# Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier - Impressions Thread



## XERO1 (May 17, 2020)

Here's what the current Drop version looks like:

------------------
https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
------------------

The Massdrop x THX AAA 789 is finally here and it's pretty incredible! 

If you're looking for an affordable ultra-neutral, _super-transparent_ amp with plenty of power, then the 789 should be at the top of your list.

Discuss!

------------------
_Edit: Massdrop has changed it's name to Drop, so this amp is now called the Drop x THX AAA 789, but since so many of these amps have been sold with the original Massdrop logo on them, I decided not to change the title of this thread._


----------



## mtoc

OP loves everything? take a look at Benchmark AHB2


----------



## XERO1

mtoc said:


> OP loves everything? take a look at Benchmark AHB2


Huh?


----------



## swmtnbiker

I was interested in this amp until I saw what the wait was going to be. The lead time for many of Massdrop's audiophile products is just waaaaaay too long IMO. I'm not willing to let them sit on my money for 8 months when there are plenty of other fish in the sea. Maybe I'll pick up one of these used next year if I'm still curious and can find one for sale. Meanwhile, onward and upward.


----------



## BLacklWf

Interesting spec.  The spec alone doesn't mean anything when it comes to a personal taste in audio.. nonetheless interesting spec.


----------



## BLacklWf (Mar 2, 2018)

The spec tend to indicate it's a balanced amp since the power doubles on the balanced out.  But, someone in Massdrop discussion mentioned 789 is 788 with a boosted power to match the output of 888.  According to the attached 788 is a stereo amp and 888 is a dual mono amp.  I'm not sure what a stereo amp means, but someone else in MD discussion mentioned 788 is not a balanced amp - rather merely has a balanced out jack.  I am wondering if 789 a true balanced amp or shall I wait until MD releases 888/889 next year?

Here is a link to 788 which was also introduced by the same OP.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-desktop-thx-amp-dac-24459-impressions-thread.860046/
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24459


----------



## Daemon Ursus

BLacklWf said:


> The spec tend to indicate it's a balanced amp since the power doubles on the balanced out.  But, someone in Massdrop discussion mentioned 789 is 788 with a boosted power to match the output of 888.  According to the attached 788 is a stereo amp and 888 is a dual mono amp.  I'm not sure what a stereo amp means, but someone else in MD discussion mentioned 788 is not a balanced amp - rather merely has a balanced out jack.  I am wondering if 789 a true balanced amp or shall I wait until MD releases 888/889 next year?
> 
> Here is a link to 788 which was also introduced by the same OP.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-desktop-thx-amp-dac-24459-impressions-thread.860046/
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24459



The 788 is single ended only, so amps like the upcoming Monoprice Dac/amp which use it but claim to be balanced are faking it. According to the engineer who designed the AAA tech and this amp, the 789 is a hybrid of the 788 and 888 which is actually balanced. Based on his replies throughout the discussion on the Massdrop comments, I would say if you want to get the AAA tech for headphones, this amp is the best option you are likely to see. The 888 is probably going to be mostly limited to speaker amps.


----------



## BLacklWf

Daemon Ursus said:


> The 788 is single ended only, so amps like the upcoming Monoprice Dac/amp which use it but claim to be balanced are faking it. According to the engineer who designed the AAA tech and this amp, the 789 is a hybrid of the 788 and 888 which is actually balanced. Based on his replies throughout the discussion on the Massdrop comments, I would say if you want to get the AAA tech for headphones, this amp is the best option you are likely to see. The 888 is probably going to be mostly limited to speaker amps.


888 definitely has a headphone amp spec.  However, I’m thinking of ordering 789 since who knows when 888 will be released.


----------



## XERO1

Based on Massdrop's specs for the 789, it looks like it actually is a fully-balanced design.  The power from its balanced output quadruples (compared to its SE output) into 32,300 & 600 Ohm loads. 
My best guess is that it uses _two_ 788 stereo modules to create a fully-balanced circuit.


----------



## Alcophone (Mar 3, 2018)

XERO1 said:


> Based on Massdrop's specs for the 789, it looks like it actually is a fully-balanced design.  The power from its balanced output quadruples (compared to its SE output) into 32,300 & 600 Ohm loads.
> My best guess is that it uses _two_ 788 stereo modules to create a fully-balanced circuit.


That's a bit unclear.

*AndrewMason (THX Ltd. Analog & Power Engineering Expert):*


> Compared to the Massdrop 789, the Monoprice 788:
> -uses the same AAA technology
> -788 has less output current/voltage/power
> -788 no true balanced output (has XLR-4, but it's only driven single-ended)
> ...


(Source)


> There are some very expensive, very nice opamps in there! Supporting truly balanced signal pathway throughout would shoot the cost through the roof, for negligible improvement. See Bruno Putzeys' EDN article on why having truly balanced signal path isn't necessary. "Symmetry is useless". " Differential transmission of audio doesn't mean you need to make a symmetrical voltage " https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4429968/2/The-G-word--How-to-get-your-audio-off-the-ground


(Source)

It certainly seems like it produces fully balanced output (signal on one conductor, inverse signal on the other) regardless of the input, while the Monoprice runs the 4-pin XLR single ended (signal on one conductor, nothing on the the other). But the amp itself does not seem to be truly balanced end to end.


----------



## sejsel

XERO1 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier
> 
> The Massdrop x THX AAA 789 is finally available to order!
> 
> ...




Just as a small remark, difficult to discuss the "impressions" when no one has heard the actual amp, nor released any review. In the end, the device is there to allow users to listen (to the audio). 
Discussing the specs. - now, that - I understand and it should be encouraged, as well as discussing the design. 

The amp is offered att Massdrop at a very good price and it looks very promising. 

I would be looking forward to read the review of the amp from someone who has demoed it extensively. Somehow, I don't think it would hurt the sales either.


----------



## Boerd (Mar 3, 2018)

1. No DAC
2. External power supply
3. Made in China (guess)

I'll pass. Not sure what the point of 0.000007% THD  when my headphones are 0.01% to 2% (HD 650); many other headphones are even worse. The Chord Mojo does the job just fine.
What DAC do you need to keep the combo in that THD range and who can hear the difference?
The price is good though - I have to say it's cheap.


----------



## tizman

I would also love to hear about the listening impressions of someone who has demoed the amp.  There is a Head-Fi TV YouTube video associated with Cam Jam London in which it is suggested that listening impressions were forthcoming.  I am unable to find anything of the sort.  Has anyone critically listened to any version of a THX AAA headphone amp?  The gentleman in that video said he was impressed with his initial listening.  It seems to me that putting out a few demo units of any of the versions would be a good move on the part of THX, if they are indeed as good as it appears from the specifications and measurements.  In my experience with different DACs, amplifiers and other components, I have found that a spec sheet is a good indicator of the technical quality of a component, but it is hardly a replacement for the impressions of a person who has heard the amp, as well as many others, and can thereby judge its merits.  Has anyone done this?


----------



## lugnut

Boerd said:


> 1. No DAC
> 2. External power supply
> 3. Made in China (guess)


This was my take away also. I mentioned the issue about the external power supply on Massdrop, and was told this should not  even be a point of discussion. 
OK Then !


----------



## tizman

1. No DAC
2. External power supply
3. Made in China (guess)

4.  How does it actually sound?
That’s the key one for me. 

With respect to the other three points:

1.  I’d rather use my own DAC that I like and have picked for myself rather than one picked for me that I have to pay for whether I like it or not.
2.  This depends on how good a job they do with the external power supply.  Also, it allows for an easier power supply upgrade if desired.  I prefer to separate the power supply and circuit in my builds, so I see this as a good thing.
3.  Probably a good guess.


----------



## sejsel

tizman said:


> I would also love to hear about the listening impressions of someone who has demoed the amp.  There is a Head-Fi TV YouTube video associated with Cam Jam London in which it is suggested that listening impressions were forthcoming.  I am unable to find anything of the sort.  Has anyone critically listened to any version of a THX AAA headphone amp?  The gentleman in that video said he was impressed with his initial listening.  It seems to me that putting out a few demo units of any of the versions would be a good move on the part of THX, if they are indeed as good as it appears from the specifications and measurements.  In my experience with different DACs, amplifiers and other components, I have found that a spec sheet is a good indicator of the technical quality of a component, but it is hardly a replacement for the impressions of a person who has heard the amp, as well as many others, and can thereby judge its merits.  Has anyone done this?



+1 on the entire post.


----------



## lugnut

October 31, 2018 delivery date is a turn off for me, I am sure some won't mind.


----------



## sejsel (Mar 4, 2018)

tizman said:


> 1. No DAC
> 2. External power supply
> 3. Made in China (guess)
> 
> ...



Good points.
External power supply can be (if well done) beneficial, removing any possible source able to affect ( I guess by the means of EM interference or similar) the sensitive audio circuitry is often regarded as an advantage. It doesn't have to be always the case, but...

As for staff produced in China, well, a nr. of reputable companies from the western hemishphere have outsorced the actual production (facilities) to Shenzen in China. No problems there at all, and some of chi-fi stuff (headphone amps) is decent and good, well known fact today, given in many threads on headfi. 

How good the amp actually sounds, as well as the build quality, ease of maintenance (availability of the parts as well as the - for example - point to point wiring in tube amps), quality of the parts used, both sonic and actual quality is always good to be taken into account (all of this vs. the price).

The engineering is most often the art of compromise.


----------



## Boerd

lugnut said:


> This was my take away also. I mentioned the issue about the external power supply on Massdrop, and was told this should not  even be a point of discussion.
> OK Then !


I also noticed "they" are soo cocky they won't bother to answer questions and when they do their tone is very condescending. Ok then!


----------



## lugnut

Boerd said:


> I also noticed "they" are soo cocky they won't bother to answer questions and when they do their tone is very condescending. Ok then!


Ya I noticed that too !


----------



## tizman

The cockiness could be because they have something really special.  It’s not often that something really special comes along.  Especially at this price point.  The specifications and measurements certainly would indicate that this is the case.  I am very optimistic about THX AAA.  Benchmark’s AHB2 is highly rated by Stereophile, and it uses this tech.  That said, I don’t understand why there aren’t any reviews.  Perhaps there are samples out there, but no one has done a review yet?


----------



## tizman

Also, AndrewMason has been very helpful and polite with me in the MassDrop forum.


----------



## Ad-Astra

Doesn’t look that good


----------



## tizman

What looks better for $350?


----------



## mtmercer

tizman said:


> What looks better for $350?



SMSL T2 2X6J9 Super Low Ground Noise Vacuum Tube Headphone Amplifier... $59.00.  cause tubes bra!
http://a.co/8UdxJdh

Owe you want solid state...

YOHOOLYO Portable Headphone Amplifier Audio Powered Headphone Amplifier... $19.99. END GAME!
http://a.co/eGAPv48

and yes, I have joined the AAA 789 drop!


----------



## baiyy1986

really need some review or hands-on for this beauty.


----------



## mtmercer

baiyy1986 said:


> really need some review or hands-on for this beauty.



Good point.  Gotta be a review unit somewhere.


----------



## tizman

I haven’t found a review yet.  If anyone has a review unit, this would be a good time to put out a review, considering the drop.  If anyone does know of a review, or finds one, please post a link to it in this thread. It would be appreciated.


----------



## Boerd (Mar 6, 2018)

tizman said:


> The cockiness could be because they have something really special.  It’s not often that something really special comes along.  Especially at this price point.  The specifications and measurements certainly would indicate that this is the case.  I am very optimistic about THX AAA.  Benchmark’s AHB2 is highly rated by Stereophile, and it uses this tech.  That said, I don’t understand why there aren’t any reviews.  Perhaps there are samples out there, but no one has done a review yet?



They're not solving Africa's clean water problem nor do they build the first manned flight to Mars... THX could still answer simple questions even if they are at times redundant or simple / simplistic. Part of doing business in a civilized society is playing nice with your potential customers.


----------



## sebna

Guys do you think this amp can be a competition to Violectric V200? Can it be better or is it not the same league?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I was able to stop at the THX both at RMAF last year and heard  both of the circuit amp designs and I spoke with Tim Dick an application engineer from company and heard  2 amps with these amp modules in tiny plexiglass boxes with external PSU's. I asked him then when would these come to market and he mentioned the Benchmark product and I asked anything not in big buck league. Tim said Monoprice would be coming out with amp next year. 

I was throughly impressed with this amp design but waiting till Novemeber seems like a long time. I prefer that their is no DAC in this unit and it have more power and fully balanced output to power those power hungry headphones. 

Lets be real what can you buy for this price point with this kind of power and  design. I think that might be worth putting out $350 to see if Massdrop can excute a simple built highly engineered amp. 

What would be some  power supply options for this unit? 

I do remember they had a nice mix of high impedance headphones and harder to drive ones  and being blow away that a tiny boxed circuit could power all these headphones and sound very good. 

I would like to hear this unit before I buy also .

I think I would take this over the Cavalli Liquid Carbon Massdrop version. 

Here are my thoughts on what the amp design sounds like.


----------



## negura (Mar 8, 2018)

I am not sure how this hasn't sold out yet.

OK there's a long wait. Besides that, even if this reaches 80-90% of the performance of the AHB2 (more on this below), which uses similar technology design, it can be a game changer at this price point and beyond. That said at least from measurements, which isn't everything of course, it shouldn't be too far from the AHB2 (consider AHB2 is measured for speaker loads. THD with this design decreases even further into higher impedance; i.e.: better with headphones), but who knows, since it's done at a different price target.

Also extrapolating from the AHB2, I don't expect this to be warm sounding, or bassy/rolled off, whatever. I expect it to be very revealing and transparent to the source, which is amazing given a good source. In practice most modern sources, including recent delta/sigma are way more performing than what most amplifiers can deliver. Fortunately, as opposed to a few years ago, I am hearing a real progress with delta/sigma, which is what's accessible at this price point and makes it worthwhile for someone wanting to hear what the source can deliver. There are also very good, and arguably better R2R alternative for sources, but unfortunately, the price of good R2R sources puts them way out of the budget this amplifier plays at.

Note: For frame of reference, I use 1 or 2 x AHB2 mainly with speakers, but also with most headphones - works flawlessly and sounds amazing, even with something relatively efficient as Utopia or Aeon Flow Closed and all the way to modded HE-6s. The overall performance of AHB2 *with headphones* (in most areas from transparency, driver control, resolution, lack of added artifacts), is well above end-game headamps like EC Studio or EC 2A3MK4 I had before, not to mention way beyond reach of some popular solid state headamps I had around like the Moon 430HA, Schiit Ragnarok, Audio GD HE-9 etc, let alone anything from Vioelectric, Burson, whatever

Note 2: It's not clear if this is a balanced design internally. The comments I've read from THX designer , it has a "true balanced XLR" output - how about the topology up to the output. Not sure. Does it matter a lot in practice - probably not. Also depends on the source used.

Note 3: Not sure how confident I can be in the included supply. I do not have anything in principle against a well-design SMPS for audio, again considering what was done with the AHB2. This could be a price saving point, but not necessarily.

Note 4: What are they using for volume control - can I assume it's a budget pot to meet the price point? This might hinder performance.

Note5: Although it's more than capable performance-wise with headphones, with extremely low output impedance and completely silent, I have some reservations to recommend the AHB2 for this use.
- It's a power amp and headphones people may not be used to the pitfalls of solving the preamp problem. It's not trivial. The performance of the AHB2 will be affected by underperforming preamps or weird source chain/preamp/power amp matches.
- 1xAHB2 has a lot of power for headphones use, even on low gain. Let alone two of them. Ones has to know what they are doing. HE-6 users usually know the caveats, but there's more than one or two who compromised their headphones. Have fun at your own risk.
- It's a speaker amp with no headphones output, so gotta work this one out
The Massdrop THX 789 solves all this for you.

Even if Note 2,3,4 have an impact, the performance of this could still be hitting MUCH higher than its price indicates.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

It's a long time to wait indeed. This seems like a kickstarter project to me, where they get the money from the buyers then they produce the units. Well...if the specs are true it might very well worth the wait time. I bought one for myself. At 350$ it's not much of a gamble ... Can't wait to hear it. I agree with negura, this might be a game changer!


----------



## a1411832

How does this amp compare to say audio-gd products? I am very much interested in audio-gd NFB-1?

I have a Oppo 105D, and the headphone amp is not that powerful. I am expecting my order of 6XX delivered soon  

Or, should i stop worrying about integrating it to my 105D and get a R2R 11 instead?

Thanks!


----------



## tizman

Thanks FunctionalDoc and Negura.  Based on your comments, comparisons and listening impressions, I am joining the drop.  I had a strong feeling that it would be a great value for the money, and you two have confirmed that feeling for me.  Thanks!


----------



## tizman

From what I remember reading, Andrew Mason was involved in designing the power supply, and he also did so for the one in the AHB2.  I believe that it is an area of specialty for him.  This is a good indicator to me that the power supply unit will be of good quality.


----------



## sebna (Mar 8, 2018)

Guys (and girls),

Do you think it may be a competition, in same league or better to violectric v200 or gustard h10 albeit with different sound signature, precision vs warmish laid back?

I have read comparisons of v200 to most expensive shitt amp and it was blow for blow while i have read comparisons of AAA vs cheapest shitt and it was also a draw... Lol that should tell me a lot...


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Mar 8, 2018)

Jude has the amp for doing testing so should get results soon.

I joined the drop and I beleive that once Jude puts out his review this will sell out. I watched the video on Home Theater geeks with the Vp of THX  talking about design and said thius amp will be punching much above its price point. Let the wait begin.


----------



## mtmercer

Deleted.


----------



## baiyy1986

After a couple of days I would say Andrew Mason is very helpful, he almost replies every question that people confused.
I would say they must know what they are doing, and in the price range, this may be the most powerful headlamp. I asume it would be more like audio-GD NFB-1 type of amp, which is smooth and neutral sounding, also they are the same output specs on the paper. Differents is NFB-1 is Class-A and 789 is class-AB, which is more efficient and don't get warm.
But everything just guesses


----------



## CEE TEE

tizman said:


> I haven’t found a review yet.  If anyone has a review unit, this would be a good time to put out a review, considering the drop.  If anyone does know of a review, or finds one, please post a link to it in this thread. It would be appreciated.



Hi Tizman,
Thanks for your interest.
There are two units out for review and measurements, Jude has one and just got his Audio Precision back up and running after an upgrade.  Hope to have some 3rd party graphs and impressions soon...


----------



## GenEricOne

Joined the Drop earlier today. Looking forward to Jude's measurements and impressions.


----------



## mtoc

negura said:


> reaches 80-90% of the performance of the AHB2



no, using AHB2 to drive headphones is not a good idea, it has more than ten times output noise than headphone amps', as a speaker amp, the noise is pretty low, but with this much higher noise it doesn't suit to be a headphone amp, different things entirely.

so what are you trying to say is that if we use this 789 headphone amp to drive speakers, could we get 80% of AHB2? I have no idea, but I'm sure it could output 2.83v or even 5v (highest gain) under speaker load, and its output z = 0.1 ohm (at 1k Hz, this value isn't a constant number), would not be a problem at all.

yes, we could use this little amp to drive speakers (ignore those hard to drive ones)


----------



## mtoc

any massdrop folks here? just posted the THD+n vs output power graph, would be more professional

here's an example, try to be more professional, guys (62 ohm load, not 300 ohm)

http://www.funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/LPA-2S-englisch.pdf


----------



## smallcaps

Haven't posted on head-fi for around 5 years but came back because of this amp. Very much looking forward to Jude's impressions. Needless to say, I joined the drop, and the addiction is back in full swing. Now shopping for an appropriate DAC for this baby. What are people thinking of pairing with this?


----------



## Alcophone

smallcaps said:


> Haven't posted on head-fi for around 5 years but came back because of this amp. Very much looking forward to Jude's impressions. Needless to say, I joined the drop, and the addiction is back in full swing. Now shopping for an appropriate DAC for this baby. What are people thinking of pairing with this?


My Yggy at work, for now, but Massdrop is also working on a matching DAC (according to @CEE TEE in the Massdrop comments).


----------



## cardeli22

Alcophone said:


> My Yggy at work, for now, but Massdrop is also working on a matching DAC (according to @CEE TEE in the Massdrop comments).


I am waiting to see what Massdrop makes to pair with this as well.


----------



## Zachik

Apologies if I missed it mentioned:
Are we going to be able to read any reviews before drop closes in less than a week?!
CT mentioned 2 units out for measurements / evaluation


----------



## cardeli22

Zachik said:


> Apologies if I missed it mentioned:
> Are we going to be able to read any reviews before drop closes in less than a week?!
> CT mentioned 2 units out for measurements / evaluation


I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Yes. Do a Google search.


----------



## franz12

Zachik said:


> Apologies if I missed it mentioned:
> Are we going to be able to read any reviews before drop closes in less than a week?!
> CT mentioned 2 units out for measurements / evaluation



Given their weak sales figures so far, I anticipate another run of the drop before Oct 31 (shipping date). So I don't worry much about a missing opportunity.
If not? Well. There is a plenty of other good options in a market out there. So I would not much complain.


----------



## tizman

liu-junyuan:  Please provide a link for the review.


----------



## cardeli22

tizman said:


> liu-junyuan:  Please provide a link for the review.


LOL I must google bad because I searched " Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier Review" and sort for the last month and got two pages of , like the rest of us, people talking about how to might sound or the wait is too long.


----------



## tizman

There is a comparison of an early version of the Massdrop-THX amp and a Jot somewhere that I read a while back, but having no experience with the Jot, it is not helpful to me.  No proper review exists that I have seen and, like Cardeli22, I have been searching.  Google mostly, I haven't extended the search outside of my house.  Yet....


----------



## tizman

The review is probably in the same place as my car keys.


----------



## cardeli22

tizman said:


> The review is probably in the same place as my car keys.


LOL


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Link is forbidden here. Yes, one of them is the comparison to the Jot.

I am joining the drop.


----------



## tizman

liu-junyuan:  Thanks.  I saw that one.  I forgot that links aren’t allowed.  Are there other reviews that you know of?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

tizman said:


> liu-junyuan:  Thanks.  I saw that one.  I forgot that links aren’t allowed.  Are there other reviews that you know of?



No, sorry.


----------



## sebna

I on the other hand may be leaving the drop... I do not think I can be bothered with this dodgy no reviews tactics...


----------



## cardeli22

sebna said:


> I on the other hand may be leaving the drop... I do not think I can be bothered with this dodgy no reviews tactics...


Weird that the Focal Elex had been given to some reviewers before the drop so there were reviews, easily available reviews, (here and on Youtube) but not for this.


----------



## sebna

Most likely that is becasue they do not have the final product ready... but still they should give some samples just to assess and compare the technology itself.

And I am not taking people who will do measurement as we can see those already but to audiophiles who could not care less about the measurement.

Unless is it not as good as they try to paint it...


----------



## Zachik

Liu Junyuan said:


> Link is forbidden here. Yes, one of them is the comparison to the Jot.





sebna said:


> I on the other hand may be leaving the drop... I do not think I can be bothered with this dodgy no reviews tactics...


Found it eventually. Did not know certain links are forbidden.
Anyhow, I do own the original Jot (bought it very shortly after it came out) and was very surprised to learn it was changed recently! 
I think MD is not doing themselves any favors by not making sure reviews are lined up for a new product introduction! Many (myself included) would not join this one, for that reason...
@CEE TEE - reconsider this strategy buddy


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Mar 24, 2018)

Re:sebna

Cool. You could just leave the drop without sharing your affinity for conspiracy theories (evidenced by the scare-word “tactics”).

On the other hand, I just said there was a review. So it is false to say there is “dodgy NO review tactics.”

I’m not sure what’s up with Jude’s promised review. Perhaps at/after Canjam he’ll drop some impressions.

The only issues I have with this drop are the wait and the wall wart. I am more perturbed by the latter. Otherwise, I am fairly certain this will be an outstanding amp.


----------



## cardeli22

Zachik said:


> Found it eventually. Did not know certain links are forbidden.
> Anyhow, I do own the original Jot (bought it very shortly after it came out) and was very surprised to learn it was changed recently!
> I think MD is not doing themselves any favors by not making sure reviews are lined up for a new product introduction! Many (myself included) would not join this one, for that reason...
> @CEE TEE - reconsider this strategy buddy


Not to derail too much but what has changed with the Jotunheim besides the ability to choose a multibit dac add-on as well as the balanced dac? Genuinely curious.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Zachik said:


> Found it eventually. Did not know certain links are forbidden.
> Anyhow, I do own the original Jot (bought it very shortly after it came out) and was very surprised to learn it was changed recently!
> I think MD is not doing themselves any favors by not making sure reviews are lined up for a new product introduction! Many (myself included) would not join this one, for that reason...
> @CEE TEE - reconsider this strategy buddy



Jot has had a silent revision(s). Treble is purportedly smoother and timbre slightly warmer. Bass and slam remain unchanged. Staging still sucks. 

The review that is out is all I need, combined with negura’s posts earlier in the thread.


----------



## cardeli22

Liu Junyuan said:


> Jot has had a silent revision(s). Treble is purportedly smoother and timbre slightly warmer. Bass and slam remain unchanged. Staging still sucks.
> 
> The review that is out is all I need, combined with negura’s posts earlier in the thread.


Thanks for explaining.


----------



## mtmercer

Liu Junyuan said:


> Jot has had a silent revision(s). Treble is purportedly smoother and timbre slightly warmer. Bass and slam remain unchanged. Staging still sucks.
> 
> The review that is out is all I need, combined with negura’s posts earlier in the thread.



@cardeli22 

I would describe the claimed change to the JOT as "Me and someone else think it sounds different in XYZ way."  I do not necessarily think we can say with certainty that the JOT has had a silent revision.  If you google "thx 789 aaa vs jot" the impressions in question are my 1st search result for reference.


----------



## cardeli22

mtmercer said:


> @cardeli22
> 
> I would describe the claimed change to the JOT as "Me and someone else think it sounds different in XYZ way."  I do not necessarily think we can say with certainty that the JOT has had a silent revision.  If you google "thx 789 aaa vs jot" the impressions in question are my 1st search result for reference.


Found it when phrased that way. Thanks.


----------



## Alcophone

The Jot modifications are pure speculation.

Jude already had to rush the video with CanJam Singapore announcements, I'd imagine he will try to squeeze something out early next week, just in time for people to still join.

The drop is also limited to 480 units, 290+ are sold, so more than half. Compare that to the Gustard H20 drop where one guy joined shortly before it ended, with three people needed. Now that's a bad drop...


----------



## Liu Junyuan

The silent Jot revisions are corroborated by Schiit and by those who are friends with Schiit.

That's probably right, on Jude's front.

Exactly--290+ sold is an incredible number of people with enough patience to wait until Halloween for this amp.


----------



## CEE TEE

Hey Guys,
I don’t want to promise, but I am hoping to get some more samples by SoCal CanJam where I will have a table...
Also, Jude was slammed with Singapore but I know he was working on some measurements.
Zachik, are you local?  I should be getting back an early prototype this week.


----------



## Alcophone

Liu Junyuan said:


> The silent Jot revisions are corroborated by Schiit and by those who are friends with Schiit.


Hm, then I missed it. Can you point me in the right direction of Jason commenting on it?


----------



## Zachik

Liu Junyuan said:


> The only issues I have with this drop are the wait and the wall wart. I am more perturbed by the latter. Otherwise, I am fairly certain this will be an outstanding amp.


I contacted @CEE TEE some time ago, suggesting they come up with a box in same form factor or double-height as the new amps (LCX, CTH) that would serve as a multi-device LPS. Basically, 1 AC in and 3 or 4 DC outs for the above (plus future MD amps / DACs)... think of something like:
https://wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-mods-accessories/ps-1-modular-linear-power-supply 

That would resolve the wall warts / power bricks mess when getting several MD devices like many of us do...



Alcophone said:


> Jude already had to rush the video with CanJam Singapore announcements, I'd imagine he will try to squeeze something out early next week, just in time for people to still join.


One could hope... I would not hold my breathe, knowing how busy Jude is, especially when traveling internationally.


----------



## Zachik

CEE TEE said:


> Zachik, are you local?  I should be getting back an early prototype this week.


Hey CT - yeah, I live in San Jose. We had a long chat at the SF meet a few months ago - I would be shocked if you remember, as you were overwhelmed by Head-Fi-ers


----------



## franz12

Liu Junyuan said:


> The silent Jot revisions are corroborated by Schiit and by those who are friends with Schiit.
> 
> That's probably right, on Jude's front.
> 
> Exactly--290+ sold is an incredible number of people with enough patience to wait until Halloween for this amp.



290+ might be probably due to the sheer size of the U.S. market which has 300 million population with 50k+ gdp per person. I bet 270 orders out of 290+ come from the U.S. customers. 
It seems to me that the THX is mildly better than Jot while slightly cheaper. Given the long waiting period, not enough to attract huge attention, but still probably the best strategy considering the production capacity of a boutique company.


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Mar 25, 2018)

franz12 said:


> 290+ might be probably due to the sheer size of the U.S. market which has 300 million population with 50k+ gdp per person. I bet 270 orders out of 290+ come from the U.S. customers.
> It seems to me that the THX is mildly better than Jot while slightly cheaper. Given the long waiting period, not enough to attract huge attention, but still probably the best strategy considering the production capacity of a boutique company.



Interesting stats, but I wasn't exactly sure what the nature of the relationship you were implying was between 290+ and the US population's GDP, especially in terms of a probable causal relationship (you used "probably due to"). Are you saying the number is high or low _because_ of the 50k+ GDP of the 300 million U.S. population, or what exactly did you mean? 

I would be inclined to say this hobby is very niche and that the majority of the U.S. population with 50k+ or not has no clue what Massdrop, head-fi, or headphones beyond Beats and airpods is/are, and I do not mean that condescendingly.

Good point on the Jot. The long wait period is huge. I am not sure how to quantify slightly mildly better, though. It may be a more significant step up than the Jot, depending on user, chain, preferences, etc. I am not attracted to the Jot at all, for instance. I am very attracted to this.


----------



## i20bot

I'm pretty sure between now and release there will be reviews and the drop will open up a couple of times more.


----------



## franz12

Liu Junyuan said:


> Interesting stats, but I wasn't exactly sure what the nature of the relationship you were implying was between 290+ and the US population's GDP, especially in terms of a probable causal relationship (you used "probably due to"). Are you saying the number is high or low _because_ of the 50k+ GDP of the 300 million U.S. population, or what exactly did you mean?
> 
> I would be inclined to say this hobby is very niche and that the majority of the U.S. population with 50k+ or not has no clue what Massdrop, head-fi, or headphones beyond Beats and airpods is/are, and I do not mean that condescendingly.
> 
> Good point on the Jot. The long wait period is huge. I am not sure how to quantify slightly mildly better, though. It may be a more significant step up than the Jot, depending on user, chain, preferences, etc. I am not attracted to the Jot at all, for instance. I am very attracted to this.



One reason why I mentioned the size of the U.S. market is because Massdrop is a U.S. company. Simply speaking, there a whole lot more risk making an international order for whatever reasons (consumer protections, credit card issues, import taxes etc) particularly when it comes to a long waiting period like this. I am pretty sure that if a waiting period is shorter, this drop would attract more foreign customers.

But for a waiting period more than 6 months, a fewer foreign customers are willing to bet on a niche product like a headphone amp. Still there are many people out there who believe a high-end AMP/DAC things belong to a snake oil industry. Indeed, many people would fail to pass a blind test among decent performing AMP/DACs. $350 price tag is cheap compared to something like Cavalli Crimson, but not cheap by any mean for laymen. Given sizeable risk of international orders, I imagine it is hardly justifiable to chase obscure sound bliss ordering an headphone amp without reliable reviews.

Well, if it were headphones, speakers, or IEMs instead of AMP/DAC stuff, there would be of course more foreign customers. Of course, whole of these are purely my conjectures. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## CEE TEE

Zachik said:


> Hey CT - yeah, I live in San Jose. We had a long chat at the SF meet a few months ago - I would be shocked if you remember, as you were overwhelmed by Head-Fi-ers


I totally remember you. You've got ZMF phones and a Massdrop CTH.  PM me and let's try to meet up this week, should have at least one proto back. Tons of travel for me next month...


----------



## sebna (Mar 25, 2018)

Liu Junyuan said:


> Re:sebna
> 
> Cool. You could just leave the drop without sharing your affinity for conspiracy theories (evidenced by the scare-word “tactics”).
> 
> ...



I will do what I like mister and do not get me wrong but you will not tell me otherwise. It is kind of rude BTW. The message you are quoting is my opinion (I am sure not only mine) and I am free to voice it.

No there is no review. The comparison to JOT is not a review.

Selling something for 400 USD that is more or less advertised as reinvention of wheel, which could be worth 0 to some, can be considered dodgy tactics. When there is no reviews the seller opens itself to such situations becasue that is exactly what can happen. People will buy taken by some marketing nonsense about 00000.00000.00004% (insert any number here) when what really matters is how it sounds. And how it sounds is the biggest unknown and should be the only selling point.

Simple review done by audiophile would answer the question for those to who numbers do not matter (if those are in acceptable brackets) and this group of people could make more of an informant decision.

But then we all know it, don't we?


----------



## Alcophone

CEE TEE said:


> I totally remember you. You've got ZMF phones and a Massdrop CTH.  PM me and let's try to meet up this week, should have at least one proto back. Tons of travel for me next month...


I'm gonna casually mention that I work in SoMa


----------



## tizman

What I find baffling is the lack of reviews despite the apparent existence of samples out there.  Why no reviews?  It doesn’t make sense. They must know that with a niche product like this one, a good review would help sales and get the word out about THX AAA.  THX has done a lot of cool stuff over the years, but I don’t immediately think audiophile when I think about THX.  Maybe the plan is to get the product out to audiophiles, and have the audiophile niche market sell it to the mass market through the glowing reviews they are expecting.  That might actually be a good plan.  But it would be a long term plan.  Long term as in starting in October.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I am in on the drop and yes I don't like waiting till November to get the amp but what I heard at RMAF last year it will be worth the wait . I listened to the JOT  and this amp circuit at RMAF on a pair of HD800 and I will take the precision and the speed of the THX amp any day over the Jotunheim IMO. 

What I will be interested is how this amp will compare to the HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2  at $499. Please  *CEE TEE* let *Zachik *review one of these since he has a Gilmore Lite MK2 since he bought serial number 2 at RMAF last year and his impressions would be very insightful. 

I think THX brand  to most headphone enthusiasts is for home theaters so a lot people just walked on by the their booth last year at RMAF. 

I currently own iFi micro – iDSD Black Label use a modded pair of HE-400i , Aeon's closed and ZMF Teak Auteur's for my listening sessions.

I look forward to some reviews and hope that my purchase will live up to what I heard at RMAF.  We will see.


----------



## donato

Liu Junyuan said:


> Exactly--290+ sold is an incredible number of people with enough patience to wait until Halloween for this amp.



I think that's a decent number of buyers as well.  The price is reasonably low enough that it could be an impulse purchase (albeit one you have to wait for), but I personally have not joined the drop and I'm a pretty regular customer of Massdrop (I've joined 30 drops in the last 30 months, of which 22 were audio related).  It's not so much about the lead time (I bought a couple of the Cavalli drops with that much lead time), but it's that there aren't any reviews out there and I don't really know the reputation of THX AAA and specs alone aren't nearly enough to persuade me.  I bought the Massdrop Cavalli LCX and CTH based on the reputation of Cavalli.  If the THX AAA amp ends up being a great product, then there will undoubtedly be more drops (i.e. there will be many requests to massdrop).  So, I'm interested, not interested enough to commit just yet, but will be watching for the reviews once it ships.


----------



## Zachik

FunctionalDoc said:


> What I will be interested is how this amp will compare to the HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2 at $499. Please *CEE TEE* let *Zachik *review one of these since he has a Gilmore Lite MK2 since he bought serial number 2 at RMAF last year and his impressions would be very insightful.


Dude, I got the serial # 1 (not 2)!!! 
Not a joke - Peter from HeadAmp literally asked me to wait for 15 minutes after the show closed, so he could take some photos, because he did not plan on selling the ONLY production unit he had 



donato said:


> I think that's a decent number of buyers as well.  The price is reasonably low enough that it could be an impulse purchase (albeit one you have to wait for), but I personally have not joined the drop and I'm a pretty regular customer of Massdrop (I've joined 30 drops in the last 30 months, of which 22 were audio related).  *It's not so much about the lead time (I bought a couple of the Cavalli drops with that much lead time), but it's that there aren't any reviews out there and I don't really know the reputation of THX AAA and specs alone aren't nearly enough to persuade me.*  I bought the Massdrop Cavalli LCX and CTH based on the reputation of Cavalli.  If the THX AAA amp ends up being a great product, then there will undoubtedly be more drops (i.e. there will be many requests to massdrop).  So, I'm interested, not interested enough to commit just yet, but will be watching for the reviews once it ships.


Exactly! MY only problem is lack of good reviews / 3rd party objective info. I can live with the wait - I got both Cavalli drops, the LCX and CTH, for which I waited for 6 months or so.


----------



## Sanlitun

I am as well on the fence about this amp, I feel it's a bit of a breakthrough product and there should be some considerable buzz around it. But so far very little real info.

Measurements alone don't tell the whole story. I bought the Jotunheim largely based on hype and measurements and while it is a good amp it has a lot of zingy inertia that can be fatiguing. THD plots or square wave graphs are not going to be able to give you the entire picture.

I really want to get this amp, so I hope there is a little bit more community generated info coming.


----------



## Zachik

Sanlitun said:


> Measurements alone don't tell the whole story. I bought the Jotunheim largely based on hype and measurements and while it is a good amp it has a lot of zingy inertia that can be fatiguing. THD plots or square wave graphs are not going to be able to give you the entire picture.


Totally agree - I also got the Jot early on, and that was my first "real" amp, but I do not like it much. Too bright with harsh highs at times. 
I keep it mostly for comparisons, and as an example of how a good amp that I do not like sound like


----------



## alpovs

Liu Junyuan said:


> The silent Jot revisions are corroborated by Schiit and by those who are friends with Schiit.


Links or it didn't happen.


----------



## alpovs

Anybody bothered by that it's advertised as balanced but it's not truly balanced throughout?


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Mar 26, 2018)

alpovs said:


> Links or it didn't happen.



Then believe it didn't happen, and you can go about your day.


----------



## sebna

Left the drop. Cannot be bothered anymore. I have waited long enough for some meaningful reviews. I was 50th person to join about 30 minutes after the drop has started.  

Maybe with next drop I will revisit once it is of known quality...


----------



## CEE TEE

Alcophone said:


> I'm gonna casually mention that I work in SoMa


Hi Alcophone...Zachik won't be able to meet up this week.  Do you want to try and come by Friday around 5pm?  If yes, PM me.  I am listening to one of the returned units now.


----------



## Alcophone

CEE TEE said:


> Hi Alcophone...Zachik won't be able to meet up this week.  Do you want to try and come by Friday around 5pm?  If yes, PM me.  I am listening to one of the returned units now.


Thank you, I'd love to! PM sent.


----------



## Sythrix

alpovs said:


> Anybody bothered by that it's advertised as balanced but it's not truly balanced throughout?



Yes actually. There was a reply where they said it didn’t matter, but I don’t know enough about it to verify that what they’re saying is the whole story.

Here:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...k/1990493?utm_source=linkshare&referer=CJSK9K


----------



## Zachik

Alcophone said:


> Thank you, I'd love to! PM sent.


Please share some info / impressions / notes afterwards...


----------



## Gallic Dweller

No one seems aware that this is not breakthrough technology, it's only a revamp of what Quad were doing in  the 1970s' aka Quad 405 power amp which is still very popular and can still be sent to Quad for renovation. There is also a guy in Sussex who is making improved copies. Paul Baldwin /www.ReelAudio.Co.UK. Apparently he's always open to custom built equipment. He does'nt build h/amps but he's got the expertise to design one using this technology. If I can get the help I need to mod the pre-amp circuit of the D/V 336SE, I'd like to use his version of the 405 for my speakers.


----------



## mtmercer

alpovs said:


> Anybody bothered by that it's advertised as balanced but it's not truly balanced throughout?



I personally am NOT bothered by the marketing or the topology specifics of however they achieve the performance of the amp.  This is because I am trying to take more of a black box approach to amps and let user impressions drive selection.  In this case, I admit to not following that objective.  I like the thought of "wire with gain" style amps but I joined the drop without reviews or user impressions available.  Self admitted hypocrite I guess 

When I got into this hobby last year, I thought I would learn how amps are designed and be able to predict an amps performance based on a technical evaluation of topology.  I was wrong on 3 counts.  
1) I have no idea to design an amp and I'm too lazy to go read several books just to get a basic understanding of how to design a mediocre amp.
2) Even if I did understand how to design an amp, the designers/marketing only share high level info about the amps topology.  Detailed topology diagrams are not public for obvious reasons.
3) Even if I actually did know how to design an amp and had the topology, the performance of the amp also depends on the quality of components selected for said topology.  We don't usually get the parts list and even if I had it, I would not be able to evaluate it.

Then there is the whole interpreting specs aspects of various amps.  I admit to pleading ignorance other than a basic understanding of amp specs.  I will point out that what I consider my current most transparent amp is the HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk 2 which has few specs published and the specs that are published don't WOW you.  But if you get a chance to listen to you, it really makes a great impression with its clarify, transparency, and lack of harshness, etc.


----------



## alpovs

Sythrix said:


> Yes actually. There was a reply where they said it didn’t matter, but I don’t know enough about it to verify that what they’re saying is the whole story.
> 
> Here:
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...k/1990493?utm_source=linkshare&referer=CJSK9K


Yes, I was referring to that statement.


----------



## Alcophone

15h, <170 amps left


----------



## Alcophone

Zachik said:


> Please share some info / impressions / notes afterwards...


Will do my best!


----------



## Alcophone

Measurements by @jude, shared by @CEE TEE: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk/2019370


----------



## jude

This amp all but requires the Audio Precision APx555 audio analyzer to get the full measure of it -- I'm not sure there's another analyzer that has a deeper floor. As you can see in the FFT plot that I sent CEE_TEE (also attached to this post below), the Massdrop x THX AAA 789's floor rides right atop the APx555's across the audio band -- this is lower than any other amp I've measured, and by a margin.




 

(One thing I inadvertently left out that should have been in the FFT configuration text in the graph is that bandwidth was 90k (192 kHz SR).)

As for the 789's sound, I'm happy to say that it measures this way and it sounds great, too -- that's the easiest kind of story to tell. I'll say more about it after CanJam SoCal. I'm sorry this measurement is only being posted now -- we've been swamped with three CanJams in a row (NYC, Singapore, and now SoCal).

I'll do more measurements after CanJam SoCal.


----------



## GenEricOne

Thanks for posting that, Jude.

Any chance we can get the same data but a logarithmic scale for Frequency? The detail below 1kHz is squashed.


----------



## Sanlitun (Mar 30, 2018)

Missed the drop. Why did they end it in the middle of the night? If it had been 6 PM rather than 6 AM I would be in.


----------



## alpovs

Why balanced input but unbalanced output in the measurements?


----------



## jude

alpovs said:


> Why balanced input but unbalanced output in the measurements?


Connection availability. I had a very limited time window to do the measurement, and we had what was needed in the box to make that connection from the 1/4" headphone out. At some point after CanJam SoCal, I'd like to run more measures and post more about what I think of this amp subjectively, too.


----------



## Daemon Ursus

Sanlitun said:


> Missed the drop. Why did they end it in the middle of the night?


It ended at midnight Massdrop local time, not that strange IMO.


----------



## tizman

The drop is over.  Now is a perfect time for some listening impressions and a review of a sample.  If you all like, I can do an impression of some listening impressions....


----------



## sebna

tizman said:


> The drop is over.  Now is a perfect time for some listening impressions and a review of a sample.  If you all like, I can do an impression of some listening impressions....



Is this a joke? If so it is a bad one.


----------



## tizman

You are right.  This is not the joke thread, it’s the thread for listening impressions.  But there are no listening impressions.  That’s actually the joke.  Well, that’s my impression.


----------



## tizman

“Bad joke” is your opinion.  Unlike opinions, not everyone has impressions.  Actually, no one has impressions.  But I can do an impression of someone who has heard the amp and has an actual listening impression.  No joke.


----------



## tizman

Here is a short excerpt from my “Impression of a Listening Impression of the THX AAA 789 Linear Amplifier”...

“Upon receiving the amplifier, I took it out of the box and placed it on my solid plutonium equipment rack.  I was immediately struck by its incredible transparency.  I could clearly see the top of the equipment rack through the amplifier.”


----------



## Daemon Ursus

tizman said:


> Here is a short excerpt from my “Impression of a Listening Impression of the THX AAA 789 Linear Amplifier”...
> 
> “Upon receiving the amplifier, I took it out of the box and placed it on my solid plutonium equipment rack.  I was immediately struck by its incredible transparency.  I could clearly see the top of the equipment rack through the amplifier.”



Man, if you were any saltier, your name would be Lot's wife. Maybe take a breath go outside, get some sun, possibly even have a good time and realize its just a first production run of a headphone amp, not a life and death situation.


----------



## Gallic Dweller

DU - well said. hang loose, catch some rays, one or three glasses of a good wine also helps - listen to some sounds, that also helps.


----------



## tizman

Went outside, took a walk in the sun, heard a bunch of birds chirping, and had a few beers.  It helped a bit.  Let me know if you all would like another snippet of my impressions.  Lots more.....


----------



## GenEricOne (Apr 4, 2018)

Small bit of news, Jude had a brief blurb about sound impressions from listening to THX AAA amps, with the implication that this includes the Massdrop x THX AAA-789.

The rundown: In Jude's CanJam SoCal Preview video, Jude announces the Benchmark HPA4 will be present at CanJam SoCal 2018. HPA4 is another THX AAA amp, based on the AAA-888.

He shows the Massdrop x THX AAA-789 measurements that are already in this thread and says he expects the HPA4 to measure at least as good.

Then he goes on, "Now if you're wondering if this kind of measured performance means clinical sound, think again. The AAA amps I've heard so far have been, like Benchmark's latest DACs, highly resolving, neutral, and yet smooth."

Link to YouTube video beginning at the of the HPA4 segment:
.


----------



## mtoc

Benchmark hpa4: thx888 dual mono
this: 788 dual mono


----------



## negura (Apr 8, 2018)

The price of this makes the Massdrop amp the bargain of the century or what.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/hi-fi-preamplifiers/products/hpa4

But don't get me wrong, knowing what I know, I still think the Benchmark amp will be worth the asking price. The 256 steps, 0.5dB relay volume control seems well thought out.


----------



## alpovs (Apr 9, 2018)

Moreover, it ships June 2108. And you thought Massdrop was slow.


----------



## Zachik

alpovs said:


> Moreover, it ships June 2108. And you thought Massdrop was slow.


Got one for my grandkid (my son is 11...) - thanks!


----------



## cardeli22

alpovs said:


> Moreover, it ships June 2108. And you thought Massdrop was slow.


I would have to buy it in the hopes that my great-grand kids would enjoy it. LOL


----------



## M Siau

2108 is going to be here before you know it! may seem like a long time to wait, and yet pre-orders are pouring in! The HPA4 is 90 years ahead of its time! Sorry for the typo, the Benchmark HPA4 will be shipping June of 2018!


----------



## Sythrix

jude said:


> I'll do more measurements after CanJam SoCal.



Any update on those measurements? 

Also, I was wondering if you saw this topic that came up in the posts after the review of the RME ADI-2 DAC at audiosciencereview.com.

Basically, it explores the apparent effect of how real headphone loads have a substantially different effect on amp performance over dummy loads. The measurement is made with real headphones attached. I was wondering if you had ever experimented with this and indeed, if you may be able to do a similar test with the THX AAA 789.

Also linked is the original Benchmark article.

RME's Matthias Carstens responded to a question regarding this behavior in what seemed to be a dismissive manner, but I have difficulty figuring out exactly what he was trying to say, other than it was unfounded.

Thanks again!


----------



## JRey

Since this is a massdrop made item, what’re the chances it’ll drop again in the future?
From what I’ve seen, the CTH, 6xx, 4xx and other MDM items keep redropping consistently. 
It would be nice if this drops again. It would complete my amp stack lol


----------



## Oublie

For those of you who can't wait and want to try a mobile version I-blades.Com are selling thx aaa smart cases. No specifics on which amp but I would guess it will be an se lower quality amp.


----------



## AndrewM888

Sythrix said:


> Any update on those measurements?



Here's our latest comprehensive set of measurements: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gO8lZkv6kjcOWR0-qmP2nXkpZIFuRYHi

-Andrew from THX


----------



## mtmercer

I should have bought 2!


----------



## JRey

Can we get another drop, please?!?!


----------



## Sythrix

AndrewM888 said:


> Here's our latest comprehensive set of measurements: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gO8lZkv6kjcOWR0-qmP2nXkpZIFuRYHi
> 
> -Andrew from THX



Thanks! 

Truly comprehensive, as you said. Can’t wait to get a hold of one!


----------



## twocentsear

JRey said:


> Can we get another drop, please?!?!


I wanna know if they're gonna drop it again.


----------



## Daemon Ursus

twocentsear said:


> I wanna know if they're gonna drop it again.



I'm sure they will at some point, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it happening before the first batch ships. Which means it will be at least November.


----------



## twocentsear

Daemon Ursus said:


> I'm sure they will at some point, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it happening before the first batch ships. Which means it will be at least November.


I don't really mind *when* they'll drop it (provided hopefully its not on 2020 or something later), I care more on the *if* and *will* part.


----------



## Daemon Ursus

twocentsear said:


> I don't really mind *when* they'll drop it (provided hopefully its not on 2020 or something later), I care more on the *if* and *will* part.



I'm pretty sure they didn't put the huge amount of time and money it took to make this amp into it hoping they would only sell the 300ish they have so far. I'd say it's probably about a 99 percent certainty that they will drop it again eventually.


----------



## tizman

I’m guessing that having made a few review samples available would have resulted in more sales on the original drop.  Just a guess though, as I’m not a marketing guru.  If I had to guess what the amp is like based on the tech, on reviews of the tech in other devices, and on posts by members of the engineering team that developed it, I’d say it’s going to be at least good and possibly great.  All guesses though.  Guesses that could have been replaced with actual listening impressions of actual sample review units.  I’ll definately buy one if it drops again based on positive reviews.  Otherwise, it’s really just guessing, and I’m not going to buy anything based on a guess.  At least not anymore.....


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

these didnt sell nearly as well as the cth and lcx so it may be a while before they do a drop again prob after the first drop ships out.


----------



## CEE TEE

Hi All,
Thank you for your interest.  We didn't have as many listening samples as we wanted at launch but knew this would be a great amp and loved due to early prototypes and the graphs during development.

I just saw some shots of the amps being built...will get a few off the Pilot Run soon and will send a couple of them out for listening impressions.
We also have some measurement graphs from THX we will post.

I have an earlier build that I keep on my desk.  The amp is surprisingly natural-sounding, but not "dry".  Dynamic, powerful, and clean.

I think we will re-open the drop next month to sell a few that we will have left from the first production run.
Or, the planning team may open it up for more sales with a later shipping date...please keep an eye out next month!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

nice i may pick up a second one myself. im so impatient lol i want to hear this thing already haha


----------



## Zachik

CEE TEE said:


> Hi All,
> Thank you for your interest.  We didn't have as many listening samples as we wanted at launch but knew this would be a great amp and loved due to early prototypes and the graphs during development.
> 
> I just saw some shots of the amps being built...will get a few off the Pilot Run soon and will send a couple of them out for listening impressions.
> ...


I can confirm that THX-789 indeed sound natural and clean. Plenty power, too. For purists, or people that love very natural sound with no coloration - this one is worth your consideration!
@CEE TEE - thanks for letting me audition it for a few days 
Good decision on re-opening the drop to allow more people in.


----------



## twocentsear

Daemon Ursus said:


> I'm pretty sure they didn't put the huge amount of time and money it took to make this amp into it hoping they would only sell the 300ish they have so far. I'd say it's probably about a 99 percent certainty that they will drop it again eventually.


I hope they do the same for their R2R DAC.


----------



## alpovs (Aug 13, 2018)

The drop is on again. Estimated ship date is *Feb 15, 2019.* This drop is limited to 480 units.

P.S. The drop says "328 Ever Sold". I came here to read the impressions. How come there is none? Who bought 328 units? Am I missing something? Is there another thread about this amp?

P.P.S. Nevermind. I figured the previous drop hasn't shipped yet. I left my flow of thoughts here in case someone else has the same thoughts.


----------



## Anarion

This is extremely tempting... Considering the specs and balanced design, the price isn't that bad.

Are the current drop page description gain options accurate? @CEE TEE


----------



## ufospls2

"
This update is for members who joined the drop in March:
Hi everyone,
The Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier is making its way through production! We also have some important updates to share about the gain specifications.
We worked with THX to adjust the gains for the primary use case of the Audiophile community. Previously, the gains were optimized for variance in source output power. Most Audiophiles typically use 2V DAC sources and wish to drive in-ear monitors or hard-to-drive headphones.
With these slight changes there were some updates to the gain specifications, which we have listed below:
General:

Frequency response: + 0.01 dB / - 0.03 dB 20 Hz–20 kHz; + 0.05 dB / - 0.15 dB 10 Hz–50 kHz
Balanced Output:

THD: -130 dB, 32 ohms, 1 mW: 0.000032%
THD: -130 dB, 32 ohms, 100 mW: 0.000032%
THD: -122 dB, 16 ohms, 1 mW: 0.000080%
THD: -122 dB, 16 ohms, 100 mW: 0.000080%
Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x, 6.6x (-4, +6, +16 dB), selectable via front switch"


Damn. The reason I was interested in this amp was the 24db high gain. Going to have to look elsewhere.


----------



## Anarion (Aug 14, 2018)

The reason I'm interested is the negative gain.  It would make my life much easier...


----------



## AndrewM888

ufospls2 said:


> "
> This update is for members who joined the drop in March:
> Hi everyone,
> The Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier is making its way through production! We also have some important updates to share about the gain specifications.
> ...


Hi UFO.  The 789 has tons of gain and will still go nearly to clipping with a 2 V DAC.  What's your DAC/source rms voltage?  And do you use TRS or XLR-4 headphone connection?


----------



## AndrewM888

Anarion said:


> The reason I'm interested is the negative gain.  It would make my life much easier...


Exactly. We added the -10dB gain setting because it's awesome for IEMs.  It permits a large usable range from the volume pot and a really low noise floor.


----------



## mtmercer

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi UFO.  The 789 has tons of gain and will still go nearly to clipping with a 2 V DAC.  What's your DAC/source rms voltage?  And do you use TRS or XLR-4 headphone connection?



With the design optimized for 2V inputs, I presume that is singled ended RCA inputs only.  Is the design also based on a max balanced XLR input voltage of 4V?


----------



## AndrewM888 (Aug 14, 2018)

mtmercer said:


> With the design optimized for 2V inputs, I presume that is singled ended RCA inputs only.  Is the design also based on a max balanced XLR input voltage of 4V?



No, it's a bit different...

In gain = 0dB or -10dB position, to avoid clipping internally the max inputs are 7Vrms for RCA unbal or XLR bal.

In gain = +10dB position, to avoid clipping internally the max inputs are 2.1Vrms for RCA unbal or XLR bal

The architecture treats inputs differentially regardless of unbal or bal.  That's why the max Vin remains the same.


----------



## mtmercer

AndrewM888 said:


> No...
> 
> In gain = 0dB or -10dB position, to avoid clipping internally the max inputs are 7Vrms for RCA unbal or XLR bal.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Anarion

AndrewM888 said:


> Exactly. We added the -10dB gain setting because it's awesome for IEMs.  It permits a large usable range from the volume pot and a really low noise floor.


That would make things much more practical indeed. Since dedicated PC soundcard line-outs pump out 2V (let alone the headphone amp outs), I have always had trouble with the volume control. Currently I'm using low gain on my AE-5 and have set the volume to 18% and I still have to lower the volume further a lot with volume pot (without vol pot I'd have to stick with single digit numbers). It would be the same story with line-out + O2 1x gain mode. While Sabre DACs have pretty great digital volume control but still, this is not optimal...

Negative gain options are great and I wish those would become more popular.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Aug 15, 2018)

i went ahead and ordered a second one im hoping this is a nice as it seems. ill use one at my office and the other with my full complete massdrop stack (so far every product in the housing style) for the price this thing sounds like it may be a killer lower priced amp. i think ill be fine with the change to the gain i dont know though i like both options lol would have been killer just to add the negative option along with the others and adjust the cost a bit.


----------



## ufospls2

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi UFO.  The 789 has tons of gain and will still go nearly to clipping with a 2 V DAC.  What's your DAC/source rms voltage?  And do you use TRS or XLR-4 headphone connection?



My DAC is 3v from the SE outputs, 6v from the XLR, but it can be turned down. I'd be using the 4 pin XLR output. I was thinking of using the amp with really hard to drive headphones, so the high gain was attractive. My old amp had +24db gain as well.


----------



## AndrewM888

ufospls2 said:


> My DAC is 3v from the SE outputs, 6v from the XLR, but it can be turned down. I'd be using the 4 pin XLR output. I was thinking of using the amp with really hard to drive headphones, so the high gain was attractive. My old amp had +24db gain as well.


I recommend using your 6V XLR output (bal XLR is always better) and setting the 789 amp to 0dB gain. Then you'll achieve 6V from amp TRS or 12V from amp XLR4.  Yes that's 1.3dB less than the full 7/14V amp clean capability, but will give you super clean SNR.  And it will be ridiculously loud.


----------



## Por_Tu_Guy

I see these shipped out a week ago any body received their amps yet?
Any impressions to share?


----------



## Baten

Por_Tu_Guy said:


> I see these shipped out a week ago any body received their amps yet?
> Any impressions to share?



https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk#discussions sort by newest


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I got mine on Tuesday and been enjoying the dead quiet aspect and amazing speed on my Auteur's. I having issue with using the balanced XLR input getting a ground hum and not knowing if these new custom interconnect cables have a wiring issue or a problem on outputs on my Topping DX7S . I ordered a pair of XLR interconnects from amazon to see if I still have a ground loop hum. I used high gain on my Auteur's and was at 10-1 o'clock volume position and that was plenty loud. 

The amp is much heavier then I thought and it is put together very well for a $350 amp. 

The amp shipped from New Jersey and I live in Ohio.


----------



## heliosphann

Still waiting for mine to be delivered. Massdrop uses a fleet of giant tortoises to send out their packages.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 25, 2018)

Mine is scheduled for tomorrow.
Edit: actually out for delivery today. Originally scheduled for two days from now. Woohoo!


----------



## heliosphann

Alcophone said:


> Mine is scheduled for tomorrow.
> Edit: actually out for delivery today. Originally scheduled for two days from now. Woohoo!



Yea, mine was too. I'll hook it up tonight when I get home!


----------



## Shredicus

heliosphann said:


> Yea, mine was too. I'll hook it up tonight when I get home!



Lol, the tortoises heard you!


----------



## heliosphann

Got my THX AAA 789 delivered today.

Unfortunately I can't get the unit to power on at all. Went to hook it up and I'm pretty sure the power button is defective. It won't "catch" when you depress it. It just pops right back to it's initial resting place.

Looks like I'll have to wait a little longer... *sigh*


----------



## FunctionalDoc

heliosphann said:


> Got my THX AAA 789 delivered today.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't get the unit to power on at all. Went to hook it up and I'm pretty sure the power button is defective. It won't "catch" when you depress it. It just pops right back to it's initial resting place.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to wait a little longer... *sigh*


Bummer . I guess I am lucky mine is working .


----------



## Daemon Ursus

heliosphann said:


> Got my THX AAA 789 delivered today.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't get the unit to power on at all. Went to hook it up and I'm pretty sure the power button is defective. It won't "catch" when you depress it. It just pops right back to it's initial resting place.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to wait a little longer... *sigh*



The switch doesn't catch, its just a button because it has an auto off setting. Make sure its plugged in properly, and then just fully depress the button, you should get a teeny tiny little red led in the middle of the amp that turns white after a second.


----------



## heliosphann (Oct 25, 2018)

Daemon Ursus said:


> The switch doesn't catch, its just a button because it has an auto off setting. Make sure its plugged in properly, and then just fully depress the button, you should get a teeny tiny little red led in the middle of the amp that turns white after a second.



Ah, thanks. That makes sense.

Well, looks like it's just DOA then. Or possibly the power supply? I might try to test it.


----------



## Alcophone

heliosphann said:


> Got my THX AAA 789 delivered today.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't get the unit to power on at all. Went to hook it up and I'm pretty sure the power button is defective. It won't "catch" when you depress it. It just pops right back to it's initial resting place.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to wait a little longer... *sigh*


Mine is partially borked, too. Often, pressing the button doesn't do anything. Sometimes, toggling the auto off setting helps and the next time the button will turn the unit on, and can turn it off again before refusing to work again. Sometimes, disconnecting and reconnecting the power supply helps, too. Not really consistent.


----------



## Daemon Ursus

heliosphann said:


> Ah, thanks. That makes sense.
> 
> Well, looks like it's just DOA then. Or possibly the power supply? I might try to test it.



Could be the power brick, the amps themselves look like they are fairly well made, but the power brick is pretty plainly just some cheap Chinese one they picked up for as little as possible. I plan on getting a mean well or something to replace it on mine shortly.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Oct 25, 2018)

Daemon Ursus said:


> Could be the power brick, the amps themselves look like they are fairly well made, but the power brick is pretty plainly just some cheap Chinese one they picked up for as little as possible. I plan on getting a mean well or something to replace it on mine shortly.



Do you have  a recommended power brick for this amp ?


----------



## Alcophone

Daemon Ursus said:


> Could be the power brick, the amps themselves look like they are fairly well made, but the power brick is pretty plainly just some cheap Chinese one they picked up for as little as possible. I plan on getting a mean well or something to replace it on mine shortly.


Be careful.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 25, 2018)

What to choose, what to choose...


----------



## Alcophone

Such straight


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

heliosphann said:


> Still waiting for mine to be delivered. Massdrop uses a fleet of giant tortoises to send out their packages.


my first order will be here tomm. i ordered two of them but one was on a later drop. i hate that they use smartpost.

if those tortoises are anything like ours when you feed them you better make sure you are out of the way haha. they are like a toyota corolla with 800 hp under the hood


----------



## Volken

Alcophone said:


> What to choose, what to choose...


Could you someday compare all your amps, very interested how Gustard H20 compares to THX.


----------



## negura (Oct 26, 2018)

I just took delivery. My amplifier came with an US mains plug. After checking the PSU unit it is autoranging so it takes UK/EU voltages. Luckily I had a spare 2 pin power chord around.

To be fair they note this:
US plug; adapter needed for global use

Still, a reminder for non American users.

On first listen the unit seems to operate fine.


----------



## oqvist

Don´t appear to be very thought through and lots of misstakes in the assembly. Just hope mine is alright. I can only hope I get it next week.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

wellll mine is the same as heliospawn. the power button is not working. i get no lights when pressed and no relay click or anything. green led is lit on the power brick and i tested the power brick with my meter its working fine. i got it to come on once and only once. by kind of wiggling the power button and then that was it. now it will not come on at all after that. no smell no smoke etc....this sucks


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I bought new XLR interconnects and the balanced input from DX7S is working with any ground hum or noise . I hope the trend of dead units doesn't continue.


----------



## Alcophone

heliosphann said:


> Unfortunately I can't get the unit to power on at all. Went to hook it up and I'm pretty sure the power button is defective. It won't "catch" when you depress it. It just pops right back to it's initial resting place.





Th3Drizzl3 said:


> wellll mine is the same as heliospawn. the power button is not working. i get no lights when pressed and no relay click or anything. green led is lit on the power brick and i tested the power brick with my meter its working fine. i got it to come on once and only once. by kind of wiggling the power button and then that was it. now it will not come on at all after that. no smell no smoke etc....this sucks



I found a reliable fix for when mine won't turn on: pull the button back. It doesn't seem like it moves, but almost every time I do that, the next press will turn the amp on. Tried that about 25 times now. Fixed it every time but once when I had to repeat it.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

ill have to play with it some more to be sure but i pulled out on the power button and something made a "click" noise like a plastic on spring type noise and now it seems to be turning on and off normally. im not sure yet though im going to use the button a few more days and then decide what to do. they said they would replace it. im annoyed about the gain knob a bit my II setting is also way off from the middle even a bit more then your pic shows.


----------



## tizman

OT OT OT.  I thought this was an impressions thread.  Looks more like the defective power button thread.  Has anyone who has listened to the amp have any listening impressions to share?  A new thread about the power button issue would be in order.  That way, people with that problem can search and find it.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

well one cant give any impressions if the amp will not power on...... i would have had time to listen to it today otherwise. i still think its relevant info and should be in the main thread because so far at least my "impressions" are the amp sucks because for many it has issues. im hoping this fixed the issue who knows.


----------



## kukkurovaca

One of the most useful things about a thread like this is getting a sense of how many people are experiencing serious QC issues, as well as how the vendor handles them.


----------



## heliosphann

I contacted Massdrop late Thursday night and the next day they responded and are getting a replacement to me. Hopefully by the end of next week I'll have a working unit.


----------



## tizman

I still think it would be better to have a thread about the specific issue so that others can easily find it and share their experiences.


----------



## Baten

tizman said:


> I still think it would be better to have a thread about the specific issue so that others can easily find it and share their experiences.


Yes well this is the THX AAA thread, everything will be posted here. Live with it.


----------



## tizman

Baten:  Actually, it's the Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier - Impressions Thread.  Check the title, it's at the top of every page.


----------



## Baten

tizman said:


> Baten:  Actually, it's the Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier - Impressions Thread.  Check the title, it's at the top of every page.


"Impression: my unit arrived with a faulty power button and will not power up, so I could not listen to it. Massdrop promised me a replacement unit."

Your point? Seriously, if there are concerns they will be posted here, it's only expected...


----------



## tizman

My point is that another thread should be started about the issue, so that folks with faulty units can search for it, find it easily and then discuss it there.  This thread should be used for listening impressions.  Does that not make sense?


----------



## sebna

As stated before this is the place for this information. If you do not like it do not read it.

This is part of product life and should be here.


----------



## maxxevv

On a more positive note, the folks at ASR have put it through its paces in terms of measurements and its absolutely stellar! ( At any price point of comparison ... ) 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/


----------



## tizman

sebna:  Good idea.
maxxexx:  Thanks for the link.  I'll check it out


----------



## tizman

Just finished reading the review.  Very impressive.


----------



## Baten

tizman said:


> Just finished reading the review.  Very impressive.


This is the thread for impressions man. I'm not seeing any coming from you.

(not serious here of course: but why the hell can't you tolerate people posting problems, but then proceed to pollute the thread with "thanks for the link" "I finished reading the link" posts which add absolutely nothing to the discussion?? pot, kettle, black)


----------



## matti55

If anyone has or is intending to pair this with an ADI-2 dac, I'd love to hear some impressions.


----------



## tizman

Baten:  You are right.  I got so excited reading some actual listening impressions that I forgot myself.


----------



## Zachik

tizman said:


> Just finished reading the review.  Very impressive.


I agree - very impressive.
For people who like total flat and uncolored amp - this is a very good one!
I had a prototype for a week or so, and was very impressed with its flat and transparent sound.
Personally, not my cup of tea (I like warmer / tubey amps), but great amp never the less


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Zachik said:


> I agree - very impressive.
> For people who like total flat and uncolored amp - this is a very good one!
> I had a prototype for a week or so, and was very impressed with its flat and transparent sound.
> Personally, not my cup of tea (I like warmer / tubey amps), but great amp never the less


That's why my friend I have Glen OTL for tubes and THX for flat as a board solid state sound.


----------



## Zachik

FunctionalDoc said:


> That's why my friend I have Glen OTL for tubes and THX for flat as a board solid state sound.


Hey Doc buddy 
Yeah... after playing with the Glenn OTL at RMAF 3 weeks ago - I am in the process of ordering one, too! 
For me, the THX is too flat, but I can definitely see a big audience who would love it.


----------



## oqvist

tizman said:


> My point is that another thread should be started about the issue, so that folks with faulty units can search for it, find it easily and then discuss it there.  This thread should be used for listening impressions.  Does that not make sense?


I would have trouble finding that because I am part of the massdrop and subscribed to this thread. This is awesome if mine got the same issue. Nothing say only listening impressions and no build quality impressions is allowed.


----------



## redria

matti55 said:


> If anyone has or is intending to pair this with an ADI-2 dac, I'd love to hear some impressions.



Wow, now that would be the perfect combination! You'd definitely have a hard time beating that.


----------



## matti55

redria said:


> Wow, now that would be the perfect combination! You'd definitely have a hard time beating that.



I don't have the ADI-2 but am thinking about getting it. Probably gonna try the built-in amp on out of the box but still am thinking about potential pairings. Given the initial impressions you might be right on that one.


----------



## seslan (Oct 31, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> What to choose, what to choose...



I wonder how Jotunheim and topping dx7 compare to THX in terms of sound. Can you provide some insight?


----------



## Baten

seslan said:


> I wonder how Jotunheim and topping dx7 compare to THX in terms of sound. Can you to prove some insight?



Jotunheim is ass, it is rolled off and sounds just "off". In balanced it has okay power, but for the price THX >>> DX7 (it's ok but cheap cinese made) > Jotunheim (noisy and rolled-off).


----------



## seslan

Baten said:


> Jotunheim is ass, it is rolled off and sounds just "off". In balanced it has okay power, but for the price THX >>> DX7 (it's ok but cheap cinese made) > Jotunheim (noisy and rolled-off).



Thanks for the quick reply! I appreciate it.


----------



## alpovs

seslan said:


> I wonder how Jotunheim and topping dx7 compare to THX in terms of sound. Can you to prove some insight?





Baten said:


> Jotunheim is ass, it is rolled off and sounds just "off". In balanced it has okay power, but for the price THX >>> DX7 (it's ok but cheap cinese made) > Jotunheim (noisy and rolled-off).


@Baten, do you have all three of them? That question was for @Alcophone.


----------



## Alcophone

seslan said:


> I wonder how Jotunheim and topping dx7 compare to THX in terms of sound. Can you to prove some insight?


I only use the DX7s as a DAC and preamp. The few times that I tried its headphone amplifier, I found the sound pretty mediocre, but I also never intended to use it for that, so I didn't try for long. Good enough to burn in headphones, though. 
With both a DX7s and a Jotunheim handy, I'd use the DX7s as a balanced DAC into the Jotunheim. If the choice is between either a DX7s or a Jotunheim with DAC module, I'd go for the Jotunheim. In comparison with the Gustard H20 (with Sparkos SS3602s) I noticed that the Jotunheim flattened the Yggdrasil's sound stage (with my Ether C Flow - the sound stage with Jotunheim and internal DAC module was plenty big when I tried the Sennheiser HD800). Not a problem with the DX7s as a DAC because there the sound stage seemed flat to begin with (even with the H20). I wish I had a pair of HD800 just for sound stage testing. Still unsurpassed in that area.

I haven't spent enough time with the THX amp yet to reach a firm conclusion, but I can give you some impressions (that should make someone here very happy!). With a balanced source and balanced headphones, it's doing a fine job. Clean, full, tight sound. Transients still seem slightly rolled off to me, which can be relaxing, but also takes some of the excitement out of certain recordings, especially with guitars. When I used the iFi micro iDSD as a DAC (i.e. single ended), THX as the amp, and using a single ended cable for my Ether C Flow, I was not happy with the sound. The balanced output with the same DAC and headphones was solid. I have to use it more with my other headphones, I did like what it did to my Focal Listen (single ended only), though I mainly use them straight out of my phone, so any proper amp might impress me with them.

I find it concerning that the THX amp's manual states this:


> CAUTION: Please remember to turn down the volume completely (or power down) before plugging or unplugging any sources or headphones to/from your 789.


That makes proper A/B-ing (with level matching) very tedious at best. It's also very easy to forget. And I can still just barely hear some music playing with the volume all the way down (balanced in, balanced out, medium gain, Ether Flow). Luckily, it has survived all my mishaps so far.


----------



## seslan (Oct 31, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> I only use the DX7s as a DAC and preamp. The few times that I tried its headphone amplifier, I found the sound pretty mediocre, but I also never intended to use it for that, so I didn't try for long. Good enough to burn in headphones, though.
> With both a DX7s and a Jotunheim handy, I'd use the DX7s as a balanced DAC into the Jotunheim. If the choice is between either a DX7s or a Jotunheim with DAC module, I'd go for the Jotunheim. In comparison with the Gustard H20 (with Sparkos SS3602s) I noticed that the Jotunheim flattened the Yggdrasil's sound stage (with my Ether C Flow - the sound stage with Jotunheim and internal DAC module was plenty big when I tried the Sennheiser HD800). Not a problem with the DX7s as a DAC because there the sound stage seemed flat to begin with (even with the H20). I wish I had a pair of HD800 just for sound stage testing. Still unsurpassed in that area.
> 
> I haven't spent enough time with the THX amp yet to reach a firm conclusion, but I can give you some impressions (that should make someone here very happy!). With a balanced source and balanced headphones, it's doing a fine job. Clean, full, tight sound. Transients still seem slightly rolled off to me, which can be relaxing, but also takes some of the excitement out of certain recordings, especially with guitars. When I used the iFi micro iDSD as a DAC (i.e. single ended), THX as the amp, and using a single ended cable for my Ether C Flow, I was not happy with the sound. The balanced output with the same DAC and headphones was solid. I have to use it more with my other headphones, I did like what it did to my Focal Listen (single ended only), though I mainly use them straight out of my phone, so any proper amp might impress me with them.
> ...



Thank you for the explanation.

Reasoning behind the power down rule could be an effort to avoid causing any shorts with 1/4 inch plugs. I've heard stories that this happening to people.

By the way, I apologize to everyone for the typo. "_Can you to prove some insight?" _What the hell was I thinking? lol


----------



## Alcophone

seslan said:


> Reasoning behind the power down rule could be an effort to avoid causing any shorts with 1/4 inch plugs. I've heard stories that this happening to people.


That I could understand, but XLR does not have that problem, yet it's not called out as unproblematic. I suppose in regular use it's not too big a deal, but still risky given how many amps handle this just fine, and old habits die hard.


----------



## oqvist

Booring shopping question. Just curious if any EU customers got their yet? Seems to be boat shopping from germany?


----------



## AndrewM888

Alcophone said:


> That I could understand, but XLR does not have that problem, yet it's not called out as unproblematic. I suppose in regular use it's not too big a deal, but still risky given how many amps handle this just fine, and old habits die hard.



Yes it's no problem to hot plug/unplug 789's XLR-4 headphone cables. 

We recommend pausing the audio whenever plug/unplug 1/4" and 3.5mm TRS since they short T-R or R-S every time a user plugs/unplugs. Due to AAA's miniscule output impedance ~65 mOhms, even a tiny audio signal can cause full current >1A to flow through the short which trips the overcurrent protection, shutting the amp down for a few seconds before auto-rebooting. 

Conventional amps with 1-10 Ohm or higher output impedance don't face this problem. Their output impedance limits the current. But of course, Zout > 1 Ohm isn't optimal for fidelity.


----------



## alpovs

oqvist said:


> Booring shopping question. Just curious if any EU customers got their yet? Seems to be boat shopping from germany?


If the UK is still in EU then yes, this post in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...pressions-thread.873576/page-12#post-14560679


----------



## oqvist

They get it straight from US I believe and not through Germany I guess. Mine has finally cleared the customs so with maximum luck I have it on friday . I just happened to click home a RME ADI-2 DAC. So many useful features in modern dacs my dacs have inputs and a selector for them and power button and that´s it


----------



## negura (Oct 31, 2018)

oqvist said:


> Booring shopping question. Just curious if any EU customers got their yet? Seems to be boat shopping from germany?



I got my amp delivered last Friday. Perfect working condition and great sound. Not quite AHB2 level, but well above the price range imo.


----------



## Alcophone

AndrewM888 said:


> Yes it's no problem to hot plug/unplug 789's XLR-4 headphone cables.



Nice, thank you for clarifying that!



AndrewM888 said:


> We recommend pausing the audio whenever plug/unplug 1/4" and 3.5mm TRS since they short T-R or R-S every time a user plugs/unplugs. Due to AAA's miniscule output impedance ~65 mOhms, even a tiny audio signal can cause full current >1A to flow through the short which trips the overcurrent protection, shutting the amp down for a few seconds before auto-rebooting.



Pausing the audio is certainly less of a hassle than adjusting the volume or turning it off. Good to know that that is good enough!



AndrewM888 said:


> Conventional amps with 1-10 Ohm or higher output impedance don't face this problem. Their output impedance limits the current. But of course, Zout > 1 Ohm isn't optimal for fidelity.



The Schiit Jotunheim is specified as having < 0.1 ohms output impedance, but does not come with such a warning. But maybe it should, who knows. 

The Gustard H20 also has < 0.1 ohms output impedance (as per their revised specs). However, it does not even have a manual that could warn me, so who knows. :-D

It's a good precaution, I suppose. And in its best mode (balanced) it's optional, so that's great.


----------



## heliosphann

Got my replacement and it powered up just fine!

Been listening to it for the last hour and it's certainly preforming as advertised. Very transparent and powerful. Especially seems to like being paired up with my Yggdrasil, which gives it some extra punch and musicality.


----------



## oqvist (Nov 5, 2018)

Edit: Panicked got it working. Seems my us to eu adapter is borderline getting connection but it´s working fine now.

Surely appear to drive my Audeze LCD-2 just fine balanced. It´s my absolute favourite headphone so really important. Will have to wait but feels I can do without my bulky Yamaha RDS-440 receiver now.


----------



## Alcophone (Nov 5, 2018)

oqvist said:


> So frustrating... Waiting over 2 weeks for it to ship and now it don´t power on. The brick reads green so it seems to be on the amp side. The power connector fit really loose so maybe something there broken? I read you should pull the power button but I can´t pull mine out at all?


Pulling still helps. My power button doesn't seem to move either when I pull it, but something gets unstuck anyway. It doesn't move, I don't feel anything getting released, there's no particular sound to it... but it works most of the time.

Contact Massdrop support, I got the option to return it for a full refund, exchange it for a new one, or keep it for a 20% discount.


----------



## oqvist

Alcophone said:


> Pulling still helps. My power button doesn't seem to move either when I pull it, but something gets unstuck anyway. It doesn't move, I don't feel anything getting released, there's no particular sound to it... but it works most of the time.
> 
> Contact Massdrop support, I got the option to return it for a full refund, exchange it for a new one, or keep it for a 20% discount.



Thanks. I hope it was just my adapter but time will tell. I got it working and boy it´s exactly what I hoped for for my Audeze LCD-2. Similar balance as my yamaha RDS-440 but cleaner and absolute blackness. And it seem to have enough oomph in balanced mode to drive it to it´s full potential.

The only thing the noise of the yamaha can somehow sound more analogue and natural I suppose and it adds maybe some warmth so will see what happens but now it seems I can replace it and never look back. But time will tell when they honeymoon period is over.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Nov 5, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Pulling still helps. My power button doesn't seem to move either when I pull it, but something gets unstuck anyway. It doesn't move, I don't feel anything getting released, there's no particular sound to it... but it works most of the time.
> 
> Contact Massdrop support, I got the option to return it for a full refund, exchange it for a new one, or keep it for a 20% discount.


curious what you decided to do with them? i sent another message because mine is acting up again. its the button for sure. one thing i also dont like is if you look after a number of presses you can see the sides of the button start to get a bit scratched. at least mine did. it doesnt sit perfectly centered and is rubbing on the left side when pressed. bummer because it sounds really very very good when i can get it to power on. i also have a very low serial number which i personally like but id rather i think have a working unit. lol


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> curious what you decided to do with them?


I ended up giving mine to @CEE TEE so they can take a look.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

imo its a bad design with the button like that i would have far preff an actual click. even if it doesnt stay pressed down a nice click would at least (usually) let me know the mechanism is making contact in there. im going to have to ask for a replacement i cant deal with a 350$ product that only works 25% of the time lol


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Hey yall,

I know this is the thread for the massdrop amp, but since I was looking for a more early solution to my lack of good SS amp, I wanted to ask about the amp on Monoprice's site. 

Does anyone know if Monoprice has website wide sales? For instance, do you think they might mark down their thx balanced Dac/amp on Black Friday?


----------



## Baten

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I know this is the thread for the massdrop amp, but since I was looking for a more early solution to my lack of good SS amp, I wanted to ask about the amp on Monoprice's site.
> 
> Does anyone know if Monoprice has website wide sales? For instance, do you think they might mark down their thx balanced Dac/amp on Black Friday?



Their THX items are brand new. The desktop amp is still unreleased, the portable thx amp released some days ago.

In general, items than are brand spanking new will not be discounted. There was a sale some days ago (NOV sale) and none of the new items were discounted. Just doesn't make a lot of sense business-wise.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 9, 2018)

Just got my THX AAA amp today. I've only been listening to it for an hour or so, but my initial impressions are very positive. The first thing I noticed about the amp was that it seems to reproduce treble in a way that while being clear and pronounced, there is somehow no harshness or discomfort from it. Many amps that I've experienced in the past whether home theater or head fi always seemed to be a turn off since I get discomfort from pronounced treble reproduction. This THX AAA amp is the first amp I've ever heard that gives me no discomfort at fairly loud volumes while not being warm. Granted I probably listen to lower volumes than most as I have been using 3 headphones with it so far all SE on lowest gain .33x and  have not needed to get past 2:00 on my most power hungry hifiman he-400i planars.

I would say that the advertisement of this amp being a "super o2 amp" is accurate. The only real difference I notice between my massdrop o2 amp and this one is that there is maybe a bit more dynamic range with the AAA and the treble characteristics that I mentioned earlier. This is the biggest positive for me since I've in the past hated amps advertised as "transparent" like my magni 3 for instance as they just seem to be grainy and harsh. The o2 amp was better than the magni 3, but it would still get a bit shrill to me if you got more greedy for volume. So far this has not been the case with the AAA amp. I'm waiting on a balanced cable for my HD6XX and am looking at my options for my Audeze LCD2C in cables as well. I'm looking forward to testing the difference with balanced vs not as the crosstalk and power ratings look way better. I wonder if I'll actually hear a difference? I'm usually skeptical about these things, but it is possible to change my mind as well due to past experience.


The headphones I've used with the amp so far are Sennheiser  HD558 with 598cs earpad mod, Hifiman he-400i with Dekoni fenestrated lambskin pad mod, and stock Audeze LCD2C. These three headphones all paired well with the AAA amp and the Topping D50 dac I'm using as a source. I've not hooked up my HD6XX yet to listen, but will some time later as well. Sound stage and dynamics are only helped with this amp and there does not seem to be any negative aspects introduced to the music in my opinion. My final thoughts are that I would recommend this amp to anyone that is looking for a powerful and dynamic amp that has great bass and very clear and pronounced treble without becoming fatiguing. This amp is an objectivist with sensitive ears' dream. As far as build quality goes I've not experienced any problem with the power button yet as it seems to be lined up correctly. The gain button selector on my unit also lines up properly. The pass through works and is nice since it passes through all the time whether the unit is powered on or off. This lets me quickly switch between speakers and headphones without unplugging or powering off anything. Just turn the volume down on the hp amp, and turn the volume up on my jds labs passive preamp to use my power amp and speakers. Or you if you are really feeling randy, just listen to the headphones ad speakers at the same time? Sacrilege? I hope everyone who decides to get one of these has the same initial experience as me. Great product for a reasonable price 



Edit:  I just tried the Massdrop Senneiser Hd6XX with the thx 789 and in SE with the stock cord they are my favorite headphones with the topping and thx amp. This pairing gets my top recommendation. I'm really glad I've got a balanced cable for the hd6xx on the way now!


----------



## oqvist

Some days in and yes it´s a good amp for sure. And no issues at all just my us to euro power adapter surely. It don´t discriminate any of my headphones but Focal Elear still just must have my Trafomatic Audio Head One. It´s a mediocer headphone on anything else but still for solid state the THX 789 is the best try so far for it.

Another tricky headphone that needs control is the DX 1000 and yes it works sublime here. Strong competitor to my Goldpoint Headphone Pro. I dare not to say what is better or worse yet. 

Sennheiser HD 800S. Here I am quite sure this is number one. I didn´t expect this I expected to preferr my Trafomatic Audio Head One maybe it´s the smooth treble that hugs the ears some more that make it work better for me I don´t know. 

Audeze LCD-2 in balanced mode I can´t dream of it being underpowered either. It goes toe to toe with my giant killer. My Yamaha RDS-440 for 20$. I would say the RDS-440 do have a more natural tone to it. THX 789 comes across as a bit of modern digital sound but will see once I got used to it. That digital sound do sound expensive most of the time


----------



## sonance

Are the Monoprice/Massdrop and Benchmark amps the only THX amps announced so far? I'm curious to see if anyone else will be making THX 888 amps in particular.


----------



## CoFire

Anybody have comparisons of this amp against the Massdrop LCX, Grace m9XX or Gilmore Lite MKII?


----------



## Baten

CoFire said:


> Anybody have comparisons of this amp against the Massdrop LCX, Grace m9XX or Gilmore Lite MKII?



The only one that might be on the same level is the Gillmore, but the THX smokes them all in terms of power. If you need stupid amounts of power definitely get the THX.

The LCX is only good via balanced, it's simply bad in single ended. As an amp it sounds more warm and bassy, not exactly neutral.


----------



## CoFire

Anyone with a Gilmore Lite MKII comparison. I think I read some chatter about a balanced Gilmore Lite Mark II coming out in the future, is this amp comparable to what that might look like? Coming in at less than the Gilmore Lite MkII even. 

This amp perks my interest but at the same time, "Super O2" gives me am expectation of something cold and analytical.


----------



## 2323

CoFire said:


> Anybody have comparisons of this amp against the Massdrop LCX, Grace m9XX or Gilmore Lite MKII?



The most obvious difference between the m9XX and the THX AAA 789 would be the noise floor with IEMs where the m9XX is kind of unusable (my opinion) with something sensitive like a Noble K10U without something like an IEMatch as opposed to the THX which is silent (or close to it)

Take the following with the usual grain of salt since the test was sighted and I usually use the m9XX with different headphones than the THX (+Eitr+Modi2U). I can try to test something specific if I have it.

My subjective opinion comparing with a HD800SDR (single ended) between the m9XX (F1 filter = sharp rolloff, linear phase, Volume = 55~65 for 1/4" or 90 for lineout) alone versus adding THX AAA 789 as its amp is that the THX seems to have better sub bass transients and impact, slightly smoother highs (not less detailed; female vocals and cymbals slightly sibilant with the m9XX alone had less of an edge with the THX), and better separation and less intimate soundstage, but perhaps overall the differences weren't huge. Testing with a LCD2C, similar comments but I would need to do more testing to speak specifically (not sure the m9XX was handling higher volumes well with the LCD2C).

Aside from sound impressions, I quite like the THX AAA 789 as it has no major usability issues compared to certain other amps (ZDT Jr's transformer noise or Magni3's terrible pot or m9XX's noise floor) though some pot imbalance near the bottom of its range is present in my unit, but at least it can be offset using the -10dB gain switch.​


CoFire said:


> This amp perks my interest but at the same time, "Super O2" gives me am expectation of something cold and analytical.



I wouldn't say it is cold but it is definitely not biased warm (or with 2nd order harmonic distortion for low frequencies) like some amps. I have never heard the O2 so can't comment on that.


----------



## Zachik

CoFire said:


> Anyone with a Gilmore Lite MKII comparison. I think I read some chatter about a balanced Gilmore Lite Mark II coming out in the future, is this amp comparable to what that might look like? Coming in at less than the Gilmore Lite MkII even.


Gilmore is coming out soon with "GS-X Mini" which is essentially a balanced version of Gilmore Lite Mk 2 + more power + other improvements / enhancements.
The GS-X Mini was at their table during RMAF last month. GREAT amp!
@kevin gilmore / @HeadAmpTeam can provide more info, although maybe this thread is not the right place for that discussion


----------



## BrotherKathos

Hello everyone. I've got a question I was hoping someone here could answer. If I'm using a source dac that only has rca outs, can I still get output from the balanced headphone jack? I'm assuming that you can, but has anyone here tried. I'm a bit curious since I read in the user manual that the balanced input is disconnected from the SE line out.


----------



## Alcophone

BrotherKathos said:


> Hello everyone. I've got a question I was hoping someone here could answer. If I'm using a source dac that only has rca outs, can I still get output from the balanced headphone jack? I'm assuming that you can, but has anyone here tried. I'm a bit curious since I read in the user manual that the balanced input is disconnected from the SE line out.


Yes, all outputs are active regardless of the selected input.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Alcophone said:


> Yes, all outputs are active regardless of the selected input.


Thank you! I've got some balanced cables on the way for my he-400i and hd6XX and was hoping I did not have to switch dacs to use them. I'm having a hard time deciding which headphone I like better with the thx 789 right now. 

Its strange, but I seem to get a bigger sound stage out of my 400i vs the hd6xx. I've always heard the sound stage is weaker on planars, but in at least two of my rigs that is not the case. One being a LCD2C with schiit mimby and asgard 2 combo. And the 2nd being the thx 789 with topping D50 and he-400i. The 400i does have the Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin pads so that might be affecting it a bit, but both setups give a better sound stage with the planars. The only rig I have that is better wit the HD6xx is the magni 3 and Loki with SMSL SU-8 setup.


----------



## Baten

BrotherKathos said:


> Its strange, but I seem to get a bigger sound stage out of my 400i vs the hd6xx.



Not so strange. The HD6xx sound super natural in timbre and very relaxing, but their sound stage is really just flat/in-your-head. It's probably their main disadvantage.


----------



## Nosaj1969

I'm very impressed with this amplifier.  I have an Audio-gd balanced amplifier, and can honestly say that I like this one better!  It was about double the price, and I think there isn't anything I've heard at the price point of this amplifier that will outdo it.  Wonderful soundstage and openness.  Love it.


----------



## Den Sol

Just received mine last Friday.  Used it with my HD6XX single ended for a brief listen, sound is quite clean and responsive, it feels like the amp is transparent like it disappears from the chain, which I like.


----------



## Baten

Den Sol said:


> Just received mine last Friday.  Used it with my HD6XX single ended for a brief listen, sound is quite clean and responsive, it feels like the amp is transparent like it disappears from the chain, which I like.



That is the point  power with no color. Few amps achieve this honestly. Just "wire with gain".


----------



## CoFire (Nov 12, 2018)

Nosaj1969 said:


> I'm very impressed with this amplifier.  I have an Audio-gd balanced amplifier, and can honestly say that I like this one better!  It was about double the price, and I think there isn't anything I've heard at the price point of this amplifier that will outdo it.  Wonderful soundstage and openness.  Love it.



Which Audio GD balanced amp are you referring to? Any more comparisons? Eager ears and eyes awaiting impressions.

I heard someone mention these might not pair well with HEX or HEK, glad to see the HD6XX users giving some nods of approval.


----------



## Nosaj1969

CoFire said:


> Which Audio GD balanced amp are you referring to? Any more comparisons? Eager ears and eyes awaiting impressions.
> 
> I heard someone mention these might not pair well with HEX or HEK, glad to see the HD6XX users giving some nods of approval.




I have several other amps, here is the list:
Audio-gd NFB-1 
Massdrop Alex Cavalli CTH
Massdrop Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon X
Massdrop x THX AAA 789
Schiit Vali 2
S.M.S.L sAp-9 
Schiit Jotunheim 
Massdrop Objective 2 
I also have an S.M.S.L SH-8 on order, and can't wait to use that with my second SU-8 at work.....

For Dacs I have: 
Audio-gd R2R 1 
Schiit Modi Multibit
2- Grace SDACs
2- S.M.S.L SU-8s

Headphones:
Focal Massdrop Elex
Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed
Audeeze Sine Closed (work headphones)
Hifiman Massdrop HE4XX
Sennheiser Massdrop HD-6XX
Sennheiser HD-600
AKG Massdrop K7XX
AKG K533 Pro Studio Monitor 
Monoprice M1060
Monoprice M560

So far, I've only listened to it for a couple hours using my Focal Elex.  I'll post my views shortly, but more listening first!


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Nov 13, 2018)

So I just saw that the THX 789 is back on massdrop with immediate shipping, (as always..). But my question is, why would I buy this over the thx via Monoprice which includes a balanced dac for less $$ than you could possibly find a balanced dac to compliment the massdrop THX? Are there any cheap balanced DAC's that you all think are worth pairing with the THX 789?

Does anyone have thoughts about the balanced Sdac (which i dunno where to find at the moment) vs a dual AKM that (i think) is used in the Monoprice THX amp?


----------



## Nosaj1969

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> So I just saw that the THX 789 is back on massdrop with immediate shipping, (as always..). But my question is, why would I buy this over the thx via Monoprice which includes a balanced dac for less $$ than you could possibly find a balanced dac to compliment the massdrop THX? Are there any cheap balanced DAC's that you all think are worth pairing with the THX 789?
> 
> Does anyone have thoughts about the balanced Sdac (which i dunno where to find at the moment) vs a dual AKM that (i think) is used in the Monoprice THX amp?


I would strongly recommend the SMSL SU-8.  It's exceptionally good and $200 on Massdrop when they have them available.  Otherwise, $250 direct from China.  It's Dual Mono which I believe will make it a better choice than the SDAC.  I don't trust that the Balanced version of the SDAC will outperform it, and you won't have the full feature set as well.  Comparing directly through a/b switch from my Audio-GD R2R 1 and the SU-8, the difference is almost negligible.  The Audio-gd has a bit more transparency, but both are in the same class I would say.  For $50 more than the SDAC, I think it's your best choice up to the $800 range for a balanced DAC. Bargain.


----------



## alpovs

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> So I just saw that the THX 789 is back on massdrop *with immediate shipping, (as always..)*.


Was it a sarcasm? The last two drops had half-year waiting time.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Nov 13, 2018)

alpovs said:


> Was it a sarcasm? The last two drops had half-year waiting time.



I am referring to how once they finally ship they bring it back for next day shipping, negating any reason for people to wait for 6 months in the first place.



Nosaj1969 said:


> I would strongly recommend the SMSL SU-8.  It's exceptionally good and $200 on Massdrop when they have them available.  Otherwise, $250 direct from China.  It's Dual Mono which I believe will make it a better choice than the SDAC.  I don't trust that the Balanced version of the SDAC will outperform it, and you won't have the full feature set as well.  Comparing directly through a/b switch from my Audio-GD R2R 1 and the SU-8, the difference is almost negligible.  The Audio-gd has a bit more transparency, but both are in the same class I would say.  For $50 more than the SDAC, I think it's your best choice up to the $800 range for a balanced DAC. Bargain.



I have seem this dac in my searches, however I will say the Monoprice THX AKM's operate in Dual Mono as well..

This is merely to play devil's advocate and promote the very low asking price of $449 to have it all in one box.


----------



## alpovs (Nov 13, 2018)

This time it's a very strange drop. Only for 24hr and immediate shipping. Are they selling the repaired units that some people had to send them back? They say 480 units are available but it looks like they just didn't edit the description from last drop. Are they hoping to sell 480 units in 24 hours?..

EDIT:


BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I am referring to how once they finally ship they bring it back for next day shipping, negating any reason for people to wait for 6 months in the first place.


I guess I stayed away from MassDrop for too long. Indeed, I see they now have many products with immediate shipping and 24hr duration which I presume restarts every day. Wow! Even the HD6XX is like this. I remember I had to wait for these for months.


----------



## floppiness

I picked one up due to the glowing reviews and low cost. Hopefully they aren’t repaired units... :/


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Nov 13, 2018)

mine better be a new unit. i had to finally send mine back and im still waiting for a replacement. and also waiting for the second unit i ordered from the second big drop they had. im a bit annoyed at this point honestly. i paid for 2 new units and i will meticulously look them both over and make sure i dont see any signs of handling or repair just to be sure. ill be getting the monoprice unit also and most likely if they compare well enough to the massdrop ill prob sell one of my massdrop unit and have one of each.


----------



## Voxata

I bought one. Will open it up upon receipt to verify if it is repaired / etc.


----------



## heliosphann

Pretty sure they're all new guys. I think they have to specify if they are refurbs or open boxes.

Maybe @CEE TEE can chime in?


----------



## Voxata

I received an LCX that has hand soldering on a component so.. you never know. Repaired doesn't always mean a customer touched it. By the way, my LCX has always performed flawlessly. I've come to trust in massdrop.


----------



## kukkurovaca

I believe they normally produce quantity in excess of what customers ordered on the initial drop, so that they will have spares for warrantee replacement.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Nosaj1969 said:


> I have several other amps, here is the list:
> Audio-gd NFB-1
> Massdrop Alex Cavalli CTH
> Massdrop Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon X
> ...



Nfb1 amp vs 789 thoughts?


----------



## Voxata

I'm pretty sure this is currently the best measuring dedicated amp I know of. AudioGD I 'hear' is a syrupy-warm signature. Subjectively, who knows.. That is up to you to decide. At this price the performance is off the charts. I doubt this 1day ship drop will last very long.


----------



## alpovs (Nov 13, 2018)

Voxata said:


> I doubt this 1day ship drop will last very long.


Apparently it became permanent. They changed the message about available 480 units to this:
"Note: This item is in stock and will ship within 1 business day. Your payment method will be charged 2 hours after joining. Cancellations are accepted until that time. The drop will launch and end each day to collect purchases."

In the past 7 hours they sold roughly 70 units.


----------



## Voxata

Yes, but this is the generic statement they put on all their ship right away drops until it sells out. If they had enough I'm sure they would have shipped all of the Febuary drop buyers? Who knows.


----------



## Nosaj1969

alphanumerix1 said:


> Nfb1 amp vs 789 thoughts?


I'm planning to spend some extended time with it this weekend, but my initial impression is that I like it about as much as I do my Audio-gd.  The Audio-gd is great, but I have a problem with it and my Focal Elex for some reason, and i've only listened to the 789 with the Elex so far.  One of the main reasons I bought the other Massdrop amps as well as the THX AAA 789.   I think the THX AAA 789 has much greater transparency than the Cavalli's, is less veiled and more resolving.  Also seems to have more punch.  At this price point, there isn't anything I think is better that I've heard.  It's a beast.  I love the Elex paired with all three of the Massdrop amps, but this one is certainly special.  

I also received a pair of the closed back Focal Elegia's today (Can't wait to see them!) to try out for a week as part of the loaner program @TTVJAudio is hosting.  Should be a better headphone to do a direct comparison with my Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed on the NFB-1 so long as I don't get the distortion like I do on the Elex.  Either way, I plan to give both a direct comparison using multiple DACs and headphones, and I'll post the impressions here after the week with the Elegia's is up!


----------



## Nosaj1969

Voxata said:


> I'm pretty sure this is currently the best measuring dedicated amp I know of. AudioGD I 'hear' is a syrupy-warm signature. Subjectively, who knows.. That is up to you to decide. At this price the performance is off the charts. I doubt this 1day ship drop will last very long.


Agreed.  The Audio-gd is great, but different and as you say it's always subjective.  Also agree that I think you are going to be hard pressed at this price point for a better amp out there fully balanced, and that's just after only a brief period of listening to it.


----------



## alphanumerix1 (Nov 14, 2018)

Nosaj1969 said:


> I'm planning to spend some extended time with it this weekend, but my initial impression is that I like it about as much as I do my Audio-gd.  The Audio-gd is great, but I have a problem with it and my Focal Elex for some reason, and i've only listened to the 789 with the Elex so far.  One of the main reasons I bought the other Massdrop amps as well as the THX AAA 789.   I think the THX AAA 789 has much greater transparency than the Cavalli's, is less veiled and more resolving.  Also seems to have more punch.  At this price point, there isn't anything I think is better that I've heard.  It's a beast.  I love the Elex paired with all three of the Massdrop amps, but this one is certainly special.
> 
> I also received a pair of the closed back Focal Elegia's today (Can't wait to see them!) to try out for a week as part of the loaner program @TTVJAudio is hosting.  Should be a better headphone to do a direct comparison with my Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed on the NFB-1 so long as I don't get the distortion like I do on the Elex.  Either way, I plan to give both a direct comparison using multiple DACs and headphones, and I'll post the impressions here after the week with the Elegia's is up!



Strange from my listen (albeit brief) I didnt notice distortion with the elex and nfb1. Look forward to some detailed impressions of the 789 vs nfb1 etc


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

How is the single-ended vs the XLR? I've read that LCX Single ended is quite inferior to it's XLR output (balanced or unbalanced). I'm not buying an XLR for all my headphones, so does anyone think the THX isn't worth using only Single ended?


----------



## Gavin C4

Does anyone have impression of this amp with Focal Utopia? I wonder does it pairs well.


----------



## Voxata (Nov 13, 2018)

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> How is the single-ended vs the XLR? I've read that LCX Single ended is quite inferior to it's XLR output (balanced or unbalanced). I'm not buying an XLR for all my headphones, so does anyone think the THX isn't worth using only Single ended?



