# Audio Engine A5+



## phillyd

I've had these speakers for a few months and I absolutely love them. The sound quality blows my old speakers (Klipsch Promedia 2.1) out of the water. The sound is so much fuller.

Anybody use these? Opinions? Mods? Tweaks?

I'm considering getting a pair of crossover filters at 200Hz for use with the subwoofer.

Since they're studio monitors, they are highly directional. Anyone know of any similar price/performance speakers that aren't as dependent on listening location?


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## Bobby S

Near field monitors in general have pretty tight sweet spots. That's an inherent trait.
 The size of the sweet spot depends on the design of the speaker and especially the tweeter technology used.
 As a rule of thumb horn-loaded tweeters (as your A5 has) are the most directional of all, as the tweeter response is guided or focused by a horn shaped baffle. The deeper the horn, the tighter the focus.
 A lot of monitors employ such a scheme to optimize the on-axis tweeter response.
 At the other end of the spectrum, ribbon or AMT tweeters offer better dispersion and a broader sweet spot.
 But this none of this is set in stone. It always depends on the actual speaker design, choice of drivers, etc.
  
 Concerning your issue with the A5's, as you can see the tweeters are horn loaded, and quite recessed into the baffle.
 That is what makes them more directional than most and have a relatively narrow sweet spot.
 Other similarly priced minimonitors , such as KRK g6 or ESI 05 experience, have a broader sweet spot than the A5 does, but it's not large by any means.
 Probably the broadest sweet spot I've heard were from Adam Audio monitors (they use AMT tweeters).
 So you might want to take a look at their most affordable model, the F5.
  
 A footnote about speaker placement:
 The most effective way to reduce directionality is by increasing the distance between the speakers and your ears.
 The closer they are to you, the more directional they get and vice versa.


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## phillyd

bobby s said:


> Near field monitors in general have pretty tight sweet spots. That's an inherent trait.
> The size of the sweet spot depends on the design of the speaker and especially the tweeter technology used.
> As a rule of thumb horn-loaded tweeters (as your A5 has) are the most directional of all, as the tweeter response is guided or focused by a horn shaped baffle. The deeper the horn, the tighter the focus.
> A lot of monitors employ such a scheme to optimize the on-axis tweeter response.
> ...




Thanks for the tips! I'll be getting stands for them at some point so their placement will be exactly how I want them. I know people typically recommend an equilateral triangle spread but I'll experiment with an isosceles triangle, with the longest leg being between the speakers.

I really do love the sound I get in that sweet spot. Thanks for the explanation?


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## cel4145

phillyd said:


> I'm considering getting a pair of crossover filters at 200Hz for use with the subwoofer.[/quote
> 
> Why would you crossover a pair of speakers at 200hz with a sub unless you had no choice? That's going to localize much of your midbass to the sub.


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## phillyd

Because I listen to a lot of rap and electronic music. It wouldn't bother me having much of the midbass taken care of by the sub.


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## cel4145

phillyd said:


> Because I listen to a lot of rap and electronic music. It wouldn't bother me having much of the midbass taken care of by the sub.




An 80 or 100hz crossover would work well for shifting some of the midbass to the sub. At least, that's what most bass enthusiasts I know use. 

What kind of subwoofer are you getting?


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## phillyd

I'm looking into a Lava LSP12. At some point I'll drop $400+ on a better sub but for now I'm severely lacking in money.


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## cel4145

phillyd said:


> I'm looking into a Lava LSP12. At some point I'll drop $400+ on a better sub but for now I'm severely lacking in money.




Can you get those still? I know that Lava shut down sales on their website. They are being carried as TruAudio subs now.


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## phillyd

Shoot. I'm mad I missed their run. They were like $150. I guess I'll keep looking. After more research, 120Hz seems like a more reasonable crossover.


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## cel4145

Look into the Dayton SUB-1200 and SUB-1500. And check out the budget subwoofer discussion thread over at AVS.

Be sure to find a sub that has been measured not to start rolling off on the top end below 120hz.


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## cel4145

Here's an example. The Lava sub would not be a good choice for 120hz, or especially not 200hz. 



It peaks in native frequency response at 50hz. So, depending on the influence of room acoustics, it would have a huge lower midbass hump.


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## phillyd

cel4145 said:


> Look into the Dayton SUB-1200 and SUB-1500. And check out the budget subwoofer discussion thread over at AVS.
> 
> Be sure to find a sub that has been measured not to start rolling off on the top end below 120hz.






cel4145 said:


> Here's an example. The Lava sub would not be a good choice for 120hz, or especially not 200hz.
> 
> 
> 
> It peaks in native frequency response at 50hz. So, depending on the influence of room acoustics, it would have a huge lower midbass hump.




