# iPods and External DACs



## Nicolas L

Once again, the newbie has a question. Recently, I've been thinking about getting a DAC to pair with my iPod, but I've read all over on Head-Fi that external DACs (e.g. FiiO E07K/E17) will only work as an amp when paired. Is this just a misconception, or do DACs only work with a *specific* range of iPods? Thanks for the help in advance.


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## DrSheep

nicolas l said:


> Once again, the newbie has a question. Recently, I've been thinking about getting a DAC to pair with my iPod, but I've read all over on Head-Fi that external DACs (e.g. FiiO E07K/E17) will only work as an amp when paired. Is this just a misconception, or do DACs only work with a *specific* range of iPods? Thanks for the help in advance.


 
 No, as long as it is MFi by Apple it will work for all of them.  For example, my VentureCraft Sound Droid Typhoon only listed to support recent iPod/iPhones, but my 1st gen iPod Touch running iOS 3.1.2 still works fine with it.  There maybe minor issues like charging and what not here and there if it is not officially supported, but I have not heard a MFi DAC that will not work with an iPod/iPhone at all when it is not supported.
  
 Here is a list of MFi DAC/AMP for your consideration above FiiO's:
 Apogee ONE ($250, more for Mac and recording, but also serves as a DAC/AMP for iOS)
 Sony PHA-1 ($350), PHA-2 (pending)
 VentureCraft Go-DAP DD Socket 1 (DAC only, $328-426, ~$150 w/minor case defects)
 VentureCraft Sound Droid Typhoon ($523)
 V-MODA VERZA ($600)
 Fostex HP-P1 ($650)
 ADL X1 ($650)
 CypherLabs AlgoRhythm Solo -R or -dB (DAC only, $500/$700)
 CEntrance HiFi-M8 and varient ($700)
 VentureCraft Go-DAP TT ($823)
 CypherLabs Theorem 720 ($900)


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## Nicolas L

Oh my, of course their quality is higher, as well as their price >< What's with the VentureCraft DD Socket One? Defects? That I might be interested in.


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





nicolas l said:


> Oh my, of course their quality is higher, as well as their price >< What's with the VentureCraft DD Socket One? Defects? That I might be interested in.


 
  It posted about that in the VC DDS1 trend, but basically is just some very minor surface dings that didn't passed QC that VC sell pretty much at cost on their Japan Rakuten webshop.  It gives a "Ship to Japan Only" warning but that's not true, as VC ships international via EMS for about 2500 yen to the US.


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## Mooses9

The algorhythm solo original is a excellent dac to pair with the ipod also. The new solos are using akm chips simular to the hpp1. Where as the older solos use wolfson dac imo its a better dac more aggressive sound then the akm. The only differences are the extra bells and whistles the new solos have but again imo if you are going single ended and not balanced I dont see the benifit and again I still like the wolfson dac chip


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## voteforpedro

Can the new ALO International be added to the list? I am also trying to navigate the waters around which iPhone/iPad/iOS version will work with what DAC/Amp and with what cable. Confusing, but kind of fun to do all of the research as well.
   
  I have been able to figure out over the last 24 hours is that iPads and jailbroken iPods or iPhones all work, but not 'normal' iPhones or iPods. Seems to be only 30-pin models that work? Still unsure.


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## DrSheep

What on earth are you talking about? All MFI DAC/AMP works with any iDevice out of the box with 30 pin or Lightning cable.


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## voteforpedro

..l am not sure that was the response I was anticipating, especially the tone. Ok, let's reset the conversation.
   
  From everything I have been reading only certain DACs work with iPhones if the external DAC is desired. And from what I read most external DACs are bypassed and only the amp section is used.


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





voteforpedro said:


> ..l am not sure that was the response I was anticipating, especially the tone. Ok, let's reset the conversation.
> 
> From everything I have been reading only certain DACs work with iPhones if the external DAC is desired. And from what I read most external DACs are bypassed and only the amp section is used.


 
  Only if you use 30 pin to analog LOD, all MFI DAC/AMP I listed, including the ALO you mentioned, take digital input from 30 pin to USB, so it will uses both the external DAC and AMP.


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## voteforpedro

Gotcha. Thanks.


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## LFC_SL

Quote: 





voteforpedro said:


> Can the new ALO International be added to the list?


 
   
  I do not believe the International is 'new' new or certified MFI, but if others are getting results with cck and you are relying upon that...
   
  Also the ADL X1 is out in some places: http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/adl-x1-usb-dac-and-headphone-amp.html (although I am concerned by reports of hiss if you are an IEM user)


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## DrSheep

lfc_sl said:


> I do not believe the International is 'new' new or certified MFI, but if others are getting results with cck and you are relying upon that...
> 
> Also the ADL X1 is out in some places: http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/adl-x1-usb-dac-and-headphone-amp.html (although I am concerned by reports of hiss if you are an IEM user)




Nice, and I think the X1 will give the VC SDT some competition.


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## voteforpedro

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> ...but if others are getting results with cck and you are relying upon that...


 
  Sorry for my ignorance. What does cck mean?


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## voteforpedro

...and this is where I keep getting confused. If something isn't certified by Apple will the DAC portion still work? Hence my original question about the ALO and whether it will work with iPods, iPhones, etc etc.
   
  It's tough to jump into this world and have to figure out things piecemeal.


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## DrSheep

No, non-MFI, like FiiO's, can only take analog line out from an iPod and it will still uses the internal DAC. The whole point of MFI is to take digital output from iPod and decode it with their own external DAC.


