# NEW Schiit Lyr 2: Impressions



## sling5s

Just want to start a thread for the new Lyr 2.  Interested in impressions.


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## Gil Schwartzman

I'm interesting in hearing what people have to say about this as well, particularly with low ohm cans. I'm currently using my Lyr with RS2, D2000, and Q701. Not the best pairing, but I've also got an HE500 on the horizon. Also usinng mine as a pre-amp but I really don't like that headphones don't mute the pre-outs. The Lyr 2 seems to take care of basically every issue I have... but I am on the fence on if it will be worth it for the ~$200 or so it will probably cost between what the Lyr 2 fetches and what I can hopefully sell my Lyr for.


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## kizzard

My Lyr 1 was delivered literally 2 weeks ago. I'm a bit gutted about the timing!
  
 That said, the Lyr 1 is still incredible - so I'm not planning on upgrading.
  
 Main changes seem to be a gain switch and some reworking of the power systems for lower noise floor.


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## Asr

Someone needs to compare it to the Garage1217 Project Ember now that it has that gain switch, and settle once and for all which amp is better-sounding on the same tube.


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## jackfappleton

I ordered a Lyr 1 about a week ago from Amazon, not knowing that the Lyr 2 was just about to come out. Luckily, I got one of their Warehouse Deal ones, which was like open box but still functional, but it only played out of one ear so I sent it back. I'm going to get a Lyr 2 once the refund goes through, but I kind of wish that the Lyr 1 worked so I could compare.


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## 18inch

seems quite interesting! i hope they get a batch of black chassis by mistake for those new lyr 2 
  
 i actually enjoyed reading the FAQ section in the lyr2 page.. lol


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## antikryst

Where are the impressions? :-D


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## sling5s

I'm waiting too.


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## Severe

Mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow along with an uber bitfrost. I lack experience in describing audiophile sound, but will leave my impressions


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## antikryst

severe said:


> Mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow along with an uber bitfrost. I lack experience in describing audiophile sound, but will leave my impressions




What headphones do you have? And what amp DAC combo are you using now. Improvements from your old amp and DAC vs the bifrost lyr 2 would be a good start for impressions.  

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Severe

Coming from absolutely nothing, except for an astro mix amp. Source being computer, and phones being mad dogs. Soon to be alphas once I receive my upgrade notice 

Hence the lack of experience


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## elvergun

severe said:


> Coming from absolutely nothing, except for an astro mix amp. Source being computer, and phones being mad dogs. Soon to be alphas once I receive my upgrade notice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Lyr was a great amp for the Mad Dogs I used to own.  I think you will be happy with your rig.   Congratulations!!!


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## jackfappleton

My Lyr 2 just came in. I can't really give it a proper review because it's going to be a few more days before my HE-500s come in but I'm trying it out through my ATH-M50s and i'm using my FiiO e10 as a DAC, and so far it's insane. I have it on the low gain setting at 12 o'clock and it's about to make my ears bleed.


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## xero404

My schiit just came too. replacing the Asgard 2 for my Alpha Dogs.


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## TMRaven

What kind of things does the Lyr2 do better than the Asgard2?


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## yoyowiggle




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## xero404

Wanted to try out tubes and get a bit more power to the Alpha Dogs. Bass seems thumpier from the first 30 mins of listening. Soundstage is wider as well. First impressions though. Pot is located the same place as the Asgard 2 both in high gain.


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## mithrandir38

I will be comparing the Lyr 2 with NOS Sylvania/RCA 6922's against the Woo WA7 i currently own (with the upgraded EH 6c45's). all comparisons are on the Audeze LCD-2 w/fazor. The Woo is a more beautiful product for sure; a real piece of industrial design. I bought the lyr 2 after auditioning it at T.H.E. SHOW Newport. I was curious about the opportunities for tube rolling since the Woo only has a couple options. I initially was not blown away by the performance of the Lyr 2 with the stock canadian tubes (yes, they say "made in Canada"). The Woo clearly bested it in refinement and tone. The WA7 is also dead quiet at any volume (approx. 1 watt @ 32 ohms). The Lyr 2 puts out 6 watts @ 32 ohms, and is quiet until you put the volume knob at about 2:30-3:00 position, then you will notice some transformer hub. It should be noted that you will probably go deaf swiftly if listening at this volume, so the hum is not really an issue.
Installing the Sylvania/RCA tubes made a marked and instant difference. listening to Rush's Moving Pictures, the mids were "fleshier", with slightly better mids, and a slightly less bright treble. It's a difficult thing to put my finger on. The mids seem slightly fuller and more subtle, while the treble seems slightly subdued. Not dark, mind you, just a slightly sweeter presentation. In short, I'm enjoying the Lyr 2 so much, i'm considering selling the WA7, as I think I actually prefer the Lyr with some $60 NOS tubes over the WA7 with the current-run Electro Harmonix. I'm enjoying the Schiit out of it. Ha ha ha.


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## M-13

Tube rolling will make a big difference if the Lyr 2 is anything like the original Lyr. I'm very interested in impressions of the new Lyr 2 vs. OG Lyr.


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## Mark-sf

Just sold my Lyr to replace with the Lyr 2 which should arrive tomorrow.  I previously requested they add a gain switch and I am glad they did as even the lowest noise tubes had both a bit of hum and noise though it was only noticeable when music wasn't playing on my HD 700s.. I am also looking forward to the regulated heater/plate voltages as I noted their contribution to hum when I was checking the noise spectrum on my scope. I will post my first impressions. after I give it a few days.


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## Mark-sf

Got my amp this morning and have been breaking it in. They have modified the stick-on feet to be a smaller ball shape. Mine came with 6BZ7 tubes. While the manual says to align and push down gently, this was not happening with my sockets. Even firmly pressing them after assuring alignment they did not fully seat though they made sufficient contact to work. This is my first experience with 6BZ7s and these are from Canada.  I did try my Voskhod 6N23P Rockets 1978 Silver Shields that I was using in my Lyr and they seated fine.  Therefore, the pins must be a bit thicker in these Canadian tubes or at least the pair I got sent. 
  
 While its too early to report on the sonics, having the gain switch is a godsend if you have sensitive headphones like I have. The result is dead quiet performance. Obviously, I can use more of the volume control though that has not been an issue in the past. Where it had been at 9 o'clock it is now at 12 in the Low Gain position.
 One item that I did confirm was normal with Jason (he answered email on Sat eve!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), the Lyr 2 does run warmer than its predecessor. Therefore, make sure there is plenty of space above it. I changed shelf locations from where it had about 4" to 12" and got a 5 degC drop.
  
 Time for some more listening...


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## Wildcatsare1

mark-sf said:


> Got my amp this morning and have been breaking it in. They have modified the stick-on feet to be a smaller ball shape. Mine came with 6BZ7 tubes. While the manual says to align and push down gently, this was not happening with my sockets. Even firmly pressing them after assuring alignment they did not fully seat though they made sufficient contact to work. This is my first experience with 6BZ7s and these are from Canada.  I did try my Voskhod 6N23P Rockets 1978 Silver Shields that I was using in my Lyr and they seated fine.  Therefore, the pins must be a bit thicker in these Canadian tubes or at least the pair I got sent.
> 
> While its too early to report on the sonics, having the gain switch is a godsend if you have sensitive headphones like I have. The result is dead quiet performance. Obviously, I can use more of the volume control though that has not been an issue in the past. Where it had been at 9 o'clock it is now at 12 in the Low Gain position.
> One item that I did confirm was normal with Jason (he answered email on Sat eve! ), the Lyr 2 does run warmer than its predecessor. Therefore, make sure there is plenty of space above it. I changed shelf locations from where it had about 4" to 12" and got a 5 degC drop.
> ...




I have had my Lyr 2 for a week now and love it!!! I had a couple Amprex, Holland, Bugle Boys that tightened up the bass and opened up the soundstage a bit. In high gain I have been listening with my 650's, in low, to PSB M4U1's and SONY XBA-4's. The Lyr 2 is dead quiet with all four HP's. I want to put in a few more hours with a variety of music before I elaborate on sound, but my early impressions are very positive, with the HP's on hand.


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## tin427

wildcatsare1 said:


> I have had my Lyr 2 for a week now and love it!!! I had a couple Amprex, Holland, Bugle Boys that tightened up the bass and opened up the soundstage a bit. In high gain I have been listening with my 650's, in low, to PSB M4U1's and SONY XBA-4's. The Lyr 2 is dead quiet with all four HP's. I want to put in a few more hours with a variety of music before I elaborate on sound, but my early impressions are very positive, with the HP's on hand.


 
 how bout some sensitive iem?


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## Mark-sf

I just tried my Etymotic Research 6i's and Ultimate Ear TripleFi 10's and they work great. Once again no discernible background noise. Looks like it is truly an amp that will work with 99% of what's out there in the IEM and HP space. It's so quiet that I can easily hear when a track transitions from the faded silence at the end of a track and the silence between tracks at normal volume levels. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Wildcatsare1

tin427 said:


> how bout some sensitive iem?




My SONY XB4-A's are very sensitive IEM's, not great ones, but a very sensitive 1 ohm load. No hum, but can barely turn the volume up though.


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## BobG55

> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mmmmm…. after reading these impressions, my wallet has started whispering tempting spending thoughts towards purchasing some new Schiit … Lyr 2 to be precise.


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## Wildcatsare1

bobg55 said:


> Mmmmm…. after reading these impressions, my wallet has started whispering tempting spending thoughts towards purchasing some new Schiit … Lyr 2 to be precise.




Cannot speak to your 800's, dagnabit, but the Lyr 2 will blow you away on the 650's. Tell me more about the sound of your HP's?


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## BobG55

Wildcatstare1 : I don't mean to be ignorant or unfriendly but we'd have to do that on the HD800 thread, this being the Schiit Lyr 2 thread.  I'll just quickly share with you that these are my 2nd pair of HD800 and they are excellent & much better compared to the ones I had & sold quickly 4 yrs ago.  Sennheiser seem to have corrected the sibilance problem which afflicted their earlier models though I doubt they would ever admit this.  So to make the subject about the Lyr 2 : I'm curious to find out how they would sound with the new Lyr.  Another Headfier may provide us with that info. soon enough.  Let's hope & wait. (Maybe it'll be you Wilcatstare; after all you already have the Lyr 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


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## Wildcatsare1

Well, Old Grouch, I see where your moniker fits ...... I was asking about the two HP's in context with your Lyr, my apologies. If I wasn't clear.


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## BobG55

wildcatsare1 said:


> Well, Old Grouch, I see where your moniker fits ...... I was asking about the two HP's in context with your Lyr, my apologies. If I wasn't clear.


 
 If the moniker fits ….  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wildcatsare1 _I did _misunderstand what you meant so my sincerest apologies.  From what I remember the HD650 and Lyr had very good synergy.  I was using the Valhalla 6N1P tubes if my (old) memory serves me right & the HD650s literally bounced with PrAT.  The HD600 not as much but they had good synergy with the Asgard, especially with the remastered _mono _Beatles album CDs.  I remember hearing a split second of far removed/background talking on the Paperback Writer song which was pretty cool. That's the best I can describe them; I'm not very good at the technical/analytical side of sound description.


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## zach915m

Just got my LYR 2 in today after selling my LYR 1 and I'm super impressed so far.  I plugged in some amperior's along with the other headphones I own and it tackles them all with ease and has no hum or noise for me.  I find the presentation a little wider and deeper in soundstage and the improved powerstage/regulator surely puts out an even handed tonality with plenty of the original LYR's punch.
  
 I have been running it all day and it seems to run hotter than the original LYR as well.  Does anyone know the recommended burn in for the LYR 2?
  
 The Mullard 2492's work great in them as well.
  
 Congrats to Jason and crew in making the LYR 2 an amp that is suitable to just about any headphone and provides a beautiful, powerful extended sound.


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## Wildcatsare1

zach915m said:


> Just got my LYR 2 in today after selling my LYR 1 and I'm super impressed so far.  I plugged in some amperior's along with the other headphones I own and it tackles them all with ease and has no hum or noise for me.  I find the presentation a little wider and deeper in soundstage and the improved powerstage/regulator surely puts out an even handed tonality with plenty of the original LYR's punch.
> 
> I have been running it all day and it seems to run hotter than the original LYR as well.  Does anyone know the recommended burn in for the LYR 2?
> 
> ...




+1, what he said (with Amprex Bugle Boys, Holland, though the stock tubes were very good).


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## miwo76

Just got mine delivered yesterday.  I have previously owned a Little Dot MKIII so I'll compare the Lyr 2 unboxing with that.
  
 I've only unboxed mine this morning before heading to work - haven't even plugged it in yet.
  
 Impressions on unboxing:
  
 1.  The box is nicer and more compact than the Little Dot MKIII I got last year.  It's got the Schiit logo on it. Classy.
 2.  On opening, I can see the Lyr 2 is "suspended" by two thick pieces of blue transport foam.  This is similar to the Little Dot MKIII.
 3.  The tubes are in a smaller box inside the box and are cushioned inside cut out foam.  Once again, classy.  The Little Dot MKII shipped wiht the tubes already installed.
 4.  The power cord is 2 meters (6 feet). Same as the Little Dot MKIII.
 5.  Little black rubber feet are included.  I need to stick those on tonight.
 6.  It's heavier than I thought it would be.  About the same weight as the Little Dot MKIII which also surprised me with its weight.
  
 Can't wait to get home tonight to hook everything up and to give this amp a spin with my HD650s!


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## XVampireX

I'm not going to upgrade to Lyr 2 because I'm going for a full upgrade to Schiit Ragnarok, but it would be interesting if Schiit would make it an option to upgrade for some money people who have Lyr 1...


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## thomascrown

miwo76 said:


> Just got mine delivered yesterday.  I have previously owned a Little Dot MKIII so I'll compare the Lyr 2 unboxing with that.
> 
> I've only unboxed mine this morning before heading to work - haven't even plugged it in yet.
> 
> ...


 

 I'd like to read your comparison between the 2 amps, I've sold the mkIII right after 2 weeks, I never really liked the sound, while I've always been extremely happy with other schiit products (asgard 2 and vali)


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## sathyam

My Lyr 2 should be delivered tomorrow. I am using it for my office setup with AK240 and AD. The AK240 is good enough with AD. But it's missing some oomph (power). 

It will be interesting to see how the Lyr 2 works with the Ref1 IEM in low gain mode.


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## zach915m

> It will be interesting to see how the Lyr 2 works with the Ref1 IEM in low gain mode.


 
  
 It seemed to power my ASG-2's with little to no noise in low gain so I think it will do quite fine with IEM's, great balance of power and finesse!
  
 Been using the LYR for single ended use with the Audio GD NFB 28 as the DAC and it's been a great combination.  Very neutral with just a touch of warmth and magic.  The LYR 2 is less juicy sounding the the LYR 1 ( I am under 100 hours though) but the soundstage and texture + imaging are all a slight step up.  It takes on that character that some of Ray Samuels more powerful amps do with a very constant voltage level, more even handed.


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## Wildcatsare1

zach915m said:


> It seemed to power my ASG-2's with little to no noise in low gain so I think it will do quite fine with IEM's, great balance of power and finesse!
> 
> Been using the LYR for single ended use with the Audio GD NFB 28 as the DAC and it's been a great combination.  Very neutral with just a touch of warmth and magic.  The LYR 2 is less juicy sounding the the LYR 1 ( I am under 100 hours though) but the soundstage and texture + imaging are all a slight step up.  It takes on that character that some of Ray Samuels more powerful amps do with a very constant voltage level, more even handed.




Hopefully not a dumb question, my apologies if so, are you using the same tubes that you had in the Lyr 1? My Lyr 2 with the stock tubes also sounds less "juicy" than with Amprex "Bugle Boys", Holland (wonderful tubes).

On another note, with my PSB M4U1's and SONY XB5-A's (1 ohm) IEM's I am not having any noise issues at all, in low gain. Severe over-kill, but silent. With my 650's and the Lyr 2 in high gain, they rock. Cannot really compare to my Valhalla 1 because I had some gain issues with the Unit, waiting to hear from Nick as to what the problem is, also want to try the Lyr 2 with HE560's, AD's, or HD800's at the Nashville Meet.


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## zach915m

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hopefully not a dumb question, my apologies if so, are you using the same tubes that you had in the Lyr 1? My Lyr 2 with the stock tubes also sounds less "juicy" than with Amprex "Bugle Boys", Holland (wonderful tubes).


 
  
 No not dumb!
  
 Using the same Mullard 2492's that I had in the LYR 1.  I also find the stock tubes a bit brittle and lean.


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## Wildcatsare1

Thanks! While I was typing my last message I received 4 Voskhod Rockets from my Brother-in-Law, just dropped them into the Lyr, clean, clear, but the are a bit lighter and brighter than the Amprex, is this your experience? Need to listen to some more music tonight and see which I prefer. Back to work.


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## zach915m

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks! While I was typing my last message I received 4 Voskhod Rockets from my Brother-in-Law, just dropped them into the Lyr, clean, clear, but the are a bit lighter and brighter than the Amprex, is this your experience? Need to listen to some more music tonight and see which I prefer. Back to work.


 

 I actually haven't tried anything too much besides the Mullard's as I did some rolling when I first got my LYR 1 and then found the Mullard's and have been happy ever since.  I did try some other more inexpensive stuff but haven't had the urge to try much else.


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## Mark-sf

I am currently evaluating with my Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88's which I have used in my Lyr. They are more dimensional than the stock tubes giving the instruments a more "physical" manifestation. They are not quite as bright as the stock tubes; however, I have not run them long enough to see how they break in. I have also used my Voskhod 6N23P Rockets 1978 Silver Shields but haven't yet settled on the best match with my HD700's.


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## Wildcatsare1

mark-sf said:


> I am currently evaluating with my Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88's which I have used in my Lyr. They are more dimensional than the stock tubes giving the instruments a more "physical" manifestation. They are not quite as bright as the stock tubes; however, I have not run them long enough to see how they break in. I have also used my Voskhod 6N23P Rockets 1978 Silver Shields but haven't yet settled on the best match with my HD700's.




Just picked up some Voskhods for my Lyr 2, and am comparing them to Amprex Bugle boys, made in Holland. My initial impression is the Voskhods are brighter, a little hot, crystal clear, can understand every word exchanged between Rudy VanGelder and Lee on the "Warm-Up and Dialogue Between Lee & Rudy" on the Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers, Blue Note 4003 which is good, but maybe a bit too much of a good thing. The Amprexes just flow, with body and lush goodness. Not to turn this into a tube rollers thread, but am interested in your impressions?


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## miwo76

This amp runs hot!  Even the volume knob gets quite warm/hot to the touch...is this normal?


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## Wildcatsare1

miwo76 said:


> This amp runs hot!  Even the volume knob gets quite warm/hot to the touch...is this normal?




Yes, I was told it would run hotter than the Lyr 1 and Valhalla 1, it is definitely a little space heater, but man it sounds so good!


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## zach915m

miwo76 said:


> This amp runs hot!  Even the volume knob gets quite warm/hot to the touch...is this normal?


 

 Yes.  Mine gets sweltering hot too,hotter than the Original LYR.  I'm fairly sure it's normal and no damage will be caused.


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## Mark-sf

miwo76 said:


> This amp runs hot!  Even the volume knob gets quite warm/hot to the touch...is this normal?


 
 I noted that as well since I was a Lyr owner and sent a number of temp measurements to Jason including the side of the volume control. He confirmed my values were normal. This is a class A amp and even though it is hot it is only consuming 30W so its not bad.  Give it a foot of airspace above and it will be significantly cooler (5degC in my case.)


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## Mark-sf

wildcatsare1 said:


> Just picked up some Voskhods for my Lyr 2, and am comparing them to Amprex Bugle boys, made in Holland. My initial impression is the Voskhods are brighter, a little hot, crystal clear, can understand every word exchanged between Rudy VanGelder and Lee on the "Warm-Up and Dialogue Between Lee & Rudy" on the Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers, Blue Note 4003 which is good, but maybe a bit too much of a good thing. The Amprexes just flow, with body and lush goodness. Not to turn this into a tube rollers thread, but am interested in your impressions?


 
 I'll get back to my Voskhods' by the end of the week. Enjoying the Lorenzs' too much! It's nice not to have to choose tubes based upon their noise performance anymore. I've also got a set of Amperex's that were too noisy for my 105db sensitive HD700's.


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## miwo76

One thing to note is for tube rollers is that acceptable tube specifications have changed for the Lyr 2.  6N1P tubes cannot be rolled with the Lyr 2.
  
 There are some inconsistencies in the available documentation and I will highlight them here.  My understanding is that with the original Lyr (Lyr 1) 6N1P tubes could used.
  
 1.  On the Schiit website as of June 25th, 2014. The FAQ for the Lyr 2 states:
  
Lyr 2 uses two 6BZ7 dual triodes, and yes–you can substitute any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 type tube, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. Due to the DC heaters, we do not recommend using 6N1P tube types, or any tube that needs more than 415mA heater current.
  
 2.  The downloadable PDF from the Schiit website as of June 25th, 2014 on page 3 states that the 6N1P tube type can be used (rolled).
  
 http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/lyr_2_manual.pdf
  
 3.  The hard copy of the manual I received in my the Lyr 2 shipping box, on page 3, appears to have been manually crossed out with black ball point pen the "6N1P".
  
 I believe the FAQ on the website is correct that the 6N1P tube type cannot be used in the Lyr 2.   I'm guessing that the PDF was the proof sent to the printer and the error was noted after the manuals were printed, hence, the manual scratching out of the 6N1P tube type in the printed manual that was shipped with my amp.
  
 Just submitting this my personal observations and interpretation as an FYI to the Head-Fi community.


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## sferic

Lyr 2 came today, I am listening to it.
  
 The SN on my Lyr 1 is 196, so I've had it quite awhile. My "fancy" phones are LCD2 rev2 and Grado PS1000. I recently picked up the Beyer T1's which got me going thru all the ole headsets. The Grado's have never loved the Lyr but sounded really good with music on. The other night I was playing them and the humming & other noise (which varied with how close my hand was to the volume know - and yes everything's grounded fine) when music wasn't playing really bugged me so I checked out Schiit's site & saw the new Lyr 2 had a gain switch and a relay.
  
 It's been so long since I shopped for stuff I'd assumed the Lyr 2 had been out for awhile, didn't realize it was just released. (Shame on you Schiit marketing!)
  
 Gain switch: Happy to report not a whit of noise with the gain set lo for the Grados. The Beyers sound great on hi gain, and I'll try the LCD2's later.
  
 Relay: So this may or may not be the Lyr's fault... is I had a driver fail on both the LCD2's (which is actually how I got rev 2, Audeze replaced my whole set) AND the Grados in the same week. Later I had another driver fail on the Grado, this time out of warranty. Needless to say I got very meticulous about never powering up or down the Lyr with anything plugged into it after that. So, the relay was also a selling point on upgrading to the Lyr 2. That said, while I'm glad it has the relay I won't be breaking my habit of unplugging phones during power on/off despite the blurb on the site.
  
 So, does it sound a lot better? Sure!!! One of the first Lyr 2's compared to my early production Lyr 1's, it's a very worthwhile leap. I can quite objectively and with certainty say the noise floor is WAY lower, in fact non-existent by comparison. Subjectively it also seems better in all those other ways people go on about, but elaborating seems pointless.


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## Amictus

sferic said:


> So, does it sound a lot better? Sure!!! One of the first Lyr 2's compared to my early production Lyr 1's, it's a very worthwhile leap. I can quite objectively and with certainty say the noise floor is WAY lower, in fact non-existent by comparison. Subjectively it also seems better in all those other ways people go on about, but elaborating seems pointless.


 
 Elaborating does not seem pointless to me! Elaborate, already!


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## sferic

Well OK so now I'm listening with the LCD2's to Kraftwerk and some Man Parrish vintage electronica and it's just psychedelic! Little blips & blaps flying all over the room left & right & up & down and such!
  
 I have to say that the more I upgrade my sources the more I love the LCD2's more. The Grados are, of course, the Beats of the audiophile set, but give 'em credit they do sound insane fun on some material. And the Beyer T1s are great dynamics no question, and crazy comfortable. But the Audeze when properly driven are practically holographic. No grit nowhere no never, totally smooooove.
  
 Anyway, well elaborating on the sound: "bass is punchier but not wobbly, soundstage is wider, treble is airier but not grainy or overemphasized". I've heard people attribute these improvements to Monster Power Strips for heavens sake.
  
 It sounds better, that's all, OK


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## miwo76

So far, so good.  Definitely a step up from my Little Dot MKIII, especially with the low end on my HD650s.  The instrument seperation seems a little better with the Lyr 2 vs my Little Dot MKIII.  I've already sold the LD MKIII to upgrade to the Lyr 2 so take the comparison by memory with a grain of salt.

 My serial number for the Lyr 2 is #115.  I didn't realize how early in the production cycle I've bought mine.


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## zach915m

I have noticed a little bit of break in after running it for approx 50 hours.  A little smoother and less sharp in the treble and more coherent throughout.  I'd expect it to settle in completely around 100-200 hours.
  
 EDIT:  I'm using mine with the Audio GD NFB-28 as the DAC instead of the Bifrost and it's a VERY good combination.  The Sabre Dac cleaned up the original LYR nicely but now the combination strikes almost completely neutral, maybe just a touch on the side of warm, but if so just the right amount.  BiFrost obviously is a great combo.


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## Phonelaf

Hi guys,
just ordered a Lyr2 to work for my Alpha Dog and LCD-XC. 
Can't wait to have it here. 
Has anybody a recommendation for a tube upgrade that works with my headphones ?
Thx


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## Wildcatsare1

phonelaf said:


> Hi guys,
> just ordered a Lyr2 to work for my Alpha Dog and LCD-XC.
> Can't wait to have it here.
> Has anybody a recommendation for a tube upgrade that works with my headphones ?
> Thx




I have had a Lyr 2 for a couple of weeks and have tried 3 sets of tubes, the stock, Amprex Bugle Boy's, and Voskhod Rocket 6N23P's. The stock tubes are ok, a bit brittle on the highs, modest bass, the Amprex are beautiful, glorious, liquid, deep, powerful bass, good soundstage, and the Rockets are clear, clean, detailed, at first too much of a good thing. Though at about 20 hours, they opening up nicely, deep, authoritative bass, and picking a bit of the Amprex "gold".

Check out the Lyr Tube Rollers thread, you'll find lots of great advice and experience.


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## Phonelaf

Thank you.
 I will look there.


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## Tuco1965

phonelaf said:


> Thank you.
> I will look there.


 
  
 Your wallet is going to hate you.


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## Phonelaf

My wife will hate me more


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## Tuco1965

phonelaf said:


> My wife will hate me more


 
  
 Heh heh


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My apologies to your a Wife and wallet, on the positive side your Lyr 2 only uses two tubes at a time and not Audio Research Pre-Amp !


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm new in the DAC, separate headphone amp and high quality headphone arena. I started with the Modi/Magni stack for my computer and loved the sound. The Magni is my first dedicated headphone amp (I was wavering about buying it because I wasn't a serious headphone listener...but $99, ah why not).

I have wanted to a get a DAC for my 2 channel stereo system for a long time and decided to get the Bifrost to do the processing for my aging NAD C542 CD player. Wow what a leap in performance...I was Schiit-faced! Grabbed my Magni from my computer setup and brought it up to my 2 channel system with the Bifrost to hear how my Grado 80's & Shure 840's sound improved. Man they sounded noticeably better but still nowhere near as good as my 2 channel speaker system. Later I read a comment on the Schiit site that the biggest "bang for the buck" are the cans themselves...that got me thinking...and researching...and auditioning. I narrowed it down to the Sennheiser HD650 and the HiFiMan HE500...I went with the HE500's. I burned them in for 200 hrs through the Magni. WOW...so that's what all this headphone listening excitement is all about...YES!

Although I'm VERY happy with the Magni I can't help but wonder if the HE500's are being held back by it...should I take the final step and upgrade to a better amp? If so, which amp would be an excellent match with the HE500's? How much (if any) improvement will it be over the Magni...I mean will there be as much of an audible leap as what I got with the Bifrost and the HE500's? I was tempted by the Lyr and now even more so with the Lyr2 but I have no experience with any form of tube amplification and this whole tube rolling stuff...I don't know.

I would love to know your impressions. Thanks!


----------



## sathyam

The HE-500 will probably scale well with the ample juice that the Lyr or Lyr 2 can throw at it.

For me the big thing with the Lyr was the ability to change the character of amplification by tube rolling. As a beginner tube roller, I was a bit skeptical. Boy, was I wrong. On my Lyr 2, I switched to Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio. The transformation was stunning! Like night and day. Crystal clear music with all frequencies in balance. My setup included AK240 as source and Alpha Dogs as headphones. I tried all genres of music. Started with my favorite Pink Floyd and ended with Four Seasons, with a lot of Jazz, Alternative, New Age and Indian Classical in between.

The gist: Tubes used make a big difference to change the character if the music on the Lyr 2. You can start with the provided tubes, but get yourself a couple of different tubes to experiment. Warning: tubes can get expensive as you move up the ladder, so be warned.

I have a Siemens Cca and an Audiswan on the way too. So excited to go tube rolling


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sathyam said:


> The HE-500 will probably scale well with the ample juice that the Lyr or Lyr 2 can throw at it.
> 
> For me the big thing with the Lyr was the ability to change the character of amplification by tube rolling. As a beginner tube roller, I was a bit skeptical. Boy, was I wrong. On my Lyr 2, I switched to Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio. The transformation was stunning! Like night and day. Crystal clear music with all frequencies in balance. My setup included AK240 as source and Alpha Dogs as headphones. I tried all genres of music. Started with my favorite Pink Floyd and ended with Four Seasons, with a lot of Jazz, Alternative, New Age and Indian Classical in between.
> 
> ...




+1, tube rolling is very addicting and allows you to match tubes to your HP's sonic character. Bugle Boys match my IEM's, yes IEM's sound great with the Lyr 2 (Sony XBA-4's) and Voskhod 6N23P's with my HD650's, clarity, pace and awesome bass! Enjoy thee music!!!


----------



## sathyam

Yup. I used my FitEar TG334 on low gain. Black Background. Amazing that a powerful desktop amp can do that!


----------



## Tuneslover

Hey thanks for the feedback...lots to consider, especially going tubes. I'm also looking at the Lake People G109S which is a fully solid state German amp...it too has my interest.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I haven't heard the Lake People Unit but I have heard great things about its SQ, much like my Krell Speaker Amps. Enjoy the music!


----------



## Tuneslover

You can check out the Lake People amps at: Violectric-usa.com


----------



## Tuneslover

There is a review of the G109s on InnerFidelity.com "wall of fame"


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Listening to "Talking Timbuktu by Ali Farka Toure with Ry Cooder", Modi>Lyr 2 (Voskhod Shield 6N23P's), HD650's......Schiit this is freakn' beautiful, pace, rhythm, headstage, body, luscious midrange, bass foundation (acoustic), speed......If you like World Music, pick up this disc/download!!!!


----------



## joespride

wildcatsare1 said:


> Listening to "Talking Timbuktu by Ali Farka Toure with Ry Cooder", Modi>Lyr 2 (Voskhod Shield 6N23P's), HD650's......Schiit this is freakn' beautiful, pace, rhythm, headstage, body, luscious midrange, bass foundation (acoustic), speed......If you like World Music, pick up this disc/download!!!!


 
 I have had the disc for several years and i agree it is stellar


----------



## lukeap69

I received mine today. I connected to iMac, Theorem 720 then to AKG Q701. This must be the Schiit I have been missing all along!


----------



## Beniamin

I received my lyr2 10 days ago. Although this is my first amplifier I am very enjoying! Source pc asus stx>bifrost/uber> lyr2>akg k812. Lyr on low gain , volume on 12 a clock . Very awesome bass , very dynamic and juicy sound !
I was worried that lyr2 will have some background noise. Absolutely nothing, very clear sound! 
Atm I ordered 2x E88CC/CV2492 mullard. Will see how they will affect the sound..


----------



## lukeap69

Good stuff. Just received my Amperex Orange Globe tubes yesterday. I should have ordered them earlier.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting impressions of the Lyr 2. I look forward to more comparisons to other amps.


----------



## Phonelaf

My Lyr 2 has arrived and is now loaded with Orange Globe´s. Seems like the Lyr 2 is the perfect partner for my Alpha Dogs.
 Now I have to save some money to do the next step, buying a bifrost.
 I have to say that there´s coming very good stuff from the US.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Phonelaf, I received my Alpha Dogs Saturday and I am using a Lyr 2 as well, with Voskhod Silver Shields, it is a wonderful pairing. I am currently using a Modi as my DAC, hopefully a Bitfrost soon. What are you using as a DAC presently, what types of music do you listen to?


----------



## Phonelaf

Hi, 
 I´m using a HRT Microstreamer at the moment. I like many types of music. Currently I´m listening a lot to Tommy Guerrero, Massive Attack, Daft Punk and older Jack Johnson songs.


----------



## listen4joy

i waiting for serious review about the Lyr2 combined with Lcd 2 rev 2.2


----------



## Tuneslover

I ended up deciding on the Lake People G109-S after all. It arrived from Germany about 1 week ago. The reviews on Headfonia and InnerFidelity sounded more in line what I was looking for (neutral and transparent). Indeed it is and does sound stellar with my Bifrost. I just wasn't sure about going tubes so I couldn't go with the Lyr2. Too bad I don't have the coin to get it as well. Sounds like you're enjoying yours. Happy listening!


----------



## toobuzz

I got my Lyr 2 this week, and I can't find anything negative to say about it. Yes I have the Alpha Dogs and they sound great on it, but I never thought that a more sensitive hp like the TH900 would sound so good. On low gain, I have no worries that the Lyr 2 is too powerful for any of my 25 - 32 ohm cans. 

I'm pretty happy with my rig, right now. The Lyr 2 has line outputs that allow me to run my powered monitors through it. I'm also am using the Schiit Sys (in reverse) to switch between my Violectric V200 and the Lyr 2, all through the Bifrost.

I'm using '78 Voskhod silver shields and they certainly make for a great listening experience. I'm getting a warm sound with great bass presence and timbre. The mids are not too forward and the treble is lush and smooth. Extension in both the bass and treble are there, too. I really like the base sound signature of this amp and rolling in tubes to taste is going to be a blast!

Again, I never expected this to be my primary amp for the TH900, I bought it for my Alpha Dogs. The V200 is a pain to adjust the gain because of the dip switches in the rear, and the Alpha Dogs do need a boost on that amp. While the V200 is certainly more detailed (to my ears), that doesn't always equate to a more pleasurable listening experience. As far as soundstage goes, I'm tempted to give the nod to the Lyr 2, with the current tubes I'm running. With so many tube options it's hard to make any definitive comparisons. 

The tubes are still powered while passing through to the line outputs. That's about the only negative that I can think of.


----------



## john57

toobuzz said:


> The tubes are still powered while passing through to the line outputs. That's about the only negative that I can think of.


 
 The tubes not add to the tube "magic" to the headphones output but the line out as well. That's a plus for me.


----------



## toobuzz

john57 said:


> The tubes not add to the tube "magic" to the headphones output but the line out as well. That's a plus for me.


 
  
 I'm pretty sure that the tubes are not involved with the RCA outs.  They just don't have a way to not be powered while the amp is on.  I could be wrong, though.


----------



## Mark-sf

toobuzz said:


> I'm pretty sure that the tubes are not involved with the RCA outs.  They just don't have a way to not be powered while the amp is on.  I could be wrong, though.


 
 The tubes are actively processing the signal when you are using the preamp output. Its preamp is not passive.


----------



## Rem0o

I also believe the tubes provide the line-out gain.


----------



## jamato8

What does the Lyr 2 come with the 6BZ7? I ordered one to replace my still good sounding Lyr. Odd there aren't more reviews, comparisons and impressions.


----------



## toobuzz

jamato8 said:


> What does the Lyr 2 come with the 6BZ7? I ordered one to replace my still good sounding Lyr. Odd there aren't more reviews, comparisons and impressions.




Yes. My Lyr 2 came with 6BZ7 tubes. I agree with you. I excepted to see more buzz about the Lyr 2 here. The gain switch adds major flexibility and I'm confident in its ability to perform well above its price point!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jamato8 said:


> What does the Lyr 2 come with the 6BZ7? I ordered one to replace my still good sounding Lyr. Odd there aren't more reviews, comparisons and impressions.





Yes, 6BZ7's, the Lyr 2 is a great amp. Not much in reviews, but word on the 560 Thread is very positive about the combination. Plus,recent meet/show threads have some very favorable impressions.


----------



## jamato8

Well I will know soon enough. I am listening to the Lyr right now with some Amperex A frame. In storage I have Orange globes, white, more A frames, PQ and many others. Years ago I didn't like the 6DJ8 family, back in the early 90's and started working with them more. My analogue stage I built for my Dac is 6DJ8 based. I originally suggested to Schiit that they use the 6BZ7 as it was the original 6DJ8 tube in TV's and an inexpensive but decent tube and better than what they were selling with the original Lyr. In the right set up, with the bias right and plate voltage, the 6BZ7 can sound as good as any 6DJ8 but that requires knowing what you are doing with the circuit. My favorite bias is battery bias for tubes. Easy to do and because of its placement, the battery is kept charged and if within a voltage range of single or multiples of the AA or AAA batteries voltage, the bias will float to the right voltage. Nothing cleaner or better sounding for bias, IMO.


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> Yes, 6BZ7's, the Lyr 2 is a great amp. Not much in reviews, but word on the 560 Thread is very positive about the combination. Plus,recent meet/show threads have some very favorable impressions.



My lyr 2 and alpha dogs sound great together. I listen to all types of music, and the lyr 2 makes the sound stage on the AD'S seem more spacious and the treble wand bass more detailed. I
 Was going to start rolling tubes but do to a accident, I will have to wait another month before I roll tubes. Please have a great night., I need to t a key my meds and try to get some sleep..


----------



## Wildcatsare1

reddog said:


> My lyr 2 and alpha dogs sound great together. I listen to all types of music, and the lyr 2 makes the sound stage on the AD'S seem more spacious and the treble wand bass more detailed. I
> Was going to start rolling tubes but do to a accident, I will have to wait another month before I roll tubes. Please have a great night., I need to t a key my meds and try to get some sleep..




Sorry to hear about your accident Reddog, hope all is well, enjoy your Lyr 2 & Alpha Dogs!


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> Sorry to hear about your accident Reddog, hope all is well, enjoy your Lyr 2 & Alpha Dogs!



Thanks Wildcatstare1 I took a fall on a ladder, and in the fall, I cut open my left forearm and hit my head. I feel loopy but I shall recover I shall go enjoy the alpha dogs and Lyr 2, and let the sound heal me.


----------



## Phonelaf

Switched back to the stock tubes because my Orange Globes are noisy from about 12 o´clock in low gain (in high gain all over).
 Do you have probs with the Orange Globes or is it bad luck?
 Maybe I will get Bugle Boys next month.


----------



## reddog

phonelaf said:


> Switched back to the stock tubes because my Orange Globes are noisy from about 12 o´clock in low gain (in high gain all over).
> Do you have probs with the Orange Globes or is it bad luck?
> Maybe I will get Bugle Boys next month.


Hello I had a guy tell me the gold lions were a good tube to roll in the lyr 2, because it brought out the bass more in his alpha dogs. I hope to get a set of gold lions and telefunken E88CC, but not for another month. Please have a great day.
P.s how is the weather in Germany, are you having a warm summer?


----------



## Phonelaf

Hi,
 after a warm and sunny weekend (34°) it rained the whole Monday. Today it´s dry but cloudy untill now. Hope the sun comes out later.
 I also had a look on the Telefunkens but they are very expensive. Are they a kind of endgame tubes?
 Regards and get well soon.


----------



## jamato8

Should have the Lyr 2 tomorrow. I have my A frames, PQ, Siemens 6922 and one I forgot I had here. A Amperex branded tube after Amperex stopped producing their own tubes but would fill orders from other manufactures. I lucked into these, buying around 12 pairs. They are the best measuring and closest of all my tubes of the 6DJ8 and sound better than anything else I have tried and this when using them in my analog stage of my home Dac, which is based on a high end Audio Note UK Dac. 1000 dollar output transformers and pure silver input digital transformer for the coax. The tubes are made in the USSR, though not branded as such, just branded by Amperex in the early 80's. The purity of sound, solid bass, beautiful clean highs and mids that flesh out the human voice so well, you can be transfixed. So I ordered some Telefunken from Upscale Audio to see how they fair compared to my special Amperex in the Lyr 2. 
  
 Seems like the USSR Amperex hit twice as hard in the bass. Not overblown or unnatural, just solid, noted, and visceral impact.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^I am interested in how your Russian Amperexs fair against Upscale's Tele's, are your Russian Tubes hard to find/expensive?


----------



## Henry Gukas

Hi! 
 I have a few of questions about the pairing of the HD700 with the Lyr 2 that I am hoping you could really help me out on!
  
 1) Do you think this amp would be a signifiant upgrade over the  FiiOE12 paired with the HD700?
  
 2) Is there another amp, from your own experience, that you would reccomend within the same price range (+/- $100) that might be a bit more suitable with the HD700?
  
 3) Which tubes would you recommend for the HD700?
  
 I'm somewhat of a newbie to this hobby and would much appreciate your help!
  
 - Henry


----------



## daerron

henry gukas said:


> Hi!
> I have a few of questions about the pairing of the HD700 with the Lyr 2 that I am hoping you could really help me out on!
> 
> 1) Do you think this amp would be a signifiant upgrade over the  FiiOE12 paired with the HD700?
> ...


 
  
 I would prefer a valve only amp with the HD700, though the gain settings on the Lyr 2 makes it much more versatile amp. Check out the Valhalla 2 and the Bottlehead Crack also seems well recommended.


----------



## Mark-sf

henry gukas said:


> Hi!
> I have a few of questions about the pairing of the HD700 with the Lyr 2 that I am hoping you could really help me out on!
> 
> 1) Do you think this amp would be a signifiant upgrade over the  FiiOE12 paired with the HD700?
> ...


 
 While the E12 will power your HD700's just fine and is a nice portable amp, if you want to get the full potential out of the 700's, a desktop amp is called for. I am running the Lyr2+HD700 combination for the last month and I had been running the Lyr for a year prior. I also have a very fine portable DAC/Amp in the Practical Devices XM6 that I have used with the 700's as well as time with the Asgard 2. All of these amps make the 700's sound very good with full bass thru treble extension. I haven't found any major frequency response variations among them when the Lyr or Lyr2 is running with its stock tubes.  In fact if I had only ever hear the Lyr in this way I would have kept the Asgard 2 as it is quieter and $200 cheaper.  
  
 However, one hasn't really heard the Lyr or its new version unless you have tried it with premium NOS tubes!  Where all the amps above present detailed, extended ear-to-ear reproduction, it is largely dimensionally flat in the plane of your head unless one is listening to binaural or sounded recordings. With the premium tubes that I have (Lorenz Stuttgart 6922, and Voshod Rockets 6N23P) the presentation changes dramatically. Quality stereo mic'd recordings that have an acoustic cause the presentation to expand forward of your head. In addition the instruments start appearing. What I mean by that is in "flat mode" you hear the notes, strings, skins, etc but, they are disembodied. With these tubes they link up so that you actually hear the instruments along with their music as a whole making the performance deeply satisfying in the way live music is.  Now there are differences in the two tube sets and I found the Lorenz has a bit less extended treble compared to the VRs. But this is subtle compared to the change in dimensionality and coherence.  I simply find the stock tubes too "in your head" and prefer a more conductor/audience presentation for dedicated listening sessions.  
  
 I know others here enjoy the new Valhalla 2 which can now accommodate the efficiency of the 700's. I have not heard that combination. I preferred the Lyr over the original Valhalla at the frequency extremes and do not feel the Class A MOSFET output stage imparts any grain or harshness. I come from using Stax for years, so am particularly sensitive to clean treble presentation.  Finally, I do not have extended experience with other tube or hybrid amps, but I don't believe you would second guess yourself if you went with the Lyr 2.


----------



## Henry Gukas

mark-sf said:


> While the E12 will power your HD700's just fine and is a nice portable amp, if you want to get the full potential out of the 700's, a desktop amp is called for. I am running the Lyr2+HD700 combination for the last month and I had been running the Lyr for a year prior. I also have a very fine portable DAC/Amp in the Practical Devices XM6 that I have used with the 700's as well as time with the Asgard 2. All of these amps make the 700's sound very good with full bass thru treble extension. I haven't found any major frequency response variations among them when the Lyr or Lyr2 is running with its stock tubes.  In fact if I had only ever hear the Lyr in this way I would have kept the Asgard 2 as it is quieter and $200 cheaper.
> 
> However, one hasn't really heard the Lyr or its new version unless you have tried it with premium NOS tubes!  Where all the amps above present detailed, extended ear-to-ear reproduction, it is largely dimensionally flat in the plane of your head unless one is listening to binaural or sounded recordings. With the premium tubes that I have (Lorenz Stuttgart 6922, and Voshod Rockets 6N23P) the presentation changes dramatically. Quality stereo mic'd recordings that have an acoustic cause the presentation to expand forward of your head. In addition the instruments start appearing. What I mean by that is in "flat mode" you hear the notes, strings, skins, etc but, they are disembodied. With these tubes they link up so that you actually hear the instruments along with their music as a whole making the performance deeply satisfying in the way live music is.  Now there are differences in the two tube sets and I found the Lorenz has a bit less extended treble compared to the VRs. But this is subtle compared to the change in dimensionality and coherence.  I simply find the stock tubes too "in your head" and prefer a more conductor/audience presentation for dedicated listening sessions.
> 
> I know others here enjoy the new Valhalla 2 which can now accommodate the efficiency of the 700's. I have not heard that combination. I preferred the Lyr over the original Valhalla at the frequency extremes and do not feel the Class A MOSFET output stage imparts any grain or harshness. I come from using Stax for years, so am particularly sensitive to clean treble presentation.  Finally, I do not have extended experience with other tube or hybrid amps, but I don't believe you would second guess yourself if you went with the Lyr 2.





I really appreciate your quick reply great advice. How do the two tubes you mentioned perform when it comes to both bass quantity and quality? 

I'm also looking at the ALO Audio RX MK3. Any thoughts on that pairing with the hd700?

Thank you,

- Henry


----------



## Mark-sf

henry gukas said:


> I really appreciate your quick reply great advice. How do the two tubes you mentioned perform when it comes to both bass quantity and quality?
> 
> I'm also looking at the ALO Audio RX MK3. Any thoughts on that pairing with the hd700?
> 
> ...


 
 Using the Lyr 2 I do not note a change in bass between the tubes in either quantity or quality. This may be influenced by the new regulated power supplies in the Lyr 2. Please note that I do not like emphasized bass and do not enjoy and bass overhang in either my speakers or my headphones.  I have no experience with ALO products but it seems to me that given its $649 price that unless you needed both balanced and battery support, your money could be better spent as unbalanced it is rather anemic in its price category. That being said I believe in selecting an amp that can support a full range of headphones as I have multiple.


----------



## john57

So are you saying that there is not as much noticeable differences between tubes as compared to the Lyr 1?


----------



## jamato8

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^I am interested in how your Russian Amperexs fair against Upscale's Tele's, are your Russian Tubes hard to find/expensive?


 
 I have over 3,000 tubes and used to even buy tubes from Germany and a few other places and these are the only ones I have found. They are marked made in Germany but I know better and the bottle size all appears to be USSR but they do have normal pins, not the smaller Russian type that are often silver in color, which is the only odd thing. Yes, they are very hard to find. I don't think Amerex did many of these. 
  
 Listening to the Lyr 2 now with my Amperex USSR tubes. It needs to burn in thought but so far nice, sweet sounding and a great bass foundation through the Hifiman 560's. I should have the Teles early next week. Have plenty of tubes to play with up till then. The Tele's cost as much as the amp but then tubes are circuits and well worth the price. Like getting a car off of the lot and then realizing to really get what you want, you need better tires.


----------



## jamato8

Ok, got the Lyr 2 going more. Love the notes, like when I used to play guitar, you can hear those notes hang and decay. Using the ESW10 Jpn right now, and they sound great. Sweet. And what's is like with 100 hours or so on it? Great deal for the sound, that is for sure.


----------



## Mark-sf

john57 said:


> So are you saying that there is not as much noticeable differences between tubes as compared to the Lyr 1?


 
 I am not going to generalize as I have only tried a few tube sets. However, the addition of the gain switch and regulated supplies means that tubes otherwise unacceptable due to hum or noise are now an option for a wide range of cans. Now one does have to watch one's wallet if tube-rolling is an irresistible temptation.


----------



## Henry Gukas

I'm very close to ordering the new Lyr 2 for the HD700, but before I do, I'd like to rule out the Mjolnir. Has anyone had any experience with the both amps? Cost wise, with quality tubes for the Lyr, both amps will be similar.


----------



## meusickfrek

Sounds like a great pair of tubes Jamato.  I just bout the Lyr 2, which is my first amp with tubes, can you or anyone suggest a good set of tubes for HD600, something that will liven them up and bring out some bass? I like to hear bass texture, and real sounding music with a great sound stage and separation, once again to get that "real" sound.


----------



## Mark-sf

While I haven't tried the 


henry gukas said:


> I'm very close to ordering the new Lyr 2 for the HD700, but before I do, I'd like to rule out the Mjolnir. Has anyone had any experience with the both amps? Cost wise, with quality tubes for the Lyr, both amps will be similar.


 
 While I have not heard the Mjolnir with the HD700's be advised that you would also have to factor in balanced cables for the HD700 as it does not have an unbalanced input. Schiit does provide a home trial as well.


----------



## toobuzz

henry gukas said:


> I'm very close to ordering the new Lyr 2 for the HD700, but before I do, I'd like to rule out the Mjolnir. Has anyone had any experience with the both amps? Cost wise, with quality tubes for the Lyr, both amps will be similar.




Not having heard the Mjolnir, I think your decision should should be based on whether or not you want tubes. I like having both solid state and tube amps in my system. Different combinations of sources, recordings, and headphones may sound more pleasing to you through Lry 2 as opposed to the Mjolnir. Maybe the right question is which should you get first?


----------



## meusickfrek

It's here! Placed the order at night on the 24th and it is here on the 27th, pretty fast.  Now to decide on some new tubes for my senns


----------



## Henry Gukas

toobuzz said:


> Not having heard the Mjolnir, I think your decision should should be based on whether or not you want tubes. I like having both solid state and tube amps in my system. Different combinations of sources, recordings, and headphones may sound more pleasing to you through Lry 2 as opposed to the Mjolnir. Maybe the right question is which should you get first?


 
 I am definitely leaning more towards the Lyr 2. I also think that my Ultrasone Pro 900s would benefit quite a bit from a tube amp, based on my readings. Once I have enough money saved away, I think my next dac/amp will be the Grace M903 after I acquire Lyr 2.


----------



## Rudiger

no lyr 1 / lyr 2 comparison yet ?


----------



## jamato8

rudiger said:


> no lyr 1 / lyr 2 comparison yet ?


 
 I have both, letting the 2 burn in. I think they are both good and if I didn't have the 2, would be happy with the 1, even knowing the sound of the 2. I realize I have mentioned the sound difference but I haven't gone into any real comparisons other than knowing how each sounds but not how they sound back to back. Also I don't have 2 pairs of tubes that are the same, to do a rapid back and forth but in general they are both musical with the music scape a little more open on the 2 and a possible greater timbre accuracy on the 2 but again, I like them both. 
  
 Probably around 24 hours or a little more on the 2 now. Bass is boomy, which I would assume will improve but it kind of floods the sound scape. Most likely needs a good 100 hours or so for the caps to form and so on.


----------



## HK_sends

jamato8 said:


> I have both, letting the 2 burn in. I think they are both good and if I didn't have the 2, would be happy with the 1, even knowing the sound of the 2. I realize I have mentioned the sound difference but I haven't gone into any real comparisons other than knowing how each sounds but not how they sound back to back. Also I don't have 2 pairs of tubes that are the same, to do a rapid back and forth but in general they are both musical with the music scape a little more open on the 2 and a possible greater timbre accuracy on the 2 but again, I like them both.
> 
> Probably around 24 hours or a little more on the 2 now. Bass is boomy, which I would assume will improve but it kind of floods the sound scape. Most likely needs a good 100 hours or so for the caps to form and so on.


 
 I guess my question is about the noise floor...I've heard it's supposed to be lower with the 2.  What are your thoughts?
 Cheers and Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## Mark-sf

The noise floor is significantly lower due to two changes. First the gain switch allows you to optimize for sensitivity sine the gain is after the volume control. The other is the addition of regulation to the tube supplies that reduces hum and line noise.


----------



## john57

I read that the noise floor is also lower due to the use of DC for the tube heaters instead of AC.


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks for the info!  I went ahead and ordered one to replace the Lyr I sold a little while ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

hk_sends said:


> Thanks for the info!  I went ahead and ordered one to replace the Lyr I sold a little while ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The noise floor is very, very low, I can't hear any hiss and the background is very black. 
  
 I received my Telefunken E88CC today from Upscale Audio, Platinum and Gold grade, one pair of each. Not cheap but very, very fine sounding. Balanced and clean with beautiful transparency. Get them while you can, Telefunken 6DJ8 types are hard to find. Also they have the 7DJ8, which I wish I would have gotten a pair and those are also good. Gold grade is all that you should need for the amp. 
  
 The Teles E88C remind me of the Tele 12AX7 but not as sterile. More musical and complete. Definitely different from the other 6DJ8 types I have.


----------



## jamato8

The Lyr 2 is starting to kick into high gear now. Very dynamic and solid. Nice depth in the sound field and rhythm that fits the music. Sounds good with all my headphones. The Telefunken E88CC are proving their worth.


----------



## reddog

Hi all:
 I recently rolled the stock tubes of my lyr 2, to a pair of gold lions and I am very happy. The bass on my alpha dogs seem deeper, a bit more defined. The sound seems less veiled and more transparent, and holographic than the stock tubes. Overall I am very impressed with the new tubes and I hope to try the telefunken E88CC sometime.


----------



## tigon_ridge

What's up with all of this "I rolled tubes and the difference is amazing" comments? Are the stock tubes really that shabby?


----------



## scottcocoabeach

tigon_ridge said:


> What's up with all of this "I rolled tubes and the difference is amazing" comments? Are the stock tubes really that shabby?




If the tubes are similar to what shipped with the first Lyr than the answer is a resounding "yes". Better tubes will make a huge difference.


----------



## jamato8

tigon_ridge said:


> What's up with all of this "I rolled tubes and the difference is amazing" comments? Are the stock tubes really that shabby?


 
 The stock tubes are the 6BZ7, which preceded the 6dJ8 and were used in TV's and so on. I like them and for the price they are a great tube. There are many tastes and preferences in sound so, the difference in opinions but tube rolling will get you many things, like broke, but the option being there, makes it all the more fun and a pliable amp it is.


----------



## meusickfrek

So my stock GE tubes finally opened up and wow.  This is my first experience with an amp that uses tubes and they really make my HD600s come alive and soon two new sets of tubes are coming my way, can't wait to hear the difference.  With a solid state amp the music comes form an X,Y axes, with the Lyr 2 the sound comes from an X,Y and Z axes, much more 3D.  Also, I thought bad (live) recordings would sound worse, actually I feel like the tubes make them sound better.  Cheers to all that are enjoying this wonderful amp.


----------



## reddog

jamato8 said:


> The stock tubes are the 6BZ7, which preceded the 6dJ8 and were used in TV's and so on. I like them and for the price they are a great tube. There are many tastes and preferences in sound so, the difference in opinions but tube rolling will get you many things, like broke, but the option being there, makes it all the more fun and a pliable amp it is.


I agree the stock tubes sound pretty good after a good burn in. I recently rolled my stock tubes with the gold lions and the sound signature changed. I prefer the gold lions when I am listening to music with a lot of bass. But the stock tubes seem better at playing classical and groups like negativeland. I hope to get the telefunken E88CC tubes sometime this fall, however most of my money is going towards a Gungnir usb dac.


----------



## reddog

meusickfrek said:


> So my stock GE tubes finally opened up and wow.  This is my first experience with an amp that uses tubes and they really make my HD600s come alive and soon two new sets of tubes are coming my way, can't wait to hear the difference.  With a solid state amp the music comes form an X,Y axes, with the Lyr 2 the sound comes from an X,Y and Z axes, much more 3D.  Also, I thought bad (live) recordings would sound worse, actually I feel like the tubes make them sound better.  Cheers to all that are enjoying this wonderful amp.


Great description of how the stock tubes sound after they have burned in a bit. Please have a good time listening to your lyr 2. I plan on listening to some frank zappa's "shut up and play your guitar" on my lyr 2.


----------



## jamato8

Wow, I am surprised there are more comments on the 2. To my ear, it does an excellent job.


----------



## FYL941

For the people here using the lyr2 with HE500 what position is your volume knob on when listening?  Just curious.  I find myself between around 10 and 11 o'clock.  Maybe my hearing is going out....as I feel like that's pretty high...


----------



## jamato8

Many things determine where you have the volume control. Voltage out of your source to the amp, hearing sensitivity of the phones, volume the recording was recorded at, gain of the amp and on and on. Use whatever volume setting you need to for the music. I would be around 11oclock with the 500's, depending on the variables involved.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^i am at 12:30 with the HE560's, depends on the recording, the source, and how loud you listen......enjoy the music!


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^i am at 12:30 with the HE560's, depends on the recording, the source, and how loud you listen......enjoy the music!



How are the HE-560 working out? Do they compliment your alpha dogs. I am tempted to get the 560's, to compliment my dogs. Have a great evening.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

reddog said:


> How are the HE-560 working out? Do they compliment your alpha dogs. I am tempted to get the 560's, to compliment my dogs. Have a great evening.




Reddog, the 560's are very, very good, not ready. For a full review yet, Ned more head time. They do compliment the Alpha Dogs well, similar SQ, not quite as hot on the high end. The Alpha Dogs are my cans of choice when I need to be quieter, at work or in a noisy environment. My 650's have been benched, guess I need to sell them to fund a better DAC. 

How are you enjoying the 400i's?


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> Reddog, the 560's are very, very good, not ready. For a full review yet, Ned more head time. They do compliment the Alpha Dogs well, similar SQ, not quite as hot on the high end. The Alpha Dogs are my cans of choice when I need to be quieter, at work or in a noisy environment. My 650's have been benched, guess I need to sell them to fund a better DAC.
> 
> How are you enjoying the 400i's?



Hopefully the HE-400i demos will be here next week. I will let you know how they sound soon.


----------



## jamato8

Anyone run some 6SN7's with adapters in the Lyr 2?


----------



## Mark-sf

jamato8 said:


> Anyone run some 6SN7's with adapters in the Lyr 2?


 
 No, because it is not an appropriate replacement. For one thing its filament current is 600ma which is double that which the regulation supports.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

reddog said:


> Hi all:
> I recently rolled the stock tubes of my lyr 2, to a pair of gold lions and I am very happy. The bass on my alpha dogs seem deeper, a bit more defined. The sound seems less veiled and more transparent, and holographic than the stock tubes. Overall I am very impressed with the new tubes and I hope to try the telefunken E88CC sometime.


 
 Good to hear that you're enjoying your lions! I always wanted to try the Alpha Dogs. I am rolling Orange Globes with Sennheiser HD 650s, Bugle Boys with HE-500s, and Vokshod Rockets, which seem quite versatile, with both of them. Listening to the Vokshods as I type. For the Bugle Boys, I believe the magic year is 1959 or 1958 (can't recall off the top of my head). I'll need to check out the lions.


----------



## reddog

liu junyuan said:


> Good to hear that you're enjoying your lions! I always wanted to try the Alpha Dogs. I am rolling Orange Globes with Sennheiser HD 650s, Bugle Boys with HE-500s, and Vokshod Rockets, which seem quite versatile, with both of them. Listening to the Vokshods as I type. For the Bugle Boys, I believe the magic year is 1959 or 1958 (can't recall off the top of my head). I'll need to check out the lions.



I hear the vokshods are great sounding in the Lyr2. I hear the HD 650s are great sounding cans, almost got a set the other day. Please take care and thanks for your views on the tubes you have rolled in your lyr2., it is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

reddog said:


> I hear the vokshods are great sounding in the Lyr2. I hear the HD 650s are great sounding cans, almost got a set the other day. Please take care and thanks for your views on the tubes you have rolled in your lyr2., it is greatly appreciated.


 
 Well, I am still using the Lyr, not to the Lyr 2 yet. The HD 650s are indeed great sounding, but so are the Alpha Dogs.


----------



## reddog

liu junyuan said:


> Well, I am still using the Lyr, not to the Lyr 2 yet. The HD 650s are indeed great sounding, but so are the Alpha Dogs.



The Alpha Dogs are simply fantastic, the sound never fails to put a smile on my face. Also the dogs help isolate outside novice, so I can focus on my reading and writing.. I do wish I had a set of Alpha Dogs while in college, they would had allowed me filter outside noise , so I could study more efficiently. Please have a good morning.


----------



## latimerfripp

I just ordered my Schiit Lyr 2, to go with my Schiit Uberfrost-USB-Flac files from computer
 Right now I have the BeyerDynamic T1 headphones, but maybe in the near future I will get my HD800 and LCD2 Rev 2 back or get a HE500 or 560. listening to classical music and progressive rock\classic rock mainly.
 I used to have the Bifrost with the Violectric V200 amp, but it sounded really dull and lifeless with my HD800 and LCD2,
 I hope the Lyr will make me love my headphones once again.
  
  
 I also ordered Telefunken pcc85 tubes, got them for a good price. hope they will make a noticeable difference.
 Just a quick question- Can I burn in the amp WITHOUT the tubes installed or is this a stupid idea? I don't want to waste precious tube hours for the burn in process..
  
 thanks.


----------



## Mark-sf

latimerfripp said:


> I just ordered my Schiit Lyr 2, to go with my Schiit Uberfrost-USB-Flac files from computer
> Right now I have the BeyerDynamic T1 headphones, but maybe in the near future I will get my HD800 and LCD2 Rev 2 back or get a HE500 or 560. listening to classical music and progressive rock\classic rock mainly.
> I used to have the Bifrost with the Violectric V200 amp, but it sounded really dull and lifeless with my HD800 and LCD2,
> I hope the Lyr will make me love my headphones once again.
> ...


 
 I am afraid that the PCC85's are not an optimum choice due to their filament requirement for 9v  as compared to 6.3v for the stock tubes. I have a pair of PCC189's from Lorenz that work well with a 7.6v requirement but I haven't heard anyone recommending the PCC85's. That being said, since their filament rating is 300ma, you will not exceed the Lyr specs but will likely only be running about 215ma of heater current in the Lyr 2. You might want to send a note to Jason to confirm.
  
 As far as burning in, no you cannot do it without the tubes. My suggestion is to enjoy the stock tubes during the time and get to know their sound before trying the Telel's. Then you will be in position to evaluate whether they are an improvement.


----------



## latimerfripp

Thanks for the reply. I also ordered PCC189 Siemens tubes.. hoping the Lyr will make my Beyer T1 shine. because now they sound just like 'better' dt880. I expect much more from a headphone at this price.


----------



## antikryst

Any reviews for the lyr 2 from the usual review sites? It's been a while and still havnt seen a review. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## jamato8

mark-sf said:


> No, because it is not an appropriate replacement. For one thing its filament current is 600ma which is double that which the regulation supports.


 
 Good reason. I was thinking of my analog section I built for my dac that can handle the current demands of most any tubes filaments.


----------



## kman1211

I just bought the Schiit Lyr 2, should be here in a couple days. I'm curious how it will pair with my K712s and DT 150s.


----------



## jexby

ditto, I'm back in the Lyr game now also!
  
 last year sold off:  HE-500 and Lyr.
 now back again with "upgrades": HE-560 and Lyr 2.
  
 will install my leftover Ediswan tubes first, then look toward Siemens, Amperex SQ, Telefunken E88CC  and call it good.  hopefully.


----------



## jamato8

The Lyr 2 does a great job with the 560's. I am very happy with this combination.


----------



## kupleh

Finally I get myself Lyr 2 and now burning in. So far soo good. Currently enjoying this with my Alpha Dog, its just wow.


----------



## jcdeng

Using my stock tube Lyr2 with Modi. When on the HE-500 with hi gain there is a noticeable background/static noise when theres no sound playing. Anybody else have this problem with theirs? or did I get a defective product (which I doubt). I also find stock tubes to be a bit lacking in the bass, mids are great but bass and treble not so much.
  
 Also, the knob gets HOT. I don't mind that the rest of the metal body get hot but sometime when I have to adjust the volume it would freaking burn my finger if I touch it for more than 1 second.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jcdeng said:


> Using my stock tube Lyr2 with Modi. When on the HE-500 with hi gain there is a noticeable background/static noise when theres no sound playing. Anybody else have this problem with theirs? or did I get a defective product (which I doubt). I also find stock tubes to be a bit lacking in the bass, mids are great but bass and treble not so much.
> 
> Also, the knob gets HOT. I don't mind that the rest of the metal body get hot but sometime when I have to adjust the volume it would freaking burn my finger if I touch it for more than 1 second.




Is it only in one channel, are your tubes set tightly in place? If only in one channel, switch the tubes and see if the noise moves with the tube. Check all of your connections.....it is not normal, but Schiit is really good about testing and burning in their units before shipping. Also, you can contact Nick, tech@schiit.com. Best of luck, you will love it with your 500's!


----------



## kupleh

jcdeng said:


> Using my stock tube Lyr2 with Modi. When on the HE-500 with hi gain there is a noticeable background/static noise when theres no sound playing. Anybody else have this problem with theirs? or did I get a defective product (which I doubt). I also find stock tubes to be a bit lacking in the bass, mids are great but bass and treble not so much.
> 
> Also, the knob gets HOT. I don't mind that the rest of the metal body get hot but sometime when I have to adjust the volume it would freaking burn my finger if I touch it for more than 1 second.


 
  
 Using Pandora Hope VI (8 ohm impedance) I also can hear hissing background/static noise on high gain which I won't use high gain anyway with this sensitive headphone.
  
 As heat problem same here, currently I'm using mini fan to lower the temp a bit.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ Class A Amps run very hot, that is normal, it doesn't hurt anything, just make sure the Amp is well ventilated.


----------



## Tuco1965

Tube choice will also make a bit of difference to the temperature.  When I have the Russian rockets in mine, it gets real good and warm.


----------



## jcdeng

wildcatsare1 said:


> Is it only in one channel, are your tubes set tightly in place? If only in one channel, switch the tubes and see if the noise moves with the tube. Check all of your connections.....it is not normal, but Schiit is really good about testing and burning in their units before shipping. Also, you can contact Nick, tech@schiit.com. Best of luck, you will love it with your 500's!


 

 no its on both channels, the tubes are all the way in and sitting at the lowest possible point. I didn't notice the noise when using my beyerdynamics COP on low gain.


----------



## Mark-sf

jcdeng said:


> Using my stock tube Lyr2 with Modi. When on the HE-500 with hi gain there is a noticeable background/static noise when theres no sound playing. Anybody else have this problem with theirs? or did I get a defective product (which I doubt). I also find stock tubes to be a bit lacking in the bass, mids are great but bass and treble not so much.
> 
> Also, the knob gets HOT. I don't mind that the rest of the metal body get hot but sometime when I have to adjust the volume it would freaking burn my finger if I touch it for more than 1 second.


 
 Try disconnecting the Modi as you may be getting noise passed through from your computer. If you are still hearing the noise then I would try removing and reseating the tubes. If that doesn't work I would contact Schiit.  As to the know it will be quite warm. Check to see that it has not been pushed all the way in by using a small hex wrench. By making sure it is not touching the inner nut there is less thermal transfer.


----------



## latimerfripp

It sucks not living in the US. I ordered my Schiit 2 weeks ago and I think my Lyr is stuck at customs, they will probably take 500-600$ because there's tubes in it or somethin' silly like this.. ):
  
 anyway.. Anyone here got the Lye and the Beyer T1 together? how do they match? I'm thinking about getting the HE560 or HE500 in the future as well.


----------



## kman1211

I just got the Schiit Lyr 2 today in the mail, haven't done that much listening yet but impressions are great so far, seems the K712 and the DT 150 sound the best on the amp by a decent margin so far, can't wait for the tubes to burn in. A couple pictures, cable nightmare behind the amp I know, just moved into my college dorm this week.


----------



## NightFlight

Sold my original Lyr in favour of the Crack I've built. I'm somewhat missing my Lyr - kept the Siemens Cca pair for it in fact. Could not give those up because IMHO they release what is the pinnacle capability of that amp in terms of holographic soundstage - which is what headphones are for, yes/no? 
  
 I'm wondering if the topology changes in the Lyr2 are sufficient enough to explore it again - say vs my tricked out crack. Most crack owners who had the Lyr never look back, but it had some good points.


----------



## NightFlight

latimerfripp said:


> It sucks not living in the US. I ordered my Schiit 2 weeks ago and I think my Lyr is stuck at customs, they will probably take 500-600$ because there's tubes in it or somethin' silly like this.. ):
> 
> anyway.. Anyone here got the Lye and the Beyer T1 together? how do they match? I'm thinking about getting the HE560 or HE500 in the future as well.


 
 If you are in Canada there are distributors.
  
 And the HD800 is a good match with the Lyr.


----------



## capitanharlock

Having seen a lot of people who likes to roll the tubes of their headphone amps, I was guessing if these amps are able to accept different tubes without any problem (i.e thay have a circuit that can automatically regulate the bias for the new valves), or if the tube rolling hobby is going to modify in an unexpected and unpredictable way the working parameters of the amp.
  
 Maybe Jason Stoddard could give me his important opinion on this.


----------



## Mark-sf

I am not sure I see your question. Schiit provides a list of the the types that you can roll that are in the range of the amp's electrical specs. What additional info are you looking for?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

nightflight said:


> Sold my original Lyr in favour of the Crack I've built. I'm somewhat missing my Lyr - kept the Siemens Cca pair for it in fact. Could not give those up because IMHO they release what is the pinnacle capability of that amp in terms of holographic soundstage - which is what headphones are for, yes/no?
> 
> I'm wondering if the topology changes in the Lyr2 are sufficient enough to explore it again - say vs my tricked out crack. Most crack owners who had the Lyr never look back, but it had some good points.




You really need to borrow a Lyr 2 if possible, compared to my original Valhalla and the Lyr 1's I tried it is very quiet, has a better soundstage, and those great tubes of your shine through even more.


----------



## wberghofer

latimerfripp said:


> Anyone here got the Lye and the Beyer T1 together? how do they match?



I own Lyr and Valhalla (both first generation) amps. The Lyr works pretty well with the Beyerdynamic T1, but for this headphone I prefer the Valhalla.

Werner.


----------



## capitanharlock

mark-sf said:


> I am not sure I see your question. Schiit provides a list of the the types that you can roll that are in the range of the amp's electrical specs. What additional info are you looking for?


 

 I did not know there was that list.
 Good rolling then!


----------



## Mark-sf

capitanharlock said:


> I did not know there was that list.
> Good rolling then!


 
 The following FAQ is the documentation I was referring to:
  
What about the tubes? Can you roll ‘em?
Lyr 2 uses two 6BZ7 dual triodes, and yes–you can substitute any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 type tube, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. Due to the DC heaters, we do not recommend using 6N1P tube types, or any tube that needs more than 415mA heater current.


----------



## jexby

the flood of Lyr 2 arrivals continue!
 mine just unboxed, time to install some Ediswan tubes tonight and warm up the HE-560s!
  
 hm, need to sell a Vali now it appears....


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jexby said:


> the flood of Lyr 2 arrivals continue!
> 
> mine just unboxed, time to install some Ediswan tubes tonight and warm up the HE-560s!
> 
> hm, need to sell a Vali now it appears....




Do tell?!?! Congratulations on your new Schiit!


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> the flood of Lyr 2 arrivals continue!
> 
> mine just unboxed, time to install some Ediswan tubes tonight and warm up the HE-560s!
> 
> hm, need to sell a Vali now it appears....



Sweet, I would very much like to hear how the Ediswan tubes pair up to your lyr2. I am using gold lions in my lyr2 to run my alpha dogs. Please have a good night jamming out.


----------



## kman1211

The amp is burning in quite nicely, it was a bit thin and brittle at first. It's really warmed up tonally, dynamics have improved greatly, and it's noticeably smoother. It's sounding like a noticeably better version of my EF2A so far, relatively similar sound signature but with noticeably more refinement, clarity, control, depth, and more solidity and tactility to the sound, etc.
  
 The bass on the K712 is starting to hit hard and is honestly the best pairing with the Lyr 2 so far. So far I find the DT 150's bass too powerful on the amp with some songs but despite the bass and warmth it retains clarity, soundstage, and never sounds muffled. My slightly modded Fostex T50RP is doing nicely, they need slightly deeper pads than the Brainwavz HM5 pads though to help with the depth of sound and comfort though, I have angled HM5/NVX pads that really help with the depth and soundstage but some reason the pads really don't agree with me as the sound seems to have some projection issues(disappearing effect of the sound, never experienced anything like it in a headphone), it's weird as the pads are fine on other headphones.


----------



## NightFlight

wildcatsare1 said:


> You really need to borrow a Lyr 2 if possible, compared to my original Valhalla and the Lyr 1's I tried it is very quiet, has a better soundstage, and those great tubes of your shine through even more.


 
  
 Any Canadians that wouldn't mind sending me their Lyr2 for a couple weeks?


----------



## jcdeng

to all the Lyr2 owners, what kind of interconnect RCA cables are you using? I find that the schiit products actually have those red-white plugs too close to each other and most RCA cable male connectors have a "fat" head and when they are both plugged in, they are touching each other.
  
 I am looking for some thin head cables. Thanks


----------



## jexby

From my Concero HD into Lyr2, was using Wireworld Solstice 7 RCA.
But iMac USB ports leak some noise and static that can be heard with no music playing and Lyr 2 knob cranked to max volume.

So now it's Concero HD with PYST cables into JK Audio Pureformer, from there Solstice 7 RCA into Lyr 2.
Dead black silent background now!
And glorious music.


----------



## jcdeng

Schiit! I didn't realize they offer their own set of cables (which should work with their dac and amp perfectly. DUH). I wished they would've include these options at the lyr2 item page so I didn't have to order cables from amazon separately.
  
 Thanks jexby, just ordered a set of PYST. The Solstice 7 were too rich for my blood (as a set of cables anyways) lol


----------



## jexby

wildcatsare1 said:


> Do tell?!?! Congratulations on your new Schiit!


 
  
 This is not a comparison of Ediswan tubes vs. stock or anything else, but after 2 nights with
 iMac-->Concero HD-->JK Audio Purifier-->Lyr 2-->HE-560
 wow oh wow, feel like I'm home again after replacing the Vali.
  
 smooth musical balance with no loss of detail, an encompassing bass that makes you feel like "you are there", sound stage and separation with realistic decay.
 bass definitely has a presence now, with placement and impact when it exists, doesn't feel artificial.
  
 as I stated elsewhere, JK Audio Purifier in my chain provides a dead black background even with vol max and no music playing.
  
 the Lyr 2 + Edi tubes provide a wide soundstage and realism that just makes me shake my head.
 so glad returning to this setup after selling off HE-500 + Lyr 1.
  
 another couple pairs of good tubes for safe backup and just leave this musical bliss rig in place.
  
 hm, Nirvana "Love Buzz" FLAC up.
 let Lyr 2 rock it hard.
 volume knob +4.


----------



## jamato8

jexby said:


> This is not a comparison of Ediswan tubes vs. stock or anything else, but after 2 nights with
> iMac-->Concero HD-->JK Audio Purifier-->Lyr 2-->HE-560
> wow oh wow, feel like I'm home again after replacing the Vali.
> 
> ...


 
 And I am enjoying the Telefunken E88CC. Great sound and fun!  Listening to Greg Brown, great bass and dynamic sound with the 560's.


----------



## BobG55

A quick note to help Canadian Schiit lovers.  Headphone Bar in Vancouver, BC, sells the Lyr2 for $499.95 & the Valhalla2 for $389.95.  Of course there are taxes (especially in Canada) & the s&h is $9.95 per.  
  
 Also, I was speaking/email with one of their salesman who told me that once their Schiit stock is exhausted they will no longer be selling that product.  Something to do with revenue neutral or something; I don't really remember the reason so I don't want to state any false claims either.  
  
 Hope this helps Canadian Head-fiers (Headphone bar ships inside Canada only).  Just Google "Headphone Bar" & their link will appear.


----------



## YtseJamer

bobg55 said:


> A quick note to help Canadian Schiit lovers.  Headphone Bar in Vancouver, BC, sells the Lyr2 for $499.95 & the Valhalla2 for $389.95.  Of course there are taxes (especially in Canada) & the s&h is $9.95 per.
> 
> Also, I was speaking/email with one of their salesman who told me that once their Schiit stock is exhausted they will no longer be selling that product.  Something to do with revenue neutral or something; I don't really remember the reason so I don't want to state any false claims either.
> 
> Hope this helps Canadian Head-fiers (Headphone bar ships inside Canada only).  Just Google "Headphone Bar" & their link will appear.


 
  
 I bought my Lyr 2 today from Headphone Bar


----------



## NickJ

Hi,
  
 I have a random question. I am interested in getting a beefier amp (right now I play out through my Asus Essence ST sound card). If I am not interested in tube rolling, would I be better off with something solid state like the Asgard 2?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

nickj said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a random question. I am interested in getting a beefier amp (right now I play out through my Asus Essence ST sound card). If I am not interested in tube rolling, would I be better off with something solid state like the Asgard 2?




Your profile doesn't list them, what HP's do you want to pair the amp with?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

fyl941 said:


> For the people here using the lyr2 with HE500 what position is your volume knob on when listening?  Just curious.  I find myself between around 10 and 11 o'clock.  Maybe my hearing is going out....as I feel like that's pretty high...


 
 I have the first Lyr, and I usually listen to it at about 11, but I will take it to near 12 when I want to be really engaged.


----------



## toolio

jcdeng said:


> Using my stock tube Lyr2 with Modi. When on the HE-500 with hi gain there is a noticeable background/static noise when theres no sound playing. Anybody else have this problem with theirs? or did I get a defective product (which I doubt). I also find stock tubes to be a bit lacking in the bass, mids are great but bass and treble not so much.
> 
> Also, the knob gets HOT. I don't mind that the rest of the metal body get hot but sometime when I have to adjust the volume it would freaking burn my finger if I touch it for more than 1 second.




I had a similar problem with the original Lyr. I swapped tubes and it made no difference. Schiit graciously told me to send it back and they would ship me a new one. The new one did not have the problem. It was a hassle-free return and great service from Schiit.


----------



## latimerfripp

My Schiit Lyr2 arrived today, customs in my country are EVIL. I paid about 500 dollars for the customs alone, and not including the taxes\delivery...
  
 haven't had the time to listen to it properly yet. but I tried it with my Hifiman HE4 and Beyer T1 with good condition- Siemens Pcc189 tubes, There's a horrible hum when turning the volume knob to listenable levels(11-12 oclock) like the kind of hum you get when you try to max the volume all the way... I switched to the stock tubes and the hum decreased.. but still itis way too much hum in 11-12 oclock with those headphones(the gain switch is set to high, low gain just can't power those headphones well) it overshadows the whole music and I can't enjoy it that way.. there is no background noise\hum when the music is off though.
  
 When I have more time this week I will investigate it further and see if I can fix it easily.. I don't want to send it back to Schiit because it will cost me a lot..


----------



## Iskander71

Hum can be caused by ground loop. Try to use Schiit power cord with so called cheater plug. 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheater_plug


----------



## Amictus

Quote:


latimerfripp said:


> "When I have more time this week I will investigate it further and see if I can fix it easily.. I don't want to send it back to Schiit because it will cost me a lot.."


 
  
 You may like to look at the cautionary tales in this thread, including mine:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/566585/problems-with-schiit-lyr
  
 Good luck. My Lyr 1 sounds great, but has a hum. The extraordinary hum that it developed one day must have been related to a tube, or the seating of the socket savers/tubes or something. At present, it is bearable. Yes, I have tried the JK Audio Purifier - two of them, in fact!


----------



## Amictus

latimerfripp said:


> My Schiit Lyr2 arrived today, customs in my country are EVIL. I paid about 500 dollars for the customs alone, and not including the taxes\delivery...


 
  
 Commiserations about the terrible charges - I thought that it was bad enough in the U.K, but that is something else!


----------



## jcdeng

so, from a few fellow owners and some Lyr 1 threads, it seems that the background hum/hiss/noise is typical of Lyr amps, both gen 1 and 2, so I should just accept it as it is?
  
 when I use my Lyr2 with HE500 the knob is at 12 or 1 o'clock position.


----------



## jexby

jcdeng said:


> so, from a few fellow owners and some Lyr 1 threads, it seems that the background hum/hiss/noise is typical of Lyr amps, both gen 1 and 2, so I should just accept it as it is?
> 
> when I use my Lyr2 with HE500 the knob is at 12 or 1 o'clock position.


 
  
 1.  my Lyr 2 is dead silent.  with no music playing, volume knob max cranked on high gain.  black and quiet.
 even with my NAD HP50 plugged in which are somewhat sensitive.
 I don't believe you should accept the hiss, but can't assist with what would fix it in your case.
  
 my Lyr 2 is plugged into a Furman AC215-A.
 rest of path is:  iMac-->Wireworld Starlight USB-->Concero HD-->PYST RCA cable-->JK Audio Pureformer-->Wireworld Solstice RCA-->Lyr 2
  
  
 2.  Lyr 2 on high gain with my HE-560, volume knob between 10-12 oclock.
 low gain (which I don't recommend with HE-560) can crank it up to 2-3 oclock, which is loud- but sound is thinner and not as full bodied.
  
 Lyr 2 with Ediswan tubes has me shaking my head nightly in amazement of the realistic, live sound of even "average mastered" recordings (lossless 16/44 rips).
 sweet.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jexby said:


> 1.  my Lyr 2 is dead silent.  with no music playing, volume knob max cranked on high gain.  black and quiet.
> even with my NAD HP50 plugged in which are somewhat sensitive.
> I don't believe you should accept the hiss, but can't assist with what would fix it in your case.
> 
> ...




+1, I am able to hook up my Lyr 2, with SONY XBA-4's and PSB M4U's with dead silence, even with the volume cranked, in low and high gain without music playing. I would check my tubes, how they are seated, all connections, disconnect the amp from all inputs and see if the hum persists, if so use a cheater, if not, check your sources. I use a Monster Power Station, strip, not expensive and prevents ground loop or bed electrical system hash, can you get something like it in your locale? If this doesn't help, contact Nick at tech@schiit.com, he's great at responding in a timely manner. Best of luck, cheers!


----------



## NickJ

wildcatsare1 said:


> Your profile doesn't list them, what HP's do you want to pair the amp with?


 
 Right now I have some AKG701s, but I am thinking about some Hifiman HE-560s.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

nickj said:


> Right now I have some AKG701s, but I am thinking about some Hifiman HE-560s.




I don't know about the AKG701's, but the Lyr 2 is an awsome combination!!! Cheer!!!


----------



## lukeap69

Lyr2 pairs well with AKG Q701.


----------



## mangler

I'll be using the Lyr 2 with the TH900, and I'm trying to keep them sounding fun and fast, while filling in the midrange. It sounds like the 
Tungsram 6922 (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tungsram-6922/) and the Telefunken 7dj8 ( http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-pcc88-7dj8/ ; I can't afford the 6922  ) might do the trick. Anyone have experience with these tubes in the Lyr 2, or even in combo with the TH900? Any suggestions on other tubes to consider ( less than 150 for the pair)?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

mangler said:


> I'll be using the Lyr 2 with the TH900, and I'm trying to keep them sounding fun and fast, while filling in the midrange. It sounds like the
> Tungsram 6922 (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tungsram-6922/) and the Telefunken 7dj8 ( http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-pcc88-7dj8/ ; I can't afford the 6922
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I do not know the TH900. Are they slightly more bassy and dark? If so, I would suggest the Amperex Orange Globes. I pair them with my HD650s with wonderful results. If they are a bit bright, look at the Bugle Boys (1959 is the magic year). I have found that Vokshod Rockets 6n23p, which is cheaper than both of these, does quite well with both of my cans. I absolutely love them.


----------



## mangler

liu junyuan said:


> I do not know the TH900. Are they slightly more bassy and dark? If so, I would suggest the Amperex Orange Globes. I pair them with my HD650s with wonderful results. If they are a bit bright, look at the Bugle Boys (1959 is the magic year). I have found that Vokshod Rockets 6n23p, which is cheaper than both of these, does quite well with both of my cans. I absolutely love them.




Great, thanks for the recommendations!


----------



## money4me247

asr said:


> Someone needs to compare it to the Garage1217 Project Ember now that it has that gain switch, and settle once and for all which amp is better-sounding on the same tube.


 
 hahah... this hasn't happened yettt???


----------



## money4me247

hey just curious if anyone here knew whether the maximum power rating of the lyr 2 listed on their spec page is total power or per channel. So would the max power at 32 ohms be 6.0W total power or 6.0W per channel for a 12.0W total. 12.0W total power seems really high!


----------



## Rem0o

money4me247 said:


> hey just curious if anyone here knew whether the maximum power rating of the lyr 2 listed on their spec page is total power or per channel. So would the max power at 32 ohms be 6.0W total power or 6.0W per channel for a 12.0W total. 12.0W total power seems really high!


 
 It's 6W RMS/channel, so yeah "12 W" amp.


----------



## jcdeng

A little update to my static noise situation. So I ordered both the PYST RCA cable and usb cable from Schiit and switched out the other brand cables and the result is a dead silent no noise what-so-ever in between song amp.
  
 Very happy with my schiit!


----------



## money4me247

hiii, just had a quick question for you guys. do you guys notice buzzing/crackling/humming type noises when you have the amp on without any music playing. This occurs with my amp on high gain with the volume pot at 12 o'clock & low gain with the volume pot at 3 o'clock.
  
 Just wondering if this is normal or does it mean there is something defective? thank you!!!


----------



## Mark-sf

money4me247 said:


> hiii, just had a quick question for you guys. do you guys notice buzzing/crackling/humming type noises when you have the amp on without any music playing. This occurs with my amp on high gain with the volume pot at 12 o'clock & low gain with the volume pot at 3 o'clock.
> 
> Just wondering if this is normal or does it mean there is something defective? thank you!!!




It is not normal. Do you have the noise in both channels? Is it there if you disconnect the input cables? Does it remain if you go up in volume past the onset? I would try removing and reseating the tubes for a start.


----------



## jcdeng

money4me247 said:


> hiii, just had a quick question for you guys. do you guys notice buzzing/crackling/humming type noises when you have the amp on without any music playing. This occurs with my amp on high gain with the volume pot at 12 o'clock & low gain with the volume pot at 3 o'clock.
> 
> Just wondering if this is normal or does it mean there is something defective? thank you!!!


 
 My reply above your post answered this question as I had the same problem, bought the cables from schiit and replaced my other brand cables and no more noise.


----------



## money4me247

mark-sf said:


> It is not normal. Do you have the noise in both channels? Is it there if you disconnect the input cables? Does it remain if you go up in volume past the onset? I would try removing and reseating the tubes for a start.


 
 Noise was in both channels. The background noise does disappear when I disconnect the input cables, but reappears if I tap on the amp. The noise appears after reaching a certain level on the volume pot and continues as you turn the knob higher though it does vary in intensity.
  
 I tried removing and reseating the tubes, but this did not help. My tubes will not seat tightly/securely in either socket & there is always wiggle room. I've also noticed that the pins of both tubes are not straight, but appear to be bend a bit outwards.
  
 background noise does decrease when I unplug the power supply from my laptop & it disappears when I plug into my tablet instead, but I still get noise from tapping on the amp. I tried adding a ground loop isolator, but background noise still present. I've also noticed noise in the amp from cable movement with three different rca cables and my headphone cables.
  
 what should I do? =(


----------



## money4me247

jcdeng said:


> My reply above your post answered this question as I had the same problem, bought the cables from schiit and replaced my other brand cables and no more noise.


 
 do you still get noise from tapping on your amp though? when my amp is completely unplugged and I tap on it, there is some severe staticy sounds. also, I have three different RCA cables and the problem is present with all three.


----------



## jexby

money4me247 said:


> Noise was in both channels. The background noise does disappear when I disconnect the input cables, but reappears if I tap on the amp. The noise appears after reaching a certain level on the volume pot and continues as you turn the knob higher though it does vary in intensity.
> 
> I tried removing and reseating the tubes, but this did not help. My tubes will not seat tightly/securely in either socket & there is always wiggle room. I've also noticed that the pins of both tubes are not straight, but appear to be bend a bit outwards.
> 
> ...




1. Quit posting the same thing in 2 threads.
2. Email schiit.

My tubes are so tight and straight in my Lyr 2 it's difficult to actually remove them.


----------



## jcdeng

tap on amp no noise, even if I accidentally bump into it with my keyboard, still silent. I don't know which cable made the difference since I replaced both RCA (between dac and amp) and USB cable (between computer and dac) at  the same time.  This is with all my current headphones, beyer COP, JVC sz2000, and high gain Hifiman HE500.


----------



## kman1211

money4me247 said:


> do you still get noise from tapping on your amp though? when my amp is completely unplugged and I tap on it, there is some severe staticy sounds. also, I have three different RCA cables and the problem is present with all three.


 

 There shouldn't be a static noise. I do get a noise when I tap or rub my Bugle Boy tubes or tap the amp itself(to a lesser degree) which seems to play the sound of me tapping or rubbing the tube or amp, especially the front tube which seems to be the left channel. Otherwise it's dead silent. This doesn't happen with the stock tubes. If you are getting static, either something is wrong with the amp or tubes, or the amp or tubes are picking up some sort of interference.


----------



## money4me247

thank you all for your informative replies. I have isolated the interference problems & fixed it with your help. This never occurred to me with any other equipment, so very weird to me how the lyr 2 had issues there.
  
 My tubes are still super extremely wiggly and prone to unseating randomly. Doesn't appear to be a common occurrence from your feedback, so I really appreciate everyone's responses. I may email schiit about this if I can't seat the tubes properly after a few more days. I don't really feel good about having to pay shipping back for tubes with bent pins, and I can't tell if it's the tubes or the socket. Very unfortunate.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

You need to contact Nick at tech@schiit.com, I had a bad tube when I had my Valhalla, I received a bad tube, they sent a new set, free.


----------



## jexby

money4me247 said:


> My tubes are still super extremely wiggly and prone to unseating randomly. Doesn't appear to be a common occurrence from your feedback, so I really appreciate everyone's responses. I may email schiit about this if I can't seat the tubes properly after a few more days. I don't really feel good about having to pay shipping back for tubes with bent pins, and I can't tell if it's the tubes or the socket. Very unfortunate.


 
  
 yikes!  wiggly and unseating randomly??
 recipe for disaster.  obviously a defect.  might not be the pins, but instead the sockets.
 neither my Lyr 1 nor Lyr 2 had this symptom, and best to contact Nick at Schiit right away.  my Lyr 2 tubes are so tight it takes focused effort and strength to get them out.


----------



## lukeap69

One of the sockets of my Lyr 2 is very tight as well. I needed to use a bit of force to fit the tube properly. I have no other issues with my Lyr 2 though except I do not have enough time to roll other tubes I purchased recently.


----------



## money4me247

jexby said:


> yikes!  wiggly and unseating randomly??
> recipe for disaster.  obviously a defect.  might not be the pins, but instead the sockets.
> neither my Lyr 1 nor Lyr 2 had this symptom, and best to contact Nick at Schiit right away.  my Lyr 2 tubes are so tight it takes focused effort and strength to get them out.


 
  


lukeap69 said:


> One of the sockets of my Lyr 2 is very tight as well. I needed to use a bit of force to fit the tube properly. I have no other issues with my Lyr 2 though except I do not have enough time to roll other tubes I purchased recently.


 
  
 Thank you guys for your feedback. My previous tube amplifiers had a very tight connection, so I suspected that this might not be ordinary. Schiit tech support suggested that I try to straighten the pins myself, so I tentatively gave it a go. Had to google how to straight tube pins as tube straighteners seem scare nowadays. Found this helpful link for anyone else who experiences this problem in the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh7PrUu9u84 & 
  
 Good news!!! I was able to set down both tubes very securely after some fiddling & now I do not even experience any distortion when I tap/touch on my amplifier. Only time will time if they will unseat randomly or if I get any random distortion, but I have a very good feeling about this. Finally was able to achieve a nice tight connection that I feel comfy with. So happy!!!! thank you everyone for all your help 
  
 edit: after all that work to get the stock tubes to sit tightly into the amp, I probably won't be attempting any tube rolling as I'm don't wanna take the tubes out of their sockets. luckily, I am very happy with the stock tube sound


----------



## lukeap69

Glad it worked out for you. Enjoy!


----------



## Fearless1

money4me247 said:


> Thank you guys for your feedback. My previous tube amplifiers had a very tight connection, so I suspected that this might not be ordinary. Schiit tech support suggested that I try to straighten the pins myself, so I tentatively gave it a go. Had to google how to straight tube pins as tube straighteners seem scare nowadays. Found this helpful link for anyone else who experiences this problem in the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh7PrUu9u84 &
> 
> Good news!!! I was able to set down both tubes very securely after some fiddling & now I do not even experience any distortion when I tap/touch on my amplifier. Only time will time if they will unseat randomly or if I get any random distortion, but I have a very good feeling about this. Finally was able to achieve a nice tight connection that I feel comfy with. So happy!!!! thank you everyone for all your help
> 
> edit: after all that work to get the stock tubes to sit tightly into the amp, I probably won't be attempting any tube rolling as I'm don't wanna take the tubes out of their sockets. luckily, I am very happy with the stock tube sound


 

 Buy some socket savers, they make rolling easier on the Lyr and raise the tube so you can see the captivating glow http://www.tubemonger.com/


----------



## money4me247

just curious, can you damage your headphones if you change the gain without unplugging them?


----------



## FYL941

Just make sure you have the volume knob/pot turned all the way down and you'll be fine


----------



## kman1211

I just got some Amperex Fat Bottle 6DJ8 (Hungary 1983) tubes for the Lyr 2, I can tell already they sound much better than the Amperex Bugle Boys 6DJ8 (Holland 1964) on the Lyr 2. Soundstage finally came to life on the Lyr 2 and the bass has a lot more slam, some reason the Bugle Boys were overly flat sounding on the Lyr 2.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Hello people! Has anyone used the Lyr 2 as a preamp? And if so, how's that been working out for you? I plan to snag a pair of HE-560s, and also either the SE846s, or (leaning toward) W60s; with a Gungnir upstream, and a McIntosh MC122 power amp, and Totem 'The Ones' downstream. Content will be an eclectic array of nearly a half year of ALAC files, mostly 16/44, but some better. Oh, and a bit of vinyl, some of it MFSL. Until there's a bit more cash laying around, I'm going for the absolute best bang for yer buck crap I can manage.

Any input on the aforementioned pre outputs would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## NickJ

(even though I decided not to keep it) I have posted my impressions on the Lyr 2 as well as the Asgard 2 in the following thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/735714/schiit-asgard-2-vs-lyr-2-vs-asus-xonar-essence-st


----------



## Laslen

Hello Sirs!

 I tried searching, could not find a thread that answered this specifically (or it was about the original Lyr).

 I got a new Lyr 2, and what I'm wondering is -- is it normal for there to be a slight "pop" noise in headphones a few seconds after powering the unit on with the volume turned all the way down?

 I'm only concerned because both the Lyr 2 and my Valhalla 2 have a muting relay, but the Valhalla 2 does not make the pop noise with the volume down. I thought the muting relay was there to prevent any voltage spikes on power up (Edit: I own a Valhalla 2, also).

 Edit: It happens on power-off, as well -- but it sounds more "muffled." Like a speaker powering off.
 Edit: WHOAAAAAAAA. Wait, I was wrong. Valhalla 2 does not having a muting relay. Well, basically all I want to know is if other Lyr 2s do this.

 I made a new thread, but someone said to post here. 


 Thanks for reading.


----------



## money4me247

laslen said:


> Hello Sirs!
> 
> I tried searching, could not find a thread that answered this specifically (or it was about the original Lyr).
> 
> ...


 
 all lyr 2s should have a muting relay. You can tell by a click/thunk sound after 20 seconds ish. 
  
 Not sure about a pop sound. My lyr clicks when you turn it off too. Is it like a pop that can be described as a clickythunk or is it a pop that is staticky?


----------



## Laslen

money4me247 said:


> all lyr 2s should have a muting relay. You can tell by a click/thunk sound after 20 seconds ish.
> 
> Not sure about a pop sound. My lyr clicks when you turn it off too. Is it like a pop that can be described as a clickythunk or is it a pop that is staticky?


 
 It's not really staticky. It does have kind of a "click" but it's more of a lower bassy sound, too.

 I can't really describe a better term for it other than a "pop" sound. It's like when you accidentally pull the cord out of a guitar amp, if you've ever used one.

 The Valhalla 2 is completely silent on power on/off.. so I'm not used to the noises the Lyr 2 makes.


----------



## money4me247

laslen said:


> It's not really staticky. It does have kind of a "click" but it's more of a lower bassy sound, too.
> 
> I can't really describe a better term for it other than a "pop" sound. It's like when you accidentally pull the cord out of a guitar amp, if you've ever used one.
> 
> The Valhalla 2 is completely silent on power on/off.. so I'm not used to the noises the Lyr 2 makes.


 
 sounds like the muting relay. this is after 20ish seconds?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

laslen said:


> Hello Sirs!
> 
> I tried searching, could not find a thread that answered this specifically (or it was about the original Lyr).
> 
> ...


 
 Yes. It's also part of the Lyr 1. Here's what I suggest. Turn the Lyr on without your headphones plugged in, wait for 20 seconds until you hear a click (you will hear it without the headphones on), and then plug in your headphones. When you turn the amp off, first unplug your headphones, turn the volume knob all the way down, and then turn it off. Others will be able to tell you why this is the case. I assume it's related to its awesome power output.


----------



## money4me247

liu junyuan said:


> Yes. It's also part of the Lyr 1. Here's what I suggest. Turn the Lyr on without your headphones plugged in, wait for 20 seconds until you hear a click (you will hear it without the headphones on), and then plug in your headphones. When you turn the amp off, first unplug your headphones, turn the volume knob all the way down, and then turn it off. Others will be able to tell you why this is the case. I assume it's related to its awesome power output.


 
 I don't think that is necessary. That was the instructions for people who had the old Lyr 1 without the relay. With the relay, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter. there shouldn't be any way for the amp to damage your headphones if you are within normal listening volumes. ...I would imagine if there was a special procedure that you need to follow, they would have included it in the owner's manual.


----------



## Laslen

money4me247 said:


> sounds like the muting relay. this is after 20ish seconds?


 
 It is after a delay. Somewhere around 20 seconds.

 I didn't realize the muting relay was so strong. I was turning it on with HD650 plugged in, and the pop noise was pretty loud.
 I'm glad I checked before using my LCD-2 with it.


money4me247 said:


> I don't think that is necessary. That was the instructions for people who had the old Lyr 1 without the relay. With the relay, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter. there shouldn't be any way for the amp to damage your headphones if you are within normal listening volumes. ...I would imagine if there was a special procedure that you need to follow, they would have included it in the owner's manual.


 
 Well, the sound is quite harsh. It sounds like it could possibly damage sensitive headphones, especially over time. Unless there's something different about my unit.

 I don't have a way to test voltage, though.. so, I have no proof. All I know is that it hurts my ears, so I'm just doing what he recommended now.


----------



## john57

The muting relay just gives the tubes a chance to warm up. With all of my tube amps I do not plug the headphones until the amp is warmed up. Easy habit I developed.


----------



## money4me247

laslen said:


> It is after a delay. Somewhere around 20 seconds.
> 
> I didn't realize the muting relay was so strong. I was turning it on with HD650 plugged in, and the pop noise was pretty loud.
> I'm glad I checked before using my LCD-2 with it.
> ...


 
 lol yea, i think that is normal behavior. the thunking/pop sound is the muting relay. that relay is there to prevent damage to your headphones.
  
 ...unless someone else wants to correct me...


----------



## Liu Junyuan

money4me247 said:


> I don't think that is necessary. That was the instructions for people who had the old Lyr 1 without the relay. With the relay, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter. there shouldn't be any way for the amp to damage your headphones if you are within normal listening volumes. ...I would imagine if there was a special procedure that you need to follow, they would have included it in the owner's manual.


 
 You make a good point. I am going off of old posts back in the Lyr impressions thread, even when the relay was introduced. People there said that they always unplug their headphones before the amp off, as if it were a noob question to say otherwise. I just followed along lol.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone have the Lyr 2 and Vali with LCD-2 with Fazor they can compare with.


----------



## MisterMoJo

money4me247 said:


> I don't think that is necessary. That was the instructions for people who had the old Lyr 1 without the relay. With the relay, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter. there shouldn't be any way for the amp to damage your headphones if you are within normal listening volumes. ...I would imagine if there was a special procedure that you need to follow, they would have included it in the owner's manual.


 
 Hi, I am not seeing those instructions in my Lyr 1 owner's manual.  Do you think it is necessary with the Lyr 1?


----------



## money4me247

mistermojo said:


> Hi, I am not seeing those instructions in my Lyr 1 owner's manual.  Do you think it is necessary with the Lyr 1?




I believe that most Lyr 1 and all Lyr 2s have the muting relay which makes that ritual unnecessary. if u have the muting relay, u shld hear a click/thunk of 20 seconds of no sound. if u have any concerns, i wld suggest contacting schiit customer support as they wld kno the best. jist share what they say here


----------



## Tuco1965

I have the relay in my Lyr, but I still turn any gear I am going to use on before plugging in and unplug before turning off.  Just old school for me.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Sure Money, you want Laslen to report a response to a non-existent issue, that has never occurred on my Lyr 1,2 or Valhalla 1. You sure you Boys aren't NWAVGUY Minions/Proxies/Lap Boys? Perhaps we should ask the Folks that are part of this thread, the Valhalla Threads, to report if this "popping" exists. I have never heard of any HP damaged by any of these amps, have you? Please provide documentation, heck I probably would accept hearsay, if names were named. Until you can put up anything greater than ineuendo, planting of nonexistent "problems", perhaps you should set up your own thread, and do include Locke Nessie and Sasquatch sightings.


----------



## daerron

Any Lyr 2 owners who also have owned (or still own) the Lake People G109 or any Violectric gear that can offer any comparisons? I'm basically stuck between the G109-S and the Lyr 2 for my HE-500s and would really appreciate a couple of opinions about them.
  
  
 To the comments above, with high output amps its always prudent to lower the volume to zero before switching on and off. I always did it on the Mini-X with my HE-500s and no harm have come to them. Even better to unplug them, then you are always 100% sure.


----------



## money4me247

wildcatsare1 said:


> Sure Money, you want Laslen to report a response to a non-existent issue, that has never occurred on my Lyr 1,2 or Valhalla 1. You sure you Boys aren't NWAVGUY Minions/Proxies/Lap Boys? Perhaps we should ask the Folks that are part of this thread, the Valhalla Threads, to report if this "popping" exists. I have never heard of any HP damaged by any of these amps, have you? Please provide documentation, heck I probably would accept hearsay, if names were named. Until you can put up anything greater than ineuendo, planting of nonexistent "problems", perhaps you should set up your own thread, and do include Locke Nessie and Sasquatch sightings.


 
 dude, you are totally overreacting.
  
 he is concerned about a popping noise that occurs after 20 seconds from turning on and when you shut down the amp. I simply stated that this sounds like normal behavior of the muting relay to me and if he is still concerned, he should contact schiit customer support... lol........?
  
 hey, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but i think you seriously need to be a bit more careful about your tone and reactions to posts. you are kinda coming off as a really overly defensive and you are perceiving posts that are simply a neutral discussion about a topic as criticism/negative feedback towards the product when that is blatantly not the case. no one mentioned the nwavguy 'scandal' or said anything suggesting that headphones may be damaged by this amplifier. we were just addressing one person's concerns. lol!
  
 edit: btw, popping does NOT occur with the valhalla because it does not require a muting relay due to its slow turn-on. All Lyr 1/2 do have a click/thump-type sound after 20 seconds from power-up from its mute relay, which is what I am assuming is the popping sound that OP hears. I am pretty sure what OP is describing is normal behavior and not a concern. However, I never thought that sound from turning on or off sounded like a pop, so perhaps OP is experiencing a different issue which it may be prudent to contact customer support for. lol I don't think any of this sounds inflammatory or unreasonable.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

OK, you were right again, I am in the hospital, post knee surgery and high on Dilauded, I should have taken a few deep breaths and held back the poison pen. My appogies.


----------



## money4me247

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, you were right again, I am in the hospital, post knee surgery and high on Dilauded, I should have taken a few deep breaths and held back the poison pen. My appogies.


 
 No worries! Hope you feel better soon 
  
 I feel that if you try to read posts giving people the benefit of the doubt & don't assume a critical comment or discussion of a problem is an attack on the product, things will be happier!!


----------



## Laslen

Whoa, yeah... No. As Money already described, I definitely was not implying there was something wrong with every Lyr 2. I was only wondering if everyone else's did the same thing mine did.

 I also wrongly assumed the Valhalla 2 had a muting relay initially, and was comparing the Lyr 2 to it. But, I later found out it doesn't have one.

 So, yeah... I might contact Schiit just to ask them, or I might not. I'm not extremely worried about it. I've just had some problems with other brands of amps, and it makes me overly cautious now. My unit works perfectly fine. The "pop" or "thud" is just loud to my ears, so I've been doing what they recommended for the Lyr 1 and plugging in my headphones after it's on for 20 seconds, and unplugging them before I turn it off. It's not really a question of whether it exists or not, because with my amp, it certainly does. If it does exist, I don't care and it doesn't bother me as long as it's normal. If it's not normal, I'll just get the amp fixed. It's not the end of the world.


----------



## kman1211

laslen said:


> Whoa, yeah... No. As Money already described, I definitely was not implying there was something wrong with every Lyr 2. I was only wondering if everyone else's did the same thing mine did.
> 
> I also wrongly assumed the Valhalla 2 had a muting relay initially, and was comparing the Lyr 2 to it. But, I later found out it doesn't have one.
> 
> So, yeah... I might contact Schiit just to ask them, or I might not. I'm not extremely worried about it. I've just had some problems with other brands of amps, and it makes me overly cautious now. My unit works perfectly fine. The "pop" or "thud" is just loud to my ears, so I've been doing what they recommended for the Lyr 1 and plugging in my headphones after it's on for 20 seconds, and unplugging them before I turn it off. It's not really a question of whether it exists or not, because with my amp, it certainly does. If it does exist, I don't care and it doesn't bother me as long as it's normal. If it's not normal, I'll just get the amp fixed. It's not the end of the world.


 

 My Lyr 2 does the pop and thud after the muting relay. I don't think it's a problem. It's not the only amp I've had that made a pop or thud when turned on.


----------



## Rem0o

money4me247 said:


> dude, you are totally overreacting.
> 
> he is concerned about a popping noise that occurs after 20 seconds from turning on and when you shut down the amp. I simply stated that this sounds like normal behavior of the muting relay to me and if he is still concerned, he should contact schiit customer support... lol........?
> 
> ...


 
 That pop is (fast) DC transiant. With Lyr, the switch delay let the amp stabilize it's DC level at the output to 0. However, it might not have the time to fully come down to - or the change of load (from infinite load to your headphones) might create a small period of instability. With Valhalla, that transiant is really slow, so instead of kicking your driver with DC making a sound (pop), the DC slowly goes up and then down to 0, making no noise.  *If you want a pop with Valhalla*, simply turn on the amp, wait 5 secs and plug your headphones, you'll get one too.
  
  
 (correct me if I'm wrong on the technical side)


----------



## Laslen

rem0o said:


> That pop is (fast) DC transiant. With Lyr, the switch delay let the amp stabilize it's DC level at the output to 0. However, it might not have the time to fully come down to - or the change of load (from infinite load to your headphones) might create a small period of instability. With Valhalla, that transiant is really slow, so instead of kicking your driver with DC making a sound (pop), the DC slowly goes up and then down to 0, making no noise.  *If you want a pop with Valhalla*, simply turn on the amp, wait 5 secs and plug your headphones, you'll get one too.
> 
> 
> (correct me if I'm wrong on the technical side)


 

 Very interesting. Thank you for the info.

 I've had the Valhalla pop before, but it was actually after I turned off the amp, then removed my headphones about 5 seconds after it was off and it made a pop noise. Which is kind of weird, because it was off, but I guess it powers down really slowly.


----------



## Rem0o

laslen said:


> Very interesting. Thank you for the info.
> 
> I've had the Valhalla pop before, but it was actually after I turned off the amp, then removed my headphones about 5 seconds after it was off and it made a pop noise. Which is kind of weird, because it was off, but I guess it powers down really slowly.


 
 Same thing as power on. On power off, DC gets from 0, to it's max DC, then back down slowly. So if you remove your headphones on DC peak, "POP"!


----------



## sling5s

Just placed an order for the Lyr 2.  I'm hoping: Lyr + Vali = Lyr 2.
 Vali microdyanamics and Lyr macrodynamics both togeter in Lyr 2.


----------



## sling5s

Lyr 2 compared to the Lyr 1 is so much more detailed and transparent.  Love the improvement.  
 The only thing is, I think I liked the volume knob of the Lyr 1 better than the Lyr 2. Just a preference.


----------



## Ekul61

Could you tell me does the lyr2 sound alot better than the asgard 2.... he400cans. I own the asgard 2 and nit very impressed


----------



## Mark-sf

ekul61 said:


> Could you tell me does the lyr2 sound alot better than the asgard 2.... he400cans. I own the asgard 2 and nit very impressed


 

 I believe you need to provide more detail as to what it is about the Asgard 2 that you find lacking to be able to get some opinions here.


----------



## Ekul61

mark-sf said:


> I believe you need to provide more detail as to what it is about the Asgard 2 that you find lacking to be able to get some opinions here.


thx. Just a little bright... it basically does not sound better than my fiio e12. The portable fiio has better bass. And I like ? It better.


----------



## Mark-sf

ekul61 said:


> thx. Just a little bright... it basically does not sound better than my fiio e12. The portable fiio has better bass. And I like ? It better.


 

 If you haven't run your Asgard for about 100hrs I would reserve judgement till then. Describing an amp as having "better bass" is open to too much subjective interpretation as to get any useful opinions. Providing example songs using lossless or CD resolution and describing the relative specific bass differences between the two amps gives us the opportunity to comment.


----------



## Ekul61

mark-sf said:


> If you haven't run your Asgard for about 100hrs I would reserve judgement till then. Describing an amp as having "better bass" is open to too much subjective interpretation as to get any useful opinions. Providing example songs using lossless or CD resolution and describing the relative specific bass differences between the two amps gives us the opportunity to comment.


thx will do


----------



## TheMarchingMule

If anybody has listened through both the Lyr 2 and a Mad Ear HD+, I assume the latter is still _the one_ to use with Grado 'phones?


----------



## gandhisfist

I bought the Lyr 2 a few weeks ago and just today it seems when the relay switches after the initial warm up I get some DC bias out of the amp into my headphones. I thought the relays were supposed to take care of this problem, now I am unplugging and replugging to keep the headphones safe. I am worried that my headphones could get damaged. Is this normal for the lyr 2 or should you be able to leave your headphones plugged in and not get really loud clicks through the head phones on power on and power off?


----------



## Mark-sf

gandhisfist said:


> I bought the Lyr 2 a few weeks ago and just today it seems when the relay switches after the initial warm up I get some DC bias out of the amp into my headphones. I thought the relays were supposed to take care of this problem, now I am unplugging and replugging to keep the headphones safe. I am worried that my headphones could get damaged. Is this normal for the lyr 2 or should you be able to leave your headphones plugged in and not get really loud clicks through the head phones on power on and power off?


 

 Hearing a low level click in your headphones is normal but it should not be loud or in anyway sufficient to damage anything. If this is not the case I would contact Schiit especially if it has significantly changed.


----------



## gandhisfist

It is just a low level click unless I cycle the amp on and off really quickly, I suppose that's normal though, since power cycling it quickly isn't really a good idea.


----------



## Ekul61

Whats is going he difference in the sound signature lyr2 and asgard2


----------



## Ekul61

What is the sound signature difference between the asgard2 and lyr2. Thanks. .. i own the asgard 2 and wondering if the up grade is worth it?


----------



## Mark-sf

ekul61 said:


> What is the sound signature difference between the asgard2 and lyr2. Thanks. .. i own the asgard 2 and wondering if the up grade is worth it?


 

 I faced a similar situation as I had a Lyr but was not completely happy due to its high gain, and got the Asgard 2 for an audition of about 10 days. With the stock JJs in the Lyr, it  was a tossup. However, with premium tubes in the Lyr, it had a dimensionality that the Asgard didn't even though it was not as quiet. I sent the Asgard 2 back. Now the Lyr 2 enters and wipes out all of  my previous concerns about gain, noise floor and hum. Once again I did use the stock tubes for a while, and perhaps not long enough as my PCC88s and now 6N23Ps give the musical performance more body and involvement.  
  
 Bottom line, you asked was it worth it - to me most definitely, however, I have the headphones to appreciate the difference and the $200+tubes to spend. Is the combination "twice as good", not in strict terms but to me its the difference between hearing the music and enjoying the musical performance. YMMV.


----------



## Ekul61

So with stock tubes it wouldnt sound much better than the asgard 2


----------



## Mark-sf

ekul61 said:


> So with stock tubes it wouldnt sound much better than the asgard 2


 

 I had the Lyr when I evaluated the Asgard 2, but from memory there is a bigger difference between Lyr 2 with stock versus premium tubes than between stock tubes and Asgard 2. I must stress that my review is based on my headphones and the stock tubes from 50-100 hours. I also like as neutral an amp/transducer pairing as possible.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gandhisfist said:


> It is just a low level click unless I cycle the amp on and off really quickly, I suppose that's normal though, since power cycling it quickly isn't really a good idea.




Power cycling is a very bad idea, tube killer....I have never had a problem with the Lyr 2 popping, cycling on or off, sounds like you need to contact Nick at Tec@schiit.com


----------



## Ekul61

So are we advising to sell the asgar2 and buy the lyr 2


----------



## Mark-sf

ekul61 said:


> So are we advising to sell the asgar2 and buy the lyr 2


 

 If you are referring to my response, I am not, as I don't know you, your headphones, your preferences, your financial situation not your goal. I was describing my experience only with my circumstances and preferences. Schiit has an in-home trial policy which should be taken advantage of to evaluate both. I  do advise that this only be done once you have had time to really get to know the Asgard and whether it still leaves you wanting or simply curious.
  
 I used to manage a high-end AV store back in the 70s-80s and understand the "yearning" for the next level that can occur potentially robbing one of enjoying the here and now. My advice has always been that if the reason you have audio equipment is a means to musical enjoyment, give your system time and a chance to perform. If on the other hand you are in it for the equipment and how its ownership makes you feel, then your fun is the journey and in-home trials are a great service. As in any hobby, you will find a healthy mixture of both types.


----------



## Ekul61

Thx but im not asking u to evaluate me or my eqiuptment.. im asking your opinion of the asgard vs the lyr.


----------



## Mark-sf

ekul61 said:


> Thx but im not asking u to evaluate me or my eqiuptment.. im asking your opinion of the asgard vs the lyr.


 

 I had already provided my opinion, but then you asked that I recommend selling your Asgard to buy a Lyr. That to me now becomes personal advice and that is why I answered the way I did.


----------



## Stereolab42

Got a Lyr 2 to play with while I wait for my Woo WA5 to ship, plus some tubes to roll. Very happy so far. Great, rock-solid build quality, love the thick aluminum curved case... second only to Woo amps IMHO. The amp is dead quiet, no background noise of any kind at any volume on my LCD-XC, which isn't the least sensitive of headphones by any count. I have plenty of headroom on the low-gain setting, BTW; high-gain appears necessary only for LCD-2/3 or HiFiMen.
  
 Stock GE tubes were nice but very bassy, even for my tastes. Swapped in Amperex Orange Globes and the amp became much more neutral, but still nicely warm. It's not going to excite you like a $5k amp, but has virtually unlimited power while still giving you that tube sound.
  
 I use 9-pin socket savers to raise the tubes up to make the tubes easier to see and remove. Only problem is the savers are now stuck in the sockets and to remove them I'll either need to disassemble the unit or play a game of Operation with exotic long-nose pliers. Hopefully I've never have to.
  
 In summary: A definite keeper. I will own this long-term as a backup amp to my WA5 (at home).


----------



## FYL941

stereolab42 said:


> I use 9-pin socket savers to raise the tubes up to make the tubes easier to see and remove. Only problem is the savers are now stuck in the sockets and to remove them I'll either need to disassemble the unit or play a game of Operation with exotic long-nose pliers. Hopefully I've never have to.
> 
> In summary: A definite keeper. I will own this long-term as a backup amp.


 
  
 I also just put in some socket savers just now but geez, trying to get the tubes out just to put the socket savers in took a lot of effort.  I have the WA2 and it's so easy to pop tubes in and out. I didn't even think about removing the socket savers but what you said is true, we will probably have to take the chassis apart to remove them.  I'm guessing Schiit didn't really factor the ergonomics of tube rolling when designing this amp.


----------



## kman1211

stereolab42 said:


> Got a Lyr 2 to play with while I wait for my Woo WA5 to ship, plus some tubes to roll. Very happy so far. Great, rock-solid build quality, love the thick aluminum curved case... second only to Woo amps IMHO. The amp is dead quiet, no background noise of any kind at any volume on my LCD-XC, which isn't the least sensitive of headphones by any count. I have plenty of headroom on the low-gain setting, BTW; high-gain appears necessary only for LCD-2/3 or HiFiMen.
> 
> Stock GE tubes were nice but very bassy, even for my tastes. Swapped in Amperex Orange Globes and the amp became much more neutral, but still nicely warm. It's not going to excite you like a $5k amp, but has virtually unlimited power while still giving you that tube sound.
> 
> ...


 
 I've been able to get the socket savers out with relative ease My main problem with the stock tubes is the lack of refinement compared to NOS tubes. I found my Amperex Fat Bottles to have more bass(but higher quality) than the stock tubes and the highs are silky smooth and have an interesting timbre with the socket savers I have never experienced in an amp I owned. The socket savers make a noticeable change in the sound though. They change the sound just as much if not more than swapping tubes.


----------



## gandhisfist

kman1211 said:


> I've been able to get the socket savers out with relative ease My main problem with the stock tubes is the lack of refinement compared to NOS tubes. I found my Amperex Fat Bottles to have more bass(but higher quality) than the stock tubes and the highs are silky smooth and have an interesting timbre with the socket savers I have never experienced in an amp I owned. The socket savers make a noticeable change in the sound though. They change the sound just as much if not more than swapping tubes.


 
  
  
 Could you explain how you remove socket savers easily? i have made tube rolling easier with a set of tube clamps, but getting socket savers in and out has still been a challenge.


----------



## Stereolab42

Vacuum tube clamps are a thing?


----------



## gandhisfist

stereolab42 said:


> Vacuum tube clamps are a thing?


 
 Yep: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765


----------



## Stereolab42

gandhisfist said:


> Yep: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765


 
  
 Awesome, I ordered two. This auction is the same item at half the price:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321533324653


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gandhisfist said:


> Yep: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765




Thank you!! One is on it's way, appreciate the advice.


----------



## kman1211

gandhisfist said:


> Could you explain how you remove socket savers easily? i have made tube rolling easier with a set of tube clamps, but getting socket savers in and out has still been a challenge.


 
 Well I put any tube that has a good grip on the socket savers and gently wiggle it around until the socket savers come out. I don't do it often and I don't tend to have the socket savers in as even though they improve the sound in various aspects I find they add something to the sound that bothers my ears and I didn't have any problem getting the tubes out with my fingers to begin with. My old amp was more challenging in getting the tubes out.


----------



## money4me247

gandhisfist said:


> Could you explain how you remove socket savers easily? i have made tube rolling easier with a set of tube clamps, but getting socket savers in and out has still been a challenge.


 
  
 lol popsicle sticks


----------



## NinjaHamster

money4me247 said:


> lol popsicle sticks


 

 and I've found that if you don't remove the icecream/popsicle first, it makes the sound a whole lot more "liquid" ...


----------



## money4me247

ninjahamster said:


> and I've found that if you don't remove the icecream/popsicle first, it makes the sound a whole lot more "liquid" ...


 
  
 hahaha... but in all seriousness, I've heard the recommendation to NEVER stick anything metal into the amp even when off as the capacitors can have residual charges in them.
  
 hence! popsicle sticks.  yumsss


----------



## NinjaHamster

True that ... plus ANY excuse to eat more icecream is a good excuse ...


----------



## MisterMoJo

I had A LOT of trouble getting socket savers out until I coated the pins with Deoxit.  A generous coating of Deoxit will lubricate and make it much easier to get the savers in and out.  I also use it on the tubes' pins themselves.


----------



## Shini44

Hey guys i am looking to buy the LYR 2 soon, i got X-Sabre DAC and i am a CIEM user, mine is 32 ohms with 10 drivers
  
 if i want a transparent mids, extended treble, and a not so punchy bass that bleed into the mids, but still fun

 which tube should i go for? Amperex 6DJ8 or? 

 also does it have a hissing issues/ floor noise  when it comes to CIEMs & IEMs or?
  
  
 thanks for the info in advance i ALWAYS wanted a LYR but back then it wasn't CIEM friendly :<


----------



## reddog

shini44 said:


> Hey guys i am looking to buy the LYR 2 soon, i got X-Sabre DAC and i am a CIEM user, mine is 32 ohms with 10 drivers
> 
> if i want a transparent mids, extended treble, and a not so punchy bass that bleed into the mids, but still fun
> 
> ...



If you want a fun sounding tube that has nice bass, without bleeding into the mids, and add a touch of detail to the mids try gold lions or if you have the get the telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I have not hear the Amprex 6DJ8, but I have heard people recommend it. The lyr2 is a fantastic amp and I hope it puts a smile on your face.


----------



## Shini44

reddog said:


> If you want a fun sounding tube that has nice bass, without bleeding into the mids, and add a touch of detail to the mids try gold lions or if you have the get the telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I have not hear the Amprex 6DJ8, but I have heard people recommend it. The lyr2 is a fantastic amp and I hope it puts a smile on your face.


 
  
 so far i didn't see anyone comment on the Treble, for me the Treble must not be rolled off,  also price wise i should go with the Amperex, since i don't know if i will like the Lyr or not, specially that i am a Treble Head -.-''  
  
  
 i had WA7 with EH tubes before, super nice warm lush mids, can't remember the bass, but the treble wasn't good for me on it.

 the Lyr II on the other hand is Hybrid right? i wonder how will it sound.


----------



## reddog

shini44 said:


> so far i didn't see anyone comment on the Treble, for me the Treble must not be rolled off,  also price wise i should go with the Amperex, since i don't know if i will like the Lyr or not, specially that i am a Treble Head -.-''
> 
> 
> i had WA7 with EH tubes before, super nice warm lush mids, can't remember the bass, but the treble wasn't good for me on it.
> ...



The lyr 2 is a hybrid and I have not had any problems with treble being rolled off. I thought the treble sounded quite detailed, when I used my Telefunken E88CC tubes. I have never heard a true tube amp, only my hybrid lyr 2, but I find it works well with my Alpha Dogs. I hope this helps you out.


----------



## Ekul61

Does the lyr2 have more bass than I he adgard2


----------



## WNBC

I'm very tempted to pull the trigger on the Lyr2.  I had the original Lyr from the pre-relay switch era.  The noise floor back then was fairly high but I did enjoy the sound.  I still have those Lorenz Stuggart and other tubes suggested from the Lyr tube rolling thread that were the craze two years ago.  Never sold them because deep down I knew I would need them for another 6922 amp.  I am a Grado and planar guy with something like a PS-500e and Alpha Dog/Prime or HE-400/500 planned for the near future.  
  
 Would anyone of you who have heard the WA6-SE not pay say $700-800 for a used one vs $450 for a new Lyr2?  Maybe a tough comparison between the hybrid tube amp vs a tube amp.  Just curious if I should not pass on the possibility of a deal on a used WA6-SE and it would allow me to hear another amp signature.  It is fun to hear other tube amps and I've owned uber modded Bottlehead and Decware tube amps in the past.  Part of this hobby is listening to a different manufacturers.  On the flip side, I'm slowing down in the frantic need to try everything so whatever I buy next will stay with me for a couple years.  Lyr2 is likely a fantastic price to performance amp.  Frugality is now a part of my decisions as I have to think about educating our twins so I'm not going back to the higher end amps/headphones anytime soon   At least that's what I tell myself.  Based on what I have done as a quick read-through of this thread there is no real downside to the Lyr2.  Dang, you can even use it for IEMs now.  Amazing.


----------



## money4me247

shini44 said:


> Hey guys i am looking to buy the LYR 2 soon, i got X-Sabre DAC and i am a CIEM user, mine is 32 ohms with 10 drivers. if i want a transparent mids, extended treble, and a not so punchy bass that bleed into the mids, but still fun. which tube should i go for? Amperex 6DJ8 or? also does it have a hissing issues/ floor noise  when it comes to CIEMs & IEMs or? thanks for the info in advance i ALWAYS wanted a LYR but back then it wasn't CIEM friendly :<


 
  
 You may want to check out the power requirements for your iems. the lyr 2 outputs a massive amount of power that may be dangerous for your iems. it does have low/high gain settings though.
  
 noise may be an issue for very sensitive, low impedance iems on the lyr 2. you will need to check if the amp's output impedance is less than 1/8 of the output impedance of your iems. that is generally a good rule of thumb for distortion due to equipment mismatch.
  
 if you are interested in tube rolling, you may want to consider the less expensive garage1217's project ember (a hybrid tube amp with different gain settings & low noise floor) that only requires one tube which allows more financial flexibility when purchasing tubes (as you do not need to find a set of matched tubes).
  
 that aside, the lyr 2 is a fantastic amp.


----------



## jexby

shini44 said:


> also does it have a hissing issues/ floor noise  when it comes to CIEMs & IEMs or?


 
  
 ok, just plugged my IEMs (Heir Audio 4.AiS) into the Lyr 2, switch in low gain position.
  
 comfortable listening level was around 9am on the dial, certainly very loud 10-11.  can't listen comfortably at 12noon, too loud.
  
 with no music playing, I don't hear any "hum" until after 1pm on the dial.  yes, at max volume can hear some hum but it's not massive.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ with the Lyr 2 set to low, you shouldn't have any problems driving your CIEM's, from what you have written the Amperex Tubes are not for you, they can roll off the extreme treble. The Tele's, Russian 6N23P's, should be good choices.


----------



## Shini44

money4me247 said:


> You may want to check out the power requirements for your iems. the lyr 2 outputs a massive amount of power that may be dangerous for your iems. it does have low/high gain settings though.
> 
> noise may be an issue for very sensitive, low impedance iems on the lyr 2. you will need to check if the amp's output impedance is less than 1/8 of the output impedance of your iems. that is generally a good rule of thumb for distortion due to equipment mismatch.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lyr: "Output Impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)"
  
 my CIEM: is 20 ohm, 1/8 of that is 2.5, which is > Lyr II on the low gain is 03. ohms , so its fine i guess right?
  
 will i always want higher quality, is saw the hifiman E2A or something , and some cheap hybrid, but i don't want something with less quality so ofc i am going for the LYR II

 now i will get me an Amperex Tube, and later i will get that lion one ecc8 that our friend have suggested ^^


 btw how is the Amperex 6DJ8 with the mids? i hope the mids are warm & lush, with nice female vocal sound.


----------



## Shini44

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^ with the Lyr 2 set to low, you shouldn't have any problems driving your CIEM's, from what you have written the Amperex Tubes are not for you, they can roll off the extreme treble. The Tele's, Russian 6N23P's, should be good choices.


 
 does this tube have a warm lush mids too? how is the bass on it?


----------



## kman1211

shini44 said:


> Lyr: "Output Impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)"
> 
> my CIEM: is 20 ohm, 1/8 of that is 2.5, which is > Lyr II on the low gain is 03. ohms , so its fine i guess right?
> 
> ...


 
 Well how the Amperex 6DJ8 sounds depends on the particular tube type as there are numerous different Amperex 6DJ8 types. I have two sets of different Amperex 6DJ8 tubes and they sound very different from each other. Though both are on the warm and lush side with the mids, but one is lusher and warmer than the other.


----------



## Shini44

kman1211 said:


> Well how the Amperex 6DJ8 sounds depends on the particular tube type as there are numerous different Amperex 6DJ8 types. I have two sets of different Amperex 6DJ8 tubes and they sound very different from each other. Though both are on the warm and lush side with the mids, but one is lusher and warmer than the other.


 
 are these good?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-RUSSIAN-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBE-VALVE-4pcs-NEW-1980s-TESTED-/351184524939?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51c43a968b
  
  
 so this 6DJ8 got better Treble right? and no roll off,  also warm mids or?


----------



## Shini44

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^ with the Lyr 2 set to low, you shouldn't have any problems driving your CIEM's, from what you have written the Amperex Tubes are not for you, they can roll off the extreme treble. The Tele's, Russian 6N23P's, should be good choices.


