now. Of course I really can’t know, but I have serious doubts. I’m not sure how people who have experience with good headphones and are looking for a high quality amp could really take the Elise seriously.
> 
> Maybe those who are looking for an upscale version of a Garage1217 semi DIY amp might be enticed. But if I were just arriving here and hadn’t been lucky enough to have bought the Elise when I did and become one of the "lucky ones", I might very likely just stick with my Valhalla 2, look for a LC, get on Glenn’s waiting list, wait for the new Sennheiser DAC/Amp or look at some of the other big buck amps frequently discussed on the HD800 Classic and S threads.
> 
> ...


 

 You have my ears, the more I read about all the different tube combinations the more I want to look around at a different amp.  As much as I love rolling tubes, I don't want to go with all those adapters and 6 to 8 tube combinations, too many things to go wrong and for me in Hawaii it would be very costly to send it back for repairs.  Also, I would think trying all those combinations would end up costing more than just buying 4 really good tubes.
  
 I'm impressed by those who like to tinker (I tinker with SennGrado's and other alternate drivers and wood types) but I stayed away from going the multi tube route with my Ember mainly due to not wanting a strange looking amp and that different sounds were best gotten by a different headphone.


----------



## HOWIE13

I bought two Shuguang CV181-Z tubes a while back and although pleasant, were somewhat un-involving in most previous amps.
  
 They are designed to exactly replicate 6SN7's but didn't share their euphonic qualities. I did like their looks though.
  
 I rolled them in Elise tonight with HD650 and SRH 840 and they are now very much more inviting and involving. Still a very neutral sounding tube, nothing stands out as exaggerated, not for bass lovers. Sound stage fairly average too- though the piano sounded realistic, not huge filling the whole wall of the room, and the notes were solid and well defined without being hard and fatiguing with lovely decay with the SRH 840.
  
 So far, another example of Elise/tube synergy.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Power tubes T-S 6SN7 + RCA 6BL7.
 Total Heater current: 5.4A


----------



## supersonic395

I think there should be a separate thread dedicated to alternate tube configurations as I was lucky enough to read about the amp in its stock/prescribed form. 

And it does sound awesome as is yet I do think this is now obscured somewhat and likely not doing the amp any favours for potential new Elise owners.


----------



## UntilThen

Elise is an exceptional tube amp. Anyone who has heard it knows how good it sounds. The fact that it's adaptable does not mean that it's an unfinished product.
  
 It's unfortunate that a few 'creative' people thinks that their frankenstein mods are very entertaining. This brings disrepute to a marvelous amp. It's a turn-off for me too seeing all those pictures.


----------



## DecentLevi

@Jim Hodgson I truly think the Elise is a marvelous performer, and that it's best looked as a glass half full than half empty in regards to tube rolling opportunities. Just the mere fact that a medium cost amp is able to soar to such magnificent heights really makes it worthwhile. My newest tube combo creates no electrical issues, and may just look a little odd on the outside. But audio gear should be judged by the sound rather than appearance. And one benefit of my latest breakthrough is that all of these are tubes dirt cheap - one can possibly get this sound with extra tubes laying around (plus the adapters).
  
 I will showcase 1-2 of my hybrid setups at the next official Head-Fi meet next month in SF, and you can read what people actually say about it after trying. And if I get the chance, I will do more of a direct comparison to the Zana Deux. But I also ascribe the the notion that price does not always determine audio performance - I've seen many examples where something 10x cheaper can still sound better


----------



## pctazhp

@DavidA and @Jim Hodgson. I certainly understand your positions, and that is exactly why I wrote about my concerns. I certainly would not blame either of you if you go with a different amp. As I wrote that very well may be what I would do if I were just coming here now for the first time - either that or join the French Foreign Legion ))) The rhetoric that many of us have chosen to use and the seeming "tube of the day" approach would certainly be a huge red flag for me. I firmly believe that Elise in its stock form is well worth the price, and with some additional expenditure can be taken to what I consider an "end game" for me.
  
 I can tell you that I am currently running TS6SN7-GTB (original issue) drivers and 5998 power tubes (for a total investment of about $300) and that can easily be my "end game" for my HD800S. But I have to admit I went through a lot of very expensive tube rolling to reach this point. Moreover, I am just one person here and as you have found people are all over the place in their opinions and some are employing crazy looking adapters and external power sources that I believe most HeadFi members simply don't want to be bothered with.
  
 No matter what many of us want to believe, the head phone world doesn't start and end with the Elise amp. There are many other good amps supported by good and informative threads where you can get a good idea of what systems they work with and what tastes they appeal to without having to wade through page after page of people constantly trying to take those amps to stratospheric levels.
  
 As much attention as the Elise has generated, there are only 4 reviews of it on HeadFi. I suspect that is because most of the members who regularly post on this thread never have a particular combination in their Elise for more than a few days at a time, and believe that if they can just find that one elusive combination they will have reached audio nirvana - never leaving enough time to fully evaluate and report on the Elise the way most amps are reviewed.
  
 I fear that the situation will not improve. There is fierce opposition here to separating the DIY/experimenter people into a separate thread. Even with that, I'm sure Feliks Audio will do fine. They are a small company and can't even keep up with the current demand. Plus the Elise is really the only amp in their line that has become an experimenter's dream. Selfishly, I really don't care. I have what I want and what brings me great enjoyment. I do feel a little sorry for those who might have joined me but have been driven elsewhere by what goes on here. But I'm sure no one's life is going to be ruined by choosing an amp other than the Elise)))


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Here is another version of the Chewing Gum song with the same artist but different lyrics and a better performance IMHO:


 
 Thanks Mordy. It's the "Frankenstein" version of the song. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One of my older sisters had the original 45 recording, and I thought it was the most wonderful song I had ever heard or ever would. That may explain a lot


----------



## Insidious Meme

I think quite a few folk would be turned off by turning something beautiful into something out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab.


----------



## pctazhp

insidious meme said:


> I think quite a few folk would be turned off by turning something beautiful into something out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab.


 
 You have succinctly stated what some here believe, but who have been derided for opposing "innovation".


----------



## DavidA

decentlevi said:


> @Jim Hodgson I truly think the Elise is a marvelous performer, and that it's best looked as a glass half full than half empty in regards to tube rolling opportunities. Just the mere fact that a medium cost amp is able to soar to such magnificent heights really makes it worthwhile. My newest tube combo creates no electrical issues, and may just look a little odd on the outside. But audio gear should be judged by the sound rather than appearance. And one benefit of my latest breakthrough is that all of these are tubes dirt cheap - one can possibly get this sound with extra tubes laying around (plus the adapters).
> 
> I will showcase 1-2 of my hybrid setups at the next official Head-Fi meet next month in SF, and you can read what people actually say about it after trying. And if I get the chance, I will do more of a direct comparison to the Zana Deux. But I also ascribe the the notion that price does not always determine audio performance - I've seen many examples where something 10x cheaper can still sound better


 
 Hi DL, I'm very much in envy of your creativity in using different tubes and adapters.  The only point I would not readily agree with is the point about how the appearance should not be judged, I think the appearance is a part of the enjoyment of the gear, a least this is my feelings, and for those that would like to have the wife or girlfriend approval to keep the peace in the household .  I had a WA7d, one of the best looking amps IMO and even if I knew that it wasn't the best sounding DAC/amp combos the look and having the block of glass to protect the tubes was an important consideration in its purchase, another consideration was the fact that there were very few different tubes to try with it.
  
 Another thing I've though about is the notion that there are others that have all these extra tubes laying around, I happen to have some power tubes from my BH Crack but have stayed away from the 6SN7 drivers due to having to use adapters which to me only adds an extra layer of things that could go wrong.  I guess with all the different combinations that are being proposed it get a little overwhelming to some, even to someone like myself that has rolled tubes in the Ember, Lyr2 and BH Crack.
  
 BTW, don't think of this as a bad thing on your part, I do enjoy reading your posts and some of the creative things you have done to further the virtues of the Elise.
  
 Agree with you that there are some things 10x cheaper that have sounded better.


----------



## Jim Hodgson

decentlevi said:


> @Jim Hodgson I truly think the Elise is a marvelous performer, and that it's best looked as a glass half full than half empty in regards to tube rolling opportunities. Just the mere fact that a medium cost amp is able to soar to such magnificent heights really makes it worthwhile. My newest tube combo creates no electrical issues, and may just look a little odd on the outside. But audio gear should be judged by the sound rather than appearance.


 
  
 I actually don't have any objection to the appearance at all.  The exterior looks fine to me ... a few tubes sticking out of a box with some cool adapters.  Right on.  It's what's been altered in the interior that has caused all of the curiosity (at least for me).
  
 And that curiosity makes me wonder if the transcendental improvement you're hearing from your substitute tubes might be from the addition of (albeit pleasant) distortion from tubes running outside of their optimal (i.e., most linear) operating points?


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> @DavidA and @Jim Hodgson. I certainly understand your positions, and that is exactly why I wrote about my concerns. I certainly would not blame either of you if you go with a different amp. As I wrote that very well may be what I would do if I were just coming here now for the first time - either that or join the French Foreign Legion ))) The rhetoric that many of us have chosen to use and the seeming "tube of the day" approach would certainly be a huge red flag for me. I firmly believe that Elise in its stock form is well worth the price, and with some additional expenditure can be taken to what I consider an "end game" for me.
> 
> I can tell you that I am currently running TS6SN7-GTB (original issue) drivers and 5998 power tubes (for a total investment of about $300) and that can easily be my "end game" for my HD800S. But I have to admit I went through a lot of very expensive tube rolling to reach this point. Moreover, I am just one person here and as you have found people are all over the place in their opinions and some are employing crazy looking adapters and external power sources that I believe most HeadFi members simply don't want to be bothered with.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for this post, I've just wrote one to DL to explain where/why all the tube rolling combos can become overwhelming, and even for someone like me who has rolled tubes my Ember, Lyr2 and BH Crack.  One of the reasons I started to look at the Elise was that I could use the power tubes from the BH Crack and asked about using an adapter to use the 6DJ8/6922/etc for drivers in the Elise.
 Your suggestion of separating the thread into appreciation and experimenter sounds like a good idea, I believe the Ember is separated so it can be done.


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I just slept for one night and you guys came up with a new combo  Awesome DL!
> 
> @H1 Sorry the tubes were missed, I need to be more sharp this time. 3 x GEC sold for 215$ not that bad, I bought a pair for 300$ remember? That I had to let go cause of weak internals lol


 
 I bid 214.5$ on that triple. Beat by ½ a dollar.


----------



## pctazhp

jim hodgson said:


> I actually don't have any objection to the appearance at all.  The exterior looks fine to me ... a few tubes sticking out of a box with some cool adapters.  Right on.  It's what's been altered in the interior that has caused all of the curiosity (at least for me).
> 
> And that curiosity makes me wonder if the transcendental improvement you're hearing from your substitute tubes might be from the addition of (albeit pleasant) distortion from tubes running outside of their optimal (i.e., most linear) operating points?


 
 With all the millions and millions words that have been written since the advent of high end audio back in the 60s, I have found it almost impossible to find objective, technical discussions in lay terms of why a particular amp may sound better or different than another. I guess it is commonly accepted that tubes add even order harmonics, but is that why we tube-amp types prefer them? Or can tubes be made to run more linear than solid state? Or do they produce less objectionable odd order distortion? Or are they just tone controls or equalizers in the form of glass that glows in the dark? I certainly don't know.


----------



## Suuup

I myself am not opposed to splitting up the Elise thread into two parts. What I AM opposed to, is where people wanted to draw the line. Strapping a pentode as a triode in a big marshmellow adapter isn't any less weird than using external heating. Either all rolling goes into the other thread or no rolling.


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> I bid 214.5$ on that triple. Beat by ½ a dollar.


 
  
 I am glad I was sleeping, otherwise this trio was going up as high as 300$  Tough luck!


----------



## Suuup

lord raven said:


> I am glad I was sleeping, otherwise this trio was going up as high as 300$  Tough luck!


 
 We should coordinate so we don't bid on the same listings.


----------



## DavidA

suuup said:


> I myself am not opposed to splitting up the Elise thread into two parts. What I AM opposed to, is where people wanted to draw the line. Strapping a pentode as a triode in a big marshmellow adapter isn't any less weird than using external heating. Either all rolling goes into the other thread or no rolling.


 

 How about a compromise:
  
 Tube rolling that requires no adapters or external heating remain in the main Elise thread
  
 Any tube rolling that requires adapters or external heating or any other non-stock/standard item be moved to a Tube rolling and other mods thread.
  
 But I can see why I wouldn't want to do this since I would be searching two different threads and may make it more complicated in the long run.


----------



## Lord Raven

hypnos1 said:


> Now I've got to REALLY admonish you, LR....*3x GECs for $215 and you SLEEP?* - I doubt there will EVER be a bargain like that again, lol!!...(or did they have dubious readings/appearance?).
> 
> Don't know whether to laugh or cry, my friend...I shall simply hope and pray another such opportunity does indeed come your way...or anyone else's...
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL I feel even bad now  The tubes were described as 100%, 80% and 70% and they looked like GEC to my eyes  I am going to need help from forum members to spot GEC and help in the bidding process by not bidding LOL 
  
 Please go easy on yourself, I am still on it hehe Cheers!


----------



## Lord Raven

suuup said:


> We should coordinate so we don't bid on the same listings.


 
  
 Good idea, but they appear rarely, we need to first spot them.


----------



## nykobing

davida said:


> How about a compromise:
> 
> Tube rolling that requires no adapters or external heating remain in the main Elise thread
> 
> ...


 
  
 No adapters? That would even leave out 6f8g and 6c8g too, leaving just 6sn7 then. Just leave all the stuff here and skip over the stuff you don't want to read.


----------



## Insidious Meme

There has been a separate tube rolling thread for a while now. Probably to answer some of the criticisms that's been aired recently.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998


----------



## Suuup

insidious meme said:


> There has been a separate tube rolling thread for a while now. Probably to answer some of the criticisms that's been aired recently.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998


 
 Nah, that was made back when there was a big dispute between Shaffer and a few other members here.


----------



## Insidious Meme

suuup said:


> Nah, that was made back when there was a big dispute between Shaffer and a few other members here.




Shaffer seems to make friends wherever he goes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The hardest part about this whole hobby is finding the time clear your head and sit back and relax and let yourself be swept away by the fantastic sonics of Elise.

When I first got mine, I called it the "Soul Transportation Device" as I felt it had the power to present an illusion that the music was real, instead of merely: music being reproduced, accurately.

If your mind is right, and you are ready to go, Elise has the power to sweep you off your feet and transport your soul to the place and time where the music is being made, presenting an illusion, that you are sitting among the musicians, a part of the music being made.

Elise can certainly do this using the tubes listed in the owners' manual. You do not have to tube roll to get this illusion.

Once you spread your wings, and do a bit of tube rolling, you can easily come across a tube not listed in the manual that enhances the illusion for you. That makes you, enjoy your Elise, even more.

Nothing wrong with that. You owe no apology to FA, or anyone else.

Heck, even the thread starter has done just this, found a tube he loves, that is not officially sanctioned, but makes him enjoy his Elise to his perception of the absolute maximum.

And so it should be, for all.



Cheers to all the *LUCKY ONES*!!


----------



## mordy

Once upon a time there was a king that had an undeveloped tract of land that he wanted to make into a beautiful garden. He invited all the various landscapers, gardeners and craftsmen to display their skills. Some people planted ornamental trees, others planted beautiful bushes and flowers; others made stone gardens and waterfalls, and so on.
  
 When all the work was done, the king strolled around the garden and admired all the beauty. Afterwards he payed all the workers.
  
 Some he paid with gold coins, others with silver coins, and yet others with copper coins.
  
 The people who received the silver and copper coins became upset, and sent a delegation to the king with a complaint: If the king would have told us what he likes and would pay with the gold coins, we would have done only those things!
  
 Answered the king: The beauty of the garden is the variety - if everything was only the same, it would not be beautiful.
  
 Folks, imagine how boring this thread would be with everything the same! - Variety is the spice of life....


----------



## HOWIE13

Ember had two distinct threads but the boundaries became blurred and I found it hard sometimes to decide which to post on and it doubled the viewing time or I missed posts.
  
 Elise, as has been pointed out, invokes ecstatic responses and we all express ourselves in diverse ways.
  
 I'm a newcomer to Elise and I definitely wasn't put off by the posts and pictures.
  
 It's important for readers considering purchasing Elise to understand that Elise with stock tubes is excellent sounding- amazing value for it's price.
  
 It's just in the nature of human endeavour to explore and express satisfaction and delight when succeeding.
  
 Personally, even  if there was a law forbidding tube rolling I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Elise with stock tubes. They are both good examples of their tube types.
  
  Now on to Mozart this morning.


----------



## DavidA

I think the tube rolling possibilities is a double edged sword, while it provides a great platform for experimentation it can also be intimidating to those like me who read of those combinations that many say are great or better than the stock with the possibility of having something go wrong and having to send it back for repairs which for me would be a nightmare.
  
 The way I look at it is if the many combinations that are being proposed here are better than the stock why wasn't it designed with that combination of tubes to start?  Or am I missing the point that the Elise was designed as a semi-DIY project were the individual needs to go out and experiment to find the combination of tubes to their liking?


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> I think the tube rolling possibilities is a double edged sword, while it provides a great platform for experimentation it can also be intimidating to those like me who read of those combinations that many say are great or better than the stock with the possibility of having something go wrong and having to send it back for repairs which for me would be a nightmare.
> 
> The way I look at it is if the many combinations that are being proposed here are better than the stock why wasn't it designed with that combination of tubes to start?  Or am I missing the point that the Elise was designed as a semi-DIY project were the individual needs to go out and experiment to find the combination of tubes to their liking?


 
 I think it's just that Elise is recognised as fantastic value with stock tubes but some owners crave to explore its capabilities. The same happened to my Garage, Schiit and LD amps- in fact I think 'FrankenEmber' became something of an iconic expression.
  
 A friend of mine, now sadly deceased, used to design speakers and amplifiers and he told me it was impossible for manufacturers to keep up with, or to predict exactly, which precise tube or even tube type would be best received or be considered as best sounding as we all perceive sound differently. All he could do was to provide a socket type with it's appropriate electronic design and advise on the tubes that would suit. Then it was up to the owner whether to roll or not to roll.
  
 In this respect Feliks Audio have provided huge possibilities with 4 octal sockets and a generous maximum heater current draw with Elise.
  
 With F-A's Expressivo, for instance, there is little if any possibility to roll the power tubes, though you can roll the 9 pin  6DJ8 drivers. However 6DJ8 tubes don't lend themselves so much to pairing/duplicating so Frankenstein adapters are not used. I don't know why for sure but maybe it's due to the fact they already have a relatively high amplification factor of around 33 compared to the 20 of most 6SN7 tubes. 
  
 If I think back the only time I had to send an amplifier back for repair was when my Horizon's supercharger overheated, and I was using a recommended tube at the time. Never got to the bottom of the problem but it hasn't recurred.
  
 If I wasn't already a tube roller I would stick with Elise's good stock tubes unless I really felt the urge to experiment.
 It's fun, can be addictive and expensive but it's also not necessary in Elise because of the quality of the sound with her stock tubes. That's the way I see it, anyway.
  
 Now back to Mozart.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> I think the tube rolling possibilities is a double edged sword, while it provides a great platform for experimentation it can also be intimidating to those like me who read of those combinations that many say are great or better than the stock with the possibility of having something go wrong and having to send it back for repairs which for me would be a nightmare.
> 
> The way I look at it is if the many combinations that are being proposed here are better than the stock why wasn't it designed with that combination of tubes to start?  Or am I missing the point that the Elise was designed as a semi-DIY project were the individual needs to go out and experiment to find the combination of tubes to their liking?


 
 David. As with any electronic product, there have been a few isolated issues with the Elise. However, I don't think there is a single documented case of a problem arising from tube rolling.
  
 Every tube amp manufacturer has to design its product to use tubes that are readily available. I don't know if Elise was designed with DIY in mind, but FA does provide a list of tubes that it says are compatible (none require adapters). By its very nature, a tube amp is going to invite some experimentation because tubes can easily be replaced from the outside without need of soldering. I personally don't feel I would benefit from going outside FA's recommended tubes. I have in the past, but my preferred combination is within tubes specifically designated by FA. In the future I may try the 6X power octal adapter which has been sitting in a drawer unopened for almost a month. But with the results I have achieved I just don't have much motivation to go with external power.
  
 Here is what I know from personal experience. The Elise in stock form provides a wonderful listening experience with both the HD800S and the T1 Gen 2. That experience can be improved some through judicious tube rolling, but in my opinion nowhere near the extent that some here suggest. The tube rolling issues that arise in this thread can be avoided by going solid state, but then one is pretty much limited by the precise voicing intended by the manufacturer.
  
 I don't believe there is any such thing as fairy dust in electronic design. The fidelity of a waveform presented to an amp input to the waveform reaching the ears from the chosen headphone can be measured. But I don't think that fidelity is the top priority for most of us. Most of us just want a system that will bring us the greatest listening enjoyment within the confines of our budget considerations. For me, Elise has achieved that. I'm not sure what another amp could offer that would exceed that (even if budget were not a concern).


----------



## DavidA

@HOWIE13, thanks for the reply to my post, after reading it over a few times I think I have a better understanding of the design considerations that FA used in the Elise and have a much higher appreciation for it.
  
@pctazhp, thank you also for replying to my post and your comments about being great within the manufacture's listed tubes has set my mine a little more at ease about the Elise.
  
 Now where are all the great tunes everyone has been recommending?


----------



## hypnos1

jim hodgson said:


> I can try to speak to this -- at least from my personal perspective.  I have experience with good headphones, I'm looking for a (new) high quality amp, and I'm just coming to this thread now.  (Well, make that a few days ago when I jumped in to clear up -- to the best of my knowledge -- some Ken-Rad 6SN7 lore.)
> 
> To be honest, the more I read and the more I see pictures like "the next MILESTONE breakthrough" (absolutely no offense meant to @DecentLevi) the more you guys are convincing me that the Elise is perhaps a better experimenter's platform than it is a finalized production piece.  I mean, the circuit was ostensibly optimized for one 6SN7GT driving one 6AS7G -- correct?  The fact that so many other tubes and tube combinations sound "transcendental" is concerning.  If you've transcended the original with a simple tube swap, then perhaps the circuit should be redesigned around, and optimized for, _those_ tubes.  Except _those_ tubes change every few posts.  Back to the drawing board?
> 
> ...


 
 Hi JH...I'm really sorry this is how you feel (at present!), but I can fully understand your position. This is _*precisely*_ why I have continually tried to ask for restraint for a very long while now...I (and others) knew there would be a good few onlookers with the same views. By trying to minimise the "experimentation" - with the _minimal_ use of adapters - and tubes that would not have the FA guys pulling their hair out - this would have the additional benefit of not actually requiring a separate thread, which is indeed a double-edged (and tricky!) sword. And if you had managed to go back further - which I realise can be quite a mammoth task given the pace of this thread! - you may have seen that we have repeated MANY times Elise's wonderful performance with stock configuration. And although one could rightly say our rolling has in many ways been "excessive", we are not the only ones to experiment with non-stock-config tubes. But as per Insidious Meme's words below, I too believe Elise is sometimes looking like something where Dr F definitely chose the wrong grave robbers for his experiment, lol!! And to make matters worse (for me!) is, of course, that it is _*I*_ who am Dr F!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...I knew in my heart that asking FA to consider an amp using 2x 6SN7s and 2x 6AS7G/6080s would most likely result in an extremely good one, at incredible value-for-money... the ONLY (possible) alteration I had in mind was if it could in any way take the C3g that I had come to love in my LittleDot. Suggesting this tube to them would certainly have been futile, given the need for much more readily available - and cheaper! - tubes. As time went on, certain other drivers looked appealing as possible contenders - given my inquisitive nature -  and needed only minimal adapting. Was it really necessary? Should I just have stopped at the C3g?...divided opinion, both in my own mind as well as others' lol! I personally believed I was not altering Elise to _too_ great a degree, and always sought Lukasz's advice as to whether I was going too far...My own personal regret is that _*my*_ actions have been taken much further than I had ever imagined, or wished for...but this is the downside of individuals' freedom of choice, of course...and so I must live with this fact, in the hope that not _too_ many folks are put off, but can choose simply not to join in such practices and enjoy a wonderful amp, at a very reasonable price, using the tubes originally designed for...and which is truly a "finished" product in its own right..._*everyone*_ here will attest to that, and so hopefully put your mind more at rest. Please reconsider your decision in light of these words...(must confess to being somewhat confused by how your discussion with Lukasz "went cold"...we have usually found him to be very helpful indeed...I do hope things can be put right for you).
  
 Regards, CJ
  


insidious meme said:


> I think quite a few folk would be turned off by turning something beautiful into something out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab.


 
  
 I _am_ Dr F, as per above lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


suuup said:


> I bid 214.5$ on that triple. Beat by ½ a dollar.


 
  
 Oh no...you too, S!! Better luck next time...
  


lord raven said:


> LOL I feel even bad now  The tubes were described as 100%, 80% and 70% and they looked like GEC to my eyes  I am going to need help from forum members to spot GEC and help in the bidding process by not bidding LOL
> 
> Please go easy on yourself, I am still on it hehe Cheers!


 
  
 No fear LR...the vino did the trick - for me anyway! Hope you aren't _too_ disappointed yourself - better luck next time to you also!
  
 Those were indeed very good values for that money...will put together a comprehensive guide as to the "real deal" GECs...ASAP...CHEERS!


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> David. As with any electronic product, there have been a few isolated issues with the Elise. However, I don't think there is a single documented case of a problem arising from tube rolling.
> 
> Every tube amp manufacturer has to design its product to use tubes that are readily available. I don't know if Elise was designed with DIY in mind, but FA does provide a list of tubes that it says are compatible (none require adapters). By its very nature, a tube amp is going to invite some experimentation because tubes can easily be replaced from the outside without need of soldering. I personally don't feel I would benefit from going outside FA's recommended tubes. I have in the past, but my preferred combination is within tubes specifically designated by FA. In the future I may try the 6X power octal adapter which has been sitting in a drawer unopened for almost a month. But with the results I have achieved I just don't have much motivation to go with external power.
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely agree with you.
  
 At best, recorded sound can only be an electronic impression of the original. Enjoyment is the key and there's so much to enjoy about Elise.


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> @HOWIE13, thanks for the reply to my post, after reading it over a few times I think I have a better understanding of the design considerations that FA used in the Elise and have a much higher appreciation for it.
> 
> @pctazhp, thank you also for replying to my post and your comments about being great within the manufacture's listed tubes has set my mine a little more at ease about the Elise.
> 
> Now where are all the great tunes everyone has been recommending?


 
 Very glad to have helped.
  
 As far as great tunes are concerned I've just listened to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto and you know how when you've been to a good concert and the music joyously swirls around in your head long after the event is over- well that's how it is with Elise and Mozart just now with me. I can barely believe I was once a sceptic.
  
 Elise is so engaging and intimate in the way she draws you into the music in a manner I've only ever experienced before at live events.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Very glad to have helped.
> 
> As far as great tunes are concerned I've just listened to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto and you know how when you've been to a good concert and the music joyously swirls around in your head long after the event is over- well that's how it is with Elise and Mozart just now with me. I can barely believe I was once a sceptic.
> 
> Elise is so engaging and intimate in the way she draws you into the music in a manner I've only ever experienced before at live events.


 
  
 I think that goes for pretty well everyone else here, H13...I never thought that possible without having to spend BIG bucks!


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> I think that goes for pretty well everyone else here, H13...I never thought that possible without having to spend BIG bucks!


 
 ...and the uncanny ability of Elise to embrace me is not dependent on the tube types.
  
   Sure you can tweak the sound even more to your personal liking with tube rolling but Elise's ability to involve me in the music and the performance applies to the stock tubes too.


----------



## DavidA

howie13 said:


> Very glad to have helped.
> 
> As far as great tunes are concerned I've just listened to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto and you know how when you've been to a good concert and the music joyously swirls around in your head long after the event is over- well that's how it is with Elise and Mozart just now with me. I can barely believe I was once a sceptic.
> 
> Elise is so engaging and intimate in the way she draws you into the music in a manner I've only ever experienced before at live events.


 
 I went to a few operas and concerts while in Vienna, Zurich, Munich, and Strasbourg the last 2 times I was over in Europe and that really spoiled me, helped that my ex-wife was a soprano and quite good but gave it up after college.  The best concerts in Hawaii were actually in night clubs many years ago, most have closed up due to the changing times, we also have the Waikiki Shell which is a nice open venue but they got so many complaints about the noise that the number of concerts are few and far between these days.  Still remember sitting on the grass with a bunch of friends and passing a joint around sipping beers.
  
 I'm sorry I don't have much in the way of Mozart, but I have Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi, Handel, Bach, and Schubert.  Funny part is I'm using a my modded SennGrado driven by the headphone of my computer and am really enjoying it, no need for any extra DAC or amp:


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> I went to a few operas and concerts while in Vienna, Zurich, Munich, and Strasbourg the last 2 times I was over in Europe and that really spoiled me, helped that my ex-wife was a soprano and quite good but gave it up after college.  The best concerts in Hawaii were actually in night clubs many years ago, most have closed up due to the changing times, we also have the Waikiki Shell which is a nice open venue but they got so many complaints about the noise that the number of concerts are few and far between these days.  Still remember sitting on the grass with a bunch of friends and passing a joint around sipping beers.
> 
> I'm sorry I don't have much in the way of Mozart, but I have Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi, Handel, Bach, and Schubert.  Funny part is I'm using a my modded SennGrado driven by the headphone of my computer and am really enjoying it, no need for any extra DAC or amp:


 
 Sounds like you have a nice set-up in Hawaii. I'm envious.
  
 I regret giving up the piano when I was younger- I didn't realise at that time how good it can be to create music. I now only listen but I'm really a frustrated performer.
  
 I think Classical is hard on audiophiles because there are so many genres and instruments to consider. At present I am learning more about late Baroque and your Bach, Handel and Vivaldi would sound so sweet and clear in Elise.
  
 Have not listened to any Tchaikovsky yet with Elise but had a Schubert Piano Sonata playing late last night, in the dark except for the glow of the tubes, and the effect was truly magical.
  
 Have fun!


----------



## DavidA

@HOWIE13, haven't you seen my listening table which is a mess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, one of the reasons I am looking at the Elise is to get rid of the Ember and BH Crack and get some space to put a couple of wine glasses.  I think I posted the pictures on this thread a few weeks ago.
  
 I used to play in a band back in middle and high school, rhythm guitar and trumpet, sadly I sold the guitar (Fender Strat) after graduating from college but I still have my Bach Stradivarius trumpet and a very old Kamaka ukulele that my dad and I used to play.
  
 My experience with classical came about due to my ex-wife, its one of the few things that she introduced to me that I still love to this day but I don't usually buy any new recordings since my knowledge is very limited, I know I like stuff from the Baroque period so I then to stay with that most of the time.  Tchaikovsky (Nutcracker, Swan Lake) was from playing in high school concert band and Schubert was from my ex-mother in-law being a piano teacher.
  
 Anyway, the GF wants to go to sleep so will be finishing up my glass of wine and calling it a night.


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> @HOWIE13, haven't you seen my listening table which is a mess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## connieflyer

Wait, you would rather finish your wine,and go to bed with your GF, instead of talking with your loyal fans,unheard of!!!!


----------



## hypnos1

Well folks...at this juncture I would just like to thank everyone who has contributed thus far to this (controversial!) thread...never a dull moment, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I feel I must give special thanks to @UntilThen for the tremendous input he has given, and the time he has obviously been committing to us here...many thanks UT!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 CHEERS! to all...and continued HAPPY LISTENING!...


----------



## Suuup

Bought a couple pairs of Fivre 6SN7. I also bought a pair of Chatham 6AS7 from Langrex, but have no picture of them. Comfort-buying after I missed 3 GEC 6AS7 by ½ a dollar.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> [Bought a couple pairs of Fivre 6SN7. I also bought a pair of Chatham 6AS7 from Langrex, but have no picture of them. Comfort-buying after I missed 3 GEC 6AS7 by ½ a dollar.




Will be interested in your listening report with these, Suuup!

Look nice...!


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Well folks...at this juncture I would just like to thank everyone who has contributed thus far to this (controversial!) thread...never a dull moment, lol! :wink_face: . But I feel I must give special thanks to @UntilThen
> for the tremendous input he has given, and the time he has obviously been committing to us here...many thanks UT!!
> 
> CHEERS! to all...and continued HAPPY LISTENING!...




Indeed! @UntilThen's message stats:

4,451 Posts. Joined 6/2015

That comes to 12.19 messages every 24 hours. 
Or, one message every 2 hours, 24 hours a Day, Seven Days a Week, for 365 days.

I hope @hypnos1, and FA, give him an award!

Amazing!


----------



## mordy

Does anybody know what this is? Tung Sol XRVD7


----------



## UntilThen

It's @Lorspeaker  's fault. I wanted to overtake him. Still a long way to go.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Does anybody know what this is? Tung Sol XRVD7


 
 It's a sample Mordy.


----------



## UntilThen

Do you remember the 1st tube(s) you bought? 
  
 This is my first. In my entire life. From eBay for US$32. 6th August 2015. Bought it for Elise but Elise came only on the 27th Oct 2015.


----------



## Jim Hodgson

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JH ... must confess to being somewhat confused by how your discussion with Lukasz "went cold"...we have usually found him to be very helpful indeed...


 
  
 Oh!  My apologies ... I gave you the completely wrong impression.  I didn't mean at all that Lukasz was cold or unhelpful.  Quite the opposite, actually.  He was quick, direct, and extremely helpful in answering my initial questions about this amp.  (And by "initial," I mean those questions that I had prior to happening upon this thread.)  It was I who let the conversation drop (or "go cold") when I realized I was about to nickel and dime him to death with a thousand questions that this thread has now lodged in my mind.
  
 I definitely appreciate your other thoughts (which I neglected to quote) as well -- especially those concerning the manufacturer's frustration.  I would be "pulling my hair out" as well.


----------



## geetarman49

slotted graphite 6080:  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6080WB-BENDIX-JAN-CEA1962-6080-6336-5998-7236-little-bear-P8-No-reserve-3-day-/172248716925?hash=item281ad2d67d:g:tG4AAOSwjXRXaKpz
  
 6as7g of ??? provenance (i c flying saucers) :  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-6AS7G-5998-421A-TUBES-MULLARD-GENELEX-GEC-ENGLAND-TEST-NOS-/152129840972?hash=item236ba5274c:g:iBoAAOSw7ehXRhXI


----------



## UntilThen

Hi JH, welcome to this thread. I can assure you Elise is perfect with 6SN7 and 6AS7. That's what it's tuned for.

It's worth $1200 imho.


----------



## UntilThen

Geetarman your Elise should arrive any minute so start bidding on the $1 Bendix.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Wait, you would rather finish your wine,and go to bed with your GF, instead of talking with your loyal fans,unheard of!!!!


 

 Sorry, but I like to keep the missus happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Don't know where I heard it but "happy wife (or GF) = happy life"


----------



## connieflyer

Hi , Jim Hodgson One of the reasons I bought the Elise,is that I already had alot of tubes,that could be used.  I especially liked my Ken-rad vt-231's and Sylvania vt-231's,  I have used these with the Elise and like the quite well. @UntilThen put me on to the El3n's and using the 6sn7's with 6bl7's as powers and it is a very nice sound indeed.  I had heard about the TS 5998's as powers,and wanted to try them as well.  Found a new matched pair, and with shipping about $275.  Sounded great.  But was it worth the money, I don't think so.  I have some 6AS7g's that are very close and 1/3 the price.  So you don't have to spend alot,  you can if you persue the creme de la creme but the stock tubes sound great.  Your 6sn7's will last you along time and give you lot's of good service


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Geetarman your Elise should arrive any minute so start bidding on the $1 Bendix.


 

 nah ... bendix, schmendix ... got 1 ... who needs more than 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?
 beside, i got el3n and chatham 6as7g.
  
 elise has only spent 7 days with cdn customs --> i do not expect her to be released until another 5 days has passed & then it will be at least 4 days for shipping across the country.


----------



## mordy

Hi geetarman49,
  




  
 See them flying saucer getters? IMHO these are Russian 6H13C or similar tubes and maybe worth $5-10 each. Similar to the stock tubes with the Elise.


----------



## mordy

Here is a link to a reputable place that will sell you a Sennheiser HD650 for $500 with a $200 gift card (added automatically to cart) Ships to US and Canada:
  
 http://www.adorama.com/SEHD650.html?emailprice=t&utm_source=rflaid912761
  
 They also have some Audeze models for sale.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi geetarman49,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's exactly what I was thinking!


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Hi , Jim Hodgson One of the reasons I bought the Elise,is that I already had alot of tubes,that could be used.  I especially liked my Ken-rad vt-231's and Sylvania vt-231's,  I have used these with the Elise and like the quite well. @UntilThen put me on to the El3n's and using the 6sn7's with 6bl7's as powers and it is a very nice sound indeed.  I had heard about the TS 5998's as powers,and wanted to try them as well.  Found a new matched pair, and with shipping about $275.  Sounded great.  But was it worth the money, I don't think so.  I have some 6AS7g's that are very close and 1/3 the price.  So you don't have to spend alot,  you can if you persue the creme de la creme but the stock tubes sound great.  Your 6sn7's will last you along time and give you lot's of good service


 
 I'm using the same power tube combination as you and now just enjoying trying different 6SN7 tubes that, like you, I have from previous amps. I tried the ELN3's as drivers as well.
 Trouble is they all sound so good, including the stock tubes.
 The one other I would like to try is the C3G as drivers.
  You have just saved me paying out $300 on the TS5998.


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking!


 
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi geetarman49,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 absolutely ... cf, my post #12001  ....  i just didn't want to come out & say the seller is a gd liar ... oops, i guess i did.
 for the uninitiated, the lure of marques like genelex, gec, etc. may lead to ... ripoff.


----------



## DavidA

Wow, this is the slowest I've seen this thread in the last few weeks, what's happening people?
  
 Since I didn't get my daily tunes recommendations I've been listening to stuff from the 80's, quite a change from last nights classical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, my GF is listening to many of these songs for the first time and she's got the head bob and foot tapping going, its going to be a long night, need another bottle of wine.


----------



## connieflyer

@HOWIE13 I have a pair of Siemen's C3G,s and they sound great also.  They have a very good definition to them, a little light in the bass maybe, but lots of upper mids and highs.  Hard to pick my absolute favorite, as everytime I roll in some different combo's I am usually quite happy to listen to them for awhile.  Have not really heard any I did not like, differences are there but the synergy with different recordings does change some.  Have not listenened with headphones in awhile, enjoying the Elise as a preamp, my neighbors can attest to how good they sound!


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> @HOWIE13 I have a pair of Siemen's C3G,s and they sound great also.  They have a very good definition to them, a little light in the bass maybe, but lots of upper mids and highs.  Hard to pick my absolute favorite, as everytime I roll in some different combo's I am usually quite happy to listen to them for awhile.  Have not really heard any I did not like, differences are there but the synergy with different recordings does change some.  Have not listenened with headphones in awhile, enjoying the Elise as a preamp, my neighbors can attest to how good they sound!


 
  
 Lucky neighbours! 
  
 I have recently bought the Siemens and from all accounts they should be perfect for Early/Baroque Music.
 I don't feel such an urge to roll tubes just now. I've past the first week of intense, frenetic activity. Any tubes I'm using sound so good  I don't feel the need to change. It's a weird and wonderful feeling really. 
 I've left the powers as 6SN7 and 6BL7 combined, as you do. No doubt the urge to explore will come upon me in due course.


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 While the C3g are excellent tubes it seems that they are too bright in some combinations in the Elise. From personal experience, and from reading about others having tried them, it does not seem that they are the favorite driver tubes for most people.
  
 In the early days of the Elise I asked Lukasz about the C3g tubes. He said that they need a different bias to be optimized for use in the Elise.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> While the C3g are excellent tubes it seems that they are too bright in some combinations in the Elise. From personal experience, and from reading about others having tried them, it does not seem that they are the favorite driver tubes for most people.
> 
> In the early days of the Elise I asked Lukasz about the C3g tubes. He said that they need a different bias to be optimized for use in the Elise.


 
 That's interesting. It maybe the brighter sound is related to the bias not being optimal. As long as the bias isn't so off that it distorts it may be very good. I like a bright signature for early instrument stuff though, like 'early instrument' violins, recorders, flutes, harpsichord, etc. Not screeching- but almost- LOL.
  
 It will be interesting anyway-I got a cheap, cheap pair on eBay. Hope they work, I read they can be a bit fragile,(can't remember where).


----------



## mordy

These tubes are VERY fragile - you cannot remove them like other tubes , rolling them (rocking back and forth), because the glass envelope may crack. The only way is to pull straight up. (To insert, push straight down.)
  
 The best way to remove them is to take a small thin flat blade screwdriver and go around the tube base, gently lifting a little bit at a time, until it is loose enough to pull out.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> These tubes are VERY fragile - you cannot remove them like other tubes , rolling them (rocking back and forth), because the glass envelope may crack. The only way is to pull straight up. (To insert, push straight down.)
> 
> The best way to remove them is to take a small thin flat blade screwdriver and go around the tube base, gently lifting a little bit at a time, until it is loose enough to pull out.


 
 I never realised that. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> That's interesting. It maybe the brighter sound is related to the bias not being optimal. As long as the bias isn't so off that it distorts it may be very good. I like a bright signature for early instrument stuff though, like 'early instrument' violins, recorders, flutes, harpsichord, etc. Not screeching- but almost- LOL.
> 
> It will be interesting anyway-I got a cheap, cheap pair on eBay. Hope they work, *I read they can be a bit fragile,(can't remember where).*


 
  
 Hi H13.
  
 Perhaps you read it over at the LittleDotTAVTRolling guide many moons ago. I discovered this frightening tendency when I first started making adapters, as opposed to soldering wires direct from the tube to a new base...2 cracked NOS Siemens 'S' tubes almost brought me to tears, lol!...and then a few others suffered also, until it became clear just what was the cause, and the extreme caution needed when inserting/removing, as mordy said.
  
 I found the C3g is very good for systems that need that added 'sparkle', and bring more life to HD650s especially...so long as nothing else is highlighting treble to any great degree! I have never encountered any excessive 'distortion' whatsoever when using this wonderful tube. But as with ALL tubes, personal preference plays its part here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  
 ps. They do have a very long life span, so hopefully there should still be plenty left in your "cheap, cheap" pair...at least if they don't work you should be OK for refund these days - just be EXTREMELY careful with the insertion and/or removal...as mordy says, no side-to-side 'waggling/rolling' WHATSOEVER!!...hope you like them...


----------



## hypnos1

jim hodgson said:


> Oh!  My apologies ... I gave you the completely wrong impression.  I didn't mean at all that Lukasz was cold or unhelpful.  Quite the opposite, actually.  He was quick, direct, and extremely helpful in answering my initial questions about this amp.  (And by "initial," I mean those questions that I had prior to happening upon this thread.)  It was I who let the conversation drop (or "go cold") when I realized I was about to nickel and dime him to death with a thousand questions that this thread has now lodged in my mind.
> 
> I definitely appreciate your other thoughts (which I neglected to quote) as well -- especially those concerning the manufacturer's frustration.  I would be "pulling my hair out" as well.


 
  
 Ah...thanks for putting my mind at rest re. Lukasz, JH.
  
 And yes, this thread certainly can get the head swimming at times, lol!...needs time to let things "sort themselves out" amongst those grey cells! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...best wishes in your eventual choices...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi H13.
> 
> Perhaps you read it over at the LittleDotTAVTRolling guide many moons ago. I discovered this frightening tendency when I first started making adapters, as opposed to soldering wires direct from the tube to a new base...2 cracked NOS Siemens 'S' tubes almost brought me to tears, lol!...and then a few others suffered also, until it became clear just what was the cause, and the extreme caution needed when inserting/removing, as mordy said.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You may well be right about me reading your posts on the LD thread.
  
 I do remember, maybe 2 years ago, asking LD if I could use 6SN7's as power tubes and was told they had not been tested by them and were not recommended. Then I read someone else had used them and I started to as well. Well that was probably your good-self.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Those TS 6SN7GTB's are still happily playing in my LD (though not as much recently).
  
 I like 'sparkle' and good dynamics, which I guess is why I like my AKG's but the HD 650 is so dependable and versatile  I hope the C3G will provide that bit of extra fizz. I'll let you know.
  
 Edit: Just realised they will be going into a C3G to 6SN7 adapter so once they are in hopefully I won't have to disturb them.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> Wow, this is the slowest I've seen this thread in the last few weeks, what's happening people?
> 
> Since I didn't get my daily tunes recommendations I've been listening to stuff from the 80's, quite a change from last nights classical
> 
> ...


 

 Well there are distractions in life like new phone and camera and the Euro 2016 to keep up with. 
  
 I'll give you more 80s songs.


----------



## UntilThen

@HOWIE13  C3G does sound good with stock HD650. I think you will like it. It's still a bit bright for my ears. You'll need these adapters.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-or-Woo-WA5-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144:g:JTMAAOSwZ1lWc-Dd


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> Those TS 6SN7GTB's are still happily playing in my LD (though not as much recently).


 
  I'm just curious as to whether you have tried them as drivers in your Elise? Thanks ))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm just curious as to whether you have tried them as drivers in your Elise? Thanks ))


 

 I did but I'm using no frills Tung Sol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  See my avatar photo.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I did but I'm using no frills Tung Sol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What a radical concept


----------



## Audict123

The fragily of the C3G is real, it has to be handled with care. But one thing seems to be forgotten: it requires its dedicated adapter so you only need to insert it in that once! Tube rolling is done with the whole assembly of tube + adapter, no problems there...
  
 Connieflyer: I noticed that you used tubes of the 6J5, 6C5 and 6L5 variety in the Project Ember amp. The Visseaux 6C5 are among my favorite drivers in the Elise! They are used icw the ECC31->ECC33 adapters. The gain is somewhat lower than with 6SN7 (obviously, single triodes versus doubles, gain 20 mu for each triode) but that is not an issue with my HD650. I'd really like to know if the 6L5 and the even older 6P5 tubes work with Elise. Did you ever try that?


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> I'm just curious as to whether you have tried them as drivers in your Elise? Thanks ))


 
 I'll try that out tomorrow and post how they compare to the stock tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

Quote:Originally Posted by *UntilThen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   @HOWIE13  C3G does sound good with stock HD650. I think you will like it. It's still a bit bright for my ears. You'll need these adapters.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-or-Woo-WA5-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144:g:JTMAAOSwZ1lWc-Dd
  
  
 Thanks
  
 They are on their way too. 
 To be honest I've ordered so much stuff from Mrs X in the last couple of weeks I 'm not sure what's due to arrive from one day to the next. It's like Christmas every day


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13  C3G does sound good with stock HD650. I think you will like it. It's still a bit bright for my ears. You'll need these adapters.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-or-Woo-WA5-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144:g:JTMAAOSwZ1lWc-Dd


 
 I wonder if they might bring some life to my rather uninvolving DT880's too. Might be too much up top but Elise has such a well controlled, sweet treble they may be good too.
 I hardly ever use the DT880's, but want to like them as they are so comfortable..


----------



## connieflyer

I have used them with 650's,700's and now the 800's and they all sounded fine to me.  With the 800's with some music they are a little bright, but with that brightness, comes the detail, that I was looking for with the 800's.  They are all fine headphones,but the only ones I kept were the 800, these are not the newer 800S, did not care for those as much. Dual  6L5's were my favorite in the Ember, the 6c5's were very smooth, but rolled of in the treble,  the 6j5's were really nice,  but he 6L5's added just a little extra smoothness to the entire range.
 Have not tried them with the Elise as I sold off all the tubes and adapters with the Ember when I sold it, except for the 6sn7's I kept most of them.


----------



## connieflyer

Have a question for all you smart folks out here.  Years ago I was told that you ran your preamp full out and controlled volume with the main amp.  Is that still true?  I have not tried that yet, but it seems like a good idea, as the Elise has no remote, and I get lazy sometimes.  If this works with out harm to the Elise or tube life, I could move them farther away and use a better setup.


----------



## 2359glenn

connieflyer said:


> Have a question for all you smart folks out here.  Years ago I was told that you ran your preamp full out and controlled volume with the main amp.  Is that still true?  I have not tried that yet, but it seems like a good idea, as the Elise has no remote, and I get lazy sometimes.  If this works with out harm to the Elise or tube life, I could move them farther away and use a better setup.


 

 That varies with the output voltage of your source. I would turn your main amp all the way then turn up the preamp/Elise to the max volume you want to listen to
 Then turn it down at the main amp. Why go all the way if your not going to use it just may cause  unnecessary  distortion. Plus this will give you more range
 on the volume control on your main amp.


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 This is how I run my preamp set-up with the Elise, and I have not noticed any untoward effects on the tubes. I test tubes for hum with the Elise at full volume and, without any music playing, increasing the volume to max on my amp.
  
 Don't know why, but many times there is less hum with the Elise volume at max, compared to 75%. Most of the time there is slight residual hum listening through speakers, but it disappears when I lower the volume on my amp. In any case, the volume levels where there is hum are too loud for listening.
  
 Sometimes there is too much hum at all levels with certain tubes, making those combinations unlistenable. And then, there are tube combinations that are totally Humpfrey.....


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you sir, your expertise is always welcome.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> I'll try that out tomorrow and post how they compare to the stock tubes.


 
 Thanks so much


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13
> C3G does sound good with stock HD650. I think you will like it. It's still a bit bright for my ears. You'll need these adapters.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-C3G-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-or-Woo-WA5-/201487044932?hash=item2ee9905144:g:JTMAAOSwZ1lWc-Dd




This is a very nice adapter with a lovely NOS socket.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I found the C3g is very good for systems that need that added 'sparkle', and bring more life to HD650s especially...so long as nothing else is highlighting treble to any great degree!




My system (Rega DAC, HD 600) exhibits very civilized treble and I'm a big fan of the C3g.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Here's a nice pair of "no frills" 6SN7s for you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MB-SYLVANIA-6SN7A-6SN7W-Metal-Base-Military-Matched-Pair-Tube-Original-box/222143198593?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36866%26meid%3D403752d7b25f40f0881f68c674169c27%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D201487044932


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> My system (Rega DAC, HD 600) exhibits very civilized treble and I'm a big fan of the C3g.


 

 Inspired by your big fan statement, I've decided to try C3G again. I've to say this is a dynamite pairing with T1. It's crystal clear plus a solid and tight bass from the 7236. Head bobbing and shoulders movin' now.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Inspired by your big fan statement, I've decided to try C3G again. I've to say this is a dynamite pairing with T1. It's crystal clear plus a solid and tight bass from the 7236. Head bobbing and shoulders movin' now.


 
  

 hey UT, try it with this:


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> I'm just curious as to whether you have tried them as drivers in your Elise? Thanks ))


 
  

  
  
 These are the two TS 6SN7GTB tubes. The one on the left is the '60's antecedent of the one on the right, which is Elise's stock driver, made in Russia.
 The later version has a taller bottle and a different plate structure.
  
 I'm using the two 6SN7+ 6BL7 combos as Power tubes.
  
 In terms of sound the earlier TS is clear and images instruments very well. It's analytical rather than warm. Very good dynamics. Sound-stage is average, not vast but more mid-stage focused. Treble is well extended, sweet and smooth, and mids reasonably forward, but not suffocatingly so. Bass is a bit shy to my ears but still articulate and well controlled.
  
 In contrast, Elise's stock later Russian made version has a warmer, euphonic sound with deeper bass and a larger sound-stage.
  
 The two tubes don't sound too similar to me at the moment but the stock tube has only played for maybe 12 hours and the original for many more, so the stock tube's sound may well evolve.
 I may also have got different results with different power tubes.
  
 I hope this gives you a flavour of their sound. I could recommend this earlier TS if you wanted a clean, analytical type of sound to compliment the good stock tube, and it's a very modest price too


----------



## connieflyer

Too early in the morning to wake the neigbors, so put Senn 800 on, first time since the wife passed, did not want to get to involved in the music I guess.  I had forgotten how good they sound. The separtion of instruments and clarity of rendition brought a tear to my eye, had to try one of the wife's older favorites. Relived some great memories with this one.
  
  
  

  
  
@UntilThen  you up to these yet?


----------



## connieflyer

Or perhaps this is a little slower for you this morning @UntilThen


----------



## UntilThen

Beautiful music and video. Much better than geetarman's zombie girl. 

I'm singing with the Irish now in Euro 2016.


----------



## connieflyer

I thought when I took off my phones, to get more coffee, I heard an ominous sound of singing in the distance!


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> These are the two TS 6SN7GTB tubes. The one on the left is the '60's antecedent of the one on the right, which is Elise's stock driver, made in Russia.
> The later version has a taller bottle and a different plate structure.
> 
> I'm using the two 6SN7+ 6BL7 combos as Power tubes.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your detailed description. I actually own a pair of short bottle original issue TS6SNT-GTBs and my experience is similar to yours. We pay a lot of attention here to various power combos, but I think the drivers can make a bigger difference in most cases.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Inspired by your big fan statement, I've decided to try C3G again. I've to say this is a dynamite pairing with T1. It's crystal clear plus a solid and tight bass from the 7236. Head bobbing and shoulders movin' now.


 
 Ditto for the HD800S. Question:  when you went back to try the C3Gs again, how did you know they would work so well with the 7236s? Did you try other power tubes first?


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> Thanks for your detailed description. I actually own a pair of short bottle original issue TS6SNT-GTBs and my experience is similar to yours. We pay a lot of attention here to various power combos, but I think the drivers can make a bigger difference in most cases.


 
 That was my experience with my LD2/2 too.


----------



## pctazhp

Like the beautiful Mannheim Steamroller videos this is music to soothe the soul. Sorry no zombies


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Ditto for the HD800S. Question:  when you went back to try the C3Gs again, how did you know they would work so well with the 7236s? Did you try other power tubes first?


 
 Spending much time with my power and driver tubes helps. I know their sound signatures well. Some tubes are warm, others are more neutral or bright. Some have more bloom, others have leaner tones. I'm very familiar with 5998, 7236 and 6520 tones. Mullard 6080 as well. This gives me a good idea how a combo will sound.
  
 I've often paired C3G with 5998 and 6520 to a lesser degree. Today's the first time I tried C3G with 7236 and I'm enjoying it with my modded HD650 as well. Should go well with HD800S or a stock HD650.
  
 Fresh aire sounded like fresh air.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Spending much time with my power and driver tubes helps. I know their sound signatures well. Some tubes are warm, others are more neutral or bright. Some have more bloom, others have leaner tones. I'm very familiar with 5998, 7236 and 6520 tones. Mullard 6080 as well. This gives me a good idea how a combo will sound.
> 
> I've often paired C3G with 5998 and 6520 to a lesser degree. Today's the first time I tried C3G with 7236 and I'm enjoying it with my modded HD650 as well. Should go well with HD800S or a stock HD650.
> 
> Fresh aire sounded like fresh air.


 
 Thanks. It really does go well with the S. I'm listening to this right now with that combo, just in case anyone is still sleeping


----------



## geetarman49

pctazhp said:


> Like the beautiful Mannheim Steamroller videos this is music to soothe the soul. Sorry no zombies




  
 guys ... i'm not all zombies; rodrigo's concierto has been a mainstay in my classical collection for many decades -- still is.
  
 but on monday eve, i'm off for some death jazz via:
  
 
  
 hahaha ... the trumpeter's name is tabu zombie ...
  
 & i also dig:


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Have a question for all you smart folks out here.  Years ago I was told that you ran your preamp full out and controlled volume with the main amp.  Is that still true?  I have not tried that yet, but it seems like a good idea, as the Elise has no remote, and I get lazy sometimes.  If this works with out harm to the Elise or tube life, I could move them farther away and use a better setup.


 
  
 Glad to hear the music is helping, cf...soothes on many different levels indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know some appear to have no trouble running at full vol for preamp, but in my own case I begin to get distortion much beyond 12 o'clock...so it's a case of "suck it and see", it would appear....presumably therefore depends on the power amp used?
  


oskari said:


> My system (Rega DAC, HD 600) exhibits very civilized treble and I'm a big fan of the C3g.


 
  
 Glad you like the C3g, O...yours are the Lorenz, no? These seem to have slightly less treble emphasis than the Siemens, from my own experience. But both are first class tubes IMHO (Glenn rates them highly also...as does @UntilThen...and others, I'm sure!
  


pctazhp said:


> Thanks for your detailed description. I actually own a pair of short bottle original issue TS6SNT-GTBs and my experience is similar to yours. We pay a lot of attention here to various power combos, but *I think the drivers can make a bigger difference in most cases.*


 
 Most in tubedom would agree with that, pct. The powers seem to be more dependent on total system synergy, as far as _big_ differences are concerned...but I could well be mistaken, lol!


----------



## connieflyer

ARANJUEZ one of my all time favorites, I have many versions of this, first time hearing Rodrigo play it, very nice indeed.


----------



## pctazhp

The only zombies I ever cared about were the ones that SMG slayed. Oh wait!! Those were vampires


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Glad you like the C3g, O...yours are the Lorenz, no? These seem to have slightly less treble emphasis than the Siemens, from my own experience. But both are first class tubes IMHO (Glenn rates them highly also...as does @UntilThen
> ...and others, I'm sure!




I also have a Valvo-branded C3g/s pair (presumably made by Siemens) from A123. I believe UT has the same. I entirely believe that these valves could be too bright for my taste in the wrong system.


----------



## oshipao

Hey y'all!

Did get my Elise back late last week but have not had the time to listen to her before today. Man does it sound sweet! And the knob is perfect this time around (doing aome more volume adjusting just formthe fun of it). I think I need some new phones. T1 vs HD800S - Pros/cons (I know we might have been through this before but I want to hear it again... objectively). Beacuse the soundstage is to short. I need some depth!

Listening to Van Morrison on vinyl bought today right now, really good


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=90Ud1e423i0[/VIDEO]


----------



## HOWIE13

oshipao said:


> Hey y'all!
> 
> Did get my Elise back late last week but have not had the time to listen to her before today. Man does it sound sweet! And the knob is perfect this time around (doing aome more volume adjusting just formthe fun of it). I think I need some new phones. T1 vs HD800S - Pros/cons (I know we might have been through this before but I want to hear it again... objectively). Beacuse the soundstage is to short. I need some depth!
> 
> Listening to Van Morrison on vinyl bought today right now, really good


 
  
 Good to hear all is well.
  
 After your experience the first thing I did when I got my Elise out of the packing was to check the vol knob!


----------



## oshipao

howie13 said:


> Good to hear all is well.
> 
> After your experience the first thing I did when I got my Elise out of the packing was to check the vol knob!




Yes, I am pleased  Glad you did not have the same issue. Could be damage in transport, don't really know what caused it. But all that matters is that she works as she should now.
What music are you mainly listening to?


----------



## HOWIE13

oshipao said:


> Yes, I am pleased
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Pretty well all Classical-mostly Baroque, and Elise really teases out the complex instrumental lines. Sweet and clear.
 You have lots of joy to look forward to.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I also have a Valvo-branded C3g/s pair (presumably made by Siemens) from A123. I believe UT has the same. I entirely believe that these valves could be too bright for my taste in the wrong system.


 
@whirlwind seems to think Valvos are rebranded Siemens too. What makes you think they are made by Siemens gentlemen? Just curious. 
  
 According to this source, Telefunken and Siemens have the S printed on the box but Valvo is the only one to have it stamped on the tube.
 http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/C3g/C3g-C3m-info.html
  
 C3G/s is still sounding good on my setup on the 2nd day. Paired with Tung Sol 7236 it's got that sparkle and oomph listening to Jeff Beck 'A Change is Gonna Come', a Sam Cooke classic.
  
 I have the Lorenz C3G too but have not spend time doing a comparison between the Lorenz and Valvo.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Hey y'all!
> 
> Did get my Elise back late last week but have not had the time to listen to her before today. Man does it sound sweet! And the knob is perfect this time around (doing aome more volume adjusting just formthe fun of it). I think I need some new phones. T1 vs HD800S - Pros/cons (I know we might have been through this before but I want to hear it again... objectively). Beacuse the soundstage is to short. I need some depth!


 
 It's not just comparison between T1 and HD800S. You have to decide whether it's Gen 1 or Gen 2 you want from both headphones.
  
 I've not heard T1 G2 before so I can't comment on that.
  
 I have heard the HD800 and HD800S back to back at a meet though, through a Metrum Hex and Woo Audio Wa2. HD800S is warmer and fuller on the bass and mids. Treble is less pronounced. HD800 has great pin-point imaging, sweet sound, crystal clear high notes and details galore.
  
 Next I heard the HD800S on a Audio Gd Master Series 6 and Audio Gd amp in balanced mode which has a lighter, leaner presentation. I like the HD800S in this setup.
  
 The Senns soundstage is much wider but the Beyer isn't that much far behind. Both headphones will give you good soundstage especially compared to your HD650.
  
 These are the 2 setups I heard it on.

  

  
T1 G1 vs HD800
 T1 more vivid. Has bite. Bass tighter and more impactful. More energised. HD800 seems more relaxed. Soundstage wider. Mid range more engaging. Bass is there but have a different tone.
  
 I could live with either headphones on Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Love this version. Jeff Beck and ZZ Top.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Glad you like the C3g, O...yours are the Lorenz, no? These seem to have slightly less treble emphasis than the Siemens, from my own experience. But both are first class tubes IMHO (Glenn rates them highly also...as does @UntilThen...and others, I'm sure!


 
 The problem is I like all my tubes on Elise too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's like deciding who's going to win Euro 2016. Who knows !
  
 Go Wales ! Gareth Bale !


----------



## connieflyer

Here is a talented young violinist


----------



## oshipao

untilthen said:


> It's not just comparison between T1 and HD800S. You have to decide whether it's Gen 1 or Gen 2 you want from both headphones.
> 
> I've not heard T1 G2 before so I can't comment on that.
> 
> ...




Hi UT,

I appreciate the extensive input. Will give it some thought. What's the genereal consensus between gen 1 vs 2? I do not like bright treble, and my HD600 seems quite right in that area (for me). The original HD800 has always scared me off beacuse of bright, sharp, sibilant etc.


----------



## UntilThen

oshipao said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I appreciate the extensive input. Will give it some thought. What's the genereal consensus between gen 1 vs 2? I do not like bright treble, and my HD600 seems quite right in that area (for me). The original HD800 has always scared me off beacuse of bright, sharp, sibilant etc


 
 I don't have a problem with treble brightness on Gen 1 of both headphones fortunately. With a tube amp, they present a perfect tone for me.
  
 However you can't go wrong with Gen 2 on both those headphones too. You just have to get the right synergy with the rest of your setup and tube choices. HD800S is very expensive in Australia at $2500. T1 G1 has been discontinued and it's getting hard to get a good pair.


----------



## DavidA

oshipao said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I appreciate the extensive input. Will give it some thought. What's the genereal consensus between gen 1 vs 2? I do not like bright treble, and my HD600 seems quite right in that area (for me). The original HD800 has always scared me off beacuse of bright, sharp, sibilant etc.


 
 I've found that the spikes in the HD-600 (4-5khz) and HD-800 (6khz) are at different frequencies, the HD-600 bothers me on some tracks while I've never had a problem with the HD-800, T1g1 or HD-700, only way to find out is to try and see.
  
 The HD-800S sounds better on a SS amp to me while the HD-800 is better with tubes due to how they were tuned.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> The HD-800S sounds better on a SS amp to me while the HD-800 is better with tubes due to how they were tuned.


 
 My thoughts too. 
  
 However your choice of tubes can make the HD800S sound great on a tube amp too. @pctazhp can share that. He has HD800S and Elise. I can see his head bobbing from here.


----------



## hypnos1

oshipao said:


> Hey y'all!
> 
> Did get my Elise back late last week but have not had the time to listen to her before today. Man does it sound sweet! And the knob is perfect this time around (doing aome more volume adjusting just formthe fun of it). I think I need some new phones. T1 vs HD800S - Pros/cons (I know we might have been through this before but I want to hear it again... objectively). Beacuse the soundstage is to short. I need some depth!
> 
> Listening to Van Morrison on vinyl bought today right now, really good


 
  
 That's great news oshipao...now you can do some SERIOUS listening, lol!
  
 Re. HPs...._objectively?!!_...nigh on impossible, I should think! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Even if you search round ALL the opinions out there, it's got to be extremely tricky indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...you've just GOT to try and demo them _*at length*_...but even then one's impression can change after a week or so LOL! And such a personal thing, alas...
  
 All I can say is that I love the T1's (Gen 1) soundstage...but that too will alter depending on tubes used, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(even so, these cans sound good to me _*whatever*_ tubes are in situ...). And I think there are a good few here who would agree. I suppose another factor could well be how good a deal you can get on _price_...
  
 Whatever, either would appear to bring out the best in Elise...marriages truly made in Heaven, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so I wish you the best of luck...(but don't take too long deliberating...you owe yourself that extra bit of magic - which applies to everyone else out there contemplating the next equipment upgrade...you only live  once!!...DO IT!!! )...CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> The problem is I like all my tubes on Elise too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...never mind_ football_...MUCH trickier WAS in or out of the EU? - and to my utter amazement the British Public have voted OUT. Now the fun begins, and the vultures/hyenas/jackals will all be scrapping for our blood for having been so bold as to even dare _think_ about it, lol!! So it's interesting times ahead for a good long while now until things (hopefully!) settle down....thank goodness I have Elise to soothe the fevered brow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> @whirlwind seems to think Valvos are rebranded Siemens too. What makes you think they are made by Siemens gentlemen? Just curious.




It's common belief that all the shiny black ones were made by Siemens.


----------



## connieflyer

Do you suffer from "skin orgasms"?                http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-look-what-happens-brain-when-music-causes-chills-180959481/?utm_source=facebook.com&no-ist


----------



## HOWIE13

Has anyone any experience of 6A6 tubes as drivers in Elise? 
  
 I'm sure I read they had been tried but can't find the post now.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Do you suffer from "skin orgasms"?                http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-look-what-happens-brain-when-music-causes-chills-180959481/?utm_source=facebook.com&no-ist


 

 Interesting article, and I do get the chills with 80's music, wine and the GF


----------



## connieflyer

Same here!


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Same here!


 

 Are you up late or up early?, its 2:50 in Hawaii, getting ready to go to sleep, still have a little wine in the bottle so GF is still listening with me: Starship, Chicago, Light House, The Motels, ZZ Top, Journey, Orleans, The Romantics, Billy Joel, A-Ha, Eagles, Foreigner, Pablo Cruise, Heart, Steely Dan, Steve Miller, Fleetwood Mac, Joan Jett, Scandal, Boston, Toto.


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Has anyone any experience of 6A6 tubes as drivers in Elise?
> 
> I'm sure I read they had been tried but can't find the post now.
> 
> Thanks.




Google search tip. Enter this.


```
site:head-fi.org elise 6a6
```


----------



## pctazhp

oshipao said:


> Hey y'all!
> 
> Did get my Elise back late last week but have not had the time to listen to her before today. Man does it sound sweet! And the knob is perfect this time around (doing aome more volume adjusting just formthe fun of it). I think I need some new phones. T1 vs HD800S - Pros/cons (I know we might have been through this before but I want to hear it again... objectively). Beacuse the soundstage is to short. I need some depth!


 
 I agree with @hypnos1 It is difficult to decide without a side-by-side comparison at home over several weeks. I had both for 30 days and my opinion changed over that time. I decided on the HD800S but it was a VERY close decision. Both are excellent and mate well with the Elise. I haven't heard either on a solid state amp, but I don't necessarily agree that the S is better with a solid state amp. It is great with the Elise with the proper tube combos.
  
 To try to describe differences is difficult because any words I choose probably suggest more of a difference than there actually is. But I'll try. To me, the T1 is cleaner, had tighter bass with more impact and has better individual localization of instruments within the soundstage. The S has a more expansive soundstage both laterally and depth, but still maintains good definition of the recording venue.
  
 The T1 is more aggressive than the S. The S is a little laid back in comparison. It is this last aspect that actually led to my decision. If my primary listening consisted of close attention to each recording I would have chosen the T1. It has more impact and because of its tight and strong bass, is more emotionally involving. However, most of my listening is done while I'm working at my computer or doing other things. Because the S is more relaxed it works better for me.
  
 I wish I could have both, and maybe someday I will. Hey. That's your answer. Get both


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Google search tip. Enter this.  Code:
> 
> ```
> site:head-fi.org elise 6a6
> ```


 
 Thanks for the search method.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I agree with @hypnos1 It is difficult to decide without a side-by-side comparison at home over several weeks. I had both for 30 days and my opinion changed over that time. I decided on the HD800S but it was a VERY close decision. Both are excellent and mate well with the Elise. I haven't heard either on a solid state amp, but I don't necessarily agree that the S is better with a solid state amp. It is great with the Elise with the proper tube combos.
> 
> To try to describe differences is difficult because any words I choose probably suggest more of a difference than there actually is. But I'll try. To me, the T1 is cleaner, had tighter bass with more impact and has better individual localization of instruments within the soundstage. The S has a more expansive soundstage both laterally and depth, but still maintains good definition of the recording venue.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually, on second thoughts folks, do NOT get both...spend the money on a tube DAC instead LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...will say no more!...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @geetarman49, on a different note...how's your research going on the Oled TVs?...am tempted but hate the thought of parting with my Panasonic Plasma! (Or at least would be if there was a 49/50 inch version, lol - can't convince "She who must be obeyed" about the larger 55+inch screens, alas!)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (Not totally irrelevant here as I use my TV as monitor for the media player in my Oppo BDP103, and boy I never realised the plasma was so NOISY...not until late night listening, at least!).


----------



## connieflyer

I am using my Panasonic 60" Viera for everything,  web use, music server, even use it as a tv!. works great. I have seen the larger screen oled's and at that price I may just get a good pair of binoculars and a small  screen!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I am using my Panasonic 60" Viera for everything,  web use, music server, even use it as a tv!. works great. I have seen the larger screen oled's and at that price I may just get a good pair of binoculars and a small  screen!


 
  
 I hear ya, cf...(60"?...WOW - no chance, with my good lady alas!). And those oleds sure are pricey...which is why I keep hoping for a 50" model to appear...in vain, no doubt!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## geetarman49

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @geetarman49, on a different note...how's your research going on the Oled TVs?...am tempted but hate the thought of parting with my Panasonic Plasma! (Or at least would be if there was a 49/50 inch version, lol - can't convince "She who must be obeyed" about the larger 55+inch screens, alas!)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yeah, plasmas have that very hi-freq squeal --- mostly unnoticeable until ...  but that's not what bothers me about plasmas ... it's the heat; otherwise they are frickin' great tvs.
 as for what is being produced today, i narrowed it down to 3 models - samsung ks8000/8500 series; lg uh8500 series & lg oled but the 2016 oled pricing for canada hasn't been released yet, to my knowledge.

 he who waffles ... gets burnt toast.  i had my eyes on the lg 60" uh8500 at costco, but thought i'd wait until the next day ....  mistake ... all gone or removed from inventory.
 now, only 55" & 75" left & you have to buy it with soundbar at a higher price.  the samsung ks8000 has a stunning picture rivalling that of oled in a number of areas -- but it has an absolutely horrible surface reflection unless you have a dark room. what with all the dark scenes in today's movies and tv series (got, tgfe, banshee ...) i don't know if i could live with that long term.
  
 bad news on elise front .... never happened to me before with anything imported.  it is being held by customs until i can provide declaration/invoice and value.  does feliks audio not include waybill with shipment??  or, they declared a suspiciously low value?   looks like this will be in limbo for another 2wks ... gahh!


----------



## DavidA

I have a 60" LED in my living room and I think its too small, its used as my second monitor when watching movies from my PC, also have a 46" in the bedroom (biggest that could fit on the stand that I built:


 The living room above, doesn't the 60" look small?


 The 46" in the bedroom, HTPC is behind the TV


----------



## geetarman49

davida said:


> I have a 60" LED in my living room and I think its too small, its used as my second monitor when watching movies from my PC, also have a 46" in the bedroom (biggest that could fit on the stand that I built:
> 
> 
> The living room above, doesn't the 60" look small?
> ...


 

 looks like you're seated no more than 5'-6' away from that 60" screen, no?   my current 52" sharp is about 12' from where i sit ... so kind of smallish.
 my existing audio rack is actually behind where i sit, so i'm always facing the tv regardless of whether listening to music or watching.


----------



## DavidA

geetarman49 said:


> looks like you're seated no more than 5'-6' away from that 60" screen, no?   my current 52" sharp is about 12' from where i sit ... so kind of smallish.
> my existing audio rack is actually behind where i sit, so i'm always facing the tv regardless of whether listening to music or watching.


 

 The picture of the 60" is deceptive due to the wide angle lens I used to fit everything in, my head is about 7'-6" from the screen, depends on how much I recline back.  One of the reasons a larger monitor would help with is that if sitting in the recliner its hard to read the text on the screen at times.  I use a wireless keyboard/touch pad to control the play back and volume so I can just sit back and enjoy.


----------



## UntilThen

Folks you're making my 55" Samsung LED looks small now.
  
@pctazhp I think you'll like this combo with your HD800S too. Mazda technology mind you. This bright sparkling tone will chase my winter blues away. It's 7 degrees at 9am ....


----------



## connieflyer

Only reason I was able to talk the wife into the 60 plama, was I assured her she would like it better for sports! And boy did it deliver.  I watched a hockey game with her one night, and finally I could keep up with where the puck was..  She loved it, it was her's and she allowed me to watch it now and then!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Folks you're making my 55" Samsung LED looks small now.
> 
> @pctazhp I think you'll like this combo with your HD800S too. Mazda technology mind you. This bright sparkling tone will chase my winter blues away. It's 7 degrees at 9am ....


 
 May have to wait to hear until I move in with.... I mean until I visit you!!! I think I have the adapters but not a clue where to find a Mazda 6N7G 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I called a local Mazda dealer but they said I sounded a little confused. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 7 degrees C ???? Nowhere within 1 or 2 light years of Scottsdale could be that cold right now!!!!
  
 Since this is turning into a high end TV monitor thread, does anyone want me to answer any questions about my 5-year old, 43 inch Vizio???  It's 3D, but the glasses that came with it are still in the box unopened


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> May have to wait to hear until I move in with.... I mean until I visit you!!! I think I have the adapters but not a clue where to find a Mazda 6N7G
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 3D stuff gave me a head ache after a few minutes


----------



## pctazhp

OK @UntilThen. My Favre 6N7Gs may not get the gas mileage (or do you say "petrol kilometerage"??) as your Mazdas, but they look pretty cool. The SQ?? Sweet, Intoxicating )))


----------



## UntilThen

Ummmm looks pretty good.

I can see the Valhalla 2 and Bifrost in the background. 

You know the Fivre ain't that much different from the Mazda and it's cousin the Visseaux. I have all of those.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm amazed at the Tung Sol 7236. It seems to pair well with any drivers. 
  
 This pair has DAT BASS, more weight and not afraid to flounce it.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Ummmm looks pretty good.
> 
> I can see the Valhalla 2 and Bifrost in the background.
> 
> You know the Fivre ain't that much different from the Mazda and it's cousin the Visseaux. I have all of those.


 
  
 I'm looking at the 6N7's.
 There's no pairs of coke bottle shaped ones on Ebay UK at present but a few straight bottle ones and quite a lot of metal ones.
 Is it possible to generalise about any sound differences between these differently shaped 6N7's?


----------



## UntilThen

6N7G is heavy weight ; 6N7GT is medium weight ; 6N7 is lite weight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's truth in that.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6N7G has a more full blown sound. 6N7GT is leaner, tighter sound, approaching 6SN7. 6N7 has the slimmest, clear and clinical sound.


----------



## DecentLevi

Guys I'll tell ya I've been enjoying what is by far and wide the biggest home-audio ride of my life, ever since I've gone with 6 power tubes in my Elise. Refinement in spades, sound that is _beyond _surreal and totally immersive '4D' sound. And things got even more impressive after using this setup as a preamp to my huge electrostat headphone setup - at times I was enjoying the soundtrack even more than the video, looking around to make sure I'm not in a real theatre with professional surround sound speakers. I even tried it as a line out to the Liquid Carbon and compared the sound of this setup in a seamless, rapid-succession A/B to its' direct line-in from the DAC, to which I noticed how remarkably true-to-life this setup really is. The tonality, warmth, etc. etc. were all absolutely identical to the original, except the soundstage was larger. And that's a good thing if you don't want too much sound coloration. But connected directly in the Elise, this sounded_ at least _3x better than the LC on balanced - instrument separation, soundstage, texture, imaging and lifelike presentation were on a whole other planet.
  
 Although a somewhat unconventional _looking _setup, the only difference from this to the 6BL7 + 6SN7 power setup was to replace the 6SN7's with dual 6J5 tubes via an adapter on both sides. This folks, is truly a *beauty in disguise*.
  
 Some asked if I have tried any more expensive top-tier power tubes. Well I'm just doing what I can on a budget for now, and never expected anything like this! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
 I do occasionally prefer a simpler power tube setup, when it comes to electronic music which doesn't call for so much soundstage. I'll tell ya though, anyone who is impressed with any tube combos from the Elise will be even more impressed when it comes to 6 power tubes - whether the above setup, or the 'official' 6 power tube adapter with external heat.


----------



## DecentLevi

Speaking of coloration, I've decided to get rid of my FDD20's. Multiple critical listening sessions revealed that these tubes (at least the RVC type on my system) sound a bit too artificially euphonic / tube coloration for my tastes. Here's the listing in case anyone wants it.
  
 Quote:


howie13 said:


> I'm looking at the 6N7's.
> There's no pairs of coke bottle shaped ones on Ebay UK at present but a few straight bottle ones and quite a lot of metal ones.
> Is it possible to generalise about any sound differences between these differently shaped 6N7's?


 
 Awesome Howie, you've got the dough and I've got the ears... (or maybe we both do). So I think I'll wait for your favored impressions of driver tubes, then please mention my name with the @ symbol so I hear ya.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> 6N7G is heavy weight ; 6N7GT is medium weight ; 6N7 is lite weight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's just the sort of useful information I was looking for. Thanks UT


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Awesome Howie, you've got the dough and I've got the ears... (or maybe we both do). So I think I'll wait for your favored impressions of driver tubes, then please mention my name with the @ symbol so I hear ya.


 
 Not sure about the dough. Every month I have to intercept the credit card bill before my wife sees it.
  
 I'm waiting to assess the 6N7's and the C3G's  as I think their clarity will suit my desires.


----------



## geetarman49

it's 3:30am & it's wet & windy and 11c.  since elise is stuck at customs, might as well continue yakkin' bout tvs.  60" lg is back on at costco, but they bundled it up with a soundbar & jacked the price $300cdn.  all things considered, this might be the one to join elise.


----------



## geetarman49

davida said:


> 3D stuff gave me a head ache after a few minutes


 

 have you tried the latest passive 3d?  i've heard it's very good.


----------



## DavidA

geetarman49 said:


> have you tried the latest passive 3d?  i've heard it's very good.


 
 I haven't tried any 3D stuff in the last two years, but I did try both active and passive back then, both were not good for me.
  
 My friend in Japan told me that a friend of his heard an Elise and compared it to a WA2, EC ZDS, and Liquid Glass with HD-800/S and T1g1.  Said the Elise with stock tubes is far better than the WA2 with stock tubes and about the equal of the EC ZDS (w/ Stock tubes) but with some high end tubes in both the WA2 and Elise he would take the WA2 due to it being a touch less grainy in the highs.  He also said that for the price the Elise is a super deal but no matter what tubes they used it will not get to the level of the EC ZDS (upgraded tubes) or Liquid Glass (with stock tubes).  After hearing this from my friend I think the Elise might just be my next amp since it compares with the EC ZDS that I've heard a few times which is 3x the price and I can still dream of the Liquid Glass.
  
 Now all I have to do is cut my wine shopping list in half for the next 2 months and I should be good.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ummmm looks pretty good.
> 
> I can see the Valhalla 2 and Bifrost in the background.
> 
> You know the Fivre ain't that much different from the Mazda and it's cousin the Visseaux. I have all of those.


 
 I keep hinting that I own the V2 hoping someone will PM me and offer to buy it ))))


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


>


 
 OK being a quiet Saturday I tried it since I have all the necessary tubes and adapters from those good old G1217 days.
  
 A quartet of Visseaux 6J5's plus RCA 6BL7's with Tung-Sol 6SN7's as drivers. Nice and clear and sound-stage is bigger than usual though not quite as big as you described. Very good though.
  
 Then changed the drivers to my two Bad Boys and the sound did open up and became very lush and smooth yet retained the detail, without any grain. Very nice indeed.
  
 What amazed me about this set -up is in-spite of all the adapters there was no hum or background noise whatsoever.
  
 Elise is so accommodating to our various needs. Wonderful amp.


----------



## oshipao

pctazhp said:


> I agree with @hypnos1
> It is difficult to decide without a side-by-side comparison at home over several weeks. I had both for 30 days and my opinion changed over that time. I decided on the HD800S but it was a VERY close decision. Both are excellent and mate well with the Elise. I haven't heard either on a solid state amp, but I don't necessarily agree that the S is better with a solid state amp. It is great with the Elise with the proper tube combos.
> 
> To try to describe differences is difficult because any words I choose probably suggest more of a difference than there actually is. But I'll try. To me, the T1 is cleaner, had tighter bass with more impact and has better individual localization of instruments within the soundstage. The S has a more expansive soundstage both laterally and depth, but still maintains good definition of the recording venue.
> ...




Thanks pctazhp!

Have you tried the HD6XX-series, if so how would you rate the soundstage between the three? I would love to try both (and own), but I think I am a one headphone guy. Will tinker some more before I jump at one of them.

Have a great Saturday!


----------



## pctazhp

oshipao said:


> Thanks pctazhp!
> 
> Have you tried the HD6XX-series, if so how would you rate the soundstage between the three? I would love to try both (and own), but I think I am a one headphone guy. Will tinker some more before I jump at one of them.
> 
> Have a great Saturday!


 
 Sorry oshipao. I haven't heard any of the HD6XX headphones. I know there are many highly satisfies users. Probably @UntiIThen is the best source of information on that. I guess my general thoughts are that Senn is a conservative company and doesn't willy-nilly introduce new models. I have to believe a great deal of work was involved in developing the HD800 phones that led to improvements over the HD6XX series.
  
 I too am mainly a one-headphone man. Here is what I can tell you for sure. Running the Elise with the C3G drivers and 7236 powers, the result with the HD800S is highly satisfying and gives me little cause, if any, to wish for something different. I don't mean to suggest there are not other combos that would work just as well or better. But until UT comes up with something better (or the thread members complete their fund raising to buy me a pair of the GECs) I'm standing pat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Wish you too a very nice Saturday )))


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> I haven't tried any 3D stuff in the last two years, but I did try both active and passive back then, both were not good for me.
> 
> My friend in Japan told me that a friend of his heard an Elise and compared it to a WA2, EC ZDS, and Liquid Glass with HD-800/S and T1g1.  Said the Elise with stock tubes is far better than the WA2 with stock tubes and about the equal of the EC ZDS (w/ Stock tubes) but with some high end tubes in both the WA2 and Elise he would take the WA2 due to it being a touch less grainy in the highs.  He also said that for the price the Elise is a super deal but no matter what tubes they used it will not get to the level of the EC ZDS (upgraded tubes) or Liquid Glass (with stock tubes).  After hearing this from my friend I think the Elise might just be my next amp since it compares with the EC ZDS that I've heard a few times which is 3x the price and I can still dream of the Liquid Glass.
> 
> Now all I have to do is cut my wine shopping list in half for the next 2 months and I should be good.


 
 It's interesting. I understand about the comment about slight grain in the highs with the Elise. To me that is not an issue. But more importantly, I did not hear any grain using the T1 Gen 2. Don't really know what that means, but just wanted to mention it.
  
 As for wine, I heard a discussion on the radio a few days ago about a double-blind wine taste test in which the top choice was a Walmart brand. In my drinking days, it was always quantity rather than quality that mattered.


----------



## DavidA

oshipao said:


> Thanks pctazhp!
> 
> Have you tried the HD6XX-series, if so how would you rate the soundstage between the three? I would love to try both (and own), but I think I am a one headphone guy. Will tinker some more before I jump at one of them.
> 
> Have a great Saturday!


 
 On a BH Crack sound stage of HD-600 is about the same as the HD-650 but the HD-600 sounds like its wider only because of the slightly brighter signature.  The HD-800 will seem extra wide compared to the HD-6XX, the HD-700 is between them but closer to HD-800.  The HD-800s seems like its a touch less than the HD-800 but it not like a easy thing to notice.
  
 I'm one who likes different headphones for different signatures, I'd find it really hard/impossible to have only one, plus I need to share with the GF.


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> On a BH Crack sound stage of HD-600 is about the same as the HD-650 but the HD-600 sounds like its wider only because of the slightly brighter signature.  The HD-800 will seem extra wide compared to the HD-6XX, the HD-700 is between them but closer to HD-800.  The HD-800s seems like its a touch less than the HD-800 but it not like a easy thing to notice.
> 
> I'm one who likes different headphones for different signatures, I'd find it really hard/impossible to have only one, plus I need to share with the GF.


 
 By the way, I didn't mean to slight you in referring @oshipao to @UntilThen regarding the HD6XX. I was thinking primarily of someone who already had an Elise. Start buying your wine at Walmart)))))
  
 My wife just laughs at my "bulbs" and this funny looking thing I wear on my head. She's iPhone and earbuds all the way


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> It's interesting. I understand about the comment about slight grain in the highs with the Elise. To me that is not an issue. But more importantly, I did not hear any grain using the T1 Gen 2. Don't really know what that means, but just wanted to mention it.
> 
> As for wine, I heard a discussion on the radio a few days ago about a double-blind wine taste test in which the top choice was a Walmart brand. In my drinking days, it was always quantity rather than quality that mattered.


 
 Grain to me is when the cymbal hit has a harsh sound rather than a nice smooth shimmer.
  
 One thing about doing blind tasting is the amount of experience and type of wine that the individual normally drinks.  I've done some blind tasting at home a few time and it was eye opening to some of the less experienced.  To me most will usually only open one bottle at a time and taste memory is about as bad or worst than audio memory.  I've been really lucky to have tried 8 to 10 different wines or even vertical tastings many times in the past at my friends father's house which has a wine cellar with 3-4k bottles.  Another thing that I noticed is the order that you try the different wines and how well you clean your pallet.  If you are eating it can play an even larger roll to your preferred taste.


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> By the way, I didn't mean to slight you in referring @oshipao to @UntilThen regarding the HD6XX. I was thinking primarily of someone who already had an Elise. Start buying your wine at Walmart)))))
> 
> My wife just laughs at my "bulbs" and this funny looking thing I wear on my head. She's iPhone and earbuds all the way


 
 Figured the part about someone having an Elise but the impressions will not change much if at all.  I've heard them all on the Liquid Glass and EC Balancing Act and its just the degree of differences that is difference.
  
 Your wife should see the EC Balancing Act, those really look like "bulbs"   Glad my GF also likes headphones versus ear buds, but then she is a little fashion snob and thinks any LCD series looks stupid on anyone, and she will give up sound quality for esthetics.


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Grain to me is when the cymbal hit has a harsh sound rather than a nice smooth shimmer.
> 
> One thing about doing blind tasting is the amount of experience and type of wine that the individual normally drinks.  I've done some blind tasting at home a few time and it was eye opening to some of the less experienced.  To me most will usually only open one bottle at a time and taste memory is about as bad or worst than audio memory.  I've been really lucky to have tried 8 to 10 different wines or even vertical tastings many times in the past at my friends father's house which has a wine cellar with 3-4k bottles.  Another thing that I noticed is the order that you try the different wines and how well you clean your pallet.  If you are eating it can play an even larger roll to your preferred taste.


 
 Your points regarding blind testing are very well taken. After I posted I kicked myself for even mentioning blind testing on an audio thread. It certainly is a trigger issue.
  
 I personally don't place any stock in audio blind tests for similar reasons you mention. The only thing that matters to me is what I like, and I am the only expert on that issue. But I have gained a lot of good information on this thread. Actually, as I have mentioned before, I just "blindly" follow whatever combos @UntilThen recommends ))))


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Figured the part about someone having an Elise but the impressions will not change much if at all.  I've heard them all on the Liquid Glass and EC Balancing Act and its just the degree of differences that is difference.
> 
> Your wife should see the EC Balancing Act, those really look like "bulbs"   Glad my GF also likes headphones versus ear buds, but then she is a little fashion snob and thinks any LCD series looks stupid on anyone, and she will give up sound quality for esthetics.


 
 Any girl who is not fashion conscious and doesn't care about esthetics is not worth ..... Oh never mind. I don't want to get myself in trouble ))))


----------



## connieflyer

I am looking for a music server, that has a screen that shows music info, file info and what not.  It needs to be usable with the Elise and a Dac, not need separte monitor to view files not a portable device and under $1500.  Getting lazy, want to just turn on Elise, Dac and a server and listen without needing pc.  Anyone of an opinion? Thanks


----------



## Suuup

Got my Fivre 6SN7.
  


  
 Have two of each.


----------



## geetarman49

suuup said:


> Got my Fivre 6SN7.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 look really nice .. good price?


----------



## geetarman49

connieflyer said:


> I am looking for a music server, that has a screen that shows music info, file info and what not.  It needs to be usable with the Elise and a Dac, not need separte monitor to view files not a portable device and under $1500.  Getting lazy, want to just turn on Elise, Dac and a server and listen without needing pc.  Anyone of an opinion? Thanks


 

 i have been considering and researching this for the past 2 yr now ... a dealer recently suggested melco.  not much of a display, but all info is on the remote (tab/pad), but it's still more than i want to spend - tho it might be within your budget.
  
 previously i considered foobar2k, jriver, musicbee and a few other players running under win10, but i gave up on those ... tho i still like using musicbee for tagging purposes.
 i've decided i will build my own using the free daphile environment ... running on something like atom, nuc or raspberry pi with remote tablet ... not much else decided at this point.


----------



## UntilThen

On the 5th day, I return to C3G again but this time I have the Lorenz instead of the Valvo. Difference between the C3G and C3G/s are minute, with the C3G a touch more relax on the high notes. That could be my brain interpreting the difference but I think I could discern the difference.
  
 I've also tried C3G/s with 4xGE 6BL7gtb and C3G/s with Tung Sol 5998. These are also very good combinations. I then tried a combo which I've heard before but just to get a refresher here. Sylvania 6SN7gtb as drivers and RCA 6SN7gtb and GE 6BL7gtb as powers. This has a very clean detail sound. I can see it appealing to @DecentLevi with his electronic music.
  
 My overall favorite, if I am in the mood for a brighter more sparkling tone amongst these 4 combinations is the Valvo C3G with Tung Sol 7236. There's an elevation in the sound registers with this combination. It's not just gain but overall euphony. My ears as usual with NAD d1050 and T1 g1. My music selections:- Master Female Audiophile 2005, The Hunter by Jennifer Warnes, The Four Seasons by Vivaldi.
  
 Enjoy your music and weekend. @DavidA this is a remarkable sounding tube amp and certainly worth giving up your wine for.


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 Re the 6N7 variants, IMHO the best sounding ones are the 6N7G (ST = Shoulder Type - aka Coke Bottle) shaped tubes, and the favorites are the Visseaux and Mazda and perhaps other European makes.
  
 The metal can 6N7 can be found very cheap - seems that no glass&glow does not have much appeal. I found that they sound very nice in combination with 6BL7/6BX7 as power tubes.
  
 The straight glass 6N7GT (GT = Glass Tube) did not sound as good to me.
  
 Hypnos1 made a suggestion that all the different ST type tubes are among the best sounding tubes as a rule, but there are always exceptions.....


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen, as much as I want to get the Elise, I'm also thinking of saving even more funds ($500-600/month) for the next 6-8 months to get a used Liquid Glass from a friend of my good friend in Japan, I got to listen and roll some tubes with it when I was there last Nov and fell in love with it, but sadly it was way out of my price range back then and even now it will take quite a few months for me to save up for it.  The guy also said he will include all the tubes that he has acquired for them as well (16 pairs @ about $2100 is his estimate and I do know there were some nice Tung-Sol 6SN7GT (2 sets), WE JAN 6SN7GT VT231 (2 sets), and Melz 6SN7GT hole plate (2 sets)) for $3500, what he paid for the amp alone.  He wasn't looking to sell it but since I showed so much interest in it he just made me a quick deal on the spot and said that he would honor the deal until I buy it or tell him to let it go if he gets a great offer, so its been 8 months now that I've been thinking of the Liquid Glass and then I run in to this darn Elise thread.  I know they say good thing come to those who wait but damn, 6-8 months seems like a really long time now that I've already wasted 8 months.


----------



## DecentLevi

That's interesting, I've certaintly never noticed harsh highs on my Elise. I really don't see how an amp which does pure analogue amplification, especially in such a simplified way as the Elise does it, to be able to produce highs in this way. I would think that's something more to do with your DAC.
  
Also @DavidA so ... (EDIT: I guess you don't have the Elise to compare to the Bottlehead)


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> Re the 6N7 variants, IMHO the best sounding ones are the 6N7G (ST = Shoulder Type - aka Coke Bottle) shaped tubes, and the favorites are the Visseaux and Mazda and perhaps other European makes.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Mordy
  
 It's hard to find the coke bottle pairs but I've ordered a couple of the others. It's just as well they take a week or two to reach the UK from the States otherwise I would be changing tubes every day and never getting used to anything.
  
 Have a good Sunday.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'll be interested to see how those 6N7's suit you. And per the 6J5 quartet + 6BL7 as powers setup you tried yesterday, I urge you to give it another go - this time with complex well mastered analogue recording and then see how impressive it is.
  
 Not wanting to veer too much into politics - but how are you taking yesterday's UK 'shake up' - celebrating or loathing?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> I'll be interested to see how those 6N7's suit you. And per the 6J5 quartet + 6BL7 as powers setup you tried yesterday, I urge you to give it another go - this time with complex well mastered analogue recording and then see how impressive it is.
> 
> Not wanting to veer too much into politics - but how are you taking yesterday's UK 'shake up' - celebrating or loathing?


 
  
 Hi DL
  
 Firstly politics; well I'm not at all happy with the result, mainly because it will complicate buying Hi-Fi stuff from Europe as far as taxes are concerned. It's so easy at present. Just as well I bought Expressivo and Elise in time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 The one hope is Scotland will go independent and rejoin Europe. All speculative but quite exciting, if turbulent  times ahead.
  
 Anyway with Elise to sooth me who cares.
  
 Now about the recent set-up.
  
 I do really like it, it's just I'm being a bit reserved while I try different genres and tubes. I think it's a great combination.
 It also provides a silent background, even with my HD598 and X2, both notorious hummers.
  
 The Drivers I like best are 'Bad Boys'- far and away the richest 6SN7 I've tried so far, yet maintaining excellent detail and imaging.
  
 I wouldn't say it was a huge sound-stage with the type of music I play, but it is realistically wide, high and especially deep, providing a wonderful solid tapestry of sound- very vinyl/analogue in smoothness and control at all frequencies and at any volume. I noticed this particularly with energetic choral singing. Vocals in general are particularly good.
  
 Just to show the combo is still in use here's a recent photo.


----------



## connieflyer

@david A, that offer with all the tubes, would be an incredible deal. A definite upgrade over elise. Very nice opportunities to get a jump start on tube rolling as well. Myself,I would go for it.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> @david A, that offer with all the tubes, would be an incredible deal. A definite upgrade over elise. Very nice opportunities to get a jump start on tube rolling as well. Myself,I would go for it.


 

 My problem is I'm not very good at saving, what's been happening lately is that I'll save $1500 or so and then my friend in LA or the other one in SF lets me know about a great deal on some wine or the GF wants to take a inter island trip to play golf or visit my best friend on the Big Island since he and his father have one of the best collection of wines that I've seen.  My friends dad took a liking to my GF the last time we were in Hilo and he let her drink some wines that were once in a life time stuff: 1959 Chateau Haut-Brion, 1961 Chateau Margaux, 1963 Chateau Lafite Rothschild and 1982 Opus One (first year). 
  
 To be honest, I would also chose spending the money on the trip and drinking those great wines and cooking some great dishes to go with the wines.  Maybe because I'm getting older I sometimes feel that I need to either do it now or get it now since I might not be around for long.  On a happier note, there is an interesting story to the vintages of those wines: 1959, when my friends parents were married, 1961, when my friend Bradley was born, and 1963, when their daughter Sherri was born.
  
 My apologies to all that think alcohol is bad or don't drink.
  
 And with this long winded post I will be turning in for the night, the GF is asking when I'm coming to bed so good night to all and keep enjoying the music


----------



## UntilThen

My Elise is 8 months old today, alive and kicking well. Not a glitch. Running with C3G and 5998, I couldn't think of a reason to upgrade. It's so versatile with so many tubes and does a great job with various headphones plus it's great as a preamp. At $649(what I paid for), it's well worth it.
  
 Cheers to all. Happy listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Ps... @hypnos1  thanks for this little gem.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> My Elise is 8 months old today, alive and kicking well. Not a glitch. Running with C3G and 5998, I couldn't think of a reason to upgrade. It's so versatile with so many tubes and does a great job with various headphones plus it's great as a preamp. At $649(what I paid for), it's well worth it.
> 
> Cheers to all. Happy listening.
> 
> ...


 
 Couldn't agree more. I've only had mine for 12 days and I couldn't be happier and I haven't even bought a 5998 yet.


----------



## connieflyer

Buy then you have not heard the Liquid Glass


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Buy then you have not heard the Liquid Glass


 
 The best any most of us Elise owners can do is relate our own experience and level of satisfaction. Except for some rare fanatics here on HeadFi, most people haven't owned enough different amps for extended period of time to really compare side by side 2 or more amps that are appropriate for comparison. Just like headphones, it is often difficult to make comparisons without benefit of home comparison over a period of weeks, if not months.
  
 Even for those who do own multiple amps that seem appropriate for comparison, I suspect most just don't want to be bothered. I think the comparison I did between the Elise and Valhalla 2 is one of the most detailed comparisons that has been done between the Elise and another amp. It was not an easy project and candidly didn't generate much interest. I wouldn't try something like that again.
  
 I love my Elise and would never consider spending $3500 on an amp, even if the deal included an extra girl friend - especially considering the present value of future gf expense involved))) But I would never spend what many people are willing to spend on cars, homes, clothes, jewelry, wine or other consumer items. That doesn't mean I have anything against those who do. They keep the economy going, and provide us all with fun things to see and read about.
  
