# Flux Lab Acoustics FA-10, FA-10 Pro, FA-12, FCN-10 & FA-12s Amplifiers - Summit-Fi for the People?: Reviews, Impressions & Discussion



## teknorob23 (Sep 17, 2020)

_++Disclaimer: I have purchased FA-12 amplifier at the full retail price, with my own money. I received no inducements from and have no affiliation to Flux Lab Acoustics other then being an excited new customer with an interest in hearing and finding out more about their products and brand+++_

I'm surprised theres not been a thread set up for these exciting and intriguing new amplifiers from Flux Lab Acoustics, relatively new brand at least i suspect to those like me who live somewhere else in the world other than Ukraine and its neighbouring countries.

Stand out power ratings, high end specifications combined with a seriously too-good-to-be-true price tag and a brace of unequivocally positive reviews, piqued my interest enough for me to fire off a barrage of quickly and compelling answered questions via FA's facebook page, which has resulted in my buying blind the FA-12 the balanced sibling to the FA 10 16 watt power house amplifier.

Guessing by the fact they appear to have nearly sold out their first production run, there are quite few expectant buyers out there, who maybe in the same boat, with a void to fill while they await delivery, so i thought i'd get the ball rolling and set up a thread, where we can share the pleasure/pain of anticipation followed by our impressions and comparisons.

In the meantime i here are links to the product pages/ reviews and i look forward to chatting with you all about this exciting brand, their amplifiers and hopefully even the music you like to listen to through them! 

*FA-10 "16 watt headphone amplifier" / $749 + Shipping*
https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa10/

*Features:*

output power is 16 Watt on 32 Ohm load, absolute control for most hard to drive headphones on market
output stage is based using Toshiba bipolar transistors with a supply voltage of 80 volts
3 GAIN modes for excellent flexibility
Class A
64-step relay volume attenuator
powerful toroidal transformer
*Specification*

32Ohm: 16W RMS per channel
300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel
600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel
Inputs single-ended RCA, balanced XLR
Outputs 4-pin balanced female XLR headphone out, TRS headphone out
Frequency Response : 5Hz-200kHz, -3dB
THD 0.008%
Input Impedance 10KOhm
Gain 14dB, 21dB, 25.3dB
Power Consumption 55W
Voltage 115V at 60Hz, 230V at 50Hz
Weight 11.2lbs (5.1kg) without packaging










_Photographs Courtesy of Flux Lab Acoustics_

*FA-12 "True balanced headphone amplifier" / $749 + Shipping*
https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa-12/

*Features*

•    Fully balanced topology
Class A
JFET inputs
MOSFET outputs
64-step relay volume control attenuator
Premium components: Nichicon, TAKMAN, NIPPON, FUJITSU-TAKAMISAWA etc.
Powerful toroidal transformer
*Specification (Not published yet)*










_Photographs Courtesy of Flux Lab __Acoustics_


*FA-10 PRO/ $749 + Shipping*

Manufacturers Description*

FLUX FA-10 PRO is a powerful compact headphone amplifier designed for studio and critical listening applications. It has been designed and engineered to provide clean, quiet power and excellent sound with low noise and distortion with most hard to drive headphones on the market. The FA-10 PRO is the refined answer for those who want to get the most powerful and outstanding value headphones amplifier on the market for an extremely good value

*Class A precision and speed*
The FA-10 PRO amplifier circuits are employing Bipolar input stage and Toshiba Bipolar transistors at class-A mode with a supply voltage of 80 volts of output stage all that features are providing clean transmission for signal up to 16 Watt on 32 Ohm load of output power

*Flexibility*
Three GAIN modes give you unique flexibility to use the amplifier with a wide range of headphones without loss of sound performance quality

*Fine attenuation*
High transparency at any volume level and absence of even minimal unbalance of the channels, allows you to get more accurately set the volume level thanks to 64-step relay volume control attenuator

*Clean power*
The main foundation of the amplifier is a custom made, low-noise powerful toroidal power transformer with a low-noise power supply

*Perfect fit*
Classic design unit with the milled CNC face panel easily become a decent element of your desktop head-fi system

*Remote control *
For greater flexibility and convenience, the amplifier is optionally equipped with a remote control

*Full Specifications*
https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa-10-pro/












*FA-12S Class-A Head-Amplifier / Pre-Amp /$499 + Shipping

Manufacturers Description*
FLUX FA-12S is the unique design headphone amplifier called to deliver great flexibility of your head-fi system with the engaging character of the sound which will not leave indifferent even the most sophisticated listeners

*Features*

Class A
JFET inputs
MOSFET outputs
64-step relay volume control attenuator
Premium components: Nichicon, TAKMAN, NIPPON, FUJITSU-TAKAMISAWA etc.
Powerful toroidal transformer
PRE OUT
*Face panel colour option is available under the request










*Reviews*

Headfonia FA-10 Review:
https://www.headfonia.com/flux-lab-acoustics-fa-10-review/

Sound New FCN-10 ($1349 + Shipping) Review (included here as this streamer DAC Amp has the identical amplifier stage to the FA10)
https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/he...n-10-review-a-muscle-car-for-your-headphones/



Zee FA-10 Review


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## m-i-c-k-e-y (Apr 28, 2020)

And their TOTL DAC/Preamp/Streamer/Headamp named Atlas

Link: https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/atlas/

Headphonia has a review and gave it as best desktop DAC/Amp for 2019 : https://www.headfonia.com/flux-lab-acoustics-atlas-review/


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## teknorob23

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> And their TOTL DAC/Preamp/Streamer/Headamp named Atlas
> 
> Link: https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/atlas/
> 
> Headphonia has a review and gave it as best desktop DAC/Amp for 2019 : https://www.headfonia.com/flux-lab-acoustics-atlas-review/



A thing of beauty, but sadly way beyond my budgetary means. Have you heard it?


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## m-i-c-k-e-y

Nope not yet.. Interested. 
But it's BIG.


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## TonyRoma

Any idea if these are shipped from the EU?


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## teknorob23

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Nope not yet.. Interested.
> But it's BIG.



It does have rather large feet, probably too much for me to get away with in my designated corner of the living room. I had seen this review when it was posted last year but at the time i was happily wedded to my SoTM, Hugo TT2, FA Euforia Focal Stellia set up. It was only due to a forced downgrade or rationalisation of my system when my business got clobbered by the advertising effects of Brexit in the UK, and that was in a time before COVID too. Anyway long story short, i kept a relatively small proportion of the proceeds from the sale of my kit, to re-build a small core system with the hope i could capture some proportion the performance. To this effect i run a Chord Hugo2, from Primare Streamer/ Roon ROC running intel NUC server into Sennheiser HD820. I love the Chord DAC's but they can be a little dry, so i've been looking for an affordable alternative to my Euforia Anniversary Edition tube amp. I listen mainly to electronica, techno, IDM, but i like to hear it presented, with speed, accuracy and as much detail as it is there, but also in as organic/ analogue a way possible, if that makes any sense . 

I had a max budget of £1k, so i was looking at 2nd hand and new options, but nothing i'd heard passed through enough of the H2's performance, so i'd pretty much given up, that is until i saw the recent review of the FA10 on Headfonia. It sounded like it could be the just the ticket, so i rattled off a facebook message to Flux Labs, received a response almost immediately from Vitaliy. From there i discussed my preferences at length and at highly unsociable times of the day, from which he recommended the FA12, the balanced apparently slightly warmer sounding sibling of the FA12 as potentially a good match for my tastes and partnering kit.  

The highly focused specification and Vitaliy's obvious passion/ knowledge combined with this scarily low price, found me pressing pay on paypal, and now i'm waiting for the FA12's hopefully imminent arrival, filling the time as only headfiers know how, i.e with lots or speculation and re-reading of anything i can find, that and pestering Vitaliy with lots of questions about the brand the company, what lock down is like in the Ukraine, how does he entertain his children, etc, etc... so please excuse my over enthusiasm, that the dyslexic streams of consciousness!


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## teknorob23

TonyRoma said:


> Any idea if these are shipped from the EU?



At the moment, they are shipping direct from Ukraine only. I am in the UK and ordered my FA12 on Monday so i will report back on how things go


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## kvik (May 1, 2020)

Not directly related to FA-10/12, but 5-6 years ago the Flux Lab product portfolio consisted of primarily tube amps. They were however all discontinued with the arrival of Solid One DAC/HPA, which I suppose is the predecessor of Atlas.


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## teknorob23

kvik said:


> Not directly related to FA-10/12, but 5-6 years ago the Flux Lab product portfolio onsisted of primarily tube amps. They were however all discontinued with the arrival of Solid One DAC/HPA, which I suppose is the predecessor of Atlas.



did you hear any of them?


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## kvik (May 2, 2020)

No, though the amps were quite attractive, they were not exactly cheap, the top models were priced at 3-4000 USD, and in my case 25% import taxes would have be added. Also, as far as I recall the site was in ukrainian back then, and far from as easy to navigate or understand as the current english site/shop version. I think I just wanted to add a bit of historical background to illustrate that the company has actually been around for some time.


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## Kevin Lee

FA-10 would on my shopping list


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## cfranchi

I was ready to pull the trigg for the Cayin iHA-6 for my Hifiman HE6se, however after investigations, I really think that I will go for FA-10. Really nice to see some ´disruptive´ products at honest price.


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## saadi703

I was looking for a powerful amp for my Hifiman Susvara (which was in transit to me from Hifiman) but I didn’t want to use any speaker amp as those things are noisier than headphone amps. The Hifiman EF1000 was too expensive for me and other options were pricer as well so I thought about buying Cayin iHA-6 but luckily I came to know about the flux FA-10 from soundnews review. This appeared to me the answer that I was looking for. I had comprehensive discussion with them on Facebook. It was good to know that they made this amp for Susvara and tested this amp with Susvara. So managed to order the FA-10 on last Sunday and now waiting for my FA-10. Hifiman Susvara arrived yesterday and now waiting for my FA-10 anxiously. The timing can not be any better.


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## Audio Addict (May 7, 2020)

I also recently came across this company and like the others have been discussing their products and my headphone collection on Facebook Messenger.  I do own a couple of Kennerton Audio Headphones along with the original HE-6 and they recommended the FA-10 or the FCN-10.  I did reach out to Kennerton as they had displayed with Flux at the Munich show.  Kennerton was very positive about the engineering capabilities of Flux Lab Acoustics.  The FA-10 reminds me of the Ray Samuels Audio Dark Star in its power capabilities.  The downside was how many headphones were accidentally blown do to too much power,. 🤣😂


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## teknorob23

saadi703 said:


> I was looking for a powerful amp for my Hifiman Susvara (which was in transit to me from Hifiman) but I didn’t want to use any speaker amp as those things are noisier than headphone amps. The Hifiman EF1000 was too expensive for me and other options were pricer as well so I thought about buying Cayin iHA-6 but luckily I came to know about the flux FA-10 from soundnews review. This appeared to me the answer that I was looking for. I had comprehensive discussion with them on Facebook. It was good to know that they made this amp for Susvara and tested this amp with Susvara. So managed to order the FA-10 on last Sunday and now waiting for my FA-10. Hifiman Susvara arrived yesterday and now waiting for my FA-10 anxiously. The timing can not be any better.



congrats, did you manage to get your order in before they ran out of stock? My fa12 is hopefully on it’s way. Not sure how long shipping from Ukraine to UK will take, as you say the wait is painful, but likewise I’m not going anywhere either


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## GU1DO

teknorob23 said:


> congrats, did you manage to get your order in before they ran out of stock? My fa12 is hopefully on it’s way. Not sure how long shipping from Ukraine to UK will take, as you say the wait is painful, but likewise I’m not going anywhere either


Why did you go for the FA12 not the FA10 ?


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## teknorob23

GU1DO said:


> Why did you go for the FA12 not the FA10 ?



I was initially interested in the FA10 having seen both the soundnews and Headfonia reviews, but on speaking to Vitaliy at FLA at some length about my preferences and kit, he recommended the FA12. I intend to use it with Focal Elegia and Senn HD820 neither of which are hard to drive despite the Hd820s being rated 300ohm, so i dont need the power of the FA12. The other deciding factor is that i was looking to partner with my Hugo2, which i love but if had to find fault, it would be the slight dryness and ever so slight hard edges in upper mids-treble. I use to partner it and my TT2 with a feliks audio euforia ae OTL amp, but with the recent world events i had to scale back my system, to make up for my clients not buying the films a i make, so the TT2 and Euforia had to go. The Euforia brought just the right amount of warmth/wetness to the chord house sound, without any or negligible loss of resolution and from what Vitaliy says the FA12 will do just that and has more than enough power for my HPs. I like dynamic driver HP's so its likely driving any future purchases shouldnt be an issue either. 

There is of course also the option to pair it with a balanced source in the future too, but as i say this wasnt really a factor in my decision making, it more came down to the desired colour that the FA12 will bring to my existing set-up. If there needed to be clincher, then the high end features like the volume control and equally high end componentry all of which i've not seen at this price point, pushed me over the edge!


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## chrisdrop

Sub'd. Looking forward to seeing how you get on Rob.


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## jaaibananzu

Interested in a review with the Stellia and hd 800S


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## XVampireX

I got to hear the Solid One back in the day with mostly the Hifiman HE1K headphones and that was a Solid One for sure 
They are saying that this is an even better, and it's the same amplifier section across their hybrid solutions, including the Atlas.
So yeah, interesting.


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## saadi703

teknorob23 said:


> congrats, did you manage to get your order in before they ran out of stock? My fa12 is hopefully on it’s way. Not sure how long shipping from Ukraine to UK will take, as you say the wait is painful, but likewise I’m not going anywhere either


Thanks so much. Unfortunately, by the time I finished the order it was already out stock and it was on back order. So it is going to take one month or so for me. It’s a bummer as my Susvara has arrived already and I can’t wait for FA-10. Let us know when your FA-12 arrives and please share your experience and feedback. Congratulations to you as well


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## teknorob23

saadi703 said:


> Thanks so much. Unfortunately, by the time I finished the order it was already out stock and it was on back order. So it is going to take one month or so for me. It’s a bummer as my Susvara has arrived already and I can’t wait for FA-10. Let us know when your FA-12 arrives and please share your experience and feedback. Congratulations to you as well



I feel your pain and will do


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## cfranchi

I have just received my Hifiman HE6se, I wonder if FA-10 would be better than Audio GD Master 19 : both are class A, on paper FA-10 seems more powerful (2x10.5w at 50 ohm, numbers provided to me by Flux team) vs Audio GD Master 19 (2x9w at 40 ohm). Nothing is said about current provided, more important for me than W.

Interesting is the inner view of both amps:

FA10:





Master 19:




Well, I’m not in electronic, however design of FA10 is more simple, Master 19 has more transfo, more capa, etc, and still FA10 is more powerful : what do you think about this ? Flux engineers are clever ? or maybe this is because Master 19 is balanced, but FA10 is still more powerful on paper.


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## elira

cfranchi said:


> Nothing is said about current provided, more important for me than W.


You can calculate current from power and impedance. https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2014/03/power-voltage-current-resistance-pvir-calculator.html


cfranchi said:


> what do you think about this ? Flux engineers are clever ?


The FA10 seems to be a refined speaker amp. The output transistors look bigger than the ones used in the Master 19. To me seems like Audio-GD had an objective different than raw power.


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## drc73rp

I think also this is because the FA-10 is just single ended so naturally the AudioGD will have more in terms of parts being fully balanced. From power supply to amplification including the relay volume control will all be double that of the FA10. I have confirmed the single ended design from Flux.


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## cfranchi (May 13, 2020)

elira said:


> You can calculate current from power and impedance. https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2014/03/power-voltage-current-resistance-pvir-calculator.html



I don’t think current provided depends of the headphone impedance.

For example the Cayin iHA-6 amp provide a high current mode useful for planar headphones : at 32 ohm, the Cayin provide 7w at low current and 5w at high current.

Given your link, there is more current at 7w than 5w, which is not the case for the Cayin.

It would be nice if someone from Flux can provide more useful info about their amp design....


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## elira

cfranchi said:


> I don’t think current provided depends of the headphone impedance.
> 
> For example the Cayin iHA-6 amp provide a high current mode useful for planar headphones : at 32 ohm, the Cayin provide 7w at low current and 5w at high current.
> 
> ...


More power = more current, it's a fact based on how current and power are defined. Either the specs of the Cayin are wrong, or their definition of "high current" refers to something else.


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## cfranchi

elira said:


> More power = more current, it's a fact based on how current and power are defined. Either the specs of the Cayin are wrong, or their definition of "high current" refers to something else.



4w = 1v x 4A
8w = 8v x 1A

I would take the amp that provide 4A instead of the one that provide 8w


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## elira

cfranchi said:


> 4w = 1v x 4A
> 8w = 8v x 1A
> 
> I would take the amp that provide 4A instead of the one that provide 8w


Those values are only possible using different resistances. In the first case 0.25 ohm and 8 ohm in the second. You need to compare them using the same resistance (impedance).


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## cfranchi

Well I have ordered FA-10 for my HE6se, I have plenty of expectations. Should receive it in 6 weeks.


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## saadi703

cfranchi said:


> Well I have ordered FA-10 for my HE6se, I have plenty of expectations. Should receive it in 6 weeks.


Congratulations, I also have high hopes and expectations. The wait is killing me though.


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## Audio Addict

saadi703 said:


> Congratulations, I also have high hopes and expectations. The wait is killing me though.



I have been messaging with them today and they believe they have found an alternative to EMS which would get it delivered, at least to the US in 2 weeks.  If yours has not shipped you may want to touch base with them.


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## GU1DO

teknorob23 said:


> I was initially interested in the FA10 having seen both the soundnews and Headfonia reviews, but on speaking to Vitaliy at FLA at some length about my preferences and kit, he recommended the FA12. I intend to use it with Focal Elegia and Senn HD820 neither of which are hard to drive despite the Hd820s being rated 300ohm, so i dont need the power of the FA12. The other deciding factor is that i was looking to partner with my Hugo2, which i love but if had to find fault, it would be the slight dryness and ever so slight hard edges in upper mids-treble. I use to partner it and my TT2 with a feliks audio euforia ae OTL amp, but with the recent world events i had to scale back my system, to make up for my clients not buying the films a i make, so the TT2 and Euforia had to go. The Euforia brought just the right amount of warmth/wetness to the chord house sound, without any or negligible loss of resolution and from what Vitaliy says the FA12 will do just that and has more than enough power for my HPs. I like dynamic driver HP's so its likely driving any future purchases shouldnt be an issue either.
> 
> There is of course also the option to pair it with a balanced source in the future too, but as i say this wasnt really a factor in my decision making, it more came down to the desired colour that the FA12 will bring to my existing set-up. If there needed to be clincher, then the high end features like the volume control and equally high end componentry all of which i've not seen at this price point, pushed me over the edge!


Thanks for the reply and Sorry to hear that , i hope these crazy times pass and everybody is safe and sound and things go back to normal ,,
you have a really nice collection of gear , i guess you made the better choice if the FA12 is warmer , it would work better with the focal and HD820, can't wait for your impressions.


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## cfranchi (May 17, 2020)

George Dobrescu at Audiophile-heaven has reviewed Audio-Gd master 19 (powerful 2x9w at 40 ohm and still a reasonable price) and find it to be a great match with Hifiman HE6-se : I have suggested him to get in touch with Flux and to review the FA-10 which on paper has even more power than Master 19 for a less expensive price.

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/unexpected-winner-audio-gd-master-19.html?m=1


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## omniweltall

This is an interesting amp indeed. If this is as powerful as advertised, and sounds competitive with top amps, then I am interested.


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## VitalyDon

Hi, guys! I am now also in search of a balanced high-power amp. To be exact, I look for something better than my balanced NFB-1 Amp, especially considering soundstage, separation and resolution. To be honest, NFB-1 is quite OK, but still not perfect. Also waiting for an overview of the  balanced FA-12, but at the same time I have a vague feeling that it can be compared to my NFB-1...


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## cfranchi

VitalyDon said:


> Hi, guys! I am now also in search of a balanced high-power amp. To be exact, I look for something better than my balanced NFB-1 Amp, especially considering soundstage, separation and resolution. To be honest, NFB-1 is quite OK, but still not perfect. Also waiting for an overview of the  balanced FA-12, but at the same time I have a vague feeling that it can be compared to my NFB-1...



What headphone do you have ? Why do you want to go balanced ?


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## teknorob23 (May 25, 2020)

VitalyDon said:


> Hi, guys! I am now also in search of a balanced high-power amp. To be exact, I look for something better than my balanced NFB-1 Amp, especially considering soundstage, separation and resolution. To be honest, NFB-1 is quite OK, but still not perfect. Also waiting for an overview of the  balanced FA-12, but at the same time I have a vague feeling that it can be compared to my NFB-1...



my FA12 might be arriving this week. According to the tracking it’s been airborn somewhere between Kiev and London for nearly 2 weeks. One reason could be DHL may have resorted to using hot air balloons during the pandemic??


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## cfranchi

I’m tempting to replace my order of FA-10 by FCN-10. I have received a Poly and wanted to do streaming from it but it’s a nightmare : it just doesn’t work at all, no wifi connection, no bitperfect control, etc. Too bad because I just love the sound from my Mojo. I have to read more about FCN-10.


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## VitalyDon (May 27, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> What headphone do you have ? Why do you want to go balanced ?


My headphones are the isodynamic Snorry SI-1 mk2 (they are now on their way, but I've listened to them, and really impressed). They are balanced, and the NFB-1 is balanced. But, as a matter of fact, being balanced is not the ultimate goal. Simply, NFB-1 is a little on the soft side, and I feel some (but not so considerable) lack of resolution.

And from what I've read (also from the answers of the Fluxlab's representatives), I have a feeling that FA-12 is also on the warm side. But still, FA-12 boasts more resolution than NFB-1 and is punchier. And I think FA-12 has a wider soundstage, which is also important for me.

But FA-12 is considerably less powerfull, which means it's not so universal, especially for planars.

I would have considered FA-10 (not balanced, but even more powerful than NFB-1), but have no idea as to it's character of sound (soundstage, resolution, tonal balance).

By the way, FCN-10 also looks attractive, as it has a top DAC chip and the FA10's amplification chain. But, again, no reviews so far.


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## teknorob23

VitalyDon said:


> My headphones are the isodynamic Snorry SI-1 mk2 (they are now on their way, but I've listened to them, and really impressed). They are balanced, and the NFB-1 is balanced. But, as a matter of fact, being balanced is not the ultimate goal. Simply, NFB-1 is a little on the soft side, and I feel some (but not so considerable) lack of resolution.
> 
> And from what I've read (also from the answers of the Fluxlab's representatives), I have a feeling that FA-12 is also on the warm side. But still, FA-12 boasts more resolution than NFB-1 and is punchier. And I think FA-12 has a wider soundstage, which is also important for me.
> 
> ...



soundnews review goes pretty in-depth with good range of comparisons


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## JanisR

Guys, have you compared the FA-10/12 to the THX AAA-789? What are the differences in sound signature? Is that even a fair comparison? I am assuming the FA-10/12 are a class above the THX. I don't suppose anyone has compared the Flux amps to the new Topping A90 amp, which on paper has perfect measurements but nobody seems to be talking about its sound signature and synergy.

I'm fancying the FA-12 in combination with the HD800s, as a cheaper alternative to the Violectric V280.


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## teknorob23

JanisR said:


> Guys, have you compared the FA-10/12 to the THX AAA-789? What are the differences in sound signature? Is that even a fair comparison? I am assuming the FA-10/12 are a class above the THX. I don't suppose anyone has compared the Flux amps to the new Topping A90 amp, which on paper has perfect measurements but nobody seems to be talking about its sound signature and synergy.
> 
> I'm fancying the FA-12 in combination with the HD800s, as a cheaper alternative to the Violectric V280.



unfortunately apart from review samples I donot think many of these have landed yet for anyone to make these comparisons. My fa12 should be here in the next few days (allegedly), is which I bought to run with my new Covid induced stripped down system hd820s and hugo2/2go. I have had violetric 281 and phonitor xe for a while too and although I maybe over egging my epectations, I’m hoping it will be better than both. FA are definitely talking a very good game, but obvs only listening will tell. And hopefully I’ll be reporting back sooner than later


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## cfranchi (May 28, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> unfortunately apart from review samples I donot think many of these have landed yet for anyone to make these comparisons. My fa12 should be here in the next few days (allegedly), is which I bought to run with my new Covid induced stripped down system hd820s and hugo2/2go. I have had violetric 281 and phonitor xe for a while too and although I maybe over egging my epectations, I’m hoping it will be better than both. FA are definitely talking a very good game, but obvs only listening will tell. And hopefully I’ll be reporting back sooner than later



V281 is a powerful amp, maybe FA-10 was more suitable to replace it. Why did you choose FA-12 ?


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## JanisR

cfranchi said:


> V281 is a powerful amp, maybe FA-10 was more suitable to replace it. Why did you choose FA-12 ?



According to Flux Labs, the FA-12 has a warmer sound signature, which is what Violectric is famous for.
Btw, Violectric V280 is currently on Massdrop, going for $1199. If the FA-12 manages to be at least as good, it's the amp for me.


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## teknorob23

JanisR said:


> According to Flux Labs, the FA-12 has a warmer sound signature, which is what Violectric is famous for.
> Btw, Violectric V280 is currently on Massdrop, going for $1199. If the FA-12 manages to be at least as good, it's the amp for me.



I never found the violetric exceptionally warm, it was dark then warm to my ears. I have to say i wasnt a massive fan and didnt keep for long. I like a little bit more extension and crispness in the treble,  which the FA12 supposedly provides as well as bit of warmth and hopefully more resolution too.


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## carlosgab

Anyone has received their amp? Impression?


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## teknorob23

carlosgab said:


> Anyone has received their amp? Impression?



Nope, just the month in air between kiev and london


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## m-i-c-k-e-y

In quarantine maybe...


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## Kevin Lee

I just join the Waiting FA-10 Club.


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## cfranchi (Jun 5, 2020)

I have high hopes for my future FA-10 to power my new Hifiman HE-6se. For now HE6se is waiting nicely... I have tried to power it with my beloved Mojo but it was just a joke. For now I’m waiting with my Sundara.


----------



## gancanjam

I am also considering Fluxlab FCN-10 compared to Mytek Brooklyn DAC+,  anyone have heard this then please share. Website says it is in backorder and may take few weeks to arrive.


----------



## cfranchi

Given the price difference I would go with FCN-10, don’t think Mytek would be better


----------



## gancanjam (Jun 7, 2020)

Good news is Flux has rave reviews from two superb reviewers, Soundnews and Headfonia but bad news is only two reviewed so far  hence skeptical. The strong suit looks like the Amplifier than their DAC, their DAC has little bit older AK chips than say Topping D90 with the new AK4499 Velvet chip but  Flux participated in some comments sections and stated their design compensates even though their chips are not the latest one. So if you guys already have a nice DAC, then try FA-10 amplifier but i don't want the hassle of pairing/running connect cables et.al so will go with FCN-10 DAC/Amp .

Hope this is a better choice than Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ which i am considering. I am also considering Topping D90 & iFi pro iCan ( in Audiogon there is a sale at a good price) and Burson audio conductor 3/X/P DAC/Amp but now leaning towards FCN-10 and this "blind buy"  better be good  !


----------



## artist777

Oh, wow, I'm just found a real feedback on FA-10 at their FB page.


----------



## Audio Addict

The big issue for all international purchased is shipping right now.  This is just a wild card when ordering.  I was close to ordering but decided not to given the stories still out there on the months for items to get delivered.


----------



## gancanjam

artist777 said:


> Oh, wow, I'm just found a real feedback on FA-10 at their FB page.



Yeah, I just saw the review in FB.  I chatted with Flux team in FB yesterday, they mentioned it will be 3 weeks backlog and 2 weeks to get here so 5 weeks give or take which is not too much of a wait considering our hobby.  But when I probed the "league" and comparison of this FCN-10 / FA-10 with other popular DAC/amps, they politely declined to comment on any details.  This hobby is killing us all, anyways am going to order it guys


----------



## saadi703

Has anyone received their flux dac/amp yet?


----------



## gancanjam

Seems no has received it yet except for a person who got FA-10 Amp and have posted in FB, please refer to the previous replies


----------



## NickT23

Hello, how do you afford the Susvara ?


----------



## NickT23

That guy is very bias dont respond to my response. Also, he cannot be direct of which is better because he does not want to mislead the readers.


----------



## NickT23

Have you heard the Phonitor X ?


----------



## saadi703

gancanjam said:


> Seems no has received it yet except for a person who got FA-10 Amp and have posted in FB, please refer to the previous replies


Yes I have seen that. Also I knew about that review even before someone posted here as it appears to be the same guy who has poster review on their website.


----------



## lambdastorm (Jun 9, 2020)

Anyone know the difference between FA10 and FA12? I get the impression that FA12 is a balanced amp but FA10 also has a balanced connector on the front. Am I missing something?


----------



## cfranchi

lambdastorm said:


> Anyone know the difference between FA10 and FA12? I get the impression that FA12 is a balanced amp but FA10 also has a balanced connector in the front. Am I missing something?



Balanced connector of FA-10 is just for convenience, FA-10 is a pure non balanced amp.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 9, 2020)

how to delete this post using mobile phone?


----------



## saadi703

lambdastorm said:


> Anyone know the difference between FA10 and FA12? I get the impression that FA12 is a balanced amp but FA10 also has a balanced connector in the front. Am I missing something?


In addition to what cfranchi mentioned above. You might be already aware that FA-12 is less powerful than FA-10. Sound signature wise: I was told that FA-12 is little warmer than FA-10.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> how to delete this post using mobile phone?


No idea man. Am new to this forum


----------



## NickT23

JanisR said:


> Guys, have you compared the FA-10/12 to the THX AAA-789? What are the differences in sound signature? Is that even a fair comparison? I am assuming the FA-10/12 are a class above the THX. I don't suppose anyone has compared the Flux amps to the new Topping A90 amp, which on paper has perfect measurements but nobody seems to be talking about its sound signature and synergy.
> 
> I'm fancying the FA-12 in combination with the HD800s, as a cheaper alternative to the Violectric V280.


Hi I can answer you. Its very simple even without elaboration. THX AAA 789 is pure analog which mostly based on science with the nature of audio. While Flux FA-10/12 are fully discreet class A which means more power which translate to higher distortion and noise floor. But at 0.006% of THD, can you actually hear distortion and noise floor when comparing to superior measurement of THX AAA789 and Toping A90. Thus, they are both different. Both 789 and A90 sound more nuetral by comparison to the Flux FA-10 means nothing is enhance or subtracting just pure audio from the recording that will depend on your source and cans. With FA-10, they enhance the synergy level of your headphones that flexes with technical performance more than the THX AAA 789. But does not means its better, just different. 789 more nuetral and better measurements with pure audio of amplifying clean signal (means getting louder) to your cans while FA-10 is all about enhancing sound quality while maintaining audio accuracy. 

Between Flux FA10/12 its very simple, their house sound but one is nuetral and one is warmer. One variant is more powerful than the other which is FA-10 being slightly more powerful according to the owner. 

And yes, better measurement does not determine sound quality. ASR is about being objectivist in audio terms. There is a reason why high end boutique refrain from letting Amir review it because it will loses its reputation due to unable to keep up in measurements with cheaper alternatives which automatically translate the reader mindset that thinks measurement is better and everything. Some people underestimate synergy level and pairing which is very important in the realm of high end headphones. Again Class A and AB will have more power in watts, more watts means more noise and distortion so usually their measurement unable to keep up. But can you hear the difference of extra zeroes ? 0.001 vs 0.0001 ? 

I would like to quote that since you mentioning HD800S, yes warmer sound balance into the mix but many prefer tubes with it. Just saying !


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> My headphones are the isodynamic Snorry SI-1 mk2 (they are now on their way, but I've listened to them, and really impressed). They are balanced, and the NFB-1 is balanced. But, as a matter of fact, being balanced is not the ultimate goal. Simply, NFB-1 is a little on the soft side, and I feel some (but not so considerable) lack of resolution.
> 
> And from what I've read (also from the answers of the Fluxlab's representatives), I have a feeling that FA-12 is also on the warm side. But still, FA-12 boasts more resolution than NFB-1 and is punchier. And I think FA-12 has a wider soundstage, which is also important for me.
> 
> ...


Looks attractive in terms of aesthetics is it ?


----------



## VitalyDon (Jun 10, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Looks attractive in terms of aesthetics is it ?


I meant merely technical aspects. I don't usually consider aesthetics when choosing sound devices. But, frankly, yes,  it is also quite attractive even in terms of aesthetics.

... Hell! It seems to me that I am going to order FCN-10.

SO PLEASE GUYS,

If any of you have reasons why FCN-10 and me should not be married, SPEAK NOW or forever hold your peace!


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> I meant merely technical aspects. I don't usually consider aesthetics when choosing sound devices. But, frankly, yes,  it is also quite attractive even in terms of aesthetics


Well agree but for me, I kinda feel that they should make their asthetics more unique like their own design not some typical rip off.


----------



## cfranchi

For sure asthetics of Burson or XI audio is great


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> For sure asthetics of Burson or XI audio is great


Are you kidding ?


----------



## cfranchi

NickT23 said:


> Are you kidding ?



not at all


----------



## gancanjam

VitalyDon said:


> I meant merely technical aspects. I don't usually consider aesthetics when choosing sound devices. But, frankly, yes,  it is also quite attractive even in terms of aesthetics.
> 
> ... Hell! It seems to me that I am going to order FCN-10.
> 
> ...




Am planning to order FCN-10 as well, @NickT23 also provided some good guidance on this to me and now am going to take the FCN-10 path.


----------



## NickT23

Well I dont like the design at all !


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> I meant merely technical aspects. I don't usually consider aesthetics when choosing sound devices. But, frankly, yes,  it is also quite attractive even in terms of aesthetics.
> 
> ... Hell! It seems to me that I am going to order FCN-10.
> 
> ...


If you are looking into Class A Amplifier that has linear FR, powerful & quiet under $1500, look no further. PERIOD ! No competition ! Unless others can lead me and proof me wrong. I think the second most cheapest class A is about $2500 or $3000. I dont think objectively it can be beaten.


----------



## VitalyDon

*NickT23*, thank you!

Anybody knows what's the name of the app for FCN-10 in Google Play store?

Generally speaking, I am curious how all that communication via WiFi and Ethernet works and what it looks like.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Well I dont like the design at all !


I agree. I am also not the fan of the design but at this price if the performance matches the specs then I don’t care about the design.


----------



## saadi703

VitalyDon said:


> *NickT23*, thank you!
> 
> Anybody knows what's the name of the app for FCN-10 in Google Play store?
> 
> Generally speaking, I am curious how all that communication via WiFi and Ethernet works and what it looks like.



It support DLNA and Airplay so any compatible app works. Also you can use an app like Bubble UPnP which support tidal, qobuz and google music.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Hello, how do you afford the Susvara ?


I just wanted it and this is why I bought it. Like Flux FA-10 it was a blind buy as well. There is no hifi headphone shop on my area where I can audition headphones so I just went with the reviews. I already have Arya and I loved it so I knew that it would be better than this and anything better than Arya meant one of the best out there. It is better looking and more pleasant on the head than Aybus 1266 so I went with Susvara. If you shop around on US audiomart and audiogon then you can get good deal on the headphones. Just message dealers and tell them your price range and if they agree then buy otherwise send message to the next dealer.


----------



## rmsanger

NickT23 said:


> If you are looking into Class A Amplifier that has linear FR, powerful & quiet under $1500, look no further. PERIOD ! No competition ! Unless others can lead me and proof me wrong. I think the second most cheapest class A is about $2500 or $3000. I dont think objectively it can be beaten.


Zeos loves the RebelAmp for $500 which is also Ukrainian and a beautiful emerald green.  However it’s power Is nowhere near the claimed output of the FN10.


----------



## VitalyDon

saadi703 said:


> It support DLNA and Airplay so any compatible app works. Also you can use an app like Bubble UPnP which support tidal, qobuz and google music.



Can I use Roon with FCN-10?


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> I agree. I am also not the fan of the design but at this price if the performance matches the specs then I don’t care about the design.


Well said ! But, at least its simple and well design, constructed. Well built and the volume knob. How is the volume knob for you?


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> Zeos loves the RebelAmp for $500 which is also Ukrainian and a beautiful emerald green.  However it’s power Is nowhere near the claimed output of the FN10.


Zeos, sounds familiar. Yes I did research on the inetrior design and yes it class A interior. However, not just power, i searched that its a warm with its own house sound. Yes FA-10 is better reference but different approach.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> I just wanted it and this is why I bought it. Like Flux FA-10 it was a blind buy as well. There is no hifi headphone shop on my area where I can audition headphones so I just went with the reviews. I already have Arya and I loved it so I knew that it would be better than this and anything better than Arya meant one of the best out there. It is better looking and more pleasant on the head than Aybus 1266 so I went with Susvara. If you shop around on US audiomart and audiogon then you can get good deal on the headphones. Just message dealers and tell them your price range and if they agree then buy otherwise send message to the next dealer.


Hello ! I was referring financially speaking because no offense you gotta to be rich to afford these luxury. As for me am planning to sell one of my insurance and car while with my expense of my savings to afford my susvara. Yes, just like you the Flux will be a blind buy as well so will be the susvara. My area or even country has no demo. Audio industry are full of BS and very expensive to setup as dealers or subsidaries, thus is why we have cam jam and other events and such. But crowded and different sources is a problem while not to mentioned expensive to travel. The best local dealer has many audio products but only the common ones and not many in specifics and their source are not consistent across many headphones. So sad. Worst part is that with some cans, we have to pay deposit.


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> Zeos loves the RebelAmp for $500 which is also Ukrainian and a beautiful emerald green.  However it’s power Is nowhere near the claimed output of the FN10.


I also, forget to add that the rebelamp is not even the same league as Flux. Dont think so. Can theur $500 compete with $3000 ? Because their FA-10/12 is trying to compete with the best if the best. And am not sure how Flux able to pull it off. Whike its better objectively but again, not really better, just different approach and synergy compatibility.


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> *NickT23*, thank you!
> 
> Anybody knows what's the name of the app for FCN-10 in Google Play store?
> 
> Generally speaking, I am curious how all that communication via WiFi and Ethernet works and what it looks like.


Yeah, just like what Saadi703 said.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> I was looking for a powerful amp for my Hifiman Susvara (which was in transit to me from Hifiman) but I didn’t want to use any speaker amp as those things are noisier than headphone amps. The Hifiman EF1000 was too expensive for me and other options were pricer as well so I thought about buying Cayin iHA-6 but luckily I came to know about the flux FA-10 from soundnews review. This appeared to me the answer that I was looking for. I had comprehensive discussion with them on Facebook. It was good to know that they made this amp for Susvara and tested this amp with Susvara. So managed to order the FA-10 on last Sunday and now waiting for my FA-10. Hifiman Susvara arrived yesterday and now waiting for my FA-10 anxiously. The timing can not be any better.


Share your impression with us  am interested in the susvara as well.


----------



## VitalyDon

My FCN-10 has been ordered and prepaid. 3-4 weeks of sweet expectations are ahead.


----------



## rmsanger (Jun 11, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> I also, forget to add that the rebelamp is not even the same league as Flux. Dont think so. Can theur $500 compete with $3000 ? Because their FA-10/12 is trying to compete with the best if the best. And am not sure how Flux able to pull it off. Whike its better objectively but again, not really better, just different approach and synergy compatibility.



He's pretty fond of it and says many glowing responses on the listening experience compared with $3k+ amps.  I cannot comment as frankly I have not heard RebelAmp or Flux Labs FA-10/12.  I can say I do trust Zeos reviews/opinions as I have listened and/owned dozens of pieces of equipment that he has reviewed and came away with a similar take.  There is also a dedicated thread on Hifiguides forum that many owners have reported back with very positive feedback.

IMO it's not a this vs. that discussion and I'm equally interested in the FA-10 and Rebel amp for $750 and $500 respectively.  It's interesting that both are affordable new amps, Class A, and come from the Ukraine.



https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/rebelamp/9064


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> He's pretty fond of it and says many glowing responses on the listening experience compared with $3k+ amps.  I cannot comment as frankly I have not heard RebelAmp or Flux Labs FA-10/12.  I can say I do trust Zeos reviews/opinions as I have listened and/owned dozens of pieces of equipment that he has reviewed and came away with a similar take.  There is also a dedicated thread on Hifiguides forum that many owners have reported back with very positive feedback.
> 
> IMO it's not a this vs. that discussion and I'm equally interested in the FA-10 and Rebel amp for $750 and $500 respectively.  It's interesting that both are affordable new amps, Class A, and come from the Ukraine.
> 
> ...




Now first thing first, "He's pretty fond of it and says many glowing responses on the listening experience compared with $3k+ amps." mostly because he dont talk about the sound such as FR and tonality with synergy level. Secondly, he does not looks at technicalities department which is fine since he care about other things. Also, he is catering to his demographics and not real actual facts of the sound. The Hifiguides is one of the most inaccurate information I have ever seen, but since he caters towards his demographic and people who dont know about audio, then its find. I find it very misleading. His impression is based on subjectivity which can be so misleading. 

The rebel amp you should comparing is FA-12 not FA-10. Again both are class A sound to it and has its own sound characteristics. But highly doubt its as technical as FA-12 and I dont have proof for my explanation. Because never even try.


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> He's pretty fond of it and says many glowing responses on the listening experience compared with $3k+ amps.  I cannot comment as frankly I have not heard RebelAmp or Flux Labs FA-10/12.  I can say I do trust Zeos reviews/opinions as I have listened and/owned dozens of pieces of equipment that he has reviewed and came away with a similar take.  There is also a dedicated thread on Hifiguides forum that many owners have reported back with very positive feedback.
> 
> IMO it's not a this vs. that discussion and I'm equally interested in the FA-10 and Rebel amp for $750 and $500 respectively.  It's interesting that both are affordable new amps, Class A, and come from the Ukraine.
> 
> ...



Oh yes I have one more to add. What camera did you use to capture their beauty ? Such high quality. Of all the hifi thread, this is one of the best capture quality have ever seen here. Period. The texture and the shadow is stunning.


----------



## artist777 (Jun 11, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> The rebel amp you should comparing is FA-12 not FA-10. Again both are class A sound to it and has its own sound characteristics. But highly doubt its as technical as FA-12 and I dont have proof for my explanation. Because never even try.


Apparently the Rebel amplifier is a copy of the amplifier from a Flux combo device. At Flux, it appeared a few years ago, judging by the review. Interestingly, does Flux know that their amps copy? You can evaluate the similarities yourself.


----------



## NickT23

artist777 said:


> Apparently the Rebel amplifier is a copy of the amplifier from a Flux combo device. At Flux, it appeared a few years ago, judging by the review. Interestingly, does Flux know that their amps copy? You can evaluate the similarities yourself.


Yes I could. And by the way, am unsure Rebel amplifier is a copy of the amplifier from a Flux combo device. I totally have no idea until you pointed it out. 
But is it a normal thing in almost industries, copying each other design to save cost ?


----------



## teknorob23

the Eagle having been in 4 week holding pattern outside COVID riddled heathrow has finally landed double boxed in unmarked packaging. My FA12 is in situ, but i have only had a quick listen to check it was working fine and his been running quietly in the corner since this morning. Providing the kids play ball i should hopefully be listening to it with 8 hours of run in by about 9 tonight.

My set up is as follows

_Istotek EVO Sirius Power strip > Neotech UPOCC Mains cables > INTEL NUC/ ROON ROC Server >  CIsco Switch > UPOCC Pure silver ethernet cable > ENO (Ethernet Network Optimiser.. this thing has to heard to be believed) > Chord 2Go/Hugo > UPOCC Silver RCA  > Flux Lab Acoustics FA12 > UPOCC silver HP SE cable > Sennheiser HD820 & Focal Elegia..._

I'll report back ASAP


----------



## cfranchi

teknorob23 said:


> the Eagle having been in 4 week holding pattern outside COVID riddled heathrow has finally landed double boxed in unmarked packaging. My FA12 is in situ, but i have only had a quick listen to check it was working fine and his been running quietly in the corner since this morning. Providing the kids play ball i should hopefully be listening to it with 8 hours of run in by about 9 tonight.
> 
> My set up is as follows
> 
> ...



That’s beautiful !


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> the Eagle having been in 4 week holding pattern outside COVID riddled heathrow has finally landed double boxed in unmarked packaging. My FA12 is in situ, but i have only had a quick listen to check it was working fine and his been running quietly in the corner since this morning. Providing the kids play ball i should hopefully be listening to it with 8 hours of run in by about 9 tonight.
> 
> My set up is as follows
> 
> ...


Nice now we need your impression !


----------



## gancanjam

Congrats  @teknorob23 , let us know !


----------



## NickT23

That photo makes the asthetics looks beautiful despite being plain. Does not looks nice on other site and its own website for some reason. I guess there is a saying do not judge its book by its cover !


----------



## teknorob23 (Jun 12, 2020)

If you seen already heres a little of bit news from FLA posted on there facebook page about the new baby sister tot the FA12, the FA12S and it's only $499

_"Dear friends!
Thanks to a lot of positive feedback on the FA-12 amplifier, we decided to design a more affordable, single-end version of amplifier - FLUX FA-12S
Main Features:
- Class A
- JFET inputs
- MOSFET outputs
- 64 steps volume relay attenuator
- Premium components: Nichicon, TAKMAN, NIPPON, FUJITSU-TAKAMISAWA etc.
- XLR input, RCA input
- PRE OUT
MSRP: 499 USD
It is still warm sound with the same charming character
Cheers!






photos posted with permissions of Flux Lab Acoustics_

https://www.facebook.com/fluxlabacoustics/posts/734067217134295


----------



## elira

teknorob23 said:


> If you seen already heres a little of bit news from FLA posted on there facebook page about the new baby sister tot the FA12, the FA12S and it's only $499
> 
> _"Dear friends!
> Thanks to a lot of positive feedback on the FA-12 amplifier, we decided to design a more affordable, single-end version of amplifier - FLUX FA-12S
> ...


That looks like a rebel amp in a different color.


----------



## tholt

Following. Have had a bit of discussion with Flux. I like a warmish signature from my amp as it complements the neutral/resolving character of my Abyss 1266 Phi, but they recommended the FA-10 over the FA-12. I presume due to power output. Interested in any future impressions with FA-10 (or FA-12) and Abyss.


----------



## artist777

elira said:


> That looks like a rebel amp in a different color.



Maybe looks, but there are a few significant differences, step relay attenuator and XLRs (in|out). First thing formally takes amp at a much higher technical level, second just useful) oh and of ON|OFF switch on front ))) IMHO


----------



## saadi703

teknorob23 said:


> the Eagle having been in 4 week holding pattern outside COVID riddled heathrow has finally landed double boxed in unmarked packaging. My FA12 is in situ, but i have only had a quick listen to check it was working fine and his been running quietly in the corner since this morning. Providing the kids play ball i should hopefully be listening to it with 8 hours of run in by about 9 tonight.
> 
> My set up is as follows
> 
> ...


My main problem with the design is that it is too deep. It can be a problem in terms of desk space. Yes, it is too plain and simple and can look better but I don’t mind that as much as that it is too deep. I have bought a separate desk to accomodate it in my setup. Still waiting for my FA-10 to arrive.The new FA-12S design looks better because it is more wider than deeper.


----------



## saadi703

teknorob23 said:


> If you seen already heres a little of bit news from FLA posted on there facebook page about the new baby sister tot the FA12, the FA12S and it's only $499
> 
> _"Dear friends!
> Thanks to a lot of positive feedback on the FA-12 amplifier, we decided to design a more affordable, single-end version of amplifier - FLUX FA-12S
> ...


I have seen this news already. I like the dimension more than FA-10/12. If it sounds the same as the bigger brother than it is a win win.


----------



## teknorob23

saadi703 said:


> My main problem with the design is that it is too deep. It can be a problem in terms of desk space. Yes, it is too plain and simple and can look better but I don’t mind that as much as that it is too deep. I have bought a separate desk to accomodate it in my setup. Still waiting for my FA-10 to arrive.The new FA-12S design looks better because it is more wider than deeper.



Yes its definitely needs some real estate and wouldnt be my choice for desktop set up. I have my FA12 in the living room in wooden shelving unit above my Primare AV Receiver, so depth is less of an issue. No comments from the wife yet, but its early days


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 12, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> Yes its definitely needs some real estate and wouldnt be my choice for desktop set up. I have my FA12 in the living room in wooden shelving unit above my Primare AV Receiver, so depth is less of an issue. No comments from the wife yet, but its early days


Nice. I have also bought a separate wooden shelve to accommodate it. How does it sound? Any early impressions?


----------



## elira

If it's not intended to be on a desk, then I think it needs a remote, otherwise it will be hard to control the volume.


----------



## saadi703

elira said:


> If it's not intended to be on a desk, then I think it needs a remote, otherwise it will be hard to control the volume.


Good point.


----------



## teknorob23

saadi703 said:


> I have seen this news already. I like the dimension more than FA-10/12. If it sounds the same as the bigger brother than it is a win win.



As i understand it, the design is very similar to the FA12 obviously minus the balanced circuitry. The FA12 also a big more powerful PSU. I asked Vitaliy at FLA what differences in performance could be expected, which he was happy for me to share in case anyone here finds it useful. Apologies in advance for those of you who no a lot more about electronics, than i do. I'm all about appreciating the end product 

Vitaliy (FLA) :_ 
" FA-12 has strong side on quiescent current of the output stage it is bigger in 1.5 times because of more powerful PSU, so you will have always better performance on it than at FA-12S"_

Me: 
_What is quiescent current and why is more of it good?_

Vitaliy (FLA): 
_"That means that the amplifier operates in a more linear mode, or we can say that it works in a deeper class A. This provides lower harmonic and intermodulation distortion. But the most important thing is that it provides a more solid / monolithic sound.
You will get a higher level of details also across the entire frequency range"_


----------



## saadi703

teknorob23 said:


> As i understand it, the design is very similar to the FA12 obviously minus the balanced circuitry. The FA12 also a big more powerful PSU. I asked Vitaliy at FLA what differences in performance could be expected, which he was happy for me to share in case anyone here finds it useful. Apologies in advance for those of you who no a lot more about electronics, than i do. I'm all about appreciating the end product
> 
> Vitaliy (FLA) :_
> " FA-12 has strong side on quiescent current of the output stage it is bigger in 1.5 times because of more powerful PSU, so you will have always better performance on it than at FA-12S"_
> ...


Yes design is similar in terms pf aesthetic but it is less deeper than the FA-10/12 so it is more desktop friendly.


----------



## teknorob23

saadi703 said:


> Nice. I have also bought a separate wooden shelve to accommodate it. How does it sound? Any early impressions?



Ive been listening for a couple of hours mainly to new electronica like Beatrice Dillon's newish album


And Max Cooper's 3D Reworks 001 EP which is sort of binaurially recorded, but also really good in its own right


I know this is not what you really want to know, but its too soon to share anything reliable with you in terms of impressions and i'm sure its going to change over the 150-200 hrs.

A few technical notes, first there appears to be little or no loss of the Hugo2's resolving powers and the stereo image is spot on. The amp is silent until you get to almost full volume and even then theres only the slightest whisper. Physically the FA12 has been powered up constantly for 10hrs playing in high gain at 11 o'clock on volume and its warm but not hot. 

Sorry thats it for now, but i'll share some more impressions, as soon as i have something more useful to say.


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> Ive been listening for a couple of hours mainly to new electronica like Beatrice Dillon's newish album
> 
> And Max Cooper's 3D Reworks 001 EP which is sort of binaurially recorded, but also really good in its own right



Awesome that you can share the songs directly into a post. Didn't know that could be done. Good stuff from Bandcamp


----------



## JanisR

Hang on, so, is the FA-10 fully balanced or not? My understanding was that the FA-10 and FA-12 are, apart from the single transformer, fully balanced.


----------



## saadi703

JanisR said:


> Hang on, so, is the FA-10 fully balanced or not? My understanding was that the FA-10 and FA-12 are, apart from the single transformer, fully balanced.


FA-10 is single ended. FA-12 is fully balanced.


----------



## elira

Today I received the FA-12, and turns out that the SE input only works with the SE output, which is kind of odd, and I wasn't expecting that.


----------



## omniweltall

elira said:


> Today I received the FA-12, and turns out that the SE input only works with the SE output, which is kind of odd, and I wasn't expecting that.


You mean, if we use SE input, then we can't use Balanced out? No sound?


----------



## elira

omniweltall said:


> You mean, if we use SE input, then we can't use Balanced out? No sound?


Yes, with SE input no balanced output, and with balanced input no SE output.


----------



## omniweltall

elira said:


> Yes, with SE input no balanced output, and with balanced input no SE output.


With balanced input, no SE output?? Man. This is interesting.


----------



## elira

omniweltall said:


> With balanced input, no SE output?? Man. This is interesting.


It’s single ended in and out or balanced in and out. It’s like having a single ended amp and a balanced amp, but you can only use one of them at a time.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> I have seen this news already. I like the dimension more than FA-10/12. If it sounds the same as the bigger brother than it is a win win.


Most probably I think because its single ended design and so able to save space.


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> Following. Have had a bit of discussion with Flux. I like a warmish signature from my amp as it complements the neutral/resolving character of my Abyss 1266 Phi, but they recommended the FA-10 over the FA-12. I presume due to power output. Interested in any future impressions with FA-10 (or FA-12) and Abyss.


Honestly speaking, I can tell that the Abyss 1266 Phi paired well with the FA-10. Even without Flux recommendation. Abyss 1266 Phi.  The sheer transparency and see-through character is what makes this pairing stand out. You get a highly resolved picture that is rendered very well. The pitch black background of the FA-10 gives the Abyss remarkable imaging and stereo separation. The Abyss 1266 Phi is trying to be the best headphone meaning a clear reference world class sounding meaning its reflecting to be speed, resolution and transparency which the FA-10 is about. In my opinion, warm signature should be based maybe on warm headphones. The thing with synergy is that you would want accentuate the strength of the driver sonic properties not altering the sound signature. A warm amplifier on high end nuetral/resolving headphone is a bit of a waste. HD800S is perfect for it. Unless you go with tubes, now that is a different story with the Abyss 1266 Phi. Giving a warmer characteristics will take a way clarity of the resolving headphone itself.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> I have seen this news already. I like the dimension more than FA-10/12. If it sounds the same as the bigger brother than it is a win win.


Most probably same sound. The question is do you need balance and IMO you need it because you own Susvara. That thing usually preferably to paired with speaker amps. You need the POWERRRRRR !!!!


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Good point.


Do you think we all can asked Vitalie to make a remote for us for our Flux amps ?


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Most probably I think because its single ended design and so able to save space.



And apart from the convenience of being able to use a XLR terminated HP cable, what we would be the point of connecting via the balanced out if you're not inputting a balanced signal. Admitedly its always useful to be able to play two pairs of HPs at the same time but as with the lack to the remote, i think the money has gone into the components and achieving the best sonic performance, which is why amps of this calibre cost only $749. Its too early for me to make direct comparisons and i'm dangerous territory of trying to do it from memory, but based on last nights listening session i'm pretty confident saying tha the FA12 hits way above its price-tag. There is a wamth, but theirs no bloating, and the treble is still snappy and pretty crystalline, unlike say the V281 which was warmish but way to dark for my tastes. Obviously i need to run this thing in before i can give any proper impressions, but signs are good and it already feels very good value... Might just be the 6 week wait speaking so i'll need to let that novelty wear off too


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> Ive been listening for a couple of hours mainly to new electronica like Beatrice Dillon's newish album
> 
> 
> And Max Cooper's 3D Reworks 001 EP which is sort of binaurially recorded, but also really good in its own right
> ...



What headphone did you use ? 
Do you think its necessary to burn in your amp ?


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> And apart from the convenience of being able to use a XLR terminated HP cable, what we would be the point of connecting via the balanced out if you're not inputting a balanced signal. Admitedly its always useful to be able to play two pairs of HPs at the same time but as with the lack to the remote, i think the money has gone into the components and achieving the best sonic performance, which is why amps of this calibre cost only $749. Its too early for me to make direct comparisons and i'm dangerous territory of trying to do it from memory, but based on last nights listening session i'm pretty confident saying tha the FA12 hits way above its price-tag. There is a wamth, but theirs no bloating, and the treble is still snappy and pretty crystalline, unlike say the V281 which was warmish but way to dark for my tastes. Obviously i need to run this thing in before i can give any proper impressions, but signs are good and it already feels very good value... Might just be the 6 week wait speaking so i'll need to let that novelty wear off too


Nice quote on that. However, have you tried other expensive nuetral/warm class A amp compared to your FA-12 ? There are some expensive Class A amp sound so bad for the price point at least to my expectations. Now, even if you were to not putting balanced signal, there some users prefer balance connection and feels the need to paired with some of their headphones. But honestly, I do wish we have an options. The FA-10/12 should have fully balanced design and signal regardless whether we have the benefit or not and of course with an additional remote for it, and IMO would glad pay an additional cost for it since these category of Class A sound are end game category for many of us, well at least for me ! FCN-10 should have remote since there is AKM Dac implemented on it. 

Sorry to asked, which headphones you tested on it ?


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> What headphone did you use ?
> Do you think its necessary to burn in your amp ?



I've only listened with Sennheiser HD820 (300ohm), so far, mainly because it sounds too good to want to swap to my elegias. And yes 100% re burn-in, a bit of brain but 90% machine


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> I've only listened with Sennheiser HD820 (300ohm), so far, mainly because it sounds too good to want to swap to my elegias. And yes 100% re burn-in, a bit of brain but 90% machine


Now I understand why you go for FA-12 in general


----------



## VitalyDon (Jun 14, 2020)

tholt said:


> I like a warmish signature from my amp as it complements the neutral/resolving character of my Abyss 1266 Phi, but they recommended the FA-10 over the FA-12. I presume due to power output.



It's better to have a neutral and more powerful amp, simply because you can change neutrality to warmth using an external DAC and/or preamp. But you can't change warmth for neutrality. Additional rational is that the neutral amp is much-much more powerful and drives anything you may need in the future.

It's a real pleasure to know and feel that whichever headphones you may connect they will show their best, and the amp will never be a limiting factor. For me, it's so simple. And the winner in the battle "much less power but balanced" vs "absolute power for everything & tonal universality"  is evident.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Most probably same sound. The question is do you need balance and IMO you need it because you own Susvara. That thing usually preferably to paired with speaker amps. You need the POWERRRRRR !!!!


My FA-10 is already on its way however I was thinking about this FA-12S as an alternative whenever I need a warmer sounding amp as I have multiple headphones including HD800S.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 13, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Nice quote on that. However, have you tried other expensive nuetral/warm class A amp compared to your FA-12 ? There are some expensive Class A amp sound so bad for the price point at least to my expectations. Now, even if you were to not putting balanced signal, there some users prefer balance connection and feels the need to paired with some of their headphones. But honestly, I do wish we have an options. The FA-10/12 should have fully balanced design and signal regardless whether we have the benefit or not and of course with an additional remote for it, and IMO would glad pay an additional cost for it since these category of Class A sound are end game category for many of us, well at least for me ! FCN-10 should have remote since there is AKM Dac implemented on it.
> 
> Sorry to asked, which headphones you tested on it ?


There is already a fully balanced amp with same power as FA-10 in the works. Check their Facebook page and it might cost 3k or more. So you can check with them.


----------



## cfranchi

saadi703 said:


> There is already a fully balanced amp with same power as FA-10 in the works. Check their Facebook page and it might cost 3k or more. So you can check with them.



It is the Volot ? Same power but balanced instead is quite expensive : wonder what it could bring more in term of sound.


----------



## VitalyDon (Jun 13, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> wonder what it could bring more in term of sound.



IMHO, getting balanced is the game mainly imposed by marketing departments. They ask about twice as much money for the things they could have done without any balance. And balance as such is no guarantee of quality.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> There is already a fully balanced amp with same power as FA-10 in the works. Check their Facebook page and it might cost 3k or more. So you can check with them.


Can I see the link ? There will be a new FA-10 ? What do you mean ?


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> IMHO, getting balanced is the game mainly imposed by marketing departments. They ask about twice as much money for the things they could have done without any balance. And balance as such is no guarantee of quality.


Yes the whole reason of balance of spitting two wires and everything, which so happen to avoid electronic filtering noise able ling to provide a cleaner signal, hence lower distortion and noise. Also, the extract more current meaning more power. But the amp itself is already powerful and most amp these days have super low noise/distortion ratio. However, implementing fully balance is always a good thing for pure audio which perceive it as the most complete engineering. Even if there are difference or not. But of course it will come with a cost. Thus, they should have different models with balance design or not fully balance and charge it different prices !


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> It is the Volot ? Same power but balanced instead is quite expensive : wonder what it could bring more in term of sound.


Nothing ! No changes on the sound rather than provide more power and different current level that varies with volume knob. Unless you have a DAC to control the current of the amp with different gain settings. Balance is useless basically unless you like to play around with your headphones with different volume level with different gain settings. But at the end of the day, its the same. However, there are some people mentioned certain headphone sound better if connected to balance. Till this day, I would like see some proof with measurement and with my own hearing to proof that doubt.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Yes design is similar in terms pf aesthetic but it is less deeper than the FA-10/12 so it is more desktop friendly.


Do you think is possible for us the gather as a group to request Vitalie from Flux to built his FA/FCN-10/12 similar size to the FA-12s ? Similar specs but different size while equipped with fully balance design ?


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Now I understand why you go for FA-12 in general



Yep. As i've mentioned i think in a previous post, i've down sized my main rig after having a client going bust owing me a lot of money, from Hugo TT2/ Feliks Audio Euforia AE/ Focal Stellia. I managed to hold a bit of the money from the sale to get the Hugo2/2go and i found a pair of ex-demo HD820, the FA12 is an attempt to find a high quality amp to fill the very big shoes of the Euforia (which if you havent heard is a very neutral, not to warm tube amp. So far the FA12 does not come across overly warm at all, its pretty neutral with no peaks and troughs just a hint of warmth, to my ears at least.


----------



## saadi703

cfranchi said:


> It is the Volot ? Same power but balanced instead is quite expensive : wonder what it could bring more in term of sound.


Since he wanted balanced so this is why I mentioned. I am quite happy with FA-10 being single ended since it is significantly cheaper.


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> Yep. As i've mentioned i think in a previous post, i've down sized my main rig after having a client going bust owing me a lot of money, from Hugo TT2/ Feliks Audio Euforia AE/ Focal Stellia. I managed to hold a bit of the money from the sale to get the Hugo2/2go and i found a pair of ex-demo HD820, the FA12 is an attempt to find a high quality amp to fill the very big shoes of the Euforia (which if you havent heard is a very neutral, not to warm tube amp. So far the FA12 does not come across overly warm at all, its pretty neutral with no peaks and troughs just a hint of warmth, to my ears at least.


Honestly even before I heard about the FA-12 and from your impression, I even can tell and predict that the FA-12 is slightly warm and overall nuetral fidelity. So slight downwards sloping warmth and enhance technical performance and accuracy. So what you said referring to 'hint of warmth' am not surprise and can somewhat tell. Am good at predicting stuff. 
So any how many solid state and dacs you own ? Honestly speaking I only own one. Am planning to have dac paired with my future FCN-10 !


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Can I see the link ? There will be a new FA-10 ? What do you mean ?


They have not named it yet but they are calling it Volot. I asked them about this product back in April before ordering FA-10 and they told me it might take another couple of months and then I asked them the price for it and they said that they have not priced it officially yet but it would be 3-3.5k. Here is the link of their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/518195208721498/?d=n


----------



## tholt

elira said:


> Today I received the FA-12, and turns out that the SE input only works with the SE output, which is kind of odd, and I wasn't expecting that.


That is odd. I guess it's really being a purist design, but hardly practical. First HP amp I've heard that does it this way.



NickT23 said:


> A warm amplifier on high end nuetral/resolving headphone is a bit of a waste. HD800S is perfect for it. Unless you go with tubes, now that is a different story with the Abyss 1266 Phi. Giving a warmer characteristics will take a way clarity of the resolving headphone itself.



I disagree, but to each their own. One man's "neutral" is another man's "boring" is another man's "bright" and on and on. I'm out of the neutral game. I'm into enjoyment. I love the Abyss for what it does better than any other headphone -- resolution, speed, clarity, soundstaging, bass. You can get all of those with a capable amplifier, some more or less than others depending on the amp. What I'm not crazy about is that for me, it can get a little hot on top and a little thin through the middle. But that can be mitigated with a complementary amp. Right now I am using a tube amp, best I've heard so far, but always curious of other options and open minded to different sounds.


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Honestly even before I heard about the FA-12 and from your impression, I even can tell and predict that the FA-12 is slightly warm and overall nuetral fidelity. So slight downwards sloping warmth and enhance technical performance and accuracy. So what you said referring to 'hint of warmth' am not surprise and can somewhat tell. Am good at predicting stuff.
> So any how many solid state and dacs you own ? Honestly speaking I only own one. Am planning to have dac paired with my future FCN-10 !



I only have the Chord Hugo2 DAC. I do have dragonfly cobalt and chord mojo, but i only really use those for travelling. By all accounts the FCN-10 has a pretty good DAC implementation of its own, what DAC are you looking to use?


----------



## artist777

tholt said:


> That is odd. I guess it's really being a purist design, but hardly practical. First HP amp I've heard that does it this way.



Found out a little. If the circuit is balanced from input to output, then it will not be able to work simultaneously with balanced and unbalanced TRS output. For a balanced output, all four channels of the amplifier are required, for a TRS output, only two channels are needed and a common ground (which is not required for a balanced output). If you need the work of all the outputs at the same time, I think it is easier to look at the FA-12S model.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Honestly even before I heard about the FA-12 and from your impression, I even can tell and predict that the FA-12 is slightly warm and overall nuetral fidelity. So slight downwards sloping warmth and enhance technical performance and accuracy. So what you said referring to 'hint of warmth' am not surprise and can somewhat tell. Am good at predicting stuff.
> So any how many solid state and dacs you own ? Honestly speaking I only own one. Am planning to have dac paired with my future FCN-10 !


It is mentioned on Flux website as well that it is warm sounding amp.


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> That is odd. I guess it's really being a purist design, but hardly practical. First HP amp I've heard that does it this way.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, but to each their own. One man's "neutral" is another man's "boring" is another man's "bright" and on and on. I'm out of the neutral game. I'm into enjoyment. I love the Abyss for what it does better than any other headphone -- resolution, speed, clarity, soundstaging, bass. You can get all of those with a capable amplifier, some more or less than others depending on the amp. What I'm not crazy about is that for me, it can get a little hot on top and a little thin through the middle. But that can be mitigated with a complementary amp. Right now I am using a tube amp, best I've heard so far, but always curious of other options and open minded to different sounds.


You may disagree, but am referring to full objectivist with actual truth in audio spectrum and synergy level. But either way, there is no right and wrong because the way I evaluate, I may prefer the inferior gear because it sounds good to my ears but in actual truth there are better gears out there regardless of personal preference or not. 

What tube are you using anyway ?


----------



## passernger10000

So, how many people here actually own a Flux Labs FA-10 or 12?


----------



## teknorob23

passernger10000 said:


> So, how many people here actually own a Flux Labs FA-10 or 12?



+1 fa12


----------



## passernger10000

teknorob23 said:


> +1 fa12


I am thinking of the FA-12 for Elegia, Modhouse Argons and various Hifiman phones.


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> I only have the Chord Hugo2 DAC. I do have dragonfly cobalt and chord mojo, but i only really use those for travelling. By all accounts the FCN-10 has a pretty good DAC implementation of its own, what DAC are you looking to use?


Either Toping D90 and Okto Research Dac 8 Stereo. I have neither of them. Really depends on my situation at the moment now. Looking forward for your impression soon enough !


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## saadi703 (Jun 14, 2020)

My FA-10 has been shipped and it is on it’s way. So +1 FA-10. Bought it specifically for Hifiman Susvara. My other Headphones has been served pretty well by Monolith THX 887 including Hifiman Arya, HD800S, Focal Elex etc. Few others that I now longer use such as HD598, AKG K702 and some other cheaper Sennheisers. I am not gonna lie but 887 can drive the Susvara pretty well but I am going for extra powerful amp just out of curiosity i.e. whether it is going to make any difference or not.  For portable iFi iDSD Black Label is serving me pretty well as DAC amp combo. For desktop DAC, I am using Topping D90 So I don’t need FCN-10.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> My FA-10 has been shipped and it is on it’s way. So +1 FA-10. Bought it specifically for Hifiman Susvara. My other Headphones has been served pretty well by Monolith THX 887 including Hifiman Arya, HD800S, Focal Elex etc. Few others that I now longer use such as HD598, AKG K702 and some other cheaper Sennheisers. I am not gonna lie but 887 can drive the Susvara pretty well but I am going for extra powerful amp just out of curiosity i.e. whether it is going to make any difference or not.  For portable iFi iDSD Black Label is serving me pretty well as DAC amp combo. For desktop DAC, I am using Topping D90 So I don’t need FCN-10.


What ! I dint know you are rich. I remember asking you how do you afford the susvara financially and such. But this closet organize setup worth almost $15,000, a price of a car. If you can afford such luxury, you could have spent like $5000 Class A amp. Is that all you own by the way ?


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 14, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> What ! I dint know you are rich. I remember asking you how do you afford the susvara financially and such. But this closet organize setup worth almost $15,000, a price of a car. If you can afford such luxury, you could have spent like $5000 Class A amp. Is that all you own by the way ?


As far as expensive stuff goes then yes, this is pretty much I have. Couple of more cheaper Sennheisers (which I don’t know why Sennheiser make and someone gifted them to me). I am not rich but my days go by fine. However whatever hobby I have, I try to taste the best possible the world has to offer. Yes I can buy expensive class A amp as well but for some reason it appears waste of money as I think difference would be noticeable but not substantial. The reason I bought expensive cans is because to me Cans makes the biggest difference in chain and everything else makes smaller difference thus feels waste of money as there diminishing returns. The diminishing returns is also true for expensive cans as well but at least the difference is bigger than the DAC and amp that you are using. When I bought Focal Elex then I thought that they are good enough for me but the upgrade buy bit me which is pretty common in this hobby.


----------



## NickT23

Well you seems rich to me and have many argument to make to proof in life and reality. But nevermind that. I agree with the law of diminishing returns when it comes to amp and dac but for headphones not really unless depends on certain category of headphone, sonic signature based. Well, if you actually heard real expensive Class A with the FA-10, I kinda wish you share your impression. Oh by the way, am getting the Hifiman Susvara by selling my insurance and car. To me is worth it. And am going to have three main headphone and Susvara is being one of them .


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Well you seems rich to me and have many argument to make to proof in life and reality. But nevermind that. I agree with the law of diminishing returns when it comes to amp and dac but for headphones not really unless depends on certain category of headphone, sonic signature based. Well, if you actually heard real expensive Class A with the FA-10, I kinda wish you share your impression. Oh by the way, am getting the Hifiman Susvara by selling my insurance and car. To me is worth it. And am going to have three main headphone and Susvara is being one of them .


Yes sure, I will share my impressions with FA-10 when I receive it. I also love Susvara and it is ny favorite headphone because it has the presentation that I like and still it is extremely detailed. It works with neutral amps without any problem because of its more pleasing presentation. Only the person who are buying it can decide whether it is worth it for him or not. Just like you feel that it is worth it for you and I also felt the same and this is why I bought it.
 I might buy Abyss 1266 just to have a different sounding high end can than the Susvara (not any time soon though). The reason why I haven’t bought it yet rhat I have heard that Abyss has more in your face type of detail which I am not personally.a fan of. I might be wrong but this is what everybody has told me whoever has heard it. Whereas Susvara is very similarly detailed but much pleasing presentation. Some times you are in a mood of having extra punch and slam than this is where Abyss excel over susvara.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Yes sure, I will share my impressions with FA-10 when I receive it. I also love Susvara and it is ny favorite headphone because it has the presentation that I like and still it is extremely detailed. It works with neutral amps without any problem because of its more pleasing presentation. Only the person who are buying it can decide whether it is worth it for him or not. Just like you feel that it is worth it for you and I also felt the same and this is why I bought it.
> I might buy Abyss 1266 just to have a different sounding high end can than the Susvara (not any time soon though). The reason why I haven’t bought it yet rhat I have heard that Abyss has more in your face type of detail which I am not personally.a fan of. I might be wrong but this is what everybody has told me whoever has heard it. Whereas Susvara is very similarly detailed but much pleasing presentation. Some times you are in a mood of having extra punch and slam than this is where Abyss excel over susvara.


Honestly speaking Susvara just like you, its a blind buy without hesitation because I know what it could do. Not only its the most expensive planner in the market, its also the most highly technical performance plannar/headphone as a standard headphone before to the next level if price is not object performing headphone such as Orphues and Shangri-La. Best sonic performance as a plannar of realism and natural tone, period; regardless whether you prefer the sound signature or not. Also it complements to my other two headphones in the future. Nuetral/plannar/technical/natural realism and the other two Warm/dynamic/fun/natural realism/fun. But for you to not having financial restriction without compromise other assets to get the Susvara, saying something of you having high standard living. Typical Qatar people. Even before the impression by others, my prediction came true between Abyss TC 1266 and the Hifiman Susvara but my evaluation will not be accurate since have never demo either of them. The TC 1266 is a perfect complement to the Susvara. One is more agressive, dynamic best best bass in the world, speaker-acoustic like presentation, pure reference/realism while the other is light, airy, warmer intimate sound, softer to the touch with pure naturalness/realism. Both in par in realism but one is reference and accurate while the other is natural and soft/light presentation. Best to get both. But beyond my budget of $11,000. But to me, the Abyss TC 1266 is a better headphone than the Hifiman Susvara and the Stax SR-009S being the third best in the world before the Orphues and Shangri-La. However, my preference of getting the Susvara over the Abyss is the same as you, detailed are in your face. Plus, I have other headphone for viseral dynamics and slam impact but probably not the same level as the Abyss. To me, Abyss > Susvara, period. Also the Susvara will be my second main eventhought will be the best sounding cans in my collection. Its all matter of preference. 

To be straightforward, possession of the Susvara and the TC1266 is the only two headphone you ever need and no point considering others. PERIOD, end of story ! But I doubt anyone will own both unless you are rich.


----------



## tesox

OMG .....
You should know that the quality of a Headphone is not defined by its price. Thats sounds like "Orpheus is the best Headphone because its the most expensive..."  and so on.
This is exactly why saadi703 does not buy a 5000K amp. Keep your car and don't waste your money for a luxury product wich has a REALLY bad price performance ratio.
For example: I own some ~1-2K Planars like Audeze LCD-3 (2018) and HEXv2 and others. Recently I purchased a Quad Era-1 wich is around 800 and it  bests them all in many terms. NO offend but you should find the sweet spot in "your" price range. These super expensive stuff is 99% not worth it, unless money is no objekt.


----------



## Bonddam

What is the power of FA-12?
I owned the Formula S which was single ended design I'd like a comparison to FA-10 and 12.
If Flux's amp is OMG level of SQ for $750 question does it beat Headamp gsx-mini for price ratio?


----------



## NickT23

tesox said:


> OMG .....
> You should know that the quality of a Headphone is not defined by its price. Thats sounds like "Orpheus is the best Headphone because its the most expensive..."  and so on.
> This is exactly why saadi703 does not buy a 5000K amp. Keep your car and don't waste your money for a luxury product wich has a REALLY bad price performance ratio.
> For example: I own some ~1-2K Planars like Audeze LCD-3 (2018) and HEXv2 and others. Recently I purchased a Quad Era-1 wich is around 800 and it  bests them all in many terms. NO offend but you should find the sweet spot in "your" price range. These super expensive stuff is 99% not worth it, unless money is no objekt.


Am sorry to say but it is. What I evaluate is based on objective findings and statement to proof my overall accuracy of technical evaluation. My evaluation is based on objective findings with measurement and blind test, not my preference. Also take not that there are many headphones that are more expensive and I considered as objectively superior are not necessary to my preference but rather there are more affordable cans are preferable to me, and in my opinion sounds better. For example, what do you considered as better sounding ? (not going to start the argument and facts what is best, maybe I would post in a new thread). Not going into details but take one example, the SR-009 in my opinion, is the most hype and overrated sound, mostly not impress most probably am not using the best energizer so who knows. However, there are no headphone so far in the market come close or equal and there are few, but with direct A/B testing none can come equally close when it comes to transparency and resolution, the micro detail and speed is something to die for, just superior technology, period. But just because its the best or better objective sounding, its matter of preference and am not impress but I still considered one of the best. Different preference of music genre and tuning of whether they can feel to the music will varies across person to person. Reasoning for me, is that the timbre of electrostatic weakness of dryness, and the brightness imbalance in the treble response in the presence of bright recording while low end and bass response is lacking to other flagships. Every price category has specific sound category and technical performance that varies with price. 

Also, I dont look at price per performance. Even when you take HD650 as price per performance and many people considered as affordable hifi that money can but and to me the HD 650 is known as 'consumer headphone'. However, to me the HD650 is not just price per performance but rather a specific signature where the intimate mid range and veil and smooth mids are something unique that not many high end headphone can replicate. Many reviews and opinion usually not trying to say one is better over the other because many consumer does not have much knowledge regarding audio and does not want to mislead them. 

Now regarding to your comment, you are RIGHT ! nothing to argue. However, the problem with me is that my expectation is to high and most headphone below $2000 are not to my expectation unless they are unique and more to my preference. Like the LCD-3 too dark and tonally off unless they like it and HEXv2, does not sound like their price point and does not do anything special. But this statement I made are subjective speaking now. And yes super expensive stuff is 99% not worth it, in fact almost none of them are worth it. Orphues is not just sound quality but rather the experience. Also, the problem is that 1-2k headphone, do not sound like 3k and not detail enough. Sorry to sound like an asshole, but its TRUE !


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> They have not named it yet but they are calling it Volot. I asked them about this product back in April before ordering FA-10 and they told me it might take another couple of months and then I asked them the price for it and they said that they have not priced it officially yet but it would be 3-3.5k. Here is the link of their Facebook page:
> https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/518195208721498/?d=n


I wonder how does the FA-10 compete with the Volot then........


----------



## NickT23

passernger10000 said:


> So, how many people here actually own a Flux Labs FA-10 or 12?


So far as I know it, there 2 or 3 people owns it. 2 people owns FA-10 and 1 owns FA-12. I will be getting the FCN-10


----------



## passernger10000

NickT23 said:


> So far as I know it, there 2 or 3 people owns it. 2 people owns FA-10 and 1 owns FA-12. I will be getting the FCN-10


In chatting with Flux Labs they seemed confident that FA-12 was powerful enough for Argons and they were definitely pushing me towards the FA-12. Thinking we need quantify the difference between these two amps. It's clear the FA-10 is more transparent (more power) while the FA-12 is pleasantly colored. Maybe we need to find and join a Russian forum?


----------



## NickT23

passernger10000 said:


> In chatting with Flux Labs they seemed confident that FA-12 was powerful enough for Argons and they were definitely pushing me towards the FA-12. Thinking we need quantify the difference between these two amps. It's clear the FA-10 is more transparent (more power) while the FA-12 is pleasantly colored. Maybe we need to find and join a Russian forum?


What Russian forum that you speak of ? 

Yes, can tell the FA-12 able to push Argons. Give you a thicker, more bodied sound and also power sufficient.


----------



## passernger10000

NickT23 said:


> What Russian forum that you speak of ?
> 
> Yes, can tell the FA-12 able to push Argons. Give you a thicker, more bodied sound and also power sufficient.


That was a joke, guess its not very funny.


----------



## passernger10000

I'm in, FA-12 ordering within this month.


----------



## NickT23

passernger10000 said:


> I'm in, FA-12 ordering within this month.


Hi it is funny ! So why you go for FA-12 ?


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> I wonder how does the FA-10 compete with the Volot then........


We will see once it comes out in the market. If they had it available at the same time then I might have gone with Volot although the difference in sound won’t be as much as to justify the price difference between the two. Also Flux is kind of unknown to me so better to take less risk 750 vs 3k


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> We will see once it comes out in the market. If they had it available at the same time then I might have gone with Volot although the difference in sound won’t be as much as to justify the price difference between the two. Also Flux is kind of unknown to me so better to take less risk 750 vs 3k


Thats the problem. And also, bias review !


----------



## passernger10000 (Jun 15, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Hi it is funny ! So why you go for FA-12 ?


Nothing like like a balanced Class A amp, so its got to be the FA-12, I love tubes too but I grew up in a recording studio surrounded by Class A gear and it was always my favorite with the exception of mixed Class A and Tube. I don't care about distortion whatsoever, so perhaps I am not a true audiophile but Class A done right is really a lot of fun.


----------



## NickT23

passernger10000 said:


> Nothing like like a balanced Class A amp, so its got to be the FA-12, I love tubes too but I grew up in a recording studio surrounded by Class A gear and it was always my favorite with the exception of mixed Class A and Tube. I don't care about distortion whatsoever, so perhaps I am not a true audiophile but Class done right is really a lot of fun.


Then why FA-12 over FA-10 ? If you are talking about value, the FA-12 is competing with the Rebel Class A Amp (The green amplifier).


----------



## passernger10000

NickT23 said:


> Then why FA-12 over FA-10 ? If you are talking about value, the FA-12 is competing with the Rebel Class A Amp (The green amplifier).


FA-12S is the direct competitor for the Rebel Amp but we do not know much about that yet, but to be honest the Rebel is really interesting as well and its great to see products coming out that have strong character.


----------



## XVampireX (Jun 15, 2020)

passernger10000 said:


> In chatting with Flux Labs they seemed confident that FA-12 was powerful enough for Argons and they were definitely pushing me towards the FA-12. Thinking we need quantify the difference between these two amps. It's clear the FA-10 is more transparent (more power) while the FA-12 is pleasantly colored. Maybe we need to find and join a Russian forum?



Just remember that Ukraine is not Russia, k? (And official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian which is not Russian)
And AFAIK, they've just started production fairly recently there isn't much in terms of reviews of the amps, they are waiting for people to post in different forums so you might or might not find it in a Russian language forum.
Regarding Volot, they told me it should be out soon enough. (So yeah, it's not out just yet).


----------



## dolordonpanda (Jun 15, 2020)

i am more interested  in the fa-12s cause of the form factor and probably verstile usage between headphone and iems


----------



## NickT23

dolordonpanda said:


> i am more interested  in the fa-12s cause of the form factor and probably verstile usage between headphone and iems


Well meaning you dont need balance and better performance/measurements. But will still be powerful. It would be nice if they could make FA-10/12 variant similar size as the FA-12S


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> Just remember that Ukraine is not Russia, k? (And official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian which is not Russian)
> And AFAIK, they've just started production fairly recently there isn't much in terms of reviews of the amps, they are waiting for people to post in different forums so you might or might not find it in a Russian language forum.
> Regarding Volot, they told me it should be out soon enough. (So yeah, it's not out just yet).


Like he or she said, its a joke. Are you interested in Flux Amp ?


----------



## XVampireX

NickT23 said:


> Like he or she said, its a joke. Are you interested in Flux Amp ?



Why are you asking me this?
And I haven't seen that person saying anything about a joke.


----------



## NickT23

Because you are on this thread so I assume you are interested, thats why i asked. Also most people here on this thread, are 90% commited on buying it. Just saying )

Read that person comment towards me. He or she said it was a joke.


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> Why are you asking me this?
> And I haven't seen that person saying anything about a joke.



Because you are on this thread so I assume you are interested, thats why i asked. Also most people here on this thread, are 90% commited on buying it. Just saying )

Read that person comment towards me. He or she said it was a joke.


----------



## XVampireX

NickT23 said:


> Because you are on this thread so I assume you are interested, thats why i asked. Also most people here on this thread, are 90% commited on buying it. Just saying )
> 
> Read that person comment towards me. He or she said it was a joke.



I have several reasons why I'm here in this topic/thread. I'm Ukrainian born though I live in Israel, and I support Ukraine.
I am personally acquainted with the devs/engineers (with the co-founders of the company) who also have additionally a Personal Audio chain store in Ukraine.
I have also had a chance to listen to Solid One model back in the day, it was sounding really great. So I'm sure these new amps are going to be sounding amazing.
Also have a friend who "Pulled the Trigger" on the FA-10 for his HE-6 (not SE, AFAIK) still waiting for his as well but maybe I'll get him to post his impressions when he does


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> I have several reasons why I'm here in this topic/thread. I'm Ukrainian born though I live in Israel, and I support Ukraine.
> I am personally acquainted with the devs/engineers (with the co-founders of the company) who also have additionally a Personal Audio chain store in Ukraine.
> I have also had a chance to listen to Solid One model back in the day, it was sounding really great. So I'm sure these new amps are going to be sounding amazing.
> Also have a friend who "Pulled the Trigger" on the FA-10 for his HE-6 (not SE, AFAIK) still waiting for his as well but maybe I'll get him to post his impressions when he does


So you only get Ukrainian stuff ? Very patriotic !


----------



## XVampireX

NickT23 said:


> So you only get Ukrainian stuff ? Very patriotic !



Not yet, but my DAC and Amp that you see in my signature have been bought from said people (And Master 9 amp that I still have) 
Though I would like to have a more Ukrainian setup, that's true. Volot amp is something that I'm looking forward to though based on early chassis that I've seen, it didn't look well, I guess that's why they delayed it as well (It was announced last year you can watch it on their Facebook page)


----------



## VitalyDon (Jun 15, 2020)

Guys, please, does anyone know what are the figures for the power output at Low and Medium gains in FA-10 / FCN-10?

And what's the range for incoming voltage for their AUX inputs from an external amp or DAC?


----------



## Bonddam

I'd like the power figure for the FA-12 as I can't get it from Flux in a email. They just won't say it. I gotta know if the 12 is going to be good with HEDD and 1266 or am I needing the 10. I was hoping for the warmth of the 12.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 15, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> I'd like the power figure for the FA-12 as I can't get it from Flux in a email. They just won't say it. I gotta know if the 12 is going to be good with HEDD and 1266 or am I needing the 10. I was hoping for the warmth of the 12.


As per their website:
32 Ohm: 2600mW RMS per channel
50 Ohm: 1700mW RMS per channel
300 Ohm: 360mW RMS per channels


----------



## saadi703

VitalyDon said:


> Guys, please, does anyone know what are the figures for the power output at Low and Medium gains in FA-10 / FCN-10?
> 
> And what's the range for incoming voltage for their AUX inputs from an external amp or DAC?



As per their website
Power:
32 Ohm: 16W RMS per channel,
300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel,
600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel

Gain:
Low: 14dB, Medium: 20dB, High: 25.3dB


----------



## VitalyDon

*Saadi703*, thank you.
Do I understand it right that, if 25,3 dB / 14 dB = 1,8 then power output at Low gain at 32 Ohm will be 16 W / 1,8 ≈ 8,8 W? Or are my calculations wrong?


----------



## teknorob23

Just of 100 hours in with FA12 and couple of things to report. First i find very little loss in transparency compared to listening straight out the Hugo2, second this amp is pretty linear (in a good way), third i'm finding it pretty neutral with hint of warmth which just helps shape the notes and give them body, especially in the low end- mids, but yet still the top end is airy with plenty of snap and clarity. The sound has altered with run in, mainly again in the low end, where there was i tiny bit of bass bloat to begin with. This has gone and decay has shortened, sounds spot on now and the pace has picked up little too. Vitaliy at FLA recommends 200 hrs for the presentation to completely settle down, so i'm going to hold off a little longer before i share more detailed impressions. I'm listening a good 3 hours a night, which is not something i've done in a while, so the signs are good, right now it's Regis's comeback album which a techno/IDM tour de force, and if your that way inclined its 100% worth a listen


----------



## rmsanger

Any impressions yet with the FA-10?  Especially with the summit level or near level HPs?  Really want to hear some impressions on how this pairs with a hard to hps.

Would also love to see ASR measure it to see the real metrics & output along with the poetry from headfi.


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> Any impressions yet with the FA-10?  Especially with the summit level or near level HPs?  Really want to hear some impressions on how this pairs with a hard to hps.
> 
> Would also love to see ASR measure it to see the real metrics & output along with the poetry from headfi.


Sorry Amir would not measure such amplifier unless the community in ASR forum request and there are demand for such measurements to take place. Furthermore, he does not review class A and other topologies but rather single wire gain amplifiers. This is because there is no point on conducting measurements due to the fact that Class A in particular will always lose even to cheap amplifier. Two typologies design are different.


----------



## saadi703

Finally received my FA-10 today.
When I ordered the FA-10 it was already on back order so took one month to manufacture and one week in shipping. It finally reached today.

Took some photos and sharing here while spending some time with the amp.


----------



## rmsanger

NickT23 said:


> Sorry Amir would not measure such amplifier unless the community in ASR forum request and there are demand for such measurements to take place. Furthermore, he does not review class A and other topologies but rather single wire gain amplifiers. This is because there is no point on conducting measurements due to the fact that Class A in particular will always lose even to cheap amplifier. Two typologies design are different.



that’s too bad I sure would like the thd sinad voltage and power of the FA 10 run through his tools.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Finally received my FA-10 today.
> When I ordered the FA-10 it was already on back order so took one month to manufacture and one week in shipping. It finally reached today.
> 
> Took some photos and sharing here while spending some time with the amp.


Hello ! Are you sure that was photo taken ? looks very stunning and professional ? You use proper camera ?


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> that’s too bad I sure would like the thd sinad voltage and power of the FA 10 run through his tools.


If someone from USA likes and bought the FA-10, then that person could ship to him on a loan. Since shipping cost there is lower. Of course if that person willing to do that. Flux amp is not popular anyway !


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Hello ! Are you sure that was photo taken ? looks very stunning and professional ? You use proper camera ?


Thanks. Yes, proper camera with proper lighting. I am not bad at taking photos.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Thanks. Yes, proper camera with proper lighting. I am not bad at taking photos.


Yes you are not bad. The other guys took very nice pic as well.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Yes you are not bad. The other guys took very nice pic as well.


Other guys? Of course, I am not the only one in the world who knows how to take photos


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Other guys? Of course, I am not the only one in the world who knows how to take photos


Looking forward to your impression. I feel pathetic as am unable to help anyone based on my impression. I dont get to demo it.


----------



## tholt (Jun 20, 2020)

From yesterday's FB post.... Colors! I wonder if these are available now? I think I like all of them more than plain black.

EDIT: Wow, just noticed the screws match too!


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 20, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Looking forward to your impression. I feel pathetic as am unable to help anyone based on my impression. I dont get to demo it.


I can not give audiophile type of impressions and I am pretty raw when it comes down to impressions. Sorry for any spelling mistakes or grammatical mistakes as I am not going to read my post again to correct problems as it is too long and it is not fun to read your own post 

First of all, I want to congratulate all who have bought FA-10 or FCN-10 as they have made good decision and I hope that they would have great time listening to this amp.

A little background of my existing DAC / amps: I do not have many but I used Topping D90 as my primary DAC and I am using Monoprice Monolith THX 887 as my primary amp and I use iFi iDSD micro Black Label as portable DAC/amp with my phone when I am just want to lay down somewhere in the house and I do not want to sit at one place. I was pretty happy with all of them until I bought Hifiman Susvara and I felt that Hifiman Susvara can do more than what Monolith 887 is extracting from it. 887 was able to drive my other headphones fine such as Hifiman Arya, Sennheiser HD800S, Focal Elex, AKG K702 etc. I was pretty happy with it.

Initial Impression of FA-10: I am constantly using it from the moment I have received it and it's been 7-8 hours already. When I plugged everything in and put on the Susvara (for which I bought this amp) then straight away I noticed no distortion / clipping in high gain mode which 887 suffers from because of its design and DROP's THX 789 is same as well. The other things that I have noticed are below:


Mids: It has nicer / fuller / natural sounding mid range as compared to the THX amps and this is a welcome addition and I love it.
Bass: The bass has nice punch and slam as compared to THX amps. Not sure it is because of the extra power that the amp has, or for being class A, or the bass is little boasted (not sure) but it is sure nice and welcome addition for me. This is what was missing from Susvara + 887 pairing. Although Susvara was still able to slam harder than Arya on 887 as well but still I felt that it can do more and I was right. Arya, HD800s and other headphones have also benefited from this and exhibit little but noticeable harder slam when paired with FA-10. Some say that FA-10 is neutral but the question is what is neutral? How do you define neutral and in relation to what? Anyways, neutral or not, I love it.
Treble: The treble has all the detail but without the sharp edges and initially it would appear to you that it might not have the same detail as 887 but when you analyze closer than you would realize that it does not lack detail in the treble but rather treble is sweater than THX amps and does not have sharp edges. Depending upon you it can be a good thing or bad, but personally for me it is a good thing as it compliments my THX amp. Also it make the listening experience much less fatiguing over the longer period of time. Although the treble is not as textured or defined as THX amps but it has good balance of sharpness and detail. It is different from THX so they compliment each other in that department. It does not sound dark or anything like that at all but a more pleasing and agreeable treble which makes listening to some of the aggressive treble recordings possible. This amp makes listening to my HD800s much more bearable, thanks to the smoother treble. Everything is a compromise in the world of Hifi so up to you which compromise you are willing to make or buy both type of amps.
As I stated before, there is no distortion / clipping in high gain mode which is the problem with 887, 789 and 888 etc. This is what I wanted and I am happy to hear the lack of clipping / distortion.
If you have any doubt about powering any sort of headphone then let me tell you that it drives the hardest headphone to ear bleeding level and still there is room left. I think beyond this point you can use your headphones as speakers or see them blowing up into pieces 
The vent side (where the heat sink resides) can get warm to the touch but it does not get hot enough to make you feel uncomfortable while touching the amp but do not block the vents or put the DAC on the vents. The amp needs to vent heat (Class A). Class A devices are inefficient and thus produce more heat. In comparison the THX stays as cold to the touch as it was before use.
The change in volume is not linear and the change is more abrupt past 12 o clock.
I do not have any IEMs so I have not tried IEMs with it yet so I can not say anything about the noise floor but I have tried all of my over ear full sized headphones from HD598 (sensitive) to Susvara (Hard to drive) and I was unable to hear any noise floor even at high gain at max volume.
Yes, it is big so make sure you have enough room.
If you want powerful yet good sounding Class A amp who does not break the bank then do not sleep on this amp. Frankly what are other options you have at this price range? THX amps are powerful as well but for headphones like HE-6se / Susvara etc. you feel like that you want more. Even though I have THX 887 but I was considering to buy iFi iCan Pro but I am glad that in the meantime I came to know about this amp which is less than half the price and does the job fine. I have not heard iFi iCan Pro so I can not comment how much better or not it would be as compared to FA-10.
It is the honeymoon period so I would also share my final impressions after few days of use as well but so far I am liking it.
I have Topping A90 on it's way to me as well which I will have in 1-2 days and I will also compare this amp with A90 as well especially for hard to drive headphones.


----------



## tholt

saadi703 said:


> It is the honeymoon period so I would also share my final impressions after few days of use as well but so far I am liking it more than my THX 887.


Thanks for the post and impressions. It is early yet, so will definitely look forward to a follow up review once you have more time on it. 

Would you characterize its sound as slightly on the warm side? It doesn't sound like you think it's thin sounding, which is very good.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 20, 2020)

tholt said:


> Thanks for the post and impressions. It is early yet, so will definitely look forward to a follow up review once you have more time on it.
> 
> Would you characterize its sound as slightly on the warm side? It doesn't sound like you think it's thin sounding, which is very good.



Yes it is class A so it has that hint of warm sound. The treble is not aggressive but rather calm. It is not too sharp or too bright or harsh compared to a drier sounding amplifier. I can not listen to the aggressive music comfortably on my THX 887 whereas treble intensive music is much easier on my ears on FA-10. Although the treble is not as textured or defined as THX amps but it has good balance of sharpness and detail. It is different from THX so they compliment each other in that department which is another plus for me since I have both so I can use any of the two depending upon the tracks. It is not more of the same.

Yes it is meatier sounding amp in the mid range and bass so does not sound thin.

Let see how the Topping A90 is in comparison to THX and FA-10. I am hoping that Topping A90 would take place of my THX 887 amp and THX 887 I would use in a different setup in the living room.


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> From yesterday's FB post.... Colors! I wonder if these are available now? I think I like all of them more than plain black.
> 
> EDIT: Wow, just noticed the screws match too!


Interesting ! Now we Flux IMO are the second selling amps that able to choose variety of colours but to the extend of Geshelli Labs. 

Honestly, I wish they have more colours than this and wish they includes us with custom shades of colours, even knob colours as well as ability to remove the FLUX logo of our desire.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Yes it is class A so it has that hint of warm sound. The treble is not aggressive but rather calm. It is not too sharp or too bright or harsh compared to a drier sounding amplifier. I can not listen to the aggressive music comfortably on my THX 887 whereas treble intensive music is much easier on my ears on FA-10. Although the treble is not as textured or defined as THX amps but it has good balance of sharpness and detail. It is different from THX so they compliment each other in that department which is another plus for me since I have both so I can use any of the two depending upon the tracks. It is not more of the same.
> 
> Yes it is meatier sounding amp in the mid range and bass so does not sound thin.
> 
> Let see how the Topping A90 is in comparison to THX and FA-10. I am hoping that Topping A90 would take place of my THX 887 amp and THX 887 I would use in a different setup in the living room.


Wonder if are there any difference of the features between A90 and THX 887 ?


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Interesting ! Now we Flux IMO are the second selling amps that able to choose variety of colours but to the extend of Geshelli Labs.
> 
> Honestly, I wish they have more colours than this and wish they includes us with custom shades of colours, even knob colours as well as ability to remove the FLUX logo of our desire.


For time being, these colors are for Flux FA-12S. They confirmed on Facebook. Also at the point these photos are demonstration of opportunities and if one is so inclined then he can approach them asking for specific color and they would see if they can accommodate the request depending upon the availability.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> For time being, these colors are for Flux FA-12S. They confirmed on Facebook. Also at the point these photos are demonstration of opportunities and if one is so inclined then he can approach them asking for specific color and they would see if they can accommodate the request depending upon the availability.


You sound like you are associating with them personally along side with Sandu.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 21, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Wonder if are there any difference of the features between A90 and THX 887 ?


For me the big difference is the distortion / clipping that THX 887, 789 and 888 exhibits at high gain when using balanced cables to connect. This is due to their design. A90 has no such problem. This is huge for me as I want to use my amp in high gain mode using balanced interconnecting cables between DAC and amp. So high gain is useable on A90. For me it is huge.

A90 has preamp functionality as well.

In addition, Topping shall launch P90 which will add the functionality of connecting more devices and even extender will add two more outputs.

A90 has 4.4mm balanced output whereas 887 does not.
Low gain has less gain so better for IEMs.
Matches beautifully with D90.
More powerful than THX amps for high impedance headphones.


----------



## cfranchi

Don’t know if it is a mistake but on Flux website, Atlas is selling at 990$ !!!


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> Don’t know if it is a mistake but on Flux website, Atlas is selling at 990$ !!!


Yeah but isnt their Atlas being their flagship that cost at $3999 ? What logic is that ?


----------



## dolordonpanda (Jun 21, 2020)

i think they are building a new flagship its called volot only thing it can find about it is pitcure


----------



## XVampireX

Volot is just an Amp, Atlas is a DAC/Amp
Also, try to order, it's out of stock, that's probably the reason why it's $990 and not more 
But I've reported the problem.


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> Volot is just an Amp, Atlas is a DAC/Amp
> Also, try to order, it's out of stock, that's probably the reason why it's $990 and not more
> But I've reported the problem.


What problem is that ? Also, I doubt its $990 !


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> For time being, these colors are for Flux FA-12S. They confirmed on Facebook. Also at the point these photos are demonstration of opportunities and if one is so inclined then he can approach them asking for specific color and they would see if they can accommodate the request depending upon the availability.


It would be nice if they could expand that option across different models.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> You sound like you are associating with them personally along side with Sandu.


Lol, It is just that they are pretty good with communication and answer the questions.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> It would be nice if they could expand that option across different models.


I think they will, depending upon the demand.


----------



## passernger10000

Interesting that the single ended FA-10s has balanced in and an XLR out? How do you think that works?


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Yes it is class A so it has that hint of warm sound. The treble is not aggressive but rather calm. It is not too sharp or too bright or harsh compared to a drier sounding amplifier. I can not listen to the aggressive music comfortably on my THX 887 whereas treble intensive music is much easier on my ears on FA-10. Although the treble is not as textured or defined as THX amps but it has good balance of sharpness and detail. It is different from THX so they compliment each other in that department which is another plus for me since I have both so I can use any of the two depending upon the tracks. It is not more of the same.
> 
> Yes it is meatier sounding amp in the mid range and bass so does not sound thin.
> 
> Let see how the Topping A90 is in comparison to THX and FA-10. I am hoping that Topping A90 would take place of my THX 887 amp and THX 887 I would use in a different setup in the living room.


If possible can you try IEM at your disposable as well as hard and easy to drive cheap dynamics ?


----------



## NickT23

dolordonpanda said:


> i think they are building a new flagship its called volot only thing it can find about it is pitcure


Very interesting though, we would like to see the Volvot compare to the FA-10 in terms of sound and performance, no BS just direct facts and how much better in quantifiable terms as much as possible.


----------



## saadi703

passernger10000 said:


> Interesting that the single ended FA-10s has balanced in and an XLR out? How do you think that works?


They are there just for the sake of convenience otherwise the amp is single ended.


----------



## tholt

saadi703 said:


> They are there just for the sake of convenience otherwise the amp is single ended.


Curious if there are sonic differences using the different inputs and/or outputs. Have you tried different ones?


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 21, 2020)

tholt said:


> Curious if there are sonic differences using the different inputs and/or outputs. Have you tried different ones?


Edit: There is no sonic difference. There is no difference in terms of power and volume as well.


----------



## gancanjam

@saadi703 , when you get a chance please let us know the Topping A90 & Flux comparison. We are all ears


----------



## cfranchi

Ok Atlas at 990$ is a database issue, confirmed by Flux, too bad 
My FA-10 is shipped today, my HE6-se is tired to wait...


----------



## gancanjam

cfranchi said:


> Ok Atlas at 990$ is a database issue, confirmed by Flux, too bad
> My FA-10 is shipped today, my HE6-se is tired to wait...



Ouch, now I am just $3000 short on buying the Atlas … LOL .. For a moment, had built high hopes to get the Atlas


----------



## NickT23

gancanjam said:


> @saadi703 , when you get a chance please let us know the Topping A90 & Flux comparison. We are all ears


Honestly way before reviews and impression, I already know how it sounds and actually differ. However, love to hear people's opinion and personal impression even if they are unable to describe accurately or mistakenly wrong. Could even give a more accurate impression than most people but of course am not as fortunate than most people on this forum. Looking forward as well.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Edit: There is no sonic difference. There is no difference in terms of power and volume as well.


What about hard to drive plannars ?


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> What about hard to drive plannars ?


What about them? The question was whether there is any sonic difference between the single ended and balanced inputs and outputs.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Honestly way before reviews and impression, I already know how it sounds and actually differ. However, love to hear people's opinion and personal impression even if they are unable to describe accurately or mistakenly wrong. Could even give a more accurate impression than most people but of course am not as fortunate than most people on this forum. Looking forward as well.


Calling someone wrong or unable to describe sound just on the bases that someone's impression does not line up with how you "think" that a certain device sound's. wow!


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> Calling someone wrong or unable to describe sound just on the bases that someone's impression does not line up with how you "think" that a certain device sound's. wow!


Never claimed anyone is wrong. Am just saying if so happen if they are objectively wrong. Like for example calling warm headphone nuetral for instance.


----------



## saadi703

gancanjam said:


> @saadi703 , when you get a chance please let us know the Topping A90 & Flux comparison. We are all ears



I have received my Topping A90 in the morning and spent quite a number of hours listen to it and comparing it with Flux FA-10 and Monoprice Monolith THX 887. I have my initial impressions and I can see how all three compares but I will give it some more time.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Never claimed anyone is wrong. Am just saying if so happen if they are objectively wrong. Like for example calling warm headphone nuetral for instance.


What is warm and what is neutral? How do you define them?


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> What is warm and what is neutral? How do you define them?


Do you consider HD600 to be warm ? If so that is your opinion, but in reality its nuetral. Also graph able to distinct it but people perceived things differently nonetheless. Through blind A/B test will able to proof the result. Someone will need to be the moderation of the A/B test to avoid false complacency and biasness. 

Also, am not referring to people definition of warm and nuetral. And also, there are many ways to define it not necessary they have to follow all the harman target of FR.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Do you consider HD600 to be warm ? If so that is your opinion, but in reality its nuetral. Also graph able to distinct it but people perceived things differently nonetheless. Through blind A/B test will able to proof the result. Someone will need to be the moderation of the A/B test to avoid false complacency and biasness.
> 
> Also, am not referring to people definition of warm and nuetral. And also, there are many ways to define it not necessary they have to follow all the harman target of FR.


I thought we are discussing the amp in this thread, not the headphones. I did my A/B testing on the amps and I do not "think" based on assumption that they sound certain way. Opinions are always biased as they are based on personal preferences. Even the harman target is listener's "preference" curve. I have never heard HD600 so I can not comment just based on looking at the graphs, graphs does not tell you that how a particular headphone sounds until you hear them in person.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jun 22, 2020)

Not in needs of amp, but currently eyeing flux since few weeks ago. The price, parts, and raw power indeed interesting. Disappoint with few of THX amp under $1000, so perhaps Flux could be a better choice here. Will monitor for more impression, thanks in advance guys  



NickT23 said:


> Never claimed anyone is wrong. Am just saying if so happen if they are objectively wrong. Like for example calling warm headphone nuetral for instance.



Neutral word always tricky to use. Anyway, there are no dead neutral headphones in the market, as each of them always tilt to something (even slight), depend on the listener and set-up.

Additional note, HD600 is relatively warm compare to something like Sony CD900st, which is, a headphone that I think closer to neutral than the Senny.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

cfranchi said:


> Ok Atlas at 990$ is a database issue, confirmed by Flux, too bad



Caught that 4 days ago and emailed them. Yes it was a database issue.
Inquired also for Volot and its accompanying DAC. Here is the email:


_Hello Michael

Everything is well, 
Thank you for the enquiry 

Just checked, sorry to tell you that was database error, already write our tech guy to fix it. 

About upcoming VOLOT, it will be presented in a few month or so. 
Our new DAC model is under engineering, I think it will be presented in 4-6 months 

Stay with us and watch for updates. Sorry if any confusion caused by Atlas price issue

Keep in touch, 
Vitaliy_


----------



## wazzupi

saadi703 said:


> I thought we are discussing the amp in this thread, not the headphones. I did my A/B testing on the amps and I do not "think" based on assumption that they sound certain way. Opinions are always biased as they are based on personal preferences. Even the harman target is listener's "preference" curve. I have never heard HD600 so I can not comment just based on looking at the graphs, graphs does not tell you that how a particular headphone sounds until you hear them in person.


why you tease us bro, how is the A90 vs FA-10


----------



## Kevin Lee

Personlly hope the VOLOT  is a stremer with 9038pro and full mqa unfold


----------



## funkur (Jun 22, 2020)

First post here. High time to pay it forward to you guys/gals.  While I’m not skilled in posting impressions, I paid for undergrad selling HiFi and HT back in the early 00’s (Krell, Vienna, Focal, REL, Martin Logan, Denon, Mirage, JBL Synthesis, B&K, Crestron, etc) at Tweeter. 

Received my FA-10 today. Heading to the beach in the morning, but will post some notes upon my return / burn in. 

First listen: wow!  So clean, dynamic, and dead quiet.  Puts the Heron 5 to shame and poops all over the RME’s output - but that’s why I ordered it!

Associated gear:

ZMF Verite C
Audeze LCD-XC
(Wireworld nano eclipse SE cables)

Hagerman Tuba - NOS Ei Tubes
Airist Heron 5

RME ADI-2-DAC FS (latest version)
NuForce DAC-80 w/ Schiit Eitr

Auralic Aires Mini
Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra
Sony SACD-9000ES

Random mix of Analysis Plus, WireWorld, Audioquest, iFi, old Monster power/audio cables/conditioners.


----------



## XVampireX

Kevin Lee said:


> Personlly hope the VOLOT  is a stremer with 9038pro and full mqa unfold



It's not a hybrid, it's a pure amp.


----------



## XVampireX (Jun 22, 2020)

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Caught that 4 days ago and emailed them. Yes it was a database issue.
> Inquired also for Volot and its accompanying DAC. Here is the email:
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm, weird, they told me it's gonna be some time earlier than that....
Oh nvm, didn't know they are also making a new DAC besides Volot.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 22, 2020)

It is kind of strange the Flux FA-10 is supposed to be more powerful amplifier as compared to Topping A90 and yet if volume matched then the volume nob on FA-10 is between 2 and 3 o clock position whereas on A90 it is 1 o clock position. I think the explanation is probably that the volume changes are not linear on FA-10 and I get very little volume until 12 o clock position and then it start changes quickly.

This is all fine but I found it strange that in headfonia review of FA-10 he had the volume set to 12 o clock and some time little more (for Susvara) based on his preference but I get very little volume at 12 o clock and nowhere close to listening level. Not sure it is my amp volume nob or it is supposed to be like this.


----------



## tholt

saadi703 said:


> This is all fine but I found it strange that in headfonia review of FA-10 he had the volume set to 12 o clock and some time little more (for Susvara) based on his preference but I get very little volume at 12 o clock and nowhere close to listening level. Not sure it is my amp volume nob or it is supposed to be like this.


So you have to put the volume dial at 2 or 3 oclock for decent volume, even in high gain?


----------



## saadi703

tholt said:


> So you have to put the volume dial at 2 or 3 oclock for decent volume, even in high gain?


3 o clock becomes too loud for me to sustain so never went to 3 or past 3. To me the weird part is that the change is volume is very little until 12 o clock on all gain levels and then it start to change very quickly once it is past 12 o clock. It seems this was not the case on the review unit as the reviewer was able to gain substantial amount of volume using the same headphone.
I have tried Arya and HD800S as well in mid gain and high gain as well. The volume is pretty low until 12 o clock and once it crosses 12 o clock and reaches 1 o clock then volume quickly become sufficient for my listening.


----------



## saadi703

funkur said:


> First post here. High time to pay it forward to you guys/gals.  While I’m not skilled in posting impressions, I paid for undergrad selling HiFi and HT back in the early 00’s (Krell, Vienna, Focal, REL, Martin Logan, Denon, Mirage, JBL Synthesis, B&K, Crestron, etc) at Tweeter.
> 
> Received my FA-10 today. Heading to the beach in the morning, but will post some notes upon my return / burn in.
> 
> ...



Do you also have this volume issue that until 12 o clock you get very little change in volume and after 12 o clock small changes result in big volume increments?


----------



## wazzupi

saadi703 said:


> It is kind of strange the Flux FA-10 is supposed to be more powerful amplifier as compared to Topping A90 and yet if volume matched then the volume nob on FA-10 is between 2 and 3 o clock position whereas on A90 it is 1 o clock position. I think the explanation is probably that the volume changes are not linear on FA-10 and I get very little volume until 12 o clock position and then it start changes quickly.
> 
> This is all fine but I found it strange that in headfonia review of FA-10 he had the volume set to 12 o clock and some time little more (for Susvara) based on his preference but I get very little volume at 12 o clock and nowhere close to listening level. Not sure it is my amp volume nob or it is supposed to be like this.


buttt how do they sound !!


----------



## tholt

saadi703 said:


> 3 o clock becomes too loud for me to sustain so never went to 3 or past 3. To me the weird part is that the change is volume is very little until 12 o clock on all gain levels and then it start to change very quickly once it is past 12 o clock.


That sounds like a design decision on how they ramped gain. Maybe on easier to drive HPs would be more gradual? But kind of strange, sounds like you essentially get between 12 and 3? I'd ask Flux about that


----------



## saadi703

tholt said:


> That sounds like a design decision on how they ramped gain. Maybe on easier to drive HPs would be more gradual? But kind of strange, sounds like you essentially get between 12 and 3? I'd ask Flux about that


Yes, may be this is the case. I will also check with them.


----------



## saadi703

wazzupi said:


> why you tease us bro, how is the A90 vs FA-10


lol, I was just trying to be caution as I might be called wrong for my impressions. Anyways, no worries. I am going to post my impressions in the below post.


----------



## Era in Ear

saadi703 said:


> It is kind of strange the Flux FA-10 is supposed to be more powerful amplifier as compared to Topping A90 and yet if volume matched then the volume nob on FA-10 is between 2 and 3 o clock position whereas on A90 it is 1 o clock position. I think the explanation is probably that the volume changes are not linear on FA-10 and I get very little volume until 12 o clock position and then it start changes quickly.
> 
> This is all fine but I found it strange that in headfonia review of FA-10 he had the volume set to 12 o clock and some time little more (for Susvara) based on his preference but I get very little volume at 12 o clock and nowhere close to listening level. Not sure it is my amp volume nob or it is supposed to be like this.




The operation algorithm of such a regulator does not need to be compared by the operation of the volume knob in a conventional amplifier. 

FA10 uses a digitally controlled relay control, which allows you to select a large number of steps for working with low volume and allows you to precisely adjust the level even when working with "sensitive" headphones


----------



## cfranchi

saadi703 said:


> It is kind of strange the Flux FA-10 is supposed to be more powerful amplifier as compared to Topping A90 and yet if volume matched then the volume nob on FA-10 is between 2 and 3 o clock position whereas on A90 it is 1 o clock position. I think the explanation is probably that the volume changes are not linear on FA-10 and I get very little volume until 12 o clock position and then it start changes quickly.
> 
> This is all fine but I found it strange that in headfonia review of FA-10 he had the volume set to 12 o clock and some time little more (for Susvara) based on his preference but I get very little volume at 12 o clock and nowhere close to listening level. Not sure it is my amp volume nob or it is supposed to be like this.



What is your DAC output voltage ? Can you play with it ?


----------



## saadi703

I have been using FA-10 since last 3-4 days and I have used THX 887 for good 6-7 months whereas I have used Topping A90 for one day. Here is a quick comparison / impression of FA-10, A90 and THX 887.

Let us first have a look *tonality*.
*Bass:* Both FA-10 and A90 has fantastic bass performance with great impact and slam. It is hard to pick a winner here as in some songs A90 seems to have slightly more slam and impact whereas in other FA-10 seems to have more whereas in some songs they seems on par with each other. I think you would be happy with the bass performance of anyone of them. Listening to songs like "Chocolate Chip Trip" by tool is such a fun experience on both amps. The drum hits are so intense on both the amps. THX887 falls little bit behind both of them in terms of bass performance as it lacks in punch and slam quality shown by other two amps. Bass is where FA-10 and A90 are more similar whereas they both are very different in mid range and treble areas. THX 887 bass impact can feel little plastic at times depend upon the song.

*Mid Range:* To be honest all three amps has fantastic mid range however there are differences so depending upon your preference you might like one over the other. The FA-10 has full bodies and meatier mid range as compared to the other two amps but this does not mean that other two sound thin. THX 887 has very capable mid range however A90 now trumps it in terms of mid range as it provide such detail nuances in the mid range that you notice every single subtle change. In fact, I prefer the mid range of A90 over the FA-10 because although FA-10 sound fuller and very natural but it does not present as many nuances as A90 does. A90 also appears to me more accurate in terms of how a person sounds. I played back my own voice as well as my friends and family voices as I am very familiar that how they sound in real life and to me A90 came on top. Having said that there are certain songs and singers where I prefer FA-10's full bodied and meatier presentation however in certain songs it becomes boring and monotone. Having said that, I do not have any problem with the mid range of any one of them. Fans of full bodied and meatier mid range will definitely enjoy FA-10 more. Songs like "House of Rising Sun" sounds amazing on FA-10  where the singer already has pretty fuller voice. I do not enjoy FA-10 as much on the female singers though as they appear to sound different than they normally do. If the mixing engineer has not used de-esser on the vocal or their is harshness in the vocals than FA-10 is most forgiving among all these amps and it would make small problems less noticeable.

*Treble:* This is where A90 and THX 887 are more similar and FA-10 is different. A90 is the most detailed and textured treble among all three amps. I really love the treble of A90 as it has loads of effortless detail. THX887 is the close second in terms of detail and texture. FA-10 does not lack much in detail but the leading and trailing edges of each note are smoothed out so it has less texture and hence smooth treble. I personally prefer the treble performance of A90 as the reason why I have spent thousand of dollars is to listen to a high end system which present every bit of detail and still sounds nice and A90 does that for me. Having said that for modern music with some genres like Hip-hop and R&B etc. some times you want smooth treble and this is where FA-10 shines as the treble removes all the harshness with little to no loss of detail. I personally do no listen to such genres and recording so this does not bother me. If you do not compare FA-10 with one of the most detailed amps like A90 then you would not feel that it lacks in that department either. I am using Topping D90 which is known for easy going treble so this DAC might not be good pairing with FA-10 if you want to have more textured treble. You would be more better off using any high end ESS based DAC which has little be hot treble (such as Matrix X-Sabre Pro). I think it might improve the FA-10 treble performance.

*Details and Texture: *In terms of details and textures A90 beats the other two amps where THX 887 is second. FA-10 does not lack in detail either but it has the tonality where you have to search and listen for the details whereas on other two amps such details are pretty obvious. A90 is the detail and texture monster.

*Dynamics:* All three amps are excellent for dynamics however I feel A90 win in the dynamics department as well because it feels very dynamic and engaging on almost every song whereas other two amps can be little picky and like certain type of recordings.

*Power:* In terms of power FA-10 wins however both A90 and THX 887 has more than enough power to drive any headphone even the hardest to drive headphone such as Hifiman Susvara. A90 can drive the susvara to 80-85db at 1 o clock (high gain) with enough headroom available for quiter recordings. FA-10 can also drive the Susvara to same level with volume knob betwen 2 and 3 o clock however if you further increase the volume then it can make the headphone so loud that it will become speaker but at that point you risk damaging your headphone. THX 887 has a flaw though that if you are using balanced input then it would clip and exhibit distortion in high gain mode. This is the design fault of THX 887. So you have to use unbalanced input on 887 to use high gain without clipping but this seriously decrease the headroom availability. The other two amps does not have this problem.


----------



## NickT23

NickT23 said:


> Do you consider HD600 to be warm ? If so that is your opinion, but in reality its nuetral. Also graph able to distinct it but people perceived things differently nonetheless. Through blind A/B test will able to proof the result. Someone will need to be the moderation of the A/B test to avoid false complacency and biasness.
> 
> Also, am not referring to people definition of warm and nuetral. And also, there are many ways to define it not necessary they have to follow all the harman target of FR.





saadi703 said:


> I thought we are discussing the amp in this thread, not the headphones. I did my A/B testing on the amps and I do not "think" based on assumption that they sound certain way. Opinions are always biased as they are based on personal preferences. Even the harman target is listener's "preference" curve. I have never heard HD600 so I can not comment just based on looking at the graphs, graphs does not tell you that how a particular headphone sounds until you hear them in person.


Am just stating in general. Not necessary just amps. Also there could be some who say the that the A90 is warm and most probably could be their dac is warm or some other external factors. Usually i will always find proof of why am right amd such but thats not the point. All am saying if they so happen to described it diferently from others, it does not really matter really. Thats all am saying. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> I have been using FA-10 since last 3-4 days and I have used THX 887 for good 6-7 months whereas I have used Topping A90 for one day. Here is a quick comparison / impression of FA-10, A90 and THX 887.
> 
> Let us first have a look *tonality*.
> *Bass:* Both FA-10 and A90 has fantastic bass performance with great impact and slam. It is hard to pick a winner here as in some songs A90 seems to have slightly more slam and impact whereas in other FA-10 seems to have more whereas in some songs they seems on par with each other. I think you would be happy with the bass performance of anyone of them. Listening to songs like "Chocolate Chip Trip" by tool is such a fun experience on both amps. The drum hits are so intense on both the amps. THX887 falls little bit behind both of them in terms of bass performance as it lacks in punch and slam quality shown by other two amps. Bass is where FA-10 and A90 are more similar whereas they both are very different in mid range and treble areas. THX 887 bass impact can feel little plastic at times depend upon the song.
> ...


Interesting.... no offense seems like you like A90 slightly more than FA-10. Whic one do you prefer on your susvara ? How does it performs on both single ended and balance configuration on both amps ? 

Is it good enough to own both amps ? Alsoo, i assume you use toping D90 as your main dac for your FA-10 ?


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 23, 2020)

Era in Ear said:


> The operation algorithm of such a regulator does not need to be compared by the operation of the volume knob in a conventional amplifier.
> 
> FA10 uses a digitally controlled relay control, which allows you to select a large number of steps for working with low volume and allows you to precisely adjust the level even when working with "sensitive" headphones


Yes, it is relay controlled and I can hear the clicks while changing the volume. Another way to handle to problem is to have lower low gain value instead of using 14db as low gain. Yes larger number of steps is understandable but volume variation should be linear over those larger steps however this is not the case. The problem is that change in volume is not llinear and this is true even if I used more "sensitive" headphone such as Sennheisser HD598, Sennheisser HD206, Focal Elex, AKG K702. Same story with harder to drive headphones such as HD800S, Arya and Susvara.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> lol, I was just trying to be caution as I might be called wrong for my impressions. Anyways, no worries. I am going to post my impressions in the below post.


Am I might be the one as you were referring ?


----------



## cfranchi

Interesting comparison between FA-10 and A90 : 2 different philosophy.

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-review-resetting-the-trend/


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Interesting.... no offense seems like you like A90 slightly more than FA-10. Whic one do you prefer on your susvara ? How does it performs on both single ended and balance configuration on both amps ?
> 
> Is it good enough to own both amps ? Alsoo, i assume you use toping D90 as your main dac for your FA-10 ?


Yes, I am using Topping D90 as DAC because the other DAC I have is iFi Micro iDSD black label which is nowhere as good as topping D90 so I only use it for portable use. Yes, I like A90 more as it appeals me more when I use it with any of my headphones. That is only when I compare both amps otherwise FA-10 is great. D90 + A90 combo is hard to beat in terms of price and performance. I prefer A90 on Susvara mostly however there are certain recordings where I like FA-10 more because of meatier mid range or calmer treble. FA-10 is same weather you use single ended or balance inputs / outputs whereas there is difference in power on A90 and the balanced configuration will have more power. A90 is balanced amp whereas FA-10 is single ended so there are differences on A90 between single ended and balanced configurations whereas FA-10 has no difference.

Yes if one is willing to spend money then differences between A90 and FA-10 are significant enough to own both.


----------



## saadi703

cfranchi said:


> Interesting comparison between FA-10 and A90 : 2 different philosophy.
> 
> https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-review-resetting-the-trend/


Yes, he is pretty spot on. These are two different philosophies and I bought the A90 only after reading this and having discussion with Sandu. He did this comparison on my request and he has refereed my name in the comparison as well. When he got A90 for review, at that time I was already waiting for my FA-10 to arrive but I had my eyes on A90 as well after hearing all good things about it. So I asked him to compared A90 with FA-10. Now after owning both of these amps, I agree with his point of two different philosophies.


----------



## rmsanger (Jun 23, 2020)

Anybody have the FA-10 with a Abyss 1266 ?   Also any comparisons to how this sounds against other class a amps?


----------



## artist777

saadi703 said:


> *Details and Texture: *In terms of details and textures A90 beats the other two amps where THX 887 is second. FA-10 does not lack in detail either but it has the tonality where you have to search and listen for the details whereas on other two amps such details are pretty obvious.



Regarding the darkened high frequencies of FA-10. That is a big advantage relative to other devices. Those, when the detail of high frequencies is at a high level, but there is no dominance of the high-frequency range over the rest part of the spectrum, which creates the effect of a wider dynamic range. Such high-frequency sound is characteristic of a very expensive devices


----------



## cfranchi (Jun 23, 2020)

My FA-10 has been shipped yesterday, I’ll post my impressions with HE6se and Mojo as DAC.
Seems that Topping is also a very good value  with very correct price. I’m tired of gears costing thousands and thousands!


----------



## cfranchi

cfranchi said:


> Interesting comparison between FA-10 and A90 : 2 different philosophy.
> 
> https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-review-resetting-the-trend/



I have re-read the comparison, I guess my taste will accommodate FA-10 better, also with HE6se it should be a wonderful pairing I guess.


----------



## cfranchi

I have also ask Flux about their upcoming DAC, it should be something in the same price range than FA-10.


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> I have also ask Flux about their upcoming DAC, it should be something in the same price range than FA-10.


Interesting, if any update post here. Because Vitalie always dont have time to reply the same email always. Till now, I have not received a respond from him usually !


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> My FA-10 has been shipped yesterday, I’ll post my impressions with HE6se and Mojo as DAC.
> Seems that Topping is also a very good value  with very correct price. I’m tired of gears costing thousands and thousands!


Are there any difference of thousand of dollars gears ? Which amplifier did you demo ?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

saadi703 said:


> I have been using FA-10 since last 3-4 days and I have used THX 887 for good 6-7 months whereas I have used Topping A90 for one day. Here is a quick comparison / impression of FA-10, A90 and THX 887.
> 
> Let us first have a look *tonality*.
> *Bass:* Both FA-10 and A90 has fantastic bass performance with great impact and slam. It is hard to pick a winner here as in some songs A90 seems to have slightly more slam and impact whereas in other FA-10 seems to have more whereas in some songs they seems on par with each other. I think you would be happy with the bass performance of anyone of them. Listening to songs like "Chocolate Chip Trip" by tool is such a fun experience on both amps. The drum hits are so intense on both the amps. THX887 falls little bit behind both of them in terms of bass performance as it lacks in punch and slam quality shown by other two amps. Bass is where FA-10 and A90 are more similar whereas they both are very different in mid range and treble areas. THX 887 bass impact can feel little plastic at times depend upon the song.
> ...



So compare to A90, the Flux is at smoother / more forgiving / meatier side. That's nice to know, thanks!

Based on your previous post, I think Flux use not gradual volume control, to accommodate many sensitive headphones out there (have more room to move the knob), same like what Wells Audio do to Milo's potentiometer. About difference in volume with headfonia review, could be because of different voltage output from dac.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 23, 2020)

TheMiddleSky said:


> So compare to A90, the Flux is at smoother / more forgiving / meatier side. That's nice to know, thanks!
> 
> Based on your previous post, I think Flux use not gradual volume control, to accommodate many sensitive headphones out there (have more room to move the knob), same like what Wells Audio do to Milo's potentiometer. About difference in volume with headfonia review, could be because of different voltage output from dac.


You are very welcome. Yes, this how best I can describe this amp. I love the sound as well and compliments my other amp. Very happy with it.

The reviewer used Topping D90 (the same DAC that I have) and Matrix Element M and both output 4v and 2v through XLR and RCA output just like most consumer DACs. I have varying degree of sensitive headphones and everyone gave me very little volume until 12 o clock. Not a very elegant solution even if it is done for low sensitivity headphones.

Personally not a big deal for me but the idea was to let everyone know about it as this is purpose of this thread.

I will also speak to flux about it.


----------



## saadi703

cfranchi said:


> I have re-read the comparison, I guess my taste will accommodate FA-10 better, also with HE6se it should be a wonderful pairing I guess.


Good choice. It has muscle to drive the HE6se to fullest and still breaking no sweat. FA-10 is a very good amp for what it is. It sounds very refined.


----------



## saadi703

cfranchi said:


> My FA-10 has been shipped yesterday, I’ll post my impressions with HE6se and Mojo as DAC.
> Seems that Topping is also a very good value  with very correct price. I’m tired of gears costing thousands and thousands!


Yes, good to see that now good stuff is coming down in prices. Price of FA-10 is very attractive as well for such a powerful amp. Topping is doing great as well to bring good gear at more affordable prices.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 23, 2020)

artist777 said:


> Regarding the darkened high frequencies of FA-10. That is a big advantage relative to other devices. Those, when the detail of high frequencies is at a high level, but there is no dominance of the high-frequency range over the rest part of the spectrum, which creates the effect of a wider dynamic range. Such high-frequency sound is characteristic of a very expensive devices


That’s true that FA-10 punches well above it’s weight or lets call it price tag. Great amp with such power and sound at an affordable price. I wish Flux good luck for their future endeavors. I hope more choices comes to market.


----------



## teknorob23

saadi703 said:


> Do you also have this volume issue that until 12 o clock you get very little change in volume and after 12 o clock small changes result in big volume increments?



This sounds a bit weird have you spoken to FLA yet just to check. The volume is pretty much linear with my FA12. Obvs maybe be different with Fa10 but might be worth a conversation with vitaly.


----------



## saadi703

teknorob23 said:


> This sounds a bit weird have you spoken to FLA yet just to check. The volume is pretty much linear with my FA12. Obvs maybe be different with Fa10 but might be worth a conversation with vitaly.


I thought you have FA-10 as well.


----------



## saadi703 (Jun 24, 2020)

I have got the flux reply on the volume knob thing:

“Thank you for you questions. Let me try to explain. There are two main points what you need to understand, step raley volume control is working on exponential algorithm, so it would not be linear, that is no reason compare with regular volume knob. That point makes possible to get more steps for tune volume on starting position and work with high sensitivity headphones in more useful way. The second point is signal input level, it is also will reflect on volume position.”

This explains it, it is by design and is not supposed to be linear as it is exponential algorithm.

I really like how quickly they have always reply back to my queries. So my only small nit pick with this amp is now gone. Time to enjoy it to the fullest. Whoever receive their unit then please write your impressions. It would be interesting to hear from others about their opinions on this amp.


----------



## VitalyDon

_Waiting for my FCN-10 in the near future. Will share my impressions._


----------



## tholt

saadi703 said:


> This explains it, it is by design and is not supposed to be linear as it is exponential algorithm.
> 
> I really like how quickly they have always reply back to my queries. So my only small nit pick with this amp is now gone.


I have also found they are very responsive. I really appreciate that as it shows they are both passionate about what they do and care about their customers.

Knowing the volume pot design is helpful. However, it still changes nothing about how it works. Is it ever an issue for you having  only 12 - 3 oclock play on the dial? That's not a lot of room to rotate.


----------



## gancanjam

saadi703 said:


> I have got the flux reply on the volume knob thing:
> 
> “Thank you for you questions. Let me try to explain. There are two main points what you need to understand, step raley volume control is working on exponential algorithm, so it would not be linear, that is no reason compare with regular volume knob. That point makes possible to get more steps for tune volume on starting position and work with high sensitivity headphones in more useful way. The second point is signal input level, it is also will reflect on volume position.”
> 
> ...



Would like to echo that, Flux support is very approachable, friendly and helpful. My conversations with them were very pleasant, there was no sales push or formal talks but just simple and honest communication.


----------



## NickT23

gancanjam said:


> Would like to echo that, Flux support is very approachable, friendly and helpful. My conversations with them were very pleasant, there was no sales push or formal talks but just simple and honest communication.


Not everything is honest. They are still bias and not willing to tell the truth. But who wouldnt as a manufacturer. Also, its the usual stereotype of big audio manufacturer and small companies in audio industry. MNCs usually sales and marketing BS while small companies is all about passion and customer support. Thats why Flux customer support is good.


----------



## cfranchi

NickT23 said:


> Not everything is honest. They are still bias and not willing to tell the truth. But who wouldnt as a manufacturer. Also, its the usual stereotype of big audio manufacturer and small companies in audio industry. MNCs usually sales and marketing BS while small companies is all about passion and customer support. Thats why Flux customer support is good.



Before ordering FA-10 I was debating about FCN-10, so I asked Vitaliy from Flux about the FCN-10 DAC vs my Chord Mojo.
Here is what I think is an honest answer from Vitaliy:

« You know I didn't make A|B testing between them. But on my taste, FCN-10 DAC is a bit more musical than Mojo. I think better choice stay on Mojo, because you already have it and can use with poly to get same functionality »


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> Before ordering FA-10 I was debating about FCN-10, so I asked Vitaliy from Flux about the FCN-10 DAC vs my Chord Mojo.
> Here is what I think is an honest answer from Vitaliy:
> 
> « You know I didn't make A|B testing between them. But on my taste, FCN-10 DAC is a bit more musical than Mojo. I think better choice stay on Mojo, because you already have it and can use with poly to get same functionality »


Yeah not bad. In terms of comparison, very rare audio manufacturers are honest and caring. I should also post some other time regarding on his debate with of AKM chips and all that. I sense biasness. Thanks for posting that comment.


----------



## saadi703

tholt said:


> I have also found they are very responsive. I really appreciate that as it shows they are both passionate about what they do and care about their customers.
> 
> Knowing the volume pot design is helpful. However, it still changes nothing about how it works. Is it ever an issue for you having  only 12 - 3 oclock play on the dial? That's not a lot of room to rotate.



Although it limits the volume control but it is still manageable.


----------



## saadi703

NickT23 said:


> Yeah not bad. In terms of comparison, very rare audio manufacturers are honest and caring. I should also post some other time regarding on his debate with of AKM chips and all that. I sense biasness. Thanks for posting that comment.


You are right nick but bias is understandable and natural. I had similar discussion with them about AKM chips as well and my feelings were similar like yours. The thing is that your products are your babies and you do indeed have some emotional attachment with it. So when you compare your product with competition then bias is natural. Also, if you do not defend your product or the decisions you took while making that product then who will defend it?


----------



## teknorob23 (Jun 25, 2020)

saadi703 said:


> You are right nick but bias is understandable and natural. I had similar discussion with them about AKM chips as well and my feelings were similar like yours. The thing is that your products are your babies and you do indeed have some emotional attachment with it. So when you compare your product with competition then bias is natural. Also, if you do not defend your product or the decisions you took while making that product then who will defend it?



There are hundred's a of crappy sounding DACs around with the latest chip so I'm a bit confused by the common, on headfi at least, pre-occupation with DAC chips. From my experience while the chip has some influence, ultimately the sonic performance comes down more to implementation and more often than not power management for example has a far bigger impact than the chip itself. And then of course there's ladder or R2R DACs, which are effectively built around late 80s tech and some of these out perform Delta sigma DACs. I think my point is that is dont judge a DAC by its chip, judge it by how it sounds.


----------



## rmsanger

tholt said:


> From yesterday's FB post.... Colors! I wonder if these are available now? I think I like all of them more than plain black.
> 
> EDIT: Wow, just noticed the screws match too!



Man I'm torn between the red and the blue.. both are nice colors!


----------



## gancanjam

rmsanger said:


> Man I'm torn between the red and the blue.. both are nice colors!



They may have Red available per my understanding, you may need to check


----------



## Belialspawn

All colour's are made to order, you just need to discuss it with Vitaliy after your purchase via 'info' email.  My FA-10 is complete but I had enough time to request a custom paint job before they shipped it. Hopefully ill get a preview on Monday.   whats a few more days wait.


----------



## NickT23

saadi703 said:


> You are right nick but bias is understandable and natural. I had similar discussion with them about AKM chips as well and my feelings were similar like yours. The thing is that your products are your babies and you do indeed have some emotional attachment with it. So when you compare your product with competition then bias is natural. Also, if you do not defend your product or the decisions you took while making that product then who will defend it?


Yeah, thats kind of true. Have been accused of being rude when am stating logical FACTS and many more, automatically trying to convey the message and always seem to be attacking them with questions and such. As much attachment I have with my babies, I would never sell off with BS conduct to customer. How to deal with it ? Make better products. And now, I sound like an asshole and rude. 
But it would be nice, if we can end all this BS marketing regarding audio gears.


----------



## NickT23

gancanjam said:


> They may have Red available per my understanding, you may need to check


Well, which one match your setup and your headphone collection ?


----------



## gancanjam

NickT23 said:


> Well, which one match your setup and your headphone collection ?



I am going with the Black one which will match my setup but I did liked the Champagne/Gold color and Grayish Silver color.


----------



## saadi703

gancanjam said:


> I am going with the Black one which will match my setup but I did liked the Champagne/Gold color and Grayish Silver color.


I like the gold color but even if I have not bought it earlier, I would have bought the black one. Best one to match the setup.


----------



## gancanjam

Color is personal but having said that, I liked the gold, grayish silver and subtle blue. They do not color match in a stack of the typical Black or Silver gadgets but the reason I wont mind buying them is that the shades are subtle, elegant and may not look out of place even if you put it in a stack of other colors. These specific colors are making the FA10 to look expensive also.  But as always, color is a personal choice


----------



## saadi703

gancanjam said:


> Color is personal but having said that, I liked the gold, grayish silver and subtle blue. They do not color match in a stack of the typical Black or Silver gadgets but the reason I wont mind buying them is that the shades are subtle, elegant and may not look out of place even if you put it in a stack of other colors. These specific colors are making the FA10 to look expensive also.  But as always, color is a personal choice


Of course color is personal. This is why everyone is saying "I like so and so color....".


----------



## gancanjam

saadi703 said:


> Of course color is personal. This is why everyone is saying "I like so and so color....".



You know Saad, I am finally sticking with Black color like you to match other rigs I have in the desk  though other colors tempted me a lot as those colors are subtler and doesn't look out of place to me. Regardless, Black will be the best fit for my desk with all rigs as black. Still waiting to get FCN-10, am at a point like, just send me the FCN-10 i will paint something here myself...LOL. 

Booked an appointment in San Francisco to audition some HPs for FCN-10 (which I have never even listened to yet..duh)  today, will share if I find anything interesting!


----------



## funkur

I was told by FLA that the volume control is more linear when running 3.5v into the SE inputs when I inquired about which output level to use out of my RME ADI. 

Not sure about the XLR input voltage.


----------



## VitalyDon

I hope that the mentioned issue with the volume control isn't the case with FCN-10 due to the fact that the DAC is built-in. Logically, I must be right.


----------



## 2a3tube

rmsanger said:


> Man I'm torn between the red and the blue.. both are nice colors!


My FA-12 was shipped today but unfortunately I have to sell it. If somebody is interested, let me know.
I've paid it $887.21, $745 amp, $38.21 PayPal fee and $100 shipping. I'm asking $887 plus actual shipping to your destination.
I'm in Florida.


----------



## tholt

2a3tube said:


> My FA-12 was shipped today but unfortunately I have to sell it. If somebody is interested, let me know.
> I've paid it $887.21, $745 amp, $38.21 PayPal fee and $100 shipping. I'm asking $887 plus actual shipping to your destination.
> I'm in Florida.


Don't they have a 15 day trial period?


----------



## 2a3tube

tholt said:


> Don't they have a 15 day trial period?


They are in Ukraine, Europe.


----------



## tholt

2a3tube said:


> They are in Ukraine, Europe.


I get that. So you're trying to save return shipping? Might want to verify that the warranty is transferrable.


----------



## 2a3tube

2a3tube said:


> My FA-12 was shipped today but unfortunately I have to sell it. If somebody is interested, let me know.
> I've paid it $887.21, $745 amp, $38.21 PayPal fee and $100 shipping. I'm asking $887 plus actual shipping to your destination.
> I'm in Florida.


It will take two weeks probably till I get the amp from Europe. 
Why I'm selling it? Because I think that I've reach "endgame" in both, headphones and amp.
HEDDphone and 45 SET Shishido are match from heaven.
I also have Audeze LCD-2 in good condition for $590.


----------



## NickT23

2a3tube said:


> It will take two weeks probably till I get the amp from Europe.
> Why I'm selling it? Because I think that I've reach "endgame" in both, headphones and amp.
> HEDDphone and 45 SET Shishido are match from heaven.
> I also have Audeze LCD-2 in good condition for $590.


sent the link of it .


----------



## 2a3tube

NickT23 said:


> sent the link of it .


??!


----------



## NickT23

2a3tube said:


> ??!


"endgame" in both, headphones and amp.
HEDDphone and 45 SET Shishido


----------



## teknorob23

2a3tube said:


> It will take two weeks probably till I get the amp from Europe.
> Why I'm selling it? Because I think that I've reach "endgame" in both, headphones and amp.
> HEDDphone and 45 SET Shishido are match from heaven.
> I also have Audeze LCD-2 in good condition for $590.



If you haven’t sold it by the time it arrives you might want to give a gentle go. I’ve come from feliks audio euforia ae which was pretty much end game stuff, but the fa12 has some the most beguiling mid range I’ve ever heard, beautifully layered and textured, without losing resolution. Highly addictive stuff. But good luck with the sale, someone should bite your hand off.


----------



## 2a3tube

2a3tube said:


> My FA-12 was shipped today but unfortunately I have to sell it. If somebody is interested, let me know.
> I've paid it $887.21, $745 amp, $38.21 PayPal fee and $100 shipping. I'm asking $887 plus actual shipping to your destination.
> I'm in Florida.


OK GUYS, BUT I HAVE TO STOP SELL. TEKNOROB23 PERSUADED ME TO GIVE IT A TRY. AND I WILL. I APOLOGIZE TO EVERY POTENTIAL BUYER.


2a3tube said:


> My FA-12 was shipped today but unfortunately I have to sell it. If somebody is interested, let me know.
> I've paid it $887.21, $745 amp, $38.21 PayPal fee and $100 shipping. I'm asking $887 plus actual shipping to your destination.
> I'm in Florida.


----------



## NickT23

2a3tube said:


> OK GUYS, BUT I HAVE TO STOP SELL. TEKNOROB23 PERSUADED ME TO GIVE IT A TRY. AND I WILL. I APOLOGIZE TO EVERY POTENTIAL BUYER.


Are you going to reply me ?


----------



## 2a3tube

NickT23 said:


> Are you going to reply me ?


Yes I did, read the thread please!


----------



## NickT23

2a3tube said:


> Yes I did, read the thread please!


No I did not received anything. There are no link. Please read my pm


----------



## teknorob23

2a3tube said:


> OK GUYS, BUT I HAVE TO STOP SELL. TEKNOROB23 PERSUADED ME TO GIVE IT A TRY. AND I WILL. I APOLOGIZE TO EVERY POTENTIAL BUYER.



Haha should be an interesting match up with detail monsters like the heddphone. What DAC/ source are you using?


----------



## 2a3tube

NickT23 said:


> Are you going to reply me ?


Nick, what you want me to replay for, amp is NOT FOR SALE ANYMORE, Sorry! Please read the thread!


----------



## NickT23

2a3tube said:


> Nick, what you want me to replay for, amp is NOT FOR SALE ANYMORE, Sorry! Please read the thread!


Well you could have answer my personal message right ?


----------



## 2a3tube

teknorob23 said:


> Haha should be an interesting match up with detail monsters like the heddphone. What DAC/ source are you using?


Emotiva 3 as a transport and Denafrips Ares II DAC. I have two tube headphone amps. 12AU7 based Tokyo Sound, upgraded with Silver Mundorf caps, stepped volume pots and Mullards, square getter, long plates. But my favorite is all Tango, Loftin-White 45/2A3 redesigned by Nobu Shishido, Japanese SET guru.The owner of shop in Tokyo, I've bought the amp from, thinks that amp is actually build by Nobu Shishido. Who knows. 45 tubes and HEDDphone is absolutely amazing, I really don't think it can go better with FA-12 but, thanks to you, I'll give a try.


----------



## teknorob23

2a3tube said:


> Emotiva 3 as a transport and Denafrips Ares II DAC. I have two tube headphone amps. 12AU7 based Tokyo Sound, upgraded with Silver Mundorf caps, stepped volume pots and Mullards, square getter, long plates. But my favorite is all Tango, Loftin-White 45/2A3 redesigned by Nobu Shishido, Japanese SET guru.The owner of shop in Tokyo, I've bought the amp from, thinks that amp is actually build by Nobu Shishido. Who knows. 45 tubes and HEDDphone is absolutely amazing, I really don't think it can go better with FA-12 but, thanks to you, I'll give a try.



Wow that’s an amazing collection. I don’t think the Fa12 will be better, just different in a good way. I’ve listened to so many totl ss amps over the last couple of years none of which really improved on the chords amp stages in the hugo2 and tt2, but the fa12 bridges the gap between the euforia and the chords. It’s a unique tuning in modern ss hp amps. It doesn’t sound like class a amps, it has a more sophisticated linear tuning and is more resolving. It can’t quite match the attack of the hugo/tt2 but it makes up for it with it unforced organic sound, my H2 has never sounded less digital. I love electronic music but I crave hearing sound as analogue as possible.

It needs a good 100+ hours run in to really come on song but I’ll be very interested to hear what you think.


----------



## 2a3tube

O yes, brake in time is “a must” for every audio gear, solid state, tubes, cables, everything, literally.


----------



## rmsanger

Have any FA-10 owners yet heard this with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC yet?   I'm itching to pull the trigger on this but want to get feedback first... My current amps aren't driving the 1266's properly and am hoping this unit with 16 watts will handle the bass better.  I'm also concerned what trade-off on noise/resolution there might be with the FA-10.   I don't want t a bright/analytical sound like the THX/A90 amps but also don't want a ton of distortion to go with the 16 watts/class A.