 
  
  
 i went to ebay and all the Russian 6N23P are shipped from Russia or Ukrine  , which will take time, too bad they are not in UK/USA :/ or any other country.
  
 i did contact the seller so he check if he can send me the tubes using DHL or Fedex.
  
 Update: i've found this awesome site: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/6N23P_EV_6H23P_EB_NOS_Russia_3249
  
 ready to order but waitint for someone to tell me if these are the russion 6N23P tubes with no Treble roll off,

 how is the mids and bass on these? hope the mids are lush and warm


 sorry again people for my many posts :<   don't wana order the wrong tube -.-''


----------



## jmissias

I will soon make the request to buy my Lyr 2. Someone uses extenders to tubes in Lyr 2 and where can I order them?


----------



## money4me247

@Shini44,

i was in the same boat as you a few weeks ago. i wld recommend just tryin the lyr 2 stock first b4 buyin any new tubes. u may find that the stock sound is adequate for you


----------



## Shini44

money4me247 said:


> @Shini44,
> 
> i was in the same boat as you a few weeks ago. i wld recommend just tryin the lyr 2 stock first b4 buyin any new tubes. u may find that the stock sound is adequate for you


 
 its more fun than the woo audio which is a pure tubes so i am not worries since i had WA7 + EH Tubes, i also contacted rb2013, nice guy he offered me tubes too, and now waiting for him to provide me with his paypal so we sort it out.


----------



## money4me247

@Shini44, I would recommend holding off on buying extra tubes until after you receive your Lyr and had an opportunity to listen to the stock tubes. Then you will have a reference point of what kind of differences you are looking for in new tubes. Also, you might be satisfied with the stock sound. I thought I would need to get new tubes, but after trying the stock tubes for a week or so, I found that I could not hear any discernible flaws with my set-up, so I felt comfortable sticking with it.


----------



## Ekul61

Can u tell me the sound difference between the asgard2 and lyr2


----------



## Ekul61

Anyone


----------



## MisterMoJo

anyone else having problems with this page?  And the links sent in the new post notification emails?


----------



## lukeap69

I am only having this problem when using Chrome. It started few days ago... So I switched to Firefox.


----------



## MisterMoJo

seems to be better now.  I too was using chrome.  still am.


----------



## Ekul61

Yes problems with anyone know ing the difference between the asgard2 and lyr2


----------



## Shini44

Just have ordered a Lyr II <3  when will they ship it? says on the site 1-3 business days,  how was it with you guys? ^^


----------



## money4me247

shini44 said:


> Just have ordered a Lyr II <3  when will they ship it? says on the site 1-3 business days,  how was it with you guys? ^^


 
 1-3 business days


----------



## reddog

shini44 said:


> Just have ordered a Lyr II <3  when will they ship it? says on the site 1-3 business days,  how was it with you guys? ^^



I ordered my lyr2 on a Friday night and it arrived on a Wednesday afternoon, so they are pretty fast on shipping. I hope you enjoy your lyr 2, when it arrives.


----------



## Shini44

they gave me a fedex tracking number <3 guess going to get in 4 days max,
  
 btw can anyone tell me how does the lyr sounds with stock tubes? i will be using them till my new tubes arrive.


----------



## money4me247

shini44 said:


> they gave me a fedex tracking number <3 guess going to get in 4 days max,
> 
> btw can anyone tell me how does the lyr sounds with stock tubes? i will be using them till my new tubes arrive.


 
 sounds great!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

It really depends on where you live. Everytime I've ordered from Schiit it takes 3 days because I live on the east coast and they use Fed-Ex ground (which is just fine). The closer you live to California, the faster you will get your item.


----------



## lukeap69

I received mine 10 days after ordering it online but that is during Ramadan.


----------



## hybridamp

stereolab42 said:


> Got a Lyr 2 to play with while I wait for my Woo WA5 to ship, plus some tubes to roll. Very happy so far. Great, rock-solid build quality, love the thick aluminum curved case... second only to Woo amps IMHO. The amp is dead quiet, no background noise of any kind at any volume on my LCD-XC, which isn't the least sensitive of headphones by any count. I have plenty of headroom on the low-gain setting, BTW; high-gain appears necessary only for LCD-2/3 or HiFiMen.
> 
> Stock GE tubes were nice but very bassy, even for my tastes. Swapped in Amperex Orange Globes and the amp became much more neutral, but still nicely warm. It's not going to excite you like a $5k amp, but has virtually unlimited power while still giving you that tube sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very much contemplating getting a Lyr 2 for additional power output and wider range can compatibility, upgrading from what I feel is one of the most beautiful OTL amps, La Figaro 332.  With that said, I very much dislike that the tubes on the Lyr 2 are mostly hidden and look to be very difficult for sausage finger hands (like mine) to remove for rolling.  So, your post has me intrigued, what are socket savers/spacers and where can I get some?  (link would rock).
  
 Guessing something like this? http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## Stereolab42

These are the savers I have:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371136795417?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I can indeed remove them with long-nose pliers. I also just got those tube clamp tools from eBay, they should work even better.


----------



## hybridamp

stereolab42 said:


> These are the savers I have:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371136795417?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> I can indeed remove them with long-nose pliers. I also just got those tube clamp tools from eBay, they should work even better.


 

 Thanks for the link and additional info; that's a much better price than the one I found.


----------



## Ekul61

Can anyone give an opinion of the asgard2 vs the lyr 2


----------



## Amalz

Hello Guys,
 Do recommend me LYR 2 with my HD800? or make a noise because the power of Lyr 2 it's so high
 My BUD is $500


----------



## lukeap69

@MattTCG said thr Valhalla 2 is more suited to HD800 than the Lyr 2 IIRC.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^2nd that, tried Matt's Valhalla 2 and my Lyr 2, the Valhalla is the much better fit.


----------



## Amalz

lukeap69 said:


> @MattTCG said thr Valhalla 2 is more suited to HD800 than the Lyr 2 IIRC.


 
 Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate
  
Any recommendation guys?


----------



## Amalz

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^2nd that, tried Matt's Valhalla 2 and my Lyr 2, the Valhalla is the much better fit.


 
 Thank you all, I think im going with Valhalla 2


----------



## richbass

Anyone tried a HE-6 with lyr 2 yet?


----------



## I'mSparticus

I have a HE560 with my Lyr2, sounds great. I have a HD800 coming in soon so I will be able to dive more into it in about a week. I know the HE560/HD800 isn't a HE6 but its a tight circle around it.


----------



## Asr

I got to wondering, since I've never heard anyone say "Lyr" at a meet or show I've attended, how is it pronounced? "Liar"? "Leer"? "Lur", or "Lrrr", as in of the Planet Omicron 8 from Futurama? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Which one is correct?


----------



## jmissias

Hi to all,Someone uses extenders to tubes with Lyr 2 and where can I order them?


----------



## gandhisfist

asr said:


> I got to wondering, since I've never heard anyone say "Lyr" at a meet or show I've attended, how is it pronounced? "Liar"? "Leer"? "Lur", or "Lrrr", as in of the Planet Omicron 8 from Futurama?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think its suppose to be more like "Lir".


----------



## Savant

latimerfripp said:


> My Schiit Lyr2 arrived today, customs in my country are EVIL. I paid about 500 dollars for the customs alone, and not including the taxes\delivery...
> 
> haven't had the time to listen to it properly yet. but I tried it with my Hifiman HE4 and Beyer T1 with good condition- Siemens Pcc189 tubes, There's a horrible hum when turning the volume knob to listenable levels(11-12 oclock) like the kind of hum you get when you try to max the volume all the way... I switched to the stock tubes and the hum decreased.. but still itis way too much hum in 11-12 oclock with those headphones(the gain switch is set to high, low gain just can't power those headphones well) it overshadows the whole music and I can't enjoy it that way.. there is no background noise\hum when the music is off though.
> 
> When I have more time this week I will investigate it further and see if I can fix it easily.. I don't want to send it back to Schiit because it will cost me a lot..


 





 Oh my God! That's Daylight robbery! Where do you live, exactly? I feel for you...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jmissias said:


> Hi to all,Someone uses extenders to tubes with Lyr 2 and where can I order them?




Go to the Lyr Tuberollers Thread, a lot of Folks there use tube extenders.


----------



## jmissias

wildcatsare1 said:


> Go to the Lyr Tuberollers Thread, a lot of Folks there use tube extenders.


 
 Thanks!, Wildcatsare1


----------



## Ekul61

Anyone explain the different sound of the lyr2 vs a asgard 2


----------



## Rudiger

jmissias said:


> Hi to all,Someone uses extenders to tubes with Lyr 2 and where can I order them?


 
    
 You can find it on ebay, simple socket savers that work well (is that I had). Like here.
  
 Edit :These are convenient to lift the tubes and also to be able to rolling them easily, but they remain attached to the socket saver when pulled. Otherwise, the best are on tubemonger.com but they are expensive.


----------



## jmissias

rudiger said:


> You can find it on ebay, simple socket savers that work well (is that I had). Like here.
> 
> Edit :These are convenient to lift the tubes and also to be able to rolling them easily, but they remain attached to the socket saver when pulled. Otherwise, the best are on tubemonger.com but they are expensive.


 
 Thanks! In your opinion is a good investment?


----------



## Rudiger

jmissias said:


> Thanks! In your opinion is a good investment?


 
 Absolutely (for the cheaper ones). This makes the tube rolling much easier, and I think aesthetically it's a plus, the tubes are more visible. Cheers !


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ Rudiger,

I am on my iPhone presently but when I get too my computer I'll post am Amazon link to a pair of tube pliers, they are wonderful and make getting tubes out of the Lyr quite easy.


----------



## reddog

Yes please place a link for tube pliers Wildcatsare1, they sound like a blessing.


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^ Rudiger,
> 
> I am on my iPhone presently but when I get too my computer I'll post am Amazon link to a pair of tube pliers, they are wonderful and make getting tubes out of the Lyr quite easy.


 
 would love this kevin !


----------



## jaywillin

found these on ebay 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electronics-5092-Vacuum-Tube-Extractor-Pliers-Parts-Removal-Tool-Made-USA-/381032967221?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58b755ac35


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jaywillin said:


> found these on ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electronics-5092-Vacuum-Tube-Extractor-Pliers-Parts-Removal-Tool-Made-USA-/381032967221?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58b755ac35




Jay, 
You found them! They are extremely useful in removing tubes from the Lyr! Great football day yesterday, Arizona rolled, Auburn had a wild win, Miss. State still undefeated, only downer was Ole Miss loosing to LSU.


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> Jay,
> You found them! They are extremely useful in removing tubes from the Lyr! Great football day yesterday, Arizona rolled, Auburn had a wild win, Miss. State still undefeated, only downer was Ole Miss loosing to LSU.


 
 yes, and ga tech rolled !


----------



## Ekul61

I have the Asgard 2. Does anyone know if the lyr 2 sounds better? Or the differences


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ekul61 said:


> I have the Asgard 2. Does anyone know if the lyr 2 sounds better? Or the differences




The Lyr 2 is a Hybred, so the "sound" can be adjusted by rolling the tubes, too lazy to check at the momen, watching the Saints game. But I think the Lyr 2 is also more powerful and quieter.


----------



## jexby

ekul61 said:


> I have the Asgard 2. Does anyone know if the lyr 2 sounds better? Or the differences


 
  
 this Q has only been answered 2000x here on head-fi before.
 find the search button.


----------



## money4me247

ekul61 said:


> I have the Asgard 2. Does anyone know if the lyr 2 sounds better? Or the differences


 
 not sure how accurate this reviewer's impression are, but he reviewed the gen 1 versions of all three.
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jexby said:


> this Q has only been answered 2000x here on head-fi before.
> find the search button.



Come on Jexby, I was trying to be nice


----------



## jexby

wildcatsare1 said:


> Come on Jexby, I was trying to be nice




Cheers to you mate for helping those less fortunate in the skills of search!


----------



## Ekul61

jexby said:


> this Q has only been answered 2000x here on head-fi before.
> find the search button.


sorry jex the 2000 times is not jumping out at me.. just the asgard vs lyr.. not the asgard 2.. could you point me to one


----------



## Ekul61

I found one. It said the asgard sounds better..that surprise d me


----------



## 4Real

ekul61 said:


> sorry jex the 2000 times is not jumping out at me.. just the asgard vs lyr.. not the asgard 2.. could you point me to one


 
  
 It should jump out at you since you have pretty much asked this question before, lol
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/255#post_10942733


----------



## Ekul61

Thx.I guess the asgard2 is a keeper.. no w


----------



## eee1111

lyr is too much for hd 600s huh?
  
 im just deciding on my setup and so far im thinking about valhalla 2 uber bifrost and hd600s
  
 but lyr wouldnt be out of the question if i decide to get other cans also
  
 im torn on the valhalla 2 and lyr2


----------



## gandhisfist

eee1111 said:


> lyr is too much for hd 600s huh?


 
  
  
 Personally loved the lyr2 with the hd650, but everyone is different.  There was enough play on the pot for me, even with high gain.


----------



## kman1211

gandhisfist said:


> Personally loved the lyr2 with the hd650, but everyone is different.  There was enough play on the pot for me, even with high gain.


 
 I love my HD 600 on the Lyr 2 personally, especially after tube rolling. It's a relaxing and musical sound with powerful bass and the lushness is so enjoyable.


----------



## Ekul61

I wanted to try a lyr2.. I have the asgard 2.. cant find anyone or data saying they prefer the lyr 2..... alwaytrying to upgrade.


----------



## Synthax

Dear Collegues,How about pairing with AH-D7000? Is there a problem with hum/noise or it has disappeared completely?


----------



## eee1111

kman1211 said:


> I love my HD 600 on the Lyr 2 personally, especially after tube rolling. It's a relaxing and musical sound with powerful bass and the lushness is so enjoyable.


 
 what tubes did you use and how much of a difference did they make to you?


----------



## jexby

amalz said:


> Do recommend me_ __LYR 2_ with my headphone LCD-2 F,HE-500,HD800?
> Because i heard the _Valhalla 2_ is the best for HD800, And the _Lyr 2_ is the best for LCD-2 and HE-500 ( Planar Headphone )
> 
> What you think guy's buy Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2?


 
  
 1. Quit posting the SAME question in multiple threads.
  
 2.  buy ONE of the amps and try it on all your varied headphones, let your ears be the judge. 
  
 3. realize that a single amp may not be the one-true best for your myriad of headphones.


----------



## sling5s

jexby said:


> 1. Quit posting the SAME question in multiple threads.
> 
> 2.  buy ONE of the amps and try it on all your varied headphones, let your ears be the judge.
> 
> 3. realize that a single amp may not be the one-true best for your myriad of headphones.


 

 Let's be gracious and merciful.


----------



## jexby

sling5s said:


> Let's be gracious and merciful.


 
  
 Yes I suppose.
  
  
 is it really too much to ask for people to post a question (often FAQ) in one thread, and to exercise some patience?
 actually await some replies before cut-n-pasting the same Q elsewhere within 60 seconds?


----------



## sling5s

I realize that often times this hobby controls us rather than we controlling it.  And thus the impatience. 
 I'm guilty of it myself.


----------



## Henry Gukas

I'm stuck between choosing with the Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2 for my HD700. Any suggestions?


----------



## Audiotic

You will have to listen to both of them, that's my only advice. I choose the Lyr2...


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'm still hoping to hear some impressions of how well the Lyr 2 functions as a preamp in a fairly high-fi set-up. I'm hoping to use it in my living room setup until down the road I can afford something like the Ayre K5Xe-MP.


----------



## korzena

Does Lyr-2 provide a more open and broader soundstage in comparison to old Lyr?

I suspect my LCD-2 (rev.2) have even more closed-in soundstage because of my Lyr. Can it be true? 

Or is maybe my Bifrost that is the soundstage limiting factor?


----------



## NinjaHamster

korzena said:


> Does Lyr-2 provide a more open and broader soundstage in comparison to old Lyr?
> 
> I suspect my LCD-2 (rev.2) have even more closed-in soundstage because of my Lyr. Can it be true?
> 
> Or is maybe my Bifrost that is the soundstage limiting factor?




I think probably the LCD 2.2 is the weak point there when it comes to sounstaging.


----------



## Synthax

It could be. Yesterday I have been testing LCD2 Fazor with Lyr2 and Oppo CDP and I was very dissappointed - due to it very narrow soundstage, and a bit closed character of presentation (Dark Side of The Moon).
 I do prefere much more my setup: DT150 + OTL + Lampiator L4, much more wider 3D sound - even that DT150 are closed.


----------



## korzena

ninjahamster said:


> I think probably the LCD 2.2 is the weak point there when it comes to sounstaging.



 

It's the most likely thing. 
Also it is possible that Lyr additionally limits the soundstage and airyness/openness of sound. 

I've read a review here on the forum (http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-lyr) written by Asr. Here are two fragments:

"The Lyr also consistently compressed soundstages (depth & width), removing quite a bit of the "open air" element and tended to make music sound closer and more upfront - sometimes even in-head, depending on the recording. "

"sound nearly as compressed & suffocating as the Lyr. Even the HD800 with its large soundstage still sounded almost in-head on the Lyr"


----------



## Liu Junyuan

korzena said:


> ninjahamster said:
> 
> 
> > I think probably the LCD 2.2 is the weak point there when it comes to sounstaging.
> ...


 
 Well of course the big question here is what tubes Asr was rolling in the Lyr, since tubes have been known to impact the soundstage. After looking at the review, he used these:
  
*tubes used on Lyr*: 6BZ7 and 6N1P pairs supplied by Schiit Audio
  
These would be far from ideal in evaluating the Lyr since tubes do significantly impact the sound; also, he is comparing it to a balanced GS-X, which is in an entirely different price-tier.
  
 But I am also interested in the answer to your question if others can chip in, and please don't take this post as defensive because I do agree the soundstage, even with different tubes, cannot match that of better amps.


----------



## korzena

liu junyuan said:


> Well of course the big question here is what tubes Asr was rolling in the Lyr, since tubes have been known to impact the soundstage. After looking at the review, he used these:
> 
> *tubes used on Lyr*: 6BZ7 and 6N1P pairs supplied by Schiit Audio
> 
> ...



 

I tried three different pairs of tubes on my Lyr (although not expensive ones) and their differences with regards to soundstage were minimal. I am not too convinced that tubes upgrade would be sufficient. I suspect I need a different amp so I suppose I will be looking for one (up to $1000). Any recommendations would be appreciated.


----------



## rb2013

liu junyuan said:


> Well of course the big question here is what tubes Asr was rolling in the Lyr, since tubes have been known to impact the soundstage. After looking at the review, he used these:
> 
> *tubes used on Lyr*: 6BZ7 and 6N1P pairs supplied by Schiit Audio
> 
> ...


 
 +1 The Lyr is especially sensitive to tube changes.  
  
 For $50-$100 the Lyr can really jump in performance.  For $200+ it enters a performance range of amps 2x or 3x it's price.  
  
 I had the Woo WA6-SE with upgraded caps before trying the Lyr (I have the 1, but have been thinking of getting a 2). I spent a yr rolling tubes in the Woo, thought I had it sounding pretty good.  Then bought the Lyr, it was just so much more exciting, but didn't match the Woo in tonal richness or sound staging with the stock tubes.  That was before a long year of rolling - with the right tubes it matches or exceeds the Woo and is so much more dynamic.  I would say even larger and deeper sound stage.
  
 I'm using the HD800's with Moon Black Dragon V2 cable.


----------



## Henry Gukas

Which tubes would you recommend?


----------



## korzena

+1
Thank you for your answer. What tubes should I try to get such a dramatic improvement?


----------



## Shini44

rb2013 said:


> +1 The Lyr is especially sensitive to tube changes.
> 
> For $50-$100 the Lyr can really jump in performance.  For $200+ it enters a performance range of amps 2x or 3x it's price.
> 
> ...


 
 got to agree i got the Holy Grail rare Russian tubes , 275$  but they made me love the Lyr II even more, for me the stock tubes are a crime!! they give you warm mids but you lose a lot of dynamics!!!!
  
  some people like it like this, for me i went for the Lyr II so i dont lose dynamics and still sustain the warm transparent mids.
  
  
 oh the cables do change the sound a lot too, like Black Widow and Silver Widow for example, with my CIEM they give me more options <3


----------



## rb2013

shini44 said:


> got to agree i got the Holy Grail rare Russian tubes , 275$  but they made me love the Lyr II even more, for me the stock tubes are a crime!! they give you warm mids but you lose a lot of dynamics!!!!
> 
> some people like it like this, for me i went for the Lyr II so i dont lose dynamics and still sustain the warm transparent mids.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 I love those '75 6n23p Russian tubes as well.  Detail, clarity, depth and width of sound stage, excellent bass and treble extension.  Agree on the cables as well - I'm using the Aural Thrills Audio Silver Braid W/Silver Teflon Rca


----------



## rb2013

henry gukas said:


> Which tubes would you recommend?


 
 I've tried almost every top tube compatible (most of my 1000 post are on the epic Lyr Tube Rolling threads).  The best for me was pretty surprising - vintage Russian 6n23p's. Completely equivalent to the 6922.  It took over a year of buying these, testing them and sorting the different vintage years.
  
 Here are some of my posts from the Lyr thread for reference.  The vintage Russian 6n23p came from two factories the first I uncovered were the Voskhod Rockets
  
 My break down on the different years:
 Post #8606    http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8550
  
 Then I discovered a very rare version from the Reflektor family
  
 Here is my review Posts #1914-1918 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1905
  
 The tubes Shini44 speaks about I call the Holy Grails ('75 Reflektor silver shield single wire getter posts) - as they are just incredible. Really takes the Lyr to another level.


----------



## gmazz

Just got my Lyr 2 this week.  I was running the Valhalla but was awaiting my LCD -3's and knew the Valhalla might be overwhelmed by them.  While I was waiting for the L3's to show up, I played back and forth with my HD650's.  I was pretty amazed by the difference in power between the two amps.  I was thinking there really wouldn't be a difference but the Lyr has power to spare for the HD650's.  Really opened them up.  Not as warm as the valhalla but powerful in its own way.  
  
 Now that the L3's showed up its a whole new world.  The Valhalla was definitely not enough for the L3's but the Lyr 2 has no issues.  Sound is great and plenty of juice.  No regrets.  Now I just have to figure out what to do with my V2!
  
 BTW:  I'm running the Lyr 2 with a Bifrost Uber USB.  Great setup and looks good too.  I really enjoy the Schitt quality.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This guy knows his tubes. I bought a pair of 78 silver shields from him=MIND BLOWN. The difference from stock , is substantial. It's like the music swallowed me ,and I'm swimming in it. Truly holographic. I recommend that everyone take rb's advice on tubes , and seek them out. 





rb2013 said:


> I've tried almost every top tube compatible (most of my 1000 post are on the epic Lyr Tube Rolling threads).  The best for me was pretty surprising - vintage Russian 6n23p's. Completely equivalent to the 6922.  It took over a year of buying these, testing them and sorting the different vintage years.
> 
> Here are some of my posts from the Lyr thread for reference.  The vintage Russian 6n23p came from two factories the first I uncovered were the Voskhod Rockets
> 
> ...


----------



## Yang126

Is macbook pro a good source to go with Bifrost/Lyr combo?


----------



## rb2013

angelnguyen said:


> Lyr 2 is it worst if change from Lyr in real life


 
 Good question. The Lyr 2 has better ps filtering and DC heating vs AC heating for the Lyr.  Should be quieter and less AC grunge then the older version.


----------



## money4me247

hey so for the lyr 2, it seems like its preamp out is muted if headphones are plugged in.
  
 is there anyway to incorporate a switch somehow into the chain to easily switch between headphones & speakers without having to unplug & replug?
  
 just curious.


----------



## reddog

My telefunken ecc88 TK tubes have arrived. I listened to them briefly and the bass seemed nice and the mids very crisp, clean. I will now burn them in for 200 hours and listen again.
Andrew Reddog Jones


----------



## sling5s

reddog said:


> My telefunken ecc88 TK tubes have arrived. I listened to them briefly and the bass seemed nice and the mids very crisp, clean. I will now burn them in for 200 hours and listen again.
> Andrew Reddog Jones


 
 Interesting to see how they sound compared to NOS Telefunken's.


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> Interesting to see how they sound compared to NOS Telefunken's.



Yes, I plan to compare the Telefunken E88CC TK tubes to my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I hope the TK's sound as good as the genalex gold lions, if not better.


----------



## mangler

[@]@reddog[/@]

I'd love to hear some comments about how your lyr2 fares against your Ragnorak


----------



## reddog

mangler said:


> [@]@reddog[/@]
> 
> I'd love to hear some comments about how your lyr2 fares against your Ragnorak



I will compare the single end out of the Ragnarok to the single-ended out of the Lyr 2.


----------



## mangler

reddog said:


> I will compare the single end out of the Ragnarok to the single-ended out of the Lyr 2.




Thanks, I'll be looking forward to it.

I know it's not a fair fight, but comparisons to the balanced out the Rok would be appreciated too. I've got an lcd-x, so there's already the option to run it balanced.


----------



## amigastar

I'm thinking of buying the Lyr 2 sometime Q1 next year, do i have to worry about a Lyr 3 coming out soon or am i safe for a time?
  
 thanks


----------



## jexby

Considering Lyr 1 was around for approx 2 or more years, and Lyr 2 came out this year- I suspect no Lyr 3 even possible in 2015.
Grab it, a superb amp. Get some good tubes and roll on in....


----------



## bavinck

Lol. I bought a Magni about 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure the lyr 2 just came out recently though.


----------



## amigastar

jexby said:


> Considering Lyr 1 was around for approx 2 or more years, and Lyr 2 came out this year- I suspect no Lyr 3 even possible in 2015.
> Grab it, a superb amp. Get some good tubes and roll on in....


 
  
  


bavinck said:


> Lol. I bought a Magni about 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure the lyr 2 just came out recently though.


 

 Alright thx for advice guys


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> Considering Lyr 1 was around for approx 2 or more years, and Lyr 2 came out this year- I suspect no Lyr 3 even possible in 2015.
> Grab it, a superb amp. Get some good tubes and roll on in....



Yes the lyr2 is a great especially if you put some great tubes into it. Check out eBay or some of the superb experts on head-fi, often sell great tubes for reasonable prices. I have been playing around with current production tubes but one can find great NOS tubes for half the price of current production Genalex Gold Lions or Telefunken TK E88CC tubes. The best tubes I have rolled in my lyr 2 are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, that I got from Upscale Audio. I hope next year to try some of the fantastic Russian volstad tubes. Well anyway the lyr2 is fantastic hybrid amp that should put a big old smile on your face.
Andrew Reddog Jones


----------



## money4me247

bavinck said:


> Lol. I bought a Magni about 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure the lyr 2 just came out recently though.




I believe the lyr 2 was released around June 2014, so yea prob wont b a lyr 3 for another year at least.


----------



## scizzro

money4me247 said:


> I believe the lyr 2 was released around June 2014, so yea prob wont b a lyr 3 for another year at least.


 
 Before a Lyr 3, I think we will see an Asgard 3. With the release of Magni 2 Uber, Asgard 2 is just not appealing. The power output is slightly higher for 300+ ohms, but that's about the only difference. I would bet that Schiit is going to release an Asgard 3 that is worth the $100 over the Magni 2 Uber.
  
 Hopefully I'm not showing my ignorance


----------



## Savant

scizzro said:


> Before a Lyr 3, I think we will see an Asgard 3. With the release of Magni 2 Uber, Asgard 2 is just not appealing. The power output is slightly higher for 300+ ohms, but that's about the only difference. I would bet that Schiit is going to release an Asgard 3 that is worth the $100 over the Magni 2 Uber.
> 
> Hopefully I'm not showing my ignorance




Agreed!


----------



## reddog

I have been burning in my Telefunken TK E88CC tubes for about 175 hours and I was very impressed when I listened for a minute. Bass was nice and tight, the mids are smooth but detailed and the highs sound good no Sybilenc. Will write a detailed review and comparison to my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes later this week.


----------



## Shini44

Man the Lyr II with those Holy Grail Rare tubes are so epic , the details on them are super crazy that i was hearing some notes that i didnt notice before,
  
 the bass texture and clarity and speed is top notch, and the mids are so transparent <3 and the Treble so extended and sparkling, 
  
  
 feels like the real Hybrid of SS amp and Tube amps without losing the fun what so ever,  and its never harsh!!
  
  
 its like they took the fun of SS bright amps and the warmth of the tube mids and transparency and mixed everything, without sacrificing anything
  
  
 i am really surprised.
  
  
 for me this is way better than WA7 + EH tubes , because the WA7 is less fun Treble and Bass wise, yet it does win on the Musicality and Transparency , but it does depend on what you like after all, some of us love it mellow with less fun and others dont want to lose the fun.


----------



## rb2013

shini44 said:


> Man the Lyr II with those Holy Grail Rare tubes are so epic , the details on them are super crazy that i was hearing some notes that i didnt notice before,
> 
> the bass texture and clarity and speed is top notch, and the mids are so transparent <3 and the Treble so extended and sparkling,
> 
> ...


 
 +1  Those 6N23P 'Holy Grail' '75s are pretty incredible - the best 6922 type tube I've heard yet.  Better then the '60s Tele E88CC, even better then the famed Amperex '50s D Getter Pinched Waist 6922s.
  
 Your statement about the Woo WA7 speaks volumes!


----------



## Shini44

.


----------



## jexby

rb2013 said:


> +1  Those 6N23P 'Holy Grail' '75s are pretty incredible - the best 6922 type tube I've heard yet.  Better then the "60s Tele E88CC.


 
  
 well hopefully I am in the club of Russian '75 Holy Grail tubes for my Lyr 2 soon,
 and compare in a few weeks time against the Tele E88CC from Upscale.
 roll on.


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> well hopefully I am in the club of Russian '75 Holy Grail tubes for my Lyr 2 soon,
> and compare in a few weeks time against the Tele E88CC from Upscale.
> roll on.


 

 Awesome!  A shootout made in heaven


----------



## scizzro

I'm really tempted to grab a Lyr 2 as an upgrade to my Magni 1. Looking for a little advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Main cans are HE400 / HD600. 
  
 Dac: X-Fi Titanium HD sound card
  
 I've heard you shouldn't amplify a crap signal, and I've also heard that the Titanium HD uses a great dac chip.
  
 So my question is, considering my circumstances.. would I benefit from the Lyr 2 upgrade?


----------



## amalgamist

Does anyone know where I might be able to find impressions between LYR 1 and LYR 2 ? Thanks


----------



## kman1211

The Lyr 2 is noticaebly better than the Magni, the Magni 1 sounds muffled, smeared, dirty, grainy, and unrefined compared to the Lyr 2, the Lyr 2 outputs a good amount more detail, has a more solid bass, more powerful dynamics, more fluid sound, and sounds more 3-dimensional. I can say the stock tubes go well with the HD 600, cant say about the HE-400. You would benefit from the Lyr 2 upgrade, an upgraded DAC down the road will likely be a good idea though.


----------



## jexby

amalgamist said:


> Does anyone know where I might be able to find impressions between LYR 1 and LYR 2 ? Thanks


 
  
 sure, here str imptressions as I had Lyr 1 for awhile last year and Lyr 2 for a long while this year.
 keeping Lyr 2 for even longer because:
  
 1.  quieter power = deeper black background.
 2.  gain switch!  wow, can use Lyr 2 with almost any IEM on low gain with no hiss. and with glorious tube sound.
 3.  pre-outs to desktop monitors.  well, I don't use that feature yet- but will one day.
  
 I know lyr 1 can be found cheaper on the used market, but if you want more headphone flexibility for use on this amp- feel the Lyr 2 is easily worth the extra $. or waiting for a Lyr 2 on used market as well.
 cheers.


----------



## Audiotic

My first experiment with Tube Rolling: 
Replaced the stock ones with Philips USA JAN6922's (NOS), a matched pair. They are now burning in.


----------



## Shini44

tell us how you will like these later ^^
  
 also did you check what kind of sound sig does these provide? or did order any tubes for the sake of testing?


----------



## RedBull

How's removing tubes with Lyr 2? Is it ad difficult as Lyr 1?


----------



## Tuco1965

I would think both Lyrs would be the same for tube removal. That part of the design does not appear to have changed.
I actually find it easy to remove tubes using packing foam.


----------



## money4me247

redbull said:


> How's removing tubes with Lyr 2? Is it ad difficult as Lyr 1?




still pretty difficult. never had the lyr 1 but harder than any other tube amp ive had to properly seat the tubes or remove them. ymmv


----------



## Audiotic

It's REALLY tough to get the tubes out!! Wish Schiit would have had them stick out a bit more to get better grip. Anyway, it's doable, but take your time, don't force it. Wiggle wiggle wiggle slowly. 
Took the opportunity to put my beauty on nice feet: ebony W&M's with Zirconium ball.


----------



## rb2013

audiotic said:


> It's REALLY tough to get the tubes out!! Wish Schiit would have had them stick out a bit more to get better grip. Anyway, it's doable, but take your time, don't force it. Wiggle wiggle wiggle slowly.
> Took the opportunity to put my beauty on nice feet: ebony W&M's with Zirconium ball.


 

 Nice footers!  How much were those?  I would highly recommend tube risers from tube monger - they raise up the tubes for easier rolling, keeps the Lyr/2 and tubes cooler, and looks even better.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
  
 PS I would also highly recommend a little of DeoxIT Gold on the bottom half of the pins - it helps protect the surface of the pins, make removing much easier, and helps with noise issues - as it acts as a contact enhancer.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419003190&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+gold


----------



## RedBull

Thanks guys.
I've heard horror stories a guy break the tube while pulling the tubes. That's one thing that scares me a little actually
I dont mind the tube to be submerged like that, bit at least a bigger opening or something that can be opened or closed while pulling the tubes would be nice.

Do you think using tube saver the tube will be sticking up too much?

Nice feet!


----------



## Audiotic

I will most likely do both of your suggestions. 
And for these footers: an amazing € 59.... http://www.jouwhifi.com/a-21275204/dempers/w-m-audio-symbio-p-1-dempers/


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> Thanks guys.
> I've heard horror stories a guy break the tube while pulling the tubes. That's one thing that scares me a little actually
> I dont mind the tube to be submerged like that, bit at least a bigger opening or something that can be opened or closed while pulling the tubes would be nice.
> 
> ...


 

 There was someone who put in tube extensions.  I guess that's an idea.


----------



## Audiotic

On the Novib's.... Now need a dealer in EU, pref. NL. Or import from US?


----------



## Audiotic

Here's the thread on the extenders: http://www.head-fi.org/t/576755/my-schiit-lyr-with-novib-9-pin-socket-saver-with-damping-base


----------



## preproman

Thinking about getting the Lyr 2 to go with the AKG 7XX.  Does anyone use the Ly2 with any other AKGs - what tubes goes best with it?


----------



## rb2013

redbull said:


> Thanks guys.
> I've heard horror stories a guy break the tube while pulling the tubes. That's one thing that scares me a little actually
> I dont mind the tube to be submerged like that, bit at least a bigger opening or something that can be opened or closed while pulling the tubes would be nice.
> 
> ...


 

 Before I used the tube risers - I actually had a tube slip out of my hand and into the Lyr.  What a pain to get that out without opening the case (which is not easy either).  The risers seem to fill the gap between the top of the socket and case -it's never happened again.  Besides it let's the air cool the tubes better and less heat is trapped in the case, which could shorten the components life.


----------



## kman1211

preproman said:


> Thinking about getting the Lyr 2 to go with the AKG 7XX.  Does anyone use the Ly2 with any other AKGs - what tubes goes best with it?


 
 I use the Lyr 2 with the K712, it goes well with it, same with the Q701. I haven't tried enough tubes on the AKGs to know for sure. I think the stock ones are alright, I do like my Amperex Fat Bottles a bit more though. I prefer the amp on low-gain with the AKGs. They can be a bit too aggressive in the treble for my tastes on high-gain at least on my setup. 
  
  


audiotic said:


> It's REALLY tough to get the tubes out!! Wish Schiit would have had them stick out a bit more to get better grip. Anyway, it's doable, but take your time, don't force it. Wiggle wiggle wiggle slowly.
> Took the opportunity to put my beauty on nice feet: ebony W&M's with Zirconium ball.


 
 Am I the only one who doesn't have any trouble getting the tubes out of the Lyr 2? The stock tubes are easy to get out. My Fat Bottles(which are fatter than the stock tubes are a bit harder to get out because they are harder to grip but not too bad). Though I did come from the EF2A before the Lyr 2 and it is harder to get tubes out of the EF2A(not including the tall stock ones) than the Lyr 2.


----------



## rb2013

audiotic said:


> I will most likely do both of your suggestions.
> And for these footers: an amazing € 59.... http://www.jouwhifi.com/a-21275204/dempers/w-m-audio-symbio-p-1-dempers/


 

 Very reasonably priced - I use an older version of the Ceraball mini feet, but they've become so ridiculously expensive.


----------



## preproman

kman1211 said:


> I use the Lyr 2 with the K712, it goes well with it, same with the Q701. I haven't tried enough tubes on the AKGs to know for sure. I think the stock ones are alright, I do like my Amperex Fat Bottles a bit more though. I prefer the amp on low-gain with the AKGs. They can be a bit too aggressive in the treble for my tastes on high-gain at least on my setup.


 

 Thanks, sounds like a plan.  Now I have to do some tube research...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

You can but "tube pliers" on Amazon, they work well with the Lyrs.


----------



## preproman

Can the 12AU7 or the 12AX7 be used in this amp?


----------



## kman1211

preproman said:


> Can the 12AU7 or the 12AX7 be used in this amp?


 
 No, only the 6BZ7(stock) and the 6922/6DJ8/ECC88 tubes can be used on the amp. The 6N1P tubes can't be used on the Lyr 2 either.


----------



## sling5s

Wonder how Lambert's Play it by Ear compares with Lyr 2.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/746688/the-lambert-play-it-by-ear-headphone-amplifier-dg-review-impressions-thread


----------



## john57

sling5s said:


> Wonder how Lambert's Play it by Ear compares with Lyr 2.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/746688/the-lambert-play-it-by-ear-headphone-amplifier-dg-review-impressions-thread


 
 It is quite different from the lyr 2 First it has 100mW at 32 ohms which is much lower than the Lyr. Second with just a 19v power supply which tells me it is a "starve plate design" the tube is just a buffer with no gain since there is no high voltage available for the tube to fully operate as a gain stage. Both Lyr's uses high voltage for the tube to operate in the way that it is intended. Third there is no pre-amp outputs. No gain switch and just one tube for both channels. It is similar to the Bravo tube amp but with a nicer metal case.


----------



## RedBull

Exactly what i am thinking next prepo. I wanted to drive my k501 with it. Has anyone tried it?

Tube riser seems like the only solution for Lyr
Actually i like lower position tube without tube riser, it's easier to store.


----------



## RedBull

wildcatsare1 said:


> You can but "tube pliers" on Amazon, they work well with the Lyrs.




Any link? I got a lot of whole different pliers not for amplifier tube.


----------



## Audiotic

shini44 said:


> tell us how you will like these later ^^
> 
> also did you check what kind of sound sig does these provide? or did order any tubes for the sake of testing?




After 3 day burn-in listened to some well-known music (Pink Floyd, Supertramp, Peder af Ugglas etc., all hires). Not sure if I like it. Yes, very detailed. Airy, spacious. But grainy. The typical digital graininess looks to get exaggerated, amplified. For me, like the music is walking through gravel 
Or maybe it's just very revealing. Especially the hires Supertramp records show these aren't very well recorded....
Switching back to the HP out of the NA11S1 the space collapsed, the air and roominess were gone. So, overall the Lyr2 wins, hands down. But if the 6922's improved it! Son't know! I will see if I can get tube raisers like the ones mentioned, to make rolling easier. And see if I can get another really different set of tubes. I'll watch the different threads, and choose a nice pair. I found a dealer close buy who either has everything or quickly can get anything. Sheer luxury. Also, danger to burn money quickly


----------



## Audiotic

kman1211 said:


> preproman said:
> 
> 
> > Thinking about getting the Lyr 2 to go with the AKG 7XX.  Does anyone use the Ly2 with any other AKGs - what tubes goes best with it?
> ...




I think I have very thick fingers then


----------



## kman1211

audiotic said:


> I think I have very thick fingers then


 
 Finger size is likely a big factor, I have thinner fingers than average I believe which is likely the reason it's quite easy for me to remove them.


----------



## mangler

Has anybody tried the 7dj8 telefunkens that are on upscale audio? They're half the price of the 6dj8 tele, and if they sound similar I may grab a pair.

I'm using the lyr2 with the lcd-x and th900. Any other tube recommendations would be greatly appreciated as well.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

redbull said:


> Any link? I got a lot of whole different pliers not for amplifier tube.




When I get on my Mac at home I will find it and post the link, it really works well.


----------



## sling5s

I didn't know 7dj8 worked on Lyr?  
 I thought only these worked: 6BZ7/6DJ8/6922/ECC88/E88CC/6N23


----------



## mangler

sling5s said:


> I didn't know 7dj8 worked on Lyr?
> I thought only these worked: 6BZ7/6DJ8/6922/ECC88/E88CC/6N23




I wasn't sure either, even though upscale says the 7dj8 would work with just about any amp that the 6dj8 works in. So, I e-mailed schiit and they confirmed that 7dj8 tubes will work just fine. It sounds like using these tubes could be a way to get great sound while saving some dough.

EDIT: I asked schiit about the 7dj8 again and this time I was told "They’ll work, but not optimally—the heaters will be undervoltaged"


----------



## sling5s

mangler said:


> I wasn't sure either, even though upscale says the 7dj8 would work with just about any amp that the 6dj8 works in. So, I e-mailed schiit and they confirmed that 7dj8 tubes will work just fine. It sounds like using these tubes could be a way to get great sound while saving some dough.


 

 interesting. thanks


----------



## rb2013

audiotic said:


> After 3 day burn-in listened to some well-known music (Pink Floyd, Supertramp, Peder af Ugglas etc., all hires). Not sure if I like it. Yes, very detailed. Airy, spacious. But grainy. The typical digital graininess looks to get exaggerated, amplified. For me, like the music is walking through gravel
> Or maybe it's just very revealing. Especially the hires Supertramp records show these aren't very well recorded....
> Switching back to the HP out of the NA11S1 the space collapsed, the air and roominess were gone. So, overall the Lyr2 wins, hands down. But if the 6922's improved it! Son't know! I will see if I can get tube raisers like the ones mentioned, to make rolling easier. And see if I can get another really different set of tubes. I'll watch the different threads, and choose a nice pair. I found a dealer close buy who either has everything or quickly can get anything. Sheer luxury. Also, danger to burn money quickly


Better vintage tubes will improve the sound a lot. I wouldn't own a Lyr if I only had the stock tubes.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> I didn't know 7dj8 worked on Lyr?
> I thought only these worked: 6BZ7/6DJ8/6922/ECC88/E88CC/6N23


The 7dj8/PCC88's will work in the Lyr1, I don't believe in the Lyr2. There was a change in the tube heater circuit, the plus side is the new heater is quieter.


----------



## mangler

rb2013 said:


> The 7dj8/PCC88's will work in the Lyr1, I don't believe in the Lyr2. There was a change in the tube heater circuit, the plus side is the new heater is quieter.




Hmmmm...I'll double check with schiit and make sure they knew I was asking about the lyr2 not Lyr1


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> interesting. thanks



Yes thanks for the information, might have to try a pair. Tonight I am using the current production Telefunken TK E88CC tubes after 200+ hours burn in, through my Alpha Prime's. Compared to the stock tubes, and my best tubes, the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes; the sound signature is good. The bass is detailed, adding a bit of impact, without bloat. The mids are nice and detailed, the edginess of the stock sound is smother out. Likewise the highs are detailed, no sibilance. Overall the Telefunken TK E88CC tubes have a nice holographic soundstage, where the instruments and vocals are detailed, and natural sounding.


----------



## sling5s

reddog said:


> Yes thanks for the information, might have to try a pair. Tonight I am using the current production Telefunken TK E88CC tubes after 200+ hours burn in, through my Alpha Prime's. Compared to the stock tubes, and my best tubes, the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes; the sound signature is good. The bass is detailed, adding a bit of impact, without bloat. The mids are nice and detailed, the edginess of the stock sound is smother out. Likewise the highs are detailed, no sibilance. Overall the Telefunken TK E88CC tubes have a nice holographic soundstage, where the instruments and vocals are detailed, and natural sounding.


 

 So thats the TK E88CC Telefunken compared to stock tubes? 
 How are the TK E88CC Telefunken compared to NOS Telefunken?


----------



## mangler

rb2013 said:


> The 7dj8/PCC88's will work in the Lyr1, I don't believe in the Lyr2. There was a change in the tube heater circuit, the plus side is the new heater is quieter.





mangler said:


> Hmmmm...I'll double check with schiit and make sure they knew I was asking about the lyr2 not Lyr1




I sent that email to schiit, and this time they told me "They’ll [7dj8] work, but not optimally—the heaters will be undervoltaged"
(Last time the answer was just "Yes"). I guess I won't be trying out those 7dj8 telefunkens after all


----------



## RedBull

Listening how good Vali is, i know i have to get Lyr 2 one day.


----------



## scizzro

redbull said:


> Listening how good Vali is, i know i have to get Lyr 2 one day.


 
 Indeed. Although, the idea of tube rolling scares me.


----------



## RedBull

Actually I do not really care about tube rolling.  Mostly I can live with stock alone, just like Vali, where I do not have to roll tubes.


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> So thats the TK E88CC Telefunken compared to stock tubes?
> How are the TK E88CC Telefunken compared to NOS Telefunken?



The Telefunken TK E88CC tubes are a nice budget tubes that has a detailed, smoothish sound signature. However it's sound signature is not as good 1's the " holy trail" the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. However the NOS Telefunken tubes cost 3 times as much. I would say the TK E88CC tubes are like a 12 year bottle of single malt scotch whiskey and the NOS Telefunken tubes are like a 60 year old bottle of single malt scotch. I like the Telefunken TK tubes, they really make my Beyerdynamic Dt 880 600 ohm headphones sing. But the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes make my Alpha Prime's sing.
P.s of the two current production tubes I have. The Telefunken TK and Genalex Gold Lions, I still prefer the Gold lions.


----------



## rb2013

mangler said:


> Hmmmm...I'll double check with schiit and make sure they knew I was asking about the lyr2 not Lyr1


 

 I've tried many of the 7dj8's and PCC88s hoping for a cheaper and more easily found alternative - they didn't sound very good to me.  Even the PCC88 versions of highly regarded tubes like the Amperex d getter pinched waists and Siemens gray shields.  I mean not even in the same city, let alone same league.  YMMV.


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> Actually I do not really care about tube rolling.  Mostly I can live with stock alone, just like Vali, where I do not have to roll tubes.


 

 With stock tubes on Lyr, I actually prefer the Vali.  The Vali is  much more lively and engaging.
 But with better NOS tubes, the Lyr 2 than excels over Vali.


----------



## rb2013

scizzro said:


> Indeed. Although, the idea of tube rolling scares me.


 

 It shouldn't - tube upgrades are the biggest bang for the buck I've tried in audio. And I'm an insane cable and equipment roller.  For $40 or $50 you can make a big improvement in SQ


----------



## RedBull

wildcatsare1 said:


> When I get on my Mac at home I will find it and post the link, it really works well.




Thanks.




sling5s said:


> With stock tubes on Lyr, I actually prefer the Vali.  The Vali is  much more lively and engaging.
> But with better NOS tubes, the Lyr 2 than excels over Vali.




I see. How much would a reasonable quality tube price for Lyr2 that can excell Vali?

Has anybody compare with C-2 from audio gd? Seems like c2 power is no slouch either. I do not have high current amp to drive my k501 for now.


----------



## mangler

rb2013 said:


> I've tried many of the 7dj8's and PCC88s hoping for a cheaper and more easily found alternative - they didn't sound very good to me.  Even the PCC88 versions of highly regarded tubes like the Amperex d getter pinched waists and Siemens gray shields.  I mean not even in the same city, let alone same league.  YMMV.




Thank you so much for sharing that. I was so close to buying some 7dj8 for the lyr2 (based on the statements on upscale audio that the 7dj8 sound almost identical to the 6dj8), but I'll avoid them and plop down the extra cash for some 6dj8.


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> Thanks.
> I see. How much would a reasonable quality tube price for Lyr2 that can excell Vali?


 
 Even the Tesla ECC88 gold pins that I have makes the Lyr 2 sound much better than with stock tubes.  Those I purchased $35 with shipping.
 I don't use them because I prefer the Telefunkens and Siemens.  If you ever get the Lyr 2 let me know.  You can have them for $25 plus shipping. 
 I also have some Voskhod Rocket 6N23P on the way but I believe there's someone else on this thread who is wanting to sell them for $40 with shipping.
 All good options on the cheap.


----------



## scizzro

sling5s said:


> Even the Tesla ECC88 gold pins that I have makes the Lyr 2 sound much better than with stock tubes.  Those I purchased $35 with shipping.
> I don't use them because I prefer the Telefunkens and Siemens.  If you ever get the Lyr 2 let me know.  You can have them for $25 plus shipping.
> I also have some Voskhod Rocket 6N23P on the way but I believe there's someone else on this thread who is wanting to sell them for $40 with shipping.
> All good options on the cheap.


 
 So different tubes definitely make an audible difference? It's not as controversial as, say, custom cables? 
  
 Edit: 
 Also, I'm curious about hybrid amps vs pure tubes / OTL's. Is it just that some people prefer the sound of OTL's? Is it possible to find a tube that will make a hybrid sound more like an OTL?
  
 I'm just wondering because I own HE400's and HD600's and am trying to find an amp that meshes well with them both, as well as any future headphones I come across. Things like Bottlehead Crack are recommended very frequently for the HD600's, but I hear to stay away from it with my orthos. The Lyr 2 just seems like a happy solution to the problem.


----------



## sling5s

scizzro said:


> So different tubes definitely make an audible difference? It's not as controversial as, say, custom cables?
> 
> Edit:
> Also, I'm curious about hybrid amps vs pure tubes / OTL's. Is it just that some people prefer the sound of OTL's? Is it possible to find a tube that will make a hybrid sound more like an OTL?
> ...


 

 Lyr 2 is a good all around solution because OTL's are more ideal for high impedance headphones and really can't drive low impedance and especially orthodynamic headphones.
 The Lyr 2 pretty much can handle high and low impedance and hard to drive orthodynamic headphones.  Tube rolling helps to match your headphones also.


----------



## toolio

scizzro said:


> So different tubes definitely make an audible difference? It's not as controversial as, say, custom cables?
> 
> Edit:
> Also, I'm curious about hybrid amps vs pure tubes / OTL's. Is it just that some people prefer the sound of OTL's? Is it possible to find a tube that will make a hybrid sound more like an OTL?
> ...




I own both those phones and a Lyr1/Bifrost combo. Does them both justice. I am sure the Lyr2 will be fine.


----------



## RedBull

sling5s said:


> Even the Tesla ECC88 gold pins that I have makes the Lyr 2 sound much better than with stock tubes.  Those I purchased $35 with shipping.
> I don't use them because I prefer the Telefunkens and Siemens.  If you ever get the Lyr 2 let me know.  You can have them for $25 plus shipping.
> I also have some Voskhod Rocket 6N23P on the way but I believe there's someone else on this thread who is wanting to sell them for $40 with shipping.
> All good options on the cheap.




Thanks. Price looks ok for a decent upgrade. I will let you know.
Does any of these tubes for Lyr 2 are newly produced? Or all has to be vintage? 

It's holiday season, i should treat myself, hmmm ...


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> Thanks. Price looks ok for a decent upgrade. I will let you know.
> Does any of these tubes for Lyr 2 are newly produced? Or all has to be vintage?
> 
> It's holiday season, i should treat myself, hmmm ...


 
 Good ones are all (NOS) vintage. 
 I should say though, some seem to think the Genalex Gold Lions are pretty decent for current production tubes.  Not great but good. 
 Telefunken also makes current tubes but they are rebranded tubes made by JJ tubes. Not sure if they're worth it. 
  
 But you have to decide on the sound signature you like or want.  That will determine the tubes.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## scizzro

sling5s said:


> Good ones are all (NOS) vintage.
> I should say though, some seem to think the Genalex Gold Lions are pretty decent for current production tubes.  Not great but good.
> Telefunken also makes current tubes but they are rebranded tubes made by JJ tubes. Not sure if they're worth it.
> 
> ...


 
 Are the sound differences between different tubes obvious or rather subtle?


----------



## sling5s

scizzro said:


> Are the sound differences between different tubes obvious or rather subtle?


 

 Some subtle, some obvious.  Think headphones.  
 Some differences are subtle, some are huge.  
 Different tube makers (or brands) have different sound signatures and within the brands varying differences.


----------



## JGreen08

Is there a good list of recommended tubes with prices and where to get them?


----------



## rb2013

jgreen08 said:


> Is there a good list of recommended tubes with prices and where to get them?


I'd spend a little time reading the Lyr tube rolling thread. Lot's of good suggestions.


----------



## rb2013

scizzro said:


> So different tubes definitely make an audible difference? It's not as controversial as, say, custom cables?
> 
> Edit:
> Also, I'm curious about hybrid amps vs pure tubes / OTL's. Is it just that some people prefer the sound of OTL's? Is it possible to find a tube that will make a hybrid sound more like an OTL?
> ...


I've had the HD800's a 300ohm hp, and have tried several OTL's, like the Earmax and ASL MKIII, my last amp was the Woo WA6-SE. I spent a yr rolling tubes for it. The Lyr has replaced it - just rock solid bass and dynamics. Some OTLs can be a little 'thin' down low.


----------



## RedBull

sling5s said:


> Good ones are all (NOS) vintage.
> I should say though, some seem to think the Genalex Gold Lions are pretty decent for current production tubes.  Not great but good.
> Telefunken also makes current tubes but they are rebranded tubes made by JJ tubes. Not sure if they're worth it.
> 
> ...




How's lyr 2 for vocals? I like vocals most. I read that vocal can somewhat bottom heavy and piano sounds too heavy. Is it true?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. I still have the pair of 77 Voskhod Grey shields. 


sling5s said:


> Even the Tesla ECC88 gold pins that I have makes the Lyr 2 sound much better than with stock tubes.  Those I purchased $35 with shipping.
> I don't use them because I prefer the Telefunkens and Siemens.  If you ever get the Lyr 2 let me know.  You can have them for $25 plus shipping.
> I also have some Voskhod Rocket 6N23P on the way but I believe there's someone else on this thread who is wanting to sell them for $40 with shipping.
> All good options on the cheap.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

reddog said:


> Yes thanks for the information, might have to try a pair. Tonight I am using the current production Telefunken TK E88CC tubes after 200+ hours burn in, through my Alpha Prime's. Compared to the stock tubes, and my best tubes, the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes; the sound signature is good. The bass is detailed, adding a bit of impact, without bloat. The mids are nice and detailed, the edginess of the stock sound is smother out. Likewise the highs are detailed, no sibilance. Overall the Telefunken TK E88CC tubes have a nice holographic soundstage, where the instruments and vocals are detailed, and natural sounding.




How does the soundstage and tone on your Prime compare to your 560's?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

redbull said:


> How's lyr 2 for vocals? I like vocals most. I read that vocal can somewhat bottom heavy and piano sounds too heavy. Is it true?




That really depends on your HP's, that is not an issue with the 560's or Alpha Dogs. Either using the Lyr 2 as an amp or pre-amp.


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> How's lyr 2 for vocals? I like vocals most. I read that vocal can somewhat bottom heavy and piano sounds too heavy. Is it true?


 

 It's all about tubes. For vocals some people like Amperex orange globes.  Great midrange.


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> How does the soundstage and tone on your Prime compare to your 560's?



I do not have the He-560, just my dt 880's, AP'S and ATH-50x's.


----------



## scizzro

Are there any tube extender type products out there that would raise the tubes above the chassis?
  
 Edit: Did some searching and answered my own question.
  
 This guy used "Tubemonger Socket Savers"


----------



## Guidostrunk

Has anyone used these socket savers before? I'm just curious if they're of good quality. Thanks.


----------



## Audiotic

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone used these socket savers before? I'm just curious if they're of good quality. Thanks.



Just ordered 2. Let's see....
There is a thread on it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/576755/my-schiit-lyr-with-novib-9-pin-socket-saver-with-damping-base


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks. 





audiotic said:


> Just ordered 2. Let's see....
> There was a thread somewhere where someone used them. Serach for TubeMonger.


----------



## RedBull

wildcatsare1 said:


> That really depends on your HP's, that is not an issue with the 560's or Alpha Dogs. Either using the Lyr 2 as an amp or pre-amp.


 
  
 Yes.  With the same headphone, some amps projects the vocal further and some amps more forward with more full body. 
 It depends on individual taste, I can prefer the first signature one day and the second the next day, but I generally prefer the second sig the most.
  


sling5s said:


> It's all about tubes. For vocals some people like Amperex orange globes.  Great midrange.


 
  
 As for vocal distance, I imagine Lyr 2 would generally be more closer and intimate than Vali?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

redbull said:


> Yes.  With the same headphone, some amps projects the vocal further and some amps more forward with more full body.
> It depends on individual taste, I can prefer the first signature one day and the second the next day, but I generally prefer the second sig the most.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FYL941

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone used these socket savers before? I'm just curious if they're of good quality. Thanks.




Yeah they work well and makes it easier for rolling tubes


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bought a pair 


fyl941 said:


> Yeah they work well and makes it easier for rolling tubes


----------



## RedBull

wildcatsare1 said:


> redbull said:
> 
> 
> > That is really tube dependent, the stock tubes, yes, good Voskhods, Amperxes, no, beautiful, huge soundstage.
> ...


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone used these socket savers before? I'm just curious if they're of good quality. Thanks.


 

 Yes - highly recommended


----------



## scizzro

Will these extenders work for every tube that's compatible with the Lyr? I'm not really familiar with tubes and their in/out pinning


----------



## jexby

I only roll tubes in my Lyr 2 every month or so, so never had the need/desire for socket savers. feel pretty safe that Jason and Schiit didn't put weak sockets in the Lyr and can handle a dozen changes a year.
  
 besides, if I buy tubes with Gold Pins, i want (for some reason) those gold pins in the socket with nothing in between, ha!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 gold is gold ya know.


----------



## scizzro

jexby said:


> I only roll tubes in my Lyr 2 every month or so, so never had the need/desire for socket savers. feel pretty safe that Jason and Schiit didn't put weak sockets in the Lyr and can handle a dozen changes a year.
> 
> besides, if I buy tubes with Gold Pins, i want (for some reason) those gold pins in the socket with nothing in between, ha!
> 
> ...


 
 Moreso than the durability issues, I want them just so I can better appreciate the tubey glow


----------



## scizzro

So I just pulled the trigger on Lyr 2. Should be here Dec 24th, so I get to play with it on Christmas, and make the same witty Schitt joke to all of my relatives.


----------



## toolio

scizzro said:


> So I just pulled the trigger on Lyr 2. Should be here Dec 24th, so I get to play with it on Christmas, and make the same witty Schitt joke to all of my relatives.




You gonna tell them Santa brought you Schiit? ( it is hard to resist, isn't it? My Schiit is on the table as I write this.)


----------



## reddog

toolio said:


> You gonna tell them Santa brought you Schiit? ( it is hard to resist, isn't it? My Schiit is on the table as I write this.)



Nothing like getting hot Schiit from Santa. I hope your lyr 2 makes your cans sing.


----------



## toolio

reddog said:


> Nothing like getting hot Schiit from Santa. I hope your lyr 2 makes your cans sing.



Sadly, my Schiit is getting old. It's just a Lyr1. But it still makes me as happy as a pig in....well, you know.


----------



## rb2013

scizzro said:


> Will these extenders work for every tube that's compatible with the Lyr? I'm not really familiar with tubes and their in/out pinning


 

 Yes for both the Lyr1 and Lyr2


----------



## tuna47

Is there much difference between sound of Lyr and Lyr 2


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> Is there much difference between sound of Lyr and Lyr 2



The Lyr 2 is quieter with improved power supply filtering and gain switch ( for IE's and very low impedence hp's). Also the tube heater is different, limiting the tube range but also quieter.
Comparing my friends Lyr 2 to my Lyr, with the same tubes, are very close to me.


----------



## toolio

rb2013 said:


> The Lyr 2 is quieter with improved power supply filtering and gain switch ( for IE's and very low impedence hp's). Also the tube heater is different, limiting the tube range but also quieter.
> Comparing my friends Lyr 2 to my Lyr, with the same tubes, are very close to me.




Most of the comments I've read seem to indicate little difference in sound. My original Lyr has a bit of a hum with nothing playing starting at about three-quarters volume. But playing music at that level would destroy my ears. I'm sure the gain control would be very handy for those with phones that can benefit, though. I bought my Lyr about one month before the 2 was announced, so initially I was a little concerned.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone use their Lyr 2 with Audeze LCD-2F with low gain instead. 
 Low gain seems to provide better, cleaner sound. 
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/


----------



## kman1211

sling5s said:


> Anyone use their Lyr 2 with Audeze LCD-2F with low gain instead.
> Low gain seems to provide better, cleaner sound.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/


 
 I use low-gain on my Lyr 2, don't have the LCD2, mainly just have a bunch of mid-tier phones. I find low gain does sound better and cleaner, high gain fatigues my ears and is harsher in the treble making it seem brighter, especially with the K712.


----------



## money4me247

sling5s said:


> Anyone use their Lyr 2 with Audeze LCD-2F with low gain instead.
> Low gain seems to provide better, cleaner sound.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/




i use low gain with the he560, he400 and akg k7xx. i just found the hissing noise requires you to max out ur volume pot (i think this is the noise floor) on low gain but on high gain u reach this point around 1 o clock ish.


----------



## kupleh

sling5s said:


> Anyone use their Lyr 2 with Audeze LCD-2F with low gain instead.
> Low gain seems to provide better, cleaner sound.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/


 
  
 I'm using low gain for LCD-2F, FAD Pandora Hope 6 and high gain for Alpha Dog.
  
 Not sure if anyone has posted about this problem before but mine gives some noise in when the volume knob is between 2pm-4pm and on the max it is silent again. I suspect the noise is coming from the tubes (sometime it sounds like tube cracking and sometime is just hiss noise - like from high gain) maybe I'll try to swap to other tubes to find out. Is anybody experience something like this?


----------



## jexby

kupleh said:


> I'm using low gain for LCD-2F, FAD Pandora Hope 6 and high gain for Alpha Dog.
> 
> Not sure if anyone has posted about this problem before but mine gives some noise in when the volume knob is between 2pm-4pm and on the max it is silent again. I suspect the noise is coming from the tubes (sometime it sounds like tube cracking and sometime is just hiss noise - like from high gain) maybe I'll try to swap to other tubes to find out. Is anybody experience something like this?




If you disconnect the RCA input cables from the Lyr, and put the volume knob in same position-
is the noise still there or not?


----------



## sfo1972

kupleh said:


> I'm using low gain for LCD-2F, FAD Pandora Hope 6 and high gain for Alpha Dog.
> 
> Not sure if anyone has posted about this problem before but mine gives some noise in when the volume knob is between 2pm-4pm and on the max it is silent again. I suspect the noise is coming from the tubes (sometime it sounds like tube cracking and sometime is just hiss noise - like from high gain) maybe I'll try to swap to other tubes to find out. Is anybody experience something like this?


 

 I had a problem with noise/hiss with the Lyr2 as well. The best way to debug this, as pointed out earlier, is to disconnect all the cables in and out. I am using mine as a pre-amp. Then put the headphones on and listen in with no music to find out when you hear the hiss/noise as you go through different volume positions.
  
 For me, the hiss goes away after 20-30 minutes of power up. I believe its the tubes warm up that causes the hiss initially, but then disappears. I also read something similar on the Woo Audio's website with the hiss/noise going away after the warmup with the wa5.


----------



## scizzro

jexby said:


> If you disconnect the RCA input cables from the Lyr, and put the volume knob in same position-
> is the noise still there or not?


 
 I am experiencing something similar, there is a slight static sound with the RCA cables detatched, regardless of what position the volume knob is in. Schiit is already sending me new tubes because I'm having microphonics problems, so I'm going to see if that solves the static thing. If not, would there be something else I could check?


----------



## jexby

scizzro said:


> I am experiencing something similar, there is a slight static sound with the RCA cables detatched, regardless of what position the volume knob is in. Schiit is already sending me new tubes because I'm having microphonics problems, so I'm going to see if that solves the static thing. If not, would there be something else I could check?


 
  
 well if RCA cables are disconnected, you are right to focus on tubes.  or quality of incoming power to the Lyr 2.
 I won't get into the rats nest of mains cabling, power conditioners, and the like.  everyone's experimentation and solution there appears to differ.
  
 in my case:
 if Lyr 2 was on High Gain, volume knob at max, no music playing, RCAs CONNECTED:  there was some crackling in both channels.
 if RCAs were removed, the crackling was removed.
 no amount of changing tubes, RCA cables (wireworld or straightwire), power cabling, or even DACs (BiFrost, Concero HD, micro iDSD), nor adding the Wyrd helped this OCD problem.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 the above happened with Lyr 1, and still with Lyr 2.
  
 only thing that fixed this type of interference coming over RCAs, a second pair of RCA cables and
  JK Audio Pureformer
 in between the DAC and the Lyr 2.
 dead black background now under all conditions, all DACs, all cables.


----------



## Audiotic

audiotic said:


> Just ordered 2. Let's see....
> There is a thread on it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/576755/my-schiit-lyr-with-novib-9-pin-socket-saver-with-damping-base




They arrived. And what an unwrapping party! Intalled, and off we go. Nice!








Same sound quality.


----------



## Michael V

Just got my lyr 2. Should I set the gain to low or hi for senn hd650?


----------



## scizzro

michael v said:


> Just got my lyr 2. Should I set the gain to low or hi for senn hd650?


 
 hi gain wont hurt them. judge and see for yourself. I use hi gain with my hd600's


----------



## Michael V

scizzro said:


> hi gain wont hurt them. judge and see for yourself. I use hi gain with my hd600's


 
 Alright thanks. I'm just switching back and forth right now trying to discern a difference.


----------



## Michael V

Also when I go past 11 o'clock on the volume knob i hear some buzzing and it sounds more like interference. Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## kman1211

michael v said:


> Just got my lyr 2. Should I set the gain to low or hi for senn hd650?


 
 I prefer low gain on the HD 650, HD 600, DT 150, K712, and most headphones in general, it's smoother and less grainy. Never got the buzzing before on my Lyr 2.


----------



## money4me247

michael v said:


> Also when I go past 11 o'clock on the volume knob i hear some buzzing and it sounds more like interference. Anyone else have this issue?




yea, its probably just the noise floor. on high gain i get that around 2 oclock. low gain, i can almost max out the volume b4 i get the noise


----------



## Michael V

kman1211 said:


> I prefer low gain on the HD 650, HD 600, DT 150, K712, and most headphones in general, it's smoother and less grainy. Never got the buzzing before on my Lyr 2.


 
  
 Alright thanks. I had it on high gain mostly. Trying out low gain some more now.


money4me247 said:


> yea, its probably just the noise floor. on high gain i get that around 2 oclock. low gain, i can almost max out the volume b4 i get the noise


 
 Yea same here I get it around 1 o'clock on high gain and around 4 o'clock on low gain. It seems to be a bit better than when I first turned it on an hour ago.


----------



## money4me247

michael v said:


> Alright thanks. I had it on high gain mostly. Trying out low gain some more now.
> Yea same here I get it around 1 o'clock on high gain and around 4 o'clock on low gain. It seems to be a bit better than when I first turned it on an hour ago.




if the noise is an issue, using low gain shld eliminate that from all listenable volumes


----------



## scizzro

michael v said:


> Alright thanks. I had it on high gain mostly. Trying out low gain some more now.
> Yea same here I get it around 1 o'clock on high gain and around 4 o'clock on low gain. It seems to be a bit better than when I first turned it on an hour ago.


 
 It seems to me that it's more noticeable when the tubes are cold, after they warm up I forget about it


----------



## sling5s

It's smoother and cleaner with low gain.  But with high gain, there is more energy and bass gets punchier.  
 Low gain for soft rock, standards and jazz or critical listening and high gain for more rock and fun music.


----------



## Michael V

sling5s said:


> It's smoother and cleaner with low gain.  But with high gain, there is more energy and bass gets punchier.
> Low gain for soft rock, standards and jazz or critical listening and high gain for more rock and fun music.


 
 Yea I noticed that after listening to it for a bit. The bass in high gain is a little too much for some songs haha. I never thought I'd be saying that about the hd 650 but the lyr 2 really does some magic on it.


----------



## scizzro

michael v said:


> Yea I noticed that after listening to it for a bit. The bass in high gain is a little too much for some songs haha. I never thought I'd be saying that about the hd 650 but the lyr 2 really does some magic on it.


 
 I know right, I'm sitting here listening to Knife Party on my HE400's, and I'm hearing details in the bass that I never heard on my Magni.. I'm just sitting here so happy.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I never thought the Magni sounded bright like everyone was saying until I got my Lyr 2, now I can really hear how lean it sounds and the details that are lost on the Magni, and now I agree with the crowd lol
  
 Next up, Bifrost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How long until Christmas? lol


----------



## TeddyShot

How would you guys rate the Schiit Lyr 2 with the 650s? And how does it compare to the Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2?


----------



## scizzro

teddyshot said:


> How would you guys rate the Schiit Lyr 2 with the 650s? And how does it compare to the Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2?


 
 I've never had a chance to demo them, but the majority of the crowd around here seems to agree that OTL amps pair best with the Senny 600's line. That would be Valhalla 2 from Schiit. I thoroughly enjoy the Lyr 2 with the HD600's, but like I said, I've never heard the Valhalla or 650's.
  
 However, the Valhalla isn't the best choice for some orthodynamic headphones, so if you ever bought a pair they might be a bit lackluster if the Valhalla is your only amp.


----------



## Michael V

scizzro said:


> I know right, I'm sitting here listening to Knife Party on my HE400's, and I'm hearing details in the bass that I never heard on my Magni.. I'm just sitting here so happy..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've only had the hd 650 for a little over a week now and I knew that the bass was lacking. The lyr 2 did wonders to the bass, along with everything else. I can't wait for a bifrost either lol. Once I do my tax returns I will hopefully get a bifrost uber!
  


teddyshot said:


> How would you guys rate the Schiit Lyr 2 with the 650s? And how does it compare to the Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2?


 
 I've never used the asgard 2 or valhalla 2. I guess it depends on whether you want the characteristics of a pure tube amp or a hybrid. I chose the lyr 2 because I got it used for the same price as a new valhalla 2. I came from a bravo audio v3 tube amp. It was cheap but it was lacking in many things. Lyr 2 is definitely a huge step up and the tubes aren't even broken in yet. I have Lorenz Sel PCC88 tubes coming in next week. So I'll post here with how I feel about the lyr with those tubes. I couldn't get enough of the lyr at home so I had to bring it with me to work tonight haha.


----------



## kapanak

How well will the Lyr 2 pair with the HD800?


----------



## lukeap69

kapanak said:


> How well will the Lyr 2 pair with the HD800?


 
 Good but not great. I prefer my cheap SS amp Gustard H10 over it. If you have other set of cans like orthos, Lyr 2 would be a good all around amp but if you only intend to use it with the HD800, there are better amps out there. Of course, IMO.


----------



## TeddyShot

Well I pulled the trigger on a Lyr 2 for $325 in "Like New" condition on Amazon. Dear god I think my poor wallet just burned up!

I sure hope it's was worth the money!


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on a Lyr 2 for $325 in "Like New" condition on Amazon. Dear god I think my poor wallet just burned up!
> 
> I sure hope it's was worth the money!


 

 You will absolutely love it! Welcome to the club


----------



## TeddyShot

sfo1972 said:


> You will absolutely love it! Welcome to the club





sfo1972 said:


> You will absolutely love it! Welcome to the club




Did I get a good deal on it though? I'm not sure how much these regularly sell for.


----------



## scizzro

teddyshot said:


> Did I get a good deal on it though? I'm not sure how much these regularly sell for.


 
 Retail $449, used typically $350-400. Yeah, you got a good deal. The only thing is that the Schiit warranty does not transfer to second owners, so if anything happens to it, you're out $325. (Unlikely to happen)


----------



## TeddyShot

scizzro said:


> Retail $449, used typically $350-400. Yeah, you got a good deal. The only thing is that the Schiit warranty does not transfer to second owners, so if anything happens to it, you're out $325. (Unlikely to happen)




If I get a copy of the reciept will that be enough?


----------



## scizzro

teddyshot said:


> If I get a copy of the reciept will that be enough?


 
 As far as I know, no. The warranty is only for people that bought retail.


----------



## TeddyShot

How often do tubes need to be replaced on the Lyr 2? For example the stock ones.


----------



## scizzro

teddyshot said:


> How often do tubes need to be replaced on the Lyr 2? For example the stock ones.


 
 The stock tubes have an expected life-span of 5,000 hours.


----------



## TeddyShot

scizzro said:


> The stock tubes have an expected life-span of 5,000 hours.




How will you know when their getting close to going out?


----------



## Audiotic

I use low for my HD800. Is enough. Saves my ears and HP


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> Did I get a good deal on it though? I'm not sure how much these regularly sell for.


 
  
  


scizzro said:


> Retail $449, used typically $350-400. Yeah, you got a good deal. The only thing is that the Schiit warranty does not transfer to second owners, so if anything happens to it, you're out $325. (Unlikely to happen)


 

 You sure did. I bought mine retail from Schist at full price + FedEx, set me back about $480 plus or minus. I agree with *scizzro*, you should have no problem with the Lyr2 - its built like a tank and heavy as heck. You will see when you get it, you will be blown away by the quality and value you will receive from the AMP.
  
 One of the things I knew needed when I bought mine were socket savers. I love seeing the glow of the filament in the tubes, be it stock or rolled. Out of the box, the tubes sit inside of the Lyr2 with only the top sticking out. I bought these socket savers:
http://r.ebay.com/s1xdUy
  
 Search eBay for this string:
 "*9 Pin Gold Tube Socket Saver For Tube Testers Fits 12AX7 12AT7"*
  
 I got mine from this seller: "*czhstore2013" *top notch. No problem, fast delivery, well packed, and excellent product. Here is the end result:

  
  
 Keep us posted with your impressions once you get the amp. Good luck!


----------



## Audiotic

Ditto


----------



## Michael V

I would love to get those socket savers, but they cost more than the tubes I just ordered -_-


----------



## sfo1972

audiotic said:


> Ditto


 

 Looks good. Are these the Novib socket savers by the way? At this link.
 If yes, I am curious about your experience with them. Because they claim to have silicone dampening in the bottom of the socket, etc. and I wasn't sure which way to go and ended up with the link I posted earlier. These Novib's are considerable more expensive as well.


----------



## rb2013

kapanak said:


> How well will the Lyr 2 pair with the HD800?


 

 I have the HD800s and the Lyr - awesome pairing!  I did recable my HDs with the Moon Black Dragon V2 (nice improvement and tamed that sibilance issue).
  
 I had the highly regarded Woo WA6-SE when I bought the Lyr for a second system.  I sold the Woo - the Lyr - with the right tubes was better.  Way more dynamic and exciting.  I spent a year rolling every tube I could find - both Recs and Outputs - in the Woo.  I had it sounding very good - extremely smooth.  But once I heard the Lyr it was a bit shocking.  No where near as smooth as the Woo with the stock tubes - but after a few months tube rolling in the Lyr (most of my 1000 posts are on the Lyr tube rolling thread) I found the 'right' tubes.  The results were magical.  Sold the Woo.
  
 The Lyr and the Lyr2 are very sensitive to tube changes - so some experimentation is needed.
  
 BTW I did try a pair of HE-500s with the Moon cable - I preferred the HD800s.  Bigger sound stage and more comfortable to wear.  The bass on the HD800s is really improved with the Moon cable.  Sold the HE500s


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> How often do tubes need to be replaced on the Lyr 2? For example the stock ones.


 
 The 6DJ8/ECC88 are rated for 5,000 hrs, the 6922/E88CC/6N23P are rated to 10,000 hrs.  I had a pr of 6N23Ps running in my office system amp for 3 yrs 8 hrs a day without issue and still going strong when I rolled them.  Now I roll tubes often so not much of an issue.


----------



## TeddyShot

sfo1972 said:


> You sure did. I bought mine retail from Schist at full price + FedEx, set me back about $480 plus or minus. I agree with *scizzro*, you should have no problem with the Lyr2 - its built like a tank and heavy as heck. You will see when you get it, you will be blown away by the quality and value you will receive from the AMP.
> 
> One of the things I knew needed when I bought mine were socket savers. I love seeing the glow of the filament in the tubes, be it stock or rolled. Out of the box, the tubes sit inside of the Lyr2 with only the top sticking out. I bought these socket savers:
> http://r.ebay.com/s1xdUy
> ...




Wow that does look pretty cool, but I think I will prefer to keep the tubes tucked away inside to reduce the chance of them getting damaged. I heard tubes are quite fragile,


----------



## TeddyShot

What would you guys say are the best tubes for the money?


----------



## amigastar

teddyshot said:


> What would you guys say are the best tubes for the money?


 
 +1


----------



## sling5s

NOS Telefunken or Siemens CCa (60's for both).


----------



## TeddyShot

sling5s said:


> NOS Telefunken or Siemens CCa (60's for both).




By that I meant in the budget range. I can't justify spending $200 on tubes anytime soon.


----------



## lukeap69

Try Amperex Orange Globe.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> The 6DJ8/ECC88 are rated for 5,000 hrs, the 6922/E88CC/6N23P are rated to 10,000 hrs.  I had a pr of 6N23Ps running in my office system amp for 3 yrs 8 hrs a day without issue and still going strong when I rolled them.  Now I roll tubes often so not much of an issue.


Thanks for the information, I actually thought tubes did not last as long. Makes me happy my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes will last so long.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I said the same thing. Finally took the plunge on some 75 SWPG Silver,holy grails. I can't even put it into words how great this purchase was. My best money spent to date on gear. 





teddyshot said:


> By that I meant in the budget range. I can't justify spending $200 on tubes anytime soon.


----------



## TeddyShot

Are there not any manufacturers that still make tubes? And good ones at that I mean?

I noticed most of the tubes recommended are vintage.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm uncertain of the new stuff. I'll let the pros chime in. The vintage , seems to be where it's at. The down side is eventually, vintage tubes will be almost extinct. And I'm sure the prices will sky rocket for the scraps left over. 





teddyshot said:


> Are there not any manufacturers that still make tubes? And good ones at that I mean?
> 
> I noticed most of the tubes recommended are vintage.


----------



## reddog

guidostrunk said:


> I'm uncertain of the new stuff. I'll let the pros chime in. The vintage , seems to be where it's at. The down side is eventually, vintage tubes will be almost extinct. And I'm sure the prices will sky rocket for the scraps left over.



I have used two currently produced tubes, in my lyr 2. I have used the Genalex Gold Lions and Telefunken TK E88CC tubes. The gold lions a a little warm sounding. The bass bass more impact, with out bloat, the mids become sweeter and smoother. The treble/ highs are fine sounding. The soundstage is more holographic and detailed. The Telefunken TK, compared to the stock tubes, adds a more textured bass, that's gives a little more impact without bleeding into the mids. The mids are a extremely textured and natural sounding g. The highs are also more detailed and thus the soundstage opens up and the details of music more detailed than the stock tubes. But the Telefunken TK tubes do not compete with the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, also One can find some great NOS vokshods for under half the price one pays for currently produced tubes. But of the currently produced tubes I have, my favorite are the Genalex Gold Lions.


----------



## Michael V

I felt like something was wrong with the sound so I took the tubes out and I switched their places and the sound quality is so much better now. I have a feeling I must have not put the tubes in all the way or something because it sounds so much better now.


----------



## rawrster

teddyshot said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on a Lyr 2 for $325 in "Like New" condition on Amazon. Dear god I think my poor wallet just burned up!
> 
> I sure hope it's was worth the money!




Nicely done. I almost bought that earlier yesterday


----------



## TeddyShot

rawrster said:


> Nicely done. I almost bought that earlier yesterday




My condolences


----------



## TeddyShot

I know this is probably considered blasphemy here on HeadFi, but I will be using the Lyr 2 with an iPod Touch and Fiio L9 cable and no DAC, as I do not own one.


----------



## scizzro

teddyshot said:


> I know this is probably considered blasphemy here on HeadFi, but I will be using the Lyr 2 with an iPod Touch and Fiio L9 cable and no DAC, as I do not own one.


 
 Do you have a 3.5mm to RCA adaptor?
  
 Also, your ipod touch has a DAC in it - you can't listen to digital music through headphones without a DAC. Just for clarification


----------



## TeddyShot

scizzro said:


> Do you have a 3.5mm to RCA adaptor?




I'm going to order one soon. Not sure if to buy from Monoprice for $5 or MediaBridge for $10. Schiit says they use Monoprice so I probably will go with that.


----------



## 12kurupt

So close to pulling the trigger on the Lyr 2. Will be pairing it with my Uber Bifrost in place of my Asgard 2. I've spent the last few days reading this thread and it has me excited to try out this amp and purchase different tube pairs with hopes of finding the ideal pair for my HE-500s. If I dive in on the Lyr 2, I'd get the Socket Savers and one pair of tubes outside the stock ones provided, so I'll have something to switch to from time to time.


----------



## jexby

12kurupt said:


> So close to pulling the trigger on the Lyr 2. Will be pairing it with my Uber Bifrost in place of my Asgard 2. I've spent the last few days reading this thread and it has me excited to try out this amp and purchase different tube pairs with hopes of finding the ideal pair for my HE-500s. If I dive in on the Lyr 2, I'd get the Socket Savers and one pair of tubes outside the stock ones provided, so I'll have something to switch to from time to time.




when I owned HE-500 pulled the same move: Asgard 2 trade for Lyr 1. Was amazing and easily worth the $.
You won't regret this at all with Lyr 2.
Guaranteed.


----------



## mtndew23

12kurupt said:


> So close to pulling the trigger on the Lyr 2. Will be pairing it with my Uber Bifrost in place of my Asgard 2. I've spent the last few days reading this thread and it has me excited to try out this amp and purchase different tube pairs with hopes of finding the ideal pair for my HE-500s. If I dive in on the Lyr 2, I'd get the Socket Savers and one pair of tubes outside the stock ones provided, so I'll have something to switch to from time to time.


 
 I have the Lyr 2 and he-500. I also got the socket savers and a pair of Amperex orange globes in addition to the stock tubes, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the setup.


----------



## sling5s

teddyshot said:


> By that I meant in the budget range. I can't justify spending $200 on tubes anytime soon.


I
I have some Tesla that I bought but don't use. They're pretty good budget tubes. PM me if interested.


----------



## sfo1972

Hi all, I had posted on another thread asking folks about their top 3 or 5 tubes for the Lyr2 and am interested to hear your opinions on this as well.
  
 I am just getting started rolling tubes and have only tried 70s Voskhod Rockets in addition to the stock tubes so far. I have been keeping track of recommendations along the way, and my wish list looks something like this:
  
 1)  61 Amperex white label USA’s
 2)  Amperex PQ white label (not sure if these are the same as the 1)
 3)  Amperex Orange Globe

 4)  60s Telefunken
 5)  Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes
  
 6)  Siemens CCa
 7)  Philips SQ White Print E188CC Herleens
  
 What is your top 5 list? It would be great to get the year and any specifics as well to make searching eBay easier.
  
 Thanks and happy new year to all you tube rollers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro. I'll look into them. 


reddog said:


> I have used two currently produced tubes, in my lyr 2. I have used the Genalex Gold Lions and Telefunken TK E88CC tubes. The gold lions a a little warm sounding. The bass bass more impact, with out bloat, the mids become sweeter and smoother. The treble/ highs are fine sounding. The soundstage is more holographic and detailed. The Telefunken TK, compared to the stock tubes, adds a more textured bass, that's gives a little more impact without bleeding into the mids. The mids are a extremely textured and natural sounding g. The highs are also more detailed and thus the soundstage opens up and the details of music more detailed than the stock tubes. But the Telefunken TK tubes do not compete with the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, also One can find some great NOS vokshods for under half the price one pays for currently produced tubes. But of the currently produced tubes I have, my favorite are the Genalex Gold Lions.


----------



## Frepz

Hello all,
  
 first time poster, just want to know if there are any deals on Schiit Lyr 2s anywhere? or they don't go on sale?
  
  
 I am thinking of selling my JDS labs O2 +ODAC for the Schiit Lyr 2.  I am thinking that there will be a significant upgrade when I do this.
  
 thanks


----------



## money4me247

frepz said:


> Hello all,
> 
> first time poster, just want to know if there are any deals on Schiit Lyr 2s anywhere? or they don't go on sale?
> 
> ...


 
  
 schiit doesn't really do sales. you can get it used for cheaper around here if there is someone trying to sell theirs. amazon also has listing for b-stock ones that are cheaper, but none in stock. maybe you can try contacting schiit & seeing if they do have any b-stock currently. but unfortunately, probably hard to find the schiit lyr 2 discounted. good luck!!


----------



## Frepz

I will probably get it from Schiit directly new.
  
 I have an Asus Essense STX sound card and DT 990 pro 600 setup right now.  I am leaning towards on getting a Schiit Lyr 2 because of the tubes.
  
 Is this a definite upgrade? I am reading all the reviews and Lyr 2 is somehow better than O2 +ODAC


----------



## scizzro

frepz said:


> Hello all,
> 
> first time poster, just want to know if there are any deals on Schiit Lyr 2s anywhere? or they don't go on sale?
> 
> ...


 
 Schiit doesn't have any sales ever. It's part of their policy: http://schiit.com/about/on-deals
  
 If you buy it used, just keep in mind that the warranty does *not* transfer to second owners.


----------



## scizzro

frepz said:


> I will probably get it from Schiit directly new.
> 
> I have an Asus Essense STX sound card and DT 990 pro 600 setup right now.  I am leaning towards on getting a Schiit Lyr 2 because of the tubes.
> 
> Is this a definite upgrade? I am reading all the reviews and Lyr 2 is somehow better than O2 +ODAC


 
 If you want, you can contact Schiit directly at info@schiit.com and ask them to reccomend an amp to you. They won't bs you - they might direct you to an amp that costs less, if it's right for your setup.


----------



## rawrster

I think I'm going to go for the Lyr. It seems like the cheapest amp where I can tube roll (where the amp doesn't have that many tubes. I know Valhalla is there but I prefer there being less tubes) with really good customer service and a well built unit.
  
 I'm just getting back into dynamic headphones since I wanted something different so I bought a Q701 at a cheap price so I will use it with this primarily.
  
 I did hear the original Lyr a couple of times and from what I got out of it I felt it was a decent amp for the price and overall it was a warm amp. Is that still the case with the Lyr 2? Also there is a possibility I might go back to the HD800 and I did like what I heard from that combo but I do want to keep price at a minimum since it won't be my main rig.


----------



## scizzro

rawrster said:


> I did hear the original Lyr a couple of times and from what I got out of it I felt it was a decent amp for the price and overall it was a warm amp. Is that still the case with the Lyr 2? Also there is a possibility I might go back to the HD800 and I did like what I heard from that combo but I do want to keep price at a minimum since it won't be my main rig.


 
 I hear time and time again that the HD800 pairs better with OTL amps like the Valhalla. Schiit even displays the HD800 with the Valhalla during CanJam and other shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Eu1LyPZ090&t=3m20s


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> What would you guys say are the best tubes for the money?


 

 So the two strategies are try a few of the mid priced pairs (around $40-$50) - or just go big and drop a stack on the near best/best (that's in the $150-$250 range).
  
 Pluses and minuses with both strategies - with the first you get learn more about what kind of sound you like and have backup pairs.  The second give hours of unspeakable ecstasy - and you just have the 'game over' tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I prefer both strategies - so need to be confined soon to a mental hospital 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe do some research - the Lyr tube rolling thread is a good place to start. http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers
  
 Either way you'll have way better then stock - and alter the sound down the road if your phones change or you just want to try something different.  One of the many benefits of tube amps - especially the Lyr with so many tube choices.


----------



## money4me247

if you want a cheaper hybrid tube amp with similar performance, a bit more features, and easier tube rolling, check out the garage1217 project ember: http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> Are there not any manufacturers that still make tubes? And good ones at that I mean?
> 
> I noticed most of the tubes recommended are vintage.


 

 I've tried virtually every new production 6922 type tube out there - some aren't bad - but just don't compare to similarly priced vintage tubes.  My favorites are the Sovteks and Gold Lions of the new production.  With vintage there just so many choices so the question is which ones?
 If you have an amp or pre-amp that need 6 matched tubes (output matching is very important) - you almost have to go new production.
  
 Fortunately, the Lyr 2 needs only a pair.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Thanks for the information, I actually thought tubes did not last as long. Makes me happy my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes will last so long.


 

 Just say your prayer to the tube gods.  Like on those light bulb packages - where they say expected life - it; kind of an average.  But of course one can burn out in a few weeks or a few years.
  
 I hope yours last many, many years!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Hi all, I had posted on another thread asking folks about their top 3 or 5 tubes for the Lyr2 and am interested to hear your opinions on this as well.
> 
> I am just getting started rolling tubes and have only tried 70s Voskhod Rockets in addition to the stock tubes so far. I have been keeping track of recommendations along the way, and my wish list looks something like this:
> 
> ...


 

 There was a recent post ranking tubes over on the Lyr tube rolling thread you might want to checkout.


----------



## TeddyShot

rb2013 said:


> So the two strategies are try a few of the mid priced pairs (around $40-$50) - or just go big and drop a stack on the near best/best (that's in the $150-$250 range).
> 
> Pluses and minuses with both strategies - with the first you get learn more about what kind of sound you like and have backup pairs.  The second give hours of unspeakable ecstasy - and you just have the 'game over' tubes.
> 
> ...




I would be more inclined to buying more expensive tubes if it weren't for the fact that they wear out after about 3 years. It seems like a long time but in that case I'm better off buying a more expensive solid state amp that won't need an expensive replacement every couple years. But of course that's just my opinion. Experimenting with $30-$50 pairs every now and then seems more appealing to me.


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I think I'm going to go for the Lyr. It seems like the cheapest amp where I can tube roll (where the amp doesn't have that many tubes. I know Valhalla is there but I prefer there being less tubes) with really good customer service and a well built unit.
> 
> I'm just getting back into dynamic headphones since I wanted something different so I bought a Q701 at a cheap price so I will use it with this primarily.
> 
> I did hear the original Lyr a couple of times and from what I got out of it I felt it was a decent amp for the price and overall it was a warm amp. Is that still the case with the Lyr 2? Also there is a possibility I might go back to the HD800 and I did like what I heard from that combo but I do want to keep price at a minimum since it won't be my main rig.


 

 I rolled through 6 different headphone amps - looking to find my 'perfect' mate to my HD800s.  The Lyr with the right tubes did it for me.  I put a post up a few pages back going into detail.
  
 Other amps I've owned: Burson, ASL OTL Mkiii (NOS tubes), Earmax Pro OTL (NOS tubes), Musiland Monitor, Cary SLI-80 (F1 mods NOS tubes), and before getting the Lyr - the Woo WA6-SE (NOS tubes).
  
 Whoever says the HD800s and Lyr/Lyr2 aren't a great combination  - hasn't owned them.


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> I would be more inclined to buying more expensive tubes if it weren't for the fact that they wear out after about 3 years. It seems like a long time but in that case I'm better off buying a more expensive solid state amp that won't need an expensive replacement every couple years. But of course that's just my opinion. Experimenting with $30-$50 pairs every now and then seems more appealing to me.


 

 +1 You make a very valid point.  For me the rich natural tone of tube amps makes them worth the added cost.  No SS amp I've heard delivers that kind sound - not to mention the truly holographic sound staging.  Not staggered cardboard cutouts - but truly 3D point source in a the sound field. 
  
 Have you read the epic 'Battle of 50 Flagship Headphones' thread.  How many of David's amps were tubes vs SS.
  
 By trading my Woo for the Lyr I saved money.  I sold the Woo for over $1000 used.


----------



## TeddyShot

rb2013 said:


> +1 You make a very valid point.  For me the rich natural tone of tube amps makes them worth the added cost.  No SS amp I've heard doesn't deliver that kind sound - not to mention the truly holographic sound staging.  Not staggered cardboard cutouts - but truly 3D point source in a the sound field.
> 
> Have you read the epic 'Battle of 50 Flagship Headphones' thread.  How many of David's amps were tubes vs SS.
> 
> By trading my Woo for the Lyr I saved money.  I sold the Woo for over $1000 used.




I'm very interested to find out how the "tube sound" of the Lyr 2 compares to the solid state amps I've used before, of course I'm also coming from portable amps and haven't tried desktop amps before.


----------



## Michael V

frepz said:


> I will probably get it from Schiit directly new.
> 
> I have an Asus Essense STX sound card and DT 990 pro 600 setup right now.  I am leaning towards on getting a Schiit Lyr 2 because of the tubes.
> 
> Is this a definite upgrade? I am reading all the reviews and Lyr 2 is somehow better than O2 +ODAC


 
 I'm running the xonar stx with my lyr 2 right now. Definitely a huge upgrade over the bravo audio v3 tube amp I was using before. It's still getting so much better as the tubes are burning in too.


----------



## rawrster

rb2013 said:


> I rolled through 6 different headphone amps - looking to find my 'perfect' mate to my HD800s.  The Lyr with the right tubes did it for me.  I put a post up a few pages back going into detail.
> 
> Other amps I've owned: Burson, ASL OTL Mkiii (NOS tubes), Earmax Pro OTL (NOS tubes), Musiland Monitor, Cary SLI-80 (F1 mods NOS tubes), and before getting the Lyr - the Woo WA6-SE (NOS tubes).
> 
> Whoever says the HD800s and Lyr/Lyr2 aren't a great combination  - hasn't owned them.




Thanks for your input. I figured the hd800 would be fine however that's definitely something that won't happen anytime soon. I'm just open to the idea of the hd800. It sounds like tube rolling is another monster in this hobby but this seems to be an economical way to do it. It's a hood thing there's a lyr rolling thread to give me something to read up on.


----------



## 12kurupt

mtndew23 said:


> I have the Lyr 2 and he-500. I also got the socket savers and a pair of Amperex orange globes in addition to the stock tubes, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the setup.


 

 have you tried any other tubes? I'm seeing a few of those orange globes on eBay, but I'm also considering some matsu****a/philips PCC88/7dj8 (not sure if those are compatible with the lyr 2 though). If I can grab those, I'd likely get those 2 pairs. If not, I'll likely just get 1 pair of the orange globes or maybe the golden lions, as I don't want to break the bank with all these purchases I'm going to be making all at once.


----------



## mtndew23

12kurupt said:


> have you tried any other tubes? I'm seeing a few of those orange globes on eBay, but I'm also considering some matsu****a/philips PCC88/7dj8 (not sure if those are compatible with the lyr 2 though). If I can grab those, I'd likely get those 2 pairs. If not, I'll likely just get 1 pair of the orange globes or maybe the golden lions, as I don't want to break the bank with all these purchases I'm going to be making all at once.


 
 I actually haven't tried any others so far, but I intended to order the matsu****as and the gold lions. However, I ordered the orange globes first, and once I heard them I was pleased enough that I didn't feel the need to order any others. I'm definitely going to order more orange globes when these die. Sorry I can't be more helpful. If you get the orange globes and one of the others, I'd love to know what you think of them.


----------



## 12kurupt

mtndew23 said:


> I actually haven't tried any others so far, but I intended to order the matsu****as and the gold lions. However, I ordered the orange globes first, and once I heard them I was pleased enough that I didn't feel the need to order any others. I'm definitely going to order more orange globes when these die. Sorry I can't be more helpful. If you get the orange globes and one of the others, I'd love to know what you think of them.


 
 Picked up a pair of orange globes. I feel most comfortable picking up that pair as you have the same setup as me. I'll look into getting the others after trying out this pair and the lyr 2 for the first time. Thanks for your help!


----------



## mtndew23

12kurupt said:


> Picked up a pair of orange globes. I feel most comfortable picking up that pair as you have the same setup as me. I'll look into getting the others after trying out this pair and the lyr 2 for the first time. Thanks for your help!


 
 You're welcome. Hope you enjoy them!


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> Thanks for your input. I figured the hd800 would be fine however that's definitely something that won't happen anytime soon. I'm just open to the idea of the hd800. It sounds like tube rolling is another monster in this hobby but this seems to be an economical way to do it. It's a hood thing there's a lyr rolling thread to give me something to read up on.


 

 I upgraded the chord to the Moon Black Dragon V2 - that was a nice improvement to the HD800s.  Not cheap but in the long run a great investment.  It kept all the things I love about the HD800 like the detail, speed, transparency, and monster sound stage - but cured the slight sibilance issue and added more tonal richness.  Really helped the bass too - deeper and tighter - still with that excellent natural tone David Mahler mentioned in his epic '58' review.  With this cable the HD800s may have moved up from #6 of 58 to maybe #4 or #5.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> There was a recent post ranking tubes over on the Lyr tube rolling thread you might want to checkout.


 

 Thanks Bob. I will check it out on the other thread.


----------



## TeddyShot

rb2013 said:


> There was a recent post ranking tubes over on the Lyr tube rolling thread you might want to checkout.




Can you direct me to the post number? I started looking at that thread with posts starting on August, since I'm mainly interested in finding information on what sounds best with the Lyr 2.


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> Can you direct me to the post number? I started looking at that thread with posts starting on August, since I'm mainly interested in finding information on what sounds best with the Lyr 2.


 

 Hi TeddyShot, here is the link:
post #4355
  
 Its Post 4355 on page 291 by satwilson.
 Have fun.


----------



## TeddyShot

sfo1972 said:


> Hi TeddyShot, here is the link:
> post #4355
> 
> Its Post 4355 on page 291 by satwilson
> ...




Thanks


----------



## TeddyShot

Something I haven't seen discussed on this thread is how good the Lyr 2 is with gaming (or movies for that matter). I know that's largely dependent on the headphones used, but does this amp compliment them well in this aspect? And what about different tube combinations?


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> Can you direct me to the post number? I started looking at that thread with posts starting on August, since I'm mainly interested in finding information on what sounds best with the Lyr 2.


 

 Sure, it was just a couple of days ago - it's on page 292 - post #4355 by SatWilson
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4350
  
 PS Sorry for the dup (I read these threads backwards last to first) - didn't see SFO already posted - good review.


----------



## TeddyShot

I need to get an extension cord for my Lyr 2. But I've heard that ground loops or something (I'm not familiar with this yet) can cause static or hissing when listening on the amp. So I'm not sure if I should get a an extension cable to bring my old Belkin power tap closer or buy a regular extension cable and use that to connect my Lyr 2.

I turns out I won't be needing any of that, I'm just going to rearrange my room's furniture. However is it recommended I get a surge protector instead of plugging the Lyr 2 directly into the outlet? Not just for safety, I mean for static or hissing. I'm looking to get a Monoprice surge protector.


----------



## Michael V

teddyshot said:


> I need to get an extension cord for my Lyr 2. But I've heard that ground loops or something (I'm not familiar with this yet) can cause static or hissing when listening on the amp. So I'm not sure if I should get a an extension cable to bring my old Belkin power tap closer or buy a regular extension cable and use that to connect my Lyr 2.
> 
> I turns out I won't be needing any of that, I'm just going to rearrange my room's furniture. However is it recommended I get a surge protector instead of plugging the Lyr 2 directly into the outlet? Not just for safety, I mean for static or hissing. I'm looking to get a Monoprice surge protector.


 
 I tried plugging in the lyr2 to a surge protector and to the wall and didn't notice any difference. I think you would need a power conditioner if you are experiencing any static or hissing. I'm using an audioquest nrg-x3 power cable hooked up to the lyr. I haven't tried the cable the lyr came with but the lyr seems to be perfect with the audioquest one. It's an expensive cable but I've had it for years and used it with multiple products. I only get slight noise at high volumes and that's just because of interference from all the electronics near me and the tubes are picking it up.


----------



## zach915m

I found that those monster surge protectors work great as noise conditioners for amps. They are 50 bucks or so on Amazon. Just get the one that states "clean power." Any time I have had an issue from an outlet that has cleaned it right up.


----------



## kman1211

zach915m said:


> I found that those monster surge protectors work great as noise conditioners for amps. They are 50 bucks or so on Amazon. Just get the one that states "clean power." Any time I have had an issue from an outlet that has cleaned it right up.




The $50 Furman power conditioners work as well.


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> I need to get an extension cord for my Lyr 2. But I've heard that ground loops or something (I'm not familiar with this yet) can cause static or hissing when listening on the amp. So I'm not sure if I should get a an extension cable to bring my old Belkin power tap closer or buy a regular extension cable and use that to connect my Lyr 2.
> 
> I turns out I won't be needing any of that, I'm just going to rearrange my room's furniture. However is it recommended I get a surge protector instead of plugging the Lyr 2 directly into the outlet? Not just for safety, I mean for static or hissing. I'm looking to get a Monoprice surge protector.


 

 Ground loops almost always present as a low level hum.  You can get grunge from the power coming into your house from electrical pollution fed back into the power system by such things as electric motors (ever notice a low level buzzing sound in your audio system when your neighbor is using his power saw), computers themselves can be a source of grunge, and switching power supplies.  You can also pick you RFI (radio frequency interference) from high power lines and radio communications (I live by an Air force base).
  
 Tubes themselves can produce two types of noise - a hissing sound (occasioned by pops, sometimes referred to as 'tube rush'.  Every tube has a little - you just should not be able to hear it with no source at normal to high vol.  If you crank the vol to max you will hear some (don't ever do this!  If a tube failed or a source sound entered - you could destroy your hearing and headphones!).  The other kind of noise is called micro-phonics - it's a kind of ringing sound - like a 'ting'.  It's cause by mechanical feedback in the tube from some kind of vibration.  Usually the biggest source is just the flipping of the on/off switch.  Your tubes should not have any of this.  The thing about micro-phonics, it's an interaction between tube and equipment.  So the same tube maybe micro-phonic in one piece of gear and not in another.  In my experience the Lyr's are somewhat susceptible to micro-phonics.
  
 The solution to each is a little different.


----------



## sling5s

I have several questions about the Lyr 2:
  
 1. Can you switch gain while amp is on and playing music?  Turn off or just lower volumes
 2. Which gain setting (low or high) when using Lyr 2 as preamp?  If low, at what volume position? If high, at what volume position?
 3. Sometimes one of the channel cuts out. Most of the time it's ok. Its not the the headphone cable because it does it with several headphones.  I checked the RCA on the back. It’s as if the headphone plug is not fully connecting sometimes.


----------



## Audiotic

sling5s said:


> I have several questions about the Lyr 2: 1. Can you switch gain while amp is on and playing music? Turn off or just lower volumes2. Which gain setting (low or high) when using Lyr 2 as preamp? If low, at what volume position? If high, at what volume position?3. Sometimes one of the channel cuts out. Most of the time it's ok. Its not the the headphone cable because it does it with several headphones. I checked the RCA on the back. It’s as if the headphone plug is not fully connecting sometimes.



1. Yes, just switch 
2. Low for my HD800
3. Never had that. Sure it's your Lyr? What if you use another plug? I mean an extension cable e.g.?


----------



## sling5s

audiotic said:


> 1. Yes, just switch
> 2. Low for my HD800
> 3. Never had that. Sure it's your Lyr? What if you use another plug? I mean an extension cable e.g.?


 

 2. Not headphone but gain when using as "preamp" to stereo and speakers. high or low gain? and what position.


----------



## Audiotic

sling5s said:


> 2. Not headphone but gain when using as "preamp" to stereo and speakers. high or low gain? and what position.



You don't mean the gain switch at the back (which I put to low)?


----------



## TeddyShot

sling5s said:


> I have several questions about the Lyr 2:
> 
> 1. Can you switch gain while amp is on and playing music?  Turn off or just lower volumes
> 2. Which gain setting (low or high) when using Lyr 2 as preamp?  If low, at what volume position? If high, at what volume position?
> 3. Sometimes one of the channel cuts out. Most of the time it's ok. Its not the the headphone cable because it does it with several headphones.  I checked the RCA on the back. It’s as if the headphone plug is not fully connecting sometimes.




1. You should probably lower the volume to 0 to not damage your headphones or hearing. 
2. You can use any gain setting you want when using it as a preamp as the volume knob controls the output of volume.
3. You should probably contact Schiit about this since they most likely know more about this than anyone here.


----------



## JohnBal

sling5s said:


> I have several questions about the Lyr 2:
> 
> 1. Can you switch gain while amp is on and playing music?  Turn off or just lower volumes
> 2. Which gain setting (low or high) when using Lyr 2 as preamp?  If low, at what volume position? If high, at what volume position?
> 3. Sometimes one of the channel cuts out. Most of the time it's ok. Its not the the headphone cable because it does it with several headphones.  I checked the RCA on the back. It’s as if the headphone plug is not fully connecting sometimes.




For 3- I would try to remove and reseat the tubes. Sometimes a tube that is not making good contact will give symptoms as you are having.


----------



## sling5s

I guess Schiit recommends using low gain for preamp use.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Sorry, I meant to respond to your question....the Lyr 2's preamp out works in both high and low gain, but low gain sounds much better, at least in my case. I am using a Lyr 2 as a HP Amp, and as a preamp to a B & K 125.2 as a very powerful HP amp.


----------



## TeddyShot

Can anyone tell me how long the stock Lyr 2 power cable is? I can't find any measurements on Schiit.com.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Teddy,
  
 It's removable, so you can use any length you want too, the one that comes with the Unit is 5".


----------



## jexby

teddyshot said:


> Can anyone tell me how long the stock Lyr 2 power cable is? I can't find any measurements on Schiit.com.




Are you considering some 3rd party audiophile power cable for the Lyr 2?
For any specific reason?


----------



## TeddyShot

jexby said:


> Are you considering some 3rd party audiophile power cable for the Lyr 2?
> For any specific reason?




No it's just that I like to listen to music while in bed. The only problem is that an outlet is 10 feet away from my bed, and I want to put the amplifier on a small cabinet next to the bed.


----------



## TeddyShot

wildcatsare1 said:


> Teddy,
> 
> It's removable, so you can use any length you want too, the one that comes with the Unit is 5".




5 inches? Wow that's awfully short.


----------



## Pirakaphile

teddyshot said:


> 5 inches? Wow that's awfully short.



.. Not in asia. (Don't hit me)

And 5 feet, not inches.


----------



## sfo1972

sling5s said:


> I have several questions about the Lyr 2:
> 
> 1. Can you switch gain while amp is on and playing music?  Turn off or just lower volumes
> 2. Which gain setting (low or high) when using Lyr 2 as preamp?  If low, at what volume position? If high, at what volume position?
> 3. Sometimes one of the channel cuts out. Most of the time it's ok. Its not the the headphone cable because it does it with several headphones.  I checked the RCA on the back. It’s as if the headphone plug is not fully connecting sometimes.


 

 1. You can switch the gain between low and high while the amp is on. I recommend stopping the music, lowering the volume, then switch the gain.
 2. Low for pre-amp, volume to 3 o'clock or all the way. You need to see what works for you. Schiit tech suggested low gain at full volume for pre-amp.
 3. I believe someone gave you a suggestion about resetting the tubes.
  
 good luck


----------



## TeddyShot

pirakaphile said:


> .. Not in asia. (Don't hit me)
> 
> And 5 feet, not inches.




Damnit I just bought a 15 foot extension cable because of this :mad: 

And 5 feet is written as 5' by the way


----------



## Pirakaphile

teddyshot said:


> Damnit I just bought a 15 foot extension cable because of this :mad:
> 
> And 5 feet is written as 5' by the way



You'll be cool dude, just make a little gizmo for it so you can strap it on your back an' walk around the house with it.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Sorry, 5 feet....


----------



## sling5s

thanks everyone


----------



## Wildcatsare1

pirakaphile said:


> You'll be cool dude, just make a little gizmo for it so you can strap it on your back an' walk around the house with it.


 

 Headphone Cable extension, Grado makes a nice 15", er...15' one.......


----------



## reddog

My Alpha Prime's sound so bloody good with the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I was listening to Republican , on Frank Zappa's Guitar, and the instrumentation is lush and detailed and the bass is ever so nice. Overall these tubes make the soundstage very three-dimensional/ holographic. The lyr 2 is a fantastic hybrid amp, that is perfect for driving orthodynamic cans. I now understand why people search for that best tube like synergy, that makes the music come alive..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol 





teddyshot said:


> Damnit I just bought a 15 foot extension cable because of this :mad:
> 
> And 5 feet is written as 5' by the way


----------



## toolio

guidostrunk said:


> Lol




Where i come from it's written as 1.52 meters


----------



## TeddyShot

I tried to cancel the extension cable form Monoprice.com but they have the worst Custumer service I've seen in a while. I emailed them immedietly after making the order and they never cancalled it. Apparently you can only cancel items if they are purchased during custumer service hours, but the item hasn't even shipped yet! Oh well now I have to pay $11 for a cable that I don't need, next time I'm purchasing directly from Amazon.


----------



## meusickfrek

If you are on the fence about buying a Lyr 2, the preamp function is definitely something to take into consideration.  I have a set of monitor audio Silver 6 speakers with 120 RMS watts per speaker and 91 db sensitivity powered by a Denon 1910 receiver with 90 watts RMS/channel.  Yes a modest system but decent speakers, with this system the sound was pretty good, I was recently thinking of an amp upgrade until I bought the Lyr 2 with Uber Bitfrost.  I now have a completely different system, the Silver 6s have come alive, I mean an extreme difference, the bass and sound stage are much improved so definitely something to think about. I will have to use low gain and evaluate the performance, I was using high gain at 12 o'clock.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Good to know, meusickfrek. Thanks for that. Just to clarify, are you still using the Denon to power those speakers? I gather you're now using the preamp-in on it.... (I'm rather sleepy.) Thanks.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I am also using my Lyr 2 pre-amp out to a speaker amp, wired for my 560's, but as a straight amp for my Alpha Dogs. It is phenomenal in both applications.


----------



## meusickfrek

Yes, I am still going through the Denon amp.  I have yet to use the Lyr preamp in low gain mode as some have suggested to increase the sound quality. Also, I bought the Lyr 2 and used it with the trusty little Pico DAC with a moderate increase in sound quality, it wasn't until I got the Bitfrost Uber that the Lyr 2 really shined.  I think the addition of the bitfrost was the largest improvement in sound quality, my original amp was a Purity Audio Kicas Caliente.  The increase form a $500 system to a $1000 system was far more than double using HD 600s, just my 2 cents.


----------



## scizzro

Anyone have experience with the cheap black socket savers you can find on ebay? I.E.:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-PIN-SOCKET-SAVER-Ships-from-USA-12AX7-12AT7-12AU7-EL84-12BH7-/391019128520?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5b0a8e66c8
  
 I saw some people earlier in the thread talking about the white ones that go for $50 a pair, j/w if anyone has tried the cheaper ones


----------



## sfo1972

scizzro said:


> Anyone have experience with the cheap black socket savers you can find on ebay? I.E.:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-PIN-SOCKET-SAVER-Ships-from-USA-12AX7-12AT7-12AU7-EL84-12BH7-/391019128520?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5b0a8e66c8
> 
> I saw some people earlier in the thread talking about the white ones that go for $50 a pair, j/w if anyone has tried the cheaper ones




Yes, I have them and posted some info here: 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4380#post_11181917

They are really good. I got 8 off them for 23 bucks


----------



## scizzro

sfo1972 said:


> Yes, I have them and posted some info here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4380#post_11181917
> 
> They are really good. I got 8 off them for 23 bucks


 
 Sweet. Just picked up a pair from tubedepot. They had them the cheapest I could find, $7.30 shipped if anyone else is interested. And they ship from the USA, not China.
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver


----------



## rb2013

scizzro said:


> Sweet. Just picked up a pair from tubedepot. They had them the cheapest I could find, $7.30 shipped if anyone else is interested. And they ship from the USA, not China.
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver


 

 Nice!


----------



## TeddyShot

It just got here, and oh is it beautiful! True to the seller's word, it is in Like New condition, now the only thing is he shipped it with the tubes installed, so I have to remove them and reinstall them to make sure they didn't misalign during shipping. I'm a little nervous about doing this since it's my first time installing tubes.

Update: I'm trying to remove them by gently rocking them back and forth and pulling up from the tip, but they don't seem to budge at all. I read up that you can use masking or electric tape to help remove them. Is duct tape acceptable?


----------



## scizzro

teddyshot said:


> It just got here, and oh is it beautiful! True to the seller's word, it is in Like New condition, now the only thing is he shipped it with the tubes installed, so I have to remove them and reinstall them to make sure they didn't misalign during shipping. I'm a little nervous about doing this since it's my first time installing tubes.
> 
> Update: I'm trying to remove them by gently rocking them back and forth and pulling up from the tip, but they don't seem to budge at all. I read up that you can use masking or electric tape to help remove them. Is duct tape acceptable?


 
 I use a rubber band. Wrap it around the tube till the ends cross, keep it taught, and wiggle back and forth while pulling up at the same time.
  
 It works great, I can't get the tubes out otherwise. That's why I just ordered the socket savers, they make removal easier. If you're interested, look a few posts back.
  
 If you try the rubber band method, just be careful when the tube is almost out, if you pull up too hard you might send it flying


----------



## TeddyShot

I removed them slowly and carefully but this one's pins appear to have bent a bit, what do I do?

Update: I'm trying to insert the other one, which isnt bent, but even with gentle force they don't go down, I'm afraid I may break something if I push too hard


----------



## Xoen

Believe it or not, one of my stock tubes looked like that, too when I got my Lyr 2 two weeks ago.  Lol I thought it was just a random manufacturing anomaly but kind of weird how you got it, too.


----------



## amigastar

yes thats my biggest concern for buying a Lyr 2, i'm afraid i'll brake something while changing Tubes.
 thats a reason i'm not sure if i go for lyr 2 or Project Ember.


----------



## TeddyShot

I got it in, I guess they realign themselves as you wiggle them down slowly? Anyways I turned on the amp, I'm going to leave it warming up as I head off to the gym. 

Another thing, the Lyr 2 does have a faint transformer him right, because mine does. Of course it makes sense since it pulps a ton of power.


----------



## dL.

teddyshot said:


> I got it in, I guess they realign themselves as you wiggle them down slowly? Anyways I turned on the amp, I'm going to leave it warming up as I head off to the gym.
> 
> Another thing, the Lyr 2 does have a faint transformer him right, because mine does. Of course it makes sense since it pulps a ton of power.




It shouldn't make any noise at least not that I recall.

dL


----------



## money4me247

teddyshot said:


> I removed them slowly and carefully but this one's pins appear to have bent a bit, what do I do?
> 
> Update: I'm trying to insert the other one, which isnt bent, but even with gentle force they don't go down, I'm afraid I may break something if I push too hard


 
  
 Often time that is how the tubes are. I received my new tubes in similar condition. Only an issue if you are getting audible noise & distortion during listening. However, this may be fixable by adjusting the tube seating.
  
 You most likely did not bend the tubes by removing them.


----------



## money4me247

amigastar said:


> yes thats my biggest concern for buying a Lyr 2, i'm afraid i'll brake something while changing Tubes.
> thats a reason i'm not sure if i go for lyr 2 or Project Ember.


 
  
 If you are planning on "rolling" tubes & switching out tubes quite often, go with Project Ember. They are extremely friendly for tube rollers. They have auto bias, support for more types of tubes, only require one tube (save costs when purchasing new tubes), and tubes are extremely easy to remove.
  
 For the Lyr 2, it legit takes like 15 minutes of wiggling to get that tubes out. ...And there are two tubes! hahah. To roll with the Lyr 2, I imagine socket savers are required. Also, you will need to spend more on each new tube you try as you will need to get a matched set. Often more than double the price.
  
 If you have a specific tube in mind for the Lyr 2 or if you would be just happy with the stock tubes, it is a good choice. If you want to roll multiple tubes & keep trying new things, I think Project Ember would be the better choice.


----------



## amigastar

money4me247 said:


> If you are planning on "rolling" tubes & switching out tubes quite often, go with Project Ember. They are extremely friendly for tube rollers. They have auto bias, support for more types of tubes, only require one tube (save costs when purchasing new tubes), and tubes are extremely easy to remove.
> 
> For the Lyr 2, it legit takes like 15 minutes of wiggling to get that tubes out. ...And there are two tubes! hahah. To roll with the Lyr 2, I imagine socket savers are required. Also, you will need to spend more on each new tube you try as you will need to get a matched set. Often more than double the price.
> 
> If you have a specific tube in mind for the Lyr 2 or if you would be just happy with the stock tubes, it is a good choice. If you want to roll multiple tubes & keep trying new things, I think Project Ember would be the better choice.


 

 Thanks for the input, mate.
  
 I would love to buy a Lyr 2 but like you said Project Ember is more friendly for rolling tubes (i already knew the term "rolling" don know why i used "change").
 I'm really not sure because I guess Lyr 2 has more "juice" for my HE-500 and i'm not really informed about which amp has the better sound, i would hope for not a big difference.
 I should mention though that i'm not seeing myself rolling tubes too often so yeah haha, thats a decision i have to make.


----------



## money4me247

amigastar said:


> Thanks for the input, mate.
> 
> I would love to buy a Lyr 2 but like you said Project Ember is more friendly for rolling tubes (i already knew the term "rolling" don know why i used "change").
> I'm really not sure because I guess Lyr 2 has more "juice" for my HE-500 and i'm not really informed about which amp has the better sound, i would hope for not a big difference.
> I should mention though that i'm not seeing myself rolling tubes too often so yeah haha, thats a decision i have to make.


 
 The 2W of Project Ember is more than adequate for all orthodynamic headphones. I personally got the Lyr 2 because I wasn't planning on rolling tubes & had the extra cash. Both options are excellent & you can't go wrong either way.


----------



## amigastar

Awesome and good to know. thx


----------



## mangler

As far as removing tubes go, I find that they're pretty easy to remove if you just gently wiggle them back and forth as you slowly pull them up. Doesn't take more that a minute if your being gentle.

Also, a pin on one of my tubes was also bent, so I just straightened it out using my fingers and it slide right into the socket. Everything seems to be working fine, so I don't think doing this causes any damage.


----------



## TeddyShot

About the transformer hum, it's very subtle, I can only hear it if my ear is close to the amp, can anyone confirm if this is normal?

Also, what about the inputs, I left the amp warming up for an hour and a half, but i never connected my source (in this case my iPod Touch). Is it okay to connect the input when the amp is on, or should I turn it off, connect the iPod and then turn it on? And is it supposed to run real hot? I think I can burn my finger if I touch it for more than 10 seconds.


----------



## Xoen

teddyshot said:


> About the transformer hum, it's very subtle, I can only hear it if my ear is close to the amp, can anyone confirm if this is normal?
> 
> Also, what about the inputs, I left the amp warming up for an hour and a half, but i never connected my source (in this case my iPod Touch). Is it okay to connect the input when the amp is on, or should I turn it off, connect the iPod and then turn it on? And is it supposed to run real hot? I think I can burn my finger if I touch it for more than 10 seconds.


 
 You can plug your iPod in while the amp is on.  It won't hurt anything.  And the Lyr 2 can get really hot.  It's perfectly normal.  My Lyr 2 gets pretty hot that the volume knob can get pretty warm to the touch after several hours of operation.


----------



## TeddyShot

xoen said:


> You can plug your iPod in while the amp is on.  It won't hurt anything.  And the Lyr 2 can real really hot.  It's perfectly normal.  My Lyr 2 gets pretty hot that the volume knob can get pretty warm to the touch after several hours of operation.




What about the low volume hum? Do you hear any when you put your ear close to the amp?


----------



## Xoen

teddyshot said:


> What about the low volume hum? Do you hear any when you put your ear close to the amp?


 
 My amp is dead silent.  If you mean the very subtle buzzing from the transformer inside the amp, then yes that's normal.


----------



## TeddyShot

Yes I meant the hum from the transformer, im currently testing with a pair of 598s, (I don't have my 650s at the moment) and it's dead silent on low gain.


----------



## TeddyShot

money4me247 said:


> If you are planning on "rolling" tubes & switching out tubes quite often, go with Project Ember. They are extremely friendly for tube rollers. They have auto bias, support for more types of tubes, only require one tube (save costs when purchasing new tubes), and tubes are extremely easy to remove.
> 
> For the Lyr 2, it legit takes like 15 minutes of wiggling to get that tubes out. ...And there are two tubes! hahah. To roll with the Lyr 2, I imagine socket savers are required. Also, you will need to spend more on each new tube you try as you will need to get a matched set. Often more than double the price.
> 
> If you have a specific tube in mind for the Lyr 2 or if you would be just happy with the stock tubes, it is a good choice. If you want to roll multiple tubes & keep trying new things, I think Project Ember would be the better choice.




I managed to get both tubes out in under 45 seconds each by wrapping the top in masking tape (well painters tape). Inserting each one with this method took about 1 minute each.


----------



## TeddyShot

I tried some gaming with the Lyr 2 on my PS3 and the sound was crystal clear and detailed, amazing stuff! But do you guys know if Its possible to use the Lyr 2 as a PreAmp for a Turtle Beach DSS surround sound processor? I used it with the Lyr 2 connected via the Headphone out and the 598s connected to the Lyr 2. I heard the DSS supposedly also has a built in amp, but I don't want to fry anything lol.


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> I tried some gaming with the Lyr 2 on my PS3 and the sound was crystal clear and detailed, amazing stuff! But do you guys know if Its possible to use the Lyr 2 as a PreAmp for a Turtle Beach DSS surround sound processor? I used it with the Lyr 2 connected via the Headphone out and the 598s connected to the Lyr 2. I heard the DSS supposedly also has a built in amp, but I don't want to fry anything lol.


 

 I believe there was an earlier post regarding using the Lyr2 as a preamp. But my experience is yes, I have my DAC output connected to the Lyr2 and the Pre-amp outputs connected to my AMP. The Lyr2 should be on low-gain without headphones plugged in. The volume knob usually at 3 o'clock or full based on how much power you want to crank to your amp.  Schiit's tech told me to crank it on full volume when I wrote inquiring about the Pre-amp setup.
  
 It would be good to see if someone on the forum has your setup and has attempted the connection with their experience.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## rb2013

teddyshot said:


> I removed them slowly and carefully but this one's pins appear to have bent a bit, what do I do?
> 
> Update: I'm trying to insert the other one, which isnt bent, but even with gentle force they don't go down, I'm afraid I may break something if I push too hard


 

 Don't worry I've never broken a tube or damaged it when inserting or removing.  The bent pins this is somewhat normal and does not effect performance.  If you buy used tubes just make sure that all the pins are in close to a circle formation.  If one is dangling out, with your fingertip just gently pull it back to the circle.
  
 Don't use any kind of normal pliers in removing - they are glass and if squeezed hard enough will break.
  
 I recommend a little of this stuff- it acts as a contact enhancer and lubricant.  It makes them slide in and out much easier.  Cheap too.  $8 on Amazon - just apply a little to each pin.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420733855&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+gold


----------



## rb2013

amigastar said:


> yes thats my biggest concern for buying a Lyr 2, i'm afraid i'll brake something while changing Tubes.
> thats a reason i'm not sure if i go for lyr 2 or Project Ember.


 

 If you get some $10 tube risers rolling tubes is way easier.
  
 The Project Ember uses opamps for the pre-amp section with the tube only acting as a buffer. 
  
 The Lyr has a true DC heater tube pre-amp section and the amp section is Class 'A' biased MOSFETs.  This amp is ridiculously good in design and sound for the money.  It needs the right tubes to sound best.
  
 It made me give up my beloved Woo WA6-SE.


----------



## amigastar

rb2013 said:


> If you get some $10 tube risers rolling tubes is way easier.
> 
> The Project Ember uses opamps for the pre-amp section with the tube only acting as a buffer.
> 
> ...


 
 Could you link me to a tube riser maybe?
 google doesn't show me anything useful.
 thanks


----------



## TeddyShot

rb2013 said:


> Don't worry I've never broken a tube or damaged it when inserting or removing.  The bent pins this is somewhat normal and does not effect performance.  If you buy used tubes just make sure that all the pins are in close to a circle formation.  If one is dangling out, with your fingertip just gently pull it back to the circle.
> 
> Don't use any kind of normal pliers in removing - they are glass and if squeezed hard enough will break.
> 
> ...




I managed to straighten them by using my fingertips, and as for the DeoxiITGold, I may give that a try when I buy another pair of tubes. But for now, using masking tape on the tips works wonders for removing them.


----------



## TeddyShot

sfo1972 said:


> I believe there was an earlier post regarding using the Lyr2 as a preamp. But my experience is yes, I have my DAC output connected to the Lyr2 and the Pre-amp outputs connected to my AMP. The Lyr2 should be on low-gain without headphones plugged in. The volume knob usually at 3 o'clock or full based on how much power you want to crank to your amp.  Schiit's tech told me to crank it on full volume when I wrote inquiring about the Pre-amp setup.
> 
> It would be good to see if someone on the forum has your setup and has attempted the connection with their experience.
> 
> Good luck.




Well since no one here has my setup, I'm going to attempt it myself, first at 12 o'clock and going up progressively, as I don't want to fry the DSS lol. But is there anything I should look out for? Like signs that something isn't working right?


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> Well since no one here has my setup, I'm going to attempt it myself, first at 12 o'clock and going up progressively, as I don't want to fry the DSS lol. But is there anything I should look out for? Like signs that something isn't working right?




I suggest starting at 9 o'clock, low gain, then play your source. Put your amp at 9 o'clock as well. Then check sound, slowly raise the volume knob to 12 o'clock on the lyr. 

Only thing should be that nothing sounds distorted or wrong. I believe it will all work OK just go slow through the process to find the best setting for volume on the lyr and Amp. Let us know how it goes buddy. 

Good luck


----------



## scizzro

amigastar said:


> Could you link me to a tube riser maybe?
> google doesn't show me anything useful.
> thanks


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/600#post_11200290
  
 I just ordered them last night, so I can't give you an opinion on them. But they were cheap.


----------



## rb2013

amigastar said:


> Could you link me to a tube riser maybe?
> google doesn't show me anything useful.
> thanks


 

 Sure https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver
  
 I use these http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
  
 Good luck!


----------



## TeddyShot

Well I tried it and it did not work. I don't think the DSS can Preamped. I attempted this by connecting the output of the Lyr 2 into the analogue input of the DSS, I then adjusted the volume of the Lyr 2, and the input volume of the DSS but heard no difference. The volume only changed when I adjusted the output volume of the DSS.


----------



## TeddyShot

Damn I wish I had my 650s right now. The 598s are nice headphones and all, but they don't improve too much from amping. They sound cleaner, bass is tighter and detail is more present, but nowhere near as good sounding as my 650s.

Does anyone here know which gain setting is best for the 598s?


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> Well I tried it and it did not work. I don't think the DSS can Preamped. I attempted this by connecting the output of the Lyr 2 into the analogue input of the DSS, I then adjusted the volume of the Lyr 2, and the input volume of the DSS but heard no difference. The volume only changed when I adjusted the output volume of the DSS.




That's very surprising because the volume knob on the lyr2 definitely controls the output level of the pre-amp output. So what is your setup now? Lyr2 out to your DSS, low gain, full volume on lyr2?


----------



## TeddyShot

sfo1972 said:


> That's very surprising because the volume knob on the lyr2 definitely controls the output level of the pre-amp output. So what is your setup now? Lyr2 out to your DSS, low gain, full volume on lyr2?




Yeah Lyr 2 out of the headphone out on the DSS. With 90% volume on the DSS and and I adjust the volume on the Lyr 2 with High Gain on (I think the 598s sound better on high gain).


----------



## Xoen

Just got my new Genalex Gold Lions E88CC's in after reading some reviews on it from this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thought I'd start off small and improve later on with better tubes.  Burned it in for about 5 hours so far and compared to the stock tubes, I did notice the soundstage opened up just a little and sounded more holographic.  Highs are definitely sparkly and smooth but just a little sibilant, mids are smooth and neutral, and lows are tight and controlled but lacks some impact compared to the bassier stock tubes.  I'm sure it may change over time with more hours of burn in cause according to the reviews on the same tubes the bass has impact.  I guess the impressions are a little too early to tell.  I'm using my HD700's to analyze the tube upgrades and so far I'm VERY pleased with the sound signature. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  

 Stock 6BZ7 tubes on the left and the new Genalex Gold Lions
 E88CC tubes on the right.  

 And the burn in process begins!


----------



## m usicguy

Can the Lyr 2 be stood on it side?  anyone doing this?  I see the output amps are on the same location as the asgard 2.  So standing it on it side would put the heat at the top for better cooling.
  
 m usicguy


----------



## TeddyShot

m usicguy said:


> Can the Lyr 2 be stood on it side?  anyone doing this?  I see the output amps are on the same location as the asgard 2.  So standing it on it side would put the heat at the top for better cooling.
> 
> m usicguy




Well the Asgard 2 is a solid state amp, without any moving parts. I'm not sure you want to do that on an amp with tubes, besides that it would look kind of weird in my opinion with the tubes sticking out on one side.