There's measurements out there showing SE and BAL identical in performance on the THX. Cavalli uses an opamp deal or "phase splitter" in fancy talk to bridge SE and BAL. I do not like my LCX using SE in or out. Using full BAL it's the best listening experience I've had while listening at low levels. Will see how the THX fares.

Ref: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

If you look a page or two in the SE is measured.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Voxata said:


> There's measurements out there showing them identical in performance on the THX. Cavalli uses an opamp deal or "phase splitter" in fancy talk to bridge SE and BAL. I do not like my LCX using SE.. that's for sure.
> 
> Ref: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
> 
> If you look a page or two in the SE is measured.



Oh this is very interesting. thanks for the link and the personal testimony haha.


----------



## CEE TEE

heliosphann said:


> Pretty sure they're all new guys. I think they have to specify if they are refurbs or open boxes.
> 
> Maybe @CEE TEE can chime in?


Hi heliosphann,
Definitely new units!  Not refurbs or open boxes.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Anyone know how this compares to the Project Ember II? Thinking of getting this as a replacement for that.


----------



## Voxata

These are two very different amps. Depends if you like tube flavor or not. I'm a SS fan so.. this amp looks like a dream come true on paper.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Hmm, what everyone's saying is they seem to compliment each other so I might just keep the Ember II...


----------



## Voxata

BucketInABucket said:


> Hmm, what everyone's saying is they seem to compliment each other so I might just keep the Ember II...



These are two very different amps. I'd be getting the 789 out of the two without any hesitation based on specs alone.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Voxata said:


> These are two very different amps. I'd be getting the 789 out of the two without any hesitation based on specs alone.


I already have the Ember from a few years ago, pondering on whether I should sell it or not tbh


----------



## oqvist

BucketInABucket said:


> I already have the Ember from a few years ago, pondering on whether I should sell it or not tbh


Keep it if you are happy with it?


----------



## BucketInABucket

oqvist said:


> Keep it if you are happy with it?


Money is a bit tight, sadly!


----------



## smallcaps

BucketInABucket said:


> Money is a bit tight, sadly!


If you're going to own only one amp, make it SS. Build a good sounding reference system you can live with, then expand to more esoteric gear like tubes. My vote is to sell the ember, imho.


----------



## t4t3r

Love my A100 but I have a feeling I’ll be hitting the Join button before the MD timer flips over to the next day...


----------



## Lasakro

Does anyone have a link to the balanced output pin-outs? I need to make a cable before the amp arrives.


----------



## BucketInABucket

smallcaps said:


> If you're going to own only one amp, make it SS. Build a good sounding reference system you can live with, then expand to more esoteric gear like tubes. My vote is to sell the ember, imho.


I plan to possibly downsize my dac too, currently have a theta dspro basic iiia...


----------



## rkw

Lasakro said:


> Does anyone have a link to the balanced output pin-outs? I need to make a cable before the amp arrives.


http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2016/02/headphone-connectors-pins-pinouts-for.html


----------



## Alcophone

Good news on the button issue! I was told that the amp has a protective circuit that makes the button unresponsive for five seconds after pushing it. And waiting long enough between using the button indeed restores its functionality for me. It seems that pulling the button simply increases the likelihood of waiting long enough between button pushes.

This could definitely be indicated much more clearly, though with regular use it's probably a non-issue. Turn it on, use it for a long time, turn it off.


----------



## oqvist

Wait you didnt even wait 2 seconds for it to switch on before you tried again and thus switched it off?


----------



## smallcaps

Anyone running the 789 with the SU-8? Impressions and comparisons would be greatly appreciated. Cheers


----------



## Alcophone

oqvist said:


> Wait you didnt even wait 2 seconds for it to switch on before you tried again and thus switched it off?


In normal use, I did, but not when I was trying to figure out whether the button works after reading about issues here (which was before I received mine).


----------



## Nosaj1969

Lasakro said:


> Does anyone have a link to the balanced output pin-outs? I need to make a cable before the amp arrives.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Gavin C4 said:


> Does anyone have impression of this amp with Focal Utopia? I wonder does it pairs well.


First time I heard this combo I was floored by the resolution and clarity on display. The THX doesn’t add much in terms of depth of sound or expand the Utopia’s somewhat limited soundstage however the imaging is spot on. There’s definite synergy between the Utopia and the THX. My strong first impression (for a minute I was wondering if the THX could replace my HPA V281 in my chain!) has cooled a bit but I still think the THX makes a good solid state pairing with the Utopias. I’d avoid dacs that add too much brightness to the chain though as both of the Utopias and the THX lean toward that end of the spectrum. I’d also make sure to have a balanced cable on hand to take advantage of the extra power the THX offers through that output. Overall though, a very clean, engaging sound that I’d recommend to Utopia owners. Especially for the price!


----------



## Nosaj1969

smallcaps said:


> Anyone running the 789 with the SU-8? Impressions and comparisons would be greatly appreciated. Cheers


I have this combo.  It's excellent.  I'm using a Litte Bear switch to allow me to A/B between my Audio-gd R2R 1 and the SU-8.  The sound is very comparable, the Audio-gd is better overall mainly in transparency and openness, but at 1/3 the price I don't think you'll find better in a balanced DAC.  It's pretty exceptional.  I bought two actually so that I can enjoy one at work!  It will definitely be better I than the balanced SDAC which is not dual mono.  Also, you get the added abilities for the SU-8 llike filters and volume control via the remote, although I have not played at all with the different sound filters. 

Good luck to you!


----------



## snip3r77

Malcolm Riverside said:


> First time I heard this combo I was floored by the resolution and clarity on display. The THX doesn’t add much in terms of depth of sound or expand the Utopia’s somewhat limited soundstage however the imaging is spot on. There’s definite synergy between the Utopia and the THX. My strong first impression (for a minute I was wondering if the THX could replace my HPA V281 in my chain!) has cooled a bit but I still think the THX makes a good solid state pairing with the Utopias. I’d avoid dacs that add too much brightness to the chain though as both of the Utopias and the THX lean toward that end of the spectrum. I’d also make sure to have a balanced cable on hand to take advantage of the extra power the THX offers through that output. Overall though, a very clean, engaging sound that I’d recommend to Utopia owners. Especially for the price!



What is the THX soung signature?


----------



## Oublie

Got my new toy first comparisons show it to be flat as a pancake and essentially a wire with gain I doubt there will be a better bargain out in headfi land for a while. I need a better dac lol.  BTW anyone know where I can find cases the same size and style I want to build a switching matrix for all my gear and possibly linear psu's?


----------



## alphanumerix1

Does the 789 have any sound sig?


----------



## oqvist

alphanumerix1 said:


> Does the 789 have any sound sig?


This is impossible to say. But it works splendid with a wide range of headphones so doubt it has any major colourations.

It kind of feels like it has someone kind of velvet filter there is no sharpness anywhere particularly on my rme adi-2 at default settings. Maybe the error corrections in the works


----------



## Oublie

No sound sig I. E. Flat.  Watch the volume control I've been listening to mine for about 8 hours on and off with different headphones and musical styles and I've had to stop myself turning it up several times im guessing it's because the sound is so clean, loving it.


----------



## snip3r77

Oublie said:


> No sound sig I. E. Flat.  Watch the volume control I've been listening to mine for about 8 hours on and off with different headphones and musical styles and I've had to stop myself turning it up several times im guessing it's because the sound is so clean, loving it.



no bass????


----------



## Oublie

snip3r77 said:


> no bass????


Yeah all the bass your music provides


----------



## alphanumerix1

flat sound sounds similar to my nfb1amp.

I would assume this amp measures better than the audiogd but would probably be redundant in my setup.

Still would like to compare it.


----------



## tdogzthmn (Nov 20, 2018)

floppiness said:


> I picked one up due to the glowing reviews and low cost. Hopefully they aren’t repaired units... :/



These are definitely not rework or resold units.

The shipping time is low on these units because they are part of a large batch that went directly into the store. 

Typically the first drops are smaller batches and would not be available for immediate shipping.


----------



## xLoud

Anyone using single ended DAC with this amp? Any suggestion on budget DAC?


----------



## Baten

xLoud said:


> Anyone using single ended DAC with this amp? Any suggestion on budget DAC?


SDAC!!


----------



## vldom

Hello everyone! 
What do you think about of pairing this amp and AKG K812? Is it a good idea? 
Thanks!


----------



## jcadduono

xLoud said:


> Anyone using single ended DAC with this amp? Any suggestion on budget DAC?


I looked around for something a bit better measuring than the SDAC but still cheaper than the THX 789 itself that also had 32/384 support and SPDIF optical input (for use with headphone surround sound for gaming via SoundBlaster) and landed on the Topping D50.
IMO it fits well with this amp as they both set out to achieve the same goal - insanely good linear technical specs for cheap.
It is single ended so you'd be connecting them via RCA. With the single-endedness you'd best use a very short interconnect though.

This stack is replacing my NFB-28.38! It feels good to have my desk space back.


----------



## Baten

@jcadduono or the Khadas Tone Board on the cheap 

D50 is no longer cheap really hehe.


----------



## Oublie

I looked at the topping d50 and smsl su8. I wanted to use balanced and have a remote for all my amps etc so I went with the smsl. It has a clipping issue if the volume is increased above about - 8 dB but since I'll be maxing the pots on all my amps and using the smsl as the only volume control I doubt if I'll ever have it anywhere near the clipping point. D50 is technically better, su8 gives you balanced and remote, priced about the same


----------



## CoFire

xLoud said:


> Anyone using single ended DAC with this amp? Any suggestion on budget DAC?



Gonna try out the Grace m9XX. Probably much higher priced than desired and SE, but it's a great DAC. Also gonna try using an LG V30+ as a source. 

Gonna be browsing for a balanced DAC but for now, not in a big rush. I'll wait for that irresistible deal/option to present itself.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 18, 2018)

xLoud said:


> Anyone using single ended DAC with this amp? Any suggestion on budget DAC?


I think the D50 is awsome with the 789. Better than all my other dacs. If you only want to spend $99 on dac then the modi 3 is also a gret choice if you can get over the color mismatch. Its virtually identical to the D50 for a few differences like bass and spacial imaging being ever so very slightly better on the D50. Hope this helps


----------



## areek

To those who have this amp and have experience with the audio gd r2r 11, I have a question.

I am planning to make a purchase and use these with the line out of my R2R11/Bifrost. Both are single ended DACs. I will be using the LCD-2 with the setup. I have heard that the amp in the r2r11 is the bottleneck and a better amp very much complements the r2r dac inside. So would it be a good choice to get this as a separate amp?

(I have the bifrost for my speaker setup currently and r2r11 as headamp. I could switch between both)

Thanks.


----------



## heliosphann

areek said:


> To those who have this amp and have experience with the audio gd r2r 11, I have a question.
> 
> I am planning to make a purchase and use these with the line out of my R2R11/Bifrost. Both are single ended DACs. I will be using the LCD-2 with the setup. I have heard that the amp in the r2r11 is the bottleneck and a better amp very much complements the r2r dac inside. So would it be a good choice to get this as a separate amp?
> 
> ...



I had the R2R11 for awhile and I think it'd be a good pairing with the 789. I also felt the amp was a weak point of the R2R11, although for the price you could just consider it as an added feature. I've found the musicality of a ladder DAC makes a great compliment to the uncolored presentation of the 789.


----------



## Baten

heliosphann said:


> I had the R2R11 for awhile and I think it'd be a good pairing with the 789. I also felt the amp was a weak point of the R2R11, although for the price you could just consider it as an added feature. I've found the musicality of a ladder DAC makes a great compliment to the uncolored presentation of the 789.


Massdrop R2R + THX AAA might be a superb combo? Coloration + distortionless amplification?

Wonder if the R2R will ship and re-drop though T_T


----------



## heliosphann

Baten said:


> Massdrop R2R + THX AAA might be a superb combo? Coloration + distortionless amplification?
> 
> Wonder if the R2R will ship and re-drop though T_T



I'll find out myself in a few weeks.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

my 789 replacement finally got shipped out i have no idea what the hold up was. i would have given impressions but i sent mine back the button was getting very annoying to deal with. i also have the rdr coming i cant wait for both to get here i really liked the 789 from the time it was here. im hoping the new unit might even have a straight selector switch but it seems normal to be off to the right on the 2nd setting.


----------



## areek

heliosphann said:


> I had the R2R11 for awhile and I think it'd be a good pairing with the 789. I also felt the amp was a weak point of the R2R11, although for the price you could just consider it as an added feature. I've found the musicality of a ladder DAC makes a great compliment to the uncolored presentation of the 789.


Thanks for the comment, bro. I have made my decision to purchase this.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i agree with helio on the r2r11 the amp section i could have done without imo otherwise the dac is overall very nice and should compliment the 789


----------



## Fatdoi

Has anyone took inside shots of the unit or are there any internal pics on google?


----------



## Baten

Fatdoi said:


> Has anyone took inside shots of the unit or are there any internal pics on google?



From ASR:


----------



## Fatdoi

Baten said:


> From ASR:



thanks, great shot


----------



## MacMan31

I've been looking at this amp for a while now but I already have an Aune X7S paired with the Massdrop Grace SDAC. Would this be in any way an upgrade over the X7S? The THX 789 would run me about $500 Canadian. Is it worth it if I already have the X7S which I got for $225 Canadian used?


----------



## Baten

MacMan31 said:


> I've been looking at this amp for a while now but I already have an Aune X7S paired with the Massdrop Grace SDAC. Would this be in any way an upgrade over the X7S? The THX 789 would run me about $500 Canadian. Is it worth it if I already have the X7S which I got for $225 Canadian used?



Well yeah. It is a little better. You could sell the X7S and keep the better amp. Whether it's _worth_ it is another thing (but I would say yes).


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> Well yeah. It is a little better. You could sell the X7S and keep the better amp. Whether it's _worth_ it is another thing (but I would say yes).



Hmm okay. I still don't have a balanced cable yet for my 6XX and 58X so I'm just using SE. But long term you'd say the 789 would be the better option? I do think it would look better paired with the SDAC sitting on top. My music is mostly 320Kbps rips from CD or a few iTunes downloads here and there if I want a one off song from an artist.


----------



## Baten (Nov 20, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. I still don't have a balanced cable yet for my 6XX and 58X so I'm just using SE. But long term you'd say the 789 would be the better option? I do think it would look better paired with the SDAC sitting on top. My music is mostly 320Kbps rips from CD or a few iTunes downloads here and there if I want a one off song from an artist.



Well here are the distinctions:

- What sensitivity are your headphones? The aune has a high output impedance which matches well with HD650/HD800/planars etc, but will have super boomy bass with low ohm (sensitive) headphones. The THX AAA has low output impedance which guarantees a flat frequency(impedance) curve with virtually all headphones.

- Distortion wise the THX is only a little better, it's arguable you will hear any difference here. The output (mis)matching might make you believe otherwise, though.

- Finally both the SE and balanced on the THX are superb. Balanced has more power but otherwise they should sound the same. On the Aune, the balanced has more power but also more noise (again, arguably not audible unless with noise sensitive headphones like IEMs). If you have sufficient power on SE you don't need balanced though.


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> Well here are the distinctions:
> 
> - What sensitivity are your headphones? The aune has a high output impedance which matches well with HD650/HD800/planars etc, but will have super boomy bass with low ohm (sensitive) headphones. The THX AAA has low output impedance which guarantees a flat frequency(impedance) curve with virtually all headphones.
> 
> ...



The 6XX and 58X are 300Ohm and 150Ohm respectively I believe. Those are the only two I'm using so far. But I'm looking at some nice closed backs like the Fostex options on Massdrop. I don't use IEMs as I don't like earphones sticking into my ears. I don't think I'm expecting much difference in sound signature as the DAC being used will be the same. I have more than sufficient power on SE but I've heard that balanced can have a wider sound stage though that may also depend on the headphones being used.


----------



## Baten

MacMan31 said:


> The 6XX and 58X are 300Ohm and 150Ohm respectively I believe. Those are the only two I'm using so far. But I'm looking at some nice closed backs like the Fostex options on Massdrop. I don't use IEMs as I don't like earphones sticking into my ears. I don't think I'm expecting much difference in sound signature as the DAC being used will be the same. I have more than sufficient power on SE but I've heard that balanced can have a wider sound stage though that may also depend on the headphones being used.


The Fostex might not match well with the Aune.


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> The Fostex might not match well with the Aune.



Hmm okay. Would it match better with the THX 789?


----------



## Baten

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. Would it match better with the THX 789?


Because of flat resulting impedance curve due to its very low impedance output, the frequency response will be much more linear and well-behaved, yes.

It's the only real flaw of the Aune, too high output impedance which will cause a mismatch with efficient/sensitive headphones like the fostex, like iems.


----------



## Oublie

I'm scared!!

I've been demoing some new toys specifically Sennheiser HD 600'S and Audioquest Nighthawks and the 789 is intermittently switching off and on the unit itself isn't but the sound switches off and the led goes red for a second then sound comes back and led goes white.  I've switched it off for now, it could be the input source causing an issue or maybe its that stupid power button and associated electronics causing the issue.  I'll leave it a while and try again.

In the meantime has anyone else experienced this? BTW the only thing I've done is switched gain for the different headphone impedences and used the xlr or 3.5mm connectors. Volume control hasn't exceeded the 12 o'clock position.


----------



## AndrewM888

Oublie said:


> I'm scared!!
> 
> I've been demoing some new toys specifically Sennheiser HD 600'S and Audioquest Nighthawks and the 789 is intermittently switching off and on the unit itself isn't but the sound switches off and the led goes red for a second then sound comes back and led goes white.  I've switched it off for now, it could be the input source causing an issue or maybe its that stupid power button and associated electronics causing the issue.  I'll leave it a while and try again.
> 
> In the meantime has anyone else experienced this? BTW the only thing I've done is switched gain for the different headphone impedences and used the xlr or 3.5mm connectors. Volume control hasn't exceeded the 12 o'clock position.


Hi Oublie,
Is this happening only when you plug/unplug the headphone?
Plugging/unplugging the 3.5mm or 6.35mm TRS will momentarily short the amp, and due to AAA very small output impedance triggers overcurrent protection to invoke for a few seconds. 
If not, please tell us more about the conditions immediately before/during shut down.
Thanks, Andrew


----------



## Oublie

Hi I turn the volume to 0 switch off the unit then swap unplug and replug different headphones before switching the unit back on so there is no live switching I set gain before switching on and adjust volume after the unit is running. No shorting would be possible because of the way I use it this is how I change headphones on all my gear .


----------



## Oublie (Nov 20, 2018)

The unit is essentially cutting out during playback sound switches of, light goes red, sound comes on light goes white.  It may do this a few times then not do it again for a few minutes.  It's not high decibel transients I.e. Sudden high demands on the amp causing it as its happening with vocals and dubstep so heavy duty bass and light midrange vocal music.


----------



## Oublie

OK I've powered everything back up the current rig is 

Computer USB, smsl sanskrit dac, rca out to 789, nighthawks on 3.5mm connection gain on 2 volume at about 10 music variable acoustic e.g. Damien Rice flac and mp3 320. let's see what happens for the next couple of hours.


----------



## Oublie

OK 2hrs Acoustic followed by bassotronics Bass Vibe. Not a hiccup switching to HD 600's xlr output everything else the same except very slight increase in volume control.  I'm starting to suspect electronic brainfart


----------



## Oublie

Panic over for now!

No more glitches the amp hasn't missed a beat so far I haven't been able to replicate the issue phew!

So my technical report is electronic brainfart 

Phenomenal amp sound wise it is as good as it gets unless you have the hearing of a dog!

It's truly a wire with gain technically its the most transparent amp I've ever passed a signal through. 

Build quality wise absolutely fine apart from the power button, it's flimsy, wobbles and I don't trust it to last.  When you design v2 of this amp give it a button that goes clunk and changes physical position!

BTW Audioquest Nighthawks rule but need a little bit of dsp in the form of a high shelf from about 700hz not much maybe a couple of dB.  More comfortable than HD 600 by far with some of the best bass control and accuracy I've heard. HD 600 mids are better without eq. But the bass isn't in the same league.  So far I think the nighthawks have it.  BTW I bought both pairs 2nd hand for almost the same price so both have been run in.


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> Because of flat resulting impedance curve due to its very low impedance output, the frequency response will be much more linear and well-behaved, yes.
> 
> It's the only real flaw of the Aune, too high output impedance which will cause a mismatch with efficient/sensitive headphones like the fostex, like iems.



Well I don't care for IEMs so that is not an issue. But basically the THX 789 is better overall for a wider spectrum of headphones.


----------



## MacMan31

Oublie said:


> Panic over for now!
> 
> No more glitches the amp hasn't missed a beat so far I haven't been able to replicate the issue phew!
> 
> ...



Now I'm concerned about the power button. Is this a known issue on this amp? Are other buttons or knobs affected? Does the headphone jack have a firm connection when plugging in headphones?


----------



## CEE TEE

MacMan31 said:


> Now I'm concerned about the power button. Is this a known issue on this amp? Are other buttons or knobs affected? Does the headphone jack have a firm connection when plugging in headphones?


Hey MacMan31,
Power button is fine and working as intended.  The button does not stay depressed when on because there is an "auto-sleep" feature and if you do not use the amp for a period of time, it will turn itself off.  You can bypass this feature if you like, there is a switch on the back.  If you bypass the "auto-sleep", then it will remain on forever.

If you want to turn your amp back on, just push the button again.

Please note:  If you are checking out the power button when you get it and you press on/off quickly a number of times...there is about a 3-5 second delay built into the circuit to protect the parts from fast power-cycling.  This was not communicated at launch and has caused some confusion, we apologize for this.  Just to be certain, we have checked some reports and amps in the field, they are all working as intended!  

Thank you all for your interest in this amplifier, we're very pleased that so many of you are already enjoying them and spreading the word.


----------



## Oublie (Nov 21, 2018)

CEE TEE said:


> Hey MacMan31,
> Power button is fine and working as intended.  The button does not stay depressed when on because there is an "auto-sleep" feature and if you do not use the amp for a period of time, it will turn itself off.  You can bypass this feature if you like, there is a switch on the back.  If you bypass the "auto-sleep", then it will remain on forever.
> 
> If you want to turn your amp back on, just push the button again.
> ...



Here's a suggestion CeeTee bin the autosleep and give it a normal power button the first thing I did when setting up the amp was disable that feature.  I have personally never needed or used a sleep function on anything electronic apart from my file server and that's because I can use wake on lan and it's in a server rack in a different part of the house. Most of us sit near our headphone amps from my experience so switching it off is not a great hardship it's not like it's an electricity drinking 200w class a tube amp system!

I understand when you say it's functioning as you the developers intended I know I've been there with software development and don't get me wrong I absolutely love the amp.  On the scale of things it's a pretty minor 'feature' as Microsoft would say but it's literally the only negative thing that I have found with the amp.

I've just ordered an lps for it - not that it's necessary but I've never liked using wallwarts and at the price you could hardly expect to have one included.

Thanks for releasing such a fantastic piece of gear just one question when are you coming to Europe? I had to pay over £100 import duty, it was worth it but isn't it time massdrop broadened their geographical horizons I know monoprice have. In many instances it's cheaper for Europeans to import directly from China rather than via massdrop.

Thanks loving my 789 

P. S. LPS in the same style case? If your sticking with this form factor I would buy one also for my CTH. or make the empty cases available for purchase with no predrilled holes for diyers or case transplants.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Missed the drop this time hopefully there will be another one soon.


----------



## smallcaps

alphanumerix1 said:


> Missed the drop this time hopefully there will be another one soon.



Think it's a regular product now. I see that the drop is active again...


----------



## alpovs

alphanumerix1 said:


> Missed the drop this time hopefully there will be another one soon.


It's perpetual now renewing every day: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier


----------



## alphanumerix1

yep just realized, thanks!


----------



## MacMan31

Oublie said:


> Here's a suggestion CeeTee bin the autosleep and give it a normal power button the first thing I did when setting up the amp was disable that feature.  I have personally never needed or used a sleep function on anything electronic apart from my file server and that's because I can use wake on lan and it's in a server rack in a different part of the house. Most of us sit near our headphone amps from my experience so switching it off is not a great hardship it's not like it's an electricity drinking 200w class a tube amp system!
> 
> I understand when you say it's functioning as you the developers intended I know I've been there with software development and don't get me wrong I absolutely love the amp.  On the scale of things it's a pretty minor 'feature' as Microsoft would say but it's literally the only negative thing that I have found with the amp.
> 
> ...



Okay thank you. I'm still debating whether this is a worthwhile upgrade from the Aune X7S. I have that paired with the Massdrop Grace SDAC.


----------



## davisman

I have had my amp for a few days now and I have to say it is darn good for the asking price. Like others have said, good clean power and a nice punchy sound that can be bright at times. If I had to nitpick, it would be the staging seems wonky to my ears. It doesn't seem to handle directional audio as well as I would like, and the stage can be flat.

That is compared to my Mjolnir 2 via with good NOS tubes via Gumby a2 balanced out, so YMMV. 

Overall I would say that it is very well built, has good connectivity, and priced very well. You could do a lot worse!


----------



## CoFire

Any comparisons to a Gilmore Lite Mark II? Monoprice Liquid Platinum?


----------



## tim0chan

davisman said:


> I have had my amp for a few days now and I have to say it is darn good for the asking price. Like others have said, good clean power and a nice punchy sound that can be bright at times. If I had to nitpick, it would be the staging seems wonky to my ears. It doesn't seem to handle directional audio as well as I would like, and the stage can be flat.
> 
> That is compared to my Mjolnir 2 via with good NOS tubes via Gumby a2 balanced out, so YMMV.
> 
> Overall I would say that it is very well built, has good connectivity, and priced very well. You could do a lot worse!


listening done via the gumby with the thx?


----------



## davisman

tim0chan said:


> listening done via the gumby with the thx?


Yes using the balanced output.


----------



## MacMan31

davisman said:


> I have had my amp for a few days now and I have to say it is darn good for the asking price. Like others have said, good clean power and a nice punchy sound that can be bright at times. If I had to nitpick, it would be the staging seems wonky to my ears. It doesn't seem to handle directional audio as well as I would like, and the stage can be flat.
> 
> That is compared to my Mjolnir 2 via with good NOS tubes via Gumby a2 balanced out, so YMMV.
> 
> Overall I would say that it is very well built, has good connectivity, and priced very well. You could do a lot worse!



Can you describe the wonky sound stage a bit more? I'm trying to decide if this is a worthwhile upgrade to the Aune X7S.


----------



## Baten

davisman said:


> I have had my amp for a few days now and I have to say it is darn good for the asking price. Like others have said, good clean power and a nice punchy sound that can be bright at times. If I had to nitpick, it would be the staging seems wonky to my ears. It doesn't seem to handle directional audio as well as I would like, and the stage can be flat.
> 
> That is compared to my Mjolnir 2 via with good NOS tubes via Gumby a2 balanced out, so YMMV.
> 
> Overall I would say that it is very well built, has good connectivity, and priced very well. You could do a lot worse!



Comparing tube sound to good solid state like this seems normal the stage is more flat on the THX. If anything, the tubes artificially widen the sound and the solid state is more faithful but I guess better not to open that can of worms..  Just saying I'm not surprised you note that change.


----------



## gtbrown50

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> mine better be a new unit. i had to finally send mine back and im still waiting for a replacement. and also waiting for the second unit i ordered from the second big drop they had. im a bit annoyed at this point honestly. i paid for 2 new units and i will meticulously look them both over and make sure i dont see any signs of handling or repair just to be sure. ill be getting the monoprice unit also and most likely if they compare well enough to the massdrop ill prob sell one of my massdrop unit and have one of each.



I received mine yesterday, and closely inspecting it I have no doubt it is pristine and absolutely brand new. I can also say that having listened to it with my Yggy for a few hours it is everything the reviews say, transparent, powerful, flexible and very well thought out. 

I just ordered a second one for use with my Gumby.


----------



## gtbrown50

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> How is the single-ended vs the XLR? I've read that LCX Single ended is quite inferior to it's XLR output (balanced or unbalanced). I'm not buying an XLR for all my headphones, so does anyone think the THX isn't worth using only Single ended?



I'm using mine single ended....and for me its sound is what I wanted, deep bass, very resolving highs and outstanding overall. I'm extremely impressed.


----------



## Baten

gtbrown50 said:


> I received mine yesterday, and closely inspecting it I have no doubt it is pristine and absolutely brand new. I can also say that having listened to it with my Yggy for a few hours it is everything the reviews say, transparent, powerful, flexible and very well thought out.
> 
> I just ordered a second one for use with my Gumby.


Nice. Congrats!


----------



## heliosphann

Baten said:


> Comparing tube sound to good solid state like this seems normal the stage is more flat on the THX. *If anything, the tubes artificially widen the sound and the solid state is more faithful* but I guess better not to open that can of worms..  Just saying I'm not surprised you note that change.



This.


----------



## MacMan31

gtbrown50 said:


> I'm using mine single ended....and for me its sound is what I wanted, deep bass, very resolving highs and outstanding overall. I'm extremely impressed.



I'm only using SE at the moment as well with my Aune X7S but I wouldn't mind going XLR at some point. I'm really itching to grab this amp due to all the great reviews but I'm not sure if it's a significant enough upgrade from the X7S. Though it may pair that much nicer with my Massdrop Grace SDAC.


----------



## davisman

MacMan31 said:


> Can you describe the wonky sound stage a bit more? I'm trying to decide if this is a worthwhile upgrade to the Aune X7S.



Yes, it is like 3 blobs. Left right and center. 



Baten said:


> Comparing tube sound to good solid state like this seems normal the stage is more flat on the THX. If anything, the tubes artificially widen the sound and the solid state is more faithful but I guess better not to open that can of worms..  Just saying I'm not surprised you note that change.




Fair point, thats why I worded my post the way I did. Even still, this amp suffers from the three blobs. None of my other SS amps are like this. Mjolnir 2 w/lisst, Asgard 2.


----------



## MacMan31

davisman said:


> Yes, it is like 3 blobs. Left right and center.



Hmm interesting. So the sound doesn’t sweep back and forth across the sound stage. I wonder if it’s due to the DAC or headphones you’re using?


----------



## oqvist

mr speakers ether 2 is magneplanar right? They tend to have that kind of soundstage. I don´t get that with my HD 800S. For sure my tube might go a bit deeper and since headphones always have to small soundstage who to say it´s not more realistic but I don´t sense a particular problem at all with the THX 789. I happen to like it intimate but the HD 800S still go decently wide. I have not really compared the actual width to my other solid states but it´s not much between them.


----------



## Yviena

Has anyone  checked  what gain is best on this amp, low gain with  higher on volume pot, or high gain low on volume ?


----------



## Oublie

Yviena said:


> Has anyone  checked  what gain is best on this amp, low gain with  higher on volume pot, or high gain low on volume ?



I have high low and medium gain cans and can find no discernable difference I have it set to low gain as I'm running it balanced and it gets too loud with the other settings - running volume from dac.


----------



## flyte3333

Nosaj1969 said:


> Should be a better headphone to do a direct comparison with my Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed



Hi Nosaj

Just wondering what kind of volume knob position you use this with your Aeon Flow Closed cans, on the lowest gain setting? Say with popular modern (loud) recordings?

Are you able to use it at 12 o'clock on the volume knob with the lowest gain setting? Or is it already quite loud at 9 o'clock with the Aeon Closed?

Cheers


----------



## Nosaj1969 (Nov 24, 2018)

Em2016 said:


> Hi Nosaj
> 
> Just wondering what kind of volume knob position you use this with your Aeon Flow Closed cans, on the lowest gain setting? Say with popular modern (loud) recordings?
> 
> ...


I actually use the 789 mostly with my Focal Elex, but I did try it out with the Aeon finally this week during the holiday.  Was also pre-occupied with the Focal Elegia's that I had for a week and sent off to the next user on Tuesday.

I think the Aeon sounds absolutely pristine with the 789.  I've been listening to some Christoper Lawrence lately as it's pretty bass heavy and fun to play at louder than normal volume, so a good test for your query.


​
With my Aeon on the lowest gain setting, I was able to play at full volume with no distortion, but not quite at the limit of what I think is loud.  It's pretty loud, but I show them on about 2pm in the second picture, and that is about where I think it sounds about ten percent more volume than the full on no gain and about as loud as I need to go.  This amplifier still has more ooomf to give, but don't need to blow my ears out either.
​The Audio-gd at lo gain I get about 65 on the volume knob to get the similar volume to the 2pm mid-gain on the AAA.  The Aeon requires significantly more power than say the Focal or Sennheiser by about 40%.  Especially the Elegia which is closed too, and very forward sounding but super efficient. I don't think you'll likely have to use the gain much as I usually am content to listen to the low gain settings on all my amps as they sound great at lower levels enough so that the music it's not ever not loud enough or too loud.

The amplifier is absolutely silent even with the volume all the way up.  The Mr. Speakers are just excellent all around, and after listening to the Elegia's (also closed) I'm more than ever convinced that they are the better of the two by a significant margin and pairs great with this amplifier as it's very powerful, and wasn't as needed for the Focal.  The AAA is very transparent, and it seems to have great bass and sub-bass performance over my other amplifiers with the exception of the NFB-1.  I think the 789 is superb.   Either way, there no perceivable difference to me between the gain stages of this amplifier, so if you need to play it louder, don't sweat it.  It's just great.


----------



## Nosaj1969 (Nov 24, 2018)

Nosaj1969 said:


> I actually use the 789 mostly with my Focal Elex, but I did try it out with the Aeon finally this week during the holiday.  Was also pre-occupied with the Focal Elegia's that I had for a week and sent off to the next user on Tuesday.
> 
> I think the Aeon sounds absolutely pristine with the 789.  I've been listening to some Christoper Lawrence lately as it's pretty bass heavy and fun to play at louder than normal volume, so a good test for your query.
> 
> ...


----------



## tim0chan

The pics aren't working for me


----------



## Nosaj1969

tim0chan said:


> The pics aren't working for me


Sorry, fixed it in the second post


----------



## flyte3333

Nosaj1969 said:


> I actually use the 789 mostly with my Focal Elex, but I did try it out with the Aeon finally this week during the holiday.  Was also pre-occupied with the Focal Elegia's that I had for a week and sent off to the next user on Tuesday.
> 
> I think the Aeon sounds absolutely pristine with the 789.  I've been listening to some Christoper Lawrence lately as it's pretty bass heavy and fun to play at louder than normal volume, so a good test for your query.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much !

Final question (if you don’t mind). 

Comparing volume level at 2pm on the lowest gain setting, when you go to the next up gain level (middle gain setting), what knob position gives you the equivalent volume of the lowest gain at 2pm?

Just for a rough indication of how the gain jumps from lowest gain to middle gain setting, with the AEON Closed.

Some of my older music is much lower in volume than my loud newer stuff, so the middle gain setting may be useful.

Just a rough indication if you can.

Much appreciated again.


----------



## Nosaj1969 (Nov 25, 2018)

Em2016 said:


> Thanks so much !
> 
> Final question (if you don’t mind).
> 
> ...


Here is the gain 3 at about equal to my Audio-gd (set at 65 on low) so about 10 o'clock.....

​So 2 o'clock is about 10 on gain two and three....


----------



## Roen

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> So I just saw that the THX 789 is back on massdrop with immediate shipping, (as always..). But my question is, why would I buy this over the thx via Monoprice which includes a balanced dac for less $$ than you could possibly find a balanced dac to compliment the massdrop THX? Are there any cheap balanced DAC's that you all think are worth pairing with the THX 789?
> 
> Does anyone have thoughts about the balanced Sdac (which i dunno where to find at the moment) vs a dual AKM that (i think) is used in the Monoprice THX amp?



Because the Monoprice doesn't measure nearly as well as the Massdrop THX. Same branding, woefully different execution.


----------



## Baten

Roen said:


> Because the Monoprice doesn't measure nearly as well as the Massdrop THX. Same branding, woefully different execution.


Uh, it's the same engineer answering questions at the massdrop head-fi thread and the monoprice Q&A section. "Woefully different execution", I disagree.

The monoprice has an embedded dual/balanced dac and many digital inputs, even AES/ebu. The massdrop aaa is amp only, little unfair comparison. But as long as you don't need the power of the thx aaa the monoprice has great specs especially in its xlr output, few people need more than what it offers...

The massdrop impressions thread has many people complaining about the power button, monoprice impressions thread has people complaining about usb driver support. Neither had any people complaining about sound, distortion or lack of power 

Full disclosure I have the monoprice on order. Just waiting for shipment to arrive...


----------



## gto88

For dac, Topping D50 should be a good pick, like @Roen has.


----------



## Roen

gto88 said:


> For dac, Topping D50 should be a good pick, like @Roen has.


If you don't need the OLED display and don't mind an open-air frame vs. a case, Khadas Tone Board + DIY case can be had for $92 USD? and measures better than my D50, though it has to be said, we are REALLY talking about INAUDIBLE differences here.


----------



## Roen

Baten said:


> Uh, it's the same engineer answering questions at the massdrop head-fi thread and the monoprice Q&A section. "Woefully different execution", I disagree.
> 
> The monoprice has an embedded dual/balanced dac and many digital inputs, even AES/ebu. The massdrop aaa is amp only, little unfair comparison. But as long as you don't need the power of the thx aaa the monoprice has great specs especially in its xlr output, few people need more than what it offers...
> 
> ...


I'm not going to get into subjective differences of the two, but the only things I can comment on are the numbers that both product when measured. Whether one can audibly perceive the measured differences is another story, which I will not touch with a 10 foot pole.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...monoprice-portable-amp-and-dac-with-thx.5189/


----------



## natto lover

Roen said:


> I'm not going to get into subjective differences of the two, but the only things I can comment on are the numbers that both product when measured. Whether one can audibly perceive the measured differences is another story, which I will not touch with a 10 foot pole.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...monoprice-portable-amp-and-dac-with-thx.5189/


not the product he is referencing


----------



## Baten

Roen said:


> I'm not going to get into subjective differences of the two, but the only things I can comment on are the numbers that both product when measured. Whether one can audibly perceive the measured differences is another story, which I will not touch with a 10 foot pole.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...monoprice-portable-amp-and-dac-with-thx.5189/



this is not the product we are talking about, the dual AKM4493 dac+amp is the desktop monolith amplifier costing $479.99 excl tax....

also, the portable amp has 104dB SINAD. disregarding the usb noise for a moment, that is not _bad _really as far as I know, the really flawed products measure orders of magnitude worse


----------



## Roen

natto lover said:


> not the product he is referencing





Baten said:


> this is not the product we are talking about, the dual AKM4493 dac+amp is the desktop monolith amplifier costing $479.99 excl tax....
> 
> also, the portable amp has 104dB SINAD. disregarding the usb noise for a moment, that is not _bad _really as far as I know, the really flawed products measure orders of magnitude worse



MY bad, I got them mixed up. I actually did not know about the desktop version, let me take a look.


----------



## flyte3333

Nosaj1969 said:


> Here is the gain 3 at about equal to my Audio-gd (set at 65 on low) so about 10 o'clock.....
> 
> ​So 2 o'clock is about 10 on gain two and three....



Thanks again! The photo has confused me though (I’m a little slow). Is the THX 789 in the loop at all? 

It’s the THX 789 gain settings vs volume knob positions with AEON closed I was interested in.

Thanks again. And that’s a stellar  collection of gear you have there!


----------



## alphanumerix1

Nosaj1969 said:


> I actually use the 789 mostly with my Focal Elex, but I did try it out with the Aeon finally this week during the holiday.  Was also pre-occupied with the Focal Elegia's that I had for a week and sent off to the next user on Tuesday.
> 
> I think the Aeon sounds absolutely pristine with the 789.  I've been listening to some Christoper Lawrence lately as it's pretty bass heavy and fun to play at louder than normal volume, so a good test for your query.
> 
> ...



Differences with nfb1 vs 789?


----------



## areek

I am getting this amp and will receive at the end of December. My DAC is an audio gd r2r11. I am planning to use rca to xlr interconnect with it so that I can run my headphones(lcd2) balanced. Will it work? Will there be any issues?


----------



## Baten (Nov 26, 2018)

areek said:


> I am getting this amp and will receive at the end of December. My DAC is an audio gd r2r11. *I am planning to use rca to xlr interconnect with it *so that I can run my headphones(lcd2) balanced. Will it work? Will there be any issues?



You can't simply convert rca to xlr, that won't work.

Use RCA>RCA, the amp will convert it to balanced to the xlr output for your lcd2. It will not be "true" balanced in a way since your source is single-ended, but it will be converted and it will work just fine. I think most people in this thread are using single-ended/RCA input. it's not a problem!

Again, RCA>XLR interconnect, impossible. You can't simply use a cable to go balanced lol. DON'T do it.


----------



## AndrewM888

Baten said:


> You can't simply convert rca to xlr, that won't work.
> 
> Use RCA>RCA, the amp will convert it to balanced to the xlr output for your lcd2. It will not be "true" balanced in a way since your source is single-ended, but it will be converted and it will work just fine. I think most people in this thread are using single-ended/RCA input. it's not a problem!
> 
> Again, RCA>XLR interconnect, impossible. You can't simply use a cable to go balanced lol. DON'T do it.



Not impossible. With 789 it is possible to use RCA>XLR cable with this situation so long as cable is built properly (XLR pin 1 and pin 3 connect to RCA plug by separate wires). However, the R2R11 has XLR output - why not just use XLR cables?


----------



## Baten

AndrewM888 said:


> Not impossible. With 789 it is possible to use RCA>XLR cable with this situation so long as cable is built properly (XLR pin 1 and pin 3 connect to RCA plug by separate wires). However, the R2R11 has XLR output - why not just use XLR cables?


What's the benefit to doing this rather than using RCA? I've always been told this is a terrible idea, thanks for clarifying though.


----------



## AndrewM888

First principles approach is there will always be some common mode ground noise currents flowing in your audio cables shield, due to low freq magnetic fields, RF from SMPS and cell phones, and from direct injection by the various products' AC/DC power supplies.
And your audio cables all have non-zero ground impedance. So if this CM noise current flows in part of the cable that's used for signal (e.g. RCA's shield is also the signal negative wire) then it'll corrupt the signal as hum, machine noise, hiss, etc according to V=I*R where R is the RCA shield impedance.
But if this CM current is given a preferred pathway (e.g. separate shield wire in XLR cable) then it won't corrupt the audio.  Similarly if given a lower impedance path (e.g. very short RCA, or more-copper in the RCA shield) then it'll corrupt less because the "R" term is smaller in V=I*R.
An RCA>XLR cable, if built properly, will provide a *mostly* separate pathway for CM noise current to flow. It's a half-way house. 
Now the question is whether or not an amp can handle an unbalanced signal on its balanced input... if the amp is designed right as a "differential" input stage, then no problem (as is the case with most product).
Rule of thumb for users is 
a) use 3-wire balanced cabling where possible (e.g. XLR)
b) if forced to use RCA, use the lowest impedance shield, and keep the length short


----------



## Baten

AndrewM888 said:


> First principles approach is there will always be some common mode ground noise currents flowing in your audio cables shield, due to low freq magnetic fields, RF from SMPS and cell phones, and from direct injection by the various products' AC/DC power supplies.
> And your audio cables all have non-zero ground impedance. So if this CM noise current flows in part of the cable that's used for signal (e.g. RCA's shield is also the signal negative wire) then it'll corrupt the signal as hum, machine noise, hiss, etc according to V=I*R where R is the RCA shield impedance.
> But if this CM current is given a preferred pathway (e.g. separate shield wire in XLR cable) then it won't corrupt the audio.  Similarly if given a lower impedance path (e.g. very short RCA, or more-copper in the RCA shield) then it'll corrupt less because the "R" term is smaller in V=I*R.
> An RCA>XLR cable, if built properly, will provide a *mostly* separate pathway for CM noise current to flow. It's a half-way house.
> ...


Very, very interesting. Thanks man.


----------



## MacMan31

I still have yet to pull the trigger on the THX 789. With my Aune X7S I'm on low gain and never feel the need to go past 12 o'clock on the volume dial with my 58X or 6XX. I'm only using the SE headphone jack at the moment but I do want to get a balanced cable at some point.


----------



## humblesquad

Does anyone else feel that this amp needs a long warm-up (8 to 9 hours) to shine? Without the warm-up it sounds dull, too much smooth, congested and far less dynamic. After that, mid and bass become powerful, lean, clear and realistic by a large margin. When I shut the power off and rest it overnight, it becomes dull again.


----------



## oqvist

humblesquad said:


> Does anyone else feel that this amp needs a long warm-up (8 to 9 hours) to shine? Without the warm-up it sounds dull, too much smooth, congested and far less dynamic. After that, mid and bass become powerful, lean, clear and realistic by a large margin. When I shut the power off and rest it overnight, it becomes dull again.



Never nnoticed that tbh I seldom listen 10h straight though


----------



## BrotherKathos

humblesquad said:


> Does anyone else feel that this amp needs a long warm-up (8 to 9 hours) to shine? Without the warm-up it sounds dull, too much smooth, congested and far less dynamic. After that, mid and bass become powerful, lean, clear and realistic by a large margin. When I shut the power off and rest it overnight, it becomes dull again.


I leave all my audio stuff on all the time unless it’s something like tubes that wear out ridiculous fast. All of my components seem to spund better after being on for a while. Could just be a placebo but ymmv


----------



## gtbrown50

humblesquad said:


> Does anyone else feel that this amp needs a long warm-up (8 to 9 hours) to shine? Without the warm-up it sounds dull, too much smooth, congested and far less dynamic. After that, mid and bass become powerful, lean, clear and realistic by a large margin. When I shut the power off and rest it overnight, it becomes dull again.



Haven't noticed that...turn it on and off as needed.


----------



## Zbell

Love this amp so far, but does anyone else have an issue where the amp still produces sound when the volume pot is turned all the way down? I can still hear music (albeit at a very low volume) when the pot is turned all the way down, even at the lowest gain setting. I've never had this issue with previous amps, so I'm curious if the volume pot was just installed incorrectly or if this is a common issue.


----------



## AndrewM888 (Nov 27, 2018)

Zbell said:


> Love this amp so far, but does anyone else have an issue where the amp still produces sound when the volume pot is turned all the way down? I can still hear music (albeit at a very low volume) when the pot is turned all the way down, even at the lowest gain setting. I've never had this issue with previous amps, so I'm curious if the volume pot was just installed incorrectly or if this is a common issue.


Yes there's a tiny amount of bleed-through in the pot at nil. It's like 83 dB down. One of the unavoidable issue with analog audio.

DAC volume controls don't face this issue since the DAC can attenuate all the way down to its noise floor.

If it's still an issue for you, consider toggling the input switch or power switch to completely kill the audio. Or pause the source.


----------



## Roen (Nov 27, 2018)

areek said:


> I am getting this amp and will receive at the end of December. My DAC is an audio gd r2r11. I am planning to use rca to xlr interconnect with it so that I can run my headphones(lcd2) balanced. Will it work? Will there be any issues?


The amp itself isn't fully differential balanced anyway.

Any XLR input it gets will be converted to SE within the amp and then converted back to balanced if you use the XLR output.

You might as well feed RCA into the amp and let the amp do the conversion.

If you had a DAC with a balanced out into the amp, you'll get a balanced signal in, conversion to single ended internally, then converted to balanced for XLR output.


----------



## AndrewM888

Roen said:


> The amp itself isn't fully differential balanced anyway.
> 
> Any XLR input it gets will be converted to SE within the amp and then converted back to balanced if you use the XLR output.
> 
> You might as well feed RCA into the amp and let the amp do the conversion.


This isn't a correct analysis of the situation. Differential SE audio is handled properly within the chassis since the negative side isn't corrupted by noise currents. However SE audio on an RCA can be easily corrupted by CM noise current on the RCA shield which, multiplied by shield impedance, gives a noise voltage. 
The OP's RCA to XLR will solve most of these issues by providing a preferred path for CM noise current to flow, leaving the SE negative wire unadulterated.
See my previous reply to the OP on this issue.


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> This isn't a correct analysis of the situation. Differential SE audio is handled properly within the chassis since the negative side isn't corrupted by noise currents. However SE audio on an RCA can be easily corrupted by CM noise current on the RCA shield which, multiplied by shield impedance, gives a noise voltage.
> The OP's RCA to XLR will solve most of these issues by providing a preferred path for CM noise current to flow, leaving the SE negative wire unadulterated.
> See my previous reply to the OP on this issue.


Do you have a link to such a cable?


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> Not impossible. With 789 it is possible to use RCA>XLR cable with this situation so long as cable is built properly (XLR pin 1 and pin 3 connect to RCA plug by separate wires). However, the R2R11 has XLR output - why not just use XLR cables?


http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm

I don't see the XLR output?


----------



## CoFire

AndrewM888 said:


> This isn't a correct analysis of the situation. Differential SE audio is handled properly within the chassis since the negative side isn't corrupted by noise currents. However SE audio on an RCA can be easily corrupted by CM noise current on the RCA shield which, multiplied by shield impedance, gives a noise voltage.
> The OP's RCA to XLR will solve most of these issues by providing a preferred path for CM noise current to flow, leaving the SE negative wire unadulterated.
> See my previous reply to the OP on this issue.



Seems a silly question given this amps measured performance, but is their a degradation tradeoff by not bring truly balanced throughout the architecture?


----------



## Roen

CoFire said:


> Seems a silly question given this amps measured performance, but is their a degradation tradeoff by not bring truly balanced throughout the architecture?


There's definitely a cost implication.


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> Not impossible. With 789 it is possible to use RCA>XLR cable with this situation so long as cable is built properly (XLR pin 1 and pin 3 connect to RCA plug by separate wires). However, the R2R11 has XLR output - why not just use XLR cables?


What does Pin 2 connect to?


----------



## Roen

Baten said:


> this is not the product we are talking about, the dual AKM4493 dac+amp is the desktop monolith amplifier costing $479.99 excl tax....
> 
> also, the portable amp has 104dB SINAD. disregarding the usb noise for a moment, that is not _bad _really as far as I know, the really flawed products measure orders of magnitude worse



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...pressions-thread.860046/page-19#post-14623994

FYI.

EDIT: What the hell am I doing linking you to something you've already responded to. It's a long Tuesday.


----------



## swmtnbiker (Nov 27, 2018)

Folks, I'm currently using a Mimby+Massdrop CTH with my Clears and am wondering how this THX amp might pair with my DAC and headphones. Anyone out there using this amp with the Clear? If so how do you like it? I'd love to order the THX 789, but am worried that it's supposedly ultra-revealing sounds might be too much for the ultra-revealing Focal. I'm asking because I searched the thread and couldn't find any mention. Thanks!


----------



## oqvist

swmtnbiker said:


> Folks, I'm currently using a Mimby+Massdrop CTH with my Clears and am wondering how this THX amp might pair with my DAC and headphones. Anyone out there using this amp with the Clear? If so how do you like it? I'd love to order the THX 789, but am worried that it's supposedly ultra-revealing sounds might be too much for the ultra-revealing Clear.


it suits the super ultra-revealing hd800s perfectly for my ears.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

swmtnbiker said:


> Folks, I'm currently using a Mimby+Massdrop CTH with my Clears and am wondering how this THX amp might pair with my DAC and headphones. Anyone out there using this amp with the Clear? If so how do you like it? I'd love to order the THX 789, but am worried that it's supposedly ultra-revealing sounds might be too much for the ultra-revealing Focal. I'm asking because I searched the thread and couldn't find any mention. Thanks!


THX 789 works great with my Utopia though I haven’t tried it with the Clear. I think it would be a case of the strong suits of the headphone and the amp complementing each other instead of being too much of a good thing. If you wanted to mitigate that super-revealing nature you might think of getting an NOS dac like something from MHDT Labs as they tend to have a very analog, easy-going sound.


----------



## oqvist

I will say though my Trafomatic Audio Head One for some reason sounds absotutely insanely good with the Focal Elear. Which is of course tuned differently then the Clear and Utopia but give it a shot. It´s a match made in heaven I never saw coming... I could go pages and rave about the match  
THX AAA 789 is the best solid state I heard for it but it´s not in the same ballpark at all in term of perceived realism.

Curious if it would do similar trick to Clear and Utopia but I shot my headphone budgets for decades to come already and why when the Elear sound this good. But then we have the HD800S on the THX AAA 789 and the LCD-2 on this or my RDS-440. I wish I was a hydra.


----------



## Wallboy

Anyone from Canada ordered one of these units? What sort of custom/import fees did you have to pay?


----------



## jcadduono (Nov 27, 2018)

Wallboy said:


> Anyone from Canada ordered one of these units? What sort of custom/import fees did you have to pay?


Since you would be ordering from USA there would only be HST on import and the fees of the courier if you ship it across the border.

$350 USD declared = $465.60 CAD
$465.60 * 0.13 = $60.53 in HST

I assume Massdrop ships this with UPS Ground.

UPS will charge $48.25 as a "Entry Preparation Fee" for packages declared up to $500 CAD.
They will also charge you 2.7% of the taxes that they pay for you, or $5.85 minimum.

2.7% of $60.53 is only $1.63 so you will be charged the $5.85.

$48.25 + $5.85 = $54.10
$54.10 * 1.13 (HST on additional UPS fees) = $61.1

$60.53 (item's HST) + $61.13 (UPS fees) = $121.66 paid at the door when it is delivered to you.

So overall you would pay $587.26 CAD for this amplifier, not including possible 2-3% additional foreign transaction conversion fees. I have no idea if Massdrop charges extra for shipping to Canada either.

I had used a no FTF credit card and shipped it to a US border package pickup which costs $3.00 so I paid:
$465.60 + $60.53 + $3.00 = $529.13 to do all of this myself instead, and the gas to drive there. Hmm, I guess UPS ain't so bad.


----------



## MacMan31

jcadduono said:


> Since you would be ordering from USA there would only be HST on import and the fees of the courier if you ship it across the border.
> 
> $350 USD declared = $465.60 CAD
> $465.60 * 0.13 = $60.53 in HST
> ...



I've ordered from Massdrop before and once the item is in Canada it gets delivered via Canada Post. At least that's been my experience. Either way do you still think this amp is worth almost $600?


----------



## jcadduono (Nov 27, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> I've ordered from Massdrop before and once the item is in Canada it gets delivered via Canada Post. At least that's been my experience. Either way do you still think this amp is worth almost $600?


if you're fortunate enough to have it go through USPS to Canada Post then you'll probably just have to go to the post office and pick it up and pay $9.95 handling + $60.53 tax which is pretty nice.
Sometimes Canada Post is processing so many packages at once that it skips Customs Clearance and you don't pay a dime. I've had this happen a few times.

well, it's essentially the best solid state amp you can buy right now under $2000 so I'd say the $600 is worth it. I'm replacing my Audio-gd NFB-28.38 with it. (trying to sell it for $850 CAD)
This + Topping D50 + LCD-X is my end game and I'm here!


----------



## Roen (Nov 28, 2018)

AndrewM888 said:


> First principles approach is there will always be some common mode ground noise currents flowing in your audio cables shield, due to low freq magnetic fields, RF from SMPS and cell phones, and from direct injection by the various products' AC/DC power supplies.
> And your audio cables all have non-zero ground impedance. So if this CM noise current flows in part of the cable that's used for signal (e.g. RCA's shield is also the signal negative wire) then it'll corrupt the signal as hum, machine noise, hiss, etc according to V=I*R where R is the RCA shield impedance.
> But if this CM current is given a preferred pathway (e.g. separate shield wire in XLR cable) then it won't corrupt the audio.  Similarly if given a lower impedance path (e.g. very short RCA, or more-copper in the RCA shield) then it'll corrupt less because the "R" term is smaller in V=I*R.
> An RCA>XLR cable, if built properly, will provide a *mostly* separate pathway for CM noise current to flow. It's a half-way house.
> ...



You mean like the top illustration?

https://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-rca-1.html

Also, if using such a RCA -> XLR cable, normally, the balanced out is approx 2x the voltage relative to the SE out. In this case, the voltage is still the same 1x SE out since all we're doing is changing a wire path and not actually doubling voltage?


----------



## Wallboy

jcadduono said:


> Since you would be ordering from USA there would only be HST on import and the fees of the courier if you ship it across the border.
> 
> $350 USD declared = $465.60 CAD
> $465.60 * 0.13 = $60.53 in HST
> ...



Thanks for the detailed approximation. I can't justify dropping over $100 extra at the door. Massdrop needs to step up their game with international shipping. I see quite a few large dicussions on there about people outside of the US getting nailed with really large customs/import fees. Even if this amp is worth more than it's cost, I just can't justify paying that much more out of principle.


----------



## AndrewM888

Roen said:


> You mean like the top illustration?
> 
> https://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-rca-1.html
> 
> Also, if using such a RCA -> XLR cable, normally, the balanced out is approx 2x the voltage relative to the SE out. In this case, the voltage is still the same 1x SE out since all we're doing is changing a wire path and not actually doubling voltage?


Yes, build it like the top image so noise currents can flow from RCA sleeve to pin 1 and leave the pin 3 wire with no ground bounce voltage on it. Not like bottom image which yields no benefit.
Yes, often a DAC BAL out is 2x voltage of its SE out, so you need adequate gain in the amp. 789 in "Gain 3" is designed for 2Vrms sources - either SE or BAL. 
And if you have DAC with BAL XLR and SE RCA outputs, then another reason it's preferable to use the BAL is usually the SNR is around 3dB better.


----------



## alpovs

Wallboy said:


> Anyone from Canada ordered one of these units? What sort of custom/import fees did you have to pay?


Unlike the theoretical answers above I can say that I received this amp. I am in Ontario and I had to pay $70.03 CAD in customs charges which were $60.03 in 13% tax and $10 processing fee, no duties. The package was delivered by Canada Post. It had been shipped by DHL from New Jersey. I believe DHL does the shipping and delivers packages to major Canada Post hubs and then Canada Post does the local delivery. I got mine at the peak of postal strike and it didn't seem to affect the shipping. I got it in 5 days from the shipping date. The shipping cost $25.25 USD. The charge for the amp plus shipping was roughly $510 CAD including currency conversion fees, so the total cost for me was $580 CAD. CAD/USD exchange rate changed a bit since then, so today it will be a little more.


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> Yes, often a DAC BAL out is 2x voltage of its SE out, so you need adequate gain in the amp. 789 in "Gain 3" is designed for 2Vrms sources - either SE or BAL.



Just so I don't misunderstand. My DAC will send out a 2Vrms signal over its SE out through RCA. If I use this RCA to XLR cable, the amp will still only see 2Vrms through its Balanced input, correct? There's no voltage doubling that occurs?


----------



## alpovs

Wallboy said:


> Thanks for the detailed approximation. I can't justify dropping over $100 extra at the door. Massdrop needs to step up their game with international shipping. I see quite a few large dicussions on there about people outside of the US getting nailed with really large customs/import fees. Even if this amp is worth more than it's cost, I just can't justify paying that much more out of principle.


That principle is Canadian taxes. Does it matter if you pay them at the door or if Massdrop charges them when you order? The total will be the same.


----------



## alpovs

jcadduono said:


> I assume Massdrop ships this with UPS Ground.





jcadduono said:


> if you're fortunate enough to have it go through USPS to Canada Post then you'll probably just have to go to the post office and pick it up and pay $9.95 handling + $60.53 tax which is pretty nice.
> Sometimes Canada Post is processing so many packages at once that it skips Customs Clearance and you don't pay a dime. I've had this happen a few times.


I ordered many items from Massdrop and they ALWAYS shipped by DHL->Canada Post. And DHL takes care of the customs charges, Canada Post only collects the money. As a result they NEVER skipped customs charges even for inexpensive items, and there is always a $9.95 processing fee, even if the tax is less than $9.95.


----------



## MacMan31

jcadduono said:


> if you're fortunate enough to have it go through USPS to Canada Post then you'll probably just have to go to the post office and pick it up and pay $9.95 handling + $60.53 tax which is pretty nice.
> Sometimes Canada Post is processing so many packages at once that it skips Customs Clearance and you don't pay a dime. I've had this happen a few times.
> 
> well, it's essentially the best solid state amp you can buy right now under $2000 so I'd say the $600 is worth it. I'm replacing my Audio-gd NFB-28.38 with it. (trying to sell it for $850 CAD)
> This + Topping D50 + LCD-X is my end game and I'm here!



I have an Aune X7S so I’m not sure if this is a worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## AndrewM888

Roen said:


> Just so I don't misunderstand. My DAC will send out a 2Vrms signal over its SE out through RCA. If I use this RCA to XLR cable, the amp will still only see 2Vrms through its Balanced input, correct? There's no voltage doubling that occurs?


Correct! A "balanced input" done right is actually just a "differential input" in that it subtracts IN- from IN+ and doesn't really care if the signals are equal and opposite, or not. If you have RCA output DAC and have RCA to XLR-3 cable, then at the amp input the XLR pin 3 (IN-) will be just held at ground (0V) and the XLR pin 2 (IN+) is swinging 2Vrms with respect to ground. So 2-0 = 2V differentially seen by the amp XLR input. 

The 789 works well with 2V rms on either XLR or RCA input. And with 2V input you're free to use any of the 3 gain positions without fear of clipping.


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> Correct! A "balanced input" done right is actually just a "differential input" in that it subtracts IN- from IN+ and doesn't really care if the signals are equal and opposite, or not. If you have RCA output DAC and have RCA to XLR-3 cable, then at the amp input the XLR pin 3 (IN-) will be just held at ground (0V) and the XLR pin 2 (IN+) is swinging 2Vrms with respect to ground. So 2-0 = 2V differentially seen by the amp XLR input.
> 
> The 789 works well with 2V rms on either XLR or RCA input. And with 2V input you're free to use any of the 3 gain positions without fear of clipping.


Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## alpovs

Alcophone said:


> I only use the DX7s as a DAC and preamp. The few times that I tried its headphone amplifier, I found the sound pretty mediocre, but I also never intended to use it for that, so I didn't try for long. Good enough to burn in headphones, though.
> With both a DX7s and a Jotunheim handy, I'd use the DX7s as a balanced DAC into the Jotunheim. If the choice is between either a DX7s or a Jotunheim with DAC module, I'd go for the Jotunheim. In comparison with the Gustard H20 (with Sparkos SS3602s) I noticed that the Jotunheim flattened the Yggdrasil's sound stage (with my Ether C Flow - the sound stage with Jotunheim and internal DAC module was plenty big when I tried the Sennheiser HD800). Not a problem with the DX7s as a DAC because there the sound stage seemed flat to begin with (even with the H20). I wish I had a pair of HD800 just for sound stage testing. Still unsurpassed in that area.
> 
> I haven't spent enough time with the THX amp yet to reach a firm conclusion, but I can give you some impressions (that should make someone here very happy!). With a balanced source and balanced headphones, it's doing a fine job. Clean, full, tight sound. Transients still seem slightly rolled off to me, which can be relaxing, but also takes some of the excitement out of certain recordings, especially with guitars. When I used the iFi micro iDSD as a DAC (i.e. single ended), THX as the amp, and using a single ended cable for my Ether C Flow, I was not happy with the sound. The balanced output with the same DAC and headphones was solid. I have to use it more with my other headphones, I did like what it did to my Focal Listen (single ended only), though I mainly use them straight out of my phone, so any proper amp might impress me with them.


@Alcophone, do you have new impressions of this amp, especially compared to the Jotunheim? With the Yggdrasil, does it flatten the soundstage too? Any other impressions?


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> Correct! A "balanced input" done right is actually just a "differential input" in that it subtracts IN- from IN+ and doesn't really care if the signals are equal and opposite, or not. If you have RCA output DAC and have RCA to XLR-3 cable, then at the amp input the XLR pin 3 (IN-) will be just held at ground (0V) and the XLR pin 2 (IN+) is swinging 2Vrms with respect to ground. So 2-0 = 2V differentially seen by the amp XLR input.
> 
> The 789 works well with 2V rms on either XLR or RCA input. And with 2V input you're free to use any of the 3 gain positions without fear of clipping.


I'll have a couple of cables sent to me to try this halfway house method of reducing ground noise on an unbalanced DAC out. Might as well lol.


----------



## LevPush

MacMan31 said:


> I still have yet to pull the trigger on the THX 789. With my Aune X7S I'm on low gain and never feel the need to go past 12 o'clock on the volume dial with my 58X or 6XX. I'm only using the SE headphone jack at the moment but I do want to get a balanced cable at some point.



Did you pull the trigger in the end? Interested to know the difference.


----------



## MacMan31

LevPush said:


> Did you pull the trigger in the end? Interested to know the difference.



I did not pull the trigger yet. I think money is a bit tight right now so I may have to wait.


----------



## oqvist

Had the amp on for 48h it´s luckily as soft and smooth as ever. If there is any difference at all surely have to a-b them  at the same time.


----------



## RNST (Nov 29, 2018)

I have the Jotunheim and just received the 789 yesterday. I haven't really done a head to head comparison yet but did spend a few hours trying out the 789 with different music genres. Some say there is no burn in period so these comments are purely from a fresh out of the box perspective. 

I'm new to audio reviews so please bear with me. I'm mostly a vinyl guy who avoided iTunes and have jumped into Hi Res in the past few years.

I'm using a Pono as a source in Balanced mode with dual 3.5 mm to XLR Surf Cables. The headphones are H6xx with a Cardas 4 Pin XLR Cable. 

I played a few tracks from U2 Achtung Baby 44.1 kHz 24 bit, Steely Dan Gaucho 96 kHz 24 bit, Aerosmith Get a Grip 192 kHz 24 bit, Herbie Hancock at Massey Hall 192 kHz 24 bit and Norah Jones Day Breaks 192 kHz 24 bit. 

I started using Pono at 3/4 full power output and the 789 on gain setting 2 at almost full power. 

With the rock tunes, I found the bass a little on the light side. Turning down the volume and using gain setting 3 then turning up the volume the bass and drums kicked in. From there I found the listening experience to be quite good with a lot of clarity instrumentally and with the vocals.

Going back to gain setting 2 for Norah Jones and Herbie Hancock was best for me since I typically listen to this type of music at a lower volume as a background while reading. There was clarity of the instruments and Norah's voice had the airiness I expected. 

I've had the Jotunheim c/w Mulitibit DAC and a WYRD for about 6 months. Its connected to a MacBook Pro with SSD for Flac Files and it's connected to a Pioneer Blu Ray player. 

Without doing a head to head, Playing Steely Dan Gaucho, the Jot sounds warmer while the 789 is a bit brighter. That was my first impression last night.




Wallboy said:


> Anyone from Canada ordered one of these units? What sort of custom/import fees did you have to pay?



I picked mine up at the PO outlet yesterday and paid $33.


----------



## LevPush

So I am planning to pair it with my current Modi 3 right now. Is there any benefit in upgrading to a balanced DAC, what would be the difference be? And if so, which balanced DACs should I consider?


----------



## Baten

LevPush said:


> So I am planning to pair it with my current Modi 3 right now. Is there any benefit in upgrading to a balanced DAC, what would be the difference be? And if so, which balanced DACs should I consider?


Balanced is converted to SE during amplification. Stick with your SE DAC!


----------



## BrotherKathos

LevPush said:


> So I am planning to pair it with my current Modi 3 right now. Is there any benefit in upgrading to a balanced DAC, what would be the difference be? And if so, which balanced DACs should I consider?



Your cheapest option for a decent balaced dac is the SMSL SU-8. Compared to my Topping D50 the balanced SMSL dac does give a bit different of a presentation. The overall sound signature is the same as the D50, having lots of clarity and fairly warm for a sabre dac, but still a tad brighter than the D50. The biggest difference between the two was that the balanced dac pushed the instruments a bit apart and different sections seemed closer or further back than the unbalanced D50. My favorite combo with the thx right now is the Schiit EITR and modi multibit. This has the best overall presentation, bass, spaciousness, and clarity while being the smoothest and least fatiguing. The balanced dac was my least favorite, with the D50 and modi multibit being very close without the addition of the EITR. I used both for a while by themselves and it really was up to my mood as to which was better at the time. Without the Eitr the D50 just has a slight advantage with a kind of 3d like effect on some songs and a bit better bass, but the mimby has the edge in depth, openness, and spaciousness. I think its my dirty laptop usb that is a problem for me and the EITR helps. I've not tried the EITR with the D50 yet though so not sure how that pairs and if its truly the usb though that makes a diference.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 29, 2018)

Baten said:


> Balanced is converted to SE during amplification. Stick with your SE DAC!



I did prefer my D50 in se to my SMSL SU-8 in balanced with the THX. I wonder if it has anything to do with the conversion on the amp side, the balanced connection, or just the differences in sound between the two dacs themselves I was using much 'better' cables with the balanced connection(Cardas quadlink) vs some cheaper mogami rca with the D50.. My favorite is the SE mimby with EITR combo. Probably going to stick to this combo for a while.


----------



## Baten

BrotherKathos said:


> I did prefer my D50 in se to my SMSL SU-8 in balanced with the THX. I wonder if it has anything to do with the conversion on the amp side, the balanced connection, or just the differences in sound between the two dacs themselves I was using much 'better' cables with the balanced connection(Cardas quadlink) vs some cheaper mogami rca with the D50.. My favorite is the SE mimby with EITR combo. Probably going to stick to this combo for a while.


Using BAL doesn't hurt of course but there's no real benefit to do it with this amp. Since BAL is converted to SE during amplification and then back to BAL, while SE will also get output to BAL (therefore SE input comes down to the same thing, makes dac/amp pairing very easy indeed).


----------



## LevPush

BrotherKathos said:


> Your cheapest option for a decent balaced dac is the SMSL SU-8. Compared to my Topping D50 the balanced SMSL dac does give a bit different of a presentation. The overall sound signature is the same as the D50, having lots of clarity and fairly warm for a sabre dac, but still a tad brighter than the D50. The biggest difference between the two was that the balanced dac pushed the instruments a bit apart and different sections seemed closer or further back than the unbalanced D50. My favorite combo with the thx right now is the Schiit EITR and modi multibit. This has the best overall presentation, bass, spaciousness, and clarity while being the smoothest and least fatiguing. The balanced dac was my least favorite, with the D50 and modi multibit being very close without the addition of the EITR. I used both for a while by themselves and it really was up to my mood as to which was better at the time. Without the Eitr the D50 just has a slight advantage with a kind of 3d like effect on some songs and a bit better bass, but the mimby has the edge in depth, openness, and spaciousness. I think its my dirty laptop usb that is a problem for me and the EITR helps. I've not tried the EITR with the D50 yet though so not sure how that pairs and if its truly the usb though that makes a diference.


Hmm I see, so bascially I dont need to worry about balanced dac. Maybe I could upgrade from modi 3 to modi multibit some time later if I find them to be that much difference. Maybe off-topic here but mimby is like 2.5x the price of modi, is there going to be that much of a difference?


----------



## Baten

LevPush said:


> Hmm I see, so bascially I dont need to worry about balanced dac. Maybe I could upgrade from modi 3 to modi multibit some time later if I find them to be that much difference. Maybe off-topic here but mimby is like 2.5x the price of modi, is there going to be that much of a difference?


More Euphonic sound. Hard to quantify in "much" or "little" honestly. If you already have modi3, it's probably a lot of money to go multibit, little too much (my opnion)


----------



## BrotherKathos

LevPush said:


> Hmm I see, so bascially I dont need to worry about balanced dac. Maybe I could upgrade from modi 3 to modi multibit some time later if I find them to be that much difference. Maybe off-topic here but mimby is like 2.5x the price of modi, is there going to be that much of a difference?


I have the modi 3 as well and paired to the thx its very good and nips at the heels of the mimby and D50 quite honestly. I would say getting an Eitr to use with the modi 3 would be better than upgrading to the d50 or mimby, but of course you could also upgrade to the mimby and eitr for the ultimate budget head fi rig     The modi 3 on its own has a tad less pronounced bass and treble than the d50. Its closer to the mimby in signature, but you loose just a tad of depth, spaciousness and you do still get a bit of that delta sigma edge as well, alshough not as much as the d50. definitely the trademark akm velvet sound in play on the modi 3, which to me is a good thing.


----------



## LevPush

@BrotherKathos @Baten Thank you guys very much for answering these questions. Really helpful.


----------



## BrotherKathos

LevPush said:


> @BrotherKathos @Baten Thank you guys very much for answering these questions. Really helpful.


Glad to help. Its so hard sometimes to accurately convey opinion in audio in a way that mekes sense. Also take into account the various differences in people’s hearing as well. Hopefully I’m helping in steering you in the right direction, but those are he differences i’ve noticed between the gear i own and experienced. Right now I’ve pretty much made the final decision on the mimby and eitr with the thx.  I’m taking my magni3 and modi 3 to my other place and will most likely get another eitr to use wih that stack and pair it with some Sennheiser hd6xx since those sound the best with the magni 3 imo.


----------



## LevPush

BrotherKathos said:


> Glad to help. Its so hard sometimes to accurately convey opinion in audio in a way that mekes sense. Also take into account the various differences in people’s hearing as well. Hopefully I’m helping in steering you in the right direction, but those are he differences i’ve noticed between the gear i own and experienced. Right now I’ve pretty much made the final decision on the mimby and eitr with the thx.  I’m taking my magni3 and modi 3 to my other place and will most likely get another eitr to use wih that stack and pair it with some Sennheiser hd6xx since those sound the best with the magni 3 imo.



Wow really? I'm using hd6xx and modi/magni stack right now. I'm planning to give away my magni to someone and use the THX AAA. You think hd6xx pairs better with Magni than THX AAA? I also ordered a balanced cable for hd6xx so that I could use the Balanced out on THX AAA. BTW I also plan to raise the budget to buy another headphone, either LCD-X or Focal Clear and plan to pair that with the THX AAA. Do you think one of those would do better on THX AAA than Magni 3?


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 29, 2018)

LevPush said:


> Wow really? I'm using hd6xx and modi/magni stack right now. I'm planning to give away my magni to someone and use the THX AAA. You think hd6xx pairs better with Magni than THX AAA? I also ordered a balanced cable for hd6xx so that I could use the Balanced out on THX AAA. BTW I also plan to raise the budget to buy another headphone, either LCD-X or Focal Clear and plan to pair that with the THX AAA. Do you think one of those would do better on THX AAA than Magni 3?


 
I did not explain properly. I meant to say that the magni 3 only sounds good with my hd6xx. my other amps are better with the hd6xx , but the magni 3 is an amo i dont really like, but the hd6xx tames its overt brightness to me and is a decent pair. the thx is on a completely different level than the magni 3 imo I use the audeze lcd-2c with my thx and mimby eitr combo. very good pairing.


----------



## LevPush

BrotherKathos said:


> I did not explain properly. I meant to say that the magni 3 only sounds good with my hd6xx. my other amps are better with the hd6xx , but the magni 3 is an amo i dont really like, but the hd6xx tames its overt brightness to me and is a decent pair. the thx is on a completely different level than the magni 3 imo I use the audeze lcd-2c with my thx and mimby eitr combo. very good pairing.


Oh I see, best in terms of Magni not 6xx. Gotcha.


----------



## Jthompson300

I am waiting for my balanced cables(cables to run balanced xlr from my A&K players and balanced to my Audeze) to come in but so far it’s going well with this amp. 

        I jumped the gun and started using it in SE output with rca input and found myself surprised when using my LCD-2,  which I can only imagine will improve with the balanced cable because I need a bit more juice for the LCD-2. With my XC it’s great, same with my Elegia even though I don’t really plan on using my Elegia with it at the moment. I have had it for a while now but hadn’t listened to it because I was intent on waiting for my cables to give it a fair shake but it turns out having a bad day and jumping the gun was a good idea because I am really surprised so far. 

The first 30 minutes were rough with some unwanted static and harshness even after letting it warm up for a bit but after that it has gotten much better. Dead quiet at all volumes, pretty much flat and no coloration that I can discern yet but I will comment again after I take a serious listen to it.


----------



## gtbrown50

I've had my 789 for a couple of weeks. I use it with my Yggy (Gen 5) and listen with Utopias, LCD 4, HFK se, and also LCD XC all connected via SE. I was using a Magni 3. 

This amp is often described as a "wire" amplifier, and I concur. What I also appreciate is the design; triple gain setting on the front panel, power switch on the front panel, balanced and SE capable, tiny but easily visible power light. Smooth volume control. Powerful, clean yet cool running.


----------



## SirRealist

gtbrown50 said:


> This amp is often described as a "wire" amplifier, and I concur.



Thank you! Could you please explain what you mean by "wire amp"? The chain I'm heavily considering buying is Eitr -> Mimby -> Jot -> 6XX/4XX/Argon Mk3 and I'm trying to decide if the 789 should replace Jot in my lineup.


----------



## gtbrown50

SirRealist said:


> Thank you! Could you please explain what you mean by "wire amp"? The chain I'm heavily considering buying is Eitr -> Mimby -> Jot -> 6XX/4XX/Argon Mk3 and I'm trying to decide if the 789 should replace Jot in my lineup.



By wire I mean that though it does amplify it doesn't change the sound in anyway.....often amps will be described as "warm" or "bright", etc. To me, it simply amplifies the signal provided without any changes to it. I had a Jot MB and loved it, but I never used just the amp section. The MB was really nice. I used it with LCD-X and Clear.


----------



## SirRealist

gtbrown50 said:


> By wire I mean that though it does amplify it doesn't change the sound in anyway.....often amps will be described as "warm" or "bright", etc. To me, it simply amplifies the signal provided without any changes to it. I had a Jot MB and loved it, but I never used just the amp section. The MB was really nice. I used it with LCD-X and Clear.



Thank you very much. Still undecided, but leaning towards Jot since I've had my eye on it for so long. Seems the 789 is a strong contender and one probably wouldn't go wrong with either.


----------



## elira

SirRealist said:


> Thank you very much. Still undecided, but leaning towards Jot since I've had my eye on it for so long. Seems the 789 is a strong contender and one probably wouldn't go wrong with either.


By pure sound quality if you have a balanced DAC I would recommend the 789.


----------



## gto88

I had Jot before and sold it, as it doesn't impress much.
I had Monoprice THX AAA788 for a few days, I returned it for
disappointment on its DAC design, but I really appreciate its AMP part.
It is powerful and clean sounding, I can feel the space of music.
(This is just a short period of listening impression.)
So, I turned to this thread for impression of this similar amp from others.

Have no chance to read all post yet, not sure if any one has compare monoprice and massdrop units.


----------



## xLoud

Anyone using Modi Multibit with this?


----------



## Baten

xLoud said:


> Anyone using Modi Multibit with this?


Like one page back, mate

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...pressions-thread.873576/page-28#post-14628715


----------



## BrotherKathos

xLoud said:


> Anyone using Modi Multibit with this?








Modi multibit and eitr is end game budget gear with thx 789 imo. so good with the Audeze lcd2c


----------



## ReAlien

Dear All,

I was planning to buy Violectric V200 (well, frankly speaking, it's Chinese clone), but upon noticing this amp from THX I'm wondering if I should lean toward this one. The problem is that V200 I have listened with my ears and this one I only read reports on the web. Is it worth going to THX 789 over V200 if I will be listening to it thought HE400i headphones? The source will be a portable DAC for now (Opus 1s).

Also, I've read about long waiting lines but the Massdrop site says there' available for direct purchase. Can I receive it this December?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## oqvist

If you liked the v200 go with that. THX 789 dont sound the same so its a gamble.


----------



## ReAlien

V200 is more expensive, more difficult to order and has no balanced output (as well as pass through one). Are they so different in the signature? In what way, can you describe?


----------



## areek

ReAlien said:


> Dear All,
> Also, I've read about long waiting lines but the Massdrop site says there' available for direct purchase. Can I receive it this December?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


This item has become a massdrop made ready stock item so you don't have to worry about the shipping time as long as you are inside the US. I bought one through a friend in the US on 24th November, Received on 2nd December.


----------



## ReAlien

areek said:


> This item has become a massdrop made ready stock item so you don't have to worry about the shipping time as long as you are inside the US. I bought one through a friend in the US on 24th November, Received on 2nd December.



Thanx! Yes, I'm planning to buy this one through a friend in the US who's going our way soon.


----------



## gtbrown50

ReAlien said:


> Dear All,
> 
> I was planning to buy Violectric V200 (well, frankly speaking, it's Chinese clone), but upon noticing this amp from THX I'm wondering if I should lean toward this one. The problem is that V200 I have listened with my ears and this one I only read reports on the web. Is it worth going to THX 789 over V200 if I will be listening to it thought HE400i headphones? The source will be a portable DAC for now (Opus 1s).
> 
> ...



I know nothing about the V200, but I do have 2 THX AAA 789s. Really like the amp, flexible, nice design and the sound seems to be very accurate compared to the source. Massdrop should have these in stock, but if you absolutely want it in December I'd order it with expedited shipping and then mentally prepare yourself for failure. Massdrop is not known for outstanding shipping speeds.


----------



## ReAlien

gtbrown50 said:


> I know nothing about the V200, but I do have 2 THX AAA 789s. Really like the amp, flexible, nice design and the sound seems to be very accurate compared to the source. Massdrop should have these in stock, but if you absolutely want it in December I'd order it with expedited shipping and then mentally prepare yourself for failure. Massdrop is not known for outstanding shipping speeds.



Thank you for your information on shipping. My friend is going to my country only in January, so no problem with him receiving it after holidays. Why would you need two of them, btw? )


----------



## oqvist

V200 is a bit v-shaped I delta and THX 789 dont to


ReAlien said:


> V200 is more expensive, more difficult to order and has no balanced output (as well as pass through one). Are they so different in the signature? In what way, can you describe?



Sounds like you are working towards getting the THX AAA 789. The amp must have the features you need of course. Do you need balanced output or pass through it´s a given not to go with the V200. 

Long time since I had the V200 it had more of a v-shaped signature I felt but will not go into details more then it really does have a clear signature. And if you really liked it it may suit you better. Of course the only way to know is to get one and compare


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 3, 2018)

oqvist said:


> V200 is a bit v-shaped I delta and THX 789 dont to
> 
> Sounds like you are working towards getting the THX AAA 789. The amp must have the features you need of course. Do you need balanced output or pass through it´s a given not to go with the V200.
> 
> Long time since I had the V200 it had more of a v-shaped signature I felt but will not go into details more then it really does have a clear signature. And if you really liked it it may suit you better. Of course the only way to know is to get one and compare



Well, yeah, it would like someone to just tell me to grab THX 789 instead of V200. ))) I did like the sound of V200 (to be correct, Accurate Audio HPA A200, a Chinese clone of Violectric V200) but the thing is that it is the only headphone amp I ever listened to. I'm a rookie in the headphone department, used to listen through my floor standing speakers only before. My portable DAC Opus 1s is a bit V-shaped, so maybe that would be already enough to make my gear sound more involving and less clinical. I guess there is no way for me to check this but to listen to it by myself, yes. Thank you for your assistance, though.

The problem is that Chinese clone of V200 is 430 USD in my city and the only option to buy cheaper is to go for a refurbished unit in China, which would involve complicated logistics and a risk of buying a poorly restored unit. People were complaining about the varied quality of those clones. Buying original Violectric is out of scope due to its price for me. Having balanced is not a critical thing but I would like to get it to have maximum power to my 400i. Having pre-amp option is a benefit for the future mostly, so not critical.


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 3, 2018)

After reading more reviews, I've just ordered THX AAA 789. I'll gamble.  Will report here as soon as I listen to it.


----------



## Baten

ReAlien said:


> Buying original Violectric is out of scope due to its price for me. Having balanced is not a critical thing but I would like to do it to have maximum power to my 400i. Having pre-amp option is a benefit for the future mostly, so not critical.



Then just buy the thx, yeah


----------



## gtbrown50

ReAlien said:


> Thank you for your information on shipping. My friend is going to my country only in January, so no problem with him receiving it after holidays. Why would you need two of them, btw? )



Good question.....My home office has my desk, where one is located and gets the most use. The second one is about 10ft away and is for use when I'm on my exorcise bike, which I log time on daily. They both connect to my Yggy and are controlled by Roon.


----------



## Arctia

Received mine. I don't have much impression other than it's a solid SS amp that seems way too good for its price. Compare to my SPL Phonitor, the only thing that I noticed it's FAST. It does imaging slightly differently. This little thing is easily matching my SPL in power and clarity.

Pros:
- drive THREE headphones at the same time as long as you are not exceeding the electrical capabilities of the amp. Do your own math before you plug in three ultra-low impedance headphones: 1/Rtotal = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 
- Line pass-through without powering the amp on
- black background. should be fine for your IEMs

Cons:
- Volume pot does not go completely silent
- Super low volume has channel imbalance
- Gain1 position has a crosstalk issue. Probably not audible in most cases, but people have noticed it.


----------



## elira

I think a better pot or a lower gain would have been nice. In my case it’s louder than I would like when the channels get balanced. The single ended output has a lower gain but I feel it sounds better using the balanced output.


----------



## MacMan31

Arctia said:


> Received mine. I don't have much impression other than it's a solid SS amp that seems way too good for its price. Compare to my SPL Phonitor, the only thing that I noticed it's FAST. It does imaging slightly differently. This little thing is easily matching my SPL in power and clarity.
> 
> Pros:
> - drive THREE headphones at the same time as long as you are not exceeding the electrical capabilities of the amp. Do your own math before you plug in three ultra-low impedance headphones: 1/Rtotal = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3
> ...



Do you mean that when turning the volume all the way down that you can still hear audio playing? Also what is crosstalk? I've seen some people mention that the SE headphone jack is not very powerful compared to balanced? I have an Aune X7S and for now I'm using the SE for my headphones. With my HD6XX I have it on low gain with the volume knob at just shy of 12 noon. That's plenty loud for me.


----------



## Arctia

MacMan31 said:


> Do you mean that when turning the volume all the way down that you can still hear audio playing? Also what is crosstalk? I've seen some people mention that the SE headphone jack is not very powerful compared to balanced? I have an Aune X7S and for now I'm using the SE for my headphones. With my HD6XX I have it on low gain with the volume knob at just shy of 12 noon. That's plenty loud for me.



1. Yes, with the volume all the way down, you can still hear music playing
2. Crosstalk refers the signal leaking between left and right channels
3. For this amp, the balanced XLR out is more powerful than SE. Depends on the amp.


----------



## Jthompson300

Arctia said:


> 1. Yes, with the volume all the way down, you can still hear music playing
> 2. Crosstalk refers the signal leaking between left and right channels
> 3. For this amp, the balanced XLR out is more powerful than SE. Depends on the amp.



To be fair I know plenty of amps that can be turned off completely and you can still hear the music even if only faintly, a whole lot of amps actually.


----------



## MacMan31

Arctia said:


> 1. Yes, with the volume all the way down, you can still hear music playing
> 2. Crosstalk refers the signal leaking between left and right channels
> 3. For this amp, the balanced XLR out is more powerful than SE. Depends on the amp.



Well I'm guessing any amp with both SE and balanced will have the latter being more powerful. As for the first two points those kind of turn me off to the 789. Maybe Massdrop can fix those in a future update.


----------



## MacMan31

Jthompson300 said:


> To be fair I know plenty of amps that can be turned off completely and you can still hear the music even if only faintly, a whole lot of amps actually.



My Aune X7S doesn't have that issue.


----------



## Jthompson300

MacMan31 said:


> My Aune X7S doesn't have that issue.



I am not really sure if it is an issue to be honest. It’s a signal being run through that at times can be transmitted depending on source output, maybe at .25vrms it would not happen but at 2 or more then perhaps more likely.


----------



## Arctia

MacMan31 said:


> Well I'm guessing any amp with both SE and balanced will have the latter being more powerful. As for the first two points those kind of turn me off to the 789. Maybe Massdrop can fix those in a future update.


I don't think #2 is an actual issue. This is one of those things that show up on measurements, but it's low enough to be inaudible. 

#1 is a legit preference though. So I understand if this is a dealbreaker for you.


----------



## Jthompson300 (Dec 3, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> My Aune X7S doesn't have that issue.



Perhaps I should give a better example, one time I was at a hotel that was next to Jimmy Swaggarts radio station in Baton Rouge LA, my LCD-XC picked up everything that was being said from his broadcast. The IFI Ican SE can’t even tune into radio and I had nothing else plugged in, electricity is a funny thing is all I am trying to get at.


----------



## MacMan31

Arctia said:


> I don't think #2 is an actual issue. This is one of those things that show up on measurements, but it's low enough to be inaudible.
> 
> #1 is a legit preference though. So I understand if this is a dealbreaker for you.



So is the SE not very good in the 789??


----------



## Jthompson300

MacMan31 said:


> So is the SE not very good in the 789??



You didn’t ask me but It can power my 70 Ohm  LCD-2f to enjoyable levels and sounds good doing it. My opinion is yes, I have had a lot of amps and I think this is the first that was not in balanced or designed to be high output in balanced only that sounded good that way. Beats a Burson Soloist MK2 in my opinion even when not in balanced for more power.


----------



## MacMan31

Jthompson300 said:


> You didn’t ask me but It can power my 70 Ohm  LCD-2f to enjoyable levels and sounds good doing it. My opinion is yes, I have had a lot of amps and I think this is the first that was not in balanced or designed to be high output in balanced only that sounded good that way. Beats a Burson Soloist MK2 in my opinion even when not in balanced for more power.


 
Well for now I just have the HD6XX and 58X. The Aune X7S has more than enough power for them but someday I want to get some good closed back such as the Fostex ones on Massdrop.


----------



## Jthompson300

MacMan31 said:


> Well for now I just have the HD6XX and 58X. The Aune X7S has more than enough power for them but someday I want to get some good closed back such as the Fostex ones on Massdrop.



I do not know much about Aune anything to be honest so I can’t comment on its capabilities but for the price the 789 is a ridiculous amount of amp for a relatively small price. The option for balanced from source to headphones is quite nice once you factor in the power. When using either one of my A&K DAP to balanced out XLR and then the balanced out to my headphones I still can’t believe that the 789 was so cheap. Even before I got my cables I was impressed with the sound when not using the power of the 789, it just sounds good, neutral and just an amplification if what you put in with no coloration at all.


----------



## Arctia

MacMan31 said:


> So is the SE not very good in the 789??


My #2 was related to crosstalk. That's an non-issue imo.

#3 was balanced out having more power than SE. I don't think your current headphones require that much power anyway. 

The only advantage this amp has over your Aune is the super low output impedance. The Aune is pretty much for high impedance headphones. While I can't find an official number, I think the Aune's output impedance is rather high, so it won't be as good for driving low impedance headphones.


----------



## LevPush

MacMan31 said:


> Well for now I just have the HD6XX and 58X. The Aune X7S has more than enough power for them but someday I want to get some good closed back such as the Fostex ones on Massdrop.



The SE output power is 250mW@300ohm on X7S and 200mW@300ohm on 789. I do heard ppl say sound quality on BAL output is noticable better than SE on X7S and others say on 789 the difference between SE and BAL is only the power.


----------



## MacMan31

Jthompson300 said:


> I do not know much about Aune anything to be honest so I can’t comment on its capabilities but for the price the 789 is a ridiculous amount of amp for a relatively small price. The option for balanced from source to headphones is quite nice once you factor in the power. When using either one of my A&K DAP to balanced out XLR and then the balanced out to my headphones I still can’t believe that the 789 was so cheap. Even before I got my cables I was impressed with the sound when not using the power of the 789, it just sounds good, neutral and just an amplification if what you put in with no coloration at all.



Okay. I just want to make sure I'm getting my moneys worth cause I have to factor in the exchange from US to Canadian dollar. I'd be paying about $500 + customs fees. I'm using the Massdrop Grace SDAC with my Aune running off my Macbook Pro.


----------



## MacMan31

LevPush said:


> The SE output power is 250mW@300ohm on X7S and 200mW@300ohm on 789. I do heard ppl say sound quality on BAL output is noticable better than SE on X7S and others say on 789 the difference between SE and BAL is only the power.



Okay. It would just mean I would possibly need to turn the volume up higher on the 789 compared to the X7S. Doesn't balanced headphone out potentially offer a wider soundstage?


----------



## LevPush

MacMan31 said:


> Okay. It would just mean I would possibly need to turn the volume up higher on the 789 compared to the X7S. Doesn't balanced headphone out potentially offer a wider soundstage?


uhhh that I'm not sure, maybe someone can offer a scientific reasoning for that. All I know is these are not truly balanced amps, so they are all converting SE in to BAL out. I mean if you have 6xx its not that hard to get a balanced cable for that.


----------



## MacMan31

LevPush said:


> uhhh that I'm not sure, maybe someone can offer a scientific reasoning for that. All I know is these are not truly balanced amps, so they are all converting SE in to BAL out. I mean if you have 6xx its not that hard to get a balanced cable for that.



Yes I do plan on getting a balanced cable for my 6XX at some point. I thought the 789 was truly balanced as it has balanced inputs on the back? Also if I were to get a balanced DAC to pair with it what would be a good recommendation? I have not seen the Massdrop SDAC balanced get dropped for a long time.


----------



## LevPush

MacMan31 said:


> Yes I do plan on getting a balanced cable for my 6XX at some point. I thought the 789 was truly balanced as it has balanced inputs on the back? Also if I were to get a balanced DAC to pair with it what would be a good recommendation? I have not seen the Massdrop SDAC balanced get dropped for a long time.


See previous post I asked the same question(at page 29 or something). They say this is not truly balanced, so no point to get balanced dac(but you can anyway).


----------



## MacMan31

LevPush said:


> See previous post I asked the same question(at page 29 or something). They say this is not truly balanced, so no point to get balanced dac(but you can anyway).



Hmm okay. Then what is the point of including balanced inputs?


----------



## Arctia

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. Then what is the point of including balanced inputs?


Supposedly the dual XLR-in to balanced-out pathway eliminates several potential extra paths that the RCA-in has to go through.


----------



## MacMan31

Arctia said:


> Supposedly the dual XLR-in to balanced-out pathway eliminates several potential extra paths that the RCA-in has to go through.



Hmm okay. Not really familiar with the technical stuff behind that so maybe it’s no big deal for me.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Dec 4, 2018)

Arctia said:


> Received mine. I don't have much impression other than it's a solid SS amp that seems way too good for its price. Compare to my SPL Phonitor, the only thing that I noticed it's FAST. It does imaging slightly differently. This little thing is easily matching my SPL in power and clarity.
> 
> Pros:
> - drive THREE headphones at the same time as long as you are not exceeding the electrical capabilities of the amp. Do your own math before you plug in three ultra-low impedance headphones: 1/Rtotal = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3
> ...



I dont get your issue with the volume being silent. When i turn the volume all the way down with source still playing its dead silent. I’ve not tried with the unit off since its on all the time.  Everything with a pot will have low volume imbalance. only way around that is digital volume control to my knowledge.
What are the symptoms of the crosstalk issue? I’ve used mine in se before and heard no difference with any gain setting, and I’m using balanced out now with also no difference besides the gain as i switch. Is the issue on balanced and se in low gain or just one of them? Is this something audible or are they using an actual meter to measure crosstalk in the different gain settings?


I gotta edit my statement. I never noticed it before bc i was using low gain and the laptop next to me is kinda noisy with fan. i switched gain and listened and i do hear the music when the volume is turned down all the way.


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 4, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> What are the symptoms of the crosstalk issue? I’ve used mine in se before and heard no difference with any gain setting, and I’m using balanced out now with also no difference besides the gain as i switch. Is the issue on balanced and se in low gain or just one of them? Is this something audible or are they using an actual meter to measure crosstalk in the different gain settings?



I've seen a picture with measurements data on crosstalk issue here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/post-117628


----------



## gtbrown50

MacMan31 said:


> So is the SE not very good in the 789??



I run my 789 on the middle gain setting for all my HPs and haven't had anything except good sound.....typically volume is between 9 and 1 o'clock.


----------



## Arctia

BrotherKathos said:


> I dont get your issue with the volume being silent. When i turn the volume all the way down with source still playing its dead silent. I’ve not tried with the unit off since its on all the time.  Everything with a pot will have low volume imbalance. only way around that is digital volume control to my knowledge.
> What are the symptoms of the crosstalk issue? I’ve used mine in se before and heard no difference with any gain setting, and I’m using balanced out now with also no difference besides the gain as i switch. Is the issue on balanced and se in low gain or just one of them? Is this something audible or are they using an actual meter to measure crosstalk in the different gain settings?
> 
> 
> I gotta edit my statement. I never noticed it before bc i was using low gain and the laptop next to me is kinda noisy with fan. i switched gain and listened and i do hear the music when the volume is turned down all the way.


crosstalk - I clarified that it shouldn't be audible in a later post

low level channel imbalance - yeah theoretically all analog pots will have it. But you can engineer it to not-audible levels. I certainly can't hear any imbalance with my SPL, but that was originally a $700+ amp


----------



## alpovs

gtbrown50 said:


> Good question.....My home office has my desk, where one is located and gets the most use. The second one is about 10ft away and is for use when I'm on my exorcise bike, which I log time on daily. They both connect to my Yggy and are controlled by Roon.


I am curious if you connect one through XLR and the other through RCA or use some kind of XLR switch, or plug/unplug cables by hand when you move from one amp to the other? I figured balanced cables can be run long way without SQ degradation.


----------



## LevPush (Dec 4, 2018)

Just got mine. Compared to my Magni 3, its no brainer. I have no more insight than anything out here. Just one question, is there any benefit to use the magni as a preamp? (something like Modi3->Magni3->THX AAA 789)

Also, through SE, with my HD6XX, I need to use gain III at 12 o'clock to get satisfying volume, so it seems that it is not that powerful through SE. But I already ordered a balanced cable so not too worry about it.


----------



## LevPush (Dec 4, 2018)

Oh yeah another question, when I try to connect the power adapter to the power plug, it's pretty loose, and I can't force it to get any deeper. Take a look at the pic here


----------



## Wil

hey all. 

I have an incoming unit. 

Was wondering if i can use a 24V4A DC LPS to power the unit instead and if there will be any benefits? 

Thanks!


----------



## gto88

I remember there is warning from designer about the power unit to use.
you better check the post back.


----------



## LevPush

Wil said:


> hey all.
> 
> I have an incoming unit.
> 
> ...


The manual says "do not use any other power suppy unit with the 789."


----------



## gto88

there you go, better not. right. it seems void your warranty as said.


----------



## Alcophone

gto88 said:


> I remember there is warning from designer about the power unit to use.
> you better check the post back.



Here you go:


Alcophone said:


> Be careful.


----------



## Wil

Cheers all! 

Will save myself some cash then. 

Thanks again.


----------



## LevPush

gto88 said:


> I remember there is warning from designer about the power unit to use.
> you better check the post back.


Hi there, just want to ask is the connection between power adapter and the plug seem loose? See the attachment here, it feels like it is not entirely inserted, but I have already used some force to push it in. 



LevPush said:


> Oh yeah another question, when I try to connect the power adapter to the power plug, it's pretty loose, and I can't force it to get any deeper. Take a look at the pic here





gto88 said:


> I remember there is warning from designer about the power unit to use.
> you better check the post back.


----------



## MacMan31

gtbrown50 said:


> I run my 789 on the middle gain setting for all my HPs and haven't had anything except good sound.....typically volume is between 9 and 1 o'clock.



Hmm okay. The Aune X7S also has three gain settings and I'm on low gain with any of my headphones. Volume is never past 12 noon. From what I understand it's best to use the lowest gain setting possible for headphones. I could use a higher setting but it likely wouldn't make any difference.


----------



## Jthompson300

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. The Aune X7S also has three gain settings and I'm on low gain with any of my headphones. Volume is never past 12 noon. From what I understand it's best to use the lowest gain setting possible for headphones. I could use a higher setting but it likely wouldn't make any difference.



It all depends on your point of view on using different gain settings. There are people who regularly post on this site that will tell you you only need 1mw to 3mw to power your headphones because of their specs in order to reach the specific DB listed from the manufacturer, others will say that in order to get the full benefit of your headphones you need more power to bring out the true designed sound of your headphones. My advice would be to try everything out, since you got a headphone amp in the first place you are already into the idea that you need some power so play around and see what you like. 

My point of view is that the Aune, just on specs alone would not suit my needs because I am on the side of the fence that my Audeze LCD-2 and even my XC despite the impedance need power to bring them to the level that the manufacturer designed them to be at based on their recommendations and my own take on how it sounds when being run with more or less power to my ears. Even with the 789 I am at 12 o’clock with my LCD-2 at level 3 gain depending on source material, let’s say dsd 2.8-5.6. My Ifi Xcan puts out roughly the same amount as the Aune you have when in balanced out and while it works for my XC and my Elegia it ends up feeling very lacking for my LCD-2.

Play around, see what you like and determine what you feel you might need before you leave it at “it likely won’t make a difference”, after all you took the leap from running from a PC/Cellphone to getting a DAC/AMP so you already have a little faith in more is better.


----------



## gtbrown50

alpovs said:


> I am curious if you connect one through XLR and the other through RCA or use some kind of XLR switch, or plug/unplug cables by hand when you move from one amp to the other? I figured balanced cables can be run long way without SQ degradation.