 I think decisions like the one @DavidA is facing often boil down to gut level, emotional decisions - no matter how much we try to tell our selves we are making rational choices. If I were David and had spent so much time thinking about the Liquid Glass as he appears to have, I think I would always wonder what might have been if I turned down the deal.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> Couldn't agree more. I've only had mine for 12 days and I couldn't be happier and I haven't even bought a 5998 yet.


 
 Just buy a pair of C3Gs, pair of adapters, pair of 7236s and be done with it


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Maybe because I'm getting older I sometimes feel that I need to either do it now or get it now since I might not be around for long.


 
 Life is short for sure. So go for the gusto and all that. But which gusto???? Good luck deciding


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> Just buy a pair of C3Gs, pair of adapters, pair of 7236s and be done with it


 
 Yay yay yay I've done it. Both tubes on their way.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> Yay yay yay I've done it. Both tubes on their way.


 
 Feel free to flame me unmercifully if they don't work out for you, but I think you will really like them))))


----------



## pctazhp

Does it get any better than this???? It became a "phonograph record"


----------



## DecentLevi

Elise is from Poland - no wonder this song sounds so exquisite on her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
Neon Indian - Polish Girl (2011)

  
 Warsaw


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Buy then you have not heard the Liquid Glass


 
 Hope to hear one at the London CanJam in August.
  
 Would cost about $4500 to purchase from the UK.


----------



## connieflyer

It is like comparing a top of the line Volkswagen to a Bentley Cornish.  They both are good and will get you where you want to go, but it is how you get there while in transit.  Gets a little old having members keep saying this Elise hits above it's price class, it is better than Xanadu , even equal to Liquid Glass, or maybe even better! You would have to go to Jupiter to find something better, B.S.   It is a great amp for the price and it's abilities are many, but let,s get real.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> It is like comparing a top of the line Volkswagen to a Bentley Cornish.  They both are good and will get you where you want to go, but it is how you get there while in transit.  Gets a little old having members keep saying this Elise hits above it's price class, it is better than Xanadu , even equal to Liquid Glass, or maybe even better! You would have to go to Jupiter to find something better, B.S.   It is a great amp for the price and it's abilities are many, but let,s get real.


 
 I'm sure it's a wonderful experience to listen to LG.
 There are presumably other expensive tube HA's too which are as good or better.
 I've never been to a HiFi meeting before and I'm really looking forward to London.


----------



## connieflyer

This is the tube amp you need to listen to


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> This is the tube amp you need to listen to




  
  
 Awsome, OMG it was going to combust.
  
 Must look out for one of those at the CanJam 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Love that music too..


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> It is like comparing a top of the line Volkswagen to a Bentley Cornish.  They both are good and will get you where you want to go, but it is how you get there while in transit.  Gets a little old having members keep saying this Elise hits above it's price class, it is better than Xanadu , even equal to Liquid Glass, or maybe even better! You would have to go to Jupiter to find something better, B.S.   It is a great amp for the price and it's abilities are many, but let,s get real.


 
 One of the things that has always fascinated me about consumer pursuit of audio nirvana is the almost unlimited variation in the SQ of different recordings - often even within the same album. The variations in recording venue, mike placement, cables and electronics used and the post recording mixing is mind boggling. Then throw into that the wide variety of sources and headphones we all use.
  
 I am sure that most designers and manufacturers of super buck amps are dedicated to the pursuit of perfection. If it was just money, seems to me there are far more efficient ways of making money than trying to compete in a very narrow niche market. But as I have said before, there seems to be very little information from the manufactures themselves or others as to what they are actually trying to achieve with their super expensive designs let alone how they achieve it. Sure, they may need to protect trade secrets, but car manufacturers seem to promote unique engineering approaches without worrying too much about trade secrets.
  
 With the Elise, I have been taken to that transcendental place of audio orgasmic experience that rests beyond the moon, Jupiter and the stars. But it was primarily the performers and recording engineers that got me there. I have been to that same place with my Valhalla 2 and even my Aune T1 SE before that using my HD598s - but not nearly as often as with the Elise and the HD800S. 
  
 Am I a less critical listener than those who own the super buck amps? I'm sure I am. I'm 71 years old and sure my hearing has deteriorated since the days I could enjoy my super buck speakers and amps feed by big buck turntables and preamps. Also at this point in my life I don't have the disposable income I once had to search out, audition and buy the "very best".
  
 But, the Elise has allowed me to find a tube combo that works with my HD800S with just about all recordings. It has allowed to refocus on the music and take equipment out of the equation for me. It does everything I need and want.


----------



## connieflyer

You think that is awesome check this out in 360 degrees  Great videos to inspire you, I remember when I was a kid, you could see things like this, and the Northern Lights from my house, now we are lucky if we can see the moon and a few stars.
  
http://www.utah3d.net/utah-travel/southern-utah/red-canyon-milky-way.html


----------



## Insidious Meme

C'mon guys. Help a bro out.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/806926/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-july-16-2016-wikia-hq/270#post_12681308


----------



## UntilThen

insidious meme said:


> C'mon guys. Help a bro out.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/806926/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-july-16-2016-wikia-hq/270#post_12681308


 

 That's sad. There's a 2 years warranty so I see no reason why this shouldn't be referred to Feliks Audio. They're the best people to help in this scenario, don't you think?
  
 Elise does not just get into problems suddenly if you use it in accordance with the manufacturers recommended usage. Don't go over bonkers with using so many adapters and certainly don't overheat it.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Lately you have been using the TS 7236. Could you tell me the difference in sound compared to the Mullard 6080? I assume that the 7326 is more neutral sounding and the Mullard warmer sounding. The question I have is if it is worth getting the 7236 if I already have the Mullard?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Lately you have been using the TS 7236. Could you tell me the difference in sound compared to the Mullard 6080? I assume that the 7326 is more neutral sounding and the Mullard warmer sounding. The question I have is if it is worth getting the 7236 if I already have the Mullard?


 

 On the contrary, the Mullard 6080 has a leaner more clinical tone. I suspect most 6080 do. C3G and Mullard 6080 presents the most pin point imaging and focus. May not be to everyone's liking but if your system needs some brightness, that's the combo to go for. I have no objections to using it though. Sounded very detail.
  
 Best way to describe the 7236 - it's a 5998 with a leaner tone, more agile and a tighter more impactful bass. Gain is similar to 5998. It's louder than 6080 and produce less heat. More layers and texture than a 6080. I do like C3G with 7236.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> You think that is awesome check this out in 360 degrees  Great videos to inspire you, I remember when I was a kid, you could see things like this, and the Northern Lights from my house, now we are lucky if we can see the moon and a few stars.
> 
> http://www.utah3d.net/utah-travel/southern-utah/red-canyon-milky-way.html


 
 Lovely videos to watch with music.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Lovely videos to watch with music.


 

 I was doing the same. Listen to some lush atmospheric music and view the pictures. Thanks for the link @connieflyer


----------



## HOWIE13

insidious meme said:


> C'mon guys. Help a bro out.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/806926/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-july-16-2016-wikia-hq/270#post_12681308


 
 I'm sure I've read Feliks Audio are to have an agent in the USA this summer. Maybe if it can't be readily fixed they would deal with the problem or send it back to Poland.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> One of the things that has always fascinated me about consumer pursuit of audio nirvana is the almost unlimited variation in the SQ of different recordings - often even within the same album. The variations in recording venue, mike placement, cables and electronics used and the post recording mixing is mind boggling. Then throw into that the wide variety of sources and headphones we all use.
> 
> I am sure that most designers and manufacturers of super buck amps are dedicated to the pursuit of perfection. If it was just money, seems to me there are far more efficient ways of making money than trying to compete in a very narrow niche market. But as I have said before, there seems to be very little information from the manufactures themselves or others as to what they are actually trying to achieve with their super expensive designs let alone how they achieve it. Sure, they may need to protect trade secrets, but car manufacturers seem to promote unique engineering approaches without worrying too much about trade secrets.
> 
> ...


 
 That makes a lot of sense to me.
  
 I have only had one spine tingling, hair standing on end experience listening to music and that was with what would be regarded as a fairly modest speaker set-up years ago while listening to one particular recording.
  
 I think enjoyment of music depends on a lot more than just the sound being produced. For me, my frame of mind at the time and listening environment count for a lot too.
  
 The daughter of a friend of mine is researching psychoacoustics and haptics and the way environmental factors affect performers reaching out to their audience is fascinating.
  
 Whilst I guess I strive for the 'live event' in my listening I must say I have become more and more disenchanted with going to live Classical concerts since using better headphone kit.
 I've become intolerant of people talking, coming in late, moving their heads in front of me, rustling of sweet and candy wrappers, coughing, etc etc. I never purchase recordings of live performances any more because of the intrusive coughing.
  
 Maybe attempting to emulate the real live performance is expecting too much of recorded sound-I don't know.
  
 Anyway, I can avoid all these distractions as well as having the best seat in the house when I'm at home, especially in the company of Feliks Audio. 
  
 Or maybe I'm just getting lazy!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> On the contrary, the Mullard 6080 has a leaner more clinical tone. I suspect most 6080 do. C3G and Mullard 6080 presents the most pin point imaging and focus. May not be to everyone's liking but if your system needs some brightness, that's the combo to go for. I have no objections to using it though. Sounded very detail.
> 
> Best way to describe the 7236 - it's a 5998 with a leaner tone, more agile and a tighter more impactful bass. Gain is similar to 5998. It's louder than 6080 and produce less heat. More layers and texture than a 6080. I do like C3G with 7236.


 
 UT: I very much agree with you. Thanks for introducing me to the 7236, for selling me a pair - I feel very special having a pair once touched by the master )))) - and thanks for turning me on to the C3G/7236 combo.


----------



## pctazhp

Yeah. Vinyl really sucks. So compressed and lacking in dynamics!!!!
  

  
  
 Toni Tennille. I saw her live after she and The Captain stopped appearing together. What a goddess!!! What a life: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/03/21/toni-tennille-never-cheated-on-captain.html


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Thanks for the comparison. I do not need more brightness in my system. Using the Elise as a preamp, I get the best results by setting my tone controls to 30% treble and 75% bass.
  
 The past two weeks I am using the EL3N as drivers and 6BL7GTA/6SN7GTB as power tubes, without any need for external power.


----------



## connieflyer

Using the Elise as a pre amp I have the tone controls on defeat on the main amp and roll in different tubes to achieve different sound.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> It's like deciding who's going to win Euro 2016. Who knows !
> 
> Go Wales ! Gareth Bale !




Look at Iceland! Way to go!


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Using the Elise as a pre amp I have the tone controls on defeat on the main amp and roll in different tubes to achieve different sound.


 
 That's much more fun.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Look at Iceland! Way to go!


 
 Just heard the result-  YAY- GO ICELAND!


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Look at Iceland! Way to go!


 

 That's a shock ! Didn't expect Iceland to progress this far. They are in the quarterfinals to play France !


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Thanks for the comparison. I do not need more brightness in my system. Using the Elise as a preamp, I get the best results by setting my tone controls to 30% treble and 75% bass.
> 
> The past two weeks I am using the *EL3N as drivers and 6BL7GTA/6SN7GTB as power tubes*, without any need for external power.


 
 I hear you Mordy. That combination sounds good and Elise remains very cool.


----------



## Suuup

I have to say, using your warranty after doing such wild modifications does not seem fair to me. 
  

  
 Even though my Elise seems to be fine after my use of 6C33C, I consider the warranty void as I have absolutely gone far off of what is 'fair' under warranty.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll comment no further on that. DL's probably in deep agony. I'm in deep agony looking at that photo.


----------



## mordy

This is a true story:
  
  A little boy comes into a shoe store and insists on taking a shoe that is too small. The salesperson and the mother try to talk him out of it to no avail. Finally the mother asks: Why do you want to take a shoe that is too small - it's not good for you.
  
 Answers the little boy: _People cannot see how it feels, only how it looks._
  
 So, in DL's defense, I am going to paraphrase:
  
*People cannot see how it sounds, only how it looks.*
  
 The above comments are not meant to disparage anyone. For some of us aesthetics are very important, for others Frankenstein set-ups are just fine if they sound good. We are all different, and we have to respect that we are.
  
 Viva la difference!


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> This is a true story:
> 
> A little boy comes into a shoe store and insists on taking a shoe that is too small. The salesperson and the mother try to talk him out of it to no avail. Finally the mother asks: Why do you want to take a shoe that is too small - it's not good for you.
> 
> ...


 
 It's not about the looks though. I am fine with people experimenting with stuff and running crazy setups. It's fun. However, when **** starts coming down, you shouldn't expect a Polish amp-making family to pay. Sure, they could probably offer to repair it for a fee, but ultimately, making these (lovely) frankenstein-setups are not 'proper use' of the product, and as such, it's your own responsibility.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> I have to say, using your warranty after doing such wild modifications does not seem fair to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Even though my Elise seems to be fine after my use of 6C33C, I consider the warranty void as I have absolutely gone far off of what is 'fair' under warranty.


 
  
 Feliks Audio's warranty specifically excludes shipping costs and since shipping  from N. America and back is likely to be far more expensive than the repair of a component like a resistor or capacitor it seems likely most buyers outside Europe will prefer to have their amplifier repaired locally anyway. 
  
 Also, I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but, in general, in Europe the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that misuse/abuse is the cause of the fault. 
  
 In practice, most businesses will give the benefit of the doubt to the customer, to maintain good customer relations, especially where the shipping costs, often more expensive than the repair, are excluded from the warranty anyway.


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> Feliks Audio's warranty specifically excludes shipping costs and since shipping  from N. America and back is likely to be far more expensive than the repair of a component like a resistor or capacitor it seems likely most buyers outside Europe will prefer to have their amplifier repaired locally anyway.
> 
> Also, I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but, in general, in Europe the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that misuse/abuse is the cause of the fault.
> 
> In practice, most businesses will give the benefit of the doubt to the customer, to maintain good customer relations, especially where the shipping costs, often more expensive than the repair, are excluded from the warranty anyway.


 
 Sure, it's possible that by hiding your misuse, you can get a free repair. As a man with a conscience though, I could never do that myself. Especially not to a small Polish family-owned business. 
  
 Quote:


decentlevi said:


> Thanks partner  In fact there were no explosions and it didn't seem to overheat, so I'm still speculating. I kept this 'on the DL' from the Elise thread so they won't attribute this to my recent tube combo creation (which I'm sure wasn't the cause). Man I'll tell ya though with this new setup on the Elise, I've been having by far and wide the best home-audio experience of my life - in a word, I chose "*transcendental*"!!! It still usable but really needs a fix. I could open it up once I find the right size screwdriver. This $699 OTL tube amp pushes well into summit-fi territory and I really think a lot of you would like it. But I have limited resources and am still hoping someone will offer a hand on this, thanks!



  
 Keeping it "on the DL" so we won't attribute this to the frankenstein?


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> It's not about the looks though. I am fine with people experimenting with stuff and running crazy setups. It's fun. However, when **** starts coming down, you shouldn't expect a Polish amp-making family to pay. Sure, they could probably offer to repair it for a fee, but ultimately, making these (lovely) frankenstein-setups are not 'proper use' of the product, and as such, it's your own responsibility.


 
 That's fair enough if the fault is due to misuse but your argument isn't fair to the buyer if the fault is not related to anything the owner has done.


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> That's fair enough if the fault is due to misuse but your argument isn't fair to the buyer if the fault is not related to anything the owner has done.


 
 Agree, if the fault is not related to anything the owner has done, of course a repair should be covered under warranty. In this case however, that frankenstein definitely falls under misuse.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> It's not about the looks though. I am fine with people experimenting with stuff and running crazy setups. It's fun. However, when **** starts coming down, you shouldn't expect a Polish amp-making family to pay. Sure, they could probably offer to repair it for a fee, but ultimately, making these (lovely) frankenstein-setups are not 'proper use' of the product, and as such, it's your own responsibility.


 
 Only if Frankenstein has caused the problem.


----------



## HOWIE13

In reality if I had such a problem, I would send it back, explaining the problem and all the tubes I had used, and then it's up to Feliks-Audio to decide what they want to do.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Yeah. Vinyl really sucks. So compressed and lacking in dynamics!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 This is good.  I start spinning my LPs again. Wait for it... with a simple but musical combo .... RCA 6SN7gtb and Chatham 6520. Elise can sound amazing with this standard setup.


----------



## DecentLevi

So now I guess that the 'cat's out of the bag' on a defect with noise from my Elise in the left channel. But how can you folks say with such assuredness that the problem was caused by the owner? No doubt just because of the height of my most recent tube combo. But this is nothing radical at all, and in fact it's electrically compatible all the way. The only difference electrically between the photo above (which has leaked around with my permission) and the dual 6BL7 and / or 6SN7 setup as powers setup, which is from an official adapter, is that one of the tubes on each side is taken out and replaced for a dual 6J5; which is electrically identical to a single 6SN7 (look it up). The only difference is that one sounds a lot better and is taller. Howie tried this same setup and without any adverse effects. You're judging a book by it's cover and I would definitely say this has absolutely NOTHING in the slightest to do with Frankenstein nor risky experiments. Do you see any wires on top of this setup? And what about the driver tubes - do you see anything awry here? I sure don't - these are the stock tube compliment.
  
 Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
  
 Speaking of community spirit, IMO everything has been driven by the Elise threads and their two quirks: the endless pursuit of the perfect tube combo, and the way we express ourselves about its' sound. For those of you who have been around since the beginning, especially the first Elise thread, you will see countless examples of so-called hyperbole and unreasonable metaphors to explain how great the Elise sounds. But I for one find those the highlight of the Elise threads - using bizarre metaphors, poems and even gross exaggerations to describe the sound of it. I don't find this to be 'unrealistic' or hype, but rather entertaining, helpful or even funny. It's our personality! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Next, how is anybody going to say that my 6x power tubes is so outlandish while there are others also with 6 power tubes on a massive adapter with external P/S and non-stock drivers? Seems a little biased to me. My whole pursuit of tube experimentation was from the pioneers of this thread who keep pushing the envelope - I'm just following in you guys' footsteps, and have not done anything that's electrically harmful at all.
  
 The point is one of common forum guidelines: respect each other's opinions and don't make statements without proof.


----------



## Suuup

decentlevi said:


> So now I guess that the 'cat's out of the bag' on a defect with noise from my Elise in the left channel. But how can you folks say with such assuredness that the problem was caused by the owner? No doubt just because of the height of my most recent tube combo. But this is nothing radical at all, and in fact it's electrically compatible all the way. The only difference electrically between the photo above (which has leaked around with my permission) and the dual 6BL7 and / or 6SN7 setup as powers setup, which is from an official adapter, is that one of the tubes on each side is taken out and replaced for a dual 6J5; which is electrically identical to a single 6SN7 (look it up). The only difference is that one sounds a lot better and is taller. You're judging a book by it's cover and I would definitely say this has absolutely NOTHING in the slightest to do with Frankenstein nor risky experiments. Do you see any wires on top of this setup? And what about the driver tubes - do you see anything awry here? I sure don't - these are the stock tube compliment.
> 
> Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
> 
> ...


 
 To be clear, I'm not attacking you, as (to my knowledge anyway) you don't intend to use the warranty. I'm also not talking about the sound at all. You have indeed followed in the footsteps of others -- others I also consider to have voided their warranty.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> So now I guess that the 'cat's out of the bag' on a defect with noise from my Elise in the left channel. But how can you folks say with such assuredness that the problem was caused by the owner? No doubt just because of the height of my most recent tube combo. But this is nothing radical at all, and in fact it's electrically compatible all the way. The only difference electrically between the photo above (which has leaked around with my permission) and the dual 6BL7 and / or 6SN7 setup as powers setup, which is from an official adapter, is that one of the tubes on each side is taken out and replaced for a dual 6J5; which is electrically identical to a single 6SN7 (look it up). The only difference is that one sounds a lot better and is taller. Howie tried this same setup and without any adverse effects. You're judging a book by it's cover and I would definitely say this has absolutely NOTHING in the slightest to do with Frankenstein nor risky experiments. Do you see any wires on top of this setup? And what about the driver tubes - do you see anything awry here? I sure don't - these are the stock tube compliment.
> 
> Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I, for one, am put off by review hyperbole. Stuff like, _'it sounded like I was right in front of the singer_, and  _'it was as if I was sitting next to the pianist on his bench'._
  
 Well, as I've previously pointed out I would not wish for a face full of singer's spittal showering me, nor could I think of a worse place to appreciate the sound of a grand piano than sitting next to the pianist. The piano is designed for the full flow of it's sound to emanate in a very different direction.
  
 We all have our own personalities and ways of expressing ourselves. If some people are irritated by particular posts they can ignore them, or argue against what the post states and not how the poster expresses himself.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> To be clear, I'm not attacking you, as (to my knowledge anyway) you don't intend to use the warranty. I'm also not talking about the sound at all. You have indeed followed in the footsteps of others -- others I also consider to have voided their warranty.


 
 Just to clarify-are you saying that even if the problem is shown to be nothing to do with any tube you would still regard the warranty as void?
  
 In other words, once you have done something 'out of the ordinary' you would consider a warranty void under any circumstances whatsoever.
  
 Just interested in your viewpoint.


----------



## Suuup

howie13 said:


> Just to clarify-are you saying that even if the problem is shown to be nothing to do with any tube you would still regard the warranty as void?
> 
> In other words, once you have done something 'out of the ordinary' you would consider a warranty void under any circumstances whatsoever.
> 
> Just interested in your viewpoint.


 
 If you can absolutely prove your frankenstein didn't cause any stress on the system, then sure, you should have you warranty. Saying "it's not over 7A" is not enough.


----------



## pctazhp

Seems to me the warranty issue boils down to whether someone would intentionally try to conceal use of the Elise beyond what FA recommends when seeking repair under the warranty. I'm not saying anyone has done that, but I think that is the theoretical issue we have been discussing. To my knowledge there is no "official" adapter. They are made in China by a lady unrelated to FA and have not been approved by FA, just as many of the tubes we use do not fall within those recommended by FA.
  
 As for choice of words, if we all justified the words we use by our own particular "personality" then words lose all meaning and effective communication is the loser.


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> If you can absolutely prove your frankenstein didn't cause any stress on the system, then sure, you should have you warranty. Saying "it's not over 7A" is not enough.


 
 Agreed..


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> Seems to me the warranty issue boils down to whether someone would intentionally try to conceal use of the Elise beyond what FA recommends when seeking repair under the warranty. I'm not saying anyone has done that, but I think that is the theoretical issue we have been discussing. To my knowledge there is no "official" adapter. They are made in China by a lady unrelated to FA and have not been approved by FA, just as many of the tubes we use do not fall within those recommended by FA.
> 
> As for choice of words, if we all justified the words we use by our own particular "personality" then words lose all meaning and effective communication is the loser.


 
  


pctazhp said:


> Seems to me the warranty issue boils down to whether someone would intentionally try to conceal use of the Elise beyond what FA recommends when seeking repair under the warranty. I'm not saying anyone has done that, but I think that is the theoretical issue we have been discussing. To my knowledge there is no "official" adapter. They are made in China by a lady unrelated to FA and have not been approved by FA, just as many of the tubes we use do not fall within those recommended by FA.
> 
> As for choice of words, if we all justified the words we use by our own particular "personality" then words lose all meaning and effective communication is the loser.


 
 That's true for more extreme use of language and the converse can also apply where we can't express ourselves adequately with English.
  
 I also miss with the written word the nuances of vocal expression which can make such a difference to meaning.


----------



## DavidA

decentlevi said:


> Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
> 
> Speaking of community spirit, IMO everything has been driven by the Elise threads and their two quirks: the endless pursuit of the perfect tube combo, and the way we express ourselves about its' sound. For those of you who have been around since the beginning, especially the first Elise thread, you will see countless examples of so-called hyperbole and unreasonable metaphors to explain how great the Elise sounds. But I for one find those the highlight of the Elise threads - using bizarre metaphors, poems and even gross exaggerations to describe the sound of it. I don't find this to be 'unrealistic' or hype, but rather entertaining, helpful or even funny. It's our personality!
> 
> ...


 
 While I admire your creativity and descriptions it also has the negative effect of making someone who is interested in the Elise wonder if the shipping product is "half-baked" due to all the so called better sounding combinations of tubes as another person noted a few days ago.  And since many of the so called "great" or "better than the original" combinations are done with adapters from a third party then one has to wonder if all of these combinations are so great, why doesn't FA just sell them as upgrades there by removing the issue of using non-approved adapters?
  
 One thing that would help someone like me would be to give a point of reference when making statements of sound quality, if you are only saying that x combination of tubes is better than y combination in the Elise then it mean nothing to me since I don't know what even the stock sound is like compared to another amp.  This is why when my friend said that he had a chance to listen to the Elise and roll some tubes with his friends I took more interest in the Elise since he compared it with other amps such as the WA2 and Liquid Glass so I have a better idea (reference points) of where the Elise stands.
  
 As for the warranty issue, just saying that if one person used non-standard tubes and didn't have any problems but you used the same combination and now have problems doesn't negate the fact that both were using non-standard/approved tubes and IMO should not be covered under warranty since the device was used outside of its original design parameters.


----------



## connieflyer

Actually, if you read the Elise document it says"Tubes can be changed by the user, the following table shows compatible alternatives"
 Power tubes
 Standard: 6AS7G (6N13S)
 Alternatives: 6080, 5998, 6N5P, 6N5S, ECC230, 7236, CV2523
 Driver tubes
 Standard: 6SN7
 Alternatives: 6N8S, CV181, ECC32, 5692, 6F8G
  
 It says nothing about "other tubes" never mentions that adapters are to be used, it never says they authorize any person or entity, to alter or change the circuit in any manner.
 It never says it "may be okay to go outside the parameters of the design with a margin of safety" it never mentions any alterations of the topography or circuitry. Pretty cut and dried.  I know a lot of tube rolling has been done, I have as well, but there are limits to what I would call a warranty repair.  You cannot verify the quality or accuracy of the adapters being used, may be fine, may not.  If they are off a small amount in tolerances, then they are additive to the whole circuit.  I have had adapters over the years, that were, let's say, less than perfect.
 To expect that just because you have adapters that will physically fit, it is no problem at all. Read the Feliks documentation, at no place does it say, they allow it or recommend adapters or tubes other than those specified.  If it is not mentioned in writing, that by purchasing the product you accept these conditions, then, anything done with the amp other than those recommended are not covered by warranty.  If it is not in writing , it is not implied. If you play with fire, sometimes you get burned.  Free will.


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> While I admire your creativity and descriptions it also has the negative effect of making someone who is interested in the Elise wonder if the shipping product is "half-baked" due to all the so called better sounding combinations of tubes as another person noted a few days ago.  And since many of the so called "great" or "better than the original" combinations are done with adapters from a third party then one has to wonder if all of these combinations are so great, why doesn't FA just sell them as upgrades there by removing the issue of using non-approved adapters?
> 
> One thing that would help someone like me would be to give a point of reference when making statements of sound quality, if you are only saying that x combination of tubes is better than y combination in the Elise then it mean nothing to me since I don't know what even the stock sound is like compared to another amp.  This is why when my friend said that he had a chance to listen to the Elise and roll some tubes with his friends I took more interest in the Elise since he compared it with other amps such as the WA2 and Liquid Glass so I have a better idea (reference points) of where the Elise stands.
> 
> As for the warranty issue, just saying that if one person used non-standard tubes and didn't have any problems but you used the same combination and now have problems doesn't negate the fact that both were using non-standard/approved tubes and IMO should not be covered under warranty since the device was used outside of its original design parameters.


 
  
 That's exactly right, there are so many parameters other than heater current.
  
  It would be so helpful if manufacturers could advise on which of these other tube parameters, which are readily available from the data sheets, need to be taken into account, and give us the amplifier's tolerance limits.
  
 I don't think many, if any, manufacturer does this routinely, though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Was the noise that @DecentLevi hears in the left channel present, before he tried the stack 'o power tubes?

Yes? 

Or no?


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> That's exactly right, there are so many parameters other than heater current.
> 
> It would be so helpful if manufacturers could advise on which of these other tube parameters, which are readily available from the data sheets, need to be taken into account, and give us the amplifier's tolerance limits.
> 
> I don't think many, if any, manufacturer does this routinely, though.


 
 That certainly is an interesting idea. I'm just not sure how feasible it would be. I'm pretty sure I would not understand the information, but I'm also sure others would.
  
 I am actually surprised that tube electronics even exist today. I can't think of another consumer product where a critical component can consist of things manufactured as long as 60 or 70 years ago.
  
 I still remember as a kid in pre-transistor days reading a beginner training manual that explained basic circuitry including one volume on tubes. I remember reading (over and over) about the role of the cathode, plate and control grid. It also explained why manufacturers added a other grids. It may be the most enjoyable read I ever had and led to my Ham radio hobby days including my obtaining an expert class license (KY7A)
  
 Today I still love seeing the tube glow and the listening enjoyment they provide.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> That certainly is an interesting idea. I'm just not sure how feasible it would be. I'm pretty sure I would not understand the information, but I'm also sure others would.
> 
> I am actually surprised that tube electronics even exist today. I can't think of another consumer product where a critical component can consist of things manufactured as long as 60 or 70 years ago.
> 
> ...


 
 Those were the days!
  
 I remember the lovely sound from a mono Pye Radiogram we had  in the '50's and I've often wondered why it sounded so good. The reason is probably because it used valves.
  
 My uncle worked in Mullard's Mitcham factory and he was amazed that valves he made half a century ago were being used in modern HiFi- and sounding so good too.


----------



## Suuup

Finally got my Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## lukeap69

suuup said:


> Finally got my Chatham 6AS7G.


 
  
 Did you buy them from Lord Raven?


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> Finally got my Chatham 6AS7G.


 
 Good luck with them. They should be ideal.


----------



## Suuup

lukeap69 said:


> Did you buy them from Lord Raven?



I did not, as import duty would make it super expensive. I bought from Langrex.


----------



## hypnos1

suuup said:


> It's not about the looks though. I am fine with people experimenting with stuff and running crazy setups. It's fun. However, when **** starts coming down, you shouldn't expect a Polish amp-making family to pay. Sure, they could probably offer to repair it for a fee, but ultimately, making these (lovely) frankenstein-setups are not 'proper use' of the product, and as such, it's your own responsibility.


 
  
 It saddens me no end when I hear of anyone having any kind of problem with their amp. And of course, there is always the chance of component failure within any "virgin" unit, whatever its cost.
  
 BUT...as I have pointed out clearly *many* times, the more we veer away from original configuration, the _*greater the risk*_...and the less we can - or should - expect the manufacturer to cover any subsequent damage. This is clearly a minefield, but as has been mentioned, perhaps a compromise is for the manuf'r to try and assess what may be the _possible_ cause and make a judgment accordingly...or even (if one is lucky!) find a local electronics engineer who can perhaps give a repair estimate first and then take it from there.
  
 The message is however most certainly that all of us who are prepared to experiment with our units MUST be prepared to take responsibility for our own actions...and there will inevitably be some who are luckier (or UNluckier!) than others - such is the nature of pioneering work, of course. All we can hope for is that luck is in fact with us _most_ of the time...
  
 So, these caveats notwithstanding, I wish everyone the very best with whatever choices are made in this regard...and continued HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## DecentLevi

I can't pinpoint exactly when the noise in the left channel began, but it seems I may have started to hear it occasionally around the same time that I used the dual 6BL7 adapter with 6BL7 + EL3N via another adapter on each side, which would have been before the 6 power tube setup.
  
 Along with swapping power / RCA cables, tubes including stock class tubes, trying grounded wall connections & grounded wires, I've also opened it and carefully examined all electrical connections and looking meticulously for any sign of burnt / blownout parts, loose connections, etc. to which it passed with flying colors, looking like brand new - yet the problem still remains.
  
 A person of knowledge in the electronics trade mentioned about a similar problem the user of another amp experienced and outlined two specific internal faults which could have cause this issue. So it still remains an unsolved mystery on whether the fault was caused by the user or if it was an inexplicable fluke.
  

  
 Two ways of solving this that I have tested however, are with external heat on either drivers / powers, and usage as a pre-amp.
_(though hum-free external heat may be difficult without a grounded electrical connection)_


----------



## JazzVinyl

@DecentLevi - it would be great if you could rig your own ground wire to ground an external power supply, so that you could say for certain that supplying the left driver heater with external power, solves the noise problem.

Cheers and luck....


.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks again for your help @JazzVinyl. I've followed your lead and came back with some interesting findings:
  
 Using external heat (powered FDD20) on the right driver tube, the (random static sound) in the left channel still exists, but externally powering the left driver tube completely solves the problem. So now I can say that without a doubt it appears to be a problem somewhere between the left driver socket and the headphone output.
_(Also I earlier misspoke that the noise was also gone when testing it without any power tubes rather than externally heated power tubes)_
  
 That is to say that I just re-tested the line-out of the Elise and this static sound is not present in any way shape or form, even at full volume on both amps with sensitive headphones. Also I've tried several types and brands of driver tubes, all of which I still had heard the same noise in the left channel with no variation based on tube. Additionally, I would say the fact that an externally heated tube being able to solve the problem negates the factor of whether my grounding is the cause, also considering I am hearing a sound that is more like a crumpling of paper only through one channel rather than any low pitched hum.
  
 Looks like I'm also 'off the hook' for the notion that my exotic _looking _power tube concoctions had caused the problem. The only unusual driver tubes I've used was a dual 6J5 via adapter which I haven't used there for weeks before this began, and that was granted permission from one of the F.A. owners to me via email. From where I'm standing this was likely caused at no fault of my own. Unfortunately external heat is still not a good option for me, and F.A. has not replied any of my emails or my call in the last 7 days though.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Thanks again for your help @JazzVinyl. I've followed your lead and came back with some interesting findings:
> 
> Using external heat (powered FDD20) on the right driver tube, the (random static sound) in the left channel still exists, but externally powering the left driver tube completely solves the problem. So now I can say that without a doubt it appears to be a problem somewhere between the left driver socket and the headphone output.
> _(Also I earlier misspoke that the noise was also gone when testing it without any power tubes rather than externally heated power tubes)_
> ...


 
 Glad you have narrowed down the problem DL. 
  
 I did mention your issue to a friend and he mentioned it might be a 'cold joint'. He didn't have time to explain to me what that was so I've no idea if that makes any sense or not. Something to do with solder. You will doubtless know what he means.
  
 I've had no issues so far- just sweet sound. Today I'm using the power combo 6BL7/6SN7 with Brimar 6N7GT's as drivers -and the richness of detail and weight of the sound is something I've not experienced before from headphones. Very room speaker-like sound. I know it's always possible to cause damage by injudicious use of tubes but it's so hard to imagine that could be happening when Elise is producing such lovely, effortless sound. I know it can though.
  
 On another point I'm quite concerned about the time it's taking for FA to respond to you. 
  
 I emailed about the same time as you with a technical question about Expressivo and have had no acknowledgement. Usually they response very quickly.
  
 I do hope all is well with FA. Maybe an email/ internet glitch over in Poland.


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> Glad you have narrowed down the problem DL.
> 
> I did mention your issue to a friend and he mentioned it might be a 'cold joint'. He didn't have time to explain to me what that was so I've no idea if that makes any sense or not. Something to do with solder. You will doubtless know what he means.
> 
> ...


 
 Great, can you send a photo of that setup and how would you describe its' sonic attributes? thanks


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Great, can you send a photo of that setup and how would you describe its' sonic attributes? thanks


 
 Rich and detailed. Big sound-stage. Warmer drivers than 'Bad-Boys', not quite as much in the treble but ample for detail even in big choral music. Lovely vocals and big, big grand piano. I was listening to some Schubert solo piano, which I've listened to many times before, and for the first few bars I thought the right channel wasn't working properly or there was a channel imbalance, then these massive bass chords thundered out filling the whole of the right and middle of the sound-stage-quite an experience, truly.
  
 I was actually expecting the 6N7GT's to be cooler sounding- maybe the Brimars are exceptional in this respect and sound more like the coke bottle shaped 6N7's. I have some metal 6N7's on the way too.
  
 Photo to follow once my camera battery has charged up.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Great, can you send a photo of that setup and how would you describe its' sonic attributes? thanks


 
 Here's the photo. Fairly modest compared to previous tube arrangements, but not modest sounding, for sure.
  
 Seductive and incandescent.


----------



## geetarman49

well, i don't have anything to add about elise since it's still in customs ... and ... canada post can legally go on strike any time now ...
  
 however, on monday nite i did see these 2 bands ... really great crap - what can i say?


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> Finally got my Chatham 6AS7G.


 
 Have you tried them with your new Fivre 6SN7s? If so, what do you think???


----------



## connieflyer

After three solid hours of listening with the Sennheiser 800, JRiver through PSAudio New Wave Dac, to Elise with the Visseaux6n7g's from @UntilThen and the Tung ol 5998's I have to give this combo the nod as the best I have heard on this setup. I has everything I could want, detail, clarity, bass, mid's , treble, and soundstage.  Using a complete mixture of flac files in HD with all the different genre's I have, nothing seems to quite reach this level. The 5998's were new tubes and have been burned in now, and the detail is amazing.  If I can find another pair of these, the Visseaux's and the Tung Sol's, I think it will do it for me. Many thanks to @UntilThen for his Visseaux's and the suggestion to check out the auction for the 5998's the best combo I ahve listened to.


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> well, i don't have anything to add about elise since it's still in customs ... and ... canada post can legally go on strike any time now ...
> 
> however, on monday nite i did see these 2 bands ... really great crap - what can i say?




Wow!! Great music! The first Trio...especially enjoyed 

Lucky you!!

Fingers crossed for no delay in getting your amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> After three solid hours of listening with the Sennheiser 800, JRiver through PSAudio New Wave Dac, to Elise with the Visseaux 7n7g's from @UntilThen
> and the Tung ol 5998's I have to give this combo the nod as the best I have heard on this setup. I has everything I could want, detail, clarity, bass, mid's , treble, and soundstage.  Using a complete mixture of flac files in HD with all the different genre's I have, nothing seems to quite reach this level. The 5998's were new tubes and have been burned in now, and the detail is amazing.  If I can find another pair of these, the Visseaux's and the Tung Sol's, I think it will do it for me. Many thanks to @UntilThen
> for his Visseaux's and the suggestion to check out the auction for the 5998's the best combo I ahve listened to.




Yeah to 7N7G/5998!!

Gets you: "there"..!!!


----------



## lemting

howie13 said:


> I emailed about the same time as you with a technical question about Expressivo and have had no acknowledgement. Usually they response very quickly.
> 
> I do hope all is well with FA. Maybe an email/ internet glitch over in Poland.


 
 hello
 very new on this forum, i'm a little bit anxious about feliks audio
 i ordered  an elise on 27 May 2016 and i don't have any new from them
 i emailed them twice and nothing
 impossible to reach them by phone too
  
 are they still alive?????


----------



## connieflyer

Best combo I have heard, the detail is incredible listening to Jesse Sykes and her husky voice and the guitar together sends chills (or it could be the breeze coming thru the window).


----------



## Suuup

pctazhp said:


> Have you tried them with your new Fivre 6SN7s? If so, what do you think???



It seems every time I get new tubes, I have no time at all to listen to them. I tried the Chathams for 3 minutes when I got them before I had to go.


----------



## connieflyer

As far as I have contacted Lukasz, and he usually gets back in short while. As far as info on your amp, they would not have any info until it is in the que being built and tested.  They are a small family owned and opereated company and everyone has more than one job to do.  I would send him another email and try to be patient.  They had a supplier problem when my amp was being built, the chaies were not coming in to their specs, so they had to straighten that out, which they did , took all told about 8-9 weeks from order to ship-receive date.  Well worth the wait.  Great build quality and value.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Best combo I have heard, the detail is incredible listening to Jesse Sykes and her husky voice and the guitar together sends chills (or it could be the breeze coming thru the window).




You said 7n7g but they look like 6N7G..??

*JOYBRINGERS*!


----------



## lemting

connieflyer said:


> As far as I have contacted Lukasz, and he usually gets back in short while. As far as info on your amp, they would not have any info until it is in the que being built and tested.  They are a small family owned and opereated company and everyone has more than one job to do.  I would send him another email and try to be patient.  They had a supplier problem when my amp was being built, the chaies were not coming in to their specs, so they had to straighten that out, which they did , took all told about 8-9 weeks from order to ship-receive date.  Well worth the wait.  Great build quality and value.


 
 thank you
 i will wait untill July 11 (6 weeks after order)


----------



## connieflyer

You can still email him, can't hurt.  If you get a chance have a listen to this vocalist.


----------



## connieflyer

notice adapters under tubes are from @UntilThen also


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Best combo I have heard, the detail is incredible listening to Jesse Sykes and her husky voice and the guitar together sends chills (or it could be the *breeze* coming thru the window).


 
 What is "breeze"??? Does not compute here in Scottsdale right now. Maybe because A/C is running 24/7 with no open windows!!!!
  
 I love the 5998s, but I don't have a pair of 7N7s. I do have a pair of drivers that was described by the seller on Ebay as "6SN7GTB Sylvania Chrome Top Vintage Tubes Reference Plus Grade 'Best Quality' " that I paid $45 for. I know they aren't the real Chrome Tops, but combined with the 5998s they are at the top of my preferred combos.
  
 With a power set of tubes like the 5998s, it seems to me the real challenge then becomes finding good drivers. @UntilThen referred me to this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread. And there is also this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts. But the information on both threads is overwhelming, and I find it difficult to match recommended tubes with 6SN7s on Ebay, and the prices on Ebay are all over the map.
  
 I'm not looking for new tubes. I'm very happy with what I have. Just some general thoughts.
  
 Very glad you have found a combo that really works for you)))
  
 Edit:  I realize there are many other driver choices than just 6SN7s and I have a number of non-6SN7 (and other 6SN7 tubes I like) driver tubes. My comments above are limited to the difficulty of finding good 6SN7 drivers. Promise, this is the last edit. In too much of a hurry this morning )))


----------



## mordy

Re waiting to hear from Feliks Audio:
  
 Several times in the past there were gaps because of Polish holidays that we were not aware of. Could be that people take more time off from work compared to some other countries....


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> After three solid hours of listening with the Sennheiser 800, JRiver through PSAudio New Wave Dac, to Elise with the Visseaux 7n7g's from @UntilThen and the Tung ol 5998's I have to give this combo the nod as the best I have heard on this setup. I has everything I could want, detail, clarity, bass, mid's , treble, and soundstage.  Using a complete mixture of flac files in HD with all the different genre's I have, nothing seems to quite reach this level. The 5998's were new tubes and have been burned in now, and the detail is amazing.  If I can find another pair of these, the Visseaux's and the Tung Sol's, I think it will do it for me. Many thanks to @UntilThen for his Visseaux's and the suggestion to check out the auction for the 5998's the best combo I ahve listened to.


 
 7N7-That's a most interesting tube, I've never heard one before. I've always eschewed looking at them as I assumed they required a 7V heater voltage, being called 7N7 as opposed to 6N7.
  
 Have you had any opportunity to compare how they sound with any 6SN7 tubes as drivers in Elise, using the same power tubes?


----------



## connieflyer

I have used them with both kenrad and Sylvania vt-231 s the Ken rads were new in original boxes, the Sylvania gentle used,tested as new. The 6n7s have just a little more of everything not earth shattering but noticeably better. Sylvania is my favorite manufacturer usually, but on the 6sn7 they are just a little bass shy, where as the Ken rads are just the opposite, the Visseaux are a cut above. I had two pair of the Visseaux 6j5,s and they were also noticed better. I also have a pair of Rca 6n7gts but they are not quite as well rounded as the Visseaux. Mind you I don't find any of my tube combinations to blow any othere,s away, just some are just a little more right. When I had the Ember amp, everyone had the Visseaux as top of the food chain and prices to match for the 6j5 tube, and I thought so too, started rolling in the Sylvania 6L5 and sold off both pair for a couple of hundred and after a short while did not miss the top of heap, bank account thanked me as well. Best is everyone's Personal choice, know two people hear exactly the same. Elise is a much better sounding amp than Ember was, definitely worth the extra money.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> I have used them with both knead and Sylvania vt-231 s the Ken rads were new in original boxes, the Sylvania gentle used,tested as new. The 7n7s have just a little more of everything not earth shattering but noticeably better. Sylvania is my favorite manufacturer usually, but on the 6sn7 they are just a little bass shy, where as the Ken rads are just the opposite, the Visseaux are a cut above. I had two pair of the Visseaux 6j5,s and they were also noticed better. I also have a pair of Rca 7n7gts but they are not quite as well rounded as the Visseaux. Mind you I don't find any of my tube combinations to blow any othere,s away, just some are just a little more right. When I had the Ember amp, everyone had the Visseaux as top of the food chain and prices to match for the 6j5 tube, and I thought so too, started rolling in the Sylvania 6L5 and sold off both pair for a couple of hundred and after a short while did not miss the top of heap, bank account thanked me as well. Best is everyone's Personal choice, know two people hear exactly the same. Elise is a much better sounding amp than Ember was, definitely worth the extra money.


 
 That's very helpful.
  
 That's my experience too with the Sylvanias and K-R's, both very good in their own way-but very different in the bass.
  
 The 7N7's must be good then. I'll keep a look out. Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi @connieflyer your typo error must have confused quite a few here but from the photo, it's quite obvious it's the Visseaux 6N7G, aka JV's Joybringer. It's very hard to find a pair on eBay now.
  
 I gave you both the Visseaux 6N7G and RCA 6N7GT plus the black adapters. I know you'll like the Visseaux 6N7G and 5998 combo but you've quite a few very good sounding combos in your possession. Glad the black 6N7G to 6SN7 adapters are working like a charm too.
  
 There's also 7N7, which is similar in sound to Sylvania 6SN7 but for a fraction of the price. I have a pair of Raytheon 7N7. This is not to be confused with 6N7.
  
 6N7G is more forward sounding than 6SN7. Has a stronger bass and a wall of sound that hits you. Very good details and clarity. I've with me the Fivre 6N7G brown base, Fivre 6N7G 'horn', Mazda 6N7G, Philco 6N7G plus Visseaux 6A6, Fivre 6A6, National Union 6A6. 6A6 are very similar to 6N7G in sound. I also have a Marconi 6N7. They are all hum free in my Elise.
  
 Enjoy your music and keep well.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Re waiting to hear from Feliks Audio:
> 
> Several times in the past there were gaps because of Polish holidays that we were not aware of. Could be that people take more time off from work compared to some other countries....


 

 Plus the fact that Poland is now in the quarter finals of Euro 2016 soccer. There's probably much celebrations going on.


----------



## connieflyer

Are you talking about that currency exchange like in Euro's for Dollars?


----------



## connieflyer

And yes @UntilThen corrected me on the tube types in previous post. It is in fact 6n7 not 7n7. Fingers and mind are not co-operating yet, not that they did before either. One other question for UT, are there any tubes you DON'T have?  You can spend the next five years and not hear the same tubes twice, and yes I really like the Visseaux 6n7G's they are superb sounding with the 5998's


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Are you talking about that currency exchange like in Euro's for Dollars?


 

 CF, I'm talking about soccer. It's a joke anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 However glad to see Poland in the quarterfinals of that tournament.


----------



## connieflyer

I had to throw that out there, actually knew that, soccer is getting very popular in the states.  Myself just trying to keep up with the music


----------



## connieflyer

Went back and corrected earlyer posts, to reflect 6n7 instead of 7n7 sorry for the screw up, will do better with age!  Must have been that bottle of blue wine the neighbor gave me


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Went back and corrected earlyer posts, to reflect 6n7 instead of 7n7 sorry for the screw up, will do better with age!  Must have been that bottle of blue wine the neighbor gave me


 
 Some of us take longer to reach full maturity ))))


----------



## connieflyer

You bet the wine defiantly had not aged enough, I think it was bottled last week , although  it was a good week


----------



## HOWIE13

Okay, so it's 6N7- not 7N7,  I've got it now.
  
 Well I've only heard the Brimar 6N7G's and 'hit with a wall of sound' is absolutely correct. Amazing experience.
  
EDIT (30/6/16, 0900 BST)): ACTUALLY BRIMAR 6N7GT.


----------



## geetarman49

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow!! Great music! The first Trio...especially enjoyed
> 
> Lucky you!!
> 
> Fingers crossed for no delay in getting your amp.


 
 thnx JV;  & in a couple of hours i'll be listening to the arild andersen trio live   --- & live is best, tubes or no tubes.
  


lemting said:


> thank you
> i will wait untill July 11 (6 weeks after order)


 
 imo, 6 wks is insufficient --- closer to 8.


----------



## JazzVinyl

geetarman49 said:


> thnx JV;  & in a couple of hours i'll be listening to the arild andersen trio live   --- & live is best, tubes or no tubes.




I love the Arid Andersen Trio!!

Jealous!!


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Okay, so it's 6N7- not 7N7,  I've got it now.
> 
> Well I've only heard the Brimar 6N7G's and 'hit with a wall of sound' is absolutely correct. Amazing experience.


 

 Howie, post a pic of the Brimar 6N7G. Haven't seen it before. Expensive?
  
 I wonder how they compare to the Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G.
  
 Even the Brimar 6N7GT is US$150.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-6N7GT-BRITISH-PAIR-OF-NEW-OLD-STOCK-BOXED-TESTED-VINTAGE-VALVES-TUBES-/172163832035?hash=item2815c398e3:g:1VQAAOSwJQdXCxrH


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> Okay, so it's 6N7- not 7N7,  I've got it now.




If you like 6N7G, you might also like FDD20, a 12volt variant of 6N7G that is a bit more laid back with a precise presentation and deep, articulated bass.


----------



## nykobing

untilthen said:


> Howie, post a pic of the Brimar 6N7G. Haven't seen it before. Expensive?
> 
> I wonder how they compare to the Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There has been some other English 6n7gt on ebay for the longest time and cheap, but it seems they sold out now. I didn't buy it because I bought a bunch of Visseaux 6n7gt for 5 or 6 euros each and figured I didn't  need any more. I wonder if they are actually English, the base looks like the Fivre ones.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Tubes-RADIO-TUBES-6N7-GT-HALTRON-UK-4-NOS-NIB-8-offers-/331843801545?hash=item4d436e91c9%3Ag%3ATOYAAOSwHPlWdZOj&nma=true&si=afXrBKxiDeApPCJscfy8A%252B4SVQY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## mordy

Just got my copy of the new Audio Advisor catalog and noticed that they are offering several headphone stands. Most of them run around $70. Took a look at eBay to see if there are some special ones (my headphones are humbly lying in a cardboard box sharing space with various papers, cameras, bubble wrap and things that I think I need).
  
 Anyhow, for you T1 owners, do I have something for you! A 1.5kg solid aluminum stand, available in different colors. It is only $160, but there is a 24K gold plated version available for $350.
  




  




  
 I forgot - there is a chrome version for $250.




 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Headphone-stand-T1-/291757349824?hash=item43ee17dbc0:g:NLMAAOSwiYFXLNgY


----------



## UntilThen

nykobing said:


> There has been some other English 6n7gt on ebay for the longest time and cheap, but it seems they sold out now. I didn't buy it because I bought a bunch of Visseaux 6n7gt for 5 or 6 euros each and figured I didn't  need any more. I wonder if they are actually English, the base looks like the Fivre ones.


 
 5 or 6 euros for Visseaux 6N7GT. You've done well.
  
 Don't know about the Haltron Made in England though.


----------



## RedBull

Guys, questions, did anyone received email from Lukasz recently? 
I have been 2-3 emailing him in the past week with no reply.
I wonder if the email is down or email address has changed?


----------



## UntilThen

redbull said:


> Guys, questions, did anyone received email from Lukasz recently?
> I have been 2-3 emailing him in the past week with no reply.
> I wonder if the email is down or email address has changed?


 

 Seems like a few of you are not getting any reply. It could be they are away on holiday. Happens to me last year which I was ordering.


----------



## DavidA

@mordy, the stands look really nice but I think they may be too short at 242mm (9.5" tall).  I've usually tried to find/build stands that have 11.5" or more to keep the cables from being sharply bent on the table top.  Could also be that most of my headphones have removable cables so the connectors make the height a little more.  For the T1/DT-990, using mini-xlr connectors adds about 2.5".


----------



## RedBull

Thanks UT, that's relieving to know that I am not the only one, not getting reply.  I guess I have to give him some more time
 I am a bit anxious as it has been 7 weeks since I made payment, I am expecting to get tracking number, not silent. 
 Oh well, there's always exceptions in live, I guess.
  
 I am fine now cos I can talk to my friends here to guess what happened, but for customers outside head-fi, they may be wondering whether the company closed down, run away with their money or what? 
 It would be much better for Lukasz business if he can have the automated reply turned on to at least let them know if he is going to be away.
 I understand Feliks audio is a small company, but it doesn't need any investment to turn on Out of Office feature or?
  
 Sorry for rambling, I guess it's my anxiety virus symptom in action


----------



## UntilThen

No worries Redbull. 

8 to 10 weeks is not uncommon. I know it's hard waiting. I've been through it. Then it came and the waits forgotten.

Remember the DNA Stratus is a one year wait from order. I know of other customised amps too.

Right now I'm going to watch Independence Day.


----------



## lemting

redbull said:


> Thanks UT, that's relieving to know that I am not the only one, not getting reply.  I guess I have to give him some more time
> I am a bit anxious as it has been 7 weeks since I made payment, I am expecting to get tracking number, not silent.
> Oh well, there's always exceptions in live, I guess.
> 
> ...


 

 +1!!!!
 in a previous mail when i ordered, lukasz wrote 6 weeks to built the elise


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Howie, post a pic of the Brimar 6N7G. Haven't seen it before. Expensive?
> 
> I wonder how they compare to the Fivre and Visseaux 6N7G.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Apologies, meant GT. Sorry for that.
  
 Won 4 of them on auction last week for just over £36, which included postage. I didn't know they could be so expensive.
  
 The date codes are a year ending in 2-4. I guess its 1962/4 as the box has the price in UK pre-1971 monetary units of 17/6 +PT (purchase tax, an earlier version of VAT).
  
 They all look the same, these are the two that aren't in the picture in Elise I posted earlier, #12333, p823.


----------



## HOWIE13

lemting said:


> +1!!!!
> in a previous mail when i ordered, lukasz wrote 6 weeks to built the elise


 
  


redbull said:


> Thanks UT, that's relieving to know that I am not the only one, not getting reply.  I guess I have to give him some more time
> I am a bit anxious as it has been 7 weeks since I made payment, I am expecting to get tracking number, not silent.
> Oh well, there's always exceptions in live, I guess.
> 
> ...


 
 I expect everyone at Feliks Audio is just so busy fulfilling all their orders,
  
 Also I guess if one family member takes a holiday it will have a knock on effect on the total production time.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> If you like 6N7G, you might also like FDD20, a 12volt variant of 6N7G that is a bit more laid back with a precise presentation and deep, articulated bass.


 
 Thanks JV.
  
 I'm thinking about those FDD20. I've already been advised on this thread that they will suit the detailed instrumental stuff I listen to but I thought I would exhaust the tubes that don't need external power first-then I'll maybe take the leap!
  
 I have a bookmark to a suitable power supply already on my computer (recommended to me on this excellent, helpful thread too).
  
 Incidently, if I have a 12V external supply does that mean I can roll any potentially compatible 12V tube like a 12SN7 or would that be too risky do you think?


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> 5 or 6 euros for Visseaux 6N7GT. You've done well.
> 
> Don't know about the Haltron Made in England though.


 
  
 Haltron (Hall Electric Company) didn't make tubes as far as I'm aware. They re-branded and distributed other manufacturers' tubes. 
  
 Could be from anywhere if they are older tubes but later tubes I think were mostly Russian and Japanese in origin.


----------



## HOWIE13

To those waiting for their Elise's it may well be FA are on holiday.
  
 My Elise, Serial Number #62, ( but invoice #59) only took 4-5 weeks to dispatch and that was 3 weeks ago.
 Maybe FA increased production at that time to clear as many of their orders as possible before going on holiday now.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Just got my copy of the new Audio Advisor catalog and noticed that they are offering several headphone stands. Most of them run around $70. Took a look at eBay to see if there are some special ones (my headphones are humbly lying in a cardboard box sharing space with various papers, cameras, bubble wrap and things that I think I need).
> 
> Anyhow, for you T1 owners, do I have something for you! A 1.5kg solid aluminum stand, available in different colors. It is only $160, but there is a 24K gold plated version available for $350.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here's my answer to headphone storage -the wife's shoe rack- not very elegant though it is on wheels. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 .
  
                                     FRONT AND BACK VIEWS


----------



## DecentLevi

Awesome headphone collection Howie, I had no idea!
  
 So let me guess your favorites: HD-600 and HE-400i (if that's what the Hifiman is)?
 What are some of your other favorites?
 And how about on-ears / transportable, which of those do you like best?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Awesome headphone collection Howie, I had no idea!
> 
> So let me guess your favorites: HD-600 and HE-400i (if that's what the Hifiman is)?
> What are some of your other favorites?
> And how about on-ears / transportable, which of those do you like best?


 
  
 You haven't even seen my garage!
  
 It's the plain HE400.
  
 As for favourites it changes and depends on what I'm listening to and the amp/tube.
  
 Love the clarity and 'cleanness' of the AKG's in general- vocals with the HE's, Senns for general relaxing, not too analytical listening, SRH 840 for piano, DT 990 for very low volume and HP100 for 'closed can' general listening etc etc.
  
 It has changed over the last couple of years though.
  
 For outside I like my modded Philips Uptown and SoundMagic E10 in ears, and QC15 for air travel.
  
 Of course I would have been much more sensible just buying an HD 800 or T1 - but in time..........


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Haltron (Hall Electric Company) didn't make tubes as far as I'm aware. They re-branded and distributed other manufacturers' tubes.
> 
> Could be from anywhere if they are older tubes but later tubes I think were mostly Russian and Japanese in origin.




Yep, they did not make them. The photo on ebay shows similarities to Brimar 6N7GT, so could be Brimar, but I can't tell based on that photo.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Yep, they did not make them. The photo on ebay shows similarities to Brimar 6N7GT, so could be Brimar, but I can't tell based on that photo.


 
 Just had a close look at the photo and compared to my Brimars, and yes they could well be Brimars as far as the internal structures are concerned. Don't know about the brown base though. Mine is black.


----------



## RedBull

untilthen said:


> No worries Redbull.
> 
> 8 to 10 weeks is not uncommon. I know it's hard waiting. I've been through it. Then it came and the waits forgotten.
> 
> ...




Ya, but then, wait for Elise is a torture 




lemting said:


> +1!!!!
> in a previous mail when i ordered, lukasz wrote 6 weeks to built the elise




So how long did you received Elise in the end?



howie13 said:


> I expect everyone at Feliks Audio is just so busy fulfilling all their orders,
> 
> Also I guess if one family member takes a holiday it will have a knock on effect on the total production time.




That is likely the case, but I pity those that don't have any idea what's going on, I imagine how unhappy they are. This is not good for business.




howie13 said:


> To those waiting for their Elise's it may well be FA are on holiday.
> 
> My Elise, Serial Number #62, ( but invoice #59) only took 4-5 weeks to dispatch and that was 3 weeks ago.
> Maybe FA increased production at that time to clear as many of their orders as possible before going on holiday now.




Mine invoice# 61 so should still be behind you.


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Just had a close look at the photo and compared to my Brimars, and yes they could well be Brimars as far as the internal structures are concerned. Don't know about the brown base though. Mine is black.




I'm not even sure whether that's black or brown base in the photo. :regular_smile :

Brimar certainly made both. (I don't know about 6N7GT specifically.)


----------



## richdytch

Hello feliksfolk. 
  
 I've been quiet because of a walking trip to north west Scotland. However, one of the best things about coming back from the hills is remember how lovely music is. 
  
 My 1944 Ken Rad VT231s arrived, but unfortunately one of them hums very badly. I've got to negotiate a return with the seller. Bad bizniz. 
  
 I've tried the stock TS reissues with the Chatham 6AS7G powers, and you know they're really not bad at all. It's easy to see how Lukasz and co. settled on them for stock - there's a good evenness about their character with a sense that all areas are 'filled in'. The Chathams really open up their character, and I'd be interested to see how they develop with a few more weeks of use. I'm pretty much done with tube rolling now - I'll get a replacement set of early - mid 40's VT231 under my belt then be happy with my Chathams, stock TS, Ken Rad 6SN7 and whatever VT231 I settle on. Mullard 6080 on hold as an alternate power tube. 
  
 I think I'll hold on to my 8 EL3N in case a) I ever get a lower gain power amp with which I can use them not have the background noise (I'm convinced that the massive gain of my fairly beefy power amp ensures that noise that might not normally be audible, or only just audible, gets made a little louder) and b) in case they become worth a bit more money 
  
 I feel pretty spoiled for tubes to be honest, and ultimately it's about the music for me - so all my spare tubes are now packed up into a large box and are going into the attic. My aim is to forget completely about tube rolling, and maximise the listening.


----------



## DavidA

@HOWIE13, nice storage rack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, can't believe your wife doesn't have it filled up with shoes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I was going to take a picture of my GF's shoe rack and she said "F_ _ _ N_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 This is my storage, until I can build some stands that I can place on the side of my listening table:

  
 Some headphones are missing: T1 (my son has it), SR-009 (in Hilo for the month), SR-40 (in storage), SR-225i (with a friend), my GF's HD-650, HD-700, QC-15 and K7XX (all in the bedroom)


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> Ya, but then, wait for Elise is a torture
> So how long did you received Elise in the end?
> That is likely the case, but I pity those that don't have any idea what's going on, I imagine how unhappy they are. This is not good for business.
> Mine invoice# 61 so should still be behind you.


 
 Your wait should be almost over though.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> I'm not even sure whether that's black or brown base in the photo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They were a good price compared to some sellers..


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> @HOWIE13, nice storage rack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 She was so fed up with all my cans littering the lounge she insisted on giving me the rack and she just piles her shoes up in a cupboard-  suits me fine.
  
 I like your storage solution too; easy to grab whatever you fancy.


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> Incidently, if I have a 12V external supply does that mean I can roll any potentially compatible 12V tube like a 12SN7 or would that be too risky do you think?




No risk in 12SN7's heated externally.

Just use a pair of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> No risk in 12SN7's heated externally.
> 
> Just use a pair of these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Special-saver-for-6SN7-6BL7-ect-/191741357847


 
 Thanks. That's bookmarked too!


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Hello feliksfolk.
> 
> I've been quiet because of a walking trip to north west Scotland. However, one of the best things about coming back from the hills is remember how lovely music is.
> 
> ...


 
 I love the luscious bass of those K-R's. Iconic tube and therefore not cheap, but worth it for my ears (and yours too).
  
 I have one that intermittently buzzed and hummed, really horribly. Tracked down the problem to a slightly loose bottle within the base. I could position the bottle so it stopped being noisy only for it to start up again after a few minutes.
  
 So I positioned the bottle so it was quiet and then squirted Super Glue onto the bottle /base interface and now it's stuck in a position where it doesn't buzz/hum anymore. 
  
 A bit drastic but it worked.


----------



## richdytch

Hi Howie - ok, thanks very much for that info - I'll see what I can do if the seller refuses a return!
  
 Cheers, 
  
 Rich.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Hi Howie - ok, thanks very much for that info - I'll see what I can do if the seller refuses a return!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rich.


 
 Good luck!


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> I love the luscious bass of those K-R's. Iconic tube and therefore not cheap, but worth it for my ears (and yours too).




+1 on sound of the K-R's!!


----------



## pctazhp

In honor of our getting rain here in Scottsdale last night


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> And yes @UntilThen corrected me on the tube types in previous post. It is in fact 6n7 not 7n7. Fingers and mind are not co-operating yet, not that they did before either. One other question for UT, are there any tubes you DON'T have?  You can spend the next five years and not hear the same tubes twice, and yes I really like the Visseaux 6n7G's they are superb sounding with the 5998's


 
 I really love my Visseaux 6A6G/TS7236 combination.I hadn't even thought about the 6A6Gs in months, but I tried the combination after reading about your experience with the 6N7s and it may become my top combo. It really is special. I think the 6A6 has the same electrical characteristics as the 6N7s. The notes I wrote when I bought the 6A6Gs say the Fivres are supposed to be better, but I never looked for a pair. The 6A6Gs require a large, ugly white marshmallo 6A6 to 6SN7 adapter.
  
 It really is pretty amazing how many different tubes the Elise excels with.


----------



## RedBull

howie13 said:


> Your wait should be almost over though.




Amenn, brother.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I really love my Visseaux 6A6G/TS7236 combination.I hadn't even thought about the 6A6Gs in months, but I tried the combination after reading about your experience with the 6N7s and it may become my top combo. It really is special. I think the 6A6 has the same electrical characteristics as the 6N7s. The notes I wrote when I bought the 6A6Gs say the Fivres are supposed to be better, but I never looked for a pair. The 6A6Gs require a large, ugly white marshmallo 6A6 to 6SN7 adapter.




6A6 is the 6N7G, in an 'earlier than Octal' base.

Yeah to the 6N7G, family of tubes. 

You don't see the Visseaux or the Fivre's 6A6G as often, these days. 

Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> You don't see the Visseaux or the Fivre's 6A6G as often, these days.


 
 They are in my vault.


----------



## UntilThen

richdytch said:


> I feel pretty spoiled for tubes to be honest, and ultimately it's about the music for me - so all my spare tubes are now packed up into a large box and are going into the attic. My aim is to forget completely about tube rolling, and maximise the listening.


 
 That's the right thing to do. Just listen to music. Close your eyes. Sit back and enjoy!!!


----------



## lemting

Good news, Lukasz send me a mail this afternoon
 my unit will be ready 2 or 3 week of july


----------



## Suuup

I  have ~30 tubes from the 6N7 family. By far my favorite tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

lemting said:


> Good news, Lukasz send me a mail this afternoon
> my unit will be ready 2 or 3 week of july


 

 Great. Didn't I tell you, he'll get back to you. He has probably gone on a holiday. What gear are you using Elise with lemting? 
  
 Welcome btw.


----------



## connieflyer

Congratulations lemming it won't be long now. You are in for a treat


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I  have ~30 tubes from the 6N7 family. By far my favorite tubes.




Definitely one of my favorites, too!!


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Good luck!




Thanks! The seller has kindly offered to send me a replacement tube for the one that hums. I just need to send the bad one to Canada first.

Rich


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Apologies, meant GT. Sorry for that.
> 
> Won 4 of them on auction last week for just over £36, which included postage. I didn't know they could be so expensive.
> 
> ...




Is that 4D5 and 2E5 I see? This being Brimar, the format should be WMY. The older style box makes me think that the year might be 1955. Do you see STC, Thorn or Thorn-AEI somewhere on the box?


----------



## tonyl59

My Elise is on track for delivery in the first or second week of July. Really looking forward to it!


----------



## HOWIE13

6A6 tubes were one of my favourites in Ember. Now I'll need to find them and there's another tube to roll in Elise.
  
 The Never Ending Story.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Is that 4D5 and 2E5 I see? This being Brimar, the format should be WMY. The older style box makes me think that the year might be 1955. Do you see STC, Thorn or Thorn-AEI somewhere on the box?


 
 That's interesting. I had it in my mind that the first number was the year, but you are probably correct.
 No mention of any other company on the box.
  
 EDIT; You are indeed correct about the Brimar date codes. My bad.
 The other two I bought are also 2E5 coded.


----------



## Oskari

Go Poland!


----------



## Audict123

A lot of posts on FDD20 and 6N7 family tubes on the last pages and rightfully so. To my ears the FDD20's are the best and they run very well with stock Russian powers. Indeed, they brings out a lot of detail in both the mids and treble but that is served on a basis with increadibly 'physical' bass. Very nice for rock too. Euphonic? Yes. Too euphonic? No, bring it on! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





To answer your question one or two pages ago Howie13: yes, with a 12V supply for FDD20 you are fully equipped to work with 12SN7's too. They are electrically identical to 6SN7 except for the heater current. 
  
 I decided on a 'lab power supply' so I can even use 25V tubes, or 3,2V, or whatever, and tune the exact heater voltage around the recommended value. I previously reported I needed some 13.5 volts to run the FDD20, but that turns out to be an artifact. The output voltage cables supplied with my lab power supply are so thin that the resulting resistance lead to a significant voltage drop (and hot cables..) The voltage at the tube end was in fact a normal 12.5V. Replaced by thicker cables, all is normal now. When I change powers to 6AS7G or 5998, I need a bit more voltage to be fully distortion free with FDD20. So, I really like the flexibility to raise or lower the heater voltage with this kind of power supply. 
  
 The normal 6.3 volt tubes can also benefit from an external power supply. My Elise is very finicky with the entire class of 6N7G tubes (sometimes distortion, sometimes not), I know of several others that had problems with this class of tubes and gave up on them. But when I run them externally heated all is well and they sound fantastic. Apart from an external power supply, you need one more part to run tubes that way. Xu Ling has 'socket saver' adapters for 6SN7 with external power leads (similar to the FDD20 adapters). You can use these in combination with ANY tube (+ the regular adapter that goes with that type of course). I've been doing that for the last few days and now EVERY 6N7G I put in works. Hmmm, interesting... One more experiment: the same is true when I put one of the powers tubes in the externally heated adapter, taking load from Elises heater supply. My conclusion at the moment is therefore that in MY Elise the heater power of my Elise is challenged a bit too much with 6N7G's in (two of them draw 1,8A versus 1.2A for the stock 6SN7). I bet the same problem will arise with eg Mullard ECC31, which draws even more (1A each if I recall correctly). I don't have these thought...
  
 Long again, sorry. Basically my message to Elise owners who'se amp refuses to work with 6N7G and ECC31 is: buy an external power supply + these 6SN7 socket savers with external power leads and you are good to go. In fact: one will probably do (you need to supply only one power tube or drive tube with external power and it works). If you are among the lucky ones where Elise runs them 'as is' without any tinkering : you are among the MOST Lucky ones,  others like me are the plain lucky ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Howie13: if you want to buy Fivre 'horned' 6A6 (labelled ultron) NOS at a low price, have a look at my post 8238 in this thread. In fact, I have too many so you can also contact me for a pair.


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> That's interesting. I had it in my mind that the first number was the year, but you are probably correct.
> No mention of any other company on the box.
> 
> EDIT; You are indeed correct about the Brimar date codes. My bad.
> The other two I bought are also 2E5 coded.




Philips and pals had it one way and Brimar the other way.

If you see Thorn on a Brimar box, it's 1960 or later; Thorn-AEI, 1961 or later. Before those, Brimar was a division of STC.


----------



## HOWIE13

audict123 said:


> A lot of posts on FDD20 and 6N7 family tubes on the last pages and rightfully so. To my ears the FDD20's are the best and they run very well with stock Russian powers. Indeed, they brings out a lot of detail in both the mids and treble but that is served on a basis with increadibly 'physical' bass. Very nice for rock too. Euphonic? Yes. Too euphonic? No, bring it on!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for all that interesting info.
 So far I've only used the Brimar 6N7GT's and there's no hum. I have others on order though.
  
 Those Fivre's sound good. I hope I can locate the several 6A6's I had for Ember and if I can't I'll look at your post for sure.
 I had to use an earthed Faraday cage with Ember to stop the 6A6's humming. Worked very well and background was then silent.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Philips and pals had it one way and Brimar the other way.
> 
> If you see Thorn on a Brimar box, it's 1960 or later; Thorn-AEI, 1961 or later. Before those, Brimar was a division of STC.


 
 I have an ECC88 Brimar which has STC on the box.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Great. Didn't I tell you, he'll get back to you. He has probably gone on a holiday. What gear are you using Elise with lemting?
> 
> Welcome btw.


 
 That's the trouble with holidays-loads of emails to answer when you get home.


----------



## Oskari

oskari said:


> Go Poland!




Crap.


----------



## HOWIE13

Quote:


oskari said:


> Crap.


 
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Have a couple of drinks then back to Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Crap.




Poland lost?


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Poland lost?




Do you want to know if they did?


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> I have an ECC88 Brimar which has STC on the box.




That should be 1960 or earlier then.




howie13 said:


> Have a couple of drinks then back to Elise.




To be honest, I should hit the sack…


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> That should be 1960 or earlier then.
> To be honest, I should hit the sack…


 
 Yes, me too, it's getting well past bed time. It gets light so early this time of year. I usually wake up about 0400.
 Then it's straight to Elise.
  
 As you thought those 6N7GT Brimars are probably '50's.


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Yes, me too, it's getting well past bed time. It gets light so early this time of year. I usually wake up about 0400.




I'm far enough north that it doesn't get completely dark at all currently. Not a problem, though, I'm used to it.


----------



## connieflyer

Just received an email back from Lukasz I asked about the headphone stands, and he forwarded the email to his brother who is heading up that product.  According to Michal, they hope to be shipping in the first half of August.  I told him I wanted to be in the first group as I definitely want to be in the first group of buyers, these are all hand made, and I am sure with the Feliks name on it, it will be a very nice product.  Can't wait.


----------



## RedBull

Just receive email from Feliks, my unit will be shipped in few days. Yippe
Now I can prove myself Elise thread is a hype or not. ;P


----------



## UntilThen

tonyl59 said:


> My Elise is on track for delivery in the first or second week of July. Really looking forward to it!


 

 Welcome Tony to this expanding Elise family. I look forward to your getting it. You might beat @geetarman49 to it. Customs is still testing his.


----------



## RedBull

@Howie13, hope I don't missed your impression if you already have written one.
How do you find sound sig different between Elise and Ember? E vs E


----------



## UntilThen

redbull said:


> Just receive email from Feliks, my unit will be shipped in few days. Yippe
> Now I can prove myself Elise thread is a hype or not. ;P


 

 Woohoo excited for you. Will you be playing Batman Forever as your first track?


----------



## RedBull

untilthen said:


> Woohoo excited for you. Will you be playing Batman Forever as your first track?




Batman Forever is too old, I will give the honour to the best movie series, Game of Thrones!!!


----------



## UntilThen

redbull said:


> Batman Forever is too old, I will give the honour to the best movie series, Game of Thrones!!!


 

 I am looking at your Avatar.


----------



## UntilThen

Omg Portugal beat Poland on penalties.


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 According to my understanding the Elise is wired in such a way that what counts is the total current draw of all four tubes. As an example, if you have the power tubes on external power, you should be able to use a pair of 6AS7 as drivers, drawing 5A together.
  
 In the past, in my Little Dot days, I was using an external 12V power supply for the power tubes with a voltage regulator. For reasons that I do not understand, there was a different amount of voltage drop depending on the tubes I used.
  
 I measured the actual voltage reaching the tube pins. To get 6.3V at the amp socket, I sometimes had to set the voltage regulator to 6.4V, 6.8V or 7.1V, all depending on the type of tube that I used.
  
 All this may be academic, since the tube specifications usually allow for approximately a 10% difference in the tube voltage.
  
 As for hum, it seems that most people attribute the hum to grounding problems.
  
 I am intrigued by a Faraday cage but never got to try one out.


----------



## RedBull

untilthen said:


> I am looking at your Avatar.




Ah, that's my best actor forever, Joker in The Dark Knight. It's a pity he is no longer around.


----------



## Audict123

Hi Mordy,
  
 You probably had a poorly (or non-)regulated power supply. Or, as in my case, the lead wires were too thin to carry the current without resistance. The more current the tubes need, the more current in that wire and the bigger the voltage drop over the wire.
  
 I have no hum whatsoever with my external power supply (gophert cps-3205, ebay) and I don't need to ground it for that.


----------



## lemting

untilthen said:


> Great. Didn't I tell you, he'll get back to you. He has probably gone on a holiday. What gear are you using Elise with lemting?
> 
> Welcome btw.


 

 elise will be beetween black dragon dac (audiobyte from romania) and vali headphone (kennerton from russia)
 at the beginning is a nuc with daphile or tinysqueeze


----------



## tonyl59

untilthen said:


> Welcome Tony to this expanding Elise family. I look forward to your getting it. You might beat @geetarman49
> to it. Customs is still testing his.



Thanks for the welcome. It's going to be very interesting to try out. I'm particularly looking forward to see how my HD800 works with it, fed by Hugo. I'll be sure to put some updates in when it arrives! Cheers, Tony


----------



## UntilThen

lemting said:


> elise will be beetween black dragon dac (audiobyte from romania) and vali headphone (kennerton from russia)
> at the beginning is a nuc with daphile or tinysqueeze


 

 Very interesting. I have neither heard nor seen those before. Be sure to post some pics when you get your Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

tonyl59 said:


> Thanks for the welcome. It's going to be very interesting to try out. I'm particularly looking forward to see how my HD800 works with it, fed by Hugo. I'll be sure to put some updates in when it arrives! Cheers, Tony


 

 Excellent Tony. First Hugo in our midst. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## UntilThen

Gonna spin you some blues now.


----------



## UntilThen

One more


----------



## tannc2810

helpful infomations thanks!


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Gonna spin you some blues now.




  
 & let me offer you some more jazz  ... here are a couple numbers that i heard live on wednesday eve: 

  

  
 one of the best concerts that i've seen/heard, in a small intimate jazz venue ... just super  priceless.


----------



## DavidA

@geetarman49, love the music selections


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> @Howie13, hope I don't missed your impression if you already have written one.
> How do you find sound sig different between Elise and Ember? E vs E


 
 Hi RedBull
  
 I don't think there is any virtue in doing direct comparisons between Ember2 and Elise as they are very different types of amps and very different in price.
  
 Ember2 is a great amp to learn the art/science of tube rolling and experimenting with changes in input level and output impedance, including 12V tubes without needing external power, and seems very resilient to using exotic less commonly used tube combinations and adapters, within the limits of it's max heater current of 1A. My Ember had no problems with Frankenstein, probably because it's a much simpler amp with only one tube. That makes rolling cheaper as well, of course.
  
 Ember is a great amp to 'cut your teeth' on but Elise is more expansive and controlled with all the gains that brings.
  
 PS. My favourite G1217 amp is actually Horizon.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Welcome Tony to this expanding Elise family. I look forward to your getting it. You might beat @geetarman49 to it. Customs is still testing his.


 
 What on earth could customs be doing with Elise?


----------



## UntilThen

To find out if it's hype or fact.


----------



## RedBull

howie13 said:


> Hi RedBull
> 
> I don't think there is any virtue in doing direct comparisons between Ember2 and Elise as they are very different types of amps and very different in price.
> 
> ...




Glad to know that Elise sounds more expansive. I love Ember so much I won't sell it even though Elise is better. I even still have Vali.




untilthen said:


> To find out if it's hype or fact.




Ha ha ha ...


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> According to my understanding the Elise is wired in such a way that what counts is the total current draw of all four tubes. As an example, if you have the power tubes on external power, you should be able to use a pair of 6AS7 as drivers, drawing 5A together.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was a makeshift Faraday cage, thought up by an inventive, imaginative person on the Ember thread (not by me).
  
 It's an IKEA utensil container, inverted over the single 6A6 - fortunately it just fits nicely, and then an earth wire is hooked into one of the holes in the container and connected to an earth point on an old America Audio equaliser on which Ember is resting. The equaliser isn't in use and doesn't even need to be switched on, but it does need to be plugged into the mains socket by it's earthed 3 pin UK type plug. Works a treat. Most gratifying to go from loud hum to total silence with the touch of a wire.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> Glad to know that Elise sounds more expansive. I love Ember so much I won't sell it even though Elise is better. I even still have Vali.
> Ha ha ha ...


 
  
 They are very different and Elise is well worth it's price, and more. You will immediately hear Elise's quality with its stock tubes. However, I'm sure your experience with Ember will stand you in good stead when rolling with Elise.
  
 I've also kept my Ember. I find it a good standard to refer to when comparing with other amps as I'm so used to Ember's sound.
  
 I'm glad you didn't ask me to compare the other 'E'- Expressivo to Ember, that's a contest I have not yet engaged in (just in case anyone posts to ask me, LOL)
  
 PS I have Vali2 in bed.


----------



## connieflyer

Redbull, that is what I thought too but after having the Elise for a few months,realized I had not turned ember on at all,nor wanted to, I sold it here on Headfi with most of the tubes that used except for some 6sn7s. I also upgraded in that time frame,from the 650,s 700's to the 800. Just before I sold the ember I turned it on with my favorite combo,dual 6L5 and listened for a bit just to make sure everything worked correctly and while it still sounded good, the Elise ticked all the boxes better. I am not sorry I sold it, I heard from the buyer and he is enjoying it. But the Elise is a whole different animal. When I put the 800 back on it just felt complete again. I always judge a possession by how much I regretted parting with it. Do not miss any of the phones or amps I have had. Jriver PSAUDIO dac,Elise, to 800 phones, any changes to this is done with tubes. Since wife's passing moved everything to the main system and use the Elise as a preamp, and that is also excellent.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Redbull, that is what I thought too but after having the Elise for a few months,realized I had not turned ember on at all,nor wanted to, I sold it here on Headfi with most of the tubes that used except for some 6sn7s. I also upgraded in that time frame,from the 650,s 700's to the 800. Just before I sold the ember I turned it on with my favorite combo,dual 6L5 and listened for a bit just to make sure everything worked correctly and while it still sounded good, the Elise ticked all the boxes better. I am not sorry I sold it, I heard from the buyer and he is enjoying it. But the Elise is a whole different animal. When I put the 800 back on it just felt complete again. I always judge a possession by how much I regretted parting with it. Do not miss any of the phones or amps I have had. Jriver PSAUDIO dac,Elise, to 800 phones, any changes to this is done with tubes. Since wife's passing moved everything to the main system and use the Elise as a preamp, and that is also excellent.


 
 Do you still listen with all of your headphones? or is it only the HD-800?  There are enough previous Ember owners that have moved on to the Elise so I'm quite sure that it will be a worthwhile investment/upgrade but I'm not sure that it will be able to drive all the headphones that I currently have, unless someone can state otherwise?

 Maybe I need to start thinning my heard of headphones and amps, maybe that will make deciding on a amp or two easier to replace my Ember/Lyr2/Asgard2/BH Crack
  
 Hope everyone is have a great 4th of July weekend


----------



## connieflyer

I sold two pair of 650s, the 700s, and tried the Beyer T1 version 1 600 ohms but the left driver went muddy on me, had to return for full credit and bought the Senn 800, original version, not the newer S version, as I had read a few reviews that did not like the way the treble peal was handled and the bass increase sounded not as clear as the original.  Very glad I did as these are the best I have had.  The 700's were pretty close, but the sound-stage was not as large or as clearly defined.  If the amps you have will drive your headphones I see no reason that the Elise would not. The power curve on the ember did not drive the 800s as well as the Elise.  Never have had to go past 12 o'clock position on Elise to be very loud and completely satisfying. Using the Elise as a pre-amp out to my Harman-Kardon 7200 now and it drives this combo great, just ask the neighbors, was thinking instead of turning it down, I would just take requests in the future!


----------



## pctazhp

More rain today in Scottsdale!!!
  
 
  
 Edit:  If this doesn't bring tears to your eyes, your soul needs an external power source:


----------



## RedBull

howie13 said:


> They are very different and Elise is well worth it's price, and more. You will immediately hear Elise's quality with its stock tubes. However, I'm sure your experience with Ember will stand you in good stead when rolling with Elise.
> 
> I've also kept my Ember. I find it a good standard to refer to when comparing with other amps as I'm so used to Ember's sound.
> 
> ...


 
  

  
 Don't worry, I won't Frankenstein-ish Elise, I am a standard setup kind a guy.  I 'mod' Ember as much as 6SN7, MAX!
 I like the clean look of Ms. Elise, so pretty.
  


connieflyer said:


> Redbull, that is what I thought too but after having the Elise for a few months,realized I had not turned ember on at all,nor wanted to, I sold it here on Headfi with most of the tubes that used except for some 6sn7s. I also upgraded in that time frame,from the 650,s 700's to the 800. Just before I sold the ember I turned it on with my favorite combo,dual 6L5 and listened for a bit just to make sure everything worked correctly and while it still sounded good, the Elise ticked all the boxes better. I am not sorry I sold it, I heard from the buyer and he is enjoying it. But the Elise is a whole different animal. When I put the 800 back on it just felt complete again. I always judge a possession by how much I regretted parting with it. Do not miss any of the phones or amps I have had. Jriver PSAUDIO dac,Elise, to 800 phones, any changes to this is done with tubes. Since wife's passing moved everything to the main system and use the Elise as a preamp, and that is also excellent.


 
  
 I guess you are the *one-amp-for-all-kind-of-guy*.   I ..... always regret selling any audio gear.  Selling Graham Slee Solo, regret, selling Darkvoice, regret, so ... I will never sell any audio gear, again.  Although I know it is not as good as my favourite, unless the sound is terribly wrong.   One piece of IEM I strongly considered selling now, IE8, even then, I still hesitant.
  

  
 For now, the best amp for movie watching is Ember, I am curious how Elise can topple that.
  
  
 .ps: *connieflyer*, my sincere condolences for the loss of your wife.  Hope friends here in head-fi can help to cheer you up.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> I sold two pair of 650s, the 700s, and tried the Beyer T1 version 1 600 ohms but the left driver went muddy on me, had to return for full credit and bought the Senn 800, original version, not the newer S version, as I had read a few reviews that did not like the way the treble peal was handled and the bass increase sounded not as clear as the original.  Very glad I did as these are the best I have had.  The 700's were pretty close, but the sound-stage was not as large or as clearly defined.  If the amps you have will drive your headphones I see no reason that the Elise would not. The power curve on the ember did not drive the 800s as well as the Elise.  Never have had to go past 12 o'clock position on Elise to be very loud and completely satisfying. Using the Elise as a pre-amp out to my Harman-Kardon 7200 now and it drives this combo great, just ask the neighbors, was thinking instead of turning it down, I would just take requests in the future!


 
 So you currently only use the HD-800?  If I only had the HD-800 and the other high z headphones then the Elise would be a no brainer.
  
 This is how I've been pairing up my amps and headphones:
  
*Lyr2:* HE-560, SRH-1840, TH-600
  
*Asgard2:* LCD-2, HE-400, M50x, MDR-7506
  
*UD-301:* EL8, RS2e, MDR-1A, L1, Woody SR-225i
  
*BH Crack:* SennGrado #1, K7XX, 650, 700, 800, T1
  
*Xonar DG sound card:* SennGrado #2
  
*Ember:* HE-400i, DT-990, SR-225e (modded), HD-600 (changing output resistance to match different headphones)
  
*AH-01:* K553, woody SR-60i, X1
  
 Any recommendations/comments
  
@RedBull, glad to see you back on the threads


----------



## RedBull

@DavidA, yup sir, glad to be back, plus folks in this thread are super friendly.
Seems we have common taste in audio. Great minds think alike


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> Don't worry, I won't Frankenstein-ish Elise, I am a standard setup kind a guy.  I 'mod' Ember as much as 6SN7, MAX!
> I like the clean look of Ms. Elise, so pretty.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes although I do roll a lot the fact is Elise's stock tubes are really good.
  
 A number of people refer to the fact that after rollng Elise, listening again to the stock tubes has demonstrated how good they actually are.


----------



## mordy

Hi audict123,
  
 Looked up your regulated power supply on eBay. It is only 5A so it would not be suitable for me. I am using a 12V PC 430W PS that is rated at 15A together with a 15A voltage regulator.
  
 It is quite possible that the wires I were using in the past were too thin, but I now have the 6x adapter with much thicker wires and there is no noticeable voltage drop with the 0.6A and 1.5A tubes.


----------



## geetarman49

untilthen said:


> Welcome Tony to this expanding Elise family. I look forward to your getting it. You might beat @geetarman49 to it. Customs is still testing his.


 
  
 what customs is testing is my patience ... haven't had this issue in a long, long time.  i got stax amps from russia and germany w/o this hassle.  on top of that, canada post is ready to go on strike any time now ... just hoping customs releases my amp & the post delivers before that happens ... nothing worse than having a tube amp delivered by a cranky post man who is legislated back to work.
  


davida said:


> @geetarman49, love the music selections


 
  
 thnx, DavidA  ...  i need to add more european jazz to my collection.
  
 **********
  
 p.s.  if i've failed to respond to a post addressed to me, my apologies ... fallen far behind & rushing to catch up.


----------



## connieflyer

Well, I accept your apology, however the offer of fivew million dollars was for a limited time only so since you did not respond within 30 minutes the offer was withdrawn.  I would have Feliks start a trace on the package, the shipper usually can find out more than and individual with just a tracking number.  If he finds it to be in customs, they should be able to tell him why the long wait.  Maybe some guy in the shipping cage at customs is burning in your tubes for you!


----------



## DecentLevi

So my Elise issue was determined to likely be at no fault of my own, and my old Elise will be exchanged for a new one, in time to display it at the meet. 
  
 I am very thankful for an outstanding service from Feliks Audio and would not like to cast any shadows on them because this seems to be a very rare exception to an otherwise perfect product; perhaps a faultuy potentiometer or solder joint. In my case it was a combination of skill and luck that my so-called "adventurous" tube rolling was within acceptable parameters after all - nonetheless I encourage due diligence and cautiousness for all who embark on any 'next frontier' of future tube rolling experiments with the Elise.


----------



## DecentLevi

@HOWIE13 I see you've updated your icon to the quad 6J5 + 6BL7 power tube combo so I take you're enjoying that one. One note I have however is to replace one of the Coke bottle shaped 6J5's on each side for a straight-form one (such as Sylvania instead of Zenith). My careful comparisons have shown me that this 'intermixed' combination (one straight + one Coke shaped on each side) results in a tone that is more organic and sweet than euphonic, and a lot less microphonic.
  
 Speaking of Faraday cages - I've tried this on the Elise but to no effect at all to eliminate hum. It was back when I first tried my FDD20's. I tried both methods: completely covering them in tin foil, grounded to the RCA jacks via the foil top, also numerous positions of my metal trash can around the Elise (clean, not touching). It seems this solution does not work for the Elise, and the problem was later attributed to my lousy power supply rather than the Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Very nice @DecentLevi - glad to hear that your amp will be swapped by FA!! Gets no better than that!

And on the FDD20's - I think any old half decent 12v power supply will do, but it does have to be properly grounded to run quiet.

Cheers!


----------



## Audict123

mordy said:


> Hi audict123,
> 
> Looked up your regulated power supply on eBay. It is only 5A so it would not be suitable for me. I am using a 12V PC 430W PS that is rated at 15A together with a 15A voltage regulator.
> 
> It is quite possible that the wires I were using in the past were too thin, but I now have the 6x adapter with much thicker wires and there is no noticeable voltage drop with the 0.6A and 1.5A tubes.


 

 Of course, that works fine too. Even more flexible at the max. current site. If there is no need to go to higher voltages this is cheaper: most people have an old PC power supply lying around. In fact, I did try that route but my powersupply was too clever and only wanted to provide current with a motherboard attached.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> @HOWIE13 I see you've updated your icon to the quad 6J5 + 6BL7 power tube combo so I take you're enjoying that one. One note I have however is to replace one of the Coke bottle shaped 6J5's on each side for a straight-form one (such as Sylvania instead of Zenith). My careful comparisons have shown me that this 'intermixed' combination (one straight + one Coke shaped on each side) results in a tone that is more organic and sweet than euphonic, and a lot less microphonic.
> 
> Speaking of Faraday cages - I've tried this on the Elise but to no effect at all to eliminate hum. It was back when I first tried my FDD20's. I tried both methods: completely covering them in tin foil, grounded to the RCA jacks via the foil top, also numerous positions of my metal trash can around the Elise (clean, not touching). It seems this solution does not work for the Elise, and the problem was later attributed to my lousy power supply rather than the Elise.


 
 I thought you might notice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I thought it was time for a change.
  
 I do like the power combo of 6J5+6BL7 and am sticking with it for now while I concentrate on rolling Drivers. I'll try your tweak, however, with some straight bottle Sylvanias I've got somewhere. They were the earliest 6J5's I bought, way back in those pioneering Ember days.
  
 I used to get bad hum with 6A6 tubes and Ember and that's when I used the Faraday Cage. Elise's background is silent with 6A6's as drivers, yet nothing has changed in my room/setup so presumably the hum with Ember must have been an amp thing. Did I also read somewhere that Elise has an anti-hum circuit?
  
 Actually, the K-R 6A6 drivers have given my Elise a unique coolness and 'sharp etched' clarity I have not heard before with her. It's not over bright or edgy though, just very appropriate for some of my fine detailed instrumental woodwind and brass recordings. This combination in Elise really brings these recordings to life.
  
 It's wonderful that Elise responds so effortlessly to the characteristics of different tubes and can achieve such treble clarity without ear-piercing fatigue.
  
 Here's a picture of my gorgeous Ken-Rad 6A6's, no longer confined to a metal cage.


----------



## Audict123

Could some of you report back how much heater voltage your Elises put out? Mine is quite low at 6.0 volts. That's perfectly within the +/- 5% margin that tube manufacturers recommended, but old NOS tubes tend to like a bit of higher voltage the first couple of hours (not lower) to 'wake up'. I wonder if the Elises that 'take everything' deliver more voltage, closer to 6.3.


----------



## HOWIE13

audict123 said:


> Could some of you report back how much heater voltage your Elises put out? Mine is quite low at 6.0 volts. That's perfectly within the +/- 5% margin that tube manufacturers recommended, but old NOS tubes tend to like a bit of higher voltage (not lower) to 'wake up'. I wonder if the Elises that 'take everything' deliver more voltage, closer to 6.3.


 
 How do you measure this?


----------



## Audict123

In both the front and rear tubes, the heater voltage is on pins 7 and 8. If you look at Elise's sockets from the front and start from the 'notch' that helps to insert the tubes correctly, they are the first and second holes in the socket to the left. Wait: here's a picture showing it clearer - it's the socket holes with the red lines next to them. It's the same on every socket. BUT: the voltage must be measured with tubes in. So one of the tubes must be inserted 'shallow' to enable contact with the measuring pins of a voltage meter. I* wouldn't want any of you to experiment if you are not comfortable to 'basic electronics'  - there is a risk for a shortcircuit if you touch two pins with one measuring pin of the voltmeter. *
  

  
  
 WAIT: there's an easier and more secure way for those of you who have EL3N tubes in use. The adapter for those has readily accessible copper contact points on top, directly next to the contact points of the tubes. They are accessible during play with tubes inserted normally.
  
 This is the pinout for EL3N tubes:


 Again the two heater contacts are indicated with the red lines. EL3N tubes have two 'sets' of four contacts, one set closely spaced, the other wide. You need to measure between the two center pins of the narrow spaced set.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah I think the Elise's anti-hummm circuit is the coiled wires from the transformer which has a de-humming effect, IIRC.
  
 I'll tell ya that photo looks amazing and I'll bet it must sound as EPIC is it looks... like a rare avant-garde artifact! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm glad we've finally struck down the notion that this power set up being something _dangerously adventurous_ to be a myth - instead it is a relic of a combo able to produce effortless immense 3D sonic bliss!
  
 At least that's what we on Head-Fi are now reaslising - and that's NOT saying much about the haters on the... shall we say 'trip overseas' website if you know what I mean... You know, the website that's not allowed to me named around here... the one with people making wild unsubstantianted claims. And now their official review of the Elise is that it's bass is "murky" with no sub-bass extension and lacking clarity... from which was tested by just 1 guy with stock tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

audict123 said:


> In both the front and rear tubes, the heater voltage is on pins 7 and 8. If you look at Elise's sockets from the front and start from the 'notch' that helps to insert the tubes correctly, they are the first and second holes in the socket to the left. Wait: here's a picture showing it clearer - it's the socket holes with the red lines next to them. It's the same on every socket. BUT: the voltage must be measured with tubes in. So one of the tubes must be inserted 'shallow' to enable contact with the measuring pins of a voltage meter. I* wouldn't want any of you to experiment if you are not comfortable to 'basic electronics'  - there is a risk for a shortcircuit if you touch two pins with one measuring pin of the voltmeter. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, but using both methods I just can't get a reading. Just 0 VDC.  Obviously my crap  technique as the tubes light up and the amp works fine.
 The multi-meter is working ok when I check a 9V battery.
  
 PS.  I did touch a couple of other pins maybe 2,8, not sure now, of the 6SN7 and reading of 16V came up. Don't know if that helps any?


----------



## geetarman49

connieflyer said:


> Well, I accept your apology, however the offer of fivew million dollars was for a limited time only so since you did not respond within 30 minutes the offer was withdrawn.  I would have Feliks start a trace on the package, the shipper usually can find out more than and individual with just a tracking number.  If he finds it to be in customs, they should be able to tell him why the long wait.  Maybe some guy in the shipping cage at customs is burning in your tubes for you!


 

 hmmm ... that 5mil sounds suspiciously like a nigerian offer that i received via email some time ago ... just sayin' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 cdnpost tracking shows elise to be in customs .. no ifs ands or buts -- as for why the long wait --- well, it takes roughly 1 wk after acceptance ffrom canada post before they even get to it. then they ascertain what it is & if they don't like the 'looks' of things, they ask for proof of purchase via copy of invoice and bill of sale/receipt  ...
  
 as for the notion of burning it in (it's happened, i suspect) haha ... i ordered w/o toobs.


----------



## geetarman49

howie13 said:


> Sorry, but using both methods I just can't get a reading. Just 0 VDC.  Obviously my crap  technique as the tubes light up and the amp works fine.
> The multi-meter is working ok when I check a 9V battery.


 

 either your probes are not making sufficient contact with the pins or you've got the wrong pins.


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> either your probes are not making sufficient contact with the pins or you've got the wrong pins.


 
 I did touch a couple of other pins maybe 2,8, not sure now, of the 6SN7 and a reading of 16V came up. Don't know if that helps any?
  
 I'm rubbish with tech stuff. No doubt someone else will try. 
  
 I'm seeing my friend Edward this afternoon. I'll see if I can borrow his multimeter, or better still ask him to measure it for me. I would be interested to find out.
  
 Meanwhile I'll stick to measuring batteries.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yeah I think the Elise's anti-hummm circuit is the coiled wires from the transformer which has a de-humming effect, IIRC.
> 
> I'll tell ya that photo looks amazing and I'll bet it must sound as EPIC is it looks... like a rare avant-garde artifact!
> 
> ...


 
 Well I can tell him who shall not be named that I have just listened to Bach's Organ Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, amongst other organ stuff, which has some of the loudest and deepest bass going and Elise WITH ITS STOCK TUBES is totally articulate and dynamic. Sound Level touched 110db, when the 32 foot organ pipes rumbled out their 16Hz. Not muddy, just vibrating bones.


----------



## connieflyer

Big deal, my bones rattle when I pass gas!


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Big deal, my bones rattle when I pass gas!


 
 ....but is it as pleasant as listening to Elise?


----------



## HOWIE13

geetarman49 said:


> either your probes are not making sufficient contact with the pins or you've got the wrong pins.