----------



## sling5s

I'm beginning to get a loud pop.  Once the Lyr 2 is turned on, there’s a loud pop after 20 seconds. Isn’t the relay supposed to prevent the pop?
 Sometimes it’s pretty loud and I have the LCD-2F.


----------



## kman1211

sling5s said:


> I'm beginning to get a loud pop.  Once the Lyr 2 is turned on, there’s a loud pop after 20 seconds. Isn’t the relay supposed to prevent the pop?
> Sometimes it’s pretty loud and I have the LCD-2F.


 
 I get the pop on my Lyr 2 after the 20 second delay as well. Sometimes I hear an occasional pop coming from the amp itself(doesn't affect the headphones sound one bit) when it's on. I don't have any problems with the amp so I ended up ignoring it.


----------



## TeddyShot

sling5s said:


> I'm beginning to get a loud pop.  Once the Lyr 2 is turned on, there’s a loud pop after 20 seconds. Isn’t the relay supposed to prevent the pop?
> Sometimes it’s pretty loud and I have the LCD-2F.




lol no, that's what the muting relay is for. The output is muted for 20 seconds, this allows the tubes to warm up and and also my guess to prevent headphones from getting damaged. The popping is perfectly normal, it's when the muting relay is turned off or output stops being muted (haven't looked to deep into this). In fact many amps have a muting relay, just usually with shorter muting time.


----------



## Xoen

I've never noticed this "pop" you guys speak of with my amp ever since I got it weeks ago.  I guess I made it a habit to turn on the amp and let it warm up for a few minutes while doing stuff then come back and listen.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Glad it's a normal thing.


----------



## Xoen

m usicguy said:


> Can the Lyr 2 be stood on it side?  anyone doing this?  I see the output amps are on the same location as the asgard 2.  So standing it on it side would put the heat at the top for better cooling.
> 
> m usicguy


 
 The Lyr 2 is designed to dissipate heat as efficiently as possible.  You got ventilation holes on both sides of the amp as well as around the tubes.  I think your amp will cool just fine.  Standing the amp on its side just poses a tipping hazard, not to mention you would be blocking one of the ventilation holes on either side anyways thus creating more unnecessary heat.  Just have a fan blow some air on it if you're worried about the heat issue.


----------



## scizzro

Sitting in my freezing cold unheated basement during winter, this thing doubles as a hand warmer. Literally. I love it


----------



## RedBull

rb2013 said:


> The Project Ember uses opamps for the pre-amp section with the tube only acting as a buffer.
> 
> The Lyr has a true DC heater tube pre-amp section and the amp section is Class 'A' biased MOSFETs.  This amp is ridiculously good in design and sound for the money.  It needs the right tubes to sound best.




That's not like what I read. Project Ember pre-amp use the same exact circuit as the headphone out but with lower power, so the tube is not only as buffer when used as pre amp.


----------



## sfo1972

scizzro said:


> Sitting in my freezing cold unheated basement during winter, this thing doubles as a hand warmer. Literally. I love it


 

 ....the lengths we go to for our music


----------



## rb2013

redbull said:


> That's not like what I read. Project Ember pre-amp use the same exact circuit as the headphone out but with lower power, so the tube is not only as buffer when used as pre amp.


 

 From what I read the Project Amber uses an opamp driven pre-amp with tube buffering, I believe.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROJECT-EMBER-TUBE-HEADPHONE-AMPLIFIER-PRE-AMP-BUFFER-DIY-KIT-US-SELLER-/261218197173


> - Pre-amp output so it can double as a volume controlled tube buffer​


 
  
 http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm
  


> Ember cannot roll opamps. I think this confusion came from our Project Starlight amplifier which can in fact roll many opamps. The output stages on Ember are reflow soldered to the PCB and cannot be rolled. They are mounted this way for part of our thermal - cooling solution which works very well. Trust me, they are perfect for Ember... and Frans told me NO rolling on this design so just do not attempt it. Pain, misery and poor results will follow.
> ​


 


> In short, she is outstanding and the features can help you set her up to be anything you want from a headphone amplifier, tuber buffer - pre-amplifier.​


 
 The Lyr has no opamps - the range of tubes in a buffering configuration can be much wider as the opamps deal with the loading issues of different headphone resistances


----------



## TeddyShot

What volume levels do you guys use on the Lyr 2? And with what headphones and gain setting?


----------



## kupleh

For me it is much more easier to remove to tube by wiggle it left and right. I thought it is because the tube socket is set that the "tube empty pin" (I don't know what to call it) is on the 3 o'clock position so basically wiggle to that direction. Assuming you are facing in front of Lyr.


----------



## Xoen

teddyshot said:


> What volume levels do you guys use on the Lyr 2? And with what headphones and gain setting?


 
 For my HD700's usually around 11 or 12 o'clock on high gain.  For my ATH-W1000X's usually around 11 to 1 o'clock on low gain.


----------



## rawrster

It took me a while but I bought the Lyr 2. I've decided to go with these since I think I'll be stick with mid-fi for a while. I decided to reevaluate when I got the q701 and my stax setup is pretty much gone. 

I'll be using them mostly with the q701 and k7xx. Now I just have to look into that large tube thread and do some research.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Check out the lyr tube rollers thread. Great info on there. It lead me to @rb2013 and his holy grail(75 6N23P SWPG Silver)Voskhods. Cheers 





rawrster said:


> It took me a while but I bought the Lyr 2. I've decided to go with these since I think I'll be stick with mid-fi for a while. I decided to reevaluate when I got the q701 and my stax setup is pretty much gone.
> 
> I'll be using them mostly with the q701 and k7xx. Now I just have to look into that large tube thread and do some research.


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> What volume levels do you guys use on the Lyr 2? And with what headphones and gain setting?


 

 Usually between 10 and 12 o'clock, audeze lcd3s, high-gain.


----------



## rawrster

guidostrunk said:


> Check out the lyr tube rollers thread. Great info on there. It lead me to @rb2013 and his holy grail(75 6N23P SWPG Silver)Voskhods. Cheers


 
  
 I definitely will. I've been skimming through it since I considered this amp and looks like there's a few set of tubes that seems like a crowd favorite. I do need to get those pin savers since I recall having some issues with the original Lyr when I tried it a few years ago. I'll stay with the stock tubes first and go from there however as I've done a good amount of purchasing lately. I have to stay away from ebay on my phone as that usually gets me. The K7xx wasn't planned but saw a good price on the bay.


----------



## dL.

xoen said:


> For my HD700's usually around 11 or 12 o'clock on high gain.  For my ATH-W1000X's usually around 11 to 1 o'clock on low gain.


 

 And I thought I listen to my music loud. 12 o'clock is plenty loud on low gain for the HD700's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 dL


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah. The eBay app is my wallets worst enemy. Lol. It's hard to pass a good deal up. 





rawrster said:


> I definitely will. I've been skimming through it since I considered this amp and looks like there's a few set of tubes that seems like a crowd favorite. I do need to get those pin savers since I recall having some issues with the original Lyr when I tried it a few years ago. I'll stay with the stock tubes first and go from there however as I've done a good amount of purchasing lately. I have to stay away from ebay on my phone as that usually gets me. The K7xx wasn't planned but saw a good price on the bay.


----------



## luiztfc

Wrong thread! Sorry


----------



## bwmarrin

rb2013 said:


> Sure https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver
> 
> I use these http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> Good luck!


 
  
 Can anyone provide any detail on the differences of these two?  There's a pretty significant price difference.
  
 Also, a comment on the tubemonger side says they provided some huge sound quality difference.  I'm pretty wary of believing something like that but... Do these things actually make the amp sound different? If so, can someone explain how (both how is sounds, and how it's physically possible).  Thanks


----------



## rawrster

guidostrunk said:


> Yeah. The eBay app is my wallets worst enemy. Lol. It's hard to pass a good deal up.




That's actually how I spend my money on eBay 99% of the time. I would save a lot if I didn't have that app. 

My lyr 2 is set to arrive Friday and I get a bunch of other stuff coming in this week too. I should have my k7xx and some tubes so looking forward to this amp. I probably don't need the Lyr for my headphone but maybe I'll go back to higher priced headphones again one day


----------



## Audiotic

The 10-fold price sifference buys you silicone damping. Probably useful against microphony. I got them, as I want to be absolutely sure I het "the best", whatever that is 
On top of that, they ship them BEAUTIFULLY!
:mad:


----------



## bwmarrin

Quick Question 
  
 Does anyone know if I could take the 1/4 "headphone" output from an Oppo 105D and with a adapter cable plug it into the input RCA jacks on the Lyr2?  Without causing any problems or anything weird?
  
 It seems like it should work fine to me   It would be like taking the 3.5mm output from any device, like an iPod or computer, etc.. Which I've always done with powered speakers, etc.


----------



## scizzro

bwmarrin said:


> Quick Question
> 
> Does anyone know if I could take the 1/4 "headphone" output from an Oppo 105D and with a adapter cable plug it into the input RCA jacks on the Lyr2?  Without causing any problems or anything weird?
> 
> It seems like it should work fine to me   It would be like taking the 3.5mm output from any device, like an iPod or computer, etc.. Which I've always done with powered speakers, etc.


 
 Does it not have a pre-amp output?


----------



## bwmarrin

scizzro said:


> Does it not have a pre-amp output?


 
  
  
 Sure it does - but they're connected to my amp that powers my speakers. 
  
 I'd rather not have to unplug one for the other and so forth. I suppose I could use a splitter but that's adding a more junk than I'd like and then I'd need to unplug the speaker amp trigger (or power) to keep it from coming on.   The Oppo also keeps separate volume levels for the headphone jack and the pre-out's which would be handy since the same default volume level probably wouldn't be ideal for both.
  
 Using the 1/4 jack would just be overall easier.  Just plug it in when I want to use it   Most the time the Lyr will be at my office so this would just be an occasional use type of thing.


----------



## scizzro

bwmarrin said:


> Using the 1/4 jack would just be overall easier.  Just plug it in when I want to use it   Most the time the Lyr will be at my office so this would just be an occasional use type of thing.


 
 Will it work? Yes. It's not the optimal situation though, there are multiple threads on here about Double Amping you can read about. 
  
 Many people use an RCA switch in your situation.


----------



## bwmarrin

scizzro said:


> Will it work? Yes. It's not the optimal situation though, there are multiple threads on here about Double Amping you can read about.
> 
> Many people use an RCA switch in your situation.


 
  
 I'll read up.
  
 Looks like the Schiit Sys has two inputs and one output.  I'd need one input and two outputs and ideally without a volume in the middle of them.  I'll look and see if I find something.  I'd really rather not add another "thing" into the loop if I can avoid it though.   Since I'll only rarely hook up like this I might just unplug one and plug in the other if the 1/4 output doesn't sound right.
  
 Thanks for the advise and help!


----------



## scizzro

bwmarrin said:


> I'll read up.
> 
> Looks like the Schiit Sys has two inputs and one output.  I'd need one input and two outputs and ideally without a volume in the middle of them.  I'll look and see if I find something.  I'd really rather not add another "thing" into the loop if I can avoid it though.   Since I'll only rarely hook up like this I might just unplug one and plug in the other if the 1/4 output doesn't sound right.
> 
> Thanks for the advise and help!


 
 It's passive, so you can use it backwards(1I 2O). Jason confirmed it in some other thread. Any switch will do, if you wanna go that way. I understand the whole wanting to keep the signal as "pure" as you can. Your call 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/715525/avant-le-schiitstorm-a-couple-of-small-announcements/15#post_10480938


----------



## Daetlus

I got a Magni 2, two days ago. My thought it'd be funny to tell me I couldn't upgrade it until it broke. Well it broke. So I bought a Lyr 2. Joke is on her. Will leave my impressions on Lyr 2 + HE-560 in a few days.


----------



## Robseth

I sold my Lyr 1 and bought Lyr 2, and on high gain there is very loud noise floor. I have Audeze LCD-2 Fazor plugged in and it's waaay more audiable then it was on Lyr 1. I wonder if my unit is defective or on high gain it just gets that loud? On low gain it's dead silent. Could anyone with audeze comment.


----------



## rawrster

So I picked up my Lyr 2 today. I can see why those socket savers are a thing with these. The tubes are difficult to put in so I'm going to buy a pair and the deoxit tube kit. I only have the stock tubes right now but I do have some Voshod Rockets coming and also a pair of Siemens E88CC/6922 A frame so that should give me a good starting point. I do plan on a few other sets to have a decent collection of tubes to play around with but that will come in time.
  
 I do have to get a small piece of wood from Home Depot this weekend since I've been using those metal storage shelves as my audio rack and the stick on feet is way too small. 
  
 I'll be pairing these mostly with my Violectric V800 DAC and AKG Q701 or K7xx headphones. I think power wise it's a bit much but my Concero HP wasn't cutting it.


----------



## reddog

rawrster said:


> So I picked up my Lyr 2 today. I can see why those socket savers are a thing with these. The tubes are difficult to put in so I'm going to buy a pair and the deoxit tube kit. I only have the stock tubes right now but I do have some Voshod Rockets coming and also a pair of Siemens E88CC/6922 A frame so that should give me a good starting point. I do plan on a few other sets to have a decent collection of tubes to play around with but that will come in time.
> 
> I do have to get a small piece of wood from Home Depot this weekend since I've been using those metal storage shelves as my audio rack and the stick on feet is way too small.
> 
> I'll be pairing these mostly with my Violectric V800 DAC and AKG Q701 or K7xx headphones. I think power wise it's a bit much but my Concero HP wasn't cutting it.



Sweet hope your lyr2 rig makes your cans sing. And yes the socket savers are a great device, and I need to order a pair soon too.


----------



## Xoen

I'd get me socket savers for my Lyr 2, but I think I'll like my amp better without it since it looks better.  lol  Anyways, I'm pretty settled with my new Genalex Gold Lions E88CC I've bought since last Friday of last week.  I've been burning them in ever since and so far my impressions on these tubes compared to stock ones have been impressive thus far.  My HD700's are actually so much smoother sounding in the highs without very little to no harshness compared to stock.  And mids are sweeter sounding and smooth but neutral and the soundstage are wide open and holographic without losing detail in the warmth.  And bass now has more punch and extends deeper.  Overall more refined sounding than stock tubes.  Very impressed with these tubes and I'll recommend to anyone who's looking to upgrade their stock tubes to a set of relatively inexpensive but really impressive sounding E88CC tubes.
  
  Next step would be the Telefunken E88CC, but doubt they'll be available in the future considering their rarity and high price.


----------



## rawrster

I wish i still had the CTH Rev A to compare to. That was a small tube amp that delivers more than you think it would. I think the two would be comparable. So far I get the sense that the amp is slightly on the warmer side but not too bad. I did do a quick listen with the Q701, K7xx and my UERM and I do like it so far. It's nice to have an amp with the flexibility to drive headphones as well as iem's since with the latter you usually get the issue of either channel imbalance at low levels or the gain is too high.
  
 One advantage to this amp is that it has been getting colder recently and it can double as a hand warmer. I could probably keep my coffee warm on them  I got some rearranging my room to do tomorrow (it's really long overdue) and going to find a better place to put my amp. It will probably go on my desk since I no longer have a larger sized amp.


----------



## rb2013

xoen said:


> I'd get me socket savers for my Lyr 2, but I think I'll like my amp better without it since it looks better.  lol  Anyways, I'm pretty settled with my new Genalex Gold Lions E88CC I've bought since last Friday of last week.  I've been burning them in ever since and so far my impressions on these tubes compared to stock ones have been impressive thus far.  My HD700's are actually so much smoother sounding in the highs without very little to no harshness compared to stock.  And mids are sweeter sounding and smooth but neutral and the soundstage are wide open and holographic without losing detail in the warmth.  And bass now has more punch and extends deeper.  Overall more refined sounding than stock tubes.  Very impressed with these tubes and I'll recommend to anyone who's looking to upgrade their stock tubes to a set of relatively inexpensive but really impressive sounding E88CC tubes.
> 
> Next step would be the Telefunken E88CC, but doubt they'll be available in the future considering their rarity and high price.


Those are best of the new production I've heard. But wait until you hear a really good pair of vintage tubes, for the same $90/pr as the GL's you can get much better. My favorites are the 6N23P Voskhods. Many of the '70's vintage prs can be had for $50-$60.

Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I wish i still had the CTH Rev A to compare to. That was a small tube amp that delivers more than you think it would. I think the two would be comparable. So far I get the sense that the amp is slightly on the warmer side but not too bad. I did do a quick listen with the Q701, K7xx and my UERM and I do like it so far. It's nice to have an amp with the flexibility to drive headphones as well as iem's since with the latter you usually get the issue of either channel imbalance at low levels or the gain is too high.
> 
> One advantage to this amp is that it has been getting colder recently and it can double as a hand warmer. I could probably keep my coffee warm on them  I got some rearranging my room to do tomorrow (it's really long overdue) and going to find a better place to put my amp. It will probably go on my desk since I no longer have a larger sized amp.


The Lyr's sound best toastie warm. The Mosfet output devices run in class A, need to be on for a few hours to really smoothout. I give mine 4 hrs of warmup before extended listening.


----------



## Xoen

rb2013 said:


> The Lyr's sound best toastie warm. The Mosfet output devices run in class A, need to be on for a few hours to really smoothout. I give mine 4 hrs of warmup before extended listening.


 
 4 hours seems a bit excessive, don't you think?   Mine begins to 'stabilize' after only about 30 minutes to an hour, in which my amp reaches its max potential.


----------



## rb2013

xoen said:


> 4 hours seems a bit excessive, don't you think?   Mine begins to 'stabilize' after only about 30 minutes to an hour, in which my amp reaches its max potential.


I 've noticed mine better with more warm up. I believe it's a temperature issue. So it may depend on the ambient temperature in the room. I live in Seattle and our house is usually kept at a chilly 65 degrees.

I've had my Lyr for several years - so I've heard it in many seasons. I have logged thousands of hours on mine, rolling over 50 different tube types, both new production and vintage.


----------



## Xoen

rb2013 said:


> I 've noticed mine better with more warm up. I believe it's a temperature issue. So it may depend on the ambient temperature in the room. I live in Seattle and our house is usually kept at a chilly 65 degrees.
> 
> I've had my Lyr for several years - so I've heard it in many seasons. I have logged thousands of hours on mine, rolling over 50 different tube types, both new production and vintage.


 
 Oh, I see.  Kinda makes more sense I guess.  My room is usually about 70 degrees here so I guess my amp doesn't take long to fully warm up.  I find it hot to the touch after about 45 minutes operating time.  And good to know your Lyr has lasted you that long.    Hoping these things are as reliable as Schiit says they are.  I've only rolled one set of tubes so far but plan to do more in the future when I settle with my new current ones.


----------



## rawrster

Schiit gear should hold up well and if not they have a good warranty and they stand behind their products. Schiit is one of the few companies I buy new from and don't mind for that reason.


----------



## rb2013

xoen said:


> Oh, I see.  Kinda makes more sense I guess.  My room is usually about 70 degrees here so I guess my amp doesn't take long to fully warm up.  I find it hot to the touch after about 45 minutes operating time.  And good to know your Lyr has lasted you that long.    Hoping these things are as reliable as Schiit says they are.  I've only rolled one set of tubes so far but plan to do more in the future when I settle with my new current ones.


 

 They are very well built - if you become a tube roller I would recommend getting tube risers.  They'll save wear and tear on the sockets and make it easier to roll.


----------



## persself

xoen said:


> I'd get me socket savers for my Lyr 2, but I think I'll like my amp better without it since it looks better.  lol  Anyways, I'm pretty settled with my new Genalex Gold Lions E88CC I've bought since last Friday of last week.  I've been burning them in ever since and so far my impressions on these tubes compared to stock ones have been impressive thus far.  My HD700's are actually so much smoother sounding in the highs without very little to no harshness compared to stock.  And mids are sweeter sounding and smooth but neutral and the soundstage are wide open and holographic without losing detail in the warmth.  And bass now has more punch and extends deeper.  Overall more refined sounding than stock tubes.  Very impressed with these tubes and I'll recommend to anyone who's looking to upgrade their stock tubes to a set of relatively inexpensive but really impressive sounding E88CC tubes.
> 
> Next step would be the Telefunken E88CC, but doubt they'll be available in the future considering their rarity and high price.


 
 First post here, but long time lurker!  I just bought the Gold Lions on ebay today; expect to get them by the end of the month.  Very excited, as this is my first pair to replace the stock tubes. 
  
 With my Beyerdynamic T1's, the stock tubes are too bright for my ears, so your comment about the Gold Lions being "much smoother sounding in the highs..." emphasises what I had researched.


----------



## Xoen

persself said:


> First post here, but long time lurker!  I just bought the Gold Lions on ebay today; expect to get them by the end of the month.  Very excited, as this is my first pair to replace the stock tubes.
> 
> With my Beyerdynamic T1's, the stock tubes are too bright for my ears, so your comment about the Gold Lions being "much smoother sounding in the highs..." emphasises what I had researched.


 
 Yes, the Gold Lions are indeed warm sounding tubes compared to the more shrill stock tubes.  They did tame the sometimes harsh highs on my HD700's, which are known to be bright sounding headphones anyways to the point of harshness on some tracks.  Putting the Gold Lions in helped tame that issue and now my headphones are clearly smoother sounding but still resolving and detailed in the highs while opening up a more wide open soundstage, which I've enjoyed the most out of these tubes.  Hopefully, your T1' will be smoother sounding as well once you put the GLs in.  They start to open up around 30 hours of burn in, by the 100 hour or so mark they reach their full potential.  Mines has well over 120 hours of burn in time and couldn't be more impressed.  
  
 Happy listening


----------



## persself

Awesome; thanks for the information,  Xoen.


----------



## NoxNoctum

Anyone with both a Lyr and Lyr 2 care to compare? Is the newer model worth the extra cash? Buying it for LCD2.


----------



## sling5s

If you're just using for LCD-2 and don't have sensitive low impedance headphones, not sure if it's worth getting the Lyr 2 over Lyr, the quality of the tubes are going to be a bigger factor.


----------



## persself

So I got the Gold Lions today, and swapped out the stock tubes.  Even with no burn in, I can hear a difference!  The brightness is gone.
 Very happy camper!  Got them on eBay from: *tubemazestore*


----------



## Xoen

persself said:


> So I got the Gold Lions today, and swapped out the stock tubes.  Even with no burn in, I can hear a difference!  The brightness is gone.
> Very happy camper!  Got them on eBay from: *tubemazestore*


 
 Congrats!  Hope you'll get enjoyment out of them!   Much warmer sounding tubes compared to stock tubes.


----------



## reddog

persself said:


> So I got the Gold Lions today, and swapped out the stock tubes.  Even with no burn in, I can hear a difference!  The brightness is gone.
> Very happy camper!  Got them on eBay from: *tubemazestore*







xoen said:


> Congrats!  I got the same tubes on mines and heard a significant improvement.  Much warmer sounding tubes compared to stock tubes.



Sweet I use gold lions as well. I really like how they add to the bass, without bleeding into the mids.


----------



## Xoen

reddog said:


> Sweet I use gold lions as well. I really like how they add to the bass, without bleeding into the mids.


 
 That's what I noticed, too, after burning the tubes in for a while.  There's more body to the sound and the mids are much smoother along with a warmer top end.  I wasn't expecting a significant difference from stock tubes but the major improvements in sound quality took me by surprise!  My favorite part was also how the sound stage is more spacious and holographic sounding, too.


----------



## persself

Just curious: are these the approximately 5000 hr life?


----------



## reddog

persself said:


> Just curious: are these the approximately 5000 hr life?



I think they are 10000 hours life.


----------



## m usicguy

Im new to the lyr 2.  Ive had mine for about 4 weeks now.  I have been using the stock tubes and a set of RCA of some kind.  
  
 Anybody have a review or suggestion on some more budget tubes.  LIke JJ gold pins?  The EH tubes.   100 dollars for a set of Goldlions is out of my price range right now.
  
 musicguy


----------



## lekoross

Check out rb2013. He has some great Voskhod rockets that aren't too expensive but will make a big difference.





m usicguy said:


> Im new to the lyr 2.  Ive had mine for about 4 weeks now.  I have been using the stock tubes and a set of RCA of some kind.
> 
> Anybody have a review or suggestion on some more budget tubes.  LIke JJ gold pins?  The EH tubes.   100 dollars for a set of Goldlions is out of my price range right now.
> 
> musicguy


----------



## sling5s

lekoross said:


> Check out rb2013. He has some great Voskhod rockets that aren't too expensive but will make a big difference.


 

 +1


----------



## rawrster

So my orange globe tubes came yesterday and I should have a set of tubes from Rob coming later this week or early next. Just about everything I own is new so it's going to take some time to figure out where sound changes are coming from. I think I'm done with buying tubes for some time. I need to buy some tube boxes or find some place to store my tubes since none of them came with boxes but I'll figure it out as they come. I can see how tube amps can get expensive pretty quick...


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> So my orange globe tubes came yesterday and I should have a set of tubes from Rob coming later this week or early next. Just about everything I own is new so it's going to take some time to figure out where sound changes are coming from. I think I'm done with buying tubes for some time. I need to buy some tube boxes or find some place to store my tubes since none of them came with boxes but I'll figure it out as they come. I can see how tube amps can get expensive pretty quick...


 

 Talk to ThurstonX he is the tube box master.   I use some boxes with foam inserts cut out in the shape of a tube. The good part about tube amps - you can tailor to your system, HPs, ears, tastes.  Then if you get new equipment or just get a little bored - change things up with a simple tube swap.  With solid state it's one size fits all.


----------



## sfo1972

sling5s said:


> +1


 

 +2


----------



## sfo1972

rawrster said:


> So my orange globe tubes came yesterday and I should have a set of tubes from Rob coming later this week or early next. Just about everything I own is new so it's going to take some time to figure out where sound changes are coming from. I think I'm done with buying tubes for some time. I need to buy some tube boxes or find some place to store my tubes since none of them came with boxes but I'll figure it out as they come. I can see how tube amps can get expensive pretty quick...


 

 What tube boxes are you considering? I struggled with this problem for some time until I found a good solution


----------



## jexby

sfo1972 said:


> What tube boxes are you considering? I struggled with this problem for some time until I found a good solution




Ok I'll bite-
What was your tube storage solution?


----------



## sfo1972

jexby said:


> Ok I'll bite-
> What was your tube storage solution?


 

 Hahaha...ok here it goes, watch storage boxes. They are cheap, elegant, come in different sizes, and have a window to look through them. Here is the one I chose:

  

  
 I also printed pieces of paper with the year and model of the tube and placed it under the tube for easy identification. The right most compartment holds spacers and other trinkets.
  
 These boxes come in 4s, 6s, 8s, 10s, and I have seen them go up to 24 compartments. All based on the number of tubes you have and how many boxes you would like to have. You can go multiple of these or one large one, just a matter of taste.


----------



## TeddyShot

I just recieved my new Sennehiser HD 650s , after waiting a month and a half for them after returning a prevous pair, and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with how they pair with the Lyr 2. They sound rediculously bass light, especially compared to my previous amp, the Cayin C5 which was very neutral and really brought the bass out of the 650s. I was expecting more since this amp cost me twice the C5s price. 

Note I am using the stick tubes on my Lyr 2, so maybe those are very bass light? Though the detail is on point.


----------



## reddog

teddyshot said:


> I just recieved my new Sennehiser HD 650s , after waiting a month and a half for them after returning a prevous pair, and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with how they pair with the Lyr 2. They sound rediculously bass light, especially compared to my previous amp, the Cayin C5 which was very neutral and really brought the bass out of the 650s. I was expecting more since this amp cost me twice the C5s price.
> 
> Note I am using the stick tubes on my Lyr 2, so maybe those are very bass light? Though the detail is on point.



I did not like to stock tubes ( before burn in) and I got some Genalex Gold Lions, which boost the bass without bleeding into the mids. The mids are smoother, lusher sounding. The treble has no sibilance. The SOUNDSTAGE opens up and seems more holographic. 
 However for half the price of gold lions, you can find some fantastic vokshods NOS tubes, which are supposed to be fantastic. Hope you find a set of tubes that make your HD 650's sing.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Them tubes need to cook for at the very least 50 hours. Imo , the stock tubes aren't that great. PM @rb2013 for some awesome 6n23p Voskhod tubes. He has different years to fit most budgets. I'm at 140 hours on mine and they still make subtle changes for the better. 





teddyshot said:


> I just recieved my new Sennehiser HD 650s , after waiting a month and a half for them after returning a prevous pair, and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with how they pair with the Lyr 2. They sound rediculously bass light, especially compared to my previous amp, the Cayin C5 which was very neutral and really brought the bass out of the 650s. I was expecting more since this amp cost me twice the C5s price.
> 
> Note I am using the stick tubes on my Lyr 2, so maybe those are very bass light? Though the detail is on point.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Hahaha...ok here it goes, watch storage boxes. They are cheap, elegant, come in different sizes, and have a window to look through them. Here is the one I chose:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Awesome!  Very cool!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> +1 Awesome!  Very cool!


 

 Thank. Glad you guys liked the idea, there are a lot of these boxes on eBay, and I am also sure from local sellers in your market.  Here is a cool 20 compartment box on eBay:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-20-Slot-Leather-Watch-Box-Display-Case-Organizer-Glass-Top-Jewelry-Storage-/400516811332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d40a98a44


----------



## Guidostrunk

I scooped up one of these to hold tube I aquire along the way. Seems easy to mod the foam for nice secure placement. Priced pretty reasonably too. 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181641174840&alt=web


----------



## TeddyShot

guidostrunk said:


> Them tubes need to cook for at the very least 50 hours. Imo , the stock tubes aren't that great. PM @rb2013 for some awesome 6n23p Voskhod tubes. He has different years to fit most budgets. I'm at 140 hours on mine and they still make subtle changes for the better.




I bought the Lyr 2 used but in Like New condition a month ago, I've been using it occasionally with a pair of 598s, so I think the tubes have burned in. I am interested in buying a new pair of tubes, but they need to be in the great performance for the money budget range ($30-$50). I'm not sure if the tubes you mentioned fit that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Send @rb2013 a pm. He'll hook you up. Trust me. I've bought 4 sets of tubes from him. He's a great guy. 





teddyshot said:


> I bought the Lyr 2 used but in Like New condition a month ago, I've been using it occasionally with a pair of 598s, so I think the tubes have burned in. I am interested in buying a new pair of tubes, but they need to be in the great performance for the money budget range ($30-$50). I'm not sure if the tubes you mentioned fit that.


----------



## rawrster

Those are nice suggestions. I've seen some other pictures where they use jewelry b oxes for tube storage. I think I'm going to buy a bunch of generic small tube boxes from tube depot (can't remember which one it was) but it seemed cheap and I could store them in my drawer which I don't use except for storing cables I don't use.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> I scooped up one of these to hold tube I aquire along the way. Seems easy to mod the foam for nice secure placement. Priced pretty reasonably too.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181641174840&alt=web




Dude that's awesome! Looks official and industrial...bonus.

How did you mod the foam? It seems like a dense block of foam without much possibility of levels. The case looks like it take tens of tubes but compartmentalization might be difficult.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Haven't decided on which way to mod it yet.lol. It has layers of foam. I'm thinking tackle box style, where I can label the layers. I probably won't aquire more than 4 or 5 sets of tubes. The nice thing about the case , is that it's water and shock proof. 





sfo1972 said:


> Dude that's awesome! Looks official and industrial...bonus.
> 
> How did you mod the foam? It seems like a dense block of foam without much possibility of levels. The case looks like it take tens of tubes but compartmentalization might be difficult.


----------



## Guidostrunk

.


----------



## sfo1972

Guidostrunk Please keep me posted with what you decide to do. Take lots of pics along the way. Your 007 bullet proof case is on my hit list now


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely. Lol 



sfo1972 said:


> Guidostrunk Please keep me posted with what you decide to do. Take lots of pics along the way. Your 007 bullet proof case is on my hit list now


----------



## TeddyShot

Does anybody here have experience with the Lyr 2 (Stock Tubes) and Sennheiser HD 650 combination. I have said amp with the stock tubes and I'm not sure if the tubes are on the bright side or Sennheiser did a driver tweak on the 2014 Rev lol. They sound really neutral and a little bit bright, which is okay, but I like the slight bass emphasis I use to get on the older pair (Latest Silver Box Model) I returned. At that time I owned a Cayin C5 amp, a very nuetral amp, which did wonders with the 650s, it was almost perfect. But then I decided to upgrade and sold it for the Lyr 2...

I do plan on buying a new set of tubes, but I would like to know the experiences you guys have had with said combination and gain setting.


----------



## oletuv

sathyam said:


> For me the big thing with the Lyr was the ability to change the character of amplification by tube rolling. As a beginner tube roller, I was a bit skeptical. Boy, was I wrong. On my Lyr 2, I switched to Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio. The transformation was stunning! Like night and day. Crystal clear music with all frequencies in balance. My setup included AK240 as source and Alpha Dogs as headphones. I tried all genres of music. Started with my favorite Pink Floyd and ended with Four Seasons, with a lot of Jazz, Alternative, New Age and Indian Classical in between.


 
  
 What is the difference between the Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/ and the ones from Telefunken Elektroakustik http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-vacuum-tube?pp=24 ?


----------



## Puzzles

oletuv said:


> What is the difference between the Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/ and the ones from Telefunken Elektroakustik http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-vacuum-tube?pp=24 ?


 
  
 These black label Telefunkens are selected (?) and cryotreated JJ tubes. No genuine Telefunkens.


----------



## reddog

puzzles said:


> These black label Telefunkens are selected (?) and cryotreated JJ tubes. No genuine Telefunkens.



The Telefunken TK are current production tubes, while the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes are NOS/ old production. I scored a pair of Telefunken TK's a few months ago and they are starting to grow on me after and extensive burn in (400 +) hours) The Telefunken TK's bass is tighter more textured. The mids have become more detailed yet a bit more smooth. The treble is also textured. It seems the tubes add to the quality of the sound but not much to the quantity of the sound. The sound stage seems to open up do to the added detail and texture of the sound. My favorite cans, with these tubes , are my Beyerdynamic Dt 880 600 ohms . But I do like these tubes, with my Alpha Prime's, now and then. These tubes are more natural/ neutral sounding than my favorite current production tubes the Genalex Gold Lions. In some ways the Telefunken TK tubes compliment the overall sound signature of the AP'S more so than the Gold Lions. But the Gold Lions have a touch more bass and scratches my need, when I am jonesing for bass.
Andrew Reddog Jones.


----------



## 5kylon

Oh no, a schiity noob question;
  
 Is the Lyr 2, being a hybrid tube amp, suitable for fast-paced music such as electronica (read: a lot of drums, and bass melodies),
 or would a SS amp, such as Asgaard 2, cope better with such faster music?
  
 If not, could tube rolling resolve this?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm currently using the lyr1 , and it does an excellent job with Deadmau5 & Infected Mushroom. I'm also running some upgraded tubes in the lyr. The nice thing about the lyr/lyr2 , is you can taylor the sound to your liking with different tubes. With SS, you're pretty much stuck with the sound. 





5kylon said:


> Oh no, a schiity noob question;
> 
> Is the Lyr 2, being a hybrid tube amp, suitable for fast-paced music such as electronica (read: a lot of drums, and bass melodies),
> or would a SS amp, such as Asgaard 2, cope better with such faster music?
> ...


----------



## 5kylon

Thanks for the insight Guidostrunk.
 Out of curiousity, which tubes did you get and how did they change the character of the sound?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm currently using a pair of 75 6n23p SWPG-Silver Russian holy grails. To put it in perspective, stock was like listening to music in a tin can with a small window of music in front of my face. The 75's give me the sense of a 6 foot globe of music surrounding my head, with some notes and sounds extending much further. The 3d , holographic , liquid flow and precise imaging of these tubes is simply sublime. But it's all subjective. YMMV. I'd recommend them to anyone rolling tubes. 


5kylon said:


> Thanks for the insight Guidostrunk.
> Out of curiousity, which tubes did you get and how did they change the character of the sound?


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> I'm currently using a pair of 75 6n23p SWPG-Silver Russian holy grails. To put it in perspective, stock was like listening to music in a tin can with a small window of music in front of my face. The 75's give me the sense of a 6 foot globe of music surrounding my head, with some notes and sounds extending much further. The 3d , holographic , liquid flow and precise imaging of these tubes is simply sublime. But it's all subjective. YMMV. I'd recommend them to anyone rolling tubes.




Great description buddy! I just passed the 55 hours mark on my HGs and preparing for the 'grand slam' this weekend. I am all geeked up man


----------



## 5kylon

excellent... *slowly rolling handpalms together*


----------



## sfo1972

@Guidostrunk, I am still waiting ....impatiently may I add...... for the pics of your 'jujitsu', industructable, bullet proof, sledge hammer, fist fight companion, and 007 tube bag. Any progress on that? Did you get it?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks man. I'm somewhere past a 100. Not sure how far though. Lol. Definitely more open than the 50 hour mark. The soundstage imo has doubled in size. They seem to get more "buttery" the more I burn them. If that analogy makes any sense. Lol. 

Great job on your thread man. That's going to help so many with the lyr2. 





sfo1972 said:


> Great description buddy! I just passed the 55 hours mark on my HGs and preparing for the 'grand slam' this weekend. I am all geeked up man


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. It's at my office still sitting in the packaging. Haven't left the house in days because of the frigid temps. I plan on messing with it this weekend. Will post some pics 


sfo1972 said:


> @Guidostrunk, I am still waiting ....impatiently may I add...... for the pics of your 'jujitsu', industructable, bullet proof, sledge hammer, fist fight companion, and 007 tube bag. Any progress on that? Did you get it?


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Thanks man. I'm somewhere past a 100. Not sure how far though. Lol. Definitely more open than the 50 hour mark. The soundstage imo has doubled in size. They seem to get more "buttery" the more I burn them. If that analogy makes any sense. Lol.
> 
> Great job on your thread man. That's going to help so many with the lyr2.




Thanks man. I think it's the least I can do after learning so much from these guys on the thread. Like you, I feel we would have been stuck with crappy sound with the stock tubes and be at a total loss without the help of the veterans on the thread. Learned A lot in the process and have become really critical and Leary of super priced tubes.

Have you seen some of the top end teles, they go for $500 per tube :eek:
That's a friggin 1000 bucks for the pair...insane.

Have fun rolling buddy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah bro. Those prices are absolutely insane. Lol. 





sfo1972 said:


> Thanks man. I think it's the least I can do after learning so much from these guys on the thread. Like you, I feel we would have been stuck with crappy sound with the stock tubes and be at a total loss without the help of the veterans on the thread. Learned A lot in the process and have become really critical and Leary of super priced tubes.
> 
> Have you seen some of the top end teles, they go for $500 per tube :eek:
> That's a friggin 1000 bucks for the pair...insane.
> ...


----------



## Mr Rick

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks man. I think it's the least I can do after learning so much from these guys on the thread. Like you, I feel we would have been stuck with crappy sound with the stock tubes and be at a total loss without the help of the veterans on the thread. Learned A lot in the process and have become really critical and Leary of super priced tubes.
> 
> Have you seen some of the top end teles, they go for $500 per tube
> 
> ...


 
 Let me make a small correction. The stock tubes on the Lyr2 are not crappy. Many people are quite happy with the sound from the stock tubes. Do you really think Schiit would risk their reputation buy putting out a sub-par product.
  
 Tubes in an amp are like tires on a car. Many people are very happy with the original tires that come as standard equipment. However there are those that would like to try different tires to improve their perceived performance. Neither person is right or wrong in their decision.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Correct. It's all in the ears of individual people. My ears told me the stock tubes were the donut tire in the trunk, as opposed to the all terrain wranglers I'm currently riding on. Lol. It's all subjective in the end.


mr rick said:


> Let me make a small correction. The stock tubes on the Lyr2 are not crappy. Many people are quite happy with the sound from the stock tubes. Do you really think Schiit would risk their reputation buy putting out a sub-par product.
> 
> Tubes in an amp are like tires on a car. Many people are very happy with the original tires that come as standard equipment. However there are those that would like to try different tires to improve their perceived performance. Neither person is right or wrong in their decision.


----------



## sfo1972

mr rick said:


> Let me make a small correction. The stock tubes on the Lyr2 are not crappy. Many people are quite happy with the sound from the stock tubes. Do you really think Schiit would risk their reputation buy putting out a sub-par product.
> 
> Tubes in an amp are like tires on a car. Many people are very happy with the original tires that come as standard equipment. However there are those that would like to try different tires to improve their perceived performance. Neither person is right or wrong in their decision.




Fair enough. I stand corrected sir


----------



## Xoen

5kylon said:


> Oh no, a schiity noob question;
> 
> Is the Lyr 2, being a hybrid tube amp, suitable for fast-paced music such as electronica (read: a lot of drums, and bass melodies),
> or would a SS amp, such as Asgaard 2, cope better with such faster music?
> ...


 
 I use my Lyr 2 for all kinds of music, including "fast paced electronica".  I don't see how this amp can be incompatible or unsuitable with certain genres of music.


----------



## 5kylon

xoen said:


> I use my Lyr 2 for all kinds of music, including "fast paced electronica".  I don't see how this amp can be incompatible or unsuitable with certain genres of music.


 
 Exactly what I wanted to hear. =).


----------



## RedBull

Is there anyone having both lyr 2 and project ember care to share comparison in terms of sq only? Particularly im driving around hd800, hd650, h600, lcd 2.

Thanks.


----------



## bwmarrin

5kylon said:


> Exactly what I wanted to hear. =).


 
  
 I'll add in as well.  I'll go from some vocal slow Jazz, maybe some  Piano, and then sometimes Skrillix.  So far, I've been real happy with how everything sounds.


----------



## amigastar

redbull said:


> Is there anyone having both lyr 2 and project ember care to share comparison in terms of sq only? Particularly im driving around hd800, hd650, h600, lcd 2.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I'm also curious.


----------



## money4me247

amigastar said:


> I'm also curious.




i have seen a direct comparison somewhere on headfi before, but cant seem to find it. just one direct review, rest were compared against previously owned one.


----------



## RedBull

I think i saw one comparison between lyr 1 and project starlight, but not ember.
The other comparison is mainly more into usability (removing tubes) and not focused on the sound alone.


----------



## sling5s

I'm comparing my Lyr 2 with top of the line tubes: 75 Reflectors HG with Vali and the Vali is about 90-95% of the Lyr 2 with those tubes.
  
 The difference is the Lyr 2's bass goes lower and has more presence and treble is a little more extended and airy while the Vali is more mid centric, more mid bass punch and slightly more lively and upfront.  
  
 Overall the Lyr 2 is slightly more well balanced, smoother and refined and it's mostly because of the 75 Reflectors that it's more detailed and layered. Hence the Lyr 2 is very immersive.  You can get lost in the layered details. But again the Vali gets your toe tapping and head bopping and sucks you into the music.  It's a fun little amp. 
  
 But dang, when you consider that the tubes on the Lyr 2 cost more than the Vali itself, you can't help love the Vali more.  I mean, the sound signature of the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali are very scary similar... too close.  Of course throw in different tubes on the Lyr 2 and they sound completely different, but with these Russian Voskhod and Reflectors, they share a very similar sound signature.
  
 This is all with LCD-2F with Uber Bifrost.  To give some background, in the past, I had the Vali and sold it to get the Lyr 2 but recently repurchased it.  Back then when I purchases the Lyr 2, I was initially very disappointment and what I thought was a downgrade from Vali.  I mean the Vali kills the Lyr 2 with stock tubes.  But it was only when the Lyr 2 had the Top of the Line tubes that the Lyr 2 surpassed the Vali. And it was only by a small amount, at least to my ears.  I say small also because I prefer the sound signature of the Vali over the Lyr2.  It's a preference thing. 
  
 (positing also in Vali thread)


----------



## lekoross

Are you running the '75 Reflektors in the Valhalla as well? Is it the V1 or V2?


----------



## RedBull

sling5s said:


> I'm comparing my Lyr 2 with top of the line tubes: 75 Reflectors HG with Vali and the Vali is about 90-95% of the Lyr 2 with those tubes.
> 
> The difference is the Lyr 2's bass and treble is a little more extended while the Vali is more mid centric and slightly more lively.
> The Lyr 2 is slightly more well balanced, smoother and refined and it's mostly because of the 75 Reflectors that it's slightly more detailed and layered. But dang, it's hard to tell the difference between the two.  The sound signature of the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali are very scary similar... too close.
> ...




Thanks. I can quite imagine lyr 2 sound based on your description in comparison to Vali, that i have.


----------



## sling5s

To my years the difference between the lyr 2 with 75 reflectors and Vali is like LCD-2f and LCD/3f. It is a step up but it's not huge. But that's subjective. I like the Vali because of its mid centric and lively sound.


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> Thanks. I can quite imagine lyr 2 sound based on your description in comparison to Vali, that i have.



To my ears the difference between the lyr 2 with 75 reflectors and Vali is like LCD-2f and LCD/3f. It is a step up but it's not huge. But that's subjective. I like the Vali because of its mid centric and lively sound.


----------



## Xoen

sling5s said:


> I'm comparing my Lyr 2 with top of the line tubes: 75 Reflectors HG with Vali and the Vali is about 90-95% of the Lyr 2 with those tubes.
> 
> The difference is the Lyr 2's bass and treble is a little more extended while the Vali is more mid centric and slightly more lively.
> The Lyr 2 is slightly more well balanced, smoother and refined and it's mostly because of the 75 Reflectors that it's slightly more detailed and layered. But dang, it's hard to tell the difference between the two.  The sound signature of the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali are very scary similar... too close.
> ...


 
 Interesting.  I wasn't all that impressed with the stock tubes on my Lyr 2 either.  It sounded too shrill at times and lacked some bass impact.  Mids sounded pretty smooth however and had a decent soundstage.  All of that changed for the better when I rolled the stock tubes into my Gold Lions E88CC's.  Upon replacing the stock tubes and burning them in, I thought that this is how the Lyr 2 should sound like!  Planning on rolling more tubes for my Lyr 2, but I'm saving up for the Schiit Ragnarok amp and Gungir DAC.


----------



## RedBull

sling5s said:


> To my years the difference between the lyr 2 with 75 reflectors and Vali is like LCD-2f and LCD/3f. It is a step up but it's not huge. But that's subjective. I like the Vali because of its mid centric and lively sound.




That's right, Vali has the addictive lively sound.
After listening to Vali, other amps will likely sound boring, hahaha.


----------



## sling5s

redbull said:


> Thanks. I can quite imagine lyr 2 sound based on your description in comparison to Vali, that i have.


 

 But put different tubes on the Lyr 2 and it sounds completely different than the Vali. It's just with these russian Voskhod and Reflectors, that they sound similar.


----------



## BobFiggins

Looking at returning my Valhalla 2 and picking up a Lyr 2. I have an HD700, and the harsh treble still hasn't been properly tamed. "sss" sounds, and a bit of white noise happen in nearly every track unless I push 9.5khz down by -8dB. This happens whether I use 44/48 flac, or just the standard 320kbps Google Play Music. I am also plugged in via optical (USB did the same).
  
 Would you guys recommend the Lyr 2 to help with the treble, also some tubes to further increase this effect? Or do you think the Vali would be a better option? The Lyr 2 is easily in my budget, though it really depends on the tubes. I'd prefer to just use the stock ones, but if I can get some good tubes for like $50 I'd say it would be worth it. Would still like to know regardless if the Lyr 2 would tame the treble with the stock tubes.
  
 Just to re-iterate, I'm new to tube amps, and don't know much about rolling or different tubes. So to make it simple this is what I'm asking:
  
 To tame the HD700 treble:
 Modi 2 Uber + Vali?
 Modi 2 Uber + Lyr 2?
 (Least preferred) Modi 2 Uber + Lyr 2 + new tubes? (Genalex Gold Lions? Are these good?)
  
 I would really appreciate your help, thanks!
  
 Oh, and just to throw it out there, I absolutely LOVE the sound of the HD700, except for the harsh treble. If that was tamed, I'd be in absolute love. A SinglePower MPX3 tube amp did the trick, but they are a bit pricey, and I hear there are some quality issues with the transformers in them. As someone who should not be trying to DIY things (I would probably break it), this isn't a good option.


----------



## NoxNoctum

Does anyone find that the Lyr has any advantages/differences over the Lyr 2 or is it purely a no-reason-not-to upgrade situation?


----------



## tjl5709

audiotic said:


> The 10-fold price sifference buys you silicone damping. Probably useful against microphony. I got them, as I want to be absolutely sure I het "the best", whatever that is
> On top of that, they ship them BEAUTIFULLY!


 

 I had the cheaper alternatives, and now these. The best part for me is they raise the tube higher. Pros: Less heat inside the amp, tube dissipates heat easier, and easier to grab tube to swap. Cons: Tube sticking up higher could be more vulnerable to accidents.


----------



## tjl5709

teddyshot said:


> Does anybody here have experience with the Lyr 2 (Stock Tubes) and Sennheiser HD 650 combination. I have said amp with the stock tubes and I'm not sure if the tubes are on the bright side or Sennheiser did a driver tweak on the 2014 Rev lol. They sound really neutral and a little bit bright, which is okay, but I like the slight bass emphasis I use to get on the older pair (Latest Silver Box Model) I returned. At that time I owned a Cayin C5 amp, a very nuetral amp, which did wonders with the 650s, it was almost perfect. But then I decided to upgrade and sold it for the Lyr 2...
> 
> I do plan on buying a new set of tubes, but I would like to know the experiences you guys have had with said combination and gain setting.


 
 I'm running the same set-up. Gain switch is up. The HD650's need better tubes. The stock ones are just OK. The best bang for the buck I found were Amperex orange globes and Buggle Boys. Go to the tube roller page and search HD650. Tons of info. But do it at your own risk. Tube rolling can be addictive (i.e. expensive). Don't ask me how I know....................


----------



## persself

bobfiggins said:


> Looking at returning my Valhalla 2 and picking up a Lyr 2. I have an HD700, and the harsh treble still hasn't been properly tamed. "sss" sounds, and a bit of white noise happen in nearly every track unless I push 9.5khz down by -8dB. This happens whether I use 44/48 flac, or just the standard 320kbps Google Play Music. I am also plugged in via optical (USB did the same).
> 
> Would you guys recommend the Lyr 2 to help with the treble, also some tubes to further increase this effect? Or do you think the Vali would be a better option? The Lyr 2 is easily in my budget, though it really depends on the tubes. I'd prefer to just use the stock ones, but if I can get some good tubes for like $50 I'd say it would be worth it. Would still like to know regardless if the Lyr 2 would tame the treble with the stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 I can't speak about the Vali, but Lyr2 + Gold Lions tamed my shrill/bright "harsh" treble. But I also use T1 headphones.  The stock tubes were too bright to my ears.
 Go back in this thread to page 47 and you will see Xoen and others comments about this with me. I found the GL's on ebay; I added a link during that discussion as well.
 $76'ish shipped.


----------



## sfo1972

persself said:


> I can't speak about the Vali, but Lyr2 + Gold Lions tamed my shrill/bright "harsh" treble. But I also use T1 headphones.  The stock tubes were too bright to my ears.
> Go back in this thread to page 47 and you will see Xoen and others comments about this with me. I found the GL's on ebay; I added a link during that discussion as well.
> $76'ish shipped.




Thanks for the info. Just curious about a couple of things if you don't mind me asking. 
How long of a burn in did you give your GL? And
How do you characterize the sound signature compared to stock (namely soundstage, bass, and highs)


----------



## Xoen

The GLs starts to open up at about 20-30 hours burn in time from my experience. By the 100 hour or so mark they seem to reach their full potential. 


sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the info. Just curious about a couple of things if you don't mind me asking.
> How long of a burn in did you give your GL? And
> How do you characterize the sound signature compared to stock (namely soundstage, bass, and highs)


----------



## rb2013

noxnoctum said:


> Does anyone find that the Lyr has any advantages/differences over the Lyr 2 or is it purely a no-reason-not-to upgrade situation?


 

 If you are using very low impedance HPs like the 702's or IEM's the gain switch is a must.  For other HPs - the Lyr2 offers slightly low noise do to a change in the tube heater circuit from AC to DC.  And some additional PS filtering.  But the tube choices were narrowed do to the lower current limit of the PS changes.
  
 I have heard both and on my HD800's they sound almost identical - same MOSFET class A outputs (with the same tubes).  Both are very sensitive to tube changes so respond well to better tubes (see the Lyr Tube Rolling thread).
  
 I have a few extra pairs of the excellent '70's Voskhods for under $50 - PM if interested. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the info. Just curious about a couple of things if you don't mind me asking.
> How long of a burn in did you give your GL? And
> How do you characterize the sound signature compared to stock (namely soundstage, bass, and highs)



The Gold Lions add to the bass, without leaking into the mids. Th e mids become smoother and highs are spot on. The soundstage opens up and becomes more holographic.. I thought the GL's burned in pretty well after 100 hours, but they seem to get better with extended burn in.


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> The Gold Lions add to the bass, without leaking into the mids. Th e mids become smoother and highs are spot on. The soundstage opens up and becomes more holographic.. I thought the GL's burned in pretty well after 100 hours, but they seem to get better with extended burn in.


 

 Thanks reddog.....Man I am seriously thinking about picking up a pair of these now. The price is right and it will give a different perspective being modern make tubes. They go for about 69-70 a pair I believe. Is eBay the way to go or one of the other warehouses?


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks reddog.....Man I am seriously thinking about picking up a pair of these now. The price is right and it will give a different perspective being modern make tubes. They go for about 69-70 a pair I believe. Is eBay the way to go or one of the other warehouses?



That's hard to say. If the merchant/ seller, on EBay, has a good rep get the tubes from them. If not get the Gold Lions from the warehouses / internet stores, like Upscaleaudio or Tube World. I like trying modern production tubes, just because, they are less expensive than the hard to find NOS tubes. Another good modern production tube, after extensive burn is the Telefunken TK E88CC tubes. But my favorite current production tubes are the Gold Lions.


----------



## persself

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the info. Just curious about a couple of things if you don't mind me asking.
> How long of a burn in did you give your GL? And
> How do you characterize the sound signature compared to stock (namely soundstage, bass, and highs)


 
 Sorry late reply; but what they said above. 'Cept I haven't put more than 20hrs or so burn in thus far. Life has a way of interrupting. 
 Anyway, I did notice an immediate difference from the stock tubes, minus any burn in. Very impressed by that.
 The guy I referenced on eBay p.47 of this thread had great reviews, and I got mine fast with decent packaging/no damage.


----------



## crixnet

A few dumb questions from a new Lyr 2 owner in search of tube advice.
  
 What are the differences in Gold Lions when the options are:
  
 - Gold grade
 - Platinum grade
 - Cryogenically treated
  
 What are the SQ differences between Gold Lions and Telefunkens?
  
 Which socket savers are good, and where can I find them?


----------



## rb2013

Just my 2 cents - I have heard all the new production tubes GL's, EH's, Sovtek, Black Sables, JJ, etc..even the Russian 6n23p-EV and -EB.
  
 None can compare in SQ to a lower priced pair of vintage tubes.  The Amperex Orange Globes can be had for $40/pr same for the '71-'73 Voskhod SWGP 6n23p.
  
 That's half the price of the GL's.
  
 I think many here who post about the 'greatness' of the GL's have very limited experience with other tubes.  They are better then the stock tubes - but are very expensive for what they give you.
  
 I have rolled over 50 different 6922 types in my Lyr over the last few years - you can get better. YMMV.
  
 PS Where the GL's are good if you have a pre-amp that needs 6 or more matched tubes (like the CJ-16ls) - that becomes very hard to find in the vintage market.  But pairs are easy to find.  There is a thread dedicated to tube rolling in the Lyr - which is a good source.  Just post your preferences, and system and you will get recommendations. http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5325
  
 Cheers!


----------



## sling5s

I think I'm trying to justify the cost of Lyr 2 with 75 HG Reflector tubes over the Vali and at the same time not sound like a idiot.
 So I feel like I'm trying to say to myself the Lyr 2 is better.
  
 But when I'm casually listening, I can't tell the difference between the two. The Lye 2 with 75 HG and Vali sound signature sound so similar and they perform on such a similar level, it's really hard to tell the difference.
  
 You got to really listen for the difference.  Yes, the Lyr 2 bass goes lower and the treble extends slightly higher and sound stage slightly more open and slightly more detailed and layered while the Vali has more mid bass oriented and mid centric and sounds little more intimate but these differences are very subtle... at least on my LCD-2F.
  
 I feel like I'm keeping the Lyr 2 just because it looks better stacked on top of the Uber Bifrost.
  
 All that you love about the Voskhod and Reflectors, the Vali does it, really well!


----------



## sfo1972

crixnet said:


> A few dumb questions from a new Lyr 2 owner in search of tube advice.
> 
> What are the differences in Gold Lions when the options are:
> 
> ...


 

 Don't worry man and ask all your questions - most of us are here to learn and discover.
  
 I will leave the Gold and Platinum question for someone else to answer -  
  
 Is your SQ question regarding new production Telefunkens or Gold Lions vs. vintage/New Old Stock (NOS)?
  
 Here are links to socket savers. I bought the ones from eBay but both options will give you good results:
 Tubemonger:
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
 eBay:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-9pin-Generic-Tube-Socket-Testing-Saver-12AX7-12AT7-12AU7-6DJ8-ECC82-6922-/221139965944?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337cf817f8


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> I think I'm trying to justify the cost of Lyr 2 with 75 HG Reflector tubes over the Vali and at the same time not sound like a idiot.
> So I feel like I'm trying to say to myself the Lyr 2 is better.
> 
> But when I'm casually listening, I can't tell the difference between the two. The Lye 2 with 75 HG and Vali sound signature sound so similar and they perform on such a similar level, it's really hard to tell the difference.
> ...


 

 Thanks for your detailed comments - I have always wondered about the Vali.  And will get one to mod - upgrade the caps and a few other tweeks inside. I absolutely love my Lyr!  I had a tricked out Woo WA6-SE before - and to me the Lyr with the right tubes is better.  More dynamic and exciting.  With all the NOS tubes and upgrades on my WOO I was in over $1800.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## RedBull

sling5s said:


> But put different tubes on the Lyr 2 and it sounds completely different than the Vali. It's just with these russian Voskhod and Reflectors, that they sound similar.




I see. It's still hard to find comparison with the Ember though.


----------



## sling5s

Just of follow up and balance my comments with different headphone.  While I found very subtle differences between the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali, with my PS 500e, I find greater difference.  The sound signature is still some what close...but the Lyr 2 is definitely more open, deeper, wider in soundstage with more detailed and layered than the Vali.  The Vali is more closed in and intimate and more mid centric.  
  
 It may be a matter of synergy and preference but with the LCD-2F, I prefer the Vali, but with the PS 500e, I prefer the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors. 
 I also think the LCD-2F is just a more forgiving headphone.  So the differences don't stand out as much.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sling5s said:


> Just of follow up and balance my comments with different headphone.  While I found very subtle differences between the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali, with my PS 500e, I find greater difference.  The sound signature is still some what close...but the Lyr 2 is definitely more open, deeper, wider in soundstage with more detailed and layered than the Vali.  The Vali is more closed in and intimate and more mid centric.
> 
> It may be a matter of synergy and preference but with the LCD-2F, I prefer the Vali, but with the PS 500e, I prefer the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors.
> I also think the LCD-2F is just a more forgiving headphone.  So the differences don't stand out as much.




Good to hear, haven't used my PS500e on my desktop rig much, sounds like I need too strap the Grados to t Lyr 2! Thanks Sling!!!


----------



## BobFiggins

rb2013 said:


> I had a tricked out Woo WA6-SE before - and to me the Lyr with the right tubes is better.


 
 This comment makes me happy. To me, the WA6 was my endgame choice for the HD700 (not endgame for everything though, this hobby will drain my wallet forever). I also would prefer to spend a bit less to get the same performance.


----------



## HPiper

bobfiggins said:


> This comment makes me happy. To me, the WA6 was my endgame choice for the HD700 (not endgame for everything though, this hobby will drain my wallet forever). I also would prefer to spend a bit less to get the same performance.


 

 I swapped out the stock tubes for some orange globes and never looked back. All my Senn's love the Lyr with those tubes in it. My T1 sounds the best I have ever heard it with that combo.


----------



## BobFiggins

hpiper said:


> I swapped out the stock tubes for some orange globes and never looked back. All my Senn's love the Lyr with those tubes in it. My T1 sounds the best I have ever heard it with that combo.


 
 Any preferred place to buy the orange globes, and gold lions?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a nice pair from a fellow head-fier, at a great price. I bought a pair of tubes from him myself. Great guy. http://www.head-fi.org/t/756453/pair-of-orange-globe-6dj8#post_11355460


bobfiggins said:


> Any preferred place to buy the orange globes, and gold lions?


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> This comment makes me happy. To me, the WA6 was my endgame choice for the HD700 (not endgame for everything though, this hobby will drain my wallet forever). I also would prefer to spend a bit less to get the same performance.


 

 The Woo WA6-SE is the step up after the WA6, and one of Woo's top amps (it uses a beefed up and separate PS).
  
 If you think the Lyr/Lyr2 is good with the OG's or GL's you should hear it with a nice pair of vintage '70s Voskhod 6n23p's for less money.
  
 PS If you want to get an idea of what the Vintage Voskhod Rockets can do in the Lyr - here is the review I wrote over a year ago on the Lyr Tube Rolling thread
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 There is more to this amazing amp then what the OG's and GL's can provide.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## BobFiggins

rb2013 said:


> The Woo WA6-SE is the step up after the WA6, and one of Woo's top amps


 
 Oh, I meant just the WA6 then, oops.
  
 Vali just arrived, initial impressions: (posting this here as this is really the deciding factor for getting a Lyr. Based off of seeing some of you say there's a similarity in sound.)
  
 To me, the Vali sounds a lot more relaxed than the Valhalla 2. Like the Valhalla 2 has this energy to get my blood pumping, but the Vali makes me want to just lean back and relax to the music. I guess this goes with people saying it brings the mids forward. I am hearing a lot more background noises with the Vali than I was with the Valhalla 2. For instance, Ekki mukk by Sigur Ros has some background noise at the start before everything begins. With the Valhalla 2 that is really hard to hear, with the Vali it stands out. The song Sea Of Voices by Porter Robinson sounds way too relaxed with the Vali, it's not nearly as interesting and exciting as it is with the Valhalla 2. Switch that right around with Fellow Feeling by Porter Robinson, sounds amazing on the Vali (Specifically the beginning before it goes crazy).
  
 EDIT: I feel like sending the Vali back, getting a Bifrost Uber, and eventually getting a Lyr 2 as my somewhat-endgame amp to play with tubes. I've found I barely need to touch the EQ with the Vali, it susprisingly tames the sibilance really well. Sure songs recorded poorly will be the hardest to save, but that's alright. With that said though, push 9.5khz on the Valhalla 2 down -8dB, and I get all of that excitement, with the treble spike pushed down and it's really enjoyable. I guess you could say part of this journey was to find a setup that I didn't have to EQ. Though in the long run, this is all for my enjoyment right? I think I bought into the no EQ arguments a bit too much.


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> Oh, I meant just the WA6 then, oops.
> 
> Vali just arrived, initial impressions: (posting this here as this is really the deciding factor for getting a Lyr. Based off of seeing some of you say there's a similarity in sound.)
> 
> ...


 

 Nice comparison between the Vali and Val2 - thanks!
  
 I would try some better tubes in the Val2 - it will make a big, big difference.  As long as you stay with the 6n23p/6922/E88CC type you can use them in the Lyr2 later - they are perfectly compatible.  If you get a used Lyr1 then it can use all the signal tubes the Val2 can like the 6n1p.
  
 PM as I have a few spare pairs of the '70s vintage Voskhod 6n23p's cheap.


----------



## BobFiggins

rb2013 said:


> PM as I have a few spare pairs of the '70s vintage Voskhod 6n23p's cheap.


 
 Sure thing!
  
 Also have to say that I don't think I can return the Vali. Sure it's not as exciting as the Valhalla 2, but wow its just so relaxing. Even though I don't like it as much, it's like my ears can relax from all that impact power the Valhalla 2 is constantly dishing out. I can finally listen to all the drum & bass songs I had to skip over with the Valhalla 2 because it was too fatiguing.
  
 For instance, listen to Denmark Road and Major Happy from Fred V & Grafix. On the Valhalla 2 all those drum impacts really light up your ears. The Vali just relaxes them perfectly. Don't burn me at the stake for saying this, but the Vali + HD700 combination seriously reminds me of my M50. Just like a really improved version of the M50.
  
 Might need to skip the Bifrost Uber and just go straight for a Lyr. I want them both! Screw it, I'll just start a collection of all the Schiit. Buy one of everything.


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> Sure thing!
> 
> Also have to say that I don't think I can return the Vali. Sure it's not as exciting as the Valhalla 2, but wow its just so relaxing. Even though I don't like it as much, it's like my ears can relax from all that impact power the Valhalla 2 is constantly dishing out. I can finally listen to all the drum & bass songs I had to skip over with the Valhalla 2 because it was too fatiguing.
> 
> ...


 

 What are using for a DAC now.  Remember the Bifrost is a very smooth DAC.  So smooth with smooth - is it to much smooth? LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So will the Vali just get shelved -?


----------



## Mr Rick

bobfiggins said:


> Sure thing!
> 
> Also have to say that I don't think I can return the Vali. Sure it's not as exciting as the Valhalla 2, but wow its just so relaxing. Even though I don't like it as much, it's like my ears can relax from all that impact power the Valhalla 2 is constantly dishing out. I can finally listen to all the drum & bass songs I had to skip over with the Valhalla 2 because it was too fatiguing.
> 
> ...


 
 Now you're talking!!!  ( see my profile. ) LOL


----------



## BobFiggins

mr rick said:


> Now you're talking!!!  ( see my profile. ) LOL


 
 Oh jeeze. Sending you a PM, don't want to go off-topic more than I have, heh.


----------



## TeddyShot

When it comes to Amperex Orange Globes what should I look for to pair with my Lyr 2 and HD 650s? I've been looking around but I don't know the difference between the many models or which provide the best value.

Edit: Alos, which tubes types are compatible with the Lyr 2? I found a lot of budget Amperex Orange Globes that are ECC82 and others that are 12AU7.


----------



## sscups

Hi,
  
 Just posting comments on a set of tubes.  I have the Bifrost uber+Lyr2 and HD650's.  About 2 months now.
  
 Stock tubes were fine but wanted to try something, anything better  : )
  
 So I ordered from tctubes after getting a quick email back on a question on the matched pairs:
  
 http://tctubes.com/Genalex-Gold-Lion-6922-E88CC-matched-set.aspx
  
 Got them quickly and with their measurement specs on the boxes.  
  
 I'm not the best at comparing sound but the sound is now more dynamic, open, and if there was a veil or anything it is gone now  : )
  
 With the stock tubes the sound was just a little closed and dull.
  
 With these tubes it is definitely better.
  
 Thanks for this thread, found good feedback on the Gold Lion and also tctubes.com
 Steve


----------



## TeddyShot

Which tubes types are compatible with the Lyr 2?


----------



## jexby

teddyshot said:


> Which tubes types are compatible with the Lyr 2?





The tubes mentioned in the Lyr 2 section of the Schiit web site.


----------



## TeddyShot

jexby said:


> The tubes mentioned in the Lyr 2 section of the Schiit web site.




I've heard there are more that are compatible than the ones mentioned there. I found some 6U8A tubes that I'm interested in but im unsure if they are compatible.


----------



## jexby

teddyshot said:


> I've heard there are more that are compatible than the ones mentioned there. I found some 6U8A tubes that I'm interested in but im unsure if they are compatible.


 
  
 a simple search of 
 lyr 2 tube list
 on head-fi.org yields the amazing find of:
  
post #1


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

How would I connect a DAC with a single line out (FiiO X5) to the Lyr with a duel line in?


----------



## Mr Rick

3ternaldr4gon said:


> How would I connect a DAC with a single line out (FiiO X5) to the Lyr with a duel line in?


 
 Here you go. I assume you mean the 1/8 headphone out.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-CMR206-Stereo-Adapter/dp/B000068O33/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425587250&sr=8-1&keywords=1+8+phono+to+rca


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Thanks Rick


----------



## sfo1972

For those that haven't seen the compatibility thread, please see link below:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
  
 Several new updates to the Lyr/Lyr2 Compatibility thread. Re-arranged the listing of the tubes in the chart to hopefully a more logical order. Added 3 new parts: Socket savers & relevant posts, Deoxit gold and relevant posts, and the first draft for tube manufacturers and date codes. Will need ideas on how to make part 4 better in the coming few weeks.
  
 Please criticize as you see fit.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Audiotic

http://www.cnet.com/news/for-a-headphone-amplifier-6-watts-per-channel-is-huge/
To read!


----------



## BobFiggins

So after trying the '72 Voshkod Rockets (75/75) in the Valhalla 2, it didn't tame the HD700's hot as the sun treble. So I returned it.
  
 Next step is either the Lyr 2, or a NOS dac to smear the treble.
  
 If I wanted to be cutthroat as possible, what tube has good dynamics with a smeared/rolled off treble, but to the extremes? This being with the Lyr 2. I swear, every time I hear another sharp, painful "sss" I just want to sell these cans. The HD650 doesn't do it at all, but sadly the sound signature doesn't quite do it for me.
  
 Still don't have enough experience yet to determine if I'd like the EL-8 enough to want to replace the HD700 with it. Never listened to an LCD before.


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> So after trying the '72 Voshkod Rockets (75/75) in the Valhalla 2, it didn't tame the HD700's hot as the sun treble. So I returned it.
> 
> Next step is either the Lyr 2, or a NOS dac to smear the treble.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you read the 'Battle of the Flagships' thread here?  Here was the comment on the HD700's:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13#user_HD700


> *WEAKNESSES* *TREBLE:* The treble presentation here is awkward. In the opinion of many, the HD700 is warmer than the HD800 (the HD800 has been criticized by some for being too bright). Well, to my ears, the HD700 is even brighter and sharper. With the HD700, cymbals tend to sound a bit strident and untamed. However, as I greatly enjoy several other aspects of the HD700's sound, the treble response doesn't ruin the headphone for me. That said, I am convinced that the HD600's and HD650's treble presentation is more natural.
> 
> *SIBILANT:* Harsh treble is typically accompanied by sibilance, so this particular commentary is kind of redundant. The HD700's sound signature happens to be noticeably sibilant.


 
  
 I had similar but not as severe issues with my HD800's - a cable change to the Moon Black Dragon V2s cured that sibilant problem and then some.  So it may just be a negative quality of those HPs.


----------



## rawrster

That's what it sounds like to me as well. Amps won't change the character of the headphone that much so it's probably better to sell the HD700 and find something else.


----------



## Mr Rick

rawrster said:


> That's what it sounds like to me as well. Amps won't change the character of the headphone that much so it's probably better to sell the HD700 and find something else.


 
 ^^^^^ What he said^^^^


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> That's what it sounds like to me as well. Amps won't change the character of the headphone that much so it's probably better to sell the HD700 and find something else.


 

 Especially if it's an inherent design aspect of that HP - like trying to fight the tide.  According to David Mahler- they ranked pretty low on the list  #31 overall and a C+ for value.  In comparison the HD800's ranked #6 overall and an A for value.
  
 Other notables: HE-500 (now replaced by the HE-560's) at #17 and an A+ for value, and the LCD 2 rev2's at #11 and an A for Value.  So for the same or less money better to be had.


----------



## BobFiggins

rb2013 said:


> Especially if it's an inherent design aspect of that HP - like trying to fight the tide.  According to David Mahler- they ranked pretty low on the list  #31 overall and a C+ for value.  In comparison the HD800's ranked #6 overall and an A for value.
> 
> Other notables: HE-500 (now replaced by the HE-560's) at #17 and an A+ for value, and the LCD 2 rev2's at #11 and an A for Value.  So for the same or less money better to be had.


 
  
 Surprisingly, the HE-500 had worse sibilance than the HD700 to me. I would put the HE-500 at a 10/10 for pain, it was bad enough that I had to take them off and couldn't stand it. In comparison, the HD700 has tolerable sibilance, but still bad. Probably a 5/10 for pain. The HD650 would be a 1/10 on the strongest sibilance inducing tracks that I have.
  
 Pretty sure I'm overly sensitive to it. This could be in part that I got into audio really late in my life. Started taking this all seriously only just a year ago. Before that listening to music with headphones was just something to boost my mood while doing work, and with headphones that were not detailed enough to make me notice any issues (M50).
  
 I find the HD700's to be very enjoyable when EQ'd down really hard in the trouble areas. The downside is I lose a lot of detail.


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> Surprisingly, the HE-500 had worse sibilance than the HD700 to me. I would put the HE-500 at a 10/10 for pain, it was bad enough that I had to take them off and couldn't stand it. In comparison, the HD700 has tolerable sibilance, but still bad. Probably a 5/10 for pain. The HD650 would be a 1/10 on the strongest sibilance inducing tracks that I have.
> 
> Pretty sure I'm overly sensitive to it. This could be in part that I got into audio really late in my life. Started taking this all seriously only just a year ago. Before that listening to music with headphones was just something to boost my mood while doing work, and with headphones that were not detailed enough to make me notice any issues (M50).
> 
> I find the HD700's to be very enjoyable when EQ'd down really hard in the trouble areas. The downside is I lose a lot of detail.


 

 Interesting - have you auditioned the LCD's?  They may be a better match for you. 
  
 I had a pair of HE-500's and they sounded great - not as comfortable or nearly as big in sound stage as the HD800's but lot's of fun.  I bought them like new off Audiogon and they had the Moon Blue Dragon cable.  I never tried them with the stock one.  But each persons ears and tastes are different - so YMMV as the old saying goes.
  
 Good luck


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

What's up guys
  
 My Lyr 1 just came in today. I was wondering, since it's recommended (compulsory even?) to turn off this amp when it's not in use, is there a maximum amount of time of use recommended before turning it off? i.e. should we not use the Lyr for listening session that are over 5 hours or something along those lines


----------



## Tuco1965

The main reason to turn it off would be that tubes have a lifespan.  You would just be shortening that span by running all the time.  Other factors are heat and energy consumption.  I fire mine up a while before using and shut it down overnight.  Long sessions are no problem.  Enjoy it.


----------



## TeddyShot

Just recieved my new NOS 1969 Amperex Orange Globes an hour ago. And I have to say they make a huge difference over my Lyr 2's stock tubes. The first thing I noticed was that the soundstage was expanded greatly, everything sounded much more natural. Besides that they actually sound better, in my opinion, on High Gain. The stock tubes on my Lyr 2 couldn't handle high gain as it would kill off the bass and increase brightness, but it did make everything sound more aggressive, but unnatural. With the Orange Globes on High Gain the Attack of the bass is much better and more agressive, but instead of receeding in quantity it actually increases, which I love. Besides that everything stays natural sounding and the soundstage is still fantastic. Listening to heavy metal on these is awesome! I can't wait to hear how the sound after they've burned in a bit! biggrin.gif

Edit: When it comes to the Amperex 1969 Orange Globes and Sennheiser HD 650s. Do you guys prefer Low Gain or High Gain?


----------



## sfo1972

teddyshot said:


> Just recieved my new NOS 1969 Amperex Orange Globes an hour ago. And I have to say they make a huge difference over my Lyr 2's stock tubes. The first thing I noticed was that the soundstage was expanded greatly, everything sounded much more natural. Besides that they actually sound better, in my opinion, on High Gain. The stock tubes on my Lyr 2 couldn't handle high gain as it would kill off the bass and increase brightness, but it did make everything sound more aggressive, but unnatural. With the Orange Globes on High Gain the Attack of the bass is much better and more agressive, but instead of receeding in quantity it actually increases, which I love. Besides that everything stays natural sounding and the soundstage is still fantastic. Listening to heavy metal on these is awesome! I can't wait to hear how the sound after they've burned in a bit! biggrin.gif
> 
> Edit: When it comes to the Amperex 1969 Orange Globes and Sennheiser HD 650s. Do you guys prefer Low Gain or High Gain?


 

 Great to hear buddy. May I ask where you got your glass from? Was it eBay or through Head-Fi?


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> bobfiggins said:
> 
> 
> > So after trying the '72 Voshkod Rockets (75/75) in the Valhalla 2, it didn't tame the HD700's hot as the sun treble. So I returned it.
> ...


 

  
 I don't think that I ever asked you this question @rb2013, but what are your favorite HPs?


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> I don't think that I ever asked you this question @rb2013, but what are your favorite HPs?


 

 HD800's with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cables for sure!  W/O the Moon cable, I would have sold the HD800's and probably moved to a Stax set-up.  I have borrowed my friends LCD 2 rev2's and had a pair of the HE-500's.  I really liked both of them.  Sold the HE-500 mainly for comfort reasons.  I love the neutrality of the HD800/Moon combination.  The HD800 finished at #6 in the Battle of the Flagships thread.  With the Moon cables - I think higher.  Maybe even #3 or #4 - they improve the sound that much. 
  
 But at some point I will add an Ortho to the collection.  Maybe the HE1000's or the LCD3's.  The best orthos still have more bass for hard rock, although the Moon extended the bass on the HD800s.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> HD800's with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cables for sure!  W/O the Moon cable, I would have sold the HD800's and probably moved to a Stax set-up.  I have borrowed my friends LCD 2 rev2's and had a pair of the HE-500's.  I really liked both of them.  Sold the HE-500 mainly for comfort reasons.  I love the neutrality of the HD800/Moon combination.  The HD800 finished at #6 in the Battle of the Flagships thread.  With the Moon cables - I think higher.  Maybe even #3 or #4 - they improve the sound that much.
> 
> But at some point I will add an Ortho to the collection.  Maybe the HE1000's or the LCD3's.  The best orthos still have more bass for hard rock, although the Moon extended the bass on the HD800s.



Thanks for your impressions on the HD800 and the Black Dragon V2. I will have such a combination sometime soon. Take care.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that I ever asked you this question @rb2013, but what are your favorite HPs?
> ...


 

 I highly recommend the LCD3s after spending several months with them. While their cable is plain looking, it actually is very good and an upgrade will not produce a noticeable difference, I had promised to update you on this a while back after building my custom cable from OCC Silver Plated with good connectors. I have not seen any noticeable difference between the stock cable and the upgraded cable, making it a really good deal because you get all you need straight out of the box.
  
 The stock cable is AWG20 and is terminated very well: mini-xlr and the xlr for the AMP side. I highly recommend these headphones. I have seen a lot of traffic on the LCD 3f, but I have not spent time investigating that option.
  
 And on top of everything else, they look so freakin awesome


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> I highly recommend the LCD3s after spending several months with them. While their cable is plain looking, it actually is very good and an upgrade will not produce a noticeable difference, I had promised to update you on this a while back after building my custom cable from OCC Silver Plated with good connectors. I have not seen any noticeable difference between the stock cable and the upgraded cable, making it a really good deal because you get all you need straight out of the box.
> 
> The stock cable is AWG20 and is terminated very well: mini-xlr and the xlr for the AMP side. I highly recommend these headphones. I have seen a lot of traffic on the LCD 3f, but I have not spent time investigating that option.
> 
> And on top of everything else, they look so freakin awesome



Thanks for the heads up, I have been tempted to get the LCD-3 or the LCD-X, and it's good to know the stock cable works so well. And I agree Audeze LCD headphones look so boss, so bad to the bone. Damon this hobby and forever keeping my wallet as thin as a boardwalk fashion model.


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I highly recommend the LCD3s after spending several months with them. While their cable is plain looking, it actually is very good and an upgrade will not produce a noticeable difference, I had promised to update you on this a while back after building my custom cable from OCC Silver Plated with good connectors. I have not seen any noticeable difference between the stock cable and the upgraded cable, making it a really good deal because you get all you need straight out of the box.
> ...


 

 Lol...I know buddy. Every now and then you tell yourself, this is it! I am done with spending money and I have reached nirvana in my setup...and a new thing comes up and you say, wait....wouldn't it be cool if I had that thing.....


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Thanks for the heads up, I have been tempted to get the LCD-3 or the LCD-X, and it's good to know the stock cable works so well. And I agree Audeze LCD headphones look so boss, so bad to the bone. Damon this hobby and forever keeping my wallet as thin as a boardwalk fashion model.


 

 Check Audiogon - there are a couple of LCD-X's for sale around $1200-$1300. This one is tempting:
 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/over-ear-audeze-lcd-x-headphones-2015-03-03-headphones-64138-raytown-mo


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I was sent a Lyr by Amazon by mistake-I ordered a Mjolnir I'll send it back for a refund.
 Since I have it I am giving it a serious listen. For those who have had it AND the Lyr 2 does the Lyr 2 sound less distorted? I can hear some distortion as compared to my SS amp-but perhaps a  larger sense of space/soundstage. My SS sounds quite "musical." I just want to try alternatives to gain more soundstage. I wanted Mjolnir because it has balanced in- and the rest of my audio chain is balanced and I am assuming  the transformer I use to connect my balanced to unbalanced amps is reducing the quality of sound. It might not-but without trying the Mjolnir I can't say!
  
 The larger soundstage  has me wondering if I want a Lyr 2-but it would have to sound cleaner than the Lyr. Perhaps the soundstage on the Mjolnir is as good or better than the Lyr?
  
 My A/B comparisons are complicated by the need to move my HP between the two amps.  I can say the SS is cleaner-and I think Lyr has more ambience. Plenty of power either way.


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> I was sent a Lyr by Amazon by mistake-I ordered a Mjolnir I'll send it back for a refund.
> Since I have it I am giving it a serious listen. For those who have had it AND the Lyr 2 does the Lyr 2 sound less distorted? I can hear some distortion as compared to my SS amp-but perhaps a  larger sense of space/soundstage. My SS sounds quite "musical." I just want to try alternatives to gain more soundstage. I wanted Mjolnir because it has balanced in- and the rest of my audio chain is balanced and I am assuming  the transformer I use to connect my balanced to unbalanced amps is reducing the quality of sound. It might not-but without trying the Mjolnir I can't say!
> 
> The larger soundstage  has me wondering if I want a Lyr 2-but it would have to sound cleaner than the Lyr. Perhaps the soundstage on the Mjolnir is as good or better than the Lyr?
> ...



You make some good points. I have a lyr2 and enjoy that lush, tube sound. However I was shocked at how great my Ragnarok ( the big brother of Mjolnir) in balanced mode, sounded. I was so impressed by the SS sound, I pulled the trigger, and got the Asgard2 . The A2 is a very nice, underrated SS amp, which I can leave on, when dealing with stuff, and not worry about unnecessary tube burn. But the lyr2, with the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, does blow away the A2, especiallyin SOUNDSTAGE and the holographic quality of the sound. And, with the right tubes, the bass and everything else can be magical. If you decide to get a lyr2, roll your tubes and get some NOS vokshods from Bob @rb2013. These tubes and others sound better than the stock tubes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> You make some good points. I have a lyr2 and enjoy that lush, tube sound. However I was shocked at how great my Ragnarok ( the big brother of Mjolnir) in balanced mode, sounded. I was so impressed by the SS sound, I pulled the trigger, and got the Asgard2 . The A2 is a very nice, underrated SS amp, which I can leave on, when dealing with stuff, and not worry about unnecessary tube burn. But the lyr2, with the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, does blow away the A2, especiallyin SOUNDSTAGE and the holographic quality of the sound. And, with the right tubes, the bass and everything else can be magical. If you decide to get a lyr2, roll your tubes and get some NOS vokshods from Bob @rb2013. These tubes and others sound better than the stock tubes.


 
 Hi Reddog
 Thanks! You got the Asgard2 even though you have Ragnarok? Does the Lyr2 blow away the Ragnarok?


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> Hi Reddog
> Thanks! You got the Asgard2 even though you have Ragnarok? Does the Lyr2 blow away the Ragnarok?



No I love my Ragnarok, in balanced mode, it drives my Alpha Prime's like nothing else. My first Schiit Audio amp was the lyr2. I love the lyr2, but with my mom's Alzheimer's getting worst, I ended up leaving it, on unnecessarily and to avoid undo tube burn out, I got a A2. I use the lyr2, when my mother has crashed for the night. I use the rag, as my primary listening station, it's hooked up to my oppo BDP--103. I am planning on getting the Yggdrasil, later this year. The rag in balanced mode is great, but the lyr2's single-ended output, is better than the Ragnarok's single-ended out.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> No I love my Ragnarok, in balanced mode, it drives my Alpha Prime's like nothing else. My first Schiit Audio amp was the lyr2. I love the lyr2, but with my mom's Alzheimer's getting worst, I ended up leaving it, on unnecessarily and to avoid undo tube burn out, I got a A2. I use the lyr2, when my mother has crashed for the night. I use the rag, as my primary listening station, it's hooked up to my oppo BDP--103. I am planning on getting the Yggdrasil, later this year. The rag in balanced mode is great, but the lyr2's single-ended output, is better than the Ragnarok's single-ended out.


 
 I am sorry to hear about your Mother's situation!!
 I am currently using a BDP-105D.  So the Rag in balanced has a great sound stage-better than Lyr2-but Lyr 2 is better unbalanced? I am wondering if I should just go for the Ragnarok and be "done" rather than getting Mjolnir. Also I'll bet the 2 channel  speaker performance is likely superior to my Yamaha middle range A/V receiver.


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> I am sorry to hear about your Mother's situation!!
> I am currently using a BDP-105D.  So the Rag in balanced has a great sound stage-better than Lyr2-but Lyr 2 is better unbalanced? I am wondering if I should just go for the Ragnarok and be "done" rather than getting Mjolnir. Also I'll bet the 2 channel  speaker performance is likely superior to my Yamaha middle range A/V receiver.



If you can afford it, pull the trigger and get the mighty Ragnarok. I love the tight bass and the smooth textured mids and the ever fine treble, that all make the SOUNDSTAGE unbelievably holographic and three-dimensional. My Frank Zappa and Dave Bruebeck have never sounded better. Thus why I am so one sidedly, bent on obtaining the Yggdrasil, so I can humbled by the synergy of the sound.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> If you can afford it, pull the trigger and get the mighty Ragnarok. I love the tight bass and the smooth textured mids and the ever fine treble, that all make the SOUNDSTAGE unbelievably holographic and three-dimensional. My Frank Zappa and Dave Bruebeck have never sounded better. Thus why I am so one sidedly, bent on obtaining the Yggdrasil, so I can humbled by the synergy of the sound.


 
 I CAN pay for it. Should I? I AM a headphone fanatic who has nice speakers (Paradigm Ref Studio 40 V3) and have flirted with the idea of a better amp for stereo than my middle of the road Yamaha RX V657 from 2005.
 My speakers sounded better than the HE-560 via the Yamaha- but both the Lyr and the Denon 1992 DRA635R blow the Yam away for headphones.
  
 The Yam is 80 W at 8 ohm whereas the Rag is 60 Watt at 8 ohm- and 100 at 4 ohm (good current), The difference between 60 and 80 is possibly inaudible (3 db requires 2X power). Small room. Sounds like fantastic head phone AMP AND excellent speaker amp rolled into one pricey unit.
 Now I have to think a little. DAMN!! BTW: my balanced headphone cables are on the way already.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So after 50 hours burn in-I am appreciating the Lyr Amp! Might keep it. My question is-other than the selectable gain and "lower noise" are there any other benefits to the Lyr2 that would justify another $150? I can't HEAR noise with the Lyr and all my HP are hard to drive needing between 10 and 12 O'Clock (for quiet Classical)
  
   Lyr2= Lyr1- if they have the same tubes-or does Lyr2 with the same tubes, "reveal layers that no one heard before and project the soundstage to the next level-as if a veil was lifted?" Or is it just a matter of tube rolling and the Lyr2 sounds about the same otherwise-with hard to drive Planars. Like the HiFiman HE-560 (90 db at 1 mWatt) or the hybrid dynamic-Electrostatic AKG 340?
  
  So does anyone have a Lyr vs. Lyr2 comparison with HE-560?


----------



## TeddyShot

Does anything bad happen to your headphones if you accidently turn off the Lyr 2 while they are plugged in? I accidently turned off the amp while I still had my HD 650s plugged in. The amp was on High Gain but the volume was at zero. I had my headphones on still and I heard a loud pop when the amp shut off.


----------



## Gr8Desire

_Giving life to an old thread..._
  
*My Lyr 2 Experience -  March 2015*
  
 In my case, not the hardest phones to drive:  Beyer t1, Beyer t5p, Beyer DT900 and HIFIMAN HE-560
  
*PROS: *

Powerful enough
Many tube options 
Well built
  
*CONS: *

Chassis / ground loop hum that I couldn't eliminate (Note: no other amps in same configuration has any problem)
High frequency distortion that is higher than I like (my perception - no attempt to quantify)
  
 At the end of the 15 day trial, I got an RA and I returned the amp.
  
 Sadly the experience has been only lukewarm after dealing with Schiit about the return.  I reported the ground loop problem and my personal dislike for what I perceived as high end distortion. Schitt support told me the ground loop hum was my problem. They also said they tested the Lyr 2 I returned and declared there is nothing wrong with it. Now 10 days later, Schiit has still not authorized my refund.  I am disappointed that I am getting defensive assertions about my concerns when I all was trying to do was offer feedback.  
  
 I have since replaced the Lyr 2 with an Oppo HA-1.  No ground loop hum. No distortion and I am a very happy camper. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

gr8desire said:


> _Giving life to an old thread..._
> 
> *My Lyr 2 Experience -  March 2015*
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am really sorry to hear that you had so much trouble with the Lyr2 and Schiit. I own both the Oppo-HA1 and the Lyr2 and have enjoyed both immensely with no trouble from either component. I am slowly migrating to 2 different setups though, one with Oppo-HA1 and the other with the Lyr2 in different parts of the house.
  
 But for the longest period I had the Oppo connected to the Lyr2 and then downstream components/HPs. I have also experienced hum with the Lyr2, but it was temporary upon firing up the AMP. After a 30+ minute warm-up that issue disappears and its very black with a low noise floor.
  
 At any event, hope your issues get sorted.


----------



## jexby

Not surprised Oppo HA-1 was less sensitive to ground loop? since it's an all in one Dac/Amp unit.

With Lyr 1 and BiFrost Uber, Lyr 2 and Concero HD and Lyr 2 and iFi iDSD micro-
Have some hum If IF no music playing, high gain and volume knob on max.

Insert a JK Audio Pureformer with extra RCA cables between DAC and Lyr 2 =
Dead black silence on high gain and volume knob on max.

An easy $64 tweak to achieve dead black signal feeding the amp.


----------



## Larryp12

I've had my Lyr-2 for about three months and it may sound blasphemous to some but I think the stock tubes sound great! However, I'm going to purchase a pair of Gold Lions this week. Do I really need matched tubes? I listen to mostly Jazz with HD 650s. This will be my first tube purchase. Are their any pitfalls that I should be aware of. Thanks in advance.


----------



## money4me247

gr8desire said:


> _Giving life to an old thread..._
> 
> *My Lyr 2 Experience -  March 2015*
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had the same issue with my Lyr 2. It turned out to be the AC adapter of my laptop contributing to the ground loop noise. Swapped it out and everything works fine. I do think it is a bit weird that the Lyr 2 is so sensitive to that kind of thing as none of my other equipment has ever had an issue, but got it fixed, so no big deal for me at the end of the day. lucky that i was able to isolate and fix the problem.


----------



## money4me247

larryp12 said:


> I've had my Lyr-2 for about three months and it may sound blasphemous to some but I think the stock tubes sound great! However, I'm going to purchase a pair of Gold Lions this week. Do I really need matched tubes? I listen to mostly Jazz with HD 650s. This will be my first tube purchase. Are their any pitfalls that I should be aware of. Thanks in advance.


 
 i think the stock tubes sounds perfectly acceptable as well! hahah.


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> i think the stock tubes sounds perfectly acceptable as well! hahah.


 

 The Lyr/Lyr2 is really good with the stock tubes - but with a pair of top vintage tubes it's excellent.  So much so I sold my Woo WA6-SE for the Lyr after rolling in some '75 6n23p's.  The Woo with NOS tubes cost more then double.  Those '75 Voskhods can be had for $90/pr.


----------



## money4me247

rb2013 said:


> The Lyr/Lyr2 is really good with the stock tubes - but with a pair of top vintage tubes it's excellent.  So much so I sold my Woo WA6-SE for the Lyr after rolling in some '75 6n23p's.  The Woo with NOS tubes cost more then double.  Those '75 Voskhods can be had for $90/pr.




$90 a piece of $90 a pair? ive been trying to find a inexpensive tube to try


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> $90 a piece of $90 a pair? ive been trying to find a inexpensive tube to try


 

 $90 a matched and tested pr.  For the same price as Gold Lions - which are good - but to my ears these are way better and rarer (maybe go up in value later)
  
 This was the review I wrote last yr on the old Lyr tube rolling thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 I have a couple of extra pairs if you're interested PM me.


----------



## TeddyShot

teddyshot said:


> Does anything bad happen to your headphones if you accidently turn off the Lyr 2 while they are plugged in? I accidently turned off the amp while I still had my HD 650s plugged in. The amp was on High Gain but the volume was at zero. I had my headphones on still and I heard a loud pop when the amp shut off.




Anybody here know about this?


----------



## rawrster

I turn the amp off with my headphones plugged in at lowest volume all the time. It's nothing to worry about.


----------



## money4me247

teddyshot said:


> Anybody here know about this?


 
 the pop or click is due to the muting relay. it is normal operating procedure & nothing to worry about.
  
 any really old comments you read about worries of damaging drivers relate to the units that did not have that muting relay safety feature that is in all lyr 2s now.
  
 schiit does say you can plug/unplug your headphones prior to switching on/off (only to cover their ass in the event that the muting relay fails). not really a concern for me. i leave my headphones plugged in & haven't ran into any issues at all.


----------



## BobFiggins

rb2013 said:


> The Lyr/Lyr2 is really good with the stock tubes - but with a pair of top vintage tubes it's excellent.  So much so I sold my Woo WA6-SE for the Lyr after rolling in some '75 6n23p's.  The Woo with NOS tubes cost more then double.  Those '75 Voskhods can be had for $90/pr.


 
 That makes me kind of excited. I got the same pair from you right? Might have to throw down and try the Lyr 2. Hope I don't run into any return issues. They accepted my Valhalla 2 back with no issues.


----------



## Matro5

So, I decided to RA my Vali and try the Lyr2. I love the Vali - my first experience with tubes - and, to be honest, I don't expect much of a difference between the two amps. But, I plan to have this thing for awhile, and I think the Lyr2 offers a few things that make the upgrade worthwhile for me. 
  
 Preamp for desktop speakers - powered speakers for now, but I'd love to see Schiit make a power amp for speakers in the Lyr chassis

 More attractive - obviously this is personal preference, but if something's going to sit on my desk, I want it to be great looking, and the Lyr is much more attractive to me than the Vali
  
 Upgradeability - obviously the Lyr isn't upgradeable like the Bifrost, but the option to try different tubes seems like a fun way to play with the sound. I plan to run the stock tubes for awhile to get a handle on the sound and then start reading the Rollers' thread.


----------



## mangler

bobfiggins said:


> That makes me kind of excited. I got the same pair from you right? Might have to throw down and try the Lyr 2. Hope I don't run into any return issues. They accepted my Valhalla 2 back with no issues.




Just be aware you can only return 3 items per year: http://schiit.com/faq/warranty-returns


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I think I would rather use tubes that are of modern manufacture. I can see getting hooked on something from WWII then never being able to replace them.That would be sad!


----------



## rb2013

bobfiggins said:


> That makes me kind of excited. I got the same pair from you right? Might have to throw down and try the Lyr 2. Hope I don't run into any return issues. They accepted my Valhalla 2 back with no issues.


 

 Pretty sure those were the '72's nice tubes - the '75s are significantly better.  But for under $40 the '72 Voskhods are a real bargain.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> I think I would rather use tubes that are of modern manufacture. I can see getting hooked on something from WWII then never being able to replace them.That would be sad!


 

 Good point - but the difference in sound quality is something to hear.  The Lyr/Lyr2 amps seem to respond very well to upgraded tubes.  The vintage tubes are heads over the new production.  Over on the 8,000+ post old Lyr tube rolling thread and on the 5,000+ post new thread - the reason for this has been widely discussed.  The concenus is the quality of materials and skilled engineers that made these back in the 50's, 60's, 70's - just don't exist today.  During their heyday just the type of tubes like the 6922/E88CC/6n23p were made by the 10,000's.  Lot's of competition. 
  
 I've tried over 50 different tube types in my Lyr - including the all the new production ones.  I have to say the improvement in the sound of the Lyr with the best new production is no where near that of even lower cost vintage.
  
 The benefit of the vintage tubes is they tend to hold their value over time  - the best tubes have even appreciated over the last 10 yrs.  I was lucky to find these '70's gems of Russian tubes that are still very reasonably priced and sound pretty amazing.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Larryp12

Thanks for the feedback on the Voskhod 6n23ps. Those are next on my short list of tubes for the Lyr 2/HD 650 rig. I also want to try a pair of Orange Globes.


----------



## rb2013

larryp12 said:


> Thanks for the feedback on the Voskhod 6n23ps. Those are next on my short list of tubes for the Lyr 2/HD 650 rig. I also want to try a pair of Orange Globes.


 

 The Amperex OGs are excellent as well.  Other low cost vintage tubes that are really good - the Tesla's and the Siemens E88CC. These are all available under $100/pr.  Of course there are way more expensive tubes - and trust me your wallet would howl at some of them. LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But you don't have to go crazy to get really great sound from the Lyr/Lyr2.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## money4me247

rb2013 said:


> The Amperex OGs are excellent as well.  Other low cost vintage tubes that are really good - the Tesla's and the Siemens E88CC. These are all available under $100/pr.  Of course there are way more expensive tubes - and trust me your wallet would howl at some of them. LOL!
> 
> But you don't have to go crazy to get really great sound from the Lyr/Lyr2.
> 
> Happy Rolling!




i am curious where u get ur price quotes. it seems like the prices of the same tubes range quite variably based on the year they were made, the seller, their current popularity, the seasons, the seller's mood, the tides, and other cosmetic forces beyond my understanding.

any solid reputable tube place that doesnt overcharge u like crazy or reliable ebay sellers?


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> i am curious where u get ur price quotes. it seems like the prices of the same tubes range quite variably based on the year they were made, the seller, their current popularity, the seasons, the seller's mood, the tides, and other cosmetic forces beyond my understanding.
> 
> any solid reputable tube place that doesnt overcharge u like crazy or reliable ebay sellers?


 

 Well that's a question would take three pages to answer - I would suggest reading the new Lyr Rolling Thread - this has all been posted there numerous times.  Let just say my 1792 posts have mostly been there


----------



## Matro5

Lyr2 arrived. What a beautiful piece of hardware. The Vali _looks _like a toy next to it.... although ( as expected ) the little Vali more than holds it own against its big brother in the sound department. 
  
 That said, early impressions are very positive with the Lyr. Build quality is excellent, with no channel imbalance issues at all. Amp is completely silent with no music playing in Low gain, but there is some slight hum at insane levels with no music playing in High gain. I'd blow my ears up if I ever listened there, so I'm not worried about it, although I'll probably someone else's lead in this thread and buy the Schiit cables to see if that clears it up. 

 Quick question - is there anything to consider about which gain setting to use besides personal preference? I don't listen at ear-splitting levels so headroom isn't an issue at either level. 
  
 Currently using Tidal --> Dragonfly --> Lyr2 --> Grado PS500. 
  
 I'll try to post pics tomorrow.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> Lyr2 arrived. What a beautiful piece of hardware. The Vali _looks _like a toy next to it.... although ( as expected ) the little Vali more than holds it own against its big brother in the sound department.
> 
> That said, early impressions are very positive with the Lyr. Build quality is excellent, with no channel imbalance issues at all. Amp is completely silent with no music playing in Low gain, but there is some slight hum at insane levels with no music playing in High gain. I'd blow my ears up if I ever listened there, so I'm not worried about it, although I'll probably someone else's lead in this thread and buy the Schiit cables to see if that clears it up.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats!
 I got a Lyr by (Amazon) mistake-right Price-they just had the ID wrong. Got my RA-then I spent some time listening. Now, I am going to cancel RA and keep it!  Lovely sounding-I was using it to drive my Hifiman HE-560's and listing to Anna Caram (Brazilian singer) on Chesky Records. I felt like I was suspended in a cloud of instruments-with the singer in front of me.
 Now I want to try some other tubes! I am at 120 hours-so I assume it is "broken in."  I ordered what I thought was B-Stock Mjolnir. At $300 it WAS too good to be true.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So how many had the Lyr AND Lyr2 side by side with the same tubes-all broken in and with the same HP could hear clear improvements in distortion, imaging etc??
  
 I am at decision time. I have a Return Authorization for the B Stock Lyr I got by Amazon mistake. I wanted the Mjolnir (long story I'll skip). Anyway-I listened to the Lyr-since I had wanted to try the Lyr2. 
 I really LIKE it-and am seriously considering reversing the RA and keeping it. But not if there is a mass agreement that the Lyr2 is clearly better sounding-with Orthodynamics. The Lyr is a perfect match for the HiFiman HE-560 Magnetic Planar HP I have-and I don't plan to get Earbuds so the switchable gain is not something I need. I also  don't hear any hum/hiss unless I crank it ALL the way up with no signal., If I EVER tried listening to music at that level, I'd BLOW out my EARS and HP!  So although the Lyr2 is stated to be quieter-that is not a consideration
  
 I've looked everywhere for claims that the Lyr2 sounds clearly BETTER with Orthodynamic HP than the Lyr. So far-the only person is Jason Stoddard who "thinks the Lyr2" might sound better.
 I've no doubt the Ly2 is awesome-but if you had a Lyr for $300 would you send it back to get the Lyr2 for $449-if you had no noise issues and did not need switchable gain?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> So how many had the Lyr AND Lyr2 side by side with the same tubes-all broken in and with the same HP could hear clear improvements in distortion, imaging etc??
> 
> I am at decision time. I have a Return Authorization for the B Stock Lyr I got by Amazon mistake. I wanted the Mjolnir (long story I'll skip). Anyway-I listened to the Lyr-since I had wanted to try the Lyr2.
> I really LIKE it-and am seriously considering reversing the RA and keeping it. But not if there is a mass agreement that the Lyr2 is clearly better sounding-with Orthodynamics. The Lyr is a perfect match for the HiFiman HE-560 Magnetic Planar HP I have-and I don't plan to get Earbuds so the switchable gain is not something I need. I also  don't hear any hum/hiss unless I crank it ALL the way up with no signal., If I EVER tried listening to music at that level, I'd BLOW out my EARS and HP!  So although the Lyr2 is stated to be quieter-that is not a consideration
> ...


 

 I have a Lyr and borrowed a friends Lyr2 to do a comparison.  I could not hear a difference, other then the Lyr2 being a little quieter at ridiculous vol (no music).  This has to do with the PS change from AC heating to DC and some additional PS filtering.  If you are obsessed with noise at unlistenable full vol - get the Lyr2.  Other wise the Lyr is a fantastic bargain - it also has a wider range of tubes it can use (although the Lyr2 has plenty to choose from).  Now if you have very low impedance HPs (like the 702's) or IEMs you need the gain switch - so the Lyr2 is the right option.
  
 Otherwise the difference in price could be used for a nice set of better tubes - which would go a lot further in improving the sound.


----------



## jexby

rb2013 said:


> I have a Lyr and borrowed a friends Lyr2 to do a comparison.  I could not hear a difference, other then the Lyr2 being a little quieter at ridiculous vol (no music).  This has to do with the PS change from AC heating to DC and some additional PS filtering.  If you are obsessed with noise at unlistenable full vol - get the Lyr2.  Other wise the Lyr is a fantastic bargain - it also has a wider range of tubes it can use (although the Lyr2 has plenty to choose from).  Now if you have very low impedance HPs (like the 702's) or IEMs you need the gain switch - so the Lyr2 is the right option.
> 
> Otherwise the difference in price could be used for a nice set of better tubes - which would go a lot further in improving the sound.


 

 +1 to all that.
  
 only addition:  if anyone wants to completely remove that "small noise at full volume knob, with no music playing" - try putting a JK Audio Pureformer ($65) between your DAC and the Lyr 1or2.
 makes it dead quiet at full volume knob, with no loss in sonic quality.
  
 yes, the OCD in me requires the Pureformer.


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> +1 to all that.
> 
> only addition:  if anyone wants to completely remove that "small noise at full volume knob, with no music playing" - try putting a JK Audio Pureformer ($65) between your DAC and the Lyr 1or2.
> makes it dead quiet at full volume knob, with no loss in sonic quality.
> ...


 

 Could be a great 'cure' for those with ground loop hum issues as well.


----------



## Matro5

matro5 said:


> but there is some slight hum at insane levels with no music playing in High gain. I'd blow my ears up if I ever listened there, so I'm not worried about it, although I'll probably someone else's lead in this thread and buy the Schiit cables to see if that clears it up.
> 
> Currently using Tidal --> Dragonfly --> Lyr2 --> Grado PS500.


 
  
 A quick update. It turns out the Dragonfly was *not* in the chain during my listening last night. I'd forgotten that I had removed it and was listening straight from the headphone jack on my iMac. 
  
*With the Dragonfly installed, the hum is very much reduced and there is no cracking or static whatsoever at any volume*.
  
 The small amount of hum shows up at around 3pm on the volume dial in High Gain with my Grado PS500, which would be insanely loud with this amp and these efficient headphones.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> I have a Lyr and borrowed a friends Lyr2 to do a comparison.  I could not hear a difference, other then the Lyr2 being a little quieter at ridiculous vol (no music).  This has to do with the PS change from AC heating to DC and some additional PS filtering.  If you are obsessed with noise at unlistenable full vol - get the Lyr2.  Other wise the Lyr is a fantastic bargain - it also has a wider range of tubes it can use (although the Lyr2 has plenty to choose from).  Now if you have very low impedance HPs (like the 702's) or IEMs you need the gain switch - so the Lyr2 is the right option.
> 
> Otherwise the difference in price could be used for a nice set of better tubes - which would go a lot further in improving the sound.


 
 Thanks rb2013! I don't want  to obsess on 0.01 vs 0.1% THD. It is listening which is important-and as you say-the tubes will likely make more difference!
 There are some Edgy/rough sounds when the full choir, Organ, and Soprano's belt out all at once on my Michael Tilson Thomas recording of Mahler's 8th Symphony. I'm going to take the disc to some High End stores and see if it's the AMP or the Recording. If AMP-it's going back-otherwise I'll keep it and roll tubes!
  
  
 And I am comparing to my Yamaha A/V HP out-which is underpowered-but sounds clean.
  
 I am using a Sabre 9018 32 bit DAC-which is highly regarded.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks rb2013! I don't want  to obsess on 0.01 vs 0.1% THD. It is listening which is important-and as you say-the tubes will likely make more difference!
> There are some Edgy/rough sounds when the full choir, Organ, and Soprano's belt out all at once on my Michael Tilson Thomas recording of Mahler's 8th Symphony. I'm going to take the disc to some High End stores and see if it's the AMP or the Recording. If AMP-it's going back-otherwise I'll keep it and roll tubes!
> 
> 
> ...


 The Sabre 9018 is a highly resolving DAC chip, depending on implementation. The issue with the lower cost tubes, is they tend to congest on loud complex passages. They hit the wall and turn muddy, losing the clarity and focus they have on normal passages. The best tubes are like power houses of seemingly endless reserves. See my recent comments on the Lyr Tube Rolling thread comparing the Russian 6n23p '75 Reflektor silver shield single getter post (my 'Holy Grail' tube, I refer to as the HG's) vs the legendary '60s Telefunken E188CC.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

rb2013 said:


> The Sabre 9018 is a highly resolving DAC chip, depending on implementation. The issue with the lower cost tubes, is they tend to congest on loud complex passages. They hit the wall and turn muddy, losing the clarity and focus they have on normal passages. The best tubes are like power houses of seemingly endless reserves. See my recent comments on the Lyr Tube Rolling thread comparing the Russian 6n23p '75 Reflektor silver shield single getter post (my 'Holy Grail' tube, I refer to as the HG's) vs the legendary '60s Telefunken E188CC.




Wow, I really agree with this post. For fun, I bought some relatively cheap GE-Smokies, which are just lovely on my HD-650s and with less complex music, but they really do sound muddy when listening to some Beethoven or Bach symphonies.


----------



## rb2013

liu junyuan said:


> Wow, I really agree with this post. For fun, I bought some relatively cheap GE-Smokies, which are just lovely on my HD-650s and with less complex music, but they really do sound muddy when listening to some Beethoven or Bach symphonies.


 

 Thanks Liu!  I'm about to start a Grand Lyr Tube Shootout - and have so far assembled 20 of the best 6922/6n23p tubes ever made.  The difference on these complex passages is one of my major litmus tests - these top end tubes really shine.  It's quite thrilling to hear their amazing dynamic capabilities.
  
 The other thing I noticed on those loud complex passages - as the tubes hit the wall and turn muddy the sound stage turns flattish.  Think staggered cardboard cutouts vs true 3 dimensional holographic point sources project in the sound field.
  
 Besides all the other qualities of the better tubes - like rich natural tone, smooth musicality, deep detail retrieval, bass extension and definition.  The Lyr/Lyr2 responses especially well to better tubes.
  
 I think many folks give up on the Lyr/Lyr2 without hearing nearly what it's capable of...a quick 2 day demo with stock tubes doesn't give it justice.  The tubes and caps need 100-200 hrs to sound best.  Often they are comparing it to the fully burnt in amp they are currently using.  Better to buy a used one, that is at least burnt in, and maybe comes with some better tubes.  Then sell it for little difference in price after a fair evaluation.


----------



## ghostchili

My Lyr 2 and Uber BiFrost are only 2 months old and I think I will be selling them. I didn't expect to have an upgraded Amp/Dac so soon. I just got done burning all of the tubes in so I will give them some time and decide. Send me PM if anyone has interest. I can give you details on the tubes. Everything might end up in the classifieds soon. I will not sell tubes separately.


----------



## money4me247

ghostchili said:


> My Lyr 2 and Uber BiFrost are only 2 months old and I think I will be selling them. I didn't expect to have an upgraded Amp/Dac so soon. I just got done burning all of the tubes in so I will give them some time and decide. Send me PM if anyone has interest. I can give you details on the tubes. Everything might end up in the classifieds soon. I will not sell tubes separately.




what tubes do u have and are you sure u dont want to sell em separately? i may be interested


----------



## crixnet

ghostchili said:


> My Lyr 2 and Uber BiFrost are only 2 months old and I think I will be selling them. I didn't expect to have an upgraded Amp/Dac so soon. I just got done burning all of the tubes in so I will give them some time and decide. Send me PM if anyone has interest. I can give you details on the tubes. Everything might end up in the classifieds soon. I will not sell tubes separately.


 

 So, why are your selling? I can't tell from your statement, _"I didn't expect to have an upgraded Amp/Dac so soon."_


----------



## rawrster

I'll probably do the same eventually. I'm probably purchasing a new amp soon but SS, balanced and much more expensive. I'm not sure yet since I haven't had the amp for that long.


----------



## ghostchili

crixnet said:


> So, why are your selling? I can't tell from your statement, _"I didn't expect to have an upgraded Amp/Dac so soon."_




I just got the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and Violoectric V-281 amp. Unfortunately I haven't touched my Schiit since.


----------



## crixnet

Yeah, RAAS (Rapid Audio Acquisition Syndrome) can be an insidious affliction. 
  
 However, the Bitfrost Uber/Lyr 2 sale will likely be a gift from heaven for some lucky folk. This Schiit stack is a seriously badass performance package, especially with some great vintage tubes. Night and day difference from stock tubes.
  
 As Bob has mentioned before, some sellers of this stack opt to part with their gear before fully burning in the components and good tubes. Again, the circle of audio life, and great deals for others to jump on.
  
 Happy sales!


----------



## reddog

crixnet said:


> Yeah, RAAS (Rapid Audio Acquisition Syndrome) can be an insidious affliction.
> 
> However, the Bitfrost Uber/Lyr 2 sale will likely be a gift from heaven for some lucky folk. This Schiit stack is a seriously badass performance package, especially with some great vintage tubes. Night and day difference from stock tubes.
> 
> ...



+1 What he said. I would love to hear a vioelectric amp. Hope it puts a smile on your face.


----------



## ghostchili

money4me247 said:


> what tubes do u have and are you sure u dont want to sell em separately? i may be interested


 
 Both are Voskhod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory matched pairs bought from rb2013.. 
  
 1975 Gray Shields
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595 Bob's #1 tube from last year.
 
And '74 Reflektor SWGP Silvers which I think Bob likes even better. Bob?
  
Selling everything together to one lucky person!


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> I just got the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and Violoectric V-281 amp. Unfortunately I haven't touched my Schiit since.


 

 $2300 - Hot dang, I can see why.  Sweet unit!
  
 http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v281
  
 This is one I'm saving for - New HiFiMan HE-1000.
  
 Like the Lyr Class A Mosfet outputs - 6922 tube pre-amp section.  Will run speakers as well up to 50 watts Class 'A'.  Uses the same tubes as the Lyr/Lyr2
 Question is price.
 http://stereoexchange.com/latest-news/hifiman-prototype-products-on-display-now/
  


> *HiFiMAN EF1000*​ *Hybrid Headphone Amplifier​ *Ultimate Design Utilizing 6922 Vacuum Tubes and Transistors​


 
  

  
 PS The PS Audio DAC Directstream is like $6,000 - not fair to compare to the $300 Bifrost.  Have you tried running the DAC Directstream into the Lyr with the HGs?
  
 http://www.psaudio.com/directstream-dac/


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> Both are Voskhod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory matched pairs bought from rb2013..
> 
> 1975 Gray Shields
> 
> ...


 

 Yes the '74 Reflektors Silver SWGP are my #2 tube after the '75 Reflektor silver shield SWGP (HG's).  The excellent '75 Voskhod grays are still my #3 6n23p.


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> $2300 - Hot dang, I can see why.  Sweet unit!
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v281
> 
> ...


 

 Yes Bob, It sounds amazing. I'm really only selling the Lyr 2 because I bought a few balance cables. I am selling this stuff and a few headphones to get the HE-1000. And the Bifrost is closer to $500 with the Uber and USB


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> Yes Bob, It sounds amazing. I'm really only selling the Lyr 2 because I bought a few balance cables. I am selling this stuff and a few headphones to get the HE-1000. And the Bifrost is closer to $500 with the Uber and USB


 

 Yes true on the Bifrost with uber/USB. HE1000's!!  Nice!  Did you win the lottery?


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> Yes true on the Bifrost with uber/USB. HE1000's!!  Nice!  Did you win the lottery?


 

 No I have OCD.


----------



## money4me247

ghostchili said:


> No I have OCD.




if u change ur mind abt selling tubes separately, pm me


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> No I have OCD.


 






  I call it Audio-nervousa!  And I have an extreme case as well!
  
 http://www.audionervosa.com


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> :etysmile:   I call it Audio-nervousa!  And I have an extreme case as well!
> 
> http://www.audionervosa.com




Lol, I have my name on a list for the HE-1000s. I should be good right? No need for anything else.... Well except for a separate power supply and filters for my Mac, and the best cables for the HE-1000, Some Toxic Cable Silver Widow 22 gauge perhaps. But after that I should be good.....


----------



## warrior1975

You can't believe that? This never ends...


----------



## ghostchili

warrior1975 said:


> You can't believe that? This never ends...




I wish I could believe it every time I upgrade I think "Man I can't sound better than this" but it keeps getting better.


----------



## warrior1975

At least you are moving up, improving. Better than I have done!! Lots of side grades!!!


----------



## ghostchili

warrior1975 said:


> At least you are moving up, improving. Better than I have done!! Lots of side grades!!!




I did the side grade route for a while, but I you buy 3 $500 headphones, why not just get 1 $1500 headphone instead. For me it was the Audeze LCD-X. That's what I did and followed suit with everything else. The results are worth it!


----------



## warrior1975

Similar to what I did.... Bought TOTL IEMS, AK240, then side graded from there foolishly. My first headphones, fostex th900... So I'm starting out right with that.


----------



## money4me247

ghostchili said:


> I did the side grade route for a while, but I you buy 3 $500 headphones, why not just get 1 $1500 headphone instead. For me it was the Audeze LCD-X. That's what I did and followed suit with everything else. The results are worth it!


 
 +1! always better to invest your budget into one really nice pair of headphones over a bunch of less expensive headphones (assuming that the headphone you picked have good performance for their value). you only have one head & one pair of ears afterall!!!!


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> Lol, I have my name on a list for the HE-1000s. I should be good right? No need for anything else.... Well except for a separate power supply and filters for my Mac, and the best cables for the HE-1000, Some Toxic Cable Silver Widow 22 gauge perhaps. But after that I should be good.....


 

 Ha ha! Maybe some 'mods' for the PS Audio - or a different USB interface and USB cable or....


----------



## ghostchili

money4me247 said:


> +1! always better to invest your budget into one really nice pair of headphones over a bunch of less expensive headphones (assuming that the headphone you picked have good performance for their value). you only have one head & one pair of ears afterall!!!!


 
 That's what I'm telling myself when I order the HiFiMan HE-1000.
  


rb2013 said:


> Ha ha! Maybe some 'mods' for the PS Audio - or a different USB interface and USB cable or....


 
 It never ends. Always something new, better, and more $.


----------



## reddog

It's time to create the church of the audiophile, and all audio buys would be tax free. I will love to fork over 3 grand for an HE1000, but will hate to pay the tax on it.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> It's time to create the church of the audiophile, and all audio buys would be tax free. I will love to fork over 3 grand for an HE1000, but will hate to pay the tax on it.


 
 Sign me up!


----------



## PeanutsJr

Hey guys, how does it compare to WA6?


----------



## warrior1975

I plan on buying a lyr2 in the near future, hopefully I can find out since I have an wa6 on the way. Interested in comparisons for sure.


----------



## PeanutsJr

warrior1975 said:


> I plan on buying a lyr2 in the near future, hopefully I can find out since I have an wa6 on the way. Interested in comparisons for sure.


 
  
 I can't decide between the two. I read Lyr 2 had background noise problem and the WA6 doesn't.


----------



## jexby

peanutsjr said:


> I can't decide between the two. I read Lyr 2 had background noise problem and the WA6 doesn't.




The Lyr 2 has no significant back ground noise unless your tubes are bad, or using sensitive IEMs.
Flip the Gain switch to low also works well.


----------



## warrior1975

peanutsjr said:


> I can't decide between the two. I read Lyr 2 had background noise problem and the WA6 doesn't.




I read that about original lyr, but only for sensitive phones or IEMS. Lyr 2 seems to be well received.


----------



## money4me247

jexby said:


> peanutsjr said:
> 
> 
> > I can't decide between the two. I read Lyr 2 had background noise problem and the WA6 doesn't.
> ...


 
 This is true. though the Lyr 2 is quite sensitive and you can also experience background noise problems with ground loops. usually an easy to fix though.


----------



## rb2013

peanutsjr said:


> I can't decide between the two. I read Lyr 2 had background noise problem and the WA6 doesn't.


 

 I had a WA6-SE spent a yr tube rolling it - fully NOS tubed (including the 5U4G Rec - Mullard black base '50s).  Sounded great - if a bit polite.  After reading this 6moons review on the Lyr decided to try it - way more exciting!  If a bit rough around the edges with stock tube.  That began a yr long tube rolling expedition - hit on the Russian 6n23p's the '75s.  That was it - the Woo was sold shortly after.
  
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
 Best quote (and this is from a reviewer with a stable of totl HPs, and who has heard most of the best HP amps)
  


> Clearly the core target audience are headfiers. Those who also run speaker systems are well advised to give the Lyr a go. But I'd not recommend that preamp buyers pursue the Lyr as primary target. Its illustrious headphone performance only diminishes in that application. To equal it as a preamp takes longer green. *And to jump ahead, to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5.*


 
  
 The WA6-SE is a pretty big step-up over the WA6.
 http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
  
 The Lyr needs good tubes and a excellent source to show what it's capable of.  The Lyr 2 is quieter do to some changes in the tube heater and PS.
  
 Don't miss the Woo a bit.


----------



## PeanutsJr

rb2013 said:


> I had a WA6-SE spent a yr tube rolling it - fully NOS tubed (including the 5U4G Rec - Mullard black base '50s).  Sounded great - if a bit polite.  After reading this 6moons review on the Lyr decided to try it - way more exciting!  If a bit rough around the edges with stock tube.  That began a yr long tube rolling expedition - hit on the Russian 6n23p's the '75s.  That was it - the Woo was sold shortly after.
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
> Best quote (and this is from a reviewer with a stable of totl HPs, and who has heard most of the best HP amps)
> ...


 
 Thanks for your input.
  
 Did the Woo run cooler than Lyr 2. I live in a warm area.


----------



## rb2013

peanutsjr said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Did the Woo run cooler than Lyr 2. I live in a warm area.


 

 Well not really as you have two driver/power tubes and the big rectifier.  Both a bit on the warm side.  The Lyr is theoretically more reliable as you have SS output devices.  Pre-amp signal tubes like in the Lyr tend to last longer then driver/power tubes


----------



## Matro5

rb2013 said:


> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
> Best quote (and this is from a reviewer with a stable of totl HPs, and who has heard most of the best HP amps)
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd read that review, as well, and I'm still curious about the Lyr2 as a preamp. Even though I just picked up the Lyr2, I haven't yet hooked it up as a  preamp. To those who have, I've got 2 questions:
  
 1. Do your findings match the reviewer's? In other words, is there any reason Lyr2 wouldn't make a nice preamp? 
  
 2. Would tube rolling improve the sound as a preamp the same way it does as for the headphone amp? 
  
 Really loving my Lyr2, by the way, but I'm going to _try _and avoid tube rolling as long as possible. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I am curious- how many have compared the Lyr or Lyr2 to the Hybrid HiFiman Head Phone Amps? I think this Schiit is sounding really fine-but I don't have any of the competitors at home to test. I've tested in various stores-but not with the Lyr with me.
  
  My feeling is this is competitive with some higher end-or certainly much pricier amps. Am I right? It certainly has made my HiFimam HE-560 stand up and dance!


----------



## rawrster

Has anyone else tried the he560 and the lyr amp? I keep getting that nagging feeling that the he560 has the potential for better than what I'm getting out of it. I have some decent tubes and my dac isn't terrible so that probably isn't it.


----------



## ghostchili

rawrster said:


> Has anyone else tried the he560 and the lyr amp? I keep getting that nagging feeling that the he560 has the potential for better than what I'm getting out of it. I have some decent tubes and my dac isn't terrible so that probably isn't it.




I can try my Lyr2 / BiFrost combo tonight with my HE-560s if you want. I have my 74' tubes in currently.


----------



## rawrster

If you don't mind can you compare that and the v281. I've been starng at that amp and really close to buying it as of late. It could be the lyr isn't the best match or I'm just spoiled..

I think I have 74 reflektors in my lyr right now.


----------



## ghostchili

rawrster said:


> If you don't mind can you compare that and the v281. I've been starng at that amp and really close to buying it as of late. It could be the lyr isn't the best match or I'm just spoiled..
> 
> I think I have 74 reflektors in my lyr right now.




Sure, want me to use the BiFrost or Directstream DAC?
I'm interested in seeing how the V-281 stacks up to the new HiFiman amp that's coming out soon.


----------



## rawrster

I'm guessing bifrost since I have never heard the other dac. 

I've gotten a few reports about the v281 being one of the best solid state amps they have ever heard but I'm still on the fence on it. I'm not sure about the Hifiman amp yet. I'll have to hear that when it comes out in a nyc meet to get an idea of it.


----------



## money4me247

rawrster said:


> Has anyone else tried the he560 and the lyr amp? I keep getting that nagging feeling that the he560 has the potential for better than what I'm getting out of it. I have some decent tubes and my dac isn't terrible so that probably isn't it.


 
  
 yup, that's my combo (lyr 2 though). very solid combo even just with stock tubes. i like the extra warmth tube amps provide for the he-560's extremely neutral sound sig. started out in the hobby as a little bit of a basshead hahah. would recommend the pairing.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rawrster said:


> Has anyone else tried the he560 and the lyr amp? I keep getting that nagging feeling that the he560 has the potential for better than what I'm getting out of it. I have some decent tubes and my dac isn't terrible so that probably isn't it.


 
 I do. I have the stock tubes right now. I bought some other tubes-but they have not yet arrived. Are you wondering if there are better amps or am I misunderstanding the question? Everyone including Schiiit say that it sounds different with different tubes- look on the tube rolling thread.
  
 I listened to some high end amps yesterday-and my impression was that the Lyr is good-but that they had somewhat smoother treble. The caveat being that I did not have the Lyr present and it was not a true A/B test as it required moving the SACD player from Amp to Amp.


----------



## ghostchili

rawrster said:


> I'm guessing bifrost since I have never heard the other dac.
> 
> I've gotten a few reports about the v281 being one of the best solid state amps they have ever heard but I'm still on the fence on it. I'm not sure about the Hifiman amp yet. I'll have to hear that when it comes out in a nyc meet to get an idea of it.


 


 Warming everything up. I will let you know what I think after I get the kids down.


----------



## money4me247

exacoustatowner said:


> I do. I have the stock tubes right now. I bought some other tubes-but they have not yet arrived. Are you wondering if there are better amps or am I misunderstanding the question? Everyone including Schiiit say that it sounds different with different tubes- look on the tube rolling thread.
> 
> I listened to some high end amps yesterday-and my impression was that the Lyr is good-but that they had somewhat smoother treble. The caveat being that I did not have the Lyr present and it was not a true A/B test as it required moving the SACD player from Amp to Amp.




bifrost is a bit of a brighter dac, so balances out well. yes the sound will change w tubes, but the popular tubes are all quite pricey nowadays. $100 at least for one generally & u need a matched set. w tubes i get the impression tat u kinda do u comparing & searchin to find what suits you. seems like a very expensive endeavor


----------



## Exacoustatowner

ghostchili said:


> Warming everything up. I will let you know what I think after I get the kids down.


 
 I'll be interested. I ordered the Ragnarok yesterday. I want a high end HP amp-and a higher end speaker amp than my 2005 Yamaha mid level A/V or my 1992 Denon Mid level A/V. I envision moving the Lyr to the bedroom. Violectric V281! I wish I could compare to the Ragnarok.


----------



## ghostchili

ghostchili said:


> Warming everything up. I will let you know what I think after I get the kids down.




Tomorrow I am going to go over my set-up to see if I'm having volume issues. I was pushing the volume last night for comparison sake, listening at very high levels. I will trouble shoot and tube roll to see why I ran out of volume on the Lyr 2.


----------



## rawrster

exacoustatowner said:


> I do. I have the stock tubes right now. I bought some other tubes-but they have not yet arrived. Are you wondering if there are better amps or am I misunderstanding the question? Everyone including Schiiit say that it sounds different with different tubes- look on the tube rolling thread.
> 
> I listened to some high end amps yesterday-and my impression was that the Lyr is good-but that they had somewhat smoother treble. The caveat being that I did not have the Lyr present and it was not a true A/B test as it required moving the SACD player from Amp to Amp.


 
  
 It's more that I am not satisfied at the level of performance I am getting with the setup I have now and I don't believe that I have maximized the performance of the HE-560 with what I am hearing from the Lyr 2 so far. I do have some decent tubes (74 Reflektor, Orange globes, 78 voshkod silver shields) and I don't want to go deeper into purchasing tubes. 


ghostchili said:


> Well I am sitting down with the Binaural Album Explorations in Space and Time Lossless at 176.4k 24. The song War has deep drums, cymbals, bells, snares, huge sounds stage and the V-281 rocks it with the HE-560s if I put the gain to +12 and go past 3 o'clock it hurts me ears. On the Lyr 2 I have the gain on high and the volume is all the way up but it isn't loud enough. I'm missing the impact the V-281 has. Some albums it can get loud enough with the Lyr 2, most can't. I listen to music at a moderately high volume. The V-281 had a lot more muscle. The 74's for the Lyr I are some of the best and the warmth is perfect for the 560's, just needs more power. The overall sound of the V-281 is really good in all areas, very full sounding. I started the comparison using the Bifrost but swiched to the DirectStream DAC because I can switch to each amp instantly and the DAC is invisible so I can truly hear the minute differences in each amp. The Lyr 2 sounds harsher and a tad tinny. Remember these are to completely different price brackets. For the money the Lyr2 is tough to beat if you get the right tubes. The V-281 is also tough to beat for the money, it's just a lot more money.
> 
> Sorry for the rambling I am writing real time, I'm also in a Binaural kick right now as the soundstage is really cool. It gets friends that come over smile. My neighbor got sick to his stomach with the LCD-Xs on with a Binaural Chesky song on. He kept opening his eyes looking around to see what the hell was going on. Lol
> 
> If you want anymore specific comparisons let me know.


 
  
 Thank you for doing this. I know the V281 is at least a 2k investment depending on volume control options. I don't usually consider price bracket although in this case it is obvious. The reason being I have heard amps in a larger price bracket that should be lower and vice versa however it's hard not to compare $500 vs 2-3k. The volume is definitely an issue on all the tubes I have. I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made.