----------



## cfranchi

rmsanger said:


> Have any FA-10 owners yet heard this with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC yet?   I'm itching to pull the trigger on this but want to get feedback first... My current amps aren't driving the 1266's properly and am hoping this unit with 16 watts will handle the bass better.  I'm also concerned what trade-off on noise/resolution there might be with the FA-10.   I don't want t a bright/analytical sound like the THX/A90 amps but also don't want a ton of distortion to go with the 16 watts/class A.



Take a look at Headfonia, I don’t think you will be worried with any noise with FA-10.


----------



## rmsanger

cfranchi said:


> Take a look at Headfonia, I don’t think you will be worried with any noise with FA-10.


Not to be dense... Is this a "trusted source" and not a shill source?   I'm not familiar with them just wondering if typically their takes are an accurate representation.


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 1, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Not to be dense... Is this a "trusted source" and not a shill source?   I'm not familiar with them just wondering if typically their takes are an accurate representation.



I generally trust Headfonia reviewers like Linus and Lieven, same for George at Audiophile Heaven or Marcus at Headfonics.


----------



## gancanjam (Jul 1, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Have any FA-10 owners yet heard this with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC yet?   I'm itching to pull the trigger on this but want to get feedback first... My current amps aren't driving the 1266's properly and am hoping this unit with 16 watts will handle the bass better.  I'm also concerned what trade-off on noise/resolution there might be with the FA-10.   I don't want t a bright/analytical sound like the THX/A90 amps but also don't want a ton of distortion to go with the 16 watts/class A.



Two days back, I auditioned Abyss 1266, Focals, Mezze, HiFimans with 3 setups Simaudio moon neo 430, Chord Qutest & Woo audio WA22 and ifi DSD & ifi iCan .  Yeah Abyss 1266 need lot of power amongst the lot, only Neo 430 could drive it effortlessly, ifi iCan did a decent job but WA22 struggled. I liked the way it sounded with Neo 430.  My feedback in general is Moon audio Neo 430 being a SS & neutral amp had better details/resolution/dynamics while WA22 being a Tube amp was better refined/musical/easier to listen.  I am hoping FA10 or FCN 10 or FA12 will sound in between these two to inherit the best properties of SS amps still musical & non fatiguing. I have not received my FCN-10, will listen it to confirm this theory. BTW Abyss 1266 Phi TC was the best HP I had listened to in person, I liked Utopia as well for the dynamics and details but it ran too hot with Moon Neo 430,  while it was tamed with WA22 it lost some magic the SS amps had to offer


----------



## rmsanger

gancanjam said:


> Two days back, I auditioned Abyss 1266, Focals, Mezze, HiFimans with 3 setups Simaudio moon neo 430, Chord Qutest & Woo audio WA22 and ifi DSD & ifi iCan .  Yeah Abyss 1266 need lot of power amongst the lot, only Neo 430 could drive it effortlessly, ifi iCan did a decent job but WA22 struggled. I liked the way it sounded with Neo 430.  My feedback in general is Moon audio Neo 430 being a SS & neutral amp had better details/resolution/dynamics while WA22 being a Tube amp was better refined/musical/easier to listen.  I am hoping FA10 or FCN 10 or FA12 will sound in between these two to inherit the best properties of SS amps still musical & non fatiguing. I have not received my FCN-10, will listen it to confirm this theory. BTW Abyss 1266 Phi TC was the best HP I had listened to in person, I liked Utopia as well for the dynamics and details but it ran too hot with Moon Neo 430,  while it was tamed with WA22 it lost some magic the SS amps had to offer



thx.. yeah it's my hope that FA-10 can handle the Abyss low-end.. I also need to buy a new DAC so if I can keep the amp to ~ $750 I can spend a bit more on a DAC.   Thinking of a MHDT Orchid or Holo Audio Spring 2 Lvl 2 /KTE with the FA-10.   If the FA-10 doesn't work I'll go Bifrost 2 and likely the xi audio formula s but that wouldn't be my preferred route.


----------



## iFi audio

gancanjam said:


> Two days back, I auditioned Abyss 1266, Focals, Mezze, HiFimans with 3 setups Simaudio moon neo 430, Chord Qutest & Woo audio WA22 and ifi DSD & ifi iCan . Yeah Abyss 1266 need lot of power amongst the lot, only Neo 430 could drive it effortlessly, ifi iCan did a decent job



Yup, Abyss isn't exactly easy to drive, nope  Not as tough as Susvara, but close


----------



## gancanjam (Jul 1, 2020)

iFi audio said:


> Yup, Abyss isn't exactly easy to drive, nope  Not as tough as Susvara, but close



We talked about 1266 & Susvara,  fine … now lets not talk about HE6 .. it may need a mini nuclear reactor to power it   but i guess drivability is just one aspect but it will boil down to Sound signature preference and pairing to choose the right DAC/Amp. BTW, are you an official from iFi ? if yes then I like the  iFi iCan versatility to cater to different needs with Bass/3D/Amp type options.


----------



## tholt

gancanjam said:


> We talked about 1266 & Susvara, fine … now lets not talk about HE6 .. it may need a mini nuclear reactor to power it  but i guess drivability is just one aspect but it will boil down to Sound signature preference and pairing to choose the right DAC/Amp


If 16w can't power the HE-6, there is something wrong with the amp


----------



## gancanjam

tholt said:


> If 16w can't power the HE-6, there is something wrong with the amp



Am in SF Bay area, Pleasanton to be precise. we can even meet once I get FCN-10, if time permits then we can even try your bad boy Abyss 1266 with FCN-10


----------



## tholt

gancanjam said:


> Am in SF Bay area, Pleasanton to be precise. we can even meet once I get FCN-10, if time permits then we can even try your bad boy Abyss 1266 with FCN-10


No kidding, cool! Totally, I'm down. PM me


----------



## NickT23

2a3tube said:


> O yes, brake in time is “a must” for every audio gear, solid state, tubes, cables, everything, literally.


what do you mean ?


----------



## Joe Bloggs (Jul 2, 2020)

tholt said:


> If 16w can't power the HE-6, there is something wrong with the amp


Maybe adapt a speaker amp to them?

Or just plug one straight in, I'm sure they can take that too 🤣


----------



## cfranchi

tholt said:


> If 16w can't power the HE-6, there is something wrong with the amp



FA-10 can provide 10.5w at 50ohm (measured by Flux)


----------



## RSC08

How dark is the background on the FA-12?


----------



## rmsanger

cfranchi said:


> FA-10 can provide 10.5w at 50ohm (measured by Flux)


Hence my point on Amir or Wolf putting it up to their rig. I’d love to see the real measurement and distortion measured at 50 ohm.  I know it won’t be an A90 but still would be nice to see the output.


----------



## saadi703

rmsanger said:


> Hence my point on Amir or Wolf putting it up to their rig. I’d love to see the real measurement and distortion measured at 50 ohm.  I know it won’t be an A90 but still would be nice to see the output.


If I was in US then I would have sent mine but I can’t.


----------



## cfranchi

saadi703 said:


> If I was in US then I would have sent mine but I can’t.



Hello saadi,
I’m waiting for FA-10 delivery to power my HE6-se. As you have Susvara, do you prefer A90 over FA-10 ? The more powerful FA-10 does have any advantages ? More robust bass, more control ?


----------



## saadi703 (Jul 2, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> Hello saadi,
> I’m waiting for FA-10 delivery to power my HE6-se. As you have Susvara, do you prefer A90 over FA-10 ? The more powerful FA-10 does have any advantages ? More robust bass, more control ?


Yes I do prefer A90 over FA-10. I am really enjoying listening to Susvara + A90 combo. It has more than enough power to drive it. FA-10 advantage is the colored sound (if your into that kind of thing) as compared to A90 which is more transparent. FA-10 has more thicker and full bodied mids and also if you want less hot treble than FA-10 is the choice. A90 has even more darker background and more detail. I don’t find any advantage of more power in FA-10. I personally even prefer the bass of A90 and it does not lack the slam and punch. A90 can drive Susvara loud enough at 12 to 1 o clock volume and I never passed 1 o clock. I don’t feel A90 is lose anywhere or underpowered or sound tiny. I never thought A90 would be such a great pairing with Susvara. I am so happy that I bought this amp and Sandu has earned my respect as reviewer. Great times really, how a $500 amp can sound so good and drive the most demanding headphone. I am pretty sure that if this amp was made by some big brand name then it would have easily cost $3,500 or more. I don’t feel any need to invest in amping anymore unless I get bored and I want a new toy.

Edit: Having said that, bass on some songs has slight more thump on FA-10. So it does vary a bit for some songs. But bass is also a strong point of A90 not that it is elevated too much but rather the delivery of bass is nice. Depending on your taste some would prefer the thicker mids of FA-10. I like the variety though and it is also enjoyable to listen same songs on both amps and it is interesting how different they sound.


----------



## rmsanger

saadi703 said:


> Yes I do prefer A90 over FA-10. I am really enjoying listening to Susvara + A90 combo. It has more than enough power to drive it. FA-10 advantage is the colored sound (if your into that kind of thing) as compared to A90 which is more transparent. FA-10 has more* thicker and full bodied mids and also if you want less hot treble than FA-10 is the choice.* A90 has even more darker background and more detail. I don’t find any advantage of more power in FA-10. I personally even prefer the bass of A90 and it does not lack the slam and punch. A90 can drive Susvara loud enough at 12 to 1 o clock volume and I never passed 1 o clock. I don’t feel A90 is lose anywhere or underpowered or sound tiny. I never thought A90 would be such a great pairing with Susvara. I am so happy that I bought this amp and Sandu has earned my respect as reviewer. Great times really, how a $500 amp can sound so good and drive the most demanding headphone. I am pretty sure that if this amp was made by some big brand name then it would have easily cost $3,500 or more. I don’t feel any need to invest in amping anymore unless I get bored and I want a new toy.



This exactly the feedback I was looking for... The THX / A90 fans love the crisp, dry, clinical/critical listening in all the glorious detail (measurement queens).   I tend to find the thx sound signature harsh, sibilant, thin, and just boring for me.  I'm pretty sure what you describe on the FA-10 would be perfect for my preferences especially if I can combine with a tube r2r dac or tube pre-amp.   Thanks!


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 2, 2020)

saadi703 said:


> Yes I do prefer A90 over FA-10. I am really enjoying listening to Susvara + A90 combo. It has more than enough power to drive it. FA-10 advantage is the colored sound (if your into that kind of thing) as compared to A90 which is more transparent. FA-10 has more thicker and full bodied mids and also if you want less hot treble than FA-10 is the choice. A90 has even more darker background and more detail. I don’t find any advantage of more power in FA-10. I personally even prefer the bass of A90 and it does not lack the slam and punch. A90 can drive Susvara loud enough at 12 to 1 o clock volume and I never passed 1 o clock. I don’t feel A90 is lose anywhere or underpowered or sound tiny. I never thought A90 would be such a great pairing with Susvara. I am so happy that I bought this amp and Sandu has earned my respect as reviewer. Great times really, how a $500 amp can sound so good and drive the most demanding headphone. I am pretty sure that if this amp was made by some big brand name then it would have easily cost $3,500 or more. I don’t feel any need to invest in amping anymore unless I get bored and I want a new toy.



That’s plenty of good news for you 

You are right we have chance to have now plenty of quality gears at reasonable price.

I’ll stick with FA-10 I guess, even if A90 has a local dealer in France. Despite db specs announced by Hifiman, it seems from what i have read that HE6 is more difficult to drive than Susvara : you see I try to justify the power of FA-10 

Thank you


----------



## saadi703 (Jul 2, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> That’s plenty of good news for you
> you are right we have chance to have now plenty of quality gears for reasonable price.
> I’ll stick with GA-10 i guess, even if A90 has a local dealer in France. Despite db specs announces by Hifiman, it seems from what i have read that He6 is moee difficult to drive than Susvara : you see I try to justify the power of Fa-10
> Thank you


 I am pretty sure that you would enjoy the FA-10. It is a pretty good amp on it's own. If you are fan of beefier / full bodied sounding amps then you would love it. Also some people might not enjoy the extra detail in A90's highs and rather enjoy the smoother treble of FA-10. I have never head HE-6 but some people say that it is little analytical / colder sounding so I feel FA-10 would be a better pairing as compared to A90. HE-6se already slams pretty hard (harder than Susvara) and with FA-10 you would have the amp which can really keep up with the beast. I am not going to sell my FA-10 any time soon as well as I prefer it over A90 for certain songs.


----------



## iFi audio

gancanjam said:


> BTW, are you an official from iFi ? if yes then I like the iFi iCan versatility to cater to different needs with Bass/3D/Amp type options.



I sure am, my name is Rob. And thanks for nice words about iCAN. Those features surely were helpful enough that in our later products we included as many as we could. thanks again!


----------



## Bhk1004 (Jul 8, 2020)

Has anyone tried and reviewed the FA-12? Outside of it being balanced, I have no idea what the actual sound differences are and why someone would choose it over the FA-10... Think Flux Labs really needs to have both of the amps reviewed by someone reputable and the differences properly explained.


----------



## gancanjam (Jul 8, 2020)

Bhk1004 said:


> Has anyone tried and reviewed the FA-12? Outside of it being balanced, I have no idea what the actual sound differences are and why someone would choose it over the FA-10... Think Flux Labs really needs to have both of the amps reviewed by someone reputable and the differences properly explained.



There is now another amp, FA-10 Pro with different sound signature  This is from their web site

FA-10 features

- JFET inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design;
- Neat high freqs
- Full-bodied mids
 - Fast and soft bass response with a bit forced Mid-Bass

FA-10 PRO features

- BIPOLAR inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design
- Crisp high freqs
- Linear mids
- Precise, percussive bass response
 - Remote control (optional)


----------



## Bhk1004

gancanjam said:


> There is now another amp, FA-10 Pro with different sound signature  This is from their web site
> 
> FA-10 features
> 
> ...


Jesus... CHOICES AHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## rmsanger

Yeah I'm going to hit the pause button on purchasing one until a few more reviews get out there.. I need Zeos will be getting a FA-10 at some point but with the multiple product offerings I want to make sure I get a high confidence level of quality and which components match well with it.


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> Yeah I'm going to hit the pause button on purchasing one until a few more reviews get out there.. I need Zeos will be getting a FA-10 at some point but with the multiple product offerings I want to make sure I get a high confidence level of quality and which components match well with it.


That Zeos guy is very misleading and not to be trusted 100%


----------



## rmsanger

NickT23 said:


> That Zeos guy is very misleading and not to be trusted 100%


I watch him daily I can pick apart the fluff from real.  I watch Darko Gutt Zero Fidelity Thomas Joe N Tell Next Best Thing and a few others.  After you see enough data points from these people you gain an understanding of reality.


----------



## elira

NickT23 said:


> That Zeos guy is very misleading and not to be trusted 100%


No one is to be trusted 100%.


----------



## iFi audio

elira said:


> No one is to be trusted 100%.


----------



## tesox (Jul 9, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> There is now another amp, FA-10 Pro with different sound signature  This is from their web site
> 
> FA-10 features
> 
> ...




This whole fluxlab acoustics product lineup and the missleading reviews and comments
of fluxlab starts confusing me more and more. Also the "weekly" announcement of new products and
color options while many customers like me are still waiting for their ordered amps is frustrating.

I ordered a Fa-10 after reading the FA-10N review on „soundnews“ manly
because he praises the hard-hitting ability so much.
At this time the FA-10 was officially the hard hitting neutral/cold amp
wich was not recommended for headphones like HD800 and similar.
Fluxlab themself recommended the FA-12 to be a better match because of the "warmer" sound signature.

In the following weeks, starting with comparisions between FA-10 and HA90,
the FA-10 seems to transfer to something totally different.

I think fluxlab is not very lucky with describing the sound signature of their
products, maybe its a translation/not native speaker thing.
To call the bass soft and the the midrange fullbodied vs. linear is at least confusing.
Isn't any serious amp aiming at linear frequency response and
wasn't the bass hard-hitting like no other in the „soundnews“ review?
(I mean you can been hit hard by a cotton ball as well if it weights some pounds and is fast enough...)

After reading their facebook post about FA-10pro vs. FA10 I ask myself what the FA-12 with
its even warmer sound signature is to be? If you read this you
expect the FA-10 as a boomy non linear soft and dark amp ... very confusing


----------



## teknorob23

tesox said:


> This whole fluxlab acoustics product lineup and the missleading reviews and comments
> of fluxlab starts confusing me more and more. Also the "weekly" announcement of new products and
> color options while many customers like me are still waiting for their ordered amps is frustrating.
> 
> ...



I totally get your frustration, have you put these concerns to FLA? I think there is little bit of lost in translation going on, but i dont think the reviews of FCN10 in sound news and FA10 in Headfonia are fairly consistent with one another. I was lucky enough to receive my FA12 about a month ago. I can confirm the presentation is pretty-much linear, with no added emphasis anywhere in the FR. That said presentation is consistent with what you'd expect from class A amplification. It is full bodied with just a touch of warmth but nothing over the top or leaning toward syrupy, more just a touch of wetness. I'm losing next to no resolution compared to listening directly out of my Chord Hugo 2 and i have subsequently tried with Chord TT2 with which the FA12 scales to meet very well, with just a tiny loss in fine detail. The later should be expected with over £3k difference in price tags. 

I was worried about losing the low end grunt, crystalline clarity, control, focus and pace of the Hugo2, but the FA12's linear presentation is pretty much transparent to the source, if that makes sense, e.g i'm getting all of the aforementioned stuff i love from the H2, but in a more organic, less digital sounding package. The separation is all there, but FR, blends and flows in more natural way, with a more organic texture and body shape to the notes compared to the Chord DAC/Amp. 

Dont get me wrong i still love listening to the H2 directly but more case of enjoying the differences and either being better or worse than one another.

My frames of reference are nowhere near as wide as a pro reviewer, but i have worked my way through a lot of quality amplification costing less and regularly far more than the FA12 and i'm struggling to think of SS amp i've enjoyed listening too more.  The FA12 has a hard act to follow in my set up, taking the place of my dearly but now departed Feliks Audio Euforia AE tube amp, which in itself carried very few of the stereotypical traits associated with OTL amps, in that it was pretty neutral, dynamic, and incredibly detailed, but it cost circa £2500 compared to FA12 at £700'ish. They shouldnt be in the same conversation, but i'm not missing the Euforia.

I'm an unapologetic new fanboy of FLA, but this is purely because they gave me such comprehensive and impartial advice before purchasing and of course because i'm so pleased with the performance of the FA12 and the price tag which is way lower than this performance warrants.  Dealing with a new'ish brand which only sells direct from country outside the EU, isnt easy as buying from someone established inside the EU, but i think what they doing is exciting and based on my experience with the FA12, they are in a small way shaking up the market, offering something different, possibly better and at a very good price.

Like you i'd love to hear the FA10 to make the comparison, or at least read a review from someone with both units. As i understand it Headfonia are on the case with this, so we may not have to wait too long. In the meantime if i were you i would contact FLA, explain your concerns and i'm sure they'll do there best to allay them.  

Most important of all i hope your amp arrives very soon and then your ears can make the decision for you


----------



## NickT23

elira said:


> No one is to be trusted 100%.


But some can be trusted at even 60%.


----------



## 2a3tube (Jul 10, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> But some can be trusted at even 60%.


 I finally decided to sell my FLUX FA-12 and HEDDphone. FA-12 is two days old. I've placed an order on May 24th and received it on Monday, July 7th. Cost me, with shipping and PayPal fees, $890. Selling for $950. The only reason I'm selling amp and headphones are financial difficulties.
I've bought HEDDphone from headphones.com as a open box for $1500 two months ago. They are still as new condition. Selling for $1400. Buyer pays actual shipping.


----------



## driftingbunnies

2a3tube said:


> I finally decided to sell my FLUX FA-12 and HEDDphone. FA-12 is two days old. I've placed an order on May 24th and received it on Monday, July 7th. Cost me, with shipping and PayPal fees, $890. Selling for $950. The only reason I'm selling amp and headphones are financial difficulties.
> I've bought HEDDphone from headphones.com as a open box for $1500 two months ago. They are still as new condition. Selling for $1500. Buyer pays actual shipping.



This isn't really the place to be posting FS items. Please use the FS section of the forum.


----------



## cfranchi

tesox said:


> This whole fluxlab acoustics product lineup and the missleading reviews and comments
> of fluxlab starts confusing me more and more. Also the "weekly" announcement of new products and
> color options while many customers like me are still waiting for their ordered amps is frustrating.
> 
> ...



I agree but don’t want to blame Flux, however I would have ordered FA-10 pro given the description.
I’m waiting for my FA-10, still on transit to France since June 24...


----------



## teknorob23

cfranchi said:


> I agree but don’t want to blame Flux, however I would have ordered FA-10 pro given the description.
> I’m waiting for my FA-10, still on transit to France since June 24...



I understand, i would mention this to Vitaliy, see what he has to say. More frustrating is the wait, mine took 5 weeks and for some reason went via Norway to the UK. I think FLA are trying to sort out a better courier service which equally doesnt cost the earth. I think DHL is £200 from the Ukraine. They really do need to sort out some local distribution, as these delivery lead times are the worst i've experienced and i've bought kit from all over the world, plus this would enable some opportunities to demo too. I'm very happy with my FA12, but i'd love to hear the rest of the range for myself too. I hope yours arrives very soon


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> I totally get your frustration, have you put these concerns to FLA? I think there is little bit of lost in translation going on, but i dont think the reviews of FCN10 in sound news and FA10 in Headfonia are fairly consistent with one another. I was lucky enough to receive my FA12 about a month ago. I can confirm the presentation is pretty-much linear, with no added emphasis anywhere in the FR. That said presentation is consistent with what you'd expect from class A amplification. It is full bodied with just a touch of warmth but nothing over the top or leaning toward syrupy, more just a touch of wetness. I'm losing next to no resolution compared to listening directly out of my Chord Hugo 2 and i have subsequently tried with Chord TT2 with which the FA12 scales to meet very well, with just a tiny loss in fine detail. The later should be expected with over £3k difference in price tags.
> 
> I was worried about losing the low end grunt, crystalline clarity, control, focus and pace of the Hugo2, but the FA12's linear presentation is pretty much transparent to the source, if that makes sense, e.g i'm getting all of the aforementioned stuff i love from the H2, but in a more organic, less digital sounding package. The separation is all there, but FR, blends and flows in more natural way, with a more organic texture and body shape to the notes compared to the Chord DAC/Amp.
> 
> ...


So which one sounds better to you ?


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> So which one sounds better to you ?



I've only heard the FA12


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> I've only heard the FA12


No I mean compare to other amps in your possession as you mentioned from your previous quote.


----------



## NickT23

tesox said:


> This whole fluxlab acoustics product lineup and the missleading reviews and comments
> of fluxlab starts confusing me more and more. Also the "weekly" announcement of new products and
> color options while many customers like me are still waiting for their ordered amps is frustrating.
> 
> ...


This is what happens if you trust reviewers and sponsors, very misleading which can influence various people to their benefit. Marketing friend.


----------



## NickT23

iFi audio said:


>


Hello, why are you on this thread ?


----------



## rmsanger (Jul 9, 2020)

My ultimate hope is that we would get 2-3 Flux units circulating in the US and start a "tour" so we can get listening impressions out there.  Then at the end of tour the units can be purchased and everyone who participated can be directly through the retailer.  It would also help in getting a mass community of thoughts/impressions out there to build "trust" in the brand and product.  I think there is a ton of interest in this product/brand at this price point however the limitations are currently on production/distribution and the mktg aspect of it.

I myself am dying to get a proper amp to power my 1266 cans but I can't afford to cycle through multiple flux/burson conductor/headamp mini gsx units until I find the right one.


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> My ultimate hope is that we would get 2-3 Flux units circulating in the US and start a "tour" so we can get listening impressions out there.  Then at the end of tour the units can be purchased and everyone who participated can be directly through the retailer.  It would also help in getting a mass community of thoughts/impressions out there to build "trust" in the brand and product.  I think there is a ton of interest in this product/brand at this price point however the limitations are currently on production/distribution and the mktg aspect of it.
> 
> I myself am dying to get a proper amp to power my 1266 cans but I can't afford to cycle through multiple flux/burson conductor/headamp mini gsx units until I find the right one.


Audio industry does not operate that way. The closest to audition is crowded event which is best suited for Sony and Bose ANC only. And not everyone lives in North America.


----------



## rmsanger

NickT23 said:


> Audio industry does not operate that way. The closest to audition is crowded event which is best suited for Sony and Bose ANC only. And not everyone lives in North America.



sure it does.. I'm on the burson conductor (train) tour for next month.  I've got a week with the product will post my feedback on the thread and product reviews.  I only pay to ship it to the next person and can purchase the product at the end.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...discussion-thread.934467/page-3#post-15727842

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...ance-starting-july-2020.935956/#post-15720221


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> sure it does.. I'm on the burson conductor (train) tour for next month.  I've got a week with the product will post my feedback on the thread and product reviews.  I only pay to ship it to the next person and can purchase the product at the end.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...discussion-thread.934467/page-3#post-15727842
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...ance-starting-july-2020.935956/#post-15720221


No it does not. If so, why do you need to request demo across the states. Most people request because most audio manufacturers does not have supply chain to demo. Also, tour and shipping are costly and not everyone can afford. Not everybody live in the same country and not everybody will have the opportunity to experience the same return policy. Some have troublesome with custom duty and all that. Moreover, people have different sources, cans and other factors where it may sound different. If you demo FA-10, what dac are you using, people impression varies across dacs and other internal factors. So major factors to consider. So maybe it does only for USA, guess not everyone is lucky.


----------



## driftingbunnies

NickT23 said:


> No it does not. If so, why do you need to request demo across the states. Most people request because most audio manufacturers does not have supply chain to demo. Also, tour and shipping are costly and not everyone can afford. Not everybody live in the same country and not everybody will have the opportunity to experience the same return policy. Some have troublesome with custom duty and all that. Moreover, people have different sources, cans and other factors where it may sound different. If you demo FA-10, what dac are you using, people impression varies across dacs and other internal factors. So major factors to consider. So maybe it does only for USA, guess not everyone is lucky.



So how do you suggest people listen to a product that's new from a relatively small company? For a small company, it makes sense to send a couple units out for demo as a cheap way to advertise their product. If the tour is not something you can afford, then you will probably need to wait for reviews from others. All reviews will have different equipment, that's quite obvious. 

If you don't think a tour is a good idea, then just go ahead and buy a unit and let us know what you think.


----------



## teknorob23

rmsanger said:


> My ultimate hope is that we would get 2-3 Flux units circulating in the US and start a "tour" so we can get listening impressions out there.  Then at the end of tour the units can be purchased and everyone who participated can be directly through the retailer.  It would also help in getting a mass community of thoughts/impressions out there to build "trust" in the brand and product.  I think there is a ton of interest in this product/brand at this price point however the limitations are currently on production/distribution and the mktg aspect of it.
> 
> I myself am dying to get a proper amp to power my 1266 cans but I can't afford to cycle through multiple flux/burson conductor/headamp mini gsx units until I find the right one.



I have suggested this to FLA but you need to be a sponsor in order to run a loaner program on here but I know it’s something they want to do in the future. Bit of a chicken/egg situation though: loaner program creates reviews and gives buyers a demo opp, but they probably need to sell amps so they can up the marketing spend and become a sponsor


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> I have suggested this to FLA but you need to be a sponsor in order to run a loaner program on here but I know it’s something they want to do in the future. Bit of a chicken/egg situation though: loaner program creates reviews and gives buyers a demo opp, but they probably need to sell amps so they can up the marketing spend and become a sponsor


Curious what they said? 

I don't know how much it costs to be a sponsor but I can't imagine FLA not being able to pay it. If they can afford the R&D to come up with new amp designs and manufacture them, I would assume a sponsorship would be feasible. I think the loaner program is a great idea for smaller companies to get known. They have a built-in captive audience here already. Sending a couple units for a demo tour (FA-12 and FA-10) seems like an easy decision. Based on impressions here and their description of the sonic signatures, I would assume they'll get a few sales out of it, offsetting any expense getting the units over here. Not to mention getting our glowing reviews published for others to see. Win win. Hopefully they're watching this thread and considering it.


----------



## rmsanger (Jul 9, 2020)

delete


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> Curious what they said?
> 
> I don't know how much it costs to be a sponsor but I can't imagine FLA not being able to pay it. If they can afford the R&D to come up with new amp designs and manufacture them, I would assume a sponsorship would be feasible. I think the loaner program is a great idea for smaller companies to get known. They have a built-in captive audience here already. Sending a couple units for a demo tour (FA-12 and FA-10) seems like an easy decision. Based on impressions here and their description of the sonic signatures, I would assume they'll get a few sales out of it, offsetting any expense getting the units over here. Not to mention getting our glowing reviews published for others to see. Win win. Hopefully they're watching this thread and considering it.



They made no comment as to whether they could or could not afford it. They are in the early stages of growing a business and brand outside their domestic market and there are any number of marketing channels open to them. They also have an obvious issue of logistics with the Ukraine not be the easiest country to export from. This and other challenges probably mean its more a question of timing. There's no point over cooking demand if youre not in position to full it. All you end up with is customers getting frustrated going elsewhere if they have to wait too long. I think its obvious that based on just two favourable reviews, demand is already stretching logistics and production, that and COVID probably hasnt helped either with local lockdowns in ukraine as there are everywhere else in the world. That said, i've worked with a few quite well known hifi brands and marketing budgets are much smaller than you'd think even for so called bigger players, so i doubt they have a lot of spare cash for marketing and being a sponsor in here is quite a financial commitment, as headfi is a large and highly desirable audience. Loaner programs are definitely win win, in market like headfi, where your customers predominantly congregate online, but the timings got to be right.


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> They made no comment as to whether they could or could not afford it. They are in the early stages of growing a business and brand outside their domestic market and there are any number of marketing channels open to them.


Reviews and forum chatter are the best ways to gain traction in this industry. When you google a product you're interested in, that's what you hope to find. As a manufacturer, good reviews (and great quotes from them) are the best marketing tools to have at your disposal.



teknorob23 said:


> There's no point over cooking demand if youre not in position to full it.


Also very true. And it looks like they need to address their logistics issues at the moment. 



teknorob23 said:


> That said, i've worked with a few quite well known hifi brands and marketing budgets are much smaller than you'd think even for so called bigger players, so i doubt they have a lot of spare cash for marketing and being a sponsor in here is quite a financial commitment, as headfi is a large and highly desirable audience.


I have also worked in marketing for the hifi industry. This can be true, but it's not a rule. It's just a matter of priorities. As a smaller company, they probably don't have a big marketing budget. I also have no idea what it costs to be a sponson on this site, perhaps it's enough to be a stopper. But if I were to spend money, head-fi would be an obvious place to spend it.



teknorob23 said:


> Loaner programs are definitely win win, in market like headfi, where your customers predominantly congregate online, but the timings got to be right.


I believe timing is right when you have new product(s) you want to get out to market and gain buzz for. COVID presents a unique opportunity, and depending on where your finances are at, it could be a golden opportunity. I've spoken with a few manufacturers who are experiencing record sales. But your point re: ship times is real and at the moment it doesn't seem like FLA can get them out fast enough.

Outside of whatever the sponsorship costs, a loaner program doesn't cost much more than shipping the units out to wherever they feel will get most bang for buck. Europe might be more feasible than the US. From there, the users are responsible for shipping it around. The manufacturer would need to assume the risk that their products could get damaged, no way around that. IMO for the money, they'd be best served getting more reviews under their belt. I'd still love to see a demo program, though, if only for more selfish reasons


----------



## gancanjam

tesox said:


> This whole fluxlab acoustics product lineup and the missleading reviews and comments
> of fluxlab starts confusing me more and more. Also the "weekly" announcement of new products and
> color options while many customers like me are still waiting for their ordered amps is frustrating.
> 
> ...



I had reached out to Flux recently and they do understand this, they will articulate it better between all the variations of FA ** Amps like 10, 10 pro, 12, 11   in the near future. Yes we can get lost with all the descriptions between their FB/web site/reviewers and descriptions can be contradicting but hope this situation will be improved.


----------



## Kevin Lee

I received my FA-10 . I think it worth every penny. And I trust my ears.


----------



## JP281 (Jul 10, 2020)

When did yours ship? 10 weeks for me and nothing. Not even a shipping update.


----------



## JP281

Kevin Lee said:


> I received my FA-10 . I think it worth every penny. And I trust my ears.


----------



## cfranchi

JP281 said:


> When did yours ship? 10 weeks for me and nothing. Not even a shipping update.



You mean 10 weeks after delivering by Flux ? What is your tracking info ?


----------



## JP281

cfranchi said:


> You mean 10 weeks after delivering by Flux ? What is your tracking info ?


Yes it shipped out april 30th


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> Reviews and forum chatter are the best ways to gain traction in this industry. When you google a product you're interested in, that's what you hope to find. As a manufacturer, good reviews (and great quotes from them) are the best marketing tools to have at your disposal.
> 
> 
> Also very true. And it looks like they need to address their logistics issues at the moment.
> ...



I agree with everything you say, so it just comes back to not being able to get the product made or more likely delivered quick enough to fulfil a spike in demand this could create. If you've worked with these guys too, you'll probably recognise the problem that they dont always think from the target audiences point of view even when it looks super obvious from our side of the fence. I will keep badgering them to do this, so if everyone else can get on their case too, they might do it just to get some peace.


----------



## NickT23

driftingbunnies said:


> So how do you suggest people listen to a product that's new from a relatively small company? For a small company, it makes sense to send a couple units out for demo as a cheap way to advertise their product. If the tour is not something you can afford, then you will probably need to wait for reviews from others. All reviews will have different equipment, that's quite obvious.
> 
> If you don't think a tour is a good idea, then just go ahead and buy a unit and let us know what you think.


Yeah, thats kind of true. However, not just small company, that also goes to manufacturer that mass produce their products. Also, I can even argue about the unethical conduct by most manufacturer particularly big companies in terms of expansion and subsidiaries but I wont due to last ban. People who lives outside of US are always at disadvantages. Especially when exposing BS and myths, but going off topic. But am just generalizing not necessary just aiming on Flux. However, Flux Acoustic is not really relatively new, they just shift to another segment in the market particularly low cost class A amps. Not all but most reviews are sponsored and bias which perception of judging sound quality varies upon preferences and sources being use which can mislead most people. As most of us, have to depend on reviewer, thats too bad. And not everyone can afford to A/B test and have good return policy for each unit being purchase, furthermore if you live in overseas, thats even worst. Local dealer is our only option.


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 10, 2020)

JP281 said:


> Yes it shipped out april 30th



Not good news, I have asked to Flux about my shipping. I have also suggested them to get in touch with local european resellers, it should help them / us even if the final price would be a bit greater.


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> Not good news, I have asked to Flux about my shipping. I have also suggested them to get in touch with local european resellers, it should help them / us even if the final price would be a bit greater.


Hey, are you from Europe ?


----------



## cfranchi

NickT23 said:


> Hey, are you from Europe ?



Yes, from France.


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> Yes, from France.


Bonjour !


----------



## cfranchi

NickT23 said:


> Bonjour !



Salut


----------



## Kevin Lee (Jul 10, 2020)

JP281 said:


> When did yours ship? 10 weeks for me and nothing. Not even a shipping update.


Ship on 7 July, 2020 by DHL And I live in Hong Kong.


----------



## cfranchi

JP281 said:


> When did yours ship? 10 weeks for me and nothing. Not even a shipping update.



And what is the answer from Flux ? It is a bit like your package is lost : are they ready to proceed to a refund ?


----------



## gancanjam

Kevin Lee said:


> I received my FA-10 . I think it worth every penny. And I trust my ears.



Congrats ! you cant escape from this thread without posting the impressions and comparisons


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> I agree with everything you say, so it just comes back to not being able to get the product made or more likely delivered quick enough to fulfil a spike in demand this could create. If you've worked with these guys too, you'll probably recognise the problem that they dont always think from the target audiences point of view even when it looks super obvious from our side of the fence. I will keep badgering them to do this, so if everyone else can get on their case too, they might do it just to get some peace.


Cool. I will. They seem very responsive and eager to please, so perhaps they'd be open to it. Seems like people like their products, so they'd better be ready for some orders! Seems like that would be a good problem to have and to solve  Hopefully they will make that a priority, as it certainly seems like it needs to be addressed.


----------



## teknorob23

FA12 + Hugo2/2go + Sennh820 + Class of Red + a bit of brand new downtempo electro housey sort of thing 

Possibly the perfect antidote to week 4,978 of lockdown homeschooling


----------



## driftingbunnies

Has the average time been 4-5 weeks for people who have received their amps?


----------



## passernger10000 (Jul 11, 2020)

In response to: 
_I finally decided to sell my FLUX FA-12 and HEDDphone. FA-12 is two days old. I've placed an order on May 24th and received it on Monday, July 7th. Cost me, with shipping and PayPal fees, $890. Selling for $950. The only reason I'm selling amp and headphones are financial difficulties.
I've bought HEDDphone from headphones.com as a open box for $1500 two months ago. They are still as new condition. Selling for $1400. Buyer pays actual shipping._

Poor concession, why don't you just try to make a profit from it. I hope nobody offers you what you paid for it. Thats not the way mistakes work!


----------



## tholt (Jul 11, 2020)

passernger10000 said:


> In response to:
> _I finally decided to sell my FLUX FA-12 and HEDDphone. FA-12 is two days old. I've placed an order on May 24th and received it on Monday, July 7th. Cost me, with shipping and PayPal fees, $890. Selling for $950. The only reason I'm selling amp and headphones are financial difficulties.
> I've bought HEDDphone from headphones.com as a open box for $1500 two months ago. They are still as new condition. Selling for $1400. Buyer pays actual shipping._
> 
> Poor concession, why don't you just try to make a profit from it. I hope nobody offers you what you paid for it. Thats not the way mistakes work!



No matter what a seller wants to make, the market will decide what's fair. And it never has any pity.

BTW, how did his post get deleted?


----------



## funkur

I've had the FA-10 for a few weeks now and I have to say, I'm incredibly impressed and happy with it.  Impression-wise, the Sandu review sums it up perfectly.  

My previous setup was an Airist Heron 5, LCD-XC, NuForce DAC-80 w/ Schitt Eitr, MacBook Air source, Wireworld and Analysis Plus cables.  Back in February, I started getting the itch to re-do the setup since it had been a few years.  First up was trying the Focal Stellia, which led me to the ZMF Verite C.  Then I knew everything else had to change!  I tried a few tube amps like the Hagerman Tuba and Linear Tube Audio MZ2 (both very, very good), but I just missed the power output of solid state and was thinking about the Burson Conductor 3 when I read the first review of the FA-10 on Headphonia and figured I'd give it a try.  

Abundantly pure, clean, silent Class A power with sweet treble and midrange is right up my alley.  I enjoy revealing front end setups paired with a slightly laid back amplifier and the FA-10 is simply perfect for me in that sense.  If anyone is wondering, I felt the RME ADI-2-DAC FS v2 paired better with this amp than the Chord Qutest.  I have not heard the FA-12, but Flux Lab directed me to the FA-10 based on my preferences and gear I had at the time.  When I had ordered, the FA-10 was on backorder for about 30 days, but once it shipped via DHL, I had it in Maryland within a few days.

My now hopefully endgame (for now) HP setup is FA-10, ZMF Verite C, RME ADI-2-DAC FS v2, Auralic Aires w/ SBooster, and a full loom of Audio Sensibility Impact SE cables. FWIW, I know not everyone believes in cables, but the FA-10 really does scale with better power and IC cables.


----------



## teknorob23

funkur said:


> I've had the FA-10 for a few weeks now and I have to say, I'm incredibly impressed and happy with it.  Impression-wise, the Sandu review sums it up perfectly.
> 
> My previous setup was an Airist Heron 5, LCD-XC, NuForce DAC-80 w/ Schitt Eitr, MacBook Air source, Wireworld and Analysis Plus cables.  Back in February, I started getting the itch to re-do the setup since it had been a few years.  First up was trying the Focal Stellia, which led me to the ZMF Verite C.  Then I knew everything else had to change!  I tried a few tube amps like the Hagerman Tuba and Linear Tube Audio MZ2 (both very, very good), but I just missed the power output of solid state and was thinking about the Burson Conductor 3 when I read the first review of the FA-10 on Headphonia and figured I'd give it a try.
> 
> ...



Wow, great set up, and dont be apologetic about mentioning cables. It shouldn't really open to debate anymore as to whether they make any difference, as far i can tell after 25 years of listening, pretty much everything in hifi makes a difference, some of course bigger than others. Obviously if your system cant resolve the differences then your not going to hear them. I could change cables all day long in my office mac based system and the only one that makes any difference really is the USB. Ethernet tweaks make very little difference when streaming with a computer, theres too much other crap going on for to matter, yet in a dedicated streamer, power supply and ethernet make the biggest difference apart from the streamer itself.

Sorry thats a wormhole for another thread. I have the FA12 but have taken a very similar journey through TOTL closed backs, just with slightly different endpoint, entirely down to personal preferences, starting out with Stellias, buying the VCs blind and being initially blown away, then finding myself back at the Stellias, only to rediscover the the much maligned (mainly by me) senn HD820 which for me meet in the middle of the other two. I have the rme and Hugo2 DACs, but prefer the later with the FA12, finding it more resolving, faster and more focused (again not by much). The FA12's linear presentation lets all the good stuff through that i love about the H2, but while doing so it smooth the digital edges, adds texture and just makes everything more natural sounding. The top isnt in anyway rolled off, it just more part of the rest of the presentation, slighly sweeter and again more natural.

I wont lie i am itching to hear the FA10, (so if anyone in the UK wants to make a temporary swap for the FA12 let me know). My guess is they will be more similar than different especially running fairly easy to drive HPs, but its an itch i'd like to scratch.

It would be interesting to hear what your music preferences are, as this might give a clue to how we've ended up hearing similar kit and ending up at slightly different places.  I listen 75-80% Electronic IDM (hate that term) techno, more listening electronica than club bangers, the rest is a mix of Jazz.indie rock and everything else. My preference is to hear electronic music in as analogue manner possible, as i'm a bit of a synth geek and its just works for me that way. The FA12 with detailed DAC, as my Feliks audio euforia OTL before brings a texture and this organicity i love.

As i say it would be great to hear more, congrats again on a lovely looking rig.


----------



## tholt

funkur said:


> I've had the FA-10 for a few weeks now and I have to say, I'm incredibly impressed and happy with it.  Impression-wise, the Sandu review sums it up perfectly.
> 
> My previous setup was an Airist Heron 5, LCD-XC, NuForce DAC-80 w/ Schitt Eitr, MacBook Air source, Wireworld and Analysis Plus cables.  Back in February, I started getting the itch to re-do the setup since it had been a few years.  First up was trying the Focal Stellia, which led me to the ZMF Verite C.  Then I knew everything else had to change!  I tried a few tube amps like the Hagerman Tuba and Linear Tube Audio MZ2 (both very, very good), but I just missed the power output of solid state and was thinking about the Burson Conductor 3 when I read the first review of the FA-10 on Headphonia and figured I'd give it a try.
> 
> ...



Damn, makes me really want to hear the FA-10 on my Abyss! Do you feel it has any drawbacks or things you wish were better to your ears? Thanks for sharing.


----------



## funkur (Jul 12, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> Wow, great set up, and dont be apologetic about mentioning cables. It shouldn't really open to debate anymore as to whether they make any difference, as far i can tell after 25 years of listening, pretty much everything in hifi makes a difference, some of course bigger than others. Obviously if your system cant resolve the differences then your not going to hear them. I could change cables all day long in my office mac based system and the only one that makes any difference really is the USB. Ethernet tweaks make very little difference when streaming with a computer, theres too much other crap going on for to matter, yet in a dedicated streamer, power supply and ethernet make the biggest difference apart from the streamer itself.
> 
> Sorry thats a wormhole for another thread. I have the FA12 but have taken a very similar journey through TOTL closed backs, just with slightly different endpoint, entirely down to personal preferences, starting out with Stellias, buying the VCs blind and being initially blown away, then finding myself back at the Stellias, only to rediscover the the much maligned (mainly by me) senn HD820 which for me meet in the middle of the other two. I have the rme and Hugo2 DACs, but prefer the later with the FA12, finding it more resolving, faster and more focused (again not by much). The FA12's linear presentation lets all the good stuff through that i love about the H2, but while doing so it smooth the digital edges, adds texture and just makes everything more natural sounding. The top isnt in anyway rolled off, it just more part of the rest of the presentation, slighly sweeter and again more natural.
> 
> ...



Man, It sounds like we have a similar taste in music!  Thats hilarious (and fitting) that we went down similar paths in gear.  Damn it, I'm going to have to find a pair of HD820's to audition.  Congrats on your setup as well!   I just read your signature... a fellow OCC and cryo believer, nice.  In the UK you have more access and better pricing on Neotech, there are not as many providers here, but I'm a big fan of Audio Sensibility's cables, you should check out their website.  Since they are priced in CAD, they're an even better value for you.

I listen to a lot of 90's/early 00's IDM also.  Even though I grew up the US, I lived in Barcelona in 97-98 and was exposed to a lot of it.  I hear you on the synths!  My favorite test track is Orbital's "The Girl with the Sun in her Head" from the Satan Live set.  I've seen them a bunch of times and know exactly how it's presented live.  The most memorable hifi listening session I had with this track was with a BAT tube/ss hybrid integrated amp and Focal Utopia BE speakers.  Which IMHO, aligns with what you're describing your ideal sound signature to be.

Other favorite test tracks include the opening tracks on both volumes of Kruder and Dorfmeister K&D Sessions, Daft Punk Something About Us / Voyager / Veridis Quo, Beastie Boys "Car Thief," St Germain "Montego Bay Spleen," Radiohead OK Computer/Kid A, TOOL Aenima (96/24), RATM (the Audio Fidelity DSD remasters), and Tipper "Surrounded."

Your take on the Hugo2 vs the RME is very interesting.  In my case with the Qutest, I felt the mids were a little recessed and the RME had more weight, speed, and impact overall.  I found the imaging and sound staging comparable when using the SD LD filter on the RME, but the Chord was a hair more 3 dimensional and textured.
I'm also an admitted sub-bass addict, so being able to add a little low end when needed with the RME is a bonus too.  I think if I were comparing the 2 DACs on a 2 channel hifi setup with a sub crossed very low, I'd likely pick the Chord.  If you haven't, try listening to the RME off a 13.2V or 15V power supply.  I accidentally plugged in a 15V instead of the 12V and was taken aback by the richness of the output.  It technically is rated for 9-15V input, but it'll run quite hot.  Next tweak for me is to try a 13.2V power supply and see if the same applies but with less heat.


----------



## funkur

tholt said:


> Damn, makes me really want to hear the FA-10 on my Abyss! Do you feel it has any drawbacks or things you wish were better to your ears? Thanks for sharing.



I haven't heard the Abyss, but at this time I don't really have any complaints on the FA-10 sound-wise.  It simply sounds great to me and leaves me not wanting to try anything else at this time.  I cannot think of another SS amp I'd like to audition under $1000.  The Topping A90 personally doesn't interest me and I'm happy running SE and not balanced.  Then from there, where does one go?  HeadAmp, Violetric, Phonitor, Benchmark?  All minimum 2x the price and none as powerful.  

I'm focusing on slightly improving/tweaking the rest of my gear.  I think down the line, I may like to try the ZMF Pendant, but we're talking quite a price difference and knowing my tendencies, I don't want to get into NOS tube rolling.

I have a bit more experience in hifi than head-fi, but the FA-10 reminds me of a (quieter) version of a B&K Reference hifi amp (if anyone is familiar with those from the 90's/00's) or a slightly warmer version of a Parasound. 

I wish the physical volume control were a little better.  It's a stepped attenuator - if it stops in that tiny little hair in-between certain steps (mainly at 6 and 12 o'clock), it'll just keep making a clicking noise until you turn it the extra .01mm.  Sometimes my knee will hit it slightly and cause this. Also, when in low gain, I can't hear the attenuator steps when changing volume through the headphones, but I do slightly in medium gain.


----------



## tholt

funkur said:


> I haven't heard the Abyss, but at this time I don't really have any complaints on the FA-10 sound-wise.  It simply sounds great to me and leaves me not wanting to try anything else at this time.  I cannot think of another SS amp I'd like to audition under $1000.  The Topping A90 personally doesn't interest me and I'm happy running SE and not balanced.  Then from there, where does one go?  HeadAmp, Violetric, Phonitor, Benchmark?  All minimum 2x the price and none as powerful.
> 
> I'm focusing on slightly improving/tweaking the rest of my gear.  I think down the line, I may like to try the ZMF Pendant, but we're talking quite a price difference and knowing my tendencies, I don't want to get into NOS tube rolling.
> 
> ...



Cool, thanks. Good to know. The Sandu review basically said he liked it as much (or more?) than the HP4, which is high praise indeed. And the HPA4 is ~4x the cost. Very intrigued. Awesome that it's working out for you!


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> Cool, thanks. Good to know. The Sandu review basically said he liked it as much (or more?) than the HP4, which is high praise indeed. And the HPA4 is ~4x the cost. Very intrigued. Awesome that it's working out for you!


No he dint said he like more. Just almost as equal as the HPA-4.


----------



## VitalyDon

Strange things happen in the world. How can one compare HPA4 vs FA-10? It's like comparing top BMW and top Volvo cars, for example. Can you say which is better?


----------



## omniweltall

VitalyDon said:


> It's like comparing top BMW and top Volvo cars, for example. Can you say which is better?


Whats wrong with comparing 2 amps? And in this case, 2 desktop SS amps. Maybe I didnt get your point.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I think he's saying they're in different price ranges but that doesn't mean that they're not still cars. I think it's perfectly fair to compare them considering their purpose is the same. There are plenty of people who will cross shop volvos and bmws, just like FA-10/A90/Violectric/HPA4 etc.


----------



## omniweltall (Jul 13, 2020)

Comparison is always advised no matter the price range. This is audio we're talking. Not cars or PC. Audio is a lot more subjective. Way crazier things happen in audio world. And many times, we can't even trust our ears, let alone other people's.


----------



## gancanjam

omniweltall said:


> Comparison is always advised no matter the price range. This is audio we're talking. Not cars or PC. Audio is a lot more subjective. Way crazier things happen in audio world. And many times, we can't even trust our ears, let alone people's.


_
"we can't even trust our ears"_ - True, this happens to me now and then ..some times a great sounding HP or Amp during an audition doesn't sound that exciting once we buy it even after trying to keep the other rigs intact during audition. May be there are other non quantifiable variables like the "mood" factor   ..LOL


----------



## omniweltall (Jul 14, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> _"we can't even trust our ears"_ - True, this happens to me now and then ..some times a great sounding HP or Amp during an audition doesn't sound that exciting once we buy it even after trying to keep the other rigs intact during audition. May be there are other non quantifiable variables like the "mood" factor   ..LOL


A lot of biases come into play when we judge a gear. To name a few. How much money we spent. How long, how excited, and how much anticipation the wait was. Our mood, definitely. Most of us also try to defend the resale value of our existing gears, out of fear of losing money when selling them. All these are all too common.

To add things worse, a lot of sell-side reviewers (formal and informal) who get some kind of compensation that distort this even more. Over time, we can all see how ridiculous this hobby can get. All those glowing reviews over mediocre products.

I don't even bother to listen to people's impressions anymore, especially review sites. I only listen to people who I'm very familiar with.

On a separate note, this amp does invoke my curiosity.


----------



## gancanjam (Jul 14, 2020)

omniweltall said:


> A lot of biases come into play when we judge a gear. To name a few. How much money we spent. How long, how excited, and how much anticipation the wait was. Our mood, definitely. To add things worse, a lot of sell-side reviewers (formal and informal) who get some kind of compensation that distort this even more. Over time, we can all see how ridiculous this hobby can get. All those glowing reviews over mediocre products.
> 
> I don't even bother to listen to people's impressions anymore, especially review sites. I only listen to people who I'm very familiar with. The rest goes to my garbage bin.
> 
> On a separate note, this amp does invoke my curiosity.



"how much anticipation the wait was"  - This Flux amp certainly will sound good with the added "wait factor" as many of us have ordered and been waiting for quite a while 

i may not completely trust reviews but still love to read reviews and use reviews as guidance,   if someone says it is a "Great amp", it does not mean anything as even Schiit Magni is called as great and it does not mean it  beats another great amp like GSX MK 2 ! if someone says "Treble is too much", i think it is subjective to that person as i know many even think treble from Tube amp is hot for them while someone using transparent SS amp may call treble as tamed   Numbers don't lie but even the graphs, noise ratio etc. in my humble opinion does not describe if an amp is right for you, you may hate a DAC/amp even if it has excellent stats like SINAD etc. ... but if reviews have some comparisons & references such as someone says, Utopia has more treble details/speed/energy than Stellia then that could be some yardstick to understand how a HP/Amp can sound. I am learning to survive by reading reviews and still sailing by without being mislead


----------



## omniweltall (Jul 14, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> "how much anticipation the wait was"  - This Flux amp certainly will sound good with the added "wait factor" as many of us have ordered and been waiting for quite a while
> 
> i may not completely trust reviews but still love to read reviews and use reviews as guidance,   if someone says it is a "Great amp", it does not mean anything as even Schiit Magni is called as great and it does not mean it  beats another great amp like GSX MK 2 ! if someone says "Treble is too much", i think it is subjective to that person as i know many even think treble from Tube amp is hot for them while someone using transparent SS amp may call treble as tamed   Numbers don't lie but even the graphs, noise ratio etc. in my humble opinion does not describe if an amp is right for you, you may hate an amp even if it has excellent stats like SINAD etc. ... but if reviews have some comparisons & references such as someone says, Utopia has more treble details/speed/energy than Stellia then that could be some yardstick to understand how a HP/Amp can sound. I am learning to survive by reading reviews and still sailing by without being mislead


As long as you can filter properly, it is fine. Head fi is filled with gearphiles who are after the adrenaline rush of their next purchase. Been on that road. This hobby has a big achilles heel. The most important part of the audio chain is the music, not the gears. Lets face it. When we listen to songs we love, we will get very similar rush, regardless of the gears, even on this iem that comes with my samsung cellphone. This is from my personal experience.

Nowadays i hardly make any hardware purchase. This FA-10 is the only SS amp on my radar. I had good experience in the past with Russian and Ukrainian manufacturers. But the jury is still out there on this one.


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> Strange things happen in the world. How can one compare HPA4 vs FA-10? It's like comparing top BMW and top Volvo cars, for example. Can you say which is better?


Yes, BMW


----------



## NickT23

omniweltall said:


> A lot of biases come into play when we judge a gear. To name a few. How much money we spent. How long, how excited, and how much anticipation the wait was. Our mood, definitely. Most of us also try to defend the resale value of our existing gears, out of fear of losing money when selling them. All these are all too common.
> 
> To add things worse, a lot of sell-side reviewers (formal and informal) who get some kind of compensation that distort this even more. Over time, we can all see how ridiculous this hobby can get. All those glowing reviews over mediocre products.
> 
> ...


That biases comes from manufacturer and sponsors/reviewers. Period !


----------



## NickT23

omniweltall said:


> As long as you can filter properly, it is fine. Head fi is filled with gearphiles who are after the adrenaline rush of their next purchase. Been on that road. This hobby has a big achilles heel. The most important part of the audio chain is the music, not the gears. Lets face it. When we listen to songs we love, we will get very similar rush, regardless of the gears, even on this iem that comes with my samsung cellphone. This is from my personal experience.
> 
> Nowadays i hardly make any hardware purchase. This FA-10 is the only SS amp on my radar. And I had good experience in the past with Russian and Ukrainian manufacturers. But the jury is still out there on this one.


Nope, to them its about the gears. Best sound quality, never about the music. But for me, I never own anything other than O2 Odac till this day.


----------



## omniweltall

NickT23 said:


> Yes, BMW


I was gonna answer exactly this. Lol.


----------



## NickT23

omniweltall said:


> I was gonna answer exactly this. Lol.


Cool ! Great minds think alike.


----------



## Belialspawn

Picked up my FA-10 yesterday. It's still burning in, which is'nt hard since it runs quite warm.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Nice! How long did it take you to get yours? I didn't realize silver was also an option.


----------



## funkur

Belialspawn said:


> Picked up my FA-10 yesterday. It's still burning in, which is'nt hard since it runs quite warm.


Nice, enjoy!


----------



## Belialspawn

Any colour is an option, you just need to ask nicely.   As of right now my FA-10 is one of a kind, I asked for white but Matt silver was the quickest option; since that's what the volume + fonts usually are (inverted paint scheme).  Production was delayed for part shipments... I ordered on May 6th (apparently). it took 7days to deliver. which is pretty good under the current climate. I have other things that have been in transit for 40days traveling Europe by road..


----------



## gancanjam

Belialspawn said:


> Picked up my FA-10 yesterday. It's still burning in, which is'nt hard since it runs quite warm.



OK, one more reviewer !  please do the honors for the people here


----------



## Slim1970

Need more comparisons between the FA-10 and FA-12. Interested one of these. I'm also want to know how the bass quality and quantity, midrange and treble compares.


----------



## Belialspawn

I cant really give a great review i do not have that much experience with a wide range of gear.  Using Arya and directly comparing it to THX there is a lot more overall detail and the bass hits harder.  Running High gain at 12 o'clock its decent listening volume but creep it towards 1 and things get loud, but everything becomes more engaging.  Still letting it burn in and getting over the honeymoon period to prove itself to me. 

I have no complaints other than it being huge, you need to make room for this thing, I'm still working out a good place for it to reside and breathe properly. Also playing around with some cosmetics, I originally planned on a black one, but the gold is staying for a while..


----------



## Slim1970

Belialspawn said:


> I cant really give a great review i do not have that much experience with a wide range of gear.  Using Arya and directly comparing it to THX there is a lot more overall detail and the bass hits harder.  Running High gain at 12 o'clock its decent listening volume but creep it towards 1 and things get loud, but everything becomes more engaging.  Still letting it burn in and getting over the honeymoon period to prove itself to me.
> 
> I have no complaints other than it being huge, you need to make room for this thing, I'm still working out a good place for it to reside and breathe properly. Also playing around with some cosmetics, I originally planned on a black one, but the gold is staying for a while..


Is that the FA-12s?


----------



## Belialspawn

No its the FA-10.


----------



## NickT23

Belialspawn said:


> No its the FA-10.


How do you modified the knob ? And by the way, I also like silver plating of the anodize aluminium body of the amplifier. Nice.


----------



## Slim1970

Belialspawn said:


> No its the FA-10.


Wow, when did they start offering a silver faceplate version? I really like that color.


----------



## NickT23

Slim1970 said:


> Wow, when did they start offering a silver faceplate version? I really like that color.


Since they post on their fb page. You need to contact them through email as its not on the website.


----------



## Belialspawn

You just hold the volume tight and pull it towards you whilst holding the amp steady; it will slowly slide off of the pin. The new volume is milled Aluminium and tightens with a grub screw + small Hex key. 
You can get *all *of the New amps painted _any_ colour you want to, just need to email them / chat with Vitaliy and decide what you want after you purchase it.  I thought about the Yellow or a bright fun colour.. but its such a big beast I wanted something subtle and contrast'y that did'nt scream at my wife to hate it.


----------



## NickT23

Belialspawn said:


> You just hold the volume tight and pull it towards you whilst holding the amp steady; it will slowly slide off of the pin. The new volume is milled Aluminium and tightens with a grub screw + small Hex key.
> You can get *all *of the New amps painted _any_ colour you want to, just need to email them / chat with Vitaliy and decide what you want after you purchase it.  I thought about the Yellow or a bright fun colour.. but its such a big beast I wanted something subtle and contrast'y that did'nt scream at my wife to hate it.


Your wife hates you for liking the colour yellow ?


----------



## teknorob23

funkur said:


> Man, It sounds like we have a similar taste in music!  Thats hilarious (and fitting) that we went down similar paths in gear.  Damn it, I'm going to have to find a pair of HD820's to audition.  Congrats on your setup as well!   I just read your signature... a fellow OCC and cryo believer, nice.  In the UK you have more access and better pricing on Neotech, there are not as many providers here, but I'm a big fan of Audio Sensibility's cables, you should check out their website.  Since they are priced in CAD, they're an even better value for you.
> 
> I listen to a lot of 90's/early 00's IDM also.  Even though I grew up the US, I lived in Barcelona in 97-98 and was exposed to a lot of it.  I hear you on the synths!  My favorite test track is Orbital's "The Girl with the Sun in her Head" from the Satan Live set.  I've seen them a bunch of times and know exactly how it's presented live.  The most memorable hifi listening session I had with this track was with a BAT tube/ss hybrid integrated amp and Focal Utopia BE speakers.  Which IMHO, aligns with what you're describing your ideal sound signature to be.
> 
> ...



Sorry for slow response manic few days. This is what i love about this hobby + this forum, how often I finds others on here who's experiences track my own, but also how we end up in the same but slightly different places fine tuned to our preferences. My other half is Catalan, so i've spent quite a bit of time in Barcelona (regular at Sonar/ not so much since kids arrived) and i'm actually on my way out to a town north of there, Vic, to see family for the next 3 weeks. Trips away are where the Hugo2 comes in to its own, no with added 2Go, because it allows me to take 75% of my main set up on the road with very little compromise. Sadly the Fa12 wont be making the trip, but distance makes the heart grow and all that! 

I will definitely try the higher voltage PSU with the RME when i get back. And Yes i've been massive convert to UPOCC copper and best of all silver (when pockets allow it), first in HP cables, but subsequently in pretty much every other application you can care to mention. This stuff is incredible both in performance and value and its easy to work with. I sold off probably £3K+ worth Tellurium Q interconnects (which i had enjoyed a lot), power cables, digital and ethernet cables, replaced them with better sound performance for about £800. Still a lot i know, but it works for me. Biggest shock has been the difference solid core UPOCC silver makes when used in ethernet cable, definitely the biggest impact on my streaming apart from power supplies. Anyway thats a whole other wormhole filled with controversy 

Back to the FA10, like you i'm not really interested in amp's like the A90, not because they're any worse, but they're just not the flavour i'm looking for and if i want this super transparent, neutralish presentation, well i have it straight out of the Hugo2 with my favourite dac (under £4k TT2) attached to it.

I was lucky enough to have the HPA4/Dac3 on demo for month so i could compare it to the TT2. Its amazing, super transparent, no detail is lossed, tons of power and dynamics, but the Benchmark sound is bit overly clean and slightly emotionless to my ears when compared to the TT2, which is just effortlessly powerful and resolving all in a lovely organic sounding package. You can target in on any detail you want or let the whole thing wash over you, whereas the the BM duo felt like it was constantly showing me what it could do. I know at this level this is a comment based on preferences not performance vs performance as i have friends who's ears i trust (sort of  ) who prefer the benchmark and swear by the HPA4. I will be surprised if the Class A Fa10 sounds similar to the HPA4, but i'd love to hear from anyone who gets to hear them together.



Belialspawn said:


> I cant really give a great review i do not have that much experience with a wide range of gear.  Using Arya and directly comparing it to THX there is a lot more overall detail and the bass hits harder.  Running High gain at 12 o'clock its decent listening volume but creep it towards 1 and things get loud, but everything becomes more engaging.  Still letting it burn in and getting over the honeymoon period to prove itself to me.
> 
> I have no complaints other than it being huge, you need to make room for this thing, I'm still working out a good place for it to reside and breathe properly. Also playing around with some cosmetics, I originally planned on a black one, but the gold is staying for a while..


 Congrats looks great in silver


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry for slow response manic few days. This is what i love about this hobby + this forum, how often I finds others on here who's experiences track my own, but also how we end up in the same but slightly different places fine tuned to our preferences. My other half is Catalan, so i've spent quite a bit of time in Barcelona (regular at Sonar/ not so much since kids arrived) and i'm actually on my way out to a town north of there, Vic, to see family for the next 3 weeks. Trips away are where the Hugo2 comes in to its own, no with added 2Go, because it allows me to take 75% of my main set up on the road with very little compromise. Sadly the Fa12 wont be making the trip, but distance makes the heart grow and all that!
> 
> I will definitely try the higher voltage PSU with the RME when i get back. And Yes i've been massive convert to UPOCC copper and best of all silver (when pockets allow it), first in HP cables, but subsequently in pretty much every other application you can care to mention. This stuff is incredible both in performance and value and its easy to work with. I sold off probably £3K+ worth Tellurium Q interconnects (which i had enjoyed a lot), power cables, digital and ethernet cables, replaced them with better sound performance for about £800. Still a lot i know, but it works for me. Biggest shock has been the difference solid core UPOCC silver makes when used in ethernet cable, definitely the biggest impact on my streaming apart from power supplies. Anyway thats a whole other wormhole filled with controversy
> 
> ...


Then what is it that you dont like about this hobby ?


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry for slow response manic few days. This is what i love about this hobby + this forum, how often I finds others on here who's experiences track my own, but also how we end up in the same but slightly different places fine tuned to our preferences. My other half is Catalan, so i've spent quite a bit of time in Barcelona (regular at Sonar/ not so much since kids arrived) and i'm actually on my way out to a town north of there, Vic, to see family for the next 3 weeks. Trips away are where the Hugo2 comes in to its own, no with added 2Go, because it allows me to take 75% of my main set up on the road with very little compromise. Sadly the Fa12 wont be making the trip, but distance makes the heart grow and all that!
> 
> I will definitely try the higher voltage PSU with the RME when i get back. And Yes i've been massive convert to UPOCC copper and best of all silver (when pockets allow it), first in HP cables, but subsequently in pretty much every other application you can care to mention. This stuff is incredible both in performance and value and its easy to work with. I sold off probably £3K+ worth Tellurium Q interconnects (which i had enjoyed a lot), power cables, digital and ethernet cables, replaced them with better sound performance for about £800. Still a lot i know, but it works for me. Biggest shock has been the difference solid core UPOCC silver makes when used in ethernet cable, definitely the biggest impact on my streaming apart from power supplies. Anyway thats a whole other wormhole filled with controversy
> 
> ...


Nice write up. I have the Hugo 2 and agree with what you said about it being clean, neutral, and transparent. The TT2 give you even more of what the Hugo 2 has to offer while being slightly warmer and more natural sounding. I’m looking for a different sound from them as well. I’m trying to decide if the FA-10 or FA-12 is the flavor I’m looking for even though I have a Burson 3XR. When reading reviews of the FA-10 certain buzz words stood out. Like having more power, more bass slam and better dynamics than my 3XR. Needless to say the FA-10 has me very intrigued with its sound. But I’m still curious about the FA-12. How would you describe the FA-12’s sound compared to the Hugo 2?


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> Nice write up. I have the Hugo 2 and agree with what you said about it being clean, neutral, and transparent. The TT2 give you even more of what the Hugo 2 has to offer while being slightly warmer and more natural sounding. I’m looking for a different sound from them as well. I’m trying to decide if the FA-10 or FA-12 is the flavor I’m looking for even though I have a Burson 3XR. When reading reviews of the FA-10 certain buzz words stood out. Like having more power, more bass slam and better dynamics than my 3XR. Needless to say the FA-10 has me very intrigued with its sound. But I’m still curious about the FA-12. How would you describe the FA-12’s sound compared to the Hugo 2?



Hopefully in a few weeks time i will be able to share some comparative observations of Fa12 and FCN10, as FLA are kindly lending me the latter before it heads off on the rounds of pro reviewers in UK. 

In the meantime the Fa12 is essentially fuller, thicker and smoother sounding than the Hugo2, it loses very little in terms of resolution but injects a slightly more natural timbre and sense of coherency than i hear straight out of the H2. The different sections of the FR blend and flow in out of each other more naturally via the Fa12. Another highlight of the H2 is layer separation and sense of focus and despite the fuller sound of the fa12, this still comes through, but with added depth where the notes have more texture and shape.  I would describe the H2 as a precision tool with soul, but it can show off/ emphasise and slightly sharp edges in the music and again the Fa12 just seems to iron these out without losing any snap or clarity. There is a bit more warmth than with the TT2, but paired together FA12/Hugo2 sits somewhere between the TT2 and my ex-tube amp the Feliks Audio Euforia AE, its not quite as resolving as the TT2 but it is as resolving as FA euforia/ Hugo partnership, but just a bit more linear and transparent to the DAC.. if that makes sense? reading it back i'm not sure it does but struggling to find a better way of explaining it. The take home for me is that i prefer the some of the H2/FA12 parts to the H2 on its own, but i cant wait to hear the differences between the FA siblings. I hope this is of some use, but please let me know if theres anything specific you'd like me pick up on.


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Then what is it that you dont like about this hobby ?



my inability to distinguish it from an addiction


----------



## VitalyDon

teknorob23 said:


> Hopefully in a few weeks time i will be able to share some comparative observations of Fa12 and FCN10, as FLA are kindly lending me the latter before it heads off on the rounds of pro reviewers in UK.



Looking forward to reading your impressions about FCN-10, mein is still in production. If you don't mind, it's very interesting: 1. how it's network / streaming part is set up; 2. what software can one use to set it up; 3. can one stream, e.g., Tidal or Roon over WiFi / Ethernet? 4. is it's internal DAC good enough to 'stop worrying and start living'? 5. how smooth is it's attenuator between, say, 11 and 2 o'clock?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## teknorob23

VitalyDon said:


> Looking forward to reading your impressions about FCN-10, mein is still in production. If you don't mind, it's very interesting: 1. how it's network / streaming part is set up; 2. what software can one use to set it up; 3. can one stream, e.g., Tidal or Roon over WiFi / Ethernet? 4. is it's internal DAC good enough to 'stop worrying and start living'? 5. how smooth is it's attenuator between, say, 11 and 2 o'clock?
> 
> Thank you in advance!



I think the streamer is fairly basic, just DLNA via ethernet and Airplay via wifi . I'm a Roon user, but  i asked Vitaliy at FLA about the and sadly its not Roon Ready, but this is something they're working on for future models. The Amplifier is my primary interest, but i'm very intrigued to hear how the DAC stage measures up too. For the record i havent experienced any issues the volume on the FA12, it appears to operate in a linear manner, again it will be interesting to see if the FCn10 operates differently.  I'm away for 3 weeks so you should hopefully find out before me anyway.


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Hopefully in a few weeks time i will be able to share some comparative observations of Fa12 and FCN10, as FLA are kindly lending me the latter before it heads off on the rounds of pro reviewers in UK.
> 
> In the meantime the Fa12 is essentially fuller, thicker and smoother sounding than the Hugo2, it loses very little in terms of resolution but injects a slightly more natural timbre and sense of coherency than i hear straight out of the H2. The different sections of the FR blend and flow in out of each other more naturally via the Fa12. Another highlight of the H2 is layer separation and sense of focus and despite the fuller sound of the fa12, this still comes through, but with added depth where the notes have more texture and shape.  I would describe the H2 as a precision tool with soul, but it can show off/ emphasise and slightly sharp edges in the music and again the Fa12 just seems to iron these out without losing any snap or clarity. There is a bit more warmth than with the TT2, but paired together FA12/Hugo2 sits somewhere between the TT2 and my ex-tube amp the Feliks Audio Euforia AE, its not quite as resolving as the TT2 but it is as resolving as FA euforia/ Hugo partnership, but just a bit more linear and transparent to the DAC.. if that makes sense? reading it back i'm not sure it does but struggling to find a better way of explaining it. The take home for me is that i prefer the some of the H2/FA12 parts to the H2 on its own, but i cant wait to hear the differences between the FA siblings. I hope this is of some use, but please let me know if theres anything specific you'd like me pick up on.


Thanks for the impressions. The H2 is great at driving low impedance, warmer sounding headphones like the LCD-4z and Empyreans on its own. But I like the H2 as a DAC only with my Liquid Platinum as well. It’s a great match for warm sounding gear as well. So I get the point you’re trying to make with the FA-12/Hugo 2 pairing. They work well together because the complement each other sound wise. I wonder if the FA-10 would be a better match at preserving the transparency levels of Chord DACs but giving a full bodied, detailed, hard hitting sound?


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> my inability to distinguish it from an addiction


Why did you decided to sell your FA-12 at first ?


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Why did you decided to sell your FA-12 at first ?



I’m not sell the fa12


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> I’m not sell the fa12


Yes, but you wanted to sell. Why at first you wanted to sell ?


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Yes, but you wanted to sell. Why at first you wanted to sell ?



I might have written unclear post but I’ve not thought about selling it


----------



## teknorob23 (Jul 16, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks for the impressions. The H2 is great at driving low impedance, warmer sounding headphones like the LCD-4z and Empyreans on its own. But I like the H2 as a DAC only with my Liquid Platinum as well. It’s a great match for warm sounding gear as well. So I get the point you’re trying to make with the FA-12/Hugo 2 pairing. They work well together because the complement each other sound wise. I wonder if the FA-10 would be a better match at preserving the transparency levels of Chord DACs but giving a full bodied, detailed, hard hitting sound?



It’ll be very interesting to hear the 10 and compare, but I should clarify i haven’t lost any of the h2’s low end grunt or dynamism and the 12 has plenty of slam too. I definitely wouldn’t call it laid back. In that sense it’s pretty transparent allowing dynamics to come through


----------



## Harmonyx

Thank you for everyone's impressions and thoughts so far. Some appealing products indeed! 

This thread has been a very interesting read and helped convince me Flux Labs could be making some of the most powerful and highest performing amps in this price range (and significantly higher). To me, that is very exciting. 

The FA-12 and FA-12S amps are very intriguing to me as I plan to use with a pair of QUAD ERA-1 headphones. 
I'd be very grateful if anyone from UK can let me know if they have had to pay import duty fees when ordering from Ukraine to UK please? 

I'm also wondering which DAC (under £1k) might match well with the FA-10 / FA-12 / FA-12S. I currently own a Topping D70 and was looking at potential upgrade options (Topping D90 or Denafrips Ares II perhaps). 
Looks like some have found synergy with the Chord DACs... 
Thanks


----------



## denniswaugh

My FA10 has been stuck in Kiev "Prepared for despatch to the UK" since 28/6. As soon as I receive a customs notification from Parcelforce I'll  let you know the import charges.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

"Quarantined" maybe.....


----------



## Harmonyx

denniswaugh said:


> My FA10 has been stuck in Kiev "Prepared for despatch to the UK" since 28/6. As soon as I receive a customs notification from Parcelforce I'll  let you know the import charges.



Hope you receive your amp soon! Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the FA-10 and how it passes through customs...


----------



## teknorob23

Harmonyx said:


> Thank you for everyone's impressions and thoughts so far. Some appealing products indeed!
> 
> This thread has been a very interesting read and helped convince me Flux Labs could be making some of the most powerful and highest performing amps in this price range (and significantly higher). To me, that is very exciting.
> 
> ...


 
Being one of the “some”  I do of course have to recommend the qutest if you can stretch to it. I have now tried my rme which is normally in my office and can confirm this is also a good match as it’s not a million miles from then chord presentation. The fa12 and from what I can gather 10 is pretty linear so it benefits from being partnered with something that has a a bit of punch, which the H2 has in spades, likewise the chords detail, layering and based on other DACs I’ve heard the separation is unmatched below 2/3k, which is also an ideal counter for the full bodied fa12. The denafrips and topping couldn’t be more different with the ares being sweet and and musical with lovely natural r2r style presentation, but it may be a little bit too similar to the fa12, that said it’s a pairing I’d Like to hear nonetheless. I’ve only had a brief listen to the d90 on someone else’s rig but owned the dx70pro for a few months. Technically very impressive, but super linear and lacked low end grunt of the chords, so again for me it could leave the fa12 sounding a little Laid back. The toppings are great value but so far they’ve left me a bit cold. For my money I’ve not found many set ups the chord DACs don’t excel in. 

On the importing front, if you speak to FLA they’ll do what they can to help mitigate duties.


----------



## Slim1970

Has anyone tried the RME ADI-2 DAC FS with the FA-10? I’ll be ordering one in the coming days and I’m thinking this is the DAC I’m going to pair it with. Of course, I’m going to try it with the Hugo 2 and TT2 as well, but the latter two might be too much of a good thing.


----------



## Harmonyx (Jul 27, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> Being one of the “some”  I do of course have to recommend the qutest if you can stretch to it. I have now tried my rme which is normally in my office and can confirm this is also a good match as it’s not a million miles from then chord presentation. The fa12 and from what I can gather 10 is pretty linear so it benefits from being partnered with something that has a a bit of punch, which the H2 has in spades, likewise the chords detail, layering and based on other DACs I’ve heard the separation is unmatched below 2/3k, which is also an ideal counter for the full bodied fa12. The denafrips and topping couldn’t be more different with the ares being sweet and and musical with lovely natural r2r style presentation, but it may be a little bit too similar to the fa12, that said it’s a pairing I’d Like to hear nonetheless. I’ve only had a brief listen to the d90 on someone else’s rig but owned the dx70pro for a few months. Technically very impressive, but super linear and lacked low end grunt of the chords, so again for me it could leave the fa12 sounding a little Laid back. The toppings are great value but so far they’ve left me a bit cold. For my money I’ve not found many set ups the chord DACs don’t excel in.
> 
> On the importing front, if you speak to FLA they’ll do what they can to help mitigate duties.



Thanks for the reply Teknorob23! Very helpful...

Yes, the Chord DACs have always intrigued me... The Chord Qutest has been on my radar and, funnily enough, the RME ADI-2 as well. The Chord DACs I have heard at CanJam, etc, and my local dealership, were super clean, honest and impressive. Would love to trial the Qutest and RME ADI-2 in my setup one day to see which is victorious.

I've been obsessing a bit over the Denafrips for a while though... Character wise, it is very appealing. However, I fear you may be correct in that it won't be a complimentary fit with FA-12... (Too much of a good thing).
I agree, I would be happy to find out how they sound together. (Who knows, perhaps the Denafrips would pair better with the FA-10?).

I've recently switched from the Schiit Modi Multibit to the Topping D70, sporting their previous AK44972 chip, and have been pleasantly surprised.

The Topping D90's AK4499 chip is supposedly a significant upgrade, having a more natural sound in comparison to their previous ESS Sabre models, but also able to provide a very punchy and authoritative sound.


----------



## tesox

Today my FA-10 arrived, finally . It's a real beauty and very well build.
I won't do a detailed review but share my basic impressions after a few days. For a full review my english skills are not enough.
I will compare it against the mighty Phonitor X (best SS amp I know so far) but only with my LCD-3 (late 2018 fazor drivers),
the headphone I bought this amp for. 
Route will be: PC (foobar / ASIO USB) -> Mutec MC3+ USB -> ADI-2 DAC (coax) -> Phonitor X (XLR/slave through) -> FA-10 (XLR)

My inital hope was that the FA-10 will kick my LCD-3 in the butt and push a bit more dynamics and bass control into that laid-back hp,
but I'm not quite sure anymore  , we will see ...








The color is "champagne" if you may wonder.


----------



## tholt

tesox said:


> The color is "champagne" if you may wonder.


Love that color. That would be my choice.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Does the FA-10 not live up to your expectation? Does it seem a lot worse than the phonitor?


----------



## gto88

Phonitor X  is 3x  price of FA-10, I am curious about the comparison.


----------



## rmsanger

gto88 said:


> Phonitor X  is 3x  price of FA-10, I am curious about the comparison.


I have the phonitor e bought used cheaper that FA10 will report back later this summer with comparisons.

also btw that champagne color is great!


----------



## tesox

driftingbunnies said:


> Does the FA-10 not live up to your expectation? Does it seem a lot worse than the phonitor?



I heard not a single note until now. FA-10 is still warming up.
The comments in this thread and from Flux Lab made me uncertain if it was the right choice.

@gto88 
I don't think the price of the Phonitor is relevant. You pay manly for the complex pro-functionality,
the good name and "made in germany". The FA-10 is pure amplification (ok, with gain switch) 
"made in ukraine". If the same amp had been released by SPL or Violectric it would be 2-3K.


----------



## gto88

Agree, looking forward to your impression.


----------



## teknorob23

tesox said:


> Today my FA-10 arrived, finally . It's a real beauty and very well build.
> I won't do a detailed review but share my basic impressions after a few days. For a full review my english skills are not enough.
> I will compare it against the mighty Phonitor X (best SS amp I know so far) but only with my LCD-3 (late 2018 fazor drivers),
> the headphone I bought this amp for.
> ...



Congrats and can’t wait to hear whaf you think


----------



## 2a3tube

teknorob23 said:


> Congrats and can’t wait to hear whaf you think


Will somebody please, cancel my ads. I don't know how.
Thanks in advance,
Ben


----------



## Harmonyx

tesox said:


> Today my FA-10 arrived, finally . It's a real beauty and very well build.
> I won't do a detailed review but share my basic impressions after a few days. For a full review my english skills are not enough.
> I will compare it against the mighty Phonitor X (best SS amp I know so far) but only with my LCD-3 (late 2018 fazor drivers),
> the headphone I bought this amp for.
> ...




Very nice setup and love the colour choice. 

Have you had a chance to listen to the QUAD ERA-1 headphones with the FA-10 yet? 

Would really appreciate your impressions. 
Thanks


----------



## cfranchi

I have finally received my FA-10, the amp is quite nice however I have a problem, there is no sound...

I have plugged all the cables, they all fit securely, but I have a doubt about my SE cable : take a look at the photograph, the cable should fit completely around the SE inputs ? Actually it is not, and so I wonder if the signal is going to the amp.

Ideas are welcome...


----------



## tesox

cfranchi said:


> I have finally received my FA-10, the amp is quite nice however I have a problem, there is no sound...
> 
> I have plugged all the cables, they all fit securely, but I have a doubt about my SE cable : take a look at the photograph, the cable should fit completely around the SE inputs ? Actually it is not, and so I wonder if the signal is going to the amp.
> 
> Ideas are welcome...



There is definitely no proper connection. If you can't plug it correctly with a little force, go and get another cable.



Harmonyx said:


> Very nice setup and love the colour choice.
> 
> Have you had a chance to listen to the QUAD ERA-1 headphones with the FA-10 yet?
> 
> ...



Yes I did, will share my impressions tomorrow.


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 27, 2020)

tesox said:


> There is definitely no proper connection. If you can't plug it correctly with a little force, go and get another cable.



So you confirm that my cable should fit more around the SE plug ?

If someone has a photograph, like mine, to show....


----------



## cfranchi

Ok my cable is now OK, I have pushed it with more force  it fits the input plug completely


----------



## rmsanger

Didn't somebody write earlier in this thread that the input must match the output?   E.g. if you connect with RCAs you must use the unbalance HP output and if you connect with balanced inputs you must used balanced outputs?

Is it possible that the RCAs are just fine but the problem is you're using the Balanced HP output?


----------



## tesox

rmsanger said:


> Didn't somebody write earlier in this thread that the input must match the output?   E.g. if you connect with RCAs you must use the unbalance HP output and if you connect with balanced inputs you must used balanced outputs?
> 
> Is it possible that the RCAs are just fine but the problem is you're using the Balanced HP output?



No, thats not right. What you mean was a comment about FA-12.


----------



## rmsanger

tesox said:


> No, thats not right. What you mean was a comment about FA-12.


woops I thought it applied to both FA-10 & FA-12, my bad.


----------



## cfranchi

Some early impressions about my FA-10, I just listened briefly to 2-3 songs, more to come in a few days.

The amp is a bit more little than expected, it feels nicely dense and heavy, the chassis is pretty nice, better than what you can see on pictures (where it feels a bit like a ´diy’ amp).

I’m listening at 1 o´clock / high gain with my Hifiman HE6se, the sound is absurdly clean (DAC is Chord Mojo) and controlled, I was expecting more punch however (but again I just listened very briefly). Take note that I never used  HE6se with other amps so I can’t compare to anything.


----------



## teknorob23

cfranchi said:


> Some early impressions about my FA-10, I just listened briefly to 2-3 songs, more to come in a few days.
> 
> The amp is a bit more little than expected, it feels nicely dense and heavy, the chassis is pretty nice, better than what you can see on pictures (where it feels a bit like a ´diy’ amp).
> 
> I’m listening at 1 o´clock / high gain with my Hifiman HE6se, the sound is absurdly clean (DAC is Chord Mojo) and controlled, I was expecting more punch however (but again I just listened very briefly). Take note that I never used  HE6se with other amps so I can’t compare to anything.



If it’s anything like the 12 it will need a good 150+ until it’s really at its best. Class A amps always take some running in. Looking  forward to hearing more


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 27, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> If it’s anything like the 12 it will need a good 150+ until it’s really at its best. Class A amps always take some running in. Looking  forward to hearing more



Well, I don’t believe too much in SS amp burnin, but hey why not!


----------



## teknorob23

cfranchi said:


> Well, I don’t believe too much in SS amp burnin, but hey why not!



The proof is in the hearing


----------



## tesox (Jul 28, 2020)

Here are my impressions after 2 days of intensive listening and comparing to my Phonitor X:

*Preview:*
The FA-10 is one of the best amplifiers I've heard so far and that have been quite
a few in more than 10 years I'm into this hobby. Please keep that in mind!!!

It reminds me of the iFi Pro iCAN with a more defined and powerful low end performance.
Compared to the Phonitor X I have to admit that the Phonitor does everything
a bit better, but thats no surprise for me. The single ended output of the Phonitor
sounds closer to the FA-10 but the balanced output pulls ahead in every aspect.

I will try to show up my findings in short words:

*Build Quality and Operation:*
Quality of the case is outstanding. It‘s build like a tank.
The frontplate is beautiful and the color and labeling without any flaws.
Connection elements are mostly of high quality and the volume knob and switches
feel rock solid. The volume knob could take some more resistance when turning it.
The Phonitors housing is made of thinner sheet, some connection
elements in the backplate are cheap standard (single ended/mains) and are
not really stable attached. It‘s a shame.

*Bass:*
FA-10's Bass is fast and full sounding. It goes very low but is a hint more prominent
in the midbass region. Punch is very good but not dry. The Phonitor has a flater
response and is more controlled. This translates to a slightly punchier and dryer mid bass
and more low level information at all.

*Mids:*
The Mids are rich and pleasing. They have a seamless connection to the mid/upper bass wich
leads to the overall full-bodied character of the FA-10. Again, the Phonitor presents
a more neutral midrange with better detail retrieval.

*Treble:*
The FA-10's treble is silky and smooth without any hint of harshness. The body and weigth
of the midrange is still apparent in this region. This means it sounds not thin in a good way.
There are many planars with a light and weightless treble reproduction wich would
benefit from that. The Phonitor is smooth in this region too but a little more crisp and
there is more "air" and surprise-surprise more detail.

*Soundstage and Layering:*
The FA-10 delivers a coherent natural musical experience.
Width of the soundstage is very good, height also.
The depth is fine but not the strongest part of the presentation.
Layering is decent and clearly above average but everything is still connected
as a whole, difficult to describe.
This is the one point where the Phonitors professional roots are obvious.
The soundstage dimensions are not necessarily greater but especially in the depth
there are better defined layers and there's more space between every single sound/instrument.
The ammount of air in the highs leaves more space for the room information wich
improves the three-dimensional approach of each sonic event.

*Conclusion:*
All together the FA-10 is really exellent and every time I switched to
the Phonitor I was really surprised because I enjoyed the FA-10's sound so
much that I could hardly imagine any kind of improvement. 

_______________________________________________________________________________


The time I ordered the FA-10 I thought it to be more of a raw beast slightly on the cold
side, based on the early reviews/comments. Now it shows up as a very refined amp tuned
slightly more towads the warm and smooth side. This is not what I need at this point
for my already smooth and full sounding LCD-3.
I need an amp with a dry and controlled but realy hard punch,
combined with a flat midrange and untamed treble, to inject new life to my LCD-3
wich is not in use anymore because it has gotten somewhat boring over time.


So there is only one logic solution:

I will sell my FA-10 ... but only inside EU (sorry!).
Everyone who is interested, feel free to contact me.


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 28, 2020)

tesox said:


> Here are my impressions after 2 days of intensive listening and comparing to my Phonitor X:
> 
> *Preview:*
> The FA-10 is one of the best amplifiers I've heard so far and that have been quite
> ...



Maybe get the more linear FA-10 PRO ?


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Maybe get the more linear FA-10 PRO ?


That's what I'm thinking he needs. I ordered the standard FA-10 because I wanted to invoke some musicality into my headphones.


----------



## Bhk1004

I dont think either is what he is looking for tbh. He wants more treble and bass essentially from what what I gather from his review. Think EQ or new headphones is what would benefit him most. Dont think there is really an amp that has screaming trebles and elevated bass? Or maybe I am misunderstanding. The pro I think will just lean the FA10 closer to his phonitor and create redundancy.


----------



## cfranchi

Bhk1004 said:


> The pro I think will just lean the FA10 closer to his phonitor and create redundancy.



Good point, I think its quite amazing that Flux has created such quality amps far less expensive than big names.


----------



## tesox (Jul 28, 2020)

Bhk1004 said:


> I dont think either is what he is looking for tbh. He wants more treble and bass essentially from what what I gather from his review. Think EQ or new headphones is what would benefit him most. Dont think there is really an amp that has screaming trebles and elevated bass? Or maybe I am misunderstanding. The pro I think will just lean the FA10 closer to his phonitor and create redundancy.



I don't look for more, I look for another kind of bass and treble. The sound description of the FA10-Pro could fit.
It's all about synergy and for my taste the LCD-3 needs an amp wich is dead neutral especially at the midrange
with punchy but super controlled bass and very airy treble. Maybe the FA-10 Pro is to close to the Phonitor,
but I find the Phonitor is also on the smooth side but with better layering and more detail.


----------



## Bhk1004

tesox said:


> I don't look for more, I look for another kind of bass and treble. The sound description of the FA10-Pro could fit.
> It's all about synergy and for my taste the LCD-3 needs an amp wich is dead neutral especially at the midrange
> with punchy but super controlled bass and very airy treble.


Let me know when you find what you are looking for! Would love to hear what you are chasing as I have lcd3 as well.


----------



## teknorob23

tesox said:


> I don't look for more, I look for another kind of bass and treble. The sound description of the FA10-Pro could fit.
> It's all about synergy and for my taste the LCD-3 needs an amp wich is dead neutral especially at the midrange
> with punchy but super controlled bass and very airy treble. Maybe the FA-10 Pro is to close to the Phonitor x
> but I find the Phonitor is also on the smooth side but with better layering and more detail.



Really interesting impressions and good to read a comparison with the phonitor x. Having owned the lcd3 I think you may have trouble finding an amp that can change the laid back characteristics of these headphones. Out of interest what sort of music do you favour?


----------



## tesox

teknorob23 said:


> Really interesting impressions and good to read a comparison with the phonitor x. Having owned the lcd3 I think you may have trouble finding an amp that can change the laid back characteristics of these headphones. Out of interest what sort of music do you favour?



I listen 95% to electronic music only, not that comercial BS. Everything from ambient, highly complex experimental stuff, synthwave, dub-techno to oldschool dirty acid.


----------



## tholt

tesox said:


> I need an amp with a dry and controlled but realy hard punch,
> combined with a flat midrange and untamed treble, to inject new life to my LCD-3
> wich is not in use anymore because it has gotten somewhat boring over time.



Sounds like you should be looking at something like a HeadAmp GSX-mkII or maybe the Drop THX 789 -- opposite ends of the price spectrum but everything I've read about these two in particular says that they are neutral, perhaps even a touch cool, and fast.



tesox said:


> I listen 95% to electronic music only, not that comercial BS. Everything from ambient, highly complex experimental stuff, synthwave, dub-techno to oldschool dirty acid.



Nice... What are your favorite groups/DJs? I'm always on the hunt for new and worthwhile electronic.


----------



## iFi audio (Jul 28, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> Maybe get the more linear FA-10 PRO ?



What's the difference between the standard FA-10 and FA-10 PRO? I haven't seen the PRO at the manufacturer's site...


----------



## teknorob23

tesox said:


> I listen 95% to electronic music only, not that comercial BS. Everything from ambient, highly complex experimental stuff, synthwave, dub-techno to oldschool dirty acid.



Small world majority of my listening is techno/ idm, autechre to Beatrice Dillon, Jon Hopkins, four tet, barker, Jeff Mills, etc. II spent most of the 90s and early 00s playing much harder techno, Detroit and acid in fields and warehouses. Have you ever tried the lcd3’s straight out of a hugo2, as that was the closest I got to what you describe looking for with the lcd3.


----------



## tesox (Jul 28, 2020)

tholt said:


> Sounds like you should be looking at something like a HeadAmp GSX-mkII or maybe the Drop THX 789 -- opposite ends of the price spectrum but everything I've read about these two in particular says that they are neutral, perhaps even a touch cool, and fast.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice... What are your favorite groups/DJs? I'm always on the hunt for new and worthwhile electronic.



That would be a veeeery long list to cover every sub genre and changes from time to time.
But one example: A label wich I realy enjoy nearly every release of is hypnus records. Highly recommended!



teknorob23 said:


> Small world majority of my listening is techno/ idm, autechre to Beatrice Dillon, Jon Hopkins, four tet, barker, Jeff Mills, etc. II spent most of the 90s and early 00s playing much harder techno, Detroit and acid in fields and warehouses. Have you ever tried the lcd3’s straight out of a hugo2, as that was the closest I got to what you describe looking for with the lcd3.



Sounds familiar. Saw Mills live in the early 90's. I think it was in a club in Kassel(Germany) but I'm not shure (the 90's are a bit blurred if you know what I mean ...) 
He just destroyed the crowd with 3 turntables continious playing. Mindblowing!
I don't tried the hugo, but I also don't like this kind of devices. I'm looking for a full size desktop amp. Used my Mojo just at Can Jams and Munich High End so far.


----------



## cfranchi

iFi audio said:


> What's the difference between the standard FA-10 and FA-10 PRO? I haven't seen the PRO at the manufacturer's site...



https://m.facebook.com/pg/fluxlabacoustics/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0


----------



## Mediahound

Is Flux more of a warm sounding amp or on the bright side? How does it compare with the Violectric v281?


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 30, 2020)

Mediahound said:


> Is Flux more of a warm sounding amp or on the bright side? How does it compare with the Violectric v281?



I wouldn’t say that FA-10 is warm, certainly it is not bright, for me it is a balanced and natural amp (I use FA-10 with Chord Mojo as DAC and Hifiman HE6se) : at least I don’t see any significant bump, even mid bass bump, if there is, is not obvious for me.


----------



## NickT23

Mediahound said:


> Is Flux more of a warm sounding amp or on the bright side? How does it compare with the Violectric v281?


Easy comparison. Both going for nuetral presentation. Being class A, so even though Flux is linear,  they have these fuller class A power warthm to the sound, while Violetric V281 is also  linear but more analytical. Depends on preference and synergy level that based on your  headphone possession.


----------



## Mediahound

NickT23 said:


> Easy comparison. Both going for nuetral presentation. Being class A, so even though Flux is linear,  they have these fuller class A power warthm to the sound, while Violetric V281 is also  linear but more analytical. Depends on preference and synergy level that based on your  headphone possession.



Thanks. Interesting because the V281 it typically describe is quite warm and even perhaps a bit dark sounding.


----------



## NickT23

Mediahound said:


> Thanks. Interesting because the V281 it typically describe is quite warm and even perhaps a bit dark sounding.


perhaps they use LCD-3 with it. V281 is true to the reference sound, somewhat. But to certain degree I would avoid it, thats my personal opinion.


----------



## rmsanger (Jul 30, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> I wouldn’t say that FA-10 is warm, certainly it is not bright, for me it is a balanced and natural amp (I use FA-10 with Chord Mojo as DAC and Hifiman HE6se) : at least I don’t see any significant bump, even mid bass bump, if there is, is not obvious for me.


Just a shot in the dark.. Have you tried using your HE6's out of a speaker amp straight out of the speaker taps?   I'm on the fence and thinking of just running my Abyss straight from speaker amp (custom Bananas -> XLR cable) or buying an FA-10.

Just wondering your thoughts on the quality of power from FA-10 and your experience (if any) with a full size speaker amp.


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 30, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Just wondering your thoughts on the quality of power from FA-10 and your experience (if any) with a full size speaker amp.



I just spent the day with the FA-10 and the HE6se, I want to go back to what I said earlier.  The HE6se is a headset that requires maximum engagement and pushes to turn up the volume, and in this case the FA-10 ensures, it has the juice that is needed for sure, it hits hard, I feel it even in the chest!  The reverb effects on live performances are startling, and the soundstage can get very large if the recording was intended like this.  At the same time the sound is not colorful, it is really balanced and very realistic.

In short, I do not know what other amps are worth but to make the very difficult Hifiman singing, the Flux is sure to be: $ 750, holy cow, in blind tests the amps at several thousand euros would have hard work for sure.

PS: I don’t have any experience with speaker amps.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Has anyone compared this amp with the XIAudio Formual S and possibly with the powerman as well? I am on the fence and it would be great if this was on par with the formula s and could drive my abyss. I could sell the formula then and possibly save some money.


----------



## cfranchi

CreditingKarma said:


> Has anyone compared this amp with the XIAudio Formual S and possibly with the powerman as well? I am on the fence and it would be great if this was on par with the formula s and could drive my abyss. I could sell the formula then and possibly save some money.



Seems that the Formula S is a neutral amp? In this case maybe I would get FA-10 pro if I were you, even if, for me, FA-10 is not a colored amp.


----------



## tholt

NickT23 said:


> Violetric V281 is also linear but more analytical.



I would not call the V281 analytical at all. 



Mediahound said:


> Thanks. Interesting because the V281 it typically describe is quite warm and even perhaps a bit dark sounding.



It is. Warmish, a tad soft and slow IME.


----------



## Mediahound

tholt said:


> I would not call the V281 analytical at all.
> 
> 
> 
> It is. Warmish, a tad soft and slow IME.



So the question is, is the Flux even darker sounding?


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> I would not call the V281 analytical at all.
> 
> 
> 
> It is. Warmish, a tad soft and slow IME.


Not saying analytical but comparing to others amp it somewhat to the analytical side


----------



## cfranchi

Mediahound said:


> So the question is, is the Flux even darker sounding?



The Flux is not dark at all


----------



## tholt

rmsanger said:


> I'm on the fence and thinking of just running my Abyss straight from speaker amp (custom Bananas -> XLR cable) or buying an FA-10.



What speaker amp were you thinking?


----------



## rmsanger

tholt said:


> What speaker amp were you thinking?



I currently have a Hegel H160 running my Maggies...   I can buy a custom cable (10 feet) that runs bananas to XLR for around ~$350 or I can buy a FA-10 for $750.   So just not sure what to expect on the quality of power from FA-10 but Hegel has pretty good quality of power supply and great damping factor which benefits the maggis (stable down to  2ohms) but not sure what that does at 47 ohms.

My primary headphones of concern are Abyss 1266 Phi TC.


----------



## NickT23

cfranchi said:


> The Flux is not dark at all


FA-10 nuetral with Class A sound to it. Meatier and fuller sound, powerful.


----------



## tholt

rmsanger said:


> I currently have a Hegel H160 running my Maggies...   I can buy a custom cable (10 feet) that runs bananas to XLR for around ~$350 or I can buy a FA-10 for $750.   So just not sure what to expect on the quality of power from FA-10 but Hegel has pretty good quality of power supply and great damping factor which benefits the maggis (stable down to  2ohms) but not sure what that does at 47 ohms.
> 
> My primary headphones of concern are Abyss 1266 Phi TC.



I was interested in integrated amps briefly for my Abyss 1266 Phi. I tried two. The issue I ran into with both was too much gain, presumably due to the higher impedance of the Abyss vs 4-8Ω speakers. Others have had luck with certain speaker amps + Abyss; I'm not sure of a way to guarantee good results based on specs.


----------



## rmsanger

tholt said:


> I was interested in integrated amps briefly for my Abyss 1266 Phi. I tried two. The issue I ran into with both was too much gain, presumably due to the higher impedance of the Abyss vs 4-8Ω speakers. Others have had luck with certain speaker amps + Abyss; I'm not sure of a way to guarantee good results based on specs.



much appreciated so have you paired the FA-10 with the 1266 ?  If so what are your thoughts?


----------



## iFi audio

cfranchi said:


> https://m.facebook.com/pg/fluxlabacoustics/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0



Much appreciated


----------



## Slim1970

CreditingKarma said:


> Has anyone compared this amp with the XIAudio Formual S and possibly with the powerman as well? I am on the fence and it would be great if this was on par with the formula s and could drive my abyss. I could sell the formula then and possibly save some money.


I just ordered me one of these after selling my Burson 3XR for this very reason. Plus it seems like the FA-10 is an improvement all the way around after reading a few reviews.  I’ll have my Abyss TC’s soon. Hopefully they’ll arrive at the same time.


----------



## Mediahound

I wish there was a USA distributor.


----------



## driftingbunnies (Jul 31, 2020)

Just got mine in today. Ordered July 4th


----------



## cfranchi

I have put my impressions at Flux website

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa10/


----------



## NickT23

Slim1970 said:


> I just ordered me one of these after selling my Burson 3XR for this very reason. Plus it seems like the FA-10 is an improvement all the way around after reading a few reviews.  I’ll have my Abyss TC’s soon. Hopefully they’ll arrive at the same time.


Its so sad  that the community have  to listen to each other impression just because  most of us unable to demo or auditioned in a quiet proper environtment. Anyway, I thought you already have  the Susvara ?


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> I would not call the V281 analytical at all.
> 
> 
> 
> It is. Warmish, a tad soft and slow IME.



+1 this matched my experience with the v281 using elegia and stellias.


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> +1 this matched my experience with the v281 using elegia and stellias.


Fair enough. Anyway, why suddenly you dont feel like selling the FA12 anymore ?


----------



## teknorob23

driftingbunnies said:


> Just got mine in today. Ordered July 4th



Congrats hope it’s worth the wait and I see it’s in very very good company


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> Congrats hope it’s worth the wait and I see it’s in very very good company


Indicating that most company are full of greed somewhat


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Fair enough. Anyway, why suddenly you dont feel like selling the FA12 anymore ?



No, well atleast not until I’ve compared it to the fa10. I’m in Spain at the moment, not back in the UK for another week, but I gather my government have decided I need to spend 14 days in quarantine on my return, so fingers crossed it will arrive for that!


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> No, well atleast not until I’ve compared it to the fa10. I’m in Spain at the moment, not back in the UK for another week, but I gather my government have decided I need to spend 14 days in quarantine on my return, so fingers crossed it will arrive for that!


Ok thank you ! finally ... Yeah everyone lately has been obsessing the  difference, now talking about the FA12S and FA10 Pro, things are getting confusing !


----------



## Slim1970

NickT23 said:


> Its so sad  that the community have  to listen to each other impression just because  most of us unable to demo or auditioned in a quiet proper environtment. Anyway, I thought you already have  the Susvara ?



Yep, I have the Susvara’s and I’m adding the Abyss Phi TC’s to my collection as probably my last headphone purchase for awhile. I’ll have the top 2 best headphones I’ve heard in my possession to tryout the FA-10. Honestly speaking, these two headphones can probably replace everything in my collection, but I like having options . The FA-10 will be handling amp duties along with my modded Liquid Platinum.

I agree with you about trying out gear. There is no place in my hometown that I can demo gear of any kind. So majority of my purchases are done blindly. I’m constantly buying, selling, trading gear as a way to listen to see if it fits into my ideal sound signature. I have high hopes for the FA-10. I‘m hoping it can deliver the dynamics, punch, and musicality I’m looking for in an amp. The 3XR was really close. Except it didn’t have the low end grunt to make the bass come alive. My Cavalli Liquid Carbon 2.0 was excellent at delivering bass and midrange but lacked refinement. The FA-10 from what I’ve been reading seems to delivery all of these sound qualities in a solid state amp, hence my excitement.


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Indicating that most company are full of greed somewhat



My comment was far less existential
ad I was referring to the lovely feliks audio euforia


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> My comment was far less existential
> ad I was referring to the lovely feliks audio euforia


Did you get the FCN-10 yet to demo?


----------



## tholt

rmsanger said:


> much appreciated so have you paired the FA-10 with the 1266 ?  If so what are your thoughts?



Have not heard the FA-10 yet. But as it happens, will be visiting @gancanjam today who has just received the FCN-10 and has graciously invited me over to try it with my Abyss. Will share my impressions.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> Did you get the FCN-10 yet to demo?



Yes FLA have very generously let me try the one they’re shipping to the UK before it’s reviewed by various magazines and websites


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Yes FLA have very generously let me try the one they’re shipping to the UK before it’s reviewed by various magazines and websites


What are your thoughts on it compared to the FA-12


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> My comment was far less existential
> ad I was referring to the lovely feliks audio euforia


Well, yes I know that. But what I said regarding my comment is true and saddening.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> What are your thoughts on it compared to the FA-12



I haven’t received it yet but I’ll be sure to share my thoughts as soon as I have the 2 together


----------



## rmsanger

tholt said:


> Have not heard the FA-10 yet. But as it happens, will be visiting @gancanjam today who has just received the FCN-10 and has graciously invited me over to try it with my Abyss. Will share my impressions.


K details !


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> Have not heard the FA-10 yet. But as it happens, will be visiting @gancanjam today who has just received the FCN-10 and has graciously invited me over to try it with my Abyss. Will share my impressions.


How do you know where gancanjam leave ? So how is it possible ?


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 3, 2020)

Great session with @tholt who came over to my house few days back with his Abyss 1266 Phi HP.  We auditioned the audiophile Trinity HPs i.e. Abyss 1266 Phi, Focal Utopia and Hifiman HE1000 V1 with Flux FCN-10 (DAC/Amp) which is equivalent of FA-10.  With Abyss 1266 Phi, @tholt is listening in using my FCN-10 this week and he will share the impressions later this week with Abyss 1266 Phi. I can share detailed impressions of FCN-10 & Focal Utopia and comparing that to a Neutral transparent amp & Focal Utopia in a day.


----------



## NickT23

gancanjam said:


> Great session with @tholt who came over to my house few days back with his Abyss 1266 Phi HP.  We auditioned the audiophile Trinity HPs i.e. Abyss 1266 Phi, Focal Utopia and Hifiman HE1000 V1 with Flux FCN-10 (DAC/Amp) which is equivalent of FA-10.  With Abyss 1266 Phi, @tholt is listening in using my FCN-10 this week and he will share the impressions later this week with Abyss 1266 Phi. I can share detailed impressions of FCN-10 & Focal Utopia and comparing that to a Neutral transparent amp & Focal Utopia in a day.


Does he owns all 3 headphone ?


----------



## gancanjam

teknorob23 said:


> I haven’t received it yet but I’ll be sure to share my thoughts as soon as I have the 2 together



@tholt can and I will share more details but short answer is I personally like it, FCN-10 & FA-10 are worth considering to pair for Abyss 1266.


----------



## kdphan

gancanjam said:


> Great session with @tholt who came over to my house few days back with his Abyss 1266 Phi HP.  We auditioned the audiophile Trinity HPs i.e. Abyss 1266 Phi, Focal Utopia and Hifiman HE1000 V1 with Flux FCN-10 (DAC/Amp) which is equivalent of FA-10.  With Abyss 1266 Phi, @tholt is listening in using my FCN-10 this week and he will share the impressions later this week with Abyss 1266 Phi. I can share detailed impressions of FCN-10 & Focal Utopia and comparing that to a Neutral transparent amp & Focal Utopia in a day.


When COVID slows down a bit, I will need to visit you or you can come over again. How do you like the FCN-10 so far?


----------



## NickT23

gancanjam said:


> @tholt can and I will share more details but short answer is I personally like it, FCN-10 & FA-10 are worth considering to pair for Abyss 1266.


Your respond should be mind blown and out of this world experience. So to you is just I like it


----------



## gancanjam

NickT23 said:


> Does he owns all 3 headphone ?



He owns Abyss 1266 Phi and I own Utopia & HE1000 V1


----------



## NickT23

This is so sad and pathetic where we need to visit each other stranger house to auditioned before making a  purchase. Sad reality in the audio industry.


----------



## rmsanger

NickT23 said:


> This is so sad and pathetic where we need to visit each other stranger house to auditioned before making a  purchase. Sad reality in the audio industry.


Well there is a tour thread going on which I just signed up for... At some point I'll get to audition the Burson 3X and just pay to ship it to the next person on the tour.  I suggested for them to add the Flux Labs products so we'll see.


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 4, 2020)

kdphan said:


> When COVID slows down a bit, I will need to visit you or you can come over again. How do you like the FCN-10 so far?



Hey @kdphan, thanks for loaning your Audio GD when I was struggling and I owe you one man! I will drop FCN-10 for your listening in a week, feel free to audition for sometime and share your impression here.

My short takeaway is that this is a good amp to be in rotation for most people out there. When cables cost $700, buying FA-10 or FA-12 or FA-10 pro for this price is a no brainer but would advice you to talk to Flux support before getting the amp of your choice with desired sound signature to be sure.  However... against some of the popular sentiments out there, I do not want to call this an end game rig or the ONE amp which can replace other amps or the amp which can beat the other $4000+ amps just because this is more powerful. This amp has lot of good qualities from solid state analytical amps and with some tube amp vibes as well which I see as a positive.

Have found pairing is very important factor for this Amp with HPs as it sounds unpredictably different with different HPs and with few songs, the amp has some general characteristics which should be common across all HPs but the degree of that characteristics varies depending on the HP which is paired. For example, "Smooth Treble" is a general characteristics of this amp but the degree in which it smooths out the treble varies a lot between the three HPs i have tried. With Abyss 1266 phi it smooths treble to minimal degree, it reduces the sharp treble edges a bit but still will satisfy both Treble lovers & Treble haters with adequate sparkly Highs. With HE1000 V1 it smooths treble mainly in the sharper Mid treble region but retains High Treble region to retain decent amount of sparkles though overall treble resolution/clarity is slightly reduced. With Utopia, it smooths treble to a large degree to the point that the very lively Utopia losing shine to sound less engaging and uninteresting to my ears, treble response gets even more lower than some Tube amps I have tried with Utopia.

Likewise some songs sounds great to my taste with FCN-10 but some don't so as I said it's good to have this in rotation

Will share more impressions soon about Utopia & FCN-10, it is not my favorite pairing but some out there may like this pairing


----------



## VitalyDon

Do I understand it correctly that your review is mainly about FCN-10 as a combo but not as a separate amplifier?


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 3, 2020)

VitalyDon said:


> Do I understand it correctly that your review is mainly about FCN-10 as a combo but not as a separate amplifier?



Yes review is about the  FCN-10 DAC/Amp combo and not about FA-10 amplifier so say, if you use Chord Dave DAC + FA-10 Amp  then it will best the FCN-10 combo any day at least in details/resolution    But I think the FCN-10 combo still depicts the FA-10 signature reasonably well though so sometimes I interchangeably used FA-10 in my comments, thanks for highlighting this !


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## rmsanger (Aug 3, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> Yes review is about the  FCN-10 DAC/Amp combo and not about FA-10 amplifier so say, if you use Chord Dave DAC + FA-10 Amp  then it will best the FCN-10 combo any day at least in details/resolution    But I think the FCN-10 combo still depicts the FA-10 signature reasonably well though so sometimes I interchangeably used FA-10 in my comments, thanks for highlighting this !


Well of course with the Dave.   Topping D90, Ares II, MHDT Orchid, Rme Adi 2,  Holo Audio spring 2 lvl 1 might be more price appropriate standalone DACs to comp.  burson conductor 3xR and 3XP will also be comps as well for AIO.


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## gancanjam (Aug 4, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Well of course with the Dave.   Topping D90, Ares II, MHDT Orchid, Rme Adi 2,  Holo Audio spring 2 lvl 1 might be more price appropriate standalone DACs to comp.  burson conductor 3xR and 3XP will also be comps as well for AIO.



You should check out FCN-10 or FA-10 for your Abyss 1266, if you already have a DAC then would suggest to get (try to audition first though and i understand it is not easy  ) only the FA-10 amp. They do have 15 days policy in case you change your mind, you may have to pay for shipping


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> You should check out FCN-10 or FA-10 for your Abyss 1266, if you already have a DAC then would suggest to get (try to audition first though and i understand it is not easy  ) only the FA-10 amp. They do have 15 days policy in case you change your mind, you may have to pay for shipping


My Abyss are arriving today. I’m not sure when my FA-10 will be getting here. I have several DAC’s I’m going to tryout with the FA-10 but I’m leaning initially with the RME before trying it with my Chord DAC’s.


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## rmsanger (Aug 4, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> You should check out FCN-10 or FA-10 for your Abyss 1266, if you already have a DAC then would suggest to get (try to audition first though and i understand it is not easy  ) only the FA-10 amp. They do have 15 days policy in case you change your mind, you may have to pay for shipping


Awaiting feedback on FA-10 with the 1266 phi tc before I place my order.  Probably will go with a Holo Audio Dac or MHDT instead of the flux integrated.
Less interested in the FA-10 smoothing of the highs but more on mids clarity and bass impact/accuracy.  My Lyr and Phonitor are not sufficiently driving the 1266s.


----------



## gancanjam

Slim1970 said:


> My Abyss are arriving today. I’m not sure when my FA-10 will be getting here. I have several DAC’s I’m going to tryout with the FA-10 but I’m leaning initially with the RME before trying it with my Chord DAC’s.



Unless you are a Mid's head, Abyss is one of/probably the best HP i have heard so congrats on your HP.  I listened to Abyss only for a very short amount of time with Flux so take it with a pinch of salt on what i am going to describe, if you are buying FA-10 for the power to drive Abyss, support the Bass supremacy of this HP,  Soundstage, impact, non sharp Treble but still very much present Treble then this amp should work for your needs but do share your impressions after your try outs. Resolution is good in Flux with Abyss 1266 but not great though it is not noticeable  unless compared with 3-5 times expensive amp side by side, this can be handled to some extent by pairing it with a highly resolving DAC. Some DACs i like are Chord TT, in $1500 category used Qutest,  in $1000 category RME are good choices.


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> Unless you are a Mid's head, Abyss is one of/probably the best HP i have heard so congrats on your HP.  I listened to Abyss only for a very short amount of time with Flux so take it with a pinch of salt on what i am going to describe, if you are buying FA-10 for the power to drive Abyss, support the Bass supremacy of this HP,  Soundstage, impact, non sharp Treble but still very much present Treble then this amp should work for your needs but do share your impressions after your try outs. Resolution is good in Flux with Abyss 1266 but not great though it is not noticeable  unless compared with 3-5 times expensive amp side by side, this can be handled to some extent by pairing it with a highly resolving DAC. Some DACs i like are Chord TT, in $1500 category used Qutest,  in $1000 category RME are good choices.


I agree the mids on the Abyss are not its strong suit. The Susvara's has better mids in comparison. The FA-10, without having heard it, seems to be made for music enjoyment. The Abyss are highly resolving already and the mix of musicality from the FA-10 should pair well with them. I've had highly resolving amp and felt they lacked emotion and wasn't drawing me into the music like I wanted them too. The FA-10 with its midrange emphasis and bass reproduction seems to fit what I'm looking for. Why, because music lives in the midrange. If the midrange isn't right, then everything around it seems to sound out of place. This goes for headphones as well.

I have the TT2 and Hugo 2 which are both excellent at extracting details and are very resolving DACs. The RME is no slouch either. So I should be covered. On top of the that, the way you described what you are hearing with the Flux and Abyss pairing is exactly what I hoped the combination would be. The FA-10 seems to be a heck of an amp. Like you said, it can be made even better with a high performance DAC. I cannot wait to get mine.


----------



## gancanjam

Slim1970 said:


> I agree the mids on the Abyss are not its strong suit. The Susvara's has better mids in comparison. The FA-10, without having heard it, seems to be made for music enjoyment. The Abyss are highly resolving already and the mix of musicality from the FA-10 should pair well with them. I've had highly resolving amp and felt they lacked emotion and wasn't drawing me into the music like I wanted them too. The FA-10 with its midrange emphasis and bass reproduction seems to fit what I'm looking for. Why, because music lives in the midrange. If the midrange isn't right, then everything around it seems to sound out of place. This goes for headphones as well.
> 
> I have the TT2 and Hugo 2 which are both excellent at extracting details and are very resolving DACs. The RME is no slouch either. So I should be covered. On top of the that, the way you described what you are hearing with the Flux and Abyss pairing is exactly what I hoped the combination would be. The FA-10 seems to be a heck of an amp. Like you said, it can be made even better with a high performance DAC. I cannot wait to get mine.



@rmsanger also was referring to the Abyss 1266 Mids in his earlier message. Based on my hangout with tholt who owns Abyss 1266, he mentioned that Flux Mids are more present than his earlier setups so am hoping it will work. However  Abyss 1266 will still hold it's signature with Flux  by retaining focus on the extreme ends,  just trying to set the right expectation with you   I like the Mids of Focal Utopia better than Abyss 1266 with an intimate presentation of all Mids/instruments/details coming together to hit your face when paired with an analytical amp   it is a love or hate presentation but very unique


----------



## tholt (Aug 5, 2020)

I’ve had the pleasure of listening to the FCN-10 (essentially the FA-10 with a built-in DAC) for 3 days now and here are some brief impressions in no real order.

I’d like to thank @gancanjam for graciously loaning me his unit for a few days to allow for a more extended listening period than we had at his house. He said he had about 60 hours on it at the time and I put on another 15 or so.

I used the FCN-10 as amp only (since I was more interested in the FA-10), bypassing the internal DAC for my own (Aqua La Voce S2). Music was streamed or served via Innous Zen Mk III server using Roon and Tidal. Headphones were Abyss 1266 Phi CC.

*TL;DR*

In sum, I would say the general character is a smooth and warmish sounding amplifier. Top to bottom, there is no bloat, distortion, etchiness or brightness present. The sound is full throughout the spectrum, and nothing drew undue attention to itself. It was detailed and offered plenty of information, and it was balanced throughout the frequencies. It was musical in the sense that it didn’t harm the music in any way, nor was it ever offensive in its presentation.

Other things I’ll say is I thought it was just a tad on the softer/rounder side — leading edges weren’t quite as incisive or distinct as I’ve heard, bass could go deep but not as impactful as I’ve heard, highs were plenty extended and detailed but didn’t “shimmer”, for lack of better term. I’m not saying these by themselves are bad or considered lacking, just some relative observations. As all things audio, the sonic qualities of this amplifier will be subjective and also dependent on associated gear.

*Further details –*

The Abyss 1266 Phi is not the easiest headphone to drive, but synergy is also key. Raw power is not enough to bring out the best of these headphones. The Schiit Mjolnir 2 I briefly tried some time ago had plenty of power on paper (8w @ 32Ω, 5w @ 50Ω) but sounded horribly flat, thin and off. The FCN-10 worked and performed very well with the Abyss, nothing was obviously amiss. Synergy and power were definitely there and I wasn’t left wanting. For those of you looking to pair this amp with Abyss, it’s definitely a contender.

Speaking of power, though the FCN-10 has tons of output power, it didn’t feel at all like I was being bludgeoned with raw power or that my drivers would blow out. The opposite in fact — the volume control was easily past 12 o’clock on the dial (Gain setting at Mid) most of the time, and when things got loud or rumbly, all that power translated to greater control. That’s exactly what power should do — give your headphones the juice they need when they need it.

Sonically, as I and others previously noted, I thought it to be on the warmer side of the spectrum. Personally, I like that. I also feel that the Abyss benefits from such a signature. To me, they are the epitome of ‘neutral’, factual, not colored very much, if at all. Depending on upstream gear, they can be warm and inviting or clinical and cold. They are extremely fast, resolving and extended in both extremes. It’s really up to the upstream gear to provide any flavor. For me, I like tubes in my system with these headphones. So the FCN-10 fit right in there and sounded great. I’m not sure I would go so far as to call it ‘tube-like’, but warmish and smooth would be good descriptors.

One thing that can be part of a warm/smooth character is a sense of sluggishness or slowness. The FCN-10 didn’t exhibit that at all. For all my electronic tracks, there was never a sense that timing and pace was slowed. The FCN-10 kept right up with the quickness of the beat, providing drive and engagement.

*Other notes —

Resolution:* details are plenty there but they are not the forte of this amp. It’s more about the overall presentation. This is not what I would call a ‘resolution monster’, however, don’t let that statement suggest that details are missing. They are just more a part of the overall whole.

*Soundstage and imaging: *decently wide and deep, nothing to complain about. Perhaps a touch flatter than I’ve heard before. Again I’d say like resolution, these characteristics are woven into the overall presentation and not standouts on their own.

*Clarity and transparency:* both present, but again not what stands out.

*Treble/mids/bass: *I’m grouping these because I can kind of say the same thing as everything above. Nothing really stands out, but nothing is missing either. No area is lacking, but no area impresses (or overwhelms) over another. Comparatively, I’ve heard amps that had lower and more impactful bass, and I’ve heard more distinctive and shimmery highs. However, I will say the mids are nice and full, giving things like vocals, acoustic guitar, tom toms, etc a nice sense of body and presence.

I guess reading over what I just wrote, the overall sonic signature really is one of a cohesive whole. All the information is there, but nothing really draws attention to itself. To me, that's much more of a positive than a negative.

*Parting thoughts — *

(Very) minor nits:

Not sure why the gain settings aren’t in order. They’re arranged High, Low, Mid
Wish the switches were a little bigger and/or longer. They’re pretty tiny and not the finger-friendliest
A bit plain and spartan looking. Obviously colored faceplates will add flair, but it’s your standard box. That said, it’s well put together and feels solid in use. It’s also more compact than a standard 17” wide component, which might be easier to place
With this kind of power, would be nice to see some binding posts and perhaps a remote so it could be used as an integrated as well.
Pairing is likely key with this amp. If your headphones or other gear are already warm or smooth, this amp will add to those qualities. With the Abyss, the FCN-10 was a nice complement. I could also imagine something like a Senn HD-800 being a nice pairing.

I thought the balanced output sounded ever so slightly better than the SE for some reason. I totally could be wrong here, but it seemed _a hair_ more impactful and clearer. I spent the majority of my time listening balanced out.

I could see this as your only amp paired with headphones that are complementary to its character, or an alternative amp to have alongside something considered more “neutral”.

*Conclusion –*

If the FA-10 was priced between USD$1k - $1.5k, I wouldn't think it unreasonable. For just $600 more, the FCN-10 gives you a great built in DAC and streaming capabilities. If you’re looking for a musical, warmish presentation that presents everything well, with nothing standing out (in a good way) and can power anything at a very competitive price, the FCN-10 (or FA-10) is a serious and worthy contender. Not to mention, from my personal experience and hearing from others, Flux Lab has terrific customer support and real passion for their products.


----------



## omniweltall

tholt said:


> I’ve had the pleasure of listening to the FCN-10 (essentially the FA-10 with a built-in DAC) for 3 days now and here are some brief impressions in no real order.
> 
> I’d like to thank @gancanjam for graciously loaning me his unit for a few days to allow for a more extended listening period than we had at his house. He said he had about 60 hours on it at the time and I put on another 15 or so.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the useful impression. Can you compare with previous SS amps ur familiar with? THX 789 would be one good comparison.

Cheers


----------



## tholt

omniweltall said:


> Thanks foe the useful impression. Can you compare with previous SS amps ur familiar with? THX 789 would be one good comparison.


I haven't heard the 789, but from what I've read about that amp, this would probably be warmer and fuller sounding.


----------



## Slim1970

tholt said:


> I’ve had the pleasure of listening to the FCN-10 (essentially the FA-10 with a built-in DAC) for 3 days now and here are some brief impressions in no real order.
> 
> I’d like to thank @gancanjam for graciously loaning me his unit for a few days to allow for a more extended listening period than we had at his house. He said he had about 60 hours on it at the time and I put on another 15 or so.
> 
> ...


Do you think some of that smoothness character you were hearing came from the DAC you were using? The Aqua La Voce S2 uses the Burr Brown PCM1704 DAC chips and they are known to be on the warm and smooth side of things. Do you think a more neutral, dynamic sounding DAC would change the way you are hearing the FCN-10 or FA-10?


----------



## tholt

Slim1970 said:


> Do you think some of that smoothness character you were hearing came from the DAC you were using? The Aqua La Voce S2 uses the Burr Brown PCM1704 DAC chips and they are known to be on the warm and smooth side of things. Do you think a more neutral, dynamic sounding DAC would change the way you are hearing the FCN-10 or FA-10?



Of course anything up the chain (DAC, source) could and will affect the overall sound to a degree. However, I've used this DAC with many other amps and I never felt it was contributing any overt smoothness, or any other trait. It makes music more natural sounding, if you will, but not smoothed over. Also, I've heard this amp using its own internal DAC and very much the same observations.


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## rmsanger (Aug 5, 2020)

tholt said:


> I’ve had the pleasure of listening to the FCN-10 (essentially the FA-10 with a built-in DAC) for 3 days now and here are some brief impressions in no real order.
> 
> I’d like to thank @gancanjam for graciously loaning me his unit for a few days to allow for a more extended listening period than we had at his house. He said he had about 60 hours on it at the time and I put on another 15 or so.
> 
> ...




"No area is lacking, but no area impresses (or overwhelms) over another. Comparatively, I’ve heard amps that had lower and more impactful bass, and I’ve heard more distinctive and shimmery highs."

A bit disappointing with the feedback around the dynamics of this pairing.   1266 Phi TC is a dynamics monster when paired well hence why many/most owners will throw $3k+ amps at it.  I was hoping that with additional power the FA-10 would make the TC's "sing" similarly to something to akin to the Xi audio formula s amp/pairing.  Would you describe that both highs/lows sound accurate and smooth just lacking a bit of impact?

"I used the FCN-10 as amp only (since I was more interested in the FA-10), bypassing the internal DAC for my own (Aqua La Voce S2). Music was streamed or served via Innous Zen Mk III server using Roon and Tidal. Headphones were Abyss 1266 Phi CC."

Did you happen to quickly sample the FCN-10 DAC just to make sure it would be serviceable in a pinch?  If so did you also happen to test the streaming functionality with the built in dac?

" If the FA-10 was priced between USD$1k - $1.5k, I wouldn't think it unreasonable. For just $600 more, the FCN-10 gives you a great built in DAC and streaming capabilities. "

So the FA-10 is $750 and if priced $250-$750 higher it would be overpriced.  Are there any other Amps in the $1k - $1.5k price point that you have paired the 1266 Phi TCs with that compare favorably to the FA-10?   Just wondering the context of this if there are other options in this price range that are possibly a better match and provide by dynamics/impact than the FA-10.


----------



## cfranchi (Aug 5, 2020)

Some considerations for potential buyers of FA-10. After reading the previous posts, don’t consider FA-10 as a mellow or overly warm amp : it is definitely not. I would say it is balanced and natural with a punchy trait (all you would expect from a quality class A amp). With my HE6se, it is a very engaging combo, very musical (DAC is Chord Mojo). My 2 cents from a happy owner of FA-10. If you are not convinced then wait for FA-10 pro (or ask Flux about your headphones and what amp they would suggest).


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## driftingbunnies

rmsanger said:


> "No area is lacking, but no area impresses (or overwhelms) over another. Comparatively, I’ve heard amps that had lower and more impactful bass, and I’ve heard more distinctive and shimmery highs."
> 
> A bit disappointing with the feedback around the dynamics of this pairing.   1266 Phi TC is a dynamics monster when paired well hence why many/most owners will throw $3k+ amps at it.  I was hoping that with additional power the FA-10 would make the TC's "sing" similarly to something to akin to the Xi audio formula s amp/pairing.  Would you describe that both highs/lows sound accurate and smooth just lacking a bit of impact?
> 
> ...



It does seem a bit optimistic to think that a $750 amp will outperform a Formula S ($3500 without power supply) just because the power specs are higher. I think it goes to show that power specs and loudness aren't the only things that matters when it comes to amps.

I'm pretty satisfied with my FA-10. I totally agree with the reviews that have been posted here. The value of this amp at this price point is pretty high imo and anyone looking to spend 1k on amplification should take a look at this amp.


----------



## rmsanger

driftingbunnies said:


> It does seem a bit optimistic to think that a $750 amp will outperform a Formula S ($3500 without power supply) just because the power specs are higher. I think it goes to show that power specs and loudness aren't the only things that matters when it comes to amps.
> 
> I'm pretty satisfied with my FA-10. I totally agree with the reviews that have been posted here. The value of this amp at this price point is pretty high imo and anyone looking to spend 1k on amplification should take a look at this amp.



yep I wasn't implying it would outperform but hoping perhaps just match it form a dynamics perspective.


----------



## dolordonpanda

flux lab just released their fn-12s  on the site for 500 $


----------



## gancanjam

cfranchi said:


> Some considerations for potential buyers of FA-10. After reading the previous posts, don’t consider FA-10 as a mellow or overly warm amp : it is definitely not. I would say it is balanced and natural with a punchy trait (all you would expect from a quality class A amp). With my HE6se, it is a very engaging combo, very musical (DAC is Chord Mojo). My 2 cents from a happy owner of FA-10. If you are not convinced then wait for FA-10 pro (or ask Flux about your headphones and what amp they would suggest).



Agree with impressions from @tholt , @cfranchi  and others, to summarize...It is referred as Warm due to more presence in Bass/Mids than Highs but not necessarily a laid back sound as it may imply. Many Tube amps are described as Musical, Refined, Warm and they are for relaxed & emotional listening but FCN-10/FA-10 though it also have the characteristics of Musical, Refinement, Warmth will have hard slams, impact and punch coming from Bass & some Mids with speed so it is a Fun & engaging  signature.


----------



## cfranchi

gancanjam said:


> Agree with impressions from @tholt , @cfranchi  and others, to summarize...It is referred as Warm due to more presence in Bass/Mids than Highs but not necessarily a laid back sound as it may imply. Many Tube amps are described as Musical, Refined, Warm and they are for relaxed & emotional listening but FCN-10/FA-10 though it also have the characteristics of Musical, Refinement, Warmth will have hard slams, impact and punch coming from Bass & some Mids with speed so it is a Fun & engaging  signature.



I could not have summarized better !


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## gancanjam (Aug 6, 2020)

omniweltall said:


> Thanks for the useful impression. Can you compare with previous SS amps ur familiar with? THX 789 would be one good comparison.
> 
> Cheers



I have not heard THX 789 to compare with Flux but have listened to similar Neutral, Transparent, Clean SS DAC/Amp Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD, this is 10 times more expensive than THX 789 but still should have similar traits ...will share my impressions tomorrow


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> yep I wasn't implying it would outperform but hoping perhaps just match it form a dynamics perspective.


This is what I'm hoping for as well. The Burson 3XR I just sold had great dynamics but didn't have the bass impact I was looking for. I'm hoping the FA-10 is an improvement in both areas.


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> This is what I'm hoping for as well. The Burson 3XR I just sold had great dynamics but didn't have the bass impact I was looking for. I'm hoping the FA-10 is an improvement in both areas.



Maybe check also FA-10 pro


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Maybe check also FA-10 pro


I was thinkIng about that. I wonder if it’s too late in the build process to make that change.


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I was thinkIng about that. I wonder if it’s too late in the build process to make that change.



Ask Flux by Facebook chat, they are very responsive


----------



## rmsanger

Zeos will be reviewing the FA10/12S.


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## gancanjam

rmsanger said:


> Zeos will be reviewing the FA10/12S.




More reviews the better right ?


----------



## rmsanger

gancanjam said:


> More reviews the better right ?


Like him or hate him (I like him) he has a wide audience... He will bring a lot of people to the table in purchasing the products if he gives a positive outlook.  But also keep in mind that there will be much longer wait lists after the review so if you want a product put in an order now.


----------



## Harmonyx

tesox said:


> Here are my impressions after 2 days of intensive listening and comparing to my Phonitor X:
> 
> *Preview:*
> The FA-10 is one of the best amplifiers I've heard so far and that have been quite
> ...



Very helpful mini review / analysis Tesox!

Apologies if I missed it in the thread, but I would love to know if you have had a chance to listen to the QUAD ERA-1's with the FA-10 please? Was it a complimentary pairing? I am trying to decide between the FA-10 or the FA-12. (I've had a look at the specs of the FA-12S and it might be a bit under-powered for the planars imo).

Thanks in advance if you are able to clarify!


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> Zeos will be reviewing the FA10/12S.



Oh gosh, another over hype product !


----------



## Nostoi

rmsanger said:


> Like him or hate him (I like him) he has a wide audience... He will bring a lot of people to the table in purchasing the products if he gives a positive outlook.  But also keep in mind that there will be much longer wait lists after the review so if you want a product put in an order now.


It's a shame there's not a more credible reviewer who has the same level of exposure.


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## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> Like him or hate him (I like him) he has a wide audience... He will bring a lot of people to the table in purchasing the products if he gives a positive outlook.  But also keep in mind that there will be much longer wait lists after the review so if you want a product put in an order now.


Thats why he is sponsored since manufactures can sell more units. Its all hype and marketing


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Oh gosh, another over hype product !



You’re a tough crowd 

He’s not my cup of tea either but my view is the more the merrier.


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> You’re a tough crowd
> 
> He’s not my cup of tea either but my view is the more the merrier.


That is true. Impressions are important as well ! Eventhough he talks a lot of BS, but some of his impression are really great insight and good information somewhat


----------



## omniweltall

teknorob23 said:


> You’re a tough crowd
> 
> He’s not my cup of tea either but my view is the more the merrier.


In audio, quality is always better than quantity.

Unfortunately, there is currently no youtube reviewers that I can rely on. Most are shills. And even some are more objective and trustworthy, they just lack the ear and experience.


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## teknorob23

omniweltall said:


> In audio, quality is always better than quantity.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is currently no youtube reviewers that I can rely on. Most are shills. And even some are more objective and trustworthy, they just lack the ear and experience.



I agree in terms of enjoying the consumption of a review, but all reviewers have their biases, preferences etc even the “quality” ones with the “ear” so I’d rather 15 reviews of mixed origin and look for a consensus


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## omniweltall (Aug 6, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> I agree in terms of enjoying the consumption of a review, but all reviewers have their biases, preferences etc even the “quality” ones with the “ear” so I’d rather 15 reviews of mixed origin and look for a consensus


Very true. That's why we still need to know his preferences and calibrate. But regardless of his preferences, his reviews will be very deep and insightful. There aren't many of those anyway.

But that doesn't mean we cant get good info from normal reviewers. As long as he is not a shill, there is still some info to be obtained. Just not as deep.

Once we follow a person's reviews over the years, we will be able to understand much much better about him. Whether he is a shill. How he hides his shills with words. Whether he gets overly excited with new toys. Etc etc.


----------



## Bhk1004

zreviews? his preferences = love everything and talk about his cat and wallpaper and whatever else for 19 minutes of his 20 minute review, then just scream he loves whatever it is that he is reviewing for 1 minute.


----------



## teknorob23

Bhk1004 said:


> zreviews? his preferences = love everything and talk about his cat and wallpaper and whatever else for 19 minutes of his 20 minute review, then just scream he loves whatever it is that he is reviewing for 1 minute.



Yep thats about what I get out of his reviews too


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> Yep thats about what I get out of his reviews too


Which is BS !


----------



## elira

Bhk1004 said:


> zreviews? his preferences = love everything and talk about his cat and wallpaper and whatever else for 19 minutes of his 20 minute review, then just scream he loves whatever it is that he is reviewing for 1 minute.


He has a very positive approach, but he gives good information. He tries to find why someone might like the device, so his reviews are always something like “you will like this if you like these other things”, only terrible products receive a bad review from him.

It’s like the polar opposite of “no theme reviews”.


----------



## NickT23

omniweltall said:


> Very true. That's why we still need to know his preferences and calibrate. But regardless of his preferences, his reviews will be very deep and insightful. There aren't many of those anyway.
> 
> But that doesn't mean we cant get good info from normal reviewers. As long as he is not a shill, there is still some info to be obtained. Just not as deep.
> 
> Once we follow a person's reviews over the years, we will be able to understand much much better about him. Whether he is a shill. How he hides his shills with words. Whether he gets overly excited with new toys. Etc etc.


There arent many because he gets all the products in the world.


----------



## Nostoi

elira said:


> He has a very positive approach, but he gives good information. He tries to find why someone might like the device, so his reviews are always something like “you will like this if you like these other things”, only terrible products receive a bad review from him.
> 
> It’s like the polar opposite of “no theme reviews”.


That's a charitable interpretation. 

No Theme Reviews is a curious one. I appreciate his very thorough reviews - which are at times borderline too analytical - though something about his tone is off-putting. Still, his reviews are significantly more beneficial than most of the other current gen YouTube reviewers, who tend to peddle hype and trends.


----------



## rmsanger (Aug 6, 2020)

Funny how you guys feel about Z I feel about ASR.   I watch him for entertainment he is the stradman of the audio world.

if I want detailed reviews I watch currawong, Sandu (sounds news),  Josh Valour,  Sean (Zero Fidelity), New Record Day, Thomas, Jay(TNBT),  headphones.com guys...

darko and gutt are fine but they skim.


----------



## NickT23

Nostoi said:


> That's a charitable interpretation.
> 
> No Theme Reviews is a curious one. I appreciate his very thorough reviews - which are at times borderline too analytical - though something about his tone is off-putting. Still, his reviews are significantly more beneficial than most of the other current gen YouTube reviewers, who tend to peddle hype and trends.


At least that guy dont give BS review


----------



## Nostoi

NickT23 said:


> At least that guy dont give BS review


Yeah, I'm basically a fan of his approach and always interested in what he has to say. I appreciate the low key no-bs approach without it being hyperbolic (like the unwatchable Hawaii guy, for example).


----------



## NickT23

Nostoi said:


> Yeah, I'm basically a fan of his approach and always interested in what he has to say. I appreciate the low key no-bs approach without it being hyperbolic (like the unwatchable Hawaii guy, for example).


But yet again, there is a perk of being too honest, you get no items to review from manufacturers.


----------



## VitalyDon

No Theme Reviews is one of the best, IMHO. I purchased my NAD HP 50 after watching one of his reviews. The HP 50 are awesome. Thinking of buying another pair, just for reserve.


----------



## tholt

rmsanger said:


> "No area is lacking, but no area impresses (or overwhelms) over another. Comparatively, I’ve heard amps that had lower and more impactful bass, and I’ve heard more distinctive and shimmery highs."
> 
> A bit disappointing with the feedback around the dynamics of this pairing. 1266 Phi TC is a dynamics monster when paired well hence why many/most owners will throw $3k+ amps at it. I was hoping that with additional power the FA-10 would make the TC's "sing" similarly to something to akin to the Xi audio formula s amp/pairing. Would you describe that both highs/lows sound accurate and smooth just lacking a bit of impact?



Power alone won't make the Abyss 'sing' IME. Current and other variables also to consider. And FWIW, synergy plays a big part. The Mjolnir 2 I referenced had plenty of power but sounded terrible.

_Would you describe that both highs/lows sound accurate and smooth just lacking a bit of impact? _
Accurate and smooth, yes. I don't know about "lacking" impact, I guess it depends on what you mean by impact. There is plenty on bottom and top, but neither seems to really stand out, which I think works well to paint the whole sonic picture. If a track has big bass or airy highs, the FA-10 will deliver.



rmsanger said:


> "I used the FCN-10 as amp only (since I was more interested in the FA-10), bypassing the internal DAC for my own (Aqua La Voce S2). Music was streamed or served via Innous Zen Mk III server using Roon and Tidal. Headphones were Abyss 1266 Phi CC."
> 
> Did you happen to quickly sample the FCN-10 DAC just to make sure it would be serviceable in a pinch? If so did you also happen to test the streaming functionality with the built in dac?



Yes, @gancanjam and I listened to the FCN-10 using its built in DAC. I'd say it's more than adequate, definitely worth the $600 extra esp if you consider you get streaming too. Have not tried streaming though.



rmsanger said:


> " If the FA-10 was priced between USD$1k - $1.5k, I wouldn't think it unreasonable. For just $600 more, the FCN-10 gives you a great built in DAC and streaming capabilities. "
> 
> So the FA-10 is $750 and if priced $250-$750 higher it would be overpriced. Are there any other Amps in the $1k - $1.5k price point that you have paired the 1266 Phi TCs with that compare favorably to the FA-10? Just wondering the context of this if there are other options in this price range that are possibly a better match and provide by dynamics/impact than the FA-10.



No, I meant if the FA-10 were priced at between $1k - $1.5k I would still consider it reasonably priced for what you get. Other options in this range -- I really haven't tried too many, but from ones I did, the FA-10 is at the top and if $750 - $1000 was my budget, the FA-10 would be hard to beat IMO.


----------



## rmsanger

tholt said:


> Power alone won't make the Abyss 'sing' IME. Current and other variables also to consider. And FWIW, synergy plays a big part. The Mjolnir 2 I referenced had plenty of power but sounded terrible.
> 
> _Would you describe that both highs/lows sound accurate and smooth just lacking a bit of impact? _
> Accurate and smooth, yes. I don't know about "lacking" impact, I guess it depends on what you mean by impact. There is plenty on bottom and top, but neither seems to really stand out, which I think works well to paint the whole sonic picture. If a track has big bass or airy highs, the FA-10 will deliver.
> ...


Thanks again for all your input, very valuable stuff!


----------



## tholt

driftingbunnies said:


> It does seem a bit optimistic to think that a $750 amp will outperform a Formula S ($3500 without power supply) just because the power specs are higher. I think it goes to show that power specs and loudness aren't the only things that matters when it comes to amps.
> 
> I'm pretty satisfied with my FA-10. I totally agree with the reviews that have been posted here. The value of this amp at this price point is pretty high imo and anyone looking to spend 1k on amplification should take a look at this amp.


I'd agree with this in general. Price is typically one indicator of where things fall in any given category. 

_The value of this amp at this price point is pretty high imo and anyone looking to spend 1k on amplification should take a look at this amp._
Boom. ^This


----------



## cfranchi

FA-10 pro is just released, 749$


----------



## tholt

cfranchi said:


> FA-10 pro is just released, 749$



Having heard the regular FA-10, I'd very interested to compare to the Pro. My guess is that those looking for a more linear and neutral amp might find their answer? I think it's great Flux offers options for different tastes, and that they are obviously working hard for us!


----------



## Bhk1004

i just want to know what the fa-12 sounds like and everyone buying the fa10 T_T


----------



## gancanjam

teknorob23 said:


> I agree in terms of enjoying the consumption of a review, but all reviewers have their biases, preferences etc even the “quality” ones with the “ear” so I’d rather 15 reviews of mixed origin and look for a consensus



That's what i do as well  listen to more reviews and come to a consensus.


----------



## gancanjam

rmsanger said:


> Funny how you guys feel about Z I feel about ASR.   I watch him for entertainment he is the stradman of the audio world.
> 
> if I want detailed reviews I watch currawong, Sandu (sounds news),  Josh Valour,  Sean (Zero Fidelity), New Record Day, Thomas, Jay(TNBT),  headphones.com guys...
> 
> darko and gutt are fine but they skim.



Man ..you all guys started reviewing the reviewers in this thread huh ..LOL


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> Man ..you all guys started reviewing the reviewers in this thread huh ..LOL


Right, can we get back on track and talking about the amps.


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 6, 2020)

Took another Neutral Transparent Solid state DAC/Amp Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD to compare with Musical Solid state DAC/Amp FCN-10, used Neutral Highly resolving HP Utopia as pairing for this comparison. With Neutral Amps, Utopia is tad brighter and not necessarily Neutral though. Utopia morphs to the DAC/Amp and sounds different with different setup. Also added brief Abyss 1266 & HE1000 comparison below

The table looked good in preview but not showing well in this message so had to attach the comparison as a spreadsheet


----------



## Bhk1004 (Aug 6, 2020)

You really gotta take the dac out of these amp comparisons. Meaning same dac for both amps.

But then again I guess this is a comparo for aio units.


----------



## gancanjam

Bhk1004 said:


> You really gotta take the dac out of these amp comparisons. Meaning same dac for both amps.
> 
> But then again I guess this is a comparo for aio units.



Yes it is AIO  will try to do what you said


----------



## gancanjam

Again Comparison table did not came well


----------



## NickT23

VitalyDon said:


> No Theme Reviews is one of the best, IMHO. I purchased my NAD HP 50 after watching one of his reviews. The HP 50 are awesome. Thinking of buying another pair, just for reserve.


Not one of best, probably the best ! Kinda fact IMHO. No BS but my problem  with him is this following: too honest to the point he is not making a name for himself which results in lack of sponsors by manufactures. He needs to be bias a little to get more products as his channels are so limited to gears which is VERY sad.


----------



## froger

Not a review, just another data point. Received my Fa-10 2 days ago, so the amplifier is not burn-in yet. Having said that, I think I already found which headphone I like with the amplifier.

My current reference set-up is Rockna Wavedream dac- DNA Stratus- Hifiman HE-1000SE. Yes, I prefer HE-1000SE with Stratus over HD800 and Focal Utopia. The reason why I bought FA-10 was because I wanted a solid-state amplifier sound where the image is sharper, bass is more defined and background is blacker, to compliment my tube amplifier.

I tried the Fa-10 with HE-1000SE, ZMF Auteur, Zenith PMx2, HD-650 and Meze Rai Panta iem. I had wanted to use Fa-10 primarily with HE-1000SE, but I was disappointed that the combination didn't turn out to be what I like. While there is sharper image and more details, the tonality just did not sound as organic. HE-1000SE on my Stratus sounds more realistic.