 
 Nephilim has kindly explained to me that I should be measuring AC not DC so I've checked again and all my sockets are reading *6.4V.*
  
 Hope this helps some, though it's only a cheap multimeter and maybe not particularly accurate.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Oskari

audict123 said:


> Could some of you report back how much heater voltage your Elises put out? Mine is quite low at 6.0 volts. That's perfectly within the +/- 5% margin that tube manufacturers recommended, but old NOS tubes tend to like a bit of higher voltage the first couple of hours (not lower) to 'wake up'. I wonder if the Elises that 'take everything' deliver more voltage, closer to 6.3.







howie13 said:


> Nephilim has kindly explained to me that I should be measuring AC not DC so I've checked again and all my sockets are reading *6.4V.*
> 
> Hope this helps some, though it's only a cheap multimeter and maybe not particularly accurate.




Next question for you both: What's your actual mains voltage?


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Next question for you both: What's your actual mains voltage?


 
 230-240V


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> 230-240V




Measured voltage? (Don't measure if uncomfortable with the idea.)


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Measured voltage? (Don't measure if uncomfortable with the idea.)


 
 I had a special plug which I would put into the socket and it reads all sorts of info about anything connected to it but I can't lay my hands on it just now. It was designed to tell you how much an appliance was costing in electricity.
 I last used it a few months ago-it always read a mains voltage of 230-240V.
 Is that the sort of thing you mean?


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> I had a special plug which I would put into the socket and it reads all sorts of info about anything connected to it but I can't lay my hands on it just now. It was designed to tell you how much an appliance was costing in electricity.
> I last used it a few months ago-it always read a mains voltage of 230-240V.
> Is that the sort of thing you mean?




Difference in mains voltage could explain the difference in heater voltage.

Say, 238 leading to 6.4 volts and 223 leading to 6.0 volts. Something like that.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Difference in mains voltage could explain the difference in heater voltage.
> 
> Say, 238 leading to 6.4 volts and 223 leading to 6.0 volts. Something like that.


 
 That's most plausible.
  
 It would be interesting to learn what audict123's mains voltage is.


----------



## Audict123

Good point Oskari. All voltages Elise produces are lineairly dependent on line voltage. Did check that in the past when I measured all Elise voltages for heater, cathode and grid. Line is 230-235 measured here. So 6.0 seems a bit on the low side to me.


----------



## DecentLevi

So are you guys measuring the Elise heater voltage in order to figure out how to further optimize this with an external option? I don't know about you, but I've been around the Elise threads for around 9 months and aside from perhaps the FDD20's, I don't see anyone complaining about Elises' performance in this regard


----------



## HOWIE13

audict123 said:


> Good point Oskari. All voltages Elise produces are lineairly dependent on line voltage. Did check that in the past when I measured all Elise voltages for heater, cathode and grid. Line is 230-235 measured here. So 6.0 seems a bit on the low side to me.


 
  


audict123 said:


> Good point Oskari. All voltages Elise produces are lineairly dependent on line voltage. Did check that in the past when I measured all Elise voltages for heater, cathode and grid. Line is 230-235 measured here. So 6.0 seems a bit on the low side to me.


 
  
 Yes it's lower than mine for a similar mains voltage, assuming my meter is accurate.
  
 Are all older NOS tubes quite heater voltage sensitive when it comes to sonic performance, or is it just certain tube types?


----------



## mordy

Hi,
  
 I measured the voltage on my Elise - 6.3V. (Stuck the probes into the heater pin positions 7 and 8 in a multiple octal adapter and used a DC scale 20V on my multi meter).
  
 Also measured the mains voltage. Using my multi meter, I stuck in the probes into the holes on an outlet strip, after setting my meter to the 200V AC scale. Right now it measures 122.1V (nominal 120V), but I found in the past that the voltage varies during the day a few volts up or down. To the best of my understanding there should not be a difference in the performance of the amp since I am sure that the circuitry is designed for these tolerances.
  
 As an aside, I also found that my amp sounds better at times when there is less electric usage (i.e. late nights, holidays, etc), supposedly because of less EMI and RF noise from appliances, motors and lights.
  
 Regarding old tubes being cranky- yes. However, I found that some of them need time to "wake up" after sleeping some fifty years or so, but once burned in they usually behave well. Regarding the FDD20 tube, I seem to remember that it was made for use in cars (I may be wrong on this). Although the electrical system in a car is nominal 12V, most car batteries read higher in the 13V range. Possibly such a tube could benefit for a little more voltage.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I measured the voltage on my Elise - 6.3V. (Stuck the probes into the heater pin positions 7 and 8 in a multiple octal adapter and used a DC scale 20V on my multi meter).
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mordy
  
 Is there any reason I obtain a VAC reading, and you obtain a VDC reading?
 Is it because we have different mains voltages?


----------



## DavidA

Almost went for a Liquid Crimson today, it was a great price, but I still think its got to be an Elise or the Liquid Glass.
  
 What happened to all the great music recommendations?


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> Almost went for a Liquid Crimson today, it was a great price, but I still think its got to be an Elise or the Liquid Glass.
> 
> What happened to all the great music recommendations?


 
  
 Here's what I'm listening to this morning: Mozart, Brendel and Ken-Rad.
  
 Elise handles it all with great aplomb.
  
 A sublime Sunday morning. For me it doesn't get any better.


----------



## RedBull

With LG, there's no way you can stack tube like Howie's Elise lego above


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> With LG, there's no way you can stack tube like Howie's Elise lego above


 
 Maybe a world record is possible?


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> With LG, there's no way you can stack tube like Howie's Elise lego above


 
 Just looked at a photo of LG. Doesn't look like there's much space around those two front sockets, unless the photo is deceptive.


----------



## DavidA

redbull said:


> With LG, there's no way you can stack tube like Howie's Elise lego above


 
 Too many earthquakes in Hawaii, it might fall over


----------



## DavidA

howie13 said:


> Just looked at a photo of LG. Doesn't look like there's much space around those two front sockets, unless the photo is deceptive.


 

 You're right, there is not much space for anything other than the tubes.  Did you notice that the sockets for the 9 pin tubes are actually horizontal?


----------



## RedBull

davida said:


> You're right, there is not much space for anything other than the tubes.  Did you notice that the sockets for the 9 pin tubes are actually horizontal?




Yes, I noticed, it's brilliant, but at the same time, it's kind of encourage people to use the octal more often as the noval position looks a bit awkward, look like plasma weapon ready to shoot at you, LOL.
I believe it sounds great tho.


----------



## RedBull

davida said:


> You're right, there is not much space for anything other than the tubes.  Did you notice that the sockets for the 9 pin tubes are actually horizontal?




I have an idea, stack two or three socket savers until it is higher than the top casing, then you can plug in your favourite dual tube socket. 
That might work, but don't ask my comment how it look like.

Sorry, doesn't mean to discredit LG, it looks beautiful on its own, my comment is just for fun. Cheers


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> I have an idea, stack two or three socket savers until it is higher than the top casing, then you can plug in your favourite dual tube socket.
> That might work, but don't ask my comment how it look like.
> 
> Sorry, doesn't mean to discredit LG, it looks beautiful on its own, my comment is just for fun. Cheers


 
  


redbull said:


> I have an idea, stack two or three socket savers until it is higher than the top casing, then you can plug in your favourite dual tube socket.
> That might work, but don't ask my comment how it look like.
> 
> Sorry, doesn't mean to discredit LG, it looks beautiful on its own, my comment is just for fun. Cheers


 
 Maybe Mrs X will design an adapter on stilts to poke out above the top casing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is a mellow tune, a Jazzy rendition of "Chim Chim Chree" w/Esperanza Spalding singing...



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=41&v=C_hKlqh1E5Q[/VIDEO]




Hope all the *LUCKY ONES* with the magic Elise soundstage...are having a great weekend.


----------



## pctazhp

It's a 3-day weekend here in the USA and I've got a little extra time and more random thoughts running through my head.
  
 I'm glad FA will take care of @DecentLevi. I don't know any of the details but it seems FA was fully aware of how the amp had been used, and was willing to assume responsibility - so all is good in Eliseland ))
  
 I personally don't care what people chose to do with or to their own amps. I am concerned when some of the rhetoric we use (me included - I plead guilty) to describe our own personal experiences jeopardizes the credibility of the thread and might frighten some potential buyers away. Especially when our words run the risk of suggesting to a potential buyer that the Elise is seriously compromised by the tubes chosen by FA and external power, Towers of Babel, adapters conceived in Transylvania and produced in China, or very expensive and difficult-to-find tubes will be required to achieve long-term, very satisfying listening enjoyment with the Elise.
  
 On a different point, I  have problems with some comments that have been posted elsewhere about the Elise. I am amazed at the arrogance of someone who will borrow the Elise for a few days, try it with a limited number of tubes (many of which are not specified) and then pontificate on its strengths and weaknesses. Murky bass??? Give me a break!!!!! Doesn't have the macro-dynamics or "authority" of the best tube amps???  I haven't heard the "best" tube amps but that sounds like a lot of babble to me.
  
 I find that in my system, 1-tube-per-socket gives me all I could want. And I feel no need to upgrade to a "better" amp. But that's just me.
  
 The main upgrade I want in my system is a headphone that combines the strengths of the T1 and HD800. When anyone discovers that, please let me know)))
  
 By the way, my experience in having spent a lot of time with both the T1 Gen 2 and HD800S with the Elise strongly suggests to me that any perceived limitations in the Elise are much more likely to be limitations of the primary headphone used to audition it rather than an inherent limitation of the Elise.
  
 Measuring heater amperage??? Sounds like great fun, but curious as to whether the goal is more than pure entertainment ))))


----------



## mordy

I am suffering from ATRW (Acute Tube Rolling Withdrawal). This is it - the end of the road. End game. Finito. (At least for now...)
  
 I have found the perfect combination for me and my equipment. Nothing bothers me, everything sounds stupendous. Bass, treble, mid range, sound stage, detail, emotion, impact, u r there, etc etc - EVERYTHING.
  
 Nuttin' more to do - just listen to the music. Enjoy.
  
But it gets a little boring... my fingers are itching to try something new. Did someone say perfection is boring?  Schhhhh...
  
OK, forget it. I am very happy.
  
I need a different challenge - I think I know what to do. Will try to find another $3 5998 as a mate to the one I got, or a really good deal on a pair of GEC 1834A under the Haltron or MOV (Marconi -Osram Valve) names.  Or a re-branded pair of Bendix 6080WB for $10.
  
Will try with old_guy_radiola to see what kind of bargains he has...
  
Naw, too difficult, or too expensive.
  
Maybe time to upgrade:
  








  
 Maybe a Mercury Vapor tube amplifier?


----------



## Suuup

mordy said:


> I am suffering from ATRW (Acute Tube Rolling Withdrawal). This is it - the end of the road. End game. Finito. (At least for now...)
> 
> I have found the perfect combination for me and my equipment. Nothing bothers me, everything sounds stupendous. Bass, treble, mid range, sound stage, detail, emotion, impact, u r there, etc etc - EVERYTHING.
> 
> ...


 
 God damn it Mordy, now I want a pair of 866A and make my own OTL tube amp. 866A as rectifier, 6C33C as power, 6N7G as driver. Does it get any better than that?


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah Towers of Babel, maybe that's a good nickname for the dual 6BL7 + quad 6J5 powers setup

  
 Man I agree with everything in @pctazhp's post above. Those on that other audiophile forum definitely have a whole lotta short-sightedness and lack of  scientific / evidence based procedures. Many of the members there are comprised of ex-members so I think a lot of their ways are just to spite Head-Fi for some kind of vendetta. Some of you feel free to go over there and show them 'the real deal' with the Elise, but I warn you @hypnos1 has already gotten cussed out left, right & center there just for trying to be helpful / honest, so you've been warned about messing with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also speaking of H1, I feel sorry for ya, and yes I've read your advice I'm being more careful.
  
 Also where is @UntilThen? Your absence has made me wonder if you're OK?
  
 And @mordy, what tube combo was that you said was your end game above?


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm also still wondering what was the reason for all the heater voltage testing?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> I'm also still wondering what was the reason for all the heater voltage testing?


 
 Just curiosity in my case, but I still don't understand why I am reading VAC and others VDC?


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Just curiosity in my case, but I still don't understand why I am reading VAC and others VDC?




Must have been with mordy's external heating arrangement which provides DC.


----------



## mordy

Hi all,
  
 I didn't find any who sympathizes with me about hitting the dead end or end game - just as well LOL.
  
 I'll try to answer the questions:
  
 Suuup, those guys will build you a rig for $50-60,000, and I don't even know if it includes all the pieces they show off. Here are two links:
  
 http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/vsac03/vsac_3.html
  
 www.electronluv.comhttp://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/vsac03/vsac_3.html
  
 Hi DescentLevi: In the past, on various threads, we had our share of nasty (and worse) attacks of people (some of whom are on certain medications by their own admission). My policy is to stay away completely from these types of discussions and not even read anything from these sources. IMHO nothing is gained by arguing with people who have an agenda. Far better to concentrate on positive and interesting developments. And of course, being friendly and tolerant.
  
 Regarding my favorite tube combination (for now) it is a pair of Philips EL3N as drivers and a mixed pair each of TS 6BL7GTA and TS re-issue 6SN7GTB on dual adapters as power tubes - no external power needed.
  
 I discovered that the set voltage at the tube pins changed for different tubes, necessitating an adjustment at my voltage regulator to remain at 6.3V at the tube.. As Howie13 points out, it could be a function of too thin wires to the tube sockets.
  
 Howie13: The heaters of the tubes can be heated with DC or AC current. I am using DC current from my power supply, so the reading would be in DC volts. JV uses a transformer that puts out AC voltage, so his reading would use the AC scale. I think Oskari already picked up on this.


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> Just curiosity in my case, but I still don't understand why I am reading VAC and others VDC?




Howie, Elise supplies AC out to the heater pins. I have a couple of different methods of external heating, one is DC, the other AC.

Heaters heat with AC or DC voltage. 

We have found DC is a little tougher, as you get hum/noises unless you are properly grounded (both Elise and the DC external voltage supply).

Hope that clears things up a bit...


----------



## mordy

Here is a better link for Electronluv:
  
 http://www.electronluv.com/
  
 Scrolled through the pictures - it is like entering a world where Retro science fiction meets tubes and Hi Fi. Cannot find any reviews how the stuff sounds, but the visual impact is undeniable...
  





  
















  
 This one is for Suuup:
  




_A VV45 (front) drives an 845 rectified by twin 866 mercury vapors (right blue tube) while an RCA 83 (last tube) rectifies the VV45. Power output is 20 watts, _
  
_This pic is for UT:_


----------



## DavidA

@mordy, that is some really outrageous designs, I would hate to see the bill for some of those creations


----------



## ericr

With all of those drivers not even close to being aligned, how could those big horn speakers ever sound right. Looks like Willy Wonk to me.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Howie, Elise supplies AC out to the heater pins. I have a couple of different methods of external heating, one is DC, the other AC.
> 
> Heaters heat with AC or DC voltage.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks JV- that does indeed clarify things for me.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Must have been with @mordy's external heating arrangement which provides DC.


 
 Thanks for pointing that out. Cheers.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I didn't find any who sympathizes with me about hitting the dead end or end game - just as well LOL.
> 
> ...


 
 Now I understand-thanks Mordy.


----------



## HOWIE13

Hey Guys
  
 Thanks for solving my AC/DC problems.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'll also thank @geetarman49 for his support via PM - expert advice but now worries now, I've got that Elise issue under wraps. Do you work in the electronics trade?
 I think you'll be getting your Elise soon too


----------



## RedBull

@DecentLevi, would you be so kind to summarize you problem with Elise in one or two words, so we all can also understand and learn from there?


----------



## Audict123

decentlevi said:


> I'm also still wondering what was the reason for all the heater voltage testing?


 

 I initiated that, with only one reason. Some people (including at least LordRaven and myself but there are more...) have no luck with 6N7G tubes and sometimes some others like FDD20. There is distortion at normal listening levels that sounds like clipping. It's not the tubes. Untilthen once tested some of these tubes that didn't work in someone else's amp (was it LordRaven?) and in his amp they played fine!  I'm trying to figure out what discerns the 'picky' Elises from the normal ones. I'm curious by nature and don't easily give up on a problem. Not hampered by proper knowledge on electronics but trained as a researcher I look for properties that can easily be measured objectively. If I raise thee heater voltage for the driver to at least 6.4 real volts, 6N7G's play well. My Elise puts out 6.0 by itself. The difference is apparently enough to make it play consistently. I just want to understand and hopefully others with problems will benefit from that understanding too. It would be a pity if they cannot use tubes that others report to love.


----------



## HOWIE13

audict123 said:


> I initiated that, with only one reason. Some people (including at least LordRaven and myself but there are more...) have no luck with 6N7G tubes and sometimes some others like FDD20. There is distortion at normal listening levels that sounds like clipping. It's not the tubes. Untilthen once tested some of these tubes that didn't work in someone else's amp (was it LordRaven?) and in his amp they played fine!  I'm trying to figure out what discerns the 'picky' Elises from the normal ones. I'm curious by nature and don't easily give up on a problem. Not hampered by proper knowledge on electronics but trained as a researcher I look for properties that can easily be measured objectively. If I raise thee heater voltage for the driver to at least 6.4 real volts, 6N7G's play well. My Elise puts out 6.0 by itself. The difference is apparently enough to make it play consistently. I just want to understand and hopefully others with problems will benefit from that understanding too. It would be a pity if they cannot use tubes that others report to love.


 
  
 That's perfectly understandable Audict123.
  
 As you now know I am running at 6.4V, at least on yesterday's mains voltage.
 Could you just confirm whether you are talking about 6N7 tubes as powers or drivers?
 I've had no problem with them as drivers but have not used them as power tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

audict123 said:


> I initiated that, with only one reason. Some people (including at least LordRaven and myself but there are more...) have no luck with 6N7G tubes and sometimes some others like FDD20. There is distortion at normal listening levels that sounds like clipping. It's not the tubes. Untilthen once tested some of these tubes that didn't work in someone else's amp (was it LordRaven?) and in his amp they played fine!  I'm trying to figure out what discerns the 'picky' Elises from the normal ones. I'm curious by nature and don't easily give up on a problem. Not hampered by proper knowledge on electronics but trained as a researcher I look for properties that can easily be measured objectively. If I raise thee heater voltage for the driver to at least 6.4 real volts, 6N7G's play well. My Elise puts out 6.0 by itself. The difference is apparently enough to make it play consistently. I just want to understand and hopefully others with problems will benefit from that understanding too. It would be a pity if they cannot use tubes that others report to love.




Interesting, you may well be on to something @Audict123...

Definitely we have amps that don't like certain tubes. I had reported last Feb here that #0019 had 6.7 volts AC at the heater pins with no load. I remeasured again last night while the default tube compliment was in, and mine measures exactly 6.0 volts. 

Mine does run 6N7G beautifully, never a hint of distortion, that others have reported.
My amp, however makes a mess of EL3N that so many others say sounds good, 


Cheers...


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Interesting, you may well be on to something @Audict123...
> 
> Definitely we have amps that don't like certain tubes. I had reported last Feb here that #0019 had 6.7 volts AC at the heater pins with no load. I remeasured again last night while the default tube compliment was in, and mine measures exactly 6.0 volts.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had no problem using 6N7's as drivers and have just tried them as power tubes using 6SN7's as drivers and again no distortion or other problem.
 I did notice the volume needed turning up a bit compared to the dual 6J5 and 6BL7 powers for each channel, but it sounded none the worse for that.
  
 I measure 6.4V with load, (touching the 7,8 pins of the driver whilst it's partially inserted and glowing) and 6.5V with no load, (inserting the pins of my multi-meter into a socket saver, as Elise's sockets are too thin to insert the multimeter pins).
  
 I hope I did this right.
  
 So far EL3N's sound good too, but have not had much time with them.


----------



## geetarman49

decentlevi said:


> I'll also thank @geetarman49 for his support via PM - expert advice but now worries now, I've got that Elise issue under wraps. Do you work in the electronics trade?
> I think you'll be getting your Elise soon too


 

 your are welcome (always), DL.  i used to ... attended quite a few trade shows too.  & i did see the electronluv devices (quite a few yrs back).  i haven't heard any of the recent gear, but the visual impact was so stunning that one literally (almost) forgot about the sonics ... sort of like seeing a lambo countach parked curbside beside you with its doors scissored open, yet on (your) hi-way you'd rather be driving a porsche ... but that's just my opinion.
  
 as i said, i haven't heard them in a while so things may have changed.


----------



## mordy

Hi ericr,
  
 Looking at those Elektronluv creations, I think that you have to approach them as expressions of art rather than pieces of Hi Fi equipment.


----------



## Audict123

howie13 said:


> I've had no problem using 6N7's as drivers and have just tried them as power tubes using 6SN7's as drivers and again no distortion or other problem.
> I did notice the volume needed turning up a bit compared to the dual 6J5 and 6BL7 powers for each channel, but it sounded none the worse for that.
> 
> I measure 6.4V with load, (touching the 7,8 pins of the driver whilst it's partially inserted and glowing) and 6.5V with no load, (inserting the pins of my multi-meter into a socket saver, as Elise's sockets are too thin to insert the multimeter pins).
> ...


 

 Thanks for reporting your measurement Howie13. Yes, I meant distortion with the use of 6N7G's as drivers. I'm happy your Elise works fine with these right out of the box. 6.4 V on the heaters is clearly higher than mine (6.0) but it doesn't explain things as Vinylsavor also has 6.0V and his Elise has no problem at all with 6N7G. The differences between amps may well be elsewhere. E.g. , in the cathode resistor that controls the working point of the tubes. I'm giving up on this: I think it requires someone with real insight in tube amplifier design to reliably assess what is going on with this (otherwise minor) variation between Elises. The good news is : now I have an external power supply, I can raise the heater voltage a little and that is enough to get 6N7G running in my amp reliably. Being pragmatic can be a good thing. Also, I'd like to remark that I'm not blaming Feliks for this variation between amps. Sure, I'd like it to play with every tubes that others report BUT it would be unfair to claim it should work with tubes that it was not designed for and that may be close to 'out of specs' for this amp.


----------



## HOWIE13

audict123 said:


> Thanks for reporting your measurement Howie13. Yes, I meant distortion with the use of 6N7G's as drivers. I'm happy your Elise works fine with these right out of the box. 6.4 V on the heaters is clearly higher than mine (6.0) but it doesn't explain things as Vinylsavor also has 6.0V and his Elise has no problem at all with 6N7G. The differences between amps may well be elsewhere. E.g. , in the cathode resistor that controls the working point of the tubes. I'm giving up on this: I think it requires someone with real insight in tube amplifier design to reliably assess what is going on with this (otherwise minor) variation between Elises. The good news is : now I have an external power supply, I can raise the heater voltage a little and that is enough to get 6N7G running in my amp reliably. Being pragmatic can be a good thing. Also, I'd like to remark that I'm not blaming Feliks for this variation between amps. Sure, I'd like it to play with every tubes that others report BUT it would be unfair to claim it should work with tubes that it was not designed for and that may be close to 'out of specs' for this amp.


 
 I'm the same as you-once I get my teeth into something I can't easily let go but as you say it's a minor variation and you have lots of other great options so it's not that important I guess in the grand scheme. Maybe even different tubes of the same type will behave differently too.
  
 Perhaps also variation in mains voltage affects things in ways we don't understand as well, as others have remarked.
  
 If we didn't stop investigating sometimes we would never have time to enjoy the music. lol.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well this threadz' been in a lull for a while, time to spice it up a bit. @JazzVinyl and @UntilThen you should especially find these interesting:
  
  
Hi-Res 24/94 vs Flac vs CD vs Mp3 files download comparison - Page 8
http://www.head-fi.org/t/720547/hi-res-24-94-vs-flac-vs-cd-vs-mp3-files-download-comparison/105 The Myths of vinyl
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)


----------



## JazzVinyl

The great Joe Zawinul - 6AM Walking On The Nile...

RIP Joe....we loved ya!!

Peace to the LUCKY ONES with the magic soundstage....

Happy Soul Travelin'......


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8l7lzEfrA0[/VIDEO]


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Well this threadz' been in a lull for a while, time to spice it up a bit. @JazzVinyl
> and @UntilThen
> you should especially find these interesting:
> 
> ...




I certainly have vinyls that sound better than the CD - if you heard them side by side, no argument, you would agree..

But, I don't think one medium is automatically "better" than the other.

It's how much $$$ was spent on the Mastering that makes ALL the difference...in either medium.

I also have CD's that sound way better than Vinyls. So again, it's the mastering, this is where the magic is made, or lost.

Cheers, *LUCKY PEEPS*!!

P.S. -
Be happy that we live in an age when thousands of perfect sounding songs fit in your pocket, and you never need be away from your most beloved music.

We are truly *LUCKY*...!!!!





.


----------



## velvetx

pctazhp said:


> It's a 3-day weekend here in the USA and I've got a little extra time and more random thoughts running through my head.
> 
> I'm glad FA will take care of @DecentLevi. I don't know any of the details but it seems FA was fully aware of how the amp had been used, and was willing to assume responsibility - so all is good in Eliseland ))
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually I don't think it takes away from the Elise at all.  From everyone's findings here it seems to me like a very capable tube amp.  However, the "modded" Elise is something you do at your own risk.  The fact that Feliks Audio is fixing this is going above and beyond and I hope that is realized here.  If I were an amp maker and someone did this to an amp I built I would in no way warranty this.  If amps were meant to accept multiple tubes in one socket they would have built them that way.  You don't know what is going to happen to something by adding your own take on how an amp should be.  Could shorten the life of the amp or anything inside it.  You have no way of knowing.
  
 There is no argument meant to be had here as it's very simple.  Every manufacturer has this disclosure on their instruction manuals for a reason and there is no grey area to be had.
  
*Our limited warranty is void if the product is returned with tampered labels, any alternations or in case of improper use.*


----------



## pctazhp

velvetx said:


> Actually I don't think it takes away from the Elise at all.  From everyone's findings here it seems to me like a very capable tube amp.  However, the "modded" Elise is something you do at your own risk.  The fact that Feliks Audio is fixing this is going above and beyond and I hope that is realized here.  If I were an amp maker and someone did this to an amp I built I would in no way warranty this.  If amps were meant to accept multiple tubes in one socket they would have built them that way.  You don't know what is going to happen to something by adding your own take on how an amp should be.  Could shorten the life of the amp or anything inside it.  You have no way of knowing.
> 
> There is no argument meant to be had here as it's very simple.  Every manufacturer has this disclosure on their instruction manuals for a reason and there is no grey area to be had.
> 
> *Our limited warranty is void if the product is returned with tampered labels, any alternations or in case of improper use.*


 
 If your comments are directed at me, you are pretty much preaching to the choir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm a 1-tube-per-socket kind of guy. And while I may get wild and crazy and run something like the TS7236s in the power sockets, I don't wonder very far off the farm.


----------



## velvetx

Nope not directed at you at all just reinforcing that this type of modding shouldn't be supported.  It should actually be laughed at and shunned.


----------



## mordy

Hi velvetx,
  
 Saw that you have a  ohhgourami modded HE-6. Does it include all the mods?
  

Vegan Audeze pads
ALO Ref 8 cable
Seat belt pad on headband
Grills and cotton wadding removed
"Fuzzor Lite"
  
 Does it look like this?


----------



## supersonic395

I'm enjoying the stock Elise with T1.2...a thoroughly enjoyable experience


----------



## JazzVinyl

supersonic395 said:


> I'm enjoying the stock Elise with T1.2...a thoroughly enjoyable experience




The magic soundstage!

It's easy to best the stock Russian Power tubes. You have lots of fun, yet to come


----------



## JazzVinyl

A precision, uncluttered, consistent soundstage. To me, that is what makes Elise so special.

I recently obtained a different tube amp that uses 1/2 the same compliment of tubes that Elise uses in its default specification. 

The other amp does one thing better than Elise. It has (to my ears) a much nicer bass note. And it is a nice sounding amp, overall.

When I compare the two side by side - Elise outshines the other amp, because of it's incredible soundstage presentation.

My test song was one by the jazz trio of young musicians: "Medeski, Martin and Wood" the song off the album "It's a jungle in here" is called "Moti Mo". It s a good one for this test because the trumpet player at one point passes air through his horn without actually playing any notes...it's subtle, it's a fine detail that was intentionally recorded, but has to be presented with distance, space and air between the instruments to recognize the sound, and appreciate its place in the context of the piece.

Elise digs out the detail beautifully and the trumpet player sounds like he is exactly 8 or 9 feet away from you, on your right. No other instruments crowd him. It sounds absolutely REAL because it's presented that way.

Same source into the other amp...and wanting to hear the same soundstage...does not happen. The other amp does not have the Elise soundstage magic.
Oh the sound is there, it's clear as a bell, but it's not isolated, does not exist in its own space and sounds like the other two musicians are standing in front of the trumpet player.

Both amps sound good.

But Elise really does a much better job of clarifying and placing the musicians just as though they are really there, in the same configuration they were in, when the music was created.

I applaude Elise....it's is a very special piece of gear, indeed.

Cheers to all the LUCKY ones, with Elise and its beautiful, precise and totally believable, soundstage.








.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yup, big props to an uncanny lifelike soundstage from the Elise. But I also love it's velvety, lush mids, instrument separation (depending on tubes used) and spot on tonality. Which was the other tube amp?


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> Yup, big props to an uncanny lifelike soundstage from the Elise. But I also love it's velvety, lush mids, instrument separation (depending on tubes used) and spot on tonality. Which was the other tube amp?




Other amp = Darkvoice 336 SE. Amps sound similar, it's the soundstage that separates them IMHO...


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Other amp = Darkvoice 336 SE. Amps sound similar, it's the soundstage that separates them IMHO...


 
 Totally agree. I've heard the 336SE and it couldn't separate or image individual instruments like Elise and that's so important for the music I listen to. 
  
 The 336SE is very nice sounding and great value for its cost-though I would give the edge to Expressivo as it can also, like Elise, image brilliantly.


----------



## RedBull

8 weeks+ and counting.


----------



## RedBull

howie13 said:


> Totally agree. I've heard the 336SE and it couldn't separate or image individual instruments like Elise and that's so important for the music I listen to.
> 
> The 336SE is very nice sounding and great value for its cost-though I would give the edge to Expressivo as it can also, like Elise, image brilliantly.


 
  
 Would it be more fair if Elise is compared to Darkvoice 337 instead?  4 tubes vs 2 tubes?
  
 Now since we are talking about Expressivo, how Expressivo compared to Ember?   Not SQ, it is very subjective, just the sound signature, what you like and what you don't like, pleaseeeee ....


----------



## JazzVinyl

redbull said:


> Would it be more fair if Elise is compared to Darkvoice 337 instead?  4 tubes vs 2 tubes?




The 337 uses a different tube compliment, but sure, buy me one and I'll be happy to compare them for you


----------



## RedBull

I mean the tube quantity alone, simple mathematics  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I used to have one, I kinda remember how it sound, just that I don't have Elise yet so I can't comment right now.  I wonder which is more powerful, 337 or Elise, hmmm.


----------



## JazzVinyl

redbull said:


> I mean the tube quantity alone, simple mathematics
> 
> I used to have one, I kinda remember how it sound, just that I don't have Elise yet so I can't comment right now.  I wonder which is more powerful, 337 or Elise, hmmm.




Funny enough the DV with 1/2 the number of valves, has as much gain as Elise. 

I prefer the DV 336's bass emphasis, but for all other attributes, Elise wins.

I'm sure you will be well pleased with Elise.


----------



## RedBull

jazzvinyl said:


> Funny enough the DV with 1/2 the number of valves, has as much gain as Elise.
> I prefer the DV 336's bass emphasis, but for all other attributes, Elise wins.
> I'm sure you will be well pleased with Elise.


 
  
 If 336 ~ Elise, DV337 gain must have been higher.  I'll report back once I get it.  Of course comparison just based just on distant memory.
  
 I remember DV337 sound laaaarge, with a lot of space between instruments. 
 Bass is down low, full and powerful, a bit slow perhaps, treble has proper decay with body, not just some splash up top, very nice and of course the gorgeous mids.


----------



## geetarman49

redbull said:


> 8 weeks+ and counting.


 

 & hopefully you'll not have an issue with customs ... mine is ... 'here, not here'
 --- 24 calendar days & counting in canada customs & still not released, despite mailing requested additional documentation 12 days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys.
  
 A MESSAGE FOR ALL THOSE WHO MAY NOT WISH TO JOIN IN THE MULTIPLE-ADAPTER TUBE/EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY EXPERIMENTS....
  
@pctazhp has just started a new thread for "One Tube Per Socket" (with or without adapter) preferences, encompassing all related matters and not just tube rolling.
  
 So now all tastes can be catered for in their own right, and hopefully cover a wider range of preferences. Although some may well disagree, I personally believe this to be the best course of action given recent "dramas" in this thread...I'm sure there is room for all those Elise owners with differing opinions - especially so in light of the universal agreement as to the wonderful qualities of this amp, including its amazing flexibility/versatility in operation.
  
 I myself have enjoyed immensely the past 18+ months of this thread - and my original one - and am glad so many are now also fortunate enough to experience what Elise has to offer. Feliks-Audio have most certainly come up with their most successful amp to date - of that I'm sure lol!!  And no doubt there will be a good many more lucky owners in the future.
  
 My best wishes go to the new thread, and indeed to ALL those who are most certainly "Lucky Ones"...HAPPY LISTENING, EVERYONE!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Link to said thread   :   http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-appreciation-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary


----------



## RedBull

geetarman49 said:


> & hopefully you'll not have an issue with customs ... mine is ... 'here, not here'
> --- 24 calendar days & counting in canada customs & still not released, despite mailing requested additional documentation 12 days ago :mad: .




Hope I won't have an issue like yours. That shucks.
Curious, what additional documentation are requested? I tought it's just straightforward as it's just an amp.
I had some issues with custom before because I am receiving a chemical sample, Aluminum paste. They wanna make sure I am not making a bomb


----------



## connieflyer

I really think Canadian customs is using it for awhile before deliver. Hope they get a new amp so Gman can get his.


----------



## DecentLevi

Did your Elise come with tubes, and does customs usually delay tubes to Canada? Maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe you can find a backchannel way to contact them in case it's gotten lost in the rummage or something.


----------



## geetarman49

redbull said:


> Hope I won't have an issue like yours. That shucks.
> Curious, what additional documentation are requested? I tought it's just straightforward as it's just an amp.
> I had some issues with custom before because I am receiving a chemical sample, Aluminum paste. They wanna make sure I am not making a bomb


 
  
 they wanted proof of purchase --- invoice identifying contents & receipt for payment .. all provided via paypal printouts


connieflyer said:


> I really think Canadian customs is using it for awhile before deliver. Hope they get a new amp so Gman can get his.


 
  
 that must be it ... those rotters ...


decentlevi said:


> Did your Elise come with tubes, and does customs usually delay tubes to Canada? Maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe you can find a backchannel way to contact them in case it's gotten lost in the rummage or something.


 
  
 ordered w/o tubes ... maybe that confuses them ... a tube amp w/o tubes


----------



## RedBull

geetarman49 said:


> ordered w/o tubes ... maybe that confuses them ... a tube amp w/o tubes


 
  
 Yeah, they don't know how to use em, turn on, no sound comes out, must be a BOMB !!


----------



## geetarman49

redbull said:


> Yeah, they don't know how to use em, turn on, no sound comes out, must be a BOMB !!


 

 haha ... maybe tube amps should be built so that if they don't have the full tube complement, they make a big farting sound ...


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> Would it be more fair if Elise is compared to Darkvoice 337 instead?  4 tubes vs 2 tubes?
> 
> Now since we are talking about Expressivo, how Expressivo compared to Ember?   Not SQ, it is very subjective, just the sound signature, what you like and what you don't like, pleaseeeee ....


 
 It's difficult to be definitive about Ember's SS because it can be changed so much, being so configurable.
 In general I like Ember's dynamics but Expressivo has a natural ease of delivery and refinement with all the drivers I've tried. I have not discovered any suitable alternative to the stock tubes for power rolling being not nearly as configurable as Ember but it has a good choice of 6DJ8's for drivers and it's sound stage and imaging are excellent.
 It's also generally quieter than Ember  and has three inputs (if you need them). I think, subjectively, Ember has a bit more gain.
  
 I would say if you want to learn the tricks of the rolling, configuration trade go for Ember. If you want a straightforward, flawless, good looker go for Expressivo. Both are excellent value.


----------



## geetarman49

those with elise at hand might want to give this a try:
  
http://t.ymlp51.com/hhqmagaejmwjaraquqagaujqymm/click.php
  
  
 fyi -- this should resolve to    http://truenorthrecords.com/album/900   (jane bunnett for those who may be too hesitant to try an unspecified link)


----------



## DavidA

howie13 said:


> It's difficult to be definitive about Ember's SS because it can be changed so much, being so configurable.
> In general I like Ember's dynamics but Expressivo has a natural ease of delivery and refinement with all the drivers I've tried. I have not discovered any suitable alternative to the stock tubes for power rolling being not nearly as configurable as Ember but it has a good choice of 6DJ8's for drivers and it's sound stage and imaging are excellent.
> It's also generally quieter than Ember  and has three inputs (if you need them). I think, subjectively, Ember has a bit more gain.
> 
> I would say if you want to learn the tricks of the rolling, configuration trade go for Ember. If you want a straightforward, flawless, good looker go for Expressivo. Both are excellent value.


 
 Did anyone have a chance to compare the Expressivo and BH Crack?  My thinking is that if I get an Elise I can use the power tubes (TS-5998, WE 421A and some Chatham 5998) that I have for the BH Crack and the driver tubes from my Ember/Lyr2 (mostly 6922/6JD8) with the Expressivo so I wouldn't be starting from zero with tubes for either Expressivo or Elise.


----------



## Oskari

Just a little note: the amp's called _Espressivo_. That's Italian for expressive.


----------



## DavidA

oskari said:


> Just a little note: the amp's called _Espressivo_. That's Italian for expressive.


 

 thanks for the grammar correction


----------



## RedBull

howie13 said:


> It's difficult to be definitive about Ember's SS because it can be changed so much, being so configurable.
> In general I like Ember's dynamics but Expressivo has a natural ease of delivery and refinement with all the drivers I've tried. I have not discovered any suitable alternative to the stock tubes for power rolling being not nearly as configurable as Ember but it has a good choice of 6DJ8's for drivers and it's sound stage and imaging are excellent.
> It's also generally quieter than Ember  and has three inputs (if you need them). I think, subjectively, Ember has a bit more gain.
> 
> I would say if you want to learn the tricks of the rolling, configuration trade go for Ember. If you want a straightforward, flawless, good looker go for Expressivo. Both are excellent value.


 

 You already have Elise, would you think that E*s*pressivo become redundant?
  
 You remind me how flexible Ember sound is.  Change output impedance to lower, sounds more SS, change to higher, tubier, more intimate, more romantic.


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> You already have Elise, would you think that E*s*pressivo become redundant?
> 
> You remind me how flexible Ember sound is.  Change output impedance to lower, sounds more SS, change to higher, tubier, more intimate, more romantic.


 
 I needed a second amp to use in our Spanish holiday apartment and Espressivo will suit fine for there.


----------



## HOWIE13

redbull said:


> Would it be more fair if Elise is compared to Darkvoice 337 instead?  4 tubes vs 2 tubes?
> 
> Now since we are talking about Expressivo, how Expressivo compared to Ember?   Not SQ, it is very subjective, just the sound signature, what you like and what you don't like, pleaseeeee ....


 
 Not sure about being able to compare Elise to the 337. 
 The 337 seems pretty much obsolete and I've found only one current seller in Hong Kong wanting $1245.
  
 I have heard a ridiculously cheap Chinese amp called a Nobsound which uses a single 6AS7 to power and a pair of EF95's as drivers. Euphonic and rich sounding with plenty of power. It was very cheap at about £115.


----------



## RedBull

> Originally Posted by *HOWIE13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The 337 seems pretty much obsolete and I've found only one current seller in Hong Kong wanting *$1245*.
> 
> I have heard a ridiculously cheap Chinese amp called a Nobsound which uses a single 6AS7 to power and a pair of EF95's as drivers. Euphonic and rich sounding with plenty of power. It was very cheap at about £115.


 
  
 What?  I bought 337 used at ~$200 with like 8 pairs of tubes, one of them is TS 5998.  It's like I got the amp for free now.
 The inflated price is more than Gold.


----------



## HOWIE13

You did very well there. Even the 336 has a good reputation. I would like to try the TS 5998 but costly to buy from N America just now especially with the UK Pound down in value so much


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Not sure about being able to compare Elise to the 337.
> The 337 seems pretty much obsolete and I've found only one current seller in Hong Kong wanting $1245.
> 
> I have heard a ridiculously cheap Chinese amp called a Nobsound which uses a single 6AS7 to power and a pair of EF95's as drivers. Euphonic and rich sounding with plenty of power. It was very cheap at about £115.




Hi Howie, I seem to remember someone opening up a Nobsound 'tube'amp and finding that it was actually fully SS - the tubes either had only the heaters wired up, or were included into the circuit in a way that meant they weren't actually doing any amplification. I may of course not be correct about it being Nobsound. I'll try and find the article.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Hi Howie, I seem to remember someone opening up a Nobsound 'tube'amp and finding that it was actually fully SS - the tubes either had only the heaters wired up, or were included into the circuit in a way that meant they weren't actually doing any amplification. I may of course not be correct about it being Nobsound. I'll try and find the article.


 
 Thanks for reminding me about that article-I read it too but can't remember where. I think I checked and it was a different amp but can't be sure. I'll try and hunt it down too.


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Not sure about being able to compare Elise to the 337.
> The 337 seems pretty much obsolete and I've found only one current seller in Hong Kong wanting $1245.
> 
> I have heard a ridiculously cheap Chinese amp called a Nobsound which uses a single 6AS7 to power and a pair of EF95's as drivers. Euphonic and rich sounding with plenty of power. It was very cheap at about £115.




Ah, here it is :

http://members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/jaycar/jaycar.html

Sure they do stuff which isn't just op amps... but it's best to be cautious IMHO.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Ah, here it is :
> 
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/jaycar/jaycar.html
> 
> Sure they do stuff which isn't just op amps... but it's best to be cautious IMHO.


 
 LOL You just beat me to it. Yes that wasn't the actual amp I heard but you never know what's going on under the covers even though it did sound good.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch and howie13,
  
 A ss amp with tube glow?! - seems the thing for WB2016's clients lol.
  
 BTW, what happened to WB2016?


----------



## JazzVinyl

no text
















.


----------



## DecentLevi

Gee it's lonely over here. Things are shaping up quite finely on Elise land X thread. I thought this post was useful enough to cross post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-appreciation-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/120#post_12714967
  
 I guess this thread will be mostly for 'adventurous' tube rolling anymore


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is something interesting....

I was never smitten with the C3g as drivers in the Elise. They were Okay...but did not sound as great as they did in my LD MK IV.

So tonight, I tried 2x 6AS7's in the power position and presto...it woke the C3g's right up and they have that famous "relaxed clarity" that I was so appreciative of, In my LD days.

Won't mention this in the other thread since they are against the use of "multiple tubes per socket" adapters!

But for those who are not afraid...2x 6AS7 per power socket is a winner for C3g driver use....(must use external power, of course, for the 2x 6AS7's, which draw 10 amps of current). 

Cheers!!


----------



## DecentLevi

That sounds interesting. What kind of adapter did you use for that, and how would you describe the sound signature?


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> That sounds interesting. What kind of adapter did you use for that, and how would you describe the sound signature?




Used the 3x per side 6BL7 adapter. Just left the middle slot blank on both sides. The adapter is external heat only, pins 7 and 8 not connected so no chance of blowing up your amp.

Sounds "professional" when the C3g is happy it has a relaxed precision sound, like anything you throw at it is child's play and it handles all with speed and accuracy. Like it's saying "this is easy, give something hard to do"...
The C3g is less colored than other tubes, it's very neutral honest and pretty flat, not emphasizing one freq over another. 
Super clean sounding tube (when it's happy). 




.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'll have to keep that in mind to try later, thanks. I've given away my C3G's and adapter though, but I'd recon 6SN7's may sound good with this pairing also too - each 6SN7 type can sound different so you may wanna try a few. Also I'm curious if your quad 6AS7's compare favorably or not to any other best six power tube setup; and which 6AS7's were used if you don't mind.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> I'll have to keep that in mind to try later, thanks. I've given away my C3G's and adapter though, but I'd recon 6SN7's may sound good with this pairing also too - each 6SN7 type can sound different so you may wanna try a few. Also I'm curious if your quad 6AS7's compare favorably or not to any other best six power tube setup; and which 6AS7's were used if you don't mind.





You gave away the c3g's and adapters? After trying them in Elise?

I used a pair is Chatham 6AS7 (copper rods) and a pair of RCA 6AS7's. 

3x 6BL7's per side equal 1x 6AS7 in power current. 

So, 2x 6AS7 is pushing a lot more current out to the phones, which C3g seems to appreciate. 


.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well it was several weeks back, after selling a handful of 6SN7's on eBay. The buyer claimed that the only one of the lot that he wanted didn't work (though they had all worked just fine in my amp before sending), so I sent him the C3Gs with gold adapters to 'right a wrong' so I could retain my 100% positive seller feedback. The C3Gs I got were those ones from that (German?) seller recommended earlier and just like the photos, they came all scratched / banged up and had horrid buzz/hum. Other than that, I agree nothing stood out with their sound otherwise. Seems they do have potential with your quad power setup, and maybe with the 6SN7's also.


----------



## HOWIE13

I've recently discovered C3G's too.
  
 I absolutely agree they are clean and honest sounding and can effortlessly handle wide variations of frequency and dynamics.
 The only thing is they take about 20-30 minutes, to my ears, to really sing sweetly and after then it's utter bliss.
  
 I don't know where to post anything now about poor Espressivo (note my correct spelling at long last 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) but the C3G is the only tube I've discovered, other than the stock 6N6P types of tube, that can be rolled as a power in Espressivo. Sounds beautiful with a pair of Bad Boys driving them. I should add, this is a totally unorthodox use of tubes for this amp which is also designed for ECC88 types of drivers. 
  
 For it's price Espressivo is hidden treasure, even with the stock tube set up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> I've recently discovered C3G's too.
> 
> I absolutely agree they are clean and honest sounding and can effortlessly handle wide variations of frequency and dynamics.
> The only thing is they take about 20-30 minutes, to my ears, to really sing sweetly and after then it's utter bliss.
> ...




Very nice, Howie.,,,

I wish I could audition the Espressivo -love the 3 inputs.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Very nice, Howie.,,,
> 
> I wish I could audition the Espressivo -love the 3 inputs.


 
 ...and there's a nice decent sized knob at the front to change the inputs too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> ...and there's a nice decent sized knob at the front to change the inputs too.




Yes, see that and I like the wooden sides. Too bad no front panel on/off switch.

How is the bass note, compared to Elise?


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, see that and I like the wooden sides. Too bad no front panel on/off switch.
> 
> How is the bass note, compared to Elise?


 
 Lukasz gives you a choice of wood shade as well but like Elise there is no front power switch. 
  
 It's not an Elise sound-wise, and that shows mainly in it's authority and depth and scale of the bass. It does have a big sound stage though, and pin-point imaging.
  
 Mind you, I haven't been able to explore all the potential of either of these amps yet.


----------



## tonyl59

My Elise arrives tomorrow! Looking forward to trying it. First will be Qobuz on iPad Pro via Hugo, Elise and HD800. This is going to keep me busy for a while...


----------



## JazzVinyl

tonyl59 said:


> My Elise arrives tomorrow! Looking forward to trying it. First will be Qobuz on iPad Pro via Hugo, Elise and HD800. This is going to keep me busy for a while...




Wow!

Very nice, Tony! 

You gonna love it, and remember, it gets better with use!


----------



## tonyl59

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow!
> 
> Very nice, Tony!
> 
> You gonna love it, and remember, it gets better with use!




I plan to give it plenty of that!

Cheers


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Wow!
> 
> Very nice, Tony!
> 
> You gonna love it, and remember, it gets better with use!


 
 Yes, I've noticed how it seems to be increasingly engaging me and drawing me more and more into the music.
  
 It's like Elise is metamorphosing into an instrument in itself, rather than being a reproducer of sound.
  
 Uncanny really. I've never experienced this before.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Interesting to read about the 4 x 6AS7/ 2 x C3g set-up - I have the same tubes and the 6 x octal adapter to try as well.
  
 In addition to the heater current requirements, there is another value that comes up in discussions: the plate current. One 6AS7 has a plate current of 125mA. It seems that there are concerns about matching the amp's plate current to the tubes you use.
  
 As an example, using tubes with a very low plate current (in comparison to the 6AS7), such as a 6SN7 with a plate current of 10mA, may lead to overheating (?) the 6SN7 tube and shortening it's life span. It seems that if you match the plate current draw to be within the design parameters you are safe. As an example the 6BL7 draws 40 mA, so three of them (120mA) is almost the same as the 125mA of one 6AS7.
  
 But what happens in your situation with four 6AS7? The plate  current draw would be 250mA. What I don't know is how flexible the Elise is in this respect. Is there a possibility of over driving the amp?
  
 For sure, there is a range of plate current that the amp can handle; I just don't know the range. One of the recommended tubes is the 7236, which has a lower plate current than the 6AS7 (100mA).
  
 Gibosi suggested that half of the 125mA should be safe for tubes, i.e. 60 mA, but I do not know his source for this. What about an upper limit?
  
 Perhaps somebody can shed light on this and how important this is?
  
 It is very likely that there are other parameters that also come into play.....


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Interesting to read about the 4 x 6AS7/ 2 x C3g set-up - I have the same tubes and the 6 x octal adapter to try as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is just the sort of infomation we rollers need. I'm amazed there isn't more discussion on these parameters, other than heater current which we all know about.


----------



## gibosi

mordy said:


> But what happens in your situation with four 6AS7? The plate  current draw would be 250mA. What I don't know is how flexible the Elise is in this respect. Is there a possibility of over driving the amp?


 
   
 My experience is with a different amp, but I too have been wondering about this....
  
 For example, my amp uses tube rectifiers, and therefore, I have to be careful not to exceed the rectifier's maximum DC output current. In his OTL, Glenn recommends the use a 3DG4, with a maximum DC output current of 350ma. And further, he is fine with my running four 6AS7. But of course, 350ma is not enough if four 6AS7 actually require 500ma. So I have to believe that Glenn has designed some circuitry into his OTL to limit the amount of current to no more than 125ma per 6AS7 socket. But I do not know... Someday I should ask him... 
  
 The Elise uses solid-state rectifiers and I have no idea what the maximum DC output of that rectifier is. And further, I have no idea if some kind of upper limit has been implemented on the current running through the 6AS7 socket. You will have to ask the manufacturer.... 
  
 Quote:


mordy said:


> Gibosi suggested that half of the 125mA should be safe for tubes, i.e. 60 mA, but I do not know his source for this. What about an upper limit?


 
  
 This was just a WAG! lol
  
 If placing a 6C8G or 6SN7 in a socket designed to handle 125ma will drastically shorten its life, but two 6BL7s (80ma) are OK, then perhaps it makes sense to think that about 60ma, or more, will likely be OK, and less than 60ma would be problematic. It just makes sense to me that using tubes with a maximum plate current considerably less than a 6AS7 would drive them much harder than they were ever designed, thus foreshortening their life. But again, this is a question for the manufacturer....
  
 Further, as Glenn has noted, when using multiple tubes, it is not simply a case of adding up plate currents. The proper biasing, that is, the cathode, grid and plate resistor values, for a tube with a maximum plate current of 10ma versus 125ma suggests to me that one or a couple 6C8G or 6SN7 is just not going to be "comfortable" in a 6AS7 socket. But maybe 10 or 15 would be fine? Again, I just don't know....
  
 On the other hand, 6SN7 and 6C8G can often be purchased cheap,  And it doesn't hurt the amp itself. So if you like the way they sound, and don't mind replacing tubes every so often, go for it.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy, I have seen the SS diodes used in Elise, and they are _at least_ 1 amp rated. In fact, they are beefier looking than the typical 1amp rated diode seen in this Wiki on the upper right photo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1N400x_general-purpose_diodes

Would not be surprised if they were the 3 amp variety.

Even at 1 amp, 4x 6AS7's would only demand 500ma or 1/2 amp for all 4. 
Your drivers are typically 10ma per plate (C3g data sheet says 13ma +/- 3ma) so add 26ma for both drivers, for a total of 526ma, you have 474ma to spare!

Not to worry 

*WERE TALKING [COLOR=FF00AA]PLATE CURRENT DEMANDS[/COLOR] HERE FOLKS - NOT THE HEATER CIRCUIT CURRENT DEMANDS....*


----------



## JazzVinyl

@mordy...

One more thing to note about "current draw"...

Any electronic device that demands current will "draw" only what it needs.

In other words 1x 6AS7 placed in the 6AS7 socket will "draw" 125ma at the plate and 2.5 amps at the heater circuit.

It's not that each socket is being fed with 125ma to the plate and 2.5 amps to the heater pins...inserting the 6SN7 in the 6AS7 socket, will draw 10ma at the plate circuit and 0.6 amp at the heater circuit.

So, think of it as:

Elise makes avail up to 7 amps to the heater circuits (for all 4 sockets)
and
Elise makes avail up to 1 amp for all 4 sockets for the plate circuit

So, various tubes will draw what they need, to operate correctly from that pool of avail current.

That's why I can run a 20amp transformer and not damage any tubes. 20 amps are available to tubes who will only draw from that source, what they need to correctly operate.

Cheers!


----------



## gibosi

jazzvinyl said:


> It's not that each socket is being fed with 125ma to the plate and 2.5 amps to the heater pins...inserting the 6SN7 in the 6AS7 socket, will draw 10ma at the plate circuit and 0.6 amp at the heater circuit.


 
  
 It is not the tube alone that determines the DC current. It is necessary to look at the tube as just one component of a circuit. And placing a 6SN7 in a circuit designed and biased for a 6AS7 will draw more than 10ma through the tube resulting in a foreshortened life.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gibosi said:


> It is not the tube alone that determines the DC current. It is necessary to look at the tube as just one component of a circuit. And placing a 6SN7 in a circuit designed and biased for a 6AS7 will draw more than 10ma through the tube resulting in a foreshortened life.




Right-o, I personally never got a sonic benefit from a 6SN7 in the power position and didn't do it.


----------



## mordy

I thank Gibosi and JV for your thoughts on the matter of plate current parameters. Another question I have is what happens when the power tubes are powered externally, and the driver tubes are run on the amp current. It seems to me that the amp must play a role in the electric current of the plates even when the heaters are powered externally.
  
 Going in the other direction of using a higher total plate current than for one pair of 6AS7, what happens inside the amp?
  
 It would be interesting to hear from the designers of the Glenn and Elise amps regarding this subject.
  
 The following may have nothing to do with the above subject:
  
 I ordered EL3N adapters from an *another *seller than Mrs Xu Ling. They worked fine for three weeks and then three of my EL3N tubes shorted out. I contacted the seller who claimed that they were wired differently than the Xu Ling adapters. Luckily for me the protective circuitry in the Elise shut down the amp and there was no damage. However, it took some time for me to realize that the amp needed time to reset itself. It would not turn on, so I left it sitting and feared the worst.
  
 In the meantime I did not realize that the tubes had shorted, thinking something happened to my amp. Instead i tried the tubes in a different tube amp, promptly blowing out one channel.
  
 The question I have is why it took three weeks before the tubes shorted out - could it be that they were driven too hard as power tubes and their life span shortened (I used 4 EL3N + 2 6BL7)? Or was it due to the defective adapters?
  
 The Elise is working just fine now, but my Little Dot MKIII has one channel dead with that dreaded burnt smell although all four tubes light up.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I thank Gibosi and JV for your thoughts on the matter of plate current parameters. Another question I have is what happens when the power tubes are powered externally, and the driver tubes are run on the amp current. It seems to me that the amp must play a role in the electric current of the plates even when the heaters are powered externally.
> 
> Going in the other direction of using a higher total plate current than for one pair of 6AS7, what happens inside the amp?
> 
> It would be interesting to hear from the designers of the Glenn and Elise amps regarding this subject.




I would love a representative of FA to actually participate on Head-Fi, as well.

Yes, even when you heat tubes externally, all the power going to all the plates is coming from Elise. Remember that Elise sends AC to the heaters and clean DC to the plates and cathodes.

Also remember the heaters are the big current consumers, all four tubes otherwise consume only a fraction of an amp for the other duties.
Nothing "happens" as long as you don't exceed the pool of available current for the plate/cathode circuits....

On your adapters....definitely odd that it took three weeks for the short to show up. 

Questions:

You had three EL3N's short out?
All at the same time?
Shorted across cathode/anode (plate)? 
All three that shorted were being used as powers when the short happened?

I had a C3g adapter short across the cathode/anode pins, and it blew a resistor in the DC power circuit.

I know you say there is a relay or something that protects against a shorted cathode/anode but I can assure you, there was no such protective circuit in my amp.

There is a simple fuse across the AC input - that's all.

I have a hard time understanding what 'reset itself' in your amp. unless your amp has a protection system that mine lacks.

But...I am DELIGHTED yours worked again after the short!!!!

On the LD, you most likely have blown something in the DC power supply that sends voltage out to the cathode/anodes - the separate heater circuit was unaffected.

But - I would have expected one DC power supply to supply voltage to both tubes pairs and therefore no sound at all.


----------



## pctazhp

As some of the regulars here may know, I'm not particularly a fan of external power and multi-tube adapters. But I have really been enjoying your discussion of the distinction between heater current and plate current. Very informative.
  
 My 6X adapter from Mrs. X is still in the drawer unwrapped, but I may get around to trying it at some point.


----------



## tonyl59

There's a box from Poland at home waiting for me


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Yes, I've noticed how it seems to be increasingly engaging me and drawing me more and more into the music.
> 
> It's like Elise is metamorphosing into an instrument in itself, rather than being a reproducer of sound.
> 
> Uncanny really. I've never experienced this before.


 
  
 Yo H13...uncanny indeed! ..and most welcome, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


tonyl59 said:


> There's a box from Poland at home waiting for me


 
  
 Well then, t59, drop whatever you're doing and RUSH HOME - Elise takes precedence around here, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad yours has arrived (hopefully!) safe and sound...we all look forward to hearing your impressions. What tubes do you have already/intend to be trying?
  
 If you can spare the time, please don't forget to let the guys over at the appreciation thread know how things progress.
  
 ps. Nice to see you have a good DAC to spoil her...(I make no apologies for referring to our sleek beauty in female terms, lol!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Welcome once more to our club...CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

tonyl59 said:


> There's a box from Poland at home waiting for me




Congrats Tony!

Your about to enter the land of the *LUCKY ONES*


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Will try to answer your questions best I can.
  
 I have three Xuling adapters and three of another manufacturer.
  
 Was using two EL3N as drivers and four EL3N as powers plus two 6BL7. This worked well for several weeks. The three new adapters were in the power sockets.
  
 Suddenly, in the middle of listening to music, the Elise went dead - no blue light. Tried to switch it on/off in the back - nothing. Tried with another A/C cable from a different outlet - nothing. Disconnected the amp and pulled out the fuse in the back. It looked OK; could not see any break, but there is a little ball in the middle of the thin wire. I never looked at it before, so I cannot say if it is original or not.
  
 In order to find out which tubes are still working (got confused and mixed them up and did not know which adapter they came from), I tried them in the Little Dot - you know what happened.
  
 Then I took the 6 x octal adapter without being connected to anything but the power supply and tried to check the tubes. Two of the tubes did not light up at all - dead;  the computer 15A PS shut off. Thought I lost that one too, but it came back to life after a while. Tried the two remaining tubes from the power sockets - they lit up.
  
 After a while I turned on the Elise again (with different tubes) and it worked as it should - big sigh of relief!
  
 Afterwards I put in my EL3N drivers and a pair of 7236 tubes and all is well. But, one of the three remaining EL3N tubes, although it works, does not sound good, so I assume that it is on it's way out and is going to short out.
  
 Don't know what the plate current is in the EL3N.
  
 That was a nightmarish day for sure.....


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...

You did not mention a 'loud sound' associated with your power tube short...?

Also, note that the fuse you see in Elise, comes with the AC socket they used:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4SR1T51584&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-HI+-+Power+Plugs+%26+Connectors-_-9SIA4SR1T51584&gclid=CI70nqL79c0CFQusaQodoDMLqg&gclsrc=aw.ds

It's there to blow if the AC leads meet each other (short). if not there, your wall panel fuse would blow (or in my case, a breaker switch would have tripped) if the AC shorts to one another.

I cannot explain why your unit went completely dead (like the AC fuse blew) but then worked again. The fuse if designed to blow the little wire inside and thus, a new fuse would have seemed to be, the only remedy. 

But....super glad your working again. Sorry for the busted EL3N's as they are not 'inexpensive' tubes....

Cheers...


----------



## mordy

No loud sound of any sorts; the amp just went silent and the power went off. The fuse socket is different than the one on your picture. There is a little drawer that you pull out, and the fuse is in there attached to the drawer.
  
 The Elise does have protective circuitry built in. Hypnos1 described it recently.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Will try to answer your questions best I can.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear of your loss mordy...a nighmarish day indeed.
  
 Am glad you're liking EL3N + 7236...a certain consolation, I suppose lol!
  
 You mentioned the new adapters were "wired differently" - I wonder _how_ different...and WHY!!!
  
 Hope you stay trouble-free from now on...CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> You mentioned the new adapters were "wired differently" - I wonder _how_ different...and WHY!!!




I don't understand this either, seems that only one wiring configuration to make the Pentode behave as a dual triode, would work?

+1 on 'trouble free' onwards...


----------



## Oskari

jazzvinyl said:


> Also remember the heaters are the big current consumers, all four tubes otherwise consume only a fraction of an amp for the other duties.




The plate voltages are higher than the heater voltage, though, and power = voltage * current.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> The plate voltages are higher than the heater voltage, though, and power = voltage * current.




Yes, I meant to mention that....

Heaters = low voltage @ higher current draws 6.3 volts and 7 amps max draw
Plates - high voltage @ very low current draws approx 200 volts and (lets say 1 amp) max draw (probably more like 3 amps)

Heaters = AC
Plates = clean DC

.


----------



## Oskari

Any transformer will have a total power rating as well as a limit on each winding.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > The plate voltages are higher than the heater voltage, though, and power = voltage * current.
> ...


 

 High voltage less then 1 amp more like .2  200ma for a amp that just runs two 6AS7s
 Maybe .3 amp 300 ma max


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> High voltage less then 1 amp more like .2  200ma for a amp that just runs two 6AS7s
> Maybe .3 amp 300 ma max




Yes, was talking MAX current avail, to that that circuit, Glenn...

.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> No loud sound of any sorts; the amp just went silent and the power went off. The fuse socket is different than the one on your picture. There is a little drawer that you pull out, and the fuse is in there attached to the drawer.
> 
> The Elise does have protective circuitry built in. Hypnos1 described it recently.




Hello Mordy...
My fuse box appears to be exactly what was depicted here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4SR1T51584&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-HI+-+Power+Plugs+%26+Connectors-_-9SIA4SR1T51584&gclid=CI70nqL79c0CFQusaQodoDMLqg&gclsrc=aw.ds





is also:
Same as the one shown on the FA web site....





Interesting, if yours is not the same 




.


----------



## JazzVinyl

oskari said:


> Any transformer will have a total power rating as well as a limit on each winding.




Right-o, Oskari...

.


----------



## mordy

HiJV,
  
 You are 100% right. In the beginning I could not see the little drawer on the picture of the power socket, but now I can see it clearly, and it is the exact same part.
  
 I am still unclear on the internal current draw in the Elise. In the specifications for the tubes, there are listed several values that correspond to different plate voltages.
  
 As an example, the values listed for the 7236 tube are:
  
 Plate voltage      plate current
  
 120                           100
   60                           150
 150                             60
 and then there is a stated maximum plate current of 190/plate at a maximum plate voltage of 300
  
 Can anybody throw some light on how to interpret these values and how they relate to usage in the Elise?
  
 As the 7236 is a recommended tube it is obvious that the Elise can handle them, but what happens if you use two 6AS7 as power tubes with a plate current draw of 250mA?


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> HiJV,
> 
> You are 100% right. In the beginning I could not see the little drawer on the picture of the power socket, but now I can see it clearly, and it is the exact same part.
> 
> ...




Hello Mordy...

Let's look at the 7236 "Typical Operating Conditions" chart again (where your numbers come from?):




It says for all three examples that you need 6.3 VOLTS +/- 5% @ 2.4 amps going to the heaters. So lets not discuss them again.

Read the operating scenarios top down as if in a column of data...

scenario #1
120 volts to the Plate and MINUS 14 volts of DC applied to the Grid, the plate current will be 100 miliamps, amplification of 4.8

scenario #2
60 volts to the Plate and ZERO volts applied to the Grid and the plate current will be 150 miliamps, amplification is not specified

scenario #3
150 volts to the Plate and MINUS 24 volts of DC applied to the Grid, the plate current will be 60 miliamps, amplification is not specified


You can see that the more negative DC voltage applied to the GRID makes the current draw, go down.

None of the above scenarios match what Elise is sending to the Plates/Grid so your running this tube outside any of these 3 stated parameters.


Good call, BTW, on the use of the fan to keep the bottle temp less than 150 degrees Celsius (or 238 degrees F).




Cheers!


----------



## tonyl59

My Elise arrived on Friday. This is my first valve amp and so far I'm absolutely loving it! I went for for the stock tubes, as I know absolutely nothing about them. I've been listening as much as I can over the weekend, paired with my trusty Hugo, switching between HD800, TH900 and PM-1. My preference at the moment, probably surprisingly to most of you, is the Oppo PM-1 with velour pads with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cabling. I know now what you mean about the black background, improved separation and instrument placement and sheer musicality. Lovely!
I'll get some better impressions soon but just wanted to let you know my first thoughts and to say thanks for the welcome.
Night all...


----------



## JazzVinyl

tonyl59 said:


> My Elise arrived on Friday. This is my first valve amp and so far I'm absolutely loving it! I went for for the stock tubes, as I know absolutely nothing about them. I've been listening as much as I can over the weekend, paired with my trusty Hugo, switching between HD800, TH900 and PM-1. My preference at the moment, probably surprisingly to most of you, is the Oppo PM-1 with velour pads with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cabling. I know now what you mean about the black background, improved separation and instrument placement and sheer musicality. Lovely!
> I'll get some better impressions soon but just wanted to let you know my first thoughts and to say thanks for the welcome.
> Night all...




Excellent, Tony!

Glad you have the amp and it pleases you. It gets better the more hours in!

Enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> As the 7236 is a recommended tube it is obvious that the Elise can handle them, but what happens if you use two 6AS7 as power tubes with a plate current draw of 250mA?




I thought we had this covered earlier, Mordy:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/12585#post_12722042

Sounds like you still want to know why your amp shutdown.

I think you had a heater AC short, rather than an anode/cathode short. That would account for the "whole amp shutdown" and lack of SONIC BOOM before the shutdown.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > HiJV,
> ...


 

 In the Elise the 6AS7s are not being used as amplifiers they are cathode followers with 0 gain. All gain is in the 6SN7.
 Hard to say what the current in the tube is. With a cathode follower if there is 120 volts on the plate and 50 on the grid there will be approx 50 on the cathode.
 The output is off the cathode.  There is a high wattage resistor from the cathode to ground the current in the 6AS7 will be according to what the cathode resistor is.
 The current is going to be the same no matter how many 6AS7s you parallel on the output .  The voltage across this cathode resistor will remain the same


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> In the Elise the 6AS7s are not being used as amplifiers they are cathode followers with 0 gain. All gain is in the 6SN7.
> Hard to say what the current in the tube is. With a cathode follower if there is 120 volts on the plate and 50 on the grid there will be approx 50 on the cathode.
> The output is off the cathode.  There is a high wattage resistor from the cathode to ground the current in the 6AS7 will be according to what the cathode resistor is.
> The current is going to be the same no matter how many 6AS7s you parallel on the output .  The voltage across this cathode resistor will remain the same




In your opinion, @2359glenn, is there a sonic benefit to running 2x 6AS7's in a cathode follower amp?

.


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > In the Elise the 6AS7s are not being used as amplifiers they are cathode followers with 0 gain. All gain is in the 6SN7.
> ...


 

 Yes it will still lower the impedance to some extent but not a big gain.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello all, I just came back from the SF Head-Fi meet yesterday at Wikia, and spent the whole day displaying multi-tube configs and blowing the mind of almost all who tried it! And it seems there were dozens more than the 150 in attendance that was projected.
  
 I came early and was graced with a spot in the center of huge center standing table in the middle of everything. Sandwiched right in between my buddy Lyova at Tru-Fi speakers which is a small home business that I basically co-founded with him, and a local exhibitor of Schiit Audio. Until around noon I displayed a 6 tube configuration (2x 6SN7 drivers, 2x 6BL7 + 2x 6SN7 powers intermixed) and got some very high words of praise. For the next 6 hours I graced / schocked everyone with my newly coined "Christmas tree" setup (sorry this aint' no _Frankensetin_), which consists of 2x 6BL7 + 4x 6J5 as powers (anyone new, see the link below for the visual). For the drivers with this 8 tube config., it was usually 2x EL3N, then returning to 2x 6SN7 towards the end - of which is really the best combo so far I've found with the _Christmas tree_ powers setup. (more sweet / dynamic).
  
 Vague overview of first time impressions of peoply trying my Elise:
  

TWO people both told me that was the best they've ever heard the HD 650
Somebody said he's always known the HD 650 sings with tubes, but now he'd like to try it
Two guys seemed to be noticeably moved, and the one who plugged in his own source especially so, covering his face with his hands and seeming quite emotionally taken aback afterwards
At least one person was quite agape that its' cost is only $700, who had guessed it's closer to $1,500
Once one person started listening, the _Christmas tree_ tube setup disappears (to which I agree), and it "gave the Liquid Carbon a run for it's money" (he's the 3rd person to agree on Elise vs. LC). See the post and photo *here*
Mid-afternoon I summed my good buddy Jude over to try it (the owner of Head-Fi), and albeit not the most detailed review, here were a few random comments he made:
 "I like it because it looks so beautiful", he said after asking if he likes it.
 "I'm not gonna try to put a price tag on it after just listening to one song from Michael Jackson and Billy Joel" (or something to that tune), after asking him how much he thinks it's worth. Basically he seemed to say that he's not spent enough time to judge it's performance yet. Also his being the owner of Head-Fi and attending dozens of meets every year and trying the most expensive top amps he certainly has heard even better. He seemed to not know what the Elise was so I had tried to jog his memory that this used to be the #1-2 thread on Head-Fi (or maybe he didn't recognize it with my tube config.) I think he was impressed with it nevertheless, and gave it a good 3-4 min. listen with varying tracks (on the _Christmas tree_ + 2x EL3N setup)
  
  
 One point I'd like to make is that I have had a _Christmas tree_ setup (6 driver tubes) for nearly the whole day, and for around 48 hours prior to the meet, on my new Elise without one sign of ill effects. It was smooth sailing and I truly believe that this was not the cause of the fault of my previous Elise, and anybody on the sidelines of this configuration can rest assured that it is compatible both electronically and schematic-wise. Howie13 has also had no undue effects with this same setup. Of course I won't claim this to be the all-time best or a single solution, because honestly I prefer this only for more acoustic / analogue-ish recordings, whereas electronic music seems to favor a more modest setup.
  
 Also note that all these great impressions were from my new Elise that was only around half way burned in with 100 hours on it.
  
 Moreover the day was spent trying super amazing gear, much of which you can read on the impressions thread here:
 (still in progress)
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/814341/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-impressions-thread-july-16-2016/


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sounds like you had a lot of fun and enjoyed yourself immensely, @DecentLevi, and that is what counts. Glad all worked out and you were able to show off your rig. 






.


----------



## DecentLevi

A few more impressions RE the Elise at the meet yesterday:
  
*Cavalli Liquid Tungsten *(prototype) *vs. Elise:*

 I felt the Tungsten gave a sound that takes you deeper into the scene of the recording, more lush, vivid, immediate, and truly... _Liquid_. That is to say this completely outclasses the Elise sonically in every way. It's also far bigger in person than it looks, and those tubes it uses are beautiful as rubies.
 This comparison was done using different pairs of the new Focal Utopia headphone (on each).
  
*Eddie Current's Zana Deux vs. Elise* (latest version):

_(actual photo)_
  
 I found the sound of the ZD to be more sweet, immediate, snappy, tightly articulated, and to have superb instrument separation, yet beautifully cohesive. Of these two, I'd honestly need a back-to-back in order to determine my favorite, but with these both, Elise takes a back seat.
 This comparison was done using different pairs of the HD 650 (on each).
  
*Hifiman Edition X vs. HD-650 on the Elise:*

  
 I found the sound to be much too dark and critically lacking detail, even compared to the HD 650 which has a moderately darker tonality and lacks detail. Soundstage was great. I felt the 'HEX' is a bad pairing with the Elise... unless perhaps brighter tubes are used. However compared to the new flagship Focal Utopia, both the HEX and HD-650 are only around 1/6th as good, IMO.
  
 Here is a one-min. video of the Tungsten with Focal Utopia, with WarrenpChi on the right:

  
 Note that these opinions are entirely subjective and can vary from person to person, and that due to the challenge of moving sources, these were indirect comparisons using different songs. Granted this may not be the fairest of comparisons since the above are about 6x, and 4x more expensive. But many seemed to express an interest in a comparison, so there is my take. And these comparisons were done 'back-to-back', time wise.
  
 Also note I just re-edited some of the above impressions of Jude above


----------



## HOWIE13

tonyl59 said:


> My Elise arrived on Friday. This is my first valve amp and so far I'm absolutely loving it! I went for for the stock tubes, as I know absolutely nothing about them. I've been listening as much as I can over the weekend, paired with my trusty Hugo, switching between HD800, TH900 and PM-1. My preference at the moment, probably surprisingly to most of you, is the Oppo PM-1 with velour pads with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cabling. I know now what you mean about the black background, improved separation and instrument placement and sheer musicality. Lovely!
> I'll get some better impressions soon but just wanted to let you know my first thoughts and to say thanks for the welcome.
> Night all...


 
 Great news,Tony.


----------



## HOWIE13

@DecentLevi
  
 Great day and well done.
  
 Yes I'm enjoying the 'Christmas Tree' set-up with no problems and have rolled some different drivers.
  
 The EL3N's are very lush, and yet still retaining all the detail. Big sound stage too.
  
 C3G's (Siemens) are more detailed and analytical with great dynamics and zest.
  
 6N7's (Brimars) are even warmer than the EL3N's, with not quite as much detail and more centrally-focused soundstage- great for solo vocals and piano, where the deep bass chords really hit you.
  
  
 I'm also trying some single power tube set-ups too- Everything I've tried so far in Elise just sounds so 'right'.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yes I'm enjoying my multi-tube setup, but when the chance arises, will also explore some top single tube setups.
  
 Also I was able to try the Bifrost with Elise, which was feeding it all day. It was the newest chip 4490 rather than multibit, and I didn't think to directly compare it to my Gustard X12 DAC, but I'll say with certainty the pairing is fantastic. Seemingly a touch more realism and perhaps a nuance more impact, with no faults at all.


----------



## DavidA

@DecentLevi, your comments about the Liquid Tungsten and ZD making the Elise take a back seat is not something I wanted to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  This comment will really make me reconsider the Elise versus the Liquid Glass that I was thinking about and also the ZD.  I know both are way higher priced but it would be an end game item (Liquid Glass) where the Elise might just be a stepping stone


----------



## DecentLevi

Well the Elise really is great enough in its' own right so that literally nearly everybody who has owned it consider it to be an end game. Literally no faults whatsoever and nothing at all seems missing, not up until you 'drink the poison' of other amps worth multiple times her cost. And consider that my Elise could have been even better, had it been burned in more or even with (theoretically) better tubes. @Liu Junyuan care to chime in RE this page?


----------



## DavidA

@DecentLevi, that's the problem, I've "drank the poison" a few times already (Liquid Gold, Glass, Crimson, MHA-100, EC Balancing Act, Headamp GS-X, Red Wine Isabellina, Master 11, Dark Star, WA22, and a few others) and have found that every time I went up one level (M/M stack to Bifrost/Asgard2/Lyr2) there was a noticeable improvement but the cost of the improvements is an exponential function (diminishing returns) so if I had just gone with a Liquid Glass to start it would have been simpler.  But then again I might not have enjoyed the journey as much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.​
  
 Sorry to clutter up this thread with my analysis paralysis thinking, hope everyone had a great weekend.


----------



## hypnos1

tonyl59 said:


> My Elise arrived on Friday. This is my first valve amp and so far I'm absolutely loving it! I went for for the stock tubes, as I know absolutely nothing about them. I've been listening as much as I can over the weekend, paired with my trusty Hugo, switching between HD800, TH900 and PM-1. My preference at the moment, probably surprisingly to most of you, is the Oppo PM-1 with velour pads with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cabling. I know now what you mean about the black background, improved separation and instrument placement and sheer musicality. Lovely!
> I'll get some better impressions soon but just wanted to let you know my first thoughts and to say thanks for the welcome.
> Night all...


 
  
 Great news t59...loving it already? - can't wait to hear what you think after 200 to 300 hours, lol!
  
 The PM-1s obviously suit your ears well...we are lucky indeed that Elise is so flexible with regard to HPs as well as tubes!...HAPPY LISTENING!...(Like many of us, methinks you could well be in for some very late - but enjoyable! nights...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> Yes I'm enjoying my multi-tube setup, but when the chance arises, will also explore some top single tube setups.
> 
> Also I was able to try the Bifrost with Elise, which was feeding it all day. It was the newest chip 4490 rather than multibit, and I didn't think to directly compare it to my Gustard X12 DAC, but I'll say with certainty the pairing is fantastic. Seemingly a touch more realism and perhaps a nuance more impact, with no faults at all.


 
 DL:  I've never heard the 4490. But by most accounts from those who have heard it and the multi-bit, the BiFrost Multibit is a substantial improvement. Just wanted to mention that.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> Yes it will still lower the impedance to some extent but not a big gain.




Hello @2359glenn - 

RE: running 2x 6AS7 powers:

I didn't mean "sonic gain" in the sense of more amplification.

I meant "sonic gain" in the sense of sounding better, especially in context of using C3g's as drivers.

Appreciate...


----------



## 2359glenn

jazzvinyl said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it will still lower the impedance to some extent but not a big gain.
> ...


 

 It will sound better with lower impedance phones with 2X 6AS7s


----------



## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> It will sound better with lower impedance phones with 2X 6AS7s




Thanks, that is what I observed, using my 300 ohm Senn's Vs my 600 ohm Beyers.

Appreciate...


----------



## HOWIE13

Is it a general rule that the output impedance is lowered if you use two power tubes per channel?
  
 For instance, would using a single 6SN7 (or dual 6J5)+ 6BL7 combo for each power channel also give a lower output impedance than one 6AS7 per channel?
  
 Elise is quoted as having an output impedance of 50ohms. How much might it be reduced by when using this sort of combination?


----------



## DavidA

howie13 said:


> Is it a general rule that the output impedance is lowered if you use two power tubes per channel?
> 
> For instance, would using a single 6SN7 (or dual 6J5)+ 6BL7 combo for each power channel also give a lower output impedance than one 6AS7 per channel?
> 
> Elise is quoted as having an output impedance of 50ohms. How much might it be reduced by when using this sort of combination?


 
 I think its also tube dependent.  I was informed in another thread that for my BH Crack that one of the reasons I liked the TS-5998 is that it has a lower output impedance than the stock 6080, which make it pair better with a wider range of headphones.


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> I think its also tube dependent.  I was informed in another thread that for my BH Crack that one of the reasons I liked the TS-5998 is that it has a lower output impedance than the stock 6080, which make it pair better with a wider range of headphones.


 
 Fascinating
 I always thought up until now that output impedance was independent of the tube and fixed by the amp's characteristics.
  
 Elise's output impedance is relatively high compared to other HA's I've used yet my 35ohm cans sound very good, so I wonder if it's to do with the fact I am using dual power tubes for each channel at present.
  
 If anybody could provide any figures, or if there was an easy way for a non-tech person like myself to easily measure output impedance with a multi-meter, I would be very interested.


----------



## DavidA

howie13 said:


> Fascinating
> I always thought up until now that output impedance was independent of the tube and fixed by the amp's characteristics.
> 
> Elise's output impedance is relatively high yet my 35ohm cans sound good, so I wonder if it's to do with the fact I am using dual power tubes for each channel at present.
> ...


 
 I used to think like you, the output impedance was fixed by the amp but it seems to be quite realistic that the tubes will have some impact on the output impedance of the amp based on what I've noticed with my BH Crack.  And I think it only applies to the power tubes, not the driver tubes.  Driver tubes affect the gain and not the output impedance from what I've been reading (if I'm mistaken please correct me).
  
 I was trying to search the HD-800 thread where I think I saw a table showing the various output resistance for power tubes but couldn't find it.


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> I used to think like you, the output impedance was fixed by the amp but it seems to be quite realistic that the tubes will have some impact on the output impedance of the amp based on what I've noticed with my BH Crack.  And I think it only applies to the power tubes, not the driver tubes.  Driver tubes affect the gain and not the output impedance from what I've been reading (if I'm mistaken please correct me).
> 
> I was trying to search the HD-800 thread where I think I saw a table showing the various output resistance for power tubes but couldn't find it.


 
 Thanks again, I'll search too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> Thanks again, I'll search too.




Found this table for HD800 and portable gear...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882

.


----------



## Lord Raven

jazzvinyl said:


> Found this table for HD800 and portable gear...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882
> 
> .


 
 I need a new DAC


----------



## JazzVinyl

lord raven said:


> I need a new DAC




Ha! You already have something extreme, don't you?

I was curious when you said some of the DSD albums you bought had better SQ in the red book CD due to the mastering. Was that pretty rare...to buy a DSD release and find the earlier CD beat it for SQ?

I have long said "mastering if the key"...to SQ.

See Ya, LR..


.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am 3000posts behind ...


----------



## hypnos1

davida said:


> I used to think like you, the output impedance was fixed by the amp but it seems to be quite realistic that the tubes will have some impact on the output impedance of the amp based on what I've noticed with my BH Crack.  And I think it only applies to the power tubes, not the driver tubes.  Driver tubes affect the gain and not the output impedance from what I've been reading (if I'm mistaken please correct me).
> 
> I was trying to search the HD-800 thread where I think I saw a table showing the various output resistance for power tubes but couldn't find it.


 
  
 "Curiouser and curioser" guys...after testing, I believe the FA guys decided to go with TWO _drivers, _giving a wider range of impedance matching...it would seem this aspect of design is much more complicated than might at first appear lol!...(along with a good few others, no doubt!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)...


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> i am 3000posts behind ...


 
  
 Shame on you L...but we'll forgive you so long as you read ALL of them...PLUS those over at the Appreciation thread LOL!


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Found this table for HD800 and portable gear...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882
> 
> .


 
 Thanks,JV
  
 I'll need some time to digest that comprehensive table.
  
 Appreciate your help.


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> "Curiouser and curioser" guys...after testing, I believe the FA guys decided to go with TWO _drivers, _giving a wider range of impedance matching...it would seem this aspect of design is much more complicated than might at first appear lol!...(along with a good few others, no doubt!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If I have a recording that's badly engineered for channel balance, which is not infrequent as I'm very sensitive to such imbalance, I sometimes use a variable resistor between the headphone output and the headphone (made by Sennheiser).
 Unless the correction is only slight this will usually result in some change in sound quality as various frequencies are affected more than others by doing this.
 Elise is unusual as I don't hear any change in sound quality as I correct the channel balance.
 It's as if Elise knows I've increased the output impedance in one channel and is compensating.
 If this is true it's very clever and yet another plus for FA.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> If I have a recording that's badly engineered for channel balance, which is not infrequent as I'm very sensitive to such imbalance, I sometimes use a variable resistor between the headphone output and the headphone (made by Sennheiser).
> Unless the correction is only slight this will usually result in some change in sound quality as various frequencies are affected more than others by doing this.
> Elise is unusual as I don't hear any change in sound quality as I correct the channel balance.
> *It's as if Elise knows I've increased the output impedance in one channel and is compensating.*
> *If this is true it's very clever and yet another plus for FA.*


 
  
 THANK YOU, THANK YOU H13!...for some time now I've been torn between wondering whether either my ears are occasionally playing silly games, or my amp working some kind of magic...(over and above its usual , that is lol!) - I too am fairly sensitive to channel imbalance, and when first encountering this but later it disappearing, the conundrum begins to bug me BIG TIME!
  
 Had wondered about Elise somehow compensating to re-establish correct balance, but not enough au fait with electronics to work out just how it could be doing it...your observation pretty well confirms that my ears are NOT misbehaving so often LOL!...and that yes, something clever is indeed going on inside Elise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(presumably something more than just auto-biasing...).
  
 Edit. Mind you, in your case you are indeed altering the output level yourself, so is rather different to my scenario...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> THANK YOU, THANK YOU H13!...for some time now I've been torn between wondering whether either my ears are occasionally playing silly games, or my amp working some kind of magic...(over and above its usual , that is lol!) - I too am fairly sensitive to channel imbalance, and when first encountering this but later it disappearing, the conundrum begins to bug me BIG TIME!
> 
> Had wondered about Elise somehow compensating to re-establish correct balance, but not enough au fait with electronics to work out just how it could be doing it...your observation pretty well confirms that my ears are NOT misbehaving so often LOL!...and that yes, something clever is indeed going on inside Elise...
> 
> ...


 
 She's very clever is our Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> i am 3000posts behind ...




  
 LOL... we'll forgive you if you buy Elise. This is interesting music.


----------



## 2359glenn

EL3N driving a EL3N Amp
  
 I am only posting these pictures here because you guys inspired me with these tubes.
 Actually I never herd of them before the only European tube I used was the C3g.
 After reading your posts I bought a pair and one of those crazy dual EL3N to 6SN7
 adapters. They sounded great and shouldn't have the operating points are all wrong
 in a 6SN7 socket.
 So I built this amp with the right operating points and the best output transformers.
 This thing sounds fantastic and it only has 6 hrs on it. The rectifier tube in the
 middle is a AZ4 keeping it all European side contact tubes.
 Output in triode mode 1 watt into 32 ohms in pentode 4 watts better sound in triode.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> EL3N driving a EL3N Amp
> 
> I am only posting these pictures here because you guys inspired me with these tubes.
> Actually I never herd of them before the only European tube I used was the C3g.
> ...


 
  
 Wow that looks gorgeous Glenn. I have always love EL3N sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One question but it's obviously pointless. Is 4 EL3N sufficient to drive T1 600ohms or HD800 300ohms? I gather it has to be otherwise you won't say it sound fantastic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Perhaps it's time I trade this .... for your special EL3N tube amp.


----------



## DecentLevi

That's super phenomenal! I'd highly recommend finding a way for some of us to try your new EL3N amp - this is the way to get the word out. Maybe you can set up a 'loaner program' where select members can try it and send it to the next person after finished, via mail... perhaps the users would cover the shipping themselves. And you can also try to bring it to Head-Fi meets or the CES.
  
 But why does the date on the photo stamp say "2011"? And do you have a name for this amp? And what is the 5th tube, is that an FDD20?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> That's super phenomenal! I'd highly recommend finding a way for some of us to try your new EL3N amp - this is the way to get the word out. Maybe you can set up a 'loaner program' where select members can try it and send it to the next person after finished, via mail... perhaps the users would cover the shipping themselves. And you can also try to bring it to Head-Fi meets or the CES.
> 
> But why does the date on the photo stamp say "2011"? And do you have a name for this amp? And what is the 5th tube, is that an FDD20?


 

 He doesn't reset his camera date.. hence it's still 2011.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That middle 5th tube as he said is the rectifier AZ4.
  
 This is his own tube amp. I don't know if he wants to sell it haha. 
  
 I'm going to put 6xEL3N back into Elise now just to hear that magic again. Operating points maybe wrong but it sounded great.


----------



## 2359glenn

decentlevi said:


> That's super phenomenal! I'd highly recommend finding a way for some of us to try your new EL3N amp - this is the way to get the word out. Maybe you can set up a 'loaner program' where select members can try it and send it to the next person after finished, via mail... perhaps the users would cover the shipping themselves. And you can also try to bring it to Head-Fi meets or the CES.
> 
> But why does the date on the photo stamp say "2011"? And do you have a name for this amp? And what is the 5th tube, is that an FDD20?


 
 Every time I take out the battery's I have ti reset the date so I just leave it at 2011.
 No name yet.
 The 5th tube is a AZ4 rectifier keeping with the side contact tubes


----------



## UntilThen

Without adapters that's how it should be. Those red EL3N looks striking in your tube amp Glenn.
  
 EL3N tubes are still affordable. Do keep us informed on how it progressed with further burn in.


----------



## pctazhp

@2359glenn  Beautiful looking amp. Please do keep us up to date on it. Just want to mention that I believe it was @hypnos1 who originally discovered the EL3N for use in the Elise.


----------



## mordy

Hi 2359Glenn,
  
 Congrats on your new amp - looks great. I seem to remember that you said that the transformers are very expensive. If you sold it commercially, at what price point would it be?
  
 Can it be used as a preamp?


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah if the result is good, no reason not to start production on it. Too bad you don't have the Elise to compare it with, so you can gauge which amp sounds better and why. At least you can compare it to some other comparable Glenn amps, and let us know how the details, if you would?
  
 I'm not sure if that specific amp config. could be produced very largely though, because EL3N is a near extinct tube.
  
 As far as EL3N, I'm still underwhelmed on their performance in my Elise, notably due to their generally darker tone and soft dynamics. That's something however that could theoretically change with extended burn-in, or could be different on your amp above.


----------



## UntilThen

EL3N is not near extinct thanks to some bad publicity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some sellers still have very healthy supply.
  
 6xEL3N on Elise sounds amazing with my T1. Dark tones and soft dynamics are not what I hear. On the contrary they sound full of details and clarity. Use the dual EL3N to 6SN7 adapters, not the dual 6BL7 to 6SN7 with additional single EL3N adapter on top of it. 
  
 What Glenn has made is however very desirable. Correct operating points and no adapters required.


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> That's super phenomenal! I'd highly recommend finding a way for some of us to try your new EL3N amp - this is the way to get the word out. Maybe you can set up a 'loaner program' where select members can try it and send it to the next person after finished, via mail... perhaps the users would cover the shipping themselves. And you can also try to bring it to Head-Fi meets or the CES.
> 
> But why does the date on the photo stamp say "2011"? And do you have a name for this amp? And what is the 5th tube, is that an FDD20?


 
 WOW. Give the poor guy a break. He just finished building the amp and is still burning it in. And as far as I know, hasn't even decided whether to produce it commercially.
  
 He has been in business for years, has a one year waiting period for his existing amp and has many loyal followers on a very active thread. I really don't think he needs our help or advice on how to market his products.


----------



## DecentLevi

I didn't see anything wrong with my post, and it seems he didn't either. Just common curiosity and throwing out a few ideas on how some of us may be able to try his nice looking amp. I for one don't see any point to your negativity


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> I didn't see anything wrong with my post, and it seems he didn't either. Just common curiosity and throwing out a few ideas on how some of us may be able to try his nice looking amp. I for one don't see any point to your negativity


 
 DL:  I assumed you didn't see anything wrong with your post, or you wouldn't have posted it. If you are going to express opinions or offer advice, you have to know someone cantankerous like me may disagree with you, and they have just as much right to post what they think. Believe me, I've been blasted hard for many of my opinions.
  
 Glen may very well not have a problem with your post. I don't know and I don't think you do either. But I wasn't speaking for him. Just expressing my own opinion.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> EL3N driving a EL3N Amp
> 
> I am only posting these pictures here because you guys inspired me with these tubes.
> Actually I never herd of them before the only European tube I used was the C3g.
> ...


 
  
 Hi there Glenn.
  
 So you've finally got your own amp...looks - and obviously SOUNDS - great!...(methinks you must be working all hours of the day and night, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 And thanks for showing us your creation - when are you going to be setting up shop here in the UK?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I always suspected you needn't have feared how the EL3Ns would perform.... especially given how they sound in my - as you said - non specifically configured Elise...(but they pair incredibly well with my GEC CV2523s). I can only imagine how they sound in your amp with those Lundhals! And "fantastic" after just 6 hours?...yikes, are you in for the surprise of your life with the extended burn-in that I - along with a good few others - have found to bring quite dramatic improvements...often well beyond the 200 hrs mark!
  
 Would be interested to know your music source and DAC used...as I've mentioned before (more than once!), the EL3N just keeps scaling its performance with any and all upgrades in the rest of the system - my new _tube_ DAC (as with @aqsw) brought out even more magic from them than my $1200 (back then!) Audiolab 8200CD.
  
 Look forward to your findings as they - and of course the amp itself - get more hours on them...CHEERS!
  
 ps. If you ever get tired of your amp, I reckon you ought to let me have it for a song LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...ah well, I can but dream...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

I'm dreaming too because for the last 2 hours, 6xEL3N sounds so good on Elise. I'm using T1 and timbre is just perfect for me. These are gorgeous tubes indeed. At 25 euros each NOS, they are a steal.
  
 On Glenn's amp, he can switch between triode and pentode. I want one.


----------



## 2359glenn

decentlevi said:


> That's super phenomenal! I'd highly recommend finding a way for some of us to try your new EL3N amp - this is the way to get the word out. Maybe you can set up a 'loaner program' where select members can try it and send it to the next person after finished, via mail... perhaps the users would cover the shipping themselves. And you can also try to bring it to Head-Fi meets or the CES.
> 
> But why does the date on the photo stamp say "2011"? And do you have a name for this amp? And what is the 5th tube, is that an FDD20?


 

 I would think of doing this but shipping would be expensive it is quite heavy with all those transformers.
 And if sent to Europe they would want import duties bad enough the $100+ to send it there.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I would think of doing this but shipping would be expensive it is quite heavy with all those transformers.
> *And if sent to Europe they would want import duties bad enough the $100+ to send it there.*


 
  
 Glenn....that's why you've just GOT to split your time between the US and UK...after all, we ARE cousins, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(I want to see how your EL3N creation sounds next to mine!)...


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I would think of doing this but shipping would be expensive it is quite heavy with all those transformers.
> ...


 

 So H1 I can set up a amp building shop in your basement?


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> So H1 I can set up a amp building shop in your basement?


 
  
 If I had a basement I'd send you the 'plane fare, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I take it a 6ft shed won't cut it?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> So H1 I can set up a amp building shop in your basement?


 

 Glenn you have to plan on ramping up the EL3N amp production. Your assertion that it sounds as good as your 300B creation will generate a lot of interest. I like how it look. Symmetrical.


----------



## DecentLevi

So Glenn, which area are you in? Maybe someone nearby can take their Elise over for comparison to your EL3N amp. Or do you ever display your amps at trade shows? At least a comparison to other comparable amps would be interesting. 
  
 And you say it can switch between triode and pentode - so does this mean it can also be compatible with other tubes such as 5998, 6A6, etc.?
  
 However I hate to imagine how this new amp fever would come off to Elise lurkers, and wonder if a new thread would come into use.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> As far as EL3N, I'm still underwhelmed on their performance in my Elise, notably due to their generally darker tone and soft dynamics. That's something however that could theoretically change with extended burn-in, or could be different on your amp above.




This matches what I hear in Elise too. Except I would call them _very_ dark.

I'm sure Glenn's amp is much better, running them at optimal settings. 

The disadvantage of a dedicated EL3N amp is the lack of ability to run all the other wonderful tubes that Elise runs, so very stunningly.

Have to give some advantage to take some advantage.

Such is life.



.


----------



## 2359glenn

decentlevi said:


> So Glenn, which area are you in? Maybe someone nearby can take their Elise over for comparison to your EL3N amp. Or do you ever display your amps at trade shows? At least a comparison to other comparable amps would be interesting.
> 
> And you say it can switch between triode and pentode - so does this mean it can also be compatible with other tubes such as 5998, 6A6, etc.?
> 
> However I hate to imagine how this new amp fever would come off to Elise lurkers, and wonder if a new thread would come into use.


 

 I live in NC
 It cannot use 5998 or 6A6 my OTL amp can use these tubes. This amp can only use side contact tubes EL3 or EL3N


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> DL:  I've never heard the 4490. But by most accounts from those who have heard it and the multi-bit, the BiFrost Multibit is a substantial improvement. Just wanted to mention that.




@pctazhp - did you have another DAC before you bought the BiFrost Multibit?

Just wondered how much of a leap forward you thought the BF Multi was...

.


----------



## DecentLevi

I was using the Bifrost 4490 with the Elise at the SF meet last weekend, and it was great enough to nearly bring several to tears. I've prob. tried the Multifrost (Bifrost Multibit) but it was such an indirect comparison that I'd have to do a side-by-side to be sure of the differences. To me though, all who've compared them say there is a subtle but noticeable improvement from the 4490 to the Multifrost for organic sounds and soundstage, and at only a few hundred more, IMO the Multifrost is worth it. Here's a copy of a message a while ago that sums it up pretty well:
  
_So I listened to the Multibit first and it sounded amazing. So today I have been listening to the 4490, and I have to tell you, the 4490 is no joke. I know it is early in my testing and I have only done listening A/B Tests (no measurements yet) however I honestly cannot hear hardly a difference at all between the 4490 and the multibit. The multibit seems to be a tad warmer than the 4490, however both have excellent resolution, soundstage, and instrument separation.

 But there is no doubt both the 4490 and Multibit are a pretty nice upgrade from the Uber, and both upgrades sounded better immediately right out of the box.

 I'll have a more in-depth review after perhaps a week or so, I want to make sure that both units have some usage under their belts. One thing I can say honestly, even at this early stage, the 4490 is an excellent value for the upgrade -even new out of the box. But I would recommend you wait for my full review before you make any decisions. The way I see it, if there isn't too much of a difference between the Multibit and 4490 in terms of sound, the 4490 may well be the way to go, as it is a great value_


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> @pctazhp - did you have another DAC before you bought the BiFrost Multibit?
> 
> Just wondered how much of a leap forward you thought the BF Multi was...
> 
> .


 
 The only other DAC I've had during my headphone phase was the Aune T1 Mk 2. The Bimby was a significant upgrade. Back in my audiophile days I had the Theta Pro 5 DAC, which was probably what led me to the Bimby. However that was so long ago I couldn't even attempt a comparison to the Bimby, and back then most of my listening was vinyl which I consistently preferred to CDs.
  
 So I can't offer much when it comes to DACs. All I can say is I'm really happy with my Bimby and feel no urge to upgrade.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I had heard that about the 4490 - that if you already had the BiFrost Uber and added 4490 for $70.00 that it was a worthwhile upgrade. Bunch of glowing reviews and pleased purchasers, they as well, noted that the Multibit had it by a little, but they were all very pleased at having invested in the 4490. I have heard none of the offerings, so I cannot say.