I'm not all that concerned with response balance with this sub. I'm going to be missing much of the low-end because these speakers roll off under 120Hz. If I have a midbass hump, it wont be that big of a deal IMO. I'll make sure everything is tuned better when I get a better sub later on.

The sub might roll off between 60-120Hz but the speakers roll off even more.


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## cel4145

phillyd said:


> The sub might roll off between 60-120Hz but the speakers roll off even more.




I always assumed that they were similar in frequency response to the original A5s, but certainly not worse. The A5s measured quite respectable in extension for a speaker with a driver that size: "The –3-dB point is at 57 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 52 Hz."


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## phillyd

I just need to find an adjustable EQ for cheap and try out different settings for myself.


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## revolutionz

I haven't started looking for a external EQ yet, I have just been using the software one on foobar.  So far, at least for music played through foobar, it works well.  I have a REL T-Zero, with the crossover on the sub set at 150Hz, and basically a slope down on the software EQ from 150Hz down.  I would like to do this at some point with an external EQ so it encompasses all I play through the computer, not just foobar.  Anyone tried an external EQ setup like that?


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## Shaffer

I have A5+ in my office system run in conjunction with a Klipsch blahblah-12 subwoofer. The x-over point for the sub is @ 65Hz (12dB/octave). The A5+ are run full-range. The "sub" you're using is essentially a woofer. 150Hz is relatively high and can be localized, meaning you know where the sub is. You want a sub, buy one, but make sure it's an actual subwoofer. FWIW, I have no EQ in any of my systems. No need. Good luck.


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## phillyd

Yeah well that was terribly unclear. The A5+'s NEED to have a low pass filter out because the lack of depth ruins bass hits. A subwoofer can go higher than 65Hz and still be a sub.


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## Shaffer

phillyd said:


> Yeah well that was terribly unclear. *The A5+'s NEED to have a low pass filter out because the lack of depth ruins bass hits*.




I'm sorry; I don't know understand the relevance. 



> A subwoofer can go higher than 65Hz and still be a sub.




That was hardly the point, nor did anyone assert such a thing. I mentioned the x-over point I use to give you a point of reference as to how low the A5+ can go in a room and as to where a good blend can occur. Your woofer doesn't go low enough to be called a subwoofer and the x-over point you're considering will allow for localization. Lose-lose.

Edit: text


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## phillyd

The relevance? What?

What woofer are you saying I have? I haven't picked a woofer. How low does a sub need to be able to go? And what crossover point? I think you need to reread the whole thread.


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## revolutionz

At 150Hz, I definitely dont experience any localization with the sub. The A5+'s suffer from muddy sub-bass, which is why I trim them with EQ, just becuase they aren't designed for sub-bass.  The T-Zero that I use much more accurately reproduces sub-bass, and blends quite well with the A5+'s.  It is not a cheap computer subwoofer, it is quite a well designed sub, and it works perfectly as a sub for a desktop system.


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## Shaffer

phillyd said:


> The relevance? What?
> 
> What woofer are you saying I have? I haven't picked a woofer. How low does a sub need to be able to go? And what crossover point? I think you need to reread the whole thread.




My apologies; I confused you with the chap who owns a T-Zero. As for the rest, there are lots of resources on the 'net that explain basic audio. I don't have the time for a half hour of typing. Good luck.


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## phillyd

If the sub is powerful enough for the room, you won't experience localization at 200Hz.

Shaffer I understand audio quite well and what you were saying wasn't wrong it was just completely random. That's why I got confused


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## Shaffer

revolutionz said:


> At 150Hz, I definitely dont experience any localization with the sub.




Pretty much anything above ~80Hz can be localized. 



> The A5+'s suffer from muddy sub-bass, which is why I trim them with EQ, just becuase they aren't designed for sub-bass.  The T-Zero that I use much more accurately reproduces sub-bass, and blends quite well with the A5+'s.  It is not a cheap computer subwoofer, it is quite a well designed sub, and it works perfectly as a sub for a desktop system.




There's no question that the A5+ won't do low bass. Neither will your woofer, without a whole lot of distortion, again helping localization. As to the definition of "perfect," it's clear that we have totally different points of reference.


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## phillyd

I'll do blind tests at 80, 100, 120, 150 and 200Hz in my friend's HT. I've never been able to localize that sub...I don't even know where it is. Fairly certain its crossover is 120 or 150.


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## Shaffer

phillyd said:


> If the sub is powerful enough for the room, you won't experience localization at 200Hz.