----------



## jexby

ghostchili said:


> On the Lyr 2 I have the gain on high and the volume is all the way up but it isn't loud enough. I'm missing the impact the V-281 has. Some albums it can get loud enough with the Lyr 2, most can't. I listen to music at a moderately high volume. The V-281 had a lot more muscle. The 74's for the Lyr I are some of the best and the warmth is perfect for the 560's, just needs more power.


 
  
 this is just unreal- is your source material mastered ultra quiet?   some driver not at max volume at the OS level?  DAC level not putting out 2V?
  
  
 mac Audirvana+ to any decent DAC (modi 2 uber, Concero HD, iFi iDSD micro) then to Lyr 2 with any decent NOS tubes-
 I can't go over 12noon on the knob until HE-560 are head blistering loud.
  
 won't say you are wrong about your set up, just really asking you to check the complete chain of your source material.
 this might be the first post (ever) on head-fi that claims Lyr 2 doesn't have enough power for HE-400/500/400i/560.


----------



## ghostchili

jexby said:


> this is just unreal- is your source material mastered ultra quiet?   some driver not at max volume at the OS level?  DAC level not putting out 2V?
> 
> 
> mac Audirvana+ to any decent DAC (modi 2 uber, Concero HD, iFi iDSD micro) then to Lyr 2 with any decent NOS tubes-
> ...




OS max volume, DAC max. Volume to the amps are the same with BiFrost or DirectStream. Some material is quieter than others, most of the time I run out of volume. The Lyr2 can rock my LCD-X at low gain. Unless I missed something as the Mac mini is new and I'm a PC guy. And when I run out of volume it's loud, just missing somerhing.


----------



## money4me247

ghostchili said:


> OS max volume, DAC max. Volume to the amps are the same with BiFrost or DirectStream. Some material is quieter than others, most of the time I run out of volume. The Lyr2 can rock my LCD-X at low gain. Unless I missed something as the Mac mini is new and I'm a PC guy. And when I run out of volume it's loud, just missing somerhing.


 
 you can max out the volume pot on your lyr 2 with the he-560 on high gain????
  
 lol. on high gain my lyr 2 is at like 6 o'clock or less. if your volume is maxed out everywhere else, contact schiit cs.
  
 also, try right click volume icon, playback devices -> right click your dac > properties > levels (make sure at 100% with balance correct). then select enhancements, disable all enhancements. then select advanced, select the right sampling rate & bit depth, uncheck allow applications to take exclusive control of this device & give exclusive mode applications priority.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> you can max out the volume pot on your lyr 2 with the he-560 on high gain????
> 
> lol. on high gain my lyr 2 is at like 6 o'clock or less. if your volume is maxed out everywhere else, contact schiit cs.
> 
> also, try right click volume icon, playback devices -> right click your dac > properties > levels (make sure at 100% with balance correct). then select enhancements, disable all enhancements. then select advanced, select the right sampling rate & bit depth, uncheck allow applications to take exclusive control of this device & give exclusive mode applications priority.


 
 That is amazing. I agree that something is not right.. I have the Lyr and the HE-560. Most rock/jazz is comfortably loud at 10-11 and lower level recorded classical from 12 to 1 PM. 
 As has been said-the signal going IN is low for some reason. If I turn it all the way up my ears would lose any remaining hearing.


----------



## ghostchili

money4me247 said:


> you can max out the volume pot on your lyr 2 with the he-560 on high gain????
> 
> lol. on high gain my lyr 2 is at like 6 o'clock or less. if your volume is maxed out everywhere else, contact schiit cs.
> 
> also, try right click volume icon, playback devices -> right click your dac > properties > levels (make sure at 100% with balance correct). then select enhancements, disable all enhancements. then select advanced, select the right sampling rate & bit depth, uncheck allow applications to take exclusive control of this device & give exclusive mode applications priority.


 

 Thanks for the info, I've had it set up that way from the get go. I'm also running bit perfect. I will try a few other things tomorrow like running my Fiio X1 to the amp.


----------



## ghostchili

rawrster said:


> The volume is definitely an issue on all the tubes I have. I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made.



 
I feel at 50% for my set-up it sounds good, and it's where my wife would keep it but I am a moderate to high level volume level kinda guy. My hearing is tested annually for my job so it's not my ears.


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > The volume is definitely an issue on all the tubes I have. I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made.
> ...


 
 It looks like the V281 puts out 40 Volts SE one HP:


> *TECHNICAL DATA HPA V281*
> All Measurements RMS unwtd., 20 Hz - 20 kHz, Pre-Gain set to 0 dB
> 
> Inputs:                                                   2 x XLR female, balanced,
> ...


 
  
 The Lyr (assuming Lyr 2 on High Gain) a similar amount into the 50 Ohm impedence of the 560's
  
 From SixMoons Review:


> To return to Lyr's apparent main attraction, peak swing into 32Ω is a mighty 40 volts. In casual Schiit slang this "will make the magic smoke come out of your headphones". So make no mistake, yes with such power you _could_ blow up your expensive Sennheiser HD800 or beyerdynamic T1 _if_ you cranked up the juice without wearing them. Anyone sane and not stone-deaf couldn't while actually listening. A 400 horse-power street rocket is potentially lethal too but only if not treated with respect. To author such a beast, the Lyr designers—have to—trust the intelligence of their audience not to do anything stupid. By implication it also means that a Lyr owner will possess a machine that'll properly drive any known headphone on the market. At least in the Schiit catalogue that makes it the only truly _universal_ model (and needless to say 120dB IEMs would seem silly in this contex


 

 I doubt a normally functioning and properly fed Lyr/Lyr2 could run out of juice on the 560's.  Now a $2300 amp may sound better at very high volume vs a $500 one.  That would be expected. Maybe the Hi-Lo Gain switch is malfunctioning?


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> It looks like the V281 puts out 40 Volts SE one HP:
> 
> The Lyr (assuming Lyr 2 on High Gain) a similar amount into the 50 Ohm impedence of the 560's
> 
> ...




The V281 is basically 2 improved V200's stacked. If you use SE it only uses 1 of the stacked amps, I was running the 560 balanced. I will take a closer look at the Lyr2 tomorrow.


----------



## rb2013

It seems the HiFi Man HE-6's are an extreme and well documented case of needing lot's of HP.  David Mahler used the AKG K1K speaker outputs of his WA5 to get them to sound good.  But the 560's shouldn't require that much muscle.
  
 From the 'Battle of 58 Flagships' thread:


> _n the time since writing my_ _20 Headphones Compared_ _thread, I have acquired a Woo Audio 5. Hearing the HE-6 through the K1K output (which is designed to pump 8 watts per channel at 150 Ohms) has really opened my eyes to just how amazing the HE-6 really can be. Iron Dreamer's_ _review of the HE-6/EF-6 combo_ _has piqued my interest in the EF-6 amp, but I haven't yet pulled the trigger on purchasing it. _


 
  From the 6Moons Lyr review:
 Quote:


> While the following isn't exact, it should suffice to convey the essentials. The Ortofon IEMs in this list were the obvious odd man out. I can't see _anyone_ using their kind on this amp. They were the only headphones to have the Lyr _slightly_ noisy. For the volume settings 7:00 equals mute. This progresses clockwise to full blast at 18:00.
> 
> *Headphones*
> *Source voltage*
> ...


 
  
  
 PS The Bifrost puts out Max 2V


----------



## Larryp12

*UPDATE:* I was in Upland, CA Friday and picked up a matched pair of Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922s for $80 at Upscale Audio. They were very busy Friday but I called in advance and I really appreciate the service and help that they provided me. It probably took less than a minute to remove the stock tubes and install the GLs. I loved the stock tubes and was skeptical as to if I would notice a difference in sound quality. *THE IMPROVEMENT WAS IMMEDIATE!! * I Probably listened to my Lyr 2 for 20 hours this weekend.


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made.


 
 For the new Lyr 2 owners the gain switch is for the type of HPs you have (are they high or low impedence and efficency).  For low impedence HP's like the HifiMan they definitely need the high gain setting.  The reason Schiit added the switch to the Lyr 2 was for IEM's and very high impedence HP's like the T1's.  The HD800's are borderline and could use either setting depending on results.  The original Lyr was always high gain.


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> The V281 is basically 2 improved V200's stacked. If you use SE it only uses 1 of the stacked amps, I was running the 560 balanced. I will take a closer look at the Lyr2 tomorrow.


 

 It looks like the PS Audio Direct Stream has two output settings:


> Analog Audio Output​ ​Connector​RCA/XLR Unbalanced /Balanced (X2)​Output level, low​1.41 Vrms(+5BV)/3.15​Output level high, maximum​2.81 Vrms (+8dBV)/5.3 Vrms (+12dBV)​


 
  
 So on the low level output setting and the HE-560's I could see where you might be getting gain issues as 1.4 V is kinda on the low side (between an iPod and standard CD player)(Bifrost is 2V).  The high setting should give you better gain with 2.8V - between a std CD player and many DAC's.  Worth a try.
  
 PS I noticed running balanced the PS Audio has much higher gain of 3.1V.  So could explain the better gain on the 281 - if you're running bal into it.


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> It looks like the PS Audio Direct Stream has two output settings:
> 
> So on the low level output setting and the HE-560's I could see where you might be getting gain issues as 1.4 V is kinda on the low side (between an iPod and standard CD player)(Bifrost is 2V).  The high setting should give you better gain with 2.8V - between a std CD player and many DAC's.  Worth a try.
> 
> PS I noticed running balanced the PS Audio has much higher gain of 3.1V.  So could explain the better gain on the 281 - if you're running bal into it.




I initially had the filter off but the button on the remote is right next to the Dim button which I use a lot to turn the display off. I will check that first once I get home.


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> I initially had the filter off but the button on the remote is right next to the Dim button which I use a lot to turn the display off. I will check that first once I get home.


 

 Is the high/low gain output activated by a button on the remote?  I'd be careful with that one.  Accidentally doubling your gain instantly, if you have the amp on a high vol level would be a shock.  Sure it's not a DIP or other switch?
  
 PS It look like the Balanced has 6dB of more gain then the SE -the SE gain switch in accessed from the front touch screen panel.
  
 From the manual PDF:
  


> DirectStream has two types of analog outputs, balanced XLR or single ended RCA. We do not recommend using both outputs at the same time. Be aware that most amplifiers and preamplifiers will produce 6dB higher level with the balanced outputs relative to the single ended outputs. If you are using both outputs be advised they will be at different levels. Our preference for connection to a power amplifier or preamplifier is through the balanced XLR outputs of DirectStream. If DirectStream has a gain mismatch with your power amplifier, you can use the balanced outputs and achieve 6dB more gain or choose the single ended RCA outputs for lower gain. DirectStream also has two output levels available to users. Go to the setup menu on the front panel touch screen to select the best output level.


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> Is the high/low gain output activated by a button on the remote?  I'd be careful with that one.  Accidentally doubling your gain instantly, if you have the amp on a high vol level would be a shock.  Sure it's not a DIP or other switch?




Yes, filter button, for a $6000 DAC it's a poor remote. Not even backlit. I will let you guys know and repost my findings.


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> Yes, filter button, for a $6000 DAC it's a poor remote. Not even backlit. I will let you guys know and repost my findings.


 

 I think the filter setting are different then the output level settings.  Makes sense to put the filter setting there as it nice to try them on the fly to see which you like best.  (See my PS on the above post for touch screen operation of output level).
  
 Despite the remote - this is one very high tech piece of gear! 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> I think the filter setting are different then the output level settings.  Makes sense to put the filter setting there as it nice to try them on the fly to see which you like best.  (See my PS on the above post for touch screen operation of output level).
> 
> Despite the remote - this is one very high tech piece of gear!
> 
> Cheers!




Adjusting the output level - DirectStream has two output levels, High and Low. In the standard output mode, DirectStream will provide adequate output level to directly feed a power amplifier without use of a preamplifier. If the power amplifier, or preamplifier, is overly sensitive or you need to reduce the output level of DirectStream for any reason, you can activate the output attenuator to reach a lower level. There should be no sonic penalty for doing so.
To turn on/off the output attenuator, press the filter button on the remote. Or, go to the setup screen which is accessible by touching the small tool icon at the top of the default screen


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> Adjusting the output level - DirectStream has two output levels, High and Low. In the standard output mode, DirectStream will provide adequate output level to directly feed a power amplifier without use of a preamplifier. If the power amplifier, or preamplifier, is overly sensitive or you need to reduce the output level of DirectStream for any reason, you can activate the output attenuator to reach a lower level. There should be no sonic penalty for doing so.
> To turn on/off the output attenuator, press the filter button on the remote. Or, go to the setup screen which is accessible by touching the small tool icon at the top of the default screen


 

 I see - makes sense it can go down but not up I guess.  If it's set for low just be careful to not forget then switch back to high while you have your HPs on, and vol high


----------



## Exacoustatowner

How many have tried the Lyr2 as a preamp for driving speakers? I ran my Lyr in through the CD input in my vintage Denon. I was quite pleased. It added a bit of tube sound to the SS Denon. Most significantly great stereo imaging! Fine localization and I was hearing music that seemed to come from the Right of my Right speaker and the left of my left speaker. Much nicer than using the Denon directly. I had the Lyr volume at 12 O'clock 
I


----------



## NoxNoctum

My Lyr gets quite hot in my listening sessions or after a long burn-in period -- is that OK or does it need to let it cool off sometimes? (I've got the Lyr 1, posting in here because this is the only active thread other than the tube rolling one)


----------



## sfo1972

noxnoctum said:


> My Lyr gets quite hot in my listening sessions or after a long burn-in period -- is that OK or does it need to let it cool off sometimes? (I've got the Lyr 1, posting in here because this is the only active thread other than the tube rolling one)


 

 This is not a problem, although I have a Lyr2, I heard Lyr1 exhibits the same heat characteristics as Lyr2. Its normal for it to get really hot and dissipate quite a bit of heat during extended sessions. In my last tubes burnin of 50+ hours, the rubber feet actually came off and I had to reattach them. I am looking at some of the options suggested by the guys on these boards for better feet.
  
 The one rule of thumb I have followed is to use common sense for how long to keep the Lyr running. I sometimes run it overnight with a spectrum sweep (Isotek CD) with new tubes to burn them in for listening. But I don't leave the Lyr running 24x7 just for the heck of it.  Running it and any tubes hard will cause them to eventually break-down. 
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

noxnoctum said:


> My Lyr gets quite hot in my listening sessions or after a long burn-in period -- is that OK or does it need to let it cool off sometimes? (I've got the Lyr 1, posting in here because this is the only active thread other than the tube rolling one)


 
 It's heat is due to the Class A amp operation-and the tubes. Quite normal. Make sure you have good air space around it.


----------



## money4me247

my rubber feet fell off too! lol. just stuck em back under, whatevs.


----------



## sfo1972

money4me247 said:


> my rubber feet fell off too! lol. just stuck em back under, whatevs.


 
  





  
 There are plenty of options from Home Depot, Walmart, and K-Mart by looking for rubber or foam feet that can be cut to whatever size you want. I just want to find the time to actually go to a similar outlet and get the feet.


----------



## NoxNoctum

exacoustatowner said:


> It's heat is due to the Class A amp operation-and the tubes. Quite normal. Make sure you have good air space around it.


 
 I've seen people putting their stuff on top of the Gungnir -- is that safe? 
  
 Right now mine is just on the floor with a bedsheet underneath.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> This is not a problem, although I have a Lyr2, I heard Lyr1 exhibits the same heat characteristics as Lyr2. Its normal for it to get really hot and dissipate quite a bit of heat during extended sessions. In my last tubes burnin of 50+ hours, the rubber feet actually came off and I had to reattach them. I am looking at some of the options suggested by the guys on these boards for better feet.
> 
> The one rule of thumb I have followed is to use common sense for how long to keep the Lyr running. I sometimes run it overnight with a spectrum sweep (Isotek CD) with new tubes to burn them in for listening. But I don't leave the Lyr running 24x7 just for the heck of it.  Running it and any tubes hard will cause them to eventually break-down.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 

 I run mine 24/7 - have been for yrs - unless I'm out of town.  I feel it sounds best with a day's warm up.  It has to do with the class A Mosfet outputs - that need to be at max temperature to sound optimal.  That's the way they are designed (I have some other class A amps that are the same).  Schiit designed the Lyr/Lyr2 to use the case as a heat sink - unique as far I'm aware for a class A amp.  That's why the case and vol knob get warm.  Best to use some kind of footer underneath to raise the Lyr a bit higher for good airflow.  I use Stillpoint mini risers - that also act to damping ambient vibrations from reaching the amp.
  
 You are right in that the run time will effect the life of the tubes - I look at it as just the cost of ownership.  I suppose you could run a cheap backup pair (stock) and swap before a long listening session.  The tubes themselves heat up pretty quick - 10 mins.
  
 PS These Symbio P-1s look pretty 'cool' - I have 
  
 not tried them


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > This is not a problem, although I have a Lyr2, I heard Lyr1 exhibits the same heat characteristics as Lyr2. Its normal for it to get really hot and dissipate quite a bit of heat during extended sessions. In my last tubes burnin of 50+ hours, the rubber feet actually came off and I had to reattach them. I am looking at some of the options suggested by the guys on these boards for better feet.
> ...


 

 Wow man, I didn't know that you kept it running all the time. That's pretty awesome...makes me slow down on getting a backup Lyr2...LOL, I love this AMP so much that I don't want to be without one for an extended period of time.
  
 Given that I think the HGs should be treated like gold...I think its best not to run them 24x7. It would be really sad to shorten the full enjoyment of these things.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Wow man, I didn't know that you kept it running all the time. That's pretty awesome...makes me slow down on getting a backup Lyr2...LOL, I love this AMP so much that I don't want to be without one for an extended period of time.
> 
> Given that I think the HGs should be treated like gold...I think its best not to run them 24x7. It would be really sad to shorten the full enjoyment of these things.


 

 Well I'm such an insane tube roller - that I always have tubes that need burnin time - so that's also part of it. 
  
 I have to say using this amp daily for over two years it's been one of the most reliable and trouble free pieces of audio gear I have owned.  Just a great design.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow man, I didn't know that you kept it running all the time. That's pretty awesome...makes me slow down on getting a backup Lyr2...LOL, I love this AMP so much that I don't want to be without one for an extended period of time.
> ...


 

 +1 What a great amp!


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> my rubber feet fell off too! lol. just stuck em back under, whatevs.







sfo1972 said:


> There are plenty of options from Home Depot, Walmart, and K-Mart by looking for rubber or foam feet that can be cut to whatever size you want. I just want to find the time to actually go to a similar outlet and get the feet.


I got some nice rubber feet from Amazon. These rubber feet are a tad larger and better quality than the stock rubber feet that came with the lyr2.


----------



## Audiotic

Pic?


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> money4me247 said:
> 
> 
> > my rubber feet fell off too! lol. just stuck em back under, whatevs.
> ...


 
  
  


audiotic said:


> Pic?


 

 Something like this reddog?
 http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Conical-Recessed-Rubber-Bumpers/dp/B008LTY1NO/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1427438790&sr=8-9&keywords=rubber+feet


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> Something like this reddog?
> http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Conical-Recessed-Rubber-Bumpers/dp/B008LTY1NO/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1427438790&sr=8-9&keywords=rubber+feet



Yes something just like that, is what I used.


----------



## jexby

my Schiity equipment uses BrightStar Isonode anti vibration feet.
 or the larger Pangea feet if not stacking.


----------



## sfo1972

jexby said:


> my Schiity equipment uses BrightStar Isonode anti vibration feet.
> or the larger Pangea feet if not stacking.


 

 I just checked them out, they look interesting. Did you get the basic one (30 lbs) or the middle one (60 lbs)? What is it that you like the most about these rubber feet?


----------



## jexby

Igot the basic Pangea, certainly are large enough for BiFrost sized chassis.
  
 the material of these (and isoNode) have some "give" to them, a tad more soft.
 and the rubber material "sticks" well to a warmed up unit, without resorting to glue/tape material on them also.
 yes easily removable with no residue.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Rb
 I knew I'd read that. I warmed up my Lyr for about an hour-put on Rachmaninoff Symphony # 2 Telarc- Andre Previn-Not at ALL impressed with the sound. Assumed it was a bad mastering job. Read reviews saying it sounds great. After a few more hours I went back and played it again. Much smoother violins (had been a bit edgy).
 Quote:


rb2013 said:


> I run mine 24/7 - have been for yrs - unless I'm out of town.  I feel it sounds best with a day's warm up.  It has to do with the class A Mosfet outputs - that need to be at max temperature to sound optimal.  That's the way they are designed (I have some other class A amps that are the same).  Schiit designed the Lyr/Lyr2 to use the case as a heat sink - unique as far I'm aware for a class A amp.  That's why the case and vol knob get warm.  Best to use some kind of footer underneath to raise the Lyr a bit higher for good airflow.  I use Stillpoint mini risers - that also act to damping ambient vibrations from reaching the amp.
> 
> You are right in that the run time will effect the life of the tubes - I look at it as just the cost of ownership.  I suppose you could run a cheap backup pair (stock) and swap before a long listening session.  The tubes themselves heat up pretty quick - 10 mins.
> 
> ...


----------



## mortcola

Well, just got the Bifrost Uber and Lyr2 for my Grado RS2i. I had a beautiful Ernestolone Carot 1 before, running optical into the DAC section.  The Schiit gear is widely superior. The solid dimensionality, tonal accuracy as well as beauty, the sense of space, groove, pace, all show how each recording is a completely unique experience.  The bass manages to be both fat and toned, if that makes any sense - great depth and control for "a tube amp", if any such distinction means anything anymore.  The guys at Grado told me personally that Schiit gear is what they all use and test their equipment on, personally and in manufacturing, so that tells you something. But I have been unable to pay attention to much else since I hooked the system up, it is so pleasurable. Sounds a little excessive, huh? Its just that this is pretty much the ideal sound I've aimed for in all my years in hi-end audio - nothing has come closer.  This must also be taken as an endorsement of the Bifrost Uber - if anyone out there still believes that bits are just bits, well, this suggests that nothing I ever heard before got the bits right until now.  Now, I can't wait to step up to the Grado Statements or Professional series cans.


----------



## NoxNoctum

Is switching out headphones while the Lyr is on a bad idea?
  
 I'm doing a lot of comparisons with several of the Audeze cans atm and I find it difficult to wait a minute after turning it off to turn it back on (Schiit advised me to give it a minute after turning it off before switching it back on again). It's rather difficult to work "from memory" when comparing cans that all have fairly close sound signatures.


----------



## ghostchili

noxnoctum said:


> Is switching out headphones while the Lyr is on a bad idea?
> 
> I'm doing a lot of comparisons with several of the Audeze cans atm and I find it difficult to wait a minute after turning it off to turn it back on (Schiit advised me to give it a minute after turning it off before switching it back on again). It's rather difficult to work "from memory" when comparing cans that all have fairly close sound signatures.




No, I do it all the time. I would recommend turning the volume down a little each time so you don't blow your eardrums out if the new headphone is more sensitive.


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> No, I do it all the time. I would recommend turning the volume down a little each time so you don't blow your eardrums out if the new headphone is more sensitive.


 

 +1


----------



## Mr Rick

noxnoctum said:


> Is switching out headphones while the Lyr is on a bad idea?
> 
> I'm doing a lot of comparisons with several of the Audeze cans atm and I find it difficult to wait a minute after turning it off to turn it back on (Schiit advised me to give it a minute after turning it off before switching it back on again). It's rather difficult to work "from memory" when comparing cans that all have fairly close sound signatures.


 
 As mentioned above, no problem. But, what you really need is a second LYR.


----------



## NightFlight

You should never have any headphone in/on your ears when you are plugging them in or turning on anything. The volume could be cranked and playing or something be wrong with the amp connections at that moment. You can replace the headphones if there's an issue and they get blown up. This is not true for your ears.
  
 I learned this when a friend who was wearing some crappy inefficient on-ears wanted to share something with me on his iPod. I was already listening to something, so unplugged and plugged in my sensitive Shure SE530's to his ipod and did the funky chicken for a bit there.
  
 He laughed his ass off, but I was pretty pissed off because I could have lost my hearing. I still have those three seconds on my list of the loudest things I have ever heard.  That being possibly #1, save for some gun shots.
  
 Along these lines... just a word to the wise... never fire off a shotgun indoors.


----------



## crixnet

nightflight said:


> Along these lines... just a word to the wise... never fire off a shotgun indoors.


 
 Man, you gotta be pretty bummed with something's SQ to resort to a shotgun.


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> Man, you gotta be pretty bummed with something's SQ to resort to a shotgun.


 

 Reminds me of that scene from 'Blackhawk Down'


----------



## crixnet

Howdy,
  
 I've been burning in tubes for the last few weeks, solid, and I'm looking to elevate my Lyr 2 to allow at least an inch of cooling clearance underneath it. 
  
 Can anyone recommend some decent isolating feet that don't cost a mint? Because buying my tube collection has hit my coin purse plenty hard. 
  
 Any help is appreciated!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Wise words. I always unplug my phones before turning the power on or off. Old habit! I also turn the volume off before swapping phones.
 I grew up in the Sierra's of California. Lots of guns around when I was young. Lost some hearing in right ear to ex brother in laws 44 Magnum. He fired when I was not looking and was not prepared. Ear plugs? Not then.
  
 Quote:


nightflight said:


> You should never have any headphone in/on your ears when you are plugging them in or turning on anything. The volume could be cranked and playing or something be wrong with the amp connections at that moment. You can replace the headphones if there's an issue and they get blown up. This is not true for your ears.
> 
> I learned this when a friend who was wearing some crappy inefficient on-ears wanted to share something with me on his iPod. I was already listening to something, so unplugged and plugged in my sensitive Shure SE530's to his ipod and did the funky chicken for a bit there.
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> Howdy,
> 
> I've been burning in tubes for the last few weeks, solid, and I'm looking to elevate my Lyr 2 to allow at least an inch of cooling clearance underneath it.
> 
> ...


 
 You could use these Vibrapod cones - they're $8 each.  I use them on some of my equipment.  The Lyr may side around a little on the metal tops, but a little blue tack could solve that.
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VBCONE&gclid=CjwKEAjw9PioBRDdpqy0-ofG3DgSJAACe5NEgfIqN2gVB62g3xIh44kWk7KH0W3gd4HeHvSUN7VKDhoCe4Hw_wcB
  
 These too:
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGPICO


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Good tip Rb! Thanks. I could not find the little rubber feet (just did) so mine has been sitting metal to metal on the top vented grill of my old Yamaha A/V (off). Hoping it uses as extra heat sink. These look like a better idea!


rb2013 said:


> You could use these Vibrapod cones - they're $8 each.  I use them on some of my equipment.  The Lyr may side around a little on the metal tops, but a little blue tack could solve that.
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VBCONE&gclid=CjwKEAjw9PioBRDdpqy0-ofG3DgSJAACe5NEgfIqN2gVB62g3xIh44kWk7KH0W3gd4HeHvSUN7VKDhoCe4Hw_wcB
> 
> These too:
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGPICO


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Hah ha! Well I do have a few portable CD players from previous decades that might make good skeet shooting items...
Now I'm curious to hear how the built in DACs sound. I'm guessing "strident with grainy treble." On the other hand my first CD player the Kyocera DA-1 sounded smooth and silky. It was Many years before I found a good replacement! 
quote name="rb2013" url="/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/945#post_11473793"]

Reminds me of that scene from 'Blackhawk Down'
[/quote]


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> crixnet said:
> 
> 
> > Howdy,
> ...




Thanks, Bob! I'll look into these.


----------



## crixnet

*D'oh!* I went back a couple of pages and realized that you guys had been discussing feet options. My apologies for rehashing the question.
  
 In the meantime, I've looked around quite a bit for feet alternatives and the two options Bob has recommended, the Vibrapod cones and the Pico Sorbothane feet, both seem like good ones.
  
 But regarding anything made of Sorbothane, can this material take the substantial heat that the Lyr 2 case puts out? As we know, that sucker gets downright toasty! I was just wondering if Sorbothane is heat-resistant or if it might off-gas after extended contact with the hot box.
  
 The Vibrapod cone design would pretty much avoid this issue altogether, considering that its steel ball bearing would be in contact with the case. However, the potential (inevitability?) of the amp's slipping around would be annoying. So, would Blue Stick be able to take the heat and keep the amp situated on the ball bearings? I've never used the stuff, myself.


----------



## David Aldrich

Spec sheet for Sorbothane shows an optimal temperature maximum of 150F and fair performance up to 200F. Should be no problem with even the hottest Lyr 2 which I can hold my hand on making it around 150F at the most.
  
 The adhesive may not do as well. Non adhesive pads and a drop of RTV silicone would be the best bet to attach them if you're concerned about any off gassing or slippage from heating the adhesive.


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> *D'oh!* I went back a couple of pages and realized that you guys had been discussing feet options. My apologies for rehashing the question.
> 
> In the meantime, I've looked around quite a bit for feet alternatives and the two options Bob has recommended, the Vibrapod cones and the Pico Sorbothane feet, both seem like good ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Another option and what I did with my Stillpoint raisers - I took the Lyr rubber pads off and glued them on top of the risers (just a tiny bit of glue).  They don't budge and the Lyr doesn't slip.  You could do the same for the Vibra's
  
 Also found the dealer on the Symbio P-1 -they are $87 for a set of three - I sent him a message to see if he will ship to the US and how much shipping would be.  These have a nice flat top like the Stillpoints, so with the Lyr pads on top perfect and stable.
 http://hificable.dk/produkter/6-diverse-tilbehoer/145-wm-audio-symbio-p-1/


----------



## Amictus

Sorbothane - I have had inexpensive Sorbothane feet on my Lyr mk. 1 for a few months without problems.


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> Another option and what I did with my Stillpoint raisers - I took the Lyr rubber pads off and glued them on top of the risers (just a tiny bit of glue).  They don't budge and the Lyr doesn't slip.  You could do the same for the Vibra's
> 
> Also found the dealer on the Symbio P-1 -they are $87 for a set of three - I sent him a message to see if he will ship to the US and how much shipping would be.  These have a nice flat top like the Stillpoints, so with the Lyr pads on top perfect and stable.
> http://hificable.dk/produkter/6-diverse-tilbehoer/145-wm-audio-symbio-p-1/


 
  
   
  
 Thanks, Bob. I like the Vibras and gluing the Lyr feet to the ball bearing sounds like a good solution.
  
  
  
 Quote:


amictus said:


> Sorbothane - I have had inexpensive Sorbothane feet on my Lyr mk. 1 for a few months without problems.


 
  
  
 That's good to know. Sorbothane feet are simple, inexpensive fixes. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Boogirl

Hi Forum
  
 I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.
  
 I would like to try out tube amping and am looking at either the *Lyr 2* or the Project Ember to pair with the above equipment.
  
 From going through the forums it would appear that both the Lyr 2 and the Project Ember are really good hybrids that work wonders for both the Q701s and the K712s.
  
  
 On first glance, the Project Ember seems a very attractive option:
  
 – The Project Ember (including UK shipping) works out about £100 cheaper than the Lyr 2
 – The Project Ember only needs 1 tube as opposed to 2 tubes, and the tube is really easy to change 
 – The Project Ember is said to match wonderfully with Qs and the Ks, with the appropriate tube
  
 However, I am not just interested in functionality or the price; I am interested in sound quality. One thing I noticed was that the Project Ember is *not* an A Class amp, whereas the Schiit Lyr 2 *is *one – I was therefore wondering whether the *Lyr 2's A Class status makes it better somehow than the Project Ember's non- A Class status*, and if so, then how exactly?
  
 There is also the point that the Lyr 2 uses two tubes, whereas Project Ember only uses one. I was wondering therefore what were the pros and cons of one tube hybrids vs two tube hybrids?
  
 Clearly, I can see that the Project Ember would be the cheaper option down the line once I start tube rolling, since only a single tube would be required. However, would only having one tube as opposed to two affect the sound in some way? If it does, would someone please be able to explain to me how?
  
  
 Thanks for reading my ramblings and I hope someone can help!


----------



## ghostchili

All of my Schiit is in the classifieds under amps. Trying to sell it as a set to one lucky buyer.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Hi Boogirl
As I understand it the single tube units use the tube as a "buffer" to give a "tube sound" whereas the dual tube amps like the Lyr are real tube preamps. The Lyr is class A and sounds great. Not sure about the Project Ember.
Also I could get no one to say that the Lyr2 sounded better than the Lyr. So I ended up with a B stock Lyr for $100 USD less than Lyr2. Lyr2 has selectable gain which makes it good for ear buds, whereas the Lyr does not. For me that was not interesting so I kept the Lyr. The Lyr and Lyr2 put out 6 watts RMS that can drive nearly any headphone to its fullest potential. Hope that helps.
If anyone wants to chime in on single vs double tubes and correct me if I'm wrong I am willing to be educated! 
quote name="Boogirl" url="/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/960#post_11479737"]Hi Forum

I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.

I would like to try out tube amping and am looking at either the *Lyr 2* or the Project Ember to pair with the above equipment.

From going through the forums it would appear that both the Lyr 2 and the Project Ember are really good hybrids that work wonders for both the Q701s and the K712s.


On first glance, the Project Ember seems a very attractive option:

– The Project Ember (including UK shipping) works out about £100 cheaper than the Lyr 2
– The Project Ember only needs 1 tube as opposed to 2 tubes, and the tube is really easy to change 
– The Project Ember is said to match wonderfully with Qs and the Ks, with the appropriate tube

However, I am not just interested in functionality or the price; I am interested in sound quality. One thing I noticed was that the Project Ember is *not* an A Class amp, whereas the Schiit Lyr 2 *is *one – I was therefore wondering whether the *Lyr 2's A Class status makes it better somehow than the Project Ember's non- A Class status*, and if so, then how exactly?

There is also the point that the Lyr 2 uses two tubes, whereas Project Ember only uses one. I was wondering therefore what were the pros and cons of one tube hybrids vs two tube hybrids?

Clearly, I can see that the Project Ember would be the cheaper option down the line once I start tube rolling, since only a single tube would be required. However, would only having one tube as opposed to two affect the sound in some way? If it does, would someone please be able to explain to me how?


Thanks for reading my ramblings and I hope someone can help!
[/quote]
I am belatedly editing my post! I am deeply embarrassed, As I sat in that restaurant typing away-I thought about explaining that it is Class A for most Headphones-but transitions to Class A/B on dynamic peaks. Then I got distracted and failed to edit my post. I think it was my hamburger arriving. Thanks to Money4me! I assume that with my HiFiMan HE-560 it is transitioning to A/B but I can't hear it.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I forgot to add that I find the tubes very easy to change
quote name="Exacoustatowner" url="/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/960#post_11479791"]Hi Boogirl
As I understand it the single tube units use the tube as a "buffer" to give a "tube sound" whereas the dual tube amps like the Lyr are real tube preamps. The Lyr is class A and sounds great. Not sure about the Project Ember.
Also I could get no one to say that the Lyr2 sounded better than the Lyr. So I ended up with a B stock Lyr for $100 USD less than Lyr2. Lyr2 has selectable gain which makes it good for ear buds, whereas the Lyr does not. For me that was not interesting so I kept the Lyr. The Lyr and Lyr2 put out 6 watts RMS that can drive nearly any headphone to its fullest potential. Hope that helps.
If anyone wants to chime in on single vs double tubes and correct me if I'm wrong I am willing to be educated! 
quote name="Boogirl" url="/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/960#post_11479737"]Hi Forum

I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.

I would like to try out tube amping and am looking at either the *Lyr 2* or the Project Ember to pair with the above equipment.

From going through the forums it would appear that both the Lyr 2 and the Project Ember are really good hybrids that work wonders for both the Q701s and the K712s.


On first glance, the Project Ember seems a very attractive option:

– The Project Ember (including UK shipping) works out about £100 cheaper than the Lyr 2
– The Project Ember only needs 1 tube as opposed to 2 tubes, and the tube is really easy to change 
– The Project Ember is said to match wonderfully with Qs and the Ks, with the appropriate tube

However, I am not just interested in functionality or the price; I am interested in sound quality. One thing I noticed was that the Project Ember is *not* an A Class amp, whereas the Schiit Lyr 2 *is *one – I was therefore wondering whether the *Lyr 2's A Class status makes it better somehow than the Project Ember's non- A Class status*, and if so, then how exactly?

There is also the point that the Lyr 2 uses two tubes, whereas Project Ember only uses one. I was wondering therefore what were the pros and cons of one tube hybrids vs two tube hybrids?

Clearly, I can see that the Project Ember would be the cheaper option down the line once I start tube rolling, since only a single tube would be required. However, would only having one tube as opposed to two affect the sound in some way? If it does, would someone please be able to explain to me how?


Thanks for reading my ramblings and I hope someone can help!
[/quote][/quote]


----------



## crixnet

boogirl said:


> Hi Forum
> 
> I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.
> 
> ...


 

 Probably not a surprise, but most folks on this thread will probably vote for the Lyr 2 as the better choice for a tube amp. It sounds fantastic, the price is amazing given its sound and tube-altering versatility. It's just a great amp.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

crixnet said:


> Probably not a surprise, but most folks on this thread will probably vote for the Lyr 2 as the better choice for a tube amp. It sounds fantastic, the price is amazing given its sound and tube-altering versatility. It's just a great amp.


 It really sounds great! Had it for less than a month and I'm already rolling


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Yeah, as I said elsewhere, AKG K7xx basically fornicates with the Lyr. The pairing is ridiculously good. I have actually shed a tear or two with this pairing. I do not know about Ember though as it also sounds like a great amp. I personally do not like the Lyr that much with my Senns; it's not bad but nothing special. Still looking into an OTL for those high Z cans. Lyr is also excellent for planars.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> Yeah, as I said elsewhere, AKG K7xx basically fornicates with the Lyr. The pairing is ridiculously good. I have actually shed a tear or two with this pairing. I do not know about Ember though as it also sounds like a great amp. I personally do not like the Lyr that much with my Senns; it's not bad but nothing special. Still looking into an OTL for those high Z cans. Lyr is also excellent for planars.



It is fantastic with my 42 Ohm HiFIMan HE-560 (planar) and my old hybrid dynamic electrostatic AKG 340's- although the HiFIMan is the better of the two.


----------



## money4me247

at all the above posts claiming the Lyr 2 is pure class A, you guys are all incorrect lol. ought to be ashamed of yourselves as lyr 2 owners.

Boogirl



> "A refined Dynamically Adaptive output stage transitions seamlessly from Class A to Class AB, for excellent overall efficiency."
> 
> Topology: Dynamically Adaptive Class A/AB, noninverting, hybrid tube/MOSFET, single voltage gain stage, DC-coupled input and output



source: http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2

This means the Lyr 2 is a class AB hybrid tube amp.


----------



## DavidA

boogirl said:


> Hi Forum
> 
> I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.
> 
> ...


 

 I have both the Lyr2 and Ember and they are both good solid amps.  The way that I have been using the two amps is having tubes that are different in each; might have bright tubes in Lyr2 and warm tube in Ember so that I can go back and forth between the two depending on which headphone and genre of music I feel like at the time.  I know this doesn't help you much but I find that the synergy between a headphone and amp changes with the tubes you use.  As an example: I like my HD-700, RS2e, HE-560, and HE-400i on the ember with a bugle boy tube which brings out the bass and tames the highs.  The Lyr2 pairs well with HD-650, SRH-1840 and LCD-2f
  
 Lyr2: As you said changing 2 tubes is going to cost more but I found that it affects the sound more with the tubes that I currently have.  If you are going to roll many tubes I would suggest getting extenders like this : http://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm.  Another "issue" I have with the Lyr2 is that it gets hot, very hot.  Coming from a computer background I was always trying to keep electronics (computers, DVR, AMPs, etc) as cool as possible to prolong the life of the equipment.
  
 Ember: best feature of the ember is the ability to change the out put impedance to match the headphone that you are using.   The ember also runs quite cool and with the open design heat is not an issue.
  
 Bottom line: its hard to wrong with either, may come down to what headphones you have, I would look at the threads of the headphones that you have and see what amps are recommend for them.
  
 Good luck


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> at all the above posts claiming the Lyr 2 is pure class A, you guys are all incorrect lol. ought to be ashamed of yourselves as lyr 2 owners.
> 
> @Boogirl
> source: http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2
> ...


 
 I belatedly edited my post. Embarrassed I am!


----------



## money4me247

exacoustatowner said:


> I belatedly edited my post. Embarrassed I am!




hahah u shld b 

also btw number of tubes does not correlate with OTL design or hybrid design. really can have however many tubes you wanna stick in there for either design. lyr 2 is a hybrid with solid state & tube just like ember.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> hahah u shld b
> 
> also btw number of tubes does not correlate with OTL design or hybrid design. really can have however many tubes you wanna stick in there for either design. lyr 2 is a hybrid with solid state & tube just like ember.



Thanks! I can barely look up from my shoes.


----------



## Rem0o

exacoustatowner said:


> I belatedly edited my post. Embarrassed I am!


 
 Actually, I believe the bias of the Lyr adjusts depending on the load, going from class A for the first few mW then transistion in push-pull class AB for current hungry loads.


----------



## rb2013

boogirl said:


> Hi Forum
> 
> I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.
> 
> ...


 
 The Project Ember is only a tube buffer of an opamp output stage.  That is why it needs only one tube and can use a wide variety of tubes.  Having a tube buffer after an opamp is just adding tube noise over the solid state outputs.  A true tube output will have greater liquidity, musicality and holographic sound staging - with the better sounding tubes installed.  The Lyr2 uses a true DC heated tube output stage.
  
 Class 'A' single ended mosfet amps have the purest sound, followed by the Class 'A' push-pull, then Class A/B.  The Lyr/Lyr2 uses adaptive biasing to switch from one mode to the next depending on power needs.
  
 Music is dynamic and mostly require little current - then of course has dynamic passages.  All this depends on the kind of music you listen to.  During the majority of the music passage the Lyr/Lyr2 (they share the same output stage), remains in Class A, but during those peak transients where extra current is needed -the amp will 'adapt' it's biasing to provide more current - in real time.  So you don't notice it.  Class A/B is more power efficient but has what is called switching distortion - so it should be used at a min. 
  
 So the Lyr/Lyr2 is the best of both worlds - Class A during those quieter passages where tonality is most noticed - but high current output(up to 6 Watts!) during loud and complex passages.  Really an engineering marvel!  Kudos to Schiit for such an innovative design.  The one downside is it runs warm - as all Class A amps do. 
  
 Anyone who owns a Lyr/Lyr2 doubts it runs in class A - just play it for a few hours then put your hand on the top!
 It's not the tubes making it warm - the design uses the case as a thermal heatsink for the class A mosfet output devices.
  
 This noted reviewer called the Lyr one of best headphone amps ever made.


> But I'd not recommend that preamp buyers pursue the Lyr as primary target. Its illustrious headphone performance only diminishes in that application. To equal it as a preamp takes longer green. And to jump ahead, *to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5.** *


 
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> at all the above posts claiming the Lyr 2 is pure class A, you guys are all incorrect lol. ought to be ashamed of yourselves as lyr 2 owners.
> 
> @Boogirl
> source: http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2
> ...


 
 That is not true - period...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


money4me247 said:


> hahah u shld b
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 OTL refers to amps that use tubes as output devices.  It has nothing to do with hybrid designs.  In a hybrid design the pre-amp stage is tube and the output stage is solid state.  The OTL refers to 'Output Transformer Less', in amps with tube output stages there is a big mismatch in output impedance, there must be a coupling that converts the output impedance to the proper level.  Most tube amps use transformers, some do not.  Completely irrelevant when speaking of hybrid designs.  The outputs of hybrid solid state devices often use a coupling stage between the tube pre and the ss outputs.  These can be and often are large capacitors, but can be transformers, the Lyr uses a unique DC servo circuit.


----------



## money4me247

@ above. the lyr 2 is a hybrid adaptive class a/ab amp per schiit. not a true class a as people are claiming.



> Topology: Dynamically Adaptive Class A/AB, noninverting, hybrid tube/MOSFET, single voltage gain stage, DC-coupled input and output




yes otl and hybrid designs are different. u misunderstand my post. i was clarifying that the number of tubes does not correlate to the amplifier's topology or class. it was a response to another post that claimed that the lyr is otl class a.


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> This means the Lyr 2 is a class AB hybrid tube amp.


----------



## money4me247

rb2013 said:


> :wink_face:




u cannot call a class ab amplifier that switches between classes as a pure class a amplifier. the definition of class ab means it switches between class a and class b. of course part of its operation is class a. lol


----------



## Boogirl

rb2013 said:


> The Project Ember is only a tube buffer of an opamp output stage.  That is why it needs only one tube and can use a wide variety of tubes.  Having a tube buffer after an opamp is just adding tube noise over the solid state outputs.  A true tube output will have greater liquidity, musicality and holographic sound staging - with the better sounding tubes installed.  The Lyr2 uses a true DC heated tube output stage.
> 
> Class 'A' single ended mosfet amps have the purest sound, followed by the Class 'A' push-pull, then Class A/B.  The Lyr/Lyr2 uses adaptive biasing to switch from one mode to the next depending on power needs.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you *rb2013 *for this very helpfull information


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> u cannot call a class ab amplifier that switches between classes as a pure class a amplifier. the definition of class ab means it switches between class a and class b. of course part of its operation is class a. lol


 

 You wouldn't want a 'pure' or strictly Class A solid state amp as it would have to be very large to have enough power to supply plenty of current at peak transients.  This would be a killer on the electric bill and put out tremendous heat ( I had a 100 watt class A Krell - it was a space heater).   Or it would be severely limited dynamically - especially on low impedance HPs.


----------



## rb2013

boogirl said:


> Thank you *rb2013 *for this very helpfull information


 

 Glad to help - the review is really good and goes into a lot of depth.  It's the reason I bought my Lyr, it had me curious, at the time I had a Woo WA6SE.  With the right tubes the Lyr was better for me and I sold the Woo.  The tubes you use in the Lyr will make a big difference.
  
 Here is the tube review thread I recently posted.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes

 Cheers!


----------



## money4me247

rb2013 said:


> You wouldn't want a 'pure' or strictly Class A amp as it would have to be very large to have enough power to supply plenty of current at peak transients.  This would be a killer on the electric bill and put out tremendous heat ( I had a 100 watt class A Krell - it was a space heater).   Or it would be severely limited dynamically - especially on low impedance HPs.




that is not true. the wa7 is pure class A and can run low impedance headphones. my issue with your post is that you are implying that the lyr 2s class ab is somehow special or a more pure class a than other class ab when a lot of class ab amps run purely class a when it is possible. that is how class ab works.

very good summary otherwise


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> that is not true. the wa7 is pure class A and can run low impedance headphones. my issue with your post is that you are implying that the lyr 2s class ab is somehow special or a more pure class a than class ab when a lot of class ab amps run purely class a when it is possible. that is how class ab works.


 

 Again I disagree with your statement.  The Woo WA7 is tube output based (6C45) - you're comparing apples and oranges.  Almost every tube output amp is biased class A (push-pull - some SE).  That is not the case with solid state outputs.  You're confusing some headphone amp designs. 


> The Woo Audio WA7 “Fireflies” Amp/DAC is a combination of high performance vacuum tube headphone amplifier with a built-in USB Digital-to-Analog Converter. It is a pure tube design, utilizing 6C45 tubes in a class-A, single-ended topology, with transformer coupled outputs.​


 
  
 That is not how class A/B works and the Lyr is different.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier
  
 "A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing"
_Alexander Pope_


----------



## money4me247

rb2013 said:


> Again I disagree with your statement.  The Woo WA7 is tube output based (6C45) - you're are comparing apples and oranges.  Almost every tube output amp is biased class A (push-pull - some SE).  That is not the case with solid state outputs.  You're confusing some headphone amp designs.
> 
> That is not how class A/B works and the Lyr is different.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier


 
  
 You are right that there are many implementations of class A/B, but the lyr's implementation of class A/B with class A operation at lower output levels is not one-of-a-kind invented-by-schiit only featured in the lyr as you are implying. It is a common topology among modern class a/b amplifiers be able to act as solely class A at lower output levels. The fact is that the lyr is a class a/b amplifier since it does not do pure class A. definition of a pure class A amplifier means it does not go into class B.
  


> *Class AB*
> This is the compromise of the bunch. Class AB operation has some of the best advantages of both Class A and Class B built-in. Its main benefits are sound quality comparable to that of Class A and efficiency similar to that of Class B. Most modern amp designs employ this topology.
> 
> Its main characteristics are:
> ...


 
 http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/174-types-amplifiers-class-class-b-class-ab-class-d.html
  
 also, judging amplifiers solely based on class would be a mistake. there can be well-implemented class A and well-implemented class a/b amplifiers & poorly-implemented class A or class a/b. The lyr 2 is a well-designed class a/b amplifier that operates as class A at some output levels, but that doesn't mean that all Class A is inherently superior or that its operation while in Class A is superior than its Class A/B operation.


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> You are right that there are many implementations of class A/B, but the lyr's implementation of class A/B with class A operation at lower output levels is not one-of-a-kind invented-by-schiit only featured in the lyr as you are implying.


 

 Never implied such a thing - in fact I own two integrated that use a similar biasing topology.  As did a few other innovative amp designers.  Now how Schiit implemented the adaptive biasing could be unique.  You would have to have them explain it to you - doubt they would as it's most likely proprietary information. I can not think of another head phone amp that uses this kind of dynamic biasing - but there surely are a few.
  
 Can you name another one?
  
 My point is class A/B is not the same as class A adaptive biasing.


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> You are right that there are many implementations of class A/B, but the lyr's implementation of class A/B with class A operation at lower output levels is not one-of-a-kind invented-by-schiit only featured in the lyr as you are implying. It is a common topology among modern class a/b amplifiers be able to act as solely class A at lower output levels. The fact is that the lyr is a class a/b amplifier since it does not do pure class A. definition of a pure class A amplifier means it does not go into class B.
> 
> http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/174-types-amplifiers-class-class-b-class-ab-class-d.html
> 
> also, judging amplifiers solely based on class would be a mistake. there can be well-implemented class A and well-implemented class a/b amplifiers & poorly-implemented class A or class a/b. The lyr 2 is a well-designed class a/b amplifier that operates as class A at some output levels, but that doesn't mean that all Class A is inherently superior or that its operation while in Class A is superior than its Class A/B operation.


 
 Again you are confusing amp designs - Class A/B means exactly that a compromise between Class A and Class B.  We are not talking about Class B amps.
  
 What makes the Lyr unique is that is operates *solely* in Class A most of the time (depending on volume), then switches over *to* A/B when needed.  What also makes the Lyr unique is that the biasing for Class A to Class A/B is not static - but dynamic.  In real time.  The 'adaptive bias' is the special sauce, and what makes it different, what allows it to remain in class A for most of the time without sacrificing dynamics.  What also makes it stand out in it's price class is the implementation of MOSFET outputs vs other designs.  It is very rare to see a MOSFET solid state amp that runs as single ended class A.  But again they are not unique.
 http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_zen_amp.pdf
  
 PS Added for clarification:
 Difference in operation from Class A push-pull and Class B push-pull:
 http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes
 Class A


> ...The defining principle of Class A operation is that all of an amplifier’s output devices must be conducting through the full 360 degree cycle of a waveform. Class A can also be broken down into single ended and push/pull amplifiers. Push/pull diverges from the basic explanation above by utilizing output devices in pairs. While both devices are conducting through the full 360 degree cycle, one device will shoulder more of the load during the positive portion of the cycle, while the other handles more of the negative cycle; the primary advantage of this arrangement is reduced distortion relative to single ended designs, as even order harmonics are cancelled out.


 
 Class A/B:


> ...The solution is actually fairly simple in concept: where Class B utilizes a push/pull arrangement with each half of the output stage conducting for 180 degrees, Class A/B amplifiers bump that up to ~181-200 degrees...


 
 So for each individual waveform the Class A devices handle the whole 360 degrees of each, in Class A/B the 180 degree (half way point) of Class B is pushed to say 200 degrees.  There is still a device switching going on *During* each waveform.  The switching point or crossover point is just moved higher into the waveform.  There still is crossover distortion.  So A/B is a move from B purely at 180 degrees closer to A's 360 degrees.  But not Class A's purity - that is each device handling the whole waveform.
  
 Edit: correction in a typo Class B should have read Class A/B - corrected.  Added further explanation for clarification


----------



## money4me247

rb2013 said:


> Never implied such a thing - in fact I own two integrated that use a similar biasing topology.  As did a few other innovative amp designers.  Now how Schiit implemented the adaptive biasing could be unique.  You would have to have them explain it to you - doubt they would as it's most likely proprietary information. I can not think of another head phone amp that uses this kind of dynamic biasing - but there surely are a few.
> 
> Can you name another one?
> 
> My point is class A/B is not the same as class A adaptive biasing.


 
 I am not interested in getting in a pissing match and I agree with your last point. I never claimed that it to be the same thing. A quick google search would reveal the information if you are interested in alternative products.
  
 All I was saying is that it would be a mistake to categorize an amplifier with class a/b operation as a pure class A amplifier as the original poster did. also, the class A operation in a class a/b amplifier is not uncommon. I don't see how those two points are controversial or worth arguing over. the dynamic biasing and how specifically the lyr switches between class A and B is not something I ever mentioned.
  
 In summary, I think the information you provided is quite helpful for those interested in the subject and not sure why or what you are arguing for. I think you may be misunderstanding my posts.


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> I am not interested in getting in a pissing match and I agree with your last point. I never claimed that it to be the same thing. A quick google search would reveal the information if you are interested in alternative products.
> 
> All I was saying is that it would be a mistake to call an amplifier with class a/b as a pure class A amplifier as the original poster did. also, the class A operation in a class a/b amplifier is not uncommon. I don't see how those two points are controversial or worth arguing over.
> 
> In summary, I think the information you provided is quite helpful for those interested in the subject and not sure why or what you are arguing for. I think you may be misunderstanding my posts.


 

 I did a google search didn't find any.
  
 But here is one I'm getting in line for - HiFiMan EF1000.  Should be $3k - $5K. 
  
 The word pure is a misnomer and should not be used in describing the Lyr - nor should it be called a 'pure' class A/B amp as some have implied. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It should be called what it is 'adaptive' class A.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Boogirl

rb2013 said:


> Glad to help - the review is really good and goes into a lot of depth.  It's the reason I bought my Lyr, it had me curious, at the time I had a Woo WA6SE.  With the right tubes the Lyr was better for me and I sold the Woo.  The tubes you use in the Lyr will make a big difference.
> 
> Here is the tube review thread I recently posted.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
> ...


 
 I read on various forums, including in the 6moons review that the tubes in the Lyr are really difficult to change. Someone has even claimed to have once broken a tube whist trying to replace it. This does not sound very good, but I am wondering how much kudos I should really be giving this concern. Are people exaggerating how difficult it is to change the tube.
 I was wondering what peoples experience is of changing the tubes here?


----------



## Tuco1965

I find it easy to change tubes in my Lyr by gripping the top with the soft foam packing some of my tubes come with.  This is just my experience with my hands.  YMMV


----------



## rb2013

boogirl said:


> I read on various forums, including in the 6moons review that the tubes in the Lyr are really difficult to change. Someone has even claimed to have once broken a tube whist trying to replace it. This does not sound very good, but I am wondering how much kudos I should really be giving this concern. Are people exaggerating how difficult it is to change the tube.
> I was wondering what peoples experience is of changing the tubes here?


 

 They are snuggled in there pretty good, but most of us tube rollers use these risers.  That makes it really easy, and it looks really cool too.  They're sometimes referred to as 'socket savers' These are the ones I use, but there are cheaper on Ebay.
  
 Over on the Lyr tube roller thread there have been some inventive methods to remove the tubes, using little foam tubes, etc...
 I have never heard of anyone breaking a tube by removing it.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## Rem0o

rb2013 said:


> Again you are confusing amp designs - Class A/B means exactly t*hat Class A and Class B*.  *We are not talking about Class B amps*.
> 
> What makes the Lyr unique is that is operates *solely* in Class A most of the time (depending on volume), then switches over *to* A/B when needed.  What also makes the Lyr unique is that *the biasing for Class A to Class B *is not static - but dynamic.  In real time.  The 'adaptive bias' is the special sauce, and what makes it different, what allows it to remain in class A for most of the time without sacrificing dynamics.  What also makes it stand out in it's price class is the implementation of MOSFET outputs vs other designs.  It is very rare to see a MOSFET solid state amp that runs as single ended class A.  But again they are not unique.
> http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_zen_amp.pdf


 
 It seems there is confusion about amp class design all arround these posts. Instead of spreading wrong or partially wrong information and arguing over it, I suggest the following website if you want to learn about the definition of each amp class design. Some electronic knowledge is required though.
  
 http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/amplifier-classes.html


----------



## rb2013

rem0o said:


> It seems there is confusion about amp class design all arround these posts. Instead of spreading wrong or partially wrong information and arguing over it, I suggest the following website if you want to learn about the definition of each amp class design. Some electronic knowledge is required though.
> 
> http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/amplifier-classes.html


 

 There is nothing that I have said or posted that is incorrect about amplifier design or operation.  That link fails to explain the difference between push pull and single ended.  Also the differences for tube versus solid state in practical audio applications.
  
 But you some might find these helpful
 http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm
 http://electronicdesign.com/analog/tubes-versus-solid-state-audio-amps-last-word-or-house-fire-part-2
 http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes
  
 I wish folks would just go to the Schiit website - it just takes two minutes:


> It’s a current-sensing adaptive output topology which allows the amplifier to dynamically adjust to the headphone load. The primary benefits are essentially single-ended Class-A operation for high-impedance headphones, moving seamlessly to push-pull Class A and finally into Class AB as current needs increase. This provides much higher overall efficiency.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. Some great posts, Bob.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Lol. Some great posts, Bob.


 

 I hate getting picky/cranky in the morning.  LOL!    Apologies to everyone - it's all good...


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > Lol. Some great posts, Bob.
> ...


 

 No worries, Bob.
  
_"It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness." _


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> No worries, Bob.
> 
> _"It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness." _


 

 I did typo one very important error - I corrected and added a further explanation.
 Thanks OP!  I see what you were saying.


----------



## Boogirl

rb2013 said:


> They are snuggled in there pretty good, but most of us tube rollers use these risers.  That makes it really easy, and it looks really cool too.  They're sometimes referred to as 'socket savers' These are the ones I use, but there are cheaper on Ebay.
> 
> Over on the Lyr tube roller thread there have been some inventive methods to remove the tubes, using little foam tubes, etc...
> I have never heard of anyone breaking a tube by removing it.
> ...


 
 Thank you for all your help. I'm pretty much decided on the Lyr 2 once I raise the money in about a month. Until then I'm going to study your Tube rolling review which i am also thankful for


----------



## rb2013

boogirl said:


> Thank you for all your help. I'm pretty much decided on the Lyr 2 now


 

 Awesome!  After you get it  - remember it needs a 100 hrs of playtime to sound best.  The tubes and caps need to burnin.  Down the road if you want - try some inexpensive vintage tubes - lots of folks to help guide you based on your system and tastes. 
  
 Or just be happy with the stock tubes - either way have fun!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## crixnet

A big +1 on socket savers! I have zero trouble removing tubes with these babies. I just use a microfiber cloth, but anything other than bare fingers works fine. Just pull up slowly and deliberately and they come right out. Simple!


----------



## money4me247

Boogirl

tubes are indeed quite hard to insert correctly and remove. i wld strongly recommend gettin tube socket savers or tube risers if u r nterestd n rolling tubes at all. do note that rolling tubes can get pricey when u are looking for a pair of tubes (doubles the cost). the popularly recommended 'inexpensive' NOS tubes will all be over $100 if not more for a pair (usually $100 at least per tube). that being said, there are a lot of fun tubes to try under that price point as well and a lot of tube rollers are simply doing it bc they enjoy the journey & enjoy playin around w different ones. be careful when purchasing tubes, a lot of markups or scams out there, so just do ur homework.

enjoy ur new gear & have fun!


----------



## rb2013

Vintage tubes can run from $50/pr for the very popular Amperex Orange Globes to $100/pr for Siemens and others.
  
 Of course the very best are more expensive - but the pay off is near sota sound.  So it all comes down to your budget and commitment to it.  The nice part is you can start off enjoying great music and easily upgrade down the road if you feel like it.
  
 The Lyr 2 has plenty of power to drive almost any headphone and a gain switch to reduce the gain for those very sensitive IE's.  So it's quite versatile as well.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> Boogirl
> 
> tubes are indeed quite hard to insert correctly and remove. i wld strongly recommend gettin tube socket savers or tube risers if u r nterestd n rolling tubes at all. do note that rolling tubes can get pricey when u are looking for a pair of tubes (doubles the cost). the popularly recommended 'inexpensive' NOS tubes will all be over $100 if not more for a pair (usually $100 at least per tube). that being said, there are a lot of fun tubes to try under that price point as well and a lot of tube rollers are simply doing it bc they enjoy the journey & enjoy playin around w different ones. be careful when purchasing tubes, a lot of markups or scams out there, so just do ur homework.
> 
> enjoy ur new gear & have fun!



Oddly, I find tubes very easy to remove and put in with the Lyr. I've swapped out the stock for 2 sets I got from Rob with little force and no trouble. I'm evidently in the minority


----------



## Tuco1965

exacoustatowner said:


> Oddly, I find tubes very easy to remove and put in with the Lyr. I've swapped out the stock for 2 sets I got from Rob with little force and no trouble. I'm evidently in the minority


 
  
 I'm with you on the easy part.  I can swap mine while the amp is sitting in my stand.


----------



## crixnet

exacoustatowner said:


> Oddly, I find tubes very easy to remove and put in with the Lyr. I've swapped out the stock for 2 sets I got from Rob with little force and no trouble. I'm evidently in the minority


 
  


tuco1965 said:


> I'm with you on the easy part.  I can swap mine while the amp is sitting in my stand.


 
  
 Not a problem changing tubes for me, either. Again, socket savers are the key to getting those suckers in and out quickly and easily.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL. JK 


exacoustatowner said:


> Oddly, I find tubes very easy to remove and put in with the Lyr. I've swapped out the stock for 2 sets I got from Rob with little force and no trouble. I'm evidently in the minority


----------



## Exacoustatowner

crixnet said:


> Not a problem changing tubes for me, either. Again, socket savers are the key to getting those suckers in and out quickly and easily.



I don't have socket savers-yet. And my hands are a little bigger than in the picture.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have no doubt that the socket savers make life easier.  I actually prefer the look of the Lyr in stock form.  With the tubes partially out I visualize hybrid.  Yeah it's probably just me, but that's how I see it.


----------



## crixnet

tuco1965 said:


> I have no doubt that the socket savers make life easier.  I actually prefer the look of the Lyr in stock form.  With the tubes partially out I visualize hybrid.  Yeah it's probably just me, but that's how I see it.


 

 Whatever makes the boat float, man!


----------



## kman1211

exacoustatowner said:


> Oddly, I find tubes very easy to remove and put in with the Lyr. I've swapped out the stock for 2 sets I got from Rob with little force and no trouble. I'm evidently in the minority


 
 I'm the same, the tubes are easy for me to get out without socket savers. I have socket savers but they change the sound, not sure if I like the change or not. I'll have to spend more time with the sockets savers in.


----------



## crixnet

kman1211 said:


> exacoustatowner said:
> 
> 
> > Oddly, I find tubes very easy to remove and put in with the Lyr. I've swapped out the stock for 2 sets I got from Rob with little force and no trouble. I'm evidently in the minority
> ...




I'm not sure how they could change the sound. They should be sonically inert.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

crixnet said:


> I'm not sure how they could change the sound. They should be sonically inert.



To play "Devil's Advocate" people say cables sound different...


----------



## kman1211

crixnet said:


> I'm not sure how they could change the sound. They should be sonically inert.


 
 They should be sonically inert but the difference is very obvious to my ears, I tried it with and without numerous times. Sometimes the difference is greater than changing tubes, especially in regards to what happens to the soundstage and imaging. Each tube reacts differently to the socket savers as well, some more favorably than others. But generally the sound becomes a little brighter overall and more spacious with the socket savers.


----------



## crixnet

I've not heard that. I'd be curious to hear Bob's take on this, being that he is a master roller with decades of experience.


----------



## kman1211

crixnet said:


> I've not heard that. I'd be curious to hear Bob's take on this, being that he is a master roller with decades of experience.




I haven't really come heard about anyone else who has bothered to swap the socket savers in and out to see any sonic changes as they can be a pain to remove. The only reason I started testing this is because I immediately noticed a change in the sound when I first put the socket savers in. I use a tube I don't like(stock tube) or a bad tube to easily take the socket savers out. It would be interesting to hear his opinion of this.


----------



## RedBull

@Kman, you are not alone, my socket savers change the sounds of my tube. See my recent post in ember thread.
I even ask around if tube socket is easily damage or not otherwise i won't bother to use socket savers.
It could also possible i got a not so good quality socket savers.


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> I've not heard that. I'd be curious to hear Bob's take on this, being that he is a master roller with decades of experience.


 

 I did a long and very extensive comparison with and without the socket savers - I could not tell a difference good or bad.
  
 PS Now on cables...Whoa!  A whole other matter.  But let's not go down that rabbit hole!


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> I haven't really come heard about anyone else who has bothered to swap the socket savers in and out to see any sonic changes as they can be a pain to remove. The only reason I started testing this is because I immediately noticed a change in the sound when I first put the socket savers in. I use a tube I don't like(stock tube) or a bad tube to easily take the socket savers out. It would be interesting to hear his opinion of this.


 

 Which socket savers are you using?


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> Which socket savers are you using?




The novib ones, the older model. I found cables to really change things as well. Makes me wonder why I'm noticing such a difference with the socket savers. I did tests where I had only one socket saver in and each channel sounded different on the same tubes.

@RedBull - I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed a difference, I have two socket savers and they both impact the sound so who knows.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

kman1211 said:


> The novib ones, the older model. I found cables to really change things as well. Makes me wonder why I'm noticing such a difference with the socket savers. I did tests where I had only one socket saver in and each channel sounded different on the same tubes.
> 
> @RedBull - I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed a difference, I have two socket savers and they both impact the sound so who knows.



Time to start Socket Savers Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> The novib ones, the older model. I found cables to really change things as well. Makes me wonder why I'm noticing such a difference with the socket savers. I did tests where I had only one socket saver in and each channel sounded different on the same tubes.
> 
> @RedBull - I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed a difference, I have two socket savers and they both impact the sound so who knows.


 

 I had the older novib and they started to fail - began hearing noise.  I recently got the news ones and those issues are gone.  I roll an intense amount and just wore the old ones out.
  
 My system is pretty refined - can hear differences in buffer size changes in Foobar - same for ASIO vs KS.  Small things like that.  And the HD800's are notorious for responding to slight SQ changes as well.
  
 Well simple enough solution,if they don't work for you - just don't use them.


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> I had the older novib and they started to fail - began hearing noise.  I recently got the news ones and those issues are gone.  I roll an intense amount and just wore the old ones out.
> 
> My system is pretty refined - can hear differences in buffer size changes in Foobar - same for ASIO vs KS.  Small things like that.  And the HD800's are notorious for responding to slight SQ changes as well.
> 
> Well simple enough solution,if they don't work for you - just don't use them.


 
 So the pair of socket savers I have could possibly be defective? I don't dislike all the changes that it makes. But it does hurt the clarity a bit and there is a bit of a fuzz in the background with them.
  
 I find my system fairly refined as well, subtle differences like that are noticeable. Though I don't think I have anything as sensitive as the HD 800. My most sensitive headphone to changes is the K712, though I find the HD 650 and HD 600 more sensitive to changes than they initially let on. 
  
 True, I may try getting a newer pair of socket savers eventually, though I don't have trouble swapping tubes without them and I generally don't swap tubes a lot.


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> So the pair of socket savers I have could possibly be defective? I don't dislike all the changes that it makes. But it does hurt the clarity a bit and there is a bit of a fuzz in the background with them.
> 
> I find my system fairly refined as well, subtle differences like that are noticeable. Though I don't think I have anything as sensitive as the HD 800. My most sensitive headphone to changes is the K712, though I find the HD 650 and HD 600 more sensitive to changes than they initially let on.
> 
> True, I may try getting a newer pair of socket savers eventually, though I don't have trouble swapping tubes without them and I generally don't swap tubes a lot.


 

 Well my 1st pair of those novib did fail (the top plate began to drop and the little gold pins got out of alignment).  Tubemonger has excellent customer service and sent me a free replacement right away.  The second set lasted through hundreds (maybe thousands of rolls), so I can not fault them.  I do like the pin guidance molding on the new ones -highly recommended!


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> Well my 1st pair of those novib did fail (the top plate began to drop and the little gold pins got out of alignment).  Tubemonger has excellent customer service and sent me a free replacement right away.  The send set lasted through hundreds (maybe thousands of rolls), so I can not fault them.  I do like the pin guidance molding on the new ones -highly recommended!


 
 I may try getting some in the future. Not in a hurry though, I like the tubes deeper set as I don't have a lot of room on my desk and don't want to accidentally hit the tubes.
  
 I'm still experimenting with tube rolling. I'm thinking these 63' GE red labels with foil plated o-getters I just got are my best pair yet, so much depth to the sound and the soundstage is wider than all my other tubes. Maybe a bit too lush with the HD 650 but I enjoy it regardless as things became smoother and more transparent and I do like my sound on the lush side. I'm getting that turn your head thinking the sound is really there effect a lot. Hopefully burn-in makes it even better. Still a bit of a novice with tube rolling, but I find it nice coming across tubes that surprise you with their sound, I can see why it's addicting.


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> kman1211 said:
> 
> 
> > So the pair of socket savers I have could possibly be defective? I don't dislike all the changes that it makes. But it does hurt the clarity a bit and there is a bit of a fuzz in the background with them.
> ...


 

 +1 on the new, most current Novib socket savers. There is no audible difference in sound, with them or without them. And I prefer having more grip on the tubes. Makes rolling super-simple.


----------



## DavidA

crixnet said:


> +1 on the new, most current Novib socket savers. There is no audible difference in sound, with them or without them. And I prefer having more grip on the tubes. Makes rolling super-simple.


 
 I think I got these from your recommendation a while back in this thread, got 2 sets since the shipping to Hawaii kills me on some purchases.


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> I may try getting some in the future. Not in a hurry though, I like the tubes deeper set as I don't have a lot of room on my desk and don't want to accidentally hit the tubes.
> 
> I'm still experimenting with tube rolling. I'm thinking these 63' GE red labels with foil plated o-getters I just got are my best pair yet, so much depth to the sound and the soundstage is wider than all my other tubes. Maybe a bit too lush with the HD 650 but I enjoy it regardless as things became smoother and more transparent and I do like my sound on the lush side. I'm getting that turn your head thinking the sound is really there effect a lot. Hopefully burn-in makes it even better. Still a bit of a novice with tube rolling, but I find it nice coming across tubes that surprise you with their sound, I can see why it's addicting.


 
 I had a pair of the rare '59 Sylvania Fat D Getter 7308's that were like that - really lush.  Very Euphonic, if not as detail as some.
  


crixnet said:


> +1 on the new, most current Novib socket savers. There is no audible difference in sound, with them or without them. And I prefer having more grip on the tubes. Makes rolling super-simple.


 
 +1  I like the new ones better as well.  Never did try the Ebay - Chinese made ones.


----------



## DavidA

rb2013 said:


> +1  I like the new ones better as well.  Never did try the Ebay - Chinese made ones.


 
 Just tried some cheap Chinese ones from ebay ($10 for 10) and they made the bass sound muddy and highs weren't crisp.  Tried one with socket saver other without and there was difference between the two.  Tried this with the Novib socket savers and didn't notice a difference between the two, I guess you get what you pay for sometimes.


----------



## rb2013

davida said:


> Just tried some cheap Chinese ones from ebay ($10 for 10) and they made the bass sound muddy and highs weren't crisp.  Tried one with socket saver other without and there was difference between the two.  Tried this with the Novib socket savers and didn't notice a difference between the two, I guess you get what you pay for sometimes.


 

 +1 Good feedback.


----------



## DavidA

picture of cheap socket saver;


----------



## crixnet

davida said:


> picture of cheap socket saver;




I think the technical term for that is "crapola."


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> I think the technical term for that is "crapola."


 

 +1 Lol!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I'm about to order some socket savers- what are good ones-with a minimum Crapola Index? I'd rather not add Crapola to my Schiit-so to speak!
 Eric


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> I'm about to order some socket savers- what are good ones-with a minimum Crapola Index? I'd rather not add Crapola to my Schiit-so to speak!
> Eric


 






Plug Play NOVIB Socket SaverÃ‚Â©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL -( NOT MADE IN CHINA) - NEW VERSION 
 One Piece = $28.00


 
 I like these from Tubemonger


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> exacoustatowner said:
> 
> 
> > I'm about to order some socket savers- what are good ones-with a minimum Crapola Index? I'd rather not add Crapola to my Schiit-so to speak!
> ...


 

 +1 Yep, those are the real McCoy!


----------



## DavidA

rb2013 said:


> Plug Play NOVIB Socket SaverÃ‚Â©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL -( NOT MADE IN CHINA) - NEW VERSION
> One Piece = $28.00
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I use these as well, see picture for how tube looks after socket saver installed;


 The Project Ember doesn't really need it, tube height is about the same as the Lyr2 with socket saver.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

crixnet said:


> +1 Yep, those are the real McCoy!


 
 Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

Nice pair of Amperex OG's up for sale in the Classifieds if anyone is looking for them
http://www.head-fi.org/t/760000/amperex-orange-globe-6dj8-ecc88-matched-pair


----------



## TeddyShot

Is it normal for one of the tubes to be slightly dimmer than the other? They are both Amperex Orange Globes 1969. They're from different batches I believe but both were almost NOS when I purchased. Their connected to my Lyr 2, however im not too familiar with how the Lyr 2 processes sound or how something like this could affect sound. They've been like this since I bought them a month ago.


----------



## Rem0o

teddyshot said:


> Is it normal for one of the tubes to be slightly dimmer than the other? They are both Amperex Orange Globes 1969. They're from different batches I believe but both were almost NOS when I purchased. Their connected to my Lyr 2, however im not too familiar with how the Lyr 2 processes sound or how something like this could affect sound. They've been like this since I bought them a month ago.


 
 As long as they measure the same, it's fine. If they don't, then you will get channel imbalance.


----------



## rb2013

rem0o said:


> As long as they measure the same, it's fine. If they don't, then you will get channel imbalance.


 

 Try switch the tubes R and L and see that changes the glow


----------



## money4me247

I would say first try wearing your headphones R earcup on left ear/L earcup on right ear, and then swap around between normal & opposite a few times and see if you notice anything specific that localizes to opposite sides when you switch. easier way to test for sonic imbalances assuming your earpads are not slanted & fit the same way either way.


----------



## thyman

Just checked the tubes in my Lyr (coincidentally also 1969 Orange Globes). Slight difference in brightness, no difference in sound quality or volume. Tried swapping L and R tubes, no change in sound. You should be fine.


----------



## LastSaiyan

I am also thinking about the lyr2 for my hd700s I am very interested in how they sounded with the amp


----------



## DavidA

lastsaiyan said:


> I am also thinking about the lyr2 for my hd700s I am very interested in how they sounded with the amp


 

 They sound great with the Lyr2, would look for tubes that are on the warm side for use with HD-700 as they are bright headphones.


----------



## LastSaiyan

Thanks I have been debating between the lyr2, asgard2, and the Valhalla 2 but I have been leaning towards the lyr2 now I'm just curious to how my HE400s will sound


----------



## reddog

lastsaiyan said:


> Thanks I have been debating between the lyr2, asgard2, and the Valhalla 2 but I have been leaning towards the lyr2 now I'm just curious to how my HE400s will sound



I have, regrettably have not hear the he-400, but I have heard the lyr2 drive the he-400i to jaw dropping levels of awe. And the he-400i sounded best with my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes.


----------



## DavidA

lastsaiyan said:


> Thanks I have been debating between the lyr2, asgard2, and the Valhalla 2 but I have been leaning towards the lyr2 now I'm just curious to how my HE400s will sound


 
 The HE-400's will work really well with the Lyr2.  Like with the HD-700 you will want to use tubes that aren't bright.


----------



## LastSaiyan

Thanks guys for the responses


----------



## RedBull

lastsaiyan said:


> Thanks I have been debating between the lyr2, asgard2, and the Valhalla 2 but I have been leaning towards the lyr2 now I'm just curious to how my HE400s will sound




Add one more into the game, project Ember and then tell me what is the difference between lyr 2 and ember


----------



## DavidA

lastsaiyan said:


> Thanks I have been debating between the lyr2, asgard2, and the Valhalla 2 but I have been leaning towards the lyr2 now I'm just curious to how my HE400s will sound


 
  


redbull said:


> Add one more into the game, project Ember and then tell me what is the difference between lyr 2 and ember


 

 I posted my impressions of both of these on the project ember thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702826/project-ember-tube-rolling/390#post_11501406 if interested.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks David, just wanted to get more impression from more people


----------



## DavidA

redbull said:


> Thanks David, just wanted to get more impression from more people


 
 gotcha.


----------



## RedBull

Thank reddog, maybe we both are red we understand each other better 

I am in the mood of high powered amp. I was thinking of Rag for awhile but then the people in Rag forum said i am wasting my money if i just gonna use it for SE. Then they pointed me to Lyr2. Logically i also check other amp at the same price range to compare. I landed at Ember, very happy with it, but it doesn't stop me to check at Lyr 2 as i have Vali and i love it very much.
WHAT IF i have Vali bigger brother question, always itching me.

David has helped me a lot to compare the 2 and now i've got more and more piece of the puzzle building more complete comparison of the two.

I use my gear mostly for movies and David has a hint that Lyr2 might be better than Ember for movies. Hmm ... now the search begin again.


----------



## money4me247

lol yes, comparing a hybrid amplifier with expensive tubes against a hybrid amplifier without expensive tubes... oh gee, I do wonder


----------



## RedBull

I prefer to hear from a neutral, non emotional comparison. 

I don't really care topology, if it sounds good, it sounds good.
AND ... to sound sig that i like, rather then what 'technically' better


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> lol yes, comparing a hybrid amplifier with expensive tubes against a hybrid amplifier without expensive tubes... oh gee, I do wonder :rolleyes:



One assumes Rob put good tubes in Ember?


----------



## money4me247

exacoustatowner said:


> One assumes Rob put good tubes in Ember?




lol one wld assume, but the post didnt sound like any direct comparisons were done and if it was his friend's gear, unlikely they had the same tubes. i personally never take anecdotal stories of how the gear someone owns is infinitely better than smtg else unless a direct comparison is done with the strengths/flaws of both items are highlighted. in my experience, the differences between well-recommended gear is usually more akin to different flavors that may be better suited for certain preferences.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> lol one wld assume, but the post didnt sound like any direct comparisons were done and if it was his friend's gear, unlikely they had the same tubes. i personally never take anecdotal stories of how the gear someone owns is infinitely better than smtg else unless a direct comparison is done with the strengths/flaws of both items are highlighted. in my experience, the differences between well-recommended gear is usually more akin to different flavors that may be better suited for certain preferences.



I generally agree with that! So far his tube listening reviews have matched my personal experience- in some cases with the same individual tubes used in the shoot out. 
I also consider the headphone used as a critical factor. I'm using HE-560's which thrive on the power of the Lyr


----------



## DavidA

money4me247 said:


> lol one wld assume, but the post didnt sound like any direct comparisons were done and if it was his friend's gear, unlikely they had the same tubes. i personally never take anecdotal stories of how the gear someone owns is infinitely better than smtg else unless a direct comparison is done with the strengths/flaws of both items are highlighted. in my experience, the differences between well-recommended gear is usually more akin to different flavors that may be better suited for certain preferences.


 

 well put, if it sounds good to me that's really all that matters, not my place to say what is good bad or other wise.


----------



## RedBull

Yeah moneyme. That's what i was looking for, difference in sound flavor than good or bad.

I don't know why some people like to defend their gear like their girlfriend.


----------



## David Aldrich

Guys, this is an appreciation/deprecation and impressions thread for Lyr 2. Not an 'other product bashing' thread.
  
 Haven't you guys read http://schiit.com/about/principles?


----------



## reddog

Same here I have a pair of HE1000's coming too. I will not purchase, I already have a pair of MrSpeakers ETHER's coming as well as a Yggdrasil ( when ever it is for sale).


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> Same here I have a pair of HE1000's coming too. I will not purchase, I already have a pair of MrSpeakers ETHER's coming as well as a Yggdrasil ( when ever it is for sale).


 
  
 wow reddog, that's some nice and serious upgrades.
 when did you run off and graduate to Summit Fi on us?


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> wow reddog, that's some nice and serious upgrades.
> when did you run off and graduate to Summit Fi on us?



Lol. I have no life right now, so I just save up lol. Although at times, I go crazy with cabin fever, the the headphone calm the savage beast within


----------



## czy6412

Has anyone tried lyr2 with TH900?


----------



## reddog

True I will enjoy the HE1000 and hopefully I will not be beguiled by them. If that happens, my wallet may never speak to me again.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> True I will enjoy the HE1000 and hopefully I will not be beguiled by them. If that happens, my wallet may never speak to me again.


 

 That one will leave a mark!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

My 1 month Lyr Anniversary! Tried it with Vokshod Silver and Grey Reflektors, and early 60's Siemens Cca. Love it!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

exacoustatowner said:


> My 1 month Lyr Anniversary! Tried it with Vokshod Silver and Grey Reflektors, and early 60's Siemens Cca. Love it!




You have exploited the Lyr more than me, and I have owned it for almost two years! Such a great amp.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> You have exploited the Lyr more than me, and I have owned it for almost two years! Such a great amp.



Hi Liu
It is!!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

It is absolutely beautiful for highly dynamic, acoustic recordings.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> It is absolutely beautiful for highly dynamic, acoustic recordings.



It is! I'm listening to Tierney Sutton Dancing in the Dark. Piano, upright bass, drums, vocals. I listen to lots of classical as well. Mostly Rachmaninov and Mahler this week.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

exacoustatowner said:


> It is! I'm listening to Tierney Sutton Dancing in the Dark. Piano, upright bass, drums, vocals. I listen to lots of classical as well. Mostly Rachmaninov and Mahler this week.




Nice. I hate Mahler lol. I dont see why people like him. I love Debussy!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> Nice. I hate Mahler lol. I dont see why people like him. I love Debussy!



Well! I don't hate Claude- so that's not fair!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

exacoustatowner said:


> Well! I don't hate Claude- so that's not fair!




Mahler seems to be too cliche to me. He sounds like every adventure movie soundtrack. /yawn. Maybe Im listening to the wrong recordings.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> Mahler seems to be too cliche to me. He sounds like every adventure movie soundtrack. /yawn. Maybe Im listening to the wrong recordings.



Hah hah! Given that he died in 1911, I'd say adventure movie music may sound like Mahler. I'm off to sleep. Tomorrow I'll suggest some listening


----------



## crixnet

exacoustatowner said:


> liu junyuan said:
> 
> 
> > Mahler seems to be too cliche to me. He sounds like every adventure movie soundtrack. /yawn. Maybe Im listening to the wrong recordings.
> ...


 

 Mahler was a truly great composer. His works deserve extended, repeated listening to fully appreciate.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

crixnet said:


> Mahler was a truly great composer. His works deserve extended, repeated listening to fully appreciate.




I understand. My mind is open. Hitherto, I do not like his music at all. It is my least favorite of all major classical composers. I probably need some guidance here.


----------



## Boogirl

liu junyuan said:


> Mahler seems to be too cliche to me. He sounds like every adventure movie soundtrack. /yawn. Maybe Im listening to the wrong recordings.


 

 I love Mahler's music although I only know well his 2nd, 4th, 5th and 9th (Das Lied Van de Erde).  For recordings, I recommend those conducted by Bruno Walter who is my favourite conductor of Mahler.  However, since this is an audiophile level discussion thread you may prefer more modern recordings by Lenard Bernstein (who is also a much loved conducted of Mahler) because the Bruno Walter ones are quite old recordings therefore may not resonate well with a Lyr2 (just a guess, since I don't actually own a lyr yet)


----------



## money4me247

boogirl said:


> I love Mahler's music although I only know well his 2nd, 4th, 5th and 9th (Das Lied Van de Erde).  For recordings, I recommend those conducted by Bruno Walter who is my favourite conductor of Mahler.  However, since this is an audiophile level discussion thread you may prefer more modern recordings by Lenard Bernstein (who is also a much loved conducted of Mahler) because the Bruno Walter ones are quite old recordings therefore may not resonate well with a Lyr2 (just a guess, since I don't actually own a lyr yet)


 
 I checked out those artists via Spotify and they are quite nice. Thanks. Walter's recording are noticeably not as well-mastered on Spotify. Sometimes the volume is too low and you can hear the noise floor when you raise it to appropriate listening levels. Also, a bit of intermittent distortion/noise that can be picked up. This would be a source issue rather than a Lyr 2 or headphones issue. Will be a headphone issue if you can't pick up the noise/distortion (means the sound signature of the headphones is not accurate and the coloration covers much the lower level sounds). Mahler works totally fine so far. (edit: and I do personally prefer his work heh)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

boogirl said:


> I love Mahler's music although I only know well his 2nd, 4th, 5th and 9th (Das Lied Van de Erde).  For recordings, I recommend those conducted by Bruno Walter who is my favourite conductor of Mahler.  However, since this is an audiophile level discussion thread you may prefer more modern recordings by Lenard Bernstein (who is also a much loved conducted of Mahler) because the Bruno Walter ones are quite old recordings therefore may not resonate well with a Lyr2 (just a guess, since I don't actually own a lyr yet)


 
 I love all those. My current Favorites are by Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony. My most recent purchase was Mahler's Eighth Symphony (Symphony of a Thousand). Lots of vocals- one several Grammy Awards including best Classical Recording. Fantastic performance and recording! It also has the Adagio of the unfinished Symphony # 10. Quite powerful in it's own right.
  
 I have all but Symphony 9 by MTT and all sound fantastic!
 . I have 2,3,4, 5, 6 and 9 conducted by Sir Georg Solti, the audio is not a good to my ears although they are good recordings. I  also have # 9 by  Pierre Boulez and Zander-the Zander sort of wanders a bit-but sounds quite good. I think Boulez' is a tighter performance.. If you wonder why 3 versions of 9-it's because I was at a used store-and they were cheap! I like it but 1,2, 8 ,5 and 6 are more to my enjoyment.
 I have #2 by Bernstein. It seems quite BASS heavy to my ears-but is a fine performance!
  
 Das Lied Von Erde is not the same as Symphony # 9 btw. Symphony 9 is not choral whereas "The Song of the Earth" is. I assume a typo was made? However It WAS next after Symphony 8-some people think Mahler did not call it Symphony 9 because he felt that 10 symphony's was a composers limit.
 I have most of them by Solti. Great performances-I heard him conduct the 5th several years ago. I also heard MTT conduct the 5th. Fantastic. I also have Ricardo Muti's Symphony #1 (my introduction to Mahler-and very sweet!)
 MTT's are definitely audiophile grade! All of mine are on hybrid SACD's. 
 I've not heard Bruno Walter although he knew Mahler-and conducted the posthumous debut of Symphony #9 in 1911 or 1912. Side not Mahler conducted Rachmaninov (noff) Piano Concerto #3 with Rachamaninov at the piano- Rachmaninov was highly impressed with Mahler's conducting.
 I'll be picking up a recording of Das Lied and 9 by MTT in a month or so when I next attend the Symphony at Davies Symphony Hall is San Francisco, CA.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

This is showing me I know very little about Mahler. Okay, I will give these a try. I do like the 4th; I should have said that. 

To bring this back on topic, Ill listen to Mahler out of my highly dynamic, acoustic-friendly Lyr


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> This is showing me I know very little about Mahler. Okay, I will give these a try. I do like the 4th; I should have said that.
> 
> To bring this back on topic, Ill listen to Mahler out of my highly dynamic, acoustic-friendly Lyr



Ha ha! Hi Liu. I am currently doing that with some early 60's Siemens Cca's!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

You people have way more tubes than me. I have like three pairs for two years. Oh well...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liu junyuan said:


> You people have way more tubes than me. I have like three pairs for two years. Oh well...



I may have gone overboard in my first month!
I'd never planned on any tubes. Amazon may have done me a favor by sending the Lyr by mistake. I tried some NOS tubes from Rb2013's and was hooked!


----------



## Boogirl

exacoustatowner said:


> I love all those. My current Favorites are by Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony. My most recent purchase was Mahler's Eighth Symphony (Symphony of a Thousand). Lots of vocals- one several Grammy Awards including best Classical Recording. Fantastic performance and recording! It also has the Adagio of the unfinished Symphony # 10. Quite powerful in it's own right.
> 
> I have all but Symphony 9 by MTT and all sound fantastic!
> . I have 2,3,4, 5, 6 and 9 conducted by Sir Georg Solti, the audio is not a good to my ears although they are good recordings. I  also have # 9 by  Pierre Boulez and Zander-the Zander sort of wanders a bit-but sounds quite good. I think Boulez' is a tighter performance.. If you wonder why 3 versions of 9-it's because I was at a used store-and they were cheap! I like it but 1,2, 8 ,5 and 6 are more to my enjoyment.
> ...


 
 Cool
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I love to see another so enthusiastic for Mahler's Music.  My introduction to Mahler was his 4th Symphony conducted by Franz Wesler-Most and London Philharmonic, which is really sweet to me. 
 I really look forward sometime to hearing how Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony conduct Mahler since you say it is audiophile quality - Maybe I should purchase the Lyr2 first and then listen to it


----------



## money4me247

btw @Boogirl, would love to hear your thoughts of the lyr 2 vs your current Audio GD stuff too. Heard great things about AudioGD amplifiers in terms of performancerice, but haven't seen many direct comparisons of them against other gear. cheers!


----------



## Boogirl

money4me247 said:


> btw @Boogirl, would love to hear your thoughts of the lyr 2 vs your current Audio GD stuff too. Heard great things about AudioGD amplifiers in terms of performancerice, but haven't seen many direct comparisons of them against other gear. cheers!


 
 I'm no expert, but I'd love to try and make comparison between the two amps once I get hold of the Lyr2, although I will say in advance that I am expecting (hopefully not naively) the Lyr 2 to be a significant upgrade over the Audio GD, even with the stock tubes. Thats not to say I don't also think the Audio GD is a good dac/amp. I have both the NFB 15 and the NFB 11 because l like them so much.


----------



## RedBull

money4me247 said:


> btw @Boogirl
> , would love to hear your thoughts of the lyr 2 vs your current Audio GD stuff too. Heard great things about AudioGD amplifiers in terms of performancerice, but haven't seen many direct comparisons of them against other gear. cheers!




+1 i love audio gd dacs, would like to hear more about the amp signature compared to lyr 2 in terms of bass impact, mids detail, treble detail and smoothness, soundstage width and depth, if possible


----------



## Boogirl

redbull said:


> +1 i love audio gd dacs, would like to hear more about the amp signature compared to lyr 2 in terms of bass impact, mids detail, treble detail and smoothness, soundstage width and depth, if possible


 
 Ok, look forward posting my impressions


----------



## RedBull

Thank you


----------



## rawrster

exacoustatowner said:


> I may have gone overboard in my first month!
> I'd never planned on any tubes. Amazon may have done me a favor by sending the Lyr by mistake. I tried some NOS tubes from Rb2013's and was hooked!




Sounds like their mistake was the demise of your wallet


----------



## Matro5

rawrster said:


> Sounds like their mistake was the demise of your wallet


 
  
 Knowing Amazon it's more likely they've been consolidating all of the best NOS tubes across the globe and this "mistake" was completely intentional.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rawrster said:


> Sounds like their mistake was the demise of your wallet


 
  HAHA! Yes, If you add the $358 I spent on what turned out to be a Lyr with the tubes I've bought you already match the price of a new Mjolnir. And I'm pretty sure there WILL be more. A fairly expensive "discount". 




 But it sounds sooooo good!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> Knowing Amazon it's more likely they've been consolidating all of the best NOS tubes across the globe and this "mistake" was completely intentional.


 
 Hmmnnnnnn!!!


----------



## Boogirl

exacoustatowner said:


> It is! I'm listening to Tierney Sutton Dancing in the Dark. Piano, upright bass, drums, vocals. I listen to lots of classical as well. Mostly Rachmaninov and Mahler this week.


 
 I was wondering what you tubes you use to listen to Classical with? I would love to be able to get some recommendations as to what tubes I could get before I purchase my own Lyr 2!


----------



## reddog

boogirl said:


> I was wondering what you tubes you use to listen to Classical with? I would love to be able to get some recommendations as to what tubes I could get before I purchase my own Lyr 2!



Good question, normally I would recommend you contact Bob @rb2013, and get some NOS vokshods. The best tubes , for classical, that I use in my Lyr2 , are my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes . Those tubes can be extremely expensive, so I also use Telefunken TK E88CC tubes. The current production Telefunken TK Black Diamonds, after 200 hour burn time, can sound every nice with good classical and jazz. I use the Telefunken TK for everyday listening of jazz and classical. I use my NOS Telefunken tubes for special occasions. And if you can get NOS tubes, go for it, they are magical. The current production tubes like Genalex Gold Lions and Telefunken TK are very nice but are blown away by NOS tubes. I hope to get some more NOS tubes sometime soon. I say get them now, before its to late.


----------



## David Aldrich

My will is weak, you guys are making me want to buy a Lyr 2 and grab some fanky swanky tubes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

boogirl said:


> I was wondering what you tubes you use to listen to Classical with? I would love to be able to get some recommendations as to what tubes I could get before I purchase my own Lyr 2!


 
 Hi Boogirl
 My favorite (currently) are 1974 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Post Getters and Siemens "Early 60's" Cca Grey Shields I bought from Rb2013


----------



## Boogirl

>


 


reddog said:


> Good question, normally I would recommend you contact Bob @rb2013, and get some NOS vokshods. The best tubes , for classical, that I use in my Lyr2 , are my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes . Those tubes can be extremely expensive, so I also use Telefunken TK E88CC tubes. The current production Telefunken TK Black Diamonds, after 200 hour burn time, can sound every nice with good classical and jazz. I use the Telefunken TK for everyday listening of jazz and classical. I use my NOS Telefunken tubes for special occasions. And if you can get NOS tubes, go for it, they are magical. The current production tubes like Genalex Gold Lions and Telefunken TK are very nice but are blown away by NOS tubes. I hope to get some more NOS tubes sometime soon. I say get them now, before its to late.


 
  
  


exacoustatowner said:


> Hi Boogirl
> My favorite (currently) are 1974 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Post Getters and Siemens "Early 60's" Cca Grey Shields I bought from Rb2013


 
  
 Thanks guys. In your opinion, what is it about those tubes in particular that you think works so well with Classical?


----------



## reddog

boogirl said:


> Thanks guys. In your opinion, what is it about those tubes in particular that you think works so well with Classical?



The Telefunken TK add just a touch to the bass, without bleeding into the mids. The mids become very detailed, yet remain smooth, almost lush. The highs are crisp, very revealing without any sibilance. And when you combine the textured bass and detailed lush mids, with the revealing highs, you have a very holographic soundstage. And this SOUNDSTAGE is great for classical and jazz.
Hope that helps you out.
Andrew Reddog Jones


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> The Telefunken TK add just a touch to the bass, without bleeding into the mids. The mids become very detailed, yet remain smooth, almost lush. The highs are crisp, very revealing without any sibilance. And when you combine the textured bass and detailed lush mids, with the revealing highs, you have a very holographic soundstage. And this SOUNDSTAGE is great for classical and jazz.
> Hope that helps you out.
> Andrew Reddog Jones


 
  I think Andrew Reddog Jones nailed it.
 I was listening to my favorite recording of Mahler's Symphony 8 last night and the details and separation of the vocals and instruments were terrific!


----------



## almoskosz

I will buy my first amp, which preferably will be a lyr 2 and i am now reading about tubes all day long, useful thread!


----------



## Boogirl

reddog said:


> The Telefunken TK add just a touch to the bass, without bleeding into the mids. The mids become very detailed, yet remain smooth, almost lush. The highs are crisp, very revealing without any sibilance. And when you combine the textured bass and detailed lush mids, with the revealing highs, you have a very holographic soundstage. And this SOUNDSTAGE is great for classical and jazz.
> Hope that helps you out.
> Andrew Reddog Jones


 
  
  


exacoustatowner said:


> I think Andrew Reddog Jones nailed it.
> I was listening to my favorite recording of Mahler's Symphony 8 last night and the details and separation of the vocals and instruments were terrific!


 
 Thank you both. That's really helpful!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

boogirl said:


> Thank you both. That's really helpful!



You are welcome!


----------



## reddog

boogirl said:


> Thank you both. That's really helpful!


no problem, please have a great day.


----------



## DavidA

You may also want to get some socket savers, for me it made the tubes much easier to remove and replace. Don't get the cheap Chinese one's, tried them and there was some noise and lost details.  The best ones I found are from Tubemonger:
http://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> You may also want to get some socket savers, for me it made the tubes much easier to remove and replace. Don't get the cheap Chinese one's, tried them and there was some noise and lost details.  The best ones I found are from Tubemonger:
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm



Hi David
What is the big plastic thing sticking out? I am imagining the pins plugging directly into the socket in the Lyr. Also why does it refer to disassembly and voiding the warranty? I guess what I an asking is that the right product for the Lyr?


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> Hi David
> What is the big plastic thing sticking out? I am imagining the pins plugging directly into the socket in the Lyr. Also why does it refer to disassembly and voiding the warranty? I guess what I an asking is that the right product for the Lyr?


 

 Those are three different types, the one you want is the second one, which is out off stock, bummer, sorry.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Thanks David


----------



## playmeoasis

Hello fellow Lyr 2 owners,
  
 I picked up mine today to join the club.
 I am pairing it with my recently acquired HE-560 and man is it such a godly pairing. 
 Even with the stock tubes and minimal burn-in time, I'm quite digging the sound.
 The fact that it can only get better with better tubes just excites me beyond belief.
  
 I listen to almost everything except classical, but more classic rock than the other genres.
 Could you guys recommend me a tube for me?
  
 Amperex Bungle Boys seem to be one of the favorites among the Lyr 2 community but they are PRICEY.
 This is debatable but I think changing the tubes can only give ~10% of improvement (which is still substantial).
 But I am not sure if I'm ready to sink hundreds of $$ for the 10% yet. 
 So, if you could recommend something a bit more affordable for a poor college student 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Anyways, happy to be hop on the Lyr 2 hype train and rock on!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

playmeoasis said:


> Hello fellow Lyr 2 owners,
> 
> I picked up mine today to join the club.
> I am pairing it with my recently acquired HE-560 and man is it such a godly pairing.
> ...



Welcome! I' love my HE-560's!
10%? Id say more than that. But then I listen to Classical and Jazz more than classic rock. The stock RCA's are not bad.
What I hear with some of those expensive tubes is more detail and the sense of a large hall. As a "poor College student" I might suggest NOT going down the rabbit hole of tube rolling. There are modern tubes some may suggest. I've not tried them having started my "rolling" with some vintage tubes.
I'm afraid I've gone down the rabbit hole and through the looking glass


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> Those are three different types, the one you want is the second one, which is out off stock, bummer, sorry.



Got it! Novib. From EBAY


----------



## playmeoasis

exacoustatowner said:


> Welcome! I' love my HE-560's!
> 10%? Id say more than that. But then I listen to Classical and Jazz more than classic rock. The stock RCA's are not bad.
> What I hear with some of those expensive tubes is more detail and the sense of a large hall. As a "poor College student" I might suggest NOT going down the rabbit hole of tube rolling. There are modern tubes some may suggest. I've not tried them having started my "rolling" with some vintage tubes.
> I'm afraid I've gone down the rabbit hole and through the looking glass


 
  
 I, too, love my 560s. They are such great all-arounders. 
 Turns out that I am more impatient than I thought.
 I found some Voskhod pair from 80's on ebay for cheap with free shipping.
 So I just pulled the trigger.
 Maybe, this is why I'm a forever poor college kid. 
 I am terrible at saving and assessing my financial situations 
 But as you said, I will probably stay away from browsing tubes for a while until I have more disposable income haha.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

playmeoasis said:


> I, too, love my 560s. They are such great all-arounders.
> Turns out that I am more impatient than I thought.
> I found some Voskhod pair from 80's on ebay for cheap with free shipping.
> So I just pulled the trigger.
> ...



 I'm curious as to how the 80's Vokshods sound. I've got a couple of Pairs of Reflektors from the mid 70's I quite like.


----------



## playmeoasis

exacoustatowner said:


> I'm curious as to how the 80's Vokshods sound. I've got a couple of Pairs of Reflektors from the mid 70's I quite like.


 
  
 Not many people seem to talk much about tubes from 80's.
 From what I gather, 70's and earlier tubes are highly regarded. 
 That would probably explain why the price of mine was only $30.
  
 Just a general Lyr 2 question:
 This thing seems to get scorching hot.
 I mean like HOT. Even the volume knob feels like a heated pot with boiling water. 
 Is this normal?
 Scared of stacking it on top of BitFrost due to the heat it emits.


----------



## jexby

playmeoasis said:


> Just a general Lyr 2 question:
> This thing seems to get scorching hot.
> I mean like HOT. Even the volume knob feels like a heated pot with boiling water.
> Is this normal?
> Scared of stacking it on top of BitFrost due to the heat it emits.


 
  
 yes, hot is good.  keeps you from holding onto the volume knob constantly and getting blisters.
  
 feel free to stack on top of BiFrost, or Gungnir.  they are huge aluminum heat sinks.
 damage will not occur.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

playmeoasis said:


> Not many people seem to talk much about tubes from 80's.
> From what I gather, 70's and earlier tubes are highly regarded.
> That would probably explain why the price of mine was only $30.
> 
> ...



Odd! Do you have the rubber feet attached so it has space underneath? It needs some ventilation space. Mine gets about body temp warm and that is it. The tubes get hot- the test just warm
It's entirely possible your 80's tubes will sound good!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

jexby said:


> yes, hot is good.  keeps you from holding onto the volume knob constantly and getting blisters.
> 
> feel free to stack on top of BiFrost, or Gungnir.  they are huge aluminum heat sinks.
> damage will not occur.



Hmmm. I can leave my hand on it without discomfort. Very warm yes-burns? Nope. My Lyr gets nearly hot if I run 6N1P tubes which use twice the current (Lyr 2 can't use them).
The aluminum case is the heat sink so it should be free on all sides to allow heat dissipation


----------



## FYL941

Adding some rubber feet to my amp solved the heat issue.


----------



## playmeoasis

I'm just using the rubber feet that came with the unit originally.
 Seems like Lyr 2 runs hotter than its predecessor. 
 Well as long as it doesn't melt itself or blow up =P


----------



## DavidA

playmeoasis said:


> I, too, love my 560s. They are such great all-arounders.
> Turns out that I am more impatient than I thought.
> I found some Voskhod pair from 80's on ebay for cheap with free shipping.
> So I just pulled the trigger.
> ...


 
 This was the second pair of tubes I got for my Lyr2, they are quite good and I think they were $48/pair if I remember correctly.  Can't seem to find them right now, (LOL) to try them again to remember what they sounded like, sorry.  The 3 sets that I'm currently using Siemens CCa's ($180/pair), some 63 Telefunken's ($240/pair) and 62 Amperex Holland A-Frame ($250/pair).  I guess I went way down the rabbit hole and in to loony tunes world, helps to have a rich girlfriend that likes to listen to music also.
 My Lyr2 gets a little hot but it is gently cooled by part of the exhaust from my computer.


----------



## playmeoasis

davida said:


> ...helps to have a rich girlfriend that likes to listen to music also.


 
  
 You win in life brother, you win.


----------



## lobotomist

The better question is whether or not she has an unmarried sister.


----------



## rawrster

My Lyr should be going up for sale soon. No more tubes for me. I just seem to prefer solids state although I knew that before I bought this amp. I should have known better lol.


----------



## DavidA

lobotomist said:


> The better question is whether or not she has an unmarried sister.


 

 Sorry, no sister


----------



## Exacoustatowner

lobotomist said:


> The better question is whether or not she has an unmarried sister.



Hah hah!


----------



## sportteo

hi ,am going to buy a new lyr2 and i'm looking for some nos tubes ....i have to spent about 150 $ for a dissent pare , but if i can't find any nos ([i'm living in Grecee) what is the best buy for new tubes  at the same cost ?-my cans are hifimam he500


----------



## ben_r_

Was there any actual sound changes between the Lyr 1 and 2 or do they sound the same and just had a few new features added to the 2?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

ben_r_ said:


> Was there any actual sound changes between the Lyr 1 and 2 or do they sound the same and just had a few new features added to the 2?



I asked this on different forums. The few answers I got said "same." The Lyr can use at least one tube type the 2 can't. 6N1P that use 600 milliAmps as compared to 300 mAmps 6N23P etc. Lyr runs both types. Lyr2 does not
I've found 6N1P much cheaper than 6N23P types.
The 2 has a gain setting switch-so if you are an earbud fan the 2 is for you
I use Planar Magnetic HP and the Lyr is great!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

X2, the Lyr 2 is supposed to be quieter in both low and hi configurations, but I have not done a head to head comparison. My Lyr 2 does sound awesome in low gain with my Grados and CIEM/IEMs.


----------



## ben_r_

exacoustatowner said:


> I asked this on different forums. The few answers I got said "same." The Lyr can use at least one tube type the 2 can't. 6N1P that use 600 milliAmps as compared to 300 mAmps 6N23P etc. Lyr runs both types. Lyr2 does not
> I've found 6N1P much cheaper than 6N23P types.
> The 2 has a gain setting switch-so if you are an earbud fan the 2 is for you
> I use Planar Magnetic HP and the Lyr is great!


 

 Yea from the research I have been doing it really looks like they just added a couple features that I have no interest in as this amp would be dedicated to my HE-500s. Thats good if they do truly both sound the same as I can save some money buying a used Lyr for much cheaper! Now to try and figure out if the Lyr sounds any better than my Emotiva mini-X A-100 with the HE-500s. Have a feeling that as usual the only way Im going to figure that one is it buy the Lyr and do my own comparisons.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

ben_r_ said:


> Yea from the research I have been doing it really looks like they just added a couple features that I have no interest in as this amp would be dedicated to my HE-500s. Thats good if they do truly both sound the same as I can save some money buying a used Lyr for much cheaper! Now to try and figure out if the Lyr sounds any better than my Emotiva mini-X A-100 with the HE-500s. Have a feeling that as usual the only way Im going to figure that one is it buy the Lyr and do my own comparisons.



Yep! I saved $130 and got a B Stock Lyr. I can't SEE any blemishes!
It does a great job with my HE-560's


----------



## interpolate

I take my hat off to the whoever scripted that webpage for Schiit. It made me chuckle somewhat.


----------



## rawrster

It looks like my run with the Lyr 2 has come to an end. I got my new amp today and the Lyr 2 will be sold. The amp confirmed to me that tube amps are just not for me. I do lose my desktop heater however...


----------



## lukeap69

rawrster said:


> It looks like my run with the Lyr 2 has come to an end. I got my new amp today and the Lyr 2 will be sold. The amp confirmed to me that tube amps are just not for me. I do lose my desktop heater however...


 
 Just before you sell your Lyr 2, can you try to feed it from Taurus preamp? I fed mine with Rok and I'm quite surprised with the difference. Now, this is not a setup that I recommend, I'm just doing it because I have both amps and curiosity hit me...


----------



## rawrster

Actually I packed them up as the amp is sold  That's what I love about schiit stuff. They usually sell fast.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rawrster said:


> It looks like my run with the Lyr 2 has come to an end. I got my new amp today and the Lyr 2 will be sold. The amp confirmed to me that tube amps are just not for me. I do lose my desktop heater however...



Taurus Auralac right? The Lyr really depends on the tubes. What does it do better? What tubes?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> Taurus Auralac right? The Lyr really depends on the tubes. What does it do better? What tubes?




With the right tubes I've heard "holography" I've yet to hear from SS. I'll see what the Ragnarok can do. I've listened to the Luxman 1u? And the Senn H800? The Senn using single ended and balanced cables. None gave me the sense of presence I get with the Lyr and 1957 Amperex PW or Siemens CCa.


----------



## lukeap69

rawrster said:


> Actually I packed them up as the amp is sold
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I see. I actually am enjoying my Lyr 2 with Rok as preamp. It seems to me the 'aggressiveness' in the treble had been smoothen out. The attack and slam that I feel is 'missing' with the Rok, the Lyr 2 delivers. The soundstage though became expansive still is smaller compared to the Rok. It's quite fun A/B ing the 2 amps. I'm having a blast!


----------



## rawrster

exacoustatowner said:


> Taurus Auralac right? The Lyr really depends on the tubes. What does it do better? What tubes?


 
  
 I was going to sell the Lyr 2 regardles since I didn't like it much. It was also never meant to be an end game up but more of an amp until I got something better and previously to purchasing it I already knew tubes were not for me but wanted to give it another try. I also wanted to go balanced and the Lyr 2 is SE only.
  
 Other than the stock tubes I had orange globes, 74 reflektor swgp and siemens a frame e88cc. They are not as good as some other tubes that you may own but it should have given me a good idea of what the amp was capable of. Also, considering the cost of everything with tubes you could get a good SS amp at that cost. 
  
 I haven't had much time to evaluate my Auralic Taurus MK2 amp but this is a different price range. One is slightly below $500 shipped from Schiit and even less used while another is just south of 2k. I understand the appeal of tubes where you can change the sound by changing the tube but that requires a lot of time, patience, trial and error and the possibility of getting burned on ebay. With ss amps I know exactly what I'm getting and it's a take it or leave it. I do however like the tone of the Taurus better. From my understanding the amp should have hours on it already so any chance of burn in (for those that believe in it) should be out the window since it is a display unit. Also I didn't like that on the Lyr 2 I needed the high gain and volume was at 12 o'clock at times. The volume is much lower on the Taurus.


----------



## yc1204

Anyone here tried Lyr2 + TH900 combo? Lyr1 didn't satisfy me at all. Since it drive low impedance headphones not quite well compares with other high impedance phones. 
  
 However from most reviewer's feedback looks like Lyr2 fixed this problem and now able to drive low imp / high sensitive headphones quite well. As a TH900 user, I had waited to get a decent tube amp for a long time already... 
  
 Please share your impression for me if I missed any feedback from previous page regarding Lyr2 and TH900 combo. (DAC is Invicta Mirus)
  
 Thanks


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rawrster said:


> I was going to sell the Lyr 2 regardles since I didn't like it much. It was also never meant to be an end game up but more of an amp until I got something better and previously to purchasing it I already knew tubes were not for me but wanted to give it another try. I also wanted to go balanced and the Lyr 2 is SE only.
> 
> Other than the stock tubes I had orange globes, 74 reflektor swgp and siemens a frame e88cc. They are not as good as some other tubes that you may own but it should have given me a good idea of what the amp was capable of. Also, considering the cost of everything with tubes you could get a good SS amp at that cost.
> 
> I haven't had much time to evaluate my Auralic Taurus MK2 amp but this is a different price range. One is slightly below $500 shipped from Schiit and even less used while another is just south of 2k. I understand the appeal of tubes where you can change the sound by changing the tube but that requires a lot of time, patience, trial and error and the possibility of getting burned on ebay. With ss amps I know exactly what I'm getting and it's a take it or leave it. I do however like the tone of the Taurus better. From my understanding the amp should have hours on it already so any chance of burn in (for those that believe in it) should be out the window since it is a display unit. Also I didn't like that on the Lyr 2 I needed the high gain and volume was at 12 o'clock at times. The volume is much lower on the Taurus.


 
 Enjoy your Taurus!


----------



## Hypnotics

Just got my Lyr2 and Uber Bifrost last night.  So far I am loving it.  Using stock tubes with socket savers right now, but I have a matched pair of 74 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter on the way.  Am pretty excited.  I would post a pic.... But it wont let me.


----------



## reddog

hypnotics said:


> Just got my Lyr2 and Uber Bifrost last night.  So far am loving it.  Using stock tubes with socket savers right now, but I have some a matched pair of 74 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter on the way.  Am pretty excited.  I would post a pic.... But it wont let me.



Welcome to Club Schiit, I hope your amazing pieces of Schiit put a smile on you face, for a long time to come. I think you need to post a few more posts before the site will allow you to post pictures. I am a slack dog and do not know the exact number of posts you need to post pictures. Please have a great day jamming out. Oh if your looking for good headphones, MrSpeakers is having a sale on his headphones.


----------



## Hypnotics

Thanks,  I am really looking forward to breaking this amp in.  I have a pair of HD 650s and a pair of Audio Technica AD-700s I have been enjoying on the Lyr2 on already.  Ill definitely check out that sale on the Mad Dogs.


----------



## Hypnotics

How high have others been having their Lyr2s volume on when listening to their Senns?   On low gain I have mine about 1-2 o'clock and on high I still have it on about 12.  Seems a bit high to me.  I know they are high impedance cans, I just figured with all that power I wouldn't be able to turn it up near as loud.   Also, has anyone used 74 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts with their Lyr2 and HD650 combo?  If so how do you like it?  They were recommended and bought from Rb2013 so I am sure they will sound great.  Would just like some more impressions.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

hypnotics said:


> How high have others been having their Lyr2s volume on when listening to their Senns?   On low gain I have mine about 1-2 o'clock and on high I still have it on about 12.  Seems a bit high to me.  I know they are high impedance cans, I just figured with all that power I wouldn't be able to turn it up near as loud.   Also, has anyone used 74 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts with their Lyr2 and HD650 combo?  If so how do you like it?  They were recommended and bought from Rb2013 so I am sure they will sound great.  Would just like some more impressions.


 
 I've not got an HD650. Bob has a pair of HD800's so if they sound good with his Lyr and HD800's I would expect the HD650 to give similar results. I've a pair of the 75 Reflektor 6N23P Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts- and they sound good with my HiFiMan HE-560's.
 I think the 74 Reflektor 6N23P Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Posts-sound better in that I found the Grey shields to be a little rolled off in the high frequencies. That said, MY EARS are rolled off at the high end so it might not bother you at all.
 With the Silver shields I am less likely to use any EQ to compensate.
 I expect they will sound better than the stock tubes.


----------



## Hypnotics

Great,  I am really looking forward to getting them.  They should be here any day now.  I think I might run the Lyr2 for a while with the stock tubes to get a base line of what it sounds like, that way when I roll those Reflektors in Ill be able to tell how much better they are compared to stock.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

hypnotics said:


> Great,  I am really looking forward to getting them.  They should be here any day now.  I think I might run the Lyr2 for a while with the stock tubes to get a base line of what it sounds like, that way when I roll those Reflektors in Ill be able to tell how much better they are compared to stock.


 
 " I think I might run the Lyr2 for a while with the stock tubes to get a base line of what it sounds like…." Excellent practice! 
 There is also some time recommended for breaking in the SS Amp. You should also know that many of us feel the sound improves when the Lyr or Lyr2 has been on for at least a few hours. Something to do with the Mosfets needing to be be warmed up and thermally stable for best results.
  
 Not that it does not sound good from the time you turn it on-just that it improves.I notice it most with Classical music.


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> You should also know that many of us feel the sound improves when the Lyr or Lyr2 has been on for at least a few hours. Something to do with the Mosfets needing to be be warmed up and thermally stable for best results.
> 
> Not that it does not sound good from the time you turn it on-just that it improves.I notice it most with Classical music.


 
 Letting it warm up for a few hours in Hawaii is a waste, mine gets hot enough to keep food warm after 10 minutes, always need to turn on the AC when I use it, having the BH Crack next to it doesn't help either.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> Letting it warm up for a few hours in Hawaii is a waste, mine gets hot enough to keep food warm after 10 minutes, always need to turn on the AC when I use it, having the BH Crack next to it doesn't help either.


 
 Lucky DavidA!


----------



## Hypnotics

Just got my 74' Reflecktors SWGP Grey shields in the mail.  Pretty excited to roll them in,  gonna be hard for me to wait and burn the stock tubes in 1st knowing what I have waiting for me.  Lol.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

hypnotics said:


> Just got my 74' Reflecktors SWGP Grey shields in the mail.  Pretty excited to roll them in,  gonna be hard for me to wait and burn the stock tubes in 1st know what I have waiting for me.  Lol.



Patience is not always easily achieved. Are you going for 50, 100, or 200 hours?


----------



## Eric510

hypnotics said:


> Just got my 74' Reflecktors SWGP Grey shields in the mail.  Pretty excited to roll them in,  gonna be hard for me to wait and burn the stock tubes in 1st knowing what I have waiting for me.  Lol.




I was actually chatting with Bob today about his thoughts on these tubes. Thinking about pulling the trigger on them as well. I'm hoping for something a bit warmer then my '68 Telefunken e88cc's.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

eric510 said:


> I was actually chatting with Bob today about his thoughts on these tubes. Thinking about pulling the trigger on them as well. I'm hoping for something a bit warmer then my '68 Telefunken e88cc's.



Bob would know. The 75 Reflektor GS I bought from him are warm


----------



## KeithEmo

A quick thought about tubes..... that may save a few of you a lot of money.
  
 Back when tubes were considered to be "current technology", they were also considered to be a commodity item. In other words, when you bought a tube, you asked for a "12AX7" and the store gave you whichever brand they happened to have. There were a few brands that considered themselves to be "premium brands", but that claim was based on specific parameters like "lower noise" or "better resistance to microphonics". However, by and large, specific brands were _NOT_ considered to "sound better than others" by most people. (A "premium" Telefunken 12AX7 cost about a buck more than a "cheap" RCA one... the price difference was about the same as the difference between Premium and regular gasoline today.... and, like gasoline, in most cases you didn't expect to notice much difference.)
  
 My point here is that there were no such thing as "premium audiophile tubes designed to sound better". While it's obviously true that each manufacturer fabricated their tubes a little differently, the differences in sound were really caused by the interaction between the slight differences in electrical characteristics and the circuitry in the equipment you were using them in. In other words, a "silver wire" or "round getter" tube isn't usually electrically any better than a "black plate" or "square getter" version, and neither owes any difference in frequency response to "how good it is" - it's just a matter of random chance that a certain brand and version of tube happens to sound a certain way in a certain amp. (Manufacturers often claimed that their tubes were lower in noise, just like gasoline companies all claim their gas is "better for your car", but the differences were actually pretty small.)
  
 Now, long after the fact, someone notices that a certain batch of Brand X tubes sound especially the way they prefer with a certain amp and headphones... so now tubes of that particular brand and batch (which exist in limited supply) suddenly become "collectible" and the price goes up... often ridiculously high.
  
 The point I'm trying to make here - which may save you a LOT of money - is this:
  
 For the most part, and excluding some especially poor quality modern tubes which perform below-spec, the differences you hear between tubes are due to how the electrical characteristics of a certain tube interact with the circuitry in a certain piece of equipment. This means that a given specific type of tube that sounds especially good in a certain piece of equipment may _NOT_ sound the same way in a different piece of equipment (since there are a limited number of tube circuits, you _MAY_ find that your amp sounds a lot like some other brand and model with similar tubes - just don't count on it.)
  
 What you need to take away from this is that, for the most part, _THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD OR BAD SOUNDING TUBE_; there is simply a tube that sounds good or bad _IN YOUR PARTICULAR AMP_. And, if you think about this, you'll see how it can make life a lot more fun - and save you a lot of money...... because it means that the $200 Telefunken super-special square purple plate tube that sounds so good in a Brand X amp (which is why they're selling for so much) might not sound very good in yours; and it also means that, in your amp, the RCA tube that goes for $5 on eBay may actually sound _BETTER_. Therefore, unless you know _SPECIFICALLY_ that a certain vintage or brand tube will sound good _WITH YOUR PARTICULAR AMP AND OTHER EQUIPMENT_, you're much better off spending your money on a selection of cheaper tubes to experiment with than on one super-expensive tube that sounded good in some other piece of equipment.
  
 (This also means that a tube vendor who sells you a particular tube because it is known to sound a certain way in the exact brand and model of amp you have may be doing you a service, but the guy who's just trying to sell you "a super premium audiophile tube" because he's claiming it will sound great in anything is probably more interested in your money. Again, I'm not saying that his super-expensive tube won't sound great in your amp; just that it's no more likely to do so than a different, and much cheaper, tube. Now, since there are a limited number of types of tube circuits out there, as you become familiar with your particular equipment, and read what other people experience, you may well find out that tubes usually sound similar in your amp to how they sound in specific other brands and models - because their circuitry is similar... but, until then, don't assume that different tubes will sound similarly good or bad in different equipment.)
  
 The biggest point here is that you don't have to spend a lot of money and buy exotic tubes whose price has gone through the roof because everyone else has "discovered" them (and you may just be disappointed if you do). There are lots of tubes out there that can be had for very _LOW_ prices, and some of them may sound as good as the most expensive tube you can buy_ IN YOUR EQUIPMENT_. (Personally, I would find it a lot more fun to find a "treasure" in a $50 box of tubes from eBay than to buy a really expensive "premium" tube, and then wonder if it was really worth the price.... and, after you find _your_ treasure, you can pass the box on to someone else for $5 less so they can have the fun of hunting for_ their_ treasure.)


----------



## playmeoasis

Great post KeithEmo.
 Now I am somewhat relieved that it's not gonna cost me limbs to tube roll.
 You mentioned that finding the right tubes for the amp you own is the most important thing. 
 That said, what do people recommend me to go with Lyr 2.
 My headphone is HE-560 and I listen to almost everything except classical music.
 But my favourite genre is probably classic rock from 60-80's. 
  
 The stock tubes sound pretty darn good after burn in but if I could make the amp sing better without emptying my wallet, I am down to explore. 
 What I want, with respect to the stock tubes, is more enhanced bass.
 With the stock tubes, the bass is definitely deep and accurate but lacks some punch and quantity (kinda too dry).
 I would like it to have slightly more "boom" but without being bloated (does this even make sense).
 Fairly happy with how mid and treble sound, but that said, I don't want them to suffer for better bass. 
  
 I dug through this thread for a while and many suggest tubes that are easily $200+ a pair.
 And many of those suggestions came from classical music lovers, who probably have quite different sound preference to mine. 
  
 So, shed me some light, fellow classic rock lovers.
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## money4me247

the problem is that even the nice 'budget' tubes stared getting some buzz, so the prices of the tubes are no longer budget. i actually have a bit of a sneaking suspicion that some tube sellers may hype up certain tubes just to raise prices.

keithemo is completely right. tubes were a cheap disposable item that no one would pay a premium for during its time. It is outdated techology at this point. however, there is a small subset of interested 'audiophile' buyers and the perception of limited stock... you know what people say about audiophiles & their money hahah.

great position to be in if you are a tube seller, poor proposition for hobbyists. also hard to trust tube reviews since conclusions are so vastly different.


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> the problem is that even the nice 'budget' tubes stared getting some buzz, so the prices of the tubes are no longer budget. i actually have a bit of a sneaking suspicion that some tube sellers may hype up certain tubes just to raise prices.
> 
> keithemo is completely right. tubes were a cheap disposable item that no one would pay a premium for during its time. It is outdated techology at this point. however, there is a small subset of interested 'audiophile' buyers and the perception of limited stock... you know what people say about audiophiles & their money hahah.
> 
> great position to be in if you are a tube seller, poor proposition for hobbyists. also hard to trust tube reviews since conclusions are so vastly different.



+1 Well said. The problem you describe is one reason I like current produced tubes. Current produced tube prices have remained pretty stable compared to NOS budget tubes. I need to try more current production tubes, when I have more money.


----------



## KeithEmo

playmeoasis said:


> Great post KeithEmo.
> Now I am somewhat relieved that it's not gonna cost me limbs to tube roll.
> You mentioned that finding the right tubes for the amp you own is the most important thing.
> That said, what do people recommend me to go with Lyr 2.
> ...


 
  
 First, let me admit that I've designed tube equipment, and repaired plenty of it, but I really prefer to _listen_ to solid state equipment - and my current headphone amp is an Asgard. Therefore, I don't have any specific tube recommendations for the Lyr. That said, though, you should bear in mind that the differences between tubes are somewhat subtle... so you may get a little bit more bass, or clearer or "woolier" bass, or a little bit more "depth" or "sparkle" with one choice or another, but there generally isn't going to be as much difference between different tubes in the same amp as, say, the difference between different amps - and some specific circuits tend to amplify the differences that are there while others tend to minimize them. (As with many things audiophile, people do tend to exaggerate the differences between tubes - especially when they're describing ones with impressive price tags on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Also, as for suggestions, as someone else already said, once people "discover" a particular tube that works well and post that recommendation, the price tends to shoot up rather suddenly. Therefore, the trick is to try a bunch of brands and types that other people _haven't_ tried yet, and hope that you get to discover "a new one". The other thing is that, when considering future equipment purchases, it's not a bad idea to look in advance and try to buy an amp that uses a tube number that's still readily available and not too pricey.
  
 For example, if you look at the price of 12AX7 tubes on eBay (12AX7's were one of the most common and most popular tubes ever), you will see a lot of "already discovered" specific brands and variations going for up to several hundred $$$ apiece... yet there's some fellow right now selling 1975 vintage Russian military ones for $17.99 per set of four. Now, maybe they're great, and maybe they're awful, but it wouldn't cost very much to find out (and he had an ended listing for a batch of 50 that _didn't_ sell for a little over $100). There are almost eight _thousand_ listings for 12AX7's on eBay right this minute - so I'm sure there are a few bargains in there somewhere (but it may take a little work to find them). Since there are a limited number of different types of "common" tubes which are used by lots of amps, it seems like it would make sense for a group of tube lovers to get together, make a point of buying the same amp (or different amps that use the same or equivalent tube types), then all chip in and buy a whole bunch of cheap tubes, and spend a few weekends finding out which tubes sound good in whose amps... just a thought.


----------



## Hypnotics

I am planning to give this amp about 100 hours with the stock tubes before I roll in the 74 Reflektors.  I am at about 50 hours right now.  It is a little hard to notice but I think the amp already sounds a little different.


----------



## Hypnotics

I am really excited about them.  He told me that they would be a great match for the Lyr2 and my HD 650s. Give them a go, everyone has been saying that these 70-75 Reflektors are about as good as it gets for the money when it comes to Russian tubes. I couldn't part with the $$ for the 75 HGs.


----------



## Hypnotics

Finally took a pic of this beauty.


----------



## playmeoasis

keithemo said:


> Also, as for suggestions, as someone else already said, once people "discover" a particular tube that works well and post that recommendation, the price tends to shoot up rather suddenly. Therefore, the trick is to try a bunch of brands and types that other people _haven't_ tried yet, and hope that you get to discover "a new one".


 
  
 And so my treasure hunt begins... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was debating which one to get between Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 myself but I liked the sound of Lyr 2 better.
 (Also, the store was at the time did not have any Asgard in stock).
 I do occasionally plug my HE-560's into my stereo amp (Marantz PM6005) and I must agree that I prefer the solid state for certain types of music.
 Which headphones do you own?


----------



## playmeoasis

hypnotics said:


> Finally took a pic of this beauty.


 
  
 I have the exact same Schiit stack as you and it's so dang good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My Lyr 2 stock tubes have about 200 hours on them now and I can definitely tell the difference from the beginning. 
 Subtle, yet quite noticeable (that even make sense? lol).
 The most noticeable difference after the burn in, for me, was the bass on my HE-560.
 It's more refined and accurate now.
 Before the bass notes had less definition, sounded more like a single note at times. 
 Now I can tell every note being plucked on bass guitars.
 Enjoy your stack and let us know when you roll the Reflektors!


----------



## KeithEmo

playmeoasis said:


> And so my treasure hunt begins...
> Just bought a pair of $25 Russian tubes. It had free shipping so I was like, "hell, why not".
> Let's see how that turns out =)
> 
> ...


 
  
 At the moment, my best headphones are a pair of Koss ESP 950 electrostatics (which come with their own amplifier - which accepts line level inputs - so you don't use a separate headphone amplifier with them). I used to have a pair of HiFiMan HE-500's and a Schiit Mjolnir - which I sold. (The HiFiMans sounded just fine on the Asgard as well - and they are quite nice, although I found them a bit laid-back for my tastes.) I used to use headphones a lot when I lived in an apartment; now that I have a house I much prefer speakers. Other than that, I have a pair of Shure's, a pair of low end Sennheisers, three different pairs of mid-to-low-end AKG's, and one or two more that aren't worth mentioning at all.... I would honestly have to say that the ESP 950's are far and away the best sounding headphones I've ever owned. They're actually pretty comfortable, although they're sort of bulky and boxy, but the build quality is _VERY_ plasticky and cheap feeling, especially considering the price, although, since they come with their own amp, you're saving some money there. (The ESP 950's are super-detailed - as you might expect from electrostatics - which also happens to be exactly what I prefer. I find all the AKG's I've ever listened to to be harsh to some degree, and not especially detailed; and I liked the sound of the Lyr with them.)
  
 Since I work at Emotiva, we have lots of headphones laying around, and I can pretty well play with anything "in the collection" (although, at the moment, we don't have any really high-end Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics around). Our preamps, pre/pros, and DACs all have decent headphone sections, and we're just about to introduce a line of USB DACs with headphone outputs, so we have to see how they all work with a lot of different headphones.
  