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## DrSheep

Added the new Cypher Labs Theorem to the list.


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## 282432

Sub'd


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## 282432

voteforpedro said:


> Sorry for my ignorance. What does cck mean?



Camera connection kit. The ones they use with iPads.


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





tjcheong said:


> Camera connection kit. The ones they use with iPads.


 
  Silly question: does it work for regular iPod/iPhones?


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## Quinto

I use a wadia170i Ipod dock for extracting digital into to my Audio-gd 19 dsp DAC, which works fine..
   
  From what I understood not many ipod docks extract digital info..


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## 282432

drsheep said:


> Silly question: does it work for regular iPod/iPhones?



If I remember correctly, they don't


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





quinto said:


> I use a wadia170i Ipod dock for extracting digital into to my Audio-gd 19 dsp DAC, which works fine..
> 
> From what I understood not many ipod docks extract digital info..


 
  Yes, the iTransport is the very first MFI iPod DAC, but now there are more and more development, especially portable DAC, that is Apple MFI.
  Quote: 





tjcheong said:


> If I remember correctly, they don't


 
  Figures, that will only be too easy for us wouldn't it.


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## Nicolas L

*sigh* Why does Hong Kong Apple Store have such mediocre customer service, made me ditch my plan of getting a Classic as a DAP. 
   
  Any thoughts of hooking an amp to the new iBasso DX50?


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





nicolas l said:


> *sigh* Why does Hong Kong Apple Store have such mediocre customer service, made me ditch my plan of getting a Classic as a DAP.
> 
> Any thoughts of hooking an amp to the new iBasso DX50?


 
  The DX50 has no optical out, only analog and coaxial.  Any analog amp should do a decent job, and the Headamp Pico Slim, Headstage Arrow, or even the JDS Labs C5 should do a decent job.


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## Quinto

The wadia is a dock, not a dac..


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## DrSheep

Sorry, I meant a DD, but it is the first MFI DD never the less.


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## TonyVier

Hi, 

Are there any limits in the MFI output? 

The Sony PHA 1 just accepts 24bits 48khz not more from an iPod, while it can accept higher values from a PC usb input... 

? 

Thanks for listening...


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## DrSheep

That's normal.  iPads can do 24/96 I think but iPod/iPhones are only 16/48 and that's Apple's fault.


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## TonyVier

So it has no use to create 24bits/48khz alacs from hires files for iPod/PHA I playback? 16bits/48 will do just as well? 

(just did some 24bits/96khz to 24/48khz conversions and noticed extra hiss in them when played on ipod touch)


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## DrSheep

tonyvier said:


> So it has no use to create 24bits/48khz alacs from hires files for iPod/PHA I playback? 16bits/44.1 will do just as well?
> 
> (just did some 24bits/96khz to 24/48khz conversions and noticed extra hiss in them when played on ipod touch)


 
  
 No, it will just be down sampled from the iPod.


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## TonyVier

Ok DrSheep, now I know what to use for my flac to m4a conversions, thanks. 16/48 it will be.


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## DrSheep

tonyvier said:


> Ok DrSheep, now I know what to use for my flac to m4a conversions, thanks. 16/48 it will be.


 
  
 Why convert?  Just get the FLAC player and let it do the work, unless you need to save space.


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## TonyVier

Because I will use an iPod classic with a PHA-1 in the future, and can't install a flac player there I guess. I have it rockboxed, but rockbox doesn't talk with the PHA-1, afaik. So need to go back to original fw.


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## ExpatinJapan

tonyvier said:


> Because I will use an iPod classic with a PHA-1 in the future, and can't install a flac player there I guess. I have it rockboxed, but rockbox doesn't talk with the PHA-1, afaik. So need to go back to original fw.


if you have an ipod touch or iphone there are many flac playing apps. I use flacplayer app.


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## TonyVier

Ok, thanks... 

But if I understand correctly the iPod will resample anything above 48khz/16bit to 48khz/16bit right?

So it has no use, imho, to feed flac players anything above that, so my guess is that i might as well resample any flacs that have higher frequencies and bit rates to appropriate alacs.

While i am at it anyway. 

So i can fill my classic (with future PHA-1) and touch (with E01 or iBasso D-0) with the same files. 

I guess....... 



expatinjapan said:


> if you have an ipod touch or iphone there are many flac playing apps. I use flacplayer app.


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## DrSheep

Updated the list.


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## 329161

Sorry I couldn't find a clear answer from this thread....
  
 Does the Sony PHA work as an external DAC/AMP for the iPod Classic?


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## DrSheep

Yes.


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## 329161

drsheep said:


> Yes.


 

 Cool, thanks.
  
 The PHA 1 has come down in price so I might take the plunge.


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## 329161

drsheep said:


> What on earth are you talking about? All MFI DAC/AMP works with any iDevice out of the box with 30 pin or Lightning cable.


 

 Does this include the ipod Classic? I ask because it's not IOS.
  
 Also, is this Apogee interface compatible with the Classic?
  
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/one-mac.php
  
 Sorry to keep asking, but there aren't many choices out there, and I don't want to make a mistake.
  
 Thanks.


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## DrSheep

That I have no idea but classic should work.


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## Happytalk

Well. I got my hands on a Fostex HP-P1 and i am looking for a short cable. Any recommendations would help.


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## Mooses9

Alo audio makes one.


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## nephilim32

happytalk said:


> Well. I got my hands on a Fostex HP-P1 and i am looking for a short cable. Any recommendations would help.




Pretty great right here. 
http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=349&page=6


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