The Yggy has two sets of RCA outputs, and I run each to a 789. My desk 789 has a 3 foot cable, by exercise area a 15 foot cable. Simple, clean and works perfectly.


----------



## tim0chan

anyone know when the next drop is?


----------



## Baten

tim0chan said:


> anyone know when the next drop is?


considering the drop sold out 2 days ago, gonna go out a limb and say no one knows yet


----------



## tim0chan

Baten said:


> considering the drop sold out 2 days ago, gonna go out a limb and say no one knows yet


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
any cheaper alternatives to tide me over?


----------



## Baten

tim0chan said:


> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> any cheaper alternatives to tide me over?


JDS labs atom has near identical performance compared to THX' single ended.
THX AAA has much more power in its balanced operation, but single ended is about the same 

the JDS is also quite elegant looking.


----------



## tim0chan

Baten said:


> JDS labs atom has near identical performance compared to THX' single ended.
> THX AAA has much more power in its balanced operation, but single ended is about the same
> 
> the JDS is also quite elegant looking.


require th estupid amount of power to run planars tho


----------



## BrotherKathos

tim0chan said:


> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> any cheaper alternatives to tide me over?



I also really like my Schiit asgard 2 that's $100 less than the thx. The THX is only marginally better imo and the asgard works great as a preamp for my external speakers as well.


----------



## Baten

tim0chan said:


> require th estupid amount of power to run planars tho


Emotiva basx a-100 has stupid amounts of power for planars but hasn't got the low noise floor of the thx, nor the low impedance output to drive sensitive headphones. For planars only it is very powerful though if that's what you need.

If you need to drive all kinds of different headphones best to look for a THX unit used, or wait


----------



## BrotherKathos

tim0chan said:


> require th estupid amount of power to run planars tho



My Audeze lcd2c and hifiman he-400i both work great on the Asgard 2. Both are planars with the hifiman only requiring the 12:00 position in low gain for me to reach around 85db


----------



## tim0chan

BrotherKathos said:


> My Audeze lcd2c and hifiman he-400i both work great on the Asgard 2. Both are planars with the hifiman only requiring the 12:00 position in low gain for me to reach around 85db


t50?


----------



## BrotherKathos

tim0chan said:


> t50?



Not sure what t50 means. I'm talking about the Schiit Asgard 2 headphone amp.


----------



## tim0chan

BrotherKathos said:


> Not sure what t50 means. I'm talking about the Schiit Asgard 2 headphone amp.


i was hoping you could shed some light on the atom with t50 and mods. or should i wait till the next drop?


----------



## BrotherKathos

tim0chan said:


> i was hoping you could shed some light on the atom with t50 and mods. or should i wait till the next drop?


I've not heard the Atom so I can't give you any info on it. I'm still not understanding what a t50 is or means. What is a t50?


----------



## tim0chan

BrotherKathos said:


> I've not heard the Atom so I can't give you any info on it. I'm still not understanding what a t50 is or means. What is a t50?


fostex t50 rp


----------



## BrotherKathos

tim0chan said:


> fostex t50 rp


Ahh cool, Never heard any fostex headphones, but thinking about them for my next set of closed backs


----------



## Venture Guy

Buy this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-ultra-linear-amplifier.894783/

Problem solved


----------



## alpovs

gtbrown50 said:


> The Yggy has two sets of RCA outputs, and I run each to a 789. My desk 789 has a 3 foot cable, by exercise area a 15 foot cable. Simple, clean and works perfectly.


Oh, I see. But the DAC and the amps are balanced...


----------



## alpovs

tim0chan said:


> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> any cheaper alternatives to tide me over?


Slightly more expensive - Schiit Jotunheim, but fully balanced unlike this.


----------



## MacMan31

Jthompson300 said:


> It all depends on your point of view on using different gain settings. There are people who regularly post on this site that will tell you you only need 1mw to 3mw to power your headphones because of their specs in order to reach the specific DB listed from the manufacturer, others will say that in order to get the full benefit of your headphones you need more power to bring out the true designed sound of your headphones. My advice would be to try everything out, since you got a headphone amp in the first place you are already into the idea that you need some power so play around and see what you like.
> 
> My point of view is that the Aune, just on specs alone would not suit my needs because I am on the side of the fence that my Audeze LCD-2 and even my XC despite the impedance need power to bring them to the level that the manufacturer designed them to be at based on their recommendations and my own take on how it sounds when being run with more or less power to my ears. Even with the 789 I am at 12 o’clock with my LCD-2 at level 3 gain depending on source material, let’s say dsd 2.8-5.6. My Ifi Xcan puts out roughly the same amount as the Aune you have when in balanced out and while it works for my XC and my Elegia it ends up feeling very lacking for my LCD-2.
> 
> Play around, see what you like and determine what you feel you might need before you leave it at “it likely won’t make a difference”, after all you took the leap from running from a PC/Cellphone to getting a DAC/AMP so you already have a little faith in more is better.



Okay. I’ll have to try out the other gain settings later. 

Also does any one know how to turn off email notifications? Each time someone replies here I get an email which is annoying.


----------



## gto88

go to all your subscribed threads, and click select this thread, and scroll down to bottom of the page.
There is action to choose including not to receive email.


----------



## konstanzzz

Venture Guy said:


> Buy this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-ultra-linear-amplifier.894783/
> 
> Problem solved



Dammit that one sold really quickly.. so hard to find a seller...


----------



## gtbrown50

alpovs said:


> Oh, I see. But the DAC and the amps are balanced...



Both the Yggy and 789 have SE and Balanced.


----------



## Venture Guy

konstanzzz said:


> Dammit that one sold really quickly.. so hard to find a seller...


Subscribe to the forum: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/amplification-for-sale-trade.6551/ and have it email notifications of new threads to you... you'll be alerted in real time


----------



## konstanzzz

Venture Guy said:


> Subscribe to the forum: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/amplification-for-sale-trade.6551/ and have it email notifications of new threads to you... you'll be alerted in real time


Thanks, just subbed. 

Still sucks though cuz the seller in that thread is from Japan. I'm based in Asia too so that woulda been so perfect for me. Ah well


----------



## konstanzzz

How often does this drop go live? Anyone know?


----------



## Baten

konstanzzz said:


> How often does this drop go live? Anyone know?


It was a continuous drop but they sold out much quicker than supply.

Should come back in stock, once new batch comes in. No word on when that will be, can take a month or two actually, realistically.


----------



## MacMan31

konstanzzz said:


> How often does this drop go live? Anyone know?



There is over 3,500 requests including mine so it will come back due to popularity.


----------



## Baten

MacMan31 said:


> There is over 3,500 requests including mine so it will come back due to popularity.


For me it says "269 USERS HAVE REQUESTED THIS PRODUCT"


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> For me it says "269 USERS HAVE REQUESTED THIS PRODUCT"


----------



## Baten

MacMan31 said:


>


I think this is one of the infamous massdrop bugs : p

for you it shows total lifetime, for me it shows since last ended drop. or something..


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> I think this is one of the infamous massdrop bugs : p
> 
> for you it shows total lifetime, for me it shows since last ended drop. or something..



Perhaps so. Either way I'm sure this drop will return. I still can't decide if it's worth upgrading from my Aune X7S. Seems difficult to sell used audio gear online where I live.


----------



## Baten

MacMan31 said:


> Perhaps so. Either way I'm sure this drop will return. I still can't decide if it's worth upgrading from my Aune X7S. Seems difficult to sell used audio gear online where I live.


eBay is always an option but they take a rather hefty cut. Honestly I think an amp upgrade is much more important than DAC upgrade as long as you have a relatively modern output. If you have the $350 this amp is a no-brainer. Best things in head-fi or even audio in years.


----------



## MacMan31

Baten said:


> eBay is always an option but they take a rather hefty cut. Honestly I think an amp upgrade is much more important than DAC upgrade as long as you have a relatively modern output. If you have the $350 this amp is a no-brainer. Best things in head-fi or even audio in years.



Well it would be more like $500 for me with exchange rate to Canada. I'm using the MD Grace SDAC.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I was lucky enough to make the last drop and it arrived yesterday.  Ironically, the same day I shipped back the Monoprice Monolith 788.  Listening to the AAA789 now.  Wow!  I am not sorry I shipped back the Monolith.  I didn't get the "wow" factor with the Monolith.  I have high frequency sensitivity and I found the Monolith to be fatiguing and couldn't listen for very long.  I used the built in EQ and tried to fix it, but in the time I had it, didn't get it quit right.  The 789 isn't fatiguing at all!  Also, the bass on the Monolith seemed bloated compared to the the AAA789.  The 789 has defined powerful bass. I'm listening with a pair of EMU Teaks with a balanced cable.  I'm using gain setting 2 and volume around 9 o'clock. Very strong, clear bass.  I also find the 789 much more detailed.  I'm using an Emotiva DC-1 balanced out into the 789. Nice pairing.  I used the built in DAC in the Monolith and the balanced inputs with the DC-1 and neither sounded as good as the 789 with the DC-1 balanced in.  The Monolith sounded best with the built in DAC but still not as good.  I'm really glad I sent back the Monolith and bought the THX AAA789, much better sounding and cheaper.  Of course this is my opinion and someone else may and probably will disagree with me.  That's why there are different choices out there.


----------



## Baten

4LoveOfSound said:


> I was lucky enough to make the last drop and it arrived yesterday.  Ironically, the same day I shipped back the Monoprice Monolith 788.  Listening to the AAA789 now.  Wow!  I am not sorry I shipped back the Monolith.  I didn't get the "wow" factor with the Monolith.  I have high frequency sensitivity and I found the Monolith to be fatiguing and couldn't listen for very long.  I used the built in EQ and tried to fix it, but in the time I had it, didn't get it quit right.  The 789 isn't fatiguing at all!



That's great to hear. Many people say it is not fatiguing, probably due to the super low distortion!

I had ordered one of the last 6 units of this amp, will ship to hotel during stay in US. Hope parcel arrives in time, hotel handles it properly, etc. This was a big gamble lol
What one does for good audio =p..


----------



## omniweltall

Baten said:


> That's great to hear. Many people say it is not fatiguing, probably due to the super low distortion!
> 
> I had ordered one of the last 6 units of this amp, will ship to hotel during stay in US. Hope parcel arrives in time, hotel handles it properly, etc. This was a big gamble lol
> What one does for good audio =p..


I once took out a 1-year bank loan to purchase a headphone without my wife knowing. The loan stayed much longer than the headphone.


----------



## Baten

omniweltall said:


> I once took out a 1-year bank loan to purchase a headphone without my wife knowing. The loan stayed much longer than the headphone.


Damn what headphone was that? HE-1? baby Orpheus? Stax?

In any case, absolute madlad.


----------



## omniweltall

HE-1000, mate. And it broke in 3 months. Sold it at a huge loss. Oh well, I didn't even like it that much. Had to keep paying off the bank loan for a long time after it was gone LOL. 

Anyway, this taught me to be more critical when buying gears. Lots of hype in this hobby.


----------



## Baten

omniweltall said:


> HE-1000, mate. And it broke in 3 months. Sold it at a huge loss. Oh well, I didn't even like it that much. Had to keep paying off the bank loan for a long time after it was gone LOL.
> 
> Anyway, this taught me to be more critical when buying gears. Lots of hype in this hobby.


Aww I expected a happier story than this. Sad you had to go through that.


----------



## omniweltall

Baten said:


> Aww I expected a happier story than this. Sad you had to go through that.


Oh well, the lesson was well worth $3000


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Been listening 2 hours straight now.  Wow wow wow!  If you have been on the fence about getting one, I suggest you hit purchase as soon as the next drop goes live!


----------



## davisman

omniweltall said:


> HE-1000, mate. And it broke in 3 months. Sold it at a huge loss. Oh well, I didn't even like it that much. Had to keep paying off the bank loan for a long time after it was gone LOL.
> 
> Anyway, this taught me to be more critical when buying gears. Lots of hype in this hobby.



Stay away from new Hifiman products is the lesson to learn. Horrible resale value, and a saturated product stack means you will never be able to sell it for anything close to what you paid for it. Buying used seems to be the way to go, so long as you are comfortable with the sometimes suspect build quality.


----------



## omniweltall

davisman said:


> Stay away from new Hifiman products is the lesson to learn. Horrible resale value, and a saturated product stack means you will never be able to sell it for anything close to what you paid for it. Buying used seems to be the way to go, so long as you are comfortable with the sometimes suspect build quality.


Cannot agree more. I don't even wanna buy them used. USD200 is the most I'll pay for any TOTL Hifiman. 



4LoveOfSound said:


> Been listening 2 hours straight now.  Wow wow wow!  If you have been on the fence about getting one, I suggest you hit purchase as soon as the next drop goes live!


Come come...have a seat...tell us more


----------



## alpovs

omniweltall said:


> HE-1000, mate. And it broke in 3 months. Sold it at a huge loss. Oh well, I didn't even like it that much. Had to keep paying off the bank loan for a long time after it was gone LOL.
> 
> Anyway, this taught me to be more critical when buying gears. Lots of hype in this hobby.


Why didn't you replace/repair them under warranty?..


----------



## omniweltall (Dec 6, 2018)

alpovs said:


> Why didn't you replace/repair them under warranty?..


It was a longer story...anyway I was very disappointed at their customer service and didn't want to deal with them no more. Nor did I want to take the cost and risk of shipping back and forth. Sold it for cheap as the buyer was more willing.

Let's move back on topic.


----------



## alpovs

gtbrown50 said:


> Both the Yggy and 789 have SE and Balanced.


I know, I have them. If both are balanced why would you connect them single-ended?


----------



## konstanzzz

4LoveOfSound said:


> Been listening 2 hours straight now.  Wow wow wow!  If you have been on the fence about getting one, I suggest you hit purchase as soon as the next drop goes live!


Y'all are making me jelly. Now I'll definitely have to get one when the next drop goes live.


----------



## gtbrown50

alpovs said:


> I know, I have them. If both are balanced why would you connect them single-ended?



Its how I roll.


----------



## Arctia

Day 3 report. 

I was basically WOW'ed the first time I heard it. Even with new-toy syndrome fading away, I'm continued to be WOW'ed by this thing. If it weren't for all the measurements telling me it's very neutral, I would swear it's adding something, because I always heard my HD800 as open and airy, but this thing gave it impact. The separation and speed is easily comparable to a SS amp that costs twice as much.

If it were an option, I would definitely pay more money for a better volume pot. It feels kinda cheap and the low volume channel imbalance is more significant than I would like.

Still keeping it though. For the money I'm not sure if there is anything better.


----------



## gto88

Arctia said:


> Day 3 report.
> 
> I was basically WOW'ed the first time I heard it. Even with new-toy syndrome fading away, I'm continued to be WOW'ed by this thing. If it weren't for all the measurements telling me it's very neutral, I would swear it's adding something, because I always heard my HD800 as open and airy, but this thing gave it impact. The separation and speed is easily comparable to a SS amp that costs twice as much.
> 
> ...


If people keep reporting like you do about this amp, I might pull the trigger when next drop is up.
I have listened to Monoprice's thx aaa788 amp, and I have similar impression as yours, but its
dac design sucks, so I returned it, and thinking this amp should at least does as good.

Can some one compares this amp with Audio-GD NFB-1Amp, if you happen to own both.
Thanks.


----------



## snip3r77

Anyone bought this too to compare?
*Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum - By Alex Cavalli*


----------



## flyte3333 (Dec 7, 2018)

AndrewM888 said:


> However SE audio on an RCA can be easily corrupted by CM noise current on the RCA shield which, multiplied by shield impedance, gives a noise voltage.



Not if you wire it like this. Here the shield isn't connected to the RCA cable at all:


----------



## flyte3333

Arctia said:


> Cons:
> - Volume pot does not go completely silent
> - Super low volume has channel imbalance
> - Gain1 position has a crosstalk issue. Probably not audible in most cases, but people have noticed it.



Were these observations with the balanced headphone cable output?

And also balanced input XLR cables?

If not, can you share what the input cables were and the headphone cable output was.

Cheers!


----------



## elira

Em2016 said:


> Were these observations with the balanced headphone cable output?
> 
> And also balanced input XLR cables?
> 
> ...


I’ve problems one and two, well the only real problem is the channel imbalance, using XLR input and low impedance dynamic headphones in gain 1. I don’t think the crosstalk is audible but for me the amp sounds best using balanced output.


----------



## flyte3333

elira said:


> I’ve problems one and two, well the only real problem is the channel imbalance, using XLR input and low impedance dynamic headphones in gain 1. I don’t think the crosstalk is audible but for me the amp sounds best using balanced output.



Hi, thanks for the reply.

So these cons you noted were with balanced XLR input - but on the headphone cable side, were these cons with balanced output too or single ended output headphone cable?


----------



## elira

Em2016 said:


> Hi, thanks for the reply.
> 
> So these cons you noted were with balanced XLR input - but on the headphone cable side, were these cons with balanced output too or single ended output headphone cable?


Mainly with the balanced output, single ended it has less gain and that helps to get the pot to a better position.


----------



## flyte3333

elira said:


> Mainly with the balanced output, single ended it has less gain and that helps to get the pot to a better position.



Thanks. I may have missed it earlier, but can you remind me which low impedance cans? Or was it IEMs?


----------



## elira

Em2016 said:


> Thanks. I may have missed it earlier, but can you remind me which low impedance cans? Or was it IEMs?


Grado GS2000e and Cleer Next. With the HD58X or LCD2C I don't have problems.


----------



## flyte3333

elira said:


> Mainly with the balanced output, single ended it has less gain and that helps to get the pot to a better position.



Is it under 12 o'clock on the volume knob where you see/hear your issues with Gain #1 ? Where over 12 o'clock is ok? Or problems even show up above 12 o'clock also?

i.e. what's the pot position where things cross from good to bad with gain #1 for you?


----------



## elira

Em2016 said:


> Is it under 12 o'clock on the volume knob where you see/hear your issues with Gain #1 ? Where over 12 o'clock is ok? Or problems even show up above 12 o'clock also?
> 
> i.e. what's the pot position where things cross from good to bad with gain #1 for you?


At ~9 o'clock it starts to be balanced. At 12 o'clock there are definitely not issues but it's too loud. It also depends on the output of the DAC, mine outputs 5V, which is +16dBu.


----------



## flyte3333

elira said:


> At ~9 o'clock it starts to be balanced. At 12 o'clock there are definitely not issues but it's too loud. It also depends on the output of the DAC, mine outputs 5V, which is +16dBu.



Have you tried RCA input cables on the THX789 instead of balanced - and does it help at all? 

Or does your DAC only have balanced XLR outputs?


----------



## elira

Em2016 said:


> Have you tried RCA input cables on the THX789 instead of balanced - and does it help at all?
> 
> Or does your DAC only have balanced XLR outputs?


I haven't tried the RCA outputs of my DAC. I tested using a Bifrost Multibit but it sounded dull in comparison to my R2R-1, not sure if it's because of the single ended input of the amp or because of the DAC. But definitely there was less gain.


----------



## AndrewM888

Em2016 said:


> Not if you wire it like this. Here the shield isn't connected to the RCA cable at all:


Your diagram and description is a bit hazy. What connector and what shield termination are you making at the two ends of your cable? 
Remember, CM current from the various mechanisms behaves mostly like a current source. It will find a path to flow. So it's a matter of either making sure it doesn't flow on a path that's corruptable, or minimizing the Vdrop if it does.


----------



## Yviena

@AndrewM888  Hmm my soekris dac1541 measures better single ended but i loose 3dB SNR, would this cable https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable# be a good rca-xlr cable for the THX 789 to minimize CM noise?


----------



## AndrewM888

Yviena said:


> @AndrewM888  Hmm my soekris dac1541 measures better single ended but i loose 3dB SNR, would this cable https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable# be a good rca-xlr cable for the THX 789 to minimize CM noise?


Yes exactly! Good find, and good price.


----------



## AndrewM888

AndrewM888 said:


> Your diagram and description is a bit hazy. What connector and what shield termination are you making at the two ends of your cable?
> Remember, CM current from the various mechanisms behaves mostly like a current source. It will find a path to flow. So it's a matter of either making sure it doesn't flow on a path that's corruptable, or minimizing the Vdrop if it does.


See the RCA to XLR Benchmark cable Yviena found. That's how it's done properly.
Your 1 side floating shield approach doesn't provide a separate path for CM current to flow. In your setup, CM current will flow in your star quad negative wire, adding ground bounce that'll manifest as noise/hum.


AndrewM888 said:


> Your diagram and description is a bit hazy. What connector and what shield termination are you making at the two ends of your cable?
> Remember, CM current from the various mechanisms behaves mostly like a current source. It will find a path to flow. So it's a matter of either making sure it doesn't flow on a path that's corruptable, or minimizing the Vdrop if it does.


Check out the Benchmark RCA to XLR cable Yviena found. That's how to cover Ll the bases.


----------



## Yviena

I really like that the amplifier has adjustable gain, gain 2 would be too much for my HD800 running balanced if the dac is also using balanced out, as it is with SE out from DAC to XLR in amp i still find it too loud on some music where it's approaching 9 o'clock even with -4dBFS in my software player to account for inter-sample peaks, no way would i be able to run gain 1/2 if i ran the dac through the balanced outs, or setting the software volume to 0dBFS, ideally i would have wanted a even lower gain.


----------



## TheLastZealot

Anyone used this amp for Senn HD800? Any impressions?

I've heard that HD800 is not suited for solid state amps. But other than listening to music I also do some recordings, so I'd like this set-up to be good for monitoring as well. I'm not sure about going into tube amps


----------



## Arctia

Yeah I use HD800 with mine. You either used to treble or you're not. IMO you really need to mod the HD800, or EQ it, regardless of amp.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Arctia said:


> Yeah I use HD800 with mine. You either used to treble or you're not. IMO you really need to mod the HD800, or EQ it, regardless of amp.



Have you thought of going to another headphone all together? Is the reason you keep the 800 the really good sound stage i’ve heard about and then just tweak it a bit for preference?


----------



## snip3r77

This or liquid crimson ??


----------



## Yviena

TheLastZealot said:


> Anyone used this amp for Senn HD800? Any impressions?
> 
> I've heard that HD800 is not suited for solid state amps. But other than listening to music I also do some recordings, so I'd like this set-up to be good for monitoring as well. I'm not sure about going into tube amps



Try the SDR mod for the HD800, and see if you like it.


----------



## Arctia

BrotherKathos said:


> Have you thought of going to another headphone all together? Is the reason you keep the 800 the really good sound stage i’ve heard about and then just tweak it a bit for preference?


The sound stage is unmatched. A lot of headphones does left to right sound stage well, but HD800 is one of the few with 3D like presentation.


----------



## MacMan31

Arctia said:


> The sound stage is unmatched. A lot of headphones does left to right sound stage well, but HD800 is one of the few with 3D like presentation.



The ear cups on the HD800 look massive. How comfortable are those headphones and would they fit a smaller head? I have HD6XX and 58X right now.


----------



## flyte3333

Yviena said:


> @AndrewM888  Hmm my soekris dac1541 measures better single ended but i loose 3dB SNR, would this cable https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable# be a good rca-xlr cable for the THX 789 to minimize CM noise?



Any idea where to buy it? Anywhere in the US?

Can't see it listed for sale anywhere (MusicDirect, Amazon etc)


----------



## BrotherKathos

Em2016 said:


> Any idea where to buy it? Anywhere in the US?
> 
> Can't see it listed for sale anywhere (MusicDirect, Amazon etc)


I’m almost positive the link to buy the cable is in the post you replied to. I was able to get to the product purchase page by clicking it. are you on a mobile device possibly?


----------



## flyte3333

BrotherKathos said:


> I’m almost positive the link to buy the cable is in the post you replied to. I was able to get to the product purchase page by clicking it. are you on a mobile device possibly?



This is what I see, on desktop. No 'add to cart' or 'buy now'.


----------



## BrotherKathos

unless they ran out since they only listed 4 in stock and that was at leat a day ago with lots of people looking at this thread. I myself almost got 2 of them just to test out a ground issue I’m having


----------



## flyte3333

BrotherKathos said:


> unless they ran out since they only listed 4 in stock and that was at leat a day ago with lots of people looking at this thread. I myself almost got 2 of them just to test out a ground issue I’m having



Noted, thanks. I'll send them an email.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Em2016 said:


> This is what I see, on desktop. No 'add to cart' or 'buy now'.


probably sold out. They should get more later if there is demand. try contacting benchmark to see.


----------



## chungjun

Not sure if this has been posted... if anyone is interested - adapter (4-pin-XLR to 2-5mm-TRRS) is available on Massdrop.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-4-pin-xlr-to-2-5mm-trrs-adapter#overview


----------



## Yviena

Em2016 said:


> This is what I see, on desktop. No 'add to cart' or 'buy now'.



Hmm you can maybe ask bluejeanscable to make you a rca xlr cable with the wiring/cable  configuration listed on the benchmark site.


----------



## flyte3333

Yviena said:


> Hmm you can maybe ask bluejeanscable to make you a rca xlr cable with the wiring/cable  configuration listed on the benchmark site.



Good idea - will ask Benchmark first and then BJC as a fallback.


----------



## xLoud

Anyone compared THX AAA 789 with Schiit Lyr 3? Although Lyr 3 is priced high.


----------



## alpovs

xLoud said:


> Anyone compared THX AAA 789 with Schiit Lyr 3? Although Lyr 3 is priced high.


Schiit Lyr is a *tube *_single-ended_ amp. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Any tube amp is colored IMHO.


----------



## flyte3333 (Dec 12, 2018)

AndrewM888 said:


> See the RCA to XLR Benchmark cable Yviena found. That's how it's done properly.
> Your 1 side floating shield approach doesn't provide a separate path for CM current to flow. In your setup, CM current will flow in your star quad negative wire, adding ground bounce that'll manifest as noise/hum.
> 
> Check out the Benchmark RCA to XLR cable Yviena found. That's how to cover Ll the bases.



Hi Andrew,

Is this a typo on the Benchmark site:
*"The separate connection from the RCA ground to pin 2 of the XLR provides a dedicated path for the audio ground reference. "*

Should that be XLR Pin #3?

Because the description says:
_"One half of the star-quad ties Pin 3 of the XLR to the shield of the RCA connector.  The other half of the star-quad ties pin 2 of the XLR to the center pin on the RCA.  The braided shield ties pin 1 of the XLR to the shield of the RCA."
_
From Rane:


----------



## Audiodoc

My amp is working fine with SE outputs. Yesterday made a XLR silver cable for my HD650s. Whenever I increase the volume in any of the gain modes the overcurrent protection is activated and the red led is lit. I have not used the ground pin in the XLR male plug just pin 1 left positive pin 2 left negative pin 3 right positive and pin 4 right negative.


----------



## elira

Audiodoc said:


> My amp is working fine with SE outputs. Yesterday made a XLR silver cable for my HD650s. Whenever I increase the volume in any of the gain modes the overcurrent protection is activated and the red led is lit. I have not used the ground pin in the XLR male plug just pin 1 left positive pin 2 left negative pin 3 right positive and pin 4 right negative.


If you have a multimeter check that there's no continuity between any two pins. You may have shorted something when building the cable.


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 12, 2018)

oqvist said:


> Sounds like you are working towards getting the THX AAA 789. The amp must have the features you need of course. Do you need balanced output or pass through it´s a given not to go with the V200.
> 
> Long time since I had the V200 it had more of a v-shaped signature I felt but will not go into details more then it really does have a clear signature. And if you really liked it, it may suit you better. Of course, the only way to know is to get one and compare


 By some wicked twist of fate I have ordered both of them!  THX 789 is waiting in US and Chinese clone of HPA-A200 is in Beijing now. Will have them both on my hands in January and will be able to A/B them to choose the one I like best and sell the other one. Guess it's the only wait to avoid regrets of not trying the other one.))) P.S. I am mentally prepared that I'll like them both and leave them standing one above the other. Hope my wife bears with me))


----------



## escalibur

Any information when will this amp be available again?


----------



## AndrewM888

Em2016 said:


> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Is this a typo on the Benchmark site:
> *"The separate connection from the RCA ground to pin 2 of the XLR provides a dedicated path for the audio ground reference. "*
> ...


Good catch! Looks like a typo. You could email them to report it.


----------



## omniweltall (Dec 13, 2018)

@gtbrown50,

I see that you have both the THX AAA 789 and Burson CV2+. Which one is better? Can you provide a comparison please? That would serve as a good benchmark. 

Cheers mate.


----------



## Audiodoc

elira said:


> If you have a multimeter check that there's no continuity between any two pins. You may have shorted something when building the cable.


Yes you were right. One of the strands from the left positive was intermittently touching the ground. A few heat shrink and now it runs like a charm. Thanks


----------



## AndrewM888

escalibur said:


> Any information when will this amp be available again?


I hear a drop is imminent.


----------



## draculr

Does anyone know if the RCA out is variable or fixed volume?


----------



## Alcophone

draculr said:


> Does anyone know if the RCA out is variable or fixed volume?


Fixed - it's a passthrough and it works even when the amp is off. It's not a preamp.


----------



## gtbrown50

omniweltall said:


> @gtbrown50,
> 
> I see that you have both the THX AAA 789 and Burson CV2+. Which one is better? Can you provide a comparison please? That wold serve as a good benchmark.
> 
> Cheers mate.



I wish I could, but I purchased the Burson some time ago, pre-Schiit. As its a Dac and Amp, I never used just the Amp alone. When I went the Multibit route, Gumby then Yggy, the Burson was boxed and put on a shelf. Its still sitting on the shelf, and I'm planning on selling it after Christmas.


----------



## omniweltall

gtbrown50 said:


> I wish I could, but I purchased the Burson some time ago, pre-Schiit. As its a Dac and Amp, I never used just the Amp alone. When I went the Multibit route, Gumby then Yggy, the Burson was boxed and put on a shelf. Its still sitting on the shelf, and I'm planning on selling it after Christmas.


I will compare it with the Burson CV2+ later, since mine has arrived.


----------



## Wil

Just got it in the mail! 

Paired with my Denafrips Terminator ( balanced ) - sounds excellent with either the Audio Technica ADX5000 or ZMF Eikon. 

Just the amp to show that price is often not commensurate with performance.


----------



## Yviena

I actually came from a monitor mini (said to have the same SQ as phonitor 2 just with less functions), and i find this amp to be somewhat better in transients(faster etc) while soundstage/imaging/layering feels the same or so close that I can't  distinguish  between it.

Bass/sub I found to be also a little bit better with the 789 while the phonitor is a little more leaner there, or it could be because 789 has balanced output while phonitor mini is unbalanced.


----------



## AxelCloris

Let's please keep the discussion within the Posting Guidelines. Gear for sale should be discussed in the For Sale/Trade forums. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Marlowe

To follow up on Andrew of THX's post a couple of days about an imminent drop, Cee_Tee of Massdrop posted yesterday that additional stock is coming in and should be in store in about a week. I"m still trying to decide between this now or saving up for a Monoprice Liquid Platinum in February or March. (I'm retired on a fixed income, so have to plan my purchases carefully.) The LP is almost certainly a better overall amp, but I don't have a really good SS amp, and I do have a good tube hybrid (CTH) and OTL tubes (Valhalla 2).


----------



## MacMan31

I'm still very much undecided about joining the next drop for this amp. Unless I were to spend over $1,000 I can't see an amp being noticeably better than the Aune X7S. I paid $220 Canadian for that used.


----------



## Zbell

MacMan31 said:


> I'm still very much undecided about joining the next drop for this amp. Unless I were to spend over $1,000 I can't see an amp being noticeably better than the Aune X7S. I paid $220 Canadian for that used.


That's a good amp. I would only consider getting this amp if you're driving low impedence cans.


----------



## MacMan31

Zbell said:


> That's a good amp. I would only consider getting this amp if you're driving low impedence cans.



For now I'm only driving the Sennheiser HD6XX and 58X. I'm only on low gain and never go past 12 o'clock on the volume dial. It's paired with the MD Grace SDAC. But I'm looking into possibly getting these: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-tr-x00-mahogany-headphones


----------



## Zbell

MacMan31 said:


> For now I'm only driving the Sennheiser HD6XX and 58X. I'm only on low gain and never go past 12 o'clock on the volume dial. It's paired with the MD Grace SDAC. But I'm looking into possibly getting these: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-tr-x00-mahogany-headphones


While I think the Aune and Fostex will sound good together, it technically doesn't adhear to the 8 to 1 rule. I can also vouch that the purple hearts and hd600s sound absolutely fantastic on the 789.


----------



## MacMan31

Zbell said:


> While I think the Aune and Fostex will sound good together, it technically doesn't adhear to the 8 to 1 rule. I can also vouch that the purple hearts and hd600s sound absolutely fantastic on the 789.



Hmm okay. Well I'm not yet running balanced on my X7S. Just using SE. I'm hoping to get a balanced cable in the future and an XLR to 1/4" adapter just in case I need it. I have never listened to any of the Fostex headphones but I've heard that the Purplehearts have more bass than the Mahogany.


----------



## Por_Tu_Guy

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the: *whateveryoucallthisstack stack!!!!*
Massdrop Stack ? Minus the Ares of course


----------



## MacMan31

Por_Tu_Guy said:


> Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the: *whateveryoucallthisstack stack!!!!*
> Massdrop Stack ? Minus the Ares of course



How would you describe the THX 789 compared to the Aune X7S? I have the latter and I'm considering the former.


----------



## flyte3333

AndrewM888 said:


> The OP's RCA to XLR will solve most of these issues by providing a preferred path for CM noise current to flow, leaving the SE negative wire unadulterated.



Hi @AndrewM888 

With the properly made RCA to XLR cable - how do we know the CM noise current will flow from the RCA sleeve connection to XLR Pin #1?

i.e. how do we know this current won't actually flow through the RCA shield (signal -ve) to XLR Pin #3?

Is it assuming the path from RCA shield to XLR Pin #1 is the lowest impedance path?

And a separate question:

If you use star-quad cable for an RCA to RCA cable - if the cable has a shield which is connected at both ends of the cable, to the RCA sleeve at each end - does this then provide a separate path for CM noise current to flow along the length of the cable? The star-quad shielded cable then has separate signal, return and shield?


----------



## AndrewM888

Hi @Em2016.

XLR pin 1 Zin is < 1 ohms to ground, and XLR pin 3 Zin is much higher around 1 meg ohms to ground. CM current can be modeled as a current source. According to Kirchoff's Current Law and the ratio of these impedance pathways, a proper RCA to XLR-3 cable will force the vast majority of CM current to flow into pin 1. The pin 3 wire carries negligible CM current, so incurs no hum-inducing voltage drop.

However with shielded star quad RCA to RCA, your signal return wires are in parallel with the shield. These impedances are in same ballpark as each other, so the CM current flowing in your signal- wire can generate non-negligible voltage across it per V=IZ, causing some hum. You can mitigate this by throwing lots of copper at it and keeping the length short. e.g. heavy braid shield, heavy gauge signal wire, and length 1 ft or less.


----------



## flyte3333

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi @Em2016.
> 
> XLR pin 1 Zin is < 1 ohms to ground, and XLR pin 3 Zin is much higher around 1 meg ohms to ground. CM current can be modeled as a current source. According to Kirchoff's Current Law and the ratio of these impedance pathways, a proper RCA to XLR-3 cable will force the vast majority of CM current to flow into pin 1. The pin 3 wire carries negligible CM current, so incurs no hum-inducing voltage drop.
> 
> However with shielded star quad RCA to RCA, your signal return wires are in parallel with the shield. These impedances are in same ballpark as each other, so the CM current flowing in your signal- wire can generate non-negligible voltage across it per V=IZ, causing some hum. You can mitigate this by throwing lots of copper at it and keeping the length short. e.g. heavy braid shield, heavy gauge signal wire, and length 1 ft or less.



Thanks! Makes lots of good sense.


----------



## Alcophone

Volken said:


> Could you someday compare all your amps, very interested how Gustard H20 compares to THX.


Between the H20 and the THX, the H20 with Sparkos SS3602s wins, then the THX, then the H20 with stock opamps.

In terms of tonality and sound stage, the H20+Sparkos combo and the THX amp are on par, I would say, but the THX blurs transients compared to the H20+Sparkos combo, sounding quite sterile in comparison as a result. There's more sparkle, slam, punch, heft - whatever you want to call it - to the H20+Sparkos. It's a more engaging, exciting presentation, putting me more in touch with the artist if that makes any sense. It feels more like I'm listening to someone playing an instrument than to a recording of someone playing an instrument. It's hard to identify what's going on when listening to just the THX amp, as there's nothing obviously objectionable, but going back and forth between the two with primarily recorded music (from 24/192 FLAC down to Spotify Premium), the difference becomes quite apparent.

Soften the transients a bit further, add a bit of noise and distortion, and you get close to the sound of the H20 with stock opamps. This also doesn't sound bad by itself, but as so often in audio, the deficiencies become clearer once they are gone. Both the THX amp and the H20 with Sparkos opamps sound more clear, clean and refined than the H20 with stock opamps.

All of the above is using the Yggdrasil's balanced out, with a Y-splitter cable into both amps balanced inputs at the same time, and using the MrSpeakers Ether Flow 1.0 with stock DUM cable out of the amps' 4-pin XLR jacks.


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 18, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Between the H20 and the THX, the H20 with Sparkos SS3602s wins, then the THX, then the H20 with stock opamps.
> 
> In terms of tonality and sound stage, the H20+Sparkos combo and the THX amp are on par, I would say, but the THX blurs transients compared to the H20+Sparkos combo, sounding quite sterile in comparison as a result. There's more sparkle, slam, punch, heft - whatever you want to call it - to the H20+Sparkos. It's a more engaging, exciting presentation, putting me more in touch with the artist if that makes any sense. It feels more like I'm listening to someone playing an instrument than to a recording of someone playing an instrument. It's hard to identify what's going on when listening to just the THX amp, as there's nothing obviously objectionable, but going back and forth between the two with primarily recorded music (from 24/192 FLAC down to Spotify Premium), the difference becomes quite apparent.
> 
> ...



Very interesting. Is there an easy way (w/o soldering) to upgrade THX 789 with these Sparkos SS3602s, I wonder? If yes, how many of those would I need?

Checked the pictures of THX's internals on the other site and it seems like there is no easy way to upgrade. But, if I find the specialist to do the soldering, which op amps should be changed for Sparkos ones?


----------



## Alcophone

ReAlien said:


> Very interesting. Is there an easy way (w/o soldering) to upgrade THX 789 with these Sparkos SS3602s, I wonder? If yes, how many of those would I need?
> 
> Checked the pictures of THX's internals on the other site and it seems like there is no easy way to upgrade. But, if I find the specialist to do the soldering, which op amps should be changed for Sparkos ones?


That's a question for @AndrewM888, I suppose.

Note that the SS3602 is a dual opamp, and the SS3601 is the single version. Amps with socketed opamps use different numbers and types of them. According to the teardown on ASR, the THX amp uses 2x TL062C, 4x OPA564 and 5x OPA1602A. At least the TL062C and the OPA1602A have eight pins, so mayyyybe they could be replaced. But they seem to use the smaller SO-8 package, so adapters to DIP-8 would be needed.


----------



## alpovs (Dec 18, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> That's a question for @AndrewM888, I suppose.
> 
> Note that the SS3602 is a dual opamp, and the SS3601 is the single version. Amps with socketed opamps use different numbers and types of them. According to the teardown on ASR, the THX amp uses 2x TL062C, 4x OPA564 and 5x OPA1602A. At least the TL062C and the OPA1602A have eight pins, so mayyyybe they could be replaced. But they seem to use the smaller SO-8 package, so adapters to DIP-8 would be needed.


I remember the justification for not making this amp fully balanced was the high cost of certain opamps. The opamps in the THX listed here cost from $0.20 to $3.30 each. I wonder what those expensive opamps are that didn't allow THX to make this amp fully balanced.

Alcophone, it's not really a question to you. I quoted your post because you listed the opamps in the THX.


----------



## alpovs

Alcophone said:


> Between the H20 and the THX, the H20 with Sparkos SS3602s wins, then the THX, then the H20 with stock opamps.
> 
> In terms of tonality and sound stage, the H20+Sparkos combo and the THX amp are on par, I would say, but the THX blurs transients compared to the H20+Sparkos combo, sounding quite sterile in comparison as a result. There's more sparkle, slam, punch, heft - whatever you want to call it - to the H20+Sparkos. It's a more engaging, exciting presentation, putting me more in touch with the artist if that makes any sense. It feels more like I'm listening to someone playing an instrument than to a recording of someone playing an instrument. It's hard to identify what's going on when listening to just the THX amp, as there's nothing obviously objectionable, but going back and forth between the two with primarily recorded music (from 24/192 FLAC down to Spotify Premium), the difference becomes quite apparent.
> 
> ...


@Alcophone, do you notice in any way while listening that this amp in not fully balanced? I believe the H20 is fully balanced, and the Jotunheim that you also have if I recall correctly is known to be fully balanced. The creator of Yggdrasil adds one bit to its resolution for the fact that it's balanced (four 20-bit DAC chips result in 21-bit). I suppose we lose that extra bit of resolution when listening to Yggdrasil through the THX. I suppose it's not audible but I wonder if it's felt in any way.


----------



## Alcophone

alpovs said:


> @Alcophone, do you notice in any way while listening that this amp in not fully balanced? I believe the H20 is fully balanced, and the Jotunheim that you also have if I recall correctly is known to be fully balanced. The creator of Yggdrasil adds one bit to its resolution for the fact that it's balanced (four 20-bit DAC chips result in 21-bit). I suppose we lose that extra bit of resolution when listening to Yggdrasil through the THX. I suppose it's not audible but I wonder if it's felt in any way.



Before I say anything, I should mention that I'm not an electrical engineer, just an enthusiast like you trying to wrap my head around certain concepts. Happy to get corrected where needed.

Merely using two n-bit DACs per channel does not result in n+1 bits of resolution if you are completely symmetrical, i.e. you feed both DAC chips inverse values, or the same value but with negative reference voltage on one chip (if that's possible from an engineering point of view, I don't know). It just doubles the difference between the effective signal levels, but you're not suddenly doubling the amount of distinct levels you can generate.
What you could do is change the lowest bit in what you send to one of the DACs. That should basically double the number of levels you can achieve as the difference between the levels of the two DAC chips. The resulting slight asymmetry should not matter.

If that is indeed what Schiit does in the Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit, then you would only lose that extra bit by completely throwing away one of the two signals per channel coming in via XLR. But even in single ended DACs with XLR input for convenience only there should be something that combines the two signals, converting them to single ended while retaining the extra resolution (much like what Yggy's single ended output should do) and properly rejecting transmission noise.

Anyway, on Massdrop, Andrew said this:


			
				AndrewMason said:
			
		

> Errata: The signal path internally is fully differential throughout (per Putzeys), but is NOT truly balanced in a few sections. We preserve the full signal integrity but we avoid increasing the retail price for no measurable benefit.


So that extra bit should not get lost. Even if it were, I don't know that I would be able to hear that - certainly only with very select recordings at high volume.

In another post, Andrew mentioned this article: https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4429968/2/The-G-word--How-to-get-your-audio-off-the-ground
The way I understand it is that you can be differential by transmitting one variable signal with the actual audio, and a fixed zero level signal in addition. Distortion along the way affects both roughly equally, so if you subtract one from the other (differential), the error still gets cancelled out.
That makes sense to me when merely sending a signal between components, but less so in an amplifier. If the THX amp does this internally, it would have to first combine the balanced signal coming in to one variable signal and one zero signal, and then carry them through. The supposed benefit is a reduction of expensive components, so this way only the variable signal would need to get amplified, I suppose (instead of having two amplifiers per channel, which you need to be fully balanced). But that would also mean that any transmission interference would get amplified in one of the two signals, almost completely ruining the benefits of the differential approach. But maybe the amp correction magic is applied here. Or a less powerful amplifier can be used for the zero signal since the amplitude of any induced noise should remain low. I would love for Andrew to shed more light on this.


----------



## alpovs

Alcophone said:


> Or a less powerful amplifier can be used for the zero signal since the amplitude of any induced noise should remain low.


Or maybe the zero signal is not amplified at all...


----------



## sikki-six (Dec 19, 2018)

Can some of you compare this to the built-in amp of RME ADI-2 DAC? Is it noticeably better / is there a noticeable difference?

RME's amp gets somewhat mixed reviews, often basically just "not sounding as good" as other stand-alone SS amps. In my case it replaced Lyr 2 with tighter lows and allover cleaner sound. Thanks!


----------



## Alcophone

alpovs said:


> Or maybe the zero signal is not amplified at all...


Maybe, but then the error component becomes asymmetrical, so merely being differential doesn't remove it anymore. And I'm not sure there's another reliable reference that allows you to determine the error to correct it in the main signal.


----------



## alphanumerix1

sikki-six said:


> Can some of you compare this to the built-in amp of RME ADI-2 DAC? Is it noticeably better / is there a noticeable difference?
> 
> RME's amp gets somewhat mixed reviews, often basically just "not sounding as good" as other stand-alone SS amps. In my case it replaced Lyr 2 with tighter lows and allover cleaner sound. Thanks!



short answer yes it is better.


----------



## sikki-six

alphanumerix1 said:


> short answer yes it is better.



Cheers, If you could elaborate a bit I'd be very happy!


----------



## BrotherKathos

Drop is live again if anyone wants one


----------



## gtb75

I pulled the trigger on one this time around. I will be curious to see how it compares to the Liquid Platinum (which has been awesome).


----------



## voxie

Hi all, if anyone is interested...ZReviews just posted a review on his youtube channel. Make sure to wear headphones when listening


----------



## Suppa92

looks like a very promising good amp


----------



## CEE TEE

_We're close to selling half of the inventory we received..._

Here are a couple of video reviews that I have seen:

Lachlan Fennen  

ZReviews  

Josh Valour Review  

*Thank you everyone for your interest and support!  Happy listening...*


----------



## Por_Tu_Guy

MacMan31 said:


> How would you describe the THX 789 compared to the Aune X7S? I have the latter and I'm considering the former.


Sorry for the late reply I've not had much time to compare the two before I could give a decent answer.
Hopefully you read this before Massdrop's current stock runs out.
And I just want to point out I'm no professional reviewer, I'm giving my experience so far with the THX 789.
And of course sound is subjective and YMMV.
And forgive my poor Audiophile jargon.

Headphones I used for comparison: LCD-3, ZMF Auteur, Focal Elex, HD 6XX.
DAC: Denafrips Ares

OK I would say the THX 789 is cleaner sounding which is saying something since I the X7S is pretty clean sounding already. The X7S is slightly warmer sounding but not as spacious and more congested. 
Also the X7S is more boomy in the bass and not as clear in the treble while the THX 789 is more precise and reference sounding. It's great for anyone looking for a more transparent neutral amp.
The THX considerably more powerful and brings out more impact and dynamics in harder to drive headphones. Also the sound differences are more noticeable with less sensitive headphones like the HD6XX and Auteur than the Focals where I guess the THX 789's superior power shines.
I generally prefer the more natural tone of class A amps but I can appreciate the technical superiority of the THX 789. Some people are calling it Endgame, I wouldn't go that far but i would say it a great neatral amp for its price range and maybe higher but definitely not my personal Endgame.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Marlowe

At least two dozen or so have been sold in the short time since Cee Tee posted (I ordered one a bit earlier). So I assume there will be no day 2 of this drop.


----------



## Povell42 (Dec 20, 2018)

Por_Tu_Guy said:


> Sorry for the late reply I've not had much time to compare the two before I could give a decent answer.
> Hopefully you read this before Massdrop's current stock runs out.
> And I just want to point out I'm no professional reviewer, I'm giving my experience so far with the THX 789.
> And of course sound is subjective and YMMV.
> ...


I am interested in your opinion of the 789 with the LCD-3.  I have been searching for a good amp to pair with the my LCD3 that isn't super expensive.  

By the way, I would be using a modi multibit DAC.


----------



## cubed4life

Since this amp is not truly balanced, is there a benefit using a balanced dac? I guess what I'm asking is if the amp uses the signal from a balanced dac and a se dac the same way.


----------



## alphanumerix1

doubt it, good implementation > balanced memes


----------



## ayobreezie

cubed4life said:


> Since this amp is not truly balanced, is there a benefit using a balanced dac? I guess what I'm asking is if the amp uses the signal from a balanced dac and a se dac the same way.



Zeos on zreviews said there was a noticeable difference in power in his review.. So if anything, gives more juice for hungry headphones at the very least.


----------



## Suopermanni

@alphanumerix1 Hey, a Brisbanite! Did you order from this drop or the last one? Have you got yours yet?


----------



## Povell42

Aright...I just ordered one!  I hope I like it.  Its weird... the site said it is in stock and will ship within one business day.  But, at check out is says it will ship on Dec 25th.  Are they not counting Friday the 21st or Monday the 24th as business days?? Plus the are shipping it on a non-business day?


----------



## Suopermanni

Povell42 said:


> Aright...I just ordered one!  I hope I like it.  Its weird... the site said it is in stock and will ship within one business day.  But, at check out is says it will ship on Dec 25th.  Are they not counting Friday the 21st or Monday the 24th as business days?? Plus the are shipping it on a non-business day?



That's just a shipping estimate, probably the worst case scenario I guess.


----------



## Marlowe

Povell42 said:


> Aright...I just ordered one!  I hope I like it.  Its weird... the site said it is in stock and will ship within one business day.  But, at check out is says it will ship on Dec 25th.  Are they not counting Friday the 21st or Monday the 24th as business days?? Plus the are shipping it on a non-business day?


Under my transactions on the MD site it says shipping December 25, but the email confirmation says December 26. FWIW, my last couple of MD orders on items in stock shipped a day or so earlier than stated, which may be a pessimistic estimate to give them some protection from impatient customers. But then again, it is Christmas.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Povell42 said:


> Aright...I just ordered one!  I hope I like it.  Its weird... the site said it is in stock and will ship within one business day.  But, at check out is says it will ship on Dec 25th.  Are they not counting Friday the 21st or Monday the 24th as business days?? Plus the are shipping it on a non-business day?



Mine has already shipped. If you added the extra $$ 2 day shipping option at check out it ships faster. I ordered mine right after drop started at 11:30 and got the shipping notification at 9:30.


----------



## ayobreezie

BrotherKathos said:


> Mine has already shipped. If you added the extra $$ 2 day shipping option at check out it ships faster. I ordered mine right after drop started at 11:30 and got the shipping notification at 9:30.


I don't know if this is true.. I ordered at 10am, with 2 day shipping and it just shows order confirmation, but not shipped.


----------



## MacMan31

Por_Tu_Guy said:


> Sorry for the late reply I've not had much time to compare the two before I could give a decent answer.
> Hopefully you read this before Massdrop's current stock runs out.
> And I just want to point out I'm no professional reviewer, I'm giving my experience so far with the THX 789.
> And of course sound is subjective and YMMV.
> ...



Thank you for your reply. No worries for being late. So I just watched Zeos review this amp and just noticed above that Josh Valour also did a review so I'll have to watch that. Someone in the comments on YT for Zeos review asked if this was an upgrade from the Aune X1S/X7S. Zeos reply that indeed it was. My music takes have certainly changed over the years and now I listen a lot more to instrumental music like movie scores and classical as well as Jazz, blues, classic rock and some Pop now and then. I did the currency conversion to Canadian dollars and the THX 789 would be $506 not including customs fees once it crosses the border. At that price is it still worth that much?


----------



## BrotherKathos

ayobreezie said:


> I don't know if this is true.. I ordered at 10am, with 2 day shipping and it just shows order confirmation, but not shipped.


hmm, maybe its a mixture of when you ordered and where you live then. I’m fairly close to their shipping center and ordered within minutes of drop coming live


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Thank you for your reply. No worries for being late. So I just watched Zeos review this amp and just noticed above that Josh Valour also did a review so I'll have to watch that. Someone in the comments on YT for Zeos review asked if this was an upgrade from the Aune X1S/X7S. Zeos reply that indeed it was. My music takes have certainly changed over the years and now I listen a lot more to instrumental music like movie scores and classical as well as Jazz, blues, classic rock and some Pop now and then. I did the currency conversion to Canadian dollars and the THX 789 would be $506 not including customs fees once it crosses the border. At that price is it still worth that much?



I would say so since many are comparing the amp to others costing thousands and the thx is competing well


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I would say so since many are comparing the amp to others costing thousands and the thx is competing well



Hmm okay. Perhaps I'll bite the bullet. I wonder how much my Aune X7S would go for? I was just watching the Josh Valour review and he was saying that the THX 789 sounded a bit "dry" like there is not much warmth to it. Is that going to be a downside for the genres of music I listen to (see my last comment)?


----------



## Marlowe (Dec 20, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> hmm, maybe its a mixture of when you ordered and where you live then. I’m fairly close to their shipping center and ordered within minutes of drop coming live


I think its just random and a matter of luck. I ordered approximately two hours after it went live and live just over twenty miles from the MD warehouse in NJ and it hasn't shipped yet. When I bought the Elex last month, it shipped the same day. Of course, MD standard shipping by Fed Ex Smart Post is annoying; even though the warehouse and I are both in NJ and not far apart, the package first goes in the opposite direction to a Fed Ex facility in Pennsylvania and then back to another Fed Ex facility--in the exact same town as the MD warehouse! However, since I am so close the whole process usually only takes 3-4 business days and USPS conveniently delivers it to a mail locker in the lobby of my building. Since this isn't a Christmas present I didn't bother paying for more expedited shipping.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Dec 20, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. Perhaps I'll bite the bullet. I wonder how much my Aune X7S would go for? I was just watching the Josh Valour review and he was saying that the THX 789 sounded a bit "dry" like there is not much warmth to it. Is that going to be a downside for the genres of music I listen to (see my last comment)?



The sound you will get from the thx is going to more dependent on your source. I listen to all the types of music you mentioned and use a schiit multibit dac along with some audeze planars and get no sense of dryness at all from the thx. My setup is very organic, smooth and detailed. It will get dry and edgy if i switch my dac to my balanced SMSL SU-8 however. The THX will make differences in source character more apparent, so I recommend r2r or multibit dacs with it if you want smooth warm sound. If you must have a delta sigma dac, I'd stay away from sabre dacs unless you want to spend extra money on usb cleaners or usb to spdif convertors to take the delta sigma edge down a bit. The modi 3 and eitr is a great match with the thx for a budget source stack. Its akm dacs are pretty smooth when converted to spdif via eitr.

I see you have the modi multibit. THat with the eitr is amazingl good with the thx imo.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Marlowe said:


> I think its just random and a matter of luck, I ordered approximately two hours after it went live and live just over twenty miles from the MD warehouse in NJ and hasn't shipped yet.
> when I bought the Elex last month, it shipped the same day. Of course, MD standard shipping is annoying; even though the warehouse and I are both in NJ and not far apart, the package first goes in the opposite direction to a Fed Ex facility in Pennsylvania and then back to another Fed Ex facility--in the exact same town as the MD warehouse! However, since I am so close the whole process usually only takes 3-4 business days and since this isn't a Christmas present I didn't bother paying for more expedited shipping.



Luck seems to be the factor then. You are closer to the ship center than me as I'm north of you near Portland.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> The sound you will get from the thx is going to more dependent on your source. I listen to all the types of music you mentioned and use a schiit multibit dac along with some audeze planars and get no sense of dryness at all from the thx. My setup is very organic, smooth and detailed. It will get dry and edgy if i switch my dac to my balanced SMSL SU-8 however. The THX will make differences in source character more apparent, so I recommend r2r or multibit dacs with it if you want smooth warm sound. If you must have a delta sigma dac, I'd stay away from sabre dacs unless you want to spend extra money on usb cleaners or usb to spdif convertors to take the delta sigma edge down a bit. The modi 3 and eitr is a great match with the thx for a budget source stack. Its akm dacs are pretty smooth when converted to spdif via eitr.
> 
> I see you have the modi multibit. THat with the eitr is amazingl good with the thx imo.



I do not have a modi multibit. I have the MD Grace SDAC running off my Macbook Pro via USB. My music files in iTunes are 320Kbps as I cannot hear any noticeable different between that and Lossless.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> I do not have a modi multibit. I have the MD Grace SDAC running off my Macbook Pro via USB. My music files in iTunes are 320Kbps as I cannot hear any noticeable different between that and Lossless.


ahh my bad, I got you confused. The grace dac uses akm chips so its probably pretty smooth for a delta sigma implementation. I've never heard one, but I've seen many positive impressions from them. The eitr would probably help the sdac become a bit smoother if you wanted that little bit of extra musicality. I've got 2 eitrs since I liked how they improved my systems and am probably going to get a third to pair with this second thx amp and a smsl m9 dac I got on the cheap from massdrop.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> ahh my bad, I got you confused. The grace dac uses akm chips so its probably pretty smooth for a delta sigma implementation. I've never heard one, but I've seen many positive impressions from them. The eitr would probably help the sdac become a bit smoother if you wanted that little bit of extra musicality. I've got 2 eitrs since I liked how they improved my systems and am probably going to get a third to pair with this second thx amp and a smsl m9 dac I got on the cheap from massdrop.



What is an eitr?


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> What is an eitr?


Its a usb to spdif converter. It cleans up the usb signal and allows the dac to do its job better. I've found it very usefull in taking the edge or glare off by delta sigma dacs. It made a very noticable change with all the dacs I hooked to it. These bing the SMSL SU-8, Topping D50, Schiit modi 3. and Schiit Modi multibit. Some might tell you its snake oil, but I've found it to be very beneficial. Its not going to cause world shaking changes, but for me its very useful since I'm treble sensitive and the eitr softens the sound a bit. Makes the thx even more fatigue free. 

http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Its a usb to spdif converter. It cleans up the usb signal and allows the dac to do its job better. I've found it very usefull in taking the edge or glare off by delta sigma dacs. It made a very noticable change with all the dacs I hooked to it. These bing the SMSL SU-8, Topping D50, Schiit modi 3. and Schiit Modi multibit. Some might tell you its snake oil, but I've found it to be very beneficial. Its not going to cause world shaking changes, but for me its very useful since I'm treble sensitive and the eitr softens the sound a bit. Makes the thx even more fatigue free.
> 
> http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr



Hmm okay. But there is no SPDIF input on the MD Grace SDAC or the THX 789.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. But there is no SPDIF input on the MD Grace SDAC or the THX 789.



Oh. I did not know the sdac was just usb only. Probably to save on cost. The eitr is only for use with dacs so the thx won't have any inputs.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Oh. I did not know the sdac was just usb only. Probably to save on cost. The eitr is only for use with dacs so the thx won't have any inputs.



No worries. The SDAC sounds pretty clean as it is. I don't hear any "noise" during quiet parts of a song or when nothing is playing.


----------



## Marlowe

I use the Eitr with a Modi MB and it makes a small to moderate, but clearly noticeable, improvement with Tidal out of my PC. But unfortunately, you can only use it with a DAC that has a coaxial input; it won't work with a USB only DAC like the SDAC.


----------



## MacMan31

Marlowe said:


> I use the Eitr with a Modi MB and it makes a small to moderate, but clearly noticeable, improvement with Tidal out of my PC. But unfortunately, you can only use it with a DAC that has a coaxial input; it won't work with a USB only DAC like the SDAC.



I'm not worried about it. I like the SDAC so I'm not about to "upgrade" it any time soon.


----------



## maxxevv

BrotherKathos said:


> ahh my bad, I got you confused. The grace dac uses akm chips so its probably pretty smooth for a delta sigma implementation. I've never heard one, but I've seen many positive impressions from them. The eitr would probably help the sdac become a bit smoother if you wanted that little bit of extra musicality. I've got 2 eitrs since I liked how they improved my systems and am probably going to get a third to pair with this second thx amp and a smsl m9 dac I got on the cheap from massdrop.



That's stretching reality a fair bit there.  Measurements for the performance of the Eitr don't correlate with what's suggested here. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-schiit-eitr-usb-to-s-pdif-bridge.3753/


----------



## bluenight

Was there a THX 888 MD coming next year. I think someone mentioned that. Maybe better to wait for that?


----------



## BrotherKathos

maxxevv said:


> That's stretching reality a fair bit there.  Measurements for the performance of the Eitr don't correlate with what's suggested here.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-schiit-eitr-usb-to-s-pdif-bridge.3753/



Another thing that stretches reality a bit is how i prefer my modi multibit with my thx aaa to my D50. If I blindly believed in Amir's measurments i would convince myself that there is no way the mimby could sound better since the D50 measures way waaaaaay better. But the fact is to my ears the mimby sounds better. Measurements are a nice caveat, but hardly the deciding factor in audible performance.


----------



## Suppa92

Watched z reviews about this. It seems like thx 789 is the best amp he ever heard. 
is this better than the sound quality of HeadAmp GS-X mini ?


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

Suppa92 said:


> Watched z reviews about this. It seems like thx 789 is the best amp he ever heard.
> is this better than the sound quality of HeadAmp GS-X mini ?



I think the GS-X mini will be better sheerly by virtue of having a stepped attenuator (as an option). That being said, you're comparing a $350 amp to an $1800+ amp. As much of a giantkiller as the THX 789 is, that's one hell of a hill to climb.


----------



## elira

My only issue with the amp is the volume pot, they could do a more expensive version with better volume control, but for the price it’s going to be hard to find something better.


----------



## Suppa92

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> I think the GS-X mini will be better sheerly by virtue of having a stepped attenuator (as an option). That being said, you're comparing a $350 amp to an $1800+ amp. As much of a giantkiller as the THX 789 is, that's one hell of a hill to climb.


how about HeadAmp Gilmore Lite then? it's also under $500.


----------



## ReAlien

Wow, they've sold around 500 since this last drop began. Should be nearing the end of the drop, I guess.


----------



## Alcophone

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> I think the GS-X mini will be better sheerly by virtue of having a stepped attenuator (as an option). That being said, you're comparing a $350 amp to an $1800+ amp. As much of a giantkiller as the THX 789 is, that's one hell of a hill to climb.


An interesting comparison would be the Benchmark HPA4 (THX AAA 888, stepped attenuator without pops, etc.). ~10x the price, of course.


----------



## ReAlien

Alcophone said:


> An interesting comparison would be the Benchmark HPA4 (THX AAA 888, stepped attenuator without pops, etc.). ~10x the price, of course.



Wow, looks like a serious confirmation of industry's support for AAA tech.


----------



## alphanumerix1

lets not hype this a giant killer as it really isn't its a very well performing amp for sure, one of the better ones below 1k.

I'd take anything zeos says with a massive grain of salt personally.


----------



## oqvist

Lets stop judging amps based on  what we pay for them? I see all the money comparisons always.


----------



## BrotherKathos

oqvist said:


> Lets stop judging amps based on  what we pay for them? I see all the money comparisons always.



I know right? I'll go ahead and fab up an o2 amp that's encased in solid gold and uses precision cut diamonds for knobs. Then have the pope christen it and call it the baby jesus. Cost is your soul.....

Any takers?

Seriously though, money can make a difference when we are strictly talking parts, but good engineering can always make great tech on the cheap. Look how far we've come in just the last 50 years. Anyone who looks at the price of this amp and thinks it can't stand against 1k+ amps purely because of its price tag is one of P.T. .Barnum's favorite people.


----------



## omniweltall

CEE TEE said:


> _We're close to selling half of the inventory we received..._
> 
> Here are a couple of video reviews that I have seen:
> 
> ...



Great job with this amp, Cee Tee


----------



## AndrewM888

bluenight said:


> Was there a THX 888 MD coming next year. I think someone mentioned that. Maybe better to wait for that?


Nothing in the works.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

bluenight said:


> Was there a THX 888 MD coming next year. I think someone mentioned that. Maybe better to wait for that?


It's $350, mate. I dont recommend waiting that long for somethimg better. Buy now amd enjoy it.

We live in good times, guys. HD6XX+THX 789+Mimby would be a great setup, comparable to system much more expensive.


----------



## Speednut

I joined the drop yesterday, and also bought a RME ADI-2 Dac to pair with it, since i don't have a standalone Dac. My current headamp/dac is broken at the moment, and listening to music straight from the motherboard of my pc is terrible.
Really looking forward to trying this amp, it already shipped, so now the waiting game begins.


----------



## jmac1516

Speednut said:


> I joined the drop yesterday, and also bought a RME ADI-2 Dac to pair with it, since i don't have a standalone Dac. My current headamp/dac is broken at the moment, and listening to music straight from the motherboard of my pc is terrible.
> Really looking forward to trying this amp, it already shipped, so now the waiting game begins.


The RME ADI-2 is a dac/amp combo so you are planning on bypassing the amp in the RME for the 789?  The 789 may sound better but just curious why you went with the RME then.  Looks like a very nice unit, btw.


----------



## Speednut

jmac1516 said:


> The RME ADI-2 is a dac/amp combo so you are planning on bypassing the amp in the RME for the 789?  The 789 may sound better but just curious why you went with the RME then.  Looks like a very nice unit, btw.



I'm planning on trying out both. I also got the ADI in case i wanna try different amps in the future, and then i have a dac to use. And it has EQ, and balanced output for futureprof.


----------



## jsmiller58

omniweltall said:


> I once took out a 1-year bank loan to purchase a headphone without my wife knowing. The loan stayed much longer than the headphone.


Dare I ask if the wife lasted longer than the loan?


----------



## Marlowe (Dec 21, 2018)

Marlowe said:


> I think its just random and a matter of luck. I ordered approximately two hours after it went live and live just over twenty miles from the MD warehouse in NJ and it hasn't shipped yet. When I bought the Elex last month, it shipped the same day. Of course, MD standard shipping by Fed Ex Smart Post is annoying; even though the warehouse and I are both in NJ and not far apart, the package first goes in the opposite direction to a Fed Ex facility in Pennsylvania and then back to another Fed Ex facility--in the exact same town as the MD warehouse! However, since I am so close the whole process usually only takes 3-4 business days and USPS conveniently delivers it to a mail locker in the lobby of my building. Since this isn't a Christmas present I didn't bother paying for more expedited shipping.


To update, I received a shipping notice late this morning, well in advance of the two dates I had (my transactions page said 12/25, the purchase confirmation said 12/26). Given the general shipping volume this weekend, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if the package, at best, doesn't spend Christmas in Pennsylvania.

BTW, I'm somewhat surprised to see that the drop is still active (and still selling robustly). Cee Tee posted yesterday afternoon that they had sold nearly half the available units and I think they've sold a good deal more than they had sold when he posted.


----------



## bluenight

AndrewM888 said:


> Nothing in the works.


 Thanks good to know


omniweltall said:


> It's $350, mate. I dont recommemd waitimg that long for somethimg better. Buy now amd enjoy it.
> 
> We live in good times, guys. HD6XX+THX 789+Mimby would be a great setup, comparable to system much more expensive.


 Yeah i ordered one yesterday. My preference is very clean and distortion free amps. And this seem to be it. I can here som mudyness being added from my external amp RS02 feed from my hugo 2 dac compared to listening direct from hugo 2. Of course my RS02 adds other good stuff like wider soundstage more powerfullsound and deeper bass. Maybe this will be cleaner.


----------



## omniweltall

jsmiller58 said:


> Dare I ask if the wife lasted longer than the loan?


She is still here, mate


----------



## alpovs

The drop ended.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> The drop ended.



That’s a good thing for me. I can’t afford it right now. Perhaps I’ll wait until March and get it for my birthday.


----------



## Povell42

Marlowe said:


> Under my transactions on the MD site it says shipping December 25, but the email confirmation says December 26. FWIW, my last couple of MD orders on items in stock shipped a day or so earlier than stated, which may be a pessimistic estimate to give them some protection from impatient customers. But then again, it is Christmas.


Okay, so they shipped today. However, I may be going out of town right after Christmas, so with the threat that were going to ship on Christmas day...  I change the shipping speed to 4 business days so they would arrive after I got back.  But now they are estimated to arrive at my house the day after Christmas.  I wonder if the 2 business day shipping would have had them arrive on Christmas Eve.   What a mess. Dang, estimated shipping dates!  HAHA.


----------



## torii

I ordered and paid for expedited shipping...they mailed yesterday night and suppose to arrive before 8pm tonight.  also the drop is over now.


----------



## Povell42

I am very curious how the Schiit Freya or Saga preamps sound with the 789.  I have heard mixed reviews of those, but with such a transparent amp like the 789.... Anyone have these to test and give impressions?


----------



## Povell42

torii said:


> I ordered and paid for expedited shipping...they mailed yesterday night and suppose to arrive before 8pm tonight.  also the drop is over now.


Holy Crap!  I am so glad I bought them last night or I would have been pissed having the drop close today.  I also wish I kept the $15 shipping and not change it to $5 shipping.


----------



## devante1977

torii said:


> I ordered and paid for expedited shipping...they mailed yesterday night and suppose to arrive before 8pm tonight.  also the drop is over now.



Expedited shipping is not next day air. No way they would ship something in less than 24 hours for 15 dollars


----------



## torii

devante1977 said:


> Expedited shipping is not next day air. No way they would ship something in less than 24 hours for 15 dollars



I dont make crap up.  just saying what fedex says..."_Service _ FedEx Standard Overnight"


----------



## devante1977

torii said:


> I dont make **** up.  just saying what fedex says..."_Service _ FedEx Standard Overnight"



I didn't say you did. I was clarifying what Fed Ex means by expedited vs actual next day delivery and setting a realistic expectation.


----------



## torii

ok...maybe fedex off...just relaying the info I have available.


----------



## devante1977 (Dec 21, 2018)

torii said:


> ok...maybe fedex off...just relaying the info I have available.



Yeah...when massdrop says they shipped they most likely send you that notice when the label is printed...but nothing physical went out. Which in turns sends a notice to FedEx letting you (and me, I did expedited as well) that they received the shipping info, maybe even actually have it on hand but not quite sent out. Even UPS has something coming for me saying it was supposed to on my doorstep on Wednesday when it was shipped Tuesday. I'm still waiting.


----------



## torii

well if I dont post again tonight, means I didnt receive it like fedex says.  my 1st massdrop, so I have no idea how they ship


----------



## devante1977

I expect them monday or wednesday. Massdrop is good at sending them out its just the accuracy of these shipping tracking sites can be downright laughable. Having said that...they aren't as inaccurate as USPS


----------



## torii

well it is what it is....
*Marriah D.* (Massdrop Community Support)

Dec 21, 6:49 PM PST

Hi Jeff,

Marriah here. Thank you for contacting Massdrop Community Support. I apologize if your tracking information has not yet updated to show your order was shipped. I would be happy to provide more information.

I do show that the package was shipped yesterday and tracking indicates that it should be delivered today. You can reference this

That being said, as I understand you have not yet received your package, I am happy to refund the cost of the express shipping you paid for. You should see this $15.00 refund in 3-5 business days.

Please allow some additional time for the package to arrive, as it is likely still on its way for you. Thank you for your understanding. Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Best Wishes,
Marriah


----------



## torii

super quick massdrop communication which is very cool


----------



## devante1977

Yeah. Massdrop service has been solid since I have started using them. Googlad to hear you dig them. My most recent fed ex update says it comes in Monday


----------



## torii

it probably wouldnt even be a thing if not during xmas holiday...living in a large city with high crime....not being home for deliveries is a thing.


----------



## devante1977

If you have a fed ex store by you , you can have them send it there to pick up yourself if security is a concern. I did that for a guitar since no one would have been home to sign for it.


----------



## Zachik

devante1977 said:


> If you have a fed ex store by you , you can have them send it there to pick up yourself if security is a concern. I did that for a guitar since no one would have been home to sign for it.


Unfortunately, FedEx website not always cooperating on this one... speaking from experience as of this past week!
Had a happy ending personally, but was very anxious since FedEx website wouldn't let me change to a FedEx location (located less than 1/4 mile from my place).


----------



## Suppa92

If this is not truly balanced, then there is no true benefit of providing a balanced headphone connection except the high power. Am I correct?
truly balanced amps normally have better noise rejection but it's sad to see such a wonderful amp doesn't use that features even it has balanced input and balanced headphone out.


----------



## ayang02

Hey guys, I also joined the drop and got my shipping notification.

In the mean time, I need to figure out which DAC to use or purchase. Has anyone here tried to use one of those portable DAC/amps as the DAC for the THX 789? I have the Sony PHA-3 and Chord Mojo sitting around doing nothing at the moment. I may just purchase a decent 3.5 mm to RCA cable and hook it up with Mojo/PHA-3 to pair with the 789 for starters.

I'm also interested to hear if anyone has tried to use a Chord Qutest with the 789.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Suppa92 said:


> If this is not truly balanced, then there is no true benefit of providing a balanced headphone connection except the high power. Am I correct?
> truly balanced amps normally have better noise rejection but it's sad to see such a wonderful amp doesn't use that features even it has balanced input and balanced headphone out.



I'm pretty sure it still provides all the audible benefits of fully balanced including the noise reduction, otherwise why would the specs on the info sheet change from se to balanced. Just look at the crosstalk specs between the two. The developer has addressed this question a few times already. They felt the added cost of fully balanced did not transmit into enough of a performance gain to make it worthwhile. I'm glad they did what they did as we get to have an amazing sounding amp for much lower than others.


----------



## King CATalyst

Dac suggestion in the $300-$400 range? Please no schiit products, I've heard alot of them and I'm not a fan.


----------



## King CATalyst

ayang02 said:


> Hey guys, I also joined the drop and got my shipping notification.
> 
> In the mean time, I need to figure out which DAC to use or purchase. Has anyone here tried to use one of those portable DAC/amps as the DAC for the THX 789? I have the Sony PHA-3 and Chord Mojo sitting around doing nothing at the moment. I may just purchase a decent 3.5 mm to RCA cable and hook it up with Mojo/PHA-3 to pair with the 789 for starters.
> 
> I'm also interested to hear if anyone has tried to use a Chord Qutest with the 789.


 I've been using my mojo as a dac with it for awhile now and bass is a bit anemic imo, ymmv.


----------



## BrotherKathos

King CATalyst said:


> Dac suggestion in the $300-$400 range? Please no schiit products, I've heard alot of them and I'm not a fan.


smsl m9 is $450 on amazon and uses dual akm 4490 with dsd support. Or you could join the massdrop for $140 and get a steal. Its the polar opposite of a schiit dac most likely so you might like it.


----------



## BrotherKathos

also if you want punchy bass the smsl su8 has the most bass and sparkle out of the balanced connection. Its only $200 and uses dual sabre 9038s.


----------



## gtbrown50

Povell42 said:


> Aright...I just ordered one!  I hope I like it.  Its weird... the site said it is in stock and will ship within one business day.  But, at check out is says it will ship on Dec 25th.  Are they not counting Friday the 21st or Monday the 24th as business days?? Plus the are shipping it on a non-business day?



I buy a lot off of Massdrop, and shipping is by far their weakest point. They miss dates, and if you do receive an email that your item has shipped, it really means that the label has been printed. I've purchased items with expedited shipping that have had the label printed next day, but the carrier doesn't receive the item for four more days....two days after the delivery date in the email. Standard shipping will drive many crazy watching something meander across the country, even sit for a day or two before finally being delivered.


----------



## Zachik

King CATalyst said:


> Dac suggestion in the $300-$400 range? Please no schiit products, I've heard alot of them and I'm not a fan.


Massdrop's RDAC (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac) if you're patient.
Unfortunately, drop inactive at the moment, but I have a strong feeling it will be back... and it is worth the wait, IMHO!


----------



## gto88

Or you can check out Topping’s D50 or wait for D70.
When D70 is out, I would expect it on mass drop as they have many topping’s
Product on and off.


----------



## King CATalyst

Zachik said:


> Massdrop's RDAC (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac) if you're patient.
> Unfortunately, drop inactive at the moment, but I have a strong feeling it will be back... and it is worth the wait, IMHO!


 I was actually a part of the drop but canceled due to the extended wait time lol....i still plan on getting one eventually but need something in the mean time.


----------



## King CATalyst

BrotherKathos said:


> also if you want punchy bass the smsl su8 has the most bass and sparkle out of the balanced connection. Its only $200 and uses dual sabre 9038s.


 That's actually one of the dacs I've been considering...hmmm


----------



## BrotherKathos

King CATalyst said:


> That's actually one of the dacs I've been considering...hmmm


 version 2 of that dac is out now and its even better rhan the d50 as far as measurements go if that is something you put lots of stock in. I’ve got v1 and its noticeably brighter and has more bass and seperation than my d50 when using balanced with my thx 789. If you want a balanced dac its the best you will find other than the rme adi 2 dac which is 1k+


----------



## alpovs

Zachik said:


> Massdrop's RDAC (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac) if you're patient.
> Unfortunately, drop inactive at the moment, but I have a strong feeling it will be back... and it is worth the wait, IMHO!


Do you remember how much it was?


----------



## MacMan31

Zachik said:


> Massdrop's RDAC (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac) if you're patient.
> Unfortunately, drop inactive at the moment, but I have a strong feeling it will be back... and it is worth the wait, IMHO!



Do you recall what the price was when the drop was live previously?


----------



## alpovs

King CATalyst said:


> Dac suggestion in the $300-$400 range? Please no schiit products, I've heard alot of them and I'm not a fan.


You've heard a lot "of them" but not "them". Unless you have some political or religious reasons not to go with Schiit I'd suggest trying their Modi Multibit. It sounds noticeably better than my AKM or Sabre DACs. I am only writing this because it seems you never tried multibit/R2R DACs. That other multibit DAC from Massdrop mentioned earlier may also be good if not better.


----------



## Mizicke5273

alpovs said:


> Do you remember how much it was?





MacMan31 said:


> Do you recall what the price was when the drop was live previously?




It was $350 for the Massdrop x Airist Audio R-2R DAC.


----------



## BrotherKathos

alpovs said:


> You've heard a lot "of them" but not "them". Unless you have some political or religious reasons not to go with Schiit I'd suggest trying their Modi Multibit. It sounds noticeably better than my AKM or Sabre DACs. I am only writing this because it seems you never tried multibit/R2R DACs. That other multibit DAC from Massdrop mentioned earlier may also be good if not better.



I totally agree. He mimby with eitr and thx is a stack made in heaven. Pairs absolutely perfectly with my audeze lcd2c, and i have quite a few different delta sigma dacs using sabres, akm, and ti chips. mimby beats them all imo, even with its terrible measurements hehe.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Mizicke5273 said:


> It was $350 for the Massdrop x Airist Audio R-2R DAC.




If it goes live again I might have to give it a try. I’ve been flirting with getting either a rme adi 2 dac or gungir multibit, but maybe the airist would be just as good? Or maybe no different than the mimby? It will be nice when the reviews come in.


----------



## King CATalyst

alpovs said:


> You've heard a lot "of them" but not "them". Unless you have some political or religious reasons not to go with Schiit I'd suggest trying their Modi Multibit. It sounds noticeably better than my AKM or Sabre DACs. I am only writing this because it seems you never tried multibit/R2R DACs. That other multibit DAC from Massdrop mentioned earlier may also be good if not better.


 To be specific i owned both mimby and bimby at one point and mimby was ok for the price, Bimby was to bright for my taste.


----------



## BrotherKathos

King CATalyst said:


> To be specific i owned both mimby and bimby at one point and mimby was ok for the price, Bimby was to bright for my taste.



if mimby was just ok, and you dont like bright dacs, then absolutely stay away from all delta sigma dacs. This includes the topping d50, smsl su8, rme adi 2, and pretty much everything out there aside from super dark old school stuff. Its going to be a tough search for you.


----------



## Marlowe (Dec 22, 2018)

My THX is currently scheduled to be delivered on Wednesday. (With regular free shipping that's not bad for Christmas week if it holds; I live in NJ directly across the Hudson from Manhattan, about twenty miles to the NE of MD's NJ warehouse. The package is currently in Pennsylvania, LOL.) I'm currently using a Mimby and Eitr (with CTH and Valhalla 2) and see no desperate need to upgrade to DACs in my price range. (That's a good thing, since after buying the Elex last month and the THX this week, I'll have to wait 2-3 months even for DACs in my sub-$500 fixed income retiree budget.) I'm just curious if anyone sees the D50 or the balanced SU-8 (though consensus seems to be that a balanced input does not really add much or anything to the THX) as upgrades to Mimby/Eitr (I can still use the Eitr with both of them) or merely, as I suspect, sidegrades? (Yeah, I know ASR thinks they are upgrades, but I take their objectivist reviews, witch almost totally ignore actually listening to the gear being reviewed, with a very large grain of salt.)

Luckily for my finances, more interesting upgrade possibilities are still at least a few months away. The balanced Topping D70 (probably $600) looks very intriguing pending (non-ASR) reviews. But I am guessing that the $350 Massdrop Airist R-2R will become available again sometime in the next few months. Those in the community who had the opportunity to listen to prototypes thought it was an upgrade to Mimby. Plus it makes a neat stack with the THX or CTH. It's not balanced, but again that does not really appear to be an issue with the THX.


----------



## Zachik

BrotherKathos said:


> If it goes live again I might have to give it a try. I’ve been flirting with getting either a rme adi 2 dac or gungir multibit, but maybe the airist would be just as good? Or maybe no different than the mimby? It will be nice when the reviews come in.


I would say the RDAC is better than Mimby and Bimby, and is very close to Gumby. Taking price into account - the RDAC is a steal, IMHO


----------



## BrotherKathos

Marlowe said:


> My THX is currently scheduled to be delivered on Wednesday. (With regular free shipping that's not bad for Christmas week if it holds; I live in NJ directly across the Hudson from Manhattan, about twenty miles to the NE of MD's NJ warehouse. The package is currently in Pennsylvania, LOL.) I'm currently using a Mimby and Eitr (with CTH and Valhalla 2) and see no desperate need to upgrade to DACs in my price range. (That's a good thing, since after buying the Elex last month and the THX this week, I'll have to wait 2-3 months even for DACs in my sub-$500 fixed income retiree budget.) I'm just curious if anyone sees the D50 or the balanced SU-8 (though consensus seems to be that a balanced input does not really add much or anything to the THX) as upgrades to Mimby/Eitr (I can still use the Eitr with both of them) or merely, as I suspect, sidegrades? (Yeah, I know ASR thinks they are upgrades, but I take their objectivist reviews, witch almost totally ignore actually listening to the gear being reviewed, with a very large grain of salt.)
> 
> Luckily for my finances, more interesting upgrade possibilities are still at least a few months away. The balanced Topping D50 (probably $600) looks very intriguing pending (non-ASR) reviews. But I am guessing that the $350 Massdrop Airist R-2R will become available again sometime in the next few months. Those in the community who had the opportunity to listen to prototypes thought it was an upgrade to Mimby. Plus it makes a neat stack with the THX or CTH. It's not balanced, but again that does not really appear to be an issue with the THX.



i own d50 and su8 and those are both downgrades vs the mimby eitr stack with my thx. mimby and eitr is just so much smoother deep and spacious compared to those two chifi dacs. I was hoping the d50 would be better since its got those ever so lauded measurements, and its much better aesthetics wise, but the ugly pairing of the mimby eitr with thx just sounds awesome to me with my audeze lcd2c. I’m honestly wondering why I even think f getting another dac. Must be the addiction....


----------



## BrotherKathos

Zachik said:


> I would say the RDAC is better than Mimby and Bimby, and is very close to Gumby. Taking price into account - the RDAC is a steal, IMHO



how long have you had your rdac and been comparing it to those schiit dacs?


----------



## torii

anyone have thoughts on this dac:  https://geshelli.com/enog2-pro
does it work well with THX AAA 789?


----------



## Zachik

BrotherKathos said:


> how long have you had your rdac and been comparing it to those schiit dacs?


I have had the RDAC since the initial drop started.
Never owned any of the Schiit MB DACs - just A/B'd for a few hours.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Zachik said:


> I have had the RDAC since the initial drop started.
> Never owned any of the Schiit MB DACs - just A/B'd for a few hours.



Hmmm, I think I will try it if the drop comes back and has a reasonable ship date


----------



## Marlowe

BrotherKathos said:


> i own d50 and su8 and those are both downgrades vs the mimby eitr stack with my thx. mimby and eitr is just so much smoother deep and spacious compared to those two chifi dacs. I was hoping the d50 would be better since its got those ever so lauded measurements, and its much better aesthetics wise, but the ugly pairing of the mimby eitr with thx just sounds awesome to me with my audeze lcd2c. I’m honestly wondering why I even think f getting another dac. Must be the addiction....


Thanks for the reply. BTW, I don't think that the Mimby and Eitr are particularly ugly, just sort of utilitarian. (Though I would probably prefer them in black.) I agree that the D50, at least in pictures, looks much nicer. But since I would still be using the D50 with the Eitr, the mismatch would look worse overall IMO. Of course, I'd do it in a heartbeat if the D50 was a solid upgrade, aesthetics be damned, LOL.


----------



## torii

is there a list of dacs under $350 that shine with this amp?


----------



## alphanumerix1

torii said:


> is there a list of dacs under $350 that shine with this amp?



massdrop variants
schiit
topping
smsl
jds


----------



## torii

i have a topping and gesheli labs dac...looking forward to comparisons when massdrop/fedex deliver it.


----------



## alpovs

King CATalyst said:


> To be specific i owned both mimby and bimby at one point and mimby was ok for the price, Bimby was to bright for my taste.


I never had a Bimby but supposedly Mimby and Bimby are identical except Bimby is upgradable.


----------



## torii

if I had to communicate with mimby and bimby  my ptsd would end up eliminating both


----------



## Fatdoi

torii said:


> is there a list of dacs under $350 that shine with this amp?



Z reviews once said every Dac sounds the same until he tried over $1k and changed his world... So I think around $300 most are quite similar depending if you want xlr out then the choice becomes smaller


----------



## torii

just for giggles I pull out my msb link dac...I wouldnt kill this 3 decade old champ seeing music recordings hant changed


----------



## torii

a 30 yr old dac you say...well Im using one...


----------



## alpovs

torii said:


> a 30 yr old dac you say...well Im using one...


Most likely it's multibit and sounds better than modern cheap DACs.


----------



## MacMan31

Mizicke5273 said:


> It was $350 for the Massdrop x Airist Audio R-2R DAC.



Hmm seems pretty pricy for a DAC. I have the MD Grace SDAC and that was $79. It's mostly just air inside with a few chips on a board. Also seems pricy. Is $350 really worth it for basically the same thing but in a bigger box?


----------



## ReAlien

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm seems pretty pricy for a DAC. I have the MD Grace SDAC and that was $79. It's mostly just air inside with a few chips on a board. Also seems pricy. Is $350 really worth it for basically the same thing but in a bigger box?



The main concern is that it is way too cheap for implementing R2R DAC concept (ladder multibit DAC). Proper R2R DACs cost thousands of dollars. You should not compare simple delta-sigma 1 bit DAC architecture with the multibit one.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm seems pretty pricy for a DAC. I have the MD Grace SDAC and that was $79. It's mostly just air inside with a few chips on a board. Also seems pricy. Is $350 really worth it for basically the same thing but in a bigger box?


When you are talking about delta sigma dacs like your grace dac, then yes they are cheap to make as the decoding is done on a cheap to make chip, and the rest of the components can be as cheap or as expensive as the maker wants. 

R2R dacs like the rdac are a different red all together. The manufacturing process for those is alot more expensive since they have to use precision cut ladders that meet very tight specs. Plus  y the nture of using more ladders for basically better sound drives up cost and makes the units larger. So you could never put the components of the rdac in that tiny sdac case. Hope this helped explain the cost difference. This is why ladder dacs died off in the first place. delta sigma chips are just way more cost effective.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> When you are talking about delta sigma dacs like your grace dac, then yes they are cheap to make as the decoding is done on a cheap to make chip, and the rest of the components can be as cheap or as expensive as the maker wants.
> 
> R2R dacs like the rdac are a different red all together. The manufacturing process for those is alot more expensive since they have to use precision cut ladders that meet very tight specs. Plus  y the nture of using more ladders for basically better sound drives up cost and makes the units larger. So you could never put the components of the rdac in that tiny sdac case. Hope this helped explain the cost difference. This is why ladder dacs died off in the first place. delta sigma chips are just way more cost effective.



Thanks for the info but I'm not sure what you mean by "ladders". In any event the R2R DAC would have to be "end game" for me as it would cost $500 or so in Canada due to exchange rate. That's expensive for me personally. I don't make a lot of money hence why I buy "budget" stuff like the Grace SDAC. 




ReAlien said:


> The main concern is that it is way too cheap for implementing R2R DAC concept (ladder multibit DAC). Proper R2R DACs cost thousands of dollars. You should not compare simple delta-sigma 1 bit DAC architecture with the multibit one.



Well I'll honest in that I don't know all the wizardry that goes into these things. I'm just one who thinks the world has gotten way overpriced. Cost of living has risen far faster than most peoples pay check.


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 23, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> Well I'll honest in that I don't know all the wizardry that goes into these things. I'm just one who thinks the world has gotten way overpriced. Cost of living has risen far faster than most peoples pay check.



Well, it has nothing to do with injustices of the modern world, it's just a technology limitation. For instance, I've read about some high-end RDAC that employes 100 resistors, each costing 15 USD. it's quite easy to do the math and understand that R2R approach is just more demanding cost-wise.


----------



## MacMan31

ReAlien said:


> Well, it has nothing to do with injustices of the modern world, it's just a technology limitation. For instance, I've read about some high-end RDAC that employes 100 resistors, each costing 15 USD. it's quite easy to do the math and understand that R2R approach is just more demanding.



Oh I'm sure there are limitations for one technology compared to another. Like a spinning hard drive vs and SSD. The hard drive won't be as fast as an SSD because the former has moving part that can only move so fast. SSD doesn't have that issue. I just think that inflation of prices on good has given things a false level of value or worth. In any event that's likely a discussion for another section of the forum. Would something like the R2R DAC be considered "end game" cause at around $500 Canadian that's what it would have to be for me. I'm not making gobs of money so I'd want to spend wisely. I have no complaints about the SDAC so I have no need to replace it. But if I jumped on the next drop for the THX 789 and bought the R2R DAC next time it drops than I could sell the SDAC alongside the Aune X7S for someone looking for a quality DAC/amp combo. Aside from the R2R DAC any other good options under $300? Someone mentioned the SMSL SU8.


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 23, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> Oh I'm sure there are limitations for one technology compared to another. Like a spinning hard drive vs and SSD. The hard drive won't be as fast as an SSD because the former has moving part that can only move so fast. SSD doesn't have that issue. I just think that inflation of prices on good has given things a false level of value or worth. In any event that's likely a discussion for another section of the forum. Would something like the R2R DAC be considered "end game" cause at around $500 Canadian that's what it would have to be for me. I'm not making gobs of money so I'd want to spend wisely. I have no complaints about the SDAC so I have no need to replace it. But if I jumped on the next drop for the THX 789 and bought the R2R DAC next time it drops than I could sell the SDAC alongside the Aune X7S for someone looking for a quality DAC/amp combo. Aside from the R2R DAC any other good options under $300? Someone mentioned the SMSL SU8.



Sorry, I am still waiting for my THX 789 to arrive and I am yet to hear any R2R DACs, so I cannot cite from my own experience. All I know from web sources is that main alleged benefit of multi-bit DACs is in the fact that the original signal is not split into 1-bit fragments and is processed in its true form. Also, I know that multi-bit DACs (only cheap ones?) suffer from signal distortion which makes some experts (like Amir from ASR) downgrade them to non-HiFi products and also that way too many audiophiles adore these distortions calling them natural and pleasant. That is a conundrum for each person to decide on his own through listening tests, I guess. I'm planning to do just that in the next months in preparation for the (Mass)drop of RDAC in May.


----------



## Alcophone (Dec 23, 2018)

ReAlien said:


> Also, I know that multi-bit DACs (only cheap ones?) suffer from signal distortion which makes some experts (like Amir from ASR) downgrade them to non-HiFi products and also that way too many audiophiles adore these distortions calling them natural and pleasant


The Schiit Yggdrasil (a multibit DAC) sounds more natural to me than the Topping DX7s (a delta-sigma DAC). However, the latter measures better, apparently.

Based on that, some like to conclude that it must be distortion that makes it sound more natural, but that's not science. "It measures better" merely means that the results of certain measurements under certain conditions are better, it doesn't tell you anything about what wasn't measured or about the results under different conditions (e.g. amp performance with a dummy load vs actual transducers).

So even if the only obvious difference (based on what was measured) is distortion, it's not safe to conclude that distortion causes the effect (of it sounding more natural) - that's just a hypothesis. To draw such a conclusion, you would have to be able to remove or add just that difference in distortion, leave everything else the same and subsequently observe a corresponding decrease or increase in perceived naturalness.

That's not to say that it's impossible for distortion to sound pleasant (say, with tubes in tube amps), but I don't understand how distortion could make something sound more natural. So I'm assuming it's something else that makes it sound more natural, something that's not apparent in what was measured, and that the distortion is measurable, but not audible, and therefore irrelevant.


----------



## ReAlien

Alcophone said:


> The Schiit Yggdrasil (a multibit DAC) sounds more natural to me than the Topping DX7s (a delta-sigma DAC). However, the latter measures better, apparently.
> 
> Based on that, some like to conclude that it must be distortion that makes it sound more natural, but that's not science. "It measures better" merely means that the results of certain measurements under certain conditions are better, it doesn't tell you anything about what wasn't measured or about the result under different conditions (e.g. amp performance with a dummy load vs actual transducers).
> 
> ...



That's why I named this issue a conundrum.  And you are absolutely correct to mention tubes in this context, I think it is a closely related situation — a piece of audio equipment with higher measured THD levels sounds more natural. I tried to read some scientific whitepaper that implied that some harmonic distortions are perceived as "natural" by a human hearing system, yet I was way too scientifically ignorant to understand such documents and prefer to rely on my own ears to tell me if the sound is natural or not.


----------



## Marlowe

I should say up front that I have no engineering or technical expertise (my degrees are in history and law) and I've really only been in this hobby seriously for a couple of years so my 65-year old ears are both untrained and far past peak hearing. However, my gut (and since a well known person who infamously relies on his gut is a spectacularly ignorant moron I may be also, but luckily for me just on this particular question) tells me that the "objectivist" reviews relying almost solely on test measurements are not particularly useful in this context.Some people who do seem to have a great deal of technical expertise (on a site I cannot name here) note that when it comes to DACs, measurements really only tell you whether or not a DAC is crap. Once a DAC's measurements exceed the "crap" level (and all the DACs discussed here do) the relatively small differences in measurement are really not audible, do not tell you much, and the proof is in the listening. Reiterating that I am really only making an educated assumption, this seems right to me.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Dec 23, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> The Schiit Yggdrasil (a multibit DAC) sounds more natural to me than the Topping DX7s (a delta-sigma DAC). However, the latter measures better, apparently.
> 
> Based on that, some like to conclude that it must be distortion that makes it sound more natural, but that's not science. "It measures better" merely means that the results of certain measurements under certain conditions are better, it doesn't tell you anything about what wasn't measured or about the results under different conditions (e.g. amp performance with a dummy load vs actual transducers).
> 
> ...



I totally agree with you there. We simply do not know enough about the science of audio to claim that a few certain measurable factors will influence the total sum of perceived sound. Anyone who does this is slipping into a correlation logical fallacy. This fallacy happens when you mistakenly interpret two things found together as being causally related. Two things may correlate without a causal relation, or they may have some third factor causing both of them to occur. Maybe both things just, coincidentally, happened together. Correlation doesn’t prove causation and until we have total understanding over every single factor that can influence the sound of audio systems, we need to be more open minded to all possible influences.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Oh I'm sure there are limitations for one technology compared to another. Like a spinning hard drive vs and SSD. The hard drive won't be as fast as an SSD because the former has moving part that can only move so fast. SSD doesn't have that issue. I just think that inflation of prices on good has given things a false level of value or worth. In any event that's likely a discussion for another section of the forum. Would something like the R2R DAC be considered "end game" cause at around $500 Canadian that's what it would have to be for me. I'm not making gobs of money so I'd want to spend wisely. I have no complaints about the SDAC so I have no need to replace it. But if I jumped on the next drop for the THX 789 and bought the R2R DAC next time it drops than I could sell the SDAC alongside the Aune X7S for someone looking for a quality DAC/amp combo. Aside from the R2R DAC any other good options under $300? Someone mentioned the SMSL SU8.



What is going to be end game for you ultimately depends on your personal tastes and what kind of sound you are looking for. There are some that prefer the modi multibit to the $2400 yggy purely for the sound difference and regardless of price. Some find the yggy to bright and the mimby smoother. You could very well like a $99 dac over a $5000 one if it hits your audible sweet spot. The best thing for you to do is search out the impressions of sound signatures of certain dacs, and how they pair with your other equipment in an effort to tailor a sound that you will be pleased with. This is the best way for you to end up with a satisfying audio rig.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> What is going to be end game for you ultimately depends on your personal tastes and what kind of sound you are looking for. There are some that prefer the modi multibit to the $2400 yggy purely for the sound difference and regardless of price. Some find the yggy to bright and the mimby smoother. You could very well like a $99 dac over a $5000 one if it hits your audible sweet spot. The best thing for you to do is search out the impressions of sound signatures of certain dacs, and how they pair with your other equipment in an effort to tailor a sound that you will be pleased with. This is the best way for you to end up with a satisfying audio rig.



Yeah I guess that is true. I just don't have the kind of money to buy these things and test them out. If I was a reviewer like Zeos or whatnot then perhaps these companies would send me stuff to test and review. Also I don't know how to read audio frequency graphs.


----------



## Alcophone

MacMan31 said:


> Yeah I guess that is true. I just don't have the kind of money to buy these things and test them out. If I was a reviewer like Zeos or whatnot then perhaps these companies would send me stuff to test and review. Also I don't know how to read audio frequency graphs.


You can often sell used gear for a similar price as you buy it for, that might be an affordable approach.


----------



## MacMan31

Alcophone said:


> You can often sell used gear for a similar price as you buy it for, that might be an affordable approach.



In my experience I've not been able to sell used gear for close to what I paid for it. Perhaps people where I live are just cheap. It is a government town after all.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Yeah I guess that is true. I just don't have the kind of money to buy these things and test them out. If I was a reviewer like Zeos or whatnot then perhaps these companies would send me stuff to test and review. Also I don't know how to read audio frequency graphs.



What is your current setup? What headphones, dac, and amp?


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> What is your current setup? What headphones, dac, and amp?



I have music coming from iTunes (mostly in 320Kbps AAC with VBR) on my Macbook Pro going to the Grace SDAC via USB, then into the Aune X7S which is driving either my Sennheiser HD6XX or 58X headphones. I'm still in the market for a good close back headphone.


----------



## Alcophone

MacMan31 said:


> In my experience I've not been able to sell used gear for close to what I paid for it. Perhaps people where I live are just cheap. It is a government town after all.


Bummer!


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> I have music coming from iTunes (mostly in 320Kbps AAC with VBR) on my Macbook Pro going to the Grace SDAC via USB, then into the Aune X7S which is driving either my Sennheiser HD6XX or 58X headphones. I'm still in the market for a good close back headphone.


That's a nice setup. What sound profile do you find most pleasing? Do you like more warmth and bass? Do you prefer mids, or maybe want more pronounced treble? I've never heard the sdac or x7s personally, but they are highly rated from others and the hd6xx is my second favorite headphone I own and also arguably the best price/performance headphone on the market period. From my limited knowledge I would guess the sound your system puts out is detailed and warm with nice bass and treble that is slightly tamed but still easily perceivable. Is that a close guess?


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> That's a nice setup. What sound profile do you find most pleasing? Do you like more warmth and bass? Do you prefer mids, or maybe want more pronounced treble? I've never heard the sdac or x7s personally, but they are highly rated from others and the hd6xx is my second favorite headphone I own and also arguably the best price/performance headphone on the market period. From my limited knowledge I would guess the sound your system puts out is detailed and warm with nice bass and treble that is slightly tamed but still easily perceivable. Is that a close guess?



Well I don't like bass heavy music like rap or EDM. As my music takes have changed over the years I've gone more towards more instrumental stuff like classical and movie scores. I also like classic rock/pop, jazz, blues as well. I do like lots of detail. I remember going from some Sony MDR-10bt bluetooth headphones to the Sennheiser 598SR and that was a big difference for me. The Sony's sounded so muddy and dark compared to the 598s. Then I sold those when I got the HD6XX. I had the AudioEngine D1 amp and then switched to the Micca Origen+ DAC/amp which I thought was great in sound and design layout. Now here I am with the SDAC and X7S.


----------



## bluenight (Dec 23, 2018)

I wonder if i can replace the us type plug  cable thats provided with eu plug cable like this and connect it to the black powerbrick? The provided cable is not something special audiofile for this amp just basic right?

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-nrg-y2-mains-power-cable

Maybe this amp wont bennefit much from power cleaning with my niagara 1000 as this amp has so low distortion values?

Maybe not worth getting more expensive nrg y2 cable for that.