Next I tried ZMF Auteur. It is a headphone that I hardly use because it just can't match up with HE-1000SE, whether with Stratus or with Cayin iHA-6 which I previously owned. However, on Fa-10, the headphone was elevated to my new end game combination. I never expected that Auteur can sound so good! With Fa-10, the combination provided everything I wish for: big soundstage, highly musical, realistic and non-fatiguing. To think I almost thought of selling the Auteur away a few months ago.

No doubt Fa-10 is a very capable amplifier, but I think alot still boil down to synergy and your other equipment. I am glad that I found a very high performing combination with the Fa-10. Thus it is a keeper in my book


----------



## cfranchi

froger said:


> I had wanted to use Fa-10 primarily with HE-1000SE, but I was disappointed that the combination didn't turn out to be what I like. While there is sharper image and more details, the tonality just did not sound as organic. HE-1000SE on my Stratus sounds more realistic.



Interesting, I have HE6se which is even more technical than HEKse. Thru FA-10, HE6se is so lifelike and natural that I really don’t feel the need for a more organic or realistic sound.


----------



## gancanjam

froger said:


> Not a review, just another data point. Received my Fa-10 2 days ago, so the amplifier is not burn-in yet. Having said that, I think I already found which headphone I like with the amplifier.
> 
> My current reference set-up is Rockna Wavedream dac- DNA Stratus- Hifiman HE-1000SE. Yes, I prefer HE-1000SE with Stratus over HD800 and Focal Utopia. The reason why I bought FA-10 was because I wanted a solid-state amplifier sound where the image is sharper, bass is more defined and background is blacker, to compliment my tube amplifier.
> 
> ...



You are absolutely right, pairing is very important for Flux FA-10


----------



## funkur

froger said:


> Not a review, just another data point. Received my Fa-10 2 days ago, so the amplifier is not burn-in yet. Having said that, I think I already found which headphone I like with the amplifier.
> 
> My current reference set-up is Rockna Wavedream dac- DNA Stratus- Hifiman HE-1000SE. Yes, I prefer HE-1000SE with Stratus over HD800 and Focal Utopia. The reason why I bought FA-10 was because I wanted a solid-state amplifier sound where the image is sharper, bass is more defined and background is blacker, to compliment my tube amplifier.
> 
> ...



I adore the ZMF Verite C on the FA-10 also!


----------



## gancanjam

funkur said:


> I adore the ZMF Verite C on the FA-10 also!



How do you like your Utopia with FA-10 ?


----------



## tholt

Curious - I'm seeing a few FA-10s pop up on the used market lately. Everyone is selling their units for the same price as brand new. How, why, and what am I missing?


----------



## rmsanger

tholt said:


> Curious - I'm seeing a few FA-10s pop up on the used market lately. Everyone is selling their units for the same price as brand new. How, why, and what am I missing?



When you buy new don't you have to pay for import fees + shipping?  The listings I've seen included PP & shipping with the price.   My assumption is the lots of demand and limited supply and keeping used prices high.


----------



## tholt

rmsanger said:


> When you buy new don't you have to pay for import fees + shipping?  The listings I've seen included PP & shipping with the price.   My assumption is the lots of demand and limited supply and keeping used prices high.


I don't know what the total cost would be buying new, I haven't bought one. I would assume shipping etc, but I've never seen a used product sell for the price of new before... Is the warranty transferrable? If so, I suppose I could see the value.


----------



## driftingbunnies

If you spend a few seconds on the website, you can see how much it'll cost you to get a new one over to the states...


----------



## gto88

buyer pay paypal fee?  it is unusual on the market.


----------



## elira

gto88 said:


> buyer pay paypal fee?  it is unusual on the market.


As far as I know that is against PayPal terms of service.

from: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#accepting-payments


> *No surcharges*
> You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.


----------



## driftingbunnies

elira said:


> As far as I know that is against PayPal terms of service.
> 
> from: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#accepting-payments



While it is against paypal ToS, flux isn't the first company that I've seen do this. AFAIK, plenty of individuals also do this when you look through the sale posts on head-fi. Regardless, 749 is not the price to get an amp to your door for anyone.


----------



## elira

driftingbunnies said:


> While it is against paypal ToS, flux isn't the first company that I've seen do this. AFAIK, plenty of individuals also do this when you look through the sale posts on head-fi. Regardless, 749 is not the price to get an amp to your door for anyone.


That is against head-fi rules/guidelines, and Paypal terms of service. But I guess people don't like to follow rules.


----------



## tholt (Aug 10, 2020)

driftingbunnies said:


> While it is against paypal ToS, flux isn't the first company that I've seen do this. AFAIK, plenty of individuals also do this when you look through the sale posts on head-fi. Regardless, 749 is not the price to get an amp to your door for anyone.


I never thought shipping was free. My point is, sellers are selling used units for new price. If they all are including shipping, I get that's a discount. I've just never seen used items sell for the new price before. Seems strange to me. I suppose the market will be the judge of that.

My real question is if the warranty is transferrable or not? The website lists 2 years but doesn't mention anything about transferring.

Also -- yes indeed strange that Flux would pass on PP fee to customer. I've never seen that from a company. Bit of a dig


----------



## elira

tholt said:


> My real question is if the warranty is transferrable or not? The website lists 2 years but doesn't mention anything about transferring.


They lack detailed warranty terms. I believe legally they are tying themselves to offer 2 years of unconditional warranty (other than the cable connection order). But they are in Ukraine, so if they reject your warranty I don't think you would have any resources other than public shaming to make them comply.


----------



## tholt

elira said:


> They lack detailed warranty terms. I believe legally they are tying themselves to offer 2 years of unconditional warranty (other than the cable connection order). But they are in Ukraine, so if they reject your warranty I don't think you would have any resources other than public shaming to make them comply.


If it is transferrable, then the used units going for full price w/free shipping make some sense. If not, I'd rather have the warranty. Also, I'd rather give Flux the money if the price is that close, but that's just me.


----------



## elira

tholt said:


> If it is transferrable, then the used units going for full price w/free shipping make some sense. If not, I'd rather have the warranty. Also, I'd rather give Flux the money if the price is that close, but that's just me.


As long as they don’t make a profit, it should comply with head-fi rules. Buyers will decide if it’s worth it or not.


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 10, 2020)

driftingbunnies said:


> If you spend a few seconds on the website, you can see how much it'll cost you to get a new one over to the states...



Yes and also the wait times is another factor for the prices to be high. In some countries, there may be duties also though in USA there was none to me. Regular shipping is $100 which will take several weeks apart from several weeks of build time. DHL is much more expensive but will come more quickly


----------



## gto88

I had bad experience with Kennerton in Russia.
The shipping is high cost from US.


----------



## newtophones07

gto88 said:


> buyer pay paypal fee?  it is unusual on the market.



Yeah that is ridiculous, to charge that much shipping plus charging the buyer a PayPal fee.  Its up to the consumer of course, but I personally would never pay that fee to a corporation.


----------



## driftingbunnies

While I agree on many of the points given here, I'd just like to give my two cents from a point of view from other hobbies.

If there is a product that is low volume but has high demand, used prices sometimes will be the same as new or even higher than new if there is a limit on quantity. One hobby that this principle is extremely apparent is in the mechanical keyboard hobby. While vendors continue to offer multiple rounds of products, buyers are willing to spend 3-4x more than the retail price in order to get one in the aftermarket due to the low volume and high demand.

One thing that someone brought up and I believe has been mentioned many times is that this company is in Ukraine. I don't know how things operate in Ukraine but even Schiit in the US charges shipping on their products. For reference, their cheapest rate to ship a yggdrasil to me is ~$40. $100 from Ukraine does not seem to be a stretch to me. Either they break out the shipping or they just include it in their price. So if you would like to look at it this way, the FA-10 is a $849 product with free shipping.

Paypal fees are something that can definitely rack up when you're dealing with high priced items. If you run a business, transaction fees are just one of those hidden costs that customers do not see. It is possible that since the company is from Ukraine, they don't understand how people in the US normally see prices but I can assure you that transaction costs are baked into any price that you see. I've seen various small businesses break out fees whenever a customer purchases an item. Whether or not you want to purchase the item because of that is up to you.

While I own a FA-10, I have no relation to flux at all. I just wanted to give a different perspective as a small business owner.


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 10, 2020)

My stand with Flux, even in some of my messages or reviews i would have mentioned in this thread.. if you like their sound signature/pairing with your rigs then $100-$150 overheads  north or south should be okay to most of us i guess    It is already aggressively priced IMO


----------



## gto88

True


----------



## funkur

When I ordered my FA-10 back in March, Flux threw in DHL shipping in exchange for waiting.  Once it shipped, I had it in 1 week to MD, USA.  

In terms of the PayPal fee, it's pretty expensive for businesses to accept PayPal in certain countries (like 4.5+% and that's for a bank funded purchase, even more for a credit card).  I sent them 749 USD for my purchase using TransferWise, it only cost $6 vs $38 for PayPal.  

Sure, they could raise the price to 799 USD and include the PayPal fees, but at least they are being upfront.  It's up to the customer how much they want to pay for PayPal convienince and shipping speed.  For some reason, DHL is reasonable out of the UK and stupid expensive out of other countries.  $250 is the real cost from Ukraine!


----------



## funkur

gancanjam said:


> How do you like your Utopia with FA-10 ?


I don't have the Utopia, sorry.  I had a pair of Stellia but sold them within a few days of receiving the Verite C


----------



## gancanjam

funkur said:


> I don't have the Utopia, sorry.  I had a pair of Stellia but sold them within a few days of receiving the Verite C



The Quote/Reply sometimes can be finicky, was trying to ask another head Fier about Utopia but it quoted/replied to you..sorry


----------



## gto88

funkur said:


> When I ordered my FA-10 back in March, Flux threw in DHL shipping in exchange for waiting.  Once it shipped, I had it in 1 week to MD, USA.
> 
> In terms of the PayPal fee, it's pretty expensive for businesses to accept PayPal in certain countries (like 4.5+% and that's for a bank funded purchase, even more for a credit card).  I sent them 749 USD for my purchase using TransferWise, it only cost $6 vs $38 for PayPal.
> 
> Sure, they could raise the price to 799 USD and include the PayPal fees, but at least they are being upfront.  It's up to the customer how much they want to pay for PayPal convienince and shipping speed.  For some reason, DHL is reasonable out of the UK and stupid expensive out of other countries.  $250 is the real cost from Ukraine!


To make it easier for the business, they should plant a shipping warehouse in NA.


----------



## buonassi

well maybe team up with a US distributor...sure, but to invest in plant and property in the US probably doesn't make sense for their size of a business.


----------



## gto88

buonassi said:


> well maybe team up with a US distributor...sure, but to invest in plant and property in the US probably doesn't make sense for their size of a business.


it is chicken and egg circle.
You see, hifiman for example, has a shipping/receiving location in US and it is not a company nor warehouse per my understanding.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I recently got a pair of Focal Utopias and I think the FA-10 pairs very nicely with it. Not quite at the level of the Feliks Euforia but I would be fairly content if FA-10 was the only amp I had.


----------



## Slim1970

driftingbunnies said:


> I recently got a pair of Focal Utopias and I think the FA-10 pairs very nicely with it. Not quite at the level of the Feliks Euforia but I would be fairly content if FA-10 was the only amp I had.


Nice, the Utopia's pair well with just about any amp. They are very revealing headphones and you can get them to sound like your upstream gear. It sounds like the FA-10 has enough warmth to make it a really nice pairing.


----------



## teknorob23

I've enjoyed reading all the impressions posted here while i've been away, but having been listening directly out of my Hugo2 for the last 3 weeks and really enjoying it, i was worried i might have fallen out of love with the FA12.  I neednt have worried, one night back and not a single thought about going straight back into the h2, the way frequency's flow in and out of one another and the extra texture and shape each note has is just as beguiling as it ever was.

There seems to have been a raft of "album of the year" worthy electronic music coming out over the last few weeks, which has made coming back to 14 days quarantine a little more bearable. The absolute highlight for me being "Articulation " by Rival Consoles (96/24 on Qobuz), short but seriously sweet and sounding stunning on the FA12.

Almost taken my mind off the 2 more weeks of waiting ahead before the FCN10 to arrive  



PS. im pretty sure the FLA warranty is non-transferable


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> There seems to have been a raft of "album of the year" worthy electronic music coming out over the last few weeks, which has made coming back to 14 days quarantine a little more bearable. The absolute highlight for me being "Articulation " by Rival Consoles (96/24 on Qobuz), short but seriously sweet and sounding stunning on the FA12.


Appreciate the album share! What are some others you're finding especially good lately?


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> Appreciate the album share! What are some others you're finding especially good lately?



My Rotation of new stuff while i've been away has been...







and still not sure i even like this, but i keep finding myself listening to it... 



and couple of months old but still listening to this a lot.


----------



## tholt

^ Sweet!


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> ^ Sweet!



pleasure, any recommendations gratefully received this end too


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> pleasure, any recommendations gratefully received this end too


Let me dig a little and see what I can find...


----------



## tholt (Aug 13, 2020)

Not new but one of my faves:


Also not new (2017) but a great album:


And here's a free sampler that is worth the download:


----------



## tholt (Aug 13, 2020)

Hmm, obviously did something wrong with the copy paste. Do you just copy the share link from BC?

NM, figured it out


----------



## froger

After burning in my Fa-10 for more than 200 hours, I enjoy it even more. Music flows more easily, more transparent, detailed and most importantly smooth. I had quite a good time listening to HD800 (good bass and musical with FA-10, which is not usually the case for HD800 with other amps) with it though ZMF Auteur is still top in my stable.


----------



## tholt

froger said:


> After burning in my Fa-10 for more than 200 hours, I enjoy it even more. Music flows more easily, more transparent, detailed and most importantly smooth.


Good to know things are still changing through that amount of time. Something to look forward to



teknorob23 said:


> and still not sure i even like this, but i keep finding myself listening to it...


I hear you. I feel the same way about his stuff


----------



## GU1DO

cfranchi said:


> FA-10 pro is just released, 749$


what is the difference to the regular one ?


----------



## Belialspawn

From the facebook page, I think the 2 main features are Bipolar input instead of J-fet and IR remote port + i would guess motorised volume.

FA-10 features

- JFET inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design;
- Neat high freqs
- Full-bodied mids
 - Fast and soft bass response with a bit forced Mid-Bass

FA-10 PRO features

- BIPOLAR inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design
- Crisp high freqs
- Linear mids
- Precise, percussive bass response
 - Remote control (optional)


----------



## NickT23

funkur said:


> I don't have the Utopia, sorry.  I had a pair of Stellia but sold them within a few days of receiving the Verite C


Why VC over Stellia ?


----------



## NickT23

Belialspawn said:


> From the facebook page, I think the 2 main features are Bipolar input instead of J-fet and IR remote port + i would guess motorised volume.
> 
> FA-10 features
> 
> ...


What does that even means ?


----------



## Belialspawn

They replaced the JFet ( junction-gate field effect transistor) from the input signal to use another type; BJT (Bipolar junction transistor) to process the signal slightly different.

" The major difference between BJT and FET is that, in a field effect transistor only majority charge carries flows, whereas in BJT both majority and minority charge carry flows. "

That's as far as my engineering skills will take me


----------



## Blizniak

Pro is more clinical, not as warm.


----------



## Slim1970

I ask Vitaliy that question when I was inquiring what would be a better fit for the headphones in my collection. I wanted to know if I could change my order to the pro version. Here’s his reply on the FA-10 and FA-10 Pro.

_“PRO has own strong sides, for example bass section is more trumped, focused and articulated, technically it is more interesting, but you also should understand that you will lose at depth. Mids and highs share a bit more transparency, clearness (for my taste sometimes it sounds a bit sharply) maybe with warm DAC source you can reach success, but there is always roulette game. 

Main point that you need to understand that is FA-10 classic support really organic, seamless and emotional nature of the sound, FA-10 Pro will share more crisp and trumped sound and there is always you will have a risk of unnatural brightness“._

So after the email exchange I decided to stick with the regular version of the amp. Since my DAC’s are neutral with very good technicalities.


----------



## rmsanger

I'm holding out for the Volot release within the month and associated reviews.... The initial FA-10 feedback wasn't positive enough for me to make an investment yet.


----------



## funkur (Aug 15, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Why VC over Stellia ?



At first listen, I was smitten with the Stellia but quickly found them fatiguing once I had them to demo at home, especially when I switched out the stock cables to more revealing ones.

The VC to me are simply more musical and enjoyable for long listening sessions.  They are also the most open sounding closed backs I’ve ever heard. 


Side note: I had the Audeze LCD-XC for 4-5 years. At the time of purchase, they were one of the best closed backs around and I was looking for a 2020 upgrade.  Open backs are not a viable option for me at home.

I also used to work in hi-fi and still have a lot of friends in the industry. I did not pay retail for the Stellias - the VC cost me more even lightly used - Zach/ZMF could ask $3-3500 for them and I’d still be impressed. While I don’t always agree with Stereophile, the A+ rating is warranted.


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I ask Vitaliy that question when I was inquiring what would be a better fit for the headphones in my collection. I wanted to know if I could change my order to the pro version. Here’s his reply on the FA-10 and FA-10 Pro.
> 
> _“PRO has own strong sides, for example bass section is more trumped, focused and articulated, technically it is more interesting, but you also should understand that you will lose at depth. Mids and highs share a bit more transparency, clearness (for my taste sometimes it sounds a bit sharply) maybe with warm DAC source you can reach success, but there is always roulette game.
> 
> ...



I’m glad that I have choose FA-10 for my HE6se, don’t know if my Chord Mojo DAC can be called warm.


----------



## Blizniak

cfranchi said:


> I’m glad that I have choose FA-10 for my HE6se, don’t know if my Chord Mojo DAC can be called warm.


It sure can, it's typical warm brit-fi.


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> I’m glad that I have choose FA-10 for my HE6se, don’t know if my Chord Mojo DAC can be called warm.


I think I'm going to like the FA-10 as well with my gear. The TT2 has a slightly warm, natural sound to it. I'm not sure how it would pair with the FA-10 but I'm going to try it. I want to listen to the RME ADi-2 DAC first since I have a bunch of PEQ presets stored in. The TT2 is more plug and play and I know what to expect from it.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I wanted to share my experience with the HE-6SE's with the FA-10. FA-10 had plenty of power for these headphones. I found that mid-gain and turning the volume knob to 11-12 was the best vs using high-gain. The bass was detailed and impactful. When compared to my integrated NAD amp, the NAD amp had even more impact but it could be due to the character of the amp. The FA-10 provided a very enjoyable experience with the HE-6SEs. It brought more musicality to the music compared to my NAD amp which was more neutral sounding. I didn't notice any drop in resolution and felt like for a headphone like the HE-6SE which is known to be very amp picky (as in it requires a large amount of power), it's amazing that something like the FA-10 under 1k does a great job when more expensive amps struggle.


----------



## cfranchi

driftingbunnies said:


> I wanted to share my experience with the HE-6SE's with the FA-10. FA-10 had plenty of power for these headphones. I found that mid-gain and turning the volume knob to 11-12 was the best vs using high-gain. The bass was detailed and impactful. When compared to my integrated NAD amp, the NAD amp had even more impact but it could be due to the character of the amp. The FA-10 provided a very enjoyable experience with the HE-6SEs. It brought more musicality to the music compared to my NAD amp which was more neutral sounding. I didn't notice any drop in resolution and felt like for a headphone like the HE-6SE which is known to be very amp picky (as in it requires a large amount of power), it's amazing that something like the FA-10 under 1k does a great job when more expensive amps struggle.



Interesting, I didn’t try mid gain, just went for high gain and was happy with what I heard. What is your DAC  output voltage, mine is 3V.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I'm using the Yggdrasil balanced outs which is 4V.


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Why VC over Stellia ?



just to chime in on this. i had the stellias for about a year then bought the VC's blind based on a friends recommendation, with a view of keeping the pair i preferred. Initially the VC's blew me away, they are a real show stopper, super wide "must be open backs" stage, visceral bass, rich tonal balance without any loss of high end extension. I didnt even pick the Stellias up again for about a month. 

Only when i decided the Stellia's were the one to be sold, i thought i should have quick listen and wow distance really had made the heart grow fonder. I had been slightly less enamoured by the VCs, but could put my finger on, but listening again to the Focals, it's the slightly recessed mids which create a lack of immediacy in the VCs which the Stellias have. The VCs to my ears are slightly W-shaped where as the Stellias apart from a slight bass hump are much more even. They're less romantic but more of sophisticated hifi presentation, edging it on resolution, dynamics and imaging and i just found them more nourishing over the long term. 

I know i'm in the minority here and neither HP is better of worse, just as you'd expect at this level it comes more down to matching your preferences. Sadly i had to sell the stellias too in the end, with my TT2 and euforia so i havent got to hear them them with the FA12... yet!


----------



## omniweltall

teknorob23 said:


> just to chime in on this. i had the stellias for about a year then bought the VC's blind based on a friends recommendation, with a view of keeping the pair i preferred. Initially the VC's blew me away, they are a real show stopper, super wide "must be open backs" stage, visceral bass, rich tonal balance without any loss of high end extension. I didnt even pick the Stellias up again for about a month.
> 
> Only when i decided the Stellia's were the one to be sold, i thought i should have quick listen and wow distance really had made the heart grow fonder. I had been slightly less enamoured by the VCs, but could put my finger on, but listening again to the Focals, it's the slightly recessed mids which create a lack of immediacy in the VCs which the Stellias have. The VCs to my ears are slightly W-shaped where as the Stellias apart from a slight bass hump are much more even. They're less romantic but more of sophisticated hifi presentation, edging it on resolution, dynamics and imaging and i just found them more nourishing over the long term.
> 
> I know i'm in the minority here and neither HP is better of worse, just as you'd expect at this level it comes more down to matching your preferences. Sadly i had to sell the stellias too in the end, with my TT2 and euforia so i havent got to hear them them with the FA12... yet!


They are both great, but vastly different style and more complementary than substitute imo. I would have a hard time deciding.


----------



## teknorob23

omniweltall said:


> They are both great, but vastly different style and more complementary than substitute imo. I would have a hard time deciding.



absolutely agree, id have kept both if i could.


----------



## jaredn13

Currently running SMSL M200/SP200 stack with Sennheiser HD 700 (with a bit of EQ) and I love the open wide sound stage and details, but I am looking for something a little more fun.

So while I'm waiting on my new Audeze LCD-2 Classic to arrive I'm considering picking up one of the FA amps. Anyone have FA10 or FA12 with LCD-2s and/or HD700 that can chime in on how it sounds?


----------



## TheMadHatter

Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.

I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.    

Anyway, today the left channel (SE) started giving a kazoo like buzz.  I have changed cables, dacs, headhones etc; it's the amp. Ugh. 

I have emailed them and we will see what happens next.  But sharing my experience for anyone interested.


----------



## omniweltall

TheMadHatter said:


> Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.
> 
> I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.
> 
> ...


Not good at all. This is also the kind of things I'm waiting for. Hope you get it sorted out.


----------



## teknorob23

TheMadHatter said:


> Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.
> 
> I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about this. If you haven’t heard back yet, try messaging via Facebook I have found they come back much quicker this way. I hope there’s a simple resolution, but keep us posted


----------



## TheMadHatter

Quick update.  Vitaly has been exchanging emails with me.  Trying to diagnose.


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 18, 2020)

TheMadHatter said:


> Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.
> 
> I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.
> 
> ...



They are responsive support team for sure. Reach out through FB or add their Ukraine number in Whassap tp chat with them. I see the Amp was built very well and they do hand testing for several weeks before releasing so bit surprised to see an issue in the equipment.. hey it's electronics right ?


----------



## teknorob23

I'm a bit late to the party, but how good is the new'ish album by Clap! Clap!, electronica and techno meets world music, sounds pretentious but it isnt and the Fa12's keeping pace perfectly


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> I'm a bit late to the party, but how good is the new'ish album by Clap! Clap!, electronica and techno meets world music, sounds pretentious but it isnt and the Fa12's keeping pace perfectly



Checking it out now. First track, that is some meaty bass!


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> Checking it out now. First track, that is some meaty bass!



track 2 is the best way in. The FA12 learly demonstrates here a warm'ish amp doesnt have to have an unextended/ dark top end, it copes with the intricacies and change of direction without missing a beat... that said i've moved on to stalwart Technique/ NewOrder .. always a sign i've had one more glass of red than intended


----------



## Klmahnn

Stumbled across FLUX only recently... I'm intrigued by the positive response of the amps so far. I'm also listening to Electronic in one form or another for most of my listening and judging by the comparison between the FA-10 and FA-10 Pro, the Pro seems as though it might be more suited to my needs with the Verite C being a somewhat darker headphone. After reading @saadi703's comparison, I'm thinking the A90 might be a better choice if you're not after the extra warmth... has anyone else compared it with any of the FLUX FA-XYZ offerings?


----------



## driftingbunnies

Klmahnn said:


> Stumbled across FLUX only recently... I'm intrigued by the positive response of the amps so far. I'm also listening to Electronic in one form or another for most of my listening and judging by the comparison between the FA-10 and FA-10 Pro, the Pro seems as though it might be more suited to my needs with the Verite C being a somewhat darker headphone. After reading @saadi703's comparison, I'm thinking the A90 might be a better choice if you're not after the extra warmth... has anyone else compared it with any of the FLUX FA-XYZ offerings?



I have the FA-10 and I'm using it with my Verite Opens. I've also used it with HE-6SE, Utopias and Aeolus. All of those headphones paired well with the FA-10. The only headphone that didn't do as well was my DT990 600ohm but I think most high impedance Beyers lean heavily towards tubes when compared to SS. 

I wouldn't call the FA-10 overly warm but it's definitely not as neutral and dry as the A90 based on what people have said about the A90. Power-wise, I think they're both very comparable. I don't think you can really go wrong with either but I've been enjoying my FA-10.


----------



## Klmahnn

Thanks! Good to know the synergy is there with the Verites - I see you're not the only one to say so! It's true, it seems a close call. I imagine the FA-10 to have superior build quality over the A90, on the other hand, the environmentalist in me is urging not to go class A lol.


----------



## driftingbunnies

It does get warm when you're using it. I would say that the build quality for FA-10 is just OK imo. It's definitely a solid unit but I would have liked different switches and knobs. The connections are great and the finish is good as well. I haven't tried the A90 but currently it seems like China manufacturing is pretty good for the price.

Anyways, FA-10/12/10pro, whichever one you go with, is definitely a good option if you're looking at SS amps under $1k.


----------



## Klmahnn

Thanks, will definitely mull it over awhile!


----------



## rmsanger

driftingbunnies said:


> I have the FA-10 and I'm using it with my Verite Opens. I've also used it with HE-6SE, Utopias and Aeolus. All of those headphones paired well with the FA-10. The only headphone that didn't do as well was my DT990 600ohm but I think most high impedance Beyers lean heavily towards tubes when compared to SS.
> 
> I wouldn't call the FA-10 overly warm but it's definitely not as neutral and dry as the A90 based on what people have said about the A90. Power-wise, I think they're both very comparable. I don't think you can really go wrong with either but I've been enjoying my FA-10.



Do you think it sounds like a $750 HP amp or does it punch above it's weight?  Just wondering if you've compared it to higher end HP amps (Headamp GX/Mini, Ifi Ican pro, Violectric V281, Phonitor 2/X)?


----------



## cfranchi

FA-10 punch way above its price. Just think at the same specs into a Violectric amp and imagine what would be the price.


----------



## driftingbunnies

rmsanger said:


> Do you think it sounds like a $750 HP amp or does it punch above it's weight?  Just wondering if you've compared it to higher end HP amps (Headamp GX/Mini, Ifi Ican pro, Violectric V281, Phonitor 2/X)?



The only thing I can compare it with is the Feliks Euforia and I would say the FA-10 can hold its own. It's difficult to compare Tube and SS though considering all of my headphones do very well on tubes. The only situation where the FA-10 did better than the Euforia was the HE-6SE but I think that might be expected. In my setup, the Euforia provides the little extra that makes the music even more enjoyable (bass control, effortless vocals, smooth treble, etc). If you were to take away the Euforia from me and I only had the FA-10, I would still be very content.


----------



## Klmahnn

cfranchi said:


> FA-10 punch way above its price. Just think at the same specs into a Violectric amp and imagine what would be the price.


It sure does look like a sound value proposition, nonetheless, once shipping/import etc. is factored in I imagine it comes in at quite a bit more than the A90. Will be interesting to see more comparisons.


----------



## gancanjam (Aug 26, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Do you think it sounds like a $750 HP amp or does it punch above it's weight?  Just wondering if you've compared it to higher end HP amps (Headamp GX/Mini, Ifi Ican pro, Violectric V281, Phonitor 2/X)?



It is more than punching above the weight. Recently listened to a Rogue audio ($2500) tube amp, Luxman P750U ($5000) amp, ifi Can pro ($1800) amp  with HE1K & Utopia. To me,  Flux amp never felt out of place compared to these three amps, it just felt like a different sound signature regardless of the price. Within these three amps though there was an hierarchy to my ears,  Luxman P750U >=  ifi Can pro > Rogue audio. I am a transparent, analytical amp lover but FCN-10 sound signature grew on me to enjoy many of if not all of the songs i have with FCN-10, i still dont like quite a few songs with FCN-10. A specific combo i can cite to give more info is DCS Bartok combo + HE1K is excellent and was beating FCN-10 consistently, but hey Bartok is $16K !!

About Phonitor comparisons, one person in this forum mentioned Phonitors has an edge over Flux though it did not sounded like a big margin, dont remember the pairing details he mentioned as it matters a lot

I have DAC/Amp FCN-10 combo and DAC is the relatively weaker link in the combo which has scope to do better with better resolution while the FA-10 amp part is strong. For a musical, smooth, powerful, Bassy, Thick mids, refined sounding, forgiving preference FA-10 will be good choice. To articulate further, Smooth& Refined means  the instrument Dynamics will not create an aggressive output playing with your senses but it will be elegantly present without fatiguing you, e.g. you will not feel the sharp edges of violin and trailing echo which can give an exhilarating experience with some amps but with Flux the violin will sound present, pleasant & smooth without a fatigue. The Fun portion comes from the impactful Bass though. If this is your cup of tea then with a good resolving  DAC, FA-10 will be a good choice.

@Klmahnn  have not heard A90 yet but it is a Neutral transparent amp slightly tilted towards warmth per the review i have read. It may have more dynamics and treble engagement, @saadi703 has already written in this forum so we all can refer to his detailed comparison


----------



## Klmahnn

TheMadHatter said:


> Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.
> 
> I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.
> 
> ...


I currently have the Element II so nice to know this is a clear upgrade. Hope your issue gets fixed quickly.


----------



## Klmahnn

teknorob23 said:


> I've enjoyed reading all the impressions posted here while i've been away, but having been listening directly out of my Hugo2 for the last 3 weeks and really enjoying it, i was worried i might have fallen out of love with the FA12.  I neednt have worried, one night back and not a single thought about going straight back into the h2, the way frequency's flow in and out of one another and the extra texture and shape each note has is just as beguiling as it ever was.
> 
> There seems to have been a raft of "album of the year" worthy electronic music coming out over the last few weeks, which has made coming back to 14 days quarantine a little more bearable. The absolute highlight for me being "Articulation " by Rival Consoles (96/24 on Qobuz), short but seriously sweet and sounding stunning on the FA12.
> 
> ...



Came for the info staying for the tunes


----------



## manishex (Aug 31, 2020)

New similarly priced competition for the flux, burson just released the Soloist 3xp standalone 8w balanced amp, with the ability to op amp roll.

History tells us burson amps are quite musical yet powerful like a class A should be. Right now I'd prefer to use the iec inlet of the flux as opposed to the 24v DC input of the burson as I have invested in some elaborate power cables.


----------



## Slim1970

manishex said:


> New similarly priced competition for the flux, burson just released the Soloist 3xp standalone 8w balanced amp, with the ability to op amp roll.
> 
> History tells us burson amps are quite musical yet powerful like a class A should be. Right now I'd prefer to use the iec inlet of the flux as opposed to the 24v DC input of the burson as I have invested in some elaborate power cables.


I love Burson amps. I've had quite a few of them. Including it's latest the Conductor 3XR. My FA-10 is hopefully nearing completion. I should've held on to it so that I could've compared them side by side.


----------



## TheMadHatter

TheMadHatter said:


> Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.
> 
> I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.
> 
> ...


Follow up:  After a few emails, recorded the sound from the left channel and then compared apples to apples with my Graham Slee amp.  They determined from that there is a damaged circuit in my amp possibly related to powering it on.  Anyway, the plan now is to replace my amp.  Hopefully it's just a fluke.

BTW, Zeos just reviewed (not out yet to non-subscribers) the FA-12S and the FA-10.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Glad you were able to get everything resolved. I did notice on the fluxlab website that the warranty section mentions to connect all the interconnects before the power cable and to disconnect in reverse order. I'm not sure anything went wrong during that process but I do know that some manufacturers decide to remove the more consumer friendly safeguards in order to get the most out of the sound quality. 

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/warranty/


----------



## teknorob23

My Fa12 has been re-united with its big brother from the same mother... and father presumably. I've left it in the corner to gently simmer for the last 72 hours saving my first proper listen for tonight. 



Christening with with the new Kelly Lee Owens album which i've already listened to 4 or 5 times today. Impressions to follow, when i've hopefully got something more useful to say 

WARNING! this image may trigger those OCD sufferers among you....


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> My Fa12 has been re-united with its big brother from the same mother... and father presumably. I've left it in the corner to gently simmer for the last 72 hours saving my first proper listen for tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Finally, looking forward to thoughts and impressions


----------



## tholt

teknorob23 said:


> My Fa12 has been re-united with its big brother from the same mother... and father presumably. I've left it in the corner to gently simmer for the last 72 hours saving my first proper listen for tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So looks like you have the FCN-10 and the FA-12? Interested in any impressions and comparisons. 

That album popped up on my feed. Totally digging it.


----------



## Harmonyx

Fantastic. Can't wait to hear how they compare.


----------



## teknorob23

First off apologies to you all, i just accidentally shared some early impressions comparing the FA12 to FCN10 on Headphone Experiences facebook page. All i can say it was accident and it wont happen again..

Still very early doors.. unsurprisingly they share a house sound and have a lot of immediately similarities, namely nailed on imaging, linear presentation (both leaning towards the sun, the FA12 more so than the 10) but still very even handed across the FR. They both track the source, in my case the hugo2, but adding weight and texture, in very natural smooth sound, knocking off the some of the H2's sharp edges. The 12 is warmer but never too much, bass has more presence and for me the decay is so spot where i like it, sounding completely natural to my ears at least, where the with 10  its a tiny bit clipped for my personal preferences but its probably because its so transparent, so pairing with other sources will give different outcomes, which reinforces my confidence in the quality of the advice given by VIitaliy at FLA when i was deciding blind or deaf between the 12 and the 10.  I explained my current pairing equipment, my  love of listening to techno/ electronica in as analogue form possible, as well explaining the type of dynamic driver HPs i liked so in the hope my choice could be future proofed to some degree.

Its too early to say the 12 is unequivocally the right amp out of the 2 for more, because, with 3 4hrs+ listening sessions with a fairly (not completely) run FCN10, i'm finding it has its own X-Factor that's making me go to bed too late, its different from that possessed by the 12 but is proving to be on a par in terms of addictiveness. One thing i can say is they are both accomplished way beyond their price tags and i wouldnt be unhappy with either of them. I'm borrowing my ex Hugo TT2 back for a bitter sweet weekend, because i'm really keen to hear how far they can both scale.  I will post more detailed impressions once i've got my thoughts straight and i'll have a proper listen to the DAC and comment on that too.

In the meantime, apologies again for the facebook thing, it wont happen again i promise


----------



## driftingbunnies

Just making sure, are you testing the amp section only for the FCN-10? Thanks for the impressions, looking forward to how they compare with the tt2


----------



## teknorob23

driftingbunnies said:


> Just making sure, are you testing the amp section only for the FCN-10? Thanks for the impressions, looking forward to how they compare with the tt2



yes I am comparing amp sections only. I have Them both being fed by the hugo2 with the same power an interconnects. I’ll post separately about the fcn10’s dac implementation


----------



## cfranchi

Is it me or is FA-10 smoother and less « agressive » after it is playing for some time after power on ? Is class A amp like tube amps ? Or it is just my brain !


----------



## driftingbunnies

cfranchi said:


> Is it me or is FA-10 smoother and less « agressive » after it is playing for some time after power on ? Is class A amp like tube amps ? Or it is just my brain !



I've found that to be the case as well over the past month or so


----------



## gancanjam

cfranchi said:


> Is it me or is FA-10 smoother and less « agressive » after it is playing for some time after power on ? Is class A amp like tube amps ? Or it is just my brain !



No you are right  it has some Tube amp vibes with smoothness/musicality. People have few variations of "Aggressive" definition, some including me perceive Treble energy, on the face Dynamics, Instrument sharpness, Micro details contributing to aggressiveness and FA-10 is not made for those characteristics hence i can see why some don't perceive this as aggressive. But it does has some other factors qualifying it to be aggressive such a speed & Bass impact.


----------



## teknorob23

gancanjam said:


> No you are right  it has some Tube amp vibes with smoothness/musicality. People have few variations of "Aggressive" definition, some including me perceive Treble energy, on the face Dynamics, Instrument sharpness, Micro details contributing to aggressiveness and FA-10 is not made for those characteristics hence i can see why some don't perceive this as aggressive. But it does has some other factors qualifying it to be aggressive such a speed & Bass impact.



both amps need a good a hour to warm up, improved bass is definition is really noticeable and a loss of edginess at the top. I'm not sure i'd call it aggressive, fast and plenty of attack but it never tips over, i think the source feeding could play a huge part in this what with it being so transparent.


----------



## cfranchi

teknorob23 said:


> both amps need a good a hour to warm up, improved bass is definition is really noticeable and a loss of edginess at the top. I'm not sure i'd call it aggressive, fast and plenty of attack but it never tips over, i think the source feeding could play a huge part in this what with it being so transparent.



Yes when I said aggressive it was a bit exagerated 
I agree with you, it seems that after 1h there is a loss of edginess at the top.


----------



## rmsanger

Any updates on the Volot rollout?  I was told about a month ago that we were close for release.


----------



## sahmen (Sep 7, 2020)

Anyone here with impressions of the FA-10 paired with the Susvara or the LCD-4.?  Yes, I have read the review on Headfonia, but I was expecting to find some Susvara/FA-10 reviews on here too.


----------



## funkur

teknorob23 said:


> yes I am comparing amp sections only. I have Them both being fed by the hugo2 with the same power an interconnects. I’ll post separately about the fcn10’s dac implementation



Looking forward to this!  I originally inquired about the FA-12 but Flux recommended the the FA-10 to me (and I certainly can’t complain). 

If it’s easy, try your RME with a 15v power supply too... I would love to hear what you think.


----------



## gancanjam

sahmen said:


> Anyone here with impressions of the FA-10 paired with the Susvara or the LCD-4.?  Yes, I have read the review on Headfonia, but I was expecting to find some Susvara/FA-10 reviews on here too.



This impression is from Susvara owner

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...s-impressions-discussion.930883/post-15695792


----------



## cfranchi

gancanjam said:


> This impression is from Susvara owner
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...s-impressions-discussion.930883/post-15695792



Interesting, however THX / A90 are analytical amps, ideally they would have to be compared to FA-10 Pro.

Here is an interesting comparison between A90 and FA-10 :

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-review-resetting-the-trend/

« Flux Lab Acoustics team wanted something different, they wanted to offer that magical Class-A sound, that unique topology and sound signature that less and less manufacturers are working with. Sadly, due to newer legislation and regulations of power consumption all over the globe, Class-A amps will slowly start disappearing from the Hi-Fi landscape. Class-A is having an efficiency of only about ~35%, everything else is transformed into heat that goes to waste. When it comes to sound, FA-10 and most of the class-A amps are all about midrange presence, about hard-slamming bass, about being natural sounding, without a single trace of _digitus_ or brightness. FA-10 is indeed boosting a bit the low-end (bass) and the midrange, it also calms down the treble area by few notches. FA-10 is a warmer and a smoother sounding amplifier, it is all about having a bold sound with a heavy tonality. FA-10 is still the most powerful headphone amplifier with those 16 Watts under its belt. That power translates into an amazing punch and slam into the eardrums, you need to hear to believe that slam with some snappy music. It’s a transient monster when it comes to faster executed notes.

These two designs can’t be compared, it’s an apple vs oranges thing. I personally love both designs, FA-10 works a lot better for simply enjoying your music without thinking about small details, stage size depth, frequency and so on. FA-10 brings more emotions from your tunes and highlights them. It’s a colorful sounding amplifier, it has a slightly warmer tonality and impresses if you looking for an alive and vivid experience. »


----------



## teknorob23

cfranchi said:


> Interesting, however THX / A90 are analytical amps, ideally they would have to be compared to FA-10 Pro.
> 
> Here is an interesting comparison between A90 and FA-10 :
> 
> ...



I agree 100%. I have a £6k active genelec monitors and sub which i use for work. They are a warts and all accurate tool, but they're not what you could call pleasurable to listen too. You can hear everything in mix often to the detriment of the track you are listening too, with bad or less than optimal recordings sounding at best distracting at worse, straight unlistenable. The FA10 & 12 as with all hifi are tuned to be musical, make the music exciting to listen too and kind of bridge the gap between the studio recording and placing the listener in front or among the players in a live performance. Choosing the amp is then down to match your personal prefences.

I find the FCn10 to be plenty revealing, transparent and in linear, even if thad line is drawn slightly above a completely flat frequency response. I get levels of detail that i get from my studio set up, but in much more cohesive package. I can tune into the detail for critical listening or let mix wash over me and enjoy the music as a whole, which is harder in the studio. 

I struggle a little bit to understand why audio enthusiasts/ music lover's should want something to sound like an amp of headphones used in a studio. Are they listening to music for the love and pleasure it can bring or are they in it to enjoy the technicalities of reproduction. I'm not saying the latter is wrong, this is a hobby and each of us completely entitled to approach the hobby in what ever way brings us the most enjoyment, it just doesnt float my personal one man boat.


----------



## gancanjam

cfranchi said:


> Interesting, however THX / A90 are analytical amps, ideally they would have to be compared to FA-10 Pro.
> 
> Here is an interesting comparison between A90 and FA-10 :
> 
> ...



Good summary on FA-10 !


----------



## gancanjam (Sep 8, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> I agree 100%. I have a £6k active genelec monitors and sub which i use for work. They are a warts and all accurate tool, but they're not what you could call pleasurable to listen too. You can hear everything in mix often to the detriment of the track you are listening too, with bad or less than optimal recordings sounding at best distracting at worse, straight unlistenable. The FA10 & 12 as with all hifi are tuned to be musical, make the music exciting to listen too and kind of bridge the gap between the studio recording and placing the listener in front or among the players in a live performance. Choosing the amp is then down to match your personal prefences.
> 
> I find the FCn10 to be plenty revealing, transparent and in linear, even if thad line is drawn slightly above a completely flat frequency response. I get levels of detail that i get from my studio set up, but in much more cohesive package. I can tune into the detail for critical listening or let mix wash over me and enjoy the music as a whole, which is harder in the studio.
> 
> I struggle a little bit to understand why audio enthusiasts/ music lover's should want something to sound like an amp of headphones used in a studio. Are they listening to music for the love and pleasure it can bring or are they in it to enjoy the technicalities of reproduction. I'm not saying the latter is wrong, this is a hobby and each of us completely entitled to approach the hobby in what ever way brings us the most enjoyment, it just doesnt float my personal one man boat.



FCN10/FA10 to your point is not for critical studio monitor listening.  I do not listen to lot of Lossless, DSD, Master quality music in Classical & Orchestra genre,  but listen to ton of music which are in Tidal HiFi quality , CD quality and few decades older International music in EDM/Pop/Rock genre and this is bit forgiving and many sub standard res song you throw at it sounds nice. I sometime even listen to Youtube songs  as they are not available in Tidal,  with Flux and still sound inoffensive & decent without punishing me hard. So in that aspect i see this amp to be in my rotation as a clinical amp will not cut it for low res songs


----------



## teknorob23

friday night gate crasher..


----------



## jaredn13 (Sep 11, 2020)

I get my FA-10 sometime today according to DHL. Going to pair it with the RME. I'll be comparing it to the SMSL stack directly.  LCD2C for music, the HD700 is use mostly for gaming and video calls.

Whichever stack wins I'll be selling the loser.  I'm curious to see if the SMSL stack @ $500 can keep up with the FA-10 + RME @ over $2000.  I'm not a critical listener, so I'm guessing it might be pretty close.


----------



## Slim1970

jaredn13 said:


> I get my FA-10 sometime today according to DHL. Going to pair it with the RME. I'll be comparing it to the SMSL stack directly.  LCD2C for music, the HD700 is use mostly for gaming and video calls.
> 
> Whichever stack wins I'll be selling the loser.  I'm curious to see if the SMSL stack @ $500 can keep up with the FA-10 + RME @ over $2000.  I'm not a critical listener, so I'm guessing it might be pretty close.


That’s my plan as well. I will pair my FA-10 with my RME. My FA-10 shipped today and I can’t wait to get it. I’m very curious as to what you think of the sound. Post some sound impressions when you get a chance


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> friday night gate crasher..


That’s a nice collection of amps you have there. What do you think of the A90 compared to the Flux Labs products?


----------



## Wesley88

So I have a Schiit Bifrost 2 and ZMF Eikons. Looking at purchasing the Flux FA-12 or Burson Soloist 3XP after returning my Violectric V280 due to a buzzing issue. I know the FA-12 is still quite new and the Soloist isn't even out yet, but if anyone has any input on synergy, that would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Harmonyx

Wesley88 said:


> So I have a Schiit Bifrost 2 and ZMF Eikons. Looking at purchasing the Flux FA-12 or Burson Soloist 3XP after returning my Violectric V280 due to a buzzing issue. I know the FA-12 is still quite new and the Soloist isn't even out yet, but if anyone has any input on synergy, that would be greatly appreciated!



Great question! 

The special offer on the Soloist 3X ends by the 15 Sep and it is a beautiful looking unit. I was torn myself between the FA-12 and Soloist 3X but, after chatting with some people that have demo'd the Burson Conductor, I'm still planning on ordering a Flux FA-12 (should suit my preferences / needs more and slightly easier on the wallet). 

Would love to hear others' opinion or comparison who have got experience with the newer line of Burson gear.


----------



## jaker782

Very interested in trying one of these amps.  I recently acquired an HE-6se and think the FA-10 might be a great pairing.  Anyone running one of these with an HE-6?


----------



## manishex

Z released his review for the FA-12S, the cheaper ($500) single ended version of the FA-12


----------



## Harmonyx (Sep 14, 2020)

Great exposure for Flux Labs. Z gave an overall positive review but not much detail in regards to how it sounds...
"He really likes this amp"
"Adds a touch of warm Class A beauty to your music"
"Wipes the floor with the Jottenhein"
"Arguably better option than THX 789"
"Might be a permanent fixture on his new desk to replace the Rebel amp"
As mentioned, he doesn't describe the sound character in depth, or which headphones pair well, but he gave a very positive general impression and applauded their entry into the market at the $500 price range.


----------



## omniweltall (Sep 14, 2020)

manishex said:


> Z released his review for the FA-12S, the cheaper ($500) single ended version of the FA-12


Thanks for the heads up.



Harmonyx said:


> Great exposure for Flux Labs. Z gave an overall positive review but not much detail in regards to how it sounds...
> "He really likes this amp"
> "Adds a touch of warm Class A beauty to your music"
> "Wipes the floor with the Jottenhein"
> ...


Better than Jot or THX 789 is not something that is useful at all. What is interesting is how this measures up with the big boy SS amps. Otherwise, at this price, it is not attractive enough.

I never expect much from Z. I like him, but not for his ears. He never had much to say about sound. And he doesn't have much experience with expensive amps. He plays around mostly at Jot level or lower. Anyway, I still enjoy his reviews. He's got an interesting personality and fun to watch. And (as far as I know) at least he is honest about his reviews.


----------



## Slim1970

Harmonyx said:


> Great exposure for Flux Labs. Z gave an overall positive review but not much detail in regards to how it sounds...
> "He really likes this amp"
> "Adds a touch of warm Class A beauty to your music"
> "Wipes the floor with the Jottenhein"
> ...


My FA-10 will be here by the weekend. So I’m sort of interested in what he has to say to about it. His review of the FA-12S was very positive but there wasn’t a lot of input about its sound.


----------



## cfranchi

jaker782 said:


> Very interested in trying one of these amps.  I recently acquired an HE-6se and think the FA-10 might be a great pairing.  Anyone running one of these with an HE-6?



My mini review of FA-10 and HE6se

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa10/#reviews


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> My FA-10 will be here by the weekend. So I’m sort of interested in what he has to say to about it. His review of the FA-12S was very positive but there wasn’t a lot of input about its sound.



Yeah that's his MO he does 50% on form function features and 25% BS and 25% SQ.  I'm a fan of his but he's definitely not a reviewer you go to for a full in-depth technical review.  He seems to really have glowing response to the Flux lineup; I personally don't care for the gold color nor the remote looks but that is an easy change with the other colors.   I'm surprised he was that taken by the FA12 and not as enthused with the FA10 to come but I guess we'll wait for that one.  He really did love the RebelAmp so if this replaces it that shows you how much he enjoyed the product.


----------



## sahmen

I am personally quite interested in how well the FA-10 does detail, especially detail at the top-end, but also in bass texture. I have been stricken by how often the FA-10 is placed on the side of "smooth" and "musical," as opposed to, say, the Topping A90, or even Flux Labs own FA-10 pro, which are placed in the "analytical," "dry," maybe "neutral" department, or in any case characterized as probably too revealing for their own good, for showing all the "pimples and warts" of badly recorded material.

Well, in theory, "smooth" and "musical" sound good to me, and the Flux Labs guy I chatted with at length on facebook "diagnosed" me, almost instantly, upon hearing about my DACs and other components of choice, as being an FA-10 as opposed to FA-10 Pro guy. What concerns me, though, is how much detail, if any, gets lost in all that "smoothness" and "musicality" the FA-10 fans have been talking about.  I do like detail, but without any harshness or fatigue, just like my HeKSE or Audeze LCD-4 cans handle detail and texture, but especially, without any feeling that some important dimension of detail has been sacrificed in some kind of roll-off in order to enhance that smoothness. I wish I could hear the FA-10 and the pro version or the Topping A90 in order to make a determination for myself, but since that seems impossible right now, I shall defer to the ears and judgment of forum members who have heard the two approaches. Muchas gracias.


----------



## Wesley88

What's the difference in shipping options? What would be best for USA destination?


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> I am personally quite interested in how well the FA-10 does detail, especially detail at the top-end, but also in bass texture. I have been stricken by how often the FA-10 is placed on the side of "smooth" and "musical," as opposed to, say, the Topping A90, or even Flux Labs own FA-10 pro, which are placed in the "analytical," "dry," maybe "neutral" department, or in any case characterized as probably too revealing for their own good, for showing all the "pimples and warts" of badly recorded material.
> 
> Well, in theory, "smooth" and "musical" sound good to me, and the Flux Labs guy I chatted with at length on facebook "diagnosed" me, almost instantly, upon hearing about my DACs and other components of choice, as being an FA-10 as opposed to FA-10 Pro guy. What concerns me, though, is how much detail, if any, gets lost in all that "smoothness" and "musicality" the FA-10 fans have been talking about.  I do like detail, but without any harshness or fatigue, just like my HeKSE or Audeze LCD-4 cans handle detail and texture, but especially, without any feeling that some important dimension of detail has been sacrificed in some kind of roll-off in order to enhance that smoothness. I wish I could hear the FA-10 and the pro version or the Topping A90 in order to make a determination for myself, but since that seems impossible right now, I shall defer to the ears and judgment of forum members who have heard the two approaches. Muchas gracias.


That’s the thing that has me perplexed a little about the FA-10. It keeps coming up as a smooth and musical amp when being described. Like you, I love my details and I hope that doesn’t get lost in translation with this amp. After talking with the owner of Flux Labs, I was led down the path of the FA-10 instead of the FA-10 Pro as well. I’ll know soon enough. Come Friday, all my questions will be answered. My FA-10 will be in my hands.

I’m almost tempted to buy a A90 to compare it to because curiosity is getting the better of me. I like reading reviews but there’s nothing like hearing a product for yourself, with your gear, in your home for a proper assessment.


----------



## gancanjam

Wesley88 said:


> What's the difference in shipping options? What would be best for USA destination?



Regular shipping which may take 2-4 weeks for $100 and DHL(the best available) which will come in 1 week to a little over a week, i think it is $200 or more if i am not mistaken


----------



## cfranchi (Sep 14, 2020)

sahmen said:


> I am personally quite interested in how well the FA-10 does detail, especially detail at the top-end, but also in bass texture. I have been stricken by how often the FA-10 is placed on the side of "smooth" and "musical," as opposed to, say, the Topping A90, or even Flux Labs own FA-10 pro, which are placed in the "analytical," "dry," maybe "neutral" department, or in any case characterized as probably too revealing for their own good, for showing all the "pimples and warts" of badly recorded material.
> 
> Well, in theory, "smooth" and "musical" sound good to me, and the Flux Labs guy I chatted with at length on facebook "diagnosed" me, almost instantly, upon hearing about my DACs and other components of choice, as being an FA-10 as opposed to FA-10 Pro guy. What concerns me, though, is how much detail, if any, gets lost in all that "smoothness" and "musicality" the FA-10 fans have been talking about.  I do like detail, but without any harshness or fatigue, just like my HeKSE or Audeze LCD-4 cans handle detail and texture, but especially, without any feeling that some important dimension of detail has been sacrificed in some kind of roll-off in order to enhance that smoothness. I wish I could hear the FA-10 and the pro version or the Topping A90 in order to make a determination for myself, but since that seems impossible right now, I shall defer to the ears and judgment of forum members who have heard the two approaches. Muchas gracias.



Well you have to believe me but no details are lost with FA-10, on my setup I can really hear the most tiny details (obvious on live recordings). I guess that we are confused about analytical vs musical : from my point of view it is not about the loss of any details but it is more about how those details are blended (musical) or not (analytical) into the ´flow´ of the music.


----------



## driftingbunnies

While I thoroughly enjoy my FA-10, I don't believe it is end game or will replace all SS amps out there. I don't believe there is a loss in details but I do believe there is a difference between something higher end. When I compare it to something like the Feliks Euforia, there is a certain amount of finesse and effortlessness that is lost when using the FA-10. It is more evident with headphones that prefer tubes over SS. But as an SS amp, I'm very happy with it's capabilities. It produces plenty of power, does not sound fatiguing and allows me to enjoy both dynamic and planars in a package under 1k. 

One camp that I don't agree with is that too much detail or resolution means that you cannot enjoy your music or that it's dry and too analytical. I believe if your setup is done well, you can have a highly resolving setup while being able to groove to even some poorly recorded music. Generally I stick to better recorded music though.


----------



## jaredn13

gancanjam said:


> Regular shipping which may take 2-4 weeks for $100 and DHL(the best available) which will come in 1 week to a little over a week, i think it is $200 or more if i am not mistaken



I did DHL for $250 shipped to Los Angeles and it took 7 days to get here.


----------



## gancanjam (Sep 15, 2020)

sahmen said:


> I am personally quite interested in how well the FA-10 does detail, especially detail at the top-end, but also in bass texture. I have been stricken by how often the FA-10 is placed on the side of "smooth" and "musical," as opposed to, say, the Topping A90, or even Flux Labs own FA-10 pro, which are placed in the "analytical," "dry," maybe "neutral" department, or in any case characterized as probably too revealing for their own good, for showing all the "pimples and warts" of badly recorded material.
> 
> Well, in theory, "smooth" and "musical" sound good to me, and the Flux Labs guy I chatted with at length on facebook "diagnosed" me, almost instantly, upon hearing about my DACs and other components of choice, as being an FA-10 as opposed to FA-10 Pro guy. What concerns me, though, is how much detail, if any, gets lost in all that "smoothness" and "musicality" the FA-10 fans have been talking about.  I do like detail, but without any harshness or fatigue, just like my HeKSE or Audeze LCD-4 cans handle detail and texture, but especially, without any feeling that some important dimension of detail has been sacrificed in some kind of roll-off in order to enhance that smoothness. I wish I could hear the FA-10 and the pro version or the Topping A90 in order to make a determination for myself, but since that seems impossible right now, I shall defer to the ears and judgment of forum members who have heard the two approaches. Muchas gracias.



On your FA-10  questions related to "Smooth",  "Top details" and ability to handle Bad recording...  expanding "Smooth Highs" ,

#1 It does not roll off High frequencies to sound smooth  like some amps do but it has other ways to smooth the highs !
#2 Better DAC you feed in the better details you will get and FA-10 is capable of handling across the spectrum . I fed in Chord DACs like Hugo 2 and it sounded good with FA-10 boosting Bass, giving more body to mids and taming some harsh highs of Chord DAC
#3  FA-10 amp is not for appreciating Treble details to my ears ! Zooming in on Treble details even further, a guitar with steel strings pluck in Hi frequency will sound metallic like "Tttinggggggg" and a neutral analytical transparent amp will reproduce the same sound as metallic sound to screech the ears. How does the same metallic pluck sound in FA-10 ? if the same guitar steel strings replaced by a plastic /Tennis racket string for lack of better words  will not sound metallic at all and will sound like "Trriikkkkkkkk" so FA-10 sound somewhere in the middle between the above two plucks with that metallic sound tamed down to lose its leading/trailing sharp edges. I tried to be as explicit to convey this sound so that there is no ambiguity   FA-10 will not focus on Sparkles and Cymbals also. Sometimes Sparkles will be tamed to sound like an Hiss.
#4 When DAC presents the Treble & Instrument details then it is present without vanishing in the song so we cannot say FA-10 is losing details but like some of the Head Fiers hinted in the previous threads  ... is the Treble details coming forward to be the focus of the songs ? No,  if you want to find that Violin, guitar, cymbals, sparkles in a smooth way like what i had described above then you can find it in the song if you focus enough but it will not jump and startle you.

That kind of sums up what smooth treble means for FA-10 

I recently heard Monolith THX 887 AIO, I listened with Utopia and HD800, THX 887 may not be very competent or technically on par to pair with say Utopia but liked the presentation with Bass notes and smooth Highs ( here smooth means it will sound metallic in a nice way without the lower treble harshness, extended upper treble, airy and sparkly like an Hi Fidelity 1980s system which is not the core forte of FA-10 ) ever present in every song and the instruments present themselves amidst the Lows and Highs. It sounded very clean and dynamic with nice instrument separation. Still FA-10 is more competent amp compared to this in terms of Bass,  Mids, power  and the ability to upscale with better DACs.

For bad recordings,  i really liked the FA-10, it is audiophile quality as well as forgiving.


----------



## Benno1988

Bit lost with the 4 models they have.

I'm looking for a amp for the Final D8000 Pro.

I want something on the warmer side. Think Violectric V281. Audio GD etc

What model should I be looking at? I can run SE or Balanced. But if same price, Balanced wins.


----------



## NickT23

driftingbunnies said:


> While I thoroughly enjoy my FA-10, I don't believe it is end game or will replace all SS amps out there. I don't believe there is a loss in details but I do believe there is a difference between something higher end. When I compare it to something like the Feliks Euforia, there is a certain amount of finesse and effortlessness that is lost when using the FA-10. It is more evident with headphones that prefer tubes over SS. But as an SS amp, I'm very happy with it's capabilities. It produces plenty of power, does not sound fatiguing and allows me to enjoy both dynamic and planars in a package under 1k.
> 
> One camp that I don't agree with is that too much detail or resolution means that you cannot enjoy your music or that it's dry and too analytical. I believe if your setup is done well, you can have a highly resolving setup while being able to groove to even some poorly recorded music. Generally I stick to better recorded music though.


Nooo ! I wish FA-10 is end game of all so we dont have to sell our kidneys to afford more expensive BS..


----------



## omniweltall

driftingbunnies said:


> When I compare it to something like the Feliks Euforia, there is a certain amount of finesse and effortlessness that is lost when using the FA-10


That is common when comparing tube and SS amps.


----------



## gancanjam

Benno1988 said:


> Bit lost with the 4 models they have.
> 
> I'm looking for a amp for the Final D8000 Pro.
> 
> ...



Not most of us have listened to all the 4 models Flux lab have, most listened only to FA-10 which is towards warmer side and few to FA-12 so Head-Fiers cannot provide comparison of all 4 models yet. Following is the link to Flux FB page, you can chat with them and they do a good job in engagement and recommending you the model which will suit your preference

https://www.facebook.com/fluxlabacoustics/


----------



## tholt

Benno1988 said:


> Bit lost with the 4 models they have.
> 
> I'm looking for a amp for the Final D8000 Pro.
> 
> ...


The FCN-10 is just the FA-10 with a built in DAC. The FA-10 is on the warmer side, with plenty of power. The FA-10 Pro is supposedly more neutral. Have not heard the FA-12. 

Agreed with above ^ -- contact Flux. They are good at customer support.


----------



## Slim1970

Early gift arrived today. I'm going right to the hardest headphones to drive that I own, the Susvara's. Initial impressions are I made the right decision in picking up this amp and pairing it with the RME. Bass is fast and punchy, dynamics and details are there in spades. I don't hear lack of treble clarity at all. I'm on high gain with the volume wheel in the sweet spot around 1:30 - 2 o'clock on the dial and it's plenty loud and musical.


----------



## jaredn13

Burning mine in now. Also changed out the knob...


----------



## omniweltall

jaredn13 said:


> Burning mine in now. Also changed out the knob...


The black knob certainly looks better


----------



## funkur

jaredn13 said:


> Burning mine in now. Also changed out the knob..



Looks great!  Did the knob come from Flux or elsewhere?


----------



## jaredn13 (Sep 15, 2020)

funkur said:


> Looks great!  Did the knob come from Flux or elsewhere?



Just something cheap I got from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TY32628


----------



## Slim1970 (Sep 16, 2020)

Early impression on the RME and FA-10 pairing is that it's outstanding. That is with the FA-10 right out of the box. The dynamics are superb, bass is deep and hits hard, midrange is full, clean and balanced, treble in my opinion is beautifully implemented. To me, the treble isn't lacking any clarity at all. The details, extension and air are all there. The treble implementation as far as I can tell allows you freedom of the volume wheel.

The FA-10 has no problem driving the Susvara's. It's the best dedicated solid state headphone amp I've heard with them. The FA-10 is so dang musical, I love this amp! Burning in now with some pink noise. More impressions to come....


----------



## omniweltall

jaredn13 said:


> Just something cheap I got from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TY32628


Looks like it has enhanced grip too. Real nice.


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I'm on high gain with the volume wheel in the sweet spot around 1:30 - 2 o'clock on the dial and it's plenty loud and musical.



Exactly same settings with my HE6se, let FA-10 to burn a bit after power ON (around 30min), sound will be even more refined.


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Exactly same settings with my HE6se, let FA-10 to burn a bit after power ON (around 30min), sound will be even more refined.


What's crazy is after 2 o'clock there is another level of volume. There's no distortion just good clean sound. This is where the treble tuning comes into play. There's only a couple of headphones that I know of that will ultilize a good chunk of the FA-10's power: The HE-6/6se and the Susvara's. Not even the Abyss Phi TC's need to go that high on the volume dial. Speaking of the TC's, I'll be giving them a proper go on the FA-10 next. The Susvara's and the FA-10 combo is a flat out winner.


----------



## manishex

Z reviews the Fa-10
I don't like his reviews but for now something is better than nothing


----------



## omniweltall

manishex said:


> Z reviews the Fa-10
> I don't like his reviews but for now something is better than nothing



I don't mind listening to his ramblings even though no added value on sound perspective. He does give good overviews on the amp though, from a normal consumer point of view, not really audiophile.


----------



## sahmen

Anyone ever used the FA-10 with an Audeze LCD-4? Please share your impressions if you have. This unit clocks almost a perfect score in driving the Susvara, according to reviews I've read. I would like to know what it does for the 200 Ohm LCD-4 too.


----------



## NickT23

Slim1970 said:


> Early gift arrived today. I'm going right to the hardest headphones to drive that I own, the Susvara's. Initial impressions are I made the right decision in picking up this amp and pairing it with the RME. Bass is fast and punchy, dynamics and details are there in spades. I don't hear lack of treble clarity at all. I'm on high gain with the volume wheel in the sweet spot around 1:30 - 2 o'clock on the dial and it's plenty loud and musical.
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE how do you afford the Susvara ?


----------



## NickT23

omniweltall said:


> I don't mind listening to his ramblings even though no added value on sound perspective. He does give good overviews on the amp though, from a normal consumer point of view, not really audiophile.


None of it are audiophile and mostly nonsense. Mostly cater to the mass audience.


----------



## rmsanger

omniweltall said:


> I don't mind listening to his ramblings even though no added value on sound perspective. He does give good overviews on the amp though, from a normal consumer point of view, not really audiophile.





NickT23 said:


> None of it are audiophile and mostly nonsense. Mostly cater to the mass audience.



I'm a fan of his... Not from a perspective of where I expect to receive massive amounts of information or a comprehensive review but from the perspective where he discusses a topic that I'm interested in and adds a flavor of humor to what could be a very dry topic.   His primary audience is mostly entry level and perhaps midfi people and not audiophiles per say.  In my opinion what he does a good job at is introducing people that are new to audio to a community that might be exclusionary if not perhaps elitist in nature.  He embraces a demographic that is looking for their first $250 headphones $100 Dac and $150 Amp while making their journey a bit entertaining.

So now he's taking those people to the next level of buying a $500 headphone $300 Dac and $750 Flux Amp which is good for us all.  The more people he can bring into the fold helps all of us as there will be more 2nd hand units and R&D funds future rev's.

While Darko and Gutt are futzing with $5k Dacs, $15k amps, and $20k speakers.


----------



## Slim1970

@NickT23 I’ve had my Susvara’s for almost two years. I sold my LCD-4’s and HEK V2’s that I had at that time to get them. They sound sublime with the FA-10.


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> I'm a fan of his... Not from a perspective of where I expect to receive massive amounts of information or a comprehensive review but from the perspective where he discusses a topic that I'm interested in and adds a flavor of humor to what could be a very dry topic.   His primary audience is mostly entry level and perhaps midfi people and not audiophiles per say.  In my opinion what he does a good job at is introducing people that are new to audio to a community that might be exclusionary if not perhaps elitist in nature.  He embraces a demographic that is looking for their first $250 headphones $100 Dac and $150 Amp while making their journey a bit entertaining.
> 
> So now he's taking those people to the next level of buying a $500 headphone $300 Dac and $750 Flux Amp which is good for us all.  The more people he can bring into the fold helps all of us as there will be more 2nd hand units and R&D funds future rev's.
> 
> While Darko and Gutt are futzing with $5k Dacs, $15k amps, and $20k speakers.


Yeah that make sense from your perspective. I mean, ya of course, in terms of rambling BS for entertainment, then yes, somewhat a fan. Probably one of the worst reviewers IMO, overrated. As for Darko and Gutt, typical hype train and sponsored video regardless is true of not. Am not going to go to snake oil topic. And yes, Darko and others caters to rich people I guess.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Anyone ever used the FA-10 with an Audeze LCD-4? Please share your impressions if you have. This unit clocks almost a perfect score in driving the Susvara, according to reviews I've read. I would like to know what it does for the 200 Ohm LCD-4 too.


Wish I still had my LCD-4's to help you out. I do have the LCD-4z's and the grip, control the FA-10 has on the drivers is incredible. I'm using low gain with the 4z's, I don't think the FA-10 will have a problem driving the LCD-4. 

The FA-10 to my ears is as universal of an amp you can get when it comes getting most out of your headphones. The price of this amp, makes it a steal in my opinion. The FA-10 has the right amount of technical abilities, control, musicality, transparency, and resolve that makes it the most competitive amp I know of. You're going to spend crazy money to get better performance than what the FA-10 has to offer. Hook up a competent DAC and let the FA-10 handle the amplification duties and you're all set. Sit back and enjoy your music....


----------



## driftingbunnies

Slim1970 said:


> Wish I still had my LCD-4's to help you out. I do have the LCD-4z's and the grip, control the FA-10 has on the drivers is incredible. I'm using low gain with the 4z's, I don't think the FA-10 will have a problem driving the LCD-4.
> 
> The FA-10 to my ears is as universal of an amp you can get when it comes getting most out of your headphones. The price of this amp, makes it a steal in my opinion. The FA-10 has the right amount of technical abilities, control, musicality, transparency, and resolve that makes it the most competitive amp I know of. You're going to spend crazy money to get better performance than what the FA-10 has to offer. Hook up a competent DAC and let the FA-10 handle the amplification duties and you're all set. Sit back and enjoy your music....




How would you say the FA-10 compares to the amp section of the TT2 or even the Liquid platinum?


----------



## teknorob23

gancanjam said:


> Not most of us have listened to all the 4 models Flux lab have, most listened only to FA-10 which is towards warmer side and few to FA-12 so Head-Fiers cannot provide comparison of all 4 models yet. Following is the link to Flux FB page, you can chat with them and they do a good job in engagement and recommending you the model which will suit your preference
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/fluxlabacoustics/



Sorry guys, i've been rubbish at getting my thoughts together comparing fcn10 and Fa12. Life has really been getting in the way of the important stuff! I think i have the measure of them, along now with A90 for context too and i will try to get something up for the weekend.

@gancanjam is right, give flux a shout, give them as much detail as you can about your partnering kit and listening preferences. From my experience their advice is pretty unbiased and pretty spot on


----------



## teknorob23

driftingbunnies said:


> How would you say the FA-10 compares to the amp section of the TT2 or even the Liquid platinum?



I had weekend or running both the 12 and 10 out the TT2. The amp stage in TT2 is drier but its also very smooth and natural. The timbre is a little thinner than the 10 and even more so than the Fa12. The 10 has more grip and weight than the TT2, but only by a small margin. What impressed me the most was how well both FA amps communicated the beautiful layering and exceptional resolving powers of the TT2. Both amps add their own flavour with 12 thickening up the mids and low end. The 10 does this too but what it really adds is weight and slam. The scaling abilities of these two amps is seriously impressive.


----------



## Slim1970

driftingbunnies said:


> How would you say the FA-10 compares to the amp section of the TT2 or even the Liquid platinum?


I was talking to another head-fi member about the Liquid Platinum comparisons. I'll just quote what I told him:

"So far, the tone and musical presentation of the FA-10 and LP are pretty close. They are right there with each other as the best I've heard the Susvara's sound. I like the slightly warm and musical tone of the FA-10 more so than any other solid state amp I've heard. The FA-10 adds body and texture to the music similar to best tubes I have on the LP". 

It high praise for the FA-10 and the way it delivers music. My modded LP jumped right pass the Burson Conductor 3XR before I sold it as my favorite amp. Put the right tubes on the LP and be prepared engulfed in sound. What surprised me is how tube like the FA-10 sounds. The digs deep and is taunt, the midrange is meaty, and treble is really clean and clear. Notes has weight and guitars have grunt on the FA-10. There is nothing thin sounding about the FA-10. It's an amazing amp. The only thing I would say that it's lacking as far as the best tubes I heard on the LP is a 3D soundstage. Put a set of 7730 tubes in the LP and you get sound coming from everywhere. The FA-10 has an wide soundstage and good depth, but can't match the magic of tubes in that department. 

How the amp section of the FA-10 compares to the amp section of the TT2 is noteworthy to say the least. I'm a torn because listening to it after listening to the FA-10/RME combo you do lose some things soundwise. For one, you lose some bass impact and quantity. The bass quality is still there. You do gain a more insightful sound with the TT2. I attribute this to the resolving abilities of the DAC, which we all know is outstanding. Going from the FA-10 to the TT2 you trade a weighty, meaty sound for a more transparent, resolving, airy, incisive sound when listening to music directly out of the TT2. It's still very good, but I'll take the amp section of the FA-10 over the amp section of the TT2 for my musical preferences. I'll give up some of the sound qualities of the TT2 for the more musical sound of the FA-10. 

What's next is hook up the TT2 as DAC to the FA-10 to get the best of both worlds. The TT2 as a DAC only is ridiculously good. I'm holding off on trying this because I like the feature set of the RME. The FA-10/RME combo delivers a unique listening experience that I'm not ready to give up just yet.


----------



## omniweltall

rmsanger said:


> I'm a fan of his... Not from a perspective of where I expect to receive massive amounts of information or a comprehensive review but from the perspective where he discusses a topic that I'm interested in and adds a flavor of humor to what could be a very dry topic.   His primary audience is mostly entry level and perhaps midfi people and not audiophiles per say.  In my opinion what he does a good job at is introducing people that are new to audio to a community that might be exclusionary if not perhaps elitist in nature.  He embraces a demographic that is looking for their first $250 headphones $100 Dac and $150 Amp while making their journey a bit entertaining.
> 
> So now he's taking those people to the next level of buying a $500 headphone $300 Dac and $750 Flux Amp which is good for us all.  The more people he can bring into the fold helps all of us as there will be more 2nd hand units and R&D funds future rev's.
> 
> While Darko and Gutt are futzing with $5k Dacs, $15k amps, and $20k speakers.


Agreed. I never complained much about Zeos, cause he gives me good perspective of a normal non-audiophile consumer. Many times, audio is talking about minuscule differences that normal people wouldn't bother. 

Another thing I like about him is that his favorite can is HD600, just like me.


----------



## Roasty

For the Susvara/TC Phi, which is the way to go? 10 or 10pro?


----------



## teknorob23

Roasty said:


> For the Susvara/TC Phi, which is the way to go? 10 or 10pro?



No one hear has head the pro, but having spoken to FLA at length, it really is aimed at a pro audience who want a completely flat presentation. The 10 is darn accurate anyway with gobs of power and just a hint of warmth which gives the whole presentation more body. I suspect based on what ive been told the Pro wont have the same dynamics either.


----------



## Roasty

teknorob23 said:


> No one hear has head the pro, but having spoken to FLA at length, it really is aimed at a pro audience who want a completely flat presentation. The 10 is darn accurate anyway with gobs of power and just a hint of warmth which gives the whole presentation more body. I suspect based on what ive been told the Pro wont have the same dynamics either.



Thanks very much. I think I may give the 10 a try.


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## teknorob23 (Sep 17, 2020)

Zee’s review of the FA-10


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## Roasty

Oh just chatted with Flux on fb messenger.. And they mentioned it might be worthwhile to wait a bit for the Volot.


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## driftingbunnies

Roasty said:


> Oh just chatted with Flux on fb messenger.. And they mentioned it might be worthwhile to wait a bit for the Volot.



Did they say how much it'll be? I tried going through some of the older FB posts and it looks like it was teased last year for $4k(?).


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## NickT23

Roasty said:


> Oh just chatted with Flux on fb messenger.. And they mentioned it might be worthwhile to wait a bit for the Volot.


Yes, I thought that too. But the Volot will cost a kidney. Also, I already know this news since they launched the FA-10. But the Volot is not confirmed for release at that time. Really looking forward. Am also interested whether how much improvement from the Volot compare to FA-10.


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## NickT23

Roasty said:


> For the Susvara/TC Phi, which is the way to go? 10 or 10pro?


FA-10


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## teknorob23

As far as i'm aware the Volot may see the light of day in about 4-6 weeks time, price-wise its probably going to be around $2,500-3,000 and its an amplifier only. Thats all i know so far


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## rmsanger

teknorob23 said:


> As far as i'm aware the Volot may see the light of day in about 4-6 weeks time, price-wise its probably going to be around $2,500-3,000 and its an amplifier only. Thats all i know so far



This is the communication I received on August 7th:



> About VOLOT project, it on the final lap of engineering, and might be presented in one month or so. That is another level of technical implementation of high power headphones amplifier, which consists of many strong points what were discussed at head-fi thread talking about FA-10. VOLOT expected price is about 2.5-2.6k USD, not deal about that yet


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## gancanjam

Roasty said:


> For the Susvara/TC Phi, which is the way to go? 10 or 10pro?



Unlike common notion some have ,not all Flux amps are powerful like FA-10 to drive Susvara/Abyss TC Phi. So when you are zeroing on the sound signature of your liking please keep an eye out on the output power as well.  I had listened only to FA-10 & Abyss TC Phi, good pairing IMO !


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> As far as i'm aware the Volot may see the light of day in about 4-6 weeks time, price-wise its probably going to be around $2,500-3,000 and its an amplifier only. Thats all i know so far


Why so expensive ? They are not known for expensive crap


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## m-i-c-k-e-y (Sep 17, 2020)

Its dual mono all the way: picture

Their TOTL DAC/Headamp/Preamp/Streamer: Atlas costs around $5K.

Was considering it if not for its size...too big for my desktop.


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## rmsanger

I'm holding out for the Volot reviews... $2.5k is my top of budget and likely would pair better with my 1266 Phi TC.   I'd prefer to spend the $750 on a FA-10 if it's "passable" and use the rest toward a Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE / Lampizator Amber 3 Dac.   But the Volot internals look impressive like Nimbus US4+ impressive.


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## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> I'm holding out for the Volot reviews... $2.5k is my top of budget and likely would pair better with my 1266 Phi TC.   I'd prefer to spend the $750 on a FA-10 if it's "passable" and use the rest toward a Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE / Lampizator Amber 3 Dac.   But the Volot internals look impressive like Nimbus US4+ impressive.


Where do you get the money to afford it ?


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## driftingbunnies

NickT23 said:


> Where do you get the money to afford it ?



There's a money tree in his backyard.


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## NickT23

driftingbunnies said:


> There's a money tree in his backyard.


I mean general and common sense speaking. Could be his savings or he sell his car.


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## teknorob23

rmsanger said:


> I'm holding out for the Volot reviews... $2.5k is my top of budget and likely would pair better with my 1266 Phi TC.   I'd prefer to spend the $750 on a FA-10 if it's "passable" and use the rest toward a Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE / Lampizator Amber 3 Dac.   But the Volot internals look impressive like Nimbus US4+ impressive.



I've not heard the nimbus, but i've listened to lots of amp edging towards and beyond it's price range, like the benchmark HPA4 which had for about 6 months and at the time thought was the best ss amp i've ever heard. Now i'm obvs not comparing back to back, but 10 is was better than passable, yes its a different class A flavour but i reckon it would hang on to the Benchmark in terms of technicalities, just while out doing it in shear musicality. That said i'll be shocked if the Volot isnt amazing too, but if it meant compromising on the DAC front i would choose the 10 in heartbeat without any worries it couldnt keep up with a great DAC. My experience running it with the TT2 has shown me that it can keep on scaling (IMO the lampi would be a clear winner for me out of those two )

I've had a bit of revelatory night back with the Fa12, one thats really highlighted to me that neither of these amps is better than the other, but surprise surprise they just work better with different HPs. Not a revelation to most of you i'm sure.

I recently picked a up a pair Mr Speaker Ether C Flow planner CB's ex-demo from a friend at hifi shop. I'd overlooked these along with my current hd820's while i was caught up in the CB arms race and being totally enthralled by the ZMF VCs and Stellias. The Ether C Flows are one of the few planner closed backs i've warmed to, apart from slightly lethargic sub bass, they have great dynamics, are very resolving and have lovely cohesive presentation (probably edge the 820s here). They are a little darker, lack the hd820s snap and airy staging, but there's something very addictive.

Anyway i initially thought the 10's dynamics and pace having the slight edge over the 12, would be the best match and they did sound good together, but plugging them back into the FA12 tonight has been a bit of revelation

Listening to Rival Consoles/ Articulation on the 12, has been like finding a hidden level on video game, suddenly the Ether C’s bass has become defined like never before, layering and texture are something else completely. I cant think of any amp/ HP pairing i've made before where one has had such dramatic impact on the performance than the other, except maybe when the stellias met the EL39/EL11 tube combo on the FA Euforia. They really do sound like a different headphone and it doesnt stop with the bass, the lush mids of the 12 have really helped bring Ether C's mid's alive, moving them forward in the mix, again, texture, layering are improved but its also the tone which is slightly lightened, non of which i expected. The trend continues into the treble, where clarity and extension are improved.... really is case of turning the lights on and i'm now listening to Daniel Avery/ Alessandro Cortini's recent collaboration/ iIlusion of time, which is one of my favourite albums of this year and one that really exposes a headphones layering capabilities. Cortini likes to work in some of the barely audible out reaches of the frequency ranges, piling layer upon layer, and with the Ether C Flow/FA12 its never sounded more intoxicating.

I was beginning to mourn the soon to be departed FCN10, but fear of our imminent separation while not completely gone has definitely eased significantly with tonights discovery... and i havent even had a glass of wine


----------



## Wesley88

FA-12 ordered thanks to this thread. Can't wait!


----------



## teknorob23

Wesley88 said:


> FA-12 ordered thanks to this thread. Can't wait!



Congrats, hope the wait isnt too long and looking forward to hearing what you think of it


----------



## sahmen

It seems to me that the Volot, with its balanced topology, is going to sound better (i.e. at least more technically accomplished in the sq department) than the FA-10. I've been trying to convince myself that balanced vs SE internal topologies might not amount to any difference, sq-wise, but who am I kidding, right? Besides, something tells me that these Flux Labs guys would consider the Volot to be a bust if it were to come out sounding exactly the same as the FA-10.

Anyway have the specs of the upcoming Volot been published anywhere?


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> Unlike common notion some have ,not all Flux amps are powerful like FA-10 to drive Susvara/Abyss TC Phi. So when you are zeroing on the sound signature of your liking please keep an eye out on the output power as well.  I had listened only to FA-10 & Abyss TC Phi, good pairing IMO !


I concur, I'm listening to the Abyss Phi TC's now with the FA-10. The pairing is phenomenal in IMO. The extra power of the FA-10 is needed with both the Susvara's and TC's. Luckily, the FA-10 lacks nothing musically at any volume level.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> It seems to me that the Volot, with its balanced topology, is going to sound better (i.e. at least more technically accomplished in the sq department) than the FA-10. I've been trying to convince myself that balanced vs SE internal topologies might not amount to any difference, sq-wise, but who am I kidding, right? Besides, something tells me that these Flux Labs guys would consider the Volot to be a bust if it were to come out sounding exactly the same as the FA-10.
> 
> Anyway have the specs of the upcoming Volot been published anywhere?


The Volot is going to a hit I believe. The Flux Labs sound signature is addictive and musical. Having the FA-10's power in a balanced configuration sound intriguing. The FA-10 alone is a excellent segway to Volot since no one knows when it will be released. Plus, it more than affordable and available now


----------



## Wesley88 (Sep 17, 2020)

Wait isn't that the FA-10 PRO that Zeos reviewed? I think he thinks he reviewed the regular FA-10.


----------



## Roasty

Tried searching this thread.. Couldn't find any comparisons to the gsx mini. Or did I miss it? Anyone able to comment?


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> I concur, I'm listening to the Abyss Phi TC's now with the FA-10. The pairing is phenomenal in IMO. The extra power of the FA-10 is needed with both the Susvara's and TC's. Luckily, the FA-10 lacks nothing musically at any volume level.



Will you be considering the Volot as well?  You certainly have the HPs that will take advantage of the improvement gains to SQ it should offer.   Or do you feel the FA-10 is good enough to make them "end game"?   I have my eyes on the Volot, HeadAmp GSX Mini, Burson Conductor 3XR, Violectric V281, Cayin IHA-6, and the Ifi iCan Pro aloing with the FA-10.


----------



## Slim1970

Wesley88 said:


> Wait isn't that the FA-10 PRO that Zeos reviewed? I think he thinks he reviewed the regular FA-10.



No, my FA-10 has the red PCB boards as well


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> Will you be considering the Volot as well?  You certainly have the HPs that will take advantage of the improvement gains to SQ it should offer.   Or do you feel the FA-10 is good enough to make them "end game"?   I have my eyes on the Volot, HeadAmp GSX Mini, Burson Conductor 3XR, Violectric V281, Cayin IHA-6, and the Ifi iCan Pro aloing with the FA-10.


I'm more than happy with the FA-10 and it very well could be my end game amp. The FA-10's tuning is exactly what I've been looking in a solid state amp. I can tell you from having owned the Pro iCan and Burson Conductor 3XR that the FA-10, to my ears, best them is sound quality. It has better bass, it's more dynamic, notes have more weight, the midrange is more engaging and treble detail is top notch. What those other two have over the FA-10 is they are more transparency.

When it came to choosing an amp I didn't need transparency. The upper tier headphones in my collection are already highly resolving, airy and transparent. What they are missing is musicality. That is what I was missing with the Pro iCan and 3XR. This is what the FA-10 brings to the table along with power, punchy bass with slam, a nice meaty midrange, and a carefully tuned treble. If the Volot can build on these attributes then I might be interested.


----------



## teknorob23

sahmen said:


> It seems to me that the Volot, with its balanced topology, is going to sound better (i.e. at least more technically accomplished in the sq department) than the FA-10. I've been trying to convince myself that balanced vs SE internal topologies might not amount to any difference, sq-wise, but who am I kidding, right? Besides, something tells me that these Flux Labs guys would consider the Volot to be a bust if it were to come out sounding exactly the same as the FA-10.
> 
> Anyway have the specs of the upcoming Volot been published anywhere?



Agreed, the FA amp's compete with amps up to £2k which is astonishing in itself, all which makes one hope they keep the valueerformance ratio in the same ball park with Velot. That said diminishing returns cant help but be at play, show a range of even the best hifi manufacturer where they are not!


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> I'm more than happy with the FA-10 and it very well could be my end game amp. The FA-10's tuning is exactly what I've been looking in a solid state amp. I can tell you from having owned the Pro iCan and Burson Conductor 3XR that the FA-10, to my ears, best them is sound quality. It has better bass, it's more dynamic, notes have more weight, the midrange is more engaging and treble detail is top notch. What those other two have over the FA-10 is they are more transparency.
> 
> When it came to choosing an amp I didn't need transparency. The upper tier headphones in my collection are already highly resolving, airy and transparent. What they are missing is musicality. That is what I was missing with the Pro iCan and 3XR. This is what the FA-10 brings to the table along with power, punchy bass with slam, a nice meaty midrange, and a carefully tuned treble. If the Volot can build on these attributes then I might be interested.



which between the pro ican and Burson 3XR did you prefer for the 1266/Susvara?  

Do you think for the Volot it would be fair to expect that it would have the musicality of the FA-10 and the resolution, air, and transparency from the other two?  So maybe the best of both worlds..


----------



## sahmen

I was just talking to the Flux Lab guy on Facebook, and he says the VOLOT will sound better, but at a higher price point, none of which is really surprising, at least to me.  It is what one would normally expect in this hobby, but of course the taste of the pudding is in the eating, so one would have to wait and hear it, in order to find out how much better it performs, for the price.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> I was just talking to the Flux Lab guy on Facebook, and he says the VOLOT will sound better, but at a higher price point, none of which is really surprising, at least to me.  It is what one would normally expect in this hobby, but of course the taste of the pudding is in the eating, so one would have to wait and hear it, in order to find out how much better it performs, for the price.


I expected that, but how much higher I wonder. The Volot also looks a lot bigger. The FA-10 is surprisingly large.


----------



## funkur (Sep 19, 2020)

Has anyone tried upgrading the fuse in the FA-10?  I received and installed the SR orange last night (and blues for my other gear). So far, pretty impressive, but I’ll give it a few weeks and swap back to stock to confirm.

The stock fuse is a glass 2A fast 20x5.


----------



## sahmen

funkur said:


> Has anyone tried upgrading the fuse in the FA-10?  I received and installed the SR orange last night (and blues for my other gear). So far, pretty impressive, but I’ll give it a few weeks and swap back to stock to confirm.
> 
> The stock fuse is a glass 2A fast 20x5.


What type of differences have the SR orange brought to the table, if I might ask, or is it too soon to tell for sure?


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> I expected that, but how much higher I wonder. The Volot also looks a lot bigger. The FA-10 is surprisingly large.



Your reference to the size of the FA-10 is interesting.  Whatever I am getting next will replace a Liquid Platinum in a nearfield rig which is located in a very restricted spacial enclosure. If I want to get anything that is substantially larger than the Liquid Platinum, I would have to rethink the entire spatial configuration of the rig. Somehow, I tend to forget to take that into account when considering head-amp acquisitions.


----------



## funkur

sahmen said:


> What type of differences have the SR orange brought to the table, if I might ask, or is it too soon to tell for sure?


It's definitely too soon to tell - especially because the fuse just blew after a cable swap!  Google tells me this is a common issue actually, many folks have to go for a higher Amp rating than stock due to SR fuses blowing at power up.
But after popping the stock fuse back in, the thing I noticed most was the blacker background the SR added.  Which is surprising, as I felt the FA-10 was pretty silent as is.  The replacement will be here in about a week and I'll post further impressions after that one properly burns in.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Your reference to the size of the FA-10 is interesting.  Whatever I am getting next will replace a Liquid Platinum in a nearfield rig which is located in a very restricted spacial enclosure. If I want to get anything that is substantially larger than the Liquid Platinum, I would have to rethink the entire spatial configuration of the rig. Somehow, I tend to forget to take that into account when considering head-amp acquisitions.


I had to make some concessions to fit the FA-10 on my desktop. I didn’t think it would be as big as it is. The Volot from the initial pics seems to be in a similar sized housing as the Atlas. It’s another 5 inches wider and 7 inches deeper than the FA-10. I’m hoping Flux Labs is working on a smaller housing for the Volot. Otherwise, if I decide to upgrade I don’t know where I would put it.


----------



## jaker782

Slim1970 said:


> I had to make some concessions to fit the FA-10 on my desktop. I didn’t think it would be as big as it is. The Volot from the initial pics seems to be in a similar sized housing as the Atlas. It’s another 5 inches wider and 7 inches deeper than the FA-10. I’m hoping Flux Labs is working on a smaller housing for the Volot. Otherwise, if I decide to upgrade I don’t know where I would put it.



What is the width and depth of the FA10 amp?  I see conflicting info online.  Thanks!


----------



## Slim1970

jaker782 said:


> What is the width and depth of the FA10 amp?  I see conflicting info online.  Thanks!


12.5" W x 12" D x 3"H is what I'm measuring


----------



## gancanjam (Sep 20, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> Early impression on the RME and FA-10 pairing is that it's outstanding. That is with the FA-10 right out of the box. The dynamics are superb, bass is deep and hits hard, midrange is full, clean and balanced, treble in my opinion is beautifully implemented. To me, the treble isn't lacking any clarity at all. The details, extension and air are all there. The treble implementation as far as I can tell allows you freedom of the volume wheel.
> 
> The FA-10 has no problem driving the Susvara's. It's the best dedicated solid state headphone amp I've heard with them. The FA-10 is so dang musical, I love this amp! Burning in now with some pink noise. More impressions to come....



The FCN-10 i.e. FA-10 with in built DAC adds more musicality but smooths the treble more against my liking with Utopia but while with Abyss treble sounds lively even after smoothing, with Chord DACs it adds more treble presence overall.  Have not tried it with RME DAC, going to try it someday and hoping it will have more treble presence and dynamics than the in built DAC of FCN-10.


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## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> The FCN-10 i.e. FA-10 with in built DAC adds more musicality but smooths the treble more against my liking with Utopia but while with Abyss treble sounds lively even after smoothing, with Chord DACs it adds more treble presence overall.  Have not tried it with RME DAC, going to try it someday and hoping it will have more treble presence and dynamics than the in built DAC of FCN-10.


To my ears the RME does just that. Even though the FCN-10 and the RME use the same AKM DAC chip the implementation I’m sure is quite different.


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## gancanjam (Sep 20, 2020)

Had a chance to compare FCN-10 / FA-10 with some of the DACs/Amplifiers discussed in this recent last week thread, here are some brief comparisons . Utopia is a neutral HP which mirrors the characteristics of the DAC & Amp so i used only that HP throughout the comparison

Cavalli Liquid Platinum Amp with stock tubes -  makes any song sound nice. FA-10 even being a solid state have Tube like characteristics so can relate with Liquid platinum to an extent. FA-10 is more aggressive,  better Sub bass , impactful mid bass, faster, more full sounding,  more sound stage. LP is composed, calmer, nice in offensive Highs, especially i liked it for before the bed night time listen  To conclude, FA-10 will give you that grand effect of a capable amp while LP will not floor you on the first listen but one need to listen for some time to make LP a keeper. FA-10 is an upgrade to LP IMO

ifi Can Pro - the owner of this amp will be happy as it does nothing wrong and does well in all departments. The Bass boost, 3D boost and amp type settings is nice addition but i only see a subtle change between these so it is not a revelation to me. It kind of sounds right to my ears and neutral-ish, in offensive but still reasonably dynamic, Lows/ Mids/ Highs all are present with no compromise in any FP, i would give 7 to 8 out of 10 in all departments but @rmsanger was asking earlier that if this is a TOTL amp, IMO it is not TOTL as, though it scored well in all departments it is not fair to pit this against >2 times expensive amps like Simaudio Moon Neo 430 which will clearly better it. To conclude,  ifi Can Pro is a safe Upper Mid Fi swiss army knife buy while FA-10 can impress you in some Pop, Rock, EDM, Electronica songs ( not all songs) with musicality and fun signature if you have made peace with the impression of FA-10 present in this thread

Chord TT2 as AIO - I was not impressed as AIO to my listening preference even though the DAC part is technically very competent to dig out details like you would squeeze every drop of lemon with a juicer  I compared TT2 head to head with FA-10 and with another full sounding Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO, to describe it in one sentence i have to borrow @Slim1970 bingo description which is my impression as well, _" Going from the FA-10 to the TT2 you trade a weighty, meaty sound for a more transparent, resolving, airy, incisive sound when listening to music directly out of the TT2 ".  _To me, TT2 sounded more thinner, noticeably lesser bass, analytical, harder to focus details all over the place, less coherent, bit brighter compared to FA-10 & Moon Neo 430 AIO so was not able to enjoy the songs with TT2. I may need to try TT2 DAC & FA-10 combo some day which should be a super hit. Chord Hugo 2 as AIO was able to drive Utopia well but also sounded similar like an younger sibling to TT2. If you are spending $6K on TT2 as AIO, i strongly recommend you to audition it before you buy. 50% Head Fiers like Chord sound while 50% like Fuller sound like FA-10 & Neo 430 so pick your poison of preference, everyone of us is different

Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO - I have never seen any DAC/Amp embarrassing FCN-10/FA-10 so far and have listened to quite a few of them but it does not mean no $5K DAC/Amp will outwit FCN-10. Enters Neo 430 ! If FA-10 is a well made  buttoned up formal shirt then Neo 430 is even better i.e. a Tuxedo and it sounds... in words, expensive, grand,  high end.  However it has some mixed reviews  in the forum, though many has sung accolades, there are few call Neo 430 as softer, overly smoother, less precise, slower, older DAC chip  and i respectfully disagree the generalization here as it all comes down to the the pairing, song recording  & listening preference. Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO DAC is musical and to compliment the amplifier is uber detailed solid state so that combo hit home runs in most departments. It is Detailed still musical, extended gobs of Treble details flying around still non offensive, that big Sub bass thud still controlled, can listen to both Sub bass as well as the faster Micro drum beats, Full sounding like being in a English pub, Instruments circling around your head to greet you when it is introduced, Highly resolving. Compared against FA-10, Neo 430 has more Sub bass presence with decay lingers around a mico second more trading off slightly with the FA-10s quicker mid bass slam/decay , both are full sounding but Neo 430 is grander, Neo 430 resolution/clarity is noticeably superior than FA-10, Dynamics/instruments/ guitar plucks/violins/everything else in Neo 430 are on the face with realistic feeling to give goose bump moments compared to FA-10 where some instruments can go to the background with smoother overlay e.g. a Guitar pluck sounds very realistic and crystal clear with Neo 430 without harshness compared to FA-10 paired with Utopia, Neo 430 treble feels like being on a discotheque with that Hi fidelity in offensive extended treble sound **njinchikk ..njinchikkk **  ,  both are great for EDM/Pop/Electronica with Neo 430 still having that clear edge to my ears compared to Flux but hey Neo 430 it is 5 times more expensive.  I liked Neo 430 better than same priced Luxman P750U as well.


----------



## tholt

gancanjam said:


> Had a chance to compare FCN-10 / FA-10 with some of the DACs/Amplifiers discussed in this recent last week thread, here are some brief comparisons . Utopia is a neutral HP which mirrors the characteristics of the DAC & Amp so i used only that HP throughout the comparison
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Platinum Amp with stock tubes -  makes any song sound nice. FA-10 even being a solid state have Tube like characteristics so can relate with Liquid platinum to an extent. FA-10 is more aggressive,  better Sub bass , impactful mid bass, faster, more full sounding,  more sound stage. LP is composed, calmer, nice in offensive Highs, especially i liked it for before the bed night time listen  To conclude, FA-10 will give you that grand effect of a capable amp while LP will not floor you on the first listen but one need to listen for some time to make LP a keeper. FA-10 is an upgrade to LP IMO
> 
> ...


Nice! It's great you had a chance to try different amps and DACs. It's invaluable to get perspective on any component, knowing what else is out there and how it compares. Are you still thinking of getting the 430?


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## gancanjam

tholt said:


> Nice! It's great you had a chance to try different amps and DACs. It's invaluable to get perspective on any component, knowing what else is out there and how it compares. Are you still thinking of getting the 430?



Hey that was my house setup, i finally bought Moon Neo 430 HAD and am very glad with that purchase! Chord Hugo 2 & LP were borrowed from other Head  Fier, TT2 i only auditioned at a store head to head with FA-10 & Neo 430 HAD.


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## tholt

gancanjam said:


> Hey that was my house setup, i finally bought Moon Neo 430 HAD and am very glad with that purchase! Chord Hugo 2 & LP were borrowed from other Head  Fier, TT2 i only auditioned at a store head to head with FA-10 & Neo 430 HAD.


Sweet! Congrats!


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## Relaxasaurus

gancanjam said:


> Had a chance to compare FCN-10 / FA-10 with some of the DACs/Amplifiers discussed in this recent last week thread, here are some brief comparisons . Utopia is a neutral HP which mirrors the characteristics of the DAC & Amp so i used only that HP throughout the comparison
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Platinum Amp with stock tubes -  makes any song sound nice. FA-10 even being a solid state have Tube like characteristics so can relate with Liquid platinum to an extent. FA-10 is more aggressive,  better Sub bass , impactful mid bass, faster, more full sounding,  more sound stage. LP is composed, calmer, nice in offensive Highs, especially i liked it for before the bed night time listen  To conclude, FA-10 will give you that grand effect of a capable amp while LP will not floor you on the first listen but one need to listen for some time to make LP a keeper. FA-10 is an upgrade to LP IMO
> 
> ...


Amazing write up, thank you! Which DAC were you using with the FA-10?


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## sahmen

gancanjam said:


> Had a chance to compare FCN-10 / FA-10 with some of the DACs/Amplifiers discussed in this recent last week thread, here are some brief comparisons . Utopia is a neutral HP which mirrors the characteristics of the DAC & Amp so i used only that HP throughout the comparison
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Platinum Amp with stock tubes -  makes any song sound nice. FA-10 even being a solid state have Tube like characteristics so can relate with Liquid platinum to an extent. FA-10 is more aggressive,  better Sub bass , impactful mid bass, faster, more full sounding,  more sound stage. LP is composed, calmer, nice in offensive Highs, especially i liked it for before the bed night time listen  To conclude, FA-10 will give you that grand effect of a capable amp while LP will not floor you on the first listen but one need to listen for some time to make LP a keeper. FA-10 is an upgrade to LP IMO
> 
> ...



So if the FA-10 is great for EDM/Pop/Electronics, which of these amps would be ideal for Jazz, Acoustic, and classical music, which are the genres that are  more up my alley (a lot of ECM music, for example)?  Among the amps you have listed, I only use the liquid platinum, which is excellent for my kind of music (paired with a Sonnet Digital Morpheus).  I also have a Yggy A2 paired with a Violectric V281, which resolve the kind of music I listen to very well.  

I have been interested in the FA-10 because I am about to get a Susvara, yet I do not know what to make of that now after reading your post given my musical preferences...  I am interested in great mid and subbass, but I also want my music to be detailed and well-resolved without losing musicality.  I need to hear the Volot and find out where it will place among the amps you have listed


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> Had a chance to compare FCN-10 / FA-10 with some of the DACs/Amplifiers discussed in this recent last week thread, here are some brief comparisons . Utopia is a neutral HP which mirrors the characteristics of the DAC & Amp so i used only that HP throughout the comparison
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Platinum Amp with stock tubes -  makes any song sound nice. FA-10 even being a solid state have Tube like characteristics so can relate with Liquid platinum to an extent. FA-10 is more aggressive,  better Sub bass , impactful mid bass, faster, more full sounding,  more sound stage. LP is composed, calmer, nice in offensive Highs, especially i liked it for before the bed night time listen  To conclude, FA-10 will give you that grand effect of a capable amp while LP will not floor you on the first listen but one need to listen for some time to make LP a keeper. FA-10 is an upgrade to LP IMO
> 
> ...


Great comparison review. What I'm hearing so far with the FA-10 is it is a fairly transparent amp. The reason I didn't go with the FCN-10 is because I knew the built-in DAC would limit the way it sounds. Attach a more technical DAC and the FA-10 rewards you. DId you hear improvements to the sound when you used the Hugo 2 as the DAC?


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## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> So if the FA-10 is great for EDM/Pop/Electronics, which of these amps would be ideal for Jazz, Acoustic, and classical music, which are the genres that are  more up my alley (a lot of ECM music, for example)?  Among the amps you have listed, I only use the liquid platinum, which is excellent for my kind of music (paired with a Sonnet Digital Morpheus).  I also have a Yggy A2 paired with a Violectric V281, which resolve the kind of music I listen to very well.
> 
> I have been interested in the FA-10 because I am about to get a Susvara, yet I do not know what to make of that now after reading your post given my musical preferences...  I am interested in great mid and subbass, but I also want my music to be detailed and well-resolved without losing musicality.  I need to hear the Volot and find out where it will place among the amps you have listed


The FA-10 adds emotion to those genres of music. I quite like the way it resolves instruments. You can clearly hear the plucking of the strings, the decay and reverb coming from wooden instruments. The full bodied sound of the FA-10 just makes listening to jazz, acoustic and classical at treat to my ears.


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## gancanjam

Relaxasaurus said:


> Amazing write up, thank you! Which DAC were you using with the FA-10?



I had used mostly the inbuilt Flux DAC of FCN-10 which has FA-10 as the Amp. Also used Chord Hugo 2, Qutest and Denafrips Ares2.


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## gancanjam (Sep 21, 2020)

sahmen said:


> So if the FA-10 is great for EDM/Pop/Electronics, which of these amps would be ideal for Jazz, Acoustic, and classical music, which are the genres that are  more up my alley (a lot of ECM music, for example)?  Among the amps you have listed, I only use the liquid platinum, which is excellent for my kind of music (paired with a Sonnet Digital Morpheus).  I also have a Yggy A2 paired with a Violectric V281, which resolve the kind of music I listen to very well.
> 
> I have been interested in the FA-10 because I am about to get a Susvara, yet I do not know what to make of that now after reading your post given my musical preferences...  I am interested in great mid and subbass, but I also want my music to be detailed and well-resolved without losing musicality.  I need to hear the Volot and find out where it will place among the amps you have listed



Not into Classical/Jazz genre so cannot comment much there, EDITed this, i just remember now that the Sax sounds good and have similarities to a Tube amp. FA-10 regardless of the DAC does very well with Mid bass and reasonably good with Sub bass as well and it is it's inherent characteristics. Yggy is a highly resolving DAC and much better in terms of resolution than the in built Flux DAC so you should be in good hands with FA-10.  FA-10 may be up your alley for your requirements with musicality. Not sure of the sound signature of Volot though, "better" does not mean it is something to one's liking so it will be a gamble for people who wait for Volot .Could see you do have V281 which should be warm and have a great Bass and details per your requirement, so what do you lack in V281 for which you want to get the  FA-10 ?


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## gancanjam (Sep 21, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> Great comparison review. What I'm hearing so far with the FA-10 is it is a fairly transparent amp. The reason I didn't go with the FCN-10 is because I knew the built-in DAC would limit the way it sounds. Attach a more technical DAC and the FA-10 rewards you. DId you hear improvements to the sound when you used the Hugo 2 as the DAC?



FA-10 have some inherent characteristics which is generic regardless of the DAC but to your point it also morphs to the DAC & HP to a good extent showcasing it's transparent characteristics. It does scale well with sources. Yes there were improvements when using Hugo 2, FA-10 was filling the short comings of Hugo 2 inherent characteristics to boost it's lean bass, make it more coherent/musical, add more body to the song. Similarly Hugo 2 compared to the in built Flux DAC provided bit more resolution,  gave more treble details and was lifting off some of that smooth layer due to the in built DAC. You were right about not going with the in built Flux DAC. Hugo 2 or In Built DAC, FA-10 always sounded full/meaty/bassy which is it's bread and butter i guess


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## Hooster

teknorob23 said:


> Me:
> _What is quiescent current and why is more of it good?_
> 
> Vitaliy (FLA):
> _"That means that the amplifier operates in a more linear mode, or we can say that it works in a deeper class A. This provides lower harmonic and intermodulation distortion. But the most important thing is that *it provides a more solid / monolithic sound. You will get a higher level of details also across the entire frequency range*"_



Reading this forum is like prospecting for gold. You get gravel, rocks and mud but sometimes you find a lovely gold nugget. The above is one of them, thanks for sharing, and thanks, Vitaliy.


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## Hooster

sahmen said:


> I've been trying to convince myself that balanced vs SE internal topologies might not amount to any difference, sq-wise, but who am I kidding, right?



This is a topic I have given some thought. In absolute terms balanced IS best. There is no denying it. On the other hand, $ for $ a convincing argument can be made for single ended. With balanced you have to double up on everything. You need what amounts to 2 single ended amplifiers.

Let's say you have $2000 to spend on an amplifier. You can have a single ended amp or balanced. If you spend the $2000 on a balanced amplifier you will have to accept components that are significantly cheaper and of lower quality than what you would get if you spend $2000 on a single ended amplifier because you need essentially 2 amplifiers instead of just 1. 

I do not have unlimited funds so I will always choose the best single ended amplifier for my budget.

Balanced components are great for professional use where there may be issues with long cable runs, noise and transients that occur when components are plugged in and out. None of these are a problem for domestic hi-fi.


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## sahmen

gancanjam said:


> Could see you do have V281 which should be warm and have a great Bass and details per your requirement, so what do you lack in V281 for which you want to get the  FA-10 ?



I'm interested in the FA-10 as a source of more muscular Class A power to drive the cr*p out of the Susvara... 











Never owned or even seen a Susvara before myself, but for some--no many--of the folks on the Susvara forum, almost no amp ever seems to be adequate for the task, including my v281.  If/when I get the Susvara, I would like to eliminate all those amp-related headaches once and for all; hence my interest in the FA-10.


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## gancanjam (Sep 21, 2020)

sahmen said:


> I'm interested in the FA-10 as a source of more muscular Class A power to drive the cr*p out of the Susvara...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Since you own V281 and LP, you can relate to  FA-10 sound and yes it can drive any HP which should include Susvara & Abyss well. Would also suggest you to check wit Flux  support on Volot characteristics to see if it is something you want to wait for. On your question on details, FA-10 does improves in details/resolution with the DACs used but there should be a reason for Volot's existence to be 4 times the price of FA-10, typically you pay for Resolution & a specific sound signature so i am just guessing that Volot may up level in terms of resolution compared to FA-10, how much up level is something no one knows yet. Just be wary of Flux support team descriptions (they throw a lot at you like clear, linear, percussion, punch, extended frequency spectrums etc. which is a hit or miss for me ) and ask them to describe it if you are in doubt   as sometimes the understanding may be bit different.  If you still go in FA-10 route, it may work out for you anyways.


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## rmsanger (Sep 21, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> Since you own V281 and LP, you can relate to  FA-10 sound and yes it can drive any HP which should include Susvara & Abyss well. Would also suggest you to check wit Flux  support on Volot characteristics to see if it is something you want to wait for. On your question on details, FA-10 does improves in details/resolution with the DACs used but there should be a reason for Volot's existence to be 4 times the price of FA-10, typically you pay for Resolution & a specific sound signature so i am just guessing that Volot may up level in terms of resolution compared to FA-10, how much up level is something no one knows yet. Just be wary of Flux support team descriptions (they throw a lot at you like clear, linear, percussion, punch, extended frequency spectrums etc. which is a hit or miss for me ) and ask them to describe it if you are in doubt   as sometimes the understanding may be bit different.  If you still go in FA-10 route, it may work out for you anyways.



Here is some feedback I received on the FA-10 on another site that I found helpful:



> Got to hear one of these things finally lol, just the regular fa-10, not the pro. Honestly pretty solid, had a pretty enjoyable tuning, was a bit warmer sweeter thicker but didn’t lean too far into it, it had pretty nice dynamics and also impressive impact, detail was solid, it was a wider sounding amp, not a ton of depth but still pretty nice.
> Honestly it’s a good middle ground for preformance to cost ish, where it’s an upgrade over the stuff in the 500 range, but not quite competing with the 1.5k ish mark stuff, but solid overall. I enjoyed most planar off of it, and it did pretty well with high ohm Beyers for fun (although with the Beyer’s I could use more refinement for my taste imo). Was pretty nice though, if you have a harder to drive headphone this thing powers most with ease, although I might say that with more easy to drive but amp picky headphones it might be a tad too sloppy for my tastes (like a clear or utopia for example)
> Dac wise I only got to try a few dacs (holo may kte, mytek manhatten, chord hugo tt 2 + mscaler, and also an ares ii and bf2), and it really paired well with most of them, although I preferred the may and actually the manhatten the most, did a pretty decent job at letting a fair amount of the dac shine through. The bf2 felt a bit too soft for my tastes with this amp, the hugo kinda tilted it more neutral which was still good sounding but honestly the tuning of the amp is one of the more valuable aspects it has so I would prefer to maintain or enhance that. The mytek ended up keeping the house sound of the flux while tightening it up a bit and giving an increase in definition. The may gave it a more spacious stage and a bit more depth which was nice, but ended up actually taking a tad of meat off the bone sound wise in comparison, although still really nice. The ares ii was a good match, did it justice but that being said I did find it to get a bit too colored in nos mode for my tastes with this amp so I actually kept it on os
> The main headphones I ended up trying were the 1266, susvara, he6, utopia, aeon 2c, t1.2, kennerton horn (can’t spell it), lcd 24 and 3pf, and adx5k.
> ...



My response



> Thanks for this quite extensive overview!  I trust your takes and dang I guess I was hoping for a slightly more positive review from you. I was hoping the 1265 and Susvara would be viewed more favorably especially with all that power.   Would you say the musicality and dynamics are strong with these two and it’s just transparency that’s missing?



Response


> That prob did seem a bit negative lol, to be clear I do think the amp is a good value and is pretty worthwhile depending on the headphones that might be had, but it’s no giant killer imo (things rarely are lol)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## gancanjam

rmsanger said:


> Here is some feedback I received on the FA-10 on another site that I found helpful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is a nice thought through impression and felt good to read through, some of my comments

_more easy to drive but amp picky headphones it might be a tad too sloppy for my tastes (like a clear or utopia for example)_ - My experience is same , as FA-10 does a better job with HPs like Abyss & HE1000 compared to Utopia

_ but not quite competing with the 1.5k ish mark stuff -_ It depends on which amp it is compared against, i have not listened to every amp but to me it stands ground as a side grade with some of the amps i have heard in that higher price point but agree that FA-10 is not the be all - end all amp. As stated, the pricier Neo 430 is clearly an upgrade to FA-10 while ifi Can Pro or Rogue audio RP5 is a side grade to my ears with me still leaning towards FA-10

_The bf2 felt a bit too soft for my tastes with this amp, the hugo kinda tilted it more neutral - _Same experience i have as with Hugo pairing it felt neutral to me while Hugo as AIO felt brighter without FA-10, with in built DAC the Highs are softer to me especially with Utopia 

_it just doesn’t have the finesse and control, detail, spatial recreation, resolution, dynamics, black background, organicness that the 1266 and susvara also command. - _While DACs can improve detail/resolution i do agree here that there is a scope to improve detail/resolution which an Higher tier amp can offer but with Abyss 1266 it was more than adequate to me with FA-10, remember this is a musical amp and does not try hard to be a detail accuracy monster which Flux support Vitaly himself told me once so he is right in pointing it out

_Regarding both the susvara and 1266, these did sound good and enjoyable on the flux, but I would highly recommend you go much higher amp wise to actually get what these headphones can offer - _ Please do check which Higher end amplifiers he was referring to for driving Susvaras and Abyss 1266, the list cannot be long  as they are tough to drive, i had a friend who sold $2K + Phonitors & Ampsound as it could not drive Abyss well and i myself was not happy to listen to say, $2.5K WA 22 amp which was struggling to get a head room, so the list of recommended amps will help all of us


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## Wesley88 (Sep 21, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> _but not quite competing with the 1.5k ish mark stuff -_ It depends on which amp it is compared against



"v280/gsx mini/taurus mkii/etc level"

That's what they were comparing to at 1.5k.


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## artist777

rmsanger said:


> Here is some feedback I received on the FA-10 on another site that I found helpful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very useful point of view. Thanks. Undoubtedly, the quality of circuitry and components plays an essential role in the creation of technology. To a greater extent, I agree with the opinion that you can want or get a much higher result from listed headphones model. But let's be honest, none of the creators called the device an endpoint; guys just made an excellent, fair offer that is a great deal to many. No cheating. Finding a concept of sound for one and all is a utopia. It seems that this is manifested in the search for polar ideas of sound, because it was no accident that the PRO model was presented.  Two different concepts for different audiences. After communicating with the support service, and the guys answered me literally the following: "FA-10 and FA-10PRO based on similar topology but with some unique differences. Thanks to that, FA-10 and FA-10PRO has the same output power but different sound character. PRO version is more crisp and detailed; the bass response has more focus but less voluminous. Classical version is more warm and musical; mids are more emotional." I find the main problem at the moment the lack of a more detailed analysis of the sound signature of these two models by third-party reviewers.  I think it would be much more difficult for the gentleman who wrote so many things to highlight the conditionally weaknesses of the amplifier, which simply did not fit into his picture of perception.


----------



## tholt

In a nutshell, the FA10 is a $750 amp. In that context, I'd say it's very competitive and does a lot of things well, some impressively well. If you have headphones that are also in that price range, you might be set. But if you have cans that retail in the several thousands of dollars, like Susvara, Abyss, even Utopia and easier to drive ones, the FA10 will be the weak link there. Those cans are priced that way because they are truly TOTL. They do things other headphones can't, they are technically and sonically superior to other headphones, and they are priced accordingly. IMO, if you are going to invest in that level of headphone, you can't expect to get the most out of them with a low to mid-tier amplifier. You just won't. I'd say the FA10 did well with the Abyss 1266 Phi that I own. But is it endgame? No. Can it be bettered? Yes. However, this is not to say that one can't be happy with the FA10 and a TOTL headphone. That part will always be subjective.

My feeling is that Flux set out to deliver a worthy contender, with a lot of power, at a price point. They wanted to offer a lot of value, which they have. The FA10 is a solid option in the <$1k market. I don't believe they set out to deliver an endgame amp in the FA10. If they did, it would do things better and be priced higher (and I assume that's where the Volot might come in). So I think they knew exactly what they were targeting and priced it accordingly.

If anyone is looking for amp suggestions specifically for Abyss, be sure to check out the dedicated thread. It's huge and very active, with lots of info https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/


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## Hooster

gancanjam said:


> As stated, *the pricier Neo 430 is clearly an upgrade* to FA-10 while ifi Can Pro or Rogue audio RP5 is a side grade to my ears with me still leaning towards FA-10



Are you sure? Have you compared them seriously? Some would say that the Neo 430 is not that great: "  he 430HA sounds a bit slow and - as much as it pains me to say this - almost boring in a way."
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/simaudio-moon-neo-430ha.20534/reviews
I have seen others who are not that enthusiastic about the 430. What is it about the 430 that makes you say it is clearly an upgrade to the FA-10?


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## gancanjam (Sep 21, 2020)

Hooster said:


> Are you sure? Have you compared them seriously? Some would say that the Neo 430 is not that great: "  he 430HA sounds a bit slow and - as much as it pains me to say this - almost boring in a way."
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/simaudio-moon-neo-430ha.20534/reviews
> I have seen others who are not that enthusiastic about the 430. What is it about the 430 that makes you say it is clearly an upgrade to the FA-10?



_Are you sure? Have you compared them seriously?_  Yes to my ears. I own both FCN-10/FA-10 and Neo 430 HAD so this is my first hand impression

_Some would say that the Neo 430 is not that great: "  he 430HA sounds a bit slow and - as much as it pains me to say this - almost boring in a way." - _No am glad you are sharing these to discuss, you are right that these perceptions does float around and by the way i am sure you also would have also seen the opposite side of the coin which are the praises of this unit to sound way more than the $5K price point so which side we have to believe now ?  we only can believe our ears which is unique to our preference  i read these few not so good impressions myself but still ended up buying the Neo 430 as i listened to it more than few times myself. Following( at the end of the post) is what i had written down yesterday which also gives this caveat about these perception which you had also highlighted.  I found HE 1000 V2 to be slower/softer with 430, Mezze Empyrean/Stellia  were relaxed sounding  while Utopia & Abyss sounded lively.  Even with Utopia which sounds fast with many songs, i can think of few things why some would call it slower 1) HP pairing 2) some songs can **seem** to sound slower if 430 pushes a lot of Sub bass as the sub bass is not that quick & punchy with added depth 3)  also 430 has the way to make everything sound fuller/bigger/refined so that may add a perception of the speed trade off.  With utopia i am having fun with 430.

_What is it about the 430 that makes you say it is clearly an upgrade to the FA-10? _following is my experience/compare-contrast with FA-10

_50% Head Fiers like Chord sound while 50% like Fuller sound like FA-10 & Neo 430 so pick your poison of preference, everyone of us is different

Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO - I have never seen any DAC/Amp embarrassing FCN-10/FA-10 so far and have listened to quite a few of them but it does not mean no $5K DAC/Amp will outwit FCN-10. Enters Neo 430 ! If FA-10 is a well made buttoned up formal shirt then Neo 430 is even better i.e. a Tuxedo and it sounds... in words, expensive, grand, high end. However it has some mixed reviews in the forum, though many has sung accolades, there are few call Neo 430 as softer, overly smoother, less precise, slower, older DAC chip and i respectfully disagree the generalization here as it all comes down to the the pairing, song recording & listening preference. Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO DAC is musical and to compliment the amplifier is uber detailed solid state so that combo hit home runs in most departments. It is Detailed still musical, extended gobs of Treble details flying around still non offensive, that big Sub bass thud still controlled, can listen to both Sub bass as well as the faster Micro drum beats, Full sounding like being in a English pub, Instruments circling around your head to greet you when it is introduced, Highly resolving. Compared against FA-10, Neo 430 has more Sub bass presence with decay lingers around a mico second more trading off slightly with the FA-10s quicker mid bass slam/decay , both are full sounding but Neo 430 is grander, Neo 430 resolution/clarity is noticeably superior than FA-10, Dynamics/instruments/ guitar plucks/violins/everything else in Neo 430 are on the face with realistic feeling to give goose bump moments compared to FA-10 where some instruments can go to the background with smoother overlay e.g. a Guitar pluck sounds very realistic and crystal clear with Neo 430 without harshness compared to FA-10 paired with Utopia, Neo 430 treble feels like being on a discotheque with that Hi fidelity in offensive extended treble sound **njinchikk ..njinchikkk **  , both are great for EDM/Pop/Electronica with Neo 430 still having that clear edge to my ears compared to Flux but hey Neo 430 it is 5 times more expensive. I liked Neo 430 better than same priced Luxman P750U as well._


----------



## rmsanger

artist777 said:


> *Very useful point of view. Thanks. Undoubtedly, the quality of circuitry and components plays an essential role in the creation of technology. To a greater extent, I agree with the opinion that you can want or get a much higher result from listed headphones model.* *But let's be honest, none of the creators called the device an endpoint; guys just made an excellent, fair offer that is a great deal to many. No cheating. Finding a concept of sound for one and all is a utopia. It seems that this is manifested in the search for polar ideas of sound, because it was no accident that the PRO model was presented*.  Two different concepts for different audiences. After communicating with the support service, and the guys answered me literally the following: "FA-10 and FA-10PRO based on similar topology but with some unique differences. Thanks to that, FA-10 and FA-10PRO has the same output power but different sound character. PRO version is more crisp and detailed; the bass response has more focus but less voluminous. Classical version is more warm and musical; mids are more emotional." I find the main problem at the moment the lack of a more detailed analysis of the sound signature of these two models by third-party reviewers.  I think it would be much more difficult for the gentleman who wrote so many things to highlight the conditionally weaknesses of the amplifier, which simply did not fit into his picture of perception.



Agreed this came from a poster on another audio forum I visit frequently and he has a ton of credibility when providing honest/useful feedback.  I trust his take!

I agree on the 2nd point and it's the great community that may have contributed to the hype of the FA-10 perhaps beyond it's actual performance.   But I think his praise and then expression of limitations basically sets up the value prop for the Volot.  Others on this thread have questioned the crediblity of Flux offering a higher priced / statement / TOTL amp when they aren't "known" for it.  Others have also why you would want to go from a $750 investment -> $2500 where his commentary lays out what specifics are to be gained by the Volot.  I guess the takeaway is HE6 likely pairs best still with speaker amp, Susvara/1266 you will want the volot or other statement amp and everything else lower will likely pair best with FA-10.  At least that is what I got out of it.


----------



## tholt

Sorry if I missed it -- does anyone here own the FA10 Pro? I don't recall reading any firsthand experiences with it here or elsewhere


----------



## Slim1970

tholt said:


> In a nutshell, the FA10 is a $750 amp. In that context, I'd say it's very competitive and does a lot of things well, some impressively well. If you have headphones that are also in that price range, you might be set. But if you have cans that retail in the several thousands of dollars, like Susvara, Abyss, even Utopia and easier to drive ones, the FA10 will be the weak link there. Those cans are priced that way because they are truly TOTL. They do things other headphones can't, they are technically and sonically superior to other headphones, and they are priced accordingly. IMO, if you are going to invest in that level of headphone, you can't expect to get the most out of them with a low to mid-tier amplifier. You just won't. I'd say the FA10 did well with the Abyss 1266 Phi that I own. But is it endgame? No. Can it be bettered? Yes. However, this is not to say that one can't be happy with the FA10 and a TOTL headphone. That part will always be subjective.
> 
> My feeling is that Flux set out to deliver a worthy contender, with a lot of power, at a price point. They wanted to offer a lot of value, which they have. The FA10 is a solid option in the <$1k market. I don't believe they set out to deliver an endgame amp in the FA10. If they did, it would do things better and be priced higher (and I assume that's where the Volot might come in). So I think they knew exactly what they were targeting and priced it accordingly.
> 
> If anyone is looking for amp suggestions specifically for Abyss, be sure to check out the dedicated thread. It's huge and very active, with lots of info https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/



I have a couple of the headphones you mentioned, namely the Susvara's and Abyss TC's. Both are very picky about amplification pairings. After listening to them both on the FA-10 I wouldn't necessarily call in the weak link in my chain at all. It does very good job at driving both them. It's quite the musical pairing if I'm being honest. I don't feel that I'm missing out on much sound wise at all. Detail, resolution, speed, punchy, impactful bass, a musical midrange, treble clarity, weighty notes all get checked off on the FA-10.

I have a Burson Timekeeper power amp and it does get me that last bit of refinement. But it's also 4x's the price. So I get what you're saying about The FA-10 being a contender in the amplifier market because it is. The trade-offs are minimal for what you get for $750 in comparison. I can easily live with FA-10 as my only amp. The Susvara, TC's and HEKse's all let you hear system flaws. With the FA-10 in the chain those flaws have minimized to my ears. I'm a fan of the way the FA-10 does music. Sure it's not the most technical amp I've heard. But those amps aren't a good pairing with the TC's or Susvara's. These headphones need a dose of musicality and that's what the FA-10 offers over a lot of the competition. You really do have to spend a considerable amount of money to get that last bit of refinement, musicality and power to best the FA-10. To me, that is what makes the FA-10 a heck of a deal.


----------



## tholt

Slim1970 said:


> I have a couple of the headphones you mentioned, namely the Susvara's and Abyss TC's. Both are very picky about amplification pairings. After listening to them both on the FA-10 I wouldn't necessarily call in the weak link in my chain at all. It does very good job at driving both them. It's quite the musical pairing if I'm being honest. I don't feel that I'm missing out on much sound wise at all. Detail, resolution, speed, punchy, impactful bass, a musical midrange, treble clarity, weighty notes all get checked off on the FA-10.
> 
> I have a Burson Timekeeper power amp and it does get me that last bit of refinement. But it's also 4x's the price. So I get what you're saying about The FA-10 being a contender in the amplifier market because it is. The trade-offs are minimal for what you get for $750 in comparison. I can easily live with FA-10 as my only amp. The Susvara, TC's and HEKse's all let you hear system flaws. With the FA-10 in the chain those flaws have minimized to my ears. I'm a fan of the way the FA-10 does music. Sure it's not the most technical amp I've heard. But those amps aren't a good pairing with the TC's or Susvara's. These headphones need a dose of musicality and that's what the FA-10 offers over a lot of the competition. You really do have to spend a considerable amount of money to get that last bit of refinement, musicality and power to best the FA-10. To me, that is what makes the FA-10 a heck of a deal.


That's great. I never said it wasn't a great amp, and that one couldn't be perfectly happy with it. If it checks all your boxes, more power to you. 



Slim1970 said:


> You really do have to spend a considerable amount of money to get that last bit of refinement, musicality and power to best the FA-10.



Yes, you would have to spend more money to get a better amp, that's obvious.


----------



## jaker782 (Sep 25, 2020)

just received an FA-10 and it is sounding very good with my HE-6se.  Sound is full and organic, bass is tight, mids and highs are clear without any harshness or fatigue.  The highs on the 6se can get a bit hot so this makes me happy.

Only quibbles so far are it seems the gain isn't very powerful, but it is the 6se I am driving.  I need high gain with maybe 2 o'clock on the dial and I don't listen loud.  Also, not used to the relay clicking on the volume knob.  While I haven't tried, I have a feeling this amp will run iems and low impedance cans hiss free on low gain.  I'll have to do more testing this weekend.

All in all, so far I am pleased with the FA-10.  Oh yeah, it is built like a tank and looks great too!


----------



## Slim1970

jaker782 said:


> just received an FA-10 and it is sounding very good with my HE-6se.  Sound is full and organic, bass is tight, mids and highs are clear without any harshness or fatigue.  The highs on the 6se can get a bit hot so this makes me happy.
> 
> Only quibbles so far are it seems the gain isn't very powerful, but it is the 6se I am driving.  I need high gain with maybe 2 o'clock on the dial and I don't listen loud.  Also, not used to the relay clicking on the volume knob.  While I haven't tried, I have a feeling this amp will run iems and low impedance cans hiss free on low gain.  I'll have to do more testing this weekend.
> 
> All in all, so far I am pleased with the FA-10.  Oh yeah, it is built like a tank and looks great too!


Glad, you like it. You are right, there isn't much disparity in going from medium to high gain. It's only like a 5 dB differences. I guess this is why some manufacturer's only include low and high gain on their products. I do utilize medium gain sometimes with headphones, like my Quad ERA-1's and LCD-4z's. They don't really need it, but planar drivers, to my ears, benefit from the extra volume boost.

I drive my Susvara's on high gain at 2 o'clock as well. It's plenty loud at that point. But I like that even at high volume levels the FA-10 remains composed and continues to delivery good, distortion free sound. It's like it made to be driven hard.


----------



## jaker782

Slim1970 said:


> Glad, you like it. You are right, there isn't much disparity in going from medium to high gain. It's only like a 5 dB differences. I guess this is why some manufacturer's only include low and high gain on their products. I do utilize medium gain sometimes with headphones, like my Quad ERA-1's and LCD-4z's. They don't really need it, but planar drivers, to my ears, benefit from the extra volume boost.
> 
> I drive my Susvara's on high gain at 2 o'clock as well. It's plenty loud at that point. But I like that even at high volume levels the FA-10 remains composed and continues to delivery good, distortion free sound. It's like it made to be driven hard.



I guess for some reason I was thinking the power this amp provides would mean high gain would be louder.  But, I will say it is evident that this amp has much better control of the 6se when I get that volume level cranked on high gain.  Like you said, it doesn't distort or get sloppy at all, even with the 6se, which to me is indicative that the FA-10 is a very high quality amp indeed!


----------



## driftingbunnies

jaker782 said:


> I guess for some reason I was thinking the power this amp provides would mean high gain would be louder.  But, I will say it is evident that this amp has much better control of the 6se when I get that volume level cranked on high gain.  Like you said, it doesn't distort or get sloppy at all, even with the 6se, which to me is indicative that the FA-10 is a very high quality amp indeed!



Have you tried comparing mid and high gain with the HE-6se? I actually liked mid gain with it and just cranked the volume up a little bit more. I guess it also depends on your dac but with the yggdrasil, I never felt like I needed to go past 1 o'clock with any headphone.


----------



## Slim1970

jaker782 said:


> I guess for some reason I was thinking the power this amp provides would mean high gain would be louder.  But, I will say it is evident that this amp has much better control of the 6se when I get that volume level cranked on high gain.  Like you said, it doesn't distort or get sloppy at all, even with the 6se, which to me is indicative that the FA-10 is a very high quality amp indeed!


The HE6se and Susvara have odd loads for a headphone. Their impedance's are speaker like and not very efficient ones at that. It's why so many dedicated headphone amps struggle to get the best out of both of them. It's also the reason so many head-fiers turn to power amps to drive them. What's unique about the FA-10 is it specifically designed to deal with the high demands of headphones like the HE6se's, Susvara's, and TC's. It does this while remaining composed and adding some class A character. 

All three of these headphones are resolving and transparent. The Susvara and TC's bring speed to equation. The FA-10 does nothing to take away these attributes but enhances them. The FA-10 is full sounding with a lot of body. No frequency seems to be exaggerated. It's dynamic, clean at any volume level, quiet, transparent, natural sounding, musical  and powerful. The FA-10 may not be the last word in refinement, but it's one of the most complete solid state headphone amp I've heard.


----------



## jaker782

driftingbunnies said:


> Have you tried comparing mid and high gain with the HE-6se? I actually liked mid gain with it and just cranked the volume up a little bit more. I guess it also depends on your dac but with the yggdrasil, I never felt like I needed to go past 1 o'clock with any headphone.



I honestly could barely detect any difference at all in volume level between mid and high gain.  Very subtle.  I really was only listening for volume differences and did not critically listen for any perceived sonic improvements.  I'll have to test the gain further to see if I agree.  Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Slim1970

jaker782 said:


> I honestly could barely detect any difference at all in volume level between mid and high gain.  Very subtle.  I really was only listening for volume differences and did not critically listen for any perceived sonic improvements.  I'll have to test the gain further to see if I agree.  Thanks for the suggestion!


There shouldn’t be any sonic differences, but you should hear a slight boost in volume level.


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## jaker782

Slim1970 said:


> There shouldn’t be any sonic differences, but you should hear a slight boost in volume level.



I have to say I am not hearing a difference in sound quality between mid and high gain... and only a slight volume increase on high gain.  This is with my 6se, so the volume difference is likely much less pronounced than a typical headphone.


----------



## funkur

funkur said:


> It's definitely too soon to tell - especially because the fuse just blew after a cable swap!  Google tells me this is a common issue actually, many folks have to go for a higher Amp rating than stock due to SR fuses blowing at power up.
> But after popping the stock fuse back in, the thing I noticed most was the blacker background the SR added.  Which is surprising, as I felt the FA-10 was pretty silent as is.  The replacement will be here in about a week and I'll post further impressions after that one properly burns in.



Update: The replacement SR orange fuse (this one rated at 2.5 A) also blew within a day.  But it did sound great, definitely a blacker background allowing for more low level detail and resolution to come through. I heard/noticed a few new things on really familiar albums like OK Computer and Kid A that are now not as intelligible back on the stock fuse. 

A fun experiment, but I can’t recommend the SR’s due to reliability concerns.  Going to try Hifi Tuning Supreme3 next.


----------



## tholt (Sep 27, 2020)

funkur said:


> Update: The replacement SR orange fuse (this one rated at 2.5 A) also blew within a day.  But it did sound great, definitely a blacker background allowing for more low level detail and resolution to come through. I heard/noticed a few new things on really familiar albums like OK Computer and Kid A that are now not as intelligible back on the stock fuse.
> 
> A fun experiment, but I can’t recommend the SR’s due to reliability concerns.  Going to try Hifi Tuning Supreme3 next.


Wow, you  went through two $160 fuses? You don't seem that concerned -- are you sure there isn't something going on with the amp or something else? FWIW I've run SR Blue fuses for many years in pretty much all my gear, never an issue. I've also never read anything online about SR fuse reliability issues, not to say that there can't be any. But I think if they did have consistent issues people would be griping about it online, considering their cost.


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> Wow, you  went through two $160 fuses? You don't seem that concerned -- are you sure there isn't something going on with the amp or something else? FWIW I've run SR Blue fuses for many years in pretty much all my gear, never an issue. I've also never read anything online about SR fuse reliability issues, not to say that there can't be any. But I think if they did have consistent issues people would be griping about it online, considering their cost.



I agree this does sound strange, I’ve been using sr fuses for years with zero problems, in fact I don’t think had one blow yet.


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## funkur (Sep 27, 2020)

tholt said:


> Wow, you  went through two $160 fuses? You don't seem that concerned -- are you sure there isn't something going on with the amp or something else? FWIW I've run SR Blue fuses for many years in pretty much all my gear, never an issue. I've also never read anything online about SR fuse reliability issues, not to say that there can't be any. But I think if they did have consistent issues people would be griping about it online, considering their cost.



Luckily, they have a money back guarantee for 30 days!  I've read a few experiences on Audiogon where folks really had to increase the A rating (up to double) on the SR fuses to keep them from blowing on turn on/off.  I'm fairly certain they blew when turning off the amp both times as the FA-10 does "thump" a bit when powering up/down.  (I believe this affects the fast fuses much more than the slow).  There's definitely nothing wrong with the amp; the stock 2A Fast fuse is working fine. 

I bought the SR Blue slow fuses for my Sboosters when I bought the Orange for the FA-10 and those have been fine, but I'd rather switch them all out now to another brand before the 30 days are up.


----------



## funkur

teknorob23 said:


> I agree this does sound strange, I’ve been using sr fuses for years with zero problems, in fact I don’t think had one blow yet.



Have you tried them in your FA-12?


----------



## tholt

funkur said:


> Luckily, they have a money back guarantee for 30 days!  I've read a few experiences on Audiogon where folks really had to increase the A rating (up to double) on the SR fuses to keep them from blowing on turn on/off.  I'm fairly certain they blew when turning off the amp both times as the FA-10 does "thump" a bit when powering up/down.  (I believe this affects the fast fuses much more than the slow).  There's definitely nothing wrong with the amp; the stock 2A Fast fuse is working fine.
> 
> I bought the SR Blue slow fuses for my Sboosters when I bought the Orange for the FA-10 and those have been fine, but I'd rather switch them all out now to another brand.


Oh that's good. By your calm tone, I sort of wondered/assumed you were able to get a replacement. Very good. And you're right, if the normal fuse works I guess there's nothing wrong with the amp there. 

I've also read that one should go slightly higher using SR fuses. I've always used the same rating as stock fuse w/no issues, but it's also prob dependent on gear. The FA-10 thump can cause it evidently, though I'm a little surprised that the last one blew despite being a higher rating.


----------



## teknorob23

funkur said:


> Have you tried them in your FA-12?



No, i dont usually mess about with the in-device fuses, but i use them in most of my power leads


----------



## funkur

tholt said:


> Oh that's good. By your calm tone, I sort of wondered/assumed you were able to get a replacement. Very good. And you're right, if the normal fuse works I guess there's nothing wrong with the amp there.
> 
> I've also read that one should go slightly higher using SR fuses. I've always used the same rating as stock fuse w/no issues, but it's also prob dependent on gear. The FA-10 thump can cause it evidently, though I'm a little surprised that the last one blew despite being a higher rating.



Yeah, that's the rub for me... I really liked the sound, but I don't want to move further up to a 3.15A or 4A fuse in fear of possibly damaging the FA-10.


----------



## tholt

funkur said:


> Yeah, that's the rub for me... I really liked the sound, but I don't want to move further up to a 3.15A or 4A fuse in fear of possibly damaging the FA-10.


Great point.


----------



## artist777

funkur said:


> Yeah, that's the rub for me... I really liked the sound, but I don't want to move further up to a 3.15A or 4A fuse in fear of possibly damaging the FA-10.


Try to install the *slow* type fuse, then it will not blow when the amplifier is turned on, when there is a surge in consumption


----------



## funkur

artist777 said:


> Try to install the *slow* type fuse, then it will not blow when the amplifier is turned on, when there is a surge in consumption



Flux specifies a Fast type, I don’t want to mess with it.


----------



## tholt

artist777 said:


> Try to install the *slow* type fuse, then it will not blow when the amplifier is turned on, when there is a surge in consumption





funkur said:


> Flux specifies a Fast type, I don’t want to mess with it.


Agreed. I'm no electrician, but from what I've read F and S are not interchangeable. Each are used for a specific reason.


----------



## sahmen

Does anyone know what the specs of the Volot are going to be?  I've been wondering whether it will simply be a reconstruction of the Amp stage of the Atlas (similar to the way the FA-10 relates to the FCN-10) or whether it is going to have a more independent construction, for example, sport more output power, and maybe, come with a pre-amp stage thrown in...  A pre-amp stage would be really nice, and the mo' power part too.


----------



## John Massaria

main differences of 12 and 10? and 10pro? sound wise I am talking about thanks!


----------



## MIR05LAV

John Massaria said:


> main differences of 12 and 10? and 10pro? sound wise I am talking about thanks!


Not that I have heard any of them, but had a chat yesterday with Fluxlab. 
Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs. Used to have Burson C3XP, and while I loved the huge scene, great separation and incredible layering and details, it was a tiny bit fatiguing for me, especially when listening a bit louder. My headphones are ZMF-s Eikons. Hope they dont mind if I copy it here:

me: (...) _I was thinking about lamp amplifier, but maybe a bit warmer solid stade would be good enough   Lamps tend to lose some impact with faster genres .._
Flux: _So you're looking for some more comfortable sound signature right?_
me:  _yeah, but without losing impact and faster details _
F: _I think FA-10 would be most preferred for your needs 
The sound signature of fa12 is a bit a sparkled with a bit bright  mid-range. FA10 is more calm and musical it mids maybe not so detailed as 12 but some unique signature, which is not typical for solid state amplifiers_

So from that conversation FA-10 is more laid out? Though it was 12 that is Probalby best way is just chat with them on fb.

I have decided to take FA-10, was thinking about  FC-10  as well, but is quite a bit more, and would be better to be able to change DAC? Have anyone compared FC-10 with other DAC-s? Is it good, or is it better to buy standalone DAC unit insted  ? 
cheers,
Mirek


----------



## teknorob23

John Massaria said:


> main differences of 12 and 10? and 10pro? sound wise I am talking about thanks!





MIR05LAV said:


> Not that I have heard any of them, but had a chat yesterday with Fluxlab.
> Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs. Used to have Burson C3XP, and while I loved the huge scene, great separation and incredible layering and details, it was a tiny bit fatiguing for me, especially when listening a bit louder. My headphones are ZMF-s Eikons. Hope they dont mind if I copy it here:
> 
> me: (...) _I was thinking about lamp amplifier, but maybe a bit warmer solid stade would be good enough   Lamps tend to lose some impact with faster genres .._
> ...



Hi guys i own the FA12 and have been lucky enough to spend a couple months with FCn10. I've been promising a full comparison for while and hopefully life will let up for longer than 5 minutes and i'll be able do this before they're obsolete.

Quick notes on how the amps compare. First off they have more similarities than differences, obvs one is balanced the other isnt, but because ive been feeding them with the Hugo2 DAC, which is unbalanced, i can only compare single ended performance but at least this keeps things like for like.

Sorry this isnt going to be very organised and there will probably be repetition:

I'm over simplifying but the main source of all of the differences seem to be as result of the 12 being slightly warmer and 10 being cooler. This shapes all other aspects of their presentation, which at their core is very similar, both have excellent imaging, resolving and transparent to the source, virtually linear with the line drawn incrementally above the wamside of the line and they are both two of the most addictive non-tube listens i've had the pleasure of experiencing .

Oh and just FYI i have done most my listening with this set up

Sennheiser HD820 with some Beyer DT1770 pro, Mr Speakers Ether C Flows
Hugo2 DAC (with a bit TT2 just to remind me what i'm missing)
SoTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo with Linear PSU
With our own ENO ethernet filter and UPOCC silver interconnects, ethernet and power cables
Music: 75% Electronica, 20% indie guitar and 5% anything (hows that for an arbitrary use of percentages? )

I will have missed lots out,  this a bit of dyslexic stream of consciousness, but please fire away with any specific questions as ive pages of scrawled notes from the last few months.

Overall presentation of the two amps

both excel at imaging, balance, control, separation,  dynamics you name it, both completely coherent with sense of liquidity in the way the frequencies integrate. They are just touch north of neutral heat wise, but as someone who spends a lot of time listening to studio kit, this is what hifi is supposed to do.. it should be just much of musical instrument, it just has to be consistent and coherent with hue it puts of the source material.

Soundstage-

Equal but 10 feels slightly more airy because of its thinner tone, but both are naturally wide and deep, just right without being distractingly wide or overly congested. front to back layering is slightly better to my ears with 12, again probably down to texture and shape from the added warmth

Resolution -

Pretty much even and way ahead of anything i've heard sub £1K or for that matter pretty much everything up £1.5-2K, 10 gives you the same information every listen and if this makes sense the 12 gives you a choice of sitting back and letting the music carry you away or you can listen as critically and deep into the music as you wish, despite the notes having more body they are still well separated, layered and organised

Layering/ Separation

Sort of covered that above, but as i say both do an excellent job here, 10 slightly more space, but its a trade off for 12's slightly nicer texture. Neither are what you'd call holographic, like say my Feliks Audio Euforiai OTL was, but theres still good enough depth to position the instruments/ sounds accurately.

Tonality and Timbre -

FA10 light, clean, and everything sounds natural thanks to a hint of warmth. Everything still has good weight but just less decay and overall body than 12
FA12 Richer, slightly warmer (but never overdone) which gives the whole presentation more body. One key plus of both amps tonality is while they lean towards warm, neither shows any sign of darkness, treble still has just the right amount of sparkle and even though 12 is fuller the mids sound open and immediate.

Bass

Both have present bass in the way i like to hear it, textured natural, layered without any leakage or bloating. The decay is shorter but not clipped with 10, whereas the 12 is just that bit longer with slightly better harmonics for being this way.

Even with Stephen Morris's super price paired down dystopian drumming on Unknown pleasures opener Disorder, both amps put you in the cold warehouse, but i do find the added body and texture the 12 provides, gives thinner sounding 80s 90s new wave an extra 3 dimensionality and slightly more contemporary quality. The 10 is equally evocative, but i probably want to reach for my coat as i'm transported to rainy, cold late 70s manchester... I think my point here is i like both its just different flavours for different moods.

I listen to a lot of complicated sitting down techno, where i look for imaging, detail, balance, precision and pace, but it has to have as anologue and natural packaging if i'm really going to be transported. Both amps do this, but the differences in decay again, are more to suit my mood than making one better than the other.. Today i prefer the 12 

Midrange -

My thoughts on this have fluctuated, first i loved the fullness and texture of the 12, then the clean, accurate but natural 10 took my heart. At the moment the pendulum has swung back to the 12, mainly because i'm listening to a lot of guitar music especially Thurston Moore's new'ish album: By the fire, which is noisy, discordant but intricate and complicated. Both make perfect sense of it but i can actually feel the crunch of the guitars and vibration of fingers being dragged up fretboards with the 12, whereas the 10 just keeps me that bit further back from the action.

tonally the midrange is natural and smooth with both, voices of each gender sound right, but as in other areas the 10 is a bit cleaner, a bit more in the studio whereas the 12 is more sitting in the live lounge or front row of gig.

Treble -

The treble is a real unsung hero in both amps, sweet natural, with just the right amount of snap and sparkle, and seamless in integration with the mids. Again tonality is the big difference, 12 is just a bit sweeter, easier to pic up harmonic variations, whereas the 10 while compared other amps like the A90 is sweet, but compared the 12 sounds more studio-like, detailed but less flowing perhaps... these differences are again more a case of how they mesh with the listeners preferences as opposed to making one amp better.

I'm out of time and rather then do what i normally do, which is leave a post half written that then disappears, i'll come back with a bit more of a summing up, comparison to the a90 and thoughts on how the FCN-10's DAC fairs.