 The Asgard sounds nice to me with everything I've ever used it with, including the HiFiMans, although obviously some headphones seem to benefit from it more than others. I had a chance to play with a Lyr for a while (the "original" model), but I really thought it sounded very much too "tubey" for my tastes. I like amps to be "analytical" and uncolored, which the Asgard is; in contrast, the Lyr has a very distinctly "tubey" sound to it, which you either like or don't.
  
 People here who haven't heard them both should make no mistake that they sound _VERY_ different; the Asgard is quite neutral and the Lyr decidedly is not. And there is no possible combination of tubes you can roll to make the Lyr sound like the Asgard. (This makes perfect sense since virtually everyone is bound to like one or the other.)


----------



## playmeoasis

keithemo said:


> At the moment, my best headphones are a pair of Koss ESP 950 electrostatics (which come with their own amplifier - which accepts line level inputs - so you don't use a separate headphone amplifier with them). I used to have a pair of HiFiMan HE-500's and a Schiit Mjolnir - which I sold. (The HiFiMans sounded just fine on the Asgard as well - and they are quite nice, although I found them a bit laid-back for my tastes.) I used to use headphones a lot when I lived in an apartment; now that I have a house I much prefer speakers. Other than that, I have a pair of Shure's, a pair of low end Sennheisers, three different pairs of mid-to-low-end AKG's, and one or two more that aren't worth mentioning at all.... I would honestly have to say that the ESP 950's are far and away the best sounding headphones I've ever owned. They're actually pretty comfortable, although they're sort of bulky and boxy, but the build quality is _VERY_ plasticky and cheap feeling, especially considering the price, although, since they come with their own amp, you're saving some money there. (The ESP 950's are super-detailed - as you might expect from electrostatics - which also happens to be exactly what I prefer. I find all the AKG's I've ever listened to to be harsh to some degree, and not especially detailed; and I liked the sound of the Lyr with them.)
> 
> Since I work at Emotiva, we have lots of headphones laying around, and I can pretty well play with anything "in the collection" (although, at the moment, we don't have any really high-end Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics around). Our preamps, pre/pros, and DACs all have decent headphone sections, and we're just about to introduce a line of USB DACs with headphone outputs, so we have to see how they all work with a lot of different headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I don't exactly dislike analytical, neutral sound of many solid state amps.
 In fact, as I mentioned earlier, I prefer it to the tube sound at times.
 But generally, I find I enjoy classic rock recordings better with the "tubey" sound.
 And Lyr 2 is giving me just that.
  
 I went to Vancouver Audio Show couple weeks back and had a chance to listen to some electrostatic headphones and speakers.
 Man, they are SO revealing. 
 I feel like with those, if there was a fly buzzing around in the studio at the time of recording, you would hear it. 
 Had a chance to hear the much praised Stax SR009.
 The sound was unlike anything I have heard before (well I have never heard a pair of $5000 cans before).
 So much detail. So much air and clarity without sounding thin.
 The music really immerse around you. It was a truly euphoric experience.
 It still haunts me but luckily I am not an avid classical fan so I can live without constantly agonizing over an unreachable dream. 
  
 Another exhibitor had a pair of Martin Logan Neolith (MSRP at $100,000 CAD), hooked up with Mark Levison equipments.
 And words can't really describe the beauty of this setup. So I won't even try.
 But it's simply better than anything I've heard. Period.


----------



## KeithEmo

playmeoasis said:


> Yeah I don't exactly dislike analytical, neutral sound of many solid state amps.
> In fact, as I mentioned earlier, I prefer it to the tube sound at times.
> But generally, I find I enjoy classic rock recordings better with the "tubey" sound.
> And Lyr 2 is giving me just that.
> ...


 
  
 I'm not surprised. (And it almost feels like you could tell what kind of fly it was - and whether he's happy that day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Well, if you can get past the not-so-impressive build quality, the Koss ESP 950's go for about $900 US (including the amp), which isn't all that much by modern headphone standards. I think a lot of what you heard has to do with the basic difference between how electrostatics work compared to other types, so you'll get quite a bit of that scary detail even on a "low priced set of electrostatics" like the ESP-950's. It might be worth your while to see if you can find a pair to listen to... (They're the only reasonably priced pair of electrostatics I'm familiar with, but I believe there are one or two others.)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

keithemo said:


> At the moment, my best headphones are a pair of Koss ESP 950 electrostatics (which come with their own amplifier - which accepts line level inputs - so you don't use a separate headphone amplifier with them). I used to have a pair of HiFiMan HE-500's and a Schiit Mjolnir - which I sold. (The HiFiMans sounded just fine on the Asgard as well - and they are quite nice, although I found them a bit laid-back for my tastes.) I used to use headphones a lot when I lived in an apartment; now that I have a house I much prefer speakers. Other than that, I have a pair of Shure's, a pair of low end Sennheisers, three different pairs of mid-to-low-end AKG's, and one or two more that aren't worth mentioning at all.... I would honestly have to say that the ESP 950's are far and away the best sounding headphones I've ever owned. They're actually pretty comfortable, although they're sort of bulky and boxy, but the build quality is _VERY_ plasticky and cheap feeling, especially considering the price, although, since they come with their own amp, you're saving some money there. (The ESP 950's are super-detailed - as you might expect from electrostatics - which also happens to be exactly what I prefer. I find all the AKG's I've ever listened to to be harsh to some degree, and not especially detailed; and I liked the sound of the Lyr with them.)
> 
> Since I work at Emotiva, we have lots of headphones laying around, and I can pretty well play with anything "in the collection" (although, at the moment, we don't have any really high-end Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics around). Our preamps, pre/pros, and DACs all have decent headphone sections, and we're just about to introduce a line of USB DACs with headphone outputs, so we have to see how they all work with a lot of different headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Keith since you are weighing in a lot on the Lyr thread I'm curious since you said the Lyr was "very much too tubey for your tastes- and yet on the Emotiva forum you say the following 
 " Some vendors also go beyond design results and deliberately exaggerate the "tubey-ness" of their products. The Schiit Lyr, and some of the Yaqin triode amps, come to mind." Can you clarify?
 And to avoid confusion about *my point-*your knowledge of Amplifiers is welcome! And it's a WELCOME break from a certain individual who sings the "ALL AMPS are the SAME SONG" ALL the TIME.


----------



## Hypnotics

playmeoasis said:


> I have the exact same Schiit stack as you and it's so dang good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea it is.   It is really growing on me now and with about 55 hours on it I already notice a difference.  My O2/ODAC will probably be up for sale real soon.  LoL. Those Reflektors temp me everyday.


----------



## toolio

hypnotics said:


> Yea it is.   It is really growing on me now and with about 55 hours on it I already notice a difference.  My O2/ODAC will probably be up for sale real soon.  LoL. Those Reflektors temp me everyday.


 
 I have the original Lyr-Bifrost combo and still find my O2-ODAC to be very good, particularly for the money relative to the Schitt gear. I use it for bedroom listening


----------



## Hypnotics

toolio said:


> I have the original Lyr-Bifrost combo and still find my O2-ODAC to be very good, particularly for the money relative to the Schitt gear. I use it for bedroom listening


 

 Yea, the O2 combo is pretty good.  It just sounds so cold and flat after listening to the schiit stack.


----------



## KeithEmo

exacoustatowner said:


> Hi Keith since you are weighing in a lot on the Lyr thread I'm curious since you said the Lyr was "very much too tubey for your tastes- and yet on the Emotiva forum you say the following
> " Some vendors also go beyond design results and deliberately exaggerate the "tubey-ness" of their products. The Schiit Lyr, and some of the Yaqin triode amps, come to mind." Can you clarify?
> And to avoid confusion about *my point-*your knowledge of Amplifiers is welcome! And it's a WELCOME break from a certain individual who sings the "ALL AMPS are the SAME SONG" ALL the TIME.


 
  
 Let's start off with the fact that amplifiers are "simple two-dimensional devices". By that I mean that speakers, for example, have a very complex job. At a live concert you experience a wide variety of sounds, each being generated by a different type of mechanism. Vibrations from a piano string head off at right angles to the string, and bouncing off the cover, while sounds from a horn come out the front in a sort of fan pattern, and sound from a guitar comes partly from strings and partly from a vibrating box with a hole in it. In fact, no speaker has a chance in hell of reproducing all those sounds, each starting at the proper place, and each going in the proper direction. It all ricochets around the room and enters your ears a certain way; which is probably differently than it enters my differently shaped ears. So, in the end, it all becomes a guessing game about which factors there are important, and how we can do the best job of faking them, which may also be different between us, both due to differences in hearing, and due to what we consider important to each of us. In contrast, all an amplifier or recording has to do is to deliver a simple electrical voltage that varies a certain way over time. You really can describe that with a single measurement (and, for stereo, with two measurements). As far as the amplifier is concerned, there is _NO SUCH THING_ as depth, or sound stage, or what have you. If both channels of electrical signal are exactly correct, then the result will be correct (as correct as the original recording is anyway). If two amplifiers have different sound stages, then this _MUST_ be traceable directly back to the fact that the electrical signal they put out is different.
  
 This has interesting implications, the biggest of which is that there is such a thing (at least theoretically) as a "perfect amplifier". And, following this to its logical conclusion, if you had more than one perfect amplifier they would be (and sound) _EXACTLY THE SAME_. Excluding differences in recordings and speakers, if both amplifier deliver the same identical perfect signal, then they will and must sound identical. This means that a perfect solid state amplifier, a perfect tube amplifier, and a perfect magic amplifier that runs on unicorn pee will all sound the same. Period. End. This is pure logic.
  
 Therefore, logic tells us that, when certain amplifiers sound "very different", they must be producing a different electrical output. Now, in the early days of tubes, the goal of high fidelity was to eliminate all that variation and produce that one perfect output. And, if you had asked an early designer of either tube or solid state equipment their goal, they would have told you that both should sound totally clean and uncolored, and so _BOTH SHOULD SOUND THE SAME_. Let me rephrase that: If a tube amp and a solid state amp don't sound identical, then one or the other (or both) is flawed. When tube designs were current technology, the fact that minute differences between different brands, and even different batches, of tubes was quite well known. However, back then, there was no such idea as "tube rolling". In fact, it was the job of the tube designer to design circuits that were "good enough" that _THEY SOUNDED EXACTLY THE SAME REGARDLESS OF WHICH BRAND OF TUBE YOU USED_. The whole point of a good design was that it was immune to those minor and unavoidable variations - which were seen as flaws. (A vintner may see the tiny amounts of chemicals in different wines as significant; to someone who produces distilled water for lab applications they're all just flaws to be eliminated; hi-fi was "distilled water".)
  
 Literally, if I had an amplifier fifty years ago that sounded noticeably different with different brands of tubes, the only question would have been whether the design of the amplifier was so bad that it was unable to compensate for those differences, or if we'd picked a tube type that was so inconsistent and unreliable that a poor tube choice was our mistake. The "obvious" goal was that a good design, with any equivalent "decent quality tube" in it, should sound exactly the same.
  
 The idea that some people seem to have, for example, that "single ended triodes are magically accurate" is just plain silly. I can't rule out the possibility that there is some electrical characteristic of triodes that is magically wonderful, but I can easily prove that the measurable amounts of known audible distortions (like second harmonic) are so high in a single ended triode that, if there was some actual good thing about them, it _WOULD_ be a miracle if it could be heard above all the extra (and easily measurable) coloration and distortion. (While I suppose it's possible that some people somehow fail to be annoyed by 5% THD, but are sensitive to minute amounts of some so-far-unmeasured other type of distortion, I tend to suspect that they simply like the way 5% THD sounds...)
  
 I've heard a few on those Yagin triode amps and, without getting into the endless debate about "whether they sound better", it's pretty obvious that they sound _VERY_ different from a relatively uncolored solid state design (or even a relatively uncolored tube design). You can claim that the engineers at Yaqin, rather than choose parts and circuit designs to minimize the coloration, have instead chosen them to maximize it, or you can just assume they're incompetent, but the fact remains that their products have a _LOT _of coloration. (It is actually somewhat complicated to make the correct design choices to minimize the colorations involved, so it could simply be lack of technical ability, or unwillingness to buy better parts - but I personally suspect it's deliberate.)
  
 Now, in the case of Schiit audio, and the Lyr, the guys (and gals) over at Schiit Audio are quite competent, so I don't for a minute think anything they've done was accidental. They designed the Lyr to sound different from solid state units like the Asgard and the Mjolnir. Furthermore, they haven't done their best to design the Lyr to be immune to the slight variations between tubes. They know that people enjoy tube rolling, so it would be foolish for them to try and make a design that it didn't work with - right? Rather, they've made sure to use a design that _WILL_ sound different when you use it with different tubes, by _NOT_ incorporating circuit and design elements that would tend to render those differences inaudible. (This includes using certain types of circuits, avoiding others, and using certain types of parts in certain locations. Nobody at Schiit Audio would ever say: "We did our best to make the Lyr sound just like the Asgard, and this is the best we could do.") The Lyr uses a MOSFET output stage (solid state); it would be trivial to use one more solid state stage to deliver all the gain they need; instead they've gone to the extra effort to use a tube in that role, and the only legitimate reason for doing so is "because it sounds different" (since the output stage is solid state, they haven't "avoided solid state because there's something bad about it".)
  
 With the current availability of parts, tubes are (at least slightly) more difficult to use than transistors so, to put it bluntly, if a tube amplifier sounded exactly the same as a solid-state equivalent, and nobody could tell them apart, then you'd have to be an idiot to use tubes, since the tube design would cost more to build, cost more to purchase, and be less reliable in the end as well. The _ONLY_ reason people buy tubes is because they _LIKE_ the differences in how they sound. 
  
 To my ears, the Lyr sounds _VERY_ different from solid state units like their Asgard (which, to me, sounds quite similar to other uncolored solid-state equivalent units).
 (I've never measured one, and probably never will; since I'm not trying to replicate the differences I have little motivation to specifically understand what they are.)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

keithemo said:


> Let's start off with the fact that amplifiers are "simple two-dimensional devices". By that I mean that speakers, for example, have a very complex job. At a live concert you experience a wide variety of sounds, each being generated by a different type of mechanism. Vibrations from a piano string head off at right angles to the string, and bouncing off the cover, while sounds from a horn come out the front in a sort of fan pattern, and sound from a guitar comes partly from strings and partly from a vibrating box with a hole in it. In fact, no speaker has a chance in hell of reproducing all those sounds, each starting at the proper place, and each going in the proper direction. It all ricochets around the room and enters your ears a certain way; which is probably differently than it enters my differently shaped ears. So, in the end, it all becomes a guessing game about which factors there are important, and how we can do the best job of faking them, which may also be different between us, both due to differences in hearing, and due to what we consider important to each of us. In contrast, all an amplifier or recording has to do is to deliver a simple electrical voltage that varies a certain way over time. You really can describe that with a single measurement (and, for stereo, with two measurements). As far as the amplifier is concerned, there is _NO SUCH THING_ as depth, or sound stage, or what have you. If both channels of electrical signal are exactly correct, then the result will be correct (as correct as the original recording is anyway). If two amplifiers have different sound stages, then this _MUST_ be traceable directly back to the fact that the electrical signal they put out is different.
> 
> This has interesting implications, the biggest of which is that there is such a thing (at least theoretically) as a "perfect amplifier". And, following this to its logical conclusion, if you had more than one perfect amplifier they would be (and sound) _EXACTLY THE SAME_. Excluding differences in recordings and speakers, if both amplifier deliver the same identical perfect signal, then they will and must sound identical. This means that a perfect solid state amplifier, a perfect tube amplifier, and a perfect magic amplifier that runs on unicorn pee will all sound the same. Period. End. This is pure logic.
> 
> ...



So you say all your Emotiva amps sound the same and likely the same as the Asgard. And Emotiva tube amps sound the same with a new JJ tube as any other tube.


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## KeithEmo

> So you say all your Emotiva amps sound the same and likely the same as the Asgard. And Emotiva tube amps sound the same with a new JJ tube as any other tube.


 
  
 Errrr..... sort of.
  
 At the moment we don't make any separate headphone amps, but several of our DACs and preamps have pretty good headphone amps in them. And, yes, _WITHIN THEIR PERFORMANCE LIMITS_ they do all sound very much the same, and they all sound pretty much like an Asgard. All of our headphone sections run on a +/- 12 V power supply, so I believe the Asgard can deliver more maximum voltage if called upon to do so; the Asgard can also deliver more current than many of our headphone sections, and so more wattage. However, that extra voltage only really matters with very high impedance phones that are also somewhat low in efficiency; and the extra current only matters with ones like low efficiency planars. In simplest terms, the Asgard is a more _POWERFUL_ amplifier than the headphone amps in most of our equipment. So, with the few headphones that need that extra power to reach proper listening levels without distorting, it will sound different. However, within those limits, since both the Asgard and our amps are designed to sound "neutral", and have low output impedances (which prevents them from interacting very much with the headphones you attach to them, they do indeed sound very much the same. (Every design is slightly different, with different power supply and amplifier design specs, which result in different distortion spectra and such, which is why they do sound a tiny bit different - and I'm _NOT_ a firm believer in "all amplifiers sounding _exactly_ the same" - but they will be _VERY_ close.....) Incidentally, in case you were wondering, I currently only own two or three dedicated headphone amps personally - and one of them is an Asgard.
  
 The electrical specifications for each tube number are defined (actually the originating manufacturer sets them), and anybody else making a tube claiming to be a tube - say "an EL34" _- SHOULD_ do their best to meet the specs for that tube type. In reality, since each tube manufacturer physically constructs their tubes a tiny bit differently, there is some variation between manufacturers, and even between batches - and even between individual tubes. Some manufacturers also deliberately "voice" their tubes to sound different (which they can do by deliberately setting certain parameters to _NOT_ match what the standard says they should be). Therefore, while a Shugang EL34 is _SUPPOSED TO BE _electrically the same as a JJ EL34 (otherwise it isn't really an EL34), it is probably slightly different.
  
 In general, tube amplifier design hasn't changed much in about 75 years (other than fancier bias circuits). Our amps use "standard push pull" designs, with moderate feedback, good quality parts, and nothing that I would classify as "unusual". However, the designs we use do expect the tubes _YOU_ use to actually have the electrical characteristics that the standard for their type number says they should. So (and I do apologize if it sounds like I'm hedging), as long as the tubes you use are reasonably close to the spec for the tube type that is called out, I wouldn't expect a major difference in sound. (Our circuitry is designed to be "tolerant" of variations in tubes, and to deliver its specified performance with any tube that meets spec, but designing circuitry to be totally immune to major off-spec variations is very difficult, and would raise the cost too high for our market, so I can't promise that certain tubes, which have electrical characteristics that are very far from the norm, won't sound a little bit different. However, compared to other brands, and especially to amps designed specifically to have an exaggerated sensitivity to tube parameters, I would expect the differences in how our amplifier would sound with different brands of tubes to be relatively small.) 
  
 You should also note that, lately, some of the variation in tube specs involves maximum rated operating voltage, with some brands apparently _NOT_ being rated to operate at the full voltage as spelled out in the type spec. So, if you were to substitute a power tube in one of our amplifiers, you should check very carefully to make sure you aren't trying to use one that isn't rated for the required voltage. (As long as the tube you use is rated for the same, or preferably higher, operating voltage than your amplifier uses, you're fine. However, for example, if you put a tube rated for 800V in an amp that uses 900V, it will have a very much shortened life span, and may simply fail immediately.... which may also damage the amp - and void your warranties.)
  
 You, and a lot of modern audiophiles, need to understand that the whole concept of "tubes having a distinct sound" - as a significant thing -  is a relatively new one. When tubes were current technology, it was intended that the various tube "type numbers" would be interchangeable. While certain manufacturers might have touted their particular tubes as having slightly lower noise, or slightly better bandwidth, or a better life expectancy, tubes were _INTENDED_ to be equal and interchangeable. "Good" circuit designs were designed such that they would work identically with every commonly available brand of tube, and any brand of tube that sounded - or measured - significantly different in too many designs would have been considered to be "wrong" - and would simply be considered to be defective in design or manufacture. If, for example, you wanted to design "a new 12AX7 that sounds quieter", you were expected to give it a new and different designation, which included your new and different electrical parameters. It may have been better than a 12AX7, but, for that very reason, _IT WAS NO LONGER A 12AX7_. The whole current concept of super-expensive "premium" tubes would have been laughed at back then. An RCA 12AX7 cost about $2; a "premium" Telefunken one cost $2.50; Telefunken claimed that their tube would last longer, was more consistent in terms of electrical characteristics, and perhaps was a few percent quieter. Some customers believed the marketing brochures enough to pay the extra $.50 while others didn't. And, if you walked in and asked for "a 12AX7", unless you specified which one you wanted, you got whatever brand they happened to have in stock.
  
 While there were folks who felt that a certain brand of tube sounded better in a particular piece of gear, it was considered to be like cars and gasoline. (You might find that your particular car runs a little better on a particular brand of gas, you might be willing to believe that their formula was a little better for your car than someone else's, and you might even be willing to pay a few cents per gallon extra for that brand, and lots of folks bought $5 a gallon "av-gas" for high performance racing cars, but you would laugh if someone were to suggest that putting "premium $50 a gallon gas" in your Toyota would somehow "transform its performance".)


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## ben_r_

Oh @KeithEmo, I wish you the best of luck fighting the good fight here, but you're preaching logic and reason to an industry that is fueled largely by snake oil, internet reviews of concepts and topics that really cant be described via text and desired perception based on prices paid. You can try all you like, but people here _want_ to believe there is always better audiophile gear out there to upgrade to and that the attainable quality is limited only by their buying power. It's a hell of an industry and while it's still relatively small you should refrain from talking any sense to it and start working on breaking Emotiva into it.


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## money4me247

@KeithEmo, greatly appreciate the information you've been providing. just a shout-out to remind myself to kudos your posting once my rating limit as expired and check out emotiva products in the future. I really like this sort of attitude from manufacturers about the realistic relative differences between amplifiers (which I have found from my personal experience direct testing different components in blinded settings to match your thoughts). thank you again for your contributions!!


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## john57

It seems a bit strange that Keith talks about Emotiva tube designs when Emotiva does not even sell tube equipment at this time.


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## DavidA

@KeithEmo, enjoyed reading your posts.  I think it explains some of the result I hear while changing tubes quite well.


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## KeithEmo

john57 said:


> It seems a bit strange that Keith talks about Emotiva tube designs when Emotiva does not even sell tube equipment at this time.


 
  
 Emotiva actually purchased Carver's Vacuum Tube Amplifier Company last year, with plans to manufacture Bob's designs. It turned out that, due to "irreconcilable differences", that didn't happen... and we decided to develop and produce our own line of tube amps. Our first model, a 300 watt monoblock, will be out later this year (hopefully soon); followed by a preamp. As with Bob's designs, ours will feature legitimate, tried and true designs, that actually work, and deliver good performance and excellent sound - and, of course, due to the colorations introduced by tubes and output transformers, they will sound somewhat different than our (quite neutral sounding) solid state gear.
  
 One thing you should realize, however, is that the main features (and limitations) of tube equipment haven't changed much in fifty years. The single biggest improvement is in terms of bias control; most original designs used simple resistor cathode bias, or at most a simple unregulated bias supply, and regulating the bias supply or individually adjusting tubes was a true rarity. Other than that, if you were to take a current tube amplifier, whether one of ours or one of someone else's, back to 1960 in a time machine, any competent repair tech in 1960 would recognize what all the important parts were, and would in fact recognize most of the design itself - since they're still based on the designs in popular use back then.
  
 However, personally, I have a lot of experience with both repairing and designing tube equipment. I went to high school in the middle 1970's, when mainstream tube audio equipment had pretty well been replaced by solid state, and tube equipment could be had for next to nothing at garage sales and flea markets. (I also had an electronics shop teacher in high school who still loved tubes - and thought solid state equipment would never replace them.) I used to buy, play with, repair, and re-sell tube equipment back then.... and I owned close to 100 different assorted pieces of tube gear over the next several years. Therefore, I think I can safely claim to know a lot about how tube equipment works and is designed, and how it should be designed... from back when it was simply "current slightly out-of-date technology" rather than "a niche audiophile product". I also associated with plenty of people who actually remembered when tubes were simply "electronics", so I know exactly how they felt about the technology - which is why I sometimes find it very humorous how differently people today _IMAGINE_ things were back then. Sadly, a lot of the old "knowledge" seems to have been forgotten, much of it being replaced with a complicated mix of legitimate new and interesting technology, folklore, and snake oil in assorted flavors and species.


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## neogeosnk

Anyone come accross this issue?  I'm running some Hifiman 560's, Lyr 2/bifrost uber/wyrd.  My 560s sound anemic when running on low gain.  Not bad but sound under powered.  I switch it over to High Gain (turn down volume to match low volume of low gain) and my ears hurt even at lower volumes (say 2).  Has anyone else experienced this?  It feels almost like a subsonic distortion of some kind.  I emailed schiit support and they've never heard of this.  I agree it's illogical because gain is gain.  Should I just send it in to schiit to see if they can fix it?
  
 Thanks!


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## kman1211

neogeosnk said:


> Anyone come accross this issue?  I'm running some Hifiman 560's, Lyr 2/bifrost uber/wyrd.  My 560s sound anemic when running on low gain.  Not bad but sound under powered.  I switch it over to High Gain (turn down volume to match low volume of low gain) and my ears hurt even at lower volumes (say 2).  Has anyone else experienced this?  It feels almost like a subsonic distortion of some kind.  I emailed schiit support and they've never heard of this.  I agree it's illogical because gain is gain.  Should I just send it in to schiit to see if they can fix it?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 I have similar issues with the HD 600 and HD 650 on the Lyr 2, but I realized it's that the headphones seem to produce too much sound pressure for my ears as I get the same issue on other systems and I don't have this issue with my K712. Same thing happens to me with almost all closed headphones. It's probably the combination of more power from the high gain setting and the HE-560 may be putting out more sound pressure than you are comfortable with. Maybe try adjusting the HE-560 so it's a little looser on the head with less clamp, it helped a bit with my Senns.


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## neogeosnk

The hifiman 560's are open back like the 600's though.  I will try your suggestion though, sounds like that might be the issue.


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## kman1211

neogeosnk said:


> The hifiman 560's are open back like the 600's though.  I will try your suggestion though, sounds like that might be the issue.


 
 True, but the HD 600 and HD 650's cause me slightly more issues sound pressure wise than the sealed DT 150. Open backs aren't always free of this, especially if the clamp is tight and the air between the ear and driver doesn't disperse very well. I realized I have an odd tendency to wear my Senn HD 600 and HD 650 a bit too tight on my head.


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## OverlordRush

New to the all these audio things... I want to get a nice tube amp. Is it better to get the original Lyr for cheaper if i have a Magni 2 for my IEMs, or just spend $100 more to get the Lyr 2? And any other difference between the 2 versions besides what is said on the Schiit website?


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## DavidA

overlordrush said:


> New to the all these audio things... I want to get a nice tube amp. Is it better to get the original Lyr for cheaper if i have a Magni 2 for my IEMs, or just spend $100 more to get the Lyr 2? And any other difference between the 2 versions besides what is said on the Schiit website?


 
 The major difference is the number of different tubes the original Lyr can used, its about double the last time I looked at the Lyr/Lyr2 tube rolling guide.


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## NCSUZoSo

I am posting to see if anyone wants to make an offer on this extremely rare tube before I list it on Ebay.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759230/the-1963-amperex-holland-7308-bugle-boy-the-tube-that-doesnt-exist
  
 I was able to show the batch code (VR8) and show the Amperex/Bugle Boy logos on the reverse side of the Tektronix sticker.  AudioTubes.com has gone through the thread and I have an email saying this is the first Holland 7308 Bugle Boy they have ever seen.
  
 Go to the thread to see more details such as the test results from a Triplett 3444.  The tube has no more than 100 hours on it (and I would guess more like 50-75) since I purchased it because this is one of many tubes I use in my Aune T1.  I would much rather sell this to someone that is going to use it and enjoy it than some collector who will put it in a case or whatever.
  
 The main reason I am selling it is because I am going back to college to finish my last two years in Electrical Engineering, so I need all the spare cash I can get.  Having multiple super high end tubes is definitely not a necessity, haha.  This is by far the best tube I have, *clearly* beating out a 1968 Siemens CCa and a Valvo for the prize.  I actually feel bad having a tube like this in an Aune T1, haha.  If you'd like my impressions on the tube please PM me and I'll get back to you.
  
 Thanks guys!


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## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> The major difference is the number of different tubes the original Lyr can used, its about double the last time I looked at the Lyr/Lyr2 tube rolling guide.





overlordrush said:


> New to the all these audio things... I want to get a nice tube amp. Is it better to get the original Lyr for cheaper if i have a Magni 2 for my IEMs, or just spend $100 more to get the Lyr 2? And any other difference between the 2 versions besides what is said on the Schiit website?





overlordrush said:


> New to the all these audio things... I want to get a nice tube amp. Is it better to get the original Lyr for cheaper if i have a Magni 2 for my IEMs, or just spend $100 more to get the Lyr 2? And any other difference between the 2 versions besides what is said on the Schiit website?



I've looked and looked. No difference other than being better for IEM. I've a few pairs of th nice 6N1P tubes that were not expensive. Can't use those on the Lyr2.
I saved over $100 getting the Lyr earlier this year.


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## mrip541

Anyone experience a particular amp aggravating tinnitus? The last 2 times I've used my Lyr it has aggravated mine. Both times it hadn't been bothering me for at least a week and within the first 60sec of listening through my Lyr it was back with a vengeance. Still bothering me days later.


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## neogeosnk

Yeup that's pretty much what happens to me when I use my hifiman 560s.  I can't use them with high gain and with low gain they sound muddy.  It last about 2 days for me though not a week.


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## Exacoustatowner

mrip541 said:


> Anyone experience a particular amp aggravating tinnitus? The last 2 times I've used my Lyr it has aggravated mine. Both times it hadn't been bothering me for at least a week and within the first 60sec of listening through my Lyr it was back with a vengeance. Still bothering me days later.



Check your SPL. Likely you are listening at too high a volume for too much time. No amp has magic properties causing your ears to ring. I would be concerned about hearing damage- use caution. If you have an iphone you can buy a db meter app.
Put the mic in the ear cup and seal it tightly to mimic the seal over your ear.


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## JimmyJohns99

mrip541 said:


> Anyone experience a particular amp aggravating tinnitus? The last 2 times I've used my Lyr it has aggravated mine. Both times it hadn't been bothering me for at least a week and within the first 60sec of listening through my Lyr it was back with a vengeance. Still bothering me days later.


 


neogeosnk said:


> Yeup that's pretty much what happens to me when I use my hifiman 560s.  I can't use them with high gain and with low gain they sound muddy.  It last about 2 days for me though not a week.


 

 The 560s gave my left ear a terrible ache everytime i listed for 10 minutes. Returned them in a week. My left ear has had problems over the years and is super sensitive to treble. Have the lcd-x's now which some call bright for audeze and i only have problems at really loud volumes or certain recordings. i had to eq the **** out of the he-560s to tone down treble and still had the issue. Dont have to for lcd-x. When you say tinnitus, do u mean ringing or an ear ache?


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## lukeap69

My Lyr 2 had been resurrected with Audio-gd DAC-19. Even pairing with HD-800 is now very good to my ears. I didn't realise that a DAC will have a significant impact to the overall SQ. To those having problem with bright cans, try a R2R DAC and maybe a NOS one.


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## money4me247

jimmyjohns99 said:


> The 560s gave my left ear a terrible ache everytime i listed for 10 minutes. Returned them in a week. My left ear has had problems over the years and is super sensitive to treble. Have the lcd-x's now which some call bright for audeze and i only have problems at really loud volumes or certain recordings. i had to eq the **** out of the he-560s to tone down treble and still had the issue. Dont have to for lcd-x. When you say tinnitus, do u mean ringing or an ear ache?




ringing can often be a sign of listening at too loud volumes. please be careful! can get hearing loss


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## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> ringing can often be a sign of listening at too loud volumes. please be careful! can get hearing loss



High volumes and hi treble frequencies. Your ears are telling you to turn it Down. Plenty of info online on safe levels and listening times.
Ignore at your peril. Buy a Db meter app for your phone. Seal the mic against your ear cup


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## mrip541

jimmyjohns99 said:


> The 560s gave my left ear a terrible ache everytime i listed for 10 minutes. Returned them in a week. My left ear has had problems over the years and is super sensitive to treble. Have the lcd-x's now which some call bright for audeze and i only have problems at really loud volumes or certain recordings. i had to eq the **** out of the he-560s to tone down treble and still had the issue. Dont have to for lcd-x. When you say tinnitus, do u mean ringing or an ear ache?


 
  
 I had some strange event where I was eating lunch and all of a sudden it felt like the air in the room super compressed instantly. I expected to turn around and see the building behind me had collapsed or something. Lost all hearing for a few sec then just heard a loud rushing sound for a few more. Like a grenade went off next to me. Ringing started the next day and it's been with me for about 6 weeks. I went to the audiologist, ENT and general physician. My hearing is fine with a slight dip around 10k. I'm told I should be thankful as some people who experience what I did sometimes go completely deaf instantly. Something to do with my eustachian tubes. Anyway, the ringing had faded to the point of not really bothering me, but both times I've used my amp since then the ringing has come back with a vengeance within 60sec. Turned it off right away. Listening on my office rig, from my phone or using my wireless Sens doesn't affect it at all. As far as I can tell volume isn't the issue, but who knows. I'm generally not one to crank the volume. Might be related, but my custom iems have started making my right ear ache, but the ringing is much louder in my left ear. It's infuriating.


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## Wildcatsare1

Wow, have never heard of that before, what was/is the diagnosis?


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## money4me247

@mrip541, not sure how long you've been dealing with that, but you should strongly consider giving your ears an extended break from all headphone listening.
  
 sounds like they might be saying ETD which means that your ears will be pretty sensitive to pressure changes. allergy season/cold/flu/scuba diving/airplane flying can exacerbate the problem.
  
 please be careful and follow your doctor's advice as you can get permanent hearing loss. hope you feel better soon!


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## mrip541

money4me247 said:


> @mrip541, not sure how long you've been dealing with that, but you should strongly consider giving your ears an extended break from all headphone listening.
> 
> sounds like they might be saying ETD which means that your ears will be pretty sensitive to pressure changes. allergy season/cold/flu/scuba diving/airplane flying can exacerbate the problem.
> 
> please be careful and follow your doctor's advice as you can get permanent hearing loss. hope you feel better soon!


 
  
 Hey thanks. Extended break for sure. I even put all my gear back in the boxes. I'm told I have another 4-5 months before we're into permanent tinnitus territory.


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## neogeosnk

So, after many hours trying to figure out if it was the lyr 2 causing the Hifiman 560 issue, I found a fix that works well for me.  I did talk to Schiit tech support and they were happy to service my lyr if It was causing the issue.  The Fix:  First, got a pair of focus-a pads, yes $40 bucks but I was on the verge of selling them because they were so painful so why not.  This definetly helped tame some of the pain.. but, couldnt listen for over 20 minutes.  Got really frustrated, decieded to listen to my alpha dogs.  I'm selling my alpha dogs and was doing one last listen before boxing them up.  I came accross the doggy treats that come with the alpha dogs.  "What let me try them on the 560s"....... Wow!  Finally get to hear what everyone is talking about.  They really came alive without any pain even after extended listening! 
  
 TLDR: Had ear pain with lyr 2 & Hifiman 560.  Used Focus-a pads and Mr. Speaker Doggy treats to fix them.


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## Eric510

mrip541 said:


> Hey thanks. Extended break for sure. I even put all my gear back in the boxes. I'm told I have another 4-5 months before we're into permanent tinnitus territory.



This is all pretty horrifying. :/
Not to go too far off topic here but, it's worth discussing... Do any of you see an ENT doc regularly? i mean, is this sorta thing preventable with regular checkups and hearing tests? I'm 34 years old, I spent most of my 20s going to loud indie rock shows... I've slowed down considerably in my "old age" but now I've got this damned (I say that jokingly headphone hobbie. I've got planer magnetics, CIEMs, plain ol' dynamics... I listen to them all, well amped, and at decent volumes... 

I really hope your ears bounce back, dude. Scary stuff.


----------



## mrip541

Im told this had nothing to do with my listening habits. Just a random virus probably related to a cold i had at the time. I supposedly messed up my inner ear pressure while chewing with blocked tubes. Didnt have any visible ear infection, wax, etc. Just totally random. Cant remember the exact words but that's basically it.




eric510 said:


> This is all pretty horrifying. :/
> Not to go too far off topic here but, it's worth discussing... Do any of you see an ENT doc regularly? i mean, is this sorta thing preventable with regular checkups and hearing tests? I'm 34 years old, I spent most of my 20s going to loud indie rock shows... I've slowed down considerably in my "old age" but now I've got this damned (I say that jokingly headphone hobbie. I've got planer magnetics, CIEMs, plain ol' dynamics... I listen to them all, well amped, and at decent volumes...
> 
> I really hope your ears bounce back, dude. Scary stuff.


----------



## Eric510

mrip541 said:


> Im told this had nothing to do with my listening habits. Just a random virus probably related to a cold i had at the time. I supposedly messed up my inner ear pressure while chewing with blocked tubes. Didnt have any visible ear infection, wax, etc. Just totally random. Cant remember the exact words but that's basically it.



That's even scarier!!


----------



## money4me247

This is OT I know, but for people interested in learning more about eustachian tube dysfunction, here is a friendly link that is quite easy to understand: http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/blocked-eustachian-tubes-topic-overview


----------



## DreamKing

exacoustatowner said:


> High volumes and hi treble frequencies. Your ears are telling you to turn it Down. Plenty of info online on safe levels and listening times.
> Ignore at your peril. Buy a Db meter app for your phone. Seal the mic against your ear cup


 
  
 meter apps are limited because mics found in phones or conventional microphones for computers are limited typically to a 90dB SPL peak. A 130 dB SPL meter would work better.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

dreamking said:


> meter apps are limited because mics found in phones or conventional microphones for computers are limited typically to a 90dB SPL peak. A 130 dB SPL meter would work better.



Agree on the meter. But I can see 110 db peaks (before I turn it down) on my iPhone 5S
Better to have some than no meter


----------



## Sentinel92

Im currently interested in both the Lyr 2 and Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Anyone here has tried either with Audeze cans?


----------



## Gibsonmac

Is there a consensus on the best can pairing for the lyr 2?


----------



## money4me247

gibsonmac said:


> Is there a consensus on the best can pairing for the lyr 2?


 
 Lyr 2 is very versatile and pretty clean. really works with a wide variety of headphones how it has different impedance settings. Haven't found anything that pairs poorly with it unless I dislike the headphone's sound signature in the first place.
  
 just pick the headphones based on your sound signature preferences & the lyr 2 will work very well with it!


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> Lyr 2 is very versatile and pretty clean. really works with a wide variety of headphones how it has different impedance settings. Haven't found anything that pairs poorly with it unless I dislike the headphone's sound signature in the first place.
> 
> just pick the headphones based on your sound signature preferences & the lyr 2 will work very well with it!



+1 well said sir. My lyr 2 drives all of my cans exceedingly well. I have used the lyr 2 to drive the following cans: the Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm headphone, Alpha Primes, HE1K's and Audio Technica m50x . The lyr2 ran all these headphones quite well.


----------



## DavidA

money4me247 said:


> Lyr 2 is very versatile and pretty clean. really works with a wide variety of headphones how it has different impedance settings. Haven't found anything that pairs poorly with it unless I dislike the headphone's sound signature in the first place.
> 
> just pick the headphones based on your sound signature preferences & the lyr 2 will work very well with it!


 
 Is the different impedance settings a new feature?  I know that you can adjust the input gain but if you can adjust the impedance it would really make the Lyr2 a flexible amp.


----------



## money4me247

davida said:


> Is the different impedance settings a new feature?  I know that you can adjust the input gain but if you can adjust the impedance it would really make the Lyr2 a flexible amp.


 
 oops I think I misspoke. i meant input gain. may have been thinkin about the ember with the impedance feature =S
  
 thxs for the catch.


----------



## DavidA

money4me247 said:


> oops I think I misspoke. i meant input gain. may have been thinkin about the ember with the impedance feature =S
> 
> thxs for the catch.


 
 Damn, I was thinking that having adjustable impedance would be a killer feature for the Lyr2, l like the feature on the Ember so was wishing


----------



## Gibsonmac

How does the lyr2 do with hd800's, is it similar to the valhalla2?


----------



## DavidA

gibsonmac said:


> How does the lyr2 do with hd800's, is it similar to the valhalla2?


 
 Its okay, but not something that I would consider after building my BH Crack.  When I first got the HD-800 I had the Lyr2 and Project Ember and neither of these made the HD-800 sound like a TOTL headphone.  Just my opinion, YMMV


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> Its okay, but not something that I would consider after building my BH Crack.  When I first got the HD-800 I had the Lyr2 and Project Ember and neither of these made the HD-800 sound like a TOTL headphone.  Just my opinion, YMMV


 
 Hey David,
 It really depends on the listener- I'm glad you enjoy the Bottlehead crack with your HD-800. I'm listening to the HE-560 (HiFiMan).
 My Mileage varies quite a bit depending on the tubes I use with the Lyr. I've mentioned before that it was shipped in error by Amazon when I ordered a Mjolnir. After hearing it with some Lovely Russian 6N23P's Reflektor SWGP 74's I bought from Rb2013- (which lead to a flurry of tube buying) it went from very good to superb with MMV!  My Ragnarok is on the way so I expect to be doing a lot of Non Scientific A/B switching. 
 That said, I've not tried my HiFiman HE-560 with a Tube amp-only several SS and the Lyr Hybrid.
 I ended up favoring Rb2013's favorite HG's, Siemens Cca 1966, some Amperex 7308's and a few others. The stock RCA's are quite good-but the Lyr really sings with some of the other tubes frequently mentioned.


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> Hey David,
> It really depends on the listener- I'm glad you enjoy the Bottlehead crack with your HD-800. I'm listening to the HE-560 (HiFiMan).
> My Mileage varies quite a bit depending on the tubes I use with the Lyr. I've mentioned before that it was shipped in error by Amazon when I ordered a Mjolnir. After hearing it with some Lovely Russian 6N23P's Reflektor SWGP 74's I bought from Rb2013- (which lead to a flurry of tube buying) it went from very good to superb with MMV!  My Ragnarok is on the way so I expect to be doing a lot of Non Scientific A/B switching.
> That said, I've not tried my HiFiman HE-560 with a Tube amp-only several SS and the Lyr Hybrid.
> I ended up favoring Rb2013's favorite HG's, Siemens Cca 1966, some Amperex 7308's and a few others. The stock RCA's are quite good-but the Lyr really sings with some of the other tubes frequently mentioned.


 
 Hear ya, I've also found that the tubes you use in the Lyr2 have a impact to how it sounds with various headphones.  I've gone down the rabbit hole with some tubes for the Lyr2, very similar to what you have listed.  The HE-560 sounds best with the Lyr2 but once in a while I like the slightly different tone of the Ember, and again depending on the tube I use.
 As for the BH Crack its really a specialist amp designed for high impedance ones like the HD-800/650, DT--990 250ohm.  Most of my other headphones sound like poopoo on the BH Crack.


----------



## Monahans67

Thinking of getting the bifrost uber along with the Lyr2.  What is your opinion of this combination for the new pair of Audio Technica W5000 I just bought.  I can get both of these for the price of the Audio Technica HA5000 amp made for the W5000 and I have read where it is recommended to pair this phone with tubes.  Never having a tube amp before I need some opinions. Luckily my hearing is still pretty good for being 67. LOL  Thanks guys.


----------



## playmeoasis

monahans67 said:


> Thinking of getting the bifrost uber along with the Lyr2.  What is your opinion of this combination for the new pair of Audio Technica W5000 I just bought.  I can get both of these for the price of the Audio Technica HA5000 amp made for the W5000 and I have read where it is recommended to pair this phone with tubes.  Never having a tube amp before I need some opinions. Luckily my hearing is still pretty good for being 67. LOL  Thanks guys.




I have the combo paired with HE560. Let me just say that while bitfrost might enhance the sq, it won't make a night-and-day difference like an amp would. And even if you do notice a fair bit of improvement, you would more than likely get the same result using modi 2 for like 1/2 the price. (a friend has modi 2 uber and I'm speaking from my own comparison experience). If I were you, unless you need the versatility of bitfrost, I'd just get modi and use the rest of the money to invest in some nice NOS tubes for Lyr. Just my 2 cent.


----------



## M-83

Hi guys
  
 I've just ordered lyr 2 with bifrost uber with usb 
  
 will this be suitable for connecting the two in a stack? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-1aTTack-AVK-132-020-Q-Audio-Video-Cable-2-RCA-Male-to-2-RCA-Male-0-2-m-/291360409592?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43d66f07f8
  
 Thanks


----------



## DavidA

playmeoasis said:


> I have the combo paired with HE560. Let me just say that while bitfrost might enhance the sq, it won't make a night-and-day difference like an amp would. And even if you do notice a fair bit of improvement, you would more than likely get the same result using modi 2 for like 1/2 the price. (a friend has modi 2 uber and I'm speaking from my own comparison experience). If I were you, unless you need the versatility of bitfrost, I'd just get modi and use the rest of the money to invest in some nice NOS tubes for Lyr. Just my 2 cent.


 
 Agree with you, I have both a Bifrost and Modi2 uber and there is very little difference.  I've since gotten a Teac UD-301 which sounds more alive than the Bifrost and has the bonus of having a decent built in headphone amp.


----------



## Monahans67

playmeoasis said:


> I have the combo paired with HE560. Let me just say that while bitfrost might enhance the sq, it won't make a night-and-day difference like an amp would. And even if you do notice a fair bit of improvement, you would more than likely get the same result using modi 2 for like 1/2 the price. (a friend has modi 2 uber and I'm speaking from my own comparison experience). If I were you, unless you need the versatility of bitfrost, I'd just get modi and use the rest of the money to invest in some nice NOS tubes for Lyr. Just my 2 cent.


 
 Thank you so much for the info.  There is so much to consider and I guess that is what makes this fun.  LOL  Any idea on what the W5000 would sound like paired to the Lyr2


----------



## playmeoasis

monahans67 said:


> Thank you so much for the info.  There is so much to consider and I guess that is what makes this fun.  LOL  Any idea on what the W5000 would sound like paired to the Lyr2


 
  
 Never had a chance to listen to W5000 but I will say that Lyr 2 made my HE-560 a little warmer from how it sounded with SS amps, which was exactly what I wanted. The tubes seem to add just a touch of warmth. That said, Lyr 2 deviates from "neutral" sound, IMO. It might sound too "tubey" for some people.


----------



## Gibsonmac

Okay, so I just set up my lyr2... Project debut carbon>Schiit Mani phono pre>Lyr2>he560... It feels like the lyr is just struggling to power the cans, even in high gain mode. I mean it's not like it's barely putting out sound or anything, but it tops out at relaxed/quiet listening volume. Is it just a matter of needing a break-in? Or are the tubes junk?


----------



## money4me247

gibsonmac said:


> Okay, so I just set up my lyr2... Project debut carbon>Schiit Mani phono pre>Lyr2>he560... It feels like the lyr is just struggling to power the cans, even in high gain mode. I mean it's not like it's barely putting out sound or anything, but it tops out at relaxed/quite listening volume. Is it just a matter of needing a break-in? Or are the tubes junk?




I dont think its an issue of power considering the lyr 2 ouputs 4 watts at 50ohms for the he560. what setup are you comparing to?


----------



## Gibsonmac

Well my portable onkyo DAC-HA200 with an iPhone seems to drive my he560's harder...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibsonmac said:


> Well my portable onkyo DAC-HA200 with an iPhone seems to drive my he560's harder...



I think you must have som setting needing adjustment. My Lyr can drive my HE-560 to ear damaging levels. Are your headphones plugged in all the way?


----------



## DavidA

gibsonmac said:


> Okay, so I just set up my lyr2... Project debut carbon>Schiit Mani phono pre>Lyr2>he560... It feels like the lyr is just struggling to power the cans, even in high gain mode. I mean it's not like it's barely putting out sound or anything, but it tops out at relaxed/quiet listening volume. Is it just a matter of needing a break-in? Or are the tubes junk?


 
 I think there is something that is not right with your chain, I'm able to get great sound with the lineout from Fiio X3 to Lyr2 to HE-560.  Don't think its the tubes, even the stock ones are not bad.  You might want to contact Schiit and ask about your Lyr2 and Mani to make sure all are working correctly.
 Good Luck


----------



## Gibsonmac

davida said:


> I think there is something that is not right with your chain, I'm able to get great sound with the lineout from Fiio X3 to Lyr2 to HE-560.  Don't think its the tubes, even the stock ones are not bad.  You might want to contact Schiit and ask about your Lyr2 and Mani to make sure all are working correctly.
> Good Luck


Yeah I needed to increase the gain on the mani, solved my volume problems.


----------



## DavidA

gibsonmac said:


> Yeah I needed to increase the gain on the mani, solved my volume problems.


 

 good to hear it wasn't something major.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

As a new Lyr 2 owner, I am also new to tube amps. 
  
 There is something amazingly comforting in turning on my Lyr 2 and watching the orange glow gently come to life.  More than anything, it reminds me of building a fire in the fireplace, again giving a warm comforting glow to my surroundings.
  
 Oh, and it sounds GREAT... so great that, well, I bought the Lyr 2 in hopes of it being the best amp for the newly-developed HiFiMAN HE1000.  When I got it, I tested it against the HiFiMAN EF-6 amp on the HE1000s and.,... well... it wasn't.  The EF-6 did better.
  
 I got a return authorization from Schiit, but then remembered that one of the reasons I got it was that it was said to be great with Grado headphones.  It would be a shame to return it without even trying it for the second reason that I got it.
  
 I hooked it up to my top-of -the-line Grado PS1000s, and I immediately loved it!  This is despite the fact that I have the HPA1 solid state amp of Joseph Grado Signature Products, the amp that J. Grado himself asked Sidney Stockton Smith of Marantz to design for his headphones.
  
 So I marched myself to my computer, wrote a note to the kind Schiit employee that had sent me the return authorization, and said not only was I keeping it, I was also buying the Schiit Bifrost Uber USB2 DAC to keep it company, just for my Grados.
  
 And I did.


----------



## Hardwired

My new Lyr2 came in today, as did the Telefunken tubes from Upscale Audio. I've never had a tube amp but this thread and my respect for Schiit as a company decided me to give it a try, and I might as well get some great tubes since I would end up there eventually and just getting them now would actually save me money not spent on cheaper tubes. I rehearsed that one in case I needed it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was installing the tubes and hooking things up when my wife came down to chat. She was looking at her phone when I got everything hooked up and turned on, and she was sitting in my chair which is in the perfect listening spot for my speakers, so I selected a song I knew she liked (Lee Ritenour - Township for those who care) from the playlist, started it up and adjusted the volume to a respectable level.
  
 It took maybe 10 seconds for my wife to look up from her phone (and she's no audiophile) and listen for a few seconds. Her first comment was "The separation!" I was standing behind her and was blown away by the same thing. The instruments were very clearly in their own spots on stage and the sound was wiiiiiide and glorious. Next up was The Beatles - Penny Lane. Her comment? "This even makes the Beatles sound good!" Ok, so she's not perfect but she's a keeper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I clicked on Maroon 5 - Hands All Over and I thought she was going to dance out of the chair.
  
 This was fresh out of the box, not warmed up, unused tubes, and it sounded so good.
  
 We listened for a few more songs before going upstairs for dinner. I left the amp on for the tubes to stay warm.
  
 After dinner I brought my Alpha Primes down with me and I can't listen to songs fast enough. At the moment Heart - Barracuda is rocking my ears off. Infected Mushroom, B.B. King, Filter, Dream Theater, everything I've tried is so HUGE across the sound stage. I was using an Asgard 2 which is a nice amp, but the Lyr and the Telefunkens are freaking awesome. I stupidly left my HE-560s at work but I'll bring them home tomorrow for a listen.

 This is what this hobby is all about. Wow, Infected Mushroom - Legend of the Black Shawarma sounds good. I can't listen fast enough. Now Eric Clapton - Blues Before Sunrise. I'll be here awhile.
  
 Many thanks to everyone who has left their impressions and advice here about this amp and various tubes for it. I'm sure enjoying them. Holy crap, INXS sounds fantastic!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

hardwired said:


> My new Lyr2 came in today, as did the Telefunken tubes from Upscale Audio. I've never had a tube amp but this thread and my respect for Schiit as a company decided me to give it a try, and I might as well get some great tubes since I would end up there eventually and just getting them now would actually save me money not spent on cheaper tubes. I rehearsed that one in case I needed it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Glad you are enjoying it! It is really nice with the HE-560's! Are you using it as a pre-amp then?


----------



## Hardwired

Yes, both as a pre-amp and headphone amp. Each way sounds great.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

hardwired said:


> Yes, both as a pre-amp and headphone amp. Each way sounds great.


 
 I agree!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Problem... I am not sure that I hear ANY difference between playing a digital lossless stream from my FiiO X3 into my new Schiit BiFrost Uber USB2 and then to my new Schiit Lyr 2, or playing just directly from the FiiO X3 straight into my headphones, which are the Grado PS1000.
  
 I've used the first 12 sec or so from the start of "You're Going To Miss Me" by the Band of Heathens (from there _One Foot In The Ether _album), which is one of four test songs I use over and over again in my 20+ three-way comparisons of headphones and amps.
  
 Maybe different music, or different headphones, but my point is... the difference to me between through the Bifrost and Lyr 2 vs going straight out of the X3 is minimal, at best.  If I do hear a difference, it might be in the sound of the first cymbal at the very start, and maybe a slightly "airier" spatial distribution of instruments.
  
 But if I didn't know whether I switched between the two modes (with vs. without the Schiit boxes), I rather doubt I could tell any difference.
  
 Yike!


----------



## Gibsonmac

exacoustatowner said:


> Glad you are enjoying it! It is really nice with the HE-560's! Are you using it as a pre-amp then?


Really? I was pretty underwhelmed with the lyr and he560's... But I was using stock tubes.


----------



## DavidA

ruthieandjohn said:


> Problem... I am not sure that I hear ANY difference between playing a digital lossless stream from my FiiO X3 into my new Schiit BiFrost Uber USB2 and then to my new Schiit Lyr 2, or playing just directly from the FiiO X3 straight into my headphones, which are the Grado PS1000.
> 
> I've used the first 12 sec or so from the start of "You're Going To Miss Me" by the Band of Heathens (from there _One Foot In The Ether _album), which is one of four test songs I use over and over again in my 20+ three-way comparisons of headphones and amps.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't have a PS1000 but if its easy to drive then the difference between the X3 direct and going thru the Bifrost/Lyr2 will not make much of a difference.  Try a planar like a HE-560 or LCD series headphone or something with a high impedance like a HD-6XX or Beyerdynamic, this is where the power of the Lyr2 will make a difference, and as always, YMMV


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibsonmac said:


> Really? I was pretty underwhelmed with the lyr and he560's... But I was using stock tubes.


 
 I don't use stock tubes.


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> I don't use stock tubes.


 

 What tubes do you use?  Any favorites? Any to stay away from?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> What tubes do you use?  Any favorites? Any to stay away from?


 
 Siemens CCA  1962/63. 1966, Reflektor SWPG Silver Shields 1975, 1974, Amperex 7308's, etc. All great! I jumped in with the advice of Billerb1, Guidostrunk and Rb2013-so I avoided repeating mistakes made early on. They all elevate the Lyr from OK to GREAT! With the stock RCA tubes it's good-but I moved on quickly to tubes suggested by the above people. Most that have tried newly made tubes are not terribly happy with them, that could change-I've not tried them myself.  If you have the Lyr you have more options for tube types than the Lyr2.
  
  I would do some reading on the thread-and be aware there are earlier threads on the Lyr as well. Again, my tube choices have been based on advice from the folk listed. They also say that the tubes improve after 100-200 hours_I've no way to test that as audio memory is short!


----------



## reddog

davida said:


> What tubes do you use?  Any favorites? Any to stay away from?



The best tube, I have used are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum. These tubes make the lyr2 sing like a muse of fire, and make the Alpha Primes and the HE1K sound great. But because the NOS Telefunken tubes cost so much, I also use Gold Lions, in the lyr2 to drive my headphones, and I like how they sound. Another option is to get some vokshods NOS tubes. These tubes sound wonderful and are cheaper 
than Gold Lions. Look up Bob, he should help you. I would know his email address but my kindle crashed and I lost two years of data.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> The best tube, I have used are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum. These tubes make the lyr2 sing like a muse of fire, and make the Alpha Primes and the HE1K sound great. But because the NOS Telefunken tubes cost so much, I also use Gold Lions, in the lyr2 to drive my headphones, and I like how they sound. Another option is to get some vokshods NOS tubes. These tubes sound wonderful and are cheaper
> than Gold Lions. Look up Bob, he should help you. I would know his email address but my kindle crashed and I lost two years of data.


 
 I've not yet tried them but I want to! Send Rb2013 a PM- he still checks in from time to time...


----------



## M-83

reddog said:


> The best tube, I have used are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum. These tubes make the lyr2 sing like a muse of fire, and make the Alpha Primes and the HE1K sound great. But because the NOS Telefunken tubes cost so much, I also use Gold Lions, in the lyr2 to drive my headphones, and I like how they sound. Another option is to get some vokshods NOS tubes. These tubes sound wonderful and are cheaper
> than Gold Lions. Look up Bob, he should help you. I would know his email address but my kindle crashed and I lost two years of data.


 

 Do the Telefunken really make that big a difference? I'm hoping to purchase some end of the month, as long as I get at the right price. I've had an hour of listening time with my lyr2 and bifrost uber with my alpha primes.


----------



## reddog

m-83 said:


> Do the Telefunken really make that big a difference? I'm hoping to purchase some end of the month, as long as I get at the right price. I've had an hour of listening time with my lyr2 and bifrost uber with my alpha primes.



The nos Telefunken tubes sound very nice but I was pretty satisfied with the current production tubes like the gold lions and the current produced Telefunken TK's after 200 hour burn in, really made my Alpha Primes sing. I would compare the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes to a bottle of 60 year old single scotch. And the current production tubes to 10 or 12 year old single-malt scotch, or just a good blend.


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> I've not yet tried them but I want to! Send Rb2013 a PM- he still checks in from time to time...



+1 Rob rb2013 is a very nice guy who is very knowledgeable, he should be able to help you find the vokshods.


----------



## DavidA

reddog said:


> The nos Telefunken tubes sound very nice but I was pretty satisfied with the current production tubes like the gold lions and the current produced Telefunken TK's after 200 hour burn in, really made my Alpha Primes sing. I would compare the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes to a bottle of 60 year old single scotch. And the current production tubes to 10 or 12 year old single-malt scotch, or just a good blend.


 

 Like the scotch analogy, I have 2 pairs of Telefunken's CCa which are great but for the price I'm liking the 74' Reflectors and some Siemens Lorenz for less than half the price.  Also tried some current production tubes (Gold Lion, Electro Harmonix) and they are pretty good so I'll pass on buying more NOS tubes unless the price is really good.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

ruthieandjohn said:


> Problem... I am not sure that I hear ANY difference between playing a digital lossless stream from my FiiO X3 into my new Schiit BiFrost Uber USB2 and then to my new Schiit Lyr 2, or playing just directly from the FiiO X3 straight into my headphones, which are the Grado PS1000.


 
 I am pleased to report that even though I cannot hear a difference with and without the Schiit Lyr2 + Bifrost Uber USB2 placed between my Grado PS1000 headphones and my FiiO X3 digital source, my son CAN, and even in a blind test. 
  
 (Of course, then his much more practical wife asked me, "Well, why do you have it (the Schiit stuff) if you can't tell a difference?"  But like any good politician, I obfuscated and absquatulated my way out of that sensible question!).


----------



## money4me247

ruthieandjohn said:


> I am pleased to report that even though I cannot hear a difference with and without the Schiit Lyr2 + Bifrost Uber USB2 placed between my Grado PS1000 headphones and my FiiO X3 digital source, my son CAN, and even in a blind test.
> 
> (Of course, then his much more practical wife asked me, "Well, why do you have it (the Schiit stuff) if you can't tell a difference?"  But like any good politician, I obfuscated and absquatulated my way out of that sensible question!).




hahah funny. if u cant tell that differencr, then i wld absolutely stay away from tubes. in my opinion, the expensive tubes are all basically a scam. almost impossible to blind test out any differences. differences between tubes were much more subtle than I was lead to believe. your money can go further elsewhere. in my own personal opinion only of course, ymmmv.


----------



## DavidA

ruthieandjohn said:


> I am pleased to report that even though I cannot hear a difference with and without the Schiit Lyr2 + Bifrost Uber USB2 placed between my Grado PS1000 headphones and my FiiO X3 digital source, my son CAN, and even in a blind test.
> 
> (Of course, then his much more practical wife asked me, "Well, why do you have it (the Schiit stuff) if you can't tell a difference?"  But like any good politician, I obfuscated and absquatulated my way out of that sensible question!).


 

 If you can't tell the difference lucky you, you can save a lot of money on not buying tubes and you will not need the Bifrost and Lyr2, just your X3 DAP.
  
  


money4me247 said:


> hahah funny. if u cant tell that differencr, then i wld absolutely stay away from tubes. in my opinion, the expensive tubes are all basically a scam. almost impossible to blind test out any differences. differences between tubes were much more subtle than I was lead to believe. your money can go further elsewhere. in my own personal opinion only of course, ymmmv.


 

 I was able to do a sort of blind test where my friend came over with his Lyr2, we installed different tubes and I had my girlfriend switch the headphone between his Lyr2 and mine so we didn't know which was which.  Depending on the tubes used, sometimes there were large sonic differences between tubes and with other tubes there was little difference.  This is like trying wine, if you only open one bottle and don't have anything to compare it to its hard to tell the differences from a bottle you opened yesterday but if you open say 4-6 bottles at the same time, even if they are from the same vineyard but different years you will notice a difference and like sound everyone has there own preference.


----------



## M-83

reddog said:


> The nos Telefunken tubes sound very nice but I was pretty satisfied with the current production tubes like the gold lions and the current produced Telefunken TK's after 200 hour burn in, really made my Alpha Primes sing. I would compare the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes to a bottle of 60 year old single scotch. And the current production tubes to 10 or 12 year old single-malt scotch, or just a good blend.


 

 Thanks Reddog. I'll leave the stock tubes in for a couple of months and let my kit burn in before I start switching tubes.  I've had about 2 hours of constant listening time today, and I'm very impressed with my new kit. I'm genuinely hearing detail I've not previously come across.  It's really easy to just keep on listening!  A brilliant track to show off the capabilities of the Lyr 2, Bifrost Uber & Alpha Prime is "Adios Ayer" by Jose Padilla.  Vocals are amazing, and a lovely easy listen. Gorgeous song.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

ruthieandjohn said:


> I am pleased to report that even though I cannot hear a difference with and without the Schiit Lyr2 + Bifrost Uber USB2 placed between my Grado PS1000 headphones and my FiiO X3 digital source, my son CAN, and even in a blind test.
> 
> (Of course, then his much more practical wife asked me, "Well, why do you have it (the Schiit stuff) if you can't tell a difference?"  But like any good politician, I obfuscated and absquatulated my way out of that sensible question!).


 
  


davida said:


> If you can't tell the difference lucky you, you can save a lot of money on not buying tubes and you will not need the Bifrost and Lyr2, just your X3 DAP.
> 
> 
> 
> I was able to do a sort of blind test where my friend came over with his Lyr2, we installed different tubes and I had my girlfriend switch the headphone between his Lyr2 and mine so we didn't know which was which.  Depending on the tubes used, sometimes there were large sonic differences between tubes and with other tubes there was little difference.  This is like trying wine, if you only open one bottle and don't have anything to compare it to its hard to tell the differences from a bottle you opened yesterday but if you open say 4-6 bottles at the same time, even if they are from the same vineyard but different years you will notice a difference and like sound everyone has there own preference.


 
 Nice!


----------



## money4me247

davida said:


> I was able to do a sort of blind test where my friend came over with his Lyr2, we installed different tubes and I had my girlfriend switch the headphone between his Lyr2 and mine so we didn't know which was which.  Depending on the tubes used, sometimes there were large sonic differences between tubes and with other tubes there was little difference.  This is like trying wine, if you only open one bottle and don't have anything to compare it to its hard to tell the differences from a bottle you opened yesterday but if you open say 4-6 bottles at the same time, even if they are from the same vineyard but different years you will notice a difference and like sound everyone has there own preference.


 
 your point is valid & I did experiment with a few different tubes. did not personally find any tube to cause a drastic sonic change for the Lyr 2 though. that being said, I do think that it sounds very competitive with just its stock tubes & I do think that other people may have a different experiences than me.


----------



## DavidA

money4me247 said:


> your point is valid & I did experiment with a few different tubes. did not personally find any tube to cause a drastic sonic change for the Lyr 2 though. that being said, I do think that it sounds very competitive with just its stock tubes & I do think that other people may have a different experiences than me.


 
 If I didn't have my friends Lyr2 for a side by side comparison I wouldn't have been able to hear differences between many tubes since it takes to long to turn off the amp, let the tubes cool before removing, installing the new tubes, letting them warm up for a bit and finally listening to music.
  
 Agree that the stock tubes are actually pretty good, some of the cheaper ones (under $10/pair) I tried were really bad to the point where I just stopped listening and hoped that they would burn in (I know, wishful thinking) but even after 50 hours they were just junk.


----------



## jamato8

davida said:


> If I didn't have my friends Lyr2 for a side by side comparison I wouldn't have been able to hear differences between many tubes since it takes to long to turn off the amp, let the tubes cool before removing, installing the new tubes, letting them warm up for a bit and finally listening to music.
> 
> Agree that the stock tubes are actually pretty good, some of the cheaper ones (under $10/pair) I tried were really bad to the point where I just stopped listening and hoped that they would burn in (I know, wishful thinking) but even after 50 hours they were just junk.


 

 They started the Lyr with some newly manufactured tubes. I told them they could get the 6BZ7 in quantity and it was the predecessor of the 6DJ8 type. Also for the price you can't beat them. They tried them out and went with them. Yes, the stock tube is pretty good sounding. You can also pick up some other brands for fun without spending a whole lot of money.


----------



## DavidA

jamato8 said:


> They started the Lyr with some newly manufactured tubes. I told them they could get the 6BZ7 in quantity and it was the predecessor of the 6DJ8 type. Also for the price you can't beat them. They tried them out and went with them. Yes, the stock tube is pretty good sounding. You can also pick up some other brands for fun without spending a whole lot of money.


 
 nice to know


----------



## M-83

hey guys, I just bought http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191612967788
  
 Do you think they will be ok with lyr 2? I took a punt on them at £20 then thought after I should've qualified out with more experienced folk than myself!!
  
 Your thoughts would be appreciated.
  
 Thx
  
 Rgds


----------



## mrip541

I’ve been comparing my Lyr 2 with my Lake People G109. To my ear the Lyr is more accurate. Tighter bass, cleaner sound particularly with layered material. But somehow the G109 tends to sound more “real” with voices and acoustic instruments. I keep going back and forth and quite frankly it’s confusing. Each time I switch to the Lyr I think, this amp is definitely technically better, and each time I switch back to the 109 I think, but these voices just sound _real_. That spooky feeling of there actually being a guitar inside my head. Maybe it’s a kind of euphonic presentation that just seems more inviting? I can’t quite put my finger on it... 
  
 edit - Wow this thing gets hot. I think I burned my finger.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mrip541 said:


> I’ve been comparing my Lyr 2 with my Lake People G109. To my ear the Lyr is more accurate. Tighter bass, cleaner sound particularly with layered material. But somehow the G109 tends to sound more “real” with voices and acoustic instruments. I keep going back and forth and quite frankly it’s confusing. Each time I switch to the Lyr I think, this amp is definitely technically better, and each time I switch back to the 109 I think, but these voices just sound _real_. That spooky feeling of there actually being a guitar inside my head. Maybe it’s a kind of euphonic presentation that just seems more inviting? I can’t quite put my finger on it...
> 
> edit - Wow this thing gets hot. I think I burned my finger.


 
 Huh? Inadequate ventilation? Did you put the rubber feet on the Lyr2? Both my Schiit Amps get WARM-but never hot enough to burn. The Lyr can sound different when different tubes are rolled.
 With my Siemens 1966 CCA's I find the Lyr and Ragnarok (single ended) sound pretty close in quality. I set my Oppo to replay the same short section over and over and manually switch back and forth, since our perception of bass and treble is related to volume-it's important to level match. When I used the balanced headphone out-I clearly prefer the Ragnarok.
  
 With


----------



## jumbito78

Hello to everyone....any tube recommendation in order to get a warm & bass punchy sound with a laid back treble response and a lot of body?
 The set up is the SCHIIT LYR 2, Cambridge DAC magic, DBX 120X DS and pure hi res files. Cans are HD700 which are indeed not the most warmer in the market.
  
 tks


----------



## Hardwired

jumbito78 said:


> Hello to everyone....any tube recommendation in order to get a warm & bass punchy sound with a laid back treble response and a lot of body?
> The set up is the SCHIIT LYR 2, Cambridge DAC magic, DBX 120X DS and pure hi res files. Cans are HD700 which are indeed not the most warmer in the market.
> 
> tks


 
  
 That depends on your budget, but I'm currently listening to a set of Butt Ugly Amperex tubes from Brent Jesse's site that match the sound you describe. They are here:
  
http://www.audiotubes.com/butt.htm
  
 Search for E88CC / 6922 "BUTT UGLY" Amperex white PQ type on the page to find them. They run $170 a pair. Compare that to the $380 a pair my Telefunken platinums run, and the butt uglys are a bargain. The Telefunkens have more detail and high end extension and the bass is tighter, but the Amperex tubes have more bass that's not bloated and a relaxed top end that's exactly what you're describing. I took a chance on something that would sound different than the Telefunkens while still sounding good and these fit the bill. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## DavidA

jumbito78 said:


> Hello to everyone....any tube recommendation in order to get a warm & bass punchy sound with a laid back treble response and a lot of body?
> The set up is the SCHIIT LYR 2, Cambridge DAC magic, DBX 120X DS and pure hi res files. Cans are HD700 which are indeed not the most warmer in the market.
> 
> tks


 

 Reflectors or Amperex Bugle Boys for me


----------



## Larryp12

davida said:


> Reflectors or Amperex Bugle Boys for me


 

 Gold Lions from Upscale Audio did the trick for my Lyr 2 and HD 650s.


----------



## DavidA

larryp12 said:


> Gold Lions from Upscale Audio did the trick for my Lyr 2 and HD 650s.


 

 I have some gold lions also, found them to quite good for the price.


----------



## Larryp12

davida said:


> I have some gold lions also, found them to quite good for the price.


 

 DavidA do you think the Reflectors and Bugle Boys are upgrades from the Gold Lions? I listen mostly to jazz.


----------



## jumbito78

hardwired said:


> That depends on your budget, but I'm currently listening to a set of Butt Ugly Amperex tubes from Brent Jesse's site that match the sound you describe. They are here:
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/butt.htm
> 
> Search for E88CC / 6922 "BUTT UGLY" Amperex white PQ type on the page to find them. They run $170 a pair. Compare that to the $380 a pair my Telefunken platinums run, and the butt uglys are a bargain. The Telefunkens have more detail and high end extension and the bass is tighter, but the Amperex tubes have more bass that's not bloated and a relaxed top end that's exactly what you're describing. I took a chance on something that would sound different than the Telefunkens while still sounding good and these fit the bill. Just my 2 cents.


 

 Thanks!, already checked the website....will definitely give them a shot, did you buy your´s at  that website?
  
 By the way, Im trying now the RCA 6BQ7A and even if they don´t get the sound I want with the HD700, they do make a terrific job with the Fidelios X1...the combination really rocks...


----------



## jumbito78

hardwired said:


> That depends on your budget, but I'm currently listening to a set of Butt Ugly Amperex tubes from Brent Jesse's site that match the sound you describe. They are here:
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/butt.htm
> 
> Search for E88CC / 6922 "BUTT UGLY" Amperex white PQ type on the page to find them. They run $170 a pair. Compare that to the $380 a pair my Telefunken platinums run, and the butt uglys are a bargain. The Telefunkens have more detail and high end extension and the bass is tighter, but the Amperex tubes have more bass that's not bloated and a relaxed top end that's exactly what you're describing. I took a chance on something that would sound different than the Telefunkens while still sounding good and these fit the bill. Just my 2 cents.


 
  
  


exacoustatowner said:


> Nice!


 
 Hardwired:
  
 Thanks great!!!!!!!!!!!!! will definitely give the Amperex a shot.....


----------



## DavidA

larryp12 said:


> DavidA do you think the Reflectors and Bugle Boys are upgrades from the Gold Lions? I listen mostly to jazz.


 

 The only tubes that I have that I would say are "slight upgrades" from the Reflectors, Gold Lions, and Bugle Boys are 2 pairs Telefunken CCa, Siemens CCa/Lorenz, and a pair of 1960's Amperex Hollands, the difference is noticeable but only will careful listening.  I got these tubes when I first started as many said that they were some of the best but after trying a bunch of other tubes I've concluded that for me they are not worth the premium cost vs the Reflectors and some other less pricy tubes, like everything here YMMV.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> The only tubes that I have that I would say are "slight upgrades" from the Reflectors, Gold Lions, and Bugle Boys are 2 pairs Telefunken CCa, Siemens CCa/Lorenz, and a pair of 1960's Amperex Hollands, the difference is noticeable but only will careful listening.  I got these tubes when I first started as many said that they were some of the best but after trying a bunch of other tubes I've concluded that for me they are not worth the premium cost vs the Reflectors and some other less pricy tubes, like everything here YMMV.



The truck is that audio memory is fairly short so comparisons are hard unless the differences are large. I do like the Amperex!
I got the Ragnarok last month and I find myself listening to it most of the time. I have to say it reminds me of the Lyr-with the best Amperex-nearly holographic! And just a little bit larger soundstage when the signal chain is 100% balanced.
Via the unbalanced out the Lyr is very close in sound. I slightly prefer the Lyr with certain high end NOS tubes for some recordings with unbalanced HE-560. Ive compared them with about a second delay and level matching. It takes me 30 seconds or so to swap to balanced cables-but I think they are better


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> The truck is that audio memory is fairly short so comparisons are hard unless the differences are large. I do like the Amperex!
> I got the Ragnarok last month and I find myself listening to it most of the time. I have to say it reminds me of the Lyr-with the best Amperex-nearly holographic! And just a little bit larger soundstage when the signal chain is 100% balanced.
> Via the unbalanced out the Lyr is very close in sound. I slightly prefer the Lyr with certain high end NOS tubes for some recordings with unbalanced HE-560. Ive compared them with about a second delay and level matching. It takes me 30 seconds or so to swap to balanced cables-but I think they are better


 

 I was lucky enough to have my friend over with his Lyr2 so we could A/B quickly the different tubes we tried and we got to compare notes/impressions in real time.  Agree that audio memory is fairly short, I usually try to remember a comparison with something that I have so it gives me a slightly better point of reference.
  
 As for the Rag, for me the Lyr2/Project Ember/BH Crack that I have are end game for me, I'm getting old so going to something like the Rag is not worth the investment, better off just getting more music.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> I was lucky enough to have my friend over with his Lyr2 so we could A/B quickly the different tubes we tried and we got to compare notes/impressions in real time.  Agree that audio memory is fairly short, I usually try to remember a comparison with something that I have so it gives me a slightly better point of reference.
> 
> As for the Rag, for me the Lyr2/Project Ember/BH Crack that I have are end game for me, I'm getting old so going to something like the Rag is not worth the investment, better off just getting more music.


 
 Hi DavidA
 That's quite lucky to be able to have 2 Lyr's to A/B! I can only compare the different tubes and Lyr-with the Ragnarok. My Oppo BDP-105D can output via the RCA and XLR balanced simultaneously so I can just switch the headphone plug quickly in slightly more than 1 second.
 Since I am running XLR to the Ragnarok and RCA to the Lyr-I can't account for possible qualitative differences between the two routes. I suppose I could use the Stereo Out RCA and the Left and Right 5 channel RCA outs…but it's really all about the best out of either.
 RE: "investments". I GET that. I was just spending TOO much on NOS tube rolling. Now that I have several pairs that I think are terrific I think I am set.Especially considering that the Ragnarok sounds so good. All that said- the Lyr with great tubes does NOT disappoint me in any way. I just hope the Rag extends the lifetime of the rare NOS tubes I have!


----------



## esteboune

Just came back from holidays in Canada where i bought a Lyr2.
  
 I bought a couple of nice tubes as well. 
  
 I did not manage to resist to the temptation and started listening with Reflektor 74 Gray shield instead of the Original tubes...
  
 Compare to my previous amp ( Little Dot mkiii + upgraded tubes) there a noticeable change of soundstage, i can hear more details, the sound is more "airy". Moreover the bass seems better controlled.
  
 Weirdly enough, the lyr2 is not as loud as the LDmkiii (using LCD2)... I was using the LD at 9am on the volume knob whereas the lyr2 is at 1-2pm
  
 anyway, i have been using it for 1h already, and the it seems a bit better


----------



## DavidA

esteboune said:


> Just came back from holidays in Canada where i bought a Lyr2.
> 
> I bought a couple of nice tubes as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you check the input gain on the back of the Lyr2?


----------



## esteboune

davida said:


> Did you check the input gain on the back of the Lyr2?


 

 thanks for your reply
  
 set in LO


----------



## DavidA

esteboune said:


> thanks for your reply
> 
> set in LO


 

 you're welcome, hope you enjoy your Lyr2


----------



## esteboune

davida said:


> you're welcome, hope you enjoy your Lyr2


 

 i do!
  
 ( Samuel Barber just made me cry...)
  
 with the LCD2 (50 ohms) i believe the gain setting is LO, am i right?


----------



## DavidA

esteboune said:


> i do!
> 
> ( Samuel Barber just made me cry...)
> 
> with the LCD2 (50 ohms) i believe the gain setting is LO, am i right?


 
 I usually have the gain on low but its more to keep the volume knob in the middle of the dial range.


----------



## sebbaan

Anyone using lyr and modi together?


----------



## reddog

davida said:


> I have some gold lions also, found them to quite good for the price.



+1


----------



## jumbito78

Thanks...any particular number recommendation? the purpose is to get rid of the high pitch in the HD 700....
  
 regards.


----------



## Hardwired

jumbito78 said:


> Thanks...any particular number recommendation? the purpose is to get rid of the high pitch in the HD 700....
> 
> regards.


 

 Well, you could get a different headphone, but that's just me. I start with a sound I like, then tailor it. Trying to "fix" something is not the way I would go, IMO.


----------



## DavidA

sebbaan said:


> Anyone using lyr and modi together?


 

 Tried this combo, the modi and Lyr2 will work but it sounds a little on the thin/bright side IMO.  I use my Lyr2 with either a Bifrost or Teac UD-301, the Bifrost has a more neutral sound while the UD-301 has better dynamics to me.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Are tubes interchangeable between the Lyr and the Lyr 2?  When I read the threads on Lyr Tube Rolling, can I assume tubes mentioned for the Lyr will work for the Lyr 2?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Larryp12

davida said:


> Tried this combo, the modi and Lyr2 will work but it sounds a little on the thin/bright side IMO.  I use my Lyr2 with either a Bifrost or Teac UD-301, the Bifrost has a more neutral sound while the UD-301 has better dynamics to me.


 

 I'm currently using the Modi/Lyr2 combo because I've blown my stereo budget for the year.  The combination works as a very good temporary arrangement. The Modi is an impressive DAC for only $100 and the combo sounds noticeably better than my Fiio X5/Lyr 2 combo. Bifrost upgrade is planned for Xmas.


----------



## KeithEmo

hardwired said:


> Well, you could get a different headphone, but that's just me. I start with a sound I like, then tailor it. Trying to "fix" something is not the way I would go, IMO.


 
  
 I agree. The single biggest thing that determines how your headphones will sound is - no big surprise - the headphones themselves. Like speakers, there is a huge difference between different headphones. Next down the list would be the difference between tube headphone amps and solid state ones. Then the difference between different brands and models of tube headphone amps (the differences between solid state amps tend to be smaller). Then, finally, at the end of the list, the difference you can get by rolling different tubes in the same amp.
  
 If there's something major that you don't like about the headphones you have, then it's time to seriously think about finding a different pair of headphones.


----------



## DavidA

ruthieandjohn said:


> Are tubes interchangeable between the Lyr and the Lyr 2?  When I read the threads on Lyr Tube Rolling, can I assume tubes mentioned for the Lyr will work for the Lyr 2?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 The original Lyr will take some tubes that don't work in the Lyr2.  Go to the beginning of the Lyr tube rolling thread and there is a list that shows what works in which version of the Lyr.  It looks like the Lyr2 will use about 50% of the tubes that work in the Lry


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> Tried this combo, the modi and Lyr2 will work but it sounds a little on the thin/bright side IMO.  I use my Lyr2 with either a Bifrost or Teac UD-301, the Bifrost has a more neutral sound while the UD-301 has better dynamics to me.



I'm surprised there is so much difference in DAC's given they all are flat in the audible range. Are you sure they have the same output levels? The bass, mids and treble are all affected by loudness.
I'm using the DAC's in my Oppo BDP105 for my Lyr and Ragnarok. I might be trying out the Modi and Bifrost with the Lyr for sound from the computer. I'll try and match the sound out with a db meter first before comparing. Maybe I'll be surprised!


----------



## Gibsonmac

exacoustatowner said:


> I'm surprised there is so much difference in DAC's given they all are flat in the audible range. Are you sure they have the same output levels? The bass, mids and treble are all affected by loudness.
> I'm using the DAC's in my Oppo BDP105 for my Lyr and Ragnarok. I might be trying out the Modi and Bifrost with the Lyr for sound from the computer. I'll try and match the sound out with a db meter first before comparing. Maybe I'll be surprised!



Ideally yes, they are supposed to be flat and transparent, but that is rarely the case. With really high end, transparent amps like the v281/rag/Taurus, this is VERY evident. 

There is a noticeable difference when going from a built-in DAC to something like the bifrost, and even more so when moving up to the gungnir.

Price is not necessarily reflective on sound quality, there are plenty of 1k+ DACs out there that sound thin/weak.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibsonmac said:


> Ideally yes, they are supposed to be flat and transparent, but that is rarely the case. With really high end, transparent amps like the v281/rag/Taurus, this is VERY evident.
> 
> There is a noticeable difference when going from a built-in DAC to something like the bifrost, and even more so when moving up to the gungnir.
> 
> Price is not necessarily reflective on sound quality, there are plenty of 1k+ DACs out there that sound thin/weak.



I'll be comparing Bifrost and Gungnir soon I think!


----------



## Gibsonmac

exacoustatowner said:


> I'll be comparing Bifrost and Gungnir soon I think!


Just like the bifrost, the gungnir hits way above its weight class.


----------



## Westron

I am interested in the SQ of the Lyr 2. It is slightly better than the Lyr 1 and with a little less noise-floor. But I have one question: why not make the amp more airflow friendly. I almost burnt my hand on the Lyr 2 at the Schiit table at Canjam. Where are the heat sinks? Why isn't the top more perforated? Why is my hand almost on fire after touching the volume knob. If you ask me, the volume knob could be its own heat sink, it would look cool and users would be less afraid to turn up the volume with fear of being burnt.


----------



## Hardwired

westron said:


> I am interested in the SQ of the Lyr 2. It is slightly better than the Lyr 1 and with a little less noise-floor. But I have one question: why not make the amp more airflow friendly. I almost burnt my hand on the Lyr 2 at the Schiit table at Canjam. Where are the heat sinks? Why isn't the top more perforated? Why is my hand almost on fire after touching the volume knob. If you ask me, the volume knob could be its own heat sink, it would look cool and users would be less afraid to turn up the volume with fear of being burnt.


 
  
 It does get hot, but it's a simple fix: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00080G0BK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00


----------



## Gibsonmac

westron said:


> I am interested in the SQ of the Lyr 2. It is slightly better than the Lyr 1 and with a little less noise-floor. But I have one question: why not make the amp more airflow friendly. I almost burnt my hand on the Lyr 2 at the Schiit table at Canjam. Where are the heat sinks? Why isn't the top more perforated? Why is my hand almost on fire after touching the volume knob. If you ask me, the volume knob could be its own heat sink, it would look cool and users would be less afraid to turn up the volume with fear of being burnt.


Mine gets very warm, but never hot enough to burn anything, unless you are touching the tubes that is.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibsonmac said:


> Mine gets very warm, but never hot enough to burn anything, unless you are touching the tubes that is.


 
 Mine got so hot it melted a hole through the table, floor, and many miles of solid rock. It's now found thermal equilibrium with the mantle. It still sounds great though I worry that the hundreds of miles of cable are softening the treble a little. I'm KIDDING! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It never gets too hot to touch,just make sure you have ventilation. The case IS the heat sink which is part of the reason the case gets warm. All Class A amps get warm. Nature of the beast,


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> Mine got so hot it melted a hole through the table, floor, and many miles of solid rock. It's now found thermal equilibrium with the mantle. It still sounds great though I worry that the hundreds of miles of cable are softening the treble a little. I'm KIDDING!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Like @Hardwired I use a fan that is powered of my PC that is next to the Lyr2 which does get hot but not to the point where it will burn your finger.


----------



## KeithEmo

westron said:


> I am interested in the SQ of the Lyr 2. It is slightly better than the Lyr 1 and with a little less noise-floor. But I have one question: why not make the amp more airflow friendly. I almost burnt my hand on the Lyr 2 at the Schiit table at Canjam. Where are the heat sinks? Why isn't the top more perforated? Why is my hand almost on fire after touching the volume knob. If you ask me, the volume knob could be its own heat sink, it would look cool and users would be less afraid to turn up the volume with fear of being burnt.


 
  
 Where are the heat sinks?
  
 You're looking at them.
  
 The aluminum chassis _IS_ the heat sink... which is why it gets warm.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

keithemo said:


> Where are the heat sinks?
> 
> You're looking at them.
> 
> The aluminum chassis _IS_ the heat sink... which is why it gets warm.


 
 Yep. And I can lay my hand on it without any pain- not the tubes of course!


----------



## jumbito78

You´re absolutely right, for different reasons I ended up with a HD 700 pair....impossible to sell in México and that´s why I´m trying to get a pair of tubes for the Lyr that would make it up for me....


----------



## sfo1972

For those interested, the Lyr/Lyr2 compatibility chart was updated with a few new sections and one new tube.  Check it out:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
  
 Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

@kayandjohn welcome to the world of Lyr2 and good luck with your endeavors. I am glad you found the chart/guide helpful - make sure to come back to the forums and ask questions when in doubt, the guys here have been truly amazing to learn and avoid costly mistakes.
  
 Happy rolling.


----------



## DavidA

jumbito78 said:


> You´re absolutely right, for different reasons I ended up with a HD 700 pair....impossible to sell in México and that´s why I´m trying to get a pair of tubes for the Lyr that would make it up for me....


 
 For the HD-700 the best tubes that I have are Amperex "PQ" tubes, really mellows out the highs on the HD-700 and the dynamics are quite good.  I've found that for me and my girlfriend the Ember actually works better, good luck.


----------



## TXAlex

Hey everyone and salutations. I just joined here and have found it to be a great resource. I have dabbled in a bit of music production but have always felt there was something missing from my set up - Complete Audio 6 and Sound blaster ZxR.   While the ZxR could drive my Beyerdynamic DT 880 the seem to fall flat.
  
 My computers's pcix slots were all completely taken so when I decided to water-cool my raid card and video cards to reduce the noise in my workspace. Which meant I had to down-grade to a Sound Blaster Zx which claims to have a 600ohm aplifyer which I found completely lacking.
  
 I purchased a Lyr from Amazon to connect to my Soundblaster's line out but had awful ground loop noise.  I was going to just install a ground loop isolation system but found that through my research that would be a complete waste of time.
  
 So I broke down and returned the lyr and ordred a Bifrost Uber and Lyr2 directly from Schitt and upgraded the tubest to AMPEREX USN CEP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 7308 VACUUM TUBE 1965 PAIR MATCH PAIR BEST A21G.
  
 Just incredible. Now I just look for higher quality audio to take advantage of this system.  I have my line out connect do a Marantz SR7009 which too produces and an incredible sound stage from this tube amp. Substantially better than it's built in DSP.
  
 I am very happy with this Schiit.


----------



## sfo1972

txalex said:


> Hey everyone and salutations. I just joined here and have found it to be a great resource. I have dabbled in a bit of music production but have always felt there was something missing from my set up - Complete Audio 6 and Sound blaster ZxR.   While the ZxR could drive my [COLOR=0066C0]Beyerdynamic DT 880[/COLOR] the seem to fall flat.
> 
> My computers's pcix slots were all completely taken so when I decided to water-cool my raid card and video cards to reduce the noise in my workspace. Which meant I had to down-grade to a Sound Blaster Zx which claims to have a 600ohm aplifyer which I found completely lacking.
> 
> ...




Welcome to the forum and the world of the Lyr2. The Bifrost Uber + Lyr2 are a killer combo for an amazing price. You will find that any well recorded music, even if it's not fully hi-Rez, will sound amazing on your rig. The trick is to enjoy the music and avoid the pitfall of nit picking on the bit rate and format.

Have fun


----------



## Exacoustatowner

txalex said:


> Hey everyone and salutations. I just joined here and have found it to be a great resource. I have dabbled in a bit of music production but have always felt there was something missing from my set up - Complete Audio 6 and Sound blaster ZxR.   While the ZxR could drive my [COLOR=0066C0]Beyerdynamic DT 880[/COLOR] the seem to fall flat.
> 
> My computers's pcix slots were all completely taken so when I decided to water-cool my raid card and video cards to reduce the noise in my workspace. Which meant I had to down-grade to a Sound Blaster Zx which claims to have a 600ohm aplifyer which I found completely lacking.
> 
> ...



Congrats! I have a pair of those tubes. Nice they are.


----------



## jumbito78

davida said:


> For the HD-700 the best tubes that I have are Amperex "PQ" tubes, really mellows out the highs on the HD-700 and the dynamics are quite good.  I've found that for me and my girlfriend the Ember actually works better, good luck.


 
 DavidA, thanks for your reply....do you have an specific Amperex PQ number? i was told that the Amperex UGLY BUTTS were the way to go to mellow those damned highs..regards.


----------



## DavidA

jumbito78 said:


> DavidA, thanks for your reply....do you have an specific Amperex PQ number? i was told that the Amperex UGLY BUTTS were the way to go to mellow those damned highs..regards.


 

 Haven't tried any "ugly butts", first I've heard of them, sorry.  As for the "PQ" there are a few on ebay every once in a while, cost has gone up since I got mine about a year ago.  Best to buy from dealer that takes returns or ebay warranty, good luck.


----------



## jumbito78

davida said:


> Haven't tried any "ugly butts", first I've heard of them, sorry.  As for the "PQ" there are a few on ebay every once in a while, cost has gone up since I got mine about a year ago.  Best to buy from dealer that takes returns or ebay warranty, good luck.


 
 Ok....thanks!!! will make the search.


----------



## Hardwired

jumbito78 said:


> DavidA, thanks for your reply....do you have an specific Amperex PQ number? i was told that the Amperex UGLY BUTTS were the way to go to mellow those damned highs..regards.


 
  
 Haha! I explained about the "butt ugly" tubes on Brent Jesse's site that are not cosmetically perfect but sound great and cost less. The "E88CC / 6922 "BUTT UGLY" Amperex white PQ type" sound exactly like what DavidA also recommended.
  
http://www.audiotubes.com/butt.htm
  
 Maybe you can score some cheaper on eBay but I don't know enough to filter out the bad ones so I buy from reputable stores I can trust and folks here on Head-Fi.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

jumbito78 said:


> Ok....thanks!!! will make the search.






Gee... I BLUSH to think of what I saw when I typed "Ugly Butts" into my search engine!  Suffice it to say... they were the weirdest tubes I have EVER seen, and I don't see how they could fit into the socket!! In fact, I would say that they looked more like CANS than TUBES!


----------



## Hardwired

Heh, I got a surprise the other night searching for 'vintage tubes'. It was not what I expected.


----------



## sling5s

delete


----------



## sling5s

LISST "TUBES" by Schiit --solid state tubes. transforms lyr 2 into a solid state amp. Sounds interesting. 
 Definitely sounds worth purchasing.
 http://schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes


----------



## DavidA

sling5s said:


> LISST "TUBES" by Schiit --solid state tubes. transforms lyr 2 into a solid state amp. Sounds interesting.
> Definitely sounds worth purchasing.
> http://schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes


 

 Anyone try these?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

davida said:


> Anyone try these?



On order


----------



## Oklahoma

davida said:


> Anyone try these?


 
 On order.  Unless someone bought them at the show and took them home no one is going to have a review yet unless they were the ones used at the show which is less than ideal conditions to rate a product.  There are probably LOTS that are going out Monday, the Schiit office is gonna be busy with orders most likely.  If mine ship Monday I should get them Wednesday so reviews should start showing up around the end of the week or next week.


----------



## DavidA

exacoustatowner said:


> On order


 
  


oklahoma said:


> On order.  Unless someone bought them at the show and took them home no one is going to have a review yet unless they were the ones used at the show which is less than ideal conditions to rate a product.  There are probably LOTS that are going out Monday, the Schiit office is gonna be busy with orders most likely.  If mine ship Monday I should get them Wednesday so reviews should start showing up around the end of the week or next week.


 
 Can't wait for your impressions, could you also note what tubes you are comparing them to?


----------



## PiMoGo

Recently obtained a Lyr 2 to drive my Beyerdynamic 250 Ohm headphones, but was really surprised that I had to turn the volume up to 75+% of full on classical pieces. I was expecting considerable more headroom. What if i had the 600ohm cans, for instance? I'm feeding the amp through a DAC connected to my macbook pro running amarra  with Flac files. Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## toolio

pimogo said:


> Recently obtained a Lyr 2 to drive my Beyerdynamic 250 Ohm headphones, but was really surprised that I had to turn the volume up to 75+% of full on classical pieces. I was expecting considerable more headroom. What if i had the 600ohm cans, for instance? I'm feeding the amp through a DAC connected to my macbook pro running amarra  with Flac files. Any thoughts? Thanks.




Is your gain switch on the correct setting?


----------



## PiMoGo

Its on HIGH. So yeah, I believe so.


----------



## Oklahoma

What is the computer volume at?  I am running a Lyr 2 in low gain into a pair of Senn. HD800's at 300 Ohms and I cannot get over 12 o'clock without it being incredibly loud.  On high gain I sit around 9 to 10 o'clock.


----------



## PiMoGo

oklahoma said:


> What is the computer volume at?  I am running a Lyr 2 in low gain into a pair of Senn. HD800's at 300 Ohms and I cannot get over 12 o'clock without it being incredibly loud.  On high gain I sit around 9 to 10 o'clock.




Am I mistaken to think that the computer volume control is disabled when plugged into a DAC via usb? I'll look into this when I get home. Thanks.


----------



## Oklahoma

pimogo said:


> Am I mistaken to think that the computer volume control is disabled when plugged into a DAC via usb? I'll look into this when I get home. Thanks.


 
 On most systems you would be incorrect.  If I change the computer volume with my Modi plugged in it still controls the volume accordingly.


----------



## toolio

oklahoma said:


> On most systems you would be incorrect.  If I change the computer volume with my Modi plugged in it still controls the volume accordingly.




Exactly. It can also depend on the configuration of the computer USB interface and the player used. That has be the problem. I have the original Lyr and anything over 12-1 o'clock is very loud with almost all of my headphones. This includes my Beyerdynamic DT150s (250 ohms).


----------



## PiMoGo

So I just checked, and yes indeed my volume does get disabled on my Macbook when i connect to the Bitfrost and/or Hrt Music Streamer via USB. IN any case, on most music i'm fine around the noon to 1pm spot, but with classical i'm able to push it much further past 75% (even during musical peaks). This is not common I gather?


----------



## Oklahoma

pimogo said:


> So I just checked, and yes indeed my volume does get disabled on my Macbook when i connect to the Bitfrost and/or Hrt Music Streamer via USB. IN any case, on most music i'm fine around the noon to 1pm spot, but with classical i'm able to push it much further past 75% (even during musical peaks). This is not common I gather?


 
 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Windows here so cannot comment on possible settings to pursue on the Mac.  Do you have another source other than the Mac to try things with?  Another computer, a Blu ray player with optical into the Bifrost optical, or even an Ipod ran into the Lyr would start to narrow down what is going on.  Only other thing off the top of my head is does your player have a volume control like itunes or does it lock that out as well?


----------



## PiMoGo

oklahoma said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Windows here so cannot comment on possible settings to pursue on the Mac.  Do you have another source other than the Mac to try things with?  Another computer, a Blu ray player with optical into the Bifrost optical, or even an Ipod ran into the Lyr would start to narrow down what is going on.  Only other thing off the top of my head is does your player have a volume control like itunes or does it lock that out as well?


 
 thanks for your help! So i tried my windows laptop, still through USB (dont have optical on me anyway) and here I'm able to adjust all my volume levels. I ensure my system volume as well as my tidal volume were set at 100%, but stil i was able to take the volume knob to past 75%, reaching 100% momentarily before it got too loud. Problem too is at those levels graininess and or noise is also introduced.. Ugh.. not a pleasant experience. :/


----------



## Oklahoma

I would consider contacting Schiit about it, email don't try calling.  Explain you have tried it on multiple computers and it does it on both and that you are on high gain.  Do expect a fairly short answer as they are usually short and to the point with responses.  
  
 Only thing I can think of to start doing is process of elimination with equipment and make sure it is the Lyr and maybe not the headphones would be to try another pair of headphones doesn't really matter what ones and see what volume you can get out of it.  Also, could the tubes be bad if you have another set to try.  For reference for me on low gain here is where I usually run it for high volume (not ear bleeding point but comfortably loud).
  
 HD 800's - 300 Ohms - 11 to 12 o'clock
 B&W P7's - 22 Ohms - 8 to 9 o'clock
 vModa m100's - 32 Ohms - 8 to 10 o'clock


----------



## toolio

As many others have noted elsewhere, if there is a problem Schiit will promptly resolve it. I had a defective original Lyr (crackling in one channel, even when tubes were switched) and they sent me a replacement.


----------



## DavidA

@PiMoGo
@Oklahoma
 My volume knob is usually between 10 and 1 for most of my headphones that I use the Lyr2 with, gain is on high, windows volume control is at 75 out of 100, using optical to UD-301 or Bifrost Uber.
 Headphones used on Lyr2: HE-400/400i/560, LCD-2f, TH-600, K7XX


----------



## PiMoGo

davida said:


> @PiMoGo
> @Oklahoma
> My volume knob is usually between 10 and 1 for most of my headphones that I use the Lyr2 with, gain is on high, windows volume control is at 75 out of 100, using optical to UD-301 or Bifrost Uber.
> Headphones used on Lyr2: HE-400/400i/560, LCD-2f, TH-600, K7XX


 
 is this along the lines of what you'd expect? the k7XX is around 60ohms.  also when listening to classical music, do you push the knob any higher?


----------



## DavidA

pimogo said:


> is this along the lines of what you'd expect? the k7XX is around 60ohms.  also when listening to classical music, do you push the knob any higher?


 
 I use the K7XX mostly for classic rock and new age, also I've found that my Project Ember drives them better than the Lyr2.
  
 For classical its always my HD800 with a BH Crack, hard to beat this combination IMO.


----------



## B-Dawk20

Hi guys, I think I'll be a new Lyr 2 owner soon in addition to a couple of new headphones as well to go with it. Just a few questions I have about the amp.

What gain setting should I use for these headphones? HD650, HE-400S, and Q701

And should I get the LISST in addition to the stock tubes? Should I buy any other tubes while I'm at it?


----------



## JK-47

davida said:


> @PiMoGo
> @Oklahoma
> My volume knob is usually between 10 and 1 for most of my headphones that I use the Lyr2 with, gain is on high, windows volume control is at 75 out of 100, using optical to UD-301 or Bifrost Uber.
> Headphones used on Lyr2: HE-400/400i/560, LCD-2f, TH-600, K7XX


 
 Deleted...


----------



## magnum703

b-dawk20 said:


> Hi guys, I think I'll be a new Lyr 2 owner soon in addition to a couple of new headphones as well to go with it. Just a few questions I have about the amp.
> 
> What gain setting should I use for these headphones? HD650, HE-400S, and Q701
> 
> And should I get the LISST in addition to the stock tubes? Should I buy any other tubes while I'm at it?




I don't like the LISST tubes as much as the tubes that came with it. I guess I just like the tube sound more. For me I use low gain on my hd650. High gain seems to be giving me some hiss and other sounds.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

magnum703 said:


> I don't like the LISST tubes as much as the tubes that came with it. I guess I just like the tube sound more. For me I use low gain on my hd650. High gain seems to be giving me some hiss and other sounds.


 
 Great to hear that the tubes that come with the Lyr2 are good! I wondered, since there are threads that talk about tube rolling (swapping, but I guess here we call it rolling, like log rolling).  I certainly love mine with its stock tubes!  Even bought a second pair of the same tubes, just in case.


----------



## magnum703

ruthieandjohn said:


> Great to hear that the tubes that come with the Lyr2 are good! I wondered, since there are threads that talk about tube rolling (swapping, but I guess here we call it rolling, like log rolling).  I certainly love mine with its stock tubes!  Even bought a second pair of the same tubes, just in case.




I literally got my lyr2 3 days ago so I don't know much at all. Just that to ME the stock tubes sounds better! I'm looking into amperex 6dj8 orange globe to try


----------



## DavidA

@kayandjohn, @magnum703, if you are going to roll a lot of tubes suggest getting socket savers and some Deoxit.
  
 Socket savers: from: http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 Deoxit: http://www.amazon.com/Booster-Electric-Connection-Enhancer-Lubricant/dp/B0002BBVN2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1441380370&sr=8-3&keywords=deoxit


----------



## magnum703

@DavidA, I read that those cheaper priced ebay socket savers are pretty much the same?


----------



## B-Dawk20

My Lyr 2 came in today...just a few more miles away from home and then I can fiddle with it!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

b-dawk20 said:


> My Lyr 2 came in today...just a few more miles away from home and then I can fiddle with it!


 

 QUIT SPEEDING to get to your Lyr2... don't you know that the Delaware State Police are out in force for Labor Day???


----------



## B-Dawk20

ruthieandjohn said:


> QUIT SPEEDING to get to your Lyr2... don't you know that the Delaware State Police are out in force for Labor Day???




Hahaha, what you know about the DE police?


----------



## DavidA

magnum703 said:


> @DavidA, I read that those cheaper priced ebay socket savers are pretty much the same?


 
 I tried a few before being directed to those from tubemonger.  All of the cheap ones were just pins welded on to the base of the socket, some pins were not aligned correctly, two started to deform from the heat, and out of the 6 pairs that I tried 5 induced a little humming noise, static, or had some channel imbalance.  posted this picture a few months back of the cheap socket saver:


----------



## magnum703

davida said:


> I tried a few before being directed to those from tubemonger.  All of the cheap ones were just pins welded on to the base of the socket, some pins were not aligned correctly, two started to deform from the heat, and out of the 6 pairs that I tried 5 induced a little humming noise, static, or had some channel imbalance.  posted this picture a few months back of the cheap socket saver:



Thank you!!!


----------



## Richsvt

I know this may be a somewhat simple question, but as I have the original Modi/Magni, I am looking to get into some serious tube action and from what I have read, the Lyr 2 may just fit the bill. Would I see significant SQ improvement stepping up to the Bifrost over the Modi? Using a MBP running mostly FLAC/ALAC and using my HD700s and HE400i as phones. Love the M&M stack, just need to explore tubes and get into some rolling to adjust the signature. Lyr 2 seems like a good place to start. Maybe get the Bifrost after...?


----------



## Mark-sf

richsvt said:


> I know this may be a somewhat simple question, but as I have the original Modi/Magni, I am looking to get into some serious tube action and from what I have read, the Lyr 2 may just fit the bill. Would I see significant SQ improvement stepping up to the Bifrost over the Modi? Using a MBP running mostly FLAC/ALAC and using my HD700s and HE400i as phones. Love the M&M stack, just need to explore tubes and get into some rolling to adjust the signature. Lyr 2 seems like a good place to start. Maybe get the Bifrost after...?


 

 I can't comment on Modi vs. Bifrost however, I have bee using my HD700's with the Lyr 2 since it came out and am extremely happy with it, I am not running the stock tubes which while clean do not have the dimensionality of the VR 6n23P's that I am using. When I got the Lyr  I compared it to the Asgaard 2 and the Lyr was a definite step up though there was very low his and hum with the efficient HD700s. Switching to the Lyr 2 on low gain with regulated heater voltage cleaned that right up. Been happy ever since.


----------



## deividi

After reading through this thread (+ a million others ..), the Lyr 2 is starting to sound as a really good choice for me. My current setup is Beyerdynamics T90s with dragonfly v1.2 used both as a DAC and amp. The one thing I'm wondering is that will the df function properly as a DAC or will it be a bottleneck in this setup? 
  
 p.s I already started a discussion in the T90s thread but I think this is the proper place to continue as I'm leaning towards the Lyr 2.. or not? :/


----------



## DavidA

richsvt said:


> I know this may be a somewhat simple question, but as I have the original Modi/Magni, I am looking to get into some serious tube action and from what I have read, the Lyr 2 may just fit the bill. Would I see significant SQ improvement stepping up to the Bifrost over the Modi? Using a MBP running mostly FLAC/ALAC and using my HD700s and HE400i as phones. Love the M&M stack, just need to explore tubes and get into some rolling to adjust the signature. Lyr 2 seems like a good place to start. Maybe get the Bifrost after...?


 
 I have the original M/M stack, Bifrost uber/Lyr2/Asgard2 but for the HE-400i and HD-700 I like the Project Ember and UD-301 better.  Reason I like the Ember better is that it has adjustable output impedance to better match different headphones and like the Lyr2 you can roll many different tubes, the Ember will roll tubes from many more different families of tube like 12XXX, 6SN7, and a few others that I have not tried yet and only needing one so having to find match pairs is not needed.
 I would keep the original modi and try the Ember first, I personally haven't tried this combo but I think it would work quite well as the modi is a pretty good DAC, going to the Bifrost was not a "night and day" upgrade but with better equipment in the chain you will notice the difference between the Modi and Bifrost.
 You might also want to look at the other amps from Garage 1217 as most have adjustable output impedance and are quite affordable IMO for what you get.


----------



## Richsvt

Thanks, I'll look into your suggestions...


----------



## SearchOfSub

Anyone compare Lyr 2 with Bada PH-12?


----------



## reddog

Arg for the first time, I am having a hard time removing my tubes from the lyr2. My fingers are so numb, I actually can not feel the tubes. I might have to buy a tube remover. Damn my hurt back. Can anyone suggest a good tube remover. Thanks hope everyone has a goo morning jamming out, may your cans put a big old smile on your face.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> Arg for the first time, I am having a hard time removing my tubes from the lyr2. My fingers are so numb, I actually can not feel the tubes. I might have to buy a tube remover. Damn my hurt back. Can anyone suggest a good tube remover. Thanks hope everyone has a goo morning jamming out, may your cans put a big old smile on your face.


 
 wrap some saran wrap around the glass to give your fingers grip on the glass. it's a trick from e-cig users who have really hard to open glass tanks or accidentally jammed their gear. you can seriously move anything glass no matter how tightly stuck with just some saran wrap because typically the issue is just that it is hard to get enough friction on the glass for movement.


----------



## reddog

Thanks Money I appreciate the tip. I hope you have a good weekend jamming out.


----------



## Akemi Homura

Hello everyone. I'm trying to find an amp that should be able to crank up the volume of a Hifiman HE-4 (A low impeadence headphone with 86db of effeciency) and I was planning to get the vallhalas but after reading other peoples advises that it isn't powerfull enough to power th HE-4, I'm starting to turn my mind to the Lyrs. However, since I'm living in east Asia, I couldn't get my hands on any of schiit products. I'm trying to save much money as possible so I want to know if the gap between the Lyr 1 and the Lyr 2 is too significant. Thank You.


----------



## yding202

Sorry if this has been answered already, but there's 91 pages of replies that I can't read through.  
  
 Would getting a Lyr 2 be overkill for Oppo PM-3 or Audeze EL8's?  Both of these headphones have pretty low impedances, so they shouldn't require a whole lot of power.  Would I be better off just getting something cheaper like Magni 2 Uber, Asgard 2, or Valhalla 2?


----------



## DavidA

akemi homura said:


> Hello everyone. I'm trying to find an amp that should be able to crank up the volume of a Hifiman HE-4 (A low impeadence headphone with 86db of effeciency) and I was planning to get the vallhalas but after reading other peoples advises that it isn't powerfull enough to power th HE-4, I'm starting to turn my mind to the Lyrs. However, since I'm living in east Asia, I couldn't get my hands on any of schiit products. I'm trying to save much money as possible so I want to know if the gap between the Lyr 1 and the Lyr 2 is too significant. Thank You.


 
 There is very little difference between Lyr and Lyr2, Lyr2 is more flexible due to gain adjustment but Lyr2 will accept more different tubes.
  


yding202 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already, but there's 91 pages of replies that I can't read through.
> 
> Would getting a Lyr 2 be overkill for Oppo PM-3 or Audeze EL8's?  Both of these headphones have pretty low impedances, so they shouldn't require a whole lot of power.  Would I be better off just getting something cheaper like Magni 2 Uber, Asgard 2, or Valhalla 2?


 
 Lyr2 is over kill for PM-3 and EL8.  I wouldn't a amp for either of these headphone, but that is just me.


----------



## yding202

davida said:


> Lyr2 is over kill for PM-3 and EL8.  I wouldn't a amp for either of these headphone, but that is just me.


 
 Would you just run it straight from the DAC?  Computer -> DAC -> Headphone?
  
 Or are you saying skip the DAC/Amp altogether?


----------



## DavidA

yding202 said:


> Would you just run it straight from the DAC?  Computer -> DAC -> Headphone?
> 
> Or are you saying skip the DAC/Amp altogether?


 
 Tried the PM-3 with my Fiio X3 and it was pretty good sounding but this was a few weeks ago when I was in Japan.  I have the EL8-open and they are good out of my Galaxy S5 or Fiio X3/X3ii.


----------



## lukeap69

The bass of the PM-3 when amped by Lyr 2 with OG tubes is amazing. I have mentioned that on the PM-3 impressions thread many moons ago. I don't know what it will do for the EL8 though.


----------



## yding202

lukeap69 said:


> The bass of the PM-3 when amped by Lyr 2 with OG tubes is amazing. I have mentioned that on the PM-3 impressions thread many moons ago. I don't know what it will do for the EL8 though.


 
  
 What do you mean by OG tubes?  Did you compare the Lyr 2 with other amps?  Was the upgrade worth it?


----------



## lukeap69

yding202 said:


> What do you mean by OG tubes?  Did you compare the Lyr 2 with other amps?  Was the upgrade worth it?




Amperex Orange Globe tubes.

IMO, yes the upgrade is worth it. I have paired PM-3 with Rok, DAP Hidizs AP100 and Theorem 720. I did not do any A/Bing though.


----------



## DavidA

lukeap69 said:


> The bass of the PM-3 when amped by Lyr 2 with OG tubes is amazing. I have mentioned that on the PM-3 impressions thread many moons ago. I don't know what it will do for the EL8 though.


 

 The EL8 does not respond much to any upgrades in equipment from my experience with it and a few others who have tried it agree with that.  It seems to be designed to work with portable devices like phones and DAPs.


----------



## mrip541

I've enjoyed the bass extension and tight impact the lyr 2 provides to my full sized headphones, but the stock tubes created too much hiss through my UE 18pro ciem. I recently purchased the LISST tubes which dropped this hiss with my ciems on low gain to just barely audible with no music playing, and completely silent with audio. So now I can use my ciems with the Lyr 2, but the additional bass the Lyr added to my 18 pros is simply too much. It's not just more bass, but it's loose, which confuses me. It's not loose with any of my full sized cans, but with my ciems the amp makes them feel slow and wooly. The Lyr has so much power and such a low output impedance I have no idea why this happens. Thoughts?
  
 EDIT - I think the issue is with the response of the 18s/tubes rather than the amp.


----------



## Mark-sf

I am running my Lyr 2 with tubes and can use my Westone W40's which are 3db more sensitive than your UE18pro's without any audible hiss and no music playing. I don't know which tubes you were using before the LISST but you should be able to achieve silence.


----------



## Matro5

as a quick test, I decided to try my Lyr 2 as a preamp tonight for the first time. Sounds great via Tidal with all kinds of music.
  
 Thanks to all on this thread who reminded me of this capability. 
  
 This begs the question, of course...when will Schiit release its stereo amp and remote?


----------



## nc42acc

Installed a pair of Russian 6H23 EB. Much smoother with better resolution than the stock tubes listening through HD800s. New to headphones, I am addicted.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Hola Lyr 2 peoples!

Question to people with IEMs: Could you please comment on any experience you've had using IEMs with the Lyr 2, versus the Asgard 2? I have rather resolving IEMs, and my source will be the Gungnir Multibit. A Lyr 2 would be nice for an eventual HE-560 purchase, and I don't mind shelling out a little extra for the Lyr 2 and some good Telefunken Platinums, but perhaps this would be overkill, and I don't want an overly coloured sound. Would detail retrieval on the Asgard 2 pale in comparison?


----------



## Mark-sf

There is no reason IEMs would be more forgiving or colored than OTH cans, I have Westone 40's and Phonak PFE232's and both work fine on the Lyr 2 with the proper tubes to give you the sound signature you desire. Both also sound significantly more detailed and dimensional than on the Asgard2 that I evaluated.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

turdski said:


> Hola Lyr 2 peoples!
> 
> Question to people with IEMs: Could you please comment on any experience you've had using IEMs with the Lyr 2, versus the Asgard 2? I have rather resolving IEMs, and my source will be the Gungnir Multibit. A Lyr 2 would be nice for an eventual HE-560 purchase, and I don't mind shelling out a little extra for the Lyr 2 and some good Telefunken Platinums, but perhaps this would be overkill, and I don't want an overly coloured sound. Would detail retrieval on the Asgard 2 pale in comparison?





 x
  
 The major distinction of the Lyr 2 vs. the Lyr original is that the Lyr 2 has TWO (2) settings for output gain, with the new one, low gain, being added especially for IEMs because the higher gain setting of the original Lyr led to a higher noise floor in efficient IEMs.
  
 I would start investigating this question by comparing the output gain specifications for the Lyr 2 vs. the Asgard on the schiit.com site.  Does the Asgard have two gain settings?  If not, how close is its gain to that of the Lyr 2 low gain setting?


----------



## ToddRaymond

Thanks very much @Mark-sf, that's helpful!

Kayandjohn, I'm well aware of the specs of the original Lyr and Asgard, as well as the second iterations of those amps. I am just looking for individuals who have had experience with IEMs with the Lyr *2* versus any other Schiit single-ended amp (for that matter), namely the Asgard *2*. I'm hoping hiss or tube microphonics wouldn't be an issue, but would be willing to pay for better detail and and soundstaging, etc.

Looks like another trip to the Headphone Bar is in order....


----------



## ruthieandjohn

turdski said:


> Thanks very much @Mark-sf, that's helpful!
> 
> Kayandjohn, I'm well aware of the specs of the original Lyr and Asgard, as well as the second iterations of those amps. I am just looking for individuals who have had experience with IEMs with the Lyr *2* versus any other Schiit single-ended amp (for that matter), namely the Asgard *2*. I'm hoping hiss or tube microphonics wouldn't be an issue, but would be willing to pay for better detail and and soundstaging, etc.
> 
> Looks like another trip to the Headphone Bar is in order....


 
 Great... you know it better than I do, because while I have (and love) a Lyr 2, I don't know anything about the Asgard.  Good luck!


----------



## sling5s

turdski said:


> Hola Lyr 2 peoples!
> 
> Question to people with IEMs: Could you please comment on any experience you've had using IEMs with the Lyr 2, versus the Asgard 2? I have rather resolving IEMs, and my source will be the Gungnir Multibit. A Lyr 2 would be nice for an eventual HE-560 purchase, and I don't mind shelling out a little extra for the Lyr 2 and some good Telefunken Platinums, but perhaps this would be overkill, and I don't want an overly coloured sound. Would detail retrieval on the Asgard 2 pale in comparison?


 

 There's too much bass in the Lyr and Lyr 2 for IEMs. Meaning it overwhelms the bass frequency in IEMs to the point that unless you're a bass head, you going to dislike it.
 At least that's been my experience with JH13pro.
 I even tried the Lisst (solid state tubes) to see if that would work.  It did not. I used the have the Asgard 1 (not 2) and it worked great with my JH13pro.


----------



## ToddRaymond

sling5s said:


> There's too much bass in the Lyr and Lyr 2 for IEMs. Meaning it overwhelms the bass frequency in IEMs to the point that unless you're a bass head, you going to dislike it.
> At least that's been my experience with JH13pro.
> I even tried the Lisst (solid state tubes) to see if that would work.  It did not. I used the have the Asgard 1 (not 2) and it worked great with my JH13pro.




Hmm, I say. Thanks for that! I've even heard the JH13s, so that happens to be extra helpful. I guess it's Asgard for now.


----------



## XSAMURAI

hi
  
 i decided to buy tube amp for Senn HD700 , Beyer DT990 250 ohm , and i'm stuck between Lyr 2 + Schiit LISTS Tubes Or Valhalla 2 , anybody can help me for better result which one i have to chose ? and upgrade my dac to Modi 2 Uber
  
 and i want use with my iem too , like westone um pro 50 , but priority with hd700
  
 in future maybe i buy planar magnetic headphone and run with one of those tube amp
 right now im using Schiit Magni 2 Uber + Modi


----------



## Oklahoma

xsamurai said:


> hi
> 
> i decided to buy tube amp for Senn HD700 , Beyer DT990 250 ohm , and i'm stuck between Lyr 2 + Schiit LISTS Tubes Or Valhalla 2 , anybody can help me for better result which one i have to chose ? and upgrade my dac to Modi 2 Uber
> 
> ...




As a whole I believe the Valhalla 2 is more suited for the hd700 but will work with iems. If you are looking to add planars later I would go with the Lyr 2 because it will have the power to run the planars where the Valhalla 2 won't.


----------



## yding202

xsamurai said:


> hi
> 
> i decided to buy tube amp for Senn HD700 , Beyer DT990 250 ohm , and i'm stuck between Lyr 2 + Schiit LISTS Tubes Or Valhalla 2 , anybody can help me for better result which one i have to chose ? and upgrade my dac to Modi 2 Uber
> 
> ...


 
 If you're looking for a tube amp, why would you get the LISST tubes?  They would turn your tube amp into a solid state.


----------



## XSAMURAI

yding202 said:


> If you're looking for a tube amp, why would you get the LISST tubes?  They would turn your tube amp into a solid state.


 
 yes i know but not bad to have good solid state amp beside tube and using for many range of headphone , after purchasing lyr 2 i want sell my magni 2 uber so i need ss amp anyway
  
  


oklahoma said:


> As a whole I believe the Valhalla 2 is more suited for the hd700 but will work with iems. If you are looking to add planars later I would go with the Lyr 2 because it will have the power to run the planars where the Valhalla 2 won't.


 
 thanks


----------



## DavidA

xsamurai said:


> hi
> 
> i decided to buy tube amp for Senn HD700 , Beyer DT990 250 ohm , and i'm stuck between Lyr 2 + Schiit LISTS Tubes Or Valhalla 2 , anybody can help me for better result which one i have to chose ? and upgrade my dac to Modi 2 Uber
> 
> ...


 
 If you can only get one amp I would suggest a Project Ember II.  You can adjust the output impedance/resistance which makes it very flexible at driving many different headphones, the input gain can be changed, and you can roll many different tubes.
  
 I have a Lyr2 which works well with my HE-400/400i/560, LCD-2.  With the DT-990 its not a very good pairing, way to bright.
  
 For the HD-700 the Ember seem to work the best, also great with K7XX, TH-600, SRH-1840, RS2e, and the SennGrados that I've built.
  
 For the DT-990 I like the BH Crack the best, also great with HD-600/650/800, and T1.
  
 I don't like IEM so I don't know how well these are with the above amps.


----------



## Mark-sf

sling5s said:


> There's too much bass in the Lyr and Lyr 2 for IEMs. Meaning it overwhelms the bass frequency in IEMs to the point that unless you're a bass head, you going to dislike it.
> At least that's been my experience with JH13pro.
> I even tried the Lisst (solid state tubes) to see if that would work.  It did not. I used the have the Asgard 1 (not 2) and it worked great with my JH13pro.


 

 I am afraid your bass issue is not one I have experienced at all with my IEMs which include the PFE-232 and Westone 40. The Lyr was totally inappropriate for most IEMs due to the high gain and unregulated heaters. However the Lyr 2 changes that completely and even with the stock tubes it is quite neutral though without the full detail of higher performance glass. I would not hesitate in recommending it to anyone looking for an all-around amp that works equally well with IEMs and full size cans.


----------



## greenpsycho

Just wanted to share an interesting experience with my Lyr2 (stock tubes): I was having all sorts of hiss and hums coming from it, at both gain levels, at most sound levels (I have pretty sensitive hearing, so it drove me crazy trying to figure out where it was coming from). Once I determined it was the actual Lyr2, I figured it must be a power issue, so picked up one of emotiva's cmx-2's (currently on sale for $80). Don't know if it was a ground loop issue or what, but it cut out all the background garbage.
  
 Now, I only get the slightest of hums if I crank my lyr volume level to max (and nothing is coming from the source), and even then, its more of a constant level, and doesn't have the weird sounds that were coming out before. Color me happy


----------



## toolio

greenpsycho said:


> Just wanted to share an interesting experience with my Lyr2 (stock tubes): I was having all sorts of hiss and hums coming from it, at both gain levels, at most sound levels (I have pretty sensitive hearing, so it drove me crazy trying to figure out where it was coming from). Once I determined it was the actual Lyr2, I figured it must be a power issue, so picked up one of emotiva's cmx-2's (currently on sale for $80). Don't know if it was a ground loop issue or what, but it cut out all the background garbage.
> 
> Now, I only get the slightest of hums if I crank my lyr volume level to max (and nothing is coming from the source), and even then, its more of a constant level, and doesn't have the weird sounds that were coming out before. Color me happy




I purchased an original Lyr a couple of years ago and had all kinds of problems with intermittent hissing. I sent the unit back, got a replacement, and never heard hissing again. Like many people I can produce some mild hum at very high volume settings with nothing from a source. I gather this is to be expected. And, of course, I would never listen to anything at that volume, anyway.


----------



## Richsvt

I just purchased the Lyr 2 last night and am anxiously awaiting it arrival. I can't wait to start some rolling. Will need to research the ones I expect certain signatures. I know, it's a slippery slope but I'm diving head first down it...


----------



## ruthieandjohn

richsvt said:


> I just purchased the Lyr 2 last night and am anxiously awaiting it arrival. I can't wait to start some rolling. Will need to research the ones I expect certain signatures. I know, it's a slippery slope but I'm diving head first down it...


 
 There are at least two threads about Lyr tube rolling... *here* is the most recent one.


----------



## bccass

greenpsycho said:


> Just wanted to share an interesting experience with my Lyr2 (stock tubes): I was having all sorts of hiss and hums coming from it, at both gain levels, at most sound levels (I have pretty sensitive hearing, so it drove me crazy trying to figure out where it was coming from). Once I determined it was the actual Lyr2, I figured it must be a power issue, so picked up one of emotiva's cmx-2's (currently on sale for $80). Don't know if it was a ground loop issue or what, but it cut out all the background garbage.
> 
> Now, I only get the slightest of hums if I crank my lyr volume level to max (and nothing is coming from the source), and even then, its more of a constant level, and doesn't have the weird sounds that were coming out before. Color me happy


 
  
 I had some hiss and hum in mine, but it was very quiet.  Quiet enough that I didn't notice it until I got quieter tubes.  Swapping to the Valvo's, it went from me thinking the air was running all the time when I had headphones on to being DEAD silent.  Oh well, these tubes sound nicer, and they are quieter.  No real reason to run the stock ones again, so they are going in the box.


----------



## yding202

greenpsycho said:


> Just wanted to share an interesting experience with my Lyr2 (stock tubes): I was having all sorts of hiss and hums coming from it, at both gain levels, at most sound levels (I have pretty sensitive hearing, so it drove me crazy trying to figure out where it was coming from). Once I determined it was the actual Lyr2, I figured it must be a power issue, so picked up one of emotiva's cmx-2's (currently on sale for $80). Don't know if it was a ground loop issue or what, but it cut out all the background garbage.
> 
> Now, I only get the slightest of hums if I crank my lyr volume level to max (and nothing is coming from the source), and even then, its more of a constant level, and doesn't have the weird sounds that were coming out before. Color me happy




Super interesting. I had some staticky noise from my Lyr2 with stock tubes but I assumed that it was due to my tubes because it went away after I swapped to the Voskhods. Maybe I should try this CMX2 as well.


----------



## sling5s

I hate to let them go but if anyone is interested.
 Almost new Lyr 2 for $299 (without stock tubes) Selling 74 reflectors also. 
 Sorry for the plug but want to let someone who is looking for one but can't afford it to have a chance at a good deal.


----------



## SearchOfSub

sling5s said:


> I hate to let them go but if anyone is interested.
> Almost new Lyr 2 for $299 (without stock tubes) Selling 74 reflectors also.
> Sorry for the plug but want to let someone who is looking for one but can't afford it to have a chance at a good deal.





best deal I've seen on lyr2. Goodluck with sale


----------



## B-60

Hi all, just joined the head-fi and I would like to contribute to this big community.
 I am not a new to headphones and hi-fi systems and would like to share this knowledge with you all and exchange point of view.
 Please excuse my Polinglish (Polish and English) and willing to be corrected time to time, lets have some fun here!
 I am getting Lyr 2 soon and will be using it with HE-560.
 I have a very nice pair of Bugle Boys in my small tube stash and can not wait to try them in the Lyr2.
 Will be posting some of my first impressions soon.
 Cheers
  
 Jacek


----------



## ruthieandjohn

b-60 said:


> Hi all, just joined the head-fi and I would like to contribute to this big community.
> I am not a new to headphones and hi-fi systems and would like to share this knowledge with you all and exchange point of view.
> Please excuse my Polinglish (Polish and English) and willing to be corrected time to time, lets have some fun here!
> I am getting Lyr 2 soon and will be using it with HE-560.
> ...


 
 Welcome!  I too have the Schiit Lyr 2, using it with my Grado headphones.  Never tried enhanced tubes like the Bugle Boy, so I'd be interested how you find them as compared to the tubes they come with.  Thanks!


----------



## B-60

Thank you, will do!
 Lyr 2 will arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday.
 What grado are you using with the lyr2?
 I just sold my 325e's and I know at one pint I will buy them again.
 I did addition the RS2e and GS1000e and to me the 325e was the most musical of them all.Just to add to this my listening was done direct from my Sony D-EJ01 CD player, just nice!


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## Alchemist007

Anyone used a Lyr 2 or other Schiit products with a Fidelio X1 able to give their feedback/preference?


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## DavidA

alchemist007 said:


> Anyone used a Lyr 2 or other Schiit products with a Fidelio X1 able to give their feedback/preference?


 
 It will work but the Fidelio X1 is very easy to drive so even without the Lyr2 they sound great.  I actually like the headphone output of the UD-301 to drive the X1 since its a little on the bright side and gives the X1 a little more sparkle which I like.  Also have a Asgard2 and Magni but like the Lyr2 they are really not needed for the X1.


----------



## watchnerd

Was looking in the review section and found reviews for the Lyr (1), Asgard 2, etc.  But no reviews for the Lyr 2.
  
 Am I looking in the wrong place, or (even after 94 pages of comments) has nobody posted a review yet?


----------



## toolio

watchnerd said:


> Was looking in the review section and found reviews for the Lyr (1), Asgard 2, etc.  But no reviews for the Lyr 2.
> 
> Am I looking in the wrong place, or (even after 94 pages of comments) has nobody posted a review yet?




I am an owner of an original Lyr. I don't know about reviews specific to the Lyr 2, but I've certainly seen many comments in many discussions about the differences between the two versions and comments on various aspects of the Lyr 2. I think by searching the forums you will probably find whatever information and impressions you require about the Lyr 2.


----------



## watchnerd

toolio said:


> I am an owner of an original Lyr. I don't know about reviews specific to the Lyr 2, but I've certainly seen many comments in many discussions about the differences between the two versions and comments on various aspects of the Lyr 2. I think by searching the forums you will probably find whatever information and impressions you require about the Lyr 2.


 
  
 Yes, I can. But it's interesting that the Asgard 1 has 10 reviews, the Asgard 2 has 9 reviews, Lyr 1 has 8 reviews, and Lyr 2 has 0 reviews.


----------



## Mr Rick

watchnerd said:


> Yes, I can. But it's interesting that the Asgard 1 has 10 reviews, the Asgard 2 has 9 reviews, Lyr 1 has 8 reviews, and Lyr 2 has 0 reviews.