Otherwise i can just get this adapter

http://q2-power.com/portfolio-posts/usa-to-europe/

Also it seems like 789 is cleaning the power itself.
"Each channel of the THX AAA 789 amp is equipped with a low-bias class-AB main amplifier and an auxiliary error-correction amplifier, the former providing the majority of the power and the latter providing a realtime low-power error-correction signal. These work together to null all distortion components. Additionally, the product’s low quiescent current minimizes wasted power."


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Well I don't like bass heavy music like rap or EDM. As my music takes have changed over the years I've gone more towards more instrumental stuff like classical and movie scores. I also like classic rock/pop, jazz, blues as well. I do like lots of detail. I remember going from some Sony MDR-10bt bluetooth headphones to the Sennheiser 598SR and that was a big difference for me. The Sony's sounded so muddy and dark compared to the 598s. Then I sold those when I got the HD6XX. I had the AudioEngine D1 amp and then switched to the Micca Origen+ DAC/amp which I thought was great in sound and design layout. Now here I am with the SDAC and X7S.



Maybe headphones wold be a better upgrade option? Have you ever thought of trying massdrop's focal offerings? They might give you what you are after especially for instrumental music.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Maybe headphones wold be a better upgrade option? Have you ever thought of trying massdrop's focal offerings? They might give you what you are after especially for instrumental music.


 
The Focal headphones seem very expensive. Zeos is reviewing them now doing one each day. I've looked at the Fostex offerings on Massdrop and may get the Mahogany one.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> The Focal headphones seem very expensive. Zeos is reviewing them now doing one each day. I've looked at the Fostex offerings on Massdrop and may get the Mahogany one.



The massdrop hifiman He4xx is also a possible choice if you like very clean and clear sound. They are definitely more of a budget option and should shine for instrumental music. I've got the he-400i that the 4xx is basically a clone of and they are pretty nice. I eq mine to get my preferred sound, but even without the eq they perform nicely, but have a treble peak around 8k that I'm sensitive too. Many people view the 4xx as a planar replacement for the hd650. The hd4xx is $160 or so


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> The massdrop hifiman He4xx is also a possible choice if you like very clean and clear sound. They are definitely more of a budget option and should shine for instrumental music. I've got the he-400i that the 4xx is basically a clone of and they are pretty nice. I eq mine to get my preferred sound, but even without the eq they perform nicely, but have a treble peak around 8k that I'm sensitive too. Many people view the 4xx as a planar replacement for the hd650. The hd4xx is $160 or so



I had the 4XX but didn't really like them. But mainly because they didn't fit on my head. By that I mean that even at the smallest headband adjustment they were still a bit too big. The ear cups would be too low on my ears. However the Sennheisers I have to extend the headband a couple notches on each side to fit comfortably. I've had this issue before with headphones like the M50X or the Sony MDR-1A. Those for me had the same problem as the 4XX.


----------



## torii (Dec 23, 2018)

with focal elear/elax you can have 4 or 5 sound signatures just by changing ear pads.  of course that turns them into 1000 dollar headphones if you buy all the dekoni pads


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> I have music coming from iTunes (mostly in 320Kbps AAC with VBR) on my Macbook Pro going to the Grace SDAC via USB, then into the Aune X7S which is driving either my Sennheiser HD6XX or 58X headphones. I'm still in the market for a good close back headphone.


Are you using a balanced or single-eneded output from your amp? If the latter, the best thing you can do now is to connect your HD6XX via balanced because:
Output power on RCA max: 250 mW at 300 Ohm.
Output power on XLR max: 1000 mW at 300 Ohm.
Output power on RCA max: 1000 mW at 32 Ohm.
Output power on XLR max: 1700 mW at 32 Ohm.

The above is for Aune X7S. The HD6XX need power. You will be surprised how differently they will sound with more power. Either buy a new cable or make one if you can solder.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> Are you using a balanced or single-eneded output from your amp? If the latter, the best thing you can do now is to connect your HD6XX via balanced because:
> Output power on RCA max: 250 mW at 300 Ohm.
> Output power on XLR max: 1000 mW at 300 Ohm.
> Output power on RCA max: 1000 mW at 32 Ohm.
> ...



I do plan to get a balanced cable hopefully in the new year. Do you think the 58X would also benefit from being balanced? I switched my X7S to medium gain and the sound is actually a bit better. I only have to go to 9 o'clock on the volume dial with the 6XX.


----------



## eeagle (Dec 23, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> The Focal headphones seem very expensive. Zeos is reviewing them now doing one each day. I've looked at the Fostex offerings on Massdrop and may get the Mahogany one.



Since receiving my 789 I have been running various HPs with it, and just recently pulled my MD Fostex TH-X00 out of their bag, I had forgotten just how enjoyable they are.  They are very easy to drive unlike the Planar's which was my main reason for picking up the 789.  The 789 gain switch fortunately accommodates just about any HP/IEM.  At any rate thought I might add a word of encouragement for the now TR-X00 (yes I have the mahogany ones), they would compliment the open backs you currently have with a nice punchy bass for those jazz recordings like Jazz in the Pawnshop..

Something else you should consider is trying some higher bit rate source materiel.  I'm a big fan of HDtracks, you can download a FREE sampler album right on their home page.  I particularly like the Chesky Binaural+ Audiophile Picks


----------



## MacMan31

eeagle said:


> Since receiving my 789 I have been running various HPs with it, and just recently pulled my MD Fostex TH-X00 out of their bag, I had forgotten just how enjoyable they are.  They are very easy to drive unlike the Planar's which was my main reason for picking up the 789.  The 789 gain switch fortunately accommodates just about any HP/IEM.  At any rate thought I might add a word of encouragement for the now TR-X00 (yes I have the mahogany ones), they would compliment the open backs you currently have with a nice punchy bass for those jazz recordings like Jazz in the Pawnshop..
> 
> Something else you should consider is trying some higher bit rate source materiel.  I'm a big fan of HDtracks, you can download a FREE sampler album right on their home page.  I particularly like the Chesky Binaural+ Audiophile Picks



I've checked out HDTracks before. Thing is I import my CDs in 320Kbps AAC cause I really can't hear a noticeable difference between that and Lossless. Also because I don't have enough space on my SSD drive to have my music library in Lossless due to the bigger file size.


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> Thing is I import my CDs in 320Kbps AAC cause I really can't hear a noticeable difference between that and Lossless.


I am pretty sure you will start hearing it if you get better equipment.


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> I do plan to get a balanced cable hopefully in the new year. Do you think the 58X would also benefit from being balanced?


I don't know. But looks like the cable is the same, so you'll be able to try. Usually balanced is always better under otherwise equal conditions.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> I am pretty sure you will start hearing it if you get better equipment.



Perhaps. But given that I only earn a "budget" salary I can only afford budget gear. If I put a 1TB drive in my laptop I could re-import in Lossless.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> I don't know. But looks like the cable is the same, so you'll be able to try. Usually balanced is always better under otherwise equal conditions.



Yeah it seems the cable is the same for both headphones so I could swap between the two.


----------



## ayang02

King CATalyst said:


> I've been using my mojo as a dac with it for awhile now and bass is a bit anemic imo, ymmv.



May I ask how your Mojo is setup with your 789? I see the Mojo "line output" is 3V RMS. In the Mojo thread, some people use the 1.9V RMS setting by setting to 3V RMS first then click four times down (ball colors turn indigo) to get 1.9V.


----------



## ayobreezie

Just got my amp in today.. here's my "average consumer" impressions.

Eargasm.

Definitely not an "audiophile" or "experienced audiophile," but I really like clean audio. I'm not gonna use audiophile terms or anything in my description.

I've previously ran a Schiit stack, but always preferred my onboard audio because it had a cleaner DAC and AMP on it. The Schiit stack always sounded like it was muddy to me or like I was wearing earplugs. Hated the whole "dac/amp" suggestions prior to this purchase because I would buy random suggestions that were supposed to be great, but never beat my motherboard's capabilities. My mobo is a Gigabyte Aorus Z270X-Gaming-K7, for reference.

In comes the 789 + Geshelli Enog2 Pro DAC, a great pairing with this amp. I run this through optical + balanced inputs + single ended DT 1990. Very clean. Have only tried about a half hour or so, but definitely lives up to the hype. Gotta go to work, so can't wait to get home and listen some more. Will be listening with K7XX/HD58X as well. But I gotta say.. so far.. money well spent.

Merry Christmas.


----------



## gtbrown50

ayobreezie said:


> Just got my amp in today.. here's my "average consumer" impressions.
> 
> Eargasm.
> 
> ...



So like my impression. It was the very first listen, very first album, very first song that had me sold. Its nice to add a link in the chain that doesn't result in fretting or second guessing. I'm into my second month of ownership, have bought a second one for another "station" that I use daily and no change in my respect for this amp. Very pleased!


----------



## MacMan31

Okay so I may end up joining the next drop for this amp but my Aune X7S has a balanced headphone out and I'm going to buy the Periapt 4 pin XLR cable for my Sennheiser 6XX and 58X. But I'm also wanting to buy a 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adapter but I don't see that offered by Periapt. Does anyone know where I can get one? I've seen Zeos use one of those adapters on a few of his videos so I know it exists.


----------



## MissChristie

I received this item a few days ago. Initial impressions are that it's fantastic! Been using single end only, but will be ordering balanced cables a the start of the month. Currently being fed by a Modi 2. Previous amp choices wer a Magni2 and a Little Dot i+. The stand out features are that things have a lot more impact. Castanets in particular were impactful and made me reflexively blink which is something I do when I'm close to someone hammering something together. Soundstage is a rather standout quality and it totally introduced a new axis to my imaging, as I now can hear parts that are coming from up or down.

Headphones I tried with the 789 were HD6xx, MD+, PM-3 and LCD2F. HD6xx had the biggest change. I had never really liked this headphone before but now it feels like a neutral, and engaging powerhouse able to take on any genre, whereas before it just felt too flat and relaxed. Oddly enough the PM-3 had the least amount of change, but I still think it improved though it's hard to quantify how. Just seems less congested and better stage/imaging.

Am looking forward to getting a balanced cable for my LCD-2s and HD6xx, but SE should be fine for the rest.

I guess the best quality I can say is that it felt like an improvement in every way, and there was never any question whether it was a true upgrade. My experience with it and the measured specs give me peace of mind, and honestly thats a quality I really appreciate it for.


----------



## ayobreezie

MissChristie said:


> I received this item a few days ago. Initial impressions are that it's fantastic! Been using single end only, but will be ordering balanced cables a the start of the month. Currently being fed by a Modi 2. Previous amp choices wer a Magni2 and a Little Dot i+. The stand out features are that things have a lot more impact. Castanets in particular were impactful and made me reflexively blink which is something I do when I'm close to someone hammering something together. Soundstage is a rather standout quality and it totally introduced a new axis to my imaging, as I now can hear parts that are coming from up or down.
> 
> Headphones I tried with the 789 were HD6xx, MD+, PM-3 and LCD2F. HD6xx had the biggest change. I had never really liked this headphone before but now it feels like a neutral, and engaging powerhouse able to take on any genre, whereas before it just felt too flat and relaxed. Oddly enough the PM-3 had the least amount of change, but I still think it improved though it's hard to quantify how. Just seems less congested and better stage/imaging.
> 
> ...



How do you like the LCD-2F on this?  Ordered one last night and currently considering maybe changing that order to the LCD-X instead.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I hooked up the second thx to my other station and man this amp is just amazing. It replaced a Schiit Asgard 2 and the thx is just so much smoother. The topping D50 dac i have paired with the Hifiman he-400i always required me to bump the treble down as it was just too bright. The ability to run the 400i balanced for more power coupled with the smoothness of the thx is actually making be think about increasing the treble again. This amp is by far the least fatiguing amp I have. This thing is going to be a classic for sure. I had to break out the little OL switcher for the desktop speakers since the thx does not have the preamp option like the asgard, but I've always preferred passive pre-amps when possible anyway. Happy listening to those who got the recent drop!


----------



## ReAlien

BrotherKathos said:


> The topping D50 dac i have paired with the Hifiman he-400i always required me to bump the treble down as it was just too bright. The ability to run the 400i balanced for more power coupled with the smoothness of the thx is actually making be think about increasing the treble again. This amp is by far the least fatiguing amp I have. This thing is going to be a classic for sure. I had to break out the little OL switcher for the desktop speakers since the thx does not have the preamp option like the asgard, but I've always preferred passive pre-amps when possible anyway. Happy listening to those who got the recent drop!



I also have 400i and am waiting for my THX to arrive. I read a couple of times that this pairing will be too bright so I am prepared to use 400i with my another amp and buy 6XX to pair with THX. Would be interested to hear your opinion on THX with 400i w/o EQ.

Btw, what ear pads have you installed and why did you change original ones?


----------



## BrotherKathos

ReAlien said:


> I also have 400i and am waiting for my THX to arrive. I read a couple of times that this pairing will be too bright so I am prepared to use 400i with my another amp and buy 6XX to pair with THX. Would be interested to hear your opinion on THX with 400i w/o EQ.
> 
> Btw, what ear pads have you installed and why did you change original ones?



The earpads I have are the Dekoni Fenestrated lamskin ones. The main reason I changed pads was for comfort, as I fing the stock ones a bit itchy. The new pads are very close to the stock ones, but might have a tad more bass. The treble seems about the same to me.

I've found the treble reproduction of the thx to be kind of confusing to be honest. I'll use the 400i with it as a example like you wanted. When I turn the eq off and just use the 400i with balanced out and the source is the D50, the sound is 'brighter' than say the Asgard 2 was at the same volume level. The Asgard 2 btw is considered by many and myself to be a warmer amp. But the strange thing is that even though I hear more treble information in the thx than the Asgard, the Asgard is much more harsh and fatiguing than the thx. This is the strange thing. I'm someone who typically hates bright amps and headphones, but with the thx in the chain, even 'bright' pairings don't bother me as much. I still prefer to eq the 400i as I think it needs a sub bass and mid bass boost as well as a slight dip in treble to sound just right to me, but if I had to pick between the two amps without eq, I think i would still use the thx with the 400i over the Asgard 2. 

So while i think eq definitely helps the 400i shine to my personal tastes, its still going to pair pretty well imo with the 400i in stock form, especially if you like hearing all the little details that might get lost in more hazy amps like the Asgard 2. I hope this helps you. Also I've found the loki to be a match made in heaven for the 400i no matter what amp I use. Its almost mandatory now that I have the loki in a chain when using the 400i. Its made the 400i go from my least favorite relatively 'high end' headphone to my second favorite, just shy of my Audeze lcd2c. That imo is a big achievement.


----------



## ReAlien

BrotherKathos said:


> The earpads I have are the Dekoni Fenestrated lamskin ones. The main reason I changed pads was for comfort, as I fing the stock ones a bit itchy. The new pads are very close to the stock ones, but might have a tad more bass. The treble seems about the same to me.
> 
> I've found the treble reproduction of the thx to be kind of confusing to be honest. I'll use the 400i with it as a example like you wanted. When I turn the eq off and just use the 400i with balanced out and the source is the D50, the sound is 'brighter' than say the Asgard 2 was at the same volume level. The Asgard 2 btw is considered by many and myself to be a warmer amp. But the strange thing is that even though I hear more treble information in the thx than the Asgard, the Asgard is much more harsh and fatiguing than the thx. This is the strange thing. I'm someone who typically hates bright amps and headphones, but with the thx in the chain, even 'bright' pairings don't bother me as much. I still prefer to eq the 400i as I think it needs a sub bass and mid bass boost as well as a slight dip in treble to sound just right to me, but if I had to pick between the two amps without eq, I think i would still use the thx with the 400i over the Asgard 2.
> 
> So while i think eq definitely helps the 400i shine to my personal tastes, its still going to pair pretty well imo with the 400i in stock form, especially if you like hearing all the little details that might get lost in more hazy amps like the Asgard 2. I hope this helps you. Also I've found the loki to be a match made in heaven for the 400i no matter what amp I use. Its almost mandatory now that I have the loki in a chain when using the 400i. Its made the 400i go from my least favorite relatively 'high end' headphone to my second favorite, just shy of my Audeze lcd2c. That imo is a big achievement.



Thank you for such an extended reply! I'll report on my own listening experience in a couple of weeks. And thanks about Loki info, I've not heard about it before and will look into buying this thing if I decide to go into EQ business, which I usually shun.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ReAlien said:


> Thank you for such an extended reply! I'll report on my own listening experience in a couple of weeks. And thanks about Loki info, I've not heard about it before and will look into buying this thing if I decide to go into EQ business, which I usually shun.


 Happy to help!  I was like you about eq before, and still kind of am when it comes to digital eq. The loki is nice analogue eq and only gives you 4 spots that are pretty much the most generalized spots people mess with. The treble adjustment on the loki just happens to perfectly line up to the 8k peak the 400i have in its frequency response measurements. This is why i say its such a good match up top. Eq is a great tool if used sparingly, just like putting a dash of salt and pepper on a nice meal


----------



## jeremya

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the info but I'm not sure what you mean by "ladders".



Wikipedia has a good write-up on resistor "ladder" circuits, including R2R for digital to analog conversion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder 

MSB has an easy to follow write-up as well: http://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/why-ladder-dacs/

But in short, they're called a "ladder" because if you look at the circuit from a certain angle (usually 90 degrees from the way it's often drawn as a circuit diagram) it looks a lot like a ladder (albeit one missing a side...)

Modern ladder DACs tend to be expensive in audio applications because precision is paramount. To make a highly-precise ("bit perfect") ladder DAC that works with 16-bit (and higher) resolution sources, you need many discrete (individual) resistors whose performance and tolerances have been carefully selected and matched, and the accuracy requirements get tighter the more bits you require. An 8-bit ladder DAC can be made quite cheaply. A 16-bit ladder DAC less so (but still under $150 in raw materials -- I have friends who have DIY designed and implemented their own), meanwhile a 24 or 32 bit ladder DAC can be _prohibitively _expensive, especially when you factor in the customary corporate overhead: Research & Development costs, distributor and dealer network markups, marketing, branding, etc.

Companies like Schiit work around the prohibitive costs in two ways:
 1) they re-purpose an existing integrated circuit (a medical/aerospace-targeted DAC chip: the Analog Devices AD5791) which has the resistor ladders built-in (so, no need for 'discrete' components),
 2) they don't have distribution and dealer networks.


----------



## jeremya (Dec 26, 2018)

ayobreezie said:


> Just got my amp in today.. here's my "average consumer" impressions.... so far.. money well spent.
> 
> Merry Christmas.



I also received mine on Christmas Eve (much to my surprise). What a wonderful present!

As I sent to some friends of mine, my initial impressions were:


Without music playing:

“Is this thing on?”

With music playing:

"Wow. Ok, that’s... impressive straight out of the box. Very precise sound. Nice to be able to change the gain on the fly. Knobs feel great."

Subsequent time spent listening have proved this to be a wonderful little box. I needed something with more oomph to drive a pair of HE-1000s and they deliver that in spades. Excellent detail retrieval and nuance. Authoritative bottom-end. Great sense of instrument placement. I'm finding lots of new things to follow in old, beloved music. And I just want to keep listening...

I think Massdrop hit it out of the park with this one.


----------



## MissChristie

ayobreezie said:


> How do you like the LCD-2F on this?  Ordered one last night and currently considering maybe changing that order to the LCD-X instead.



The LCD-2F sounds fantastic. My version is the 2016 revision and I think they got an update since then. The bass became more punchy, with great texture. Soundstage is still intimate, like jazz club size, but it's incredibly realistic, and with more points of imaging than before. Sounds more detailed without being at the expense of it's treble balance. While the improvement with the LCD-2 wasn't as much of a night and day difference as with the 6xx, it was just a nice, across the board improvement to all the areas that the LCD2 already does so well.

I guess the thing about this amp is that it's neutral, but in a transparent way where you're headphones are what shapes the sound signature, as opposed to "neutral" like some amps where any signal run through it comes out sounding boring. Really lets you get the most from the rest of your equipment.

I wish I knew enough about the LCD-X to comment on which would be the better option in this case. I will say that the deals I saw on the LCD-X ($1100 or so) are pretty nice, and I probably would have gone with those if they were available for that price when I was in the market. But I have absolutely no idea if that would have been the better choice.


----------



## AndrewM888

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so I may end up joining the next drop for this amp but my Aune X7S has a balanced headphone out and I'm going to buy the Periapt 4 pin XLR cable for my Sennheiser 6XX and 58X. But I'm also wanting to buy a 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adapter but I don't see that offered by Periapt. Does anyone know where I can get one? I've seen Zeos use one of those adapters on a few of his videos so I know it exists.


4-pin XLR to 1/4" adapters aren't made/sold because they'll short a balanced amplifier. Don't do it!


----------



## MacMan31

AndrewM888 said:


> 4-pin XLR to 1/4" adapters aren't made/sold because they'll short a balanced amplifier. Don't do it!



Well I found one on Amazon with overall great reviews so I bought one. I want to compare the different between SE and balanced output.


----------



## AndrewM888

MacMan31 said:


> Well I found one on Amazon with overall great reviews so I bought one. I want to compare the different between SE and balanced output.


Can you post a pic or link showing the adapter you bought?


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Well I found one on Amazon with overall great reviews so I bought one. I want to compare the different between SE and balanced output.



Why not do it the right way and just get a balanced headphone cable instead? Save yourself lots of heartache later if you damage the amp?


----------



## MacMan31

AndrewM888 said:


> Can you post a pic or link showing the adapter you bought?



This is what I bought. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KQRN306




BrotherKathos said:


> Why not do it the right way and just get a balanced headphone cable instead? Save yourself lots of heartache later if you damage the amp?



I bought a balanced XLR cable from Periapt.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> This is what I bought.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KQRN306
> 
> 
> ...



That adapter you bought seems to be pointless if you have the thx amp. That adapter converts the se output to use with a balaced cable. Why would you do that when you have a balanced output ready to use already on the amp? You are not going to get any benifit from using a balanced cable with a SE output. Most likely the sound would only be worse?


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 26, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> That adapter you bought seems to be pointless if you have the thx amp. That adapter converts the se output to use with a balanced cable. Why would you do that when you have a balanced output ready to use already on the amp? You are not going to get any benefit from using a balanced cable with an SE output. Most likely the sound would only be worse?


As I see it, he just buys it to try both versions even knowing that the balanced one would be better. Some testing frenzy, I guess. But I do not understand why he would not use his current SE cable.


----------



## ayobreezie

MissChristie said:


> The LCD-2F sounds fantastic. My version is the 2016 revision and I think they got an update since then. The bass became more punchy, with great texture. Soundstage is still intimate, like jazz club size, but it's incredibly realistic, and with more points of imaging than before. Sounds more detailed without being at the expense of it's treble balance. While the improvement with the LCD-2 wasn't as much of a night and day difference as with the 6xx, it was just a nice, across the board improvement to all the areas that the LCD2 already does so well.
> 
> I guess the thing about this amp is that it's neutral, but in a transparent way where you're headphones are what shapes the sound signature, as opposed to "neutral" like some amps where any signal run through it comes out sounding boring. Really lets you get the most from the rest of your equipment.
> 
> I wish I knew enough about the LCD-X to comment on which would be the better option in this case. I will say that the deals I saw on the LCD-X ($1100 or so) are pretty nice, and I probably would have gone with those if they were available for that price when I was in the market. But I have absolutely no idea if that would have been the better choice.



Thanks.  I ordered the LCD-X's.  Yeah, that's the thing with this amp.  I loved my DT 1990s before the amp, still do.. But they now can get fatiguing and I can now notice the brightness in the headphones that weren't as harsh without the amp.

One thing I'm hoping for is the weight of the LCD's not to be an issue.  Would hate for that to be the killer if sound quality turns out to be what I'm looking for.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ReAlien said:


> As I see it, he just buys it to try both versions even knowing that the balanced one would be better. Some testing frenzy but not criminal in my view.)



The thing is he is testing the same output, and not both outputs, so he only at best going to hear the difference in cables and what the adapter does to the sound. If he wants to test the difference between balanced and single ended, then just plug the balanced cable into the balanced output, and the single ended cable into the single ended output. That's why I said its pointless. He might as well just buy a 'hifi' single ended cable instead as he would be more likely to hear a difference if any at all that way vs what he is doing currently.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> That adapter you bought seems to be pointless if you have the thx amp. That adapter converts the se output to use with a balaced cable. Why would you do that when you have a balanced output ready to use already on the amp? You are not going to get any benifit from using a balanced cable with a SE output. Most likely the sound would only be worse?






ReAlien said:


> As I see it, he just buys it to try both versions even knowing that the balanced one would be better. Some testing frenzy, I guess. But I do not understand why he would not use his current SE cable.



My purpose is to compare SE and balanced sound quality without unplugging the cable from the headphone itself.


----------



## AndrewM888

MacMan31 said:


> This is what I bought.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KQRN306
> I bought a balanced XLR cable from Periapt.


The good news is that adapter won't short the amp and should be fine. I thought you had bought something with opposite gender at each end. Happy testing!


----------



## BrotherKathos (Dec 26, 2018)

MacMan31 said:


> My purpose is to compare SE and balanced sound quality without unplugging the cable from the headphone itself.


I'm still not getting how you will be comparing balanced with that adapter. That adapter does not make your signal balanced, it just lets you hook a balanced cable to a single ended output. So if that is what you are trying to achieve you are wasting your time and money. If yo are just trying to hear the difference in the cables themselves then that is understandable though. If I'm still not getting it then I'm sorry, I'm kinda tired. I hope I'm helping you though in case you are expecting to be testing the difference between balanced and single ended signals, because that adapter will not allow you to do that.
I think 
I might get it now, you are keeping the balanced cable on the headphone connected and quick switching between the se and xlr on the head amp to compare more quickly?


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I'm still not getting how you will be comparing balanced with that adapter. That adapter does not make your signal balanced, it just lets you hook a balanced cable to a single ended output. So if that is what you are trying to achieve you are wasting your time and money. If yo are just trying to hear the difference in the cables themselves then that is understandable though. If I'm still not getting it then I'm sorry, I'm kinda tired. I hope I'm helping you though in case you are expecting to be testing the difference between balanced and single ended signals, because that adapter will not allow you to do that.
> I think
> I might get it now, you are keeping the balanced cable on the headphone connected and quick switching between the se and xlr on the head amp to compare more quickly?



Yes exactly. I don’t want wear and tear on the connector on the earcups. Just an adapter at the end to swap between the SE and balanced. I know that all you here will say that balanced sounds better but I want to know for myself. Maybe I’ll end up liking the SE sound better. I just want to know from my own ears without wearing out the connectors on my headphones.


----------



## torii

I dont think this amp can play 300ohm headphones as loud as needed using single ended.  in balanced xlr i think its ok for my hd600's.  on my jubilees balanced volume at 12 o clock is great but after that gets a bit edgy.  so depending on the track, I think better headphone amps are still out there...just not sure on price


----------



## Marlowe

torii said:


> I dont think this amp can play 300ohm headphones as loud as needed using single ended.  in balanced xlr i think its ok for my hd600's.  on my jubilees balanced volume at 12 o clock is great but after that gets a bit edgy.  so depending on the track, I think better headphone amps are still out there...just not sure on price


I'd be interested in what you consider loud. The THX drives the 300 ohm HD6XX loud and well from the SE output, at around 12 o'clock on gain 3. Past 12 it starts to get uncomfortably loud and finally reaches reaches ear splitting. Similarly the HD 700 (150 ohms) sounds fine and quite loud at gain 3 with the volume knob a little lower. I'll probably get an inexpensive balanced cable for the HD700, but not sure about the HD6XX since I don't use it that much. (FWIW, I play the Focal Elex, 80 ohms, from the balanced output on gain 2 with volume a little below or above 11.)


----------



## torii

I used fleetwood mac as a reference due to many recordings being way out of control in how they are mixed (loudness wars).  steely dan, pink floyd also seem to be recorded very well.  so my definition of loud enough is that fleetwood mac isnt quite loud enough with volume halfway on hd 600...oh, should mention I was using tidal...maybe my flacs on hd louder...Im just thinking if I had 600 ohm headphones no way would this amp cut it...just my opinion.  lots of music out there I would have to turn down alot.


----------



## MacMan31

Marlowe said:


> I'd be interested in what you consider loud. The THX drives the 300 ohm HD6XX loud and well from the SE output, at around 12 o'clock on gain 3. Past 12 it starts to get uncomfortably loud and finally reaches reaches ear splitting. Similarly the HD 700 (150 ohms) sounds fine and quite loud at gain 3 with the volume knob a little lower. I'll probably get an inexpensive balanced cable for the HD700, but not sure about the HD6XX since I don't use it that much. (FWIW, I play the Focal Elex, 80 ohms, from the balanced output on gain 2 with volume a little below or above 11.)



You have your HD6XX on high gain at 12 o'clock?? That's so loud. I have mine on low gain at 12 o'clock on my Aune X7S and that's plenty loud for me. I tried medium gain and I didn't need to go past 9 o'clock so high gain would be ridiculous.


----------



## torii

balanced high gain 12 oclock on hd600...yup...after that it starts to get edgy...this isnt to say I listen this loud all the time...just saying this is the area where it starts to go bad...with all the hype on this very nice amp I was suspecting of a little more horsepower...my hd600's are very, very old...thinking 1990's...have any 600 ohm headphone users finding similar results?  Im guessing they would need to have the volume around 3 oclock or higher to get what the headphone can produce.


----------



## torii

yes the focal elear and my 150ohm jubilee have plenty of juice from this amp.  this amp is so clean I kinda wish it had some color...but thats why shopping is fun...or is it?


----------



## CoFire (Dec 27, 2018)

I listened to my HD6XX yesterday for the first time on this amp, balanced and thought, WOW, where did that Sennhesier veil go.

Chain is Grace m9XX (set to 90, unity) / THX AAA 789 / balanced. Not sure what setting on amp.


----------



## Suppa92

What is the best pick from these three THX AAA 789, Audio-Gd NFB 1AMP, HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2? consider only using single ended headphone out and feeding single ended input.


----------



## torii

the thx 789  dont have any color or traits that change the sound...reference amp.  I like tube amp sound with sennheiser


----------



## Zachik

Suppa92 said:


> What is the best pick from these three THX AAA 789, Audio-Gd NFB 1AMP, HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2? consider only using single ended headphone out and feeding single ended input.


THX 789 is very analytical and accurate, whereas Gilmore Lite Mk2 is warmer / smoother and more "fun" or "musical" sound signature. So, up to your personal preference (Gilmore for me!).
I am not familiar with the 3rd one (Audio-Gd)...


----------



## Suppa92

torii said:


> the thx 789  dont have any color or traits that change the sound...reference amp.  I like tube amp sound with sennheiser





Zachik said:


> THX 789 is very analytical and accurate, whereas Gilmore Lite Mk2 is warmer / smoother and more "fun" or "musical" sound signature. So, up to your personal preference (Gilmore for me!).
> I am not familiar with the 3rd one (Audio-Gd)...


Then if i'm ok with using eq, THX is the better choice, right? since it doesn't have a particular sound coloration I can use eq and configure it to my liking better than Gilmore lite, am I correct?


----------



## torii

Im not a fan of eq/dsp for headphones as the boost will probably be too much at the wrong frequency.  I would have to know the frequency response to +/- 1 or 2 db's before I would consider it.  I guess at low volumes might be of some help but Im not "the guy" to recommend eq.


----------



## Suppa92

torii said:


> Im not a fan of eq/dsp for headphones as the boost will probably be too much at the wrong frequency.  I would have to know the frequency response to +/- 1 or 2 db's before I would consider it.  I guess at low volumes might be of some help but Im not "the guy" to recommend eq.


Any good r2r dac to match with thx? Thinking Soekris dac1321 is good with this. Have heard Soekris dacs are very analytical/ accurate than schiit multibit or denafrips ares


----------



## gtbrown50

BrotherKathos said:


> The earpads I have are the Dekoni Fenestrated lamskin ones. The main reason I changed pads was for comfort, as I fing the stock ones a bit itchy. The new pads are very close to the stock ones, but might have a tad more bass. The treble seems about the same to me.
> 
> I've found the treble reproduction of the thx to be kind of confusing to be honest. I'll use the 400i with it as a example like you wanted. When I turn the eq off and just use the 400i with balanced out and the source is the D50, the sound is 'brighter' than say the Asgard 2 was at the same volume level. The Asgard 2 btw is considered by many and myself to be a warmer amp. But the strange thing is that even though I hear more treble information in the thx than the Asgard, the Asgard is much more harsh and fatiguing than the thx. This is the strange thing. I'm someone who typically hates bright amps and headphones, but with the thx in the chain, even 'bright' pairings don't bother me as much. I still prefer to eq the 400i as I think it needs a sub bass and mid bass boost as well as a slight dip in treble to sound just right to me, but if I had to pick between the two amps without eq, I think i would still use the thx with the 400i over the Asgard 2.
> 
> So while i think eq definitely helps the 400i shine to my personal tastes, its still going to pair pretty well imo with the 400i in stock form, especially if you like hearing all the little details that might get lost in more hazy amps like the Asgard 2. I hope this helps you. Also I've found the loki to be a match made in heaven for the 400i no matter what amp I use. Its almost mandatory now that I have the loki in a chain when using the 400i. Its made the 400i go from my least favorite relatively 'high end' headphone to my second favorite, just shy of my Audeze lcd2c. That imo is a big achievement.



I have found my 789s to be accurate and seemingly very low in distortion which helps with clean treble. I also agree with you on the use of a Loki. I have two 789s that I use daily and each has a Loki sitting on top.


----------



## MacMan31

Has anyone here compared the THX 789 to the other Massdrop offerings like the LCX or LCX + SDAC or the CTH tube amp?


----------



## Zachik

Suppa92 said:


> Then if i'm ok with using eq, THX is the better choice, right? since it doesn't have a particular sound coloration I can use eq and configure it to my liking better than Gilmore lite, am I correct?


THX with EQ (e.g. Loki) is NOT a superset of other amps (like Gilmore Lite in your question).
With EQ one could change (to some degree) lows / mids / highs, but certain amps (like the Gilmore) have this magical synergy with specific headphones, and that cannot be recreated with EQ 
Same goes to smooth vs. sharp sound - an amp cannot be "sharpened" or "smoothed" with EQ. 

Bottom line: if one could buy 1 very accurate amp and 1 EQ and "emulate" any other amp in the market - that would be the end of this hobby as we all know it


----------



## Suppa92

Zachik said:


> THX with EQ (e.g. Loki) is NOT a superset of other amps (like Gilmore Lite in your question).
> With EQ one could change (to some degree) lows / mids / highs, but certain amps (like the Gilmore) have this magical synergy with specific headphones, and that cannot be recreated with EQ
> Same goes to smooth vs. sharp sound - an amp cannot be "sharpened" or "smoothed" with EQ.
> 
> Bottom line: if one could buy 1 very accurate amp and 1 EQ and "emulate" any other amp in the market - that would be the end of this hobby as we all know it


Oh I'm considering this to keep as my main audio system, definitely not as a hobby, because I don't have budget to consider this as a hobby or buy multiple headphones or amps.

I selected Audeze LCD-2C as the headphone so I thought selecting an amp with neutral/ accurate sound would be a good pairing. I totally new to this headphone game. If Gilmore lite is great with LCD-2C I would definitely consider that.


----------



## Suppa92

Zachik said:


> THX with EQ (e.g. Loki) is NOT a superset of other amps (like Gilmore Lite in your question).
> With EQ one could change (to some degree) lows / mids / highs, but certain amps (like the Gilmore) have this magical synergy with specific headphones, and that cannot be recreated with EQ
> Same goes to smooth vs. sharp sound - an amp cannot be "sharpened" or "smoothed" with EQ.
> 
> Bottom line: if one could buy 1 very accurate amp and 1 EQ and "emulate" any other amp in the market - that would be the end of this hobby as we all know it


Oh I'm considering this to keep as my main audio system, definitely not as a hobby, because I don't have budget to consider this as a hobby or buy multiple headphones or amps.

I selected Audeze LCD-2C as the headphone so I thought selecting an amp with neutral/ accurate sound would be a good pairing. I totally new to this headphone game. If Gilmore lite is great with LCD-2C I would definitely consider that.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Suppa92 said:


> Oh I'm considering this to keep as my main audio system, definitely not as a hobby, because I don't have budget to consider this as a hobby or buy multiple headphones or amps.
> 
> I selected Audeze LCD-2C as the headphone so I thought selecting an amp with neutral/ accurate sound would be a good pairing. I totally new to this headphone game. If Gilmore lite is great with LCD-2C I would definitely consider that.



I have a pretty decent range of amps from the magni 3, jds labs el amp Schiit asgard 2 and the thx. I've also got the lcd2c and the thx is by far my favorite amp with them and that pairing with balanced cable is also my favorite out of all the setups I own. If I had to live with only one it would be that pair. The Asgard 2 is also a class A amp like the Gilmore lite, but i've never heard the gilmore and from what i've read the gilmore is brighter. I'm not sure where that would put the gilmore if its brighter than the asgard, but warmer than the thx, but its not going to be that much of a difference in tonality in that case. I think the thx has much more potential than the gilmore as it has the most features, versatility, power and the cleanest output.


----------



## CoFire (Dec 28, 2018)

I am rolling through amps and headphones today and the THX AAA 789 does not disappoint, even sounds great with the HD6XX. I was very worried the THX AAA 789 would sound like a super O2 as I find that amp cold, clinical, non-musical. It does not and surprisingly, has great control across all frequencies. It's musical, accurate, and handles highs well. I went for the 789 over the Gilmore Lite MkII because of the ASR review, the idea of gain on a wire and the fact that it's balanced with 3 gain settings so at a cheaper price, I felt it covered all bases and more with its added power (for me) that the Gilmore would have.

If I get a chance in the future, I would certainly audition the Gilmore but I will say, it would be in steep company.


----------



## Zachik

Suppa92 said:


> Oh I'm considering this to keep as my main audio system, definitely not as a hobby, because I don't have budget to consider this as a hobby or buy multiple headphones or amps.
> 
> I selected Audeze LCD-2C as the headphone so I thought selecting an amp with neutral/ accurate sound would be a good pairing. I totally new to this headphone game. If Gilmore lite is great with LCD-2C I would definitely consider that.


My suggestion, if you can afford to financially, is to buy both Gilmore and THX (with the intention of selling the one you like less).
I think you'd lose approx. $100 on selling the other amp as used on the FS forum here.
So, if you consider $100 a fair price for audition at home for as long as you like, making sure you end up with your favorite amp - go for it


----------



## bluenight

AndrewM888 said:


> 4-pin XLR to 1/4" adapters aren't made/sold because they'll short a balanced amplifier. Don't do it!


Hi, is it safe to use this kind of cable for eu outlets with Thx 789?
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-nrg-y2-mains-power-cable

Connecting then to the black power brick replacing the us type plug cable.


----------



## elira

bluenight said:


> Hi, is it safe to use this kind of cable for eu outlets with Thx 789?
> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-nrg-y2-mains-power-cable
> 
> Connecting then to the black power brick replacing the us type plug cable.


It’s safe, but way too expensive.


----------



## bluenight (Dec 28, 2018)

elira said:


> It’s safe, but way too expensive.


I have invested in a AQ Niagara 1000 mains power cleaner so might bee worth it for me, but this amp allready has so low distortion so maybe it dont need any cleaning.


----------



## Suppa92

BrotherKathos said:


> I have a pretty decent range of amps from the magni 3, jds labs el amp Schiit asgard 2 and the thx. I've also got the lcd2c and the thx is by far my favorite amp with them and that pairing with balanced cable is also my favorite out of all the setups I own. If I had to live with only one it would be that pair. The Asgard 2 is also a class A amp like the Gilmore lite, but i've never heard the gilmore and from what i've read the gilmore is brighter. I'm not sure where that would put the gilmore if its brighter than the asgard, but warmer than the thx, but its not going to be that much of a difference in tonality in that case. I think the thx has much more potential than the gilmore as it has the most features, versatility, power and the cleanest output.


Does THX has enough power to driver LCD-2Cs? audeze recommends and amp which has power between 1 to 4 watts. And is there sound quality difference ( like: cleaner, bass, treble, midrange, soundstage) using this in Balanced inputs and outputs, even though this is not truly balanced amp?


----------



## Suppa92

CoFire said:


> I am rolling through amps and headphones today and the THX AAA 789 does not disappoint, even sounds great with the HD6XX. I was very worried the THX AAA 789 would sound like a super O2 as I find that amp cold, clinical, non-musical. It does not and surprisingly, has great control across all frequencies. It's musical, accurate, and handles highs well. I went for the 789 over the Gilmore Lite MkII because of the ASR review, the idea of gain on a wire and the fact that it's balanced with 3 gain settings so at a cheaper price, I felt it covered all bases and more with its added power (for me) that the Gilmore would have.
> 
> If I get a chance in the future, I would certainly audition the Gilmore but I will say, it would be in steep company.


How Ether 2 sounds with THX?


----------



## CoFire (Dec 29, 2018)

Man, the E2 is complicated. So far, it's possibly better off my m9XX directly. I need a balanced cable for the E2. See this post and let me know what you think. I'm interested in more comparisons with it but I think it's underwhelming for the price.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zmf-auteur-thread.862918/page-184#post-14685258


----------



## omniweltall

Suppa92 said:


> Does THX has enough power to driver LCD-2Cs? audeze recommends and amp which has power between 1 to 4 watts. And is there sound quality difference ( like: cleaner, bass, treble, midrange, soundstage) using this in Balanced inputs and outputs, even though this is not truly balanced amp?


It gets too loud for the LCD-2C using balanced. More than enough power. And really good synergy. Bass is extended and clean.


----------



## Suppa92 (Dec 29, 2018)

omniweltall said:


> It gets too loud for the LCD-2C using balanced. More than enough power. And really good synergy. Bass is extended and clean.


So there is no audible difference in sound signature between balanced and single ended in thx apart from the loudness?
Could you recommend a good r2r dac to pair with lcd2c & thx? Thinking Soekris dac1321 would be good , I've heard Soekris dacs sound accurate / neutral.


----------



## omniweltall

Suppa92 said:


> So there is no audible difference in sound signature between balanced and single ended in thx apart from the loudness?
> Could you recommend a good r2r dac to pair with lcd2c & thx? Thinking Soekris dac1321 would be good , I've heard Soekris dacs sound accurate / neutral.


My ear can't tell any difference between SE and balanced. Dont worry too much abt it. 

I haven't tried the DAC1321. I tried the DAC1541, and really liked it. Neutral, detailed. 

I'm using Mimby at the moment and I love the pair with the 789 and 2C.


----------



## ayobreezie

I don't know, but Geshelli Labs Enog2 Pro + THX + LCD-X = SECKS.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Suppa92 said:


> Does THX has enough power to driver LCD-2Cs? audeze recommends and amp which has power between 1 to 4 watts. And is there sound quality difference ( like: cleaner, bass, treble, midrange, soundstage) using this in Balanced inputs and outputs, even though this is not truly balanced amp?



The thx has 6 watts at 30 ohms in balanced. The lcd2c is 70 ohm and at that impedance the thx should still have around 3 watts at least.


----------



## hakka

How does the input selector work on this amp? I'm wondering if I can keep 3 sets of cans connected and use the selector to cycle through them so I need need to swap plugs.


----------



## Marlowe

hakka said:


> How does the input selector work on this amp? I'm wondering if I can keep 3 sets of cans connected and use the selector to cycle through them so I need need to swap plugs.


The input selector chooses between the RCA and XLR inputs from a source on the back panel. It has nothing at all to do with the front panel headphone outputs. BTW, you'd have to check but I think I read that only one headphone output is usable at a time.


----------



## jeremya

hakka said:


> How does the input selector work on this amp? I'm wondering if I can keep 3 sets of cans connected and use the selector to cycle through them so I need need to swap plugs.



The input selector is just a momentary switch that toggles between single-ended and balanced inputs. It won’t help you swap between cans.

It sounds like you’re asking about the output selector, though... of which there is none. I’ve tested having both SE and Balanced outputs driven (two sets of cans attached at the same time) and I don’t hear any loss of signal (no apparent volume change) when the second pair is inserted or removed, and all of the cans are driven simultaneously. So, no need to “switch” beyond putting them on.


----------



## hakka

Yeah, i was thinking output selector, that’s why i shouldn’t post on forums before i’ve had my morning coffee. 

Thanks guys.


----------



## ayobreezie

Output works on both single ended at once.. As far as I know.. Dont know if balanced and se work together.. But I think it splits the power so when more than one is plugged.. You get less power to each


----------



## ReAlien (Dec 29, 2018)

ayobreezie said:


> Output works on both single ended at once.. As far as I know.. Dont know if balanced and se work together.. But I think it splits the power so when more than one is plugged.. You get less power to each



You can listen to all three at once, but one should calculate the resistances of all headphones in parallel and make sure that the resulting resistance is not below the minimum allowed threshold of the amplifier, otherwise, that might be damaging.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hUKEwi_162c-8XfAhWLY1AKHULKDEwQ9QEwAHoECAoQBg


----------



## ayobreezie

ReAlien said:


> You can listen to all three at once, but one should calculate the resistances of all headphones in parallel and make sure that the resulting resistance is not below the minimum allowed threshold of the amplifier, otherwise, that might be damaging.
> 
> https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hUKEwi_162c-8XfAhWLY1AKHULKDEwQ9QEwAHoECAoQBg



Yeah I prefer to do one at a time.. But that should help the people who want to plug multiple headphones in for sure.


----------



## eeagle

Marlowe said:


> The input selector chooses between the RCA and XLR inputs from a source on the back panel. It has nothing at all to do with the front panel headphone outputs. BTW, you'd have to check but I think I read that only one headphone output is usable at a time.



You can use all three at once if desired.  The only time it is practical to compare HPs is if they are the same efficiency otherwise you will need to be adjusting the gain/volume, and not much point in comparing balanced to single ended because that output is already at least twice the power of the SE.


----------



## CoFire

Suppa92 said:


> How Ether 2 sounds with THX?



Using the Ether 2 with the m9XX as dac/amp compared to m9XX dac/THX (SE) amp, the m9XX does not disappoint. Mids and highs are comparable, subbass and bass on THX have more control and are tighter giving slight impression of less quantity, but it's really about the same with just more control, less bloom. Impact is about the same. 

Really interested in trying these balanced but I don't have a cable. 

Keep in mind, imo the m9XX does really well with planars. I might need something like an Autuer or HD6XX for a better comparison. You can go either way with the E2.


----------



## torii

can anyone with access to balanced setup play james blake limit to your love https://tidal.com/track/5256198 without grenading your headphones past 1 oclock?  looking for a bassy headphone better than sennheiser or focal....


----------



## BrotherKathos

torii said:


> can anyone with access to balanced setup play james blake limit to your love https://tidal.com/track/5256198 without grenading your headphones past 1 oclock?  looking for a bassy headphone better than sennheiser or focal....



If you want headphones with perfect bass, then you will not find any better than Audeze. I love my LCD2C.


----------



## torii

planar magnetic and bass...I need to listen.  thanks


----------



## BrotherKathos

torii said:


> planar magnetic and bass...I need to listen.  thanks


 I think you will be pleased with them. I find the LCD2C to be pretty much perfect to my tastes. They have amazing bass extension, nice sound stage, super low distortion, and are able to be extremely revealing without becoming harsh or dry. I love them. 

The only down side is their weight, but at least I've got a strong neck from all the years of football so they don't bother me much there. The headband and ear pads are very supple. They do create a seal on your head though, which some people find bothersome. I don't mind it at all and don't even really notice it.


----------



## torii

i will take you up on going out for a listen on them...having sennheiser for a couple decades my neck really likes light weight...my focals heavy


----------



## BrotherKathos

torii said:


> i will take you up on going out for a listen on them...having sennheiser for a couple decades my neck really likes light weight...my focals heavy



The Audeze are at least twice as heavy as my Senn Hd6xx, so if weight really bothers you it might be a prob. Just do some neck strengthening exercises and you'll be golden


----------



## torii

cant have them too heavy to stunt the growth of my balding hair growth


----------



## BrotherKathos

torii said:


> cant have them too heavy to stunt the growth of my balding hair growth



Just shave it off. Who needs hair anyway when you can have great music!!??   

I'm gonna have to shave mine soon. Damn MPB.....


----------



## torii

sound like my better half...shaving my head is coming...but Im holding off as long as possible....even shampooing with rosemary drops as I love my hair


----------



## BrotherKathos

torii said:


> sound like my better half...shaving my head is coming...but Im holding off as long as possible....even shampooing with rosemary drops as I love my hair



The best of luck to you  in your battle!!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

it was around 2 years ago my wife said you know it looks like your hairline has receded some. so i said well then im growing out the rest as long as i have with it. 2 years later and its longer then hers it now. she wants me to shave it all the time and im like well then you shouldnt have said anything haha. i also play in a 80-90's type metal band so it works for that also.


----------



## torii

Im 46 and not outrageous yet...but its been going fast enough where I am self conscious.  I am retired 20+ military so know all about shaved hair styles


----------



## ayobreezie

I agree with the people recommending Audeze LCD's.  Just got the LCD-X yesterday.  Replaced DT 1990's, which became too bright and fatiguing after I got the THX.  I like a more neutral/balanced signature.. And the LCD-X is neutral/balanced, but slightly warm to me.  Bass is nice, clean and very satisfying.  Just the right amount for me.  A bit more than the DT 1990 with balanced pads.  The LCD2 is supposed to be more bassy than these, so definitely look into Audeze if you are in search of bass.


----------



## devante1977

I can second the LCD-X recommendation via 4pin  XLR.


----------



## hakka

ayobreezie said:


> Replaced DT 1990's, which became too bright and fatiguing after I got the THX.



What amp did you have before the THX? 

I currently have 1990s and magni3 and was planning on getting the THX on the next drop.


----------



## ayobreezie

hakka said:


> What amp did you have before the THX?
> 
> I currently have 1990s and magni3 and was planning on getting the THX on the next drop.



I have the Magni 3.. It's been in the box since I got it because it's not as clean or as powerful as my onboard sound card that has a stock headphone amp.  Should give you an idea.. It was more powerful than the Magni 3 and a cleaner sound.  The THX is a lot more powerful than what I had and a noticeable amount cleaner in sound.  But get it, you wont be disappointed.


----------



## ayobreezie

devante1977 said:


> I can second the LCD-X recommendation via 4pin  XLR.


Yeahup.. The balanced cable is my next purchase and likely Dekoni hybrid pads.. Because I cant stand leather.. Okay at the moment but spring/summer.. Wouldnt even be able to use the headphones.


----------



## hakka

ayobreezie said:


> my onboard sound card that has a stock headphone amp.



Was that an AE-5?


----------



## ayobreezie

hakka said:


> Was that an AE-5?



Z270X-Gaming-k7 mobo.  Don't remember what was on it.. But pretty damn good sound for onboard.


----------



## jeremya

torii said:


> can anyone with access to balanced setup play james blake limit to your love https://tidal.com/track/5256198 without grenading your headphones past 1 oclock?  looking for a bassy headphone better than sennheiser or focal....



For what it's worth, I'm using a pair of HE-1000s (v1) with a MOON Audio Black Dragon balanced cable and I can bury the needle (at max gain) on that track without any audible distortion.

Now, my ears would rather I not listen that loud for more than a long stretch, but i don't hear any obvious clipping or other distortion.  Deep, taut bass there. But not overdone relative to the overall soundscape. They aren't "bassy" headphones by any stretch... but they play what they're given well.


----------



## ReAlien

BrotherKathos said:


> If you want headphones with perfect bass, then you will not find any better than Audeze. I love my LCD2C.



Well, in my taste they are too bassy) It's always better to have a listen before buying. I thought I would like them from reading forums but real listening in a shop shown that I don't like the way they make all sound become dark and boomy. It's a pity as I liked some details they reveal in mids.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jan 8, 2019)

delete. no longer have the second amp. ill re order another next time they are in stock maybe. i traded this one to a friend it was to good of a trade to pass on lol.


----------



## ayobreezie

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> in confused. i got my second unit today and its serial number 98?? i find it a bit odd after all the ones they have sold to have such a low serial number unit come to me. the case also has a good bow in in on top where the back plate is screwed onto the main top. the top bulges way down in the middle of the unit its instantly noticeable. and this selector switch on II is now sitting at like 10 o clock vs the other one i have where its at 1-2oclock. the finish is almost flawless minus a small very very tiny nick on a bottom corner where you can see the silver color under the black. the only thing that really bothers me is the bow on top it looks just bad. and the #98 serial is confusing to me. after they have sold so many of them.
> 
> note my other unit is flawless as far as i can tell minus the selector knob being off a bit. and i love this amp so ill be keeping it. just was like how the heck did i get number 98?



Seems like a dud or a returned unit or something.  Should definitely contact Massdrop.


----------



## spacequeen7

Purchased this unit from fellow Head-fier few days ago and I'm pretty amazed what you get for sub $350,it pushes my iFi IESL with ease , Gain III at noon is as loud I would like -LCD-2 at the end 
Sounds great


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jan 1, 2019)

...........


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

ayobreezie said:


> Seems like a dud or a returned unit or something.  Should definitely contact Massdrop.


it does power on and seems to work fine. not sure. the quality of the black finish on the #98 has also a more rubber like feel to it then my newer numbered unit its hard to explain.


----------



## PhalanxInferna

So as a total newbie what would be the reasons to consider this amp (have to add a dac as well) over the Schiit Jot w/ internal dac?


----------



## CoFire

PhalanxInferna said:


> So as a total newbie what would be the reasons to consider this amp (have to add a dac as well) over the Schiit Jot w/ internal dac?



I was turned onto this amp by its initial Massdrop specs, then the verification measurements by Audio Science Review. People but amps for sound signature and power to drive headphones with plenty of power for dampening. We can all calculate the minimum power to make a headphone perform to a certain volume but I believe there are other factors in the transients that don't present themselves with those basic equations. Essentially, I like to have the extra power on hand to better control drivers and handle transients. 

This amp has plenty of power in SE and balanced, has a "get out of the way" or "wire with a gain" signature which for me is desired because I like to isolate the sound of my headphone and DAC. 

That being said, I do have a Liquid Carbon which has a warm signature for pairing reasons when needed. 

The THX AAA 789 balanced output appeals to me for harder to drive headphones, it's non harsh yet neutral signature appeals to me (as I found the O2 cold, clinical and edgy), it's 3 gain settings allow it to work with a range of headphones and best of all, it's performance to cost ratio is outstanding IMO.

This is a good option for a high powered neutral solid state which I think would require a bit more investment to get something better performing which may not even be needed. Essentially, this could be an end game amp for many. These are exciting times as gear of this quality at this price widely available is a treat that people like me have been waiting for, for quite some time. 

I can't compare this to the Jotunheim, but in my reading, I've had to many concerns with some impressions and the engineering with the Jotunheim and some other Schiit products. Many people love them and that's fine, I just feel, with them, the devil is in the details.


----------



## MacMan31

So does anyone have any idea on when this Amp will be dropped again?? I may actually join this time around.


----------



## justrest

This thing is really tempting, I'll buy it when it comes back in stock.


----------



## ReAlien

MacMan31 said:


> So does anyone have any idea on when this Amp will be dropped again?? I may actually join this time around.



Alas, during the last drop, which lasted a little more than a day, representatives of the company said that next drop will take much longer as the would need to produce a new batch.


----------



## gtbrown50

PhalanxInferna said:


> So as a total newbie what would be the reasons to consider this amp (have to add a dac as well) over the Schiit Jot w/ internal dac?



The Jot is a good amp. In regards to the amplifier section only, I prefer the 789 over the Jot because of the control layout (sound reproduction is such a personal preference I won't go there). The 789 has 3 power levels with front panel control the Jot has two levels with the switch on the back panel, the power switch is on the front panel on the 789 (again the Jot's switch is on the back panel) and the 789 runs cool to the touch whereas the Jot runs quite warm.


----------



## devante1977 (Jan 2, 2019)

PhalanxInferna said:


> So as a total newbie what would be the reasons to consider this amp (have to add a dac as well) over the Schiit Jot w/ internal dac?





gtbrown50 said:


> The Jot is a good amp. In regards to the amplifier section only, I prefer the 789 over the Jot because of the control layout (sound reproduction is such a personal preference I won't go there). The 789 has 3 power levels with front panel control the Jot has two levels with the switch on the back panel, the power switch is on the front panel on the 789 (again the Jot's switch is on the back panel) and the 789 runs cool to the touch whereas the Jot runs quite warm.



Agree with all this as well being an owner of both. By no means is the Jot a bad amp to me its still very good. I only have the amp in black, no dac with the Jot. I use a separate device for that. As for sound, again...that's a personal preference. I prefer the front layout more. There are charts out there for measurements of what the THX and the Jot can do so I will just leave it at that since I am not going to even pretend like I completely understand all the numbers and graphs. Ultimately I do not like to over think this stuff as I want to listen to and enjoy music.  My sound preference is the THX. Very clean and accurate and has all the power I need. I would still recommend the Jot to someone since it is a solid amp that can be upgraded DAC-wise and be much easier to get a hold of than the THX since you have to wait for availability of the THX (to buy new of course) on massdrop vs going to Schiit's website to buy new or even B-stock. I have read many positives about the multibit DAC portion and ended up getting the Jot with the possibility open to upgrade when needed. I just happened to get a great deal on the RME ADI-2 (used) and then the THX became available recently. I am very happy with the THX but honestly, I cannot tell you that you would be losing out on so much listening enjoyment if you didn't get it and ended up with the Jot. Maybe even better if you got with the multibit dac to have an all-in-one device.


----------



## Povell42 (Jan 2, 2019)

I got my 789 last week and have had a few listening sessions now.  So far I am happy with the Mimby => 789 => LCD3. 

*However, I have noticed a couple quirks of the 789 AMP. *

1. I set my headphones down with the music paused for 10-15 minutes and when I came back I heard a significant deep humming sound in my headphones.  I flipped the AMP off and back on and it was gone.  I tested a few times and each time I return to this hum.  No idea why the hum is there.

2. Turning the volume up all the way with nothing playing is silent initially.  But if you play some music, pause it, then turn the volume up I hear the noise floor but after 30 seconds or so, it goes silent again.

*Can anyone else duplicate these quirks*. Maybe it is the technology inside that produces these quirks.  Neither are constant, or destroy the listening experience, but happens only under the circumstances I explained.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Povell42 said:


> I got my 789 last week and have had a few listening sessions now.  So far I am happy with the Mimby => 789 => LCD3.
> 
> *However, I have noticed a couple quirks of the 789 AMP. *
> 
> ...



I get hum as well with my lcd2c, but it goes away when i touch the amp with my hand. Its a static electricity issue for me. see if the hum goes away and comes back when you touch the amp and let go. I’ve got the mimby as well with mine. My setup is next to my bed and i gan get lots of hum if i scoot around and generate static more. Its worse now that its cold and dry here as well.


----------



## ayobreezie

Povell42 said:


> I got my 789 last week and have had a few listening sessions now.  So far I am happy with the Mimby => 789 => LCD3.
> 
> *However, I have noticed a couple quirks of the 789 AMP. *
> 
> ...



My setup is Enog2 Pro => 789 => LCD-X.. Haven't ever had this happen.  Tried your examples.  Nothing, but dead silence.  Maybe it's the mimby?  Or your connection?  Or your player.  I had some static/peaky noise in songs one day.. Closed app.  Opened back up and was gone.  Hasn't returned since.

Oh, also I'm running optical to DAC, balanced inputs.. Single ended out for now.. Until my balanced cable arrives.


----------



## Povell42

ayobreezie said:


> My setup is Enog2 Pro => 789 => LCD-X.. Haven't ever had this happen.  Tried your examples.  Nothing, but dead silence.  Maybe it's the mimby?  Or your connection?  Or your player.  I had some static/peaky noise in songs one day.. Closed app.  Opened back up and was gone.  Hasn't returned since.
> 
> Oh, also I'm running optical to DAC, balanced inputs.. Single ended out for now.. Until my balanced cable arrives.


I am running optical to the mimby as well.  So, for you playing music - pausing music -  and then turning the volume up all the way on high gain.. you hear no noise.  The noise cuts out and stops after about 10 seconds for me.


----------



## Povell42

BrotherKathos said:


> I get hum as well with my lcd2c, but it goes away when i touch the amp with my hand. Its a static electricity issue for me. see if the hum goes away and comes back when you touch the amp and let go. I’ve got the mimby as well with mine. My setup is next to my bed and i gan get lots of hum if i scoot around and generate static more. Its worse now that its cold and dry here as well.


You are right!  The humming stops when I touch the case...  I have it placed on a metal surface here at work which causes more static electricity vs. my desk at home.  I have not experienced this with my other amps in the same location.  So do you think this amp is less insulated from outside sources/static compared to more expensive amps?


----------



## ayobreezie

Povell42 said:


> I am running optical to the mimby as well.  So, for you playing music - pausing music -  and then turning the volume up all the way on high gain.. you hear no noise.  The noise cuts out and stops after about 10 seconds for me.



Yeah I tried that.. Doesn't have any issue.  So maybe Kathos is right.. My amp sits on a wooden desktop


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Povell42 said:


> You are right!  The humming stops when I touch the case...  I have it placed on a metal surface here at work which causes more static electricity vs. my desk at home.  I have not experienced this with my other amps in the same location.  So do you think this amp is less insulated from outside sources/static compared to more expensive amps?



im very curious if you were to ground the chassis to an rca barrel does the noise still remain? i have had a similar thing happen with other amps and it ended up being a poor ground on the amp.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Povell42 said:


> You are right!  The humming stops when I touch the case...  I have it placed on a metal surface here at work which causes more static electricity vs. my desk at home.  I have not experienced this with my other amps in the same location.  So do you think this amp is less insulated from outside sources/static compared to more expensive amps?



I’m not sure about that. Have you tried with different headphones as well? I’ve found that my lcd cause more hum than others.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ayobreezie said:


> Yeah I tried that.. Doesn't have any issue.  So maybe Kathos is right.. My amp sits on a wooden desktop



Mine is on a wooden nightstand next to my bed. It could be a mix of factors like the mimby and lcd in the chain. I might try with different dac and headphones to replicate. I’ve tried using ground elimination on everything in chain. 2 ebtech hum x for dac and amp and ifi idefender 3 for usb from pc with no luck. It seems its from the headphone somehow. 

Its like  The headphone is turning into some sort of conductor. For example I can have my iPad connected to AC power on a different outlet and when my headphones are on my head I can get hum when the iPad is in my hand and connected to an AC outlet. So the electricity from the wall is being conducted from the iPad through  my hands up through my body and skull to the headphones and then from the headphones  and then from the headphones to my amp.

It’s kind of freaky when you think about it. I’ve got juice going through my body. hopefully I don’t turn into the lawnmower man


----------



## CoFire

Povell42 said:


> I got my 789 last week and have had a few listening sessions now.  So far I am happy with the Mimby => 789 => LCD3.
> 
> *However, I have noticed a couple quirks of the 789 AMP. *
> 
> ...



I am using the m9XX DAC and have heard no hum. I have a Mimby in queue to test. I'll hook it up today and give it a run to see if I can repeat this. First I've heard of this in this thread. What's your connection between the Mimby and THX?


----------



## gtbrown50

Povell42 said:


> I got my 789 last week and have had a few listening sessions now.  So far I am happy with the Mimby => 789 => LCD3.
> 
> *However, I have noticed a couple quirks of the 789 AMP. *
> 
> ...



I have two 789s and haven't exerienced anything similar to that.......


----------



## Marlowe (Jan 3, 2019)

I haven't noticed any humming problem with the THX 789 in the week I've had it and did not hear any when I tried to duplicate it. I'm using a Focal Elex on gain 2; the THX is being fed Tidal Hifi through a Schiit Eitr and Mimby. FWIW, I'm connecting the Eitr to my laptop with an Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable, Blue Jeans Cable coaxial from Eitr to Miby and Blue Jeans RCAs to the THX.

Edit: In case it matters, I forgot to note that I am using the Elex from the balanced XLR output.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I just changed my headphones around to see if I could replicate in other areas. I've got 2 thx amps in different locations to test. I unplugged the lcd2c  from my bedside setup and hooked up my balanced hd6xx to it. I then scooted around a bit in bed to generate some static and could not get any hum. I'll keep them like this for a few days to see if hum ever comes back with those or not. 

I already have a pretty good idea the issue is partly due to the Audeze headphones and their seeming ability to conduct electricity through the earpads and your body. Maybe the velour pads of the hd6xx keep this from happening as much. I've got the lcd2c on my other station right now that is just a wooden office desk and leather chair, so not much static being generated here, and so far no hum with the lcd2c and thx on this station.


----------



## Povell42 (Jan 3, 2019)

I will be taking my DAC/AMP home with me soon and will set it up there and see if it still does it.  I moved the AMP off of the metal surface and placed it on the desk at work and it still hums after letting sit, even with the amp in off mode. I have the Mimby sitting on top of the AMP and I noticed when I take the Mimby off of the AMP the noise somewhat disappears. I have the Mimby hooked up to the 789 via Monoprice RCA to 3 prong balanced cables.   I have the LCD3 pluged into the balanced output of the 789

I have owned the LCD3 for about 2 years and have never had this happen before, anywhere.  I am starting to wonder if I have a bad ground on the AMP.  Before I got the 769, my main setup was Mimby to Aune X7s to LCD3.  With that setup in the same location I never notice this humming, so I don't think it is the LCD3's at fault.

UPDATE:  I am thinking it has something to do with the "Auto Off" mode.  I have not been able to produce the hum when I turn the AMP to "BYPASS" mode... which is basically off.

UPDATE #2:  I heard the hum faintly with the 789 in "Bypass" mode.  DANG!


----------



## BrotherKathos (Jan 3, 2019)

Povell42 said:


> I will be taking my DAC/AMP home with me soon and will set it up there and see if it still does it.  I moved the AMP off of the metal surface and placed it on the desk at work and it still hums after letting sit, even with the amp in off mode. I have the Mimby sitting on top of the AMP and I noticed when I take the Mimby off of the AMP the noise somewhat disappears. I have the Mimby hooked up to the 789 via Monoprice RCA to 3 prong balanced cables.   I have the LCD3 pluged into the balanced output of the 789
> 
> I have owned the LCD3 for about 2 years and have never had this happen before, anywhere.  I am starting to wonder if I have a bad ground on the AMP.  Before I got the 769, my main setup was Mimby to Aune X7s to LCD3.  With that setup in the same location I never notice this humming, so I don't think it is the LCD3's at fault.
> 
> ...



I switched my headphones to the hd6xx and dac to topping d50 with eitr on my bedroom setup with thx and now hum is gone. The lcd2c is at my other rig with mimbt eitr and loki. the stack is next to amp and not on top anymore and hum is gone there as well so far. I think its a combo of amp dac and headphones,  ut headphone is the main culprit imo. otherwise how would having my ipad in my hand and the headphone on my head cause a ground noise. i can literally play hum tunes as i grab and let go of the ipad if it’s charging. That is only possible if the headphone is conducting electricity through my body.


----------



## BrotherKathos

its like the drivers of the headphone become connected to each other through your head due to passing current through your brain. SCARY


----------



## Povell42 (Jan 4, 2019)

Just tested for both of the issues at home now, and *neither are present*.  *NO* noise after pausing music and then the volume all the way up, and *NO* noise after letting it sit for like 20 minutes.  So weird!

Maybe its static electricity, or dirty power at work?  I am stumped. I have never experienced that at work before.

I am using digital coaxial cable form my motherboard into the Mimby at home.. and was using USB to a creative sound external sound card that has a digital optical output to the Mimby.    Either way, I am confused. Hehe


----------



## omniweltall

You should contact massdrop and get a replacement, mate.


----------



## Voxata

I've had absolutely no issues with my THX789. It runs cool, sounds good. Performance is exemplary.


----------



## alpovs

Povell42 said:


> I have the Mimby hooked up to the 789 via Monoprice RCA to 3 prong balanced cables.


I think this is the key! Connect either RCA to RCA or balanced to balanced. RCA to balanced is a misnomer. This cable is actually balanced to RCA and should not be used in reverse. Try RCA to RCA and see if your problems are gone.


----------



## Povell42

alpovs said:


> I think this is the key! Connect either RCA to RCA or balanced to balanced. RCA to balanced is a misnomer. This cable is actually balanced to RCA and should not be used in reverse. Try RCA to RCA and see if your problems are gone.



Good suggestion, although I have not been able to duplicate the issues when I have it set up in my home office.  Must be something weird about my work office.


----------



## bequietjk

torii said:


> I used fleetwood mac as a reference due to many recordings being way out of control in how they are mixed (loudness wars).  steely dan, pink floyd also seem to be recorded very well.  so my definition of loud enough is that fleetwood mac isnt quite loud enough with volume halfway on hd 600...oh, should mention I was using tidal...maybe my flacs on hd louder...Im just thinking if I had 600 ohm headphones no way would this amp cut it...just my opinion.  lots of music out there I would have to turn down alot.



Any change in audio hardware I go directly to 96khz FLAC Fleetwood Mac Rumors then jump to Steely Dan, eventually making my way to some more electronic music.  But the first track I always play is 'Dreams' off of Rumors.  Get's me every time.


----------



## Marlowe

The first thing I always play when I get new headphones or other new gear is Behind Blue Eyes from The Who's Who's Next, my favorite album of all time since I bought it on vinyl in 1971. Nothing better to judge new gear than John Entwistle's deep and melodic bass.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Dark Side of the Moon from Floyd for me on a new system.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Dark Side of the Moon from Floyd for me on a new system.



Good choice.  

I finally got notice from Periapt that my XLR cable for my HD6XX is on its way. Can’t wait to try it out.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Good choice.
> 
> I finally got notice from Periapt that my XLR cable for my HD6XX is on its way. Can’t wait to try it out.



Nice! I got a balanced one from massdrop that I've been pleased with. I don't get past 12:00 on low with the hd6xx with the balanced output. Makes the hd6xx very nice imo with the thx and topping D50 I'm using in the chain.


----------



## Zachik

BrotherKathos said:


> Dark Side of the Moon from Floyd for me on a new system.


Dire Straits for me... Sultans of swing, Money for nothing, Brothers in arms.


----------



## ReAlien (Jan 5, 2019)

My audio gear testing playlist:

Yes - Roundabout
Pink Floyd - Us and Them
Dire Straits - The Man's Too Strong
Elvis - Fever
Led Zeppelin - You Shook Me
Diamanda Galas - Artemis
Slayer - Live Undead
David Bowie - Five Years
Doors - L.A. Woman
Deep Purple - Soldier of Fortune
Frank Black and the Catholics - Stupid Me
Beck - Paper Tiger
Mimicking Birds - Pixels / Subsonic Words

P.S. Still waiting for my THX to arrive to test it with it, in a week time I will do that.)))


----------



## omniweltall

ReAlien said:


> My audio gear testing playlist:
> 
> King Crimson - Roundabout
> Pink Floyd - Us and Them
> ...


Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Marlowe

ReAlien said:


> My audio gear testing playlist:
> 
> King Crimson - Roundabout


Do you mean Yes? I can't find any reference to a King Crimson song of that title. (Off topic, but Yes finally made it to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Will justice ever be done for Mountain, Jethro Tull, and especially Warren Zevon? When you look at the lengthy list of talentless hacks in the HoF, their exclusion is embarrassing.)


----------



## ReAlien

Marlowe said:


> Do you mean Yes? I can't find any reference to a King Crimson song of that title.



Oops, that's morning mistake, sorry, you're right, of course.)


----------



## MacMan31

So I noticed that the Massdrop LCX amp is active and is cheaper than the THX 789 at $299 vs $349. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp

I also noticed this same amp is being sold used here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649488364-massdrop-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-lcx-amplifier/

Is it better to wait for the THX 789 to drop again or grab the LCX amp? Either one would be paired with my Grace SDAC and used with balanced out once my Periapt XLR cable comes in.


----------



## ayobreezie

MacMan31 said:


> So I noticed that the Massdrop LCX amp is active and is cheaper than the THX 789 at $299 vs $349. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp
> 
> I also noticed this same amp is being sold used here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649488364-massdrop-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-lcx-amplifier/
> 
> Is it better to wait for the THX 789 to drop again or grab the LCX amp? Either one would be paired with my Grace SDAC and used with balanced out once my Periapt XLR cable comes in.



I had the same question at one point.. Was told wait for the THX.. Because it competes with more expensive amps.. Glad I waited for it.. Because it's great.  But I dont think the next drop will be for awhile.. So you would have a longer wait than I did.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i own both. imo wait for the thx or try to find one gently used. no contest imo.


----------



## MacMan31

ayobreezie said:


> I had the same question at one point.. Was told wait for the THX.. Because it competes with more expensive amps.. Glad I waited for it.. Because it's great.  But I dont think the next drop will be for awhile.. So you would have a longer wait than I did.



I do have an Aune X7S right now which does very well. I'd say my only gripe with the X7S is the rear power switch and the gain switch on the bottom. I'd rather both on the front panel. I don't mind waiting but yeah it seems like I'll be waiting a while.


----------



## MacMan31

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i own both. imo wait for the thx or try to find one gently used. no contest imo.



Is it possible you could give a short comparison of the two please?


----------



## escalibur

MacMan31 said:


> So I noticed that the Massdrop LCX amp is active and is cheaper than the THX 789 at $299 vs $349. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp
> 
> I also noticed this same amp is being sold used here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649488364-massdrop-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-lcx-amplifier/
> 
> Is it better to wait for the THX 789 to drop again or grab the LCX amp? Either one would be paired with my Grace SDAC and used with balanced out once my Periapt XLR cable comes in.




I would wait for the 789:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

vs..

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x.4947/


----------



## MacMan31 (Jan 7, 2019)

escalibur said:


> I would wait for the 789:
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links. I will check those out. I don't really know what the info in the graphs and charts mean though.


----------



## Marlowe

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the links. I will check those out. I don't really know what the info in the graphs and charts mean though.


A whole lot of stuff that is audible--maybe--only to bats.


----------



## MacMan31

Marlowe said:


> A whole lot of stuff that is audible--maybe--only to bats.



Hehe fair enough. I don't hear any distortion or hissing or whatnot with my X7S so I imagine I won't hear any with the THX 789 either. To me the X7S is clean sounding. Guess I'm just venturing down the "rabbit hole" of audio.


----------



## Kamurah

MacMan31 said:


> Either one would be paired with my Grace SDAC and used with balanced out once my Periapt XLR cable comes in.



Maybe you stated this earlier...but is there a reason you are using XLR cables with the SDAC?  It has RCA outs right? 

If that is the case, using an RCA > XLR cable would not give you a balanced signal, and would offer no advantage to just RCA > RCA in your audio path.

Or are you talking about a different cable?

Sorry just trying to understand.


----------



## MacMan31

Kamurah said:


> Maybe you stated this earlier...but is there a reason you are using XLR cables with the SDAC?  It has RCA outs right?
> 
> If that is the case, using an RCA > XLR cable would not give you a balanced signal, and would offer no advantage to just RCA > RCA in your audio path.
> 
> ...



I will be using a balanced XLR headphone cable for my HD6XX. The SDAC doesn't have balanced output on the back and my Aune X7S does not have balanced input. But it does have a "balanced" headphone output as does the THX 789. Not sure why my explanations are confusing for people.


----------



## Kamurah

MacMan31 said:


> I will be using a balanced XLR headphone cable for my HD6XX. The SDAC doesn't have balanced output on the back and my Aune X7S does not have balanced input. But it does have a "balanced" headphone output as does the THX 789. Not sure why my explanations are confusing for people.



I was confused when you mentioned an XLR connection right after SDAC.  Sorry, my mistake.


----------



## MacMan31

Kamurah said:


> I was confused when you mentioned an XLR connection right after SDAC.  Sorry, my mistake.



Oh okay. No worries. Perhaps I was not phrasing things correctly.


----------



## areek

Got my unit 2 days back (bought a month back via a friend). Hooked it up with the Audio GD R2R11 as line out using a RCA to 3 pin XLR cable (seismic audio) and then into the LCD-2 via 4 pin xlr. Massive upgrade over the r2r11 amp.


----------



## Marlowe

MacMan31 said:


> Hehe fair enough. I don't hear any distortion or hissing or whatnot with my X7S so I imagine I won't hear any with the THX 789 either. To me the X7S is clean sounding. Guess I'm just venturing down the "rabbit hole" of audio.


BTW, I should be clear that I am not suggested that there are no audible differences between amps. Though I am relatively new to the hobby, and my 65 year-old ears are not well trained, I can hear some differences and have read impressions from people with better educated ears than me, and whose opinion I respect, that discuss these differences. However these subjective opinions are expressly verboten on ASR which pretty much only publish test results--indeed, I even find it hard to consider them reviews since they pretty much intentionally eschew any independent judgment. Like differences in frequency range and distortion specs that are already beyond human hearing on the "worst" performing gear, a lot of these stats tell a listener little to nothing.


----------



## MacMan31

Marlowe said:


> BTW, I should be clear that I am not suggested that there are no audible differences between amps. Though I am relatively new to the hobby, and my 65 year-old ears are not well trained, I can hear some differences and have read impressions from people with better educated ears than me, and whose opinion I respect, that discuss these differences. However these subjective opinions are expressly verboten on ASR which pretty much only publish test results--indeed, I even find it hard to consider them reviews since they pretty much intentionally eschew any independent judgment. Like differences in frequency range and distortion specs that are already beyond human hearing on the "worst" performing gear, a lot of these stats tell a listener little to nothing.



No worries. I don't think I'd consider myself an "audiophile" myself. So far I haven't been able to noticeably distinguish between 320Kbps AAC (VBR) and Lossless.


----------



## eeagle

MacMan31 said:


> I will be using a balanced XLR headphone cable for my HD6XX. The SDAC doesn't have balanced output on the back and my Aune X7S does not have balanced input. But it does have a "balanced" headphone output as does the THX 789. Not sure why my explanations are confusing for people.



FYI the SDAC is available with balanced outputs.

I also have both the 789 and the LCX+SDAC.

I got the LCX and the Elex about the same time and love the "Cavalli Sound" with my more analytical HPs, it provides a bit of tube style warmth and colors the sound in a positive way that I totally enjoy.

I picked up the 789 later on primarily to drive planar HPs, and it is like many say the amplified wire providing a good amplified replica of your source material.

If I were to get just one I think the LCX  would be my choice especially if you have efficient HPs.  The LCX w/built in SDAC is especially capable and can be configured many ways with the multiple inputs, and the SDAC can be used as a stand alone unit as well.


----------



## MrPanda

BrotherKathos said:


> Nice! I got a balanced one from massdrop that I've been pleased with. I don't get past 12:00 on low with the hd6xx with the balanced output. Makes the hd6xx very nice imo with the thx and topping D50 I'm using in the chain.



I'm really surprised at how much better a decent balanced cable makes the hd6xx sound with the THX amp...


----------



## BrotherKathos

MrPanda said:


> I'm really surprised at how much better a decent balanced cable makes the hd6xx sound with the THX amp...


Yes, the hd6xx with the thx amp, good cables and a decent dac is truly a jack of all trades setup. If you were only going to ha e one setup and your budget is under 1k total I don’t think you will beat it. If you like r2r sound then its the Schiit modi multibit, for delta sigma I’d vote for the Topping D50. Thx is also the amp that works well with all my headphones, where all the others have certain headphones that work well and ohers that are not so good.


----------



## MrPanda

BrotherKathos said:


> Yes, the hd6xx with the thx amp, good cables and a decent dac is truly a jack of all trades setup. If you were only going to ha e one setup and your budget is under 1k total I don’t think you will beat it. If you like r2r sound then its the Schiit modi multibit, for delta sigma I’d vote for the Topping D50. Thx is also the amp that works well with all my headphones, where all the others have certain headphones that work well and ohers that are not so good.


I've been using the Schiit multibit Bifrost with it, and it sounds great... really a surprising improvement from the Asgard 2 I was using.  I don't have a balanced DAC yet, but that's my next step.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MrPanda said:


> I've been using the Schiit multibit Bifrost with it, and it sounds great... really a surprising improvement from the Asgard 2 I was using.  I don't have a balanced DAC yet, but that's my next step.



l also like the thx more than my asgard 2. The asgard only really shines with planar dynamics imo. The sound is too grainy and hazy with the hd6xx and my other senns and dynamic headphones. Love it with my he-400i and lcd2c though. really good with those phones.


----------



## MrPanda

BrotherKathos said:


> l also like the thx more than my asgard 2. The asgard only really shines with planar dynamics imo. The sound is too grainy and hazy with the hd6xx and my other senns and dynamic headphones. Love it with my he-400i and lcd2c though. really good with those phones.


Really agree... I have a 400i, but there's something about the treble that made them a little fatiguing for me.  Right now I'm really enjoying the thx with Focal clears.    Also, the THX really behaves well with all the headphones I've tried it with, even Dekoni Blues...


----------



## MacMan31

eeagle said:


> FYI the SDAC is available with balanced outputs.
> 
> I also have both the 789 and the LCX+SDAC.
> 
> ...



I "requested" the balanced SDAC but that was a while back. So far it has not dropped again. 

I was looking at the LCX+SDAC or the standalone LCX (because I already have the SDAC). Both those amps are active drops right now. I'm sure I could be happy with any one of the Massdrop amp options. Just don't know which one to pick between the LCX+SDAC, LCX, or THX 789. They all seem to have overall great reviews and ratings. I'm using the Sennheiser HD6XX and 58X headphones currently.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> I "requested" the balanced SDAC but that was a while back. So far it has not dropped again.
> 
> I was looking at the LCX+SDAC or the standalone LCX (because I already have the SDAC). Both those amps are active drops right now. I'm sure I could be happy with any one of the Massdrop amp options. Just don't know which one to pick between the LCX+SDAC, LCX, or THX 789. They all seem to have overall great reviews and ratings. I'm using the Sennheiser HD6XX and 58X headphones currently.


Wait for the thx. Its perfect for your current gear. Just be patient and satisfied later.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Wait for the thx. Its perfect for your current gear. Just be patient and satisfied later.



Hmm okay. No matter which one I pick it would be pretty pricy given the exchange to Canadian dollars. The THX 789 would be close to $500.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. No matter which one I pick it would be pretty pricy given the exchange to Canadian dollars. The THX 789 would be close to $500.


Still worth it at $500. I cant think of anything else i’d rather have at $500 instead.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Still worth it at $500. I cant think of anything else i’d rather have at $500 instead.



Hmm must be very good then. I have heard of some people having issues such as the gain switch not lining up with each gain level marking or the volume knob not feeling as solid when adjusting the volume. The latter they are referring to the volume "pot" whatever that means.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm must be very good then. I have heard of some people having issues such as the gain switch not lining up with each gain level marking or the volume knob not feeling as solid when adjusting the volume. The latter they are referring to the volume "pot" whatever that means.



That seems to be mainly for the very first drop. I’ve got 2 of them from the recent drops and my knob is ram rod straight on both units. No issues with pot either. No low volume channel imbalance at all that i can tell. The only thing i noticed that was a little strange was a static feedback hum feom my planar headphone lcd2c and the music coming through headphones at extreme low volume level even with pot turned all the way down. No hum with hd6xx in same condition and the music bleed is a non issue imo as it does not affect sq, or if it does its doung something good to it


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> That seems to be mainly for the very first drop. I’ve got 2 of them from the recent drops and my knob is ram rod straight on both units. No issues with pot either. No low volume channel imbalance at all that i can tell. The only thing i noticed that was a little strange was a static feedback hum feom my planar headphone lcd2c and the music coming through headphones at extreme low volume level even with pot turned all the way down. No hum with hd6xx in same condition and the music bleed is a non issue imo as it does not affect sq, or if it does its doung something good to it



Hmm okay. Guess it's good I didn't join the first drop. But when "volume pot" is mentioned what is that referring to?


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. Guess it's good I didn't join the first drop. But when "volume pot" is mentioned what is that referring to?



volume pot is just another name for volume knob. pot is short for potentiometer.
Pot is a pretty old school volume control but still widespread in use.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> volume pot is just another name for volume knob. pot is short for potentiometer.
> Pot is a pretty old school volume control but still widespread in use.



Oh okay. Thank you. Guess I will wait for the THX 789. Still waiting on my Periapt XLR cable for my HD6XX.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jan 8, 2019)

even my newer serial unit gain selector is still not straight i wonder if the knob can be taken off the put back on straight has anyone tried? i ended up trading the early serial unit to a friend anyway but id still like to correct the newer unit if possible.


----------



## MacMan31

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> even my newer serial unit gain selector is still not straight i wonder if the knob can be taken off the put back on straight has anyone tried? i ended up trading the early serial unit to a friend anyway but id still like to correct the newer unit if possible.



That's what I'm worried about when buying this amp. If I'm going to be paying ~$500 Canadian for it then it better be in perfect condition and solidly built.


----------



## eeagle

MacMan31 said:


> Oh okay. Thank you. Guess I will wait for the THX 789. Still waiting on my Periapt XLR cable for my HD6XX.



And miss that Cavalli Sound?  Another cheaper alternative that is SE only is the Monolith by Monoprice Liquid Spark Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli, many times less than $100 US when on sale.


----------



## Voxata

Just take it off, bend lightly and put the knob back on. My selector came straight though.


----------



## CoFire

MacMan31 said:


> So I noticed that the Massdrop LCX amp is active and is cheaper than the THX 789 at $299 vs $349. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp
> 
> I also noticed this same amp is being sold used here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649488364-massdrop-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-lcx-amplifier/
> 
> Is it better to wait for the THX 789 to drop again or grab the LCX amp? Either one would be paired with my Grace SDAC and used with balanced out once my Periapt XLR cable comes in.





MacMan31 said:


> I "requested" the balanced SDAC but that was a while back. So far it has not dropped again.
> 
> I was looking at the LCX+SDAC or the standalone LCX (because I already have the SDAC). Both those amps are active drops right now. I'm sure I could be happy with any one of the Massdrop amp options. Just don't know which one to pick between the LCX+SDAC, LCX, or THX 789. They all seem to have overall great reviews and ratings. I'm using the Sennheiser HD6XX and 58X headphones currently.



I have both these amps and headphones, what signature do you prefer? what music do you listen to? Can you give me 2-3 songs? Does the DAC matter to you?


----------



## MacMan31

CoFire said:


> I have both these amps and headphones, what signature do you prefer? what music do you listen to? Can you give me 2-3 songs? Does the DAC matter to you?



 Not sure what “signature” I prefer but I don’t usually listen to bass heavy music. I mainly listen to orchestral/classical, movie scores, classic rock, jazz, blues, some pop. I’m not familiar enough with DAC variations to say if it matters or not.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Voxata said:


> Just take it off, bend lightly and put the knob back on. My selector came straight though.


not sure if this knob is held on with anything but i sure as hell cant get it off.


----------



## Voxata (Jan 8, 2019)

That is unfortunate. I'd take the cover off and see if there is a screw assembly behind the panel holding it on. *edit* doesn't look like it. May be glued on ;(


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

it sucks because its flawless minus the gain knob and i would love to center it because im ocd like that. not sure i want to pull any harder though i gave it a pretty good (gentle enough) pull and it wasnt budging


----------



## Voxata

No way of pressuring it? You may take the casing off completely so that you can manipulate it further. Just don't bend using the casing - only from the knob. Looks snug though.. who knows, you might get lucky.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

anyone have a model number of what switch it uses for the gain? im curious to know if there is a flat spot on there or if its just teeth all the way around. if it has a flat spot on the shaft it will not be able to be relocated anyway


----------



## Voxata

You should post a picture, so we can better see what exactly is off.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jan 8, 2019)

i dont have it with me at the moment. but there is a I II and III printed on the front. when the knob is set to the second detent (what should be II) its almost pointing to the I setting as per the print on the face it sits far to the left for each detent. its centered in the hole on the face but where its supposed to be straight up and down on setting II this one points to just above setting I and at the III detent its its actually pointing to between II and III. i find it annoying because upon a quick glance at where the knob is set to you would think its set to the I setting even though its on II. very annoying


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jan 8, 2019)

this is kind of an idea for you so its hard to know if its actually on setting one or two just by looking


----------



## Voxata

Oh yeah.. that is indeed annoying. I'll have to check out my unit more closely when able.


----------



## MacMan31

That would annoy me greatly as well. Perhaps Massdrop needs better quality control.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

im not the only one if you search the thread at massdrop a number of people seemed to complain about the same thing some more off then others.


----------



## bequietjk

It was not a good idea for me to pop in here with a message a few days ago, knowing well of the auto-thread subcribing...

Now I feel I must have a THX AAA with every email notification that happens.  My inbox is full of 'head.fi THX AAA 789'.

MASSDROP, PLEASE.  I CANNOT WAIT ANY LONGER!!!!!


----------



## Marlowe

I didn't even notice that the gain switch was improperly aligned until I read this. Upon checking, it seems OK, or very close, with gains 1 and 3, but definitely misaligned with gain 2--it should be straight up at 12 o'clock but is somewhere between 11 and 12. As it happens, gain 2 is where I usually am with the Focal Elex which is what I am usually using so far with the amp. And you know what? Although I definitely have a touch of OCD for things like this, for whatever reason it bothers me not at all. It clicks into position flawlessly and it is obvious where it is set. I had a similar reaction to the scratchy pot on the CTH. I noticed that sometimes, though not always, when I adjusted volume on the CTH, there was a slight audible rustle. I didn't adjust volume that often, the sound was very minor, and it only lasted a split second or so. I couldn't believe that people went to the trouble of returning the unit for a replacement over this de minimus issue. Maybe my OCD is moderating at age 65.


----------



## torii

how many people color in the volume knob indent?  I put whiteout in mine then painted some glow in dark neon paint on the whiteout.  so much happier now when I look over at amp and can tell volume position.


----------



## SnowRunner

Ok HeadFi'ers, I have a bit of a bone to pick...
If this THX amp really is so disruptive by performing so much above its weight class, why haven't so many other brands or engineers been able to implement this 'feed-forward' circuitry out? Especially since its a 20+ year old tech, off-patent & according to Amir at you know where, there are no custom THX parts, just off the shelf standard Texas instruments components.
As he mentions, we will likely see a slew of similar products within a year or two using similar circuit designs, which will only be great for all of us consumers. But I feel like amp engineers need to get their game faces on to answer this $350 bundle of joy.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the next drop , but will definitely get that neon paint on the volume knob indent, thanks for that nugget @torii


----------



## CoFire (Jan 9, 2019)

SnowRunner said:


> Ok HeadFi'ers, I have a bit of a bone to pick...
> If this THX amp really is so disruptive by performing so much above its weight class, why haven't so many other brands or engineers been able to implement this 'feed-forward' circuitry out? Especially since its a 20+ year old tech, off-patent & according to Amir at you know where, there are no custom THX parts, just off the shelf standard Texas instruments components.
> As he mentions, we will likely see a slew of similar products within a year or two using similar circuit designs, which will only be great for all of us consumers. But I feel like amp engineers need to get their game faces on to answer this $350 bundle of joy.
> 
> BTW, I'm still waiting for the next drop , but will definitely get that neon paint on the volume knob indent, thanks for that nugget @torii



Yeah right? Or maybe something like this has been available, but manufacturer's would rather squeeze us for margin?

I have been swapping between this amp over the last couple days and a Bravo V2, Grace m9XX, Liquid Carbon (LCX) and Massdrop CTH all driven by the Grace m9XX DAC or Node DAC and this amp is the least colored of anything I have with plenty of power to drive anything I've got. It's sound is noticeably more clean, digital if you will but not cold or analytical, yet, I feel I get more unsmoothed detail from this amp than anything else.

A friend of mine ordered one on a whim like I did and he can't wait to get back home to receive it. After hearing mine of course, though he ordered before listening.

There is still synergy between amps and headphones that this may not fit the bill, but if you are looking for a more accurate rendition of a recording, I think this does a fine job while still retaining a musical edge.

For example, it makes the HD6XX sound great, no veil, but the HD6XX has a certain synergy with the CTH. You can listen to both depending on your taste at the moment. I wouldn't say the CTH makes it obsolete.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Jan 9, 2019)

CoFire said:


> Yeah right? Or maybe something like this has been available, but manufacturer's would rather squeeze us for margin?
> 
> I have been swapping between this amp over the last couple days and a Bravo V2, Grace m9XX, Liquid Carbon (LCX) and Massdrop CTH all driven by the Grace m9XX DAC or Node DAC and this amp is the least colored of anything I have with plenty of power to drive anything I've got. It's sound is noticeably more clean, digital if you will but not cold or analytical, yet, I feel I get more unsmoothed detail from this amp than anything else.
> 
> ...



I'm assuming you meant to say 'the *6xx has a certain synergy with the CTH'. Glad to hear you still prefer the CTH since I'm planning on keeping mine for my hd600.

I've been toiling the internet over which dac/amp or combo to get but even all my searching online leaves me with the same answer (THX), so many other offerings either have minor issues or conflict of interests for me. As a musician and music lover having one setup that I can trust is an honest representation of the source material would be ideal and TOTL for me.


----------



## CoFire

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm assuming you meant to say 'the *6xx has a certain synergy with the CTH'. Glad to hear you still prefer the CTH since I'm planning on keeping mine for my hd600.
> 
> I've been toiling the internet over which dac/amp or combo to get but even all my searching online leaves me with the same answer (THX), so many other offerings either have minor issues or conflict of interests for me. As a musician and music lover having one setup that I can trust is an honest representation of the source material would be ideal and TOTL for me.



I really liked the CTH with the HD6XX, HD58X and ZMF Autuer. They weren't unenjoyable on the THX AAA 789, but offered a great combination of tube harmonics and solid state accuracy. I preferred the THX AAA 789 on my planars and Focal Elex and Clear though they again didn't sound bad on the CTH.

I liked the synergy so much, I'm gonna look for a deal on a Liquid Platinum as I really want a balanced Hybrid and I trust the Cavelli designs and Massdrop or Monoprice pricing.

I would say the THX AAA 789 is more accurate, the CTH gives up a tinge of accuracy for musicality.

Edit: I'll fix my initial post, thanks.


----------



## Roen

AndrewM888 said:


> First principles approach is there will always be some common mode ground noise currents flowing in your audio cables shield, due to low freq magnetic fields, RF from SMPS and cell phones, and from direct injection by the various products' AC/DC power supplies.
> And your audio cables all have non-zero ground impedance. So if this CM noise current flows in part of the cable that's used for signal (e.g. RCA's shield is also the signal negative wire) then it'll corrupt the signal as hum, machine noise, hiss, etc according to V=I*R where R is the RCA shield impedance.
> But if this CM current is given a preferred pathway (e.g. separate shield wire in XLR cable) then it won't corrupt the audio.  Similarly if given a lower impedance path (e.g. very short RCA, or more-copper in the RCA shield) then it'll corrupt less because the "R" term is smaller in V=I*R.
> An RCA>XLR cable, if built properly, will provide a *mostly* separate pathway for CM noise current to flow. It's a half-way house.
> ...


Any similar cable with the unbalanced side being 3.5 mm or 1/4"?


----------



## AndrewM888

SnowRunner said:


> Ok HeadFi'ers, I have a bit of a bone to pick...
> If this THX amp really is so disruptive by performing so much above its weight class, why haven't so many other brands or engineers been able to implement this 'feed-forward' circuitry out? Especially since its a 20+ year old tech, off-patent & according to Amir at you know where, there are no custom THX parts, just off the shelf standard Texas instruments components.
> As he mentions, we will likely see a slew of similar products within a year or two using similar circuit designs, which will only be great for all of us consumers. But I feel like amp engineers need to get their game faces on to answer this $350 bundle of joy.
> 
> BTW, I'm still waiting for the next drop , but will definitely get that neon paint on the volume knob indent, thanks for that nugget @torii


Hi Snowrunner,

Thanks for your patience. I hope Massdrop can stock up again soon! 

THX AAA is a new, unique version of feed-forward error correction. It overcomes shortfalls of older feed-forward approaches to achieve the ultimate in linearity and minimal crossover distortion. 

THX AAA topology is presently covered by numerous active patents in each of the major global countries. Replicating our IP requires a licensing agreement first, else it may be eligible for pursuit as patent or other infringement. 

Please don't hesitate to recommend product or company collaborations you'd like to see for AAA in future. Where should this tech be?

Thanks,
Andrew


----------



## BrotherKathos

Hello everyone. I just wanted to share another little impression about the THX 789 and its difference I've found compared to a smaller amp like the Audioengine D1. I've got the Audioengine hooked to the THX as a Dac right now since it has rca outs for that. Its getting fed via toslink straight from my pc and I'm listening with some Beyerdynamic DT 770 M Drummer's edition headphones. Its a waiting period until the SMSL M9 gets here in a few days and will be paired with the Schiit Eitr.

Switching from the internal amp on the D1 to the THX is really a big step up in sound quality. The D1 on its own is one of the smoother all in one dacs in the sub $200 category, but the sound just gets taken to another level all together with the THX in the chain. I have to give the D1 credit though as its performing phenomenally as a dedicated dac in this application. The Beyers have never sounded so good. The presentation is very spacious for closed backs and there is very little of that typical Beyer glare or brighness with these. 

The mids are a tad recessed, but the bass and treble are not that overemphasized. Its actually a happy change from the Hd6xx I've been listening to for a while now. I've got another Hd6xx on the way for this setup and will be able to compare bettre at that time, but I have to say, this THX 789 has once agin proven itself to be an amp that just works great with anything I've thrown at it. I've yet to find somthing that sounds off or bad with it in the chain. The Beyers are not fatiguing at all in this configuration. Thanks @AndrewM888 for putting out a great product!


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Hello everyone. I just wanted to share another little impression about the THX 789 and its difference I've found compared to a smaller amp like the Audioengine D1. I've got the Audioengine hooked to the THX as a Dac right now since it has rca outs for that. Its getting fed via toslink straight from my pc and I'm listening with some Beyerdynamic DT 770 M Drummer's edition headphones. Its a waiting period until the SMSL M9 gets here in a few days and will be paired with the Schiit Eitr.
> 
> Switching from the internal amp on the D1 to the THX is really a big step up in sound quality. The D1 on its own is one of the smoother all in one dacs in the sub $200 category, but the sound just gets taken to another level all together with the THX in the chain. I have to give the D1 credit though as its performing phenomenally as a dedicated dac in this application. The Beyers have never sounded so good. The presentation is very spacious for closed backs and there is very little of that typical Beyer glare or brighness with these.
> 
> The mids are a tad recessed, but the bass and treble are not that overemphasized. Its actually a happy change from the Hd6xx I've been listening to for a while now. I've got another Hd6xx on the way for this setup and will be able to compare bettre at that time, but I have to say, this THX 789 has once agin proven itself to be an amp that just works great with anything I've thrown at it. I've yet to find somthing that sounds off or bad with it in the chain. The Beyers are not fatiguing at all in this configuration. Thanks @AndrewM888 for putting out a great product!



The AudioEngine D1 was my first DAC/amp. Then I switched to the Micca Origen+ which I really liked. Especially the form factor and features. Then I got the Aune X7S and paired it with the DAC in the Micca to start. Then I had bought the Massdrop O2+SDAC which is a great little DAC/amp for SE only use. But I still had the X7S and wanted to try balanced headphone out so I started using it as my daily paired with the Grace SDAC and sold the O2+SDAC. Now I have the XLR cable for my HD6XX on the way to go balanced. Once the THX 789 drops again perhaps I'll jump on it this time. Hopefully there won't be any issues with gain knob misalignment and whatnot.


----------



## SnowRunner (Jan 10, 2019)

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi Snowrunner,
> 
> Thanks for your patience. I hope Massdrop can stock up again soon!
> 
> ...





Hi @AndrewM888 ,

Thanks for your response, thats great to hear that it is under active patents and protected.
Just throwing out some thoughts, I wouldn't mind seeing a '_plus_' version for a modest increase in price, where you improve the 789 platform where you can, either through Massdrop or otherwise, considering things like:
-An improved integrated power supply?
-More precise/machined switches with tighter QC?
-A ultra high power version for Planar Magnetic HP's, (eg. the Emotiva A-100 got a cult following for this)?
-Complementary models: eg. ones Integrated DAC's, or a Tube varient (if thats possible with this topology)?

Basically shooting for better sound where you can find it etc. The lifecycle for an amp (in my case) is usually several years, so having an extremely well made and sounding unit is very desirable even if the initial cost outlay is higher.

I would imagine less pretentious audiophile brands would be ideal to collab with, Massdrop, JDS Labs, Chinese brands (Fiio, Aune?) or tech brands trying to improve their audio (like how LG did with their V-series phones), eg. Sonos, Amazon etc. or targeting concert/public space PA systems where massive power is needed with minimal distortion. I'm sure this rabbit hole goes very deep, just would need to find a markets where this level of clarity can be exploited, or at least marketed.


----------



## alpovs

AndrewM888 said:


> THX AAA is a new, unique version of feed-forward error correction. It overcomes shortfalls of older feed-forward approaches to achieve the ultimate in linearity and minimal crossover distortion.
> 
> THX AAA topology is presently covered by numerous active patents in each of the major global countries. Replicating our IP requires a licensing agreement first, else it may be eligible for pursuit as patent or other infringement.