This is new. Not to sound rude, did you juts make that up? I ask, because it's completely and utterly ridiculous. Just doesn't work that way no matter how much you wish it does. Take Leonard Cohen, for example. His vocals go way below 200Hz. Now consider how your ear localizes a specific human voice in a crowd. 



> Shaffer* I understand audio quite well* and what you were saying wasn't wrong it was just completely random. That's why I got confused




Yes, that's clearly the case.

Edit: text


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## cel4145

shaffer said:


> This is new. Not to sound rude, did you juts make that up? I ask, because it's completely and utterly ridiculous. Just doesn't work that way no matter how much you wish it does. Take Leonard Cohen, for example. His vocals go way below 200Hz. Now consider how your ear localizes a specific human voice in a crowd.




Agreed. Goes against my experience and what is commonly known about sub integration.


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## Shaffer

phillyd said:


> I'll do blind tests at 80, 100, 120, 150 and 200Hz in my friend's HT. I've never been able to localize that sub...I don't even know where it is. Fairly certain its crossover is 120 or 150.




As long as you're happy. I'm out.


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## smogger914

Ive been listening to headphones, DT 880's and IEM's shure 846's with either the Fiio 17 or the Cambridge Music DacMagic + ( dacmagic wins ). I just got the audioengine A5+ bookshelf speakers and running them through the fiio and it has blown my mind compared to the headphones. Closing your eyes you can point to where every instrument is being player on the stage in front. High's mid's, low's everything is there. My mind was and is still being blown. I am now a speaker person .


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## cel4145

smogger914 said:


> Ive been listening to headphones, DT 880's and IEM's shure 846's with either the Fiio 17 or the Cambridge Music DacMagic + ( dacmagic wins ). I just got the audioengine A5+ bookshelf speakers and running them through the fiio and it has blown my mind compared to the headphones. Closing your eyes you can point to where every instrument is being player on the stage in front. High's mid's, low's everything is there. My mind was and is still being blown. I am now a speaker person .




I'm happy for you 

But sad for your wallet. Next thing you know, you'll want $1000 speakers and a $600 sub


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## smogger914

Thats what I am scarred of... Is a sub really worth it? They seem to have plenty of bass.


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## cel4145

smogger914 said:


> Thats what I am scarred of... Is a sub really worth it? They seem to have plenty of bass.




Depends on what kind of music you listen to. Depends on how much money you spend on the sub. Depends on if you like to use them for gaming/movies, too.

The original A5 were rated similarly to the A5+ in low end frequency response (50Hz-22kHz ±1.5dB), but independent measurements showed them to already be -3db down at 57hz. If you like sub bass, a good sub is always the better tool for the job than a monitor with 5" drivers


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## Shaffer

FWIW, I use a 12" Klipsch sub with my A5+. Office system.


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## smogger914

I just found my old klipsch 8" sub from an iFi iPod Speaker System and hooked it up, it adds a lot of lower end depth that was definitely missing. The sub def makes a difference. I listen mostly to rock, reggae and rap. But ive been exploring jazz and classical just because of how good it sounds on these speakers. 
  
 And you mentioned crossover filters, should I consider those?


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## Shaffer

My sub is x'd-over at ~65Hz @ 12dB/octave, YMMV


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## smogger914

Sorry total noob, is that something i fit inline between the output of the amp to the sub?


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## 86omfg

nice read guys.
  
 i have heard a pair of KRK g6's with proper setup, spacing and angles to the listening head,
 was blown away by the sound stage and very impressed even with no sub, would have been poerfect with a sub added
  
 seems like klipsch subs are popular? i baught a klipsch 10" in sydney for my home speaker setup (wharfedale valdus 500 + matching center ,rears) and have been very happy with its preformance. not a very known brand to see in australia.
  
 i would like one day for a set of KRK g6's but worried using them a side by side the computer monitor it wont sound as good?


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## cel4145

smogger914 said:


> Sorry total noob, is that something i fit inline between the output of the amp to the sub?




Nope. 

Your sub should have a low pass filter (Does it?). Adjust the low pass filter to the low frequency roll off of your speakers (where they start to decrease in bass output).

If you want to use a sub with a different crossover, you would need electronics with separate line outs for the sub and speakers that managed the bass.


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## paulguru

Excuse me i'm new user but im interested to Audioengine A series.
  
 But before *i want to know if the soundstage of this A5+ as good as an Hi-Fi headphone like AKG Q701 or Philips Fidelio X2*.
 In some users reviews the Audioengine A5+ seem to have an EXCEPTIONAL and IMPRESSIVE soundstage, this is true ?
  
*And for games ? Specially for FPS games the bass of this A5+ is low enough to feel good the explosions ? ( not basshead vibration style but more than credible explosions ).*
  
  
  
 I hope you answer this post


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## cel4145

The soundstage will be different (completely in front of you), and how good the A5 soundstage will be will depend on placement and setup relative to the listening position. You can't just stick speakers anywhere and get good soundstage.