You mentioned upsampling the other day. I do have an upsampling Musical Fidelity V-DAC (the original before the II) and I can definitely tell a difference between it and a non upsampling DAC, It's not "night and day" but I think you can immediately appreciate that upsampling does contribute positively. (The V-DAC is supposed to upsample the 16/44.1 redbook standard to 24/192). And as always, the better the recording technique, the more you appreciate the difference.

I opened my wallet today and placed an order for the just released Modi Multibit, that is supposed to have the same medical/military grade DAC that the BiFrost Multibit has. It will be my first DAC purchase since about 2009. Hoping for good things from (what the community calls) the "*baby turd*".


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> The only other DAC I've had during my headphone phase was the Aune T1 Mk 2. The Bimby was a significant upgrade. Back in my audiophile days I had the Theta Pro 5 DAC, which was probably what led me to the Bimby. However that was so long ago I couldn't even attempt a comparison to the Bimby, and back then most of my listening was vinyl which I consistently preferred to CDs.
> 
> So I can't offer much when it comes to DACs. All I can say is I'm really happy with my Bimby and feel no urge to upgrade.




Ah yes, the joy of Vinyl and its natural presentation and fantastic sound stage. 

Appreciate your comments, pct...


----------



## aqsw

I really hope you don't take this the wrong way JV, but ignorance is bliss. A good quality dac (not bimby!) does not cost that much anymore compared to years ago. When you hear the really good ones you get it right away. It's like listening to vinyl without the pops and scratches. JMO and H1s I think too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I really hope you don't take this the wrong way JV, but ignorance is bliss. A good quality dac (not bimby!) does not cost that much anymore compared to years ago. When you hear the really good ones you get it right away. It's like listening to vinyl without the pops and scratches. JMO and H1s I think too.





LOL sounds like your telling me to save my dough and stay ignorant?

Yes, I have the Musical Fidelity V-Dac I (uses a Burr-Brown DAC) which I think sounds fine. I have not bought a newer DAC since 2009, simply because I was satisfied with the V-Dac upsampling of my lossless files ripped from my own CD's.

When you say good quality DAC and NOT a Bimby - that means you think the BiFrost Multibit sounds like Schiit?

I have a Hi-Res DAP and I have downloaded various Hi-Res samples. They sound good but I am not bowled over and am certainly not abandoning my many hundreds of redbook audio CD's bought over many years.

I am also pretty sure that I have a much lower toy budget than you or H1...so I will try the Modi Multibit and see if I am impressed (or not)....it has a 15 day money back guarantee.

I know your DAC is a mighty one...what kind of $$$ did you give for it, aqsw?


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> LOL sounds like your telling me to save my dough and stay ignorant?
> 
> Yes, I have the Musical Fidelity V-Dac I (uses a Burr-Brown DAC) which I think sounds fine. I have not bought a newer DAC since 2009, simply because I was satisfied with the V-Dac upsampling of my lossless files ripped from my own CD's.
> 
> ...




It actually cost about the same as the big schiit!, but it was Made in Canada, so no duties Those big tubes sound so wonderful though.
.I just recently bought a fiio x7 hi res player.
Im seriously considering sending it back as it sounds terrible compared to my other systems. I really don't listen very much out of my home or office.

My Hegel Dac and Cavalli LC are a great pairiing in my office, but I just don't even want to listen to them anymore. I just want to get home and light up those tubes on my DAC and Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> It actually cost less than the big schiit!, but it was Made in Canada, so no duties.I just recently bought afiio x7 hi res player.
> Im seriously considering sending it back as it sounds terrible compared to my other systems. I really don't listen very much out of my home or office.




Sounds like a deal on your custom DAC...

The Modi Multi - $249.00 a baby turd...as they say 

My hi-res player is Sony and it sounds excellent, no complaints on SQ at all. A pair of high quality IEM's right in the 'ole headphone jack and your in for quite an expirence. 

You didn't actually answer the question regarding the BiFrost MultiBit, you certainly insinuate that it does not "do it" for you. 

It is rated #1 here at head-fi, so many seem to like it. It is all 100% subjective....


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Sounds like a deal on your custom DAC...
> 
> The Modi Multi - $249.00 a baby turd...as they say
> 
> ...




I didn't answer your question because Schiit has a very good following here. I believe they make a good product, but for the same money (on the high end schiit) you can get a much better product. The lower end stuff is priced there for a reason, and I'm sure it will satisfy 75% of headfiers. Im not that knowledgeable on amps but I have tried out quite a few high end dacs and feel I can tell diffrences between them . Pianos and percussion are the most telling signs in my opinion. The Schiits just don't nail them down like my Hegel or STL.
I feel a dac should sound like its vinyl. I never get that feeling with the Schiit, I have not heard the newest ones though.The yggy didn't do it or me though.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> I didn't answer your question because Schiit has a very good following here. I believe they make a good product, but for the same money (on the high end schiit) you can get a much better product. The lower end stuff is priced there for a reason, and I'm sure it will satisfy 75% of headfiers. Im not that knowledgeable on amps but I have tried out quite a few high end dacs and feel I can tell diffrences between them . Pianos and percussion are the most telling signs in my opinion. The Schiits just don't nail them down like my Hegel or STL.
> I feel a dac should sound like its vinyl. I never get that feeling with the Schiit, I have not heard the newest ones though.The yggy didn't do it or me though.




Right-o, I don't want to start a war regarding preferred products either.

I resisted anything by the turd guys for a long time simply because I hated the idea of naming your company after fecal matter. That is not an attribute I admire, for sure. 

Those guys DO make some very expensive DAC's but the Bimby is less than 1/2 your STL so I hope it does not sound as good. Have you compared a similar priced DAC of thiers to yours?

Also,
Let's pretend the Modi multi sounds pretty close to the BiFront Multi...the Bimby costing 600 and the Mimby costing 250....seems to me a lot of Bimby buyers would feel slighted. A slippery slope they have embarked upon...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ah, you were saying yggy, got it.

I love the thought that were supposed to sound as good as vinyl. Owning 2500 vinyls and playing them regularly, is another reason I never went dac crazy....I am already "there".

Ironic, along comes digi and the pinnacle is to sound analog again 

Life is funny....bees make honey


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Also,
> Let's pretend the Modi multi sounds pretty close to the BiFront Multi...the Bimby costing 600 and the Mimby costing 250....seems to me a lot of Bimby buyers would feel slighted. A slippery slope they have embarked upon...


 
 I don't feel slighted at all. If Schiit has come close to the Bimby for $250 then more power to them, and great for those who buy the Mimby. Every time we buy an audio component we have to know that technology will not stop beyond that point and that something may very well come along that is as good or almost as good for a lower price. My Bimby has already provided me countless hours of enjoyment and will continue to do so. The introduction of the Mimby isn't suddenly going to detract from the enjoyment I get from my Bimby.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> I don't feel slighted at all. If Schiit has come close to the Bimby for $250 then more power to them, and great for those who buy the Mimby. Every time we buy an audio component we have to know that technology will not stop beyond that point and that something may very well come along that is as good or almost as good for a lower price. My Bimby has already provided me countless hours of enjoyment and will continue to do so. The introduction of the Mimby isn't suddenly going to detract from the enjoyment I get from my Bimby.




Right-o and the turd boys say they have just gotten things started...more shakeups are coming this very year...


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Right-o and the turd boys say they have just gotten things started...more shakeups are coming this very year...


 
  
 I would like to try that new Schiit DAC but Schiit UK doesn't appear to have any in stock at present.
  
 Meantime I dug out my old Muse Mini TDA 1543x4, which cost $50, and it sounds very good with Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> It actually cost about the same as the big schiit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi aqsw.
  
 Had the same experience with an ibasso DX90...sent it back. Very good as a portable, but even though sporting dual ESS Sabre 9018 K2M DACs, didn't come anywhere near the _full_ 8-core 9018 in my Audiolab 8200CD...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
  


aqsw said:


> I didn't answer your question because Schiit has a very good following here. I believe they make a good product, but for the same money (on the high end schiit) you can get a much better product. The lower end stuff is priced there for a reason, and I'm sure it will satisfy 75% of headfiers. Im not that knowledgeable on amps but I have tried out quite a few high end dacs and feel I can tell diffrences between them . Pianos and percussion are the most telling signs in my opinion. The Schiits just don't nail them down like my Hegel or STL.
> *I feel a dac should sound like its vinyl*. I never get that feeling with the Schiit, I have not heard the newest ones though.The yggy didn't do it or me though.


 
  
 This must almost surely be down to the DAC's tubes doing the work of the usual SS op-amp...I am still mightily impressed with my own (£600) tube DAC...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 At this point, I have to admit I've had a bit of a shock - couldn't wait 'til Winter to compare my previous favourite drivers with the EL3Ns, and have just popped in the ECC31s...and WOW!!  This new DAC is working wonders on them already...seems to be filling in gaps that partnering with an FDD20 accomplished previously, but much more seamlessly. Not sure whether to smile or frown, given my love for the EL3N!..(this is not in any way diminishing the EL3N's performance in my particular system, I must add).
  
 However, it's a very close battle now - but have got to listen to a whole load more different music tracks to get any real kind of answer. The only thing I can say at present is that the 31s are still not _quite_ so forward as the EL3Ns - the FDD20 brought things a bit closer, but some were able to notice the effect of this difference in the 20/31 combo. But at the moment, this revisit has caught me somewhat by surprise...and it's nice only having to set the volume knob to about 8.30 o'clock, given their higher gain!
  
 So it looks like I might just be keeping my ECC31s after all, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(well, being the cheaper common-cathode precursor to the mighty ECC32/CV181, I suppose there must be some reason behind the latters' esteemed status - not to mention high price!!)...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> This must almost surely be down to the DAC's tubes doing the work of the usual SS op-amp...I am still mightily impressed with my own (£600) tube DAC...




Right-o,

Tubes play no role in Digital To Analog Conversion and they are indeed amplifying the signal after the DAC has done it's thing.
Since all tubes 'color' the sound a bit...

Your sending a color signal to Elise, who further 'paints upon' the signal, like the master, Rembrandt 

Would love to hear a quality "Tube" DAC 

Oh, the many....Audio Joys!


----------



## Jozurr

Does anyone have experience with ECC31 to 6SN7 Adapters? Which ones are recommended ones/best quality?


----------



## UntilThen

This seems to be the best. The brass ones from xulingmrs. I use them with my ECC31 on Elise.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC32-ECC33-tube-converter-adapter-/201134198992?hash=item2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s
  
 Even these ones works for me but I've since given them to @connieflyer .
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-ECC31-Replace-ECC33-6SN7-B65-Tube-Amplifier-Adapter-Suzier-E2-/281951474496?hash=item41a59e1340:g:e94AAOSwu4BV5ApU
  
 This is how it looks. Sounds really good with both 7236 and 5998.


----------



## HOWIE13

I've always found Mrs X's adapters to be reliable.


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> I've always found Mrs X's adapters to be reliable.




+1


----------



## koven

hi all, im in the market for OTL amp under $1k, i am considering the Elise/Arioso vs WA2/WA6SE.. can anyone possibly comment on this to help my decision? i am leaning towards WA just because it is made in USA and probably easier to deal w/ warranty/issues.. my dac is the modi multibit and my cans are k712/hd600/T1... next up probably elear or hd800s
 thank you


----------



## UntilThen

koven said:


> hi all, im in the market for OTL amp under $1k, i am considering the Elise/Arioso vs WA2/WA6SE.. can anyone possibly comment on this to help my decision? i am leaning towards WA just because it is made in USA and probably easier to deal w/ warranty/issues.. my dac is the modi multibit and my cans are k712/hd600/T1... next up probably elear or hd800s
> thank you


 

 Hi Koven, welcome to Elise thread. I see you're from Silicon Valley. It's time they get into Head-Fi. 
  
 Alright for an unbiased opinion ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I took my Elise to a Sydney Can Jam meet and there were the Wa2 and Wa6SE there. I spend some time listening to them. Very good tubes in the Wa2 - GEC 6AS7G. Wa6SE has standard stock tubes. I had Raytheon 7N7 and Tung Sol 5998 on Elise. My listening session were with T1 (various models including T1 g1 and the black anniversary model) and HD800. 
  
 I wouldn't say the Wa2 sounded bad, just kind of slow and laid back compared to Elise, the latter (Elise) being fluid and agile with a liquid warm that is totally engaging. Wa6SE with stock standard tubes just sound too bright for me. I left the meet totally happy with my Elise, knowing that it has the sound that I much prefer over the other 2 Woos. Now if you consider Elise is only $700 (only ) you have got a bargain there. Nine months down the track, my Elise is still working flawlessly. Tube rolling options are plenty.
  
 Arioso isn't a headphone tube amp. It's a stereo tube amp for driving speakers. I once ask Lukasz (Feliks Audio main spokesman) whether the Arioso would be better than Elise for headphones listening. I was interested in the 2A3 tubes it uses. His reply was that Elise is the best for headphone listening.


----------



## DecentLevi

A fellow Head-Fi friend came over today and one thing I got to do was compare my HD 650 to his HD 600. It's the darndest thing - although I've previously compared these twice before, this time the HD 600 on the Elise was absolutely surreal and breathtaking. It was absolute tranquil, pure audiophile bilss: impact in droves, better than my HD 650 by a hefty margin, sparkling details and soundstage that seemed perhaps 30% larger. And all this out of the same exact design, minus a few minor internal differences. 
  
 Thoughts raced across my mind while hearing this pairing such as how similar it sounded to the HD-650 with Zana Deux. And speaking of Zana Deux, the member who visited is a ZD owner; he converted his original unit to the ZD super version which is the same as the newest one. AND he was still quite interested in the Elise nevertheless! He said it really seems like the Elise is perfectly tuned for the HD 600's. It seemed like there was something special about his pair though such as enormous burn-in or something. This was @CEE TEE in case you wanna chime in.
  
 He told me I can mod my 650 to sound like the 600, so I'll be interested to finally try the mod on my HD 650... when I get the time anyway because Monday I start working a new job with a lot of overtime. UT can you sent me the link to that mod again?And is it reversible?
  
 Hmmm... Silicon Valley should get into Head-Fi? Wow I had a major chuckle after hearing that one. OK folks a little info. on my current hometown area:
 Silicon Valley is another nickname for the "south bay area" 50 miles south of San Francisco and is comprised of about a dozen small towns including Mountain View, Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Saratoga, Milpitas and the huge town San Jose, which is the largest city and officially "the heart of Silicon valley". I've been living in San Jose for about 5 of the last 12 years
_(you'll have to ask the aliens who abducted me what happened to those other 7 years because my memory's a little hazy *LOL! *_



_)_
 Anyway Silicon Valley is a booming Head-Fi scene as well, with several local meet-ups in recent years, at least 25% of the SF meet's attendes being from here, several staff members of Massdrop and Woo Audio, and at least one hi-end audiophile speaker store too.


----------



## UntilThen

@DecentLevi that's an interesting observation regarding HD600 because when @Lord Raven visited me in Sydney, he brought his HD600 along and I had a good listen on my Elise. It sounded good. Very good in fact. I was astonish how clear and sparkling it sounded with EL3N and 5998. Definitely clearer than my stock HD650 at that time. It is still not as revealing as the T1 but the HD600 at the price it is going for now is an absolute bargain. LR can give you his thoughts now that he has T1 and HD600 in his possession. T1 is definitely more revealing and an unbeatable soundstage... except for the HD800.
  
 Alright now for the interesting part. As good as the HD600 sounded on Elise, I think you will be quite amazed how much better a modded HD650 sounds. It really opens it up. You'll hear more of the top end and the midrange is like a clear window to the world. This mod also tightens up the bass. So much so for casual listening, I am using my modded HD650 most of the time. I chuckle when I call it the HD850. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It does sound so much better to my ears compared to the stock HD650. Knowing your taste, I know you will like it DL.
  
 Regarding the mod. Here's the link. post #18
  
 Basically I did 3 things.
  
 1. I cut a coin hole in the inner thin pad.
  
 2. I remove the foam pad behind the driver and broke off the spider.
  
 3. I apply Dynamat (sound deadening material that you can buy a small piece from any car audio installation shop) to specific locations as shown on the photo in the link.
  
 All of these mods are irreversible but I doubt you want to reverse it after you hear the modded HD650. You can perhaps leave out No. 1. Cut the coin hole only if you want more clarity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Regarding Silicon Valley, well I was in IT all my working life and that is the hub of IT ideas and growth all along.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thought it'd be a disgrace to talk about the San Jose / silicon valley area without photos. So here are some photos I've taken here:
  



  

 (the drought has since dried up this water though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  

 Here was me two weeks ago when my Mom visited Silicon Valley for her first time


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Thought it'd be a disgrace to talk about the San Jose / silicon valley area without photos. So here are some photos I've taken here:
> 
> Here was me two weeks ago when my Mom visited Silicon Valley for her first time


 
  
 Thanks for the photos. It's good to put a face to a name and your mum look incredibly young. You can tell her it's my compliment.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> He told me I can mod my 650 to sound like the 600, so I'll be interested to finally try the mod on my HD 650... when I get the time anyway because Monday I start working a new job with a lot of overtime.




Congrats on the employment situation, @DecentLevi! WooHoo!!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> @DecentLevi
> that's an interesting observation regarding HD600 because when @Lord Raven
> visited me in Sydney, he brought his HD600 along and I had a good listen on my Elise. It sounded good. Very good in fact. I was astonish how clear and sparkling it sounded with EL3N and 5998. Definitely clearer than my stock HD650 at that time. It is still not as revealing as the T1 but the HD600 at the price it is going for now is an absolute bargain. LR can give you his thoughts now that he has T1 and HD600 in his possession. T1 is definitely more revealing and an unbeatable soundstage... except for the HD800.
> 
> ...




UT,

Very nice write up . You missed one step. The little black piece of plastic that holds the rear foam and that looks like a spider needs to be ripped off because it adds resonance that can become more fatiguing over time. This is absolutely crucial IMO. Sounds much better with it out.

Also, the Dynamat mod is really really important. This may be where modders should begin since it is the easiest mod to reverse.


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> UT,
> 
> Very nice write up
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks LJ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I did mention about breaking the spider in point No. 2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but thanks for elaborating on it. Now @DecentLevi will know exactly what to do. That was the last thing I did after @audiojun told me about it.
  
 This is the finished product. No more spider.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> Thanks LJ.
> 
> I did mention about breaking the spider in point No. 2. :etysmile:  but thanks for elaborating on it. Now @DecentLevi
> will know exactly what to do. That was the last thing I did after @audiojun
> ...




Oh, I am a poor reader today  I see you wrote it now. My apologies!


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> Oh, I am a poor reader today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No apologies needed. I only made a passing mention of breaking the spider but you expanded on it which is good.


----------



## DecentLevi

Well in case anyone's interested, here is my best mod result on the HD-650. Sounds stellar with the Elise!


----------



## UntilThen

DL glad you tried the mod. IMO it makes the HD650 sounds better. Not as dark and warm and bass is tighter. Where yours is different is you have 3 more pieces of Dynamat, the amount is pretty much experimental and depends on individual preference. I might try and add a bit more and see if it helps but atm I'm quite ok with mine.
  
 Removing the back foam and spider does brighten up the sound.


----------



## UntilThen

Added 3 more small pieces of Dynamat as what you have done. Bass is now taut and tight, approaching T1. Like it, much better. Better definition too. HD850 is a tongue in cheek comment. This will never be more revealing than hd800 or T1 nor have their wide soundstage but nevertheless it is now very enjoyable. Love it.


----------



## richard89

Hey all - I'm checking back in. I received my setup with the 6XEL3N and am enjoying it. I'm curious as to how much better it can get, particularly with the Tung Sol 5998, as I've seen many members list it as favorite. Can you guys tell me if any of the 5998 combos trumps the 6XEL3N's? I saw that you mentioned 5998 + EL3N were great @UntilThen, how does the 5998 + C3G or ECC31 measure among them? Really thanks in advance. Richard


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> Hey all - I'm checking back in. I received my setup with the 6XEL3N and am enjoying it. I'm curious as to how much better it can get, particularly with the Tung Sol 5998, as I've seen many members list it as favorite. Can you guys tell me if any of the 5998 combos trumps the 6XEL3N's? I saw that you mentioned 5998 + EL3N were great @UntilThen, how does the 5998 + C3G or ECC31 measure among them? Really thanks in advance. Richard


 
 Hi Richard, which castle did you retreat to, to enjoy your Elise with 6 x EL3N ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Well I chuckle when someone tells me they like the 6 pack because I do like that too. How much better does it get? Well you're at the summit already except you're facing East. There's still other aspects, such as West, North and South.
  
 Back in April 2016, I made this list of tube combinations that I thought sounded good with Elise. The 4 at the top were my favourite then but the others have caught up since. It's hard to say which trumps which. They all sounded good. Just different flavours. FWIW, I call the EL3N and 5998 the benchmark and gave it a glowing review.
  
 This is the list. http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/9285#post_12491883
  
 This is the EL3N and 5998 review. http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/6000#post_12235306
  
 5998 is a good sounding power tube but rather pricey. Works very well with many drivers even 6SN7.


----------



## aqsw

richard89 said:


> Hey all - I'm checking back in. I received my setup with the 6XEL3N and am enjoying it. I'm curious as to how much better it can get, particularly with the Tung Sol 5998, as I've seen many members list it as favorite. Can you guys tell me if any of the 5998 combos trumps the 6XEL3N's? I saw that you mentioned 5998 + EL3N were great @UntilThen, how does the 5998 + C3G or ECC31 measure among them? Really thanks in advance. Richard




Wow, I could not get rid of my TS5998s fast enough. They were the worst powers I used. Had major distortion. The guy I sold them to loves them! It must be the amps.


----------



## pctazhp

richard89 said:


> Hey all - I'm checking back in. I received my setup with the 6XEL3N and am enjoying it. I'm curious as to how much better it can get, particularly with the Tung Sol 5998, as I've seen many members list it as favorite. Can you guys tell me if any of the 5998 combos trumps the 6XEL3N's? I saw that you mentioned 5998 + EL3N were great @UntilThen, how does the 5998 + C3G or ECC31 measure among them? Really thanks in advance. Richard


 
 Hi Richard. I've got a pair of TS5998s. To me they are ok, but not worth the money. Right now I'm running a pair of Chatham 6AS7Gs for power and Sylvania 6SN7-WTBs for drivers with my HD800S and couldn't be happier. With my particular headphones I prefer it by a considerable margin over my 6XEL3Ns. I am not a fan of C3Gs.


----------



## JazzVinyl

aqsw said:


> Wow, I could not get rid of my TS5998s fast enough. They were the worst powers I used. Had major distortion. The guy I sold them to loves them! It must be the amps.




Definitely is a mystery @aqsw, as my Tung Sol 5998's are one of my favorites in this amp. You also had trouble with the Mazda 6N7G's while most others did not.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Also find it interesting that some say the Power positions on Elise run with ZERO gain, yet the 5998's with an mu of 5 are easily heard as "louder" than 6080's or other 6AS7's who have an mu of 2.

If the Powers run at zero gain....

Lucy got some 'splainin' to do....




.


----------



## pctazhp

@aqsw If you have the time could you tell us a little about your Space Tech Labs DA-24/192 Super DAC with DSD, Thanks )))


----------



## aqsw

jazzvinyl said:


> Definitely is a mystery @aqsw, as my Tung Sol 5998's are one of my favorites in this amp. You also had trouble with the Mazda 6N7G's while most others did not.




Yes, my Mazdas were really bad also. Lost money on my Mazdas and 5998s, but they were terrible tubes for my amp.


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> @aqsw
> If you have the time could you tell us a little about your Space Tech Labs DA-24/192 Super DAC with DSD, Thanks )))



.
Just off hand it's a 4x upsampling dac up to 24/192. I ordered with 2 coax and 1 usb input( Dsd).
Mine uses a 6x5gt rectifier tube and 2x6550 powers. It is very tube friendly, just like the Elise. Handles K120S EASILY.
Many different combos can be tried. Tube section isPure Class A, all point to point hand wired. It should not be moved while hot.
It has single ended and balanced outputs.
I asked Albert about the chips and he said he used 8 crystal chips in the 24/192. Whatever that means.
Waiting on the balanced Elise II.
Big, old school. I ordered it all black, no lettering to match the Elise.
Did I tell you how good it sounds!!

Mine is actually the last two pictures.

http://www.thebestamp.com/DA_Converters_USB-DACs/DA-24_192-Super.php


----------



## HOWIE13

This is all very relevant to me just now as I'm in the process of trying to evaluate all the Power tubes I've accumulated for Elise. 
  
 Only comment I should make so far is the 5998's are very clear and in my set-up are not distorting, but in general the 6080's have a bigger sound-stage.


----------



## hypnos1

richard89 said:


> Hey all - I'm checking back in. I received my setup with the 6XEL3N and am enjoying it. I'm curious as to how much better it can get, particularly with the Tung Sol 5998, as I've seen many members list it as favorite. Can you guys tell me if any of the 5998 combos trumps the 6XEL3N's? I saw that you mentioned 5998 + EL3N were great @UntilThen, how does the 5998 + C3G or ECC31 measure among them? Really thanks in advance. Richard


 
  
 Hi r89...good to hear from you again, and glad you're enjoying your current set-up.
  
 As you will have gathered by now this is an _*extremely*_ difficult and contentious subject...some love this, others love that - and sometimes there seems no real logic behind vastly diverging opinions, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It really is a case of "sucking it and see" alas...with the inevitable associated risks! In the end, of course, it comes down to just how inquisitive one is, along with the size of wallet/support (or otherwise!) of GF/wife!! Unfortunately, it usually takes a fair bit of trial and error to find one's true favourite "sound"...but even this can change over time LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 The 5998 is loved by many, but its price now can make it rather risky. The more reasonably priced 6520; Chatham (or Tung Sol/Chatham) 6AS7G, 7236 or other 6080 types can also perform extremely well...but once again, results will vary between systems and ears - ie. no gurantees!! And when you take into account the interplay between these and different drivers, the picture gets even more confusing. One needs to do as much research as possible - preferably on other threads/forums/tube sites as well as here, to perhaps get a bit clearer overall picture...and then take the plunge with all fingers crossed!
  
 What I would say however is ask yourself just what you think may be  missing in your 6EL3N set-up, which @UntilThen himself loves. Read his previous descriptions/impressions of this combo, and if your own match his then compare with what he says about other combos...this may just give you a bit more idea as to whether you need to look any further anyway...could save you a lot of (expensive) unfruitful searching! However, if funds permit, this search can be extremely interesting and great FUN. And if you manage to get really good strong or NOS tubes at a 'reasonable' price they will probably be good investments anyway...WIN, WIN!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 So I wish you the best of luck in your decisions/choices...you have entered what some would call that "Rabbit Hole" LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

@richard89
  
 I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair of those dual EL3N/6SN7 adapters so should soon be able to answer this question.


----------



## UntilThen

A lot depends on what headphone you're using and associated gear with Elise, when you're evaluating power tubes. As @hypnos1 pointed out, that depends on what drivers you're pairing it with too. Drivers will determine the eventual sound outcome too. Then there will be different ears, different taste. 
  
 Tubes that are quite contrasting are 6xEL3N and 6SN7/6AS7. 6xEL3N has more layers, a wider soundstage. 6SN7/6AS7 has a leaner tone by comparison. This is just using very simplistic terms to describe their differences. In actual fact, there's more to it. It's best to listen to it yourself and then you can form your own opinion. To take it even further, combine 6SN7 with 6080, then you'll get an even leaner tone.
  
 If you're using a more 'analytical' sounding headphone like HD800 or T1, you'll probably find using 6xEL3N more suitable. If on the other hand, you're using stock HD650 or HD800S, you'll probably get a better pairing with 6SN7/6AS7 or 6080.
  
 Everyone hears things a bit different. I do not find 6080 having a wider soundstage than 6AS7. On the contrary, 6AS7 sounds to me having a wider soundstage than 6080.
  
 It is intriguing to tube roll with Elise. Most owners will go through that phase of self discovery. Eventually they will settle on their own favorites. Then it's time to sit back and just enjoy your music, be it Beethoven, Mozart, Metallica, Diana Krall, Lee Ritenour, Bob Dylan or James Horner.


----------



## Suuup

I've been running my Fivre 6SN7 for a while now. I've not had many desires to listen to much music. I'd put something on, but after a few songs, I'd turn it off again, not really satisfied. 
  
 Today, I decided to put in my 6N7G again, a pair of Mazdas. I'm not really one for sensationalist sound impressions, but I've gotta say, all the joy is back now. Can't get enough music. The 6SN7 has a good tonal balance, but they're very closed in. The 6N7G is very open and invites for a good soundstage. Makes all the difference to me.


----------



## richard89

Thanks for all the feedback folks, I really appreciate it. After reading through all your comments, I'm interested in the Chatham 6AS7Gs to power the EL3N's. I'm on vacuumtubes.net and see that they are selling for 20$ a piece. Is this typically what they run for? Eventually I'll be wanting to try the Mullard 6080 and Tung Sol 7326, and the Tung Sol 5998 combinations as well. Mainly, I want to explore these power tube combinations with the EL3N's using my unmodded HD650 before I proceed with any other listening combinations. Can anyone provide me with the pricing how much these power tubes typically sell for so that I can know what to expect when I begin shopping for them? Right now, I don't really find anything missing from the 6 pack EL3N combination. When I first heard it, I was quite blown away. One thing noticeable to me was the spaciousness and how potent it sounded. Still, it got me wondering to how much better it could sound and that's what lead me back here. Thank you all! Richard


----------



## UntilThen

$20 a piece for Chatham 6AS7G? Are you kidding me??? I'm gonna buy me at least a pair RIGHT NOW.
  
 Richard, don't wait. Run and buy it now at that price and I really hope it's the Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I've been running my Fivre 6SN7 for a while now. I've not had many desires to listen to much music. I'd put something on, but after a few songs, I'd turn it off again, not really satisfied.
> 
> Today, I decided to put in my 6N7G again, a pair of Mazdas. I'm not really one for sensationalist sound impressions, but I've gotta say, all the joy is back now. Can't get enough music. The 6SN7 has a good tonal balance, but they're very closed in. The 6N7G is very open and invites for a good soundstage. Makes all the difference to me.




Hello Suuup..!

Hear ya! I get in the doldrums sometimes too. Glad to hear you have tubes that INSPIRE.

6N7G are great for bringing the music alive and making it exciting! I'm with ya! One of my favorite drivers for Elise is a wonderful European 6N7G derivative...

The FDD20's....such a perfect balance of tight, articulated bass, smooth treble, sound stage/depth and that awesome "realness" like the musicians are in the room.

Yeah for all the *LUCKY ONES*


----------



## richard89

Hey UT, I'll be sure to get them tomorrow on my payday. Do you think it'd still be worth it to invest in some TS 5998 if I dive in the Chatham 6AS7G? Just would like some more info on the sonic differences before and if I decide to place the big dollars on a pair of 5998's. I'm not much interested in a clinical sound, my lean is more towards warmth, bass impact, and overall musicality. Thank you. Richard


----------



## UntilThen

Get the Chatham 6as7g first Richard. It has all the attributes you're looking for. Take your time with the 5998. There's no rush.

I like the 5998. It's energetic and dynamic but also expensive. I also like the Chatham 6as7g. They're both good power tubes.

Chatham 6as7g is clear and breezy with a good bass impact. 5998 has even more excitement across the frequency spectrum most notably the bass. It has a higher mu resulting in more gain... louder.


----------



## hypnos1

richard89 said:


> Hey UT, I'll be sure to get them tomorrow on my payday. Do you think it'd still be worth it to invest in some TS 5998 if I dive in the Chatham 6AS7G? Just would like some more info on the sonic differences before and if I decide to place the big dollars on a pair of 5998's. I'm not much interested in a clinical sound, my lean is more towards *warmth, bass impact, and overall musicality*. Thank you. Richard


 
 Hi Richard.
  
 Chathams for $20?...I'm afraid it looks to me like the "tube list" page is like 100 yrs behind the latest price  list LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...sorry...but good luck anyway...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 From your leaning, I suspect very little will fill the bill more than your 6EL3Ns....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....but good luck with this also...


----------



## UntilThen

Richard, vacuumtube.net just replied to my email. They are out of stock on the Chatham 6AS7G. It's going to be hard to find any Chatham 6AS7G anf 6520 now.


----------



## Suuup

Chatham 6AS7G is really good. I've been running my pair for weeks now!


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> Chatham 6AS7G is really good. I've been running my pair for weeks now!




I like mine too, but mine are _very_ microphonic.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I like mine too, but mine are _very_ microphonic.


 
  
 Hey JV....you seem to be _*extremely*_ unlucky with your tubes, compared to most lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## JazzVinyl

I don't remember mine starting out microphonic. But they sure are now. Plug in the 'phones and you hear several seconds of ca-chaaaaaaang ringing. Tap on the deck of the amp...it's easily heard. 

I would say I have had a lot more luck that some. The unlucky one with tubes has to be aqsw...he has sold off or given away: 5998, Mazda 6N7G, and FDD20.

He could not run a bunch of tubes everyone else could.


----------



## pctazhp

suuup said:


> Chatham 6AS7G is really good. I've been running my pair for weeks now!


 
 I really like mine too. Probably my favorite power tubes. I don't notice any microphonics - at least nothing more than most other tubes I have tried, which is almost zero.
  
 It's a shame that apparently they are now difficult to acquire.


----------



## Suuup

I haven't had any problems with my 6AS7G being microphonic at all. I have a microphonic pair of 6N7G. 
  
 I believe I paid around 75$ for my pair including shipping? Something like that.


----------



## JazzVinyl

suuup said:


> I haven't had any problems with my 6AS7G being microphonic at all. I have a microphonic pair of 6N7G.
> 
> I believe I paid around 75$ for my pair including shipping? Something like that.




I bought my (4) Chatham 6AS7G's as "pulls" from old military surplus gear. All four for some super cheap price. When they arrived, one was completely dead.

But I would bet mine had a rough life, doing duty for Uncle Sam....


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I bought my (4) Chatham 6AS7G's as "pulls" from old military surplus gear. All four for some super cheap price. When they arrived, one was completely dead.
> 
> But I would bet mine had a rough life, doing duty for Uncle Sam....


 
  
 JV...there's a lot to be said for sticking to NOS tubes, lol!...unless _*hyper*_-unlucky LOL!!...


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> I bought my (4) Chatham 6AS7G's as "pulls" from old military surplus gear. All four for some super cheap price. When they arrived, one was completely dead.
> 
> But I would bet mine had a rough life, doing duty for Uncle Sam....


 
 Take good care of them!! Interesting that back in the days when our military used tubes we used to win wars


----------



## richard89

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Richard.
> 
> Chathams for $20?...I'm afraid it looks to me like the "tube list" page is like 100 yrs behind the latest price  list LOL!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I actually glad to hear that. I don't feel like dropping money on tubes unless it offers me a signature that's different but just as good as the 6 X EL3N already is. UT -- would the Chatham 6AS7G be the other side of the summit? Would 5998's or the 6520's be their own summits?
  
 That's a shame that they are out, I was planning to do more research and possibly spend some money on tubes this weekend.


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> I actually glad to hear that. I don't feel like dropping money on tubes unless it offers me a signature that's different but just as good as the 6 X EL3N already is. UT -- would the Chatham 6AS7G be the other side of the summit? Would 5998's or the 6520's be their own summits?
> 
> That's a shame that they are out, I was planning to do more research and possibly spend some money on tubes this weekend.


 
  
 If you like a warm, musical, smoother sound signature with ample sound stage I find these are very good. There are loads for sale on eBAY.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1956-RCA-6AS7G-6AS7-Vacuum-Tubes-Test-Date-Matched-pair-Black-plate-3-Mica-/331804765650?hash=item4d411aedd2:g:x1gAAOSwu1VW6cfs


----------



## richard89

howie13 said:


> If you like a warm, musical, smoother sound signature with ample sound stage I find these are very good. There are loads for sale on eBAY.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1956-RCA-6AS7G-6AS7-Vacuum-Tubes-Test-Date-Matched-pair-Black-plate-3-Mica-/331804765650?hash=item4d411aedd2:g:x1gAAOSwu1VW6cfs


 
  
 Thanks HOWIE, I saw that you mentioned earlier you were going to pull the trigger on the dual adapters -- could you do a comparison between the two for me? Another thing I think I'd really want is luscious and full-bodied vocals, not that I don't get that with the 6XEL3N, but would possibly be interested in pursuing something else in the same category. Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> I actually glad to hear that. I don't feel like dropping money on tubes unless it offers me a signature that's different but just as good as the 6 X EL3N already is. UT -- would the Chatham 6AS7G be the other side of the summit? Would 5998's or the 6520's be their own summits?
> 
> That's a shame that they are out, I was planning to do more research and possibly spend some money on tubes this weekend.


 

 Pretty much. Those are summits according to UntilThen. @hypnos1 summit is GEC 6AS7G. For that you've to climb higher. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 @Lord Raven was selling Chatham 6AS7G for $65 a pair recently. He has sold all of it and probably bought himself a nice T1.


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> I'm not much interested in a clinical sound, my lean is more towards *warmth, bass impact, and overall musicality*.


 
  
 I'm handling you the seal as ambassador for 6xEL3N now. You've described it spot on. I might add ... wide soundstage. Full bodied and lucious. You're gonna make Cassandra Wilson jealous.
  
 Richard, what do you listen to?
  
 Anyway I did another photo specially for you.


----------



## mordy

Hi richard89,
  
 I have had very good experience with the Tung Sol 7236 as powers and the EL3N as drivers. YMMV....The TS 7236 seem to me to be similar to the TS 5998 but priced lower.
  
 Sylvania also made a 7236, but it does not get the same great reviews as the the Tung Sol version.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh yes how did I forget 7236. Thanks Mordy.
  
 My fav power tubes are:-
 5998
 7236
 Chatham 6AS7G or 6520 (these are similar sounding ... well almost. It is said that the 6520 are the premium version of 6AS7G)
 6xEL3N
  
 One benefit of 6xEL3N. I could leave this on the whole day and it is only lukewarm.


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> I'm handling you the seal as ambassador for 6xEL3N now. You've described it spot on. I might add ... wide soundstage. Full bodied and lucious. You're gonna make Cassandra Wilson jealous.
> 
> Richard, what do you listen to?
> 
> Anyway I did another photo specially for you.


 
  
 I do like the look of it too UT. I listen to just about any kind of music, on my playlist right now are Lowell Lo and Faye Wong.
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi richard89,
> 
> I have had very good experience with the Tung Sol 7236 as powers and the EL3N as drivers. YMMV....The TS 7236 seem to me to be similar to the TS 5998 but priced lower.
> 
> Sylvania also made a 7236, but it does not get the same great reviews as the the Tung Sol version.


 
  
 Thanks for this mordy. I'll look into finding a pair of these since they are getting praise from everyone here as well.


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Thanks HOWIE, I saw that you mentioned earlier you were going to pull the trigger on the dual adapters -- could you do a comparison between the two for me? Another thing I think I'd really want is luscious and full-bodied vocals, not that I don't get that with the 6XEL3N, but would possibly be interested in pursuing something else in the same category. Thanks


 
 I've ordered the adapters from Mrs X. They usually take about 10 days. I'll be happy to compare with the rest of my stuff. That's the whole point of my existence! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't forget the 'Christmas tree' setup. This give a very lush, warm sound in a very capacious sound stage if coupled with appropriate drivers, like EL3N's or C3G's. The cost with adapters, however, is about £250 for good tubes, unless you already have some of the tubes required ie. 6J5 and 6BL7.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi richard89,
> 
> I have had very good experience with the Tung Sol 7236 as powers and the EL3N as drivers. YMMV....The TS 7236 seem to me to be similar to the TS 5998 but priced lower.
> 
> Sylvania also made a 7236, but it does not get the same great reviews as the the Tung Sol version.


 
 I've been listening to both those 7236 tubes too in the last few days with C3G's as drivers.
  
 They are indeed different.
  
 The Sylvania has a rather restricted sound-stage, has a good solid bass but sounds electronically 'processed'. It's transparent but lacks dynamics. It's a bit like my O2 amp.
  
 The Tung-Sol is a bit warmer, though has a hard edge at higher volumes in the upper-mids,( this may not be present with EL3N's as drivers). Treble is less extended than the Sylvania, the sound being closer and smoother with less detail but there's more 'atmosphere'.. I thought this would potentially be a more useful tube for me than the Sylvania. I must try it with different drivers.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @richard89 and @HOWIE13...must admit I personally wasn't very keen on the RCA 6AS7G. In my setup (and ears!) I found them to be rather congested, lacking the clarity/air/precision/fine detail/finesse of tubes like the Chathams, for example...not in the same class IMHO, lol...YMMV of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @richard89 and @HOWIE13...must admit I personally wasn't very keen on the RCA 6AS7G. In my setup (and ears!) I found them to be rather congested, lacking the clarity/air/precision/fine detail/finesse of tubes like the Chathams, for example...not in the same class IMHO, lol...YMMV of course!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sure, a warm, smooth sound is not my cup of tea either, but I thought what they do they do well-at least with C3G drivers. Probably would be somewhat congested with some drivers though if they were also warm and smooth.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Sure, a warm, smooth sound is not my cup of tea either, but I thought what they do they do well-at least with C3G drivers. Probably would be somewhat congested with some drivers though if they were also warm and smooth.


 
  
 Yo indeed H13...those C3gs do sometimes need a bit of 'softening' lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Yo indeed H13...those C3gs do sometimes need a bit of 'softening' lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's what I like about the C3g's.  Lots of dynamic detail which really gets me on the edge of my seat.
  
 I can appreciate they won't be to everyone's taste though.


----------



## i20bot

Anyone run HD700's on the Elise?  Just got HD700 but it doesn't sound good on my current setup.  I actually prefer running them out of my phone than on my DAC/AMP lol.  So I was thinking of getting rid of my current equipment and getting the Elise.  How does that sound to you guys?  lol.


----------



## UntilThen

i20bot said:


> Anyone run HD700's on the Elise?  Just got HD700 but it doesn't sound good on my current setup.  I actually prefer running them out of my phone than on my DAC/AMP lol.  So I was thinking of getting rid of my current equipment and getting the Elise.  How does that sound to you guys?  lol.


 

@pctazhp will tell you more. HD700 was his summit headphone with Elise until he listen to the T1 and eventually the HD800S.
  
 Getting Elise sounds good to me.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp will tell you more. HD700 was his summit headphone with Elise until he listen to the T1 and eventually the HD800S.
> 
> Getting Elise sounds good to me.


 
 It's been a long time since I listened to my HD700 on the Elise. I recently sold them and so I can't try them now.
  
 I really liked them with the Elise but eventually the high frequency peak started to bother me a lot. 
  
 I can certainly recommend the Elise. It is wonderful. But I don't personally believe in solving things in a headphone such as high frequency peaks by either a new amp or new DAC. I'm not clear on what is bothering you with the HD700 and your current DAC/AMP. If you can be more specific, perhaps I can help you.


----------



## hypnos1

i20bot said:


> Anyone run HD700's on the Elise?  Just got HD700 but it doesn't sound good on my current setup.  I actually prefer running them out of my phone than on my DAC/AMP lol.  So I was thinking of getting rid of my current equipment and getting the Elise.  How does that sound to you guys?  lol.


 
  
 Hi i20bot.
  
 pctazph has replied to you via a post to UntilThen above...hopefully he will be able to shed a bit more light on the subject for you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Perhaps there's a mod for this on the 700s, like the one for a similar aspect in the Beyer T1?...hope you resolve it one way or another, as the Elise is one cracking, (very!) reasonably priced amp...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## Jozurr

Regardless or price, which driver tubes do you consider the best? I have a pair of ECC31 incoming, and Im wondering if there are better tubes out there of any kind that are worth trying.


----------



## connieflyer

i20bot said:


> Anyone run HD700's on the Elise?  Just got HD700 but it doesn't sound good on my current setup.  I actually prefer running them out of my phone than on my DAC/AMP lol.  So I was thinking of getting rid of my current equipment and getting the Elise.  How does that sound to you guys?  lol.


 
 I have had the 700's with the elise amp and really liked them.  I had used 650's for years before teh 700's, and after buying the elise, I was even more impressed with the 700's.  I had a chance to get the beyer t 1 first gen, and they sound great as well until the left driver gave out, returned them and got the Senn 800 and comparing them to the 700, I found the 800 to be superior in the breadth and depth of the sound stage, bu the 700 worked very well. Still,  use the 800 some but don't use the amp and headphone much anymore as when my wife died I now have everything including the computer running through the main music system and find I don't use the phones and amp much anymore.  The 700's some people have had a problem with a spike in the treble, but mine never had that problem. They are very resolving , what is it about them that makes you feel they are better through your phone, and what equipment are you using as an amp/dac?


----------



## i20bot

connieflyer said:


> I have had the 700's with the elise amp and really liked them.  I had used 650's for years before teh 700's, and after buying the elise, I was even more impressed with the 700's.  I had a chance to get the beyer t 1 first gen, and they sound great as well until the left driver gave out, returned them and got the Senn 800 and comparing them to the 700, I found the 800 to be superior in the breadth and depth of the sound stage, bu the 700 worked very well. Still,  use the 800 some but don't use the amp and headphone much anymore as when my wife died I now have everything including the computer running through the main music system and find I don't use the phones and amp much anymore.  The 700's some people have had a problem with a spike in the treble, but mine never had that problem. They are very resolving , what is it about them that makes you feel they are better through your phone, and what equipment are you using as an amp/dac?


 
 I have the Oppo HA-1 and the thing with that is it seems to have like a built in crossfeed or something.  It gives you a soundstage, which I like for speakers and small stage headphones, but on the HD700, which already has a big soundstage, the Oppo HA-1 applies it's own soundstage onto it so it thins it out.  So when I plugged it into my phone, it was fuller sounding and had a little more bass.  Yeah, I don't really have a problem with the treble spike, but at this point, I'm rethinking my whole setup.


----------



## connieflyer

I downloaded the manual and noticed the gain settings.  The default is high gain for and is 18db higher than the normal setting. It says it is for low sensitivity or high impedance headphones, with the hd700 I believe that this setting should be set to normal as the impedance of the pnones is 150ohms and it is a high sensitivity headphone.  I don't know which setting you are using, if it is the default, that could be the problem. This should be a good amp from what I have read about it. I would check to see if the setting is high or normal.  Just my two cents worth.  Good luck


----------



## JazzVinyl

howie13 said:


> I would like to try that new Schiit DAC but Schiit UK doesn't appear to have any in stock at present.
> 
> Meantime I dug out my old Muse Mini TDA 1543x4, which cost $50, and it sounds very good with Elise.




I returned the Modi MultiBit and got my money back. 

After reading much praise for the Muse TDA 1543x4 DAC, and the fact that it can be easily modded, I have ordered one. 

Plan to "fancy up" the output caps and try it out. It's a unique DAC in that it does not employ OPAMPS after decoding the ones and zeros. 

Thought it would be fun to try this between the DAC and Elise to get close to "H1 land"...and his tube DAC:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1set-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-6N11-tube-buffer-preamp-for-MUSICAL-FIDELITY-X10d-PCB-kits-/191627380550

Cheers....







.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> I returned the Modi MultiBit and got my money back.
> 
> After reading much praise for the Muse TDA 1543x4 DAC, and the fact that it can be easily modded, I have ordered one.
> 
> ...


 
 I'll be most interested in your results.


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> I returned the Modi MultiBit and got my money back.
> 
> After reading much praise for the Muse TDA 1543x4 DAC, and the fact that it can be easily modded, I have ordered one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've just realised what this is-it's the inside of the M-F X10-D and I used to have one. I used it years ago with my room set-up. I think it had Philips 6922 tubes in it-with blue print if I remember correctly. I used it with my room set-up. It was helpful. Of course, in those days I didn't know one tube from another. They were just 'tubes'.


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I returned the Modi MultiBit and got my money back.
> 
> After reading much praise for the Muse TDA 1543x4 DAC, and the fact that it can be easily modded, I have ordered one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Should be interesting, JV...
  


howie13 said:


> I've just realised what this is-it's the inside of the M-F X10-D and I used to have one. I used it years ago with my room set-up. I think it had Philips 6922 tubes in it-with blue print if I remember correctly. I used it with my room set-up. It was helpful. Of course, in those days I didn't know one tube from another. They were just 'tubes'.


 
  
 Should be _doubly_ interesting then, H13!...(but still implore you to keep working on the missus, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...).


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Should be interesting, JV...
> 
> 
> Should be _doubly_ interesting then, H13!...(but still implore you to keep working on the missus, lol!
> ...


 
 I gave my X10-D away to a friend, who has since died, and I've no idea where it is now. It was an odd looking thing, but a great focus for party chat stuck on top of the mantelpiece.
 It definitely brought more warmth to my set-up at that time but I wished it had a power switch. Although MF recommend leaving it constantly running I really prefer to swtich most things off, or at least to standby, when I go to bed.
  
 As for the missus-well she's having a 'freaky' today over our younger daughter who has yet again lost her bank card and needs money urgently, as usual!
 At least I'm off her radar- for now, which is just as well as I had a scare with channel imbalance earlier on, thankfully it was a dodgy driver, and nothing more serious. Phew!


----------



## DecentLevi

So @HOWIE13, what are your current favorite tube combos, experimental or otherwise standard?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> So @HOWIE13, what are your current favorite tube combos, experimental or otherwise standard?


 
 Hi DL
  
 I see you have been busy in a new job and I can only sit for short periods at present due to sciatica so my listening is a bit curtailed.
  
 I am now going to try various single tube options as powers using C3g's as drivers as I like their lively, dynamic presence.
  
 So I've tried some 6AS7's, 6080's 7236's and am about to listen to some 5998's. I have listened briefly to them all and they are all good sounding on casual listening, though most tubes are with Elise. What I need to do is compare with the 6BL7+ dual 6J5 combos per channel,(Christmas Tree set-up), which are my favourite to date.
  
 Using HD600 and AKG 702's.
  
 Trust you are enjoying your new work.


----------



## DecentLevi

Cool to hear back from you. I would definitely be interested to see which of those power setups are your favorite. It seems 5998's are all the buzz these days on the other Elise thread, and the 6AS7 (that I've tried anyway) wasn't so impressive. But let me know how they suit you, when you get the chance.
  
 I'm also still basking in the glorious combination that is the 6BL7 + dual 6J5 per channel (Christmas tree setup) as my unrivaled champion... immaculate tonality & realism, expansive soundstage and vividness in spades... the "transcendental" combo!
  
 Yup I've had only time for brief skimming on HF lately. I've gotten a job assembling parts for Tesla cars... also as somewhat of an environmentalist, it feels nice to know I'm riding my e-bike to a factory that produces electric cars!


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Cool to hear back from you. I would definitely be interested to see which of those power setups are your favorite. It seems 5998's are all the buzz these days on the other Elise thread, and the 6AS7 (that I've tried anyway) wasn't so impressive. But let me know how they suit you, when you get the chance.
> 
> I'm also still basking in the glorious combination that is the 6BL7 + dual 6J5 per channel (Christmas tree setup) as my unrivaled champion... immaculate tonality & realism, expansive soundstage and vividness in spades... the "transcendental" combo!
> 
> Yup I've had only time for brief skimming on HF lately. I've gotten a job assembling parts for Tesla cars... also as somewhat of an environmentalist, it feels nice to know I'm riding my e-bike to a factory that produces electric cars!


 
  
 I would love an electric bike but the wife says I would fall off it.
  
 It's just a pity you're not making Tesla electronic vacuum tubes!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 PS Agree about the Christmas tree set-up. That's the one the others have to better.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Cool to hear back from you. I would definitely be interested to see which of those power setups are your favorite. It seems 5998's are all the buzz these days on the other Elise thread, and the 6AS7 (that I've tried anyway) wasn't so impressive. But let me know how they suit you, when you get the chance.
> 
> I'm also still basking in the glorious combination that is the 6BL7 + dual 6J5 per channel (Christmas tree setup) as my unrivaled champion... immaculate tonality & realism, expansive soundstage and vividness in spades... the "transcendental" combo!
> 
> Yup I've had only time for brief skimming on HF lately. I've gotten a job assembling parts for Tesla cars... also as somewhat of an environmentalist, it feels nice to know I'm riding my e-bike to a factory that produces electric cars!


 
  
 Well I have to admit this set-up sounds very very good indeed!
  
  

  
 .... and now having seen the photo I'm going to give Elise a good dusting.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah sometimes you don't notice it's dusty until after a photo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So in what ways would you you say TS 5998 compares to the 'Christmas tree' setup? I'd also like to try more single driver/power tubes too when I'm able.
  
 And for anyone on the sidelines wondering why it's so quiet around here, this is the newer Elise thread


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yeah sometimes you don't notice it's dusty until after a photo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Too soon to define the differences as only had them on for 30 minutes and no A/B yet, but their audible frequency responses sound very similar to the Christmas tree.
  
 I have a feeling the Christmas tree has a slightly larger sound-stage and more atmosphere around the sound, and the 5998's have a bit more inner detail and transparency.
  
 Early days.


----------



## louisxiawei

Hey guys, 
  
 Quite new here. Hope you guys can help me out, 852 pages of information is just too much for me to read them at once.
  
 Recently considering buying the Elise instead of Espressivo. But anyone can suggest the best power and driver tube combination? I'm currently using Lehmann linear and ARCAM irdac for my T1 2nd, find too neutral and a little bit sonic. Prefer a warm, lush, musical sound from T1.2 yet still don't lose the clarity and the speed. Any suggestion?
  
 Plus, I see there are 2 options for the Elise when purchasing, one is standard - Tung Sol6SN7, another is upgraded version: Premium drivers. Quite confused about that upgraded one, what is the model of the premium drivers?
  
 Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## DecentLevi

louisxiawei said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quite new here. Hope you guys can help me out, 852 pages of information is just too much for me to read them at once.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well my attempt at compiling a "best of" posting on page 507 would be a decent start, and give you a good picture:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/7590#post_12321268


----------



## UntilThen

louisxiawei said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quite new here. Hope you guys can help me out, 852 pages of information is just too much for me to read them at once.
> 
> ...


 

 If your preference is warm and lush with the speed and clarity, standard Elise will give you that. The 2 version of Elise is essentially the difference in driver tubes. The upgraded Elise use the Melz tubes which you pay a premium price for.
  
 It doesn't take much to improve on the stock tubes though. Sylvania 6SN7wgt or Ken Rad 6SN7gt VT231 with Chatham 6AS7G will do nicely.
  
 I'm running on ECC31 and Chatham 6520 with T1 original. I think you'll be pleased with this combo but ECC31 is scarce now and expensive. There should be less expensive options to get your sonic preference. The Sylvania and Ken Rad mentioned with even RCA 6AS7G (cheaper and more readily available than Chatham) comes to mind.
  
 Like I say, start with Elise with standard tubes. You will love it. @supersonic395 is using that with T1 G2 and loves it.


----------



## HOWIE13

I couldn't agree more with UntilThen concerning the stock tubes and the lush warmth of the RCA's. For some the RCA's are too smooth and warm, but if you like that type of sound signature they are perfect with Elise. They are readily available and not expensive either. The stock tubes are quite warm and lush though.
  
 There seem to be two types of RCA 6AS7's from my limited experience, one with a clear top and one with a chrome top. To me they sound identical. Hope that helps.
  
 The other thing is the FA website doesn't actually say the upgraded tubes are Melz any more like they used to. It would be worth checking what they are offering before you commit to upgrade if that's a consideration for you. I get the impression not many have opted for the upgrade, I could be wrong but there isn't much said about the Melz on Elise Forums that I've seen (and I confess to not reading EVERY page)! Mind you, I guess there must be lots of people purchasing Elise who don't use these Forums.
  
 I'm sure you will get lots of further advice on this thread if need be.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## louisxiawei

Just contact Feliks audio, the delivery time will be two weeks! Such a long time to wait. Meanwhile, checked a very similar look tube amplifier Icon Audio HP8 MkII, anyone has listened to both two and compare them?
  
 I'm UK now, so purchasing Icon Audio HP8 MkII is a lot more easier and can get a lot faster delivery. Struggling now.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Just contact Feliks audio, the delivery time will be two weeks! Such a long time to wait. Meanwhile, checked a very similar look tube amplifier Icon Audio HP8 MkII, anyone has listened to both two and compare them?
> 
> I'm UK now, so purchasing Icon Audio HP8 MkII is a lot more easier and can get a lot faster delivery. Struggling now.


 
  
 2 weeks- that's speeded up!  FA did say a while back they were working on speeding up production, so that's good.
  
 As for Icon Audio, I think you are only about an hour from Leicester. I would make an appointment to visit and have a good listen.
  
 Maybe I missed it but I don't think they quote the output impedance or even output power so if that's important to you it's worth checking up. Again, listening would tell if it's got adequate power for your needs.


----------



## pctazhp

louisxiawei said:


> Just contact Feliks audio, the delivery time will be two weeks! Such a long time to wait. Meanwhile, checked a very similar look tube amplifier Icon Audio HP8 MkII, anyone has listened to both two and compare them?
> 
> I'm UK now, so purchasing Icon Audio HP8 MkII is a lot more easier and can get a lot faster delivery. Struggling now.


 
 I don't recall seeing a comparison with the HP8 MkII but you could try a search of the thread. Most of us (including me) had to wait over 2 months to get our Elise (and I'm very grateful I did), so it's a little difficult to sympathize with a 2 week wait..
  
 I can't speak for others, but I can say I think Elise represents the pinnacle for what you get, sounds great with stock tubes, and allows for numerous tube rolling options, many of which can take it to pretty amazing heights in sound quality.


----------



## louisxiawei

howie13 said:


> 2 weeks- that's speeded up!  FA did say a while back they were working on speeding up production, so that's good.
> 
> As for Icon Audio, I think you are only about an hour from Leicester. I would make an appointment to visit and have a good listen.
> 
> Maybe I missed it but I don't think they quote the output impedance or even output power so if that's important to you it's worth checking up. Again, listening would tell if it's got adequate power for your needs.


 
 Thanks Howie,
  
 Tyll's review on innerfidelity attracts my attention of the Icon Audio, since he even mentioned that it is great amp especially with T1. The Elise support from 30 - 600 ohm, but Icon Audio HP8 supports from 6 - 600 ohm, in a more wider range. Hereinafter is the measurement done by Tyll for Icon Audio.
  
 Low setting - 451mW at 32 ohm, 720mW at 50 ohm, 667mW at 150 ohm
 Mid setting - 735mW and 10.5Vrms at 150 ohm, 653mW and 14Vrms at 300 ohm
 High setting - 403mW and 11Vrms at 300 ohm, 482mW and 17Vrms at 600 ohm
  
 The only thing I feel a bit disappointed is that Icon Audio cannot be used as pre-amp like my Lehman amplifier so that can change my active speaker's sound a bit. I suppose Elise can used as pre-amp as described in the manual. 
  
 Just talked to them on the phone, Icon Audio's HP8 is really more expensive than Elise. Amplifier itself cost £700. A Jensen capacitor upgrade costs me £125 more, plus the tube upgrade (£70). 
  
 So again, I'm struggling. Shame that I don't have the time to go there and have a listen. But really like the neat design of Icon audio but shame of no pre-amp function. 
  
 But again, shocking 852 pages of discussion really reflect the merit of the Elise compared to pity 27 pages of Icon audio discussion. 
  
 So help me out guys!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

louisxiawei said:


> Thanks Howie,
> 
> Tyll's review on innerfidelity attracts my attention of the Icon Audio, since he even mentioned that it is great amp especially with T1. The Elise support from 30 - 600 ohm, but Icon Audio HP8 supports from 6 - 600 ohm, in a more wider range. Hereinafter is the measurement done by Tyll for Icon Audio.
> 
> ...


 
 A lot of the discussion in the 852 pages is social in nature or involves music recommendations. But the strong dedication of Elise owners to sharing their experience with the amp and tube options I think speaks volumes about what a truly special amp the Elise is. I feel pretty confident in saying that if you do buy the Elise you will never look back.
  
 As for output impedance, the comparison between the two amps is really irrelevant when it comes to something like the 600 ohm T1. I spent a lot of time with it and the Elise and it is a wonderful match - probably the headphone of choice among most here. The output impedance of the Elise is also irrelevant with my 300 ohm HD800S. In fact, Elise is fine with my 32 ohm HD598s.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Thanks Howie,
> 
> Tyll's review on innerfidelity attracts my attention of the Icon Audio, since he even mentioned that it is great amp especially with T1. The Elise support from 30 - 600 ohm, but Icon Audio HP8 supports from 6 - 600 ohm, in a more wider range. Hereinafter is the measurement done by Tyll for Icon Audio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 852 pages-and that's only one of three threads!
  
 Icon appears to have ample power.
  
 All I can say is there are a lot of very happy Elise owners singing their amp's praises. It's also attracted good comments at gatherings. You also get a two year warranty from FA. Personally speaking I think one year is a bit mean of Icon Audio.
  
 What's two weeks in a lifetime?


----------



## louisxiawei

pctazhp said:


> A lot of the discussion in the 852 pages is social in nature or involves music recommendations. But the strong dedication of Elise owners to sharing their experience with the amp and tube options I think speaks volumes about what a truly special amp the Elise is. I feel pretty confident in saying that if you do buy the Elise you will never look back.
> 
> As for output impedance, the comparison between the two amps is really irrelevant when it comes to something like the 600 ohm T1. I spent a lot of time with it and the Elise and it is a wonderful match - probably the headphone of choice among most here. The output impedance of the Elise is also irrelevant with my 300 ohm HD800S. In fact, Elise is fine with my 32 ohm HD598s.


 
 Thanks a lot, pctazhp,
  
 I have to confess something in front of you. You are the reason I pay attention on Elise since the comments you made on T1.2 thread and the comparison between T1.2 and HD800S on Elise and now I just need FA's confirm that Elise can be used as pre-amp so that can amp my active speaker and tune its sound.Then I will place the order I think.
  
 Moreover, your EL3N/ Tungsol 7236 combination for the T1 on your previous review, I hardly can see someone selling them online in UK. Where did you buy them?
  
 Are you still using T1.2 or HD800S? I remember you want to keep the T1 but put the HD800S on sale, but now I see you using the HD800S again on your signature.


----------



## louisxiawei

howie13 said:


> 852 pages-and that's only one of three threads!
> 
> Icon appears to have ample power.
> 
> ...


 
 Aye! I will place the order of Elise tomorrow. Period!
  
 BTW, do you use Elise as pre-amplifier. I want to use it to amplify my active speaker (Ruark MR1) and tune its sound a bit through Elise. Does it function as pre-amp or it is just a signal loop?


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Thanks a lot, pctazhp,
> 
> I have to confess something in front of you. You are the reason I pay attention on Elise since the comments you made on T1.2 thread and the comparison between T1.2 and HD800S on Elise and now I just need FA's confirm that Elise can be used as pre-amp so that can amp my active speaker and tune its sound.Then I will place the order I think.
> 
> ...


 
 My Elise has pre-outs for pre-amp use.
  
 I haven't used it as a pre-amp but others have. According to my manual it's implied there is a model that does not have pre-outs so you are right to check with FA.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Aye! I will place the order of Elise tomorrow. Period!
> 
> BTW, do you use Elise as pre-amplifier. I want to use it to amplify my active speaker (Ruark MR1) and tune its sound a bit through Elise. Does it function as pre-amp or it is just a signal loop?


 
  
 LOL- I just answered about pre-amp use as you were typing this post! You have made a good choice. Just make sure you are not abroad when Elise arrives in Nottingham.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There are others who have used it as a pre-amp and I don't know how the circuit is set up. Someone else will probably answer your query but, if not, FA will anyway.


----------



## pctazhp

louisxiawei said:


> Thanks a lot, pctazhp,
> 
> I have to confess something in front of you. You are the reason I pay attention on Elise since the comments you made on T1.2 thread and the comparison between T1.2 and HD800S on Elise and now I just need FA's confirm that Elise can be used as pre-amp so that can amp my active speaker and tune its sound.Then I will place the order I think.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks so much for your nice words. With respect to the EL3Ns and TS7236 I bought both on Ebay, but that is a while back. @UntilThen may have an idea of current sources and I'm sure he will respond to you.
  
 The choice between the S and the T1 Gen 2 was not easy to make. If it had been within my budget I would have kept both. There is a special emotional component to the T1 I still miss. But my final choice was based on which one suited my main listening style which is long term listening while I'm working or doing other things at the computer. The S is not as aggressive as the T1. If my main desire had been focused listening to recordings I would have chosen the T1. It is cleaner than the S and does something magical in the bass area that stirs the soul


----------



## HOWIE13

howie13 said:


> My Elise has pre-outs for pre-amp use.
> 
> I haven't used it as a pre-amp but others have. According to my manual it's implied there is a model that does not have pre-outs so you are right to check with FA.


 
  
 The photo on their website clearly shows an RCA phono line out.


----------



## pctazhp

Quote: 





louisxiawei said:


> Aye! I will place the order of Elise tomorrow. Period!
> 
> BTW, do you use Elise as pre-amplifier. I want to use it to amplify my active speaker (Ruark MR1) and tune its sound a bit through Elise. Does it function as pre-amp or it is just a signal loop?


 
 Congratulations))) 
  
 I want to clarify that my current drivers of choice are (A) the Sylvania 6SN7-WTBs, which are not always easy to find, but they still appear on Ebay - I think I paid about $150 a pair for mine, and (B) Fivre 6N7G = ECC31 black plates . "with Horn" anno 1942, which are almost impossible to find now. My favorite power tube is my Chatham 6AS7G but not sure how available it is. I like it better than my 5998s which are out of sight price wise now.   
  
 The GEC 6as7g seem to be the ultimate power tube of choice but they are extremely expensive and almost impossible to find. And you can always try the Christmas Tree and Frankenstein approach to the power tube slots, but guys like @JazzVinyl and @DecentLevi will need to help you with that.
  
 You have a lot to look forward to


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Aye! I will place the order of Elise tomorrow. Period!
> 
> BTW, do you use Elise as pre-amplifier. I want to use it to amplify my active speaker (Ruark MR1) and tune its sound a bit through Elise. Does it function as pre-amp or it is just a signal loop?


 
  
 I don't know if this helps but when I listen with my headphones using the line out, the volume changes as I turn the volume control- and if I pull out a driver I lose the sound on that side, so I guess the line out signal does go through the tube circuit.
  
 I can listen with headphones from the HO at the same time as using the 'line out'- just don't turn up the volume too much while using the 'line out' if you have left your headphones connected to the HO, otherwise your cans may be damaged.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> Congratulations)))
> 
> I want to clarify that my current drivers of choice are (A) the Sylvania 6SN7-WTBs, which are not always easy to find, but they still appear on Ebay - I think I paid about $150 a pair for mine, and (B) Fivre 6N7G = ECC31 black plates . "with Horn" anno 1942, which are almost impossible to find now. My favorite power tube is my Chatham 6AS7G but not sure how available it is. I like it better than my 5998s which are out of sight price wise now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This seller has them- with 14 day return policy too.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi


----------



## louisxiawei

howie13 said:


> I don't know if this helps but when I listen with my headphones using the line out, the volume changes as I turn the volume control- and if I pull out a driver I lose the sound on that side, so I guess the line out signal does go through the tube circuit.
> 
> I can listen with headphones from the HO at the same time as using the 'line out'- just don't turn up the volume too much while using the 'line out' if you have headphones connected to the HO, otherwise your cans may be damaged.


 
 Interesting, so both the pre-amp out and HO will work parallelly. 
  
 Don't think the Elise HO will damage my T1.2 by any means. Elise max power output: 200mW, T1.2 power handling capacity is 400mW. So plenty of safe space I think. But pre-amp line out might damage it.
  
 Thanks for all, gents. I will just stay in Nottingham and wait for it patiently. You guys just start my tube amplifier journey. I will sell my Lehmann amplifier soon. Since then, I will start collecting tubes! . I might also consider buying the  psvane181 6sn7  tube drivers as FA recommends. 
  
 Thanks again and will keep you update once I get them.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Interesting, so both the pre-amp out and HO will work parallelly.
> 
> Don't think the Elise HO will damage my T1.2 by any means. Elise max power output: 200mW, T1.2 power handling capacity is 400mW. So plenty of safe space I think. But pre-amp line out might damage it.
> 
> ...


 
 Looking forward to that.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Interesting, so both the pre-amp out and HO will work parallelly.
> 
> Don't think the Elise HO will damage my T1.2 by any means. Elise max power output: 200mW, T1.2 power handling capacity is 400mW. So plenty of safe space I think. But pre-amp line out might damage it.
> 
> ...


 
 The CV181's are nice tubes- great lookers too. The version I have (it seems there are various grades) is pretty neutral and clean sounding to my ears. Not the most dynamic though.  Good value now, given the astronomical hike in prices of some other Octals recently.
  
 These are the ones I have;
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1PC-Shuguang-Treasure-Series-CV181-Z-Audio-Valve-Vacuum-Tube-for-Amplifier-/261595519004?hash=item3ce84ed81c:g:VX0AAOSwKtlWslVh


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> This seller has them- with 14 day return policy too.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi


 
 That's as much as the amp itself. Please someone buy them quickly and save me from the temptation


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> That's as much as the amp itself. Please someone buy them quickly and save me from the temptation


 
 ...and he even has another pair, £100 more expensive.


----------



## UntilThen

louisxiawei said:


> Moreover, your EL3N/ Tungsol 7236 combination for the T1 on your previous review, I hardly can see someone selling them online in UK. Where did you buy them?


 
 I made some recommendations for some of my favorite tubes in this link. post #9291
  
 You'll also find the link in there on where to purchase EL3N new old stock, at a very good price as well as where to buy the adapters.
  
 Elise does perform very well as a preamp. I've used it on numerous occasions in the lounge with my speakers system. Elise preamp out is input to the preamp in of my receiver but I have to control the volume on Elise.
  
 However, I much prefer headphone listening with T1 and modded HD650.
  
 Congrats on Elise purchase. You will love it with your T1 G2. I can't imagine Elise penetrating the China market. They will have to ramp up production then.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> This seller has them- with 14 day return policy too.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi


 

 No tubes should cost this much. They should just send it to me for evaluation. A brand new pair of GEC 6AS7G does look amazing. This is 2016 and yet there are NOS pairs around.


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> I made some recommendations for some of my favorite tubes in this link. post #9291
> 
> You'll also find the link in there on where to purchase EL3N new old stock, at a very good price as well as where to buy the adapters.
> 
> ...


 
 Exactly. Elise is still not a popular AMP like some of the tube amp from Woo audio in China. If I search the key word FA Elise via our chinese search engine Baidu, only one man mentioning about this and there is no seller on our ebay-like shop Taobao.
  
 I think the potential market will be huge since lots of people comment on chinese hifi forum that not too many amplifiers nowadays are dedicated to tune the T1's sound. I believe there is one tube amp quite hot and lots of people claimed that it's a good match with T1 called DNYA Cor caroli DN1 but disappear on the market now. In most case, plug T1 into some of the top of the line solid-state amplifier, the sound won't be satisfying. 
  
 Thanks for the honest comment on the *6AS7G CV2523. *I will look at your recommended tubes. (Almost want to place the order of £400).
  
 I also see you comparing Elise to some of the Woo audio products on this thread. If Elise has so much potential to be better than some of the Woo audio product like WA2. I think the Elise in this price is just a steal. How's the comparison between Elise and WA2 serving the T1.2? Does Elise still have better potential ability to outperform the more expensive WA2 in T1's case?
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## UntilThen

T1 g1 is great with Elise. I wouldn't bag Wa2. It has a nice tube amp sound but is relax whereas Elise is fleet footed. I like the energy and dynamics from Elise. It has a fast transient response. When you consider the price difference, the choice is simple.
  
 T1 whether G1 or G2 should work very well with Elise. Likewise HD800.


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> T1 g1 is great with Elise. I wouldn't bag Wa2. It has a nice tube amp sound but is relax whereas Elise is fleet footed. I like the energy and dynamics from Elise. It has a fast transient response. When you consider the price difference, the choice is simple.
> 
> T1 whether G1 or G2 should work very well with Elise. Likewise HD800.


 
 Appreciated your help. Now bear with me for another question: what about Elise vs WA22?
  
 Since WA22 can be played around with different tubes. Is it possible that it might be a chance I can make Elise sound better than WA22 ? I know right now I sound a bit greedy.
  
 Sorry if I have too many questions but you are the few people compare WA22 and Elise on the tread. If this tube amp journey is so good, I will consider a balanced output tube amplifier like WA22 in the near future.


----------



## pctazhp

louisxiawei said:


> Appreciated your help. Now bear with me for another question: what about Elise vs WA22?
> 
> Since WA22 can be played around with different tubes. Is it possible that it might be a chance I can make Elise sound better than WA22 ? I know right now I sound a bit greedy.
> 
> Sorry if I have too many questions but you are the few people compare WA22 and Elise on the tread.* If this tube amp journey is so good, I will consider a balanced output tube amplifier like WA22 in the near future. *


 
 Sorry to crash into your discussion with @UntilThen. I don't know anything about the WA22. But I am curious as to why you seem to assume that a balanced amp is necessarily an improvement over a quality single-ended amp. That's a debate that's been going on for decades with opinions all over the map. At the very least, I would say I don't think it makes a lot of sense to use a balanced amp (assuming it is truly balanced) unless you are feeding it with a balanced DAC and of course using a balanced cable for your headphone..
  
 Balanced electronics and cables were originally developed for studio use with long runs to solve problems that don't exist in a typical desktop system. Just saying I would hope that no one would rush into a balanced system without having a good reason to do so.


----------



## UntilThen

I have not heard a WA22 but if you're using T1 G2, Elise is tailor made for it. I don't care if it's single ended or balanced. It just sounds good.


----------



## louisxiawei

pctazhp said:


> Sorry to crash into your discussion with @UntilThen. I don't know anything about the WA22. But I am curious as to why you seem to assume that a balanced amp is necessarily an improvement over a quality single-ended amp. That's a debate that's been going on for decades with opinions all over the map. At the very least, I would say I don't think it makes a lot of sense to use a balanced amp (assuming it is truly balanced) unless you are feeding it with a balanced DAC and of course using a balanced cable for your headphone..
> 
> Balanced electronics and cables were originally developed for studio use with long runs to solve problems that don't exist in a typical desktop system. Just saying I would hope that no one would rush into a balanced system without having a good reason to do so.


 
 Yes, it is a controversial topic as always. I agree with you that a balanced amp must go with balanced DAC output otherwise making no sense.
  
 People often compared single-ended output vs balanced output on the same amp like WA22, and the balanced output is clearly better in terms of dynamic, separation. But that doesn't mean balanced amp will outperform some amp only with single-ended output. So how to compare balanced vs unbalanced does matter.
  
 Also agree with the fact that balanced setup were designed for studio use with long runs. But in more than one practice, balanced does better than the single-ended based on the same setup having both single-ended and balanced option. Guess through all those kind of reviews put this concept in my mind.
  
 That's why I throw the question @UntilThen. Whether the Elise will have any chance to outperform the WA22 as balanced output. To be honest, balanced setup cost a lot more and personally I find it ugly. If  Elise has the potential to compete the WA22, I will prefer sticking to the neat Elise and just focus on the tube combination. More fun than playing with the balanced cable.


----------



## pctazhp

louisxiawei said:


> Yes, it is a controversial topic as always. I agree with you that a balanced amp must go with balanced DAC output otherwise making no sense.
> 
> People often compared single-ended output vs balanced output on the same amp like WA22, and the balanced output is clearly better in terms of dynamic, separation. But that doesn't mean balanced amp will outperform some amp only with single-ended output. So how to compare balanced vs unbalanced does matter.
> 
> ...


 
 This really isn't the place to debate single ended versus balanced. I have followed this debate for decades and one can easily find claims on either side of the issue - as with most of the classic audio debates. Back in my audiophile days my favorite (and actually one of the cheaper) amps I ever owned was Parasound's Halo A21 balanced amp designed by John Curl. I also easily had over $20,000 invested in cables - a mistake I would never make again. Anyway, we all chose how we want to spend our money AND whether we believe that if we just spend more money we get better performance. Good luck in finding what works best for you.


----------



## 2359glenn

louisxiawei said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > T1 g1 is great with Elise. I wouldn't bag Wa2. It has a nice tube amp sound but is relax whereas Elise is fleet footed. I like the energy and dynamics from Elise. It has a fast transient response. When you consider the price difference, the choice is simple.
> ...


 

 The WA22 is a bad comparison it has a common ground on the output so the output is not balanced.
 If balanced is so much better then why is Woo's flagship amps single ended!!!!


----------



## louisxiawei

2359glenn said:


> The WA22 is a bad comparison it has a common ground on the output so the output is not balanced.
> If balanced is so much better then why is Woo's flagship amps single ended!!!!




Thanks for the reply. But I'm a bit confused. Common ground is a bad thing for the output is understandable. 

But i don't think it makes the balanced output to unbalance or you are suggesting something else?

What does that mean? Sorry if the question is stupid.


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> Aye! I will place the order of Elise tomorrow. Period!
> 
> BTW, do you use Elise as pre-amplifier. I want to use it to amplify my active speaker (Ruark MR1) and tune its sound a bit through Elise. Does it function as pre-amp or it is just a signal loop?


 
  
 Belated greetings to you louisx, and WELCOME to Elise land.
  
 Yes indeed...a lot of pages to browse when you have the time - not to mention 62 over at the "Impressions" thread and over 200 at the original one! (If you can speed through the chat I'm sure you would find a lot of useful info in all of them).
  
 Looks like you've already been given a good bit of guidance on tubes. This can be a tricky subject of course, given different preferences/gear/ears. You would definitely get the warmth you look for from the EL3N driver, but I certainly would not want to pair them with the RCA 6AS7G IMHO...much _too_ warm/dark then, I suspect! Much better to look out for the Chathams or Tung Sol/Chathams (with the long _* copper *_posts). As you may have already gathered, I personally rank the GEC 6AS7G variants as unbeatable, but whether they warrant such usual exorbitant prices is open to question!...(now if you could get as unbelievably lucky as @Wreckgar7 and bag a pair of NOS GECs for $240, then I would say one is insane not to grab them with both fists LOL!!).
  
 So FA appear to have gone from the Melz as premium drivers (they always were somewhat unreliable, alas, unless the _very_ expensive rare metal-base/holed plate version) to the PsVane CV181 (TII?)?...if so, these are a good bit more expensive than H13's Shuguangs and most would agree you can do better with the higher grade NOS 6SN7s, or a nice pair of Mullard ECC31s if you can find them at a reasonable price (but need adapters). Many would agree however (including me!), that the EL3N is certainly one of the best bang-for-buck tubes out there, even with adapters.  I really do suggest you try to catch up with past impressions of such tubes as much as you can before final decisions...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 I must admit the Icon Audio does seem very good - nice quality build/components/wiring etc.
 Unlike the Elise - which is an OTL amp, of course - the IA uses the transformer as final output, which does allow for wider HP impedance compatibility. And so, as with the balanced debate, there is the OTL vs transformer-coupled one...tricky! But although Elise also performs very well with _most_ low-z cans, it really shines with the likes of the T1 or HD800 families - to a degree that appears unmatched by any other tube amp anywhere near the Elise's price point...and certainly compared to any SS amp within most ordinary folks' budget IMHO.
  
 I wish you the best of luck with your choices - but your best choice undoubtedly was..._*ELISE!!*_...CHEERS!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps. I find Elise as pre-amp to my Vincent integrated amp quite astounding!!...


----------



## louisxiawei

hypnos1 said:


> Belated greetings to you louisx, and WELCOME to Elise land.
> 
> 
> Looks like you've already been given a good bit of guidance on tubes. This can be a tricky subject of course, given different preferences/gear/ears. You would definitely get the warmth you look for from the EL3N driver, but I certainly would not want to pair them with the RCA 6AS7G IMHO...much _too_ warm/dark then, I suspect! Much better to look out for the Chathams or Tung Sol/Chathams (with the long _* copper *_posts). As you may have already gathered, I personally rank the GEC 6AS7G variants as unbeatable, but whether they warrant such usual exorbitant prices is open to question!...(now if you could get as unbelievably lucky as @Wreckgar7 and bag a pair of NOS GECs for $240, then I would say one is insane not to grab them with both fists LOL!!).
> ...


 
 LOL. This thread is just so friendly. Best experience ever had on Head-fi.
  
 Just paid it through paypal. Now I will try my best to handle these 2-3 weeks' waiting time. In the meanwhile, I will just spend some time everyday to read the pages on this thread. Tube combo is really a fun for me.
  
 Also thanks for your good tips. Looks like GEC 6AS7G variants is really unbeatable. I might still consider it as a future buy while I might invest EL3N first. 
  
 Thank you guys for all the helpful support. Can't wait to start my new journey of my first tube amp. Much appreciated.


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> *LOL. This thread is just so friendly. Best experience ever had on Head-fi.*
> 
> Just paid it through paypal. Now I will try my best to handle these 2-3 weeks' waiting time. In the meanwhile, I will just spend some time everyday to read the pages on this thread. Tube combo is really a fun for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo louisx...I think all here would agree with that!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do hope Lukasz wasn't being over-optimistic with his waiting time estimate...some have had a MUCH longer wait than that in the past! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but it does indeed seem they've ramped up production...
  
 Catching up every day in bite-size pieces is certainly the way to go...don't want you getting indigestion, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and don't forget the "Impressions" thread  :  http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary
  
 Certainly worth keeping an eye open for future GEC/Osram/MWT 6AS7G/CV2523/A1834 beauties...study closely as many photos as you can find of them, so you can recognise them apart from other 6AS7Gs in case a rebranded pair slip through the net - sometimes "Haltron" branded ones appear for example...BUT one must be extra careful here as they also have "Made in England" ones that are in fact rebranded Russian tubes - once again, study the Russians also very carefully and it becomes quite clear they are NOT the GECs...the differences will become clear with close scrutiny...
  
 You certainly chose a very good amp to start in tube land...for most of us it has in fact proved to be probably our "end game" one LOL!...short of winning the lottery!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now the wait...(hopefully not too long a one...).


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Yo louisx...I think all here would agree with that!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If I were ever to buy any GEC's, H1, I would make sure the sale had a two week return and send them straight to you for verification as our local expert. LOL.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> If I were ever to buy any GEC's, H1, I would make sure the sale had a two week return and send them straight to you for verification as our local expert. LOL.


 
  
 Actually H13, you have a very good point there...if anyone ever has the slightest doubt PLEASE, PLEASE send me a photo, either here or in PM and I will gladly verify...I can now smell them from a mile off LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(there has indeed been the odd occasion of "misleading" entries on ebay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Actually H13, you have a very good point there...if anyone ever has the slightest doubt PLEASE, PLEASE send me a photo, either here or in PM and I will gladly verify...I can now smell them from a mile off LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That last comment is certainly an understatement, even to me who has limited knowledge of these things.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm offering free burn in service to 100 hours. Just send me your new GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## connieflyer

Who could refuse such an offer!


----------



## richard89

Hey all.. just thought I should check back in for my findings on my Tung Sol 7236. I won an auction for a pair at only ~31 USD. I must say that I enjoy these with the EL3N as drivers over the 6 pack EL3N so far. The bass is really nice and 'tight' and overall a joy to listen to. From description, I never thought I'd like "tight" bass, but it turns out I like it quite a bit. It seems with the EL3N there are some hum issues. I tried burning them in for about ~80 hours now, sometimes with music, sometimes without. I'm going to have to check them out later though, as I'm really enjoying these 7236 right now. I think my next stop will be to check out the 6AS7G, 6520, and 5998's. Really excited. Thanks again for all the recommendations folks.


----------



## UntilThen

You're an astute buyer now Richard. Glad you like the 7236. You'll be exposed to more variations with other power and driver tubes.

You're going to love them all just like I do.


----------



## DecentLevi

louisxiawei said:


> LOL. This thread is just so friendly. Best experience ever had on Head-fi.
> 
> Just paid it through paypal. Now I will try my best to handle these 2-3 weeks' waiting time. In the meanwhile, I will just spend some time everyday to read the pages on this thread. Tube combo is really a fun for me.
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome to the Elise land, now trying not to be too cliche, now you're one of the _privileged ones!_
 Wowza! Elise as your first tube amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Warning - sonic bemusement on your way! Make sure you have enough time to enjoy the ride.
 I'll tell ya, turning on the Elise on for a fresh listen after a day out is a massive, all encompassing sonic assault on your auditory senses - the new world of hard hitting, multilayered 3D sonic bliss to satisfy them audio cravings! Especially if you're like me, carefully protecting your hearing at a factory all day long with earplugs and on your bike to guard against those howling winds, it's like stepping into a whole other reality.
  
 That's how I feel with the so-called 'Christmas tree' setup anyway with about a 90% burned-in Elise, now just to think how much better it will sound once I've gotten more TOTL tubes and DAC to feed it with.
  
 Anyway if you're more of an experimental tube roller who likes to try new things, this is the thread for you, or the other one for a simpler "one one tube per socket" setup. It's best to check with somebody reputable about the schematics / voltage compatibility though before trying any new concoctions. A few of us around here, or you can ask F.A. but they'll generally give you the cautionary answer.
  
 Enjoy


----------



## mordy

Hi richard89,
  
 Was able to get some 7236 tubes not long ago as well, and I really love the sound of these. It is so clean and tight.
  
 I am trying different combinations with the 7236, EL3N, 20/31, 6SN7, 6N7G, and they all sound very good. I do not have hum issues with the EL3N, but something very strange happened with the ECC31/FDD20 combination.
  
 When using the Elise as a preamp with speakers, there is no hum, but using my headphones (and I tried different ones), there was such a bad hum that it was unlistenable - can't figure out why.
  
 The best sounding 7236 combinations to me are the EL3N and 20/31 at this time (I mainly listen through speakers). Both have a very wide soundstage. The EL3N has tighter bass; the 20/31 has a nicer mid range.


----------



## louisxiawei

decentlevi said:


> Welcome to the Elise land, now trying not to be too cliche, now you're one of the _privileged ones!_
> Wowza! Elise as your first tube amp?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks man. I hope I can handle the sonic assualt from Elise. Using SS amp at the moment like Lehamnn linear and Beyerdynamic A20, the sonic assault from them is 24/7 for me. I usually listen to my T1 no more than 3 hours before feeling fatigue on my ears. So eventually, I go for the the tube amp. I think it's one of my best decision so far.
  
 I'm also more a bit computer audiophile, a while ago, I spent a lot on USB chain optimisation for the purpose of tuning my T1 more musical and more lush sound. (Like Uptone regen, Intona, Curious USB cable, Sbooster Linear PSU), which the total investment is more than one and a half cost of Elise. If let me go back that time again, I think I will put Elise as priority investment.
  
 Now I'm just so curious about the sound from my optimised PC system to the Elise. I'm watching some good combo of tubes on the thread now as my future shopping list. Might trouble you guys for advice from time to time. 
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## richard89

mordy said:


> Hi richard89,
> 
> Was able to get some 7236 tubes not long ago as well, and I really love the sound of these. It is so clean and tight.


 
  
 Hi mordy,
  
 I agree completely. It's hard to describe, but it is nice.
  
 I just looked up the price for the ECC31 and it was very expensive on eBay, are they worth it? I couldn't find anything on the FDD20 though.
  
 I think it may be something with the pins, and it's only for the 6 pack EL3N for me. Right now with the 7236 + EL3N combo it does not hum. But there is some slight hum on the 6 pack when I insert the dual adapters. I think it just needs a little more burn in time. I had tried to reseat it but it is still there slightly.


----------



## louisxiawei

I have done a bit search regarding GEC 6AS7G variants.
  
Got one question:
  
*1. What does the LC39 and LC40 for ?  I saw ebay selling two version of GEC 6AS7G. LC40 costs £100 more than LC39. Can't find any information about it.*
  
 The *GEC 6AS7G (LC39)  *http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi
  
The *GEC 6AS7G (LC40)  *http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6AS7G-A1834-GEC-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC40-/262581613881?hash=item3d23157539:g:2DoAAOSwdzVXtChL
  
*PS: The price of GEC 6AS7G on ebay is really high, check this link below for a UK valve seller, it is much cheaper. *
  
http://www.tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=1490
  
http://www.tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/downloads/jun2012cat.pdf
  
  
 Problem solved. Contact the Billington Export, they told me GEC 6AS7G is rare and not in stock, even it is in stock, they reserve them for those customers who spent £1000 on their other tubes.
  
 LC39 and LC40 codewords are the internal reference for the dealers to find the tubes easily on the shelf, nothing to do with GEC factory 50 years ago.
  
 Damn, the epic good tubes are all rare and expensive like Tung Sol 5998, Amperex A-Frame Orange 6922. Keep looking for alternatives.


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> Hi mordy,
> 
> I agree completely. It's hard to describe, but it is nice.
> 
> ...


 

 I posted on EL3N with 7236 here. post #927
  
 Something to consider instead of splurging on ECC31.


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Hey all.. just thought I should check back in for my findings on my Tung Sol 7236. I won an auction for a pair at only ~31 USD. I must say that I enjoy these with the EL3N as drivers over the 6 pack EL3N so far. The bass is really nice and 'tight' and overall a joy to listen to. From description, I never thought I'd like "tight" bass, but it turns out I like it quite a bit. It seems with the EL3N there are some hum issues. I tried burning them in for about ~80 hours now, sometimes with music, sometimes without. I'm going to have to check them out later though, as I'm really enjoying these 7236 right now. I think my next stop will be to check out the 6AS7G, 6520, and 5998's. Really excited. Thanks again for all the recommendations folks.


 
 You are going down the road I more or less went down two weeks ago. I won't spoil the fun by giving you ALL my impressions, save to say my T-S 7236 did not come out top.
  
 I found it quite claustrophobic as far as the sound-stage was concerned and although it's sound was good at low volume as soon as I increased the volume there was a hardening and brittle/steeliness in the upper-mids. Quite unpleasant on female vocals and piano in fact.
  
 I may have a bad pair and it's only my personal opinion of course. Also they are noisy-not in a hummy way but in a clangy way as the heaters are warming up. 
  
 I know many tubes make a bit of noise for a few minutes as they warm up after switching on -but these go on and on for maybe an hour clanging and tinkling away. 
  
 Enjoy your rolling-I'm looking forward to your impressions of the other tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> I have done a bit search regarding GEC 6AS7G variants.
> 
> Got one question:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah, louisx...you beat me to it - the moment I saw "email for prices" I suspected the worst LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stocks worldwide are indeed _very_ rare...and those who do hold some _know_ it only too well, alas!
  
 Great luck - and infinite patience! - is indeed  paramount in stumbling across some 'sleepers'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The higher priced pair are also probably thus because they are the brown, curved-bottom base version...which are _supposed_ to be even better than the straight-sided base ones, but this would appear to be _very_ open to question!! I do in fact have one of these - the NOS Haltron labelled Osram 'sleeper' I managed to snatch for £60 on ebay, and when partnered with a straight-base GEC CV2523 I notice no difference whatsoever. Whether _*two*_ curved-bottoms would be different, I don't know (but very much doubt!)...and I don't ever see myself being so lucky as to find another one for that money, alas...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And yes, the "epic" tubes are sadly beyond most pockets...unless _extremely_ lucky!..but _keep looking!!_


----------



## louisxiawei

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, louisx...you beat me to it - the moment I saw "email for prices" I suspected the worst LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey hypnos1,
  
 But I just can't help wanting a GEC 6AS7G in my pocket and you are correct, the £100 difference is for the curved-bottom. Quoting ebay sellers' word "The price difference is because the round based MOV tubes are more desireable", which made me laugh a bit for this reason.
  
I do find some used GEC 6AS7G which is at reasonable price (about £120 per each) from some chinese dealer while the claimed new one cost £160. Guess I will grab a pair once I'm going back to Shanghai for chinese new year early next year. 
  
 https://2.taobao.com/item.htm?id=522123123300&spm=a230r.1.14.15.ehP9oO&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.10.ehP9oO&id=535620771566&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
  
 Moreover, I find there is another UK made 6AS7G called *Teonex 6AS7G*. Searched this key word in this tread, no one has ever mentioned. Want you experts to check it whether it is reliable.
  
 https://2.taobao.com/item.htm?id=531829792366&spm=a230r.1.14.23.ehP9oO&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
  
 Hope you have a nice weekend!


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Hey hypnos1,
> 
> But I just can't help wanting a GEC 6AS7G in my pocket and you are correct, the £100 difference is for the curved-bottom. Quoting ebay sellers' word "The price difference is because the round based MOV tubes are more desireable", which made me laugh a bit for this reason.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Teonex didn't make valves, they re-branded other manufacturers' products, especially more recently from Russia and Japan.
  
 Unless you are familiar with the internal structures of different manufacturers' valves you can't be sure of their provenance.
  
 I would personally say the same about any tube purporting to be made by GEC which didn't have any indication on it that it was a genuine product.


----------



## Oskari

louisxiawei said:


> Moreover, I find there is another UK made 6AS7G called *Teonex 6AS7G*. Searched this key word in this tread, no one has ever mentioned. Want you experts to check it whether it is reliable.
> 
> https://2.taobao.com/item.htm?id=531829792366&spm=a230r.1.14.23.ehP9oO&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail




Please fix the link.


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> Hey hypnos1,
> 
> But I just can't help wanting a GEC 6AS7G in my pocket and you are correct, the £100 difference is for the curved-bottom. Quoting ebay sellers' word "The price difference is because the round based MOV tubes are more desireable", which made me laugh a bit for this reason.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi louisx.
  
 Can't get any joy from your links to China I'm afraid...can you take some snapshots and details of the items and post them here?
  
 And from what H13 says, those Teonex could very possibly be the misleading Russian "rebrands" (downright _frauds_, I call them!), so would love to see a picture of these especially, if you can get one...
  
 Wishing you a happy weekend also...


----------



## louisxiawei

oskari said:


> Please fix the link.


 
 Sorry for the bad link, looks like our "the great firewall" selectively ban your access to it. But here is the pictures for the new *Teonex 6AS7G. *
  
 I just find out that this seller is quite confusing me, he is uploading the Teonex 6AS7G pictures to the prodcut of GEC Teonex.  Is Teonex 6AS7G the same thing as GEC 6AS7G?


----------



## louisxiawei

Here are some pictures of a pair of used GEC 6AS7G that I may want to buy. What do you guys think? Genuine? Or still can't tell needs more detail? 
  
 .


----------



## UntilThen

Looks genuine to me.


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> Looks genuine to me.


 
 Thanks UntilThen, but you mean genuine from which set of pictures? The pictures of GEC or Tonenex? I have a feeling they are the same thing with different branded name. 
  
 If it's genuine, I will buy them once I'm back, it's a steal costing £250 for a pair of used one.


----------



## lukeap69

louisxiawei said:


> Sorry for the bad link, looks like our "the great firewall" selectively ban your access to it. But here is the pictures for the new *Teonex 6AS7G. *
> 
> I just find out that this seller is quite confusing me, he is uploading the Teonex 6AS7G pictures to the prodcut of GEC Teonex.  Is Teonex 6AS7G the same thing as GEC 6AS7G?


 
 How much are  these going for?


----------



## Oskari

louisxiawei said:


> I just find out that this seller is quite confusing me, he is uploading the Teonex 6AS7G pictures to the prodcut of GEC Teonex.  Is Teonex 6AS7G the same thing as GEC 6AS7G?




In this case it seems to be.


----------



## UntilThen

The GEC for sure but the Teonex looks like the real deal too looking at the bottom getter.


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> How much are  these going for?


 
 1649 chinese yen each. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 eh it's yuan.
  
 Sorry for a pair. Which equates to US$247. The Teonex...


----------



## louisxiawei

oskari said:


> In this case it seems to be.


 
 Currency at the moment: Chinese yuan to GBP, which is approximately £190. This is the brand new unused one. I'm more willing to pay around £250 for the used one pair of GEC labelled 6AS7Gs. They still look like new. £250 for 2 used while £190 for 1 claimed brand new.
  
 What do you guys think?


----------



## lukeap69

untilthen said:


> 1649 chinese yen each.
> 
> eh it's yuan.
> 
> Sorry for a pair. Which equates to US$247. The Teonex...




Thanks UT? Good price?


----------



## UntilThen

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks UT? Good price?


 
 If they are genuine yeah definitely good price. US$247 for a pair of A1834.
  
 Louis should buy both the GEC and Teonex. If they sound the same, he can sell off one pair.


----------



## Oskari

Confused. Prices each or pair?

I wouldn't pay £30 (let alone £60) for a GEC sticker…


----------



## louisxiawei

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks UT? Good price?


 
 Nah! UT is wrong, US$247 is not for a pair but just for single one 6AS7G, the description is clear enough in Chinese and I do can read .


----------



## louisxiawei

oskari said:


> Confused. Prices each or pair?
> 
> I wouldn't pay £30 (let alone £60) for a GEC sticker…


 
 The Tonenex, the price is for *single one*.
  
 For the pictures I  uploaded with GEC labelled, it is used one and costing 2500 chinese yuan which is around £287 for *a pair*. 
  
 £190 for single one new Tonenex 6AS7G
 £250 for a pair of used GEC 6AS7G. 
  
 Hope this time is clear enough.


----------



## UntilThen

You did say it's for a pair in post #12833 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 US$247 for single is market price. There are some from India going for 200 and 250 each.


----------



## Oskari

louisxiawei said:


> The Tonenex, the price is for *single one*.
> 
> For the pictures I  uploaded with GEC labelled, it is used one and costing 2500 chinese yuan which is around £287 for *a pair*.
> 
> ...




OK, makes more sense.


----------



## UntilThen

This looks the perfect specimen from Langrex at GBP 500 a pair.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834-GEC-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC40-/262581613881?hash=item3d23157539:g:2DoAAOSwdzVXtChL
  
 Louis I reckon you should just buy the used GEC pair at GBP 250 if you really want those power tubes.


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> This looks the perfect specimen from Langrex at GBP 500 a pair.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834-GEC-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC40-/262581613881?hash=item3d23157539:g:2DoAAOSwdzVXtChL
> 
> Louis I reckon you should just buy the used GEC pair at GBP 250 if you really want those power tubes.


 
 Haha, contacted them already. Too expensive for me. Langrex also has a flat bottom version of GEC 6AS7G cost £400. The curved bottom cost £100 more .
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi
  
 I think this langrex is actually having some connection to the  Billington Export Ltd since Langrex location is Billingshurst, West Sussex.
  
 I will contact the chinese seller soon after the weekend. Thanks for the suggestion! Wish me luck


----------



## Oskari

louisxiawei said:


> I think this langrex is actually having some connection to the  Billington Export Ltd since Langrex location is Billingshurst, West Sussex.




They are both in Billingshurst, as is Colomor…


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> They are both in Billingshurst, as is Colomor…


 
 Indeed, Billinghurst seems full of tube sellers, quite odd if they are not connected in some way considering it's only a village with a population of 7000.
  
 I should visit there-or maybe relocate and live there.