Sadly the FCN10 moved on yesterday, but if i had both amps and had to keep one, it would be the FA12, the 10 is amazing but the 12 is unique.


----------



## sahmen

teknorob23 said:


> Hi guys i own the FA12 and have been lucky enough to spend a couple months with FCn10. I've been promising a full comparison for while and hopefully life will let up for longer than 5 minutes and i'll be able do this before they're obsolete.
> 
> Quick notes on how the amps compare. First off they have more similarities than differences, obvs one is balanced the other isnt, but because ive been feeding them with the Hugo2 DAC, which is unbalanced, i can only compare single ended performance but at least this keeps things like for like.
> 
> ...



This is interesting and informative. Thanks.  What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power. I find it interesting that Flux Labs like to hit one upfront with the Fa 10's 16 watts into 32 ohms credentials and yet opts to remain silent on the exact specs of the Fa-12.  I am not necessarily saying that there is some conspiracy or something fishy going on...  I just want to be sure whether the Fa 12 can muster the same muscle in output wattage as the Fa 10 when handling loads that are more difficult than typical, in situations where each last watt counts,  such as the He6SE or the Susvara.  So far, I do not see anything I do not like in your description of either amp.  However, these extremely hard to drive cans can always bring some sonic differences to the table, if it should turn out that the output power of one amp (e.g. the 10), significantly exceeds that of the other (e.g. the 12).  That is why i want to make sure the 12 is not under-spec'ed in this particular area.


----------



## MIR05LAV

sahmen said:


> What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power.


From their website:
FA-10

Output power300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel,       32Ohm: 16W RMS per channel,         600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel
FA-12

Output power     300Ohm: 360mW RMS per channel, 32Ohm: 2600mW RMS per channel, 50Ohm: 1700mW RMS per channel

There is quite a difference.


----------



## teknorob23

sahmen said:


> This is interesting and informative. Thanks.  What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power. I find it interesting that Flux Labs like to hit one upfront with the Fa 10's 16 watts into 32 ohms credentials and yet opts to remain silent on the exact specs of the Fa-12.  I am not necessarily saying that there is some conspiracy or something fishy going on...  I just want to be sure whether the Fa 12 can muster the same muscle in output wattage as the Fa 10 when handling loads that are more difficult than typical, in situations where each last watt counts,  such as the He6SE or the Susvara.  So far, I do not see anything I do not like in your description of either amp.  However, these extremely hard to drive cans can always bring some sonic differences to the table, if it should turn out that the output power of one amp (e.g. the 10), significantly exceeds that of the other (e.g. the 12).  That is why i want to make sure the 12 is not under-spec'ed in this particular area.



Have you messaged them through facebook, they are pretty quick to come back. They are a small company growing fast so i dont think its a case of not wanting to share info, they probably havent got around to it, but if you message them they should be able to give you the info you need. I havent run either amp with such power hungry headphones so i cant say for certain, but i'm sure someone else can chip in here who has. Would you be running the 12 balanced because this will make difference


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## sahmen

MIR05LAV said:


> From their website:
> FA-10
> 
> Output power300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel,       32Ohm: 16W RMS per channel,         600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel
> ...


Yes, quite.  I wonder why I couldn't see these Fa-12's specs when I briefly visited the site this morning (emphasis on "briefly"  )


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## sahmen

teknorob23 said:


> Have you messaged them through facebook, they are pretty quick to come back. They are a small company growing fast so i dont think its a case of not wanting to share info, they probably havent got around to it, but if you message them they should be able to give you the info you need. I havent run either amp with such power hungry headphones so i cant say for certain, but i'm sure someone else can chip in here who has. Would you be running the 12 balanced because this will make difference


Yes, I would be running it balanced, but I am not sure how far that will go in making up for the shortfall in output power if I am dealing with the less than typical difficult loads I mentioned.  As for messaging them on Facebook, I have already done that (chatted) several times, and have been told upfront, repeatedly and without any wavering, that the Fa-10 is the way to go, so it almost doesn't feel polite to continue pressing them for answers about other models. Now since I am ideally interested in balanced internal circuitries, the one unit which I am additionally interested in is the Volot, but I find that they're particularly "mum" about its specs at this time, so there too, I am disinclined to press further for answers.


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## jaker782

sahmen said:


> Yes, I would be running it balanced, but I am not sure how far that will go in making up for the shortfall in output power if I am dealing with the less than typical difficult loads I mentioned.  As for messaging them on Facebook, I have already done that (chatted) several times, and have been told upfront, repeatedly and without any wavering, that the Fa-10 is the way to go, so it almost doesn't feel polite to continue pressing them for answers about other models. Now since I am ideally interested in balanced internal circuitries, the one unit which I am additionally interested in is the Volot, but I find that they're particularly "mum" about its specs at this time, so there too, I am disinclined to press further for answers.



Well, if you are pairing with something like the HE-6se or Susvara, it seems to me the FA-10 is definitely the way to go (unless you want to wait for the Volot) despite the FA-10 not being balanced.  Even if the FA-12 running balanced does okay with those hard to drive cans, the FA-10 even single ended should do better as 16W vs. 2.6W into 32 ohms is a huge difference, regardless of balanced vs. single ended topology.

PS.  I am using the FA-10 to drive my HE-6se, and feel it does a wonderful job!  I prefer it to the balanced Liquid Platinum, which is more powerful than the FA-12.


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## jaker782 (Sep 30, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> I'm over simplifying but the main source of all of the differences seem to be as result of the *12 being slightly warmer and 10 being cooler*. This shapes all other aspects of their presentation, which at their core is very similar, both have excellent imaging, resolving and transparent to the source, virtually linear with the line drawn incrementally above the wamside of the line and they are both two of the most addictive non-tube listens i've had the pleasure of experiencing .
> 
> Tonality and Timbre -
> 
> ...





MIR05LAV said:


> Not that I have heard any of them, but had a chat yesterday with Fluxlab.
> Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs. Used to have Burson C3XP, and while I loved the huge scene, great separation and incredible layering and details, it was a tiny bit fatiguing for me, especially when listening a bit louder. My headphones are ZMF-s Eikons. Hope they dont mind if I copy it here:
> 
> me: (...) _I was thinking about lamp amplifier, but maybe a bit warmer solid stade would be good enough   Lamps tend to lose some impact with faster genres .._
> ...



It is great we are getting some additional impressions of these amps!  However, it appears we have some conflicting info here based on the above posts.  Is the FA-10 the warmer amp with a more tube-like presentation or is it the FA-12?  I am not saying either of the above impressions is wrong as we all hear things differently, just trying to sort this out so potential buyers can make a better informed decision.


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## rmsanger (Sep 30, 2020)

In case anyone is looking for another option to consider here it is:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...wpc-xlr-with-muse72320-volume-control.941047/

Raoul on that thread measure it up to:



> Soloist starts to bend its edges (clipping) at around 15W/channel @32Ohms and 1.3W @600 Ohms, so pretty close to the Flux headamps. Burson was always very conservative when publishing the specs for their gear, probably because they don't want to make much fuzz around it.





> _Key Features:_
> 
> 
> _8Wpc XLR, 4Wpc SE Headphone amp / Preamp._
> ...









Here are a few reviews:


----------



## driftingbunnies

Thanks for the shill. Have you compared it with the FA-10/FA-12?


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## Slim1970

jaker782 said:


> Well, if you are pairing with something like the HE-6se or Susvara, it seems to me the FA-10 is definitely the way to go (unless you want to wait for the Volot) despite the FA-10 not being balanced.  Even if the FA-12 running balanced does okay with those hard to drive cans, the FA-10 even single ended should do better as 16W vs. 2.6W into 32 ohms is a huge difference, regardless of balanced vs. single ended topology.
> 
> PS.  I am using the FA-10 to drive my HE-6se, and feel it does a wonderful job!  I prefer it to the balanced Liquid Platinum, which is more powerful than the FA-12.


I have the LP as well but mine is modded. At first I liked the LP more, but now the FA-10 is starting to come into its own and is quickly becoming my go to amp. The mods on the LP does make it a close contest when it comes to musical delivery, but the FA-10 is just special in what it does.


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## Wesley88

Would love to hear the Soloist compared to the FA-10/12.


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## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> I have the LP as well but mine is modded. At first I liked the LP more, but now the FA-10 is starting to come into its own and is quickly becoming my go to amp. The mods on the LP does make it a close contest when it comes to musical delivery, but the FA-10 is just special in what it does.



Well, if the FA-10 seems to be gaining ground over the LP, then I hope it does not wind up making the latter completely unlistenable to you after a few hundred hours of burn-in and head time.


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## gancanjam (Sep 30, 2020)

MIR05LAV said:


> Not that I have heard any of them, but had a chat yesterday with Fluxlab.
> Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs. Used to have Burson C3XP, and while I loved the huge scene, great separation and incredible layering and details, it was a tiny bit fatiguing for me, especially when listening a bit louder. My headphones are ZMF-s Eikons. Hope they dont mind if I copy it here:
> 
> me: (...) _I was thinking about lamp amplifier, but maybe a bit warmer solid stade would be good enough   Lamps tend to lose some impact with faster genres .._
> ...



"Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs", seems Flux support recommended FA-10 for this need of yours, that's a right  recommendation from Flux.

You had a question on FCN-10 with inbuilt DAC Vs FA-10,  I have FCN-10.  In short go with FA-10 and get an external DAC of your preference, FCN-10 inbuilt DAC sounds similar to FA-10 so adds an extra layer of FA-10 characteristics i.e. more smoothness to the sound,  treble is more buttery with certain HPs,  instruments is not present on the face but gently away, other DAC can dig out more details than in built DAC, a meaty/refined/in offensive still fun presentation is what you get from FCN-10. So if you want more of FA-10, then FCN-10 is still a good choice but all else go with external DAC.

One main reason i use in built DAC in FCN-10 is more forgiving even with Youtube videos and low res songs which i listen to from 1980s/90s and international music, i do not use in built DAC for any other purpose.

My friend listened to FA-10 with the holy grail DAC Chord Dave last week, he seem to like it and says FA-10 scales well to a good extent

It depends on your HPs also, what HP you use ?


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## MIR05LAV

gancanjam said:


> It depends on your HPs also, what HP you use ?


Thanks a lot for the answer! It explains me a lot have ordered just an amp and will try to find some good but not to expensive DAC for now. 
Will always have a chance to upgrade  
My headphones are ZMF Eikons. 
Cheers!


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## gancanjam

MIR05LAV said:


> Thanks a lot for the answer! It explains me a lot have ordered just an amp and will try to find some good but not to expensive DAC for now.
> Will always have a chance to upgrade
> My headphones are ZMF Eikons.
> Cheers!



Have never listened to RME or Topping D90 DACs but the community seem to love it for relatively inexpensive but solid option and to pair with FA-10. The $650 you sink into FCN-10 DAC you can sink into either of those DACs. All the best


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## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Well, if the FA-10 seems to be gaining ground over the LP, then I hope it does not wind up making the latter completely unlistenable to you after a few hundred hours of burn-in and head time.


The LP still beats in painting a 3D holographic image and spaciousness. That’s one of the magic of tubes. The LP also can match the bass impact, slam and midrange presence with the right tubes. So it’s a nice change of pace amp with crazy power as well. Mainly in part because the gain is set so high on the LP with no way to control it without using a DAC with controllable output. So I still enjoy it And it’s not going anywhere.


----------



## Terriero

gancanjam said:


> Have never listened to RME or Topping D90 DACs but the community seem to love it for relatively inexpensive but solid option and to pair with FA-10. The $650 you sink into FCN-10 DAC you can sink into either of those DACs. All the best


I'm in Miro5lav same quest. I'm deciding between FA10 and FA12 and want a separate DAC. Now I have an Asus Xonar Essence One and I want to upgrade it because I think it does not do justice to my T1 rev3 and my HD 800 and I want to get their "full" potential.

I can order RME ADI2 for 975 € in Thomann, but I do not consider to EQ my HPs... Do you know another similar DAC in the same price range (or cheaper)?

Thanks.


----------



## gancanjam (Sep 30, 2020)

Terriero said:


> I'm in Miro5lav same quest. I'm deciding between FA10 and FA12 and want a separate DAC. Now I have an Asus Xonar Essence One and I want to upgrade it because I think it does not do justice to my T1 rev3 and my HD 800 and I want to get their "full" potential.
> 
> I can order RME ADI2 for 975 € in Thomann, but I do not consider to EQ my HPs... Do you know another similar DAC in the same price range (or cheaper)?
> 
> Thanks.



Topping D90 or Schitt Bifrost 2 have good reviews in that price range but many prefers Topping D90, it is clean, neutral, resolving and you dont want a colored DAC so just  leave all the colors a.k.a. sound signature addition to the amplifier.  I have listened to Denafrips Ares 2 but did not liked the sound. If you like Chord sound then buy an used one which may be more than $1000 but if you bite that extra few hundreds it may work for you,  I liked Hugo 2 for IEMs/portability but not for full size HPs , Other option is to find an used Chord Qutest and have seen it coming up for $1100 to $1500.

My choice will a new RME, used RME do not get much discounts, sellers buy it for $1100 new to use it for 2 years and sell it for $950 and people still buy it  as soon at is posted so you are better off getting a new RME or used Qutest. If you dont get either then Topping D90 is a good choice.

But please do research on these DACs or better, try to listen to it before making a decision.

BTW have listened to FA-10 & HD800, it sounds good especially it offsets all treble peaks of HD800


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## gancanjam

sahmen said:


> This is interesting and informative. Thanks.  What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power. I find it interesting that Flux Labs like to hit one upfront with the Fa 10's 16 watts into 32 ohms credentials and yet opts to remain silent on the exact specs of the Fa-12.  I am not necessarily saying that there is some conspiracy or something fishy going on...  I just want to be sure whether the Fa 12 can muster the same muscle in output wattage as the Fa 10 when handling loads that are more difficult than typical, in situations where each last watt counts,  such as the He6SE or the Susvara.  So far, I do not see anything I do not like in your description of either amp.  However, these extremely hard to drive cans can always bring some sonic differences to the table, if it should turn out that the output power of one amp (e.g. the 10), significantly exceeds that of the other (e.g. the 12).  That is why i want to make sure the 12 is not under-spec'ed in this particular area.



That's a good point, power is a differentiator here as many tend to overlook this


----------



## adydula

Hello,

I have been chatting with Flux and they were quick to respond to my questions.

One question I have is are these amp direct or cap coupled?

Which may or may not help attribute to the differing sounds?

Thanks
Alex


----------



## MIR05LAV

There is another AK4499-based DAC with qute a good reviews. Maybe worth trying this one? 
https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/gustard-a18-dac-review-outstanding-performance-and-value/


----------



## cfranchi

What about Flux DAC proposal ? If I’m not wrong I have read on this forum that they are studying a standalone DAC.


----------



## jaker782

Well, given that I just found out I am expected to return to the office full time starting next week, my desktop rig listening will be greatly reduced.  If you want to pick up an FA-10 for a good price, send me a message and I might bite.  I am leaning towards selling and downgrading to a more budget friendly option since I will primarily be using my portable rig more while working.


----------



## xcom

jaker782 said:


> Well, given that I just found out I am expected to return to the office full time starting next week, my desktop rig listening will be greatly reduced.  If you want to pick up an FA-10 for a good price, send me a message and I might bite.  I am leaning towards selling and downgrading to a more budget friendly option since I will primarily be using my portable rig more while working.



Sent you a PM.


----------



## cfranchi

Anyone has tried HD800s with FA-10 ?

I guess that the « tube » sound of the FA-10 would be a great pairing but that is just assumptions.


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## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Anyone has tried HD800s with FA-10 ?
> 
> I guess that the « tube » sound of the FA-10 would be a great pairing but that is just assumptions.


I have a pair of HD800S’s coming with the next couple of weeks. I’ll report back on the pairing. I’m looking forward to hearing them on my FA-10.


----------



## rmsanger

Still waiting patiently on an update for the volot along with specs, pricing, and reviews... I've got a few decent opportunities to buy near hifi level balanced amps for my Phi TCs and just was holding out for the Volot.   I may not be able to wait much longer though...


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Waiting as well. Depends on the size factor though. Atlas was too big for me. Hoping Volot will not. But the preliminary designs says otherwise. Will see.


----------



## rmsanger

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Waiting as well. Depends on the size factor though. Atlas was too big for me. Hoping Volot will not. But the preliminary designs says otherwise. Will see.



I want it to be big and beefy with huge quality components and a large set of heat sinks.  the bigger the better for this class a beauty.


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## teknorob23 (Oct 11, 2020)

jaker782 said:


> It is great we are getting some additional impressions of these amps!  However, it appears we have some conflicting info here based on the above posts.  Is the FA-10 the warmer amp with a more tube-like presentation or is it the FA-12?  I am not saying either of the above impressions is wrong as we all hear things differently, just trying to sort this out so potential buyers can make a better informed decision.



I wouldn’t say either amp is particularly tubelike. Fa12 is a few degrees warmer than fa10, which it’s self is just on the warm side of neutral. I’m not sure how useful “tubelike” is as descriptor, much like “reference” and “musical” it means different things to different people, both positive and negative. My experiences of tube amps such feliks audio euforia and Auris’s Amps are which probably wouldn’t be described as “tubelike” by many, as they are fairly neutral, precise and very resolving with a lot of similarities to good Ss amps on that front. The main difference for me however is Headroom, stage width, depth, Texture and a greater sense of space around the instruments which creates a genuinely holographic 3D image. Then theres old school tube amps which can sound syrupy sweet with bloated leaky bass.

Neither of these 2 amps to my ears at least share these traits good or bad.

having been lucky enough to listen to both at length. The main differences as I initially mentioned are down the varriance in warmth which seems to dictate the key characteristics of the each amp. The 12 being warmer has a fuller sound, slower but perhaps more natural decay on the bass, more lushness in the mids and slightly sweeter treble. These traits are slight and not at the cost of transparency, definition, accuracy or dynamics. The 10 on the other hand while still warmer than neutral,  is thinner/ cleaner feels perhaps a little quicker with more air Around the notes, bass decay is quicker mids sound accurate tonally, but again these are important factors but not at the cost the dreaded “musicality”. Neither amp is an analytical tool like the a90, both are musical instruments in their own right, which is what makes them some beguiling and addictive to listen to. They just offer slightly different filters, applied consistently to everything you listen to with them.

obviously we all have different references, music tastes and ways of describing what we hear, but hopefully by reading the whole thread you will find some pretty consistent themes and findings. The different subtleties of each listener reported experiences are kind of what make this hobby so enjoyable, perhaps that’s just me


----------



## Terriero

Does somebody know if Volot will include preamp?


----------



## gancanjam

cfranchi said:


> Anyone has tried HD800s with FA-10 ?
> 
> I guess that the « tube » sound of the FA-10 would be a great pairing but that is just assumptions.



I used to have HD800 which i sold it, what i didn't liked about HD800 are it's rough treble, little leaner sound, for many the bass in HD800 would have been satisfactory but not for me.

Last month i borrowed HD800 for 2 weeks and listened with FCN-10/FA-10, good pairing ! sound stage was still wide, treble was still plenty but much more enjoyable, bit more musical and though it didn't boost the Bass much, it was tad more present with FA-10. Overall, HD800 pairing was good and i was doing longer listening with this setup.

I have never listened to HD800S though but what i recalled on my earlier discussions with it's owners were, HD800S has similar DNA as HD800 but with more warmer & musical tone, if that's the case then i am guessing HD800S & FA-10 will also be a good pairing.


----------



## funkur (Oct 12, 2020)

Fuse update: The Hifi Tuning Supreme 2A Fast is working just fine in the FA-10.  While the sonic improvement is not as drastic as the SR Orange, it’s less than a 1/3 of the price and actually reliable!  In my Sboosters, I’d say the performance is comparable to the SR Blue fuses - based on memory.

In case members in the US are interested to know: Hifi Tuning fuses are a bit cheaper when purchasing from UK/EU even with shipping.  MusicDirect has the FA-10 size fuse on sale for $60 if you prefer a domestic source, otherwise, they list at $75 elsewhere.  I paid $145 including shipping for 3 from Analog Seduction in the UK.  They took less than a week to arrive.


----------



## Slim1970

funkur said:


> Fuse update: The Hifi Tuning Supreme 2A Fast is working just fine in the FA-10.  While the sonic improvement is not as drastic as the SR Orange, it’s less than a 1/3 of the price and actually reliable!  In my Sboosters, I’d say the performance is comparable to the SR Blue fuses - based on memory.
> 
> In case members in the US are interested to know: Hifi Tuning fuses are a bit cheaper when purchasing from UK/EU even with shipping.  MusicDirect has the FA-10 size fuse on sale for $60 if you prefer a domestic source, otherwise, they list at $75 elsewhere.  I paid $145 including shipping for 3 from Analog Seduction in the UK.  They took less than a week to arrive.


Does a fuse have that great of impact on the sound of the FA-10?


----------



## funkur

Slim1970 said:


> Does a fuse have that great of impact on the sound of the FA-10?


I feel that it’s lowering the noise floor and providing a more coherent and 3D image. I haven’t switched back to stock yet to compare as I’m just reaching 100 or so hours of burn in on the new fuse.  But I will do the A/B soon.

What I can definitely tell you though is in between my days of not having an upgraded fuse, my wife commented that I didn’t seem interested in listening to my head-fi setup anymore, lol.  The difference between the SR orange fuse and stock was huge...


----------



## Slim1970

funkur said:


> I feel that it’s lowering the noise floor and providing a more coherent and 3D image. I haven’t switched back to stock yet to compare as I’m just reaching 100 or so hours of burn in on the new fuse.  But I will do the A/B soon.
> 
> What I can definitely tell you though is in between my days of not having an upgraded fuse, my wife commented that I didn’t seem interested in listening to my head-fi setup anymore, lol.  The difference between the SR orange fuse and stock was huge...


That’s a pretty big statement as it seems the fuse is adding some improvements to the sound. I might have to try one to see if I hear any changes, thanks!


----------



## gancanjam

gancanjam said:


> I used to have HD800 which i sold it, what i didn't liked about HD800 are it's rough treble, little leaner sound, for many the bass in HD800 would have been satisfactory but not for me.
> 
> Last month i borrowed HD800 for 2 weeks and listened with FCN-10/FA-10, good pairing ! sound stage was still wide, treble was still plenty but much more enjoyable, bit more musical and though it didn't boost the Bass much, it was tad more present with FA-10. Overall, HD800 pairing was good and i was doing longer listening with this setup.
> 
> I have never listened to HD800S though but what i recalled on my earlier discussions with it's owners were, HD800S has similar DNA as HD800 but with more warmer & musical tone, if that's the case then i am guessing HD800S & FA-10 will also be a good pairing.



I liked FA-10 with most HPs including Abyss 1266, HD800, HE1000 and the only HP pairing i did not liked is Utopia. Now with my new Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD which to me is an upgrade to FA-10, it sounds great with most HPs especially with Utopia but not with HE1000. So guess i cannot discard FCN-10/FA-10 now but have to keep it for HE1000. Seems there is nothing like One shoe fits all in Audiophile world


----------



## funkur

Slim1970 said:


> That’s a pretty big statement as it seems the fuse is adding some improvements to the sound. I might have to try one to see if I hear any changes, thanks!



After doing the A/B, I can absolutely recommend the improvement the fuse makes.  Definitely lowers the noise floor and really lets the music shine through.  At $50-60, it's a great upgrade in tandem with a nice power cable.  I plan to order some more for other home and car amps I have.

I had read that these fuses are directional.  At least in my case, the little arrow is pointing away from the IEC inlet.  The other way sounds like some tube harmonic distortion coupled with a smaller soundstage.


----------



## Slim1970

funkur said:


> After doing the A/B, I can absolutely recommend the improvement the fuse makes.  Definitely lowers the noise floor and really lets the music shine through.  At $50-60, it's a great upgrade in tandem with a nice power cable.  I plan to order some more for other home and car amps I have.
> 
> I had read that these fuses are directional.  At least in my case, the little arrow is pointing away from the IEC inlet.  The other way sounds like some tube harmonic distortion coupled with a smaller soundstage.


Great info, I didn’t know about the directional arrow. I can’t wait to give it a try in my FA-10.


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> I liked FA-10 with most HPs including Abyss 1266, HD800, HE1000 and the only HP pairing i did not liked is Utopia. Now with my new Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD which to me is an upgrade to FA-10, it sounds great with most HPs especially with Utopia but not with HE1000. So guess i cannot discard FCN-10/FA-10 now but have to keep it for HE1000. Seems there is nothing like One shoe fits all in Audiophile world


I wish I still had my Utopia’s. They do like clean power. I found them great with the Hugo 2 and even the Gilmore Lite Mk2. I’m surprised the FA-10 doesn’t pair well with them. It’s a lot less colored than the Liquid Carbon 2.0 I previously owned and enjoyed the Utopia’s on as well.


----------



## adydula

I read on the facebook page that the ground on the AC input is not connected?

Is this accurate?

Something about if connected it might affect the "sound" ?

I thought the AC input ground is connected to the case for safety??

Am I mis-understanding this ?

Alex


----------



## funkur

That is correct, the ground is not attached. I don’t know why Flux chose that design, but its safe and not uncommon.

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/ungrounded/


----------



## elira

funkur said:


> That is correct, the ground is not attached. I don’t know why Flux chose that design, but its safe and not uncommon.
> 
> https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/ungrounded/


Regarding the ground, they told me:


> By default we use the same technology as finest Japanese devices like Esoteric the chassis is not connected to ground in the outlet. This method allows to obtain higher parameters and eliminates the possibility of a ground loop. But the grounding is necessary, especially on the signal source side.
> 
> Our device are safe, they are utilize varistor protection.
> 
> By the request, we can connect GND wire (but that may reflect on the sound).


----------



## adydula

Understand what your saying, but do these products meet UL safety sandards then????

Alex


----------



## funkur

adydula said:


> Understand what your saying, but do these products meet UL safety sandards then????
> 
> Alex



Likely not UL listed. Possibly CE as that’s more common in Europe, but not mandatory in Ukraine to my knowledge.  If that’s important to you, then I’d stay away from a tiny manufacturer like Flux and go with Schiit or someone more established in the US market.

Complete side note - I’ve imported Italian restaurant equipment - wood burning ovens, dough mixers, etc for my pizzerias and had to get them UL/NSF certified on site. It’s a pain in the ass, but you make minor changes (never electrical), they give you the fancy sticker and then they take their inflated check to the bank.


----------



## adydula (Oct 14, 2020)

Having electrical devices without this safety ground might be an issue. If the case is metal and a 110vac hot wire comes in contact with the case then the case becomes "hot" per say and if u touch the case and are grounded current could flow and you could be shocked or worse IMO.

The neutral or return in houses is connected to earth ground back at the power entry panel on most houses in the US. But this goes back thru the circuit breaker. And if for some reason its not connected back at the power panel (not all homes are wired correctly) this issue could be worse. again IMO.

In some products without the "ground" being used or connected, the cases are usually "Plastic" or the internal power wiring is doubled insulated to help prevent input voltage from touching the metal case.

I am not an expert just want to make sure there is "protection" built in to this product. Varistor etc??

Thanks
Alex


----------



## GU1DO

jaker782 said:


> Well, if you are pairing with something like the HE-6se or Susvara, it seems to me the FA-10 is definitely the way to go (unless you want to wait for the Volot) despite the FA-10 not being balanced.  Even if the FA-12 running balanced does okay with those hard to drive cans, the FA-10 even single ended should do better as 16W vs. 2.6W into 32 ohms is a huge difference, regardless of balanced vs. single ended topology.
> 
> PS.  I am using the FA-10 to drive my HE-6se, and feel it does a wonderful job!  I prefer it to the balanced Liquid Platinum, which is more powerful than the FA-12.


any infor regarding the  Volot  ?


----------



## Terriero (Oct 21, 2020)

@Slim1970, have you tried the HD 800s in the FA10?

And one more thing, are you still enjoying your Z1R with FA 10? If you still use them with that amp.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Slim1970

Terriero said:


> @Slim1970, have you tried the HD 800s in the FA10?
> 
> And one more thing, are you still enjoying your Z1R with FA 10? If you still use them with that amp.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I haven‘t received my HD800’s yet. I just got notice from the dealership yesterday that my trades where good to go. Now I have a small balance to pay. I traded in my LCD-X’s and Focal Elegia for them. As neither set was getting much listening time. I’ll have them soon now that everything is finalized.

The Z1R’s are sounding phenomenal on the FA-10. Love the pairing.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> I haven‘t received my HD800’s yet. I just got notice from the dealership yesterday that my trades where good to go. Now I have a small balance to pay. I traded in my LCD-X’s and Focal Elegia for them. As neither set was getting much listening time. I’ll have them soon now that everything is finalized.
> 
> The Z1R’s are sounding phenomenal on the FA-10. Love the pairing.



Obvs not identitcal but similar, the hd820s sound great with f10, where as the ether c flow 1.1s sound better on the fa12 and have become my go to pairing


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I haven‘t received my HD800’s yet. I just got notice from the dealership yesterday that my trades where good to go. Now I have a small balance to pay. I traded in my LCD-X’s and Focal Elegia for them. As neither set was getting much listening time. I’ll have them soon now that everything is finalized.
> 
> The Z1R’s are sounding phenomenal on the FA-10. Love the pairing.



I’m nearly ready to pull the trigger on the HD800s, I’m also interested to read your thoughts about 800s and FA-10


----------



## rmsanger

GU1DO said:


> any infor regarding the  Volot  ?



I think I can no longer wait for the Volot as I likely need to move on for a GSX mkii / GSX Mini, or Moon 430 instead.  I need a near TOTL amp for my 1266's for Christmas break and the Volot likely won't be available with credible reviews by then at this point.


----------



## PoSR77

Looking intensely at the FA-10, FA-12, and FA-12S for pairing with my Auteurs. 

I like that you can choose face plate color with the 12s, but I'm worried that it and the regular 12 might be too warm or not dynamic/exciting/driving enough. Basically I want a SS sound with just some smoothness, warmth, or cohesion to color the sound so it doesn't sound clinical. 

I'll contact Flux later to get some advice.


----------



## Wesley88

PoSR77 said:


> Looking intensely at the FA-10, FA-12, and FA-12S for pairing with my Auteurs.
> 
> I like that you can choose face plate color with the 12s, but I'm worried that it and the regular 12 might be too warm or not dynamic/exciting/driving enough. Basically I want a SS sound with just some smoothness, warmth, or cohesion to color the sound so it doesn't sound clinical.
> 
> I'll contact Flux later to get some advice.



I have the FA-12 with a Bifrost 2 and Eikons. Sounds great.


----------



## driftingbunnies

PoSR77 said:


> Looking intensely at the FA-10, FA-12, and FA-12S for pairing with my Auteurs.
> 
> I like that you can choose face plate color with the 12s, but I'm worried that it and the regular 12 might be too warm or not dynamic/exciting/driving enough. Basically I want a SS sound with just some smoothness, warmth, or cohesion to color the sound so it doesn't sound clinical.
> 
> I'll contact Flux later to get some advice.



If you email Flux, they will let you change the face plate to whatever color you would like. It's available to any of the FA amps.


----------



## PoSR77

driftingbunnies said:


> If you email Flux, they will let you change the face plate to whatever color you would like. It's available to any of the FA amps.



You know, I actually wondered about that just a bit ago because those amps look the same size, but I only saw the color option on the FA-12S. 

Yea, going to check with them and then probably order the FA-10. Thanks!


----------



## PoSR77

Wesley88 said:


> I have the FA-12 with a Bifrost 2 and Eikons. Sounds great.



I don't think I could go wrong with any of those amps, but I'm leaning towards playing it safer with the FA-10. 

We'll see. Thanks for the input!


----------



## teknorob23

PoSR77 said:


> I don't think I could go wrong with any of those amps, but I'm leaning towards playing it safer with the FA-10.
> 
> We'll see. Thanks for the input!



I dont think you can go wrong either. My personal preference is for FA12 but not because it was technically better i just preferred the greater bass presence and fuller mids. Definiton and dynamics-wise they're pretty even match, its just the 12 has the x-factor over other SS amps i've owned or heard. What HPs are you looking to pair?


----------



## cfranchi

PoSR77 said:


> Looking intensely at the FA-10, FA-12, and FA-12S for pairing with my Auteurs.
> 
> I like that you can choose face plate color with the 12s, but I'm worried that it and the regular 12 might be too warm or not dynamic/exciting/driving enough. Basically I want a SS sound with just some smoothness, warmth, or cohesion to color the sound so it doesn't sound clinical.
> 
> I'll contact Flux later to get some advice.



Then FA-10


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Obvs not identitcal but similar, the hd820s sound great with f10, where as the ether c flow 1.1s sound better on the fa12 and have become my go to pairing


Yes, I owned the HD820's for a period. Loved the tonality of them. I'm not familiar with any of the Dan Clark Audio gear except the Ether 2's. I find your amp pairings for the two headphones interesting. The HD800S's are really similar in sound to the HD820's. The HD820's are slightly warmer and slightly bassier than the HD800's. This could be why you prefer the HD820's on the FA-10 because it's a little brighter possibly. This leads be think that the FA-12 is infusing some warmth into the Ether C Flow 1.1's and might be what the HD800S's need. I need to hear the FA-12.

This will actually be my 2nd go around with the HD800S's. I find the FA-10 to offer the very nice blend of warmth and technical abilities with all of my headphones. Talking with Vitaliy, he said I needed both the FA-12 and FA-10, lol. He just might be right. I do have a modded LP for extra warmth and detail if needed. The FA-10 does edge the out LP in detail, dynamics. The LP brings a wider soundstage and holographic imaging. With the right tubes it can bring the bass slam and meaty midrange similar to the FA-10 as well. Both are great amps and yet I'm still interested in the FA-12.


----------



## Slim1970

PoSR77 said:


> Looking intensely at the FA-10, FA-12, and FA-12S for pairing with my Auteurs.
> 
> I like that you can choose face plate color with the 12s, but I'm worried that it and the regular 12 might be too warm or not dynamic/exciting/driving enough. Basically I want a SS sound with just some smoothness, warmth, or cohesion to color the sound so it doesn't sound clinical.
> 
> I'll contact Flux later to get some advice.


I second what @cfranchi said about going with the FA-10 if those are the characteristics you're looking for in an amp. The FA-10 is all of those things and more. I previously owned the Auteurs and although they are somewhat neutral sounding they have quite a bit of bass and midrange presence. I think the FA-10 will do well to open them up a bit while maintaining what makes the Auteurs such great headphones. I also think the FA-10 will have iron grip on the drivers as well.


----------



## Slim1970

funkur said:


> Fuse update: The Hifi Tuning is working just fine in the FA-10.  While the sonic improvement is not as drastic as the SR Orange, it’s less than a 1/3 of the price and actually reliable!  In my Sboosters, I’d say the performance is comparable to the SR Blue fuses - based on memory.
> 
> In case members in the US are interested to know: Hifi Tuning fuses are a bit cheaper when purchasing from UK/EU even with shipping.  MusicDirect has the FA-10 size fuse on sale for $60 if you prefer a domestic source, otherwise, they list at $75 elsewhere.  I paid $145 including shipping for 3 from Analog Seduction in the UK.  They took less than a week to arrive.


@funkur I just popped in the Hifi Tuning Supreme 2A fast blow fuse in my FA-10 and to my surprise the increase in overall clarity is noticeable right away. I can confirm the background is blacker because the sound of the FA-10 is clearer, cleaner, and more resolving. Notes sounds a little crisper and more precise while keeping everything else pretty much the same on the FA-10. It's a nice tweak to an already impressive amp. The FA-10 now sound more refined, it's amazing really.


----------



## PoSR77

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful input. 

I contacted Flux so I'll see what info/advice they give me and then I'll report back with it.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> @funkur I just popped in the Hifi Tuning Supreme 2A fast blow fuse in my FA-10 and to my surprise the increase in overall clarity is noticeable right away. I can confirm the background is blacker because the sound of the FA-10 is clearer, cleaner, and more resolving. Notes sounds a little crisper and more precise while keeping everything else pretty much the same on the FA-10. It's a nice tweak to an already impressive amp. The FA-10 now sound more refined, it's amazing really.



 Did you notice these improvements straight out of the box, because i've always found fuses to take a good month or so before they come on song. These seem like a real bargain compared to synergistic research, so i tempted to give it go. Sorry i'm being lazy, but please could you share the spec/size of the fuse that you've bought. thanks


----------



## Slim1970 (Oct 23, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> Did you notice these improvements straight out of the box, because i've always found fuses to take a good month or so before they come on song. These seem like a real bargain compared to synergistic research, so i tempted to give it go. Sorry i'm being lazy, but please could you share the spec/size of the fuse that you've bought. thanks


Yes it was noticeable right away to my ears. I could detect some liveliness in the transients and a darker background right out of the box. The Hifi Tuning Fuse I got is the 2A version of this one:

https://www.musicdirect.com/fuses/hifi-tuning-fuses-supreme-small-fast

I think it's a nice tweak and I expect it to only get better sounding with burn-in. It has a silver core with gold coating. I expected it to add some brightness based on that alone. It did in the right spots to really clean up the signal.


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> Yes it was noticeable right away to my ears. I could detect some liveliness in the transients and a darker background right out of the box. The Hifi Tuning Fuse I got is the 2A version of this one:
> 
> https://www.musicdirect.com/fuses/hifi-tuning-fuses-supreme-small-fast
> 
> ...



Is the 2A fast blow also the specs of the stock fuse in the FA-10 or are you "upping the ante" on the specs?  I have some synergistic research orange and blue fuses that I have been afraid to use in part because I have been too lazy to try them, but also partly because of what I have read here about fuses getting blown etc. etc.  I have managed to install a couple of SR Blues in my Metrum Ambre, and there too the results were immediately palpable, but that's just about it. I might try one of these Hifi tuning fuses on the FA-10 as a "dry run" and see how it goes.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> Yes it was noticeable right away to my ears. I could detect some liveliness in the transients and a darker background right out of the box. The Hifi Tuning Fuse I got is the 2A version of this one:
> 
> https://www.musicdirect.com/fuses/hifi-tuning-fuses-supreme-small-fast
> 
> I think it's a nice tweak and I expect it to only get better sounding with burn-in. It has a silver core with gold coating. I expected it to add some brightness based on that alone. It did in the right spots to really clean up the signal.



Thanks for this and i've just ordered one, cant wait to hear how it goes in FA12. I've also having owned and sold Denafrips pontus all within the same 24hrs, hearing enough to know i needed to go the nearly the whole hog, i've pulled the trigger on a new Denafrips Venus 2 DAC, so i cant wait to hear how this fairs with the 12 too. I think i now need to go and sit in dark room, with my credit card on ice for a while.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Is the 2A fast blow also the specs of the stock fuse in the FA-10 or are you "upping the ante" on the specs?  I have some synergistic research orange and blue fuses that I have been afraid to use in part because I have been too lazy to try them, but also partly because of what I have read here about fuses getting blown etc. etc.  I have managed to install a couple of SR Blues in my Metrum Ambre, and there too the results were immediately palpable, but that's just about it. I might try one of these Hifi tuning fuses on the FA-10 as a "dry run" and see how it goes.


The original fuse is 2 amps so it’s not an arbitrary number. @funkur has tried the SR orange fuses and they all blew. The Hifi Tuning fuse I have in mine seems to be holding steady at this point. Plus, I like what I’m hearing with the FA-10 pairing.


----------



## sahmen (Oct 23, 2020)

sahmen said:


> I am personally quite interested in how well the FA-10 does detail, especially detail at the top-end, but also in bass texture. I have been stricken by how often the FA-10 is placed on the side of "smooth" and "musical," as opposed to, say, the Topping A90, or even Flux Labs own FA-10 pro, which are placed in the "analytical," "dry," maybe "neutral" department, or in any case characterized as probably too revealing for their own good, for showing all the "pimples and warts" of badly recorded material.
> 
> Well, in theory, "smooth" and "musical" sound good to me, and the Flux Labs guy I chatted with at length on facebook "diagnosed" me, almost instantly, upon hearing about my DACs and other components of choice, as being an FA-10 as opposed to FA-10 Pro guy. What concerns me, though, is how much detail, if any, gets lost in all that "smoothness" and "musicality" the FA-10 fans have been talking about.  I do like detail, but without any harshness or fatigue, just like my HeKSE or Audeze LCD-4 cans handle detail and texture, but especially, without any feeling that some important dimension of detail has been sacrificed in some kind of roll-off in order to enhance that smoothness. I wish I could hear the FA-10 and the pro version or the Topping A90 in order to make a determination for myself, but since that seems impossible right now, I shall defer to the ears and judgment of forum members who have heard the two approaches. Muchas gracias.



For what it's worth, I am into about 2 weeks of owning the FA-10, and am glad to report that all the above concerns have melted away, or actually proved to be quite unjustified. The FA-10 is that kind of 2 faced "monster (in a good way) which manages to summon a lot of grunt and "meat" from the low end without sacrificing any of the ethereal and delicate touches in detail, at both ends of the spectrum...

What is more, for eight consecutive days now, it has been tangoing, waltzing,  foxtrotting, swinging, even doing the cha cha and rumba with my Susvara without missing a beat, and I can't adequately describe what a rich dancing feast for the ears it all has been.

I am still learning how to take it all in, and looking for the words to describe the experience properly... So back to more listening.


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Thanks for this and i've just ordered one, cant wait to hear how it goes in FA12. I've also having owned and sold Denafrips pontus all within the same 24hrs, hearing enough to know i needed to go the nearly the whole hog, i've pulled the trigger on a new Denafrips Venus 2 DAC, so i cant wait to hear how this fairs with the 12 too. I think i now need to go and sit in dark room, with my credit card on ice for a while.


Nice, I see you really like a warm, engaging, musical, yet detailed sound. I’ve never heard an R2R DAC. @sahmen enjoys the Sonnet Digital Audio Morpheus and I’ve been researching it and I’m very tempted to sell my RME and pick one up. I have a TT2 with an HMS on the way and it‘s starting to pull away from the RME, which is a nice DAC in its own right. Switching back and forth with the FA-10 as the amp, the differences between the TT2 and RME are clearly audible. The gap has widen since installing the Hifi Tuning Fuse as I’m able to hear a lot more details in the sound as transparency and resolution levels got bumped up since installing it.

Honestly, I wasn’t expecting to hear any change with something as small as fuse swap. I‘m skeptical as they come about such things. Since I’ve been so disappointed by so many hi end amps before getting my FA-10. What I got was a pleasant surprise and a more refined sounding amp. Now it’s even more competitive with upper tier offerings. Who would’ve thunk it....thanks @funkur with getting the fun started!


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> For what it's worth, I am into about 2 weeks of owning the FA-10, and am glad to report that all the above concerns have melted away, or actually proved to be quite unjustified. The FA-10 is that kind of 2 faced "monster (in a good way) which manages to summon a lot of grunt and "meat" from the low end without sacrificing any of the ethereal and delicate touches in detail, at both ends of the spectrum...
> 
> What is more, for eight consecutive days now, it has been tangoing, waltzing,  foxtrotting, swinging, even doing the cha cha and rumba with my Susvara without missing a beat, and I can't adequately describe what a rich dancing feast for the ears it all has been.
> 
> I am still learning how to take it all in, and looking for the words to describe the experience properly... So back to more listening.


I’m so glad you are enjoying your FA-10 with your Susvara’s as I am. Cheers my friend


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> I’m so glad you are enjoying your FA-10 with your Susvara’s as I am. Cheers my friend


How are you liking them with your 1266s?  Is the FA-10 detailed enough to drive them appropriately?  I’ve heard mixed feedback in that it’s decent to barely sufficient to excellent.

The general consensus with the 1266 Phi Tc is that you need a Mini GSX at minimum and a Moon 430 or Xi formulas S are recommended.


----------



## gancanjam (Oct 23, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> How are you liking them with your 1266s?  Is the FA-10 detailed enough to drive them appropriately?  I’ve heard mixed feedback in that it’s decent to barely sufficient to excellent.
> 
> The general consensus with the 1266 Phi Tc is that you need a Mini GSX at minimum and a Moon 430 or Xi formulas S are recommended.



You have narrowed down the Amp list for TOTL HP Abyss 1266 and those are great Amp choices for TC! I am guessing you are at the cross roads to make an Amp decision but probably gone past the phase of reading reviews anymore  With where you are, it will be better to listen to the amps you have described, may be you should go to the respective Amp forums to stalk users  who are from your area and see if you can listen in. I do that often, people are very receptive to my PMs for a 1:1 meet up and have gained many Head Fi friends in my area.

Have listened to Abyss 1226 TC with both Moon 430 & FA-10 but not side by side so refreshing from my memory, my take is, FA-10 is good enough for TC but you can do better with other three (not sure about GSX mini as an upgrade though with its 4W power) Amps you mentioned, I have not listened to Xi audio or GSX mini  and can only this say based on Moon 430.

FA-10 is not easy to audition but GSX / Xi Audio / Moon 430 audition may be easier in your area. Since Abyss 1266 is TOTL, it is better to take some time to make the right choice. So here is what i would have done personally,

1) Scenario 1: Audition one or some of GSX / Xi Audio / Moon 430 , if i don't like it then at least i can knock it off from the short list
2) Scenario 2: Audition one or some of GSX / Xi Audio / Moon 430 , if I like it then at least i can think about buying it
3) Scenario 3: If i am  unable to audition either of the three, then get FA-10 for $750 for now, use it for 3 to 6 months until i find an upgrade then sell FA-10 for even $500 so will make a small $250 loss for the Amp usage of 3 to 6 months

All the best !


----------



## rmsanger

gancanjam said:


> You have narrowed down the Amp list for TOTL HP Abyss 1266 and those are great Amp choices for TC! I am guessing you are at the cross roads to make an Amp decision but probably gone past the phase of reading reviews anymore  With where you are, it will be better to listen to the amps you have described, may be you should go to the respective Amp forums to stalk users  who are from your area and see if you can listen in. I do that often, people are very receptive to my PMs for a 1:1 meet up and have gained many Head Fi friends in my area.
> 
> Have listened to Abyss 1226 TC with both Moon 430 & FA-10 but not side by side so refreshing from my memory, my take is, FA-10 is good enough for TC but you can do better with other three (not sure about GSX mini as an upgrade though with its 4W power) Amps you mentioned, I have not listened to Xi audio or GSX mini  and can only this say based on Moon 430.
> 
> ...



Not much of an option to audition in my area (SLC) either the GSX/XI/Moon so it would be a leap of faith purchase of headfi forums.   GSX mini went for $1300 recently,  GSX mkii probably get for $1600, and moon will be $2k ish used.  

There are a few cheapish options cayin iha-6 ($650) burson soloist 3xp ($1k), and the flux ($600ish used).   I'm getting a bit tired of messing around with midfi options but def would prefer to not have to spend crazy $ chasing perfection.   My other options is to just use speaker taps on an a traditional amp and be done with it.


----------



## gancanjam (Oct 23, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Not much of an option to audition in my area (SLC) either the GSX/XI/Moon so it would be a leap of faith purchase of headfi forums.   GSX mini went for $1300 recently,  GSX mkii probably get for $1600, and moon will be $2k ish used.
> 
> There are a few cheapish options cayin iha-6 ($650) burson soloist 3xp ($1k), and the flux ($600ish used).   I'm getting a bit tired of messing around with midfi options but def would prefer to not have to spend crazy $ chasing perfection.   My other options is to just use speaker taps on an a traditional amp and be done with it.



SLC is Salt Lake city ? You are in luck if you are in Salt lake city!  in 40 miles drive you have Elevation Sight and Sound, LLC in Park city, UT who seem to carry Formula S Following is my comm. with them ( see below) so reach out to Paul. Let us know on your audition

Some more thoughts, GSX mini on paper will drive TC but TC needs much more head room IMO so MK2 will be better but MK2 as you know from reviews that it is thinner/brighter and i personally not a fan of that SS to pair with an HP like TC but YMMV.  I see Bifrost as your Mid Fi  DAC so do you have other DACs in mind  ?
you can buy Xiaudio but it may demand a better DAC than Bifrost so something to watch out so get your Bifrost for audition. i have listened to Moon 430 with inbuilt DAC (used one is $2500) and it sounds great even though reviewers says Moon in built DAC have an older chip.

As i said, Plan B is Bifrost > FA-10 > TC which is a good happy medium.

********** Elevation Sight, Park city UT response **********

_Thank you for the inquiry, and for visiting my website.   My name is Paul Jenkins, and I am the owner of Elevation Sight and Sound.

Yes, I do carry the Eleven Audio product line.

Where are you located?   Feel free to call in to discuss the specifics.

Your interest is appreciated.   Let me know how we can help.

Best regards,

Paul
____________________________
Paul Jenkins | Owner
*Elevation Sight and Sound, LLC*
(p) 435.602.3689 | (e) ElevationSightandSound@gmail.com
(w) elevationsightandsound.com_


----------



## rmsanger (Oct 23, 2020)

gancanjam said:


> SLC is Salt Lake city ? You are in luck if you are in Salt lake city!  in 40 miles drive you have Elevation Sight and Sound, LLC in Park city, UT who seem to carry Formula S Following is my comm. with them ( see below) so reach out to Paul. Let us know on your audition
> 
> Some more thoughts, GSX mini on paper will drive TC but TC needs much more head room IMO so MK2 will be better but MK2 as you know from reviews that it is thinner/brighter and i personally not a fan of that SS to pair with an HP like TC but YMMV.  I see Bifrost as your Mid Fi  DAC so do you have other DACs in mind  ?
> you can buy Xiaudio but it may demand a better DAC than Bifrost so something to watch out so get your Bifrost for audition. i have listened to Moon 430 with inbuilt DAC (used one is $2500) and it sounds great even though reviewers says Moon in built DAC have an older chip.
> ...



Yep haven’t updated my profile recently  but I’m very happy with my Dac now.

Thanks for the pc contact info!  I also agree that the GSX mk2 sound profile reviews give me pause.  I prefer the warm side of neutrality and not thin and bright.  Hence why i was initially interested in the Volot but have lost patience.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> How are you liking them with your 1266s?  Is the FA-10 detailed enough to drive them appropriately?  I’ve heard mixed feedback in that it’s decent to barely sufficient to excellent.
> 
> The general consensus with the 1266 Phi Tc is that you need a Mini GSX at minimum and a Moon 430 or Xi formulas S are recommended.


The first thing I recommend is to try those amps for yourself to see if synergy with the AB-1266 Phi TC's is what everyone says it is. I've tried those amps and although they are nice and do some things well, to my ears I'd still take the FA-10 over them. The FA-10 is great with the AB-1266 Phi TC's. There is no loss of detail and the FA-10 drives them with authority. The FA-10 has more power than all of the amps you mentioned. Not only is it powerful with plenty of drive, the FA-10 is also transparent so your upstream gear will play a big part of how you hear it. The FA-10 is also full sounding, with impactful, textured bass and weighted notes. It has a glorious midrange for a solid state amp and sweet treble that lets you turn up the volume without loss of clarity or detail. The background is black letting music come through. The addition of the Hifi Tuning fuse has made it even more resolving and improved the transient speed. 

I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by what the FA-10 can do and how musical it is. You get SOOO much amp for your money and to me it competes and gives up nothing to the amps on your list. There is nothing mid-fi about this amp despite it's price point. I'm listening to the TT2>>FA-10>>TC's as I type this and I can't imagine them sounding any better.


----------



## funkur

Slim1970 said:


> @funkur I just popped in the Hifi Tuning Supreme 2A fast blow fuse in my FA-10 and to my surprise the increase in overall clarity is noticeable right away. I can confirm the background is blacker because the sound of the FA-10 is clearer, cleaner, and more resolving. Notes sounds a little crisper and more precise while keeping everything else pretty much the same on the FA-10. It's a nice tweak to an already impressive amp. The FA-10 now sound more refined, it's amazing really.



Give the fuse about 200 hours to settle in, but yes, from the onset, it's a great upgrade!!!


----------



## funkur

Slim1970 said:


> Nice, I see you really like a warm, engaging, musical, yet detailed sound. I’ve never heard an R2R DAC. @sahmen enjoys the Sonnet Digital Audio Morpheus and I’ve been researching it and I’m very tempted to sell my RME and pick one up. I have a TT2 with an HMS on the way and it‘s starting to pull away from the RME, which is a nice DAC in its own right. Switching back and forth with the FA-10 as the amp, the differences between the TT2 and RME are clearly audible. The gap has widen since installing the Hifi Tuning Fuse as I’m able to hear a lot more details in the sound as transparency and resolution levels got bumped up since installing it.
> 
> Honestly, I wasn’t expecting to hear any change with something as small as fuse swap. I‘m skeptical as they come about such things. Since I’ve been so disappointed by so many hi end amps before getting my FA-10. What I got was a pleasant surprise and a more refined sounding amp. Now it’s even more competitive with upper tier offerings. Who would’ve thunk it....thanks @funkur with getting the fun started!



I am auditioning another DAC (from the RME as well) after the fuse upgrade.  When I compared the Qutest to the RME 2-3 months ago, I preferred the RME for it's detail and dynamics on headphones, but felt the Qutest would probably be best in a 2ch HiFi system.  

Haven't posted any impressions yet in that thread, but my experience with the R2R Musician Pegasus (the "controversial" one), has been phenomenal so far.  I popped some more HiFi tuning fuses in it (the copper Supreme3 version) and those are burning in along with new AES and XLR cables.  I'll get back to evaluating it in a week or two after visiting some family and friends (safely!) but it's likely a keeper for me and the RME will be relegated to my secondary headphone system.


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> The first thing I recommend is to try those amps for yourself to see if synergy with the AB-1266 Phi TC's is what everyone says it is. I've tried those amps and although they are nice and do some things well, to my ears I'd still take the FA-10 over them. The FA-10 is great with the AB-1266 Phi TC's. There is no loss of detail and the FA-10 drives them with authority. The FA-10 has more power than all of the amps you mentioned. Not only is it powerful with plenty of drive, the FA-10 is also transparent so your upstream gear will play a big part of how you hear it. The FA-10 is also full sounding, with impactful, textured bass and weighted notes. It has a glorious midrange for a solid state amp and sweet treble that lets you turn up the volume without loss of clarity or detail. The background is black letting music come through. The addition of the Hifi Tuning fuse has made it even more resolving and improved the transient speed.
> 
> I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by what the FA-10 can do and how musical it is. You get SOOO much amp for your money and to me it competes and gives up nothing to the amps on your list. There is nothing mid-fi about this amp despite it's price point. I'm listening to the TT2>>FA-10>>TC's as I type this and I can't imagine them sounding any better.



Thank you!  I see in your gear it says you have the  *Burson* Soloist 3XP... I've been waiting to hear feedback on that amp how does that sound with the 1266?


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> Thank you!  I see in your gear it says you have the  *Burson* Soloist 3XP... I've been waiting to hear feedback on that amp how does that sound with the 1266?


I'm waiting for it to ship out, but yes I'll have a Burson Soloist in my amp collection soon. I don't expect it to best my FA-10 as it is my preferred sound signature. I do expect it to sound more like the Conductor 3XR I previously owned and have more of a reference sound signature. I'll probably use the balanced outs on the TT2 to connect to it and have it be my reference setup. I'm sure it'll drive the TC's just fine with a neutral presentation much like the 3XR did. If that's what you're looking for in a sound signature, the soloist will probably fit the bill. I like a more meaty, weighty, detailed sound with plenty of top end clarity and the FA-10 delivers that.


----------



## teknorob23 (Oct 25, 2020)

@Slim1970 has the bryston bha1 ever resided amongst your collection? I’m a big fan of their two channel hifi but I’ve not tried it. What I have been lucky enough to try for the past couple of weeks is the Questyle cma800r. Wads of clean power with a slightly sweet top end. The mids are the stand out feature of the presentation, incredible transparency definitely edging the fla amps. I initially thought it might even unseat the fa12, but as usual the 12 came back slugging and has one out again. It’s interesting every time I hear something from  the cleaner, neutral side, I’m initially lured by an apparent improvement in transparency, but the reality of at least my reality  is the fa12 has it all plus the extra bit of magic which makes it so beguiling. The decay for example is slightly slower but it just makes it sound more realistic and more human. The mids are lush but the detail is all there and again it’s realism perhaps slightly rose tinted that i love about it. As you say there is nothing mid-fi about the sound of these amps.

A good example of the 12's versatility, last night i was listening with Beyer T1.2's to some feel good pre-COVID drum and bass



You'd think the CMA800r should win out here and while yes its fast and precise, the 12 just delivered a visceral assault on the senses, treble never coming close to rolled off, the stage is deep as it is wide and the bass is just huge but controlled, nuanced and just as fast as the questyle.

Then calm myself down before bed i slipped on my new comfortable pair of musical slippers, the album by the National's front man Matt Berninger



Again, if i was listening to the questyle in isolation i would have been more than happy, but switching back to the FLA, he's in the room, every last harmonic of the guitar strings both bass and lead are just there to touch.

Obviously i appreciate i now know the Fa12 so well that you can hardly call the playing field completely even, but i am keen to have second amp just so i have something home to help give context when i'm listening to new cables, its just so far nothing's come close to matching the all round performance and quality of the 12 in a different flavour.... Hence the Bryston still being of interest, but perhaps the Volot will appear the horizon and save the day... some serious first world concerns i know, but if there's ever been a time when distraction is more desperately needed, its got to be now.


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> @Slim1970 has the bryston bha1 ever resided amongst your collection? I’m a big fan of their two channel hifi but I’ve not tried it. What I have been lucky enough to try for the past couple of weeks is the Questyle cma800r. Wads of clean power with a slightly sweet top end. The mids are the stand out feature of the presentation, incredible transparency definitely edging the fla amps. I initially thought it might even unseat the fa12, but as usual the 12 came back slugging and has one out again. It’s interesting every time I hear something from  the cleaner, neutral side, I’m initially lured by an apparent improvement in transparency, but the reality of at least my reality  is the fa12 has it all plus the extra bit of magic which makes it so beguiling. The decay for example is slightly slower but it just makes it sound more realistic and more human. The mids are lush but the detail is all there and again it’s realism perhaps slightly rose tinted that i love about it. As you say there is nothing mid-fi about the sound of these amps.
> 
> A good example of the 12's versatility, last night i was listening with Beyer T1.2's to some feel good pre-COVID drum and bass
> 
> ...



No I have not had the luxury of demoing the Bryston BHA-1. But I’ve heard amps with similar sound; neutral, dynamic, transparent, and resolving. Those sound characteristics awe you at first but then the more you listen, the more you realize that your music is missing something, soul. The more amps I demoed like this the more I realize that there is little to no difference between them. Despite the price point they all sounded the same to my ears.

So my search continued until I got my FA-10. It brings a lot of the same sound characteristics of the FA-12’s sound you stated in your post. It’s also the main reason why it easily best amps like the BHA-1, Conductor 3XR, HPA-4, and others to my ears because they all lack some musicality. The FA-10/12 blends clarity, dynamics, rich tones, full bodied sound, bass slam/impact and musicality into every headphone I connect it. Both are really special amps.

I did have the Questyle CMA 12 Master in hand for a couple of weeks. It took a lot of it’s pedigree from the CMA 800R and put it into one package. Like you, I was lured in by it’s seductive sound and wonderful tone. It was my favorite amp pairing with my Utopia’s I had at that time. I could not stop listening to the combo and I almost bought one because of it. All that joy went away when I connected my Susvara’s to it. The CMA 12 Master struggled mightily to drive them. Other than that, I really enjoyed the Questyle sound. Anyone with a Utopia the CMA 12 should be at the top of the list for amp pairings.


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> No I have not had the luxury of demoing the Bryston BHA-1. But I’ve heard amps with similar sound; neutral, dynamic, transparent, and resolving. Those sound characteristics awe you at first but then the more you listen, the more you realize that your music is missing something, soul. The more amps I demoed like this the more I realize that there is little to no difference between them. Despite the price point they all sounded the same to my ears.
> 
> So my search continued until I got my FA-10. It brings a lot of the same sound characteristics of the FA-12’s sound you stated in your post. It’s also the main reason why it easily best amps like the BHA-1, Conductor 3XR, HPA-4, and others to my ears because they all lack some musicality. The FA-10/12 blends clarity, dynamics, rich tones, full bodied sound, bass slam/impact and musicality into every headphone I connect it. Both are really special amps.
> 
> I did have the Questyle CMA 12 Master in hand for a couple of weeks. It took a lot of it’s pedigree from the CMA 800R and put it into one package. Like you, I was lured in by it’s seductive sound and wonderful tone. It was my favorite amp pairing with my Utopia’s I had at that time. I could not stop listening to the combo and I almost bought one because of it. All that joy went away when I connected my Susvara’s to it. The CMA 12 Master struggled mightily to drive them. Other than that, I really enjoyed the Questyle sound. Anyone with a Utopia the CMA 12 should be at the top of the list for amp pairings.



I think you're making the case for the Volot hype where you get the musicality of the Flux house sound and the technical performance and transparency of  BHA-1 / 3XR.


----------



## Slim1970 (Oct 25, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> I think you're making the case for the Volot hype where you get the musicality of the Flux house sound and the technical performance and transparency of  BHA-1 / 3XR.


Seems that way doesn’t it!  I just think the Volot is going to be as large as the Atlas if the preview photos are an indication. That’s a large amp and I don’t have the desk space for something that large regardless of sound. The FA-10 is big enough.

Edit: Don‘t get me wrong, I would love a balanced FA-10. The technicalities and sound would be further improved I’m sure. If the guys at Flux Labs can keep the same form factor then the Volot would definitely worth considering. It’ll actually be a no brainer considering how good the FA-10 is as a single ended amp.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> Seems that way doesn’t it!  I just think the Volot is going to be as large as the Atlas if the preview photos are an indication. That’s a large amp and I don’t have the desk space for something that large regardless of sound. The FA-10 is big enough.
> 
> Edit: Don‘t get me wrong, I would love a balanced FA-10. The technicalities and sound would be further improved I’m sure. If the guys at Flux Labs can keep the same form factor then the Volot would definitely worth considering. It’ll actually be a no brainer considering how good the FA-10 is as a single ended amp.



From speaking to FLA they gave me these as unconfirmed dimensions 43 x 18 x 47... so no shrinking violet of an amp. As i say these dimensions weren’t completely finalised and I’ve not heard anymore

And thank you @Slim1970, you may have just saved me £1400


----------



## sahmen (Oct 25, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> From speaking to FLA they gave me these as unconfirmed dimensions 43 x 18 x 47... so no shrinking violet of an amp. As i say these dimensions weren’t completely finalised and I’ve not heard anymore
> 
> And thank you @Slim1970, you may have just saved me £1400



Do you know whether the Volot will include a pre-amp stage? 

By the way I hope those dimension numbers are not in inches

I guess not. seeing as the Atlas is : 17 * 3.8 * 20.7 inch (43.2 * 9.6 * 52.7 cm). Yet even in centimeters, the Volot would still be huge if those numbers pan out.


----------



## teknorob23

sahmen said:


> Do you know whether the Volot will include a pre-amp stage?
> 
> By the way I hope those dimension numbers are not in inches
> 
> I guess not. seeing as the Atlas is : 17 * 3.8 * 20.7 inch (43.2 * 9.6 * 52.7 cm). Yet even in centimeters, the Volot would still be huge if those numbers pan out.



Hi yes sorry that is centimetres not inches. Again regarding the inclusion of pre-amp i cant confirm this.


----------



## Terriero

I'm amazed with this thread... It seems that you are sharing impressions of a ZMF headphone or something like that, and the FA 10/12 cost just 750 $


----------



## Terriero

teknorob23 said:


> Then calm myself down before bed i slipped on my new comfortable pair of musical slippers, the album by the National's front man Matt Berninger



I love this music, thanks for sharing.


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## Slim1970 (Oct 25, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> From speaking to FLA they gave me these as unconfirmed dimensions 43 x 18 x 47... so no shrinking violet of an amp. As i say these dimensions weren’t completely finalised and I’ve not heard anymore
> 
> And thank you @Slim1970, you may have just saved me £1400


That's big and the size of home theater component, lol. If those dimension pan out then it looks like I might have to pass.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> That's big and the size of home theater component, lol. If those dimension pan out then it looks like I might have to pass.



yep I’d trouble with this too, it sounds like it could be similar in scale to the atlas which I’ve seen in the flesh and it’s a beast too, about the same size as the newish Rupert neve amp.


----------



## PoSR77 (Oct 26, 2020)

So I have been conversing with Vitaliy from Flux via email and he confirmed that different color face plates are available "for any ordered amp" (currently bright yellow, red, space grey, light green, silver and classic black; see attachments).

I'm just trying to decide if the FA-10 would really be a big upgrade over my Class A HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2. I don't need the extra power as it will be running my Auteurs (my end game headphones for the foreseeable future) and the Mk2 is fairly powerful itself (specs can be found here) so I'm trying to justify the purchase haha.

I'm less interested in the FA-12 versions since they might be a little too warm tilted for me.

I'm just basically undecided...


----------



## Slim1970

PoSR77 said:


> So I have been conversing with Vitaliy from Flux via email and he confirmed that different color face plates are available "for any ordered amp" (currently bright yellow, red, space grey, light green, silver and classic black; see attachments).
> 
> I'm just trying to decide if the FA-10 would really be a big upgrade over my Class A HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2. I don't need the extra power as it will be running my Auteurs (my end game headphones for the foreseeable future) and the Mk2 is fairly powerful itself (specs can be found here) so I'm trying to justify the purchase haha.
> 
> ...


The Gilmore Lite MK2 is several orders below the FA-10 to my ears. I owned the GL Mk2 on two different occassions. I had it cap modded the second time, which gave it more bass, soundstage, and a bit of warmth. All of which improved the sound of the GL Mk2 considerably. With that said,it still doesn't bring it close to what the FA-10 sounds like nor does it touch the performance level of the FA-10.

I have the silver face plate on my FA-10 to match my other components. The red or gold looks nice as well. I wonder if the face plates could be purchased separately for the FA-10?


----------



## PoSR77

That's good to know, thanks!

I really like the Gilmore Lite Mk2, but there are a few things about its sound that aren't quite to my taste, and the Auteurs seem to accentuate these traits more than other headphones as they really let you hear amp deficiencies/differences.

I am also looking at the Cavalli Liquid Platinum and Feliks Espressivo Mark II, but the Flux is by far the front runner. I just wish there were more impressions/reviews of it.


----------



## teknorob23

PoSR77 said:


> That's good to know, thanks!
> 
> I really like the Gilmore Lite Mk2, but there are a few things about its sound that aren't quite to my taste, and the Auteurs seem to accentuate these traits more than other headphones as they really let you hear amp deficiencies/differences.
> 
> I am also looking at the Cavalli Liquid Platinum and Feliks Espressivo Mark II, but the Flux is by far the front runner. I just wish there were more impressions/reviews of it.



I know the feliks range pretty well and owned the Euforia AE and previous versions for a good few years. The Espressivo is a lovely amp quite neutralish but still leaning toward the warmside, but its still a few rungs down from the FA range on technical performance alone. Tuning-wise there are some similarities. A lot will come down to whether you like the tuning, because coming from the Euforia i havent found a solid state amp i prefer to FA12 at any price.... yet


----------



## Slim1970

PoSR77 said:


> That's good to know, thanks!
> 
> I really like the Gilmore Lite Mk2, but there are a few things about its sound that aren't quite to my taste, and the Auteurs seem to accentuate these traits more than other headphones as they really let you hear amp deficiencies/differences.
> 
> I am also looking at the Cavalli Liquid Platinum and Feliks Espressivo Mark II, but the Flux is by far the front runner. I just wish there were more impressions/reviews of it.


I have a Liquid Platinum as well. It’s heavily modded, with upgraded caps, an upgraded volume pot, and I’m using adapters so I can use upgraded tubes from the 12UA7 family. I didn’t like the sound of it with stock tubes or in stock form. It lacked clarity, dynamics were soft, and it sounded muddy. Now, it’s one of the best amps I’ve heard. The upgrades let the LP breathe, improved dynamics, clarity and details.

It was my favorite amp until I got the FA-10. It still does some things better than only tubes can do. Like provide a 3D soundstage, airy treble, and provide a even more meaty midrange, with superb bass impact depending on tubes used. Also depending on tubes, it can almost match the dynamics of the FA-10 with one caveat, it needs to be modded. Otherwise, I would say pass on it and go straight for the FA-10. You get everything that a modded LP can do right out of the box.


----------



## PoSR77

Darn you people are persuasive!   

Just what I need: another darn black box (with a yellow front for a change though). 

I'll have to think about it. Thanks for all the helpful input!


----------



## cfranchi

So I have pulled the trigger for an HD800s...
Curious to see how it will pair with my FA-10.


----------



## Bhk1004

im assuming so far no one has tested the fa10 with he6?


----------



## cfranchi

Bhk1004 said:


> im assuming so far no one has tested the fa10 with he6?



I have currently HE6se and FA-10 (DAC is Chord Mojo) : plenty of power and musicality, can’t go wrong with FA-10, such a bargain at this price.


----------



## cfranchi

cfranchi said:


> So I have pulled the trigger for an HD800s...
> Curious to see how it will pair with my FA-10.



I have just received my 800s (second hand but in pristine condition), I have the week end to check how it sounds, will post my impressions as soon as possible.


----------



## cfranchi

So I’m playing songs and songs with HD800s, quite an interesting and unexpected listening session... I have to be more rigorous and make A/B testing with He6se, first feeling : 800s is better than expected...


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> So I’m playing songs and songs with HD800s, quite an interesting and unexpected listening session... I have to be more rigorous and make A/B testing with He6se, first feeling : 800s is better than expected...


The HD800S is a great headphone especially if feed properly. On the wrong source, it can sound thin and lacking. On a good source, it can sound very rewarding. Glad you’re finding the combo a good match. I’ll have mine soon.


----------



## sahmen (Oct 30, 2020)

I have the FA-10, which I am using with my Susvara and other cans in the stable. Still I took advantage of a recent sale on Amazon to get a Topping A90, not just out of curiosity, but also I thought I might use its preamp stage with some powered speakers in my office, while it is doing double duty as a desktop HPA in that office. The Topping has not been disappointing at all.  I think for the price tag, it delivers a lot, and does so efficiently and competently.  Hell, I am even willing to concede that it punches above its weight in performance, as what strikes me most at first is its "size/performance" ratio, although I wouldn't go so far as to call it "a giant-killer" as some have (first of all there are way too many ""giants" out there, in that price-bracket for "giants," and I am not quite sure which of these "giants" the A90 is supposed to be killing, but I digress).

Out of curiosity, and  also naturally, I did a head to head of the A90 and AF-10, and, again, the A-90 did quite a competent job, especially, with the Susvara, and never stopped surprising me with its relatively puny little size (as compared to the FA-10) as seen in the light of the amount of power it was pushing out to drive the Susvara, which I had long assumed could only be driven by godzilla-sized speaker amps smoking like some nuclear reactors on steroids, but that has turned out to be not quite the case, thank heavens!  I must have got that idea from paying too many visits to a few "over-pumped" threads on head-fi that shall remain nameless here.

What took a few points off the score sheet for the A90  show is that,  in spite of its all round competence, it does not sing to me nearly as sweetly as the FA-10 does, and for that matter, not as my v281, my Liquid Platinum, or even (surprise, surprise) my old and almost forgotten, Audiogd NFB-1 amp, which has been the biggest surprise of this latest round of Susvara auditioning! That "surprise" will be a story for another day. This is about the A90 vs the FA-10.  I do not regret getting the A-90 at all, as I think it will be perfect for the restricted office duties that I got it for, and consider it to be a surprisingly great bargain at the sale price of $425. Besides it does a competent job, and that is not bad at all. It has just shown me how much I enjoy the FA-10, and I wanted to share that here.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> I have the FA-10, which I am using with my Susvara and other cans in the stable. Still I took advantage of a recent sale on Amazon to get a Topping A90, not just out of curiosity, but also I thought I might use its preamp stage with some powered speakers in my office, while it is doing double duty as a desktop HPA in that office. The Topping has not been disappointing at all.  I think for the price tag, it delivers a lot, and does so efficiently and competently.  Hell, I am even willing to concede that it punches above its weight in performance, as what strikes me most at first is its "size/performance" ratio, although I wouldn't go so far as to call it "a giant-killer" as some have (first of all there are way too many ""giants" out there, in that price-bracket for "giants," and I am not quite sure which of these "giants" the A90 is supposed to be killing, but I digress).
> 
> Out of curiosity, and  also naturally, I did a head to head of the A90 and AF-10, and, again, the A-90 did quite a competent job, especially, with the Susvara, and never stopped surprising me with its relatively puny little size (as compared to the FA-10) as seen in the light of the amount of power it was pushing out to drive the Susvara, which I had long assumed could only be driven by godzilla-sized speaker amps smoking like some nuclear reactors on steroids, but that has turned out to be not quite the case, thank heavens!  I must have got that idea from paying too many visits to a few "over-pumped" threads on head-fi that shall remain nameless here.
> 
> What took a few points off the score sheet for the A90  show is that,  in spite of its all round competence, it does not sing to me nearly as sweetly as the FA-10 does, and for that matter, not as my v281, my Liquid Platinum, or even (surprise, surprise) my old and almost forgotten, Audiogd NFB-1 amp, which has been the biggest surprise of this latest round of Susvara auditioning! That "surprise" will be a story for another day. This is about the A90 vs the FA-10.  I do not regret getting the A-90 at all, as I think it will be perfect for the restricted office duties that I got it for, and consider it to be a surprisingly great bargain at the sale price of $425. Besides it does a competent job, and that is not bad at all. It has just shown me how much I enjoy the FA-10, and I wanted to share that here.


Nice write up. The A90 was on my radar for a brief moment as I was very curious about its sound, still am. I ended up going a different direction when looking for a complementary amp my FA-10 and LP. I got a deal I couldn't pass on with the Burson Soloist and per-ordered one. It should be shipping out soon. I expect it to have a fairly neutral sound signature much likeo the A90 with a little better built quality. I also have the builtin amps on my RME, Hugo 2, and TT2 which are all very competent. One would think I should have my amps needs covered but curiosity also wins out. There are just many good options out there that I want to try. Dang you head-fi....


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> Nice write up. The A90 was on my radar for a brief moment as I was very curious about its sound, still am. I ended up going a different direction when looking for a complementary amp my FA-10 and LP. I got a deal I couldn't pass on with the Burson Soloist and per-ordered one. It should be shipping out soon. I expect it to have a fairly neutral sound signature much likeo the A90 with a little better built quality. I also have the builtin amps on my RME, Hugo 2, and TT2 which are all very competent. One would think I should have my amps needs covered but curiosity also wins out. There are just many good options out there that I want to try. Dang you head-fi....



very interested to hear the soloist goes.. not place to be having the TT2 to fall back on  not too mention the FA10, etc.  The right Denafrips arrived in my living room on Wednesday the Venus2, as with the Pontus it sounded like a bag of spanners straight out of the box, but listening to it last night briefly and tonight for the last few hours, the spanners are gone replaced by angels. Bit of a double whammy, finally unleashing the FA12 in all its balanced glory. Not that it was noisy before but extra low volume details have sprouted in abundance. Most noticeable is the extra depth in the staging and consequent improvements in layer separation. I have DAC and fa12 wired up with identical solid core neotech silver RCA's and XLRs both with ETI Kryo plugs and flicking between SE and Balanced with improvements are instantly and dramatically obvious both Beyer t1.2 and Ether C 1.1s. For its part the Venus2 is an instant star too, staging, texture and detail retrieval is some of the best i've heard in any DAC. It easily bests my H2 for detail and i would think is close if not equal to my ex-beloved TT2, but theres definitely a natural easiness that i've not heard in a DAC before, the music just flows.

This one of those rare nights/ moments in hifi when your system not just improved by tiny increments but a big leap...and there's not even any wine involved!


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> very interested to hear the soloist goes.. not place to be having the TT2 to fall back on  not too mention the FA10, etc.  The right Denafrips arrived in my living room on Wednesday the Venus2, as with the Pontus it sounded like a bag of spanners straight out of the box, but listening to it last night briefly and tonight for the last few hours, the spanners are gone replaced by angels. Bit of a double whammy, finally unleashing the FA12 in all its balanced glory. Not that it was noisy before but extra low volume details have sprouted in abundance. Most noticeable is the extra depth in the staging and consequent improvements in layer separation. I have DAC and fa12 wired up with identical solid core neotech silver RCA's and XLRs both with ETI Kryo plugs and flicking between SE and Balanced with improvements are instantly and dramatically obvious both Beyer t1.2 and Ether C 1.1s. For its part the Venus2 is an instant star too, staging, texture and detail retrieval is some of the best i've heard in any DAC. It easily bests my H2 for detail and i would think is close if not equal to my ex-beloved TT2, but theres definitely a natural easiness that i've not heard in a DAC before, the music just flows.
> 
> This one of those rare nights/ moments in hifi when your system not just improved by tiny increments but a big leap...and there's not even any wine involved!


Nice, I really want hear a good R2R DAC. The Denafrips Venus and Sonnet Morpheus are high on my list of wanting to audition. I have an HMS coming soon to pair with my TT2 maybe that'll change this for me. But right now I would love to hear the more textured, layered, detailed sound of an R2R DAC.

It is not very often that adding a component to your system that seems to fill in all the gaps and adds those missing elements to music that makes this hobby such a joy. I'm glad you are close to audio nirvana because it is elusive, bravo my friend, bravo!


----------



## cfranchi (Nov 2, 2020)

cfranchi said:


> So I’m playing songs and songs with HD800s, quite an interesting and unexpected listening session... I have to be more rigorous and make A/B testing with He6se, first feeling : 800s is better than expected...



Ok so I have finally listened to 800s during all the week end and I have a big problem, I don’t recover all the aspects that are often associated to HD800s:
- anemic bass? Not at all, it punch hard and even extend very low in the sub bass
- bright? Certainly not, ok I’m 47
- boring and chirurgical? What?! It is not at all, I had iem monitoring before (earsonics S-EM6v2) and I know what is chirurgical and boring
- diffuse, vague and artificial soundstage? Again not on my side, soundstage is spacious and airy, imaging is good, not artificially wide for me : it is still a headphone and to be honest I was a little disappointing at my first listening session.

So does the amp and dac pair really well with 800s ? For sure FA-10 is powerful (1.6w @300ohm, 1w @600ohm, 800s impedance can go to 700ohm) and as a very good class A amp has certainly the musicality that fit well with 800s.
Also Chord Mojo pair well with neutral headphones, that add a point to the synergy.

In fact I’m at a step where I see no interest to keep my HE6se: on A/B listening, HE6se that I think can sound big, suddenly it sounds ´intimate’ : and that is really the killing point for me. Timbre are a bit more natural and cleaner on 800s, but HE6se is very good also. The impact and slam of 800s is not so far behind HE6se.

Last, I’m on medium gain around 1o clock for 800s (it is the cleaner and effortless setting), I’m on high gain around 1o clock for HE6se, Mojo DAC output is 3v.

I’m quite interested to read other users feedbacks about 800s and FA-10 !


----------



## Klmahnn

The 800S is really a fantastic headphone. I have just sold mine but only due to noisy environment, I will hopefully own it again one day.

Has anyone ever heard the IRIY, particularly the solid state version? I’m curious how it stacks up against the rest of their offerings? It looks like a very tidy dac/amp.


----------



## aleniola76

HI Everyone 
Did anyone tested any of these amps with Beyerdynamic DT1990? 
Also, can anyone share a picture of the remote control...asssuming someone has it  ?


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Ok so I have finally listened to 800s during all the week end and I have a big problem, I don’t recover all the aspects that are often associated to HD800s:
> - anemic bass? Not at all, it punch hard and even extend very low in the sub bass
> - bright? Certainly not, ok I’m 47
> - boring and chirurgical? What?! It is not at all, I had iem monitoring before (earsonics S-EM6v2) and I know what is chirurgical and boring
> ...


I should have my HD800S’s this week. Reading your post has me pumped to listen to them on my FA-10. Nice summation!


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I should have my HD800S’s this week. Reading your post has me pumped to listen to them on my FA-10. Nice summation!



I see that you have a nice bunch of headphones, your 800s (with FA-10) feeling will be useful.


----------



## Terriero

cfranchi said:


> I see that you have a nice bunch of headphones, your 800s (with FA-10) feeling will be useful.


I have the old version of the HD 800-S, the HD 800... And after your impressions of the HD 800 S with FA 10, I'm tempted to buy FA 10 or 12, but I need a preamp feature and also I would like a 4,4 mm output (for the Sony Kimber cable) and a remote controler (for convenience, to use in a relax armchair). I'm waiting for the Volot, maybe will have those features (I don't know the 4,4 mm, because the Atlas don't have that type of conection).


----------



## teknorob23

Quick FYI, I spoke to flux and while they’re still keeping the final specs of the Volot close to their chest they did confirm it will be amp only cobfiguration and won’t have pre-amp, dac or streamer.


----------



## teknorob23

teknorob23 said:


> Quick FYI, I spoke to flux and while they’re still keeping the final specs of the Volot close to their chest they did confirm it will be amp only cobfiguration and won’t have pre-amp, dac or streamer.



Ps it may get  a remote


----------



## Terriero

Thank you very much, @teknorob23


----------



## teknorob23

Terriero said:


> Thank you very much, @teknorob23



I have to admit i'm a bit sad about the lack of pre-amp on the Volot and i'd love the FA12 to have one too. I have mono blocks in my AV set up, so i'd love to get a bit FLA magic going straight through them, bypassing my primare receiver as well as my headfi set up


----------



## ksorota

Slim1970 said:


> I have a Liquid Platinum as well. It’s heavily modded, with upgraded caps, an upgraded volume pot, and I’m using adapters so I can use upgraded tubes from the 12UA7 family. I didn’t like the sound of it with stock tubes or in stock form. It lacked clarity, dynamics were soft, and it sounded muddy. Now, it’s one of the best amps I’ve heard. The upgrades let the LP breathe, improved dynamics, clarity and details.
> 
> It was my favorite amp until I got the FA-10. It still does some things better than only tubes can do. Like provide a 3D soundstage, airy treble, and provide a even more meaty midrange, with superb bass impact depending on tubes used. Also depending on tubes, it can almost match the dynamics of the FA-10 with one caveat, it needs to be modded. Otherwise, I would say pass on it and go straight for the FA-10. You get everything that a modded LP can do right out of the box.



I am listening to the FA-10 vs. modded LP and am quite surprised how similar they are in overall character.  I am running HD600 and HE6 off of both and am having a hard time deciding which is preferable.  The chain is mac mini>Bifrost MB w/Unison>FA-10/LP(7730 tubes). Like you said the LP has the advantage on soundstage, and having the ability to roll tubes and change the overall character but the FA10 takes it on dynamics and impact and detail.  I dont get the same sense of sounds coming from outside the headphone space like I can with the LP, but it is a tough choice to pick which one I like more.  

The FA10 is interesting in its power curve.  So much attenuation is found from 0-noon, then the ramp up is quick.  If the specs did not indicate 16watts of power, I would not have guessed it was the case.  The LP has such a high gain that it almost seems to have the same if not more power on tap. I also notice that there is no completely silent position on the volume knob on medium or high gain.  Low volume listening is a better experience on the FA-10 due to the superior channel matching over the LP, and low level dynamics are better.   

If shopping between the two you are in a good position because you could not go wrong either way.  If you want the flexibility of tubes the LP is an amazing amp (modded).  For a great dynamic delivery and similar yet SS delivery, the FA10 is where I would be looking.  I am now faced with the decision to keep the LP or sell it and pick up the FA10.  A lot will depend on how the Flux responds to modding!


----------



## Terriero

teknorob23 said:


> I have to admit i'm a bit sad about the lack of pre-amp on the Volot and i'd love the FA12 to have one too. I have mono blocks in my AV set up, so i'd love to get a bit FLA magic going straight through them, bypassing my primare receiver as well as my headfi set up


Maybe I'll go for the Atlas if the $/€ conversion is fair and will elude taxes on shipping... But I don't know if there is a comparison against FA 10/12 and the Volot (the Atlas amp). I lose the 4,4 mm conecction for the Sonys (Z7 and Z1R), but I think I can get a XLR cable similar to the Kimber (or I think there is a Kimber variant with XLR end), because I want to use silver and copper cables with the Sonys.


----------



## Wesley88

ksorota said:


> The FA10 is interesting in its power curve. So much attenuation is found from 0-noon, then the ramp up is quick.



Same with the FA-12. Low, mid, and high gain all max out around 12-1 o'clock with ZMF Eikons. It's the only thing I'm not a big fan of.

Anyone experience the volume relay getting caught between 2 steps and it will click back and forth?


----------



## sahmen (Nov 3, 2020)

ksorota said:


> A lot will depend on how the Flux responds to modding!



Now isn't that the million dollar question? I can't wait to find out how that pans out!  As for the toss-up regarding which one of the two amps to keep or let go, there is also the option of keeping both for the different listening flavors they each offer, especially since they're both so reasonably priced. No?


----------



## teknorob23

Wesley88 said:


> Same with the FA-12. Low, mid, and high gain all max out around 12-1 o'clock with ZMF Eikons. It's the only thing I'm not a big fan of.
> 
> Anyone experience the volume relay getting caught between 2 steps and it will click back and forth?



Yes I have, fla suggested as a fix: unplug headphones switch the amp off then on again, once back on turn the knob repeatedly and quickly full on/off. This fixed mine, but it has happened a few times.


----------



## ksorota

sahmen said:


> Now isn't that the million dollar question? I can't wait to find out how that pans out!  As for the toss-up regarding which one of the two amps to keep or let go, there is also the option of keeping both for the different listening flavors they each offers, especially since they're both so reasonably priced. No?


The thought has crossed my mind!  I also am trying my best to stick with a single setup at home and on at work so the real question for myself is, FA10 or LP at home, then deciding which one to replace my GLMK2 at work (still waiting on power supply).  The Flux is easily better, but harder to pass off as an office desk system.  The GLMK2 with Modi 3 is a great desktop setup that I do not worry about leaving in the office.  I am still surprised how big this thing is!


----------



## sahmen

ksorota said:


> The thought has crossed my mind!  I also am trying my best to stick with a single setup at home and on at work so the real question for myself is, FA10 or LP at home, then deciding which one to replace my GLMK2 at work (still waiting on power supply).  The Flux is easily better, but harder to pass off as an office desk system.  The GLMK2 with Modi 3 is a great desktop setup that I do not worry about leaving in the office.  I am still surprised how big this thing is!


Yes, that it is (huge!).


----------



## Slim1970 (Nov 3, 2020)

ksorota said:


> I am listening to the FA-10 vs. modded LP and am quite surprised how similar they are in overall character.  I am running HD600 and HE6 off of both and am having a hard time deciding which is preferable.  The chain is mac mini>Bifrost MB w/Unison>FA-10/LP(7730 tubes). Like you said the LP has the advantage on soundstage, and having the ability to roll tubes and change the overall character but the FA10 takes it on dynamics and impact and detail.  I dont get the same sense of sounds coming from outside the headphone space like I can with the LP, but it is a tough choice to pick which one I like more.
> 
> The FA10 is interesting in its power curve.  So much attenuation is found from 0-noon, then the ramp up is quick.  If the specs did not indicate 16watts of power, I would not have guessed it was the case.  The LP has such a high gain that it almost seems to have the same if not more power on tap. I also notice that there is no completely silent position on the volume knob on medium or high gain.  Low volume listening is a better experience on the FA-10 due to the superior channel matching over the LP, and low level dynamics are better.
> 
> If shopping between the two you are in a good position because you could not go wrong either way.  If you want the flexibility of tubes the LP is an amazing amp (modded).  For a great dynamic delivery and similar yet SS delivery, the FA10 is where I would be looking.  I am now faced with the decision to keep the LP or sell it and pick up the FA10.  A lot will depend on how the Flux responds to modding!


I can’t wait to hear if there are any improvements to the sound. I’m guessing there will be as performance of the FA-10 can only improve from the mod. The FA-10 has outstanding tone, body and weight to its sound for a solid state amp. That is what has me in love with it. If the mod gets me more sound stage width, depth, and air then the FA-10 could very well be the ultimate amp and it’s already moved to the top of my list for amplification.

The jump in gain from medium to high is very minimal. I think Flux Labs could have gotten away with only a low and high gain on the FA-10. Majority of my listening is done on low gain anyway. I’m finding the more the amp breaks in, the more the sound is starting to evolve and get more powerful, open sounding. It’s only when I listen to my Susvara’s and TC’s that more gain is needed to make them come alive.

The LP needs a gain switch, period. The jump in volume once you get to the 11 o’clock position is ridiculously  high. But you’re right about them sounding equally as powerful and having a very similar delivery sound wise. It’s the dynamics, impact and slam that’s reels you in with the FA-10. I’ve never had an amp control the drivers quite like the FA-10 does. It has just as much driver control as my Burson Timekeeper power amp. That’s an impressive feat to say the least, which by way is completely filled with Elna Silmic II caps


----------



## ksorota

In one day of comparison overall synergy goes like this.

FA-10 best with HE6
LP best with HD600, although a much smaller differential


----------



## gancanjam

Wesley88 said:


> Same with the FA-12. Low, mid, and high gain all max out around 12-1 o'clock with ZMF Eikons. It's the only thing I'm not a big fan of.
> 
> Anyone experience the volume relay getting caught between 2 steps and it will click back and forth?



My FCN-10 once in a while get caught to make the repeated click sound but nothing to be concerned about, just need to adjust it a bit either left or right for few cms so that it can sit in a groove ? i think.


----------



## Slim1970

ksorota said:


> The thought has crossed my mind!  I also am trying my best to stick with a single setup at home and on at work so the real question for myself is, FA10 or LP at home, then deciding which one to replace my GLMK2 at work (still waiting on power supply).  The Flux is easily better, but harder to pass off as an office desk system.  The GLMK2 with Modi 3 is a great desktop setup that I do not worry about leaving in the office.  I am still surprised how big this thing is!


The FA-10 does eat up a lot of desk space already. This is why I won’t be a fan of the Volot if FLA keeps it the size of the Atlas.


----------



## driftingbunnies

The flux is actually not that large. Maybe compared to some smaller headphone amps but not compared to traditional audio components.


----------



## Slim1970

driftingbunnies said:


> The flux is actually not that large. Maybe compared to some smaller headphone amps but not compared to traditional audio components.


How does the FA-10 compete with the P-750U in your opinion?


----------



## driftingbunnies

It's not even a fair comparison. P-750u is way more refined, has plenty of power, build quality is outstanding, and musicality is great. It's like the difference between a WRX STI - FA-10 and a Porsche 911. With one car, you're putting all your money into the engine, with the other, you pay more for the whole package.


----------



## sahmen

driftingbunnies said:


> It's not even a fair comparison. P-750u is way more refined, has plenty of power, build quality is outstanding, and musicality is great. It's like the difference between a WRX STI - FA-10 and a Porsche 911. With one car, you're putting all your money into the engine, with the other, you pay more for the whole package.



How does the Luxman fare with hard to drive planars (e.g. He-6(SE), Susvara, LCD-4 etc etc).: These power output specs look quite impressive, but I still do not know how to match them to the specs of the headphones I've mentioned since such calculations are often not linear:

*Rated output *:  Unbalance: 4W + 4W (8Ω), 2W + 2W (16Ω) 1W + 1W (32Ω), 53mW + 53mW (600Ω)
                         Balance: 8W + 8W (16Ω), 4W + 4W (32Ω) 213mW + 213mW (600Ω)

From :  http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=7#spec


----------



## driftingbunnies

I can't say since I don't have those hard to drive planars. I did use them with the LCD-X for a short period of time and Diana V2 and it drove those really well. If you have any of the hard to drive planars, feel free to message me and send them over and I'll test them out for you


----------



## sahmen

driftingbunnies said:


> I can't say since I don't have those hard to drive planars. I did use them with the LCD-X for a short period of time and Diana V2 and it drove those really well. If you have any of the hard to drive planars, feel free to message me and send them over and I'll test them out for you


 

Thanks... I was going to say never mind, because I actually did a quick search and found the impressions of a few owners who are using it with some of those same planars and those impressions are rather "glowing" to say the least. It sounds like a "no-brainer" inductee onto my own "watch-list" although I wish it also had a preamp stage on board


----------



## Slim1970

driftingbunnies said:


> It's not even a fair comparison. P-750u is way more refined, has plenty of power, build quality is outstanding, and musicality is great. It's like the difference between a WRX STI - FA-10 and a Porsche 911. With one car, you're putting all your money into the engine, with the other, you pay more for the whole package.


I probably would‘ve guessed that it has a more refined sound than the FA-10. More than likely due to the higher quality components being used in the P-750U. Outside of being more refined sounding, what are some of the sonic qualities that the P-750U have that you find missing from the FA-10?


----------



## driftingbunnies

Slim1970 said:


> I probably would‘ve guessed that it has a more refined sound than the FA-10. More than likely due to the higher quality components being used in the P-750U. Outside of being more refined sounding, what are some of the sonic qualities that the P-750U have that you find missing from the FA-10?



It's all about the last percentages when you're comparing the two. In comparison, the FA-10 sounded like it was shouting at me compared to the P-750u would present the music in a way that was for a lack of a better term "effortless". The P-750u controls the treble of my Beyers which generally only does well with tubes. I don't want to derail this thread from the FA-10 but I think there definitely is still room for improvement above the FA-10. I still believe the FA-10 does extremely well in it's price range.


----------



## aleniola76

Hi @teknorob23 , I see that you have Beyerdynamic T1.2 as well, could you comment on how they match with the FluxLab? I am trying to understand if this head amp would pir with my DT1990 and 1770. Also, I see you owned a Burson in the past...is that close to Flux sound?
Thanks a lot 😀


----------



## Slim1970

driftingbunnies said:


> It's all about the last percentages when you're comparing the two. In comparison, the FA-10 sounded like it was shouting at me compared to the P-750u would present the music in a way that was for a lack of a better term "effortless". The P-750u controls the treble of my Beyers which generally only does well with tubes. I don't want to derail this thread from the FA-10 but I think there definitely is still room for improvement above the FA-10. I still believe the FA-10 does extremely well in it's price range.


Thanks for the response. Sounds like the P-750U would be a nice component to have if some wants to move up the chain. Getting that last 5 - 10% of sound quality sometimes it what cost the most. It’s the same way with headphones, it’s not until you hear it that you realize there is better. At the same time, it goes to show you just how good the FA-10 is. You are really getting a lot of value for your money. The FA-10 really performs way above its price.


----------



## goreshade

Why is the balanced FA-12 priced the same as FA-10 ?
Isn't the FA-10 single ended ?


----------



## ksorota

goreshade said:


> Why is the balanced FA-12 priced the same as FA-10 ?
> Isn't the FA-10 single ended ?



You are making a trade off...Fully balanced FA-12 with lower power or Full power FA-10 without a fully balanced circuit.


----------



## carlosgab

May I know why no one buys the FA-10 Pro or at least talks about it?


----------



## Bhk1004

carlosgab said:


> May I know why no one buys the FA-10 Pro or at least talks about it?


People prefer a musical/slightly warmer amp vs the perception is the fa10 pro might sound too clinical/bright.


----------



## teknorob23

aleniola76 said:


> Hi @teknorob23 , I see that you have Beyerdynamic T1.2 as well, could you comment on how they match with the FluxLab? I am trying to understand if this head amp would pir with my DT1990 and 1770. Also, I see you owned a Burson in the past...is that close to Flux sound?
> Thanks a lot 😀



Hey sorry for slow response, been one of those weeks! I had sort dismissed the t1.2 with fa12 while I’d been using it single ended fed by the unbalanced hugo2, but since the Venus2 arrived and I’ve been using all of the amp, the t1’s are now my go to listen. Power’s not an issue 11, 12 o’clock in high gain, and the treble is the smoothest I’ve heard with the beyers since my euforia ae otl amp. The low end has great body and if anything the 12 has more pace than the euforia. Stage depth is improved to levels I’ve not heard before in the t1s or thought they were capable of. Overall it irons out a few of the t1s weaknesses and highlights it’s strengths more than any other SS amp I’ve used them with. 

I only gave the a brief run the on fcn10, preferring it with the hd820s and ether c1.1s, but it wasn’t really a fair test. Fa12 just gives them much better body and staging. I’ve left my 1770pro’s at my in-laws in spain so I can’t really comment, but lnowing the 1990pros quite well I think the 12 would give them some extra body too, control the treble and give them good dose of musicality.

Since the arrival of the denafrips dac and now I’m finally using its balanced topology I am going through a bit of a purple patch with the fa12. This is an incredible amp and while the 10 is awesome I’m surprised not more people are giving it a go, to my ears it’s the star of the range


----------



## aleniola76

teknorob23 said:


> Hey sorry for slow response, been one of those weeks! I had sort dismissed the t1.2 with fa12 while I’d been using it single ended fed by the unbalanced hugo2, but since the Venus2 arrived and I’ve been using all of the amp, the t1’s are now my go to listen. Power’s not an issue 11, 12 o’clock in high gain, and the treble is the smoothest I’ve heard with the beyers since my euforia ae otl amp. The low end has great body and if anything the 12 has more pace than the euforia. Stage depth is improved to levels I’ve not heard before in the t1s or thought they were capable of. Overall it irons out a few of the t1s weaknesses and highlights it’s strengths more than any other SS amp I’ve used them with.
> 
> I only gave the a brief run the on fcn10, preferring it with the hd820s and ether c1.1s, but it wasn’t really a fair test. Fa12 just gives them much better body and staging. I’ve left my 1770pro’s at my in-laws in spain so I can’t really comment, but lnowing the 1990pros quite well I think the 12 would give them some extra body too, control the treble and give them good dose of musicality.
> 
> Since the arrival of the denafrips dac and now I’m finally using its balanced topology I am going through a bit of a purple patch with the fa12. This is an incredible amp and while the 10 is awesome I’m surprised not more people are giving it a go, to my ears it’s the star of the range


Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Hey sorry for slow response, been one of those weeks! I had sort dismissed the t1.2 with fa12 while I’d been using it single ended fed by the unbalanced hugo2, but since the Venus2 arrived and I’ve been using all of the amp, the t1’s are now my go to listen. Power’s not an issue 11, 12 o’clock in high gain, and the treble is the smoothest I’ve heard with the beyers since my euforia ae otl amp. The low end has great body and if anything the 12 has more pace than the euforia. Stage depth is improved to levels I’ve not heard before in the t1s or thought they were capable of. Overall it irons out a few of the t1s weaknesses and highlights it’s strengths more than any other SS amp I’ve used them with.
> 
> I only gave the a brief run the on fcn10, preferring it with the hd820s and ether c1.1s, but it wasn’t really a fair test. Fa12 just gives them much better body and staging. I’ve left my 1770pro’s at my in-laws in spain so I can’t really comment, but lnowing the 1990pros quite well I think the 12 would give them some extra body too, control the treble and give them good dose of musicality.
> 
> Since the arrival of the denafrips dac and now I’m finally using its balanced topology I am going through a bit of a purple patch with the fa12. This is an incredible amp and while the 10 is awesome I’m surprised not more people are giving it a go, to my ears it’s the star of the range


I think the power output of the FA-12 is what is holding it back from being a fan favorite. I would love a balanced topology but I need the power output of the FA-10. Now that I have the FA-10, I couldn't imagine having any more warmth to the sound. The FA-10 has the right amount of power and warmth to it that makes it a great match for the headphones I own.


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I think the power output of the FA-12 is what is holding it back from being a fan favorite. I would love a balanced topology but I need the power output of the FA-10. Now that I have the FA-10, I couldn't imagine having any more warmth to the sound. The FA-10 has the right amount of power and warmth to it that makes it a great match for the headphones I own.



Hello, did you receive your 800s?


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Hello, did you receive your 800s?


Yes I did but I don't have my FA-10 at the moment. It's out being modded, more to come on that later. Right now I'm enjoying them on directly out of TT2/HMS, RME ADi-2 FS and LP. I love how they sound on the RME after I applied some PEQ corrections. I boosted the bass frequencies below 100 Hz and lowered the treble peaks making them sound more exciting. The HD800S's on the TT2/HMS sound so natural with incredible depth and space just drawing you into the music. On tubes, the HD800S's just sings. My modded LP just throws an incredible holographic image, while adding some low end and filling up the midrange. I'm most looking forward to hearing them on my modded FA-10 once it's finished.


----------



## buonassi

ksorota said:


> You are making a trade off...Fully balanced FA-12 with lower power or Full power FA-10 without a fully balanced circuit.



I think this came up before, but I feel is worth re-iterating.  Do both amps only pass the signal through depending on their inputs?  IE, if one uses the balanced inputs, it only drives the balanced output jack to the headphones, and if one uses the RCA inputs, it only drives the single ended jack?

Is this still believed to be true?


----------



## ksorota

buonassi said:


> I think this came up before, but I feel is worth re-iterating.  Do both amps only pass the signal through depending on their inputs?  IE, if one uses the balanced inputs, it only drives the balanced output jack to the headphones, and if one uses the RCA inputs, it only drives the single ended jack?
> 
> Is this still believed to be true?



I can tell you that in the FA10 with SE inputs I am driving balanced HD600, i assume it works through the 1/4 jack and will give it a try tonight.


----------



## driftingbunnies

buonassi said:


> I think this came up before, but I feel is worth re-iterating.  Do both amps only pass the signal through depending on their inputs?  IE, if one uses the balanced inputs, it only drives the balanced output jack to the headphones, and if one uses the RCA inputs, it only drives the single ended jack?
> 
> Is this still believed to be true?



This applies only to the FA-12


----------



## teknorob23

driftingbunnies said:


> This applies only to the FA-12



Yep just the fa12


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> I think the power output of the FA-12 is what is holding it back from being a fan favorite. I would love a balanced topology but I need the power output of the FA-10. Now that I have the FA-10, I couldn't imagine having any more warmth to the sound. The FA-10 has the right amount of power and warmth to it that makes it a great match for the headphones I own.



I totally get this, I was being a little provocative and on a different day I’d pick the 10. I would love for you to hear the 12 and get your thoughts on it. Very intrigued by your mods, sorry If you’ve already described them but what are you tweaking? What a terrible spot to be in having to fall back on tt2/hms while you wait  I love this combo and to my ears at least it’s preferable to the Dave, making it sound a little thin by comparisons. Congrats!


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> I totally get this, I was being a little provocative and on a different day I’d pick the 10. I would love for you to hear the 12 and get your thoughts on it. Very intrigued by your mods, sorry If you’ve already described them but what are you tweaking? What a terrible spot to be in having to fall back on tt2/hms while you wait  I love this combo and to my ears at least it’s preferable to the Dave, making it sound a little thin by comparisons. Congrats!


I do want to hear the FA-12. If for no other reason than to hear its tonality. With the TT2/HMS being so incisive at times the FA-12 could add the right infusion of warmth to  the sound and be the perfect mix. The TT2/HMS is not slouch on it own, but I just love what the FA-10 adds to sound from an amp standpoint.  I’ll hold out on disclosing the exact mods until it’s finished, but I did hint at it in another post.


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> I do want to hear the FA-12. If for no other reason than to hear its tonality. With the TT2/HMS being so incisive at times the FA-12 could add the right infusion of warmth to  the sound and be the perfect mix. The TT2/HMS is not slouch on it own, but I just love what the FA-10 adds to sound from an amp standpoint.  I’ll hold out on disclosing the exact mods until it’s finished, but I did hint at it in another post.



I've only heard the TT2 with the 12 and to my ears they paired beautifully. The TT2 is a lot smoother in the first place compared my hugo2 (which really benefits from the Fa12's tuning), but i still found the 12 gave some additional body and texture which i preferred to listening straight out the TT2, but i wouldnt say it was better just a matter of taste as i would happily have the TT2 back in my system tomorrow and listen straight out of it all day long. Then add the M-Scaler and its simply stunning, probably the best i've heard but i would love to hear it through the 12's class A filter. I would also like to compare to the Venus2, which couldnt be more different, but the soundstage alone is to die for, you can virtually walk around in it and the texturing is almost their to touch...slight sense of witchcraft about it


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> I've only heard the TT2 with the 12 and to my ears they paired beautifully. The TT2 is a lot smoother in the first place compared my hugo2 (which really benefits from the Fa12's tuning), but i still found the 12 gave some additional body and texture which i preferred to listening straight out the TT2, but i wouldnt say it was better just a matter of taste as i would happily have the TT2 back in my system tomorrow and listen straight out of it all day long. Then add the M-Scaler and its simply stunning, probably the best i've heard but i would love to hear it through the 12's class A filter. I would also like to compare to the Venus2, which couldnt be more different, but the soundstage alone is to die for, you can virtually walk around in it and the texturing is almost their to touch...slight sense of witchcraft about it


Nice, I’m so curious about R2R DAC’s. I would love to get a listen to one. I also think you’re right about a TT2/FA-12 pairing. I think the two would make for some outstanding listening. The TT2 also throws a huge soundstage with nice depth and insight into each note. It would nice to do a side by side with your Venus 2 to hear how differently they handle music.


----------



## Blizniak

Ordered FA-10, can't wait to compare it to my trusty 789.


----------



## manishex

Nice, let us know how they compare. I think the 789 will focus on treble whilst the flux will focus on everything else.


----------



## aleniola76

manishex said:


> Nice, let us know how they compare


+ 1! 
I own a Monolith THX and an SMLS SH9 coming tomorrow....Flux is on my radar and I am looking forward reading how it performs vs Massdrop THX


----------



## Klmahnn

aleniola76 said:


> + 1!
> I own a Monolith THX and an SMLS SH9 coming tomorrow....Flux is on my radar and I am looking forward reading how it performs vs Massdrop THX


+ 2!

I’ve always been curious about the Beyerdynamic A2. How does it compare to the THX? Have you tried the higher output impedance with higher impedance headphones per chance?


----------



## aleniola76

Klmahnn said:


> + 2!
> 
> I’ve always been curious about the Beyerdynamic A2. How does it compare to the THX? Have you tried the higher output impedance with higher impedance headphones per chance?


Hi,
A2 sounds a bit warmer to my ears, especially when you set the output impedance at 100 ohm. THX is more “dry” on the bass and sharper on treble. I use these amps with Beyer 1990pro and 1770pro. I find the 1990 pro to match better with the A2, while 1770 is good with THX as it brings the mid forward.
That said, I don’t think the A2 is worth the pricelist tag.


----------



## Klmahnn

aleniola76 said:


> Hi,
> A2 sounds a bit warmer to my ears, especially when you set the output impedance at 100 ohm. THX is more “dry” on the bass and sharper on treble. I use these amps with Beyer 1990pro and 1770pro. I find the 1990 pro to match better with the A2, while 1770 is good with THX as it brings the mid forward.
> That said, I don’t think the A2 is worth the pricelist tag.


Interesting thanks! I’ve seen the price drop quite heavily recently on Amazon.de but have also seen some complaints on the build. Quite a few have commented on the price tag also.


----------



## aleniola76

Klmahnn said:


> complaints on the build.


they did not receive the A2 then  Build quality is super, this is a very solid amp and a nice looking one. Not sure what anyone could complain about. 
On the Amazon offers...be careful, there is a lot of scam lately. Lots of fake vendors offering used items "in very good confition" that will ask you for an email contact before confirming the order. On the email, they will ask you a direct transfer of money so they can skip Amazon fees and keep a low price for you. If you do that, you lose any Amazon protection on your purchase and clearly you will not receive the good you paid for.


----------



## Klmahnn

aleniola76 said:


> they did not receive the A2 then  Build quality is super, this is a very solid amp and a nice looking one. Not sure what anyone could complain about.
> On the Amazon offers...be careful, there is a lot of scam lately. Lots of fake vendors offering used items "in very good confition" that will ask you for an email contact before confirming the order. On the email, they will ask you a direct transfer of money so they can skip Amazon fees and keep a low price for you. If you do that, you lose any Amazon protection on your purchase and clearly you will not receive the good you paid for.


I love the look of it! Too few amps let you peer into the circuitry, the other I can think of off the top of my head is funnily enough what brought me to this thread - Flux Lab's IRIY dac/amp.

I've seen those scams, thanks for pointing them out! On this occasion, Amazon themselves were selling it for 723 euros (not through a 3rd party seller). I didn't pull the trigger as there are some other single-ended options that I now have my eye on that aren't much more, like the SPL Phonitor SE that comes in around 925-ish euros if I remember correctly, and others that are much less.


----------



## sahmen

So whatever happened to the Volot?  Any news on that front? At this point, it seems set on course to miss the holiday season, and hence a 2020 last quarter release. Does that seem like a right guess?


----------



## manishex

I was told it will come out after 2 month. Be similar to the fa-10 at 16 Watts but sound richer. Retail price approx 2.4k usd


----------



## sahmen

manishex said:


> I was told it will come out after 2 month. Be similar to the fa-10 at 16 Watts but sound richer. Retail price approx 2.4k usd



It's what I just learnt too, chatting with the guy on Facebook ; i.e. release postponed for at least 2 months owing to Covid-19-related reasons.  The price seems good, but I think it would be more competitive if it had a pre-amp stage.  I just told the guy that in the chat, and I do not know how he is going to respond. The Violectric V550 that has just been released on Drop is a powerful amp with a preamp (not to mention pedigree and name recognition) for the same projected price as the Volot.  That could make for some stiff competition right there, especially, if Volot has no pre amp.


----------



## teknorob23

sahmen said:


> It's what I just learnt too, chatting with the guy on Facebook ; i.e. release postponed for at least 2 months owing to Covid-19-related reasons.  The price seems good, but I think it would be more competitive if it had a pre-amp stage.  I just told the guy that in the chat, and I do not know how he is going to respond. The Violectric V550 that has just been released on Drop is a powerful amp with a preamp (not to mention pedigree and name recognition) for the same projected price as the Volot.  That could make for some stiff competition right there, especially, if Volot has no pre amp.



Yep i think they had a pretty hard time with  COVID. On the Volot I'm kind of with you, i'd really like a preamp stage too. My main set up is in the living room, where i have home cinema and i'd really like to run a decent pre-amp into my power amps for 2 channel listening. I'm low on allocated real estate so separate Headamp and Pre-amp is tough sell with the wife. On the real estate front, the Volot is full width so thats a potential issue for me at least too.

As you say at this sort of price, more options come in to the frame as do expectations when it comes to feature sets. That said, as i've yet to hear another SS amp with tuning that it i prefer to my FA12, if the Volot does capture this and take it reference levels, it might still be very hard to look elsewhere.


----------



## Terriero

teknorob23 said:


> Yep i think they had a pretty hard time with  COVID. On the Volot I'm kind of with you, i'd really like a preamp stage too. My main set up is in the living room, where i have home cinema and i'd really like to run a decent pre-amp into my power amps for 2 channel listening. I'm low on allocated real estate so separate Headamp and Pre-amp is tough sell with the wife. On the real estate front, the Volot is full width so thats a potential issue for me at least too.
> 
> As you say at this sort of price, more options come in to the frame as do expectations when it comes to feature sets. That said, as i've yet to hear another SS amp with tuning that it i prefer to my FA12, if the Volot does capture this and take it reference levels, it might still be very hard to look elsewhere.


Like you already know, here is another one that sum for a preamp feature in the Volot... I hope that Flux labs read the forum... Also I want a remote controller   
By the way, @Slim1970 have you received your FA10?, I'm waiting for your impressions with HD 800S on them. And one other thing, when you connect your Z1R to FA10 (I suppose with the kimber cable), is that kimber with a 6,3 mm end or XLR (I though that all kimber cables were 4,4 mm)? Thanks.


----------



## Slim1970

Terriero said:


> Like you already know, here is another one that sum for a preamp feature in the Volot... I hope that Flux labs read the forum... Also I want a remote controller
> By the way, @Slim1970 have you received your FA10?, I'm waiting for your impressions with HD 800S on them. And one other thing, when you connect your Z1R to FA10 (I suppose with the kimber cable), is that kimber with a 6,3 mm end or XLR (I though that all kimber cables were 4,4 mm)? Thanks.


Not yet, hopefully this week my modded FA-10 will arrive. In the mean time, I’ve been enjoying my HD800S’s directly out of my new RME Pro. I setup a PEQ profile for it and they sound sublime. Currently I have a 6.3mm Sony/Kimber cable on my Z1R’s. I do have a 4.4mm Sony/Kimber cable that I haven’t taken out of the box. I have a 4.4mm to 4-Pin XLR adapter for it as well. I just haven’t had the urge use them yet since the Z1R’s are so easy to drive single ended.

I’m in the same boat as everyone else is on the Volot. I’m waiting for it’s release and waiting to hear some sound impressions on it. The Violectric offerings seem really attractive. Not that I need either one, but curiosity gets the better of me sometimes


----------



## gancanjam

Curious to know if anyone knows the Volot sound signature after talking to Flux labs team. Will it be a big brother to FA 10, FA Pro , FA 12 or something totally different ?


----------



## sahmen

Terriero said:


> Like you already know, here is another one that sum for a preamp feature in the Volot... I hope that Flux labs read the forum... Also I want a remote controller
> By the way, @Slim1970 have you received your FA10?, I'm waiting for your impressions with HD 800S on them. And one other thing, when you connect your Z1R to FA10 (I suppose with the kimber cable), is that kimber with a 6,3 mm end or XLR (I though that all kimber cables were 4,4 mm)? Thanks.



The Flux Labs guy I was chatting with about adding a pre-amp to the Volot just responded :

"Just talk with our engineer, and we will decide to equip Volot amplifier as an option. Details will be share at our public a bit later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





"

The English has to be translated, but it seems to me that a Volot with a pre-amp option is now in the works. I for one can't wait to hear the related details they will share with the public later. I'm all eyes and ears.


----------



## manishex

Since its 16 Watts, i think they just did a dual mono balanced of the fa-10 with nicer components. The person I talked to said a "richer than the fa-10"


----------



## Slim1970

manishex said:


> Since its 16 Watts, i think they just did a dual mono balanced of the fa-10 with nicer components. The person I talked to said a "richer than the fa-10"


This is kind of what I did to my FA-10. I upgraded a few components to improve the sound of it. It’s headed back my way and I’ll be able to share more thoughts on my modded FA-10 once I get it. Along with a few choice headphone, namely the HD800S’s, TC’s, and Susvara’s


----------



## Bhk1004

Slim1970 said:


> This is kind of what I did to my FA-10. I upgraded a few components to improve the sound of it. It’s headed back my way and I’ll be able to share more thoughts on my modded FA-10 once I get it. Along with a few choice headphone, namely the HD800S’s, TC’s, and Susvara’s


details on what you changed as well.


----------



## rev92

Hi guys, we've just published our review of the Flux FCN-10, do you agree? 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/reviews


----------



## manishex

Really can't decide between the fa-10 and fa-12. Anyone around London have one of these? I will buy the other and we can compare


----------



## Sound Eq (Nov 25, 2020)

Hi everyone, I would like to ask if  Flux FCN-10  would be a good option for my he1000v1 and Hifiman he1000se

I know power wise it can, but I am more curious about the tonality of the the FCN-10, as hifiman headphones would benefit from amp/dac that are not analytical or cold sounding, and favor more something that has a tonality with body and weight, especially in the midrange, and also not to be gentle on the highs so that HE1000se will not become intolerable

I tried some high end gustard and they were not a good match at all with hifiman, so for me tonality is key when it comes to choosing

I would like to make a decision whether Vioelectric 590 or 550 would be a better choice than FCN-10 for my hifiman tonality wise


----------



## NickT23

Sound Eq said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to ask if  Flux FCN-10  would be a good option for my he1000v1 and Hifiman he1000se
> 
> I know power wise it can, but I am more curious about the tonality of the the FCN-10, as hifiman headphones would benefit from amp/dac that are not analytical or cold sounding, and favor more something that has a tonality with body and weight, especially in the midrange, and also not to be gentle on the highs so that HE1000se will not become intolerable
> 
> ...


Hi, long time I have not respond to this thread but will be more active once the Volot exists and am interested. Now, the answer is yes if you want weight and transparency. However, it will not take a way that harsh brightness but somewhat control the treble. Because I feel that nuetral class A amp usually while change the character by adding its signature but they also retains thee headphone sound signature. Hifiman is popular with Class A Amp and the answer is yes. The tonality will do well with HE1000Se and am not a big fan of speaker amps on HE1000 V2 and am pretty sure the HE1000Se is also the same. I have not tried the HE100Se though. As for the Vioelectric 590 or 550, never heard before and dont know much about that. My strong answer is still the FCN-10 or FA-10. 

Am waiting for the Volot and I know am taking advantage of people. Am waiting for one of them to actually own the FA-10 and the Volot for the sake of A/B test since not everyone of us are fortunate to demo all of them. Sad reality and its the truth.


----------



## NickT23

manishex said:


> Really can't decide between the fa-10 and fa-12. Anyone around London have one of these? I will buy the other and we can compare


Hi, do you get to demo both FA-10 and FA-12 ? Its not very hard to choose and in simple terms, you want nuetral, transparency and power, go for FA-10. Want a more smoother, engaging and warmer, go for FA-12. Your mileage may vary with preferences and headphones. If opt for FA-12 you have competition outside of that warm class A category such as Rebel Amp, Ad gd and etc. However, I am yet to see an alternative for FA-10.


----------



## gancanjam

Sound Eq said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to ask if  Flux FCN-10  would be a good option for my he1000v1 and Hifiman he1000se
> 
> I know power wise it can, but I am more curious about the tonality of the the FCN-10, as hifiman headphones would benefit from amp/dac that are not analytical or cold sounding, and favor more something that has a tonality with body and weight, especially in the midrange, and also not to be gentle on the highs so that HE1000se will not become intolerable
> 
> ...



FCN-10 and HE1000 V1 pairing is very good, body and weight are there. With certain Amps, V1 can sound slower and/or too smooth but with FCN-10 it sounds lively but yet retaining it's grounded warm composure. Pairing brings out good details but still not analytical sounding. Instruments such as Flute, String instruments and Piano sounds real and they are a strong suite. V1 leans towards Sub bass while FCN-10 leans towards Mid bass by their DNA, this combo though, covers Bass in all spectrums with good layering, more so present in Mid bass area where Beats, drums and percussions are a delight to listen to with good punch. Highs have the sharp edges softened but is very much present. This combo is also reasonably forgiving and does not nitpick recordings. Overall this pairing is Warm, musical, adequately detailed, dynamic presentation. Even yesterday i was listening to this combo till 1 AM before hitting the bed, was an non fatiguing easy listen yet not boring,  with enough details, speed, dynamics and separation

If you already have a good DAC then just go with FA-10 without the DAC option, it will still retain it's Full/Musical/Smooth/Fun signature with many DACs. If you are buying with the DAC as well i.e. FCN-10 then still not bad to keep in rotation for $600  the DAC part as this will bring another signature, the in built DAC is not the most detailed one but it will give an engaging experience

I have never listened to SE or Violelectric 590 to provide a comparison, my guess is 590 needs some special magic to beat FCN-10 & HE1000 V1 combo and to justify it's 3 times the cost of FCN-10.  Would suggest you can also follow the V281 (if it's signature is similar to the new V590) and V590 forums to understand the synergy with HE1000 to make a determination


----------



## qsk78 (Nov 26, 2020)

rev92 said:


> Hi guys, we've just published our review of the Flux FCN-10, do you agree?


Is the FCN-10 a balanced DAC/Amp? I see that you used an XLR output in your review...or it is like the FA-10 which is for whatever strange reason not balanced but have an XLR output...By the way, what is the need for the XLR if it is not balanced?


----------



## NickT23

qsk78 said:


> Is the FCN-10 a balanced DAC/Amp? I see that you used an XLR output in your review...or it is like the FA-10 which is for whatever strange reason not balanced but have an XLR output...By the way, what is the need for the XLR if it is not balanced?


Convenience


----------



## qsk78 (Nov 26, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Convenience


Well, if this is an XLR 4 pin - does that mean that the ground is separated anyhow?
And I see the XLR inputs on the rear side of the FA-10.  Are they also fake inputs and I cannot connect a balanced DAC?


----------



## NickT23

qsk78 said:


> Well, if this is an XLR 4 pin - does that mean that the ground is separated anyhow?
> And I see the XLR inputs on the rear side of the FA-10.  Are they also fake inputs and I cannot connect a balanced DAC?


Nope. You can connect to balanced DAC but you are not going to have full balanced sound. For it to be fully balance, headphones, amps and dacs must be fully balanced as well. But since the design topology is so good, single ended and balance has no difference even if one does measurements. FA-10 is too powerful even so.


----------



## qsk78 (Nov 27, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Nope. You can connect to balanced DAC but you are not going to have full balanced sound. For it to be fully balance, headphones, amps and dacs must be fully balanced as well. But since the design topology is so good, single ended and balance has no difference even if one does measurements. FA-10 is too powerful even so.


So I can keep all my XLR interconnects (to my balanced DAC) and all my XLR headphone cables, right? No need to switch to RCAs or a 6.3 jack, right?


----------



## NickT23

qsk78 said:


> So I can keep all my XLR interconnects (to my balanced DAC) and all my XLR headphone cables, right? No need to switch to RCAs or a 6.3 jack, right?


Yeah. You can interchange between RCA or XLR and its up to you. But no sonic differences. Again, another debate of single ended vs balance !


----------



## Slim1970

Okay everyone, I got my modded FA-10 back today after having a good number of caps modded with Mundorf and Elna Silmic II caps. I want to give a big thank you to @ksorota for taking on this challenging project. He’s such a talented individual and a great person. For the sake of not rehashing my thoughts on the mod, I’m just going to copy a portion of what I sent him after hearing my modded FA-10.

“_Early impressions are the FA-10 sounds wide open with more depth, more resolve, and more transparency. It's sounds more holographic in nature and out of your head now. There doesn't seem to be a any loss of dynamics and clarity. In fact, I would say both got a bump up. The FA-10 sounds more reference now. 

I think my Hifi Tuning Supreme fuse is coming into play more than ever now. The FA-10 sounds faster with much better attack. The treble is airy. Vocals sound and stringed instruments sound absolutely amazing. I can clearly hear the echoes and reverb used by the artist. You do give up some warmth. It's not as warm as it was in stock form. I think I want to try the copper version of the Hifi Tuning Supreme fuse just to invoke some warmth back into it or maybe I have to let all these new caps, fuse burn in. Everything sounds sharp, crisp and incredibly detailed now. I kind of like it  . It sounds like a new amp_”

The FA-10 got a huge dose of resolution, sound space and air. Notes are still weighted but have more bite now. The sound field is more expansive with incredible depth and layering. This is one thing the stock version of the amp was missing. The stock version of the FA-10 sounds a bit closed in. Not that having an intimate sound is a bad thing, but the cap mod fixes this and I couldn’t be more pleased with the results. I’m going to speed up the burn-in process by putting some pink noise through the amp while I’m at work for a few days. As of right now, I must say the modded FA-10 is among the best amps I’ve heard. It was very good before but the mods have really tipped the scales to my ears. Many thanks @ksorota!


----------



## NickT23

Slim1970 said:


> Okay everyone, I got my modded FA-10 back today after having a good number of caps modded with Mundorf and Elna Silmic II caps. I want to give a big thank you to @ksorota for taking on this challenging project. He’s such a talented individual and a great person. For the sake of not rehashing my thoughts on the mod, I’m just going to copy a portion of what I sent him after hearing my modded FA-10.
> 
> “_Early impressions are the FA-10 sounds wide open with more depth, more resolve, and more transparency. It's sounds more holographic in nature and out of your head now. There doesn't seem to be a any loss of dynamics and clarity. In fact, I would say both got a bump up. The FA-10 sounds more reference now.
> 
> ...


How do you mod it ?


----------



## Slim1970

NickT23 said:


> How do you mod it ?


Contact @ksorota


----------



## NickT23

Slim1970 said:


> Contact @ksorota


Ya, sorry. I dint saw the @ksorota  on your post !


----------



## Slim1970

NickT23 said:


> Ya, sorry. I dint saw the @ksorota  on your post !


No problem, I plan on doing some more listening today after a full night of burn-in to see if the sound has progressed any. It's going to take a minute for all the new caps to properly settle.


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Hello, did you receive your 800s?


@cfranchi I'm finally giving the HD800S's a go with the FA-10. I'm using medium gain at about 1 o'clock on the volume wheel. I must say the FA-10 drives them with ease and finesse. Whoever thinks the HD800S's are bass lite are misguided. If bass is in the song the HD800S's gives it to you. It's not basshead bass like on my Z1R's but it is good quality bass. It's deep, textured, and well defined like good bass should be. Bass on the HD800S's is also quite extended on the FA-10.

I'm hearing so many details in the music. The dynamics on the HD800S's is crazy good. The HD800S's sound punchy and fast on the FA-10. Soundstage and imaging, which are the HD800S's forte, are on full display and are among very best I've heard on a headphone out of the FA-10. Everything sounds crystal clear with laser like focus. Normally the HD800S's are like a precision tool. The HD800S's on the FA-10 is where precision meets musicality. The HD800S's feel right at home on my modded FA-10. Good grief do they sound good!


----------



## qsk78 (Nov 28, 2020)

Interesting,  I sold my 800S last year since to me they can't compete with TOTL palanar-magnetic headphones bass wise - I mean quality wise. Nothing is wrong with the 800S, it's just dynamic vs planar-magnetic technology.


----------



## Sound Eq (Nov 28, 2020)

can i ask plz what is the difference between fa 10 pro, fa 10 and fa 12

also do they differ in sound signatures

also which dac is a good match with those, that is not above 1k usd


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## Terriero (Nov 28, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> @cfranchi I'm finally giving the HD800S's a go with the FA-10. I'm using medium gain at about 1 o'clock on the volume wheel. I must say the FA-10 drives them with ease and finesse. Whoever thinks the HD800S's are bass lite are misguided. If bass is in the song the HD800S's gives it to you. It's not basshead bass like on my Z1R's but it is good quality bass. It's deep, textured, and well defined like good bass should be. Bass on the HD800S's is also quite extended on the FA-10.
> 
> I'm hearing so many details in the music. The dynamics on the HD800S's is crazy good. The HD800S's sound punchy and fast on the FA-10. Soundstage and imaging, which are the HD800S's forte, are on full display and are among very best I've heard on a headphone out of the FA-10. Everything sounds crystal clear with laser like focus. Normally the HD800S's are like a precision tool. The HD800S's on the FA-10 is where precision meets musicality. The HD800S's feel right at home on my modded FA-10. Good grief do they sound good!


Thank you very much for that... A lot of people recommend to me a tube amp for the HD 800 but I wanted to see how this class A deals with them and I like very much what you said. Could you compare against your other solid state amps (with HD 800), for reference? Thanks again.


----------



## Roasty

I've tried searching this thread but didn't get any good results. Anyone seen/done a comparison with the gsx mini yet?


----------



## Slim1970

qsk78 said:


> Interesting,  I sold my 800S last year since to me they can't compete with TOTL palanar-magnetic headphones bass wise - I mean quality wise. Nothing is wrong with the 800S, it's just dynamic vs planar-magnetic technology.


They are different and it is a preference as to which technology you prefer. I like them both. For a dynamic driver headphone the Sennheiser HD800S’s and Focal Utopia’s are the best I’ve heard. Both are considered bass lite, but both have some of the best bass on a headphone. Sure planar bass is faster and is able to dig a bit deeper but both technologies are very enjoyable. I feel like I won because my modded FA-10 is able to get the most out of both types. 

Just a quick update, my modded FA-10 sounds so resolving now. After about 20 hours of pink noise the bass has gotten deeper, micro and macro dynamics are so much better. Transients aren’t as sharp sounding but are still snappy and fast. The sounds is starting to smooth out just as I hoped. The original sound characteristics of the FA-10 is still there. It just sounds more evolved, more refined, more dynamic, and grand. It’s like a change of venues. The sound went from being in a club setting to being in a auditorium. It’s a lot more expansive now, deeper and wider. I love it.


----------



## Slim1970

Roasty said:


> I've tried searching this thread but didn't get any good results. Anyone seen/done a comparison with the gsx mini yet?


@ksorota owned the gs-x mini for a short time period. He’s heard the FA-10 stock and modded. Maybe he could chime in with a comparison.


----------



## Terriero

Slim1970 said:


> They are different and it is a preference as to which technology you prefer. I like them both. For a dynamic driver headphone the Sennheiser HD800S’s and Focal Utopia’s are the best I’ve heard. Both are considered bass lite, but both have some of the best bass on a headphone. Sure planar bass is faster and is able to dig a bit deeper but both technologies are very enjoyable. I feel like I won because my modded FA-10 is able to get the most out of both types.
> 
> Just a quick update, my modded FA-10 sounds so resolving now. After about 20 hours of pink noise the bass has gotten deeper, micro and macro dynamics are so much better. Transients aren’t as sharp sounding but are still snappy and fast. The sounds is starting to smooth out just as I hoped. The original sound characteristics of the FA-10 is still there. It just sounds more evolved, more refined, more dynamic, and grand. It’s like a change of venues. The sound went from being in a club setting to being in a auditorium. It’s a lot more expansive now, deeper and wider. I love it.


Maybe you have there an unbalanced little Volot, with all the modifications @ksorota made


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## Slim1970 (Nov 28, 2020)

Terriero said:


> Maybe you have there an unbalanced little Volot, with all the modifications @ksorota made


My FA-10 sounds so good. It’s definitely a supped up version of the amp. Even if I got the Volot, I’d still send it to @ksorota for modding, lol. The use of better components makes a huge difference in the sound quality.


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## tholt

Slim1970 said:


> My FA-10 sounds so good. It’s definitely a supped up version of the amp. Even if I got the Volot, I’d still send it to @ksorota for modding, lol. The use of better components makes a huge difference in the sound quality.


Curious what compelled you to mod it, and cost? You can PM me if you want. Cheers to the results tho


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## qsk78 (Nov 29, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask plz what is the difference between fa 10 pro, fa 10 and fa 12


  I asked Flux about the deference between 10 and 10 Pro (we spoke in Russian so may be I have more details than the English description somewhere in this thread):
- 10 is more organic sounding, more musical, slightly darker and emotional, highs and mids are more in your face, bass less technical but with more body- more universal solution,
- 10 Pro is all about technical abilities, more linear and analytical sounding, with more detailed highs, bass is more precise and fast.

So the choice will depend on your DAC signature, headphones an personals preferences.

I personally like the Pro description better but who knows how it can match with my Violectric DAC V800 which is more on a neutral  and technical side too, as well as my planars.


P.S. I still cannot decide which amp to choose: GS-X Mini, Burson Soloist 3X Performance, Flux FA 10/10 Pro, iCAN Pro...or maybe even HPA V281 (which is hard to find). I was more on Violectric side in the past.


----------



## Slim1970

qsk78 said:


> I asked Flux about the deference between 10 and 10 Pro (we spoke in Russian so may be I have more details than the English description somewhere in this thread):
> - 10 is more organic sounding, more musical, slightly darker and emotional, highs and mids are more in your face, bass less technical but with more body- more universal solution,
> - 10 Pro is all about technical abilities, more linear and analytical sounding, with more detailed highs, bass is more precise and fast.
> 
> ...


I use to own the Pro iCan. It was my first introduction to upper tier amps. I really like that amp but it was too neutral for me and y Susvara's sounded flat on it. I also had the Burson Conductor 3X Reference I recently sold. It was very good. It was spacious sounding, had very good dynamics, and resolution. Compared to the unmodded FA-10, The 3XR doesn't have the same levels of bass punch or impact. The dynamics are on par with each, but the midrange lacks body and the sound overall isn't full. Again using my Susvara's as the standard, the 3XR did nothing for them musically. 

Enter the FA-10. Unmodded, the FA-10 best both of these amps in almost every area of sound to my ears except soundstage and resolve. This is the main reason I wanted the mods as this is what I felt the FA-10 lacks in my opinion. With the mods, soundstage and resolution greatly improved. Also, the mods elevated everything else good about the stock version of the amp.


----------



## NickT23

Terriero said:


> Maybe you have there an unbalanced little Volot, with all the modifications @ksorota made


Well said." unabalance little Volot ! "


----------



## NickT23

qsk78 said:


> I asked Flux about the deference between 10 and 10 Pro (we spoke in Russian so may be I have more details than the English description somewhere in this thread):
> - 10 is more organic sounding, more musical, slightly darker and emotional, highs and mids are more in your face, bass less technical but with more body- more universal solution,
> - 10 Pro is all about technical abilities, more linear and analytical sounding, with more detailed highs, bass is more precise and fast.
> 
> ...


Hello again, I know what Vitality means between FA-10 and FA-10 pro. In simple words, one more fun and dynamic while the other is serious analytical. Having linear and analytical sounding is rare for Class A amps because Class A is all about fun and musical. So if you are an analytical listener who loves clarity and details but want your typical Class A sound (warm, big ballsy bass, smooth treble) go for FA-10 pro but depending on your preference and synergy of headphones. I am SUPER confident headphone such as HD800 or HD800S sounds good with FA-10 pro if you dont want tubes or Warm Class A output, this is because having more tube romance will colour the orginal sound signature, but with FA-10 pro neutrality and retaining Class-A signature, you have HD 800 S nuetral-bright signature with all those details and highs without having to add too much musical colouration. Like I said, personal preference. I cant comment on GS-X Mini, Burson Soloist 3X Performance, iCAN Pro and  HPA V281 as never heard or familiar with them. 

But for me, _I would still go for *FA-10 over FA-10 pro* for all out pure enjoyment_. If I have the Susvara, I take advantage of the plannar technical capabilities combine with the FA-10 musical presence, I think it would be the perfect combination. If I were to get FA-10 pro, I would rather go for maybe Vioelectric or better yet THX amps (more analytical). Pure analytical and transparent would be HPA-4 solid state. It all depends on what you like and overall preference as well as your headphone possession. 

Also, I think the Volot will be more based on FA-10 then FA-10 pro. But do note this, both are awesome. I think FA-10 pro is a rare Class A amps for what its able to do.


----------



## Roasty

Slim1970 said:


> I use to own the Pro iCan. It was my first introduction to upper tier amps. I really like that amp but it was too neutral for me and y Susvara's sounded flat on it. I also had the Burson Conductor 3X Reference I recently sold. It was very good. It was spacious sounding, had very good dynamics, and resolution. Compared to the unmodded FA-10, The 3XR doesn't have the same levels of bass punch or impact. The dynamics are on par with each, but the midrange lacks body and the sound overall isn't full. Again using my Susvara's as the standard, the 3XR did nothing for them musically.
> 
> Enter the FA-10. Unmodded, the FA-10 best both of these amps in almost every area of sound to my ears except soundstage and resolve. This is the main reason I wanted the mods as this is what I felt the FA-10 lacks in my opinion. With the mods, soundstage and resolution greatly improved. Also, the mods elevated everything else good about the stock version of the amp.



That was a helpful post. I had recently sold my gsx mini and kind of regretted it. Was intending to buy another one, but was also looking at the fa-10 and burson. Essentially I just wanted a relatively small form factor SS amp to listen to some music whilst waiting for my tube amp to warm up, and for quick short listening sessions.


----------



## manishex

Roasty said:


> That was a helpful post. I had recently sold my gsx mini and kind of regretted it. Was intending to buy another one, but was also looking at the fa-10 and burson. Essentially I just wanted a relatively small form factor SS amp to listen to some music whilst waiting for my tube amp to warm up, and for quick short listening sessions.


Which headphones do you have? The fa-12 should sound similar to the older bursons. If you don't need lots of power they can be a good choice. Rob loves them and there aren't too many reviews on them.


----------



## Roasty

manishex said:


> Which headphones do you have? The fa-12 should sound similar to the older bursons. If you don't need lots of power they can be a good choice. Rob loves them and there aren't too many reviews on them.



TC, Susvara, Utopia, and an incoming gs3000e. So I think probably the ss amp with the Utopia and grado and leave the TC and Sus for the tube amp.


----------



## cfranchi

Roasty said:


> That was a helpful post. I had recently sold my gsx mini and kind of regretted it. Was intending to buy another one, but was also looking at the fa-10 and burson. Essentially I just wanted a relatively small form factor SS amp to listen to some music whilst waiting for my tube amp to warm up, and for quick short listening sessions.



Just about warm up, FA-10 (like many class A amp) need some warm up to sound its best (more effortless, smoother) : I always power on my FA-10 around 30min before listening it...


----------



## cfranchi

Roasty said:


> TC, Susvara, Utopia, and an incoming gs3000e. So I think probably the ss amp with the Utopia and grado and leave the TC and Sus for the tube amp.



It seems that FA-10 and Utopia was not the best pairing from what I remember from a user in this thread.


----------



## Roasty

cfranchi said:


> Just about warm up, FA-10 (like many class A amp) need some warm up to sound its best (more effortless, smoother) : I always power on my FA-10 around 30min before listening it...



Oh... I see. I guess I can't do a quick and dirty.. 




cfranchi said:


> It seems that FA-10 and Utopia was not the best pairing from what I remember from a user in this thread.



Ah thanks for that info! I will try and search this thread again.


----------



## ksorota

Roasty said:


> I've tried searching this thread but didn't get any good results. Anyone seen/done a comparison with the gsx mini yet?



As @Slim1970  mentioned, I did own the GSX Mini for a while...although it was back in April so I could not do a direct comparison.  

What I can say is that the mini is a great amp with really excellent dynamics at all listening levels.  If you have ever heard the GLMK2, then you have an idea of how the mini sounds, and with the new golden reference power supply, the GLMK2 is nearly there, minus the power.  

I ended up selling the mini after comparing it to my modded LP with 12au7 7730 tubes...and HD600.  The pairing between those two  could not be beat.  If detail is what you are after, the mini will get you there, if emotion is what you want, then the LP was the clear winner.  One of the big reasons I sold the mini was that I was having a lot more fun with the LP and more enjoyment. The GSX mini is a hint warm and a better amp for low level listening as it somehow retains all the dynamics at every listening level and never distorts. 

The Flux FA10 (pre mod) is extremely close in delivery to my modded LP and after the mod surpasses the LP in both emotion and detail.  The week I had the FA10 prior to the mod I became enamored with the sound on HE6 and JARHD600 and started thinking about selling the LP.  While the mod was underway and I was back to using the LP, I then realized that after normalizing to the sound, the little tube amp was delivering near the same level as the Flux, but also had more depth to the soundstage.  After the mod was done and I again hooked the Flux up I was blown away and again have started contemplating selling the LP to fund other adventures in audio (namely purchase a Flux).  The mod enhances the detail delivery at all frequencies, and adds some of the depth and layering in the soundstage that I enjoy with the LP.  I still miss the FA-10 and if not for the Vidar on its way to my door, I would have ordered one already.  I am going to be comparing the two directly soon enough!!!

If i were to pick one now...based on memory I would choose the Flux . The mini and the GLMK2 are amazingly close after adding the power supply, and for single ended use I am not sure it would be noticeable with low impedance headphones.


----------



## Roasty

ksorota said:


> As @Slim1970  mentioned, I did own the GSX Mini for a while...although it was back in April so I could not do a direct comparison.
> 
> What I can say is that the mini is a great amp with really excellent dynamics at all listening levels.  If you have ever heard the GLMK2, then you have an idea of how the mini sounds, and with the new golden reference power supply, the GLMK2 is nearly there, minus the power.
> 
> ...



Ahh.. Thanks very much for sharing. 
I did own the gsx mini but sold it. Now having some regrets.. I've never tried the glmk2 nor the gsxmk2. The flux fa-10 does come in at a much better price point, so it has always piqued my interest.


----------



## ksorota

Roasty said:


> Ahh.. Thanks very much for sharing.
> I did own the gsx mini but sold it. Now having some regrets.. I've never tried the glmk2 nor the gsxmk2. The flux fa-10 does come in at a much better price point, so it has always piqued my interest.


That was another big reason for me selling it. The mini is a great amp, but just couldn’t compete synergistically with the HD600... the Flux is a better SS match with these headphones!


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> I use to own the Pro iCan. It was my first introduction to upper tier amps. I really like that amp but it was too neutral for me and y Susvara's sounded flat on it. I also had the Burson Conductor 3X Reference I recently sold. It was very good. It was spacious sounding, had very good dynamics, and resolution. Compared to the unmodded FA-10, The 3XR doesn't have the same levels of bass punch or impact. The dynamics are on par with each, but the midrange lacks body and the sound overall isn't full. Again using my Susvara's as the standard, the 3XR did nothing for them musically.
> 
> Enter the FA-10. Unmodded, the FA-10 best both of these amps in almost every area of sound to my ears except soundstage and resolve. This is the main reason I wanted the mods as this is what I felt the FA-10 lacks in my opinion. With the mods, soundstage and resolution greatly improved. Also, the mods elevated everything else good about the stock version of the amp.



Will you be getting the soloist 3XP soon?  Roaul had measured it to 15 watts per channel it's class A and "fully balanced" @ the $1k price point.  Obviously it won't have the house Flux sound and will have the Burson sound.   The way people are talking about it the Soloist > Composer 3XR for the amp stage and plus you get the ability to roll op-amps.  

At this point I'm waiting for the Solo 3XP reviews to come in or the Volot to be released.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> Will you be getting the soloist 3XP soon?  Roaul had measured it to 15 watts per channel it's class A and "fully balanced" @ the $1k price point.  Obviously it won't have the house Flux sound and will have the Burson sound.   The way people are talking about it the Soloist > Composer 3XR for the amp stage and plus you get the ability to roll op-amps.
> 
> At this point I'm waiting for the Solo 3XP reviews to come in or the Volot to be released.


I’m still waiting on my shipping confirmation for the Soloist. I’m expecting it today or tomorrow according to Burson. I can’t wait to see how it compares with my newly modded FA-10.


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## rmsanger (Nov 30, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> I’m still waiting on my shipping confirmation for the Soloist. I’m expecting it today or tomorrow according to Burson. I can’t wait to see how it compares with my newly modded FA-10.



I can't wait to hear your opinion... The Soloist thread is saying it takes quite awhile to "warm up" for proper impressions to be made.  Not sure they mean breakin or just warm up like a r2r dac requires.  Needless to say there are some people that are very high on the Soloist however I did see Raoul put his unit up for sale so it can only be so good.

Looks like he retracted his listing

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/closed-burson-soloist-3x-performance-headphones-amplifier.948140/


----------



## manishex

You can also upgrade the op amps on the burson (sparkos). I have a fa-10 on the way and will be able to compare it to the conductor 3 ref. Right now I find the burson to sound polite & mellow which is slightly different to their previous conductors, they changed the way the power is supplied and the general philosophy, nevertheless I have high expectations for the Soloist.


----------



## rmsanger

manishex said:


> You can also upgrade the op amps on the burson (sparkos). I have a fa-10 on the way and will be able to compare it to the conductor 3 ref. Right now I find the burson to sound polite & mellow which is slightly different to their previous conductors, they changed the way the power is supplied and the general philosophy, nevertheless I have high expectations for the Soloist.



Yeah IMO the conductor strength is the DAC stage at least in the 3XP and not the amp stage; I cannot speak for 3XR.

However if you have separates you can get a much better DAC (to your preference) and the focus can be on the amp stage in the Soloist.   So a Soloist 3XP should compare directly to a FA-10 / Pro and then you can do op amp rolling on the burson to tweak the "politeness" you're talking about.

The only thing I struggle with the Soloist layout is that they say it's "fully balanced" but the layout looks a bit sloppy (potentially due to form factor limitations).   But when you see the Volot everything is so cleanly laid out to be fully balanced that at least it appears it should have amazing performance.

Anyway back to flux commentary!


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## Sound Eq (Nov 30, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> I use to own the Pro iCan. It was my first introduction to upper tier amps. I really like that amp but it was too neutral for me and y Susvara's sounded flat on it. I also had the Burson Conductor 3X Reference I recently sold. It was very good. It was spacious sounding, had very good dynamics, and resolution. Compared to the unmodded FA-10, The 3XR doesn't have the same levels of bass punch or impact. The dynamics are on par with each, but the midrange lacks body and the sound overall isn't full. Again using my Susvara's as the standard, the 3XR did nothing for them musically.
> 
> Enter the FA-10. Unmodded, the FA-10 best both of these amps in almost every area of sound to my ears except soundstage and resolve. This is the main reason I wanted the mods as this is what I felt the FA-10 lacks in my opinion. With the mods, soundstage and resolution greatly improved. Also, the mods elevated everything else good about the stock version of the amp.


i had the ifi ican pro, and I felt its a flat sounding amp, yet powerful. Many of us are not into modding things so how would you compare FA-10 in stock form to ifi ican pro. Do you mean FA 10 has less resolution and soundstage than ifi ican pro, which I did not find to have a great sound stage nor resolution to begin with. Ifi ican pro all it gad to it was that its powerful, but had a boring flat sound, and not engaging. I tried ifi ican pro with hugo2 and qutest and ifi idsd pro as dacs, it was simply lacking musicality


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> i had the ifi ican pro, and I felt its a flat sounding amp, yet powerful. Many of us are not into modding things so how would you compare FA-10 in stock form to ifi ican pro. Do you mean FA 10 has less resolution and soundstage than ifi ican pro, which I did not find to have a great sound stage nor resolution to begin with. Ifi ican pro all it gad to it was that its powerful, but had a boring flat sound, and not engaging. I tried ifi ican pro with hugo2 and qutest and ifi idsd pro as dacs, it was simply lacking musicality


That’s pretty much how I found the Pro iCan to be, flat, powerful, and very clean sounding almost to a fault. Pairing the Pro iCan with DACs won’t give you the musical experience because I’ve tried them. The FA-10 in stock form is the complete opposite of Pro iCan sound wise. It’s warmer, fuller sounding, more engaging and more musical. The FA-10 has better bass without the need for xBass. It’s more impactful with more sub bass presence. The midrange on the FA-10 has way more body than the Pro iCan. This is why I like the FA-10 pairing with my Susvara’s, HEKse, and Abyss TC’s.