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## paulguru

cel4145 said:


> The soundstage will be different (completely in front of you), and how good the A5 soundstage will be will depend on placement and setup relative to the listening position. You can't just stick speakers anywhere and get good soundstage.


 
 My position will be so : http://www.tomshw.it/forum/attachments/schede-audio-altoparlanti-e-cuffie/140484d1419415412-altoparlanti-vs-cuffie-img_0230.jpg
  
 Speakers not inclined and straight and spaced maximus 60cm ( 60cm also from each single speaker and me, same distance. )


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## smogger914

Unfortunately it doesn't. Its the 8" Klipsch sub that comes with the ifi series ( super old ). I hooked it up using the line out from the speakers into the control dock. 
  
 Is it hard to build a low pass filter?


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## smogger914

But before *i want to know if the soundstage of this A5+ as good as an Hi-Fi headphone like AKG Q701 or Philips Fidelio X2*.
 In some users reviews the Audioengine A5+ seem to have an EXCEPTIONAL and IMPRESSIVE soundstage, this is true ?
  
 I cannot compare *AKG Q701 or Philips Fidelio X2,* but these have blown my DT 880's and Shure 845's out of the water. I have had a few other speaker systems and holy wow, a5+'s win hands down. 
  
*And for games ? Specially for FPS games the bass of this A5+ is low enough to feel good the explosions ? ( not basshead vibration style but more than credible explosions ).*
  
 Ya, they have very nice bass as is. They are definitely not basshead vibrations, they call it "true bass" on their site, ie, what they audio engineer wanted you to hear, and i will agree. You can definitely feel it, but it doesn't muddy anything up. I added a 8" klipsch sub and it really fills out the lower end that i didnt even notice was missing. Hope this helps.


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## smogger914

cel4145 said:


> The soundstage will be different (completely in front of you), and how good the A5 soundstage will be will depend on placement and setup relative to the listening position. You can't just stick speakers anywhere and get good soundstage.


 
 Ya, placement makes a huge difference. I spent a few hours moving them and my chair around to get the best position.


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## smogger914

86omfg said:


> nice read guys.
> 
> i have heard a pair of KRK g6's with proper setup, spacing and angles to the listening head,
> was blown away by the sound stage and very impressed even with no sub, would have been poerfect with a sub added
> ...


 
 You shouldn't place them side by side next to the monitor. Spread them out a bit, preferably in front so the monitor does block their sound.


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## cel4145

smogger914 said:


> Unfortunately it doesn't. Its the 8" Klipsch sub that comes with the ifi series ( super old ). I hooked it up using the line out from the speakers into the control dock.
> 
> Is it hard to build a low pass filter?




Well, that means that sub was designed to integrate with whatever speakers came with it, either with a natural roll off to match the speakers that came with it, or it's own built in low pass filter. 

I have no idea how to build low pass filters.


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## smogger914

cel4145 said:


> Well, that means that sub was designed to integrate with whatever speakers came with it, either with a natural roll off to match the speakers that came with it, or it's own built in low pass filter.
> 
> I have no idea how to build low pass filters.


 
 Ya thats what I figured. Google time . Will post if i figure it out.


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## smogger914

Actually, found the specs, the crossover frequency on the sub is 120Hz. The specs the a5+ is 50Hz-22kHz ±1.5dB so they are interfering? And I need a filter?


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## paulguru

smogger914 said:


> I cannot compare *AKG Q701 or Philips Fidelio X2,* but these have blown my DT 880's and Shure 845's out of the water. I have had a few other speaker systems and holy wow, a5+'s win hands down.


 
 i dont understand all the message ( sorry )
  
 but u are saying that A5+ have a much better soundstage than your Beyerdynamics DT880 ?
 if yes, can i know how do you placed the speakers please ?
  
 However the DT880 is not an open air headphone.


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## smogger914

paulguru said:


> i dont understand all the message ( sorry )
> 
> but u are saying that A5+ have a much better soundstage than your Beyerdynamics DT880 ?
> if yes, can i know how do you placed the speakers please ?
> ...


 
 It is an open air headphone. I have a 42" tv, the speakers are positioned 6 inches away and in front of the tv. I am sitting in a chair 7 feet away from the middle. Sounds great. It took a while to get it to sound good, had to move the speakers and chair around to make it work.


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## paulguru

DT880 is "*semi-open*" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
 - OK the soundstage of A5+ is good, but the *IMAGING *?  
 - And...... if the position of speakers is not so accurate the sound space can change a lot ?


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