----------



## Oskari

It's a conspiracy! I'm sure it is! :eek:  :rolleyes:


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> The Tonenex, the price is for *single one*.
> 
> For the pictures I  uploaded with GEC labelled, it is used one and costing 2500 chinese yuan which is around £287 for *a pair*.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi louisx....I turn my back and WOW!...I end up being the last to "put my oar in"!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, as folks have already said, they are indeed ALL genuine GEC tubes...and all the "best of the best", ie with the curved-bottom base...EXCEPT your pic of the 3 in a row of course, where only the middle one is. Your photo of the pair with the GEC stickers looks gorgeous...they don't look like they've had much use, but you MUST get confirmation they test OK...preferably with some indication of strength/hours' use etc. If it appears only slight use, I would definitely go for those, funds permitting...GOOD LUCK!!


----------



## UntilThen

When you're done buying the GEC 6as7g you should get onto this. post #12770
  
 It's one of the defining sonic signatures from Elise.


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> When you're done buying the GEC 6as7g you should get onto this. post #12770
> 
> It's one of the defining sonic signatures from Elise.


 
 Thanks but quite confused which one you are suggesting:
  
 6BL7 + dual 6J5 per channel (Christmas tree setup)?  or the setup from the picture? I can't tell the driver and power tube model from the pictures as beinga noob here. Can you please be more specific?
  
 Or maybe @HOWIE13 can help me out.


----------



## UntilThen

This - C3G and 5998


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> This - C3G and 5998


 
 Cheers. But tbh I don't really want to go for the sonic signature too much as my T1 headphone is already sonic enough. Will try though.
  
post #12260 is the craziest setup I've ever seen. 
  
 From the aesthetic aspect, I won't do any Christmas tree set-up myself, It just looks so nerdy and mental no matter how good the sound is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Trying to be minimalism yet sounds good.


----------



## richard89

untilthen said:


> You're an astute buyer now Richard. Glad you like the 7236. You'll be exposed to more variations with other power and driver tubes.
> 
> You're going to love them all just like I do.


 
 I was really happy to find a pair of 7236's for only 31 USD. It's really fun and interesting to discover these combos. I've been very surprised and pleased with what I have so far. Just waiting for from 6520's, 6AS7G's, or 5998's to go on eBay now. I'm a little hesitant about the 5998, they are so expensive!


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> I was really happy to find a pair of 7236's for only 31 USD. It's really fun and interesting to discover these combos. I've been very surprised and pleased with what I have so far. Just waiting for from 6520's, 6AS7G's, or 5998's to go on eBay now. I'm a little hesitant about the 5998, they are so expensive!


 
  
 They are expensive but if you can be patient (unlike me) I'm sure a pair will surface for you to buy.
  
 I wasn't patient but they are definitely worth the money to my ears.  Amazing, as they do everything right for me.
  
 I actually prefer in general the 6080 to 7236 but I'm keen to know how you find them. Some people really like the 7236.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Cheers. But tbh I don't really want to go for the sonic signature too much as my T1 headphone is already sonic enough. Will try though.
> 
> post #12260 is the craziest setup I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well I go for extremes in looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Actually, the Christmas tree and 5998's, both with C3g or EL3N's as powers, sound very similar, big engaging sound-stage with great detail and imaging. The two different drivers of course impart different  flavours to the sound.
  
 Possibly the Christmas tree has the slightly bigger sound stage and the 5998 a trifle more inner detail but I wouldn't notice unless A/Bing,(that doesn't look right, but you know what I mean)
  
 That's the thing about Elise, almost all tubes sound so very good and there are so many combos for you to enjoy, and for those who don't care about rolling, the stock tubes are good anyway.
  
 If you want to go really minimalist then try 6DJ8's as drivers. Elise makes them sound like I've never heard them before.
  
 Here's a minimalist pic just to prove I'm not a nerdy, mental crazy obsessed with trees.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  

  
 5998 + Mullard ECC88 (Blackburn, 1963)- in reality the 5998's are identical in dimensions.


----------



## Oskari

If anybody's missing the 6SN7 and 6AS7G threads, somebody's moved them to the Cables etc. forum.

Not a high level of consistency…


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> Cheers. But tbh I don't really want to go for the sonic signature too much as my T1 headphone is already sonic enough. Will try though.
> 
> post #12260 is the craziest setup I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah..."neat and sweet" is certainly _my_ motto also! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...And if you do manage to get those GECs (could certainly save you a hefty rob from Customs if you pick them up in China, lol!), I think I can safely say you will probably find no need or desire whatsoever to change Elise for anything else...perhaps better to upgrade other parts of the system - if necessary! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(doubt you'd need to change those T1s though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). Good times ahead, mon ami...


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> It's a conspiracy! I'm sure it is!


 
  
 Surely, O, you realise that without conspiracies the World would have come to a halt a _long_ while ago, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but would certainly have been a better place, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


oskari said:


> If anybody's missing the 6SN7 and 6AS7G threads, somebody's moved them to the Cables etc. forum.
> 
> Not a high level of consistency…


 
  
 Presumably complaints from non-6SN7/6AS7G amp owners LOL!!!...these threads have indeed been _extremely_ useful for a lot of people - hopefully at least the 'moved' messages will remain permanent. A dedicated "tube" thread I'm sure would also have been very useful...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(actually, come to think of it, such a thread would possibly have proved invaluable in "cross-fertilisation" between many different amps, providing folks with different possible avenues to follow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ah well...).


----------



## Oskari

The 6BL7 thread is still here. The rectifier thread is still here. Other tube threads are still here. That 6922 thread is in Computer Audio. :confused_face_2:

Consistent, eh?


----------



## richard89

howie13 said:


> They are expensive but if you can be patient (unlike me) I'm sure a pair will surface for you to buy.
> 
> I wasn't patient but they are definitely worth the money to my ears.  Amazing, as they do everything right for me.
> 
> I actually prefer in general the 6080 to 7236 but I'm keen to know how you find them. Some people really like the 7236.


 
 Hey Howie which brand of the 6080 do you have? Should I get the Tung Sol 6080 or the Mullard 6080?


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> The 6BL7 thread is still here. The rectifier thread is still here. Other tube threads are still here. That 6922 thread is in Computer Audio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm...strange indeed..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...???...


----------



## louisxiawei

hypnos1 said:


> Yeah..."neat and sweet" is certainly _my_ motto also!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks hypnos1. Looks like we have something in common aesthetically.
  
 Just feed you an interesting story. I talked to the seller of used GEC 6AS7G, during the chat, out of curiosity, I asked him why selling the nearly perfect condition GEC 6AS7G,  quit playing tube amplifier or you even have a better upgrade?
  
 And turn out to be, he got an "upgrade" from it - a Western Electric 421A from 1950s (so the number on the valve ends in 3 digits not 4) and this pair of tubes costing him £1000. Crazy!!!!! 
  
 Any suggestion @hypnos1  for the driver tube matched with my GEC 6AS7G after I get it from him? Again, looking for the best of the best, matching with GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Hey Howie which brand of the 6080 do you have? Should I get the Tung Sol 6080 or the Mullard 6080?


 
  
 Well my favourite is the Tung-Sol as it has the best balance for my ears. Mullards are very good too. The ones I like are the military version CV2984. They have an equally capacious sound stage, a bit cooler and cleaner than the T-S, occasionally a bit too much so for certain music, for other tracks it's great. I did try the non-military ones, just the plain Mullard 6080, but they were very microphonic and couldn't properly assess their sound. Maybe someone else could advise on these.
  
 I've also used Raytheon, very fast and clear but occasionally a little too much at the top, Bear in mind I'm using K702 and HD600 cans. They will sound warmer with some other headphones. 
  
 Others I've used are Philips and GE which are both very good all rounders.
  
 One I could not recommend is Thomson, which for me was too thin and shrill.
  
 I think 6080 is a tube type well worth exploring as a power tube in Elise. I find them generally sweet, clean and clear rather than lush and they have a big sound stage. - oh and I've had no hum issues with any of them either.


----------



## richard89

howie13 said:


> Well my favourite is the Tung-Sol as it has the best balance for my ears. Mullards are very good too. The ones I like are the military version CV2984. They have an equally capacious sound stage, a bit cooler and cleaner than the T-S, occasionally a bit too much so for certain music, for other tracks it's great. I did try the non-military ones, just the plain Mullard 6080, but they were very microphonic and couldn't properly assess their sound. Maybe someone else could advise on these.
> 
> I've also used Raytheon, very fast and clear but occasionally a little too much at the top, Bear in mind I'm using K702 and HD600 cans. They will sound warmer with some other headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Howie I think I just made a mistake, I pulled the trigger on two 6080WA's for 50 USD shipped. The problem is one is Tung Sol and one is Chatham. Would this still sound good with the amp? Is two of the same best or ideal? Thanks


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Howie I think I just made a mistake, I pulled the trigger on two 6080WA's. The problem is one is Tung Sol and one is Chatham. Would this still sound good with the amp? Is two of the same better? Thanks


 
  
 Chatham was a division of Tung-Sol and I believe their tubes were similar so should be fine.


----------



## richard89

Thank to you sir. Sorry for the barrage of questions, but is the 6080 and 6080WA similar? I had the option for getting two NOS Tung Sol 6080 for 68 USD shipped but I kind of pulled the trigger a little too quickly and offered 38 dollars with 11 dollars shipping for my order of the 6080WAs.


----------



## hypnos1

louisxiawei said:


> Thanks hypnos1. Looks like we have something in common aesthetically.
> 
> Just feed you an interesting story. I talked to the seller of used GEC 6AS7G, during the chat, out of curiosity, I asked him why selling the nearly perfect condition GEC 6AS7G,  quit playing tube amplifier or you even have a better upgrade?
> 
> ...


 
  
 £1000?...crazy indeed! - especially as there as those who say the WE 421A is in fact 'just' a specially-selected 5998, in the same way the C3g'S' _seems_ to be a C3g that measures with higher than usual transconductance, but otherwise identical LOL!
  
 As for drivers for the GECs, this is not a straightforward one, alas - will give you my own summary tomorrow, when I have more time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...If you want a more detailed blow-by-blow progression of my findings, you might want to trawl(!) through my past posts...if you ever manage to find the time, lol!


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Thank to you sir. Sorry for the barrage of questions, but is the 6080 and 6080WA similar? I had the option for getting two NOS Tung Sol 6080 for 68 USD shipped but I kind of pulled the trigger a little too quickly and offered 38 dollars with 11 dollars shipping for my order of the 6080WAs.


 
 I really don't know. I think the W may be a military version to last longer, maybe. You may find the answers by searching the web, but it could take time.
  
 I doubt very much if it will make much difference- but if it does it may sound even better than the standard 6080.
  
 To be honest I think many of us were in uncharted territory with some of these tubes but given Elise's ability to make almost all tubes sound so very good, I wouldn't worry if I were you.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @louisxiawei...here we go - will try to summarise many months of ear-bashing and lost sleep, lol!...with the usual caveat : _my_ gear/ears/preferences etc., and apologies to others for repetition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  
 I personally preferred all of the following to any of the 6SN7/7N7 I tried - some of them top-tier (but they all sounded great nonetheless).
  
 First came the Siemens C3g'S'...fabulous sound; amazing clarity, detail, energy and sparkle. Did wonders for the Senn HD650s, but for my ears and the T1s just a tad _too_ much treble on recordings with emphasis at the top end...tragic for me as these tubes were the love of my life since introducing them to the LittleDot amps, but love the T1s even more!! The Lorenz C3g is a bit smoother up top, and of course that treble will also depend on the rest of the system...eg. my Sabre DACs need careful matching in this area.
  
 Then came the Mullard ECC31...extremely good tube and a very good match for the GECs. Better bass and mids in my setup, along with a smoother treble than the C3g. In some ways not so 'exciting' (a little less forward in presentation also) but much better for long-term listening with the Beyers...and for me, a feeling of greater 'control' and evenness throughout the FR (some might say a 'polite' presentation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...mature vs youthful?!). Unfortunately, their price has rocketed recently...not surprising, given the astronomical prices for the basically same ECC32/CV181(original), which can be more than the GEC powers even!!
  
 Then I found a very interesting tube - the FDD20, which in some ways was even better than the ECC31...excellent bass and mids; lovely extended but smooth treble, and more forward presentation. A truly exciting tube, at a VERY good price indeed. However, this tube needs a 12V heater power supply, which brought problems for some regarding grounding to avoid bad hum. And unfortunately I personally found the forward presentation just a bit too much "in your face". I managed to ease this a little by in fact mixing an FDD20 with an ECC31 (the "20/31"), which became my personal favourite until @UntilThen saw this lovely red-banded Philips EL3N tube and hinted I should see if I could get it to work in the Elise...I did, but then set in motion a good bit of divided opinion....to say the least lol!
 The slight difference in the 20/31 soundstages may also _just_ be noticeable to _some_, and possibly be offputting alas....
  
 And so for the EL3N...this tube is most certainly a bit of a conundrum! More so than any others we have all tried, this one seems to depend a great deal on associated gear...not to mention personal preference. My initial reaction was WOW!...unlike anything I'd heard before. Bass and mids - in both weight and detail - surpassed even the 20/31 combo (which I couldn't believe) - with sweet treble, expansive soundstage and a "musicality" I also hadn't experienced to such a degree before. On further listening however, I was finding it all a bit _too_ overwhelming - a bit "too good to be true" LOL!...a touch of startling difference clouding judgment sort of thing? Luckily, by now I realise you must _never_ go entirely by early impressions with tubes...they can, and often do of course, change quite dramatically with further burn-in.
 And so did my EL3Ns...bass and mids developed better control, detail and less dominance. There was much more even distribution throughout the frequency range. Treble came through in extension and detail, until an exquisite balance and cohesion continued to develop...even more so as the hours passed the 100 mark. I, and others, have found these tubes really do need extended use to fully shine...well beyond the 200 mark even!
 Once again, I believe my own particular experience of them has been helped by my Sabre DAC and T1s...but others have also been impressed using different gear. HOWEVER, not everyone has had the same results...mostly, I suspect, down to different gear interaction, and some who perhaps then find them too 'warm', for example. I found this aspect certainly does ease off with much longer than usual burn-in. But this does appear to be a tube that you can only really accurately judge for yourself, within your own system...
 These tubes, I believe, can deliver tremendous results and are especially good value-for-money, being far cheaper than the ECC31 for example...not to mention many of the top-tier 6SN7s.
  
 Now, just as I thought the EL3N was my end-game driver for the GECs, my new tube DAC (also based on the ESS Sabre chip) has changed things once more...it prefers the ECC31s!! - somehow coaxing even more magic from them than I ever thought possible...a synthesis of all my favourite tubes, in fact! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, with just that bit more effortless precision and cohesion across the entire board, and a soundstage that is just right *for me*...not _too_ wide, with pin-point imaging/positioning, good separation and 'air'. I thank the Gods I managed to get my 31s a while back before prices went really mad! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. In a way, my tube DAC has a lot to answer for...was very happy before with my setup, but curiosity got the better of me...and...!!! However, as I got such a good price on the DAC - and on appro! - I have no regrets whatsoever...fuelled by the same sort of feeling as yours for the GECs, no doubt! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 All these tubes need adapters, of course, and are available from xulingmrs on ebay...unless you pick them up in person, some time!!
  
 Hope this gives you some idea at least of what's about...there are others of course, but this is just my own take on things...as they perform with my own GECs and rest of gear...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## pctazhp

WOW @hypnos1. That post is a compilation of the monumental efforts you have made and contributed to us - both here on the Elise threads and earlier on the Little Dot threads. I met you back in the LD days when I was looking for adapters for the C3Gs and the rest is history )))
  
 For me I seem to keep returning to the EL3N for my driver. Unfortunately I have been priced out of the market for ECC31s ((
  
 Thanks so much for all you have taught me. I'm sure I'm far from the only one who is grateful.


----------



## UntilThen

A good write-up @hypnos1. I reckon you should pin this. I can relate to all that has been written about those drivers as I have been very intimate with them. I like them all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sure, they range from one extreme from the C3G to the EL3N in terms of sound signature but I find all of them very interesting paired with various power tubes, namely TS 5998, Chatham 6AS7G, TS 7236, Mullard 6080. 
  
 I'm also particularly fond of the Mazda, Visseaux and Fivre 6N7G and their 6A6 equivalent. These are a touch lighter in tone and brighter than the ECC31.
  
 Much as I love the FDD20 at one stage, I hardly use them anymore. It's just too cumbersome pulling out the 12V external power supply. 
  
 So yeah these drivers - C3G, ECC31, european 6N7G, FDD20, EL3N are certainly special. I kind of really like the C3G now. It's come a full circle for me.


----------



## UntilThen

2 Elise threads. I'm a bit confused. Sometimes I don't remember where I'm at. So don't boot me if I post my Christmas tree but mine's a genuine Christmas tree because there's 6 and they are RED. !!!


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## Oskari

untilthen said:


> 2 Elise threads. I'm a bit confused. Sometimes I don't remember where I'm at. So don't boot me if I post my Christmas tree but mine's a genuine Christmas tree because there's 6 and they are RED. !!!




It's the other thread where you'll soon get a clubbing.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks guys...it has indeed been a long, tortuous (or should that be tortu*R*ous! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) road LOL!...but great fun and very informative, and in great company...
  
 As both of you mention, @pctazhp and @UntilThen, we can indeed find ourselves going round in circles with Elise...it's as if she keeps wanting to tease us and test us - into submission sometimes, I feel!! Either that or our ears - not to mention entire heads! - vary in state on a regular basis...which of course they do, with or without the influence of certain chemicals! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. I'm also fast coming to  confirmation that the more _different_ signals keep going through electronic circuits (incl.wires/tubes) the broader is the frequency range said circuits can handle, over and above the "burn-in" principle (plus other aspects of electron-handling)...hence surprises sometimes when revisiting certain tubes especially, IMHO...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I'm quite sure SS doesn't give quite this same degree of 'wonder' - or is that 'bemusement/confusion/frustration', lol?!! Whatever, I wouldn't have missed it for the world...I hope y'all have enjoyed it - or have yet to - half as much as I have, and still am...HAPPY LISTENING!...


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> It's the other thread where you'll soon get a clubbing.


 
 Maybe Christmas trees will take root even there before too long!


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Maybe Christmas trees will take root even there before too long!


 

*NO...WAY...JOSE!!! *


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> *NO...WAY...JOSE!!! *


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for all your work and time @hypnos1that you have done. Very informative, I would say accurate as well, but then you would have to assume I knew what I was talking about. I have gone back to the 6 pack EL3N's and they are probably past the 100 hour mark and I have seen the tubes really improve since then. @UntilThen  I sometimes forget which forum I am on as well, of course sometimes I forget WHERE I am at, so it is all good. This thread and the other Elise thread are a wealth of information, and the members are all as helpful as any I have seen over my many years of internet use (and for those old enough, BBC before the net!), wanted to thank you all for your help and really appreciate the feeling of comradeship for want of a better term.


----------



## mordy

Hope I am on the right thread - running 20/31 plus dual power tubes TS 6SN7GTB reissues/ TS 6BL7GT. Compared to the 7236 as power tubes the bass is harder hitting and the overall sound slightly less sweet, but overall excellent. Different flavors....
  
 Interesting observation that revisiting old tubes on the Elise can revise your opinions about them - I have the same experience. Perhaps the Elise is aging like good wine?
  
  
  




  
 Thanks to the efforts of Gibosi and Oskari I found out that my Mullard ECC31 was made for the British Air Force somewhere between 1942 and 1945.


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> It's the other thread where you'll soon get a clubbing.


 
 We try to administer our torture there in a humane way


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hope I am on the right thread - running 20/31 plus dual power tubes TS 6SN7GTB reissues/ TS 6BL7GT. Compared to the 7236 as power tubes the bass is harder hitting and the overall sound slightly less sweet, but overall excellent.* Different flavors....*
> 
> Interesting observation that revisiting old tubes on the Elise can revise your opinions about them - I have the same experience. Perhaps the Elise is aging like *good wine*?


 
 Elise is like a giant ice cream and wine tasting shoppe


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> Maybe Christmas trees will take root even there before too long!


 
 We spray weed killer there daily to prevent growth of Christmas Trees


----------



## UntilThen

I've been clubbing everyday since I've Elise.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> I've been clubbing everyday since I've Elise. :bigsmile_face:




No wonder you're a bit confused.


----------



## DecentLevi

Some 'time warped' replies here
  
 Quote:


louisxiawei said:


> Thanks man. I hope I can handle the sonic assualt from Elise. Using SS amp at the moment like Lehamnn linear and Beyerdynamic A20, the sonic assault from them is 24/7 for me. I usually listen to my T1 no more than 3 hours before feeling fatigue on my ears. So eventually, I go for the the tube amp. I think it's one of my best decision so far.
> 
> I'm also more a bit computer audiophile, a while ago, I spent a lot on USB chain optimisation for the purpose of tuning my T1 more musical and more lush sound. (Like Uptone regen, Intona, Curious USB cable, Sbooster Linear PSU), which the total investment is more than one and a half cost of Elise. If let me go back that time again, I think I will put Elise as priority investment.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like you're on the right path. I also upgraded my cables early last year including pro-quality RCA and USB cables. I've also been using Wyrd from Schiit Audio - after several A/B comparisons I found it really is cleaning up the data feed coming into my DAC for an overall more refined sound, and I've stood by it for a long time.
  
 Anybody on the fence about "USB cleaners", I definitely recommend it to optimize the signal coming into your DAC. Almost everybody who has tried them saw a positive result, and they're only around $100 or more depending on the brand you choose. Gustard U10 is another one. Speaking of signal enhancement, Louis I recommend also trying the "upsampling" effect, you can read more here.
  


howie13 said:


> You are going down the road I more or less went down two weeks ago. I won't spoil the fun by giving you ALL my impressions, save to say my T-S 7236 did not come out top.
> 
> I found it quite claustrophobic as far as the sound-stage was concerned and although it's sound was good at low volume as soon as I increased the volume there was a hardening and brittle/steeliness in the upper-mids. Quite unpleasant on female vocals and piano in fact.
> 
> ...


 
 My EL3N's also exhibit the side effect of clanging and tinkling on warm up & power down, and can even be heard cooling down without headphones. Not a major issue though, and I can't hear it with music playing.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Sounds like you're on the right path. I also upgraded my cables early last year including pro-quality RCA and USB cables. I've also been using Wyrd from Schiit Audio - after several A/B comparisons I found it really is cleaning up the data feed coming into my DAC for an overall more refined sound, and I've stood by it for a long time.
> 
> Anybody on the fence about "USB cleaners", I definitely recommend it to optimize the signal coming into your DAC. Almost everybody who has tried them saw a positive result, and they're only around $100 or more depending on the brand you choose. Gustard U10 is another one. Speaking of signal enhancement, Louis I recommend also trying the "upsampling" effect, you can read more here.
> 
> My EL3N's also exhibit the side effect of clanging and tinkling on warm up & power down, and can even be heard cooling down without headphones. Not a major issue though, and I can't hear it with music playing.


 
  
 Yes that's how it is with a number of my tubes, just a few minutes of noise on powering up, thereafter silence-but those 7236's are something else.
  
 I probably have a bad pair and will get new ones.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 The TS 6SN7GTB with the brown base that I have are the Russian re-issue that came with my amp, so they are not the NOS TS tubes.
  
 Re the 6BL7 tubes, it gets quite confusing, because some Tung Sol tubes are marked Tung Sol but have the tell tale GE sand blasted white dots on the glass. Could be that even those tubes labeled Tung Sol without the GE dots were made by GE. In any case, I would say that the TS/GE 6BL7 tubes sound pretty much the same and re driver/power tubes I would not go out of my way to get an all Tung Sol set-up.
  
 Re headphones, do you have any recommendation for an inexpensive pair that sounds very good? I have a pair of Yamaha MT-220 that are pretty good - paid $135 for them (fictitious list price $399, street price $249 - got them when they were being phased out).
  
 For earbuds I have a good recommendation - the Venture Electronics Monk for $8 shipped. These are amazing for the price (ask pct).


----------



## DecentLevi

I just ordered the RHA S500 earphones and they will be delivered tomorrow. I tried them from another member at the SF meet last month and they sounded OK for a cheap earphone: linear, punchy and sweet. I didn't go with the Monks because I prefer more isolation.
  
 You're so lucky to have asked me about other headphones in that price range. I'm assuming you meant closed headphones, which these all are: My friend Lyova of Tru-Fi speakers will visit me on Tuesday for feedback on three new prototype headphones he's working on: unique new concept modded versions of DT-770, DT-1770 and SoundMagic HP-150. The last one is already ready to order and sounds great on the Elise (listening to it as I type). The link for this one is in my signature.


----------



## louisxiawei

decentlevi said:


> Sounds like you're on the right path. I also upgraded my cables early last year including pro-quality RCA and USB cables. I've also been using Wyrd from Schiit Audio - after several A/B comparisons I found it really is cleaning up the data feed coming into my DAC for an overall more refined sound, and I've stood by it for a long time.
> 
> Anybody on the fence about "USB cleaners", I definitely recommend it to optimize the signal coming into your DAC. Almost everybody who has tried them saw a positive result, and they're only around $100 or more depending on the brand you choose. Gustard U10 is another one. Speaking of signal enhancement, Louis I recommend also trying the "upsampling" effect, you can read more here.


 
 Hey DecentLevi,
  
 Thanks for the reply. I'm using Roon connected with Tidal. My current dac is ARCAM irDAC. Don't think my DAC is high-end enough to have a upsampling control itself nor the Roon can change it as well (unless you know the approach). However, I do find that even by changing the buffer size and USB streaming mode will alter the sound significantly. From the most detail but analytical sound with pops (minimum latency) to the most blur but relaxed sound (extra safe). 
  
 I will totally believe what you just said regarding upsampling. Shame that windows 10 supports only to 24 bit/ 192khz.
  
 I'm going to invest a mytek brooklyn DAC in the near future to replace my irDAC, will try your method then. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Looked up the sound magic HP-150. While it gets good reviews and is relatively inexpensive, there are multitudes of serious complaints of very poor build quality with the headphones breaking with very little use.


----------



## DecentLevi

Those are old reports from a few lone wolfs, while the overwhelming majority have never had any such problems with their HP-100 and 150's - including mine which I've had for almost 2 years and been through a lot without any such problems. Anyway this Tuesday I will be testing several other closed headphone mod prototypes that are said to be far superior. I will test these on the Elise and send you some basic impressions by PM, unless if anyone else here also wants to read about these?
  
 He also has a closed T1 in a T5 body with unique internal reworking


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> My EL3N's also exhibit the side effect of clanging and tinkling on warm up & power down, and can even be heard cooling down without headphones. Not a major issue though, and I can't hear it with music playing.


 
 EL3N when new does that. I've just pop in a new pair of EL3N in the power slots and they go clanking and tingling and groaning but all is well with burn in. Which tube wouldn't do that if all they do is light up for you.  
  
 Even my NOS Tung Sol 5998 does that.
  
 Those of you who have unfavorable impressions of EL3N, have simply not given those tubes the proper burn in. FYI, my 7236 sounded like metal - perfect for metallic - when I first heard it. After burn in, it just sound amazing. Tight, controlled bass.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> EL3N when new does that. I've just pop in a new pair of EL3N in the power slots and they go clanking and tingling and groaning but all is well with burn in. Which tube wouldn't do that if all they do is light up for you.
> 
> Even my NOS Tung Sol 5998 does that.
> 
> Those of you who have unfavorable impressions of EL3N, have simply not given those tubes the proper burn in. FYI, my 7236 sounded like metal - perfect for metallic - when I first heard it. After burn in, it just sound amazing. Tight, controlled bass.


 
  
 That's interesting. Maybe I should burn in my 7236's before buying new ones-that's exactly how they sound- metallic.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> Looked up the sound magic HP-150. While it gets good reviews and is relatively inexpensive, there are multitudes of serious complaints of very poor build quality with the headphones breaking with very little use.


 
 I bought an early HP100 and it gave up in the right channel after 3 weeks.
 I'm so glad I chose a replacement rather than a refund from Amazon. The replacement has been fine and heavily used.
 I even bought a spare for the ridiculous price of £90 on eBay as they are probably my favourite closed can (even unmodded!).


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hope I am on the right thread - running 20/31 plus dual power tubes TS 6SN7GTB reissues/ TS 6BL7GT. Compared to the 7236 as power tubes the bass is harder hitting and the overall sound slightly less sweet, but overall excellent. Different flavors....
> 
> Interesting observation that revisiting old tubes on the Elise can revise your opinions about them - I have the same experience. Perhaps the Elise is aging like good wine?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy.
  
 Yeah, that ECC31 of yours sure does look quite a bit different to all the other Mullards out there...but thankfully sounded exactly the same as the usually smaller ones when I tested them...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Glad you've had the same experience when revisiting past tubes, and although relying on memory for such things can be a bit _un_reliable (to say the least!), I'm certain there's a good bit more going on here than is generally realised - some really interesting science that warrants further research no doubt...(probably is already out there, among some obscure scientific journals! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So, IMO, the motto must be :
  
 1. Play as wide a variety of _music _as possible, at safely high volume levels.
 2. Use as wide a variety of _tubes_ as possible.
 3. Both of the above for as _long_ as possible.
  
 Then, I suspect the principle of the "whole being greater than the sum of the parts" could well in fact be endowed upon each tube after such exhaustive "priming"...with some probably benefitting more than others of course, depending on their makeup/quality. We should also remember that tube pins and amp/adapter sockets may well need regular cleaning...especially if not gold-plated or specially treated with such as Deoxit...
  
 Anyway, these are just my own thoughts on the matter, lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Thanks for all your work and time @hypnos1that you have done. Very informative, I would say accurate as well, but then you would have to assume I knew what I was talking about. I have gone back to the 6 pack EL3N's and they are probably past the 100 hour mark and I have seen the tubes really improve since then. @UntilThen  I sometimes forget which forum I am on as well, of course sometimes I forget WHERE I am at, so it is all good. This thread and the other Elise thread are a wealth of information, and the members are all as helpful as any I have seen over my many years of internet use (and for those old enough, BBC before the net!), wanted to thank you all for your help and really appreciate the feeling of comradeship for want of a better term.


 
  
 And thx for your kind words, cf...._*of course*_ you know what you're talking about LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...everything you say is _spot on!!_








...especially the comradeship...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## mordy

Hi UT and Howie13,
  
 Second that on the 7236 - benefits greatly from burn-in and they don't need a huge amount of hours either - reckon the standard 30-50 hours.
  
 Hi DL,
  
 Looking forward to hear your impressions on new budget priced headphones. The HP150 is $130 on Amazon - is that a good price?,


----------



## connieflyer

hypnos1 said:


> And thx for your kind words, cf...._*of course*_ you know what you're talking about LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just to show off, I wrote BBC I meant BB or buletin board, back before the internet, when you used a dial up modem to call file sharing sites at extremely slow transfer.  Plus it was all Dos, so that was fun too. Nothing like typing a long string, and making one character wrong, and having to do it all over, kids today don't know what they are missing (NOT) !


----------



## richard89

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone here has tried to use the Tung Sol "6550" as powers on the Elise. I saw an ad on eBay and immediately checked at the Elise thread and saw that no one had brought it up. Is it a different kind of tube that isn't to be used as power tubes? Or has no one gotten around to trying these yet? Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> Hey guys I was wondering if anyone here has tried to use the Tung Sol "6550" as powers on the Elise. I saw an ad on eBay and immediately checked at the Elise thread and saw that no one had brought it up. Is it a different kind of tube that isn't to be used as power tubes? Or has no one gotten around to trying these yet? Thanks


 

 Don't touch those monsters unless you want to turn your Elise into a Kentucky Fried Chicken.
  
 Meanwhile how do you like my new portrait.


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## louisxiawei

Just checked a few comments regarding fuse for the Elise. Has anyone of you guys upgraded fuse for Elise? What type of fuse is for the Elise 220V? I'm considering buying a audiophile fuse from Synergistic Research. Need the correct fuse type for it though. Hope you guys can give me some advice.


----------



## richard89

Thank you UT, how are you doing this evening? I got so excited to trying new tubes that I accidentally won the auction. That's a great photo sir, what tube configurations are you using? It looks like the 6520's and the stock tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Those are not stock drivers. They are Sylvania 6SN7wgt. 
  
 I'm doing great and am enjoying my music this morning with Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

louisxiawei said:


> Just checked a few comments regarding fuse for the Elise. Has anyone of you guys upgraded fuse for Elise? What type of fuse is for the Elise 220V? I'm considering buying a audiophile fuse from Synergistic Research. Need the correct fuse type for it though. Hope you guys can give me some advice.


 

 Sorry Louis I don't believe in audiophile fuse anymore than I believe in audiophile screws.


----------



## connieflyer

Reminds me I got screwed by an audiophile once.


----------



## mordy

I once had a tube that shorted out and it activated the protective circuitry in the Elise which shut off. At that time I checked the fuse in the back of the amp (next to the A/C plug in a little drawer). It took a while for the Elise to come back to itself, but the fuse was fine.
  
 It is a tiny fuse and I cannot read the value on it - anybody knows?


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi UT and Howie13,
> 
> Second that on the 7236 - benefits greatly from burn-in and they don't need a huge amount of hours either - reckon the standard 30-50 hours.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes $130 is a steal deal for the HP-150's from SoundMagic, as they used to be twice that much. But my friend, I think you and Howie13 have both missed my point about these. The Tru-Fi mod is a must for these to really shine! It replaces the original flabby bloated bass with one that is controlled and more linear. It replaces the slightly recessed mids with one that is deliciosly lush and vivid, the treble less shrill, soundstage is better, and isolation is increased by at least two fold with the addition of Dekoni leather earpads. The difference between the original and modded SoundMagics is night and day.
  
 And tomorrow I will have the chance to audition three of his other closed prototypes that are supposed to be several notches better. But if you're interested in the Hp-150's, the link is in my signature how to order a mod kit, or send yours in for modding.


----------



## UntilThen

Price wise it's probably not a fair comparison with the HP-150 but I reckon a modded HD650 should pleased many.


----------



## DecentLevi

Like these HD 650 (and other) mods? 
 
  
link


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Yes $130 is a steal deal for the HP-150's from SoundMagic, as they used to be twice that much. But my friend, I think you and Howie13 have both missed my point about these. The Tru-Fi mod is a must for these to really shine! It replaces the original flabby bloated bass with one that is controlled and more linear. It replaces the slightly recessed mids with one that is deliciosly lush and vivid, the treble less shrill, soundstage is better, and isolation is increased by at least two fold with the addition of Dekoni leather earpads. The difference between the original and modded SoundMagics is night and day.
> 
> And tomorrow I will have the chance to audition three of his other closed prototypes that are supposed to be several notches better. But if you're interested in the Hp-150's, the link is in my signature how to order a mod kit, or send yours in for modding.


 
 Really happy with the way mine sound as they are.


----------



## Spork67

Some familiar ppl here...
 Better subscribe to this thread as well I guess.
 Ordered my Elise a couple of weeks ago and it left Poland heading to Tasmania on Friday.
 Can't wait for it to arrive - been wanting to try a tube amp and figured it was better economics to buy a good one that should last me instead of a cheap one I'd want to upgrade a month later.


----------



## UntilThen

What do you mean some familiar people here. We're the same people. Odd days we're here and even days we're over there.


----------



## hypnos1

spork67 said:


> Some familiar ppl here...
> Better subscribe to this thread as well I guess.
> *Ordered my Elise a couple of weeks ago and it left Poland heading to Tasmania on Friday.*
> Can't wait for it to arrive - been wanting to try a tube amp and figured it was better economics to buy a good one that should last me instead of a cheap one I'd want to upgrade a month later.


 
 Wow, S67...that's just got to be a record LOL...LUCKY YOU!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...and good thinking on the purchase...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> What do you mean some familiar people here. We're the same people. *Odd days we're here* and even days we're over there.


 
  
 Hey UT...sometimes I think it's _us_ who are odd, not the _days_ LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Sorry Louis I don't believe in audiophile fuse anymore than I believe in audiophile screws.




I entirely agree with UT.

However:

My Elise (230V) is an early version. The fuse reads T1.6AL250V.

It would be interesting to know whether later versions still ship with the same fuse or perhaps with something else.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> I entirely agree with UT.
> 
> However:
> 
> ...


 

 My Elise is also 230V. Is there a 220V? Too lazy to take my fuse out to have a look but when I bought my Darkvoice 336se 2nd hand, the seller told me he had to change the fuse once as it blows. He also gave me a packet of fuse. 
  
 It reads F1AL250V.
  
 So I have spares.


----------



## frederick-rea

Hello all

 I changed for one of this
  
 HIFI-Tuning
 5x20mm
 T1
 1.6A


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> My Elise is also 230V. Is there a 220V?




I'd guess that 230V equals 220V–240V.


----------



## Oskari

frederick-rea said:


> Hello all
> 
> 
> I changed for one of this
> ...




How much and where?

Please don't tell me $60 ea.


----------



## frederick-rea

from hear
 https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_pg_2?me=A15X1SC4J5588P&rh=i%3Amerchant-items&page=2&ie=UTF8&qid=1471990379
  
 250V


----------



## frederick-rea

richard89 said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > You're an astute buyer now Richard. Glad you like the 7236. You'll be exposed to more variations with other power and driver tubes.
> ...


 
 Hey all
 Now I am using Chatham 6AS7G as powers and Philips EL3N as drivers. Because these drivers are growing with time, and treble with bad records could be a little forward, I use TS7236 but I prefer as well those Mullard EEC31
  
 Important saying that DAC, as Headphones are fundamental pieces for rooling tubes
 For now I have
 using CD's: EAD transport »» EAD 7000 serie III (HDCD) » ELISE »»LCD-XC ver2
  
 I use as well Elise as a Pre (Instead of Conrad Johnson Premier Fourteen), with Conrad Johnson Premier Eleven A and Audio Phisic Virgo
 see you


----------



## Oskari

frederick-rea said:


> from hear
> https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_pg_2?me=A15X1SC4J5588P&rh=i%3Amerchant-items&page=2&ie=UTF8&qid=1471990379
> 
> 250V


 
  
 Thanks.
  
_Only_ €39 then.


----------



## UntilThen

frederick-rea said:


> Hello all
> 
> I changed for one of this
> 
> ...


 
  
 Question is does it make your Elise more HiFi sounding.


----------



## connieflyer

My problem with this is, that you have twenty miles of heavy cable from the generating plant to the substation then the wire to the neighborhood and the final drop to the house, then all the house wiring, finally ends up at the Elise, and goes across this expensive quarter inch of metal and now everything before it has changed. Unless there is some kind of magic convolutions of the electrons in that quarter inch of "wire" with filtering and regeneration ability, pray tell how this is accomplished. I have been in electronics far to long to believe that a small piece of metal no matter how "precious" can accomplish this.  If this is in fact true then ohm's law needs to be rewritten and the "new" electron flow needs to be taught through out the industry and education system. Now wouldn't it make sense for all manufacturers to incorporate this "new" technology in all the new equipment and eliminate all the extraneous circuits to improve the signal and save all that money? Do a double blind test with several people and see how many can pick out the "new" fuse.


----------



## frederick-rea

No I don't think so. That is a matter of .... you know
  
 It's the old song that if your ears don't listen, science will prove. But for me it was a wast money 
 bye


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Do a double blind test with several people and see how many can pick out the "new" fuse.




LOL, Right On!!!


----------



## mordy

If the expensive fuse won't correct your problems, do I have something for you:
  




  
 On a more serious note, what would it say on a 120V fuse for the Elise?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> My problem with this is, that you have twenty miles of heavy cable from the generating plant to the substation then the wire to the neighborhood and the final drop to the house, then all the house wiring, finally ends up at the Elise, and goes across this expensive quarter inch of metal and now everything before it has changed. Unless there is some kind of magic convolutions of the electrons in that quarter inch of "wire" with filtering and regeneration ability, pray tell how this is accomplished. I have been in electronics far to long to believe that a small piece of metal no matter how "precious" can accomplish this.  If this is in fact true then ohm's law needs to be rewritten and the "new" electron flow needs to be taught through out the industry and education system. Now wouldn't it make sense for all manufacturers to incorporate this "new" technology in all the new equipment and eliminate all the extraneous circuits to improve the signal and save all that money? Do a double blind test with several people and see how many can pick out the "new" fuse.


 
  
 Of course you're right cf...no way is that piece of wire going to _improve_ on what's gone before it. What does have me wondering, however, is...will a cheap nasty bit of fuse wire _*worsen things further lol?!*_ - hence the _possible_ viability, in certain cases, of a fuse with better quality wire?...Just a thought...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...would appreciate your own views on this..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## Spork67

mordy said:


> If the expensive fuse won't correct your problems, do I have something for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I imagine it would say something like 120V x.xA Manual might tell you, or check the existing fuse, or email Luckaz...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Of course you're right cf...no way is that piece of wire going to _improve_ on what's gone before it. What does have me wondering, however, is...will a cheap nasty bit of fuse wire _*worsen things further lol?!*_ - hence the _possible_ viability, in certain cases, of a fuse with better quality wire?...Just a thought...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm assuming all this fuse wire discussion is some kind of silly joke, or am I *really*_ _missing something here?


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> I'm assuming all this fuse wire discussion is some kind of silly joke, or am I *really*_ _missing something here?


 
  
 Hi H13...given the number of hi-fiers who spend a good deal of money on upgraded mains cables, perhaps we *are *missing something here, lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and perhaps not...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...yet another endless debate, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

frederick-rea said:


> Hey all
> Now I am using Chatham 6AS7G as powers and Philips EL3N as drivers. Because these drivers are growing with time, and treble with bad records could be a little forward, I use TS7236 but I prefer as well those Mullard EEC31
> 
> Important saying that DAC, as Headphones are fundamental pieces for rooling tubes
> ...


 
  
 Looks like you have a very nice setup there, f-r...and certainly treating Elise kindly, both upstream and down LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 All you need to do now is get some T1s and see how they compare to the XCs...my wallet has gone on strike! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but they were too heavy for my poor ol' head anyway, alas...). CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi H13...given the number of hi-fiers who spend a good deal of money on upgraded mains cables, perhaps we *are *missing something here, lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL
  
 Then I suppose we should be considering these old friends too, maybe we need a fourth Elise thread for fuses, internal wires, solder constituents etc, etc,


----------



## frederick-rea

Since my early days of High End sound (45 years ago), i hear talking about this. And if this stops some good houses could be closed, as this is a good part of audiophile discuss. Now I want is to be seated with my ELISE driving Conrad Johnson ElevenA, and listen to a good record file. Now I am struggling to find the best sounding records, because good readers (quote CD's) shows all bad noises (or not)
 Cheers


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> LOL
> 
> Then I suppose we should be considering these old friends too, maybe we need a fourth Elise thread for fuses, internal wires, solder constituents etc, etc,


 
  
 OMG, H13....there's probably material enough for a *dozen* threads!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but we've enough already, lol!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## HOWIE13

@hypnos1
  
 More Elise madness! Totally incurable, but who cares 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now back to reality:
  
 These just arrived,
  
  

  
  
  
 and I've a Mojo coming later so I'll burn them in with my metallic sounding TS7236's using Mojo as the DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Everything should be piping hot by tomorrow morning.
  
 Just remembered Mojo needs 10 hours of battery charge before use- bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## hypnos1

frederick-rea said:


> Since my early days of High End sound (45 years ago), i hear talking about this. And if this stops some good houses could be closed, as this is a good part of audiophile discuss. Now I want is to be seated with my ELISE driving Conrad Johnson ElevenA, and listen to a good record file. *Now I am struggling to find the best sounding records, because good readers (quote CD's) shows all bad noises (or not).*
> Cheers


 
  
 Aahhh...the downside of a good TT or DAC/amp/HP combo - especially with Elise's resolving capabilities. What once seemed good can then bring sadness...and vice-versa! And this applies to both vinyl and digital, of course. Poor original mastering jumps right out and hits you between the eyes (ears!)...but conversely, what one might expect as being so-so can in fact be quite startling - in an _extremely_ pleasant way. Modern tube amp systems can do wonders for the standard 16-bit CD medium, to be sure...depending on the skills of the recording engineer, that is!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Good luck in your search, f-r...


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> More Elise madness! Totally incurable, but who cares
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those certainly are nice-looking tubes...shame we appear to have a bit longer wait, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And hopefully your 7236s will start behaving like most others' appear to...if not, perhaps you have indeed been unlucky with your first ones...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Those certainly are nice-looking tubes...shame we appear to have a bit longer wait, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Had a quick listen to the tubes, just a couple of minutes to check they worked and boy are they lush and smooth, big sound stage too- I can imagine they would match well with brighter cans and power tubes. Will burn my 7236's this evening. Cheers.


----------



## connieflyer

As the sole purpose of a fuse is to be the weak link in the power input to the equipment.  It passes the current, voltage not signal.  The source before the fuse for miles out in the open exposed to wind ,weather, squirrels you name it, has it done to it with all the connections as a break in the wire path, have done their worst by time it gets to the amp. That little piece of wire is a path just like the rest of the distribution system to power the amp. The wire used in the individual components like the resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers stand-offs solder at each component connection would be more of a concern than just the fuse.  But since most are not replaceable and the individual fuse are they sell the idea that this little miracle will make a big difference at 100% price increase or more.  They laugh all the way to the bank.  Pure placebo effect. I paid extra, it has to sound better so it does.Back to the music


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> As the sole purpose of a fuse is to be the weak link in the power input to the equipment.  It passes the current, voltage not signal.  The source before the fuse for miles out in the open exposed to sind weather squirrels you name it has it done to it with all the connections as a break in the wire path, have done there worst by time it gets to the amp. That little piece of wire is a path just like the rest of the distribution system to power the amp. The wire used in the individual components like the resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers stand-offs solder at each comonent connection would be more of a concern than just the fuse.  But since most are replaceable and the individual comonent are not they sell the idea that this little miracle will make a difference at 100% price increase or more.  They laugh all the way to the bank.  Puree placebo effect. I paid extra, it has to sound better so it does.Back to the music


 
  
 Exactly my thoughts too.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> These just arrived,


 
  
 Sylvania 6SN7wgt ? I love them. How much did that cost you?


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> As the sole purpose of a fuse is to be the weak link in the power input to the equipment.  It passes the current, voltage not signal.  The source before the fuse for miles out in the open exposed to wind ,weather, squirrels you name it, has it done to it with all the connections as a break in the wire path, have done their worst by time it gets to the amp. That little piece of wire is a path just like the rest of the distribution system to power the amp. The wire used in the individual components like the resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers stand-offs solder at each component connection would be more of a concern than just the fuse.  But since most are not replaceable and the individual fuse are they sell the idea that this little miracle will make a big difference at 100% price increase or more.  They laugh all the way to the bank.  Pure placebo effect. I paid extra, it has to sound better so it does.Back to the music




GULP! You mean I wasted my moh-nee on the 70 dollar fuse? I thought cleaned the 'muddiness' right up!

Hahahaha!! I love it, all these years later and people are still falling for BS....

Radio was touted as being the medium to end ignorance...then it was TV....now the inner-net....

Oh well, enjoy this, instead 



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzcA8suIO40[/VIDEO]


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Sylvania 6SN7wgt ? I love them. How much did that cost you?


 
  
 Yes that's the ones- £60 for the pair.
  
 They are reading around 90% on my tester so probably not used much or maybe NOS.
 Will need to burn them in but very good initial impression. They sound a bit similar to 'Chrome Dome' but bigger sound stage and more bass presence. Less at the top but more prominent, richer mids.
 Should suit vocals a treat.
 I bought them 'cos you and others were so enthusiastic about them. Glad I did.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks and Yo @connieflyer...logic certainly does seem to nail it - I will leave it to (brave!) others to argue the toss! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...mind you, they do _*look*_ much nicer LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps they should be mounted outside the chasis so they can be seen!!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Perhaps they should be mounted outside the chasis so they can be seen!!


 
  
 I guarantee staring at it would raise the amp's delivery 2 notches _at least, LOL!!_





...


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Yes that's the ones- £60 for the pair.
> 
> They are reading around 90% on my tester so probably not used much or maybe NOS.
> Will need to burn them in but very good initial impression. They sound a bit similar to 'Chrome Dome' but bigger sound stage and more bass presence. Less at the top but more prominent, richer mids.
> ...


 

 That's a good price for the pair.
  
 My initial impression of these drivers are that they sounded dry when I first heard them in my Darkvoice 336se. However since I got another to make it a pair, they hit it right on Elise, paired with 7236. Wider soundstage, prominent mids indeed and the bass surprised me. It's not overly strong but is more pronounced and tighter than the Chrome Dome.
  
 There's will be better 6SN7s but these are certainly good sounding .... especially for their price.
  
 I've been listening with my modded HD650. Perhaps it's time to try the T1 with these drivers and 7236.


----------



## UntilThen

Right ... I just strapped on the T1. I hear so much more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Modded HD650 is more warm and cosy but the T1 is so revealing and the soundstage....


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> That's a good price for the pair.
> 
> My initial impression of these drivers are that they sounded dry when I first heard them in my Darkvoice 336se. However since I got another to make it a pair, they hit it right on Elise, paired with 7236. Wider soundstage, prominent mids indeed and the bass surprised me. It's not overly strong but is more pronounced and tighter than the Chrome Dome.
> 
> ...


 
 Exactly as I hear them. I think they will pair well with 7236 and 6080's as they will add a layer of richness and 'glow' to the sound.
 I think my AKG's will match nicely.
 It's the sound stage that took me by surprise. Possibly the widest 6SN7 I've heard, to date.
 Considering 'Chrome Domes' are very rare and cost an arm and a leg these Sylvania 6SN7WGT's are fantastic value just now.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Exactly as I hear them. I think they will pair well with 7236 and 6080's as they will add a layer of richness and 'glow' to the sound.
> I think my AKG's will match nicely.
> It's the sound stage that took me by surprise. Possibly the widest 6SN7 I've heard, to date.
> Considering 'ChromeDomes' are very rare and cost an arm and a leg these are fantastic value just now.


 

 Looks like we've the same ears after all.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Looks like we've the same ears after all.


 
  
 I never doubted it.


----------



## louisxiawei

howie13 said:


> Yes that's the ones- £60 for the pair.
> 
> They are reading around 90% on my tester so probably not used much or maybe NOS.
> Will need to burn them in but very good initial impression. They sound a bit similar to 'Chrome Dome' but bigger sound stage and more bass presence. Less at the top but more prominent, richer mids.
> ...


 
 Hey HOWIE13,
  
 Your reply just triggered a noob question from me. Should I buy a decent amp tube tester like Orange VT1000 Valve Testing Unit to test the tube I bought especially like GEC 6AS7G? What tester have you been using at the moment?
  
 That tester I mention is really expensive!


----------



## UntilThen

Unless you plan on getting a lot of tubes otherwise a tube tester is an expensive outlay. You have to buy from reputable sellers and trust their test results.
  
 Of the many tubes that I have, only one TS 5998 turn out bad and it was a dodgy seller who was subsequently ban by eBay. I got my money refunded from eBay though.


----------



## HOWIE13

louisxiawei said:


> Hey HOWIE13,
> 
> Your reply just triggered a noob question from me. Should I buy a decent amp tube tester like Orange VT1000 Valve Testing Unit to test the tube I bought especially like GEC 6AS7G? What tester have you been using at the moment?
> 
> That tester I mention is really expensive!


 
  
 I would say spend your money on tubes and don't worry too much about your tubes' electrical performance unless, perhaps, you are regularly going to buy very expensive tubes.
  
 Having said that, I use the tester whenever I buy a tube and have only sent back three or four over three years. Most you can tell if there' something wrong by the sound, and in a few instances the tube may have been advertised as 'NOS' and, having paid a premium for that, I found the tube only at say 60%, so I return it.
 Sellers don't generally argue if you have readings to present to them as I suspect some sellers make up the readings they quote. Others, to be fair, quote identical readings to mine.
  
 Here's what I use. It only provides up to 200V anode voltage so I often use the tube's characteristic graphs to interpret my results. It can't do every type of tube either and only those whose current draw is less than 1A, but that's about 80% of my tubes anyway. It does therefore do 6DJ8/12AU7/ 6SN7 tubes but not 6AS7's.
 It was given to me as a gift and it's fun to use. It does let you match plate/ tube amplification.
  
  
 http://www.britishaudiostore.com/tube-imp-mini-tube-tester/


----------



## frederick-rea

Does anyone knows this regarding Philips?


----------



## Jozurr

What tubes are considered the best for bass on the Elise? Has anyone made specific comparisons with regards to bass with various tubes?


----------



## Oskari

frederick-rea said:


> Does anyone knows this regarding Philips?
> [ATTACHMENT=3192]s-l1600.jpg (171k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]




That's the same Austrian-made Philips many of us have, just Adzam-branded.


----------



## frederick-rea

oskari said:


> frederick-rea said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone knows this regarding Philips?
> ...


 
 Thank you. So, same performance than Philips made in Holand?
 Bought a pair and waiting for them. These tubes does need so much time cooking for a better stable treble. Find Bass and middles quite good, clean and with no coloration but treble was totally asleep at the beginnig and with time they open up till a very controlled highs. I use Chatham as powers
 Cheers


----------



## HOWIE13

frederick-rea said:


> Does anyone knows this regarding Philips?


 
  
 Isn't that Mazda spelled backwards? If so I think I read somewhere on this thread that they are good tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

jozurr said:


> What tubes are considered the best for bass on the Elise? Has anyone made specific comparisons with regards to bass with various tubes?


 
  
 In my very limited experience Elise handles tubes so well that any tube noted for it's bass qualities seems to perform well, and to character, in Elise.
  
 K-R 6SN7,VT231, Sylvania 6SN7WGT, Bad Boy, Chrome Dome, Philips EL3N to name just a few I've personally used as drivers. For powers most will give good bass with these drivers but for me EL3N, 5998 and Christmas tree set-up do the most bass.
  
 It will also depend on your headphones-some tubes may be too full in the bass for some cans.
  
 There's lots of personal preferences for tubes. We all have our favourites as even a cursory glance at this thread will demonstrate .


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> In my very limited experience Elise handles tubes so well that any tube noted for it's bass qualities seems to perform well, and to character, in Elise.
> 
> K-R 6SN7,VT231, Sylvania 6SN7WGT, Bad Boy, Chrome Dome, Philips EL3N to name just a few I've personally used as drivers. For powers most will give good bass with these drivers but for me EL3N, 5998 and Christmas tree set-up do the most bass.
> 
> ...


 

 Correct. 5998 comes to mind for bass impact. 7236 has a tight and controlled bass which I like.  For drivers, I'd say EL3N and ECC31.
  
 Amongst the 6SN7 that I have, RCA 6SN7gt VT231 smoke glass and Sylvania 6SN7wgt have quite a bass impact too.
  
 It depends on how much bass an individual wants. There's always the subwoofer.


----------



## Jozurr

I already have the Liquid Glass. I was gutted to find out that I cant run the ECC31 or possibly the EL3N on it even with adapters. I've been actually thinking about the Elise and whether it will sound better with the ECC31 or EL3N vs the Glass and 6SN7W or KR VT231 etc. I've recently bought the MicroZOTL2 as well, and it doesnt have enough power for me to listen to the Omni and HE-500 before it starts distorting. Anyone got any ideas?


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> Isn't that Mazda spelled backwards? If so I think I read somewhere on this thread that they are good tubes.


 
  
 Yes. Adzam was the tube brand of MBLE, a Belgian manufacturer.
  
 Mazda was originally a GE light bulb brand. They had subsidiaries and licensees in various markets. That's why the name Mazda appears here and there, also in Belgium for MBLE's light bulbs.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Yes. Adzam was the tube brand of MBLE, a Belgian manufacturer.
> 
> Mazda was originally a GE light bulb brand. They had subsidiaries and licensees in various markets. That's why the name Mazda appears here and there, also in Belgium for MBLE's light bulbs.


 
  
 That's useful to know. I vaguely remember Mazda light bulbs from way back. I also once owned a Mazda car but that's another company I guess.


----------



## Oskari

frederick-rea said:


> Thank you. So, same performance than Philips made in Holand?


 
  
 The Adzam in the photo is an Austrian-made EL3N. The Philips EL3N tubes many here have are the exact same tube, even with the "made in Holland" claim printed on the tube. I'm not sure if anybody here has actual Dutch-made EL3Ns.


----------



## UntilThen

These days Mazda is a car.


----------



## UntilThen

jozurr said:


> I already have the Liquid Glass. I was gutted to find out that I cant run the ECC31 or possibly the EL3N on it even with adapters. I've been actually thinking about the Elise and whether it will sound better with the ECC31 or EL3N vs the Glass and 6SN7W or KR VT231 etc. I've recently bought the MicroZOTL2 as well, and it doesnt have enough power for me to listen to the Omni and HE-500 before it starts distorting. Anyone got any ideas?


 

 What was the question? 
  
 I can tell you that HE-560 with Elise will go very loud without clipping. Probably the ears will clip first before the headphone does. 
  
 Elise can sound very good with 6SN7 and 6AS7. It's not confine to ECC31 and EL3N. In fact having tried all the C3G, ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N, I'm starting to explore 6SN7 more now. They sound great.


----------



## UntilThen

This was the tube that I saw on eBay that started it all. It's a Mazda  I wonder who bought that tube.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> This was the tube that I saw on eBay that started it all. It's a Mazda  I wonder who bought that tube.


 
  
 That's the French Mazda brand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I don't know who the actual manufacturer is.)


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> That's the French Mazda brand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Probably the same manufacturer of these Mazda 6N7G which I bought earlier. I was searching for more Mazda 6N7G and the Mazda EL3N pop up instead.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> These days Mazda is a car.


 
  
  
 Elise is a car too:


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Probably the same manufacturer of these Mazda 6N7G which I bought earlier. I was searching for more Mazda 6N7G and the Mazda EL3N pop up instead.


 
  
 Yes, could be. But the Mazda-branded EL3N could be a rebranded Dutch-made tube for all I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 N.B. French _Mazda_, actually _La Compagnie des Lampes_, was a manufacturer, not just a rebrander.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is one to test your vocal naturalness:



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrb7x1nDxvw[/VIDEO]


----------



## Jozurr

untilthen said:


> What was the question?
> 
> I can tell you that HE-560 with Elise will go very loud without clipping. Probably the ears will clip first before the headphone does.
> 
> Elise can sound very good with 6SN7 and 6AS7. It's not confine to ECC31 and EL3N. In fact having tried all the C3G, ECC31, 6N7G, FDD20 and EL3N, I'm starting to explore 6SN7 more now. They sound great.


 
  
 There were two questions:
  
 1) Firstly if the Elise is powerful enough to run the Omni and HE-500 without distortion
 2) Would the Elise with EL3N or ECC31 sound good or bad compared to 6SN7W on the Liquid Glass. If I had to just run the 6SN7, Id be happy with the Glass.
  
 I guess my first question is partly answered as the HE-560 needs good power too.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is one to test your vocal naturalness:


 
 Thanks JV. Very interesting recording. But after I listened to it I tried singing while taking a shower. It did nothing to improve my "vocal naturalness"


----------



## UntilThen

jozurr said:


> There were two questions:
> 
> 1) Firstly if the Elise is powerful enough to run the Omni and HE-500 without distortion
> 2) Would the Elise with EL3N or ECC31 sound good or bad compared to 6SN7W on the Liquid Glass. If I had to just run the 6SN7, Id be happy with the Glass.
> ...


 

 I gather it's more than one question. 
  
@ostewart was using HE-500 with Elise and even brought it to the recent London Cam Jam. He seems to like that pairing very much.
  
 I think it's a big endorsement of Elise when I hear of interest in wanting to compare Elise with Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass using the best of drivers. The LG looks to be a very special tube amp with a high price tag at $3750 new. Elise is $699. It's like pitting David against Goliath. I know there will be the logic of 'it doesn't necessary sound better because it's more expensive' but I disagree. If a manufacturer produce a tube amp priced to sell at that price, it better sound better than one priced 5 times less.
  
 Just viewing this video of the Liquid Glass, you can tell, it's features packed and look nice too. You can use tubes both ways. Horizontal and vertical. There's a switch for 12 and 6V. It's a hybrid so the output stage is ss. That should drive most any headphones. I hope to listen one day.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Elise is a car too:


 
  
 How can I forget that. All this time I thought Elise is a girl. !!!


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> How can I forget that. All this time I thought Elise is a girl. !!!


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I gather it's more than one question.
> 
> @ostewart was using HE-500 with Elise and even brought it to the recent London Cam Jam. He seems to like that pairing very much.
> 
> ...




  
 It looks a beautiful amp but have I misunderstood something they said? I mean, what's so cool about a tube amp taking on the characteristics of the tube? Isn't that what tube amps are meant to do?  G1217's tube amps are all chameleon amps and Elise certainly takes on the characteristics of the tubes.
  
 Another thing; I'm sure it's a great sounding amp but you won't be able to have fun with our favourite  6AS7,5998, 6008 type tubes as max current draw for 6V tubes is 1A.(unless I'm misunderstanding the spec info).


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> It looks a beautiful amp but have I misunderstood something they said? I mean, what's so cool about a tube amp taking on the characteristics of the tube? Isn't that what tube amps are meant to do?  G1217's tube amps are all chameleon amps and Elise certainly takes on the characteristics of the tubes.
> 
> Another thing; I'm sure it's a great sounding amp but you won't be able to have fun with our favourite  6AS7,5998, 6008 type tubes as max current draw for 6V tubes is 1A.(unless I'm misunderstanding the spec info).


 

 Tube amps may exhibit the sonic signature of tubes but tube amps don't sound the same even using same tubes. Take for instance the Darkvoice 336se and Elise. Even if I use the same Sylvania 6SN7wgt and Tung Sol 5998 in both (although in the DV it's single driver and power), you can hear a distinctly different presentation. 
  
 DV has that chest pounding bass feel whereas Elise will rock you gently. Speaking on which this is one of my fav Jennifer Warnes song.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Tube amps may exhibit the sonic signature of tubes but tube amps don't sound the same even using same tubes. Take for instance the Darkvoice 336se and Elise. Even if I use the same Sylvania 6SN7wgt and Tung Sol 5998 in both (although in the DV it's single driver and power), you can hear a distinctly different presentation.
> 
> DV has that chest pounding bass feel whereas Elise will rock you gently. Speaking on which this is one of my fav Jennifer Warnes song.




 Thank you so much. I've been getting more headaches reading about trying to determining how a tube will sound in a particular amp by trying to extrapolate how it sounds in a different amp )))
  
 And wonderful video.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Agree the DV sounds different with the Elise using the same tube compliment (by half).

Elise has lighter bass but nicer better soundstage.

DV has a wonderful, much loved by me, rich deep and and full bass.

Wish Elise had DV's bass...


----------



## UntilThen

Wishing that Elise has DV's bottom would require a cosmetic surgeon.
  
 This combo sounds good too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> Wishing that Elise has DV's bottom would require a cosmetic surgeon.
> 
> This combo sounds good too. :bigsmile_face:




Indeed, almost everything sounds good in Elise...kind of amazing!


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Indeed, almost everything sounds good in Elise...kind of amazing!


 
 I'll drink to that


----------



## Jozurr

untilthen said:


> I gather it's more than one question.
> 
> @ostewart was using HE-500 with Elise and even brought it to the recent London Cam Jam. He seems to like that pairing very much.
> 
> ...




  
 Yes the Liquid Glass amp is very special and I love it. Specially with a growing collection of 6SN7 tubes. However, it's just the curiosity in me which makes me want the Elise, just like I got the MZ2. Also, I do like the sound of ECC32 tubes and used them on the Glass, but NOS they cost around $800 for which I can get the Elise and use the ECC31 instead, which are essentially the same with a 6SN7 adapter as the ECC32, just that the Glass does not allow common cathode tubes to work (which the ECC31 are and cant be separated even with the adapter).
  
 For EL3N users, how are you using the EL3N with an adapter instead of 6SN7 considering that the EL3N is a single pentode and the 6SN7 is a double triode. I understand that the EL3N in a christmas tree setup are double, and therefore can be mapped to the 6SN7 pinouts, but not sure how the single EL3N are working with an adapter. I'm reading that the EL3N do even better bass than the ECC31 (which I already like), but there's not enough space on the Glass to install a christmas tree setup of EL3N, which also makes me want to try the Elise.
  
 I do love good amounts of clean bass. Are you guys of the opinion that it's better for me to go for the DV336 instead? I currently use Kenrad VT231 on the G0lass, which sound pretty amazing to say the least, but just want to explore if there is anything better out there. I know the quality of the amp matters as well, but who knows what you end up liking when you compare stuff. Like I never thought that I'd like the TH-X00 more than many expensive phones.


----------



## UntilThen

jozurr said:


> Yes the Liquid Glass amp is very special and I love it. Specially with a growing collection of 6SN7 tubes. However, it's just the curiosity in me which makes me want the Elise, just like I got the MZ2. Also, I do like the sound of ECC32 tubes and used them on the Glass, but NOS they cost around $800 for which I can get the Elise and use the ECC31 instead, which are essentially the same with a 6SN7 adapter as the ECC32, just that the Glass does not allow common cathode tubes to work (which the ECC31 are and cant be separated even with the adapter).
> 
> For EL3N users, how are you using the EL3N with an adapter instead of 6SN7 considering that the EL3N is a single pentode and the 6SN7 is a double triode. I understand that the EL3N in a christmas tree setup are double, and therefore can be mapped to the 6SN7 pinouts, but not sure how the single EL3N are working with an adapter. I'm reading that the EL3N do even better bass than the ECC31 (which I already like), but there's not enough space on the Glass to install a christmas tree setup of EL3N, which also makes me want to try the Elise.
> 
> I do love good amounts of clean bass. Are you guys of the opinion that it's better for me to go for the DV336 instead? I currently use Kenrad VT231 on the G0lass, which sound pretty amazing to say the least, but just want to explore if there is anything better out there. I know the quality of the amp matters as well, but who knows what you end up liking when you compare stuff. Like I never thought that I'd like the TH-X00 more than many expensive phones.


 

 I was once chatting happily in the DV 336se tube rolling thread when a guy pop in and said that the DV 336se is a very bad boy because it got him started in tube amp that lead him all the way to a EC445.
  
 Looks like you're pretty much a tube amp lover. There's a very good chance you will love Elise sound even though you have the Liquid Glass. Especially when you can use the ECC31 in place of the very much more expensive ECC32.
  
 EL3N is used in Elise as a strapped triode. The adapter pins are configured that way. Hence the single EL3N are not used as pentode in Elise as drivers but as strapped triodes.
  
 If it's clean bass that you like, Elise will provide that. Much also depends on the tubes and headphone used. I don't overly crave massive bass but I like bass to be tight and controlled with impact. T1 provides that for me. ECC31 with 5998, 7236 and Chatham 6AS7G sounds very good. Likewise a selection of 6SN7 as drivers. If you ever get Elise, certainly try the EL3N which are still reasonably priced and are indeed special.
  
 I wouldn't recommend the DV336se over Elise. Elise sounds much more refined to me. Bass weight isn't everything for me. Elise is more revealing with good instruments placement and certainly wider and deeper soundstage. Clarity and details are in abundance and it's fast and dynamic. Elise has an engaging sonic signature that makes you feels it's worth much more than the $699 asking price. Have a listen and you'll know what I mean.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @Jozurr...I don't envy you your decisions, given your investment already LOL!
  
 Elise would certainly be a great way of using your ECC31s...not to mention trying some EL3Ns. Just how the final result would stand up against the LG is hard to predict, of course, but I for one would _*love*_ to hear the results...so if you haven't already been convinced by the guys here, I say _*go for it*__..._if only to please me and my curiosity! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








. But I'm sure you wouldn't regret it - with an enterprising curiosity like yours you would probably never forgive yourself if you ignored such impulses, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GOOD LUCK, whatever...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CJ


----------



## lukeap69

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @Jozurr...I don't envy you your decisions, given your investment already LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


LC Glass vs MZOTL2 vs Elise would be epic!

To help the band convince you @Jozurr , I have few pairs of 6AS7/6080 tubes you can try with the Elise if you so decide to purchase one. And I have quite a few 6BL7's and 6BX7's you can also try if you decide to get adapters!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 With all the talk about using 6SN7 tubes in the Elise I decided to give them a try. In addition to the TS reissue 6SN7GTB I have a box of some twenty 6SN7 tubes - Sylvanias, Tung Sol,RCA, Raytheon, Japanese ? brand. (No Sylvania 6SN7WGT though, but I have GT chrome top tubes).
  
 They all share the distinction of having been plucked from the eBay 99c stores (which BTW, seem to have gone the way of all the 99c stores). A few are pairs, but mainly singles.
  
 Power tubes used were the TS 7236. Alas, with these power tubes all of them sound thin with too much treble emphasis in my system and a narrow sound stage. Even the TS Russian reissues sound thin in this set up.
  
 Switched back to the EL3N tubes - a breath of fresh air: tight bass, great sound stage - everything sounds right.
  
 My question is: Should I try to find a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGT tubes? Will they sound so much better than the Russian TS reissues?


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> With all the talk about using 6SN7 tubes in the Elise I decided to give them a try. In addition to the TS reissue 6SN7GTB I have a box of some twenty 6SN7 tubes - Sylvanias, Tung Sol,RCA, Raytheon, Japanese ? brand. (No Sylvania 6SN7WGT though, but I have GT chrome top tubes).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...my question is : given your findings - in your system - why on Earth would you want to LOL?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...EL3N rules, OK?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## mordy

Hi H1,
  
 You are right. Now the next question - and I do not want to open up a can of worms; just want some clarification.
  
 There seemed to be a general consensus that a fancy (read expensive) fuse did (next to) nothing to improve the sound. How can you explain your findings that a little piece of silver wire (or very high quality copper wire) will improve the sound? Is it possible that such a wire works as a tone control?


----------



## connieflyer

Any recommendations for socket savers for the elise


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> With all the talk about using 6SN7 tubes in the Elise I decided to give them a try. In addition to the TS reissue 6SN7GTB I have a box of some twenty 6SN7 tubes - Sylvanias, Tung Sol,RCA, Raytheon, Japanese ? brand. (No Sylvania 6SN7WGT though, but I have GT chrome top tubes).
> 
> ...


 

 Mordy, it's very possible that in your setup and with your preference, EL3N and 7236 sounds best to you. I do like that pairing very much. No disputing that.
  
 I don't think you need to hunt down the Sylvania 6SN7wgt if the EL3N / 7236 sounds wonderful to you.
  
 However I've been amazed at a lot of tubes combination in Elise. I have too many loves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also I listen mainly with headphones, using modded HD650, T1 and HE-560.
  
 This morning I decide to pop these tubes in again. It's made my weekend. With fist pumped, it's a YES moment.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Mordy, it's very possible that in your setup and with your preference, EL3N and 7236 sounds best to you. I do like that pairing very much. No disputing that.
> 
> I don't think you need to hunt down the Sylvania 6SN7wgt if the EL3N / 7236 sounds wonderful to you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey UT...does that mean you're not gonna be $300 better off soon, lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...they are mightily good tubes - but sshhh, don't tell @pctazhp whatever you do...his wallet (and family!) will not thank you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps Thanks for the (matte) spelling correction - thought it looked wrong...@connieflyer's brain rewiring has a lot to answer for! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...does that mean you're not gonna be $300 better off soon, lol?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have to raise my price to $400 now or a trade with his HD800S


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> You are right. Now the next question - and I do not want to open up a can of worms; just want some clarification.
> 
> There seemed to be a general consensus that a fancy (read expensive) fuse did (next to) nothing to improve the sound. How can you explain your findings that a little piece of silver wire (or very high quality copper wire) will improve the sound? Is it possible that such a wire works as a tone control?


 
  
 Hi m....I presume you mean in tube adapting...
  
 Well, unlike just power wires, in adapters you have of course grid(s), cathode(s) and anode(s) all carrying the all-important signal...and they actually mount up to a fair bit of wire in the end. Different types - and qualities - of wire definitely affect sound, and it did come as a bit of a surprise to me just how much difference _relatively_ small amounts could make when introduced into the signal line.
  
 I suppose in a way you could indeed call them "tone controls"...as opposed to going into the finer aspects of frequency range/electron handling that go beyond mere alteration of said tone, and which I will leave to others far more knowledgeable in such matters than I to elaborate upon LOL!
  
 All I can say is that I personally have experimented a good few times with different combinations of wire when adapting tubes, and have noticed differing end results...different "tones", if you will...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...silver wire can be quite different to copper of course, for example...and silver-_coated_ different to _pure_ silver...and then there's 24K gold LOL!!...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I have to raise my price to $400 now or a trade with his HD800S


 
  
*!!!!!!!!!*





...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I have to raise my price to $400 now or a trade with his HD800S


 
 Now. Now. @hypnos1 told you to be nice to me!! I'll give you one more chance before the imminent collapse of the world financial system. I'll trade you a collector's edition of a Frankenstein bobble head doll for your ECC31s


----------



## richard89

Hey guys. I got a pair of Tungsol/Chatham 6080WAs in. I like it better than what the EL3N + 7236 so far. After going back to the 7236, the treble seemed a little sharp to my ears. The first listen I thought the 7236 + EL3N combo not overly bright and good sounding to my ears, but last night, I think my ears have had too much time with headphones, because it was a little painful to listen to - but again I am pretty sensitive to treble frequencies. I think I should wait until I listen for a few days before I give impressions on these tubes as well, as I don't want to mislead anyone.
  
 Also, a question -- does anyone know what a faded metallic portion overlaying the glass on the top of the tube means? I noticed that most new tubes have the silver metallic deposit completely covering the top portion of the tube. I'm under the impression that it means that it is an old used tube that has been used frequently. I bought these 6080WA's and I think it's possible the Tungsol version that I received may be used and at the end of its' life and just want to make sure... Thanks


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Hey guys. I got a pair of Tungsol/Chatham 6080WAs in. I like it better than what the EL3N + 7236 so far. After going back to the 7236, the treble seemed a little sharp to my ears. The first listen I thought the 7236 + EL3N combo not overly bright and good sounding to my ears, but last night, I think my ears have had too much time with headphones, because it was a little painful to listen to - but again I am pretty sensitive to treble frequencies. I think I should wait until I listen for a few days before I give impressions on these tubes as well, as I don't want to mislead anyone.
> 
> Also, a question -- does anyone know what a faded metallic portion overlaying the glass on the top of the tube means? I noticed that most new tubes have the silver metallic deposit completely covering the top portion of the tube. I'm under the impression that it means that it is an old used tube that has been used frequently. I bought these 6080WA's and I think it's possible the Tungsol version that I received may be used and at the end of its' life and just want to make sure... Thanks


 
  
 I read it's okay if there is a small circumscribed area of metallic looking dullness above each heater element as this can occur with some tubes even if the tube has only been used for a short time for testing purposes. The ones I have seen are more or less round and about 3mm each in diameter and the tubes have tested strong in all cases. That's not to say they may still not have been used for several days though.
 You can never be 100% certain with tubes-unless it's broke!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Now. Now. @hypnos1 told you to be nice to me!! I'll give you one more chance before the imminent collapse of the world financial system. I'll trade you a collector's edition of a Frankenstein bobble head doll for your ECC31s


 
  
 Will pass on that one I'm afraid, pct...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...now if it were a first edition (signed!) Mary Shelley, I just _might_ be tempted LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and could possibly turn me back into a nice(?!) guy - but don't count on it!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(just keep your focus on the glorious EL3N mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## hypnos1

richard89 said:


> Hey guys. I got a pair of Tungsol/Chatham 6080WAs in. I like it better than what the EL3N + 7236 so far. After going back to the 7236, the treble seemed a little sharp to my ears. The first listen I thought the 7236 + EL3N combo not overly bright and good sounding to my ears, but last night, I think my ears have had too much time with headphones, because it was a little painful to listen to - but again I am pretty sensitive to treble frequencies. I think I should wait until I listen for a few days before I give impressions on these tubes as well, as I don't want to mislead anyone.
> 
> Also, a question -- does anyone know what a faded metallic portion overlaying the glass on the top of the tube means? I noticed that most new tubes have the silver metallic deposit completely covering the top portion of the tube. I'm under the impression that it means that it is an old used tube that has been used frequently. I bought these 6080WA's and I think it's possible the Tungsol version that I received may be used and at the end of its' life and just want to make sure... Thanks


 
  
 Hi r89.
  
 Do your 7236s have many hours on them yet? Are your TS/Chathams used, with many more hours on 'em?...more time should indeed clarify things a bit further...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I used to wonder (worry) about such discolouration of the flashing...until I read that it can in fact be a _good_ sign, in that it has done/is still doing its job of absorbing unwanted gases. My own examples have always been just as 'strong' as those with perfect silvering. My NOS QTL-branded Mullard ECC31 also has a small patch on the glass (inside) above one of the heaters, even though the flashing is actually on the bottom...and it performs _brilliantly_ LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so you should be OK. If your TS were in fact nearing its end, I should think you would notice an imbalance in the output volume...(but hope it isn't! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

Have been out the whole day playing tour guide to a relative who visited me but now back home with T1 strapped on and ECC31 and 5998 in Elise, I'm rewarded with rich glorious sound. Vivid and amazing instruments placement. Mids sound warm and lush yet intoxicating and bass ... oh so tight and punchy. Incredible tightness and control here. Treble is so sweet and clear. If you love details and clarity, look no further.
  
 Yet despite all the enjoyment I get out of the T1 original, I'm lusting for the HD800 ... not the S. Just the original version. Some time next year. HD800 is my next acquisition. 
  
 Meanwhile enjoy your music and Elise... amazing with T1 and HD800 (short brief listen of the HD800 on Elise at the meet and like it).


----------



## Spork67

Oops. nevermind.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Have been out the whole day playing tour guide to a relative who visited me but now back home with T1 strapped on and ECC31 and 5998 in Elise, I'm rewarded with rich glorious sound. Vivid and amazing instruments placement. Mids sound warm and lush yet intoxicating and bass ... oh so tight and punchy. Incredible tightness and control here. Treble is so sweet and clear. If you love details and clarity, look no further.
> 
> Yet despite all the enjoyment I get out of the T1 original, I'm lusting for the HD800 ... not the S. Just the original version. Some time next year. HD800 is my next acquisition.
> 
> Meanwhile enjoy your music and Elise... amazing with T1 and HD800 (short brief listen of the HD800 on Elise at the meet and like it).


 
 I hope you and the HD800 treble spike will be very happy with each other. If you are lusting for the spike you could go with the HD700 and save a lot of money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh no!!! Now @hypnos1 is going to have to tell me to be nice to you


----------



## UntilThen

Along with a few others I'm not plague by the so call spike in hd800 or T1 original.

What I hear is very clear detail sound which is my preference.


----------



## connieflyer

Having had the T1 gen1 and the 800 they do compliment each other. I still have to demo the Focal ELear but I don't think I will be missing much I don't get from the Senn.  I had a chance to try the 800s and I prefer the clarity of the original 800 better,  Said to be lacking in bass, but it does not seem that way to me.  Plenty there, it is not a bass head phone, where that is emphathized over the rest of the spectrum,  it is tight and controlled.  But this is my asesment,  I know when the 800s was on the way in there was alot of hasty selling off of used 800 waiting to get the 800s, lots of bargains, but prices are creeping back up, and not as many offered for sale as at first.  The sound stage with the EL3N's and TS 5998 is amazing.  Come on @UntilThen grab a pair, you will love swapping them in with the T1's!


----------



## UntilThen

I heard the hd700 at the meet. It didn't appeal to me.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Having had the T1 gen1 and the 800 they do compliment each other. I still have to demo the Focal ELear but I don't think I will be missing much I don't get from the Senn.  I had a chance to try the 800s and I prefer the clarity of the original 800 better,  Said to be lacking in bass, but it does not seem that way to me.  Plenty there, it is not a bass head phone, where that is emphathized over the rest of the spectrum,  it is tight and controlled.  But this is my asesment,  I know when the 800s was on the way in there was alot of hasty selling off of used 800 waiting to get the 800s, lots of bargains, but prices are creeping back up, and not as many offered for sale as at first.  The sound stage with the EL3N's and TS 5998 is amazing.  Come on @UntilThen grab a pair, you will love swapping them in with the T1's!


 
 OK. You and @UntilThen are ganging up on me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just a lonely voice crying in the wilderness


----------



## UntilThen

@Spork67 if you want my recommendation on headphones for Elise, you'd have known what it would be.

HD800 or T1 both original versions. That's because I like the speed of both headphones plus amazing clarity and details. Bass is how I like them. Nice and tight.


----------



## connieflyer

@pctazhp no crying allowed, unless it is after you have seem my picture, then it is okay!  Everyone hears things a little different, I liked the 800s just preferred the 800.  Now if I like the Focal and buy it I will be so lonnnnnnlyyy, right!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> @pctazhp no crying allowed, unless it is after you have seem my picture, then it is okay!  Everyone hears things a little different, I liked the 800s just preferred the 800.  Now if I like the Focal and buy it I will be so lonnnnnnlyyy, right!


 
 Or you can just look down your nose at the rest of us because for a while, at least, you will probably be the only one with the Elear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep us informed )))


----------



## connieflyer

I never look down my nose, (unless it is running!)  Have to arrange the demo first, guy is hard to reach sometimes.  The write up's are very good, but then my wife told her parents I was really nice too, so your mileage may very!


----------



## connieflyer

Tylll's review of the Elears..http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/enter-next-generation-focal-elear-headphone#txgmXEmGC3q1H8F7.97


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Tylll's review of the Elears..http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/enter-next-generation-focal-elear-headphone#txgmXEmGC3q1H8F7.97


 
 His reviews of the new Focals and Mr. Speakers have driven the HD800 threads into panic mode))) HD800S has been removed from his Hall of Fame and is no longer listenable. Too bad for them that I remain a lone voice in the wilderness there also when I talk about the Elise


----------



## connieflyer

That review sounded very interesting but the very fact that he took the 800 Off the Wall of Fame left the 600 there makes me want to listen to the years but certainly would not take his word for them being that good. Your voice in the wilderness will not be alone. Those folks on the 800 forums that are in a panic are nuts. If they cared that much about what one person says then they didn't really listen to their phones themselves. All the best


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> OK. You and @UntilThen are ganging up on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aah but the Lone Wolf enjoys a wonderful, carefree freedom LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...his cry is one of _*defiance!!*_





...ENJOY!...and as cf says - different ears!...
  
  


connieflyer said:


> That review sounded very interesting but the very fact that he took the 800 Off the Wall of Fame left the 600 there makes me want to listen to the years but certainly would not take his word for them being that good. Your voice in the wilderness will not be alone. Those folks on the 800 forums that are in a panic are nuts.* If they cared that much about what one person says then* *they didn't really listen to their phones themselves. *All the best


 
  
 Yo cf...far too many don't trust their own ears/judgment LOL!...sad indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Re. the 800...was very impressed with them at our meet earlier this year, but there was still _*something*_ about the T1 that drew me back - shame I can't now remember precisely what it was, but the difference didn't convince me to shell out for the Senns, and so I shall remain in blissful ignorance!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @Spork67 if you want my recommendation on headphones for Elise, you'd have known what it would be.
> 
> HD800 or T1 both original versions. That's because I like the speed of both headphones plus amazing clarity and details. Bass is how I like them. Nice and tight.


 
  
 Y'know UT...I too have never felt bass lacking in Elise - especially with our latter-end drivers LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Give me clean, clear, detailed, balanced bass *any* day!!...especially when combined with super extension a la ECC31 and EL3N...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Y'know UT...I too have never felt bass lacking in Elise - especially with our latter-end drivers LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 T1 and Elise with some of the better tube combinations gives a superb sound. It's easy to see why those owners fall over themselves in the T1 impressions thread. Read the 1st few pages of the thread. They absolutely love the T1 G1 - so do I. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However here's the big BUT - T1 needs to be paired with a correct amp. With Elise, it's a rocking combination.


----------



## UntilThen

Better make sure I post this on the correct thread or I'll get a clubbing.
  
 6 pack magic again in Elise. These EL3Ns sure sound clearer as the days goes by losing it's warmth and lushness, making it just right IMO. Oh the soundstage.... wider than a soccer field.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Better make sure I post this on the correct thread or I'll get a clubbing.
> 
> 6 pack magic again in Elise. These EL3Ns sure sound clearer as the days goes by losing it's warmth and lushness, making it just right IMO. Oh the soundstage.... wider than a soccer field.


 
  
 The Thread Police are watching you very closely, young man


----------



## UntilThen

The thread police will agree this looks better than Michelangelo's masterpiece.

And sound better than Florence Nightingale.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I still loathe my EL3N's!

But I do love my 6x 6BL7's and Ken-RAD VT-231's...

WORTH taking a clubbing, for


----------



## UntilThen

I think I've just revive multi toobs phenomena.


----------



## JazzVinyl

This is the bad boy amp that was at the meet today:

https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/studio-six/


----------



## UntilThen

Looks juicy. Almost every reviews of the latest tube amps says it's the best they have heard with the hd800.

Your choice is endless.


----------



## JazzVinyl

There were some fine SS amps there too. oppo HA1, some big monster called HPA something or other...they sounded really good, too, with all the expensive headphones...

Or maybe the expensive headphones made the amps sound good


----------



## JazzVinyl

Here is the fine SS amp seen at the meet:

http://lake-people.de/produktdetails/hpa-v281.html

It was *_really nice_* sounding!!!


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> Here is the fine SS amp seen at the meet:
> 
> http://lake-people.de/produktdetails/hpa-v281.html
> 
> It was *_really nice_* sounding!!!


 
  
 That's a powerful amp. Nice to see a balance control too.


----------



## UntilThen

I spend some time with the violectric v281 and a T1 in balanced mode at the Sydney meet. I like. Has the organic tone of tubes but you know what.

I rather have Elise with my T1 and my collection of tubes. Sounds better to me. That v281 is $2700 btw.


----------



## louisxiawei

untilthen said:


> I spend some time with the violectric v281 and a T1 in balanced mode at the Sydney meet. I like. Has the organic tone of tubes but you know what.
> 
> I rather have Elise with my T1 and my collection of tubes. Sounds better to me. *That v281 is $2700 btw.*


 
 LOL, a clear winner obviously.


----------



## UntilThen

louisxiawei said:


> LOL, a clear winner obviously.


 

 Louis, come to this thread. Most of us are there. It's the one tube per socket thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary


----------



## JazzVinyl

untilthen said:


> I spend some time with the violectric v281 and a T1 in balanced mode at the Sydney meet. I like. Has the organic tone of tubes but you know what.
> 
> I rather have Elise with my T1 and my collection of tubes. Sounds better to me. That v281 is $2700 btw.




Your *$2700.00* figure is incorrect.

I know, I know...facts don't matter.


----------



## UntilThen

jazzvinyl said:


> Your *$2700.00* figure is incorrect.
> 
> I know, I know...facts don't matter.


 

 Aussie dollars. It's just been discounted but the owner told me he paid $2700.
  
 Check out this site. My facts are never wrong.
  
 http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/violectric-audio-hpa-v281-balanced-headphonepre-amplifier?gclid=CjwKEAjwuo--BRDDws3x65LL7h8SJABEDuFRuy_ttmt-InOzx3z-GelgL4AS9HI3xOROtNvqszWlGxoCoOLw_wcB


----------



## DecentLevi

Noticed some of you mentioning 6 EL3N tube combos on the single tube thread (and you managed to evade penalty, LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Speaking of multi-tube combos, I would be very interested in a comparison of the 'Christmas Tree' combo to the best setups using the 'real' 6 tube adapter; the externally heated one. I guess nobody as of yet has compared these two setups - they may be somewhat duplicatory as these are both so similar, but that would be great is someone could ever do a comparison to see if either sounds better than the other.
  
 PS - I'm still the only one with a _true _Christmas Tree setup, because the original & best combo of this is actually with dual 6J5's being one straight-form and one 'Coke bottle' tube intermixed per channel along with the 6BL7 on each channel


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Noticed some of you mentioning 6 EL3N tube combos on the single tube thread (and you managed to evade penalty, LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What straight bottle 6J5 are you recommending as best synergy here? I don't know if I actually have any - maybe somewhere in the depths of a cupboard I think I may have one or two Russian ones ? Pinnacle.


----------



## richard89

Should I be worried about 6080WA tubes getting too hot? It seems the hotness of the metal base is affecting the Elise sensitivity. When I tap the base table where the Elise is sitting it makes a clanking noise in the headphones. It seems this could be a problem in the long run. I saw that socket savers should be used to prevent it getting too hot -- should I use these as well?


----------



## mordy

Hi r89,
  
 The 6080's run hot. Such a simple thing as a socket saver will act as an insulator and will make the amp considerably cooler. I use very inexpensive socket savers - around $3 each or less including shipping. In addition, the socket savers do just that - save the amp sockets from wear and tear.
  
 Ordered from this seller. Presently not offering 4 x octal socket saver, but if you contact them I am sure that they will make a listing.
  
 The quality is not top quality, but they do the job and are well worth the price.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-Vacuum-Tube-Saver-Socket-Testing-2pc-9pin-Fr-12AX7-2pc-8pin-Octal-DIY-/161154362118?hash=item25858c6b06mtu8UZmglaJtJtsA7sC6K9A


----------



## UntilThen

Hi @richard89  how's Faye Wong?  I've been listening a bit of Evon Low. Ever heard of her? 
  
 The 6080 are as mordy says - hot but I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's endorsed by Feliks Audio.
  
 Use it with or without adapters. Adapters will keep it cooler. I've both the black bakelite and gold ones.


----------



## richard89

Thanks mordy
  
 Hi UT, I haven't listened to her in a while, and have been listening to Andy Lau these past recent days, switching out the 5998's, 6080's, and 7236's with the EL3N's as drivers, it's a pretty great experience so far. I've never heard of Evon Low before but I'm glad you mentioned her, cause I like her!
  
 I'm just a little worried about how it gets the Elise sensitive UT -- because a light tap will send a noise ringing into the headphones, even if I tap the table I can hear it coming into the headphones.
  
 That being said -- now that I've got most of the drivers for Elise, can you guys recommend to me any drivers beside the EL3N without getting too expensive or needing to use adapters? I'm perfectly content with what I have, but I would like to explore! 
  
 Thanks guys


----------



## UntilThen

Don't rely on me to recommend anymore of those canto songs. I don't know anything about those. Stumbled on Evon by chance. 
  
 Drivers without adapter, cheap and good? 6SN7.  Price varies here. 
  
 I'll list a few cheaper ones yet still sounding good.
  
 Tung Sol 6SN7gt mouse ears.
 Sylvania 6SN7wgt with brown base.
 Sylvania 6SN7gtb chrome top.
  
 If you can spend a bit more, perhaps a pair of Ken Rad 6SN7gt VT231 black glass.
  
 7N7 are very nice too and cheaper but will require adapters.


----------



## richard89

Thanks UT, I'll do some more research in the thread when I get the chance to, too.


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> What straight bottle 6J5 are you recommending as best synergy here? I don't know if I actually have any - maybe somewhere in the depths of a cupboard I think I may have one or two Russian ones ? Pinnacle.


 
 My original (and current) 'Christmas Tree' setup that I found to have the best synergy included a Visseaux 6J5 (Coke bottle shaped) with a Selectron rebranded RCA 6J5 (straight form) on each side. I found four of the coke bottle 6J5's too lush / tubey, but this blend more sweet / organic. Sylvania 6J5's with the Visseaux sounded nearly identical but not quite the synergy as the Visseaux with RCA "Selectron"


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Thanks mordy
> 
> Hi UT, I haven't listened to her in a while, and have been listening to Andy Lau these past recent days, switching out the 5998's, 6080's, and 7236's with the EL3N's as drivers, it's a pretty great experience so far. I've never heard of Evon Low before but I'm glad you mentioned her, cause I like her!
> 
> ...


 
  
 The noise when you tap the table is likely due to microphony in the tube and not to do with Elise becoming more sensitive due to heating up. It could be from a driver or power tube. Having said that socket savers are still good if you want to keep things cooler.
  
 My 6080's and 7236's are prone to 'ring' when you tap them or tap Elise.  During normal play this doesn't affect the sound quality or damage the amp, though I have one or two tubes that can even pick up the sound of me touching the vol knob. It's not an Elise issue as they are the same in other amps too.
  
 I find the smaller tubes like 6DJ8 and 6SN7 less prone to this ringing microphony than 6AS7 and C3g tubes, and if it's actually audible while listening, when you are not touching any part of your equipment,  you may have to change the offending tube.
  
 Also, certain combinations of tubes and headphones will pick up this sound to a different degree, so some people won't be as affected as others by a microphonic tube. 
  
 Finally, increasing microphony in a tube that didn't previously suffer microphony can be a sign the tube is beginning to fail.


----------



## HOWIE13

richard89 said:


> Thanks mordy
> 
> Hi UT, I haven't listened to her in a while, and have been listening to Andy Lau these past recent days, switching out the 5998's, 6080's, and 7236's with the EL3N's as drivers, it's a pretty great experience so far. I've never heard of Evon Low before but I'm glad you mentioned her, cause I like her!
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you have any 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes in your collection I find they sound very good as drivers in Elise. Not the vast sound-stage of the more commonly recommended tubes, but lots of sweet inner detail. Depends, as ever, on the tube as well.
  
 Blissfully, they are also rarely microphonic.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> My original (and current) 'Christmas Tree' setup that I found to have the best synergy included a Visseaux 6J5 (Coke bottle shaped) with a Selectron rebranded RCA 6J5 (straight form) on each side. I found four of the coke bottle 6J5's too lush / tubey, but this blend more sweet / organic. Sylvania 6J5's with the Visseaux sounded nearly identical but not quite the synergy as the Visseaux with RCA "Selectron"


 
 Thanks for that helpful info, will try and find my Pinnacles.  Do I remember correctly, did you also try a 6J5 combined with a 6SN7 on the same adapter at one time? Did that work out or is it better to stick to two 6J5's, whatever their shape and size?


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> Thanks for that helpful info, will try and find my Pinnacles.  Do I remember correctly, did you also try a 6J5 combined with a 6SN7 on the same adapter at one time? Did that work out or is it better to stick to two 6J5's, whatever their shape and size?


 
  
 No problemo, here's a refresher: the 6J5 adapter is essentially to convert one dual triode tube (mainly 6SN7) into two single triode tubes; hence two 6J5 are compatible with it but not 6SN7 which is dual triode. On the 6BL7  to 6AS7 adapter under it which houses the dual 6J5 adapter one on socket, either a single 6BL7 or a 6SN7 is compatible on its' other slot. I have tried a 6SN7 + dual 6J5's originally and something sounded thin / off kilter IIRC.
  
 However this brings me to my next best setup which is 6BL7 + 6SN7 as powers, and 6SN7 drivers (dual powers and single drivers), which was covered a while back. This setup is snappy, focused and tightly articulated making it more suitable for electronic music and the likes of synth-heavy pop.


----------



## Spork67

A lot of you  like the Mullard 6080 tubes.
 Is there any love for the Phillips 6080 WC?
 Are they compatible with Elise?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> No problemo, here's a refresher: the 6J5 adapter is essentially to convert one dual triode tube (mainly 6SN7) into two single triode tubes; hence two 6J5 are compatible with it but not 6SN7 which is dual triode. On the 6BL7  to 6AS7 adapter under it which houses the dual 6J5 adapter one on socket, either a single 6BL7 or a 6SN7 is compatible on its' other slot. I have tried a 6SN7 + dual 6J5's originally and something sounded thin / off kilter IIRC.
> 
> However this brings me to my next best setup which is 6BL7 + 6SN7 as powers, and 6SN7 drivers (dual powers and single drivers), which was covered a while back. This setup is snappy, focused and tightly articulated making it more suitable for electronic music and the likes of synth-heavy pop.


 
 Got you- cheers.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'll try that.


----------



## HOWIE13

spork67 said:


> A lot of you  like the Mullard 6080 tubes.
> Is there any love for the Phillips 6080 WC?
> Are they compatible with Elise?


 
  
 Yes they are compatible and they sound very nice. A bit smoother than T-S 6080 but with the same capacious sound stage and good sweet detail. They are not as detailed as the Mullards, but have a slightly wider sound-stage to my ears. Actually all three are very good in Elise. They run hot so don't burn yourself touching the metal bass when you remove them, as I did.
  
 I read that Philips had taken over the Sylvania plant when these were made and they are probably similar to Sylvania tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

@DecentLevi
  
 I tried your recent suggestions out using EL3N's and then Sylvania 6SN7WGT as drivers.
  
 Retaining the 6BL7's, firstly substituted the twin 6J5's for GE 6SN7GTA's and sounded very good-solid and more weighty sound compared to the twin 6J5's but not as airy and slightly narrower sound-stage, though still relatively wide.
  
 Next I substituted the GE's with RCA 6F8G's, like Frankenstein lurking in a Christmas tree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and there was more treble which surprised me, and I thought sounded a bit thin-so not a good choice in my system as set up at present. It does work though if you like lots of treble, and it sounds happy.
  
  
 Then I tried the original Christmas tree set-up substituting one of the Visseaux coke bottle 6J5's with a straight bottle RCA 6J5. This was a lot warmer than with the Visseaux 6J5 and very pleasant though not as detailed or dynamic.
  
 I can see it's possible to readily change the character, maybe call it species, of the Christmas Tree by changing one of the 6J5's. I remember the RCA's were warm tubes when I tried them in Ember many moons ago..


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


>


 
 Now I know why I started the other thread!!! Just kidding)))) Very impressive looking but it kind of gives me vertigo


----------



## UntilThen

Inspiration from this?


----------



## UntilThen

Guys you realize you're going to destroy your Elise piling adapters that way ? Don't believe it? Just keep doing that. I'm sure I'll hear of a damage amp pretty soon.


----------



## Suuup

untilthen said:


> Guys you realize you're going to destroy your Elise piling adapters that way ? Don't believe it? Just keep doing that. I'm sure I'll hear of a damage amp pretty soon.


 
 Agree with this. Didn't DL already break his?


----------



## HOWIE13

suuup said:


> Agree with this. Didn't DL already break his?


 
 He did have a problem but I don't think it was related to his tubes-but no doubt he may supply the details.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> Now I know why I started the other thread!!! Just kidding)))) Very impressive looking but it kind of gives me vertigo


 
  
 Maybe I'm okay with it because I close my eyes when listening, (it's true I do- no kidding).


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Inspiration from this?


 
  
 Looks like could be Scotland anyway.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Guys you realize you're going to destroy your Elise piling adapters that way ? Don't believe it? Just keep doing that. I'm sure I'll hear of a damage amp pretty soon.


 
  
 I roll tubes so often that no sooner is the Christmas tree planted it gets taken down for another set of tubes.
 It sounds very good though, as good as 5998's, even bigger sound-stage. Maybe I'll be able to compare with one of those GEC's one day..