Notes on the FA-10 have more weight to them. The sound is just as dynamic as the Pro iCan. The treble has wonderful clarity and is not as strident as it is on the Pro iCan. Treble is not laid back per se on the FA-10, but it’s tuned in way to make bright sounding headphones more listenable. The Pro iCan is more detailed but it’s very dry. The FA-10 leans more towards sounding liquid. The FA-10 is stock form has about the same soundstage width as the Pro iCan. The Pro iCan is more insightful so I would say it has a little more soundstage depth, but not by much.

You mentioned the Pro iCan lacked resolution. Looking back on it and hearing both amps, I would give the edge in resolve to the FA-10. But in stock form, the FA-10 is middle of the pack in terms of resolution and transparency compared to more expensive amps. So in stock form, the FA-10 to me is the better performer with a wider range of headphone because of it’s musical yet powerful delivery.


----------



## SQ13

I was debating between FA-10 or 12 and the Soloist 3xp but ended placing the order for soloist. it may be easier for me to roll opamps than to de/solder the resisters, capacitors, etc. if i don’t like the soloist, i can always pick up a Flux later


----------



## Slim1970

SQ13 said:


> I was debating between FA-10 or 12 and the Soloist 3xp but ended placing the order for soloist. it may be easier for me to roll opamps than to de/solder the resisters, capacitors, etc. if i don’t like the soloist, i can always pick up a Flux later


I have a set of Sparkos Labs SS3602's waiting for my Soloist. I liked the performance boost they made over the V6 Vivids in my Conductor 3XR when I had it. I imagine they will do the same for the Soloist. The newer Burson amps are more neutral compared to the Conductor V2+ and older products. The Conductor V2+ has a rich tone much like the FA-10 but its treble is more rolled off. It's the primary reason I sold it. 

The Conductor 3 series has a greatly improved treble response. It's also more open and spacious sounding with improved dynamics. In comparison to the FA-10, the 3XR doesn't sound as muscular or beefy. The notes doesn't have the heft to them as the FA-10 has. The 3XR does sound more refined, but less musical. This is one area I wanted to improve with the mod on the FA-10. Along with adding some air and spaciousness to the FA-10. From what I'm starting to hear as my FA-10 breaks is more refinement and even better technicalities compared to stock form.  

I'm really not expecting the Soloist to outperform my modded FA-10, but it will give me another high performance, reference sounding amp. I think it'll be great with my TT2.


----------



## SQ13

Slim1970 said:


> I have a set of Sparkos Labs SS3602's waiting for my Soloist. I liked the performance boost they made over the V6 Vivids in my Conductor 3XR when I had it. I imagine they will do the same for the Soloist. The newer Burson amps are more neutral compared to the Conductor V2+ and older products. The Conductor V2+ has a rich tone much like the FA-10 but its treble is more rolled off. It's the primary reason I sold it.
> 
> The Conductor 3 series has a greatly improved treble response. It's also more open and spacious sounding with improved dynamics. In comparison to the FA-10, the 3XR doesn't sound as muscular or beefy. The notes doesn't have the heft to them as the FA-10 has. The 3XR does sound more refined, but less musical. This is one area I wanted to improve with the mod on the FA-10. Along with adding some air and spaciousness to the FA-10. From what I'm starting to hear as my FA-10 breaks is more refinement and even better technicalities compared to stock form.
> 
> I'm really not expecting the Soloist to outperform my modded FA-10, but it will give me another high performance, reference sounding amp. I think it'll be great with my TT2.



agreed, the FA10 and Soloist have different sound signature. It will boil down to individual preference. I will order some Sparkos opamp further down the road to evaluate. Other option is to add a tube buffer to the input for a more euphoric sound


----------



## Slim1970

SQ13 said:


> agreed, the FA10 and Soloist have different sound signature. It will boil down to individual preference. I will order some Sparkos opamp further down the road to evaluate. Other option is to add a tube buffer to the input for a more euphoric sound


I didn't think about that. That is an excellent way to relax the sound a bit.


----------



## iFi audio

Slim1970 said:


> That’s pretty much how I found the Pro iCan to be, flat, powerful, and very clean sounding almost to a fault.



Ouch! That's the first time I'm reading that Pro iCAN is flat. All good though, every feedback counts! Thanks


----------



## Sound Eq

iFi audio said:


> Ouch! That's the first time I'm reading that Pro iCAN is flat. All good though, every feedback counts! Thanks


its a great amp no doubt, but its time to look into releasing a new totl amp


----------



## iFi audio

Sound Eq said:


> its a great amp no doubt, but its time to look into releasing a new totl amp



Suffice to say, we're always up to something


----------



## paradoxper

iFi audio said:


> Suffice to say, we're always up to something


Aren't we all.


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Hi, do you get to demo both FA-10 and FA-12 ? Its not very hard to choose and in simple terms, you want nuetral, transparency and power, go for FA-10. Want a more smoother, engaging and warmer, go for FA-12. Your mileage may vary with preferences and headphones. If opt for FA-12 you have competition outside of that warm class A category such as Rebel Amp, Ad gd and etc. However, I am yet to see an alternative for FA-10.


 Have you heard either the fa10 or 12?


----------



## NickT23

teknorob23 said:


> Have you heard either the fa10 or 12?


Not yet


----------



## Sound Eq

so can i ask, with hifman he1000 v1 or he1000se, which amp you prefer, and which dac do u recommend that works great 

simply hifiman he1000 versions love power, even the SE I like it on powerful amps

So I need now also recs for dac to fit the flux , simply put i like full bodied sound, great tight bass, and very natural full mids, sort of speak a musical set up


----------



## teknorob23

NickT23 said:


> Not yet



It’s just I wouldn’t describe either as neutral, both have warmth just 12 has a bit more. Same with transparency I’d place them about equal. I’ve been listening to the 12 balanced with the denafrips Venus2 dac for about a month and I’ve been amazed by its ability to go toe to toe with the denafrips which is incredibly resolving and nuanced. I have v281 coming this weekend so it’ll be exciting to hear how the 12 stands up to it with Venus2. That said the Volot with preamp is sounding more mouth watering by the minute.


----------



## gancanjam

teknorob23 said:


> It’s just I wouldn’t describe either as neutral, both have warmth just 12 has a bit more. Same with transparency I’d place them about equal. I’ve been listening to the 12 balanced with the denafrips Venus2 dac for about a month and I’ve been amazed by its ability to go toe to toe with the denafrips which is incredibly resolving and nuanced. I have v281 coming this weekend so it’ll be exciting to hear how the 12 stands up to it with Venus2. That said the Volot with preamp is sounding more mouth watering by the minute.



Interested in FA10 and V281 comparison, please share


----------



## tholt

gancanjam said:


> Interested in FA10 and V281 comparison, please share


As well. If he has the FA10?


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## sahmen (Dec 2, 2020)

1. Stock FA-10 vs V281 driving the Susvara, the He-6, or the He6SE :  I pick the FA-10 for the extra muscularity it brings to the table, and for that certain class-A "je ne sais quoi" that adds a sonic flavor that Class-A amplification is known for (more "musicality"???)... The V281 is actually quite capable with these cans, and is not by any means outclassed by the FA-10 or too far behind it at all(see items #2 & #3, below).

2. Stock FA-10 vs V281 ; for all round versatility and usability with multiple cans with variable sensitivities and efficiency levels :  I pick the V281 by a mile. (***The pre-gain settings on the V281 can be a very valuable tool in this particular area)

3. Stock Fa-10 vs V281 : for versatility of connectivity options (pre-amp stage), and offering a dual-mono/internally balanced topology when needed : I pick the V281 by another mile   

Yes, I currently own both, and am not planning on parting with either one of them any time soon.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> 1. Stock FA-10 vs V281 driving the Susvara, the He-6, or the He6SE :  I pick the FA-10 for the extra muscularity it brings to the table, and for that certain class-A "je ne sais quoi" that adds a sonic flavor that Class-A amplification is know for (more "musicality"???)... The V281 is actually quite capable with these cans, and is not by any means outclassed by the FA-10 or too far behind it at all(see items #2 & #3, below).
> 
> 2. Stock FA-10 vs V281 ; for all round versatility and usability with multiple cans with variable sensitivities and efficiency levels :  I pick the V281 by a mile.
> 
> ...


I get No. 3 on your list. The FA-10 doesn't have any output options, nor a DAC, and it's not a balanced design. For No.2, I would like to know what you are hearing in the V281's sound signature to make it the more versatile amp with different headphone types? Thanks!


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> I get No. 3 on your list. The FA-10 doesn't have any output options, nor a DAC, and it's not a balanced design. For No.2, I would like to know what you are hearing in the V281's sound signature to make it the more versatile amp with different headphone types? Thanks!



Okay _touché_ regarding #2 - There is some kind of bias there which comes from having used the V281 for more than 4 years without pairing it with any hp--and I mean *any*--which sucks, or has sucked, on it...  I could say the same thing for the stock FA-10 so far, but I have only had it for less than two months now, and only tried it with the Susvara and the LCD-4, so you could say the only real disadvantage the FA-10 faces in that comparison is that the FA-10's trial period has just started, and is still under way, whereas the V281 passes for "true and time-tested," like some vintage wine, that is so "vintage" that it is not even aware that its makers do not make it anymore.  So one could add "durability" to the V281's creds, which is another attribute which is making the FA-10's relative newness look like a disadvantage.  That "disadvantage" is only apparent, in that respect.

The FA-10 has a genuine shot at overcoming the "bias" I have mentioned on both fronts (versatile matchability and durability) by simply proving its own creds over time, but of course it will need some time, and further testing with multiple cans to get there.  In that sense, I am keeping a very open mind on that front, and not necessarily holding the FA-10's newness against it, even if I appear to be doing that now.  Did I say I'm loving my journey with the FA-10 very much so far, and even expecting the "love" to grow after the caps mod?  The partnership is very promising, and I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up getting far more head time than the V281 in the near, and even, distant future, especially since both the Susvaras and the LCD-4 are here to stay. In that sense, I am giving the FA-10 the fairest shot I can for matching and even outshining the V281 as we move forward, in spite of what I said in the previous post... And I hope the OP understands this aspect of my response and comparison as well.


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Okay _touché_ regarding #2 - There is some kind of bias there which comes from having used the V281 for more than 4 years without pairing it with any hp--and I mean *any*--which sucks, or has sucked, on it...  I could say the same thing for the stock FA-10 so far, but I have only had it for less than two months now, and only tried it with the Susvara and the LCD-4, so you could say the only real disadvantage the FA-10 faces in that comparison is that the FA-10's trial period has just started, and is still under way, whereas the V281 passes for "true and time-tested," like some vintage wine, that is so "vintage" that it is not even aware that its makers do not make it anymore.  So one could add "durability" to the V281's creds, which is another attribute which is making the FA-10's relative newness look like a disadvantage.  That "disadvantage" is only apparent, in that respect.
> 
> The FA-10 has a genuine shot at overcoming the "bias" I have mentioned on both fronts (versatile matchability and durability) by simply proving its own creds over time, but of course it will need some time, and further testing with multiple cans to get there.  In that sense, I am keeping a very open mind on that front, and not necessarily holding the FA-10's newness against it, even if I appear to be doing that now.  Did I say I'm loving my journey with the FA-10 very much so far, and even expecting the "love" to grow after the caps mod?  The partnership is very promising, and I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up getting far more head time than the V281 in the near, and even, distant future, especially since both the Susvaras and the LCD-4 are here to stay. In that sense, I am giving the FA-10 the fairest shot I can for matching and even outshining the V281 as we move forward, in spite of what I said in the previous post... And I hope the OP understands this aspect of my response and comparison as well.


Well said, the fact that the FA-10 is in the conversation says a lot. It’s like being the new kid at a new school. Where your trying to integrate yourself amongst all the well established people already there. Sounds like the FA-10 is making some friends rather quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised if the FA-10 makes its way to being part of the “in-crowd” once you hear it with the mods.


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## gancanjam

tholt said:


> As well. If he has the FA10?



I remember he had a FA-10 also along with FA-12 , he can probably provide comparison through the memories if he currently does not own FA-10


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## manishex (Dec 2, 2020)

I have an FA-10 on the way, but I keep getting the suspicion that the fa-12 will be more towards my liking. Would love if someone local would be willing to compare or temporarily swap.

The internet is lacking solid comparisons of the two.

I've always unequivocally preferred lower gain even for hard to drive headphones, as long as there's enough volume and like the richer/warmer sound sig. My issue with high gain is that the blackness disappears, imaging becomes less defined, sound becomes more distant, treble is hotter, bass hits harder but is ultimately fatiguing. 

When I queried about unity gain, they said the low gain 14db is it, so I'll wait and see...

Also getting interested in the Whammy DIY amp which is getting good reviews.


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## gancanjam (Dec 2, 2020)

sahmen said:


> Okay _touché_ regarding #2 - There is some kind of bias there which comes from having used the V281 for more than 4 years without pairing it with any hp--and I mean *any*--which sucks, or has sucked, on it...  I could say the same thing for the stock FA-10 so far, but I have only had it for less than two months now, and only tried it with the Susvara and the LCD-4, so you could say the only real disadvantage the FA-10 faces in that comparison is that the FA-10's trial period has just started, and is still under way, whereas the V281 passes for "true and time-tested," like some vintage wine, that is so "vintage" that it is not even aware that its makers do not make it anymore.  So one could add "durability" to the V281's creds, which is another attribute which is making the FA-10's relative newness look like a disadvantage.  That "disadvantage" is only apparent, in that respect.
> 
> The FA-10 has a genuine shot at overcoming the "bias" I have mentioned on both fronts (versatile matchability and durability) by simply proving its own creds over time, but of course it will need some time, and further testing with multiple cans to get there.  In that sense, I am keeping a very open mind on that front, and not necessarily holding the FA-10's newness against it, even if I appear to be doing that now.  Did I say I'm loving my journey with the FA-10 very much so far, and even expecting the "love" to grow after the caps mod?  The partnership is very promising, and I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up getting far more head time than the V281 in the near, and even, distant future, especially since both the Susvaras and the LCD-4 are here to stay. In that sense, I am giving the FA-10 the fairest shot I can for matching and even outshining the V281 as we move forward, in spite of what I said in the previous post... And I hope the OP understands this aspect of my response and comparison as well.



You have articulated your mind voice well  even for me, with all the hype and power the FA-10 did not knocked my socks off during my initial listening sessions but it grew on me where i understood it's purpose, strength, weakness and synergy with various DACs/HPs. I am enjoying it more with my HE1000 V1 currently. I considered to sell it multiple times but now i am convinced that it will find a permanent place at my desk


----------



## teknorob23

tholt said:


> As well. If he has the FA10?



Sadly i don’t have the fa10 anymore, so comparing specifics might be difficult but having spent a 5 weeks with it and the fa12 I should be able to comment more generally and from a technical, if not tonal stand point there are a lot of similarities between the 10 and 12. 

@sahmen i am interested to hear how the 10 & 12 compare the v281, particular in the midrange from a detail point of view, do you have any comparative impressions you can share on this? For example while I still found overall that I preferred both fcn and fa12, the questyle cma800r was more resolving in the mids.

My pre and maybe miss-conception is that the violectric will be more neutral and uncoloured than both the flux’s, a more nuanced version of the a90, which you too I believe. 

Personally I’m not to concerned about the power of the amp, as I’m back listening pretty much 100% via the stellias. That said  while they are easy to drive they scale wonderfully with better amplification, in fact better anything in the chain in front of them, so much so I’ve yet to find their limits. They sound great with the fa10 and 12, but they do also sound lovely with good clean power and I’m keen to find out whether I’m hearing the full potential and the true uncoloured characteristics of the Venus2 dac. I suspect I’m not and that the v281 might not be on a par either. 

Sorry not quite sure what my point is here, it’s been a long day, but yes I’ll report back as soon as I have something useful to share


----------



## sahmen

Slim1970 said:


> Well said, the fact that the FA-10 is in the conversation says a lot. It’s like being the new kid at a new school. Where your trying to integrate yourself amongst all the well established people already there. Sounds like the FA-10 is making some friends rather quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised if the FA-10 makes its way to being part of the “in-crowd” once you hear it with the mods.


Agreed on all counts.  Btw, regarding the question you asked about item #2, or what one might call the more apparent "versatile matchability" of the V281 with multiple headphones, and even iems, or with a wider range of varying efficiencies and impedances, one related feature I forgot to mention was its manually adjustable "pre-gain" settings, which lends themselves well to accommodating those differences and variables where needed. I typically do not use that function, as the unity gain setting is usually enough for all my needs, which is why I forgot to mention it in my answer. I have updated that answer now, but I won't change anything I have said about the FA-10, at least not until I have received my modded unit back


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## teknorob23 (Dec 2, 2020)

@manishex i’m in Surrey near weybridge and I’d be happy to do a swap for a week or so, lend you my 12.


----------



## sahmen

teknorob23 said:


> Sadly i don’t have the fa10 anymore, so comparing specifics might be difficult but having spent a 5 weeks with it and the fa12 I should be able to comment more generally and from a technical, if not tonal stand point there are a lot of similarities between the 10 and 12.
> 
> @sahmen i am interested to hear how the 10 & 12 compare the v281, particular in the midrange from a detail point of view, do you have any comparative impressions you can share on this? For example while I still found overall that I preferred both fcn and fa12, the questyle cma800r was more resolving in the mids.
> 
> ...



Well noted, although at the moment, the FA-10 is away to get its caps modded, so I shall have to get back to you on this question when the unit is back here.  At that point though, I shall be comparing that modded version with the V281, and that should be taken into account in weighing my impressions because the modding tends to elevate the
FA-10's detail retrieving powers, among other alterations, according to @Slim1970 .  I wish I could recall enough of the sound of the unmodded FA-10 to do a fair comparison with the V281 now, but i do not think that comparison would be reliable of fair, giving all the limitations of audio memory.  With that said, I can still do a comparison of the stock V281 and A90 against each other, and also against the FA-10 when it comes back, and I am hoping that would still be useful to you


----------



## tholt

sahmen said:


> Well noted, although at the moment, the FA-10 is away to get its caps modded, so I shall have to get back to you on this question when the unit is back here.  At that point though, I shall be comparing that modded version with the V281, and that should be taken into account in weighing my impressions because the modding tends to elevate the
> FA-10's detail retrieving powers, among other alterations, according to @Slim1970 .  I wish I could recall enough of the sound of the unmodded FA-10 to do a fair comparison with the V281 now, but i do not think that comparison would be reliable of fair, giving all the limitations of audio memory.  With that said, I can still do a comparison of the stock V281 and A90 against each other, and also against the FA-10 when it comes back, and I am hoping that would still be useful to you


Are you doing the same mod as @Slim1970 ?


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Agreed on all counts.  Btw, regarding the question you asked about item #2, or what one might call the more apparent "versatile matchability" of the V281 with multiple headphones, and even iems, or with a wider range of varying efficiencies and impedances, one related feature I forgot to mention was its manually adjustable "pre-gain" settings, which lends themselves well to accommodating those differences and variables where needed. I typically do not use that function, as the unity gain setting is usually enough for all my needs, which is why I forgot to mention it in my answer. I have updated that answer now, but I won't change anything I have said about the FA-10, at least not until I have received my modded unit back


Nice, I really considered the V281 FE before getting the FA-10. It is the more flexible amp by a long shot. As far as pure amplification goes the FA-10 is a very strong suitor. I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the mod. I’m really loving the open, airy treble response that’s been gained/added to sound. The FA-10 sounds so, so detailed and imaging is outstanding.

Before the mod, I slightly preferred the RME Pro with the FA-10. After the mods, the FA-10‘s transparency levels have been greatly improved. All the strengths and good things you hear about the TT2/HMS combo are clearly on display. So much so, that I’m really thinking about selling the RME pro. The TT2 is just leagues above it sound quality wise regardless of the feature set on the RME. With that said, I’m happy to report that the modded FA-10 let’s you hear those differences now. This is how good it has become.


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## sahmen

tholt said:


> Are you doing the same mod as @Slim1970 ?


Yes, that is correct: The very same mod, as far as I know.


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## Slim1970

I've been doing some comparisons with my new Soloist and FA-10. The Soloist is naturally detailed, even more so than my modded FA-10. It’s the Soloist only advantage over the FA-10. I really like the Soloists clean, fast, dynamic, transparent presentation. It also has a nice, impactful sub bass. What’s missing from the Soloist sound is midrange presence and some musicality.

On headphones like my Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT's, which are borderline neutral, the Soloist makes them sound somewhat thin and bright. Even my new HE6se V2's sound bright on it. Surprisingly, the Soloist sounds fantastic with my Susvara's and TC's. That's something I wasn't expecting at all.

I might try the V6 Classics to infuse some musicality back into the Soloist. As of right now, the Soloist definitely falls into the neutral camp of headphone amps. It's a trend I'm not liking. In comparison, the FA-10 is fuller sounding, with a meatier midrange, and has a more weighted sound. I just love how it fills out my headphones with class A sound. The mod definitely improves the FA-10’s technicalities. Giving its sound a performance boost  in soundstage, spatial cues, details and resolution. But it still falls short in detail retrieval compared to the Soloist.

The FA-10 is still my favorite amp to date. If this trend towards “neutrality” continues then it will also be a mainstay in my collection for some time to come.


----------



## NickT23

Slim1970 said:


> I've been doing some comparisons with my new Soloist and FA-10. The Soloist is naturally detailed, even more so than my modded FA-10. It’s the Soloist only advantage over the FA-10. I really like the Soloists clean, fast, dynamic, transparent presentation. It also has a nice, impactful sub bass. What’s missing from the Soloist sound is midrange presence and some musicality.
> 
> On headphones like my Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT's, which are borderline neutral, the Soloist makes them sound somewhat thin and bright. Even my new HE6se V2's sound bright on it. Surprisingly, the Soloist sounds fantastic with my Susvara's and TC's. That's something I wasn't expecting at all.
> 
> ...


Hello, is the Soloists nuetral Class  A amp  ? Is this the one you are referring, https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/soloist-3x-performance/  ?  
Sorry, am not very familiar  with it, willing to learn about it.


----------



## manishex

NickT23 said:


> Hello, is the Soloists nuetral Class  A amp  ? Is this the one you are referring, https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/soloist-3x-performance/  ?
> Sorry, am not very familiar  with it, willing to learn about it.


Yep that's the one. Burson house sound has always been rich and musical but the newest iteration tries to be more neutral. They've changed their design philosophy from large transformers and caps to small caps + DC (24V) which maybe have caused this shift.


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## NickT23

manishex said:


> Yep that's the one. Burson house sound has always been rich and musical but the newest iteration tries to be more neutral. They've changed their design philosophy from large transformers and caps to small caps + DC (24V) which maybe have caused this shift.


Interesting  but is it Class A topology ?


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## manishex (Dec 8, 2020)

NickT23 said:


> Interesting  but is it Class A topology ?


Yep it's Class A, fully discrete with the ability to swap op amps. They give you 4x Burson vivid v6 discrete op amps which is about 200 dollars worth. You can also get the burson conductor 3(x) reference which is an amp/dac but at a higher price point.
Note that slim also has the sparkos op amps ss3602 which are technically superior. 

Just found an interesting read on class A amps: https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/leaving-class-a/


----------



## NickT23

manishex said:


> Yep it's Class A, fully discrete with the ability to swap op amps. They give you 4x Burson vivid v6 discrete op amps which is about 200 dollars worth. You can also get the burson conductor 3(x) reference which is an amp/dac but at a higher price point.
> 
> Just found an interesting read on class A amps: https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/leaving-class-a/


Thanks but too technical for me to understand. Am only specialize in audio and A/B


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## SQ13 (Dec 8, 2020)

Just had quick listen after 15hr burn in. Soloist is neutral, clean, fast, dynamic and transparent. Will give it some more time before I buy some Sparkos or add a tube buffer to tune to my preference. For less than USD1k (after BF discount), it’s a decent amp given the build quality and sound.

sorry, this is a Flux Lab thread, let’s focus on the FA discussion.


----------



## Slim1970

SQ13 said:


> Just had quick listen after 15hr burn in. Soloist is neutral, clean, fast, dynamic and transparent. Will give it some more time before I buy some Sparkos or add a tube buffer to tune to my preference. For less than USD1k (after BF discount), it’s a decent amp given the build quality and sound.


Yep, that’s how I hear it too. It‘s almost at the opposite end of the sound spectrum compared to the FA-10.


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## rmsanger (Dec 8, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> I've been doing some comparisons with my new Soloist and FA-10. The Soloist is naturally detailed, even more so than my modded FA-10. It’s the Soloist only advantage over the FA-10. I really like the Soloists clean, fast, dynamic, transparent presentation. It also has a nice, impactful sub bass. What’s missing from the Soloist sound is midrange presence and some musicality.
> 
> On headphones like my Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT's, which are borderline neutral, the Soloist makes them sound somewhat thin and bright. Even my new HE6se V2's sound bright on it. *Surprisingly, the Soloist sounds fantastic with my Susvara's and TC's. That's something I wasn't expecting at all.*
> 
> ...



I'm not surprised that the Soloist sounds more clean than the FA-10 given the Burson house sound profile and it being a "fully balanced" config.   Many people say the Soloist 3XP has a better amp section than the Conductor 3XR so that is quite impressive.

Regarding the synergy with the Susvara and TCs would you say its a better pairing than the FA-10?   Do the TCs lack musicality/impact with the Soloist compared with the FA-10?   The biggest issue I've had with my TCs is amp pairing and finding something with a good synergy; I've tried 6-7 amps and they have all fallen short (A90, Lyr, Phonitor, V281, Liquid Platinum, Holo Mammoth, SP200).


----------



## Slim1970

I can agree that the Soloist has a better amp section than the Conductor 3XR I had. It has a better low end as well. It’s nice and punchy. The lack of midrange is troublesome to me at the moment. I really hope the midrange opens up with more burn-in. Then I think it’ll be on par with amps costing a lot more.

As far as synergy goes with the Susvara and TC’s, the Soloist is not bad. I like it better than some of the amps I’ve heard them on. It doesn’t have the raw power or drive of the FA-10, but it‘s very good at detail extraction. I like how the Soloist enhances the Susvara’s and TC’s low end, resolution, maintains their wide and deep soundstage and pinpoint imaging. All of which sounds like very good things, but something is missing from the Soloist sound that makes the FA-10 a much more enjoyable listen. I haven’t quite figured it out yet, but more listening is needed.

The modded FA-10 hits a bit harder, and has gained a much better sense of soundstage depth and width that is missing in stock form. It doesn’t give up much to Soloist’s resolute sound but if I’m being honest it doesn’t quite reach Soloist technical ability either. The midrange presence of the FA-10 goes a long way to adding body to both headphones. Whereas the Soloist just gets out of the way. 

This could be a good thing in a sense. Having an amp that just amplifies a signal without adding a sound of it’s own is worth owning. But I find that these types of amps tend to work better with warmer sounding headphones. That kind of sound also gets boring over time. Listening to poorly recorded music on a neutral amp will have looking for a different sound signature in hurry . I’ve been down that path already. In fact, this is what lead me to Flux Labs. To me, the FA-10 is a better pairing with a wider variety of headphones because of its musicality and the mod improves it technically. It’s what I enjoy my Susvara’s and TC’s on the most.


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> As far as synergy goes with the Susvara and TC’s, the Soloist is not bad. I like it better than some of the amps I’ve heard them on. It doesn’t have the raw power or drive of the FA-10, but it‘s very good at detail extraction. I like how the Soloist enhances the Susvara’s and TC’s low end, resolution, maintains their wide and deep soundstage and pinpoint imaging. All of which sounds like very good things, but something is missing from the Soloist sound that makes the FA-10 a much more enjoyable listen. I haven’t quite figured it out yet, but more listening is needed.
> 
> The modded FA-10 hits a bit harder, and has gained a much better sense of soundstage depth and width that is missing in stock form. It doesn’t give up much to Soloist’s resolute sound but if I’m being honest it doesn’t quite reach Soloist technical ability either. The midrange presence of the FA-10 goes a long way to adding body to both headphones. Whereas the Soloist just gets out of the way.



Yeah the lack of mids is a bit puzzling at first glance but one probably needs 100-200 hours of burn in to get a full picture plus it likely needs to be warmed up for quite some time.  I would also think the rolling of op-amps will be a significant change to the signature to possibly make it a bit more linear than the V curve you describe.

I'll be stalking the classified section for one in the new year!  Good luck and happy listening...


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## gancanjam (Dec 8, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> I'm not surprised that the Soloist sounds more clean than the FA-10 given the Burson house sound profile and it being a "fully balanced" config.   Many people say the Soloist 3XP has a better amp section than the Conductor 3XR so that is quite impressive.
> 
> Regarding the synergy with the Susvara and TCs would you say its a better pairing than the FA-10?   Do the TCs lack musicality/impact with the Soloist compared with the FA-10?   The biggest issue I've had with my TCs is amp pairing and finding something with a good synergy; I've tried 6-7 amps and they have all fallen short (A90, Lyr, Phonitor, V281, Liquid Platinum, Holo Mammoth, SP200).



TC is one of my favorite HPs, two of my AIOs work well with TC which are Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD and FCN-10, have heard it with non in-built DACs as well and they sound good.  TC covers all Frequencies well but still has a tad more presence in the extremes i.e. Lows and Highs so in some songs it may over power the Mids so if you are a mid lover, you might have to choose an amp which can shine in Mids such as FCN-10/FA-10, Moon 430 is more Neutral/Transparent is fantastic as well with more livelier presentation with TC.  TC Sub bass is focused bit more with Neo 430 while Mid bass is focused bit more with FA-10, but both covers every Bass layer well, Neo 430 is more detailed with bit more dynamics and with more treble extension but i love the way FA-10 sounds with TC as well. Give both an audition if possible with TC.

My friend @tholt has brought a new tube amp for his Abyss 1266 few months back,  @tholt , how is it coming along and can you please provide some feedback on your new amp's synergy with us ?


----------



## tholt (Dec 8, 2020)

@gancanjam do you have a pair of TCs now? It's been too long, we need to have another get together. Would love to hear your 430 HAD. As fate (and this hobby) would have it, I recently sold my Mogwai SE amp. It drove the Abyss just fine and was a lot of fun, but I think I was ready to try something else. I'm not sure if the pairing was 100% synergistic, but it was pretty great nonetheless. I say that because I wonder if the Mogwai works best with 'normal' cans with slightly higher sensitivity ratings than Abyss. Just a feeling, I never had a chance to use any other headphone with it so can't say for sure.

In the interim, I'm using the $300 Drop THX 789. It's pretty amazing what this little budget amp can do. Very clean and resolving. Not the last word for musicality, refinement and soundstage dimensionality, but for $300, not bad.

I wish I had thought of bringing the Mogwai over to your place before I sold it.


----------



## gancanjam

tholt said:


> @gancanjam do you have a pair of TCs now? It's been too long, we need to have another get together. Would love to hear your 430 HAD. As fate (and this hobby) would have it, I recently sold my Mogwai SE amp. It drove the Abyss just fine and was a lot of fun, but I think I was ready to try something else. I'm not sure if the pairing was 100% synergistic, but it was pretty great nonetheless. I say that because I wonder if the Mogwai works best with 'normal' cans with slightly higher sensitivity ratings than Abyss. Just a feeling, I never had a chance to use any other headphone with it so can't say for sure.
> 
> In the interim, I'm using the $300 Drop THX 789. It's pretty amazing what this little budget amp can do. Very clean and resolving. Not the last word for musicality, refinement and soundstage dimensionality, but for $300, not bad.
> 
> I wish I had thought of bringing the Mogwai over to your place before I sold it.



I don't own TC @tholt , have only borrowed it. Time for another get together,  feel free to take  my Neo 430 HAD with Abyss 1266 and listen, it is a macho man Amp to drive 1266 with aplomb   1266 is similar to TC anyways so your impressions can give us some cues.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> Yeah the lack of mids is a bit puzzling at first glance but one probably needs 100-200 hours of burn in to get a full picture plus it likely needs to be warmed up for quite some time.  I would also think the rolling of op-amps will be a significant change to the signature to possibly make it a bit more linear than the V curve you describe.
> 
> I'll be stalking the classified section for one in the new year!  Good luck and happy listening...


I’m hoping the mids get better with this amp. I do have a set of Sparkos Labs SS3602’s I could pop in, but they would need burn in as well. They tend to be bright out of the box.


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> TC is one of my favorite HPs, two of my AIOs work well with TC which are Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD and FCN-10, have heard it with non in-built DACs as well and they sound good.  TC covers all Frequencies well but still has a tad more presence in the extremes i.e. Lows and Highs so in some songs it may over power the Mids so if you are a mid lover, you might have to choose an amp which can shine in Mids such as FCN-10/FA-10, Moon 430 is more Neutral/Transparent is fantastic as well with more livelier presentation with TC.  TC Sub bass is focused bit more with Neo 430 while Mid bass is focused bit more with FA-10, but both covers every Bass layer well, Neo 430 is more detailed with bit more dynamics and with more treble extension but i love the way FA-10 sounds with TC as well. Give both an audition if possible with TC.
> 
> My friend @tholt has brought a new tube amp for his Abyss 1266 few months back,  @tholt , how is it coming along and can you please provide some feedback on your new amp's synergy with us ?


 The midrange is my favorite part of the FA-10, but it also does other frequencies well. If there is one area the TC’s could be better at it’s the midrange. The Susvara’s dominate them in this area. The FA-10 fills in the midrange very nicely.


----------



## teknorob23 (Dec 11, 2020)

The Burson is sounds interesting and just a quick update after a week with V281 consider me very impressed, super transparent and resolving, almost brutally so at times especially with some of my older but much loved 90s techno.  Fairly neutral, perhaps a bit of warmth and extra bass body. Quite a step up from the A90, the 281 pics up and conveys nuances, micro and macro details much better plus for a neutral amp still has a musicality i cant hear in the a90. Obviously its a pretty big compliment that the a90 at fraction of the cost, is in the same conversation. Downsides compared to the FA12, are the mids are perhaps a few mm back and then on a tonality front the lushness of the 12 win's out make it still the listening for pleasure choice, but resolution-wise the v281 inches ahead. I wasnt expecting to like the V281, but out of the so-called neutral/ clean amps i've tried its by far my favourite. It pairs beautifully with both Venus2 and Stellias and i think its looking like it might be a keeper, especially useful for evaluating new wires and filters, but it will be heading to my office/workshop.

Having felt more than a little bereft since the demo fcn10 moved on and knowing the Volot may still be a little way off, i've bitten the bullet and ordered an FA10. While i'm enjoying the Stellias greatly with 12, the v281 has reminded me how they thrive when fed by cleaner more neutral amp, not so far that i can live without FLA class A loveliness in as my amp of choice in the living room, but enough to want to dial things back a bit, while maintaining the amazing mids with a little less warmth, but we'll see 

Looking forward to comparing all 3, but in the meantime, @sahmen i can completely understand why the V281 has been keeper.


----------



## dermott

Hifiman Arya......FA-10 or FA-12?


----------



## PhazeCrive

I too am interested in hearing what this monster amp can do to the rather "tame and subtle" Arya.


----------



## Slim1970

dermott said:


> Hifiman Arya......FA-10 or FA-12?


I would say either should work well with the Arya's. I can drive my HD800S's on low gain with relative ease out of my FA-10. I guess it will come down to which tone you prefer. The slightly warm, neutral tone of the FA-10 or the rich, warmer tone of the FA-12.


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> The Burson is sounds interesting and just a quick update after a week with V281 consider me very impressed, super transparent and resolving, almost brutally so at times especially with some of my older but much loved 90s techno.  Fairly neutral, perhaps a bit of warmth and extra bass body. Quite a step up from the A90, the 281 pics up and conveys nuances, micro and macro details much better plus for a neutral amp still has a musicality i cant hear in the a90. Obviously its a pretty big compliment that the a90 at fraction of the cost, is in the same conversation. Downsides compared to the FA12, are the mids are perhaps a few mm back and then on a tonality front the lushness of the 12 win's out make it still the listening for pleasure choice, but resolution-wise the v281 inches ahead. I wasnt expecting to like the V281, but out of the so-called neutral/ clean amps i've tried its by far my favourite. It pairs beautifully with both Venus2 and Stellias and i think its looking like it might be a keeper, especially useful for evaluating new wires and filters, but it will be heading to my office/workshop.
> 
> Having felt more than a little bereft since the demo fcn10 moved on and knowing the Volot may still be a little way off, i've bitten the bullet and ordered an FA10. While i'm enjoying the Stellias greatly with 12, the v281 has reminded me how they thrive when fed by cleaner more neutral amp, not so far that i can live without FLA class A loveliness in as my amp of choice in the living room, but enough to want to dial things back a bit, while maintaining the amazing mids with a little less warmth, but we'll see
> 
> Looking forward to comparing all 3, but in the meantime, @sahmen i can completely understand why the V281 has been keeper.


@teknorob23 does your V281 has the DAC or relay volume pot?


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> @teknorob23 does your V281 has the DAC or relay volume pot?



My violectric is just the bog standard model with out a DAC, so I’m running it from the Venus2. I have tried it with hugo2 but it definitely suits the slightly warm more organic denafrips. Mind you I’m so smitten with the Venus2, the H2 sounds sharp and unresolving by comparison, which is mad because it is an awesome dac


----------



## cfranchi

Slim1970 said:


> I can drive my HD800S's on low gain with relative ease out of my FA-10.



Did you compare with medium gain ? I found that medium gain is cleaner and more effortless compared to low gain.


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Did you compare with medium gain ? I found that medium gain is cleaner and more effortless compared to low gain.


Of course I did . It’s my preferred gain setting for them. I was just making a point that the Arya’s do not need more power than what the FA-12 offers. The FA-10 is simply overkill if don’t have an Susvara or similar type headphone.


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> My violectric is just the bog standard model with out a DAC, so I’m running it from the Venus2. I have tried it with hugo2 but it definitely suits the slightly warm more organic denafrips. Mind you I’m so smitten with the Venus2, the H2 sounds sharp and unresolving by comparison, which is mad because it is an awesome dac


Okay, I’m in the process of completing a deal for one myself after selling my Soloist 3XP . It should be an awesome mix of amps with my modded FA-10 already in my collection. I guess @sahmen really has influenced use both!


----------



## manishex (Dec 14, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> Okay, I’m in the process of completing a deal for one myself after selling my Soloist 3XP . It should be an awesome mix of amps with my modded FA-10 already in my collection. I guess @sahmen really has influenced use both!



The r2r sound is a whole different take, it removes the sheen and gives you an unadulterated life like tone and doesn't highlight /force particular details but comes to you in cohesive manner.

That being said, I may have both the fa-12 and fa-10 on hand soon to do some comparisons with both types of dacs.


----------



## Slim1970

manishex said:


> The r2r sound is a whole different take, it removes the sheen and gives you an unadulterated life like tone and doesn't highlight /force particular details but comes to you in cohesive manner.
> 
> That being said, I may have both the fa-12 and fa-10 on hand soon to do some comparisons with both types of dacs.


Looking forward to hearing your impressions of both amps. I do have future plans of adding an R2R DAC into the mix now that I THINK I’m done with the amp side of things. I’m inching ever so closely to just being able to enjoy listening to music after so much demoing and tryouts of many components.


----------



## cangle

Any idea how long the backorder wait is for the fa-12?


----------



## manishex

About 2 weeks, bare in mind Christmas is coming up so deliveries will be delayed


----------



## gancanjam

dermott said:


> Hifiman Arya......FA-10 or FA-12?



My HE1000 V1 pairs well with FA-10. I heard Arya has similar presentation  & tonality as HE1000 V1 so that may work


----------



## teknorob23

Slim1970 said:


> Okay, I’m in the process of completing a deal for one myself after selling my Soloist 3XP . It should be an awesome mix of amps with my modded FA-10 already in my collection. I guess @sahmen really has influenced use both!



It’s a scarily fine line between shared interests and co-dependancy... I think I’m grateful @sahmen


----------



## sahmen (Dec 15, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> It’s a scarily fine line between shared interests and co-dependancy... I think I’m grateful @sahmen



Ahh Gentlemen. What an honor! Incidentally I am feeling quite humbled and scared at the same time myself


----------



## dermott

That being said, I may have both the fa-12 and fa-10 on hand soon to do some comparisons with both types of dacs.
[/QUOTE]
What DACs and cans will you be using for your comparisons?


----------



## manishex (Dec 16, 2020)

dermott said:


> That being said, I may have both the fa-12 and fa-10 on hand soon to do some comparisons with both types of dacs.


What DACs and cans will you be using for your comparisons?
[/QUOTE]
At the moment I have the burson conductor 3 reference, musician pegasus, gustard a22, singxer sda-6 adv, burson ha-160d. I just sold the teac ud501 but the chip on that is similar to the ha-160d (burr brown).

I'll be using the lcd-4, unfortunately I've recently loaned my lcd-3 and sold the hd650. I've always needed to turn the the volume knob less for them.

@teknorob23 has already lent me his fa-12, spent a few hours listening to it yesterday. Fa-10 is still on its way. I can play the LCD-4 loud low gain, unbalanced at 3pm on the knob.

So far I can say that the fa-12 is very liquid, rich and seductive, to me it has the original burson house sound and what I thought the conductor 3 series would sound like. It does decays and soundstage depth astonishingly well. I sometimes get tube amp vibes but a very clean sound, one that doesn't roll off the treble.


----------



## dermott

Sounds very promising. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the 12 vs 10


----------



## franci2105

What's the difference betweenn the Flux FA-10 and the FA-10 PRO?


----------



## manishex

franci2105 said:


> What's the difference betweenn the Flux FA-10 and the FA-10 PRO?


FA-10 has a tuned treble whereas the fa-10 pro treble is "as is" and more present. The Fa-10 is J-Fet and the Pro is bipolar. The pro will give you a more accurate sound as opposed to it being  romanticised. Not many people here have the FA-10 pro. Also the FA-10 just got headfonia amp of the year award (https://www.headfonia.com/hfn-2020-awards-part-2/)


----------



## franci2105

manishex said:


> FA-10 has a tuned treble whereas the fa-10 pro treble is "as is" and more present. The Fa-10 is J-Fet and the Pro is bipolar. The pro will give you a more accurate sound as opposed to it being  romanticised. Not many people here have the FA-10 pro. Also the FA-10 just got headfonia amp of the year award (https://www.headfonia.com/hfn-2020-awards-part-2/)


So the PRO it's just better or it depends on what you are looking for?


----------



## teknorob23

franci2105 said:


> So the PRO it's just better or it depends on what you are looking for?



no its flatter, more neutral, more of pro-studio sound


----------



## manishex

franci2105 said:


> So the PRO it's just better or it depends on what you are looking for?


From what it seems, the Pro sounds more linear and is more akin to other amplifiers. The reason why the Fa-10 is so loved is that it gives you a more full-body, sweeter organic sound.


----------



## franci2105

manishex said:


> From what it seems, the Pro sounds more linear and is more akin to other amplifiers. The reason why the Fa-10 is so loved is that it gives you a more full-body, sweeter organic sound.





teknorob23 said:


> no its flatter, more neutral, more of pro-studio sound


Ok


----------



## franci2105 (Dec 17, 2020)

manishex said:


> From what it seems, the Pro sounds more linear and is more akin to other amplifiers. The reason why the Fa-10 is so loved is that it gives you a more full-body, sweeter organic sound.





manishex said:


> From what it seems, the Pro sounds more linear and is more akin to other amplifiers. The reason why the Fa-10 is so loved is that it gives you a more full-body, sweeter organic sound.


Ok


----------



## sahmen (Dec 17, 2020)

*FA-10  with Susvara* : It is funny how a headphone amp's reputation can become linked with a particular headphone whether by a calculated effort on someone's part or by chance... Such is the fate of the FA-10 with the Susvara... I do not know whether  it happened by way of the Headfonia review, or whether Flux Lsbs themselves have something to do with it...

Mind you, I am not necessarily complaining... The association has paved the way to a very affordable amp-solution for the Susvara, a particularly picky and "hard-to please" headphone, which does not often co-exist too comfortably with the word "affordable" in many sentences or contexts, but I digress.

Why am I bringing all this up now?  First of all I just got my FA-10 caps modded, thanks to the inspiration and DIY craftsmanship of two contributors to this forum, @Slim1970 , and @ksorota  Yay!!    

Now auditioning the modded FA-10 has been quite the revelation, since I got it back earlier this week, even though I have only had time to do some relatively careful listening only since yesterday... Now, while I have already found the mod to be very worthwhile so far,  I am not going to spend too much time describing the sonic transformation, because I am also realizing that "burn-in" time is quite important and transformative at this early stage for this mod, even from one day to the next, so i'll save the longer description of its sonic effects for later, as what I say today might be premature... 

Still the modded FA-10 is making me rediscover the Susvara all over again, and that is already thrilling, even if that was somewhat to be expected given all the pre-hype...

The unexpected thrill, however, actually involves the FA-10/ LCD-4 pairing, for which not much elaborate "pre-hype" has occurred to my knowledge... It is to the point where yesterday I spent a considerable amount of time wondering which pairing to declare "the winner", FA-10/Susvara or FA-10/LCD-4? Two compelling presentations of the same material, each mesmerizing in its own right, for its own reasons... Not that it really matters which one is the winner, since the verdict would be a "win-win" for me either way...  Besides, both the "burn-in" and rediscovery processes are still on-going, which will render any final judgement premature, if rendered today. Still, it has been one hell of an entertaining, "fun," and "bonkers" ride going back and forth between the two pairings, with the FA-10 strutting its stuff each time, front and center, regardless of what track I throw at it,

It is simply quite comforting to have the privilege of witnessing (or hearing) this compelling head to head on this cold, and snowed-in New England Thursday afternoon... in this "covid-confinement" season...  Bottoms Up!

_*I want my FA-10*_.
🎹🎧🎼🥁🎷


----------



## Sound Eq

sahmen said:


> *FA-10  with Susvara* : It is funny how a headphone amp's reputation can become linked with a particular headphone whether by a calculated effort on someone's part or by chance... Such is the fate of the FA-10 with the Susvara... I do not know whether  it happened by way of the Headfonia review, or whether Flux Lsbs themselves have something to do with it...
> 
> Mind you, I am not necessarily complaining... The association has paved the way to a very affordable amp-solution for the Susvara, a particularly picky and "hard-to please" headphone, which does not often co-exist too comfortably with the word "affordable" in many sentences or contexts, but I digress.
> 
> ...


if the mod is easy to do, can Flux do that mod upon request to people who might be interested in it


----------



## sahmen

Sound Eq said:


> if the mod is easy to do, can Flux do that mod upon request to people who might be interested in it



My guess is "no," but this is not because of how easy or hard the mod is. Personally, I would be hesitant to discuss any particular mod with the OEM of the equipment in question,  especially after the unit has already already released.  I did speak to the Flux rep on Facebook about the possibility of their including a pre amp stage in the Volot, but that's because the Volot is not out in any finalized form yet. I wouldn't have the nerve to ask them if the Volot had already been released.

With that said, adding a pre-amp stage is not exactly a typical "mod" job, but I hope you understand what I am getting at.


----------



## Sound Eq (Dec 19, 2020)

sahmen said:


> My guess is "no," but this is not because of how easy or hard the mod is. Personally, I would be hesitant to discuss any particular mod with the OEM of the equipment in question,  especially after the unit has already already released.  I did speak to the Flux rep on Facebook about the possibility of their including a pre amp stage in the Volot, but that's because the Volot is not out in any finalized form yet. I wouldn't have the nerve to ask them if the Volot had already been released.
> 
> With that said, adding a pre-amp stage is not exactly a typical "mod" job, but I hope you understand what I am getting at.


well kennerton took a mod from a head fier for their gm50 and  added his initials to it 

if a mod is easy to do i see no reason why not, if the outcome is positive, unless they want to bank on it later on as an mk2


----------



## ksorota

Sound Eq said:


> well kennerton took a mod from a head fier for their gm50 and  added his initials to it
> 
> if a mod is easy to do i see no reason why not, if the outcome is positive, unless they want to bank on it later on as an mk2


It would be very easy for Flux to do the mod, or in better terms to just install different capacitors from the start. 

More a matter of the flexibility or willingness of them to do it. 

It cannot hurt to ask, I talked to them about the first mod I did and they were willing to discuss the project without any qualms.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 20, 2020)

You guys are probably right about the Flux-Lab folks being open to discussing the possibility of modding their already existing products...  I wonder though what that would imply for the protocols of naming:  Will the FA-10 rebuilt (or modded) with an entirely new, and different set of capacitors still be an FA-10 or will it be more appropriate to give it a different name?  Sonically speaking, I think the mod produces enough of a delta between the original and modded versions for the latter to qualify as a different product.

Massdrop practices the neat trick of adding an "X" or "XX" to the names of the customized modded products they commission from the original manufacturers in order to signal such differences and deltas (e.g. Massdrop Liquid Carbon X, or Grace Design M9XX etc. etc). So will a caps modded FA-10 still remain an FA-10 in name?  Maybe an FA-10 MK2 might do, but what do I know?

This is all above my pay grade anyway, and strikes me as something better left to those who know what they're talking about,..

************************

Well, since I am here, let me give a quick update on my auditioning of the modded FA-10.

Short version : *More!

More ample, layered and delineated "headstage"* = a wider, deeper, taller, and more spacious and layered soundstage. More separation and "air." Musical notes are distributed both inside and at various distances outside the perimeter of the "virtual" head, but there is a clearer sense of what is inside and what is outside it. Still the whole configuration also manages to sound very "organic" and "musical."  The notes are clearly separate, clean, and crisp, and hence easy to analyze, but without necessarily sounding "analytical," if "analytical" means (as it often does on head-fi) uninvolving and dry, which what I am hearing is clearly not...

*More "blackground"* = blacker background, yes the kind in which you can hear the most subtle notes of percussive instruments, including even "pins" dropping if there are any in the recording.  And also the other sound cues of the apparent performance venue, reverb in notes of the piano, etc etc. You also hear more decay on certain notes, open high hats, cymbals, and upright bass notes, but all in a good way without their straying into anything that sounds unnatural or excessive

More extension at both ends, and, of course, better imaging and texture in notes, which still sound full in the mids and low end, but cleaner...

I am sure am not saying everything, but if I remember something else, I shall update the post.

Now there is one notable area in which the "more" logic does not apply, which is that of "fatigue." However, the original non-modded FA-10 was already quite fatigue-free as I remember it, so it is probably better to say that "fatigue remains a non-issue" and be done with it...

Listening chain:

Optical module==>>Etherregen==>>Metrum Ambre (Roon bridge) ==>> Sonnet Morpheus ==>> FA-10==>>Susvara/LCD-4

A few sample tracks :


----------



## manishex

I've asked about modding caps, they said they may be able to do it for me but the build time will take longer and they don't believe it will make much difference. How it sounds now is fine lol.


----------



## NickT23

sahmen said:


> My guess is "no," but this is not because of how easy or hard the mod is. Personally, I would be hesitant to discuss any particular mod with the OEM of the equipment in question,  especially after the unit has already already released.  I did speak to the Flux rep on Facebook about the possibility of their including a pre amp stage in the Volot, but that's because the Volot is not out in any finalized form yet. I wouldn't have the nerve to ask them if the Volot had already been released.
> 
> With that said, adding a pre-amp stage is not exactly a typical "mod" job, but I hope you understand what I am getting at.


Hello, do you think the Volot  design will be somewhat part of the mod of the FA-10 but better ?


----------



## manishex

NickT23 said:


> Hello, do you think the Volot  design will be somewhat part of the mod of the FA-10 but better ?


It seems that the Volot will be a dual mono fa-10, perhaps with better components since it will be 3-4x more expensive.


----------



## NickT23

manishex said:


> It seems that the Volot will be a dual mono fa-10, perhaps with better components since it will be 3-4x more expensive.


Am very nervous to be honest. Wonder how much difference will it be improve from FA-10 as well as FA-10 modded.


----------



## Slim1970

manishex said:


> I've asked about modding caps, they said they may be able to do it for me but the build time will take longer and they don't believe it will make much difference. How it sounds now is fine lol.


I would say that there is a difference in sound. A factory mod would just use different capacitors with similar specs as the original and the resulting sound probably would be the same or very similar to the original. Then there's the "enthusiast" mod that @sahmen and I have, which @ksorota used the biggest capacitors that could fit on the PCB board resulting in a vastly noticeable change in sound as outline in @sahmen and my posts. The modded FA-10 is probably the best single ended amp I've heard. 

The Volot is going to be a dual mono design based on the unmodded FA-10. I can't say with 100% certainty that the modded FA-10 will compete with the Volot, but boy would I love to them side by side. As of right now, the modded FA-10 sits at the top in my current setup. I've never heard anything like to be honest. The modded FA-10 has finesse, authority, superb dynamics, clarity, spaciousness, and air. All of those attributes are improvement on the original's sound. What's fansinating is the modded FA-10 is still to maintain it musicality despite gaining undergoing such modest internal changes. 

I do have a couple of amps headed my way to compare. My Violectric V281 will be here this week. It's a balanced design that @teknorob23 and @sahmen already have. Both have commented briefly on the sound of the two. I'll also have a XI Audio Formula S coming my way next month. It's a dual mono design much like the Volot will that could very well top the the FA-10 and V281 sound wise, but that is to be determined. Either way, it'll be a fun comparison with what I hope will be three distinctive sound signatures. So they all could be keepers


----------



## sahmen

NickT23 said:


> Am very nervous to be honest. Wonder how much difference will it be improve from FA-10 as well as FA-10 modded.


As @manishex has mentioned, the Volot is going to be a dual mono version of the FA-10, most likely sporting an internally balanced topology. If it does come with a good pre amp stage, as the Flux Lab rep on Facebook promised it might, that would make it quite appealing for me, although like @Slim1970 ,  I would also like to know how it stacks up against the modded FA-10, and what the modding might do for it as well.


----------



## Lohb

Can anyone recommend a sub-$1500 R2R that pairs with FA-10 going out to planars ?


----------



## manishex

Lohb said:


> Can anyone recommend a sub-$1500 R2R that pairs with FA-10 going out to planars ?


I use the musician pegasus to good effect, many people seem happy with the Denafrips ares 2. What headphones do you have because fa-10 + r2r will give you a very relaxed treble response.

I set my dac to NOS and oversample to 768khz on hqplayer which gives me back all the OS detail but with a wider soundstage and smoother tonality.


----------



## Lohb

manishex said:


> I use the musician pegasus to good effect, many people seem happy with the Denafrips ares 2. What headphones do you have because fa-10 + r2r will give you a very relaxed treble response.
> 
> I set my dac to NOS and oversample to 768khz on hqplayer which gives me back all the OS detail but with a wider soundstage and smoother tonality.


Audeze LCD 2.1  |  DCA Aeon 2C  |  Meze Empyrean. 
Had been looking at Ares 2 actually.


----------



## manishex (Dec 25, 2020)

Lohb said:


> Audeze LCD 2.1  |  DCA Aeon 2C  |  Meze Empyrean.
> Had been looking at Ares 2 actually.


Ooo, those sets of headphones tell me that we have a similar taste in preferred signature, which means you'll like the fa-10. Although I'd be a bit hesitant as with the addition of an r2r dac, the treble may be a bit too laid back unless you: oversample, eq, use lots of silver cables (or cap upgrade). The way the treble is tuned means that it never gets hot or too forward even at high volumes.

I only just got my fa-10 so need it to break in and give it a fuse upgrade so what I said can change over the next few days.


----------



## Lohb

Apart from tone differences and FA-10 being the higher model to FA-12 (?), is there anything FA-12 does better than FA-10 for those that have A|B'd the two of them...

Aside from above, I think if I've got it right skimming through the thread - the tone spectrum is maybe FA-12 warmest, FA-10 natural and FA-10 Pro neutral.


----------



## gancanjam

manishex said:


> Ooo, those sets of headphones tell me that we have a similar taste in preferred signature, which means you'll like the fa-10. Although I'd be a bit hesitant as with the addition of an r2r dac, the treble may be a bit too laid back unless you: oversample, eq, use lots of silver cables (or cap upgrade). The way the treble is tuned means that it never gets hot or too forward even at high volumes.
> 
> I only just got my fa-10 so need it to break in and give it a fuse upgrade so what I said can change over the next few days.



You are right about Denafrips Ares 2 + FA-10 + say, LCD 2.1  = laid back treble.


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> You are right about Denafrips Ares 2 + FA-10 + say, LCD 2.1  = laid back treble.


I switched the DAC I have connected to my FA-10. I went from the Chord TT2 to the Chord Hugo 2 because it's a brighter sounding DAC. I much prefer the sound of the Hugo 2 with the FA-10 as it a more energetic DAC than the TT2. I moved my TT2 over to the V281. Its warmer, more natural sound works much better with more transparent, neutral sounding V281.


----------



## manishex (Jan 1, 2021)

Lohb said:


> Apart from tone differences and FA-10 being the higher model to FA-12 (?), is there anything FA-12 does better than FA-10 for those that have A|B'd the two of them...
> 
> Aside from above, I think if I've got it right skimming through the thread - the tone spectrum is maybe FA-12 warmest, FA-10 natural and FA-10 Pro neutral.


You've got a good summarisation of the three.

Although the FA-12 has a slightly warmer tone in the lower mids (saw a lot of nichicon gold caps inside) it also has a bit more treble presence making it sound overall a bit more fiery yet syrupy. The fa-10, on the other hand, has a more spacious sound (because of power?) vocals are still full-bodied and the treble is tuned to not be so forward, dynamics wise it's a monster and hits hard giving a more earthy sound.

Mid gain dynamics on the FA-12 are similar to low gain dynamics of the FA-10, but this is with the LCD-4.

Flux labs told me the FA-10 pro treble is similar to the FA-12 treble.


----------



## gancanjam

Slim1970 said:


> I switched the DAC I have connected to my FA-10. I went from the Chord TT2 to the Chord Hugo 2 because it's a brighter sounding DAC. I much prefer the sound of the Hugo 2 with the FA-10 as it a more energetic DAC than the TT2. I moved my TT2 over to the V281. Its warmer, more natural sound works much better with more transparent, neutral sounding V281.



I like Hugo 2 & FA-10 pairing as well, they complement each other


----------



## Honeypot

Anyone has tried both topping a90 vs Flux fa-12s?


----------



## manishex (Jan 1, 2021)

Honeypot said:


> Anyone has tried both topping a90 vs Flux fa-12s?


Fa-12s isn't balanced, I've used fa-12 single ended extensively and a90 balanced/single ended.

The a90 will be more neutral, nothing will stand out and you will have lots of resolution and clarity but with 0 personality, a bit like a looking through a window experience. A refreshing, transparent water like sound, the older thx amps are more icey.

The fa-12s on the other hand will be richer, smoother with a deeper stage. Treble will still be present and shimmer brilliantly. It still has lots of detail but with a liquid characteristic, vocals are vibrant, overall an engaging firery sound.

Tdlr, vibrancy vs pure neutral


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> I like Hugo 2 & FA-10 pairing as well, they complement each other


They make great music together! I prefer the Hugo 2 with the FA-10 over the TT2. They have better synergy with each other.


----------



## Sound Eq

Slim1970 said:


> They make great music together! I prefer the Hugo 2 with the FA-10 over the TT2. They have better synergy with each other.


why is the hugo2 better than tt2 with FA-10


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> why is the hugo2 better than tt2 with FA-10


As good as the FA-10 is, it wasn’t letting me realize the TT2’s full potential. The warmer tonality of the TT2 added a touch to much warmth to the FA-10’s overtones. The FA-10‘s tuning couldn’t compensate for this. Especially in treble and midrange regions where the FA-10 adds some color to the sound. Basically, the synergy wan’t there to my ears.

The Hugo 2‘s tone and brighter nature boosts the FA-10‘s top end and cleans up the midrange. It adds a bit more clarity and openness to FA-10 sound across the entire frequency spectrum.


----------



## Honeypot

manishex said:


> Fa-12s isn't balanced, I've used fa-12 single ended extensively and a90 balanced/single ended.
> 
> The a90 will be more neutral, nothing will stand out and you will have lots of resolution and clarity but with 0 personality, a bit like a looking through a window experience. A refreshing, transparent water like sound, the older thx amps are more icey.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the description.

Ive got a topping dx7-pro and a feliks echo. In using dt 1990s and audeze lcd-x. I find the dx7-pro a bit lacking, and I'm trying to decide.
I didn't really experience balanced, and although I've been said it's not gonna make much change, i want to experience the full channel separation. The warmth of the fa-12s also appeals to me. But I can't make a decision. :S


----------



## brianfromspace

First of all thanks everyone for participating in this thread. I’m in the market for a headphone amp and came across Flux on Youtube and all your reviews and comments are very helpfull to decide which one to go for.

Special thanks to @Slim1970, @sahmen and @teknorob23 for your detailed reports on your experiences. Read the 77 pages in one day, was a hell of ride 

I have one question to @teknorob23: Did u stick with the FA-10 that u ordered? I saw your 12 on Ebay. And why? You were so positive on the 12.

Like you I listen to Electronic/Techno most, but also some RnB, so mostly bass heavy. The guys over at Flux told me to go for the 12 in combination with the Hifiman Arya’s. I’m upgrading from a dap only (Fiio M15) to the dap balanced into a headphone amp. This because of lack of punch from the dap, so i don’t want to end up with not enough watts.

thanks!

B.


----------



## Slim1970

brianfromspace said:


> First of all thanks everyone for participating in this thread. I’m in the market for a headphone amp and came across Flux on Youtube and all your reviews and comments are very helpfull to decide which one to go for.
> 
> Special thanks to @Slim1970, @sahmen and @teknorob23 for your detailed reports on your experiences. Read the 77 pages in one day, was a hell of ride
> 
> ...


Can't recommend the FA-10 enough. Especially in its modded form. It continues to improve and impress as the new caps start to settle. The original tone is coming back with better dynamics, clarity, and soundstage. There's more space and air around the notes that wasn't there in stock form in the treble region. Its tone and sound attributes are a perfect match for my Susara's and HEKse's. More so than the my V281 which is an outstanding amp on its own. 

The FA-10's tube-like sound qualities just excel more with Hifiman and Sennheiser headphones. My HD600's, Ether 2's, and Quad Era-1's sound grand on the FA-10. It's a tough call but the power and musicality of the FA-10 has won me over and makes it a keeper of an amp.


----------



## brianfromspace

Slim1970 said:


> Can't recommend the FA-10 enough.



But did u listen to the FA-12?


----------



## Honeypot

I see much love for the FA-10. Not so much for the FA-12. Why is that?
I am about to purchase it :x


----------



## manishex

brianfromspace said:


> But did u listen to the FA-12?



I've had the fa-12 and fa-10 side by side. If you have hard to drive planars the fa-10 will power them gloriously meaning full dynamics and soundstage. The fa-10 treble is more laid back which would work well with brighter headphones like some hifiman, otherwise get a the fa-10 pro for dark headphones and/or avoid warm dacs.

Fa-12 is slightly richer than the fa-10 in the lower mids. Fa-12 is a fiery sound, fa-10 is an earthy sound.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Should I get the a90/d90 stack or the FCN-10? Or what's a good dac for the regular fa-10 and pro? Cant decide on the regular or pro version


----------



## manishex

PhazeCrive said:


> Should I get the a90/d90 stack or the FCN-10? Or what's a good dac for the regular fa-10 and pro? Cant decide on the regular or pro version


Depends what headphones you have. 
Hard to drive headphones, bright headphones, thin headphones I'd go with the fcn-10.

With the a90/d90 you're getting super high resolution but you lose out on some musicality for a clinical sound. Fa-10 pro will have neutral studio treble, fa-10 will have toned down a bit.


----------



## Slim1970

brianfromspace said:


> But did u listen to the FA-12?


I’ve haven’t heard the FA-12. So I can’t really compare the two.


----------



## brianfromspace

manishex said:


> I've had the fa-12 and fa-10 side by side. If you have hard to drive planars the fa-10 will power them gloriously meaning full dynamics and soundstage. The fa-10 treble is more laid back which would work well with brighter headphones like some hifiman, otherwise get a the fa-10 pro for dark headphones and/or avoid warm dacs.
> 
> Fa-12 is slightly richer than the fa-10 in the lower mids. Fa-12 is a fiery sound, fa-10 is an earthy sound.



Thx for your reply! I hope @teknorob23 can let me know why the swap from 12 to 10. Not looking for to do the same route


----------



## teknorob23

brianfromspace said:


> First of all thanks everyone for participating in this thread. I’m in the market for a headphone amp and came across Flux on Youtube and all your reviews and comments are very helpfull to decide which one to go for.
> 
> Special thanks to @Slim1970, @sahmen and @teknorob23 for your detailed reports on your experiences. Read the 77 pages in one day, was a hell of ride
> 
> ...



First off you're brave man wading through all 70-odd pages. It's a tough call on the Fa12 vs FA10 count especially if like me outright power is less of consideration. There is is a lack of Fa12 impressions on here which is mainly of course down to the fact that i think there are only couple of people on hear who have bought or heard it the 12. As with you Vitally at Flux steered me towards the 12, based on techno/ IDM, presented in analogue fashion and my HP's at the time Senn HD820, and this was even in the context that i was looking at partnering with the Hugo2, so not using the balanced topology, just based on tuning preference. I have to say it was spot on advice, yes the 12 is richer and slightly warmer, but with more body from the bass up and mids like i've not heard before, so lush, natural but still well separated. The top end is a big surprise in that i'd expected it to be slightly dark, but in actual fact its not rolled off in the slightest and is more extended than the Fa10.

As you probably picked up on about page 32  Flux kindly leant me the FCN10 before it went out to reviewers in the UK. I loved it straight away, because despite from having more similarities than differences, those differences made it just as beguiling as the 12. I recently lent to the @manishex, an expectant FA10 owner who summed up the differences really well, the 12 is fiery, full exciting, whereas the Fa10 natural and earthy, but no less exciting.

I was very sad to see the FCN10 go, which i should also mention has a very capable and well implemented R2R sounding DAC, which makes even more of bargain, but at the time the 12 with the HD820 just extra bit of magic, or fullness which complimented the senn's sometimes lean sound just a bit better than the 10.  But rather than one being preferable to the other i think it more came down to which one i had listened to last, as each time i'd finish a listening session, i'd say to myself, yep the 12 is definitely better than the 12, only to seamlessly contradict myself the following evening.

Anyway, as i'm sure it has been for most people, this year has not been what i'd predicted at the very least just as far as my work life has been concerned. Thanks first to Brexit and then hammered home by COVID, i've gone from being a part-time cable maker and full-time advertising/film maker to a full time cable maker who's forgotten where he left his camera. Why am i telling you this, well to answer the question why is my 12 for sale on Ebay? The answer being i am now spending less time listening for fun and in fact probably 99% of my time is assessing, comparing, tweaking, assessing, comparing, repeat, repeat the products which are now responsible for a bit more than fun and satisfaction. I am, while i await the Volot, using V281 as my reference HP set-up, fueled by Denafrips Venus2/ Bricasti M5 and out through my second pair of Stellias. I just need that reference level of resolution or $2,000+ amp which $700 dollar FA range can't match. Hopefully that statement alone tells you what you need to know about how good these amps are!

I have ordered an Fa10 and a £1 listing offer came up, so the 12 has found itself on Ebay, while i wait for the 10 to arrive and final decisions to be made. If i had the space, budge and i was listening for pleasure, i would 100% keep both amps



Honeypot said:


> I see much love for the FA-10. Not so much for the FA-12. Why is that?
> I am about to purchase it :x



Hopefully i've reassured you, that or sent you to sleep, but if you dont need the power of the 10, you'll find very little not to like, even less if you running it balanced .


----------



## teknorob23

PhazeCrive said:


> Should I get the a90/d90 stack or the FCN-10? Or what's a good dac for the regular fa-10 and pro? Cant decide on the regular or pro version



My two penneth here would be similar, the A90, while highly accomplished at the price, is just two linear and flat, ultimately lacking in engagement and just a little bit dull. The Fa10/FCN-10 are on a different level when it comes to engagement and musicality, both subjective features, but ones that really highlight you the difference between amps designed for listening pleasure and hifi designed to measure well... this is a bit harsh perhaps, as i do have to keep reminding myself the a90 is $450. When it comes to comparing the FCN10 as DAC and Amp, i'd have to say the dac isnt quite as accomplished as the amp stage, but it is beautifully matched and while not as out and out resolving as other stand-alone dacs it plays perfectly with the FA10's strengths. From my experience with combo's around or below the £1K mark like DX7pro and RME ADI2 where the DAC's streets ahead of very lacklustre amp stages, which i'd argue in headfi, is definitely the wrong way around priority-wise. So again the FCN10 would more than likely work very well for you, but if it was my money i have to say i'd save a bit more for a Chord Qutest or RME AD12 (purely to use as a dac) to partner with the FA10.


----------



## Honeypot (Jan 3, 2021)

teknorob23 said:


> Hopefully i've reassured you, that or sent you to sleep, but if you dont need the power of the 10, you'll find very little not to like, even less if you running it balanced .


Well I was almost decided on the fa-12, you just made it easier. 
Now my only two issues is the stock being backorder, and the size of the amp. I don't know where I'm going to fit this big monster.
It looks like one of my old speaker amps.


----------



## teknorob23

Honeypot said:


> Well I was almost decided on the fa-12, you just made it easier.
> Now my only two issues is the stock being backorder, and the size of the amp. I don't know where I'm going to fit this big monster.
> It looks like one of my old speaker amps.



It's not too big in the flesh but yep tough doing for the desktop... the Volot is going to be full width 44cm, so its dinky compared that


----------



## brianfromspace

Thanks guys again for your help. Amazing what forums can mean for ones buying decision. Thanks for your honest story @teknorob23, much appreciated and I hope that business will thrive in 2021. On the other side (Amsterdam) we also think it sucks (Brexit) specially for business.

Brian.


----------



## Sound Eq

teknorob23 said:


> First off you're brave man wading through all 70-odd pages. It's a tough call on the Fa12 vs FA10 count especially if like me outright power is less of consideration. There is is a lack of Fa12 impressions on here which is mainly of course down to the fact that i think there are only couple of people on hear who have bought or heard it the 12. As with you Vitally at Flux steered me towards the 12, based on techno/ IDM, presented in analogue fashion and my HP's at the time Senn HD820, and this was even in the context that i was looking at partnering with the Hugo2, so not using the balanced topology, just based on tuning preference. I have to say it was spot on advice, yes the 12 is richer and slightly warmer, but with more body from the bass up and mids like i've not heard before, so lush, natural but still well separated. The top end is a big surprise in that i'd expected it to be slightly dark, but in actual fact its not rolled off in the slightest and is more extended than the Fa10.
> 
> As you probably picked up on about page 32  Flux kindly leant me the FCN10 before it went out to reviewers in the UK. I loved it straight away, because despite from having more similarities than differences, those differences made it just as beguiling as the 12. I recently lent to the @manishex, an expectant FA10 owner who summed up the differences really well, the 12 is fiery, full exciting, whereas the Fa10 natural and earthy, but no less exciting.
> 
> ...


but fcn10 does not have an r2r dac


----------



## gancanjam (Jan 3, 2021)

My reply was double posted ..so removing this reply


----------



## teknorob23

Sound Eq said:


> but fcn10 does not have an r2r dac



No it doesn’t but it’s tuning has similarities to the r2r dacs I’ve heard. Apologies if I wasn’t clear.


----------



## gancanjam

manishex said:


> I've had the fa-12 and fa-10 side by side. If you have hard to drive planars the fa-10 will power them gloriously meaning full dynamics and soundstage. The fa-10 treble is more laid back which would work well with brighter headphones like some hifiman, otherwise get a the fa-10 pro for dark headphones and/or avoid warm dacs.
> 
> Fa-12 is slightly richer than the fa-10 in the lower mids. Fa-12 is a fiery sound, fa-10 is an earthy sound.



A new term ! "Earthy" is a Scent-ophile (?)  term than an Audiophile term ..LOL .. It certainly can resonate with audience though ! Especially pairing FA-10 with warmer HPs gives  that "grounded" a.k.a. Earthy vibe


----------



## brianfromspace (Jan 3, 2021)

I’d like to try it first with my Fiio M15 dap with Roon playing through this device with 2x  AKM4499 DAC. Balanced 4.4mm to xlr into FA-10/12. Anyone else experience with daps?

i’m not sure if this dac player is good enough for the Flux amps.


----------



## gancanjam (Jan 5, 2021)

brianfromspace said:


> I’d like to try it first with my Fiio M15 dap with Roon playing through this device with 2x  AKM4499 DAC. Balanced 4.4mm to xlr into FA-10/12. Anyone else experience with daps?
> 
> i’m not sure if this dac player is good enough for the Flux amps.



I am from IEM background and have used DAPs like the AKs / DXs / Sonys / Cayins. They work great with IEMs giving that portable flexibility. Not many would have tried DAPs >> Full size Amps >> Full size HPs yet. Would suggest you try that first to see if in built DAP DAC is capable else you may have to buy another DAC for FA-10/FA-12. More than the Chip set, in DAC the design / topology is very important, unsure how it was done in a palm sized DAP to support a full size Amp.


----------



## gancanjam

teknorob23 said:


> My two penneth here would be similar, the A90, while highly accomplished at the price, is just two linear and flat, ultimately lacking in engagement and just a little bit dull. The Fa10/FCN-10 are on a different level when it comes to engagement and musicality, both subjective features, but ones that really highlight you the difference between amps designed for listening pleasure and hifi designed to measure well... this is a bit harsh perhaps, as i do have to keep reminding myself the a90 is $450. When it comes to comparing the FCN10 as DAC and Amp, i'd have to say the dac isnt quite as accomplished as the amp stage, but it is beautifully matched and while not as out and out resolving as other stand-alone dacs it plays perfectly with the FA10's strengths. From my experience with combo's around or below the £1K mark like DX7pro and RME ADI2 where the DAC's streets ahead of very lacklustre amp stages, which i'd argue in headfi, is definitely the wrong way around priority-wise. So again the FCN10 would more than likely work very well for you, but if it was my money i have to say i'd save a bit more for a Chord Qutest or RME AD12 (purely to use as a dac) to partner with the FA10.



Agree.. FCN -10 in built DAC will do just fine but given a choice for few hundred dollars more, RME or Used Qutest or Hugo 2  will be a better choice for FA-10. In a nut shell, Details and treble response will be better from these DACs compared to FCN-10 DAC.


----------



## brianfromspace

Problem i have if i move away from the dap, next to a dac i also need a Roon ready streamer.


----------



## teknorob23

brianfromspace said:


> Problem i have if i move away from the dap, next to a dac i also need a Roon ready streamer.



Financially bad but audibly worth it. I can highly recommend either the allo usb bridge signature which is incredible value for £299. We’ve had lots of streamers in to test with our Ethernet filter and this is one of the best under £1k, so I much so I kept it. Add a psu at a later date and it goes up another level. Runs seamlessly with roon too. If you prefer spdif their digione sig is just as good but a bit more pricey.


----------



## Honeypot

Hey guys, do you have any info on the availability of the FA-12? I asked Flux on email and i didn't get any response yet. 
Currently is on backorder status..


----------



## SQ13

teknorob23 said:


> Financially bad but audibly worth it. I can highly recommend either the allo usb bridge signature which is incredible value for £299. We’ve had lots of streamers in to test with our Ethernet filter and this is one of the best under £1k, so I much so I kept it. Add a psu at a later date and it goes up another level. Runs seamlessly with roon too. If you prefer spdif their digione sig is just as good but a bit more pricey.



Besides streaming, can the Allo usb bridge act as a music player and play flac/dsd files from a microSD card or a usb drive?
Do you simply connect the "clean" usb to the dac?
thanks


----------



## brianfromspace

SQ13 said:


> Besides streaming, can the Allo usb bridge act as a music player and play flac/dsd files from a microSD card or a usb drive?
> Do you simply connect the "clean" usb to the dac?
> thanks



Yes you can hook up USB drive to my knowledge.


----------



## teknorob23

SQ13 said:


> Besides streaming, can the Allo usb bridge act as a music player and play flac/dsd files from a microSD card or a usb drive?
> Do you simply connect the "clean" usb to the dac?
> thanks



It’s designed as an endpoint so it needs music server to which you attached library drives and stream from, whether that’s a pc of dedicated server. The sd slot is for the OS, re clean usb is output for dac, the other two are for accessories like wifi dongle.


----------



## cangle (Jan 4, 2021)

teknorob23 said:


> Financially bad but audibly worth it. I can highly recommend either the allo usb bridge signature which is incredible value for £299. We’ve had lots of streamers in to test with our Ethernet filter and this is one of the best under £1k, so I much so I kept it. Add a psu at a later date and it goes up another level. Runs seamlessly with roon too. If you prefer spdif their digione sig is just as good but a bit more pricey.


+1 for the Allo streamer. I'm using the digione signature as a roon endpoint powered by their shanti linear psu and am very happy with it.

Edit: I'm using RoPieee as the OS


----------



## cangle

Also I'm planning on purchasing an FA-12 in the next few days.


----------



## Slim1970

gancanjam said:


> Agree.. FCN -10 in built DAC will do just fine but given a choice for few hundred dollars more, RME or Used Qutest or Hugo 2  will be a better choice for FA-10. In a nut shell, Details and treble response will be better from these DACs compared to FCN-10 DAC.


Yes, I’ve had two of the three connected to my FA-10, the RME and Hugo 2. Both improved the FA-10‘s treble response. The Hugo 2 also brought improvements in other areas as well. Namely, speed, clarity, and definition.


----------



## mikem1062

SQ13 said:


> Besides streaming, can the Allo usb bridge act as a music player and play flac/dsd files from a microSD card or a usb drive?
> Do you simply connect the "clean" usb to the dac?
> thanks



I'm using a USBridge Signature and have a USB stick plugged into one of the two "Wifi/BT" USB ports on the front. I can play files from the USB stick using either of the two OS's I've tried (Volumio & Moode). Not sure if an unpowered USB drive would work - it might draw too much power, but a USB stick works great.


----------



## SQ13

mikem1062 said:


> I'm using a USBridge Signature and have a USB stick plugged into one of the two "Wifi/BT" USB ports on the front. I can play files from the USB stick using either of the two OS's I've tried (Volumio & Moode). Not sure if an unpowered USB drive would work - it might draw too much power, but a USB stick works great.



Thanks, that works for me as I use usb stick more than NAS ( i have always power off the NAS). 
As I am new to Volumio and Moode, which do you recommend as a starter? and I can experiment with the other at a later stage.
Thanks for you help.


----------



## pinkpiglet

Hello everyone, is there any news on volot? I was planning to buy the FA-10 and send it to be modded, but after I calculated the cost of shipping, modding and taxes, it end up at around $1500. So, I think if volot is right around the corner and it has a significant upgrade, might as well go for the volot right?


----------



## gancanjam (Jan 5, 2021)

pinkpiglet said:


> Hello everyone, is there any news on volot? I was planning to buy the FA-10 and send it to be modded, but after I calculated the cost of shipping, modding and taxes, it end up at around $1500. So, I think if volot is right around the corner and it has a significant upgrade, might as well go for the volot right?



$750 FA-10, $100 normal shipping, Usually no tax on top of it when it comes to US but not sure about other countries if those countries levy any taxes or additional shipping prices. So modding is $650  for a $750 Amp ?  Oh, may be you have to pay for shipping for modding also ?


----------



## pinkpiglet

gancanjam said:


> $750 FA-10, $100 normal shipping, Usually no tax on top of it when it comes to US but not sure about other countries if those countries levy any taxes or additional shipping prices. So modding is $650  for a $750 Amp ? bit high IMO


I live in Indonesia, so I have to pay for shipping twice. The FA-10 is $750, the shipping to @ksorota is $100 and shipping to my home is another $100. I was quoted at $425 for the modding, which adds up to $1375. Then there's the tax. The tax here is quite ambiguous, so I would spare around $100 for the tax.


----------



## elira

Does anyone have pics of the mentioned mod?


----------



## gancanjam

pinkpiglet said:


> I live in Indonesia, so I have to pay for shipping twice. The FA-10 is $750, the shipping to @ksorota is $100 and shipping to my home is another $100. I was quoted at $425 for the modding, which adds up to $1375. Then there's the tax. The tax here is quite ambiguous, so I would spare around $100 for the tax.



Thanks, yeah it all adds up .. but i have heard good things about FA-10 modding


----------



## pinkpiglet

gancanjam said:


> Thanks, yeah it all adds up .. but i have heard good things about FA-10 modding


I really want the modded FA-10, but at that price, I think there are other amps that are better.


----------



## SQ13

it will get good to get the details of the mods, have option from the modder to purchase the product, mod and send the updated version to you. this will save on some shipping.
Can we order from Flux with upgraded component, this will cut away the time lag and direct from factory.


----------



## cangle

Just placed an order for the FA-12. Shipping to Massachusetts is 100 plus other fees. I will post updates here since the item is backordered for those that were wondering how long the back order wait is


----------



## mikem1062

SQ13 said:


> As I am new to Volumio and Moode, which do you recommend as a starter? and I can experiment with the other at a later stage.



I'll PM you - we're heading a bit off topic with that discussion.


----------



## cangle

I received an order confirmation for the FA-12 from Vitaliy. Backorder wait is still about 2 weeks. Also they're out of black face plates so it looks like I will be getting a red one instead.


----------



## sinnsu

What is the output impedance of the fa-10?


----------



## Honeypot

One more on the FA-12 train! 
I just placed my order. 
Long wait now


----------



## Wolfvms

TheMadHatter said:


> Hi all,  new here and a bit of lurker.  I appreciate all the great info this site provides.
> 
> I ordered an FA-12 back in June and got it on August 3.  I have really enjoyed it since and believe it clearly outperforms both my EL AMP II and my Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear.  At least terms of how much more energetic and musical the sound is to my untrained ears.  I just enjoy listening more and have done some A/B to verify (as best I can - the true test would be blind) that I am not imagining it.
> 
> ...


How is FA-12 better than your Graham Slee? I own the last and it is the best with Grado PS1000, better than with Topping A90, Laconic Night Blues Mini, and Sony TA-ZH1ES. I am thinking about buying a FA-10 specifically for Hifiman HE560.


----------



## TheMadHatter

I would say that the GS is just what is says it is, linear and accurate. I find it great for listening to acoustic brass or strings.  It can get a bit harsh (to my ears) at times in the upper register - especially for "louder" music (symphonic rock, for example).  The FA-12 is just more magical - not a technical term.  I just prefer it for most music (rock, alternative, folk mostly).  And even for classical, it is very nice. FA-12 is kind of my go to: it's good for almost everything and exquisite for much of my collection. 

FYI, I don't use power hungry cans and I haven't yet added an open-backed phone to my mix (house limitations). I am currently thinking an open headphone is my next priority.


----------



## Honeypot

Halo!
Are you using se or balanced? (Both in/out) is it audible difference?


----------



## Badlands

TheMadHatter said:


> I would say that the GS is just what is says it is, linear and accurate. I find it great for listening to acoustic brass or strings.  It can get a bit harsh (to my ears) at times in the upper register - especially for "louder" music (symphonic rock, for example).  The FA-12 is just more magical - not a technical term.  I just prefer it for most music (rock, alternative, folk mostly).  And even for classical, it is very nice. FA-12 is kind of my go to: it's good for almost everything and exquisite for much of my collection.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TheMadHatter

Honeypot said:


> Halo!
> Are you using se or balanced? (Both in/out) is it audible difference?



I currently only use SE.   Experimenting with balanced would require purchasing interconnects and new headphone cables.  My next investment will likely be an open backed headphone (my current ones are all closed).


----------



## Badlands

Hello, I have an El Amp II as well. Wondering how the FA-12 compares to your ears. Was thinking of purchasing the FA-12 or 12s. Any impressions would be most welcome. Thanks!


----------



## TheMadHatter

The El Amp II is excellent. But the FA-12 is just a step up in level. For me, that just means the "wow" factor when I listen with it. Having said that, the JDS Stack was an "upgrade" from using the Dragonfly Cobalt, and it was truly an upgrade.  When I can actually go back to an office not in my house, the JDS Stack will go with me.


----------



## Badlands

Thanks so much for your impressions! Agree that the EL Amp II is excellent. It has great synergy with my Auteur and Solaris SE. Honestly, everything I own sounds awesome on it. Despite the high sensitivity of the SE, it’s background is dead silent which speaks to the quality and versatility of EL Amp II. However, I’m so intrigued with how my M400 DAC may pair with a different amp in that next price tier. Will most likely go with a balanced amp like the FA 12 vs the 12s. Also considering the Liquid Gold X despite the paucity of reviews but the couple I’ve read/seen have been positive. I see you have an Ares II which is highly regarded. Perhaps someday when this awful pandemic is behind us, events like CanJam can resume so we can actually listen to gear prior to purchasing. Will certainly update this thread if I go with the FA12 and thanks again for your thoughts!


----------



## brianfromspace

Just ordered the FA12 with red front! Very excited.

Yesterday i listened to the AudioValve RKV HAA edition in a headphone store in Amsterdam.
The best my Hifiman Arya's have ever sounded! Never expected that a tube amp would work well with techno music. Compared to the SS ElevenXIAudio used for the Abyss i found that listening to the Audiovalve (€2.8K) it felt being in the club listening to house music, the ElevenXIAudio (€7.3K) is a very precise more clear vision on how the track is build, could use this is the studio very nicely. I think it depends on the day which you would prefer. Wouldn't it be great to have a hybrid system with a switch (lamps on/lamps off)

Listened to the Burson Soloist 3XP as well. Sounded harsh in the top end and didn't like more damp sound that came out of it. I missed the bass that the Audiovalve gave me, the full bodied sound without lacking detail.The stereo image/separation of elements/width of the Audiovalve is what i am looking for in a desktop system vs my Fiio M15 DAP (that I will use now with my IEM's very happily)

Then the person of the store put the Hifiman H1KV2 on my head, .......     Yes it gives me even more information on the track, a very beautiful image of the song. Putting back the Arya's on I didn't miss it that much. I'm not gonna spend 3.5K on a headphone vs 1.6K.

So Flux FA12, I am so keen on finding out if you can give me all of the above.


----------



## Honeypot (Jan 8, 2021)

brianfromspace said:


> Just ordered the FA12 with red front! Very excited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may have take the last red plate >.<
I have to choose yellow since no black left either.
Hope Vitaliy can work some magic ✨
I don't have any yellow item in my room


----------



## brianfromspace

Honeypot said:


> You may have take the last red plate >.<
> I have to choose yellow since no black left either.
> Hope Vitaliy can work some magic ✨
> I don't have any yellow item in my room



sorry buddy! Nothint is red in my room either, but if the FA12 is like others here describe, it should also have an odd colour to emphasize it’s character.


----------



## Honeypot

brianfromspace said:


> sorry buddy! Nothint is red in my room either, but if the FA12 is like others here describe, it should also have an odd colour to emphasize it’s character.


Good point. I was thinking something similar too. Perhaps it really deserves to stand out. 🤔


----------



## Terriero

TheMadHatter said:


> The El Amp II is excellent. But the FA-12 is just a step up in level. For me, that just means the "wow" factor when I listen with it. Having said that, the JDS Stack was an "upgrade" from using the Dragonfly Cobalt, and it was truly an upgrade.  When I can actually go back to an office not in my house, the JDS Stack will go with me.


What about pairing your 9200s with your FA12 (against pairing with your other AMPs)? Do you notice a true difference or just slightly? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Has anyone compared the FA-10 or FA-12 to the new Schiit Jotunheim 2? I know they are in a different price category, but would be interested in how they compare nonetheless.


----------



## Flextreme

What is the status of the volot? It looks so tempting and potentially the perfect amp for Susvara.


----------



## Honeypot

2 weeks more to go for the fa-12 to come!


----------



## rmsanger

So my favorite YT reviewer currently has the Volot and the first take was very impressive.  He said the review is coming in Feb.  He just posted a review of the latest Flavor of the Month amp (which he gushed over) from you know who but told me to sit tight and wait for the Volot take.


----------



## elira

rmsanger said:


> So my favorite YT reviewer currently has the Volot and the first take was very impressive.  He said the review is coming in Feb.  He just posted a review of the latest Flavor of the Month amp (which he gushed over) from you know who but told me to sit tight and wait for the Volot take.


Any details on price?


----------



## rmsanger

elira said:


> Any details on price?


Nope he only gave me cliffs so I didn’t push for details will post the link when it’s up.

Hopefully we’ll get something from Flux by then.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

rmsanger said:


> Nope he only gave me cliffs so I didn’t push for details will post the link when it’s up.
> 
> Hopefully we’ll get something from Flux by then.



What channel is it?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Headfonia i guess.


----------



## pinkpiglet

I think Sandu from Soundnews also have volot on hand. He said it in a comment in his SMSL SP400 video.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Here it is:


----------



## lalawilson168

Any of the FA10/12 owners have experience with ZMF headphones? I have a pair of Verite C and am looking for a SS amp to pair with it.


----------



## NickT23

lalawilson168 said:


> Any of the FA10/12 owners have experience with ZMF headphones? I have a pair of Verite C and am looking for a SS amp to pair with it.


do yourself a favour and use tubes please !


----------



## jonathan c

NickT23 said:


> do yourself a favour and use tubes please !


Yes, tubes: with an impedance of 300 ohms, the VC will match wonderfully with an OTL (output transformer-less) headphone amplifier such as the Bottlehead Crack 1.1. If you must go solid state, the Violectric V280 is a great pick: it has a touch of tube “liquidity”.


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> Yes, tubes: with an impedance of 300 ohms, the VC will match wonderfully with an OTL (output transformer-less) headphone amplifier such as the Bottlehead Crack 1.1. If you must go solid state, the Violectric V280 is a great pick: it has a touch of tube “liquidity”.


But to be honest, class A is not bad with ZMF. I can confirmed this based on tonality based on my knowledge.


----------



## lalawilson168

jonathan c said:


> Yes, tubes: with an impedance of 300 ohms, the VC will match wonderfully with an OTL (output transformer-less) headphone amplifier such as the Bottlehead Crack 1.1. If you must go solid state, the Violectric V280 is a great pick: it has a touch of tube “liquidity”.



Thanks for the reply, I agree I literally just finished up the SB upgrade on my BH crack and yes it does sound lovely on the VC. But I do want to get an upgrade to my current SS amp (thx887s which I don't really like) and hopefully one that's warm and has enough power for most things. For sub 1k the flux labs amps caught my eye....


----------



## Honeypot

Any of the fa-12 owners, do you know the output impedance of the amp?


----------



## jonathan c

Honeypot said:


> Any of the fa-12 owners, do you know the output impedance of the amp?


0.1 ohm


----------



## Swisstoni

teknorob23 said:


> I've enjoyed reading all the impressions posted here while i've been away, but having been listening directly out of my Hugo2 for the last 3 weeks and really enjoying it, i was worried i might have fallen out of love with the FA12.  I neednt have worried, one night back and not a single thought about going straight back into the h2, the way frequency's flow in and out of one another and the extra texture and shape each note has is just as beguiling as it ever was.
> 
> There seems to have been a raft of "album of the year" worthy electronic music coming out over the last few weeks, which has made coming back to 14 days quarantine a little more bearable. The absolute highlight for me being "Articulation " by Rival Consoles (96/24 on Qobuz), short but seriously sweet and sounding stunning on the FA12.
> 
> ...


----------



## rmsanger

So I'm still wrestling with my excitement for the pending Volot release.  The general positive feedback and excitement for Flux in 2020 was around the FA-10 (standard) and that you get hifi performance at the MidFi price.  I won't step on the other products (FA-12 and FA-10 Pro) but that was my general takeaway.

I had a few contacts that paired the FA-10 with Susvara, HE6SEv2, and 1266 Phi TC that came away happy but still wanted more in terms of resolution, sound stage, and technical performance.   Hence I think this is where the Volot will step in with it's fully balanced topology improvements.

I guess my general question is the "fun" or musical sound signature that made the FA-10 a hit is there risk that to achieve the technical improvements does it take a step back in those aspects?  It is possible to still maintain the musicality but get the top level details in the mids/treble that both the susvara and 1266 can show off?


----------



## Fafner (Jan 20, 2021)

Let's just hope it won't take 2 more years to get released. It was supposed to be pretty much ready one year and one half ago.
Yeah, I know some reviewers are supposed to have it, but I don't take for granted it's a final unit.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> So I'm still wrestling with my excitement for the pending Volot release.  The general positive feedback and excitement for Flux in 2020 was around the FA-10 (standard) and that you get hifi performance at the MidFi price.  I won't step on the other products (FA-12 and FA-10 Pro) but that was my general takeaway.
> 
> I had a few contacts that paired the FA-10 with Susvara, HE6SEv2, and 1266 Phi TC that came away happy but still wanted more in terms of resolution, sound stage, and technical performance.   Hence I think this is where the Volot will step in with it's fully balanced topology improvements.
> 
> I guess my general question is the "fun" or musical sound signature that made the FA-10 a hit is there risk that to achieve the technical improvements does it take a step back in those aspects?  It is possible to still maintain the musicality but get the top level details in the mids/treble that both the susvara and 1266 can show off?


This is where the mod helps improve things along with the Hifi Tuning Supreme fuse in the FA-10. Details, resolution, soundstage, and technicalities are all bumped up quite a bit. I do feel the mod maxes out the FA-10 performance. Listening to the modded FA-10 next to my V281 the sound is very competitive only losing out in ultimate resolution in the treble region. The V281 sounds more open and airy from the upper midrange on, but the gap is lessened with tThe mod. The Formula S is a step up on both even without the Powerman, which I don’t have at the moment.

After comparing the FA-10 to both the Formula S and V281, I do think the Volot with be even better. Only because of the FA-10‘s singled ended topology design. I doubt I’ll pick one up since I have both a XI Audio Formula S and Violectric V281 now. Even with those amps, I still prefer my Susvara’s on the modded FA-10. The Susvara/FA-10 combo is really special.


----------



## rmsanger (Jan 20, 2021)

.


----------



## bulpy

Hi there! 
Happy recent FA-10's owner (received 3 days ago!!), I'm wondering how well the FA-10 would be paired with Matrix X-Sabre Pro MQA. 
Did someone ever have this experience ? Does it pair well to the amp ?
Any other source suggestion based on your listening experience?
Many thanks for your help!
As for now I'm using an iMac + Audirvana + SysOptimiser + Topping D90
But I feel this great amp would deserve an upgraded source...
(I didn't read the 83 pages of this topic, sorry if this question has been already asked!)


----------



## wisit

Does anyone know if it’s possible to change the input voltage from 110V to 220V on the FA-10 Pro?


----------



## Honeypot

bulpy said:


> Hi there!
> Happy recent FA-10's owner (received 3 days ago!!), I'm wondering how well the FA-10 would be paired with Matrix X-Sabre Pro MQA.
> Did someone ever have this experience ? Does it pair well to the amp ?
> Any other source suggestion based on your listening experience?
> ...


Wish my fa-12 was on stock... ;(


wisit said:


> Does anyone know if it’s possible to change the input voltage from 110V to 220V on the FA-10 Pro?


Ask them at info@fluxlab-acoustics.com


----------



## rmsanger

Update on Volot and response from Flux/Vitaliy:

"To be honest, the current demand on actual products makes us a bit overloaded, local situation due to COVID pandemic situation doesn't help. As you may know, after receiving a lot of requests we decided to equip VOLOT with preamplifier outputs, that feature also adds some additional points for testing and engineering, now we are waiting of the final version of PCBs to make some tests and measurements. After that we will start the mass production. Be sure that would be a different point of signature and dynamics, but the details will be later "

Looks like any reviews coming in Feb are from a pre-production unit or prototype.   For me it's a shame for a 6 month product release delay due to preamp but if that is what the customer wants then so be it.  Here's to hoping a product release comes in Mar/Apr timeframe!


----------



## teknorob23

rmsanger said:


> Update on Volot and response from Flux/Vitaliy:
> 
> "To be honest, the current demand on actual products makes us a bit overloaded, local situation due to COVID pandemic situation doesn't help. As you may know, after receiving a lot of requests we decided to equip VOLOT with preamplifier outputs, that feature also adds some additional points for testing and engineering, now we are waiting of the final version of PCBs to make some tests and measurements. After that we will start the mass production. Be sure that would be a different point of signature and dynamics, but the details will be later "
> 
> Looks like any reviews coming in Feb are from a pre-production unit or prototype.   For me it's a shame for a 6 month product release delay due to preamp but if that is what the customer wants then so be it.  Here's to hoping a product release comes in Mar/Apr timeframe!



Its all too tantalising, so i've set up a thread where we can speculate, console one another and hopefully one day soon discuss our impressions of the still mythical VOLOT...

In lieu of any useful information,  perhaps we can discuss practicalities like what sort shelf we need to build to take its weight 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...-reviews-and-discussion.952903/#post-16123285


----------



## NickT23

rmsanger said:


> So I'm still wrestling with my excitement for the pending Volot release.  The general positive feedback and excitement for Flux in 2020 was around the FA-10 (standard) and that you get hifi performance at the MidFi price.  I won't step on the other products (FA-12 and FA-10 Pro) but that was my general takeaway.
> 
> I had a few contacts that paired the FA-10 with Susvara, HE6SEv2, and 1266 Phi TC that came away happy but still wanted more in terms of resolution, sound stage, and technical performance.   Hence I think this is where the Volot will step in with it's fully balanced topology improvements.
> 
> I guess my general question is the "fun" or musical sound signature that made the FA-10 a hit is there risk that to achieve the technical improvements does it take a step back in those aspects?  It is possible to still maintain the musicality but get the top level details in the mids/treble that both the susvara and 1266 can show off?


Yes but Volot wins in this category. Am waiting for more competition for linear class A.


----------



## Fafner (Jan 22, 2021)

Tbh judging from the replies they're giving they look like the least convinced about an imminent release. I have a feeling this won't even make into 2021, just like it didn't for 2020. Think I'll look for something else, can't wait forever. Let's not forget this thing was socially promoted mid-2019 and supposed to be pretty much rdy for pre-order.

"Assembling of limited first batch is a full swing 😉 book yours" was posted on IG on 31 July 2019! Did someone book it? I can imagine the frustration.

It's January 2021 and things are foggier than at that time.


----------



## Flextreme (Jan 22, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> Update on Volot and response from Flux/Vitaliy:
> 
> "To be honest, the current demand on actual products makes us a bit overloaded, local situation due to COVID pandemic situation doesn't help. As you may know, after receiving a lot of requests we decided to equip VOLOT with preamplifier outputs, that feature also adds some additional points for testing and engineering, now we are waiting of the final version of PCBs to make some tests and measurements. After that we will start the mass production. Be sure that would be a different point of signature and dynamics, but the details will be later "
> 
> Looks like any reviews coming in Feb are from a pre-production unit or prototype. For me it's a shame for a 6 month product release delay due to preamp but if that is what the customer wants then so be it.  Here's to hoping a product release comes in Mar/Apr timeframe!



I recently got the Holo Audio May Dac, its development cycle took way longer than expected. The result is completely worth it, the May is without doubt one of the best DACs in its price class. I prefer the Flux guys to take the same route, especially when the result is worth it. I do not care about the pre-amp function currently, but it is completely understandable from a business perspective. As an fresh Susvara owner, I am super curious what the Volot can bring.

I can only recommend the Flux team to be a little more open about their development roadmap and production cycle (similar to crowdfunded projects): it will help gain traction and mindshare from the community. Just do not use Cyberpunk 2077 overpromise and underdeliver approach .


----------



## Namtar

I'm excited and hoping that more information will be forthcoming soon for the VOLOT.   I'm starting to save up and I've considered an AGD Master 9 or HE-9 for my Endgame - but I've intentionally held off once I heard about the upgrade to the FA-10.


----------



## NickT23

Namtar said:


> I'm excited and hoping that more information will be forthcoming soon for the VOLOT.   I'm starting to save up and I've considered an AGD Master 9 or HE-9 for my Endgame - but I've intentionally held off once I heard about the upgrade to the FA-10.


Yeah but most of us cant afford it. For people with loads of cash to spare.


----------



## sahmen (Jan 22, 2021)

I also added my voice to those asking for a pre-amp function in the Volot, but the related delay is not going to make me regret it.  Speaking of delays, I do not think one should underestimate the role of the mentioned Covid-19-related obstacles that are also--and at least partially--responsible for them... Even the production and rollout of already released audio products, such as the Niimbus US4 (+) or the V550/590 products from Lake People, are currently experiencing bumps and delays that are at least partially generated by Covid-19 related causes.  Hell, if Covid-19 vaccine rollouts, which are a thousand times more important than any audio gear I can personally think of, are themselves hamstrung by all kinds of delays, I can certainly find it in my heart to "forgive" Flux Lab for delaying the release of a VOLOT, the importance or significance of which pale in comparison to those vaccines.  Not that Flux Lab actually needs any "forgiveness" from me, but I digress.

I do have a Violectric V281 and a modded Fa-10 in hand. They are currently playing the roles of (more than merely) capable holdovers in driving my favorite cans, such as the Susvara or the LCD-4, whiles I wait for the VOLOT or whatever "end-gamish" SS headphone amp I decide to buy next.  Those are the purely selfish reasons behind the position I am currently defending, and I perfectly understand that the mileages of other enthusiasts may vary. 

However, from that purely selfish perspective, a pre-amp in the VOLOT enhances its competitiveness with alternatives such as the Violectric V550 and even the Niimbus US4 (+), which I am also patiently considering.  I normally want my headphone amps in this relatively expensive price brackets to double as pre-amps to feed speaker amps inside the 2-channel/HT systems within which they are deployed, so those pre-amps are not exactly desired for purely cosmetic or decorative reasons...   .

My V281, for example, is doing an excellent job in relaying the signal chain that is feeding the two monoblocks that are driving my front tower speakers, while at the same time, doing a totally "bonkers" job in driving any headphone I throw at it, as it should.

As for Flux Labs, I am personally convinced by the robust customer service relations that they maintain in places such as facebook, and the care with which they have produced and promoted all the amps or amp/Dac units in the FA-XX-(pro) series, not to mention their ATLAS, that they are not lacking at all in the "hunger for success" department. I am accordingly persuaded that they are as eager to get their VOLOT to the market, as most of us enthusiasts are to hear, and potentially own it. Seen in that light, I feel cautiously, but, comfortably optimistic about waiting for it.


----------



## Namtar

NickT23 said:


> Yeah but most of us cant afford it. For people with loads of cash to spare.


It's more my bi-yearly splurge where I throw something I want onto my paypal credit and try to knock it down a bit up front to shorten the repayment.... I'm sure it'll be crazy expensive but it will be the last headphone amp I'll likely ever need in my lifetime.  If it solved my upgraditus for that piece of equipment I think of it as a long term investment.


----------



## NickT23

Namtar said:


> It's more my bi-yearly splurge where I throw something I want onto my paypal credit and try to knock it down a bit up front to shorten the repayment.... I'm sure it'll be crazy expensive but it will be the last headphone amp I'll likely ever need in my lifetime.  If it solved my upgraditus for that piece of equipment I think of it as a long term investment.


Yes agree ! So its better be good ! Its the only Class A for neutrality. I sell my car next time.


----------



## manishex (Jan 24, 2021)

They just posted the atlas on their Facebook
5k all in one:

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/atlas/?attribute_pa_voltage=eu-230v

Although it was released a while back...


----------



## cangle (Jan 24, 2021)

Removed


----------



## gancanjam

Volot or Atlas ? which is the Flux king of hill ? Flux sometimes confuses us a lot


----------



## manishex

gancanjam said:


> Volot or Atlas ? which is the Flux king of hill   Flux sometimes confuses us a lot


Atlas has normal power specs, the Volot will have fa-10 monstrous power. Also Atlas has also dac + streamer which means for just amplification the Volot may be better


----------



## gancanjam

manishex said:


> Atlas has normal power specs, the Volot will have fa-10 monstrous power. Also Atlas has also dac + streamer which means for just amplification the Volot may be better



Very interested in the sound signature of both in addition to the power, will see how Flux articulates it. When they released FA-10, FA-12, FA-12 pro etc. , many were unclear on how Flux is positioning each of their product so hoping when Volot comes out there will be clarity


----------



## funkur

lalawilson168 said:


> Any of the FA10/12 owners have experience with ZMF headphones? I have a pair of Verite C and am looking for a SS amp to pair with it.



I have the VC's and love the pairing with the FA-10.  

I was always a warmer SS guy vs tubes for 2ch speaker listening.  However, based on what I had heard/read, ZMF's love tubes so I auditioned a few like the Hagerman Tuba and Linear Tube Audio MZ2.  While the LTA amp sounded great, the FA-10 arrived and it was game over for me (until the Volot release probably!).


----------



## Slim1970

funkur said:


> I have the VC's and love the pairing with the FA-10.
> 
> I was always a warmer SS guy vs tubes for 2ch speaker listening.  However, based on what I had heard/read, ZMF's love tubes so I auditioned a few like the Hagerman Tuba and Linear Tube Audio MZ2.  While the LTA amp sounded great, the FA-10 arrived and it was game over for me (until the Volot release probably!).


This exactly what makes the FA-10 special. It has a tube-like sweetness to it's sound with one of the best midranges I ever on a solid state amp. The mod gives it some solid state edginess, crispness and the sound is quite additive. My Susvara's never sounded so good, no kidding.


----------



## lalawilson168

funkur said:


> I have the VC's and love the pairing with the FA-10.
> 
> I was always a warmer SS guy vs tubes for 2ch speaker listening.  However, based on what I had heard/read, ZMF's love tubes so I auditioned a few like the Hagerman Tuba and Linear Tube Audio MZ2.  While the LTA amp sounded great, the FA-10 arrived and it was game over for me (until the Volot release probably!).



I am definitely looking at getting one of these two, but I cant decide upon which (obviously only have funds for one!), I am leaning towards the FA-12s since my collection of headphones aren't super power hungry (VC, 6XX, Ananda), and I do want to try some Class A goodness with the ZMFs.


----------



## Honeypot

lalawilson168 said:


> I am definitely looking at getting one of these two, but I cant decide upon which (obviously only have funds for one!), I am leaning towards the FA-12s since my collection of headphones aren't super power hungry (VC, 6XX, Ananda), and I do want to try some Class A goodness with the ZMFs.


I was in your position and i ended up going for the fa-12. Full balanced class a.


----------



## amele

is  FA-10 good pairing with Arya and Empyrean


----------



## amele

what do you think about the combination of FA-10 PRO Class-A Headphone Amplifier and MUSICIAN PEGASUS 32Bit / 1536kHz 24Bit R2R DAC


----------



## oniel459

gancanjam said:


> Had a chance to compare FCN-10 / FA-10 with some of the DACs/Amplifiers discussed in this recent last week thread, here are some brief comparisons . Utopia is a neutral HP which mirrors the characteristics of the DAC & Amp so i used only that HP throughout the comparison
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Platinum Amp with stock tubes -  makes any song sound nice. FA-10 even being a solid state have Tube like characteristics so can relate with Liquid platinum to an extent. FA-10 is more aggressive,  better Sub bass , impactful mid bass, faster, more full sounding,  more sound stage. LP is composed, calmer, nice in offensive Highs, especially i liked it for before the bed night time listen  To conclude, FA-10 will give you that grand effect of a capable amp while LP will not floor you on the first listen but one need to listen for some time to make LP a keeper. FA-10 is an upgrade to LP IMO
> 
> ...


Awesome writeup and thank you! This has all been very helpful to me.

I'm coming from the moon 230had, and plan to audition the tt2 and 430had. I ask because of my inexperience in the price range, but is there any other AIO's that you feel like I should know about?


----------



## Lohb

With the likes of LCD-X / Aeon 2C/ Arya is FA-10 just complete overkill with very little dial on the volume pot with easier to drive planars ?


----------



## cangle

I received an email from Vitaliy this afternoon saying that my FA-12 has shipped. It's been 3 weeks since I ordered it on backorder. Hopefully the FA-12 will be shipping soon for the others who ordered around the same time I did.


----------



## Slim1970

Lohb said:


> With the likes of LCD-X / Aeon 2C/ Arya is FA-10 just complete overkill with very little dial on the volume pot with easier to drive planars ?


You can use the low gain setting. With it I find myself around noon to 1o’clock on the volume dial with most high sensitivity headphones. Plus, the headphones you’ve listed love power, specs are just half the story. You’ll find yourself turning up the volume more than normal with those headphones anyway. If you have a DAC with variable output, like the Hugo 2 or something similar, you can just lower the volume on it to get more play on the volume dial of the FA-10. This works well with my LCD-4z’s, Ether 2’s, Quad Era-1’s and a few others headphones I have on hand. I find medium gain to be the sweet spot for me on my FA-10.


----------



## gancanjam (Jan 27, 2021)

oniel459 said:


> Awesome writeup and thank you! This has all been very helpful to me.
> 
> I'm coming from the moon 230had, and plan to audition the tt2 and 430had. I ask because of my inexperience in the price range, but is there any other AIO's that you feel like I should know about?



Simaudio 430had is a noticeable step up from 230 had. As mentioned, I found TT2 AIO to be bit thin, analytical, less bass, unwanted micro details, bright to my liking but as a DAC, TT2 is a very capable DAC. 430HAD AIO has mixed reviews as it can be tad slower with some HPs but I personally found this to be good for most HPs like Utopia, Abyss but not for HE1000, only negative thing I have about this High end powerful AIO like 430 HAD is you tend to crank up a lot of volume without even noticing the loudness and then can find it bit fatiguing to the ears post listening session  , with practice we can learn when to stop the volume dial, in 230 HAD this behavior is less pronounced as loudness can be perceived as soon you crank up the volume levels in 230 compared to 430

My humble advice is not to get restricted to AIOs, AIO may look like a convenient option without a need for extra space/cables and we tend to think that DAC/Amp will have that synergy coming from the same brand, often it is not the case as mixing and matching will be a better proposition due to very less good AIO options

With that said, on AIO alternates following are some I can share,

Chord Dave AIO - There are quite a few say Dave is the big brother of TT2 but I found that's not the case, Dave is a different animal.  This $10K + equipment is deaddddd.. neutral with no emphasis on any region, all Frequencies are present with no trade offs, sound as natural and detailed it can be,  while TT2 is analytical Dave is coherent and bit musical. The amp section is not very powerful though many HPs can be handled with this. If one have High end speakers and electronics then Dave can be a great addition but just for HPs, while it is sounds true life like, I think it is bit less on "excitement" factor and I am into EDM/Pop than classical so personally I was not that inclined.

Chord Hugo2 AIO - Sound signature is similar to TT2, it was good with IEMs as AIO than with HPs,  while it did a decent job to drive many easier to drive HPs. I personally would not use this as AIO for full sized HPs

DCS Bartok AIO - This is a $16K High end rig, I found this and Simaudio 430HAD to have similar Neutral , transparent vibe with great dynamics, details and oomph. With Utopia, i rate both these as same so I was not able to justify the price of Bartok being 3 times than 430 but with HE1000, Bartok sounded heavenly compared to 430 HAD

FCN -10 ( Flux FA -10 with in build DAC) AIO - This is a Flux labs thread so have to talk about this.  FCN-10 is pretty good as we can see in this thread but DAC is weaker in this combo so better idea is to pair FA-10 with RME or Hugo2 or Qutest.

RME - ADI2  AIO and Burson Audio Conductor 3 series  AIO are reasonably priced, solid DAC and decent amps to be considered in $1500 segment. BAC3 has more powerful amp than RME but RME DAC is more versatile to pair with lot of amps.


----------



## oniel459 (Jan 29, 2021)

gancanjam said:


> Simaudio 430had is a noticeable step up from 230 had. As mentioned, I found TT2 AIO to be bit thin, analytical, less bass, unwanted micro details, bright to my liking but as a DAC, TT2 is a very capable DAC. 430HAD AIO has mixed reviews as it can be tad slower with some HPs but I personally found this to be good for most HPs like Utopia, Abyss but not for HE1000, only negative thing I have about this High end powerful AIO like 430 HAD is you tend to crank up a lot of volume without even noticing the loudness and then can find it bit fatiguing to the ears post listening session  , with practice we can learn when to stop the volume dial, in 230 HAD this behavior is less pronounced as loudness can be perceived as soon you crank up the volume levels in 230 compared to 430
> 
> My humble advice is not to get restricted to AIOs, AIO may look like a convenient option without a need for extra space/cables and we tend to think that DAC/Amp will have that synergy coming from the same brand, often it is not the case as mixing and matching will be a better proposition due to very less good AIO options
> 
> ...


Very very helpful stuff thank you! Sim audio may take a little bit to get the 430 here due to COVID so I got time to look into all these.

I especially am considering the 430 because it seems people keep theirs around long after just for the amplifier, and use DACs later with it.


----------



## gancanjam

oniel459 said:


> Very very helpful stuff thank you! Sim audio may take a little bit to get the 430 here due to COVID so I got time to look into all these.
> 
> I especially am considering the 430 because it seems people keep theirs around long after just for the amplifier, and use DACs later with it.



I have 430 HAD with DAC, the stand alone DAC need to be bought then that is $3000 and they sell it only for $800 with the amp. When you buy an used Simaudio 430 HAD, the difference between with DAC and without DAC is probably like $300 so it is very much worth to buy it with the in built DAC given a choice ! Many say the in build DAC chip is older and every other DAC with newer chip beats it, I beg to differ as I found the DAC to be very detailed/transparent  with good dynamics and have zero complaints using it. As always, please listen to anything before purchasing as synergy with HPs is important, 430 works with most HP except HE1000.    Some things to know, for people with Tube background may find the treble bit hot if listening with volume cranked up and since it is transparent it does not hold back treble but still is smooth and detailed, it handles Sub bass well so sometimes it may sound bit slow as it has to go through the full Bass attack/decay. Coming from 230 HAD background though, 430 is going to be of liking


----------



## oniel459

gancanjam said:


> I have 430 HAD with DAC, the stand alone DAC need to be bought then that is $3000 and they sell it only for $800 with the amp. When you buy an used Simaudio 430 HAD, the difference between with DAC and without DAC is probably like $300 so it is very much worth to buy it with the in built DAC given a choice ! Many say the in build DAC chip is older and every other DAC with newer chip beats it, I beg to differ as I found the DAC to be very detailed/transparent  with good dynamics and have zero complaints using it. As always, please listen to anything before purchasing as synergy with HPs is important, 430 works with most HP except HE1000.    Some things to know, for people with Tube background may find the treble bit hot if listening with volume cranked up and since it is transparent it does not hold back treble but still is smooth and detailed, it handles Sub bass well so sometimes it may sound bit slow as it has to go through the full Bass attack/decay. Coming from 230 HAD background though, 430 is going to be of liking


Glad to hear somebody else feels this way because I thought I was alone in it.

side note, just auditioned the McIntosh mha150, worth a listen if you get a chance. Especially if the sim audio approach is a preference. At least from how I felt, it etched out the 230, as it should have.


----------



## Lohb

Think I'd take a Flux amp and squeeze in another TOTL can as well, for the price of a McIntosh MHA150...


----------



## realmassy

Probably a long shot, has anyone heard the FA10 or the FA12 with the HEDDphones? There’s a FA12 for sale on eBay, in UK, and I’m quite tempted but have no idea about the pairing.
Thanks


----------



## oniel459

Lohb said:


> Think I'd take a Flux amp and squeeze in another TOTL can as well, for the price of a McIntosh MHA150...


Oh sure! As I’ve said earlier my experience in this price range is still limited, so I’m just having fun.

I would still had bought my moon 230had over the mha150 simply because the McIntosh , in my opinion, is just barely better. So considering one is $5k and the other is $1.5k..


----------



## spacelion2077

Im pretty late to this. Which amp has more power output.   FA-10, FA-10 Pro, FA-12, FCN-10 & FA-12s ?


----------



## cangle

spacelion2077 said:


> Im pretty late to this. Which amp has more power output.   FA-10, FA-10 Pro, FA-12, FCN-10 & FA-12s ?


All the -10 products do 16W. The FA-12 does 2.6W and the FA-12S does 2W


----------



## spacelion2077

cangle said:


> All the -10 products do 16W. The FA-12 does 2.6W and the FA-12S does 2W


What's the differences among them? What's usually the best one to get? I'm thinking about getting one to drive 1266 TC


----------



## gancanjam

spacelion2077 said:


> What's the differences among them? What's usually the best one to get? I'm thinking about getting one to drive 1266 TC



Simple answer for this   get the most powerful one for 1266 TC which will be FA-10 , other 2W amps may not cut it for the beast !


----------



## gancanjam (Jan 31, 2021)

To add, 1266 TC can get hot on the treble region and FA-10 does a wonderful job to keep it on check but still you will get the treble which is needed without any roll off. FA-10 also supports its mid bass well,  1266 TC may not have focus on the mids but FA-10 provides that air cover to provide mids to the pairing. I personally liked FA-10 pairing with 1266

1266 is true TOTL HP, yeah one may get marginally more mileage buying an amp into $5K - $15K zone such as WA33, Bakoon, Xi Audio or Flux labs apex Volot amp which is a future release, but FA-10 is a no brainer purchase especially for 1266 due to the power from where the LODR law will kick in and in fact there was an FS ad for the same yesterday if anyone is interested


----------



## Lolito

Does any of these amps have XLR pre-amped outputs for connecting active speaker monitors via balanced XLR? thanks!!!


----------



## cangle

Lolito said:


> Does any of these amps have XLR pre-amped outputs for connecting active speaker monitors via balanced XLR? thanks!!!


Currently I don't believe so. Looking through their website most units have xlr and rca inputs but no pre outs. I've heard though that their upcoming top of the line product, the Volot, will have pre outs however I'm not sure if they will be balanced or not.


----------



## cangle (Feb 1, 2021)

It looks like my FA-12 is out for delivery so hopefully I will receive it this afternoon. I also impulsively bought an HD 800 S last week which is on it's way so I will be able to offer impressions with that and my 4z

Edit: The 800 S arrived this morning but I don't think the FA-12 will come today. The tracking info is not clear, it says arriving today but it's still listed as being in Ukraine plus there's a snow storm impacting deliveries in MA. I'll just post back once it arrives


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

oniel459 said:


> Very very helpful stuff thank you! Sim audio may take a little bit to get the 430 here due to COVID so I got time to look into all these.
> 
> I especially am considering the 430 because it seems people keep theirs around long after just for the amplifier, and use DACs later with it.



Consider Vioelectric V590 also on your list as AIO. It has a thread in here.


----------



## Terriero

cangle said:


> It looks like my FA-12 is out for delivery so hopefully I will receive it this afternoon. I also impulsively bought an HD 800 S last week which is on it's way so I will be able to offer impressions with that and my 4z
> 
> Edit: The 800 S arrived this morning but I don't think the FA-12 will come today. The tracking info is not clear, it says arriving today but it's still listed as being in Ukraine plus there's a snow storm impacting deliveries in MA. I'll just post back once it arrives


I'm really interested in your combo FA-12 and HD800-S. A few people here have used the HD800-S with the FA-10 but I can't remember if someone have used with the FA-12. Which DAC (or DACs) will you use?


----------



## Otter7

cangle said:


> It looks like my FA-12 is out for delivery so hopefully I will receive it this afternoon. I also impulsively bought an HD 800 S last week which is on it's way so I will be able to offer impressions with that and my 4z
> 
> Edit: The 800 S arrived this morning but I don't think the FA-12 will come today. The tracking info is not clear, it says arriving today but it's still listed as being in Ukraine plus there's a snow storm impacting deliveries in MA. I'll just post back once it arrives



I am curious; when did you place your order for the FA-12?  I ordered one at the end of December, and have not received any shipping notice yet.


----------



## cangle

Terriero said:


> I'm really interested in your combo FA-12 and HD800-S. A few people here have used the HD800-S with the FA-10 but I can't remember if someone have used with the FA-12. Which DAC (or DACs) will you use?


I will definitely post impressions of this pairing once the amp is here. I also would like to get an xlr cable to use the 800S balanced or a 4.4 to xlr adapter. Otherwise I will be using the single ended output which in my mind kind of defeats the point of owning the FA-12. My dac is the RME ADI-2 FS. I also have an SMSL SU8, Bifrost Uber Version 1, and some Rotel dac that I may try but I've been happy with the RME for it's flexibility and info that it provides during playback. More info of my chain is in my signature


----------



## cangle

Otter7 said:


> I am curious; when did you place your order for the FA-12?  I ordered one at the end of December, and have not received any shipping notice yet.


Here's the history of my order so far:
I ordered on January 5th.The money went through on the 5th as well and Vitaliy confirmed the order then. Then on the 6th Vitaliy confirmed the swap to the red front panel. Also, I emailed them on the 26th of January asking about the status of my order and he said that it would be shipped the next day. It shipped via UPS on the 27th and I am awaiting it's delivery. I would send an email to info@fluxlab-acoustics.com. They have been very responsive and helpful when I reached out to them.


----------



## Virion

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Consider Vioelectric V590 also on your list as AIO. It has a thread in here.


I'm curious why the flux atlas is not on the list. It looks like an great AIO.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Feb 2, 2021)

As a matter in fact it was on my very shortlist (2nd and 4th post on this thread). It has a very good but not so powerful (2.6w @ 32ohms) headamp section. Too large however for my desktop. Headphonia has a very positive review of it.

Went to a Audiobyte Hydra stack (Soundnews review) instead for its DAC and versatility (fpga based). Adding a dedicated amp later if needed. But so far its been good for my cans. You coould find some comparo in YT fitted against other megabucks DACs.

EDIT: Then there is the Lampizator Amber/Amp DAC I forgot. Again like the Atlas it was too large for my setup.


----------



## Otter7

cangle said:


> Here's the history of my order so far:
> I ordered on January 5th.The money went through on the 5th as well and Vitaliy confirmed the order then. Then on the 6th Vitaliy confirmed the swap to the red front panel. Also, I emailed them on the 26th of January asking about the status of my order and he said that it would be shipped the next day. It shipped via UPS on the 27th and I am awaiting it's delivery. I would send an email to info@fluxlab-acoustics.com. They have been very responsive and helpful when I reached out to them.


I heard back from Vitaliy.  The delay is because I requested the remote control option.  He said it would be shipped by the end of this week.  I understand they are a (very) small company, but they haven't done a good job of managing my expectations.  I do agree that Vitaliy has been very friendly and responsive however.   How long does shipping take?  I am also in MA.


----------



## cangle (Feb 2, 2021)

Otter7 said:


> I heard back from Vitaliy.  The delay is because I requested the remote control option.  He said it would be shipped by the end of this week.  I understand they are a (very) small company, but they haven't done a good job of managing my expectations.  I do agree that Vitaliy has been very friendly and responsive however.   How long does shipping take?  I am also in MA.


Sorry to hear your order has been delayed by the remote. Tracking says it is now arriving on the 4th which is about a week for shipping.


----------



## gancanjam

Otter7 said:


> I heard back from Vitaliy.  The delay is because I requested the remote control option.  He said it would be shipped by the end of this week.  I understand they are a (very) small company, but they haven't done a good job of managing my expectations.  I do agree that Vitaliy has been very friendly and responsive however.   How long does shipping take?  I am also in MA.



The fast DHL shipping usually takes 1 week and regular shipping takes 2-3 weeks, this was the case few months back


----------



## cangle

gancanjam said:


> The fast DHL shipping usually takes 1 week and regular shipping takes 2-3 weeks, this was the case few months back


When I placed my order there was only one shipping option at a rate of $100 so perhaps they've just switched to the fast shipping for all orders


----------



## PhazeCrive

How's the FCN-10 performing with the 1266 TC? I'm looking to get out of the midrange headphone hell and go straight for the TOTL Abyss.

And of course upgrade components down the line.


----------



## constajadis

I am lookin for a full amplifier for give me the 100% sound from my Abyss Diana Phi
I am owner of CONDUCTOR 3X REF but I do not see it the best for mi Diana Phi. Also I am owner of LTA MZ2 OTL .This one is fantastic for my HD800 BUT again n ot the best for my Phi.
I was thinking in Formula S but I do not want spent so money so one member in AByss Thread recomended me tthe FA-10.
I am reading a lot of this thread pages (Not the 86  of course) and I read a very good things about. I would like full balanced like my BURSON but I prefer power and tone for my Phi.
By the way I read also the mod is very nice but sadly I must do it here in Spain because I have just a very bad experience whith two items I received from GB.
For the first time in my life I had paid custom duties and import taxes from England (Brexit did it) .So I must look for more cheaper ways
I have Diana Phi, HD800 and Erzetich Phobos aswell
Thanks for yours opinion. They will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Feb 3, 2021)

A bit expensive maybe, but there is a Headamp GSX Mini on the For Sale section. The seller is in France so no problem with taxes.

Was considering it but will pass.

GSX Mini impression by ABYSS Headphones on YT: They are all praises for its pairing with the Diana Phi. LINK


----------



## constajadis

Thanks Mickey


----------



## Otter7

cangle said:


> Sorry to hear your order has been delayed by the remote. Tracking says it is now arriving on the 4th which is about a week for shipping.


I just heard my FA-12 order shipped today.  I will report back once I have spent some time with it after break-in.


----------



## cangle

Otter7 said:


> I just heard my FA-12 order shipped today


Awesome. Mine was supposed to arrive today but it did not unfortunately. I'm hoping it will be here tomorrow


----------



## cangle

Wow I spoke too soon. It's 8pm here but UPS just delivered my amp. I'll take some pics and upload them soon


----------



## cangle

The red looks really nice, better than some other pictures I've seen. I've connected both the balanced and single ended outputs of the ADI-2 to the FA-12 but will be using it in balanced with my 4z. Also that box in the bottom left corner is my streamer in case you're wondering


----------



## funkur

cangle said:


> The red looks really nice, better than some other pictures I've seen. I've connected both the balanced and single ended outputs of the ADI-2 to the FA-12 but will be using it in balanced with my 4z. Also that box in the bottom left corner is my streamer in case you're wondering



Congrats, the Red does look really nice!  I got my FA-10 pretty early on when it was Ford Model T Black only.  

Why connect both SE and XLR though?  The RME is identical either way.


----------



## cangle

funkur said:


> Congrats, the Red does look really nice!  I got my FA-10 pretty early on when it was Ford Model T Black only.
> 
> Why connect both SE and XLR though?  The RME is identical either way.


Because I can't output to the 1/4" jack on the FA-12 using the balanced connections. I have to use the single ended inputs for 1/4" jack and balanced inputs for xlr jack. Bit of an odd design but I will mostly use this amp balanced anyways however I don't have a balanced cable for the 800s yet which is what prompted me to connect both rca and xlrs.


----------



## Lohb

Lead time on FA-10 down to 2 weeks from 1 month...woo hoo !


----------



## Honeypot

What made you go for the fa-10?


----------



## Lohb (Feb 6, 2021)

Honeypot said:


> What made you go for the fa-10?


It has the headroom for everything up to HE-6.


----------



## Fegefeuer

nice, that's a beautiful red tone.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

cangle said:


> The red looks really nice, better than some other pictures I've seen. I've connected both the balanced and single ended outputs of the ADI-2 to the FA-12 but will be using it in balanced with my 4z. Also that box in the bottom left corner is my streamer in case you're wondering



Congrats!  Very interested in hearing listening impressions regarding how the FA-12 sounds with the Sennheiser HE 800s.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Congrats!  Very interested in hearing listening impressions regarding how the FA-12 sounds with the Sennheiser HD800s.


----------



## cangle (Feb 7, 2021)

I'm enjoying the FA-12 so far. I've mostly used it with the LCD-4z (balanced) and HD800s (single ended) but I've also connected Drop Ether Cx (balanced) and the Drop 6xx (balanced). I have an adapter coming for the 800S 4.4mm cable this week so will be able to see if they sound any better balanced out of this amp.

I've been having a bit of trouble getting impressions together as there's been a bunch of changes in my setup recently. I'm not sure that all of these should make big sonic differences but they are still changes. I've been switching between the 800S and the 4z, two fairly different headphones and it takes a bit to adjust to the sound signature after switching. I switched to a new cable for my 4z, the Norne Silvergarde S3-C with a 4 pin xlr, from the Wywires platinum 1/4" cable. Lastly this is the first time that I've run the 4z off a fully balanced amplifier.

Also to better understand my impressions you should know the amps that I've moved through over the past year. However, my dac, the ADI-2 has been a constant in my setup. I started with the Drop 789 which I settled on after all the hype about it's performance. That amp surprised me with it's transparency but the down side to that was hearing more flaws / issues with the music I was used to. Then I heard about the RebelAmp which is a 1w class A amp also made in Ukraine. I think they're related to Flux Lab Acoustics but I haven't found a clear answer on this. This amp offered similar resolution to the 789 but tamed the treble and offered a bit more bass impact. The build quality of this amp is also significantly better than the 789. Now I'm onto the FA-12. My reasoning for purchasing this amp despite already owning the RebelAmp is that I wanted a fully balanced class A amp with more power output. I was intrigued by the FA-10 too but given that most of my headphones are easier to drive ( apart from the 800S which I had not ordered yet ), I settled on the FA-12.

Initial impressions for the FA-12 is that it's similar in tonality to the RebelAmp. Meaning that it has a warm tone, has good bass impact and extension, and is resolving but not to the point of being fatiguing. I have not yet gone back to the RebelAmp and compared but there are a couple of differences that I started to pick up on. It's possible that these differences are placebo / caused by other changes in my set up but I'll list them anyways. I've been noticing more details on the edge of the music (left and right of the image). This might be because I've been paying more attention to the stage after trying out the 800S but either way I feel like I'm hearing more details in the music. Also I think the treble is more present / extended with this amp. When I first tried the 800S (on the RebelAmp) I quickly decided to add a bass shelf via the ADI-2 at 100hz and 5db. This made it easier to switch back to the 4z and also made it more enjoyable listening to electronic, pop, metal, etc. Recently using the 800S with the FA-12 I haven't felt the need to enable the bass shelf. This leads me to believe that the FA-12 has better bass impact, extension, and texture then the RebelAmp but I won't know for sure until I go back and listen to that amp again.

I think the pairing with the 800S is better than with the 4z since the 4z is already an exciting sounding headphone with a strong bass presence. However with this current setup I still will reach for the 4z with electronic music, and other more modern recordings, or when I just want to relax and enjoy the music. The 800S is still an enjoyable headphone but it definitely excels at more acoustic music and the increased treble presence brings out more details that I'm not used to hearing on the 4z. It's not that they're not there on the 4z I think it's just a difference in tonalities that causes certain things to pop out more on one headphone than the other.

Build quality is great on the FA-12. It feels very solid and I like that I can place the ADI-2 on top without blocking the vents on the right side of the amp. The amp does get warm over time but it's not uncomfortably warm like the first generation Schiit Lyr that I used when I got into this hobby. The switches on the left side feel nice but they don't seem to lock into place as well as they did on the RebelAmp. The switches stay in the position I select just fine, they just don't feel as crisp. The volume wheel is a bit easier to turn than the RebelAmp and is a big step up from cheaper pots that you find on amps like the 789. I'm not sure I understand the whole relay implementation but I like hearing the clicks as I go through the range of volume. I've been using this amp in medium gain when running balanced and high gain when running single ended with the 800S. I have plenty of play in the volume knob and generally have been listening around 12 o'clock.

That's all I can think of at the moment but I will come back and post impressions after trying the RebelAmp again. Also if you have any questions, let me know / PM me and I'll try and answer them for you.


----------



## Lohb

Nice, I also have the Ether CX and that one seems tricky to get synergy with, for whatever reason. Be interested in how those 2 react when you have a bit more time with them together.


----------



## teknorob23

Lohb said:


> Nice, I also have the Ether CX and that one seems tricky to get synergy with, for whatever reason. Be interested in how those 2 react when you have a bit more time with them together.



Obvs slightly different tuning but i found the ether c1.1 were my favourite pairing to date with fa12, much better than with 10. The 12 adds a nice bit of body and some top end extension/ sparkle to the c’s


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Roasty said:


> Ahh.. Thanks very much for sharing.
> I did own the gsx mini but sold it. Now having some regrets.. I've never tried the glmk2 nor the gsxmk2. The flux fa-10 does come in at a much better price point, so it has always piqued my interest.



I see that you own a Wells Milo.   Was wondering how you like it?


----------



## Roasty

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> I see that you own a Wells Milo.   Was wondering how you like it?



The Milo Reference is an extremely good pairing with the TC Phi. Fast and detailed but not cold sounding. I'd say a smidgen warm rather than completely neutral. Low end really packs a punch. The top end is leaning to a slight forward sounding presentation, but nonetheless very well-controlled. 

I don't know what @The Piper crammed into that small box, but if it's that good already, I can only imagine what the Headtrip will offer. Milo Ref is definitely the best ss amp I've listened to so far. I definitely prefer it over the gsx mini and Benchmark hpa4. 

However, it has a lot of power and does not match well with sensitive cans eg Utopia/Stellia. Some faint background hum and buzz are audible with sensitive headphones.


----------



## PhazeCrive

How do you get ahold of the milo reference instead of the regular milo?


----------



## Roasty

PhazeCrive said:


> How do you get ahold of the milo reference instead of the regular milo?



Just drop Jeff @ Wells Audio an email. He is very responsive. My unit actually belonged to Bonddam who traded it up for a Headtrip ii amp. I got Jeff to add XLR inputs and change it to 230v for me.


----------



## NickT23

Roasty said:


> Just drop Jeff @ Wells Audio an email. He is very responsive. My unit actually belonged to Bonddam who traded it up for a Headtrip ii amp. I got Jeff to add XLR inputs and change it to 230v for me.


Hello.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Feb 8, 2021)

Roasty said:


> The Milo Reference is an extremely good pairing with the TC Phi. Fast and detailed but not cold sounding. I'd say a smidgen warm rather than completely neutral. Low end really packs a punch. The top end is leaning to a slight forward sounding presentation, but nonetheless very well-controlled.
> 
> I don't know what @The Piper crammed into that small box, but if it's that good already, I can only imagine what the Headtrip will offer. Milo Ref is definitely the best ss amp I've listened to so far. I definitely prefer it over the gsx mini and Benchmark hpa4.
> 
> However, it has a lot of power and does not match well with sensitive cans eg Utopia/Stellia. Some faint background hum and buzz are audible with sensitive headphones.




Thanks for the helpful reply.   It would be interesting to hear comparisons between the Wells Milo and
Flux FA10, given that they put out similar amounts of power into lower impedances.  I wonder if
anyone on Head-Fi has heard both amp's?


----------



## amele

how is sound zmf verite on flux fa-10 can someone comform the synergy


----------



## maszynista1987

The A-10 is a great amplifier, at its price - a diamond. I liked the combination, although I prefer the tube with verite.
Large soundstage and a nice presentation.


----------



## amele

maszynista1987 said:


> The A-10 is a great amplifier, at its price - a diamond. I liked the combination, although I prefer the tube with verite.
> Large soundstage and a nice presentation.


tnx , which tube amp do you prefer?


----------



## gikigill

If anyone plans to sell their FA-10, I,ll take it.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Does the Flux FA-12s sound like the FA-10?  I was thinking that if they have a similar house sound
and one does not need the extra power of the FA10, that the FA-12s would be an even better value at $500.
Especially with the added preamp out section of the FA-12s.


----------



## teknorob23

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Does the Flux FA-12s sound like the FA-10?  I was thinking that if they have a similar house sound
> and one does not need the extra power of the FA10, that the FA-12s would be an even better value at $500.
> Especially with the added preamp out section of the FA-12s.


 
From my conversations with Vitaly at fla it sounds like the Fa12s performs like the fa12 if you are listening to it with and unbalanced source using the single
Ended out, but they share the same
Warm, sweet well extended signature


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

teknorob23 said:


> From my conversations with Vitaly at fla it sounds like the Fa12s performs like the fa12 if you are listening to it with and unbalanced source using the single
> Ended out, but they share the same
> Warm, sweet well extended signature



Aside from more power, is there much of a difference soundwise between the FA10 and FA12?


----------



## teknorob23

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Aside from more power, is there much of a difference soundwise between the FA10 and FA12?



I have compared the two amps about half way back through this thread, but yes while they are sonically cut from the same cloth they do also have their own distinct signatures. They are both north of neutral, with the 12 being the warmer of the two. Both are still fairly linear and even handed across the frequency range. The 12 has a richer fuller sound with better extension at top and bottom, slightly more sparkle in the treble. The 10 has a slightly more organic natural cleaner sound, shorter decay in the bass but still very well extended as the treble but perhaps a little more rolled off but all sounds right as part of its overall sound.  There are many more FA10 on owners on here with far greater experience than me who can and have offered far more insightful and indepth impressions of the 10. 

Its also worth noting, all of my listening has been with relatively easy to drive dynamic HPs, Focal Stellia, Senn HD820, beyer DT1770pro and slightly harder 600ohm Beyer t1.2s. The only planners ive used are the Mr Speakers Ether C 1.1, which are not the hardest to drive either. For the record these pair the best out of all ive tried with the Fa12 whereas i prefer the Stellia's with Fa10.

Hope that helps a bit but as i say you should be able to find more detailed impressions and comparison if you go back through the thread


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

teknorob23 said:


> I have compared the two amps about half way back through this thread, but yes while they are sonically cut from the same cloth they do also have their own distinct signatures. They are both north of neutral, with the 12 being the warmer of the two. Both are still fairly linear and even handed across the frequency range. The 12 has a richer fuller sound with better extension at top and bottom, slightly more sparkle in the treble. The 10 has a slightly more organic natural cleaner sound, shorter decay in the bass but still very well extended as the treble but perhaps a little more rolled off but all sounds right as part of its overall sound.  There are many more FA10 on owners on here with far greater experience than me who can and have offered far more insightful and indepth impressions of the 10.
> 
> Its also worth noting, all of my listening has been with relatively easy to drive dynamic HPs, Focal Stellia, Senn HD820, beyer DT1770pro and slightly harder 600ohm Beyer t1.2s. The only planners ive used are the Mr Speakers Ether C 1.1, which are not the hardest to drive either. For the record these pair the best out of all ive tried with the Fa12 whereas i prefer the Stellia's with Fa10.
> 
> Hope that helps a bit but as i say you should be able to find more detailed impressions and comparison if you go back through the thread



Your insights are very helpful!  Thanks so much.  This is an exciting company with quality products offered
at a very reasonable price.   I think the FA-12S might be ideal for driving my inexpensive planar magnetics.
Especially since from what I gather, all the Flux headphone amp's have a house sound that is very
appealing.

Thanks again for your insights!  😊


----------



## Otter7

Questions for FA-12 owners (might also apply to the FA-10):
How long did it take for your amp to burn in once you received it?
Do you leave it on all of the time?
If you don't leave it on, how long does it need to warm up before reaching normal performance?


----------



## cangle (Feb 12, 2021)

> How long did it take for your amp to burn in once you received it?


Not sure. Flux labs did not say anything about a burn in period but I believe I've read it to be close to 200 hours according to @teknorob23



> Do you leave it on all of the time?


I turn it on a bit before I plan on using it then turn it off once I'm done listening to music



> If you don't leave it on, how long does it need to warm up before reaching normal performance?


It seems to take about 2 hours to reach a constant temperature


----------



## Dionysus

Ordered the Flux FA-12, looking forward to complimenting my setup. Vatiliy has been extremely good and communicating and answering questions even though time zone are so vastly different.


----------



## lalawilson168

Dionysus said:


> Ordered the Flux FA-12, looking forward to complimenting my setup. Vatiliy has been extremely good and communicating and answering questions even though time zone are so vastly different.



Nice! May I ask what should of DAC and headphones u are gonna use with the FA 12?


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

Dionysus said:


> Ordered the Flux FA-12, looking forward to complimenting my setup. Vatiliy has been extremely good and communicating and answering questions even though time zone are so vastly different.



Congrats, hope you enjoy it!  Please post impressions when you can. 😊


----------



## Dionysus

HD800s, HD660s currently using the Matrix Mini i Pro 3 streaming Roon and Tidal. I love the sound of the Matrix Dac and just wanted a class A amp that was complimentary and the Flux product seems to fill that criteria.


----------



## rde01

The i3 has aclass A amp too. What where you missing with the mentioned headphones? (just curious cause i'm interested in the i3 pro too.
When you mention Tidal. Is tbat thru airplay streaming i thought the i3 didn't have TIdal connect yet?


----------



## Dionysus

Plays through Roon, just login through my existing Tidal account and Roon ties thing in nicely.


----------



## Lohb

Did anyone step up from the current generation of THX amps (887/888 etc) to Fa-10 ?
Did you feel there were marginal or big differences with your cans ?


----------



## Dionysus (Feb 18, 2021)

I will be, I’ve owned the THX789 and the SMP 888. However i have not received my Flux amp yet.
The biggest take away from owning any of the THX variants are, they are excellent clean amps but way too hyper analytical and it becomes fatiguing to listen for long periods of time. I’ll leave impressions once I get time form an opinion. Hope that helps.


----------



## cangle

Lohb said:


> Did anyone step up from the current generation of THX amps (887/888 etc) to Fa-10 ?
> Did you feel there were marginal or big differences with your cans ?


I went from the 789 to the RebelAmp, then the RebelAmp to the FA-12. The 12 is similar in tonality to the RebelAmp so I can contrast the FA-12 with the 789. Even though this is not the FA-10 maybe this will be helpful for you. 

One of the reasons I was looking for a different amp is that I was picking up on a lot of flaws in certain recordings and I hoped that moving to something else ( a class A amp ) would make things sound smoother and not so analytical sounding. This ended up being true and the big difference I noticed when moving to the RebelAmp/FA-12 is that the sound became smoother and not so harsh especially in the upper frequencies. Also the sound might have been a bit slower but there was more bass quantity and I felt like I was enjoying the overall tonality of the class A amp compared to the sometimes overly revealing nature of the 789. The build quality on both the RebelAmp and FA-12 is both significantly better than the 789 so that's an advantage too.


----------



## Honeypot

cangle said:


> I went from the 789 to the RebelAmp, then the RebelAmp to the FA-12. The 12 is similar in tonality to the RebelAmp so I can contrast the FA-12 with the 789. Even though this is not the FA-10 maybe this will be helpful for you.
> 
> One of the reasons I was looking for a different amp is that I was picking up on a lot of flaws in certain recordings and I hoped that moving to something else ( a class A amp ) would make things sound smoother and not so analytical sounding. This ended up being true and the big difference I noticed when moving to the RebelAmp/FA-12 is that the sound became smoother and not so harsh especially in the upper frequencies. Also the sound might have been a bit slower but there was more bass quantity and I felt like I was enjoying the overall tonality of the class A amp compared to the sometimes overly revealing nature of the 789. The build quality on both the RebelAmp and FA-12 is both significantly better than the 789 so that's an advantage too.


Are you using your rme dac as source?
Any eq?


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> Are you using your rme dac as source?
> Any eq?


Yes with the 789, RebelAmp, and FA-12 I've used the rme as the source. I've used the audeze presets in Roon for the 4z and have played around with a bass shelf with the 800S on the rme bass/treble settings. But for the most part I do not use eq


----------



## Lohb (Feb 19, 2021)

Initial impression on THX887 vs Flux FA-10......10 has a more natural tonality (natural side of neutral = my fav.) vs the strict neutrality of THX....going back to THX, THX does seem to have the slightest nudge on imaging ability ... but under load it seems to emphasize upper mids/lower treble (even though its supposed to be ruler flat) ...that nudge more into the subs quality/quantity difference on FA-10 is apparent...just all that juice sitting there ready on tap for those fast scoops into subterranean bass.



First day testing with LCD-XC mid gain (volume pot around 12 o'clock) ...have to remove warm setting jumpers inside my a-gd r2r DAC to bring the imaging more in line with THX..THX does need the warm setting jumpers on with the A-gd IMO or its just too "scalpal-like" in presentation.


----------



## Ichos

Hello dear friends.

I have posted my review of the Fluxlab Acoustics FCN-10

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/review/25337/

Truly remarkable


----------



## gancanjam (Feb 19, 2021)

Lohb said:


> Did anyone step up from the current generation of THX amps (887/888 etc) to Fa-10 ?
> Did you feel there were marginal or big differences with your cans ?



Monoprice THX is clean sounding, nice sparkly highs , instrument separations, clean Bass/Treble reproduction with instruments like Guitar, Piano, Sax, Violin et.al playing in the middle and everything has it's well defined place in the song, I really like this AIO but still with TOTL HPs like Utopia I think Utopia is few tiers more than Monoprice THX in terms of technicalities.  Compared to FA-10, certainly some Monoprice THX deficiencies can be observed as FA-10 have more Impact,  Bass layering, Bass quality, dynamics et.al. 