Patents are public, so I hope it's OK if I ask to mention the patents you are referring to. 

Accordingly to Google, THX has 26 patents and 4 of which are pending. One of the pending patents is "Amplifier circuit with reduced feedforward current". But it's the only one that seems to be relevant. The patent for "High-efficiency feedforward-error-correction amplifier" was filed in 1983 by a different entity and has expired. So, it seems anybody can make amplifiers with feed-forward error correction without infringing the patent.


----------



## AndrewM888

alpovs said:


> Patents are public, so I hope it's OK if I ask to mention the patents you are referring to.
> 
> Accordingly to Google, THX has 26 patents and 4 of which are pending. One of the pending patents is "Amplifier circuit with reduced feedforward current". But it's the only one that seems to be relevant. The patent for "High-efficiency feedforward-error-correction amplifier" was filed in 1983 by a different entity and has expired. So, it seems anybody can make amplifiers with feed-forward error correction without infringing the patent.


That's an incorrect assertion of the situation and how utility patents work. Patent titles don't dictate coverage. The title is mostly irrelevant. The claims are what matter. I.e  how the cat is skinned vs prior art.

THX AAA patents are in effect and not expired.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> The AudioEngine D1 was my first DAC/amp. Then I switched to the Micca Origen+ which I really liked. Especially the form factor and features. Then I got the Aune X7S and paired it with the DAC in the Micca to start. Then I had bought the Massdrop O2+SDAC which is a great little DAC/amp for SE only use. But I still had the X7S and wanted to try balanced headphone out so I started using it as my daily paired with the Grace SDAC and sold the O2+SDAC. Now I have the XLR cable for my HD6XX on the way to go balanced. Once the THX 789 drops again perhaps I'll jump on it this time. Hopefully there won't be any issues with gain knob misalignment and whatnot.



I'm a function over form kind of person, so I would not care as much as others is knobs were not lined up perfectly, even though mine are. As long as I can distinguish between gain and the unit puts out sound like no other in its class I'm happy. The sdac should work great with the THX, and personally I'd probably prefer it over the balanced version since i fear balanced dacs would give the signal too much power and cause me to be unable to easily get the correct volume for my personal taste even on lowest gain. 

I use the balanced output on my lcd2c and with a SE dac I still many times only get to 9:00 on lowest gain as my desired volume. With more input voltage I'm not sure i would be able to get my desired volume without running into low volume channel imbalance problems. Anyone is welcome to chime in if I'm off base here regarding my assumptions.


----------



## alpovs

AndrewM888 said:


> That's an incorrect assertion of the situation and how utility patents work. Patent titles don't dictate coverage. The title is mostly irrelevant. The claims are what matter. I.e  how the cat is skinned vs prior art.
> 
> THX AAA patents are in effect and not expired.


I never said they expired but only one of them is remotely relevant to this amp. And you didn't add any new information. Oftentimes the product packaging or manual says "this product is covered by such and such patents". I tried to find out what patents are in this case but it seems to be a secret, while patents are public. 

The 1983 expired patent "High-efficiency feedforward-error-correction amplifier" was filed by Peter Garde of NewSouth Innovations Pty Ltd, not THX.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I'm a function over form kind of person, so I would not care as much as others is knobs were not lined up perfectly, even though mine are. As long as I can distinguish between gain and the unit puts out sound like no other in its class I'm happy. The sdac should work great with the THX, and personally I'd probably prefer it over the balanced version since i fear balanced dacs would give the signal too much power and cause me to be unable to easily get the correct volume for my personal taste even on lowest gain.
> 
> I use the balanced output on my lcd2c and with a SE dac I still many times only get to 9:00 on lowest gain as my desired volume. With more input voltage I'm not sure i would be able to get my desired volume without running into low volume channel imbalance problems. Anyone is welcome to chime in if I'm off base here regarding my assumptions.



Is there a way to compare the X7S and THX 789 side by side? Like can I just split the RCA out from my SDAC into both amps and then just swap my headphones between them?


----------



## ayang02

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi Snowrunner,
> 
> Thanks for your patience. I hope Massdrop can stock up again soon!
> 
> ...



I've been wondering whether this tech can be used in portable, battery-powered DAC/AMP units. Something like a Chord Hugo. If that's possible then that'll be so awesome!


----------



## AndrewM888

ayang02 said:


> I've been wondering whether this tech can be used in portable, battery-powered DAC/AMP units. Something like a Chord Hugo. If that's possible then that'll be so awesome!


Check out the Monoprice Monolith portable with THX AAA-78.


----------



## ayang02

AndrewM888 said:


> Check out the Monoprice Monolith portable with THX AAA-78.



Thanks for the info, I didn't know this exists. I just quickly glanced over the specs of this unit and it looks like the output for this unit is kind of low. Well, at least this is a portable unit and I hope we'll see more in the future.


----------



## Fatdoi

I can so see MD does a linear power supply for the 789 and Cavalli lines... I'm sure a lot of owners will want a proper psu than using bricks


----------



## ayang02

Just received my amp after 3 long weeks of waiting!


Lovely outer box design

 
The gain switch looks alright to me.

 
Love the clean sound out of this amp! I need to find a good DAC to pair with it FOR SURE.


----------



## eeagle

MacMan31 said:


> Is there a way to compare the X7S and THX 789 side by side? Like can I just split the RCA out from my SDAC into both amps and then just swap my headphones between them?



Sure, that is what the pass through set of RCA jacks on the 789 is for.  Many amps have pass through connectors so a splitter is not required to allow a single source to drive multiple amps.  I do this all the time to compare amps and HPs.


----------



## MacMan31

ayang02 said:


> Just received my amp after 3 long weeks of waiting!
> 
> Lovely outer box design
> 
> ...



Thank you for the pictures. What kind of tactile feel do you get when using the buttons and knobs? Do they feel solid?


----------



## MacMan31

eeagle said:


> Sure, that is what the pass through set of RCA jacks on the 789 is for.  Many amps have pass through connectors so a splitter is not required to allow a single source to drive multiple amps.  I do this all the time to compare amps and HPs.



Oh okay cool. Thank you.


----------



## ayang02

MacMan31 said:


> Thank you for the pictures. What kind of tactile feel do you get when using the buttons and knobs? Do they feel solid?



I think the buttons and knobs are solidly built. I don't see any wobbliness in my unit. The tactile feel for the press buttons and knobs are different though. For example, the power button is a stateless kind but the input button is a press/depress type. The volume knob is solid, no wobbliness and close to no resistance when turned from min to max. The gain switch has a satisfying soft-click feedback when turned, I can see people playing with this thing when the unit is powered off lol.

For what it's worth my unit's serial number is a few numbers past #300, I don't know how I got this number since there are supposedly over 1600 units sold already.


----------



## MacMan31

ayang02 said:


> I think the buttons and knobs are solidly built. I don't see any wobbliness in my unit. The tactile feel for the press buttons and knobs are different though. For example, the power button is a stateless kind but the input button is a press/depress type. The volume knob is solid, no wobbliness and close to no resistance when turned from min to max. The gain switch has a satisfying soft-click feedback when turned, I can see people playing with this thing when the unit is powered off lol.
> 
> For what it's worth my unit's serial number is a few numbers past #300, I don't know how I got this number since there are supposedly over 1600 units sold already.



Thank you for that info. Perhaps you got a low serial number because they’re not shipping them out in numerical order. That’s just my guess. My Periapt XLR cable arrived today so I’ll get to play with that this weekend.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2019)

There is so much hype with these.  My initial impression was that the amp sounded bright like a strong solid-state sound in a bad way.

When I listened to my HD6XX I noticed how brighter it sounded, and it should not.  At least how this amp presents it.  No wonder people prefer LCD2C out of this amp.  Also, there was slight bass lag with HD6XX out of these, just the way it sounded, reminded me of my lofi amps from back in the days including O2.  So, I got the impression of HD6XX responding slower than my main go to amp.

I was interested in the higher power and very low THD and realized that low THD doesn't mean squat when it comes to sound quality.  That parameter doesn't directly translate to transparency.  I have much better performing amps and I will state, there should be no unrealistic expectations that this amp can outperform upper tier amps.  It performs more or less in it's price range.  Also, the power didn't seem as strong as spec'd when trying out the HE6 that it's sounded off out of it, compared to real power.

It's not just a matter of tonality with these, I know there are better performing amps, but they are in another pricing zone, so it would not be a fair comparison.

I guess I had much greater expectations than warranted, and running into hype twice with CTH and this, I will never join another Massdrop for amps because so much hype.

Did Massdrop send a review unit to Z-reviews for hyping this up?  I really can't take his reviews seriously anymore.

So, just a warning of don't get sucked into marketing stuff with whatever tech they like to call their stuff, use common sense.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 12, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> There is so much hype with these.  My initial impression was that the amp sounded bright like a strong solid-state sound in a bad way.
> 
> When I listened to my HD6XX I noticed how brighter it sounded, and it should not.  At least how this amp presents it.  No wonder people prefer LCD2C out of this amp.  Also, there was slight bass lag with HD6XX out of these, just the way it sounded, reminded me of my lofi amps from back in the days including O2.  So, I got the impression of HD6XX responding slower than my main go to amp.
> 
> ...


It's better to let it out, mate LOL.

Anyways, don't expect this amp to beat great higher-end amps. But I think it outperforms its price range. And it bests some under-performing higher-end amps.

Is this hyped? Sure. But it costs $350. I can forgive its shortcomings easier.

My advice for those who have tried TOTL type of amps, especially tube amps, stay out of this price range.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> It's better to let it out, mate LOL.
> 
> Anyways, don't expect this amp to beat great higher-end amps. But I think it outperforms its price range. And it bests some under-performing higher-end amps.
> 
> ...


I saw somebody running Yggdrasil as DAC to these.  Why?!  What is the point of having the Yggdrasil.  That just seemed weird to me.


----------



## omniweltall

SilverEars said:


> I saw somebody running Yggdrasil as DAC to these.  Why?!  What is the point of having the Yggdrasil.  That just seemed weird to me.


Agreed. This would be the weak chain to the Yggy. 

But I also saw more hideous mistakes that costs 5-10x the THX789 in their chains.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> Agreed. This would be the weak chain to the Yggy.
> 
> But I also saw more hideous mistakes that costs 5-10x the THX789 in their chains.


I saw a dude running a Utopia out of a Mojo. Lol.  Oh yeah, and talking about how much better the $$ cables makes such a difference in the chain.  So many weirds here.


----------



## omniweltall

SilverEars said:


> I saw a dude running a Utopia out of a Mojo. Lol.


LOL. I bet he swears the Mojo is the super uber best DAC that will kill everything on earth.................................cause Mr. Rob Watts said so.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Jan 12, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> There is so much hype with these.  My initial impression was that the amp sounded bright like a strong solid-state sound in a bad way.
> 
> When I listened to my HD6XX I noticed how brighter it sounded, and it should not.  At least how this amp presents it.  No wonder people prefer LCD2C out of this amp.  Also, there was slight bass lag with HD6XX out of these, just the way it sounded, reminded me of my lofi amps from back in the days including O2.  So, I got the impression of HD6XX responding slower than my main go to amp.
> 
> ...



Yes this amp is on the brighter side and I agree with the Senn statement ..it doesn't pair well just like they don't pair well with some other gear..planar magnetic on the other hand ... ,yes my pre-fazor LCD-2 sounds dope
I wasn't expecting much when I purchased one since I already have H20 and very happy with it but was looking for clean ,natural and powerful amp to push my iFi IESL along with H20 ,this was no-brainer  in comparison this amp is a different beast ,the efficiency is out of this world,both amp's have similar power output specs but when I connected this amp to IESL it was match made in heaven ,it also pairs well with thicker sounding gear like my R2R11
Sound wise in comparison to H20 (third party upgraded opamps)..slightly more analytical,90% tonality..not bad for $350 if you ask me 
EDIT; might want to try optical toslink


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Jan 12, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> There is so much hype with these.  My initial impression was that the amp sounded bright like a strong solid-state sound in a bad way.
> 
> When I listened to my HD6XX I noticed how brighter it sounded, and it should not.  At least how this amp presents it.  No wonder people prefer LCD2C out of this amp.  Also, there was slight bass lag with HD6XX out of these, just the way it sounded, reminded me of my lofi amps from back in the days including O2.  So, I got the impression of HD6XX responding slower than my main go to amp.
> 
> ...




You have the 6xx but did not enjoy the cth? What Amps do you have that you prefer? I've been dead set on getting the thx but I'm trying to sit on an Amp for a few years and want to be as satisfied as possible.

I've got an Afo on the way. Think those planars will play well with the thx? I only have cth right now


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2019)

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> You have the 6xx but did not enjoy the cth? What Amps do you have that you prefer? I've been dead set on getting the thx but I'm trying to sit on an Amp for a few years and want to be as satisfied as possible.
> 
> I've got an Afo on the way. Think those planars will play well with the thx? I only have cth right now


The thing is, I didn't have the HD6XX back when I had the CTH. When I had the CTH, I compared it with a much higher-end amp (in terms of price), and I had no need for CTH around for it, although it probably performs at it's price-point.  I think I'd prefer it more than the THX AAA 789 due to THX sounding a bit more analytical with sharper treble, but don't quite me on this because I didn't do a direct comparison.

I prefer a more natural presentation in terms of DAC to Amp.  For example, I got rid of the RME ADI DAC-2 because it sounded like a typical chip DAC having that digital-ness to the sound.  I like stuff that sounds more analog and realistic (but you can still hear the subtle nuances in the most natural way).  In terms of headphones, I like headphones with a bit of mids body without sounding warm if that makes sense (mids are there out of necessity and definition, not for engulfing with warmth).  It seems important to have good mids presence to have realistic tonality.

I could see THX not being a good match for something like HD800/S because it's tonal response.  HD800/S are very DAC/Amp dependent.  It can sound incredibly incisive with the wrong setup, and there will be too many wrong setups for it.  Sadly, the only setups for HD800/S sounded most alluring was out of a few ridiculously expensive setups.


----------



## BrotherKathos

SilverEars said:


> The thing is, I didn't have the HD6XX back when I had the CTH. When I had the CTH, I compared it with a much higher-end amp (in terms of price), and I had no need for CTH around for it, although it probably performs at it's price-point.  I think I'd prefer it more than the THX AAA 789 due to THX sounding a bit more analytical with sharper treble, but don't quite me on this because I didn't do a direct comparison.
> 
> I prefer a more natural presentation in terms of DAC to Amp.  For example, I got rid of the RME ADI DAC-2 because it sounded like a typical chip DAC having that digital-ness to the sound.  I like stuff that sounds more analog and realistic (but you can still hear the subtle nuances in the most natural way).  In terms of headphones, I like headphones with a bit of mids body without sounding warm if that makes sense.  It seems important to have good mids presence to have realistic tonality.
> 
> I could see THX not being a good match for something like HD800/S because it's tonal response.  HD800/S are very DAC/Amp dependent.  It can sound incredibly incisive with the wrong setup, and there will be too many wrong setups for it.  Sadly, the only setups for HD800/S sounded most alluring was out of ridiculously expensive setups.



So what is your current setup that best fits your preference, so we have an idea of how much weight to give your opinion?


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> So what is your current setup that best fits your preference, so we have an idea of how much weight to give your opinion?


You don't have to give any weight if you don't think my opinion really matters, I'm just throwing it out there for those looking for information that provides some relative basis.


----------



## BrotherKathos

SilverEars said:


> You don't have to give any weight if you don't think my opinion really matters, I'm just throwing it out there for those looking for information besides this is all great and dandy posts.


Maybe you did not understand before so I will try again. What is your current gear that fits your musical preference over the thx and hd6xx, and also include dac used with thx and hd6xx. Without this info it’s really hard to give any importance to your opinion, because for all we know you are comparing the thx to a setup that costs $10,000. Just give us a reference please.


----------



## alpovs

SilverEars said:


> You don't have to give any weight if you don't think my opinion really matters, I'm just throwing it out there for those looking for information that provides some relative basis.


Why state your opinion if you don't care? In your opinion you dismissed several reviews. And you kind of explained why. Please explain why we shouldn't dismiss your opinion.


----------



## alpovs

SilverEars said:


> I saw somebody running Yggdrasil as DAC to these.  Why?!  What is the point of having the Yggdrasil.  That just seemed weird to me.


What do you recommend for the Yggdrasil?


----------



## MacMan31

Okay so while I wait for the THX 789 to drop again I am playing with my new XLR "balanced" headphone cable for my HD6XX. Using the XLR to 1/4" adapter I am going back and forth between the balanced and SE headphone out on my Aune X7S. To be honest I'm not hearing any significant improvement using balanced over SE. The only real difference is that with balanced I don't have to turn the volume up as high as with the SE headphone out. Also I notice that if the XLR cable rubs against something or if the left and right cables rub against each other I can hear the noise in my headphones and fairly loud as well. Any way to alleviate that?


----------



## Yviena

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so while I wait for the THX 789 to drop again I am playing with my new XLR "balanced" headphone cable for my HD6XX. Using the XLR to 1/4" adapter I am going back and forth between the balanced and SE headphone out on my Aune X7S. To be honest I'm not hearing any significant improvement using balanced over SE. The only real difference is that with balanced I don't have to turn the volume up as high as with the SE headphone out. Also I notice that if the XLR cable rubs against something or if the left and right cables rub against each other I can hear the noise in my headphones and fairly loud as well. Any way to alleviate that?



It's probably microphonics from the cable transferring to the HP driver.


----------



## MacMan31

Yviena said:


> It's probably microphonics from the cable transferring to the HP driver.



No way to stop it is there? Like if I rub my fingers on the cable I hear the noise in my headphones. I really only hear it when there is no music playing and only more so when I rub the slimmer cables which lead into the ear cups.


----------



## Yviena

MacMan31 said:


> No way to stop it is there? Like if I rub my fingers on the cable I hear the noise in my headphones. I really only hear it when there is no music playing and only more so when I rub the slimmer cables which lead into the ear cups.


Ehh I hear some microphonics with my own hd800 cable too if I rub the cables after the splitter, but it's not really a problem as long their not constantly rubbing against something


----------



## MacMan31

Yviena said:


> Ehh I hear some microphonics with my own hd800 cable too if I rub the cables after the splitter, but it's not really a problem as long their not constantly rubbing against something



Yeah perhaps not. In any event the audible difference in sound quality or signature is not big between balanced and SE. With balanced the "veil" of the HD6XX does seem to fade away a bit and the sound seems more open. But it's not a vast improvement over SE. At least not to me.


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> So what is your current setup that best fits your preference, so we have an idea of how much weight to give your opinion?


@SilverEars Pse correct me if Im wrong, buddy.

Silverears has a setup that is beyond the THX 789's playing field. He has also tried great setups. I think he has high expectation. 

For me, the THX is great. On par with many gears above its price point. Synergy comes to play. 

But i like it with my HD800 and HD600. Granted, I use the Loki and both my800/600 are slightly modded.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> @SilverEars Pse correct me if Im wrong, buddy.
> 
> Silverears has a setup that is beyond the THX 789's playing field. He has also tried great setups. I think he has high expectation.
> 
> ...



I had a feeling that was the case, especially since he never chimed back in. Of course the THX will disappoint when compared against rigs with perfect synergy and price tags in the tens of thousands. I would still like to know the exact chain he finds to be so much superior as something to check out myself in the future. I'm just getting my feet wet at the moment and am starting to think about diving deeper so it would be nice if someone like @SilverEars would share his gear preference and just what he is comparing this $350 amp to that leaves him so disappointed.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 13, 2019)

I think people should also manage their expectation. In theory, a properly designed $350 gear will not outperform a properly designed $1350 gear. Just like a portable gear should not be able to outperform a proper desktop gear. It's just that this hobby has a lot of under-performing gears (to their prices, I mean), backed by hypes and advertisement disguised as reviews. That is why the THX 789 can match/outperform those gears.

Moreover, most people just don't have the hearing acumen to detect subtle differences in expensive gears. This is audio. Hype is real. Diminishing return is very real. For most people, amps like the Lyr 3 or the THX 789 are more than enough in my opinion. Problem is audio is kinda like religion. Most people are not objective at all. They are very biased, usually to the gears they own. Or to a brand they adore. I have seen that this can be utterly ridiculous.

To summarize, the THX 789 is a properly-designed $350 amp, and will be very very competitive in its price point. Highly recommended.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> I think people should also manage their expectation. In theory, a properly designed $350 gear will not outperform a properly designed $1350 gear. Just like a portable gear should not be able to outperform a proper desktop gear. It's just that this hobby has a lot of under-performing gears (to their prices, I mean), backed by hypes and advertisement disguised as reviews. That is why the THX 789 can outperform those gears.
> 
> Moreover, most people just don't have the hearing acumen to detect subtle differences in expensive gears. This is audio. Hype is real. Diminishing return is very real. For most people, amps like the Lyr 3 or the THX 789 are more than enough in my opinion. Problem is audio is kinda like religion. Most people are not objective at all. They are very biased, usually to the gears they own. Or to a brand they adore. I have seen that this can be utterly ridiculous.
> 
> To summarize, the THX 789 is a properly-designed $350 amp, and will be very very competitive in its price point. Highly recommended.



I could not agree more with this whole statement. Now I'm looking for some really good gear with perfect synergy. Budget is 5-8k so I'm trying to find what is going to get me the best for my $$$$ and would like to hear about chains that utterly destroy something like the THX 789, Schiit mimby or Topping D50 with eitr and an Audeze LCD2C. That to my taste is a very good entry level system, but I'd like to move up. Have been thinking of Getting Something from either Headamp or Vioelectric for amp, and Maybe Metrum Pavane level 3 or somthing like it for dac. Headphones I'm not really sure about since I'm treble sensitive and I've heard the Lcd-4 is kinda brutal as well as the Utopia being likely not my cup o tea.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Jan 12, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so while I wait for the THX 789 to drop again I am playing with my new XLR "balanced" headphone cable for my HD6XX. Using the XLR to 1/4" adapter I am going back and forth between the balanced and SE headphone out on my Aune X7S. To be honest I'm not hearing any significant improvement using balanced over SE. The only real difference is that with balanced I don't have to turn the volume up as high as with the SE headphone out. Also I notice that if the XLR cable rubs against something or if the left and right cables rub against each other I can hear the noise in my headphones and fairly loud as well. Any way to alleviate that?



Is that the unbalaned Grace Sdac? No wonder you don't here any discernable difference, though I found a new cable improved my Hd600 sound quality and your amp is probably only more efficient out of XLR, other than that it shouldn't make much difference. You can correct me on the Dac if I'm wrong, but to my understanding it's rare than amps sound quite different out each port like I've heard the LCX does.

Far as the cable microphonics go, the periapt cable I got off massdrop for my hd600 doesn't have any, though it's kinda hefty. Get another cable?


----------



## BrotherKathos

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Is that the unbalaned Grace Sdac? No wonder you don't here any discernable difference, though I found a new cable improved my Hd600 sound quality and your amp is probably only more efficient out of XLR, other than that it shouldn't make much difference. You can correct me on the Dac if I'm wrong, but to my understanding it's rare than amps sound quite different out each port like I've heard the LCX does.
> 
> Far as the cable microphonics go, the periapt cable I got off massdrop for my hd600 doesn't have any, though it's kinda hefty. Get another cable?



It might not make any audible difference,  ut the Aune x7s is actually less clean when running balanced vs se. That is at least what measurements indicate. I was close to getting one on a drop, but canceled when i found this out. Probably does not make any difference, but ocd worries kicked in.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 13, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> I could not agree more with this whole statement. Now I'm looking for some really good gear with perfect synergy. Budget is 5-8k so I'm trying to find what is going to get me the best for my $$$$ and would like to hear about chains that utterly destroy something like the THX 789, Schiit mimby or Topping D50 with eitr and an Audeze LCD2C. That to my taste is a very good entry level system, but I'd like to move up. Have been thinking of Getting Something from either Headamp or Vioelectric for amp, and Maybe Metrum Pavane level 3 or somthing like it for dac. Headphones I'm not really sure about since I'm treble sensitive and I've heard the Lcd-4 is kinda brutal as well as the Utopia being likely not my cup o tea.


Brother, this is exactly against what I've just said haha. Do you really want to spend that much? Most people here are for the gears. I'm here for the music. I keep exploring new songs. Of course, once in a while, I am also curious about gears.

My audio journey has been opposite mainstream. I started with TOTL cans, and slowly going back to the basic. Because really, you can get, like, 90% of the experience from only 10% the price. I'm mostly using HD600 these days.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> Brother, this is exactly against what I've just said haha. Do you really want to spend that much? Most people here are for the gears. I'm here for the music. I spend most on music. I keep exploring new songs. Of course, once in a while, I am also curious about gears.
> 
> My audio journey has been opposite mainstream. I started with TOTL cans, and slowly going back to the basic. Because really, you can get, like, 90% of the experience from only 10% the price. I'm mostly using HD600 these days.



Hmm, okay then. So no matter what I get in that price range I can only expect to get a 10% improvement? If that is the case then what kind of setup is Silver ears listening too to be so disappointed in the THX 789? I'm okay with spending good money on gear if its truly performing with respect to its price, but if its only going to be a marginal increase I'd rather stick with what i've got. That's why I kept trying to get an answer with no luck out of @SilverEars.


----------



## ayang02

I thought the THX 789 is advertised as being relatively colorless. Do people find it bright because they have bright sounding DACs or does the 789 make warm DACs sound bright? I would be really happy if the 789 is as close to colorless as possible. That way, you just need to worry about the signature of the DAC.

I'm a portable guy so all I have for DACs are Sony PHA-3, Chord Mojo, and Centrance BlueDAC. So far I've only tried the PHA-3 and Mojo with the 789 and I have to say I like the PHA-3 pairing better. The Mojo pairing, as someone else in this thread also suggested, has a pretty anemic bass and I agree with that.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ayang02 said:


> I thought the THX 789 is advertised as being relatively colorless. Do people find it bright because they have bright sounding DACs or does the 789 make warm DACs sound bright? I would be really happy if the 789 is as close to colorless as possible. That way, you just need to worry about the signature of the DAC.
> 
> I'm a portable guy so all I have for DACs are Sony PHA-3, Chord Mojo, and Centrance BlueDAC. So far I've only tried the PHA-3 and Mojo with the 789 and I have to say I like the PHA-3 pairing better. The Mojo pairing, as someone else in this thread also suggested, has a pretty anemic bass and I agree with that.



I'm not sure, but all i can say is that with the THX 789 in the chain I hear the biggest difference between each of my dacs when I switch between them. All my other amps don't seem to sound much different depending on what dac is in the chain.


----------



## ayang02

BrotherKathos said:


> I'm not sure, but all i can say is that with the THX 789 in the chain I hear the biggest difference between each of my dacs when I switch between them. All my other amps don't seem to sound much different depending on what dac is in the chain.



If you could hear the difference between different DACs then I would say the THX 789 is probably pretty darn colorless.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ayang02 said:


> If you could hear the difference between different DACs then I would say the THX 789 is probably pretty darn colorless.



I've been very happy with it so far, and have used it with a decent range of entry level dacs and headphones. I'm getting a SMSL M9 tomorrow to test with the THX and am eager to see how I like it. Dual akm 4490s and a nice spdif interface as well so the dac is at least promising on components alone. Also $140 is not a bad price at all considering the Topping D50 has similar level of components, sounds great at its price point and cost me $110 more.


----------



## Kwyjibo

Anyone have a chance to compare the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X to the THX 789?  So far I like the Cavalli, but I don't get a lot of power out of it when using the SE port.


----------



## maxxevv

These are completely measurements based reviews. So may not be exactly relevant if you prefer some "colour" in your output to suite your tastes.  But they give a very good objective comparison between the 2.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x.4947/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> Hmm, okay then. So no matter what I get in that price range I can only expect to get a 10% improvement? If that is the case then what kind of setup is Silver ears listening too to be so disappointed in the THX 789? I'm okay with spending good money on gear if its truly performing with respect to its price, but if its only going to be a marginal increase I'd rather stick with what i've got. That's why I kept trying to get an answer with no luck out of @SilverEars.


Everyone has different priorities and hearing acumen. Silverears has his own priorities and preferences. You know what I think? Even if you buy amps 20x the price the THX 789, you might not be able to tell that much difference at all. That's the scary thing about this hobby. But I'm way over my head here. I don't know enough about you. Some people care about those small differences. And some people actually trained their ears for years and years. So, for the average Joe, even if your gears are capable of more resolution, your ears might not. What's the point?

And remember that there are different qualities and traits about SQ. It is not a distinct better or worse between 2 gears. the V281 might be better in...say...power...but it may have weaker things too compared to the THX 789. How do we tell whether it is OVERALL better or worse? If the strengths of a gear fits your needs and preferences more, over the weaknesses.

For example, my case, I have my favorite tube amp. But they serve different purpose, and both get enough listening time from me. Remember that synergy comes to play. But my ex-SS amps are too similar to the THX 789, so I got rid of them.

I'd say the THX 789 is overall quite a balanced amp in most traits. It has good power (let's not discuss HE-6, as that phone has an abnormal power requirement). It has good dynamics. It has good clarity and detail. It has good extension both ways.


----------



## omniweltall

Kwyjibo said:


> Anyone have a chance to compare the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X to the THX 789?  So far I like the Cavalli, but I don't get a lot of power out of it when using the SE port.


The LC-X is warmer and has less details. Less power too. The THX 789 makes it redundant, in my opinion.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

ayang02 said:


> I thought the THX 789 is advertised as being relatively colorless. Do people find it bright because they have bright sounding DACs or does the 789 make warm DACs sound bright? I would be really happy if the 789 is as close to colorless as possible. That way, you just need to worry about the signature of the DAC.
> 
> I'm a portable guy so all I have for DACs are Sony PHA-3, Chord Mojo, and Centrance BlueDAC. So far I've only tried the PHA-3 and Mojo with the 789 and I have to say I like the PHA-3 pairing better. The Mojo pairing, as someone else in this thread also suggested, has a pretty anemic bass and I agree with that.


I don't really like the word "colorless". And I don't think that it is bright. For me, I felt that the THX 789 has slightly forward upper mid. Treble is actually quite smooth and extended, imo. But I may be biased because I'm used to my previous amps, as reference.

Also remember that people have different ear designs too. Perhaps, your hearing is more sensitive in certain frequency more than others. So, different factors can come into play. To be honest, I don't understand why silverears say it is bright. But I believe that he heard what he heard.


----------



## Kwyjibo

maxxevv said:


> These are completely measurements based reviews. So may not be exactly relevant if you prefer some "colour" in your output to suite your tastes.  But they give a very good objective comparison between the 2.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x.4947/
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/


Hmm, looks like THX has a lot more power than the Cavalli.  Interesting how the THX SE gets relatively close to the clean power level of the Balanced Cavalli.  Whelp, looks like I'll be buying a THX the next time it pops up on Mass drop.


----------



## Zachik

omniweltall said:


> The LC-X is warmer and has less details. Less power too. The THX 789 makes it redundant, in my opinion.


I agree that LCX is warmer. But I personally like the LCX better. THX 789 definitely does NOT make the LCX redundant!


----------



## omniweltall

Zachik said:


> I agree that LCX is warmer. But I personally like the LCX better. THX 789 definitely does NOT make the LCX redundant!


To each his own


----------



## Zachik

omniweltall said:


> To each his own


100% agree


----------



## ayang02

omniweltall said:


> I don't really like the word "colorless". And I don't think that it is bright. For me, I felt that the THX 789 has slightly forward upper mid. Treble is actually quite smooth and extended, imo. But I may be biased because I'm used to my previous amps, as reference.



Yeah I know, I'm just saying it's advertised as colorless. Can't really reach that conclusion without comparing multiple  combinations of Amps and DACs, which I don't have.


----------



## omniweltall

Zachik said:


> 100% agree


Btw, the Cavalli that most interests me is the Liquid Platinum. Have you heard it?


----------



## Fatdoi

My mentor taught me never argue from extremes... If someone expects a $350 amp to drive HE6 like a boss even I'd be skeptical.. But of course one has own opinion so if his expectation of a $350 amp to outperform those cost many times more... Then the ground for argument becomes much thinner imo...


----------



## ayobreezie

When the elitist chimes in, yet doesn't provide any helpful information to the thread besides "I have the best amps."  Lol.  Okay?


----------



## omniweltall

Anyone's free to share his impression, right?


----------



## ReAlien

omniweltall said:


> Anyone's free to share his impression, right?



Yeah, but without a point of reference, it's just a noise, IMHO.


----------



## MacMan31

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Is that the unbalaned Grace Sdac? No wonder you don't here any discernable difference, though I found a new cable improved my Hd600 sound quality and your amp is probably only more efficient out of XLR, other than that it shouldn't make much difference. You can correct me on the Dac if I'm wrong, but to my understanding it's rare than amps sound quite different out each port like I've heard the LCX does.
> 
> Far as the cable microphonics go, the periapt cable I got off massdrop for my hd600 doesn't have any, though it's kinda hefty. Get another cable?



Yes it is the unbalance Grace SDAC. The more I swap back and forth the more I do notice a difference. Balance definitely seems more open and more forward. Especially in vocals. SE seems more suppressed in comparison. Not sure which I like better. I didn't know Massdrop sold the Periapt cable though it likely wouldn't make a difference. Yes it does seem to add some heft to my headphones so I feel a bit more pressure on the top of my head as the added weight pulls the headphones down. What other places sells the balance XLR cable?


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> It might not make any audible difference,  ut the Aune x7s is actually less clean when running balanced vs se. That is at least what measurements indicate. I was close to getting one on a drop, but canceled when i found this out. Probably does not make any difference, but ocd worries kicked in.



Not sure if it's "less clean" though I don't know how I would be able to notice. But with balanced the sound seems more open and things like vocals being more forward. The Sennheiser "veil" seems to be gone or at least diminished.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

MacMan31 said:


> Yes it is the unbalance Grace SDAC. The more I swap back and forth the more I do notice a difference. Balance definitely seems more open and more forward. Especially in vocals. SE seems more suppressed in comparison. Not sure which I like better. I didn't know Massdrop sold the Periapt cable though it likely wouldn't make a difference. Yes it does seem to add some heft to my headphones so I feel a bit more pressure on the top of my head as the added weight pulls the headphones down. What other places sells the balance XLR cable?




I'm glad that you are able to discern a difference. It's a bummer when the numbers don't translate to better real world performance. I'm not too certain about other XLR cables. The Massdrop cable deal was limited and came in early December, I simply joined because of the great savings. Fanmusic cables (hd6xx series) frequent Massdrop about once a month (they just had one) ,but the periapt drop was great because they had support for several cable types like hd700 and hd800 (maybe iems too..).


----------



## organ_donor

Anyone has this compared with ZDT Jr. ? I have a HD800 and considering 789 because I prefer speedier transient. I have a ZDT Jr not sure if 789 is a step up from it.


----------



## gtbrown50

I run my Yggy into my THX! Even more shocking is I LOVE THE WAY IT SOUNDS!! The Yggy is a very good DAC, the THX is a very good amp. 

Done.


----------



## MacMan31

gtbrown50 said:


> I run my Yggy into my THX! Even more shocking is I LOVE THE WAY IT SOUNDS!! The Yggy is a very good DAC, the THX is a very good amp.
> 
> Done.



What is a Yggy??


----------



## omniweltall

MacMan31 said:


> What is a Yggy??


It is something that tastes REAL good.


----------



## ReAlien

MacMan31 said:


> What is a Yggy??



Schiit Yggdrasil, а VERY expensive DAC.


----------



## MacMan31

ReAlien said:


> Schiit Yggdrasil, а VERY expensive DAC.



Just looked it up. Damn that's expensive. I could never afford that. Is it really that much better than a DAC costing under $200??


----------



## omniweltall

MacMan31 said:


> Just looked it up. Damn that's expensive. I could never afford that. Is it really that much better than a DAC costing under $200??


It's audio. Nothing is really THAT much better.


----------



## MacMan31

omniweltall said:


> It's audio. Nothing is really THAT much better.



Well my setup does well enough for me even if I am still considering the THX 789. If that amp is as great as people say than it likely would be "end game" for me. Perhaps upgrade the DAC at some point but that may not be necessary.


----------



## omniweltall

MacMan31 said:


> If that amp is as great as people say than it likely would be "end game" for me


Which amp?


----------



## MacMan31

omniweltall said:


> Which amp?



I have the Aune X7S paired with the Massdrop Grace SDAC running off my Macbook Pro. I'm using the balance XLR cable for my HD6XX.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Not sure if it's "less clean" though I don't know how I would be able to notice. But with balanced the sound seems more open and things like vocals being more forward. The Sennheiser "veil" seems to be gone or at least diminished.



I doubt its audible. Its just less clean in balanced according to distortion measurements, but both measurements (SE and Balanced) are already beyond the level of human hearing as far as I understand it.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I doubt its audible. Its just less clean in balanced according to distortion measurements, but both measurements (SE and Balanced) are already beyond the level of human hearing as far as I understand it.



Yeah makes sense. I've never heard any "noise" in any headphones I've used with anything I've used headphones with over the years. I'm listening to the Danny Elfman Spiderman score and it sounds quite good on my setup.


----------



## sebna (Jan 13, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> Hmm, okay then. So no matter what I get in that price range I can only expect to get a 10% improvement? If that is the case then what kind of setup is Silver ears listening too to be so disappointed in the THX 789? I'm okay with spending good money on gear if its truly performing with respect to its price, but if its only going to be a marginal increase I'd rather stick with what i've got. That's why I kept trying to get an answer with no luck out of @SilverEars.



Depending how to look at it but he is more or less right. If you take into account ultimate speaker systems then you are battling for last 20% in general.

The thing is, last 5-7% so when you reach 93-95% of what is possible in music reproduction using hi-fi system you are no longer listening to the music. In the right setting with the right quality recordings it becomes really out of body type experience, very addictive as you can imagine. I am not big into HP systems but so far I have not heard HP system that can achieve this, only high end speaker systems in well organized listening space but it is quite amazing what the music can do to your psyche and how it can transport you and influence much more then your hearing senses.

I do not know any other way to achieve this then dropping some serious coin on the system but I am sure if you would have access to many boxes you could put together relatively cheap and overachieving system that could give you above. However very little of us do have access to many boxes of gear to swap and test in search of the holy grail so we have to spend.

The first high-end system I have heard was based on Avantgarde Duo Omega with well matched rest of the gear. I had tears in my eyes when I was listening to it from conveyed emotions. That day has costed me quite a considerable amount of money as it triggered this hobby in me and I dived in, head first, into rabbits hole.

My speaker system is quite stable for last 3-5 years and I am just enjoying the music. Building system is nothing in compare to finding good music... 

Cheers


----------



## gtbrown50

MacMan31 said:


> Well my setup does well enough for me even if I am still considering the THX 789. If that amp is as great as people say than it likely would be "end game" for me. Perhaps upgrade the DAC at some point but that may not be necessary.



I agree! The reason for my post was I got a little miffed for being called a weirdo because I was using a THX 789 with a Yggy. I absolutely love the THX, in fact I have two of them. It is an awesome amplifier and is likely gonna keep me very happy for quite a while.


----------



## MacMan31

gtbrown50 said:


> I agree! The reason for my post was I got a little miffed for being called a weirdo because I was using a THX 789 with a Yggy. I absolutely love the THX, in fact I have two of them. It is an awesome amplifier and is likely gonna keep me very happy for quite a while.



Hehe fair enough. I may jump on the next drop whenever that happens. After just a day I've switched back to my default SE cable for my HD6XX. The constant rubbing noise in my ear cups from the Periapt XLR cable is very irritating. I emailed Periapt to see if there is anything that can be done. Perhaps they can make me another cable with a different external material. If the XLR cable had the standard "rubbery" covering of the default cable that would be fine with me. I don't hear any noise with that cable if it rubs against anything. Guess I'll see what they say if or when they reply to me.


----------



## Zachik

omniweltall said:


> Btw, the Cavalli that most interests me is the Liquid Platinum. Have you heard it?


I own it, but received very recently so still burning-in... Off topic for this thread, though.
I would say, from a very brief listen, that it is the best Cavalli amp I own (I also got Massdrop's CTH and LCX), but also the most expensive. Go figure  

Back on-topic, I did audition the THX 789 courtesy of @CEE TEE 
For people who are looking for accurate true-to-recording (i.e. not colored) and very very low noise floor - this is a great amp! I used to own the Schiit Jotunheim that is supposed to tick the same boxes, and I think the AAA 789 is better.


----------



## jmac1516

gtbrown50 said:


> I agree! The reason for my post was I got a little miffed for being called a weirdo because I was using a THX 789 with a Yggy. I absolutely love the THX, in fact I have two of them. It is an awesome amplifier and is likely gonna keep me very happy for quite a while.


I use my THX 789 with a Gumby as a bedroom setup.  Very happy over here!


----------



## CoFire

Kwyjibo said:


> Anyone have a chance to compare the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X to the THX 789?  So far I like the Cavalli, but I don't get a lot of power out of it when using the SE port.



Both are great sounding amps. The LCX is slightly warmer which in notice in the mids and might have a tinge more texture in the bass. The LCX gives guitars a slightly different tone due to this. Because of this added warmth, the THX AAA 789 presents music with a little more perceived clarity. I haven't done any hardcore AB'ing to test all the differences but this is what's most apparent immediately to me. Mary Jane's Last Dance was the song I used for this impression. 



omniweltall said:


> I don't really like the word "colorless". And I don't think that it is bright. For me, I felt that the THX 789 has slightly forward upper mid. Treble is actually quite smooth and extended, imo. But I may be biased because I'm used to my previous amps, as reference.
> 
> Also remember that people have different ear designs too. Perhaps, your hearing is more sensitive in certain frequency more than others. So, different factors can come into play. To be honest, I don't understand why silverears say it is bright. But I believe that he did experience it, for one reason or another.



I don't hear any difference in brightness compared to the LCX, but tonality sure. I like that the THX AAA 789 has treble control as compared to something like the O2. I find that amp bright. Maybe Silverears heard his DAC? Hard to say unless we have an understandable of bright compared to what. I think another good thing to point out is how loud do you listen? I'm not a loud listening so my perception may be different. 



Zachik said:


> I agree that LCX is warmer. But I personally like the LCX better. THX 789 definitely does NOT make the LCX redundant!



Agreed, they are most certainly audibly different but both enjoyable and great performers. It depends on what sound/tone you might like. 

I was listening using a Grace m9XX DAC and Focal Elex.


----------



## CoFire

Zachik said:


> I own it, but received very recently so still burning-in... Off topic for this thread, though.
> I would say, from a very brief listen, that it is the best Cavalli amp I own (I also got Massdrop's CTH and LCX), but also the most expensive. Go figure
> 
> Back on-topic, I did audition the THX 789 courtesy of @CEE TEE
> For people who are looking for accurate true-to-recording (i.e. not colored) and very very low noise floor - this is a great amp! I used to own the Schiit Jotunheim that is supposed to tick the same boxes, and I think the AAA 789 is better.



Not off topic if you compare it to the THX AAA 789 and might as well add the other amps. I have the THX AAA 789 and LCX, had the MCTH for 2 weeks until it's owner had to head back home from vacation and they all sounded and synergized differently. I am very much interested in a Liquid Platinum from what I heard of the MCTH.

Sounds like you don't have a THX AAA 789 shop that may make the comparison challenging.


----------



## MacMan31

Has anyone compared the Topping DX7 DAC/amp to any of the Massdrop offerings like the THX 789 or LCX (amp or amp/DAC)?


----------



## jsmiller58

jmac1516 said:


> I use my THX 789 with a Gumby as a bedroom setup.  Very happy over here!


That's what I like to hear - people amping it up in the bedroom...



Could.  Not.  Resist.


----------



## alpovs

gtbrown50 said:


> The reason for my post was I got a little miffed for being called a weirdo because I was using a THX 789 with a Yggy.


Don't mention that you connected them through SE, not balanced


----------



## jsmiller58

MacMan31 said:


> Has anyone compared the Topping DX7 DAC/amp to any of the Massdrop offerings like the THX 789 or LCX (amp or amp/DAC)?


I have tried the DX7S alone with its headphone amp.  My cans all are pretty low impedance, so the DX7S does give the bass a bit of a boost/warm up the sound (well, with the exception of my planar Sundara).  So I tend to avoid using the DX7S amp outputs.

My main rig is DX7s balanced into MD THX 789.  Sounds great, though almost indistinguishable from my DX3Pro, or my Topping D50 into JDS Atom.  DX3Pro and Atom SE outputs are enough for all my cans while the  balanced output on the 789 has more power than any of my cans need.


----------



## MacMan31

jsmiller58 said:


> I have tried the DX7S alone with its headphone amp.  My cans all are pretty low impedance, so the DX7S does give the bass a bit of a boost/warm up the sound (well, with the exception of my planar Sundara).  So I tend to avoid using the DX7S amp outputs.
> 
> My main rig is DX7s balanced into MD THX 789.  Sounds great, though almost indistinguishable from my DX3Pro, or my Topping D50 into JDS Atom.  DX3Pro and Atom SE outputs are enough for all my cans while the  balanced output on the 789 has more power than any of my cans need.



As much as it would be nice to have the THX 789 I'm starting to think that buy an amp with "balanced" headphone out is overkill for me. I came across this post on Reddit by someone who has the HD6XX like I do (https://old.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/afonsy/balanced_confusion/). A few of the comments state that there is no distinguishable difference between balanced and SE headphone output. Even on SE my Aune X7S does seem overkill for my headphones as using either medium or high gain means I barely have to move the volume knob and it's too loud. I do notice a bit of difference in sound signature between balance and SE but I guess I have to decide if the difference justifies the cost of a headphone amp with an included "balance" output. I emailed Periapt about the loud microphonic noise I hear while using their XLR headphone cable and they said there is really nothing that can be done. So I basically wasted money on a cable I won't use due to the irritating microphonic noise. Pretty annoyed about that as the cable cost about $100 (Canadian) and it's not really a huge difference in how the music sounds. I had the Massdrop O2+SDAC but sold it in favour of the more expensive pairing of the SDAC and Aune X7S. Was it worth it? Honestly I'm not too sure any more.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jan 14, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> As much as it would be nice to have the THX 789 I'm starting to think that buy an amp with "balanced" headphone out is overkill for me. I came across this post on Reddit by someone who has the HD6XX like I do (https://old.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/afonsy/balanced_confusion/). A few of the comments state that there is no distinguishable difference between balanced and SE headphone output. Even on SE my Aune X7S does seem overkill for my headphones as using either medium or high gain means I barely have to move the volume knob and it's too loud. I do notice a bit of difference in sound signature between balance and SE but I guess I have to decide if the difference justifies the cost of a headphone amp with an included "balance" output. I emailed Periapt about the loud microphonic noise I hear while using their XLR headphone cable and they said there is really nothing that can be done. So I basically wasted money on a cable I won't use due to the irritating microphonic noise. Pretty annoyed about that as the cable cost about $100 (Canadian) and it's not really a huge difference in how the music sounds. I had the Massdrop O2+SDAC but sold it in favour of the more expensive pairing of the SDAC and Aune X7S. Was it worth it? Honestly I'm not too sure any more.


Yeah, I certainly feel you there!!  I honestly am uncertain I could tell the difference between my various SE and balanced amp headphone outputs (other than the DX7S outputs given it’s high output impedance) if the test was done unsighted and volume matched to a good listening level.

If you have high impedance, or planar, headphones I think your X7S will do well for you!


----------



## MacMan31

jsmiller58 said:


> Yeah, I certainly feel you there!!  I honestly am uncertain I could tell the difference between my various SE and balanced amp headphone outputs (other than the DX7S outputs given it’s high output impedance) if the test was done unsighted and volume matched to a good listening level.
> 
> If you have high impedance, or planar, headphones I think your X7S will do well for you!



Well the HD6XX is 300Ohm impedance. But I don't have any planar headphones. At least not yet. I've got to find another place that makes balance headphone cables. The Periapt one isn't doing it for me. Perhaps once the THX 789 drops again I'll splurge on it just in case I care to go balance again down the road. It may match better with my Grace SDAC since both are made by Massdrop. Plus they would look better together on my desk.


----------



## gtbrown50 (Jan 14, 2019)

alpovs said:


> Don't mention that you connected them through SE, not balanced



No kidding! Sometimes I forget that we're only here to sit in judgement of others. When will I learn......


----------



## CoFire

MacMan31 said:


> As much as it would be nice to have the THX 789 I'm starting to think that buy an amp with "balanced" headphone out is overkill for me. I came across this post on Reddit by someone who has the HD6XX like I do (https://old.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/afonsy/balanced_confusion/). A few of the comments state that there is no distinguishable difference between balanced and SE headphone output. Even on SE my Aune X7S does seem overkill for my headphones as using either medium or high gain means I barely have to move the volume knob and it's too loud. I do notice a bit of difference in sound signature between balance and SE but I guess I have to decide if the difference justifies the cost of a headphone amp with an included "balance" output. I emailed Periapt about the loud microphonic noise I hear while using their XLR headphone cable and they said there is really nothing that can be done. So I basically wasted money on a cable I won't use due to the irritating microphonic noise. Pretty annoyed about that as the cable cost about $100 (Canadian) and it's not really a huge difference in how the music sounds. I had the Massdrop O2+SDAC but sold it in favour of the more expensive pairing of the SDAC and Aune X7S. Was it worth it? Honestly I'm not too sure any more.



Balanced amps are solely for more power. Yes there's the noise cancellation but unless you have a ton of electrical noise induced into your cables due to your location, it's very likely most won't reap this benefit. With more power,  some cans will hugely benefit, others just a bit. Many times its that 5% increase in quality in subtlties like bass texture, less splashy essentially, better driver control, much like speakers. Many times, if you want the appearance of more bass, more power might not be good. It's all in taste. To some that extra stretch is worth it, too others, no way.

Microphonics in cables depends on the cables and unfortunately, I don't think this always corresponds to price. This is a big time can of worms. I'll leave it at that though I'll say, get a pure material and good construction and test for micrphonics.

The HD650/HD6XX is also a "special" headphone in that it scales like crazy and needs to synergize with its chain. This is why many people don't like it. I think lots of power helps (balanced) but something with tubes either hybrid or OTL does wonders. I like my HD6XX out of the THX AAA 789 but then I heard them out of a MCTH and I think they sound better. I didn't demo them long but I'm fairly certain they sound better and with less power. 

I don't want to hype a chain but I've heard this about the HD6XX multiple times and I think for this reason, it's a polarizing headphone. Funny, you can get them cheap but they don't sound good unless you have a synergistic chain. I didn't listen to mine for a year until I got some gear I enjoyed them with. For instance,  straight out of a Grace m9XX, they are less than stellar. The 400i which many consider the planar competition, also require lots of power but I think sounds better with more gear and are less finicky on synergism. They don't scale like the HD6XX, but how far do you want to go for a single headphone?


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jan 14, 2019)

I was involved in the first drop  I have serial 00440 number on this amp have been loving it and it just died with pop and red light only display. I no something shorted out since there was a  burnt smell.

I was fortunate didn't blow a driver in my Auteur's when I was listening to it.

Will be contacting Mass Drop for a replacement.

I hope the second unit will last longer.


----------



## alpovs

FunctionalDoc said:


> I was involved in the first drop  I have serial 00440 number on this amp have been loving it and it just died with pop and red light only display. I no something shorted out since there was a  burnt smell.
> 
> I was fortunate didn't blow a driver in my Auteur's when I was listening to it.
> 
> ...


Did you have two headphones, SE and balanced, plugged in at the same time when it happened by any chance?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

No Only 1 headphone at 12 pm on the dial  on Medium gain  like done since day 1.


----------



## omniweltall

CoFire said:


> Balanced amps are solely for more power. Yes there's the noise cancellation but unless you have a ton of electrical noise induced into your cables due to your location, it's very likely most won't reap this benefit. With more power,  some cans will hugely benefit, others just a bit. Many times its that 5% increase in quality in subtlties like bass texture, less splashy essentially, better driver control, much like speakers. Many times, if you want the appearance of more bass, more power might not be good. It's all in taste. To some that extra stretch is worth it, too others, no way.
> 
> Microphonics in cables depends on the cables and unfortunately, I don't think this always corresponds to price. This is a big time can of worms. I'll leave it at that though I'll say, get a pure material and good construction and test for micrphonics.
> 
> ...


+1


----------



## MacMan31

CoFire said:


> Balanced amps are solely for more power. Yes there's the noise cancellation but unless you have a ton of electrical noise induced into your cables due to your location, it's very likely most won't reap this benefit. With more power,  some cans will hugely benefit, others just a bit. Many times its that 5% increase in quality in subtlties like bass texture, less splashy essentially, better driver control, much like speakers. Many times, if you want the appearance of more bass, more power might not be good. It's all in taste. To some that extra stretch is worth it, too others, no way.
> 
> Microphonics in cables depends on the cables and unfortunately, I don't think this always corresponds to price. This is a big time can of worms. I'll leave it at that though I'll say, get a pure material and good construction and test for micrphonics.
> 
> ...



Seems like going balanced is more pain than gain. Perhaps I should have just stuck with my Micca Origen+ DAC/amp and called it a day. This hobby is certainly a pricy one. LOL


----------



## SeanS

gtbrown50 said:


> I agree! The reason for my post was I got a little miffed for being called a weirdo because I was using a THX 789 with a Yggy. I absolutely love the THX, in fact I have two of them. It is an awesome amplifier and is likely gonna keep me very happy for quite a while.


.

I was thinking the same thing?  I run my THX 789 with a DAC3 B.  The THX 789 has permanently replaced my Burson Conductor V2.  It has as much power, has less grain, and reveals more of the details of the recordings, good or bad.  I pair with ATH W5000s, Mr Speakers Aeon closed, or LCD XCs.  I think the THX 789 is an improvement over the Burson with all 3 pairs.

Sean


----------



## chenszhanx (Jan 15, 2019)

I am using  Z1R,A2000Z,Z7,TH-X00,SRH-1840. They sound weird on my 789.

The mid-range (vocal) image is excessively wide and big.I can feel a huge mouth in a close range.
In some tracks it covered over 80 degrees field of view.

This sound signature is special.
And none  review I seen mention it.

Does anyone notice this sound signature?
Or there is a chance I got a ****ed up unit?


DAC: N-70A  M9XX  ADI-2 DAC(Borrowed)
other AMPS: Jotunhiem,GUSTARD H20(Borrowed), Pro iCAN(Borrowed)

Occurs on SE and BAL in/out
And audible at my friend's place and ear .


----------



## Kwyjibo

SeanS said:


> .
> 
> I was thinking the same thing?  I run my THX 789 with a DAC3 B.  The THX 789 has permanently replaced my Burson Conductor V2.  It has as much power, has less grain, and reveals more of the details of the recordings, good or bad.  I pair with ATH W5000s, Mr Speakers Aeon closed, or LCD XCs.  I think the THX 789 is an improvement over the Burson with all 3 pairs.
> 
> Sean


How well do the Aeon Closed pair with the THX?  I recently picked up a set and am so far enjoying them with the Liquid Carbon X, but I'm very interested in buying the THX.


----------



## SeanS (Jan 15, 2019)

Kwyjibo said:


> How well do the Aeon Closed pair with the THX?


As well as any of the others.  The planars seem to benefit most from the lack of distortion.  The W5000's seem to benefit from that as well, but mostly from a what seems to me to be more power /accurate driver control at lower frequencies.  I get more lower bass (<100Hz) from the W5000's than I've ever heard.  I can confirm with low frequency tones from a tone generator.  I can clearly hear tones down to 30Hz which I couldn't on the Burson.  "Clean and dynamic", that is my best description of this amp--it is just as clean/clear at low volumes (which most amps actually are) and stays that way as volume is increased so that I can go louder and maintain fidelity.  This all brings me closer to a live performance atmosphere.

Sean


----------



## sebna (Jan 15, 2019)

chenszhanx said:


> I am using  Z1R,A2000Z,Z7,TH-X00,SRH-1840. They sound weird on my 789.
> 
> The mid-range (vocal) image is excessively wide and big.I can feel a huge mouth in a close range.
> In some tracks it covered over 80 degrees field of view.
> ...


Could you please let me know how does H20 compare and how do you like it in general? What would be its strongest point? Is it stock OPA?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## PaganDL

@MacMan31,

In relation to your overall question, the answer is it all depends on you & what kind of sound experience you are after & whether that goes along with your mood on what you feel like listening to on any particular given day.
The important thing is you are happy.

As the common saying on here is, apologies to your wallet... 

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## flyte3333 (Jan 16, 2019)

Hi @AndrewM888

This looks to be the correct RCA-XLR configuration right? Good price too.

I think shorter and different lengths are available on Monoprice.


----------



## AndrewM888

Em2016 said:


> Hi @AndrewM888
> 
> This looks to be the correct RCA-XLR configuration right? Good price too.
> 
> I think shorter and different lengths are available on Monoprice.


Looks good!


----------



## chenszhanx

sebna said:


> Could you please let me know how does H20 compare and how do you like it in general? What would be its strongest point? Is it stock OPA?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



The unit I got is with stock opa

  H20 has is warmer and more slam then 789.
  Basic sound quality is close. 

But it don't fit with Sony headphones.Make it muddy. 

And the step volume gain setting at BAL out. Too much power for Z1R
and iems.
It plays too loud at the first tick of the step volume control with gain 1
which 789 can handle very well.


  789 might be better choice if you 
1.Want to amp some low impedance headphones and IEMs.
2.Don't care the crappy connectors on 789
3.Don't need a preamp.


----------



## bluenight (Jan 16, 2019)

So i have had a short listen only SE so far. Its a fine amp indeed. Very transparent.

Will i get the full 800mw in to a 300ohm HP using single ended rca to Thx 789 and balanced 4 pin xlr cables for the HP? Or must i have balanced cables from dac for full power?


----------



## spacequeen7

bluenight said:


> So i have had a short listen only SE so far. Its a fine amp indeed. Very transparent.
> 
> Will i get the full 800mw in to a 300ohm HP using single ended rca to Thx 789 and balanced 4 pin xlr cables for the HP? Or must i have balanced cables from dac for full power?


This amp will manhandle any HP ,you are golden


----------



## alpovs

bluenight said:


> Or must i have balanced cables from dac for full power?


No.


----------



## AndrewM888

bluenight said:


> So i have had a short listen only SE so far. Its a fine amp indeed. Very transparent.
> 
> Will i get the full 800mw in to a 300ohm HP using single ended rca to Thx 789 and balanced 4 pin xlr cables for the HP? Or must i have balanced cables from dac for full power?


Regardless of RCA or XLR DAC, the outputs give full rated power.


----------



## bluenight (Jan 17, 2019)

AndrewM888 said:


> Regardless of RCA or XLR DAC, the outputs give full rated power.


 Very nice. So why does the manual say it sounds best with 3 pin balanced connection inputs?


----------



## Marlowe

bluenight said:


> Very nice. So why does the manual say it sounds best with 3 pin balanced connection inputs?


The THX 789 deliver full power from the balanced outputs whether RCA or XLR inputs are used. (So do many Cavalli designed amps, though I believe for different design reasons; however, Schiit balanced amps do not, or so their customer service so informed me.) However, that does not mean that there is not a small bit of improvement in sound quality if XLR inputs are used. However, my understanding (though to say I am no engineer is a gross understatement) that the improvement is indeed small, especially with the THX 789. (However, that does not mean that I am not OCD enough to probably replace my single ended Mimby next month with the SMSL SU-8, a well performing DAC that is one of the, if not the, least expensive DAC with XLR outputs.)


----------



## AndrewM888

bluenight said:


> Very nice. So why does the manual say it sounds best with 3 pin balanced connection inputs?



There's zero risk of hum issues when using XLR input. 

When using RCA, there could be higher hum depending on your RCA cables shield impedance multiplied by the hum current injected by your various equipment and environmental RF (V = I * Z). You can make this a non-issue by using low Z RCA or BNC cables e.g. very short, with braid shield. e.g. 1ft Blue Jeans BJC LC-1. Or better yet get all the benefits of XLR cabling with an RCA DAC by using a cable like this in 1.5ft length: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Co...ds=rca+to+xlr+monoprice&qid=1547735495&sr=8-3

This potential hum issue is the only difference between RCA and XLR DAC connection.


----------



## eeagle

@Marlowe I received my SU-8 yesterday.  I planned ahead and picked up a set of 18" XLR cables especially for my 789; I also had some RCA interconnects so was able to hook both balanced and SE inputs to the 789.  The 789 allows one to switch easily between the two to compare.  I was able to note slightly more volume and a punchier bass when using the balanced input (& balanced out), not a huge difference, but one that most anyone could hear.  Now without test equipment this may just be the difference between the two output types on the SU-8.  The fact that both types of outputs are live coming out of the SU-8 makes it a very versatile DAC allowing one to provide a source to both types of AMP inputs.


----------



## Marlowe

I'm probably going to get the SMSL SU-8 next month (I'm retired on Social Security, use cash only and have too many expenses this month) and am going to get a one foot run of XLR cables from Blue Jeans Cable, where I got my RCA and coaxial cables. They're a bit pricey ($49 for a one foot pair) compared to Monoprice or Amazon, but have genuine Neutrik connectors and great build quality.


----------



## alpovs (Jan 17, 2019)

Nevermind.


----------



## alpovs

Marlowe said:


> The THX 789 deliver full power from the balanced outputs whether RCA or XLR inputs are used. (So do many Cavalli designed amps, though I believe for different design reasons; however, *Schiit balanced amps do not*, or so their customer service so informed me.)


That is not correct. There was some misunderstanding. By design any amp will deliver the same power regardless of which input is used. But it depends on the input signal level. The amp just kind of multiplies the signal by the same number (for a given gain and volume level). If the input signal is low to begin with then the amp will "multiply" it and the output will be kind of low. I guess it was a part of your misunderstanding with Schiit support.


----------



## AndrewM888

alpovs said:


> That is not correct. There was some misunderstanding. By design any amp will deliver the same power regardless of which input is used. But it depends on the input signal level. The amp just kind of multiplies the signal by the same number (for a given gain and volume level). If the input signal is low to begin with then the amp will "multiply" it and the output will be kind of low. I guess it was a part of your misunderstanding with Schiit support.



Keeping it simple... 
Regardless of whether you give the 789 2Vrms in RCA or 2Vrms in XLR, in Gain 3, you get full rated output power on all outputs: XLR-4, 1/4", and 3.5mm. Now of course, the "full rated output power" on the bal XLR-4 is 6 dB higher than the other two outputs. But not all headphones require that. Most headphones are at ear-bleeding levels with the 6-7 Vrms output capability of the 1/4" and 3.5mm unbal jacks.


----------



## Marlowe (Jan 17, 2019)

alpovs said:


> That is not correct. There was some misunderstanding. By design any amp will deliver the same power regardless of which input is used. But it depends on the input signal level. The amp just kind of multiplies the signal by the same number (for a given gain and volume level). If the input signal is low to begin with then the amp will "multiply" it and the output will be kind of low. I guess it was a part of your misunderstanding with Schiit support.


I do not think I still have the correspondence with Schiit (it was a question I asked while debating between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2; I got the latter), but I remember it quite clearly. I noted that while I understood I would not receive the improved sound quality of the Jot's balanced output if using a single ended source through the RCA inputs, I asked if I would still receive the benefit of the balanced output's increased power output. They told me simply "No." I can't independently evaluate the answer since I lack any technical expertise, but my question was carefully phrased and the answer was unequivocal. If there is any misunderstanding it was Schiit's, not mine.


----------



## eeagle (Jan 17, 2019)

Marlowe said:


> I'm probably going to get the SMSL SU-8 next month (I'm retired on Social Security, use cash only and have too many expenses this month) and am going to get a one foot run of XLR cables from Blue Jeans Cable, where I got my RCA and coaxial cables. They're a bit pricey ($49 for a one foot pair) compared to Monoprice or Amazon, but have genuine Neutrik connectors and great build quality.



I am not a believer in upscale cables; I'm lucky to tell the subtle differences in DACs and Amps.  I've always found Monoprice cables suit my needs well.


----------



## alpovs

Marlowe said:


> I do not think I still have the correspondence with Schiit (it was a question I asked while debating between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2; I got the latter), but I remember it quite clearly. I noted that while I understood I would not receive the improved sound quality of the Jot's balanced output if using a single ended source through the RCA inputs, I asked if I would still receive the benefit of the balanced output's increased power output. They told me simply "No." I can't independently evaluate the answer since I lack any technical expertise, but my question was carefully phrased and the answer was unequivocal.


You can check specifications of the Jot and see that the balanced output power is over 3x of that of the SE output. That is regardless of input, otherwise, it would have been noted. I can confirm this as I have the Jot and used it with a balanced DAC and now moved it to SE DAC. I don't think there is a single amp in the world whose output power would depend on the type of input. As long as it's the same voltage at the input it doesn't matter through what type of input it gets into the amp. 


Marlowe said:


> If there is any misunderstanding it was Schiit's, not mine.


This is usually the case.


----------



## bluenight

AndrewM888 said:


> There's zero risk of hum issues when using XLR input.
> 
> When using RCA, there could be higher hum depending on your RCA cables shield impedance multiplied by the hum current injected by your various equipment and environmental RF (V = I * Z). You can make this a non-issue by using low Z RCA or BNC cables e.g. very short, with braid shield. e.g. 1ft Blue Jeans BJC LC-1. Or better yet get all the benefits of XLR cabling with an RCA DAC by using a cable like this in 1.5ft length: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Co...ds=rca+to+xlr+monoprice&qid=1547735495&sr=8-3
> 
> This potential hum issue is the only difference between RCA and XLR DAC connection.


Lucky me had no hum at least with the SE output. I can turn it up to max volume and its quiet. Trying the balanced outputs comes later.


----------



## Marlowe (Jan 17, 2019)

eeagle said:


> I am not a believer in upscale cables; I'm lucky to tell the subtle differences in DACs and Amps.  I've always found Monoprice cables suit my needs well.


Actually, I largely agree with this (luckily for my bank account which is inadequate for really expensive cables). And I do have plenty of Monoprice and Amazon cables among my gear, particularly on my TV setup. But I guess I've swallowed the snake oil enough to like step up cables in my music rig. I think Blue Jeans is a good compromise, costing a reasonable amount more than basic gear and far less then the ridiculously expensive cables. The BJ cables are clearly very well made. As I mentioned, their XLR cables cost $49 for a one foot pair, which is roughly what I paid for their RCA (pair) and coaxial (one) cables together (each is one foot). I'm sure I could easily spend three, and even four, figures for all these cables if I wanted to. I don't. The closest I come to a ridiculously priced cable is my AudioQuest USB cable; I have one of their cheapest cables--Cinnamon, which cost around $65 for a short run (.75 meter IIRC). It probably does bupkis for the sound quality, but it sure looks and feels nice.


----------



## BrotherKathos

AndrewM888 said:


> There's zero risk of hum issues when using XLR input.
> 
> When using RCA, there could be higher hum depending on your RCA cables shield impedance multiplied by the hum current injected by your various equipment and environmental RF (V = I * Z). You can make this a non-issue by using low Z RCA or BNC cables e.g. very short, with braid shield. e.g. 1ft Blue Jeans BJC LC-1. Or better yet get all the benefits of XLR cabling with an RCA DAC by using a cable like this in 1.5ft length: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Co...ds=rca+to+xlr+monoprice&qid=1547735495&sr=8-3
> 
> This potential hum issue is the only difference between RCA and XLR DAC connection.



I went ahead and got a pair of the 1.5ft cables to test on my thx. Do you think this will help stop the static transfer pops and hum I get with the thx? My Audeze lcd2c is the worst and I had to change the location of it to my desktop to stop the humming. Its weird that I can also reduce the hum by tapping on the amp case. I can also introduce hum if i have my ipad plugged into another outlet, charging, and in my hand. Its like the Audeze is some kind of conducive channel as well as headphone. 

I also get pops and crackles through my sennheiser hd6xx on another desktop and my second thx. Happens when I move around alot or stand up from leather chair. Its does this weird stereo laft then right alternateing pop. Its not just the thx where this happens either though. I get pops in my nuforce edc3 iems when hooked to my iphone when walking and its sliding around inside my exercise shorts. no pops when just moving chord or messing with the jack connection, just happens when phone is ruffled around in the shorts. Does my body just creat more static than normal? So weird... What do you think?


----------



## AndrewM888

BrotherKathos said:


> I went ahead and got a pair of the 1.5ft cables to test on my thx. Do you think this will help stop the static transfer pops and hum I get with the thx? My Audeze lcd2c is the worst and I had to change the location of it to my desktop to stop the humming. Its weird that I can also reduce the hum by tapping on the amp case. I can also introduce hum if i have my ipad plugged into another outlet, charging, and in my hand. Its like the Audeze is some kind of conducive channel as well as headphone.
> 
> I also get pops and crackles through my sennheiser hd6xx on another desktop and my second thx. Happens when I move around alot or stand up from leather chair. Its does this weird stereo laft then right alternateing pop. Its not just the thx where this happens either though. I get pops in my nuforce edc3 iems when hooked to my iphone when walking and its sliding around inside my exercise shorts. no pops when just moving chord or messing with the jack connection, just happens when phone is ruffled around in the shorts. Does my body just creat more static than normal? So weird... What do you think?



Hi BrotherKathos. Humidity in the air is what limits static buildup. I think you need to run a humidifier in your house in the winter! Your electronics and your skin will thank you.

In winter heating months indoor humidity can plummet to 10-20% and static voltage buildup can be 10-20x worse than in summer (100x-400x energy due to V^2). Check out Table 1 in the link below. 
http://www.est-static.com/static.htm


----------



## BrotherKathos

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi BrotherKathos. Humidity in the air is what limits static buildup. I think you need to run a humidifier in your house in the winter! Your electronics and your skin will thank you.
> 
> In winter heating months indoor humidity can plummet to 10-20% and static voltage buildup can be 10-20x worse than in summer (100x-400x energy due to V^2). Check out Table 1 in the link below.
> http://www.est-static.com/static.htm



Thanks for that link. Very interesting. That totally makes sense for the desktop system at my place in Maine, but right now I’m on the coasf in Florida and its in the 70s with 80% humidity and I still get the pops with the thx I have here. Its very strange. Like I said before, its not isolated to the thx, but does it on my iphone with iems as well. Maybe its just me?


----------



## ayang02

AndrewM888 said:


> There's zero risk of hum issues when using XLR input.
> 
> When using RCA, there could be higher hum depending on your RCA cables shield impedance multiplied by the hum current injected by your various equipment and environmental RF (V = I * Z). You can make this a non-issue by using low Z RCA or BNC cables e.g. very short, with braid shield. e.g. 1ft Blue Jeans BJC LC-1. Or better yet get all the benefits of XLR cabling with an RCA DAC by using a cable like this in 1.5ft length: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Co...ds=rca+to+xlr+monoprice&qid=1547735495&sr=8-3
> 
> This potential hum issue is the only difference between RCA and XLR DAC connection.



If I'm understanding all this correctly, does it mean that the XLR input of the AAA 789 doesn't care if the XLR connection is balanced or not? In other words, even if the XLR input is fed balanced signals, it will get converted to single-ended within the 789?


----------



## AndrewM888

ayang02 said:


> If I'm understanding all this correctly, does it mean that the XLR input of the AAA 789 doesn't care if the XLR connection is balanced or not? In other words, even if the XLR input is fed balanced signals, it will get converted to single-ended within the 789?



First question: yes. This is how all bal inputs work. They take the input signal differentially. They dont care if it's actually symmetric or not.

Second question: yes the 789 converts bal to SE internally, maintaining proper differential signaling throughout to maintain the full benefit of a bal signal chain without adding $100 to the retail cost. It's smart design, to save you money. The stellar measurements prove this method is valid. 
Other amps use fully bal internal signal flow for various reasons e.g. to play it safe, to overcome a noisy internal environment, or for bragging rights, but the cost gets passed on to the customer. It's a tradeoff.


----------



## ayang02

Thanks for the explanation! I guess this is similar to how it's okay to convert balanced termination to single-ended ones i.e.) 4.4 mm female to 3.5 mm male adaptors.


----------



## ReAlien (Jan 19, 2019)

Finally got my hands and ears on both THX AAA 789 and Accurate Audio HPA A200 (full clone of Violectric HPA V200). By a cruel twist of fate, I'm without a cable for my 400i at the moment, and I listen to those beasts on Koss Porta Pro!  I've never heard such a fine sound from my Koss))

Anyway, even on such simple headphones, I can tell that differences between these amps are large. And what is more interesting, I love both of them at the moment. THX is more clean sounding, more detailed, clarity of soundstage is amazing. It's Yet A200 is more lifelike, like music in a bar is more lifelike than the one in a recording booth. The sound is more full-bodied, much darker/warmer and intimate than THX. THX is more digital and A200 is more analog-sounding to me.

My wife says, the THX gives more of music.))

I will follow on comparison when I get my cable back.


----------



## MacMan31

Someone yesterday posted a review on the Massdrop THX 789 page claiming that this amp sounds "too bright and two dimensional". Is there any truth to that? Does that depend on the DAC and/or headphones being used?


----------



## omniweltall

As bright as the sun...it turns my Audeze into hd800. Yay!


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Someone yesterday posted a review on the Massdrop THX 789 page claiming that this amp sounds "too bright and two dimensional". Is there any truth to that? Does that depend on the DAC and/or headphones being used?


I posted that it did come off a bit bright sounding and it does come off a bit compressed sounding and I agree with 2-dimentional.  My guess is people may like more brightness as more details, but it doesn't sound morr detailed, but just brighter.

Also, such a low THD seems meaningless as I've heard an amp that sound warmer with fairly low, and this one sounds on the bright side.  So, I would say THD value is meaningless at inaudible levels based on this experience.  Basically, you can't say it sounds better or worse because vanishing low THD.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> As bright as the sun...it turns my Audeze into hd800. Yay!


I guess is matter of preference.  I don't want anything to turn into HD800.   Please no...


----------



## MacMan31

Hmm perhaps I should go for the Liquid Carbon X instead. Apparently it has a bit more warmer tone compared to the THX 789.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm perhaps I should go for the Liquid Carbon X instead. Apparently it has a bit more warmer tone compared to the THX 789.


If that's your preference, although I can't comment on it's sound as I never tried it.  I have a preference as well, I don't like amps people refer to as 'neutral,' and I think that's a polite way of people stating that the amp sound stale, or doesn't put out much low-end.  The argument of neutral would be it doesn't sound colored, but who knows what is colored or not?  All we can go by is reference points and comparisons.

People say LCD2C sounds better with 789 (brighter), so is this color or neutral?


----------



## MacMan31

SilverEars said:


> If that's your preference, although I can't comment on it's sound as I never tried it.  I have a preference as well, I don't like amps people refer to as 'neutral,' and I think that's a polite way of people stating that the amp sound stale, or doesn't put out much low-end.  The argument of neutral would be it doesn't sound colored, but who knows what is colored or not?  All we can go by is reference points and comparisons.
> 
> People say LCD2C sounds better with 789 (brighter), so is this color or neutral?



I guess I just don't want my music to sound lifeless. I do like lots of details but not at the cost of warmth or depth. My Aune X7S sound very good even on SE. Balance is a bit better but it's annoying to use my balance XLR cable due to the "microphonic" noise when the left/right strands rub together or on my clothing.


----------



## SilverEars

MacMan31 said:


> I guess I just don't want my music to sound lifeless. I do like lots of details but not at the cost of warmth or depth. My Aune X7S sound very good even on SE. Balance is a bit better but it's annoying to use my balance XLR cable due to the "microphonic" noise when the left/right strands rub together or on my clothing.


I agree with most important is how the sound is presented to enjoy the music.  Technicality is no good with there is a barrior getting in the way to immerse into the music.  That's what the gear is all about in any AV hobby, to immerse into the content.


----------



## sodesuka

brighter compared to what? how do you know it's brighter and not what the headphones are supposed to sound with neutral source+amp? what if it's the opposite and that boosted low end is your preference or what your ears call "neutral"? this is why it's kinda hard to exchange ideas on this hobby and why objective measurements are important though obviously not the be all end all as your own ears will be the ultimate judge, not the measurements nor other people's

I personally wouldn't call this amp bright, but ymmv


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

Buy whatever that you wish. Good thing is....you actually can make "mistakes" with these amps. They arent expensive. Buy both and try!

As far as the 789 goes, like anything else, synergy is important. I'm using the 789 with HD600 and HD800. So I dont think it is bright.

@SilverEars are you comparing this with your $10k amp again? Let us play with our cheap toys


----------



## MacMan31

sodesuka said:


> brighter compared to what? how do you know it's brighter and not what the headphones are supposed to sound with neutral source+amp? what if it's the opposite and that boosted low end is your preference or what your ears call "neutral"? this is why it's kinda hard to exchange ideas on this hobby and why objective measurements are important though obviously not the be all end all as your own ears will be the ultimate judge, not the measurements nor other people's
> 
> I personally wouldn't call this amp bright, but ymmv





omniweltall said:


> Buy whatever thay you wish. Good thing is....you actually can make "mistakes" with these amps. They arent expensive. Buy both and try!
> 
> As far as the 789 goes, like anything else, synergy is important. I'm using the 789 with HD600 and HD800. So I dont think it is bright.
> 
> ...



I'd be using whichever amp I end up buying with the HD6XX and 58X headphones. I don't have any others at the moment. Nonetheless to me these are "expensive" for me. I don't exactly earn a lot of money so to buy more than one and A/B them and then sell the one I don't wish to keep is a big investment.


----------



## sodesuka

I've got 6XX before and I personally won't use it on amps that don't boost the low end, they're a bit too thin sounding/bright to me otherwise. Again, ymmv of course.

If we're purely talking about measurements, JDS Atom does almost as good as 789 and go for $99, though you're giving up balanced out for that difference, powerwise, it should run those senns no problem.


----------



## MacMan31

sodesuka said:


> I've got 6XX before and I personally won't use it on amps that don't boost the low end, they're a bit too thin sounding/bright to me otherwise. Again, ymmv of course.
> 
> If we're purely talking about measurements, JDS Atom does almost as good as 789 and go for $99, though you're giving up balanced out for that difference, powerwise, it should run those senns no problem.



I've actually considered the JDS Labs Atom. I saw Zeos review it and If I recall he said the build felt a bit cheap compared to others in the price range. I did have the O2+SDAC but sold that once I had the Aune X7S. I've just seen this which would be a nice pairing with my Grace SDAC and be a nice looking "stack". https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier But I'm not sure which gain option to pick.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> I'd be using whichever amp I end up buying with the HD6XX and 58X headphones. I don't have any others at the moment. Nonetheless to me these are "expensive" for me. I don't exactly earn a lot of money so to buy more than one and A/B them and then sell the one I don't wish to keep is a big investment.


Give the Massdrop CTH a try for the Senns. The CTH is not as technically good as this amp (less detail and impact), but it has a nice tonality and a little bit of that tube magic. Both are good, for different reasons. I decided to go with the 789 coz I already have a tube amp.


----------



## MacMan31

omniweltall said:


> Give the Massdrop CTH a try for the Senns. The CTH is not as technically good as this amp (less detail and impact), but it has a nice tonality and a little bit of that tube magic. I feel both are good, for different reasons. I decided to go with the 789 coz I already have a tube amp.



Are you are referring to this one (which is active) https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-cth-sdac-dac-amp or the one without the DAC built in (which is not live at the moment)?


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

It comes with and without dac. Your choice, but I would skip the dac.

Btw, if you ever want to use planar, I recommend the THX 789.


----------



## MacMan31

omniweltall said:


> It comes with and without dac. Your choice, but I would slip the dac.



I already have the SDAC separately so I don't need a built in DAC. But if I'm going to have one stacked on the other I want it to look presentable.


----------



## Zachik

omniweltall said:


> Buy whatever that you wish. Good thing is....you actually can make "mistakes" with these amps. They arent expensive. Buy both and try!


Totally agree! My personal problem is when I buy 2 of something, I end up keeping both... 



MacMan31 said:


> I'd be using whichever amp I end up buying with the HD6XX and 58X headphones. I don't have any others at the moment. Nonetheless to me these are "expensive" for me. I don't exactly earn a lot of money so to buy more than one and A/B them and then sell the one I don't wish to keep is a big investment.


Between Massdrop's CTH, LCX and 789 - you cannot go wrong with any of them. I totally agree it is a matter of personal taste, but even the 789 which of the 3 was *my* least favorite is a great amp. As @SilverEars mentioned, I too prefer more low end and not a big fan or neutral, but those amps could be nicely improved using Schiit's Loki EQ toy!
People that are new to this hobby do not usually know yet what would be their favorites or taste for sound signature in general. I remember those days. Your only options are experiment either at home or (better yet) at a CanJam or local meet.


----------



## MacMan31

Zachik said:


> Totally agree! My personal problem is when I buy 2 of something, I end up keeping both...
> 
> 
> Between Massdrop's CTH, LCX and 789 - you cannot go wrong with any of them. I totally agree it is a matter of personal taste, but even the 789 which of the 3 was *my* least favorite is a great amp. As @SilverEars mentioned, I too prefer more low end and not a big fan or neutral, but those amps could be nicely improved using Schiit's Loki EQ toy!
> People that are new to this hobby do not usually know yet what would be their favorites or taste for sound signature in general. I remember those days. Your only options are experiment either at home or (better yet) at a CanJam or local meet.



I actually don't know if I have any of those audio shows here where I live. Perhaps I'll jump on the LCX drop as it's currently active. The wait for the THX 789 has been long. Granted I could just stick with my Aune X7S as it's perfectly fine for me. But maybe one of these Massdrop offerings will provide a different (better?) sound signature.


----------



## Zachik

MacMan31 said:


> I actually don't know if I have any of those audio shows here where I live. Perhaps I'll jump on the LCX drop as it's currently active. The wait for the THX 789 has been long. Granted I could just stick with my Aune X7S as it's perfectly fine for me. But maybe one of these Massdrop offerings will provide a different (better?) sound signature.


If you're in the east coast of Canada - you should consider CanJam NYC (next month)...
I am not familiar with the Aune X7S but others here might, and they could provide comparison to Massdrop's amps.


----------



## MacMan31

Zachik said:


> If you're in the east coast of Canada - you should consider CanJam NYC (next month)...
> I am not familiar with the Aune X7S but others here might, and they could provide comparison to Massdrop's amps.



Would be cool to go to CamJam but I currently do not have a valid passport as mine expired a number of years ago. An application can take up to a couple months to fully process.


----------



## CoFire

omniweltall said:


> Give the Massdrop CTH a try for the Senns. The CTH is not as technically good as this amp (less detail and impact), but it has a nice tonality and a little bit of that tube magic. Both are good, for different reasons. I decided to go with the 789 coz I already have a tube amp.



The CTH amp synergizes nicely with the Senns. The sound it produces has struck my interest in the Liquid Platinum. If you like some weight in the bass, a flavor of tube harmonics, this paired well with the HD6XX, Autuer and Atticus. I don't get why warm headphones sound great with a warm tube, but my hearing tells me that amping is non linear for dynamics and that works in these cans favor. I know this from looking at Impedance vs FR plots but it's clearly audible as well. 



omniweltall said:


> It comes with and without dac. Your choice, but I would skip the dac.
> 
> Btw, if you ever want to use planar, I recommend the THX 789.



I like planars (HEX V2 and 400i) with the 789 and strangely, the Elex. This amp doesn't come across as bright to me and I do think it's more detailed than the CTH and Liquid Carbon, and by detail, I hear it in the bass and mids in addition to the treble. I like that it can remove the veil from the HD6XX but I just can deny that special quality of warmth and harmonics with the CTH. I could use either amp with the HD6XX depending on my mood. 



Zachik said:


> Totally agree! My personal problem is when I buy 2 of something, I end up keeping both...
> 
> 
> Between Massdrop's CTH, LCX and 789 - you cannot go wrong with any of them. I totally agree it is a matter of personal taste, but even the 789 which of the 3 was *my* least favorite is a great amp. As @SilverEars mentioned, I too prefer more low end and not a big fan or neutral, but those amps could be nicely improved using Schiit's Loki EQ toy!
> People that are new to this hobby do not usually know yet what would be their favorites or taste for sound signature in general. I remember those days. Your only options are experiment either at home or (better yet) at a CanJam or local meet.



All 3 amps are good choices and I feel, headphone dependent on synergy to a degree. I don't find the 789 bright but maybe some listen louder than I do. When I switch between amps, none perform poorly compared to others, just different twist on the headphones signature. 

I had all 3 amps side by side on my table for over 2 weeks. Now I have the 789 and LCX just because a friend returned back from his vacation and took the CTH. I'd like a balanced CTH, hence interest in the Liquid Platinum.


----------



## jmac1516

I don’t find the THX 789 overly bright. It’s all relative to other amps you are comparing to and the rest of your chain.  It may be slightly brighter than my V281 but I’m feeding the THX with a Gumby and find it to be a great pairing.  IMO.  YMMV.


----------



## MacMan31

CoFire said:


> The CTH amp synergizes nicely with the Senns. The sound it produces has struck my interest in the Liquid Platinum. If you like some weight in the bass, a flavor of tube harmonics, this paired well with the HD6XX, Autuer and Atticus. I don't get why warm headphones sound great with a warm tube, but my hearing tells me that amping is non linear for dynamics and that works in these cans favor. I know this from looking at Impedance vs FR plots but it's clearly audible as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for that reply. I'm using my Aune X7S with balance cable to my HD6XX right now. I've been comparing balance to SE and I think I do prefer the balance sound. Seems to remove or diminish the Sennheiser "veil" of the HD650/6XX which I'm sure some like and some don't. Yet there is still pretty decent low end. I certainly don't need to "upgrade" at all but the itch is there. Haha. If you had to pick just one of those three amps which would you choose?


----------



## omniweltall

CoFire said:


> I could use either amp with the HD6XX depending on my mood.


Exactly what I meant. Audio is often about trade-offs.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

jmac1516 said:


> I don’t find the THX 789 overly bright. It’s all relative to other amps you are comparing to and the rest of your chain.  It may be slightly brighter than my V281 but I’m feeding the THX with a Gumby and find it to be a great pairing.  IMO.  YMMV.


How do you compare the two (technically)? This is $350 vs $2600-3200.

I heard the v281 before. One thing the v281 has over the THX is power. While impact is good, it isn't exactly really the champion of small details too. If the THX 789 is flat, the v281 is guilty of that too. A lot of SS amps are guilty of this, in fact. 

I think if we want to look for faults with the THX, we should find faults with those high-end SS amps first. They cost a lot more, so they have less excuses


----------



## jmac1516

omniweltall said:


> How do you compare the two (technically)? This is $350 vs $2600-3200.
> 
> I heard the v281 before. One thing the v281 has over the THX is power. While impact is good, it isn't exactly really the champion of small details too. If the THX 789 is flat, the v281 is guilty of that too. A lot of SS amps are guilty of this, in fact.
> 
> I think if we want to look for faults with the THX, we should find faults with those high-end SS amps first. They cost a lot more, so they have less excuses.


I have each amp on separate setups in different rooms so have not really compared properly side by side with same chain.  Honestly not even interested in doing so.  

What I can say:  V281 is more versatile, more powerful, and way better built.  I know that no matter what headphone I connect to the V281, it can handle it.  

I haven’t tested the limits of the THX but so far it plays very nice with my Senn 650 and AFCs. Haven’t tried my other headphones on the THX. Overall, I am very happy with the THX especially for the price.  Definitely meets my needs!


----------



## CoFire

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for that reply. I'm using my Aune X7S with balance cable to my HD6XX right now. I've been comparing balance to SE and I think I do prefer the balance sound. Seems to remove or diminish the Sennheiser "veil" of the HD650/6XX which I'm sure some like and some don't. Yet there is still pretty decent low end. I certainly don't need to "upgrade" at all but the itch is there. Haha. If you had to pick just one of those three amps which would you choose?



For which headphone, what music genre?


----------



## MacMan31

CoFire said:


> For which headphone, what music genre?



For the HD650/6XX. I don't know what genres of music you listen to but for me I mainly listen to classical, movie scores, classic rock, jazz, blues, pop, some alternative or 90's-2000's punk rock. Over the years I've become more spread out in my listening tastes.


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> Would be cool to go to CamJam but I currently do not have a valid passport as mine expired a number of years ago. An application can take up to a couple months to fully process.


That's not correct. It's 10 business days max. If you pay $50 extra you can get it in 2 days, and if you pay even more ($110) you can get it overnight. That's if you go to the passport office which are two in Ottawa/Gatineau. Even if you mail it in it's 20 business days, usually noticeably shorter.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> That's not correct. It's 10 business days max. If you pay $50 extra you can get it in 2 days, and if you pay even more ($110) you can get it overnight. That's if you go to the passport office which are two in Ottawa/Gatineau. Even if you mail it in it's 20 business days, usually noticeably shorter.



In any event perhaps next year I could make a trip down. Do you think I'd be allowed to bring my own headphones to use to test the various amps?


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm perhaps I should go for the Liquid Carbon X instead.


I saw a review that claimed that your Aune is better. Google for both amp names.


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> In any event perhaps next year I could make a trip down. Do you think I'd be allowed to bring my own headphones to use to test the various amps?


I've never been to CamJam. No idea.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> I saw a review that claimed that your Aune is better. Google for both amp names.



I did that but I didn't see a review comparing both side by side. If I were to buy one of the Massdrop options I can just A/B them myself.


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> I did that but I didn't see a review comparing both side by side. If I were to buy one of the Massdrop options I can just A/B them myself.


See at the bottom of first post: "Another choice -- if you don't mind the high output impedance -- is the Aune X7s. It is the same price at Liquid Carbon X but with a lot more clean power."


----------



## BrotherKathos (Jan 19, 2019)

Now I remember why I did not get the Aune. The output impedance is just way too high. The only headphones I own that would work with it are my hd6xx. That's if you subscribe to the damping ratio rule for impedance. 11.1 is pretty bad, especially since most headphones on the market are 60 ohm or under. Really limits your options.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> See at the bottom of first post: "Another choice -- if you don't mind the high output impedance -- is the Aune X7s. It is the same price at Liquid Carbon X but with a lot more clean power."



Thanks for that link. I don't really know how to read all those charts and graphs but from what I'm reading there it seems to get an average rating for performance. Perhaps it's not a good buy.



BrotherKathos said:


> Now I remember why I did not get the Aune. The output impedance is just way too high. The only headphones I own that would work with it are my hd6xx. That's if you subscribe to the damping ratio rule for impedance. 11.7 is pretty bad, especially since most headphones on the market are 60 ohm or under. Really limits your options.



So higher output impedance is not necessarily a good thing?


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for that link. I don't really know how to read all those charts and graphs but from what I'm reading there it seems to get an average rating for performance. Perhaps it's not a good buy.
> 
> 
> 
> So higher output impedance is not necessarily a good thing?



You generally want your headphones to have an impedance of 8-10 times that of your amp's output impedance. So for your Aune that takes every headphone under 110 ohms off the list.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> You generally want your headphones to have an impedance of 8-10 times that of your amp's output impedance. So for your Aune that takes every headphone under 110 ohms off the list.



Hmm okay. So using any headphone with an impedance under 110Ohm on the Aune X7S would be bad? I haven't done that yet but just curious. I was interested in these but seems they would not pair well with the X7S. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-tr-x00-mahogany-headphones


----------



## CoFire

BrotherKathos said:


> You generally want your headphones to have an impedance of 8-10 times that of your amp's output impedance. So for your Aune that takes every headphone under 110 ohms off the list.



This is especially true for dynamics as the impedance typically varies over the FR. For planars, they are typically even in impedance across the FR so the sound across the spectrum should still be equal. At that point it would be a matter of providing clean current. This is just a theoretical discussion, I've never powered planars with a high output impedance amp so not sure on the real result.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm okay. So using any headphone with an impedance under 110Ohm on the Aune X7S would be bad? I haven't done that yet but just curious. I was interested in these but seems they would not pair well with the X7S. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-tr-x00-mahogany-headphones


Yes, those would typically be very bad. The impedance mis match does wonky things to the fr responce,  but some might like it. But the headphones will not operate as the oem desired with the mis match, mutch more than just changing and amp would produce.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Yes, those would typically be very bad. The impedance mis match does wonky things to the fr responce,  but some might like it. But the headphones will not operate as the oem desired with the mis match, mutch more than just changing and amp would produce.



Hmm okay. So would those Fostex work much better with the Massdrop amp offerings? Thing is that despite the average rating for the above linked review of the LCX I may end up really liking it. Seems sound enjoyment is very subjective.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> Yes, those would typically be very bad. The impedance mis match does wonky things to the fr responce,  but some might like it. But the headphones will not operate as the oem desired with the mis match, mutch more than just changing and amp would produce.


Looking at Innerfidelity's impedance response graph, it's relatively close to being linear impedance response in the 26ohms, but at 20hz it has tiny bit variance of +2 ohms.  So I think it's it's relatively flat almost like planars, and shouldn't get really wonky.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FostexTHX00sn1927.pdf

X7S output impedance is 10ohm in single ended mode and 20 ohm in balanced mode.  Under spec, the closest that shows for power delivery is 1,700 mW at 32RZ XLR, and X00 is about 26 ohms impedance.  I thought it was pretty easy to drive with portable DAP as well.


----------



## Zachik

MacMan31 said:


> In any event perhaps next year I could make a trip down. Do you think I'd be allowed to bring my own headphones to use to test the various amps?


You are absolutely allowed! Every amp vendor would let you test their amps with ANY headphone you want


----------



## MacMan31 (Jan 19, 2019)

Zachik said:


> You are absolutely allowed! Every amp vendor would let you test their amps with ANY headphone you want



That's pretty cool. Was just looking at the website for the event and tickets to get in are only $30. Was expecting it to be much higher around $200 or more. Maybe next year once I get my passport and full drivers license I'll drive down for the weekend. A Toronto show would have been that much better though for me.


----------



## bluenight (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Someone yesterday posted a review on the Massdrop THX 789 page claiming that this amp sounds "too bright and two dimensional". Is there any truth to that? Does that depend on the DAC and/or headphones being used?


 I do find it to be harsh at some times in the higher frequencys in my system. Maybe a warmer HP then HD800S is a better paring. Now my solid state Lake People RS 02 sounds like an tube amp compared to Thx 789. Also depends on what dac and cables you use i think.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Jan 19, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> Looking at Innerfidelity's impedance response graph, it's relatively close to being linear impedance response in the 26ohms, but at 20hz it has tiny bit variance of +2 ohms.  So I think it's it's relatively flat almost like planars, and shouldn't get really wonky.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FostexTHX00sn1927.pdf



Even if the impedance does not vary, th fostex is still far from being properly damped. THe same reason why the Aune would also be bad for planars like the hifiman he-400i and he4xx. Those have impedance around 30-40 ohms which is also way too low. Unless my understanding of the whole thing is very different from yours? This priciple also applies when matching pre amps with power amps. Those also do not vary and just have static impedance, but the ratio rule still applies there.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I have to say I like the THX 789 with the HD6XX. I don't get the sense that they have become brighter. At least not when compared to other amps i have like the Asgard 2 which is generally referred to as a 'warm' amp. The difference is the Asgard 2 is hazier and grainy compared to the thx with the hd6xx. Thx is just as 'warm', but is also cleaner and smoother. I'd much rather have a cleaner and smoother amp that gives me less fatigue, then a duller one that just gives me hazy distortion in the background that also fatigues me after a long session. Some people like that soup though. Why those types generally gravitate towards the tubes. The thx is by far the amp I own that pairs best with everything. The magni 3 is best with hd6xx, and th asgard 2 is best with planars. The planars help manage the soup, but the planars still sound best on the thx. Just another level amp.


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> I have to say I like the THX 789 with the HD6XX. I don't get the sense that they have become brighter. At least not when compared to other amps i have like the Asgard 2 which is generally referred to as a 'warm' amp. The difference is the Asgard 2 is hazier and grainy compared to the thx with the hd6xx. Thx is just as 'warm', but is also cleaner and smoother. I'd much rather have a cleaner and smoother amp that gives me less fatigue, then a duller one that just gives me hazy distortion in the background that also fatigues me after a long session. Some people like that soup though. Why those types generally gravitate towards the tubes. The thx is by far the amp I own that pairs best with everything. The magni 3 is best with hd6xx, and th asgard 2 is best with planars. The planars help manage the soup, but the planars still sound best on the thx. Just another level amp.


Not tube amps are warm and dull. Those are usually the OTL. I also dont like those. 

Agree the THX is clean clear. I didnt even notice it is warm. Im liking it a lot that I got rid of my other SS amps.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> Not tube amps are warm and dull. Those are usually the OTL. I also dont like those.
> 
> Agree the THX is clean clear. I didnt even notice it is warm. Im liking it a lot that I got rid of my other SS amps.



I thought the really good OTLs were the clearest and most transparent tube amps because of the lack of output transformers that are the biggest source of distortion in tube amps?


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> I thought the really good OTLs were the clearest and most transparent tube amps because of the lack of output transformers that are the biggest source of distortion in tube amps?


Those are marketing crap. OTL normally has bad technicalities and high output impedance. What they offer is tonality....warm and lush. In this hobby, I always get alerted when people use the words "warm, lush, natural". Many times, it means bad technicalities hiding behind tonality.

I always prefer OPT designs in general.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> Those are marketing crap. OTL normally has bad technicalities and high output impedance. What they offer is tonality....warm and lush. In this hobby, I always get alerted when people use the words "warm, lush, natural". Many times, it means bad technicalities hiding behind tonality.
> 
> I always prefer OPT designs in general.


Makes sense.


----------



## omniweltall

Those trafos are there for a reason. And good ones are expensive. OTL in general is a cheaper design.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I have to say I like the THX 789 with the HD6XX. I don't get the sense that they have become brighter. At least not when compared to other amps i have like the Asgard 2 which is generally referred to as a 'warm' amp. The difference is the Asgard 2 is hazier and grainy compared to the thx with the hd6xx. Thx is just as 'warm', but is also cleaner and smoother. I'd much rather have a cleaner and smoother amp that gives me less fatigue, then a duller one that just gives me hazy distortion in the background that also fatigues me after a long session. Some people like that soup though. Why those types generally gravitate towards the tubes. The thx is by far the amp I own that pairs best with everything. The magni 3 is best with hd6xx, and th asgard 2 is best with planars. The planars help manage the soup, but the planars still sound best on the thx. Just another level amp.



Well if I do end up splurging on the THX 789 I hope it's worth the wait. Over 8,200 requests for this amp so hopefully it drops soon. I'm sure many who have joined the drop like myself are getting anxious waiting.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Well if I do end up splurging on the THX 789 I hope it's worth the wait. Over 8,200 requests for this amp so hopefully it drops soon. I'm sure many who have joined the drop like myself are getting anxious waiting.



When it comes up snatch one quick. They are going to sell out soon if they only have another limited stock run.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> When it comes up snatch one quick. They are going to sell out soon if they only have another limited stock run.



Yeah true. The annoying thing is that stuff like that usually happens when I'm working or otherwise occupied so I end up missing it.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Yeah true. The annoying thing is that stuff like that usually happens when I'm working or otherwise occupied so I end up missing it.


You should at least have a day to get one. Or around 12 hours. So maybe on a break snatch it.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> You should at least have a day to get one. Or around 12 hours. So maybe on a break snatch it.



Yeah I'll probably do that. I'm just hoping that with all the hype for this amp that I don't have too high expectations and end up being underwhelmed.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Yeah I'll probably do that. I'm just hoping that with all the hype for this amp that I don't have too high expectations and end up being underwhelmed.



Its definitely not going to completely overturn all your previous notions on how music sounds, but its a very nice amp, and for its price can pretty much as far as I know be called unrivaled.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Yeah true. The annoying thing is that stuff like that usually happens when I'm working or otherwise occupied so I end up missing it.


Same here.



MacMan31 said:


> Yeah I'll probably do that. I'm just hoping that with all the hype for this amp that I don't have too high expectations and end up being underwhelmed.


It is a great amp imo. Even the build quality surpassed my expectation. I'm liking this massdrop casing a lot. The buttons are all well-made. Everything is sturdy. I really don't get people who complain about the build quality. 

But please manage your expectation. Even $3k gears might not live up to it, let alone a $350.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Its definitely not going to completely overturn all your previous notions on how music sounds, but its a very nice amp, and for its price can pretty much as far as I know be called unrivaled.



Well given the exchange rate to Canadian dollars it will cost around $500 for me. Is it still worth it at that price?


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Well given the exchange rate to Canadian dollars it will cost around $500 for me. Is it still worth it at that price?


I can't think of any amp I'd rather have under $1000 U.S The only others I'm thinking of getting as an upgrade are ones from violectric, and those are in an entirely different price category. I'm still trying to find a way to justify it, and so far have not. I'm happy with the thx. I stay away from tubes since I don't like having to service them all the time and change the tubes either. The only tube amps I have are for my guitars.