----------



## pctazhp

I really don't have a kangaroo in this race. I don't know if using stacked adapters is dangerous or not. And I don't personally care if people want to figure out how to adapt strings of Christmas tree lights to the Elise sockets and drape them on real or artificial Christmas trees. I do think it is a good idea to keep discussion of the two approaches (which seems not necessarily mutually exclusive for those who do use stacked adapters) in separate threads. Which is why I started the other thread.
  
 Having said that, it is my understanding that, with full disclosure of what @DecentLevi had done, FA voluntarily agreed to replace his Elise. I have no idea whether he or FA really know what caused the failure.But I guess DL can speak for himself.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> I really don't have a kangaroo in this race. I don't know if using stacked adapters is dangerous or not. And I don't personally care if people want to figure out how to adapt strings of Christmas tree lights to the Elise sockets and drape them on real or artificial Christmas trees. I do think it is a good idea to keep discussion of the two approaches (which seems not necessarily mutually exclusive for those who do use stacked adapters) in separate threads. Which is why I started the other thread.
> 
> Having said that, it is my understanding that, with full disclosure of what @DecentLevi had done, FA voluntarily agreed to replace his Elise. I have no idea whether he or FA really know what caused the failure.But I guess DL can speak for himself.


 
  
 Absolutely fair and correct, which is why I posted the Christmas tree on this thread and my 6 pack on the new thread as there has been recent positive discussion about it over there.


----------



## richdytch

I've been a little bit worried about the future of our collective future - as a community - with FA. I have never been one for very whacky tube rolling (the maddest thing I've tried is EL3N as drivers) but in a recent exchange with Michal at FA he quite sternly reminded me that EL3N is not within the conditions of the warranty. Which I knew. 

I assured him that I no longer used them, but have since returned to using EL3N with great success, and want to carry on. I for one acknowledge this is my risk and would be happy to foot the bill in the unlikely (as far as we know so far) case of this practice causing any damage to the amp.

But my main point of concern is that too much adventurous tube rolling and too many repair-returns related to it, might make FA more cautious about interacting with the Headfi community as fully as they could, and also make them less likely to come up with similarly wonderful (or better) devices in the future.

My concerns might just be rooted in my own paranoia, or might be well founded. The truth usually lies somewhere in between. 

Not wishing to provoke any debate, but don't mind if I do. I just love the fact that amplification of such quality and character is available at this kind of price. It's a trend I'd like to see continue.


----------



## pctazhp

richdytch said:


> I've been a little bit worried about the future of our collective future - as a community - with FA. I have never been one for very whacky tube rolling (the maddest thing I've tried is EL3N as drivers) but in a recent exchange with Michal at FA he quite sternly reminded me that EL3N is not within the conditions of the warranty. Which I knew.
> 
> I assured him that I no longer used them, but have since returned to using EL3N with great success, and want to carry on. I for one acknowledge this is my risk and would be happy to foot the bill in the unlikely (as far as we know so far) case of this practice causing any damage to the amp.
> 
> ...


 
 I certainly understand your concerns. I thought someone else had talked to FA and was told there's no problem using the EL3Ns. But I can't be sure. I can't even remember what I had for breakfast (or if I even had it) any more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For me, I have been using them for months without any problem. I know others also have used them extensively without problem. I have no concern about using them, but if I ever did have any problem with the amp I would certainly tell FA what tubes I've used. If I have to pay for the repair, then so be it. I'm sure it would pale in comparison to what I have already spent of my collection of tubes.


----------



## richdytch

have just amended a couple of my daft errors in that post. it's hard writing on my phone


----------



## connieflyer

Been there done that,tiny keys fat fingers!


----------



## hypnos1

richdytch said:


> I've been a little bit worried about the future of our collective future - as a community - with FA. I have never been one for very whacky tube rolling (the maddest thing I've tried is EL3N as drivers) but in a recent exchange with Michal at FA he quite sternly reminded me that EL3N is not within the conditions of the warranty. Which I knew.
> 
> I assured him that I no longer used them, but have since returned to using EL3N with great success, and want to carry on. I for one acknowledge this is my risk and would be happy to foot the bill in the unlikely (as far as we know so far) case of this practice causing any damage to the amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Y'know richdytch, although Lukasz has been incredibly patient/understanding of our enterprising(?!) experimentation, there must certainly be a fair degree of _dis_content within the FA team nonetheless...so your words are striking the right note IMHO...
  
 Re.the EL3N...a good many folks have now put a good many hours on their Elises with this tube, with nothing untoward at all, AFAIK. The fact they run MUCH cooler than most other drivers - especially the likes of the ECC31, for example! - is probably a beneficial thing also LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm sure they won't in fact be deterred from taking Elise forward - in _some_ direction, or other!...I do also hope this is the case...


----------



## HOWIE13

@richdytch
  
 If doing lots of repairs was detracting from making new equipment or preventing new developments then there might be a problem, but is that the case?
 I guess you would have to ask FA if numerous repairs were a problem. I rather doubt it as I'm only aware of a very occasional problem amp on these threads, and we are the adventurous ones
  
 As long as people are honest and tell FA which tubes/ adapters they use then FA would charge us for repairs and postage if we were to blame so won't lose financially.


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Y'know richdytch, although Lukasz has been incredibly patient/understanding of our enterprising(?!) experimentation, there must certainly be a fair degree of _dis_content within the FA team nonetheless...so your words are striking the right note IMHO...
> 
> Re.the EL3N...a good many folks have now put a good many hours on their Elises with this tube, with nothing untoward at all, AFAIK. The fact they run MUCH cooler than most other drivers - especially the likes of the ECC31, for example! - is probably a beneficial thing also LOL!
> 
> ...


 
 I'm surprised the FA team is discontent.
  
 We are forever eulogising about how wonderful Elise is and how well FA amps ( I've praised Espressivo too on this thread) can adapt to different musical types and personal preferences. Some threads are quite critical of their equipment- not here, and with good reason, of course, FA is a great company.
  
 If I were FA I would be delighted with this thread. It's the best advertising a manufacturer can get, and it's free.
  
 My only other experience of a small tube amp manufacturer is G1217 and they positively encourage exploration.  No such worries and concerns on the G1217 threads.


----------



## richdytch

@hypnosis @Howie As I say, there might be an element of paranoia in my ramblings. And sure, we are all fine at the moment. But my knowledge of electronics runs out fairly quickly after the most basic principles, but I sometimes wonder about the effect over years, on components, of conditions slightly different to those for which they were intended. 

Needless to say, all the tube rolling here has contributed a lot of knowledge and many hours of happy listening.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> @hypnosis @Howie As I say, there might be an element of paranoia in my ramblings. And sure, we are all fine at the moment. But my knowledge of electronics runs out fairly quickly after the most basic principles, but I sometimes wonder about the effect over years, on components, of conditions slightly different to those for which they were intended.
> 
> Needless to say, all the tube rolling here has contributed a lot of knowledge and many hours of happy listening.


 
  
 That's the thing-your last sentence says it all.
  
 We only live once and for some of us, probably me anyway, we will be outlived by Elise. So enjoy.
  
 For younger head-fiers, technology moves on and  in 10 years time you will probably be ready for a new amp anyway.


----------



## UntilThen

So much dissections on the topic of multi adapters. There's a danger to using multi adapters upon multi adapters. You may think it's safe just to add up all the tubes amperes and if they are below the threshold, it's safe. However, can you know for certain if piling a multi adapter upon another, you are still within the realm of simple equations?
  
 With the 6xEL3Ns, I checked with Lukasz. I send him a description of what I intended to do. He showed it to Senior Feliks. Henryk took a look and stop what he was doing. He started pacing to the end wall, deep in thoughts. Then walk back to my email and have a good look again.... and said 'Will work with the correct adapters'. These are paraphrase words from Lukasz to me. However he added, 'You do so at your own risk' ... with a big smiley. It was then I went ahead and tried the 6xEL3N. (Prior to this, Glenn did confirm that it will work in Elise. However I wanted to hear from FA themselves.) When it did work and the first listen was astonishing, I send Lukasz a photo. I remember his reaction. He goes WOW and said Feliks Audio Team sends their congratulations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There you go. The real Mona Lisa.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> There you go. The real Mona Lisa.


 
 You asked for it. You got it


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> You asked for it. You got it


 
  
 Are you the real Mona Lisa or just a lonely cold work of art.


----------



## AltCtrl

Are the upgraded premium drivers option on their website worth it? I'm about to pull the trigger.


----------



## UntilThen

altctrl said:


> Are the upgraded premium drivers option on their website worth it? I'm about to pull the trigger.


 
 No. Pull the trigger on Elise in standard configuration and go from there. You will be thrilled. Then get C3G and EL3N as drivers later. They will light up the night skies.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Are you the real Mona Lisa or just a lonely cold work of art.


 
 I'm the Real McCoy


----------



## AltCtrl

untilthen said:


> No. Pull the trigger on Elise in standard configuration and go from there. You will be thrilled. Then get C3G and EL3N as drivers later. They will light up the night skies.


 
 Great thanks. I know nothing about tubes either and I'm going to do some rolling for my Beyer DT880/990's, and *future purchase* Senn HD650 and Beyer T1. Any suggestions?


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> So much dissections on the topic of multi adapters. There's a danger to using multi adapters upon multi adapters. You may think it's safe just to add up all the tubes amperes and if they are below the threshold, it's safe. However, can you know for certain if piling a multi adapter upon another, you are still within the realm of simple equations?
> 
> With the 6xEL3Ns, I checked with Lukasz. I send him a description of what I intended to do. He showed it to Senior Feliks. Henryk took a look and stop what he was doing. He started pacing to the end wall, deep in thoughts. Then walk back to my email and have a good look again.... and said 'Will work with the correct adapters'. These are paraphrase words from Lukasz to me. However he added, 'You do so at your own risk' ... with a big smiley. It was then I went ahead and tried the 6xEL3N. (Prior to this, Glenn did confirm that it will work in Elise. However I wanted to hear from FA themselves.) When it did work and the first listen was astonishing, I send Lukasz a photo. I remember his reaction. He goes WOW and said Feliks Audio Team sends their congratulations.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've been playing my new 6 pack now for several hours and am truly amazed. This isn't evolution-it's revolution, in the best possible way.
  
 It's the best sounding combo to date I've heard.
  
 I started to play a Chopin CD of 8 tracks. I got to the end of the first and just had to play it over and over again-about eight times. Stunning sound. I'm so hyped up I don't think I'll be going to bed tonight. I'll share some Chopin with you all- Chopin is good for relaxing in the evening, maybe it will calm me down.


----------



## UntilThen

altctrl said:


> Great thanks. I know nothing about tubes either and I'm going to do some rolling for my Beyer DT880/990's, and *future purchase* Senn HD650 and Beyer T1. Any suggestions?


 

 All those headphones are perfect with Elise. It will be an enjoyable experience.
  
 These 2 combos are quite contrasting but I love them with HD650 and T1, as well as HE560.
  

Siemens C3G and Tung Sol 5998
Philips Miniwatt EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G or Tung Sol 7236.
  
 When you get adventurous, try the real Mona Lisa. You will become like @HOWIE13 , playing Chopin over and over again.


----------



## pctazhp

I've been trying to think of one of my customary stupid comments for posting this next video. But I can't and I love it so much I'm just going to post it.
  
 Anyway, I've probably exceeded my video quota for the day, so I'm just going to float on down the river for the rest of the day.


----------



## oshipao

pctazhp said:


> I'm the Real McCoy




Hey pctazhp!

This is what I was listening to when I attended my middleschool discos  Catchy nonetheless!


----------



## HOWIE13

altctrl said:


> Great thanks. I know nothing about tubes either and I'm going to do some rolling for my Beyer DT880/990's, and *future purchase* Senn HD650 and Beyer T1. Any suggestions?


 
  
 I've got both the Beyers and they are great with Elise. Very different cans, and between the two you will easily appreciate Elise's full range of tube rolling capabilities. I have the HD650 too and the 6 pack EL3N's suit it perfectly. No veil with Elise!
  
 6 pack suits the Beyers too but I find them very easy to please. You can take just about any of the combinations discussed on these forums and they will sound excellent. 
 You will be the only person to judge what's best for you though.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> All those headphones are perfect with Elise. It will be an enjoyable experience.
> 
> These 2 combos are quite contrasting but I love them with HD650 and T1, as well as HE560.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ..and over and over and over and over................


----------



## AltCtrl

untilthen said:


> All those headphones are perfect with Elise. It will be an enjoyable experience.
> 
> These 2 combos are quite contrasting but I love them with HD650 and T1, as well as HE560.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestions. So is there compatibility issues with certain power and driver tubes? I'll probably just get these combo's and be done with it. I'm pretty excited.


----------



## UntilThen

These drivers will work with the power tubes. You can use them in any combinations. I've listed them here as I feel they deserve special mention. Power tubes suggested are still available. Some more pricey than others. There are better power tubes but they are quite rare and very expensive. Such as GEC 6AS7G, Bendix 6080WB and GEC 6080WB. Also Western Electric 421A. I don't think you need to go that high end 'in price' unless money is no issue.
  
 There are a lot of 6SN7s that sounds amazing but the better ones are very rare now and very pricey. Such as Tung Sol 6SN7gt round black plates, Sylvania 6SN7W. I have listed Sylvania 6SN7wgt which sounds good and much cheaper - at below $100 a pair.
  
 I did not list any Visseaux, Mazda or Fivre 6N7g as there are hardly any left on eBay. These drivers sound very good too.
  
 Any of the below combination will be a good start and probably all you need.
  

*Drivers**Powers*C3GTung Sol 5998EL3NTung Sol 7236ECC31Chatham 6AS7GSylvania 6SN7wgtMullard 6080
  
  
 ps... not forgetting 6xEL3Ns


----------



## UntilThen

@AltCtrl I take it you've placed your order of Elise? 
  
 Congrats. Welcome to the club. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## AltCtrl

untilthen said:


> @AltCtrl I take it you've placed your order of Elise?
> 
> Congrats. Welcome to the club. You won't be disappointed.


 
 Yeah I just ordered, how long does it take to normally get it in the states? This is my first tube amp and I've heard good things so I just decided to end game it.
  
 Excited to


----------



## UntilThen

FA usually quote a 8 weeks delivery time but be prepared for 10 to 12 weeks. However we have some who have received theirs within a short time frame recently. 
  
 Elise sounds very good with those high impedance dynamic headphones. Even planar magnetics as shared and loved by many here. It has that liquid, moist tone that is fast and dynamic. 10 months on I'm still loving it. It will probably be the only tube amp you need.


----------



## AltCtrl

Hope its worth the wait. They must be hand crafting them to perfection.


----------



## connieflyer

they do a really great job, I don't think you will be disappointed. Lot of optionswith different tubes, my advice is go slow and listen to it for a bit before you get to deep in tube rolling, plenty of time for that. Get to know what you like about it and which direction you want to take it. Welcome aboard!


----------



## Spork67

altctrl said:


> Yeah I just ordered, how long does it take to normally get it in the states? This is my first tube amp and I've heard good things so I just decided to end game it.
> 
> Excited to


 
 Mine took under a month from order to delivery, all the way to Tasmania.
 Hopefully your wait will be short also.


----------



## HOWIE13

If a new owner really wants to stick to one tube arrangement for a while the best advice I could give would be to avoid reading this thread.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Only joking, but the enthusiasm, support, fun and friendliness of this thread is very infectious and before you know it you could be drawn into tube-land forever, never to return-and I'm loving it.


----------



## HOWIE13

altctrl said:


> Yeah I just ordered, how long does it take to normally get it in the states? This is my first tube amp and I've heard good things so I just decided to end game it.
> 
> Excited to


 
  
 Welcome indeed!
  
 I'm also relatively new to Eliseland and found the advice from those who have had longer experience with rolling here invaluable.
  
 Those combinations UT advised work very well and in answer to your question as to combinations of tubes, well yes, some combinations work better than others, but again your own ears will guide you. 
  
 When Elise comes give the amp several days to 'burn in', for want of a better term, and some tubes need several hours, even days, (EL3N's even longer) to reach their best too, others don't seem to. Unlike with SS amps, some tubes can sound a bit noisy and 'clinky' when first powered up. This noise goes after a few minutes once the tube reaches its working temperature and is perfectly normal.
  
 One important golden rule to always consider when rolling is that the current draw from all four of Elise's tube sockets _in total _should not exceed 6.8A. That's a generous current but it can soon add up if you are over-enthusiastic.


----------



## HOWIE13

Have been enjoying rolling drivers with 4 EL3N's as powers. The best results for me, together with the 6 pack combination, has been with RCA 6F8G's and K-R VT231's.
  
 Here's the 6F8G's. There's a picture of the VT231's on the other thread, #1503, p101.


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Have been enjoying rolling drivers with 4 EL3N's as powers. The best results for me, together with the 6 pack combination, has been with RCA 6F8G's and K-R VT231's.
> 
> Here's the 6F8G's. There's a picture of the VT231's on the other thread, #1503, p101.




Very nice. I'd really love to work out why 2x el3n as power tubes for me is totally silent, while 4 is hideously noisy.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Very nice. I'd really love to work out why 2x el3n as power tubes for me is totally silent, while 4 is hideously noisy.


 
  
 Thanks rich.
  
 Is it possible just one or maybe two of your tubes are 'hummy'. You would just need to swap them around a bit in the 4 sockets to find out.


----------



## Karlsand

Hi All,

I have an Elise amp incoming and like many else sourcing tubes while inpatiently waiting. I have a noob question, what is the dual EL3N tube adapter that fits into the power tube sockets? Can someone provide a link? 

I haven't yet decided but I might at some point go for the 6 pack of EL3N since good power tubes seems to be crazy expensive these days.


Br, Karl


----------



## HOWIE13

karlsand said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have an Elise amp incoming and like many else sourcing tubes while inpatiently waiting. I have a noob question, what is the dual EL3N tube adapter that fits into the power tube sockets? Can someone provide a link?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome- you have made an excellent choice with Elise. Congratulations!
  
 Here's the link for the single tube adapter:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
  
  
  
 and here's the link for the dual adapter:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191769639044?hash=item2ca65c7884:g:-W4AAOSw5IJWggQB


----------



## Karlsand

Ah, I did not realize the 6sn7 fits into the power tube socket!

Thanks Howie!


----------



## HOWIE13

karlsand said:


> Ah, I did not realize the 6sn7 fits into the power tube socket!
> 
> Thanks Howie!


 
  
 Yes that's right, the driver and power sockets are both similar octal sockets.


----------



## UntilThen

The world's a better place with @HOWIE13 around. I can retire now.
  
 Congrats @Karlsand and welcome to the club. What headphone are you using with Elise?


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> The world's a better place with @HOWIE13 around. I can retire now.
> 
> Congrats @Karlsand and welcome to the club. What headphone are you using with Elise?


 
  
 That's a heavy responsibility- actually impossible


----------



## Karlsand

I have not yet received it but I'll use HD600, dt-880 600ohm and T1g2. 

Pretty excited, time is long for one who is waiting!

/Karl


----------



## HOWIE13

karlsand said:


> I have not yet received it but I'll use HD600, dt-880 600ohm and T1g2.
> 
> Pretty excited, time is long for one who is waiting!
> 
> /Karl


 
  
 Nice cans, Karl. I wish I had a T1, there's lots of posts about how good they are with Elise. HD800/800S are two other favourites I'm yearning after.
  
 I do have the HD600 and the 250 ohm version of the Beyer and they are both excellent sounding with Elise. Actually, I had just posted earlier how Elise is the first amp I've used that's been able to really make me appreciate the quality of the DT880.


----------



## UntilThen

karlsand said:


> I have not yet received it but I'll use HD600, dt-880 600ohm and T1g2.
> 
> Pretty excited, time is long for one who is waiting!
> 
> /Karl


 

 Good choice of headphones for Elise. You'll be thrilled no doubt.


----------



## DecentLevi

@Karlsand welcome to the Elise club! It along with its' tubes get better with use, so be patient with burn-in. Though I guess the jury's still out whether or not leaving it on overnight for burn-in is recommended.
  
 Most action is happening on the other Elise thread nowdays - similar audiophile topics but more geared toward simpler tube setups... Speaking of such, I wonder if it's time for @hypnos1 to update this thread title as to not confuse people which thread is newer?


----------



## HOWIE13

Having the two threads is a great idea, and there's an even earlier one which this one superceded- so popular is Elise. 
  
 I watch both the current active threads as you never know what's going to crop up each day, but there is obviously crossover.
  
 There is also the question of where to post 'non-tubey' comments.
  
 For instance, I'm just auditioning Mojo and it mates excellently well with Elise-but which thread should I post that information on?
  
 Oh silly me-I've just done it.


----------



## hypnos1

altctrl said:


> Hope its worth the wait. They must be hand crafting them to perfection.


 
  
 Well worth the wait AC...which appears to be a good bit shorter than some have had in the past! Elise is indeed _very_ nicely crafted...and _sounds_ great too LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Joy will soon be yours, to be sure. Plenty of info here on tubes - and other things! - plus of course over at the 'other' thread (ostensibly for those who prefer "one tube per socket" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...) : http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-
  
 Best wishes for your journey in "Elise land"...


karlsand said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have an Elise amp incoming and like many else sourcing tubes while inpatiently waiting. I have a noob question, what is the dual EL3N tube adapter that fits into the power tube sockets? Can someone provide a link?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to you also, K...good choice have you made - you won't regret it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As mentioned above, plenty of wise words here - and t'other thread - to help you in your journey. Take things steadily, give Elise and tubes plenty of time to "settle in", but most importantly of all...ENJOY!!!...Cheers!...
  
 ps. And don't forget to keep us all up to date with your eventual findings...same goes for you, Karlsand! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..BFN...


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> @Karlsand welcome to the Elise club! It along with its' tubes get better with use, so be patient with burn-in. Though I guess the jury's still out whether or not leaving it on overnight for burn-in is recommended.
> 
> Most action is happening on the other Elise thread nowdays - similar audiophile topics but more geared toward simpler tube setups... Speaking of such, I wonder if it's time for @hypnos1 to update this thread title as to not confuse people which thread is newer?


 
 DL:  To me "newer" is like age - just a state of mind. I always feel younger on those days when I can't remember how old I am.


----------



## AltCtrl

Siemens C3G and Tung Sol 5998
 Philips Miniwatt EL3N and Tung Sol 7236
  
 Where do I buy these tubes? They're hard to find.


----------



## DecentLevi

Mostly we buy on eBay, and you can also search for your used hi-fi gear on HifiShark.com which is like a search engine of a handfull of sources for this


----------



## MusclePharm

Hey guys, how have you been?! 

It's been a year now without my elise (My DAC got corrupted), but yesterday I received a new one at home and what a joy it was to listen to my beauty again. 

However I noticed that there's always some background noise... It's not too loud to be annoying nor too low to be um noticed, It simply comes and goes, very similar to that sound of when you turn on a microwave.
I hope to be wrong, but I'm afraid this has something to do with my tubes... 

Or perhaps this is a normal behavior with tube amps?


----------



## HOWIE13

musclepharm said:


> Hey guys, how have you been?!
> 
> It's been a year now without my elise (My DAC got corrupted), but yesterday I received a new one at home and what a joy it was to listen to my beauty again.
> 
> ...


 
 If the problem occurs with all your tubes it's unlikely to be an individual tube problem. Maybe outside interference. 
 What happened to your DAC?
 Was the sound heard before your DAC broke?


----------



## MusclePharm

howie13 said:


> If the problem occurs with all your tubes it's unlikely to be a tube problem. Maybe outside interference.
> What happened to your DAC?
> Was the sound heard before your DAC broke?


 

 I had a Schiit Modi 2, it got somehow corrupted when I removed the usb cable from my notebook. I sent it to repair though, but when it arrived my country, customs decided to apply me a charge that was almost the value I paid for the DAC (even though I had proofs it was sent to repair and it was well explicit in the box and in the paperwork itself), so I let them keep it, I was going to get a lawyer but I didn't have the time nor it was worth my patience, so I let it be.
  
 This was happening way before, even before my previous DAC broke. I recently changed of place and I may be wrong, but I don't believe it to be an interference issue...
  
  
 The thing is, I don't have that many tubes, I sold some and the others I have no clue where they are to be honest, so I was only asking if these background noises were somehow a "normal" behaviour on tube amps, or they are just plain silent.


----------



## HOWIE13

musclepharm said:


> I had a Schiit Modi 2, it got somehow corrupted when I removed the usb cable from my notebook. I sent it to repair though, but when it arrived my country, customs decided to apply me a charge that was almost the value I paid for the DAC (even though I had proofs it was sent to repair and it was well explicit in the box and in the paperwork itself), so I let them keep it, I was going to get a lawyer but I didn't have the time nor it was worth my patience, so I let it be.
> 
> This was happening way before, even before my previous DAC broke. I recently changed of place and I may be wrong, but I don't believe it to be an interference issue...
> 
> ...


 
 No, not normal to get that sound. It would be worth trying different tubes if you think it's not interference. Have you never used your Elise before with those tubes?


----------



## hypnos1

musclepharm said:


> Hey guys, how have you been?!
> 
> It's been a year now without my elise (My DAC got corrupted), but yesterday I received a new one at home and what a joy it was to listen to my beauty again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good to hear from you again MP...a year without Elise?...how on Earth have you managed to survive such deprivation lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Afraid most of the action is now over at the "Impressions" thread started by @pctazhp a while back, when things began to get a bit out of hand with "extreme", multi-adapter tube rolling. Said thread is for more restrained experimentation, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I see you don't have many tubes now, but did you manage to test with different ones at all back then?
  
 Have you tried different _sources_, to eliminate this area?...and different headphones?
  
 You say you don't think it's interference related, but do you always have a mobile 'phone nearby, for instance?...or the same electronic items in different places, such as 'fridge etc.?
  
 Basically, you shouldn't really be getting such noise from Elise, so something, somewhere, needs tracing it would appear...keep eliminating and letting us know how things go...


----------



## MusclePharm

howie13 said:


> No, not normal to get that sound. It would be worth trying different tubes if you think it's not interference. Have you never used your Elise before with those tubes?


 

  I have always used these tubes, I just though that with some burn-in time they would eventually disappear. But I guess I have more than 100 hour on each of them by now.
 Is there a general consensus on which tubes would sound the best?
  
 My current tubes are:
 Power: 2x TungSol 6080WB
 Driver: Siemens c3gS + ECC 31


----------



## MusclePharm

hypnos1 said:


> Good to hear from you again MP...a year without Elise?...how on Earth have you managed to survive such deprivation lol?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know right? I actually think my girlfriend was jealous of my Elise considering how much I complained!
  
 I did not test it before, I was so eager to try the Elise's that I bought my tubes even before receiving it, so I just jumped all that, but I guess I still have the default tubes somewhere, I just need a whole month on vacations to be able to find them...
  
 I use my headphones on other sources, no problem there, unfortunately it's something in the Amp, and it is almost certain to be the tubes... lucky me!
  
 Only thing I have near is my computer, nothing else.
  
  
 I see I will have to jump on this headache trip and trace the issue to the very last bit of every unpleasant decibel.


----------



## HOWIE13

musclepharm said:


> I know right? I actually think my girlfriend was jealous of my Elise considering how much I complained!
> 
> I did not test it before, I was so eager to try the Elise's that I bought my tubes even before receiving it, so I just jumped all that, but I guess I still have the default tubes somewhere, I just need a whole month on vacations to be able to find them...
> 
> ...


 
 I don't know that c3gS tube. Is it the exact same as a c3g?
 Anyway, I would do as H1 suggests as I still suspect it could be outside interference.
 However, if you could find those stock tubes you would at least be able to rule out, or confirm, a tube problem


----------



## hypnos1

musclepharm said:


> I have always used these tubes, I just though that with some burn-in time they would eventually disappear. But I guess I have more than 100 hour on each of them by now.
> Is there a general consensus on which tubes would sound the best?
> 
> My current tubes are:
> ...


 
  
 Hi again MP.
  
 Is that _*two*_ C3gS, and ECC31s, or _*one*_ of each mixed? If the latter, and this is all you've ever tried, that may possibly be the cause - poor mix, perhaps. You really do need to try a complete set of different tubes, just to be sure lol!...unless something else jumps at you beforehand...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## MusclePharm

Ok guys, new update.
  
 It seems I had actually saved the stock tubes in a box. I just tested the stock power tubes and the driver tubes, and same background noise. This noise is only noticeable when nothing else is playing though, but still...
  
 I also disconnected the RCA cables from the DAC and the noise is still there... Will try to place the amp somewhere else, and see if it is indeed outside interference like HOWIE13 mentioned.


----------



## nojdrof

Hey all, it's been awhile. I attended RMAF and had the opportunity to listen to many headphones. I really liked the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 and the HD 800 I know the T1's work well with the Elise any thoughts on how the HD 800 sound with this amp? Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

nojdrof said:


> Hey all, it's been awhile. I attended RMAF and had the opportunity to listen to many headphones. I really liked the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 and the HD 800 I know the T1's work well with the Elise any thoughts on how the HD 800 sound with this amp? Thanks


 
  
 Welcome back nojdrof...you probably know by now my own particular love for the T1s - @connieflyer loves his 800 and @pctazhp loves his 800S...for starters...Decisions, decisions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...(You can't really go wrong with any of these - comes down to personal preference in the end lol!).


----------



## nojdrof

Hey all, another question. I have my Elise amp and love it but want Balanced Headphone Drive. Is it possible to send it back and have it added? And what's the cost?

Thanks


----------



## Oskari

nojdrof said:


> Hey all, another question. I have my Elise amp and love it but want Balanced Headphone Drive. Is it possible to send it back and have it added? And what's the cost?
> 
> Thanks




I don't see how that could happen, and frankly I don't see why that should happen.


----------



## pctazhp

nojdrof said:


> Hey all, another question. I have my Elise amp and love it but want Balanced Headphone Drive. Is it possible to send it back and have it added? And what's the cost?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Sorry. That isn't possible. Elise is single ended from input to output. But I'm curious as to what benefit you think you would derive by driving a headphone in balanced mode. Elise already has sufficient power to drive most headphones. And its imaging capability has been widely praised, so it probably already has very low cross talk.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yup that's totally not possible to have (true) balanced mode 'added on' to any component; as balanced topology is essentially a schematic that must have separate components for R/L channels from the input all the way to the output section - although I presume a tech expert may be able to internally modify their Elise, as it does seem to have at least partially balanced circuitry.
  
 OTOH, If all you need is an adapter to use your balanced headphones on the Elise, then let us know which type of balanced cable yours is and how many pins it has, and we can recommend the correct balanced to SE adapter. I'm currently using one with a pair of my 4-pin XLR balanced headphones and it sounds fantastic on the Elise.
  
 All of us have migrated over to the newest Elise thread, and there are some awesome developments / discoveries in progress there right now. The link is here


----------



## DecentLevi

Also for anyone who may have missed it, here's my big realization lately:


decentlevi said:


> Yup, Lukasz confirmed today that the 6H13C tubes I've been raving about are indeed the same as stock tubes. I guess I've come 'full circle' - or more of a _dysfunctional_ circle anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Quinto

I decided to sell my V200 and buy an Elise for my beloved HD650 but I'm a total tube noob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can anyone tell me what's the upgrade to PsVane tubes (on his website) will do to my HD650 or should I start with the stock Tung Sol?
  
 thanks!


----------



## hpamdr

quinto said:


> I decided to sell my V200 and buy an Elise for my beloved HD650 but I'm a total tube noob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Quinto, welcome abroad you made a good decision for your HD650 but specially for your ears and will be astonished.. You can start your order process.... and be ready to wait..
 Wait for the device being plugged to your best source and start enjoy once burned 50-100H you can try to find better tube set !
  
 Two more words KEEP CALM !
  
  
 I did try some PsVane and also some Shuguang 6SN7 like driver (already burned at local hifi dealer) but none is as good as some vintage VT-231 tube and cost more. Th tubes look very nice and it is great for exhibition but not as much for listening. I doubt that you will have significant enhancement using this kind of tube instead of the stock one.  The first would be to get some better power tube first and then experiment with driver according to your taste and your wallet.
  
 Keep your time, do not read yet all the franken-tube-experiments, as most of us are back to "more" conventional setup...


----------



## Quinto

hpamdr said:


> Hi Quinto, welcome abroad you made a good decision for your HD650 but specially for your ears and will be astonished.. You can start your order process.... and be ready to wait..
> Wait for the device being plugged to your best source and start enjoy once burned 50-100H you can try to find better tube set !
> 
> Two more words KEEP CALM !
> ...


 

 Merci, très utile, I'll try to keep calm while waiting for my V200 and PM3 to be sold so I can order the Elise


----------



## nojdrof

pctazhp said:


> Sorry. That isn't possible. Elise is single ended from input to output. But I'm curious as to what benefit you think you would derive by driving a headphone in balanced mode. Elise already has sufficient power to drive most headphones. And its imaging capability has been widely praised, so it probably already has very low cross talk.




The reason I asked this question is because I asked Sennheiser what I could do to get more bass and smooth out the treble and I was told to get a balanced cable. I've been trying to love my HD 700's for about a year now and have tried multiple amps with the same end results, not enough bass and too bright. The only solution is using an EQ to bring things where I like them. I've listened to many headphones and after listening to everything I could find at RMAF decided to bring home the HD800 to audition using my Elise amp. Other than great sound stage they sound very similar to my HD700 sorry not impressed. So after more research I read about the Focal Elear I traveled 50 miles to have a listen and WOW finally I'm hearing and feeling that impact and smoothness I've been looking for. It reminds me of the T1 (a very nice headphone) but with a little less treble and more impact but very precise. I think I found the headphones I've been looking for. Yes they don't have the wide sound stage that the 800 has but they sound fantastic to me. Has anyone used the Focal Elear with the Elise amp? I'm pretty confident it will sound great but feedback would be nice!

Thanks


----------



## sling5s

Selling my Cavalli Carbon and placed an order for the Elise. I wanted a full, lush and euphonic sounding tube amp to complement my microZOTL2-S.


----------



## Spork67

sling5s said:


> Selling my Cavalli Carbon and placed an order for the Elise. I wanted a full, lush and euphonic sounding tube amp to complement my microZOTL2-S.


 
 Welcome to the Elise family @sling5s 
 I'm sure you'll love your new amp.


----------



## sling5s

spork67 said:


> Welcome to the Elise family @sling5s
> I'm sure you'll love your new amp.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## Spork67

ps:
 Most people are more active in this thread now: http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary


----------



## hypnos1

quinto said:


> Merci, très utile, I'll try to keep calm while waiting for my V200 and PM3 to be sold so I can order the Elise


 
  
 Hi Quinto...well done on your choice of Elise - you won't be disappointed, I'm quite sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As @hpamdr said, those PsV's and Shuguangs do indeed look nice -  and I found my PsV CV181TIIs to be very good - but, as he also said, there are some old NOS tubes that are a good bit better for less money. Take your time, and do please try to read back through this and the other 2 threads to get an idea of just what might suit your own tastes...I know it's a tall order (they have been VERY busy threads lol!), but if you can spare the time, it will be well worth your while...
  
 Best wishes, and hope to hear more of your progress soon...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Quinto

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Quinto...well done on your choice of Elise - you won't be disappointed, I'm quite sure!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, we'll do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 first have to sell some old stuff, my patience will be tested coming month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 good for character building lol


----------



## connieflyer

Speaking of old tubes,  @UntilThen gave me a heads up on these two Raytheon tubes.  Ebay for only $20.00 plus $5.00 for shipping.  Tubes had been in a military signal generator that had not been used for forty years, and they work great.  The graphite plates are an unusual sight, well worth the gamble as to whether they would work or not.  Using with the EL3N and in my opinion, they are some of the best power tubes I have found so far.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Speaking of old tubes,  @UntilThen gave me a heads up on these two Raytheon tubes.  Ebay for only $20.00 plus $5.00 for shipping.  Tubes had been in a military signal generator that had not been used for forty years, and they work great.  The graphite plates are an unusual sight, well worth the gamble as to whether they would work or not.  Using with the EL3N and in my opinion, they are some of the best power tubes I have found so far.


 
 It's also really nice you know the provenance of the tubes-must add to the enjoyment and appreciation of their great sound.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Speaking of old tubes,  @UntilThen gave me a heads up on these two Raytheon tubes.  Ebay for only $20.00 plus $5.00 for shipping.  Tubes had been in a military signal generator that had not been used for forty years, and they work great.  The graphite plates are an unusual sight, well worth the gamble as to whether they would work or not.  Using with the EL3N and in my opinion, they are some of the best power tubes I have found so far.


 
 I saw a site (not ebay) with a stash of graphite plates (similar to those in your photo) with the RCA brand the other day but I can't find it now. They are expensive at $100+ each but they are NOS NIB.
  
 I find the Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite to be the tightest, most controlled sounding bass of all the power tubes I've heard. The thing that stood out most was the instruments separation. Notes are clear and precise. Width and depth of soundstage is also the best I've heard. It sounds great with all the drivers I've tried with it. 6SN7, EL3N, ECC31, etc. I'm loving this power tube.
  
 Glad the 40 years old dinosaurs still works for you.


----------



## connieflyer

I saw this page with RCA 6080's but did not see any graphite plates...https://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/power-tubes/6080


----------



## Spork67

Liking this sound a lot - but I don't know if it has any advantage over the TS 5998 / Visseaux 6N7G combo, and it sure doesn't look anywhere near as good.
 The 6 pack has more air and a bigger soundstage, but not sure if any other advantage over my fave combo (as above).
 Although the EL3N is a relatively "cheap" tube, by the time I bought 6 of them and the adapters they came close in cost to the TS / Viseaux too.
 Will try them gaming - should be awesome.
  

  
 edit: OK - forgot 4 of these were NOS. It's either the music I'm listening to, or they are improving rapidly with some burn-in.
 Will give them a week or so to settle in and see how I like them then.
 Early results are promising.


----------



## HOWIE13

I like the 6N7 as drivers but find a drop in volume whenever I use them, whatever the power tubes they are paired with. It's quite marked, about 'two hours' on the volume knob.
  
 Would be interested if anyone else has noticed this but I have not read anything about relatively lower volume with this tube type before. I've used RCA, K-R and Brimar 6N7GT and it's the same with them all.
  
 I need to be around 11-12 o'clock for moderately loud listening, compared to 9-10 o'clock normally. Not a huge deal, just intrigued nobody else has mentioned this.


----------



## hypnos1

spork67 said:


> Liking this sound a lot - but I don't know if it has any advantage over the TS 5998 / Visseaux 6N7G combo, and it sure doesn't look anywhere near as good.
> The 6 pack has more air and a bigger soundstage, but not sure if any other advantage over my fave combo (as above).
> Although the EL3N is a relatively "cheap" tube, by the time I bought 6 of them and the adapters they came close in cost to the TS / Viseaux too.
> Will try them gaming - should be awesome.
> ...


 
  
 Yo S67, those babies need a VERY long time (well over 100hrs!) to really shine lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...if I hadn't been patient when I first got these to work in Elise - thanks to @UntilThen's eye for a pretty tube!) -  they would now be consigned back to history and probably forgotten forever more!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(actually, I had a nasty shock when I first heard my new "special", mesh-plated EL3NG - even though only in one channel, it sounded YUCK!!!...what the ****?!! But coming back to it a good bit later the difference was amazing...and it can only get MUCH better still...thank the Gods!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 So I'm sure the 6-pack will eventually be much more to your liking...but of course, different gear/ears etc. etc.!!
  
 By the way, how do you like the (burned in) EL3Ns with the 5998s?...


----------



## HOWIE13

I prefer to buy well used EL3N's than new ones as they sound much more euphonic. Not saying new ones are not good- just that old used ones sound better to me.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I like the 6N7 as drivers but find a drop in volume whenever I use them, whatever the power tubes they are paired with. It's quite marked, about 'two hours' on the volume knob.
> 
> Would be interested if anyone else has noticed this but I have not read anything about relatively lower volume with this tube type before. I've used RCA, K-R and Brimar 6N7GT and it's the same with them all.
> 
> I need to be around 11-12 o'clock for moderately loud listening, compared to 9-10 o'clock normally. Not a huge deal, just intrigued nobody else has mentioned this.


 
 I do not get a lower gain with my Marconi 6N7 paired with Chatham 6520 or 5998. It's the same gain as I'd have with RCA 6N7GT. 6N7 sounded leaner.


----------



## Spork67

> By the way, how do you like the (burned in) EL3Ns with the 5998s?...


 
 I quite liked that combo. Very punchy and detailed, good soundstage. Initially it was almost too much of a good thing until my ears adjusted to it.
 Probably need to try it again when I have more hours on the EL3N drivers, my Visseaux tubes arrived not all that long after trying the EL3N - they looked much prettier so that's what I've been using for the last few weeks.


----------



## UntilThen

spork67 said:


> Liking this sound a lot - but I don't know if it has any advantage over the TS 5998 / Visseaux 6N7G combo, and it sure doesn't look anywhere near as good.
> *The 6 pack has more air and a bigger soundstage*, but not sure if any other advantage over my fave combo (as above).
> Although the EL3N is a relatively "cheap" tube, by the time I bought 6 of them and the adapters they came close in cost to the TS / Viseaux too.
> Will try them gaming - should be awesome.
> ...


 
 You have pick up the obvious attributes of the 6 pack. Give it more burn in and you'll get more clarity and balance. 6 pack suits a more neutral headphone like the T1 G1.
  
 Visseaux 6N7G and 5998 is one of the better sounding combo. 6 pack may not be necessary better but it's a different sonic signature. One that is intriguing.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I do not get a lower gain with my Marconi 6N7 paired with Chatham 6520 or 5998. It's the same gain as I'd have with RCA 6N7GT. 6N7 sounded leaner.


 
 Thanks UT.
  
 Is the gain with your 6N7's as drivers the same as other tubes used as drivers eg your 6SN7's?


----------



## UntilThen

It sounded similar to me compared with other 6SN7.

If you use 4xEL3N as power and you use 6SN7 or 6N7 there's a drop in gain.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> It sounded similar to me compared with other 6SN7.
> 
> If you use 4xEL3N as power and you use 6SN7 or 6N7 there's a drop in gain.


 
 You mean a drop in gain compared to 6 pack?


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> You mean a drop in gain compared to 6 pack?


 
 Yes. With 6 pack, gain is better than stock tubes. When I switch out EL3N drivers for 6SN7, 6N7G, gain drops. Switching to C3G is even worst. Above 12 noon, it induced hum.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Yes. With 6 pack, gain is better than stock tubes. When I switch out EL3N drivers for 6SN7, 6N7G, gain drops. Switching to C3G is even worst. Above 12 noon, it induced hum.


 
 Right, I understand and I more or less experience the same. Only difference is my 6N7GT's have the lowest gain of all those tubes, lower than C3g's which are pretty similar to my 6SN7's.
 Maybe something to do with the particular tube manufacturer or connections. I'll check the pins and the adapter too. They still sound very good, I was just curious and I appreciate you relating your own experience.


----------



## UntilThen

There's something about using 4xEL3N as power tubes. A drop in gain with other drivers other than EL3N. I mentioned this a while back when I was testing the various combinations. 
  
 If the drop in gain is not a problem for you, it's ok.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> There's something about using 4xEL3N as power tubes. A drop in gain with other drivers other than EL3N. I mentioned this a while back when I was testing the various combinations.
> 
> If the drop in gain is not a problem for you, it's ok.


 
  
 Yeah it sounds great, notwithstanding the vol being at a higher point.
  
 Sorry about your HD650. I lost a K701 the same way with a Raytheon 6080, a loud bang and left channel gone. Presumed it was an arc. It occurred immediately after I had powered up. The wretched tube was fine though and with different cans carried on playing as if nothing had happened and it's still okay.  Maybe it's a particular feature of 6080 tubes.


----------



## Spork67

Probably only 7-8 hours on the "six pack" - and wow!
 If these take 100+ hours to reach their full potential I'm in for a real treat!
 Initial impression of air and space are now opening up and getting more and more detail too.
 I think I'm a bit of a detail freak - especially when it's not at all fatiguing.
  
 Pulled a double shift at work today so will take tomorrow off (or at least work from home) and get another 12-14 hours on the EL3N's by tomorrow night.


----------



## hypnos1

spork67 said:


> Probably only 7-8 hours on the "six pack" - and wow!
> If these take 100+ hours to reach their full potential I'm in for a real treat!
> Initial impression of air and space are now opening up and getting more and more detail too.
> I think I'm a bit of a detail freak - especially when it's not at all fatiguing.
> ...


 
  
 GREAT, S67...you've obviously got your priorities right...but be warned, this could just be the start of a VERY slippery slope LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...HAPPY LISTENING, nonetheless!...


----------



## UntilThen

spork67 said:


> Probably only 7-8 hours on the "six pack" - and wow!
> If these take 100+ hours to reach their full potential I'm in for a real treat!
> Initial impression of air and space are now opening up and getting more and more detail too.
> I think I'm a bit of a detail freak - especially when it's not at all fatiguing.
> ...


 
 I've watch @pctazhp  in his early days loving the 6 pack. Then I heard @connieflyer  and @HOWIE13 loving it with passion.
  
 Now you....
  
 Good to know I'm not alone in this universe.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I've watch @pctazhp  in his early days loving the 6 pack. Then I heard @connieflyer  and @HOWIE13 loving it with passion.
> 
> Now you....
> 
> Good to know I'm not alone in this universe.


 
  
 Well just to really make your day I am posting my favourite combination (so far) for the difficult to reproduce female voice. It's T1(g2), Elise, T-S 6080 with Bad Boys, fed from D1050 (thought you would like that) and CD6004.
  
 Utter bliss: embracing, immersive, voluptuous, I feel like a kid who has just over indulged eating a huge chocolate cake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



       
  

  
  
 and as to what I've been listening to, for anyone who hasn't ever heard Lieder before here's arguably the most beautiful song ever composed:
  
 Heil’ge Nacht, du sinkest nieder;
 Nieder wallen auch die Träume
 Wie dein Mondlicht durch die Räume,
 Durch der Menschen stille Brust.
 Die belauschen sie mit Lust;
 Rufen, wenn der Tag erwacht:
 Kehre wieder, heil’ge Nacht!
 Holde Träume, kehret wieder!


 

 

 Holy night, you sink down;
 The dreams flow down, too,
 Like your moonlight through the rooms,
 Through the people's silent chests.
 They listen softly with desire;
 They call, when day awakens:
 Come back, holy night!
 Sweet dreams, come back!


----------



## UntilThen

That's a delicious combo Howie. 

So you got the T1 G2. Nice.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> That's a delicious combo Howie.
> 
> So you got the T1 G2. Nice.


 
  
 Yes and it exceeds my expectations. So involving and comfy, you forget you're using cans. 5 year warranty too.
  
 I still use 6 pack for the big stuff- orchestral, massed choirs and all that kind of thing because of it's very big sound-stage and excellent imaging.


----------



## Spork67

Have you also had the T1G1 @HOWIE13?
 Curious how they compare, especially via Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Using 6 pack with T1 and listening to 'Alone in the Universe' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's always fun to revisit the 6 pack.


----------



## HOWIE13

spork67 said:


> Have you also had the T1G1 @HOWIE13?
> Curious how they compare, especially via Elise.


 
 Oh no, that really would be excessive self-indulgence.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was attracted by the removable cable and the reviews saying g2 had a bit more in the bass and a slightly less prominent treble, though doubtless with all the tubes we have available to chose from I'm sure Elise would adapt to the g1 if it didn't suit. 
 To be honest I'm sure g1 would have been good for me too. I don't think, from what I've read, there is that much of a difference between them.


----------



## HOWIE13

Here's a firm recommendation for Grand Piano for T1/g2 users: Great sound from 5998 and Ken-Rad VT231.


----------



## Quinto

So please help a tube-noob music lover out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Which tubes would be great for my HD650, I listen to classical (lots of solo piano and strings) and jazz (no big band stuff).. say on a budget around 250 euro (or less of course)
  
 I'm not planning on tube rolling, I just want great wonder sound and be done with it (really
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 and what's the consensus on the stoch tubes, are they ok or not really..


----------



## HOWIE13

quinto said:


> So please help a tube-noob music lover out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's really hard to answer you just now but when your Elise comes, if you listen with the stock tubes and post what you think and how you would like the sound improved, then there will be a reference point to offer advice. That way you can hopefully save the cost of trial and error tube rolling.


----------



## connieflyer

That would be my advice as well. Let the amp and tubes burn in and see what you like or dislike and it would then be easier to advise you. Get some hours on the gear first.  I wish I would have done that but did not. Now I know better.  Good luck


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> That would be my advice as well. Let the amp and tubes burn in and see what you like or dislike and it would then be easier to advise you. Get some hours on the gear first.  I wish I would have done that but did not. Now I know better.  Good luck


 
  As I was tying that I was thinking the same about myself too  LOL


----------



## Quinto

howie13 said:


> It's really hard to answer you just now but when your Elise comes, if you listen with the stock tubes and post what you think and how you would like the sound improved, then there will be a reference point to offer advice. That way you can hopefully save the cost of trial and error tube rolling.


 

 sounds like music to my ears, thanks guys


----------



## hypnos1

Hi folks....
                                                    *A NEW ELISE IS ON ITS WAY TO ME...and it's DIFFERENT!!!*
  
 Let me explain...
  
 For some time now I've been suffering dreadful withdrawal symptoms that have only been slightly eased by my chance discovery of, and experimentation with, mesh-plated tubes of the EL3N family. The reason? - my left channel has been out of operation!...
  
 For a long time, my punishment of the sockets has resulted in less-than-perfect contact, especially with certain tubes. In my frustration, I have often forced the tube in more vehemently than I should have, eventually resulting in refusal to play ball at all. I now realise that the culprits were tubes with pins that were nowhere near straight and distorted the socket's receptors. And so my advice to all is : *straighten any bent pins* before insertion, and *do not force tubes in unduly!* Make sure the pins align well, don't insert at an angle, and all should be well. Or, as some do, use aptly-named "socket saver" adapters lol!...here endeth the lesson...
  
 Anyway, the upshot was that Lukasz was happy to offer me a replacement amp, in view of mine being the 'prototype' and the guinea pig in discovering just what alternative tubes Elise can manage/surpass with....I said YES PLEASE, of course. But not content with that, I saw this as an opportunity to ask for some possible upgrades while at it - at my own expense...one of them being fancy-grade sockets! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 And then I thought : why not use this as a blueprint for a possible "Special" Elise version as an upgraded option?...and after long, hard deliberation (hence my unbearable wait/suffering lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but all in a good cause...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), those marvellous guys at F-A have come up with mods that have surely exceeded all my expectations/hopes, and which - _*thankfully!*_ - they're extremely pleased with as far as the final result is concerned.
  
 And so, assuming I am as pleased as they are with the modded version (yet to be named), it will probably be offered as an option, at a price yet TBA.
 Needless to say, my eagerness to get an Elise back in my life is now ten-fold what it has been for a good while now!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...just have to hang on a few (hopefully!) more days...am desperate for my fix LOL!...
  
 I shall copy here Lukasz's list of the mods done...which I personally find very impressive - to say the least! But, of course, the proof of the pudding....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....and as a teaser, he sent a photo of the new sockets used...WOW already!!...
  

  
  

  
 Teflon, gold-plated sockets...drool,drool...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So watch this space guys!...CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

A thing of beauty  to be sure!
 Good luck!


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 We are all looking forward to hear your impressions - is it going to be a subtle change or major change in sound?
  
 Also interesting to hear that the problem with your amp was a worn out socket. Personally, I have been using socket savers since day one with the Elise to avoid wearing out the sockets, and to insulate the chassis from the heat of the tubes, resulting in lower operating temperatures.


----------



## Walderstorn

Also the price would be interesting to know in the case they are considering offering those options and others to all.


----------



## Lavakugel

Hi
  
 Just read about feliks audio elise. Is this tube amp really so good?. Have anybody compared it to icon audio hp8 or woo wa 6 (se)?


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow H1, for me the biggest improvement may be the pure silver connectors. This is something that had crossed my mind earlier that could benefit an amp, seeing how astronomical of a difference my OFC silver cable replacement for an HP-100 headphone had made. After re-confirming this with almost 30 A/B cable comparison tests... literally the difference was night / day: dynamics twice as sharp, 2x improved details / clarity, bass more organic sounding - yet overall slightly 'brighter' as many experience with silver cables. So definitely the sound of the upgraded Elise will be different - I'm sure for the _even _better


----------



## UntilThen

A timely Christmas gift for you @hypnos1 . Well derserved and am glad FA gave you an ungraded replacement.


----------



## DecentLevi

Also about wire materials, I wanted to mention that different types of conductors in fact do color the sound in different ways. Gauge also matters: too thick and you will lose some signal and too thin it will act as a resistor.
  
@UntilThen good to see you're still around and didn't miss something as extraordinary as this! Over one year and 3 Elise threads, occasionally peaking as the #2 thread on Head-Fi, and still we got more exciting times ahead! I also have some cool things up my sleeve (not only the below)
  



lavakugel said:


> Hi
> 
> Just read about feliks audio elise. Is this tube amp really so good?. Have anybody compared it to icon audio hp8 or woo wa 6 (se)?


 
  
 Haven't heard of the HP8, may have tried the WA 6, but I do recall the WA2 is much more resolving than the Elise. I recon however that the upgraded Elise just may be on level playing field with all of the above. And at least if you get the 'standard' Elise you can reach amazing heights with the likes of 421A or Chatham / Tung Sol 5998 powers with EL3N drivers, for one of thousands of possibile combinations.
 You can also get jaw-dropping fidelity from the Elise with SACD... for the first time in my life, I heard native DSD yesterday with the Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










. I didn't post about it on the Elise threads because I don't think you guys would believe me on what a difference this makes vs. PCM _(WAV / CD / FLAC)_, but let me just say that it was astounding enough to move me to tears even with a genre I barely like. And I do say that native DSD on the Elise (with 421A powers + EL3N drivers and modded HD 650) sounded as good to me as the Woo Audio WA2, and perhaps better than the newest Zana Deux playing PCM


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> A thing of beauty  to be sure!
> Good luck!


 
  
 Thanks cf...indeed, even more beautiful than before! And hopefully even more beautiful _sound_ lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> We are all looking forward to hear your impressions - is it going to be a subtle change or major change in sound?
> 
> Also interesting to hear that the problem with your amp was a worn out socket. Personally, I have been using socket savers since day one with the Elise to avoid wearing out the sockets, and to insulate the chassis from the heat of the tubes, resulting in lower operating temperatures.


 
  
 Yo m...I certainly did punish my sockets over the past almost 2 years - should have used those socket savers LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but have always preferred keeping to a minimum any additional connections in the signal line - Catch 22!! Your point re. helping to reduce heat build-up is also a good one though...especially when using tubes like the ECC31, which have the amp getting very hot... (another plus for the EL3N, which has the case and transformer running hardly warm!).
  


lavakugel said:


> Hi
> 
> Just read about feliks audio elise. Is this tube amp really so good?. Have anybody compared it to icon audio hp8 or woo wa 6 (se)?


 
  
 Hi Lavakugel.
  
 There are now a good many who _do_ say Elise is extremely good - especially at the price point. Don't think we've yet had anyone also with the amps you mention, alas...it would indeed be a very interesting comparison...(I suspect the new, modified edition on its way to me will stand up to some _very_ serious competition - hopefully lol!).
  


decentlevi said:


> Wow H1, for me the biggest improvement may be the pure silver connectors. This is something that had crossed my mind earlier that could benefit an amp, seeing how astronomical of a difference my OFC silver cable replacement for an HP-100 headphone had made. Literally the difference was night / day: dynamics twice as sharp, 2x improved details / clarity, bass more organic sounding - yet overall slightly 'brighter' as is generally experienced with silver cables from many.


 
  
 Hi DL...pure silver wire for the signal line was the main upgrade I asked/hoped for - as most must have gathered by now, I've been an avid fan of pure silver for a long while now. And so long as at least 99.9% soft-annealed silver is used, that added 'brightness' shouldn't border on _harshness_. I'm over the moon therefore that F-A did in fact go for this upgrade...along with those others I'd hoped for!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> A timely Christmas gift for you @hypnos1 . Well derserved and am glad FA gave you an ungraded replacement.


 
  
 Yes indeed UT...and thanks - can hardly believe my first was _two_ Christmases ago lol! And so now, my poor abused prototype will apparently take pride of place atop a workshop place at F-A ... a 'mascot' for where it all began! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(mind you, mon ami, I sure do hope my new replacement is in fact an _UP_graded one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS! to you too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed UT...and thanks - can hardly believe my first was _two_ Christmases ago lol! And so now, my poor abused prototype will apparently take pride of place atop a workshop place at F-A ... a 'mascot' for where it all began!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats H1.!
 You better not plan any long spells away from home for the next year. We shall be eagerly awaiting your regular updates!


----------



## hypnos1

walderstorn said:


> Also the price would be interesting to know in the case they are considering offering those options and others to all.


 
  
 Hi Walderstorn.
  
 They are indeed viewing this as an opportunity to offer this modded Elise as an option for all - anything more major that requires a change in chassis would have to be much further down the road alas...(such as a beefier/upgraded transformer etc...although I suspect this particular area wouldn't need _too_ much attention/extra cost, given our power tubes are providing the output!).
  
 But first they're awaiting my own impressions...although I'm sure their collective ears are far better than mine anyway LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 ps. Lukasz has just informed me the price "won't be cheap" - hardly surprising, given all the upgrades made!!...especially as the teflon-tubed pure silver wire has to be constructed in-house; the special sockets entail more complicated installation - both of which therefore incur higher labour cost as well as materials/components...not to mention Mundorf caps etc. etc.!
  
 But he did also confirm that they regarded the improvement in sound quality justifies the increased cost...and I can well believe it - these are not just minor 'tweaking', by any stretch of the imagination!
  
 Plus, actual timing of the offer is also TBA...
  


howie13 said:


> Congrats H1.!
> You better not plan any long spells away from home for the next year. We shall be eagerly awaiting your regular updates!


 
  
 Thanks H13...yeah, and there was I thinking I was nicely settled for quiet retirement with 001 Elise - should have known better!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However, this has in fact fired me up out of my lethargy once more...but I find all this excitement is now much more tiring than it used to be lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...be assured there will be *plenty* of updates!!..(no doubt these alterations will have unforeseen effects on different tubes used - hopefully always for the *better!!*).


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Walderstorn.
> 
> They are indeed viewing this as an opportunity to offer this modded Elise as an option for all - anything more major that requires a change in chassis would have to be much further down the road alas...(such as a beefier/upgraded transformer etc...although I suspect this particular area wouldn't need _too_ much attention/extra cost, given our power tubes are providing the output!).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lethargy! Never- I can't imagine you ever being lethargic, in spite of your name.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nevertheless, if you should ever wish for a second opinion I would be glad to lend you my 'golden ears', 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I quite fancy a few days at the Swan at Lavenham- it's years since I was last there and I still remember the four poster room where Matthew Hopkins, 'Witchfinder General', is said to have slept.


----------



## Spork67

It's a shame the special sockets aren't a stock part for all Elise, given the amp seems to be designed with tube rolling in mind - but I guess we have to look at the cost and the fact that the sockets may add to longevity, but not to sound quality.
 I wonder if the near future holds the choice of Elise or Elise 2 / uber / whatever - or (this would seem ideal to me) Base model Elise with various added cost options. As each one is hand built, I would imagine building each one to a specific specification wouldn't add too much to turnover time.
  
 I might have to look at some socket savers - although I don't know if I'll change tubes all that often.
  
 edit:
 I can't find socket savers for 6AS7G, but the power sockets _look_ the same as the driver ones to me.
 Can I use the same (6SN7) socket savers for both?
 These ones?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCS-8pin-K8A-Testing-Tube-Socket-Saver-For-EL34-5881-6SN7-KT88-5Z3P-5AR4-274B-/201089492161?hash=item2ed1de24c1:g:lxwAAOSwujFXGED0


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Lethargy! Never- I can't imagine you ever being lethargic, in spite of your name.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm...I should have thought there would be a good many vengeful Spirits haunting _any_ spot where this monster laid his awful head LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 But Lavenham sure is a nice spot - a long ways from me, alas...perhaps you can pop your golden ears in the post?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


spork67 said:


> It's a shame the special sockets aren't a stock part for all Elise, given the amp seems to be designed with tube rolling in mind - but I guess we have to look at the cost and the fact that the sockets may add to longevity, but not to sound quality.
> I wonder if the near future holds the choice of Elise or Elise 2 / uber / whatever - or (this would seem ideal to me) Base model Elise with various added cost options. As each one is hand built, I would imagine building each one to a specific specification wouldn't add too much to turnover time.
> 
> I might have to look at some socket savers - although I don't know if I'll change tubes all that often.
> ...


 
  
 Yo S67...I hear you loud and clear re. the sockets! But as you say...cost, including labour involved. Lukasz always said they went for electrical/soldering characteristics rather than for extensive tube rolling...they never realised we were such *avid* rollers LOL!!
  
 Given these special sockets seem to be used in 'summit-fi' amps, I'm sure sound quality will also benefit...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Good idea re. choice of added cost options...will see what Lukasz thinks of it...
  
 And yes, 6AS7G pin-out is the same as for 6SN7...


----------



## sling5s

I know Feliks Audio charges a default (European) shipping fee at check out but it was my impression that when they send an invoice for additional shipping fee (in my case to U.S) that its because it is ready to ship. So when last Friday I received an invoice for U.S shipping, I paid it expecting to get shipping information or notification that it has shipped. When I didn't, I emailed Feliks Audio, but got to reply. I sent another email but no reply of as of last Friday.  Kind of confused about the process and lack of communication.


----------



## hypnos1

sling5s said:


> I know Feliks Audio charges a default (European) shipping fee at check out but it was my impression that when they send an invoice for additional shipping fee (in my case to U.S) that its because it is ready to ship. So when last Friday I received an invoice for U.S shipping, I paid it expecting to get shipping information or notification that it has shipped. When I didn't, I emailed Feliks Audio, but got to reply. I sent another email but no reply of as of last Friday.  Kind of confused about the process and lack of communication.


 
  
 Hi sling5s.
  
 Sorry to hear of your situation...don't know myself about additional shipping payment and readiness to ship I'm afraid, but I do know sometimes there can indeed be gaps in communication...often apparently down to their somewhat 'patchy' email client (eg. many emails have ended up in the *SPAM* folder *BOTH* ways lol!!)....to the point where after no word for some time a parcel suddenly appears on the horizon! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hopefully you will get some idea of status fairly soon...keep up the emails, and check your spam folder LOL!!


----------



## sling5s

hypnos1 said:


> Hi sling5s.
> 
> Sorry to hear of your situation...don't know myself about additional shipping payment and readiness to ship I'm afraid, but I do know sometimes there can indeed be gaps in communication...often apparently down to their somewhat 'patchy' email client (eg. many emails have ended up in the *SPAM* folder *BOTH* ways lol!!)....to the point where after no word for some time a parcel suddenly appears on the horizon!
> 
> ...


 
 I got just got an email saying it shipped.


----------



## hypnos1

sling5s said:


> I got just got an email saying it shipped.


 
  
 Great news sling...well, I did have fingers, toes and everything else crossed for you lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Now I shall hope for a safe, speedy journey...good things coming your way...CHEERS!...


----------



## sling5s

hypnos1 said:


> Great news sling...well, I did have fingers, toes and everything else crossed for you lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you.


----------



## DecentLevi

@sling5s I see you're in Southern Cali. If you're able to make a trip up to central / northern Cali on November 26th Saturday, you can enjoy my awesome 6-hr. local meet I'm setting up in San Jose. It's in the large community room of a library (my 2nd meet there), and there's guaranteed to be loads of unique and top notch member set-ups, such as the Woo Audio WA2 and my Elise amp which I will try both with my rare top-class driver / power tubes, along with other great novelty rigs such as Gracie M903 amp/DAC with Audio Technica ATH-R70x. Event link:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/824498/


----------



## sling5s

decentlevi said:


> @sling5s I see you're in Southern Cali. If you're able to make a trip up to central / northern Cali on November 26th Saturday, you can enjoy my awesome 6-hr. local meet I'm setting up in San Jose. It's in the large community room of a library (my 2nd meet there), and there's guaranteed to be loads of unique and top notch member set-ups, such as the Woo Audio WA2 and my Elise amp which I will try both with my rare top-class driver / power tubes, along with other great novelty rigs such as Gracie M903 amp/DAC with Audio Technica ATH-R70x. Event link:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/824498/


 

 Thanks for the invite. Can't make it up there but it sounds fun.


----------



## aqsw

RIP - Leonard Cohen


----------



## connieflyer

A musical genius to be sure, great talent and a voice to match


----------



## DecentLevi

At first I didn't recognise his name, then after a little digging I realise I had three of his albums in a best-of Canadian compilation earlier this year which I deleted because I couldn't stand his style at all. I guess his style just may not be appealing to generation X or later.
  
 OTOH, some of my favorite Canadian artists are Richie Hawtin (Plastikman), Sarah McLachlan - and and Nelly Furtado if it wasn't for the atrocious mastering, and I've recently discovered Rufus Wainwright and Tragically Hip
  
Plastikman - Kriket (1994) 
  
Rufus Wainwright - April Fools (1998)  
  
 For those regions who can't see the above video, here's an alternate copy:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2EQis2p3jo


----------



## richdytch

Hi all,

I know I'm probably unearthing a subject that's been dead and buried for a while. But the other day, under the influence of alcohol, I purchased 4 6bl7 tubes. 

So now I want to use them... can anyone confirm that it's safe to use quad 6bl7 in the elise, with 6sn7 as drivers? I looked around but saw a few conflicting or unclear statements, so wanted to check.

Thanks, 

Rich.


----------



## richdytch

Also, are 6BL7 and 6SN7 interchangable? 
  
 thanks...


----------



## ph58

pctazhp said:


> This is my promised side-by-side comparison of the T1Gen 2 and HD800S. I have spent a lot of time listening to both headphones.
> 
> For those that don’t want to read all the way through, I’m going to disclose up front that I have decided to keep the T1 and put my HD800S up for sale. They are both amazing headphones, and I can easily see why different people would prefer one over the other, even by wide margins. I believe in deciding between two phones, it really comes down to a gut-level decision that is difficult to describe or even understand. For me, I made my decision primarily on the basis of which phone did I usually find myself listening to longer without being tempted to change back to the other (the T1 won this one) and which phone did I usually listen to for the shortest period of time before wanting to switch back to the other (the T1 also won this one).
> 
> ...


 

 For me that is quite the opposite ! i use to have the T1Gen2 and return it ! for the The HD800S ! for me the HD800S is simply better ! So far ! just my personal opinions ! Thanks


----------



## pctazhp

ph58 said:


> For me that is quite the opposite ! i use to have the T1Gen2 and return it ! for the The HD800S ! for me the HD800S is simply better ! So far ! just my personal opinions ! Thanks


 

 In the end I returned the T1G2 and kept the S. It was a difficult decision, but I have never looked back.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/10125#post_12563702


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know I'm probably unearthing a subject that's been dead and buried for a while. But the other day, under the influence of alcohol, I purchased 4 6bl7 tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Rich
  
 I've never compared the two types of tube, though I would expect them to sound somewhat different as they have differing characteristics.
  
 The heater current of the 6BL7  is 1.5A so you will exceed Elise's max of 6.8A if you use 4 of them with two 6SN7's as drivers as that set-up will produce a total of 7.2A.


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Hi Rich
> 
> I've never compared the two types of tube, though I would expect them to sound somewhat different as they have differing characteristics.
> 
> The heater current of the 6BL7  is 1.5A so you will exceed Elise's max of 6.8A if you use 4 of them with two 6SN7's as drivers as that set-up will produce a total of 7.2A.




Hi Howie - thanks very much. It was the current draw I was thinking about. I'll maybe look into other options... not sure what the current draw of The el3n is but I think it's less than 6sn7...


----------



## DecentLevi

7.2ah only goes 0.4ah over the Elise load limit, which has been just fine for several of us. I have used quad 6BL7 as powers, which was the stepping stone to my "Christmas Tree" setup which was better than those. All in all though, I don't recommend quad 6BL7 as powers. IMO this is a 'bottom of the barrel' setup with a highly colored sound, and I have personally witnessed at least 6-8 further increments of improvement over those using other drivers, namely slotted Bendix 6080, GEC 6AS7G, Tung Sol 5998, and especially quad EL3N + various miniature drivers. (see the other thread for developments)


----------



## Oskari

richdytch said:


> Hi Howie - thanks very much. It was the current draw I was thinking about. I'll maybe look into other options... not sure what the current draw of The el3n is but I think it's less than 6sn7...




The EL3N is worse than 6SN7 heater-wise.

2 * C3g + 4 * 6BL7, for example, should be within safe limits.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Hi Howie - thanks very much. It was the current draw I was thinking about. I'll maybe look into other options... not sure what the current draw of The el3n is but I think it's less than 6sn7...


 
 EL3N heater current is higher than 6SN7 at 0.9A


----------



## DecentLevi

I also thought the stock 6H13C powers to be superior than any of the 6BL7 and / or 6BL7 + 6SN7 and / or <---+ 6J5 power combos


----------



## richdytch

After my intoxicated tube-ordering incident, my 6BL7s arrived, and in rare multi-tube power setup for me, I'm running 2 X 6BL7 and 2 x 6SN7 as powers, with EL3N as driver. It's nice, really nice actually. Better definition in the treble/mids than the 6080/EL3N combo I've been using recently. Nice bass extension too - something that I don't experience with 6AS7G, but do with 6080... which is why I've been using them recently. Will stick with this combo for a while, and see if any harsh edges emerge and start to irritate me.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> After my intoxicated tube-ordering incident, my 6BL7s arrived, and in rare multi-tube power setup for me, I'm running 2 X 6BL7 and 2 x 6SN7 as powers, with EL3N as driver. It's nice, really nice actually. Better definition in the treble/mids than the 6080/EL3N combo I've been using recently. Nice bass extension too - something that I don't experience with 6AS7G, but do with 6080... which is why I've been using them recently. Will stick with this combo for a while, and see if any harsh edges emerge and start to irritate me.


 
  
  Shhhhh-- don't speak too loud but assuming you have one 6BL7 and one 6SN7 per channel as power tubes I believe you may have discovered the original '_ChristmasTree_' set-up.
 .
 Now all you do is to substitute each 6SN7 with dual 6J5's and you have the modified _'Christmas Tree'_, which I still find a very satisfying power arrangement.


----------



## richdytch

HE


howie13 said:


> Shhhhh-- don't speak too loud but assuming you have one 6BL7 and one 6SN7 per channel as power tubes I believe you may have discovered the original '_ChristmasTree_' set-up.
> .
> Now all you do is to substitute each 6SN7 with dual 6J5's and you have the modified _'Christmas Tree'_, which I still find a very satisfying power arrangement.


 
  
 heheh, well I don't think I'll be going that far... 6 tubes in the elise is pretty whacky for me. It fills me with a slight feeling of unease - being something of a conformist. But it is nice. 
  
 It could be though, that I take the Mullard 6080 and EL3N setup back, for all its faults, as my every day setup. Even if it lacks some definition and is a bit woolly and flabby, it's just hearty and reassuring.


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> HE
> 
> heheh, well I don't think I'll be going that far... 6 tubes in the elise is pretty whacky for me. It fills me with a slight feeling of unease - being something of a conformist. But it is nice.
> 
> It could be though, that I take the Mullard 6080 and EL3N setup back, for all its faults, as my every day setup. Even if it lacks some definition and is a bit woolly and flabby, it's just hearty and reassuring.


 
  
 Yes, every day brings new tubes for me- that's the wonder of Elise-so many excellent sounding possibilities.


----------



## richdytch

Definitely. Really enjoying the KR vt231 with this setup. Another flavour of wonderful.


----------



## connieflyer

A musical interlude for @UntilThen and @pctazhp not a sleeper this time.


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, nice interesting music recommendations


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> A musical interlude for @UntilThen and @pctazhp not a sleeper this time.


 
 This I like. You've pick the right songs this time.
  
 1st picture is 'Stairway to heaven' by Mark Thornton although the picture shows Hayseed Dixie. However they are both good, especially Hotel California where the instruments are banjo, fiddle, mandolin and acoustic bass.
  
 This is what I have in mind about forming a band. Do you play the banjo? @pctazhp  can do the fiddle or mandolin.


----------



## UntilThen

You need to practise in the shower first.


----------



## connieflyer

I would love to be in your band, but I thing rehearsals are going to be a small problem. Although after I hit the lottery and buy my own jet, I can just stop and pick  up @pctazhp and fly on over!


----------



## connieflyer

Wait now I have to shower too?  Wow, you don't ask for much! Must be looking for that good clean sound!


----------



## UntilThen

If I can sing like this I'll probably stay in the shower the whole day.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> If I can sing like this I'll probably stay in the shower the whole day.





 I would stay in the shower all day if I could just get this video out of my mind. You have finally extracted your revenge for all the horrible videos I have inflicted on you.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This I like. You've pick the right songs this time.
> 
> 1st picture is 'Stairway to heaven' by Mark Thornton although the picture shows Hayseed Dixie. However they are both good, especially Hotel California where the instruments are banjo, fiddle, mandolin and acoustic bass.
> 
> This is what I have in mind about forming a band. Do you play the banjo? @pctazhp  can do the fiddle or *mandolin*.


----------



## connieflyer

Good one @pctazhp Like this, first time I have heard it, I must have been working too many hours back then!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Good one @pctazhp Like this, first time I have heard it, I must have been working too many hours back then!


 

 I loved this album, which I had on vinyl.  I think it was Rod's first. Unfortunately, the SQ from Youtube isn't very good. There's some amazing bass on the original recording that is completely lacking on the YT link I posted.
  
 Speaking of Rod Steward, I think we should join @UntilThen band if he will adopt this as the band's theme song in honor of you and me:


----------



## connieflyer

I think that is great idea.  We will have to gang up on him and convince him.  After all, it would be such a waste of all this talent if he refuses!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I think that is great idea.  We will have to gang up on him and convince him.  After all, it would be such a waste of all this talent if he refuses!


 

 Talent??? Oh my gosh. I didn't realize he was looking for talent


----------



## connieflyer

Hey, just wing it, that's what I do,  what I don't know or can't do just pretend you do, at my age by the time anyone finds out, I will be gone!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Hey, just wing it, that's what I do,  what I don't know or can't do just pretend you do, at my age by the time anyone finds out, I will be gone!


 

 I've got it covered. I'm going to learn to play the Kazoo!!! @UntilThen on bass?  What do you think????


----------



## HOWIE13

Sad news that Greg Lake has died.


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> I've got it covered. I'm going to learn to play the Kazoo!!! @UntilThen on bass?  What do you think????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, haven't heard Sukiyaki for so long, used to play a trumpet solo for it back in the 70's, man I'm feeling old.  I think the version many remember is by A Taste of Honey in the 80's.


----------



## richdytch

Still loving my 2x 6BL7/2x 6SN7 combo as powers. In wanting to make sure I wasn't getting carried away, I tried pretty much every other power tube at my disposal, but nothing (for me and this system) comes close. I remember craving the glassy midrange smoothness of the Chatham 6AS7G in a power tube with more bass oomph like the Mullard 6080, and this does it. It does it better than the Chatham. Listening back to the Chathams now, they sound constricted and flat in comparison - and they were once my most prized power tube. I'm going to hang on to them though. I find it hard to get rid of tubes. With this power setup, the sound with my 1944 KR VT-231s is very transparent, silky, and firm in the bass as you'd expect with Ken Rads. It's really classy - and it's very rare I'm truly impressed with my own setup (you might well ask why I do it). It just sounds so together. 

Also now running a cheap tube/SS hybrid phono preamp - the Yaqin MS-23B. A lot of people seem to rave about them, and some people seem to think they're useless trash. And for sure it doesn't offer the depth and dimension that my Graham Slee unit does, but in this system with speakers tending towards bright - or rather 'unforgiving' - it's working out very nicely. Everyone says that the treble response will improve if I roll the cheap Chinese 12AX7s out, but quite frankly I like it as it is. Finally I have a phono stage which will flatter my old jazz vinyl before sending the signal off to very analytical speakers. Feels like a happy arrangement. 

I also sorted out my long-term ground loop problem - it wasn't a ground loop. Simply, the Elise going straight into my Quad 909, was resulting in waayyyy too much gain. Hum, clicks, odd pings, and bonging sounds which the Elise makes were being rendered audible. I stuck a Fostex volume pot between the Elise and 909, and all audible noise is gone. I can also use far more of the volume pot range of the Elise. I think it's freed the system up a bit. Might be pure placebo effect, but something about it feels more effortless and less strained - I think the Elise enjoys working a little harder. Before, I was rarely getting beyond 8 o'clock on the volume dial. 

Happy days here. Just listening to music and not fretting about system inadequacies. I know it won't last for ever, but that's partly life, and partly the curse of the compulsive tinkerer.

Rich


----------



## HOWIE13

richdytch said:


> Still loving my 2x 6BL7/2x 6SN7 combo as powers. In wanting to make sure I wasn't getting carried away, I tried pretty much every other power tube at my disposal, but nothing (for me and this system) comes close. I remember craving the glassy midrange smoothness of the Chatham 6AS7G in a power tube with more bass oomph like the Mullard 6080, and this does it. It does it better than the Chatham. Listening back to the Chathams now, they sound constricted and flat in comparison - and they were once my most prized power tube. I'm going to hang on to them though. I find it hard to get rid of tubes. With this power setup, the sound with my 1944 KR VT-231s is very transparent, silky, and firm in the bass as you'd expect with Ken Rads. It's really classy - and it's very rare I'm truly impressed with my own setup (you might well ask why I do it). It just sounds so together.
> 
> Also now running a cheap tube/SS hybrid phono preamp - the Yaqin MS-23B. A lot of people seem to rave about them, and some people seem to think they're useless trash. And for sure it doesn't offer the depth and dimension that my Graham Slee unit does, but in this system with speakers tending towards bright - or rather 'unforgiving' - it's working out very nicely. Everyone says that the treble response will improve if I roll the cheap Chinese 12AX7s out, but quite frankly I like it as it is. Finally I have a phono stage which will flatter my old jazz vinyl before sending the signal off to very analytical speakers. Feels like a happy arrangement.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hearing music that's 'together' and sounds 'right' is a big compliment to any sound system.
 I'm delighted you're enjoying your present set-ups.


----------



## richdytch

howie13 said:


> Hearing music that's 'together' and sounds 'right' is a big compliment to any sound system.
> I'm delighted you're enjoying your present set-ups.


 
  
 Thanks Howie. Yes, it's nice to be at this point.The setup in the Elise seems to work really nicely with my HE400 too - tried it briefly last night. Woop.


----------



## hypnos1

Glad you've found a setup that brings you joy @richdytch...perhaps your "tinkering" might one day stretch to hitting the wallet also and diving headlong into the *NEW ELISE *next year - which by the way, for any here who haven't been following the "Impressions" thread, is now in my clammy hands and continuing to test my belief more each day...it is _*that*_ good lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I shall be carting it over to the Milton Keynes meet in April, if anyone's interested...CHEERS!!...


----------



## richdytch

Hi Hypnos, well I'm only a couple of hours' drive from Milton Keynes, so that is very tempting. But to be honest I've been trying to avoid thinking about the Elise_II since I've spent far too much on audio kit this year. However it does give me an added incentive to try harder at work and max out on the bonus 

The Elise is still the single biggest upgrade I've ever made to my signal chain going into the speakers. I'm not entirely sure how long I've had it either - probably 8 or 9 months, but it still does things that amaze me, on a daily basis. Big respect for the Feliks crew. I keep eyeing up their 2A3 amps, etc, but fortunately my PMCs, while amazing, are too inefficient to be powered by them. Hence 140W of solid state grunt behind them. Fortunate, because it means I won't spend the cash on new power amp AND speakers.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,

I remember Lukacs answering that their 2A3 amp does not sound better than the Elise - just the ability to drive. speakers


----------



## richdytch

Hi Morty. Yes, I was referring to them as speaker amps. I'm like you in being mainly a speaker listener


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 What's wrong with using the Elise as a preamp? My speakers are powered by a glorious 110W Sony 1980's integrated amp (TA-AX530).
  




 It has a slider switch on the back middle left to connect an equalizer, and this is where my Elise is connected.
  




  
 I always turn the Elise volume control to max and adjust the volume with the amp volume control. Treble/bass sliders are useful as well. Another feature I appreciate (discovered shall we say by accident) is protective circuitry that shuts off the amp if a tube or speaker shorts out. My Outlaw RR2150 receiver (4 1/2 stars on Amazon) did not have this protective circuit and blew up when a speaker unexpectedly shorted after four years of use. In desperation I fished out the Sony amp from my garage (a present from somebody who did not want it) and was really pleasantly surprised...
  
 In the middle of the front panel on top are red LEDs that light up a watt meter (not seen on picture). Just checked - loud speaker volume is 1/2 - 1W; cranking it up above 5-7W is way too loud for my listening room. 400hp under the hood! Or for UT 298kW....
  
 All ss amps sound the same, right........LOL


----------



## richdytch

Hi Mordy... nothing wrong with using the Elise as a preamp whatsoever - it's a VERY fine preamp!
  
 That's a great slab of 80s Sony you have there   and the DC/short protection is a bonus. I hear that my Quad has _some _sort of protection, but I'm not sure what. I'd rather not have to find out by accident!
  
 Cheers, 
  
 Rich.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 Tried your 6BL7/6SN7 combination of power tubes. I used a GE BL and the Russian Tung Sol reissue SN tubes - don't have Ken-Rads, so I used my favorite drivers, the EL3N. It is indeed a very nice combination with very good sound.
  
 But....compared to my GEC 6AS7 it is lacking in a few areas: The mid bass is recessed, the instrument separation is more fuzzy, and the BL/SN combo is lacking the clarity, sweetness and energy of the GEC tubes.
  
 Unfortunately the GEC 6AS7/A1834 command astronomical prices today, but in my system they are the best sounding power tubes.


----------



## richdytch

Hi Mordy. I had actually been wondering how much better the GECs would be. I just know I could never justify spending those kinds of sums on tubes... I think I'd rather get a better amp. Although I know that I'd have to spend a lot to get something nicer than the Elise. 

I have noticed that the quality of the BL/SN setup does vary greatly with the tubes used. I received two pairs of 6BL7s and one pair is notably better than the other. They are 1966 GE NOS. The 6SN7s used also have a similarly dramatic effect on the sound... I actually settled on the stock Tung Sol reissues, as the various others I had seemed to sound very thin in this combination. I also gave up using EL3N as drivers with this setup - they seemed a bit woolly. Much more successful are my KR 1944 VT231 (if I'm after clarity and transparency) or their 1950 6SN7 if I fancy warmth and lushness.


----------



## mordy

Hi rd,
  
 I have some 20 6BL7 which i bought in the eBay bargain stores - most of them cost $2-3 each or less. As you mention, they vary in sound, and there is a great confusion about brands. I have GE tubes labeled Tung Sol as an example.
  
 Was looking for the GEC tubes a long time and finally bought a pair that cost me $220 incl shipping. To get a better price you have to look for labels like Osram, MWT, MOV, Marconi, Haltron etc and also be wary of fakes.
  
 Don't have any Ken-Rads yet.
  
 In the past I tried different power tube combinations of four or six tubes, but have reverted to a two-tube set-up. With tubes such as the Tung Sol 7236,5998 and Bendix 6080WB (and the bargain RCA 6080) there is no need for multiple power tubes IMHO.
  
 I am really perfectly satisfied with my Elise and don't find a need to upgrade (except for the upcoming Elise MKII LOL)......


----------



## HOWIE13

@mordy and @richdytch
  
 Inspired by your posts I've played around too- given the awful stormy weather tonight this seemed a sensible thing to do.
  
 Using EL3N drivers I changed my RCA 6BL7s' accompanying power tubes between the modern Russian re-issue T-S 6SN7GTB, and the original T-S 6SN7GTB and a T-S 6SN7GT, both from the 50/60's.
  
 The two TB's were very similar and as you  describe, rather woolly and lacking clarity, but the GT was much better and lacked nothing in neutrality, clarity and imaging. Actually very good sounding.
  
 However, when I switched drivers to the K-R VT231 the sound firmed up all round with all three tubes and sounded very good, but again the 6BL7/ T-S 6SN7GT combo was my favourite. Excellent, rich, clear sound.
  
 As you say, so many tubes combos sound good with Elise- we have so many options.


----------



## richdytch

@Mordy yes, my 6bl7 pairs have different brands despite looking to be of identical construction. I had been thinking of getting some Cetron 7236 since they seem to go for reasonable prices. But currently so happy with this setup that I've lost some motivation to do that. Maybe in the new year. I've heard they're pretty close to the Tung Sol... would you agree?

Trying to avoid thoughts of upgrading the Elise


----------



## richdytch

@howie13 glad to hear you've recreated this setup  - I tried other 6sn7 tubes in the power setup but actually settled on the reissue TSs because of their slight murkiness. My system tends towards being lean/resolving/bright so these with the 6bl7 were the perfect thing to counter that. Definitely a strong partnership between the sn/bl setup and 6sn7 drivers.


----------



## mordy

Trying to figure out which Ken Rad tubes to get - I assume that the VT231 is the same as 6SN7. The prices are all over the map - from $10 to $90 and up.
  
 What should I look for? VT? 6SN7? Clear top? Grey glass? Etc etc


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Trying to figure out which Ken Rad tubes to get - I assume that the VT231 is the same as 6SN7. The prices are all over the map - from $10 to $90 and up.
> 
> What should I look for? VT? 6SN7? Clear top? Grey glass? Etc etc




VT231 is the same as 6SN7, I believe that was just an earlier designation. GE took over the Kentucky Radio factory in something like 1948 and I think the ones made prior to that are considered to be better. That would certainly hold up for my two pairs - the 1950 pair are still wonderful but can't match the silkiness and transparency of the 1944 pair. I've read a lot about the smoked glass ones but there's a school of thought that they're not superior in any way. I can't comment because I've not heard the smoked glass version.

All that said, the 1950 double D getter pair I have are huge fun, and have a lot of character and body. I guess that a lot of the original expertise and source materials remained at he KR factory for quite some time after the GE takeover.


----------



## hypnos1

richdytch said:


> Hi Hypnos, well I'm only a couple of hours' drive from Milton Keynes, so that is very tempting. But to be honest I've been trying to avoid thinking about the Elise_II since I've spent far too much on audio kit this year. However it does give me an added incentive to try harder at work and max out on the bonus
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo, rd...BIG respect for F-A ...they really are miracle workers lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And what can I say...you've just _*got*_ to get working 24/7 for that SUPER bonus!...Why? - just read below...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


richdytch said:


> @howie13 glad to hear you've recreated this setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 MKII will transform those aspects as if by magic lol...FAR, FAR better than _any_ tube(s) can manage by itself(themselves)!!!
  
 However, I can fully understand your quandary re. the MK meet...but it would still be great to put a face to the name lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## HOWIE13

@mordy
  
 Needs to have VT231 printed on it as well as 6SN7.  VT231 means it was made around WW2 period. Most are dark glass but a few have clear glass. The clear glass ones tend to be cheaper as dealers don't always recognise them for what they are. If you see a clear glass one, the plates should be black and offset to each other.
  
 Here's a typical example of the dark glass-but I would personally eschew this one as it has a loose base -hence its low price. 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6SN7GT-VT-231-1940s-Vintage-USA-Vacuum-Tube-Amplitrex-Tested-/282294622598?hash=item41ba121986:g:EvYAAOSwU-pXtNGI


----------



## richdytch

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, rd...BIG respect for F-A ...they really are miracle workers lol!
> 
> And what can I say...you've just _*got*_ to get working 24/7 for that SUPER bonus!...Why? - just read below...
> 
> ...




I'll keep an eye out for the date Hypnos. It's only a short drive and I could use some of my hotel points (the main benefit of spending a lot of time away with work) to stay down rather than having to hurry back! 

Has there been any suggested price for Elise II yet?


----------



## richdytch

richdytch said:


> I'll keep an eye out for the date Hypnos. It's only a short drive and I could use some of my hotel points (the main benefit of spending a lot of time away with work) to stay down rather than having to hurry back!
> 
> Has there been any suggested price for Elise II yet?




Ah, it's 2nd April. The day before my birthday....hmmm


----------



## hypnos1

richdytch said:


> Ah, it's 2nd April. The day before my birthday....hmmm


 
  
 Hmmm indeed, rd....a potential _postponed_ birthday present to yourself lol?...Sorry, mustn't lead you off the straight and narrow - just yet, anyway!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And no word yet on likely price alas - it appears they'll be "brainstorming" the subject when they return from their Christmas break. I know they well deserve their break, but let's hope it isn't _too_ long, eh?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> Tried your 6BL7/6SN7 combination of power tubes. I used a GE BL and the Russian Tung Sol reissue SN tubes - don't have Ken-Rads, so I used my favorite drivers, the EL3N. It is indeed a very nice combination with very good sound.
> 
> ...


 
 From owning both 6AS7G and 6080 GEC  tubes and Tung Sol 5998 for a while, I've found the Tung-Sol's to be quite comparable - often even preferrable to the GEC's. They both have their differences but perform quite on-par; the Tung-Sol's being slightly more spacious / detailed / liquid and perhaps organic, the GEC being more 3D like, more neutral tone and with better imaging. TS 5998 are much more affordable and available.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> In the past I tried different power tube combinations of four or six tubes, but have reverted to a two-tube set-up. *With tubes such as the Tung Sol 7236,5998 and Bendix 6080WB (and the bargain RCA 6080) there is no need for multiple power tubes IMHO.*


 
 I'm a happy man to see such proclamation from someone who have tried it all.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'm a happy man to see such proclamation from someone who have tried it all.


 
  
 Yes indeed, UT....@mordy has surely put many combinations through their paces, with due diligence, patience and thoroughness. I'm only glad he (like myself!) was fortunate enough to snaffle a nice pair of the GECs for a _fairly_ reasonable price lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It does sadden me that they usually command rather silly figures.... but with patience, scrutiny and determination (plus a good dose of LUCK!), relative bargains do sometimes come along - and are well worth the extra effort IMHO....so, GOOD HUNTING!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And to any who may not yet have visited the "Impressions" thread...*A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS *to you...and continued joy with your Elise throughout the New Year - and beyond!!   CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

Merry Christmas!


----------



## richdytch

Season's greetings to all!


----------



## DecentLevi

OK I'm calling a meeting to everybody here, especially @richdytch and anyone else who's recently been intrigued by_ (or should I say mislead by)_ mixed quad power setups on the Elise. @mordy you may be interested, and @UntilThen feel free to add anything too.
  
Motivated by the rekindled interest that has sprung up here recently on multi-tube power setups, I thought I'd spend the evening doing some direct A/B comparisons of multi quad power tubes compared with higher caliber single power tubes. Although this is coming from somebody who owns essentially all the flagship power tubes (GEC's, slotted graphite plate Bendix 6080, Mullard 6080, RCA 6080, TS 5998, 421A, etc.), I had done this assessment objectively, without any preconceived notions on which setup type or appearance should sound better - sound is the most important thing in the quest is for audio nirvana.
 
So I dusted off my old 6SN7 to dual 6BL7 adapters from the closet where they have been since earlier this year while I have since moved many, many steps up above them on the audio fidelity latter. I had to swap tubes around a few times to discover my favorite pairing, which was 6BL7 + GE 6SN7 GTA with 'Bad Boy' 6SN7's as drivers_ (shown below)_. After three distinct warning signs from the Elise (more below), initial impression was that this sounds quite great, and scales well with my improved upstream gear (DAC components) into the Elise. Tonality and dynamics were OK, but nothing moved me too much.
 ​  

Next up RCA 6080 as powers:
Tonality was the same but the RCA 6080's are more vivid, organic, intimate and smooth. Putting back in the former quad powers makes it sound somewhat dry / sterile / non-engaging by comparison.
 ​ _note: the black disks under the tubes are 'socket savers' which aid to prolong the lifespan of the sockets and save the Elise from frying. The "one tube per socket" setups do not need an adapter, but the socket savers are nice._

 
Next up: GEC 6AS7G as powers:
A whole new level of realism and enjoyment has opened up. It seems a little difficult to explain the sonic differences between these and the quad setup so I'll explain by analogy. The comparison seems akin to coming out of a dusty, cold humid room where you're sometimes chaffed by sandpaper versus this where you're inside a lofty, luxurious reality and far away from that nasty artificial reality experience of a former life.
 ​  
Next up Tung Sol 5998 as powers: 
_(after having just listened to the multi quad setup again)_
Gobstoppingly more lifelike and deeper into the scene with realism and truuee-life energy packed to the brim compared to the quad setup. Drums are now real and no more artificial feeling I was getting from the quad setup. Layering / imaging is improved by what seems like a hefty 400%
​  

Next, the mixed quad setup of dual 6BL7 + dual EL3N: Sounds very "back row", while retaining all of the _*negative*_ qualities of the above multi-quad setup which to me were dull, flat, slightly fake, and non-engaging. I also compared the quad setup to my Bendix slotted graphite plate tubes and the sound from the Bendix was much "deeper into the scene", much more vivid, sweet and 3D.
 
To an untrained listener, or even a pro user on a fresh day, those mixed quad power tube setups could sound good - even great. But after comparison to the power tubes which are universally undisputed champions, these really don't hold any water to a proper setup of good power tubes, as the way our expert engineers at Feliks Audio designed it to be used: "one tube per socket".
 
Folks to put it into literal perspective, I received _three _warning signs from the moment I switched on the Elise with mixed quad power tubes: both a hum on one channel then a channel imbalance which morphed into a rippling distortion sound in one channel until it fully warmed up, and a sound that developed on right channel like rustling of leaves and remained on the Elise even with a complete tube change out to native-class tubes.
 
Dual 6SN7 + dual 6BL7 on Elise: You're doing it wrong, and you're endangering your Elise. Something isn't completely sound electrically with this setup and Elise is trying to tell us so. Invest just $20 or so on RCA 6080's and you'll get a vastly better power tube setup. Myself and at least two others have bought a pair from Langrex in the UK and received them in mint condition, in no time with expert packaging! Here's the link (just email them with your inquiry), you'll thank me later I assure you!!!!
 
 ​  ​  ​  
  

While at it, I also gave it a go with miniature power tubes; replacing each of 6SN7 and 6BL7 with one pair of either 12AV7, E80CC and  ECC88 via their 6SN7 adapters, to which I got appalling results. Appallingly horrible! Very loud hum in both channels, super low volume, and a very ugly sound _after _turning off the amp, akin to rustling of dishes in a sink... believe me I would not make up something like that! And now my Elise is off with everything unplugged in hopes that rustling sound in the right channel I hear even with native tubes, will dissipate - one that began only when I inserted in that evil mixed quad contraption. Suffice it to say that as far as I'm concerned, any non-matched types of power tubes should never be used as powers in the Elise - and by that I mean that a _possible _exception may be had for quad 6BL7-only or quad EL3N-only, rather than mix & match types. For me personally, quad power tubes will never again touch my Elise, with the only exception of quad EL3N.


----------



## Spork67

Oops.
 Is this the 2nd Elise you've damaged with your multi-tube experimentation?


----------



## UntilThen

Am I glad you've finally come to this conclusion @DecentLevi.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Let me put it plainly. If you have all the recommended power tubes such as 
  
 gec 6as7g
 gec 6080
 Bendix 6080
 WE 421A
 Tung Sol 5998
 Tung Sol 7236
 Chatham 6as7g
 Mullard 6080
 RCA 6080
  
 with a selection of drivers.
  
 and you're still not happy with the sound from Elise, then it's time you find another amp or you need a new headphone.
  
 Multi power tubes only apparent advantage to me is the seemingly wider soundstage but at the expense of less vividness and clarity. You can achieve wider soundstage by other means too. If you have another tube amp like the Darkvoice 336se, you can use Elise as preamp into DV to get a wider soundstage but you're diluting the sound. I've tried that in the past and have just left it alone - not recommended !
  
 Just listening to everyone's taste in music, I've a fair idea which power tubes will appeal to them. DL, you weren't too endeared to 5998 initially but I knew you'll warm up to it over time. With the music you're listening to, 5998 will provide the intensity, punch and energy in your ECM.
  
 That dual adapter for 6BL7 and 6SN7 can be a curse rather than a blessing. I've seen so many of you throwing caution to the wind and just about try to fit any tubes in it. We don't know what the long term effects will be on Elise but I sure hate to see anyone destroying their tube amps with prolong experimentation and usage. It is the same reason I'm against using an external power supply in Elise. It is going a bridge too far.
  
 I've also cut down on my usage of 6xEL3Ns. It's only making an appearance because it's red and it's Christmas. There are better ways to make Elise sound her best with those power tubes I list above paired with a good selection of drivers discussed here.
  
 This is just my view. Everyone has a right to how they wish to roll in their Elise but you won't find me encouraging multi power tubes.
  
 Note:- I did think that the sound from 6SN7 as drivers and 6BL7 + 6SN7 as power tubes is pretty good but it's not better than using single pair of recommended power tubes. I also don't know what impairment it might have on Elise in the long term. Therefore I don't recommend it.


----------



## DecentLevi

spork67 said:


> Oops.
> Is this the 2nd Elise you've damaged with your multi-tube experimentation?


 
 Nope, fortunately after just 30 min. of everything unplugged from my Elise including RCA cables, power cables & all tubes out, she forgave me and is simmered down problem free now back to normal tubes! The first Elise I ruined I couldn't know for sure whether or not the mixed class tubes were the cause, but now I see a connection when the same issue was just starting to set in when trying these mixed class setups... so let this be a main reason for anyone else around here to recycle this setup... get better sonic performance and a longer lasting amp with a simpler setup.
  
 And UT, well written. Let's hope the others heed our call too. I did this on my Christmas evening for you guys, comparing multi set-ups to simple ones, to hopefully prove a point. Actually I did have some hope that I may get even better sound out of a new miniature tube power concoction, but only to realise the stock-class ones are better.


----------



## Spork67

decentlevi said:


> spork67 said:
> 
> 
> > Oops.
> ...


 
 Glad to hear it DL.
 Elise is certainly versatile, but she's a finely crafted piece of audio equipment, not some kind of lab rat.


----------



## DecentLevi

Miniature _driver _tubes on the other hand are a whole other story, and my current favorite all time driver tube is Tungsram E80CC which has been largely outdoing all other FDD20, EL3N, 6SN7, etc. driver tubes I've tried, and are "one tube per socket", not any multi mixed types. These are 12v tubes which run in 6v mode with a 12AU7 adapter - these were part of the Elise's remedy when I brought her back around to single tubes tonight, have been tested long term. Elise loves these and and runs in normal temperature with 0 hum and absolutely 0.000000000% signs of trouble.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> so let this be a main reason for anyone else around here to recycle this setup... *get better sonic performance and a longer lasting amp with a simpler setup.*
> 
> I did this on my Christmas evening for you guys, comparing multi set-ups to simple ones, to hopefully prove a point. Actually I did have some hope that I may get even better sound out of a new miniature tube power concoction, but only to realise the stock-class ones are better.