Drop THX 789 is one of best purchases for $300 especially for HE1000 which pairs well and one can probably live with it,  I did not found THX 789 to be too fatiguing even though it is bit analytical sounding amp. I would rate FA-10 to be at least one tier more than THX 789 with better clarity, impact, musicality and refinement. As @cangle said, sound signature is also important as FA-10 is a Class A amp sound with best of breed vibes from solid state and Tube, a crowd pleaser signature so even though THX and FA-10 is not apple to apple comparison with different sound signatures, I would conclude by saying FA-10 will be an upgrade


----------



## Lohb

Any clearly noticeable sonic benefit going from DAC-in RCA to XLR ? Does it also cause less volume pot range dial on XLR on FA-10 ?


----------



## teknorob23

Lohb said:


> Any clearly noticeable sonic benefit going from DAC-in RCA to XLR ? Does it also cause less volume pot range dial on XLR on FA-10 ?



Either way makes no difference the fa10’s not balanced the xlrs are just there for convenience


----------



## Otter7

teknorob23 said:


> ....
> Its also worth noting, all of my listening has been with relatively easy to drive dynamic HPs, Focal Stellia, Senn HD820, beyer DT1770pro and slightly harder 600ohm Beyer t1.2s. The only planners ive used are the Mr Speakers Ether C 1.1, which are not the hardest to drive either. For the record these pair the best out of all ive tried with the Fa12 whereas i prefer the Stellia's with Fa10.


I wish I  had seen this before my FA-12 shipped.  I was planning to use it with the Stellia.   I agree the FA-12 tonal balance does not complement the Stellia well.

After listening to the FA-12 for a while, I decided to go back to my Ragnarok 1 rather than get the FA-10.  The Raggy has greater detail and better bass definition than the FA-12.  Based on your previous comments the FA-10 might have helped with the bass; However the Raggy has very well defined and deep bottom.  I did end up adjusting the tonal balance by switching interconnects.  I switched from Belden 1800F to Mogami 3080.  This improved the tonal balance and definition.  Both were big improvements.  I also tried Mogami 2534 and found that to be not as pleasing as the 3080 but still a big improvement over the Belden.


----------



## Lohb

Would this fuse below be 'correct' for FA-10 to bring more improvements to SQ ?
Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme Fuses 5 x 20mm T (Slow Blow)​


----------



## manishex

Lohb said:


> Would this fuse below be 'correct' for FA-10 to bring more improvements to SQ ?
> Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme Fuses 5 x 20mm T (Slow Blow)​


I'd recommend the hifi tuning supreme 3 silver, 5x20mm slow blow. You can use 2 or 2.5a. The stock glass fuses sound a bit hollow and less dynamic in comparison. 
I tried synergistic Research's black fuse for my mains plugs and they sound really open and airy but are also double the price.


----------



## Lohb

manishex said:


> I'd recommend the hifi tuning supreme 3 silver, 5x20mm slow blow. You can use 2 or 2.5a. The stock glass fuses sound a bit hollow and less dynamic in comparison.
> I tried synergistic Research's black fuse for my mains plugs and they sound really open and airy but are also double the price.


Thanks, did you test below one by any chance ?
AMR AUDIO GRADE GOLD PLATED FUSE ​


----------



## manishex

Lohb said:


> Thanks, did you test below one by any chance ?
> AMR AUDIO GRADE GOLD PLATED FUSE ​


Yes I've tried it, it's a bit denser sounded and not as refined on the top which is bad match with the fa-10. Tbh the glass fuse inside has more soundstage and isn't bad. There's two types of the stock fuse though, one with straight wire and one with coiled. The coiled one is inferior.


----------



## Slim1970

Otter7 said:


> I wish I  had seen this before my FA-12 shipped.  I was planning to use it with the Stellia.   I agree the FA-12 tonal balance does not complement the Stellia well.
> 
> After listening to the FA-12 for a while, I decided to go back to my Ragnarok 1 rather than get the FA-10.  The Raggy has greater detail and better bass definition than the FA-12.  Based on your previous comments the FA-10 might have helped with the bass; However the Raggy has very well defined and deep bottom.  I did end up adjusting the tonal balance by switching interconnects.  I switched from Belden 1800F to Mogami 3080.  This improved the tonal balance and definition.  Both were big improvements.  I also tried Mogami 2534 and found that to be not as pleasing as the 3080 but still a big improvement over the Belden.


Yeah, the FA-10 has more of a neutral tuning that plays well with warmer sounding headphones. In fact, it plays well with a wider variety of headphones in general. You may not need all of the FA-10’s power with the Stellia’s, but having that extra headroom on tap comes in handy. Another thing I’ve noticed is going from low to medium gain gives you a nice bump in dynamics, clarity and resolve. It’s now my preferred setting on my FA-10.


----------



## Slim1970

Lohb said:


> Would this fuse below be 'correct' for FA-10 to bring more improvements to SQ ?
> Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme Fuses 5 x 20mm T (Slow Blow)​


I use a 2A Hifi Tuning Supreme small fast blow fuse found here:

https://www.musicdirect.com/fuses/hifi-tuning-fuses-supreme-small-fast

I and a couple of other members have commented on the improvements it brings to the FA-10. Just search this thread for more feedback.


----------



## brianfromspace

Just got my FA-12 in today. Ordered 2nd wk of Jan.

Will start the search for a nice desktop DAC to acompany it (thinking about a Denafrips Pontus II). If anyone has a tip for a good balanced DAC, I’m all ears.

Also planned a comparison with a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (balanced) as i still think that all in one box is pretty sweet as a desktop (mainly headphone) solution under my monitor.

btw i only have 1 headphone: Hifiman Arya.
btw 2: Very happy with the black knob, that was a suprise.


----------



## Ichos

I have used extensively the Pontus ii with the FA-10 and they match greatly.
I recommend it.


----------



## cangle

brianfromspace said:


> Just got my FA-12 in today. Ordered 2nd wk of Jan.
> 
> Will start the search for a nice desktop DAC to acompany it (thinking about a Denafrips Pontus II). If anyone has a tip for a good balanced DAC, I’m all ears.
> 
> ...


Congrats on your FA-12, it looks great on your desk. I'm interested in your search for a new dac as I'm looking for an upgrade to my ADI-2. Denafrips is a brand I've considered as is Holo Audio. However I'm definitely not set on any dac in particular.


----------



## lalawilson168

brianfromspace said:


> Just got my FA-12 in today. Ordered 2nd wk of Jan.
> 
> Will start the search for a nice desktop DAC to acompany it (thinking about a Denafrips Pontus II). If anyone has a tip for a good balanced DAC, I’m all ears.
> 
> ...



I have been eyeing on a FA-12 for a while now, but I am sort of happy with my diy amp with my verite closed so have held off the upgrade. I got a pair of used Arya (less than a mth old) recently thinking I would like it as I used to own an Ananda and liked that. Somehow I found it a bit bright and almost silbilant. So really want to hear your opinion of the FA 12 on the Aryas.


----------



## brianfromspace

Prob this week i will do a comparison with FA-12 / Brooklyn Bridge / Audio Valve RKV HAA edition. With a very expensive DAC to see which of the headphone amps suits me best and let the amp be the ‘weak’ element. Or will it be the Arya...


----------



## brianfromspace

Ichos said:


> I have used extensively the Pontus ii with the FA-10 and they match greatly.
> I recommend it.


what streamer did you use in combination?


----------



## Ichos

brianfromspace said:


> what streamer did you use in combination?


https://allo.com/sparky/digione-signature-player.html


----------



## Lohb (Feb 22, 2021)

I wonder if anyone has had any headtime with Bryston BHA-1 and how near FA-10 gets to it (on SQ/technicalities, not raw output power) https://bryston.com/amplifiers/bha1/
Think I read FA-10 can come close to some 2k SS amps in multiple areas.


----------



## gancanjam

brianfromspace said:


> Prob this week i will do a comparison with FA-12 / Brooklyn Bridge / Audio Valve RKV HAA edition. With a very expensive DAC to see which of the headphone amps suits me best and let the amp be the ‘weak’ element. Or will it be the Arya...



Looking forward for the Brooklyn bridge comparison


----------



## brianfromspace

gancanjam said:


> Looking forward for the Brooklyn bridge comparison


Me too, everyone votes against it. ‘Too dry’ ‘not exciting’


----------



## cfranchi

Has anyone compared FCN-10 Dac vs Mojo ?
I have FA-10 + Chord Mojo but want to have a all in one solution.


----------



## Ichos

I can provide some information but not a direct comparison as it's been a long time since I heard the Mojo.
The Mojo for me was a nice warmish sounding portable dac , truth is  I never got excited and didn't like it in my 2 channel system.
The FCN-10 dac portion is a full fledged standalone DAC with a great performance compared with units up to 1K.
For example I prefer it to the Musical fidelity mx dac.
The Mojo can't even compare in dynamics , soundstage , clarity and slam.
I would pick the FCN-10 any time.


----------



## cfranchi

Ichos said:


> I can provide some information but not a direct comparison as it's been a long time since I heard the Mojo.
> The Mojo for me was a nice warmish sounding portable dac , truth is  I never got excited and didn't like it in my 2 channel system.
> The FCN-10 dac portion is a full fledged standalone DAC with a great performance compared with units up to 1K.
> For example I prefer it to the Musical fidelity mx dac.
> ...



Very good, very good...
You mostly sold me to buy FCN-10, thank you!


----------



## Honeypot (Feb 23, 2021)

Hello guys.
My fa-12 just arrived.
Today won't have any time to listen until late night. so far I can only tell it does work well. Here's some pics


----------



## Dionysus

looking forward to some impressions, still waiting on mine to arrive.


----------



## Lohb

FA-10 has got such excellent PRaT...that Start/Stop ability just great. 
Luckily I can dial on the DAC voltage output and warmth/neutral jumper inside and then the 3 gain switches on FA-10 just to get the best spot.
Only minor grumble thing I'd say about FA-10 - is the volume pot dial could be wider, but that all depends on the imp/sens of the cans I know.
Just when you get to 12-o'clock that dialibility range heads south fast. Between 12-12.30pm is where it's at on most of my cans.

Got my 'magic sauce' upgrade fuse on the way...up at midnight on Sunday looking at cryo-d fuses....this hobby !


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> Hello guys.
> My fa-12 just arrived.
> Today won't have any time to listen until late night. so far I can only tell it does work well. Here's some pics


Congrats, nice to see another red FA-12 owner on here. I see that your volume knob is black whereas mine is silver. Is that an option you discussed with Vitaliy or is that just how it came?


----------



## Honeypot

cangle said:


> Congrats, nice to see another red FA-12 owner on here. I see that your volume knob is black whereas mine is silver. Is that an option you discussed with Vitaliy or is that just how it came?


The volume pot was a total surprise to me. But I love it. 
I was offered a red plate on first talk with Vitaliy. We never talked about volume pot.


----------



## Honeypot

Lohb said:


> FA-10 has got such excellent PRaT...that Start/Stop ability just great.
> Luckily I can dial on the DAC voltage output and warmth/neutral jumper inside and then the 3 gain switches on FA-10 just to get the best spot.
> Only minor grumble thing I'd say about FA-10 - is the volume pot dial could be wider, but that all depends on the imp/sens of the cans I know.
> Just when you get to 12-o'clock that dialibility range heads south fast. Between 12-12.30pm is where it's at on most of my cans.
> ...


What is that about the fuse? O.o


----------



## Lohb

Honeypot said:


> What is that about the fuse? O.o


It improves the technicalities of the amp based on the internal amp fuse materials being the weakest link in the entire system.


----------



## Honeypot (Feb 24, 2021)

Dionysus said:


> looking forward to some impressions, still waiting on mine to arrive.


Well well well..so far, i have got only a couple hours with the amp. 
Source is dx7-pro feeding the amp through xlr outputs. Headphones audeze lcd-x.

At first minutes of listening, i felt the amp was some kind of a relaxed version of the dx7-pro. The highs are a bit soften, however you don't miss a detail.
Mids are a bit more prominent, voices were supreme. Bass extends well and have a big punch.
After about 20min listening... Just wow 😳
I suddenly stood up, and started dancing.
I don't remember any similar experience with recorded music... Anywhere.. (take in mind my experience it's short on hifi).
The more the amp warmed up, the better i could feel the music. 
I consider this amp very engaging, not short in soundstage, in fact instrument separation is way beyond the dx7-pro, and the most important i felt a depth gain too. Almost the same feeling the tube feliks echo is giving me. Still very different from a tube amp. Let's say it has the 3d a tube provides.
Edit: I forgot to mention the resolution capabilities of this amp is amazing.

I am no audiophile and i don't have this rich vocabulary to describe all it went through my head.

Overall totally enjoyable experience.

When I spend some more time with it and i can put a proper description together i will post.

Btw, I believe in bias, so be careful with words.


Cheers everyone


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> Well well well..so far, i have got only a couple hours with the amp.
> Source is dx7-pro feeding the amp through xlr outputs. Headphones audeze lcd-x.
> 
> At first minutes of listening, i felt the amp was some kind of a relaxed version of the dx7-pro. The highs are a bit soften, however you don't miss a detail.
> ...


Have to agree with the dancing part. I've been tapping my toes and bobbing my head quite a bit with this amp. I've been exploring drum 'n' bass and the album document one by document one (it's on tidal) is a lot of fun specifically the first two tracks.


----------



## manishex (Feb 24, 2021)

Honeypot said:


> Well well well..so far, i have got only a couple hours with the amp.
> Source is dx7-pro feeding the amp through xlr outputs. Headphones audeze lcd-x.
> 
> At first minutes of listening, i felt the amp was some kind of a relaxed version of the dx7-pro. The highs are a bit soften, however you don't miss a detail.
> ...


Yep, this is what the amp is about, making your music enjoyable. Don't think it's the best measurement wise But it has all the detail yet sounds so smooth, it will only get better with time (break in) and needs 30 min warmup to sound its best. The 3d imaging shocked me as if I was hearing more depth. 

This is what amp manufacturers should be looking towards because at the end of the day we want to enjoy music, the hobby is about listening.


----------



## buffalomatt

Lohb said:


> It improves the technicalities of the amp based on the internal amp fuse materials being the weakest link in the entire system.


Is the fuse easily swapped in and out or is it soldered? Sorry if I missed it in the thread, it is there a summary of the mods and how to do them for this amp?


----------



## manishex

buffalomatt said:


> Is the fuse easily swapped in and out or is it soldered? Sorry if I missed it in the thread, it is there a summary of the mods and how to do them for this amp?


You just push it out, quick swap in


----------



## Honeypot (Feb 24, 2021)

Manishex, i see you got lcd4. I haven't tried them, but based on how much i like lcd-x, i tend to believe audeze has me. Have you tried lcdx? If so, could you describe a little bit differences?

Cangle, you ve got lcd4z and same fa-12. Could I ask you the same? And also pairing with fa-12?

I don't want to kidnap the thread, so feel free to pm if you think it is better. Or here, maybe someone else in my position wants to know.

Thanks 😊


----------



## manishex

Honeypot said:


> Manishex, i see you got lcd4. I haven't tried them, but based on how much i like lcd-x, i tend to believe audeze has me. Have you tried lcdx? If so, could you describe a little bit differences?
> 
> Cangle, you ve got lcd4z and same fa-12. Could I ask you the same? And also pairing with fa-12?
> 
> ...


I haven't heard the lcd-x in years, it was punchy and had this monitor type sound without being hard to drive. In the end I picked the lcd-3&4 which was more mellow sounding, but has this natural euphoric sound but most of the lcd line sound quite similar. I've read many complain about the wonky FR of the x.

I tried the fa-12 on the LCD4 and it sounded great but the extra power from the fa-10 made the sound expand from sounding in my head to sounding out of head which was revolutionary - the speaker amp experience (hard to drive planars) ?

However, I prefer the rich sound of the fa-12 to the organic fa-10 probably since the lcd-4 is already laid back so I'm waiting for the Volot which sounds like the best of both world, power + richness. I've tried many amps and most of them sound thin/clinical which the fa-10 isn't.

Spoke to flux who said the volot will be out in a few weeks and priced at $2550+VAT + shipping which is more than 3x of the fa-10 so I'm happy to accept offers on my fa-10 so I can fund the upgrade!


----------



## Lohb (Feb 24, 2021)

buffalomatt said:


> Is the fuse easily swapped in and out or is it soldered? Sorry if I missed it in the thread, it is there a summary of the mods and how to do them for this amp?


Same style as ones inside power plugs....just pop them out.
I'm going to maybe dive inside tonight and try my one after some strong brain burn-in on a track, then try it again after substituting in the new fuse.

More info below further back in the thread...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...sions-discussion.930883/page-60#post-15934228


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> Cangle, you ve got lcd4z and same fa-12. Could I ask you the same? And also pairing with fa-12?


I haven't heard the lcd-x, the 4z is the only Audeze headphone I've heard. I've used the 4z with the 789, RebelAmp, and FA-12. I could see someone saying that you should use a more revealing amp like a90 or hpa4 but I enjoy the fun sound of the FA-12 even though the 4z is somewhat of a dark headphone. I do think the FA-12 has more extended treble compared to the RebelAmp but even with more of a treble presence it doesn't sound fatiguing like the 4z did on the the 789. Recently I've been using the Audeze preset eq in Roon for the 4z and that seems to give a bit more impact to the bass and maybe a increase to the mids but the difference is not huge. So yeah I think the pairing is nice and would definitely recommend you give the 4 or 4z a listen if you get the chance.


----------



## Honeypot

cangle said:


> I haven't heard the lcd-x, the 4z is the only Audeze headphone I've heard. I've used the 4z with the 789, RebelAmp, and FA-12. I could see someone saying that you should use a more revealing amp like a90 or hpa4 but I enjoy the fun sound of the FA-12 even though the 4z is somewhat of a dark headphone. I do think the FA-12 has more extended treble compared to the RebelAmp but even with more of a treble presence it doesn't sound fatiguing like the 4z did on the the 789. Recently I've been using the Audeze preset eq in Roon for the 4z and that seems to give a bit more impact to the bass and maybe a increase to the mids but the difference is not huge. So yeah I think the pairing is nice and would definitely recommend you give the 4 or 4z a listen if you get the chance.


Have you tried the reveal plugin by audeze?
I tried roon for the lcdx, and didn't like it.
Edit: thx by the way


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> Have you tried the reveal plugin by audeze?
> I tried roon for the lcdx, and didn't like it.
> Edit: thx by the way


I thought that the reveal plug in and the roon presets were the same. I vaguely remember setting up reveal in peace apo and using that to configure the preset it had for the 4z. Either way when I used reveal, at that time it was on the 789, I ended up deciding not to use it and the preferred the stock tuning.

If someone could clarify about reveal vs audeze presets in roon that would be helpful.


----------



## manishex

Looks like fa-12 is more of less the top measuring fully discrete class A headphone amp on asr now.


----------



## Honeypot

cangle said:


> I thought that the reveal plug in and the roon presets were the same. I vaguely remember setting up reveal in peace apo and using that to configure the preset it had for the 4z. Either way when I used reveal, at that time it was on the 789, I ended up deciding not to use it and the preferred the stock tuning.
> 
> If someone could clarify about reveal vs audeze presets in roon that would be helpful.


You mean reveal vs roon right?
I will test today room.




manishex said:


> Looks like fa-12 is more of less the top measuring fully discrete class A headphone amp on asr now.


Really? 😲
I just read it,  they remain commenting measurements. No feelings. That's sad.


----------



## Dionysus

manishex said:


> Looks like fa-12 is more of less the top measuring fully discrete class A headphone amp on asr now.


Yeah just read this, I don't usually go there but, so little information on the FA-12. Excited as I just confirm last night that I should have my FA-12 early next week from Vitaliy.
Thanks for the info.


----------



## Lohb

You'd think it'd be FA10 Pro since FA-12 is slightly U-shaped from what I gather, and Amir at ASR is all about absolute unaltered presentation devices for top ranking stuff (?) . I did not like his high ranking ToppingA90, it had this blunted edge to everthing.


----------



## Honeypot

Lohb said:


> You'd think it'd be FA10 Pro since FA-12 is slightly U-shaped from what I gather, and Amir at ASR is all about absolute unaltered presentation devices for top ranking stuff (?) . I did not like his high ranking ToppingA90, it had this blunted edge to everthing.


It doesn't sound any v shaped to me.
Also I have info by manufacturer and asr fr which show it's not.
I would say the fr is fairly even with slight pronunciation on the low mids. Although this could be the class a warm i feel.


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> You mean reveal vs roon right?


Yes. The name of the eq in Roon for audeze headphones is called audeze presets. It's a filter you apply in the dsp menu. Also feel free to just private message me, don't want to derail this thread.


----------



## Lohb

Honeypot said:


> It doesn't sound any v shaped to me.
> Also I have info by manufacturer and asr fr which show it's not.
> I would say the fr is fairly even with slight pronunciation on the low mids. Although this could be the class a warm i feel.


I said U-shaped...I just read before there was a slight emphasis on bass and treble vs FA-10..commonly regarded as 'U'.


----------



## manishex

Lohb said:


> I said U-shaped...I just read before there was a slight emphasis on bass and treble vs FA-10..commonly regarded as 'U'.


It's more the fact that the fa-10 treble seems a bit rolled off and the fa-12's  emphasis on lower mids giving the warmer rich sound


----------



## Honeypot

Yeah, I did missread it too. Sry about that.
I am with manishex however. I still believe it's not U shapped. Its in fact a bit rolled off in highs, or maybe not rolled but the presentation of highs is particularly delicated. Sry, it's rly hard to put it in words.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Guys, can someone say how good the streaming part is of the F 10 is? Do you need a third party software to use it? The website is not very informative about this.


----------



## Ichos

Rebel Chris said:


> Guys, can someone say how good the streaming part is of the F 10 is? Do you need a third party software to use it? The website is not very informative about this.


Please refer to my review.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/review/25337/


----------



## teknorob23 (Feb 27, 2021)

Lohb said:


> I wonder if anyone has had any headtime with Bryston BHA-1 and how near FA-10 gets to it (on SQ/technicalities, not raw output power) https://bryston.com/amplifiers/bha1/
> Think I read FA-10 can come close to some 2k SS amps in multiple areas.



I have a BHA1 and FA10. The Fa10 is no slouch and on technicalities and resolution it easily holds its own with amps ive heard costing double, but the BHA1 is quite a step beyond. There are some similarities in tonality and dynamics. but the Brytston is cleaner, still slightly warm but closer over all to neutral. Pairing with Stellias, Denafrips Venus2 DAC and Bricasti M5 streamer i can hear a more with the Bryston. That said the stellias sound do fantastic with the FA10 too.


----------



## tholt (Feb 27, 2021)

Anyone have any experience with the Kinki THR-1 vs FA-10? Same price points, and based on reviews, they seem like they have similar sonic signatures as well. Curious what any perceived differences might be.

https://www.kinki-studio.com/thr-1


----------



## Dopaminer (Feb 27, 2021)

tholt said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Kinki THR-1 vs FA-10? Same price points, and the Kinki boasts a ton of power as well. Based on reviews, they seem like they would have similar sonic signatures. Curious what any perceived differences might be
> 
> https://www.kinki-studio.com/thr-1


It has 'tripper headphone jacks' !
I've been looking at that amp, too.
According to this review, it's not a balanced amp:


----------



## tholt (Feb 27, 2021)

Dopaminer said:


> It has 'tripper headphone jacks' !
> I've been looking at that amp, too.
> According to this review, it's not a balanced amp:



Cool, yeah I saw that review. The THR-1 is not balanced, same as the FA-10. He also reviewed the FCN-10 and liked it.


----------



## Lohb (Mar 3, 2021)

Anyone owned the fullsize desktop amps from A-gd vs Flux-Fa10... The 9, 19 ...or DAC/amp combos...R27, R28 etc..very brief impressions ?


----------



## cfranchi

FCN-10 just ordered, should be shipped in 3 weeks, now I have to sell my FA-10 and Chord Mojo


----------



## Ichos

Great move!
The internal dac is very good.


----------



## cfranchi

Ichos said:


> Great move!
> The internal dac is very good.


Thank you, I’m a bit tired with Mojo and all the cables, I expect a more spacious sound and maybe more slam and impact


----------



## Ichos

As for slam and impact you are going to find tones of it!

Just reserve a well ventilated place for it.


----------



## Dionysus

So, I should have my FA-12 this week, I'm very excited to pair this amp with my Matrix Mini I Pro 3 and my HD800s. Ill leave some impressions once I spend sometime brain burning and running it in some.


----------



## buffalomatt

Ichos said:


> Please refer to my review.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/review/25337/


 In your review you say that its possible to swap the SD card for the RPi to install a different os. Have you or anyone else tried to do this? 

I'm interested in installing Ropieee XL to use this as a Roon endpoint and also for its Spotify connect.


----------



## Ichos

buffalomatt said:


> In your review you say that its possible to swap the SD card for the RPi to install a different os. Have you or anyone else tried to do this?
> 
> I'm interested in installing Ropieee XL to use this as a Roon endpoint and also for its Spotify connect.


No I haven't tried but finding the card  is easy.
You have to open the lid and spot the card inside next to the transformer.
Then you can swap it or burn another OS.
I am not very experienced but OS must be suitable for RPi computer.


----------



## RenEh

Klmahnn said:


> I love the look of it! Too few amps let you peer into the circuitry, the other I can think of off the top of my head is funnily enough what brought me to this thread - Flux Lab's IRIY dac/amp.
> 
> I've seen those scams, thanks for pointing them out! On this occasion, Amazon themselves were selling it for 723 euros (not through a 3rd party seller). I didn't pull the trigger as there are some other single-ended options that I now have my eye on that aren't much more, like the SPL Phonitor SE that comes in around 925-ish euros if I remember correctly, and others that are much less.


----------



## RenEh (Mar 4, 2021)

I‘m eyeing the fa12/fa12s. I’ll be paring them with Ananda’s and lcd2c mostly. I just bought the denafrips ares 2, and pairing them with my trusty thx 789 makes the upper mid range of the lcd2c seem too aggressive and fatiguing. The thx 789 also can’t produce the reverb that the ares 2 can provide with my speakers. The thx is fairly 2d as well, and I’d like to address that and the reverb.

Is the fa12 the amp I’m looking for? I like the idea of a richer mid range, but I’d still want good dynamics and enough resolution to complement the ares 2. I’m handy with a soldering iron and could upgrade components in the long term.

Is the fully balanced fa12 worth the extra $250? I’m using these in a electronically noisy office environment. Sorry, one last question, do these go on sale?


----------



## manishex

RenEh said:


> I‘m eyeing the fa12/fa12s. I’ll be paring them with Ananda’s and lcd2c mostly. I just bought the denafrips ares 2, and pairing them with my trusty thx 789 makes the upper mid range of the lcd2c seem too aggressive and fatiguing. The thx 789 also can’t produce the reverb that the ares 2 can provide with my speakers. The thx is fairly 2d as well, and I’d like to address that and the reverb.
> 
> Is the fa12 the amp I’m looking for? I like the idea of a richer mid range, but I’d still want good dynamics and enough resolution to complement the ares 2. I’m handy with a soldering and could upgrade components in the long term.
> 
> Is the fully balanced fa12 worth the extra $250? I’m using these in a electronically noisy office environment. Sorry, one last question, do these go on sale?


Sounds like fa12 is what you want. 
Don't see these go on sale and hardly see them on the second hand market. 
On the fully balanced fa12 you can try both balanced and se and see which you prefer, to me the single was fuller mids and balanced was bigger staging and airer, not sure how power hungry the 2c is but the balanced section is about 3.5x more powerful.


----------



## RenEh

manishex said:


> Sounds like fa12 is what you want.
> Don't see these go on sale and hardly see them on the second hand market.
> On the fully balanced fa12 you can try both balanced and se and see which you prefer, to me the single was fuller mids and balanced was bigger staging and airer, not sure how power hungry the 2c is but the balanced section is about 3.5x more powerful.



Thank you! I don’t really need the power, all my headphones are fairly efficient, but I do like headroom. I guess it would be worth the $250 for me if the balanced has a more 3 dimensional stage. Is that the case?


----------



## manishex

RenEh said:


> Thank you! I don’t really need the power, all my headphones are fairly efficient, but I do like headroom. I guess it would be worth the $250 for me if the balanced has a more 3 dimensional stage. Is that the case?


I think you'll always have the burning sensation to try balanced, with the fa-12 you can try both and come to your own verdict. Worst comes to worst return it and get the fa-12s or trade with someone with an fa-12s.


----------



## RenEh

P


manishex said:


> I think you'll always have the burning sensation to try balanced, with the fa-12 you can try both and come to your own verdict. Worst comes to worst return it and get the fa-12s or trade with someone with an fa-12s.


I think you’re right. It just brings the price really close to a burson soloist 3x on sale. I wish I knew how they compared.


----------



## Honeypot

RenEh said:


> I‘m eyeing the fa12/fa12s. I’ll be paring them with Ananda’s and lcd2c mostly. I just bought the denafrips ares 2, and pairing them with my trusty thx 789 makes the upper mid range of the lcd2c seem too aggressive and fatiguing. The thx 789 also can’t produce the reverb that the ares 2 can provide with my speakers. The thx is fairly 2d as well, and I’d like to address that and the reverb.
> 
> Is the fa12 the amp I’m looking for? I like the idea of a richer mid range, but I’d still want good dynamics and enough resolution to complement the ares 2. I’m handy with a soldering iron and could upgrade components in the long term.
> 
> Is the fully balanced fa12 worth the extra $250? I’m using these in a electronically noisy office environment. Sorry, one last question, do these go on sale?



I am quite sure the fa-12 will be of your liking. It does provide a bit of high tame without being agressive, and brings the mids a bit up. It also seems to improve the depth perception to me.

I'm loving the fa12 with lcdx. Pls get it and tell me how it does with the ares ii, as i am looking forward to get the ares ii


----------



## RenEh

Can anyone comment on how much brokerage was via dhl/UPS?


----------



## Dionysus

FA-12 ......
749 USD unit + 100 USD UPS delivery + 25 USD Remote control option + 42 USD PayPal fee = 916 USD
this is a pretty fair quote, to Florida USA.


----------



## RenEh

Dionysus said:


> FA-12 ......
> 749 USD unit + 100 USD UPS delivery + 25 USD Remote control option + 42 USD PayPal fee = 916 USD
> this is a pretty fair quote, to Florida USA.


Wouldn't you expect to pay import fees from DHL/UPS? That is super close to the Burson Soloist x3 in sale price, hmm. The Flux stuff will stack so much nicer with my ares 2 though. WAF > differences between the amps I guess.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Just got the HD 560s. My phone and computer can power it to deafening levels while STILL sounding great, but I'm interested in a dac and amp. Would the Flux FCN-10 or Topping A90 be a better choice?


----------



## Honeypot

Have you got a dac?
If so which? 
Would you get d90 for a90?
Fcn-10 vs d90-a90 combo?
I would go for fcn-10 based on reviews.
But I'm loving flux so beware of bias.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I'm just a nobody with his first pair of audiophile headphones. They're analytically tuned so I wonder if warming up the chain with the fcn-10 or going pure analytical with the a90 stack would be better.


----------



## cangle

PhazeCrive said:


> I'm just a nobody with his first pair of audiophile headphones. They're analytically tuned so I wonder if warming up the chain with the fcn-10 or going pure analytical with the a90 stack would be better.


The FCN-10 is a great all in one (from what I've read) plus would give you plenty of power for any other headphones you end up with. If you bought that I could see it lasting you a long time without the need for an upgrade. However I would recommend upgrading headphones before investing a lot in source gear since headphones will make the biggest difference in sound quality


----------



## Honeypot (Mar 4, 2021)

PhazeCrive said:


> I'm just a nobody with his first pair of audiophile headphones. They're analytically tuned so I wonder if warming up the chain with the fcn-10 or going pure analytical with the a90 stack would be better.


I haven't tried the 560 but, but if they are analytical, going for analytical type of amp will result in fatiguing experience.
The fa-10/12/fcn will soften a bit the listening.
The fcn-10 has very impressive reviews and both amp and dac are reported to be excellent for their price.
I went for fa-12 and it complement rly well the lcdx. But I've also a pair of beyerns dt1990, known for being harsh in the upper part of the spectrum. Well, i can tell you they change quite a bit vs  my dac/amp Topping dx7-pro (also on the analytical side), and i prefer them on the fa-12. They have soften the 1990s to make them enjoyable.

It's true that going for headphones will yell bigger results. But a buy of a good dac/amp will also help you all the way with future headphones.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Appreciate the feedback


----------



## Dionysus

I confirm my FA-12 will arrive tomorrow, very excited.


----------



## RenEh

cangle said:


> The red looks really nice, better than some other pictures I've seen. I've connected both the balanced and single ended outputs of the ADI-2 to the FA-12 but will be using it in balanced with my 4z. Also that box in the bottom left corner is my streamer in case you're wondering


Uhh that looks pretty big to fit on a desk.


----------



## richierich

What are the lead times now since these amps are on backorder?


----------



## cangle

richierich said:


> What are the lead times now since these amps are on backorder?


The lead time for my FA-12 which I ordered at the beginning of this year was 3 weeks. I would just email Flux Lab Acoustics for the product you're interested as they're pretty responsive


----------



## lalawilson168

Hi guys , where do you select color options for your FA12 or 10 ?


----------



## Honeypot

lalawilson168 said:


> Hi guys , where do you select color options for your FA12 or 10 ?


You can't in their web site.
The color options were provided by them due to a lack of stock of black panels. 
Ask them via email, maybe they can arrange something for you.


----------



## teknorob23

PhazeCrive said:


> Just got the HD 560s. My phone and computer can power it to deafening levels while STILL sounding great, but I'm interested in a dac and amp. Would the Flux FCN-10 or Topping A90 be a better choice?



Well you'll need an additional DAC with the A90. I think with your HP's FCN10 with a bit more body and warmth than the slightly a90 will be a better fit. The internal DAC in the FCN10 is very well matched with a very natural, well textured as well as resolving presentation. Its closer to the sound you'll get from an R2R ladder DAC which is more organic and natural (generally speaking) than a Delta sigma DAC. You also have the added option of a streamer which can be used with any 3rd party UPnP player like M-Connect, Jriver, etc.


----------



## adityadubey (Mar 5, 2021)

So after a few emails back and forth, I took the plunge and ordered a FA-12S. Blue faceplate and silver knob, should hopefully look like the photo attached. Was advised lead time would be about 2 weeks. So the wait begins


----------



## Infoseeker (Mar 5, 2021)

adityadubey said:


> So after a few emails back and forth, I took the plunge and ordered a FA-12S. Blue faceplate and silver knob, should hopefully look like the photo attached (shared by Vitaliy from Flux labs). The gold faceplate with black knob looks cool too though. Was advised lead time would be about 2 weeks. So the wait begins



(remove that copper attachment  picture, he emailed that to me too & said not to share it) [that is the copper, not the gold]


----------



## Dopaminer

That blue looks really good. I was thinking all silver. What is this copper that you mention??


----------



## funkur (Mar 5, 2021)

Volot comment on Sandu's Youtube review of the Burson Soloist 3XP (which he liked a little more than the FA-10 fwiw - I believe Slim1970 had one and sold it)

Soundnews
1 day ago
"Can't say the V word in here, its forbidden. Shush. It's incoming soon. The only thing holding me posting that review is its official webpage that isn't ready..."


https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/burson-soloist-3x-review/


----------



## Infoseeker

If the VOLOT is 2.5k usd...mind as well get a good speaker amp at that point.


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 6, 2021)

My FA-12 has arrived, can’t comment yet as I'm allowing some time for breaking in. I can comment on build, it’s very good. The connectors are all top notch grade and the case and potentiometer are all real good.
so, far the only strange thing I encountered was, how low the volume output is before12:00 at first I thought there may have been an issue with the amps outputs. Once I turned it up I realized it was fine.


----------



## RenEh

Dionysus said:


> My FA-12 has arrived, can’t comment yet as I'm allowing some time for breaking in. I can comment on build, it’s very good. The connectors are all top notch grade and the case and potentiometer are all real good.
> so, far the only strange thing I encountered was, how low the volume output is before12:00 at first I thought there may have been an issue with the amps outputs. Once I turned it up I realized it was fine.



I'd love to hear your thoughts, and any comparisons you have to other amps. What is your chain?


----------



## Dionysus

Soon, I’m running the Matrix mini i pro 3 as preamp balanced. 
Hd800s and Hd660s as my main cans. I mostly run Roon streaming off my Mac Mini as core for now.


----------



## Dionysus

So, quick first impressions after a good few hour of warmup and a few hours of listening.
 The presentation coming from FA-12 is a lot more softened. It’s not so forward sounding. A lot less of that hyper analytical sound that have found in the SMP/ THX variant. I can listen for hours and not get fatigued. I’ll add no loss of detail though. 
I’ll comment on the bass first since it’s the one area that I immediately noticed improvements. It’s meaty lots of textures and layers, it’s controlled and resolving with good detail and extends to the sub base.
The highs are very sweet and detailed great air around the instruments you can really get all the information deep in the music. 
Was listening to Pat Metheny Sixty Six from America undefined I have been listening to this record a lot and the drum parts timbre is so good. 
I’ll come and leave more comments as I get time.


----------



## Dopaminer

I'm liking the all-black stealth look, but I like the silver knob, too. Did you communicate with Flux to choose the color, or does he just shop what he wants? 
I'm really looking forward to more of your impressions with the HD800...


----------



## cangle

Dopaminer said:


> I'm liking the all-black stealth look, but I like the silver knob, too. Did you communicate with Flux to choose the color, or does he just shop what he wants?
> I'm really looking forward to more of your impressions with the HD800...


Once you place your order you can select a different face plate color via email. The silver knob is standard however I saw one who got a black knob, I think @Honeypot.


----------



## manishex (Mar 7, 2021)

Dionysus said:


> So, quick first impressions after a good few hour of warmup and a few hours of listening.
> The presentation coming from FA-12 is a lot more softened. It’s not so forward sounding. A lot less of that hyper analytical sound that have found in the SMP/ THX variant. I can listen for hours and not get fatigued. I’ll add no loss of detail though.
> I’ll comment on the bass first since it’s the one area that I immediately noticed improvements. It’s meaty lots of textures and layers, it’s controlled and resolving with good detail and extends to the sub base.
> The highs are very sweet and detailed great air around the instruments you can really get all the information deep in the music.
> ...


Nice! It should get even better with time.

Fa-12 and thx789 may measure roughly the same but this is another testimony towards not blindly purchasing the best measuring amp and assuming you're getting the best possible "transparent sound" (assuming adequate power). That's why auditioning and reviews are important, we each have preferences within these differences.

Makes me wonder if those who measured the fa-12 took a good listen, or perhaps would tell you that you wouldn't be able to tell apart these amps in a blind test.


----------



## RenEh

Dopaminer said:


> I'm liking the all-black stealth look, but I like the silver knob, too. Did you communicate with Flux to choose the color, or does he just shop what he wants?
> I'm really looking forward to more of your impressions with the HD800...


I contacted their customer support, and you can get whatever color knob you want with the special order instructions. Remote is still available too, but I don't think I'll get one personally.


----------



## Honeypot

Dionysus said:


> So, quick first impressions after a good few hour of warmup and a few hours of listening.
> The presentation coming from FA-12 is a lot more softened. It’s not so forward sounding. A lot less of that hyper analytical sound that have found in the SMP/ THX variant. I can listen for hours and not get fatigued. I’ll add no loss of detail though.
> I’ll comment on the bass first since it’s the one area that I immediately noticed improvements. It’s meaty lots of textures and layers, it’s controlled and resolving with good detail and extends to the sub base.
> The highs are very sweet and detailed great air around the instruments you can really get all the information deep in the music.
> ...


Happy to hear you got your big boy!

I'm also happy that your description is very close to mine!
How is the soundstage (wide and depth) with the 800?
Cheers =D


----------



## brianfromspace

Dionysus said:


> My FA-12 has arrived, can’t comment yet as I'm allowing some time for breaking in. I can comment on build, it’s very good. The connectors are all top notch grade and the case and potentiometer are all real good.
> so, far the only strange thing I encountered was, how low the volume output is before12:00 at first I thought there may have been an issue with the amps outputs. Once I turned it up I realized it was fine.


What's also weird with mine is on 0 it still plays music. Do you have that as well?


----------



## Dionysus

brianfromspace said:


> What's also weird with mine is on 0 it still plays music. Do you have that as well?


ill check later as I mentioned in my early impressions mine was the opposite I had no sound until I hit 12.

I fiddling around with connecting sources and trying to understand what was happening with amps output and lack of sound at anything in the 0 to 12: o'clock range. Again I was not hearing any music being played.
I then, set the source in this case the Matrix Mini to a fixed output and it resolved my problem, you could also set variable but need to set volume at max.


----------



## Honeypot

brianfromspace said:


> What's also weird with mine is on 0 it still plays music. Do you have that as well?


Mine does as well. But very very little.


----------



## brianfromspace

I did some comparisons this week, but need to listen more this coming week to be 100% sure.

UP FOR THE TEST: Mytek Brooklyn Bridge 'solo' vs Mytek into FA-12 vs Mytek into Audio Valve RKV HAA edition (with and without internal DAC)

I realised that differences to my ears were little. I am so happy with my Hifiman Arya's sound I realised, compared to Diana V2's (sounded too flat to me) and Hifiman HE-1000SE (too much attention to highs).

I'm sorry but my findings and vocabulary are quite simple:

*Mytek 'solo' Good, Amazing, just what I missed hooking the Arya's up to my Fiio M15. More slam, better bass and bigger soundstage with the 6 Watts out of the Bridge. (maybe compared to the other amps a slightly dull bass, but only because I heard the others...)
with FA-12 got me improved bass extension. Soundstage, mid and highs stayed the same to my ears.
into the RKV HAA edition got me bigger soundstage, even better (layered) bass and highs more separated and holographic. More of a fun sound.
Above findings got me wondering if I should go for a separate Streamer, DAC and the RKV, but it will result in a €5K+ solution and need a lot more space on my desk. The Mytek Brooklyn Bridge is a €2700 solution with the possibility to add a linear power supply (on a lot of forums it's stated that the Mytek will get even better in bass and soundstage with a LPS).

A bit of a sad day it was me not hearing a big difference in the amps. All the distinguish terms that I read on forums, I could not really hear with my untrained ears.  Not a €2K difference with the RKV and even a more slight difference with the Mytek and Flux. Maybe it's just my ears suffering from the many house parties I attended. I also could not hear the difference going from internal DAC from the RKV vs the Mytek into the RKV. But happy with the result that the all-in-one mini Mytek solution sounds amazing to me with the Arya's. This will not take up a lot of space on my desk.

(picture shows an Audio Valve Luminare, later the RKV HAA Edition was added to the test bench. Test was done at Headphone Auditions Amsterdam, they just moved to a new location in Amsterdam, such a great store with all you need regarding Head-fi. Stefan (owner) was nice enough for me to take my time and compare an amp that he didn't sell (the Flux)).


----------



## cangle

brianfromspace said:


> What's also weird with mine is on 0 it still plays music. Do you have that as well?


Yes I noticed that the other day. Specifically it was medium gain, balanced output, on the LCD-4z


----------



## gancanjam (Mar 7, 2021)

Had an opportunity to spend more time with Mr. Dave this weekend. Dave + Utopia is an heavenly combo, Dave as AIO is enough to drive Utopias, the result is dead neutral, natural, analogous, musical and honest output with lot of resolutions and layering of instruments where on can hear subtle nuances of instruments like pluck echo, hiss et.al. Even though it was transparent & detailed, one would think it will be less forgiving for poor source but that was not the case, everything sounded "right" and less fatiguing as well still without any roll offs. What one will miss is the raw power, impact and fun signature for EDM & pop genres from Dave AIO as it's internal amplifier is not up to the task in the TOTL level. Again I am being critical here, for easier to drive HPs the Dave AIO is more than enough

So to give it more power & oomph, I paired Dave DAC with another High end powerful Sim audio Moon Neo 430 HAD amplifier and used Utopia, immediately everything amped up as there was more headroom, fun, layering, impact et.al. Dave did lost some of it's natural , analog sounding signature though as it was sounding bit digital which is inherited from the Neo 430 but boy the result was fun and ticked many boxes. Dave certainly trumped the internal DAC of Neo 430 in terms of resolution, airiness, sound stage, tonality, layering which itself says a lot about Dave's quality as Neo 430 is already a superb DAC.  Neo 430 also produced more treble and bass compared to using Dave AIO with utmost clarity and resolution. Bottom-line is, Dave an excellent DAC and can pair well with most amplifier depending on your preference

I have not tried with FCN-10 yet but  I can say for sure that Dave will beat FCN-10 internal DAC convincingly  but what I want to find out is if FA-10 amplifier can match Dave's resolution levels and technicalities. If I am able to get that then will post my impressions on how the $750 amplifier match to the levels of $11000 DAC.


----------



## RenEh

Honeypot said:


> Mine does as well. But very very little.


Even my 789 does that with balanced input on low gain.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959 (Mar 8, 2021)

adityadubey said:


> So after a few emails back and forth, I took the plunge and ordered a FA-12S. Blue faceplate and silver knob, should hopefully look like the photo attached. Was advised lead time would be about 2 weeks. So the wait begins



Love that color!


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 11, 2021)

An update to the FA-12 that I recently purchased. More of the same really, it’s got about 100 hours now and I couldn’t be happier.
Very satisfied with this amplifier and I find it to be an excellent value and end game for me. After trying a dozen or so amplifiers or more, I have come to a point were my focus now will be a change in transducer. 
I’m thinking of the Hifiman Arya or the next iteration of the Focal Clear. 
Finally for me this amp has provided me with more detail into the music then most amplifiers I’ve tried at 3 times the price. It’s allowed me to listen into the music with all the detail, resolution and great instrument separation with air between the instruments with amazing imaging and staging. It’s well controlled without losing any detail in the bass or getting sloppy and even when I go up in volume it’s just as controlled. I really highly recommend this amplifier to anyone looking for a fully balanced amp that’s just musical. Thanks to everyone on this thread for making me aware of this product.


----------



## buffalomatt

In case anyone is interested, I reached out to Flux on Facebook about the RPi in the FCN-10 and they said it is possible to change the RPi OS. 

"it is possible to install alternate OS, as  default and stable we preinstall moOde Audio OS" 

They said the board is a RPi 3b and that it outputs the audio signal via the Amanero 384 USB converter. 

So it might be possible to install an OS that makes this unit a Roon endpoint. I didn't ask if swapping the OS will affect the warranty or not though...


----------



## brianfromspace

buffalomatt said:


> In case anyone is interested, I reached out to Flux on Facebook about the RPi in the FCN-10 and they said it is possible to change the RPi OS.
> 
> "it is possible to install alternate OS, as  default and stable we preinstall moOde Audio OS"
> 
> ...



This safes you the hussle. Moode works fine with Roon.


----------



## buffalomatt

brianfromspace said:


> Moode works fine with Roon


I guess I should have checked that first 😂

I got so excited that I could install Ropieee XL that I didn't even check Moode


----------



## The Hawk

Just wanted to thank all the folks who took the time to put into words their experience with their Flux amps. Thanks to that feedback it made my choice much easier given what I’m looking for sound wise out of my next amp. I placed an order for a FA-12S yesterday. Really looking forward to it and the different take it’ll provide over my THX 789.


----------



## Honeypot (Mar 12, 2021)

The Hawk said:


> Just wanted to thank all the folks who took the time to put into words their experience with their Flux amps. Thanks to that feedback it made my choice much easier given what I’m looking for sound wise out of my next amp. I placed an order for a FA-12S yesterday. Really looking forward to it and the different take it’ll provide over my THX 789.



Trying to go back to your previous amp when have listened to the Flux for a couple weeks... 





Btw excellent choice!
All i dislike about flux is the size of the fa-12.

Edit: I quoted the wrong post. Now it's ok


----------



## Terriero

Dionysus said:


> FA-12 ......
> 749 USD unit + 100 USD UPS delivery + 25 USD Remote control option + 42 USD PayPal fee = 916 USD
> this is a pretty fair quote, to Florida USA.


For the people who have ordered the FA 12 with the remote control option. Do you have a picture of that option? It includes an IR receiver in the front plate or something similar?

And one more question, anybody of the thread have tried the Senn HD 600 with FA 10 or 12? What are your impressions compared to other amps?

Thanks a lot.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Anyone else thinking that the noise floor is a tad high? Anyways, get a new knob


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 12, 2021)

Terriero said:


> For the people who have ordered the FA 12 with the remote control option. Do you have a picture of that option? It includes an IR receiver in the front plate or something similar?
> 
> And one more question, anybody of the thread have tried the Senn HD 600 with FA 10 or 12? What are your impressions compared to other amps?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


This is the the included remote for the FA-12 and the IR receiver just to the right of the remote


----------



## RenEh

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Anyone else thinking that the noise floor is a tad high? Anyways, get a new knob


Which model?


----------



## Terriero

Dionysus said:


> This is the the included remote for the FA-12 and the IR receiver just to the right of the remote


Thank you very much. How do you connect the receiver to the FA-12? Do the arrows to change channels have any effect? And the mute button?


----------



## Dionysus

It’s a 3.5mm input to the back of the amplifier. The ir receiver can be placed anywhere really with 3m double sided tape.  Mute works just as expected. The up and down arrows do not have any functionality.


----------



## Infoseeker (Dec 12, 2021)

-redacted


----------



## Honeypot

For noise floor to be audible on my fa-12 I've to go to max vol on mid gain or 3 o'clock in high.


----------



## arar

Anyone with a ZMF Aeolus tried the FA-12 or FA-12s? I ordered the Aeolus a while ago so while I'm waiting for it to arrive, I'm killing time, trying to come up with a solid "mid-fi" (400-600e) upgrade path from my modest Schiit Magni 3 (+ Topping D10, but I feel a "good enough" DAC is probably enough for now). Already decided on a tube amp (a Finnish 250e DIY kit), but I'd like to get a better solid state amp too and came across this thread.

I love a thick, rich, really warm sound with solid bass and somewhat tamer highs (I have tinnitus), which should be what I'm gonna be getting with the Aeolus. But I'd be interested in hearing if the apparently quite warm FA-12 _enhances _the Aeolus' sound signature or if it becomes overkill, too warm or muffled or something? I also got the universe suede pads for the Aeolus which should bring down the bass, up the highs and apparently do something magical to the mids, so I'm wondering if the cans with those pads + FA-12s would be a winner combo.


----------



## Dopaminer

Really struggling to decide between the FA-12, the Singxer SA-1, and a couple of other options from Gustard and Cayin.
First choice is definitely Flux, but lack of Pre-outs on the FA-12 is a major drawback. Not sure why the FA-12S has them and the 12 does not; maybe something related to the balanced architecture.

Anyway they are extremely communicative and helpful!.
They shared some photos of the new copper color and the space grey. Love both of these . . .


----------



## RenEh

Dopaminer said:


> Really struggling to decide between the FA-12, the Singxer SA-1, and a couple of other options from Gustard and Cayin.
> First choice is definitely Flux, but lack of Pre-outs on the FA-12 is a major drawback. Not sure why the FA-12S has them and the 12 does not; maybe something related to the balanced architecture.
> 
> Anyway they are extremely communicative and helpful!.
> They shared some photos of the new copper color and the space grey. Love both of these . . .


I haven’t received my fa-12 yet, but the responsiveness of their customer service is what won me over. Burson I only received automated messages until a week later. Singxer you’re probably on your own in regards to support, and the small form factor really makes me question if it’s truly class A. I can’t speak of Gustatd or Cayin as I never checked them out.


----------



## Dionysus

Dopaminer said:


> Really struggling to decide between the FA-12, the Singxer SA-1, and a couple of other options from Gustard and Cayin.
> First choice is definitely Flux, but lack of Pre-outs on the FA-12 is a major drawback. Not sure why the FA-12S has them and the 12 does not; maybe something related to the balanced architecture.
> 
> Anyway they are extremely communicative and helpful!.
> They shared some photos of the new copper color and the space grey. Love both of these . . .



What is the rest of the equipment chain you have?


----------



## Infoseeker

That space grey is nice. I wish they still had champagne.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Now we need color options for the volume knob, haha. 

I'm patiently waiting for the Volot


----------



## capone1413 (Mar 14, 2021)

Quick question regarding the FA-10. I’m looking for a new amp for my OG HE-6 and im currently using an ifi iDAC micro as DAC. I would like to connect the HE-6 on the balanced connector. Question is how can I connect the ifi because it only has cinch/RCA connection which I would assume is SE?!
Correct me if I’m wrong but I have read that it’s only possible SE2SE or balanced 2 balanced?!


----------



## Dopaminer

capone1413 said:


> Quick question regarding the FA-10. I’m looking for a new amp for my OG HE-6 and im currently using an ifi iDAC micro as DAC. I would like to connect the HE-6 on the balanced connector. Question is how can I connect the ifi because it only has cinch/RCA connection which I would assume is SE?!
> Correct me if I’m wrong but I have read that it’s only possible SE2SE or balanced 2 balanced?!


I believe the FA-10 is single ended. (The XLRs are there for convenience.) If so, sonically it won't matter  if you use XLR or RCA inputs, or the 6.3 or XLR output.


----------



## Ichos

Yes it is single ended.

Go ahead and connect the rca in and use whatever output you wish.
It is exactly the same.


----------



## Infoseeker

Will he need to limit the output of the ifi? Can the fa-10 take it without clipping?


----------



## Dopaminer

Infoseeker said:


> Will he need to limit the output of the ifi? Can the fa-10 take it without clipping?


From the ifi RCA outputs it should be okay, just like any other DAC line out. I wouldn't try it from the headphone PO.


----------



## iFi audio

capone1413 said:


> Question is how can I connect the ifi because it only has cinch/RCA connection which I would assume is SE?!



That's correct, yes.



capone1413 said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong but I have read that it’s only possible SE2SE or balanced 2 balanced?!



Personally I'd stick to one or the other


----------



## MusicBeforeGear

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Anyone else thinking that the noise floor is a tad high? Anyways, get a new knob


Looking sharp. Which knob is it?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

MusicBeforeGear said:


> Looking sharp. Which knob is it?


Elma K1 Metal Shaper, I've ordered the black one as well. Maybe I'm going for that one after all


----------



## The Hawk

Rebel Chris said:


> Now we need color options for the volume knob, haha.
> 
> I'm patiently waiting for the Volot


Email them and ask......they might offer it. I asked for a black knob for my 12S I ordered and they said no problem.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

MusicBeforeGear said:


> Looking sharp. Which knob is it?



Got the black one today


----------



## jonathan c

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Got the black one today


The amplifier looks classy!


----------



## jonathan c

Rebel Chris said:


> I'm patiently waiting for the Volot


Four others? are Waiting for Volot:  Estragon, Lucky, Pozzo, Vladimir....


----------



## adityadubey

About 10 days since I ordered my FA-12S. Patiently waiting and re-arranged my desk meanwhile to make some space for it. Calculations suggest it should be about two iFis wide


----------



## Terriero

adityadubey said:


> About 10 days since I ordered my FA-12S. Patiently waiting and re-arranged my desk meanwhile to make some space for it. Calculations suggest it should be about two iFis wide


Very beautiful the wood of your desk, what is it?


----------



## adityadubey

Terriero said:


> Very beautiful the wood of your desk, what is it?


I got it from Costco, but it's this one: https://www.northridge-home.com/phillipe-desk 

I thought 5 ft was plenty wide, but it's getting crowded now with a PC, 27" monitor and FA 12S in the near future


----------



## Contrails

Can we use the RCA inputs into the FA12/FA12S and use the XLR output to headphones?

Has anyone had a chance to compare the FA12 vs Violectric amps?


----------



## Spektrograf

Thought I'd drop a note to say I just got my FA-12S today on Mar-15 that was ordered on Feb-5. Hope it helps set expectations for those waiting.

Vitaliy has been great to work with and really helpful. I definitely enjoyed the process and it's been worth the wait.

The FA-12S is quite an amp for it's price point. Looking forward to see if it evolves with burn-in or if it stays steady as it is new out of the box.


----------



## adityadubey

Contrails said:


> Can we use the RCA inputs into the FA12/FA12S and use the XLR output to headphones?
> 
> Has anyone had a chance to compare the FA12 vs Violectric amps?


My understanding is that you can do that with the FA 12S, since it’s not a balanced amp and the XLR is there for convenience.

On the FA 12, which is fully balanced, you can’t switch is my understanding, I.e. RCA inputs only connect to SE output and same for XLR in and out.


----------



## capone1413

hi, did anyone ordered an Flux with a grounded power connector? Does it have any influence to the sound? I’m from the EU and it’s necessary that the device is grounded...


----------



## adityadubey

Spektrograf said:


> Thought I'd drop a note to say I just got my FA-12S today on Mar-15 that was ordered on Feb-5. Hope it helps set expectations for those waiting.
> 
> Vitaliy has been great to work with and really helpful. I definitely enjoyed the process and it's been worth the wait.
> 
> The FA-12S is quite an amp for it's price point. Looking forward to see if it evolves with burn-in or if it stays steady as it is new out of the box.


Thank you, that is a bit longer than I was hoping for but useful info nonetheless  May I ask how long was it before it shipped and how long did shipping take for you?


----------



## Spektrograf

adityadubey said:


> Thank you, that is a bit longer than I was hoping for but useful info nonetheless  May I ask how long was it before it shipped and how long did shipping take for you?


It was pretty quick for me. It shipped on Friday and got to my front door Monday via DHL.


----------



## Terriero

adityadubey said:


> I got it from Costco, but it's this one: https://www.northridge-home.com/phillipe-desk
> 
> I thought 5 ft was plenty wide, but it's getting crowded now with a PC, 27" monitor and FA 12S in the near future


Very pretty desk you have  Mine is 1,60 X 0,90 m. and I'm going to put the monitor attached to the wall to make room for Volot and a Denafrips DAC (still investigating about those DACs )


----------



## adityadubey

Terriero said:


> Very pretty desk you have  Mine is 1,60 X 0,90 m. and I'm going to put the monitor attached to the wall to make room for Volot and a Denafrips DAC (still investigating about those DACs )


Haha I have a bid currently on ebay on a used Denafrips Ares II


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 17, 2021)

adityadubey said:


> About 10 days since I ordered my FA-12S. Patiently waiting and re-arranged my desk meanwhile to make some space for it. Calculations suggest it should be about two iFis wide


Ripping Smashing Pumpkins zero on your Astell & kern cd ripper MKII, couldnt help it. I was just ripping a dozen or so cd on my SP1000 as I was reading through this thread.
As I listen to my FA-12 now that AK released firmware to allow our player to be Roon end points.  Waiting patiently for my Clear MG arrive tomorrow. Can’t wait to how they sound on my  FA-12.


----------



## adityadubey

Dionysus said:


> Ripping Smashing Pumpkins zero on your Astell & kern cd ripper MKII, couldnt help it. I was just ripping a dozen or so cd on my SP1000 as I was reading through this thread.
> As I listen to my FA-12 now that AK released firmware to allow our player to be Roon end points.  Waiting patiently for my Clear MG arrive tomorrow. Can’t wait to how they sound on my  FA-12.


Ha ha yeah, I still have some 30-40 CDs lying about so got the ripper recently. I'm quite looking forward to listening to the line out from the AK Kann Alpha into the FA-12S.


----------



## Dionysus

I did connect my SP1000 to my FA-12, I also purchased this cable https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4TQTNZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A364KLI3BZY8MZ&psc=1
And the warm sound of the AKM 4497EQ dac sound excellent through them. Give it a try the AK players are great sources.


----------



## adityadubey

I'm planning to use this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/iFi-Cable-...=ifi+4.4mm+to+xlr+cable&qid=1616023486&sr=8-2

out of the 4.4mm on the Kann Alpha into the xlrs on the Flux.


----------



## The Hawk

Infoseeker said:


> I wish they still had champagne.


According to their website (which they recently updated) it shows Champagne is still as an option for all their models


----------



## lalawilson168

Champagne is not available anymore I was told yesterday. I was offered rose gold/copper instead which I will be taking for the FA-12. Any ZMF owners uses the FA12? Is 300ish mw into 300ohms too lil for these cans?


----------



## cangle

lalawilson168 said:


> Champagne is not available anymore I was told yesterday. I was offered rose gold/copper instead which I will be taking for the FA-12. Any ZMF owners uses the FA12? Is 300ish mw into 300ohms too lil for these cans?


I've used the HD800S which is also 300 ohms however I don't know how the sensitivity rating compares to your ZMF. I get plenty of volume out of both medium gain around 1-2 o'clock and noon on high gain with the 800S.


----------



## Dionysus

Same with my HD800s, I get same results as Cangle with volume at 1:00. Plenty of output.


----------



## lalawilson168

Thanks chaps , good to know, looking FWD to joining the Flux club


----------



## Dopaminer

lalawilson168 said:


> Champagne is not available anymore I was told yesterday. I was offered rose gold/copper instead which I will be taking for the FA-12. Any ZMF owners uses the FA12? Is 300ish mw into 300ohms too lil for these cans?


 
And I was told silver is also no longer available, so they need to update that drop down menu.... 

My Arya just arrived, and I still haven't decided on getting a Flux, or not. 
Would love to see any and all impressions and pictures from lucky Fluxers!


----------



## Honeypot

I've used fa-12 with beyerns 1990 which is 250ohm and i had enough volume for skull crushing at about 1 on mid gain. 
Haven't used the high gain for any of my cans.
Usually my can of choice is audeze lcd-x. 

I'll take a pict for you later. Need some cleaning.

There are plenty of descriptions regarding sound and other aspects in this thread. You can also go into the website. The second review on fa-12 page is mine.
I have compared it to many other fa-12 users reviews and it seems we all on same page, so you can take it as accurate.


----------



## cangle

Just plugged in my modded HE-6 SE to the FA-12 and I'm surprised that it actually drives them sufficiently in high gain. They're modded because I have dekoni elite hybrid pads, a LQI balanced cable, and I've removed the grills in place of a more open but fragile option that I made out of some grill tray thing. I haven't used these for probably close to 6 months now. They definitely compete with the 4z but have a more linear sound while the 4z to my ears is more punchy in the low end and the treble is not as present. Just wanted to let people know that this amp, the FA-12, is capable of driving something demanding like the HE-6 SE but I'm sure it would sound even better out of the FA-10.


----------



## manishex

Just from the experience of driving the LCD-4 out of the FA-10 and FA-12, I can say the FA-12 drives them well, but the fa-10 is more like a speaker amp - the sound goes from inside your head to out. FA-12 mid gain was like fa-10 low gain in terms of dynamics. I think the fa-10 suits headphones that are a bit spicy on the treble and need tonnes of power like the Arya/he-6, I would advise you to demo them with fa-10 if possible. Now I'm eagerly awaiting the volot which will be more then 3x the price...


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

manishex said:


> Just from the experience of driving the LCD-4 out of the FA-10 and FA-12, I can say the FA-12 drives them well, but the fa-10 is more like a speaker amp - the sound goes from inside your head to out. FA-12 mid gain was like fa-10 low gain in terms of dynamics. I think the fa-10 suits headphones that are a bit spicy on the treble and need tonnes of power like the Arya/he-6, I would advise you to demo them with fa-10 if possible. Now I'm eagerly awaiting the volot which will be more then 3x the price...


Recently read that the Volot is supposed to sell for about $2500 US.  Earlier estimates were twice that.  Hopefully it will be
closer to the $2500 price.


----------



## rmsanger

come join us over on the Volot thread for when the news drops that it's out...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...on-impressions-reviews-and-discussion.952903/

Should be any "week"  now and Sandu will likely have the first review when the "press blackout" is listed.  Hopefully they didn't find any PCB issues during production of their first batches.

Also fingers crossed that a champagne version will be available at some point.


----------



## HiFiRobot

manishex said:


> Just from the experience of driving the LCD-4 out of the FA-10 and FA-12, I can say the FA-12 drives them well, but the fa-10 is more like a speaker amp - the sound goes from inside your head to out. FA-12 mid gain was like fa-10 low gain in terms of dynamics. I think the fa-10 suits headphones that are a bit spicy on the treble and need tonnes of power like the Arya/he-6, I would advise you to demo them with fa-10 if possible. Now I'm eagerly awaiting the volot which will be more then 3x the price...


So you prefered LCD-4 with FA-10, or?


----------



## manishex (Mar 24, 2021)

HiFiRobot said:


> So you prefered LCD-4 with FA-10, or?


Yep, simply because the LCD4 needs a ton of voltage and the fa-10 has truckloads. The soundstage is larger, dynamics more powerful. But the fa-12 is more refined and if you have easy to drive headphones, I'd recommend that.


----------



## Dionysus

I recently picked up a set of the new Focal Clear MG absolute great synergy with my gear. A little over a week and my HD800s have not been given any head time. 
‘I love the sound of the Flux FA12.


----------



## adityadubey

Got an update from Vasily that my FA-12S should be shipped next week (for reference I ordered on the 4th of March). Fingers crossed it gets here soon


----------



## lalawilson168

I ordered my FA 12 on the 19 mar and was told will take about 2 weeks. I might have to adjust my expectations then ...


----------



## adityadubey

I was told about 2 weeks lead time initially as well, but going through this thread I think 3-5 weeks is a more reasonable estimate.


----------



## Dionysus

Yeah mines took about 4 weeks.


----------



## RenEh

My FA-12 arrived in about 2.5 weeks. 

Having spent more time with the Flux FA-12 I feel like I can give out some decent feedback.

Pi2aes with moode resampling to 176khz->Coax->Denafrips Ares 2 in NOS->Flux Fa-12 High Gain->LCD2C

Is a great pairing. Very smooth mid centered and detailed sound. Bass is still present, well extended and detailed. It’s a more textured and nuanced sound than a dynamic slam. The same set up with a thx 789 can come off as harsh in the treble. The FA-12 has detailed treble, but the mids seem to be the star of the show. The treble is more laid back for fatigue free listening, but with the FA-12 you don’t miss the treble at all. With the THX 789 and modi 3 I always missed the treble with these headphones and sometimes the treble came off as fatiguing even though it wasn’t that present. This is the best I’ve ever heard the LCD2C by a good margin.

Pi2aes->Coax->Denafrips Ares 2 in OS mode->Flux Fa-12->Anandas

Detailed, and airy with a little less bass slam than I was expecting. Mids are a little on the distant side. I was never able to hear height in the stage with the THX 789, but with the FA-12 the sound can sometimes be heard as coming from above your head. the stage is more filled out from center to left and right as well, but depth still alludes me somewhat. I might need to add a PEQ to increase the bass slam for the Ananda’s while the THX 789/Modi 3 did not need it. Bass is still well extended and textured, but just not as present as on the Schiit dac. Now I want to hear a bifrost 2 to compare, but aesthetically the Denafrips Ares 2 and Flux FA-12 are a great match. Ironically, the easy going treble of FA-12 seems to take away from the Ananda’s treble sparkle. The same can be said for my balanced modded KSC75. I’ll give this a bit more time for brain burn in. I might be too used to the THX 789 at this point.

The Flux Fa-12 is a superior amp to the THX 789 in most ways sonically. It’s less fatiguing, more detailed and has better channel balance. My 789 had a little channel imbalance at low volumes. However, the FA-12 does seem to deliver noticeably less power. I listen to both of my not very power hungry planars on high gain at around 11:00-12:00. If you’re looking for a really aggressive and in your face kind of sound I guess you could prefer the THX 789.

The biggest upgrade with the FA-12 was the elimination of my ground loop problem with the THX 789 paired with the Denafrips Ares 2 over balanced.

On a side note, I think the Denafrips Ares 2 is best used on speakers. The reverb it can provide seems a little wasted on headphones. Something to consider when it’s time to upgrade my stereo.


----------



## Infoseeker

My fa-10 just got shipped, took 3 weeks.

I am fine with that for a small scale maker. Just to let people know eta expectations.


----------



## cfranchi (Mar 31, 2021)

I have received my FCN-10 ( I had FA-10 previously), how do you use airplay ? Whatever the FCN-10 input mode my iphone cannot see it as an airplay devices, frustrating.


----------



## Ichos

cfranchi said:


> I have received my FCN-10 ( I had FA-10 previously), how do you use airplay ? Whatever the FCN-10 input mode my iphone cannot see it as an airplay devices, frustrating.


You need to fiddle with moOde OS.
It is not that simple and I don't know if airplay is supported.
I am using bubbleUPnP with my Android phone.


----------



## cfranchi (Mar 31, 2021)

Ichos said:


> You need to fiddle with moOde OS.
> It is not that simple and I don't know if airplay is supported.
> I am using bubbleUPnP with my Android phone.



Well fcn-10 is supporting airplay if I read the specs from flux, I don’t expect to config anything with moode OS... I just want to plug and play


----------



## Ichos

You can email them and ask for a brief guide.


----------



## cfranchi

Ichos said:


> You can email them and ask for a brief guide.



I already did that, they sent me link to moode OS site, Vitaliy has to check with its team


----------



## cfranchi

In a more general way, for desktop usage, when you are using streaming services like spotify or deezer, how do you send stream to your DAC ?


----------



## Ichos

cfranchi said:


> In a more general way, for desktop usage, when you are using streaming services like spotify or deezer, how do you send stream to your DAC ?


For an Android user you have to install bubbleUPnP and configure it and moOde OS.
With LAN cable is very easy and for WiFi you need to follow some more steps.
There are a lot of user guides available online.


----------



## RenEh

An update on my FA-12 experience. I ran the FA-12 for a 24+ hour burn in when I first got it. Somewhere around hour 30 the left channel went out. After turning it off for a few seconds and then back on it ran fine so I didn't think much of it. 

However, my volume wheel is now acting up. It starts clicking in the middle of playing music after I haven't touched the volume wheel for a few minutes. Worst yet, it occasionally jumps up in dB to much, much louder than my current listening volume for about a second and then back down. I contacted support, so I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

RenEh said:


> An update on my FA-12 experience. I ran the FA-12 for a 24+ hour burn in when I first got it. Somewhere around hour 30 the left channel went out. After turning it off for a few seconds and then back on it ran fine so I didn't think much of it.
> 
> However, my volume wheel is now acting up. It starts clicking in the middle of playing music after I haven't touched the volume wheel for a few minutes. Worst yet, it occasionally jumps up in dB to much, much louder than my current listening volume for about a second and then back down. I contacted support, so I guess we'll see what happens.


That always sucks when you first get a new piece of equipment, sorry to hear. I've had experiences like this before but for whatever reason when things settle in the problems tend to disappear. Hoping that's your case too, fingers crossed.


----------



## cfranchi

Ichos said:


> For an Android user you have to install bubbleUPnP and configure it and moOde OS.
> With LAN cable is very easy and for WiFi you need to follow some more steps.
> There are a lot of user guides available online.



I’ll check but I don’t think bubbleUPnP is running on iphone.
For now I have plugged my iphone with apple CCK cable and the USB cable provided by Flux, too bad I didn’t want to have cables anymore...


----------



## teknorob23

Contrails said:


> Can we use the RCA inputs into the FA12/FA12S and use the XLR output to headphones?
> 
> Has anyone had a chance to compare the FA12 vs Violectric amps?



Yes the 12 has slightly more extended treble and a fuller more forward mids. Bass quantity is about the same, but v281 is little better defined/resolved, as it is across the range. The 12 tonally richer and more special for that reason. The v281 is warm but not as warm and despite being well resolved it had a very shallow stage so it can sound congested. Whereas the 12 sounds very balanced and right and considering the £1000+ price difference the performance is a much closer run thing.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

teknorob23 said:


> Yes the 12 has slightly more extended treble and a fuller more forward mids. Bass quantity is about the same, but v281 is little better defined/resolved, as it is across the range. The 12 tonally richer and more special for that reason. The v281 is warm but not as warm and despite being well resolved it had a very shallow stage so it can sound congested. Whereas the 12 sounds very balanced and right and considering the £1000+ price difference the performance is a much closer run thing.


Thanks for that info, I plan on comparing the FA-10 to the V280 but seeing if I can get my hands on an FA-12 to do a full comparison as it seems like there are more similarities there.

How do you compare your Bryston to the lot?


----------



## Ichos

cfranchi said:


> I’ll check but I don’t think bubbleUPnP is running on iphone.
> For now I have plugged my iphone with apple CCK cable and the USB cable provided by Flux, too bad I didn’t want to have cables anymore...


I don't have experience with iPhone but I am sure that there must be a solution to stream music from an iPhone or Mac.


----------



## RenEh

RenEh said:


> An update on my FA-12 experience. I ran the FA-12 for a 24+ hour burn in when I first got it. Somewhere around hour 30 the left channel went out. After turning it off for a few seconds and then back on it ran fine so I didn't think much of it.
> 
> However, my volume wheel is now acting up. It starts clicking in the middle of playing music after I haven't touched the volume wheel for a few minutes. Worst yet, it occasionally jumps up in dB to much, much louder than my current listening volume for about a second and then back down. I contacted support, so I guess we'll see what happens.



Wow, I got this reply with 40 minutes of my email!



> Hello Rene
> 
> Don't panic please, the potentiometer needs a little mechanical running-in, just plug off the headphones and turn off the unit. You need to make short fitness program with volume knob, from the extreme left position, make 15-20 vigorous rotations of the volume control, clockwise and counterclockwise.  Next, move the volume control to its original position (at minimum volume), plug in the headphones, and then turn on the device.  Enjoy your use
> 
> Best regards, Vitaliy



Crazy fast support! I'll report back if this fixed this issue or not in a day or two.


----------



## cangle

RenEh said:


> However, my volume wheel is now acting up. It starts clicking in the middle of playing music after I haven't touched the volume wheel for a few minutes.


Glad Vitaliy got back to you. Sometimes the knob on my FA-12 gets stuck between steps and will keep clicking until I move the knob slightly. I've read about this happening to others on this thread too. Also this doesn't seem to affect the output of the amp, at least I'm not hearing any distortion in the headphones when the knob is clicking continuously. Not sure if this is the same issue you're having but usually just moving the knob up or down in volume will resolve the problem.


----------



## cfranchi

Some impressions about FCN-10 vs FA-10 + Chord Mojo as DAC : take this with a grain of salt because I have a moderate confidence in memory when comparing stuff, however it seems that with FCN-10 the sound is more spacious and lighter, HE6se with Flux amps is still an impressive combo.


----------



## RenEh

cangle said:


> Glad Vitaliy got back to you. Sometimes the knob on my FA-12 gets stuck between steps and will keep clicking until I move the knob slightly. I've read about this happening to others on this thread too. Also this doesn't seem to affect the output of the amp, at least I'm not hearing any distortion in the headphones when the knob is clicking continuously. Not sure if this is the same issue you're having but usually just moving the knob up or down in volume will resolve the problem.


I don't think it's the same issue as I do occasionally run in to this issue, but it does resolve easily by slightly adjusting the knob.


----------



## teknorob23

Relaxasaurus said:


> Thanks for that info, I plan on comparing the FA-10 to the V280 but seeing if I can get my hands on an FA-12 to do a full comparison as it seems like there are more similarities there.
> 
> How do you compare your Bryston to the lot?



The Bryston is the most resolving of the lot by a clear margin, with comparatively little colouration, but still has a slight warmth. Staging is exceptional, with the best depth I’ve heard in a SS amp. Out
Of the two it’s closer in tuning to the 10 but with more extension at the top and as i say better resolving across the range, but this has to be seen context of their relative price points. The fa range are by far the best value amps I’ve heard.


----------



## brianfromspace

Dopaminer said:


> And I was told silver is also no longer available, so they need to update that drop down menu....
> 
> My Arya just arrived, and I still haven't decided on getting a Flux, or not.
> Would love to see any and all impressions and pictures from lucky Fluxers!


I've posted some pics earlier in the thread. It's a great combo.


----------



## RenEh

brianfromspace said:


> I've posted some pics earlier in the thread. It's a great combo.


Is the FA-12 enough for the Arya?


----------



## brianfromspace

RenEh said:


> Is the FA-12 enough for the Arya?


For my taste yes and I listen a lot to electronic music with a lot of bass. It controls the bass very well and at the same time a lot of air and detail in the top end. I also have a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (in balanced mode) also very nice. Very quiet analytical machine, very very nice bass control. For my taste nicer then the FA12, but i prefer a quite precise representation vs a more softer, warm friendly sound. I don't get fatigued at all. Don't know what that is...


----------



## RenEh

brianfromspace said:


> For my taste yes and I listen a lot to electronic music with a lot of bass. It controls the bass very well and at the same time a lot of air and detail in the top end. I also have a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (in balanced mode) also very nice. Very quiet analytical machine, very very nice bass control. For my taste nicer then the FA12, but i prefer a quite precise representation vs a more softer, warm friendly sound. I don't get fatigued at all. Don't know what that is...


Thank you for the insight! Coming from a thx 789 I really wanted something less fatiguing. I wouldn’t describe the FA-12 analytical at all. Although, I wonder if a more analytical dac would change that. I miss it a little.


----------



## brianfromspace

RenEh said:


> Thank you for the insight! Coming from a thx 789 I really wanted something less fatiguing. I wouldn’t describe the FA-12 analytical at all. Although, I wonder if a more analytical dac would change that. I miss it a little.


i find the brooklyn bridge more analytical not the fa12


----------



## cfranchi

I’m still waiting for more Flux support regarding streaming with my FCN10, with mconnect app my fcn10 is not displayed as an upnp device, I’m using the flux wifi receiver with LAN input mode, is there something special to do? I begin to think there is an issue with my fcn10.


----------



## brianfromspace

cfranchi said:


> I’m still waiting for more Flux support regarding streaming with my FCN10, with mconnect app my fcn10 is not displayed as an upnp device, I’m using the flux wifi receiver with LAN input mode, is there something special to do? I begin to think there is an issue with my fcn10.


With Moode you can hook up Roon. Or are you not using that?


----------



## cfranchi (Apr 2, 2021)

brianfromspace said:


> With Moode you can hook up Roon. Or are you not using that?



Ok I skipped the connection of the FCN-10 to my wifi network... I thought airplay created its own wifi hotspot (I want to use only airplay) and then was plug and play like bluetooth...

Here is the recommendation from Flux:

« Connecting Ethernet Network

When connected to an Ethernet Network, FCN-10 can playback music files shared within a LAN or receive pushed music from DLNA or Airplay. Please connect Ethernet cable to RJ-45 port on the rear panel to one of the LAN connection port of your router. The DAC will obtain the IP address and connect to the network automatically.
WIFI activation
When connected to LAN, you need to use web-interface in your browser. Inputs FLUXA or IP address and connect to the device.
- choose "Configure" then "Network", click "Scan" button next to SSID field.
- choose your Wifi network name in the dropdown list and enter your password in
"Password" field. Then hit "Apply" button on the top of the page and reboot.
- To check if your WIFI is working correctly go to "Configure" and "Network" again.
Open system menu again and it will show the additional entry "System info", it opens a popup window. Next to "WLAN0 IP" there should be a number, if it still shows "unassigned" the WIFI setup did not work. If WLAN shows an IP address you can remove the ethernet cable.
Connecting Ethernet Network »

Here the local IP adress of the FCN-10 : 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1


----------



## RenEh

RenEh said:


> Wow, I got this reply with 40 minutes of my email!
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy fast support! I'll report back if this fixed this issue or not in a day or two.



Sadly this hasn’t resolved the problem. I still get clicking randomly while listening to music and worse yet, I still get loud bangs, where the volume jumps up many dB for a second. Not sure I can use this amp to protect my hearing and my headphones.


----------



## Infoseeker

Any chance it could be the remote control firing commands?


----------



## RenEh

No remote on mine.


----------



## cfranchi (Apr 3, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> Ok I skipped the connection of the FCN-10 to my wifi network... I thought airplay created its own wifi hotspot (I want to use only airplay) and then was plug and play like bluetooth...
> 
> Here is the recommendation from Flux:
> 
> ...



So I finally connected to my fcn10, the address was 192.168.0.15, I got it from my router webpage.
However after doing the configuration above, the fcn10 cannot connect to my wifi network, I’m using Free network operator, nothing special about my wifi, don’t know if it is an issue from moode OS, or if I have to configure my router differently, I was in chat with Vitaliy, he was responsive but for now I have no solution... any idea ?


----------



## andys76

cfranchi said:


> So I finally connected to my fcn10, the address was 192.168.0.15, I got it from my router webpage.
> However after doing the configuration above, the fcn10 cannot connect to my wifi network, I’m using Free network operator, nothing special about my wifi, don’t know if it is an issue from moode OS, or if I have to configure my router differently, I was in chat with Vitaliy, he was responsive but for now I have no solution... any idea ?


There can be several problems/restrictions set on your router side. Check if you don’t have such. If the router has advanced administration mode you might try to check its logs. Some devices log connection and ip request attempts in network. There can be reason (lack of dedicated addresses, mac filter etc). My fcn has connected easily according to instruction posted earlier here (actually i didn’t need it). My router is tplink. Fcn doesn’t see 5mhz wifi, only 2.4mhz networks.


----------



## cfranchi

andys76 said:


> There can be several problems/restrictions set on your router side. Check if you don’t have such. If the router has advanced administration mode you might try to check its logs. Some devices log connection and ip request attempts in network. There can be reason (lack of dedicated addresses, mac filter etc). My fcn has connected easily according to instruction posted earlier here (actually i didn’t need it). My router is tplink. Fcn doesn’t see 5mhz wifi, only 2.4mhz networks.



Interesting, thank you, I’ll check


----------



## Dionysus

ive Have been toying around with the idea of a Schiit Lyr 3 and or a Feliks Echo II for a tube alternative. Can anyone here comment on whether they have used a tube pre amp combo with a Flux amp, and do you like it? Thanks in advance.


----------



## cangle

Has anyone compared the FA-10 to the headphone amp of the Schiit Ragnarok 2?


----------



## Infoseeker

My FA-10 arrived. Took about 3 weeks.


----------



## lalawilson168

Infoseeker said:


> My FA-10 arrived. Took about 3 weeks.


Ha! A mounted Hugo 2! Nice one. With the FA-10, kind of makes the 887 redundant?


----------



## Infoseeker

Yeah, for now the 887 is just for A/B until I put it to retirement.


----------



## Lohb

lalawilson168 said:


> Ha! A mounted Hugo 2! Nice one. With the FA-10, kind of makes the 887 redundant?


My 887 did not last long once Flux FA-10 came in...no competition - best case use for 887 was LCD-2.1..great synergy due to a nudge more brightness in 887 lifting that rolled treble...it really was a perfect lift for 2.1s but i'm fully over to LCD-XC now so 2.1 on backburner.


----------



## Dopaminer

Infoseeker said:


> My FA-10 arrived. Took about 3 weeks.




Oh man, this is why sharing pics is so interesting. That is the LAST color I would have chosen, but now seeing it in context I think it looks so freakin cool. 
I definitely have too many grey and black boxes....


----------



## Infoseeker (Apr 5, 2021)

Lohb said:


> My 887 did not last long once Flux FA-10 came in...no competition - best case use for 887 was LCD-2.1..great synergy due to a nudge more brightness in 887 lifting that rolled treble...it really was a perfect lift for 2.1s but i'm fully over to LCD-XC now so 2.1 on backburner.



I can think of one unexpected scenario. The 887 compression actually makes the Seinhesser HD800S have a less faraway sound and becomes forward sounding comparable to other openbacks headphones.

Lol

Also, I agree it does well with headsets and iems that skirt close to having nuetral or less  keep all the treble in their presentation.  (Where other chains would make them lose more treble and sound off)


----------



## adityadubey (Apr 5, 2021)

Infoseeker said:


> My FA-10 arrived. Took about 3 weeks.


Interesting, that would mean that you placed order after mine for the FA-12S (March 4th), I guess they would be prioritising the higher value product. I'm hoping to get a dispatch notification this week hopefully!

Also, I have the same face panel and knob combo. Does look nice in the photo


----------



## Infoseeker (Apr 5, 2021)

adityadubey said:


> Interesting, that would mean that you placed order after mine for the FA-12S (March 4th), I guess they would be prioritising the higher value product. I'm hoping to get a dispatch notification this week hopefully!
> 
> Also, I have the same face panel and knob combo. Does look nice in the photo


Just checked my email history. It seems I did the order in March 2nd.

Oh and another thing I noticed is I have a red pcb despite this being the non-pro model.
(I remember wondering about Zeos having a different model with his red pcb in his review, but it seems the non-pro can be red too)


----------



## cangle

Infoseeker said:


> Just checked my email history. It seems I did the order in March 2nd.
> 
> Oh and another thing I noticed is I have a red pcb despite this being the non-pro model.
> (I remember wonder about Zeos having a different model with his red pcb in his review, but it seems the non-pro can be red too)


Is there a way to verify that you did in fact receive an FA-10? Looking at the images on the website I'm not seeing any super obvious pcb differences other than the color


----------



## adityadubey

Yay! That just built up some more anticipation for me lol  How’s the build quality? It looks solid in the photos


----------



## Infoseeker

Build quality seems very good. Nothing is rattling and the weight distribution is pretty balanced and doesn't tilt in a specific direction.  All legs are level. Front knob turns very smooth and doesn't wiggle.


----------



## brianfromspace

cangle said:


> Is there a way to verify that you did in fact receive an FA-10? Looking at the images on the website I'm not seeing any super obvious pcb differences other than the color


you can check this by going rca in and xlr out. If this works, its a FA10 if it doesn't it's a FA12


----------



## adityadubey

That's a good point, FA-10 and FA-12S which are both not balanced should be able to play RCA inputs out of the XLR (and vice versa), but for the FA-12 which is balanced you can only do RCA to single ended or xlr to xlr


----------



## cangle

brianfromspace said:


> you can check this by going rca in and xlr out. If this works, its a FA10 if it doesn't it's a FA12


Right I was actually curious about determining if it's an FA-10 or FA-10 pro


----------



## The Hawk (Apr 6, 2021)

cangle said:


> Is there a way to verify that you did in fact receive an FA-10? Looking at the images on the website I'm not seeing any super obvious pcb differences other than the color


His is a FA-10

Flux Labs has been using the red PCBs on all their FA amps as of late

And if you look closely at his photo you can see it has the same mosfet/transistor layout as shown below. That layout is unique to the FA-10 series


----------



## cangle

The Hawk said:


> His is a FA-10
> 
> Flux Labs has been using the red PCBs on all their FA amps as of late
> 
> And if you look closely at his photo you can see it has the same mosfet/transistor layout as shown below. That layout is unique to the FA-10 series


ok thanks


----------



## Terriero

@teknorob23, I saw your Venus II announcement in the Classifieds. Which DAC are (or will you purchase after the Venus II) you using with your FA 10?

I thought, from your comments, that you have fallen in love with the Venus II and it's synergy with the FA 10.


----------



## teknorob23

Terriero said:


> @teknorob23, I saw your Venus II announcement in the Classifieds. Which DAC are (or will you purchase after the Venus II) you using with your FA 10?
> 
> I thought, from your comments, that you have fallen in love with the Venus II and it's synergy with the FA 10.



Love is a fickle and often fleeting thing in my household, at least when it comes to headfi  I've gone back to the TT2. it was a tough call as they couldnt be more different. The Venus2 has a huge stage, with an amazing organic sense of texture and it had a lot more energy than other R2R DACs i've heard. The TT2 is that bit more resolving and controlled especially in the low end, it's faster snappier transients are very addictive especially with electronica which makes up most of my listening. Both DACs pair very well with the 10 and 12. TT2 slightly better with the 12 and venus just edges is with 10 creating a one of the most organic presentations together, that i've heard. I should caveat my choices are led in part by whats the best tool for listening to and evaluating new cables and filters, not just listening for fun and for this former the TT2 is more reliable and better for picking up subtle nuances due to just how resolving it is. It is of course double the price of the venus2.


----------



## Slim1970

teknorob23 said:


> Love is a fickle and often fleeting thing in my household, at least when it comes to headfi  I've gone back to the TT2. it was a tough call as they couldnt be more different. The Venus2 has a huge stage, with an amazing organic sense of texture and it had a lot more energy than other R2R DACs i've heard. The TT2 is that bit more resolving and controlled especially in the low end, it's faster snappier transients are very addictive especially with electronica which makes up most of my listening. Both DACs pair very well with the 10 and 12. TT2 slightly better with the 12 and venus just edges is with 10 creating a one of the most organic presentations together, that i've heard. I should caveat my choices are led in part by whats the best tool for listening to and evaluating new cables and filters, not just listening for fun and for this former the TT2 is more reliable and better for picking up subtle nuances due to just how resolving it is. It is of course double the price of the venus2.


The TT2 is just amazing with all my amps. I do have a slight preference for the Hugo 2 with the my FA-10 due it being a bit brighter in nature. The resolving abilities of the Hugo 2 brings up the detail and clarity levels on the FA-10. The mods help expand the FA-10's soundstage for a wonderful blend of musicality.


----------



## cangle

The Flux IRIY amp/dac/stand is on sale at the moment for $549. https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/iriy/


----------



## adityadubey

Woohoo! Just got my shipping notification


----------



## The Hawk

Ditto for my FA-12S. Should have it by late next week

Ordered March 10th


----------



## adityadubey

Haha, talk about timing. Just got an email saying that the RebelAmp is now back in stock as well and avialable to order.


----------



## The Hawk

adityadubey said:


> Haha, talk about timing. Just got an email saying that the RebelAmp is now back in stock as well and avialable to order.


I considered that amp but the green is a deal breaker for me. There was talk on another forum that black was finally going to be offered in April but the site still only shows the green.


----------



## cangle (Apr 20, 2021)

I have a RebelAmp and love the color actually but it's certainly a love it or hate it sort of color. I actually just compared the FA-12 to the RebelAmp on the GoldenSound discord yesterday but will post my findings here too.

I did the comparison on the Ether CX (stock tuning pads) and then later on the 800S. Some tracks I used were Skellig - David Gray, High Life - Detroit Swindle, In Degrees Remix - Foals, The 0 to 1 Infinity - LDS, and Journey (Upwellings Remix) - Luss. Tonally the amps are very similar. They both sound good and I think they are both good choices however I would give the edge to the FA-12. The RebelAmp has an energetic forward sound with good balance tonally. The FA-12 is smoother with more space and less flat spatially than the RebelAmp. Also on the FA-12, the decay is better and the bass has more texture to it. I think the treble is actually softer on the FA-12 but with better detail. However, these differences are not super obvious and only clear when comparing the two.

Another note about the two amps is that the gain on the volume control seems to be higher on the RebelAmp than it is on the FA-12. For example, listening with the 800S I will be at 11:00 and medium gain on the RebelAmp and 1-2:00 and high gain on the FA-12. I think the volume ramps up faster after 12 on the FA-12 while the RebelAmp has a more linear progression. Plus the knob feels nicer on the RebelAmp.

Edit: Clarified which amp I was referring to in the second paragraph


----------



## The Hawk

I’ve never heard either amp but based on other reviews I imagined they both sound more alike than different. I think they’re both excellent products that most folks would be happy to own if you’re looking for that Class A sound.

I‘ve read before the gain structure of Flux FA series amps is different than most, in that the volume is slow to increase below 11 o’clock and then ramps up faster as you go beyond that. Kinda weird when you don’t expect that but perhaps useful for folks with uber sensitive IEMS

Looking forward to getting my 12S to feed my LCD-X......I think they’ll pair very well.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

teknorob23 said:


> Love is a fickle and often fleeting thing in my household, at least when it comes to headfi  I've gone back to the TT2. it was a tough call as they couldnt be more different. The Venus2 has a huge stage, with an amazing organic sense of texture and it had a lot more energy than other R2R DACs i've heard. The TT2 is that bit more resolving and controlled especially in the low end, it's faster snappier transients are very addictive especially with electronica which makes up most of my listening. Both DACs pair very well with the 10 and 12. TT2 slightly better with the 12 and venus just edges is with 10 creating a one of the most organic presentations together, that i've heard. I should caveat my choices are led in part by whats the best tool for listening to and evaluating new cables and filters, not just listening for fun and for this former the TT2 is more reliable and better for picking up subtle nuances due to just how resolving it is. It is of course double the price of the venus2.



I'm currently perusing the classifieds for a Venus II in the States but they are a bit hard to come by, especially for less than new for some reason. I will agree the TT2's transients are just mind-bending. I couldn't believe anything could sound better when I heard it with an M Scaler with female vocals and jazz.

There's also the Holo May which sounds like it would be a match made in heaven with the Flux amps, but I wonder how different from the Venus it would be.


----------



## Honeypot

The Hawk said:


> I’ve never heard either amp but based on other reviews I imagined they both sound more alike than different. I think they’re both excellent products that most folks would be happy to own if you’re looking for that Class A sound.
> 
> I‘ve read before the gain structure of Flux FA series amps is different than most, in that the volume is slow to increase below 11 o’clock and then ramps up faster as you go beyond that. Kinda weird when you don’t expect that but perhaps useful for folks with uber sensitive IEMS
> 
> Looking forward to getting my 12S to feed my LCD-X......I think they’ll pair very well.


I've got fa12 and lcdx and it's a lovely paring.


----------



## teknorob23

Relaxasaurus said:


> I'm currently perusing the classifieds for a Venus II in the States but they are a bit hard to come by, especially for less than new for some reason. I will agree the TT2's transients are just mind-bending. I couldn't believe anything could sound better when I heard it with an M Scaler with female vocals and jazz.
> 
> There's also the Holo May which sounds like it would be a match made in heaven with the Flux amps, but I wonder how different from the Venus it would be.



I've not heard the Holo, but the Venus has more energy and pace than other R2R players i've heard which works really well with both the 10 and 12.


----------



## cfranchi (Apr 11, 2021)

So after several trials my FCN10 is not able to do airplay (I’m using iphone 12 pro max and latest iOS) : my fcn10 is well connected to my wifi network and I can see fcn10 as an airplay device on my Deezer app, but when streaming music the Deezer app says that connection to fcn10 is not possible and then I can’t see anymore fcn10 as an airplay decice. Of course I got some support from Vitaliy.

That’s too bad because I sold my FA-10 and Chord Mojo because I was tired with cables, for now I connect my iphone to fcn10 with USB cable : I won’t return the fcn10 because with my HE6se the combo is superb.

For those interested with fcn10 for airplay, beware that it may not work.


----------



## cangle

cfranchi said:


> So after several trials my FCN10 is not able to do airplay (I’m using iphone 12 pro max and latest iOS) : my fcn10 is well connected to my wifi network and I can see fcn10 as an airplay device on my Deezer app, but when streaming music the Deezer app says that connection to fcn10 is not possible and then I can’t see anymore fcn10 as an airplay decice. Of course I got some support from Vitaliy.
> 
> That’s too bad because I sold my FA-10 and Chord Mojo because I was tired with cables, for now I connect my iphone to fcn10 with USB cable : I won’t return the fcn10 because with my HE6se the combo is superb.
> 
> For those interested with fcn10 for airplay, beware that it may not work.


Would trying a different operating system for the raspberry pi help or have you already tried that?


----------



## cfranchi

cangle said:


> Would trying a different operating system for the raspberry pi help or have you already tried that?



No, I don’t want to take this road


----------



## adityadubey (Apr 12, 2021)

UPS says I should have my FA-12S delivered tomorrow  From the folks here who already got their, what sort of burn-in did you go through and were there any specific things you did which helped?


----------



## cfranchi

adityadubey said:


> UPS says I should have my FA-12S delivered tomorrow  From the folks here who already got their, what sort of burn-in did you go through and were there any specific things you did which helped?



Just power on your Fa12 around 15-30 min before listening to music


----------



## Dionysus

I let my FA-12 run in for 2 hour before listening. And about 100 hour in it settled.


----------



## The Hawk

My FA-12S was delivered today.

Must say DHL was fast as it shipped last Thursday and made it all the way to Canada in less than 120hrs

All told it took 33 days after ordering

Will post pics later tonight


----------



## Spektrograf

adityadubey said:


> UPS says I should have my FA-12S delivered tomorrow  From the folks here who already got their, what sort of burn-in did you go through and were there any specific things you did which helped?


There's some gear I've had that have benefitted from burn-in, but the FA-12S wasn't one of them for me. Vitaliy hinted in an email there might be some subtle shift as the amp hits steady state operating temp. This is in theory broadly the case for electronics, but I find the impact de minimis at best. YMMV.


----------



## cangle

adityadubey said:


> UPS says I should have my FA-12S delivered tomorrow  From the folks here who already got their, what sort of burn-in did you go through and were there any specific things you did which helped?


I've found that the amp can take some time, up to a couple hours, to reach a constant temperature but seems to reach optimal performance after 30 minutes or so but probably less than that. Might be fun to see what you think as the amp warms up. I haven't noticed any break in but haven't really been listening for any changes either.


----------



## The Hawk (Apr 12, 2021)

All set up and did some listening in the little time I had tonight. It’s VERY early but I’m enjoying the sound even though I’m straight out of the box at this point

The build is nice, feels hefty and the finish is very good. All the switches and volume knob feel like quality pieces.

For those curious I ordered it specifically with a black volume knob so it would match my other gear and also ordered the remote option which works fantastic


----------



## shinewu

May I ask a newbie question. I want to buy an amp to drive Hifiman HE6se v2, which is known to be power hungry. What is the difference between FA10 and FA12? They seem to be identical in all specs. So FA12 is a better balanced design, but FA10 is more powerful?

I am currently using Singxer SA-1 with HE6se. I feel it does a decent job.


----------



## cangle

shinewu said:


> May I ask a newbie question. I want to buy an amp to drive Hifiman HE6se v2, which is known to be power hungry. What is the difference between FA10 and FA12? They seem to be identical in all specs. So FA12 is a better balanced design, but FA10 is more powerful?
> 
> I am currently using Singxer SA-1 with HE6se. I feel it does a decent job.


The simple answer is that the FA-10 is significantly more powerful than the FA-12 so I would choose the FA-10 to pair with your HE6SE. The FA-12 is fully balanced while the FA-10 is not. They are both class A. They are both the same size with the same controls. FA-12 can only do single ended in, single ended out or balanced in and balanced out while the FA-10 can output of both outputs regardless of the input used.


----------



## The Hawk (Apr 13, 2021)

shinewu said:


> May I ask a newbie question. I want to buy an amp to drive Hifiman HE6se v2, which is known to be power hungry. What is the difference between FA10 and FA12? They seem to be identical in all specs. So FA12 is a better balanced design, but FA10 is more powerful?
> 
> I am currently using Singxer SA-1 with HE6se. I feel it does a decent job.


The FA10 is single ended amplifier and outputs a lot of power (up to 16watts)

The FA12 is a balanced amplifier and makes substantially less power (although it does have plenty of power when headphones are connected to its balanced output)

They sound slightly different as well. The FA10 is known as a neutral sounding amplifier whereas the FA12 leans more to the warmer side.


----------



## Dionysus

If it is anything like the HE6 and needs gobs of power, then the FA-10 is your match. I wouldn't get hung up on Balanced.


----------



## Honeypot

I generally dont do any burning, but my fa12 has got a bit of refinement with time.
About warming I just turn to play, but about 30min in, the fa12 reveals itself.


----------



## adityadubey

The Hawk said:


> All set up and did some listening in the little time I had tonight. It’s VERY early but I’m enjoying the sound even though I’m straight out of the box at this point
> 
> The build is nice, feels hefty and the finish is very good. All the switches and volume knob feel like quality pieces.
> 
> For those curious I ordered it specifically with a black volume knob so it would match my other gear and also ordered the remote option which works fantastic


Mine still appears to be stuck in customs and clearance hell somewhere on the UK border. UPS even took away the estimated delivery date


----------



## The Hawk

adityadubey said:


> Mine still appears to be stuck in customs and clearance hell somewhere on the UK border. UPS even took away the estimated delivery date


Mine was shipped via DHL. When given the option when having items shipped I NEVER use UPS. They are far and away THE WORST when it comes to brokerage fees and taxes.

Mine went through Heathrow on its way here on Saturday

Hope you get it soon 👍🏻


----------



## Honeypot

adityadubey said:


> Mine still appears to be stuck in customs and clearance hell somewhere on the UK border. UPS even took away the estimated delivery date


Same happened to me. The whole customs delayed the arrival like a week. 
At the end i got it alright...
Hope yours goes faster...


----------



## adityadubey

Got delivered 30 mins ago  of course it’s on the day when I have hours of back to back calls and can’t play with it even though I unboxed and put it on my desk at least


----------



## adityadubey

Set it up while I was on calls so still need to clean up some of the cables, I also need a bigger desk in the long run, but it does look nice! Initial sound impressions are also super positive.


----------



## Terriero

adityadubey said:


> Set it up while I was on calls so still need to clean up some of the cables, I also need a bigger desk in the long run, but it does look nice! Initial sound impressions are also super positive.


I love the picture in the back   Congratulations for your purchase. I hope you enjoy a lot.


----------



## davidio

Terriero said:


> I love the picture in the back   Congratulations for your purchase. I hope you enjoy a lot.


I’m going to feed my 12s with line out from an original peachtree nova, with the  Sabre chip DAC. Has anyone else attempted this?


----------



## lalawilson168

adityadubey said:


> Set it up while I was on calls so still need to clean up some of the cables, I also need a bigger desk in the long run, but it does look nice! Initial sound impressions are also super positive.


Congrats, I emailed up Vitality last week and he said mine should be shipped end of this week. Needless to say im checking my emails on an hourly basis.... painful


----------



## adityadubey

davidio said:


> I’m going to feed my 12s with line out from an original peachtree nova, with the  Sabre chip DAC. Has anyone else attempted this?


I've been feeding it with the line out from my Astell & Kern Kann Alpha which has dual sabre DACs (ES9068AS) and it sounds amazing. The warmth of the 12s really works well with the tons of details from the DAP.


----------



## Terriero

teknorob23 said:


> @Slim1970 has the bryston bha1 ever resided amongst your collection? I’m a big fan of their two channel hifi but I’ve not tried it. What I have been lucky enough to try for the past couple of weeks is the Questyle cma800r. Wads of clean power with a slightly sweet top end. The mids are the stand out feature of the presentation, incredible transparency definitely edging the fla amps. I initially thought it might even unseat the fa12, but as usual the 12 came back slugging and has one out again. It’s interesting every time I hear something from  the cleaner, neutral side, I’m initially lured by an apparent improvement in transparency, but the reality of at least my reality  is the fa12 has it all plus the extra bit of magic which makes it so beguiling. The decay for example is slightly slower but it just makes it sound more realistic and more human. The mids are lush but the detail is all there and again it’s realism perhaps slightly rose tinted that i love about it. As you say there is nothing mid-fi about the sound of these amps.
> 
> A good example of the 12's versatility, last night i was listening with Beyer T1.2's to some feel good pre-COVID drum and bass
> 
> ...



I came back to your post, to thank you again for sharing Matt Berninger music. Right now, I'm listening to it with my HD 800s and the cheap Asus Xonar Essence One (the Volot waiting is killing me) and loving so much...

I love when people here, beside commenting about "machines" and headphones (and also cables ), share some music that they love, that helps me a lot to get deep in some genres that I unknow.


----------



## Terriero

Ok, @teknorob23, this is for you (and, of course, for the other lovers of Flux lab products   ). I found this today browsing youtube with my mobile... And fell in love and suscribe to the channel 

I hope you like it:


----------



## saadi703

Has anyone tried FA-10 pro with Hifiman Susvara? Or compared FA-10 with FA-10 pro?


----------



## Trance_Gott (Apr 18, 2021)

Hi, I'm searching a FA-10 or FCN-10 located in EU. When someone want to sell please PM me.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 19, 2021)

saadi703 said:


> Has anyone tried FA-10 pro with Hifiman Susvara? Or compared FA-10 with FA-10 pro?


Not the "pro," but the modded one, and I really think the modded FA-10 might be da bee's knees among the three for driving the Susvara,






To be fair, I never tried the FA-10 pro myself, but when I spoke to Vitally on Facebook about getting an amp for the Susvara, he strongly recommended the FA-10 over the "pro" version. On the other hand, since modding my FA-10, I have never looked back, because I prefer the modded version on several levels, hence my position.

Of course, other mileages may vary, but not mine.


----------



## saadi703

sahmen said:


> Not the "pro," but the modded one, and I really think the modded FA-10 might be da bee's knees among the three for driving the Susvara,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. Can you please explain the different in terms of sound between modded and nonmodded one?

Did you modded yourself or you sent it to someone for the mod? Unfortunately, I don’t live in US so if the modder is in US then two way shipping would be expensive.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 19, 2021)

saadi703 said:


> Thanks for the info. Can you please explain the different in terms of sound between modded and nonmodded one?
> 
> Did you modded yourself or you sent it to someone for the mod? Unfortunately, I don’t live in US so if the modder is in US then two way shipping would be expensive.



Please see the following posts on this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...sions-discussion.930883/page-76#post-16043627

And especially this one, which is a direct comparative assessment I made of the two units not long after I got the the modded FA-10 back:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...sions-discussion.930883/page-76#post-16049004


The modder was @ksorota who resides in the US, unfortunately.


----------



## saadi703

sahmen said:


> Please the following posts on this thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...sions-discussion.930883/page-76#post-16043627
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info


----------



## davidio

adityadubey said:


> I've been feeding it with the line out from my Astell & Kern Kann Alpha which has dual sabre DACs (ES9068AS) and it sounds amazing. The warmth of the 12s really works well with the tons of details from the DAP.


Thanks for the input. I’ll let you know when it arrives and I give it a whirl.


----------



## sahmen

saadi703 said:


> Thanks for the info


Incidentally, the mod only involved swapping the capacitors.  It sounds like something you can have done for you by someone local who knows what they're doing, as long as you can order the replacement capacitors. That will remove the whole messy, and potentially expensive burden of having to ship your FA-10 overseas. If you should ever consider this option, I think @ksorota will have the right technical info about the caps and their specs.


----------



## saadi703

sahmen said:


> Incidentally, the mod only involved swapping the capacitors.  It sounds like something you can have done for you by someone local who knows what they're doing, as long as you can order the replacement capacitors. That will remove the whole messy, and potentially expensive burden of having to ship your FA-10 overseas. If you should ever consider this option, I think @ksorota will have the right technical info about the caps and their specs.


Thanks, sure I will contact @ksorota for the details.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I've seen a lot of people doing comparisons between Flux Labs amps and the Rebel AMP, so I thought it would be a good idea to chime in with my review on the Rebel AMP, may come in handy to some  

When you want a really awesome amplifier at around 500 USD, you totally want to know more about the Rebel AMP. As a big fan of the Rage Against The Machine, I was enthusiastic when I heard a company naming their products the Rebel AMP. 

This one is green, and the color is here to stay. It also has excellent driving power for about 500 USD, pretty much enough even for HE6SE, and it works as a Pre too! 

I took the time to compare it to most of the important competition, pair it with some interesting headphones, and do a full review on it! If you have any questions, I am around to help ~ 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/04/rebel-amp-headphone-amplifier-green-for-win.html


----------



## rmsanger (Apr 22, 2021)

cross between an FA10 pro and FA12.  Called the FA-22 almost like the jet.

https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/940678123139869/?d=n


----------



## manishex

rmsanger said:


> cross between an FA10 pro and FA12.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/940678123139869/?d=n


It won't be 16w, I wonder how powerful it is, if it's fully balanced and how much it will cost. In other news the Volot is becoming like half life 3 😆


----------



## Rebel Chris

manishex said:


> In other news the Volot is becoming like half life 3 😆


Noooo..... I have difficulty to see the difference between the FA 10 and FA 12 and then they make the F22...


----------



## cangle

That's not a volot


----------



## Terriero

rmsanger said:


> cross between an FA10 pro and FA12.  Called the FA-22 almost like the jet.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/940678123139869/?d=n


So, a few people here (and I suppose in other forums) waiting for Volot and no news about... And then Flux come with another product which is (in theory) a mix of their other amps.... I can't understand this...


----------



## OHBH

rmsanger said:


> cross between an FA10 pro and FA12.  Called the FA-22 almost like the jet.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/940678123139869/?d=n


Where is the volot?  

I'm getting tired,,,


----------



## The Hawk

manishex said:


> It won't be 16w, I wonder how powerful it is, if it's fully balanced and how much it will cost. In other news the Volot is becoming like half life 3 😆


Single ended
Less than 16w (official number not released)
$749


----------



## RenEh

Just wanted to get give an update on my new flux Fa-12 with volume knob issues. Still don't have it repaired :/ They tried to send me a replacement part after I agreed to service it myself, but apparently they sent it to the wrong address. My patience is growing a little thin even though their customer support has been responsive.


----------



## lalawilson168

rmsanger said:


> cross between an FA10 pro and FA12.  Called the FA-22 almost like the jet.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/175723716301984/posts/940678123139869/?d=n


Great, I just received shipping notification of FA-12, and heres a new version.


----------



## The Hawk

lalawilson168 said:


> Great, I just received shipping notification of FA-12, and heres a new version.


If you bought the FA-12 because you wanted balanced (and I assume that’s the case) you didn’t miss out on anything


----------



## RenEh

lalawilson168 said:


> Great, I just received shipping notification of FA-12, and heres a new version.


I noticed you own a Whammy and FA-12. Can you please tell us how they compare. I already own a FA-12, but I’m tempted to make a Whammy.


----------



## lalawilson168

RenEh said:


> I noticed you own a Whammy and FA-12. Can you please tell us how they compare. I already own a FA-12, but I’m tempted to make a Whammy.


Sure i'll definitely come back on it once I receive the FA-12. But just specs wise FA-12 is more powerful and its balanced, I think comparing FA-12S with Whammy is more apple to apple, and there the Whammy uses OP amp vs FA's discrete. I do love the Whammy but unless you are very confident on drilling and cutting holes into the chassis I cant really recommend it to beginner. Having said that I believe they are working on a full kit with pre drilled chassis (no ETA tho) , and if that happens I will be buying a coupl as it sounds really good and fun to make.


----------



## manishex

On the fa-22 fb post, flux mentioned they expect to release Volot in May. Other than that I wonder if the fa-22 will fill the $750 to $2550 market gap which is quite wide.


----------



## Dopaminer (Apr 23, 2021)

FA-12 is also $750 so they have two amps in that price bracket now.
I don't get the proposition of the FA-22; I guess it's just an experiment in different-sounding amplification vs FA-10, 12S, etc.

double-u tee eff is a 'whammy'?

(The prudes who run this forum are so sensitive!)


----------



## cangle

Dopaminer said:


> double-u tee eff is a 'whammy'?


The Whammy is a DIY amp created by someone at Pass Labs. Link here with description of what it is: https://diyaudiostore.com/products/whammy.


----------



## RenEh

Dopaminer said:


> FA-12 is also $750 so they have two amps in that price bracket now.
> I don't get the proposition of the FA-22; I guess it's just an experiment in different-sounding amplification vs FA-10, 12S, etc.
> 
> double-u tee eff is a 'whammy'?
> ...



I wonder if the FA-10 wasn't selling very well, because that's two revisions pretty quick.


----------



## cangle

I'm curious if anyone has used the Abyss 1266 with the FA-12? Obviously the FA-10 would be a better pairing but as I'm considering getting a 1266 and already have a FA-12 I wonder if spending the extra $$ on a FA-10 is worth it.

I posted in the past about driving the HE6-SE with the FA-12 and how I was able to get sufficient volume. Since the HE6-SE is harder to drive than the 1266 on paper I'm more interested if the FA-12 will give enough power to the 1266 for dynamics, impact, etc. instead of just playing music loud enough.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Want to buy a Fa10 inside EU when someone want to sell please PM me.


----------



## cangle

Been reading a bit more about IEMs and as an owner of the Campfire Audio Andromeda and Atlas I decided to give them a go with the FA-12. I haven't listened to either of these in some time since I haven't worked in an office for over a year now and at home I exclusively use headphones. In low gain I can listen with both around 9-10 o'clock. I think I'm hearing a bit of background noise but it's not super hissy or anything like that so this amp is definitely usable with both of them. The Atlas to my ears has always been a polarizing sound with it's booming bass. I'm not sure the warmer nature of the FA-12 is a good match but the Andromeda sounds great to me. It sounds like a closed 800S which a bit more body to it.

Just wanted to let people know that you can use the FA-12 with IEMs if you like although a portable DAP or quieter amp might be a better choice. The ADI-2 on its own is a great option for IEMs. Oh and I should clarify that I'm using 2.5mm balanced cables with the 2.5mm to 4pin xlr adapter that Drop sells.


----------



## lalawilson168

received the FA-12 for a few days , and left channel on the Bal output suddenly gone. I have contacted Flux, has anyone else experienced this? fwiw, the sound of the amp is phenomenal before one channel went dead, SE output still works im enjoying that for now...


----------



## RenEh

lalawilson168 said:


> received the FA-12 for a few days , and left channel on the Bal output suddenly gone. I have contacted Flux, has anyone else experienced this? fwiw, the sound of the amp is phenomenal before one channel went dead, SE output still works im enjoying that for now...


Happened to me intermittently too. Still waiting for repair instructions for over a month.


----------



## lalawilson168

you are kidding right....? a month!? i waited for 2 mths, and only used it for 3 days ... i dont wanna wait another month...


----------



## RenEh

lalawilson168 said:


> you are kidding right....? a month!? i waited for 2 mths, and only used it for 3 days ... i dont wanna wait another month...


My second channel would come back on after powering down for a few minutes, maybe try that? Kind of regretting not getting the Burson Soloist at this point.


----------



## lalawilson168

RenEh said:


> My second channel would come back on after powering down for a few minutes, maybe try that? Kind of regretting not getting the Burson Soloist at this point.


TBH the SE out works perfect and sounds good as well, but I kind of got the FA-12 for the Bal output, I have emailed them , lets hope vitality come back with a fix for it.


----------



## cfranchi

Anyone has Arya and FA-10 amp ?


----------



## saadi703

cfranchi said:


> Anyone has Arya and FA-10 amp ?


I do


----------



## cfranchi

saadi703 said:


> I do


How do they sing together ?


----------



## RenEh

lalawilson168 said:


> TBH the SE out works perfect and sounds good as well, but I kind of got the FA-12 for the Bal output, I have emailed them , lets hope vitality come back with a fix for it.


I don't know if this is related to our problems, but it looks like my FA-12 has Taiwanese power supply caps by Hitano instead of the touted Japanese caps on the FLUX website.  See pictures below, and compare to the official FA-12 pics.


----------



## elira

RenEh said:


> I don't know if this is related to our problems, but it looks like my FA-12 has Taiwanese power supply caps by Hitano instead of the touted Japanese caps on the FLUX website.  See pictures below, and compare to the official FA-12 pics.


Those don't account for your problems. You would have issues in both channels and they would affect the entire amp not just the volume control.


----------



## lalawilson168

Yea I doubt there's a cause of the issue, I did switch the amp off and turn the volume knob all the way a few times and turn it back on again it seems to work fine again. Having said that its somewhat discomforting they arent using the components as advertised on the website, but I wouldnt think sonically or structurally makes a difference hitano or nichicon.... correct me if im wrong....


----------



## elira

lalawilson168 said:


> I wouldnt think sonically or structurally makes a difference hitano or nichicon.... correct me if im wrong....


Those caps are part of the power supply, their impact on sound quality is minimal. The critical ones are the all the other ones that are closer to the signal path. Mine has the same caps pictured in their website. My guess would be that with the global component shortage they had to use a replacement.


----------



## RenEh

I've replaced the pot with what Vitaliy sent me and after several days of non stop burn in, the channel did not go out and I think I don't have the clicking issue, but I haven't had time to actually listen to my headphones for some time. It looks like the problem is from assembly. I think the issue is over tightening the nut holding the pot in the case is causing the issues, but hey I'm not an EE... anymore.


----------



## lalawilson168

RenEh said:


> I've replaced the pot with what Vitaliy sent me and after several days of non stop burn in, the channel did not go out and I think I don't have the clicking issue, but I haven't had time to actually listen to my headphones for some time. It looks like the problem is from assembly. I think the issue is over tightening the nut holding the pot in the case is causing the issues, but hey I'm not an EE... anymore.


whats an EE? but coming back to my unit, It seems like its working fine currently , i havent done anything to it after from switching it off for a while and turn back on...


----------



## RenEh

lalawilson168 said:


> whats an EE? but coming back to my unit, It seems like its working fine currently , i havent done anything to it after from switching it off for a while and turn back on...


Electronics Engineer. Good to hear your unit is fine.


----------



## drewbinaj

Flux Amps are friggin' powerhouses for the price. Excited to test one someday


----------



## cangle

Got a Denafrips Pontus II in the mail today. The size match is excellent with the FA-12 amp both from the front as you can see in the picture and also from the top. The FA-12 is a bit smaller in each dimension compared to the Denafrips dac so it sits nicely on top. I've only listened for a bit but coming from the ADI-2 to the Pontus II I think I'm hearing some more details especially with female vocals and the sound feels more lively. I'll try and add some more impressions later especially if I go back to the ADI-2 so I can let people know what sort of difference you can expect when pairing with the FA-12.


----------



## Terriero

cangle said:


> Got a Denafrips Pontus II in the mail today. The size match is excellent with the FA-12 amp both from the front as you can see in the picture and also from the top. The FA-12 is a bit smaller in each dimension compared to the Denafrips dac so it sits nicely on top. I've only listened for a bit but coming from the ADI-2 to the Pontus II I think I'm hearing some more details especially with female vocals and the sound feels more lively. I'll try and add some more impressions later especially if I go back to the ADI-2 so I can let people know what sort of difference you can expect when pairing with the FA-12.


I'm very interested in your impressions... I would like to make a similar combo with Pontus 2 and Volot, if it ever be released and if my economy allows it...

The problem will be Volot size, I will have to put them separated, and not in a stack.


----------



## haasaaroni

saadi703 said:


> I do





cfranchi said:


> How do they sing together ?


I'm also interested to hear! I'm trying to decide between the HE6se and Arya now, and then also between the FA-12 and FA-10 depending on which route I take  I would assume the FA-10 is the way to go for the HE6se obviously...


----------



## Dionysus

Circling back to this thread, been a little. I received a brand new volume control part from Flux in the mail out of the blue. I had an intermittent issue when I first purchased my FA-12, but never after that first day. I did replace it, thinking it was maybe a faulty design and they shipped me a replacement for that reason.
After further inspection they are exactly the same, its a very small part, and it's been working flawlessly, as before I replaced it.


----------



## gancanjam (May 16, 2021)

cangle said:


> I'm curious if anyone has used the Abyss 1266 with the FA-12? Obviously the FA-10 would be a better pairing but as I'm considering getting a 1266 and already have a FA-12 I wonder if spending the extra $$ on a FA-10 is worth it.
> 
> I posted in the past about driving the HE6-SE with the FA-12 and how I was able to get sufficient volume. Since the HE6-SE is harder to drive than the 1266 on paper I'm more interested if the FA-12 will give enough power to the 1266 for dynamics, impact, etc. instead of just playing music loud enough.



I don't own FA-12 but I know it is around 2.5W. I doubt you will get the most from Abyss 1266 from 2.5W in terms of Bass depth/dynamics etc. as it requires a lot of headroom. Since you already have FA-12, would recommend to pair with Abyss 1266 first to see if it works well and if does not then you can buy another powerful amp.


----------



## cangle

gancanjam said:


> I don't own FA-12 but I know it is around 2.5W. I doubt you will get the most from Abyss 1266 from 2.5 Amp in terms of Bass depth/dynamics etc. as it requires a lot of headroom. Since you already have FA-12, would recommend to pair with Abyss 1266 first to see if it works well and if does not then you can buy another powerful amp.


Yeah I agree with you on this. I reached out to Abyss and they said that the 1266 scales with head room but I should be able to get sufficient volume out of it since I was able to use the HE6-SE with the FA-12 without issue. I think, like you suggested, that I will wait to see how the 1266 sounds out of the FA-12 before deciding if I want a more powerful amp or not. I have other amps that do up to 6w but they don't seem to have the current that planars like. I used to use the HE6-SE with the THX 789 which does 6w at 32 ohms but using it on the FA-12 feels like this amp is driving it better I'm guessing due to the class A design.

Also I asked Vitaliy what he thought about the FA-10 or FA-10 pro. He said that he prefers pairing the FA-10 pro with an r2r dac as the FA-10 with an r2r dac could be too warm but obviously this is a very subjective decision. However if I end up with an FA-10 for use with the 1266 it would probably be the pro model. Also he said lead time for the FA-10 pro to ship is 1 week.


----------



## gancanjam (May 16, 2021)

cangle said:


> Yeah I agree with you on this. I reached out to Abyss and they said that the 1266 scales with head room but I should be able to get sufficient volume out of it since I was able to use the HE6-SE with the FA-12 without issue. I think, like you suggested, that I will wait to see how the 1266 sounds out of the FA-12 before deciding if I want a more powerful amp or not. I have other amps that do up to 6w but they don't seem to have the current that planars like. I used to use the HE6-SE with the THX 789 which does 6w at 32 ohms but using it on the FA-12 feels like this amp is driving it better I'm guessing due to the class A design.
> 
> Also I asked Vitaliy what he thought about the FA-10 or FA-10 pro. He said that he prefers pairing the FA-10 pro with an r2r dac as the FA-10 with an r2r dac could be too warm but obviously this is a very subjective decision. However if I end up with an FA-10 for use with the 1266 it would probably be the pro model. Also he said lead time for the FA-10 pro to ship is 1 week.


THX 789 with 6W also can drive Abyss 1266 but it may not be on the same technicality level as Abyss 1266 but I do know friends who are contented with this pairing.

Apart from Power, one other point to consider here is the sound signature.  I have used 1266 with Neutral transparent amp like Simaudio Moon Neo 430 as well as with Class A Musical, slightly warmer amp like FCN-10.  IMO 1266 shines for someone who wants engaging extremes in Bass and Treble so I don't consider this as easy listening, a Neutral amp like Moon Neo 430 accentuates 1266 Bass and Treble to double down and especially if there is Treble in the song then you will hear it loud & clear. I am a "Give me  more" kind of a guy so I thoroughly like this pairing though this pairing is not for hours of listening to my ears which can tire out after 1-2 hours. But FA-10 is going to keep a check in the Treble area of 1266 and make it for longer listening while still not rolling off the  Treble. FA-12 will be bit more warmer than FA-10 , an R2R DAC can add even more warmth to keep 1266 Treble on leash so you can assess how FA-10 will sound with 1266 once listened to FA-12/R2R. All the best !


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Posted this elsewhere but thought it fitting to share here


----------



## paradoxper

gancanjam said:


> I don't own FA-12 but I know it is around 2.5W. I doubt you will get the most from Abyss 1266 from 2.5W in terms of Bass depth/dynamics etc. as it requires a lot of headroom. Since you already have FA-12, would recommend to pair with Abyss 1266 first to see if it works well and if does not then you can buy another powerful amp.


Best to shoot for 5 watts. 8-ish at the sweet spot. But really there is no exact hard-fast rule. Some whom like the tube characteristic may not like current feedback amplifiers.


----------



## cangle

Relaxasaurus said:


> Posted this elsewhere but thought it fitting to share here


Very nice, just saw your video. You mentioned the FA-12 S is on the top but what Flux amp is on the bottom?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

cangle said:


> Very nice, just saw your video. You mentioned the FA-12 S is on the top but what Flux amp is on the bottom?



Thanks, the bottom is the FA-10. Curious how they compared to each other


----------



## haasaaroni

Relaxasaurus said:


> Thanks, the bottom is the FA-10. Curious how they compared to each other


I’m curious to hear your thoughts! Is that the space gray color panel on the FA-10? Looks sleek 😎 I’m thinking of changing my order to have that faceplate now 😂


----------



## cfranchi

haasaaroni said:


> I'm also interested to hear! I'm trying to decide between the HE6se and Arya now, and then also between the FA-12 and FA-10 depending on which route I take  I would assume the FA-10 is the way to go for the HE6se obviously...



I have ordered HE1000 v2 from Hifiman, I had a good price (1800 EUR) for a brand new headphone but in a generic package (no wooden box, no manual).

I’ll tell you how they sing with my Flux FCN10.


----------



## haasaaroni

cfranchi said:


> I have ordered HE1000 v2 from Hifiman, I had a good price (1800 EUR) for a brand new headphone but in a generic package (no wooden box, no manual).
> 
> I’ll tell you how they sing with my Flux FCN10.


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! I did end up ordering the FA-10 on the advice of Viacheslav at FluxLab. Wasn’t quite ready to ditch my Bifrost 2 in favor of another DAC yet to make the jump to the FCN-10.


----------



## cfranchi

haasaaroni said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! I did end up ordering the FA-10 on the advice of Viacheslav at FluxLab. Wasn’t quite ready to ditch my Bifrost 2 in favor of another DAC yet to make the jump to the FCN-10.


You’ll be quite happy with FA-10, I see that you have finally HE6se ?


----------



## haasaaroni

cfranchi said:


> You’ll be quite happy with FA-10, I see that you have finally HE6se ?


Right now I still have both the HE6se and Arya. I have until June 2nd to decide if I want to return the Arya. Right now I'm actually leaning towards the Arya and selling the He6se, mostly for the soundstage, but hopefully the FA-10 gets here before then so I can hear which I like better.


----------



## cfranchi

haasaaroni said:


> Right now I still have both the HE6se and Arya. I have until June 2nd to decide if I want to return the Arya. Right now I'm actually leaning towards the Arya and selling the He6se, mostly for the soundstage, but hopefully the FA-10 gets here before then so I can hear which I like better.



Interesting, I’m wondering if HEK may replace my HE6se… what I love about HE6se is the tonality and timbre, so lifelike and with great impact. Except soundstage what do you prefer in Arya ?


----------



## haasaaroni (May 19, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> Interesting, I’m wondering if HEK may replace my HE6se… what I love about HE6se is the tonality and timbre, so lifelike and with great impact. Except soundstage what do you prefer in Arya ?


Honestly, kinda nothing! The soundstage is more spacious and immersive with much larger images (which I love for movies), and the forward depth is much more clear and accurate imaging-wise. Like if you're listening to a symphony, you can easily tell apart the woodwind section and each players distinct location. It's a little flatter with the HE6se.

The bass is also a good bit warmer on the Arya as well. But you're right, the timbre, impact, and tonality of the HE6 is the best I've ever heard in a planar.

Edit: Forgot about the comfort! Way, way better on the Arya.


----------



## cfranchi

haasaaroni said:


> Honestly, kinda nothing! The soundstage is more spacious and immersive with much larger images (which I love for movies), and the forward depth is much more clear and accurate imaging-wise. Like if you're listening to a symphony, you can easily tell apart the woodwind section and each players distinct location. It's a little flatter with the HE6se.
> 
> The bass is also a good bit warmer on the Arya as well. But you're right, the timbre, impact, and tonality of the HE6 is the best I've ever heard in a planar.
> 
> Edit: Forgot about the comfort! Way, way better on the Arya.


Are you amping HE6se with liquid platinum ? It delivers 3.6w @50 ohm, should be enough I guess (FA-10 is 10.5w @50 ohm) : I’m curious to hear your comparison, maybe having both will not be necessary.


----------



## Honeypot (May 21, 2021)

Hi guys. Fa-12 user here. I've been a little disconnected from the forum due to work...

I was today listening to some music, and about 30min after turning the amp on, the left driver stopped sounding. I did some troubleshooting and connected the headphones to another amp to see if it was headphones or amp....
The headphones worked, so i plugged back the headphones into the fa12, shut down the unit, and turned it back up. 
It's been working fine since then, about 2hours. Should I worry?
What can be the reason behind this channel going off suddenly?

Thanks!


----------



## cangle

Honeypot said:


> Hi guys. Fa-12 user here. I've been a little disconnected from the forum due to work...
> 
> I was today listening to some music, and about 30min after turning the amp on, the left driver stopped sounding. I did some troubleshooting and connected the headphones to another amp to see if it was headphones or amp....
> The headphones worked, so i plugged back the headphones into the fa12, shut down the unit, and turned it back up.
> ...


Did you check the wiring on the headphone like if the left and right cables were securely connected to the headphone? Also could have been that the headphone cable was not all the way inserted into the connection on the amp. Hopefully it wasn't the amp but let us know if it happens again or if you figure it out.


----------



## Honeypot

Its first time I experience a channel going off on any of my amps....

I rapidly tested on an amp i have right next to the flux and headphones were ok. when I connected back to the flux the left channel remained off.
Only after power cycle it brought back the sound.

It wasn't the headphones...
I am 100% Shure it was the amp. 

I'm still listening to it without a hiccup.
If it happens again, I'll contact Flux.

Anybody with electronic knowledge can explain the event?


----------



## lalawilson168

I have and reported it, it kind of went away when I switched it off n left it off for 30 mins. It hasn’t happened again so far


----------



## haasaaroni

cfranchi said:


> Are you amping HE6se with liquid platinum ? It delivers 3.6w @50 ohm, should be enough I guess (FA-10 is 10.5w @50 ohm) : I’m curious to hear your comparison, maybe having both will not be necessary



Yeah I’m using the HE6se with the LP. Except that one day I plugged both the HE6se and Arya into my jumper-installed Emotiva and *holy crap* did the sound take leaps forward...on both! Maybe even more so with the Arya. The FA-10 just shipped, and I can’t wait to hear what it does to them. 10.5w is a crazy amount of power, I think it puts out even more than the Emotiva Basx A-100 into 50 ohms.


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

haasaaroni said:


> Yeah I’m using the HE6se with the LP. Except that one day I plugged both the HE6se and Arya into my jumper-installed Emotiva and *holy crap* did the sound take leaps forward...on both! Maybe even more so with the Arya. The FA-10 just shipped, and I can’t wait to hear what it does to them. 10.5w is a crazy amount of power, I think it puts out even more than the Emotiva Basx A-100 into 50 ohms


Interesting.  The BasX A100 has long been viewed as the most powerful headphone amp that you can purchase
for the money (with the jumpers installed).  And it is very close power wise to the FA10, for about $250 delivered (5 year factory warranty I believe).

Will be very interested to hear your  impressions of how the FA10 and A100 compare using the aforementioned headphones.


----------



## Terriero

cangle said:


> Did you check the wiring on the headphone like if the left and right cables were securely connected to the headphone? Also could have been that the headphone cable was not all the way inserted into the connection on the amp. Hopefully it wasn't the amp but let us know if it happens again or if you figure it out.


Now that you have been using your combo (Pontus 2 + FA12) during some time... What do you think of that combo? What about sinergy with your HD 800S? Thanks in advance.


----------



## cangle (May 25, 2021)

Terriero said:


> Now that you have been using your combo (Pontus 2 + FA12) during some time... What do you think of that combo? What about synergy with your HD 800S? Thanks in advance.


Thanks for the reminder, I forgot to post my impressions of that combo. I've been really happy with it so far. I do think it took some time to warm up but maybe just 1-2 days not the 10 days that was recommended to me. However, it's been about 10 days so the performance of the dac definitely shouldn't be changing. Also last week I got a pi2aes in the mail which I am now using as a roon endpoint outputting music over i2s to the pontus ii.

Compared to the ADI-2 and the FA-12 the sound with the Pontus II is more lively with better bass clarity, texture, and slam. The detail retrieval seems to be a bit better in the treble region especially with female vocals and the other difference I've picked up on is a wider sense of space in the music I listen to. Even on the LCD-4z which isn't really known for having a wide soundstage, the sound is definitely wider however I still don't notice much depth to the sound but that could be more of an issue with the headphones I have or what I am expecting when I refer to depth.

I haven't been listening to the 800S much as switching between the 4z and the 800S can be a bit of an adjustment so in the past couple weeks since receiving this dac I would say the 800S has been about 20% of my listening time. I think with the Pontus II that the sound of the 800S has become a bit more full. It still sounds kind of thin to me especially compared to the 4z but now vocals have more body to them and the low end sounds a bit better too. If you find that your setup makes the 800S sound sort of clinical or you are just looking for more warmth then I would say that the Pontus II is a good option. I'm going to listen to the 800S some tonight and if I notice anything else I'll let you know.

Edit: Been listening to 800S on the pontus ii, fa-12 combo since I posted this response and one other thing I notice is that I don't get fatigued as much by the 800S as I used to. Probably a result of a smoother treble presentation from the pontus ii. It's definitely not lacking in detail though. Also I think the imaging is a bit more precise with this dac but again I'm not getting much depth (music is not coming from in front of me it's still mostly in my head sounding mostly for vocals)


----------



## Terriero

Thank you very much. I hope you don't forget your other headphones when you receive the 1266s


----------



## cfranchi (May 27, 2021)

haasaaroni said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! I did end up ordering the FA-10 on the advice of Viacheslav at FluxLab. Wasn’t quite ready to ditch my Bifrost 2 in favor of another DAC yet to make the jump to the FCN-10.



So I have received HEK v2, I’m burn-in it for 200 hours as it seems that it really affect HEK sound (bottom end extension and clean treble from what I have read at Headfonics).

HEK is a really beautiful headphone, massive but light, don’t know why people complain about build quality. Confort is top notch, it just disappear (I have headspot with my HE6se).

I initially listened to HEK at medium gain (FCN-10) : sound was soft and nice (12 o clock), spacious but not HD800s level (but far more coherent). Then I turn up the volume at 1 o clock (sound level was still acceptable for me, I listen medium-loud generally) HEK became more engaging but still behind HE6se immediateness. Then I decided to use high gain, 12 o clock, and now dynamic is far far better, its funny how Flux amp can work because I’m high gain at 1 oclock with HE6se so I was quite surprised…

More A/B comparison with HEK and HE6se (high gain) show me that HEK is not a slow or laid back headphone, a bit behind HE6se but not that far from what I expected. Timbre are great on both : HE6se a bit more robust, HEK a bit more diffuse. I have great hope after burn-in (it really changed my Sundara, far more cleaner).

Last, HEK is very open and airy, you can hear them like small speaker when they play music. Compared to HE6se it is definitely more spacious and open but HE6se is good in term of  soundstage, not an intimate headphone.

HEK is a very good headphone, I was worried about timbre and dynamic but it is there. Very spacious and more coherent than HD800s (but not as wide) : however far more musical than 800s. Confort is top notch and it is an eye catching headphone, my HE6se look cheap by comparison.


----------



## cangle

The Volot was released today. I know there's a separate thread for the Volot but thought I'd post the link here too in case some of you have not seen it yet. https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/volot-dual-mono-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

cangle said:


> The Volot was released today. I know there's a separate thread for the Volot but thought I'd post the link here too in case some of you have not seen it yet. https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/volot-dual-mono-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


Been waiting for this for awhile.  Thanks for the heads up!  The Volot looks like a beauty!


----------



## cfranchi

I wonder what coud be the difference of volot vs fa10 : same watt provided, same voltage provided.
Hope to get comparison quickly.


----------



## manishex

They said the Volot has 2.5x more current or some type of current, maybe less voltage as a result. There's 4 gain modes now, the lowest being lower and the highest being higher than the fa-10


----------



## Rebel Chris

Hmmm a nice colored face plate is soo tempting 🤣


----------



## cfranchi

manishex said:


> They said the Volot has 2.5x more current or some type of current, maybe less voltage as a result. There's 4 gain modes now, the lowest being lower and the highest being higher than the fa-10



2.5x more current… that will be impressive with planars!


----------



## PhazeCrive (Jun 1, 2021)

Would the Fa 10 or 12 be better with the Arya? I would get Volot but I am but a peon. I'll save that for my eventual upgrade to the 1266...but if the reviews are nice and someone suggests hold off for the Volot instead...then perhaps I could save.


----------



## Relaxasaurus (Jun 1, 2021)

PhazeCrive said:


> Would the Fa 10 or 12 be better with the Arya? I would get Volot but I am but a peon. I'll save that for my eventual upgrade to the 1266...but if the reviews are nice and someone suggests hold off for the Volot instead...then perhaps I could save.



I vote the FA-12 with its more mid-forward presentation, good match with the Arya. I have the FA-10 and 12S here, any song(s) you'd like me to test in particular?

Edit- going back & forth with the Arya and the two amps on "Save Your Tears" by The Weeknd. The FA-10 always surprises me each time with its clarity and power. The FA-12S does have a more natural timbre to the mids and voices are closer and more intimate but I can't deny how much fun the FA-10 is. Super crisp highs with excellent layering & separation.

If you want energy, better dynamics, and "fun" the FA-10 is it. If you value better textured, intimate mids, and longer listening sessions then you may prefer the FA-12/S. I wish I had the FA-12 to compare against as it's the only one that's fully balanced. The Arya may benefit from the 4 discrete amps.


----------



## haasaaroni

Relaxasaurus said:


> I vote the FA-12 with its more mid-forward presentation, good match with the Arya. I have the FA-10 and 12S here, any song(s) you'd like me to test in particular?
> 
> Edit- going back & forth with the Arya and the two amps on "Save Your Tears" by The Weeknd. The FA-10 always surprises me each time with its clarity and power. The FA-12S does have a more natural timbre to the mids and voices are closer and more intimate but I can't deny how much fun the FA-10 is. Super crisp highs with excellent layering & separation.
> 
> If you want energy, better dynamics, and "fun" the FA-10 is it. If you value better textured, intimate mids, and longer listening sessions then you may prefer the FA-12/S. I wish I had the FA-12 to compare against as it's the only one that's fully balanced. The Arya may benefit from the 4 discrete amps.


Awesome, that's pretty much what Viacheslav at Fluxlab told me. I wrote asking them which amp would be better for the Arya/HE6se, mostly for classical music, and for soundstage, instrument separation, and linearity, he recommended the FA-10. I'm loving the FA-10/Arya combo so far...though I'm still getting to know it.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Relaxasaurus said:


> I vote the FA-12 with its more mid-forward presentation, good match with the Arya. I have the FA-10 and 12S here, any song(s) you'd like me to test in particular?
> 
> Edit- going back & forth with the Arya and the two amps on "Save Your Tears" by The Weeknd. The FA-10 always surprises me each time with its clarity and power. The FA-12S does have a more natural timbre to the mids and voices are closer and more intimate but I can't deny how much fun the FA-10 is. Super crisp highs with excellent layering & separation.
> 
> If you want energy, better dynamics, and "fun" the FA-10 is it. If you value better textured, intimate mids, and longer listening sessions then you may prefer the FA-12/S. I wish I had the FA-12 to compare against as it's the only one that's fully balanced. The Arya may benefit from the 4 discrete amps.


Thanks. Like basically which throws out the soundstage a bit more, has a bit more impact in the bass, layering.

I think I may have answered my own question there lol. FA-10 might be it until I aquire a Volot.

I'd rather not be publicly gutted for revealing what kind of *weeb music *I listen to though.


----------



## The Hawk

PhazeCrive said:


> Would the Fa 10 or 12 be better with the Arya? I would get Volot but I am but a peon. I'll save that for my eventual upgrade to the 1266...but if the reviews are nice and someone suggests hold off for the Volot instead...then perhaps I could save.


Maybe the answer is to wait for the FA-22 which Flux touts as having the transparency and dynamics of the FA-10PRO with the warmth and fullness of the FA-12 low frequency range


----------



## haasaaroni (Jun 1, 2021)

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Interesting.  The BasX A100 has long been viewed as the most powerful headphone amp that you can purchase
> for the money (with the jumpers installed).  And it is very close power wise to the FA10, for about $250 delivered (5 year factory warranty I believe).
> 
> Will be very interested to hear your  impressions of how the FA10 and A100 compare using the aforementioned headphones.


Ok, so going back and forth between the FA-10 and Emotiva BasX A-100 (jumpers installed) now. It's very interesting!

First I plugged the Arya's into the Emotiva, and there is a slight hiss from the amp, which is no fun. Then I was wowed with the soundstage it produced, and the warmth in the midrange. I haven't tried much vintage gear, but this is what I imagine it sounds like. Conversely, pluggin into the FA-10 is like listening to the *future* with more detail and a slightly thinner (perhaps more realistic) presentation. But after going back and forth between with the FA-10 and Emotiva a few times, the differences became even more obvious. Blackness of background is astonishing on the FA-10, and staging, imaging, dynamics, and detail are also much better. The Emotiva throws sound in front of you more, but is significantly less layered and resolving.

At first it also seemed like the Emotiva had a wider stage, but then I realized that because of the detail of the FA-10, sounds seemed closer to me, but only because details are so much more easily heard, and pack a better punch. So while the Emotiva showed everything from a sort of hazy, warm distance, the FA-10 keeps that same distance, while also enhancing the imaging and detail retrieval times over. The sound images, while also being much more accurately placed (if you know where instruments are supposed to be in an orchestra for example), are also much larger and life-like.

It's really no contest, as it shouldn't be at the different price points. I guess I was expecting a more subtle difference, because you know...diminishing returns...but NOPE. Being a contradictory creature, I do miss the midrange warmth from the Emotiva, but the realness and transparency of the FA-10 is something I don't want to live without.


----------



## Slim1970

haasaaroni said:


> Ok, so going back and forth between the FA-10 and Emotiva BasX A-100 (jumpers installed) now. It's very interesting!
> 
> First I plugged the Arya's into the Emotiva, and there is a slight hiss from the amp, which is no fun. Then I was wowed with the soundstage it produced, and the warmth in the midrange. I haven't tried much vintage gear, but this is what I imagine it sounds like. Conversely, pluggin into the FA-10 is like listening to the *future* with more detail and a slightly thinner (perhaps more realistic) presentation. But after going back and forth between with the FA-10 and Emotiva a few times, the differences became even more obvious. Blackness of background is astonishing on the FA-10, and staging, imaging, dynamics, and detail are also much better. The Emotiva throws sound in front of you more, but is significantly less layered and resolving.
> 
> ...


The FA-10 is built like a power amp and that's why the sound is very comparable to them. I had a similar experience when going back an forth between my Burson Timekeeper and modded FA-10. After that test, I didn't see a reason to use a power amp to drive any of my headphones, including my Susvara's and HE6se's. The FA-10 handled them with relative ease with a more fulfilling sound quality. I really like how the FA-10 fills in the midrange on headphones. The dynamics and punch is just off the charts.


----------



## dermott

haasaaroni said:


> Ok, so going back and forth between the FA-10 and Emotiva BasX A-100 (jumpers installed) now. It's very interesting!
> 
> First I plugged the Arya's into the Emotiva, and there is a slight hiss from the amp, which is no fun. Then I was wowed with the soundstage it produced, and the warmth in the midrange. I haven't tried much vintage gear, but this is what I imagine it sounds like. Conversely, pluggin into the FA-10 is like listening to the *future* with more detail and a slightly thinner (perhaps more realistic) presentation. But after going back and forth between with the FA-10 and Emotiva a few times, the differences became even more obvious. Blackness of background is astonishing on the FA-10, and staging, imaging, dynamics, and detail are also much better. The Emotiva throws sound in front of you more, but is significantly less layered and resolving.
> 
> ...


Maybe this is where the FA-12 fits (goldilocks amp)?


----------



## haasaaroni

dermott said:


> Maybe this is where the FA-12 fits (goldilocks amp)?


Possibly! But shipping costs a lot on these amps, and the FA-10 does some amazing things on its own. I figure I’ve got tubes and an Aeolus when I want warmth, so I think I’ll stay where I am


----------



## dermott

haasaaroni said:


> Possibly! But shipping costs a lot on these amps, and the FA-10 does some amazing things on its own. I figure I’ve got tubes and an Aeolus when I want warmth, so I think I’ll stay where I am


Saw in the Volot thread that shipping costs have been wonky lately. Do we know what is the current $ range is for delivery of a FA-10/12 to US?

RE: the Arya specifically, I am considering getting it. Do you think it is even possible to "warm it up"?


----------



## haasaaroni

dermott said:


> Saw in the Volot thread that shipping costs have been wonky lately. Do we know what is the current $ range is for delivery of a FA-10/12 to US?
> 
> RE: the Arya specifically, I am considering getting it. Do you think it is even possible to "warm it up"?


That's a good question. I still haven't spent much time with mine, but I assume it is. I was using a WA6-SE for my Ananda and it added some good (subtle) mid range warmth. Unfortunately, it made the presentation even softer and more distant, which took from its already weak sense of impact. In my experience so far, adding warmth to a planar headphone has the possibility to compress the soundstage somewhat, especially when using EQ. On 300ohm Sennheisers, an OTL tube amp is somehow able to expand the soundstage while also adding warmth AND impact, but I haven't been able to find an amp that does the same for Hifimans and the like...at least in this price bracket 

As per your other question, I paid $100 to ship the FA-10 with UPS from Ukraine to California. It somehow only took 3 business days. If you go to check the amp out on their website, you should see the shipping options.