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> I can't think of any amp I'd rather have under $1000 U.S The only others I'm thinking of getting as an upgrade are ones from violectric, and those are in an entirely different price category. I'm still trying to find a way to justify it, and so far have not. I'm happy with the thx. I stay away from tubes since I don't like having to service them all the time and change the tubes either. The only tube amps I have are for my guitars.


Brother, give the Violectric a try before you buy it. Really. 

In my opinion, the THX 789 exists to challenge exactly those type of amps. You can get so much for so little.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> Brother, give the Violectric a try before you buy it. Really.
> 
> In my opinion, the THX 789 exists to challenge exactly those type of amps. You can get so much for so little.



That's my dilemma. I don't want to take the plunge without hearing them with my gear. So unless I find a retailer that lets me audition like Schiit does its probably not going to happen.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I can't think of any amp I'd rather have under $1000 U.S The only others I'm thinking of getting as an upgrade are ones from violectric, and those are in an entirely different price category. I'm still trying to find a way to justify it, and so far have not. I'm happy with the thx. I stay away from tubes since I don't like having to service them all the time and change the tubes either. The only tube amps I have are for my guitars.



Fair enough. I just want something that is solidly built and will last me a long time. Perhaps down the road I could upgrade my DAC but for now I'm sure the Grace SDAC will do just fine.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Oh yeh, The Hoff never sounded so good


----------



## MacMan31

Haha well that was random.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Haha well that was random.



hehe "Permit DENIED"


----------



## BrotherKathos

I think the THX adds some presence to the Hoff's action sequence and imposing character. Must be a side effect of the thx brand.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> I think the THX adds some presence to the Hoff's action sequence and imposing character. Must be a side effect of the thx brand.



Hehe perhaps. But hopefully the THX 789 makes music like this sound amazing.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Jan 19, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> Hehe perhaps. But hopefully the THX 789 makes music like this sound amazing.



Well done   Sounds pretty good to me, even better than i remember at the theater!


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Well done   Sounds pretty good to me, even better than i remember at the theater!



That's the kind of music I listen to a lot more nowadays. 

Picked these up recently.


----------



## bluenight

I had a listen with HD650 and it is easier on the ears  then HD800S. On the track Sad but true-metallica. The drum strikes is harsh on HD800S for me.


----------



## eeagle

MacMan31 said:


> Hehe perhaps. But hopefully the THX 789 makes music like this sound amazing.



THX The John Williams Star Wars link made my morning cappuccino taste so much better!

I'm on my laptop this morning using my CEntrance DACport HD driving some Audeze Sine's, the 789 is certainly not portable.


----------



## MacMan31

eeagle said:


> THX The John Williams Star Wars link made my morning cappuccino taste so much better!
> 
> I'm on my laptop this morning using my CEntrance DACport HD driving some Audeze Sine's, the 789 is certainly not portable.



So you would say that the THX 789 is a great choice for music that is most (if not all) instrumental?


----------



## bluenight (Jan 20, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> I can't think of any amp I'd rather have under $1000 U.S The only others I'm thinking of getting as an upgrade are ones from violectric, and those are in an entirely different price category. I'm still trying to find a way to justify it, and so far have not. I'm happy with the thx. I stay away from tubes since I don't like having to service them all the time and change the tubes either. The only tube amps I have are for my guitars.


 I think this is there most bang for buck amp from violectric/Lake People.
http://violectric-usa.com/rs-08
Powerfull
27,8 Veff in 300 Ohm = 2570 mW


I have the single ended one.I Would  Like to uppgrade to this someday maybe. RS 02 is awesome and warmer then Thx 789. I cant say Thx is better yet. Need to listen more to come to a final conclusion.


----------



## Fatdoi

can we stick to the topic.... not things that cost 3-5X more


----------



## Francisk

Has anyone paired the Chord Mojo with the THX AAA 789? Your opinion will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## bgoods1221 (Jan 20, 2019)

Just for kicks, has anyone tried pairing the thx AAA with the Andromeda?


----------



## MacMan31

Okay so I'm watching the Zeos review of the THX 789 and he mentions something that I didn't catch before. Why is it that the higher the headphone impedance the lower the milliwatts or watts of output power?


----------



## BrotherKathos

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so I'm watching the Zeos review of the THX 789 and he mentions something that I didn't catch before. Why is it that the higher the headphone impedance the lower the milliwatts or watts of output power?


Higher impedance headphones basically makes it harder for the amp to supply them with power. Think of a water pressure tank with a big and small tube. The big tube has lower impedance, so the tank can supply lots of water(power). When the tube is smaller the amp cannot supply the same amount of water(power) without increasing the amp(water tank's) pressure(power). Smaller tube being the high impedance headphones.


----------



## MacMan31

BrotherKathos said:


> Higher impedance headphones basically makes it harder for the amp to supply them with power. Think of a water pressure tank with a big and small tube. The big tube has lower impedance, so the tank can supply lots of water(power). When the tube is smaller the amp cannot supply the same amount of water(power) without increasing the amp(water tank's) pressure(power). Smaller tube being the high impedance headphones.



Hmm okay. I think that makes sense. Isn't that the same kind of thing with speakers? Seems the lower the Ohm on speakers the harder they are to drive. Zeos was basically saying that the specs for this amp are very high. Like the THD of 143dB is apparently virtually unmeasurable.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 20, 2019)

I was listening to my HD800 and THX 789 yesterday. Have to say it is really good. I can only be critical if I compare it side by side with my tube amp. Otherwise, I cannot find faults in it.

No, my HD800 is far from bright. It's just nice. But I'm using mimby/Loki and my HD800 has dekoni amd sdr mod.


----------



## organ_donor

omniweltall said:


> I was listening to my HD800 and THX 789 yesterday. Have to say it is really good. I can only be critical if I compare it side by side with my tube amp. Otherwise, I cannot find faults in it.
> 
> No, my HD800 is far from bright. It's just nice. But I'm using mimby/Loki and my HD800 has dekoni amd sdr mod.



Hi, how is the transient of that setup? I have a HD800 and SDAC now considering the 789 or maybe also bimby. I miss my previous Stax setup which is super fast.


----------



## omniweltall

organ_donor said:


> Hi, how is the transient of that setup? I have a HD800 and SDAC now considering the 789 or maybe also bimby. I miss my previous Stax setup which is super fast.


It sounds good to my ears. 

Transient is one of the trickier audio terms. I think of it as more of leading attack, which this amp is good at.


----------



## ayang02

Francisk said:


> Has anyone paired the Chord Mojo with the THX AAA 789? Your opinion will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.



I think me and at least one other person in this thread have paired the Mojo with the THX AAA 789. Short summary: it's an okay pairing if you don't care about bass response. I find it to be a bit lacking in that department.

I've tried to set the Mojo output level to its 3V RMS "line out" setting as well as 4 clicks down from that to the 1.9V RMS setting, both sounded about the same on the 789 after gain/volume adjustments. I much prefer the Sony PHA-3 pairing as the sound is more balanced.


----------



## Francisk

ayang02 said:


> I think me and at least one other person in this thread have paired the Mojo with the THX AAA 789. Short summary: it's an okay pairing if you don't care about bass response. I find it to be a bit lacking in that department.
> 
> I've tried to set the Mojo output level to its 3V RMS "line out" setting as well as 4 clicks down from that to the 1.9V RMS setting, both sounded about the same on the 789 after gain/volume adjustments. I much prefer the Sony PHA-3 pairing as the sound is more balanced.


Thanks for your feedback ayang02. To be honest, the Mojo is able to power my HD600 without any issue but I'm looking for a good quality and affordable headphone amp so that I can just upgrade the DAC in the future because DACs have a few years life span before newer and better ones replace the old one. I just don't want to be spending money on a headphone AMP/DAC all the time when new technology requires an upgrade.I think it's more sensible to settle for the THX AAA 789 as soon as Massdrop resume sale and just use my Mojo as the DAC. My only worry is that the THX AAA 789 won't deliver much difference than the Mojo standalone as a DAC/AMP because it drives my HD600 pretty well and I can't really complain about the Mojo for it's asking price.


----------



## omniweltall (Jan 21, 2019)

Francisk said:


> Thanks for your feedback ayang02. To be honest, the Mojo is able to power my HD600 without any issue but I'm looking for a good quality and affordable headphone amp so that I can just upgrade the DAC in the future because DACs have a few years life span before newer and better ones replace the old one. I just don't want to be spending money on a headphone AMP/DAC all the time when new technology requires an upgrade.I think it's more sensible to settle for the THX AAA 789 as soon as Massdrop resume sale and just use my Mojo as the DAC. My only worry is that the THX AAA 789 won't deliver much difference than the Mojo standalone as a DAC/AMP because it drives my HD600 pretty well and I can't really complain about the Mojo for it's asking price.


Power alone can be your motivation to get the THX 789. Difference is large.

Also, their sound sigs are different. Mojo is thicker and more fun mainstream type of sound. The THX 789 is more neutral, reference, and has better extension.


----------



## Francisk (Jan 21, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> Power alone can be your motivation to get the THX 789. Difference is large.
> 
> Also, their sound sigs are different. Mojo is thicker and more fun mainstream type of sound. The THX 789 is more neutral, reference, and has better extension.


Great then, reference is what I'm after. Power aside, will the THX 789 make my Mojo sound more neutral? I'm a little skeptical about that though because whatever comes out of the Mojo is already going through it's own amp so that means it's still going to output the Mojo thick fun mainstream sound into the THX 789. in other words, I'm still going to get the same Mojo thick fun mainstream sound out of the THX 789...considering the fact that TH 789 is neutral and reference so it's not supposed to alter the sound that's being fed to it...so what goes in (Mojo standalone sound) should be exactly the same as what comes out (Mojo + THX 789 sound) right? It'd be great if someone can share a direct comparison of the Mojo standalone sound VS Mojo paired with THX 789.


----------



## omniweltall

Francisk said:


> Great then, reference is what I'm after. Power aside, will the THX 789 make my Mojo sound more neutral? I'm a little skeptical about that though because whatever comes out of the Mojo is already going through it's own amp so that means it's still going to output the Mojo thick fun mainstream sound into the THX 789. in other words, I'm still going to get the same Mojo thick fun mainstream sound out of the THX 789...considering the fact that TH 789 is neutral and reference so it's not supposed to alter the sound that's being fed to it...so what goes in (Mojo standalone sound) should be exactly the same as what comes out (Mojo + THX 789 sound) right? It'd be great if someone can share a direct comparison of the Mojo standalone sound VS Mojo paired with THX 789.


I'll let someone else answer that, since I sold my Mojo long ago. In theory, the sound sig should be somewhere in between. But need to try it to be sure.


----------



## spacequeen7

Francisk said:


> Great then, reference is what I'm after. Power aside, will the THX 789 make my Mojo sound more neutral? I'm a little skeptical about that though because whatever comes out of the Mojo is already going through it's own amp so that means it's still going to output the Mojo thick fun mainstream sound into the THX 789. in other words, I'm still going to get the same Mojo thick fun mainstream sound out of the THX 789...considering the fact that TH 789 is neutral and reference so it's not supposed to alter the sound that's being fed to it...so what goes in (Mojo standalone sound) should be exactly the same as what comes out (Mojo + THX 789 sound) right? It'd be great if someone can share a direct comparison of the Mojo standalone sound VS Mojo paired with THX 789.



All the attributes of this amp are right in the name... "linear"/transparent   minus about 10% (opamps ) what you DAC should sound like ,I tested AKM ,Seber , R2R and they all sound very different ,this amp can be reviling to some degree but not to bad ,yes it can get analytical sometimes but that's one tradeoffs of this amp (wish you could roll opamps in this thing ) ,just my 2c


----------



## FlowSik

Just got one of these, can i plug in all 3 output and choose which one to use whenever i need to?

Thanks


----------



## AndrewM888

FlowSik said:


> Just got one of these, can i plug in all 3 output and choose which one to use whenever i need to?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, but two cautions:
- make sure impedance of all the HP loads in parallel is > 12 Ohms (https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/parallel-resistance-calculator/) 
and
- all outputs are driven all the time. Just watch out you don't blow some sensitive cans while listening to your other cans really loudly.


----------



## Slashn77

Has anyone tried the Schiit Lyr 3 vs the THX?

I am running a Mimby to vali 2 right now and looking for an amp upgrade for my LCD-2 classics and HD700s.
I have powered monitors that I use the Vali 2 for a preamp as well and the Lyr 3 is a preamp but not the THX. I only run SE so balanced is not a priority right now


----------



## ayang02

Francisk said:


> Great then, reference is what I'm after. Power aside, will the THX 789 make my Mojo sound more neutral? I'm a little skeptical about that though because whatever comes out of the Mojo is already going through it's own amp so that means it's still going to output the Mojo thick fun mainstream sound into the THX 789. in other words, I'm still going to get the same Mojo thick fun mainstream sound out of the THX 789...considering the fact that TH 789 is neutral and reference so it's not supposed to alter the sound that's being fed to it...so what goes in (Mojo standalone sound) should be exactly the same as what comes out (Mojo + THX 789 sound) right? It'd be great if someone can share a direct comparison of the Mojo standalone sound VS Mojo paired with THX 789.



I will try to share some impressions using Mojo standalone vs with THX 789 when I have time. I haven't used the Mojo for at least a year now ever since acquiring the Centrance BlueDAC. I just recently charged the Mojo up to pair with the 789. I don't think there's a way to bypass the "amp" stage of the Mojo or whatever they want to call it so there is a possibility that we are double amping here and introducing more distortion.


----------



## ayang02

ayang02 said:


> I will try to share some impressions using Mojo standalone vs with THX 789 when I have time. I haven't used the Mojo for at least a year now ever since acquiring the Centrance BlueDAC. I just recently charged the Mojo up to pair with the 789. I don't think there's a way to bypass the "amp" stage of the Mojo or whatever they want to call it so there is a possibility that we are double amping here and introducing more distortion.



I briefly compared the Mojo by itself vs paired with the THX 789 using the Sennheiser IE80. Back when I was using Mojo as my daily driver, I almost exclusively paired it with the AKG K3003 and this pairing was wonderfully delightful and neutral to my ears. This is the first time I tried to pair the Mojo with the IE80 and I finally get why some people describe Mojo's sound as fun, thick, and musical. The sound I get out of this pairing is also pretty balanced, didn't notice the bass of the IE80 protrude too much like I remember with other amps.

The sound I hear coming out of the THX 789 & Mojo pairing is not as thick as it sounded straight out of the Mojo. The sound stage might even be a little wider but the bass response is a bit flatter. Again, I don't think Mojo's sound signature is drastically altered by the THX 789 as I feel it was pretty balanced already.


----------



## bluenight

Going over to 4 pin xlr balanced HP cables i couldent hear a difference i think. Also i felt the volume control had to travel the same distance as before for same volume. Using rca inputs. Pressing in input button it was muted as it should be i guess.


----------



## MacMan31

bluenight said:


> Going over to 4 pin xlr balanced HP cables i couldent hear a difference i think. Also i felt the volume control had to travel the same distance as before for same volume. Using rca inputs. Pressing in input button it was muted as it should be i guess.



This is my worry if I were to purchase this amp. Exchange rate to Canada makes it about $500. That’s a lot of money for me just to use it with SE output. I would want to use it balanced.


----------



## Marlowe

bluenight said:


> Going over to 4 pin xlr balanced HP cables i couldent hear a difference i think. Also i felt the volume control had to travel the same distance as before for same volume. Using rca inputs. Pressing in input button it was muted as it should be i guess.


The stock balanced cable on my Focal Elex suddenly lost the left channel a couple of days ago, so I am currently using the single ended cable with the THX 789. While the difference on the volume pot was less than I thought it might be, it was certainly quite noticeable. When using the balanced output, I generally listened on gain 2 with the volume around 10 o'clock, plus or minus a bit. Using the single ended output, I am still on gain 2 but at around 12 o'clock on the pot to get a similar volume. I'm using a single ended source with RCA cables, but will probably get a SMSL SU-8 and XLR cables in a few weeks. 

A little off topic, but Massdrop was great about this--they have already shipped me a replacement Elex; I asked a couple of times if they could just replace the cable, but it is not their policy to replace individual parts of a product. TBH, I may just  exchange cables, keep my current Elex and send back the replacement, partially because I've broken it in as to comfort, but mostly because some Elex sets appear to be defective in that the drivers physically clip at relatively low volume (apparently they are designed to do so, but at volumes decidedly north of ear splitting) and, after a couple of months, my pair seems free of that defect. I'll listen to both before deciding.


----------



## bluenight

Marlowe said:


> The stock balanced cable on my Focal Elex suddenly lost the left channel a couple of days ago, so I am currently using the single ended cable with the THX 789. While the difference on the volume pot was less than I thought it might be, it was certainly quite noticeable. When using the balanced output, I generally listened on gain 2 with the volume around 10 o'clock, plus or minus a bit. Using the single ended output, I am still on gain 2 but at around 12 o'clock on the pot to get a similar volume. I'm using a single ended source with RCA cables, but will probably get a SMSL SU-8 and XLR cables in a few weeks.
> 
> A little off topic, but Massdrop was great about this--they have already shipped me a replacement Elex; I asked a couple of times if they could just replace the cable, but it is not their policy to replace individual parts of a product. TBH, I may just  exchange cables, keep my current Elex and send back the replacement, partially because I've broken it in as to comfort, but mostly because some Elex sets appear to be defective in that the drivers physically clip at relatively low volume (apparently they are designed to do so, but at volumes decidedly north of ear splitting) and, after a couple of months, my pair seems free of that defect. I'll listen to both before deciding.


Could be that i am wrong about the volume travel because i never compared thoroughly. Was just my feeling.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 27, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> Higher impedance headphones basically makes it harder for the amp to supply them with power. Think of a water pressure tank with a big and small tube. The big tube has lower impedance, so the tank can supply lots of water(power). When the tube is smaller the amp cannot supply the same amount of water(power) without increasing the amp(water tank's) pressure(power). Smaller tube being the high impedance headphones.


It's actually not that simple.  Actually it's about impedance of the cans relative to the ouput impedance of the cans when it comes to power delivery. Higher, you get more delivered.  If lower, you get the amp dissipating more of the power, less efficient.  OTL for example.  Lowest output impedance is therefore easier on the amp and most efficient.

Loudness per power input is what we care about.  DB/mW.  Sennheisers are quite sensitive (gets loud easily) even if high ohms.  HE6 is only 50 ohms, but people drive it out of speaker taps.


----------



## BrotherKathos

SilverEars said:


> It's actually not that simple.  Actually it's about impedance of the cans relative to the ouput impedance of the cans when it comes to power delivery. Higher, you get more delivered.  If lower, you get the amp dissipating more of the power, less efficient.  OTL for example.  Lowest output impedance is therefore easier on the amp and most efficient.
> 
> Loudness per power input is what we care about.  DB/mW.  Sennheisers are quite sensitive (gets loud easily) even if high ohms.  HE6 is only 50 ohms, but people drive it out of speaker taps.


I was answering a question specific to impedance and amp output. Sensitivity is not a factor there as far as I know. And all other things being equal, a 300 ohm headphone will draw less power from an amp than a 30 ohm one, again as far as I know, but if I’m wrong be sure to tell me.


----------



## omniweltall

@SilverEars he does have a point, you know LOL.



SilverEars said:


> relative to the ouput impedance of the cans


You mean "relative to the ouput impedance of the amps"? I don't really get it. Maybe I'm really sleepy. Better get some sleep.


----------



## MacMan31

So is this amp going to ever drop again?? It's been quite awhile however their other amps seems to be regular drops. Is the THX 789 really worth this long of a wait?


----------



## elira

MacMan31 said:


> So is this amp going to ever drop again?? It's been quite awhile however their other amps seems to be regular drops. Is the THX 789 really worth this long of a wait?


It’s going to be hard to get something similar at its price range. You can get the JDS labs atom if you don’t care about balanced. I think the problem with the THX AAA has been some parts supply and Massdrop didn’t anticipate it would become that popular.


----------



## MacMan31

elira said:


> It’s going to be hard to get something similar at its price range. You can get the JDS labs atom if you don’t care about balanced. I think the problem with the THX AAA has been some parts supply and Massdrop didn’t anticipate it would become that popular.



Well I've been going back and forth on the balanced issue. Some say they hear a difference compared to SE and some say there is no difference. Perhaps it depends on the amp being used. I've looked at the Atom but also the Massdrop O2 amp (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier). The latter would stack perfectly with my Grace SDAC as they have the same casing.


----------



## elira

MacMan31 said:


> Well I've been going back and forth on the balanced issue. Some say they hear a difference compared to SE and some say there is no difference. Perhaps it depends on the amp being used. I've looked at the Atom but also the Massdrop O2 amp (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier). The latter would stack perfectly with my Grace SDAC as they have the same casing.


The atom is like a second gen O2. For pure performance I would recommend the Atom.


----------



## MacMan31

elira said:


> The atom is like a second gen O2. For pure performance I would recommend the Atom.



Have you tried the Atom yourself? I've heard that the build quality being virtually all plastic makes it feel kind of cheap.


----------



## elira

MacMan31 said:


> Have you tried the Atom yourself? I've heard that the build quality being virtually all plastic makes it feel kind of cheap.


I've not tried it myself.


----------



## ReAlien (Jan 28, 2019)

Now that I have heard my current gear in its complete form, I can draw some conclusions.

1. THX cannot truly unlock HE560s potential with SE cable.* With XLR cable it has finally shown its true colors.
2. Both amps are true performers and without A/B testing it is hard to find any shortcoming in both of them. I am afraid, I'll have to keep both of them instead of selling a loser. 
2. A200 has less detail than THX, less clarity, and less brightness. Nothing dramatical, but quite noticeable on various headphones. Yet its sound is warmer. Its bass has more weight. It is truly more "analog" sounding than THX, its sound is emotional and more lifelike. I love it.
3. THX's level of clarity, detail, transparency is astounding. I was prepared from reading people's reviews but, hey, it's even better than I expected!  It is more analytical than A200, but it is not a drawback as there is nothing dull in its sound whatsoever. Yes, it feels less natural than A200 in a way digital records are less natural than vinyl records, but it still sounds engaging and magical. Instruments, especially live ones, have more overtones than I have ever heard in my records. I love it.
4. THX's build is clearly less solid than A200's, which looks and feels like its German original copy. The feel of the volume pot, the locking XLRs on a back, all little "devil" details are different. A200 weighs much more even if you take into account THX's power brick.

5. Wish I had an amp with THXs clarity and detail and A200s thickness, warmth, and emotional signature. 

* With THX, I have to listen to my Opus 1s on its lowest gain setting since THX's manual states that its third gain position cannot be used with sources having more than 2.1 Vrms output. My Opus has 3.4 Vrms on balanced and 3.1 Vrms on single end outputs.


----------



## bluenight (Jan 28, 2019)

ReAlien said:


> Now that I have heard my current gear in its complete form, I can draw some conclusions.
> 
> 1. THX cannot truly unlock HE560s potential with SE cable.* With XLR cable it has finally shown its true colors.
> 2. Both amps are true performers and without A/B testing it is hard to find any shortcoming in both of them. I am afraid, I'll have to keep both of them instead of selling a loser.
> ...


I could say exactly the same about Lake people RS 02 vs Thx 789. RS 02 being the warmer amp Thx the more analytical more cleaner amp. Most of the times i dont find the Thx too bright only on certain recordings. I can feel Thx is slightly thin at some times. RS 02 more tubey.


----------



## CEE TEE

ReAlien said:


> Now that I have heard my current gear in its complete form, I can draw some conclusions.
> * With THX, I have to listen to my Opus 1s on its lowest gain setting since THX's manual states that its third gain position cannot be used with sources having more than 2.1 Vrms output. My Opus has 3.4 Vrms on balanced and 3.1 Vrms on single end outputs.



Hi ReAlien,
You can use the Massdrop x THX AAA 789 on Gain 2 with 3.4 Vrms and you can also use the Opus with Gain 3 if you lower the digital volume to bring your DAC output to 2.1 Vrms.  
You have a bit more flexibility and can find your optimal settings/combo...hope this helps!


----------



## ReAlien

CEE TEE said:


> Hi ReAlien,
> You can use the Massdrop x THX AAA 789 on Gain 2 with 3.4 Vrms and you can also use the Opus with Gain 3 if you lower the digital volume to bring your DAC output to 2.1 Vrms.
> You have a bit more flexibility and can find your optimal settings/combo...hope this helps!


Yeah, I understand these options, but how will I know when I reached 2.1 Vrms while controlling the volume on my DAP? There is no Vrms meter there.)
I'd prefer to use Gain 3 on THX as I trust its amplification more than my DAP's one, I would like to have as much amplification coming from THX as possible. That is why I stuck with using lowest gain on Opus.


----------



## FlowSik

Just got this amp, it sound amazing when pair with SU8


----------



## ReAlien

I've met a guy today in an audio store who makes handmade custom amps and he really liked my THX's sound clarity. He was amazed that such purity can be attained at 350 USD. He agreed with me that THX somewhat lacks in a sound weight/thickness, though. His immediate advice was to replace stock power source with transformer based power unit with around 4A output instead of current 1.8A, which, in his opinion, would remedy amps Achilles heel. I do understand that such a move would void the warranty but I wonder if would be worth the hassle theoretically?


----------



## elira

ReAlien said:


> I do understand that such a move would void the warranty but I wonder if would be worth the hassle theoretically?


I think it won't have any effect. I don't think the amp is current constrained from the SMPS, you can try a SMPS with higher output current,  it should be safer than a poorly done linear power supply and much cheaper.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I've been listening to my massdrop/nuforce edc3 iems with the thx 789 and they do sound great out of this amp. One thing I do have to say is that even in lowest gain and using a SE Dac with a 2.0-1 vrms max output, the THX 789 still has too much gain for me to be able to listen comfortably while chilling and reading. In order to have a better range of usable volume, I suggest anyone who is planning on using iems with the 789 to purchace an ifi earbuddy. That little gadget is awesome, and comes with very useful add ons besides the earbuddy itself like earplugs, an airline hp adapter and iems case. The $20 price tag for all or that almost comes off as a gift from ifi rather than a purchase. Its really cheap for what you get.

The earbuddy drops the gain about 15db i believe and I cannot detect any change in sound characteristics when using it. Very useful. I do like the pairing of the THX 789, ear buddy, and edc3 iems. Its definately a neutral sound, that has slightly rolled off bass below 30hz, and has a smooth treble extension that is similar to Audeze planars but not as clean. Its like a hybrid between Audeze and Sennheiser sound. great for when I'm spending lots of time on the PC and do not want my glasses to be clamped by my hd6xx.


----------



## BrotherKathos

One thing I can confirm about the THX 789, is that it is definitely vulnerable to static feedback through the headphones. This has manifested itself when using my Audeze lcd2c in balanced out mode while using a SE dac, as well as just now when using my SE iems and a SE dac. THis has happened on two different amps, on different equipment and in different houses. The feedback is so strong when I stand up from my desk, there will be a small pop in the iems and my schiit eitr will even loose the ability to function for a few seconds as it temporary looses the audio feed and led indicator starts flashing. It has even stopped my computer from recognizing the eitr all together until I unplug the usb and plug it back in.

I'm wearing those nylon exercise pants at the moment that are known to generate extra static anyway, so that is obviously part of the problem. It remains that this amp definitely will transfer static charges from your body, through the chassis and signal path all the way to your other components. I have tried the monoprice rca to xlr cables that @AndrewM888 recommended, but they offor no improvement when using SE iems. I am finding it hard to replicate the problem now that I hooked my hd6xx back up to the 789 though. My hd6xx is using a balanced xlr fanmusic cable. So it seems that as long as your entire chain is balanced, you will gain some static resistance. Hopefully this is beneficial to anyone who has noticed any hums with the thx 789. Especially if this humming can be alleviated by touching the case with your hand.


----------



## ReAlien

elira said:


> I think it won't have any effect. I don't think the amp is current constrained from the SMPS, you can try a SMPS with higher output current,  it should be safer than a poorly done linear power supply and much cheaper.


Why would transformer cost cheaper than SMPS? I heard that really good transformers cost significant amounts. Why do you imply that transformer would be poorly done?

To avoid misunderstanding, this guy that I mentioned did not propose to make a custom transformer himself, just some links to transformers I could buy to improve THX sound.


----------



## elira

ReAlien said:


> Why would transformer cost cheaper than SMPS? I heard that really good transformers cost significant amounts. Why do you imply that transformer would be poorly done?
> 
> To avoid misunderstanding, this guy that I mentioned did not propose to make a custom transformer himself, just some links to transformers I could buy to improve THX sound.


You understood it backwards or I wrote it poorly. I tried to say that a SMPS with higher output current would be cheaper. Regarding poorly made LPS, most of the cheap ones are of doubtful quality, and the ones from reputable sources are expensive.


----------



## Fatdoi

A good lps I was looking @ Aliexpress from us$200


----------



## bluenight

BrotherKathos said:


> One thing I can confirm about the THX 789, is that it is definitely vulnerable to static feedback through the headphones. This has manifested itself when using my Audeze lcd2c in balanced out mode while using a SE dac, as well as just now when using my SE iems and a SE dac. THis has happened on two different amps, on different equipment and in different houses. The feedback is so strong when I stand up from my desk, there will be a small pop in the iems and my schiit eitr will even loose the ability to function for a few seconds as it temporary looses the audio feed and led indicator starts flashing. It has even stopped my computer from recognizing the eitr all together until I unplug the usb and plug it back in.
> 
> I'm wearing those nylon exercise pants at the moment that are known to generate extra static anyway, so that is obviously part of the problem. It remains that this amp definitely will transfer static charges from your body, through the chassis and signal path all the way to your other components. I have tried the monoprice rca to xlr cables that @AndrewM888 recommended, but they offor no improvement when using SE iems. I am finding it hard to replicate the problem now that I hooked my hd6xx back up to the 789 though. My hd6xx is using a balanced xlr fanmusic cable. So it seems that as long as your entire chain is balanced, you will gain some static resistance. Hopefully this is beneficial to anyone who has noticed any hums with the thx 789. Especially if this humming can be alleviated by touching the case with your hand.


The only humming i can hear is when only the amp is on. But when i turn on the dac connected with SE rca it dissapears so no problem for me.


----------



## Suopermanni

And latest drop is a pre-order and wait scenario. I'm fortunate I got mine in the last drop.


----------



## alpovs

Yes, it dropped again. Shipping in May.


----------



## MacMan31

So it's $492 + customs fees to get it to Canada. Still worth it?


----------



## alpovs

It's $492 CAD. Why do you keep converting currencies? Even in Canada such things are priced in USD (and converted locally). Compare apples to apples. It's $375 USD including shipping, plus taxes, plus $10 CAD brokerage fee. Is it worth it? You decide.


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> It's $492 CAD. Why do you keep converting currencies? Even in Canada such things are priced in USD (and converted locally). Compare apples to apples. It's $375 USD including shipping, plus taxes, plus $10 CAD brokerage fee. Is it worth it? You decide.



Yes that's what I meant. $492 CAD. Sorry I forgot the CAD part. I convert because I want to know how much it will cost in Canadian dollars.


----------



## ayang02

Seriously, there's no need to repeat the same "is it worth it" question over and over again, what's the point of repeating it? The price of this thing has not changed and you only find more and more people asking about this amp...

But anyways my opinion is: hell yes it's worth it and I'm ready to commit to a Chord Qutest now because of this amp.


----------



## MacMan31

ayang02 said:


> Seriously, there's no need to repeat the same "is it worth it" question over and over again, what's the point of repeating it? The price of this thing has not changed and you only find more and more people asking about this amp...
> 
> But anyways my opinion is: hell yes it's worth it and I'm ready to commit to a Chord Qutest now because of this amp.



Okay then thank you. Seems that Chord gets lots of praise for their DACs. That Qutest is certainly out of my price range though.


----------



## hamison

cant wait for these to drop again


----------



## Luckbad

hamison said:


> cant wait for these to drop again


Accurate. It's been active again for a couple hours!


----------



## hamison

Luckbad said:


> Accurate. It's been active again for a couple hours!



dang i should've went to massdrop first, now i cant wait to receive them


----------



## Suppa92

THX 789 drop is active again


----------



## Fatdoi

MacMan31 said:


> So it's $492 + customs fees to get it to Canada. Still worth it?



Not sure what's your expectation to say is worth it or not.... But based on your hp collection, 789 will drive them very well and maybe you'll need to invest in a balanced cable for the cans


----------



## escalibur

Suppa92 said:


> THX 789 drop is active again



...aaand it's gone.


----------



## spicata

I just made a pre order and is a little curious about how my Aune x1s 10 Anniversary ed. will do as a dac for this?


----------



## Danger (Feb 5, 2019)

I never saw anywhere the drop stating it was a limited run.  Just that it ended Feb. 19th.  I guess I missed that bit of info somehow.  Missdrop.


----------



## DrpsDrpr

I’m guessing they only could accommodate around 500 pre-orders, but I don’t believe that was explicitly stated anywhere on the page, which is a shame.


----------



## ReAlien (Feb 5, 2019)

Danger said:


> I never saw anywhere the drop stating it was a limited run.  Just that it ended Feb. 19th.  I guess I missed that bit of info somehow.  Missdrop.



It's pure capacity mathematics. 10,000 people were standing in that line. In a few hours' time they had taken orders from 500 of lucky among those and now they will produce this batch by May. 9500 people still standing in the queue.

In order to satisfy such a huge demand capacity increase is required.


----------



## Suppa92

escalibur said:


> ...aaand it's gone.


What happened? Did Massdrop sell all the new stock in few minutes? It seems this item is hotter than the tesla model 3.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

they sold out CRAZY fast. im annoyed because i was sitting at my desk all morning doing invoices and i did not get any email from massdrop other then the normal check out these products one. if i had an email it would have popped up on my screen and i would have ordered. i am trying to get 2 units for family members who want one very much. im hoping maybe tomm they will add more. who knows.


----------



## spicata

I did get a mail just now that  me and another 461 persons got a processing order.


----------



## eeagle

I am so glad I impulsively pushed the join button on the 789 back in Nov.

Sadly the economic solution to a supply and demand problem such as this is to raise the price


----------



## Suppa92

eeagle said:


> I am so glad I impulsively pushed the join button on the 789 back in Nov.
> 
> Sadly the economic solution to a supply and demand problem such as this is to raise the price


Was it cheaper before? What was the first at the first time?


----------



## MacMan31

Fatdoi said:


> Not sure what's your expectation to say is worth it or not.... But based on your hp collection, 789 will drive them very well and maybe you'll need to invest in a balanced cable for the cans



I have balance cables on the way. But I just noticed from others here that the drop is already ended. Wonder how long it will be to the next drop?


----------



## Marlowe (Feb 5, 2019)

When I noticed the THX 789 drop was active this morning, my first thought was I would now be spared the numerous unnecessary posts asking the unanswerable (by anyone on this forum) question, "When will this drop again?" Sadly, for both me and many frustrated potential buyers, the respite was all too brief.


----------



## alpovs

MacMan31 said:


> I have balance cables on the way. But I just noticed from others here that the drop is already ended. Wonder how long it will be to the next drop?


Just give up, man  I can't imagine reading "worth it?" every other day until next drop


----------



## MacMan31

alpovs said:


> Just give up, man  I can't imagine reading "worth it?" every other day until next drop



Then don't read my posts.  Either way I don't think I have asked that often. I just want to make sure I would be getting my money's worth that's all. Guess this is one of those long term investment things.


----------



## whohasaquestion (Feb 5, 2019)

How is the pairing between 789 and Grado? Haven't read much about this combo.


----------



## elira

whohasaquestion said:


> How is the pairing between 789 and Grado? Haven't read much about this combo.


It's a good pairing, the 789 has enough current to drive Grados properly. The only issue is that the volume pot is on the cheap side and is not balanced at low levels, so you need to reduce the volume on the DAC or use a DAC with low output.


----------



## BrotherKathos

elira said:


> It's a good pairing, the 789 has enough current to drive Grados properly. The only issue is that the volume pot is on the cheap side and is not balanced at low levels, so you need to reduce the volume on the DAC or use a DAC with low output.



Or you can get a $20 ifi ear buddy for the thx and be able to use any super efficient headphones on the market including iems and not have to worry about adjusting dac volumes or the volume pot


----------



## elira

BrotherKathos said:


> Or you can get a $20 ifi ear buddy for the thx and be able to use any super efficient headphones on the market including iems and not have to worry about adjusting dac volumes or the volume pot


That seems reasonable for single ended headphones, balanced would be too many adapters. Anyway I have no experience with the ear buddy but in theory it should work without much sound degradation.


----------



## whohasaquestion

elira said:


> It's a good pairing, the 789 has enough current to drive Grados properly. The only issue is that the volume pot is on the cheap side and is not balanced at low levels, so you need to reduce the volume on the DAC or use a DAC with low output.



Thanks. I feel like SR325e is bright and very detailed. Does it add something to the sound signature? Or upping another notch of brightness and detail?


----------



## BrotherKathos

elira said:


> That seems reasonable for single ended headphones, balanced would be too many adapters. Anyway I have no experience with the ear buddy but in theory it should work without much sound degradation.




i think most that run balanced cables do it for the power, and in that case the low gain volume issue will not be a factor to begin with. Ear buddy only makes sense for SE applications. Also I have one and notice zero change in sound when using with my thx. It just makes whatever headphones you plug in harder to drive so you get a more usable volume range out of the pot/amp


----------



## Marlowe

MacMan31 said:


> Then don't read my posts.  Either way I don't think I have asked that often. I just want to make sure I would be getting my money's worth that's all. Guess this is one of those long term investment things.


Whether or not you've asked this (unanswerable) question too often is pretty much like deciding whether or not the amp is worth it: it's in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## justrest

How fast it's gone. I missed the drop but next time...


----------



## elira

whohasaquestion said:


> Thanks. I feel like SR325e is bright and very detailed. Does it add something to the sound signature? Or upping another notch of brightness and detail?


It depends what are you using currently. The closest I have to the SR325e are the SR325is, and in fact they lack some low end. Using the 789 you listen the headphones as they are. The 789 is very transparent and Grados are very detailed (as you might have noticed), you will definitely listen your source, be advised that if your source is not high quality you will hear that. If you want to add some coloration you should look elsewhere. I found Grados hard to pair with solid state amps the best amp I have found for them is a WooAudio WA6-SE. In solid state amps the SR325is sound better in my Corda Jazz-ff, my PS500 sound amazing in the PS Audio GCHA, and I haven't found something solid state that pairs nicely with my GS2000e. The THX AAA 789 does an OK work with all my headphones, it's like a jack of all trades, master of none.


----------



## sethkong

Lucky me! What I did the first thing after receiving the e-mail this morning is order the THX AAA 789. Don't hesitate!


----------



## Fatdoi

sethkong said:


> Lucky me! What I did the first thing after receiving the e-mail this morning is order the THX AAA 789. Don't hesitate!



Same with me.. Actually I put down wrong address, canceled it and reordered it... So lucky


----------



## Kamurah

Same here.  I have been waiting on this drop since the last one ended.  This will be my first audiophile-grade headphone amplifier.  I feel really lucky to have gotten in on this one.  
I have a pair of Massdrop HE4xx on the way as well.  A good week.

Sorry to anyone who missed out this time.  I feel certain that the market will demand higher production runs in the future...just sucks to wait.


----------



## eeagle

Suppa92 said:


> Was it cheaper before? What was the first at the first time?



No, they have never been cheaper always $349.99.  MD is good about keeping their prices stable, unlike Amazon where they go up and down daily.  I was simply implying that the demand being so great on this product, one solution would be to raise the price.

Already 789 is bringing $500-600 USD on the ebay used market, and many are asking even more.


----------



## Suppa92

elira said:


> It's a good pairing, the 789 has enough current to drive Grados properly. The only issue is that the volume pot is on the cheap side and is not balanced at low levels, so you need to reduce the volume on the DAC or use a DAC with low output.


Can we expect new batches to have better volume pot? Don't know how massdrop controls the quality of products in case of such minor bugs.


----------



## omniweltall

elira said:


> It's a good pairing, the 789 has enough current to drive Grados properly. The only issue is that the volume pot is on the cheap side and is not balanced at low levels, so you need to reduce the volume on the DAC or use a DAC with low output.


Most potentiometers are like that. That's why they use steppers on higher-end products. The stepper itself may cost as much as the THX 789.


----------



## elira

omniweltall said:


> Most potentiometers are like that. That's why they use steppers on higher-end products. The stepper itself may cost as much as the THX 789.


They could also have a better pot, but I guess that would be also expensive. The easy cheap way would be to have a lower gain. I find that most amplifiers have too much gain, but there are some headphones that need a lot of gain. I would really love a version of the THX AAA 789 with 100 steps of discrete volume control like the NFB-1AMP.


----------



## omniweltall

That definitely would be nice. But Im quite happy with the THX 789 for what it is. 

I was searching for a complementary SS that is powerful and wouldnt break the bank. This fits just nicely.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I have to say that using a tube buffer before the thx 789 is a great way to tame a dac that one might find too bright for their tastes. I've been using a SMSL M9 dac with the thx and have tried various tweaks to tame its delta sigma glare, but the tube buffer absolutely did the trick, and the funny thing is it costed me the least amount of money. Go figure. I'm definitely in heresy territory now hehe. I've got both a schiit loki and the tube buffer before the thx lol. But I'm lovin it!


----------



## whohasaquestion (Feb 7, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> I have to say that using a tube buffer before the thx 789 is a great way to tame a dac that one might find too bright for their tastes. I've been using a SMSL M9 dac with the thx and have tried various tweaks to tame its delta sigma glare, but the tube buffer absolutely did the trick, and the funny thing is it costed me the least amount of money. Go figure. I'm definitely in heresy territory now hehe. I've got both a schiit loki and the tube buffer before the thx lol. But I'm lovin it!



NVM. I understand the diff now.


----------



## BrotherKathos

whohasaquestion said:


> You mean like a tube preamp?
> 
> So Dac > Tube > THX > Headphones? So presumably you could have 3 upstream devices with volume control?



Yes, I'm using my Dac> Tube preamp/buffer > Loki Eq > THX 789.  I set the volume on the tube pre-amp so that amp gain remains pretty much the same. Only have the tube buffer at around 10:00 which seems to be right. I usually can't listen past 12:00 on gain 1 and this is still th case with the tube preamp in the chain. Its very nice imo. Took the glare away completely. Now unfortunately I will have to buy more tube preamps for my other rigs, as they have become critical.... D*** this hobby is expensive and seemingly never-ending.... Where's my giant flying dragon dog!?


----------



## sethkong

Since the provided DC power supply is the swtiching type, what do you think if I change it to the linear type or use iFi DC iPurifier? Will the improvement be worth to invest?


----------



## ReAlien

BrotherKathos said:


> Yes, I'm using my Dac> Tube preamp/buffer > Loki Eq > THX 789.  I set the volume on the tube pre-amp so that amp gain remains pretty much the same. Only have the tube buffer at around 10:00 which seems to be right. I usually can't listen past 12:00 on gain 1 and this is still th case with the tube preamp in the chain. Its very nice imo. Took the glare away completely. Now unfortunately I will have to buy more tube preamps for my other rigs, as they have become critical.... D*** this hobby is expensive and seemingly never-ending.... Where's my giant flying dragon dog!?


Which tube preamp you're using? I was planning to buy me one as per advice from my friend. But his is a very old model, so maybe you can advise something newer and still on an inexpensive side?


----------



## ReAlien

sethkong said:


> Since the provided DC power supply is the swtiching type, what do you think if I change it to the linear type or use iFi DC iPurifier? Will the improvement be worth to invest?


I asked the same question on Amir's forum and was told unilaterally that there is no use to do that. Yet I'm still gonna try.) I've already bought myself an old Soviet liner amp with voltage adjustment to match 24V of THX.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Feb 8, 2019)

ReAlien said:


> Which tube preamp you're using? I was planning to buy me one as per advice from my friend. But his is a very old model, so maybe you can advise something newer and still on an inexpensive side?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DVXVZ51/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been pleased with it. The NOS GE tubes are working well. I'm using it with a 12v ifi ipower as well, but that makes the total price double so unless you get any random hiss or noise issues its not needed and might not even fix those. I already had it lying around so have not even tried it with the stock wallwart. Probably zero difference or extremely ridiculously small one between the two honestly. In any case its nice and silent in the chain with no hiss or hum and does a great job of taming the glare of my dac.

Really good at smoothing out all those s****y recordings that are becoming all to common nowadays.


----------



## BrotherKathos

The stack is starting to resemble a skyscraper lol







ReAlien said:


> I asked the same question on Amir's forum and was told unilaterally that there is no use to do that. Yet I'm still gonna try.) I've already bought myself an old Soviet liner amp with voltage adjustment to match 24V of THX.


I think the oem engineer warned against anything but the stock unit for some kind of special reason. So make absolutely sure your ps is going to be ok. Maybe reach out to @AndrewM888 to make sure the ifi dc purification or lps is safe. You don’t want to pop your amp especially given their limited availability.


----------



## ReAlien

BrotherKathos said:


> The stack is starting to resemble a skyscraper lol
> 
> 
> I think the oem engineer warned against anything but the stock unit for some kind of special reason. So make absolutely sure your ps is going to be ok. Maybe reach out to @AndrewM888 to make sure the ifi dc purification or lps is safe. You don’t want to pop your amp especially given their limited availability.


Thanks, just wrote Andrew to ask about the PS I'm goona try.

Your preamp looks very affarodable but wish it were balanced...


----------



## BrotherKathos

ReAlien said:


> Thanks, just wrote Andrew to ask about the PS I'm goona try.
> 
> Your preamp looks very affarodable but wish it were balanced...



Balaced would cost more. Plus its not really needed for the majority of people. I'm using some monoprice rcs to xlr cables Andrew Mason recommended and they work great. They give you the hum and static resistance of balanced while being able to hook to cheaper SE equipment. You only need balanced interconnects for long studio cable runs. That is not really a factor for the vast majority of us with desktop computer systems. For instance my rca cables are anywhere from 6 inches to 1.5 feet max in my setup. Way too short to run into problems unless something really janky is going on.


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> I have to say that using a tube buffer before the thx 789 is a great way to tame a dac that one might find too bright for their tastes. I've been using a SMSL M9 dac with the thx and have tried various tweaks to tame its delta sigma glare, but the tube buffer absolutely did the trick, and the funny thing is it costed me the least amount of money. Go figure. I'm definitely in heresy territory now hehe. I've got both a schiit loki and the tube buffer before the thx lol. But I'm lovin it!


That's how I use it. Schiit Saga.


----------



## omniweltall (May 6, 2021)

BrotherKathos said:


> Yes, I'm using my Dac> Tube preamp/buffer > Loki Eq > THX 789.  I set the volume on the tube pre-amp so that amp gain remains pretty much the same. Only have the tube buffer at around 10:00 which seems to be right. I usually can't listen past 12:00 on gain 1 and this is still th case with the tube preamp in the chain. Its very nice imo. Took the glare away completely. Now unfortunately I will have to buy more tube preamps for my other rigs, as they have become critical.... D*** this hobby is expensive and seemingly never-ending.... Where's my giant flying dragon dog!?


You use the pre-amp before the Loki? I thought the Loki comes after the DAC and before the pre-amp.


----------



## ayang02

BrotherKathos said:


> The stack is starting to resemble a skyscraper lol
> 
> 
> I think the oem engineer warned against anything but the stock unit for some kind of special reason. So make absolutely sure your ps is going to be ok. Maybe reach out to @AndrewM888 to make sure the ifi dc purification or lps is safe. You don’t want to pop your amp especially given their limited availability.



I remember in the Massdrop thread some alternative power bricks were suggested by others and Andrew said they were okay to be used according to their published specs. Not sure how much better those bricks are...

On another note, I recently plugged my 789 into one of those surge-protecter/power strip and boy that filtered a lot of dynamics and details out of my music, bad idea. That got me thinking about what improvements I can make to my setup on the electrical power side. I decided to try out a different power cord made by a local shop (ATL plugs and cables, looks like an audiophile equipment lol) and that seems to improve the sound stage and dynamics compared to the stock cable. At least this is my initial impression comparing the two cords back and forth.


----------



## AndrewM888

ReAlien said:


> I asked the same question on Amir's forum and was told unilaterally that there is no use to do that. Yet I'm still gonna try.) I've already bought myself an old Soviet liner amp with voltage adjustment to match 24V of THX.


The amp requires a regulated 24 Vdc +/- 5%, with 1.8 A supply current. Don't use unregulated types of LPS on it.


----------



## ReAlien

AndrewM888 said:


> The amp requires a regulated 24 Vdc +/- 5%, with 1.8 A supply current. Don't use unregulated types of LPS on it.



Dear Andrew, thank you for your reply. The power source I have bought is regulated LPS (germanium stabilizer inside) with an adjustable voltage from 0 to 30V, and 2A supply current. I have sent you a private message with specs for it, did you see it?


----------



## alpovs

BrotherKathos said:


> I've been using a SMSL M9 dac with the thx and have tried various tweaks to tame its delta sigma glare


Fix the root of your problems - get a multibit DAC.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Feb 8, 2019)

alpovs said:


> Fix the root of your problems - get a multibit DAC.


I've got a multibit dac, this one was an experiment due to its great equipment spec as well as the price. Dual akm 4490s in a balaced dac for less than $140. Kinda hard to beat at the price. Normally $450 on Amazon.
The tube buffer and M9 dac I have now is absolutely superior imo to the mimby I own, while still being almost $60 cheaper than the little schiit.

But I think the mimby on its own is way more to my preference then the smsl M9.

I'm probably going to add a tube buffer to my other rig that has a mimby, thx 789, eitr, and loki. Looking forward to hearing that with my Audeze lcd2c in the chain.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> Wait...you use the pre-amp before the Loki?? Strange. I thought the Loki comes after the DAC and before the pre-amp.


Yea, as far as I know it would not really matter whether its before or after the loki. after the loki is tubing the eq sound, and before it the loki will eq the tube sound. I guess its just a preference?


----------



## sethkong

Thanks for every comment!
I have DarkVoice, and its sound is dramatically improved after I upgraded the power supply system with iFi iPurifier AC, Weiduka power filter, and Pangea power cable. So, I am thinking about using iFi iPurifier DC with the THX 789. However, the result of the measurement by _amrim_ (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/) shows the superb clarity of the THX 789 even with the stock power supply. So, I am not sure if there is any room left to improve. If not, it will not be worth to invest.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> Wait...you use the pre-amp before the Loki?? Strange. I thought the Loki comes after the DAC and before the pre-amp.


I just tried the buffer after the loki, and I might prefer it before. Not really sure though. Too close too call.


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> I just tried the buffer after the loki, and I might prefer it before. Not really sure though. Too close too call.


Aint about how it sounds. I thought it was supposed to be before the pre amp. But if it works, it works.


----------



## whohasaquestion

Curious what single-ended pass does on THX 789? What is its usage scenario?  Same for auto off/bypass switch...is it just to bypass THX789 as a unit?


----------



## elira

whohasaquestion said:


> Curious what single-ended pass does on THX 789? What is its usage scenario?  Same for auto off/bypass switch...is it just to bypass THX789 as a unit?


The single ended pass is just for daisy chaining another device to the RCA input, you can connect another amp, but it only works for the RCA input. The auto off/bypass switch is for disabling the auto off feature, the auto off turns off the amp after some minutes if nothing is playing.


----------



## whohasaquestion (Feb 13, 2019)

elira said:


> The single ended pass is just for daisy chaining another device to the RCA input, you can connect another amp, but it only works for the RCA input. The auto off/bypass switch is for disabling the auto off feature, the auto off turns off the amp after some minutes if nothing is playing.



So what's the common scenario for daisy chaining an rca input?


----------



## elira

whohasaquestion said:


> So what's the common scenario for daisy chaining an rca input?


Connect two amps to the same RCA source without needing an RCA splitter.


----------



## Kamurah

I don't know what the common scenario is, but I will tell you how I plan to use mine....

Source -> DAC -> 789 -> RCA pass through to Tube amp.

Since the 789 is such a clean amp, I plan to use a colored amp via the pass through to have both clean and colored options.


----------



## whohasaquestion

Kamurah said:


> I don't know what the common scenario is, but I will tell you how I plan to use mine....
> 
> Source -> DAC -> 789 -> RCA pass through to Tube amp.
> 
> Since the 789 is such a clean amp, I plan to use a colored amp via the pass through to have both clean and colored options.



So it's more for switching amps on the fly?


----------



## ayang02 (Feb 13, 2019)

Just got a Chord Qutest to pair with the THX AAA 789. The Qutest just blows the Mojo away, plain and simple. Better resolution, sound stage, dynamics, micro details, and pretty much everything else.

It took me a very long time to choose between the Qutest and the ADI-2, both are pretty awesome. In the end I opted for simplicity and went with the Qutest.


----------



## ReAlien

whohasaquestion said:


> So it's more for switching amps on the fly?


You can connect your speakers amp in such way so that you can switch between headphones and speakers without disconnecting cables.


----------



## mixman

What would be the best way for me to hook up the THX with my RME ADI-2 and my Adam A5X monitors? So far I find going from the RME to the THX balanced sounds best, at least for my headphones. I would then have to use the RCA outs on the RME to my Adam's. Is this right? I have been told because the THX is not a fully balanced unit, it would be better for me to use the SE input on the THX, not the balance one.


----------



## elira

mixman said:


> What would be the best way for me to hook up the THX with my RME ADI-2 and my Adam A5X monitors? So far I find going from the RME to the THX balanced sounds best, at least for my headphones. I would then have to use the RCA outs on the RME to my Adam's. Is this right? I have been told because the THX is not a fully balanced unit, it would be better for me to use the SE input on the THX, not the balance one.


I think it has been stated multiple times that XLR is the best input for the THX. You can use an XLR splitter and connect both via XLR.


----------



## music joe

whohasaquestion said:


> Curious what single-ended pass does on THX 789? What is its usage scenario?  Same for auto off/bypass switch...is it just to bypass THX789 as a unit?



The input rca's are *parallel linked to output pass through rca pair.*  A nice convenience if your DAC of choice has only one pair of rca outputs. This allows running a DAC with only one output  rca set to another device without plugging and unplugging cables  The pass through rca pair output on the  THX789 skips the THX789 circuits and volume control completely.
Good for another playback chain ... maybe you want a preamp running powered monitors .. or integrated amplifier driving bookshelf loudspeakers ... second headphone rig off the same DAC perhaps.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 14, 2019)

elira said:


> I think it has been stated multiple times that XLR is the best input for the THX. You can use an XLR splitter and connect both via XLR.



The 789 is not a balanced amplifier. The XLR input uses a special circuit called "Summing" circuit to reduce a balanced signal to single ended before final amplification. This circuit runs the signal though multiple additional Op-amps. Better to use single ended input and balanced output. Though, hard pressed to tell the difference really. Do whatever is convenient. Though it's possible one could in fact enjoy the additional coloration provided by the summing process.

In single ended mode the 789 is a discrete amplifier, however in balanced input mode it uses opa1602 in conversion process. Some may "prefer" the signal running though OPA1602, it is an excellent op-amp, and may impart some extra warmth.


----------



## AndrewM888

MikeW said:


> The 789 is not a balanced amplifier. The XLR input uses a special circuit called "Summing" circuit to reduce a balanced signal to single ended before final amplification. This circuit runs the signal though multiple additional Op-amps. Better to use single ended input and balanced output. Though, hard pressed to tell the difference really. Do whatever is convenient. Though it's possible one could in fact enjoy the additional coloration provided by the summing process.
> 
> In single ended mode the 789 is a discrete amplifier, however in balanced input mode it uses opa1602 in conversion process. Some may "prefer" the signal running though OPA1602, it is an excellent op-amp, and may impart some extra warmth.


Respectfully, the above contains a lot of inaccuracy. Here are the simple rules of thumb with 789:
INPUT: In short, 789 is slightly better from noise pickup point of view if you use the Bal XLR input if your DAC has it. If unavailable, instead use 789 RCA unbal input with short 1ft cables and don't sweat it. The noise and THD performance are still exceptional.
OUTPUT: You can use TRS or XLR-4 output REGARDLESS of which input connectors you're using. Advantages of using Bal out are a bit lower crosstalk (since 4-wire is better connector than TRS), and Bal out has double the voltage = 4x (6dB) more power. But again, if your headphone doesn't support Bal 4-pin XLR, don't sweat it! TRS out is still exceptionally clean and quite powerful on this amp.


----------



## XERO1

ayang02 said:


> Just got a Chord Qutest to pair with the THX AAA 789. The Qutest just blows the Mojo away, plain and simple. Better resolution, sound stage, dynamics, micro details, and pretty much everything else.


Better put on some shades. You're gonna need 'em.


----------



## ayang02

XERO1 said:


> Better put on some shades. You're gonna need 'em.



As in, this might be a bright pairing? I don't know, I actually don't notice any sibiliance with the Qutest & THX 789 pairing at all but again that's using the Audeze LCD2 Closed-back.

I'll try using the Sennheiser HD700s to see if I notice any brightness.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ayang02 said:


> As in, this might be a bright pairing? I don't know, I actually don't notice any sibiliance with the Qutest & THX 789 pairing at all but again that's using the Audeze LCD2 Closed-back.
> 
> I'll try using the Sennheiser HD700s to see if I notice any brightness.


I think he was joking with you bc of Chord's crazy design aesthetics. All the weird colored leds and weird avant-garde post modern art cases


----------



## ayang02

BrotherKathos said:


> I think he was joking with you bc of Chord's crazy design aesthetics. All the weird colored leds and weird avant-garde post modern art cases



LOL oh yes, I totally missed that. Those balls are bright; one of the first things I did with the Qutest was to dim those damn balls and set output to 2V RMS.


----------



## BrotherKathos

ayang02 said:


> LOL oh yes, I totally missed that. Those balls are bright; one of the first things I did with the Qutest was to dim those damn balls and set output to 2V RMS.



Its cool to see you like the thx with the Qutest. I've actually considered that dac as well. I've got the lcd2c. I'm most likely going to either get a gungir or yggdrasil though for the next dac. Or maybe a Metrum Onyx.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 15, 2019)

AndrewM888 said:


> Respectfully, the above contains a lot of inaccuracy. Here are the simple rules of thumb with 789:
> INPUT: In short, 789 is slightly better from noise pickup point of view if you use the Bal XLR input if your DAC has it. If unavailable, instead use 789 RCA unbal input with short 1ft cables and don't sweat it. The noise and THD performance are still exceptional.
> OUTPUT: You can use TRS or XLR-4 output REGARDLESS of which input connectors you're using. Advantages of using Bal out are a bit lower crosstalk (since 4-wire is better connector than TRS), and Bal out has double the voltage = 4x (6dB) more power. But again, if your headphone doesn't support Bal 4-pin XLR, don't sweat it! TRS out is still exceptionally clean and quite powerful on this amp.



Which part is inaccurate? The part were summed balance signal go’s a bunch of extra conversion stages ? Xlr is a studio standard developed for 100 foot runs, you think there will be noise in 6 inch of unbalanced wire? Interesting...the balanced input on thx 789 is there for convenience only, don’t kid yourself


----------



## XERO1 (Feb 15, 2019)

ayang02 said:


> As in, this might be a bright pairing? I don't know, I actually don't notice any sibiliance with the Qutest & THX 789 pairing at all but again that's using the Audeze LCD2 Closed-back.
> 
> I'll try using the Sennheiser HD700s to see if I notice any brightness.


The LCD-2CC is pretty mellow in the highs, so you should be OK.

But the HD 700?!


----------



## ayang02

XERO1 said:


> The LCD-2CC is pretty mellow in the highs, so you should be OK.
> 
> But the HD 700?!



I think the HD700 treble issue is overblown but I did get some Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin earpads for the HD700 a few months ago. According to Dekoni's FR measurements, the treble spike is still there but less noticeable to my ears, I guess due to elevated mids and lows from their earpads. Prior to the earpad change, I really only notice the harshness every once in a while.

Well I did listen to the HD700 using the Chord Qutest & THX 789 for an hour today and I think it's alright. Definitely brighter than LCD2-CB with less prominent mids, but nothing really sounded harsh to me. With this setup, I prefer using the LCD2-CB over HD700 but won't hesitate to use either headphones .


----------



## domho7

Hi ppl I am using the Lcd2 fazer and am contemplating getting smsl su8 and thx 789 will it be able to drive the Lcd2 well. Tks.


----------



## omniweltall (May 6, 2021)

The 789 drives the LCD just fine. Dont worry abt 789 power. It has lots of power for its size.


----------



## domho7

Tks omniweltal for the assurance.
Will check around for price


----------



## eeagle

domho7 said:


> Hi ppl I am using the Lcd2 fazer and am contemplating getting smsl su8 and thx 789 will it be able to drive the Lcd2 well. Tks.



My hardest to drive HP is the HiFiMan HE560 w/sensitivity of 90 db and the main reason for my 789 acquisition; it does require the gain 3 selection and easily driven to comfortable listening levels at the 9-10 oclock position using balanced output/XLR cable.

The LCD-2 fazor has a sensitivity of 101 db so you should have no problem driving them with this amp.

The SU-8 was my DAC of choice as well and the whole combo makes for the ultimate versatility IMO.


----------



## peterq

I found bass of 789 is too soft and treble is a bit bright,  this is the reason I sold mine.


----------



## tamleo

peterq said:


> I found bass of 789 is too soft and treble is a bit bright,  this is the reason I sold mine.


Soft bass is really an irritating thing. That was what I found when using a tube amp called Vali 2. Sold the amp after a few weeks


----------



## Snitte77

Anyone knows if the bakanced SDAC from MD will come back? Would be a good match to the 789.

Anyone joined to first drop?


----------



## MikeW

Considering the 789 is not a balanced amplifier. And actually loses performance with balanced input, (technically for sure, audibly? not likely) It seems like needless feature, if your goal is a dac for 789.


----------



## Snitte77

MikeW said:


> Considering the 789 is not a balanced amplifier. And actually loses performance with balanced input. It seems like needless feature, if your goal is a dac for 789.



How does it loose performance when using balanced inputs?


----------



## MikeW (Feb 23, 2019)

The 789 is a single ended amplfier, and the balanced portion on the input is there for convenience only. When a balanced signal enters the 789 it go's though a special circuit called "summing" circuit that reduces the balanced signal to single ended before amplification. This circuit introduces various parts and OP-AMPS, that are otherwise bypassed in single ended input. The 789's amplification section is actually discrete and uses no op-amp in signal path, however if you use the summing circuit your now introducing op-amps. The summing circuit is well-implemented, and likely adds no significant loss in sound quality. But it's certainly not superior, and you gain nothing.

All this said, the OUTPUT section is different, and indeed the balanced headphone out is the best output method.


----------



## Snitte77

What signal will than be outputed by the XLR?


----------



## MikeW (Feb 23, 2019)

The balanced output is superior to single ended in this implementation. Ideal use case for 789 is Single ended input and balanced output. If you want a balanced DAC go for it, but realize there will be zero performance gain when used with the 789. Also realize that cheap balanced dac's are often times Summed as well, and one must pay attention to make sure the product is truly balanced, aka differential, or your just spinning your wheels. For example, balanced sections of cheap pro-audio gear, sub 200$ products rarely are balanced. The presence of XLR connector's alone does not mean balanced. Though they will work for their intended purpose of cancelling noise on long 100+ ft runs of wire.

The truth is the balanced input and output of the 789 is of great convenience, and is a nice feature to have, and the amp is so well designed that the performance compromise is likely inaudible. The issue arises when someone believe's there is benefit to balanced input and spends extra money on it.

There are products that are in fact balanced, that are merely competitive and don't exceed or even meet the technical performance of the 789. The Jotunheim is a truly balanced device and falls into this category. The Monoprice liquid platinum is also a properly balanced device.


----------



## Snitte77

DAC = RME ADI-2 > balanced into 789 > balanced into > Ether C Flow


----------



## MikeW

Snitte77 said:


> What signal will than be outputed by the XLR?



The 789 outputs balanced XLR headphone out, regardless of input method. SE to balanced out is functional.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 23, 2019)

Snitte77 said:


> DAC = RME ADI-2 > balanced into 789 > balanced into > Ether C Flow



The ideal would be RME SE > 789 > balanced out to phones.

Though, honestly if you've got an ADI-2 the entire 789 is mostly redundant piece of gear as it does not significantly outperform the ADI-2 headamp. Unless you actually need the additional power provided by the 789. I'd give the ADI-2 headamp a serious listen, don't know if you've got a Balanced to SE adapter for your Ether C.  You may be able to reduce your gear down a bit. While 1.5 Watts into 32 ohms is modest, it's quite adequate for 90% of today's phones, and would have been Summit-fi 15 years ago.

Interestingly enough the exact same OP-AMP's used in THX 789's summing circuit are used in a 3 per channel implementation to drive the head-amp of the RME-ADI-2 DAC. OPA1602.


----------



## Snitte77

THX for your thoughts Mike!


----------



## audiobean

It may have been covered but didn’t happen to spot it, does anyone have any idea how the JDS Labs performs against the 789?
Are they very similar and it comes down to xlr vs rca increasing output)? Or are the treble/mids/bass affected by the amps?


----------



## MikeW (Feb 25, 2019)

Which one? Atom or el amp, the atom is probably the best sounding 100$ amp right now compared to magni and spark, it also measures extremely well. However with “only” 1 watt into 32 ohms it’s really not in the same ball park as THX 789. And the element is only 1.5 watt, respectively, which is enough for most, but the 789 is 6 watts.

Not sure how they compare sonically when driving appropriate loads.


----------



## audiobean

MikeW said:


> Which one? Atom or el amp, the atom is probably the best sounding 100$ amp right now compared to magni and spark, it also measures extremely well. However with “only” 1 watt into 32 ohms it’s really not in the same ball park as THX 789. And the element is only 1.5 watt, respectively, which is enough for most, but the 789 is 6 watts.
> 
> Not sure how they compare sonically when driving appropriate loads.



The Atom. I understand now. So the potential of the 300 ohm headphones wouldn’t be realized because of the 1 watt?
Sonic differences would be based on the impedance of a headphone? That puts the 789 above because it can cover a wide variety of headphones. But should perform sonically about the same assuming impedance matching.
Amplifying without distortion and getting outta the way so the heaphodone can do it’s thing is the goal...it seems these two can do it well.


----------



## escalibur

Any sings of the upcoming drop? :/


----------



## ReAlien

escalibur said:


> Any sings of the upcoming drop? :/


As far as I understand, there will be no drop till the last drop is executed, that will be in May only.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Hey ReAlien, how do you compare your Accurate Audio to your THX amp? The Accurate is a Vioeletric clone correct? Wondering if it's a decent amp or just a cheap knock off.


----------



## ReAlien

Relaxasaurus said:


> Hey ReAlien, how do you compare your Accurate Audio to your THX amp? The Accurate is a Vioeletric clone correct? Wondering if it's a decent amp or just a cheap knock off.



Yes, it's a clone of Violectric HPA-V200. I have not listened to the original so I cannot judge a copy properly. Otherwise, I liked its sound very much. But in direct comparison to THX, during more than a month of rotational play, I decided to keep THX. THX's sound resolution and clarity are superior to A200. It just provides more musical information than A200. Yet A200 has on its side more natural sounding timbres and "thickness" of sound and bass in particular. It provides more tube-like experience while THX is more pristine in its approach. But don't get me wrong, A200's level of clarity is quite high as well. It's just the comparison to THX that makes it look less "airy". It is a very quality amp both in sound and production. It feels much more expensive than THX, volume knob is better by far. Yet I decided to sell it to finance a stationary DAC for my system and a simple tube preamp.


----------



## Spareribs (Feb 28, 2019)

Good stuff. It’s gonna be the end game amp for you guys!!!


----------



## franz12

Does anyone know how the massdrop 789 differs from the monoprice dac 788 combo?


----------



## Marlowe (Feb 28, 2019)

I'm sure that someone with more technical expertise than me can give a better answer, but as I understand it: the 789 has considerably more power; the 789 was completely designed by THX while the 788 is Monoprice designed with (I believe) some licensed tech from THX, which had some (it's vague) design input; the 789 did extremely well in objective tests on ASR, the 788 not so much (though my guess is that subjective listening would be far closer). The 788 also has a number of features (like EQ and DSP) that IMO is money wasting crap--YMMV of course. That said I guess (and it's only that--I've only heard the 789) that for most people and with most headphones, either would do a fine job. The 788 costs a third more for less power and a DAC you way not need or want while the 789's availability is likely to be very limited at least in the near term.


----------



## Fatdoi

Has anyone rid of the brick and connected 789 to linear psu?


----------



## boxster233

MikeW said:


> Which part is inaccurate? The part were summed balance signal go’s a bunch of extra conversion stages ? Xlr is a studio standard developed for 100 foot runs, you think there will be noise in 6 inch of unbalanced wire? Interesting...the balanced input on thx 789 is there for convenience only, don’t kid yourself



Why didn’t this debate continue? Mike vs Thx 789


----------



## MikeW

There is no debate to be had. Debate water is wet.. and there is no "mike vs thx 789". It's a great amp and well worth it's 350$ asking price as stated. It's also best when used single ended input and balanced output. It's also not worth more then 350$, especially used, fair used value is more like 280$. MD will make tens of thousands and they will be available to anyone in due time for less then a nite on the town with your lady. There's no debate here, just facts.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Fatdoi said:


> Has anyone rid of the brick and connected 789 to linear psu?



While some gear with less performance has much to gain by improving it's power supply. The THX789 measures so well, that I don't think there's any improvement to be had, certainly none that would be audible. This thread is so full of misinformation and old audiophile nonsense. We are seeing Switch mode power supplies in much higher end designs these days and this LPS or death schiit needs to stop...

Nerochrome HPA1
Monoprice Liquid Platinum
THX 789
ADI-2 Dac Fs
Anything made by Chord

There are others, but the above are examples of excellent power design, none of the above products gain anything from a LPS. Not to say nothing does, for example the Brooklyn Dac has obviously inferior design and does indeed gain substantially from the addition of LPS, but only because the engineering dpt dropped the ball. Dave's probably the best dac on the planet.. switch mode power supply.. Modi 3 is best modi yet.. switch mode power supply. I own the Liquid Platinum and ADI-2 and they are the best gear i've ever heard, and i've had plenty of gear in the past with fancy LPS, all easily outdone by this pair. Not only is the absence of a LPS not a factor for their performance, it allows them to be cheaper, and cost that would otherwise be wasted on power supply can be applied in more important area's, also a dramatic reduction in space.. Liquid platinum is fully balanced (like for real, not fake thx789 balanced) amp and it's tiny, as is ADI-2. Could probably fit a pair of both into a Yggdrasil chassis, also runs cooler without power supply built into chassis.


----------



## domho7

Hi all. 
What xmos base dac would u recommend to go with the 789. Tks


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

what's your budget? Grace sdac and SMSL SU-8 Rev2 get decent reviews. Both xmos usb chipset. SMSL VMV D1 is a higher end option that uses xmos.


----------



## ReAlien (Mar 1, 2019)

Fatdoi said:


> Has anyone rid of the brick and connected 789 to linear psu?


I just did recently. It was a custom made linear PS on a basis of some old Soviet lab-level PS with great stabilization stage and voltage level fine tuning. Maybe attempting it with more audiophile and expensive PS would bring some other results, Idk.
My impressions:

Advantages:  more punchy and massive bass, on some tracks the music started to feel more emotional, in some cases, pleasant mids coloration occurred, more forward staging overall.
Disadvantages: decreased sound resolution and "airiness", the bass becomes messier, less controlled, which in most cases feels like a minus, some overtones disappear that I can hear with stock PSU, sometimes it's just more discomforting to listen overall

Out of 7 testing tracks, only one sounded more pleasing and interesting, a couple of tracks brought some mixed feelings and the rest definitely sounded worse.

As you can understand, I decided to use the stock one.)


----------



## MikeW

Your impressions on advantages: emotion, mid coloration, forward staging, AKA distortion.


----------



## ReAlien

MikeW said:


> There is no debate to be had. Debate water is wet.. and there is no "mike vs thx 789". It's a great amp and well worth it's 350$ asking price as stated. It's also best when used single ended input and balanced output. It's also not worth more then 350$, especially used, fair used value is more like 280$. MD will make tens of thousands and they will be available to anyone in due time for less then a nite on the town with your lady. There's no debate here, just facts.


It's from 600 to 800 USD on ebay now, man.)


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

I said fair value, not dumbass zeos pantera hype value. If you want to pay 800 more power to you, the value will drop faster then a new car. Just toss money out the window everyday. There are stupidly better amps for 800 freaking dollars. It's good man, but you can buy 1200$-1500$ amps on the used market for 800$.

Someone in the ADI-2 thread recently bought one to pair with his ADI-2, and ended up prefering the ADI-2's built in head amp.. Many have sold there's already in favor of Liquid Plat, some prefer Jotunheim even.. 200$ all day used. Once the next drop is delivered you'll see another wave of them F/S as people get it and try it and realize it's not as great as they thought, or are underwhelmed. So that's my advice for people looking to score one, wait couple weeks after next drop is delivered.


----------



## ReAlien

MikeW said:


> Your impressions on advantages: emotion, mid coloration, forward staging, AKA distortion.


That's my guess as well.  That's why I plan to buy some tube preamp to play with tube rolling and not roll PSUs.


----------



## MikeW

Tube preamp is a great idea, as is EQ.


----------



## Fatdoi

ReAlien said:


> I just did recently. It was a custom made linear PS on a basis of some old Soviet lab-level PS with great stabilization stage and voltage level fine tuning. Maybe attempting it with more audiophile and expensive PS would bring some other results, Idk.
> My impressions:
> 
> Advantages:  more punchy and massive bass, on some tracks the music started to feel more emotional, in some cases, pleasant mids coloration occurred, more forward staging overall.
> ...



Thanks for the comment, quite a few ideas I can look into...


----------



## domho7

MikeW said:


> what's your budget? Grace sdac and SMSL SU-8 Rev2 get decent reviews. Both xmos usb chipset. SMSL VMV D1 is a higher end option that uses xmos.


I am OK with 2k budget for a gd dac


----------



## BrotherKathos

domho7 said:


> I am OK with 2k budget for a gd dac


Metrum Onyx or Schiit Gungir Multibit are great options and both on my short list of next dacs.


----------



## domho7

OK tks noted.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

domho7 said:


> I am OK with 2k budget for a gd dac


RME ADI-2 DAC is a great option, not sure if it has xmos or not


----------



## domho7

Relaxasaurus said:


> RME ADI-2 DAC is a great option, not sure if it has xmos or not


I have written to them and their reply no xmos they using their own drivers.
I am using A&K SR15 and can have handshake compatibility with xmos dac.


----------



## BrotherKathos

domho7 said:


> I have written to them and their reply no xmos they using their own drivers.
> I am using A&K SR15 and can have handshake compatibility with xmos dac.



Its really going to depend on what sound you are after. The RME ADI 2 is going to sound very similar to most delta sigma dacs even at the $100 price point, but will have more detail, and better imaging. It will still have the sharp zing of the delta sigmas though. The schiit multibit options will be a bit smoother, but will still have good musicality and the gungir will have a bit of a v shaped response with slightly recessed mids with the Yggdrasil being a bit more sharp and detailed. The Onyx will have the most linear, natural and non fatiguing sound, but to some will come off as plain and less engaging if they like certain boosted frequency ranges. This is info I've gathered from various impressions of people who have owned them all and compared. I'm personally leaning towards the Oynx, but I like a very linear and natural sound and don't care much for added 'detail' or boosted bass since I'm pairing the Onyx to some Audeze planars that have bass like no other hp anyway.


----------



## MikeW

Fatdoi said:


> Thanks for the comment, quite a few ideas I can look into...



The best idea is to not put 8000$ rims on 1993 civic. Just buy a Lamborghini from start.


----------



## MikeW

BrotherKathos said:


> Its really going to depend on what sound you are after. The RME ADI 2 is going to sound very similar to most delta sigma dacs even at the $100 price point, but will have more detail, and better imaging. It will still have the sharp zing of the delta sigmas though. The schiit multibit options will be a bit smoother, but will still have good musicality and the gungir will have a bit of a v shaped response with slightly recessed mids with the Yggdrasil being a bit more sharp and detailed. The Onyx will have the most linear, natural and non fatiguing sound, but to some will come off as plain and less engaging if they like certain boosted frequency ranges. This is info I've gathered from various impressions of people who have owned them all and compared. I'm personally leaning towards the Oynx, but I like a very linear and natural sound and don't care much for added 'detail' or boosted bass since I'm pairing the Onyx to some Audeze planars that have bass like no other hp anyway.



He needs xmos interface specifically so anything other then that is a non-starter. You should not compare 100$ DS to end game DS in this way
Either, it’s a bit disengenous. Like saying a Yggy will sounds like a 250$ modi multibit. 

DO not underestimate the extreme flexibility and customization an option like adi-2 affords, like user selectable filters, crossfeed, and PEQ. Game changingly powerful stuff. People mess around with interconnect, power cable, tubes and all manner of nonsense to find “their sound” which is highly subjective and personal, device like adi allows this freedom and should not be dismissed. Yeah I’m a fanboy


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

MikeW said:


> The best idea is to not put 8000$ rims on 1993 civic. Just buy a Lamborghini from start.


The Lamborghini version of the THX 789 being the Benchmark HPA 4


----------



## BrotherKathos (Mar 1, 2019)

MikeW said:


> He needs xmos interface specifically so anything other then that is a non-starter. You should not compare 100$ DS to end game DS in this way
> Either, it’s a bit disengenous. Like saying a Yggy will sounds like a 250$ modi multibit.
> 
> DO not underestimate the extreme flexibility and customization an option like adi-2 affords, like user selectable filters, crossfeed, and PEQ. Game changingly powerful stuff. People mess around with interconnect, power cable, tubes and all manner of nonsense to find “their sound” which is highly subjective and personal, device like adi allows this freedom and should not be dismissed. Yeah I’m a fanboy


Its not clear whether the xmos is needed, or just desired since its the latest tech of the week. There are instances of people getting rid of their yggys for the modi multibit and eitr combo, so they must be pretty close for people to choose that path. The adi 2 has nice customization and is an all in one unit, but the dac tech is certainly not 'end game' as far as d/s goes. It could only retail for $600 in the dac section if RME is making a good profit on it, which makes it mid-fi at best.


----------



## MikeW

Or perhaps Nerochrome HPA1 if your into the that kind of thing. I like a bit more soul, though that can be infused with a good tube-pre or EQ.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> Its not clear whether the xmos is needed, or just desired since its the latest tech of the week. There are instances of people getting rid of their yggys for the modi multibit and eitr combo, so they must be pretty close for people to choose that path. The adi 2 has nice customization and is an all in one unit, but the dac tech is certainly not 'end game' as far as d/s goes. Its only got about $600 in the dac section if RME is making a good profit on it.



RME's got a custom DSP, alot of R&D go's into a product like this. You think a DAVE has 6000$ in parts? hah hell no, your paying for decade of R&D. DS is complicated because implementation matters very much. Same DAC chip in 50$ or 1500$ dac, implementation varies wildly. ADI-2 has an exceptional power circuit and usb input as well, far above average. That stuff's not free man, they arnt using bog standard off the shelf XMOS parts, custom solution. The OP is looking for XMOS because he has a device that requires that chip to interface properly, probably a DAP or some other specific piece of gear.

With regards to the ADI being an "all in one unit".. uhh almost all 1000$+ DS designs are by that definition. Comes with the territory of high end DS. There are far more 1k+ DS dac's that have a headphone amp thrown in then not. So if you somehow believe that because it's got a great headphone amp thrown in that it's somehow lacking as a dac, you are mistaken. Most high end DS products are often times used in studio and the headphone amp is an expectation.

"Sharp zing of DS"... your confusing what a terrible input circuit does to DS.. your also assuming that all DS dac's sound like Sabre.. 

Edit: and before you say "ADi2 just has a walwart switcher, there's nothing special about it" dig a bit deeper. It's excellent measured performance, and the fact that it gains nothing by hooking a 1000$ LPS to it says otherwise. Same go's for it's USB input.. world class. Performance is outstanding, measured and subjective. No difference in feeding it with a end game transport via optical/coax or hooking it up to a noisy laptop usb. All three perform exceptional. Compare this to pedestrian crap like Schiit GEN2 or xmos gen1... no freaking comparison, those devices can't reach this level of performance with ridiculously expensive USB decrapifier's and a 15 foot rope of every ifi purifier made.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> RME's got a custom DSP, alot of R&D go's into a product like this. You think a DAVE has 6000$ in parts? hah hell no, your paying for decade of R&D. DS is complicated because implementation matters very much. Same DAC chip in 50$ or 1500$ dac, implementation varies wildly. ADI-2 has an exceptional power circuit and usb input as well, far above average. That stuff's not free man, they arnt using bog standard off the shelf XMOS parts, custom solution. The OP is looking for XMOS because he has a device that requires that chip to interface properly, probably a DAP or some other specific piece of gear.
> 
> With regards to the ADI being an "all in one unit".. uhh almost all 1000$+ DS designs are by that definition. Comes with the territory of high end DS.
> 
> Edit: and before you say "ADi2 just has a walwart switcher, there's nothing special about it" dig a bit deeper. It's excellent measured performance, and the fact that it gains nothing by hooking a 1000$ LPS to it says otherwise. Same go's for it's USB input.. world class. Performance is outstanding, measured and subjective. No difference in feeding it with a end game transport via optical/coax or hooking it up to a noisy laptop usb. All three perform exceptional. Compare this to pedestrian crap like Schiit GEN2 or xmos gen1... no freaking comparison, those devices can't reach this level of performance with ridiculously expensive USB decrapifier's and a 15 foot rope of every ifi purifier made.



A $99 modi 3 has the same chip as the Adi 2 and nips at its heels in measurements. Other than bragging rights, and the added customization what does the rme actually have different? Each designer has their own level of expertise they decide to charge for. If you want years of R&D into a product you might as well save some money and get a $400 Metrum  flint. R2R tech has been here over a century now and has had way more time to be refined that the new cheapo D/S dacs.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Im not going to continue going round and round with you. I've owned various products over the years, been doing this a long time. NOS, Multi-Bit, and DS. The differences between the ADI-2 and Modi 3 are too numerous to even cite, i'd have to write a book on it. An excellent dac's an excellent DAC, i've enjoyed all three of the above DAC's. However, the flexibility and customization of a product like ADI-2  has been game changing for me. The power circuit and input implementation have a great impact on DS designs, and the modi 3 is simply not even remote comparable in this regard. The input section of the RME is world class. The input on most schiit products is less then desirable. GEN2 is particularly aweful. Say this as an owner of multiple Schiit dac's and products over the years. You speak as someone who has read alot and is parroting. Not someone who has actually tried the products.

Also, you got to go pretty far up the Schiit Amp tree to even match the head-amp in the ADI-2. I prefered it over my Joutunheim. Assuming it meets your power needs. (Jot's alot more powerful) As an all in one, there's no contest for me. The ADI-2 is dramatically better then Jotunheim in any configuration. I also wouldent bother to pair it with the THX789, as if it meets your power requirements the two are very similar in performance and sound signature. Slight edge to the ADI2.


----------



## Kamurah (Mar 1, 2019)

BrotherKathos said:


> A $99 modi 3 has the same chip as the Adi 2 and nips at its heels in measurements. Other than bragging rights, and the added customization what does the rme actually have different?......



I don't know how many Head-Fi-ers are actually musicians or recording engineers....   But RME is a well-respected company within the professional recording industry.  Their ASIO implementation is bespoke, and they have custom designed drivers that give their interfaces the lowest latency and greatest stability over USB and PCIe in the field.  EVERYTHING they do is hyper-engineered, and in my experience, their products are very well built.

Now....a 1ms round trip ASIO latency number is certainly not needed when just listening to audio at home with headphones....but as I said, RME equipment (like Benchmark) has a reputation in the recording industry.   I have not heard the RME ADI DAC...but I would trust it to sound better than a Schiit Modi....regardless if the two use the same chipset.

Until you have actually worked with RME equipment, it is hard to explain in a way that conveys the whole picture.  In a professional environment I have owned and used Apogee, Universal Audio, Focusrite, Avid (Digidesign), and RME equipment....and the RME stuff is some of the best out there....bar none.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> Im not going to continue going round and round with you. I've owned various products over the years, been doing this a long time. NOS, Multi-Bit, and DS. The differences between the ADI-2 and Modi 3 are too numerous to even cite, i'd have to write a book on it. An excellent dac's an excellent DAC, i've enjoyed all three of the above DAC's. However, the flexibility and customization of a product like ADI-2  has been game changing for me. The power circuit and input implementation have a great impact on DS designs, and the modi 3 is simply not even remote comparable in this regard. The input section of the RME is world class. The input on most schiit products is less then desirable. GEN2 is particularly aweful. Say this as an owner of multiple Schiit dac's and products over the years. You speak as someone who has read alot and is parroting. Not someone who has actually tried the products.
> 
> Also, you got to go pretty far up the Schiit Amp tree to even match the head-amp in the ADI-2. I prefered it over my Joutunheim. Assuming it meets your power needs. (Jot's alot more powerful) As an all in one, there's no contest for me. The ADI-2 is dramatically better then Jotunheim in any configuration. I also wouldent bother to pair it with the THX789, as if it meets your power requirements the two are very similar in performance and sound signature. Slight edge to the ADI2.


I’ve spent enough money on ‘end game’ products to understand the difference in sound you get from source components is rife with severe diminishing returns, followed by amp, then finally speakers or headphones. This hobby can easily make people spend way more than necessary to get the same performance as someone else spending less. I’ve got no doubt the rme is an awsome dac, but its still going to sound like a delta sigma dac at the end of the day and be very similar in sounfpd to even a modi 3, whether people want to admit it or not. I’d bet money if you had someone in a blind room, and had 5 dacs in there switching to the same headphones with the rme in the mix, it would be extremely difficult to pick the rme out consistently.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

It would be quite easy to pick out my rme, with it's custom EQ curve tailored to my taste, that "just works" on all input signals, rather they come from Tidal, Spotify, Qubuz, Chrome, Battlefield 5, or foobar.. that said, I do agree with most of what you posted. Also understand value is subjective. Very subjective, as much or more than sound itself. A 1k device is a big f'kin deal to the family of 4 who makes 25k a year. Not much a thought for a 80-100k household. That said... I see alot of people on wellfare walking around with Iphone 10's but don't get me started.

It would also be stupidly easy to pick out my RME when hooked up to my LSR305's, performing room correction and removing a huge 12DB bass spike at 60 hz, across all input methods, without any additional software or tinkering. 

You might also be able to pick me out of the crowd when im holding the remote for the ADI-2, controlling it from 20 foot away, on my couch across the room.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> It would be quite easy to pick out my rme, with it's custom EQ curve tailored to my taste, that "just works" on all input signals, rather they come from Tidal, Spotify, Qubuz, Chrome, Battlefield 5, or foobar.. that said, I do agree with most of what you posted. Also understand value is subjective. Very subjective, as much or more than sound itself. A 1k device is a big f'kin deal to the family of 4 who makes 25k a year. Not much a thought for a 80-100k household. That said... I see alot of people on wellfare walking around with Iphone 10's but don't get me started.
> 
> It would also be stupidly easy to pick out my RME when hooked up to my LSR305's, performing room correction and removing a huge 12DB bass spike at 60 hz, across all input methods, without any additional software or tinkering.



I’ve thought about getting the rme for the eq and other features. Even with the amp section I don’t need its still decent value on a balanced dac from the Germans. I’ve held off though because I tend to like the soumd from r2r dacs much more and even have much less desire to eq when listening to them. I’ve got a balanced akm 4490 dac like the rme, but much cheaper. Its my least favorite I have paired with my 789, but finally got into my strike zone when I added a tube buffer between it and the thx. Took of the d/s razor edge. Now all i eq is bass up a bit.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

That's a very fair statement, and totally cool. However, understand that much of "DS glare/edge" is the result of poor input method. Jitter/noise and other crap on sub-standard/cheap/no R&D/off the shelf input circuits, particularly USB. Also, ADI-2 has a "slow filter" that takes the edge off, and obviously excellent highly configurable 5 band PEQ for the hail mary.

789 is not the most forgiving amp on the high end either. It's a tad bright. Combine this with headphones that might be a tad bright, with a flat DS chip, vs a rolled off R2R.. I can see why  you prefer R2R. One must consider source, amp and phones, im treble sensitive too, but Im using HD650 and Liquid Platinum with the ADi2.. a very not treble situation. EQ is the path, tubes too, but I like them for other reasons, pleasing distortion patterns, full body, and 3D, things that can't be replicated with EQ. Though one could argue the DSP filters in adi are basically distortion filters. It's better to call tubes by what they are, they dirty things up a bit, add distortion, in pleasing ways. As they can't be measured and found superior. Im ok with all this though, people just have to accept that the best measuring is not always the best sounding. 

But I 'get" that you like R2R, I do too, and I respect that. I'll tell you one thing, I'll never be without hardware tone control again, I've got an also excellent, but far less flexible Loki Mini in my stash for the day I move on to something else, without EQ. (possibly yggy)

My previous dac was a Gen5 Bifrost that I enjoyed quite abit. GEN5 made a bigger difference then the dac itself. Im also a bit of a Schiithead, and can't wait to see what they do with Gen6... competitive with RME's input? hmmm tough one, we'll see what they can cook up. They are doing now, what RME did years ago.. custom solution. No more reliance on cmedia's mediocrity.

Edit: We've thoroughly derailed this thread, my apologies. - Gives the room to THX crowd.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> That's a very fair statement, and totally cool. However, understand that much of "DS glare/edge" is the result of poor input method. Jitter/noise and other crap on sub-standard/cheap/no R&D/off the shelf input circuits, particularly USB. Also, ADI-2 has a "slow filter" that takes the edge off, and obviously excellent highly configurable 5 band PEQ for the hail mary.
> 
> 789 is not the most forgiving amp on the high end either. It's a tad bright. Combine this with headphones that might be a tad bright, with a flat DS chip, vs a rolled off R2R.. I can see why  you prefer R2R. One must consider source, amp and phones, im treble sensitive too, but Im using HD650 and Liquid Platinum with the ADi2.. a very not treble situation.
> 
> ...



My setup right now is smsl M9 dac with dual akm4490s using slow linear filter and ifi ipower as psu, schit eitr and loki and fx audio tube buffer going into thx with sennheiser hd6xx. only the tube buffer took the glare off the hd6xx enough to keep me from bumping the treble down. i’ve also got another thx that’s got a modi multibit and eitr hoocked to it and its aswome. By far my fav rig of all the one I own.


----------



## MikeW

Sounds like a really good setup. Eitr is excellent, and I'd say required when pairing with most mid-fi DAC's. It's not perfect but damn good and an excellent value. I can't speak to your particular treble issues. I don't have this problem at all with the ADI-2 and HD650. Either though the Liquid Plat, Jotunheim, or built in Head-amp. You may be particularly sensitive, or that SMSL dac is doing something bad to treble energy. The 4490 is far more relaxed with less treble energy then say, most sabre dac's. The HD6xx does have a fairly significant spike at 8K that you may find irritating, and some have EQ'ed this out in a very narrow band, it's part of my custom curve.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> Sounds like a really good setup. Eitr is excellent, and I'd say required when pairing with most mid-fi DAC's. It's not perfect but damn good and an excellent value. I can't speak to your particular treble issues. I don't have this problem at all with the ADI-2 and HD650. Either though the Liquid Plat, Jotunheim, or built in Head-amp. You may be particularly sensitive, or that SMSL dac is doing something bad to treble energy. The 4490 is far more relaxed with less treble energy then say, most sabre dac's. The HD6xx does have a fairly significant spike at 8K that you may find irritating, and some have EQ'ed this out in a very narrow band, it's part of my custom curve.


I think you are right about the treble spike. Its a good thing that the loki’s adjustment targets 8k so I only need to turn it very slightly when I get irritated. Plus I thin this dac is just a bad implementation. My Topping D50 with sabres is much tamer on the thx. I just got some Audioquest nighthawk carbons today, so will be listening to them on the thx ro see how they mix. Have them on my frankenstein’d portable setup atm and LOVE them instantly. I feel like they are headphones made specially for me. Can’t wait to try them on the thx 789


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Here's my EQ curve for HD650, I modified it slightly when I got the Liquid Platinum, as I feel the stock tubes needed a bit more midrange. Hard to imagine a sabre anything being more tame then AKM4490. Might be a clue to some funny business.  I hate to beat a dead horse, but the volume control on the RME is very well implemented and quite useful with the Liquid Platinum in particular, as it has very high gain and no gain switch. Lots of people in that thread trying to figure out the best way to attenuate signal for LP.. no such issues here.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> Here's my EQ curve for HD650, I modified it slightly when I got the Liquid Platinum, as I feel the stock tubes needed a bit more midrange. Hard to imagine a sabre anything being more tame then AKM4490. Might be a clue to some funny business.  I hate to beat a dead horse, but the volume control on the RME is very well implemented and quite useful with the Liquid Platinum in particular, as it has very high gain and no gain switch.


Now i might have to get the rme for this thx, and the Onyx for the other. Why are you doing this to me?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

Nah man, you like what you like. Im not trying to sell you anything. But I did notice you had particular complaint with treble in your setup and just trying to help. If you did own the Adi-2 you may find the thx 789 redundant, as hd650 is an easily driven load by it's excellent headamp.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> Nah man, you like what you like. Im not trying to sell you anything. But I did notice you had particular complaint with treble in your setup and just trying to help. If you did own the Adi-2 you may find the thx 789 redundant, as hd650 is an easily driven load by it's excellent headamp.


Hehe, its all good. Just playin


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

I suggest, if you have not already, perhaps play with a really good software EQ, it's been awhile since I did software EQ, but I know there is an excellent parametric plugin available for foobar. This may help you decide if a better hardware EQ is worth your time. Really, there's nothing wrong with software EQ, it's just a pain in the ass. Often times requiring workarounds and poor software, I've looked at all the options and im impressed with none, from a usability standpoint. (on windows) I tried APO, but it was buggy, clippy, and did not bypass the windows mixer, which i can ABX. Qubuz works exceptionally well with the ADI2. Tidal not so much, if your into non 44.1 content. Mostly because Quboz supports ASIO, which is required for ADI to auto-switch bitrate.


----------



## BrotherKathos

MikeW said:


> I suggest, if you have not already, perhaps play with a really good software EQ, it's been awhile since I did software EQ, but I know there is an excellent parametric plugin available for foobar. This may help you decide if a better hardware EQ is worth your time. Really, there's nothing wrong with software EQ, it's just a pain in the ass. Often times requiring workarounds and poor software, I've looked at all the options and im impressed with none, from a usability standpoint. (on windows) I tried APO, but it was buggy, clippy, and did not bypass the windows mixer, which i can ABX.


I don’t want to over complicate things. I’d prob get lost with too many options. Why i like the loki. Both my thxs have a loki hooked to them. Really helped out my hifiman he-400i. The thx is great for adding sub bass with that hp in balanced. Plenty of powa!!!


----------



## alpovs

MikeW said:


> It's also best when used single ended input and balanced output.


Has anyone compared the SE and balanced inputs from the same source? Any balanced DAC would have an SE output.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

The THX789 has budget price point, most people don't have a balanced dac to pair with it, as they are typically, with a few exceptions 1k+
There's not much to discuss though, it is what it is. It will work fine, but don't go out of your way to pair a balanced dac with it. Because of the design of 789 there is no possible benefit of balanced input, unless your doing a 50+ foot run of wire. Or your dac of choice has a significantly better balanced output section then it's single ended, which is possible. The difference would need to be fairly large though.


----------



## Fatdoi

MikeW said:


> The best idea is to not put 8000$ rims on 1993 civic. Just buy a Lamborghini from start.



I know someone who spent same money as the car modding the civic.... Same as audio, a hobby... People can spend as little or as huge to find the sound they like... It's just individual opinion and choices....

Still thanks for your comment..


----------



## ayang02

@MikeW you seem to imply the 789 is just okay for its tag price. Would you mind sharing what other amps compare well against the 789 at a similar price point? I seriously have trouble finding one under $500. I'm mostly interested in clean output power and very little distortion.

I have looked at SPL phonitor X and Benchmark HPA4 for potential 789 upgrades down the road but you know these two amps are way above the 789's price range.


----------



## alpovs

Despite MikeW's theoretical answer to a practical question I'd like to ask the public again. Has anyone compared the SE and balanced inputs on the THX 789 fed from the same source? Any balanced DAC would have an SE output. I read this whole thread and got an impression that many people have a balanced DAC or wanted to buy one.


----------



## BrotherKathos

alpovs said:


> Despite MikeW's theoretical answer to a practical question I'd like to ask the public again. Has anyone compared the SE and balanced inputs on the THX 789 fed from the same source? Any balanced DAC would have an SE output. I read this whole thread and got an impression that many people have a balanced DAC or wanted to buy one.



I have on my SMSL SU-8 balaced dac. Its been a while though so my impression is not very fresh. From what I can remember though there was little to no perceivable difference in sound output. Any I did perceive could easily be dismissed as placebo, but the balanced option did provide much better hum or static resistance and that is the best application for balanced as far as I know.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Ahh, the thx 789 and the Nighthawks, a match made in heaven for us. Ignore me, the nighthawks honeymoon has just begun.


----------



## omniweltall

BrotherKathos said:


> Ahh, the thx 789 and the Nighthawks, a match made in heaven for us. Ignore me, the nighthawks honeymoon has just begun.


enjoy mate haha. 

Never tried the NH. Any comparison with the 2C? The 789 is also a great match with the 2C.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 2, 2019)

ayang02 said:


> @MikeW you seem to imply the 789 is just okay for its tag price. Would you mind sharing what other amps compare well against the 789 at a similar price point? I seriously have trouble finding one under $500. I'm mostly interested in clean output power and very little distortion.
> 
> I have looked at SPL phonitor X and Benchmark HPA4 for potential 789 upgrades down the road but you know these two amps are way above the 789's price range.



To the contrary, I don't think you can do better for 350$. It's an excellent amp, and well worth 350. I think it's a bad idea to be impatient and pay a dumb amount for it. I don't think It's worth 500$ or more. Jotunheim's a clear value winner at less than 250$ used. My main concern is with people paying more than msrp for used gear. That's dumb. Especially a piece of gear like 789, which will be made by the boatload and value will plummet quickly. Just like HD6XX, AKG and Hifiman planar's. Massdrop made those products neigh worthless in short order. Same will happen to 789. Those that have been around for awhile are familiar with the Flavor of The Month cycle.. something gets popular and hyped, sells a boatload, and the people move on and start unloading them in the F/S forum. The more popular the item, the faster it's value sinks.

I want to be clear here, people are paying 600-800$ for this thing on ebay, and even over 400$ in the F/S forums here. I think it's a poor value at those prices. I do believe it's slightly better then a Jotunheim, if we are comparing a used 250$ jotunheim vs a new 350$ 789.. ok that's not a bad deal. If we are comparing a 250$ Jotunheim to a 500$ 789... that's a cause for concern, and raises an eyebrow.


----------



## BrotherKathos

omniweltall said:


> enjoy mate haha.
> 
> Never tried the NH. Any comparison with the 2C? The 789 is also a great match with the 2C.


Less peaky treble while still remaining very detailed. I was actually shocked by this as I was expecting a super dark soupy sound, but no, they sre very nice. They have a bit more mid bass bloom than the 2c and dont have quite as much energy on the super super low frequencies, but actually are very comparable.

 By far the closest to the 2C in bass response of any hp I own. Sound stage is where they really shine. As many have stated, earspeakers fit them better as a name than headphones. Very clean and clear, you can tell they achieve the claimed low thd. These are closest to my overall personal preference of any headphone so far st the initial stages of ownership. Better even than my first impressions of the 2C. The comfort is also just on another level as well. 

By far the most comfy headphones I’ve ever owned. They do sound quite a bit different in tomality than all my other heaphones. Its kinda hard to describe, bit I’d rate the hd6xx, airy and smooth. The lcd2c a mix of airy smooth with agreesive bass, and the nighthawks clean, harmonic, and expansive with very good mid and low frequency control.


----------



## ayang02

Thanks MikeW!

The Jotunheim looks like a great alternative to the 789. I do agree paying more than MSRP is dumb, but that's the demand for these things in the short-term future. Why do I get this feeling Massdrop is trying to align the Airist R2R DAC release with the next 789 batch, perhaps even combining the two into one form factor?


----------



## Zachik

BrotherKathos said:


> Now i might have to get the rme for this thx, and the Onyx for the other. Why are you doing this to me?





BrotherKathos said:


> I don’t want to over complicate things. I’d prob get lost with too many options. Why i like the loki. Both my thxs have a loki hooked to them. Really helped out my hifiman he-400i. The thx is great for adding sub bass with that hp in balanced. Plenty of powa!!!