 
 Well done DL. Thanks for doing work on Christmas evening. That in bold is my motto. Don't deviate too far from the amp's design.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @DecentLevi...glad to hear you've "dun seen the light" lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and also issued a stern warning. I truly hope you haven't done permanent damage to your amp - it is indeed quite possible that this kind of experimentation may have contributed to your first unfortunate experience. Hopefully yours is plain sailing from now on...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 At this point - and I hope I'm not sounding like "sour grapes", I feel I must vent the last remnants of my frustration at this thread having been to all intents and purposes 'derailed' a long while ago now, after my constant pleas for restraint on this subject...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 However, the plus side is that @pctazhp started up yet another Elise thread of course, which has also proved to be one of the busiest on the forum lol!!...WELL DONE, pct!...and just proves that this amp has indeed confirmed its place as "The best sub-$900 tube amp - _*ever*_...PERIOD"!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And so I wish all Elise owners continued, _*safe*_ enjoyment of their well-chosen piece of tube amplification...both for HPs _and_ as first class pre-amp!!..CHEERS!...


----------



## richdytch

OK. It's a very long time since I felt like a naughty schoolboy but the 6bl7/6sn7 power tubes have been removed and I'm now running RCA 6080. I have to say though, that in my particular system, no combination of any of the 6080 tubes I own, with either 6sn7 or el3n, sounds anywhere near as nice as the sn/bl setup I was running with good 6sn7 drivers. I just demoed the difference to a friend who concluded without prompting that the bl/sn config sounded far better. 

But I'm happy to accept your well-intentioned warnings and will go back to the drawing board. Looks like I might be having something of a tube sale in the near future as I try to acquire some Bendix 6080, TS 5998 or GEC 6as7g. Cetron 7236 are also on my horizon. 

My reading of the reams of info on quad power tube setups had led me to conclude that 6bl7/6sn7 was OK, but I obviously missed quite a lot of info. I should point out that I'd never experienced any noise or distortion with that setup that suggested the amp was struggling. But I know that 'no noise' doesn't equate to safe.

One popular setup I've never been able to use is quad el3n -that results in nothing more than hideous buzz. 

Onwards and upwards.


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi. My hat is off to you for your major undertaking. Thanks.
  
 For some reason, I never got very excited about the multi-tube approach. Even the quad EL3N power set up didn't rock my boat, unlike the experience of most others.
  
 Also, in my experience I rate both GEC power tubes, as well as the Bendix 6080 above the TS5998. Again, I just never warmed up too much to the 5998s, but I know they are very highly regarded tubes. Fortunately, just about all of us have found our bliss with Elise. @hypnos1is now beyond bliss, and as usual creating strain on pocketbooks all over the world.


----------



## Jozurr

Ive decided to sell my ECC31 NOS pair which I think works well on the elise from what Ive read. its up in the FS forum.


----------



## MusclePharm

Hey guys, what cans would you recommend to someone who listens mainly to rock/metal? Between Beyer's T1 2nd Generation and the Sennheiser HD800?


----------



## DecentLevi

I would recommend the Mr. Speakers Ether C or Ether C Flow but it's @ $1,500 - $1,800. So otherwise I'd give 'big-ups' to the Senn. HD-600... get _at least_ 70% the performance of the HD-800 for 1/3rd the price, and some stellar dynamics, FR, soundstage and voicing to boot!


----------



## MusclePharm

decentlevi said:


> I would recommend the Mr. Speakers Ether C or Ether C Flow but it's @ $1,500 - $1,800. So otherwise I'd give 'big-ups' to the Senn. HD-600... get _at least_ 70% the performance of the HD-800 for 1/3rd the price, and some stellar dynamics, FR, soundstage and voicing to boot!


 
 Unfortunately they're way above my budget and for that price I could get the HD800 S... Besides, I'm having a hard time finding any in EU...
 You recommend HD600 instead of the T1 2nd Generation too?
  
 I do have the HD650 so I'm looking for something on a superior league...


----------



## Spork67

I had T1G1 and listen to a lot of hard rock and metal. Loved them.
 Haven't heard the HD800s.


----------



## inthere

musclepharm said:


> Unfortunately they're way above my budget and for that price I could get the HD800 S... Besides, I'm having a hard time finding any in EU...
> You recommend HD600 instead of the T1 2nd Generation too?
> 
> I do have the HD650 so I'm looking for something on a superior league...





Beyerdynamic DT 1770 is the headphone that turned me on to Feliks Audio, but I look up the DT1990 as I think it may be even better...........


----------



## DavidA

musclepharm said:


> Unfortunately they're way above my budget and for that price I could get the HD800 S... Besides, I'm having a hard time finding any in EU...
> You recommend HD600 instead of the T1 2nd Generation too?
> 
> I do have the HD650 so I'm looking for something on a superior league...


 
 To me the HD650 with the Elise was not a pairing I cared for, a little to warm and tuby (stock tubes in Elise which if changed might be good)
  
 I had a HD600, the peak at 4-5khz bothered me with some tracks, sold it once I built an Ypsilon driver build.
  
 Still have HD-700, HD-800, T1g1 and a few others which sound great with the Elise, a HE-560 is also a great sounding headphone but doesn't pair well with the Elise, much better with hybrid or warm SS amps.
  
 Tried a HD-800S a few times and I will get one later, its different enough from the original HD-800 that I could see owning both.  Didn't care for the T1g2 but didn't spend enough time with them to give a full evaluation.
  
 Tried the Ether, Ether C and Ether C flow, didn't care for any of them, a little bass lite to me and also better driven with a hybrid or warm SS than an OTL like the Elise.  FWIW a friend who has the EtherC Flow likes my Ypsilon better and most that have heard the Ypsilon think its a very good sounding headphone that is easy to drive and will sound great without any amps.  They are not the cheapest DIY, about $350-400 for parts.
  
 I would suggest trying a lower model Stax like one of the SRS systems which include the headphone and amp, quite reasonable priced and better all around headphones than the more pricy SR-009/007.


----------



## MIKELAP

The sockets in the first Elise are recessed and because of that if i recall  6080 tubes couldnt be used without adapters i see there's an updated Elise in 2017 did the company remedy this ? or the sockets are still recessed and cant accept 6080 without adapters. I see the Euforia sockets are flush with case.


----------



## Spork67

mikelap said:


> The sockets in the first Elise are recessed and because of that if i recall  6080 tubes couldnt be used without adapters i see there's an updated Elise in 2017 did the company remedy this ? or the sockets are still recessed and cant accept 6080 without adapters. I see the Euforia sockets are flush with case.


 
 The later ones were flush. Mine was #79, and the issue was rectified well before that one came off the production line.


----------



## DecentLevi

Only the first several Elise units that were sold had recessed tube slots, both I had received starting March last year already had flush sockets


----------



## MIKELAP

Might go for the Euforia got till the end of the month for that 10% off havent read much on it yet will jump over to the Euforia thread to get an idea of sound signature of the amp and if there's infos comparing it to the Elise .Thanks guys


----------



## aqsw

mikelap said:


> Might go for the Euforia got till the end of the month for that 10% off havent read much on it yet will jump over to the Euforia thread to get an idea of sound signature of the amp and if there's infos comparing it to the Elise .Thanks guys


 
 Go for it Mike.,
 You only live once.
 And you can say you owned a Euforia!!!
  
 Low serial #s will be nice too. Nobody wants serial #6227. I think you can get #5.


----------



## aqsw

mikelap said:


> The sockets in the first Elise are recessed and because of that if i recall  6080 tubes couldnt be used without adapters i see there's an updated Elise in 2017 did the company remedy this ? or the sockets are still recessed and cant accept 6080 without adapters. I see the Euforia sockets are flush with case.


 
 Use socket savers. Saves the sockets and who cares about recessed!


----------



## MIKELAP

aqsw said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Might go for the Euforia got till the end of the month for that 10% off havent read much on it yet will jump over to the Euforia thread to get an idea of sound signature of the amp and if there's infos comparing it to the Elise .Thanks guys
> ...


 
 Believe me i lived plenty lol, and my wife would agree with this statement lol. Early model is not really important what's important is how does it compare to my WA22? That is the question right now if you figure it will be in the end in the  same price bracket when everything is added up


----------



## DecentLevi

@MIKELAP I'm just a little curious why you would still want another amp such as the Euforia if you've already got the WA2 +22, WA6 and Glenn amps? That would be super interesting though to read your future impressions of these compared, on the Euforia thread.


----------



## MIKELAP

decentlevi said:


> @MIKELAP I'm just a little curious why you would still want another amp such as the Euforia if you've already got the WA2 +22, WA6 and Glenn amps? That would be super interesting though to read your future impressions of these compared, on the Euforia thread.


 
 Actually just sold the WA2 and the WA6 and i dont have a Glenn amp.To answer your question . For me the best analogy is to compare amps to ice cream flavors  i remember mordy mentioning this or something similar once .I like to try the different  flavors that are out there to me all  amps have something to offer .But if i pull the trigger on the Euforia hopefully it would bring yet another flavor to the table different from the WA22 and my other amps , and  also because i love this stuff.


----------



## hypnos1

mikelap said:


> Actually just sold the WA2 and the WA6 and i dont have a Glenn amp.To answer your question . For me the best analogy is to compare amps to ice cream flavors  i remember mordy mentioning this or something similar once .I like to try the different  flavors that are out there to me all  amps have something to offer .But if i pull the trigger on the Euforia hopefully it would bring yet another flavor to the table different from the WA22 and my other amps , and  also because i love this stuff.


 
  
 I like your style, M...and I must admit it would be GREAT to have a side-by-side comparison of Euforia and WA22! The new amp will most definitely fare better in the ring than Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...especially from brief impressions caught at our last local meet in Cambridge (and that was with C3gSs driving GEC CV2523s in Elise lol!).
  
 Hope my post on Euforia thread helped guide you to a bit more info on both amps...


----------



## MIKELAP

hypnos1 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Actually just sold the WA2 and the WA6 and i dont have a Glenn amp.To answer your question . For me the best analogy is to compare amps to ice cream flavors  i remember mordy mentioning this or something similar once .I like to try the different  flavors that are out there to me all  amps have something to offer .But if i pull the trigger on the Euforia hopefully it would bring yet another flavor to the table different from the WA22 and my other amps , and  also because i love this stuff.
> ...


 
 I would say review of Elise and infos on Euforia and words like Neutral does sound familiar to me using the WA22 there will be only  one way to find out,and since i still have a couple pairs of C3G and C3GS that i cant use in the Woo amps ,i would definetely find a use for them in the Euforia. altough Littledot is still active


----------



## mordy

Hi mikelap,
  
 My Elise is #9 and it has flush sockets, so that was corrected early.
  
 The Elise has the best flavors - just change the tubes if you get tired of one. Everything sounds good in the Elise, but in the words of one of my grandchildren, some are gooder than others.
  
 I have an Euforia on order, inv #100.
  
 It seems to me that many of the tubes you already have are usable in the Euforia. ATM I am running 6N23P and Bendix 6080 with great results.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi mikelap,
> 
> My Elise is #9 and it has flush sockets, so that was corrected early.
> 
> ...


 
 That's why im tempted i already have all these tubes and also i have been using for a while with adapters 5670, 396A, 6N26P etcs.,and also the 12v/6v tubes with adapters 12ATT 12AX7 ects.The only thing holding me back is the exchange rate and duty's hard to justify paying an extra $700.00+ for a $1,300.Amp


----------



## DavidA

What happened to everyone?  Both this and Euforia thread have been so quiet?  I was waiting for some great music recommendations since its New Years Eve for Chinese and Korean new year.


----------



## drwlf

davida said:


> What happened to everyone?  Both this and Euforia thread have been so quiet?  I was waiting for some great music recommendations since its New Years Eve for Chinese and Korean new year.


 
  
 Do you mean the Euforia-thread? 
 What are you in mood for!


----------



## DavidA

drwlf said:


> Do you mean the Euforia-thread?
> What are you in mood for!


 
 Hi Drwlf, the guy on the Euforia thread have made me happy this morning, got some great music recommendations and some oldies that I haven't listened to in a while


----------



## drwlf

davida said:


> Hi Drwlf, the guy on the Euforia thread have made me happy this morning, got some great music recommendations and some oldies that I haven't listened to in a while


 

 Good to hear! Hope you had a lovely rest of the day as well.
 Time to start the BBQ season here in Finland. +1 and its raining.


----------



## UntilThen

inthere said:


> Beyerdynamic DT 1770 is the headphone that turned me on to Feliks Audio, but I look up the DT1990 as I think it may be even better...........


 
  
 Tried your Utopia with Elise? Any good? Nice collection of gear. You obviously love Feliks Audio.


----------



## Jozurr

I've just received my Elise amp and I've been trying to read through for some impressions on various tube combos, but it's just so much information with so many various kinds of tubes, I got lost many times over. I know some of my favourite 6SN7 type tubes which I think Im going to use. Im looking for Dynamic sound, which has very good speed and attack and good bass, and has transparent sound with decent shimmery highs. What I am NOT looking for, is slow, dark, euphonic, mellow, laid back sound. For this, what do you guys recommend as power tubes? Maybe I can start with that and see which of my favourite 6SN7 types work best for it.
  
 Also, if you guys can recommend maybe a couple of combos for the kind of sound im looking for, Id be happy to read up on those tubes further. 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DecentLevi

@Jozurr
*Here's* a good recent starting point for useful info. on tubes from the newest Elise thread. You can get a better answer there. Tubes sound different according to the headphones used too so let us know there which ones you're using.


----------



## DavidA

jozurr said:


> I've just received my Elise amp and I've been trying to read through for some impressions on various tube combos, but it's just so much information with so many various kinds of tubes, I got lost many times over. I know some of my favourite 6SN7 type tubes which I think Im going to use. Im looking for Dynamic sound, which has very good speed and attack and good bass, and has transparent sound with decent shimmery highs. What I am NOT looking for, is slow, dark, euphonic, mellow, laid back sound. For this, what do you guys recommend as power tubes? Maybe I can start with that and see which of my favourite 6SN7 types work best for it.
> 
> Also, if you guys can recommend maybe a couple of combos for the kind of sound im looking for, Id be happy to read up on those tubes further.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Surprised you got a Elise for the headphones in your signature, most would sound better with the amps you have.  I take it the 6SN7 tubes are from you Liquid Glass, I had my friends one for a month and loved it, not many amps can compare to it.


----------



## Jozurr

davida said:


> Surprised you got a Elise for the headphones in your signature, most would sound better with the amps you have.  I take it the 6SN7 tubes are from you Liquid Glass, I had my friends one for a month and loved it, not many amps can compare to it.


 
  
 I got the Elise to try to see how it sounds vs the Glass, as well as to see if tubes like EL3N, EL11, C3G etc sound better on the Elise than 6SN7/12SN7 on the Glass. The Glass doesnt run all these other tubes in its 6SN7 sockets as it trips the security functions. I also have headphones like TH-X00, EMU Teak, Z1R which I want to try on the Elise. I might just eventually not end up keeping the Elise if I feel like it doesn't bring anything extra to the table than what I already have, but obviously curiosity got the best of me


----------



## vl4dimir

Guys, noob here but how the hell do yo put the EL3N in their adaptors ?
  
 Edit: never mind, was a little bit afraid to push too hard


----------



## UntilThen

vl4dimir said:


> Guys, noob here but how the hell do yo put the EL3N in their adaptors ?
> 
> Edit: never mind, was a little bit afraid to push too hard


 
  
 A little elbow grease as you would have discovered.


----------



## Oskari

According to gibosi, lubrication could help.




gibosi said:


> My least favorite base is the side-contact base. I am finding it very hard to remove these tubes from the adapter socket. On several occasions, the glass bottle has come lose from the base and I have had to re-glue it. To say the least, this is a pain. Anyway, I have decided to try some electrical control/contact cleaner and lubricant spray to see if that makes it any easier.







gibosi said:


> And I am pleased to report that the electrical control/contact cleaner and lubricant spray seems to help. I received a Philips Eindhoven-made AZ4 from the late 1930's today, applied the lubricant to the adapter and the base, and insertion and extraction is now much easier. Life is good.




Now what was it and how was it applied?


----------



## gibosi

It is primarily a tuner lubricate, but suitable for any electrical-mechanical device where there is friction and movement. I have used this lube on light-bulb threads for years now, to make it easier to unscrew them when they burn out. So figured it should be safe used on tube pins and sockets.
  
 I spray a little onto a cotton swab, or Q-tip, and dab it on to the contacts in the socket and on the tube. Afterwards, I use another clean cotton swab to wipe off any excess lubricant on the chance it might cause a short between adjacent contacts.
  
 So far so good.


----------



## Oskari

Thanks for the information, gibosi.


----------



## mordy

I too, sweated bullets putting in and removing the paddle footed tubes (EL3N).
  
 To me the trick is to just push them straight in, and to remove just straight out - no rocking motion as with other sockets. Once the tubes have been moved in and out a couple of times, it goes easier.


----------



## jelt2359

EL3N users, my Glenn EL3N amp sometimes seems to have contact lose and no sound when I insert it. Any tips what I can do to get a perfect fit every time?
  
 PS it always seems to be the same side (left), so I wonder if it's a socket issue? Anyway to 'reset' the socket?


----------



## HOWIE13

jelt2359 said:


> EL3N users, my Glenn EL3N amp sometimes seems to have contact lose and no sound when I insert it. Any tips what I can do to get a perfect fit every time?
> 
> PS it always seems to be the same side (left), so I wonder if it's a socket issue? Anyway to 'reset' the socket?


 
  
 EL3N socket contact can become quite loose but I don't know your particular amp.
  
 Haven't you contacted the manufacturer for advice?


----------



## jelt2359

I have, but he's built only one of these so far. I figure you guys may have more experiences with these tubes and these sockets


----------



## UntilThen

jelt2359 said:


> EL3N users, my Glenn EL3N amp sometimes seems to have contact lose and no sound when I insert it. Any tips what I can do to get a perfect fit every time?
> 
> PS it always seems to be the same side (left), so I wonder if it's a socket issue? Anyway to 'reset' the socket?


 
  
 Jelt, this is the easy way to renew it. Use a small flat screw driver and insert into the bottom slot of the contact as shown in the picture. Press downwards gently on the top handle of the screw driver, creating a fulcrum motion and the middle part of the contact will be pushed outwards.
  
 Do this for all the 8 contacts.


----------



## jelt2359

untilthen said:


> Jelt, this is the easy way to renew it. Use a small flat screw driver and insert into the bottom slot of the contact as shown in the picture. Press downwards gently on the top handle of the screw driver, creating a fulcrum motion and the middle part of the contact will be pushed outwards.
> 
> Do this for all the 8 contacts.




Thanks! And for the tube itself? Do I pull out the paddles?


----------



## UntilThen

Don't touch the paddles on the tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

Speaking of paddles, do you know what one boat said to the other one?
  
 It's time for some row-mance.


----------



## connieflyer

The girls can't come home soon enough you are slipping away fast


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> The girls can't come home soon enough you are *slipping away* fast


 
  
 Your wish is my command.


----------



## whirlwind

jelt2359 said:


> EL3N users, my Glenn EL3N amp sometimes seems to have contact lose and no sound when I insert it. Any tips what I can do to get a perfect fit every time?
> 
> PS it always seems to be the same side (left), so I wonder if it's a socket issue? Anyway to 'reset' the socket?


 
  
 Don't scare me Jason, I just sent payment for my Lundahl transformers for this amp !


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Don't scare me Jason, I just sent payment for my Lundahl transformers for this amp !


 
  
 If it's the contacts that has been pushed in, it's quite easily remedied by doing what I described above. Glenn's EL3N amp is another amp I would to listen to. As well as his OTL amp and Zana Deux and DNA Stratus.
  
 Too many tube amps to try. Can't possibly buy them all.


----------



## whirlwind

Thanks, yeah it looks like a fairly easy fix.....they are 10,000 hour tubes, so once they are in they can stay for a long time, and can concentrate on rolling rectifiers, lol
  
 Your La Figaro 339 looks nice  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hear you...way to many tube amps....so little money and time!


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Thanks, yeah it looks like a fairly easy fix.....they are 10,000 hour tubes, so once they are in they can stay for a long time, and can concentrate on rolling rectifiers, lol
> 
> Your La Figaro 339 looks nice
> 
> ...


 
 When you get the EL3N amp, alert me. I want to see your photos and hear your impressions.


----------



## 2359glenn

whirlwind said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > EL3N users, my Glenn EL3N amp sometimes seems to have contact lose and no sound when I insert it. Any tips what I can do to get a perfect fit every time?
> ...


 

 The Chinese side pin sockets are not the best. Maybe I should buy some European Used side pin sockets and pick out the good ones.


----------



## jelt2359

2359glenn said:


> The Chinese side pin sockets are not the best. Maybe I should buy some European Used side pin sockets and pick out the good ones.


 
 My experience with these is that you set them once, and you'll never have to touch them again.
  
 Good thing there's no rolling of EL3N!


----------



## jelt2359

untilthen said:


> If it's the contacts that has been pushed in, it's quite easily remedied by doing what I described above. Glenn's EL3N amp is another amp I would to listen to. As well as his OTL amp and Zana Deux and DNA Stratus.
> 
> Too many tube amps to try. Can't possibly buy them all.


 
 I've heard all of those, except the ZD. But then I also own others. I would say Glenn's amps play among the top. I think when you consider price to performance ratio, it's ridiculous. My Teton is quieter and smoother, but it's also so much more pricy and much less versatile in terms of impedance and tube rolling. My EC Studio is more spacious and holographic, but the EL3N is so much better value for money, has the sweetest purest tone in the single-stage mode, and the ability to massively change the sound (adding much more macrodynamics) in the dual-stage mode.


----------



## mordy

The other thing is how you insert and take out the paddle feet tubes: just push straight in and pull straight out. No rocking and also make sure to line up contacts properly.
You may have to push harder than you like with a new socket, but the Chinese socket adapters I have did loosen up after use


----------



## UntilThen

jelt2359 said:


> I've heard all of those, except the ZD. But then I also own others. I would say Glenn's amps play among the top. I think when you consider price to performance ratio, it's ridiculous. My Teton is quieter and smoother, but it's also so much more pricy and much less versatile in terms of impedance and tube rolling. My EC Studio is more spacious and holographic, but the EL3N is so much better value for money, has the sweetest purest tone in the single-stage mode, and the ability to massively change the sound (adding much more macrodynamics) in the dual-stage mode.


 
  
 Some insight from someone who has heard it. I must say that from a past photo of Glenn's EL3N amp, she's a good looker. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do envy that you've tried Teton, EC Studio and DNA Stratus and even own it.


----------



## whirlwind

untilthen said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, yeah it looks like a fairly easy fix.....they are 10,000 hour tubes, so once they are in they can stay for a long time, and can concentrate on rolling rectifiers, lol
> ...


 
 Will do.


----------



## HOWIE13

Really impressed with dual EL12spez powers and EL11 drivers. Sounds perfect to my ears.
  
 Slightly warm of neutral, detailed and resolving, dynamic and involving. This is very impressive sound. Vast sound-stage, probably the best I've experienced with T1. 
  
 I tried EL3N drivers too. Also very good, not quite as deep a sound-stage and treble just a little too prominent on some tracks-on others it was fine.
  
 Overall, I prefer the EL11's with dual EL12spez power tubes. They seem to have special synergy with each other.
  
  
  

  
  
 Power tubes-  EL12spez: an RFT/RWN and a Telefunken each channel
  
 Drivers       -   EL11 Telefunken.
  
 As always the wires of the adapters need well insulating as has been discussed on the later thread, starting on this page:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/6390


----------



## UntilThen

Adventurous Howie. Let's not even start counting the cost of your tubes and adapters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh well as long as you're enjoying it.... cost is best hidden under the closet.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Adventurous Howie. Let's not even start counting the cost of your tubes and adapters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Did you ever see the photograph of all my headphones hanging on my wife's shoe stand, (both sides)?
  
 I won't re-post the picture-some people had nightmares last time .LOL


----------



## Riverstalker

Anybody within the EU wants to buy a brand new Elise ? I get Tinitus when hearing with headphones ... Got to sell my baby


----------



## UntilThen

riverstalker said:


> Anybody within the EU wants to buy a brand new Elise ? I get Tinitus when hearing with headphones ... Got to sell my baby


 
  
 Sorry to hear about your Tinitus. 
  
 It's better to post on this thread. Everyone is over there now.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/7485#post_13330056


----------



## Riverstalker

Ok thx mate, it was a nice journey going for the Elise and reading all about it ! It's a mess, I can't even go to the cinema right now. Have to be really careful and hope it goes away sooner or later. All the best guys !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nickbojko

I have been watching this post from the beginning and I think the tube swapping has run its course.It's time to step up the game and proceed to improve the amp itself.First change the input coupling cap with a solid piece of OCC silver wire{big sonic improvement}.Second add a bypass cap to the 2.2uf output capacitor{two top picks are a .033 to .050uf teflon cap from russia or Jupitor copper foil of same value,the russian cap needs to be modded-remove aluminum cover and replace the leads with occ siver wire,I have complete instuctions for those interested.I strongly recommend replacing all signal path wiring with solid occ silver wire.Seems production costs have used standed average wire in signal path.These changes will make a bigger sonic improvement than chasing the tube swap monster.Not that tube swapping is not an improvement but you will hear things you have not heard before and more musically natural and real.After this is complete I will have more updates for you since my unit is far from stock!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

jerick70 said:


> Sounds like an incredible DAC. That's some pretty impressive company it bested. I'm definitely going to have to go listen.



Hi. Up here in Peterborough, there was a device called the Wyrestorm EXP-CON-DAC-D. Is this the same device you're referring to?


----------



## DecentLevi

@nickbojko I have replied here on the currently active Elise thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...ost-for-summary.813488/page-540#post-13490646


----------



## jerick70

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Hi. Up here in Peterborough, there was a device called the Wyrestorm EXP-CON-DAC-D. Is this the same device you're referring to?



That was a while ago.  I can't remember which DAC we were discussing.  I think it may have been one of the Hegel DACs.


----------



## aqsw

I really like my Hegel HD12. It comes in at below the $1500.00.

Footprint is the same size as the Elise or Euphoria, and it's black too. Makes for a good looking pair.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0115/Hegel_HD12_DAC_Review.htm


----------



## pctazhp

aqsw said:


> I really like my Hegel HD12. It comes in at below the $1500.00.
> 
> Footprint is the same size as the Elise or Euphoria, and it's black too. Makes for a good looking pair.
> 
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0115/Hegel_HD12_DAC_Review.htm



Bimby multibit is $600 as compared to $1,400.. It is not balanced but using it with Elise or Euforia that shouldn't matter. Bimby won't handle DSD, but to me (and I suspect most people) that is irrelevant.

He compares the HD12 to many other DACs under $2,500, but doesn't indicates which ones. For me, there is nothing in his review that would lead me to feel a need to upgrade my Bimby to HD12. I admit to being biased, and if I do upgrade it will likely be up the Schiit line. Of course, if you have carefully evaluated the HD12 at home then your favorable view of it is certainly important.


----------



## aqsw

There are other reviews where they compare it to other dacs.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hegel-hd12-dsd-compatible-dac/

I was referring the under $1500.00 to Untils post.

Not fair to compare a $600 Schiit to the Hegel though. Everybody has their own budget and feelings on different makes.


----------



## pctazhp (May 17, 2017)

aqsw said:


> There are other reviews where they compare it to other dacs.
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hegel-hd12-dsd-compatible-dac/
> 
> ...



Of course everyone has their own budgets and opinions. But that doesn't lead to the conclusion that something that costs more is going to automatically sound better. Especially where at least part of the cost difference can be attributable to features that one would not need - such as in my case balanced circuitry and ability to process DSD. I once heard someone say that it requires much more talent to design something within tight cost constraints than to design something without having to worry much about cost.

As a lawyer I know that I can almost always find an "expert" to testify in court in support of my position. I feel the same way about many "experts" who write "professional" reviews. If I like a particular piece of gear I can almost always find a published review to reinforce my own opinion. I actually put more stock in amateur reviews and posts and trends I see in those. But even with those I try to keep on hand a good supply of grains of salt.  I can certainly find a lot of posts on HeadFi to support my own belief in the SQ of Bimby. I can also find a lot of posts that talk about how wonderful Valhalla 2 is, which does not comport with my own personal experience.

For me so much of what gets discussed on HeadFi and in "professional reviews" is mainly mental masturbation or people playing mind games. In the end I draw my own conclusions based on my own at home experiences.


----------



## aqsw

In the end I draw my own conclusions based on my own at home experiences.

Me too!


----------



## blackrain139

Guys,

I'm a new Elise owner and I'm loving this wonderful amp.

Does anyone here encounter the occasional "hum/buzz"? It is a short 1 sec hum/buzz and it happens intermittently and at random times - every 30 secs to 2 mins.

It only happens after the amp is warm/hot after 1-2 hours of playing time. I'm using the stock power tubes and the upgraded PSVane driver tubes


----------



## Gjoel

Time to share a bit, and not only read 

i'm also a fairly new Elise owner, around 2 months. Using it in a bedroom setup with a Auralic Aries mini as streamer and dac.

I have mainly been using it with Focal Elear, Beyerdynamic T1. 
What a surprising and wonderful match with Elear, very engaging sound.

Last week i found a pair of HEX priced fair, and took the chance to sell Elear to finance em'.

Did own the HEX before, and did really miss em'. Didn't really know what to expect from Elise and HEX. Could only find one member mention them together. But what a pleasantly surprise, when i plugged them in today 

What a magical vocal that pair can reproduce! was afraid the high output impedance from Elise would screw it up with the sensitive HEX.

Have only been using stock tubes, but got a pair psvane uk-6sn7 arriving tomorrow!


----------



## pctazhp

Hi @Gjoel . A big and hearty welcome to you))) The way you are talking about headphones and already experimenting with a pair of tubes tells me you are definitely one of us))))

There's very little activity on this thread any more. You might want to check out this thread which remains pretty active: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...rt-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/


----------



## i luvmusic 2

hypnos1 said:


> A HEARTY WELCOME BACK to friends old and new.
> 
> Let us continue the wonderful work and camaraderie of so many on the old Feliks thread...
> 
> ...



  Finally i found the useful links for the tubes.I don't have the amp for this thread i hope i don't get kicked out....
I'am on a DIY AMPS side of this hobby.

THANKS!
Jack


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Hi P,
> 
> If you already have 3 pairs of EL3N and 2 pairs of 6BL7, it is a worthwhile investment on the 2 set of adapters for $120. What you need are 4 additional 6SN7. You don't have to buy the expensive ones to start with. Suggestion would be to try some sweet sounding and reasonably price Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome top. Well since you already have 2 stock Tung Sol 6SN7GTB reissue, you only need to buy 2 more other brands. You don't need all 4 6SN7 of the same brand and variety. Mix and match gives very pleasant tones.
> 
> ...



LOL


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 19, 2017)

attmci said:


> LOL



Times have changed. I am Bill Gates now. The puppy is still around despite me going home tonight to see the brand spanking new GEC 6as7g pair.

I am quite amazed at my style of writing. Even Shakespeare would be envious.


----------



## pctazhp

One can only hope that Shakespeare won't unleash Hamlet's ghost on all of us !!!! If he is reading this, just know I don't have a clue as to who this UT (aka Bill Gates) crazy person is.


----------



## Lord Raven

Ground your Elise. If you have a common ground in your house, run a wire and connect it to the power extension board's ground. This is what I did and now mine is silent, no hum.

Also, let it burn in for a while. This will also take away the occasional buzzing.



blackrain139 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I'm a new Elise owner and I'm loving this wonderful amp.
> 
> ...


----------



## Trancedoc

This was probably asked before, but has anyone used these C3G to 6sn7 adapters  in their Elise?  Do they work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...0e9a9c4d4fcc8048419e93bcafd0&pid=100675&rk=2%


----------



## UntilThen

Of course. Every man and his dog uses the c3g to 6sn7 adapters here.

C3g sounds great on Elise but I am back to strictly 6sn7.


----------



## vl4dimir

Hi everybody, I know it's not really the place to put such "advertisement" but who knows.. I'm selling all my headphone related gear & my Elise+ tubes is up for sale if anyone is interested or know somebody who might be interested  [EU exclusive]. Thanks 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/sale-elise-by-feliks-audio.854727/


----------



## sotto123

How does the Elise compare to the Figaro 339?


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 22, 2017)

both amps have been compared a few times on the newer Elise thread, though there's still another newer thread (NEWEST *HERE*), making this the 3rd oldest thread. Here's a link to a comparison of the Elises' succesor Euforia and LF 339, although there are also comparisons on this thread also between the two you asked for
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-608#post-13576515

Unfortunately it does seem the "search this thread" function is missing on the new Head-Fi


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

For those seeing themselves outpriced by the recent price shift, I'm selling my Elise. Feel free to make a reasonable offer!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-feliks-audio-elise.869646/


----------



## connieflyer

Posting this here as well as the Euforia thread as the amps are similar.  Looking to acquire another headphone to add to others.  I have been reading up on the Audioquest Night Owl's.  Impedance is stated to be 25 ohms and Euforia and Elise are stated at 32 ohm.  Was wondering if anyone has tried these with Elise?  Thanks.


----------



## connieflyer

It is with great sadness that I let you know that good and gentle man passed today.  Our friend Phil Tower, PCT here, left this world and is no longer in pain.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> It is with great sadness that I let you know that good and gentle man passed today.  Our friend Phil Tower, PCT here, left this world and is no longer in pain.


Sad news indeed, RIP


----------



## MIKELAP

connieflyer said:


> It is with great sadness that I let you know that good and gentle man passed today.  Our friend Phil Tower, PCT here, left this world and is no longer in pain.


Been following


connieflyer said:


> It is with great sadness that I let you know that good and gentle man passed today.  Our friend Phil Tower, PCT here, left this world and is no longer in pain.


Sorry to hear that i think you guys were like a team  and funny . Sympaties go out to you and the family .


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you,  we were a team, to be sure.  He will be missed.


----------



## Oskari

DavidA said:


> Sad news indeed, RIP





connieflyer said:


> He will be missed.


It is and he will.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> It is with great sadness that I let you know that good and gentle man passed today.  Our friend Phil Tower, PCT here, left this world and is no longer in pain.



The only comfort here is that his suffering is at an end...but coming to terms with this sad news will not be easy for many of us.

You too take care, my good friend.

RIP Phil
CJ


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> It is with great sadness that I let you know that good and gentle man passed today.  Our friend Phil Tower, PCT here, left this world and is no longer in pain.



Sad news indeed.  Rest in gentle peace, Phil.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Sad news indeed.  Rest in gentle peace, Phil.



Very sad news - may you rest in peace, Phil.


----------



## connieflyer

This came on very sudden for him, and he fought hard, but against odds that were too heavy.  If he would have known of a problem earlier, he would probably beat this.  He will be sorely missed. I really enjoyed the banter and his humor, very refreshing. Not your typical lawyer, not that I have known that many.  Rest in Peace gentle Phil.


----------



## ostewart

Espressivo MKII review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/feliks-audio-espressivo-mkii.22896/reviews#review-19780


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 31, 2018)

Still enjoying C3g drivers and EL3N powers...in Elise.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Thank you, Bill, for:


----------



## JazzVinyl

This album....whoa!   I have the CD, and it's good, but I also have the original issue LP and it is soooooooo much better sounding than the CD....you are transported to a rich world of sonic goodness, via Miss Elise:


----------



## JazzVinyl

C3g drivers and El3N as powers...
Changed to the older Muse 4x TDA1543 chips DAC...

Deeper, louder bass and clarified top end, especially cymbals...moved forward in the hall...maybe to some narrowing of the sound stage...

Still loving the cool cool, 'does not run hot' performance of this tube combo, too...if you dig this sound, your Elise will last forever


----------



## JazzVinyl

Listening to:


----------



## JazzVinyl

Vangelis' soundtrack for the movie "Blade Runner" sounding might fine via an old set of 60's Raytheon 6SN7 and Chatham 6AS7G's.

Keeping a computer fan trained on her to keep her cool...that is what this amp should have had, from the start.


----------



## JazzVinyl

@OctavianH - this thread probably has the best Elise tube rolling information....


----------



## davveswe

How well does it drive 600 ohm phones? 
It has only 200mA power output.


----------



## JazzVinyl

JazzVinyl said:


> Thought it would be fun to try this between the DAC and Elise to get close to "H1 land"...and his tube DAC:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1set-ECC88-...-MUSICAL-FIDELITY-X10d-PCB-kits-/191627380550
> 
> ...



A  year and a half later - I did buy Mrs Xu's ECC88 tube buffer.  

Using it currently between an iPod (in line out mode) and an SS amp.

Tubes and 12v AC (not DC) transformer are extra, and that ups the price to just above $100.00 USD. 

Impressed at its sonic lushness. I had a "Grant Fidelity" tube buffer years ago, this one is scads better.  I like it.


----------



## Eylrik

Is there any recommended mod for the Elise ie capacitor, resistance or fuse upgrade?
I'm thinking mods like we find on the Darkvoice or the Bottlehead Crack amps...


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 13, 2018)

@Eylrik, looks like you've already found the Euforia thread, which is like an upgraded Elise. Here someone knows about fuses but not sure if it's the same for Elise.
I just came back from a hi-fi Earphone shop in Seoul and for me the Sennheiser HD-579 blew everything away barely short of the Utopia and HD-800. It's authoritative, seductive, vivid, clear and some of the best bass Senny's ever made IMO! It creamed the 660S and the whole Beyer lineup no comparison to me.


----------



## hypnos1

davveswe said:


> How well does it drive 600 ohm phones?
> It has only 200mA power output.



Hi davveswe.

OTL amps like ours are in fact best at driving high-impedance cans...my 600 ohm T1s really do sing - first in Elise, now in Euforia. So the answer is a definite _extremely_ well lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Eylrik said:


> Is there any recommended mod for the Elise ie capacitor, resistance or fuse upgrade?
> I'm thinking mods like we find on the Darkvoice or the Bottlehead Crack amps...



Hi again E....any such _internal_ mod would, of course, negate any warranty lol! And I don't think we've heard of anyone tinkering with caps or resistors...as yet! .

F-A used upgraded Mundorf and Nichicon caps in the Euforia, plus a totally new resistor circuit, with Dale and Caddocks. So if anyone was inclined, perhaps such caps might well bring an improvement...but could be risky...so am not advising it!!

As for fuses, I personally have found a slight improvement using an upgraded one in the mains cable feeding my mains conditioning units, but this does seem to be hit and miss for folks. I will soon be trying one in my Euforia (slow-blow 1.6T, as in Elise) and will post my impressions on both threads when I've given it a thorough testing...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> As for fuses, I personally have found a slight improvement using an upgraded one in the mains cable feeding my mains conditioning units, but this does seem to be hit and miss for folks.


Most people don't have fuses in their cables; you UK people are weird.


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 13, 2018)

Oskari said:


> Most people don't have fuses in their cables; *you UK people are weir*d.



Well, O, given we're an unfathomable mix of races since good ol' King Harold, is it any wonder lol?!! 

But I must admit I myself find comfort in knowing there's good protection from our 240V mains, via our 13A mains plug fuse! _However_, having said that - as with my pathological hatred of connectors! - I have removed them from all my mains cables (power cords) to separates equipment, relying (hopefully!) on the surge protection within my mains regenerator and Balanced Mains + Advanced Filter System unit. I don't have the courage to bypass Euforia's internal fuse however...much to my dismay lol, given the (expensive) care taken on the electricity supply up to this tiny piece of 'rubbish' fuse wire!!!  And hence my attempt at 'damage limitation' by upgrading said internal fuse as well as that in the main, mains cable lol! ...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> But I must admit I myself find comfort in knowing there's good protection from our 240V mains, via our 13A mains plug fuse!


I know you do things differently. I'm just being a pain in the you-know-what. Sorry. 

You can see my "mains cable fuses" (10A & 16A) and RCDs (GFCIs) in this photo:


----------



## mordy

I believe that every house has a fuse box with circuit breakers


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I believe that every house has a fuse box with circuit breakers


I hope they do...


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> I know you do things differently. I'm just being a pain in the you-know-what. Sorry.
> 
> You can see my "mains cable fuses" (10A & 16A) and RCDs (GFCIs) in this photo:



Hey O, no-one could ever call you 'a pain in the proverbial' lol! ....always the gentleman - even if, unlike me, of few words!! 

Aah, so all your protection (apart from equipment internal fuses) is at the main circuit breaker box...like our 'fuse box' over here, or with the more modern switchable circuit breakers (that I've installed and much prefer!). We then also have a slightly lower fuse rating in demanding equipments' plugs, and lower still for lamps etc. With so much ancillary electrical equipment in the same line as what supplies our highly resolving (and sensitive) hi-fi gear, no wonder _good_ mains conditioning is pretty well vital....and that's not including goodness-knows-what cr** is inherited from everyone else before us in the power queue lol! ...plus what's increasingly filling the airwaves around us......(call me paranoid, cynical...I don't mind, O!...)....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## zakazak (Dec 25, 2018)

Would the Elise be a good fit for the HD800S?
Can the Elise be used in countries with hot weather?
I dont eant to invest a shitload into tubes, so I wonder if stock/cheap tubes work well with the Elise and how long they last?
Would I miss a balanced output on the Elise?


----------



## inthere

zakazak said:


> Would the Elise be a good fit for the HD800S?
> Can the Elise be used in countries with hot weather?
> I dont eant to invest a ****load into tubes, so I wonder if stock/cheap tubes work well with the Elise and how long they last?
> Would I miss a balanced output on the Elise?



The best sounding tubes that I’ve used so far are the stock tubes. Tube amps always work well with Sennheiser headphones, personally I haven’t heard any headphones that work better with tube amps than the Sennheisers, the HD 800s should sound awesome with the Elise


----------



## zakazak

Thanks and:

Can the Elise be used in countries with hot weather?
I dont eant to invest a ****load into tubes, so I wonder if stock/cheap tubes work well with the Elise and how long they last?
Would I miss a balanced output on the Elise?
Generally I prefer fast and clear bass, would the Elise be a good choice for that or should I rather get a SS amp?


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 27, 2018)

@zakazak , Going through the notes on my former Elise, I recommend hands-down either RCA 12AV7 (or 12AU7, 12AX7) or Tungsram E80CC as drivers, if you're looking for great bass definition with standard class power tubes. Both came on top of my list with many powers are hard to beat for what you're looking for, and come fairly cheap. They need adapters (12AV7 to 6SN7) but they both use the same one for only about $9 each and it opens up many tube rolling options with similar tubes. *Here* was my review and a link for the adapter.

However you may need slightly darker driver tubes to make up for the inherent bass-lean signature of the HD-800's and to a lesser degree with the HD-600's, such as Ken-Rad 6N7 metal tubes - these also need adapters but are cheap and require long burn-in.

Regardless of your external climate, the most important thing that causes the amp to heat up is the current draw of the tubes you're using. Stock tubes take close to the upper aH threshold causing the transfo. to heat up quickly, whereas many of the 'aftermarket' tubes we found such as above mentioned miniature or 6FQ7 and EL32 driver tubes, and power tubes such as EL11 / EL12 take a small faction of the max current allowing it to run much cooler in which case even a hot tropical climate shouldn't faze the amp. Tube life is generally 1,000's of hours even for tubes that haven't been used in 70 years so as long as the internal construction is good you should be set.

RE balanced - over the years I've learned first had the performance has all to do with the specs / implementation of the amp rather than the connection type. A top-tier SE (unbalanced) amp can sound way better than a modest balanced amp, and a well implemented balanced amp can sound better than a low tier SE amp, so no you're really not missing out on anything that way.

Awesome past reads can be had covering all your mentioned concerns on previous pages.


----------



## tjw321

Bit of a sad day for me. I'm going to be working abroad for a while and the Elise is too heavy to take with me. Still, I bet it'll sound even better on my trips back home.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 6, 2019)

tjw321 said:


> Bit of a sad day for me. I'm going to be working abroad for a while and the Elise is too heavy to take with me. Still, I bet it'll sound even better on my trips back home.



I feel for you tjw. But you bet she'll greet you back with a glorious sound lol! ...especially if you manage to bag a quartet of Mullard EL38s!!! 

And by the way, folks...*IMPORTANT NOTICE*... I've discovered that Billington Export here in the UK seem to have some NOS and used EL38s at very good prices...more info and link over at the Euforia thread...

Hope you still enjoy your time abroad though, tjw....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## lentoviolento

Is elise a pure otl? One of my friends says it is not....


----------



## hypnos1

lentoviolento said:


> Is elise a pure otl? One of my friends says it is not....


 
Hi lv. It's a good while since this particular Elise thread saw any action lol...late-lamented Phil's 'Impressions' thread became the 'go-to' one most of the time. So, well-found!! 

Not a 'pure' OTL?...please let us know _precisely _why your friend thinks this is so. Will be very interesting! 

ps. Shall pose this conundrum on said other thread..._and_ the Euforia thread, that's often visited by Elise owners (although Euforia has various upgrades, the basic topology should be the same)...hope you don't mind.


----------



## bokononista

Hi guys,
can somebody please compare Feliks Elise with Shiit Valhala 2? I have Beyerdynamic T1.1.


----------



## filip sebastian

Hello,i'am a T1.1 owner and HD800.The amplifiers they own are Burson Conductor V2+ and Woo Audio Wa6.The v2+ Conductor is very good and along whith the HD800 it is excelent for jazz and classics.the problem is that i want to listen to the T1 vocal and acoustic guitar and at the same time to "sweeten" them with lamps,but Wa6 does not have enought power for T1.
So,Felix Elise is a good pair for T1?
And what are the tube that Elise comes in (1 matched pair of driver tubes PsVane 6SN7 Hi-Fi  and  1 matched pair of power tubes 6N13S -NOS) ,match T1 or do i have to invest in other tubes?
 My setup:

https://i.imgur.com/aYI49PN.jpg


----------



## Acapella11

Hi Filip, T1 and Elise are a good match! I suggest to private mail Hypnos1, the thread starter. He has got experience with Elise and  Euphoria and the T1. The Euphoria is just an upgraded version of the Elise. Good luck on your journey!


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 28, 2019)

filip sebastian said:


> Hello,i'am a T1.1 owner and HD800.The amplifiers they own are Burson Conductor V2+ and Woo Audio Wa6.The v2+ Conductor is very good and along whith the HD800 it is excelent for jazz and classics.the problem is that i want to listen to the T1 vocal and acoustic guitar and at the same time to "sweeten" them with lamps,but Wa6 does not have enought power for T1.
> So,Felix Elise is a good pair for T1?
> And what are the tube that Elise comes in (1 matched pair of driver tubes PsVane 6SN7 Hi-Fi  and  1 matched pair of power tubes 6N13S -NOS) ,match T1 or do i have to invest in other tubes?
> My setup:
> ...



Hi filip s.

As @Acapella11 said, Elise and T1 perform together extremely well. I personally always even preferred the T1's (v1) presentation over the wonderful HD800 in F-A's amps...but helped no doubt by the pure silver replacement hp cable I made!

The stock tubes are good, but other (older) tubes will indeed give improved performance. I now have the Euforia, with its own thread, but there's a good bunch of guys on the now more active Elise thread who will probably give you their own input : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-742#post-15077524

Plus, if you can spare the time to scan some of the (many!) pages, you should be able to get a better idea about different tubes used...CJ

ps. Nice setup!


----------



## filip sebastian

Ok,thank you  for the answers.
 I'm not yetdetermined. T1 + Elise=love,but HD800 ? I'm thinking of giving up T1 and keeping HD800.


----------



## hypnos1

filip sebastian said:


> Ok,thank you  for the answers.
> I'm not yetdetermined. T1 + Elise=love,but HD800 ? I'm thinking of giving up T1 and keeping HD800.



Yo filip...different flavours indeed. But I - and others - have found the HD800 (and S version) to also pair extremely well with both Elise and Euforia.
Of course, the only real way to be sure is try out the combo first...if at all possible lol!! ...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## chimney189

I was interested in purchasing one of these, especially after reading that they were $699. Then I found out that they increased their price by nearly double. What?!


----------



## DecentLevi

Initially the Elise was basically 'given away' at 'steal' prices, then company started finally charging what it's worth so they can recoup some of their profits. It punches above its price point, but especially their  Euforia which is its' successor. And now there is a v2 of both Feliks audio Elise and Euforia, with a v3 of Euforia on the way called "anniversary edition". There's also another tube amp better value for even lower cost if you want to send me a PM for details.


----------



## filip sebastian

Hello, I will be getting a Felix Audio Elise soon and I would like to know something.  Is the device turned on and left to be heated with headphones connected or without headphones connected?


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 21, 2019)

filip sebastian said:


> Hello, I will be getting a Felix Audio Elise soon and I would like to know something.  Is the device turned on and left to be heated with headphones connected or without headphones connected?



Hi fs...and welcome to the F-A community (well, communit_ies_ actually lol!). Most Elise action is now on the 'Impressions' thread : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-752#post-15254266

But in answer to your question, there are in fact _two_ answers!
First, whenever switching on a tube amp especially, the usual advice is to have the headphones disconnected, then reconnect once the amp has fired up. This is just in case a tube is - or is becoming - bad, which can sometimes have it 'arcing' and blow. The amp's internal protection circuitry should be able to cope (in most instances), but such a surge can easily damage sensitive headphone drivers!

Second is to do with 'burning in'...the need for both the amp and tubes to be running quite a long time so as to 'burn in' all the components, including wires, before they perform at their best. In fact, the early days for some tubes can have them not sounding very good at all lol!...and the gradual improvement over time can sometimes be quite spectacular/unbelievable, hence the definite need for _patience_ in this hobby of ours!  And I personally recommend about 5hr play sessions, followed by about an hour cooling down periods for such burning in...at normal volume levels _with_ headphones connected. And on average, many tubes will continue to improve over 50 to 100 hrs...some needing even longer than that before at their best!

I hope you receive your own Elise soon, and wish you many happy hours' enjoyment from her. The helpful guys over at the thread I linked will surely assist with any queries you might have...

Best, CJ


----------



## filip sebastian

Thanks for the answer, it seems that the recommended method is to turn on / off the amplifier with the headphones connected.


----------



## hypnos1

filip sebastian said:


> Thanks for the answer, it seems that the recommended method is to turn on / off the amplifier with the headphones connected.



Hi again fs. Sorry to contradict LW, but in all the years I've been scouring info from many different sources, the _safest_ option has always ended up being to have the hps *dis*connected when turning the amp on especially, as the surge at startup can be the most likely time for a bad tube to blow...if one is _extremely_ unlucky!  Having said that, I myself had my headphones connected permanently (internally!) to the amp for a very long time, and count myself lucky I didn't have such a catastrophic tube failure lol! 

And so I suppose at the end of the day, "you pays your money and takes your choice" lol!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again fs. Sorry to contradict LW, but in all the years I've been scouring info from many different sources, the _safest_ option has always ended up being to have the hps *dis*connected when turning the amp on especially, as the surge at startup can be the most likely time for a bad tube to blow...if one is _extremely_ unlucky!  Having said that, I myself had my headphones connected permanently (internally!) to the amp for a very long time, and count myself lucky I didn't have such a catastrophic tube failure lol!
> 
> And so I suppose at the end of the day, "you pays your money and takes your choice" lol!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ



I think there are pro's and con's depending upon your prioritiees. If primary concern is protecting the headphones, I agree fully with @hypnos1 (it's usually good policy to agree, I'd have to live a long time to be as knowledgeable as him). However, from the perspective of the amp., turning it on without headphones connected results in an open circuit, which some feel is deleterious to a tube amp (perhaps less so with OTL like Elise than those with output transformers). There is more discussion *here* and it acknowledges both points of view.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> I think there are pro's and con's depending upon your prioritiees. If primary concern is protecting the headphones, I agree fully with @hypnos1 (it's usually good policy to agree, I'd have to live a long time to be as knowledgeable as him). However, from the perspective of the amp., turning it on without headphones connected results in an open circuit, which some feel is deleterious to a tube amp (perhaps less so with OTL like Elise than those with output transformers). There is more discussion *here* and it acknowledges both points of view.



Hi LW...consider myself still very much at the learning stage in this hobby of ours...as I suspect anyone is truth be told, even after _many_ years lol! 

Thanks for your own input on this...interesting comment from WA re. keeping the headphones attached at switch on. I know it's not a good idea to keep the amp running for a _long_ time without cans attached, but he does agree a very _short_ period won't cause any damage...in our OTLs especially. However, even though the likelihood of a catastrophic tube blow at startup is _rare_, it can and does still happen lol!! So on balance therefore, having them attached is the greater risk for the  headphones, given _nil_ otherwise......especially if one has super expensive ones!! 

But then, another consideration is the constant wear on the internal headphone socket with all the plugging/unplugging...so, not a straightforward decision, unless one is really paranoid about tube shorting/arcing (which is actually rather scary when it does happen lol ).


----------



## filip sebastian

Finally i got Elise,the headphones are T1 first gen.(serial no.1512) and HD800.


----------



## LoryWiv

Congrats!


----------



## filip sebastian

Thank you LoryWiv.  Elise is a pleasant surprise, the amplifier sounds great.  As a former owner of WooAudio Wa6 I can say that Elise is superior from all points of view.  With T1 it's amazing, for the first time I listen to these headphones to their true potential.  On the other hand, I do not think it is a good amplifier for the HD800, although many see that it praises this combination.  The problem is that Elise creates an unrealistic scene with the HD800, for example listening to vocal jazz, Diana Krall, the piano is in front and the voice is somewhere far behind.  The same is true of the tools in the background.  I do not recommend HD800 / S for Elise, except with a dac / cd-player with a '' everything in front '' presentation mode.  But as I said before, with T1 it is incredible, scene is 3D, every instrument easy to follow.


----------



## Acapella11

filip sebastian said:


> Thank you LoryWiv.  Elise is a pleasant surprise, the amplifier sounds great.  As a former owner of WooAudio Wa6 I can say that Elise is superior from all points of view.  With T1 it's amazing, for the first time I listen to these headphones to their true potential.  On the other hand, I do not think it is a good amplifier for the HD800, although many see that it praises this combination.  The problem is that Elise creates an unrealistic scene with the HD800, for example listening to vocal jazz, Diana Krall, the piano is in front and the voice is somewhere far behind.  The same is true of the tools in the background.  I do not recommend HD800 / S for Elise, except with a dac / cd-player with a '' everything in front '' presentation mode.  But as I said before, with T1 it is incredible, scene is 3D, every instrument easy to follow.



Hi Filip,

Glad you are enjoying the Elise. To add to this topic: I don’t own the Elise but an HD800 and I listened to the Elise at Hypnos1 a couple of times and compared T1 and HD800. I can’t recollect a stage placing issue with the Elise/HD800 pairing but I remember preferring the T1/Elise combo over the HD800/Elise pairing, too. I think my impression was that the stage generated by the T1 was very large, greater than for the HD800 and the Elise rendered not a huge stage. The T1 just expanded the stage nicely and the tubes also conditioned the T1 treble well, which could be hot at times. The HD800 treble felt smoother and there the Elise “over-mellowed” just a little bit, for my taste. 

Overall, I agree with your point of view Filip, even though it is all a matter of taste and for some the combination with HD800 may just highlight features they appreciate.


----------



## filip sebastian

It's not a bad HD 800 sound, but the scene is not natural.  The voices are diffused, difficult to identify exactly where they come from, and everything in the background is too far.  On the other hand T1 seems completely different headphones, I can not believe what scene they have and how accurate each instrument is heard separately.  I repeat, the HD800 does not sound tonal, but the scene, the voices seem artificial.  In general, HD800s are demanding for lamp amplifiers, it is easier to get good results with solid state amplifiers.  In my case, the Burson Conductor V2 + is excellent.  T1 on the other hand are demanding for solid state amplifiers, but they are very well matched with those on lamps, even with the budget ones.  Personally, on any solid state amplifier I tried the T1 I was disappointed with the result, on WA6 they sounded good, but unfortunately the amplifier did not have enough power.  Elise finally T1 sounds to their true value and I can say that they are headphones with nothing more than HD800.


----------



## filip sebastian (Dec 16, 2019)

The first pair of tubes for me,Tung Sol NOS 7236 (USA).
One question,are the Psvane CV181T2's   https://www.amazon.com/Matched-Psvane-CV181-T-Premium-Treasure/dp/B00N4L28HK   a substantial upgrade over the standart Psvane 6SN7 Hi-Fi tubes?

https://i.imgur.com/0gvxIf9.jpg

*Edit 
Wowwww....Tung Sol NOS 7236 is superb !


----------



## Eylrik

This is exactly my setup : tung-sol 7236 + psvane cv181t2...gorgeous match !
And yes the cv181t2 are definitely an upgrade from the 6sn7 psvane you're showing !


----------



## filip sebastian

Eylrik said:


> This is exactly my setup : tung-sol 7236 + psvane cv181t2...gorgeous match !
> And yes the cv181t2 are definitely an upgrade from the 6sn7 psvane you're showing !


Ok ,tanks.


----------



## SHIMACM

Hello guys! I'm seriously thinking about buying Elise. I will be traveling to Europe in June and I intend to return there with her. . However, I've been researching a lot and I still have doubts between Elise and Woo WA2. Elise had a considerable increase in the price, costing today 1300 Euros. The Woo WA2 will stay for a long time at the same price of $ 1,190. So what improvements has Elise undergone over previous models that justify the current price? And, has anyone had the opportunity to compare Elise (model 2019) with current Woo WA2? I will appreciate any two cents received.


----------



## Eylrik

Hi,

Key upgrades are :
- an updated audio transformer
- PsVane 6SN7 driver tubes
- safety features in pre-amp circuit as well as “soft cut-off”on power on/off


----------



## SHIMACM

So, Elise, at the current price, is still a better bet than Woo Wa2?


----------



## billyleungkt

I'm in a cross road of WA6, WA2, Elise for my 1st tube amp. my only 1 cans is HD800s. Any recommendations (can be something else)?


----------



## musickid (May 12, 2020)

i'm using oppo pm1 into chord mscaler/TT2 with great results. i have a soft spot for the beyer dt880 600 ohm. it was my first real headphone and the most comfortable i've ever owned. my idea is to use the oppo pm1 strictly solid state with the chord gear. as a second listening option i'm considering using the chord combo with TT2 as dac into the elise. i would use the dt880 beyer with the elise as the dt880 is 600 ohms and the elise is an OTL amp. perfect match. so that's a very expensive source being fed into the elise playing a £150 headphone. i'm not interested in any of the other beyers or any other headphones for this. the dt880 600 ohm is cheap but highly revered and respected still. what does everyone think?


----------



## StarlightDawn (Jun 18, 2020)

Hey music lovers 

I've heard that the Elise is warmer than the Euforia. Does this mean it is less detailed compared to the Euforia? I'm undecided whether to go for the Elise or the Euforia that will be paired with ZMF headphones.


----------



## canfabulous

StarlightDawn said:


> Hey music lovers
> 
> I've heard that the Elise is warmer than the Euforia. Does this mean it is less detailed compared to the Euforia? I'm undecided whether to go for the Elise or the Euforia that will be paired with ZMF headphones.



Interested in the answer to this too!


----------



## vulup (Sep 10, 2020)

I just received my Elise (it is my first tube amp) and was wondering whether a hollow ringing when the headphone jack is plugged in or the headphone cable is lightly tapped is normal? With the volume knob turned all the way down, of course. The annotations to the user manual also mentions that it should not be on for more than 8 hours at once- true or, rather, Feliks Audio being overly cautious?


----------



## canfabulous

I don't know on the first point, but I do recall another member emailing Lukasz about the 8 hour limit and he advised to follow it to ensure the lifespan of the electronics.  It's probably fine to go longer, but depending upon your listening level, you might want to limit your exposure via headphones to under 8 hours anyhow.  I don't find it a limitation on a day to day basis and I definitely would not leave the amp permanently on!


----------



## vulup (Sep 10, 2020)

canfabulous said:


> I don't know on the first point, but I do recall another member emailing Lukasz about the 8 hour limit and he advised to follow it to ensure the lifespan of the electronics.  It's probably fine to go longer, but depending upon your listening level, you might want to limit your exposure via headphones to under 8 hours anyhow.  I don't find it a limitation on a day to day basis and I definitely would not leave the amp permanently on!



Thank you-- I was wondering about the 8-hour limit as time just flew the other day while I was listening to music with the Elise.



StarlightDawn said:


> Hey music lovers
> 
> I've heard that the Elise is warmer than the Euforia. Does this mean it is less detailed compared to the Euforia? I'm undecided whether to go for the Elise or the Euforia that will be paired with ZMF headphones.



Heard that as well. I haven't let it run in the recommended 40-50 hours yet and have never heard the Euforia, maybe someone else can draw a comparision. Also got the Elise with the upgraded PSVANE tubes, which Lukasz described as "adding a bit of the edge to trebles and improving the dynamics". As for the Elise on its own with those tubes, I don't find it to lack detail.

I am currently running it with the Soekris dac1421 and am using ZMF Verite C Monkeypod headphones.


----------



## LoryWiv

vulup said:


> I just received my Elise (it is my first tube amp) and was wondering whether a hollow ringing when the *headphone jack is plugged in or the headphone cable is lightly tapped* is normal? With the volume knob turned all the way down, of course. The annotations to the user manual also mentions that it should not be on for more than 8 hours at once- true or, rather, Feliks Audio being overly cautious?


This sounds like microphonics and is fairly typical, more prominent with some tubes than others. Some users apply tube dampers to mitigate but I rarely find it bothersome when playing music. BTW, congrats on the Feliks Elise... I love mine more pushing a year and a half of ownership than when I got it. Great, versatile OTL amp.


----------



## vulup

LoryWiv said:


> This sounds like microphonics and is fairly typical, more prominent with some tubes than others. Some users apply tube dampers to mitigate but I rarely find it bothersome when playing music. BTW, congrats on the Feliks Elise... I love mine more pushing a year and a half of ownership than when I got it. Great, versatile OTL amp.



That is a relief, thank you. I will swap tubes. It is a great amp, I am enjoying mine as well.


----------



## Bob Ley

Hi everyone, I'm a new owner of the Elise (about 1+month), and use it with a RME-ADI-2 DAC, ZMF Verite, Auteur, HD800s and Sony MDR-Z1R.

No complaints about the sound with stock tubes but since I can't upgrade anymore equipment wise, wondering anyone's suggestions on different tubes that are available in the U.S.
Thanks!


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 20, 2020)

Elise is a fine Sunday companion....and the wife, of course. At my age, that's the only kind of three-way that interests me. Or a four-way if you count the keyboard performer.


----------



## Bob Ley

LoryWiv said:


> Elise is a fine Sunday companion....and the wife, of course. At my age, that's the only kind of three-way that interests me. Or a four-way if you count the keyboard performer.


How do those tubes sound you're using compared to stock?


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 21, 2020)

I definitely feel they are a step forward in detail retrieval, clarity, both bass and treble extension whilst still preserving liquid mids and balance across frequencies. And of course they do provide that OTL magic. The 6L6, 6V6 and KT family powers run cooler than stock as well, as another plus. The only downside is they can sound a bit anemic with certain music, perhaps reflecting that they are triode strapped pentodes thus not running at their full capability, so YMMV.


----------



## Bob Ley

LoryWiv said:


> I definitely feel they are a step forward in detail retrieval, clarity, both bass and treble extension whilst still preserving liquid mids and balance across frequencies. And of course providing that OTL magic. The V6L6, 6V6 and KT family powers run cooler than stock as well, as another plus. The only downside is they can sound a bit anemic with certain music, perhaps reflecting that they are triode strapped pentodes thus not running at their full capability, so YMMV.


Where did you get them?


----------



## LoryWiv

Both from ebay, various sellers.


----------



## Colozeus

Folks, can someone please point me to the correct tube adapter needed to run Goldlion kt88's on the elise? Is this the correct adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-6...155772?hash=item2cf82b69fc:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl

And if so, is there anyone in the US that sells these, i would rather not have to wait so long for adapters. Thanks!


----------



## LoryWiv

Colozeus said:


> Folks, can someone please point me to the correct tube adapter needed to run Goldlion kt88's on the elise? Is this the correct adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-6...155772?hash=item2cf82b69fc:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl
> 
> And if so, is there anyone in the US that sells these, i would rather not have to wait so long for adapters. Thanks!


Sent you a PM before I saw this post, but yes this adapter should work. Alternative is @Deyan, also not in US but a fellow head-fier.


----------



## Karlsushi

Hi all.

New Head-fi-er here and thoroughly enjoying the website and thoroughly helpful people on here.

Having spent the majority of my hifi life investing in full stereo/speaker set-ups, I am now getting into headphones in a more serious way.  I am also very new to tubes (i.e. valves - yes, i'm from the UK ).

In my search for a new headphone amp (with preamp functionality) I have come across the Feliks Elise and have just today ordered a home demo unit from the very helpful Audiobarn (Felik's only UK supplier).  I only have a week, so will need to do some serious listening.

I have two sets of cans, Focal Elegias and some Audeze LCD2s, the latter of which has caused me to doubt the Elise over, after reading about the power requirements for planars and potential incompatibility with OTL headamp designs.  But with so many conflicting views out there, I thought the only way to tell was just to have a listen myself.

I am also in discussions with the guy over at Eufonika about a custom-made OPT design, so hoping I don't fall in love with the Elise too much as I may end up with more amps than I can afford!

The Eufonika unit may be a better match for the planars, but that Elise ain't half prettier!

Very much looking forward to having a play over the coming days anyway...


----------



## Bob Ley

Thinking of selling my Elise if anyone interested. U.S. shipping only.


----------



## Karlsushi

Well that sounds like a thumbs down if ever I've heard it


----------



## mordy

With all due respect, there are many reasons for selling something. One common reason is if an item does not get much, if any, use - somebody may prefer speakers to headphones, or simply does not have much time to listen, or is concentrating on a different hobby,  needs cash, etc, etc.
And of course, the person may have upgraded to something else. It may not necessarily be a negative comment that somebody is selling an item.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> With all due respect, there are many reasons for selling something. One common reason is if an item does not get much, if any, use - somebody may prefer speakers to headphones, or simply does not have much time to listen, or is concentrating on a different hobby,  needs cash, etc, etc.
> And of course, the person may have upgraded to something else. It may not necessarily be a negative comment that somebody is selling an item.


Your right mordy i sold several amps doesnt mean i didnt like them , it just that my level of enthusiasm was starting to scare my wife lol. Just kidding she backs me 100% i think?


----------



## Karlsushi

Yes, aware of all that.

I have been buying and selling hifi for years myself. Many times starting my for sale description with 'reluctant sale of...' which is often the case.

It was the situation of just having posted about my excitement about getting hold of an Elise and the next post was someone getting rid of one.

The humour of the situation perhaps didn't come across well in writing. Noted.


----------



## mordy

Karlsushi said:


> Yes, aware of all that.
> 
> I have been buying and selling hifi for years myself. Many times starting my for sale description with 'reluctant sale of...' which is often the case.
> 
> ...


Maybe this is funny?
My wife asked me: Why do you have so many of those glass thingamajigs?
I told her that I am looking for sonic perfection. I think that I am up to around 500 tubes by now.....


----------



## Karlsushi

mordy said:


> Maybe this is funny?
> My wife asked me: Why do you have so many of those glass thingamajigs?
> I told her that I am looking for sonic perfection. I think that I am up to around 500 tubes by now.....


Well, it's certainly funny that you still have a wife


----------



## shafat777 (Oct 29, 2020)

Anyone using PSVane CV-181t MKII tubes with their elise? Would love to hear yall's impression.
 Its the stock Feliks Audio Euforia tube.


----------



## OctavianH

shafat777 said:


> Anyone using PSVane CV-181t MKII tubes with their elise? Would love to hear yall's impression.
> Its the stock Feliks Audio Euforia tube.



I am using them with Elise and Tung Sol 5998. I think it is a very good pairing. Tung Sol 5998 have good bass, are slightly warm and punchy while I find the PSVane CV-181T2 being quite balanced and linear. But be careful with these, they need a very long burn in period and they will sound strange from time to time during this process. I needed 200 hours to feel they settled to a stable good sound.


----------



## shafat777

While i dont/yet to get the tung sol 5998s, I do have a pair of RCA black plate 6as7g coming in today. My psvane 181s will be here next week. Hopefully the new RCA 6as7g with my stock psvane 6sn7 gives me an idea of how tube rolling works in this amp. As long as the rcas sound better than the stock 6n13s, i ll be  happy.


----------



## Karlsushi

I have an Elise on home demo currently.  A fabulous sounding unit, but with a couple of reservations which I would appreciate thoughts on before I pull the trigger.

Firstly, the amp seems to be quite prone to bluetooth/phone interference.  It is a demo unit which was built in 2018, so it is the MkII, which as I have read, should have resolved (improved) the situation here.

Anyone else have this problem with the Elise or is this just a general issue with OTL amps?

Secondly, when listening with my Audeze LCD2s there is a notable buzzing with the volume up at only around 50 to 60% and beyond.

Anyone else have this problem with high sensitivity planars or is this possibly an issue with the demo unit having been backwards and forwards a bit or the tubes getting on?

Any advice/reassurance greatly appreciated.

Cheers


----------



## Eylrik

Hi,

Well, as for the phone interference, the MKII behaves much better than the previous version. However, yes, it still happens but it is inherent to the tube technology. So no worries here.

As for the buzzing, that should not happen, whether it is with planars or any other type of headphone. This might be related to the tubes. Are they stock tubes or NOS tubes ? You might want to plug them out and plug them in again, making sure they are tightly connected.
Or it could be an electrical issue such as a ground loop. The Elise is sensitive to power and you should try and plug it to another power socket, also isolated from other devices.


----------



## LoryWiv

Karlsushi said:


> I have an Elise on home demo currently.  A fabulous sounding unit, but with a couple of reservations which I would appreciate thoughts on before I pull the trigger.
> 
> Firstly, the amp seems to be quite prone to *bluetooth/phone interference*.  It is a demo unit which was built in 2018, so it is the MkII, which as I have read, should have resolved (improved) the situation here.
> 
> ...


I had this issue and by trial and error culprit was my landline wireless phone / receiver unit. My cell and a Bluetooth transmitter nearby cause no hum. This recognition helped me ditch my landline, as those are soooo 1990 after all.


----------



## Karlsushi

Thanks for the responses. The unit has the stock tubes I believe and as it is from 2018 I am assuming the mark 2.

I will be having a play with a different DAC as a source later following a very sensible suggestion that it could possibly be the high voltage output of my Chord DAC not helping the situation.

Cheers


----------



## OctavianH

Karlsushi said:


> it could possibly be the high voltage output of my Chord DAC not helping the situation.



I used Elise MKII with 2Qute/Qutest set both to 3V (2Qute had fixed voltage, Qutest selectable but for me 3V sounded the best) and never had any problems.
Now I use TT2 with 2.5V and the same.


----------



## mordy

Karlsushi said:


> I have an Elise on home demo currently.  A fabulous sounding unit, but with a couple of reservations which I would appreciate thoughts on before I pull the trigger.
> 
> Firstly, the amp seems to be quite prone to bluetooth/phone interference.  It is a demo unit which was built in 2018, so it is the MkII, which as I have read, should have resolved (improved) the situation here.
> 
> ...


The most likely culprit could be an electronic device such as a portable phone. At times it may be difficult to trace the source of the interference, but patience and trial and error usually pays off.


----------



## LoryWiv

Rockin' all GEC: 6080 powers, 6V6 drivers. Very clean, coherent presentation.


----------



## mordy

The GEC 6080 are excellent tubes. What kind of adapters are you using for the 6V6 tubes?
What brand are the 6V6 tubes? There are tubes that say A M which means Air Force Ministry, but I haven't figured out what A n M means.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> The GEC 6080 are excellent tubes. What kind of adapters are you using for the 6V6 tubes?
> What brand are the 6V6 tubes? There are tubes that say A M which means Air Force Ministry, but I haven't figured out what A n M means.


Hi @mordy. The 6V6 are also GEC, adapters by @Deyan.


----------



## mordy

Thanks - GEC made top quality tubes. Enjoy!


----------



## shafat777

anyone using either sylvania / ken-rad  VT-231 driver tubes with their Elise? I m running stock Svetlana power tubes and was wondering if and which of those two vt-231 would be a good match.


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 14, 2020)

shafat777 said:


> anyone using either sylvania / ken-rad  VT-231 driver tubes with their Elise? I m running stock Svetlana power tubes and was wondering if and which of those two vt-231 would be a good match.


I have and enjoy the KR VT-231, bass quality is a standout but perform well across all frequencies. I have used Sylvania's 6SN7 of several varieties (not VT-231), also excellent and perhaps a bit more treble centric. So it comes down to preference in part. Enjoy.


----------



## shafat777

Thank you good sir. I ll order a pair of KR Vt 231 and see if they are a good match with my stock Svetlanas.


----------



## shafat777

Anyone use their Elise w/ Meze Empyrean? Thinking about ordering an Empyrean soon. Any insight would be helpful.


----------



## OctavianH

shafat777 said:


> Anyone use their Elise w/ Meze Empyrean? Thinking about ordering an Empyrean soon. Any insight would be helpful.



You can find some impressions about Empyrean on the Euforia thread. For example here. But you have to keep an eye on the differences between Elise and Euforia.


----------



## Louisiana

OctavianH said:


> But you have to keep an eye on the differences between Elise and Euforia.



That's exactly what I'm thinking about right now!
Is Elise good enough, or should I invest more money and buy Euforia?


----------



## shafat777

I cant honestly imagine the elise being so far off the Euforia that a headphone like the Empyrean doesnt sound good from it. Yes, the Elise is warmer, gooey sounding amp, but with the right set of tubes, i believe it cant be brought up to right below the Euforia, IMHO of course.


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 17, 2020)

shafat777 said:


> I cant honestly imagine the elise being so far off the Euforia that a headphone like the Empyrean doesnt sound good from it. Yes, the Elise is warmer, gooey sounding amp, but with the right set of tubes, i believe it cant be brought up to right below the Euforia, IMHO of course.



There is a very good comparison here. My problem with Euforia is the silver wiring, I never like the pure silver sound. It sounds dry to me, lifeless. Elise is wired with copper and this is the reason it is warmer. You can compare them as pure silver and copper interconnects. Now, besides that, Euforia has a better transformer and power filtering. So it is not so dependant on noise coming from the power cable. But everything depends on your rest of the chain and your preference. In my case I use 2 levels of power filtering, good power cables and these improved Elise. In the past I was using as a DAC Chord Qutest where I always preferred copper interconnects. After I sold Qutest and upgraded to TT2 which is a warmer DAC I started to enjoy silver interconnects on Elise. So everything is a matter of synergy. Now, I am fully convinced that Euforia has better things, it has to be better otherwise nobody will buy it at the price tag they sell it. The question is not if Euforia is a better amplifier but if it is a better amplifier for you and the rest of your gear. In my case I listen mostly to rock music, where copper and the warmer sound is better. I am convinced Euforia will not be better for me. An option for me would be the AE which I think it is closer to what I would like it to be, but it has not convinced me to buy it at that price. When you ask for 2700 EUR I would ask also for XLR input, stepped attenuator and so on. Of course, this is my personal view. Many would disagree, but this is the good thing on forums, we hear the opinion of everyone and form ours closer to reality.

Now, regarding Empyrean, everyone consider it a darker headphone, therefore I would not pair it with a warmer amplifier. Some of the people tame it with silver cables and many enjoy it on SS amps. It might be, that Empyrean on Elise will have too much bass. Another thing to consider is the impedance, at 36 Ohms Elise might have problems with it, or it will not match the Euforia. Even if it is rated at 32-600 Ohms, I am not sure about how it handles such headphones. Here others might know more.


----------



## Ultrainferno

We're giving away an Elise amp for Black Friday. Good luck!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ultrainferno said:


> We're giving away an Elise amp for Black Friday. Good luck!



Last day to sign up


----------



## Jjrg

Would people consider this the best amp in its price range?


----------



## Flisker

Hello, new Elise owner here,

Could anyone share some list of "best/favorite" tubes to roll ? I would be especially interested in the driver tubes, I have many power tubes from WA2 but no idea what is considered good for the drivers in Elise.

The PSVane stock look really nice and sound pretty ok I guess. 

I've also read that the better gold PSVanes got changed lately, and suck in terms of sound, is that true ?

Thanks a lot for any info.


----------



## Flisker

Come on, is this thread dead ?   The amp is incredible, it can't be so dead.


----------



## shafat777




----------



## incredulousity

shafat777 said:


>



Great tube porn!

Stock tubes or other (I have Euforia AE, so I honestly don’t know).


----------



## incredulousity

Flisker said:


> Hello, new Elise owner here,
> 
> Could anyone share some list of "best/favorite" tubes to roll ? I would be especially interested in the driver tubes, I have many power tubes from WA2 but no idea what is considered good for the drivers in Elise.
> 
> ...



There is a lot in this thread, the previous one, and the Euforia thread. Following these closely will teach you tube options, and more importantly, give you context, so you can make decisions about how deeply you wish to explore the rabbit hole.


----------



## shafat777

incredulousity said:


> Great tube porn!
> 
> Stock tubes or other (I have Euforia AE, so I honestly don’t know).


Those are Genalex Gold Lion KT88 Power tubes driving a pair of Sylvania VT-231 driver tubes


----------



## incredulousity

shafat777 said:


> Those are Genalex Gold Lion KT88 Power tubes driving a pair of Sylvania VT-231 driver tubes



Thanks. I have purchased some of those those (and other) tubes, and Deyan’s adapters should be here very soon.


----------



## Callius

Hey everyone! I'm about to aquire a pair of ZMF cans, either Aeolus or Auteur and im wondering if the Elise is still a worth purchase since they increased the price?


----------



## LoryWiv

Callius said:


> Hey everyone! I'm about to aquire a pair of ZMF cans, either Aeolus or Auteur and im wondering if the Elise is still a worth purchase since they increased the price?


Upscale Audio price is similar to what I bought it for > 1 year ago, except I got 2019 CanJam show discount for paying at the event. I am listening to Elise / Auteur now and have never felt I overpaid. This is a terrific combo. and with tube rolling is super versatile.

Caveat is I've read there may be a new Elise version in the works. if true, you may want to wait or use the opportunity to see if special pricing is available on current model if it is being phased out for a refreshed version. I think either way you will come out a winner. Elise is a great amp and pairs very well with Auteur.


----------



## Traiguen (Mar 10, 2021)

Hi everyone, I just pulled the trigger on an Elise. I had previously a bad experience with Ampsandsound Amps, I really hope I will be happy with the Elise.
I am not planning on doing lots of tube rolling, but I got the following set - would you kindly let me know if you think they are a good choices.
Power tubes: Shuguang Treasures CV181-Z, and the Driver: RCA VT-231.
I will be using it with a ZMF Verite Open and a Focal Elegia.


----------



## Deceneu808

Traiguen said:


> Hi everyone, I just pulled the trigger on an Elise. I had previously a bad experience with Ampsandsound Amps, I really hope I will be happy with the Elise.
> I am not planning on doing lots of tube rolling, but I got the following set - would you kindly let me know if you think they are a good choices.
> Power tubes: Shuguang Treasures CV181-Z, and the Driver: RCA VT-231.
> I will be using it with a ZMF Verite Open and a Focal Elegia.


Be careful about plugging in the Shuguang CV181s in the Power sockets. It is NOT a power tube. It's just a Chinese equivalent to the 6SN7 driver tubes. Keep the Svetlanas stock power tubes until you can grab a pair of either Mullard 6080, Chatham/Tung Sol 6080WA, Chatham/Tung Sol 6AS7G, Chatham/Tung-Sol 5998 & GEC 6080. These are the only ones worth spending money on imo


----------



## Traiguen

Deceneu808 said:


> Be careful about plugging in the Shuguang CV181s in the Power sockets. It is NOT a power tube. It's just a Chinese equivalent to the 6SN7 driver tubes. Keep the Svetlanas stock power tubes until you can grab a pair of either Mullard 6080, Chatham/Tung Sol 6080WA, Chatham/Tung Sol 6AS7G, Chatham/Tung-Sol 5998 & GEC 6080. These are the only ones worth spending money on imo


Thank you!


----------



## LoryWiv

Regarding adapters and compatibility in Elise, does the same adapter one uses for KT66, KT77, KT88 allow use of EL34?

I am also interested in EL3N, EL11, EL12spez or perhaps EL37....do one or several of these share adapters, even if require a different adapter than KT's?

Thanks for any info. on adapter compatibility and of course, impressions as to how any of these EL's sound in Elise for those who've tried them.


----------



## barontan2418

LoryWiv said:


> Regarding adapters and compatibility in Elise, does the same adapter one uses for KT66, KT77, KT88 allow use of EL34?
> 
> I am also interested in EL3N, EL11, EL12spez or perhaps EL37....do one or several of these share adapters, even if require a different adapter than KT's?
> 
> Thanks for any info. on adapter compatibility and of course, impressions as to how any of these EL's sound in Elise for those who've tried them.



I seem to remember H1 saying EL34  pins are wired differently to KT tubes although 34 might well fit the KT adapter so is a no no.
EL11 and EL12N  share the same adapter as does the EL12, EL12 spez has a top cap so requires different adapter. Cannot answer for KT37.


----------



## LoryWiv

Thanks @barontan, far be it from me to doubt @hypnos1 but when I checked in with @Deyan  (who made my KT / 6L6 adapters for Elise) he felt comfortable that EL34 (and EL37) were compatible with those adapters in Elise. He did not there may be a pin not utilized but didn't feel it would be problematic.


----------



## Traiguen

Deceneu808 said:


> Be careful about plugging in the Shuguang CV181s in the Power sockets. It is NOT a power tube. It's just a Chinese equivalent to the 6SN7 driver tubes. Keep the Svetlanas stock power tubes until you can grab a pair of either Mullard 6080, Chatham/Tung Sol 6080WA, Chatham/Tung Sol 6AS7G, Chatham/Tung-Sol 5998 & GEC 6080. These are the only ones worth spending money on imo


I got a pair of Mullard 6080 and I left the stock drive tubes, I just cannot stop listening to this amp + ZMF Verite Open, IMO they are absolutely wonderful together.  The sound is so inviting & pleasing, good bass, excellent mids - vocals are just a pleasure to listen to -  and super clear treble, does not sound vailed to me at all.  Looks like my beloved SS Headamp GSX Mini will get a break for a while!


----------



## shafat777

Traiguen said:


> I got a pair of Mullard 6080 and I left the stock drive tubes, I just cannot stop listening to this amp + ZMF Verite Open, IMO they are absolutely wonderful together.  The sound is so inviting & pleasing, good bass, excellent mids - vocals are just a pleasure to listen to -  and super clear treble, does not sound vailed to me at all.  Looks like my beloved SS Headamp GSX Mini will get a break for a while!


Just like you, i also use my Elise exclusively with my ZMF cans. However, last night i hooked up my silvergrade s4 to my Auteurs wih Auteur perf suedes straight into my GSX-mini and it sounded mind blowing-ly good. I typically use zmf 2k copper with my auteur but the mini likes all silver and it sounds really crisp. my kt88 + kt77 tube setup isnt super bass heavy so the silver cable helps in detail retrieval.


----------



## Traiguen

shafat777 said:


> Just like you, i also use my Elise exclusively with my ZMF cans. However, last night i hooked up my silvergrade s4 to my Auteurs wih Auteur perf suedes straight into my GSX-mini and it sounded mind blowing-ly good. I typically use zmf 2k copper with my auteur but the mini likes all silver and it sounds really crisp. my kt88 + kt77 tube setup isnt super bass heavy so the silver cable helps in detail retrieval.


I use the Universe perforated suedes with the Verite and it works perfect for me.
I have never been a believer on super expensive cables, I am not able to hear a difference so I settled for ZMF Lektrik S.  
I will try to stick to the Elise for a while and in a month or so I will try the GSX Mini again.   It is great to be able to enjoy both.


----------



## Deceneu808

I just pulled the trigger on the Elise. Mid May as of now... We'll see. Maybe they can pull it off earlier


----------



## pkcpga

Traiguen said:


> Hi everyone, I just pulled the trigger on an Elise. I had previously a bad experience with Ampsandsound Amps, I really hope I will be happy with the Elise.
> I am not planning on doing lots of tube rolling, but I got the following set - would you kindly let me know if you think they are a good choices.
> Power tubes: Shuguang Treasures CV181-Z, and the Driver: RCA VT-231.
> I will be using it with a ZMF Verite Open and a Focal Elegia.


Just curious what issues did you have with your amps and sound amp?  I will say besides the Utopia, my Stellia and Clear, Clear I no longer own, did not play well with tube amps, from Woo Audio or Pendant.  Curious if the Focal’s will with the Elise?


----------



## Traiguen

pkcpga said:


> Just curious what issues did you have with your amps and sound amp?  I will say besides the Utopia, my Stellia and Clear, Clear I no longer own, did not play well with tube amps, from Woo Audio or Pendant.  Curious if the Focal’s will with the Elise?


I tried two of their amps, the Leeloo Stereo - discontinued, and the Mogwai SE, did not find either very different from my SS Headamp GSX Mini, so I was not happy with either.  But, everybody loves them so it may very well be me.


----------



## pkcpga

Traiguen said:


> I tried two of their amps, the Leeloo Stereo - discontinued, and the Mogwai SE, did not find either very different from my SS Headamp GSX Mini, so I was not happy with either.  But, everybody loves them so it may very well be me.


I really like my Pendant amp over my WooAudio amp or my solid state.  But it’s personal taste and tubes used do make a big difference.  I personally did not love the Pendant with stock JJ tubes.  But gave yet to hear an amp I liked the JJ tubes through.


----------



## OctavianH

Deceneu808 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the Elise. Mid May as of now... We'll see. Maybe they can pull it off earlier



Do you get the new 2021 version? Several people speak about a new refresh of the Elise model due to be released this year.


----------



## Deceneu808

OctavianH said:


> Do you get the new 2021 version? Several people speak about a new refresh of the Elise model due to be released this year.


Don't know. I purchased the one they have on sale right now on feliksaudio. I'll send them an email and ask. Thanks for the info


----------



## OctavianH

Deceneu808 said:


> Don't know. I purchased the one they have on sale right now on feliksaudio. I'll send them an email and ask. Thanks for the info



Here are the details.


----------



## Deceneu808

OctavianH said:


> Here are the details.


I've sent them an email asking just this. Will wait and see their reply next week. If it's no more than June 2021 I'll wait but honestly I'd be happy either way.


----------



## OctavianH

Deceneu808 said:


> I've sent them an email asking just this. Will wait and see their reply next week. If it's no more than June 2021 I'll wait but honestly I'd be happy either way.



Good, better to be informed than not. I am also curious how soon they will release the new model, since I plan to sell mine when the next amplifier arrives.


----------



## Deceneu808

OctavianH said:


> Good, better to be informed than not. I am also curious how soon they will release the new model, since I plan to sell mine when the next amplifier arrives.


I have received info about a new revision model coming in a few weeks. They already moved production to the new 2021 models and will begin shipping in May. Official announcement will come in a few weeks


----------



## OctavianH

Thank you for info.


----------



## shafat777

Has anyone tried Tung-sol 7581a new issue with their Elise?


----------



## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Has anyone tried Tung-sol 7581a new issue with their Elise?


Yes, good but not better than GL KT88, perhaps a little warmer if that's what you are looking for.


----------



## soundchaos

Hey all,

I'm looking to pick up an Elise MK2 to pair with some ZMF's (Aelous and VO). I don't know much about tube rolling in them and there seems to be a ton of options. Can anyone recommend a good place/set to start as far as upgrading?


----------



## Traiguen

OctavianH said:


> Do you get the new 2021 version? Several people speak about a new refresh of the Elise model due to be released this year.


I emailed Feliks Audio and they said it is going to be a "face lift" nothing mayor.  They are not planning to provide an upgrade path for those who have bought the Elise recently.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Happy Weekend!!!! New review I hope you guys dig it!


----------



## Deceneu808 (Apr 12, 2021)

How is that the Elise MK2. It hasn't been announced yet. They also mentioned some face lift changes. That one just looks like the current Elise


----------



## LoryWiv (Apr 13, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> How is that the Elise MK2. It hasn't been announced yet. They also mentioned some face lift changes. That one just looks like the current Elise


AFAIK the current production Elise is Mk II, just not (yet) 2021 updated version.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 13, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> How is that the Elise MK2. It hasn't been announced yet. They also mentioned some face lift changes. That one just looks like the current Elise



Both of the North America Dealers who carry it @Deceneu808 have Elise MK2 under the description of the Amp.  It is confusing though I agree as Feliks themselves don't use that verbiage.  The unit I reviewed is currently the latest model Elise that was available which according to both distributors received some internal upgrades as described in the review from the previous version of the Elise.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 13, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> AFAIK the current production Elise is Mk II, just not (yet) 2021 updated version.


exactly..... @LoryWiv do you know what new revisions Feliks is saying they are going to add to the 2021 version and when they will be available?  I am curious as well, and does that go for their entire line of amps or just the Elise?


----------



## OctavianH (Apr 13, 2021)

It is called Mark II since 2018. In March 2018 I received my Elise, at that time called "MK2 (model 2018)". It was, I think, the second iteration of the product (originally released in 2015) which had some improvements over the fist one, and a much higher price (1200 EUR without tubes) than the first one (I think originally sold at 700 EUR). After the model 2018 they released model 2019 with minor changes (this is the one @LoryWiv has) and now they will release the new model 2021. This is the history of the Elise model, at least how I know it.


----------



## LoryWiv

MRphotography said:


> exactly..... @LoryWiv do you know what new revisions Feliks is saying they are going to add to the 2021 version and when they will be available?  I am curious as well, and does that go for their entire line of amps or just the Elise?


I have seen conflicting information, either just cosmetic changes or perhaps more substantive. So in short, no i'm nor certain what the difference will be for 2021 revision.


----------



## OctavianH

From what I read they add some power filtering. Might sound better without additional power conditioners.


----------



## Deceneu808

MRphotography said:


> Both of the North America Dealers who carry it @Deceneu808 have Elise MK2 under the description of the Amp.  It is confusing though I agree as Feliks themselves don't use that verbiage.  The unit I reviewed is currently the latest model Elise that was available which according to both distributors received some internal upgrades as described in the review from the previous version of the Elise.


Yeah weird that in the US it's marketed as the Elise Mk2 when on their .pl website just says Elise. That's why the confusion



MRphotography said:


> exactly..... @LoryWiv do you know what new revisions Feliks is saying they are going to add to the 2021 version and when they will be available?  I am curious as well, and does that go for their entire line of amps or just the Elise?


Some info was floating around about the power supply I think ? And some face lift features


----------



## Deceneu808

So I just woke up to an email from Lukasz at Feliks Audio. He said to quote "The new Elise from outside will look exactly the same so no wood on the chassis."
I asked about aesthetic changes because in the last email, about two weeks ago he said that they will soon announce the face lift changes on the Elise so I thought it's going to be something new like wood on the sides, similar to the Echo.

So scratch that off the list. Only internal changes


----------



## S0undJunk1e

So I've got an Elise arriving next week.  And of course I'm already thinking about tube rolling.   Does anyone have any suggestions for really maximizing the soundstage depth while maintaining a warm smooth sound?


----------



## Deceneu808

S0undJunk1e said:


> So I've got an Elise arriving next week.  And of course I'm already thinking about tube rolling.   Does anyone have any suggestions for really maximizing the soundstage depth while maintaining a warm smooth sound?


Nice. Is it the new version or the current listed Elise ? 
As far as tubes go the stock power tubes are fine but those Psvanes sound so clean and stright up solid state. Don't like them at all.

I highly recommend any of the bellow :

From left to right : Sylvania 6SN7WGTA, Sylvania VT-231 6SN7GT and for power tubes Chatham/Tung-Sol 6080WA, Mullard 6080, Tung-Sol/Chatham 5998





You can also search for Chatham/Tung Sol 6AS7G for power





For driver tubes also look for :

Ken-Rad VT 231 6SN7GT Black Glass, RCA VT-231 6SN7GT







BUT by far the most warm tube I've tried is the B65 mwt Marconi CV1988 6SN7GT. Hard to come by


----------



## S0undJunk1e (Apr 14, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> Nice. Is it the new version or the current listed Elise ?
> As far as tubes go the stock power tubes are fine but those Psvanes sound so clean and stright up solid state. Don't like them at all.
> 
> I highly recommend any of the bellow :
> ...


Amazing info.  Thank You.   Which do you think does the best to create that famous tube 3D soundstage?   I bought mine used,  it's a couple months old.   But I will be running it off an isolation transformer so I'm not too worried about some extra power filtering.


----------



## Deceneu808 (Apr 14, 2021)

S0undJunk1e said:


> Amazing info.  Thank You.   Which do you think does the best to create that famous tube 3D soundstage?   I bought mine used,  it's a couple months old.   But I will be running it off an isolation transformer so I'm not too worried about some extra power filtering.


The short bottle Sylvanias, the WGTAs are a little bit on the warm side, very good midrange but overall a little bit dry in the highs. Good bass though.
The VT-231s, Sylvanias , are more neutral throughtout the whole frequency range. My second favourite after the B65 due to the sonic differences.

TBH all of them have their own characteristics and all sound tubey, they all add a little flavour to the amp itself so my advice is to get whatever you can find for a good deal.

As far as power tubes go, the 6080, be it Mullard or Tung-Sol/Chatham, they have great soundstage. Better than any 6AS7G or the 5998 but the last two do better in every other department. You just have to pull the trigger on some pairs to begin with and add a second pair for each tube, in time. But as a general rule you either end up going down the rabbit hole and buy 1000 tubes or just grab something that's good and roll with it for life. Thing is with tubes, you have to find your own shape of sound that you enjoy and the most important thing is the headphone itself and last but not least the type of music that you listen to. So take everything you read with a grain of salt and do not overspend on tubes, at least not now. Just set up the amp and listen to it. If I were you I'd just stick with the stock tubes for some time. My dislike of the Psvanes might not apply to you


----------



## S0undJunk1e (Apr 16, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> The short bottle Sylvanias, the WGTAs are a little bit on the warm side, very good midrange but overall a little bit dry in the highs. Good bass though.
> The VT-231s, Sylvanias , are more neutral throughtout the whole frequency range. My second favourite after the B65 due to the sonic differences.
> 
> TBH all of them have their own characteristics and all sound tubey, they all add a little flavour to the amp itself so my advice is to get whatever you can find for a good deal.
> ...


Good Advice, thanks.   This will be my 4th tube amp,  but I haven't done much tube rolling at all.  They all used 6922 tubes and I got some NOS Reflector tubes a while ago and never looked back.  Tried a couple others but none could come close.     Actually,  you could kind of say they are a bit solid state sounding because they are very clean, detailed and extended in the top end.  The sound is elegant though,  in a way I doubt solid state could ever match.    Maybe I should just try to find the same sound with these types of tubes. Or not,  it's fun trying out new things.  Which means I'll probably be the 1000 tube guy.


----------



## LoryWiv

Mullard EL34 driven by Sylvania VT115A.  The Mullards bring warmth, body, and gorgeous mids. The Sylvanias add balance, air and sparkle up top. Nice synergy.


----------



## S0undJunk1e

LoryWiv said:


> Mullard EL34 driven by Sylvania VT115A.  The Mullards bring warmth, body, and gorgeous mids. The Sylvanias add balance, air and sparkle up top. Nice synergy.


Do you just need an adapter for the EL34 tubes,  or is there something else you need to do?


----------



## LoryWiv

Just an adapter, made by head-fi-er @Deyan.


----------



## der luda

A question and request to the Elise owners and Tubes Roller .. 

who has the station wagon, 
Psvane CV181-T-MII / 2 
Mullard 6080 
and how would you describe this combination?

thank you


----------



## Melting735

der luda said:


> A question and request to the Elise owners and Tubes Roller ..
> 
> who has the station wagon,
> Psvane CV181-T-MII / 2
> ...


I had this combo. One of my favorite at a reasonable price.  Nice mid and right amount of bass.


----------



## LoryWiv

Sylvania VT-107A drivers --> GEC 6V6G powers: running cool, sounding great!


----------



## Louisiana

The whole time I think about whether I should buy an Elise as well.
Recently had the Echo MKII and it sounded just like an SS amp to me which is why I sold it again.
Headphones would be Empy and Auteur, does someone have them with the Elise, and can I tell you something about them?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Melting735

Louisiana said:


> The whole time I think about whether I should buy an Elise as well.
> Recently had the Echo MKII and it sounded just like an SS amp to me which is why I sold it again.
> Headphones would be Empy and Auteur, does someone have them with the Elise, and can I tell you something about them?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You will get tubey sound on Elise for sure, but I don't particularly like to pair my empy with Elise. Auteur should be sweet.


----------



## der luda

Today I had a strong mental attack ... I bought the Elise MK II 
....and also the Psvane CV181-T-MII / 2 


After a long time ... very long testing and thinking, that was my big switch to tube / analog amplifier. 
A small, inexpensive hybrid amp gave me so much pleasure that this step had to be taken.


----------



## LoryWiv

Louisiana said:


> The whole time I think about whether I should buy an Elise as well.
> Recently had the Echo MKII and it sounded just like an SS amp to me which is why I sold it again.
> Headphones would be Empy and Auteur, does someone have them with the Elise, and can I tell you something about them?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Elise to Auteur is my daily driver, absolutely wonderful together.


----------



## Louisiana

LoryWiv said:


> Elise to Auteur is my daily driver, absolutely wonderful together.


With Stock tubes?


----------



## LoryWiv

It's been a while since I've run stock, see my photo 6 or so posts above.


----------



## Louisiana

LoryWiv said:


> It's been a while since I've run stock, see my photo 6 or so posts above.


LOL, sorry, I could of course have seen that myself.
Thank you


----------



## Deceneu808

Today marks the 40th day since I've placed my order. The wait is killing me. Still around 2-3 weeks to go


----------



## Melting735

Deceneu808 said:


> Today marks the 40th day since I've placed my order. The wait is killing me. Still around 2-3 weeks to go


Haha, you won't disappoint once you receive it.


----------



## der luda

Deceneu808 said:


> Today marks the 40th day since I've placed my order. The wait is killing me. Still around 2-3 weeks to go


.
..that is, however, a torture, you ordered directly? 

I ordered mine on Sunday, it was delivered today ..
 + 2 x Psvane CV181-T-MII / 2 / 6SN7GT Will be unpacked in peace tomorrow afternoon  

I am incredibly happy about this tube amp, long search ... an old dream comes true


----------



## OctavianH

Pictures or it did not happen.


----------



## Deceneu808

der luda said:


> .
> ..that is, however, a torture, you ordered directly?
> 
> I ordered mine on Sunday, it was delivered today ..
> ...


Yes I ordered directly and I agreed to wait for the revised version of it. I just got and email saying they have already started shipping the new ones and I may get it in about two weeks time. Next week the announcement will be up.