----------



## sahmen

haasaaroni said:


> but I haven't been able to find an amp that does the same for Hifimans and the like...at least in this price bracket


Surprising, unless my FA-10 has been lying to me about how much warmth, impact, slam, fullness, Soundstage, extension, air, musicality, and hours of fatigue-free listening it has been extracting out of my Hifiman Susvara regularly...Of course, YMMV, but if you feel I have definitely misunderstood something, kindly let me know. I'm here to learn too


----------



## haasaaroni

sahmen said:


> Surprising, unless my FA-10 has been lying to me about how much warmth, impact, slam, fullness, Soundstage, extension, air, musicality, and hours of fatigue-free listening it has been extracting out of my Hifiman Susvara regularly...Of course, YMMV, but if you feel I have definitely misunderstood something, kindly let me know. I'm here to learn too


Not at all! You know, I was actually just listening to my setup earlier and was thinking the same thing. Nothing is missing. Can't imagine how the Susvara sounds on the FA-10 though...must be bliss!


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

haasaaroni said:


> Not at all! You know, I was actually just listening to my setup earlier and was thinking the same thing. Nothing is missing. Can't imagine how the Susvara sounds on the FA-10 though...must be bliss!



With the quest to find a headphone system that really pleases,  I always enjoy it when a fellow enthusiast matches the right components in order to achieve  sonic bliss.  😊


----------



## sahmen

For those who might be interested, I am thinking of listing my beloved caps-modded FA-10 for sale in preparation for other equipment upgrades. The modding of the caps was done by @ksorota, and it had a nice transformative effect on the sound. It drives all my cans superbly, as one would expect, particularly my Susvaras and LCD-4s

However, since I got my Pathos InPol Ear, the FA-10 is suddenly feeling a little lonely and idle, which is a pity given what it can do. Anyway, I am announcing it here first since this is where I expect posters and readers to be familiar with the caps-mod and its effect. Got to find a new and welcome home for this bad boy.


----------



## cangle

Looks like the 1266 that I ordered is arriving tomorrow. I had hoped that the Volot would get here first but that's not due for another 2-3 weeks at least so in the mean time I will power them off of the FA-12 since that is the best amp at my disposal.

I will post some impressions of the pairing especially in terms of how it drives the Abyss headphone and eventually if it can compete with something like the Volot that should drive them much better. I'm looking forward to seeing how big of a difference there will be with a demanding headphone like the 1266 between the FA-12 and the Volot. I will do my best to post impressions of this process.


----------



## cfranchi

cangle said:


> Looks like the 1266 that I ordered is arriving tomorrow. I had hoped that the Volot would get here first but that's not due for another 2-3 weeks at least so in the mean time I will power them off of the FA-12 since that is the best amp at my disposal.
> 
> I will post some impressions of the pairing especially in terms of how it drives the Abyss headphone and eventually if it can compete with something like the Volot that should drive them much better. I'm looking forward to seeing how big of a difference there will be with a demanding headphone like the 1266 between the FA-12 and the Volot. I will do my best to post impressions of this process.



Given your headphones you should have taken FA10 instead of FA12. I’m curious about your impressions of the Volot, I have FCN10 and wonder about the Volot.


----------



## Slim1970

cfranchi said:


> Given your headphones you should have taken FA10 instead of FA12. I’m curious about your impressions of the Volot, I have FCN10 and wonder about the Volot.


Agreed, the FA-10 is the better choice for the TC's


----------



## cangle

cfranchi said:


> Given your headphones you should have taken FA10 instead of FA12. I’m curious about your impressions of the Volot, I have FCN10 and wonder about the Volot.


When I ordered the FA-12 I had not planned on purchasing the 1266 and my main headphone was the LCD-4z so at the time that was why I chose the 12 over the 10. If I were to do it again I would probably have picked up the 10 pro since after the 12 arrived I purchased both the 800S and the 1266. Anyways I am sure the Volot will be a nice step up over either the 12 or 10 so I'm looking forward to hearing how that sounds. BTW the 1266 arrived.


----------



## cfranchi

cangle said:


> When I ordered the FA-12 I had not planned on purchasing the 1266 and my main headphone was the LCD-4z so at the time that was why I chose the 12 over the 10. If I were to do it again I would probably have picked up the 10 pro since after the 12 arrived I purchased both the 800S and the 1266. Anyways I am sure the Volot will be a nice step up over either the 12 or 10 so I'm looking forward to hearing how that sounds. BTW the 1266 arrived.



I’m also interested to see how Volot will handle your he6se.


----------



## cangle

cfranchi said:


> I’m also interested to see how Volot will handle your he6se.


Yeah I'm interested in seeing how the 6se scales with a powerful amp. This will be the first time I've really powered them properly. I also want to see if the Ether CX benefit from more power.


----------



## gancanjam

cangle said:


> When I ordered the FA-12 I had not planned on purchasing the 1266 and my main headphone was the LCD-4z so at the time that was why I chose the 12 over the 10. If I were to do it again I would probably have picked up the 10 pro since after the 12 arrived I purchased both the 800S and the 1266. Anyways I am sure the Volot will be a nice step up over either the 12 or 10 so I'm looking forward to hearing how that sounds. BTW the 1266 arrived.


looking forward for 1266 + FA-12 & Volot impressions   1266 is a great HP


----------



## Fafner

Waiting for a Volot to feed my AB1266 Phi TC as well. Let's hope they ship it as expected and that UPS won't need an ice age to deliver it.


----------



## cangle (Jun 17, 2021)

Using the 1266 has been good so far out of the Flux FA-12. I can listen at medium gain around 2-4 o'clock and high gain around 1-3 o'clock. I'm moving the volume knob higher than I am comfortable doing but I'm sure it's just fine as there is no audible distortion or any weird behavior. The fit of the 1266 was a bit of an odd process but watching the Abyss youtube fit video helped and I have it sitting comfortably on my head in a way that seems to maximize the bass performance.

It's hard to say what I'm missing out on until the Volot arrives but my initial impressions were that the 1266 sounded technically better in most ways than the LCD-4z but with a similar tonality. The treble is airy like the 800S, imaging is very precise. mids are nice (maybe a little thinner than the 4z), and bass is powerful and controlled. On some songs with more of a sub bass presence I feel like I'm not getting the bass impact and texture that I was expecting so maybe a more powerful amp will fix this. Just wanted to report that the pairing of the 1266 and FA-12 is going well so far but I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Volot to give the 1266 the power that everyone says they need.

Edit: The sub bass issue was partially fixed by decreasing the gap between the pads and my ears. I had too much of a gap which was causing the bass to behave badly. Now the sub bass presence is better but I still think the Volot will take the bass and overall performance of the 1266 to another level.


----------



## gancanjam

cangle said:


> Using the 1266 has been good so far out of the Flux FA-12. I can listen at medium gain around 2-4 o'clock and high gain around 1-3 o'clock. I'm moving the volume knob higher than I am comfortable doing but I'm sure it's just fine as there is no audible distortion or any weird behavior. The fit of the 1266 was a bit of an odd process but watching the Abyss youtube fit video helped and I have it sitting comfortably on my head in a way that seems to maximize the bass performance.
> 
> It's hard to say what I'm missing out on until the Volot arrives but my initial impressions were that the 1266 sounded technically better in most ways than the LCD-4z but with a similar tonality. The treble is airy like the 800S, imaging is very precise. mids are nice (maybe a little thinner than the 4z), and bass is powerful and controlled. On some songs with more of a sub bass presence I feel like I'm not getting the bass impact and texture that I was expecting so maybe a more powerful amp will fix this. Just wanted to report that the pairing of the 1266 and FA-12 is going well so far but I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Volot to give the 1266 the power that everyone says they need.



You are right, if 1266 is not giving the Bass oomph then gotta be the need of more juice .. Volot hopefully should fix it ! Very interested in Volot impressions too


----------



## Lohb

Anyone in the UK selling their FA-12S please send me a PM. 
Owned FA-10 previously, and wanted to give it a try also before looking at FA-10 Pro.

One thing I found with FA-10 was lack of volume dial after at about 1pm on the pot..went from medium to too loud on my main cans if I remember. The incline seemed too steep after a certain point. Wonder if that would be across the board with these amps.


----------



## cangle

Lohb said:


> One thing I found with FA-10 was lack of volume dial after at about 1pm on the pot..went from medium to too loud on my main cans if I remember. The incline seemed too steep after a certain point. Wonder if that would be across the board with these amps.


My FA-12 behaves similarly although it has less power so it probably is less of a noticeable issue. The volume is exponential in how it adds gain (to my ears). 0-12 is not much difference except with iems and 12 and after the volume ramps quickly


----------



## cfranchi (Jun 17, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> So I have received HEK v2, I’m burn-in it for 200 hours as it seems that it really affect HEK sound (bottom end extension and clean treble from what I have read at Headfonics).
> 
> HEK is a really beautiful headphone, massive but light, don’t know why people complain about build quality. Confort is top notch, it just disappear (I have headspot with my HE6se).
> 
> ...



I took more time with my HE1000 v2 and HE6se v2, I have to say that I have a slight preference for HE6se v2, it has a more direct connection with music, it is a bit more coherent, HE1000 v2 is a great headphone however.

I learnt also some things : HE1000 v2 loves power, I’m sure HE6se can scale greater : even don’t know if Volot would be enough….


----------



## Rebel Chris

Today I bought a F22, couldn't resist the bright yellow color.  It's a combination of the F10/F12 sound. Curious how it sounds with my Grado's.

Is it possible to have the XLR and RCA inputs connected at the same time?


----------



## Fafner

Rebel Chris said:


> Today I bought a F22, couldn't resist the bright yellow color.  It's a combination of the F10/F12 sound. Curious how it sounds with my Grado's.
> 
> Is it possible to have the XLR and RCA inputs connected at the same time?



I didn't even know it was released. It was spoiled in a FB post some time ago, but there wasn't any further update on it.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Vitialy recommended it for my use with my Grado's. Lucky me


----------



## Fafner

Rebel Chris said:


> Vitialy recommended it for my use with my Grado's. Lucky me



What was the price for it?


----------



## Rebel Chris

753 dollar, with remote and incl. postal


----------



## amele

have anyone try Flux FA10 with Heddphone?


----------



## Ichos

amele said:


> have anyone try Flux FA10 with Heddphone?


I have tried it with FA 12 and FCN 10.
Both are excellent and can drive the Heddphone to its full potential.
Very organic and analogue sound.
FCN 10 is fuller and a bit warmer , FA 12 is more expanded and faster.


----------



## amele

tnx

you can tell me more about the sound (FCN 10) and which DAC you use


----------



## Ichos

I mostly use the FCN 10 with the internal dac.
Kindly have a look at my review of it.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/review/25337/

This is one of the best combo units I have ever heard.
The amp portion as a stand alone unit is equally great.
Class A in its full glory without any negatives.


----------



## amele

tnx I want to buy FA-10 or FA-10 PRO so any information is welcome


----------



## Ichos

amele said:


> tnx I want to buy FA-10 or FA-10 PRO so any information is welcome


The amp inside the FCN -10 is exactly the same as the FA -10 and if I may confess that it is one of the best SS amps I have ever heard.
And class A is very good match with the HEDDphone.


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> The amp inside the FCN -10 is exactly the same as the FA -10 and if I may confess that it is one of the best SS amps I have ever heard.
> And class A is very good match with the HEDDphone.


I'm glad to hear that

what is the bass on the HEDDphone with the FA-10


----------



## Ichos

amele said:


> I'm glad to hear that
> 
> what is the bass on the HEDDphone with the FA-10


Full and dynamic , tight , controlled and well textured.
Quantity is the same of course as the amplifier is dead flat.


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> Full and dynamic , tight , controlled and well textured.
> Quantity is the same of course as the amplifier is dead flat.


can you compare the FA10 with any other amp you have or have heard.
what is best for you with the FA10 HEDDphone combination


----------



## Ichos (Jun 28, 2021)

amele said:


> can you compare the FA10 with any other amp you have or have heard.
> what is best for you with the FA10 HEDDphone combination


This is too much for me because I am short of time.

The FA-10 plays on par with the big boys like Phonitor 2 or Violectric V550.
It may be a little , just a little short in ultimate technicalities like headstage (with the V550) or overall refinement or maybe be last drop resolving of detail or pitch black background with more sensitive headphones but it can stand easily on its own.
And that is without considering the price difference and the huge power reserves.
It is tubey without tubes.
I think that ranks easilly amongst the best.


----------



## amele

tnx very helpfull


----------



## cfranchi

I’m tempting by the speaker amp road but don’t want to invest in a new DAC + preamp, my question is can I use my FCN10 combo as an active pre amp ? Do I miss something ?


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 6, 2021)

I’m more and more tempting to take the road of speaker amp for my HE6se. After trying HE1000 v2 with FCN10 I can definitely say that powerful amp can wake up a headphone. HE1000 has still a sort of laid back sound compared to HE6se (which has more realistic timbre and engagement factor) but after using HE1000 on high gain at around 12+ oclock I’m keen to think that HE6se has room of improvement even if driven from FCN10.

So back to speaker amp and soundnews.net (I tend to trust the review and taste of Sandu) : here is what Sandu wrote about KECES S300 speaker amp and Susvara:

« Hifiman Susvara is such a weird headphone that from five powerful desktop headphone amplifiers at my disposal, only one was able to drive them decent enough. Benchmark HPA4 was shutting itself down when a powerful bass note would appear, even that 16-Watt Flux Lab Acoustics FCN-10 was shutting itself off in some crowded high dynamic range tracks. Sparkos Labs Aries didn’t stand chance with them, being maxed out on SMSL SH-9 was unsatisfactory on some particular music and same can be said about the rest of them. »

Quite frustating… because Sandu made a glowing review of FCN10 and also because I’m particulary impressed by FCN10 driving my HE6se. So more on KECES S300:

« I tried first with S125 power amp and there was a sizable improvement compared to all headphone amplifiers I’ve tried before it. Finally, there was a nicer punch, a better driver control and a deeper and more visceral bass performance.
……….
By far, the best pairing was with Keces S300. I never heard them as alive and as @ss kicking, the little big amp was doing some sweet love with them. Everything was improved compared to all those headphone amplifiers and to S125 and EX-M7 power amplifiers. Headroom left on tap was huge, dynamics were explosive, I was jumping from my chair when some _Infected Mushroom_ started playing. S300 passed this test with flying colors and I can’t say the same about the other two amps sitting on the test bench. »

So KECES S300 is a 3000$ class A/AB amplifier, also you would need a preamp (which can be costly) to use them with your DAC. But here is latest Sandu review about SMSL SA400 speaker amp (600$, class D, *volume control included so no preamp needed*):

« I tried the Susvara out of many integrated and power amplifiers by now and so far, the best pairing was with my own Keces S300 that was always explosive as far as dynamics go, while adding more meat to the bone, boosting midrange presence and tightly controlling their bass down to the lowest notes.

When I’ve moved them to the SMSL SA400, I didn’t know what to expect anymore, but after just a few seconds SA400 felt considerably more powerful to the S300. I couldn’t believe it, but it was pounding even harder, the bass output was out of this world. I don’t think I ever experienced a deeper bass out of any other headphone + amplifier combo. »

I also asked him about FCN10 vs SA400, his answer:

« Hi mate,
I have several top class headphone amplifiers, some of them specifically designed to work outstanding with planar magnetic headphones.
However, when Hifiman Susvara jumps on my head, I'm connecting them only to integrated or power amplifiers...the difference is big, immediate and it's very clear. If you have a chance of trying one, please do...it will blow your mind. »

Well, you know all the story, all of these seems quite nice but I have to test SA400 by myself to be convinced 
I’m really waiting for Sandu review about Volot (I asked him to compare Volot to SA400).

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/smsl-sa400-review-power-overwhelming/


----------



## Fafner

cfranchi said:


> I’m really waiting for Sandu review about Volot (I asked him to compare Volot to SA400).
> 
> https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/smsl-sa400-review-power-overwhelming/




The Volot was supposedly developed with Susvara in mind, thus I'd expect great things. I own a Volot, but unfortunately not the Susvara.


----------



## Rebel Chris

It really amaze me that the susvara and he-6 are so difficult to power. Which amp did Hifiman used when they developed this headphones?

Today my F22 arrived.


----------



## cangle (Jul 6, 2021)

Rebel Chris said:


> It really amaze me that the susvara and he-6 are so difficult to power. Which amp did Hifiman used when they developed this headphones?
> 
> Today my F22 arrived.


Wierd shaped box for the one amp inside. Cool that you got a FA-22 though even though it's not listed on their site yet. I think you are the first person to get one so I look forward to your impressions of it.

Edit: Nevermind about the shape. I thought the box was laying down but now I see that it’s standing up


----------



## Kris_S

For those of you that have a FA-12 how is the heat output? Is it really warm to the touch or just above room temperature?


----------



## Ichos

Kris_S said:


> For those of you that have a FA-12 how is the heat output? Is it really warm to the touch or just above room temperature?


Nowhere near the FA-10 , it gets hot but you can touch it.


----------



## cangle

Kris_S said:


> For those of you that have a FA-12 how is the heat output? Is it really warm to the touch or just above room temperature?


After about 30 minutes of it being on there is noticeable heat near the vents but it never gets to the point of being too hot to touch. I think it’s 10-20 Fahrenheit more than room temperature. I wouldn’t put anything on top of the vents but I’ve used the 12 with an ADI-2 on top of the metal next to the vents without issue.


----------



## haasaaroni

Ichos said:


> Nowhere near the FA-10 , it gets hot but you can touch it.


The FA-10 is no joke. I've been burning in a pair of headphones, and have literally been having a fan blow on my FA-10 to keep it cool while I'm out during the day


----------



## Majors

Rebel Chris said:


> It really amaze me that the susvara and he-6 are so difficult to power. Which amp did Hifiman used when they developed this headphones?
> 
> Today my F22 arrived.


I also ordered the fa-22 on 7-2 and I have a tracking number on 7-8. I look forward to your first impressions.


----------



## Namtar

cangle said:


> Wierd shaped box for the one amp inside. Cool that you got a FA-22 though even though it's not listed on their site yet. I think you are the first person to get one so I look forward to your impressions of it.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind about the shape. I thought the box was laying down but now I see that it’s standing up



I saw it on their website -  must have been a silent launch.   Power output specs: 16 Ohm : 5W RMS per channel, 32 Ohm : 2.5W RMS per channel


----------



## The Hawk

cangle said:


> Wierd shaped box for the one amp inside. Cool that you got a FA-22 though even though it's not listed on their site yet. I think you are the first person to get one so I look forward to your impressions of it.


https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa-22-balance-class-a-head-amplifier/


----------



## Fafner

Namtar said:


> I saw it on their website -  must have been a silent launch.   Power output specs: 16 Ohm : 5W RMS per channel, 32 Ohm : 2.5W RMS per channel


They teased it a while ago on their FB page but there haven't been any updates of it since. Could be they want to push the Volot atm.


----------



## Namtar

They *Just* put it on their FB page and said that intro price of $649 would be available for the rest of the summer XD    What hilarious timing.
I'm kind of interested it it -  I'm hoping there are a few folks who will get it or the FA-10 and also have heard the Jotunheim 1 (what I have now as my primary amp).   If there's a perceivable difference I wouldn't mind upgrading.   Otherwise I'm looking long term to just get the VOLOT as my endgame for all time amp and just be done with that part of the audio chain XD


----------



## XLR2XLR

Kris_S said:


> For those of you that have a FA-12 how is the heat output? Is it really warm to the touch or just above room temperature?


Mine used to run hot, but not anymore.


----------



## Iggnasty

I 


Rebel Chris said:


> It really amaze me that the susvara and he-6 are so difficult to power. Which amp did Hifiman used when they developed this headphones?
> 
> Today my F22 arrived.


Nice! I just ordered one yesterday….


----------



## Roasty

Where does the FA22 fit in the lineup? Couldn't get much from the description on their website.


----------



## Ichos

Roasty said:


> Where does the FA22 fit in the lineup? Couldn't get much from the description on their website.


Since I have been discussing with Vitaliy , let me help a little.

FA-12 true balanced circuit design with a bit more warm sound presentation, bass response is a bit relaxed but deeper.

FA-22 has the most detailed and collected sound, the bass has maximum articulation and speed.
The dynamic range is perceived as the largest in the line and at a low volume the amplifier is able to provide a very decent level of information, everything is heard in a very holistic approach.


----------



## Roasty

Ichos said:


> Since I have been discussing with Vitaliy , let me help a little.
> 
> FA-12 true balanced circuit design with a bit more warm sound presentation, bass response is a bit relaxed but deeper.
> 
> ...



thanks for that useful info!


----------



## sahmen (Jul 12, 2021)

Ichos said:


> Since I have been discussing with Vitaliy , let me help a little.
> 
> FA-12 true balanced circuit design with a bit more warm sound presentation, bass response is a bit relaxed but deeper.
> 
> ...


Does it also have the grunt and (Class A) power of the FA-10, I mean the power to handle hard-to-drive planars as well as the latter does or oven handle them better?

Ok never mind.  I got the answer I was looking for from here:

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/produ...P8CTsH9cv7n1jmvyTDb4Txe-gDQ6si1-iBnYoK236w21c



Output power16Ohm : 5W RMS per channel, 32Ohm : 2.5W RMS per channel


----------



## Ichos

Since I have reviewed the FCN 10 and now I have for review the FA 12 I have become a great admirer of Flux Labs.

They have a vision and design "music" playing machines rather than sound reproducers.


----------



## Ichos

sahmen said:


> Does it also have the grunt and (Class A) power of the FA-10, I mean the power to handle hard-to-drive planars as well as the latter does or oven handle them better?


16Ohm : 5W RMS per channel, 32Ohm : 2.5W RMS per channel

Vs 

300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel, 32Ohm: 16W RMS per channel, 600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel

The FA 10 is a power house in pure class A.

One if it's kind.


----------



## Sebbai

cfranchi said:


> I’m more and more tempting to take the road of speaker amp for my HE6se. After trying HE1000 v2 with FCN10 I can definitely say that powerful amp can wake up a headphone. HE1000 has still a sort of laid back sound compared to HE6se (which has more realistic timbre and engagement factor) but after using HE1000 on high gain at around 12+ oclock I’m keen to think that HE6se has room of improvement even if driven from FCN10.
> 
> So back to speaker amp and soundnews.net (I tend to trust the review and taste of Sandu) : here is what Sandu wrote about KECES S300 speaker amp and Susvara:
> 
> ...


Let me know how the He6se sounds from smsl sa400. Was thinking about buying the FA-10


----------



## cfranchi (Jul 14, 2021)

Sebbai said:


> Let me know how the He6se sounds from smsl sa400. Was thinking about buying the FA-10



I have ordered custom cable to convert banana plugs to female xlr (from LQI cables) should receive in 3-6 weeks : once received I’ll order SA400 and will post my impressions


----------



## Majors

I Just got my FA-22 today. Shipping to US was fast 7 days. It was packed very well and the remote is small but cute. I`ll let you know more after a few days burn-in.


----------



## Slim1970

Majors said:


> I Just got my FA-22 today. Shipping to US was fast 7 days. It was packed very well and the remote is small but cute. I`ll let you know more after a few days burn-in.


Nice, what do it sound like it to you.


----------



## Majors

I`m sorry but give me some time and I`ll let you know.


----------



## Majors (Jul 16, 2021)

OK initial impressions, this amp is amazing. Listening to The Cars Bye Bye Love. Relaxed but still extended and vice- grip control on bass. This is Dennifrips Aries 2 and HD800s. Fa-22 brought life to these baby's. I can't wait for 200 hours. 👍


----------



## Ichos

Fluxlab and Denafrips are a great match.
I am reviewing the FA-12 with Ares II , a very musical and engaging combination.


----------



## Taz777

I was chatting with Flux Audio on Messenger earlier this week on stock availability and delivery timescales. I've got Audeze LCD-X which are fairly easy to drive for planars (20-Ohm, 103dB). I'm currently eyeing up the FA-10 Pro or the FA-12. Any opinions on which one would be a more musical match for the LCD-X? Flux Audio mentioned that the FA-12 produces a more 'emotional presentation' which is something I would veer towards.

I also notice that the FA-22 is discounted at the moment - not sure why that is! It seems to be between the FA-10 and FA-12 in terms of music presentation.


----------



## The Hawk (Jul 16, 2021)

Taz777 said:


> I was chatting with Flux Audio on Messenger earlier this week on stock availability and delivery timescales. I've got Audeze LCD-X which are fairly easy to drive for planars (20-Ohm, 103dB). I'm currently eyeing up the FA-10 Pro or the FA-12. Any opinions on which one would be a more musical match for the LCD-X? Flux Audio mentioned that the FA-12 produces a more 'emotional presentation' which is something I would veer towards.
> 
> I also notice that the FA-22 is discounted at the moment - not sure why that is! It seems to be between the FA-10 and FA-12 in terms of music presentation.


I can’t speak to the FA-10 but I run my LCD-X with my FA-12S and I love the pairing

The 12S is said to sound exactly like the 12 but is single ended only. I too considered the FA-10 because let’s face it……all that power has a nice appeal. I read reviews way back in this thread by a gentleman who had the 10 and the 12 and I chose the 12 based on his feedback. He commented on how the 12 had a nice warmth to it with nice extension in the bass and treble over the 10 and a very nice mid range presence. He said he loved both amps but preferred the 12 for extended listening sessions and that appealed to me coming from a 789.

Sometimes I wonder if I’m missing out not getting the 10 but damn……the LCD-X just sound so nice with my 12S powering them……I really love the treble presentation…….all the detail my 789 had but it’s got more extension and it’s smooth……no etch at all.


----------



## Taz777 (Jul 16, 2021)

The Hawk said:


> I can’t speak to the FA-10 but I run my LCD-X with my FA-12S and I love the pairing
> 
> The 12S is said to sound exactly like the 12 but is single ended only. I too considered the FA-10 because let’s face it……all that power has a nice appeal. I read reviews way back in this thread by a gentleman who had the 10 and the 12 and I chose the 12 based on his feedback. He commented on how the 12 had a nice warmth to it with nice extension in the bass and treble over the 10 and a very nice mid range presence. He said he loved both amps but preferred the 12 for extended listening sessions and that appealed to me coming from a 789.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if I’m missing out not getting the 10 but damn……the LCD-X just sound so nice with my 12S powering them……I really love the treble presentation…….all the detail my 789 had but it’s got more extension and it’s smooth……no etch at all.


Many thanks for the reply. I didn't even know there was a 12S! I must have missed it. It's good to hear that the 12 works well with the LCD-X.

[Edit] I forgot to mention that my one concern is the size of these Flux Audio head amps. I have extremely limited space where a 12 would go - think Arcam rHead levels of space. I saw the measurements on Flux Audio's site and these are quite large amps.


----------



## Ichos

Taz777 said:


> Many thanks for the reply. I didn't even know there was a 12S! I must have missed it. It's good to hear that the 12 works well with the LCD-X.
> 
> [Edit] I forgot to mention that my one concern is the size of these Flux Audio head amps. I have extremely limited space where a 12 would go - think Arcam rHead levels of space. I saw the measurements on Flux Audio's site and these are quite large amps.


Both FA - 10 and FA - 12 are very musical amps.
What is going to be your source?


----------



## Taz777

Ichos said:


> Both FA - 10 and FA - 12 are very musical amps.
> What is going to be your source?


A choice of Topping D90 or Gustard A18 DACs decoding lossless CD-quality and Hi-Res audio, including TIDAL Masters.


----------



## Ichos

Taz777 said:


> A choice of Topping D90 or Gustard A18 DACs decoding lossless CD-quality and Hi-Res audio, including TIDAL Masters.


Since they are balanced designs I would suggest the FA 12 which is fully balanced so you can keep signal integrity intact.


----------



## The Hawk

Taz777 said:


> Many thanks for the reply. I didn't even know there was a 12S! I must have missed it. It's good to hear that the 12 works well with the LCD-X



Fantastic amp for $499 if you want the warmth the 12 is noted for and are not concerned about a balanced architecture. And the LCD-X are an easy load for it to drive

I really like the Flux products. They’re built well, use quality parts, they serve the music and I like how you can customize them. I had them add the remote volume control (a must do IMO) and the colour combos. I have mine on the same rack my Bryston audio system occupies so I ordered it black and requested a black volume knob (silver is standard) so it blended in.


----------



## Majors

Me and my FA-22 "Toe tapping like a mad man and Smiling like the Joker" 😁


----------



## Sunset1982

I want a new amp for my empys... fa-10 pro or fa-22?!


----------



## eugene2 (Jul 27, 2021)

Sunset1982 said:


> I want a new amp for my empys... fa-10 pro or fa-22?!


FA 10 pro versus FA 22
Dear Michael

Thank you for your interest

Those two models are pretty similar by the sound signature, the only thing on FA-22 you should know, the midrange is a bit emotional and forwarded, and also output power, 16 Watt FA-10Pro instead 2.5Watt FA-22

For your headphones I guess FA-22 would be great choice with plenty of power and great dynamic

Regards, Vitaliy
Headphone LSA HP Diamonds and others…


----------



## Roasty

I recently asked them which amp to pair with utopia/Stellia. This was their reply. 



"The FA-12 will be the warmest of our amplifiers. The FA-22 is similar to the FA-12, but has a faster and more dynamic sound.

In this case, the FA-22 can be perceived a little lighter or brighter, but at the same time it has the most detailed sound and very collected bass."

" Thank you so much for your questions. 
FA-22 is a great solution for the asked models with great speed, focus and details, FA-12 will have a bit more warm mids presentation, deeper but relaxed lows. FA-22 can support a variety of connections, I mean you can use XLR or TRS output when connecting the source via RCA. Because of fully balanced design FA-12 can support only direct connection XLR 4PIN OUT from XLR out or TRS OUT from the RCA input. "


----------



## Lohb

Any of the Flux models sound similar to GS-X mk2 or GS-X mini ?
See a lot of ToTL can owners with that amp in the chain.


----------



## Majors (Aug 5, 2021)

I`m not sure, I love my FA-22 but here`s one I was considering.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_




Lohb said:


> Any of the Flux models sound similar to GS-X mk2 or GS-X mini ?
> See a lot of ToTL can owners with that amp in the chain.


----------



## Lohb

Majors said:


> I`m not sure I love my FA-22 but here`s one I was considering.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


What are you not liking about FA-22 ?


----------



## Majors (Aug 5, 2021)

Sorry you must of misunderstood. I LOVE my FA-22 and I wouldn't change a thing. Amazing how a comma changes the whole sentence


----------



## Lohb

Majors said:


> Sorry you must of misunderstood. I LOVE my FA-22 and I wouldn't change a thing. Amazing how a comma changes the whole sentence


Which headphones you using it with...gain level ?


----------



## Majors

Lohb said:


> Which headphones you using it with...gain level ?


I`m mostly using HD800S and highly modded K701 on High gain at around 11 o`clock. The sound signature does not change on Med or High but on Med I`m now at 1 o`clock where I start to see larger volume increments. BTW my wife left a very positive review on FLA.


----------



## Deolum

haasaaroni said:


> The FA-10 is no joke. I've been burning in a pair of headphones, and have literally been having a fan blow on my FA-10 to keep it cool while I'm out during the day


My FA-10 stays pretty cool. At least i've never noticed anything else from my listening position 2m away. When i had the Audiovalve Solaris that was a different story...


----------



## haasaaroni

Deolum said:


> My FA-10 stays pretty cool. At least i've never noticed anything else from my listening position 2m away. When i had the Audiovalve Solaris that was a different story...


Yeah I'm sitting about an arm's length away, and on a warm day it can get pretty toasty to the touch.

I'm curious to hear about the Audiovalve Solaris! That amp looks like a beast. Did you have it and the FA-10 at the same time?


----------



## Infoseeker (Aug 7, 2021)

Deolum said:


> My FA-10 stays pretty cool. At least i've never noticed anything else from my listening position 2m away. When i had the Audiovalve Solaris that was a different story...



Just remember to keep a headphone connected at all times to keep then circuit completed. Will have less standby heat.

My FA-10 can get quite hot when I turn off the room AC. It even got a smell when it got hot enough. It probably needs a fan pointed at it during such situations.


----------



## Iggnasty

Infoseeker said:


> Just remember to keep a headphone connected at all times to keep then circuit completed. Will have less standby heat.
> 
> My FA-10 can get quite hot when I turn off the room AC. It even got a smell when it got hot enough. It probably needs a fan pointed at it during such situations.


This could help Fan , I have not received my FA-22 yet but I do have the fan.


----------



## Deolum

haasaaroni said:


> Yeah I'm sitting about an arm's length away, and on a warm day it can get pretty toasty to the touch.
> 
> I'm curious to hear about the Audiovalve Solaris! That amp looks like a beast. Did you have it and the FA-10 at the same time?


No i sold the Audiovalve first and bought the FA-10 later.


----------



## eugene2

Deolum said:


> No i sold the Audiovalve first and bought the FA-10 later.


----------



## eugene2 (Aug 21, 2021)

Flux Labs doesn’t play with 100.00 postage my FA 22 showed up Thursday.  I’m almost there with my system.  FA 22 with M2Tech Young MkIII with Van Der Graaf power supply, LSA Diamond headphones and tomorrow will receive IFI Zen Streamer with a lot of power supply conditioning and silver cabling.  The FA 22 is a great match for the M2Tech only have about 50 hrs on the 22 I’m getting excited…


----------



## Lvivske

eugene2 said:


> Flux Labs doesn’t play with 100.00 postage my FA 22 showed up Thursday.



how long did that work out to?


----------



## eugene2

Lvivske said:


> how long did that work out to?


Completed, shipped and received the same week.  So 3 days I believe


----------



## nicastrino

Hey Guys, this is my first time posting here and found out about this amplifier through a YouTube video by Sandu from SoundNews channel and I am drawn to this amp because it is of a supposed darker sound signature which I like and is my preferred sound signature.

First off, I really need help in deciding whether to get the FA-10 or the FA-12. I only listen on the Audeze LCD-4z because I am a bass head and I am wondering if there is any advantage to go with FA-10 for its monstrous power, will soundstage and bass be improved with the FA-10? Or should I go with the FA-12 for its darker sound signature and all the extra power the FA-10 provides will be useless and will not give an increase in soundstage and bass?

Also, can i use EQ on the FA-10 to match the sound signature of the FA-12 amp (thus making the FA-10 a no brainer purchase)?

Anyone here who has listened to the Audeze LCD-4z on both the FA-10 and the FA-12 can give me some insights I would really appreciate it to help me narrow down which amp I should order.



Thanks!


----------



## Lohb

nicastrino said:


> Hey Guys, this is my first time posting here and found out about this amplifier through a YouTube video by Sandu from SoundNews channel and I am drawn to this amp because it is of a supposed darker sound signature which I like and is my preferred sound signature.
> 
> First off, I really need help in deciding whether to get the FA-10 or the FA-12. I only listen on the Audeze LCD-4z because I am a bass head and I am wondering if there is any advantage to go with FA-10 for its monstrous power, will soundstage and bass be improved with the FA-10? Or should I go with the FA-12 for its darker sound signature and all the extra power the FA-10 provides will be useless and will not give an increase in soundstage and bass?
> 
> ...


From what I have read FA-22 is a half-way point in power and sound signature of Fa-10/Fa-12


----------



## nicastrino

Lohb said:


> From what I have read FA-22 is a half-way point in power and sound signature of Fa-10/Fa-12


Hmm, it seems the FA-22 is the brighter of the bunch and i really dont like brightness all that much, my main thing i am trying to figure out if the Audeze LCD-4z will benefit of the increased power of the FA-10 and present a larger soundstage and harder slam than the FA-12.


----------



## Lohb

nicastrino said:


> Hmm, it seems the FA-22 is the brighter of the bunch and i really dont like brightness all that much, my main thing i am trying to figure out if the Audeze LCD-4z will benefit of the increased power of the FA-10 and present a larger soundstage and harder slam than the FA-12.


With easier to drive Audeze LCDs and FA-10. I hit a volume ceiling fast in high gain...reason I went to high gain was.. it gave a really dynamic presentation vs medium gain but could not get a balance between medium volume and slightly louder..it went to too loud over a tiny turn of the volume pot.


----------



## eugene2

Lohb said:


> With easier to drive Audeze LCDs and FA-10. I hit a volume ceiling fast in high gain...reason I went to high gain was.. it gave a really dynamic presentation vs medium gain but could not get a balance between medium volume and slightly louder..it went to too loud over a tiny turn of the volume pot.


Write Flux they know your phones and will advise you appropriately


----------



## nicastrino

eugene2 said:


> Write Flux they know your phones and will advise you appropriately


Yep, that's what I'm going to do and see what they recommend. I have gotten great advice from some members here and will see what Vitaly's opinion is from Flux. 

The appeal of the FCN-10 for me is very high because of it being a one box solution so i don't have to mess with cables, DAC's and different pairings and just be done with it and call it end game haha... hopefully it will be a good pairing with my LCD-4z

Depending on which amp i order, once it arrives i will definitely leave my impressions


----------



## sahmen

nicastrino said:


> Yep, that's what I'm going to do and see what they recommend. I have gotten great advice from some members here and will see what Vitaly's opinion is from Flux.
> 
> The appeal of the FCN-10 for me is very high because of it being a one box solution so i don't have to mess with cables, DAC's and different pairings and just be done with it and call it end game haha... hopefully it will be a good pairing with my LCD-4z
> 
> Depending on which amp i order, once it arrives i will definitely leave my impressions


The only issue I see here is whether your adventure with Basshead HPs will end with the LCD-4z.  Life would be simpler if you in fact stop at the 4z... Yet there are even more bass-head options to explore, as you will soon find out, if you stick around head-fi longer...  And I mean basshead cans that are more basshead than the 4z, and which may require more powerful amp options...  So choose with care, is all I am saying


----------



## Majors

nicastrino said:


> Hmm, it seems the FA-22 is the brighter of the bunch and i really dont like brightness all that much, my main thing i am trying to figure out if the Audeze LCD-4z will benefit of the increased power of the FA-10 and present a larger soundstage and harder slam than the FA-12.


I have a FA-22 and I can say it is not bright at all. I'm using Denafrips Aries 2 and HD800s which needs the right amp to soar and this setup has smoothed out the top while adding punch to the bass.


----------



## haasaaroni

Majors said:


> I have a FA-22 and I can say it is not bright at all. I'm using Denafrips Aries 2 and HD800s which needs the right amp to soar and this setup has smoothed out the top while adding punch to the bass.


Awesome! I’d love to hear some more FA-22 impressions if anybody has any. Curious to hear this thing against my FA-10.


----------



## jonathan c

haasaaroni said:


> Awesome! I’d love to hear some more FA-22 impressions if anybody has any. Curious to hear this thing against my FA-10.


I am awaiting the arrival of FA-22 with keenness. I will certainly be comparing it, over time, with Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Schiit Mjolnir II (cap modded), Violectric V280, Woo WA3, Woo WA6. Headphones will go from Audeze LCD-X to ZMF Auteur…


----------



## Ichos (Aug 24, 2021)

haasaaroni said:


> Awesome! I’d love to hear some more FA-22 impressions if anybody has any. Curious to hear this thing against my FA-10.


I am preparing a review that will be available till the 15th of September.

Oops , sorry I meant FA-12.


----------



## haasaaroni

Ichos said:


> I am preparing a review that will be available till the 15th of September.
> 
> Oops , sorry I meant FA-12.


Haha hard to keep track of all the FA numbers isn’t it? Next up will be the FA-120 and FA-220, just to mess with people


----------



## jonathan c

haasaaroni said:


> Haha hard to keep track of all the FA numbers isn’t it? Next up will be the FA-120 and FA-220, just to mess with people


Or FLA will switch to Roman numerals…


----------



## Newsee

jonathan c said:


> Or FLA will switch to Roman numerals…


FA-X, FA-XII, FA-XXII, FA-CXX, FA-CCXX - your choice


----------



## haasaaroni

Newsee said:


> FA-X, FA-XII, FA-XXII, FA-CXX, FA-CCXX - your choice


Lol "FA-CC"

That would go great with a Schiit Hel...

"What's your setup?"
"I've got a FA-CC and Hel"


----------



## ardbeg1975

Hello. Similar to some others above, I also am awaiting arrival of an FA-22. Any recommendations on a DAC pairing to accentuate speed and detail retrieval attributes, mainly for Jazz and electronic? Planned headphones for those genres on the FA-22 are Wodans. I have a Bifrost 2 paired with tube and hybrid tube amps but was contemplating a different DAC for the Flux as a change of pace. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.


----------



## Majors

ardbeg1975 said:


> Hello. Similar to some others above, I also am awaiting arrival of an FA-22. Any recommendations on a DAC pairing to accentuate speed and detail retrieval attributes, mainly for Jazz and electronic? Planned headphones for those genres on the FA-22 are Wodans. I have a Bifrost 2 paired with tube and hybrid tube amps but was contemplating a different DAC for the Flux as a change of pace. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.


I would recommend a Denafrips Dac. I have a FA-22 with the aries 2 and love the sound. I will be upgrading to the venus 2 soon for my endgame. Recently there was a MCU firmware update 3.6.0 and WOW everything improved. I was up till 4am mesmerized. This has sold me on Denafrips products.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Majors said:


> I would recommend a Denafrips Dac. I have a FA-22 with the aries 2 and love the sound. I will be upgrading to the venus 2 soon for my endgame. Recently there was a MCU firmware update 3.6.0 and WOW everything improved. I was up till 4am mesmerized. This has sold me on Denafrips products.


Thank you. You don’t think there would be too much overlap with the BF2 as both are R2R / multibit designs?


----------



## Majors (Aug 28, 2021)

ardbeg1975 said:


> Thank you. You don’t think there would be too much overlap with the BF2 as both are R2R / multibit designs?


I cannot say for sure, but my current Resolution Audio Opus 21 which I compared against Theta and Meridian
is bested by this 750 dollar piece.


----------



## nicastrino (Aug 28, 2021)

just placed an order two days ago and now I am in the FCN-10 waiting club  ..
hopefully the backorder situation wont be too much of a wait


----------



## eugene2

nicastrino said:


> just placed an order two days ago and now I am in the FCN-10 waiting club  ..
> hopefully the backorder situation wont be too much of a wait


I received my FA 22 about a week ago burned it in for three days and I have it hooked up to a M2tech Young Mk III with a M2Tech Van Der  Graaff power supply I also ordered the IFI Wi-Fi streamer and also connected it to the Van Der Graaf.   Installed an UpTone Regen (I have two might add that one and see what happens) into the Dac two days ago I have all kinds of power conditioning and silver and copper interconnects and power cords.  The sound is beyond amazing.  This is a very very good amp!  
The M2Tech is awesome took it to my friends studio and challenged his 22k Playback Dac along with his Rockna Dac and the M2Tech had a Rocky type performance.  This Dac is amazing at $3k. i chose it over my Wadia di322, Chord Hugo, and PS Audio (latest firmware) forget about my Topping gear which is good for the money.  I immediately heard a difference  when I-took out the Topping A30 pro and an Eddie Current  ZDT Jr and inserted the FA22.  Then I began moving Dacs in and out and verified again the M2Tech is a killer.  The LSA HP Diamonds are surgical and scale with the changes.  Amazing what you hear when components are working together.
I’m selling the Topping Stack and the ZDT Jr I will probably buy a tube amp to compliment the FA 22, but I will have to spend more money to keep up with the other gear.


----------



## Lohb (Aug 28, 2021)

eugene2 said:


> I received my FA 22 about a week ago burned it in for three days and I have it hooked up to a M2tech Young Mk III with a M2Tech Van Der  Graaff power supply I also ordered the IFI Wi-Fi streamer and also connected it to the Van Der Graaf.   Installed an UpTone Regen (I have two might add that one and see what happens) into the Dac two days ago I have all kinds of power conditioning and silver and copper interconnects and power cords.  The sound is beyond amazing.  This is a very very good amp!
> The M2Tech is awesome took it to my friends studio and challenged his 22k Playback Dac along with his Rockna Dac and the M2Tech had a Rocky type performance.  This Dac is amazing at $3k. i chose it over my Wadia di322, Chord Hugo, and PS Audio (latest firmware) forget about my Topping gear which is good for the money.  I immediately heard a difference  when I-took out the Topping A30 pro and an Eddie Current  ZDT Jr and inserted the FA22.  Then I began moving Dacs in and out and verified again the M2Tech is a killer.  The LSA HP Diamonds are surgical and scale with the changes.  Amazing what you hear when components are working together.
> I’m selling the Topping Stack and the ZDT Jr I will probably buy a tube amp to compliment the FA 22, but I will have to spend more money to keep up with the other gear.


Where would you place the amplifier tone...warmish etc ?....and had read somewhere they said it was bright in treble...


----------



## eugene2

Lohb said:


> Where would you place the amplifier tone...warmish etc ?....and had read somewhere they said it was bright in treble...


Not bright, whoever said that may have an issue somewhere else in the chain.  You have to be careful what you read, the amplifier may have exposed something else in the chain.  It is a little mid forward, you may consider it warm or emotional, the sound signature is similar to the 10 pro per Vitaly.  My headphones are 38 ohms, so I do not need the power the FA22 has plenty. I will tell you do not believe the 2.5 watts it is way more powerful than the A30 Pro and way more musical.


----------



## joseG86

Hi there,

What are the differences between the FA-10 and FA-22??


----------



## Lohb

joseG86 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> What are the differences between the FA-10 and FA-22??


Previously on their website it said more or less it was a mix of the best of FA-10 Pro and Fa-12...= highly technical with a warmer mid-forward tone was my take-away from that.


----------



## JS27 (Aug 30, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> What are the differences between the FA-10 and FA-22??



 I have both.  FA-10 is a power-pushing beast....in my personal opinion, with the FA-12 (and 12s) and now FA-22 out....you'd go for the FA-10 if your headphone stable had a lot of harder-to-drive candidates in it.   Between the FA-12 and FA-22, the 12 leans warmer/slightly thicker in tone/heavier in bass/more relaxed in execution. The FA-22 is 'brighter' than the FA-12, but still neutral-hint o' warm as overall tone profile.  It's a bit faster, more mid-focused, slightly up'd microdynamic's.  FA-10 sits kind of between them to me.

  Great amps for the money.  "House tone" not radically different in the models....my two cents only, again if you've got power-hog cans go FA-10.  If not...FA-22 if you want more mid-forward/speed/micro....FA-12 if you like it a bit thicker/bass-heavy/warmer.


----------



## ardbeg1975

JS27 said:


> Great amps for the money. "House tone" not radically different in the models....my two cents only, again if you've got power-hog cans go FA-10. If not...FA-22 if you want more mid-forward/speed/micro....FA-12 if you like it a bit thicker/bass-heavy/warmer.


My FA-22 just arrived. First impressions are very positive. Speed and a bit of pleasant “brightness” but I’m coming from a hybrid tube amp with a ‘50s era tube so almost anything is going to sound more neutral. Currently sourced from a Bifrost 2 and I think the FA-22 takes away a little bit of the thickness of the BF2 but widens the staging while still keeping the overall experience very enjoyable.


----------



## Lohb

ardbeg1975 said:


> My FA-22 just arrived. First impressions are very positive. Speed and a bit of pleasant “brightness” but I’m coming from a hybrid tube amp with a ‘50s era tube so almost anything is going to sound more neutral. Currently sourced from a Bifrost 2 and I think the FA-22 takes away a little bit of the thickness of the BF2 but widens the staging while still keeping the overall experience very enjoyable.


Low-end tighter and faster vs hybrid ? That is about twice now I have seen 'brightness' being connected to this amp..


----------



## ardbeg1975 (Sep 2, 2021)

Lohb said:


> Low-end tighter and faster vs hybrid ? That is about twice now I have seen 'brightness' being connected to this amp..


I wouldn’t so much say it is truly bright (as I am treble sensitive and don’t like very bright) but compared to a hybrid with a vintage tube it is much, much more neutral and thus brighter in comparison to that. I’m using Kennerton Wodans with this rig so the low end is already skewed to speed and control compared to the thick but sometimes less articulate thump of some other headphones but yes the bass is very present, fast and detailed. The true low end test will be with some Gjallarhorns which I’m doing late this week.


----------



## ARCXENOS

I ordered a FA-10 unit on the 29th of Aug but have not received an order confirmation, may I know how long did it take for Flux to confirm your orders?


----------



## ardbeg1975

About 3 business days to confirm order. From there, it took about 4 weeks to ship. Worth the wait.


----------



## Majors

Lohb said:


> Low-end tighter and faster vs hybrid ? That is about twice now I have seen 'brightness' being connected to this amp..


I would get the FA-12 if your that concerned and looking for a darker sound. I find the F-22 detailed but not bright at all and that is on HD800s.


----------



## Ichos

The FA-12 is transparent yet very smooth and musical with a touch of warmness.


----------



## eugene2

Majors said:


> I would get the FA-12 if your that concerned and looking for a darker sound. I find the F-22 detailed but not bright at all and that is on HD800s.


I agree, very detailed and open sound. I tried several Dacs and the character changed each time. The better the Dac the more detail and musicality.  The FA 22 sounds exactly as described by Flux Labs.  It really depends on your rig and your sound preferences.  If you have a headphone that is on the brighter side you may prefer the FA-12.  My main hp is (by audiophile terms) very fast, detailed, with solid technicalities (whatever that means) reference grade.  The impedance is around 38 ohms so there is plenty of power, very good amplifier especially at the price.  I believe you have to go a lot higher in price to find something competitive...


----------



## Infoseeker

eugene2 said:


> I agree, very detailed and open sound. I tried several Dacs and the character changed each time. The better the Dac the more detail and musicality.  The FA 22 sounds exactly as described by Flux Labs.  It really depends on your rig and your sound preferences.  If you have a headphone that is on the brighter side you may prefer the FA-12.  My main hp is (by audiophile terms) very fast, detailed, with solid technicalities (whatever that means) reference grade.  The impedance is around 38 ohms so there is plenty of power, very good amplifier especially at the price.  I believe you have to go a lot higher in price to find something competitive...



How are you connecting the Hugo 2 to an amp. Hugo 2 seems to distort for me whenever I go loud? Even when turned on into Line-out mode.


----------



## eugene2 (Sep 3, 2021)

Infoseeker said:


> How are you connecting the Hugo 2 to an amp. Hugo 2 seems to distort for me whenever I go loud? Even when turned on into Line-out mode.


Rca out in rear - usb front audioquest mini USB adapter to full size usb cable into regen to ifi streamer.  No distortion I also took it to my friends house and hooked it up to his big rig through his huge maggie’s And some super expensive tube amp.  I actually sold the Hugo 2 to my friend last night.  My new favorite Dac is the M2Tech Young III and Van Der Graaf II power supply.


----------



## patatchod

Hello, 
Has anyone been able to compare the FA-12 (or FA-10) with a Singxer SA-1?


----------



## jonathan c

~ I do not own any of the hpa in the title of this thread. But I do own the Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22. What a headphone amplifier!
~ I have currently a number of hpa: tube OTC, tube OTL, tube/SS hybrid, and SS. I will say right off that the FA-22 in a short time, after a two-day warm-up, displaced the Violectric V280 as my favourite SS hpa. To me, the FA-22 is a fighting trim V280 with faster reflexes and all of the V280’s musicality. (The V280 is no slouch when it comes to dynamics and transients!).
~ A special quality, to me anyway, about the FA-22 is that - unlike many SS hpa - the ‘air’ between instruments and performers is not ‘electrically energised’ but is left ‘inert’. This for me _dramatically _adds to the realism of what I hear. In this particular sense, the FA-22 is tube-like. As a result, the FA-22 conveys hall/studio ambience and reverberation in the most convincing fashion that I have heard with SS.
~ I get goosebumps listening to acoustic bass, female vocals, massed strings, riding cymbals with polyrhythmic snare brush work…with the FA-22. What else can I say?
~ For the price listed on the FLA website, the FA-22 is an unrelenting bargain!…👍😆🤪…


----------



## Ichos

Very nice!
BTW everything I heard from Flux seems as a bargain to me.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> ~ I do not own any of the hpa in the title of this thread. But I do own the Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22. What a headphone amplifier!
> ~ I have currently a number of hpa: tube OTC, tube OTL, tube/SS hybrid, and SS. I will say right off that the FA-22 in a short time, after a two-day warm-up, displaced the Violectric V280 as my favourite SS hpa. To me, the FA-22 is a fighting trim V280 with faster reflexes and all of the V280’s musicality. (The V280 is no slouch when it comes to dynamics and transients!).
> ~ A special quality, to me anyway, about the FA-22 is that - unlike many SS hpa - the ‘air’ between instruments and performers is not ‘electrically energised’ but is left ‘inert’. This for me _dramatically _adds to the realism of what I hear. In this particular sense, the FA-22 is tube-like. As a result, the FA-22 conveys hall/studio ambience and reverberation in the most convincing fashion that I have heard with SS.
> ~ I get goosebumps listening to acoustic bass, female vocals, massed strings, riding cymbals with polyrhythmic snare brush work…with the FA-22. What else can I say?
> ~ For the price listed on the FLA website, the FA-22 is an unrelenting bargain!…👍😆🤪…


Been getting the itch to add a good SS to the mix, and this post just put the FA-22 in the number one spot on my list.  Thanks for sharing bro!


----------



## Ichos

If you guys have a balanced DAC then you should definitely consider FA-12.
I will post my review in about a week but I can already mention that I am thrilled with it.


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> If you guys have a balanced DAC then you should definitely consider FA-12.
> I will post my review in about a week but I can already mention that I am thrilled with it.


I do have a balanced DAC (Mojo Audio EVO Mystique). It is tremendous with the FA-22.


----------



## Ichos

I don't doubt it, I am addressing the purist who still needs a fully balanced amp.
The FA-22 technically it isn't balanced.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 8, 2021)

Ichos said:


> If you guys have a balanced DAC then you should definitely consider FA-12.
> I will post my review in about a week but I can already mention that I am thrilled with it.


Interested in this, as I do have a balanced DAC (Morpheus), and I am trying to decide between the FA-12 and FA-22.  I am curious why one would go with one or the other, if they have a balanced DAC.


----------



## Ichos (Sep 8, 2021)

@Wes S
First decision factor should definitely be the sound signature.
I haven't heard the 22 but Vitaliy told me that there are several differences so I guess that it depends on synergy.
Second factor should be if you are stubborn like me (!) and you like the signal to remain intact and fully balanced without converting.


----------



## Wes S

Ichos said:


> @Wes S
> First decision factor should definitely be the sound signature.
> I haven't heard the 22 but Vitaliy told me that there are several differences so I guess that it depends on synergy.
> Second factor should be if you are stubborn like me (!) and you like the signal to remain intact and fully balanced without converting.


Got ya, and the second factor is a big one for me, so looks like it's most likely gonna be the FA-12.


----------



## Ichos (Sep 8, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Got ya, and the second factor is a big one for me, so looks like it's most likely gonna be the FA-12.


The FA-12 pairs great with everything as it is neutral, transparent and linear.
Add a touch of harmonic warmth, clean background , excellent detail retrieval, great dynamics and huge soundstage.

FA 22 from what I know should be more hard hitting but not as deep in the bass and definitely less warm.


----------



## JS27

Wes S said:


> Interested in this, as I do have a balanced DAC (Morpheus), and I am trying to decide between the FA-12 and FA-22.  I am curious why one would go with one or the other, if they have a balanced DAC.



 FA-12 tuning is a bit warmer/thicker/heavier bass.  FA-22 is a bit faster/lighter/detailed. Speaking to a modest degree relative to this amp. This is an oversimplification, but for the three base Flux amps the sound is similar but each is tuned slightly differently:

FA-12 (bass/thicker) - FA-10 (even handling of bass/treble/mid) - FA-22 (mid/detailed).

Bonus consideration would be FA-10 is a power-pusher (if you need a ton of voltage), FA-12 is true-balanced for folks who look for that.


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> @Wes S
> First decision factor should definitely be the sound signature.
> I haven't heard the 22 but Vitaliy told me that there are several differences so I guess that it depends on synergy.
> Second factor should be if you are stubborn like me (!) and you like the signal to remain intact and fully balanced without converting.


I will chime in with this: the FA-22 works beautifully with ZMF Auteur, Beyerdynamic DT-880 600 ohm, Senn HD-600, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Focal Clear OG…when headphone cable is in SE socket or in XLR socket. (The DAC is connected to FA-22 by XLR -> XLR.)


----------



## Wes S (Sep 8, 2021)

Thanks for the info @JS27, @Ichos and @jonathan c.


----------



## Ichos

Oh , choices...

FA 12 balanced is excellent with Clear Mg, HD660s, HEDDphone and even with the Elite.
Maybe a touch too thick for the 650 but I have to listen again.


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> Oh , choices...
> 
> FA 12 balanced is excellent with Clear Mg, HD660s, HEDDphone and even with the Elite.
> Maybe a touch too thick for the 650 but I have to listen again.


An existential dilemma: one has no choice about having choice…


----------



## realmassy

Ichos said:


> Oh , choices...
> 
> FA 12 balanced is excellent with Clear Mg, HD660s, HEDDphone and even with the Elite.
> Maybe a touch too thick for the 650 but I have to listen again.


Do you think it would be ‘too much of a good thing’ when paired with a R2R DAC like the Pontus II? I’ve got 4 amps on my short list to pair with that DAC (and the Empyrean, HEDD and HE1000SE): FA-12, Soloist, Master 9 and the Denafrips Artemis


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> Do you think it would be ‘too much of a good thing’ when paired with a R2R DAC like the Pontus II? I’ve got 4 amps on my short list to pair with that DAC (and the Empyrean, HEDD and HE1000SE): FA-12, Soloist, Master 9 and the Denafrips Artemis


Of course not , the amplifier is transparent.
My main DAC for testing the amplifier is the Ares II and sometimes the Venus II.
Excellent combination very organic and musical.

BTW , you have just reminded me that I must find an Artemis demo!


----------



## realmassy

On a side note, has anyone got a picture of a FA-10/12/22 in silver? I can’t find any pictures…


----------



## realmassy

Ichos said:


> Of course not , the amplifier is transparent.
> My main DAC for testing the amplifier is the Ares II and sometimes the Venus II.
> Excellent combination very organic and musical.
> 
> BTW , you have just reminded me that I must find an Artemis demo!


Thanks, it’s reassuring that even with with the Ares the sound is glorious…let alone the Venus! 
My heart would love the Artemis, my brain and my wallet think the FA-12 is the better option


----------



## Ichos

@realmassy 

It's been a long since I have tested with the Empyrean.
I will revisit today and report back...
With the HEDDphone Ares+12 is a match made in heaven!


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> FA 22 from what I know should be more hard hitting but not as deep in the bass and definitely less warm.


The FA-22 has excellent performance on transients and dynamics without edge, etch, or stridency. While it may be “less warm” than the FA-12, the FA-22 is _not_ antiseptic, clinical, cool, or ‘crystalline’ in the way that, say, the HeadAmp GSX-ii can be. This, after listening through Beyer DT880 600 ohm / Focal Clear OG / Gjallarhorn JM Edition / ZMF Auteur.


----------



## Ichos

@realmassy and the rest!

I have been listening a couple of hours with the Empyrean (leather pads) using Ares II and FA-12.
Well , can't detect any extra warmth that messes with the Empyrean.
The sound very organic and analog with great timbre.
Full but yet controlled.
Not lighting fast but not relaxed either , should I say spot on?
Dynamics are very good but it is not super hard hitting but I like it that way , more natural.
Bass could be a touch faster.
I like it very much, reminds me a tube hybrid , not the same level holographic but then without the tube associated negatives.
This amp is my new reference for analog timbre with great technicalities.


----------



## realmassy

Great impressions @Ichos ! and from what I read in your reviews we have similar ‘taste’ in music and audio, I’ll keep it in mind when I decide about my new amp 👍


----------



## Majors

Ichos said:


> Of course not , the amplifier is transparent.
> My main DAC for testing the amplifier is the Ares II and sometimes the Venus II.
> Excellent combination very organic and musical.
> 
> BTW , you have just reminded me that I must find an Artemis demo!


What are your impressions on the Aries ll vs the Venus ll sound


----------



## Ichos

Majors said:


> What are your impressions on the Aries ll vs the Venus ll sound


Take the same organic sound signature and add a tons of detail, finer articulation, dynamics, bass body, depth, stage, ....you get the picture!


----------



## Majors

Ichos said:


> Take the same organic sound signature and add a tons of detail, finer articulation, dynamics, bass body, depth, stage, ....you get the picture!


Thanks, the Venus ll is my next purchase.


----------



## Ichos

Majors said:


> Thanks, the Venus ll is my next purchase.


Can't recommend more!!!


----------



## realmassy

What is the current lead time for the FA-12? And what about the Volot?


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> What is the current lead time for the FA-12? And what about the Volot?


I don't know, times are strange.
That is something that you should ask the Flux team.

Volot, I wonder what beast that is!


----------



## realmassy

Yeah, you’re obviously right! I just sent a message, will let you know


----------



## XLR2XLR

realmassy said:


> What is the current lead time for the FA-12? And what about the Volot?


I just placed an order for the Volot. Currently, the turnaround time is 3–4 weeks.


----------



## jonathan c

realmassy said:


> Do you think it would be ‘too much of a good thing’ when paired with a R2R DAC like the Pontus II?


I have a FA-22 paired with Mojo Audio EVO Mystique Pro (not to be confused with Chord Mojo), a NOS / R2R DAC…transparent, fully dimensional, naturally dynamic…🎼🎼🎼☁️☁️☁️…


----------



## Iggnasty

realmassy said:


> On a side note, has anyone got a picture of a FA-10/12/22 in silver? I can’t find any pictures…


My humble set up. FA 22 with silver plate


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Got ya, and the second factor is a big one for me, so looks like it's most likely gonna be the FA-12.


…assuming that the FA-12 has the ‘sound signature’ which you seek…and, if not?….


----------



## realmassy

XLR2XLR said:


> I just placed an order for the Volot. Currently, the turnaround time is 3–4 weeks.


Thanks. Yeah, I got a reply stating the same, not too bad , to be honest. It’s 5-10 days for the FA-12 by the way


----------



## Honeypot

Has anyone tried the volot against fa12?
Sound wise


----------



## Wes S (Sep 9, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> …assuming that the FA-12 has the ‘sound signature’ which you seek…and, if not?….


. . . if not, then this purist will look elsewhere, and it's as simple as that.  I am looking to squeeze the most out of my system, and not looking to make compromises at this point.    I am really looking for a purely balanced SS amp to pair with my Morpheus, and I like it warmer than most, so perhaps the FA-12 is just the ticket. . .


----------



## jonathan c

The enjoyment of the FA-22 sound - its clarity, musicality, mild warmth, speed - continues unabated. The FA-22 is an unbelievably good hpa sibling to the tube hpas that I have. One note: I will replace the volume knob which feels on the ‘economical’ side of things…


----------



## XLR2XLR

realmassy said:


> Thanks. Yeah, I got a reply stating the same, not too bad , to be honest. It’s 5-10 days for the FA-12 by the way


5-10 days is nothing compared to the 2 months I had to wait for my FA-12 when I ordered it in 2020.


----------



## XLR2XLR

Honeypot said:


> Has anyone tried the volot against fa12?
> Sound wise


This is what I'm waiting for to happen when I receive my Volot.

Here's how Flux described the difference between the two amps when I asked them about it:

_Most likely, amplifiers will complement each other. Because their feed is noticeably different, as is the circuitry. If FA-12 can be characterized as warm and velvety, Volot sounds more transparent and pure, it can be compared with the purest water, in which there are no impurities. Moreover, its sound is absolutely not clinical, it is extremely natural. At the same time Volot is able to provide noticeably higher speed and composure, which will be already strongly noticeable on "heavy" headphones. First of all, it was created for headphones such as Susvara / Abyss, but given the rather low noise level, the amplifier can be used even with in-ear headphones. The amplifiers are really different, they are united only by the fact that in any model we strive for a harmonious and natural volume, without noticeable fatigue from listening. You can also emphasize the difference in the construction of space with amplifiers. The FA-12 builds a more intimate, soulful atmosphere. Volot does it in a different way - everything is presented on a larger scale and wider. This is not an advantage or a disadvantage, this is its feature._


----------



## Infoseeker (Sep 12, 2021)

Silly interaction problem. The Fluxlab FA-10 remote overlaps with a signal used by my Chord Hugo 2. It keeps on changing settings on my Hugo 2.

So I stopped using the FA-10 remote.


----------



## cfranchi

Do you have some problem to do airplay with FCN10 ? I follow the procedure given by Flux and all seems ok, I can see fcn10 in the airplay devices (iphone 12) but when I play music nothing happen and fcn10 disappear from my airplay devices. Any idea?


----------



## nicastrino

cfranchi said:


> Do you have some problem to do airplay with FCN10 ? I follow the procedure given by Flux and all seems ok, I can see fcn10 in the airplay devices (iphone 12) but when I play music nothing happen and fcn10 disappear from my airplay devices. Any idea?


I am waiting for my FCN-10 to ship out hopefully today which is ready to go but just waiting for the Wine Red faceplate color so hopefully it will ship out today, I am also an iPhone user and would be interested in setting up AirPlay so once i receive it and setup AirPlay i will relay any instructions in case you cannot get it working.

In the meantime i suggest you check the Moode Forum as it is responsible for the Streamer part of the FCN-10. It is my understanding that it should be enabled by default on Moode so maybe your issue is router related.... Regardless once i receive my unit i will share with you any configuration if needed to have Airplay working.


----------



## cfranchi

nicastrino said:


> I am waiting for my FCN-10 to ship out hopefully today which is ready to go but just waiting for the Wine Red faceplate color so hopefully it will ship out today, I am also an iPhone user and would be interested in setting up AirPlay so once i receive it and setup AirPlay i will relay any instructions in case you cannot get it working.
> 
> In the meantime i suggest you check the Moode Forum as it is responsible for the Streamer part of the FCN-10. It is my understanding that it should be enabled by default on Moode so maybe your issue is router related.... Regardless once i receive my unit i will share with you any configuration if needed to have Airplay working.



Thank you very much


----------



## ARCXENOS

Ordered on the 29th of August, my FA-10 finally arrived and I am extremely amazed at it. The bass and instrument separation on my HE1000 V2 from the FA-10 is fantastic, and is what I would consider the main draw if someone asks me about them. At 750 USD (+ shipping and paypal fees, total was iirc 880 USD), I am shocked that there aren't more people talking about it or even recommending it. 

If you are interested in ordering an unit, the timeline was like this for me :
- 5 working days to receive order confirmation, don't be shocked if you don't get the confirmation within the day of payment.
- Another 5-7 (as per quoted by Vitaliy, looks like I got the best case scenario) working days to build (?, work on ? do something ? no idea) the unit
- About 2 days to dispatch/deliver (I opted for the UPS option, seems rather fast for me)

I was also considering the FA-10 PRO, and this is what Vitaliy had to say about them :


> FA-10 and FA-10PRO are based on similar topology but with some unique differences. Thanks to that, FA-10 and FA-10PRO have the same output power but different sound character. PRO version is more crisp and detailed, the bass response has more focus but is less in-depth. The classical version is more linear, warm and musical; lows are deeper, mids are more emotional. Those both models were designed to share unlimited possibilities for hard to drive headphones market



Another thing to note in my experience is, for the first 10 to 20 minutes it sounded pretty bad (bloated bass, some static, very sure its not the rest of the chain), but after that it sounded consistently good (break in?), been listening to it for about 4 hours straight without feeling any fatigue at all.

Very happy with the product.


----------



## nicastrino

ARCXENOS said:


> Ordered on the 29th of August, my FA-10 finally arrived and I am extremely amazed at it. The bass and instrument separation on my HE1000 V2 from the FA-10 is fantastic, and is what I would consider the main draw if someone asks me about them. At 750 USD (+ shipping and paypal fees, total was iirc 880 USD), I am shocked that there aren't more people talking about it or even recommending it.
> 
> If you are interested in ordering an unit, the timeline was like this for me :
> - 5 working days to receive order confirmation, don't be shocked if you don't get the confirmation within the day of payment.
> ...


Glad you like the amp!!, myself i went with the FCN-10 and placed the order on August 26th so im just waiting on it to ship out and opted for DHL...... 2 Days delivery is really fast, do you live in the USA?


----------



## ARCXENOS

nicastrino said:


> Glad you like the amp!!, myself i went with the FCN-10 and placed the order on August 26th so im just waiting on it to ship out and opted for DHL...... 2 Days delivery is really fast, do you live in the USA?


Whoops, forgot to mention I am in Singapore. The package route was Ukraine->China->SG, but from what I googled previously, it should be about 3 days towards the US (I assume since canada is close, it surely can't be too far off).

I have also asked him about the delivery options before, and this was his reply:


> About the delivery, the most reasonable method would be UPS Express Saver, it is issued and fast, not as DHL but also good. The delivery cost is about 100 USD. EMS cost can check on Monday, but it won't be cheaper than UPS (we have a special tariff there)



From what Vitaliy said, I would assume DHL would be faster, or at least on par with, UPS for the Ukraine part of the delivery. I mean it better be faster since it was 250 USD (at least that was what was quoted on my end)


----------



## Bilo

I've been using the FA-12 for a little over a month now and I've been nothing but impressed with how well it performs, its so smooth with excellent staging and warmth. For the first time, I feel like I don't need upgrade my chain anymore. If anyone is on the fence about it, just buy it, you wont regret it.

Shipping was much faster than I expected getting to me (U.S) in 4 days with the UPS shipping.

Running D70s -> FA-12 -> Focal Clear/6xx/Aeon 2


----------



## ecc35

ARCXENOS said:


> Whoops, forgot to mention I am in Singapore. The package route was Ukraine->China->SG, but from what I googled previously, it should be about 3 days towards the US (I assume since canada is close, it surely can't be too far off).
> 
> I have also asked him about the delivery options before, and this was his reply:
> 
> ...


Glad to hear that someone in Singapore ordered it and received quickly. Thinking of getting FA-12 to replace my A90 for a more musical sound. Will choose UPS if I decide to purchase. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Flak (Sep 14, 2021)

Summary if you don't want to read the paragraph below: I have a Bifrost 2 on the way, currently have a Modius + Asgard 3. I generally like the sound but feel like I'm missing something (not sure what). I am extremely sensitive to treble fatigue. Would the FA-10 be an upgrade from the Asgard 3 (other suggestions)? Would it pair well with the Bifrost 2? Headphones: 58X, K7XX, Sundara, Nighthawk, SR2, OG Clear Pro, possibly HE6SEv2 since they are on sale for 700.

How close is the FA-10 to the sound of an Asgard 3?  I recently go into headphones and started with a Modi 3 + Asgard 3.  But then my budget in headphones shot way up.  So I upgraded from the Modi 3 to the Modius.  But then from reviews and various forums I talked myself in to upgrading the Modius to a Bifrost 2 (Schiit is letting me return/exchange my Modius for a Bifrost 2).  And now I'm wondering if I'd gain anything upgrading the Asgard 3.  I like the sound I'm getting from my various headphones, but I feel like I'm missing something.  My current range of headphones: 58X, K7XX, Sundara, Nighthawks, SR2 and OG Clear Pros.  Planning on possibly getting HE6SEv2 since they are on sale again for 700.  Though the 58X, K7XX and Sundara have taken a shelf spot vs the other 3.  If I got a balanced amp I'd get balanced cables for the headphones that have them available.  I am extremely sensitive to treble fatigue.  Would the FA-10 be an upgrade from the Asgard 3?


----------



## ardbeg1975 (Sep 14, 2021)

Flak said:


> Summary if you don't want to read the paragraph below: I have a Bifrost 2 on the way, currently have a Modius + Asgard 3. I generally like the sound but feel like I'm missing something (not sure what). I am extremely sensitive to treble fatigue. Would the FA-10 be an upgrade from the Asgard 3 (other suggestions)? Would it pair well with the Bifrost 2? Headphones: 58X, K7XX, Sundara, Nighthawk, SR2, OG Clear Pro, possibly HE6SEv2 since they are on sale for 700.
> 
> How close is the FA-10 to the sound of an Asgard 3?  I recently go into headphones and started with a Modi 3 + Asgard 3.  But then my budget in headphones shot way up.  So I upgraded from the Modi 3 to the Modius.  But then from reviews and various forums I talked myself in to upgrading the Modius to a Bifrost 2 (Schiit is letting me return/exchange my Modius for a Bifrost 2).  And now I'm wondering if I'd gain anything upgrading the Asgard 3.  I like the sound I'm getting from my various headphones, but I feel like I'm missing something.  My current range of headphones: 58X, K7XX, Sundara, Nighthawks, SR2 and OG Clear Pros.  Planning on possibly getting HE6SEv2 since they are on sale again for 700.  Though the 58X, K7XX and Sundara have taken a shelf spot vs the other 3.  If I got a balanced amp I'd get balanced cables for the headphones that have them available.  I am extremely sensitive to treble fatigue.  Would the FA-10 be an upgrade from the Asgard 3?


I have a BF2 paired with a FA-22 and they work together quite well. That said, wait for the BF2 to arrive and test it out with the Asgard so as to change only one part of your chain at a time. I too upgraded from Modius to BF2 and I do not regret it in the least. Very fun, meaty multi-bit DAC. If after you’ve had it paired for a while with the Asgard, then consider the Flux.

Also, if you are treble sensitive, I believe the FA-12 / 12S are better for that than the FA-10 unless you need the power.


----------



## Ichos

I haven't heard the Asgard but non the FA-10 or the FA-12 are treble forward.
Frequency response is dead flat and the listening experience is warm and smooth.
I would choose the 10 for the meatier and more dynamic sound (and the power of course) and the 12 only if you have a fully balanced set up.
Another option is the 22 that sits somewhere between.
You can't go wrong with a Fluxlab amplifier.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Ichos said:


> I haven't heard the Asgard but non the FA-10 or the FA-12 are treble forward.
> Frequency response is dead flat and the listening experience is warm and smooth.
> I would choose the 10 for the meatier and more dynamic sound (and the power of course) and the 12 only if you have a fully balanced set up.
> Another option is the 22 that sits somewhere between.
> You can't go wrong with a Fluxlab amplifier.


I agree you cannot go wrong with the Flux and that they are all generally neutral. However, my perhaps mistaken impression from reading other posts on this thread was that on the very slight warmth coloring scale the FA-22 was the least warm followed by the FA-10 and then the FA-12. I’m also slightly treble sensitive and have no issue with the FA-22 but thought (again perhaps mistakenly) that someone who wanted the most warmth / subtle treble smoothing may lean toward the FA-12 (if they want balanced) or 12S if SE was sufficient.


----------



## Ichos

ardbeg1975 said:


> I agree you cannot go wrong with the Flux and that they are all generally neutral. However, my perhaps mistaken impression from reading other posts on this thread was that on the very slight warmth coloring scale the FA-22 was the least warm followed by the FA-10 and then the FA-12. I’m also slightly treble sensitive and have no issue with the FA-22 but thought (again perhaps mistakenly) that someone who wanted the most warmth / subtle treble smoothing may lean toward the FA-12 (if they want balanced) or 12S if SE was sufficient.


Your impressions are on the right track but the warmth of this amps is not related to their treble.
All three are smooth regarding the treble by means that it is not forward at all and in no way accentuated.
The warmth is about the bass response and the way that overall harmonics and overtones are presented.
So yes the FA-12 is the most warm in the way that sounds like a tube hybrid amplifier.
But bass is on the softer side while the FA-10 has a meatier and way more slamming presentation.
Not as smooth and warm as the FA-12 but differences are very subtle.
All Flux amps are musical and organic with very analog timbre.
I haven't heard the FA-22 but it must be the most neutral as not tubey and certainly not forward.

Other than tonal characteristics the FA-12 is best used with balanced sources because it works either only balanced or single ended.

By the end of the week I will have my FA-12 review including a FA-10 comparison.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Ichos said:


> Your impressions are on the right track but the warmth of this amps is not related to their treble.
> All three are smooth regarding the treble by means that it is not forward at all and in no way accentuated.
> The warmth is about the bass response and the way that overall harmonics and overtones are presented.
> So yes the FA-12 is the most warm in the way that sounds like a tube hybrid amplifier.
> ...


Thank you for your response and comparisons as I am only personally familiar with the FA-22. I got it specifically to offer an alternative presentation to a hybrid amp and transformer coupled tube amp which it certainly does. I like the FA-22 very much but it is certainly more neutral and than my other two. The Flux won’t cause me to get rid of the full tube amp but its general enjoyment factor may very well force the hybrid off the regular use cycle.


----------



## jonathan c

~ For me, there have been three great headphone audio surprise products / discoveries in 2021…and over three months are left!
~ Two are tubes: the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) and the Tungsram ECC81.
~ The third is: the Flux Lab FA-22 headphone amplifier. A solid-state piece of equipment that makes me forget that I am listening to a solid-state piece of equipment ! 😄


----------



## whitefang (Sep 16, 2021)

Flak said:


> Summary if you don't want to read the paragraph below: I have a Bifrost 2 on the way, currently have a Modius + Asgard 3. I generally like the sound but feel like I'm missing something (not sure what). I am extremely sensitive to treble fatigue. Would the FA-10 be an upgrade from the Asgard 3 (other suggestions)? Would it pair well with the Bifrost 2? Headphones: 58X, K7XX, Sundara, Nighthawk, SR2, OG Clear Pro, possibly HE6SEv2 since they are on sale for 700.
> 
> How close is the FA-10 to the sound of an Asgard 3?  I recently go into headphones and started with a Modi 3 + Asgard 3.  But then my budget in headphones shot way up.  So I upgraded from the Modi 3 to the Modius.  But then from reviews and various forums I talked myself in to upgrading the Modius to a Bifrost 2 (Schiit is letting me return/exchange my Modius for a Bifrost 2).  And now I'm wondering if I'd gain anything upgrading the Asgard 3.  I like the sound I'm getting from my various headphones, but I feel like I'm missing something.  My current range of headphones: 58X, K7XX, Sundara, Nighthawks, SR2 and OG Clear Pros.  Planning on possibly getting HE6SEv2 since they are on sale again for 700.  Though the 58X, K7XX and Sundara have taken a shelf spot vs the other 3.  If I got a balanced amp I'd get balanced cables for the headphones that have them available.  I am extremely sensitive to treble fatigue.  Would the FA-10 be an upgrade from the Asgard 3?




To me FA-10 is very slightly on the dark side, not because the treble is rolled-off but more like the lows and mids has more forward presence.
It is definitely not a bright amp that would cause treble issue, on the other hand it is also not going to tame a treble-hot system or headphone.
Unfortunately I dont have the Asgard 3 to compare, but FA-10 is certainly not brighter than the Magni 1 Magni 2 or Magnius.


----------



## nicastrino

Ichos said:


> Your impressions are on the right track but the warmth of this amps is not related to their treble.
> All three are smooth regarding the treble by means that it is not forward at all and in no way accentuated.
> The warmth is about the bass response and the way that overall harmonics and overtones are presented.
> So yes the FA-12 is the most warm in the way that sounds like a tube hybrid amplifier.
> ...


my FCN-10 just shipped yesterday and is on the way, DHL is quoting 5 business days for it.... your review of the FA-10 was a really strong consideration factor on why I chose the FCN-10

I'm definitely looking forward to your FA-12 review as i would also consider a FA12 just to see what it has to offer because the value proposition here seems good for the money and there is also lots of praise for it


----------



## Ichos

nicastrino said:


> my FCN-10 just shipped yesterday and is on the way, DHL is quoting 5 business days for it.... your review of the FA-10 was a really strong consideration factor on why I chose the FCN-10
> 
> I'm definitely looking forward to your FA-12 review as i would also consider a FA12 just to see what it has to offer because the value proposition here seems good for the money and there is also lots of praise for it


Thank you very much for reading my FCN-10 review.
Congratulations on your new unit i am sure that you are going to enjoy it a lot.

Do you have another source than the upcoming FCN-10 that you can use with the FA-12?

Although I don't see the point of purchasing the FA-12 since the FCN-10 is a hell lot of a do it all machine.
I don't think that you are going to need anything else.

What headphones are you using?


----------



## nicastrino

Haha you are very welcome but thank you for the review !

I am considering getting a source down the road something AKM 4499 based like a topping D90.... but as you said the FCN-10 is a complete all-in-one which is why i was inclined to it... i downsized my whole collection of headphones and amps from Audeze LCD-2, LCD-3, HiFiMan Arya, HiFiMan HE-1000Se and consolidated to down to just 1 pair of headphones, The Audeze LCD-4z....

I'm done with all the mid-fi stuff and blind buying and the mess of multiple boxes and pairings and just figured I'd get one TOTL headphone and TOTL amp/dac pairing (which doesn't cost an arm and a leg like a Chord Dave and WA-33) with it and call it a day, in my mind I'm thinking of getting another TOTL headphone down the road to complement the LCD-4z so maybe an AB-1266 TC or a Susvara if i could find a pair for a good deal because i think everything else would be redundant after that unless i go uber TOTL with a Chord Dave/Woo WA-33 stack which I don't think I'm ready to spend that kind of money on.


In any case i think the FCN-10 or FA-10 seem like pretty up there in terms of price>performance ratio and an amazing deal for the price... definitely a market disruptor and you might be right that i might not need a FA-12 but im still eager to hear your thoughts on a FA-10 <> FA-12 comparison


Cheers


----------



## Bilo

nicastrino said:


> Haha you are very welcome but thank you for the review !
> 
> I am considering getting a source down the road something AKM 4499 based like a topping D90.... but as you said the FCN-10 is a complete all-in-one which is why i was inclined to it... i downsized my whole collection of headphones and amps from Audeze LCD-2, LCD-3, HiFiMan Arya, HiFiMan HE-1000Se and consolidated to down to just 1 pair of headphones, The Audeze LCD-4z....
> 
> ...


I dont know if you've tried it but the D70s is great for the price. Its natural sounding and very detailed, aswell as readily available unlike the D90. You could get a D70s + FA-10 for not much more than the FCN-10.


----------



## Ichos

The FCN-10 is a killer combo amplifier - dac streamer with an analog and very engaging sound signature.
It can power any headphone on the planet and additionally you can use it for heating your room and frying your eggs....😁


----------



## RenEh (Sep 16, 2021)

Currently very happy with my Flux FA-12 amp and Ares 2 dac, but now I’m curious about dynamic headphones as I really only use planars now.

Has anyone tried this amp with the HD600? I keep hearing about how well they scale and curiosity has me wondering if this will solve my want for a good dynamic headphone, or if I should pony up to go back to the Elex I sold due to reliability worries.


----------



## Ichos

I have tried it with 650 , 660S , Elex , Clear MG.
Pairs well with everything although not recommended to spice up the 650.
Great synergy with the Focals thanks for the organic and analog timbre.
The Elex still sound kind of bright but very pleasantly so.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> I have tried it with 650 , 660S , Elex , Clear MG.
> Pairs well with everything although not recommended to spice up the 650.
> Great synergy with the Focals thanks for the organic and analog timbre.
> The Elex still sound kind of bright but very pleasantly so.


Thank you! Are you saying this amp doesn’t really bring out the “scalability” of the hd650?


----------



## Ichos

RenEh said:


> Thank you! Are you saying this amp doesn’t really bring out the “scalability” of the hd650?


No on the contrary but it can't make them more speedy or add some extra liveliness to them as you could do with a more fast or forward amp.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> No on the contrary but it can't make them more speedy or add some extra liveliness to them as you could do with a more fast or forward amp.


Thank you! I think my planars, Anandas, will fill the speedy and lively roll so no worries there.

Curiosity will probably get the better of me around Black Friday. Would you say there’s still a sizable step up to the Elex vs the hd650 with this amp or does scaling bring them closer together in performance?


----------



## Ichos

RenEh said:


> Thank you! I think my planars, Anandas, will fill the speedy and lively roll so no worries there.
> 
> Curiosity will probably get the better of me around Black Friday. Would you say there’s still a sizable step up to the Elex vs the hd650 with this amp or does scaling bring them closer together in performance?


They are very different and scaling or different electronics can't bring them together.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> They are very different and scaling or different electronics can't bring them together.


Thank you!


----------



## Flak

I'm sorry if I missed this somewhere, but how big are these amps?  Their descriptions on the website have the dimensions listed twice, it doesn't say what the dimensions are for but when converted the measurements don't match so they aren't for the same thing.  I don't have room for a 46x42x18cm (18x16x7in) amp, but I do have room for a 12.6x13.4x3.15in amp, which is the second set of dimensions listed.  There's also 2 different weight listed.


----------



## Deolum

RenEh said:


> Thank you! I think my planars, Anandas, will fill the speedy and lively roll so no worries there.
> 
> Curiosity will probably get the better of me around Black Friday. Would you say there’s still a sizable step up to the Elex vs the hd650 with this amp or does scaling bring them closer together in performance?


Ananda + FA-10 is a really good combination.


----------



## Majors

FA-22 12.5X12.2X3 inches


----------



## Flak

Thanks


----------



## RenEh

Flak said:


> I'm sorry if I missed this somewhere, but how big are these amps?  Their descriptions on the website have the dimensions listed twice, it doesn't say what the dimensions are for but when converted the measurements don't match so they aren't for the same thing.  I don't have room for a 46x42x18cm (18x16x7in) amp, but I do have room for a 12.6x13.4x3.15in amp, which is the second set of dimensions listed.  There's also 2 different weight listed.


Flipping huge. Think American medium pizza box.


----------



## Majors

Have you seen the VOLOT 😳


----------



## nicastrino

Bilo said:


> I dont know if you've tried it but the D70s is great for the price. Its natural sounding and very detailed, aswell as readily available unlike the D90. You could get a D70s + FA-10 for not much more than the FCN-10.


The FCN-10 has two AKM 4493 chips which brings its acoustic performance pretty much in line with a single 4497 as found in the d70s so I don’t think there would be any discernible difference in getting a d70s.

it seems the FCN-10 is really a great deal as it is for a all-in-one solution plus the fact that the previous all-in-one Flux manufactured the Atlas was a $5000 offering which was highly regarded so it I’m pretty confident they are competent enough and know how to properly implement the DAC because of previous experience.


----------



## Bilo

nicastrino said:


> The FCN-10 has two AKM 4493 chips which brings its acoustic performance pretty much in line with a single 4497 as found in the d70s so I don’t think there would be any discernible difference in getting a d70s.
> 
> it seems the FCN-10 is really a great deal as it is for a all-in-one solution plus the fact that the previous all-in-one Flux manufactured the Atlas was a $5000 offering which was highly regarded so it I’m pretty confident they are competent enough and know how to properly implement the DAC because of previous experience.


Im sure its a very good product, and you'll be happy with either one. I am just throwing out other options based on my experience, the d70s has two 4497's btw.


----------



## nicastrino (Sep 17, 2021)

Bilo said:


> Im sure its a very good product, and you'll be happy with either one. I am just throwing out other options based on my experience, the d70s has two 4497's btw.


Oh, pardon my ignorance I quickly glanced the spec on the dual 4497 and totally missed that 

yeah I guess dual 4497 would be yield performance close to a 4499 so the Topping d70s is definitely something to consider …but yeah as you said I think I will be content with the FCN-10 and was just pointing the topping d90 as something I would like to try in the future but I don’t think the difference will be vast… either way this is all speculation based on what I gathered from here.. I still have to hear it for my self and report back but I do have high hopes.


----------



## patatchod

Ichos said:


> By the end of the week I will have my FA-12 review including a FA-10 comparison.


I would be very interested by your thoughts...

(I think the week is over, isn't it ? )


----------



## Ichos (Sep 17, 2021)

patatchod said:


> I would be very interested by your thoughts...
> 
> (I think the week is over, isn't it ? )


There is a certain delay so kindly bare on me...

I need to freshly A/B in order to be 100% certain for something.


----------



## Flak

Can the FA-10 be used with more sensitive things like IEMs and still have useable space on the volume knob?


----------



## Ichos

Flak said:


> Can the FA-10 be used with more sensitive things like IEMs and still have useable space on the volume knob?


From I what remember the amp is a little noisy with Iems.
I can later today or tomorrow.
What Iems do you have, maybe I have them too?


----------



## Bilo

nicastrino said:


> Oh, pardon my ignorance I quickly glanced the spec on the dual 4497 and totally missed that
> 
> yeah I guess dual 4497 would be yield performance close to a 4499 so the Topping d70s is definitely something to consider …but yeah as you said I think I will be content with the FCN-10 and was just pointing the topping d90 as something I would like to try in the future but I don’t think the difference will be vast… either way this is all speculation based on what I gathered from here.. I still have to hear it for my self and report back but I do have high hopes.


Yeah, difference is always minor with DAC's, its more about the features and form factor in my opinion. I would love to hear your experience with the FCN-10 because its one of the ones I was thinking about getting before I got my chain now.


----------



## Ichos




----------



## Flak

Ichos said:


> From I what remember the amp is a little noisy with Iems.
> I can later today or tomorrow.
> What Iems do you have, maybe I have them too?


I don't currently have IEMs.  I keep looking at various IEMs but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  Just trying to make sure I'd have the capability if I did end up getting some IEMs.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


>


Ooh I have the same set up with the fa-12 and Ares 2. Make sure you feed the Ares 2 a good spdif signal  

Stop making me want to spend more money on headphones lol.


----------



## dermott

RenEh said:


> Ooh I have the same set up with the fa-12 and Ares 2. Make sure you feed the Ares 2 a good spdif signal
> 
> Stop making me want to spend more money on headphones lol.


Would the coax out on a Bluesound Node 2i be considered good?


----------



## Ichos (Sep 17, 2021)

RenEh said:


> Ooh I have the same set up with the fa-12 and Ares 2. Make sure you feed the Ares 2 a good spdif signal
> 
> Stop making me want to spend more money on headphones lol.


Currently I am feeling it with Digi one signature alternating with iFi ZEN Stream.
Pretty good I guess!

BTW, this is an excellent set up so it makes sense to send your money on headphones! 👹


----------



## RenEh (Sep 17, 2021)

dermott said:


> Would the coax out on a Bluesound Node 2i be considered good?


I use a pi2aes, and I’ve also tried a digione. I’m not a measurements only audiophile, but everyone seems to love the the above on subjective/objective forums. It’s ugly though lol.

The node 2i as far as I know hasn’t had it’s spdif out measured. Apparently it’s toslink in is broken though. So I dunno.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> BTW, this is an excellent set up so it makes sense to send your money on headphones! 👹



Noooooo begone temptress.


----------



## okan

ARCXENOS said:


> Ordered on the 29th of August, my FA-10 finally arrived and I am extremely amazed at it. The bass and instrument separation on my HE1000 V2 from the FA-10 is fantastic, and is what I would consider the main draw if someone asks me about them. At 750 USD (+ shipping and paypal fees, total was iirc 880 USD), I am shocked that there aren't more people talking about it or even recommending it.
> 
> If you are interested in ordering an unit, the timeline was like this for me :
> - 5 working days to receive order confirmation, don't be shocked if you don't get the confirmation within the day of payment.
> ...


I have also pegasus with flux fa-10 and he6se sounds really great. I don't think I'll touch my dac-amp-headphone combo for a long time. Does I2S connection make a huge difference? I am currently using pegasus over usb. I was thinking to buy matrix x-spdif 2 to use pegasus over I2S but I couldn't be sure if it is worth to buy a DDC device also. Good ones are expensive. Also, are you happy with the Iris? Any issues when you try to connect I2S?


----------



## Ichos

RenEh said:


> Noooooo begone temptress.


Hehe....


----------



## Ichos

Flak said:


> Can the FA-10 be used with more sensitive things like IEMs and still have useable space on the volume knob?


I have tested with the FiiO FD3 which are sensitive.
The usable pot is about half way till it gets really loud.
But there is static noise even with the pot turned down to zero.


----------



## RenEh

okan said:


> I have also pegasus with flux fa-10 and he6se sounds really great. I don't think I'll touch my dac-amp-headphone combo for a long time. Does I2S connection make a huge difference? I am currently using pegasus over usb. I was thinking to buy matrix x-spdif 2 to use pegasus over I2S but I couldn't be sure if it is worth to buy a DDC device also. Good ones are expensive. Also, are you happy with the Iris? Any issues when you try to connect I2S?


I don't know how good USB implementation is on your DAC, but there are noticeable differences with USB, coax spdif and toslink on the ares2. If I could feed it I2S I would. 

Usb-> Sounds noisy from a Mac Mini. Like an inaudible, but grating high pitch noise. 
Toslink-> Softer presentation more laid back (compared to coax with Blue Jeans Toslink)
Coax Spdif-> Sharper transients gives the music a bit of edge. (This is my preference, I use a Blue Jeans coax)

IMO on Toslink the Ananda's lose too much much of their edge with this combo, but I could see toslink being the preferred choice depending on synergy.


----------



## Flak

Ichos said:


> I have tested with the FiiO FD3 which are sensitive.
> The usable pot is about half way till it gets really loud.
> But there is static noise even with the pot turned down to zero.


Thanks, and just to confirm that was also on low gain?  Was hoping to go FA-10 to get HE6SEv2 on sale at Adorama....    I guess I'll just skip the HE6SEv2 and get an FA-22....


----------



## Ichos

Yes low gain.
Why do you need such an amp for iems?
I only use them with dongles or daps.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> Yes low gain.
> Why do you need such an amp for iems?
> I only use them with dongles or daps.


The Fa-12 in single ended works great with IEM’s.


----------



## Ichos

RenEh said:


> The Fa-12 in single ended works great with IEM’s.


Yes as from the single end is considerably less powerful than the FA-10 and way more silent with blacker background.
Still I don't use Iems with large amplifiers.


----------



## nicastrino

Bilo said:


> Yeah, difference is always minor with DAC's, its more about the features and form factor in my opinion. I would love to hear your experience with the FCN-10 because its one of the ones I was thinking about getting before I got my chain now.


Yes for sure I will post my listening impressions on the FCN-10, and this is the exact reason I got it because it’s class A, powerful as heck, and is an all-in-one.

By the way what is your chain looking like?


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 5, 2021)

[duplicate deleted]


----------



## Bilo

nicastrino said:


> Yes for sure I will post my listening impressions on the FCN-10, and this is the exact reason I got it because it’s class A, powerful as heck, and is an all-in-one.
> 
> By the way what is your chain looking like?


D70s -> FA-12 / 887 -> Focal Clear, 6xx, Aeon 2

Went with the FA-12 to get some warmth in the chain. I absolutely love it with the Clears.


----------



## RenEh

Bilo said:


> D70s -> FA-12 / 887 -> Focal Clear, 6xx, Aeon 2
> 
> Went with the FA-12 to get some warmth in the chain. I absolutely love it with the Clears.


Could you tell me how the 6xx pairs with your chain?

I use to own an Elex and sold it due to reliability worries. I’m thinking of getting an hd600 as a replacement.


----------



## ARCXENOS (Sep 18, 2021)

okan said:


> I have also pegasus with flux fa-10 and he6se sounds really great. I don't think I'll touch my dac-amp-headphone combo for a long time. Does I2S connection make a huge difference? I am currently using pegasus over usb. I was thinking to buy matrix x-spdif 2 to use pegasus over I2S but I couldn't be sure if it is worth to buy a DDC device also. Good ones are expensive. Also, are you happy with the Iris? Any issues when you try to connect I2S?


I did not do a scientific A/B tests, not even regular double blind tests, but comparing I2S vs Coaxial vs direct USB, I believe it sounds better on I2S. But with that said, I will not recommend people to spend money without trying it out first, because I myself don't know if its really a sonic improvement, or just psychoacoustics (but it did help me in the sense that I stop thinking about usb implementation woes )

If you do still want to get a DDC, please do find out if there is a local place for you to try it out first. Also do note, there is no industry standard for I2S pin layouts, so please be aware of what pins the DDC is using before buying.  As for the Iris, I am happy with it, connecting the pegasus to iris has no compatibility issues, as mode 5 of the pegasus has the exact pin layout the iris requires, no latency whatsoever.

And yes, I think my FA-10 chain is what I would pretty much use up to the point when I am ready to go for the susvara. Then I can greatly consider the volot, because I believe in flux acoustic's ability to deliver.


----------



## okan

RenEh said:


> I don't know how good USB implementation is on your DAC, but there are noticeable differences with USB, coax spdif and toslink on the ares2. If I could feed it I2S I would.
> 
> Usb-> Sounds noisy from a Mac Mini. Like an inaudible, but grating high pitch noise.
> Toslink-> Softer presentation more laid back (compared to coax with Blue Jeans Toslink)
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Dac is already sounding awesome for my taste but if I2S would improve it, then I would definitely try I2S. 





ARCXENOS said:


> I did not do a scientific A/B tests, not even regular double blind tests, but comparing I2S vs Coaxial vs direct USB, I believe it sounds better on I2S. But with that said, I will not recommend people to spend money without trying it out first, because I myself don't know if its really a sonic improvement, or just psychoacoustics (but it did help me in the sense that I stop thinking about usb implementation woes )
> 
> If you do still want to get a DDC, please do find out if there is a local place for you to try it out first. Also do note, there is no industry standard for I2S pin layouts, so please be aware of what pins the DDC is using before buying.  As for the Iris, I am happy with it, connecting the pegasus to iris has no compatibility issues, as mode 5 of the pegasus has the exact pin layout the iris requires, no latency whatsoever.
> 
> And yes, I think my FA-10 chain is what I would pretty much use up to the point when I am ready to go for the susvara. Then I can greatly consider the volot, because I believe in flux acoustic's ability to deliver.



Thanks. I don't think I'll be able to find any store to try it in Montreal. There are some shops but they mainly allow us to demo headphones or dacs. Maybe I can grab one as used and if it won't work for me I can sell it. Musician provided some DDC and streamers which work well with pegasus. Iris is not in the list. If it works with pegasus then iris might be a good choice to try.


----------



## drmmr

Just got my FA-10, this thing is soooooo much larger than I expected! No clue where I’m gonna be able to fit this


----------



## XVampireX

drmmr said:


> Just got my FA-10, this thing is soooooo much larger than I expected! No clue where I’m gonna be able to fit this


Congrats, Have fun, and let us know how it is.


----------



## Flak

drmmr said:


> Just got my FA-10, this thing is soooooo much larger than I expected! No clue where I’m gonna be able to fit this


What are the measurements of the FA-10?


----------



## jonathan c

drmmr said:


> Just got my FA-10, this thing is soooooo much larger than I expected! No clue where I’m gonna be able to fit this


I have _plenty_ of room in my study 😏…


----------



## drmmr (Sep 19, 2021)

Currently A/B-ing vs. my GLMk2 with both being fed by the Magic DAC. Listening on LCD-GX. Right off the bat I can definitely sense a difference in separation, will continue to update as I do more listening.

EDITS:
- Definitely more spacious in general. Everything is farther apart in their own respective zones. It's like 170° of stage vs. 180°. Even if not a huge difference, allows for the better separation I mentioned.
- Related, better imaging as well (but again not by a huge margin)
- Low end is much punchier on the Gilmore but quite a bit cleaner on the FA-10, can't decide which I prefer

Unrelated, but the relays (I think?) clicking when you change the volume is so satisfying.


----------



## Ichos

Hello dear friends, at last I have finished my review of the FA-12 with a comparison to the FA-10.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/review/26843/

I would like to kindly thank Vitaliy for his patience since the review was very delayed.

Thank you for reading and I would be interested in your thoughts.


----------



## drmmr

After a handful of hours A/B-ing my general thoughts are that the Gilmore is like sitting in front of the speakers at a rock concert and the FA-10 is like sitting in the back of the concert hall listening to an orchestra. The sound profiles are very similar, but with the FA-10 you lose some of the punch in favor of a grander and more open sound. 

My goal with this was to determine whether or not the GLMk2 + GRPS can still compete at this price point with the introduction of all these new Flux products. In my opinion, at this point there's no reason to pick one up over the FA-10. While it's by no means a bad deal, the FA-10 takes a lot of things that make the Gilmore great and improves upon them. I think the loss of low-end punch is a more than fair trade off for refinements in stage, imaging, and transparency. Again they aim for a very similar sound (warm-leaning, slightly toned down treble, good low end depth) and so in my eyes they are direct competitors. 

Hopefully this might help somebody down the line trying to decide on what to go for at this price range. If we're talking new from manufacturer specifically, FA-10 is a no brainer. Though secondhand the Gilmore + PS sometimes goes for half of retail, so at that point I think it's a steal. Regardless I don't think there's a wrong choice between these two. Personally, I will be holding onto the FA-10 as I don't feel there's a reason to keep both.


----------



## The Hawk (Sep 19, 2021)

Flak said:


> What are the measurements of the FA-10?


18 x 16.5 x 7

Edit: Read the wrong area in the description on the Flux site. The above is the shipping dimensions 

12.6 x 13.4 x 3.15 inch


----------



## Majors

Those are the box dimensions i'm pretty sure.


----------



## The Hawk

Majors said:


> Those are the box dimensions i'm pretty sure.


Yep……believe you’re right 🤣

I just checked my FA-12……

12.5 x 10 x 3


----------



## Majors

My new traveling setup. I wonder if OCD Mikey approves. 🤔


----------



## Ichos

Majors said:


> My new traveling setup. I wonder if OCD Mikey approves. 🤔


You carry this beast with you while traveling?


----------



## Majors

Of course... What would I use a dap?


----------



## Ichos

Majors said:


> Of course... What would I use a dap?


Well, that is a big travel bag that you have 😃


----------



## Majors

Yeah it's hilarious to me what I started out with and what I'm carrying now.


----------



## jonathan c

Majors said:


> Yeah it's hilarious to me what I started out with and what I'm carrying now.


I think that the setup is too small for travel. You should be hauling Volot.


----------



## Majors

My second travel system is a dap sort of. Rockboxed IMOD to VCap ALO cables to...


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> I think that the setup is too small for travel. You should be hauling Volot.


In fact, you could carry the h/p/a in a knapsack strapped over both shoulders. The knapsack could have the Flux emblem on it…this would, of course, be the Travolot…😆😒…


----------



## Majors

I'm in, sign me up. 😁


----------



## nicastrino

cfranchi said:


> Do you have some problem to do airplay with FCN10 ? I follow the procedure given by Flux and all seems ok, I can see fcn10 in the airplay devices (iphone 12) but when I play music nothing happen and fcn10 disappear from my airplay devices. Any idea?


I received my FCN-10 3 days ago an i am still in the process of letting it burn in for a couple more days before i listen to it and give my impressions.... 

Regarding AirPlay... the moment i received my FCN-10 right away i switched it to LAN mode and updated the OS from moOde 7.1.0 to 7.3.0 (the update process is super simple.... 

browse to http://yourfcnip in your browser
 click on the M icon on the top right corner > Configure > System
 scroll down a little bit and find "File System" and click on the "Expand File System" button ... once that is done you can click on Check for update on the top of the page....

once you press update be patient it can take some time i cannot recall maybe 5 or 10 minutes ..... once it is done it will tell you to refresh the page ... now go again and press "Check for update"

i had to update it 3 times as it seems each update it updated incrementally instead of downloading the latest one....


Once i was fully updated and there were no updates to install i headed back over the the Configure > System page and disabled "HDMI Port" and "BT Adapter" just in case as they are not needed anyways.


Now you can click on 
M icon > Configure > Audio
Scroll down to "Airplay Renderer" section and make sure it is ON, maybe try giving it a new name... also maybe try to to click restart Airplay Render or turning the radio button off then on.

basically i think it works out of box just make sure you are updated to the latest MoOde OS

Hopefully this fixes it for you


----------



## Infoseeker

If you guys want a portable setup on a serious note. The ibasso current gen daps output 2A.  (Dx300 & dx300max)

And if you get the dx300 with the original amp11mki module, you can get an output upto 2.7A.






On another note, I had to use -10dn RCA attenuators to connect my Chord Hugo 2 to my FA-10 amp. (Set at the amp's end)


----------



## cfranchi

nicastrino said:


> I received my FCN-10 3 days ago an i am still in the process of letting it burn in for a couple more days before i listen to it and give my impressions....
> 
> Regarding AirPlay... the moment i received my FCN-10 right away i switched it to LAN mode and updated the OS from moOde 7.1.0 to 7.3.0 (the update process is super simple....
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your detailed investigation, I’ll check from my side as soon as possible


----------



## nicastrino (Sep 25, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> Thank you very much for your detailed investigation, I’ll check from my side as soon as possible


No worries, essentially all I did was update the system to the latest version (just make sure to click on the ‘Expand Filesystem’ option or else the update will fail with error about not enough space) and make sure to run the Check for updates a few time until there are no updates left… if I remember correctly in my case I had to install 3 sets of updates to get to current version  of moOde 7.3.0 which also brings equalizer enhancements if you use those.

Also another thing to add if you are using Spotify Premium as i am, go into the Audio settings by clicking on:

 M icon  > Audio settings, then scrolling down to the 'Spotify Renderer' section and clicking edit then switching 'Bitrate' from 160k to 320k if you have Spotify Premium as it defaults to 160K. The 320Kbps bitrate will only work if you are a Spotify Premium user.


----------



## realmassy

Ichos said:


> Hello dear friends, at last I have finished my review of the FA-12 with a comparison to the FA-10.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/review/26843/
> 
> ...


Nice review and comparison…now I know I’ll get the FA-12 as solid state amp, sometime in the future


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> Nice review and comparison…now I know I’ll get the FA-12 as solid state amp, sometime in the future


Thank you!


----------



## nicastrino (Oct 4, 2021)

duplicate reply by accident /edited


----------



## cfranchi

nicastrino said:


> I received my FCN-10 3 days ago an i am still in the process of letting it burn in for a couple more days before i listen to it and give my impressions....
> 
> Regarding AirPlay... the moment i received my FCN-10 right away i switched it to LAN mode and updated the OS from moOde 7.1.0 to 7.3.0 (the update process is super simple....
> 
> ...



My moODe OS is quite old : v4.1 2018
When I check for update it told me that software is up to date!
I'm tired, I can't do airplay and was hoping for moOde OS update, I asked to Flux


----------



## cfranchi

Flux told me that I have to open fcn10 and replace SD card by a new one containg iso file of latest moode OS.
And I’m still not sure it will fix my Airplay issue.


----------



## Ichos

You can also try Volumio.


----------



## nicastrino (Sep 29, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> Flux told me that I have to open fcn10 and replace SD card by a new one containg iso file of latest moode OS.
> And I’m still not sure it will fix my Airplay issue.


Yes you must update 4.1 is quite old (current version is 7.3) and this is almost certainly why you have issues with Airplay.

I guess your only choice is to open the case and replace the SD card with a new card that has the latest moOde iso burned to it… this should be quite easy to do you just need an 8GB sdcard that’s at least class 10 or higher and download the latest zip from http://moodeaudio.org/ and flash it onto the sdcard. Then after that you just pop it in connect via an Ethernet cable to your network and do the initial setup like wifi when you first got it.

its a very easy process and as @Ichos pointed out if you are going to flash an SD card you can also consider trying Volumio  but be aware that Volumio is mostly subscription based and i would recommend you stay with moOde as it’s free unless you need a specific feature of Volumio like the Qobuz plugin

Regardless it would be worthwhile to update the OS as there have been many new improvements introduced since the really old version you have from 2018.

Airplay should work on both moOde or Volumio whichever you chose to go with

edit:the module ‘shareport-sync’ that moOde uses for Airplay has gone through many revisions since 2018 and also if you google shareport-sync Airplay disconnecting or disappears you will see many results where people who report issues are all using old versions like 4.x … you’re best bet is to do update… if your FCN-10 has an 8GB an SD card you should just format it and flash the latest ISO to it instead of having to buy a new SD card, and also once you update to 7.x any subsequent updates will be done simply inside moOde by clicking update

It’s worth your time to do the update - best of luck!


----------



## cfranchi (Oct 1, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> My moODe OS is quite old : v4.1 2018
> When I check for update it told me that software is up to date!
> I'm tired, I can't do airplay and was hoping for moOde OS update, I asked to Flux



I solved my FCN10 airplay issue (thank you Google) didn’t need to update moOde OS : in moOde Airplay settings, change 16 bits sample to 32 bits, it now works.

https://moodeaudio.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=657


----------



## Ichos

Sometimes solutions are more simple than we do think!


----------



## cfranchi

Yep…


----------



## nicastrino (Oct 4, 2021)

cfranchi said:


> I solved my FCN10 airplay issue (thank you Google) didn’t need to update moOde OS : in moOde Airplay settings, change 16 bits sample to 32 bits, it now works.
> 
> https://moodeaudio.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=657


That’s a awesome to hear..good job!! - certainly much easier than physically opening the box to reflash the SD card


----------



## cfranchi

nicastrino said:


> That’s a awesome to hear..good job!! - certainly much easier than physically opening the box to reflash the SD card



Yes, I didn’t want to take that road…


----------



## Ichos

MoOde is now at 7.4.1 , if you guys are using an older version I suggest that you should flash this one.
Better performance.


----------



## Virtu Fortuna

I just reviewed the new FA-22 Amplifier and it's a recommendation!

https://www.headfonia.com/flux-lab-acoustics-fa-22-review/


----------



## Ichos

Great!
It seems that everything that we have tested from Flux Labs is excellent.
You can't go wrong with them, very natural and musical sounding products.
They now have three amplifiers with the same price, common sound approach with a few differences here and there to appeal to a variety of users.
Now I am waiting/wanting them to make a stand alone DAC.


----------



## ecc35

Ichos said:


> Great!
> It seems that everything that we have tested from Flux Labs is excellent.
> You can't go wrong with them, very natural and musical sounding products.
> They now have three amplifiers with the same price, common sound approach with a few differences here and there to appeal to a variety of users.
> Now I am waiting/wanting them to make a stand alone DAC.


It just makes choosing harder...


----------



## Ichos

ecc35 said:


> It just makes choosing harder...


Well, yes if you have various headphones and varying tastes in sound preferences.
But mind you that we are talking about minimal differences.
The philosophy design behind all amps is the same.


----------



## ecc35

Ichos said:


> Well, yes if you have various headphones and varying tastes in sound preferences.
> But mind you that we are talking about minimal differences.
> The philosophy design behind all amps is the same.


I see. I have not heard them so can only base on others reviews. I don't need the power of FA-10, but can't decide between FA-12 and FA-22. I am also not sure what's the advantage of going fully balanced. I have D90 and my headphone cables are both balanced. So with FA-12 I can have a 'fully balanced' set up. But what does that translate into in terms of sound quality? I want a sound that is more lively and musical than A90, which seems to point to FA-12. I also want better layering and placement, which seems to point to FA-22. ATH-AWAS should be a piece of cake for both. Not sure which can drive ZMF Eikon better. Really appreciate if anyone with these amps and headphones to give your impressions.


----------



## Ichos

I am waiting for the FA-22 so I can compare it with FA-12.
Meanwhile the FA-12 ticks all the boxes because it is lively and very musical in a soft handed manner.
Going fully balanced is about retaining signal integrity from source to headphone.
In theory since the D90 is inherently fully balanced design it should yield better results in a fully balanced set up.
Some people are obsessed with retaining integrity and others just don't bother.
It is up to you to decide.


----------



## ecc35

Ichos said:


> I am waiting for the FA-22 so I can compare it with FA-12.
> Meanwhile the FA-12 ticks all the boxes because it is lively and very musical in a soft handed manner.
> Going fully balanced is about retaining signal integrity from source to headphone.
> In theory since the D90 is inherently fully balanced design it should yield better results in a fully balanced set up.
> ...


Thanks for the explanation and inputs, really appreciate it.


----------



## Deolum

Fluxlabs FA-10 is the only amp i know that literally drives every headphone. From IEMs to Susvara. Only on sensitive BA IEMs it has a slight hissing but it absolutely acceptable. Very impressive.


----------



## Slim1970

Deolum said:


> Fluxlabs FA-10 is the only amp i know that literally drives every headphone. From IEMs to Susvara. Only on sensitive BA IEMs it has a slight hissing but it absolutely acceptable. Very impressive.


And it sounds very good with the Susvara's too!


----------



## rmsanger

Virtu Fortuna said:


> I just reviewed the new FA-22 Amplifier and it's a recommendation!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/flux-lab-acoustics-fa-22-review/



Beautiful amp Flux!


----------



## XLR2XLR

ecc35 said:


> I see. I have not heard them so can only base on others reviews. I don't need the power of FA-10, but can't decide between FA-12 and FA-22. I am also not sure what's the advantage of going fully balanced. I have D90 and my headphone cables are both balanced. So with FA-12 I can have a 'fully balanced' set up. But what does that translate into in terms of sound quality? I want a sound that is more lively and musical than A90, which seems to point to FA-12. I also want better layering and placement, which seems to point to FA-22. ATH-AWAS should be a piece of cake for both. Not sure which can drive ZMF Eikon better. Really appreciate if anyone with these amps and headphones to give your impressions.


Here's my 2¢, since I've had some of these devices.

Once I bought the Schiit Yggy A2/U, I didn't want to listen to the D90 and ADI-2 anymore – to my ears, Yggy produced more natural timbre. The same thing happened when I bought the FA-12 and compared it to my A90. I found the sound signature of the FA-12 more holographic with a wider soundstage. 

I'm super happy with the FA-12 but can't wait to receive the Volot I ordered a month ago. According to my listening experience and positive reviews on the web, the Flux guys definitely know how to make great-sounding audio gear. I'm sure you can't go wrong with any of their products.


----------



## ecc35

XLR2XLR said:


> Here's my 2¢, since I've had some of these devices.
> 
> Once I bought the Schiit Yggy A2/U, I didn't want to listen to the D90 and ADI-2 anymore – to my ears, Yggy produced more natural timbre. The same thing happened when I bought the FA-12 and compared it to my A90. I found the sound signature of the FA-12 more holographic with a wider soundstage.
> 
> I'm super happy with the FA-12 but can't wait to receive the Volot I ordered a month ago. According to my listening experience and positive reviews on the web, the Flux guys definitely know how to make great-sounding audio gear. I'm sure you can't go wrong with any of their products.


Thanks for your input. Glad to hear someone who moved from A90 to FA-12. Seems to be a step in the right direction I am looking for.


----------



## XLR2XLR

ecc35 said:


> Thanks for your input. Glad to hear someone who moved from A90 to FA-12. Seems to be a step in the right direction I am looking for.


I'm sure you won't be disappointed. 
I forgot to mention that the FA-12 also made me sell the Jot 2. It sounded kind of shouty with a narrower soundstage compared to the FA-12.


----------



## dermott

XLR2XLR said:


> I'm sure you won't be disappointed.
> I forgot to mention that the FA-12 also made me sell the Jot 2. It sounded kind of shouty with a narrower soundstage compared to the FA-12.


I like what you have to say about the FA-12 as this is what I am considering as my upgrade from my Jot 1. I have a V2 Arya (not the new V3 Stealth Magnet) arriving next week and am very excited. I see that you have the Arya listed among your cans and wanted to know what your thoughts were on what the FA-12 brings to those in particular. From what others say, the FA-12 leaning a little warmer/romantic might smooth over some of the V2 Arya brightness (?) Does the FA-12 have enough juice to drive them or should Arya owners be looking more to the FA-10?


----------



## Ichos

It has the Arya for breakfast...


----------



## dermott

Ichos said:


> It has the Arya for breakfast...


without indigestion?


----------



## Ichos

dermott said:


> without indigestion?


And still hungry...


----------



## dermott

Ichos said:


> And still hungry...


Nice. R2R DAC too much of a double dip with FA-12? Sounds like Schiit multi-bit stuff is a good fit. How about Pontus II and FA-12?


----------



## Ichos

dermott said:


> Nice. R2R DAC too much of a double dip with FA-12? Sounds like Schiit multi-bit stuff is a good fit. How about Pontus II and FA-12?


I reviewed the FA-12 with Ares II and Venus II.
Nothing like a double dip.
Magical experience.

BTW , have you read the review?

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/review/26843/


----------



## dermott

Ichos said:


> I reviewed the FA-12 with Ares II and Venus II.
> Nothing like a double dip.
> Magical experience.
> 
> ...


Good stuff! Thanks!


----------



## jonathan c

dermott said:


> Nice. R2R DAC too much of a double dip with FA-12? Sounds like Schiit multi-bit stuff is a good fit. How about Pontus II and FA-12?


An indirect response. The combination of Mojo Audio EVO Mystique DAC (nos/r2r) and the FA-22 lacks _nothing_ in clarity, dynamics, expressiveness, naturalness.


----------



## XLR2XLR

dermott said:


> I like what you have to say about the FA-12 as this is what I am considering as my upgrade from my Jot 1. I have a V2 Arya (not the new V3 Stealth Magnet) arriving next week and am very excited. I see that you have the Arya listed among your cans and wanted to know what your thoughts were on what the FA-12 brings to those in particular. From what others say, the FA-12 leaning a little warmer/romantic might smooth over some of the V2 Arya brightness (?) Does the FA-12 have enough juice to drive them or should Arya owners be looking more to the FA-10?


The FA-12 has more than enough power to make the Arya sing.

I already sold my Arya v.2 because I'd never been super impressed with their sound. I liked their clean and strong bass and how comfortable they were, but the rest wasn't much more than just "okay" to my taste. Every time I wanted to listen to music with open-back headphones, I ended up doing it with the Stax SR-L700 MKII.

One of my best audio discoveries of 2021 is the Audeze LCD-XC (2021 version). The soundstage they produce is very spacious, the instrument separation is excellent –  they sound almost like open-backs. The LCD-XC is not very comfortable. They are the heaviest headphones I've ever had, and I consider them a diving helmet, but when I put them on my head, I simply dive into the sea of sound and don't want to return to shore for hours. They are currently my favorite closed-back headphones.


----------



## dermott

XLR2XLR said:


> The FA-12 has more than enough power to make the Arya sing.
> 
> I already sold my Arya v.2 because I'd never been super impressed with their sound. I liked their clean and strong bass and how comfortable they were, but the rest wasn't much more than just "okay" to my taste. Every time I wanted to listen to music with open-back headphones, I ended up doing it with the Stax SR-L700 MKII.
> 
> One of my best audio discoveries of 2021 is the Audeze LCD-XC (2021 version). The soundstage they produce is very spacious, the instrument separation is excellent –  they sound almost like open-backs. The LCD-XC is not very comfortable. They are the heaviest headphones I've ever had, and I consider them a diving helmet, but when I put them on my head, I simply dive into the sea of sound and don't want to return to shore for hours. They are currently my favorite closed-back headphones.


My other cans are the Audeze LCD-2 pre-fazor, so I wanted to get something very different from that. I think the V2 Arya seems to be a good foil for those, but I want to balance out some of what people say are their shortcomings. Sounds like a strong, Class A amp is a good place to start, and I think the FA-12 might just do the trick.


----------



## cglin222

Ichos said:


>


Where did you get the black knob on fa10
I am planning to order fa10 amp from their site but all I see is silver knob
Thanks


----------



## Ichos

cglin222 said:


> Where did you get the black knob on fa10
> I am planning to order fa10 amp from their site but all I see is silver knob
> Thanks


This is how it came from Flux Labs for the review.
You should mail Vitaliy and ask about the options.
I much prefer it with the black one.


----------



## The Hawk (Oct 11, 2021)

cglin222 said:


> Where did you get the black knob on fa10
> I am planning to order fa10 amp from their site but all I see is silver knob
> Thanks



During checkout there’s a box labelled “NOTES”

In that box you can request to have a black knob installed. You can also request to have the remote volume control installed as well. The latter will prompt an email from the Flux team as that one has a $25 USD fee


----------



## Ichos

The Hawk said:


> During checkout there’s a box labelled “NOTES”
> 
> In that box you can request to have a black knob installed. You can also request to have the remote volume control installed as well. The latter will prompt an email from the Flux team as that one has a $25 USD fee


Wow I didn't know that!
You can have remote control on Flux amps with only $25?
Great option!


----------



## The Hawk

Ichos said:


> Wow I didn't know that!
> You can have remote control on Flux amps with only $25?
> Great option!


Yep.....at least that’s what it cost me when I ordered my FA-12S back in March.

 Well worth it IMO.


----------



## Fafner

Imho they should have these little things better covered on their site. 
But can't complain, this feature was offered for free with the Volot.


----------



## cglin222

Should I go for the fa10 or pro version is I am planning to add it to Venus ii dac?
Headphones I have : hd800 og, he6se v2, adx5000, zmf verite closed
I think pro maybe be a good choice, even if later I decide to connect delta sigma dac, pro should not sound worse though. 
trying to strike a balance between my cans and if I do decide to charge dac to ds dac
Any advice? Thanks


----------



## cglin222

cglin222 said:


> Should I go for the fa10 or pro version is I am planning to add it to Venus ii dac?
> Headphones I have : hd800 og, he6se v2, adx5000, zmf verite closed
> I think pro maybe be a good choice, even if later I decide to connect delta sigma dac, pro should not sound worse though.
> trying to strike a balance between my cans and if I do decide to charge dac to ds dac
> Any advice? Thanks


I’ve also heard my He6se with singxer sa1 with topping D90 I think it have good enough power to drive them, but you always wonder what if I have a little bit more power


----------



## Lohb

cglin222 said:


> Where did you get the black knob on fa10
> I am planning to order fa10 amp from their site but all I see is silver knob
> Thanks


Just add a request for that colour in your order notes.


----------



## squadgazzz

Could anyone please briefly describe the major sound differences between FA-10, 12 and 12S?
And do these amps compete with Jot2 and Violectric V280?


----------



## Ichos

squadgazzz said:


> Could anyone please briefly describe the major sound differences between FA-10, 12 and 12S?
> And do these amps compete with Jot2 and Violectric V280?


The FA-10 vs FA-12 is here (don't forget to like it if you have enjoyed!)

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/review/26843/

It's been a long since I have owned the V280 but I remember it to be slightly warmer and not as hard hitting as the FA-10 , I am thinking of it closer to the FA-12.
Very good amplifier but the Flux resolve slightly better and I think that both are more spacious than the V280 and slightly faster.
V280 is very powerful but the FA-10 is a beast of power and slam.


----------



## squadgazzz (Oct 14, 2021)

Ichos said:


> The FA-10 vs FA-12 is here (don't forget to like it if you have enjoyed!)
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/review/26843/
> 
> ...


Thanks! Very helpful. I've just visited their website and found they specified FA-12 as balanced only. All of them have balanced inputs/outputs, but is FA-10 only has fully balanced scheme?


----------



## Ichos

squadgazzz said:


> Thanks! Very helpful. I've just visited their website and found they specified FA-12 as balanced only. All of them have balanced inputs/outputs, but is FA-10 only has fully balanced scheme?


I guess that you mean the FA-12.
Yes the FA-12 is the only fully balanced without converting the signal.
And can be used either single ended in - single ended out or balanced in - balanced out.


----------



## squadgazzz

Ichos said:


> I guess that you mean the FA-12.
> Yes the FA-12 is the only fully balanced without converting the signal.
> And can be used either single ended in - single ended out or balanced in - balanced out.


Yeah, FA-12 indeed.
Looks like FA-10 suits me better in terms of sound signature. Especially if it's more spacious than FA-12. Does it have more highs or it's warmer?


----------



## squadgazzz

Ichos said:


> I guess that you mean the FA-12.
> Yes the FA-12 is the only fully balanced without converting the signal.
> And can be used either single ended in - single ended out or balanced in - balanced out.


I've just contacted FLUX itself. They told me FA-10 should be more relaxed than FA-12. This completely contradicts your review


----------



## dermott

Is Flux Lab PayPal only? On their site is says, "Pay with your card via paypal payment gateway." Does that mean you can use your credit card for payment, but it is through PayPal? Sorry, not savvy about these things


----------



## squadgazzz

dermott said:


> Is Flux Lab PayPal only? On their site is says, "Pay with your card via paypal payment gateway." Does that mean you can use your credit card for payment, but it is through PayPal? Sorry, not savvy about these things


You can easily contact them via Facebook or a contact form on their website.


----------



## Ichos (Oct 14, 2021)

squadgazzz said:


> I've just contacted FLUX itself. They told me FA-10 should be more relaxed than FA-12. This completely contradicts your review


Relaxed in what way?
FA-10 slams harder and has better dynamics and bass and that is a defacto, you must be deaf not to tell the difference.
It  is more relaxed because the listener is positioned in further distance from the action compared to the FA-12 which puts you inside the action and it has more class A warmth.
Both have smooth treble response.

Sorry but I don't see any contradiction.


----------



## Fafner

dermott said:


> Is Flux Lab PayPal only? On their site is says, "Pay with your card via paypal payment gateway." Does that mean you can use your credit card for payment, but it is through PayPal? Sorry, not savvy about these things



Paypal and bank transfer.


----------



## squadgazzz

Ichos said:


> Relaxed in what way?
> FA-10 slams harder and has better dynamics and bass and that is a defacto, you must be deaf not to tell the difference.
> It  is more relaxed because the listener is positioned in further distance from the action compared to the FA-12 which puts you inside the action and it has more class A warmth.
> Both have smooth treble response.
> ...


Thanks. But I still have no idea which should I choose.
I have ARES II which is balanced. But I love punchy and dynamic bass)


----------



## Ichos

squadgazzz said:


> Thanks. But I still have no idea which should I choose.
> I have ARES II which is balanced. But I love punchy and dynamic bass)


I have both at home and I don't know which one to choose 😂

What is your headphone?


----------



## squadgazzz

Ichos said:


> I have both at home and I don't know which one to choose 😂
> 
> What is your headphone?


Right now it's LCD-2C and Argon Mk3, but I think I'll get LCD-X one day.


----------



## Ichos

squadgazzz said:


> Right now it's LCD-2C and Argon Mk3, but I think I'll get LCD-X one day.


Unfortunately never heard those.
The only thing I can vouch is that the Ares II matches very well with both amplifiers.
Sorry that I cannot help you decide!


----------



## Majors

Speaking FA-22, Ares2, HD800s I just about punched a hole in the floor toe tapping to Wayne Snow - Magnetic. Incredible!!!


----------



## jonathan c

Majors said:


> Speaking FA-22, Ares2, HD800s I just about punched a hole in the floor toe tapping to Wayne Snow - Magnetic. Incredible!!!


FA-22 + R2R DAC ====> 🎼🎶😄…where I forget FA-22 _is _solid-state. [It displaced the Violectric V280 as my favourite (long-standing) ss h/p/a.]


----------



## Majors (Oct 16, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> FA-22 + R2R DAC ====> 🎼🎶😄…where I forget FA-22 _is _solid-state. [It displaced the Violectric V280 as my


----------



## Majors

I agree 👋


----------



## Lohb

Looking to put Hugo2 behind an FA-12 soon...long shot - but anyone tried that combo ?

I loved the casework/volume pot colour and allen/hex bolts on this FA-22 review unit...great !
Wonder if Flux can also add the anodised bolts as well....


----------



## jonathan c

Another note on the Flux Labs Acoustics FA-22. I spent most of this day’s listening to classic soul / R&B: Valerie & Simpson, Aretha, Stephanie Mills, Curtis Mayfield, Major Harris, Isaac Hayes…
…Hallelujah!…a solid-state h/p/a that gets voices _right_! Air, chestiness, diction, projection: all in the natural proportion. Female ☑️ male☑️. Plus, duets / choirs have the essential blending and separation at the same time. 
…You can’t have classic soul / R&B without punchy brass, soaring mass strings, and great bass / drum syncopation. Not only does the FA-22 take care of this with aplomb, but brings the sound home with all the ambience and excitement.
…All the above happens with a variety of h/p: Audeze LCD-4, Beyer DT880, Focal Clear, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Sennheiser HD600, ZMF Auteur…Definitely my solid-state final destination h/p/a.


----------



## XVampireX

jonathan c said:


> Another note on the Flux Labs Acoustics FA-22. I spent most of this day’s listening to classic soul / R&B: Valerie & Simpson, Aretha, Stephanie Mills, Curtis Mayfield, Major Harris, Isaac Hayes…
> …Hallelujah!…a solid-state h/p/a that gets voices _right_! Air, chestiness, diction, projection: all in the natural proportion. Female ☑️ male☑️. Plus, duets / choirs have the essential blending and separation at the same time.
> …You can’t have classic soul / R&B without punchy brass, soaring mass strings, and great bass / drum syncopation. Not only does the FA-22 take care of this with aplomb, but brings the sound home with all the ambience and excitement.
> …All the above happens with a variety of h/p: Audeze LCD-4, Beyer DT880, Focal Clear, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Sennheiser HD600, ZMF Auteur…Definitely my solid-state final destination h/p/a.



Sounds great, I'm reading this thread even though I'm about to own (Well, paid in full already) the Volot and they should have a similar house sound in general, and because impressions of Volot are lacking to say the least, I have to read about their budget line which has a lot more impressions it seems.
How are you running the headphones, Single Ended or Balanced? Mostly wondering about your Focal Clears if they're balanced to the FA-22.


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 22, 2021)

XVampireX said:


> Sounds great, I'm reading this thread even though I'm about to own (Well, paid in full already) the Volot and they should have a similar house sound in general, and because impressions of Volot are lacking to say the least, I have to read about their budget line which has a lot more impressions it seems.
> How are you running the headphones, Single Ended or Balanced? Mostly wondering about your Focal Clears if they're balanced to the FA-22.


I have the Mojo Audio EVO Mystique DAC connected to the FA-22 via both SE and balanced XLR. Most headphones of mine (including Clear) are plugged in XLR, the Beyers (880 and 1770) are plugged in SE. The source selection switch is at balanced: this gives slightly more ambience / reverberation if in a recording.


----------



## XVampireX

I just saw the FA-22 doesn't have the 16W power that I thought it had but still powerful enough, Is the gain too much for the Clears in balanced or is it still silent (I mean the gain on my current Soundaware P1 is too much in balanced mode for the Utopia...) ?


----------



## jonathan c

XVampireX said:


> I just saw the FA-22 doesn't have the 16W power that I thought it had but still powerful enough, Is the gain too much for the Clears in balanced or is it still silent (I mean the gain on my current Soundaware P1 is too much in balanced mode for the Utopia...) ?


The gain is fine for Clear; because the Clear is an efficient headphone, I have the gain setting on ‘medium’. [The ‘low’ gain setting is for IEM of which I own none.]


----------



## amele

hi,
what is the synergy between flux fa10 and he6se v2
tnx


----------



## Slim1970

amele said:


> hi,
> what is the synergy between flux fa10 and he6se v2
> tnx


As an ex owner of both, the synergy is fantastic. The FA-10 seems to be made for Hifiman headphones in general. There's great synergy between the two components.


----------



## amele

Slim1970 said:


> As an ex owner of both, the synergy is fantastic. The FA-10 seems to be made for Hifiman headphones in general. There's great synergy between the two components.


tnx 
i listen mostly to electronic music or it will be a good match?


----------



## bouscadie

no feedback from the Atlas over here?


----------



## jonathan c

Slim1970 said:


> As an ex owner of both, the synergy is fantastic. The FA-10 seems to be made for Hifiman headphones in general. There's great synergy between the two components.


🤔…if the synergy between the FA-10 and the HE-6SE (v2) is “fantastic”, why are you “an ex-owner of both”?…


----------



## Slim1970

jonathan c said:


> 🤔…if the synergy between the FA-10 and the HE-6SE (v2) is “fantastic”, why are you “an ex-owner of both”?…


I moved on to a different setup. After the FA-10, I got a Luxman P-750u and a Formula S. Then I had some overlap with the HE-6se's because I had the Susvara's and HEKse's at that time. So I sold them.


----------



## NickT23

Hi how is the forum ? Long time never been to the Flux thread and at that time there was only 10 pages nice to see it go over 100 pages. I came back for the Volot and I can see many rich people here !


----------



## XVampireX

NickT23 said:


> Hi how is the forum ? Long time never been to the Flux thread and at that time there was only 10 pages nice to see it go over 100 pages. I came back for the Volot and I can see many rich people here !


There's also a separate thread for the Volot.


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> There's also a separate thread for the Volot.


Oh nice to know. SO this one mainly about FA-10 and FA 12 only ?


----------



## Ichos

NickT23 said:


> Oh nice to know. SO this one mainly about FA-10 and FA 12 only ?


Everything else except the Volot!!


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 25, 2021)

Ichos said:


> Everything else except the Volot!!


I had to squeeze in some commentary about the FA-22:  it was worth it !! 😉

PS: A ‘giant’ h/p/a, in name and in sound, needs a giant thread…


----------



## Ichos

jonathan c said:


> I had to squeeze in some commentary about the FA-22:  it was worth it !! 😉


I am very eager to listen to the FA-22 when a unit becomes available for a review.


----------



## jonathan c

Edit above #2,023


----------



## cglin222

wonder how the ifi pro ican signature compares to either fa-10 or fa-22 or the volot


----------



## squadgazzz

Did anyone have the ability to compare Audio-GD Master 19/9 with FLUX FA-10/12/22?


----------



## NickT23

squadgazzz said:


> Did anyone have the ability to compare Audio-GD Master 19/9 with FLUX FA-10/12/22?


Not enough money to A/B them.


----------



## hikaru12

Anyone have any impressions with the FA-10 and HEK? I’ve only seen a few in this thread. It’s either going to be this, the Voltos or Sparkos Aries.


----------



## You Kay

Hi guys. What’s the difference between the fa-10 and fa-10 pro?


----------



## Majors (Nov 7, 2021)

wrong thread.


----------



## Ichos

I have been revisiting the FCN-10 with the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX.
Honestly, can't be so good, I could happily keep this as my only end game DAC/amp.
It is amazing what they have done with just two humble AKM4493.
I have installed the latest version of MoOde and I am feeding it with Silent-angel Bonn N8.
Magic.
Only downside is the heat, the room gets hot and smelly!


----------



## gancanjam

hikaru12 said:


> Anyone have any impressions with the FA-10 and HEK? I’ve only seen a few in this thread. It’s either going to be this, the Voltos or Sparkos Aries.



Have used FCN-10 ( DAC + Amp) with HEK V1, certainly a  good pairing. Musical, inoffensive yet non rolled off treble, better transient response , good mid bass, Mid treble HE1K V1 peak is contained, dynamic, impactful yet easy listening


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> I have been revisiting the FCN-10 with the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX.
> Honestly, can't be so good, I could happily keep this as my only end game DAC/amp.
> It is amazing what they have done with just two humble AKM4493.
> I have installed the latest version of MoOde and I am feeding it with Silent-angel Bonn N8.
> ...


How does the in built dac compare with the ares 2?


----------



## Ichos

RenEh said:


> How does the in built dac compare with the ares 2?


Well the Ares II is just a little more organic and full bodied with less digital glare (not that the FCN-10 has too much of it).
The FCN-10 is a touch more lean but resolves better detail and honesty I am not missing the Ares II.
Now if the question would what should I prefer between the FA-10 + Ares II or the FCN-10 my answer wouldn't be based on the DAC sound but rather on more practical matters.
One thing for sure is that I wouldn't pick the FCN-10 to use it for the line out.
Not because it doesn't sound good (on the contrary) but for the reason that it gets very hot and I can't disable the amp stage.
Too much waste of power to use it as plain dac/streamer.


----------



## pureofheart

I requested some info about all their amps since it is confusing to me and this is their reply. Hope it helps someone in the decision making...


_Thank you so much for your request 
Please find some basic points below 

FA-10 & FA-10PRO

FA-10 and FA-10PRO are based on similar topology but with some unique differences. Thanks to that, FA-10 and FA-10PRO have the same output power but different sound character.

PRO version is more crisp and detailed, the bass response has more focus but is less in-depth. The classical version is more linear, warm and musical; lows are deeper, mids are more emotional. Those both models were designed to share unlimited possibilities for hard to drive headphones market.

FA-12 & FA-10

The amplifiers have a different circuit design and their own unique character; FA-12 utilizes a fully-balanced circuit design with MOSFET output, making the sound more coloured and fun, with a bit deeper bass response, more forwarded mids and gently sparkled highs.

FA-10 is single-ended. It is based on bipolar output design, which performs much more output power; the sound character is more linear, with a darker background and a more wide sound stage. Bass is not as deep as FA-12, but it is stronger on the technical side, with more focus, speed and control. Highs and mids are softer than on FA-12.
FA-22 is pretty similar to FA10PRO signature, but have a bit more emotional mids presentation, similar lows depth and control 

If you not planning to order some hard to drive headphones like HE06SE, Abyss etc. I guess FA-12 will be a great combination at balanced mode (need balanced connection for your AMP)

Let m know if you need any other support

Regards, Vitaliy_


----------



## RenEh (Nov 9, 2021)

Has anyone tried capacitor upgrades on their fa-12? I know someone did it to their fa-11.

I’m just waiting for my warranty to be up before I do anything.


----------



## NickT23

pureofheart said:


> I requested some info about all their amps since it is confusing to me and this is their reply. Hope it helps someone in the decision making...
> 
> 
> _Thank you so much for your request
> ...


_*FA-22* is pretty similar to FA10PRO signature. _Do you mean* FA-12* ? Was it a mistake ?


----------



## pureofheart

NickT23 said:


> _*FA-22* is pretty similar to FA10PRO signature. _Do you mean* FA-12* ? Was it a mistake ?


They also have the FA-22. The comments I posted are from FLUX, not from me.

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa-22-balance-class-a-head-amplifier/

Btw, I still have no clue which one to order. Let me know if you decide to order one.


----------



## RenEh

pureofheart said:


> They also have the FA-22. The comments I posted are from FLUX, not from me.
> 
> https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa-22-balance-class-a-head-amplifier/
> 
> Btw, I still have no clue which one to order. Let me know if you decide to order one.


What gear are you pairing it with?


----------



## Ichos

Ha , this is the only true trouble with Flux.
Everything sounds good and everything has an interesting character so choosing is a little bit difficult.
I wish I could stack all of them!
Now that I have sold my Venus II and while waiting for something else to arrive, I am using the FCN-10 as a pure DAC in the reference speaker system and it sounds pretty darn good!


----------



## Majors

Ichos said:


> Ha , this is the only true trouble with Flux.
> Everything sounds good and everything has an interesting character so choosing is a little bit difficult.
> I wish I could stack all of them!
> Now that I have sold my Venus II and while waiting for something else to arrive, I am using the FCN-10 as a pure DAC in the reference speaker system and it sounds pretty darn good!


May I ask what are you replacing the Venus ll with?


----------



## Ichos

Majors said:


> May I ask what are you replacing the Venus ll with?


Termi II


----------



## Majors

Ichos said:


> Termi II


Yesss!


----------



## squadgazzz

Ichos said:


> Ha , this is the only true trouble with Flux.
> Everything sounds good and everything has an interesting character so choosing is a little bit difficult.
> I wish I could stack all of them!
> Now that I have sold my Venus II and while waiting for something else to arrive, I am using the FCN-10 as a pure DAC in the reference speaker system and it sounds pretty darn good!


Is it comparable to Ares II? I mean FCN-10's DAC.


----------



## Majors

squadgazzz said:


> Is it comparable to Ares II? I mean FCN-10's DAC.


Answer in post 2035


----------



## Ichos

On a side note, the FCN-10 is more clean and silent from the USB input.


----------



## RenEh

Majors said:


> Yesss!


Wait, are you saying these amps are detailed enough that they can utilize a terminator 2 well enough to justify the cost?


----------



## lightoflight

Ichos said:


> Termi II


Hasta La Vista, Baby!


----------



## Majors

RenEh said:


> Wait, are you saying these amps are detailed enough that they can utilize a terminator 2 well enough to justify the cost?


In my humble opinion yes.


----------



## RenEh

Majors said:


> In my humble opinion yes.


As an Fa-12 owner, that has never heard the big boy amps like the bha-1, Head AMP GSX Mini, Burson Soloist, Violectric V280, Phonitor X or other items in that price class I’m really curious how the FA-12 stacks up. Is this AMP at least in the same ballpark as those or a solid tier or two lower?


----------



## Ichos

OK , first of all the Termi is going to be used with a reference two channel system and various high end headphone amplifiers.
But to answer your other question, yes the Flux 10/12/22 can certainly take advantage of the Termi.
Certainly it can do with better amps but the Flux are not lagging behind and they scale greatly.
The 12 with the Venus II was easily one of the best pairings I have experienced.
I would choose the Flux over my x V280 any time without regretting anything.
The V550 is another beast but at this price point there is the Volot which I have never heard to know what is capable of.


----------



## RenEh

Ichos said:


> OK , first of all the Termi is going to be used with a reference two channel system and various high end headphone amplifiers.
> But to answer your other question, yes the Flux 10/12/22 can certainly take advantage of the Termi.
> Certainly it can do with better amps but the Flux are not lagging behind and they scale greatly.
> The 12 with the Venus II was easily one of the best pairings I have experienced.
> ...


Thanks for the input!


----------



## pureofheart

RenEh said:


> What gear are you pairing it with?


I have a Marantz SACD Ruby connected to a Monoprice THX 887. Headphones are HD800 SE. 
I might give the amp to my son and that is why I am looking for a new amp. Possibly the FLUX FA-22 but not sure yet. Also, possibly getting the HEDDphone.


----------



## RenEh

pureofheart said:


> I have a Marantz SACD Ruby connected to a Monoprice THX 887. Headphones are HD800 SE.
> I might give the amp to my son and that is why I am looking for a new amp. Possibly the FLUX FA-22 but not sure yet. Also, possibly getting the HEDDphone.


IMO the Flux Amps are such step up from THX you can get any amp and it’ll be a huge step up. 

I think you should decide if you want to go balanced or not first as that only leaves the FA-12, and balanced cables can get costly.

With the HD800 I would choose the warmer amp because I can’t stand it’s treble personally.


----------



## Majors

FA-22 with Ares II and 800s is a match made in heaven. It literally fixed all the things I disliked about the hd800s. Improved Center Imaging as well as more defined Bass.


----------



## Ichos

RenEh said:


> IMO the Flux Amps are such step up from THX you can get any amp and it’ll be a huge step up.
> 
> I think you should decide if you want to go balanced or not first as that only leaves the FA-12, and balanced cables can get costly.
> 
> With the HD800 I would choose the warmer amp because I can’t stand it’s treble personally.


I concur, don't count me as a THX hater because I like very much certain implementations but all the Flux are far better when it comes to musicality.


----------



## dermott

Regarding planars, I have heard it said that its not watts so much, but current that is important in driving them. Aside from the Volot, do the rest of the Flux offerings (FA-10/12/22) offer the same "current" regardless of the watts they produce? The FA-12 & 22 have significantly less watts compared to the FA-10, but do watts and current have a direct relationship? I don't know enough about this stuff. I am loving my recently acquired Arya V2, but know that it is being held back by my Jot 1 amp. I am leaning toward the FA-12 based on the way people describe the sound. It is especially tough in that the FA-10, 12 and 22 are all the same price. Great problem to have I guess, but just want to make sure I choose the right sound signature. I listen to my headphones to relax more often than not, so I want that more gentle/inviting sound. Think lower resting heart rate/blood pressure 😊.


----------



## Ichos

For more technical specifications you better ask Vitaliy.
From a user experience perspective the FA-12 runs my Sundara, Deva pro and Ananda with ease and great sound.


----------



## jonathan c

dermott said:


> Regarding planars, I have heard it said that its not watts so much, but current that is important in driving them. Aside from the Volot, do the rest of the Flux offerings (FA-10/12/22) offer the same "current" regardless of the watts they produce? The FA-12 & 22 have significantly less watts compared to the FA-10, but do watts and current have a direct relationship? I don't know enough about this stuff. I am loving my recently acquired Arya V2, but know that it is being held back by my Jot 1 amp. I am leaning toward the FA-12 based on the way people describe the sound. It is especially tough in that the FA-10, 12 and 22 are all the same price. Great problem to have I guess, but just want to make sure I choose the right sound signature. I listen to my headphones to relax more often than not, so I want that more gentle/inviting sound. Think lower resting heart rate/blood pressure 😊.


I have no problems, all enjoyment, when the Flux Lab FA-22 is driving: Audeze LCD-4, Audeze LCD-X.


----------



## ecc35




----------



## ecc35

ecc35 said:


>


FA-12 arrived.


----------



## XVampireX

Congrats, but you don't need to double post.
And let us know what you think of it.


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> Congrats, but you don't need to double post.
> And let us know what you think of it.


Maybe he made a mistake.


----------



## ecc35

XVampireX said:


> Congrats, but you don't need to double post.
> And let us know what you think of it.


Sorry, first time attaching photo, did not know how it works..


----------



## NickT23

ecc35 said:


> Sorry, first time attaching photo, did not know how it works..


We are brothers in nation. Why never go for the FA-10 ?


----------



## ecc35

NickT23 said:


> We are brothers in nation. Why never go for the FA-10 ?


My headphones are not difficult to drive.


----------



## Lovebox

Any thoughts about the FA-12 vs the Singxer SA-1?


----------



## Majors

Here's a mechanical tuning tip. Back out the screws on the XLR and loosen the RCA nuts on the back of unit then tighten them up till lightly touching. You can always tighten them up if you don't like it. There's videos on YouTube explaining how it works. If you try it please let me know how this works. For me it was mind-blowing.


----------



## RenEh

Majors said:


> Here's a mechanical tuning tip. Back out the screws on the XLR and loosen the RCA nuts on the back of unit then tighten them up till lightly touching. You can always tighten them up if you don't like it. There's videos on YouTube explaining how it works. If you try it please let me know how this works. For me it was mind-blowing.


I did this for my ares 2… and it improved the bass. Yup I’m one of those crazy audiophiles now.