 
 Any review of the Lyr 1 will relate well to the Lyr 2.
  
 Here is an explanation of the differences as outlined by Schiit.
  
 http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2


----------



## watchnerd

mr rick said:


> Any review of the Lyr 1 will relate well to the Lyr 2.
> 
> Here is an explanation of the differences as outlined by Schiit.
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2


 
  
 Yes, and Schiit says:
  
 "A lot of things. First, a regulated 180V power supply for the tube stage, as well as separate regulated supplies for the current sources and DC servo. This allows us to offer a significantly lower noise floor than the original Lyr. Second, regulated supplies for DC heaters. Again, lower noise floor. A refined Dynamically Adaptive output stage that reduces high frequency distortion. And a new layout that allows for more optimized grounding"
  
 Presumably, those changes have some impact on the sound.
  
 The Asgard 2 fans seem to be eager to write reviews to tell everyone their experiences (and to do it separately from the Asgard 1).  It sure would be helpful if some of the Lyr2 owners did the same.  Maybe it's a numbers issue; perhaps there aren't as many Lyr 2 owners and thus not as many reviewers.
  
 If end up buying one, I'll certainly post a review.


----------



## toolio

watchnerd said:


> Yes, I can. But it's interesting that the Asgard 1 has 10 reviews, the Asgard 2 has 9 reviews, Lyr 1 has 8 reviews, and Lyr 2 has 0 reviews.


 
 I suspect it is because sonically there is not a lot of difference between the two. Among other things the Lyr 2 added a switch for better use with a wider range of headphones (notably IEMs) and a few other tweaks. I don't own one, but I gather that the sound is similar.


----------



## reddog

I will write a review on the lyr 2 sometime in the next few days.


----------



## watchnerd

reddog said:


> I will write a review on the lyr 2 sometime in the next few days.


 
  
 Awesome!
  
 By the way, since most people seem to think that the stock tubes are not worth keeping, I was just thinking of ordering mine with the LISST only.  Sensible course of action?


----------



## Richsvt

I just got the Lyr 2 a short while ago. While the stock tubes are not the best, they certainly are not horrible. Getting just the LISSTs defeats the purpose of getting a tube amp. There are many tubes out on the market to choose from and I am just getting into tube rolling to see what works best with the gear I have. To me, that is part of the fun, seeking what works and trying different signatures. Before giving up on the stock ones, I would suggest at least trying them out to convince yourself that they sound bad...you may be surprised.


----------



## Mr Rick

watchnerd said:


> Awesome!
> 
> By the way, since most people seem to think that the stock tubes are not worth keeping, I was just thinking of ordering mine with the LISST only.  Sensible course of action?


 
  
 That's not true at all. Do you really think Schiit would sell a product with tubes that make it sound ..........Schitty !!


----------



## vapman

If "why would a company include sub-par components in their products?" wasn't a necessary question, there would be a lot less to talk about when it comes to Hi-Fi audio.
  
 Not saying the stock tubes are "schitty" - never heard the Lyr 2 - but they can't be guaranteed to be good simply because they're the stock ones!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I have the LYR2 and love it. I wrote a review of sorts when I compared its performance to the Joseph Grado HPA-1, the CEntrance M8, the HiFiMAN EF-5, and EF-6 in driving the HiFiMAN HE-1000 headphones. See the link mentioning the HE-1000 in my signature.


----------



## watchnerd

richsvt said:


> I just got the Lyr 2 a short while ago. While the stock tubes are not the best, they certainly are not horrible. Getting just the LISSTs defeats the purpose of getting a tube amp. There are many tubes out on the market to choose from and I am just getting into tube rolling to see what works best with the gear I have. To me, that is part of the fun, seeking what works and trying different signatures. Before giving up on the stock ones, I would suggest at least trying them out to convince yourself that they sound bad...you may be surprised.


 
  
 Oh I didn't mean to imply I wouldn't use tubes.  But why pay the extra $20 (if one is getting LISST) for the stock tubes when I can take that $20 and apply it to something better?
  
 Also, I've done a lot of tube rolling and have some JJ ECC88 tubes lying around as starters.


----------



## watchnerd

mr rick said:


> That's not true at all. Do you really think Schiit would sell a product with tubes that make it sound ..........Schitty !!


 
  
 All the tube products I own come with 'starter' tubes because it would be crazy for the manufacturer to try to pick a more esoteric tube set that drives up the cost and may not be widely available.
  
 Schiit guys might think some NOS tubes sound awesome in the Lyr 2, but it's not feasible to include them for price and availability reasons.


----------



## toolio

watchnerd said:


> Awesome!
> 
> By the way, since most people seem to think that the stock tubes are not worth keeping, I was just thinking of ordering mine with the LISST only.  Sensible course of action?


 
 Not worth keeping? I am perfectly happy with the stock tubes in my original Lyr. That isn't to say I might not like something better, but since I'm not about to become a tube roller I have no complaints.


----------



## reddog

watchnerd said:


> Awesome!
> 
> By the way, since most people seem to think that the stock tubes are not worth keeping, I was just thinking of ordering mine with the LISST only.  Sensible course of action?



Yes I would get the Lyr 2 with the LISST tubes, and then find whatever NOS tube intrigues you. I prefer NOS Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes or the Genalex Gold Lions. Good luck with your Lyr 2, its a great amp for the money.


----------



## Richsvt

Watchnerd, 
 Many apologies, I did not get the gist of your post. Glad to hear that you'll be rolling. The JJs are not bad either, a little brighter at first listen (need more burn-in time) but I agree with reddog that the Gold Lions are very nice.


----------



## Mr Rick

vapman said:


> If "why would a company include sub-par components in their products?" wasn't a necessary question, there would be a lot less to talk about when it comes to Hi-Fi audio.
> 
> Not saying the stock tubes are "schitty" - never heard the Lyr 2 - but they can't be guaranteed to be good simply because they're the stock ones!


 
 Schiit test their Lyr amps with the tubes they install.  When you replace the stock tubes with an unknown quantity, you do so at your own risk. You might be able to tell I'm not fond of "tube rolling". Just another way to get us naive HeadFiers to part with our hard earned money.


----------



## reddog

mr rick said:


> Schiit test their Lyr amps with the tubes they install.  When you replace the stock tubes with an unknown quantity, you do so at your own risk. You might be able to tell I'm not fond of "tube rolling". Just another way to get us naive HeadFiers to part with our hard earned money.



I feel the stock tubes sound very nice after 250 hours of burn time. I only use the LISST tubes, when I want to burn in a pair of headphones.


----------



## watchnerd

mr rick said:


> Schiit test their Lyr amps with the tubes they install.  When you replace the stock tubes with an unknown quantity, you do so at your own risk. You might be able to tell I'm not fond of "tube rolling". Just another way to get us naive HeadFiers to part with our hard earned money.


 
  
 Yep, definitely at my own risk. And it can also get stupid expensive if one doesn't practice some restraint.  Not to mention neurotic audiophilia nervosa as one tries to decide if you prefer tube A or tube B across wide swaths of music and headphones.  
  
 However, having gone through it before on other tubed gear, I'm not afraid of going off the deep end.  Plus the LISST option provides an intriguing baseline that is unique as far as I know (i.e. "Do I like this tube better than the solid state option?").
  
 That being said, I don't know if tube rolling is that much nuttier than accumulating a large collection of cans.


----------



## Mr Rick

watchnerd said:


> Yep, definitely at my own risk. And it can also get stupid expensive if one doesn't practice some restraint.  Not to mention neurotic audiophilia nervosa as one tries to decide if you prefer tube A or tube B across wide swaths of music and headphones.
> 
> However, having gone through it before on other tubed gear, I'm not afraid of going off the deep end.  Plus the LISST option provides an intriguing baseline that is unique as far as I know (i.e. "Do I like this tube better than the solid state option?").
> 
> That being said, I don't know if tube rolling is that much nuttier than accumulating a large collection of cans.


 
 Touche !!  But at least I can hear the differences in headphones.


----------



## watchnerd

mr rick said:


> Touche !!  But at least I can hear the differences in headphones.


 
  
 That's the crazy part about tube rolling.  Some differences are obvious and objective (microphonics, noise floor), some are obvious but subjective, some are subtle and subjective, and the worst kind are just total mindf**kery.


----------



## HPiper

I was wondering if anyone had the chance to compare the Lyr 2 with the older Lyr 1 and if so, were the differences easily noticed or were they very subtle? I am thinking of maybe upgrading from my current Lyr 1 to a Lyr 2 but only if it results in a fairly large improvement in sound.


----------



## B-60

hpiper said:


> I was wondering if anyone had the chance to compare the Lyr 2 with the older Lyr 1 and if so, were the differences easily noticed or were they very subtle? I am thinking of maybe upgrading from my current Lyr 1 to a Lyr 2 but only if it results in a fairly large improvement in sound.


 
 Hi there,
 I had original Lyr and driving HD600 with it,It was nice match but at that time I also had Decware CSP 2+ and that was allrrady better then original Lyr.
 I have LYR2 in my collection at this time and driving the HE-560 and from what I have remember about lyr the LYR 2 would be a nice upgrade for you.
 Top end is much more refined over the original lyr and quite more air and separation of instruments.I have bugle boys tube with large round halo getter in it at this moment and I am very happy with it!
 What headphones you use the most???
 Cheers
I have Lyre​


----------



## Nalor

A friend lent me a pair of LISST tubes to use for a weekend in my Lyr 2. (I actually lent him my Lyr 2 for a weekend, months back, and he ended up buy one.  ) I found there was nothing really special about them in the Lyr 2. Maybe thats why people consider them baseline. 
  
 I've been switching between National 6922 tubes and 6n23p 1974 Silver Shields for most of my listening.


----------



## Gimpinchair

I noticed a couple of others having an issue with low volume output. I, too, Am having the same problem with my Lyr 2. Has any solution been found for this issue? I'm using A Win 10 -> JRMC 20 - > Bifrost Uber -> Lyr 2 -> HE-400i rig; and like the others, I have my volume on the Lyr at 3:00 & JRMC @ 50%. All my source material is FLAC. At this level one would think that the volume would be deafening. Unfortunately, I can still hear, easily, ambient sounds in the room. 

If those who had this issue have found a solution, could you please share this with us?


----------



## watchnerd

I set a goal for myself that I wouldn't allow myself to buy a Lyr 2 until I finished reading this entire thread...
  
 [I'm currently on page 60]
  
 ...but now I'm wondering if I should just spring for a Mjolnir 2?
  
 All the benefits of Lyr 2, same tubes, a bit more power, and balanced.  Hmmmm.
  
 Plus it's named after Thor's hammer.
  
 Does anyone here own, or has owned, both the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 and can compare and contrast?


----------



## David Aldrich

I don't have a Lyr 2 but the Mjolnir 2 is more neutral and offers more detail. If you like low end thump the Lyr 2 is going to be a better choice, if you are using single ended headphone stick to the Lyr 2, going balanced and prefer neutrality and detail go with the Mjolnir 2.
  
 What headphones do you have?


----------



## watchnerd

david aldrich said:


> I don't have a Lyr 2 but the Mjolnir 2 is more neutral and offers more detail. If you like low end thump the Lyr 2 is going to be a better choice, if you are using single ended headphone stick to the Lyr 2, going balanced and prefer neutrality and detail go with the Mjolnir 2.
> 
> What headphones do you have?


 
  
 Right now, my main headphones are AKG 701s.  But I'm due for an upgrade. I've had these for years.


----------



## Hardwired

watchnerd said:


> I set a goal for myself that I wouldn't allow myself to buy a Lyr 2 until I finished reading this entire thread...
> 
> [I'm currently on page 60]
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have both. The Lyr 2/MB Bifrost are at work and the MJ 2/Gumby are at home. Both systems sound good, but listening to balanced cans is one step beyond. I think of the MJ as a balanced Lyr. Considering both the amp and DAC are different between the 2 systems and they are in separate places, I can't really compare the two. I just enjoy the music.
  
 The Lyr fits my desk at work where the MJ wouldn't, but the MJ works on my desk at home, so consider the space you have, if you want to buy balanced cables for any cans you own (and if you can even get balanced cables for some cans), and if you can afford the DAC that has to come along with the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Knowing what I know now, I would still get both. If I could only have one and had the money and the space, the MJ 2 is the way to go. Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## watchnerd

hardwired said:


> I have both. The Lyr 2/MB Bifrost are at work and the MJ 2/Gumby are at home. Both systems sound good, but listening to balanced cans is one step beyond. I think of the MJ as a balanced Lyr. Considering both the amp and DAC are different between the 2 systems and they are in separate places, I can't really compare the two. I just enjoy the music.
> 
> The Lyr fits my desk at work where the MJ wouldn't, but the MJ works on my desk at home, so consider the space you have, if you want to buy balanced cables for any cans you own (and if you can even get balanced cables for some cans), and if you can afford the DAC that has to come along with the amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.  Can you tell me which balanced cans you're using / have used with the Mjolnir 2?
  
 And now I have to also go read 60+ pages of Mjolnir 2 listening impressions...


----------



## Hardwired

watchnerd said:


> Thanks for the info.  Can you tell me which balanced cans you're using / have used with the Mjolnir 2?
> 
> And now I have to also go read 60+ pages of Mjolnir 2 listening impressions...


 
  
 The Ethers and Alpha Primes since they use the same cable. Both sound great but the Ethers are my go-to cans for sound quality and comfort. They just fade away and the music is a little cloud around your head. Did I apologize to your wallet yet?


----------



## Maconi

davida said:


> Lyr2 is over kill for PM-3 and EL8.  I wouldn't a amp for either of these headphone, but that is just me.




I don't know about the PM-3 but the EL-8 runs optimally just under 4W and can handle spikes up to 15W. IMO it could absolutely benefit from the pairing.



I have the EL-8C and upgrading from the HA-2 to the iDSD Micro (running on Turbo, using around 2W) made a massive difference to me (HA-2 would get terrible clipping with EQ, not so with the Micro).

If I could afford it I'd love to try a bigger amp with the EL-8. Short of the Lyr2 I don't know of many that can provide ~4W (to 30 Ohm) for around $500. The Grace m9xx, Liquid Carbon, Gustard H10, etc. are all weaker.


----------



## DavidA

@Maconi, if you check the EL8 thread many have also found them easy to drive without the need for an external amp, but most of those comments were for the open version so YMMV.  The EL8 was designed to be easy to drive from phones and DAPs, that was the market it was targeting.


----------



## Maconi

I can get the volume to a comfortable level easily straight from a device (like a cell phone). So in that regard it is super easy to drive. From my experience you need power to unlock the dynamics though (I have to use a -25dB preamp to keep the volume safe at ~1.5W but the sound is so much better).


----------



## reddog

hi i just did a small review on the lyr 2 http://www.head-fi.org/products/lyr-2-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14679


----------



## PinkyPowers

I'm really thinking about this amp. 

Does anyone use the preamp out? Is it good? It'll be used with my Emotiva Airmotiv s4.

I'm currently using the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 Plus. Both the headphone out and the tube preamp are great. But I'm curious about an upgrade. Eventually I'll get a new DAC, also. I won't be able to afford both at once, so the amp should come first, since it works with what I already have.


----------



## Hardwired

pinkypowers said:


> I'm really thinking about this amp.
> 
> Does anyone use the preamp out? Is it good? It'll be used with my Emotiva Airmotiv s4.
> 
> I'm currently using the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 Plus. Both the headphone out and the tube preamp are great. But I'm curious about an upgrade. Eventually I'll get a new DAC, also. I won't be able to afford both at once, so the amp should come first, since it works with what I already have.


 
  
 I use the preamp out to a receiver and speakers as much as I use the headphone amp. The sound is run through the tubes before the preamp so you get the tube magic through speakers as well. I can't compare it to your Maverick since I've never heard it but the Lyr 2 keeps me happy all day at work and I work in the telecom industry so that's saying a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Full disclosure: my system is the iBasso DX80 coaxial out into the Bifrost Multibit to the Lyr 2. From there it either runs into a Yamaha 2.1 receiver or to HiFiMan HE-560 headphones. Every link in the sound chain affects the final sound so YMMV but the Lyr 2 was good enough to convince me to get the Mjolnir 2. I'm a Schiit Head for sure.


----------



## watchnerd

Having now caught up on this entire thread, I now feel well-informed enough to purchase a Lyr 2.
  
 Except now I think what I really want is the Mjolnir 2.....


----------



## reddog

watchnerd said:


> Having now caught up on this entire thread, I now feel well-informed enough to purchase a Lyr 2.
> 
> Except now I think what I really want is the Mjolnir 2.....:basshead:



If you have some headphones that use a XLR jack then get a MJOLNIR 2, if all your headphones are SE then go for the Lyr2.


----------



## watchnerd

reddog said:


> If you have some headphones that use a XLR jack then get a MJOLNIR 2, if all your headphones are SE then go for the Lyr2.


 
  
 It's actually not quite as simple as that...my monitor speakers also use XLR.


----------



## David Aldrich

watchnerd said:


> It's actually not quite as simple as that...my monitor speakers also use XLR.




Sure it is, you can use RCA to XLR cables with your speakers at the same quality as native balanced. Most studio monitors don't contain differential amps anyways so single ended is as good as it gets.


----------



## reddog

Hmm I think I have been watching the Blues Brothers to much. Because I have this crazy inspired idea, would any one be interested in attending a head-fi meet on a cruise ship, say to Cuba and other Caribbean locations. I wonder what tubes can be found in Cuba. If people are interested, perhaps I can look into the details.


----------



## watchnerd

david aldrich said:


> Sure it is, you can use RCA to XLR cables with your speakers at the same quality as native balanced. Most studio monitors don't contain differential amps anyways so single ended is as good as it gets.


 
  
 Sure, but that's missing out on the noise rejection benefits of running balanced cables.  And it's not like the price spread between the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 is all that huge.


----------



## watchnerd

reddog said:


> Hmm I think I have been watching the Blues Brothers to much. Because I have this crazy inspired idea, would any one be interested in attending a head-fi meet on a cruise ship, say to Cuba and other Caribbean locations. I wonder what tubes can be found in Cuba. If people are interested, perhaps I can look into the details.


 
  
 My wife would never go for that.


----------



## David Aldrich

watchnerd said:


> Sure, but that's missing out on the noise rejection benefits of running balanced cables.  And it's not like the price spread between the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 is all that huge.


 

 This isn't live sound, the difference is not even measurable unless you put an antenna right on top of the signal cables.


----------



## watchnerd

david aldrich said:


> This isn't live sound, the difference is not even measurable unless you put an antenna right on top of the signal cables.


 
  
 I'm a volunteer recording engineer assistant for a local symphony. I have a mixing setup at home where I have projects that I have to work on.  And my wifi router is on the same desk as my DAW, not to mention NAS drives and the computer itself. It's better safe than sorry and I'd feel ashamed if some unaccounted for RFI got into the mix that others are relying on me for.  So far, I've had good luck using XLR (plus I already have the cables) and I don't see a reason to change a known good practice in my environment.


----------



## Nalor

Jus remember that for best quality of balanced signals, you need to have it through the entire system. For this case, to take advantage of balanced/XLR, it will work best with a balanced DAC.


----------



## watchnerd

nalor said:


> Jus remember that for best quality of balanced signals, you need to have it through the entire system. For this case, to take advantage of balanced/XLR, it will work best with a balanced DAC.


 
  
 Of course. The aged-but-still-going-strong-and-kind-of-ugly Benchmark DAC 1 I use right now has balanced outs.  Anything I eventually replace it with will also need them.


----------



## Nalor

Still, it gets you to where you need to be with balanced inputs. I have a Gungnir, but I use only the SE inputs with it right now, and very happy with it so far.


----------



## watchnerd

nalor said:


> Still, it gets you to where you need to be with balanced inputs. I have a Gungnir, but I use only the SE inputs with it right now, and very happy with it so far.


 
  
 I think the DAC 1 is still a reasonably solid DAC and does fine driving active monitors, too, but the headphone amp inside is pretty 'meh'.  But to truly upgrade, I'd need to move to something like a Mjolnir + Gungnir combo, and even then I'm not sure how much better the Gungnir is than the DAC 1. My guess is that it's a bit better, but not hugely so.


----------



## Nalor

watchnerd said:


> I think the DAC 1 is still a reasonably solid DAC and does fine driving active monitors, too, but the headphone amp inside is pretty 'meh'.  But to truly upgrade, I'd need to move to something like a Mjolnir + Gungnir combo, and even then I'm not sure how much better the Gungnir is than the DAC 1. My guess is that it's a bit better, but not hugely so.


 
 Alas, I've not herd the DAC1 in person so I cannot give you a personal opinion. But I know for years it was considered a top notch DAC.
  
 Take your time, and enjoy each piece you add on your audio journey.


----------



## watchnerd

nalor said:


> Alas, I've not herd the DAC1 in person so I cannot give you a personal opinion. But I know for years it was considered a top notch DAC.
> 
> Take your time, and enjoy each piece you add on your audio journey.


 
  
 When / if they add USB Gen 3 to the Gungnir (which I believe just involves replacing the C-Media 6631A with the 6632 from the Yggy), then I'll know it's time to pull the trigger.


----------



## HPiper

b-60 said:


> Hi there,
> I had original Lyr and driving HD600 with it,It was nice match but at that time I also had Decware CSP 2+ and that was allrrady better then original Lyr.
> I have LYR2 in my collection at this time and driving the HE-560 and from what I have remember about lyr the LYR 2 would be a nice upgrade for you.
> Top end is much more refined over the original lyr and quite more air and separation of instruments.I have bugle boys tube with large round halo getter in it at this moment and I am very happy with it!
> ...


 
 I either listen to my Beyer T-1's or Sennheiser HD800's, Occasionally I will grab my HD650's as well, but usually one of the first two.


----------



## B-60

hpiper said:


> I either listen to my Beyer T-1's or Sennheiser HD800's, Occasionally I will grab my HD650's as well, but usually one of the first two.


 
 I would love to try T-1s second gen I would have the opportunity to listen to them when picking up my HEX in Toronto from Heaphoneshop.
 I will be also visiting my friend that have HD800 and  McIntosh MHA100 and naim DAC-V1.
 This will be interesting to see who will take the crown!!!!
 Will post some first impression on HEX forum.
 Cheers


----------



## Snuss

Has anyone listened to the Asgard 2 alongside the Lyr 2, or have enough memory of both to tell a significant difference?
  
 Of course the Lyr 2 has more power, but does it sound better in any notable ways over the Asgard 2?
  
 -S


----------



## Mr Rick

snuss said:


> Has anyone listened to the Asgard 2 alongside the Lyr 2, or have enough memory of both to tell a significant difference?
> 
> Of course the Lyr 2 has more power, but does it sound better in any notable ways over the Asgard 2?
> 
> -S


 
 I own an original Lyr and Asgard 2.  I hear no difference.


----------



## B-60

snuss said:


> Has anyone listened to the Asgard 2 alongside the Lyr 2, or have enough memory of both to tell a significant difference?
> 
> Of course the Lyr 2 has more power, but does it sound better in any notable ways over the Asgard 2?
> 
> -S


 
 I have both of them at this moment and they are both very good.The asgard2 is going to new home soon and I chose the LYR2 not for more power but for over better SQ.I found the good set of tubes dose much nicer job then the stock tubs and to my ears the LYR is just more musical with wider sound stage a bit faster presentation and fuller sound overall.I will not try to drive myself nuts with tube rolling and I know that any good amperex will do the trick!
 I hope that helps.
 Cheers


----------



## DavidA

snuss said:


> Has anyone listened to the Asgard 2 alongside the Lyr 2, or have enough memory of both to tell a significant difference?
> 
> Of course the Lyr 2 has more power, but does it sound better in any notable ways over the Asgard 2?
> 
> -S


 
 There is a difference but for me it has to do with which headphone is being used and its not a "WOW" or "significant" one, to me anyway.  Tubes used also will play a small part in how the Lyr2 pairs with a headphone and how it sounds different from the Asgard2.


----------



## CFGamescape

Just got my Lyr 2 in! I'm using the pre out on my FiiO E09K with E17 docked as the DAC until my Bifrost MB arrives. I have no impressions thus far except that it looks sweet on my desk.


----------



## oAmadeuso

reddog said:


> hi i just did a small review on the lyr 2 http://www.head-fi.org/products/lyr-2-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14679



Nice read, thanks.
On the knob indicator I use the screw hole as a tactile indicator that's 90 degrees anti clockwise to the mark.


----------



## Snuss

cfgamescape said:


> Just got my Lyr 2 in! I'm using the pre out on my FiiO E09K with E17 docked as the DAC until my Bifrost MB arrives. I have no impressions thus far except that it looks sweet on my desk.


 
 Please keep us updated!  Very interested in hearing your opinions versus the E09K once the Bifrost MB is in.


----------



## nojdrof

Hello all, I have sennheiser hd700 headphone and was going to purchase the Elise then ran into a friend who has the lyr2 and convinced me to look at it. From what I've read the lyr2 pairs well with just about any headphone. Have any of you used the lyr2 with the hd700s and is it a good match? Thanks in advance for any information.


----------



## DavidA

nojdrof said:


> Hello all, I have sennheiser hd700 headphone and was going to purchase the Elise then ran into a friend who has the lyr2 and convinced me to look at it. From what I've read the lyr2 pairs well with just about any headphone. Have any of you used the lyr2 with the hd700s and is it a good match? Thanks in advance for any information.


 
 HD-700 and Lyr2 will pair well, might want to get some tubes that are on the warmer side, like Bugle Boys or Mullards.
  
 I've only heard the Elise for a short time when I was at my friends house in Japan a few months ago and it was pretty good, for the HD-700 I think its better than the Lyr2, but with headphones of low z like planars, not as good as the Lyr2.


----------



## nojdrof

Thank you for the advise DavidA


----------



## BohanYe

is it worth it to upgrade from the lyr 1 to 2? I don't see the gain switch being useful as all my home use headphone are high impedance.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

As far as I know, the gain switch is the only difference. I have and love the LYR 2, but I use it with Grados, which benefit from the low gain switch position. Here is a bit more on differences: Here


----------



## DavidA

bohanye said:


> is it worth it to upgrade from the lyr 1 to 2? I don't see the gain switch being useful as all my home use headphone are high impedance.


 
 You might want to stick with the Lyr1, it can roll about twice as many tubes as the Lyr2 since you don't need the gain switch.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

if im running stuff like k701, hd600, hd650 and dt880(600ohms).
 is there a reason to choose lyr 2 over lyr 1?


----------



## Nalor

For those headphones, there probably is not a specific reason for you to get a Lyr2, as the Lyr1 works fine with those. (The Valhalla also would work with those headphones as well, since they are high impedance designs. )


----------



## EinZweiDrei

since valhalla 2 and lyr are about the same price.
 what reason would i choose one over the other.


----------



## Snuss

einzweidrei said:


> since valhalla 2 and lyr are about the same price.
> what reason would i choose one over the other.


 
 The Lyr 2 gives you the options of a hybrid tube/SS setup or you can go full SS with LISST "tubes."
  
 EDIT: Read that as "Lyr 2" and not "Lyr."  I'm not sure if the LISST tubes are compatible with the original Lyr???


----------



## DivergeUnify

einzweidrei said:


> since valhalla 2 and lyr are about the same price.
> 
> what reason would i choose one over the other.


 Lyr 2 has better flexibility with planars


----------



## EinZweiDrei

does schiit's products ever go on sale?


----------



## reddog

einzweidrei said:


> does schiit's products ever go on sale?



No never, sales never happen.


----------



## watchnerd

Just got my new Mjolnir 2 hooked up today and it sounds great.
  
 But...it doesn't mute the pre-amp outs when you put in a headphone like the Lyr 2 does.
  
 Crap.
  
 If it was just me that used the system, I wouldn't care that much (I'd just power off the speakers), but my wife uses that particular workstation set up, too.  Any complications for her are just tech support problems for me.
  
 I might have to send the MJ2 back and exchange it for a Lyr 2...


----------



## DWbirdseye

einzweidrei said:


> does schiit's products ever go on sale?



Schiit's 15 day return policy will encourage some to send their product back. Check their site frequently. Those will be discounted, as will discontinued models like the 1st generation Mjolnir.


----------



## Ttenu

Received a Lyr 2 today!
  
 Tested with OPPO BDP-105 as DAC. Compared to internal OPPO headamp. Stock tubes, no break-in. Ultrasone Signature Pro headphones.
  
 My thoughts from careful A/Bing:
  
 -Bass carries more weight (Noted on Emilie Autumn's "Goodnight, Sweet Ladies")
 -Mids have more "sparkle"
 -Airy soundscape, clear separation on heavy, complex sequences (Nightwish's "Planet Hell")
 -Low noise floor, no hiss at full volume
  
 Volume on Lyr at 11 o'clock comparable to OPPO internal volume at 70 (out of 100). Any louder than 12 on the Lyr hurts my ears. I can pump the OPPO to 90 before it hurts. Lyr 2 is powerful but we all knew that.
  
 I tried the Lyr 2 with the internal Macbook headphone output. Actually sounds great, though noticeably darker and muddier than the OPPO output.
  
 Now, I shall let this baby burn in and see what comes of it. Love it so far.


----------



## Ttenu

I've sinced retired my BDP-105 and have been using the Lyr 2 with a Wyrd/Modi Schtack.
  
 It's certainly more harsh, almost a live feel. More "fun" than the BDP-105. Forward. Like a party in my ears.


----------



## B-60

Just a quick update on PC and Siemens ecc88 tubes on LYR2 amp.
 Just my personal observations and I am not sure how many of you upgraded the original PC in your lyr2 but this is IT!
 This PC is here to stay and it is Furutech FP-Alpha-3 with Furutech F11-gold plugs, this is the best I have ever heard from Lyr2 amp.
 Sound stage went way back and separated instruments and more body to the music compare to FP-314Ag ,very nice!
 ECC 88 Siemens are in the LYR 2 at this moment got them yesterday and so far so good, very balanced tubes with sweet top and full mids.
 Will post some more later.


----------



## amoeba1126

I have two Bugle Boys that are the same model (12AT7, Holland D-Getter), but they have different graphics so I assume they are from different years even though they look the same inside. Is it safe to use them together in my Schitt Lyr 2? Thanks!


----------



## JohnBal

amoeba1126 said:


> I have two Bugle Boys that are the same model (12AT7, Holland D-Getter), but they have different graphics so I assume they are from different years even though they look the same inside. Is it safe to use them together in my Schitt Lyr 2? Thanks!


 
 The Lyr does not use 12at7 tubes. It uses the 6dj8 family of tubes. I would think it is not safe. No.


----------



## amoeba1126

Ok thanks! Time to sell the tubes then!


----------



## Soepkip

My Lyr 2 with Amperex OG is coming in on Monday.
 I am sooooooo excited!


----------



## lukeap69

soepkip said:


> My Lyr 2 with Amperex OG is coming in on Monday.
> I am sooooooo excited!




Congrats. That is the same as my combo.


----------



## flyingmonkey

New here and this is my first post, just set up my new Lyr 2 yesterday.
  
 My system is Pioneer XDP100R dap feeding a Chord Mojo into the Lyr 2 which is running a matched pair of Tesla E88CC valves from 1982. and into some sennheiser HD700.
  
 Still running in at the moment but first impressions are that it sounds nice and airey with nice detail and good controlled bass, wide sound stage and good midrange in fact it sounds not very tube like but good and really works with the HD700's.
  
 I upgraded from a Little dot 1+ which is running a Muses02 op amp and some 1969 Mullard 4010's with some AT MSR7's which is a  mellow sounding with very impressive vocals but a much more closed sound stage it is also fed from a Mojo.
  
 My question is what people would suggest around valves to improve the setup in the long run, I live in the UK.


----------



## oAmadeuso

flyingmonkey said:


> New here and this is my first post, just set up my new Lyr 2 yesterday.
> 
> My system is Pioneer XDP100R dap feeding a Chord Mojo into the Lyr 2 which is running a matched pair of Tesla E88CC valves from 1982. and into some sennheiser HD700.
> 
> ...


 
 This thread is filled with information and user experiences on most tubes out there and the Lyr2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers
  
 Tube rolling can be very addictive and your wallet may not thank you going down that path.
 Best tubes i've got are the ones in my sig that I bought off a guy here.
  
 It's all down to personal taste though so have a read.
  
 Also in the UK, be warned that shipping tubes from the US can get very expensive.
 Got stung for around 25 quid import duty a few times.
  
 Best prices can by found by eBay sniping at the last minute but there's some fakes on there.
 If you see a pair you like feel free to post on the thread above and people will certainly give their opinion of their quality and sound sound type.


----------



## DavidA

flyingmonkey said:


> New here and this is my first post, just set up my new Lyr 2 yesterday.
> 
> My system is Pioneer XDP100R dap feeding a Chord Mojo into the Lyr 2 which is running a matched pair of Tesla E88CC valves from 1982. and into some sennheiser HD700.
> 
> ...


 

 As the poster above stated it can get very addictive and your wallet will be much lighter.
  
 For the money Reflectors seem to be one of the better values I've found.  Vokshod Rockets are similar, Telefunkens are pricy but give a really dynamic sound, Mullards and Amperex are on the warmer side great for the HD-700 and Grados.
  
 PS: get some socket savers if you are going to be changing tubes a lot, Tube Monger has some good ones, pass on the really cheap ones, they can get noisy.


----------



## oAmadeuso

davida said:


> PS: get some socket savers if you are going to be changing tubes a lot, Tube Monger has some good ones, pass on the really cheap ones, they can get noisy.


 
 I've got a pair from Tube Monger but to be honest I didn't get on with them.
 Maybe in my head but I thought they were changing the sound and were coming half out of the socket when changing tubes. 
  
 Although they did make it easier to extract the tubes.
  
 According to Jason at Schiit they're not really needed for rolling in the Lyr
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/8220#post_12182044


----------



## flyingmonkey

Would you say that the Tesla are similar in character to Telefunken but less good


----------



## DavidA

oamadeuso said:


> I've got a pair from Tube Monger but to be honest I didn't get on with them.
> Maybe in my head but I thought they were changing the sound and were coming half out of the socket when changing tubes.
> 
> Although they did make it easier to extract the tubes.
> ...


 
 When I first used the socket savers they were half pulled out when I removed tubes but after changing tubes about 15-20 times they don't come out anymore.  Agree that you don't need them but it makes it easier to remove tubes, looks cooler seeing the glow, and runs cooler.
  
 Use some Deoxit on the tubes when you install in the socket saver, should make it easier to remove and prevent the socket saver from pulling out.
  
  


flyingmonkey said:


> Would you say that the Tesla are similar in character to Telefunken but less good


 
  
 The Tesla tubes that come with the Lyr2 are ok, neutral but lack dynamics and a little thin sounding.  Voskhod Rockets are a better buy IMO.


----------



## flyingmonkey

Mine came with some made in canada tubes so i bought the Tesla's as they seem to have a decent cost to performance ratio


----------



## DavidA

flyingmonkey said:


> Mine came with some made in canada tubes so i bought the Tesla's as they seem to have a decent cost to performance ratio


 

 If they work for you, I see no reason to change, hope you enjoy the Lyr2


----------



## flyingmonkey

davida said:


> If they work for you, I see no reason to change, hope you enjoy the Lyr2


 
 I will let it have a couple of hundred hours of burn in,and see if I would like to tweek the sound a bit.


----------



## 1ply

There is a review of the Lyr 2 at http://digitalaudiodirections.blogspot.com/2016/01/say-hello-to-bimby-aka-schiit-bifrost.html
  
 Peace,
 Rip


----------



## Snuss

1ply said:


> There is a review of the Lyr 2 at http://digitalaudiodirections.blogspot.com/2016/01/say-hello-to-bimby-aka-schiit-bifrost.html
> 
> Peace,
> Rip


 
 That's a review of the Bimby mate.  And I searched the blog for anything about the Lyr 2 but couldn't find it.
  
 Reposted the link to the Bimby impressions thread though.


----------



## 1ply

Sorry, My bad, I am sleep deprived from taking care of my wife while she recovers from back surgery.
 Please forgive me.
 Rip


----------



## Snuss

1ply said:


> Sorry, My bad, I am sleep deprived from taking care of my wife while she recovers from back surgery.
> Please forgive me.
> Rip


 
 No worries,
  
 May your wife have a speedy and slam-dunk recovery.
  
 -Snuss


----------



## bongieto

i just want to share my amazing find today. I got this $5 NOS RCA from eBay and I am very surprised of its sound. on my Lyr 2, Clarity is awesome. Soundstage is great. Although on the bass heavy side. However, it works well with my HE400i. This is a steal. You really don't need to spend much on exotic tubes to get an amazing sound quality. If you want to try it its on eBay for $5 dollars each. You won't regret it.


----------



## DavidA

bongieto said:


> i just want to share my amazing find today. I got this $5 NOS RCA from eBay and I am very surprised of its sound. on my Lyr 2, Clarity is awesome. Soundstage is great. Although on the bass heavy side. However, it works well with my HE400i. This is a steal. You really don't need to spend much on exotic tubes to get an amazing sound quality. If you want to try it its on eBay for $5 dollars each. You won't regret it.


 
 I think every once in a while you get lucky with tubes, I got a pair of sylvania's for $15 and they really sounded good, almost as good as $200 Telefunkens.


----------



## bongieto

davida said:


> I think every once in a while you get lucky with tubes, I got a pair of sylvania's for $15 and they really sounded good, almost as good as $200 Telefunkens.


 
 i actually just accidentally ordered it and then i saw a set of Mullards that I also purchased. I was actually planning to return it but i thought its $10 so maybe ill just try it and then sell it but when I tried it, I was surprised as it really pairs well with my HE400i which is a little bass light. I can't get enough of it now.


----------



## DavidA

bongieto said:


> i actually just accidentally ordered it and then i saw a set of Mullards that I also purchased. I was actually planning to return it but i thought its $10 so maybe ill just try it and then sell it but when I tried it, I was surprised as it really pairs well with my HE400i which is a little bass light. I can't get enough of it now.


 

 nice accident


----------



## lukeap69

bongieto said:


> i just want to share my amazing find today. I got this $5 NOS RCA from eBay and I am very surprised of its sound. on my Lyr 2, Clarity is awesome. Soundstage is great. Although on the bass heavy side. However, it works well with my HE400i. This is a steal. You really don't need to spend much on exotic tubes to get an amazing sound quality. If you want to try it its on eBay for $5 dollars each. You won't regret it.




Care to share the link? Ta.


----------



## bongieto

lukeap69 said:


> Care to share the link? Ta.


 
 I got it from this link
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/371534996813


----------



## lukeap69

bongieto said:


> I got it from this link
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371534996813


 
 Thanks mate.


----------



## bongieto

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks mate.


 

 you're welcome! You should really try this. It's getting better and better. It is so smooth and lush. The details is unbelievable for $10. Nice body. Non fatiguing. Bass can sometimes much but I little trim on the EQ makes it great. This is perfect for bass light cans. I have been listening all night last night and today.


----------



## lukeap69

I will think about it. Shipping to my place is more expensive than the cost of the tubes.


----------



## CFGamescape

bongieto said:


> I got it from this link
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371534996813


 

 Thanks, ordered a pair. Can't really go wrong for $10.


----------



## DavidA

Went looking thru my tube stash, found that I have these RCA's, and yes they are pretty good:


----------



## oAmadeuso

Ordered a pair of those RCA's out of curiosity.
 Suspect the customs charge to the UK will be more than what I paid for the things!


----------



## flyingmonkey

oamadeuso said:


> Ordered a pair of those RCA's out of curiosity.
> Suspect the customs charge to the UK will be more than what I paid for the things!


 
 The royal mail / parcelforce handling charge is the silly thing will be more than the VAT if they decide to charge, but in theory these are below the customs threshold.


----------



## CFGamescape

Received those $10/pair RCAs. They do indeed sound good. Like, surprisingly good. I just swapped my '74 Reflektor SWGP (silver shield) with these and I don't hear a huge drop off.
  
 The RCAs are warmer, less detailed and noisier. I like the RCAs better than my 71' Voskhod (gray shield), which were bought for around $40.
  
 One thing about these RCAs, though, is that they run HOT.


----------



## bongieto

cfgamescape said:


> Received those $10/pair RCAs. They do indeed sound good. Like, surprisingly good. I just swapped my '74 Reflektor SWGP (silver shield) with these and I don't hear a huge drop off.
> 
> The RCAs are warmer, less detailed and noisier. I like the RCAs better than my 71' Voskhod (gray shield), which were bought for around $40.
> 
> One thing about these RCAs, though, is that they run HOT.


 

 I am glad you liked it. Its funny I also have 71 Voshkod Gray Shield and its been gathering dust since I got the RCA. Yeah its really hot as it glows more than the other tubes I got.


----------



## mysticstryk

Moving up from a Vali 2 and Magni 2, this a pretty big noticeable upgrade? Running hd650 and 400i.


----------



## watchnerd

mysticstryk said:


> Moving up from a Vali 2 and Magni 2, this a pretty big noticeable upgrade? Running hd650 and 400i.


 
  
 It will put weight in your huevos.


----------



## DavidA

mysticstryk said:


> Moving up from a Vali 2 and Magni 2, this a pretty big noticeable upgrade? Running hd650 and 400i.


 
 Maybe...I went from original Magni to Lyr2 and it was quite noticeable with HE-400 and HD-650, after I changed the tubes to some Telefunken CCa's or '75 Reflectors, currently have some Vokshod's in the Lyr2, works great with HE-400i and HE-560.  The Telefunken's are really over priced currently but as they are getting harder to find, maybe price is justified a little.  Reflector's and other tubes are much more reasonable priced, or even like those RCA's that another poster recommended.


----------



## XSAMURAI

mysticstryk said:


> Moving up from a Vali 2 and Magni 2, this a pretty big noticeable upgrade? Running hd650 and 400i.


 
 i moved from magni 2 uber to lyr 2 , different is massive , with my hd700 and um pro 50 , first time i plugged hd700 i was in shocked , Clarity is amazing , ultra wide soundstage with more weight and more depth , very transparent , separation is fantastic , music touch my ear now , one thing is very noticeable is bass !!!! oh man i never expected such bass from hd700 , Bass going Very deep and clean i realy impressed , even with iem um pro 50 sound is totally different than magni 2 u , i highly recomended of course with good dac , i'm using modi and modi 2 u and pioneer xdp-100r as source sometimes , but in future i want upgrade to nad 1050 or emotica dac-1 and Mjolnir 2
 how do you compare Vali 2 vs magni 2 ? because i'm thinking to bought vali 2 and sell magni 2 u


----------



## mysticstryk

xsamurai said:


> i moved from magni 2 uber to lyr 2 , different is massive , with my hd700 and um pro 50 , first time i plugged hd700 i was in shocked , Clarity is amazing , ultra wide soundstage with more weight and more depth , very transparent , separation is fantastic , music touch my ear now , one thing is very noticeable is bass !!!! oh man i never expected such bass from hd700 , Bass going Very deep and clean i realy impressed , even with iem um pro 50 sound is totally different than magni 2 u , i highly recomended of course with good dac , i'm using modi and modi 2 u and pioneer xdp-100r as source sometimes , but in future i want upgrade to nad 1050 or emotica dac-1 and Mjolnir 2
> how do you compare Vali 2 vs magni 2 ? because i'm thinking to bought vali 2 and sell magni 2 u


 
  
 I don't have a Vali 2 yet. I was debating between a Vali 2 or Lyr 2.


----------



## oAmadeuso

mysticstryk said:


> I don't have a Vali 2 yet. I was debating between a Vali 2 or Lyr 2.


 
  
 Based on that you've got some LCD-2's in your sig I would recommend the Lyr 2.
  
 But whichever you chose bear in mind you'll improve the sound no end by rolling the tubes.


----------



## chuckgopal

After weeks of deliberation, finally decided to get a Lyr 2 for my HE500s, as an upgrade from the Asgard (1). Cannot wait to try them. 
  
 I would have loved to try the Gustard H10 (it came so highly recommended) - but getting it was an issue (I stay in India) and getting it from the US would have led to insane (and unpredictable) custom duties. A friend is coming from Australia in March and I got the Lyr 2 from a site called Addicted To Audio. At AUD 699, it seemed to be a good buy, not much more above the US price. I could have splurged for the WA6 if I wanted to, but after hearing the Deckard do nothing for me, I was a little averse to spending too much more. Especially since HeadFi seemed to wax eloquent about the Lyr-HE500 pairing.
  
 Also, would love to see (hear?) what tubes sound like. I'm also looking forward to the RCA out for my Swans speakers - currently I use a Belkin 5 way (hasn't affected audio quality but I guess some of you are cringing seeing that ) from my HRT MusicStreamer II+ DAC.
  
 Must say I've always loved the Hifimans - but my respect for them shot up astronomically after listening to the Audeze LCD X for a week, which just felt... Very bass-y (but oh man, so comfortable!)
  
 Thank you to the entire Head-Fi community for making sure my bank balance takes a beating every year 
  
 Chuck


----------



## CFGamescape

chuckgopal said:


> Thank you to the entire Head-Fi community for making sure my bank balance takes a beating every year
> 
> Chuck


 
 Congrats on the Lyr 2. Welcome to the club. Yes, tube rolling will take a toll on your wallet. It's fun, though.


----------



## Matro5

I'm sure this has been asked before, but is anyone using the Lyr 2 with HD650s? I already own the Lyr 2, and I've had my eye on a pair of the Senns for awhile. 
  
 Goal is actually a comfortable, easy-to-listen to sound that I can use for work. 
  
 Any impressions of this combo?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

matro5 said:


> I'm sure this has been asked before, but is anyone using the Lyr 2 with HD650s? I already own the Lyr 2, and I've had my eye on a pair of the Senns for awhile.
> 
> Goal is actually a comfortable, easy-to-listen to sound that I can use for work.
> 
> Any impressions of this combo?


 
 I used to have the Lyr and used it with the HD650 for over a year. The combination was warm and punchy, more dynamic than with the Valhalla 2 but less resolving and with a smaller stage. I found the combination satisfying, but if that was your only headphone, I would pick something else in that price range, such as the Valhalla 2 or BH Crack w/speedball. The strength of the Lyr is its versatility with a variety of a kind of headphones. If I were you, I would not hesitate to pick up either the HD650 or the HD600 if you already have the Lyr. Just realize they scale incredibly high, and the Lyr, while able to drive them, is not going to be the last word. 
  
 FWIW I do miss my Lyr very much.


----------



## chuckgopal

cfgamescape said:


> Congrats on the Lyr 2. Welcome to the club. Yes, tube rolling will take a toll on your wallet. It's fun, though.


 
  
 Thank you! Any recommendations on tubes I can start with (there's still some time for my friend to come down from Aus)? Or should I just stick with the stock tubes for a while? I don't mind spending upto $100 more for now. Tried looking at some Lyr 2 recommendations on the forums but many of the tubes are way, way over that budget.
  
 If it helps, I primarily listen to rock, metal and acoustic.
  
 Chuck


----------



## CFGamescape

chuckgopal said:


> Thank you! Any recommendations on tubes I can start with (there's still some time for my friend to come down from Aus)? Or should I just stick with the stock tubes for a while? I don't mind spending upto $100 more for now. Tried looking at some Lyr 2 recommendations on the forums but many of the tubes are way, way over that budget.
> 
> If it helps, I primarily listen to rock, metal and acoustic.
> 
> Chuck


 

 PM rb2013 to see if he has anything for you. If you check my profile, I have three pairs of Russian tubes I bought from him, all varying prices, cheapest being the '71 Voskhod. The $10 per pair RCAs are also a good start, IMO.
  
 The stock tubes are okay, but I don't plan on going back to them.
  
 I've asked related questions in the past and here's a post where I quoted a bunch of members' responses: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/8355#post_12230307
  
 Hope it helps...


----------



## oAmadeuso

chuckgopal said:


> Thank you! Any recommendations on tubes I can start with (there's still some time for my friend to come down from Aus)? Or should I just stick with the stock tubes for a while? I don't mind spending upto $100 more for now. Tried looking at some Lyr 2 recommendations on the forums but many of the tubes are way, way over that budget.
> 
> If it helps, I primarily listen to rock, metal and acoustic.
> 
> Chuck


The tube rollers thread posted above is the best place for advice
 Apologies in advance for what it'll do to your wallet.


----------



## DavidA

matro5 said:


> I'm sure this has been asked before, but is anyone using the Lyr 2 with HD650s? I already own the Lyr 2, and I've had my eye on a pair of the Senns for awhile.
> 
> Goal is actually a comfortable, easy-to-listen to sound that I can use for work.
> 
> Any impressions of this combo?


 
 I agree with @Liu Junyuan, while the Lyr2 is a great versatile amp the HD-650 along with my HD-600/800/T1/DT-990 sound a little better on a BH Crack.  Another thing is the tubes you are using will play a role in what various headphones sound like.
 PS: I still have my Lyr2, works great with my HE-400i/560/LCD-2/K7XX/SRH-1840


----------



## tjl5709

matro5 said:


> I'm sure this has been asked before, but is anyone using the Lyr 2 with HD650s? I already own the Lyr 2, and I've had my eye on a pair of the Senns for awhile.
> 
> Goal is actually a comfortable, easy-to-listen to sound that I can use for work.
> 
> Any impressions of this combo?


 

 My old kit: Bifrost Uber/ Lyr2/ HD650.
  
 I got caught on the roller wagon. This goes back a couple years.
  
 I rolled many, but these are the ones that provided me the best all around sound. Amperex Orange Globes (good), Bugle Boys (good), Amperex 7308's (very very good), Telefunken E88CC (very, very good) , 74 6n23p Rockets (very, very good) , CCa's (excellent)
  
 For everyday listening, I use either the 7308's or the E88cc's. These just work and I don't need to get caught up in rolling.
  
 I have since moved up to the gumby and MJ2. With these tubes and the HD650's. It's magical.


----------



## oAmadeuso

Well those RCA tubes have come in.
 Not bad at all for $10!
  
 Put my impressions up on the Lyr Tube Rollers thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/8415#post_12308028


----------



## flyingmonkey

I found a great set of valves for £30 on ebay that I really like, so I sank my cash into a set of HE 560 which sound great, different to the HD 700 but both are good. still think that the best investment was the Mojo which makes the biggest difference to the sound and to me is the most cost effective upgrade there is.


----------



## Matro5

liu junyuan said:


> I used to have the Lyr and used it with the HD650 for over a year. The combination was warm and punchy, more dynamic than with the Valhalla 2 but less resolving and with a smaller stage. I found the combination satisfying, but if that was your only headphone, I would pick something else in that price range, such as the Valhalla 2 or BH Crack w/speedball. The strength of the Lyr is its versatility with a variety of a kind of headphones. If I were you, I would not hesitate to pick up either the HD650 or the HD600 if you already have the Lyr. Just realize they scale incredibly high, and the Lyr, while able to drive them, is not going to be the last word.
> 
> FWIW I do miss my Lyr very much.


 
  
  


davida said:


> I agree with @Liu Junyuan, while the Lyr2 is a great versatile amp the HD-650 along with my HD-600/800/T1/DT-990 sound a little better on a BH Crack.  Another thing is the tubes you are using will play a role in what various headphones sound like.
> PS: I still have my Lyr2, works great with my HE-400i/560/LCD-2/K7XX/SRH-1840


 
  
  


tjl5709 said:


> My old kit: Bifrost Uber/ Lyr2/ HD650. [snip]
> 
> I rolled many, but these are the ones that provided me the best all around sound. Amperex Orange Globes (good), Bugle Boys (good), Amperex 7308's (very very good), Telefunken E88CC (very, very good) , 74 6n23p Rockets (very, very good) , CCa's (excellent)


 
 Thanks to all for the replies! A few follow up questions and clarifications. 
  
 From what I've read, it seems like the Valhalla is THE Schiit amp for the 650 in this range. That's good to know, but I have the Lyr 2 already, with no plans to switch it. Also, for what its worth, I'm using 74 Voskhod Rocket SWGP Silver Shields from rb. So, I've got good tubes, although I haven't yet stepped up to the over $250 range. 
  
 So, should I be looking at a different headphone for the Lyr 2? The other pair I thought about is the AKG Kxx from Massdrop. 
  
 The boxes I'm trying to tick are: 
  
 Super comfortable to wear all day
 Relatively mellow ( i love grados, but this is not the use case for them ) 
 great sounding
 good looking enough not to be embarrassing
  
 The reason I keep coming back to the Senns is that I feel like they'll scale with gear. They've been around forever, with easily replaceable parts and high build quality. 
  
 Still, Liu said *"If that was your only headphone, I might pick something else in that range." *
  
 What would you guys recommend?


----------



## M-83

matro5 said:


> Thanks to all for the replies! A few follow up questions and clarifications.
> 
> From what I've read, it seems like the Valhalla is THE Schiit amp for the 650 in this range. That's good to know, but I have the Lyr 2 already, with no plans to switch it. Also, for what its worth, I'm using 74 Voskhod Rocket SWGP Silver Shields from rb. So, I've got good tubes, although I haven't yet stepped up to the over $250 range.
> 
> ...



 


Mrspeakers Alpha Prime.


----------



## tjl5709

matro5 said:


> Thanks to all for the replies! A few follow up questions and clarifications.
> 
> From what I've read, it seems like the Valhalla is THE Schiit amp for the 650 in this range. That's good to know, but I have the Lyr 2 already, with no plans to switch it. Also, for what its worth, I'm using 74 Voskhod Rocket SWGP Silver Shields from rb. So, I've got good tubes, although I haven't yet stepped up to the over $250 range.
> 
> ...


 

 Your good on the tubes.
  
 Back when I was rolling, a fellow member moved from the HD650 to some LCD2's and found it better. Same sound profile, but being a planner, the Lyr drove it well and he sold the HD's which should tell you something.
  
 My HD's have responded very well (scaled as you say) as I've improved the chain. My biggest leap was going to a multibit DAC. The detail and musicality was amazing.


----------



## DavidA

matro5 said:


> Thanks to all for the replies! A few follow up questions and clarifications.
> 
> From what I've read, it seems like the Valhalla is THE Schiit amp for the 650 in this range. That's good to know, but I have the Lyr 2 already, with no plans to switch it. Also, for what its worth, I'm using 74 Voskhod Rocket SWGP Silver Shields from rb. So, I've got good tubes, although I haven't yet stepped up to the over $250 range.
> 
> ...


 
 If comfort is the main concern then a HD-700 is fairly comfortable and depending on the tubes in the lyr2 will sound quite nice, looks wise it depends, on my GF it looks ok since her hair hides most of it, but her favorite out and about headphone is a Momentum on-ear (pink), see picture:


 You could also build a SennGrado, they sound great and depending the pads that you use can be quite comfortable:

 These are L pads, for me they are ok, I can use them for a few hours at a time, also very light.  They are a little harder to drive than Grado's so the Lyr2 will help a lot.  Cost is around $150-200 depending on the type of wood and headband but if you have an old SR-60/80 you can remove the drivers and mount them in wood cups which really improves the sound and you already have a headband.
  
 The HD-650 will sound very good on the Lyr2, its a universal headphone for most genres of music so its hard to wrong, I feel that everyone should have one in their collection or have had them at one point or another.


----------



## NoOneLt

Hi, just got my Lyr 2, will need some time to play with to get some impressions.
  
 But first thing i noticed that at lowest volume setting there is big imbalance between L/R, at bit higher levels it disappears. Is it "normal" or i should contact distributor?
  
 And another thing, on the included tube i hardly see any markering written in yellow paints, just some beginnings like "PHI....." and "made......"
  
 BR.


----------



## oAmadeuso

noonelt said:


> Hi, just got my Lyr 2, will need some time to play with to get some impressions.
> 
> But first thing i noticed that at lowest volume setting there is big imbalance between L/R, at bit higher levels it disappears. Is it "normal" or i should contact distributor?
> 
> ...


 
 I've not noticed any imbalance on mine.
 If you swap the tubes does the imbalance swap too?
  
 On the tubes mine just said "Made in Canada"
 Got rid as soon as I could, NOS tubes sounded much better.


----------



## flyingmonkey

I think that you need to listen to a few headphones from the suggestions here and buy the one you like, all the good reviews in the world won't help if you Don't like them, me with any amp with valves would stay with neutral or bright sounding headphones but you need to listen or you are just throwing dice.


----------



## NoOneLt

oamadeuso said:


> I've not noticed any imbalance on mine.
> If you swap the tubes does the imbalance swap too?
> 
> On the tubes mine just said "Made in Canada"
> Got rid as soon as I could, NOS tubes sounded much better.


 
 Hey, i only have original tube, so can not check with another at this moment.
  
 EDIT: Wow, wow  wrong thread here, a got Vali 2 not Lyr  Sorry here.


----------



## oAmadeuso

noonelt said:


> Hey, i only have original tube, so can not check with another at this moment.


I meant swap the tubes from on socket to the other.
Put the front in the back one and back in the front one.
If the imbalance swaps too then it's a tube issue.


----------



## DavidA

noonelt said:


> Hi, just got my Lyr 2, will need some time to play with to get some impressions.
> 
> But first thing i noticed that at lowest volume setting there is big imbalance between L/R, at bit higher levels it disappears. Is it "normal" or i should contact distributor?
> 
> ...


 
 Try swapping the tubes, if the channel imbalance is still there then there is a problem with your tubes, if the channel imbalance changes then I would send it back since its within the amp and not the tubes.


----------



## NoOneLt

Sorry guys, hit the wrong thread, i have Vali 2, single tube... So seems it is in the amp. I will go to Vali 2 thread.


----------



## oAmadeuso

noonelt said:


> Sorry guys, hit the wrong thread, i have Vali 2, single tube... So seems it is in the amp. I will go to Vali 2 thread.


 
 Good luck!


----------



## Matro5

davida said:


> The HD-650 will sound very good on the Lyr2, its a universal headphone for most genres of music so its hard to wrong, I feel that everyone should have one in their collection or have had them at one point or another.


 
  
 Thanks, David, for the thoughtful reply. I kind of agree with this - the HD650 feels like a right of passage sort of headphone, one that allows you to have a reference for everything else that's out there. 
  
 My main headphones right now are Grado PS500, which are a lot more expensive than the HD650 ( street price, anyway), but I think the Senns would bring something the Grados don't, which is all day comfort.
  
 Funny, too, that you mention the Momentum on-ear, as that's my current work phone, and it's what got me thinking again about the HD650. I used to have the 598s, too.
  
 In my experience, tubes alter the sound more so than amps themselves. That's one reason I got the Lyr, so that I could play around with different tube types without breaking the bank. And, since the Senns seem to reveal the quality of upstream components, the 650 should respond well to different tubes. 
  
 To bring it back around, I wonder what tubes would be the best match for them?


----------



## Matro5

tjl5709 said:


> My HD's have responded very well (scaled as you say) as I've improved the chain. My biggest leap was going to a multibit DAC. The detail and musicality was amazing.


 
  
 Very interesting. I'm using the Dragonfly with my Lyr now, but I will pick up the Bifrost MB at some point.


----------



## DavidA

matro5 said:


> Thanks, David, for the thoughtful reply. I kind of agree with this - the HD650 feels like a right of passage sort of headphone, one that allows you to have a reference for everything else that's out there.
> 
> My main headphones right now are Grado PS500, which are a lot more expensive than the HD650 ( street price, anyway), but I think the Senns would bring something the Grados don't, which is all day comfort.
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like you are on a similar path on this headphone journey, not saying its good or bad.

 Lyr2 and HD-650: best tubes IMO would be Telefunken CCa's, very detailed, great dynamics, best tubes that I have, unfortunately they are also the most expensive, and seem to be going up more.  More economical choice: Re-issue Electro Harmonix (nice bass and extended highs), 75 Reflectors (choice of many) or Vokshods
  
 I also have a RS2e, I liked it a little better than the PS500e which I tried at the same time, the aluminum outer housing made them too bright for me but the bass was nicer.
  
 As for the Momentum on-ears:  one of the best gifts the other year, gave 7 of them for BD/X-mas presents, girls love the pink, green and red, got all from Amazon, used-like new, $54-59, for most of them its the best headphones they ever heard.


----------



## tjl5709

davida said:


> Looks like you are on a similar path on this headphone journey, not saying its good or bad.
> 
> Lyr2 and HD-650: best tubes IMO would be Telefunken CCa's, very detailed, great dynamics, best tubes that I have, unfortunately they are also the most expensive, and seem to be going up more.  More economical choice: Re-issue Electro Harmonix (nice bass and extended highs), 75 Reflectors (choice of many) or Vokshods
> 
> ...


 

 I've had my 650's for quite some time. The chain went fiio e09>bifrost/lyr>bifrost uber/lyr2>gumby/mj2>yggy/mj2. I'm hooked on the tube hybrid sound. The CCA's are wonderful, but if you want a good all around tube that is relatively easy to still find and not break the bank, the telefunken e88CC's or amperex 7308's sound very good with the 650's. The 650's are also very capable of showing the detail that the multibit platform provides. It's a good HP paired with the Lyr. I kept my lyr2 to pair with my gumby if thats any indication about the amp.


----------



## DavidA

@tjl5709, stopped my chain at UD-301/MB Bifrost/Lyr2/Ember/BH Crack, heard the yggy/rag and a few other high end stuff a few months ago and noted that my hearing can barely tell the difference between the MB Bifrost and Yggy (getting old).  I'm not a serious enough listener to go up further on the ladder, also if I can use my speakers then its my first choice.  A friend gave me his old second set of SR-009/SRM-007 and any though of headphone upgrades went out the door, I was able to hear them hooked up to his Master7, Mhdt Pagoda, yggy, and hugo tt but the improvement from the MB Bifrost was very little/none to me.
 I also have the regular E88CC telefunkens and 7308 amperex, the amperex are a little to warm for me with the HD-650 which I consider a warm headphone to begin with, they work quite well with DT-990 and T1.


----------



## tjl5709

davida said:


> @tjl5709, stopped my chain at UD-301/MB Bifrost/Lyr2/Ember/BH Crack, heard the yggy/rag and a few other high end stuff a few months ago and noted that my hearing can barely tell the difference between the MB Bifrost and Yggy (getting old).  I'm not a serious enough listener to go up further on the ladder, also if I can use my speakers then its my first choice.  A friend gave me his old second set of SR-009/SRM-007 and any though of headphone upgrades went out the door, I was able to hear them hooked up to his Master7, Mhdt Pagoda, yggy, and hugo tt but the improvement from the MB Bifrost was very little/none to me.
> I also have the regular E88CC telefunkens and 7308 amperex, the amperex are a little to warm for me with the HD-650 which I consider a warm headphone to begin with, they work quite well with DT-990 and T1.


 

 Dang, I listened to some SR-009's in Japan a number of years ago. My push has been to get back to that sound. E-stats are cool.
  
 I hear ya on the age thing. What I have really enjoyed with the multi-bit platform was the musicality of the sound (none fatiguing for me) and the detail/liveness. I am now listening at lower volumes and just sitting back listening to all the different instruments and the people actually playing them. It's been amazing.


----------



## DavidA

tjl5709 said:


> Dang, I listened to some SR-009's in Japan a number of years ago. My push has been to get back to that sound. E-stats are cool.
> 
> I hear ya on the age thing. What I have really enjoyed with the multi-bit platform was the musicality of the sound (none fatiguing for me) and the detail/liveness. I am now listening at lower volumes and just sitting back listening to all the different instruments and the people actually playing them. It's been amazing.


 
 I think you might want to look at some old vintage Stax, I have a SRD-34 from 1982, just had to replace the pads and they still sound great, not a true electrostat but pretty close for $75-150, going price for used ones when I checked last year.  The work great for those how still have speakers since they run of the speaker taps.
 Back in the early to mid '80s I had some Stax speakers, got them in a trade for a some JBL's, the person didn't know what they were, sadly they bit the dust, too much humidity where I was living at the time.
  
 sorry, going off tract here


----------



## Matro5

davida said:


> If comfort is the main concern then a HD-700 is fairly comfortable and depending on the tubes in the lyr2 will sound quite nice,
> 
> 
> The HD-650 will sound very good on the Lyr2, its a universal headphone for most genres of music so its hard to wrong, I feel that everyone should have one in their collection or have had them at one point or another.


 
  
 Just a quick update - with HD650 prices being sky high right now, I took a chance on the HD700 via Amazon, where it was down to $425. That's actually cheaper than the HD650 right now in most places. 
  
 Because I've never heard the HD700, I'm not sure what to expect, but this feels like my best chance to audition them with my Lyr 2, my tubes, my music. During these 30 days, I'll track down some HD650s and do a comparison. If anyone else has compared the two, I'd love to hear it.
  
 Should be fun!


----------



## DavidA

matro5 said:


> Just a quick update - with HD650 prices being sky high right now, I took a chance on the HD700 via Amazon, where it was down to $425. That's actually cheaper than the HD650 right now in most places.
> 
> Because I've never heard the HD700, I'm not sure what to expect, but this feels like my best chance to audition them with my Lyr 2, my tubes, my music. During these 30 days, I'll track down some HD650s and do a comparison. If anyone else has compared the two, I'd love to hear it.
> 
> Should be fun!


 
 I think you made a good choice, find some warmer tubes for the HD-700, like amperex or mullards, (i'm using vokshod's now and they are not bad) will help with the highs that bother some who are sensitive.  A few pages back there was talk that the HD-700 was for older people since we start to lose hearing in the highs first, lol.


----------



## flyingmonkey

davida said:


> I think you made a good choice, find some warmer tubes for the HD-700, like amperex or mullards, (i'm using vokshod's now and they are not bad) will help with the highs that bother some who are sensitive.  A few pages back there was talk that the HD-700 was for older people since we start to lose hearing in the highs first, lol.


 
 I like the HD-700's with the Lyr 2 as well and they sound great with some ECC88 bugle boy d getters that I lucked out on, I have tried some HD-650's and they are very different from each other.
  
 I really am not that keen on the HD-650 sound but that is my own taste, but the HD-700 are more detailed on my system.


----------



## Matro5

flyingmonkey said:


> I like the HD-700's with the Lyr 2 as well and they sound great with some ECC88 bugle boy d getters that I lucked out on, I have tried some HD-650's and they are very different from each other.
> 
> I really am not that keen on the HD-650 sound but that is my own taste, but the HD-700 are more detailed on my system.


 
 That's funny, my other non-stock tubes are Bugle Boys, though I'm not sure if they are D-Getters or not. How can I tell? Looking forward to trying them.


----------



## flyingmonkey

The bit of metal at the very top of the valve is in the shape of a D


----------



## Falkengard

Has anybody tried Amperex Philips E88CC SQ tubes with the Lyr 2?  Wonder how that combo is using my Xonar Essence Stx, Lyr 2 and Hd 650's


----------



## DavidA

falkengard said:


> Has anybody tried Amperex Philips E88CC SQ tubes with the Lyr 2?  Wonder how that combo is using my Xonar Essence Stx, Lyr 2 and Hd 650's


 
 If they have the SQ printed on them with gold pins, I have a set, also very similar to Bugle Boys, warm sounding, great dynamics, little to warm for with the HD-650 for me, my DAC is UD-301 connected by optical from computer


----------



## B-Dawk20

Any experience with the Gungnir Multibit and Lyr 2 as a pair? Needed to upgrade my DAC section and I figured I'd jump to the higher end for when I choose to get a better amp. Probably buying it next week, just curious to hear impressions


----------



## tjl5709

b-dawk20 said:


> Any experience with the Gungnir Multibit and Lyr 2 as a pair? Needed to upgrade my DAC section and I figured I'd jump to the higher end for when I choose to get a better amp. Probably buying it next week, just curious to hear impressions


 

 My story. Went from bifrost uber/lyr2 to gumby/mj2. Intended on keeping the bifrost/lyr as a secondary set. Was blown away by the sound that gumby brought. Rethought the backup system. Wanted the multibit platform in that chain. Instead of upgrading the bifrost, I bought yggy. Secondary is now Gumby/Lyr2. I love the tube sound Lyr2 and MJ2 brings to the table. They work wonderfully with the resolution and muscality that the multibit platform brings. Lyr2 works good with gumby. You will like it.
  
 So my thoughts are; spend as much as you can afford on the DAC. Also, the benefit of gumby is you have balanced for any future upgrades you make and get ready to hear your music library in a new light. You will hear things like never before.


----------



## reddog

tjl5709 said:


> My story. Went from bifrost uber/lyr2 to gumby/mj2. Intended on keeping the bifrost/lyr as a secondary set. Was blown away by the sound that gumby brought. Rethought the backup system. Wanted the multibit platform in that chain. Instead of upgrading the bifrost, I bought yggy. Secondary is now Gumby/Lyr2. I love the tube sound Lyr2 and MJ2 brings to the table. They work wonderfully with the resolution and muscality that the multibit platform brings. Lyr2 works good with gumby. You will like it.
> 
> So my thoughts are; spend as much as you can afford on the DAC. Also, the benefit of gumby is you have balanced for any future upgrades you make and get ready to hear your music library in a new light. You will hear things like never before.



+1 The Yggdrasil is a wonderful DAC and I hope yours always puts a smile on your face.


----------



## B-Dawk20

Haha the Yggy is a bit too rich for my blood so the Gunby will have to do. My DAC right now is just really crippling my whole system and it was never all that great in the first place. Can't wait to go the next level with my collection!


----------



## reddog

b-dawk20 said:


> Haha the Yggy is a bit too rich for my blood so the Gunby will have to do. My DAC right now is just really crippling my whole system and it was never all that great in the first place. Can't wait to go the next level with my collection!



The Gumby is also a great DAC. I use it in my tv room, hooked up to my Liquid Crimson or MJOLNIR 2. J hope your systems always puts a big old smile on your face.


----------



## B-Dawk20

Went ahead and bought the Gunby.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

b-dawk20 said:


> Went ahead and bought the Gunby.


 
 It's a fantastic DAC and may be all you need with the Lyr 2.


----------



## B-Dawk20

LIFE! LIFE is what the Gungnir has brought to my setup. It's like my LCD-2 has finally gotten it's chance to show it's stuff in my setup. Oh this is going to be a fun weekend. Next up on my list? Tube rolling....I'm scared lol.


----------



## tjl5709

b-dawk20 said:


> LIFE! LIFE is what the Gungnir has brought to my setup. It's like my LCD-2 has finally gotten it's chance to show it's stuff in my setup. Oh this is going to be a fun weekend. Next up on my list? Tube rolling....I'm scared lol.


 

 So's your wallet.


----------



## Orejo

Just wanted to hear your humble opinion.

I'm using the HE-560 and I wanted to buy the Lyr 2 and the Bimby as a DAC but I'm quite concerned about the heat. From what I've read so far, the Lyr 2 tends to get "bloody hot" and you could even burn your fingers. It gets quite warm in my room, even in Swiss winter up to 24°C. In summer, we do use AC, but I do not want to use it, just to cool my amp. 

Do you think I should rather purchase another amp?


----------



## DavidA

orejo said:


> Just wanted to hear your humble opinion.
> 
> I'm using the HE-560 and I wanted to buy the Lyr 2 and the Bimby as a DAC but I'm quite concerned about the heat. From what I've read so far, the Lyr 2 tends to get "bloody hot" and you could even burn your fingers. It gets quite warm in my room, even in Swiss winter up to 24°C. In summer, we do use AC, but I do not want to use it, just to cool my amp.
> 
> Do you think I should rather purchase another amp?


 
 Yes it does get hot, I have a 140mm usb powered fan blowing over my Lyr2, Ember and BH Crack.  I'm of the thought that with electronics you keep them as cool as possible for the longest life.
 Living in Hawaii does not help also


----------



## oAmadeuso

I've a bimby with a lyr 2 stacked on top. Gets hot but no bother.

Tubes sound best when warmed up anyway. Switch mine on Friday eve and leave it on until Sunday eve.
Would be happy to leave it on 24/7 if it wasn't for tube life.


----------



## Soepkip

It gets warm, but hot is an overstatement. Am able to put my hand on it even after running it for hours. Would not touch the tubes since they are running warmer and bare touching of tubes reduces life expectancy anyway. Also putting the lyr in a closed cabinet would not be a good plan.
  
 As long as you run the stack and allow enough airflow you should be fine.


----------



## CFGamescape

Lyr 2 gets very warm after a good 30-45 mins, but never hot to the point where you can't touch it. Different tubes also tend to run at slightly different temps. I would also leave it on 24/7 if tube life wasn't a concern.


----------



## B-Dawk20

I can surely touch it and do all the time. It just certainly aint comfortable lol. Also the tubes (at least the tops) are the coolest parts.


----------



## Campari

Ordered Lyr 2 from schiit europe last week. I'm excited to compare it to my current asgard 2. I hope it will arrive soon.


----------



## 5kylon

campari said:


> Ordered Lyr 2 from schiit europe last week. I'm excited to compare it to my current asgard 2. I hope it will arrive soon.


 
 would love to hear your comparison - i'm deciding between the two. =).


----------



## chuckgopal

cfgamescape said:


> PM rb2013 to see if he has anything for you. If you check my profile, I have three pairs of Russian tubes I bought from him, all varying prices, cheapest being the '71 Voskhod. The $10 per pair RCAs are also a good start, IMO.
> 
> The stock tubes are okay, but I don't plan on going back to them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Many thanks for that link.
  
 I did a lot of reading in there and, importantly, saw what was available in Australia (where my friend is coming from - by now I guess you've realised India doesn't have much for headphone lovers). I settled on the Genalex Gold Lion 6922 E88CC. It worked out to the equivalent of USD 90. I have no idea about tube rolling (any instructions / videos?) but almost every review I read about the Lyr / Lyr 2 highly recommended getting a fresh pair of tubes, so I thought, why not 
  
 Will write back in about a month with impressions - definitely hope it does something for me since the Deckard didn't 
 Chuck


----------



## DavidA

campari said:


> Ordered Lyr 2 from schiit europe last week. I'm excited to compare it to my current asgard 2. I hope it will arrive soon.


 
 I've had both amps for a while now and both are pretty good, the Lyr2 works better with a wider range of headphones that I have so its with my main rig,  With the Lyr2 its more about finding tubes that suit your taste.  The Asgard2 is in my bedroom and used when I don't want to wake the girlfriend. 
  
 If I had to do it over I think I would not have gotten the Asgard2, Lyr2, BH Crack, Ember and a few other amps along the way and went up the ladder to either a EC Balancing Act, Liquid Glass or Liquid Gold.  I got to hear these 3 high end amps along with a few others on a visit to a friend in Japan a few months ago and I could have gotten one of these for what I spent on all the rest.


----------



## Walderstorn

davida said:


> I've had both amps for a while now and both are pretty good, the Lyr2 works better with a wider range of headphones that I have so its with my main rig,  With the Lyr2 its more about finding tubes that suit your taste.  The Asgard2 is in my bedroom and used when I don't want to wake the girlfriend.
> 
> If I had to do it over I think I would not have gotten the Asgard2, Lyr2, BH Crack, Ember and a few other amps along the way and went up the ladder to either a EC Balancing Act, Liquid Glass or Liquid Gold.  I got to hear these 3 high end amps along with a few others on a visit to a friend in Japan a few months ago and I could have gotten one of these for what I spent on all the rest.


 
  
 Not being fair comparing those high end with the mid ones  but i understand where u r getting at. From those 4 i only tried 3 and i still prefer the Crack to any of them, was a pain to buy one and stop being jealous of my older brother crack (pun not intended).


----------



## DavidA

walderstorn said:


> Not being fair comparing those high end with the mid ones  but i understand where u r getting at. From those 4 i only tried 3 and i still prefer the Crack to any of them, was a pain to buy one and stop being jealous of my older brother crack (pun not intended).


 

 True, not a fair comparison but if you started with one then you are one and done, end game, no upgrades to consider.  As I noted, if I had started with one of those end game amps, I would have spent about the same.
  
 The BH Crack is the best OTL amp under $500 but as good as it is the EC Balancing Act and Liquid Glass was a noticeable step up to me with HD-650/800/T1/Ether and a few other headphones that I tried them with.  Are they worth 4-5 times the cost of the Lyr2 or BH Crack, for me that answer is no, I'm getting older and my hearing is not getting better so its a easy decision.


----------



## Walderstorn

davida said:


> True, not a fair comparison but if you started with one then you are one and done, end game, no upgrades to consider.  As I noted, if I had started with one of those end game amps, I would have spent about the same.
> 
> The BH Crack is the best OTL amp under $500 but as good as it is the EC Balancing Act and Liquid Glass was a noticeable step up to me with HD-650/800/T1/Ether and a few other headphones that I tried them with.  Are they worth 4-5 times the cost of the Lyr2 or BH Crack, for me that answer is no, I'm getting older and my hearing is not getting better so its a easy decision.


 
  
 My tight budget wont ever let me go to end-game region so for me "at most 500€" budget is something i have to hold on to. Its my reality and i accept it ^^.
 My brother on the other hand has better gear but he lives in the UK so *shrug*.


----------



## DavidA

walderstorn said:


> My tight budget wont ever let me go to end-game region so for me "at most 500€" budget is something i have to hold on to. Its my reality and i accept it ^^.
> My brother on the other hand has better gear but he lives in the UK so *shrug*.


 
 I've stopped upgrading, staying with Lyr2, BH Crack, Ember, Asgard2 and a few other cheap amps, reached my end-game.  My try a balanced amp down the road if the opportunity arises, but not actively searching.
  
 The only time I will get any other amp is if they are given to me like the SR-009/SRM-007 pair that my friend gave to me, it was his second set that he had gotten really cheap.  Unfortunately I had to send them back to him to get them repaired, I could not check if it was the driver or amp that was the problem, hope to have them back soon.


----------



## riverlethe

Not sure why they only advertise -65dB crosstalk...  Perhaps the performance changes with headphones.


----------



## KeithEmo

There are several different ways of measuring crosstalk, which will come up with very different numbers, and, as someone already noted, it may will change with different headphones connected, or depending on which output you measure it. However, I think the important point is that crosstalk as low as -65 dB is _VERY_ low, certainly lower than you're going to find of practical difference with any source material, so there's really no point in worrying about it. 
  
 Quote:


riverlethe said:


> Not sure why they only advertise -65dB crosstalk...  Perhaps the performance changes with headphones.


----------



## wadi

Have anyone had a chance to compare Lyr2 to Chord Mojo?


----------



## riverlethe

The Mojo headphone amp looks seriously underpowered.


----------



## DavidA

wadi said:


> Have anyone had a chance to compare Lyr2 to Chord Mojo?


 
 This is apples and oranges comparison, desktop amp vs portable DAC/amp.  Is there a reason for requesting the comparison between a portable DAC/amp and a desktop amp?  Just curious to know the circumstance for such a request.


----------



## wadi

davida said:


> This is apples and oranges comparison, desktop amp vs portable DAC/amp.  Is there a reason for requesting the comparison between a portable DAC/amp and a desktop amp?  Just curious to know the circumstance for such a request.


 
 A friend of mine has let me to listen his Mojo for a few days. That thing sounds pretty close to Lyr2/Bimby combo. Maybe a little bit leaner and colder though. I am just curious if anybody else found out that too. Since mojo doesn't have a true line out i couldn't compare amplifier sections directly.


----------



## DavidA

wadi said:


> A friend of mine has let me to listen his Mojo for a few days. That thing sounds pretty close to Lyr2/Bimby combo. Maybe a little bit leaner and colder though. I am just curious if anybody else found out that too. Since mojo doesn't have a true line out i couldn't compare amplifier sections directly.


 
 Okay, now it makes sense for the question.  I haven't heard a Mojo but the Hugo has a better DAC section than the Bimby IMO from my short time using the Hugo.  The amp section of the Hugo is good but depending on what headphones you have I think there is better for a lot less.  Didn't do much comparisons with amps, I was more interested in the DAC section.


----------



## martin155

Hi, I'm considering to buy Bifrost with Lyr 2 and I would need to know if this combo is good enough for these headphones: Audeze LCD-X, Mrspeakers Ether, Hifiman Edition X and Sennheiser HD800S. Thank you


----------



## tjl5709

martin155 said:


> Hi, I'm considering to buy Bifrost with Lyr 2 and I would need to know if this combo is good enough for these headphones: Audeze LCD-X, Mrspeakers Ether, Hifiman Edition X and Sennheiser HD800S. Thank you


 

 Are those headphones that you have, or are concidering?


----------



## martin155

tjl5709 said:


> Are those headphones that you have, or are concidering?


 

 I'm just considering them, but since I'm not sure which I'll pick (I will borrow them after I have the rest), I'd need DAC and AMP good enough for all of them.


----------



## tjl5709

martin155 said:


> I'm just considering them, but since I'm not sure which I'll pick (I will borrow them after I have the rest), I'd need DAC and AMP good enough for all of them.


 

 My story: Had bifrost/lyr2 and then moved up to gumby/mj2 and then to yggy/mj2.
  
 With what I know now, and with the phones you are targeting, I would move up one layer to gumby/mj2.


----------



## martin155

tjl5709 said:


> My story: Had bifrost/lyr2 and then moved up to gumby/mj2 and then to yggy/mj2.
> 
> With what I know now, and with the phones you are targeting, I would move up one layer to gumby/mj2.


 
  
 And is there significant difference between gumby/mj2 and yggy/mj2 ?


----------



## DavidA

martin155 said:


> Hi, I'm considering to buy Bifrost with Lyr 2 and I would need to know if this combo is good enough for these headphones: Audeze LCD-X, Mrspeakers Ether, Hifiman Edition X and Sennheiser HD800S. Thank you


 
 Bifrost/Lyr2 for LCD-X and Ether is okay as they are fairly efficient headphones, I didn't care for the Ether and actually liked the LCD-2 & 3 better than the LCD-X when I heard them at my friends place a few months ago, all were driven by Master9 and Liquid Glass/Gold
  
 Haven't heard a Edition X so can't say if B/L2 will work
  
 If the HD-800S is like the HD-800 then I wouldn't get the Lyr2, a BH Crack does a better job to me.


----------



## Falkengard

Just an update after trying out those Philips tubes with the Lyr 2 compared to Orange Globes and Amperex ECC88, I am liking the Philips over the others since it seems to sound so much more natural (Listening with HD 600s).  I think the other two tubes still actually sounded amazing, I might be leaning more towards the Amperex ECC88s if I had to pick one of the two but it's very close for me.  I just love the warm sound from the Philips.  I wanted to try all these with my HD 650's originally, but having brand new drivers, accidentally knocking them off my 4ft desk and onto the carpet was enough to screw up my right driver.  Go figure...  At least spares are easy to get for those.


----------



## tjl5709

martin155 said:


> And is there significant difference between gumby/mj2 and yggy/mj2 ?


 

 Significant for me was moving from bifrost uber to gumby. Is the gumby to yggy significant? No. Noticable? Yes.
  
 On an economic scale is it "justifiable" to spend the coin. For me, yes. Yggy has more resolution. Both are very musical, and enjoyable to listen too.
  
 If bifrost uber was a 4, gumby is an 8.5. Yggy is a 10.
  
 In the context of this thread, the Lyr 2 is a very nice hybrid amp. I like it's sound profile that the tubes provide. When I had it paired to my HD650's it made them sing quite well. (I still have it as it will be paired to gumby as a secondary rig)
  
 When I read about the new Schiit gear that they were bringing out, and multibit was being added to their other DAC's, and that the revised MJ2 was now a tube hybrid, I decided to move to gumby and MJ2 as they are both balanced. I could use the glass I had from the Lyr which was also a driving factor.
  
 Everything I read was that both were better. Everything that was stated was correct. It was significantly better. I had never thought that a redbook CD could sound this way, and that being the case, I had to try Yggy. I did and I like it.
  
 The question was asked previously about a series of cans, and could the lyr2 drive them. Yes it can. But at the level of those cans, it could become a limiting factor.
  
 I recently added the Ether C to my collection. Its sound profile is along the lines of the HD-650 which I like allot. After getting them broke in, and listening quite abit, I started to get the idea that they were not really that much better then the 650's. So, I went back and listened to the 650's.
  
 Bad idea. Not even close. The sound profile was there. Yes. But they could not compete on clarity and bring out the high and low details that the mj2/yggy was feeding it. I now have to find an open can to replace them.
  
 Thus my point; if your thinking of moving up the chain in regards to cans, then think about the chain feeding them. Spend as much, or more on a good DAC to feed your amp.
  
 Heres a different twist on the above. Everything posted on these forums is about listening to music. And everything here is geared to reproduce music so you can hear and enjoy. You need to decide what level of detail you need for the music you listen to.
  
 If you only listen to say, hiphop, then I really see no reason to go mid to high end on anything. The music is usually highly compressed, and mixed to be loud. Get a bassy can, high powerd amp, and a basic DAC and call it a day. If you want to, or have other genre's like jazz, or classical and want to hear the person breathing as they play a flute, or hear the persons fingers on the frets of an accoustical guitar, then you will want the higher end cans, and you will want them fed with a good signal. I have moved to the ladder. I am hearing new details in some of my music that I have had from the late 80's when I converted to CD's. (ya, I'm that old) It's a weird experience listening to something that you thought you really knew, but didn't.


----------



## wadi

tjl5709 said:


> Significant for me was moving from bifrost uber to gumby. Is the gumby to yggy significant? No. Noticable? Yes.
> 
> On an economic scale is it "justifiable" to spend the coin. For me, yes. Yggy has more resolution. Both are very musical, and enjoyable to listen too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I tried both Mj2 SE and Lyr 2 and i couldn't notice any difference in sound tbh. In fact, I could give a slight edge to Lyr 2 for being more powerful than MJ2 SE output. I'd like to hear your impressions as well between two.


----------



## tjl5709

Lyr2 SE is more powerful than MJ2 SE.
  
 But I run all balanced now in my primary rig as it is better. It provides better power & clarity to feed my Ether C's.


----------



## Ranstedt

Should I consider purchasing the Lyr 2 if I don't plan to swap tubes? 
  
 I'm looking for transparent, neutral, dynamic, punchy. Not colored.
  
 Would the Lyr 2 w/ LISST be better than the Asgard 2 for what I'm looking for?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DivergeUnify

ranstedt said:


> Should I consider purchasing the Lyr 2 if I don't plan to swap tubes?
> 
> I'm looking for transparent, neutral, dynamic, punchy. Not colored.
> 
> ...


 lyr2 with lsst has much more power than the Asgard so that's a nice pro

I'm listening to stock tubes and they re really nice and pretty neutral


----------



## KeithEmo

I have an Asgard (v 1 - with the upgrades), and I find it to be very neutral.
 I had a Lyr on loan for a while (v 1 - with glass tubes), and I found it to be quite "tubey".
 I think you will find that the Lyr II, even with "solid state tubes", will sound more tubey than the Asgard.
 Therefore, if you really want neutral, I think I'd go with the Asgard.
  
 And, unless you've got especially difficult to drive phones, you don't _NEED_ much power at all to do the job very well.
 (Power only counts if you really don't have enough - in which case it's a problem.)
  
 Quote:


ranstedt said:


> Should I consider purchasing the Lyr 2 if I don't plan to swap tubes?
> 
> I'm looking for transparent, neutral, dynamic, punchy. Not colored.
> 
> ...


----------



## DavidA

ranstedt said:


> Should I consider purchasing the Lyr 2 if I don't plan to swap tubes?
> 
> I'm looking for transparent, neutral, dynamic, punchy. Not colored.
> 
> ...


 
 Probably not since the Lyr2 will still have some of the tube architecture still in place even with the LISST tubes while the Asgard2 has only SS.


----------



## riverlethe

Keith, do you remember which tubes you were running?


----------



## riverlethe

divergeunify said:


> lyr2 with lsst has much more power than the Asgard so that's a nice pro
> 
> I'm listening to stock tubes and they re really nice and pretty neutral




SS Lyr 2 seems pretty pointless, unless you're trying to power the HE6. If you've got a really neutral system and you want to add a tube layer, it might make sense... However, I'm not sure the stock 6bz7's deviate much from "neutrality." I'm running JJ E88CC's, and I think they're more what I imagined for a tube sound.

Edit: Lyr 1 originally shipped with the JJ's as an option, so that may be what Keith is talking about.


----------



## Ranstedt

Looks like I'll cross the Lyr 2 off the list. Instead I'll consider the Asgard 2, and a few others such as the Lake People G109P, and Grace M9XX.
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## riverlethe

I put the stock 6BZ7's back in, and the heavens opened.
  
 (Yes, I know they have more gain.)


----------



## jamato8

riverlethe said:


> I put the stock 6BZ7's back in, and the heavens opened.
> 
> (Yes, I know they have more gain.)


 

 The 6BZ7 preceded the 6DJ8 types. They are under rated and still a good buy. I recommended them way back when to Schiit and that is when they started using them. They are good and they are cheap.


----------



## MrTie84

Just got a Lyr 2 last night with stock tubes and LISST. I have been using a Valhalla 2(swapped to Halo Orange Globes)with my HD800s for a few months and have been considering buying a planar to compliment the HD800 and was hoping the Lyr 2 wouldn't give up too much on the Valhalla 2 on the HD800s.
  
 Quick and Dirty impressions.
  
 The HD800 sound better on Low gain consistently but I dislike having to go SO deep in the volume knob to get to the levels I want.
  
 Stock Lyr 2 tubes: Where the hell did my sound stage go? Kinda lifeless up top, nice tighter bass though. Thicker/slower vs the Valhalla 2.
  
 LISST Lyr 2: Super Linear top to bottom, tightest bass, however when they start to distort they sound AWFUL. Sound stage feels way more 2d versus the Valhalla. Interesting option though.
  
 Orange Globe Lyr 2: Tonally getting a lot closer to how the Valhalla 2 sounds with these in them. I feel like I'm getting a tiny bit more resolution, but I feel like I'm losing some dynamics, sound staging, and speed.
  
 Over all I'm going to give it a longer listen, but my gut reaction is if you are trying to decide between the two amps, I think for less money the Valhalla 2 is the better choice if you only Have/want High Z cans, it obviously falls on it's face with hungry planars. I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to give up the last few percent of magic the Valhalla gives me for more felxbility but you might/need to and I don't think the Lyr 2 sounds bad with the HD800 at all, just not quite as special.
  
 How I listened: Jriver-STX ST coax out-Bifrost Multibit-Sys-Lyr 2 & Valhalla 2 volume matched by ear.


----------



## DavidA

Agree, the Lyr2 is not a great match for the HD-800, I felt that even my Ember was a better pairing but still not quite like a BH Crack.
  
 I felt that the Amprex Orange Globes were not a good match for the Lyr2, had better results with Reflector's, Telefunken's and Voskhod's.


----------



## B-Dawk20

I heard the HD800 pairing isn't bad with the right tubes. Not the best by any means but pretty decent if the Lyr 2 is your only option.


----------



## CFGamescape

Has anyone tried the Ether C with the Lyr 2, and if so, what tubes did you like?


----------



## goreshade

Is the Lyr2 a good match for k701 and k812 ?


----------



## B-Dawk20

goreshade said:


> Is the Lyr2 a good match for k701 and k812 ?




The latter I don't know but the Lyr+Bifrost stack has always been known to be a great combo for the K/Q701/2


----------



## Kalavere

I've had a brief search but not come up with much, does anyone else's Lyr 2 buzz constantly when idle? I've had it for well over a year but I'm not sure when I started noticing it humming. I don't want to turn it on and off, it stays on perpetually. I have it in my bedroom and I can hear it humming when idle from a good 15 foot away at night, is that normal?


----------



## DavidA

kalavere said:


> I've had a brief search but not come up with much, does anyone else's Lyr 2 buzz constantly when idle? I've had it for well over a year but I'm not sure when I started noticing it humming. I don't want to turn it on and off, it stays on perpetually. I have it in my bedroom and I can hear it humming when idle from a good 15 foot away at night, is that normal?


 
 That does not seem right, have you tried changing the tubes?  Might also want to contact Schiit about this


----------



## Kalavere

davida said:


> That does not seem right, have you tried changing the tubes?  Might also want to contact Schiit about this


 
  
 Yeah, changing the tubes makes no difference. I can actually _feel _the Lyr humming, like it's bubbling.


----------



## DavidA

kalavere said:


> Yeah, changing the tubes makes no difference. I can actually _feel _the Lyr humming, like it's bubbling.


 
 Turn it off and contact Schiit ASAP, you don't want to damage anything


----------



## riverlethe

davida said:


> Agree, the Lyr2 is not a great match for the HD-800, I felt that even my Ember was a better pairing but still not quite like a BH Crack.
> 
> I felt that the Amprex Orange Globes were not a good match for the Lyr2, had better results with Reflector's, Telefunken's and Voskhod's.







mrtie84 said:


> Just got a Lyr 2 last night with stock tubes and LISST. I have been using a Valhalla 2(swapped to Halo Orange Globes)with my HD800s for a few months and have been considering buying a planar to compliment the HD800 and was hoping the Lyr 2 wouldn't give up too much on the Valhalla 2 on the HD800s.
> 
> Quick and Dirty impressions.
> 
> ...




The max input power on the HD800 is 500mW. There's no way you're getting the Lyr to distort with this load.


----------



## MrTie84

Perhaps not but the LISST get shouty to me when they get loud, that's all I can say. I don't experience this on the Valhalla 2. and I don't experience this with tubes in the Lyr 2.  The HD800 does have an impedance of around 650ohm at 100hz as well.


----------



## DavidA

riverlethe said:


> The max input power on the HD800 is 500mW. There's no way you're getting the Lyr to distort with this load.


 
 Its not distortion that I'm saying that is happening with the Lyr2, its the synergy between the HD-800 and Lyr2 that is not as good as the BH Crack, YMMV but this is just my opinion.


----------



## Tomczak888

Hey guys, I've recently bought Lyr2 with stock Canadian tubes. They're pretty nice and balanced but I'm looking for some tubes that have smooth treble and powerful bass. Can anyone recommend me either some cheap and expensive tubes that have this kind of signature? Thanks!


----------



## DavidA

tomczak888 said:


> Hey guys, I've recently bought Lyr2 with stock Canadian tubes. They're pretty nice and balanced but I'm looking for some tubes that have smooth treble and powerful bass. Can anyone recommend me either some cheap and expensive tubes that have this kind of signature? Thanks!


 
 There is a tube rolling thread for the Lyr/Lyr2 that you might want to check out.
  
 For me, 74-75 Reflectors, Amperex PQ or Orange Globe, Telefunken CCa, Vokshods


----------



## fastmike

cfgamescape said:


> Has anyone tried the Ether C with the Lyr 2, and if so, what tubes did you like?


 
 Or the regular Ether?  I have a Lyr 2 incoming, looking for suggestions on tubes


----------



## reddog

fastmike said:


> Or the regular Ether?  I have a Lyr 2 incoming, looking for suggestions on tubes



The best I have heard my Lyr2 run my ETHER, is using my NOS Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes. These tubes are very musical as well as very revealing. I also liked how the Lyr2 sounded with current production tubes Genalex Gold Lions. The Gold Lions really have good bass that do not leak into the midds. Good luck, I hope your Lyr2 puts a big old smile on your face.


----------



## wadi

reddog said:


> The best I have heard my Lyr2 run my ETHER, is using my NOS Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes. These tubes are very musical as well as very revealing. I also liked how the Lyr2 sounded with current production tubes Genalex Gold Lions. The Gold Lions really have good bass that do not leak into the midds. Good luck, I hope your Lyr2 puts a big old smile on your face.


 
  
 How would you compare Lyr2 with your best tubes to Cavalli amps?


----------



## reddog

wadi said:


> How would you compare Lyr2 with your best tubes to Cavalli amps?



That is a tough question, I only use balanced headphones with Cavalli amps. I would say the Lyr2, with the best tubes could compete with the Liquid Carbon.. But to my ears Cavalli house sound is different than the Schiit Audio's house sound.


----------



## CFGamescape

fastmike said:


> Or the regular Ether?  I have a Lyr 2 incoming, looking for suggestions on tubes


 

 I was looking for some E188CC Dario Miniwatts, but lucked into a good deal for '75 Reflektor silver shields (HGs), so that's what I'm using with my Ether C at the moment. Some say the HGs are too revealing. I don't think so at all, at least my pair. Sounds good to me. Still burning in my C.


----------



## MrGoat

Delete, wrong thread.


----------



## JoeDoe

New Schiithead here. Bimby feeding the Lyr 2 with stock tubes into my PS1000. So far the Lyr is keeping up with the WA7tp really well. 

Wondering which mid-priced tubes will rock the PS even harder...


----------



## B-Dawk20

tomczak888 said:


> Hey guys, I've recently bought Lyr2 with stock Canadian tubes. They're pretty nice and balanced but I'm looking for some tubes that have smooth treble and powerful bass. Can anyone recommend me either some cheap and expensive tubes that have this kind of signature? Thanks!


 
  
  
 The Telefunken Um 60s do that but I think it may depend on your headphones! I think they make my HD650's bass too bloomy but otherwise, it's pleasent!


----------



## PiMoGo

So I have a Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber combo, but thinking about trying out balanced connections with the Mjolnir. Would the Bifrost be a good companion for the Schiit Mjolnir. I'd rather not upgrade the DAC yet. Granted a concern is the difference sizes--they wont stack up very well.


----------



## Chillzone21

Will these drive the HE6?


----------



## Greeink

Thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these Lyr 2's... however I'm worried that a 3 is around the corner? Should I hold off? I haven't really seen any information regarding any of the upcoming Schiit lineups.
  
 Thanks


----------



## rnros

greeink said:


> Thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these Lyr 2's... however I'm worried that a 3 is around the corner? Should I hold off? I haven't really seen any information regarding any of the upcoming Schiit lineups.
> 
> Thanks


 

 You can check the link for new products being introduced this year, but concerning the current models, Jason has this to say:
 "*None of the new products will have a “3” on them, however.*  Just in case you’re thinking of one of our “2” series products. Like I said before, it is very hard to improve on the “2” series products without radical changes—in effect, making them different products."
  
Full post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/10455#post_12520714


----------



## ToddRaymond

chillzone21 said:


> Will these drive the HE6?




Sure, why not? But to a level you will find satisfactory? With a sensitivity of 83.5 dB... yeeeeaaaah.


----------



## Greeink

rnros said:


> You can check the link for new products being introduced this year, but concerning the current models, Jason has this to say:
> "*None of the new products will have a “3” on them, however.*  Just in case you’re thinking of one of our “2” series products. Like I said before, it is very hard to improve on the “2” series products without radical changes—in effect, making them different products."
> 
> Full post:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/10455#post_12520714


 

 I appreciate the rather quick response. I've been looking through that thread and didn't come across that portion... but unfortunately didn't make my decision any easier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## DavidA

greeink said:


> Thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these Lyr 2's... however I'm worried that a 3 is around the corner? Should I hold off? I haven't really seen any information regarding any of the upcoming Schiit lineups.
> 
> Thanks


 
 What headphones are you going to be using with the Lyr2?


----------



## Greeink

davida said:


> What headphones are you going to be using with the Lyr2?


 
  
 Mostly the HE-500's, however I am thinking about picking up a Beyer T5P sometime in the future. I hear mostly good things with the pairing and the thought of rolling some tubes and the LISST intrigues me quite a bit. Appears I get the best of both world's really with a Lyr purchase getting that tube goodness and a bit of SS sound as well.


----------



## DavidA

greeink said:


> Mostly the HE-500's, however I am thinking about picking up a Beyer T5P sometime in the future. I hear mostly good things with the pairing and the thought of rolling some tubes and the LISST intrigues me quite a bit. Appears I get the best of both world's really with a Lyr purchase getting that tube goodness and a bit of SS sound as well.


 
 Lyr2 should drive HE-500 well, only heard the HE-500 on my friends system and it was really nice, but like my HE-400, too heavy after a while.
 Never heard the T5P so I don't know how the Lyr2 will pair with it.
  
 Got to hear the LISST SS tubes in a Mjolnir2, didn't impress me much, it lost the tube character to me, but if you are looking for neutral then they work well.


----------



## Greeink

davida said:


> Lyr2 should drive HE-500 well, only heard the HE-500 on my friends system and it was really nice, but like my HE-400, too heavy after a while.
> Never heard the T5P so I don't know how the Lyr2 will pair with it.
> 
> Got to hear the LISST SS tubes in a Mjolnir2, didn't impress me much, it lost the tube character to me, but if you are looking for neutral then they work well.


 

 The weight does take some time getting used too! But, I just love the sound.
  
 Looks like I'll be making a purchase soon! I appreciate the responses David.


----------



## ButchP

chillzone21 said:


> Will these drive the HE6?


 
 No doubt about it. There are 2 output levels selectable with a toggle switch. Use low for sensitive headphones and high for hard to drive models. The high output drives my HD650s to insane volumes. The low level output is perfect for pre-amp out to my speaker amp.
  
 Before purchasing the Lyr 2 with Bifrost multibit, I was disappointed in the Sennheiser 'phones. They sounded too polite. Oppo BDP105's headphone jack just couldn't move me. Same goes for the 'phone jack on the Marantz AV8003 and Dragonfly USB DAC/amp.
  
 I now see how these cans managed to remain a major contender for so long. I had almost quit listening through headphones entirely, but after reading what others were saying about this Schiit stack, I had to hear it. I'm moving now. Problem is, I'm not getting much work done because I cannot seem to concentrate on my work. The music is demanding my full attention.


----------



## sikki-six

The low gain on Lyr 2 is quite enough for HD600 and HD650 in my opinion. I usually have vol pot at 12 to 1 o'clock with my 600's. The LCD-2's need slightly less. (I have my computer/soundcard volume maxed.)
  
 Actually I don't have a pair that needs the high gain setting... Do you guys use it?
  
 EDIT: Lyr 2 drives all my hp's very well. I used to use my Apogee Duet's hp-out, but now it functions only as a DAC. The Audezes got more room / SS to their sound, maybe resolution too. 600's got some more low-bass, but just maybe. The differences from the thunderbolt-powered Duet aren't huge, but I guess they are there.
  
 I also bought the LISST's. They are ever so slightly brighter than the stock tubes. I happily listen with either.


----------



## DavidA

sikki-six said:


> The low gain on Lyr 2 is quite enough for HD600 and HD650 in my opinion. I usually have vol pot at 12 to 1 o'clock with my 600's. The LCD-2's need slightly less. (I have my computer/soundcard volume maxed.)
> 
> Actually I don't have a pair that needs the high gain setting... Do you guys use it?
> 
> ...


 
 Have you gotten any other tubes to roll?  I tried the LISST tubes, agree they were brighter but also less full sounding in the lows.  The most power hungry headphone I have are HE-560, with the Lyr2 in high gain I'm at 1-1:30, currently using Siemens Lorenz, will change tubes soon as these have been used for the last month, I like to rotate my tubes about once a month just to have a different sound signature.


----------



## sikki-six

davida said:


> Have you gotten any other tubes to roll?  I tried the LISST tubes, agree they were brighter but also less full sounding in the lows.  The most power hungry headphone I have are HE-560, with the Lyr2 in high gain I'm at 1-1:30, currently using Siemens Lorenz, will change tubes soon as these have been used for the last month, I like to rotate my tubes about once a month just to have a different sound signature.


 
  
 I didn't get the new tubes. My only tubes are the stocks and the LISST's.


----------



## DavidA

sikki-six said:


> I didn't get the new tubes. My only tubes are the stocks and the LISST's.


 
 If you ever decide to start rolling tubes I would suggest getting some socket savers, makes removing and installing tubes much easier.
  
 These are one of the better socket savers that I've found: http://www.tubemonger.com/
  
 They also have the benefit of offering a little better cooling


----------



## Nin9

Hi guys I'm thinking about purchasing the lyr2 to pair with some q701's. Can anyone give me any good recommendations for some tubes to start with? Thanks


----------



## DavidA

nin9 said:


> Hi guys I'm thinking about purchasing the lyr2 to pair with some q701's. Can anyone give me any good recommendations for some tubes to start with? Thanks


 
 Amperex bugle boys or Mullards would be my suggestions for the Q701


----------



## Nin9

Thank you for your reply. Before I get knee deep in schiit, does anyone think lyr2 is overkill for q791/k7xx?


----------



## lukeap69

nin9 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Before I get knee deep in schiit, does anyone think lyr2 is overkill for q791/k7xx?




Nope.


----------



## DavidA

nin9 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Before I get knee deep in schiit, does anyone think lyr2 is overkill for q791/k7xx?


 
 another vote for not overkill


----------



## Nin9

lukeap69 said:


> Nope.


 
  


davida said:


> another vote for not overkill


 
  Thanks guys just ordered, let the games begin!


----------



## DavidA

nin9 said:


> Thanks guys just ordered, let the games begin!


 

 Good luck with the Lyr2 and hope to hear from you again in this thread


----------



## Nin9

davida said:


> Good luck with the Lyr2 and hope to hear from you again in this thread


 
  
 Thanks, ill provide an update once I have spent some time with it. I am currently using the Asus STX DAC with the little dot mkII, The sound has improved from just using the STX alone. Hopefully the Lyr2 will make my headphones sing and unleash their full potential (Q701/K7xx) and once I am ready I will look to purchase a pair of planars.


----------



## kejar31

Got a lyr2 otw.. Should be here Thursday.. Will be an upgrade from my Asgard 2.. 

Will be pairing it with a Bifrost 4490 and some LCD-X's (2016 edition)... Anyone pair the lyr2 with the X's? If so what did you think of the combo?


----------



## Nin9

Received the lyr2, as for first impressions (after 2hrs) I am impressed but not blown away. Compared to the little dot mk2 the bass is tighter and the acoustic instruments seem to be alot more detailed. 

However I am starting to understand what others are saying when they refer to a blanket/fog around the vocals. I believe the this is down to the stock tubes being mediocre. I have some voshkod's on the way and I think I will pick up the LISST and a pair of bugle boys for comparison.

 This is just my opinion and I am in no way blessed with golden ears


----------



## CFGamescape

nin9 said:


> Received the lyr2, as for first impressions (after 2hrs) I am impressed but not blown away. Compared to the little dot mk2 the bass is tighter and the acoustic instruments seem to be alot more detailed.
> 
> However I am starting to understand what others are saying when they refer to a blanket/fog around the vocals. I believe the this is down to the stock tubes being mediocre. I have some voshkod's on the way and I think I will pick up the LISST and a pair of bugle boys for comparison.
> 
> This is just my opinion and I am in no way blessed with golden ears


 
 IMO, the stock tubes are very meh, but they'll probably sound better after many more hours of use. I never bothered. Went straight to using some Reflektor '74 and '75 silver shields.


----------



## DavidA

kejar31 said:


> Got a lyr2 otw.. Should be here Thursday.. Will be an upgrade from my Asgard 2..
> 
> Will be pairing it with a Bifrost 4490 and some LCD-X's (2016 edition)... Anyone pair the lyr2 with the X's? If so what did you think of the combo?


 
 Overkill for LCD-X since they are relatively easy to drive.  Didn't think an amp made much difference in the sound with the LCD-X unlike the 2 or 3.


----------



## DavidA

nin9 said:


> Received the lyr2, as for first impressions (after 2hrs) I am impressed but not blown away. Compared to the little dot mk2 the bass is tighter and the acoustic instruments seem to be alot more detailed.
> 
> However I am starting to understand what others are saying when they refer to a blanket/fog around the vocals. I believe the this is down to the stock tubes being mediocre. I have some voshkod's on the way and I think I will pick up the LISST and a pair of bugle boys for comparison.
> 
> This is just my opinion and I am in no way blessed with golden ears


 
 The stock tubes were bright and thin sounding to me, didn't give the image of blanket/fog around the vocals, more like made them shouty and irritating.  Tried the LISST, waste of money IMO, made everything too bright


----------



## kejar31

davida said:


> Overkill for LCD-X since they are relatively easy to drive.  Didn't think an amp made much difference in the sound with the LCD-X unlike the 2 or 3.


 
  
 Well I have used a few amps on them so far and the have definitely scaled up with better amps, at least up to the Asgard 2 that I have now… Using the Asgard2 oh High Gain the volume pot site about at the 11 or 12 o’clock position most of the time. I guess I assumed that with the Lyr2 and the LCD-X’s the amp would simply run in class A mode the whole time (which isn’t a bad thing)  
  
 I will have the two amps side by side today so I guess we will see.. If the Lyr2 doesn’t sound better I guess I can resell it


----------



## DavidA

@kejar31, when I was at a friends house and got to listen to the LCD-X driven by a Liquid gold, EC Balancing Act, AudioGD Master 11, Lyr2, Pono DAP, Vx1 and a few other amps, there was no clear difference between them.  The design and market for the LCD-X is for an easy to drive clean sounding headphone for studio use.
  
 Also, your Asgard2 is a pretty good amp so the only changes you will hear will be very slight and done by the tubes used, some may say that its a huge difference or upgrade but to me its just a different sound signature.


----------



## Nin9

davida said:


> The stock tubes were bright and thin sounding to me, didn't give the image of blanket/fog around the vocals, more like made them shouty and irritating.  Tried the LISST, waste of money IMO, made everything too bright




Just tried again with the Voshkod's, the vocals seem alot more intimate now. Much more enjoyable now. Interesting comment on the LISST.


----------



## kejar31

davida said:


> @kejar31
> , when I was at a friends house and got to listen to the LCD-X driven by a Liquid gold, EC Balancing Act, AudioGD Master 11, Lyr2, Pono DAP, Vx1 and a few other amps, there was no clear difference between them.  The design and market for the LCD-X is for an easy to drive clean sounding headphone for studio use.
> 
> Also, your Asgard2 is a pretty good amp so the only changes you will hear will be very slight and done by the tubes used, some may say that its a huge difference or upgrade but to me its just a different sound signature.




Not sure what is going on with your friends LCD-X's but I can confirm that the Lyr2 was a noticeable upgrade from the Asgard 2 on my X's.. 

I have used the Micca Origen, Oppo HA2, Bifrost(4490)/Asgard 2 and the Bifrost/Lyr2 with my X's now.. And every step up was an improvement.


----------



## DavidA

kejar31 said:


> Not sure what is going on with your friends LCD-X's but I can confirm that the Lyr2 was a noticeable upgrade from the Asgard 2 on my X's..
> 
> I have used the Micca Origen, Oppo HA2, Bifrost(4490)/Asgard 2 and the Bifrost/Lyr2 with my X's now.. And every step up was an improvement.


 

 Nothing going on with my friends LCD-X, the sound did not get better/upgrade with changing amps, just a slightly different sound signature with the various amps.  I don't consider changes in sound signature as an "upgrade" but just a different presentation of the music.  Don't get me wrong, the LCD-X is a good sounding headphone but to me it doesn't scale like others.  I think its just our definition of "upgrade" means different things to you and I.
  
 To me an upgrade would be like the changes in driving the HD-650 with the Asgard2 versus a BH Crack, the Asgard2 is fully capable of driving the HD-650 and its not bad but the sound is a little on the thin side, the bass lacks weight/depth, and the overall tone is lacking life to me.  The BH Crack with the right tubes will make the HD-650 sound like the great headphone that many consider it to be, the highs are smooth and detailed, mids are warm and not to forward, and the bass has the weight and depth (but not as detailed or tight as better headphones).


----------



## kejar31

davida said:


> Nothing going on with my friends LCD-X, the sound did not get better/upgrade with changing amps, just a slightly different sound signature with the various amps.  I don't consider changes in sound signature as an "upgrade" but just a different presentation of the music.  Don't get me wrong, the LCD-X is a good sounding headphone but to me it doesn't scale like others.  I think its just our definition of "upgrade" means different things to you and I.
> 
> To me an upgrade would be like the changes in driving the HD-650 with the Asgard2 versus a BH Crack, the Asgard2 is fully capable of driving the HD-650 and its not bad but the sound is a little on the thin side, the bass lacks weight/depth, and the overall tone is lacking life to me.  The BH Crack with the right tubes will make the HD-650 sound like the great headphone that many consider it to be, the highs are smooth and detailed, mids are warm and not to forward, and the bass has the weight and depth (but not as detailed or tight as better headphones).


 
  
 Well I don’t want to get into semantics about what is and is not an upgrade 
  
 Yes I consider the Lyr2 an upgrade, while it doesn’t really improve the bass (I think the bass is already perfect on the X) is does calm the 10K range a little while not effecting the highs quality nor detail. It also warms up the mids a little without making them more forward and increases the overall imaging giving a more holographic image of the music.
  
 For fun I went ahead and ordered a matched pair of Genalex Gold Lion 6992’s…


----------



## reddog

kejar31 said:


> Well I dont want to get into symantecs about
> 
> Well I don’t want to get into semantics about what is and is not an upgrade
> 
> ...



The Genalex Gold Lion 6992's are very nice tubes. I use those tubes for everyday listening and use my NOS tubes for special occasions. I use the Gold Lions in my Lyr2, MJ2, Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass. I hope you enjoy your rig with your Gold Lions.


----------



## Jimmy101

I've been using the amperex 7308's and very happy. They give the music the real weight of a live performance.


----------



## DarkStarXIII

I'm currently using a Lyr 2 with LCD-X, I found the amp to be a better match for the Hifiman HE-560  and especially the HE-6. 
  
 With the above being said, I do like the LCD-X better than both Hifiman cans I've owned.


----------



## Jim Dickson

I love my lyr2 with my bifrost dac I am using nos telefunken tubes


----------



## DavidA

jim dickson said:


> I love my lyr2 with my bifrost dac I am using nos telefunken tubes


 
 Also love those NOS Telefunken CCa's, got 3 sets before they really shot up in price over the last 2 years.


----------



## Jimmy101

Really spent some time with the Lyr 2 and 846's today. I listened to really heavy old stuff. Wow. Soungarden, Sabbath , Bardo Pond and Pearl Jam were brand new. The slam and impact were just so intense. Made me a believer in IEM's


----------



## oAmadeuso

jimmy101 said:


> Really spent some time with the Lyr 2 and 846's today. I listened to really heavy old stuff. Wow. Soungarden, Sabbath , Bardo Pond and Pearl Jam were brand new. The slam and impact were just so intense. Made me a believer in IEM's



IEM's off a Lyr2?
Blimey....


----------



## DavidA

jimmy101 said:


> Really spent some time with the Lyr 2 and 846's today. I listened to really heavy old stuff. Wow. Soungarden, Sabbath , Bardo Pond and Pearl Jam were brand new. The slam and impact were just so intense. Made me a believer in IEM's


 

 a little overkill?


----------



## cbl117

Would the LCD-X scale much going from a Schiit Bifrost MB/Lyr 2 combo to something like Auralic vega/Taurus mkii Combo?  Would it even be worth going higher up the schiit line to the Mjolnir 2/gungnir combo?
  
 I'm wondering what I'm leaving on the table with the Bifrost MB / Lyr 2 combo.


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> Would the LCD-X scale much going from a Schiit Bifrost MB/Lyr 2 combo to something like Auralic vega/Taurus mkii Combo?  Would it even be worth going higher up the schiit line to the Mjolnir 2/gungnir combo?
> 
> I'm wondering what I'm leaving on the table with the Bifrost MB / Lyr 2 combo.


 
 If the LCD-X is your main headphones then "upgrading" from Bimby/Lyr2 will not make much difference, tried LCD-X on Liquid Gold with MHDT Pagoda, maybe a touch better bass and soundstage but its a very slight change.  If you have other headphones like HD-800/S, HD-6XX and other high impedance headphones then upgrading from the Bimby/Lyr2 will make a difference as Lyr2 is not the greatest pairing with them.  I also think the 4490 is a better sounding DAC than the MB, is just sounds a touch smoother and not artificial as the MB when I heard them side by side a few months ago.  Wish I went with the 4490, would have been cheaper also.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> If the LCD-X is your main headphones then "upgrading" from Bimby/Lyr2 will not make much difference, tried LCD-X on Liquid Gold with MHDT Pagoda, maybe a touch better bass and soundstage but its a very slight change.  If you have other headphones like HD-800/S, HD-6XX and other high impedance headphones then upgrading from the Bimby/Lyr2 will make a difference as Lyr2 is not the greatest pairing with them.  I also think the 4490 is a better sounding DAC than the MB, is just sounds a touch smoother and not artificial as the MB when I heard them side by side a few months ago.  Wish I went with the 4490, would have been cheaper also.


 

 DavidA, first off, thanks for answering my questions lately.  I'm relatively new to head-fi, and still trying to sort everything out.  
  
 LCD-X is my only headphone (other than a IEM SE846), but at some point I would like to experiment with other headphones.
  
 I'm assuming law of diminishing returns has already kicked in...and I'm not leaving much on the table with the Bimby/Lyr 2 combo?
  
 Will all planar headphones and moderate impedance dynamic driver headphones pair well with the lyr  2?  Would going with Schiit's mjolnir 2 and gungnir work better with dynamic headphones?


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> DavidA, first off, thanks for answering my questions lately.  I'm relatively new to head-fi, and still trying to sort everything out.
> 
> LCD-X is my only headphone (other than a IEM SE846), but at some point I would like to experiment with other headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 For the price, Lyr2 is one of the better amps for anything under $1000 IMO, also, going with the mjolnir2/gungnir will only benefit if going balanced.  When I tried a few different headphones on my friends Liquid Gold and Glass amps that have both balanced and SE, there was a very slight difference in the sound stage, better in balanced mode for the headphones that I did try (HD-800/S, HE-560, T1 gen1/gen2, and Ether), but remember that these headphones are known for having good sound stage to begin with, will it help your LCD-X, probably a little but as you noted its way into diminishing returns. If you want better sound stage I would get another headphone to compliment the LCD-X. 
  
 To me having a great sound stage is only really appreciated with well mastered classical, blues and jazz, so if these are your favorite genres I would upgrade to a balanced DAC/amp combo, mjolnir2/gungnir is okay but for the price I think there is better out there.  But at the same time the LCD-X would not be my choice for those genres of music to begin with since that is not its strong point.  The LCD-X was made to be easy to drive and have a sound signature relatively flat and used for mastering/editing work.
  
 It gets a little tricky with headphones like the HD-800, T1 and other high impedance headphones since they do pair better with OTL design amps so for you I would suggest thinking about what headphones you see yourself wanting in the future and then after trying them on the Lyr2 figure out a plan from there.
  
 I've been doing a lot of research and talking with those who have the amps/DAC that I'm thinking of and it seems that you really should have two different amps, one for high impedance headphones and one for low impedance and plannars.
  
 Good luck, and as they say, sorry for your wallet.


----------



## Lynkdev

Focusing on rock, techno and orchestra like Hans Zimmer, would this pair well with HD650's?


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> For the price, Lyr2 is one of the better amps for anything under $1000 IMO, also, going with the mjolnir2/gungnir will only benefit if going balanced.  When I tried a few different headphones on my friends Liquid Gold and Glass amps that have both balanced and SE, there was a very slight difference in the sound stage, better in balanced mode for the headphones that I did try (HD-800/S, HE-560, T1 gen1/gen2, and Ether), but remember that these headphones are known for having good sound stage to begin with, will it help your LCD-X, probably a little but as you noted its way into diminishing returns. If you want better sound stage I would get another headphone to compliment the LCD-X.
> 
> To me having a great sound stage is only really appreciated with well mastered classical, blues and jazz, so if these are your favorite genres I would upgrade to a balanced DAC/amp combo, mjolnir2/gungnir is okay but for the price I think there is better out there.  But at the same time the LCD-X would not be my choice for those genres of music to begin with since that is not its strong point.  The LCD-X was made to be easy to drive and have a sound signature relatively flat and used for mastering/editing work.
> 
> ...


 

 DavidA, so many questions.....
  
 What would be a good complement for the LCD-X?  I thought the LCD-X had a decent soundstage.  Is this not the case?
  
 I think I prefer the sound of planars, but if I wanted to experiment with dynamic headphones to see if I like that sound signature, what would be a good headphone to test the waters or even complement the LCD-X?  I was toying around with the idea of getting a HD-600 and if I like that eventually move to the HD800S.  
  
 Is there a end game dac/amp setup that would power everything well?  Can the Lyr 2 power something like the HD-600 and well enough to enjoy?


----------



## DavidA

lynkdev said:


> Focusing on rock, techno and orchestra like Hans Zimmer, would this pair well with HD650's?


 
 I have 3 amps for my HD-650, as good as the Lyr2 is for planars, it doesn't pair well with the HD-6XX or HD-800.  Best pairing for HD-650 is BH Crack followed by Ember of the amps that I currently have.  For rock, techno and orchestra I usually listen with HE-400i, RS2e or HD-700.


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> DavidA, so many questions.....
> 
> What would be a good complement for the LCD-X?  I thought the LCD-X had a decent soundstage.  Is this not the case?
> 
> ...


 
 Sound stage on LCD-X is actually not bad if compared with other planars but when compared to HD-800/T1 then you will notice the differences.  But as I said in the previous post, the genre of the music plays an important part in which headphone I will listen with.  If you listen to mostly pop, rock, R&B, country, and even some jazz then the LCD-X does a fairly good job with them, but if you like classical, jazz and blues (provided they are well mastered/recorded) then something like the HD-800/S, T1 or Stax will be a much better choice.
  
 As for the HD-600, I would not suggest it paired with the Lyr2, not a very musical combination to me, it can be a bit on the bright/harsh side.  Even if using warm tubes the HD-600/650 with the Lyr2 is not something I would listen to or recommend.  Both the HD-600/650 sound best with OTL tube amps like the BH Crack or WA3 but you will need get a little better tubes for both.  This is where many say some pairing have great synergy, the BH Crack and HD-600 or HD-650 is one of those, about as good as you can get for under $1500, and to be honest, I would chose this over the LCD-X and even my SR-009 and HD-800 if you just want to enjoy the music.  If you are looking for the most detailed, resolving, neutral then the SR-009 or HD-800S are hard to beat.
  
 I've been looking for a end game DAC/amp that would power everything well but its in the $7000+ range, the 2 amps are EC Balancing Act and Liquid Gold, DACs are MHDT Pagoda and AudioGD Master 7.   Since my wallet is not that large I've been looking at Elise and Heron 5 as amps and MHDT Stockholm2 or AudioGD DAC-19 for the DAC.  I'm also still taking with my friend about buying is Liquid Glass from him but this is a long way down the road.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> Sound stage on LCD-X is actually not bad if compared with other planars but when compared to HD-800/T1 then you will notice the differences.  But as I said in the previous post, the genre of the music plays an important part in which headphone I will listen with.  If you listen to mostly pop, rock, R&B, country, and even some jazz then the LCD-X does a fairly good job with them, but if you like classical, jazz and blues (provided they are well mastered/recorded) then something like the HD-800/S, T1 or Stax will be a much better choice.
> 
> As for the HD-600, I would not suggest it paired with the Lyr2, not a very musical combination to me, it can be a bit on the bright/harsh side.  Even if using warm tubes the HD-600/650 with the Lyr2 is not something I would listen to or recommend.  Both the HD-600/650 sound best with OTL tube amps like the BH Crack or WA3 but you will need get a little better tubes for both.  This is where many say some pairing have great synergy, the BH Crack and HD-600 or HD-650 is one of those, about as good as you can get for under $1500, and to be honest, I would chose this over the LCD-X and even my SR-009 and HD-800 if you just want to enjoy the music.  If you are looking for the most detailed, resolving, neutral then the SR-009 or HD-800S are hard to beat.
> 
> I've been looking for a end game DAC/amp that would power everything well but its in the $7000+ range, the 2 amps are EC Balancing Act and Liquid Gold, DACs are MHDT Pagoda and AudioGD Master 7.   Since my wallet is not that large I've been looking at Elise and Heron 5 as amps and MHDT Stockholm2 or AudioGD DAC-19 for the DAC.  I'm also still taking with my friend about buying is Liquid Glass from him but this is a long way down the road.


 

 Thanks, David.  Lots to think about.  I mainly listen to rock, classic rock, prog rock (think Yes or Pink Floyd), acoustic, minimal jazz and classical.  So maybe thats what I seem to like the planar sound.  Is there another headphone that would pair well with the Lyr 2 and over another voicing to experiment with?  I like the idea of something lighter/easy to drive so I could power with my AK100II and transfer between rooms in the house.  Any ideas?


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> Thanks, David.  Lots to think about.  I mainly listen to rock, classic rock, prog rock (think Yes or Pink Floyd), acoustic, minimal jazz and classical.  So maybe thats what I seem to like the planar sound.  Is there another headphone that would pair well with the Lyr 2 and over another voicing to experiment with?  I like the idea of something lighter/easy to drive so I could power with my AK100II and transfer between rooms in the house.  Any ideas?


 
 Haven't used a AK100ii so it depends on if this is a bright, neutral or warm sounding DAC, if neutral or warm I would suggest HD-700, my GF uses hers with Fiio X3 almost every day when she walks our dog.  I would say that if you decide on the HD-700 get if from a place that you can return or audition if possible, its a very polarizing headphone, either you love them or hate them.
  
 The K7XX and TH-X00 from MassDrop are fun and easy to drive and both will provide very different sound signatures from the LCD-X and if you can or want to DIY, you can build a woody Grado with a Ypsilon driver, there are some who build and sell them also.  I've built a few using the Sennheiser PX-100ii driver but have gone away from them due to inconsistent drivers, one of the great things with these is you can mod/tune them in so many different ways, its a great way of learning the slight changes that happen with various mods, including driver placement, ear pads, damping material types and location and if you do a complete DIY then soldering, cable building and where to source from.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> Haven't used a AK100ii so it depends on if this is a bright, neutral or warm sounding DAC, if neutral or warm I would suggest HD-700, my GF uses hers with Fiio X3 almost every day when she walks our dog.  I would say that if you decide on the HD-700 get if from a place that you can return or audition if possible, its a very polarizing headphone, either you love them or hate them.
> 
> The K7XX and TH-X00 from MassDrop are fun and easy to drive and both will provide very different sound signatures from the LCD-X and if you can or want to DIY, you can build a woody Grado with a Ypsilon driver, there are some who build and sell them also.  I've built a few using the Sennheiser PX-100ii driver but have gone away from them due to inconsistent drivers, one of the great things with these is you can mod/tune them in so many different ways, its a great way of learning the slight changes that happen with various mods, including driver placement, ear pads, damping material types and location and if you do a complete DIY then soldering, cable building and where to source from.


 

 DavidA, I was building on the idea of a transportable setup to move around the house, and ended up deciding on a ifi micro iDSD to pair with my AK100II DAP and/or macbook pro.  So no AC power needed and minimal boxes.  I was originally planning to pair all of that with my LCD-X, but I found a bundle deal at Adorama that I could not pass up.  So I'm getting a pair of HD-650s too!!  All for only $669!!  That scratches my itch to experiment with more headphones and gets me a transportable setup.  I know we had discussed the Lyr 2 not being the best match with the HD-6XX headphones, but I've heard the ifi micro iDSD is really something of a powerhouse for its size (max of 4W, 8V swing, @ 16ohm I believe) and pairs well with the HD-650.  Do you have any experience with this pairing?  At the very least this can let me get a taste for dynamic drivers and a side-by-side comparison with the LCD-X.  Any idea if these two headphones would make a good complementing pair?


----------



## DavidA

@cbl117, The LCD-X and HD-650 are more alike than different to me, LCD-X is neutral-warm while HD-650 is on the warmer side.  I've never tried the ifi micro iDSD but have seen it mentioned a few times as being a good pairing with the HD-650 and a few other headphones.  Would like to hear your impressions when you get it.
  
 As for the output power, the specs only show the rating up to 64ohms (1560mw) in turbo mode, what you is needed is the output @300ohms, which I think would be much lower but still more than enough to drive the HD-650.  Just by looking the specs the micro iDSD looks like it will pair great with the LCD-X.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> @cbl117, The LCD-X and HD-650 are more alike than different to me, LCD-X is neutral-warm while HD-650 is on the warmer side.  I've never tried the ifi micro iDSD but have seen it mentioned a few times as being a good pairing with the HD-650 and a few other headphones.  Would like to hear your impressions when you get it.
> 
> As for the output power, the specs only show the rating up to 64ohms (1560mw) in turbo mode, what you is needed is the output @300ohms, which I think would be much lower but still more than enough to drive the HD-650.  Just by looking the specs the micro iDSD looks like it will pair great with the LCD-X.


 
  
 I'll let you know my impressions.


----------



## kejar31

I had an opportunity to check out a few amps at a meet this last weekend… I thought I would post some impressions of how the lyr2 (gold lions) / Bifrost 4490 held up against some other amps..
 Headphones used
 HE-6
 LCD-X
 HD800 (un-moded)
  
 Lyr2
 Really the Lyr2 sounded friggin awesome with all the headphones I tried.. It also sounded really great with the HD800 and I now think this would be a great combo.. The LCD-X also sounded good on the Lyr2, in fact I think the LCD-X’s sounded almost as good,  if not better on the lyr2 than any amp I tried..  The best match by far though was the HE-6.. With the Lyr2 the HE-6’s just sounded amazing.. Man I will be thinking about this combo for some time… LOVE THEM together.
  
 Burson Audio HA-160D
 This amp sounded really good with the HD800, this combo was not better than the Lyr2 per say but sounded as goodm, with a slightly warmer sound sig. With the LCD-X it was just two warm and made X’s sound like LCD-2’s. As with all other amps on this list, this amp did not properly power the HE-6..
  
 Audio-gd NFB10ES
 I really did not like this amp/dac on any of the headphones I tried.. It sounded good just not as good as the Lyr2.. Was just too dry and boring.
  