"It’s going to get some features from Euforia (like the trafo or current sources generator) but will keep its distinct, more warmer signature. "


----------



## der luda

OctavianH said:


> Pictures or it did not happen.



....still a few hours


----------



## OctavianH

der luda said:


> ....still a few hours



The price for the new model is the same as the one from the website?


----------



## Magol79 (May 1, 2021)

I am thinking of upgrading from the Echo and Espressivo amps to the Elise. Has anyone done this already? I am trying to figure out what I would gain sonically.

Right now I have the Auteur and VC on the Echo and the VO on the Espressivo. I find that the VO synergizes better with the brighter Espressivo.

If I could replace both amps with the Elise, while maintaining a good synergy over all three headphones, then that could both simplify and improve my setup. The RME ADI-2 would be my dac.

Any input is appreciated.


----------



## der luda

OctavianH said:


> The price for the new model is the same as the one from the website?


I bought it from a dealer in Germany (there is no Austria). 
Very serious well-known man, is a brand new model March / April 2021 Was 100.- more expensive than on the HP from Feliks. That was ok for me, because I have a dealer who has helped me further and in the event of problems / warranty, a safe, quick contact


----------



## der luda

Elise unpacked, set up and rolled the tubes ... 
I've been playing him for 20 hours now, and what can I say .... 30 years of hi-fi and always looking for the final sound, it was always in my head 

The Elise with the Focal Clear MG, blue Dragon cable, Audioplan power cable. 
I didn't expect it that way, not in the least .... how much money I've thrown out for disappointments !! 

Amps around 4..5,000.- that didn't meet my expectations. 

This simple tube amp enchanted me from the first second, such an airy, fine stage, so real and sweet, yet the details fly around in the room. The Elise plays with the Clear in a playful way and can still use the double bass with a bass to the point in a force ... that makes you want to cry for joy 

 I'm already excited for the test with the Audeze LCD X and Hifiman Ananda


----------



## LoryWiv

Magol79 said:


> I am thinking of upgrading from the Echo and Espressivo amps to the Elise. Has anyone done this already? I am trying to figure out what I would gain sonically.
> 
> Right now I have the Auteur and VC on the Echo and the VO on the Espressivo. I find that the VO synergizes better with the brighter Espressivo.
> 
> ...


I can only assure you that Elise --> Aueur is a wonderful combination.


----------



## Magol79

LoryWiv said:


> I can only assure you that Elise --> Aueur is a wonderful combination.


I can imagine that. The first time I tried the Auteur on the Echo had me amazed at how much better it sounded on tubes.


----------



## LoryWiv (May 2, 2021)

Another beauty of Elise is how incredibly responsive it is to tube rolling,. Very few combos sound bad but one can definitely vary the flavor. Elise --> Auteur is a great platform for exploring sound changes with different tube types. Currently using some affordable Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB's driving some not so affordable GEC KT88's w/adapters:


----------



## shafat777 (May 2, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> Another beauty of Elise is how incredibly responsive it is to tube rolling,. Very few combos sound bad but one can definitely vary the flavor. Elise --> Auteur is a great platform for exploring sound changes with different tube types. Currently using some affordable Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB's driving some not so affordable GEC KT88's w/adapters:


Just to add to your fantastic post about the beloved Elise, this amp is excellent with so many headphones. Of all the headphones i own, or have owned in the past, only a select few headphones (low impedance) dont pair well. Even my Hekse sounds glorious with my Elise. It is a very versatile amp with tons of tube rolling options.


----------



## lalawilson168

der luda said:


> Elise unpacked, set up and rolled the tubes ...
> I've been playing him for 20 hours now, and what can I say .... 30 years of hi-fi and always looking for the final sound, it was always in my head
> 
> The Elise with the Focal Clear MG, blue Dragon cable, Audioplan power cable.
> ...


May I ask if those are stock tubes? cos they look different to the website ones. I will be recieving mine on Thursday, cant wait.


----------



## der luda

lalawilson168 said:


> May I ask if those are stock tubes? cos they look different to the website ones. I will be recieving mine on Thursday, cant wait.



these are these
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/psvane-cv181-t-mii/2/6sn7gt-gemachtes-paar


----------



## LoryWiv (May 4, 2021)

Hi all, kind of quiet in here. I have a question about Elise's auto-bias circuitry and how that affects compatibility with non-standard tubes. Specifically, I am interested in trying Mullard EL37 which Deyan has assured me his 6L6 to 6AS7 adapters accommodate. However, reading *here* it states that these tubes can substitute for 6L6"as long "as your amp does not put more than 360 volts on the plate and 270 volts at 2.5 watts on the screen." I am not certain how to get this information for Elise, not if it is even applicable with auto-bias and the EL37 tubes running triode-strapped with adapters. Lastly, while I plan to use the EL37 in power (output) slots, would it be safe to try them as drivers since my understanding is that auto-bias circuitry is applied to power slots, unsure if to driver slots as well.

Perhaps I am worrying too much but would love to learn regarding these questions both the principles and data to be mindful of, as well as know if others have run EL37 successfully in power / driver slots with Elise. Thanks!


----------



## OctavianH

I think you worry too much. As far as I know Elise/Euforia have less than 200V plate voltage (or maybe equal). And also as far as I know bias works for both powers and drivers. I've tried countless combinations without problems.


----------



## LoryWiv

Thanks @OctavianH. Should I worry that I worry too much? Kidding, that is reassuring and i think I'll pull the trigger on EL37's for my next adventure. BTW congrats on your new Eternity amp. I see Elise has no place in your signature....is Eternity that much better?


----------



## OctavianH (May 5, 2021)

My signature usually mentions what I am currently listening, not all the equipment I have. I still have the Elise but I plan to sell it since I do not have time for it. But I have also a Beyerdynamic A2 which I never use, so the signature does not contain it...

Now to answer to your question:

Eternity is not better than Elise, but different. And I am not sure if the difference is caused by the manufacturer or the specific signature of a SET amplifier compared to an OTL. I have a feeling that it is a combination of both. As you most probably know, UltraSonic amplifiers have a modern approach on electronic tube design using SS components alongside tubes. Being an unconventional design it provides a different signature than other classic amplifiers. Elise is a very versatile and easy to use amplifier, where you can plug a very wide variety of tubes and obtain immediate changes. More than this it is very responsive to interconnect cables and the rest of the line. But Elise was always for me a little bit harsh on some specific albums and too tubey sounding. This is why I always tried to tame it using combinations with great detail, closer maybe to solid state. Eternity is in the opposite direction, it sounds somehow between a tube amplifier and a solid state one, combining the detail and dynamics of SS with the lack of harshness of a tube amplifier. On Eternity I always try to add distortion, on Elise I was always trying to lower it. The reason I have decided to go for Eternity, and this amplifier was born, because it is the first small headphone only amplifier made by UltraSonic, was that for almost 2 years I was listening only to KT66 and tubes from the family of 6V6. These tubes were the ones providing me more clarity and reducing the harshness on Elise, alongside some silver interconnects which have the same effect. So I wanted an amplifier built for them, to renounce on the adapters and to use the tubes properly. On Eternity the same combination is not possbile, 6V6 can be used only in output, but on input I have 6J5 which are sounding very clean and towards the sound of the 6V6 as drivers in Elise. But the problem on Eternity is that sometimes I miss a little bit of that harshness, everything sounds bold and clean, but sometimes dull and lifeless. And Eternity is much harder to use than Elise, because you need to manually adjust bias and take brakes between rolling and so on. Not bad compared to other amplifiers in the same category, but harder than F.A. And Eternity needs electrically matched pairs of tubes, especially in the input stage, where Elise, using both triodes of a 6SN7 in parallel, does not really care about internally matching. In short:
- Elise is more versatile, easier to use, warm and forgiving, more intimate
- Eternity is more complex, clean and clear sounding to a point you miss distortion, wide sounstage
- I think Eternity works best with T1.2 because it is warmer, romantic and adds some distortion
- I think Elise works better with more neutral headphones (HD800, Auteur, Verite)
Of course, you can combine them differently and roll tubes, but I try to answer in a simple way. And I do not fully understand it yet either.

Well, I hope you got an idea.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> *Well, I hope you got an idea.*


Yes, I do. You communicated it very well and I hope you visit us here in Elise forum to update us on your journey!


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## regally

Hey guys, I'm thinking of getting an Elise but I need a 230V one. Does anyone know if they ship to Singapore? And should I order it through their http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php website? It says 2019 model. Is this the latest model?


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## lalawilson168

regally said:


> Hey guys, I'm thinking of getting an Elise but I need a 230V one. Does anyone know if they ship to Singapore? And should I order it through their http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php website? It says 2019 model. Is this the latest model?


I ordered one 2 mths ago which is arriving today, I live in HK. send an email to them, Lukasz is very responsive. But essentially 230v and 2021 model is what I have ordered. idk if singapore has GST, but HK doesnt so he gave me a Ex VAT/GST price as well


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## regally

lalawilson168 said:


> I ordered one 2 mths ago which is arriving today, I live in HK. send an email to them, Lukasz is very responsive. But essentially 230v and 2021 model is what I have ordered. idk if singapore has GST, but HK doesnt so he gave me a Ex VAT/GST price as well


Did you order from their website directly? I sent them an email to them, is this the correct email?: info@feliksaudio.pl


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## lalawilson168

regally said:


> Did you order from their website directly? I sent them an email to them, is this the correct email?: info@feliksaudio.pl


thats the correct email, they will send you a paypal link after confirming the order


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## regally

lalawilson168 said:


> thats the correct email, they will send you a paypal link after confirming the order


Thanks!


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## LoryWiv

I'm really enjoying 6V6 drivers in Elise (w/Deyan's adapters). These are 1945 Ken-Rad VT-107A:


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## LoryWiv

On we roll! Now GEC 6V6G driving my newly acquired Mullard EL37's, sublime! I principally listen to classical music but this tube set is so visceral it called out for some classic soul jazz: Kenny Burrell with Stanley Turrentine on "Midnight Blue". Oh yea, try not to tap your feet. I dare you, man!


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## Magol79

Has anyone gotten their 2021 rev. Elise yet?


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## Deceneu808 (May 28, 2021)

Magol79 said:


> Has anyone gotten their 2021 rev. Elise yet?


Just got my delivery notification. Should arrive by 7th of June. Excited !!!


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## antisocialgarlic

Hi, has anyone been successful using the Elise Mark 1 output to a power amp. If so could you recommend a power amp. Cheers


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## der luda

lalawilson168 said:


> I ordered one 2 mths ago which is arriving today, I live in HK. send an email to them, Lukasz is very responsive. But essentially 230v and 2021 model is what I have ordered. idk if singapore has GST, but HK doesnt so he gave me a Ex VAT/GST price as well



what serial number do you have, on the underside are they indicated on a separate placard? would have to be  3xx


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## Deceneu808

It's here. 2021 Elise


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## Karlsushi

antisocialgarlic said:


> Hi, has anyone been successful using the Elise Mark 1 output to a power amp. If so could you recommend a power amp. Cheers


I have just taken delivery of a new 2021 Elise and will be using it as a preamp as well as a headphone amp. Of course a lot depends on the speakers you are hoping to drive and the style of music you prefer, but I have found that a good combination for a tube preamp in general is to use a Class D power amp. I find the combination of the power, transparency and accuracy of Class D driving the speakers, coupled with the euphonics and musicality of tubes to be a winning combination.

I have my Elise hooked-up to an XTZ Edge A2-300 power amp which is a decent budget Class D amp using a B&O Ice Power module and is doing a fine job.

Using the Elise as a preamp is by no means an afterthought compared with its excellent headphone capabilities as it makes a fabulous pre.


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## antisocialgarlic

Karlsushi said:


> I have just taken delivery of a new 2021 Elise and will be using it as a preamp as well as a headphone amp. Of course a lot depends on the speakers you are hoping to drive and the style of music you prefer, but I have found that a good combination for a tube preamp in general is to use a Class D power amp. I find the combination of the power, transparency and accuracy of Class D driving the speakers, coupled with the euphonics and musicality of tubes to be a winning combination.
> 
> I have my Elise hooked-up to an XTZ Edge A2-300 power amp which is a decent budget Class D amp using a B&O Ice Power module and is doing a fine job.
> 
> Using the Elise as a preamp is by no means an afterthought compared with its excellent headphone capabilities as it makes a fabulous pre.


superb, thank you very much for your reply. The A2- 300 looks interesting. Cheers!


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## LoryWiv

Congrats to @Deceneu808 and @Karlsushi on receiving the update Elise 2021. Can you comment on what changes / upgrades it brings over 2019 model?

Thanks and looking forward to your impressions!


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## Deceneu808 (Jun 4, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> Congrats to @Deceneu808 and @Karlsushi on receiving the update Elise 2021. Can you comment on what changes / upgrades it brings over 2019 model?
> 
> Thanks and looking forward to your impressions!


Other than what Lukasz from Feliks told me regarding some internal changes I can't really speak about comparing it to the old one. I haven't had the chance to listen to the 2020 pre revision. As far as looks go they seem to be identical. I imagine they sound more or less the same. I do think though they need to update the power specs on this thing as I feel it puts out way more than the specified 200mw. I tested high impedance cans 300Ohm and 600Ohm with the ADI-DAC set to -12db and 10-11 o clock it gets really loud so plenty of power to play with. Dynamics are great. I absolutely love the way this amplifier presents sound. It's like cooking something yourself and actually nailing the recipe versus ordering from a restaurant. It's a very special amp this one. I will do some tube rolling in the coming weeks and note down some more impressions as well as comparing it to my old DV which is out of order right now so I hope my memory is still intact.


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## Karlsushi

I only ever had the previous version on a week long home loan. I sent it back, in part due to practical reasons, but also because it was right at the beginning of my first dabble into tube amplification and was drawn in by suggestions that an OTL amp wouldn't drive my LCD2's properly. 

Well, after around 7 months of researching alternatives, during which time all I could think about was the Elise sound when listening to other amps, I have come right back to where I started.

From what I remember of the Elise I demo'd last October, I am hearing all of the things within the sound that I enjoyed back then, so my instinct is that, if there are any audible changes to the 2021 version, they are very small.

The closest any amp came during my research was the World Audio Designs HD3S which at half the price is an excellent amp, also more than capable of driving the LCD2's, but where the Elise has the edge is a greater sense of air and space and an irresistible euphonic sound.

I am using 6080 tubes instead of the stock power tubes, primarily for practical reasons (so it fits inside my shelving unit), but they sound very similar in character to how I remember it with the stock tubes.

Currently using some General Electric 6080's but have some 6080 Mullards on the way too as an alternative. I'm not big into tube rolling, but the option is certainly there with the Elise it seems.

For now, I'm just enjoying the music


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## Karlsushi

Deceneu808 said:


> I do think though they need to update the power specs on this thing as I feel it puts out way more than the specified 200mw. I tested high impedance cans 300Ohm and 600Ohm with the ADI-DAC set to -12db and 10-11 o clock it gets really loud so plenty of power to play with


I agree with the point, but as I'm sure others will point out, the way an amp controls your cans has as much to do with current as it does with power.  Feliks don't supply a current rating but I expect this would go some way to explain why it feels more 'powerful' than the power rating suggests.  One thing that tubes are great at is providing current (and is why I firmly believe OTL amps are perfectly well suited to planars, contrary to popular belief).

Another explanation for the 'loudness' at relatively low volume position is presumably also the reasonably high gain that the Elise has (20dB).  The sensitivity of your cans also plays a part almost as much as impedance does.

Going back to the 2021 model changes though, I purchased mine from the only authorised UK supplier (The Audiobarn - a great shop with great service I might add) and on their website it states:

"_Main changes will be new transformer, significantly improve thermal capacity & cooling (good for these tube rollers) and redesigned internal shielding to better protect from interferences. Looks wise – no change hence previous pictures will apply_".

Reading between the lines, the only thing there that has any potential to affect the sound seems to be the use of a new transformer, but since the transformers are just for the power supply on the Elise (as oppose to on the output), that is unlikely to majorly change the sound I would think.

So I think the 2021 version is just some tweaking to what I think most will agree, is already a winning formula.  I for one am glad it hasn't changed too much, because the sound I heard last October on the previous model is precisely why I bought it!


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## jurumal

I have a ZMF Verite Closed I'd like to try on a Feliks amp. The closest audio store I know of in my area is Upscale Audio, but they currently do not have any weekend accommodations for demos. I'm only free on the weekends to travel to an audio store. I understand if anyone reading this would be against this I idea I'm going to propose, but I'm asking if anyone in the LA/Orange/Riverside/San Bernardino counties would allow me to try a Feliks amp in exchange for listening time with a ZMF VC. I can provide a timestamp with my VC to prove I'm serious. Please PM if interested.

Alternatively, if anyone knows if there's an audio store in the aforementioned counties besides Upscale Audio that has a tube amp for demo, please let me know.


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## lalawilson168

jurumal said:


> I have a ZMF Verite Closed I'd like to try on a Feliks amp. The closest audio store I know of in my area is Upscale Audio, but they currently do not have any weekend accommodations for demos. I'm only free on the weekends to travel to an audio store. I understand if anyone reading this would be against this I idea I'm going to propose, but I'm asking if anyone in the LA/Orange/Riverside/San Bernardino counties would allow me to try a Feliks amp in exchange for listening time with a ZMF VC. I can provide a timestamp with my VC to prove I'm serious. Please PM if interested.
> 
> Alternatively, if anyone knows if there's an audio store in the aforementioned counties besides Upscale Audio that has a tube amp for demo, please let me know.


would love to see what you think of the VC Elise combo, for me the VC sounds better on solid state than any of my otl tube amps, and sry I don't live in the states so can't help but good luck


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## jurumal

lalawilson168 said:


> would love to see what you think of the VC Elise combo, for me the VC sounds better on solid state than any of my otl tube amps, and sry I don't live in the states so can't help but good luck


All good. Thanks for the reply. I’d be happy to share impressions once I get listening time on a Feliks amp. I’m also looking to try it out on a Primaluna which is probably more difficult to come by.


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## LoryWiv (Jun 26, 2021)

jurumal said:


> All good. Thanks for the reply. I’d be happy to share impressions once I get listening time on a Feliks amp. I’m also looking to try it out on a Primaluna which is probably more difficult to come by.


In several months, Canjam SoCal may afford you the opportunity to hear both FA and PrimaLuna if Upscale attends. I bought my Elise from Upscale at canjam, and there was a show discount, I've been enjoying Elise / Auteur greatly ever since!


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## jurumal

LoryWiv said:


> In several months, Canjam SoCal may afford you the opportunity to hear both FA and primaLuna if Upscale attends. I bought my Elise from Upscale at canjam, and there was a show discount, I've been enjoying Elise / Auteur greatly ever since!


Already plan on going


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## herdingunicorns

I am also considering a FA amp for my VC and live in LA with the same weekend issue of testing at upscale. Curious to hear your thoughts if you get one.


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## OctavianH

I've seen they updated the website, but also the price, as expected, and they removed the option to buy it without tubes.


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## Deceneu808

OctavianH said:


> I've seen they updated the website, but also the price, as expected, and they removed the option to buy it without tubes.


About time they updated the site. I guess I got a really good price then


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## LoryWiv

Something old, something new. Makes my music sound so true.


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## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> Something old, something new. Makes my music sound so true.


Excellent set of tubes boss. I am running the exact same setup. Love my GL kt88 with deyans adapters. Are those KR VT-231? IF so, then we are running identical set of tubes.


----------



## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Excellent set of tubes boss. I am running the exact same setup. Love my GL kt88 with deyans adapters. Are those KR VT-231? IF so, then we are running identical set of tubes.


Yes sir, GL KT-88 / KR VT-231. Great minds thinking alike, @shafat777!


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## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> Yes sir, GL KT-88 / KR VT-231. Great minds thinking alike, @shafat777!


Thank you. I think Ive had this combo for almost 5 months now and I have definitely memorized the sound signature it creates with my ZMFs. Now i think I might change just the driver tubes. I m keeping the GLs intact cuz they sound so full with just about any drive tube combo. As for the driver tubes, i might dust off my GL kt77 and give that a shot. I ran those for two weeks back when i first got my Elise and didnt really pay attention to the sound signature. 

But to be honest, I absolutely love my current tube setup and i know for a fact, if nopthing else works, i can always fall back to that setup.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Can the Elise(2021 version) also deliver 7A over all 4 slots combined, or is it less compared to the Euforia?

(Since it's power output is noteably lower than Euforia AE I'm concerned that one has to okay more attention when rolling unsupported tubes like KT88)


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## LoryWiv (Jul 24, 2021)

I try to stay near the amperage of stock tubes, 6.2A total, although I suspect going up to 6.5A or so would be fine based on a pervious post, sorry I don't have the exact source handy.

I do definitely know that 4X KT88's run fine = 6.4A from prior experience.


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> I try to stay near the amperage of stock tubes, 6.2A total, although I suspect going up to 6.5A or so would be fine based on a pervious post, sorry I don't have the exact source handy.
> 
> I do definitely know that 4X KT88's run fine = 6.2A from prior experience.


4x KT88 is 6.4A

I'm more concerned if something like 2xEL 34 + 2xKT150 also works (6.8A)

It works fine on the Euforia from what I read in thr other thread.

I guess when asking Feliks Audio directly they just say that it's not recommended and I'd Lose the warranty, or something along those lines


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## LoryWiv (Jul 24, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> 4x KT88 is 6.4A
> 
> I'm more concerned if something like 2xEL 34 + 2xKT150 also works (6.8A)
> 
> ...


Of course you are right, corrected my post.  Personally I disliked KT150 in Elise (brawny to a fault, not very musical) but I know that's not your question.

I did find prior posts confirming 6.5A as top total heater current amperage. Here is one from 2019:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/post-15077524


----------



## shafat777

@LoryWiv 

I saw your post from May when you were running KT88 as powers and Ken rad vt107a as drivers. Compared to your setup now with kt88 power and Ken rad vt-231 as drivers, which one do you prefer? 

I just instlaled my kt77 as drivers and it sounded bloomy and im missing the tight bass of the ken rad. Do you have recommendations on a set of ken rad drivers, other than vt-231 that sounds well with GL KT88 powers? 

Thanks


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## LoryWiv (Jul 25, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> @LoryWiv
> 
> I saw your post from May when you were running KT88 as powers and Ken rad vt107a as drivers. Compared to your setup now with kt88 power and Ken rad vt-231 as drivers, which one do you prefer?
> 
> ...


Hi @shafat777. The VT 107A were quite good but I'm enjoying the GL KT-88 / VT-231 pairing. I don't recall if in May I was using different, vintage GEC (British) KT-88's which are a bit warmer then the new production (Russian) Gold Lions such that the bass strength of KR VT-231 may have been been too much of a good thing.

So to sum, with these GL KT-88 as powers I think KR VT-231 is the best driver synergy I've found. I completely understand the urge to try different combinations seeking that next level of magic but no immediate recommendations.


----------



## LoryWiv

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @shafat777. The VT 107A were quite good but I'm enjoying the GL KT-88 / VT-231 pairing. I don't recall if in May I was using different, vintage GEC (British) KT-88's which are a bit warmer then the new production (Russian) Gold Lions such that the bass strength of KR VT-231 may have been been too much of a good thing.
> 
> So to sum, with these GL KT-88 as powers I think KR VT-231 is the best driver synergy I've found. I completely understand the urge to try different combinations seeking that next level of magic but no immediate recommendations.


Darn my curiosity: did a bit of rolling to this fine Sunday. Wife is away, promised myself I wouldn't work today so why not.

1st up was Mullard EL37 powers, GEC KT-77 drivers. This combo. added note wight and a visceral quality the excellent but polite GL Kt-88 / KR VT-231 lacked. However, the bass was not as satisfying and some of the instrument separation, refinement was less. 

Next, as @shafat777 had jogged my memory I slotted in the vintage GEC KT-88 powers with KR VT-107A drivers. Actually quite a nice tube set together, more refined than the EL37 / KT-77 and perhaps a bit more emotion than the FL KT-88 / KR VT-231, although the latter is still king for bass presentation. Of course I cold just use the KR VT-231 drtivers but I think I'll just enjoy the music for a while and then explore further. So many tubes and so little time...ain't it the truth!


----------



## shafat777

I, too find the GL Kt88 and KR vt231 combo to be the best that ive heard with my Elise. Now granted that my tube rolling story isnt as expansive as Lory, but i must say that this combo jives extremely well all of my ZMF cans, and those are the only headphones i use with my Elise. 

One thing however, i might try a set of KR VT107a like Lory back in the day and see if that does anything. I have searched on ebay and those tubes seems reasonably priced. Until then KR Vt231 will do. GL KT88 is staying put as my power tubes.


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## LoryWiv (Jul 26, 2021)

You're right, @shafat777, one of the nice things about 6V6 / VT-107A;s (with Deyan's adapters) is they are less pricey and can sound great. I'm driving GEC KT-88's now with some inexpensive Tung-Sol black glass 6V6GT that cost about 1/5th if the KR VT-231 and they look sharp and sound great. Treble may actually be better extended than the KR, sounds so sweet with classical piano music by Haydn through my ZMF Auteur. Bottom line is it is nice to have options for Elise, a tube roller's dream OTL IMO, some of which can bring a pleasing and different flavor to the sound without the need for a second mortgage.


----------



## LoryWiv

Even inexpensive 6BL7's sound great in Elise...of course the high quality (and pricey) Mullard EL37 powers help.


----------



## Karlsushi (Aug 2, 2021)

Hi Elise fans.

I'm sure this question has been asked before, so apologies, but having now found a wonderful headphone amp in the Elise (well, once it's been repaired anyway - that's another story), I am researching headphones that might be a better match than my LCD2s.

I find the combination of Elise and the LCD2s to be a great match, but I am acutely aware of the general consensus that OTL amps are better suited to higher impedance cans and may not have the current/power best suited for planars.

So, if anyone has any suggestions for the ultimate (open-backed) headphone for the Elise (notwithstanding personal preference of course), to be added to my demo shortlist at under £1700 ($2000) (new), I'd be most grateful to hear them.

Currently I have the following:

- Sennheiser HD800s
- Grado GS2000e/3000e
- ZMF Auteur

Any others that ought to be on my list?

Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## OctavianH (Aug 2, 2021)

I see that all your choices go towards a neutral sounding headphone. I would put on that list also the Audio-Technica ATH-ADX5000.
A few words about it: it is a technical, dynamic and very detailed headphone, very neutral, sometimes sharp. The comfort is great (light headband) but the included cable is crap, microphonic, not flexible and 3m long. I would say it is tuned for classical/jazz, you are somewhere in the 3rd row at a jazz concert. Not quite suitable for modern music. Depending on your musical taste, might not be the best choice. Do not buy it without audition, try it if you have the chance.


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## ThanatosVI

Karlsushi said:


> Hi Elise fans.
> 
> I'm sure this question has been asked before, so apologies, but having now found a wonderful headphone amp in the Elise (well, once it's been repaired anyway - that's another story), I am researching headphones that might be a better match than my LCD2s.
> 
> ...


The Elise has no Problem even with impedances as low as 32 Ohm.
That is pretty unique for an OTL.

I don't think that this is the issue here.
Up to 2k the Hifiman Arya is worth a recommendation.


----------



## connieflyer

I use the Oppo PM1 with no problem whatsoever.  Like to switch from that to the Senn 800 as my main phones now.  Currently using the 6bl7's as power and an Nos RCA 6N7 for drivers and have been enjoying this for a few weeks now.  Made a small error in judgement the other day, was going to try my KR 231's again as drivers and one end of one of the boxes came loose.   Normally I have always held the boxes flat, one small mistake, just once, now no longer have a pair. Made a lovely sound on the floor, pieces easy to locate as the glass was black!  So if anyone is looking for one replacement I have one.


----------



## LoryWiv

Karlsushi said:


> Hi Elise fans.
> 
> I'm sure this question has been asked before, so apologies, but having now found a wonderful headphone amp in the Elise (well, once it's been repaired anyway - that's another story), I am researching headphones that might be a better match than my LCD2s.
> 
> ...



Absolutely *Auteur*, that HP is my daily driver with Elise and I still find it to be a phenomenal pairing.

In that price range I would also consider Focal Clear Mg. Been reading good things about it.


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning LoryWiv, I see that you also like the Auteur a lot of folks on here do.  I just looked them over and look very nice indeed. I was drawn to the LTD Auteur Bocote, of course no where around here to try them, so since I have known you a long time and trust your judgement, was wondering if you could tell me how they compare sonically to other phones in this price range..  I appreciate it, thanks in advance.  I have the Senn 800, Oppo PM1 and these that I no longer use and will be putting up for sale,  Headfiman 560 and 400i still.
​


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## LoryWiv (Aug 4, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning LoryWiv, I see that you also like the Auteur a lot of folks on here do.  I just looked them over and look very nice indeed. I was drawn to the LTD Auteur Bocote, of course no where around here to try them, so since I have known you a long time and trust your judgement, was wondering if you could tell me how they compare sonically to other phones in this price range..  I appreciate it, thanks in advance.  I have the Senn 800, Oppo PM1 and these that I no longer use and will be putting up for sale,  Headfiman 560 and 400i still.
> ​


Hi CF, and thank you for the kind words. I  hope you are well. I think of Auteur as neutral with just a tad of warmth, and particularly strong in the midrange. Some find the treble sibilant, I thought that briefly but after 30-50 hours of use I now think treble is spot on, extended but never overly bright or fatiguing. Auteur is NOT a bass cannon (which i don't care for) but can and does reproduce bass splendidly when it is present, just not accentuated.

The other thing I love about Auteur, in addition to it's handsome looks and intrinsic sound quality, is how well it partners with Elise in my tube rolling journey. I have not once been able to make Auteur sound "bad" (except on truly horrible source recordings) but it does change substantially as I roll tubes in Elise,  making it a great companion.

If I were looking now the only other HP in this price range I would look at is Focal Clear Mg. Several of the Kennertons catch my eye at times but still not sure what to make of them, and also the ZMF Verite but that is quite a bit pricier.

Sorry I can't offer more direct comparisons but Auteur has damped down my upgraditis and is currently the only full-sized can I own. That speaks volumes right there. Good luck in your search, my friend!


----------



## Karlsushi (Aug 3, 2021)

There is only one ZMF dealer here in the UK and therefore only one opportunity to demo, but he does have a set of Auteurs which are available for home demo.

He asks for the full retail price as a deposit (currently £1600 GBP), so it's not without risk, but I have already made contact and plan to take up the demo offer in a few weeks when funds allow.

Looking forward to hear what they can do with Elise.

Aiming to demo Sen HD800s and the Grados and now also the Audio Technicas and possibly the Focals too following the recommendations, so thanks for that.

Someone mentioned before about these all being fairly 'neutral' headphones. I am fine with that. I figure the Elise imparts it's own tube warmth and can also be tuned using different tubes, so a neutral pair of cans seems a fine way to go.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## LoryWiv

@Karlsushi I look forward to your comparative listening impressions!


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## Karlsushi

Happy to share them @LoryWiv 

Currently I own LCD2s and some Focal Elegias for closed-back duties, so they will be my starting point for comparison.  I do love the LCD2s and it is only really reading-up that suggests the amp might not be perfect for them.  The Elegias are perhaps a little dry for my tastes, but I just use them with a Chord Mojo as my 'lying in bed falling to sleep' rig, so not the main set-up and they are still very impressive on detail, great build quality and super comfy.

The only other relevant cans I owned were some Audio Technica ATH W5000's a little while back (the raffinato wooden ones).  I found them to be really nice and open for closed-backs with nice airy treble, but the bass was completely none-existent.  As mentioned, I tend to prefer a fairly neutral/accurate response so I'm by no means a bass-head, but when I say none-existent, I mean, I couldn't even make out double bass notes properly when listening to jazz, let alone electronic bass. A slightly odd headphone, to the point that I wondered if there was something wrong with mine.  Needless to say, they didn't last long and I'm a little reluctant to try ATs now for that reason, but I always try to keep an open mind.

I spent a long time looking for the right headphone amp for the LCD2s, largely because I forked out for new LCD2 drivers after one of them died.  But I have started to wonder if I was looking at it the wrong way around i.e. I now have a lovely headamp in the form of the Elise and should probably be looking at getting the right headphones for the amp.  I think my problem with the LCD2s is that I discovered tubes at the wrong time for them and didn't really want solid state, which I suppose would have been easier in terms of driving them.

Hybrid probably would have been the best compromise, but I fell in love with the Elise and also wanted an amp with preamp outputs so it could fit into my speaker rig which reduced options a bit.

Anyway, I'm very interested to hear if any of the headphones on the shortlist are worth the money as an upgrade for the LCD2s.  It will need to take something pretty special as I am really enjoying the LCD2s with Elise, but we all know how it goes...


----------



## connieflyer

I have been using the Sennheiser 800 as my main phones for several years.  Just tried the 800s but found it not as enjoyable as the 800.  Also the Oppo PM 1 also is excellent with  my AE amp. I have used  the Senn 700 650 and hifiman 400i that were good but not in the same league as the 800.


----------



## Aquileolus

Hi Folks, really new to the tube world, I'm sure this has been asked for a ton of times, but can anyone please give me some suggestion between Euforia and Elise? Currently Euforia is $650 more than the Elise MK2, is Euforia is an straight upgrade from Elise? And on what circumstance I should choose Elise over Euforia?
I mainly use Hifiman Arya and ZMF Verite Closed, and mainly listen to female vocal / pops, I prefer euphonic relaxing sound, so I choose Feliks over ZMF pendant, but between Euforia and Elise I'm a little struggling because I heard that Euforia is brighter than Elise but also a big step up from Elise, so if budget allowed, which one I should go with?
Thanks guys in advance, any suggestion will be helpfule


----------



## ThanatosVI

Aquileolus said:


> Hi Folks, really new to the tube world, I'm sure this has been asked for a ton of times, but can anyone please give me some suggestion between Euforia and Elise? Currently Euforia is $650 more than the Elise MK2, is Euforia is an straight upgrade from Elise? And on what circumstance I should choose Elise over Euforia?
> I mainly use Hifiman Arya and ZMF Verite Closed, and mainly listen to female vocal / pops, I prefer euphonic relaxing sound, so I choose Feliks over ZMF pendant, but between Euforia and Elise I'm a little struggling because I heard that Euforia is brighter than Elise but also a big step up from Elise, so if budget allowed, which one I should go with?
> Thanks guys in advance, any suggestion will be helpfule


The Euforia has better detail retrieval and is the most neutral/solid state like of the lineup.

The Elise has a warmer tubier sound at the cost of some detail.

Guess this is a matter of preference. 
To "analyze" music the Euforia is the better fit though.
Ultimately it's a matter of preference.


----------



## Renexx (Aug 7, 2021)

I have the Euphoria AE which might be a little step up from the stock Euphoria. I listen with zmf Aeolus and VO and it's never bright just neutral and "wet" sound  with stock Tubes. With some tube rolling you can make it warm and romantic sounding like the Elise might be with stock Tubes. Even with warm tubes  it's never goey sounding even with warmish ZMF headphones.
Using the VC you will definitely appreciate the added detail retrieval and dynamics of the Euphoria because you can really pick up the changes easily if you switch tubes. Buying some nice NOS tubes will hurt your bank account much more than buying the amp itself because you will always be curious how that other tubes might sound like and the nice 6sn7 and 6080/5998 tubes  really costs alot now.
I guess the Arya might be too power hungry for an OTL amp.


----------



## Aquileolus

Renexx said:


> I have the Euphoria AE which might be a little step up from the stock Euphoria. I listen with zmf Aeolus and VO and it's never bright just neutral and "wet" sound  with stock Tubes. With some tube rolling you can make it warm and romantic sounding like the Elise might be with stock Tubes. Even with warm tubes  it's never goey sounding even with warmish ZMF headphones.
> Using the VC you will definitely appreciate the added detail retrieval and dynamics of the Euphoria because you can really pick up the changes easily if you switch tubes. Buying some nice NOS tubes will hurt your bank account much more than buying the amp itself because you will always be curious how that other tubes might sound like and the nice 6sn7 and 6080/5998 tubes  really costs alot now.
> I guess the Arya might be too power hungry for an OTL amp.


Thank you for the detailed reply! May I know which DAC you are using with them? And since I already have a nice class A SS amp which is good for detail retrieval, should I just go with Elise with stock tubes? Won't have much budget for tube rolling in near future...


----------



## Renexx (Aug 8, 2021)

I had an Rme adi2 DAC FS which got replaced by a chord qutest that threw a better soundstage.

I must say I barely used the stock Tubes on my Euphoria so they are not even burned in.  They won't give you much more than the RME amp will give you. I really enjoy rolling my tube collection.

Maybe the Elise with stock Tubes is a little more relaxed and warm listening if that is what you are looking for.

I would not keep my euphoria only with stock Tubes. The amp deserves some nice tubes😉


----------



## LoryWiv

Renexx said:


> I had an Rme adi2 DAC FS which got replaced by a chord qutest that threw a better soundstage.
> 
> I must say I never used the stock Tubes on my Euphoria so they are not even burned in.  They won't give you much more than the RME amp will give you. I really enjoy rolling my tube collection.
> 
> ...


Melz 1578 drivers?


----------



## Renexx

Melz with 1578 stamp from 1982. They pair really well with Gec 6080s when listening with my ZMF Aeolus. Nice huge soundstage🎧


----------



## john2000

LoryWiv said:


> Something old, something new. Makes my music sound so true.


What drivers tubes are those?


----------



## LoryWiv

john2000 said:


> What drivers tubes are those?


New production Genalex Gold Lion KT88. I usually prefer vintage but these are quite good!


----------



## Renexx

LoryWiv said:


> New production Genalex Gold Lion KT88. I usually prefer vintage but these are quite good



Can you use those kt88 without power adapter ? I'm always scared to use tubes not recommended by the manufacturer 😅🔥💥


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> New production Genalex Gold Lion KT88. I usually prefer vintage but these are quite good!


+ 1 to that good sir. These new production tubes are compatible with a wide variety of driver tubes. 

@Renexx 

You ll need adapters to use these tubes with the Elise.


----------



## shafat777

@LoryWiv 

Can you suggest any other type of KT88 besides the GL? I have been itching to mess around with the power tubes of my Elise and was wondering if the new issue Mullard KT88 is any good. I know that the vintage GEC KT88s are the best and also very expensive but do you know of anything other brand that wont break the bank? 

Thanks


----------



## ThanatosVI

shafat777 said:


> @LoryWiv
> 
> Can you suggest any other type of KT88 besides the GL? I have been itching to mess around with the power tubes of my Elise and was wondering if the new issue Mullard KT88 is any good. I know that the vintage GEC KT88s are the best and also very expensive but do you know of anything other brand that wont break the bank?
> 
> Thanks


TAD KT88-STR  are very good and don't break the bank.
KR KT88 are probably among the best but certainly slaughter your wallet.
E.A.T KT88 are also said to be great (maybe even the best) but pretty much unobtainium. They also doubled the price during covid, so I recommend to not Support those practices.

EH KT88 are clearer and less sweet in the mids as well as sharper up top but if you're after that maybe worth a shot.

The Mullard is said to be close to the Gold Lion but with less sweetness in the mids


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 14, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> TAD KT88-STR  are very good and don't break the bank.
> KR KT88 are probably among the best but certainly slaughter your wallet.
> E.A.T KT88 are also said to be great (maybe even the best) but pretty much unobtainium. They also doubled the price during covid, so I recommend to not Support those practices.
> 
> ...


Thanks @ThanatosVI, excellent list. I'd also add that our amps (and Deyan's adapters) are also compatible with 6L6 family powers. I have  a set of Sylvania 6L6 / VT-115A that are quite good, not crazy expensive. They lean bright. I also have  a pair of GEC KT-66 (again compatible with same adapters) that are warmer and close to the KT-88 for 1/2 the price. Since I have KT-88 I am thinking of listing the GEC KT-66 for sale, PM me if interested.

Summary:

For @Aquileolus: I think GL KT-88 powers / Ken-Rad VT-231 driver are a perfect next step to explore tube rolling, distinguishing sonic character from SS
For @shafat777: @ThanatosVI's list is excellent, or perhaps consider 6L6/VT-155A or KT-66 as next steps if you prefer NOS / vintage as many do.
For @Renexx: Please note KT-88 do require adapters but not external power source. Just plug tube into adapter and adapter into amp.


----------



## Aquileolus

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks @ThanatosVI, excellent list. I'd also add that our amps (and Deyan's adapters) are also compatible with 6L6 family powers. I have  a set of Sylvania 6L6 / VT-115A that are quite good, not crazy expensive. They lean bright. I also have  a pair of GEC KT-66 (again compatible with same adapters) that are warmer and close to the KT-88 for 1/2 the price. Since I have KT-88 I am thinking of listing the GEC KT-66 for sale, PM me if interested.
> 
> Summary:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the guidance! 
My GL KT-88 and Ken-rad VT-231 have arrived and I already rolled VT-231 on, now I can easily pick it out when blind test with Soloist 
Still waiting for my adapters from Deyan being shipped then I can try KT-88.
Curious which will impact the sound the most, power tubes or drivers?


----------



## LoryWiv

Aquileolus said:


> Thanks for the guidance!
> My GL KT-88 and Ken-rad VT-231 have arrived and I already rolled VT-231 on, now I can easily pick it out when blind test with Soloist
> Still waiting for my adapters from Deyan being shipped then I can try KT-88.
> Curious which will impact the sound the most, power tubes or drivers?


As a general rule drivers are said to impact sound more then powers BUT with Elise I find either can make a major impact.


----------



## BigTonkotsu

I have seen on this thread that someone has driven the LCD-2 with the Feliks Audio Elise with great results. I was just wondering if the lower impedance LCD-X would play well with the Elise? Does anyone have any experience with this pairing?


----------



## LoryWiv

john2000 said:


> What drivers tubes are those?


Apologies, @john2000. I initially answered re. powers. The drivers are Ken-Rad VT-231.


----------



## connieflyer

Lorywiv,this combo of tubes is turning out to be one of the best I have used.   Sure has plenty of power. and musically it rings all the bells, thanks my friend.  Going to try one more pairing, I have a pair of Sylvania 1947 vt231's and if they have enough bass they should be spectacular.


----------



## connieflyer

After running the KR 231's for a few days, pop in the Sylvania vt231's and I now remember why I use to switch between the two.  The KR are bass masters, very solid and musical, upper frequencies are weaker.  The Sylvania's are just the opposite, bass is good, adequate but the mid's and uppers are superb.  Alison Krauss    with the Sylvania bring her right here.  So much so I asked her to stay for breakfast! The KR's on tracks like Deux  Ex Human Revolution, Hung Hua Brothel extended are much stronger and show off the bass strength.


----------



## shafat777

connieflyer said:


> After running the KR 231's for a few days, pop in the Sylvania vt231's and I now remember why I use to switch between the two.  The KR are bass masters, very solid and musical, upper frequencies are weaker.  The Sylvania's are just the opposite, bass is good, adequate but the mid's and uppers are superb.  Alison Krauss    with the Sylvania bring her right here.  So much so I asked her to stay for breakfast! The KR's on tracks like Deux  Ex Human Revolution, Hung Hua Brothel extended are much stronger and show off the bass strength.


I enjoyed the Sylvy Vt 231 a lot with my 6080 power tubes. Those tubes are lot warmer than the KTG88 GL, but just like you and @LoryWiv , i think kr vt231 + KT88 GL is the best, affordable combo for the Elise.


----------



## shafat777

I think once my new Pontus 2 dac + Hermes DDC is fully burnt in and I get used to the sound of my current Elise tube setup (KR Vt231 + KT88 GL) my next roll would be a set of KR VT-107a. I think I m pretty happy with GL KT88 as powers so i ll keep those on but i ll probably play with some affordable drivers.


----------



## LoryWiv

Nice, @shafat777 you are on  great path! Quick question: I am considering the new Focal Clear Mg (55 ohm impedance / 104 dB sensitivity).  Thinking Clear MG may be  aa nice compliment to my ZMF Auteur.

Wondering how Elise sounds with your low impedance cans (Empyrean, MDR-ZIR) versus the higher impedance ZMF and Senn's it is more naturally suited for with Elise's output impedance in the 50 ohm range.

If anyone has heard Elise and Clear MG together impressions would be much appreciated, especially comparisons with Auteur or other ZMF's as that is my current daily driver.

Thanks for any insights you can share on this topic, and enjoy the music!


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 25, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> After running the KR 231's for a few days, pop in the Sylvania vt231's and I now remember why I use to switch between the two.  The KR are bass masters, very solid and musical, upper frequencies are weaker.  The Sylvania's are just the opposite, bass is good, adequate but the mid's and uppers are superb.  Alison Krauss    with the Sylvania bring her right here.  So much so I asked her to stay for breakfast! The KR's on tracks like Deux  Ex Human Revolution, Hung Hua Brothel extended are much stronger and show off the bass strength.


@connieflyer my friend, you are spot on! The KR VT-231 are excellent all-arounder's with the cleanest bass, well-represented but never excessive, but can't quite match the treble extension and top end sparkle of Sylvania KT-231. I enjoy both with GL KT-88 or GEC KT-88 very much. The KR and Sylvania VT-107Aa's exhibit similar sonic character, work well as drivers in Elise / Euforia with adapters, and can generally be purchased more affordably. Nice to have so many good choices!


----------



## shafat777 (Aug 26, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> Nice, @shafat777 you are on  great path! Quick question: I am considering the new Focal Clear Mg (55 ohm impedance / 104 dB sensitivity).  Thinking Clear MG may be  aa nice compliment to my ZMF Auteur.
> 
> Wondering how Elise sounds with your low impedance cans (Empyrean, MDR-ZIR) versus the higher impedance ZMF and Senn's it is more naturally suited for with Elise's output impedance in the 50 ohm range.
> 
> ...


Hey Lory

Thanks for the suggestion. Although I have never heard of the MG with my Elise, I did use my Focal Clear OG with it for a brief period of time before selling it. Focal clear sounded magnificent with the elise, but theres a catch...it needs warm sounding tubes. At that time, i was using a pair of bendix graphite plate 6080 and a set of PSVANE CV 181 mk2 as drivers, both of which i consider warm sounding tubes and the clear really paired well with it. From what i understand, Clear OG and the clear MG are both bright headphones with excellent punchy/ slammy bass, so the best thing to do is to pair it with warm, gooey tubes (not necessarily bassy tubes like KR Vt231).

As for my other headphones, I am not a fan of my Empy with the Elise as it sounds a little veiled to my ears (YMMV). The Z1R on the other hand, sounds excellent. I dont run it usually with my Elise since its tuned to be bass heavy with aforementioned tubes. the Z1r has bass for days, with or without tubes LOL. So it you pair it with Sylvy vt 231, they sound glorious. Unfortunately, i am using my KR vt231 at the moment so the Z1R is being played with my GSX mini.

Since you already own the Auteur, I would strongly suggest giving the Z1R a shot first over the Clear MG mainly because it resembles something different than the Auteur. the Clear MG and Auteur (especially with certain ZMF pads) can sound similar but the Clear MG wont get close to the soundstage and imaging of the Auteur, whereas the Z1R being a closed back and bass heavy, can give you a different flavor, IMO.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can help any other way.


----------



## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Hey doc,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. Although I have never heard of the MG with my Elise, I did use my Focal Clear OG with it for a brief period of time before selling it. Focal clear sounded magnificent with the elise, but theres a catch...it needs warm sounding tubes. At that time, i was using a pair of bendix graphite plate 6080 and a set of PSVANE CV 181 mk2 as drivers, both of which i consider warm sounding tubes and the clear really paired well with it. From what i understand, Clear OG and the clear MG are both bright headphones with excellent punchy/ slammy bass, so the best thing to do is to pair it with warm, gooey tubes (not necessarily bassy tubes like KR Vt231).
> 
> ...


@shafat777 yes, very helpful reply, thank you. I have been concerned the Clear Mg wouldn't be very different from  Auteur, but that said I don't enjou bass heavy cans so Z1R probably not my cup of tea. Decisions. decisions!


----------



## joseG86

Did anyone try the Elise MK2 with D8000 Pro?


----------



## shafat777

Hi is anyone using xlr to rca cables to connect their balanced dac to their Elise/ euforia? Is it safe? Xlr is 4volts where as rca is 2, so is that safe to our beloved otl amp. I have a pontus 2 dac that I use with my Elise using rca cables and was wondering if using xlr to rca cable would give any benefit. 

Thank you.


----------



## Karlsushi (Sep 5, 2021)

@shafat777 my understanding is that if your XLR to RCA cable is wired-up correctly, then you are essentially just converting the XLR signal to a single-ended connection and therefore there is no benefit in doing this over a straight RCA to RCA connection.

It shouldn't do any damage if your cable is wired correctly, but there is little point in doing it as it won't be creating a balanced connection.


----------



## shafat777

Karlsushi said:


> @shafat777 my understanding is that if your XLR to RCA cable is wired-up correctly, then you are essentially just converting the XLR signal to a single-ended connection and therefore there is no benefit in doing this over a straight RCA to RCA connection.
> 
> It shouldn't do any damage if your cable is wired correctly, but there is little point in doing it as it won't be creating a balanced connection.


Thank you for that explanation. I really appreciate it. It makes things clear now.


----------



## joseG86

joseG86 said:


> Did anyone try the Elise MK2 with D8000 Pro?


It is perfection!


----------



## LoryWiv

it's been a little quiet in here, so thought I'd share my latest revelation regarding this versatile amp: Ken-Rad VT-107A driving GEC 6V6G powers (with adapters of course) into Clear MG --> best base I've ever heard from Elise. Nice overall tonality as well, and drawing 1.8A heater current total all stays cool!


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> it's been a little quiet in here, so thought I'd share my latest revelation regarding this versatile amp: Ken-Rad VT-107A driving GEC 6V6G powers (with adapters of course) into Clear MG --> best base I've ever heard from Elise. Nice overall tonality as well, and drawing 1.8A heater current total all stays cool!


Hows the overall tonality of those ken rad drivers?


----------



## LoryWiv

Top of class bass, mids and especially highs just a tad behind my Sylvanias. Wish I could combine the virtues of both into one super tube!


----------



## connieflyer (Sep 13, 2021)

Have you tried Running the 6V6 for power and the Sylvania VT231 for drivers ?  Just wondered what the Sylvania would bring to the table that the quad of 6v6 dont


----------



## joseG86

Have anyone had any problem with popping/cracking in the right channel or left channel without anything connected to the amp just headphones? I've got this problem with Elise, right channel has random popping/cracking noise if I switch valves it has the same problem in the right channel

No dac, no preamp, nothing connected at all


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Have you tried Running the 6V6 for power and the Sylvania VT231 for drivers ?  Just wondered what the Sylvania would bring to the table that the quad of 6v6 dont


In general I find VT-107A and VT-231 drivers from the same manufacturer to have similar sonic character. At various times I have thought the VT-231 have a slight edge but when the VT-107A is in it doesn't seem to far off if at all.


----------



## Karlsushi

joseG86 said:


> Have anyone had any problem with popping/cracking in the right channel or left channel without anything connected to the amp just headphones? I've got this problem with Elise, right channel has random popping/cracking noise if I switch valves it has the same problem in the right channel
> 
> No dac, no preamp, nothing connected at all


I had a similar problem to this with a tube buffer in my system a little while back, which I eventually discovered was interference from a wi-fi booster (one of those TP Link boosters that uses the electrical mains cables to transmit the wi-fi signal).

Could be that or other interference.

But being in only one channel, I fear it could be a fault with Elise.

Is it not still under warranty?


----------



## joseG86

Karlsushi said:


> I had a similar problem to this with a tube buffer in my system a little while back, which I eventually discovered was interference from a wi-fi booster (one of those TP Link boosters that uses the electrical mains cables to transmit the wi-fi signal).
> 
> Could be that or other interference.
> 
> ...


Hi!

I actually only had connected the Elise to the pure sinewave UPS for testing and noise still was there.... I did search for a possible answer and found out about the power valves, saw a blue glowing inside the right power valve.... Moved to the left side and it went away, I read that the blue glow is normal but.... The noise is gone so far but we'll see

Amp is from 2019, 1 year left of warranty, I already contacted Lukasz from Feliks, let's see if it's the power valve and I don't have to send the amp.... I haven't enjoyed music this much with an amp before and I had many of them, really surprised with this company.

Thanks Karl


----------



## connieflyer

I like the looks of the 6V6G tubes,have not tried those or any of the 6v6-VT107s as of yet.  I thought my tube rolling was over, but I am getting curious about these.  Have been using the Sylvania VT231's from the '40s with a pair of KT88's and finding this a good combo also.  May have to look into the 6V6's and see if I have any adapters that will work with them.  Thanks for sharing


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> I like the looks of the 6V6G tubes,have not tried those or any of the 6v6-VT107s as of yet.  I thought my tube rolling was over, but I am getting curious about these.  Have been using the Sylvania VT231's from the '40s with a pair of KT88's and finding this a good combo also.  May have to look into the 6V6's and see if I have any adapters that will work with them.  Thanks for sharing


6V6 / 6L6 / KT88 adapters I have are interchangeable.


----------



## connieflyer

Great, I have four of those for the kt88.


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> 6V6 / 6L6 / KT88 adapters I have are interchangeable.


Thats what i like about deyan's adapters, they are compatible with so many different tubes for the Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

Would the 6V6G tube be considered "warm"?


----------



## Renexx

LoryWiv said:


> In general I find VT-107A and VT-231 drivers from the same manufacturer to have similar sonic character. At various times I have thought the VT-231 have a slight edge but when the VT-107A is in it doesn't seem to far off if at all.



 I hope that info will keep me from buying new tubes since my 6sn7 collection is quite complete already. Peace of mind 💡


----------



## jonathan c

Renexx said:


> I hope that info will keep me from buying new tubes since my 6sn7 collection is quite complete already. Peace of mind 💡


Psst…..excuse me, sir. I don’t know a genteel way to break the news:  the urge to buy tubes, NOS or current production, can strike and consume you at any time…..the best that you can do is to retain _piece _of mind…🤪…


----------



## Renexx (Sep 14, 2021)

I spend too much money on NOS tubes 😅 
6sn7 and 6as7g are especially pricey I guess. Didn't stray from the tube advise of the manufacturer yet.

 Just added some holy grails to my collection. First listen was a little bit disappointing but I'm excited to give it a listen again today 🎧 


I think you guys know these tubes 💡 and always wondered how they will sound. I couldn't resist.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Would the 6V6G tube be considered "warm"?


I don't think one can generalize, it depends on tube manufacturer, Just as different 6AS7G's can sound different, so it is with 6V6.


----------



## OctavianH (Sep 14, 2021)

During my Elise years I tried 3-4 types of 6V6G. The warmer type and the ones I considered the best were these manufactured as far as I know by GEC:





As @LoryWiv said these 6V6 sound quite different so on the other extreme, towards a more neutral and airy sound were these Sylvania 6V6GT/G:





Somewhere in the middle were these:





I used them only in the driver position with KT66 or KT88 (and of course with the needed adapters for all).


----------



## connieflyer

Well, got the bug again,(thanks Lorywiv!) picked up a pair of Zenith  (Sylvania) 6v6gt and a pair of Zenith (Sylvania) 6v6g.   Found plenty of adapters, from my KT66 88 and 7581's so don't need these at least.  Thanks Lorywiv for the info on these.


----------



## Karlsushi

LoryWiv said:


> it's been a little quiet in here, so thought I'd share my latest revelation regarding this versatile amp: Ken-Rad VT-107A driving GEC 6V6G powers (with adapters of course) into Clear MG --> best base I've ever heard from Elise. Nice overall tonality as well, and drawing 1.8A heater current total all stays cool!


So I see you took the plunge on the Clear mg in the end @LoryWiv 

I took some HD800s' on home demo a couple of weeks a go and they went back to the shop pretty quick.  Very impressive headphones, but not my cup of tea.  I did however note the plentiful headroom with Elise compared with my LCD2s, presumably on account of the high impedance rating (300 Ohm) suiting the OTL design, so Auteurs are next on the list for a demo.

Any thoughts on the Clear mg compared to your Auteurs?


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 15, 2021)

Karlsushi said:


> So I see you took the plunge on the Clear mg in the end @LoryWiv
> 
> I took some HD800s' on home demo a couple of weeks a go and they went back to the shop pretty quick.  Very impressive headphones, but not my cup of tea.  I did however note the plentiful headroom with Elise compared with my LCD2s, presumably on account of the high impedance rating (300 Ohm) suiting the OTL design, so Auteurs are next on the list for a demo.
> 
> Any thoughts on the Clear mg compared to your Auteurs?


Despite, the Clear MG's 55 ohm impedance they don't seem constrained on Elise. In fact, they are a nice compliment to Auteur. Where they may be "better" ((used here as a subjective term from my listening experience) is imaging, microdetail retrieval, a bit more bass presence and bass quality, However, the soundstage is a bit narrower (although still quite pleasing and natural sounding with good depth and height). The Clear MG is also more of a true open can, meaning I can hear more ambient noise wearing them and it's really only suitable for a quiet listening environment. The win goes to Auteur for overall tonal presentation and euphony. Surprisingly though, while I continue to regard Auteur as a wonderful headphone, I've left it cozy on it's stand for the last week or so as Clear MG brings its own form of musical magic as well.

Here is a *photo* of the pair of them peacefully coexisting.


----------



## joseG86

Did anyone compare the stock PSVane's 6SN7 VS PSVane CV181-TII? Is it worth the investment?


----------



## shafat777

joseG86 said:


> Did anyone compare the stock PSVane's 6SN7 VS PSVane CV181-TII? Is it worth the investment?


I did own a pair of CV181-TII when i first had my Elise. These tubes need lots of burn in to sound good. These have slightly elevated mids and upper mids than stock tubes. However, they have a lot of bass, mostly subbass, but its not very controlled and sounded a lillte too boomy for me. Back then i was using RCA 6as7g power tubes and those are also known to be bassy power tubes so that could also be the culprit. Anyway, i dont think i kept them long enough to hear their true potential and moved on to Sylvania 6sn7gt and later sylvania vt231 tubes and those sound really good with the Elise and warm power tubes


----------



## Deceneu808

joseG86 said:


> Did anyone compare the stock PSVane's 6SN7 VS PSVane CV181-TII? Is it worth the investment?


I remember buying these for when I first got my Darkvoice. Not much of a difference to my ears between the two but as a general thought, compared to any other NOS tube,  they sounded kind of sterile to my ears, nothing stood out in a certain way. Way too close to a solid state sound to justify their price. They've been sitting in a drawer ever since.


----------



## Renexx (Sep 16, 2021)

Maybe a Melz  or Kenrad vt-231 is a good addition to your sylvanias.💡 
Skip Chinese tubes I doubt they are worth that much  money.


----------



## joseG86

I'm really surprised after having 3 valve amps and 5 SS amps but then the one that made me listen to my music with such realism and 3D feeling was the Elise with stock tubes

Thanks for the info really appreciate it, I might be getting Sylvanias, Tungsol etc and try different flavours, the CV181 was 145€ for the pair I might give a try and sell it after fully burning them if they're not that much better than stock

José


----------



## Renexx

I can advise you to try Tungsol 6as7g. Very warm tube with a super nice tone but most important a very holographic and 3d sounding stage. Very immersive tube.

But that might start the tube game for you.


----------



## joseG86

Renexx said:


> I can advise you to try Tungsol 6as7g. Very warm tube with a super nice tone but most important a very holographic and 3d sounding stage. Very immersive tube.
> 
> But that might start the tube game for you.


I had the Valhalla 2 and tried lots of tubes I love the tube game 

Thanks for that suggestion ^^


----------



## joseG86

So I had this problem with irritating noise, happening only sometimes, I thought it was interference caused by radiowaves, emi/rfi etc...

It has to be the power tube, I checked both carefully and moved and noise changed as I changed the valve.... They look like this, you can imagine which one is the one with the problem.....

I bought new ones, same model/maker very cheap on eBay


----------



## ThanatosVI

Any news on the 300B amp that's in development?


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> Any news on the 300B amp that's in development?


End of the year. Fully balanced. 8W. Focused on low impedance/low sensitivity, hard to drive planars via a switch from low-mid-high impedance. 1 XLR input and 2 RCA. Price significantly more than the Euforia (guessing 4-5K ?). That's all I got


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> End of the year. Fully balanced. 8W. Focused on low impedance/low sensitivity, hard to drive planars via a switch from low-mid-high impedance. 1 XLR input and 2 RCA. Price significantly more than the Euforia (guessing 4-5K ?). That's all I got


Thank you. 
Nothing known about size dimensions yet, right?

4-5k would still be low average for 300B amps, if they place it there it will surely be a killer in terms of price/performance


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> Thank you.
> Nothing known about size dimensions yet, right?
> 
> 4-5k would still be low average for 300B amps, if they place it there it will surely be a killer in terms of price/performance


I guess they already have a solid base with the Arioso speaker amp. Also 8W. I think they are modifying it for headphones but generally should end up the same, size wise I mean. Need to stock on 300B tubes... BRB


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> I guess they already have a solid base with the Arioso speaker amp. Also 8W. I think they are modifying it for headphones but generally should end up the same, size wise I mean. Need to stock on 300B tubes... BRB


I actually think they do a lot more than that.
The new 300B won't use rectifier tubes and has balanced in/outputs.
Probably more of a new design from the ground.


----------



## gazzington

I currently own the echo2 and I'm thinking of getting an elise mk2.  What headphones pair well with it?


----------



## Deceneu808

gazzington said:


> I currently own the echo2 and I'm thinking of getting an elise mk2.  What headphones pair well with it?


It pairs wonderfully with everything I've got except the LCD-X. My fav is Aeolus


----------



## LoryWiv

Deceneu808 said:


> It pairs wonderfully with everything I've got except the LCD-X. My fav is Aeolus


ZMF Auteur and surprisingly (despite it's 55 ohm impedance) really enjoying it with Focal Clear MG


----------



## LoryWiv

The versatility of Elise with various tubes never ceases to amaze me:


----------



## Khitzi

Hey. I'm just about ready to place my order on the new 2021 Feliks Elise. Thanks for everyone's comments so far - it's been a good read. I'm looking to get a new DAC to go along my Elise. Anyone have any recommendations? I have my eye on the Denafrips Ares II, but unsure how this would pair with the Elise and my Sennheiser HD 800S headphones.


----------



## Melting735 (Oct 13, 2021)

Khitzi said:


> Hey. I'm just about ready to place my order on the new 2021 Feliks Elise. Thanks for everyone's comments so far - it's been a good read. I'm looking to get a new DAC to go along my Elise. Anyone have any recommendations? I have my eye on the Denafrips Ares II, but unsure how this would pair with the Elise and my Sennheiser HD 800S headphones.


Aresii Elise and hd800s will sound fantasticly. One of my favorite combo. If you can, replace stock tubes with better ones. I don't really like Elise stock tubes.


----------



## Deceneu808

The Winged C stock power tubes are more than fine but those Psvanes got to go quick


----------



## joseG86

What valves would you recommend for Elise? I've got CV181-MK2 as driver and Winged C / RCA 6080 as power


----------



## Deceneu808 (Oct 14, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> What valves would you recommend for Elise? I've got CV181-MK2 as driver and Winged C / RCA 6080 as power


Driver tubes : Ken-Rad VT-231 6SN7GT, Melz 1578 years 57-63, Foton 6N8S years 51-59, RCA or CBS 5692, RCA VT-231 6SN7GT, Sylvania VT-231 6SN7GT, Sylvania 6SN7WGTA
Power tubes : G.E.C./mwt/Marconi 6080 or 6AS7G, Tung-Sol/Chatham 5998 or 6AS7G or 6080


----------



## joseG86

Deceneu808 said:


> Driver tubes : Ken-Rad VT-231 6SN7GT, Melz 1578 years 57-63, Foton 6N8S years 51-59, RCA or CBS 5692, RCA VT-231 6SN7GT, Sylvania VT-231 6SN7GT, Sylvania 6SN7WGTA
> Power tubes : G.E.C./mwt/Marconi 6080 or 6AS7G, Tung-Sol/Chatham 5998 or 6AS7G or 6080


That was quick, thank you very much


----------



## Deceneu808

joseG86 said:


> That was quick, thank you very much


Winged C is more than fine. I suggest you get rid of those Psvanes and grab anything basically


----------



## Khitzi (Oct 14, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> Winged C is more than fine. I suggest you get rid of those Psvanes and grab anything basically


Are they really that bad?

Thanks for all the responses, btw - going to pick up a Denafrips Ares II to go with my new Elise 2021 and HD 800S. Can't wait to try out this setup!


----------



## Deceneu808

Khitzi said:


> Are they really that bad?
> 
> Thanks for all the responses, btw - going to pick up a Denafrips Ares II to go with my new Elise 2021 and HD 800S. Can't wait to try this setup out!


They are not THAT bad but compared to any NOS tube they sound kind of sterile and boring. At least that's my subjective impression of them but I guess you can live with them a few months until you learn your amplifier and get curious about rolling


----------



## Khitzi

Deceneu808 said:


> They are not THAT bad but compared to any NOS tube they sound kind of sterile and boring. At least that's my subjective impression of them but I guess you can live with them a few months until you learn your amplifier and get curious about rolling


Thanks. I always get curious about rolling tubes - not sure I could hold out a few months.


----------



## joseG86 (Oct 14, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> Winged C is more than fine. I suggest you get rid of those Psvanes and grab anything basically


They are superior to stock Psvanes for sure, they need 50 hours at least then voices, specialy female voices no longer sound so tubey and chord instruments are really texturized with decent amount of weight

Edit: CV181-MK2 also extracts lots of detail from songs... You will hear errors and things you didn't before if the song is poorly recorded/mastered

Of course I will try more, they are expensive and hard to find some of them, let's see haha


----------



## joseG86

I've ordered a couple of matched Foton's 6N8S from the 60s I think for as low as 20€ shipping included

I've also compared Winged C -VS- RCA 6080WC and I much prefer the RCA's for its bigger soundstage, warmth and more natural sounding listening

I should not seek extreme detail and analytic sound from the CV181-TII as I already get that from my headphones but try and find the ultimate natural sounding experience, now let's keep playing like I did in the past with Valhalla 2


----------



## Deceneu808

joseG86 said:


> I've ordered a couple of matched Foton's 6N8S from the 60s I think for as low as 20€ shipping included
> 
> I've also compared Winged C -VS- RCA 6080WC and I much prefer the RCA's for its bigger soundstage, warmth and more natural sounding listening
> 
> I should not seek extreme detail and analytic sound from the CV181-TII as I already get that from my headphones but try and find the ultimate natural sounding experience, now let's keep playing like I did in the past with Valhalla 2


I own a pair of Fotons from 81 and I'm not that impressed with them. I've got the real deal coming in next week. A pair from 52. Hyped to test them


----------



## joseG86

Deceneu808 said:


> I own a pair of Fotons from 81 and I'm not that impressed with them. I've got the real deal coming in next week. A pair from 52. Hyped to test them


Where did you get those?


----------



## Deceneu808

joseG86 said:


> Where did you get those?


PM'd


----------



## shafat777

Psvane Premium Grade KT88 power + 1952 Sylvania 3 Hole Bad Boy 6Sn7gt.


----------



## joseG86 (Oct 16, 2021)

*Update: RCA 6080WC -power- + Psvane CV181-TII -driver-*
Extreme detail, big soundstage depth/width, instruments sound very real, lacks bass, kind of analytical/boring dry sound but worth having if you like classical, jazz, live music: very lifelike, kind of fatiguing after 1-2h // The accuracy of instruments with this setup is incredibly amazing, piano feels so real // Edit: When your brain gets used to this sound it is no longer boring but fantastic experience, the CV181-TII is really something

*RCA 6080WC -power- + Psvane Elise Stock -driver-*
Very decent detail, big soundstage depth/width, that tubey sound is back, bass is decent, fun/enjoyable due to the warm tube sound, no fatigue at all


----------



## LifeAspect

Ordered an Elise today. Should arrive next week. Hopefully pairs well with my headphones ^^"


----------



## OctavianH

LifeAspect said:


> Ordered an Elise today. Should arrive next week. Hopefully pairs well with my headphones ^^"


With Verite is a very good match, and ZMF in general. I heard good things about Stellia and Utopia should not be very different. So you'll be fine.


----------



## LoryWiv

LifeAspect said:


> Ordered an Elise today. Should arrive next week. Hopefully pairs well with my headphones ^^"


Concur with my friend @OctavianH. I run Elise with both ZMF Auteur and Focal Clear MG and enjoy the heck out of both pairings.


----------



## Khitzi

Does anyone know what the output impedance is of the latest 2021 revision of the Elise?


----------



## joseG86

Khitzi said:


> Does anyone know what the output impedance is of the latest 2021 revision of the Elise?



The Elise 2021 PDF says:* Optimal headphones impedance: 32 - 600 ohm*


----------



## Khitzi

joseG86 said:


> The Elise 2021 PDF says:* Optimal headphones impedance: 32 - 600 ohm*


That’s the recommended impedance of the headphones, though, right? I want to know the output impedance of the amplifier. They list the Euforia as having ~20 Ohms output impedance, but can’t seem to find this info anywhere for the Elise.


----------



## LifeAspect

It arrived 😁


----------



## joseG86

LifeAspect said:


> It arrived 😁


How are you liking it?

I wasn't really impressed (compared to Kinki THR-1) but I am now with different tubes


----------



## LifeAspect

joseG86 said:


> How are you liking it?
> 
> I wasn't really impressed (compared to Kinki THR-1) but I am now with different tubes


I think it's a step up from my adi-2 headphone output for the verite. This is my first tube amp in a good while and I am still burning in the tubes. Do like the extra power on the verite


----------



## joseG86

I've been trying lately the Foton 6SN7 and I really like their sound, specially with the Winged C's as power tubes. Very analog sounding and very very cheap, better than default Elise driver tubes


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Any Elise owners think the Euforia might be worth the "upgrade" or "sidegrade"?


----------



## joseG86

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Any Elise owners think the Euforia might be worth the "upgrade" or "sidegrade"?


I am pretty sure that the Elise with CV181-MK2 sounds like the Euforia for way less money.


----------



## Simple Man

Not an Elise owner but the last weeks I've examened the Elise, Euphoria and Euforia Anni. 
Elise is nice, good vallue but soundwise not even close to the Euforia. Anni is even better. 
More dynamic, Wider, more detail and a kind of smooth silence over the music. (?)
Don't get me wrong, I love the Elise as well


----------



## Simple Man

joseG86 said:


> I am pretty sure that the Elise with CV181-MK2 sounds like the Euforia for way less money.


I don't think so..
Even the Euforia Gold and anni with both the same tubes sound very different.


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Damn, might have to look into Anni. Thanks for your thoughts 👍🙏


----------



## joseG86

Simple Man said:


> Not an Elise owner but the last weeks I've examened the Elise, Euphoria and Euforia Anni.
> Elise is nice, good vallue but soundwise not even close to the Euforia. Anni is even better.
> More dynamic, Wider, more detail and a kind of smooth silence over the music. (?)
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Elise as well


Damn, I trust you 100% I said that I was pretty sure because the Elise with CV181 is a big step up in sound 

Wish I could try the AE!


----------



## connieflyer

joseG86 said:


> Damn, I trust you 100% I said that I was pretty sure because the Elise with CV181 is a big step up in sound
> 
> Wish I could try the AE!


I have had both amps as well as the Euphoria and SE versions and all were an upgrade. The difference in tubes helped the Elise but it is a warmer amp, not quite as detailed.  A good sound to be sure, but the Euphoria was better.  Now the SE is better also, but not as much as the difference from the Elise. With other tubes the Euphoria SE is very good indeed. Whether is is worth the money to you, only you can decide that. Try to get a loaner from a dealer or find someone that will demo one for you. Or just spend the money and see if you like or not.  Being friends with Colin, he was in on the ground floor and co developed the Elise, as well as the first to have a Euphoria, and my correspondence with Lukasz, convinced me each time to upgrade.  The amps give a good return on the re-sale market and move quickly. But with all things audio, your own ears and inclination to music is what the answer to overall worth of a product.


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry, the Colin I spoke of is Hynos1 the person that started this thread for those that have not seen all the pages.


----------



## joseG86

connieflyer said:


> I have had both amps as well as the Euphoria and SE versions and all were an upgrade. The difference in tubes helped the Elise but it is a warmer amp, not quite as detailed.  A good sound to be sure, but the Euphoria was better.  Now the SE is better also, but not as much as the difference from the Elise. With other tubes the Euphoria SE is very good indeed. Whether is is worth the money to you, only you can decide that. Try to get a loaner from a dealer or find someone that will demo one for you. Or just spend the money and see if you like or not.  Being friends with Colin, he was in on the ground floor and co developed the Elise, as well as the first to have a Euphoria, and my correspondence with Lukasz, convinced me each time to upgrade.  The amps give a good return on the re-sale market and move quickly. But with all things audio, your own ears and inclination to music is what the answer to overall worth of a product.


Beautiful, heaven of amps no doubt. Love your setup

I'd love to demo the AE but for now I found perfect balance, I use the Kinki THR-1 as the warmer/fun/relaxing/almost tube sounding amp and the Elise like a SS amp with RCA 6080 and CV181 valves haha, I love how you can improve resolution/detail, soundstage and a very precise and controlled sub bass/bass with less than 200€ in valves.

By the way, your left CV181 it's a little out


----------



## LoryWiv

For those who are interested in trying different tube types with adapters (I know it's not for everyone and may void warranty), *here* is a combination I am enjoying immensely!


----------



## vulup (Nov 21, 2021)

I had the Elise with CV181-MK2 and GEC 6080 valves, which added nice sparkle in the upper region and made it more linear across the board. The stock tubes were too warm for my liking. Paired really well with the ZMF Verite Closed. It still had a modicum of warmth, but not to where it masked any detail.


----------



## LoryWiv

Ken-Rad 6F6G drivers / Sylvania VT-115A powers (with adapters) = Exquisite:


----------



## connieflyer

Looks good Lorywiv, how did the sound change from say, the stock tubes?  And which adapters did you use? Always liked Ken-Rad tubes, and Sylvania as well.  I have used the VT115A-6l6G and like it as well.


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 29, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> Looks good Lorywiv, how did the sound change from say, the stock tubes?  And which adapters did you use? Always liked Ken-Rad tubes, and Sylvania as well.  I have used the VT115A-6l6G and like it as well.


Hi @connieflyer always good too see your posts. I would say the Sylvanias excel
with treble and mids, good air / instrument separation but are a bit light in the bass which the Ken-Rads provide. The overall sound is more holographic and euphonic then stock tubes. IMHO you can't go wrong with adapters from @Deyan.


----------



## rishabhgkp

Hi, am looking to tube roll on the Elise for the first time, to pair with ZMF VC, seeking easily available tubes and affordable (better if i don't need adapters), something under 300USD. Any help?


----------



## Deceneu808

rishabhgkp said:


> Hi, am looking to tube roll on the Elise for the first time, to pair with ZMF VC, seeking easily available tubes and affordable (better if i don't need adapters), something under 300USD. Any help?


Don't know any tube vendors in Asia but you could grab a pair of 50s Foton 6N8S off ebay for under 100$ and keep the stock power tubes. Winged C Svetlanas are great. If you want a step up for power tubes search for 6AS7G models from Chatham/Tung-Sol, GEC or 6080 models from GEC, Chatham/Tung-Sol, Mullard.


----------



## rishabhgkp

Deceneu808 said:


> Don't know any tube vendors in Asia but you could grab a pair of 50s Foton 6N8S off ebay for under 100$ and keep the stock power tubes. Winged C Svetlanas are great. If you want a step up for power tubes search for 6AS7G models from Chatham/Tung-Sol, GEC or 6080 models from GEC, Chatham/Tung-Sol, Mullard.


What is the preferred 6080 tube? Mullard or TungSol? I have these locally available. Thanks


----------



## mordy

rishabhgkp said:


> What is the preferred 6080 tube? Mullard or TungSol? I have these locally available. Thanks


When I was using the Foton 1950-55 6N8S with the ladder style (ribbed) anode I got the best results with GEC 6080 (or Bendix 6080WB). 
THe Mullard 6080 sounds better than the TS 6080 but I would rather look for the GEC 6080. -I don't that neither the Mullard nor the TS is going to sound better in the Elise than the stock Svetlana tubes. However, the GEC 6080 is excellent.


----------



## Deceneu808

rishabhgkp said:


> What is the preferred 6080 tube? Mullard or TungSol? I have these locally available. Thanks


Get the Tung Sol if you can and forget about the Mullard


----------



## mordy

Deceneu808 said:


> Get the Tung Sol if you can and forget about the Mullard


Are you speaking about the TS 6AS7 or 6080?


----------



## Deceneu808

mordy said:


> Are you speaking about the TS 6AS7 or 6080?


Both are excellent choices.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jan 30, 2022)

Thread has been rather quiet, so thought I'd post a tube set I am really enjoying today (Ken Rad 6F6G & Sylvania 6BX7GT):


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Thread has been rather quiet, so thought I'd post a tube set I am really enjoying today (Ken Rad 6F6G & Sylvania 6BX7GT):


Are the Sylvania 6BX7GT parallel or x-type plates? The parallel plates ae supposed to sound the best.


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> Thread has been rather quiet, so thought I'd post a tube set I am really enjoying today (Ken Rad 6F6G & Sylvania 6BX7GT):


I am really interested in knowing about those ken rad 6f6g drivers. How are these different from KR vt231?


----------



## LoryWiv

They are really in the 6V6 family, require adapters as shown, and have 0.7A heater current. Sonically, they bring a bit more "heft" / note thickness but are still articulate. pair well with bright powers (Sylvania, EG).


----------



## connieflyer

I'll have to bring those out again, as I remember they are quite nice.  Been quite awhile since I had the Elise, and I had forgotten this combo, nicely done LoryWiv


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> They are really in the 6V6 family, require adapters as shown, and have 0.7A heater current. Sonically, they bring a bit more "heft" / note thickness but are still articulate. pair well with bright powers (Sylvania, EG).


Will deyans adapters work with these tubes? If so, then i might order a set to go with my PSvane kt 88 power tubes since these have great mid and upper mid treble extension.


----------



## shafat777 (Feb 7, 2022)

A little question for peeps who knows either the Elise or the Euforia.

I have been running in a minor issue for the last few weeks. Anytime i use a socket saver on the two driver sockets on my Elise, i am hearing a faint but audible chirp or buzz coming out of the ONLY the LEFT channel. So far i have tried two completely different set of socket saver (1 pair from deyan, 1 pair of tubemonger) and they both have the exact same issue. Heres the funny thing, if i plug the tubes in directly into the amp, its dead silent. as soon as i use either of the socket saver, the chirp and buff comes back. I have tried with atleast 3 sets of tubes and they all exhibit the same issue. Chirp with socket savers, silent with no socket saver. My power tubes are also on socket saver/ adapters and they work fine. No issues. I ever tried the socket savers from the driver tubes on the power tubes and it works just fine. Not sure what else to do beside keep using the amp sockets for my tubes.

Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## mordy

shafat777 said:


> A little question for peeps who knows either the Elise or the Euforia.
> 
> I have been running in a minor issue for the last few weeks. Anytime i use a socket saver on the two driver sockets on my Elise, i am hearing a faint but audible chirp or buzz coming out of the ONLY the LEFT channel. So far i have tried two completely different set of socket saver (1 pair from deyan, 1 pair of tubemonger) and they both have the exact same issue. Heres the funny thing, if i plug the tubes in directly into the amp, its dead silent. as soon as i use either of the socket saver, the chirp and buff comes back. I have tried with atleast 3 sets of tubes and they all exhibit the same issue. Chirp with socket savers, silent with no socket saver. My power tubes are also on socket saver/ adapters and they work fine. No issues. I ever tried the socket savers from the driver tubes on the power tubes and it works just fine. Not sure what else to do beside keep using the amp sockets for my tubes.
> 
> ...


These noises can be very irritating! Have you tried to move the amp to a different location? Maybe something like a portable phone or some kind of electronics interfere when you use the driver adapters.


----------



## shafat777

mordy said:


> These noises can be very irritating! Have you tried to move the amp to a different location? Maybe something like a portable phone or some kind of electronics interfere when you use the driver adapters.


That is very interesting and i might just give it a shot. I ll try and see what i can do.


----------



## LoryWiv

@shafat777: Replied to you in the Euforia thread my friend.


----------



## shafat777

Following in your footsteps @LoryWiv


----------



## OctavianH

This is very close to what I liked the most in Elise. These 6F6G are not sounding similar with 6V6 family?


----------



## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Following in your footsteps @LoryWiv


I am honored @shafat777 , same drivers as you tonight, sounding AMAZING with Brimar 6L6G powers:



Attach files


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> This is very close to what I liked the most in Elise. These 6F6G are not sounding similar with 6V6 family?


Hi @OctavianH. Yes, they are in 6V6 family but w/0.7A heater current. The K-R 6F6G seem to have a bit more heft / note weight in the lower mids and bass whilst still sounding clean in upper mids and treble. I have some Mullard 6F6GT's which are even more robust sounding, although lose a wee bit of top end. Fun tubes to try in combinations.


----------



## Tsunzo

New Feliks Elise owner here, coming from a Feliks Echo this was a big upgrade from it. After reading posts here, I also pulled the trigger on a pair of KenRad VT231 that will be coming in a few day. Now I am looking for some good power tubes. How does the GL KT88 compare to GEC or Mullard 6080?


----------



## shafat777

@LoryWiv 

The ken rad 6f6gs are warm tubes indeed. However, these sound too dark in my chain. The mid bass bloom often bleeds in the mids and vocals. You got any other suggestions? What about vt115a or vt107a tubes?


----------



## LoryWiv

Before you give up on the 6F6, perhaps try them in the power slot with a bright driver like Sylvania VT231


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> Before you give up on the 6F6, perhaps try them in the power slot with a bright driver like Sylvania VT231


Will do !! That sounds like a gnarly idea but im up for it. In the meantime, just ordered a set of Syl vt107a NOS. Gonna experiment with your suggestion in the mean time.


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## shafat777

Syl vt107a tubes just came in. Havent tried them out yet. Originally bought them to power my elise but now im thinking if these can be used as drive tubes w/ adapters? 

@LoryWiv you got any ideas?


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## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Syl vt107a tubes just came in. Havent tried them out yet. Originally bought them to power my elise but now im thinking if these can be used as drive tubes w/ adapters?
> 
> @LoryWiv you got any ideas?


Yes my friend, absolutely suitable as drivers (w/adapters). That is in fact how I enjoy them best.


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## shafat777

Update 

Been running the sylvania VT107a NOS tubes as drivers in my Elise. These are powered by a set of GL KT88/PSVANE KT88. With either of the power tubes, the sound is excellent. Bass is plentiful (a little bloomy with my VC). The top end is clear with just enough extension. The mids/vocals are where i find these tubes to be lacking. To be fair, i am coming from a set of Sylvania VT231 which are known for their sweet mids and top end. I was wondering if either RCA 6v6gt or any of the VT115 tubes would give me a little more sweetness in the mids....

Any suggestions would be helpful.


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## barbz127

I'm wondering if it's possible to reduce the gain of the Elise by rolling one set or both sets of the stock tubes for another type, can anyone share any wisdom here?

Just trying to get a bit more range on the volume knob.

Thankyou


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## Deceneu808

Changing tubes won't reduce gain. Reduce volume at the DAC if you have a variable output or lower the source volume PC or whatever you are using


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## herdingunicorns

shafat777 said:


> Update
> 
> Been running the sylvania VT107a NOS tubes as drivers in my Elise. These are powered by a set of GL KT88/PSVANE KT88. With either of the power tubes, the sound is excellent. Bass is plentiful (a little bloomy with my VC). The top end is clear with just enough extension. The mids/vocals are where i find these tubes to be lacking. To be fair, i am coming from a set of Sylvania VT231 which are known for their sweet mids and top end. I was wondering if either RCA 6v6gt or any of the VT115 tubes would give me a little more sweetness in the mids....
> 
> Any suggestions would be helpful.


Would be hard to compete with the mid/vocals there


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## LoryWiv

Elise is so versatile! Here are Sylvania 6K6GT drivers / Mullard 6F6GT powers in Feliks Elise. Current draw is 1/3 of stock tubes (2.2A total for all 4 tubes!), amp runs cool & quiet w/excellent sound.


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## HungryPengu

I was wondering if the echo mkII would be a better sub 1000 dollar tube amp to pair with the Sennheiser HD600s and focal clear in 2022. I was debating between that or a used Elise mkI near me for 500 dollars or a bottle head crack with speedball is an option but I don't love the idea of DIY.


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## mordy

HungryPengu said:


> I was wondering if the echo mkII would be a better sub 1000 dollar tube amp to pair with the Sennheiser HD600s and focal clear in 2022. I was debating between that or a used Elise mkI near me for 500 dollars or a bottle head crack with speedball is an option but I don't love the idea of DIY.


I haven't heard the Echo or Crack but the used Elise seems to make the most sense. The Elise is a step above the Echo. And if you are not happy with the Elise, you could sell it with little to lose.


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## Flisker

HungryPengu said:


> I was wondering if the echo mkII would be a better sub 1000 dollar tube amp to pair with the Sennheiser HD600s and focal clear in 2022. I was debating between that or a used Elise mkI near me for 500 dollars or a bottle head crack with speedball is an option but I don't love the idea of DIY.


I had Elise MK II for a over year and it's amazing with HD650/600. Elise has very tight bass which probably won't be the case on something like Crack, but that doens't mean that it's "better". I can imagine someone preferring one over the other.

For example WA2 with upgraded tubes is incredible amp but it will never do bass as tight and controlled as Elise/Euphoria, does it mean it's worse than Elise? No, it's just different.

Not sure about the MK I Elise tho, I saw those selling very cheap, so I guess there was some problem or something.


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## barontan2418 (Jul 18, 2022)

Flisker said:


> I had Elise MK II for a over year and it's amazing with HD650/600. Elise has very tight bass which probably won't be the case on something like Crack, but that doens't mean that it's "better". I can imagine someone preferring one over the other.
> 
> For example WA2 with upgraded tubes is incredible amp but it will never do bass as tight and controlled as Elise/Euphoria, does it mean it's worse than Elise? No, it's just different.
> 
> Not sure about the MK I Elise tho, I saw those selling very cheap, so I guess there was some problem or something.


No problem with MK 1. I have both Elise and Euforia MK 1. Elise with GEC KT88 and EL11's running T1, 600 and 650 is still a great tube amp. Euforia is better with my HD800 as one would expect.


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## Flisker

barontan2418 said:


> No problem with MK 1. I have both Elise and Euforia MK 1. Elise with GEC KT88 and EL11's running T1, 600 and 650 is still a great tube amp. Euforia is better with my HD800 as one would expect.


Then that's a steal, I remember seeing some for 300 something dollars. Yea Euphoria is quite a step up.


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## ThanatosVI

Flisker said:


> Not sure about the MK I Elise tho, I saw those selling very cheap, so I guess there was some problem or something.


Nah they used to cost a lot less back then, that's why the resale value is often very cheap


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## HungryPengu

Thanks for the responses I went ahead with the Elise mk1, though it wasn't as cheap as 300 dollars I'd say I got a decent deal on it considering it is so versatile and responsive to tube rolling. The euphoria is a bit too far out of my price bracket hah. Maybe one day for a used one. I don't think I'll go anything beyond this for a long while if ever.


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## mordy

HungryPengu said:


> Thanks for the responses I went ahead with the Elise mk1, though it wasn't as cheap as 300 dollars I'd say I got a decent deal on it considering it is so versatile and responsive to tube rolling. The euphoria is a bit too far out of my price bracket hah. Maybe one day for a used one. I don't think I'll go anything beyond this for a long while if ever.


I owned both the Elise and (still have) the Euforia . The Elise is a little leaner sounding but the two early versions I have experience with don’t differ that much.
Don’t think that the Euforia is far better!
You got a good and very versatile amp. The main thing is to make sure that it does not overheat - good ventilation and perhaps the use of a USB fan if needed.


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## LoryWiv

barontan2418 said:


> No problem with MK 1. I have both Elise and Euforia MK 1. Elise with GEC KT88 and EL11's running T1, 600 and 650 is still a great tube amp. Euforia is better with my HD800 as one would expect.


Good info. thanks. Is your Elise also MK I though?


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## barontan2418 (Jul 18, 2022)

LoryWiv said:


> Good info. thanks. Is your Elise also MK I though?


It is indeed LW. And the EL11's are Valvo.👋


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## LoryWiv

Sweet! EL11's are wonderful tubes. I am selling my Elise MKII (see classified) as I was able to buy a used Euforia AE from a fellow-head-fi'er, but have LOVED my time with Elise MKII.


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## mordy

HungryPengu said:


> LoryWiv said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet! EL11's are wonderful tubes. I am selling my Elise MKII (see classified) as I was able to buy a used Euforia AE from a fellow-head-fi'er, but have LOVED my time with Elise MKII.
> ...


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## LoryWiv (Jul 18, 2022)

Hi @mordy. I am still new to AE. Early impression is that AE is a little less "warm" but more refined, balanced and technically proficient. With Elise I found I looked for tube sets to bring out treble extension and to emphasize clarity and detail, whereas these attributes appear intrinsic with AE across different tube sets. At first I felt AE lacked some of Elise's incredible organic euphony, and while I still think it is less "tubey" then Elise and a bit closer to solid state sound, AE retains a high level of musicality and engagement. I am also really impressed with AE's layering, instrument placement and imaging, which greatly rewards attentive listening. Soundstage width is comparable but height and depth are better on AE, providing a more "holographic" sound field to use that over-hyped audiophile term. It is NOT a night and day difference, and there is clearly a "family" resemblance with both amps being terrific performers. I loved Elise, owned it for 3 years which is easily a record for me, and am anticipating an equally long and happy relationship with AE!


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## mordy (Jul 19, 2022)

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @mordy. I am still new to AE. Early impression is that AE is a little less "warm" but more refined, balanced and technically proficient. With Elise I found I looked for tube sets to bring out treble extension and to emphasize clarity and detail, whereas these attributes appear intrinsic with AE across different tube sets. At first I felt AE lacked some of Elise's incredible organic euphony, and while I still think it is less "tubey" then Elise and a bit closer to solid state sound, AE retains a high level of musicality and engagement. I am also really impressed with AE's layering, instrument placement and imaging, which greatly rewards attentive listening. Soundstage width is comparable but height and depth are better on AE, providing a more "holographic" sound field to use that over-hyped audiophile term. It is NOT a night and day difference, and there is clearly a "family" resemblance with both amps being terrific performers. I loved Elise, owned it for 3 years which is easily a record for me, and am anticipating an equally long and happy relationship with AE!


Happy to hear that! My expectation is that by time you are going to find tube combinations that give you exactly the sound you like.
Every amp is a little (or lot) different, and the same tubes you used before may sound different in the new amp.

Part of the fun with tube amps is the audio journey to find that elusive perfect combination. Then you tell yourself that this is the end game, until...


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## HungryPengu

I have received the amp and it works(?), loving the sound of my HD600s on it and the focal clears are even more fun on it. However, there is an occasional popping/crackling in the right channel. As for the left one there is nothing except for a very slight hum when there is nothing playing which I assume is to be expected. As for the right channel issue it could be due to my topping dx7 pro(which I've put in dac mode)/phone being near it though? I'm not sure how the thing is wired but the right side of the amp is very close to. Or it could be the tubes? If anyone has some feedback that would be great. It's not too noticeable when actually listening to music but it's there. I'm relatively hopeful that it's not anything to do with the amp itself since it is built like a tank... hah....

As for replacing/tube rolling I'll save that for another day hah. Just got my steam deck recently as well :3.


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## Magol79

HungryPengu said:


> I have received the amp and it works(?), loving the sound of my HD600s on it and the focal clears are even more fun on it. However, there is an occasional popping/crackling in the right channel. As for the left one there is nothing except for a very slight hum when there is nothing playing which I assume is to be expected. As for the right channel issue it could be due to my topping dx7 pro(which I've put in dac mode)/phone being near it though? I'm not sure how the thing is wired but the right side of the amp is very close to. Or it could be the tubes? If anyone has some feedback that would be great. It's not too noticeable when actually listening to music but it's there. I'm relatively hopeful that it's not anything to do with the amp itself since it is built like a tank... hah....
> 
> As for replacing/tube rolling I'll save that for another day hah. Just got my steam deck recently as well :3.


Switch sides on the tubes, then you'll know if it is the tubes.


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## mordy

HungryPengu said:


> I have received the amp and it works(?), loving the sound of my HD600s on it and the focal clears are even more fun on it. However, there is an occasional popping/crackling in the right channel. As for the left one there is nothing except for a very slight hum when there is nothing playing which I assume is to be expected. As for the right channel issue it could be due to my topping dx7 pro(which I've put in dac mode)/phone being near it though? I'm not sure how the thing is wired but the right side of the amp is very close to. Or it could be the tubes? If anyone has some feedback that would be great. It's not too noticeable when actually listening to music but it's there. I'm relatively hopeful that it's not anything to do with the amp itself since it is built like a tank... hah....
> 
> As for replacing/tube rolling I'll save that for another day hah. Just got my steam deck recently as well :3.


The popping/crackling.sound is usually attributable to a tube.
There is a concern that if it is very loud you could damage a driver in your headphones. Until it is fixed you may want to listen with a cheap pair of headphones or even earbuds.
But the first part of troubleshooting is to shut off the amp, wait a couple of minutes for the capacitors to discharge, and then gently pull the tubes out and clean the pins.
Personally I have found the best way is to gently scrape the pins with a very small pen knife blade. Look all around at the pins that they are nice and shiny and no dirt or oxidation on them.
Then reset the tubes into the sockets. If the noise still persists you can switch the positions of the tubes right to left and vice versa.
In many instances this takes care of the problems.


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## HungryPengu

mordy said:


> The popping/crackling.sound is usually attributable to a tube.
> There is a concern that if it is very loud you could damage a driver in your headphones. Until it is fixed you may want to listen with a cheap pair of headphones or even earbuds.
> But the first part of troubleshooting is to shut off the amp, wait a couple of minutes for the capacitors to discharge, and then gently pull the tubes out and clean the pins.
> Personally I have found the best way is to gently scrape the pins with a very small pen knife blade. Look all around at the pins that they are nice and shiny and no dirt or oxidation on them.
> ...


Oh boy swapped both tubes and the popping and crackling swapped but it also got louder and much worse/frequent. At least it's not the amp(?) itself thankfully.


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## mordy

HungryPengu said:


> Oh boy swapped both tubes and the popping and crackling swapped but it also got louder and much worse/frequent. At least it's not the amp(?) itself thankfully.


Cleaning the pins takes minutes...If you don't have a little pen knife, anything will do - scissors, utility knife etc and it does not have to be sharp either.


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## Deleeh

Hello,
do you have only one set of tubes or several?

If you have more than one, first try replacing the tubes on the 6SN7 sockets with other 6SN7s.
If it is still there, leave them in and do the same on the 6AS7G socket.

This way you can determine if it is coming from the 6SN7 socket or the 6AS7G.

Then you could see what else could be done.

What you should also try when you mention the Dac is to take another one to test it if you have one.

And maybe one more tip.
Turn the amplifier on or off when no headphones are plugged in and turn down the volume pot.

The slight hum on the left side seems to be normal.

Apropo, are the tubes the same that you have plugged in?
Are they from the same manufacturer?
And another thing, the rear part is a 6AS7G socket, so only these tubes go in, not the front.
The 6SN7s go in the front.
I don't want to say you're stupid or anything, but maybe you didn't know.
And the tubes have been swapped, which could also be the case.

Otherwise, if it bangs like you describe, the tubes could be at the end of their life.
Photos might help if you can take some to see if there is anything wrong with them.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


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## HungryPengu

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> do you have only one set of tubes or several?
> 
> If you have more than one, first try replacing the tubes on the 6SN7 sockets with other 6SN7s.
> ...


 the manual for the elise isn't exactly detailed, the tubes come packaged with a number assigned to the slot and you put the tubes in based on the number according to the manual. As I did not receive the amp with the original packaging I had to just take a guess. I figured out which tube goes where because they looked like the stock tubes the amp came with, so I went to look at website for pictures and managed to put the right tubes in the right place... also the manual showed the relative size of the tubes so I also used that as a guide.

The most alarming thing is... checking the pictures from the previous owner listing is the 2 smaller tubes which are labeled UK-6SN7 on them were in the two rear sockets... I do not know if they just put them in wrong for the picture or if they actually ran it like this... for how many ever years they had it.

As far as I can tell the amp is working properly I just probably need to change out the tubes... I'm currently working on swapping them around and seeing which one is causing the crackling. 1 factor noticed is some of the crackling may be due to me typing while using it? i bumped my table and heard the crackling get worse momentarily. but it's still only in one side.

I'm also working on cleaning the pins to see if that helps... I have a tiny snap blade knife i use for cutting paper crafts and stuff.


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## mordy

The smaller 6SN7 tubes go in the front and the bigger 6H13C tubes go in the back


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## darktooth8

Hi! I just received a feliks Elise from a fellow head-fier. I am having some trouble with it. I have it hooked up but the sound is very quiet and very distorted/staticky. I have the volume cranked up all the way but it's still very quiet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155091619061

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304583890236?hash=item46ea9d553c:g:FhsAAOSw1EFi6ei5
These are the tubes I got. This is my first tube amp, and any help would be appreciated. I will say that one of the power tube sockets feels slightly more wiggly than the other, but all tubes are glowing.


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## darktooth8

darktooth8 said:


> Hi! I just received a feliks Elise from a fellow head-fier. I am having some trouble with it. I have it hooked up but the sound is very quiet and very distorted/staticky. I have the volume cranked up all the way but it's still very quiet.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/155091619061
> 
> ...


Ok, The issue is actually quite weird if anyone can help me out. I've figured out how to get it working, but the solution is strange.
There is virtually no volume when I first turn the amp on. But, if I unplug BOTH power tubes while the amp is on and then replace them, it sounds great.
If i turn it off, and turn it back on, there is no volume again until the power tubes are removed and replaced.


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## mordy

darktooth8 said:


> Ok, The issue is actually quite weird if anyone can help me out. I've figured out how to get it working, but the solution is strange.
> There is virtually no volume when I first turn the amp on. But, if I unplug BOTH power tubes while the amp is on and then replace them, it sounds great.
> If i turn it off, and turn it back on, there is no volume again until the power tubes are removed and replaced.


Perhaps the power tubes do not make good contact. Clean the pins by gently scraping with a small blade and look that there is no dirt and oxidation.
It is not advisable to switch tubes when the amp is on - could damage headphones or speakers.
I this doesn’t help you could email Feliks audio for help and advice.


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## LoryWiv

Will PM you as in general it's best not to power on amp. w/o tubes in place, nor remove while powered on.


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## Imaginamatt

6 months ago, I met Élise; and even if since Caroline left me; I'm still so happy with these 4 little lights


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