I wish RME would sell a smaller box that does the DSP functionality alone. Just like the Loki (which I own) but with the added cool stuff (parametric EQ, cross-feed, etc.). 
Although, I suspect, analog-to-analog cannot do that. Need digital input for the DSP...


----------



## MikeW

I think Schiit's working on something like that... "gadget" who knows, that one's been coming for a long time. They are also working on a Schiit Pi


----------



## Zachik

MikeW said:


> I think Schiit's working on something like that... "gadget" who knows, that one's been coming for a long time. They are also working on a Schiit Pi


Schiit Gadget, from what I heard / read, is a device to change tone in a smart way, and basically intended / optimized for classical music. 
I have never heard if Schiit Pi.


----------



## MikeW

Schiit PI's supposed to be some kind of rasbery pi DSP module, but I think it's intended to be an internal component, not a separate box.


----------



## Snitte77

I could jump pn the last drop


----------



## franz12

Marlowe said:


> I'm sure that someone with more technical expertise than me can give a better answer, but as I understand it: the 789 has considerably more power; the 789 was completely designed by THX while the 788 is Monoprice designed with (I believe) some licensed tech from THX, which had some (it's vague) design input; the 789 did extremely well in objective tests on ASR, the 788 not so much (though my guess is that subjective listening would be far closer). The 788 also has a number of features (like EQ and DSP) that IMO is money wasting crap--YMMV of course. That said I guess (and it's only that--I've only heard the 789) that for most people and with most headphones, either would do a fine job. The 788 costs a third more for less power and a DAC you way not need or want while the 789's availability is likely to be very limited at least in the near term.



I received the thx 788, it sounds pretty good. I don't know whether that is because of the relatively new dac AK4493 or the amp section. But it sounds better than the fiio q5 which has ak4490.


----------



## Suppa92

Guys, this may not related to this thread. but could anyone tell me the HS code of THX AA 789? 
because i just want to figure out how much I would have to pay for the custom taxes.


----------



## stimuz

franz12 said:


> I received the thx 788, it sounds pretty good. I don't know whether that is because of the relatively new dac AK4493 or the amp section. But it sounds better than the fiio q5 which has ak4490.



Probably because ASR didn't actually review the 788, but rather reviewed the unboxing and "angrily" dodged the review.


----------



## MacMan31

So any idea when this amp is going to drop again?? There was that quick drop a few weeks back but  nothing since and there are over 13,500 requests.


----------



## ReAlien

MacMan31 said:


> So any idea when this amp is going to drop again?? There was that quick drop a few weeks back but  nothing since and there are over 13,500 requests.


Highly unlikely there will be any drop before May when February drop is set to deliver.


----------



## Fatdoi

MacMan31 said:


> So any idea when this amp is going to drop again?? There was that quick drop a few weeks back but  nothing since and there are over 13,500 requests.



i'm one of those lucky few hundreds from the last drop.... since MD took my money, haven't heard a word from them..... if there's no delay still 2 months to wait


----------



## diadack

Does anybody know how this compares to a Hugo 2? I’m thinking of selling mine for a balanced desktop set up.


----------



## jbarrentine

Have an atom now and wondering how this could possibly be better single ended. From what I'm led to believe measurements are outstanding on the atom. Why move up again? I'm signed up for the drop, just wondering if it's pissing money to the wind if I don't care about balanced output? Benchmark says balanced is a waste of time and I feel inclined to believe them, since they're experts.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better


----------



## Marlowe (Apr 10, 2019)

jbarrentine said:


> Have an atom now and wondering how this could possibly be better single ended. From what I'm led to believe measurements are outstanding on the atom. Why move up again? I'm signed up for the drop, just wondering if it's pissing money to the wind if I don't care about balanced output? Benchmark says balanced is a waste of time and I feel inclined to believe them, since they're experts.
> 
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better


Actually, you can't be "signed up" for the drop ATM since it is inactive. All you can do is request it, which, aside from alerting MD to the level of interest in a product, only gets you email notification when the drop becomes active again; you don't automatically join the drop by requesting it and would have to affirmatively take that action after the drop becomes active in order to spend any money.

BTW, I took a look at the post you linked to. Bearing in mind that I am almost as unqualified to judge its technical discussion as Herman Cain is to serve on the Federal Reserve board, I would nonetheless take it with a grain of salt since it was written by a manufacturer (albeit a very high end one) justifying its design decisions. Moreover, I find one of its claims to be somewhat off: it concedes that a balanced output can deliver significantly more power than a single ended output, but that this is relevant only for battery powered amps, not AC powered amps. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the assertion, but the THX 789 is an AC powered amp and it puts out a lot more power from its balanced output than its single ended outputs (which I confirmed by the much lower setting of the volume knob after I acquired a balanced cable for my HD700). 

In any case, I do agree that most people (including myself) without well trained ears are not going to hear a huge difference between well designed amps, assuming the amp has sufficient power to drive a particular headphone.


----------



## jbarrentine

Yeah I understand how drops work I didn't really need an explanation.


----------



## phthora

jbarrentine said:


> Have an atom now and wondering how this could possibly be better single ended. From what I'm led to believe measurements are outstanding on the atom. Why move up again? I'm signed up for the drop, just wondering if it's pissing money to the wind if I don't care about balanced output? Benchmark says balanced is a waste of time and I feel inclined to believe them, since they're experts.
> 
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better



As I understand it, and I'm certainly no expert, Benchmark prefers an XLR connection for decreased contact resistance, prefers balanced line inputs, grounds left and right separately, and uses a differential amplifier circuit to cancel out things like common mode noise by use of a signal and its inversion. I don't understand how that's _not _balanced. And, I'm not being snarky, I truly don't understand how this differs from balanced in anything but the most technical way.


----------



## MikeW

THX 789 is not balanced anyways. The xlr input is summed to single ended before being amplified and output via balanced. 

Great amp, don’t buy it though with the impression that it’s balanced
However.. and don’t go to any lengths to run it balanced either.


----------



## PopZeus

I thought it was the opposite, where the unbalanced RCA input is turned into a balanced before getting amped, and the balanced XLR input is just maintained throughout the signal path. Either way, I’m okay with it.


----------



## MikeW (Apr 10, 2019)

The 789 always outputs signal from its balanced headphone out regardless of input. But it converts balanced input to single ended before amplification stage.

So yes, that does mean balanced in > single ended conversion> amplification > balanced output.

As opposed to its single ended input which skips the conversion stage.

Single ended > amplification > balanced output.

The SE input avoids an entire unnecessary summing circuit.

This is why I caution people who are asking what balances Dac to pair with 789. Makes no since


----------



## Ken G

jbarrentine said:


> Have an atom now and wondering how this could possibly be better single ended. From what I'm led to believe measurements are outstanding on the atom. Why move up again? I'm signed up for the drop, just wondering if it's pissing money to the wind if I don't care about balanced output? Benchmark says balanced is a waste of time and I feel inclined to believe them, since they're experts.
> 
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better




Can't really go wrong with either one. They both measure incredibly well especially for their price. Below are links to reviews and measurements of the 789 and the Atom. Decision would likely come down to budget and power requirements of your Headphones.

THX 789
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

JDS Lab Atom
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/


----------



## alpovs

phthora said:


> grounds left and right separately


How is that? Ground is ground - it's Earth. Do they ground left and right to different planets?


----------



## phthora

alpovs said:


> How is that? Ground is ground - it's Earth. Do they ground left and right to different planets?



From their Application Notes: "We do offer a 4-pin XLR connection on the *HPA4* headphone amplifier, because this 4-pin connection offers lower contact resistance than a traditional 1/4" TRS connection. For performance reasons, this connector is not driven with a voltage-balanced signal. Instead, it provides isolated left and right ground returns that are individually connected to the ground reference points in the left and right amplifiers."

Maybe my wording wasn't entirely clear, but that's seems to qualify as "separately."


----------



## alpovs

Marlowe said:


> Moreover, I find one of its claims to be somewhat off: it concedes that a balanced output can deliver significantly more power than a single ended output, but that this is relevant only for battery powered amps, not AC powered amps.


This is totally wrong. It makes no sense whatsoever. I never heard this before. A properly designed balanced amp outputs 4 times the power out of balanced output compared to single ended.


----------



## alpovs

phthora said:


> From their Application Notes: "We do offer a 4-pin XLR connection on the *HPA4* headphone amplifier, because this 4-pin connection offers lower contact resistance than a traditional 1/4" TRS connection. For performance reasons, this connector is not driven with a voltage-balanced signal. Instead, it provides isolated left and right ground returns that are individually connected to the ground reference points in the left and right amplifiers."
> 
> Maybe my wording wasn't entirely clear, but that's seems to qualify as "separately."


Individual parts connected to ground individually, or separately. Of course. How else? It's just a matter of speech. There is no significance in it. It's like saying "my friend and I drank coffee" or "my friend and I individually drank coffee". We couldn't drink coffee from the same cup simultaneously. "Individually" is implied.


----------



## phthora

alpovs said:


> Individual parts connected to ground individually, or separately. Of course. How else? It's just a matter of speech. There is no significance in it. It's like saying "my friend and I drank coffee" or "my friend and I individually drank coffee". We couldn't drink coffee from the same cup simultaneously. "Individually" is implied.



Uh... what? I'm not following you.

Separate ground returns are different than a single ground return offered by a TRS. That's supposed to be one of the benefits of balanced headphone output. Which brings me back to the overarching question: What makes the Benchmark not unbalanced?


----------



## MikeW (Apr 10, 2019)

There is benefit in balanced headphone output stage. It is gear dependant. As many pieces of gear that offer balanced output, do so with lower noise, and distortion and higher levels of power on their balanced output sections. In these cases the advantage of "Balanced" is very very real. This is not to argue that an equally good single ended circuit could not be created, but only that for that particular piece of gear, the balanced section is superior. Like Schiit Jotunheim, Monoprice Liquid Platinum.. THX789, they all offer sinigifcantly more power on their balanced output, all three also offer single ended input with balanced output, but only two are properly "differential" balanced from end to end. (Jotunheim and Liquid Platinum). The 789 converts it's balanced input to single ended as a cost cutting measure. It's performance is excellent so it likely does not matter to the ear. However, as previously stated multiple times in this thread, certainly don't go out of your way to run balanced input into the 789, you gain nothing, and actually lose on technicals, likely not actual performance you can hear. As opposed to Jotunheim and Liquid platinum, which could potentially actually have something to gain from running proper balanced connections into them. The only thing running balanced into 789 accomplishes is pushing your signal though another set of op-amps, and a whole circuit that gets avoided when using single ended.


----------



## domho7

Hi all. Besides massdrop where can I purchase this amp. Tks.


----------



## AndrewM888 (Apr 11, 2019)

MikeW said:


> ...However, as previously stated multiple times in this thread, certainly don't go out of your way to run balanced input into the 789, you gain nothing, and actually lose on technicals, likely not actual performance you can hear. As opposed to Jotunheim and Liquid platinum, which could potentially actually have something to gain from running proper balanced connections into them. The only thing running balanced into 789 accomplishes is pushing your signal though another set of op-amps, and a whole circuit that gets avoided when using single ended.


Depending on the rest of your rig, 789 MAY benefit from supplying balanced signal to it, regardless of whether using its bal or unbal output stage.

On 789 there's no "another set of opamps" if using bal vs unbal. It's the same input stage opamps either way, reconfigured with relays.

The advantages of using bal input and XLR cabling for 789 input (or any amp) is really because of a possible deficiency in RCA unbal cabling.

Depending on how noisy your environment or connected gear is, RCA cabling can pickup noise currents from this that flow in RCA cable's unbal grounds. Since unbal ground wire is also used as signal-, and since the RCA ground wires have non-zero resistance, a noise voltage appears on this signal- that directly pollutes the audio signal (aka ground bounce). Depending on the noise source it can sound like hum (50/60 Hz harmonic), or machine noise, etc.

In contrast XLR-3 cabling eliminates this ground bounce by separating ground from the +/- audio signal wires. Noise currents flowing in the cable ground wire don't induce any voltage across the cable +/- wires.

The noisier your gear/environment, the more you benefit from XLR cabling.

Even if you only have unbal DAC with 789, we recommend using RCA-to-XLR cables to achieve most of the aforementioned benefit. Search for "Monoprice RCA to XLR" on amazon and you'll see a 1.5 ft option.

This entire topic highlights exactly why pro audio uses XLR-3 balanced cabling everywhere. If they didn't, the noise pickup induced ground bounce on 25ft runs of RCA cabling would be obscene.


----------



## stimuz

Ken G said:


> Can't really go wrong with either one. They both measure incredibly well especially for their price. Below are links to reviews and measurements of the 789 and the Atom. Decision would likely come down to budget and power requirements of your Headphones.
> 
> THX 789
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
> ...



Don't forget https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...monoprice-desktop-thx-headphone-amp-dac.5420/

even though its a fantastic dac/amp this non-review killed its traction lol.


----------



## domho7

stimuz said:


> Don't forget https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...monoprice-desktop-thx-headphone-amp-dac.5420/
> 
> even though its a fantastic dac/amp this non-review killed its traction lol.


I saw this at amazon usd499.
Its different from massdrop. Tks for the link..


----------



## stimuz

domho7 said:


> I saw this at amazon usd499.
> Its different from massdrop. Tks for the link..



Pretty sure its the same THX module x2. Monoprice just managed to rub the reviewer the wrong way to dodge the review completely. Either that or Massdrop rubbed them the right way.


----------



## Ken G

stimuz said:


> Pretty sure its the same THX module x2. Monoprice just managed to rub the reviewer the wrong way to dodge the review completely. Either that or Massdrop rubbed them the right way.



Others may disagree but I put a lot more faith in the build quality of Massdrop made products than those made by Monoprice.


----------



## stimuz

Ken G said:


> Others may disagree but I put a lot more faith in the build quality of Massdrop made products than those made by Monoprice.



except neither of them are made by massdrop or monoprice, they both outsource.


----------



## Roll

stimuz said:


> Pretty sure its the same THX module x2. Monoprice just managed to rub the reviewer the wrong way to dodge the review completely. Either that or Massdrop rubbed them the right way.



THX did design the 789

Monoprice:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...pressions-thread.860046/page-19#post-14623994

" I dont know about this. THX didn't design the two Monoprice products. We just supplied IP for some key analog stages."


----------



## maxxevv

stimuz said:


> Probably because ASR didn't actually review the 788, but rather reviewed the unboxing and "angrily" dodged the review.





stimuz said:


> Don't forget https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...monoprice-desktop-thx-headphone-amp-dac.5420/
> 
> even though its a fantastic dac/amp this non-review killed its traction lol.





stimuz said:


> Pretty sure its the same THX module x2. Monoprice just managed to rub the reviewer the wrong way to dodge the review completely. Either that or Massdrop rubbed them the right way.



If you have a problem with ASR regarding your disdain for their non-praise of something that seems to be highly prized by you, why don't you raise it up over there ? 
And have you actually read the complete proceedings of that particular thread for that matter ?  If you haven't then perhaps you should, it puts in proper perspective why the review was shelved. And what has transpired since your 'disappointment'  at a non-positive review there. s 

There is no need to repeat and lament about it over and over on this thread that has almost no direct correlation with the so said Monoprice product.


----------



## stimuz (Apr 11, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> If you have a problem with ASR regarding your disdain for their non-praise of something that seems to be highly prized by you, why don't you raise it up over there ?
> And have you actually read the complete proceedings of that particular thread for that matter ?  If you haven't then perhaps you should, it puts in proper perspective why the review was shelved. And what has transpired since your 'disappointment'  at a non-positive review there. s
> 
> There is no need to repeat and lament about it over and over on this thread that has almost no direct correlation with the so said Monoprice product.



No, I have a problem with them claiming a preview for a review of a unit sent to them by a member where they didn't even review it and instead crap on them for shipping woes. Btw, I bought my unit AFTER his review expecting to have to return it, so you could imagine my surprise.


----------



## flyte3333

AndrewM888 said:


> In contrast XLR-3 cabling eliminates this ground bounce by separating ground from the +/- audio signal wires. Noise currents flowing in the cable ground wire don't induce any voltage across the cable +/- wires.



Hi Andrew, do these noise currents only originate from AC mains connected power supplies?

So if using a battery powered source & DAC (not connected to mains power) then these CM noise currents through RCA to RCA interconnects are not an issue?

For example a Chord Hugo2 (which only has RCA outputs) running on battery power fed by a battery powered DAP.


----------



## AndrewM888

Em2016 said:


> Hi Andrew, do these noise currents only originate from AC mains connected power supplies?
> 
> So if using a battery powered source & DAC (not connected to mains power) then these CM noise currents through RCA to RCA interconnects are not an issue?
> 
> For example a Chord Hugo2 (which only has RCA outputs) running on battery power fed by a battery powered DAP.



Hi. 
- Yes AC mains-connection transformers, whether 50/60 Hz linear toroid or SMPS, are often the source of this common mode noise injection. Battery-powering everything upstream (e.g. source + DAC) is a great way to prevent that CM injection. 
- Keep Source-DAC and DAC-amp cabling short to prevent CM pickup from RF fields nearby. <1ft if possible.


----------



## flyte3333

AndrewM888 said:


> - Keep Source-DAC and DAC-amp cabling short to prevent CM pickup from RF fields nearby. <1ft if possible.



Thanks Andrew.

So if source + DAC are both battery powered (disconnected from mains) then RCA interconnects can be 3 meter in length with no RF pickup issues to worry about?


----------



## AndrewM888

Em2016 said:


> Thanks Andrew.
> 
> So if source + DAC are both battery powered (disconnected from mains) then RCA interconnects can be 3 meter in length with no RF pickup issues to worry about?


I'd be concerned. 3m RCA is pretty long and can pickup RF fields.  Instead consider two of these from amazon.com. Any CM current from RF pick up will be restricted to the shield, and the inner signal pair will remain clean: 
*Monoprice 10ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated)*


----------



## alpovs

AndrewM888 said:


> I'd be concerned. 3m RCA is pretty long and can pickup RF fields.  Instead consider two of these from amazon.com. Any CM current from RF pick up will be restricted to the shield, and the inner signal pair will remain clean:
> *Monoprice 10ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated)*


Are these cables properly wired? I think it would be better not to connect XLR pin 1 to the shield and leave the shield floating connected only to the RCA shield. The schematic from monoprice.com:


----------



## AndrewM888

alpovs said:


> Are these cables properly wired? I think it would be better not to connect XLR pin 1 to the shield and leave the shield floating connected only to the RCA shield. The schematic from monoprice.com:


Yes this is proper wiring.
CM currents are often current sources and will flow on the lowest impedance path. In this case we want them to flow from RCA sleeve to pin 1, leaving wires 2,3 unadulterated.
If you float wire 1, then the CM currents will try to push through wire 2/3 in parallel and cause massive common mode noise voltage on wire 2/3, which the 789 will have to reject.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I finally found my perfect sound. Thx 789, mimby, and some nighthawks. Unbeatable for the price!


----------



## BananaOoyoo

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/80382/talk/2404753

THX 789 will be available again today, at a new price of $400.


----------



## domho7

BananaOoyoo said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/80382/talk/2404753
> 
> THX 789 will be available again today, at a new price of $400.


That's good news. I went into massdrop just now but status still "sold out"


----------



## BananaOoyoo

domho7 said:


> That's good news. I went into massdrop just now but status still "sold out"



I’m guessing it’ll be up in 7-8 hours. I think that’s when it usually updates.


----------



## domho7

BananaOoyoo said:


> I’m guessing it’ll be up in 7-8 hours. I think that’s when it usually updates.


Ok tks I probably whack 1 to try out fully balance features.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

kind of a jerk move imo price jump of 51$. especially for the people who tried and tried and they sold out in seconds. i even know someone who literally took the day off of work to get one and he still couldnt and he was up and waiting to go. and now those people have to take the hit. imo they just know they will sell at a higher price and are going to take advantage of that fact.


----------



## BananaOoyoo

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> kind of a jerk move imo price jump of 51$. especially for the people who tried and tried and they sold out in seconds. i even know someone who literally took the day off of work to get one and he still couldnt and he was up and waiting to go. and now those people have to take the hit. imo they just know they will sell at a higher price and are going to take advantage of that fact.



Yeah it sucks that there was a sudden price hike. I know that for the 6XX, there was a significant backlash that got Massdrop to bring down the price again, but I don’t see it happening with the THX. (Not with 15000+ requests for it and likely limited availability)


----------



## Hifihedgehog

Good thing I subbed this thread. My plan is working. Now? Just to sell off a lightly used, two-week-old JDS Labs Atom.


----------



## jbarrentine

How could I miss this damn thing twice. Irritation. Glad the atom exists.


----------



## stimuz

jbarrentine said:


> How could I miss this damn thing twice. Irritation. Glad the atom exists.



Monoprice.


----------



## jbarrentine

stimuz said:


> Monoprice.



the interface of that amp reportedly sucks. I'll wait.


----------



## stimuz

jbarrentine said:


> the interface of that amp reportedly sucks. I'll wait.



A lot of hearsay about that amp. I wonder where you heard the negative stuff. Oh, ASR. Go look around for other complaints.


----------



## jbarrentine

stimuz said:


> A lot of hearsay about that amp. I wonder where you heard the negative stuff. Oh, ASR. Go look around for other complaints.



ASR describes the interface problems. Stupid design decisions. I can wait. I don't like the way the monoprice unit looks vs the massdrop unit anyway.


----------



## 510198

I just jumped on some stax, so I'm okay with missing out on this for a little while...


----------



## jbarrentine

*ESTIMATED SHIP DATE*
Aug 30, 2019 PT

It's UP!


----------



## whohasaquestion

Any mentioning of the # of units available?


----------



## headblid

Interesting times - got the notification email, happily clicked through to get in and was greeted with the 400$ price tag vs 350$. As much as I'd like to give Massdrop the benefit of the doubt, that's a 12.75% price hike.
Taking a quick look at the product description, I don't see any added functionality that justifies the hike. I may be missing something, thought I'd come check here - if not, it would seem that the excellent reviews and the used market pricing along with limited availability has pushed massdrop to raise the price by such a margin. 
This maybe too big of an increase - they should have at least repackaged the product to make it easier to swallow.

If it's really that they completely underpriced the 789 to get hype out, then I hope the 400$ price works for them in the long run. Guess I'll be sitting this one out.
Hope everyone willing to spend 400$ gets in, still a better price than the crazy prices on the used market .

Cheers,


----------



## alpovs

For $400 I'll go with the fully balanced Jotunheim with no opamps.


----------



## Voxata (Apr 18, 2019)

As someone who had both the Jotunheim and 789 I'd strongly recommend the 789. Measurements aside the soundstage was absolutely huge on 789 where Jotunheim was much closer with an upper mid forward presentation. YMMV, blah blah.


----------



## RestlessZombi

Feels like they must have had about 10 to sell.. it was up and it was over just as quick.


----------



## PopZeus

It always seems like an unspoken thing by companies who have strong ties to manufacturing in China, but I have to wonder if tariffs are impacting the pricing.


----------



## Focux

The heck, it was sold out in under an hour


----------



## Focux

alpovs said:


> For $400 I'll go with the fully balanced Jotunheim with no opamps.



How about the Liquid Carbon X?


----------



## Ken G

RestlessZombi said:


> Feels like they must have had about 10 to sell.. it was up and it was over just as quick.



I was lucky enough to snag one. The payment confirmation email said they sold 488 today.


----------



## RestlessZombi

Ken G said:


> I was lucky enough to snag one. The payment confirmation email said they sold 488 today.



I got one too, but had I not done it while I was on my phone as i travelled home I wouldn't of had one.


----------



## Ken G

RestlessZombi said:


> I got one too, but had I not done it while I was on my phone as i travelled home I wouldn't of had one.



I was out and about also and luckily checked my phone email and saw the Notification came out about 20 minutes early that it was available. Clicked through and got it. By the time I got home 10 minutes later I checked again and the drop was gonzo. 

Sounds like they will do more in the future though.


----------



## PopZeus

The emails get sent out after the drop goes live, so I'd imagine that many are already sold before most even realize it's available.


----------



## RestlessZombi

Ken G said:


> I was out and about also and luckily checked my phone email and saw the Notification came out about 20 minutes early that it was available. Clicked through and got it. By the time I got home 10 minutes later I checked again and the drop was gonzo.



I checked when I got off my train had it been late getting to the station, I probably would have missed it.. 488 is a small drop of the 15000+ that are interested..


----------



## Voxata

I snagged an order to pass onto someone who will want it. I've been asked enough for mine that I figure a friend will want to pick it up regardless.


----------



## trellus

Focux said:


> The heck, it was sold out in under an hour



Yeah, I was actually working today so I missed the email that was sent to me at 1:05 PM CDT until just now and it was def gone by then.  Ah well... saved me from myself!


----------



## jbarrentine

Feels like winning the lottery


----------



## stimuz (Apr 18, 2019)

jbarrentine said:


> ASR describes the interface problems. Stupid design decisions. I can wait. I don't like the way the monoprice unit looks vs the massdrop unit anyway.



And zero measurements, which I find very interesting in a direct competitor to the 789(which he gave a glowing review) that he trashed, that he wouldn't show measurements backing it up. Why is that do you think?


----------



## jbarrentine

stimuz said:


> And zero measurements, which I find very interesting in a direct competitor to the 789(which he gave a glowing review) that he trashed, that he wouldn't show measurements backing it up. Why is that do you think?



He says why. It pissed him off. I can fully understand.


----------



## tamleo

Voxata said:


> As someone who had both the Jotunheim and 789 I'd strongly recommend the 789. Measurements aside the soundstage was absolutely huge on 789 where Jotunheim was much closer with an upper mid forward presentation. YMMV, blah blah.


Hi,
Some said the 789 had the veil mids. The kind of mids that never pop out etc. What do you think about the mids on both amps? Tks


----------



## stimuz

jbarrentine said:


> He says why. It pissed him off. I can fully understand.



Science!


----------



## jbarrentine

stimuz said:


> Science!



Yeah, far easier to believe he's a secret agent with an agenda in a niche consumer audio market....


----------



## stimuz

jbarrentine said:


> Yeah, far easier to believe he's a secret agent with an agenda in a niche consumer audio market....



Far easier to believe than hes making money on ad revenue.


----------



## jbarrentine

stimuz said:


> Far easier to believe than hes making money on ad revenue.



I like "Russian agent" better. That plays great with the media. 

Seriously, some of you are so wacked out I dunno where to start.


----------



## stimuz

jbarrentine said:


> I like "Russian agent" better. That plays great with the media.
> 
> Seriously, some of you are so wacked out I dunno where to start.



Wait, how do you think most of these sites make money with the page views they get?


----------



## jbarrentine

stimuz said:


> Wait, how do you think most of these sites make money with the page views they get?



I know how ad revenue works. I also know screwed up little conspiracy theories about such things are insane. It surely doesn't account for the parade of products from multiple manufacturers rated across a spectrum of scores. The only evil plan is the one you're creating in your mind.

I'm going to ignore you. I honestly don't believe you're mentally well.


----------



## prymortal

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> Some said the 789 had the veil mids. The kind of mids that never pop out etc. What do you think about the mids on both amps? Tks


Are you sure it was the 789 & not the LCX that was lacking mids?


----------



## WHO23

Wow, it's already sold out.. even with the price hike to US$400


----------



## stimuz

jbarrentine said:


> I know how ad revenue works. I also know screwed up little conspiracy theories about such things are insane. It surely doesn't account for the parade of products from multiple manufacturers rated across a spectrum of scores. The only evil plan is the one you're creating in your mind.
> 
> I'm going to ignore you. I honestly don't believe you're mentally well.



be my guest.


----------



## tamleo (Apr 19, 2019)

prymortal said:


> Are you sure it was the 789 & not the LCX that was lacking mids?


I have the LCD2 rev2 not the X. More than once I read that the 789 had the veil mids. I have been torn between buying the Jotunheim and the 789. Though I don't like the weird upper mids and treble on the Jot, if the 789's mids is veil compared to the Jot I think I will get the Jot. Sorry for my English.


----------



## omniweltall

tamleo said:


> I have the LCD2 rev2 not the X. More than once I read that the 789 had the veil mids. I have been torn between buying the Jotunheim and the 789. Though I don't like the weird upper mids and treble on the Jot, if the 789's mids is veil compared to the Jot I think I will get the Jot. Sorry for my English.


It sounds transparent to me. Maybe they are just nitpicking. Some of those guys have really critical ears.


----------



## prymortal

tamleo said:


> I have the LCD2 rev2 not the X. More than once I read that the 789 had the veil mids. I have been torn between buying the Jotunheim and the 789. Though I don't like the weird upper mids and treble on the Jot, if the 789's mids is veil compared to the Jot I think I will get the Jot. Sorry for my English.


Its all good, I just wanted to check because some older posts on cetain forums people talk about both & its hard to follow which one the are refering to.
I hated the Jot+[balanced dac] i bought ages ago, but in its defense it was poorly made to the point you could concider it broken. Mainly solder issues around the LED,volume pot & SE output, i'm sure there was more because the dac sound was very off toned. On the bright side i'm going to blow it up when the NFB-1 arrives in a few weeks.


----------



## alpovs

jbarrentine said:


> I know how ad revenue works. I also know screwed up little conspiracy theories about such things are insane. It surely doesn't account for the parade of products from multiple manufacturers rated across a spectrum of scores. The only evil plan is the one you're creating in your mind.
> 
> I'm going to ignore you. I honestly don't believe you're mentally well.


I think it's naive.


----------



## alpovs

BananaOoyoo said:


> Yeah it sucks that there was a sudden price hike. I know that for the 6XX, there was a significant backlash that got Massdrop to bring down the price again, but I don’t see it happening with the THX. (Not with 15000+ requests for it and likely limited availability)


They didn't bring the HD6XX price down. It's $220 now. It used to be $200.


----------



## alpovs

Focux said:


> How about the Liquid Carbon X?


I don't know anything about it except it's seems to be slightly less powerful, cheaper and they hide some specs, which is not a good indication in my view.


----------



## alpovs

tamleo said:


> I have the LCD2 rev2 not the X. More than once I read that the 789 had the veil mids. I have been torn between buying the Jotunheim and the 789. Though I don't like the weird upper mids and treble on the Jot, if the 789's mids is veil compared to the Jot I think I will get the Jot. Sorry for my English.


If the 789 has veil mids and the Jot has exaggerated mids that means that either one of them is over-amplifying mids or the other is under-amplifying them. But which is more neutral/truthful? Are there measurements for both of them?


----------



## muckyfingers

alpovs said:


> They didn't bring the HD6XX price down. It's $220 now. It used to be $200.



They had it priced for $250 after an overwhelmingly successful launch of $199, tons of backlash later they brought the price down to $199. It was only recent that it climbed back up to $220.


----------



## AndrewM888

789 frequency response is completely neutral (transparent) and output impedance is extremely low. 
Attached are 789 freq response plots for 32 Ohms, single-ended output. 
Note how dead-flat the curves are across the entire audio band including the mids region. 
It's more likely that HP Freq Response, content, and non-realtime A/B comparisons are the source of what a user is perceiving as "veil".

*300 Ohm:



 

32 Ohm:


 

16 Ohm:


 


*


----------



## alpovs

Thanks, @AndrewM888 !
You are not the person to ask but could anyone else point me to similar measurements for the Jot?


----------



## alpovs

69mustang said:


> They had it priced for $250 after an overwhelmingly successful launch of $199, tons of backlash later they brought the price down to $199. It was only recent that it climbed back up to $220.


I see. I missed the $250 price. They were available for $199 for years, not only at launch. Looks like all those price increases are recent.


----------



## Zachik

alpovs said:


> I see. I missed the $250 price. They were available for $199 for years, not only at launch. Looks like all those price increases are recent.


Someone from MD has explained those price increases on the discussion section of the 789 page. Unfortunate for us (the customers) but makes perfect sense. 
Do not forget that MD is not in the business of losing money, so if their cost goes up - they have to increase the price just to maintain same profit levels...


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i personally doubt the cost went up anywhere near that much, imo they see it as an opportunity.... they cant keep them in stock and they sell out in seconds so why not raise the price.


----------



## BananaOoyoo

alpovs said:


> They didn't bring the HD6XX price down. It's $220 now. It used to be $200.



I meant their first price hike to $250.


----------



## jbarrentine

Hd800s don't cost $1500 either, but like everything else you either want it or not. You're willing to pay or not. This amp is no different. I don't see it as that much of a change honestly. 

Can someone who has one talk about it vs the jds atom? Thanks.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Apr 20, 2019)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i personally doubt the cost went up anywhere near that much, imo they see it as an opportunity.... they cant keep them in stock and they sell out in seconds so why not raise the price.


Could very well be.  In undergraduate economics classes they discuss this thing called the law of supply and demand - price should rise or fall to meet demand, as demand will rise or fall to meet price.  Even at $400 their stock sold out quickly.  By this measure, the 789 is still grossly under priced. 

But, I can understand MD also wanting to have a steady (or steadily increasing) price as not to create too much consternation in the customer base.  Their potential mistake was to initially price the 789 too low, and now over time they will get it to its natural price point.  Or this wasn’t a mistake, and early teaser pricing was the evil plan all along!

Bottom line is that MD is not in the business of losing money on their costs, nor should they leave profit on the table by selling for less than they can.  Yes, price increases will annoy some but as long as they can sell everything they can make, and it doesn’t affect the rest of their business, that should not be a material concern for them.  Nor really should we take it personally as consumers - we don’t have a right to an insanely under priced product, just a desire 

As cold and heartless as that might sound, you want MD incentivized to make products that are in great demand.


----------



## halcyon

AndrewM888 said:


> 789 frequency response is completely neutral (transparent) and output impedance is extremely low.
> Attached are 789 freq response plots for 32 Ohms, single-ended output.
> Note how dead-flat the curves are across the entire audio band including the mids region.
> It's more likely that HP Freq Response, content, and non-realtime A/B comparisons are the source of what a user is perceiving as "veil".



Are these measurements using standard linear resistor loads (say, a 32Oh resistor)?

Almost no headphone is linear in it's resistance across the frequency spectrum or at varying input voltages (i.e. volumes).


----------



## AndrewM888 (Apr 20, 2019)

halcyon said:


> Are these measurements using standard linear resistor loads (say, a 32Oh resistor)?



Yes these graphs were taken with 32 Ohm linear resistor.



halcyon said:


> Almost no headphone is linear in it's resistance across the frequency spectrum or at varying input voltages (i.e. volumes).



You're correct - headphone impedances often vary with frequency. This is why amp output impedance (Zout) matters. It's important to have low amplifier Zout < 0.1 Ohms like the 789. Other amplifiers with higher Zout will cause gain distortion vs frequency when loaded with such headphones, manifesting at least as non-flat frequency response and potentially as harmonic distortion (depending on the nature of the load non-linearities).

It would be convenient if an agreed-upon industry-standard practice existed for non-linear load testing of headphone amplifiers. Stereophile does have a non-linear R-L-C virtual loudspeaker load for their power amp testing, and as a reviewer they're in a good position to test all products with it. But being a technology and certification provider to only some products in the headphone space, THX may have an uphill battle convincing all manufacturers to get on-board - especially if it's not in their best interests to show how their products behave with a more realistic load.


----------



## Suopermanni

@AndrewM888 Out of curiousity and only if you know but has MassDrop managed to get a power brick for the THX 789 that complies with Australian electrical safety standards? I'm hoping they will manage to find one as it would be a shame if such a good product not be sold here.


----------



## alpovs (Apr 21, 2019)

Suopermanni said:


> @AndrewM888 Out of curiousity and only if you know but has MassDrop managed to get a power brick for the THX 789 that complies with Australian electrical safety standards? I'm hoping they will manage to find one as it would be a shame if such a good product not be sold here.


I am not responding for Andrew but the latest drop did not ship to Australia.

Out of curiosity, do you know what is special about Australian electrical standards compared to other countries?


----------



## PaganDL

alpovs said:


> I am not responding for Andrew but the latest drop did not ship to Australia.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you know what is special about Australian electrical standards compared to other countries?




@alpovs,

I missed the last drop too & the one prior facing the same issue as you.

Australian electrical standards as a general rule are quite convoluted & ridiculous in some areas of said standards & require extensive documentation & testing before a said product can be imported in.
In line with this, as an example, if said device for potential import in a category doesn't have a grounding plug or sufficent means for grounding in wiring, etc 
Another even perhaps more ridiculous example is using a different IR diode &/or transmitter/receiver then it doesn't pass local AU legistlation for electrical safety.
Honestly, there are countless reasons perhaps not related to electrical safety as well as current political issues probably don't help either.

Just my humble two cents.

Hope this all makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## prymortal

Hang on.... They sent the first or second drop to Australia didn't they? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk/2381998 & there was another post somewhere of a Australian that had one.


----------



## PaganDL

prymortal said:


> Hang on.... They sent the first or second drop to Australia didn't they? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk/2381998 & there was another post somewhere of a Australian that had one.




@prymortal,

The intial MD drops were definitely sent everywhere which quite a few outside the US also missed though as stated, the last few have not been everywhere for various reasons.

Hope this makes sense.


----------



## prymortal

PaganDL said:


> @prymortal,
> 
> The intial MD drops were definitely sent everywhere which quite a few outside the US also missed though as stated, the last few have not been everywhere for various reasons.
> 
> Hope this makes sense.


Yip clears that up, Thank You.


----------



## PaganDL

prymortal said:


> Yip clears that up, Thank You.




No problem, @prymortal


----------



## alpovs

PaganDL said:


> @prymortal,
> 
> The intial MD drops were definitely sent everywhere which quite a few outside the US also missed though as stated, the last few have not been everywhere for various reasons.
> 
> Hope this makes sense.


There were only 3 drops, I think.


----------



## Marlowe

alpovs said:


> There were only 3 drops, I think.


At least five I can recall, including the original with a shipping wait of six months or so. The second drop, which was open for two-three weeks IIRC, had it in stock for next day shipping. The next drop, also with next day shipping, was open for around a day just before Christmas (I got mine in this drop). There have been at least two drops since that were open only for hours or less.


----------



## Suopermanni

I think Marlowe is correct as I got mine around the Christmas drop last year and I think there are at least one drop before that one.


----------



## Deftone

Drop support told me that the last one ended on 18/4 so were looking at 2-3 months for the next, well my money is waiting anxiously for then because im not paying £700 for a used one on ebay right now.


----------



## jsmiller58

Sorry, a silly question (and one I could answer for myself with a 10 minute experiment)...  Can I connect a single ended DAC output via RCA cables to the 789, and still use the balanced output of the 789?  I do have a balanced DAC (DX7S), but would like to try a Schiit Loki in the chain while still driving out of the balanced headphone output on the 789...

Any significant downside of losing the balanced input to the 789?


----------



## ls13coco

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry, a silly question (and one I could answer for myself with a 10 minute experiment)...  Can I connect a single ended DAC output via RCA cables to the 789, and still use the balanced output of the 789?  I do have a balanced DAC (DX7S), but would like to try a Schiit Loki in the chain while still driving out of the balanced headphone output on the 789...
> 
> Any significant downside of losing the balanced input to the 789?




Yes, most people also suggest the best performance this way with the 789 specifically.


----------



## spicata

Seems that this delivery is delayed, to bad, I was expecting to get my unit now in May.




*Order status update*
Hi,

We have an update on your Massdrop x THX AAA 789 Linear Amplifier. The amps are nearing completion and we’re very happy with the final product (and hope you will be, too). Unfortunately, we’re tracking behind our original estimated ship date and now expect to begin shipping in late June.

We apologize for the delay. As a thank you for your patience, we’ve added a $10 credit to your account, which will be automatically applied to your next Drop purchase. If you prefer not to wait the additional time, you can cancel your order on your transactions page:

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. We look forward to you receiving and enjoying your amps soon.


----------



## Brainiac9000

Now available on drop.com.  Limited supply, get it now.  https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier


----------



## cageman

Brainiac9000 said:


> Now available on drop.com.  Limited supply, get it now.  https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier



Got one!  Thanks!


----------



## jbarrentine

You know if the Atom had a nice upgrade/metal option I never would have bought one of these.


----------



## stratas

Finally grabbed one!


----------



## alpovs

And... it's out of stock.


----------



## TJ Max (May 30, 2019)

Yep, At least we got 5 hours to grab it this time. Its was gone within an hour six weeks ago.


----------



## prymortal

alpovs said:


> And... it's out of stock.


Yeah i just ordered the last 300 for Ebay! Good times.


----------



## tamleo

jbarrentine said:


> You know if the Atom had a nice upgrade/metal option I never would have bought one of these.


The Atom lacks the error fix technology on the 789


----------



## Fatdoi

Still waiting for the Feb order...


----------



## omniweltall

Goodness. I really like my THX 789, but didnt think it would create this type of hype.


----------



## mixman

omniweltall said:


> Goodness. I really like my THX 789, but didnt think it would create this type of hype.



I like mine too, but damn. If "Drop" could get their act together on these they could make a mint.


----------



## bequietjk

I agree on "Drop"

I like Massdrop more <3


----------



## TJ Max

tamleo said:


> The Atom lacks the error fix technology on the 789



In reality, the majority are not experiencing errors. Otherwise The Atom wouldn't be praised as much and directly compare to the Thx 789.
You buy an Atom for the single ended output. It's one of the best in it class, maybe more powerful than the THX789. You buy the Thx 789 for the XLR out as it is one of the best of its kind. If you are a single ended user only, it isn't wrong to go with The Atom. You still are getting one of the best headphones available.


----------



## jwjking

Have anyone try to pair with Chord Qutest and beyer T1 2nd？Does it fit?


----------



## omniweltall

bequietjk said:


> I agree on "Drop"
> 
> I like Massdrop more <3


I cant imagine anyone liking "drop" more than "massdrop". It is idiotic to change the name. Unless they have a valid reason.


----------



## TJ Max (May 30, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> I cant imagine anyone liking "drop" more than "massdrop". It is idiotic to change the name. Unless they have a valid reason.



But it does make sense though. How can they call themselves Massdrop if it only drop a few Thx 789s at a time . Or perhaps they should call themselves Dewdrops.


----------



## omniweltall

TJ Max said:


> In reality, the majority are not experiencing errors. Otherwise The Atom wouldn't be praised as much and directly compare to the Thx 789.
> You buy an Atom for the single ended output. It's one of the best in it class, maybe more powerful than the THX789. You buy the Thx 789 for the XLR out as it is one of the best of its kind. If you are a single ended user only, it isn't wrong to go with The Atom. You still are getting one of the best headphones available.


It is not more powerful than the THX 789.


----------



## Fatdoi

The fact I'm getting 789 is because of it's XLR output... If I don't have my SE setup already, I'd get a Lyr3 for that..


----------



## mixman

bequietjk said:


> I agree on "Drop"
> 
> I like Massdrop more <3





omniweltall said:


> I cant imagine anyone liking "drop" more than "massdrop". It is idiotic to change the name. Unless they have a valid reason.



Who ever came up with that "catchy" name should be demoted, including the CEO. It's way too Damn generic!


----------



## phthora

Me every morning checking my email: "Dafuq is 'Drop'!?... Oh yeah, stupid Massdrop name change."

Seriously, the most forgettable name ever. Might as well go all the way in that direction and just call it 'Store.' So dumb even their own in-house products still say 'Massdrop' on them. lol


----------



## Old Dirty Puppy

Welp...
I've been thinking about get the Massdrop 789 for a while now but maybe I'll just wait for a different company to come out with a balanced headphone amp with THX AAA technology. Dealing with Massdrop is a huge pain in the ass. I have no idea how they can have a product with such high demand and they completely leave their customer base hanging for months. 
I do have one question though, does anyone have any opinions on how the 789 compares to an Audio GD NFB1 amp? I have an NFB1 amp that I am happy with but all the positive reviews about the 789 have me curious about it. I've only seen one review on YouTube comparing both briefly. Is it even worth getting a 789 when I already have good balanced amp?


----------



## elira

Old Dirty Puppy said:


> I do have one question though, does anyone have any opinions on how the 789 compares to an Audio GD NFB1 amp? I have an NFB1 amp that I am happy with but all the positive reviews about the 789 have me curious about it. I've only seen one review on YouTube comparing both briefly. Is it even worth getting a 789 when I already have good balanced amp?


I have both, they are very different amps, the 789 is cleaner and transparent. The NFB-1AMP has some coloration and is more visceral, also has better volume control. In objective terms I think the 789 is better, but with some headphones I prefer how the NFB-1AMP sounds.


----------



## James Shoegazer

just wondering if there’s any mention of the Bryston BHA-1 amp here. Super curious to know how it compares to the balanced output of the THX 789s


----------



## omniweltall (May 31, 2019)

James Shoegazer said:


> just wondering if there’s any mention of the Bryston BHA-1 amp here. Super curious to know how it compares to the balanced output of the THX 789s


I have both. The BHA-1 is in a different class. It is kinda like a super THX 789. Similar tonality, but more depth, more detailed yet smoother mids. Bass is more visceral and extended. BHA-1 is end-game material, better than all SS amps I tried/had so far.

But the THX eats less electricity and doesnt run hot. Just a lovely smaller solution with good power too. I love it. For non-technical cans, I just use the 789. But for Senns for example, the BHA-1 shows its true color.

One thing I dont get is that the BHA-1 shows a lower power rating. But in reality, it is the more powerful amp.


----------



## omniweltall (May 31, 2019)

elira said:


> I have both, they are very different amps, the 789 is cleaner and transparent. The NFB-1AMP has some coloration and is more visceral, also has better volume control. In objective terms I think the 789 is better, but with some headphones I prefer how the NFB-1AMP sounds.


I agree.

The NFB-1 smoothes things over, including the details. Reminds me of the Heron 5 and Bakoon. It is a colored amp. Staging is wide but flat (not that the THX is a staging king too). Though synergy comes to play, I would say the 789 is the overall better amp. Even compared to the larger audioGD that i tried.


----------



## James Shoegazer

omniweltall said:


> I have both. The BHA-1 is in a different class. It is kinda like a super THX 789. Similar tonality, but more depth, more detailed yet smoother mids. Bass is more visceral and extended. BHA-1 is end-game material, better than all SS amps I tried/had so far.
> 
> But the THX eats less electricity and doesnt run hot. Just a lovely smaller solution with good power too. I love it. For non-technical cans, I just use the 789. But for Senns for example, the BHA-1 shows its true color.
> 
> One thing I dont get is that the BHA-1 shows a lower power rating. But in reality, it is the more powerful amp.



K now I’ve moved them up to my grails esp. the Bryston haha, itching to get either one, but both uncommon finds now


----------



## mixman

I have a thread asking how far up do you have to go to truly get an upgrade to the THX?


----------



## omniweltall (May 31, 2019)

James Shoegazer said:


> K now I’ve moved them up to my grails esp. the Bryston haha, itching to get either one, but both uncommon finds now


Forgot to mention one thing about the BHA-1. It has very realistic sound, unlike many SS amps. It is not as romantic as good tube amps, but it is very realistic.

The THX 789 delivers sound in a clean way, but somehow it doesnt sound as convincing. I don't think it is the 789's fault. Most SS amps I tried are similar. That is why I always prefer tubes. The BHA-1 sounds very convincing but without the tube wetness, if that makes any sense. But the BHA-1 has that bass tautness that the best tube amps can only dream of. You can't win 'em all, I guess.


----------



## James Shoegazer

omniweltall said:


> Forgot to mention one thing about the BHA-1. It has very realistic sound, unlike many SS amps. It is not as romantic as good tube amps, but it is very realistic.
> 
> The THX 789 delivers sound in a clean way, but somehow it doesnt sound as convincing. I don't think it is the 789's fault. Most SS amps I tried are similar. That is why I always prefer tubes. The BHA-1 sounds very convincing but without the tube wetness, if that makes any sense. But the BHA-1 has that bass tautness that the best tube amps can only dream of. You can't win 'em all, I guess.



Sounds like the Bryston will be a nice contrast against the very powerful Apex Peak/Volcano tube amp I have. Well I could only dream of getting it. Missed a deal locally for about $730 used. Regretted not snagging it up


----------



## Currawong

mixman said:


> I have a thread asking how far up do you have to go to truly get an upgrade to the THX?



A couple of the $1400-1500 amps I have here are better, such as the Audio-gd Master 9 or Holo Audio Azure. I daisy-chained the THX AAA 789 to the other amps and compared them volume-matched and I feel that the more expensive amps have better dynamics. It's not a huge difference though, so I consider the THX amp to be a heck of a bargain.


----------



## mixman

Currawong said:


> A couple of the $1400-1500 amps I have here are better, such as the Audio-gd Master 9 or Holo Audio Azure. I daisy-chained the THX AAA 789 to the other amps and compared them volume-matched and I feel that the more expensive amps have better dynamics. It's not a huge difference though, so I consider the THX amp to be a heck of a bargain.


Thanks Amos. It was your review that got me into thinking about the Master 9. I looked at the Holo Audio also, but It doesn't seem to have enough output in case I get something like an LCD 4. Are you no longer recommending the ICan Pro?


----------



## robo24

omniweltall said:


> I cant imagine anyone liking "drop" more than "massdrop". It is idiotic to change the name. Unless they have a valid reason.


Just wait until all their headphones have "Drop" on them. Maybe they'll do a version of the HD 820 with "Drop" printed on the glass!


----------



## Currawong

mixman said:


> Thanks Amos. It was your review that got me into thinking about the Master 9. I looked at the Holo Audio also, but It doesn't seem to have enough output in case I get something like an LCD 4. Are you no longer recommending the ICan Pro?



The Pro iCan is great where you want power and listening enjoyment, and very low-level musical detail isn't a priority.


----------



## CoFire

TJ Max said:


> In reality, the majority are not experiencing errors. Otherwise The Atom wouldn't be praised as much and directly compare to the Thx 789.
> You buy an Atom for the single ended output. It's one of the best in it class, maybe more powerful than the THX789. You buy the Thx 789 for the XLR out as it is one of the best of its kind. If you are a single ended user only, it isn't wrong to go with The Atom. You still are getting one of the best headphones available.



I haven't compared stats but the THX 789 puts out impressive power SE. It's very clinical, definition of SS sound but though perhaps not totally convincing, more convincing than O2 and other more sterile SS. I've been comparing it to other amps and its clarity and detail is great. Soundstage is tough to compare but at this point for me, i think the headphone has more impact on soundstage.



omniweltall said:


> I cant imagine anyone liking "drop" more than "massdrop". It is idiotic to change the name. Unless they have a valid reason.



"dropinthebucket"?



TJ Max said:


> But it does make sense though. How can they call themselves Massdrop if it only drop a few Thx 789s at a time . Or perhaps they should call themselves Dewdrops.



Ring ring... "The Drop Marketing and Advertising Dept"... Caller.... "YOU'RE FIRED!". I guess stuff.com, buy.com, xxx.com were already taken? Yeah, Massdrop was catchy.

Now back to looking for that Sharpie to "Rebrand" all my Massdrop gear to "Drop". Just say it out loud, drop.com. I don't even want to mention this in public anymore. I felt "cooler" talking about and recommending Massdrop.


----------



## Caguioa

trying to find one...

but hows this alternative?

*Monolith THX AAA 788*


----------



## Davesrose (Jun 4, 2019)

Currawong said:


> The Pro iCan is great where you want power and listening enjoyment, and very low-level musical detail isn't a priority.



I saw your online review of the iCan before finally pulling the trigger on it.  I wanted a smaller form factor amp that could stack on my Benchmark DAC and media player.  Now that I've lived with it, I do like how powerful it is with a lot of options.  I'm wondering if you noticed a difference with balanced vs SE headphone output?  When it comes to micro-detail, I did notice that if I have everything off and it set to SS, and outputing SE, the amp then sounds the same as my Benchmark's headphone amp (which I find to be extremely flat).  I also read about some other NOS tubes for it.  I've gone ahead and put some Western Electrics in and it does add some more extension (wouldn't say detail the way I've found with tube rolling NOS tubes with my larger sized amp).  The main problem with the amp is there's too many options for an indecisive person like me   But I do find running my LCD-2fs in balanced, running tube mode, 10 X-Bass, and 0 3-D are my usual settings for most music.  Only a few times have I found 3-D actually adds some neat effects, and more times have found it cuts down some on impact  (wonder if it could also be more effective as a pre-amp).  I've also found that if I want detail-centric vocals or guitars, I've got a collection of headphones now (Mr Speakers being a good compliment to Audeze for some acoustic music, and Focals for some trance).

Keep your Youtube reviews going! I do find yours to be the best balance of length, overview, and fair opinions.


----------



## Davesrose

Caguioa said:


> trying to find one...
> 
> but hows this alternative?
> 
> *Monolith THX AAA 788*



At least it's not a major price point difference like the Benchmark HPA4 (with AAA 888) Though I did see threads that the Monolith isn't directly from THX (only direct comparison I've seen is Zeos, and he seemed to indicate it was pretty close sounding for all but the harder to drive headphones).  The Massdrop being 6W vs Monolith 3W.


----------



## jbarrentine

Davesrose said:


> Zeos



That guy is a ****ing clown. He can't even hear differences in dacs.


----------



## Davesrose (Jun 4, 2019)

jbarrentine said:


> That guy is a ****ing clown. He can't even hear differences in dacs.



My problem with his videos is that he rambles on a lot, and likes to subject the viewer to an unsteady headcam...but he gets a lot of headphones and amps, so sometimes I feel like trying to see if fast forwarding parts will get to any real analysis.  I was surprised with the video for Monolith, for example, was that he spent more of the video actually showing the interface :-O


----------



## Sonic Defender

jbarrentine said:


> That guy is a ****ing clown. He can't even hear differences in dacs.


To be fair, there are many people who admit the same thing. I haven't done enough testing myself, but I am not 100% sure that I can hear differences in properly implemented DACs and I hope that I'm not an idiot (although I could be).


----------



## Fatdoi

jbarrentine said:


> That guy is a ****ing clown. He can't even hear differences in dacs.



You must forgive him for that when he daisy chains his equipment and says cables don't make no difference only for looks....


----------



## Marlowe

Sonic Defender said:


> To be fair, there are many people who admit the same thing. I haven't done enough testing myself, but I am not 100% sure that I can hear differences in properly implemented DACs and I hope that I'm not an idiot (although I could be).


I'm not sure  I can either--but I don't post rambling 30-minute reviews on YouTube in which I prove that ignorant, narcissistic buffoons make just as good audio reviewers as they do presidents. And if I did, I wouldn't prominently feature monitors with oddball (and less than useful) aspect ratios with wallpapers that I might have found titillating. When I was eleven.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Marlowe said:


> I'm not sure  I can either--but I don't post rambling 30-minute reviews on YouTube in which I prove that ignorant, narcissistic buffoons make just as good audio reviewers as they do presidents. And if I did, I wouldn't prominently feature monitors with oddball (and less than useful) aspect ratios with wallpapers that I might have found titillating. When I was eleven.


The democracy of You Tube, anyone gets there moment in the sun!


----------



## CoFire

Can somebody verify the SMPS Output on their power supply brick? Looking for voltage and amperage. I want to be sure I didn't swap bricks. Most of mine are labeled but I didn't get around to labeling this one.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## elira

CoFire said:


> Can somebody verify the SMPS Output on their power supply brick? Looking for voltage and amperage. I want to be sure I didn't swap bricks. Most of mine are labeled but I didn't get around to labeling this one.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


24V 1.8A


----------



## wazzupi

Marlowe said:


> I'm not sure  I can either--but I don't post rambling 30-minute reviews on YouTube in which I prove that ignorant, narcissistic buffoons make just as good audio reviewers as they do presidents. And if I did, I wouldn't prominently feature monitors with oddball (and less than useful) aspect ratios with wallpapers that I might have found titillating. When I was eleven.


What's your problem ?


----------



## kumar402 (Jun 19, 2019)

I got the amp last week. However due to busy scheduled haven’t been able to spend a lot of time with it. Yesterday I connected it with Gumby and was pleasantly surprised by the smooth top end. I thought it would be brighter sounding but the smoothness surprised me. As an initial impression I do feel midrange is slightly veiled but only if I do A-Bing with Liquid Platinum which is known for forward midrange. All in all favorable impression. Will post my impression in a week or so once I spend some time with it.

Have also got massdrop R2R DAC so will check out the pairing. I wish R2R DAC had balanced out.


----------



## TubeTone

kumar402 said:


> I got the amp last week. However due to busy scheduled haven’t been able to spend a lot of time with it. Yesterday I connected it with Gumby and was pleasantly surprised by the smooth top end. I thought it would be brighter sounding but the smoothness surprised me. As an initial impression I do feel midrange is slightly veiled but only if I do A-Bing with Liquid Platinum which is known for forward midrange. All in all favorable impression. Will post my impression in a week or so once I spend some time with it.


Thank you for the brief comparison. 

This amp is on my short list some day for sure.


----------



## kumar402

TubeTone said:


> Thank you for the brief comparison.
> 
> This amp is on my short list some day for sure.


Ya, jump on it if you get a chance. With good source like Gumby or Maasdrops own R2R DAC it makes a nice relaxed sounding Amp. No brightness at top end. Very smooth. However both the DAC I have are smooth so the good news is Amp is not adding anything to it.


----------



## SammYyYyY

Anybody know how this pairs with the Empyreans? I'm planning on picking up the Empyreans soon and I'm not looking to spend too much on the source initially (new poster btw, I usually just read threads ).


----------



## Sonic Defender

SammYyYyY said:


> Anybody know how this pairs with the Empyreans? I'm planning on picking up the Empyreans soon and I'm not looking to spend too much on the source initially (new poster btw, I usually just read threads ).


No direct experience, although I do have a FiiO THX AAA amp module that I use daily. Take this with a grain of salt, but I think over the years (well beyond even my time here) I have learned how to read impressions and reviews well, and I have a fair amount of experience. All of that suggests to me that the Empyreans and this amp would probably be a really good combination. But that is just an educated guess, be curious to hear from somebody who has tried the combination. I would really love to try the Empyreans and perhaps when I complete this degree I will treat myself.


----------



## Fatdoi

SammYyYyY said:


> Anybody know how this pairs with the Empyreans? I'm planning on picking up the Empyreans soon and I'm not looking to spend too much on the source initially (new poster btw, I usually just read threads ).



I think it will be a good amp... Same as my speculation of it driving my Utopia and Auteur... But I think it won't drive those totl cans to their full potential... For that may need top OTL or GSX mini, P750u etc...


----------



## Ken G

The THX 789 should drive it fine. The Empyrean is 32 ohms and with a sensitivity of 100 db (1mw/1kh). 
The THX in balanced mode puts out 6 full watts into 32 ohms. It should drive it fine and to it's full potential based on the 789's measurements.


----------



## bryceu (Jun 20, 2019)

Received my THX 789 yesterday from the second-wave Drop. Four months of waiting had me extremely hyped up.
First impressions: The unit is quite a bit larger than my Aune x7s. It also doesn't feel as solidly built as I was expecting, but it's not cheap feeling either. I'm not a fan of the power and input buttons, they feel cheap and unsatisfying. The gain switch and volume knob however are pleasant. Listening primarily with my Auteurs for impressions, I have the volume knob between 10-2 on II Gain to achieve optimal listening levels. I was not immediately blown away by the sound of the 789. Only on two songs so far have I felt like it was very impressive, otherwise it is comparable to the x7s. The most noticeable difference is the increased dynamics of the 789 over the x7s. It is also more precise and has less distortion. The 789 is definitely faster and more exact, delivering more slam as well. The background is pleasantly black, and you can hear (or not hear) the space between each sound or instrument. The 789 delivers you the music smoothly and easily, without adding any unwanted nuances. In electronic music some of the higher frequency sounds come through very sharp, piercingly clear. There is definitely treble sparkle on this thing.   Some electronic music/sounds can be less enjoyable because it is so revealing and the decay is so fast. This could also just be the Mimby. Natural instruments sound incredibly real on the other hand.
Recommendations:
RY X - Haste
deadmau5 - Stay (drop the poptart edit)
Nathan Reich - Perfect Teeth


----------



## wazzupi

bryceu said:


> Received my THX 789 yesterday from the second-wave Drop. Four months of waiting had me extremely hyped up.
> First impressions: The unit is quite a bit larger than my Aune x7s. It also doesn't feel as solidly built as I was expecting, but it's not cheap feeling either. I'm not a fan of the power and input buttons, they feel cheap and unsatisfying. The gain switch and volume knob however are pleasant. Listening primarily with my Auteurs for impressions, I have the volume knob between 10-2 on II Gain to achieve optimal listening levels. I was not immediately blown away by the sound of the 789. Only on two songs so far have I felt like it was very impressive, otherwise it is comparable to the x7s. The most noticeable difference is the increased dynamics of the 789 over the x7s. It is also more precise and has less distortion. The 789 is definitely faster and more exact, delivering more slam as well. The background is pleasantly black, and you can hear (or not hear) the space between each sound or instrument. The 789 delivers you the music smoothly and easily, without adding any unwanted nuances. In electronic music some of the higher frequency sounds come through very sharp, piercingly clear. There is definitely treble sparkle on this thing.   Some electronic music/sounds can be less enjoyable because it is so revealing and the decay is so fast. This could also just be the Mimby. Natural instruments sound incredibly real on the other hand.
> Recommendations:
> RY X - Haste
> ...


Now to upgrade that dac


----------



## SammYyYyY

Sonic Defender said:


> No direct experience, although I do have a FiiO THX AAA amp module that I use daily. Take this with a grain of salt, but I think over the years (well beyond even my time here) I have learned how to read impressions and reviews well, and I have a fair amount of experience. All of that suggests to me that the Empyreans and this amp would probably be a really good combination. But that is just an educated guess, be curious to hear from somebody who has tried the combination. I would really love to try the Empyreans and perhaps when I complete this degree I will treat myself.



Awesome. Thanks for your opinion. That's the impression I've gotten as well, the THX AAA amps are extremely clinical, dynamic, and detailed so I think they'll fit the warm sound of the Empyreans fairly well. I will be attending CanJam SoCal this weekend so hopefully I'll be able to hear this combination (I know I will be able to hear the Empyreans on my Q5 with the base/AM3A module and the Woo amps, but fingers crossed Monoprice will exhibit with other headphones than their own).


----------



## Sonic Defender

SammYyYyY said:


> Awesome. Thanks for your opinion. That's the impression I've gotten as well, the THX AAA amps are extremely clinical, dynamic, and detailed so I think they'll fit the warm sound of the Empyreans fairly well. I will be attending CanJam SoCal this weekend so hopefully I'll be able to hear this combination (I know I will be able to hear the Empyreans on my Q5 with the base/AM3A module and the Woo amps, but fingers crossed Monoprice will exhibit with other headphones than their own).


No worries, great that you will have a shot at hearing the amp, really hope with the Empyreans. I have the Q5 with the THX AAA AM3D module and I agree that it is voiced pretty neutral, but because it is so dynamic and competent it is far from boring. Good luck and let us know what you think if you do get a good listen. Cheers.


----------



## whohasaquestion

Received mine as well. Been very impressed with the sound so far. 

A couple of questions on the unit:

1) What's the best way to add a visible dot on the volume knob? It's really hard to tell the volume level without a visual cue. 
2) should I buy an audiophile-grade powerstrip? If so? What? It is currently plugged into a cheap Staple powerstrip.


----------



## BananaOoyoo

whohasaquestion said:


> Received mine as well. Been very impressed with the sound so far.
> 
> A couple of questions on the unit:
> 
> ...



For #2, no.


----------



## SammYyYyY

Sonic Defender said:


> No worries, great that you will have a shot at hearing the amp, really hope with the Empyreans. I have the Q5 with the THX AAA AM3D module and I agree that it is voiced pretty neutral, but because it is so dynamic and competent it is far from boring. Good luck and let us know what you think if you do get a good listen. Cheers.



Absolutely, will do. And yeah, the THX amps seem fantastic. I should probably mention too that I won't be hearing the Massdrop 789 at CanJam, I'd be hearing the Monoprice AAA 788 amp, it's nearly the same with 3W output instead of 6W, and it also has a dual AK4493 DAC integrated.


----------



## areek

whohasaquestion said:


> Received mine as well. Been very impressed with the sound so far.
> 
> A couple of questions on the unit:
> 
> ...


For no. 1. I just put a drop of white correction fluid on the dot. Very much visible.


----------



## Currawong

Sonic Defender said:


> No direct experience, although I do have a FiiO THX AAA amp module that I use daily. Take this with a grain of salt, but I think over the years (well beyond even my time here) I have learned how to read impressions and reviews well, and I have a fair amount of experience. All of that suggests to me that the Empyreans and this amp would probably be a really good combination. But that is just an educated guess, be curious to hear from somebody who has tried the combination. I would really love to try the Empyreans and perhaps when I complete this degree I will treat myself.



It's very nice with the Empyrean.  I have been pitting it against various amps, such as the Audio-gd NFB-1, Master 9 and Holo Azure with a Hugo 2 as the source. The NFB-1 is a bit smoother-sounding, and I feel the 789 might be a touch more airy, but it's pretty close. The other, $1400-1600 amps are better in various ways. For example, the Azure gives more a sense of depth and space, whereas the 789 is a bit flatter.  

In the past I felt that the Law of Diminishing Returns really started to hit hard at over $1000, but now it's closer to $500.


----------



## SammYyYyY

Currawong said:


> It's very nice with the Empyrean.  I have been pitting it against various amps, such as the Audio-gd NFB-1, Master 9 and Holo Azure with a Hugo 2 as the source. The NFB-1 is a bit smoother-sounding, and I feel the 789 might be a touch more airy, but it's pretty close. The other, $1400-1600 amps are better in various ways. For example, the Azure gives more a sense of depth and space, whereas the 789 is a bit flatter.
> 
> In the past I felt that the Law of Diminishing Returns really started to hit hard at over $1000, but now it's closer to $500.



That's excellent news for me, I'm more interested in being able to have a versatile source that isn't too expensive and instead spend the money I saved on multiple cans for different listening experiences without totally destroying the potential of TOTL cans. Sounds like the THX AAA will be the amp of choice for me if I end up going with the Empyreans. Thanks for your opinion, and keep up the great reviews .


----------



## ekkstra

Was able to get one at the latest drop in late May but will have to wait until August to be shipped though. My question is the Airist R-2R DAC a sidegrade compared to the SMSL SU-8 to pair with THX 789? Airist is live on Mass(drop) so I was curious about it. 

I'm researching the JDS Labs' El Dac to pair with the 789. If anyone has any recommended DAC to pair, I'm open to any suggestions to research.


----------



## BananaOoyoo

ekkstra said:


> Was able to get one at the latest drop in late May but will have to wait until August to be shipped though. My question is the Airist R-2R DAC a sidegrade compared to the SMSL SU-8 to pair with THX 789? Airist is live on Mass(drop) so I was curious about it.
> 
> I'm researching the JDS Labs' El Dac to pair with the 789. If anyone has any recommended DAC to pair, I'm open to any suggestions to research.



I think I’d stick with the SU-8 unless you really would like the chassis to match.

Also, the last Airist drop got delayed several months, so... there’s also that to consider


----------



## Sonic Defender

Currawong said:


> ...
> 
> In the past I felt that the Law of Diminishing Returns really started to hit hard at over $1000, but now it's closer to $500.


Absolutely, my feelings exactly.


----------



## ekkstra

BananaOoyoo said:


> I think I’d stick with the SU-8 unless you really would like the chassis to match.
> 
> Also, the last Airist drop got delayed several months, so... there’s also that to consider



Yeah I've read frequently around that the SU-8 is a solid choice to pair with the 789, especially with the fixes that were made with version 2. Wanted to see if there were any other contenders but this just further justifies keeping it for a good while. The color mismatch will probably won't bother me too much, if anything I'll paint it black! 

Thanks for the input.


----------



## Kamurah (Jun 21, 2019)

Hello all.  I am fairly new here (posting-wse...have been a lurker for a while reading up).  I just received my 789 this week (was lucky enough to get in on the Feb drop) and thought I would add my impressions to the thread.

I don't have a super high-end setup by any means, so take everything I say with a grain of salt or through your own personal preferences / lens.
So far I have tested the 789 via a Sanskrit 10th (unbalanced of course) and via a RME Babyface Pro (Balanced).  For cans I have ATH-M50s and a pair of Massdrop Hifiman HE4xx.  Unfortunately so far I have only run the 4xx's single ended as my balanced cable is faulty.  I will need to replace it and continue to evaluate.

Initial impressions:
I agree with what other posters have put forth already.  At first I encountered what I can only describe as a slight bit of disappointment.  Perhaps the frenzy / hype / praise train for this amp had me expecting something miraculous.  It does not give that to you immediately...at least it didn't to me.  I should have shelved my expectation bias before plugging the amp up.  To be honest, my first thought was..'meh...it sounds good but not THAT good'.  Again, keep in mind I am running it single ended.  I thought the power output was 'adequate' but nothing earth-shattering.  My standard listening position (dependent on source of course) is about 2 o'clock on medium gain for the HE4xx.  Take it to about 1 o'clock same setting for the M50s.

RME vs. Sanskrit for DAC:  I can hear the differences between the two...but I am not sure which I prefer at this point.  TBH the Sanskrit probably sounds a little better than the RME.  I say this because the RME presents itself as ruler-flat, and somewhat unexciting.  The Sanskrit has a bit more of an energetic signature while retaining a very smooth but extended top end.  Seriously though each one does a great job and that is an amazing testament to the SMSL...since the RME is 7x the price (but does tons more and is designed for a different application).  Keep in mind the Babyface Pro is NOT THE SAME as the ADI-2 DAC.  Different topologies completely...so please don't think my impressions with the Babyface would apply to the ADI...that DAC is in an entirely different league.

Impressions several hours in:
So like others have said, I think the 789 does some things very well.  It is indeed super analytical.  Transient response is fast to the point of being noticeable...meaning dynamic music becomes hyper dynamic.  Music you previously knew as balanced and smooth may now have some degree of 'pokey-ness' about it.  I found myself having to adjust the volume between songs.  This was a bit bizarre to me because I was not expecting it.  To give an example of how this manifests itself, I was listening to Diana Krall's "Peel Me a Grape"...and the first time she sings the word 'Talk..' it is almost too much.  Zero compression going on from the amp circuit.  Everything gets revealed and micro details are easily identified.  Within the same song I can hear the shirt rustle on the acoustic bass player.  Never heard that before and I am familiar with the song.

I don't feel like any one frequency range is recessed or accentuated.  Maybe others are better at listening and can hear this.  Everything sounds balanced yet extended to me.  No smearing in the lower midrange...which can be a real test because so much frequency info gets bunched up in that area in so many recordings.

I see why the reviewers like it.  Would be a great piece to use to judge the rest of the chain. 

Criticisms:
Ok. So why WOULDN'T you want one of these?  I think I can answer this by saying I have found myself listening to music to satisfy curiosity instead of for enjoyment.  What do I mean?  Well....it is SO revealing, I listen to songs just to see if I can pick up on details I may have missed in the past.  I spent a few years of my life as a Mastering Engineer, so maybe this is just a holdover from my days focusing on that sort of stuff.  But as good as the amp is, I am not sure 'musical' is the term anyone will put at the top of a list of attributes.

Is it clean?  Oh hell yes.  Is it accurate?  You bet...on a scale that would be hard to top.  Does it enhance my enjoyment of music?  Hmmm.....not sure yet.  Not in a way I am looking for.

This may not end up being my endgame....I like it...but 'love' is not a word I am willing to use yet.   Yet.  I will try it balanced out and with maybe a better DAC in the future just to make sure I hear what I think I am hearing.

Everyone's mileage may vary.....

Cheers


----------



## mixman

Kamurah said:


> Hello all.  I am fairly new here (posting-wse...have been a lurker for a while reading up).  I just received my 789 this week (was lucky enough to get in on the Feb drop) and thought I would add my impressions to the thread.
> 
> I don't have a super high-end setup by any means, so take everything I say with a grain of salt or through your own personal preferences / lens.
> So far I have tested the 789 via a Sanskrit 10th (unbalanced of course) and via a RME Babyface Pro (Balanced).  For cans I have ATH-M50s and a pair of Massdrop Hifiman HE4xx.  Unfortunately so far I have only run the 4xx's single ended as my balanced cable is faulty.  I will need to replace it and continue to evaluate.
> ...


Then don’t try the RME ADI 2’s headamp, which I find brighter and even more analytical than that of the THX. I think you are shooting for a warmer more euphonic sound.


----------



## Kamurah

mixman said:


> Then don’t try the RME ADI 2’s headamp, which I find brighter and even more analytical than that of the THX. I think you are shooting for a warmer more euphonic sound.



You may be right.  Any recommendations?  I have seen reviews that claim the Klipsch Heritage amp has slightly warm presentation.  Maybe something like this....


----------



## elira

Kamurah said:


> Any recommendations?


Try the Gilmore Lite mk2.


----------



## sodesuka

This amp can only sound as good as your upper chain aka the DAC really and if you have a nigh transparent DAC, it removes all other variables besides the transducers on/in your ears (and quality of the recording I guess) so if you have found your perfect phones (at least soundsig wise, don't even need to be super high end), it can truly be a bliss to listen to.

I also think that if you find ADI-2 built-in amp 'bright' then you probably want the sounds of harmonic distortion found in a tube amp in your life instead. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## PopZeus (Jun 22, 2019)

My guess is the 789 pairs best with a ladder DAC like the Airist RDAC or one of the Audio-gd R2R DACs. Because the amp is so uncolored, it makes some sense to feed it as smooth an analog signal as possible. The RDAC was announced around the time the 789 came out, and the 789 is often compared to Audio-gd's NFB-1 as similar sounding amps. There's a logic to it all.


----------



## whohasaquestion

I notice some crack, static noise coming out of 789. Granted, it could be my source, iPhone 3.5mm, but when I connect headphone directly to iPhone I don't hear those noise. 

I do keep the iphone volume at full when feeding to 789, and about 60% when feeding headphone directly. 

I realize the source can use an upgrade but is there potentially something wrong with my 789?


----------



## jsmiller58

whohasaquestion said:


> I notice some crack, static noise coming out of 789. Granted, it could be my source, iPhone 3.5mm, but when I connect headphone directly to iPhone I don't hear those noise.
> 
> I do keep the iphone volume at full when feeding to 789, and about 60% when feeding headphone directly.
> 
> I realize the source can use an upgrade but is there potentially something wrong with my 789?


Obvious debug tests would be first to use a different cable to connect the phone to the 789, then if that doesn't fix it try a different source...

Just for clarity, how are you connecting the phone to the 789 (cable and port used).


----------



## whohasaquestion

jsmiller58 said:


> Obvious debug tests would be first to use a different cable to connect the phone to the 789, then if that doesn't fix it try a different source...
> 
> Just for clarity, how are you connecting the phone to the 789 (cable and port used).



A generic 3.5mm to RCA cable but didn't have problem when used in another system.


----------



## Mkoll

It might be EMI from the phone or somewhere else. Try putting the phone on airplane mode and playing music and/or moving the system far away from other electronics.


----------



## CoFire

whohasaquestion said:


> Received mine as well. Been very impressed with the sound so far.
> 
> A couple of questions on the unit:
> 
> ...



1. I'd use a little nail polish or water soluble paint if you are concerned about removing nail polish with acetone later if for some reason you change your mind.

2. I agree no but I like to use power conditioners for all expensive electronics. Surge protectors are pretty useless imo.



whohasaquestion said:


> I notice some crack, static noise coming out of 789. Granted, it could be my source, iPhone 3.5mm, but when I connect headphone directly to iPhone I don't hear those noise.
> 
> I do keep the iphone volume at full when feeding to 789, and about 60% when feeding headphone directly.
> 
> I realize the source can use an upgrade but is there potentially something wrong with my 789?



I use my phone as a source sometimes and never run Max volume as some sources add distortion if you push them to their limits. I throttle back to about 90% or so volume.


----------



## bryceu (Jun 29, 2019)

ekkstra said:


> Yeah I've read frequently around that the SU-8 is a solid choice to pair with the 789, especially with the fixes that were made with version 2. Wanted to see if there were any other contenders but this just further justifies keeping it for a good while. The color mismatch will probably won't bother me too much, if anything I'll paint it black!
> 
> Thanks for the input.


I'm quite happy with the SMSL-SU8 and 789 pairing. Compared to the Modi Multibit via RCA to the 789, the SMSL via balanced to the 789 provides more a more dimensional sound. Extra detail in the non-foreground sounds is noticeable, as well as a very black background. The Mimby has slightly more bass texture to me, but in all other areas the SMSL-SU8 does great!


----------



## sonance

There seems to be a lot of activity and interest in this amp, but it was produced for a short window on Massdrop/Drop - I'm surprised no one else in the headamp space (other than Monoprice) seems to be looking into making amps using this family of chips in the < $1k range.


----------



## protoss (Jun 29, 2019)

sonance said:


> There seems to be a lot of activity and interest in this amp, but it was produced for a short window on Massdrop/Drop - I'm surprised no one else in the headamp space (other than Monoprice) seems to be looking into making amps using this family of chips in the < $1k range.



Technically many amps complete with this amp thou... Its because of those 3 letter words that overrides anything sadly.

T.H.X - Thats all, its the t.h.x implementation that is the rave. I talk to some people, they said they can make stuff thats better than using t.h.x design. The future will tell if t.h.x design was just a faze or not...

Head-amp Gilmore - Excellent
Rupert Neve Designs RNHP 1 - This is actually better
Topping - Anything from them is pretty good
JDS LAB Atom - $100 is a killer.

Can name you 25 amps above $1000 that is better than the thx aaa 789. Beyond better.

So yea. Many amps. Again its those 3 letters. And the price of *$350. *i also notice its because of the scarcity of this amp thats driving interest in this.

I must note that this is not saying this amp is not great. It is amazing for its price and performances.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 29, 2019)

protoss said:


> Technically many amps complete with this amp thou... Its because of those 3 letter words that overrides anything sadly.
> 
> T.H.X - Thats all, its the t.h.x implementation that is the rave. I talk to some people, they said they can make stuff thats better than using t.h.x design. The future will tell if t.h.x design was just a faze or not...
> 
> ...


You make a good point.  I really don't understand the hype with the amp. I don't think the hype is based purely on sound.  It's a bunch of superfluous stuff around it that's really pushing it.


----------



## jsmiller58

SilverEars said:


> You make a good point.  I really don't understand the hype with the amp. I don't think the hype is based purely on sound.  It's a bunch of superfluous stuff around it that's really pushing it.



Not disputing but inquiring...  

Have you heard the 789?  What have you compared it to, and how does it stack up? 

I do have the 789 (as well as the JDS Atom, DX7S, and the DX3 Pro), and have sold an Aune X7S and an Audio GD NFB-11.38.  I find it hard myself to describe audio, but I do enjoy and learn from the descriptions of others.  

As to me, 99% of my desktop listening is out of my 789, for whatever that is worth.


----------



## Currawong

Given the price and performance it's excellent value. It isn't threatening $1400+ amps in outright capability though. 

The ironically paradoxical aspect of this amp is that it _is_ very revealing, so it will only be as good as the source feeding it, so the budget-conscious user who buys one will not get the most out of it with a similarly priced budget DAC. IMO anyway. A Mojo + Schiit Wyrd would arguably be better value, both sonically and technically.


----------



## Fatdoi

Currawong said:


> Given the price and performance it's excellent value. It isn't threatening $1400+ amps in outright capability though.
> 
> The ironically paradoxical aspect of this amp is that it _is_ very revealing, so it will only be as good as the source feeding it, so the budget-conscious user who buys one will not get the most out of it with a similarly priced budget DAC. IMO anyway. A Mojo + Schiit Wyrd would arguably be better value, both sonically and technically.



See how much Pro idsd can squeeze this 789 out when it arrives...


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 4, 2019)

Currawong said:


> Given the price and performance it's excellent value. It isn't threatening $1400+ amps in outright capability though.
> 
> The ironically paradoxical aspect of this amp is that it _is_ very revealing, so it will only be as good as the source feeding it, so the budget-conscious user who buys one will not get the most out of it with a similarly priced budget DAC. IMO anyway. A Mojo + Schiit Wyrd would arguably be better value, both sonically and technically.



Spot on, really.  All "systems" have to be designed to ensure no weak links...   Amdahl's Law provides a great way of thinking about this in computing, and easily extensible to any system.

Not a chance I would ever spend $1400 on an amp...  . Of course, I do not in any way begrudge anyone who would spend it, just that I don't have that sort of discretionary income to throw around.


----------



## Davesrose

Currawong said:


> Given the price and performance it's excellent value. It isn't threatening $1400+ amps in outright capability though.
> 
> The ironically paradoxical aspect of this amp is that it _is_ very revealing, so it will only be as good as the source feeding it, so the budget-conscious user who buys one will not get the most out of it with a similarly priced budget DAC. IMO anyway. A Mojo + Schiit Wyrd would arguably be better value, both sonically and technically.



I would be curious to add this amp to see if it's any different from my good solid state headphone stages.  The last time it dropped, it was about 45 minutes before I got back from home after work to order.  I'll certainly not support all the folks contributing to the artificial demand this amp is garnering.  That it advertises no distortion, only gain...I think I already have that with my Benchmark's headphone stage and SE SS iCan stage.  I'm guessing I'll be less blown away with it...and when it comes to best THX headphone designs, there must be a reason the Benchmark HPA4 is a class of its own.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jun 30, 2019)

Davesrose said:


> I would be curious to add this amp to see if it's any different from my good solid state headphone stages.  The last time it dropped, it was about 45 minutes before I got back from home after work to order.  I'll certainly not support all the folks contributing to the artificial demand this amp is garnering.  That it advertises no distortion, only gain...I think I already have that with my Benchmark's headphone stage and SE SS iCan stage.  I'm guessing I'll be less blown away with it...and when it comes to best THX headphone designs, there must be a reason the Benchmark HPA4 is a class of its own.



At the risk of starting an argument, which is the absolutely furthest thing from my mind, what do you mean by "I'll certainly not support all the folks contributing to the artificial demand this amp is garnering."

Who is contributing to the" artificial demand"?  How are they generating "artificial demand"? And, along the same lines, what exactly constitutes "artificial demand"?

The 789 seems to be an amp that has largely been well received by recognized reviewers and by regular people who have spent their own money.  And there is definitely very real demand, as anyone who has tried to get the amp can attest to. 

Are there better amps than this one?  I am certain that would be a resounding H-E-Double Hockey Sticks Yes.  At this price point?  Hmmm...  I would love to hear about those.


----------



## ayang02

I love the Chord Qutest & 789 pairing. In my opinion, vastly superior than the Mojo & 789 pairing in so many ways. I have since sold my Mojo after acquiring the Qutest.

If I were to "upgrade" the 789, I don't see how I can really do that without spending over $2k (looking at the Phonitor X for example).


----------



## Currawong

I've been using the Hugo 2 with it with excellent results too. I was thinking more of people spending under $1k when I posted.


----------



## Davesrose

jsmiller58 said:


> At the risk of starting an argument, which is the absolutely furthest thing from my mind, what do you mean by "I'll certainly not support all the folks contributing to the artificial demand this amp is garnering."
> 
> Who is contributing to the" artificial demand"?  How are they generating "artificial demand"? And, along the same lines, what exactly constitutes "artificial demand"?
> 
> ...



You're points are very valid.  My problem with this amp is that it seems to be artificially inflated in value: while it could be a good sample for $400+ amp, when it becomes available, folks keep buying it (I've seen folks reveling in buying way more units to sell at higher prices).   So if you're not one of the drop members having it at $400, you then might have to buy at $700+ value.  From what I'm gathering, I'm still wondering if it's worth $400


----------



## ayang02

Currawong said:


> I've been using the Hugo 2 with it with excellent results too. I was thinking more of people spending under $1k when I posted.



I totally agree with your assessment that the 789 is very revealing and you won't really maximize its potential without pairing it with a nice DAC potentially costing a lot more than the 789. Qutest/Hugo2 or RME ADI-2 comes to mind.

I was thinking if I were to upgrade the 789, it would probably be because I somehow need better driving capabilities out of my amp (I don't think I currently have a headphone with that need). On the market today, I am probably looking at amps costing in the $2500 to $3000 range. I wonder if there are amps in the sub $2k range that's decidedly better than the 789.


----------



## Currawong (Jun 30, 2019)

Of what I have here, the Master 9 (which then suggests the HE9) and the Holo Azure.  I just saw someone has a HE9 in the classifieds, so the timing is good if you're in the US.


----------



## mixman

Currawong said:


> Of what I have here, the Master 9 (which then suggests the HE9) and the Holo Azure.  I just saw someone has a HE9 in the classifieds, so the timing is good if you're in the US.


Unfortunately, I see the Holo Azure seems to be somewhat underpowered for the price. If I do upgrade to a significantly more expensive amp than the THX, I would like it to not only sound better but have more power, in case I do want to drive headphones like the LCD 4 or other difficult to drive headphones.


----------



## ekkstra

bryceu said:


> I'm quite happy with the SMSL-SU8 and 789 pairing. Compared to the Modi Multibit via RCA to the 789, the SMSL via balanced to the 789 provides more a more dimensional sound. Extra detail in the non-foreground sounds is noticeable, as well as a very black background. The Mimby has slightly more bass texture to me, but in all other areas the SMSL-SU8 does great!



That's great! Mine won't be here for a while, received a delay email from Mass(drop) about not being shipped til September. In the mean time though...


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 2, 2019)

$350 is all it's worth and the Monoprice is also overpriced. Hell the LCX-SDAC is a $250 amp at best. I also hate that SE is an afterthought on these amps.


----------



## bequietjk

Has anyone used the 789 as the output for music production?  All the talk about precise neutrality has me giddy...


----------



## alpovs

FireLion said:


> $350 is all it's worth and the Monoprice is also overpriced.


$400 is the latest price.


----------



## omegaorgun

alpovs said:


> $400 is the latest price.



That sucks but anymore and it's not worth it.


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

I saw someone selling a 789 second hand for $1000.... That's a pure slap in the face if I've ever seen one.


----------



## kelvinwsy

I hate these profiteers who book the 789 and hock them for an obscene markup even before delivery. They should be banned from buying on Massdrop/Drop!
Audio is a hobby for music (ahem maybe equipment too) Lovers. Not for profit skimmers


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i agree drop should limit these to ONE per account. i saw someone who listed 10 of them. as he sold them he kept raising the price the last two went up t0 1000$ each i messaged him just being curious and he said he had another dozen on order.


----------



## bequietjk

It's ok!  There are plenty of new amps on their way to production as we speak 

I believe the 789 brought way to a new level of performance and is encouraging all creators/companies out there to push for such an excellence in a product.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 4, 2019)

Not addressing anyone in particular, but just general thoughts...

The 789 is, from the perspective of this “mid-fi kind of guy” pretty good.  Quite transparent (I like that - if I want coloration I will get a Loki, use digital EQ, or simply get that from my headphones).  More power than should ever need to be poured into any ears (at least if you want them to stay healthy).

How much is the 789 worth?  Well, putting aside the price gouging, the question becomes, what does it cost to get the same audio quality, power output, and connectivity options?  I think at $400 the 789 is more than fairly priced - it is a steal.  If you know better, it would be great if you would say what amps have the measured quality, the output power, and the connectivity (balanced, SE, 3.3mm) that the 789 does for a comparable or better price.

As to “resellers”...  Given the short supply, I agree that Drop should limit the purchases to one or two per account, but there are probably some complexities to that (it is always easier to say something than to actually do it).  Let’s keep in mind that as abhorrent as the practice of scalping these units actually is, the fact people will pay the markup is an indication of how well priced these units are.

Honestly I think Massdrop made a mistake and under priced this model.  If they can get the volumes up that will benefit us all.  And, as previously mentioned, this unit is going to push others to improve their products in the future.


----------



## Nitronium (Jul 5, 2019)

From previous posts it seems that a 789 should be nearly identical to a 788 in terms of sound quality, just with more power? Is the difference in sound "noticeable"? Not if there's some 0.00005% on an oscilloscope or something, but actual differences where one can listen in a song and point out. In such case, since Massdrop is slow and everything (I really don't want month long delivery, and not knowing when they will stock up), would it be reasonable to just get the Monoprice 788 for LCD-X since they are easy to drive?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

ive owned both sold one. which one did i keep? the 789. sold the 788. im my opinion the 789 does sound better then the 788 not just because of power but overall. the 788 was not at all bad but for the money i would personally rather have the 789.


----------



## muths66

So next order will be next year?


----------



## elira

muths66 said:


> So next order will be next year?


They said they cannot produce more this year, but that doesn't mean they won't do a drop this year with shipping next year.


----------



## kumar402

elira said:


> They said they cannot produce more this year, but that doesn't mean they won't do a drop this year with shipping next year.


I feel I should have got 2-3 units for fellow head-fier. Sold to guys here for non profit offcourse.
I got notification when the drop was live and could have easily got few units but didn't buy it as it never crossed my mind that few guys who are interested couldn't have got it due to work as the drop went live during office hours.


----------



## Kamurah

I feel like I need to revisit this thread and give an addendum...maybe eat a little crow.

In my earlier review of the THX AAA 789 I mentioned I was running my pair of HE-4xx's single ended.  I have since acquired a balanced cable from Periapt and this has somewhat altered my overall impression of the amp.

Running this amp via the balanced out is actually a quite enjoyable experience.  I am finding a subtle but identifiable improvement in channel separation, and it seems like the soundstage has widened ever so slightly.  This seems most apparent in the bass frequencies, which remain tight and controlled, but now have what sounds like to me a wider presentation.

Likewise, even though reproduction through all frequencies remains incredibly clean...there is a hint of added energy that is really very nice.

Nothing objective or scientific about these observations....just perception.  But based on the amp's performance via balanced output...I am pretty sure it will be staying right here.

Cheers


----------



## Fatdoi

Kamurah said:


> I feel like I need to revisit this thread and give an addendum...maybe eat a little crow.
> 
> In my earlier review of the THX AAA 789 I mentioned I was running my pair of HE-4xx's single ended.  I have since acquired a balanced cable from Periapt and this has somewhat altered my overall impression of the amp.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what happened when I changed from 3.5mm to 2.5mm balanced.. Subtle yet obvious not night and day others may hope for..


----------



## Cirkustanz

I'm so getting tired of waiting.  I got in on the May drop, so waiting a month just to see the email that it will be delayed another month sucked.  I'm expecting it to be delayed again, from what I read from previous posts.

I really hate massdrop, and this will be the last purchase I make from them.


----------



## sennfan83261

Cirkustanz said:


> I'm so getting tired of waiting.  I got in on the May drop, so waiting a month just to see the email that it will be delayed another month sucked.  I'm expecting it to be delayed again, from what I read from previous posts.
> 
> I really hate massdrop, and this will be the last purchase I make from them.


Us February folks had to wait too, and so it goes.


----------



## bequietjk

When you buy into this you accept the fact that you are not going to get it very fast!  Delays happen and when products are pushed this far out till shipment that's just extra time that setbacks can happen. 

Be patient.  Don't get worked up over it.  If you want one earlier they are readily available but at marked up prices from people who have purchased multiple units in the past.  You already know what they're selling for.  This is the only option for many individuals who did not have the chance to buy one and get on the shipping list like those of you waiting for yours.

Enjoy your music with the rig that you have now!  This is the waiting game you must play and in the end it will be worth it.

Stay blessed.


----------



## Cirkustanz (Jul 14, 2019)

Yeah, funny thing is...I have access to one right now.  Someone I know bought one in a prior drop and a few weeks later they got relocated.  He's borrowing some portable gear from me that he needs since he's in temporary housing for a while, and I'm borrowing his amp.

*Here's to hoping the construction of his house keeps getting delayed!  *I would be sad having to go back to my prior amp.


----------



## Nitronium

May I suggest the monoprice 788?


----------



## Fatdoi

Cirkustanz said:


> I'm so getting tired of waiting.  I got in on the May drop, so waiting a month just to see the email that it will be delayed another month sucked.  I'm expecting it to be delayed again, from what I read from previous posts.
> 
> I really hate massdrop, and this will be the last purchase I make from them.


This amp is well known for its scarcity and long delays and delivery... I though by now everyone who's lucky enough to be part of the drop would accept the waiting period...


----------



## whohasaquestion

Cirkustanz said:


> I'm so getting tired of waiting.  I got in on the May drop, so waiting a month just to see the email that it will be delayed another month sucked.  I'm expecting it to be delayed again, from what I read from previous posts.
> 
> I really hate massdrop, and this will be the last purchase I make from them.



I got in on the May drop too. What's your source of delayed delivery?


----------



## Cirkustanz

whohasaquestion said:


> I got in on the May drop too. What's your source of delayed delivery?



Massdrop emailed everyone a few weeks back that the planned ship date of the end of august is now moved to september.


----------



## whohasaquestion (Jul 14, 2019)

Cirkustanz said:


> Massdrop emailed everyone a few weeks back that the planned ship date of the end of august is now moved to september.



I did not get that memo.

Mine still says Aug 30 as estimated ship date.


----------



## prymortal

whohasaquestion said:


> I did not get that memo.
> 
> Mine still says Aug 30 as estimated ship date.


Thats a placeholder, mine says the same. but they E-mailed saying its changed to September as Cirkustanz says.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i got the email also i believe they gave out a 10$ coupon to those who are delayed. or i think thats where it came from.


----------



## RestlessZombi

whohasaquestion said:


> I did not get that memo.
> 
> Mine still says Aug 30 as estimated ship date.



Mine still says 30th August too, but I got mine as part of the April Drop that happened about a week before the drop that most seem to be discussing. I haven't received any emails either. The update is saw was that there was 500 Units for the April Drop and 1000 for the May Drop, I don't know if it matters when you made the purchase.


----------



## dweekie

whohasaquestion said:


> I did not get that memo.
> 
> Mine still says Aug 30 as estimated ship date.



Got the email on June 27. Check your spam.


----------



## whohasaquestion

RestlessZombi said:


> Mine still says 30th August too, but I got mine as part of the April Drop that happened about a week before the drop that most seem to be discussing. I haven't received any emails either. The update is saw was that there was 500 Units for the April Drop and 1000 for the May Drop, I don't know if it matters when you made the purchase.


I think you’re right. I got in on the April drop, not later. But i am surprised they also got aug 30 as ship date.


----------



## RestlessZombi

whohasaquestion said:


> I think you’re right. I got in on the April drop, not later. But i am surprised they also got aug 30 as ship date.



Well, to be specific the update I read was the one below.. If you bought in the April Drop its said to be Early/Mid August and the May Drop was Mid/Late August. I would guess that maybe the dates both did move a little but its still August for the April Drop hence why there was no email. The May Drop is now September hence them receiving the emails. Note that this update was posted the day *before *the May Drop so speak of the intention to deliver in August.
_
"Good news everyone! We’ve managed to move the production schedule for our THX amps up, and now have 1,000 more units scheduled to arrive in mid/late August. We’ll be opening this batch up for presale, tomorrow (May 30) morning at 10 AM PDT. This batch does not affect the 500 units sold in April, which should be shipping in early/mid August. Since we’ve moved this up from our Q4 2019 delivery schedule, these are currently the last production units scheduled for the year. We’re looking into increasing this, but this may be the last we see of the THX for a while."_


----------



## Cirkustanz

Right.  To be clear, just because your estimated ship date on the massdrop site says August 30th, doesn't mean that is current.  

As I'm sure most people in this thread would agree, MD doesn't really make it very clear (other than the email) about the delay in shipment.  Maybe I'm dumb. Maybe I'm just drunk.  But when I go to massdrop, and finally find the transactions page it still displays the original, and incorrect, estimated ship date of August 30th, 2019.  

(*hover your mouse over your profile icon to see the transactions link,  but do not click it because if you click it, you won't see the transactions section...because that would be too simple.  This is 2019 afterall.)*

In that section, if you have a purchase date of May 30th, while it says an estimated ship date of august 30th, you might not have seen the email that was sent out on June 27th, that contained this:


_Hi,
We have an update on your Massdrop x THX AAA 789 Linear Amplifier. The headphones are currently in production and while we’re excited to ship the final product to you in the coming months, unfortunately, we’re tracking behind our original estimated ship date and now expect to begin shipping in late September.
We apologize for the delay. If you’d prefer not to wait the additional time, you can cancel your order on your transactions page: https://drop.com/transactions.
If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. We look forward to you receiving and enjoying your amps in the coming months._

Yeah, I know, it says "headphones".  They meant headphone amplifier of course.


----------



## prymortal

Starting *tomorrow, Tuesday, July 23rd at 12:00PM PDT*, we’ll be opening up the page for pre-orders.

There’s only one inherent difference with these units as they will be *Drop* branded, as you’ll be able to see from the updated images on the Overview page.

This won’t affect those who purchased their amps at the end of May. Those are still slated to ship in August at their respective times. This batch of amps, however, are expected to ship before the year’s end, but I’ll confirm with all of you once that’s settled. The amps *will still be $400*.

A ton of you have requested this amp, and we’ve been working diligently to be able to provide it to more and more of you. Here’s hoping we get these into your hands. Take care, and if you have any questions, let me know.
Thanks, Duncan
EDIT: Looks like the new batch will be shipping *November 15th*



https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk/2475654


----------



## savaloco

prymortal said:


> Starting *tomorrow, Tuesday, July 23rd at 12:00PM PDT*, we’ll be opening up the page for pre-orders.
> 
> There’s only one inherent difference with these units as they will be *Drop* branded, as you’ll be able to see from the updated images on the Overview page.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## whohasaquestion

Wait. I thought the last drop (1000 units) was supposed to be the last for this year. 

So another drop tomorrow? How?


----------



## kumar402

Not sure why there is so much hype about this amp.


----------



## tamleo

kumar402 said:


> Not sure why there is so much hype about this amp.


Can you tell me a ss amp sounding better at $400 please?:d


----------



## Fatdoi

kumar402 said:


> Not sure why there is so much hype about this amp.


From most reviews this amp is punching above its weight compared to 50-100% more expensive competitors... Not sure if hype can continue after this long since released...


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

where is the pic showing the new branding i dont see it? i wonder if the orders pending will also be branded drop when they come in later this year. luckily it doesnt say it on the front drop is such a dumb branding imo. a shame still they changed it.


----------



## RestlessZombi (Jul 23, 2019)

Quick Edit in Paint


----------



## kumar402

tamleo said:


> Can you tell me a ss amp sounding better at $400 please?:d


I don't have any SS amp with me at this point of time apart from THX AAA 789 so I cant comment on this however if you have HD6x0 series or ZMF headphones, I would rather prefer Massdrop ZDT Jr which is available in Massdrop. In fact with recent drop in price even Liquid Platinum is now available for $615 and is much more musical amp then 789 or get Lyr3 at 499. I would rather get the amp available in market rather then pressing F5 on massdrop page to buy an amp and feel disappointed after it gets out of stock in like 5 mins.789 is very clean amp and powerful but I feel the soundstage is 2D and the midrange is veiled. ZMF Verite has this big soundstage but out of 789 it is more in 2D and the height just collapses. I have 789 in my desk but my headphones are either plugged into LP or ZDT Jr. I may end up selling it after getting my ECP DSHA-3F. However I would say it has this relaxed sound and the treble is never peaky and that I like about it.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jul 23, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> However I would say it has this relaxed sound and the treble is never peaky and that I like about it.


Never peaky even with your HD800s, or never peaky beyond the sound signature of a particular can?  Anyways, for myself, I enjoy the THX AAA 789 with planars (HE500 in particular), but I much prefer to listen to my HD6XX on my modded Darkvoice 336SE ('49 Syl 6SN7GT "chrome dome" + '50s RCA 6AS7G).  My HD6XX on the 789 sounds smooth but a bit too boring.  FWIW, I almost always use the balanced output of the THX AAA 789 for the extra power it provides.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 23, 2019)

its live get em fast. meh they put the "drop" logo on the front now. i preff it only on the back. it will look different now from the rest of all the stack (i have cth, lcx, sdac, and 789) this is the only one now that says drop.


----------



## justrest

It's live again. 

https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier#overview


----------



## Cirkustanz

To confirm, the message about the may purchases shipping in august was a mistake.  They later corrected the message to that, since they are currently planned to ship in september.





prymortal said:


> Starting *tomorrow, Tuesday, July 23rd at 12:00PM PDT*, we’ll be opening up the page for pre-orders.
> 
> There’s only one inherent difference with these units as they will be *Drop* branded, as you’ll be able to see from the updated images on the Overview page.
> 
> ...


----------



## MacMan31

Okay so I just placed my order for the THX 789. I was thinking about purchasing the Balance Grace SDAC but I noticed it uses the same DAC as my Fiio K3. Could I just use the 3.5mm line out on my Fiio K3 into the THX 789 RCA inputs?


----------



## Cirkustanz

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so I just placed my order for the THX 789. I was thinking about purchasing the Balance Grace SDAC but I noticed it uses the same DAC as my Fiio K3. Could I just use the 3.5mm line out on my Fiio K3 into the THX 789 RCA inputs?



Yes.