 Decware Zen Taboo / CSP3
 The Taboo was used on the orthos and the CSP3 (OTL) was used with the HD800
 Sadly the Taboo just didn’t have the juice to power the to power the HE-6.. With the LCD-X it sounded fantastic but no better than the Lyr2, none that I could discern at least.. On the other hand the HD800 with the CSP3 was a fantastic combo. This combo made the HD800’s give me the chills (raised arm hairs) when listening to Bob Dylan’s Blowin’ in the wind, just beautiful…


----------



## Supurderek

Makes me sad since I want to grab some for myself now.


----------



## ButchP

Was the Lyr2 able to tame the sibilance endemic to the HD800s? I preferred the Bererdynamic DT 880 Pro to the HD 800 on all but 1 of the 6 popular headphone amps I auditioned them with. Unfortunately, the Lyr2 wasn't available to make direct comparison. The Macintosh MHA100 ($4500.00!!) made most of the headphones I sampled sound great.


----------



## wadi

butchp said:


> Was the Lyr2 able to tame the sibilance endemic to the HD800s? I preferred the Bererdynamic DT 880 Pro to the HD 800 on all but 1 of the 6 popular headphone amps I auditioned them with. Unfortunately, the Lyr2 wasn't available to make direct comparison. The Macintosh MHA100 ($4500.00!!) made most of the headphones I sampled sound great.


 
 I haven't heard Lyr2/Hd800 combo however i doubt Lyr2 will tame highs of Hd800. Lyr2 is a warm amp but it is prone to be sibilant when paired with some open/airy sounding cans.


----------



## DavidA

butchp said:


> Was the Lyr2 able to tame the sibilance endemic to the HD800s? I preferred the Bererdynamic DT 880 Pro to the HD 800 on all but 1 of the 6 popular headphone amps I auditioned them with. Unfortunately, the Lyr2 wasn't available to make direct comparison. The Macintosh MHA100 ($4500.00!!) made most of the headphones I sampled sound great.


 
 The Lyr2 even with warm tubes will not always tame the sibilance of the HD-800, the only under $500 amp that I know of that pairs well with the HD-800 is the BH Crack (TS-5998 power and Telefunken driver).
  
 Heard the MHA-100, its a beast of an amp and while it does pair well with the HD-800, the EC Balancing Act, Liquid Glass and WA22 (tubes based amps) do a slightly better job of driving the HD-800 to me when I got to listen to this gear at a friends house a while back.


----------



## kejar31

butchp said:


> Was the Lyr2 able to tame the sibilance endemic to the HD800s? I preferred the Bererdynamic DT 880 Pro to the HD 800 on all but 1 of the 6 popular headphone amps I auditioned them with. Unfortunately, the Lyr2 wasn't available to make direct comparison. The Macintosh MHA100 ($4500.00!!) made most of the headphones I sampled sound great.




There was some siblance but its not as bad as people make it out to be.. At least not on the pair I heard


----------



## CFGamescape

I will be selling my Lyr 2 soon. Let me know if anyone in CONUS is interested.


----------



## KeithG

Birthday presents arrived yesterday and I unwrapped my Schiit Lyr 2 headphone amplifier, a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys from Mercedesman and two Novib socket savers. It's early days yet, or so I'm led to believe, but wow, I am totally blown away! I already have a Little Dot Mk3 with NOS Novosibirsk valves, a Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 and heavily modded V3. I have three pairs of Grados, including the lovely sounding Bushmills, Senn HD600, AKG K702 and Audeze LCD2(F). The LD works great with the Sennheisers, I love the Grado Bushmills through either of the X-Cans and the AKGs provide another presentation, which up to now is why I thought I liked playing with headphones. As for the LCDs, well they never really sung and always left me a bit disappointed - but that has all changed.

The Lyr 2 combined with the LCDs just seems to make everything else sound totally redundant - even the Bushmills, my favourite cans before now, don't sound quite right. Where before I could change things around and hear differences, now it all just sounds wrong - except that is for the Lyr 2/LCD combo, which is detailed, textured, spacious and so, so real.


----------



## DavidA

@KeithG, nice setup, you headphone tables is so much more organized than mine, I like the (JW Blue?) bottle headphone stand


----------



## KeithG

davida said:


> @KeithG
> , nice setup, you headphone tables is so much more organized than mine, I like the (JW Blue?) bottle headphone stand




Thanks, though they were simply organised temporarily for the photo. It's a vintage blue/green Bushmills bottle with an oak base for my Grado Bushmills cans.


----------



## DavidA

@KeithG, did you make most of those headphone stands?  some nice working.


----------



## KeithG

@DavidA I can't take the credit, they are from Oscars Audio, here in the UK. I put the Bushmills stand together with some help from a friend - those cans deserve special treatment - or at least I thought that until I heard the LCD 2 powered by the Lyr.


----------



## DavidA

keithg said:


> @DavidA I can't take the credit, they are from Oscars Audio, here in the UK. I put the Bushmills stand together with some help from a friend - those cans deserve special treatment - or at least I thought that until I heard the LCD 2 powered by the Lyr.


 

 I've been searching for stands for a long time and come to the conclusion that I will have to design and build them my self since I have a few specific criteria that needs to be addressed, height adjustable (just in case I change my listening table and able to used either on table or floor), hold no less than 4, prefer 6 per stand, have a curved padded area that supports the headband, and be able to disassemble them in the event that I move.  I found the height adjustment solution (tripod legs) and the curved padded area (8" PVC pipe cut into quarters and covered with memory foam and leather).  Haven't come up with a good design for mounting the 1/4 PVC sections to the tripod legs yet.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> @cbl117, The LCD-X and HD-650 are more alike than different to me, LCD-X is neutral-warm while HD-650 is on the warmer side.  I've never tried the ifi micro iDSD but have seen it mentioned a few times as being a good pairing with the HD-650 and a few other headphones.  Would like to hear your impressions when you get it.
> 
> As for the output power, the specs only show the rating up to 64ohms (1560mw) in turbo mode, what you is needed is the output @300ohms, which I think would be much lower but still more than enough to drive the HD-650.  Just by looking the specs the micro iDSD looks like it will pair great with the LCD-X.


 
  
 DavidA, I have some iDSD/HD650 impressions and a comparison between Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X to keep the post relevant to the thread.
  
 iDSD/650:
 I found the iDSD slightly bright and hard sounding fresh out of the box, but that perception went away over ~50 hours and I feel the iDSD sounds about neutral.  The iDSD drives the 650s nicely with plenty of power to spare.  I have the volume at 11-12 o'clock at normal power mode (middle position).  The iDSD/650 pairing is neutral, slightly lean sounding (analytical), and has a nice sense of air/separation.  Sound stage is good width-wise, but slightly less good depth-wise.  The vocals/image are missing that last bit of focus though.  I used Amber Rubarth Sessions from the 17th Ward to check soundstage.
  
 Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X:
 It was interesting to find the bimby/lyr 2/LCD-X combo as being more veiled sounding compared to the iDSD/650, IMO.  The presentation was a little further back with slightly warmer tonality.  This combo did not have the same sense of air that the iDSD/650 had and the soundstage was a little more "in your head".    The resolving power is definitely greater in this setup, and vocals/image had more focus.
  
 This realization has me a little perplexed as I thought the bimby/Lyr 2/LCD-X would just blow the iDSD/650 out of the water.  So I'm trying to decide if I'm rather impressed with the iDSD/650 or slightly disappointed with the Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X.  One thing I'll take away from this is I tend to like the leaner/analytical sound signature rather than warm/thick/lush sound signature that I feel the Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X tends to have IMO.
  
 Can anyone confirm or deny my claims?  I'm by no means an expert reviewer or blessed with golden ears, so I welcome feedback that will help me sort out what I'm hearing.
  
 Footnotes:
 Lyr 2 is running 60's Amperex Bugle Boys 6DJ8 and LCD-X has Charleston Cable UP-OCC cable.  I did the comparison using two separate macs running Audirvana Plus with USB out to each setup.  Files are identical between the two sources.
  
 UPDATE:  Did some blind testing with my wife who has ultra sensitive sensory lol.
  
 Test setup was the following:
 HD650 ----> iDSD....OR....Lyr2/Bimby
 LCD-X-----> iDSD....OR.....Lyr2/Bimby
  
*For each of the two headphones:  We both were not able to correctly guess which amp/dac combo was being used with any statistical relevance.*


----------



## DavidA

@cbl117 the Amperex bugle boys are warm tubes so that might be why the Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X is sounding warm and veiled.  Might want to try RCA clear tops, Voskhods, Reflectors or Telefunkens for a more neutral to slightly bright sound.
  
 Your impressions seem pretty close to what I would think they would be


----------



## kejar31

yeah I have a pair of Electro-Harmonix gold pin 6992's that I used in my Bifrost 4490/Lyr2 --> LCD-X's.. They were to warm and I really did not like the sound (very similar experience to what you mentioned with your X's, muddy and veiled)... I actually liked the stock tubes more than those with the X's... I am using some Genalex Gold Lion's now and they are a great match for the X's.... With the Gold Lions the setup sounds amazing to me.


----------



## DavidA

kejar31 said:


> yeah I have a pair of Electro-Harmonix gold pin 6992's that I used in my Bifrost 4490/Lyr2 --> LCD-X's.. They were to warm and I really did not like the sound (very similar experience to what you mentioned with your X's, muddy and veiled)... I actually liked the stock tubes more than those with the X's... I am using some Genalex Gold Lion's now and they are a great match for the X's.... With the Gold Lions the setup sounds amazing to me.


 
 The Electro-Harmonix are also on the warm side, Gold Lions are close to neutral, maybe a touch on the bright side.  One of the better neutral tubes for the price is the Siemens Lorenz, very reasonable but great sounding.


----------



## kejar31

davida said:


> The Electro-Harmonix are also on the warm side, Gold Lions are close to neutral, maybe a touch on the bright side.  One of the better neutral tubes for the price is the RCA clear tops, very reasonable but great sounding.




Are the clear tops a 6992 tube?


----------



## DavidA

kejar31 said:


> Are the clear tops a 6992 tube?


 
 Thanks for the catch, got the tubes and amps mixed up since I was posting in another thread, the RCA clear top is a 12AU7, the tube that I was thinking of are 6922/6JD8 is the Siemens Lorenz.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> Thanks for the catch, got the tubes and amps mixed up since I was posting in another thread, the RCA clear top is a 12AU7, the tube that I was thinking of are 6922/6JD8 is the Siemens Lorenz.


 

 @DavidA, how much improvement in sound signature can I realistically expect from a tube roll?  I ask because I'm reading that the Bimby is known to be warm, so that's got me worried now.  Is the Siemens Lorenz the tube you'd recommend the most?  Any other tubes in the $200/pr price point?


----------



## kejar31

I would start here
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NEW-Genalex-Gold-Lion-E88CC-6922-Vacuum-Tubes-TESTED-Matched-Pair-/300741379240


----------



## Jiexi

kejar31 said:


> yeah I have a pair of Electro-Harmonix gold pin 6992's that I used in my Bifrost 4490/Lyr2 --> LCD-X's.. They were to warm and I really did not like the sound (very similar experience to what you mentioned with your X's, muddy and veiled)... I actually liked the stock tubes more than those with the X's... I am using some Genalex Gold Lion's now and they are a great match for the X's.... With the Gold Lions the setup sounds amazing to me.


 
 Have you happened to test the schiit stack with LCD3s? I'm guessing it won't sound good either.


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> @cbl117 the Amperex bugle boys are warm tubes so that might be why the Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X is sounding warm and veiled.  Might want to try RCA clear tops, Voskhods, Reflectors or Telefunkens for a more neutral to slightly bright sound.
> 
> Your impressions seem pretty close to what I would think they would be


 

@DavidA I did some extensive comparisons between the Bimby and my Ayre QB-9 from my 2-channel.  The setup had both DACs --> Lyr 2 w/ Bugle Boy 6DJ8 --> LCD-X w/ UP-OCC Cable.  I've concluded that the Bimby has a little bit of bloat and lack of refinement in the lower-mid frequencies that comes across as perceived warmth with less controlled bass and soundstage congestion (muddiness), IMO.  The Ayre QB-9 did not exhibit this, and resulted in perceived neutrality and better control over the entire audible frequency spectrum.  This created the sense of air and separation between the instruments.  My wife, god bless her for playing along, also concluded the vocals were smoother overall on the Ayre.  I also noticed the vocals had more bloom with the Ayre.  So I'm attributing the muddier vocals on the Bimby from the "warmth" it adds, IMO
  
 Now all that said, the differences are subtle and not meant to imply the bimby is bad.  If you consider the price delta of ~$2,000 the bimby does a rather nice job.  But I heard what I'm missing, and I think you all know how that goes...
  
 So the question is, can I roll tubes such as NOS telefunken 6922 into the Lyr2 to compensate for my perceived shortcomings of the Bimby?  Or am I chasing my tail (wasting money) by trying to apply a bandaid (tube rolling)?
  
 As always, appreciate your help.  Others please feel free to jump into the conversation.


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> @DavidA I did some extensive comparisons between the Bimby and my Ayre QB-9 from my 2-channel.  The setup had both DACs --> Lyr 2 w/ Bugle Boy 6DJ8 --> LCD-X w/ UP-OCC Cable.  I've concluded that the Bimby has a little bit of bloat and lack of refinement in the lower-mid frequencies that comes across as perceived warmth with less controlled bass and soundstage congestion (muddiness), IMO.  The Ayre QB-9 did not exhibit this, and resulted in perceived neutrality and better control over the entire audible frequency spectrum.  This created the sense of air and separation between the instruments.  My wife, god bless her for playing along, also concluded the vocals were smoother overall on the Ayre.  I also noticed the vocals had more bloom with the Ayre.  So I'm attributing the muddier vocals on the Bimby from the "warmth" it adds, IMO
> 
> Now all that said, the differences are subtle and not meant to imply the bimby is bad.  If you consider the price delta of ~$2,000 the bimby does a rather nice job.  But I heard what I'm missing, and I think you all know how that goes...
> 
> ...


 

 At the current prices for Telefunken CCa's, I would look at another DAC, I have a Bimby but actually like my old Uber more, I've also heard the 4490 and its slightly sounding than the Uber and Bimby to me at least.  I think you might have given me the reason why I like my UD-301 better than the Bimby, its just seems a touch more dynamic and extended than the Bimby and my GF says she also likes the UD-301 signature.
  
 As for the chasing your tail, only you can really say.


----------



## kejar31

jiexi said:


> Have you happened to test the schiit stack with LCD3s? I'm guessing it won't sound good either.


 
  
 No I have not... Sorry


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> At the current prices for Telefunken CCa's, I would look at another DAC, I have a Bimby but actually like my old Uber more, I've also heard the 4490 and its slightly sounding than the Uber and Bimby to me at least.  I think you might have given me the reason why I like my UD-301 better than the Bimby, its just seems a touch more dynamic and extended than the Bimby and my GF says she also likes the UD-301 signature.
> 
> As for the chasing your tail, only you can really say.


 

 Does the Bimby require many hours to burn in and settle?  Will I notice any improvements if I keep with it for a bit longer?
  
 I'm thinking about the following options:
  
 Living with Bimby/Lyr 2 and rolling in telefunken 6922
 Gumby/Mjolnir2 combo
 Ayre codex with external amp
 Moon 430HAD
 Stretching into dream realm (i.e. would have to find second hand):  Auralic Vega/Taurus Mk2
  
 Any experience with these setups, or general recommendations?


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> Does the Bimby require many hours to burn in and settle?  Will I notice any improvements if I keep with it for a bit longer?
> 
> I'm thinking about the following options:
> 
> ...


 
 I leave my Bimby and Uber on 24/7, didn't notice any improvements over time but they both sound a little more dynamic after getting to operating temp and since I usually have the AC on it would take quite a long time to warm up.
  
 I have tried a Gumby/Mjolnir2 setup, it was just a touch better than the Bimby/Lyr2 only if you run your system in balanced mode from DAC to amp to headphone.
 Haven't heard the Ayre Codex, seems interesting but pretty pricey.
 Moon 430HAD also looks interesting but I haven't done much research on it.
  
 My proposed upgrade/update path:
 DAC: MHDT Pagoda, AudioGD Master7 or Metrum Acoustics Musette
 AMP: Heron5, Elise and or used Liquid Glass
  
 One thing to consider is the headphones that you have and would like to get in the future.  If you plan on getting or have HD-800/S, T1 or any other high impedance headphones then I would get something other than the Bimby/Lyr2 or Gumby/Mjolnir2.  This is why the Elise is on my radar since the HD-800/S and T1 owners all love them paired with the Elise.  If you are staying mostly with planars like Audeze or Hifiman then the Moon 430HAD or Master 11 would make a better pairing.
  
 Hope my short ramble helps you figure out your path


----------



## thewatcher101

Does anyone hear a difference between high and low gain. When I set it on high gain it sounds like there is more bass and I get a fuller sound given the same volume. The HD650 is great on high gain, and the LCD-2 likes it on low, on high it makes the LCD-2 very muddy.
  
 Current tubes are EH Gold Pin 6922
  
 Which would be a better pick for my next tubes to try?
  
 Genalex Gold Lion or Telefunken Elektroakustik E88CC-TK


----------



## DavidA

thewatcher101 said:


> Does anyone hear a difference between high and low gain. When I set it on high gain it sounds like there is more bass and I get a fuller sound given the same volume. The HD650 is great on high gain, and the LCD-2 likes it on low, on high it makes the LCD-2 very muddy.
> 
> Current tubes are EH Gold Pin 6922
> 
> ...


 
 I've only really noticed the difference with my HE-560, on low gain it sounds lifeless.  I don't use the Lyr2 for the HD-650 since it sounds better on the BH Crack or Ember to me.
  
 As for tubes, the Gold Lions are fairly neutral to me while Telefunkens tend to be neutral/bright but more dynamic with a cleaner top end IMO.


----------



## kejar31

The only difference between high gain and low gain is that a pair of resistors are swapped out for another set with a different value. There is no difference in SQ..


----------



## cbl117

davida said:


> I've only really noticed the difference with my HE-560, on low gain it sounds lifeless.  I don't use the Lyr2 for the HD-650 since it sounds better on the BH Crack or Ember to me.
> 
> As for tubes, the Gold Lions are fairly neutral to me while Telefunkens tend to be neutral/bright but more dynamic with a cleaner top end IMO.


 

@DavidA , would you say telefunkens are more resolving?  Can a tube add resolving power to a setup?  I.e. Bimby/Lyr2?


----------



## DavidA

cbl117 said:


> @DavidA , would you say telefunkens are more resolving?  Can a tube add resolving power to a setup?  I.e. Bimby/Lyr2?


 

 I wouldn't call them more resolving, more like a different sound signature, they don't color the sound as much as say a Bugle Boy.
  
 As for tubes adding resolving power, I don't think so unless you consider cleaner less colored as adding resolving power.


----------



## kejar31

If anyone is interested I have a matched pair of Electro Harmonix 6922's up for sale.. I personally didnt feel these worked with the LCD-X but may sound great with other headphones... Only about 6 hours on them
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813393/matched-pair-electro-harmonix-6922-gold-pins


----------



## thewatcher101

I have the eh 6922 and after comparing with my other gear there is a lot of bass for these tube. I might need to go to more neutral tubes like the gold lion


----------



## kejar31

thewatcher101 said:


> I have the eh 6922 and after comparing with my other gear there is a lot of bass for these tube. I might need to go to more neutral tubes like the gold lion




Yeah the GL's are definetly a more neutral/somewhat on the bright side tube..


----------



## giraz

Hi to all,
any thought about comparison of Lyr 2 and Elekit TU-882? I'm interested in both of them. (Consider that the cost to get them in Italy would be about the same, Elekit is in kit but this is not a problem, I would consider a plus). 
I have a pair of Audeze Sine and a Fiio X5 II as source/DAC. I'm thinking about Schiit Modi Multibit as future upgrade. 
Any suggestion would be appreciated, thanx.


----------



## ButchP

Thanks for the post! I can't help you with the comparison as I have not heard the Elekit you refer to. I have the Lyr 2 and a Bifrost multibit DAC and love this combination. Your reference to a Modi Multibit is what drew my attention to this thread. I had no idea it existed. How long has the Modi Multi been available?


----------



## giraz

Not sure but I think from beginning of 2016


----------



## DavidA

giraz said:


> Hi to all,
> any thought about comparison of Lyr 2 and Elekit TU-882? I'm interested in both of them. (Consider that the cost to get them in Italy would be about the same, Elekit is in kit but this is not a problem, I would consider a plus).
> I have a pair of Audeze Sine and a Fiio X5 II as source/DAC. I'm thinking about Schiit Modi Multibit as future upgrade.
> Any suggestion would be appreciated, thanx.


 
 After looking at the specs of the Elekit TU-882 its not as powerful as the Lyr2 but then it also depends on what headphones you plan to get other than the Sine.  If getting hard to drive planar then the Lyr2 might be a better choice but for high impedance headphones it looks like the TU-882 might be a better fit.
  
 I would not get the Modi MB, a few that have gotten it on other threads have sent it back since there was no improvement to them over the 4490 Modi2uber.  I have the Bifrost MB and an Uber, after hearing my friends 4490 Bifrost I liked it better than the MB so going to do the 4490 update to my Uber later but looking at a MHDT Pagoda first.
  
 While I don't have the X5ii, my X3ii does a good job as a souce/DAC with the line out so the X5ii being slightly better specs wise the Modi MB would not be worth it IMO.


----------



## r2muchstuff

IMHO the Modi MB does sound different than the Modi 2 Uber 4490.  And again, IMHO the difference is better 
  
 I have Lyr 2 with Bifrost MB and plan to try the Lyr 2 with the Modi MB soon, but cannot right now.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Matro5

I've got the Lyr2 and am considering the Modi MB. Looking forward to your impressions...


----------



## giraz

Thanx for your opinions. 
I'm really happy with Audeze Sine, and if I would buy other headphones (in the far future because for now I have no budget for new headphones) I think I will go with other Audeze model. 
So at the moment the best fit for me would be the Elekit TU-882...

About DAC: I would think a dedicated dac would be a better improvement over Fiio X5 II..


----------



## DavidA

giraz said:


> Thanx for your opinions.
> I'm really happy with Audeze Sine, and if I would buy other headphones (in the far future because for now I have no budget for new headphones) I think I will go with other Audeze model.
> So at the moment the best fit for me would be the Elekit TU-882...
> 
> About DAC: I would think a dedicated dac would be a better improvement over Fiio X5 II..


 
 If you can demo them first I would suggest doing that first, what sounds good to me may not sound good to you.  Best way to find out what I liked was to do blind A/B testing, that way I had no expectation bias.


----------



## bclark8923

I was wondering if anyone tried this amp with the LISST and IEMS and how they found it? Any hiss/too much power? Looking for an all in one amp solution


----------



## sikki-six

I have the Lyr 2 and just ordered Modi MB a few days ago, I'll keep you guys posted. I've been using the 1st gen Apogee Duet as my DAC for years, this will be my my first stand-alone DAC. I've been skeptical of really meaningful differences between quality DAC-gadgets, but the Modi MB's reasonable pricing got me curious. I use LISSTs most of the time.


----------



## sikki-six

bclark8923 said:


> I was wondering if anyone tried this amp with the LISST and IEMS and how they found it? Any hiss/too much power? Looking for an all in one amp solution


 
  
 Just trying my Shozy Zeros @ low gain. There's some low humming starting when the volume is pushed to 2 o'clock and beyond, but I don't need to push them anywhere near those levels. 10 o'clock is quite loud. So no problems here.


----------



## ahmad-bayern

Hello everyone .. I want some help 
I've got AMP/DAC which is NFB-11 and I've decided to buy a new AMP , so I bought Lyr2 , and to use tge DAC slide which is in NFB-11 and to use lyr2 as AMP.
But in NFB-11's options , there're some choices in Output as you see in the image


  


, and each option has a different sound , so what should I choose ? ( HP or Variable Fixed ) ? 
My second question: Do I have to choose low gain or high gain in NFB-11 ? (and) in lyr2 , I choose low or high gain ? 
Can I use NFB-11 as DAC only and turn its AMP off ?
And for record my headphone is ZMF OMNI.
I wish you can help me out here 
	

 thx


----------



## r2muchstuff

My choice would be:
  
 Fixed
  
 I do not have a NFB so not sure about my next statement.
  
 Gain and volume should not matter, no affect.  HP would be double amping for sure.  Variable, will let you decrease line out volume if fixed is overdriving the Lyr 2.
  
 Just try stuff until you are happy 
  
 Just MHO,
 r2
  
 Ps;  Gain on Lyr should be matched to the needs of your HPs and you.


----------



## kejar31

Got a little tired of worrying about leaving my Lyr2 on so I picked up some LYSST tubes for non critical listening. Actually like them a lot.. They have a very fast punchy sound to them, great for rock music!..
  
 Obligatory pic


----------



## White Lotus

Hey guys, 
  
 I'm interested in the Lyr 2. I've had my eye on it for a while now.
  
 Two questions:
  
 - Is it worth getting over the Lyr 1? The original can be found for pretty cheap.
  
 - Are the LISST flat response?


----------



## DavidA

white lotus said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm interested in the Lyr 2. I've had my eye on it for a while now.
> 
> ...


 
 Depends on the headphones you have, if you don't need the low gain then the Lyr1 can roll more tubes.
  
 The LISST were like using my Asgard2, maybe a touch brighter to me


----------



## DivergeUnify

kejar31 said:


> Got a little tired of worrying about leaving my Lyr2 on so I picked up some LYSST tubes for non critical listening. Actually like them a lot.. They have a very fast punchy sound to them, great for rock music!..
> 
> Obligatory pic




Really sweet looking. 

I'm thinking about adding a pair of LISST to the mix for my LCD3s. Running Amperex PQs right now, but figure a snappier, more 'solid' option would be nice

Also most likely adding a Bifrost Multibit soon, so your pic is giving me a nice look to the future


----------



## qiujiaheng

Has Anyone compared it to HDVD800?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

qiujiaheng said:


> Has Anyone compared it to HDVD800?



I have, driving the HiFiMAN HE1000 headphone....see post pointed to in my signature with title like "HE1000...5 amps."

The Schiit Lyr 2 did better on the HE1000 than the HDVD 800 (which also did quite well), perhaps because the HE 1000 has a 35 ohm (+/- 5) input impedance, while the HDVD800 has a 43 ohm output impedance, opti,owed for the 300 - 600 ohm input impedance of the Sennheiser HD 800 but not so great for lower impedances.


----------



## tjc303

I've had an original Lyr for approximately 5 years.  My main "go to" headphone with my Schiit Bifrost Uber and Lyr stack has been the LCD-2 rev1.  I do not use this headphone on any other setup, though I do use other headphones with this stack.  I have rolled a fair amount of tubes...Amerprex Orange Globes and PQs, Voskhod 6H23s, Reflector 6H23s, RCA  6BZ7s, and GE 6BZ7s.  Always felt that the LCD-2s were too bass heavy and somewhat fatiguing. Also, the soundstage was not as wide as I'd like or that I am at least familiar with my other listening setups.  I was seriously considering replacing the LCD-2s with a brighter headphone with a wider soundstage.
  
 I just picked up a Lyr 2 and currently and using JJ 6922 Gold Pins.  On high gain, my initial impressions were that there was not a discernible difference between the Lyr and the Lyr 2.  At low gain however, the entire setup has taken on a completely new sound signature.  The low end is balanced.  The mids are smooth. The treble is not fatiguing.  And best of all the soundstage is incredibly wider..."out of my head" wider.  
  
 There is no possible way that I am imagining this difference in sound signature as I can A-B test it with the gain switch and volume knob.  It seems the comments are all over the map on they thread, but has anyone else experienced this level of improvement with the Lyr 2?  Needless to say, I am ecstatic with my recent amp switch.


----------



## mortcola

Well I just turned on Diana Krall Quiet Nights with Grado PS1000e on the same set-up (Bifrost Uber, Lyr2), hi-res file. First impressions are that the meds both focused and sweetened overall stage widened without losing focus - sweeter in subtle ways that do not roll off the highs or soften anything.  A little like putting the signal back in phase after realizing it had been mistakenly out. I'll leave it this way for a few days and then A-B it to see if this is a novelty reaction. Thanks for the impressions.


----------



## DavidA

tjc303 said:


> I've had an original Lyr for approximately 5 years.  My main "go to" headphone with my Schiit Bifrost Uber and Lyr stack has been the LCD-2 rev1.  I do not use this headphone on any other setup, though I do use other headphones with this stack.  I have rolled a fair amount of tubes...Amerprex Orange Globes and PQs, Voskhod 6H23s, Reflector 6H23s, RCA  6BZ7s, and GE 6BZ7s.  Always felt that the LCD-2s were too bass heavy and somewhat fatiguing. Also, the soundstage was not as wide as I'd like or that I am at least familiar with my other listening setups.  I was seriously considering replacing the LCD-2s with a brighter headphone with a wider soundstage.
> 
> I just picked up a Lyr 2 and currently and using JJ 6922 Gold Pins.  On high gain, my initial impressions were that there was not a discernible difference between the Lyr and the Lyr 2.  At low gain however, the entire setup has taken on a completely new sound signature.  The low end is balanced.  The mids are smooth. The treble is not fatiguing.  And best of all the soundstage is incredibly wider..."out of my head" wider.
> 
> There is no possible way that I am imagining this difference in sound signature as I can A-B test it with the gain switch and volume knob.  It seems the comments are all over the map on they thread, but has anyone else experienced this level of improvement with the Lyr 2?  Needless to say, I am ecstatic with my recent amp switch.


 
 Tried with my HE-560 and it sounded lifeless, also had to turn the volume almost all the way up so it was starting to get glaring in the mids.  I'll try with a few different tubes and headphones later to see if there is a difference.


----------



## ScareDe2

Going from magni to lyr 2 is a significant upgrade. Details and power are much better. But I think with a modi2 DAC the sound is quite unexciting and lifeless. The power and the details are there but it's so boring to listen.
  
 Any DAC recommendations to go with the lcd2 + lyr2, or should I upgrade the stock tube first? thank for any suggestions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 * I must admit the stock canadian tubes only has less than 10 hours.


----------



## franzdom

Get some decent tubes and think about a multi-bit DAC. I have same amp & HP btw, the stock tubes are underwhelming.


----------



## ScareDe2

franzdom said:


> Get some decent tubes and think about a multi-bit DAC. I have same amp & HP btw, the stock tubes are underwhelming.


 
  
 Hi,
 will I get sonic improvement by upgrading from modi 2 to bifrost? Are you satisfied with your current setup or do you want to upgrade an element? thanks for any information


----------



## franzdom

For separate DAC's (not in phone, receiver, CD player etc) I have never heard anything but Schiit Multibit. Modi & Bifrost are supposed to be basically the same, the real difference is if you go multibit or not.
  
 Satisfied? Yes, quite, though it may be interesting to try Mjolnir or Jotenheim and balanced cable runs. For Single End cables I think I am at end game.


----------



## Gimpinchair

scarede2 said:


> Hi,
> will I get sonic improvement by upgrading from modi 2 to bifrost? Are you satisfied with your current setup or do you want to upgrade an element? thanks for any information




I'm looking to sell my BifrostMB, if you're interested in it you can PM me.


----------



## sikki-six

I just wrote about going from a pretty good delta-sigma DAC (Apogee Duet) to Modi MultiBit on the ModiBit thread. These experiences mostly apply to my LCD-2.1 and completely apply to Lyr 2, my only full-sized amp. Check out that thread if you're interested.


----------



## FumblingFoo

I'm an audio equipment enthusiast but a relatively casual listener new to impressions, not able to discern some of the finer differences like the experts, so take what I say with at least a grain of salt. I could, however, tell differences between the v850 and Bifrost Uber DAC's. The main difference between the DAC's was that the v850 didn't produce a metallic tinge like the Bifrost. I was also able to tell the differences between the Beyer T90 and HifiMan HE-1000 headphones (and a couple of other cheaper ones that I have). So, I'm not completely tone deaf 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am comparing today:
  
 Violectric v850 RCA (unbalanced) ->* Schiit Lyr 2* with* "*Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin! (Select Grade: Platinum Grade, Cryogenically Treated: No, Matching: Included)" from Upscale Audio
  
 vs.
  
 Violectric v850 XLR (balanced) -> *Violectric V281* single-ended (unbalanced) out
  
  
 A/B tested (not blind) with a pair of Beyer T90's & HE-1K's (single ended cable), volume matched. Sescom 3.5mm A/B switch, and a couple of Amazon basics 3.5mm cables. No special cables for the setup except the seller's in-house RCA / XLR DAC -> amp internconnects.
  
  
 Impressions: The difference between the Lyr 2 with the Amperex tubes and v281 is virtually indistinguishable to me; to my ears, switching between the two amps made *no difference* to my ears. As far as the sound itself, I parrot other impressions that it just sounded "correct." What I'm saying is not that the v281 isn't a stellar amp for its price - its quite the authoritative amp especially with hard-to-drive headphones according to the experts - but that there comes a point where one just doesn't have any problems with the quality of sound through one's setup, the music simply being quite enjoyable. The Lyr 2 with a good DAC is clearly beyond that threshold, and the bottom line is that I enjoyed music listening out of both, hearing no noticeable flaws in sound out of either amp.  So the Lyr 2 with a great DAC and tubes punches way above its price point. With the Lyr 2 money-wise you can be pretty sure that you're both getting your money's worth and will enjoy the sound. So, given enough financial resources, if you're a casual listener or don't have "golden ears" (even with tested excellent hearing like me) I'd devote more funds to a quality set of headphones and a quality DAC instead of buying an amp more expensive than the Lyr 2. Like the V281, the Lyr 2 eats up anything thrown at it and doesn't change the sound much.
  
  
 Note: The v281 in SE mode is basically the v220, because they both use the same amp chips. I have the balanced input cable for the HE-1K's but I can't A/B test with them because of my setup.


----------



## jrflanne

kejar31 said:


> Got a little tired of worrying about leaving my Lyr2 on so I picked up some LYSST tubes for non critical listening. Actually like them a lot.. They have a very fast punchy sound to them, great for rock music!..
> 
> Obligatory pic



I leave mine on most of the time. I have a valhalla2 in my home office that generally stays on as well. That one is about 2.5 years old. Tubes are fine. I have the lysst Ss and didn't really like them so they sit.


----------



## Pacifica

scarede2 said:


> Going from magni to lyr 2 is a significant upgrade. Details and power are much better. But I think with a modi2 DAC the sound is quite unexciting and lifeless. The power and the details are there but it's so boring to listen.
> 
> Any DAC recommendations to go with the lcd2 + lyr2, or should I upgrade the stock tube first? thank for any suggestions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just picked up the Modi Multibit and I am loving the combination. Upgraded from an original Modi.


----------



## Madman242

Since getting my Lyr a couple years ago, there have been a couple questions that cross my mind every time I go to do them, but never found a good answer....
  
 When switching the gain, I've always played it safe, turning the amp off first and waiting a minute before switching it. Is this necessary? I've always wondered. Is it ok to switch it while still on, with volume at zero?
  
 Also, what is the best time to plug and unplug headphones? I currently do it while the unit is on, and volume at zero. Is it safer for the unit to be off?


----------



## DavidA

madman242 said:


> Since getting my Lyr a couple years ago, there have been a couple questions that cross my mind every time I go to do them, but never found a good answer....
> 
> When switching the gain, I've always played it safe, turning the amp off first and waiting a minute before switching it. Is this necessary? I've always wondered. Is it ok to switch it while still on, with volume at zero?
> 
> Also, what is the best time to plug and unplug headphones? I currently do it while the unit is on, and volume at zero. Is it safer for the unit to be off?


 
 Posted this also in the HE-560 thread about the Lyr2, don't have to turn off the amp to switch the gain but would recommend turning the volume to zero first.  As for plugging and unplugging, I usually unplug the headphones before turning off and I wait about 30secs once I turn on the amp before plugging in the headphones.


----------



## Madman242

Thanks David. Yeah, I was pretty tired when I posted it over there and realized it probably wasn't the most appropriate place.
  
 Are you aware of any technical reasons for this? or it's your feeling that it's the best practise?


----------



## DavidA

madman242 said:


> Thanks David. Yeah, I was pretty tired when I posted it over there and realized it probably wasn't the most appropriate place.
> 
> Are you aware of any technical reasons for this? or it's your feeling that it's the best practise?


 
 I think someone had asked the question a long time ago about changing the gain setting and Schiit said it was okay to change the gain while on, just lower the volume when doing so.  As far as "best" practice, I would always unplug headphone before changing gain or turning off or on, but this is just me being paranoid and on the safe side.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

New to the forum here. I have a pair of Hifiman 400i's that I really like. I currently power them with a Schiit Vali (first version). I primarily listen to vinyl with my modified Technics 1200 with a Denon 101 MC cart with a Lounge phono stage. I mostly listen to metal, classic rock, and progressive metal/rock. I am very, very interested in the Lyr 2 as an upgrade, as I feel it is the next logical step to upgrade my system from the Vali. The Vali has done well, but I feel it is under-powering the 400i's. Sorry if somebody has already answered this, but it would be difficult to sift through 100+ pages. Anybody have experience with the Lyr 2 and the 400i's (or even 400 or 500 for that matter) care to comment on how the Lyr 2 performs?
  
 Cheers,


----------



## DavidA

Quote: 





dr metal md said:


> New to the forum here. I have a pair of Hifiman 400i's that I really like. I currently power them with a Schiit Vali (first version). I primarily listen to vinyl with my modified Technics 1200 with a Denon 101 MC cart with a Lounge phono stage. I mostly listen to metal, classic rock, and progressive metal/rock. I am very, very interested in the Lyr 2 as an upgrade, as I feel it is the next logical step to upgrade my system from the Vali. The Vali has done well, but I feel it is under-powering the 400i's. Sorry if somebody has already answered this, but it would be difficult to sift through 100+ pages. Anybody have experience with the Lyr 2 and the 400i's (or even 400 or 500 for that matter) care to comment on how the Lyr 2 performs?
> 
> Cheers,


 
 Lyr2 and HE-400i is a good pairing but it also will depend on the tubes that you use.  I like the headphone output of my UD-301 or the Project Ember better with the HD-400i but the Lyr2 pairs better with the HE-560.  I tried a Vali from a friend and it was not a good pairing with the HE-400i so the Lyr2 would be a noticeable improvement.
  

  
 Took this picture a while ago, HE-400i and HE-560 on the right


----------



## Dr Metal MD

davida said:


> Lyr2 and HE-400i is a good pairing but it also will depend on the tubes that you use.  I like the headphone output of my UD-301 or the Project Ember better with the HD-400i but the Lyr2 pairs better with the HE-560.  I tried a Vali from a friend and it was not a good pairing with the HE-400i so the Lyr2 would be a noticeable improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> Took this picture a while ago, HE-400i and HE-560 on the right


 
  
 Sweet setup. Thanks for the input. Pretty confident I am going to go with a Lyr 2. Also looking at the Gustard H10, having heard good things about it. Any idea on how the Lyr 2 and the Gustard H10 stack up head-to-head for headphones like the 400i?


----------



## DavidA

dr metal md said:


> Sweet setup. Thanks for the input. Pretty confident I am going to go with a Lyr 2. Also looking at the Gustard H10, having heard good things about it. Any idea on how the Lyr 2 and the Gustard H10 stack up head-to-head for headphones like the 400i?


 
 Tried a H10 for 2 days but decided not to get it since the Lyr2 was a better match with more of my headphones at the time and I already had a fairly large investment in some great tubes.  For a SS amp the H10 is on the warmer side compared to my Asgard2 and pairs better with the HE-560 than the HE-400i IMO.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

davida said:


> Tried a H10 for 2 days but decided not to get it since the Lyr2 was a better match with more of my headphones at the time and I already had a fairly large investment in some great tubes.  For a SS amp the H10 is on the warmer side compared to my Asgard2 and pairs better with the HE-560 than the HE-400i IMO.


 
 Thanks, David. Do you have any recommendations for affordable tubes that are better than the stock ones that come with the Lyr 2?


----------



## franzdom

dr metal md said:


> Thanks, David. Do you have any recommendations for affordable tubes that are better than the stock ones that come with the Lyr 2?


 
  
 That is a really low bar, pretty much anything is better than stock tubes.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

franzdom said:


> That is a really low bar, pretty much anything is better than stock tubes.


 
  
 I've never rolled tubes before, so I don't even have the faintest idea of where to start in terms of upgrading them. Any highly regarded but affordable tubes that work well with the Lyr 2?


----------



## franzdom

I don't know what your target is but a lot can be had for $60-100.
 I jumped straight up to 100-200 so I may not be the best resource depending on your budget and expectations.
 Please see this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/10290#post_12959762


----------



## Dr Metal MD

franzdom said:


> I don't know what your target is but a lot can be had for $60-100.
> I jumped straight up to 100-200 so I may not be the best resource depending on your budget and expectations.
> Please see this thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/10290#post_12959762


 
  
 Cheers! Thanks for the link! Don't mean to derail the thread. Thought I'd quick ask you guys.


----------



## franzdom

So how much are you thinking of investing?
  
 Take a look at some reliable retailers like http://www.upscaleaudio.com


----------



## Dr Metal MD

franzdom said:


> So how much are you thinking of investing?
> 
> Take a look at some reliable retailers like http://www.upscaleaudio.com


 
  
 Well, I need to invest in the amp first haha. I think the Lyr 2 will be a large step up over my current Vali, so I want to enjoy that for awhile before I start experimenting with more tubes. Thanks for the link. I was hoping to invest what you listed above, like $60-100 in addition to the amp.


----------



## DavidA

dr metal md said:


> Well, I need to invest in the amp first haha. I think the Lyr 2 will be a large step up over my current Vali, so I want to enjoy that for awhile before I start experimenting with more tubes. Thanks for the link. I was hoping to invest what you listed above, like $60-100 in addition to the amp.


 
 3 tubes that I would suggest as starters: RCA clear tops (relatively cheap with a clean overall sound), Vokshod Rockets (also cheap with a bit better dynamics and sound stage), and Amperex Bugle Boys (warmer and smoother sounding, moderately priced).
  
 High end tubes: Telefunken CCa, Siemens Lorenz, Amperex SQ or PQ, 74 or 75 Reflector


----------



## Dr Metal MD

davida said:


> 3 tubes that I would suggest as starters: RCA clear tops (relatively cheap with a clean overall sound), Vokshod Rockets (also cheap with a bit better dynamics and sound stage), and Amperex Bugle Boys (warmer and smoother sounding, moderately priced).
> 
> High end tubes: Telefunken CCa, Siemens Lorenz, Amperex SQ or PQ, 74 or 75 Reflector


 
  
 That's very helpful, cheers! You mean they sound great specifically with the Lyr 2 or are just good tubes in general or both? ha


----------



## vilhelm44

Hi guys, does anyone know if the Lyr 2 is a good amp for the Beyer T5P.2 and T1.2?


----------



## DavidA

dr metal md said:


> That's very helpful, cheers! You mean they sound great specifically with the Lyr 2 or are just good tubes in general or both? ha


 
 The first 3 are good tubes in general and a cheap way learning how tubes sound in the Lyr2 and will work with a variety of headphones.
  
 The high end ones are better but its up to you if they are worth the price over the cheap ones.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

davida said:


> The first 3 are good tubes in general and a cheap way learning how tubes sound in the Lyr2 and will work with a variety of headphones.
> 
> The high end ones are better but its up to you if they are worth the price over the cheap ones.


 
  
 That's very helpful, thanks. Pardon my ignorance, but how long do tubes in an amp like the Lyr 2 last, i.e. how many hours of play should I expect to get out of them? Also, how will I know when it's time to change the tube(s)?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

dr metal md said:


> That's very helpful, thanks. Pardon my ignorance, but how long do tubes in an amp like the Lyr 2 last, i.e. how many hours of play should I expect to get out of them? Also, how will I know when it's time to change the tube(s)?



Schitt says 5.000 hours. My guess would be... change tubes when the two channels sound different, and change both.


----------



## DavidA

dr metal md said:


> That's very helpful, thanks. Pardon my ignorance, but how long do tubes in an amp like the Lyr 2 last, i.e. how many hours of play should I expect to get out of them? Also, how will I know when it's time to change the tube(s)?


 
 How long a tube last depends on 1) how well it was constructed, 2) the tube family (some last longer than others), 3) condition of tube when you first start using them, and 4) the conditions that you use them.  This is what I've found reading a little about tubes on these threads so I don't know if its correct or not.
  
 One thing I tend to agree with is power cycles are not good, the heating and cooling process should be minimized since this is stressful on the tube.  Also, some say tubes preform at their best when they have reached a stable operating temperature.  I have 2 pairs of tubes that have about 5000+ hours on them over a 2-1/2 year period and they still work but lately I just rotate my tubes in various amps about once a month.  I have 28 pairs for my Lyr2, 34 driver tubes for my BH Crack and Ember and 20 power tubes for my BH Crack.
  
 Hope this helps, bottom line I would say 2500-5000 hours would be the minimum I think you should expect from most tubes.


----------



## Geekinside

Hi there,
  
 Just ordered a Lyr 2 + Bimby stack, can't wait to have them but already impatient to roll tubes


----------



## Dr Metal MD

ruthieandjohn said:


> Schitt says 5.000 hours. My guess would be... change tubes when the two channels sound different, and change both.


 
  
 That helps. Thanks!
  
  


davida said:


> How long a tube last depends on 1) how well it was constructed, 2) the tube family (some last longer than others), 3) condition of tube when you first start using them, and 4) the conditions that you use them.  This is what I've found reading a little about tubes on these threads so I don't know if its correct or not.
> 
> One thing I tend to agree with is power cycles are not good, the heating and cooling process should be minimized since this is stressful on the tube.  Also, some say tubes preform at their best when they have reached a stable operating temperature.  I have 2 pairs of tubes that have about 5000+ hours on them over a 2-1/2 year period and they still work but lately I just rotate my tubes in various amps about once a month.  I have 28 pairs for my Lyr2, 34 driver tubes for my BH Crack and Ember and 20 power tubes for my BH Crack.
> 
> Hope this helps, bottom line I would say 2500-5000 hours would be the minimum I think you should expect from most tubes.


 
  
 That helps a lot. Thanks for your in-depth explanation. So, if I know I'm going to be listening through the amp for the afternoon, it's best not to shut it on and off?
  
  


geekinside said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Just ordered a Lyr 2 + Bimby stack, can't wait to have them but already impatient to roll tubes


 
  
 Enjoy! Did you buy it new? I keep hoping a cheaper used one will pop up, but they seem to be getting harder and harder to come by. If you don't want yours, let me know! jk


----------



## Geekinside

dr metal md said:


> Enjoy! Did you buy it new? I keep hoping a cheaper used one will pop up, but they seem to be getting harder and harder to come by. If you don't want yours, let me know! jk


 
  
 Yes, new from Schiit EU (I am swiss). I hope I'll be satisfied and I would'nt have to resell it to you


----------



## DavidA

@Dr Metal MD, when I was still working full time I used to come home on Friday and turn on the amps and leave them on until I when to sleep on Sunday.  These days they may stay on for a few days at a time but I use a USB fan to keep the Lyr2 and BH Crack cool.
  
@Geekinside, for both of you if you will be rolling a lot of tubes I would suggest socket savers:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 They also make it much easier to remove the tubes from the Lyr2.
  
 Another 2 item I would suggest:
 https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITLiquid-squeeze-tube-100-solution/dp/B0015A5AAY/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1477530346&sr=8-8&keywords=deoxit
  
 https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1477530346&sr=8-12&keywords=deoxit


----------



## Dr Metal MD

davida said:


> @Dr Metal MD, when I was still working full time I used to come home on Friday and turn on the amps and leave them on until I when to sleep on Sunday.  These days they may stay on for a few days at a time but I use a USB fan to keep the Lyr2 and BH Crack cool.
> 
> @Geekinside, for both of you if you will be rolling a lot of tubes I would suggest socket savers:
> 
> ...


 
  
 So, how would you recommend handling tubes them in terms of temperature? I am entirely new to this and I usually shut my system down when I'm not listening to anything. How long do I keep it on at a time? What do I do when the tubes get really hot? Is there any indication I'll get that tells me I need to shut it down and let the tubes cool? 
  
 I know what tube rolling means, just changing out your tubes for others, right? Others that have a different sound signature? However, if I am going to do it, do I just shut the amp off, take out the old ones, put in different ones, then let them warm up a bit before playing music?
  
 Also, I already have Deoxit spray that I used on an old amp. The stuff works incredibly well. Will the spray work the same? It's this same product: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477531058&sr=8-3&keywords=deoxit
  
 How would I use it with the tubes? Just spray it onto the 9 prongs on the tube?
  
 Pardon all the questions, just a total noob here. Thanks!


----------



## DavidA

dr metal md said:


> So, how would you recommend handling tubes them in terms of temperature? I am entirely new to this and I usually shut my system down when I'm not listening to anything. How long do I keep it on at a time? What do I do when the tubes get really hot? Is there any indication I'll get that tells me I need to shut it down and let the tubes cool?
> 
> I know what tube rolling means, just changing out your tubes for others, right? Others that have a different sound signature? However, if I am going to do it, do I just shut the amp off, take out the old ones, put in different ones, then let them warm up a bit before playing music?
> 
> ...


 
 I use a fan since I live in Hawaii where its on the warmer side.  Tubes are designed to operate at a certain temp so cooling it like I do is not something that is required, its just a habit of mine that comes from building computers where you want to keep things as cool as possible, heat is the enemy of performance and longevity of most computer parts, I don't know if this applies to tubes but I haven't seen any negative effect so far.  The fans that I use are these: https://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Dual-80mm-Cooling-Fans/dp/B002NVC1DS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477532696&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+power+fan
  
 You can keep the Lyr2 on 24/7 but the life of the tubes will be reached much faster.  Tubes reach a temperature and pretty much stay there, they don't keep getting hotter the longer they are on.  As for turning off and on, my suggestion is turn on when you get home from work and turn off when you go to sleep, on the weekend you can turn on Friday afternoon and turn off Sunday night when you go to sleep.
  
 Correct, tube rolling is changing tubes.  When changing tubes shut off the amp and let it cool for a few minutes before removing and replacing with different tubes.  One reason to get the socket savers is that they also make removal a lot easier and since the tubes are sticking out more they tend to run a touch cooler.  There are some pictures in the gallery of this thread of the socket savers and some of the recommend tubes by other posters.
  
 The Deoxit formula you have is a great cleaner, the 2 that I listed are more like preservers to use after you do the cleaning.  Be careful when cleaning since the lettering on old vintage tubes will get rubbed off quite easily so handle tubes as little as possible.  I use cotton gloves designed to handle photos so I don't get any oil from my fingers on the tubes, its like mercury vapor and halogen bulbs where you don't want to get any oil from your fingers on the glass where it will cause a hot spot.  To use the cleaner you have I would spray a q-tip first, not directly on the pins of the tubes since the cleaner will remove the lettering on some tubes, but I think it would be better to just get the preservers since the red one is also a mild cleaner.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

davida said:


> I use a fan since I live in Hawaii where its on the warmer side.  Tubes are designed to operate at a certain temp so cooling it like I do is not something that is required, its just a habit of mine that comes from building computers where you want to keep things as cool as possible, heat is the enemy of performance and longevity of most computer parts, I don't know if this applies to tubes but I haven't seen any negative effect so far.  The fans that I use are these: https://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Dual-80mm-Cooling-Fans/dp/B002NVC1DS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477532696&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+power+fan
> 
> You can keep the Lyr2 on 24/7 but the life of the tubes will be reached much faster.  Tubes reach a temperature and pretty much stay there, they don't keep getting hotter the longer they are on.  As for turning off and on, my suggestion is turn on when you get home from work and turn off when you go to sleep, on the weekend you can turn on Friday afternoon and turn off Sunday night when you go to sleep.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yet again, thank you for your in-depth response. It's very helpful! Cheers.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

So, I've also been looking at the *Mjolnir 2 *which seems like an even better Lyr 2. Is that amp THAT much better than the Lyr 2 where I would want to save up even more to pick it up? It's definitely out of my budget, but I don't want to get the Lyr 2 and in a few months wish I would have gotten the Mjolnir 2. Have any of you compared these two head to head?


----------



## Hardwired

dr metal md said:


> So, I've also been looking at the *Mjolnir 2 *which seems like an even better Lyr 2. Is that amp THAT much better than the Lyr 2 where I would want to save up even more to pick it up? It's definitely out of my budget, but I don't want to get the Lyr 2 and in a few months wish I would have gotten the Mjolnir 2. Have any of you compared these two head to head?


 
  
 I have both and listen to both on a daily basis. The Lyr 2 is at work and the MJ 2 is at home. The Lyr is paired with a Bifrost MB and the MJ is paired with a Gungnir MB. The more expensive set sounds better. How much? Well, not twice as good, certainly. The difference lies in subtle sound differences that you have to listen for, but are definitely audible once you hear them both. I prefer to listen to music instead of listening to what the gear does to the music and both sets of gear suit me wonderfully. You have to decide what you'll use your gear for to decide which one to get.
  
 I consider the MJ 2 to be a balanced version of the Lyr 2 and let it go at that. Balanced sound is subtly but solidly better to my ears, but if you choose the Lyr 2 you have a perfectly great end-game amp that will satisfy you with whatever you listen to and you won't need special XLR plugs on your cans to get the most out of it, which is another expense to consider. However, you express concern that the MJ is out of your budget, so don't EVER get into the madness of tube rolling for either amp or your budget will shoot itself. 
  
 Both amps serve me as a headphone amp and as a speaker pre-amp and both are exactly what I want. You can't go wrong either way, but you can save a few hundred dollars if your brain will let you.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

hardwired said:


> I have both and listen to both on a daily basis. The Lyr 2 is at work and the MJ 2 is at home. The Lyr is paired with a Bifrost MB and the MJ is paired with a Gungnir MB. The more expensive set sounds better. How much? Well, not twice as good, certainly. The difference lies in subtle sound differences that you have to listen for, but are definitely audible once you hear them both. I prefer to listen to music instead of listening to what the gear does to the music and both sets of gear suit me wonderfully. You have to decide what you'll use your gear for to decide which one to get.
> 
> I consider the MJ 2 to be a balanced version of the Lyr 2 and let it go at that. Balanced sound is subtly but solidly better to my ears, but if you choose the Lyr 2 you have a perfectly great end-game amp that will satisfy you with whatever you listen to and you won't need special XLR plugs on your cans to get the most out of it, which is another expense to consider. However, you express concern that the MJ is out of your budget, so don't EVER get into the madness of tube rolling for either amp or your budget will shoot itself.
> 
> Both amps serve me as a headphone amp and as a speaker pre-amp and both are exactly what I want. You can't go wrong either way, but you can save a few hundred dollars if your brain will let you.


 
 Thanks for your in-depth response. I am looking for the amp for in-home use for critical listening to essentially 100% vinyl playback. 
  
 So, you're saying the difference in sound quality isn't night-and-day? You don't immediately notice the difference/improvement with the MJ2? 
  
 I want to eventually get use balanced cables, but maybe I'll go for that after I upgrade my headphones in the distant future... I want to be able to use tubes and tube roll, hopefully without going nuts about chasing tons of tubes. Whichever amp I get will be my first introduction to tube rolling. If I get the Lyr 2,that extra $400+ will certainly help me get some more tubes to try ha. Also want to get the Tubemonger socket savers. 
  
 I appreciate your advice. Since I'm upgrading from the Vali 1, I think the Lyr 2 will be a huge improvement and will most likely satisfy what I am looking for. I don't think I yet have the gear to do the MJ2 justice yet anyway. Maybe when I get a VPI turntable, some Audeze headphones, and a better phono stage and cartridge will I consider a headphone amp like the MJ ha.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

Wonder what your guys' opinions are on this. How significant of an upgrade would the Lyr 2 or the MJ2 be over my Vali 1? Night and day immediate improvement or just a minor improvement that takes some listening to fully appreciate?


----------



## franzdom

This is more a tube thread now, I wonder how many still have Lyr 2 vs how many here have upgraded to MJ2 as I have?


----------



## reddog

franzdom said:


> This is more a tube thread now, I wonder how many still have Lyr 2 vs how many here have upgraded to MJ2 as I have?



I upgraded from the Lyr2 to the MJ2. However I collect amps and love how they can effect the sound signature. The MJ2 is a great amp and to me adds more versatility than the Lyr2.


----------



## Geekinside

My stack is on the way, hoping to have it next week . Then, it'll be time to book a listening session with an LCD 2.2 (vegan one) and certainly buy it 

Then, tube rolling but I'd like to stay with stock tubes for a while (you say empty wallet?)


----------



## Dr Metal MD

Question for you guys, and I really would appreciate some help. I am trying to choose between the Schiit Jotunheim vs Lyr 2 to better drive my Hifiman 400i's than my Vali 1. I listen to essentially 100% vinyl on my Technics 1200 with a Denon DL110 cart and a Lounge LCR phono stage.  I listen primarily to metal, progressive rock and newer progressive metal, as well as classic rock. I want a warm sound with good low end but what I really price is wider soundstage, detail, great bass, clear mids, and treble that is not harsh and something that will help tame any sibilance or anything too bright, which is in a lot of metal recordings, unfortunately.  I'm really not sure what to do! Lyr 2 with tubes rolling to experiment with different sound signatures or the Jotunheim 100% solid state with balanced cables? Any insight or help is greatly appreciated.
  
The Lyr 2 has more power for SE cables, but obviously the Jot has the option of a balanced cable to deliver even more power. 
  
Frequency response is the only other differences in the specs. 
  
Lyr 2: Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-500KHz, -3dB
Jot: Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB
  
 This may be a stupid question, but does a wider frequency response mean a wider soundstage? 
  
 Also, what does BALANCED headphones even really mean, technically speaking?


----------



## mysticstryk

dr metal md said:


> Question for you guys, and I really would appreciate some help. I am trying to choose between the Schiit Jotunheim vs Lyr 2 to better drive my Hifiman 400i's than my Vali 1. I listen to essentially 100% vinyl on my Technics 1200 with a Denon DL110 cart and a Lounge LCR phono stage. [COLOR=141414] I listen primarily to metal, progressive rock and newer progressive metal, as well as classic rock. I want a warm sound with good low end but what I really price is wider soundstage, detail, great bass, clear mids, and treble that is not harsh and something that will help tame any sibilance or anything too bright, which is in a lot of metal recordings, unfortunately.  I'm really not sure what to do! Lyr 2 with tubes rolling to experiment with different sound signatures or the Jotunheim 100% solid state with balanced cables? Any insight or help is greatly appreciated.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=141414]The Lyr 2 has more power for SE cables, but obviously the Jot has the option of a balanced cable to deliver even more power. [/COLOR]
> 
> ...




There are good write ups around the web about what balanced actually does. I'll just point out that balanced =/= better than single ended. 

I had a Jot on loaner and own a Lyr 2 now. The Jot is fantastic. I would probably recommend it over the Lyr 2 for most headphones. However I find the 400i to be a bit on the brighter side and really forward. The Jot is already a rather forward amp so the synergy likely wouldn't be very good. I have a 560 on my Lyr 2 and the pairing is great. The Lyr 2 is a little more laid back than the Jot. Also gain the ability to roll tubes or even solid state with LISST tubes.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

mysticstryk said:


> There are good write ups around the web about what balanced actually does. I'll just point out that balanced =/= better than single ended.
> 
> I had a Jot on loaner and own a Lyr 2 now. The Jot is fantastic. I would probably recommend it over the Lyr 2 for most headphones. However I find the 400i to be a bit on the brighter side and really forward. The Jot is already a rather forward amp so the synergy likely wouldn't be very good. I have a 560 on my Lyr 2 and the pairing is great. The Lyr 2 is a little more laid back than the Jot. Also gain the ability to roll tubes or even solid state with LISST tubes.


 
  
 Thank you for your input. I definitely don't want to be battling sibilance and harsh highs.


----------



## Geekinside

Just received my new Lyr2 with a Bimby. Everything works perfectly but the Lyr2 gets really hot after less than an hour of listening, especially the volume knob and the top. As my previous amp doesn't have this "problem" (maybe it's a feature haha?), I'd like to be sure that this is perfectly normal?


----------



## DavidA

Quote: 





geekinside said:


> Just received my new Lyr2 with a Bimby. Everything works perfectly but the Lyr2 gets really hot after less than an hour of listening, especially the volume knob and the top. As my previous amp doesn't have this "problem" (maybe it's a feature haha?), I'd like to be sure that this is perfectly normal?


 
 it get hot, I've been using a small usb powered fan to keep it at a warm temp versus hot temp:

 you can see the fan between the Ember and the Lyr2


----------



## Geekinside

Hi David,
  
 Thank's for your answer, I think I don't need to worry any more. As we don't have scorching temps here in Switzerland (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) I believe it won't be a problem!
  
 I'm waiting for my LCD-2 to come this afternoon. By the way, do I have to set the gain on high for these? I currently have an old AKG K302 the father temporarly lent me but I left the switch on low...


----------



## DavidA

geekinside said:


> Hi David,
> 
> Thank's for your answer, I think I don't need to worry any more. As we don't have scorching temps here in Switzerland (
> 
> ...


 
 using the high or low gain depends on the source for me, since both of my DACs output about 2v I can use either high or low for most headphones.  Only the HE-560 requires that it be on high, even in high gain the volume knob is at 2-3 position.


----------



## Madman242

davida said:


> using the high or low gain depends on the source for me, since both of my DACs output about 2v I can use either high or low for most headphones.  Only the HE-560 requires that it be on high, even in high gain the volume knob is at 2-3 position.


 
 Do you mean 2-3 O'Clock?? If that's the case.. wow. My ears would be bleeding if I did that. In fact, I get worried about damaging the headphones above 12 O'Clock when on high gain. If you mean 1-2 out of 10 on the dial, then that matches my experience as well. I normally run at 9-10 O'Clock on low gain.


----------



## DavidA

madman242 said:


> Do you mean 2-3 O'Clock?? If that's the case.. wow. My ears would be bleeding if I did that. In fact, I get worried about damaging the headphones above 12 O'Clock when on high gain. If you mean 1-2 out of 10 on the dial, then that matches my experience as well. I normally run at 9-10 O'Clock on low gain.


 
 2-3 O'clock, the HE-560 is not very efficient, but it you also need to consider the output level of your source/DAC so its hard to compare volume level based on position of knob.  My listening level is about 64-76db, not very loud.


----------



## Geekinside

Thank's for your answers. I received my LCD-2 and I'm really impressed by the result, love it! I'll wait some time before rolling tubes now... Will buy some socket savers too.


----------



## DavidA

@Geekinside, nice picture


----------



## vonh

dr metal md said:


> Schiit Jotunheim vs Lyr 2


 
  
 Well I can't tell you what will be best for you, but I can tell you I chose the Lyr 2.
  
 The Jotunheim is really impressive, especially at the price point. It is among the least "colored" amps I have ever listened to, if that is a priority for you. If you have anything balanced, or are considering going balanced in the future, it's an easy decision. The option of the on-board DAC or Phono card also gives you a couple of great options. If you plan on continuing to use your existing phono stage, you could opt for the DAC card and be ready for digital at any time. If you wanted to clean up your setup and eliminate some extra components, the phono stage is your best bet. It runs cool and is a perfect, clean solution for someone wanting to buy and be done with it.
  
 The Lyr 2 sacrifices the DAC / phono option, as well as balanced operation. In return, you get the option of running with tubes or in full solid state with LISST. It's a little bigger, it gets alarmingly hot, but it sounds amazing. Does it sound better than the Jotunheim? I can't answer that for you. Ultimately, I chose the Lyr for a few reasons. One, I don't have anything balanced and don't feel a real urge to go that way. Two, I do all of my vinyl listening on a living room two channel setup. My headphones are used purely in line with a computer. Three, the DAC card option was of no use to me as I intend to add a multibit Bifrost in the near future (as a bonus, the Lyr and Bifrost have identical chassis).
  
 Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be satisfied with the result.


----------



## coletrain104

Figured I would add my first post, since I got this amp and am loving it, preferred to my Geek Pulse Xfi, which is now running as the DAC. Got them, enjoyed it, bought some NOS National 7DJ8 tubes, heard the differences, and am having a good time with them overall. really love the width and convincing quality of the soundstage and how refined the treble is. Great product


----------



## TAsme

dr metal md said:


> Question for you guys, and I really would appreciate some help. I am trying to choose between the Schiit Jotunheim vs Lyr 2 to better drive my Hifiman 400i's than my Vali 1. I listen to essentially 100% vinyl on my Technics 1200 with a Denon DL110 cart and a Lounge LCR phono stage.  I listen primarily to metal, progressive rock and newer progressive metal, as well as classic rock. I want a warm sound with good low end but what I really price is wider soundstage, detail, great bass, clear mids, and treble that is not harsh and something that will help tame any sibilance or anything too bright, which is in a lot of metal recordings, unfortunately.  I'm really not sure what to do! Lyr 2 with tubes rolling to experiment with different sound signatures or the Jotunheim 100% solid state with balanced cables? Any insight or help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> The Lyr 2 has more power for SE cables, but obviously the Jot has the option of a balanced cable to deliver even more power.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


vonh said:


> Well I can't tell you what will be best for you, but I can tell you I chose the Lyr 2.
> 
> The Jotunheim is really impressive, especially at the price point. It is among the least "colored" amps I have ever listened to, if that is a priority for you. If you have anything balanced, or are considering going balanced in the future, it's an easy decision. The option of the on-board DAC or Phono card also gives you a couple of great options. If you plan on continuing to use your existing phono stage, you could opt for the DAC card and be ready for digital at any time. *If you wanted to clean up your setup and eliminate some extra components, the phono stage is your best bet. *It runs cool and is a perfect, clean solution for someone wanting to buy and be done with it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Denon DL110 is a Moving Coil system, so the Phono stage of the Jot won't be working. It's only for Moving Magnet systems.
  
 I'm in the same boat as you atm. I even got the Denon DL110 too and prefer the same sort of Music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After considering the options for a while i did decide to pick the Mani + Lyr 2 with both tubes. And in case i wanna connect something else than my Vinyl record Player I will just grab a DAC from Schiit afterwards


----------



## HPiper

davida said:


> it get hot, I've been using a small usb powered fan to keep it at a warm temp versus hot temp:
> 
> 
> Do you have tube savers in your Lyr? Just wondering why the tubes stick up so high.


----------



## DavidA

@HPiper, yes i have the tube savers


----------



## KeithG

davida said:


> @HPiper
> , yes i have the tube savers




Tube savers allow you more of that orangey goodness.


----------



## eee1111

new MacBook doesn't like the bifrost and lyrics 2
  
 I bought the usb c to usb b cable and it is telling me the bifrost is asking for too much power and putting up an alert
  
 could my new cable be the issue?


----------



## KeithEmo

It's possible - but only if the cable is actually bad. (Cables don't draw power unless they're shorted.)
  
 I hadn't heard about MacBooks having trouble running USB devices but it's possible (new ones are always different). Portables like the iPhones, along with requiring a special adapter, also limit their output power - and won't run portable DACs and such - but still shouldn't have trouble with an AC-powered one.
  
 I would suggest:
  
 1) Look for "power saver" settings and the like in the config.
 2) Try another cable.
 3) Try a powered hub.
 4) If you haven't already, try the DAC on another device (make sure its USB input is OK).
  
 Quote:


eee1111 said:


> new MacBook doesn't like the bifrost and lyrics 2
> 
> I bought the usb c to usb b cable and it is telling me the bifrost is asking for too much power and putting up an alert
> 
> could my new cable be the issue?


----------



## Dvdlucena

fumblingfoo said:


> I'm an audio equipment enthusiast but a relatively casual listener new to impressions, not able to discern some of the finer differences like the experts, so take what I say with at least a grain of salt. I could, however, tell differences between the v850 and Bifrost Uber DAC's. The main difference between the DAC's was that the v850 didn't produce a metallic tinge like the Bifrost. I was also able to tell the differences between the Beyer T90 and HifiMan HE-1000 headphones (and a couple of other cheaper ones that I have). So, I'm not completely tone deaf :tongue_smile: . I am comparing today:
> 
> Violectric v850 RCA (unbalanced) -> *Schiit Lyr 2* with *"*Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin! (Select Grade: Platinum Grade, Cryogenically Treated: No, Matching: Included)" from Upscale Audio
> 
> ...




Hello , happy new year!
Did you make more tests and comparisons? I have made the same comparison between lyr and v280 with sennheiser hd 800 and did notice a considerably difference in details, musicality and bass with the violectric


----------



## Dvdlucena

rb2013 said:


> I have the HD800s and the Lyr - awesome pairing!  I did recable my HDs with the Moon Black Dragon V2 (nice improvement and tamed that sibilance issue).
> 
> I had the highly regarded Woo WA6-SE when I bought the Lyr for a second system.  I sold the Woo - the Lyr - with the right tubes was better.  Way more dynamic and exciting.  I spent a year rolling every tube I could find - both Recs and Outputs - in the Woo.  I had it sounding very good - extremely smooth.  But once I heard the Lyr it was a bit shocking.  No where near as smooth as the Woo with the stock tubes - but after a few months tube rolling in the Lyr (most of my 1000 posts are on the Lyr tube rolling thread) I found the 'right' tubes.  The results were magical.  Sold the Woo.
> 
> ...


 
 Happy new year RB2013
  
 Sorry to re-open this thread! But i saw your opinion and I need some senior advice in this matter.
 I have read several times that the 300-600 ohm output in LYR is not enough to open up the sennheiser 800 real potential.
 People recommend woo 6SE and woo 22 very much, and other like the schiit valhalla.
 But your impressions in this matter are really interesting. 
 Do you think that opinion (300-600 ohm output in LYR is not enough to open up the sennheiser 800 real potential.) is a myth??
 I have a LYR and was preparing myself for a AMP upgrade with HD800
 But after read your post, i going to hold my money for a while.
  
 Hope you can help me
  
 cheers mate!
  
 david


----------



## DavidA

@Dvdlucena, after reading your post above and owning the Lyr2 and HD-800 this is my suggestion
  
 The Lyr2 with the right tubes will drive the HD-800 quite well but just remember that the "right" tubes might be quite pricy bringing the total cost up quite a bit.
  
 To me my BH Crack pairs much better than the Lyr2 but again you will need to roll some tubes to get the sound right, but it will be at a lower cost than going with the Lyr2 but since the BH Crack is a DIY project unless you can find one already built.  Its not a hard build but if you never did something like it before it will take some time.
  
 Yesterday a fellow Headfier came by with his Feliks Elise, even with the stock tubes it pairs very well with the HD-800, one of the better pairing IMO and for the price one of the best values.  I also got to use my friends Liquid Glass for a week earlier this month and paired with the HD-800 its about as good as it gets but for the price it should be.
  
 The other amp that I've tried with the HD-800 with decent results is the Project Ember, one of the most flexible amps around and much simpler to roll tubes since you only need to change 1 tube versus looking for matched pairs with the Lyr2.


----------



## gkella

Can someone please offer an opinion on the Lyr 2 in combination with
A Beyerdynamic Amiron Home Headphone.
Thanks Glen


----------



## axtran

Hopefully someone can share what their settings are for using their Lyr 2 with Fostex Tx0RP MK2 and MK3 headphones. I've been using high because the headphones are quite power hungry, but I'm now unsure whether or not I should use it or use Low Gain.


----------



## tjc303

Always try low gain first. I'd bet you'll have plenty of power and it will sound better.


----------



## axtran

tjc303 said:


> Always try low gain first. I'd bet you'll have plenty of power and it will sound better.




I usually use Low Gain since they're advertised 50 ohm, but they love High!


----------



## gkella

My Lyr 2 arrived today !!!
 I have it hooked up to my 2 channel stereo system consisting of
 solid state Usher amp/pre amp.
 I am using Beyerdynamic Amiron Home Headphones (also a recent purchase).
 Previously, I was using a Project entry level headphone amp.
 I hooked up the Lyr 2 and let it warm up for about 10 minutes.
 My first impressions were the improvement in the bass and the vocals was off the charts.
 I didn't find the treble overbearing at all.
 I am using the stock tubes and have a set of LISST tubes on their way.
 Will be interested in hearing the difference.
 I have it on high gain right now.
 First CD I played was Clapton Slowhand SACD....Lay Down Sally just sounded superb, especially the background vocals.
 I am soooooooo excited.
 Glen


----------



## inertianinja

Thought you guys might like this. I designed and printed a stand to securely hold the bifrost/lyr stack upright. Some rubber feet on the bottom and it's holding very nicely so far.


----------



## DavidA

@inertianinja, nice work there.  Any issues with cooling? or does the vertical orientation cool better?


----------



## inertianinja

davida said:


> @inertianinja, nice work there.  Any issues with cooling? or does the vertical orientation cool better?


 
  
 We'll have to see about the cooling. I haven't tested it yet. I have a hard time believing that it'll be much different just because it's sideways, but the current design does block the bottom vents. I have to try put a channel in the bottom to allow some air in there. In any case it's not like i'm running them in a total enclosure or under a blanket!
  
 Even so, I think the main cooling mechanism for these amps is the chassis as a big heat sink. If anything I think there's more room for air to touch the surfaces (certainly for the Bifrost), but I will do some testing to see.
  
 Even if the cooling is a bit compromised, I'm not *too* worried about it because I never run the amp for more than a few hours at a time.


----------



## DavidA

@inertianinja, for me in Hawaii during the summer the Lyr2 gets a little too hot for my liking so I've started to use USB fans to cool it.  Also, I tend to leave it on for long periods of time, sometimes 48hours on the weekend.


----------



## inertianinja

davida said:


> @inertianinja
> , for me in Hawaii during the summer the Lyr2 gets a little too hot for my liking so I've started to use USB fans to cool it.  Also, I tend to leave it on for long periods of time, sometimes 48hours on the weekend.




Yea that'll do it  
I'm testing it NYC in January, no fans needed!


----------



## applebook

When it's HOT, you know that it's working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but I've never had a tube amp/ preamp whose volume knob gets so hot too. Even my 1/4" jack gets very warm. I had to put a plate in between the Lyr and my DAC.


----------



## DavidA

@applebook, might want to look into a USB fan since your computer is right there


----------



## inertianinja

Hey - in response to the concerns raised by some - I did check in with Schiit about using the Lyr vertically, asking if there was any cooling problem. They said no problem!


----------



## TAsme

Hey guys!

Are you using tube savers? If yes, which onewould you recommend me?

Best,
Steve


----------



## DavidA

tasme said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Are you using tube savers? If yes, which onewould you recommend me?
> 
> ...


 
 I've been using these for a while now, no problmes and construction is really nice
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## applebook

Does anyone know if HIGH gain is automatically biased to class A/B? With my TH900, it sounds noticeably more strident and sibilant than LOW gain with the stock tubes. LOW gain is much smoother and more refined.


----------



## applebook

davida said:


> @applebook, might want to look into a USB fan since your computer is right there


 
 My PC is optimized for silence, so I'd prefer not to have an external fan beside it. I'll try socket extenders instead. They look better anyway.


----------



## tjc303

@applebook:
I'm not sure, but I have noticed the same with my LCD-2r1s.


----------



## DavidA

applebook said:


> Does anyone know if HIGH gain is automatically biased to class A/B? With my TH900, it sounds noticeably more strident and sibilant than LOW gain with the stock tubes. LOW gain is much smoother and more refined.


 
 While I try to optimize my PC for as quiet as possible I found that the location of the PC is just as important to how much noise I hear from it and since I usually need to have the AC on it really doesn't matter much since the AC system has more noise than the PC its a moot point.  Also, if you choose fans that are quiet and control the speed there is very little noise.


tjc303 said:


> @applebook:
> I'm not sure, but I have noticed the same with my LCD-2r1s.


 
 I haven't noticed any difference between low or high gain, I use it mainly to get better range on the volume pot.  Since most of the headphones that I use with the Lyr2 are higher impedance or not very efficient (HD-700, HE-560, and HD-650) I usually leave it at the high gain setting.


----------



## axtran

Is it just me, or is it near impossible to find a pair of LISSTs?


----------



## coletrain104

axtran said:


> Is it just me, or is it near impossible to find a pair of LISSTs?


 
 Not just you, I'm wondering if they're not producing any? otherwise, they may just not be meeting demand on them. I hope there's nothing wrong with them


----------



## DavidA

Schiit show them as out of stock but no date to when they will be available again so they might not be making them anymore.  FWIW I tried a pair and sold them right after that, a little to dry and thin sounding for me.


----------



## gkella

They are pretty much impossible to get.
 I bought mine off a forum member....try that route.
 I quite like them. much better than the stock tubes in my opinion.
 I don't find them thin sounding......
 They also have the advantage of not running as hot as the stock tubes.
 Glen


----------



## axtran

coletrain104 said:


> Not just you, I'm wondering if they're not producing any? otherwise, they may just not be meeting demand on them. I hope there's nothing wrong with them




Got an email back from them--they're waiting to source a part so it is really, really delayed.



davida said:


> Schiit show them as out of stock but no date to when they will be available again so they might not be making them anymore.  FWIW I tried a pair and sold them right after that, a little to dry and thin sounding for me.




I want dry and thin--I think I actually like solid state better than the hybrid setup... I'm interested in seeing what the Lyr 2 turns into.


----------



## Mosauwer

I am thinking of getting Lyr2 with stock tube and lisst tubes. and the dacing will be with mimby. Did anyone compare it with other amps? Like audeze deckard or and ss amp?


----------



## DavidA

mosauwer said:


> I am thinking of getting Lyr2 with stock tube and lisst tubes. and the dacing will be with mimby. Did anyone compare it with other amps? Like audeze deckard or and ss amp?


 
 compared to Asgard2 the Lyr2 can be either brighter or warmer
 compared to Liquid Carbon its about the same but again its dependent on the tubes
 compared to Project Ember, fairly close but the ability to change the output resistance/impedance on the Ember makes it more versatile
 compared to Liquid Glass, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS, MicroZOTL and DarkStar, not even close no matter what tubes you use
  
 Also need to consider the headphones that you have as a system and not just focus on the amp or DAC or headphone, all things in your audio chain should be considered as a whole


----------



## winders

davida said:


> compared to Asgard2 the Lyr2 can be either brighter or warmer
> compared to Liquid Carbon its about the same but again its dependent on the tubes
> compared to Project Ember, fairly close but the ability to change the output resistance/impedance on the Ember makes it more versatile
> compared to Liquid Glass, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS, MicroZOTL and DarkStar, not even close no matter what tubes you use
> ...


 

 The Lyr 2 can change its output impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)


----------



## DavidA

winders said:


> The Lyr 2 can change its output impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)


 
 That's a minimal change that doesn't really make much difference compared to the Ember: 0.1, 35 and 120


----------



## winders

davida said:


> That's a minimal change that doesn't really make much difference compared to the Ember: 0.1, 35 and 120


 

 I wouldn't call a 16.9db change minimal, but whatever.....


----------



## DavidA

winders said:


> I wouldn't call a 16.9db change minimal, but whatever.....


 
 you are talking about the input gain which is 16.9db but the change in output impedance only changes by 0.4ohm
  
 I'm talking about the output impedance which has nothing to do with input gain, apples and oranges here


----------



## winders

davida said:


> you are talking about the input gain which is 16.9db but the change in output impedance only changes by 0.4ohm
> 
> I'm talking about the output impedance which has nothing to do with input gain, apples and oranges here


 

 From the Lyr 2 specs page on the Schiit Web site:
  
 Output Impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)
  
 It doesn't say anything about an input gain. If the impedance change is on the output side, wouldn't the gain be on the output side as well?
  
 With an iPhone app, I measure a ~14db gain (headphones and speakers) when I put the Lyr 2 in high gain mode.


----------



## DavidA

winders said:


> From the Lyr 2 specs page on the Schiit Web site:
> 
> Output Impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)
> 
> ...


 
 you are not understanding what I was saying about the Ember.  There is a jumper that you can change the output resistance/impedance on it from a low of 0.1 ohm, a middle setting of 35 ohms and a high setting of 120 ohms.  On the Lyr2 the output resistance/impedance only changes from 0.3 to 0.7 going from low to high gain which is not something that has a large effect on the damping factor between the headphone and amp where in the Ember the change from 0.1 to 120 ohms has a very noticeable change in the damping factor which will have a noticeable affect on the sound with nothing to do with volume.
  
 When you flip the switch on the Lyr2 you are changing the gain (input side) and its effect is so that if you have very efficient headphones you have more play in the volume pot, not the same as changing the output impedance of an amp.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The Lyr hasn't been updated in a while. Short of improving power supplies in ways that simply wouldn't fit in the chassis, I wonder whether Lyr 3 could be the fabled "Jotuntubes" with the pivot point topology and balanced ins and outs.


----------



## Mosauwer

davida said:


> compared to Asgard2 the Lyr2 can be either brighter or warmer
> compared to Liquid Carbon its about the same but again its dependent on the tubes
> compared to Project Ember, fairly close but the ability to change the output resistance/impedance on the Ember makes it more versatile
> compared to Liquid Glass, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS, MicroZOTL and DarkStar, not even close no matter what tubes you use
> ...




You are absolutely right. Amp will be considered for my audio setup. Currently i have el8, k7xx, phillps x2, bought a zmf omni 2nd hand. i am also planning to get lcd 3/ether flow. Please suggest a desktop setup for me. I like warmth in my sound. And mimby is my choise if dac. Regardless the tube i dont hesitate to buy ss amp if its that good and fit my budget (i can get audeze deckard for 500$) 

Thanks


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Those cans are plenty warm. I'd recommend Jotunheim to make them sound as dynamic as possible. Lyr might just smother them in warmth.


----------



## Mosauwer

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Those cans are plenty warm. I'd recommend Jotunheim to make them sound as dynamic as possible. Lyr might just smother them in warmth.




Joty was a good choice, but keeping me out as i need to spend some cash on balanced cable for some cans.


----------



## DavidA

mosauwer said:


> You are absolutely right. Amp will be considered for my audio setup. Currently i have el8, k7xx, phillps x2, bought a zmf omni 2nd hand. i am also planning to get lcd 3/ether flow. Please suggest a desktop setup for me. I like warmth in my sound. And mimby is my choise if dac. Regardless the tube i dont hesitate to buy ss amp if its that good and fit my budget (i can get audeze deckard for 500$)
> 
> Thanks


 
 Got some nice headphones there and the LCD-3 is a nice one but like all LCD series they are just too heavy for me, even with the Lohb Strap.  I haven't heard a Ether Flow yet but have heard the Ether and Ether C, both didn't really get me excited, but its just a personal thing.
  
 Since you live in Asia you might want to look at the Teac HA-501, like the Ember it can adjust the output impedance to better match different headphones and is close to neutral to me.  The Lyr2 is good but the tubes can get a little pricy since they use those that are quite commonly used in many different amps so the effect of supply and demand drove up the prices a lot over the last 2-3 years.
  
 To give you a better idea this is what I used for the headphones that we have in common:
 EL8: usually use the headphone output of my UD-301 DAC or from Xonar DG soundcard connected to front panel jack, Lyr2 doesn't show any improvements
 K7XX: usually a BH Crack or Ember, its sounds better with a slightly higher output impedance amp versus the Lyr2
 Phillips X1/X2 (sold X1, returned X2): Asgard2 since its a touch on the bright side and both headphones are on the warm side
 LCD-2: Lyr2, seems like these 2 have good synergy between them
 When I tried the Ether & Ether C they both sounded best on a friends Liquid Carbon or MicroZOTL2
 The Omni that my friend has sound great out of his Hugo and pretty good with the Lyr2


----------



## Mosauwer

davida said:


> Got some nice headphones there and the LCD-3 is a nice one but like all LCD series they are just too heavy for me, even with the Lohb Strap.  I haven't heard a Ether Flow yet but have heard the Ether and Ether C, both didn't really get me excited, but its just a personal thing.
> 
> Since you live in Asia you might want to look at the Teac HA-501, like the Ember it can adjust the output impedance to better match different headphones and is close to neutral to me.  The Lyr2 is good but the tubes can get a little pricy since they use those that are quite commonly used in many different amps so the effect of supply and demand drove up the prices a lot over the last 2-3 years.
> 
> ...




I heard omni with lyr (rolled tube) it sound damn good. Since then i was craving for lyr. I saw people are saying Audeze deckard has great synergy with the companies current line up. I didnt hear deckard but i want to. As sound is a personal preference, i prefer it to hear first then buy which is not possible here. Only we can audit which our friends have. Your guide was pin point perfect. Thanks for your valuable time.


----------



## ToddRaymond

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The Lyr hasn't been updated in a while. Short of improving power supplies in ways that simply wouldn't fit in the chassis, I wonder whether Lyr 3 could be the fabled "Jotuntubes" with the pivot point topology and balanced ins and outs.


 

 I predict a Mjonlir/Gumby-sized "Jotuntubes", which would also have the option of a (larger) DAC or phono board.  The DAC would be multibit, performing somewhere in between a Bimby and a Gumby, and the phono board performing along the lines of an upcoming (tube-based?) Bifrost-sized Mani Uber.
  
 /end speculation.
  
 I'd happily take the phono version.  Hell, I'd take two (one with the DAC for the bedroom).
  
 In the meantime, my Lyr 2 with great tubes is keeping me quite content.  Was listening to some MFSL classical releases (through my Bimby) last night on my two channel system, and later my Kaede II IEMs.  It was sublime.


----------



## Charente

Upgrading to a Schiit Lyr 2 & the Next Step
  
 I am a newcomer to this forum and this is a synopsis of my experience of upgrading a modest 'starter audiophile' system, so far. There may be people in a similar situation to my own looking to do the same. I am not an expert on audio equipment..but willing to learn. In the end, I just want good sounding music.
  
 For my first step on the audio ladder, I bought an Aune X1s, combined DAC & Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp (€250 unit made in China), powered by Aune's optional linear PS and fed by a Sonore microRendu. Headphones are HD650. The microRendu was my first upgrade item and that made a credible difference. It makes a modest system sound remarkably good. 
  
 In deciding what to upgrade next, I decided the internal headphone amplifier on the X1s was probably the weakest link, rather than the DAC or the headphones. After a bit of research, it came down to one of two Schiit amplifiers...the LYR 2 or MJOLNIR 2.  I had seen lots of good reports on both as a match for my Senn HD650 and possible future upgrade of those. I also quite like Schiit's approach to things. In the end, I wasn't convinced that the MJOLNIR would give me a big enough sonic difference for the price, especially as I wasn't going to benefit from balanced operation, so I settled on the Lyr 2. But it was a close thing, thinking about the future.
  
 The Lyr 2 is nearly twice the price of the X1s DAC/Amp but I decided if I was to upgrade, it would be a reasonable leap upwards in the hope that I would hear an appreciable difference.
  
 I will use my own sound experience descriptions rather than necessarily trying to fit into the usual technical categories that I see used...as I'm not entirely sure I understand what some of them mean in relation to my own listening.
  
 This is my first experience of valves (vacuum tubes). I heard people saying the tube sound is 'warmer', which led me to think that meant less detail. I could not have been more wrong. The LYR 2 hybrid design may have helped satisfy my own expectations...I'm not sure.
 The difference between the Aune X1s internal Headphone Amplifier and Lyr 2 is significant. and the HD650 work really well with this pairing. It's when you listen to the HD650 through a decent amp that you get excellent results from them. No question. I have the volume on the Lyr usually at around 11.30 in lo-gain, so not too loud, which is typical for my listening.
  
 Initial listening:-
 There was a definite improved tonal quality of both vocals and instruments, producing a much more realistic sound all round. The whole thing is more musical and involving.
 I also detected more detail, particularly noticeable on guitar. Kris Schulz's While the City Sleeps is excellent here..his finger-slides up and down the fingerboard are so lifelike with fine nuances. With this added detail is greater and better sounding attack and decay. Cymbals have a lovely lasting 'shimmer' to them on certain recordings, especially jazz.
 Bass frequencies have more authority & weight behind them and do seem to go 'lower' than before. Drums and precision bass-guitar respectively 'thwack'  and 'grumble' more explicitly. Kick-drum has plenty of 'tight thump'. Rim shots & tom-toms are more convincing. Acoustic double-bass on jazz tracks is rich and articulate.
 Finally, the stage as a whole is wider & deeper & and more distinct, with greater ambience and lingering, detailed echoes.
  
 I started listening after only about 4 hours of 'warm-up' from box-opening (couldn't wait any longer !) and I imagine that things will get better. The whole experience is more musically enjoyable and less tiring on the ears. I find myself looking for more and more music to re-discover with this upgrade. Maybe that's the 'tube' effect. I do find that the Lyr 2 needs 2-3 tracks of playing at the start of each listening session after switch-on before producing its best.
  
 I think I was right to concentrate on the Amplifier side of the equation. The DAC of the X1S with a microRendu is rather good through the Lyr 2, to my ears, anyway. 
  
 In my opinion, the Schiit Lyr 2 is an excellent choice with my setup and reasonable value for money. I now 'totally get' this audiophile quest for good sounding music that I see everyone banging on about.
  
 Question is, as I consider a further upgrade of the DAC part of the system, which way should I go for the next 'reasonable' leap which would be a good match for the Lyr 2 ? Might that be a Bifrost, Gungnir or something else...as always keeping an eye on my not unlimited budget. Or, should I wait a while...the technology seems to improve at an incredible rate. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
  
 I'm not in a rush at the moment. I would be interested in seeing what Schiit have up their sleeve for later this year.

 Music styles I listen to:-  Acoustic, Jazz & some Rock (mostly classics)
 Music used for initial impressions: 
 Kris Schulz - While the City Sleeps
 Simple Minds - Acoustic
 Mark Knopfler - Tracker
 Dire Straits - Love over Gold
 Martin Taylor - Twos Company
 Tessa Karrys - Begin
 Chick Corea Trio - Past, Present & Futures
 Stand Getz - Various
 Fred Hersch Trio - Plays...
 Fleetwood Mac - Rumours & Tusk
  
 My system:
 NAS > NetGear router > Sonore microRendu (ifi PS) > Audiophonics USB OFC PTFE Cable > Aune X1s DAC (Linear PS) > Linn RCA Interconnects > Schiit Lyr 2 Amplifier > Sennheiser HD650 Headphones
 Controller/Player: - iPeng/Logitech Media Server v7.9.0(Beta) on iMac


----------



## DavidA

@Charente, I would suggest a few different pairs of tubes, the stock Lyr2 tubes are quite neutral or maybe a touch on the bright side and work well with the HD-650 due to it being a warmer headphone but there are a few tubes that might even make it more enjoyable.  For me I like Reflectors and Telefunken for warm headphones and Mullards, Amperex or Electro Harmonix for brighter headphons.


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## Charente

Thank-you for your suggestion @DavidA
  
 Ah, yes...I've been reading about changing tubes...some of them look frighteningly expensive. I'll take a closer look at your specific suggestions.


----------



## winders

davida said:


> For me I like Reflectors and Telefunken for warm headphones and Mullards, Amperex or Electro Harmonix for brighter headphons.


 
  
 Before you go out and buy any of the tubes brands mentioned, please do some reading through this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers
  
 There is a large range of options, sound quality, and cost within the brands mentioned. I'll add Siemens as a brand to consider as well. With my HD 650 cans, I prefer the sound of early 60's Siemens tubes (CCa and E188CC) and 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields. The higher end Telefunken tubes sound good too.
  
 I am sure that all looks like Greek to you. Unless you speak Greek! Do some reading in that thread and ask questions.
  
 Have fun!


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## Charente

@winders Greek ??....I struggle with English sometimes !!
  
 Your link...That's quite a topic...should keep me busy for a while reading through. Sounds fascinating.
  
 Thank-you for the pointers.


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## TAsme

Hello guys! Maybe a lil bit off topic but do you know if its possible to connect my onkyo dp-x1 to my lyr2?


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## winders

charente said:


> Question is, as I consider a further upgrade of the DAC part of the system, which way should I go for the next 'reasonable' leap which would be a good match for the Lyr 2 ? Might that be a Bifrost, Gungnir or something else...as always keeping an eye on my not unlimited budget. Or, should I wait a while...the technology seems to improve at an incredible rate. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


 
  
 So this is an interesting question. I bought a Modi Multibit DAC (Mimby), a Val 2 amp/pre-amp, Sennheiser HD 650 headphones, and some powered monitors in late January as a way to get back into music after a 30 year hiatus. I spend a lot of time at home at my computer so a nearfield setup with headphones makes a lot of sense. I immediately liked what I heard. I was completely impressed with the sound I was getting out of the Schiit stuff and I enjoyed the tube rolling. But, I felt like the Vali 2 was a little weak for HD 650's so I decided to take advantage of Schiit's return policy and traded up to the Lyr 2. The down side is that I needed to buy tubes in pairs. The upside was greatly improved sound from both the HD 650's and the powered monitors. I am not talking about a small difference either. It was impressive!
  
 I thought about trading in the Mimby for the Bifrost Multibit (Bimby). But, everything I read suggested the difference the two was quite small. In fact, some people said they preferred the sound they got from the Mimby. Bimby had the form factor to match the Lyr 2 but I held off because the price difference was large. So far, I am very happy with Mimby.
  
 Now, I can guarantee you before too long I will get the itch to upgrade to the Mjolnir 2. The balanced architecture intrigues me as I have read that the HD 650 get even better when run balanced. I can use the same tubes I am using now with the Lyr 2. I will upgrade to a new DAC at that time. Gungnir Multibit (Gumby) is a real possibility but I suspect I will just go all out and get the Yggdrasil (Yggy). Heck, I might even keep the stuff I have now and setup another room with a real nice 2 speaker setup with a nice recliner and the new stuff.
  
 Anyway, The next big step up from Mimby is Gumby, not Bimby. You probably get 85% of Yggy in Gumby. I would not hesitate to recommend Mimby. It is a great DAC for an incredible price.


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## Charente

winders said:


> So this is an interesting question. I bought a Modi Multibit DAC (Mimby), a Val 2 amp/pre-amp, Sennheiser HD 650 headphones, and some powered monitors in late January as a way to get back into music after a 30 year hiatus. I spend a lot of time at home at my computer so a nearfield setup with headphones makes a lot of sense. I immediately liked what I heard. I was completely impressed with the sound I was getting out of the Schiit stuff and I enjoyed the tube rolling. But, I felt like the Vali 2 was a little weak for HD 650's so I decided to take advantage of Schiit's return policy and traded up to the Lyr 2. The down side is that I needed to buy tubes in pairs. The upside was greatly improved sound from both the HD 650's and the powered monitors. I am not talking about a small difference either. It was impressive!
> 
> I thought about trading in the Mimby for the Bifrost Multibit (Bimby). But, everything I read suggested the difference the two was quite small. In fact, some people said they preferred the sound they got from the Mimby. Bimby had the form factor to match the Lyr 2 but I held off because the price difference was large. So far, I am very happy with Mimby.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank-you for your further input... I've been reading up on the tube-rolling pointers you gave me yesterday... still reading and trying to get to grips with it all !!
  
 I'm not sure that a Mimby would give me a significant enough difference from what I have now, and I feared (for my wallet's sake !) that you might conclude that the Gumby would be the better 'leap'. Yggy is probably too 'rich' for me, as much as I would love one, from what I'm reading.  Although I hear it might stop my quest and be game-over !...and save some cash in the long-run !


----------



## DavidA

charente said:


> Thank-you for your further input... I've been reading up on the tube-rolling pointers you gave me yesterday... still reading and trying to get to grips with it all !!
> 
> I'm not sure that a Mimby would give me a significant enough difference from what I have now, and I feared (for my wallet's sake !) that you might conclude that the Gumby would be the better 'leap'. Yggy is probably too 'rich' for me, as much as I would love one, from what I'm reading.  Although I hear it might stop my quest and be game-over !...and save some cash in the long-run !


 
 I would suggest you try and listen to the DACs you are interested in, for me the Gumby and Yggy are not what I would upgrade to, I have a Bifrost MB and Uber, Modi2uber and a UD-301.  Some of the better DACs that I've heard and liked are Metrum Musette, MHDT Pagoda and Stockholm V2, AudioGD Master 7, Master 11 and DAC-19, and the UD-501.  Also, If I could find one, an old Red Wine Isabellina was one of the best I've heard but they have been discontinued for a few years now and are quite pricy.


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## thesebastian

I have some questions regarding energy consumption with the Lyr 2:
  
 1) If you turn off the Lyr 2, the pre-amp output stop sending audio, right? (No passive output).
 2) Also, anyone with a Kill-a-watt could tell me if this thing is always at 30W usage or consumes less depending on: headphones connected/disconnected; gain low/high, volume level, etc?
 (Headphones are used only by me at home, but the monitors are used all the time and I wouldn't like to have a 30W headphone amp on 24/7 just to feed the monitors). 
  
 Anyway. I'm looking for a better amp to pair with some AKG (K701) headphones. (with pre-amp output for my studio monitors).
*I'm choosing between the Magni 2 Uber (5W / 184€), the Vali 2 (9W / 194€) and the Lyr 2 with 6B27 tubes (30W / 505€).*
 (If I go for the Lyr 2, and it's always at 30W when pre-amping, I think I'd rather buy 1 rca splitter and use a "sys" to separate the Lyr 2 from the monitors. My monitors turn off after 30 minutes of no-signal, so I like to minimize "hand interaction" as much as possible). 
  
 Extra info: 
 - I'm currently using a Fulla 2 (also at home), and it sounds great, but I've bought this unit just to be used at hotels when travelling for work. 
 - My Dac is a Modi Multibit with Optical input.


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## DavidA

@thesebastian, even without a kill-a-watt meter (can't seem to find mine) i think the Lyr2 is using close to the 30W based on the heat generated, it gets quite hot where you don't want to touch the top of the unit, its why I use a USB powered fan to keep mine cool.
  
 No passive output when turned off


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## thesebastian

davida said:


> @thesebastian, even without a kill-a-watt meter (can't seem to find mine) i think the Lyr2 is using close to the 30W based on the heat generated, it gets quite hot where you don't want to touch the top of the unit, its why I use a USB powered fan to keep mine cool.
> 
> No passive output when turned off


 
 Thanks David.
 Yes I think you're right, imo Schiit always focus in performance rather than energy saving. (And that's not a bad thing at all, is just no of my preference). I'd like to have a Lyr 2 with an auto turn off option or something like that (like my Monitors, PC, Display, etc). 
  
 Anyway....do you really need a fan? I live in Barcelona and summer here is like hell itself. But I would not care to have the Lyr 2 boiling if it can handle it.


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## DavidA

thesebastian said:


> Thanks David.
> Yes I think you're right, imo Schiit always focus in performance rather than energy saving. (And that's not a bad thing at all, is just no of my preference). I'd like to have a Lyr 2 with an auto turn off option or something like that (like my Monitors, PC, Display, etc).
> 
> Anyway....do you really need a fan? I live in Barcelona and summer here is like hell itself. But I would not care to have the Lyr 2 boiling if it can handle it.


 
 I'm a few hundred meters from the beach here in Hawaii (about 2 blocks from the beginning of Waikiki), its hot but the humidity is the real killer and having 3 tube amps does not help. Its 2:20am and I have the AC on if that gives you an idea.


----------



## Charente

davida said:


> I would suggest you try and listen to the DACs you are interested in, for me the Gumby and Yggy are not what I would upgrade to, I have a Bifrost MB and Uber, Modi2uber and a UD-301.  Some of the better DACs that I've heard and liked are Metrum Musette, MHDT Pagoda and Stockholm V2, AudioGD Master 7, Master 11 and DAC-19, and the UD-501.  Also, If I could find one, an old Red Wine Isabellina was one of the best I've heard but they have been discontinued for a few years now and are quite pricy.


 
 You're right about listening, but not always possible if there are no outlets in Europe. Thank-you for the suggestions - some of these I've not heard about. I'll check out their distributors in France. I know Audiophonics sell Audio-GD, but no listening facilities and no Return policy, like Schiit.


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## FumblingFoo

I posted some impressions a while of the Lyr 2 compared to the v281 and wasn't able to distinguish between the two. Here's a follow-up where I was able to distinguish between the two:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/2625#post_13265376


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## winders

davida said:


> I'm a few hundred meters from the beach here in Hawaii (about 2 blocks from the beginning of Waikiki), its hot but the humidity is the real killer and having 3 tube amps does not help. Its 2:20am and I have the AC on if that gives you an idea.


 

 I have a condo in the Discovery Bay towers. Where are you located?


----------



## Charente

davida said:


> I would suggest you try and listen to the DACs you are interested in, for me the Gumby and Yggy are not what I would upgrade to, I have a Bifrost MB and Uber, Modi2uber and a UD-301.  Some of the better DACs that I've heard and liked are Metrum Musette, MHDT Pagoda and Stockholm V2, AudioGD Master 7, Master 11 and DAC-19, and the UD-501.  Also, If I could find one, an old Red Wine Isabellina was one of the best I've heard but they have been discontinued for a few years now and are quite pricy.


 
 Re-posted...
  
 I agree that listening is what I should do. It's not always possible in France for some products    Thank-you for your suggestions...I've not heard of some of these and will look them up and see if there are distributors for these. I have certainly heard good things about Audio-GD and I know Audiophonics sell Audio-GD over here, but they have no listening facilities and don't have a Returns policy like Schiit.  This is partly why I like the way they do business...you get to try out their product in your own system.


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## DavidA

winders said:


> I have a condo in the Discovery Bay towers. Where are you located?


 
 About 4 blocks away across the Ala wai canal, right next to the convention center


----------



## DavidA

charente said:


> You're right about listening, but not always possible if there are no outlets in Europe. Thank-you for the suggestions - some of these I've not heard about. I'll check out their distributors in France. I know Audiophonics sell Audio-GD, but no listening facilities and no Return policy, like Schiit.


 
 Like you I have no place to audition any gear but I'm lucky to have a few friends who are into audio (mostly speakers) but one of them has an extensive collection of headphone gear and regularly brings something over for me to try.  The last piece he brought over was his Liquid Glass amp, its an amazing amp but I decided to buy some wine instead, still questioning my mental condition on this choice.


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## winders

davida said:


> About 4 blocks away across the Ala wai canal, right next to the convention center


 

 I know where that is. My wife and I have a nice 5 mile walk that starts where the Ali Wai dumps into the harbor. I love Oahu!


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## Charente

davida said:


> Like you I have no place to audition any gear but I'm lucky to have a few friends who are into audio (mostly speakers) but one of them has an extensive collection of headphone gear and regularly brings something over for me to try.  The last piece he brought over was his Liquid Glass amp, its an amazing amp but I decided to buy some wine instead, still questioning my mental condition on this choice.


 
 Nothing like a glass of red Bergerac wine while listening to the Lyr 2... perfect 'pairing' !! Cheers.


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## DavidA

charente said:


> Nothing like a glass of red Bergerac wine while listening to the Lyr 2... perfect 'pairing' !! Cheers.


 






 , hope you are having a great weekend
  
 Had a great 2001 Ornellaia and 1994 Chateau Montelena Estate Cab this evening, not missing the Liquid Glass as much after these 2


----------



## thesebastian

I'm more tempted in going for the Lyr 2 instead of the Magni 2 Uber (to replace my current Fulla 2) despite its power consumption and heat. (But not right now, I'll do the upgrade next month). Comments like "There is a huge difference between the Magni and the Lyr" convinced me pretty much. 
  
 For now I have some AKG K701s..but who knows in the future maybe i get more headphones and tubes, and this amp seems to handle any headphones. (This is funny because I got my phones for 130€ in Amazon and now I can't stop looking for upgrades). So:
  
 1) Is really mandatory to warm it up (for more than 10 minutes or so) each time you want to use the Lyr2, or you can still enjoy "premium Lyr quality" right after the startup? (I was planning to turn it on several times per day, like 3-6 times or even more).
  
 2) I assume this amp pairs well with the Modi Multibit (because I think is similar to the Bitfrosts), but if you know or think it is not a good match I'd like to know! In my experience the Modi Multibit has a strong and fine low-end (at least with my studio monitors is the first thing I've noticed). 
  
 3) Can I just use the included "stick on feets" and be happy with them without melting my (cheap) ikea table? I don't want to add more fans, etc. I assume this thing can stand a lot of temp (like PC videocards, etc) and won't get broken. 
  
 p.s.: Currently I'm using my Fulla 2 at 12' o clock (100% DAC volume) or 3' o clock (50% DAC volume at max). So I don't need more volume than the one that Fulla 2 gives. I'm only looking for more quality.
  
 Thanks and sorry for so many questions!


----------



## ToddRaymond

1) It's certainly not "mandatory" to do anything. I would say it sounds better after a half hour or so of being on, and by somewhere between 60 and 90 minutes, it settles nicely into it sonic bliss. I'm not sure it improves much beyond that. Maybe a little. If you plan to use it several times over the course of the day, I would just leave it on; especially in the interest if preserving tube life. Perhaps that sounds backwards, but unless I'm incorrect, the repeated powering on and off of tubes (and equipment in general, for that matter), may shorten their life. I turn mine on when I wake up (if I plan to listen at some point in the morning), or as soon as I get home from work.
2) All of their multibit DACs will sound great through it.
3) It gets hot, but not that hot. Plus, heat rises. I'm sure the feet will do just fine.
4) Most people are afraid of the truth; of who they are, or of how much they're being lied to on a daily basis.... oops, that part of another discussion.
5) Happy listenin'!


----------



## Charente

thesebastian said:


> I'm more tempted in going for the Lyr 2 instead of the Magni 2 Uber (to replace my current Fulla 2) despite its power consumption and heat. (But not right now, I'll do the upgrade next month). Comments like "There is a huge difference between the Magni and the Lyr" convinced me pretty much.
> 
> For now I have some AKG K701s..but who knows in the future maybe i get more headphones and tubes, and this amp seems to handle any headphones. (This is funny because I got my phones for 130€ in Amazon and now I can't stop looking for upgrades). So:
> 
> ...


 
 I would second all that @Turdski said. I have only been an owner of a Lyr 2 for the last week or so. I upgraded to improve on the amp quality of a Dac/Amp that I had (Aune X1s, entry level) and the my personal experience is that it achieved that, much better than I had expected. My impressions are in an earlier post (about a page or two above). Regarding warm up, I switch on once a day and it seems to settle down after 2-3 tracks...I personally wouldn't switch on and off as many times as you suggest. You may do more harm otherwise, but I stand corrected if technically I'm wrong.


----------



## musickid

How does gumby multibit with lyr 2 pair. especially lyr lisst if anyone can. getting gumby but mjolnir 2 and balanced cans out of my budget. is it right to spend more on source.


----------



## winders

thesebastian said:


> I'm more tempted in going for the Lyr 2 instead of the Magni 2 Uber (to replace my current Fulla 2) despite its power consumption and heat. (But not right now, I'll do the upgrade next month). Comments like "There is a huge difference between the Magni and the Lyr" convinced me pretty much.
> 
> For now I have some AKG K701s..but who knows in the future maybe i get more headphones and tubes, and this amp seems to handle any headphones. (This is funny because I got my phones for 130€ in Amazon and now I can't stop looking for upgrades). So:
> 
> ...


 

 1. My Lyr 2 sounds fine when first turned on. But, it sounds better and better as it warms up. After an hour or so I think it is basically warmed up even though the box itself gets warmer and warmer over a 2 to 3 hour period. I turn my Lyr 2 off when I going to be away from it for an hour or so. Tubes are expensive and turning the amp on and off occasionally does not hurt the amp or the tubes.
  
 2. I use a Modi Multibit with my Lyr 2. As far as I can tell it is a great combination. I love the sound I am getting from my setup.
  
 3. I have no issues with this stack (approved by Schiit):
  


 The Lyr 2 has a lot more power than the Fulla 2. That translates into better sound at lower volume levels. The tubes really play a big part in the sound too. The tubes you pick will make a difference!


----------



## Charente

musickid said:


> How does gumby multibit with lyr 2 pair. especially lyr lisst if anyone can. getting gumby but mjolnir 2 and balanced cans out of my budget. is it right to spend more on source.


 
 Jason Stoddard's view, as I recall, was to spend more on the headphones. But the source has to be 'reasonable', of course. Due to budget constraints as well, I'm probably going to settle on a Mimby with my LYR2 and get some better phones to round off the system (currently HD650, altho they do sound fine).


----------



## winders

charente said:


> Jason Stoddard's view, as I recall, was to spend more on the headphones. But the source has to be 'reasonable', of course. Due to budget constraints as well, I'm probably going to settle on a Mimby with my LYR2 and get some better phones to round off the system (currently HD650, altho they do sound fine).


 

 Better cans? The HD 650's aren't chopped liver and they scale well as your upgrade equipment. I am planning on upgrading to the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby and have no immediate plans to upgrade cans other than to get a balanced cable for them (Mjolnir 2 works much better using the balanced output).


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> Better cans? The HD 650's aren't chopped liver and they scale well as your upgrade equipment. I am planning on upgrading to the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby and have no immediate plans to upgrade cans other than to get a balanced cable for them (Mjolnir 2 works much better using the balanced output).


 
 Indeed, the HD650 are wonderful with the LYR2. Your proposed upgrade would be ideal for me as well, but unfortunately that combination is outside my budget. So, any further upgrade from a Mimby/Lyr 2 setup for me would be the phones, I think...but happy with the Senns for now....maybe forever, once I hear the Mimby.


----------



## r2muchstuff

charente said:


> Jason Stoddard's view, as I recall, was to spend more on the headphones. But the source has to be 'reasonable', of course. Due to budget constraints as well, I'm probably going to settle on a Mimby with my LYR2 and get some better phones to round off the system (currently HD650, altho they do sound fine).


 
  
 Spend some time with the Modi MB - Lyr 2 and HD 650, any move for "better" headphones will require a step up the cost ladder and then you may only get different.  For example Beyerdynamic T1v2 & Sennheiser HD 650 make a pair worth owning. Try some different tubes, I find 396A Western Electric, 5670W GE JAN & 6N3P-E OTK Reflektor (adapter required for all of these) to work well with the HD 650 and not have a huge cost factor.
  


winders said:


> Better cans? The HD 650's aren't chopped liver and they scale well as your upgrade equipment. I am planning on upgrading to the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby and have no immediate plans to upgrade cans other than to get a balanced cable for them (Mjolnir 2 works much better using the balanced output).


 
 I run Sennheiser HD 650 balanced out of the Mjolnir 2 and it is great.  Finding the "right" tubes is/was part of the equation however.   I did not find that balanced made them "much" better.   I found the tubes made more of a sound difference than balanced.  Since I have the balanced cable I run them balanced and currently with the 396A Western Electric tubes all is wonderful.
  
 Ain't this Schiit fun 
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## winders

I think the main advantage of the balance setup is the extra power. The Mjolnir 2 is kind of weak out the SE output.


----------



## Charente

r2muchstuff said:


> Spend some time with the Modi MB - Lyr 2 and HD 650, any move for "better" headphones will require a step up the cost ladder and then you may only get different.  For example Beyerdynamic T1v2 & Sennheiser HD 650 make a pair worth owning. Try some different tubes, I find 396A Western Electric, 5670W GE JAN & 6N3P-E OTK Reflektor (adapter required for all of these) to work well with the HD 650 and not have a huge cost factor.
> 
> I run Sennheiser HD 650 balanced out of the Mjolnir 2 and it is great.  Finding the "right" tubes is/was part of the equation however.   I did not find that balanced made them "much" better.   I found the tubes made more of a sound difference than the cable.  Since I have the balanced cable I run them balanced and currently with the 396A Western Electric tubes all is wonderful.
> 
> ...


 
 Point taken...Ah yes... I've been pointed in the tube-rolling direction already and am working up my knowledge on that....your suggestions noted...thank-you. There are lots of options and It is indeed Fun !!


----------



## musickid

Would gumby multibit and lyr 2 work well. cant find many impressions of this.


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## r2muchstuff

musickid said:


> Would gumby multibit and lyr 2 work well. cant find many impressions of this.


 

 Sure it does!!! 
  
 I run Mjolnir 2, Lyr (moved Lyr 2 upstairs), Valhalla 2, Asgard 2 and a Pioneer SA-9800 from a Gungnir Multibit; they all sound glorious 
  
 Mjolnir 2 is for balanced, Lyr is for 6SN7 tubes, Valhalla 2 is for OTL, Asgard is for Class A and the SA-9800 is for vintage power.
  
 The Lyr 2 was in the mix until I found the Lyr (1) on the forums, the 2 is now paired with a Bifrost Multibit and also sounds wonderful, but the Mjolinar 2 MB is an obvious (to me) step above the Bifrost MB so it is in my main system (Lab).
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## musickid

is lyr 2 tube not otl? i have beyerdt880 600ohm. they need otl so is valhalla 2 better for them than lyr 2? does a cheaper valhalla 2 pair so well with expensive gunj mb. thanks for help


----------



## DavidA

musickid said:


> is lyr 2 tube not otl? i have beyerdt880 600ohm. they need otl so is valhalla 2 better for them than lyr 2? does a cheaper valhalla 2 pair so well with expensive gunj mb. thanks for help


 
  
 Lyr2 is a hybrid and it will work with the DT880 600ohm, is Valhalla2 a better pairing with the DT880/600ohm is a question only you can answer since we all hear differently and it will also depend on the tubes you use in both amps.
  
 you can pair the Guny MB with either the Lyr2 or Valhalla2, its just that you will not be able to take advantage of the balanced output of the Guny


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## r2muchstuff

The Beyerdynamic T1v2 is 600 ohms and it is great out of the Ly 1, Lyr 2, Valhalla 2 or Mjolnir 2 - depending on the tubes for getting the SQ right for me.
  
 Valhalla 2  - TRIODE OTL HEADPHONE AMP AND PREAMP
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 180mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 800mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 450mW RMS per channel
 Output Impedance:  14 ohms (hi gain), 3.5 ohms (lo gain)
 Gain: 7 (16.9db) or 1.5 (3.5 db), via rear switch
  
 Lyr 2  - HIGH POWER TUBE HYBRID OR SOLID STATE HEADAMP & PREAMP
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 6.0W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 660mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 330mW RMS per channel
 Output Impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)
 Gain: 7 (16.9db) or 1 (0 db), via rear switch
  
 Both have plenty of "spec" for the DT 880
  
 Lyr 2 may be considered more versatile.
 My T1v2 is generally connected to the Lyr 1 with 6SN7 tubes or the Valhalla 2 with mellow Euro tubes both fed from the Gungnir MB.
 My T90 is generally connected to the Lyr 2/Bifrost MB (upstairs system) with mellow Euro tubes.
  
 These pairings can have wonderful "synergy" so go with what feels / sounds right to you.
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## winders

What's the slightly used market like for the Lyr 2? Do they sell relatively quickly? Do they hold their value?
  
 I have decided to upgrade to the Mjolnir 2 but that unit is out of stock until the end of March. But, I need to send my Lyr 2 back to Schiit in the next week or so if I want them to take it back at all. I don't want to be without a headphone amp for a month.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## r2muchstuff

winders said:


> What's the slightly used market like for the Lyr 2? Do they sell relatively quickly? Do they hold their value?
> 
> I have decided to upgrade to the Mjolnir 2 but that unit is out of stock until the end of March. But, I need to send my Lyr 2 back to Schiit in the next week or so if I want them to take it back at all. I don't want to be without a headphone amp for a month.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I think you will really like the Mjolnir 2.
  
 Most used Schiit appears to sell well, as long as the price is reasonable, a discount is expected even on "as new" Schiit to compensate for the lack of warranty.  Items on back order and the Modi Multibit generate quick interest 
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## thesebastian

@Turdski 
 @Charente
 @winders
  
 Thanks for the answers! I guess I'll get one Lyr 2 next month, and some extra tubes in Europe eBay. (Some cheap tubes that improve stock tubes performance would be fine. I read that the stock tubes don't give too much "tube amp experience" compared to other tubes).


----------



## winders

You're welcome!
  
 FYI: I am upgrading to a Mjolnir 2 around the end of March....my Lyr 2 will be for sale then. It's only a few weeks old now.


----------



## thesebastian

winders said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> FYI: I am upgrading to a Mjolnir 2 around the end of March....my Lyr 2 will be for sale then. It's only a few weeks old now.


 
 Thanks winders, if I were in the states I'd consider it! But since I'm in Europe, it's complicated specially because of the customs, shipping price, etc. I'm planning to buy it in from an european official reseller.


----------



## winders

Anyone in the San Jose, CA area have a Lyr or Lyr 2 they will rent me for a month? Or in the USA?


----------



## Starburp701

Am I tripping or does my Lyr sound better than my brand new Lyr 2 I got today? Side by side with the same exact tubes, the orginal Lyr is so much more dynamic! Especially the cymbals on the drums.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I have both, yes the Lyr does sound more "dynamic" however, the Lyr 2 is overall more refined.  It may take some hours and the right NOS tubes for the 2 to show its subtleties.  It responds well to a variety of tubes and headphones.
  
 I no longer use them side by side.  The Lyr is in my main system providing a platform for 6SN7 tubes.  The Lyr 2 is in the upstairs system with either mellow Euro tubes or Russian tubes.
  
 I like them both for what each can do.  The Lyr with 6SN7 tubes can at times be special 
  
 JMTC & YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Starburp701

r2muchstuff said:


> I have both, yes the Lyr does sound more "dynamic" however, the Lyr 2 is overall more refined.  It may take some hours and the right NOS tubes for the 2 to show its subtleties.  It responds well to a variety of tubes and headphones.
> 
> I no longer use them side by side.  The Lyr is in my main system providing a platform for 6SN7 tubes.  The Lyr 2 is in the upstairs system with either mellow Euro tubes or Russian tubes.
> 
> ...




Meh. I feel like it sounds almost dull and the Lyr has better resolution. I',ll let it run over night with the LISST's and see if I feel any better about it in a few days. 

Thanks r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

What headphones are you using?
  
 r2


----------



## Starburp701

r2muchstuff said:


> What headphones are you using?
> 
> r2



3 month old LCD 2's


----------



## Starburp701

starburp701 said:


> 3 month old LCD 2's




I also sold my schiit stack and my modituber was my dac and have a Mimby on the way. It'll be here Saturday. That should help clear things up


----------



## r2muchstuff

starburp701 said:


> 3 month old LCD 2's


 

 After the Modi MB gets warmed up for a day or so and the Lyr 2 has a few days of run in, I would be very interested in your take on the LCD 2 paring with both the Lyr & Lyr 2.  LCD 2 is sort of on my radar.
  
 I hope you wind up enjoying the Lyr 2.
  
 r2


----------



## Eldair

Hey.I´m new with tube amps and might ask silly questions so sorry about that.
 I´m very interest in Lyr 2 but i just wonder is it good pair with HD 600 (going to get HE-560 sometime).
 Another thing is do it work with metal music? I basicly listen all kind of metal.
 Thanks.


----------



## DavidA

eldair said:


> Hey.I´m new with tube amps and might ask silly questions so sorry about that.
> I´m very interest in Lyr 2 but i just wonder is it good pair with HD 600 (going to get HE-560 sometime).
> Another thing is do it work with metal music? I basicly listen all kind of metal.
> Thanks.


 
 The Lyr2 will work with the HD600 but the stock tubes might be a little bright for them and the HE-560.  Check out the tube rolling thread to see what other recommend as warmer sound tubes for the Lyr2.  Mullard, Amperex and Electro Harmonix are my choices for warmer tubes but the Siemens CCa and Telefunken CCa are not quite as warm but are some of the best sounding and are also the priciest these days.


----------



## TK16

eldair said:


> Hey.I´m new with tube amps and might ask silly questions so sorry about that.
> I´m very interest in Lyr 2 but i just wonder is it good pair with HD 600 (going to get HE-560 sometime).
> Another thing is do it work with metal music? I basicly listen all kind of metal.
> Thanks.


 
 Depends on what sound sig you are looking for in the amp. This is a good place to start reading about the various 6DJ8 variants/brands/country of origin,
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## KeithG

starburp701 said:


> Am I tripping or does my Lyr sound better than my brand new Lyr 2 I got today? Side by side with the same exact tubes, the orginal Lyr is so much more dynamic! Especially the cymbals on the drums.





Interesting. I would love to hear the two of them back to back.


----------



## sparkofinsanity

The new Lyr2 space heater is finally in place. Stock tubes and just a few minutes of runtime so I can't say that much about it (right now; wider soundstage, softer treble and grainier low end compared to the Marantz).


----------



## Starburp701

eldair said:


> Hey.I´m new with tube amps and might ask silly questions so sorry about that.
> I´m very interest in Lyr 2 but i just wonder is it good pair with HD 600 (going to get HE-560 sometime).
> Another thing is do it work with metal music? I basicly listen all kind of metal.
> Thanks.



Hell yeah, it works with metal 
And no such thing as a stupid question. None of us were born knowing about tubes.. I don't think? Maybe Thurston... but that's about it haha


----------



## Charente

sparkofinsanity said:


> The new Lyr2 space heater is finally in place. Stock tubes and just a few minutes of runtime so I can't say that much about it (right now; wider soundstage, softer treble and grainier low end compared to the Marantz).


 
  
 I've had mine for just over two weeks... no complaints...quite the opposite in fact. It's certainly improved more since I've had it....I find it takes a while to give its best every time you switch it on. It's very revealing...so, not-so-good recordings will show up for what they are. However, I do find I am preferring the more 'analogue' sound of an SPDIF source rather than USB thru the LYR 2...with my setup...YMMV.


----------



## Starburp701

sparkofinsanity said:


> The new Lyr2 space heater is finally in place. Stock tubes and just a few minutes of runtime so I can't say that much about it (right now; wider soundstage, softer treble and grainier low end compared to the Marantz).




I've never used the stock tubes but haven't heard great things about them. There are a lot of great reasonable choices out there. You should look up Brent Jesse's 6DJ8 page. It'll give you a rundown of all the different types (6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, CCA, CV's, etc.) and their build quality, special traits, and all that good stuff. 

Here's the link: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## sparkofinsanity

charente said:


> I've had mine for just over two weeks... no complaints...quite the opposite in fact. It's certainly improved more since I've had it....I find it takes a while to give its best every time you switch it on. It's very revealing...so, not-so-good recordings will show up for what they are. However, I do find I am preferring the more 'analogue' sound of an SPDIF source rather than USB thru the LYR 2...with my setup...YMMV.


 

 I have a SPDIF to test with, though it's in use between my mac mini running Roon into the speaker setup dac. Also have a Modi so toy around with. Nice with new shiny toys


----------



## sparkofinsanity

starburp701 said:


> I've never used the stock tubes but haven't heard great things about them. There are a lot of great reasonable choices out there. You should look up Brent Jesse's 6DJ8 page. It'll give you a rundown of all the different types (6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, CCA, CV's, etc.) and their build quality, special traits, and all that good stuff.
> 
> Here's the link: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


 

 I'm bidding on a pair of matched ECC 85 TESLA NOS right now. I have no idea of where that takes me but there's only one way to learn.


----------



## TK16

Tesla tubes are pretty harsh sounding to me in the high end, ECC85?


----------



## sparkofinsanity

tk16 said:


> Tesla tubes are pretty harsh sounding to me in the high end, ECC85?


 
  
 Looked at the compatibility list here on Head-Fi ECC85 = 6AQ8
 Says it works on the original Lyr so I figured they ought to work with the Lyr 2 as well (but no one's tested yet). 
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc85.html
  
 What they sound like I have no idea.


----------



## TK16

sparkofinsanity said:


> Looked at the compatibility list here on Head-Fi ECC85 = 6AQ8
> Says it works on the original Lyr so I figured they ought to work with the Lyr 2 as well (but no one's tested yet).
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc85.html
> 
> What they sound like I have no idea.


 
 That won`t work in a Lyr 2 afaik, only the Lyr 1 is checked on that chart.


----------



## sparkofinsanity

tk16 said:


> That won`t work in a Lyr 2 afaik, only the Lyr 1 is checked on that chart.


 

 Yeah I saw that after I made my bid. But from what I've gathered searching the web I can't find a reason why they wouldn't work, if I get them at this price I'm at now I'll take a gamble (i.e cheap).


----------



## Charente

starburp701 said:


> I've never used the stock tubes but haven't heard great things about them. There are a lot of great reasonable choices out there. You should look up Brent Jesse's 6DJ8 page. It'll give you a rundown of all the different types (6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, CCA, CV's, etc.) and their build quality, special traits, and all that good stuff.
> 
> Here's the link: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


 
 Interesting site...eye-watering prices ! I wonder what good tube outlets there are here in Europe...considering a lot of them originated here and no import duty from the US


----------



## TK16

sparkofinsanity said:


> Yeah I saw that after I made my bid. But from what I've gathered searching the web I can't find a reason why they wouldn't work, if I get them at this price I'm at now I'll take a gamble (i.e cheap).


 
 The Lyr 1 is compatible with way more tubes due to AC heaters, the 2 uses DC heaters.


----------



## Starburp701

charente said:


> Interesting site...eye-watering prices ! I wonder what good tube outlets there are here in Europe...considering a lot of them originated here and no import duty from the US




There's a lot of guys on here who will post good auctions, bargain Buy It Now, and OBO's. Keep your eyes peeled and you'll find something for you


----------



## sparkofinsanity

tk16 said:


> The Lyr 1 is compatible with way more tubes due to AC heaters, the 2 uses DC heaters.


 

 Ok, so 0.435 Ampere as opposed to 0.365 Ampere for the ECC88 (voltage the same) will make it run too hot. Gotcha. I'll hunt for a pair och ECC88's instead.


----------



## Charente

sparkofinsanity said:


> Ok, so 0.435 Ampere as opposed to 0.365 Ampere for the ECC88 (voltage the same) will make it run too hot. Gotcha. I'll hunt for a pair och ECC88's instead.


 
 I notice you're running HD650's among others...same here. I read that the stock tubes are on the bright side...but actually IME they sound quite good with the 650's, as they're on the warm side. Perhaps not so with your other phones...I don't know.


----------



## sparkofinsanity

charente said:


> I notice you're running HD650's among others...same here. I read that the stock tubes are on the bright side...but actually IME they sound quite good with the 650's, as they're on the warm side. Perhaps not so with your other phones...I don't know.


 

 I've only tried the Elear thus far, the stock tubes definitely doesn't make them harsher compared to the Marantz. But the tubes have barely gotten warmed up yet so that might change. I'll test the 650's tomorrow.


----------



## Charente

sparkofinsanity said:


> ...I'll test the 650's tomorrow.


 
 I'd be interested...BTW...Stockholm..lovely city...spent some time there on a work assignment (years ago)...better in the summer...not enough daylight in the winter !


----------



## sparkofinsanity

charente said:


> I'd be interested...BTW...Stockholm..lovely city...spent some time there on a work assignment (years ago)...better in the summer...not enough daylight in the winter !


 

 Summer in Stockholm is paradise, winter is horrible. If I could speak french I'd move in a heartbeat


----------



## Starburp701

sparkofinsanity said:


> Ok, so 0.435 Ampere as opposed to 0.365 Ampere for the ECC88 (voltage the same) will make it run too hot. Gotcha. I'll hunt for a pair och ECC88's instead.




-CCa (most sought after, especially Siemens. Telefunken, Valvo, Lorenz are also great. If I'm correct, they are the equivalent to a US 6922 "JAN"(joint army navy) which means impeccable microphonics, careful detail to build, thorough inspection, and all that jazz.

-E188CC/7308 A step up from E88CC.. 
E188CC is the European version and 7308 is te US (RCA, AMPEREX, PHILLIPS, ect.) There was a pair of Siemens E188CC for $225 from a reputable dealer named Eurolaking last time I checked on Ebay. 
Telefunken E188CC 60's ULM are rare and expensive. Heard nothing but good things about them.

Russian tubes - too many to name and some are compatible with Lyr 2 and some only on the Lyr. Be careful buying these as they can be of poor quality or mislabeled and harm your amp! Would only pursue through reputable dealers. 6N23P is a good place to start for these. 

You can't go wrong with E88CC/ECC88 either which is what I did when I first started. $50-$150 bucks here and there. Wasted some money and found some I really liked. It helped me narrow down my sound signature through trial.


----------



## DavidA

Some pictures of Telefunken and Lorenz: got these a few years ago as spares since they were much cheaper at the time, at todays prices I wouldn't get them


----------



## Starburp701

Thought I would share this little gem with my Lyr fam.


----------



## tiger roach

starburp701 said:


> Thought I would share this little gem with my Lyr fam.




"Low-tier amp?" :mad:


----------



## Starburp701

tiger roach said:


> "Low-tier amp?" :mad:




Haha, right? It almost got to me but then I looked at his profile and when I saw this:
I just don-just can't even...


----------



## winders

Apparently you have to own either a Feliks Audio Elise or a Stax SRM-1 MK2 to be at his level.
  
 Buy the way, you want to avoid that eBay seller with the Reflektor tubes.


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> Apparently you have to own either a Feliks Audio Elise or a Stax SRM-1 MK2 to be at his level.
> 
> Buy the way, you want to avoid that eBay seller with the Reflektor tubes.




What's wrong with the seller?


----------



## winders

svetlana_ua is known to sell "iffy" tubes. Buyer beware!


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> svetlana_ua is known to sell "iffy" tubes. Buyer beware!




I really appreciate you looking out. I just based it off his 100% feedback rating and the fact that he sold 4 pairs already with no negative feedback. I'll have to bring them to the shop to get them tested once they come in. Hopefully he takes this sale seriously for what it's worth.