----------



## Majors

Lol, yep I noticed the soundstage expanded and at the same time was more precise delineated. And then the bass👋


----------



## squadgazzz (Nov 18, 2021)

Majors said:


> Here's a mechanical tuning tip. Back out the screws on the XLR and loosen the RCA nuts on the back of unit then tighten them up till lightly touching. You can always tighten them up if you don't like it. There's videos on YouTube explaining how it works. If you try it please let me know how this works. For me it was mind-blowing.


Could you pls share a video link?
Nevermind, I have found some =)


----------



## apmusson

Comment deleted - didn't read the above post


----------



## realmassy

Has anyone got a picture of the FA-10/12/22 in silver and space grey? Also, is the volume knob available only in black? Thanks


----------



## Majors (Nov 18, 2021)

Knobs, faceplate and screws can be changed to any color offered. while ordering just put it in the notes. Also you can request a remote, a real value.


----------



## realmassy

I ended this torture 😂and ordered a FA-12 in silver


----------



## jonathan c

realmassy said:


> Has anyone got a picture of the FA-10/12/22 in silver and space grey? Also, is the volume knob available only in black? Thanks


While I love the FA-22 all around, I thought that the volume knob felt ‘chintzy’. This is what I ordered via EBay to remedy that…


----------



## XLR2XLR

The only thing I didn't like about the FA-12 was the factory volume knob. I've tried 3 different ones and ended up to keep the one shown in the photo. It looks good, matches the toggle switches, and the diamond pattern provides a good grip. Not bad for $12.

Here's the Amazon link.


----------



## XLR2XLR

Here's another one I've tried. The silver finish of this knob didn't match the finish of the faceplate. I couldn't live with it.


----------



## squadgazzz (Nov 19, 2021)

XLR2XLR said:


> The only thing I didn't like about the FA-12 was the factory volume knob. I've tried 3 different ones and ended up to keep the one shown in the photo. It looks good, matches the toggle switches, and the diamond pattern provides a good grip. Not bad for $12.
> 
> Here's the Amazon link.


Oh, that's a beautiful one. I wish they had a black one.
Haha, found one https://aliexpress.com/item/32811525855.html


----------



## realmassy

Thanks for the pictures!!! Funny how I asked about them and then went away and place the order before looking at them 😂 My heart was already set on silver anyway!
And thanks for the link to the knob…looks good


----------



## realmassy

On a side note, did you guys receive an email to confirm the order has been placed?


----------



## squadgazzz

realmassy said:


> On a side note, did you guys receive an email to confirm the order has been placed?


Yes. If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact them directly via Facebook.


----------



## realmassy

Yep, I just did that, and they replied immediately 👍


----------



## Majors

For those Denafrips users there`s a new firmware out today 3.11.0. Here`s the link
https://www.denafrips.com/firmware-update-usb


----------



## Honeypot

Omg how i am enjoying the flux fa-12 with the lcdx.... Using D90 soon will buy ares II.
Just to try a different type of DAC.
But I'm loving it!!!


----------



## lightoflight

Honeypot said:


> Omg how i am enjoying the flux fa-12 with the lcdx.... Using D90 soon will buy ares II.
> Just to try a different type of DAC.
> But I'm loving it!!!


My thoughts. I had an Ares II and just sold it because I have a Pontus II, FA-12 and LCD-X now. I would save up for a Pontus II and save yourself some money and naivety in the long run.


----------



## jonathan c

Honeypot said:


> Omg how i am enjoying the flux fa-12 with the lcdx.... Using D90 soon will buy ares II.
> Just to try a different type of DAC.
> But I'm loving it!!!


The Flux Lab h/p/a work _extremely well in presenting music_ when fed by an R2R DAC versus sigma-delta etc DAC. I am an ecstatic owner of the FA-22 and the Mojo Audio EVO Mystique Pro. GO FOR the Denafrips Ares II for your FA-12! It is a DAC of ‘a different type’ and on a higher level. The D90 may be fine in the laboratory, the Ares II will be far better in the home.


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> The Flux Lab h/p/a work _extremely well in presenting music_ when fed by an R2R DAC versus sigma-delta etc DAC. I am an ecstatic owner of the FA-22 and the Mojo Audio EVO Mystique Pro. GO FOR the Denafrips Ares II for your FA-12! It is a DAC of ‘a different type’ and on a higher level. The D90 may be fine in the laboratory, the Ares II will be far better in the home.


Would you say the D90 sounded more sterile, dry and super linear (meaning flat frequency response) even when paired with a warmer FA-22 or FA-12 ?


----------



## jonathan c

NickT23 said:


> Would you say the D90 sounded more sterile, dry and super linear (meaning flat frequency response) even when paired with a warmer FA-22 or FA-12 ?


Yes


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> Yes


Well yea thats what I like so we can hear the amp, headphone and the recording that is intended. Good to have both dac topology !


----------



## XLR2XLR

NickT23 said:


> Well yea thats what I like so we can hear the amp, headphone and the recording that is intended. Good to have both dac topology !


A year and half ago, I replaced the D90 with the Yggy A2. It didn't take many A/B listening sessions to hear that the D90 was lacking in terms of depth, imaging, and natural timbre. It felt like all the details in the music were present but they were placed on a 2D surface instead of 3D space.


----------



## NickT23

XLR2XLR said:


> A year and half ago, I replaced the D90 with the Yggy A2. It didn't take many A/B listening sessions to hear that the D90 was lacking in terms of depth, imaging, and natural timbre. It felt like all the details in the music were present but they were placed on a 2D surface instead of 3D space.


That might be true but the D90 should also have accurate imaging and precision, just not in a natural in 3D space perhaps.


----------



## DeafSound

Hi All,

I figured I ask here first before ordering to see if anyone is looking to sell their Flux FA-10 as I am in the hunt for one.  Definitely more interested in a modded one 

Thanks!


----------



## whitefang

DeafSound said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I figured I ask here first before ordering to see if anyone is looking to sell their Flux FA-10 as I am in the hunt for one.  Definitely more interested in a modded one
> 
> Thanks!


Check PM


----------



## eugene2

whitefang said:


> Check PM


Running my Fa22 with a M2Tech Young III and Van Der Graaf power supply.  A tremendous combination and I’ve owned a lot of Dacs.  The FA 22 has plenty of pop for my phones…


----------



## jonathan c

eugene2 said:


> Running my Fa22 with a M2Tech Young III and Van Der Graaf power supply.  A tremendous combination and I’ve owned a lot of Dacs.  The FA 22 has plenty of pop for my phones…


Which headphones?….FA-22 _chez moi_ in action (synergy rules!):


----------



## SirIppo

Anyone move from a Jot 2 to one of these amps? What would be your impressions of the differences?


----------



## DeafSound

eugene2 said:


> Running my Fa22 with a M2Tech Young III and Van Der Graaf power supply.  A tremendous combination and I’ve owned a lot of Dacs.  The FA 22 has plenty of pop for my phones…


How are you liking this combo specifically with your Hifiman headphones?  Curious if the M2Tech Young DAC will pair well with the Susvara.

Thanks!


----------



## eugene2

the Young is very resolving and musical especially with the Van Der Graaf.  We pitted it against the 20k Playback  Dac and it fared very well with some large estat speakers.  The mkIV has a new chipset and headphone amp.  I haven’t thought about upgrading Though.  I think it would work well with the Susvara as it was brilliant with the Jade II until the amp started having problem.


----------



## nicastrino

Ichos said:


> I have been revisiting the FCN-10 with the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX.
> Honestly, can't be so good, I could happily keep this as my only end game DAC/amp.
> It is amazing what they have done with just two humble AKM4493.
> I have installed the latest version of MoOde and I am feeding it with Silent-angel Bonn N8.
> ...


I totally feel the same about the FCN-10, even though I downsized my headphone collection to just the only one I liked the most, the LCD-4z. The FCN-10 is like an Apple iMac system, everything in one elegant well thought out package. I could have went with the FA-12 since the LCD-4z doesn't need much juice but the idea of cables, separate DAC's and space just put me off and I went with the FCN-10 instead.

Every few days when I'm in the mood to listen to music I turn this thing on and I'm simply amazed at the level of sound coming out of this box. I've toyed with many multi thousand AMP's and DAC's and this seems to put out top tier quality sound with just two AKM4493's. I really wish I didn't sell so many of my HP's before trying with this amp however I have no regrets the LCD-4z was the only pair I liked. The only thing is after a couple hours this amp really heats up but good thing its winter here now.


----------



## Slim1970

nicastrino said:


> I totally feel the same about the FCN-10, even though I downsized my headphone collection to just the only one I liked the most, the LCD-4z. The FCN-10 is like an Apple iMac system, everything in one elegant well thought out package. I could have went with the FA-12 since the LCD-4z doesn't need much juice but the idea of cables, separate DAC's and space just put me off and I went with the FCN-10 instead.
> 
> Every few days when I'm in the mood to listen to music I turn this thing on and I'm simply amazed at the level of sound coming out of this box. I've toyed with many multi thousand AMP's and DAC's and this seems to put out top tier quality sound with just two AKM4493's. I really wish I didn't sell so many of my HP's before trying with this amp however I have no regrets the LCD-4z was the only pair I liked. The only thing is after a couple hours this amp really heats up but good thing its winter here now.


The LCD-4z’s are an excellent choice. They are an excellent all around headphone.


----------



## Ichos

My real issue with the FCN-10 is the smell rather than the heat.
Heat is OK but after an hour, I can't stand the smell...


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> My real issue with the FCN-10 is the smell rather than the heat.
> Heat is OK but after an hour, I can't stand the smell...


Do you think that the odour will disappear after ‘x’ hundred hours use (pink noise, CD replay…)?


----------



## Ichos (Dec 8, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Do you think that the odour will disappear after ‘x’ hundred hours use (pink noise, CD replay…)?


No I don't think so, mine unit is with hundred hours of use but still smells.
It gets so hot that it is impossible to stop radiating odour from the internal semi conductors.

BTW , I think that it would be great if Vitaliy could offer the FA-12/22 with the option to order with an internal DAC/streamer.


----------



## Majors

Ichos said:


> No I don't think so, mine unit is with hundred hours of use but still smells.
> It gets so hot that it is impossible to stop radiating odour from the internal semi conductors.
> 
> BTW , I think that it would be great if Vitaliy could offer the FA-12/22 with the option to order with an internal DAC/streamer.


It might just be possible if you ask.


----------



## Ichos

Majors said:


> It might just be possible if you ask.


Yes but it would be great to have the option included in the website so the people might know.


----------



## XVampireX

I don't think it's gonna be an option to order with a DAC, there's a reason there's a separate device that is integrated with a DAC/Streamer.


----------



## dermott

Ichos said:


> No I don't think so, mine unit is with hundred hours of use but still smells.
> It gets so hot that it is impossible to stop radiating odour from the internal semi conductors.
> 
> Is the smelly thing related to the "10" models or just the FCN-10? I have heard about how hot the FA-10 gets, but not mention of a smell on those so much. Do the lesser watt 12/22 models get hot as well? It seems like folks don't mention the heat so much with those models, but for the FA-10 and FCN-10 sounds like it is more extreme.


----------



## Ichos

First of all I would like to inform everyone reading this thread that after a communication with Vitaliy, he specifically mentioned that although it is perfectly normal for the FCN-10, FA-10 to get quite hot to the touch , it is not normal to smell like mine.
The issue must be related to some semiconductor of my specific unit which for some reason is emitting odour.
Regular production units don't smell.

Now , regarding the FA-12 / 22 they barely get warm, nothing to talk about.


----------



## NickT23

Ichos said:


> First of all I would like to inform everyone reading this thread that after a communication with Vitaliy, he specifically mentioned that although it is perfectly normal for the FCN-10, FA-10 to get quite hot to the touch , it is not normal to smell like mine.
> The issue must be related to some semiconductor of my specific unit which for some reason is emitting odour.
> Regular production units don't smell.
> 
> Now , regarding the FA-12 / 22 they barely get warm, nothing to talk about.


Does it smell good ? Is it like a hot oven ? That amp can even baked egg toast


----------



## Ichos

NickT23 said:


> Does it smell good ? Is it like a hot oven ? That amp can even baked egg toast


It can bake good music for your ears, that's for sure!


----------



## Majors

Ichos said:


> First of all I would like to inform everyone reading this thread that after a communication with Vitaliy, he specifically mentioned that although it is perfectly normal for the FCN-10, FA-10 to get quite hot to the touch , it is not normal to smell like mine.
> The issue must be related to some semiconductor of my specific unit which for some reason is emitting odour.
> Regular production units don't smell.
> 
> Now , regarding the FA-12 / 22 they barely get warm, nothing to talk about.


Will you be getting a replacement?  I had the same thing with a soncoz dac. Stunk up the room instantly. I couldn't stand it and send it back.


----------



## NickT23

Ichos said:


> It can bake good music for your ears, that's for sure!


But seriously though, how does it smell like ? Is it that burning smell you get from hot oven ? I never had this issue before. I dont own Class A amp anyway.


----------



## Ichos

Come on guys I don't want to continue the discussion any further since it is a single unit related issue.
This is a review sample loaned to me that before that was in another reviewers hands so anything could have happened.
*Production units don't smell *but yes they get hot like all other high power output class A amplifiers.


----------



## XVampireX

Ichos said:


> Come on guys I don't want to continue the discussion any further since it is a single unit related issue.
> This is a review sample loaned to me that before that was in another reviewers hands so anything could have happened.
> *Production units don't smell *but yes they get hot like all other high power output class A amplifiers.



This guy is a troll (NickT23) he's trolling on the Volot thread as well for the same reasons.


----------



## Majors

Im sorry to perpetuate this I only asked because I felt bad for you.


----------



## NickT23

XVampireX said:


> This guy is a troll (NickT23) he's trolling on the Volot thread as well for the same reasons.


hi, hello I am not a troll. I am just responding comments and have some questions regarding it. Some may be a comment and just to light off the mood. At least its related to the Volot.


----------



## Ichos

*For a another time, my unit seems to be in need for some adjustments.
I am going to perform measurements under Vitaliy instructions.

He explained one more time that the normal FA-10 / FCN-10 should not smell and get over heated.*


----------



## jonathan c

On a whim, I connected the Schiit Audio Valhalla II (Foton 6N6P / RFT ECC81) as a preamplifier to the Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22 via custom silver interconnects by Arctic Cables. The respective strengths of vacuum tube & solid state with no perceivable weaknesses so far. Another _tasty_ sonic ‘flavour’…


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> On a whim, I connected the Schiit Audio Valhalla II (Foton 6N6P / RFT ECC81) as a preamplifier to the Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22 via custom silver interconnects by Arctic Cables. The respective strengths of vacuum tube & solid state with no perceivable weaknesses so far. Another _tasty_ sonic ‘flavour’…


HI what a setup ! Got dedicated CD even...


----------



## Astral Abyss

You might be smelling solder flux (Not to be confused with Flux), and possibly oxidized metal removed by the flux, burning off as the amp heats up.  I get this smell on several of my hot running amps, for instance, my Wells Audio Milo and Audio-gd NFB-1AMP will have a faint flux smell once they've been on for a while.  It's more likely to occur on equipment where some of the soldering is done by hand on parts that get very hot.


----------



## dermott

Astral Abyss said:


> You might be smelling solder flux (Not to be confused with Flux), and possibly oxidized metal removed by the flux, burning off as the amp heats up.  I get this smell on several of my hot running amps, for instance, my Wells Audio Milo and Audio-gd NFB-1AMP will have a faint flux smell once they've been on for a while.  It's more likely to occur on equipment where some of the soldering is done by hand on parts that get very hot.


How does your Milo stack up compared to the FA-10?


----------



## nicastrino (Dec 10, 2021)

Ichos said:


> My real issue with the FCN-10 is the smell rather than the heat.
> Heat is OK but after an hour, I can't stand the smell...


I usually leave mine running for 6+ hours (listening on and off, sometimes even forgetting to turn it off overnight) and I never detect any smell coming out if it.

Maybe have it run for a few hours and then unplug the power and open the cover and have a look try to pinpoint where the smell is coming from, maybe some solder flux is somewhere where it shouldn't be? I don't know but I never had an issue with a smell coming from it or overheating or anything like that, however it does get hot on the vented side where the heatsinks are which is normal for Class-A... even my Denon AVR receiver gets like 2 to 3 times as hot


----------



## Ichos

nicastrino said:


> I usually leave mine running for 6+ hours (listening on and off, sometimes even forgetting to turn it off overnight) and I never detect any smell coming out if it.


I think that it must be clear by now and my previous replies that there is something wrong with the review sample.


----------



## nicastrino

Ichos said:


> I think that it must be clear by now and my previous replies that there is something wrong with the review sample.


Yeah it seems so, something with your unit as mine makes no smell what so ever even with my nose close to the vent, not a hint of any flux (solder smell) or any burning rubber etc.


----------



## Ichos

I am going to measure it with Vitaliy instructions.


----------



## Ichos (Dec 12, 2021)

Coming back to the topic about my FCN-10 smelling and overheating.

We found out that the device is faulty, now we are working on solving this issue.

*So, normal production FCN-10 and FA-10 don't get overheated and certainly don't smell.*


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> Coming back to the topic about my FCN-10 smelling and overheating.
> 
> We found out that the device is faulty, now we are working on solving this issue.
> 
> *So, normal production FCN-10 and FA-10 don't get overheated and certainly don't smell.*


Is it possible that another, fresh review is needed? If only to determine whether FCN-10 sonics were affected by the faulty/damaged devices. 🤷🏻


----------



## Ichos

jonathan c said:


> Is it possible that another, fresh review is needed? If only to determine whether FCN-10 sonics were affected by the faulty/damaged devices. 🤷🏻


No, the affected components are not in the signal path but only for protection.

Anyway how higher could I rate the FCN-10 from my already highest review?


----------



## Ichos

Ah , and I have forgotten, the FCN-10 was in perfect condition at the time of the review the issue is relatively recent.


----------



## amele

hi, I am wondering which amp you recommend for Arya Stealth FA-10 or FA-22
tnx


----------



## pureofheart

amele said:


> hi, I am wondering which amp you recommend for Arya Stealth FA-10 or FA-22
> tnx


I would like to know the same thing even though, I think I am leaning towards the FA-22.


----------



## amele

I contacted Flux lab and they told me that for my taste of music it is best to take FA-12 Balanced Class-A Head-Amplifier


----------



## Terriero (Dec 17, 2021)

Sorry for being repetitive and off-topic, but I want to thank again to @teknorob23, who put here a long time ago a link to a* Matt Berninger album*, *Serpentine Prison*, which I instantly loved.

I've just listened to my preferred song of that album "One more second" with my HD 800 with tears in my eyes and somewhat dancing... Sounds spectacular.

I know this is off-topic but the most important thing for me in this hobby is enjoy my music (and find new music)  and I think people should recommend their preferred albums more often


----------



## Majors (Dec 17, 2021)

Terriero said:


> Sorry for being repetitive and off-topic, but I want to thank again to @teknorob23, who put here a long time ago a link to a* Matt Berninger album*, *Serpentine Prison*, which I instantly loved.
> 
> I've just listened to my preferred song of that album "One more second" with my HD 800 with tears in my eyes and somewhat dancing... Sounds spectacular.
> 
> I know this is off-topic but the most important thing for me in this hobby is enjoy my music (and find new music)  and I think people should recommend their preferred albums more often


Check out Bugge Wesseltoft in his group Rymden this album Space Saylors is Amazing.


----------



## jonathan c

Terriero said:


> I know this is off-topic: but the most important thing for me in this hobby is to enjoy my music (and to find new music) and I think people should recommend their preferred albums more often.


Agreed…maybe a new thread theme…_plus_ preferred headphones for that preferred album. Why? Let’s face it: not all albums are mixed & mastered in the same way; and those mixing & mastering have differing capabilities. Album ABC may just _sound better _to you with headphone XYZ...


----------



## Terriero

jonathan c said:


> Agreed…maybe a new thread theme…_plus_ preferred headphones for that preferred album. Why? Let’s face it: not all albums are mixed & mastered in the same way; and those mixing & mastering have differing capabilities. Album ABC may just _sound better _to you with headphone XYZ...


Yes, that's exactly what a feel last weekend with my AH-D9200 (and why I wanted to get rid of them, but I finally regretted):

One week ago, I wanted to listen to some albums: "Beatles - Let it be (1970), Bee Gees - Still Waters (1997), Blind Guardian - Imaginations from the other side (1995), Derek and the Dominos - Layla and other assorted love songs (1970) and Jazz at the Pawnhop volume 2 - Arne Domnérus" and the 9200s failed with all of them (I found the voices to be "shouty" or a lot of power for the music which I didn't enjoy, or simply the music was wrong for me). Then I swapped to the 1990 Pros and have a pleasant experience with most of those albums.


----------



## Terriero (Dec 18, 2021)

Majors said:


> Check out Bugge Wesseltoft in his group Rymden this album Space Saylors is Amazing.


Thank you very much. Right now, listening to it via Youtube. I will download later because I'm loving it.

Remembered to me to Hiromi Uehara performances in her Trio Project which I love a lot.


----------



## Slim1970

Terriero said:


> Yes, that's exactly what a feel last weekend with my AH-D9200 (and why I wanted to get rid of them, but I finally regretted):
> 
> One week ago, I wanted to listen to some albums: "Beatles - Let it be (1970), Bee Gees - Still Waters (1997), Blind Guardian - Imaginations from the other side (1995), Derek and the Dominos - Layla and other assorted love songs (1970) and Jazz at the Pawnhop volume 2 - Arne Domnérus" and the 9200s failed with all of them (I found the voices to be "shouty" or a lot of power for the music which I didn't enjoy, or simply the music was wrong for me). Then I swapped to the 1990 Pros and have a pleasant experience with most of those albums.


The DT-1990 Pro’s are awesome headphones. I have a set an they hold their own against many of my TOTL headphones. I’m not surprised that you find them to be good with 70’s music.


----------



## Terriero

Now back to topic to don't angry the mods...


----------



## Newsee

Terriero said:


> Sorry for being repetitive and off-topic, but I want to thank again to @teknorob23, who put here a long time ago a link to a* Matt Berninger album*, *Serpentine Prison*, which I instantly loved.
> 
> I've just listened to my preferred song of that album "One more second" with my HD 800 with tears in my eyes and somewhat dancing... Sounds spectacular.
> 
> I know this is off-topic but the most important thing for me in this hobby is enjoy my music (and find new music)  and I think people should recommend their preferred albums more often


Thanks for reminding that album. I also liked it. While we are at the Flux thread - what is you current chain? You signature doesn't reveal it. The last info I remember is that you were saving up for some dac/amp from a more computer periphery like box. 

If you want to discover music I can recommend Qobuz "My weekly queue". I am also happy to read about music recommendations fron Head-fi members, especially tracks rather than albums. Since this weekly queue exist I am overhelmed with new music that I like, I hardly have time to repeat my good old preferences.


----------



## Majors

Newsee said:


> Thanks for reminding that album. I also liked it. While we are at the Flux thread - what is you current chain? You signature doesn't reveal it. The last info I remember is that you were saving up for some dac/amp from a more computer periphery like box.
> 
> If you want to discover music I can recommend Qobuz "My weekly queue". I am also happy to read about music recommendations fron Head-fi members, especially tracks rather than albums. Since this weekly queue exist I am overhelmed with new music that I like, I hardly have time to repeat my good old preferences.


Ok try Alan Holdsworth Pud Wud. Different kind of jam.


----------



## Terriero

Newsee said:


> Thanks for reminding that album. I also liked it. While we are at the Flux thread - what is you current chain? You signature doesn't reveal it. The last info I remember is that you were saving up for some dac/amp from a more computer periphery like box.
> 
> If you want to discover music I can recommend Qobuz "My weekly queue". I am also happy to read about music recommendations fron Head-fi members, especially tracks rather than albums. Since this weekly queue exist I am overhelmed with new music that I like, I hardly have time to repeat my good old preferences.


Thank you very much. I tried to save this year for an AMP and DAC or an AIO, but had a lot of spendings. I'm still valorating some options:

AMP: Flux lab Volot, Ferrum OOR ...
DAC: R2R units (Denafrips or Musician), Gustard X26 Pro...
AIO: Vio V590.

Maybe next year -if I will not go first for the Sony Z1R-. I hope that my almost 10 years old Asus Xonar Essence One last a little more... 

Thanks for your recommendation. I have a lot of pending albums in my FLAC library... But I will see if I pay a stream service in the future.


----------



## realmassy

My FA-12 has shipped 🎉 Hopefully 7-10 days and should be with me


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> My FA-12 has shipped 🎉 Hopefully 7-10 days and should be with me


Love your new avatar!
I have a full scale copy in my kitchen!!!


----------



## realmassy

Nice one isn’t it? I remember seeing that picture (or maybe it was a different one from Kandinsky…) on an album cover and falling in love with it. I’ve got a copy in my office room and every time I look at it I see something different


----------



## Ichos

I love Kandinsky.


----------



## realmassy

My FA-12 just got delivered 😍 
Much nicer than I expected to be honest…listening to this right now 





with the Denafrips Venus II and the Empyrean…pretty good so far


----------



## Majors (Dec 31, 2021)

Well I just picked up a pair of HE6se V2 from Adorama for 549.00. I wasn`t expecting the FA-22 to drive them well. Oh boy was I wrong after a night of burn-in I can say technically I cant find a flaw. I changed the cable to Jenna Labs HP-422 and removed the fabric from behind the grills while I wait for the ebay more open honeycomb style. These are definitely a keeper. The sound of these has been well described and I don't have much to add there but they really opened up after burn-in. Volume at around 2 o'clock is PLENTY with lower volume still giving dynamics and slam. I understand the Volot or FA-10 is the recommended FLA amp's but with over 5 watts into 50 ohms and the mosfet magic of the FA-22, the synergy is excellent. 👍


----------



## Majors

Also if you have a Denafrips Dac you really need to get the latest firmware 3.12.0 from here https://www.denafrips.com/firmware-update-usb. It is a huge improvement even on coax.


----------



## realmassy

Majors said:


> Also if you have a Denafrips Dac you really need to get the latest firmware 3.12.0 from here https://www.denafrips.com/firmware-update-usb. It is a huge improvement even on coax.


We’re off topic, but I updated the firmware and found zero difference using non usb output


----------



## Majors

realmassy said:


> We’re off topic, but I updated the firmware and found zero difference using non usb output


If you are on 3.6.0 you may not have noticed a difference they were very similar. The prior Kernel  was bass light. At least your up to date.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

@sahmen @Slim1970 @ksorota 

Any chance there are still modded FA-10s floating around? I'm not sure how many are in the wild, but I would love to try one out to compare to the stock FA-10. I'm trying to decide between buying a FCN-10 or waiting for a modded FA-10. My concern with the FCN-10 is that it probably has less room to put in bigger caps, plus don't need the DAC or streamer functions.


----------



## ksorota

wenbinbin2010 said:


> @sahmen @Slim1970 @ksorota
> 
> Any chance there are still modded FA-10s floating around? I'm not sure how many are in the wild, but I would love to try one out to compare to the stock FA-10. I'm trying to decide between buying a FCN-10 or waiting for a modded FA-10. My concern with the FCN-10 is that it probably has less room to put in bigger caps, plus don't need the DAC or streamer functions.



I dont recall if I did two or three.  But you have nailed down the two that I know each have one!


----------



## Slim1970

wenbinbin2010 said:


> @sahmen @Slim1970 @ksorota
> 
> Any chance there are still modded FA-10s floating around? I'm not sure how many are in the wild, but I would love to try one out to compare to the stock FA-10. I'm trying to decide between buying a FCN-10 or waiting for a modded FA-10. My concern with the FCN-10 is that it probably has less room to put in bigger caps, plus don't need the DAC or streamer functions.


There are, but with new owners. I moved on from mine. If you can find one that's already modded it's more than worth it. It drives everything and sounds good doing so. On the other hand, you can always have @ksorota mod one for you. That's if you get a new one.


----------



## realmassy

I wanted to follow up after a few days of listening to my new FA-12…glad I received it during the holidays. I think it’s a fantastic amp, totally worth the asking price… and even more to be honest, but hopefully Vitaly won’t raise the price!

I’m not going to spend a lot of words describing mids, highs and lows, but I’ll focus instead on the differences with the Manley Absolute, my other amp, which I’ve used for the last 6 months or so, and briefly with the Burson 3XP.
The FA-12 is noticeably quieter, the Manley has a background hiss that never bothered me, but the solid state amp has definitely a blacker background, both with the Empyrean and the HD800s. I’m not sure this affects the perceived sound quality in any way, maybe on low level passages?

The Manley projects a deeper soundstage, the FA-12 is flatter, but not flat in absolute terms…the Burson is even flatter. The Manley is also the winner in terms of imaging, instruments are nicely solid and well placed on the stage. Tube amps have a clear advantage in that department, they definitely have something magic.

Both amps are fantastic in tonality and timbre, couldn’t really spot any issue: the FA-12 is natural, doesn’t emphasise any frequency or instrument above the others and well masters complex passages…it’s an absolute joy to listen to. The Manley does something magic with piano, but on the other hand the FA-12 is very very convincing with wind instruments.

It has plenty of power, I used the Empyrean and the HD800s in low gain, with the volume pot around 12. The sound doesn’t become harsh at all increasing the volume, no signs of graininess, everything stays nice, smooth and ‘liquid’ for a solid state amplifier, surprisingly liquid in fact.

Build quality is exceptional, the volume pot works flawlessly with a large number of steps and the left/right channels are perfectly balanced even at low volume. I wish the 4 pin headphone output had a lock mechanism, but it not a big deal. No noise coming from the transformers either, which is something i noticed on similarly priced amps in the past.

All in all I think I could happily live with the FA-12 as my only amplifier: it can drive my headphones at stunning levels (I probably even prefer it to the Manley with the HD800s), it is transparent enough to make me realise if a recording is good or not, but it doesn’t trade musicality for detail, so-so recordings are still enjoyable, and I would not want otherwise.


----------



## wolfstar76

Just ordered the fa-10 for my he6se from adorama. Then there is the buyer's remorse kicked in after midfi guy in his Solid State Showdown Series part II mentioned the sharp roll off in the bass ()


----------



## realmassy

Thanks for the link to the video. Interesting that the reviewer finds the signature of the amps ’super bright’, he’s still quite young and probably’fresh’ ears compared to my old ones 😂
I don’t find the stage so wide either or the mids recessed, but on the other hand I never listened to the other 2 amps he mentioned.


----------



## Ichos

FA-10 super bright?


----------



## NickT23

Ichos said:


> FA-10 super bright?


Warm


----------



## Ichos

NickT23 said:


> Warm


Yes I Know..


----------



## NickT23

Ichos said:


> Yes I Know..


FA-10 is not super bright in the treble. But rest of spectrum is neutral. Just have your typical class a warmth.


----------



## Ichos

NickT23 said:


> FA-10 is not super bright in the treble. But rest of spectrum is neutral. Just have your typical class a warmth.


This is why I am wondering about the other reviewer saying that it is super bright.


----------



## NickT23

Ichos said:


> This is why I am wondering about the other reviewer saying that it is super bright.


Ah I see..... could be their headphones or dacs. Sorry for the misunderstanding


----------



## XVampireX

Maybe they are pairing it with bright DACs? My Volot is not bright, it's neutral, with treble extension, but then again NOS has supposedly treble roll off and I can't feel that treble roll off with the Volot and May pairing. Of course FA-10 is not Volot and vice versa, but from what I understand it's a close comparison in terms of sound signature.


----------



## NickT23

NickT23 said:


> Ah I see..... could be their headphones or dacs. Sorry for the misunderstanding


There is a possibility that person is pairing with a highly analytical delta sigma dac and super resolving planar.


----------



## realmassy

The reviewer was using a chord qutest and a denafrips ares… the chord is definitely not to my liking but the ares should be a good match


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> The reviewer was using a chord qutest and a denafrips ares… the chord is definitely not to my liking but the ares should be a good match


The Ares is a good match both with 10 and 12.
I have used this combinations extensively.
No hint of brightness.


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> The Ares is a good match both with 10 and 12.
> I have used this combinations extensively.
> No hint of brightness.


This parallels my experience with the FA-22: 🎵🎼🎶 with the R2R Mojo Audio Mystique. There is no brightness, etch, glare.


----------



## elira

realmassy said:


> The reviewer was using a chord qutest and a denafrips ares… the chord is definitely not to my liking but the ares should be a good match


My qutest paired with the FA-12 is delightful.


----------



## squadgazzz

wolfstar76 said:


> Just ordered the fa-10 for my he6se from adorama. Then there is the buyer's remorse kicked in after midfi guy in his Solid State Showdown Series part II mentioned the sharp roll off in the bass ()



This guy is ridiculous. I personally disagree with almost each of his reviews.


----------



## realmassy

elira said:


> My qutest paired with the FA-12 is delightful.


That’s fair enough, I didn’t say it’s bad, I said I don’t like it. 
I suspect I simply don’t like Chord sound, I had the same feeling with the Hugo and the TT2. Diversity is the spice of this hobby I guess 👍


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 8, 2022)

wolfstar76 said:


> Just ordered the fa-10 for my he6se from adorama. Then there is the buyer's remorse kicked in after midfi guy in his Solid State Showdown Series part II mentioned the sharp roll off in the bass ()



You had valid reasons to order the FA-10 to power the HE6se. Don’t let a hack reviewer ruin your day. Did he spend his own money on the FA-10? PS, any claim of sharp bass rolloff is 🐴 s##t.


----------



## The Hawk

Ichos said:


> FA-10 super bright?


He said the FA-12S is bright as well

And that’s the very minute I stopped watching that review.

I can’t comment to the FA-10 is I’ve never heard it but just about every review I’ve seen/read described it as linear with plenty of punch/dynamics and smooth highs

I do own the FA-12S and that amp is anything but bright. It has excellent bass extension, lovely mids and the highs are smooth as can be with nice extension. And that’s my impression of that amp paired with my 2021 LCD-X. And I’m a very treble sensitive so if a setup is bright I fatigue VERY quickly to that kind of sound signature


----------



## NickT23

The Hawk said:


> He said the FA-12S is bright as well
> 
> And that’s the very minute I stopped watching that review.
> 
> ...


Hello same here. But some people like bright signature, nothing wrong with that. There is always a caveat with sound signatures ! Speaking of bright, am listening to a bright headphones now while writing this comment. But not Flux amp, sadly. If enough money and space I will pull the trigger.


----------



## realmassy

The Hawk said:


> He said the FA-12S is bright as well
> 
> And that’s the very minute I stopped watching that review.
> 
> ...


Same here, I own a FA-12 and I can’t find anything bright in this amp. In fact I love the pairing with the HD800s, that many consider a bright headphone


----------



## NickT23

realmassy said:


> Same here, I own a FA-12 and I can’t find anything bright in this amp. In fact I love the pairing with the HD800s, that many consider a bright headphone


FA12 S is tuned to be warmer right ?


----------



## whitefang (Jan 8, 2022)

FA-10 is not bright. To be very strictly speaking I would even call it borderline dark.
My Th500rp ,which has a bit of sibilance problem, I love it on the FA-10.
actually I almost use it exclusively on the FA-10 because it will tame the sibilance down.


----------



## wolfstar76

Glad to hear the feedback from you guys. I guess I will simply wait for my fa-10 to arrive and test. Thanks for all the posts above.


----------



## The Hawk (Jan 8, 2022)

realmassy said:


> Same here, I own a FA-12 and I can’t find anything bright in this amp. In fact I love the pairing with the HD800s, that many consider a bright headphone


I’ll be curious to hear his thoughts on the Burson Soloist (I believe he intends to discuss that one in his upcoming part 3)

If he finds the FA-12S bright then he should find the Burson even brighter. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about or his testing methods are clearly flawed.

I also own a Burson Soloist 3XP and I use it in conjunction with my FA-12S depending on my mood. When I want that extra detail and such for more complex recordings I use the Burson, when I want a more laid back presentation I use the Flux.

But again……neither one is bright to my ears and both are nice and smooth in the upper registers and as I mentioned earlier…..I’m most definitely treble sensitive.


----------



## realmassy (Jan 9, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> FA12 S is tuned to be warmer right ?


I thought about this, but i’m not sure to be honest.
I have a FA-12 (the balanced version of the S), but I assume the difference is minimal, and it’s mostly power related: if the amp was warm I didn’t expect to be a good match with a notoriously warm headphone like the the Empyrean…today I used the Empys with the same couple of albums I listened to yesterday with the HD800s, and the sound was just as gorgeous. Different of course, because the two headphones are nothing alike, but the FA-12 makes them both sing delightfully, and it’s transparent enough to show the differences in the drivers.

Granted, I listen mostly to nicely recorded music, so I might not appreciate the brightness of one or the bloated bass/thickness of the other one, but to me the FA-12 sounds pretty neutral. The DAC probably plays an important role too…as I mentioned I don’t particularly enjoy the Chord sound, too vivid for my taste.

One thing I’ve noticed though, is that it needs a bit of volume to fill the sound compared to my Manley…at ver low volume it sounds a tad dry.


----------



## The Hawk (Jan 9, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> FA12 S is tuned to be warmer right ?


Compared to the FA-10 yes.

I have no practical knowledge of that as I own a 12S but Flux has described it that way and way back in the early days of this thread there was a gentleman who had the FA-10 and FA-12 at the same time. He described the 12 (which the 12S is claimed to sound very much like) as having more extension and a bit more bloom in the bass. He also felt the mids were a bit more forward and warmer and that the highs were a touch more extended and smoother. He said he preferred the FA-12 as he enjoyed a more relaxed presentation with his music. He said the FA-10 did have better dynamics, layer separation and a bigger and wider soundstage.

As I mentioned in an earlier reply that description aligns with my thoughts on my 12S when compared to my Burson Soloist 3XP most notable difference being the Burson has just as much bass extension and has more slam. The Burson is better at layering and placement of instruments in the soundstage as well.

Both great amps and I love them both and I don’t feel one is better than the other……they just have slightly different presentations. I could be perfectly content owning just a 12S if I had nothing but easy to drive headphones…….it’s a fantastic sounding, beautifully built amp……especially for $499


----------



## Gimmesomeaudio

Anyone knows whether the hifiman he1kse would work well with fa10?


----------



## pompon

Do you have suggestions for HD650
I am using Equinox balanced as cable.

My DAC is Exasound E28mk2 (balanced dac)

I think F12 is better than F10 for my use ? What you think ?

Do you think GS-X mini (used) can be a wortly upgrade or I am at 90% the sound of gs-x already with F10/F12 ?


----------



## Ichos

pompon said:


> Do you have suggestions for HD650
> I am using Equinox balanced as cable.
> 
> My DAC is Exasound E28mk2 (balanced dac)
> ...


If you want to stay in the Flux lab camp then I would suggest the FA-12 for a fully balanced set-up.
Don't break the chain.
Great synergy with the HD650, I have used them extensively while doing the review.


----------



## realmassy

Ichos said:


> If you want to stay in the Flux lab camp then I would suggest the FA-12 for a fully balanced set-up.
> Don't break the chain.
> Great synergy with the HD650, I have used them extensively while doing the review.


Your new avatar is very nice…fantastic choice!


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> Your new avatar is very nice…fantastic choice!


Thank you, another beloved painter and painting!


----------



## whitefang

pompon said:


> Do you have suggestions for HD650
> I am using Equinox balanced as cable.
> 
> My DAC is Exasound E28mk2 (balanced dac)
> ...


I had a caps modded FA-10 and I really liked it, but it is not on the same tier with the GSX mini.
GSX mini is noticably more transparent, smooth and with better imaging.


----------



## akelew

Would FA-10 and Bifrost 2 be an okay pairing or too much of a good thing? 

I'm trying to find what would be the best amp for me to pair with my LCD-3 fazor for primarily EDM listening. 

I was thinking of going burson soloist 3xp but even though thats said to be a smooth 'tube like' sound, from what ive gathered i think its much more neutral than fa-10. The type of sound i like is what pulled me to the LCD-3, organic, smooth, warm, easy listening with heavy hard hitting fast bass.


----------



## kazaakas (Jan 26, 2022)

I'm still the fence on whether to get an FA-10 or FA-12 after reading through this entire massive thread.

Had a several year hiatus from head-fi, but currently got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS on the way. Although this unit apparently has a perfectly usable amp on its own, I do want a beefy, impactful amp to complement the RME.

I've still got a Sennheiser HD6XX, Fostex TH-X00 and a AKG Q701 lying around I would be using it with. However, I do seriously intend to invest in higher end headphones later this year, among which a Sennheiser HD800S, as well as at least one higher end planar magnetic.

However for simplicity's sake I would prefer not to get more than 1 dac (although technically a dac+amp) and 1 amp on my desk. So what I'm really looking for is a RME ADI-2 + discrete amp combo that's neutral and versatile enough to power stuff all the way up to very inefficient planars. I will be using the parametric EQ feature of the RME to tame the sound for specific headphone if it seems necessary.

On the one hand I'm very much drawn to the FA-10 for its raw power, as this would really open up the range of planar magnetics I could combo it with. On the other hand the FA-12 would be very nice to keep the whole chain fully balanced, as several of my headphones have balanced impacts as well. Regarding my preferred sound signature, as a basshead I'm doubting whether the extra headroom on the FA-10 or the warmer character of the FA-12 will have the best effect on bass. Any suggestions regarding this situation, e.g. what the FA-10's or FA-12's effect would be on sound signature and versatility of the stack?


----------



## wolfstar76

For those already have the AMP, how long have you guys been waiting? I ordered on Jan 07 and the status is still in processing. Given the situation in Ukrain, I am a little worried that operations/shipping might get disrupted by the incoming conflict or even invasion from Russia.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 26, 2022)

kazaakas said:


> I'm still the fence on whether to get an FA-10 or FA-12 after reading through this entire massive thread.
> 
> Had a several year hiatus from head-fi, but currently got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS on the way. Although this unit apparently has a perfectly usable amp on its own, I do want a beefy, impactful amp to complement the RME.
> 
> ...



FA-12 for sure. Only get the FA-10 if it's needed. FA-10 got lots of power, but it's not the most detailed and impactful option out there. It's a great amp, but not a benchmark in any detail of its presentation. It feels slow, that will make things kind of forgiving but would kill the point of your idea of just EQing things.

Fluxlab FA-10 would probably pair will with something like a more clinical unforgiving presenting DAC. Or a dac that happens to be overly impactful/slammy to compensate.


----------



## NickT23

wolfstar76 said:


> For those already have the AMP, how long have you guys been waiting? I ordered on Jan 07 and the status is still in processing. Given the situation in Ukrain, I am a little worried that operations/shipping might get disrupted by the incoming conflict or even invasion from Russia.


Lets just hope Russia wont invade Ukraine.


----------



## wolfstar76

kazaakas said:


> I'm still the fence on whether to get an FA-10 or FA-12 after reading through this entire massive thread.
> 
> Had a several year hiatus from head-fi, but currently got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS on the way. Although this unit apparently has a perfectly usable amp on its own, I do want a beefy, impactful amp to complement the RME.
> 
> ...


I would suggest you settle for what you got now for a while, and focus on the headphones you want. If you endup with very hard to drive planar, such as HE6SE or susvara, you can go ahead with FA-10, otherwise, FA-12, or other better pairing AMP with your choice of headphones.


----------



## kazaakas

Infoseeker said:


> FA-12 for sure. Only get the FA-10 if it's needed. FA-10 got lots of power, but it's not the most detailed and impactful option out there. It's a great amp, but not a benchmark in any detail of its presentation. It feels slow, that will make things kind of forgiving but would kill the point of your idea of just EQing things.
> 
> Fluxlab FA-10 would probably pair will with something like a more clinical unforgiving presenting DAC. Or a dac that happens to be overly impactful/slammy to compensate.



Are there any full reviews of the FA-12? Or anecdotal comparisons with FA-10 from users? Having a bit of a problem finding info on the FA-12.

Where did you get the info on about the FA-12 being more detailed, faster and slammy? Have you owned one? These alleged benefits, together with it being fully balanced, definitely spark my interest.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 26, 2022)

kazaakas said:


> Are there any full reviews of the FA-12? Or anecdotal comparisons with FA-10 from users? Having a bit of a problem finding info on the FA-12.
> 
> Where did you get the info on about the FA-12 being more detailed, faster and slammy? Have you owned one? These alleged benefits, together with it being fully balanced, definitely spark my interest.



Wait. I wrote that from the point of view of my owning the FA-10. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant the FA-10 is not worth the blind buy between the choices you put forward.

I don't own the FA-12 to put it forward in praises. Just that it's more universally praised subjectively (and even objectively) across many forums, discord channels, & reviews.

There is alot of data on the FA-12 just you need more time to find it. But I can give you feedback that my FA-10 doesn't follow the same suit of how the FA-12 is described.

(FA-10 does good, but FA-10 is not crazy amazing enough for me to hype. To consider, FA-12 seems universally praised.)


----------



## kazaakas

Thanks! Interestingly, the only head-to-head comparison I could find between the FA-10 and the FA-12, was on this forum:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/reviews#review-25337
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/reviews#review-26843

Interestingly in the review of the FA-12, there is a chapter where it is being compared with the FA-10, where the reviewer claiming kind of the opposite!:



> *Comparison with the FA-10*
> 
> For the comparison we have used the FCN-10 with the analogue input which is essentially the same amp portion as the FA-10.
> 
> ...



If anyone is aware of more head-to-head comparisons of the two, please chime in.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 26, 2022)

Hmm, maybe I should try to get a Denefrips Ares to pair with my FA-10. Or whatever was used.


----------



## Ichos (Jan 27, 2022)

@kazaakas

How can I help?

I am the author of both reviews and I don't agree that the FA-10 does good but the FA-12 better.

Both amplifiers are of the same caliber and equally great.
Differences are more to rather a different take on the same thing.
The power of the FA-10 is undeniable and is better suited for difficult planars.
The FA-12 is a fully balanced design so the first advantage is when someone has a fully balanced chain that would like to keep intact.
Then sound presentation is slightly different and it comes down to preferences.
FA-12 is more intimate than the FA-10 which is a little grander.
The FA-10 is about scale and dynamics while the FA-12 is more zesty, relaxed, giving you a nice hug.
Both amplifiers are equally good on technicalities and share the same musical house sound.
I wouldn't have a problem to live with either of them and I didn't find anyone of them to lack in synergy with a particular headphone.
I used all my available arsenal with both and I never thought that I would choose one over the other with a certain headphone.
I am 100% classical music listener and I would probably use the FA-10 most of the time but then I love the FA-12 for some chamber music.
You see very difficult to choose, this is the problem with excellent sounding products like them.
In the end if my only/main DAC was fully balanced then I would go with the FA-12 because I am OCD and I don't like to break the chain.
Ah, choices... choices...


----------



## NickT23

Infoseeker said:


> Hmm, maybe I should try to get a Denefrips Ares to pair with my FA-10. Or whatever was used.


Are you aware they have the FCN-10 ? Go check it out, delta sigma AKM 4493 chip. Its a combo unit.


----------



## kazaakas (Jan 27, 2022)

Ichos said:


> @kazaakas
> How can I help?
> 
> I am the author of both reviews and I don't agree that the FA-10 does good but the FA-12 better.
> ...



Thanks, that's super helpful! If anything, that makes me veer towards the FA-10 even more. I can get a tamer, less overpowered sound from the integrated amp in my DAC anyway, with optionally a bit of warm EQ.

This actually changes my interest from FA-12 vs FA-10 compariton to the FA-10 vs FA-10 Pro comparison. On Flux Labs their website the specs are nearly the same, the main difference being 0.008% vs 0.002% THD. From what I can gather from the pictures, it seems mainly the capacitors are different on the FA-10 Pro. Perhaps this is a similar capacitor upgrade to @ksorota has done for @Slim1970 .

I've sent them an email asking about the comparison between the two. Will share here if I hear anything back.

EDIT: Found a little bit of info in one of their facebook posts about the FA-10 vs FA-10 Pro: https://www.facebook.com/fluxlabaco...and-implement-all-your-needs/750226055518411/ :


> Today we are glad to announce our new model of headphone amplifier - FLUX FA-10 PRO. Our solution called to become the heart of PRO-audio system, providing the power, precision and сontrol, that needs to create music or just for music lovers who need a solution for a critical listening of the records.
> Ahead of your questions about the difference FA-10 vs FA-10 PRO, we prepared a small comparison between those two models.
> FA-10 features
> - JFET inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design;
> ...


----------



## cfranchi

NickT23 said:


> Are you aware they have the FCN-10 ? Go check it out, delta sigma AKM 4493 chip. Its a combo unit.



FCN-10 is very (very) good (it has also streaming capability) at the price asked it’s a bargain, it drives all my headphones wonderfully, and it is so convenient : no amp, dac, streamer separate devices.


----------



## Ichos

cfranchi said:


> FCN-10 is very (very) good (it has also streaming capability) at the price asked it’s a bargain, it drives all my headphones wonderfully, and it is so convenient : no amp, dac, streamer separate devices.


I can agree %100.
End game for a lot of people.


----------



## kazaakas

For anyone who's interested in modding the FA-10, here's a copy from a PM conversation between me and @ksorota about replacing the capacitors on the amp. Some impressions of the effects of this way of recapping can be found here, here and here.



> Yes, I used all silmic II and Mundorf. All the capacitance ratings remained the same but some of the voltage ratings had to go higher because not all are represented by Elna. The Mundorfs for instance only go in the power reserves section and were upgraded to 63v caps as a 50v variant wasnt available.
> 
> Here is my parts list. I rewrote it for clarity.
> 
> ...



Other than the recap, another mod that's being talked about is a fuse mod, that's supposedly synergistic with the modded caps.


----------



## Astral Abyss

kazaakas said:


> For anyone who's interested in modding the FA-10, here's a copy from a PM conversation between me and @ksorota about replacing the capacitors on the amp. Some impressions of the effects of this way of recapping can be found here, here and here.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the recap, another mod that's being talked about is a fuse mod, that's supposedly synergistic with the modded caps.


Why all the talk of modding the amp when you haven't even heard it yet?  Just enjoy it.


----------



## elira

Astral Abyss said:


> Why all the talk of modding the amp when you haven't even heard it yet?  Just enjoy it.


Because it makes it "better" and people in this forum usually look for the best. Settling is not an option.


----------



## kazaakas (Feb 1, 2022)

Astral Abyss said:


> Why all the talk of modding the amp when you haven't even heard it yet?  Just enjoy it.


I just got curious as it came up when I was comparing all the different models. I certainly don't intend to mod it within the first few months, if not the first year, of usage.

The thing is though, with these mods, if people want to perform them years down the line, the inventor of the mod may not be available for contact, or the details may have been forgotten. Since there are several members talking about this mod in the thread, I think it's nice to have the specifics of the mod in the thread as well, so it will never get lost.


----------



## lightoflight

Just curious, what would be the cost of parts and labor associated with doing the mod?


----------



## wolfstar76

It seems that the lead time for Flux is longer now. I was told the lead time will be 15 working days but my order on 1/7 is still in processing.


----------



## XLR2XLR

wolfstar76 said:


> It seems that the lead time for Flux is longer now. I was told the lead time will be 15 working days but my order on 1/7 is still in processing.


I waited for over 2 months for the FA-12 and Volot, but these units were worth waiting for.
Just relax and enjoy the audio toys you already have


----------



## realmassy

FWIW, i was quoted 15 days too for the FA-12, but it took about 4 weeks.The wait was well worth it


----------



## realmassy

Speaking of the FA-12, I just noticed the technical specs are slightly different from the FA-10. In particular the balanced input impedance is very different, 20K Ohm balanced for the FA-12 and 3K Ohm for the FA-10. This can potentially have an impact using sources with high impedance output, like Denafrips DACs. I'm wondering what the difference is due to.


----------



## kazaakas

XLR2XLR said:


> I waited for over 2 months for the FA-12 and Volot, but these units were worth waiting for.
> Just relax and enjoy the audio toys you already have



You got both of those units?! That's amazing. Would love to hear more about your experience with the two.


----------



## XLR2XLR

kazaakas said:


> You got both of those units?! That's amazing. Would love to hear more about your experience with the two.


I already shared my impressions in the Volot thread 

I couldn't make myself to put the FA-12 up for sale because I still like it a lot. The Volot is a power monster amp with huge and 3-dimensional soundstage, it sounds very transparent, detailed, and uncolored. IMO the FA-12 is slightly more musical and energetic. I highly recommend both these amps.


----------



## Honeypot (Feb 6, 2022)

Hi guys. I didn't post for a while here.. been busy with irl.

Actually i own fa-12 and lcdx. Feeding the fa12 from a d90(AKM version).
Recently i purchased a denafrips pontus 2 (will arrive in like a week or so), but I rly didn't look up at the impedances output and input of the both. I don't rly know how this works either. Will these two pair good?

Thanks in advance

Edit: answer from Vitaliy:

 In the case of the FA-12, there is nothing to worry about, since the input impedance of the amplifier is high enough to work seamlessly with the specified DAC. The FA-12 is recommended to be used exclusively with an XLR connection.


----------



## Honeypot

Hello... I am recently thinking in upgrading my audeze lcdx.
I know it's a matter of taste. But what could be a reasonable jump from the audeze lcdx?
I love the bass and treable they provide but I find them a bit lacking in resolution and soundstage. 
What would be your council guys/girls?

Cheers


----------



## jonathan c

Honeypot said:


> Hello... I am recently thinking in upgrading my audeze lcdx.
> I know it's a matter of taste. But what could be a reasonable jump from the audeze lcdx?
> I love the bass and treable they provide but I find them a bit lacking in resolution and soundstage.
> What would be your council guys/girls?
> ...


•  In post #2,088 of _this _thread, I advised that you go for the Ares II DAC. You have gone one better!: the Pontus II. Before you ‘ditch’ the LCD-X, give them some serious listening time with the Pontus II in the system. You may (will) find that your concerns over resolution & soundstage disappear. If you can, try different h/p cable.
• When I am listening to my LCD-X (2016, no EQ), the DAC is Mojo Audio Mystique (NOS / R2R) and the h/p cable is Forza Noir Hybrid. Guess what? _To my ears, _the resolution & soundstage are immense: especially via the Flux Labs FA-22 ! This is a system that is close to yours.
•  Listen awhile then decide.


----------



## Ichos

The HD820 from the tour just landed so it time for the heavy artillery...



The FCN-10 is an awesome piece of gear.
You have to throw a lot of cash in order to get something considerably better...


----------



## wolfstar76

My order status is finally changed to completed. However, still no email received or USP Express tracking info post. I guess that's the issue with small company, the package will unexpectedly arrive.


----------



## Honeypot

The pontus Ii is at home ^^


----------



## Ichos

Honeypot said:


> The pontus Ii is at home ^^


The Holly Trinity!
You are in for a treat!


----------



## Iggnasty

Any thoughts on the FA-22 been able to power the HE6SE V2?


----------



## wolfstar76

Iggnasty said:


> Any thoughts on the FA-22 been able to power the HE6SE V2?


I believe there were discussions already in this thread. You can certainly power HE6SE V2 with FA-22, but the question is which one is better. I chose FA-10 based on my research for my HE6SE V2.


----------



## Majors

Iggnasty said:


> Any thoughts on the FA-22 been able to power the HE6SE V2?


I love the sound with my FA-22. On High Gain the volume probably sits about 2 o'clock. I bought FA 22 for the mosfet Magic.


----------



## Honeypot

Have you guys any opinions on GOLDPOINT SW2X ? I intent to output from pontus2 to the goldpoint and one output to speakers and the other output to fa-12. I've research a bit and it seems to be quiet good. 
Active preamp vs passive


----------



## wolfstar76

Just received my fa-10. I found that it makes clicking soud when you turn the volume knob when it is turned on. Is it normal?


----------



## XLR2XLR

wolfstar76 said:


> Just received my fa-10. I found that it makes clicking soud when you turn the volume knob when it is turned on. Is it normal?


It's absolutely normal. This is how all relay attenuators work.


----------



## Ichos

wolfstar76 said:


> Just received my fa-10. I found that it makes clicking soud when you turn the volume knob when it is turned on. Is it normal?


Yes pretty normal, don't worry it is part of the magic!


----------



## wolfstar76 (Feb 18, 2022)

Thanks for the above replies. I just found out that I can plugin both my HE6SE and Sundara in FA-10. Of course, with moderate sound level on HE6SE it is already deafening on Sundara. Have to make a decision whether to keep my Sundara as it is redundant. I found that I have to use high gain and 3 clock to make HE6SE sound okay to me.


----------



## cfranchi

wolfstar76 said:


> Thanks for the above replies. I just found out that I can plugin both my HE6SE and Sundara in FA-10. Of course, with moderate sound level on HE6SE it is already deafening on Sundara. Have to make a decision whether to keep my Sundara as it is redundant. I found that I have to use high gain and 3 clock to make HE6SE sound okay to me.



3 clock! you should have really bad ear! 
I like to listen loud and I’m around 1 oclock
Which pads do you use ? Did you check your drivers ? Defect HE6se can have drivers stuck to the magnet.


----------



## realmassy

My God, I usually at 11 o’clock on low gain with the Empyrean or the HD800s!


----------



## artist777

How far you can turn the volume knob will also depend on the output level of the DAC. And this level is different for everyone, some have more, some have less.


----------



## wolfstar76 (Feb 19, 2022)

cfranchi said:


> 3 clock! you should have really bad ear!
> I like to listen loud and I’m around 1 oclock
> Which pads do you use ? Did you check your drivers ? Defect HE6se can have drivers stuck to the magnet.


I am using all stock. I got Dekoni Elite valour pad, but could not find any difference and the fit is not as good as the stock pad. I also tried grill mod, again no impact. I indeed checked the drivers, they are not stucked. The bass impact is huge. BTW, 3 o'clock is for Youtuber music, for my local lossless music, I will tune it down to 1 o'clock.

Well I haven't done any long term listening yet, I need to say that for that purpose, 3 o'clock is definitely not healthy, if bearable.


----------



## wolfstar76

artist777 said:


> How far you can turn the volume knob will also depend on the output level of the DAC. And this level is different for everyone, some have more, some have less.


I am still using Schiit Modi 3, will upgrade it later.


----------



## Xerosnake90

Hey everyone, 

Stumbled on these power houses and was wondering if anyone had a low down on how much current these are pushing? I have the V2 Arya which I'm driving with a Jotunheim 2 amp and I've heard good things about the Soloist 3xp. FA is cheaper and more powerful, but I've yet to hear about how it sounds. Which would work best for Arya V2? Fa 10 or 10p, or 12/12s?


----------



## lolhahaha

cfranchi said:


> FCN-10 is very (very) good (it has also streaming capability) at the price asked it’s a bargain, it drives all my headphones wonderfully, and it is so convenient : no amp, dac, streamer separate devices.



Did they stop making these? Seems to be out of stock for a while now. I was about to order one too.


----------



## wolfstar76

lolhahaha said:


> Did they stop making these? Seems to be out of stock for a while now. I was about to order one too.


Interesting, the the Atlas is also out of stock. IMO, AIO is usually a bad ideal, DAC/AMP is okay but adding streamer will not make any sense.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Xerosnake90 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Stumbled on these power houses and was wondering if anyone had a low down on how much current these are pushing? I have the V2 Arya which I'm driving with a Jotunheim 2 amp and I've heard good things about the Soloist 3xp. FA is cheaper and more powerful, but I've yet to hear about how it sounds. Which would work best for Arya V2? Fa 10 or 10p, or 12/12s?


Before selling my Arya V2s, I had excellent sonic results driving them with a FA-22 so a FA-12 and certainly a FA-10 should have no issues.


----------



## ardbeg1975 (Feb 20, 2022)

wolfstar76 said:


> Interesting, the the Atlas is also out of stock. IMO, AIO is usually a bad ideal, DAC/AMP is okay but adding streamer will not make any sense.


As the DAC portions were driven by AKM chips, I presume they are out of stock while Flux determines chipset alternatives similar to Schiit’s migration from AKM to ESS for their DS DACs.


----------



## lolhahaha

wolfstar76 said:


> Interesting, the the Atlas is also out of stock. IMO, AIO is usually a bad ideal, DAC/AMP is okay but adding streamer will not make any sense.


Yeah well they saved me a lot of cash I guess since I found a good deal elsewhere, on here actually.


----------



## DeweyCH

wolfstar76 said:


> Just received my fa-10. I found that it makes clicking soud when you turn the volume knob when it is turned on. Is it normal?


When did you order yours? I ordered one on January 21st and haven’t heard anything since. Not like there’s any strife in Ukraine or anything…


----------



## wolfstar76 (Feb 22, 2022)

DeweyCH said:


> When did you order yours? I ordered one on January 21st and haven’t heard anything since. Not like there’s any strife in Ukraine or anything…


I ordered on 1/7 and got the confirmation/option question email on 1/9. I actually emailed them regarding the concern of longer lead time than expected and the possibility of Russian interference. Vitaliy replied with outright denial of any possibility of Russian invasion, said it was just media heat. This gave me the imprerssion of Vitaliy might be thouse pro-Russian people.

With the current situation, not sure how it will affect your order. However, it seems that my order went through Poland, before reaching the UPS European hub in Germany. I am not familiar with georgrahy of Ukraine, you may google and find the potential issue regarding the shipping.

Good luck to your order!

PS, I just googled and it seems that Kharkov, _Ukraine, where Flux lab locates, is at the border of Ukraine and Russia. It does not look well. _


----------



## RenEh

Who needs warranty’s right bros?


----------



## XLR2XLR (Apr 3, 2022)

This invasion will certainly have a negative impact on all businesses in Ukraine including Flux Labs. I hope they and their families will manage to get through this tragedy safe.
My wife is Ukrainian and many of her relatives live in Ukraine, so for my family, this war is more that just the news on a TV. I hope the world will make everything to stop this invasion as soon as possible and save lives.

As for the warranty, the Flux products have proven to be trouble-free. I own two of their units, and so far they are bringing nothing but pure enjoyment.


----------



## DeweyCH

XLR2XLR said:


> This invasion will certainly have a negative impact on all businesses in Ukraine including Flux Labs. I hope they and their families will manage to get through this tragedy safe.
> My wife is Ukrainian and many of her relatives live in Ukraine, so for family, this war is more that just the news on a TV. I hope the world will make everything to stop this invasion as soon as possible and safe lives.
> 
> Is for the warranty, the Flux products have proven to be trouble-free. I own two of their units, and so far they are bringing nothing but pure enjoyment.


My wife's Romanian and it's scary enough having family bordering the war. Can't imagine what you're going through. Truly hope Vitaliy comes through OK, and that this horror show is short-circuited somehow. I'm pretty sure my amp isn't coming ever, but that's so goddamned trivial.


----------



## lightoflight

I have my FA-12 plugged into a SurgeX SA-1810 and I noticed it degraded the sound output. Does anyone know of a good industrial grade surge protector that does not degrade the sound?


----------



## Majors

lightoflight said:


> I have my FA-12 plugged into a SurgeX SA-1810 and I noticed it degraded the sound output. Does anyone know of a good industrial grade surge protector that does not degrade the sound?


In my humble opinion surge protection will always degrade the sound in some way or another. If it has a power switch and surge protection don't use in audio. But if you must you might look into the Denafrips one.


----------



## realmassy

http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/master-purifiers/psm136/
is what I’m using for all my audio equipment (including the FA-12). It works really well and does wonders on my Manley Absolute


----------



## Ichos

realmassy said:


> http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/master-purifiers/psm136/
> is what I’m using for all my audio equipment (including the FA-12). It works really well and does wonders on my Manley Absolute


They look very interesting products.
I must check on them...


----------



## Majors

https://www.ametekesp.com/resources/white-papers


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## Ichos (Feb 27, 2022)

My latest review of FA-12 is now dedicated to the suffering people of Ukraine with the wish for the war to end as soon as possible.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/review/26843/


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## Stromen

Just got this mail from Flux Labs. Guess they wouldn’t mind that I post this here.

“Now our production has stopped, but we and our factory are safe.
We will continue all orders after the end of the fighting.
Thank you very much for your understanding.”

Right now I couldn’t care less for my order. Let’s hope this war is ending really quick.


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## XLR2XLR

Stromen said:


> Right now I couldn’t care less for my order. Let’s hope this war is ending really quick.


Here's what Flux Lab posted on their FB page. 
I hope it's going to end soon


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## ardbeg1975

Have my FA-22 listed in Classifieds for anyone here who may have interest.


----------



## lightoflight

ardbeg1975 said:


> Have my FA-22 listed in Classifieds for anyone here who may have interest.


What did you replace it with?


----------



## ardbeg1975

lightoflight said:


> What did you replace it with?


LTA MZ3 which replaced both the Flux SS amp and a Tor Audio Balanced transformer coupled tube amp.


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## lightoflight (Mar 30, 2022)

I'm getting great synergy pairing the FA-12 with Gustard P26 Class-A preamp with upgraded op-amps to Burson V6 Vivid. Night and day difference in clarity, soundstage and imaging. It has the same soundstage and imaging as the GT, given the GT has a slight clarity and I mean slight. FA-12 warmth, bass thickness and bass impact make the music sound so much fuller, and it just smashes on the GT. I wish my Soloist 3X GT sound this good.


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## XLR2XLR

I've listed my FA-12 for sale if anyone is interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/flux-fa-12-silver.23170/


----------



## Infoseeker

Anyone know what the input limits/input sensitivity are of the FluxLab Fa-10 amp? I am curious if I can connect it to a Dangerous Convert 2 pro dac which has a hot signal....I think it's 9.75vrms?

I've had it connected to the 6vrms output of my Gustard a22 previously.


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## Majors (May 3, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> Anyone know what the input limits/input sensitivity are of the FluxLab Fa-10 amp? I am curious if I can connect it to a Dangerous Convert 2 pro dac which has a hot signal....I think it's 9.75vrms?
> 
> I've had it connected to the 6vrms output of my Gustard a22 previously


From the website:

Input Impedance10kOhm (SE input), 3.3kOhm (BAL input)
 
How did you like the Dangerous/Gustard combo?


----------



## MacMan31

I'm looking at one of these. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-10-class-a-headphone-amplifier-silver-front/  Has anyone here compared it with the Schiit Jotenheim 2? I'd be pairing the FA-10 with a Bifrost 2. Also I did not know these were made in Ukraine. I hope this insane war ends soon. My Ukrainian friend lives in France but her family is still in Ukraine. I hope they remain safe.


----------



## NickT23

MacMan31 said:


> I'm looking at one of these. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-10-class-a-headphone-amplifier-silver-front/  Has anyone here compared it with the Schiit Jotenheim 2? I'd be pairing the FA-10 with a Bifrost 2. Also I did not know these were made in Ukraine. I hope this insane war ends soon. My Ukrainian friend lives in France but her family is still in Ukraine. I hope they remain safe.


Are they an audio enthusiasts ?


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## MacMan31

NickT23 said:


> Are they an audio enthusiasts ?



My friend? Nope. I'm sure they enjoy music but they are not into audio gear.


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## NickT23

MacMan31 said:


> My friend? Nope. I'm sure they enjoy music but they are not into audio gear.


That should be the way.


----------



## MacMan31

So I just got the Flux FA-10. I'm comparing it with my Jot 2. Both connected to my Bifrost 2. So far there is no really noticeable difference between the two amps. The vocals are perhaps a bit more forward on the Jot 2 and maybe a bit more bass as well. The FA-10 perhaps gives a bit more separation between instruments while vocals are a touch more recessed. Details are the same for both amps. Despite the FA-10 boasting 16 watts per channel I have to put the volume between 12 and 1 o'clock compared with the Jot 2 which is between 10 and 11 o'clock. I also didn't anticipate the FA-10 being so much bigger in size compared with the Schiit gear.


----------



## wazzupi

MacMan31 said:


> So I just got the Flux FA-10. I'm comparing it with my Jot 2. Both connected to my Bifrost 2. So far there is no really noticeable difference between the two amps. The vocals are perhaps a bit more forward on the Jot 2 and maybe a bit more bass as well. The FA-10 perhaps gives a bit more separation between instruments while vocals are a touch more recessed. Details are the same for both amps. Despite the FA-10 boasting 16 watts per channel I have to put the volume between 12 and 1 o'clock compared with the Jot 2 which is between 10 and 11 o'clock. I also didn't anticipate the FA-10 being so much bigger in size compared with the Schiit gear.


Are your headphones the ones you have listed ? If so I probably wouldn’t have picked up the flux FA-10 just my opinion.


----------



## MacMan31

wazzupi said:


> Are your headphones the ones you have listed ? If so I probably wouldn’t have picked up the flux FA-10 just my opinion.



My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. Why would you have not chosen this amp for these headphones?


----------



## wazzupi

MacMan31 said:


> My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. Why would you have not chosen this amp for these headphones?


I believe that amp was tailored to planar or highly inefficient hps and you have a dynamic and what I believe is a bio cellulose driver which I don’t think you are getting the most out of that amp with said hps.


----------



## MacMan31

wazzupi said:


> I believe that amp was tailored to planar or highly inefficient hps and you have a dynamic and what I believe is a bio cellulose driver which I don’t think you are getting the most out of that amp with said hps.



So I should buy planar or highly inefficient headphones? I think the only planar I've had was the Audeze LCD-2C.


----------



## wazzupi

I’m not trying to tell you to buy anything  I’m just saying might not be a real synergy purchase for what you currently own and I’m sure enjoy. If you’re venturing into planar and something like the he6 or susvaras I think it’ll add value to your flux FA-10 amp.


----------



## haasaaroni

MacMan31 said:


> My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. Why would you have not chosen this amp for these headphones?


If you want a good Solid State option for those, I’d think the FA-10, with its spaciousness and detailed upper frequencies, would bring some life to both of those headphones. That being said, its sound is fairly neutral, so a higher end OTL or other tube amp might let you enjoy the 6XX and Aeolus more than a higher end solid state would.

I also agree with wazzupi, this amp really is built for harder to drive planars, or anything with a low-ish impedance but also low sensitivity.


----------



## wolfstar76

I have HE6SE, which is extremely hard to drive, and that is the major reason why I bought FA-10 since at the power level FA-10 is relatively cheaper. For 6xx, you do have a lot more choices to make.


----------



## MacMan31

wazzupi said:


> I’m not trying to tell you to buy anything  I’m just saying might not be a real synergy purchase for what you currently own and I’m sure enjoy. If you’re venturing into planar and something like the he6 or susvaras I think it’ll add value to your flux FA-10 amp.



What about the Hifiman Ananda? I got the FA-10 cause it seems to have overall positive reviews. I've also been looking at amps like the SingXer SA-1 or Rebel Amp or Bottlehead Crack.


----------



## haasaaroni

MacMan31 said:


> What about the Hifiman Ananda? I got the FA-10 cause it seems to have overall positive reviews. I've also been looking at amps like the SingXer SA-1 or Rebel Amp or Bottlehead Crack.


BHC is a definite win with your headphones! I enjoy mine with my Aeolus and 6XX regularly 👍🏻


----------



## wazzupi

I personally don’t think the Ananda’s need that that amp but it’s more of a step in the right direction for that amp.


----------



## wazzupi

I agree OTL tube amps + dynamic drivers and high impedance headphones is a win !!!


----------



## wazzupi

My first love was the OG La Figaro 339 and the hd650 back in 2009 xD


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> What about the Hifiman Ananda? I got the FA-10 cause it seems to have overall positive reviews. I've also been looking at amps like the SingXer SA-1 or Rebel Amp or Bottlehead Crack.


IMO the Ananda is well powered with the fully balanced FA-12. Might as well enjoy the refinement of a fully balanced amp.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> What about the Hifiman Ananda? I got the FA-10 cause it *seems to have overall positive reviews. *I've also been looking at amps like the SingXer SA-1 or Rebel Amp or Bottlehead Crack.


•  When you read those reviews, did you gather for what headphone(s) the FA-10 might be a best match? Was there anything in those reviews to indicate a _great_ FA-10/HD-6XX or FA-10/Aeolus match? I sense mixed motivations in your acquiring the FA-10.
•  Do you _really_ like your Aeolus and 6XX? Do you plan to keep them? Yes? Let’s work ‘upstream’. @wazzupi, just above, understands one of headphone audio’s basic ‘laws’. So for your Aeolus and 6XX, it is _high output impedance _OTL tube h/p/a time. In this arena, there are a number of reasonably (non exorbitantly) priced candidates: Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, Eufonika (a few models), Feliks Echo, Feliks Elise, Woo WA2, Woo WA3 just to start. [Note: Valhalla 2 does not qualify here since it is a _low output impedance _OTL tube h/p/a.] This is where you should be looking _if you want to maximise the musicality of what you hear from your system.
•  _Matching a amplifier to a headphone is far more likely to bring musical satisfaction than matching a headphone to an amplifier.


----------



## MacMan31

haasaaroni said:


> BHC is a definite win with your headphones! I enjoy mine with my Aeolus and 6XX regularly 👍🏻


I put an ad on CAM for a BHC assembler. Got a few replies already. Perhaps I'll go with one of those.


----------



## MacMan31

RenEh said:


> IMO the Ananda is well powered with the fully balanced FA-12. Might as well enjoy the refinement of a fully balanced amp.



So the FA-10 is not balanced? It has XLR in and XLR headphone out. 



jonathan c said:


> •  When you read those reviews, did you gather for what headphone(s) the FA-10 might be a best match? Was there anything in those reviews to indicate a _great_ FA-10/HD-6XX or FA-10/Aeolus match? I sense mixed motivations in your acquiring the FA-10.
> •  Do you _really_ like your Aeolus and 6XX? Do you plan to keep them? Yes? Let’s work ‘upstream’. @wazzupi, just above, understands one of headphone audio’s basic ‘laws’. So for your Aeolus and 6XX, it is _high output impedance _OTL tube h/p/a time. In this arena, there are a number of reasonably (non exorbitantly) priced candidates: Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, Eufonika (a few models), Feliks Echo, Feliks Elise, Woo WA2, Woo WA3 just to start. [Note: Valhalla 2 does not qualify here since it is a _low output impedance _OTL tube h/p/a.] This is where you should be looking _if you want to maximise the musicality of what you hear from your system.
> •  _Matching a amplifier to a headphone is far more likely to bring musical satisfaction than matching a headphone to an amplifier.



So "technically" the Valhalla 2 is not a good match for my headphones? It sounds good to me. I've considered the Echo. It's also over $1,200 Canadian. Of those you mentioned the BHC seems like the most likely option for me. That's if I go with a tube amp.


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> So the FA-10 is not balanced? It has XLR in and XLR headphone out.
> 
> 
> 
> So "technically" the Valhalla 2 is not a good match for my headphones? It sounds good to me. I've considered the Echo. It's also over $1,200 Canadian. Of those you mentioned the BHC seems like the most likely option for me. That's if I go with a tube amp.


The FA-10 is not fully balanced. Eufonika is an option I’m looking at myself. Cheaper than the crack+speedball, assembled and can be customized. I’m not sure, but I’m told the h5 compares favorably to the crack+speedball.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> So the FA-10 is not balanced? It has XLR in and XLR headphone out.
> 
> 
> 
> So "technically" the Valhalla 2 is not a good match for my headphones? It sounds good to me. I've considered the Echo. It's also over $1,200 Canadian. Of those you mentioned the BHC seems like the most likely option for me. That's if I go with a tube amp.


The Valhalla 2 sounds ‘good’ to me when I use the Aeolus, Auteur, Eikon: no complaints. BUT, the sound from Aeolus, Auteur, Eikon _blossoms_ when the h/p/a is the Woo WA2 (OTL) or Woo WA3 (OTL).


----------



## MacMan31

RenEh said:


> The FA-10 is not fully balanced. Eufonika is an option I’m looking at myself. Cheaper than the crack+speedball, assembled and can be customized. I’m not sure, but I’m told the h5 compares favorably to the crack+speedball.



This one? https://soundperfectionreviews.com/review-eufonika-h5-headphone-amplifier/ 


jonathan c said:


> The Valhalla 2 sounds ‘good’ to me when I use the Aeolus, Auteur, Eikon: no complaints. BUT, the sound from Aeolus, Auteur, Eikon _blossoms_ when the h/p/a is the Woo WA2 (OTL) or Woo WA3 (OTL).



Well anything from Woo Audio would have to be a used option for me to afford it in Canada.


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> This one? https://soundperfectionreviews.com/review-eufonika-h5-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> 
> Well anything from Woo Audio would have to be a used option for me to afford it in Canada.


That’s the one. I haven’t heard it myself, so take my opinion with a cup of salt.


----------



## Ichos

The FA-10 and Jot 2 are close enough in power output when load is 300Ω it is 1.7WPC vs 1.2WPC.
But when it comes to 32Ω then the difference is huge, it is 16WPC vs 6WPC this is why the FA-10 is supposedly better for low Z difficult to drive planars.
Of course that doesn't mean that it cannot power your high Z headphones.


----------



## fiiom11pro

MacMan31 said:


> So I just got the Flux FA-10. I'm comparing it with my Jot 2. Both connected to my Bifrost 2. So far there is no really noticeable difference between the two amps. The vocals are perhaps a bit more forward on the Jot 2 and maybe a bit more bass as well. The FA-10 perhaps gives a bit more separation between instruments while vocals are a touch more recessed. Details are the same for both amps. Despite the FA-10 boasting 16 watts per channel I have to put the volume between 12 and 1 o'clock compared with the Jot 2 which is between 10 and 11 o'clock. I also didn't anticipate the FA-10 being so much bigger in size compared with the Schiit gear.


thanks for the review.

very nice review and helpful.


----------



## NickT23

wazzupi said:


> I believe that amp was tailored to planar or highly inefficient hps and you have a dynamic and what I believe is a bio cellulose driver which I don’t think you are getting the most out of that amp with said hps.


Why is it so ?


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> •  When you read those reviews, did you gather for what headphone(s) the FA-10 might be a best match? Was there anything in those reviews to indicate a _great_ FA-10/HD-6XX or FA-10/Aeolus match? I sense mixed motivations in your acquiring the FA-10.
> •  Do you _really_ like your Aeolus and 6XX? Do you plan to keep them? Yes? Let’s work ‘upstream’. @wazzupi, just above, understands one of headphone audio’s basic ‘laws’. So for your Aeolus and 6XX, it is _high output impedance _OTL tube h/p/a time. In this arena, there are a number of reasonably (non exorbitantly) priced candidates: Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, Eufonika (a few models), Feliks Echo, Feliks Elise, Woo WA2, Woo WA3 just to start. [Note: Valhalla 2 does not qualify here since it is a _low output impedance _OTL tube h/p/a.] This is where you should be looking _if you want to maximise the musicality of what you hear from your system.
> •  _Matching a amplifier to a headphone is far more likely to bring musical satisfaction than matching a headphone to an amplifier.


Is it because of the impedance mismatching where it dampens the driver ?


----------



## wazzupi

NickT23 said:


> Why is it so ?


High watts and high current are usually meant for planar headphones I don't know the science enough to just throw up a few paragraphs on why but It's been a common rule, now Planar headphones can be very efficient too and not require more than 1 watt of power it really depends on the headphone and how the planar was implemented Ex: susvara he-6 inefficient planar's require high current lots of wattage. Final Audio D8000's doesn't need more than 1-2 watts high current, so most SS will do.


----------



## NickT23

wazzupi said:


> High watts and high current are usually meant for planar headphones I don't know the science enough to just throw up a few paragraphs on why but It's been a common rule, now Planar headphones can be very efficient too and not require more than 1 watt of power it really depends on the headphone and how the planar was implemented Ex: susvara he-6 inefficient planar's require high current lots of wattage. Final Audio D8000's doesn't need more than 1-2 watts high current, so most SS will do.


Yes true. And how would you say so for dynamic driver ?


----------



## jonathan c

NickT23 said:


> Is it because of the impedance mismatching where it dampens the driver ?


A low amplifier output impedance raises the ‘damping factor’ (headphone impedance divided by amplifier impedance), increases the amplifier ‘control’ of a headphone speaker / driver, and for high impedance headphones, prevents the sound from _blossoming._


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> A low amplifier output impedance raises the ‘damping factor’ (headphone impedance divided by amplifier impedance), increases the amplifier ‘control’ of a headphone speaker / driver, and for high impedance headphones, prevents the sound from _blossoming._


Means yes then....


----------



## MacMan31

All the flux amps seem to look the same (except the really expensive ones). At least outwardly except the face can be ordered with different colour options. What makes them different from each other aside from one of them being "truly balanced" according to their website?


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> All the flux amps seem to look the same (except the really expensive ones). At least outwardly except the face can be ordered with different colour options. What makes them different from each other aside from one of them being "truly balanced" according to their website?


Fa-12 and volot are the only balanced amps. Fa-10 has a crap ton of power. Fa-22 is a re-tuned fa-10. Fa-12s is singled ended and has half the power of the fa-12.


----------



## MacMan31

RenEh said:


> Fa-12 and volot are the only balanced amps. Fa-10 has a crap ton of power. Fa-22 is a re-tuned fa-10. Fa-12s is singled ended and has half the power of the fa-12.



So would any of the Flux amps be a good match for headphones like the ZMFs or Sennheiser 6 series?


----------



## Majors

Did you go to the website and check out the different typology of these amps. Mosfet, Bi-polar, J-fet you can do some research. I recommend the FA-22 with your headphones for the mosfet beauty.


----------



## NickT23

MacMan31 said:


> All the flux amps seem to look the same (except the really expensive ones). At least outwardly except the face can be ordered with different colour options. What makes them different from each other aside from one of them being "truly balanced" according to their website?


I think nothing. I guess difference would be the sound signature. Others may have a better answer for that.


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> So would any of the Flux amps be a good match for headphones like the ZMFs or Sennheiser 6 series?


From everything I’ve read you should go high end tubes for those. Efficient planar is my choice so I bought the fa-12.


----------



## MacMan31

RenEh said:


> From everything I’ve read you should go high end tubes for those. Efficient planar is my choice so I bought the fa-12.



That's why I'm looking into a BHC with speedball (though I have no idea what "speedball" is).


----------



## MacMan31

Majors said:


> Did you go to the website and check out the different typology of these amps. Mosfet, Bi-polar, J-fet you can do some research. I recommend the FA-22 with your headphones for the mosfet beauty.



Well I looked at the various amps on their website. But I would have to look more into what each type of amp is.


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> Well I looked at the various amps on their website. But I would have to look more into what each type of amp is.


What type of sound are you looking for? More detail? Layering of instruments? Sound stage? Micro-details? More emotion? I think that should dictate what kind of amp you buy.


----------



## MacMan31

RenEh said:


> What type of sound are you looking for? More detail? Layering of instruments? Sound stage? Micro-details? More emotion? I think that should dictate what kind of amp you buy.



Well I'm not really good at describing all those things. But I can't know what an amp sounds like unless I hear it or get an idea through reviews.


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> Well I'm not really good at describing all those things. But I can't know what an amp sounds like unless I hear it or get an idea through reviews.


Than imo find a local shop where you can audition what high end solid state/tube sounds like so atleast you have an idea of what you’ll be spending all this money on for.

What I think sounds good might be really different from what you think sounds good.


----------



## RenEh (May 28, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> Well I'm not really good at describing all those things. But I can't know what an amp sounds like unless I hear it or get an idea through reviews.


If this helps, my fa-12 was a warm mid forward presentation. I find that this paired with an ares 2 dac can make the vocals too forward on a 6xx and somewhat sibilant. On my Ananda which some say can come off as a bit thin on the mids it’s a perfect pairing. It also works great on my lcd2f.

My understanding is that the fa-22 was supposed to have the power of a fa-10 with more similar tuning to the fa-12 so I’m not sure it would work well with your 6xx and already warm Bifrost 2.

Imo as you get to more expensive gear synergy and taste become much more important than anything else. For example, I’d take my Ananda over a hd800s, focal clear or even he-1k.


----------



## MacMan31

Well for now I think I'm going to sell my FA-10 and put that money towards a BottleHead Crack. Although you saying the Bifrost 2 is a "warm" DAC has me wondering if it would be a bad pairing with the BHC.


----------



## RenEh (May 29, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> Well for now I think I'm going to sell my FA-10 and put that money towards a BottleHead Crack. Although you saying the Bifrost 2 is a "warm" DAC has me wondering if it would be a bad pairing with the BHC.


Take this with a cup of salt again as I haven’t heard a BHC, but I do intend to buy one.

The 6xx is lacking in bass extension so a lot people make up for that with more “slam” in the mid bass that the 6xx can provide. The Bifrost 2 is a good pairing with that since almost everything Schiit makes has a bass focus.

I’ve read that the bhc is a good pairing for the Bifrost 2 and HD600, but the 6xx is a bit bloated in the bass in that combo. I haven’t heard this gear together myself. This is news is from ears I do trust though. If you KISS mod your 6xx it should sound a lot like a 600 and hopefully being you to that audio bliss you’re looking for.

With all that said, I would be looking for an amp that can complement your much more expensive ZMF headphone and not your 6xx. You already have a Valhalla 2 which a more neutral but competent tube amp. Time to swing for the fences to see what your Aeolus can really do.


----------



## MacMan31

RenEh said:


> Take this with a cup of salt again as I haven’t heard a BHC, but I do intend to buy one.
> 
> The 6xx is lacking in bass extension so a lot people make up for that with more “slam” in the mid bass that the 6xx can provide. The Bifrost 2 is a good pairing with that since almost everything Schiit makes has a bass focus.
> 
> ...



Well my HD6XX have the Dekoni sheepskin perforated pads so the bass is plenty for me. Doesn't seem to affect the mids or highs in my experience. I am looking to get an HD600 though. But I don't know if the current revision is a good as the classic "marble finish" version. Well hopefully the Aeolus would pair well with the BHC I'm looking to get. But what other options would you suggest? Feliks Audio Echo I've heard is a good pairing.


----------



## RenEh

MacMan31 said:


> Well my HD6XX have the Dekoni sheepskin perforated pads so the bass is plenty for me. Doesn't seem to affect the mids or highs in my experience. I am looking to get an HD600 though. But I don't know if the current revision is a good as the classic "marble finish" version. Well hopefully the Aeolus would pair well with the BHC I'm looking to get. But what other options would you suggest? Feliks Audio Echo I've heard is a good pairing.


You should probably hang out in a ZMF thread for advise on the amp pairing. I know sbaf is pretty in love with ZMF so they could help you there too.


----------



## Bonddam

Paused Anchorman for little listen with FA-12 and 1266 TC and boy the sound quality is awesome for EDM. I've owned many solid state amps and tube amps to compare with and this one is good enough. If you buy 1266 TC well worth it.


----------



## BowWazoo

What's actually going on at the manufacturer's site?
All headphone amps out of stock?!


----------



## Infoseeker (Jun 14, 2022)

BowWazoo said:


> What's actually going on at the manufacturer's site?
> All headphone amps out of stock?!



An entire war.....silly. 😅

(they are a company in Ukraine)


----------



## BowWazoo

Damn.
Just read it on "about us"....

I hate Wladimir so much...


----------



## BowWazoo

Does anyone happen to still have an FA-10 lying around?😬


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## Infoseeker (Jul 9, 2022)

Bryston BHA-1 & FluxLab Fa-10 A/B'd. Both big boys. Using my Ibasso dap's balanced line-out to keep things simple (using a 4.4BAL to dual XLR cable) . HE6 being used.

Bryston BHA-1 has a kind of more burst-like emphasis to the tonality in the lower-mids. While the FluxLab Fa-10 has some kind of emphasis feeling to the upper-mids, that is less forgiving.

You feel relatively, there is honkiness and much more treble crispiness (especially in cymbals) from the FluxLab Fa-10, relative to the euphonic-lower mids burst feeling of the BHA-1. 
The honkiness to vocals is more on the FA-10 

Something 1kHz and up for FluxLab Fa-10. If you headphone has a higher-noted ringing problem, this amp won't forgive it. But your brain burn-in covers for it eventually cause it isn't exaggerating it extra either.

Something 300Hz-1000Hz for the Bryston BHA-1, has a less null-void background. And will give a kind of analog feeling. Lower parts of vocals & notes, seem to burst out like they are being suppressed and then intensely burst out (but not sharply)....it's kind of unique & uncanny. But I think I like it.

Interesting how they are different presentation tilts centered around things about 1kHz.


----------



## BowWazoo

I have the HE6SE V2, and basically work with the Harman target as a starting point, and then personalize the FR.
Therefore, such possible "phenomena" of an amplifier, are not significant.


----------



## NickT23

Hi what is the meaning of Organic ?


----------



## Infoseeker (Jun 14, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> Hi what is the meaning of Organic ?



For me, my subjective definition, there are completely unforgiving cold-nuetral sources. Where it presentd upper-mids/lower-treble notes that feel less tolerable/ give a sense of crunch to notes.

Then there are sources that rounded-out this trend feeling a step....tat I would describe as organic-nuetral.

Then after this there are "warm" sources that go all out trying to get a niche presentation on the mids and bass. Pushing things forward, or have less a dark background with some euphonic old-school analog feeling to it.

Cold nuetral---Organic nuetral----------------the Warmer/drier stuff


----------



## NickT23

Infoseeker said:


> For me, my subjective definition, there are completely unforgiving cold-nuetral sources. Where it presentd upper-mids/lower-treble notes that feel less give a sense of crunch to notes.
> 
> Then there are sources that rounded-out this trend feeling a step....tat I would describe as organic-nuetral.
> 
> ...


The only thing that make sense is cold, neutral, warm and dry. Then what is euphonic ?


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## Infoseeker (Jun 14, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> The only thing that make sense is cold, neutral, warm and dry. Then what is euphonic ?



Euphonic is generally a bad thing.

But it helps and depends alot on the context scenario "big-picture goal" & what people are saying in the actual sentence they are saying.

But there are people that do indeed like it. It helps them achieve the end-goal sound they had in their mind. Or just find it as a different experience to take a break with.

That said.....how would I describe the sound:

*Definition by "feelings":*
Something that doesn't feel clean as pertains to the digital age. Something that feels old. Or gives a sense of a live venue where there is no sense of silence.

*If I wanted to point out something specific:*
Something that diffuses the imaging and melds things together with an almost crossfeed-like end-result. Image-seperation that was so extremely far seperated in a stereo-sense that you get an uncanny valley feeling of how far away they are from each other....gets a feeling of being closer & working-together......or if written in a negative-way/or implemented badly...makes things hazy.

Less a studio recording with sharp popping clearly-defined instruments popping out around you, and more a live staging with you standing in-front of the action.



Wow, I just wrote alot of BS. haha


----------



## NickT23

Infoseeker said:


> Euphonic is generally a bad thing.
> 
> But it helps and depends alot on the context scenario "big-picture goal" & what people are saying in the actual sentence they are saying.
> 
> ...


Its ok. At least I somewhat I understand. Sometimes most terms are vague.


----------



## RenEh (Jun 14, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> An entire war.....silly. 😅
> 
> (they are a company in Ukraine)


How does your BHA-1 compare to your flux amp? 

Edit: silly me I missed your post.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jun 16, 2022)

iFi Gryphon xBass w/ my more nuetral FluxLab Fa-10 amp seems to be a good combo .

IEMatch off. xBass on. xSpace off. Presence-mode Off. Filter-Standard.
At lower volumes, the Presence-mode On helps.

Wierd combo, but it works.  o.O;
xBass gives the FA-10 the bass-slam its missing.

Still the DC2/BHA-1 is a more "organic" sounding combo though.

I am going to guess the iFi desktop iDSD would work out well with the FluxLab Fa-10. May even be a meta-combo.

Though, probably the older desktop iFi Pro iDSD ones & not the Signature. In case the Signature newer versions have more treble-presence/crispiness. FluxLab Fa-10 needs a darker source in terms last-octave treble synnergy/compensation.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jun 17, 2022)

Okay, I am going through a honeymoon phase. haha

The FluxLab Fa-10 w/ the iFi Gryphon is a seriously extremely synnergizing combo. It would be a shame not to try this if you can do it. Don't underestimate the combo due to the Gryphon being a portable device.

Wow.

You will need a 4.4mm to dual-XLR cable.


----------



## RenEh

I’m placing a big order on digikey to recap a vintage amp, and I figure I might as well consider capacitor upgrades for my flux fa-12 since warranty is probably gone anyways.

Does anyone know which caps I should be targeting?


----------



## amiga505

BowWazoo said:


> What's actually going on at the manufacturer's site?
> All headphone amps out of stock?!



shame - I was actually hoping they'd be up and running somehow, was about to email them. I have my eye on FA-12 for a while now as a potential upgrade couple years down the line, but thought that now might be a good time to throw some money from abroad into my country's economy.


----------



## dstarr3

I'm thinking I want to experiment with a new stack. My Singxer SA-1 has some characteristics that have become bothersome after the past year or so. Chiefly, the sound quality differs greatly between the balanced output and the SE output, such that honestly I just use my Liquid Spark for SE headphones rather than the Singxer. The balanced output sounds phenomenal, but it's always such a kick in the pants when I get a new headphone and have to balanced-mod it or order a balanced cable and wait to feel like I'm getting the most out of it all.

I have my eyes on the FA-10 Pro. I'll be picking up an HE6se soon, and I've got a few 300- and 600-ohm cans, so some brute force is required for a lot of my collection. But I also have a good smear of more sensitive headphones, as well. Little bit of everything across the whole sensitivity spectrum, really. And in terms of my tastes, if I had to choose between musicality and detail, I prefer musicality, but I would much rather have both.

So, some questions:

How do the two outputs on the FA-10 compare? Will I be favoring one output and avoiding the other again, or are they more or less equal?​
On the musicality-vs-detail spectrum, where does this amp land?​
I'll initially be using my Schiit Modius as a source, but I'm real keen to try an R2R DAC in the future, something like a Denafrips Ares II, for instance. Any thoughts on pairing this with either of those two DACs?​​Thanks!


----------



## RenEh (Jul 16, 2022)

dstarr3 said:


> I'm thinking I want to experiment with a new stack. My Singxer SA-1 has some characteristics that have become bothersome after the past year or so. Chiefly, the sound quality differs greatly between the balanced output and the SE output, such that honestly I just use my Liquid Spark for SE headphones rather than the Singxer. The balanced output sounds phenomenal, but it's always such a kick in the pants when I get a new headphone and have to balanced-mod it or order a balanced cable and wait to feel like I'm getting the most out of it all.
> 
> I have my eyes on the FA-10 Pro. I'll be picking up an HE6se soon, and I've got a few 300- and 600-ohm cans, so some brute force is required for a lot of my collection. But I also have a good smear of more sensitive headphones, as well. Little bit of everything across the whole sensitivity spectrum, really. And in terms of my tastes, if I had to choose between musicality and detail, I prefer musicality, but I would much rather have both.
> 
> ...


Ares 2 + Flux FA-12 pair really well together with a few caveats. Bass won't be as slamming as Schiit gear as that's the Schiit house sound. The HD6x0 series can come off as a bit upper mids focused with the Ares 2 + Flux sound.

The best thing about the flux + denafrips combo is the sounds is so effortless and transparent. I just smile whenever I listen to music with it together. Down side is some poorly mastered youtube videos can sound grating. Gaming is not the strong suit of the ares 2 if you use USB as it has a big audio delay. I use a optical out of my gaming machine or a pi2aes for music.


----------



## Majors

1 vote for FA-22 w/Ares2. Listening right now👍


----------



## jonathan c

Flux Lab FA-22 with Auteur OG / Atrium is the best that solid-state can get. 🥲


----------



## lightoflight

RenEh said:


> Ares 2 + Flux FA-12 pair really well together with a few caveats. Bass won't be as slamming as Schiit gear as that's the Schiit house sound. The HD6x0 series can come off as a bit upper mids focused with the Ares 2 + Flux sound.
> 
> The best thing about the flux + denafrips combo is the sounds is so effortless and transparent. I just smile whenever I listen to music with it together. Down side is some poorly mastered youtube videos can sound grating. Gaming is not the strong suit of the ares 2 if you use USB as it has a big audio delay. I use a optical out of my gaming machine or a pi2aes for music.



The FA-12 responds very well with pre-amps. Put in a Gustard P26 pre-amp upgraded with V6 Vivid, I think it might put a bigger smile on you.


----------



## NickT23

RenEh said:


> Ares 2 + Flux FA-12 pair really well together with a few caveats. Bass won't be as slamming as Schiit gear as that's the Schiit house sound. The HD6x0 series can come off as a bit upper mids focused with the Ares 2 + Flux sound.
> 
> The best thing about the flux + denafrips combo is the sounds is so effortless and transparent. I just smile whenever I listen to music with it together. Down side is some poorly mastered youtube videos can sound grating. Gaming is not the strong suit of the ares 2 if you use USB as it has a big audio delay. I use a optical out of my gaming machine or a pi2aes for music.


Hello, by youtube video, do you means music on youtube ?


----------



## Infoseeker (Jul 17, 2022)

dstarr3 said:


> I'm thinking I want to experiment with a new stack. My Singxer SA-1 has some characteristics that have become bothersome after the past year or so. Chiefly, the sound quality differs greatly between the balanced output and the SE output, such that honestly I just use my Liquid Spark for SE headphones rather than the Singxer. The balanced output sounds phenomenal, but it's always such a kick in the pants when I get a new headphone and have to balanced-mod it or order a balanced cable and wait to feel like I'm getting the most out of it all.
> 
> I have my eyes on the FA-10 Pro. I'll be picking up an HE6se soon, and I've got a few 300- and 600-ohm cans, so some brute force is required for a lot of my collection. But I also have a good smear of more sensitive headphones, as well. Little bit of everything across the whole sensitivity spectrum, really. And in terms of my tastes, if I had to choose between musicality and detail, I prefer musicality, but I would much rather have both.
> 
> ...



What are the characteristics you are not liking on the Singxer SA-1. Cause it would be sad, if the FluxLab Fa-10 gave similar characteristics.

The FluxLab Fa-10 amps are quite steely/air-crispy in an unforgiving sense. Similar to the Ragnarok2 topology amps they are kind of related to. And this isn't due to the HE6 being underpowered, it shows on my other headphones.

 It helps to not use the high-gain of the FluxLab Fa-10, medium-gain on my HE6 reduces the aspect of the playback, and increasing the output of my DAC in compensation (Using the full very hot output of my Dangerous Convert 2).

 The Fa-10 are very nice though power wise to give an HE6 enough power for a clean bass & headroom for EQing.

Pros:
The presentation is nice and uncompressed in terms of staging; more towards in width than depth.
Bass is clean.
Lots of power for EQing w/ pre-gains applied.

Cons:
Steely/Crispiness to air/last-octave notes (not lower treble metallic notes) on high-gain.
Vocals of the mids have some kind emphasis in terms of honk? shout? compared to my other amps. (could be a pro for some headphones, with the hifiman/Sennheiser dip? Works out on my he6 and hd800. Sounds off on my Focal Utopia.)


----------



## RenEh

NickT23 said:


> Hello, by youtube video, do you means music on youtube ?


No, more like news or how to videos.


----------



## RenEh

Infoseeker said:


> What are the characteristics you are not liking on the Singxer SA-1. Cause it would be sad, if the FluxLab Fa-10 gave similar characteristics.
> 
> The FluxLab Fa-10 amps are quite steely/air-crispy in an unforgiving sense. Similar to the Ragnarok2 topology amps they are kind of related to. And this isn't due to the HE6 being underpowered, it shows on my other headphones.
> 
> ...


Agree with the mid shout. It works great for my Ananda’s and lcd2f, but not the hd6x0.


----------



## RenEh

lightoflight said:


> The FA-12 responds very well with pre-amps. Put in a Gustard P26 pre-amp upgraded with V6 Vivid, I think it might put a bigger smile on you.


IMO the whole point of the fa-12 is it’s fully discrete design and resistor ladder volume control. If you aren’t happy with the sound just get a different amp.


----------



## lightoflight

RenEh said:


> IMO the whole point of the fa-12 is it’s fully discrete design and resistor ladder volume control. If you aren’t happy with the sound just get a different amp.



I have gotten another amp. I didn't realize how great this combo is until I got the Soloist GT. The stock Soloist GT is not much better sounding than the P26 and FA-12 combo.


----------



## Infoseeker

Wierd observation, the bass and treble is smoother out of my FluxLab Fa-10 amp from the Single-ended 6.3mm output jack.

The Single-ended jack has the same gain as the XLR jack. How is it that they sound so different?

The topology is single-ended inside. As for the inputs doesn't matter if I use the back XLR or the RCAs.

 The Single-ended 6.3mm jack has significantly less of a bad "shine" feeling to it. Way better to use the 6.3mm jack for my HE6.


----------



## RenEh

Infoseeker said:


> Wierd observation, the bass and treble is smoother out of my FluxLab Fa-10 amp from the Single-ended 6.3mm output jack.
> 
> The Single-ended jack has the same gain as the XLR jack. How is it that they sound so different?
> 
> ...


You might be experiencing cable differences. Some people don’t believe in this, so it’s up to you if you want to explore that.


----------



## sahmen

Infoseeker said:


> Wierd observation, the bass and treble is smoother out of my FluxLab Fa-10 amp from the Single-ended 6.3mm output jack.
> 
> The Single-ended jack has the same gain as the XLR jack. How is it that they sound so different?
> 
> ...


"Weird" indeed. When I had the FA-10 my experience was the direct opposite of yours. I hated using the SE output for anything because it sounded relatively inferior to me driving the Susvara or He6SEv2.  I do not want to speculate on what the reasons were, since they could have been located somewhere else in the chain for all I know, and impacting the FA-10 from outside (or inside it, maybe?).  I just rocked out on the 4-pin XLR output for the duration of my ownership until I resold it, and had a blast every minute of it


----------



## NickT23

Hi guys, anyone care to compare Burson Soloist 3XP with Flux FA 10 just for fun ? Especially with both dynamic and planars as well as easy and hard to drive cans.


----------



## Majors

Well I just heard back from Sandu @ SoundNews about the current status of FLA and here is the reply.
"Hello, sorry for my late reply, I just saw it. He and his entire family (including three kids) were supposed to live at my place for a while, but they decided moving to Germany, as his kids are still doing school and they already have basic knowledge of the German language. I've met Vitaly at Munich High End Show 2022,  we talked in advance that we would meet there. He is good, his family is safe, but Flux Labs sadly is no more..."
Glad to hear everyone is ok but I`m very sad to hear FLA will not continue making these amazing products. Best wishes to Vitaly and the team for their future endeavors.


----------



## SergF

Majors said:


> Well I just heard back from Sandu @ SoundNews about the current status of FLA and here is the reply.
> "Hello, sorry for my late reply, I just saw it. He and his entire family (including three kids) were supposed to live at my place for a while, but they decided moving to Germany, as his kids are still doing school and they already have basic knowledge of the German language. I've met Vitaly at Munich High End Show 2022,  we talked in advance that we would meet there. He is good, his family is safe, but Flux Labs sadly is no more..."
> Glad to hear everyone is ok but I`m very sad to hear FLA will not continue making these amazing products. Best wishes to Vitaly and the team for their future endeavors.


It is very unexpected to hear this, but I would like to clarify the information from the original source. My name is Sergei and I am the founder of Flux Lab. Our company, despite the difficult times, does not plan to close in any case. On the contrary, we hope to introduce a new line of devices in the near future. Of course, now it is very difficult to talk about the prospects, because our city is front-line. As for Vitaly, he is our best manager and we really hope that he will be able to join our team later. For all your questions, you can contact us via the official email. Thank you all very much for your support. We will definitely see you again!


----------



## Majors

Great to hear. 👍


----------



## wolfstar76

SergF said:


> It is very unexpected to hear this, but I would like to clarify the information from the original source. My name is Sergei and I am the founder of Flux Lab. Our company, despite the difficult times, does not plan to close in any case. On the contrary, we hope to introduce a new line of devices in the near future. Of course, now it is very difficult to talk about the prospects, because our city is front-line. As for Vitaly, he is our best manager and we really hope that he will be able to join our team later. For all your questions, you can contact us via the official email. Thank you all very much for your support. We will definitely see you again!


I have your FA-10 and like it, best of the luck for you and your team.


----------



## Ichos

Since it is public now, I would like to share that I have also met with Vitaliy at Munich High End show.
He and his family are well and Vitaliy is constantly thinking as how to start his business again.
I wish him all the best.


----------



## DarKu

Majors said:


> Well I just heard back from Sandu @ SoundNews about the current status of FLA and here is the reply.
> "Hello, sorry for my late reply, I just saw it. He and his entire family (including three kids) were supposed to live at my place for a while, but they decided moving to Germany, as his kids are still doing school and they already have basic knowledge of the German language. I've met Vitaly at Munich High End Show 2022,  we talked in advance that we would meet there. He is good, his family is safe, but Flux Labs sadly is no more..."
> Glad to hear everyone is ok but I`m very sad to hear FLA will not continue making these amazing products. Best wishes to Vitaly and the team for their future endeavors.


 I guess I wasn't very clear from the start and it somehow got messy. I didn't mean that Flux Labs is no more never to return back, I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I only meant that they are taking a pause until things will get back on track. Of course they will be back at some point, crafting and selling new products. Apologies for the confusion 


SergF said:


> It is very unexpected to hear this, but I would like to clarify the information from the original source. My name is Sergei and I am the founder of Flux Lab. Our company, despite the difficult times, does not plan to close in any case. On the contrary, we hope to introduce a new line of devices in the near future. Of course, now it is very difficult to talk about the prospects, because our city is front-line. As for Vitaly, he is our best manager and we really hope that he will be able to join our team later. For all your questions, you can contact us via the official email. Thank you all very much for your support. We will definitely see you again!



Sergei, I'm sorry for the confusion, it was a fast reply and people confused it. See my above reply. I'm looking forward to the day when FLA will be back in the business, so I can write and film about your wonderful units once again and I hope that will happen sooner rather than later.


----------



## SergF

DarKu said:


> Sergei, I'm sorry for the confusion, it was a fast reply and people confused it. See my above reply. I'm looking forward to the day when FLA will be back in the business, so I can write and film about your wonderful units once again and I hope that will happen sooner rather than later.


Sandu, everything is fine, there are no offenses! But to learn about such "news" for me was complete surrealism  Despite the fact that our city is being destroyed by the invader every day, in any case we do not lose heart and look to the future. See you!


----------



## ericohgb

Dear Sergei, I own the VOLOT and love it. Please do not give up! Ordered mine directly from Vitaly as soon as I watched Sandu's review on Soundnews. Arrived on December last year and although I already have/had great amps, the VOLOT has been my endgame amp. Best to you all.


----------



## NickT23

ericohgb said:


> Dear Sergei, I own the VOLOT and love it. Please do not give up! Ordered mine directly from Vitaly as soon as I watched Sandu's review on Soundnews. Arrived on December last year and although I already have/had great amps, the VOLOT has been my endgame amp. Best to you all.


Yea, but normal people cannot afford. Also, the amp is too big.


----------



## LeFaucon (Sep 1, 2022)

And…???
depends where your « normality«  is situated ?
since the beginning I started to read this thread you’re always pointing about prices and if people are rich enough or sold a kidney, insurance or car to afford it as well and you seem to have a big problem about that
though the range of these amps are not very or so high in the market even the Volot
you know Nick some people - in fact a large majority in the world I think and hope so - are working to earn money and quite enough to live and spend some in their leisure so do they and some people earn more and are rich and some earn less and are not : what’s the matter ?
but that said let’s rather talk and read about impressions of sound and capabilities and headphones pairings of these wonderful amps that is imho much much interesting
for I just received my FA-10 few days ago to match with my HE6SE, just discover it and not disappointed at all for the moment and thanks to all of you for this thread was very, very useful and helpful to me
cheers


----------



## Infoseeker

I found the FA-10 is fully representative of air-treble frequencies. That a lot of planars have an emphasis for. It takes manipulating the DAC with "fast" filters or applying a lowering post-10kHz EQ  compensate for when using most planars.


Or maybe just finding a DAC that is innately a step dark for the FA-10 when pairing for planars.


----------



## LeFaucon

For right now I just plugged my DAPs directly as sources as I wanted a compact set for my nightstand 
I will go further later with a DAC I am also checking for a best pairing and still read advices in this thread


----------



## LeFaucon

Here it is


----------



## wolfstar76

LeFaucon said:


> Here it is


From your picture it is not clear, may I ask what is the DAC you are using for this setup?


----------



## Infoseeker (Sep 1, 2022)

Looks like a Quloos desktop replacement dap. I always been curious of that.


----------



## LeFaucon

wolfstar76 said:


> From your picture it is not clear, may I ask what is the DAC you are using for this setup?


None : just said above, I’m using directly either my Shanling M8 or Questyle QPM as sources connected to the FA-10


Infoseeker said:


> Looks like a Quloos desktop replacement dap. I always been curious of that.


You are just right : a QLS QA390 but not connected to the FA-10


----------



## lightoflight (Sep 1, 2022)

Hi all, this is my volume knob friction hack for my aftermarket volume knob.

3/8 medium duty felt pad cut in half
Apply felt pad to faceplate behind the volume knob
Installing volume knob, apply pressure on the center of the knob to the felt pads
Tighten knob with allen key
Much better now for adjusting small volume increments.


----------



## LeFaucon

Thanks for sharing your experience


----------



## Infoseeker (Sep 1, 2022)

Isn't it a relay steps volume adjustment implementation? Are there small adjustments between the r-2r clicks? Or that only in the FA-10?


----------



## lightoflight (Sep 1, 2022)

Infoseeker said:


> Isn't it a relay steps volume adjustment implementation? Are there small adjustments between the r-2r clicks? Or that only in the FA-10?


Yes, the FA-12 have the relay volume control attenuator. The problem I had was the rotary resistance is extraordinarily low and I had a hard time adjusting the volume smoothly up or down 1 - 5 decibels at a certain point on the dial. With small adjustment between relays the volume quickly jumps up 10 dB and back down. This was happening to me on medium gain at 12 o'clock on the knob. I speculate that my human touch is twitchy, and the low rotary resistance knob translated that information. To alleviate that, the felt pads smoothed out the adjustment. It seems to be working and I haven't heard volume twitch so far.


----------



## OrenT

Hey people
Used FA 10 or FA 10 PRO for the same money: what would you go with to pair with Susvara?


----------



## LeFaucon

Hi there !
does someone kept some inside pictures of the FA-10 mod before / after please ?
very interested in it
thanks if any ?


----------



## Infoseeker

I dont know if you guys saw this at CanJam California 2022, but it seems the META stack for the Fluxlab FA-10 is to be chained with a Soekris dac2541. 

Ultimately the Fluxlab FA-10 amps are brighter amps, and this Soekris DAC gives just the right compensation for that brightness.


----------



## OrenT

Hi
Anyone benefit from upgrading the power cable with any amp? Or is the stock cable good enough?


----------



## The Hawk

lightoflight said:


> Yes, the FA-12 have the relay volume control attenuator. The problem I had was the rotary resistance is extraordinarily low and I had a hard time adjusting the volume smoothly up or down 1 - 5 decibels at a certain point on the dial. With small adjustment between relays the volume quickly jumps up 10 dB and back down. This was happening to me on medium gain at 12 o'clock on the knob. I speculate that my human touch is twitchy, and the low rotary resistance knob translated that information. To alleviate that, the felt pads smoothed out the adjustment. It seems to be working and I haven't heard volume twitch so far.


Keep in mind that part of the issue is how the volume control is implemented on Flux amps

In short the volume gain is not linear. Up to 12 o’clock it ramps up slowly in small increments and then ramps up more quickly as you go past 12


----------



## lightoflight (Sep 22, 2022)

The Hawk said:


> Keep in mind that part of the issue is how the volume control is implemented on Flux amps
> 
> In short the volume gain is not linear. Up to 12 o’clock it ramps up slowly in small increments and then ramps up more quickly as you go past 12


Hi, thanks for your feedback.

I don't have an issue with the slow and quick volume ramp up. My issue was the very loose resistance with the volume knob. My mod fixed my dilemma, and the unit no longer suffers from quick jumps in volume when doing small incremental changes.


----------



## Taksun557

Hello, I've been wondering if all Flux amps do this crackling noise when turning them off or is it just my unit (FA-12s)? It does a nice single click when turning it on, but that turning off crackle makes me curious.


----------



## LeFaucon

Yes it seems ?


----------



## lightoflight

Taksun557 said:


> Hello, I've been wondering if all Flux amps do this crackling noise when turning them off or is it just my unit (FA-12s)? It does a nice single click when turning it on, but that turning off crackle makes me curious.


From memory, I think mine does that too. I don’t think it’s a crackle sound, but it’s a different sound than turning it on sound.


----------



## peterq

Did anyone compare fa-12 to amb b22? I found the power mosfet are same in these two models.


----------



## erik701




----------



## wolfstar76

erik701 said:


>


FA-10?


----------



## erik701

wolfstar76 said:


> FA-10?


FA-10 Pro, which is currently up for sale here on Head-Fi. Sadly I don't have space for such a big amp on my desk since I moved to new place  
Maybe Flux Lab Acoustics will produce similarly powerful amp, but packed in the box with smaller footprint.


----------



## Lvivske

I like that it matches the mushroom


----------



## Stromen

Just got an email that Flux Labs has restarted production. Which is just amazing.


----------



## realmassy

That's great news, thanks for sharing! I am looking to upgrade my FA-12, for no reason to be honest...I'm very happy with it, but I want to treat myself wit a new amp or DAC. And now the Volot might become an option again


----------



## Ichos

Stromen said:


> Just got an email that Flux Labs has restarted production. Which is just amazing.


This is the best news i have read for a while now.


----------



## carlosgab

You may have discussed about this somewhere in this thread but any advice on what Flux amp model would pair well with HEK, Utopia, HE6 OG? I have seen FA10 and HE6 pairing however its the HEK V2 and the Utopia that I use more often and I'm concerned about balance with these neutral bright-ish HPs. I'm looking at either FA12 or FA22. My DAC is Gustard X26 Pro.


----------



## realmassy

And while we're discussing how the Fluxlab amps pair with specific headphones...anyone using a Fa10/12 with ZMF?


----------



## amiga505

I'm still getting an 'Out of Stock' notice on Flux website though, at least for FA10 and FA12


----------



## Stromen

You know in what country Flux Labs is located? And in what city? Hint: it's not the most pleasant area of the world since February 24, 2022...

Just send them a mail with what you want, and give them your support. They need it. And deserve it.


----------



## Infoseeker

carlosgab said:


> You may have discussed about this somewhere in this thread but any advice on what Flux amp model would pair well with HEK, Utopia, HE6 OG? I have seen FA10 and HE6 pairing however its the HEK V2 and the Utopia that I use more often and I'm concerned about balance with these neutral bright-ish HPs. I'm looking at either FA12 or FA22. My DAC is Gustard X26 Pro.



I highly suggest a darker r-2r kind of DAC like a Soekris dac2541 for FluxLab amps. If you go for an FA-10 amp; they are inherently bright amps that need the synnergy.

A Gustard x26 Pro would be nice with a Bryston BHA-1 amp or so.


----------



## tjpdenver (Oct 17, 2022)

I run the FA-10 from the X26 fed by a Gaia ddc.  I absolutely love the chain; I love the musicality, the detail, the "space"in the music.  The sound is just so intoxicating to me.  I would not describe it as bright at all.  To my ears it is very neutral.  It beautifully drives everything I listen to regardless of impedence or sensitivity: HE6seV2, Aeolus, Heddphone, Clear, LCD-X, Beyer T1. I have no desire to get any other SS amp or DAC - may add a different tube amp.


----------



## amiga505

Infoseeker said:


> I highly suggest a darker r-2r kind of DAC like a Soekris dac2541 for FluxLab amps. If you go for an FA-10 amp; they are inherently bright amps that need the synnergy.
> 
> A Gustard x26 Pro would be nice with a Bryston BHA-1 amp or so.


what about FA-12, is it bright? I'd like to drive the Verums, they seem to convey the amp character: they were way too bright for me off Liquid Spark, quite nice driven by LCX and Singxer SA-1, both of which are warmish to my ears.


----------



## Asttelan (Oct 22, 2022)

Hello


I have a labs fcn10 paired with an empyrean meze at the moment. I added a chordette to it and I find the combination suitable... I read that the empyrean worked well with the trafomatic1 head. I found one and I will be able to compare the two. In any case, the FCN10 is an efficient machine!


----------



## Stromen

Just took delivery of my FA-22 amp. Yes, from Charkiv, Ukraine.

Again, just amazed by the spirit and willpower of the Flux Labs team. Ukraine is under constant attack from the Russians, but still manage to manufacture products and support their customers. If you're looking for a (new) amp, please consider supporting Flux Labs and Ukraine in general.


----------



## Lvivske

is there a quick explainer on the sound differences between the 10, 12, and 22? Its so hard to remember which is which since they all look and are priced the same


----------



## jonathan c

[Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22]


----------



## Slim1970

jonathan c said:


> [Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22]


How are you liking the sound of the FA-22?


----------



## jonathan c

Slim1970 said:


> How are you liking the sound of the FA-22?


I have owned this for almost two years. It is my favourite solid-state h/p/a because I do not think ‘solid-state’ when it is in use. The sound is clear, dimensional, dynamic, extended….just like music!


----------



## Slim1970

jonathan c said:


> I have owned this for almost two years. It is my favourite solid-state h/p/a because I do not think ‘solid-state’ when it is in use. The sound is clear, dimensional, dynamic, extended….just like music!


I owned a modded FA-10 for a stint. The FA-22 sort of interest me because of the combination of sounds. I think I would like it’s tonality.


----------



## realmassy

jonathan c said:


> [Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22]


Ahh… we (well, me at least!) want to know more about the pairing with the ZMF headphones that I see in your signature and how the Fluxlab compares to the other tube amps…HP-8 in particular!


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 29, 2022)

.


----------



## Infoseeker

amiga505 said:


> what about FA-12, is it bright? I'd like to drive the Verums, they seem to convey the amp character: they were way too bright for me off Liquid Spark, quite nice driven by LCX and Singxer SA-1, both of which are warmish to my ears.



Oh, sorry about that. I meant about the FA-10 and Volot.


----------



## jonathan c

•  To @realmassy ’s post (#2,394): early in, the Flux Lab FA-22 is proving to be a _delightful _match to ZMF Atrium. All the attributes of Atrium, well covered in the Atrium thread, are plainly evident; the frequency response evenness and extension of FA-22 are also plainly evident.
•  Better yet, the detailing, layering, tiering of soundstage by Atrium is catalysed by FA-22’s remarkable ability in this regard: rare for a solid-state headphone amplifier. This attribute plus the absence of solid-state ‘nasties’ (chill, etch, glare, whitish sound) have made FA-22 my favourite SS headphone amplifier.


----------



## Majors

I absolutely love my FA-22 with my HD800s. I was lucky enough to have received one of the first units delivered Jul 15 2021 for the astounding introductory price of 499.00 plus remote and shipping. Legendary deal. I have no need for tubes anymore.


----------



## realmassy

jonathan c said:


> ...have made FA-22 my favourite SS headphone amplifier


that's a great compliment to the FA-22, thanks again for your impressions


----------



## DeweyCH

My FA-10 arrived! More than anything else I'm glad to see the folks at Flux are back up and running and safe, but in early running it's a great amp. Massive. I'm pretty sure I could fit my Burson Timekeeper 3ir inside the case of it with room to spare.


----------



## mikecheck95

How often do they restock the FC-10? Also, amazing to see they’re still in production with everything going on over there


----------



## amiga505

amiga505 said:


> what about FA-12, is it bright? I'd like to drive the Verums, they seem to convey the amp character: they were way too bright for me off Liquid Spark, quite nice driven by LCX and Singxer SA-1, both of which are warmish to my ears.


could anyone comment please?


----------



## JerseyD

Lvivske said:


> is there a quick explainer on the sound differences between the 10, 12, and 22? Its so hard to remember which is which since they all look and are priced the same


I have not heard any of these amps yet, but am interested.  Reading back through this thread I found this from a year ago (forgot to note who said it):

"In my personal opinion, with the FA-12 (and 12s) and now FA-22 out....you'd go for the FA-10 if your headphone stable had a lot of harder-to-drive candidates in it. Between the FA-12 and FA-22, the 12 leans warmer/slightly thicker in tone/heavier in bass/more relaxed in execution. The FA-22 is 'brighter' than the FA-12, but still neutral-hint o' warm as overall tone profile. It's a bit faster, more mid-focused, slightly up'd microdynamics. FA-10 sits kind of between them to me.
Great amps for the money. "House tone" not radically different in the models....my two cents only, again if you've got power-hog cans go FA-10.  If not...FA-22 if you want more mid-forward/speed/micro....FA-12 if you like it a bit thicker/bass-heavy/warmer."

If anyone who has heard all three can comment, that would be great.


----------



## Lvivske

diggin the new logo


----------



## 13candles

DeweyCH said:


> My FA-10 arrived! More than anything else I'm glad to see the folks at Flux are back up and running and safe, but in early running it's a great amp. Massive. I'm pretty sure I could fit my Burson Timekeeper 3ir inside the case of it with room to spare.


Cool beans!!! 

And how's the FA-10 driving your Susvara?? Im keen on getting the latter and have been reading up on the various amps that can drive the Sus adequately and Flux Labs caught my eye.
Would be great if you could kindly provide any impressions !

Till then, Enjoy your new toy!


----------



## Lvivske

Flux just posted these bad boys in production

Not sure what it's for, looks like a board for the FA series but they have used Nippon Chemicon caps, not Mundorfs (which are generally seen as higher end)


----------



## MeetYourMaker

Sorry to disrupt your ongoing conversation. I gotta ask, have you succeeded in order any new FA unit? I've been trying to buy a FA-10 for a week, it is out of stock from the manufacture website, I found nothing in used market neither. Thank you.


----------



## Majors

I would try leaving a message on Facebook, they're pretty quick to respond that way.


----------



## houdini06

Hey guys any body experienced with xlr I'm getting distortion, with Rca connection  none at all, I'm using Gustard R26, had tried other Amps and its working through xlr. Im using the FA-10


----------



## Rasuti

houdini06 said:


> Hey guys any body experienced with xlr I'm getting distortion, with Rca connection  none at all, I'm using Gustard R26, had tried other Amps and its working through xlr. Im using the FA-10


Using FA-10 Pro, no distortion via xlr here


----------



## RenEh

houdini06 said:


> Hey guys any body experienced with xlr I'm getting distortion, with Rca connection  none at all, I'm using Gustard R26, had tried other Amps and its working through xlr. Im using the FA-10


No distorting with XLR here, FA-12 with Ares2, BUT I did have an issues when I first bought my amp. 

The way the volume knob is mounted to the chassis is a bit odd, and by the looks of it, over-tightening the screws that mount it can damage the knob by bending a few things. I would check that first.


----------



## houdini06 (Dec 11, 2022)

Thanks guys is just xlr  The problem, I will send a message to flux , I have no idea I had a90d no problems. the xlr output on  Gustard r26 is 5.0 vol and 2.5 rca.

I also tried the dac of the EF400 Hifiman.


----------



## houdini06

Rasuti said:


> Using FA-10 Pro, no distortion via xlr here


what type of dac ?


----------



## Infoseeker (Dec 11, 2022)

houdini06 said:


> Hey guys any body experienced with xlr I'm getting distortion, with Rca connection  none at all, I'm using Gustard R26, had tried other Amps and its working through xlr. Im using the FA-10


My FluxLab FA-10 can take the full hot signal of my Dangerous Convert 2. So it should be able to do it.
It can so take the hot signal of my Gustard A22 dac.

If you are experiencing such things, you should be using the lowest gains usually on amps. The hot signal will take you to the loud volume  regardless of the gain used. So just use low gain.


----------



## houdini06

Infoseeker said:


> My FluxLab FA-10 can take the full hot signal of my Dangerous Convert 2. So it should be able to do it.
> It can so take the hit signal of my Gustard A22 dac.
> 
> If you are experiencing such things, you should be using the lowest gains usually on amps. The hot signal will take you to the loud volume  regardless of the gain used. So just use low gain.


regardless of the gain im getting  static only xlr. I've reached to flux, so bummed I just received the amp a few days ago.


----------



## Infoseeker

houdini06 said:


> regardless of the gain im getting  static only xlr. I've reached to flux, so bummed I just received the amp a few days ago.


Ouch, good luck


----------



## Rasuti

houdini06 said:


> what type of dac ?


Musician Aquarius


----------



## kazaakas (Dec 12, 2022)

Just received my FA-10 a few weeks back. Ordered it early February. Amazing that Flux is already resuming production. Wishing them nothing but the best.

Also, just how good does this black unit fit with the RME ADI-2?





The ADI-2 even perfectly fits on top of the amp without blocking the heat exhaust:




I'm pretty sure this is endgame for me, folks. I think for me personally, due to the diminishing returns beyond this price:quality point, I won't be wanting to upgrade this anymore, at least not for a decade or so. I reckon that with the infinite adjustability of the ADI-2's sound signature due to its parametric EQ, and the FA-10's combination of clarity and sheer power, this setup can make just about any headphone sound great.

One issue I do have with it, is that very rarely I can hear the relais start clicking constantly, just as what normally happens while turning the volume knob, except it just keeps going, until you adjust the volume just a little, and then it goes away. If I put the volume back to where it was it also doesn't resume. It seems that specific music triggers this. Especially when the volume of a song switches from very quiet to nearly brickwalled rapidly. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## Infoseeker

kazaakas said:


> Just received my FA-10 a few weeks back. Ordered it early February. Amazing that Flux is already resuming production. Wishing them nothing but the best.
> 
> Also, just how good does this black unit fit with the RME ADI-2?
> 
> ...



I only experience this when I go from using the remote control, to using the knob instead. 
The knob is no longer in synch with the remote control. The device keeps clicking until it reaches the position the knob is at.


----------



## Majors

My understanding is it's possible to get just inbetween the next click or step and it will go back and forth making a clicking sound this was explained as normal it just needs a small nudge either direction. When using volume on the remote control if then you switch back to volume knob on unit the smallest movement in either direction will immediately change all the way back to whatever adjustment the volume knob has. Mine does not go into a continuous clicking mode with that. When using my Aries 2 DAC XLR into the unit the signal does get a little hot I do prefer the smoothness of the RCA. I hope this helps.


----------



## wolfstar76

Since there is only one DAC in my current desktop setting, which I am using that for my tube + ZMF Atrium, today I just use my Hiby RS2 small DAP in DAC mode to connect to FA-10 -> HE6SE V2 and it is amazingly good.


----------



## MusicBeforeGear

That RME / Flux combo looks great and actually seems a bit smaller than I thought it would be...should fit perfectly on my desk. Cannot wait for my newly ordered FA-12 to arrive.


----------



## wolfstar76

R2R indeed gives SS amps such as FA-10 a different perspsective. After I switched my DAC from OG Modi 3 to Modi Multibit 2, feeding FA-10 to HE6SE V2, it was a completely different story. You are jumping from several rows below the stage directly onto the center of the stage.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 4, 2023)

I feel like I found a great pairing for my FluxLab FA-10 amp.

The Chord Hugo2 portable dac/amp. And a Schiit Loki Mini+ for a bass boost when needed.

First of all, I don't feel like the Schiit Loki Mini+ acts as the weakest link of the chain at all. It seems void of any audible cons to me. Not masking anything. Bass boost is just fun, though I wish it had an option for a more subbass dominant boost. When you boost beyond +6db it starts boosting the midbass alongside the the subbass. I use +6db or a very small step more.

Chord Hugo2 subbass is textures and will slam. Hugo2 has a nice aspect of trailing notes to the treble. And lacks any etch to things in the presentation.

FluxLab FA-10 has a very minimal ring or etch to it. That compensates for the lack of it in the Hugo2 portable.

Together Chord Hugo2/FluxLab FA-10 does have a very minimal slight digital etch to things, but it is within reason. Worth it for a nice and romantic playback that is worth it. Mids are euphonic and holographic. Treble is analog like while using solid state gear. Subbass has texture.
The FluxLab FA-10, reigns in the uncanny imaging seperation of the Chord Hugo2 with its presentation. It mimics like diffused dynamics and imaging of monitor speakers. No extreme L/R uncanny imaging seperation. The stage off the FluxLab FA-10 is a little less deep compared to things directly off the Hugo2. End result of the combo, you get a staging is just as wide as it is deep in the end result.

End result is really a nice Goldilocks Zone of aspects for me. This is probably all very subjective to my likes. But I felt I wanted to post it. There amp still has aspects of solid state etch to it, just it is less from using the suitable DAC. 


But I am still curious of the FluxLab FA-10 amp and Soekris dac2541 r-2r CanJam LA combo.


----------



## MusicBeforeGear

houdini06 said:


> Thanks guys is just xlr  The problem, I will send a message to flux , I have no idea I had a90d no problems. the xlr output on  Gustard r26 is 5.0 vol and 2.5 rca.
> 
> I also tried the dac of the EF400 Hifiman.


Wow, really curious to hear if the FA-12 is a good match for the R26. Been comtemplating going in that direction myself but wondering if it will be too fuzzy and warm (with my Mere Empyreans).


----------



## The Hawk (Tuesday at 3:18 PM)

News from Flux Labs courtesy of their Facebook:

Dear friends!

For more than 10 months our country has been at war, but we are constantly feeling your support and we are thankful for your warm heartfelt wishes, for which we are very grateful. Inspired by the latest events and your full support, our team has been working all along and had something special in store for you.

Our first yearly announcement is dedicated to our close friends and fans. We are glad to show you for the very first time the FA-10 Limited which is a massively upgraded version of the regular FA-10 headphone amplifier, coming in limited numbers.

Although there are plenty of internal upgrades, these are the most important ones:

• Modernized printed circuit boards for the installation of MUNDORF MLYTIC AG power capacitors. This change leads to a clearer sound that’s quite a lot more dynamic
• All audio circuits are now using ELNA Silmic II electrolytic capacitors
• We upgraded the circuitry of the analog input and output stages, for a more linear tonal balance across the board
• The feedback circuit has been redesigned for a fuller-bodied sound, that’s more transparent than ever before
• Internal wiring uses the highest-quality and purest copper wire available today, more exactly the Neotech ultra-pure UPOCC wire, that had a massive positive effect on the entirety of the frequency response, getting a cleaner and weightier sound.

Each buyer of the Limited Edition will be receiving a memorable gift - a hand-crafted bracelet from the last steel batch made at the Azovstal plant in the beautiful city of Mariupol, which was completely destroyed by the invading troops. The bracelet is a symbol of unity and invincibility of the Ukrainian people.

You can be part of our history, helping us doing what we love to do the most by getting an FA-10 Limited Edition that can be ordered right now.

Edit:

Follow up from Flux Labs:

“In view of the incoming questions related to the differences between FA-10 Limited and FA-10, we publish a separate post with clarification.
It is important to understand that the FA-10 Limited is not just an amplifier with higher quality and more expensive capacitors installed. The Limited is a significantly redesigned and improved unit specifically in terms of circuitry. The higher quality capacitors and wiring are simply better at realizing the potential of all the circuit improvements. 

The circuitry of the amplifier is still equipped with the JFET input as in the regular model FA-10, but the circuit at the input of the amplifier was completely redesigned, which allowed getting a more even tonal balance and higher detail over the whole frequency range. The output stage was also changed, in this case, bipolar transistors designed specifically for high-end audio (NJW0281G and NJW0302G) are used.

But how can we generally describe the sound of FA-10 Limited and how we position this amplifier?
It's the most musical amplifier in the FA-10 lineup, and you can hear it from the very first notes. At the same time, it is the most detailed, transparent, and dynamic. The sound is the most harmonious and natural. To summarize, we want to note that FA-10 Limited plays on the field of High-End solutions. The number of produced amplifiers will be extremely limited due to the complexity of applying such solutions in devices of the average price category, but for the sake of fans of this model, we decided that we must release such a modification of the device!

The amplifier is as versatile as possible and is suitable for both undemanding models of headphones and the most complex loads, such as Susvara or Abyss.”

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa-10-limited-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## George Hincapie

The FA10 Limited does appeal to me. I am just wondering how capable it really is? I've never owned a Flux HPA, so have no idea what style of headphones it suits or how well it can grip and drive the more power hungry cans.

Can anyone shed some light? Currently have ZMF dynamics and HiFiMan planars (not Sus).


----------



## Ichos

I am glad to hear that Vitaliy is safe and back to business.
Wish all the best to him and Flux Labs.


----------



## The Hawk

George Hincapie said:


> The FA10 Limited does appeal to me. I am just wondering how capable it really is? I've never owned a Flux HPA, so have no idea what style of headphones it suits or how well it can grip and drive the more power hungry cans.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light? Currently have ZMF dynamics and HiFiMan planars (not Sus).


FA-10 can run pretty much any power hungry headphone pretty easily……it’s got TONS of power for that exact purpose


----------



## George Hincapie

The Hawk said:


> FA-10 can run pretty much any power hungry headphone pretty easily……it’s got TONS of power for that exact purpose


So why does Volot exist then?


----------



## Lvivske

George Hincapie said:


> So why does Volot exist then?



Why does anything exist?


----------



## elira

George Hincapie said:


> So why does Volot exist then?


Power is not the only metric.


----------



## George Hincapie

elira said:


> Power is not the only metric.





Lvivske said:


> Why does anything exist?



It's a valid question surely?

I am genuinely interested in this amp, it's not Troll Tuesday.


----------



## Lvivske (Sunday at 6:09 PM)

At $250 more than the FA-10 Pro, but with new internals but the same look as _all _the others, I'm more confused as ever over which model to eventually get.  Calling it an FA-10 only makes it more confusing


----------



## Lvivske

George Hincapie said:


> It's a valid question surely?
> 
> I am genuinely interested in this amp, it's not Troll Tuesday.



It's Sunday my dude.


----------



## 566888 (Sunday at 6:41 PM)

George Hincapie said:


> So why does Volot exist then?


Because there is always better than better.  But it's three times the price and three times the size. You don't need the VOLOT if you don't have a $7000 Hifiman Susvara. Fortunately, dozens of equally brilliant headphones are making the world happy for much cheaper.

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/flux-lab-acoustics-volot-review-a-giant-among-us/


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## Majors

George Hincapie said:


> So why does Volot exist then?


Look at it and you tell me.


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## 566888

Lvivske said:


> At $250 more than the FA-10 Pro, but with new internals but the same look as _all _the others, I'm more confused as ever over which model to eventually get.  Calling it an FA-10 only makes it more confusing


It would be nice to have a choice, but at the moment only the Limited and VOLOT Pre are in stock. According to the tests, the FA-10 Pro sounds much better than the FA-10. I think it's no coincidence that the Flux Lab Team has placed the Limited in the webshop right between the two.


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## George Hincapie

Majors said:


> Look at it and you tell me.


Logically, that tells me that FA10 either can't drive Susvara properly, or there is unnecessary slurp going on. Either way, it's frustrating as a potential customer. Now I have no idea whether FA10 will do what I want or not. 

Conflicting commentary is unhelpful.


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## Slim1970

George Hincapie said:


> Logically, that tells me that FA10 either can't drive Susvara properly, or there is unnecessary slurp going on. Either way, it's frustrating as a potential customer. Now I have no idea whether FA10 will do what I want or not.
> 
> Conflicting commentary is unhelpful.


The FA-10 has no problem driving the Susvara’s. When I had my Susvara’s, the FA-10 was the first dedicated headphone amp that I thought did an excellent job with them. The Volot is just a much better version of the FA-10 built to crazy standards. I’d consider the Volot to be an ultimate amp for the Susvara’s, but it’s not needed. The dual mono design of the Volot does improve the sonics over the FA-10 which is single ended.


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## Majors

George Hincapie said:


> Logically, that tells me that FA10 either can't drive Susvara properly, or there is unnecessary slurp going on. Either way, it's frustrating as a potential customer. Now I have no idea whether FA10 will do what I want or not.
> 
> Conflicting commentary is unhelpful.


Have you read any of the many reviews that are available to you? And all out assault on a premium headphone amplifier for 2500 is hardly slurping.


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## Infoseeker (Sunday at 8:43 PM)

George Hincapie said:


> So why does Volot exist then?



Technically Volot is internally balanced/differential. If your home power sucks and is noisy.....it solves your issue?

Also I think Volot isn't intended to be as colored sounding as the original FA-10 amp. Also FA-10 amp came out a long long while before VOLOT came into existence.


My biggest question about the VOLOT is why does it look like it is using big blue Motor-Starting caps that look liked they can be used in my home AC unit.


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## jonathan c

Infoseeker said:


> Technically Volot is internally balanced/differential. If your home power sucks and is noisy.....it solves your issue?
> 
> Also I think Volot isn't intended to be as colored sounding as the original FA-10 amp. Also FA-10 amp came out a long long while before VOLOT came into existence.
> 
> ...


Given what ‘Volot’ means, everything about the amp should be huge / larger than life!


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## Lvivske

Infoseeker said:


> My biggest question about the VOLOT is why does it look like it is using big blue Motor-Starting caps that look liked they can be used in my home AC unit.



look like nippon chemicons to me, I assume it's just bigger is better, look like something you'd normally see as filter caps in a full size power amp


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## Ichos

George Hincapie said:


> So why does Volot exist then?


Better sound quality.


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## 566888 (Tuesday at 3:57 PM)




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## The Hawk

A follow up from Flux Labs about the FA-10 Limited:

“Dear friends,

In view of the incoming questions related to the differences between FA-10 Limited and FA-10, we publish a separate post with clarification.
It is important to understand that the FA-10 Limited is not just an amplifier with higher quality and more expensive capacitors installed. The Limited is a significantly redesigned and improved unit specifically in terms of circuitry. The higher quality capacitors and wiring are simply better at realizing the potential of all the circuit improvements.  

The circuitry of the amplifier is still equipped with the JFET input as in the regular model FA-10, but the circuit at the input of the amplifier was completely redesigned, which allowed getting a more even tonal balance and higher detail over the whole frequency range. The output stage was also changed, in this case, bipolar transistors designed specifically for high-end audio (NJW0281G and NJW0302G) are used.

But how can we generally describe the sound of FA-10 Limited and how we position this amplifier?
It's the most musical amplifier in the FA-10 lineup, and you can hear it from the very first notes. At the same time, it is the most detailed, transparent, and dynamic. The sound is the most harmonious and natural. To summarize, we want to note that FA-10 Limited plays on the field of High-End solutions. The number of produced amplifiers will be extremely limited due to the complexity of applying such solutions in devices of the average price category, but for the sake of fans of this model, we decided that we must release such a modification of the device!

The amplifier is as versatile as possible and is suitable for both undemanding models of headphones and the most complex loads, such as Susvara or Abyss”


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## 566888 (Tuesday at 3:53 PM)

In my humble opinion, in 2023 nothing can belong to the high-end category with a THD of 0.008%. That's it. It was an interesting decision to use the FA-10 as a basis, but probably a 0.002% THD FA-10 PRO Limited would have been better.


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## Slim1970

DRuszaT said:


> In my humble opinion, in 2023 nothing can belong to the high-end category with a THD of 0.008%. That's it. It was an interesting decision to use the FA-10 as a basis, but probably a 0.002% THD FA-10 PRO Limited would have been better.


You do now how low 0.008% is. It’s not audible at all.


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## Ichos

DRuszaT said:


> In my humble opinion, in 2023 nothing can belong to the high-end category with a THD of 0.008%. That's it. It was an interesting decision to use the FA-10 as a basis, but probably a 0.002% THD FA-10 PRO Limited would have been better.


Seriously now?
Too much ASR forum reading...


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## Majors (Tuesday at 4:35 PM)

Slim1970 said:


> You do now how low 0.008% is. It’s not audible at all.


Judging an amp on 0.006 THD difference is nonsense.


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## wolfstar76

Human ears can hear the difference down to 1% of THD, some gifted may be able to hear less, but 0.008% of difference may disturb some bats


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## 566888 (Tuesday at 4:55 PM)

I am afraid that no other difference will be audible. Sure, all nonsense. Also that the 0.006% THD difference means four times the distortion. What I was talking about, by the way, is that 0.008% THD is not high-end, not about hearing bats. But feel free to explain it away... Never mind. The bottom line is that the Flux Lab Team is at work and the best headphone amplifiers in the world are back. That means more than anything.


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## artist777 (Tuesday at 4:58 PM)

DRuszaT said:


> I am afraid that no other difference will be audible. Sure, all nonsense. Also that the 0.006% THD difference means four times the distortion.


Just for your reference. Distortion of tube amplifier could be even more 1% and that unit will be at high-end league. In fact high-end that is philosophy of getting natural sounding but not only the digits after comma)


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## Majors (Tuesday at 5:39 PM)

DRuszaT said:


> I am afraid that no other difference will be audible. Sure, all nonsense. Also that the 0.006% THD difference means four times the distortion. What I was talking about, by the way, is that 0.008% THD is not high-end, not about hearing bats. But feel free to explain it away... Never mind. The bottom line is that the Flux Lab Team is at work and the best headphone amplifiers in the world are back. That means more than anything.


"I am afraid that no other difference will be Audible."


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## Ichos

Better keep the conversation more polite?


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## 566888

Majors said:


> "I am afraid that no other difference will be Audible."  ASR idiot.


You only qualify yourself, my friend.


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## Astral Abyss

I ordered a Limited yesterday.  And yes, I do already have a FA-10, which is why I want the Limited.  I know how good it's going to be.


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## paradoxper

Slim1970 said:


> You do now how low 0.008% is. It’s not audible at all.


No, it's more about how 0.0008% THD is meaningless.


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## Majors

You guys are right I apologize. ASR is a hot button of mine.


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## jonathan c

DRuszaT said:


> In my humble opinion, in 2023 nothing can belong to the high-end category with a THD of 0.008%. That's it. It was an interesting decision to use the FA-10 as a basis, but probably a 0.002% THD FA-10 PRO Limited would have been better.


???😳🤔🤣🤣🤣…


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## Slim1970

paradoxper said:


> No, it's more about how 0.0008% THD is meaningless.


Right, but I’m afraid he’s missing this point. Numbers mean very little in our hobby. Unfortunately, many rely on measurements instead of actually listening to the components and letting their ears be the final deciding factor.


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## paradoxper

Slim1970 said:


> Right, but I’m afraid he’s missing this point. Numbers mean very little in our hobby. Unfortunately, many rely on measurements instead of actually listening to the components and letting their ears be the final deciding factor.


He has no point. It's the misleading crusade of ASR. Every manufacturer is buzzword compliant within the threshold of vanishing low distortion.


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## Slim1970

paradoxper said:


> He has no point. It's the misleading crusade of ASR. Every manufacturer is buzzword compliant within the threshold of vanishing low distortion.


You make a very good point


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## Lvivske (Wednesday at 2:01 AM)

566888 said:


> 0.008% THD is not high-end,



What even is "high end" and why is THD its measuring stick? Is there a list of attributes something needs to meet, set by an Academy, that awards a holographic sticker of High-End authenticity?


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## Lvivske

Astral Abyss said:


> I ordered a Limited yesterday.  And yes, I do already have a FA-10, which is why I want the Limited.  I know how good it's going to be.



congrats, really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it

I'd like to get one this year but I have no timeline at the moment, so hope they are still available when I can pull the trigger


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## LuckyPantsu

Also pulled the trigger with Limited F10 today


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## jonathan c

566888 said:


> In my humble opinion, in 2023 nothing can belong to the high-end category with a THD of 0.008%. That's it. It was an interesting decision to use the FA-10 as a basis, but probably a 0.002% THD FA-10 PRO Limited would have been better.


…. an unsurprising view from one whose posting name is only numbers 😒 ….


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## George Hincapie

jonathan c said:


> …. an unsurprising view from one whose posting name is only numbers 😒 ….


Laser sharp as always...


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## The Hawk (Wednesday at 2:19 PM)

566888 said:


> What I was talking about, by the way, is that 0.008% THD is not high-end





566888 said:


> The bottom line is that the Flux Lab Team is at work and the best headphone amplifiers in the world are back. That means more than anything.


Weird contradiction that your opinion is the Flux FA-10 Limited is not worthy of being considered a high-end product due to a .008% THD but Flux are the best headphone amps in the world 🤔


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## JerseyD

FWIW, let's just say the Flux amps are not "high-end" because that term is all about _price_ and they are priced quite reasonably.  They are, however, "high-fidelity," which is all about _sound._


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## jonathan c

The Hawk said:


> Weird contradiction that your opinion is the Flux FA-10 Limited is not worthy of being considered a high-end product due to a .008% THD but Flux are the best headphone amps in the world 🤔


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## jonathan c

JerseyD said:


> FWIW, let's just say the Flux amps are not "high-end" because that term is all about _price_ and they are priced quite reasonably.  They are, however, "high-fidelity," which is all about _sound._


To me, a component is _high-end_ if the _intent _behind the component is to advance / expand the frontier of music reproduction - irrespective of price.


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## Lvivske

JerseyD said:


> FWIW, let's just say the Flux amps are not "high-end" because that term is all about _price_ and they are priced quite reasonably.  They are, however, "high-fidelity," which is all about _sound._



flux amps go to $2500-5000, if that's not high end I dont know want to know what price it actually takes


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## JerseyD

Lvivske said:


> flux amps go to $2500-5000, if that's not high end I dont know want to know what price it actually takes


Good point.  I was only thinking about the FA-10 FA-12 level.


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## DataTutashxia

I'd like to try FA-12 and support my compatriots. Let's see when they are able to resume production.


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