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> Apparently you have to own either a Feliks Audio Elise or a Stax SRM-1 MK2 to be at his level.



All i said - Verbatim: "Good thing I just got my Lyr 2 so I can return it and get an Elise!"

He responded saying it would be a good pairing for me because they sound good with the LCD 2's (that are on his "Don't Like" list). BUT WAIT! I get another message.
The Feliks Euforia is out now and that's even better. 
THEN messaged me again with a link to the Feliks forum and telling me how much fun it is and how great everyone is..


----------



## DavidA

starburp701 said:


> All i said - Verbatim: "Good thing I just got my Lyr 2 so I can return it and get an Elise!"
> 
> He responded saying it would be a good pairing for me because they sound good with the LCD 2's (that are on his "Don't Like" list). BUT WAIT! I get another message.
> The Feliks Euforia is out now and that's even better.
> THEN messaged me again with a link to the Feliks forum and telling me how much fun it is and how great everyone is..


 
 He is a strange one on the Elise thread, didn't even know that a T1 is a 600ohm headphone, LOL.  He also might have fried his first Elise by using non-approved tubes/combinations but FA was nice enough to repair it for him for free.  I've tried the Elise (granted only with stock tubes) and its good but the owner and I both noticed that its a bit on the warm side and doesn't pair well with planar headphones like the HE-560 or LCD-2 but there are those who like the Elise with them so it all just personal preference.
  
 FWIW the MicroZOTL2 was a better sounding amp than the Elise when we compared the 2 and the Liquid Carbon and Lyr2 were right there with them and I think much more versatile in the headphones that they can drive properly.


----------



## sparkofinsanity

charente said:


> I notice you're running HD650's among others...same here. I read that the stock tubes are on the bright side...but actually IME they sound quite good with the 650's, as they're on the warm side. Perhaps not so with your other phones...I don't know.


 
  
 I made a rookie mistake, I listened to the Elear – just a little – before switching to the HD650's. So all I could think of was the difference between the cans. 
 Anyhow, compared to my solid state amp the stock tubes (still, hardly used yet) aren't bright at all with the HD650's (and the Elear), they are laid back in the mid and high range. It's pleasant though, and the soundstage is wider than on my Marantz. As I haven't heard any other tubes yet that's about as much as I can say about it  
  
 Edit: took out a superlative that was not supposed to be in there.


----------



## Charente

sparkofinsanity said:


> ...It's pleasant though, and the soundstage is wider than on my Marantz. As I haven't heard any other tubes yet that's about as much as I can say about it


 
 Great....sounds like a good result to me...give LYR 2 some more hours running and IME it gets better. Just listening to Chick Corea's Trilogy right now....superb...if into Jazz.


----------



## sparkofinsanity

charente said:


> Great....sounds like a good result to me...give LYR 2 some more hours running and IME it gets better. Just listening to Chick Corea's Trilogy right now....superb...if into Jazz.


 

 Jazz is wonderful, I have a couple of Chick albums. A modern favourite is Manu Katché's Playground (2007), no Chick on piano but Marcin Wasilewski is wonderful.


----------



## Charente

sparkofinsanity said:


> ...A modern favourite is Manu Katché's Playground (2007), no Chick on piano but Marcin Wasilewski is wonderful.


 
 Thanks...I'll check it out...perhaps on Tidal


----------



## Starburp701

Sooo I'm quite certain there's just something not right with the Lyr 2 I got last week. I can't get over how awful the detail is in thr upper frequencies. Even with the LISST tubes that people find too bright/ dry just just sound mushy and slow compared to my original Lyr. I just messaged Schiit and idk what the math I'm gonna do if if have to send my amp in... *sigh*
This kind of Schiit only happens to me.


----------



## tiger roach

starburp701 said:


> Sooo I'm quite certain there's just something not right with the Lyr 2 I got last week. I can't get over how awful the detail is in thr upper frequencies. Even with the LISST tubes that people find too bright/ dry just just sound mushy and slow compared to my original Lyr. I just messaged Schiit and idk what the math I'm gonna do if if have to send my amp in... *sigh*
> 
> This kind of Schiit only happens to me.



 


What a pain. My Lyr 2 arrived a couple weeks before yours, and I don't have those symptoms at all. So it does sound like something is defective in your unit. 

I'm sure Schiit will take care of you though, they have a good rep for customer service.


----------



## Starburp701

tiger roach said:


> starburp701 said:
> 
> 
> > Sooo I'm quite certain there's just something not right with the Lyr 2 I got last week. I can't get over how awful the detail is in thr upper frequencies. Even with the LISST tubes that people find too bright/ dry just just sound mushy and slow compared to my original Lyr. I just messaged Schiit and idk what the math I'm gonna do if if have to send my amp in... *sigh*
> ...




Thanks. Yeah, I'm talking to Nick T right now and he's trying see if we can figure it out.


----------



## thesebastian

OK I finally ordered a Lyr 2, I don't know when will it will arrive. Probably next Friday or in more than a week.
  
 Now I'd like to know which tubes are good for AKGs K701 and if there's a cheap option in eBay that is better than the stock Lyr 2 tubes. I'll take a look at the tube rolling thread.


----------



## Charente

thesebastian said:


> OK I finally ordered a Lyr 2, I don't know when will it will arrive. Probably next Friday or in more than a week.


 
 Great !...did you order from the Dutch Schiit dealer ? They were good with my delivery...took 2 days to reach me in France from the date they shipped it..


----------



## thesebastian

charente said:


> Great !...did you order from the Dutch Schiit dealer ? They were good with my delivery...took 2 days to reach me in France from the date they shipped it..


 
 Yes!
 The Lyr 2 has an excellent price (compared to Schiit.com price + FedEx shipping + Custom Taxes).
  
 Also got a "pyst" (RCA cables) and a "Sys" (passive preamp 2 inputs, 1 output), so they can use my monitors when the Lyr is Off or when I'm not at home etc. And since it has 2 inputs, maybe I connect the sys with 2 options to the monitors ("Lyr 2's pre amp or Momby". I'm using an RCA splitter in the Momby).
  
 There are no problems connecting the Lyr 2 with the monitors 24/7 right?
 I had very bad luck with my Fulla 2, after 1 hour of usage, one of the monitors, using the pre-amp output, made an audio explosion and just the audio stopped working (this happened while I was using the headphones, so monitors were in standby). I mean this is pure bad luck and the monitor decided to fail in a bad moment. But I also don't discard the "unreal" option that the Fulla sent "amped" signal through the monitor pre-amp output. Anyway..this experience made me more paranoid with this.   
  
So far the Schiit I've bought (off topic):
 - The Modi Multibit from Schiit.com (because the Dutch dealer had no stock last year, December), had to pay a bit more (like 40€ more in total) but got it in 2 days instead of weeks because of the no stock. 
  
 - A Fulla 2 from the UK dealer. After several days without stock, one mysterious Fulla 2 unit appeared in the site (January) and I bought it, unfortunately, this was some of the units from the 1st batch with an issue that can't handle the 2 USB inputs at the same time (1 for power only, 1 for data without getting power) at the same time. (So, there is a chance they sent me a unit that someone had returned). I kept it because for 95% of the time I'll use it with my laptop. 
  
 - And now I'm going to try this Dutch dealer. I hope I get a good Lyr 2 unit (Since I've read that some people had issues with some Lyr 2 units with big background noise, not from this dealer, probably from very old posts in this topic).


----------



## Charente

thesebastian said:


> - And now I'm going to try this Dutch dealer. I hope I get a good Lyr 2 unit (Since I've read that some people had issues with some Lyr 2 units in the past, probably from old posts in this topic).


 
 I haven't experienced any problems...had the LYR 2 for 3 weeks now. I don't use monitors, so I can't comment on that route....just headphones in my set up.Personally, I don't leave the LYR 2 switched on 24/7, ...just to save tube life. I understand they would last about 200 days if left on... Although, it takes a little while to warm up to get the best out of it. Bad luck indeed with your Fulla 2 !...I guess schiit happens !


----------



## thesebastian

charente said:


> I haven't experienced any problems...had the LYR 2 for 3 weeks now. I don't use monitors, so I can't comment on that route....just headphones in my set up.Personally, I don't leave the LYR 2 switched on 24/7, ...just to save tube life. I understand they would last about 200 days if left on... Although, it takes a little while to warm up to get the best out of it. Bad luck indeed with your Fulla 2 !...I guess schiit happens !


 
 Yes. That's why I got a Lyr 2 and a Sys. I'm planning to use the Lyr 2 more with the headphones than the Monitors. 
 Monitors are amazing just with the Momby, I only need a "Sys" to "cut" the signal they receive (and go into standby mode) when I'm using the Lyr+headphones.


----------



## Charente

thesebastian said:


> ...when I'm using the Lyr+headphones.


 
 I'm not familiar with your AKG701 phones...once you've listened for a while, you may want to try some different tubes to get the sound you want. That's the beauty of the LYR 2 (and other Schiit amps)....flexibility !


----------



## Magic77

Hey Lyr2 owners,
I have a Lyr-1 which I have had for a long time now. Still working great. But, I'm considering upgrading to the Lyr-2. Is there anyone here that has upgraded from the Lyr1 to the Lyr2? Not sure if it would really be worth it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## TK16

magic77 said:


> Hey Lyr2 owners,
> I have a Lyr-1 which I have had for a long time now. Still working great. But, I'm considering upgrading to the Lyr-2. Is there anyone here that has upgraded from the Lyr1 to the Lyr2? Not sure if it would really be worth it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


 
 Give @Starburp701 a pm. He did just that recently.


----------



## Charente

magic77 said:


> Hey Lyr2 owners,
> I have a Lyr-1 which I have had for a long time now. Still working great. But, I'm considering upgrading to the Lyr-2. Is there anyone here that has upgraded from the Lyr1 to the Lyr2? Not sure if it would really be worth it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. ThanksI


 
  
 I can't comment on the difference in SQ, but in my research IIRC, there may be fewer tube rolling options available...but I don't know to what extent. Probably there are still more than enough options to play with....for me, anyway.


----------



## Starburp701

magic77 said:


> Hey Lyr2 owners,
> I have a Lyr-1 which I have had for a long time now. Still working great. But, I'm considering upgrading to the Lyr-2. Is there anyone here that has upgraded from the Lyr1 to the Lyr2? Not sure if it would really be worth it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks




I just did last week. In all honesty, I WOULDN'T if...

1. You're only running current hungry Planars or high impedence cans and don't plan on using IEM's.

2. You don't care to switch between pre-amp desktop speakers and headphones.

3. There's nothing wrong with your current Lyr.

If I could go back I would just have kept my old Lyr but I'm not regretting it. The Lyr 2 is a bit more laid back and fatigueless with my LCD-2's but I personally feel as though tube rolling has less of an impact. Maybe my favorite tubes just sound different in the Lyr 2 and i need to adjust but it's almost like they have a lighter impact on the overall sound signature. Overall, still a great amp. You can't go wrong either way.


----------



## r2muchstuff

magic77 said:


> Hey Lyr2 owners,
> I have a Lyr-1 which I have had for a long time now. Still working great. But, I'm considering upgrading to the Lyr-2. Is there anyone here that has upgraded from the Lyr1 to the Lyr2? Not sure if it would really be worth it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


 

 I have both.  I keep the Lyr to use with 6SN7 tubes.
  
 The Lyr allows tubes with up to 600mA heater draw the Lyr 2 is capped at 300mA draw.  Thus, the Lyr does have the ability to "roll" more tube types.
  
 I find the Lyr 2 to be a more refined amp.  I think @Starburp701 described the SQ differences recently and I mostly agreeded with him.
  
 So, they are different, especially with the varying tubes.  Which one is better?  Loaded question.  I like them both.  If you are just looking for a change, get the adapters and try some 6SN7 tubes.
  
 JMTC & IMHO,
 r2


----------



## vonh

magic77 said:


> Hey Lyr2 owners,
> I have a Lyr-1 which I have had for a long time now. Still working great. But, I'm considering upgrading to the Lyr-2. Is there anyone here that has upgraded from the Lyr1 to the Lyr2? Not sure if it would really be worth it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


 

 Honestly, I'm not sure why you would bother. Don't get me wrong, the Lyr 2 is a wonderful amp and I'll probably never get rid of mine. That said, if I owned a Lyr 1 already I'd be in no rush to upgrade. It's easy to let the upgrade-itis take hold when companies start releasing updated versions of their product and slapping 2's and 3's on the end of the name.
  
 Was there something about the Lyr 1 that made you consider replacing it with something else? If so, the Lyr 2 will be similar enough that you should look elsewhere. If not, then you're looking at swapping out just for the sake of swapping.


----------



## Magic77

starburp701 said:


> I just did last week. In all honesty, I WOULDN'T if...
> 
> 1. You're only running current hungry Planars or high impedence cans and don't plan on using IEM's.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the response. I don't need to use the preamp outputs. Will not be using IEM's. I mostly use low impedance headphones. The extra $449 seems like a lot if there is not a major difference. Looks like I will stay with my Lyr1. Thanks


----------



## r2muchstuff

magic77 said:


> Thanks for the response. I don't need to use the preamp outputs. Will not be using IEM's. I mostly use low impedance headphones. The extra $449 seems like a lot if there is not a major difference. Looks like I will stay with my Lyr1. Thanks


 

 For something different get more headphones and then add a Valhalla 2 
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## cbl117

Just a heads up, in case anyone is looking for a Lyr 2 with good tubes:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/839534/schiit-lyr-2-with-gold-lion-6922-tubes-original-box-and-packaging-included-like-new


----------



## thesebastian

Guys my Lyr 2 has arrived (used it for less than 30 minutes)
  
 I'm using it between 11' and 12' o clock in Hi Gain with AKG K701, but I'm using the DAC digital volume between 20-65% (don't want to start the typical conversation about Windows volume, I don't like to use 100% dac volume because I like to control the volume with the Phone or my Keyboard) just have 2 questions:

 1) The output power (voltage, mW, or whatever) of an amplifier (Lyr2 now) is decreased if the DAC (Windows) volume is decreased? (I mean, I can safely put the Lyr2 at 4' o clock HiGain & DAC digital volume at 10%-15% volume and I won't fry my headphones, right?)
  
 2) If I put the Lyr2 at 11'o HiGain I get a similar output volume than the one obtained my Fulla 2 at 100% volume, is this normal?
 Because, the specs are so different (Probably I'm confusing "W RMS" with the volume):
 Lyr2: Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channel
 Fulla2: Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel
 And I thought that the HiGain was only for very high impedance headphones. 
  
 I'm just asking this, to be sure that everything is fine. Lyr 2 is awesome so far! I hear much better the details and I feel that "high volume levels" are less tiring than the Fulla2.


----------



## DavidA

thesebastian said:


> Guys my Lyr 2 has arrived (used it for less than 30 minutes)
> 
> I'm using it between 11' and 12' o clock in Hi Gain with AKG K701, but I'm using the DAC digital volume between 20-65% (don't want to start the typical conversation about Windows volume, I don't like to use 100% dac volume because I like to control the volume with the Phone or my Keyboard) just have 2 questions:
> 
> ...


 
 1.  The Lyr2 is only amplifying the signal that it gets so however you get to your listening level is up to you
 2.  Gain is not for high or low impedance headphones, its for sensitive or less sensitive headphones (Headphone sensitivity is measured in decibels of sound pressure level per milliwatt (dB SPL/mW). Sometimes it may be shown as dB/mW, based on a 1 mW input signal).  The gain switch will change the output impedance a little (.3 to .7) but its not going to make a difference with most headphones


----------



## winders

davida said:


> The gain switch will change the output impedance a little (.3 to .7) but its not going to make a difference with most headphones


 
  
 If I am listening in low gain mode with the volume dial at the 12 o'clock, I have to dial back to 9:30 if I go to high gain mode. Works out about the same for both speakers and headphones. That's 50% on the dial. That is no small difference.


----------



## DavidA

winders said:


> If I am listening in low gain mode with the volume dial at the 12 o'clock, I have to dial back to 9:30 if I go to high gain mode. Works out about the same for both speakers and headphones. That's 50% on the dial. That is no small difference.


 
 Impedance and gain are two different things, apples and oranges there


----------



## winders

davida said:


> Impedance and gain are two different things, apples and oranges there


 

 Huh??
  
 The switch on the back of the Lyr 2 makes a difference...and you said it wouldn't. I have no idea what you are talking about here.


----------



## DavidA

winders said:


> Huh??
> 
> The switch on the back of the Lyr 2 makes a difference...and you said it wouldn't. I have no idea what you are talking about here.


 
 You need to read my post again, maybe I wasn't clear that changing the gain will only affect the output level but the sound signature will stay the same since when you go from low gain (at 0.3 ohm output impedance) to high gain (0.7 ohm output impedance) the difference in output impedance is so small that it will not affect the tone (damping factor) between the amp and headphone drivers, unlike changing the output resistance from low to high in a Ember which can be changed from 0.1 to 35 to 120 which will have a noticeable affect on the tone.
  
 If you read the question the op had it was his impression/thinking that the low or high gain was for headphones of different impedance which is why I answered that the gain is not for matching impedance but for matching the amp to headphones of different efficiencies.


----------



## winders

You weren't clear...at all.
  
 Why don't you just say the gain switch will affect volume but will not affect tone......


----------



## ToddRaymond

Oy vey. He was very clear.


----------



## winders

turdski said:


> Oy vey. He was very clear.


 

 Not as far as I am concerned.....people that use a 200 words when 10 will do are not clear.


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## thesebastian

Quote:


davida said:


> 1.  The Lyr2 is only amplifying the signal that it gets so however you get to your listening level is up to you
> 2.  Gain is not for high or low impedance headphones, its for sensitive or less sensitive headphones (Headphone sensitivity is measured in decibels of sound pressure level per milliwatt (dB SPL/mW). Sometimes it may be shown as dB/mW, based on a 1 mW input signal).  The gain switch will change the output impedance a little (.3 to .7) but its not going to make a difference with most headphones


 
  
 1. Ok Perfect, so that means that the both ways are safe (if I used HiGain and 4'o clock volume, I only need to be careful to not put the windows volume at a high level. /// 11'o Clock + Hi is a nice spot for me it gives me a lot of room to increase Windows volume). 
 2. Can I compare the sensivity of different headphones, despite the impedance level and other specs?
  
 For instance, my headphones specs are:
  
 Max. Input Power:    200 mW
 Sensitivity headphones:    105 dB SPL/V
 Rated Impedance:    62 Ohms
  
 Now, If I had another headphones, let's imagine, with the following specs:
  
 Sensitivity headphones:    105 dB SPL/V (same as my headphones)
 Rated Impedance:    600 Ohms (different than my headphones). 
  
 Question1) Since the Sensivity is the same in both cases (only the Impedance changes), it means that both headphones will have the exact same volume level if I connect them to the amplifier? 
 ( Because so far I thought that you needed both the sensivity and the impedance to know how hard are the HPs to drive, and this could be wrong and only the sensivity is the thing that matters).
  
 Question2) And What about the Max Input Power. Is not 200 mW much lower than the Lyr2 spec, specially at 12'o clock in HiGain? (No need to answer this, since it could be more complex and I'm asking too much). 
  


winders said:


> If I am listening in low gain mode with the volume dial at the 12 o'clock, I have to dial back to 9:30 if I go to high gain mode. Works out about the same for both speakers and headphones. That's 50% on the dial. That is no small difference.


 
  
 Yeah same thing here, so this is totally normal then! (But I thought that the difference between Low and Hi, was going to be like 300% in the final volume level, not 50%~), this is because I only use the Lyr 2 output impedance or headphone impedance as the only value to estimate. 
  
 Maybe with extremely hard to drive headphones this gap is reduced and hence, you don't notice too much difference. 
  

*BTW guys, don't fight!!!*


----------



## DavidA

@thesebastian, you got it right.  The gain switch is more to adjust how much play you have in the volume knob of the amp and raising or lowering the level in windows will basically do the same.
  
 As far as I know only the sensitivity is what counts, the impedance only affects the tone or damping factor between the amp and driver IIRC.
  
 The max input power rating of the headphone is to let you know that if you turn the Lyr2 up too much there is a chance that you will damage your headphones since you are over driving them.  If you had a amp that only put out 100mW at 62ohms then even at full volume the headphones can handle the power while the Lyr2 will output 4000mW at 50ohms so it has the potential to damage your headphone if you turn the level up to far.
  
 I like the idea of lowering the windows volume to give you more play in the volume control of the amp as some amps can have channel imbalance at very low levels.


----------



## thesebastian

@DavidA

 Here is where I get confused..
  
 If I put the Lyr 2 at 50% (12'o Clock) and Windows at 100% shouldn't Lyr be sending immensely more than 200 mW (my HPs max input power) to my 62 ohms HPs?
  
 Considering that at 50 ohms Lyr2 deliver 4.0W RMS per channel, so at 12'o clock it might deliver 2.0W RMS per channel. And this is still 10 times higher than the Fulla 2 maximum output, but in the experience, the results (volume level in the cans) are similar (Fulla2 at 100% vs Lyr2 at 50%), not "10 times louder" (230 mW vs 2.0W).
  
 (Just in case, I clarify that I'm not discussing Quality, where the Lyr2 is better, just the HPs volume level between comparing both amps ). 
 Lyr 2:
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channel
Output Impedance: 0.7 ohms (high gain), 0.3 ohms (low gain)
  
 Fulla 2:
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel
Output Impedance: 0.5 ohms


----------



## DavidA

@thesebastian, remember that most volume knobs don't increase volume at a linear rate so the if you have the knob at 12 (half way) it does not mean that you are using 50% of the power


----------



## thesebastian

davida said:


> @thesebastian, remember that most volume knobs don't increase volume at a linear rate so the if you have the knob at 12 (half way) it does not mean that you are using 50% of the power


 
 I see! good to know then 

 Thanks


----------



## sparkofinsanity

... and so the madness begins. Modest beginning but you gotta start somewhere


----------



## thesebastian

Just leaving a comment, regarding Lyr 2 as Pre-Amp. (I bought the Lyr 2 mainly to be used as Headphone amp, but since I use a lot my monitors, I'm also using it as tube Pre-amp).
  
 To be honest, I can't really appreciate a difference between [Mimby -> Stock Canadian Tubes] and [Mimby] and I'm using just the SYS's button to switch the inputs. (tested this using some chill-out music, a constant sound would be better) The reasons could be:
  
 - My hearing (I hope is not this LoL).
 - Stock Canadians tubes and Mimby have the same sound.
 - (Just imagination) maybe I have a mess of cables and some circular signal between all the cables? (I do notice different volume level, but Lyr at 12:30 has the same gain as Mimby alone.
 - Or maybe my monitors can't reproduce the difference? 
  
 I'm currently splitting the signal from Mimby with an RCA splitter to the Lyr 2 and the SYS input 1. Then the Lyr 2 also outputs to the SYS input 2. And SYS outputs to the monitors, photo:

  
  
  
 Anyway, I'm waiting for some tubes ([color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Hewlett-Packard ECC88) and some Russians Voskhod in the next weeks, so I can try this better![/color]


----------



## winders

Tubes make a difference with my powered monitors. I had been burning in my Yggdrasil for 300+ hours so I was using the LISST solid state "tubes". I got used to the sound and I thought it sounded good. Well, I just got some of the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields tubes from kolkoo and put them in my Lyr 2. Wow, what a difference.


----------



## thesebastian

winders said:


> Tubes make a difference with my powered monitors. I had been burning in my Yggdrasil for 300+ hours so I was using the LISST solid state "tubes". I got used to the sound and I thought it sounded good. Well, I just got some of the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields tubes from kolkoo and put them in my Lyr 2. Wow, what a difference.


 
  
 Yeah I can't wait for some tubes to try better this. I originally noticed a good difference between my monitors using the old preamp (Fulla 2 as PreAmp Not as DAC, was using it for the headphones) and now the Lyr 2.
 But when I put the SYS to be able to fast-switch, I can't hear a difference. So I need to wait for more tubes.


----------



## DavidA

@thesebastian, i use the SYS in reverse, 2 in and one out to switch between different DACs (Bimby and UD-301) and like you have some RCA splitters to go to 3 amps.  Here is an old picture but with only one of the "SYS" in place, the other was moved to my bedroom.

 The SYS is located between the Ember and and the stack of UD-301 and Bimby.


----------



## thesebastian

@DavidA
  
 Sys in reverse! I got that idea last week (wasn't sure whether it was possible, so it's good to know you can reverse the sys with 2 outputs and 1 input). For now I'll still use it as normal. (To save Tube Life and energy when I'm not at home and my gf use the PC).
  
 (Amazing hardware you have there!)
 -------------------
  
 BTW,
  
 - In Hi Gain I noticed (and it was really hard to notice) that there's a very low background noise that only happens from 10:00 to 02:00. At 3:00 or more I can't listen it in HighGain). This low background noise is not present at all in Low gain (as the Manual says). (But is weird that is also not present in Hi after 3:00). Anyway is very quiet. 
 So now I've switched default Lyr 2 output from HiGain 12:00 to LowGain 3:15 (same volume but with Low gain) assuming there is no lose in quality (Low vs Hi gain)
  
 - Lyr 2 tames much much better the exaggerated sibilance I was hearing with the Fulla 2, specially in dialogues (like games: Witcher 3 or DeusEx). AKG K701 is strong in the highs though. Probably this is one of the reasons I find the HPs easier to listen in higher volumes.


----------



## thesebastian

Guys, I only have some AKGs K701 (I got them for 120-140€ in Amazon and basically started with this 3 months ago). Now that I have a good amp (the Lyr 2) I'm interested in getting some alternative headphones. I'd like to have 2 different kind of headphones (so I don't want to replace the K701s, I'd like something different). Also, I'm not planning in having 3 kind of headphones (at least for now, I think 2 desktop headphones are too much).  
  
 Considering this. Is there something to recommend with a cost equal or lower than 300€? So far I was having in mind the HD650s. But maybe I should go for some headphones that are much harder to drive and push more this amp? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Starburp701

thesebastian said:


> Guys, I only have some AKGs K701 (I got them for 120-140€ in Amazon and basically started with this 3 months ago). Now that I have a good amp (the Lyr 2) I'm interested in getting some alternative headphones. I'd like to have 2 different kind of headphones (so I don't want to replace the K701s, I'd like something different). Also, I'm not planning in having 3 kind of headphones (at least for now, I think 2 desktop headphones are too much).
> 
> Considering this. Is there something to recommend with a cost equal or lower than 300€? So far I was having in mind the HD650s. But maybe I should go for some headphones that are much harder to drive and push more this amp?
> 
> Thanks!




Without a doubt I would go for Hifiman HE400i's. They are around $250 USD. Coming from AKG Q701's and then HE 400i's, it felt like I was missing out on so much. The AKG's were great when I hadn't experienced anything better but now they lack dynamics and sound thin and anemic. I have LCD 2's now but I would say the HE-400i are the best headphone for that price range and you have an amp that can make them sing. If you do decide to buy, I would go with Amazon for their 1 month return policy so you don't have to fret over "making the wrong choice" anxiety.


----------



## tiger roach

thesebastian said:


> Guys, I only have some AKGs K701 (I got them for 120-140€ in Amazon and basically started with this 3 months ago). Now that I have a good amp (the Lyr 2) I'm interested in getting some alternative headphones. I'd like to have 2 different kind of headphones (so I don't want to replace the K701s, I'd like something different). Also, I'm not planning in having 3 kind of headphones (at least for now, I think 2 desktop headphones are too much).
> 
> Considering this. Is there something to recommend with a cost equal or lower than 300€? So far I was having in mind the HD650s. But maybe I should go for some headphones that are much harder to drive and push more this amp?
> 
> Thanks!




I have a pair of Hifiman 400i's that would seem to meet your criteria. I like the sound a lot so far, very smooth and un-fatiguing, and I paid only about $250 US for them new. And they certainly make good use of the Lyr 2's abundant power.


----------



## DavidA

thesebastian said:


> Guys, I only have some AKGs K701 (I got them for 120-140€ in Amazon and basically started with this 3 months ago). Now that I have a good amp (the Lyr 2) I'm interested in getting some alternative headphones. I'd like to have 2 different kind of headphones (so I don't want to replace the K701s, I'd like something different). Also, I'm not planning in having 3 kind of headphones (at least for now, I think 2 desktop headphones are too much).
> 
> Considering this. Is there something to recommend with a cost equal or lower than 300€? So far I was having in mind the HD650s. But maybe I should go for some headphones that are much harder to drive and push more this amp?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 I have both the HD650 and HE400i and they both sound good on the Lyr2 but I think the HD700 might be another consideration but its a little above your budget but with the Lyr2 its a better all around headphone that the HD650 and HE400i IMO.  But you also need to consider the genre of music that you listen to since this would change the headphone that I would recommend to you since they all do some genres better than others.  One other headphone you might want to consider is the K7XX, its different from the K701, closer to the HD650 in sound signature.  If you like a lot of bass then look into a TH-X00.


----------



## thesebastian

Thank you all!

 Well, right now I'm using the AKG K701's for everything:
 - Rock (mainly from the 70's to the 90's). and a lot of Joe Satriani ( electric guitar music).  
 - Chillout
 - Classic
 - Metal
 - Pop
 - Games
  
 They are perfect for acoustic songs, classical music. And I think they are also good for chillout music and some electronic music that have HF sounds and a some bass as well (Example1 Example2 Example3) . The Bass quality is good, not strong, but defined.
  
 But, to summarize, 40% of the time I'm listening old Rock. 40% of the time I'm listening modern music (chillout, daft punk, and things like this), 10% classical.  
  
 So, I think they are very good at everything I listen, but the Rock. (I still have to test them with new tubes, like the 2 pair I'm waiting to arrive).
  
 I'll have to resign to the HE-400i since in Europe they are much more expensive (500€) than the HD650 (300€~).
  
 I'm not really a fan of the high bass. It's just that, I think the AKG K701 are more analytic HPs and maybe I was needing some other pair for Rock and old music. (I heard that you can throw anything at the HD650s without a problem and I really liked this).
  
 So maybe the idea would be, leaving the AKGs for acoustic, classical and calm music, maybe quiet electronic as well. And a new pair of headphones  for rock, pop, and more aggressive music. 
  
 Anyway, thanks all. I got some good samples to move forward: HE-400i, HD650 and HD700s. Maybe I could find some used headphones within my budget. I don't want more AKGs (for the next 2 years at least) and I don't want to mod the bass of my K701s because I think they are the perfect asset for some kind of music like classical and vocals. I don't deny I'm tempted to try it (to half-implement the AKG bass mod and see the results) since it could make the K701s more balanced.


----------



## DavidA

@thesebastian
  
 , since you are in Europe you might want to see about building a Nhoord or Ypsilon (both drivers made in Europe), its like a Grado clone but they have a much better balanced FR over a Grado.  They are not difficult to build and they seem to be easy to sell if you don't like the sound.  This is a picture of the last one I built using a Nhoord Red V2 driver:

 These are about the best for rock/classic rock, and they are easy to drive so you can use them with a DAP or phone and they will still sound quite good.  Be aware that its not the cheapest to build, the parts for the one above is $328 and for me it takes about 1.5 months to get all the parts to Hawaii.  You can also look in my profile to see more picture of others that I've built.


----------



## thesebastian

@DavidA

 Interesting! I can see myself wearing a pair of those in a future. I've researched a bit and the drivers cost like 70€ (Nhoord) and less than 120 pounds the other one. 
 In the meantime, I've just done the AKG Bass mod 10 min ago... I'll try the K701s with this mod for a week or so, and maybe I could solve my problem just with this mod, let's see!
  
  
 BTW...Yesterday I got my first part of tubes, 2 Reflektors. They are nice ! (2 voskhods and 2 Hewlett packard should arrive next week).


----------



## boostergold90

So, I just got home with a newly acquired Lyr 2 to use with my Teaks and HD650.
  
 Paired with the Mimby I just got from a fellow head-fi'er, I was pretty blown away on the Teaks. I had enjoyed my Vali 2/M2U previously, but this just felt like another level entirely.
  
 I feel like I'm missing something though, because I find my 650's just sound muffled and lacking, especially on instrumentals. 
  
 Trying to convince myself to get accustomed to this sound first before I dive into tube rolling.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Replacing the stock tubes will make make a considerable difference. From my experience anyhow..


----------



## boostergold90

turdski said:


> Replacing the stock tubes will make make a considerable difference. From my experience anyhow..


 
 I'm afraid to ask, but...
  
 Any suggestions?


----------



## TK16

What sound sig are you looking for?


----------



## DavidA

boostergold90 said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but...
> 
> Any suggestions?


 
 Tubes for the HD650 I would suggest Voskhods, Siemens, Reflektors or Telefunkens, these are quite common and are usually reasonable priced but they also will have some premium ones that are quite pricy these days.


----------



## Charente

boostergold90 said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but...
> 
> Any suggestions?


 
  
 I found that it needed some time for the LYR 2 (with stock tubes) to reach an optimum and waited before coming to any conclusions...but I'm ready now for some experimentation. As a matter of interest, has anyone tried the LISST with HD650's ?


----------



## r2muchstuff

boostergold90 said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but...
> 
> Any suggestions?


 
  
  


davida said:


> Tubes for the HD650 I would suggest Voskhods, Siemens, Reflektors or Telefunkens, these are quite common and are usually reasonable priced but they also will have some premium ones that are quite pricy these days.


 
 I am currently finding that these less expensive tubes are working great with the HD 650:
  
  6N3P-E OTK Reflektor - NOS - 1977
  
 However an adapter is required.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## DavidA

r2muchstuff said:


> I am currently finding that these less expensive tubes are working great with the HD 650:
> 
> 6N3P-E OTK Reflektor - NOS - 1977
> 
> ...


 
 good info to know, wish I had known about adapters and alternate tubes when I fist started, could have saved a few $$$$ between the tubes for my Lyr2, Ember and BH Crack.


----------



## r2muchstuff

This is also an adapter required good match for the HD 650:
  
 396A Western Electric - NOS - 1976
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## DavidA

r2muchstuff said:


> This is also an adapter required good match for the HD 650:
> 
> 396A Western Electric - NOS - 1976
> 
> ...


 
 This is good info for those just starting this crazy journey, I've got a supply of tubes to easily out last me, 46 pairs for the Lyr2 at last count, and it does not include the tubes for the Ember/BH Crack, which can share some of the same driver tubes but I still have a bunch of 6AS7, 6080, 5998, and 421's for the power tube of the BH Crack.


----------



## boostergold90

Me, earlier tonight: "Oh. Huh. I wonder if the 650's would sound better in high gain mode."
  
 Me, now: "Yep."
  
 It certainly sounds fuller and more detailed, less muffled/muted, but importantly not just louder.


----------



## tjc303 (Jun 25, 2017)

You are not alone. I had the very same thought with my LCD2s a few months ago. High gain is better with certain headphones.


----------



## Starburp701

tjc303 said:


> You are not alone. I had the very same thought with my LCD2s a few months ago. High gain is better.




I agree. LCD 2's are listenable on low gain but I feel like they are running at 100% of their potential on high.


----------



## Mosauwer

Can anyone gimme a comparison between lyr2 and jotunheim (Balanced marks as powerful as lyr2 approx) ?


----------



## DavidA

mosauwer said:


> Can anyone gimme a comparison between lyr2 and jotunheim (Balanced marks as powerful as lyr2 approx) ?


 
 Lyr2 is a little more flexible due to being able to roll tubes, Jot is a little on the bright side IMO, really bad with HD800, D700 and T1


----------



## Mosauwer

davida said:


> Lyr2 is a little more flexible due to being able to roll tubes, Jot is a little on the bright side IMO, really bad with HD800, D700 and T1


 

 The balanced cable thing is kept myself from buying Jotunheim. And the lyr2 gets hot for me it i a hassle to maintain tube, clean stuffs and its a chuck (both lyr and joty) that will take a lot of space of my desk.


----------



## keroro0071

Will the lyr 2 be a good option for t90?


----------



## DavidA

keroro0071 said:


> Will the lyr 2 be a good option for t90?


 
 I think it will depend on the tubes, the stock tubes might make the T90 a little bright to some but since everyone is different its hard to say.


----------



## r2muchstuff

keroro0071 said:


> Will the lyr 2 be a good option for t90?


 
  
  


davida said:


> I think it will depend on the tubes, the stock tubes might make the T90 a little bright to some but since everyone is different its hard to say.


 

 Yes, works great depending on the tubes.  Research less bright tubes.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## Ulises

Hi there! 
  
 I'm selling a pair of matched Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 made in Hungary. platinum grade. Completely new, unopened. Bought from upscaleaudio for $100. Ebay listing starts at $50 plus shipping 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/142337147223?


----------



## keroro0071

r2muchstuff said:


> Yes, works great depending on the tubes.  Research less bright tubes.
> 
> JMTC,
> r2


 
  
 Thanks man! Time for tube rolling!


----------



## Charente

I recently bought a LYR 2 and am enjoying the marvel that it is... I've tried the stock tubes and find that they don't work well with my HD650 headphones. The warmth/darkness of these headphones seems to be even more exaggerated. I then tried the LISST 'tubes' option which, after a few days, I found to be quite a lot better (personally). Perhaps I prefer a more neutral sound. They certainly toned down the HD650 warmth and brought out more incisive detail, particularly at the top and bottom ends, although there is less 'weight' to the sound overall. It is true that the stage is maybe not as deep nor quite as wide but I somehow prefer the more intimate presentation that the LISST provide. I mainly listen to acoustic and Jazz. I have considered further tube rolling to find the perfect combination for me but in reality I'm not sure I want to go down that road. Sourcing tubes also appears to be easier in the US than here in France. 
  
 I have been thinking about changing the headphones as a next step and have been reading about the Focal Elear... According to what I've read, they are similar to the HD650 (which I like in principle) but with less of the so-called veil that the HD650's have but with a very good weighty and detailed bass.
  
 I wonder whether anyone with a LYR 2 has tried these ? 
  
 Alternatively, I have also considered moving to a Molijnir 2 with balanced connections. I've heard the HD650 respond/scale well to this. Any comments about this route would also be appreciated.


----------



## mortcola

Well I din't know if you have an opinion of Grado - but my GS2000e is the most satisfying can I've owned, and not only have I been driving it, and a PS1000e (sometimes just as awesome, more so in some ways), with Gungnir/Lyr2, but Grado develops their phones using Schiit equipment at many points in the process.


----------



## Charente

mortcola said:


> Well I din't know if you have an opinion of Grado - but my GS2000e is the most satisfying can I've owned, and not only have I been driving it, and a PS1000e (sometimes just as awesome, more so in some ways), with Gungnir/Lyr2, but Grado develops their phones using Schiit equipment at many points in the process.


 
 Thank-you...no, I haven't previously owned or considered any Shure phones. They seem rather more expensive. If you'd asked me a year ago that I would be considering spending £800 on a pair of headphones I would have claimed insanity !! But...since I'm at that point now, it's certainly worth a look.


----------



## keroro0071

The lyr 2 creates a decent sound when pairs with t90.


----------



## Charente

keroro0071 said:


> The lyr 2 creates a decent sound when pairs with t90.


 
 Thank-you...I've since read up about these. I feel that they may not be quite the leap in SQ from HD650 that I'm looking for. They do look easier to drive on the LYR2 vs the Beyer T1.2 tho'...which were the other phones I was considering...but at 600ohm I'm thinking the LYR2 may not have enough power headroom for them (would def need a MJ2 !). It's not that I want loud... but good transient reserve. Hence my leaning towards Focal Elear...altho it doesn't seem that there are many LYR2 owners with these to give their matching impressions. On paper they sound more like the HD650 which I'm used to.. but NOT AS warm.
  
*EDIT:*  I just learnt that the Beyer AMIRON is a replacement for the T90 and, on paper, may also suit me. Does anyone have any matching impressions of the AMIRON with the LYR2 ?


----------



## keroro0071

charente said:


> Thank-you...I've since read up about these. I feel that they may not be quite the leap in SQ from HD650 that I'm looking for. They do look easier to drive on the LYR2 vs the Beyer T1.2 tho'...which were the other phones I was considering...but at 600ohm I'm thinking the LYR2 may not have enough power headroom for them (would def need a MJ2 !). It's not that I want loud... but good transient reserve. Hence my leaning towards Focal Elear...altho it doesn't seem that there are many LYR2 owners with these to give their matching impressions. On paper they sound more like the HD650 which I'm used to.. but NOT AS warm.
> 
> *EDIT:*  I just learnt that the Beyer AMIRON is a replacement for the T90 and, on paper, may also suit me. Does anyone have any matching impressions of the AMIRON with the LYR2 ?


 
  
 Just a guess tho that the lyr2 is powerful enough for T1 since the volume knob for my 250*Ω** *t90 is always in the 9 o'clock position which is already loud enough to blow my head. In the matter of matching, tubes are a huge factor on it.


----------



## DavidA

charente said:


> Thank-you...I've since read up about these. I feel that they may not be quite the leap in SQ from HD650 that I'm looking for. They do look easier to drive on the LYR2 vs the Beyer T1.2 tho'...which were the other phones I was considering...but at 600ohm I'm thinking the LYR2 may not have enough power headroom for them (would def need a MJ2 !). It's not that I want loud... but good transient reserve. Hence my leaning towards Focal Elear...altho it doesn't seem that there are many LYR2 owners with these to give their matching impressions. On paper they sound more like the HD650 which I'm used to.. but NOT AS warm.
> 
> *EDIT:*  I just learnt that the Beyer AMIRON is a replacement for the T90 and, on paper, may also suit me. Does anyone have any matching impressions of the AMIRON with the LYR2 ?


 
 The T1g1 that I have get really loud at less than half volume with the Lyr2 but its not the best sounding for me, the BH Crack or Hugo are better paired with the T1 for me.


----------



## Charente

davida said:


> The T1g1 that I have get really loud at less than half volume with the Lyr2 but its not the best sounding for me, the BH Crack or Hugo are better paired with the T1 for me.


 
 Thank-you for your thoughts @DavidA ... I also suspect they are a bit too much of a departure from the sound type I prefer


----------



## DavidA

charente said:


> Thank-you for your thoughts @DavidA ... I also suspect they are a bit too much of a departure from the sound type I prefer


 
 To move to a different sound signature from the HD650 my suggestions would be a HE560 (brighter, better sound stage, a bit more mid centric, deeper bass without the mid bass hump of the HD650) and more extended and smoother highs.  My other suggestions would be to see if you can find either a Ypsilon S2 or Nhoord Red v2 build, they are like the RS series Grado that use wood cups, much more dynamic with tighter bass and cleaner highs.  Look in my profile if you want to see pictures of the ones that I've built.


----------



## Charente

davida said:


> To move to a different sound signature from the HD650 my suggestions would be a HE560 (brighter, better sound stage, a bit more mid centric, deeper bass without the mid bass hump of the HD650) and more extended and smoother highs.  My other suggestions would be to see if you can find either a Ypsilon S2 or Nhoord Red v2 build, they are like the RS series Grado that use wood cups, much more dynamic with tighter bass and cleaner highs.  Look in my profile if you want to see pictures of the ones that I've built.


 
 Thank-you @DavidA... The HE560 sounds like it needs more investigation by me. The others I haven't heard of and I'll look them up. You have quite some inventory of  headphones...your experience impressions are appreciated in helping to narrow things down for me.


----------



## Rudiger

I agree about the he-560. Incredible sound with my lyr2. People usually prefer them than the 650.


----------



## Charente

rudiger said:


> I agree about the he-560. Incredible sound with my lyr2. People usually prefer them than the 650.


 
 Yes, I've been checking them out on various reviews & threads...seems like a good step up for me and match for the LYR2. Highly probable I will order these. However, I am now thinking about what tubes to consider (without spending a fortune !) for the HE-560 that works well on the LYR2 ? They are a 'brighter' (clearer) phone to the HD-650 and I find conflicting views on tube types. Any comments/experiences appreciated.


----------



## Rudiger

Generalex gold lion are very good (for me) with he-560.
Or JJ gold Tubes (new production).


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Yes, I've been checking them out on various reviews & threads...seems like a good step up for me and match for the LYR2. Highly probable I will order these. However, I am now thinking about what tubes to consider (without spending a fortune !) for the HE-560 that works well on the LYR2 ? They are a 'brighter' (clearer) phone to the HD-650 and I find conflicting views on tube types. Any comments/experiences appreciated.



Pop on over to the lyr tube rolling thread, lots of seasoned rollers there with much knowledge.


----------



## DavidA

charente said:


> Yes, I've been checking them out on various reviews & threads...seems like a good step up for me and match for the LYR2. Highly probable I will order these. However, I am now thinking about what tubes to consider (without spending a fortune !) for the HE-560 that works well on the LYR2 ? They are a 'brighter' (clearer) phone to the HD-650 and I find conflicting views on tube types. Any comments/experiences appreciated.


 
 Some of the other headphones that I like with the Lyr2: Nighthawks, TH-600, K7XX, LCD-2f, HD700, EL8 open, and SRH-1840.
  
 Get socket savers if you haven't already got them, makes tube rolling much easier, along with Deoxit (might have already posted this)
  
 As for tubes: one set Telefunken (clear, clean and dynamic, don't spend on CCa unless you get a good deal of under $100/tube), one set Amperex (warmer fuller sounding), Voskhod (economical but still good, substitute for Telefunken), and either Gold Lion or Electro-Harmonix (nice balance between warm and clear/clean)


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Pop on over to the lyr tube rolling thread, lots of seasoned rollers there with much knowledge.


 
 Apologies, if I am wrongly hi-jacking this thread. I have looked at it and it's certainly interesting an intersting thread, but rather a large one and sometimes confusing for a newbie in tube-rolling.


----------



## Charente

davida said:


> Some of the other headphones that I like with the Lyr2: Nighthawks, TH-600, K7XX, LCD-2f, HD700, EL8 open, and SRH-1840.
> 
> Get socket savers if you haven't already got them, makes tube rolling much easier, along with Deoxit (might have already posted this)
> 
> As for tubes: one set Telefunken (clear, clean and dynamic, don't spend on CCa unless you get a good deal of under $100/tube), one set Amperex (warmer fuller sounding), Voskhod (economical but still good, substitute for Telefunken), and either Gold Lion or Electro-Harmonix (nice balance between warm and clear/clean)


 
 Thank-you @DAvidA ... I've noticed your contributions here and there. Your suggestions for the HE-560 noted....looks like a reasonable and not too expensive starting point.


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Apologies, if I am wrongly hi-jacking this thread. I have looked at it and it's certainly interesting an intersting thread, but rather a large one and sometimes confusing for a newbie in tube-rolling.



Nah was not meant at a thread hyjacking post, think you should as some questions there is all. Were are friendly bunch.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Nah was not meant at a thread hyjacking post, think you should as some questions there is all. Were are friendly bunch.


 
 Thanks...I'll re-post on there as well.


----------



## winders

davida said:


> As for tubes: one set Telefunken (clear, clean and dynamic, don't spend on CCa unless you get a good deal of under $100/tube), one set Amperex (warmer fuller sounding), Voskhod (economical but still good, substitute for Telefunken), and either Gold Lion or Electro-Harmonix (nice balance between warm and clear/clean)


 
  
 It's hard to find Telefunken CCa or Siemens CCa tubes for under $200 per matched pair. In fact, these days I would say it is highly unlikely. As long you pay under $250 per matched pair you are doing okay. At $125 per tube, I would say the CCa's are worth it compared to most of the tubes out there. I have averaged about $112.50 per tube on my CCa purchases getting well matched tubes through reputable sellers on eBay.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Nah was not meant at a thread hyjacking post, think you should as some questions there is all. Were are friendly bunch.


 

 Damn! Does that mean I have to be nice?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Damn! Does that mean I have to be nice?


 
 Nah, no need to change your attitude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 J/K bro.


----------



## winders

Hmmm........


----------



## coletrain104

davida said:


> Some of the other headphones that I like with the Lyr2: Nighthawks, TH-600, K7XX, LCD-2f, HD700, EL8 open, and SRH-1840.
> 
> Get socket savers if you haven't already got them, makes tube rolling much easier, along with Deoxit (might have already posted this)
> 
> As for tubes: one set Telefunken (clear, clean and dynamic, don't spend on CCa unless you get a good deal of under $100/tube), one set Amperex (warmer fuller sounding), Voskhod (economical but still good, substitute for Telefunken), and either Gold Lion or Electro-Harmonix (nice balance between warm and clear/clean)


 
 just wanted to let you know that I felt the K7XX and HD700 love the Lyr2 (I have Matsuhita/National NOS tubes), and I just bought an EL-8 open from another member and am waiting for them now. This got me really excited, in all honesty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you know if the EL-8 open you heard was a 2016 revision model or earlier?


----------



## DavidA

coletrain104 said:


> just wanted to let you know that I felt the K7XX and HD700 love the Lyr2 (I have Matsuhita/National NOS tubes), and I just bought an EL-8 open from another member and am waiting for them now. This got me really excited, in all honesty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My EL8 is an old one from when they were first released in 2014, it does sound different from the newer versions but its a matter of a slightly different sound signature.  Mine don't have as much mid bass but have a bit more sub bass so depending on the track can sound bass lite at times but the mids on the newer ones are a bit recessed in comparison so I decided to keep mine for now but if they ever need to be repaired it will be with the latest drivers.  While the EL8 sounds good on the Lyr2 I actually like it better from the headphone jack of my UD-301, a better pairing to me due to the slightly smoother highs compared to the Lyr2.


----------



## coletrain104

davida said:


> My EL8 is an old one from when they were first released in 2014, it does sound different from the newer versions but its a matter of a slightly different sound signature.  Mine don't have as much mid bass but have a bit more sub bass so depending on the track can sound bass lite at times but the mids on the newer ones are a bit recessed in comparison so I decided to keep mine for now but if they ever need to be repaired it will be with the latest drivers.  While the EL8 sounds good on the Lyr2 I actually like it better from the headphone jack of my UD-301, a better pairing to me due to the slightly smoother highs compared to the Lyr2.


 
 Interesting, I have heard that the newer one that I'll receive is darker in tonality, should be interesting. I always have my Geek Pulse XFi if the Lyr2 doesn't pair fantastically. We shall see


----------



## TAsme

Hello guys!

Would it be possible to use speakers with my lyr2?

My Setup is:

Rega rp8 turntable 
Rega aria Phono preamp
Lyr2 amp

And i would love to have a Set of q-acoustics speakers at t end.


----------



## DavidA

tasme said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> Would it be possible to use speakers with my lyr2?
> 
> ...


 
 If the speakers are self powered then you can use the pre-amp outputs to connect to them.


----------



## TAsme

davida said:


> If the speakers are self powered then you can use the pre-amp outputs to connect to them.




No they are not. Means i would need a ragnarok to be able to do?


----------



## DavidA

tasme said:


> No they are not. Means i would need a ragnarok to be able to do?


 
 If you want to drive both headphones and speakers I would suggest a Teac AI-301DA, I have the older AH-01 which is quite good for headphones and speakers.  The DAC section is good and both the speaker amps and headphones amps are much better than I would have guessed for the price and they both have a remote which makes them very flexible in your setup.


----------



## TAsme

davida said:


> If you want to drive both headphones and speakers I would suggest a Teac AI-301DA, I have the older AH-01 which is quite good for headphones and speakers.  The DAC section is good and both the speaker amps and headphones amps are much better than I would have guessed for the price and they both have a remote which makes them very flexible in your setup.




Thanks for your advice! I would really just need an amp. DAC is not needed since i listen to vinyl only. Ill have a closer look outside of the schhit models i guess. Thanks and best regards


----------



## DavidA

tasme said:


> Thanks for your advice! I would really just need an amp. DAC is not needed since i listen to vinyl only. Ill have a closer look outside of the schhit models i guess. Thanks and best regards


 
 Good luck, I wish I had the space to setup my turntables


----------



## boostergold90

So I've been really enjoying my Lyr 2 with my Teaks and HD650's, but was considering getting some monitors for when I don't need the headphones. How does the Lyr 2 fare with something like the LSR305's or Alpha 50's, anyone have experience or input?


----------



## winders

boostergold90 said:


> So I've been really enjoying my Lyr 2 with my Teaks and HD650's, but was considering getting some monitors for when I don't need the headphones. How does the Lyr 2 fare with something like the LSR305's or Alpha 50's, anyone have experience or input?


 

 The Lyr 2 works great with my Swan M200MKIII powered monitors. Most of my listening is through the monitors. The Mjolnir 2 works better yet......


----------



## boostergold90

I've spent quite a bit of time trying to justify jumping on any of the Mjolnir 2 ads that pop up, but can't bring myself to pull the trigger with a new PC build lurking in the next few months.


----------



## TK16

boostergold90 said:


> I've spent quite a bit of time trying to justify jumping on any of the Mjolnir 2 ads that pop up, but can't bring myself to pull the trigger with a new PC build lurking in the next few months.


 
 Just upgraded from a Lyr 2 to the MJ2 substantial upgrade using the same tubes. Though the Lyr 2 is def no slouch.


----------



## boostergold90

tk16 said:


> Just upgraded from a Lyr 2 to the MJ2 substantial upgrade using the same tubes. Though the Lyr 2 is def no slouch.


 
 Not helping lol. I just got into this at the end of the year and jumped straight in with the Teaks, HD650's, Mimby, and Lyr 2...so I really should give the wallet a rest. I've at least got gift cards to cover the monitors.


----------



## winders

boostergold90 said:


> Not helping lol. I just got into this at the end of the year and jumped straight in with the Teaks, HD650's, Mimby, and Lyr 2...so I really should give the wallet a rest. I've at least got gift cards to cover the monitors.


 

 Wait until we start pushing the Yggdrasil on you!


----------



## esung

I know this has probably been discussed many times but any suggestions on a DAC to combo with the Lyr 2 other than the Bifrost Multibit?


----------



## DavidA

esung said:


> I know this has probably been discussed many times but any suggestions on a DAC to combo with the Lyr 2 other than the Bifrost Multibit?


 

 ​Modi MB, UD-301, Metrum Mussett, MHDT Pagoda, Modi2uber
  
 Might help if you have a sound type that you prefer and also a price range, will help others with suggestions.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

esung said:


> I know this has probably been discussed many times but any suggestions on a DAC to combo with the Lyr 2 other than the Bifrost Multibit?


 

 Easy, the whole line of Schiit's DACs. Test them yourself and when going bigger is not an improvement stop.
  
 From my point of view a Modi 2U does a great job with the Lyr 2, not need to go for the Bimby price range. Didn't test the Mimby though.


----------



## Kermeli

would modi MB + Lyr 2 pair well with hifiman he400i's when listenin to mainly and only metal genres, using spotify premium. In future im interested in buying the zmf atticus headphones.
  
 Also what tubes would you guys recommend, i keep reading the stock ones arent that good, this would be my 1st tube amp.


----------



## coletrain104

kermeli said:


> would modi MB + Lyr 2 pair well with hifiman he400i's when listenin to mainly and only metal genres, using spotify premium. In future im interested in buying the zmf atticus headphones.
> 
> Also what tubes would you guys recommend, i keep reading the stock ones arent that good, this would be my 1st tube amp.


 
 I don't know about the modi, but Lyr 2 sounds pretty darn good with he400i. As for tubes I got some NOS Matsuhita tubes from Upscale audio, they're not a world of difference but I do prefer them. They're a tad bassier, but I think this is still a great amp with the stock tubes.


----------



## Kermeli

coletrain104 said:


> I don't know about the modi, but Lyr 2 sounds pretty darn good with he400i. As for tubes I got some NOS Matsuhita tubes from Upscale audio, they're not a world of difference but I do prefer them. They're a tad bassier, but I think this is still a great amp with the stock tubes.



good to hear!

If i want the tubes to stick out more and also cool better, will this fit the lyr: 

https://tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver

Think ill order a pair of these while at it too https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6h23-6922-rocket-logo


----------



## coletrain104

Kermeli said:


> good to hear!
> 
> If i want the tubes to stick out more and also cool better, will this fit the lyr:
> 
> ...


just be careful, noticing that these note that they have driver grade tubes but not input grade. Lyr uses the tubes as an input stage rather than as drivers if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if the grade is an indication of noise and hiss (in which case it may be fine, as Lyr has pretty low noise on low gain) or if it is a question of channel matching. I'm interested to hear your thoughts if you do purchase them. I'm pretty new to tubes myself, but if the number of pins is correct I believe the socket saver should work


----------



## Kermeli

Pulled the trigger on lyr 2 and modi 2 uber  cant wait!


----------



## DavidA

Kermeli said:


> good to hear!
> 
> If i want the tubes to stick out more and also cool better, will this fit the lyr:
> 
> ...



These are the good socket savers (a little pricy but well constructed): http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

I tried some cheaper one that look like the ones in your link and the workmanship was quite bad.  I posted a picture of them but since they re-did the site I don't know where to find the pictures anymore.


----------



## Kermeli (May 5, 2017)

Just got my lyr 2 

It was kinda scary how much i had to press down and wiggle the tubes for them to fit good, is this normal? I thought they'd go down more easily.

well they're seated and glowing, all is well 

The build quality really is something, its so pleasant just to look at it cant listen to it yet coz i dont have correct usb cable for my modi, waiting for friend to deliver.


----------



## DavidA

Kermeli said:


> Just got my lyr 2
> 
> It was kinda scary how much i had to press down and wiggle the tubes for them to fit good, is this normal? I thought they'd go down more easily.
> 
> ...



Another recommendation is to get some Deoxit for cleaning the pins of the tubes which will also provide some lubrication so removal and insertion of the tubes will be a little easier.


----------



## Kermeli

thanks i will look into it


----------



## ScareDe2

There is so many Liquid Carbon on sell. Can someone please give details about how it compares with a Schitt Lyr2 with LISST tubes? Solid state versus solid state. Cause if the Liquid Carbon is a huge upgrade over the Lyr2 I might be interested. Otherwise I will perhaps just wait for a mjolnir or other higher end amp.


----------



## DavidA

ScareDe2 said:


> There is so many Liquid Carbon on sell. Can someone please give details about how it compares with a Schitt Lyr2 with LISST tubes? Solid state versus solid state. Cause if the Liquid Carbon is a huge upgrade over the Lyr2 I might be interested. Otherwise I will perhaps just wait for a mjolnir or other higher end amp.



If you are thinking of using the LISST in the Lyr2 then I think the Jot would be a better choice as a SS amp.

The Liquid Carbon is slightly warmer than the Lyr2 with stock tubes but it also depends on the headphones that you will with using, as for being a "huge upgrade" that depends on the individual, to me its a different sound signature and not an upgrade.


----------



## ScareDe2

DavidA said:


> If you are thinking of using the LISST in the Lyr2 then I think the Jot would be a better choice as a SS amp.
> 
> The Liquid Carbon is slightly warmer than the Lyr2 with stock tubes but it also depends on the headphones that you will with using, as for being a "huge upgrade" that depends on the individual, to me its a different sound signature and not an upgrade.



Warm as in less fatiguing in the upper region?
The Lyr2 is fatiguing with the stock tubes (I think it's consensual) but it has good amount of bass though. Bright can be a good thing, but in this case there seem to have a problem in the tonal balance that bothered everyone.

So the Liquid Carbon, just to be clear, is warm... how exactly? Tonaly innofensive, relaxing, good bass, softened treble?

I will try the LISST tubes next week. I am trying to improve the slam and crunch and excitement in my sound. I use LCD2.2F schitt lyr2 and Bifrost MB.


----------



## DavidA

ScareDe2 said:


> Warm as in less fatiguing in the upper region?
> The Lyr2 is fatiguing with the stock tubes (I think it's consensual) but it has good amount of bass though. Bright can be a good thing, but in this case there seem to have a problem in the tonal balance that bothered everyone.
> 
> So the Liquid Carbon, just to be clear, is warm... how exactly? Tonaly innofensive, relaxing, good bass, softened treble?
> ...



While I only heard the LISST tubes once and for a very short period it was detailed but the highs did have a bit of etched tone to me on a HD800, HE560 and T1, I didn't try my LCD-2f with them.  I usually use either a Project Ember or the headphone output of my UD301 with my LCD-2f these days, either of these amps seem to pair a little better than the Lyr2 since the bass is a bit more forward and the highs are not harsh.  FWIW the tubes that I like as good over all are Telefunken CCa's, 74 / 75 Reflektors, Siemens CCa's, and Amperex PQ

The Liquid Carbon is a warm/neutral amp to me since it pairs well with the HD800 and HE560, 2 headphones that can be bright at times, compared to the Lyr2 with Telefunken CCa's the LC has less forward highs making the HD800 and HE560 less bright, bass is fuller but doesn't seem to go was low compared to the Lyr2.  I don't consider the Liquid Carbon a upgrade, just different sound signature.  One of the amps that I liked with my LCD-2f is the Teac HA-501, a versatile amp like the Ember since you can change the output resistance/impedance to better match your headphones.

The other thing to consider is the DAC, the Bimby is good but the UD-301 has better dynamics and treble extension to me and it has balanced output to go with the Liquid Carbon or HA-501.


----------



## ScareDe2

Thank you for this answer I am gonna learn more about the TEAC HA-501 amp.


----------



## 007shark76

I just pulled the trigger on the Lyr 2. I have been eyeing it for some time. My Fiio K5 has been my headphone amp recently using my Marantz NA8005 as the source, but I wanted to try tube rolling and the Lyr 2 has had many great reviews. I also just purchased the AKG K7XX from Massdrop and am expecting them in July. I plan on using this headphone amp in my audio stack (Denon DRA-545R stereo amp, Denon DR-M24HX cassette deck, Onkyo C-7030 CD player, Marantz NA8005 network player/DAC, Audio Technica AT-LP120 turntable). Right now I am using the Marantz's DAC for audio out from my TV (optical) and from my CD player (coaxial). The DAC is feeding analog into the Denon stereo amp. I use the Denon amp to power Wharfedale Diamond 225 speakers. I am planning to feed Record Out of Denon amp to the Lyr 2. Does anyone have experience with a similar setup? Would using Record Out of the Denon be the best way to go since the preamp out is variable?


----------



## DavidA

@007shark76, if you plant to roll many different tubes then I would suggest getting socket savers:

http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

And also get some Deoxit for cleaning (red) the pins of the tubes and the Gold Deoxit for preservation.  You can also use the Deoxit on many of your electrical connections like the RCA jacks, 3.5mm and 1/4in jacks.


----------



## 007shark76

DavidA said:


> @007shark76, if you plant to roll many different tubes then I would suggest getting socket savers:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> And also get some Deoxit for cleaning (red) the pins of the tubes and the Gold Deoxit for preservation.  You can also use the Deoxit on many of your electrical connections like the RCA jacks, 3.5mm and 1/4in jacks.



Thank you for the tips. I am new with tubes, but have been lurking around the threads to see preferences on different tubes. I didn't even consider the maintenance aspect of it. I did order some Amperex Orange Globes and Russian Silver Shield tubes to start with.


----------



## DavidA

007shark76 said:


> Thank you for the tips. I am new with tubes, but have been lurking around the threads to see preferences on different tubes. I didn't even consider the maintenance aspect of it. I did order some Amperex Orange Globes and Russian Silver Shield tubes to start with.


Those are pretty good tubes to start with and I think you will enjoy them and the K7XX


----------



## CarlosUnchained

I'm considering buying BottleHead S.E.X. instead of Lyr 2 because it can power sensitive speakers.

Does anybody have any experience with both amps driving low impedance headphones?


----------



## DavidA

I've only heard the BH SEX once and it was a long time ago and I didn't have a Lyr2 to compare to at the time.  The SEX was good driving an LCD-2.2 and TH-900 (the 2 headphones I tried with it), the sound was nice and full with good bass extension and the highs were not sibilant on the TH-900 which can be a problem for some but with the LCD-2.2 there was a lack of sparkle to me, like the highs were rolled off a little too much for my taste.  My Lyr2 is good with the LCD-2f but I like it with a Project Ember or the headphone output of my UD-301 better, the sound is fuller and the bass hits just a bit better.  The Lyr2 is better with my HE560, HD700 and a new prototype Nhood driver that I just got, the FR is balanced from top to bottom and the sound stage is a bit better and the bass and treble is nicely extended.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Thanks @DavidA ,

Ember is on the list too, but I think I prefer the preouts and the looks of the Lyr 2. Hard choice since I want only to buy one.


----------



## DavidA

CarlosUnchained said:


> Thanks @DavidA ,
> 
> Ember is on the list too, but I think I prefer the preouts and the looks of the Lyr 2. Hard choice since I want only to buy one.



One under rated amp that you might also be interested in is the Teac HA-501, it has adjustable damping factor (impedance) so it can match headphones a lot better like the Ember.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

DavidA said:


> One under rated amp that you might also be interested in is the Teac HA-501, it has adjustable damping factor (impedance) so it can match headphones a lot better like the Ember.



I liked the warmth of the Lyr 2 with the LCD-X, I guess the HA-501 is more neutral or even slightly bright. I'm looking for tubes for a reason, Deckard was the only solid state that I tried that was a tad warmish.


----------



## DavidA

CarlosUnchained said:


> I liked the warmth of the Lyr 2 with the LCD-X, I guess the HA-501 is more neutral or even slightly bright. I'm looking for tubes for a reason, Deckard was the only solid state that I tried that was a tad warmish.



I found the HA-501 a bit warmer than the Lyr2 with stock tubes but not as warm as the Polaris.  The only reason I tried a friends HA-501 was after I got the UD-301 and found that some of my headphone sounded quite good through the headphone jack of the UD-301 so I figured that the HA-501 has a similar design with along with the adjustable damping so it should be about as good or better.  Also with the Lyr2 its going to depend on the tubes used so it needs to be accounted for in impressions, for me I usually have either Telefunken CCa's, Siemens CCa's or Voskhod, clean and neutral to me.


----------



## koover

Would anyone be ever so kind to give me their take on this amp paired with a Mimby and the HP's I have listed in my sig.
My music preferences are also listed in my profile if need be.
I'd be grateful with your input.


----------



## DavidA

koover said:


> Would anyone be ever so kind to give me their take on this amp paired with a Mimby and the HP's I have listed in my sig.
> My music preferences are also listed in my profile if need be.
> I'd be grateful with your input.


The Lyr2 will pair well with all of your headphones but you might be spending a bit on tubes.  I've tried the Jot a few times and to me the Lyr2 with good/decent tubes (Amperx SQ/PQ, 75' Reflektor, Siemens CCa or Telefunken CCa) is a better sounding amp, but like all things here YMMV.  To me the Jot was just a touch on the bright side for my HD800, T1 and HE560.  You can look in my profile to see what I have.  The Nightowls, HD650, and M1060 are all slightly warm so the Jot is a good match for them while the THX00 is a bit too "V" shaped to me and would benefit with a tube amp due to the highs being a bit sharp to me.


----------



## koover (Jul 13, 2017)

DavidA said:


> The Lyr2 will pair well with all of your headphones but you might be spending a bit on tubes.  I've tried the Jot a few times and to me the Lyr2 with good/decent tubes (Amperx SQ/PQ, 75' Reflektor, Siemens CCa or Telefunken CCa) is a better sounding amp, but like all things here YMMV.  To me the Jot was just a touch on the bright side for my HD800, T1 and HE560.  You can look in my profile to see what I have.  The Nightowls, HD650, and M1060 are all slightly warm so the Jot is a good match for them while the THX00 is a bit too "V" shaped to me and would benefit with a tube amp due to the highs being a bit sharp to me.



Thanx. That's great feedback and I understand MMMV.
The TXH-00's are my go to cans over everything else so your input is valuable and solidifies wanting this amp even more. Now I just need someone to trade theirs for my Nightolws. I know, good luck on that one but you never know.
Having a tube amp and rolling is all part of the hobby IMO. If I can't afford it, again.... IMO, I need to get out of it. Never gonna happen.
EDIT: Nice profile read.


----------



## DavidA

koover said:


> Thanx. That's great feedback and I understand MMMV.
> The TXH-00's are my go to cans over everything else so your input is valuable and solidifies wanting this amp even more. Now I just need someone to trade theirs for my Nightolws. I know, good luck on that one but you never know.
> Having a tube amp and rolling is all part of the hobby IMO. If I can't afford it, again.... IMO, I need to get out of it. Never gonna happen.
> EDIT: Nice profile read.



If I were starting now I would go with the Teac HA-501 since with the added cost of tubes the Lyr2 becomes a very pricy amp, cost of tubes is only going to go higher since the good tubes are getting harder to find.  I've spent way too much for tubes, about 2.5 times the cost of the Lyr2 to date but I have enough to last at least 20+ years I think.  Also, I've been using my Nhoord Red V2 and Ypsilon R1 custom builds a lot more these days so I don't even turn on my amps most days since both sound great out of the headphone jack of my computers.  Here are a few pictures of them:


Above is the Nhoord V2, below is the Ypsilon R1


These are not the cheapest to build but to most that have heard them better than the HD600/650, Ether/EtherC, K7XX, LCD-2/3, HE400i/s, any SR series Grado, and Alpha Prime.


----------



## jrflanne

I've had my Lyr2 for a couple of years. I tried the LISST's at first, pulled them and put the stock tubes back in. Well, just tried again, determined to let them warm up and break in a bit. They really improve with a little bit of time. I think I will leave them in for a while. Don't think I will go back to the stock tubes anyway. Cheers.


----------



## RitzyBusiness

Has anyone taken the Lyr 2 apart? I got all the screws off since I am trying to remove these socket savers that came with the amp.   But something in the front of the chassis, most likely near the volume knob doesn't want to let it come off.  Now that i've gotten the other screws off though something dropped into the chassis so i've no choice but to continue going full steam.


----------



## DavidA

While I haven't taken my Lyr2 apart yet I think you need to remove the volume knob to slide out the chassis.  There might also be some screws under the stuck on rubber feet.

I've used a old computer chip puller to get the socket saver out in the pass, not that this will help you now.


----------



## jrflanne

I have a pair of these. Expensive, and a bargain at twice the price. You will be able to grab your socket savers and pull them out. Same with tubes. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VACUUM-TUBE...842732?hash=item1a2fd81fac:g:iecAAOSwgNRV76oq


----------



## RitzyBusiness

Yea, I didn't quite get it because I have nothing to take the knob off but I figured out how to wedge plyers into it and take out the socket saver.  I was able to remove the metal peice.  It was just a backet, and while i'de like to put it back in it doesn't impede on the devices operation so  I am fine.  

That said I will DEFINITELY be picking up a pair of those tube pullers.  While I don't think i'll have this same problem again I appreciate easy tube removal without the savers.


----------



## jrflanne

$20 for something worth $1. But they work, and work well.


----------



## ahmad-bayern

Hello all

My proplem is in lyr 2, i hear every few seconds a very annoying noise.
I tried all the possible solutions, first i switched between optical and USB and The problem Still exist in the two options.
I changed RCA Cables and the problem still exist.
I tried many headphones and the problem still exist.
I changed the cables and the  problem still exist.
I used amp and headphone on my mobile with out a computer and the problem still exist.
I thought the problem is the tubes so i changed many tubes but the problem still exist.
PS: my compo schiit is far away from noise and Router.
So the problem is in lyr 2 .
So what can i do to solve this problem?
Please help me and thanks a lot .
This video shows the problem ( the voice is clear, notes the noise )




.


----------



## DavidA

ahmad-bayern said:


> Hello all
> 
> My proplem is in lyr 2, i hear every few seconds a very annoying noise.
> I tried all the possible solutions, first i switched between optical and USB and The problem Still exist in the two options.
> ...



The video is marked private and I can't play it.  You might want to contact Schiit with this problem.


----------



## ahmad-bayern

DavidA said:


> The video is marked private and I can't play it.  You might want to contact Schiit with this problem.




The video works now 
Please Help

Here is another link


----------



## DavidA

I can hear the clicking sound but I have no idea what could be causing it.  Have you tried to get in touch with Schiit?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Can anyone comment on how the LISST in the Lyr 2 would compare to something like, say, the Magni 2 Uber? I am upgrading from the M2U to the Lyr 2, but would like a solid state option. My options are A) Hold onto the M2U for solid state B) Sell the M2U and pick up the LISST tubes C) sell the M2U, go tube-hybrid for a while and pick up a Jotunheim down the road 

Just wondering if the LISST solid state experience is of comparable or better quality to the M2U.

Thanks!


----------



## DavidA

L0rdGwyn said:


> Can anyone comment on how the LISST in the Lyr 2 would compare to something like, say, the Magni 2 Uber? I am upgrading from the M2U to the Lyr 2, but would like a solid state option. My options are A) Hold onto the M2U for solid state B) Sell the M2U and pick up the LISST tubes C) sell the M2U, go tube-hybrid for a while and pick up a Jotunheim down the road
> 
> Just wondering if the LISST solid state experience is of comparable or better quality to the M2U.
> 
> Thanks!


I tried the LISST tubes once, didn't like them since they were quite bright and a little harsh in the highs to me but didn't seem that bad in my friends Mjolnir2.  If I were to get another SS amp for under $300-500 it would be the Polaris, very flexible and one of the better deals at $250 but its also slightly warmer than neutral and one of the few SS amps that I liked with the HD700 which most usually like with a OTL or hybrid.  The Jot is a great amp but to me and a few others is slightly on the bright side and didn't pair well with HE560, HD800 and T1g1, way to harsh in the highs for me but if you have warmer headphones like the pre-Fazor LCD series, HD650 or Nighthawk then the Jot is a good match.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

DavidA said:


> I tried the LISST tubes once, didn't like them since they were quite bright and a little harsh in the highs to me but didn't seem that bad in my friends Mjolnir2.  If I were to get another SS amp for under $300-500 it would be the Polaris, very flexible and one of the better deals at $250 but its also slightly warmer than neutral and one of the few SS amps that I liked with the HD700 which most usually like with a OTL or hybrid.  The Jot is a great amp but to me and a few others is slightly on the bright side and didn't pair well with HE560, HD800 and T1g1, way to harsh in the highs for me but if you have warmer headphones like the pre-Fazor LCD series, HD650 or Nighthawk then the Jot is a good match.



Thanks for your thoughts, @DavidA !  I will keep that in mind, not too familiar with the Polaris but will surely read about it.  I have been for a while a bit of a Schiit brand loyalist, been happy with everything I've purchased from them so far, but the idea of a SS amp that has a warmer flavor is definitely appealing.  I'll probably stay away from the LISST for now and save the money for a future SS.


----------



## DavidA

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for your thoughts, @DavidA !  I will keep that in mind, not too familiar with the Polaris but will surely read about it.  I have been for a while a bit of a Schiit brand loyalist, been happy with everything I've purchased from them so far, but the idea of a SS amp that has a warmer flavor is definitely appealing.  I'll probably stay away from the LISST for now and save the money for a future SS.


These are the SS amps that to me were neutral or very slightly warm: HA-501 (a higher end Polaris), Liquid Carbon (a cheap Liquid Crimson), G-109 (cheaper version of V-200), Heron 5 (love the separate high/low impedance output), AudioGD Master 9. and RSA DarkStar.  While I like the value that one gets with Schiit gear most amps are neutral or slightly bright to me but I still have my Asgard2, Lyr2, Bifrost MB Bifrost Uber, Modi2uber and a pair of SYS so can't say I have anything against them either.


----------



## Weez

I feel like…I need to…start tube rolling  But I don’t have the patience at the moment to hunt tubes on eBay or here, so ehm…any good websites selling tubes? Are the first Google search hits ok?


----------



## RitzyBusiness (Sep 10, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Can anyone comment on how the LISST in the Lyr 2 would compare to something like, say, the Magni 2 Uber? I am upgrading from the M2U to the Lyr 2, but would like a solid state option. My options are A) Hold onto the M2U for solid state B) Sell the M2U and pick up the LISST tubes C) sell the M2U, go tube-hybrid for a while and pick up a Jotunheim down the road
> 
> Just wondering if the LISST solid state experience is of comparable or better quality to the M2U.
> 
> Thanks!


 
Kind of depends on the headphones, with some of my cans I prefer tubes.  With my LCD-2 I prefer the solid state option of the LISST.   Compared to the Magni 2 Uber there is more authority and power being draw to them which meshes well with the LCD-2's, sound signature is similar but the extra power just gives it a bit more oomph and stability.

If your headphones are already being properly suited by the magni 2 uber you may not notice much if any difference.  Other then the potential for more noise, this amp is alot noisier then the magni even in low gain. Granted in most cases its not audible unless you crank it up, but some particularly sensitive cans like the Grado SR80 are able to pick it up a bit sooner.  Though you will know if you should be running low or high gain with this amp almost right away based off of the noise.

What you get in advantage over the magni 2 is versatility in being able suitably power any headphone you throw at it over single ended output  (since most headphones come standard SE, its a pretty big deal if you don't want to go through the hassle of balanced drive.)


----------



## DavidA

Weez said:


> I feel like…I need to…start tube rolling  But I don’t have the patience at the moment to hunt tubes on eBay or here, so ehm…any good websites selling tubes? Are the first Google search hits ok?


try: http://www.tubemonger.com/


----------



## FumblingFoo

http://www.thetubestore.com/ is another good option. Might be easier to start out with but tubemonger seems to have more and better tubes.

Its been a while since I've listened to the stock tubes and as time has passed I'm surprised at the difference different tubes make. That's a really nice feature of the Lyr 2 that keeps me coming back to it, probably need to do some more tube rolling myself.


----------



## jrflanne

DavidA said:


> I can hear the clicking sound but I have no idea what could be causing it.  Have you tried to get in touch with Schiit?


Schiit dacs will click.


----------



## RastaDolphin

winders said:


> 1. My Lyr 2 sounds fine when first turned on. But, it sounds better and better as it warms up. After an hour or so I think it is basically warmed up even though the box itself gets warmer and warmer over a 2 to 3 hour period. I turn my Lyr 2 off when I going to be away from it for an hour or so. Tubes are expensive and turning the amp on and off occasionally does not hurt the amp or the tubes.
> 
> 2. I use a Modi Multibit with my Lyr 2. As far as I can tell it is a great combination. I love the sound I am getting from my setup.
> 
> ...



Hey, winders, I was just about to order the Modi 2 and Schiit's rca cables to go with my Lyr. Are those the cables you're using? I'd like to put them side by side and not stack them, though. Is that possible with the length of those cables?


----------



## DavidA

RastaDolphin said:


> Hey, winders, I was just about to order the Modi 2 and Schiit's rca cables to go with my Lyr. Are those the cables you're using? I'd like to put them side by side and not stack them, though. Is that possible with the length of those cables?


The short cable sold by Schiit are made for stacking only, its about an inch too short for side by side and even then its a tight fit.


----------



## RastaDolphin

DavidA said:


> The short cable sold by Schiit are made for stacking only, its about an inch too short for side by side and even then its a tight fit.



Ok. Thanks a lot. Know of any slightly longer comparable options? I get sleepy quick reading about cables. haha


----------



## jrflanne

Blue Jean Cables will make you a 1 footer.


----------



## DavidA

RastaDolphin said:


> Ok. Thanks a lot. Know of any slightly longer comparable options? I get sleepy quick reading about cables. haha


check out amazon, they have a good selection of cables.  I don't believe is spending more than $20-30 for RCA cables and I've found that I can build my own RCA inter connects for cheaper using wires and connectors of a decent/good known quality that is usually better than pre-made ones for the same price or less.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

RitzyBusiness said:


> Kind of depends on the headphones, with some of my cans I prefer tubes.  With my LCD-2 I prefer the solid state option of the LISST.   Compared to the Magni 2 Uber there is more authority and power being draw to them which meshes well with the LCD-2's, sound signature is similar but the extra power just gives it a bit more oomph and stability.
> 
> If your headphones are already being properly suited by the magni 2 uber you may not notice much if any difference.  Other then the potential for more noise, this amp is alot noisier then the magni even in low gain. Granted in most cases its not audible unless you crank it up, but some particularly sensitive cans like the Grado SR80 are able to pick it up a bit sooner.  Though you will know if you should be running low or high gain with this amp almost right away based off of the noise.
> 
> What you get in advantage over the magni 2 is versatility in being able suitably power any headphone you throw at it over single ended output  (since most headphones come standard SE, its a pretty big deal if you don't want to go through the hassle of balanced drive.)



Thanks for your response! Good to know.  At this point though, I am very deep into the tube rolling game on the Lyr 2 lol.  Right out of the gate, I did some A/B comparisons against the M2U.  Initially, with the stock tubes and one other set of E188CC's, the differences were not that obvious to me.  But now, and after rolling many different tubes (including several from the 5670/2C51 group) I have found some sets that completely blow the M2U away.  I may consider the LISST down the road out of curiosity.  I was expecting the sonic changes with the tubes to be so different from what I was used to with SS that I would find the change jarring, but on the contrary, I have found that the sound is a huge improvement.  With the Lyr 2, I particularly like the Western Electric JW 2C51's, Tesla 6CC42's, and Tung Sol 2C51's.  Magni 2 Uber is on the selling block!


----------



## RastaDolphin

jrflanne said:


> Blue Jean Cables will make you a 1 footer.


Interesting. Thanks for the info.



DavidA said:


> check out amazon, they have a good selection of cables.  I don't believe is spending more than $20-30 for RCA cables and I've found that I can build my own RCA inter connects for cheaper using wires and connectors of a decent/good known quality that is usually better than pre-made ones for the same price or less.



Ok. Thanks.


----------



## RastaDolphin

DavidA said:


> check out amazon, they have a good selection of cables.  I don't believe is spending more than $20-30 for RCA cables and I've found that I can build my own RCA inter connects for cheaper using wires and connectors of a decent/good known quality that is usually better than pre-made ones for the same price or less.


Ended up ordering some KabelDirekt cables from amazon. I tend to stay away from companies with poor names like that because it makes me doubt the sophistication of the company but I'll let you know how they are when they come in ... if I can tell much difference with the cheapies I already have. They look pretty good and are review well. "double-shielded, OFC," blah blah


----------



## RastaDolphin (Sep 15, 2017)

Oh. Im an idiot, of course. KabelDirekt is a German company which is why it's spelled that way. Definitely makes me feel better about the purchase. Haha They should probably advertise "Made in Germany." Aaaand they're fantastic Kabels, FYI! They're pretty stiff though and have a slightly longer than normal terminal casing which means you need some room (maybe 6" to 7") between the ports and whatever else is in front of (or more likely, behind) them.


----------



## RitzyBusiness (Sep 16, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for your response! Good to know.  At this point though, I am very deep into the tube rolling game on the Lyr 2 lol.  Right out of the gate, I did some A/B comparisons against the M2U.  Initially, with the stock tubes and one other set of E188CC's, the differences were not that obvious to me.  But now, and after rolling many different tubes (including several from the 5670/2C51 group) I have found some sets that completely blow the M2U away.  I may consider the LISST down the road out of curiosity.  I was expecting the sonic changes with the tubes to be so different from what I was used to with SS that I would find the change jarring, but on the contrary, I have found that the sound is a huge improvement.  With the Lyr 2, I particularly like the Western Electric JW 2C51's, Tesla 6CC42's, and Tung Sol 2C51's.  Magni 2 Uber is on the selling block!



I am honestly not sure how they rank, but I got these Orange Globes with the amp and on most headphones it sounds like a substantial upgrade over a solid state device like the Magni2 or Lisst.  Probably all I need, i've tried some other tubes but nothing really hits my ears as well as these.  Of course as stated above the lisst is also fantastic for some headphones and I definitely don't owning them.



DavidA said:


> check out amazon, they have a good selection of cables.  I don't believe is spending more than $20-30 for RCA cables and I've found that I can build my own RCA inter connects for cheaper using wires and connectors of a decent/good known quality that is usually better than pre-made ones for the same price or less.



I actually like BJC, the quality is great, the plugs are great, the cable material is great and they are well designed to do their job without any silly oily gimmicks(non-believer, sue me, no don't please).  I've done custom order headphone cable with them in the past to make a shorter cable.


----------



## DavidA

@RitzyBusiness , I have a few BJC cables, agree they are good for the price.


----------



## RastaDolphin (Sep 17, 2017)

RitzyBusiness said:


> I am honestly not sure how they rank, but I got these Orange Globes with the amp and on most headphones it sounds like a substantial upgrade over a solid state device like the Magni2 or Lisst.  Probably all I need, i've tried some other tubes but nothing really hits my ears as well as these.  Of course as stated above the lisst is also fantastic for some headphones and I definitely don't owning them.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually like BJC, the quality is great, the plugs are great, the cable material is great and they are well designed to do their job without any silly oily gimmicks(non-believer, sue me, no don't please).  I've done custom order headphone cable with them in the past to make a shorter cable.



Yeah, I've been reading a lot about them and I'm convinced I need to get them to make an upgrade (and shorter) cable as well. What length did you go with? And how do you like it? Did the sound improve much from whatever you were using before?


----------



## Alcophone (Nov 9, 2017)

RastaDolphin said:


> Oh. Im an idiot, of course. KabelDirekt is a German company which is why it's spelled that way. Definitely makes me feel better about the purchase. Haha They should probably advertise "Made in Germany." Aaaand they're fantastic Kabels, FYI! They're pretty stiff though and have a slightly longer than normal terminal casing which means you need some room (maybe 6" to 7") between the ports and whatever else is in front of (or more likely, behind) them.


I quite like them, too! I'm by no means a cable expert, but I have a 5m, 2m and 1m RCA cable from them, and a 2m and 1m aux cable for my headphones.

I'm using the 5m RCA from the Schiit SYS to my subwoofer (via an AudioQuest RCA splitter), and the Schiit PYST cables to the Vidar, and to my DAC. At some other point I had the SYS on the couch, with a 2m RCA to the sub, the 5m RCA to the Vidar, and the 1m RCA to my DAC. Despite the SYS being passive, I didn't notice any issues. Maybe I would have with some really careful listening, but at least it's not super bad - despite the subwoofer cable running parallel to some power cables. The RCA cables are a bit thicker than Schiit's PYST cables.

The cable that came with my Philips SHP9500S started cutting out (sticking with the German theme, it had a Wackelkontakt, i.e. a wobble contact), so I got the 2m one and compared it to the stock cable that came with my Focal Listen, and thought it sounded slightly better (cleaner, punchier), so I got the 1m for the Focal, which I use on the go. The first 1m aux cable I got had some issues, and also a different, simpler logo (like this: https://kabeldirekt-store.de/media/...ab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/100008-1_8.jpg). That was sold by Amazon directly, while the other cables I got from KabelDirekt selling on Amazon. Today I received another 1m aux cable, sold by KabelDirekt instead of Amazon, and it has that older, fancier logo (like this: https://kabeldirekt-store.de/media/...e/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/_/1.jpeg). So far it's working without issues.

Edit: I also have their aux to RCA cable for when I want to use my Sound Blaster E5 as the DAC instead of the iDSD, which doesn't have TOSlink in. The individual cables leading to the RCA connectors aren't nearly as thick as with their RCA cables, but still sturdier than some cheap cables I have.


----------



## Alcophone

Hey folks,

I'd appreciate your help. I'm in the process of picking a new pair of open headphones. To kick things off, I got the Acoustic Research AR-H1 since I have heard good things about them, couldn't audition them anywhere and because AR has a 30 day return policy. I want to compare these to other headphones (AEON Flow Open, Ether Flow, Focal Clear and more) at my go to audio store.
I wanted to make sure that whatever headphone I try isn't held back by my current go to DAC/amp, the iFi nano iDSD. I considered the Jotunheim and Lyr 2, but wasn't sure which one would be the better choice. I had zero experience with tubes, and a friend was curious about the Lyr 2, so I got these two to compare and to also get more familiar with the infamous "tube sound". I ordered the Jotunheim with DAC module, and the Lyr 2 with LISST and tubes, and also got the Gold Lion E88CC/6922 recommended by some, and the Matsushita/National PCC88/7DJ8 that is Dan's budget recommendation for the Mjolnir 2 sold on mrspeakers.com. I got the tubes from Upscale Audio (Platinum Grade, no cryo).

On Monday, the two Schiit amps arrived. I hooked up the nano iDSD with AudioQuest RCA splitters and PYST cables to both amps, and set the volume on both amps equally high (by ear), using low gain on both.
I switched back and forth between the two amps, starting out with the LISST modules. Tonally, they sounded very similar to me, but from the get go, the Lyr 2/LISST combo seemed softer, rolled off to me compared to the Jotunheim. Transients and bass had noticeably less impact.
At most 30 min. later I switched to the stock tubes, and... didn't notice any difference. That surprised me quite a bit! Not sure how long I gave that a chance, but hardly anyone is a fan of the stock tubes anyway.
So I moved on to the Gold Lions. Oh, hello! Right away (without giving the tubes much of a warmup), the sound was more engaging, more vivid, with more sparkle in the highs (than before) as well - less rolled off than with LISST or stock tubes. I liked that! But, going back and forth, the Jotunheim still had more slam, more precision, and sounded cleaner, too.
Finally, the National tubes. Less engaging than the Gold Lions, but otherwise very similar as far as I could tell, i.e. also less rolled off than stock tubes/LISST, but not on par with the Jotunheim.
The second day, I went back to the Gold Lions, and noticed that with some distortion-prone recordings like Sarah Jarosz's album Undercurrent, Lyr 2 sounded harsh and somewhat dirty, while the Jotunheim remained clean and in control. Whenever I switched back to the Jotunheim, it seemed a bit dull for a few seconds, but that was quickly forgotten, while I continued to enjoy the better transients and bass slam, without missing what the tubes did better in direct comparison.

My interest in the Lyr 2 as a headphone amp is now greatly diminished. I still want to hook it up as a preamp to my speaker system, but just to test tubes there - I plan on getting Freya in the long run for a balanced setup. Pretty sure the Jotunheim is a keeper. I'll definitely miss the Lyr 2 in the winter, I did grow fond of it as a hand warmer!

So, as a toob noob, I'd like some input from you. Does what I hear seam about right, or am I crazy? Is what I perceive as "more engaging" the infamous tube warmth? Am I even getting an accurate impression when listening right after turning the Lyr 2 back on? How long should I give the Lyr 2 as such to warm up, and, when I then switch tubes, how long should I give the newly switched in tube in the already toasty amp to warm up? Which of the tubes do you consider most promising to be able to identify that tube sound? Can you (the reader) even reliably tell a tube amp from a solid state amp in a blind test? Or maybe only with a full tube amp, not a hybrid like the Lyr 2? Are there any songs that particularly benefit from tubes? Anything that I should listen for in particular when auditioning tubes? Any budget friendly tubes that should yield spectacularly different results?

I'm happy to say that I didn't notice any pops or hisses, or microphonics, etc. So the good thing about this experiment is that I'm more inclined to see tubes as just one of many valid technology choices in amps, instead of something inherently inferior to modern technology. Mostly because I actually liked both non-stock tubes better than the LISST modules, so maybe it's something about Lyr 2 as such that just isn't as good as Jotunheim, regardless of the tubes used.

Just for the record, I only later used the Jotunheim's DAC module (and liked it slightly better than the nano iDSD), and I don't have any balanced cables yet (I'm leaving that for when I have made my choice about the headphones), so in the above comparisons, it was always the same DAC, same pair of headphones and always single ended.


----------



## RastaDolphin

Wow! Good job getting a succinct description of all your concerns in one comment. haha Well, I'm no tube expert either. The Lyr is my only extended experience with tubes. Even so, I suspect it doesn't give a true indication of what the "tube experience" is all about since it's not dedicated tubes and instead a hybrid. That being said, I've noticed quite a difference between different tubes. I actually have swapped out tubes based on my source -- using one set for vinyl and another for digital.

As far as warm up time, most people have advised me to give them at least 10 minutes to warm but really "cook" after about an hour but honestly, it being such a stretch of time I haven't noticed a difference from a minute after I turn it on. I just have no way to judge the sound I heard an hour ago against what I'm now hearing.

As far as your overall question, forget everything you read and trust your ears. I'm sure you've heard that before but it's so true. If you're happy with the Jotenheim, rock on! You'll definitely save time and money trying to find the best tubes.

As far music to pair with tubes, I'd recommend just listening to what you normally listen to. You want your gear to produce the best results with the music you like ... if your goal is to enjoy your music more. BUT, I like listening to very textured layered stuff. Not sure what your preferences are but Yosi Horikawa's last album "Vapor" is a really fun enjoyable album that's also a treasure trove of sound. He stuff is based around field recordings. Enjoy.

(I really wanna try those Gold Lions now. haha)


----------



## RastaDolphin

Actually, don't listen to me. I just did a test where I listened to the same part of a track when I first turn on the Lyr, 10 minutes later, and then an hour later and yes there's a big difference. But it sounds great right away. I usually just fire it up and start listening to different stuff because I'm impatient which makes it hard to judge but there you go.


----------



## Alcophone

RastaDolphin said:


> Actually, don't listen to me. I just did a test where I listened to the same part of a track when I first turn on the Lyr, 10 minutes later, and then an hour later and yes there's a big difference. But it sounds great right away. I usually just fire it up and start listening to different stuff because I'm impatient which makes it hard to judge but there you go.


Hah, I appreciate the effort! I think I'll take it back to the office tomorrow and run it just with the Gold Lions.
Yosi Horikawa's Bubbles taught me that my Focal Listen doesn't have neutral bass as I previously thought, but a bit of a bass boost. Sounds really nice with some genres, but makes natural sounds like in Bubbles, and bassy instruments, sound unnatural. The AR-H1 does that better. Makes me want to get a Loki for those moments where a bit of extra oomph is warranted (much more practical than swapping tubes, too).


----------



## DavidA

@Alcophone are you only using the AR-H1 in all of your evaluations?  If so, you might want to try other headphones with the Jot and Lyr2 since different headphones react differently to different amps.  My impression of the Jot was it was a bit bright with some harshness in the treble with headphones that I was thinking of use it with (HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560) but with slightly warmer headphones like the HD650 and SRH-1840 the Jot was quite good, almost as good as the HD650 + BH Crack pairing.  The Jot is a great amp but being able to roll tubes is where the Lyr2 has an edge if you want to fine tune the sound and not all tube amps are warm/lush sounding.
I'm a bit different since I'm not looking for neutral / natural sound or "how the artist intended it to sound" but a sound that excites me and draws me in to the music, keeps me wanting to listen to just one more song even when the GF is bugging me to get to bed, or to listen to more songs just to finish a bottle of wine.
I actually have a pair of Gold Lion tubes in my Lyr2 at the moment and its a decent tube for the price.  I usually just rotate my tubes in my Lyr2, Ember, and BH Crack about once a month just to have a slightly different sound each month, it gets me to appreciate the different flavors of the various tubes and how they pair with the different headphones.


----------



## Alcophone

DavidA said:


> @Alcophone are you only using the AR-H1 in all of your evaluations?  If so, you might want to try other headphones with the Jot and Lyr2 since different headphones react differently to different amps.  My impression of the Jot was it was a bit bright with some harshness in the treble with headphones that I was thinking of use it with (HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560) but with slightly warmer headphones like the HD650 and SRH-1840 the Jot was quite good, almost as good as the HD650 + BH Crack pairing.  The Jot is a great amp but being able to roll tubes is where the Lyr2 has an edge if you want to fine tune the sound and not all tube amps are warm/lush sounding.
> I'm a bit different since I'm not looking for neutral / natural sound or "how the artist intended it to sound" but a sound that excites me and draws me in to the music, keeps me wanting to listen to just one more song even when the GF is bugging me to get to bed, or to listen to more songs just to finish a bottle of wine.
> I actually have a pair of Gold Lion tubes in my Lyr2 at the moment and its a decent tube for the price.  I usually just rotate my tubes in my Lyr2, Ember, and BH Crack about once a month just to have a slightly different sound each month, it gets me to appreciate the different flavors of the various tubes and how they pair with the different headphones.


I briefly used the Focal Listen as well, but not long enough to say much about it yet. I'll do some more listening with it, and the Philips at home, though they are the ones I want to replace. Also want to meet up with my friend who has the Ether Flow, and take the Jotunheim to my go to audio store. The good thing is that I like it bright (Audeze tends to be too dark to me), but harsh I don't like either.


----------



## DavidA

There is a way to get the Lyr2 to have the dynamics, slam, bass of the Jot while still not being harsh in the highs but the tubes are really over priced these days.  If you can find Telefunken CCa, Siemens CCa, or 74-75 Reflektor tubes they will take the Lyr2 to a nice level, about as good as the Lyr2 will sound IMO.


I only keep one pair of the Telefunken and Siemens at home, the other 2 pairs of Telefunken and Siemens are in a controlled environment storage locker along with most of my speaker gear.

Can't believe how much the prices for these went up over the years, they are good but not for the current asking prices IMO.


----------



## koover

DavidA said:


> There is a way to get the Lyr2 to have the dynamics, slam, bass of the Jot while still not being harsh in the highs but the tubes are really over priced these days.  If you can find Telefunken CCa, Siemens CCa, or 74-75 Reflektor tubes they will take the Lyr2 to a nice level, about as good as the Lyr2 will sound IMO.
> 
> I only keep one pair of the Telefunken and Siemens at home, the other 2 pairs of Telefunken and Siemens are in a controlled environment storage locker along with most of my speaker gear.
> 
> Can't believe how much the prices for these went up over the years, they are good but not for the current asking prices IMO.



I was looking hard at the Telefunken tubes the past few days and WTH? A pair of inexpensive sets will run you at a minimum $150 all the way up to a grand. Forget that noise as that 2x’s the cost of the amp. I don’t  care how good they sound, I’ll upgrade amps first before I spend that kind of money on a single set of tubes.
But thanx for the ideas on the other tubes you mentioned and showed.


----------



## DavidA

The Telefunken's used to be "affordable" at one point ...a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.....$110/pair IIRC and even then I thought it was over priced, LOL.  I did get a pair of Siemens CCa for $80 many years ago and some Bugle Boys for $40/pair way back then also.  These days I'm glad my ex-GF told me to just get what I want back then since she was paying for some of them.
@koover , agree with you about paying 2x the price of the amp for tubes and like you I'd never do that either these days and a new/different amps is a much better way to go.


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## Alcophone

Finally, a use for my food thermometer.


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## DavidA

@Alcophone , that is a great picture, LOL.  The Lyr2 does get hot and since I already live in Hawaii near the beach I've had to use a fan to keep the temperatures from getting really high.  You might want to get some socket savers (from TubeMonger) to get the tubes a bit higher out of the amps so they will run a bit cooler and also making it much easier to change tubes.
This is what I use to measure the temp:
 
Quicker and I don't have to even get close


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## Alcophone

DavidA said:


> @Alcophone , that is a great picture, LOL.  The Lyr2 does get hot and since I already live in Hawaii near the beach I've had to use a fan to keep the temperatures from getting really high.  You might want to get some socket savers (from TubeMonger) to get the tubes a bit higher out of the amps so they will run a bit cooler and also making it much easier to change tubes.
> This is what I use to measure the temp:
> 
> Quicker and I don't have to even get close


That's probably a lot more a accurate  It feels much hotter than I would expect based on the temperature that I measured. I kind of like it, as if it must be working really hard for me ^^

I left it on for a while without listening to it. It sounded perfectly enjoyable, but not like it has surpassed the Jotunheim. Yes, potentially with the right tubes, it might, but until there are amazing production tubes (if that ever happens) I'd rather avoid that game. I'm giving the Lyr 2 to a friend tomorrow so he can check it out with his Ether Flow (and LCD-X).

I'm hoping to compare the Jotunheim to the Auralic Taurus MkII and the iFi pro iCan tomorrow, as well as a friend's GS-X Mk2. I hope I can even tell the difference. It took me a while to compare the nano iDSD to the Jotunheim, but I did eventually notice that the iDSD seems to be running out of steam a bit when it comes to bass attack, it's ever so slightly rounder, muddier. I wouldn't have noticed on its own. They were closer than the Jotunheim vs Lyr 2 with LISST/stock tubes (without warmup time, at least).

Chris from Audio Vision SF said that it won't be a fair comparison because of warmup time (none for the Jotunheim/GS-X, probably weeks for the Taurus and iCan). We'll see! At least the store amps will be nicely cornered in terms of price.


----------



## DavidA

The stock tubes and the LISST were my least liked in the Lyr2 and I'd agree the Jot is better if that is what you are using to compare the two but using some decent tubes the Lyr2 is better match with more headphones than the Jot.


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## Alcophone

DavidA said:


> The stock tubes and the LISST were my least liked in the Lyr2 and I'd agree the Jot is better if that is what you are using to compare the two but using some decent tubes the Lyr2 is better match with more headphones than the Jot.


That definitely makes sense. I'm in the fortunate position where I can pick headphone and amp at the same time, so I can tailor the combination however I like. Though I certainly am on a path to owning several headphones that are amazing in their own right, for now it's all about upgrading. When that changes, I can still get a Mjolnir 3 or something


----------



## Oklahoma

Both are great for spot temp measurements. I prefer to see how the heat is distributed and what is hot.


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## Alcophone

Oklahoma said:


> Both are great for spot temp measurements. I prefer to see how the heat is distributed and what is hot.


You're gonna make me a different kind of gear nerd with those pictures!


----------



## Oklahoma

These pictures are older, the setup had changed but still shows the devices in general. I really need to put my tubes back in the freya and take another picture with everything on. It is interesting because on the lyr2 the tubes are running at around 180°-190°f the top left of the case where the transformer is runs around 115°-120°f and yes the volume knob is at 104°f. 

While I find things like this interesting what the thermal camera has been used for the most is finding our cats.


----------



## Alcophone

Oklahoma said:


> These pictures are older, the setup had changed but still shows the devices in general. I really need to put my tubes back in the freya and take another picture with everything on. It is interesting because on the lyr2 the tubes are running at around 180°-190°f the top left of the case where the transformer is runs around 115°-120°f and yes the volume knob is at 104°f.
> 
> While I find things like this interesting what the thermal camera has been used for the most is finding our cats.


Good thing mine doesn't have a ton of hiding spots  Do yours get to go outside?
What kind thermal camera are you using?


----------



## Oklahoma

Alcophone said:


> Good thing mine doesn't have a ton of hiding spots  Do yours get to go outside?
> What kind thermal camera are you using?



They are usually pretty easy to find. We now know most of the hiding spots but every now and then they find a new one. They don't really go outside much, just out on the deck (second floor apartment). The camera is from seek thermal and is just the regular compact one. Been happy with it for the small amount of use it sees. For the price $250; there really isn't much comparable out there.


----------



## DavidA

Oklahoma said:


> These pictures are older, the setup had changed but still shows the devices in general. I really need to put my tubes back in the freya and take another picture with everything on. It is interesting because on the lyr2 the tubes are running at around 180°-190°f the top left of the case where the transformer is runs around 115°-120°f and yes the volume knob is at 104°f.
> 
> While I find things like this interesting what the thermal camera has been used for the most is finding our cats.


Using the Raytek the highest temp I've seen on the tubes is 146F (on the filament that is glowing), granted I have socket savers which raise the tubes about 9/16" up and a small 12v fan run with a 5v power source so its very quiet and provides just a very slight air flow over the top of the Lyr2.


----------



## koover

Let's revive this thread again with probably a silly question. Silly answers are welcomed right back at me.

*Using a Lyr 2 with a Loki. Yes? No?*

I'm thinking out loud here wondering if I was to slide the Loki into my chain while rolling tubes, doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of said rolling?
I'm always looking for the best sound with each set of HP's I own by rolling the different tubes I have. But isn't rolling supposed to take care of that? Am I on the straight with this before introducing it into the chain? I've read so many good things about this component and for the price, which is pretty inexpensive, I'm thinking on pulling the trigger but wanted some of your guys input/thoughts and "opinions"


----------



## timb5881

No one says you can only use 1 set of tubes for all headphones!  You certainly roll to no end, up hill or down or all around.  And the Loki can be handy for fine tuning on top of the tubes rolled in.   Just remember that a change in tubes can change detail or extension that the Loki can not do.  That can also looked at in a recorded piece of music that lacks bass or treble depth and extension that the Loki can help boost where it is needed.


----------



## DavidA

koover said:


> Let's revive this thread again with probably a silly question. Silly answers are welcomed right back at me.
> 
> *Using a Lyr 2 with a Loki. Yes? No?*
> 
> ...


Go for it, just do it
I really don't see any negatives but it might add some distortion which may or may not be noticeable.


----------



## koover (Dec 18, 2017)

Hello,
Have a question as I'm VERY frustrated.
Every single tube I use I'm getting distortion/static type noise with every single track I play. It's "p!$$ me off noticeable" in quite passages. Like at the end of a piano note, guitar strum, etc. This obviously is when it's must noticeable. I listen to a lot of hard stuff so obviously it blends in with the distorted guitars. I still hear it all the time though. It's every single HP too.
I'm using the tubemonger socket saver and an 6N3 to ECC88 adapter, of course only when using 5679/2C51 or 6N3P variants.
Can a socket saver or an adapter cause this? I need to find out whats making this happen as I won't be able to take this much longer.
Any suggestions guys?


----------



## DavidA

I'm going to assume you used Deoxit on the pins of the tubes and socket savers.  If you remove the socket saver an plug the tubes directly in to the Lyr2 do you still have the distortion/static?  If you do then I think your issue is a connection from source to DAC or from DAC to Lyr2 and could be a USB issue or just a bad connection.


----------



## koover

Hey David, never saw this. The same thing happens on the Jot. I'm clueless at this point without ripping the entire system and PC apart.


----------



## DavidA

koover said:


> Hey David, never saw this. The same thing happens on the Jot. I'm clueless at this point without ripping the entire system and PC apart.


If the same thing happens on the Jot then its not with either amp and I'd try a headphone connected to the headphone jack of the PC to see if the problem is the PC or the DAC.


----------



## gardibolt

I have a Lyr 2 on the way with an assortment of tubes.  Anyone have experience with any of the following from my stable of headphones with the Lyr 2?

Oppo PM-3
Focal Elear 
HiFiMan HE-400S
AKG K550 and 7XX
Sennheiser HD600 and HD6XX 
Beyerdynamic DT660 and DT880 (600 ohm)
Sony 7506

Man, I need to edit these down.


----------



## DavidA

gardibolt said:


> I have a Lyr 2 on the way with an assortment of tubes.  Anyone have experience with any of the following from my stable of headphones with the Lyr 2?
> 
> Oppo PM-3
> Focal Elear
> ...



K7XX: usually used with Ember, has better synergy with the Ember due to the adjustable output impedance
HD650: BH Crack is one of the best pairing, Teac A-H01 or HT receiver - better sounding to me than with the Lyr2
HD6XX: see above
MDR-7506: only used with Fiio X3 or X3ii when traveling

Similar headphones:
HE400i: similar to the HD650/6XX that I like it paired with the Ember or Teac UD-301 headphone jack over the Lyr2
K553: not used much but also prefer the Teac A-H01 over the Lyr2 for me
DT-990 premium 250 ohm: I like it best on BH Crack but its not bad on the Lyr2


----------



## gardibolt

DavidA said:


> K7XX: usually used with Ember, has better synergy with the Ember due to the adjustable output impedance
> HD650: BH Crack is one of the best pairing, Teac A-H01 or HT receiver - better sounding to me than with the Lyr2
> HD6XX: see above
> MDR-7506: only used with Fiio X3 or X3ii when traveling
> ...


Thanks for the info David.  It's disappointing that they won't pair well with anything I have.  Maybe this was a mistake.


----------



## DavidA

gardibolt said:


> Thanks for the info David.  It's disappointing that they won't pair well with anything I have.  Maybe this was a mistake.


I wouldn't say they don't pair well but its more my preference that has evolved over time that I've come to like certain pairings and its not a better or worse issue most of the time.

The K7XX is a little weird in the impedance and its probably why I like it with the Ember over the Lyr2 but it does sound more lively on the Lyr2 so if that is what you are looking for the Lyr2 is a better match.

With the HD650/6XX the BH Crack is about as good as it gets but I'd be fine with them driven by the Lyr2.

One of the reasons I have more than one amp is I like to listen to a few headphones at the same time so having 3-4 amps connected to 3-4 different headphones make it easy to switch and since my GF is also listening with me we keep switching headphone a lot, it might be during a song of after a few tracks and she doesn't always agree with my preferences.

I'd say try the Lyr2 for a month or two and judge for yourself if its for you or not.


----------



## Zackobrien

Almost got this  Jot ftw though!


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 2, 2018)

Well I only have about 10 hours in with the Lyr 2 but some encouraging results.  I started off with 1958 D-getter Bugle Boys thanks to kind folks in the tube rolling thread to get a sense of 6922 flavor. 

The Oppo PM-3 was a no-go.  Way too much bass, overpowering everything else.  Nope. 

But the DT880 (600 ohm) on high gain was a revelation.  They're usually too bright and lacking in deep bass on my solid state amps to be very satisfying.  They responded very well to these tubes, taming the high end a lot and giving much more life to the bottom. Spectacular change. 

The Focal Elear also benefited handsomely in terms of soundstage and presence.  The impact was still there and if anything richer and more immediate. A few Bach organ chorales exhibited the best subbass I've ever heard from a headphone. Wow. 

I will need to reevaluate my whole headphone collection with these and other tubes (I have several pairs of tubes from the 2C51 family and adapters in wait to try as well), but early results are quite encouraging.  I'm pretty sure it's a keeper after all.  Maybe managing my expectations helped.


----------



## raf1919

I have bimby/ashgard2 stack.  I want add tube/hybrid to my stack to just have some fun with tube rolling.  I purchased Vali2 and still in return window, wondering if going form vali2 to lyr2 is worthy upg?  I just feel like would get more effect out 2 tube vs 1 tube rolling.  Anyone with both have any feedback for me?


----------



## DavidA

raf1919 said:


> I have bimby/ashgard2 stack.  I want add tube/hybrid to my stack to just have some fun with tube rolling.  I purchased Vali2 and still in return window, wondering if going form vali2 to lyr2 is worthy upg?  I just feel like would get more effect out 2 tube vs 1 tube rolling.  Anyone with both have any feedback for me?


While I'd say the Lyr2 would be an "upgrade" to the Vali2 it might not be that much of a difference for most of the headphones you currently have and I think a Project Ember might be a better choice if you want to roll tubes since its much more flexible with different families of tubes and its output impedance is adjustable so its much more flexible with different headphones.  I'd also pass on the Valhalla2 since it doesn't seem to respond to tube rolling as much as other tube amps that I've tried and I'd say its a bit on the lean/dry sounding to me, not my preference.


----------



## raf1919

DavidA said:


> While I'd say the Lyr2 would be an "upgrade" to the Vali2 it might not be that much of a difference for most of the headphones you currently have and I think a Project Ember might be a better choice if you want to roll tubes since its much more flexible with different families of tubes and its output impedance is adjustable so its much more flexible with different headphones.  I'd also pass on the Valhalla2 since it doesn't seem to respond to tube rolling as much as other tube amps that I've tried and I'd say its a bit on the lean/dry sounding to me, not my preference.



Thank you for feedback.  Ya after doing more reading last night i think taking valhala off my list.  I'll check out the project ember.


----------



## DavidA

raf1919 said:


> Thank you for feedback.  Ya after doing more reading last night i think taking valhala off my list.  I'll check out the project ember.


Good luck with your "quest" and be warned that tube rolling can get addictive very quickly


----------



## raf1919

DavidA said:


> Good luck with your "quest" and be warned that tube rolling can get addictive very quickly



Haha thats why I want in.. tired of seeing you guys have all the fun.


----------



## ScareDe2 (Apr 8, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> I have a Lyr 2 on the way with an assortment of tubes.  Anyone have experience with any of the following from my stable of headphones with the Lyr 2?
> 
> Oppo PM-3
> Focal Elear
> ...



I suggest you use the search engine of this thread to find more answers. As for me, I can say the Lyr 2 is an amp that works with many headphones. From my personal experience: I prefer the DT770 250omhs with the Magni or the Chord Mojo. Not sure if I can explain why. I would say the The DT770 is neutral but more on the sterile/clinical side of neutrality. The Mojo adds a nice warmth to it, and so does the Magni. The result sounds more natural. If that makes sens. Tube rolling the Lyr 2 do not get rid of the clinical/sterile aspect of the DT770. But tube rolling can improve clarity, 3 dimensionality, details, soundstage, impact, but will not change the frequency curve much. My opinion.

The AKG K812 is also a neutral but clinical sounding HP, but I prefer it with the Lyr 2, because it needs an higher amp to show its technical superiority (soundstage, separation, details).

And surprisingly, the Sony MDRV6 that I just received works very good with the Lyr 2. I use high output and I keep the volume at 9 o'clock. I am not sure about the 7506 but the V6 is very neutral and uncolored. Especially the midrange - if you look at the harman target response the V6 follows it very accurately. And it sounds like it. I believe the Lyr 2 benefits from being matched with a neutral and natural sounding HP, perhaps because it IS a very neutral and natural sounding amp?


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## gardibolt

ScareDe2 said:


> I suggest you use the search engine of this thread to find more answers. As for me, I can say the Lyr 2 is an amp that works with many headphones. From my personal experience: I prefer the DT770 250omhs with the Magni or the Chord Mojo. Not sure if I can explain why. I would say the The DT770 is neutral but more on the sterile/clinical side of neutrality. The Mojo adds a nice warmth to it, and so does the Magni. The result sounds more natural. If that makes sens. Tube rolling the Lyr 2 do not get rid of the clinical/sterile aspect of the DT770. But tube rolling can improve clarity, 3 dimensionality, details, soundstage, impact, but will not change the frequency curve much. My opinion.
> 
> The AKG K812 is also a neutral but clinical sounding HP, but I prefer it with the Lyr 2, because it needs an higher amp to show its technical superiority (soundstage, separation, details).
> 
> And surprisingly, the Sony MDRV6 that I just received works very good with the Lyr 2. I use high output and I keep the volume at 9 o'clock. I am not sure about the 7506 but the V6 is very neutral and uncolored. Especially the midrange - if you look at the harman target response the V6 follows it very accurately. And it sounds like it. I believe the Lyr 2 benefits from being matched with a neutral and natural sounding HP, perhaps because it IS a very neutral and natural sounding amp?



I bought the Lyr 2 and really love it with the Elear and HE-560 as well as as a preamp for the Koss ESP-950.  I must have gotten one of the very last ones sold, because barely was my 15-day return period up than the Lyr3 came out and the 2 vanished from the Schiit website.  

RIP, Lyr 2.


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## ScareDe2

I had the HE560. That is more an audiophile than a studio or reference headphone. More on the colored side of neutrality. But I think I prefered it to the LCD2.2 that sounded way too recessed in the treble region. Also, there was a weird punch in the bass with the Audeze, like if the tightness and speed were exagerated. And the fast decay of planars make the music sounded like if robots are playing the music instead of humans. That is just my impression of course. I am not a fan of planar headphones but I agree that they have super rich midrange, especially the LCD2.2.


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## ZMG885

Just picked up a used Lyr 2 that came with Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 tubes.  Not sure about the tubes relative to stock, but the amp coaxed my DT-1770s into a whole new level of performance (versus being driven with my Magni 3).   My Symphones V8 build has also scaled up well with the Lyr 2.


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## zachgraz

Hi folks, I am looking for a new amp for my Hifiman HE1000 V2. I could either get the Lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2 used but both in excellent condition. I prefer a spacious and smooth sound and soundwise it can be a bit warm and tubey - I quite like tubish softness up to a certain degree.

Question: Would the Valhalla 2 power my headphones sufficiently ? The Hifiman HE1000 has an impedance of 35 Ohms and a sensitivity of 90db/mW. Schiit says the Valhalla 2 will power low impedance headphones without any problem but some reports suggest that the Valhalla sounds best with high impedance phones. I have read the Valhalla 2 sounds more laid back than the Lyr 2, that's why I am considering it.
Any ideas ?


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## ScareDe2 (Jul 24, 2018)

I have a Lyr 2 and never felt the need to sidegrade to another amplifier, but I was curious about the Liquid Carbon. They now have a massdrop edition. I don't know if it has a spacious sound but it is said to be warm. I will have to try it someday.

The Lyr 2 is very neutral with LISST tubes. And with most tubes I have tried especially the russians reflektor it stays very neutral.


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## ZMG885

zachgraz said:


> Hi folks, I am looking for a new amp for my Hifiman HE1000 V2. I could either get the Lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2 used but both in excellent condition. I prefer a spacious and smooth sound and soundwise it can be a bit warm and tubey - I quite like tubish softness up to a certain degree.
> 
> Question: Would the Valhalla 2 power my headphones sufficiently ? The Hifiman HE1000 has an impedance of 35 Ohms and a sensitivity of 90db/mW. Schiit says the Valhalla 2 will power low impedance headphones without any problem but some reports suggest that the Valhalla sounds best with high impedance phones. I have read the Valhalla 2 sounds more laid back than the Lyr 2, that's why I am considering it.
> Any ideas ?



My vote would be the Lyr 2 over the Valhalla 2, as the Lyr 2 can push a lot of power out at 35 ohms, and the Valhalla would be much weaker.   At a 90db sensitivity, you need a decent amount of power, the Lyr 2 puts out 6 watts/ch at 32 ohms vs Valhalla 2's 0.18 watt/ch @ 50 ohms.   Having the 300 ohm Beyer Dt 1770s, I was interested in the the Valhalla 2, so I also tried it with my Grado RS2e (32 ohms and 98db sensitivity) and had the volume cranked to about 1 to 2 o'clock for a decent listening level.  It was smoother, more laid back over my Magni 3, but I held off as it seem to run out of room on my Symphones V8 Build (they are probably somewhere between the RS2e and the HE1000 in power requirements).   Recently, I bought a used Lyr 2 and it drives my Grado RS2e, Symphone V8 build and DT 1770 very well.   My Lyr 2, which came with upgraded NOS tubes is smooth, but also very transparent and detailed.   You can scan the tube rolling threads, but the kind of tube can nudge the character of the amp into more tube warmth if that's what your going for.


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## DavidA

zachgraz said:


> Hi folks, I am looking for a new amp for my Hifiman HE1000 V2. I could either get the Lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2 used but both in excellent condition. I prefer a spacious and smooth sound and soundwise it can be a bit warm and tubey - I quite like tubish softness up to a certain degree.
> 
> Question: Would the Valhalla 2 power my headphones sufficiently ? The Hifiman HE1000 has an impedance of 35 Ohms and a sensitivity of 90db/mW. Schiit says the Valhalla 2 will power low impedance headphones without any problem but some reports suggest that the Valhalla sounds best with high impedance phones. I have read the Valhalla 2 sounds more laid back than the Lyr 2, that's why I am considering it.
> Any ideas ?



Tried a friend's Valhalla2 a few times and found it to be a bit on the dry side (thin at times also) with the headphones I have/had at the time (HD800, HD700, HD650, T1 gen1, and a few others).  Rolling tubes didn't seem to have much effect on the sound unlike many other tube amps.  Really like my Lyr2 over the Valhalla2 and even my friend sold her Valhalla2 but got a Elise which is even better than the Lyr2 but rolling tubes gets a bit more pricy, also and I'm not sure the Elise (OTL) would be a good match for the HE1Kv2 since its output impedance is a bit higher due to being an OTL design.  I haven't heard a HE1K v2 but with the HE1K v1 I liked it paired with a V281, G109 and HA-501 (all SS but neutral or slightly warm amps) over tube amps like Liquid Glass, Icon HP-8mk2, and Mjolnir2, but this is just my preferences since all of these amps are quite good but with tubes the HE1K became just a bit too warm for me.


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## zachgraz

Thank you guys for the input ! So many options... I forgot to say that I already have my favourite E88CC tubes that I intend to use so it would have to be amps that support these tubes.
Are there any hybrid amps out there similar to Lyr 2 that I should consider ? I did already spend some time with the Lyr 2 and I liked the sound it produced with my top tubes (some I had to try with just one channel as I have many single tubes, I will get matched pairs later). 
One thing that bothered me was the heat it produces. It is a hybrid amp but it gets really hot. The tubes themselves got very hot. I think they should have built it with a fan inside. 
What circuit is used to produce so much heat - a normal Class A amp does not get this hot.
If I decide to go for the Lyr 2 I will attach a small fan on the outside for sure and I will place the tubes "above" the case using 2x2 socket savers.


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## koover

zachgraz said:


> Thank you guys for the input ! So many options... I forgot to say that I already have my favourite E88CC tubes that I intend to use so it would have to be amps that support these tubes.
> Are there any hybrid amps out there similar to Lyr 2 that I should consider ? I did already spend some time with the Lyr 2 and I liked the sound it produced with my top tubes (some I had to try with just one channel as I have many single tubes, I will get matched pairs later).
> One thing that bothered me was the heat it produces. It is a hybrid amp but it gets really hot. The tubes themselves got very hot. I think they should have built it with a fan inside.
> What circuit is used to produce so much heat - a normal Class A amp does not get this hot.
> If I decide to go for the Lyr 2 I will attach a small fan on the outside for sure and I will place the tubes "above" the case using 2x2 socket savers.


If your budget allows, a Schiit Mjolnir 2 is a step up from the LYR2. It has more of a tube sound per day versus the LYR2 which is what I upgraded from. Loved the LYR2 a lot but love the MJ2 much more. Same tubes too!


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## zachgraz

koover said:


> If your budget allows, a Schiit Mjolnir 2 is a step up from the LYR2. It has more of a tube sound per day versus the LYR2 which is what I upgraded from. Loved the LYR2 a lot but love the MJ2 much more. Same tubes too!


Yes I can stretch my budget. If you use the same tubes, what are the main differences in sound between the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 ?


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## koover

zachgraz said:


> Yes I can stretch my budget. If you use the same tubes, what are the main differences in sound between the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 ?


It's been a while since I had the LYR 2 but the biggest upgrade is being able to go full balanced where LYR 2 is strictly SE, which is huge. This alone makes it worth the upgrade . It scales up so much better then the LYR 2. It has blacker background/more quite, more dynamic, as powerful as it gets and can drive even the hardest and most finicky headphones and even IEM's. It's definitely more musical to my ears as it's smoother and not as congested as the LYR 2. It just has more of a tube sound versus more of a "component/digital" sound is the best way I can put it. It's just warm, not as forward and more organic. Paired with the Gumby Gen 5 is just sublime. Believe me, the LYR 2 is one hellava amp and I loved it. But once I got the MJ2 paired with the Gumby, there was no comparison to me.


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## zachgraz

koover said:


> It's been a while since I had the LYR 2 but the biggest upgrade is being able to go full balanced where LYR 2 is strictly SE, which is huge. This alone makes it worth the upgrade . It scales up so much better then the LYR 2. It has blacker background/more quite, more dynamic, as powerful as it gets and can drive even the hardest and most finicky headphones and even IEM's. It's definitely more musical to my ears as it's smoother and not as congested as the LYR 2. It just has more of a tube sound versus more of a "component/digital" sound is the best way I can put it. It's just warm, not as forward and more organic. Paired with the Gumby Gen 5 is just sublime. Believe me, the LYR 2 is one hellava amp and I loved it. But once I got the MJ2 paired with the Gumby, there was no comparison to me.


Thank you for the explanation. Very useful information. Does the MJ2 get as hot as the Lyr 2 ?


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## koover

zachgraz said:


> Thank you for the explanation. Very useful information. Does the MJ2 get as hot as the Lyr 2 ?


Yes it does.


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## ScareDe2 (Jul 26, 2018)

I would add that the sweet spot for me with the Lyr 2 is at about 1-2 oclock on high output. Of course I need to lower the foobar volume to the minimum, I keep my windows sound to the maximum. I am using the HD6xx at the moment.


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## thesebastian (Jul 30, 2018)

DavidA said:


> @thesebastian
> 
> , since you are in Europe you might want to see about building a Nhoord or Ypsilon (both drivers made in Europe), its like a Grado clone but they have a much better balanced FR over a Grado.  They are not difficult to build and they seem to be easy to sell if you don't like the sound.  This is a picture of the last one I built using a Nhoord Red V2 driver:
> 
> These are about the best for rock/classic rock, and they are easy to drive so you can use them with a DAP or phone and they will still sound quite good.  Be aware that its not the cheapest to build, the parts for the one above is $328 and for me it takes about 1.5 months to get all the parts to Hawaii.  You can also look in my profile to see more picture of others that I've built.



Hi DavidA,

After so much time with the AKG K701 and the Lyr 2, I'm ready to take the step and (try to build) some Headphones for classic Rock music (and some Metal as well).

So far I started with this:
http://www.nhoord.com/explore/2016/8/26/how-to-build-your-own-headphones

If I wanted to have the Over the ear option (I think it's "Grado G-cush"?), how cheap can it cost me to build the phones? (In Europe).

I couldn't find videos or something to help the "DIY" thing, if you know about some, appreciate them.

Also, are these drivers recommended for the Lyr 2? Or it's better to get something more difficult to drive (since the Lyr 2 seems to have a lot power).


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## Mystic Traveller

Just wanted to revive the thread a bit. 
Does someone use "tube savers" to protect the stock sockets or they are robust enough to live
 through infrequent tube changes?


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## RastaDolphin (Feb 24, 2019)

Ive done a lot of swapping out tubes on mine (that I got used) and the socket seem as tight as ever. I did try a cheap socket saver at one point fearing damage but tossed them because the sound quality took a significant hit. I found a bit of a hack for pulling the tubes out, BTW. A wide rubber band wrapped around the tube makes for a better grip. Saved me from slicing my fingers open over and over on those razor sharp corners of the frame.


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## Mystic Traveller

RastaDolphin said:


> the socket seem as tight as ever


Thank you, mate, that's what I wanted to hear! You calmed me down. Cheers!


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## RastaDolphin

Mystic Traveller said:


> Thank you, mate, that's what I wanted to hear! You calmed me down. Cheers!


Yeah. After my own spiral of nervousness about it and going deep into forums I came to a realization/resolution that tubes and quality tube amps like Schiit's are pretty tough pieces of gear.


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## Mystic Traveller (Feb 25, 2019)

RastaDolphin said:


> Schiit's are pretty tough pieces of gear.


That's good! 
I was also wondering (I am not a tech guy)
if 2 tubes in the 1st cascade - are they working one per a channel?
I.e. in parallel - one tube for left, another for right?
And does the Lyr 2 schematics has a sort of anode current aligning
between 2 tubes?
So that if I have 2 tubes of the same type and model but due to different mnfg years for example
they have a bit different anode current parameters each I nevertheless can use them?

UPD: I've asked Schiit support and they responded:
_Yes, the tubes on the Lyr 2 are in parallel (one per channel). You can use tubes of the same type but we recommend having them matched to at least 2% to avoid channel imbalance. _
_The Lyr 2 does not have auto current alignment. Make sure to use 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6N23P, and 6BZ7 tube types and that they are matched. _


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## RastaDolphin

Ah cool! That's good info. I certainly had no idea.


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## coletrain104

FWIW I use tube socket protectors since removing and swapping tubes with the given height makes tube removal a real chore, with the socket savers they stick out far enough to grasp and pull firmly. I would recommend getting some anyways, I can't image the SQ would take a hit, as they are just conductors that you're attaching pins to, feeding the same tube from the same circuit.


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## RastaDolphin

coletrain104 said:


> FWIW I use tube socket protectors since removing and swapping tubes with the given height makes tube removal a real chore, with the socket savers they stick out far enough to grasp and pull firmly. I would recommend getting some anyways, I can't image the SQ would take a hit, as they are just conductors that you're attaching pins to, feeding the same tube from the same circuit.


The ones I tried were poor conductors and sounded as such. Which savers are you using?


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## fotomeow

ScareDe2 said:


> I have a Lyr 2 and never felt the need to sidegrade to another amplifier, but I was curious about the Liquid Carbon. They now have a massdrop edition. I don't know if it has a spacious sound but it is said to be warm. I will have to try it someday.
> 
> The Lyr 2 is very neutral with LISST tubes. And with most tubes I have tried especially the russians reflektor it stays very neutral.



I listened to the Liquid Carbon - its first iteration anyway some years back with a variety of headphones. 
IMO it was pretty neutral and accurate but a full sound. I remember others saying how "warm" it was. Thats BS to me. 
It was not a warm sound, just a bigger more powerful sound. 

But perhaps later updates were made to the Carbon to make it warmer or a different SQ. 
IMO, there is no real comparison b/w the Carbon and Lyr in terms of warmth.


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## Ken G

fotomeow said:


> I listened to the Liquid Carbon - its first iteration anyway some years back with a variety of headphones.
> IMO it was pretty neutral and accurate but a full sound. I remember others saying how "warm" it was. Thats BS to me.
> It was not a warm sound, just a bigger more powerful sound.
> 
> ...



I own both the Lyr 2 and the Massdrop edition of the Carbon. IMO the Carbon is MAYBE a touch warmer than neutral but I don't find it overly so. I haven't closely analyzed the two since I use them in different rooms but I don't think one is noticeably warmer than the other. They are both very good for the power they deliver (and cost) but I probably prefer the Lyr 2 since I can slightly alter the sound with tubes.


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## coletrain104

RastaDolphin said:


> The ones I tried were poor conductors and sounded as such. Which savers are you using?


I just used generic black bakelite 9-pin sockets, can be bought online. If you're concerned about SQ you could also remove your tubes, look at the part Schiit uses on the PCB, and get those


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## DavidA

Mystic Traveller said:


> Just wanted to revive the thread a bit.
> Does someone use "tube savers" to protect the stock sockets or they are robust enough to live
> through infrequent tube changes?


I've been using the ones from Tube Monger, well made and haven't had any issues with them over the past 5 years


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