----------



## MacMan31

Cirkustanz said:


> Yes.



Hmm okay. Well I figured out that the line out on the Fiio K3 is adjustable by the volume knob. Doesn't that mean it's a pre-out? Either way what would be the best volume level to set the Fiio K3 to when using it with another amp such as the 789?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so I just placed my order for the THX 789. I was thinking about purchasing the Balance Grace SDAC but I noticed it uses the same DAC as my Fiio K3. Could I just use the 3.5mm line out on my Fiio K3 into the THX 789 RCA inputs?


is the fiio balanced? i can say first hand the difference running the 789 balanced is pretty huge. i dont have that fiio so im not sure.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

im REALLY surprised the drop is still going i though for sure they would have sold out by now


----------



## MacMan31

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> is the fiio balanced? i can say first hand the difference running the 789 balanced is pretty huge. i dont have that fiio so im not sure.



The Fiio has a balance headphone jack. A 2.5mm jack. But I'm talking about the line out output on the back of the Fiio K3. That way I can use only the DAC in the Fiio K3 and pair it with the THX 789.


----------



## RestlessZombi (Jul 24, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> The Fiio has a balance headphone jack. A 2.5mm jack. But I'm talking about the line out output on the back of the Fiio K3. That way I can use only the DAC in the Fiio K3 and pair it with the THX 789.



Fiio describe the Line out as "Adjustable" which does indicate its a Pre-Out and not real Line out. You need to disconnect the headphones to use it and I would then just Max the volume. Check for distortion in the sound but you should be ok, if so just lower the volume a little.

Balanced inputs would be noticeably better but you don't want to use the headphone out as the point of line out is as a pure signal without the added colouration you get with things like Bass Boost for example.

Just use a quality 3.5mm to RCA Input.


----------



## prymortal

Cirkustanz said:


> To confirm, the message about the may purchases shipping in august was a mistake.  They later corrected the message to that, since they are currently planned to ship in September.


Good spotting i actually didn't notice that part & I am part of that drop.


----------



## Trunks159

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> im REALLY surprised the drop is still going i though for sure they would have sold out by now


Dont know all the specifics of Drop but they're branded/marketed as Drop + THX 789. Just like their Massdrop x products (Like Elex and 6XX), its different than a drop, I think their here to stay for a while due to the high demand ( I mean they'll run out at some point but I'm sure they have many more than last time)


----------



## kumar402

Finally drop made sure whoever want to buy this amp get their hand on it. Drop still active and almost 4.5K amp sold since yesterday. I guess with new label the number started from 1.
It will curb the inflated price of this amp in ebay and all other second hand market place.


----------



## savaloco

kumar402 said:


> Finally drop made sure whoever want to buy this amp get their hand on it. Drop still active and almost 4.5K amp sold since yesterday. I guess with new label the number started from 1.
> It will curb the inflated price of this amp in ebay and all other second hand market place.


----------



## savaloco

Yep, wonder how many cancellation requests will be made by folks who had  ordered multiple units to try and cash in on the trend?

What makes this amp attractive is its' retail price.  Going north of $600 iopens up other options in the used market.   I saw a used unit go for $680 USD on ebay.... nuts!


----------



## Marlowe

kumar402 said:


> Finally drop made sure whoever want to buy this amp get their hand on it. Drop still active and almost 4.5K amp sold since yesterday. I guess with new label the number started from 1.
> It will curb the inflated price of this amp in ebay and all other second hand market place.


I'm pretty sure that the 4.5K number is the total number of amps sold over all drops, not just the currently active one. If you look at the number sold for other items that have had numerous different drops over time (like the 6XX, 4XX and the Fostex headphones) and that is clearly how it is done.


----------



## savaloco

Nope... only 41 units sold when I purchased mine.


----------



## alpovs

Marlowe said:


> I'm pretty sure that the 4.5K number is the total number...


No. When I received the notification and opened the site I saw "126 sold".

Now I see 4,4k sold and it hasn't changed since 5-6 hours ago. Looks like whoever wanted it got it.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

4.4k is in fact the total overall sales. when i got mine yesterdaty it was at 261 then it got up to 467 then i checked 5 min later and it was at 3.9k so there is no way in 5 min it went from 467 to nearly 4k in 5 minutes. im shocked at how many they are selling this time when every other time it was limited to like 500 or 1000. finally the people buying a dozen to flip em on ebay will be halted. i bought a few myself this time but only to get them for close people i know who would not have otherwise done so, and if for some reason they dont want one ill put them up here.


----------



## mixman

Maybe with more of these in the wild and freely selling, Monoprice might take hint and keep the liquid platinum price close at $615 longer. Not only that, maybe other manufacturers will start taking a hint and come out with more capable amps <$500.


----------



## kumar402

Marlowe said:


> I'm pretty sure that the 4.5K number is the total number of amps sold over all drops, not just the currently active one. If you look at the number sold for other items that have had numerous different drops over time (like the 6XX, 4XX and the Fostex headphones) and that is clearly how it is done.


When I went in to see the drop no. Was 31 or something by evening it became like 2 or 3K


----------



## themuna (Jul 25, 2019)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> 4.4k is in fact the total overall sales. when i got mine yesterdaty it was at 261 then it got up to 467 then i checked 5 min later and it was at 3.9k so there is no way in 5 min it went from 467 to nearly 4k in 5 minutes. im shocked at how many they are selling this time when every other time it was limited to like 500 or 1000. finally the people buying a dozen to flip em on ebay will be halted. i bought a few myself this time but only to get them for close people i know who would not have otherwise done so, and if for some reason they dont want one ill put them up here.




I doubt they are going to be able to stock that many if they've had trouble getting up to 1000 so far.  It's more likely that most people are going to get a "we regret to inform you" email in a few months...  Hopefully not, but everything points to that.  I got on the drop when the number was around 500 and it hit the 4.3 number when i got back on at night.  I just want one.  I really just want one...

Edit:I actually think they just added the total sales onto the number from this group.


----------



## 329161

Haha, jack up the price 50 bucks just cause they can. I'll pass just on principle.


----------



## themuna

kumar402 said:


> When I went in to see the drop no. Was 31 or something by evening it became like 2 or 3K



I think they just added the prior sales onto the number. Usually a product shows the total sales for all time.  Pretty sure the low number was just a simple mistake.


----------



## themuna (Jul 25, 2019)

dcfac73 said:


> Haha, jack up the price 50 bucks just cause they can. I'll pass just on principle.



I mean, Audeze boosted the price of the LCD-2C by $200 after the introductory price just because they could. Prices going up and down a little bit is kinda normal, I think.


The only difference with Drop is that they are the only seller of their products so we don't attribute to the seller instead of the manufacturer.


----------



## domho7

Hi for preorders when does Massdrop start charging. Tks.


----------



## 329161

themuna said:


> I mean, Audeze boosted the price of the LCD-2C by $200 after the introductory price just because they could. Prices going up and down a little bit is kinda normal, I think.
> 
> 
> The only difference with Drop is that they are the only seller of their products so we don't attribute to the seller instead of the manufacturer.


They're cashing in on the internet hypetrain and people make excuses for it. They didn't mention that they were offering it at an introductory price before. Audeze did.


----------



## alpovs

domho7 said:


> Hi for preorders when does Massdrop start charging. Tks.


It says right there: "After this product run ends, payment will be collected and orders will be submitted to the vendor up front, making all orders final." Now it says "28 days left". So, you will be charged no later than in 28 days. Or earlier if they run out of stock.


----------



## Roasty

I've just joined the latest drop for the 789.

Apologies if this has been asked before, but didn't manage to get past the first 14 pages of this thread without my kids bugging me.. 

What dac are most of u pairing the 789 with? The Airist r2r dac on drop? 

I'll likely be using the 789 and dac in office with an iem or closed back.


----------



## Fatdoi (Jul 26, 2019)

Roasty said:


> I've just joined the latest drop for the 789.
> 
> Apologies if this has been asked before, but didn't manage to get past the first 14 pages of this thread without my kids bugging me..
> 
> ...


Depends if you like XLR connection.. SMSL SU-8 quite popular... My pick is Topping D70


----------



## adeadcrab (Jul 26, 2019)

Roasty said:


> I've just joined the latest drop for the 789.
> 
> Apologies if this has been asked before, but didn't manage to get past the first 14 pages of this thread without my kids bugging me..
> 
> ...



When the 789 arrives, Topping D50 and/or Soekris 1321.


----------



## adeadcrab

Fatdoi said:


> My pick is Topping D75



That's an interesting choice!


----------



## Fatdoi (Jul 26, 2019)

adeadcrab said:


> That's an interesting choice!


Oops.. Typo.. D70... Corrected. Thanks


----------



## Roasty

Thanks for the recommendations! 

Am leaning towards the Topping D70. Well mainly for looks and the XLR outputs. Considered smsl su-8 but too bad it only comes in silver.


----------



## PopZeus (Jul 26, 2019)

From what I've read, the need to use the XLR input is pretty minimal given the amp's topology. It's not a fully balanced amp, so signals get down converted and upconverted before moving to the amp stage. My DAC actually sounds different when using the balanced outs vs SE, so I want the bassier single-ended output to feed the 789 when it arrives. I'm definitely opting to use SE RCAs over 4-pin XLR. For this amp, I'd definitely go for the Airist RDAC or another ladder DAC like the Denafrips Ares. I plan to use the Audio-gd R2R 1 as my source. Given the sorta revealing nature of this amp, I'm thinking a smooth, analog, life-like source is best. You (and by "you" I mean "me") want everything to sound as alive and breathing as possible.


----------



## Zachik

I personally do not own the THX, but I do own the LCX and CTH - the RDAC is a very good DAC for those.
I know for a fact that the good folks from Drop are testing their own DAC with all their amps for good synergy...
Bottom line: you cannot go wrong IMHO with the RDAC.


----------



## loki993

They changed their name but not their ridiculous lead times...not shipping until november kiss my butt. They know they can sell every one they make so why not just make a run and have them in stock like they did before. I refuse to pay up front for their production runs, its not supposed to really be a crowdfunding site anymore right? That was part of the reason for the stupid name change right? Also the drop logo in the unit looks like crap.


----------



## mixman

loki993 said:


> They changed their name but not their ridiculous lead times...not shipping until november kiss my butt. They know they can sell every one they make so why not just make a run and have them in stock like they did before. I refuse to pay up front for their production runs, its not supposed to really be a crowdfunding site anymore right? That was part of the reason for the stupid name change right? Also the drop logo in the unit looks like crap.


 Gotta agree, I would never agree with the long runs on shipping I almost guarantee you would be able to pick one up used here for a decent price in those four months or so.


----------



## themuna

Fatdoi said:


> Depends if you like XLR connection.. SMSL SU-8 quite popular... My pick is Topping D70


I 


Roasty said:


> I've just joined the latest drop for the 789.
> 
> Apologies if this has been asked before, but didn't manage to get past the first 14 pages of this thread without my kids bugging me..
> 
> ...



I'm gonna use my LCX + SDAC with it for now.


----------



## loki993

mixman said:


> Gotta agree, I would never agree with the long runs on shipping I almost guarantee you would be able to pick one up used here for a decent price in those four months or so.



Its the single biggest gripe Ive had with them, aside from the name change. They make good stuff but the waits are terrible. I get it when something is basically being crowdfunded but with a popular product like this or before th the HD6xx its annoying and unnecessary. They stock the 6xx now but before it was like this they would have a drop that would sell out in a couple hours and you'd have to wait 6 months more more to get your stuff.


----------



## themuna

dcfac73 said:


> They're cashing in on the internet hypetrain and people make excuses for it. They didn't mention that they were offering it at an introductory price before. Audeze did.




Hey, I've always been critical of Massdrop/Drop and I don't like their business practices even if I like their products. I'm just saying that this isn't all that egregious. They usually offer products at a lower introductory price so even if they didn't mention it this time, I don't think going up by $50 is a complete spit on our faces.

We shouldn't be paying for this months ahead of time so that's messed up on their part. They shouldn't be throwing their new logo on items after they said specifically that they wouldn't do that to any pre-existing products so that's garbage too. And I think all this nonsense with the "limited runs" is just to push sales and allow them to scare people into buying further and further into the future.  Trust me, I can keep going with my issues with Drop.

I'm just saying that to me *personally*, the $50 increase doesn't seem egregious. That bit, in a vacuum, seems like a price fluctuation. It was unnecessary and definitely shows their money grabbing side but it's modest enough that I won't see it as a slap in the face like the other things I mentioned.


----------



## phthora

themuna said:


> Hey, I've always been critical of Massdrop/Drop and I don't like their business practices even if I like their products. I'm just saying that this isn't all that egregious. They usually offer products at a lower introductory price so even if they didn't mention it this time, I don't think going up by $50 is a complete spit on our faces.
> 
> We shouldn't be paying for this months ahead of time so that's messed up on their part. They shouldn't be throwing their new logo on items after they said specifically that they wouldn't do that to any pre-existing products so that's garbage too. And I think all this nonsense with the "limited runs" is just to push sales and allow them to scare people into buying further and further into the future.  Trust me, I can keep going with my issues with Drop.
> 
> I'm just saying that to me *personally*, the $50 increase doesn't seem egregious. That bit, in a vacuum, seems like a price fluctuation. It was unnecessary and definitely shows their money grabbing side but it's modest enough that I won't see it as a slap in the face like the other things I mentioned.


----------



## ok3wire

Roen said:


> I'll have a couple of cables sent to me to try this halfway house method of reducing ground noise on an unbalanced DAC out. Might as well lol.



I'm methodically making my way through this thread, and before I lose track of this post, wanted to ask if you received these cables, where you ordered them from and if you would recommend them.  

Apologies in advance if any of these questions have already been answered further down thread.


----------



## alpovs

ok3wire said:


> I'm methodically making my way through this thread, and before I lose track of this post, wanted to ask if you received these cables, where you ordered them from and if you would recommend them.
> 
> Apologies in advance if any of these questions have already been answered further down thread.


These are the cables in question: 
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4775
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4776


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 27, 2019)

loki993 said:


> They changed their name but not their ridiculous lead times...not shipping until november kiss my butt. They know they can sell every one they make so why not just make a run and have them in stock like they did before. I refuse to pay up front for their production runs, its not supposed to really be a crowdfunding site anymore right? That was part of the reason for the stupid name change right? Also the drop logo in the unit looks like crap.



Well...  I am not a fan of the wait times either.  Sometimes I don’t buy because of the lead times, other times I buy despite the lead times.  What I don’t get is why anyone would get so worked up over it?  It’s not like you are waiting months for life saving medicine.  It’s just an amp.  Buy it.  Don’t buy it.  Getting mad won’t change anything.



themuna said:


> Hey, I've always been critical of Massdrop/Drop and I don't like their business practices even if I like their products. I'm just saying that this isn't all that egregious. They usually offer products at a lower introductory price so even if they didn't mention it this time, I don't think going up by $50 is a complete spit on our faces.
> 
> We shouldn't be paying for this months ahead of time so that's messed up on their part. They shouldn't be throwing their new logo on items after they said specifically that they wouldn't do that to any pre-existing products so that's garbage too. And I think all this nonsense with the "limited runs" is just to push sales and allow them to scare people into buying further and further into the future.  Trust me, I can keep going with my issues with Drop.
> 
> I'm just saying that to me *personally*, the $50 increase doesn't seem egregious. That bit, in a vacuum, seems like a price fluctuation. It was unnecessary and definitely shows their money grabbing side but it's modest enough that I won't see it as a slap in the face like the other things I mentioned.



Upset about lead times?  Don’t buy it.

Don’t like paying long in advance for the product?  Don’t buy it.

Upset about the Drop logo being added?  Don’t buy it.

Limited runs are a ploy on their part?  What’s your proof?  If it was to create hype...  doubtless the limited availability has created hype.  But the 789 got largely rave reviews from the very beginning before the trickle of manufacturing batches, and by now my guess is that if they had secured sufficient components and manufacturing capacity from the very beginning they would have sold many more units...  while you postulate it was a ploy on their part, I postulate it was an error on their part.

As to the $50 increase, there could be many reasons for the price increase. 
 - It could be that their costs have increased and they are trying to cover those costs (by the way that could be costs of this amp, or costs elsewhere in their portfolio and they are covering those costs with this product). 
 - Or it could be that by charging higher cost they can pay more to the component suppliers to secure scarce parts, or to pay more to the contract manufacturers that they use to secure additional capacity on those manufacturing lines in order to make these in batches of thousands and not just hundreds (like, apparently, is now the case). 
 - It could also be that someone at (Mass)Drop dusted off one of their old Freshman Econ 101 textbooks and realized that when demand outstrips supply, the smart business increases their prices to bring supply and demand into balance and ***eeeek*** make more profit.  This is a business, not a non-profit service set up to keep all of us happy.  They just need to keep enough of us happy (and paying), and at least with the 789 they seem to be successful, despite some gnashing of teeth.

I am not trying to start any flames here.  It just seems to me that purchasing decisions are complex combinations of many factors on consumer’s part, and prices and schedules are complex decisions on seller’s part.

Buy.  Don’t buy.  It’s your choice!  But to moan about it seems a waste of time (though maybe it’s therapeutic).


----------



## ok3wire

alpovs said:


> These are the cables in question:
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4775
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4776



Thank you.


----------



## Roasty

PopZeus said:


> From what I've read, the need to use the XLR input is pretty minimal given the amp's topology. It's not a fully balanced amp, so signals get down converted and upconverted before moving to the amp stage. My DAC actually sounds different when using the balanced outs vs SE, so I want the bassier single-ended output to feed the 789 when it arrives. I'm definitely opting to use SE RCAs over 4-pin XLR. For this amp, I'd definitely go for the Airist RDAC or another ladder DAC like the Denafrips Ares. I plan to use the Audio-gd R2R 1 as my source. Given the sorta revealing nature of this amp, I'm thinking a smooth, analog, life-like source is best. You (and by "you" I mean "me") want everything to sound as alive and breathing as possible.





Zachik said:


> I personally do not own the THX, but I do own the LCX and CTH - the RDAC is a very good DAC for those.
> I know for a fact that the good folks from Drop are testing their own DAC with all their amps for good synergy...
> Bottom line: you cannot go wrong IMHO with the RDAC.



Thanks for the input, guys. I was curious on the r2r sound as well, but eventually decided to order the Topping D70.

The XLR output was one of the things I would have liked on my dac; I have a Wooaudio 22 in the house, and a Benchmark HPA4 on the way, and I wanted to use the XLR outs on these amps. Aside from pairing it with the 789, i also wanted to compare the D70 to my dac3b and x sabre pro as well, and perhaps downsize the amount of audio stuff I have if the D70 performs well.


----------



## PaganDL

jsmiller58 said:


> Well...  I am not a fan of the wait times either.  Sometimes I don’t buy because of the lead times, other times I buy despite the lead times.  What I don’t get is why anyone would get so worked up over it?  It’s not like you are waiting months for life saving medicine.  It’s just an amp.  Buy it.  Don’t buy it.  Getting mad won’t change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well said, @jsmiller58, I agree wholeheartedly with all your points, people really should stop complaining about Drop's _'slow'_ fulfilment...just don't buy &/or shop elsewhere, really not that hard.


Just my two cents,
I rather eventually get something which may have potential delays for whatever reason than something which keeps getting sold out in seconds. At least this time the slot to order a 789 is available for a month as opposed to said seconds...

On a side note, if said consumer wants something almost instant, one should really blame Amazon for increasing shipping efficiency.
Though if one is outside the US, which I am, it takes packages (doesn't matter what) from the US or Europe at least a week if not two to arrive unless couriered, of course, which if one is lucky. This is still better than a few years ago where something from the US takes _at least three weeks_.
Honestly, I don't care how long a package takes to get to me as long as it arrives safe & sound.

Now apologies to all non complainers for my humble opinion & observations.

I look forward to December when I finally get the 789 after *WAITING 3 YEARS !* so the complainers can stick it.

Hope everyone has a great day !


----------



## loki993

jsmiller58 said:


> Limited runs are a ploy on their part?  What’s your proof?  If it was to create hype...  doubtless the limited availability has created hype.  But the 789 got largely rave reviews from the very beginning before the trickle of manufacturing batches, and by now my guess is that if they had secured sufficient components and manufacturing capacity from the very beginning they would have sold many more units...  while you postulate it was a ploy on their part, I postulate it was an error on their part.



Everything else you said usually I don't buy it, if I were to buy something from them its only if its a in stock item. I understood the wait times before when the site was basically a group buy site for mostly niche products. At this point though they are selling a lot of very popular stuff..I mean the HD6xx for example multiple large tech sites talkin about it and the great deal it was. 

the 789 was in stock for a few months at the end of last year, as was the 6xx, the SDAC and a few other things I know because I was watching them. You could buy an 789 and have int at your door in 2 or 3 days. All of sudden around january they vanished, along with the 6xx and the SDAC oddly enough. After that there only small drops for the 789 with long lead times and they would sell out in a matter of minutes.....yes when theyw ree zxtcokced people wehrre talking about them, but once they were gone everyone was talking about them like it was some mythical creature. People were trying to sell them for outrageous prices on ebay. There were like 60k requests for a new drop on the site. I mean there is the proof..it sat in stock for months,.even amid all the great reviews they seemed to have enough of them, people were buying them. Now with the "limited" drops they are gone in minutes...every time. 

I mean I don't even really care about the price hike...I think they half assedly explained it any some point..gave some wishy washy reason so yeah its probably just to squeeze a few more bucks out of people...they did it with the 6xx too...but I don't know I guess I find that less egregious...


----------



## jsmiller58

loki993 said:


> Everything else you said usually I don't buy it, if I were to buy something from them its only if its a in stock item. I understood the wait times before when the site was basically a group buy site for mostly niche products. At this point though they are selling a lot of very popular stuff..I mean the HD6xx for example multiple large tech sites talkin about it and the great deal it was.
> 
> the 789 was in stock for a few months at the end of last year, as was the 6xx, the SDAC and a few other things I know because I was watching them. You could buy an 789 and have int at your door in 2 or 3 days. All of sudden around january they vanished, along with the 6xx and the SDAC oddly enough. After that there only small drops for the 789 with long lead times and they would sell out in a matter of minutes.....yes when theyw ree zxtcokced people wehrre talking about them, but once they were gone everyone was talking about them like it was some mythical creature. People were trying to sell them for outrageous prices on ebay. There were like 60k requests for a new drop on the site. I mean there is the proof..it sat in stock for months,.even amid all the great reviews they seemed to have enough of them, people were buying them. Now with the "limited" drops they are gone in minutes...every time.
> 
> I mean I don't even really care about the price hike...I think they half assedly explained it any some point..gave some wishy washy reason so yeah its probably just to squeeze a few more bucks out of people...they did it with the 6xx too...but I don't know I guess I find that less egregious...



I respect your position, I really do!!  I just don't understand why you are worked up over it.  If they no longer operate in a way that suits/satisfies you, just move on...  I don't believe that I have an inherent right to have them behave in a manner I want them to.  However, I do have the right to chose whether to give them my business.  I also understand any complaining that I do about them will have precisely - not approximately - zero impact...


----------



## ok3wire (Jul 27, 2019)

Has anyone tried using the DAC portion of the Chord Mojo to feed this amp?  I’m about halfway through this thread and don’t recall having seen any detailed mentions of it thus far.  Any general SQ evaluations relative to other DACs in the sub-$1000 category?

And more importantly, if I were to attempt this, would the following represent a permissible cabling solution?








https://ghentaudio.com/part/b05a.html


----------



## AndrewM888

ok3wire said:


> Has anyone tried using the DAC portion of the Chord Mojo to feed this amp?  I’m about halfway through this thread and don’t recall having seen any detailed mentions of it thus far.  Any general SQ evaluations relative to other DACs in the sub-$1000 category?
> 
> And more importantly, if I were to attempt this, would the following represent a permissible cabling solution?
> 
> ...


Yes that cable will work well. Very nice.


----------



## ok3wire

AndrewM888 said:


> Yes that cable will work well. Very nice.



Thanks so much, Andrew.  Nothing gives a person piece of mind like getting the scoop straight from the designer.


----------



## whohasaquestion

AndrewM888 said:


> Yes that cable will work well. Very nice.



So despite the look of xlr, its actually not balanced?

Why not just use a 3.5mm to rca cable?


----------



## Davesrose

whohasaquestion said:


> So despite the look of xlr, its actually not balanced?
> 
> Why not just use a 3.5mm to rca cable?



This amp does not have a fully balanced circuit design.  However, like many current designs, it does have more power output with balanced interfaces.


----------



## ayang02

whohasaquestion said:


> So despite the look of xlr, its actually not balanced?
> 
> Why not just use a 3.5mm to rca cable?



I think this post by Andrew explains why: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...pressions-thread.873576/page-93#post-14890659


----------



## Currawong

ayang02 said:


> I think this post by Andrew explains why: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-thx-aaa™-789-linear-amplifier-impressions-thread.873576/page-93#post-14890659



It'll amount to the same thing as using a 3.5mm to RCA. A cable that connects a non-balanced system to a balanced one shorts the ground to one of the signal pins anyway.


----------



## ayang02

Currawong said:


> It'll amount to the same thing as using a 3.5mm to RCA. A cable that connects a non-balanced system to a balanced one shorts the ground to one of the signal pins anyway.



Of course, not saying these 3.5mm/RCA to XLR cables are balanced....they are all single-ended cables afterall.


----------



## AndrewM888

whohasaquestion said:


> So despite the look of xlr, its actually not balanced?
> 
> Why not just use a 3.5mm to rca cable?


Cable shields have non-zero impedance that conducts CM noise currents. So you want cables with separate copper for shield and for signal ground, ideally along the entire length.


----------



## themuna (Jul 28, 2019)

jsmiller58 said:


> Well...  I am not a fan of the wait times either.  Sometimes I don’t buy because of the lead times, other times I buy despite the lead times.  What I don’t get is why anyone would get so worked up over it?  It’s not like you are waiting months for life saving medicine.  It’s just an amp.  Buy it.  Don’t buy it.  Getting mad won’t change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure who you meant to respond to. I'm not "mad" or "worked up" about a company trying to make money. That's what companies do. That's why I specifically said that I was "critical" of their practices. This whole site is people speaking favorably or critically of one thing or another.

 My point about those things is that they don't match with the stated purpose of switching from Massdrop to Drop. The lead times and crowdsourcing don't make sense any more when they are selling their own products and if they have stated themselves that the site is different now. I never questioned it when they were selling other people's products and before they changed the name and made those statements. I made the decision to buy because I want the product but wanting a product doesn't mean you have to be a blind sheep to all of a company's decisions. I bought the product and I think it's a worthwhile purchase. I am simply critical of some of some aspects of the company and marketing. How is that different than any review or discussion posting on this site or others?

And yes, we speak criticality on an online forum about a company and how their statements don't match their actions. That's allowed. Being critical is ok. That's allowed on an online forum. No one here is staging an "Occupy Drop" rally and planning a shutdown in all caps. We're actually just discussing those "complex" purchasing  decisions by talking about different aspects of the product and manufacturer. Just as you can talk about things you like, you talk about things you don't. That's the only way to make decisions.  If you think a product/company could be improved, it doesn't hurt to say something. And an online forum is a better place to discuss those things and see what other people feel before you go sending emails to customer service complaining about the type of tape they use for their boxes.

Great how I make a post that is primarily defending Drop and defending the price increase on a product that I paid the 400 bucks for (I used PayPal so I actually already forked over the money to preorder before the drop even ends) and yet somehow I'm not supposed to comment on anything else or be critical of a company on an online forum.


----------



## jsmiller58

themuna said:


> I'm not sure who you meant to respond to. I'm not "mad" or "worked up" about a company trying to make money. That's what companies do. That's why I specifically said that I was "critical" of their practices. This whole site is people speaking favorably or critically of one thing or another.
> 
> My point about those things is that they don't match with the stated purpose of switching from Massdrop to Drop. The lead times and crowdsourcing don't make sense any more when they are selling their own products and if they have stated themselves that the site is different now. I never questioned it when they were selling other people's products and before they changed the name and made those statements. I made the decision to buy because I want the product but wanting a product doesn't mean you have to be a blind sheep to all of a company's decisions. I bought the product and I think it's a worthwhile purchase. I am simply critical of some of some aspects of the company and marketing. How is that different than any review or discussion posting on this site or others?
> 
> ...



While I can readily see how you could interpret what I wrote the way you did, it is a more extreme interpretation than intended.  I take responsibility for that, and don't blame you.

You can write and discuss whatever you want.  I did not - or at least did not intend to - tell you what you could do or could not do.  I personally would like to see this thread be more about critical evaluation of the product than the company or practices, but, hey, it's a free internet, right?  My opinion, which I freely shared, is that commenting/complaining about (Mass)Drop's practices will do nothing, but there is no prohibition against doing so.  That is my freely shared opinion.

As to pricing, schedules, volumes...  I have the advantage of having led in the past the Manufacturing Operations for a company that used off-shore contract manufacturing so let's just say while I don't KNOW what is happening over at (Mass)Drop, I can make some very educated guesses.  Just to be clear, I would be shocked if (Mass)Drop makes their own products in their own factories using their own manufactured subcomponents.  Even Apple doesn't do that. So I am probably predisposed - maybe too generously - to give (Mass)Drop a pass...  It could well be that I am completely wrong in doing so.  But if I take the opposite side of the argument and criticize them I am convinced it won't make any difference.

As a positive, a public service of the critical statements is that it may serve as a warning to the naive who may press the pre-order button without looking at the bottom of the drop page and see the estimated ship dates.


----------



## hakuzen (Jul 31, 2019)

ok3wire said:


> Has anyone tried using the DAC portion of the Chord Mojo to feed this amp?  I’m about halfway through this thread and don’t recall having seen any detailed mentions of it thus far.  Any general SQ evaluations relative to other DACs in the sub-$1000 category?
> 
> And more importantly, if I were to attempt this, would the following represent a permissible cabling solution?
> 
> ...


edit:
it would work, but for single end signal, better use 3.5mm to L/R RCAs. cheaper, and you get the same result.
reserve XLR inputs for sources with balanced output
got informed: for THX 789, you get clear advantage by using XLR input even for single-ended signals, and this kind of shielded cable.


----------



## flyte3333 (Jul 30, 2019)

AndrewM888 said:


> Cable shields have non-zero impedance that conducts CM noise currents. So you want cables with separate copper for shield and for signal ground, ideally along the entire length.



Hi @AndrewM888

If I have a DAC with only XLR outputs... but I don't want to use the XLR inputs of THX789 because the gain is too high (even on lowest gain setting) - do XLR-to-RCA cables provide the same benefits as the RCA-to-XLR cables you've recommended for RCA-only output DACs?

No issues with XLR (DAC end) to RCA (THX789 end) cables?


----------



## AndrewM888 (Jul 30, 2019)

Em2016 said:


> Hi @AndrewM888
> 
> If I have a DAC with only XLR outputs... but I don't want to use the XLR inputs of THX789 because the gain is too high (even on lowest gain setting) - do XLR-to-RCA cables provide the same benefits as the RCA-to-XLR cables you've recommended for RCA-only output DACs?
> 
> No issues with XLR (DAC end) to RCA (THX789 end) cables?


Hi,
Unfortunately you can't take XLR bal out from DAC and reduce to RCA because it will short one of your DAC bal outputs.
Just use XLR DAC out to AMP XLR in. For a given headphone jack e.g. 1/4", the 789 gain is same whether using RCA or XLR input. It has a diff input stage.


----------



## flyte3333

AndrewM888 said:


> Unfortunately you can't take XLR bal out from DAC and reduce to RCA because it will short one of your DAC bal outputs.



Ooops. Good thing i checked first 



AndrewM888 said:


> Just use XLR-XLR. For a given output, 789 gain is same whether using RCA or XLR input.



Ok cheers


----------



## adeadcrab

Is there any point getting a balanced DAC for this amp if I'm not running super long interconnects? Does a balanced source just provide more power??


----------



## phthora

adeadcrab said:


> Is there any point getting a balanced DAC for this amp if I'm not running super long interconnects? Does a balanced source just provide more power??



The short answer is: yes, you should still get a balanced DAC ideally. Benchmark's explain this much better than I ever could in one of their Application Notes:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/balanced-vs-unbalanced-analog-interfaces


----------



## PopZeus

None of the lengthy reviews I've read have mentioned the balanced XLR input being significantly better or louder than the single-ended RCA.


----------



## Fatdoi

PopZeus said:


> None of the lengthy reviews I've read have mentioned the balanced XLR input being significantly better or louder than the single-ended RCA.


But has anyone here done an AB between RCA and XLR input to settle this issue?


----------



## hakuzen

PopZeus said:


> None of the lengthy reviews I've read have mentioned the balanced XLR input being significantly better or louder than the single-ended RCA.


if signals are true balanced when reaching XLR inputs, you should get +6dB (double power) and much less crosstalk than single-ended RCA.
if you carry a non true balanced signals (i.e., single-ended) into XLR inputs, there shouldn't be noticeable difference with single-ended RCA (the only difference would consist of plugs and jacks quality and conductivity: small one)


----------



## PopZeus

hakuzen said:


> if signals are true balanced when reaching XLR inputs, you should get +6dB (double power) and much less crosstalk than single-ended RCA.
> if you carry a non true balanced signals (i.e., single-ended) into XLR inputs, there shouldn't be noticeable difference with single-ended RCA (the only difference would consist of plugs and jacks quality and conductivity: small one)



But this amp isn't fully balanced. Before it gets to the amplification stage, it takes half of the balanced input (ditching the other half) and then doubles it, just like it does with the single-ended RCA inputs. I have yet to hear it for myself, but I think that brings both input types closer together in terms of power and quality.


----------



## hakuzen (Jul 31, 2019)

PopZeus said:


> But this amp isn't fully balanced. Before it gets to the amplification stage, it takes half of the balanced input (ditching the other half) and then doubles it, just like it does with the single-ended RCA inputs. I have yet to hear it for myself, but I think that brings both input types closer together in terms of power and quality.


humm.. didn't know this. then, guess it creates its own balanced signal when doubling, instead of getting and amplifying the balanced input signal.
but doubling is adding negative signal for XLR-4 balanced output, which is different than adding ground for RCA single-end output. that's why you get double power and much lower crosstalk in balanced XLR-4 output (check the specs).
if it works this way, you could get balanced output from a single-ended input signal. so the 3.5TRS cable to 2*XLR (single ended) gets sense. this is not usual, i'll search for further info.

EDIT: yes, it generates its own balanced signal from single-end signal, coming from either single-ended (RCA/XLR) or balanced (XLR) inputs.
using single-ended signal via XLR input, gets the benefit of removing possible ground loops (hum) and decreasing the chance of RF noise (XLR cables use to be full shielded), like if it was a balanced input signal. so it's much preferred than RCA input.
i like this very much.


----------



## hf6576

Fatdoi said:


> But has anyone here done an AB between RCA and XLR input to settle this issue?


I can do it recently.


----------



## escalibur

Still not 'sold out' at Drop. Either the interest has dropped (thanks to Atom?) or they finally managed to have bigger stock than before.


----------



## PaganDL

escalibur said:


> Still not 'sold out' at Drop. Either the interest has dropped (thanks to Atom?) or they finally managed to have bigger stock than before.




More stock definitely, @escalibur.

Otherwise they wouldn't have it available to order for a month.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## AndrewM888

PopZeus said:


> None of the lengthy reviews I've read have mentioned the balanced XLR input being significantly better or louder than the single-ended RCA.


You can achieve max output on all HP outputs with 2V unbal or 2V bal. Gain is same.


----------



## AndrewM888

PopZeus said:


> But this amp isn't fully balanced. Before it gets to the amplification stage, it takes half of the balanced input (ditching the other half) and then doubles it, just like it does with the single-ended RCA inputs. I have yet to hear it for myself, but I think that brings both input types closer together in terms of power and quality.


No, we don't just use half the input signal. We use it all, through an instrumentation opamp differential input stage.
Both 789 input types are extremely high quality with impeccable measurements. For most setups, indistinguishable. 
Choose the DAC you like best, and if you must use RCA use short cables 1-2ft. It'll be awesome. Cheers!


----------



## jsmiller58

PaganDL said:


> More stock definitely, @escalibur.
> 
> Otherwise they wouldn't have it available to order for a month.
> 
> Hope you have a great day !


I think that technically it isn’t that they have more stock (if it were in stock they could ship it right away at the end of the drop rather than waiting till mid November).  They probably have secured more production capacity at their contract manufacturer and/or they have secured more of the scarce components from their supply chain, allowing them to build many more units than before,

In either case, a great development indeed.


----------



## adeadcrab

Unbalanced DAC it is 

Funny how one of the most renowned headphone amps in this community does not have discrete circuitry like so many trend towards nowadays, but uses opamps in the signal path. Kinda turns conventional engineering and design on its head..


----------



## AndrewM888

adeadcrab said:


> Unbalanced DAC it is
> 
> Funny how one of the most renowned headphone amps in this community does not have discrete circuitry like so many trend towards nowadays, but uses opamps in the signal path. Kinda turns conventional engineering and design on its head..


Opamps contain dozens to hundreds of devices, all precisely matched and temperature compensated. You usually can't replicate that in discrete without a ton of work.


----------



## PopZeus

AndrewM888 said:


> No, we don't just use half the input signal. We use it all, through an instrumentation opamp differential input stage.
> Both 789 input types are extremely high quality with impeccable measurements. For most setups, indistinguishable.
> Choose the DAC you like best, and if you must use RCA use short cables 1-2ft. It'll be awesome. Cheers!



Thank you for clarifying. I’m not a technical person, obviously. I was just describing, in layperson’s terms, how the amp wasn’t fully balanced. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like the balanced signal is used in the path to ensure a level of accuracy. The 789 is just not (what is traditionally accepted as) a fully balanced design like the LCX, and so there are very minimal differences between the single-ended and balanced signal paths within the circuitry of the amp itself. That, at the very least, was the larger point I was trying to make, however inelegantly.


----------



## PaganDL

jsmiller58 said:


> I think that technically it isn’t that they have more stock (if it were in stock they could ship it right away at the end of the drop rather than waiting till mid November).  They probably have secured more production capacity at their contract manufacturer and/or they have secured more of the scarce components from their supply chain, allowing them to build many more units than before,
> 
> In either case, a great development indeed.




Exactly what I meant, @jsmiller58, more stock in the sense their production & components quota is up so they can offer more.

We're see what happens, great development perhaps but at least heading in the right direction...or at least one hopes.

I remain cynical either way till I have my unit to use.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## protoss

@AndrewM888 

I am looking forward to a THX tube AMP! Around $400 also. Make it happen!


----------



## mixman

protoss said:


> @AndrewM888
> 
> I am looking forward to a THX tube AMP! Around $400 also. Make it happen!


+1. Either that or better yet their version of the the Cavalli Liquid Platinum, which would be an all out version of the CTH.......$500, It would kill and look better than the Monoprice.


----------



## jsmiller58

PaganDL said:


> Exactly what I meant, @jsmiller58, more stock in the sense their production & components quota is up so they can offer more.
> 
> We're see what happens, great development perhaps but at least heading in the right direction...or at least one hopes.
> 
> ...


I hope your 789 turns out to be a great investment and that it brings you much audio bliss!  

And, yeah, stay cynical!


----------



## AndrewM888

PopZeus said:


> Thank you for clarifying. I’m not a technical person, obviously. I was just describing, in layperson’s terms, how the amp wasn’t fully balanced. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like the balanced signal is used in the path to ensure a level of accuracy. The 789 is just not (what is traditionally accepted as) a fully balanced design like the LCX, and so there are very minimal differences between the single-ended and balanced signal paths within the circuitry of the amp itself. That, at the very least, was the larger point I was trying to make, however inelegantly.


All good!
Balanced signalling is great for audio but the reason why is misunderstood. Balanced signaling is just a subset of the important thing: differential signalling. Differential signalling reduces noise and hum pickup by keeping signal lines clean and separate from dirty shields and ground planes that can inject noise by "ground bounce" mechanisms.
You can achieve differential signaling from DAC to amp by either XLR3-XLR3 from bal DAC, or RCA to XLR3 from unbal DAC.
Then, regardless of input type, 789 circuit architecture maintains fully differential signaling --> the full benefit of "fully balanced" architecture, without the cost and complexity.


----------



## Deftone

I pre ordered one for a friend, does anyone know when an estimated shipping date is?


----------



## trellus

Deftone said:


> I pre ordered one for a friend, does anyone know when an estimated shipping date is?



15 November 2019


----------



## ls13coco

This thread seems quiet lately, so here's my now readable volume pot.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

very nice did you move the led to the knob? i was going to take mine apart to do basically the same thing i just have yet to have the time lol


----------



## ls13coco

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> very nice did you move the led to the knob? i was going to take mine apart to do basically the same thing i just have yet to have the time lol



That's an interesting idea actually!

I went the cheap and simple route, went to Canadian Tire and was searching for a white or yellow sharpie. Ended up leaving with a small amount of white paint and a tiny brush, just spent some time trying to keep it all in the indent and clearing off any excess.

MCTH incoming this week, so I'll have to repeat it lol


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

thats what i plan to do is move the led to the knob. in the pic you posted it looks like a led lol


----------



## ls13coco

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> thats what i plan to do is move the led to the knob. in the pic you posted it looks like a led lol



If you do, definitely show us, sounds like a cool idea to me lol


----------



## RestlessZombi

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> thats what i plan to do is move the led to the knob. in the pic you posted it looks like a led lol



Permission to steal this... Though It'll be a while til I can, Mine's not due for a few months..


----------



## Widell

Anyone who can give his/her 2cents *THX 789 AAA/Chord Qutest VS Chord Hugo 2 *with HD800?


----------



## Currawong

I don't know about with the HD800, but my impressions are that a Hugo 2 direct is more resolving than adding the 789 in the chain. You're just not going to beat NOT adding a bunch of electronics in the chain.


----------



## Widell

Currawong said:


> I don't know about with the HD800, but my impressions are that a Hugo 2 direct is more resolving than adding the 789 in the chain. You're just not going to beat NOT adding a bunch of electronics in the chain.



Thx
Cancelled the THX drop and ordered the CH2 hope that the 2GO will materialize sooner than later...


----------



## Waavv

Has anyone had a chance to compare the 789 to a Marantz Dac 1? Or anything Violectric?


----------



## Johnsouter

I've cancelled the Massdrop amp and purchase the Monoprice THX. I'm too impatient. Hope I've not made a big mistake!


----------



## trellus

I'm curious about the Monoprice THX but that's easier to get than the Massdrop THX 789, so I'm staying in the drop.  Also, I'd prefer to have a pure analog device in this case.  The thing with that Monoprice desktop THX DAC/amp is that even the analog input is first brought into the digital domain with an ADC, so there's no way to use it purely as an analog amp.


----------



## PopZeus

April drop is now shipping out! Really looking forward to having a dedicated amp again. Not gonna lie though, I’m a bit concerned about how much bass I’ll be getting from my desktop rig 2.0...


----------



## hf6576

hf6576 said:


> I can do it recently.


I use the same cables with different connectors (RCA/XLR) to test the sound difference between the two kinds of inputs.
The input signal is not balanced. 
As far as I can tell, there is difference in sound, but the difference is no larger than that possibly caused by the connectors. 
And I have no preference between the two sounds, though I prefer RCA input, because it can goes through the amp and feeds my speakers.


----------



## robo24

Yep, I also got notification my April 18th order is shipping 2 weeks ahead of time.


----------



## escalibur

Who would’ve thought that the Drop is still active!

I’m wondering if they can still ship them all in November.


----------



## RestlessZombi

RestlessZombi said:


> Permission to steal this... Though It'll be a while til I can, Mine's not due for a few months..



Mine from the April Drop should be with me in two days, kinda got bend over and taken for a ride with Import Duty but kinda knew it wouldn't be cheap...  I best prepare..


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Massdrop THX 789, Aune S7 pro or Gustard H20 with Focal Clear?
I use Focal with chord Hugo, but I’d like a better open sound.


----------



## RestlessZombi

I received and email saying that Sales of 789 will stop tomorrow.. soo.. Get your orders in.. 


 

Incidentally mine came today.. just listening to it  So much power.. (Old Design with Massdrop on the back, from April Orders)


----------



## Xinlisupreme

I saw you will be in pending till 15 November if you order now


----------



## PopZeus (Aug 22, 2019)

I get the whole "wire with gain" approach to the 789. With it in my chain, it's as close as I'll ever get to listening to the headphones interpreting the DAC and not much else. The amp sorta disappears. Possible endgame for the uncolored sound profile. Nicely job, THX and MD!

I suppose the only other option for future changes is to swing in the other direction and go tube, but that's a whole can of worms I'm not ready to open... yet.


----------



## jbarrentine

Yay. It came!

Still listening. It's not $300 better than the Atom at the single ended level, but it is better. The layering of instruments is more apparent. I'm happy even though the power supply is one of those "box down the middle of the chain" deals. 

I think with my Qutest I'm done for a bit.


----------



## kdoof (Aug 24, 2019)

Mine arrived from the April drop. It's a pretty phenomenal amp, I can say that much out of the gate. I am currently A/B'ing with the ZDT Jr and it's surprisingly difficult to discern a difference between the two, though the ZDTJ provides a greater sense of soundstage and space, and makes the disparate instruments that comprise music sound a touch more 'cohesive' -- but the 789 beats it out technically; articulate or busy passages of music are more cleanly delineated, and it's so. damn. easy to pick apart all the instrumentation and production. Bass response is overall stronger than the ZDTJ as well, the bass is thick and authoritative.

Like others, I couldn't help but expect cold and clinical from the 789, and it is simply not. The bass is excellent, midbass is sublime, bass drums *slap* in a way they don't quite manage on the ZDTJ, where it's slightly more diffuse and not as resolving. The 789 is simply articulate, accurate, assured. (AAA?)

I fully expected to just sell off the 789 after a bit of listening and now am faced with a really difficult decision about which one to keep! I like both a lot, they are somewhat different but not nearly to the extent I expected. The ZDTJ does seem to provide a touch more naturalistic or live-like rendition of recordings, where the 789 is just the recording -- and that's that. The more I listen to say jazz or acoustic guitar I find myself appreciating the ZDTJ's only-slightly more liquid detail retrieval, as the 789 can make sax or guitar with certain effects sound, not sibilant, but almost chimey? More 'artificial', anyway... though of course it's safe to say that that's a more accurate representation of the recording to begin with. (But I'm not a stickler for accuracy with equipment, to be honest.)


----------



## adeadcrab

Keep both, high-end tube and solid state!


----------



## kdoof

adeadcrab said:


> Keep both, high-end tube and solid state!



Ha, I would that I could...


----------



## greyscale75 (Aug 25, 2019)

Don’t look now, but theDrop THX 789 is back up for sale again. As of today (Sat), 29 days left to preorder.


----------



## escalibur

greyscale75 said:


> Don’t look now, but theDrop THX 789 is back up for sale again.



Next step is just 'order'? 

Maybe they've noticed that some people are picking Atom over this unless they really need balanced output.


----------



## omegaorgun

I see one just sold for $360 shipped, there are a few decent sellers left. The rest are scumbags.


----------



## sennfan83261

FireLion said:


> I see one just sold for $360 shipped, there are a few decent sellers left. The rest are scumbags.


Thankfully, the THX AAA 789 eBay gravy train appears to be over.  I don't think the $900 buy-it-now seller received the memo.


----------



## Shane D

I am guessing that they didn't sell near what they planned on selling. After 30 days I think they only sold about 1K. For it to go right back out again, they must have been planning to sell several thousand. I think there was something like 5,000 people requesting it? I would guess they will be very lucky to sell an additional 1,000 since all the rabid fans have already gotten in. Interesting to watch that number for the next 30 days.

Shane D


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i grabbed one more from the extension of the drop. so ill have three now. two for home and one for the office. i got my massdrop labeled unit yesterday and its amazing this time. finish is perfect, selector switch is perfectly straight etc. i sent back my last one because that knob was WAYYYY off like it was basically on 3 and looked like it was on 2. being brand new i didnt like that so i sent it back but they were out of them so i got a refund and waited. now i dont regret doing so. im just hoping the new drop name doesnt get printed on the front. imo they look terrible like that. 

im sure there will be a handful more on ebay since no one will get any till nov. the scalpers have a few more months of getting higher prices then i think (or hope) they will be done being able to do so. i saw a few sold for over 750$ its ridiculous and sad people take advantage of others like that today. then it will depend on how often they stock them. if its a regular stock item then the ebayers are out of luck but if they still do the 3-4 times a year for them even if larger qty there will be those who take advantage. what i wonder is what these thing will end up being sold for down the line when they stop making them.


----------



## omegaorgun

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i grabbed one more from the extension of the drop. so ill have three now. two for home and one for the office. i got my massdrop labeled unit yesterday and its amazing this time. finish is perfect, selector switch is perfectly straight etc. i sent back my last one because that knob was WAYYYY off like it was basically on 3 and looked like it was on 2. being brand new i didnt like that so i sent it back but they were out of them so i got a refund and waited. now i dont regret doing so. im just hoping the new drop name doesnt get printed on the front. imo they look terrible like that.
> 
> im sure there will be a handful more on ebay since no one will get any till nov. the scalpers have a few more months of getting higher prices then i think (or hope) they will be done being able to do so. i saw a few sold for over 750$ its ridiculous and sad people take advantage of others like that today. then it will depend on how often they stock them. if its a regular stock item then the ebayers are out of luck but if they still do the 3-4 times a year for them even if larger qty there will be those who take advantage. what i wonder is what these thing will end up being sold for down the line when they stop making them.



I am sure it's a great unit but $750 is way too much, $500 I can understand due to availability. I would rather pickup a Jotunheim for $320-350 and sit it out until one pops up like it did yesterday that sold for $360 all fees and shipping.

I'll limp along on my cheap Chinese POS with modded opamps and the HPA-3B made for a great listen too which I am kinda regretting sellin which is a pure balanced and class-A amp.


----------



## protoss (Aug 29, 2019)

Anyone using a R2R balance DAC with the THX789?

Not talking about Drop X Airst Audio R-2R DAC.

Talking about a true balance R2R DAC?


----------



## elira

protoss said:


> Anyone using a R2R balance DAC with the THX789?
> 
> Not talking about Drop X Airst Audio R-2R DAC.
> 
> Talking about a true balance R2R DAC?


I used my R2R-1 briefly, my main issue that I got channel imbalance because of the low quality volume pot the 789 has. As per sound quality, the 789 is extremely transparent, you will hear whatever your DAC is producing, good or bad. Also the single ended input of the 789 is really good, it should work fine in most cases, no need to chase a balanced DAC.


----------



## PopZeus

protoss said:


> Anyone using a R2R balance DAC with the THX789?
> 
> Not talking about Drop X Airst Audio R-2R DAC.
> 
> Talking about a true balance R2R DAC?



I'm also feeding the 789 with the R2R 1. The signal is a bit louder and the background a bit blacker than when I had the Airist RDAC feeding it. (That said I haven't plugged the single-ended RCAs on the R2R 1 into the 789 yet.) Not sure what other information you're hunting for, but that was what I noticed.


----------



## protoss

That's good enough for me


----------



## TJ Max

For those of you who pre-ordered one back in May, have any of your orders started to ship yet? The est. ship date was supposed to be 8/30.
Also I wonder if we will be receiving the Massdrop branded version or the Drop branded version since the name change hadn't happened yet.


----------



## alpovs

TJ Max said:


> For those of you who pre-ordered one back in May, have any of your orders started to ship yet? The est. ship date was supposed to be 8/30.
> Also I wonder if we will be receiving the Massdrop branded version or the Drop branded version since the name change hadn't happened yet.


Didn't you receive a email that the shipping will be delayed until the end of September? It's also posted on the Drop discussion section for this product.


----------



## TJ Max

Nope. Didnt see this.


----------



## alpovs

TJ Max said:


> Nope. Didnt see this.


Hmm... I just received an email that mine shipped. You had a feeling... 
Looks like they are shipping them early.


----------



## TJ Max (Sep 5, 2019)

alpovs said:


> Hmm... I just received an email that mine shipped. You had a feeling...
> Looks like they are shipping them early.



That's good news. I'm still curious if it will still be the Massdrop branded version since we order these before the name change, and before the newer Drop branded version was announced.

update:
The second after I posted this message, I also received a Shipping notice!


----------



## Cortlendt

Is power brick compatible with 220V? It should be written on the power brick itself if anyone has one near. Many thanks in advance.


----------



## adeadcrab

The only reason the new version is shipping to Australia now (220V+) is a certification Drop had to get. It should be as simple as plugging into a travel adapter.


----------



## lator

Cortlendt said:


> Is power brick compatible with 220V? It should be written on the power brick itself if anyone has one near. Many thanks in advance.


It's in the product info: Switching power supply that handles 100–240 VAC (US plug; adapter needed for global use)


----------



## deafenears

lator said:


> It's in the product info: Switching power supply that handles 100–240 VAC (US plug; adapter needed for global use)


Or a figure-8 / IEC C7 cable should work. You can probably find one for around the same price as an adapter.


----------



## RestlessZombi

I use mine with a replacement "Figure 8" cable. UK 230v Supply so should be fine for Worldwide use.

Anyone ever seen inside.. it's pretty sparce inside..


----------



## JinTam

I just received my unit last night. I spent a few hours on it with my Empyrean and Utopia, it doesn't sound any different than straight out of my media player. Same when I played it direct from my Mac versus through the THX, also no difference. So, I don't understand what all the hype is about.


----------



## alpovs

I have received my unit that I ordered at the end of May 2019. I can confirm that it has the older branding with "Massdrop" on the back and "THX" on the front with no "DROP" in sight. 

I have an older unit that I ordered in November 2018, and what's interesting is the older unit has 
a serial number 007XX, SKU MDX-19090-*1*, Prod No. B*J*18 and AW Rev.A *09*/2018. 
The new unit that I just got has 
a serial number 034XX, SKU MDX-19090-*2*, Prod No. B*F*19 and AW Rev.A *03*/2018. So, it seems that only the serial number and SKU progressed but the Prod No. and AW Rev. digressed. 

I wonder why the new unit has the AW Rev. (whatever it is) earlier than the older unit while still been "A". And I don't know what Prod No. is but *F* comes before *J*. The first mention of this amp appeared in March 2018 just as the AW Rev. of the newer unit. It looks like my newer unit could be manufactured before my older unit. Could it be that there was an earlier production run with defects and they reworked them causing all those delays? 

I wonder if @AndrewM888 could shed some light on this "conspiracy theory"


----------



## deafenears

alpovs said:


> a serial number 007XX, SKU MDX-19090-*1*, Prod No. B*J*18 and AW Rev.A *09*/2018.
> The new unit that I just got has
> a serial number 034XX, SKU MDX-19090-*2*, Prod No. B*F*19 and AW Rev.A *03*/2018.


Maybe a typo and that should have been 03/*2019*?


----------



## chungjun (Sep 11, 2019)

alpovs said:


> I have an older unit that I ordered in November 2018, and what's interesting is the older unit has
> a serial number 007XX, SKU MDX-19090-*1*, Prod No. B*J*18 and AW Rev.A *09*/2018.
> The new unit that I just got has
> a serial number 034XX, SKU MDX-19090-*2*, Prod No. B*F*19 and AW Rev.A *03*/2018. So, it seems that only the serial number and SKU progressed but the Prod No. and AW Rev. digressed.
> ...



Prod No. B*F*19 

Prod No. _progressed (vs B*J*18)_ no?


----------



## alpovs

chungjun said:


> Prod No. B*F*19
> 
> Prod No. _progressed (vs B*J*18)_ no?


English Alphabet: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

You decide.


----------



## alpovs

deafenears said:


> Maybe a typo and that should have been 03/*2019*?


Typos on production labels? Not impossible but unlikely. March 2018 was when they started taking orders for this amp. Check the first page of this thread.


----------



## deafenears (Sep 11, 2019)

alpovs said:


> Typos on production labels? Not impossible but unlikely. March 2018 was when they started taking orders for this amp. Check the first page of this thread.


BF vs. BJ might even be initials, maybe names? Benjamin Franklin vs. Brad Jones, or Build Job vs. Build Farm? With the numbers denoting the year. This would certainly match up. Feel like opening both up and taking snapshots of the circuit board? There might even be revision numbers/letters on it.

Still, doesn't really make sense that they've started taking orders in March 2018 and have production units already made then? If so, why the few months lead time for those to go out?

@CEE TEE, maybe you can comment?


----------



## RestlessZombi

I was thinking that maybe they just started again with the numbers after SKU "MDX-19090-2" so then Model numbers would start again at BA01, for example, but mine is from the April Drop and its the same details (SKU no. MDX-19090-2, Prod No. BF19 and AW Rev.A 03/2018) as yours except has a lower serial (024XX), so likely they didn't. Proves its not a typo though


----------



## RestlessZombi (Sep 11, 2019)

deafenears said:


> Feel like opening both up and taking snapshots of the circuit board? There might even be revision numbers/letters on it.



This is just what I did a week or so back .. 

SKU no. MDX-19090-2, Prod No. BF19 and AW Rev.A 03/2018 Serial No. 024XX from the April drop. Says "D1" but thats about it.


 

Not as much in there as i hoped.. but well built


----------



## chungjun (Sep 11, 2019)

alpovs said:


> English Alphabet: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
> 
> You decide.



Thanks for the English lesson. I was talking about the numbers at the end though... (BF19 vs BJ18)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9...


----------



## ls13coco

JinTam said:


> I just received my unit last night. I spent a few hours on it with my Empyrean and Utopia, it doesn't sound any different than straight out of my media player. Same when I played it direct from my Mac versus through the THX, also no difference. So, I don't understand what all the hype is about.



What other amps do you use? Curious as I intend on getting the Empy eventually. The 789 doesn't seem cleaner at high volumes in anyway?

p.s I prefer my MCTH to the 789 90% of the time


----------



## alpovs (Sep 11, 2019)

chungjun said:


> Thanks for the English lesson. I was talking about the numbers at the end though... (BF19 vs BJ18)
> 
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9...


Ahh... Sorry! You underlined the numbers but I didn't notice it probably because my F and J letter were in bold.

Actually it makes sense. 8 - 2018, 9 - 2019. And the letters may indicate the plant as someone noted earlier.


----------



## alpovs

deafenears said:


> BF vs. BJ might even be initials, maybe names? Benjamin Franklin vs. Brad Jones, or Build Job vs. Build Farm? With the numbers denoting the year. This would certainly match up. Feel like opening both up and taking snapshots of the circuit board?


I think I will do it at some point when my curiosity wins over my laziness. 


deafenears said:


> There might even be revision numbers/letters on it.
> 
> Still, doesn't really make sense that they've started taking orders in March 2018 and have production units already made then? If so, why the few months lead time for those to go out?


I think the AW 03/2018 indicates board/schematic design revision. They might have had just a few units by then.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

FireLion said:


> I am sure it's a great unit but $750 is way too much, $500 I can understand due to availability. I would rather pickup a Jotunheim for $320-350 and sit it out until one pops up like it did yesterday that sold for $360 all fees and shipping.
> 
> I'll limp along on my cheap Chinese POS with modded opamps and the HPA-3B made for a great listen too which I am kinda regretting sellin which is a pure balanced and class-A amp.


i also own a jot. as well as a lyr 3 and a slew of other amps. also some china ones and a few i made myself.


----------



## omegaorgun

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i also own a jot. as well as a lyr 3 and a slew of other amps. also some china ones and a few i made myself.



The SDAC-B also goes great with LCX. The combo version has the lowest gain, a D10 is louder and the SDAC-B is louder again. The SE was even driving a T50RP to adequate levels.

I have a Jot on the way for this week and have a xDuoo TA-10 I'd like to sell as I have two.

Anyway since this is a 789 thread the little SDAC-B is an impressive little unit, has some brightness but has good layering.


----------



## Joong

RestlessZombi said:


> This is just what I did a week or so back ..
> 
> SKU no. MDX-19090-2, Prod No. BF19 and AW Rev.A 03/2018 Serial No. 024XX from the April drop. Says "D1" but thats about it.
> 
> ...


It is too simple to pay 400USD.
I might wait until deeee...ep DROP.


----------



## JinTam

ls13coco said:


> What other amps do you use? Curious as I intend on getting the Empy eventually. The 789 doesn't seem cleaner at high volumes in anyway?
> 
> p.s I prefer my MCTH to the 789 90% of the time



I have a Woo Audio WA6 2nd gen with SE 274B and 12SN7, Cayin HA-1A, and the THX. I think my favorite is the WA6 with both the Utopia end Empy.


----------



## ayang02

There will be a Monoprice THX AAA 887 available in October. This looks like a direct 789 clone with better distortion and noise measurements, looks like a good option for those who are still looking for a 789 amp.


----------



## bequietjk

Unless Neurochrome or Emotiva come out with a head-amp in the same price bracket soon, it's either gonna be the THX 887 or the Asgard 3 for me.  @ayang02 Thanks!  Had no idea Monoprice was coming out with such a gem.  I saw the specs on ASR.


----------



## JinTam

ls13coco said:


> What other amps do you use? Curious as I intend on getting the Empy eventually. The 789 doesn't seem cleaner at high volumes in anyway?
> 
> p.s I prefer my MCTH to the 789 90% of the time



Hmm, the Cayin is pretty good too. I think I just prefer tubes. I'm going to try the 789 again this weekend with my Fostex TH-X00 Ebony. I don't play my music too loud so clarity is not a problem playing loud.


----------



## deafenears (Sep 11, 2019)

bequietjk said:


> Unless Neurochrome or Emotiva come out with a head-amp in the same price bracket soon, it's either gonna be the THX 887 or the Asgard 3 for me.


Like the HPA-1 from @tomchr of Neurochrome fame?
https://www.tomchr.com/products/hpa-1


----------



## bequietjk

Dangit!  I was hoping he'd produce something with something NEAR the power of his last creation.  This new HPA-1 looks nice but power-wise does not seem to be in the same league T.T


----------



## ls13coco

JinTam said:


> Hmm, the Cayin is pretty good too. I think I just prefer tubes. I'm going to try the 789 again this weekend with my Fostex TH-X00 Ebony. I don't play my music too loud so clarity is not a problem playing loud.



I hear that. Cayin HA300 and Woo WA22 are the top amps on my list actually, so much reading your praise of your Woo and Cayin amps comparative to the 789 is nice to see (however should be so, given the price brackets).
I too prefer tubes overall, as well as planars though it seems. 
The Burson Fun with V6 Classic op-amps is my favorite SS amp so far, it has some nice hybrid-tube traits. I'd recommend that over the 789 in a heartbeat for anyone who doesn't need balanced and prefers musical.

I must say, the 789 does sound better with the rDac than it did with my previous dac.


----------



## mixman

Now I see why the Drop THX is now in stock because THX or whoever is now making this unit for Monoprice. Looks like the same unit except different knobs, but will the specs be the same?


----------



## newtophones07

bequietjk said:


> Unless Neurochrome or Emotiva come out with a head-amp in the same price bracket soon, it's either gonna be the THX 887 or the Asgard 3 for me.  @ayang02 Thanks!  Had no idea Monoprice was coming out with such a gem.  I saw the specs on ASR.




I wish the Asgard 3 was balanced.


----------



## bequietjk

newtophones07 said:


> I wish the Asgard 3 was balanced.



Right?  Then we're stepping into Jotunheim territory and hopefully, just hopefully schiit is working on Jot II.


----------



## alpovs

bequietjk said:


> Right?  Then we're stepping into Jotunheim territory and hopefully, just hopefully schiit is working on Jot II.


What can be improved in Jot I?


----------



## TJ Max (Sep 13, 2019)

I just received my THX 789 yesterday, and am testing it out. I'm curious if anyone has a similar set up as I do.
Node 2i->{coax}->Schiit Gungnir Multibit->{XLR}->THX789->{XLR}->Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen.
And what do you think about it?

To me it comes across as a bit loud.

Gain is set to II which is supposed to be 0 db? The manual is confusing regard the gains between Single Ended and XLR.
If II is 0dB and I is -10dB with SE and XLR adds +6dB to everything. Then at means there is no 0dB gain for XLR, the closet you can get is -4dB.


----------



## bequietjk

alpovs said:


> What can be improved in Jot I?



I'm not too sure to be honest.  I don't have any evidence to support Jot needing any improvements as I've never listened to it.  Though, I have heard from many that it could be improved and with the new Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2 out now... I'll bet Schiit's working on a Jot II.


----------



## ephrank

TJ Max said:


> I just received my THX 789 yesterday, and am testing it out.



Please share your impression of the AAA 789 -> Z7M2.


----------



## gunnilinux

What can be improved in Jot I?

If it's like all of the other Shiit gear i have used, they could make it not run as hot as a convection oven.


----------



## escalibur (Sep 18, 2019)

gunnilinux said:


> What can be improved in Jot I?


According to it's measurements it doesn't seem be that good neither.  It's ok amp but there are plenty of better options available for quite the same price.


----------



## alpovs

escalibur said:


> According to it's measurements it doesn't seem be that good neither.  It's ok amp but there are plenty of better options available for quite the same price.


Unfortunately those measurements are mostly of the builtin multibit DAC and multibit DACs don't measure well but sound very good. I've seen Jot's measurement on another forum and they seemed to be about the same as 789's in the audible range.


----------



## alpovs

gunnilinux said:


> What can be improved in Jot I?
> 
> If it's like all of the other Shiit gear i have used, they could make it not run as hot as a convection oven.


I agree with you here. It's especially important for you since you are in Florida. And sometimes beneficial to me in Canada.


----------



## greenmac

A question For any UK users, what power block/adapter are you using as mine has arrived with US plug only

Thanks


----------



## escalibur

alpovs said:


> Unfortunately those measurements are mostly of the builtin multibit DAC and multibit DACs don't measure well but sound very good. I've seen Jot's measurement on another forum and they seemed to be about the same as 789's in the audible range.


Sure there is also a 'human part' where some can hear the difference and some not. However in the age of THX 789 and soon to be released THX 887 I wouldn't run for Jotunheim at this moment. Of course everyone on his own.


----------



## aloki

I just got my THX 789 and I was wondering:

If I plug two of the same headphones, say Oppo PM-3 (26 ohm impedance and 102 dB in 1 mW sensitivity); one into 3.5mm SE and the other into 1/4in SE, would I run the risk of damaging any of my equipment?

I want to connect my Modi 3 to the THX, and run the passthrough to my Magni 3 (my previous set up was the Schiit stack) to create sort my own subjective little test bench: Use the Oppos in the THX to see if I hear any difference between the two Oppos (to set the control/base level standard) and then run the Oppos between the Magni and THX to see what differences I hear between the amps, note those differences and then run different kinds of headphones through the Magni and THX to hear any differences there may be, ascertain which pairings I like better, and such.

The first step is making sure I don't damage anything in establishing the control for my future tests.

Any input is appreciated!


----------



## Fat 5miley

greenmac said:


> A question For any UK users, what power block/adapter are you using as mine has arrived with US plug only
> 
> Thanks



I changed the power cable to one with a UK plug
You can get cheap ones from ebay, search for IEC C7 power lead


----------



## ayang02

S.M.S.L SP200 THX AAA 888. I wonder if it's another 789 clone. At least this time around, the form factor looks smaller.


----------



## eeagle

aloki said:


> I just got my THX 789 and I was wondering:
> 
> If I plug two of the same headphones, say Oppo PM-3 (26 ohm impedance and 102 dB in 1 mW sensitivity); one into 3.5mm SE and the other into 1/4in SE, would I run the risk of damaging any of my equipment?
> /QUOTE]
> You'll be fine, all 3 outputs can be used simultaneously.  They are in parallel so volume may change as HPs are plugged in and removed.  The output impedance is quite low with this amp so it accommodates a wide variety of HPs and IEMs.


----------



## TJ Max (Sep 19, 2019)

ephrank said:


> Please share your impression of the AAA 789 -> Z7M2.



The Sony MDR-Z7m2 are probably the best fit for the THX 789 over the other headphones I tried. Beyerdynamic T1 and T5P, and Sennheiser HD579
I'm going to be the odd one and admit that the THX 789 is a very clinical sounding amp. It benefits from being either connected to a source / DAC or headphones with a distinct sound signature that the listener prefers. If the source and headphones are near flat and neutral, the THX 789 with do no favors. I found the sound to be a bit boring, and I'm not convinced that a near flat musical presentation is what was intended in the recording studio. It may work for full sized speakers interacting with a room, but not for headphones.
I'm currently using a Bluesound Node 2i connected by digital coax to a Schiit Gungnir Multibit dac using its single ended output to the THX 789, I do have the option of going completely balanced, but the sound comes across a harsher to my ears. I am however borrowing the balanced headphone cable from Beyerdynamic. It's of good quality. Looks better than Sony's, and cost about $180 cheaper and fits the MDR-Z2 perfectly. The Balanced output is fine, with a single ended input. To get a less clinical sound though I added my Schiit Loki Equalizer into the chain. And I'm sorry but I had to put on a bit of a smiley faced  EQ because I like enjoying my music in addition to just listening to it's sound.


----------



## alpovs

ayang02 said:


> S.M.S.L SP200 THX AAA 888. I wonder if it's another 789 clone. At least this time around, the form factor looks smaller.


It should be even better and fully balanced maybe. First page of this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...fier-impressions-thread.873576/#post-14079153


----------



## ayang02

alpovs said:


> It should be even better and fully balanced maybe. First page of this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-thx-aaa™-789-linear-amplifier-impressions-thread.873576/#post-14079153



I lost track of the numbering scheme as Monoprice named theirs 887 and that +1 is 888. This means SMSL and Benchmark are the only ones with amps using 888? Interested to see the price of SMSL's amp.


----------



## protoss

Anyone here keeps the THX789 on all day? 

Is it okay to leave the unit on all day long?


----------



## PointyFox

protoss said:


> Anyone here keeps the THX789 on all day?
> 
> Is it okay to leave the unit on all day long?



No, you're wasting power.


----------



## Fatdoi (Sep 21, 2019)

.


----------



## protoss

Anyone using a different power cable/brick with the THX789? Custom 3rd party powercable/brick?


----------



## RussW

tizman said:


> 1. No DAC
> 2. External power supply
> 3. Made in China (guess)
> 
> ...





XERO1 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
> 
> ...





XERO1 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
> 
> ...


----------



## kelvinwsy

I just got my 789 4 days ago hv run it in with the following 24v 2.89amp Linear PSU .. Sounding great from a SMSL VMS D2 Balanced dual ESS0938 pro chip DAC. HP Verum 1 gives good balance of dry sound of the 789 with the richer sound of the Verum ..
Enough power for the inefficient HE560's too


----------



## kelvinwsy




----------



## hakka

wrong thread.


----------



## protoss

kelvinwsy said:


>



So you use this with the Thx789? Whats the name? Link?


----------



## kelvinwsy

Here we go

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52

Be sure to contact the vendor as 24v and 120 V USA supply needs customization - No extra cost Just extended delivery time
Good luck. 
My 24v PSU has 2.89Amp peak current - I could have selected up to 4 over Amp. The transformer sizing and components arwe sized up accordingly. You pay more. But 2.89 amp is enough for the THX789. It sounds SMOOTH. With my Verum1 or the He560, no harshness. This weekend, I will hook up my 6n1p/45 tube Preamp to give the THX789 more harmonic richness and try my Abyss AB1266 Phi/CC and also my treble enhanced HP's like Senn HD800, Final Audio Sonorous VI....

Happy Listening
Kelvin


----------



## ttol

If I use DAC for volume control would it be optimal to max the volume on 789? Not sure if there are any issues with the pot at max volume or other issues (e.g. gain 1 at max volume).


----------



## ReAlien

ttol said:


> If I use DAC for volume control would it be optimal to max the volume on 789? Not sure if there are any issues with the pot at max volume or other issues (e.g. gain 1 at max volume).


As per the measurements by Amir from ASR, the specs are ideal up to the max pot position so I guess it is well fine.


----------



## MacMan31

Updated from the Fiio K3. My HD6XX and 58X never sounded so good. Lots of detail and separation and they even sound a bit more open or airy. Low gain is plenty for me and I don't need to go past 12 o'clock on the volume dial. I don't yet have balance cables between the SDAC and amp so that is next on the list. I bought this on Canuck Audio Mart despite having already on order from Massdrop (Drop) which will ship in November. I'll just sell one of them when that arrives. I didn't pay anything more for this than I did for the one from Drop. Running this off my MacBook Pro. Music being played in iTunes mainly in 320Kbps. Down the road I'll be interested to know how other headphones sound with this amp.


----------



## FourT6and2

Thinking about grabbing one of these or the Monoprice version. Looking at a few other amps as well. And also trying to figure out which DAC to go with. If the 789 is described as crystal clear and analytical, would it make sense that the Empyrean would pair well with it since it's a somewhat darker and lush sounding headphone?

As far as DACs go, I'm considering Benchmark DAC3-B, Chord Qutest (no balanced out unfortunately), and a few others. Really hard to decide as there are so many options out there.

Other amps I'm looking at are the Violectric V280, Monoprice version (788), and Cayin iHA-6.


----------



## adeadcrab

Empyrean + 789 would be a good combo.


----------



## ayang02

Empryean & 789 is indeed a good combo. Add Qutest to the chain, even better. I am also curious about the GSX-mini and how the Empryean would sound off that amp.


----------



## jbarrentine

FourT6and2 said:


> Thinking about grabbing one of these or the Monoprice version. Looking at a few other amps as well. And also trying to figure out which DAC to go with. If the 789 is described as crystal clear and analytical, would it make sense that the Empyrean would pair well with it since it's a somewhat darker and lush sounding headphone?
> 
> As far as DACs go, I'm considering Benchmark DAC3-B, Chord Qutest (no balanced out unfortunately), and a few others. Really hard to decide as there are so many options out there.
> 
> Other amps I'm looking at are the Violectric V280, Monoprice version (788), and Cayin iHA-6.



The 789 with Qutest is absolutely wonderful. I pair that combo with Senns HD660S.


----------



## FourT6and2

jbarrentine said:


> The 789 with Qutest is absolutely wonderful. I pair that combo with Senns HD660S.



What aspects of the Quetest and 789 make them a good pair?


----------



## lator

If you buy this amp using RCA inputs is probably better if there are no ground loops/hum because it bypasses couple opamps in the signal path.


----------



## FourT6and2

No way to know if there are or aren't any ground loops before you dive in, though. Buy a Qutest and discover you have a ground loop and you're screwed at that point. $1,700 for a DAC that only has RCA outs is inane.


----------



## Kamurah

FourT6and2 said:


> No way to know if there are or aren't any ground loops before you dive in, though. Buy a Qutest and discover you have a ground loop and you're screwed at that point. $1,700 for a DAC that only has RCA outs is inane.



Price point of the Qutest aside...ground loops can be resolved fairly easily.   While I run balanced *everything* as a matter of choice, unbalanced signals are perfectly acceptable for short runs.

A few minor housekeeping steps will make for a happy listening experience:

1.  Plug everything into the same outlet if at all possible.  This keeps everything on a level playing field from the 'source power' side of things.

2. Try a different outlet.  If everything is plugged into the same outlet, but that outlet creates buzz and another one does not.....the outlet needs to be checked.

3. If the outlet looks good (ground wise) but there is still hum... perhaps your circuit is getting interference from HVAC or another large appliance.  Try again moving to another outlet NOT on the same circuit.

4.  If none of this works or you cannot move your setup or afford an electrician to sort it.....buy an isolation transformer.  Tripp Lite sells one on Amazon for around 120 bucks.

This will solve 99% of all ground issues.  FWIW I have never had to resort to buying an isolation transformer.  Dirty power is an issue that should be addressed regardless of if you are an audiophile or not.  

Best of luck.


----------



## FourT6and2 (Oct 9, 2019)

Kamurah said:


> Price point of the Qutest aside...ground loops can be resolved fairly easily.   While I run balanced *everything* as a matter of choice, unbalanced signals are perfectly acceptable for short runs.
> 
> A few minor housekeeping steps will make for a happy listening experience:
> 
> ...



... or I can just get a product that has XLR jacks. The Grace SDAC is balanced and only $150. The SMSL SU-8 V2 DAC is only $219. Both tested well and seem to get the job done. In terms of similar price as the Qutest, there's the Benchmark DAC3-B, Matrix Audio X-SABRE Pro, and the Violectric V850. Also if the measurements on Audio Science Review are to be trusted, the Qutest has four filters, but two of them do absolutely nothing different from the other two and are redundant. That + lacking balanced connections = a no-go for me.

I live in an old building with bad wiring and all sorts of interference issues from power lines and WIFI and generators, etc. So balanced is a must.


----------



## Kamurah

I understand where you are coming from...and using XLR connections seems like an easy fix; but if the power conditions in your building are as bad as you describe, I would give a strong recommendation for you to consider investing in a voltage regulator AND an isolation transformer - regardless of if you plan to use a balanced signal path or not.

Old, degraded, or compromised wiring is susceptible to a myriad of additional unwanted artifacts....everything from sagging power to the interference you describe.  Audio equipment - ALL audio equipment - regardless of the pedigree of design or connection standard, are vulnerable to power variances like these.  It would be unfortunate to spend this amount of money only to be disappointed in the end.  After all, what we are really pursuing is the enjoyment of sound right?

Pursuant to that, while I think Amir is really doing an admirable job over at Audio Science Review, I would support the old adage of listening with your ears and not your eyes.  Measurements are great for general categorization, but do not tell the whole story.  There are plenty of examples of equipment designs that measure poorly but sound amazing...and vice versa.

From the original list you offered, it appears you have a nice budget to work with WRT your proposed setup.  Since price is not the most limiting factor in your purchase decision, maybe focus on what YOU think sounds good and works best (synergy-wise) within your listening environment.  Find a dealer that will support your journey by letting you return anything that doesn't get your blood pumping...and enjoy the process!


----------



## MacMan31

I have balance cables coming for my SDAC connected to my 789. Right now it's just connected via the SE output of the SDAC into the amp. Also I'm using the balance headphone out for my 6XX and 58X. If I'm spending the money on this amp I may as well use it to it's full potential. In any case I have question. So I have seen in Zeos reviews that he has placed some sort of arrow indicator on the volume knob of this amp as some others as well. Does anyone know what he uses or where I could buy them? Without listening I cannot tell how high the volume is. Or perhaps I could colour in the indent on the volume knob with a white marker.


----------



## kdoof

MacMan31 said:


> I have balance cables coming for my SDAC connected to my 789. Right now it's just connected via the SE output of the SDAC into the amp. Also I'm using the balance headphone out for my 6XX and 58X. If I'm spending the money on this amp I may as well use it to it's full potential. In any case I have question. So I have seen in Zeos reviews that he has placed some sort of arrow indicator on the volume knob of this amp as some others as well. Does anyone know what he uses or where I could buy them? Without listening I cannot tell how high the volume is. Or perhaps I could colour in the indent on the volume knob with a white marker.



I think he cuts it out of a post-it note.


----------



## MacMan31

kdoof said:


> I think he cuts it out of a post-it note.



So I just use the sticky part of a post-it note?? Kind of a waste of paper. The volume knob has an indent in it to indicate volume level. Perhaps its possible to colour it in with a white marker.


----------



## FourT6and2 (Oct 13, 2019)

MacMan31 said:


> So I just use the sticky part of a post-it note?? Kind of a waste of paper. The volume knob has an indent in it to indicate volume level. Perhaps its possible to colour it in with a white marker.



Try this: https://www.amazon.com/Dyvicl-Metal...nt=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-467431247444&psc=1


----------



## MacMan31

FourT6and2 said:


> Try this: https://www.amazon.com/Dyvicl-Metal...nt=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-467431247444&psc=1



Cool. Thanks for the link. If these companies are not going to provide a even a small screen to tell us things like volume level at least make it easily indicated on the volume knob.


----------



## FRZFLX

Hi All,

I'm new to the hobby and have the following two chains in mind:

1. Modi Multi Bit > Loki > Vali 2 > (unbalanced) THX 789
2. SDAC > (balanced) THX 789

Is it possible to link the Vali 2 to the THX 789? Was interested in this combination to incl. some warmth to my music when I feel like it. If there are other suggested chains with a similar price value also interested to hear.


I'm planning to use this with Argon MK3 Mod headphone and Andromeda S IEM.


----------



## sennfan83261

FRZFLX said:


> Is it possible to link the Vali 2 to the THX 789? Was interested in this combination to incl. some warmth to my music when I feel like it. If there are other suggested chains with a similar price value also interested to hear.


Yes, the Vali 2 has a preamp output according to Schitt (see below).  Basically, hook up an RCA cable to Vali's preamp output and then hook that into the SE input of the THX 789.  On the THX AAA 789, switch between the SDAC-B and Vali 2 inputs using the input selector switch.



> Serious Power, Gain Switching, Preamp Outputs
> Vali delivers 1W into 32 ohms for hard-to-drive headphones—and, at the same time, offers a low gain mode for low-noise performance with sensitive headphones. You can also use the preamp outputs to add a tube preamp to your power amp or powered monitors.


----------



## FRZFLX

sennfan83261 said:


> Yes, the Vali 2 has a preamp output according to Schitt (see below).  Basically, hook up an RCA cable to Vali's preamp output and then hook that into the SE input of the THX 789.  On the THX AAA 789, switch between the SDAC-B and Vali 2 inputs using the input selector switch.



Thanks! I see that your home setup is is SDAC-B > THX 789 / DarKVoice. Did you ever put a tube between the SDAC and the THX? just wondering if the Vali 2 is worth it. Any recommendations are welcome.


----------



## sennfan83261

FRZFLX said:


> Thanks! I see that your home setup is is SDAC-B > THX 789 / DarKVoice. Did you ever put a tube between the SDAC and the THX? just wondering if the Vali 2 is worth it. Any recommendations are welcome.


I recently tried that on my THX AAA 789 with my Darkvoice 336SE (RCA grey glass 6F8G + Tung-Sol 7236) as a preamp (fed by the SDAC-B SE output) and the sound was very, very close when volume matched (as best as I can) with the SDAC-B balanced input.  This was done while listening to my HE-500 on the THX AAA 789's balanced output.


----------



## FRZFLX

sennfan83261 said:


> I recently tried that on my THX AAA 789 with my Darkvoice 336SE (RCA grey glass 6F8G + Tung-Sol 7236) as a preamp (fed by the SDAC-B SE output) and the sound was very, very close when volume matched (as best as I can) with the SDAC-B balanced input.  This was done while listening to my HE-500 on the THX AAA 789's balanced output.



If the difference isn't that big I'll just go for the Modi MB and Loki. Thanks!


----------



## sennfan83261 (Oct 14, 2019)

FRZFLX said:


> If the difference isn't that big I'll just go for the Modi MB and Loki. Thanks!


Oh, I forgot to tell you earlier that my Darkvoice is modded (Fitz mod).  Anyways, I just tried switching power tubes (Tung-Sol 7236 for a 1950's RCA 6AS7G coke bottle, 20min warmup) while listening to my HD6XX and there really isn't any significant audible difference between the DV's preamp to the 789 (RCA) and SDAC-B to 789 (balanced) (volume matched by hand) with my HD6XX connected to the 789 balanced or TRS single-ended.  The theme largely continues when I listen to my HD6XX directly through the Darkvoice's headphone output and comparing that to the HD6XX through the 789's balanced output.  However, there is a difference between the HD6XX via the Darkvoice and the 789's TRS single-ended output, the latter of which sounds a bit more closed in.

Keep in mind though that the RCA 6F8G (+ adapter) plus either the Tung-Sol 7236 or the '50s RCA 6AS7G I used are far better than the OEM tubes that come with the Darkvoice.  Then again, low impedance dynamics (e.g. Grado HF-3's) and planars (e.g. HE500 and LCD-2) sound like ass on the Darkvoice and an un-modded Darkvoice can exhibit buzzing with new/newish tubes that haven't been burned in.  So, the Darkvoice essentially can only pair with high impedance headphones like the HD6XX (300ohms) in my collection.  Still, the Darkvoice+HD6XX (with my preferred tube pairing) being imperceptible (to my ears) to the HD6XX balanced from the THX AAA 789 is pretty cool in of itself.


----------



## ReAlien

I'd like to share my opinion about using Gain 2 on THX. I never use it anymore as I have found it to be detrimental to the sound quality in my terms. Now, I use only Gain 1 mode as it provides much more fidelity and clarity to the sound, imho. Tried it with Verum 1, HE4 and Final Carbon (custom made headphone from Ukraine).


----------



## lator

ReAlien said:


> I'd like to share my opinion about using Gain 2 on THX. I never use it anymore as I have found it to be detrimental to the sound quality in my terms. Now, I use only Gain 1 mode as it provides much more fidelity and clarity to the sound, imho. Tried it with Verum 1, HE4 and Final Carbon (custom made headphone from Ukraine).


Interesting because I changed to Gain 2 after listening with Gain 1 first. Are you using balanced or single ended headphone cable?


----------



## ReAlien

lator said:


> Interesting because I changed to Gain 2 after listening with Gain 1 first. Are you using balanced or single ended headphone cable?


Balanced one only. I noticed this effect with different headphones.


----------



## lator

ReAlien said:


> Balanced one only. I noticed this effect with different headphones.


Thanks. Think I'll do more testing with Gain 1 now that I am also using balanced cable.


----------



## lator

lator said:


> Thanks. Think I'll do more testing with Gain 1 now that I am also using balanced cable.


After few days of testing indeed it seems like Gain 1 offers improved microdynamics and soundstage depth while using balanced headphone out. Especially bass region seems more tuneful with extra clarity. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## MacMan31

I'm using gain 2 on my 789 with my 6XX, 58X and Focal Elex. By upping the gain am I simply adding more power? I'm using my headphones with the balance XLR out.


----------



## adeadcrab

I think it's just gain differences, power is different with 1/4 output vs balanced output.


----------



## RestlessZombi

MacMan31 said:


> I'm using gain 2 on my 789 with my 6XX, 58X and Focal Elex. By upping the gain am I simply adding more power? I'm using my headphones with the balance XLR out.



The way I think of Gain is its mostly just a multiplier of power for increasing the voltage sent to the Headphones, more power = more volume, but headphones act differently thus sound differently having been sent the extra power. A lack of power usually reduces the bass response, some headphones don't lack low end thus are not affected by having this lower power while some need it to even be audible. My Verum One's are 8Ohm Headphone and thus shouldn't need a lot of power and this is true for the volume of them, but there is an audible difference between Low and Medium Gain, mostly in the vocals being more pronounced at Medium, which I feel i prefer. I would guess this is due to a bump in low to mid response with the extra gain/power.

The Amp has the following mentioned about the gain on the Massdrop Site: _Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x, 6.6x (-4, +6, +16 dB)._


----------



## ReAlien

RestlessZombi said:


> The way I think of Gain is its mostly just a multiplier of power for increasing the voltage sent to the Headphones, more power = more volume, but headphones act differently thus sound differently having been sent the extra power. A lack of power usually reduces the bass response, some headphones don't lack low end thus are not affected by having this lower power while some need it to even be audible. My Verum One's are 8Ohm Headphone and thus shouldn't need a lot of power and this is true for the volume of them, but there is an audible difference between Low and Medium Gain, mostly in the vocals being more pronounced at Medium, which I feel i prefer. I would guess this is due to a bump in low to mid response with the extra gain/power.
> 
> The Amp has the following mentioned about the gain on the Massdrop Site: _Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x, 6.6x (-4, +6, +16 dB)._



I also had been using my THX with Verum 1 for half a year. And I have found that the only sound I like is at Gain 1.

Also, please bear in mind that using Verum with THX you void THX's warranty as it is prohibited to use it with headphones wwith less than 12 Ohm.


----------



## FRZFLX

ReAlien said:


> I also had been using my THX with Verum 1 for half a year. And I have found that the only sound I like is at Gain 1.
> 
> Also, please bear in mind that using Verum with THX you void THX's warranty as it is prohibited to use it with headphones wwith less than 12 Ohm.


Do you mean 120 Ohm? Verum is 80 right?


----------



## RestlessZombi

FRZFLX said:


> Do you mean 120 Ohm? Verum is 80 right?



The Verum One is an 8 (Eight) Ohm Headphone. Works fine on my THX 789 but, as mentioned, its not advised to use such headphones.


----------



## FRZFLX

RestlessZombi said:


> The Verum One is an 8 (Eight) Ohm Headphone. Works fine on my THX 789 but, as mentioned, its not advised to use such headphones.


Ok thanks, good to know!


----------



## MacMan31

RestlessZombi said:


> The way I think of Gain is its mostly just a multiplier of power for increasing the voltage sent to the Headphones, more power = more volume, but headphones act differently thus sound differently having been sent the extra power. A lack of power usually reduces the bass response, some headphones don't lack low end thus are not affected by having this lower power while some need it to even be audible. My Verum One's are 8Ohm Headphone and thus shouldn't need a lot of power and this is true for the volume of them, but there is an audible difference between Low and Medium Gain, mostly in the vocals being more pronounced at Medium, which I feel i prefer. I would guess this is due to a bump in low to mid response with the extra gain/power.
> 
> The Amp has the following mentioned about the gain on the Massdrop Site: _Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x, 6.6x (-4, +6, +16 dB)._



So basically using mid or high gain is not necessarily a bad thing. It just perhaps changes how a headphone would sound. Right?


----------



## FourT6and2 (Oct 28, 2019)

Increasing gain also increase your noise floor. So you want to use the least amount of gain as possible to get the volume you need. No more. If your noise floor is at -120dB and you increase your gain by 20dB (just an example), you also increase your noise floor by the same amount and now it's at -100dB.


----------



## RestlessZombi

MacMan31 said:


> So basically using mid or high gain is not necessarily a bad thing. It just perhaps changes how a headphone would sound. Right?



Yeah, that is correct. It depends on the headphones a lot.. I have Verum One's that are 8 Ohm headphones and Sennheiser HD650 that are 300 Ohm headphones, both i can use on all gain levels but the sound output will just be different for each. The 8 ohm will be louder on all gain levels compared to the 300 ohm pair, but by matching the volume levels between the changing gain levels the sound would be different on both pairs too. Where the 8 ohm would be better on low/med and the 300 ohm better on the Med/High gain settings the difference is very much a personal opinion on whats better to you. I have used the 8 Ohm on high gain and it sounds a lot like medium but i have far less control of the volume, nothing to say i couldn't use this, just it wouldn't be a good idea.


----------



## MacMan31

FourT6and2 said:


> Increasing gain also increase your noise floor. So you want to use the least amount of gain as possible to get the volume you need. No more. If your noise floor is at -120dB and you increase your gain by 20dB (just an example), you also increase your noise floor by the same amount and now it's at -100dB.



Well I've never needed to use anything higher than low gain on any amp I have used. In any case I'm not really sure what "noise floor" is.


----------



## FourT6and2

MacMan31 said:


> Well I've never needed to use anything higher than low gain on any amp I have used. In any case I'm not really sure what "noise floor" is.



I'll send you a PM.


----------



## lator

Interesting comparison in Benchmark HPA4 thread with THX https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ben...fier-impressions.876705/page-35#post-15279648


----------



## mixman

lator said:


> Interesting comparison in Benchmark HPA4 thread with THX https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ben...fier-impressions.876705/page-35#post-15279648


Gotta admit I did not find that an interesting comparison at all. I would be much more interested in an MJ2 vs THX vs LP vs Cayin IHA6 comparison or an HPA4 vs V281 vs GSX (Mini or MK2) vs SPL Phonitor comparison. If the HPA4 didn't sound better than the THX then I would be shocked.


----------



## lator

mixman said:


> If the HPA4 didn't sound better than the THX then I would be shocked.


IMO with Ether Flow THX achieves very good sound balance and I have considered HPA4 as a possible next upgrade the "heavier" sound signature is not exactly what I would be looking for.


----------



## FourT6and2 (Nov 9, 2019)

Have put about 18 hours on HPA4 and THX 789. DAC is Benchmark DAC3-B. Headphones are Empyrean and HD820.

They are quite close in sound. THX 789 seems to be a tiny bit brighter. Like the attack on bass and drum notes has a bit more of a snap to it. Whereas the HPA4 is overall slightly deeper/thicker sounding. More weight behind everything, though. And this is with me trying to nitpick. They are really quite similar. Features aside, it's hard to justify $3,000 for the HPA4 when the 789 is $400 and they sound equally good.

That said, does anybody know what XLR input level the THX 789 likes to see? 4v? 2v? Higher? Lower? The DAC3 at 0dB output puts out something like 13v. And it has two pad settings: -10dB and -20dB. -10dB is close to 3v - 4v I think. And -20dB is around 1.5v. Benchmark says you want to set the DAC up such that your headphone amp's volume control is close to maxed out when at a comfortable listening volume. But the 789's gain control is a bit weird in that Gain I attenuates the signal, Gain II and Gain III both boost. There is no unity gain setting... Been using the DAC3 at -10dB into the 789 on Gain I and my listening volume is between 11:00 and 1:00.

Either way, the 789 sounds great. Authoritative and punchy and clean. What goes in, comes out. Listening to something like Tool's "Invincible" is a visceral experience, especially when the bass comes in at the end of the first verse. It's like I'm standing right next to Justin Chancellor on stage, the drums and guitar and bass swirling around me. Fantastic.


----------



## AndrewM888

FourT6and2 said:


> Have put about 18 hours on HPA4 and THX 789. DAC is Benchmark DAC3-B. Headphones are Empyrean and HD820.
> 
> They are quite close in sound. THX 789 seems to be a tiny bit brighter. Like the attack on bass and drum notes has a bit more of a snap to it. Whereas the HPA4 is overall slightly deeper/thicker sounding. More weight behind everything, though. And this is with me trying to nitpick. They are really quite similar. Features aside, it's hard to justify $3,000 for the HPA4 when the 789 is $400 and they sound equally good.
> 
> ...



Hi! DAC3 B is a great pairing with AAA and we use the two together to demonstrate AAA on the road.

789 XLR inputs can tolerate:
up to +19dBu input (XLR or RCA) in Gain 1/2
up to +8 dBu input (XLR or RCA) in Gain 1/2/3.

When paired with DAC3 I recommend:

a) set DAC3 XLR Output Pad Jumpers to -10dB (+14 dBu) (see P. 25 of the manual), and using 789 in Gain 1 or 2 depending on your HP sensitivity. This will give you optimal SNR for the system. Use 789 knob as your volume control. 

b) if you find a) too loud e.g. not using much range on the 789 volume control, then set DAC3 pads to -20dB (+4 dBu). In this setup you can use any 789 gain setting 1/2/3 without risk of clipping. Use 789 knob as your volume control.

c) if you find a) too quiet and you want to squeeze out 5-6dB higher output power from the 789, then:
- set DAC3 pads to 0dB (+24 dBu).
- introduce -5dB digital attenation e.g. in your PC player software, to bring the DAC3 output back down to +19dBu
- use 789 in gain 1/2 to taste. Use 789 knob as your volume control.

Above guide remains same regardless of unbal/bal output.

Happy Listening!


----------



## FourT6and2

AndrewM888 said:


> Hi! DAC3 B is a great pairing with AAA and we use the two together to demonstrate AAA on the road.
> 
> 789 XLR inputs can tolerate:
> up to +19dBu input (XLR or RCA) in Gain 1/2
> ...



Perfect, thanks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we published a guest review from Jana on the Drop THX AAA 789 headphone amplifier.
A ladies point of view on this special amp: https://www.headfonia.com/drop-thx-aaa-789-review/


----------



## ReAlien

I came to report that, recently, I have sold my THX AAA 789, which I have listened to since January this year. It was a very good audio friend of mine who supported me in my melomaniac endeavors with various headphones (even the 8 Ohm ones though it is not recommended in the manual). It is indeed a neutral, powerful, transparent amp that is hard to beat at that cost. Thank you Massdrop and THX for this wonderful product, I have found a new audio love, however.


----------



## Sukotto85

Hi All, 

I have recently bought the THX AAA 789 and now I am wondering which dac to pair it with? Currently I only own single-end headphones, DT 1990 Pro's and th AKG K712 Pro's. With he headphones I own should I buy a unbalanced or balanced dac? A couple of dacs I have been looking at are SMSL SU-8 and the Topping D50S. My budget is £300, although I can increase this if necessary.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## adeadcrab

Topping D50 / D50S is a great little starting DAC for the price.


----------



## bequietjk

Sukotto85 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have recently bought the THX AAA 789 and now I am wondering which dac to pair it with? Currently I only own single-end headphones, DT 1990 Pro's and th AKG K712 Pro's. With he headphones I own should I buy a unbalanced or balanced dac? A couple of dacs I have been looking at are SMSL SU-8 and the Topping D50S. My budget is £300, although I can increase this if necessary.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Hey!  I have a 789 on its way to my house and i plan to use my K712 after the balanced mod.  Ill give my impressions after its all said and done, and evaluated.  

Im stoked!


----------



## Sukotto85

adeadcrab said:


> Topping D50 / D50S is a great little starting DAC for the price.



Would I hear any differences between single-ended and balanced, other than an increased volume? Should I be buying a balanced dac for future proofing? Or would I get more for my money on an unbalanced dac? 



bequietjk said:


> Hey!  I have a 789 on its way to my house and i plan to use my K712 after the balanced mod.  Ill give my impressions after its all said and done, and evaluated.
> 
> Im stoked!



Thanks for that! How much did the mod cost?


----------



## bequietjk

@Sukotto85 The only thing I came up with was the $10 for the 4pin male connector here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BYE8R5G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I still need to buy a cable with a 4pin female connector to plug that part into the headphone, and the other end preferably would have a standard 4pin xlr but I can't find any cable like it.  So, either I have to make one or buy an assortment of connecting cables and make sure the polaritys are correct.

Here's a reference https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-akg-k712-pro-support-and-impressions-thread.659251/page-233

I can't wait.  I'll try the SE end of the 789 first, create the mod and experience the difference.

Hope that helps :]


----------



## eeagle

Sukotto85 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have recently bought the THX AAA 789 and now I am wondering which dac to pair it with? Currently I only own single-end headphones, DT 1990 Pro's and th AKG K712 Pro's. With he headphones I own should I buy a unbalanced or balanced dac? A couple of dacs I have been looking at are SMSL SU-8 and the Topping D50S. My budget is £300, although I can increase this if necessary.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I have the SU-8, but far prefer the X Airist R-2R DAC with most amps I own, especially the more sterile THX 789.  Not much reason to go full balanced with the 789 as it is not a true balanced amp internally so SE DACs are fine and make little difference.  I primarily use my 789 with HiFiMan HE560's in balanced mode as the extra power benefits planar HPs.


----------



## Sukotto85

eeagle said:


> I have the SU-8, but far prefer the X Airist R-2R DAC with most amps I own, especially the more sterile THX 789.  Not much reason to go full balanced with the 789 as it is not a true balanced amp internally so SE DACs are fine and make little difference.  I primarily use my 789 with HiFiMan HE560's in balanced mode as the extra power benefits planar HPs.



I've spent around 8 hours looking through forums and I am still no closer to making a decision! 

So there's literally no point in getting a balanced dac for the 789? What about if I get a balanced tube amp in the future, would it then be a good idea to get balanced? Does a balanced dac truly make a difference in sound compared to a unbalanced dac when paired with a balanced amp? Another user suggested that it won't make any difference to the sound. After all the time I have spent reading into this subject, I am not closing to finding an answer. To be fair, the more I have looked in things the more confused I am. Why can't it be simple haha!


----------



## Sukotto85

bequietjk said:


> @Sukotto85 The only thing I came up with was the $10 for the 4pin male connector here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BYE8R5G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I still need to buy a cable with a 4pin female connector to plug that part into the headphone, and the other end preferably would have a standard 4pin xlr but I can't find any cable like it.  So, either I have to make one or buy an assortment of connecting cables and make sure the polaritys are correct.
> 
> ...



Let me know how it goes


----------



## eeagle (Nov 16, 2019)

Sukotto85 said:


> I've spent around 8 hours looking through forums and I am still no closer to making a decision!
> 
> So there's literally no point in getting a balanced dac for the 789? What about if I get a balanced tube amp in the future, would it then be a good idea to get balanced? Does a balanced dac truly make a difference in sound compared to a unbalanced dac when paired with a balanced amp? Another user suggested that it won't make any difference to the sound. After all the time I have spent reading into this subject, I am not closing to finding an answer. To be fair, the more I have looked in things the more confused I am. Why can't it be simple haha!


Well everyone hears differently, so the difference between balanced and SE is in the ear of the listener.  IMO balanced makes a difference for long cable runs,  and added power for inefficient HP's.  I hear little sonic difference between the two, once the level is adjusted;  louder balanced always seems better initially, but SE is just as good at the same level.  Sometimes I think it is more about marketing than SQ.  There is a lot of truly outstanding SE equipment out there.  My Beyerdynamic A20 is a SE  sleeper amp that drives my T1 and DT 1990 to perfection, one day I would like to try an A2.  Another impressive piece of gear is the Grace Design m900 (Drop m9XX).


----------



## PopZeus

Sukotto85 said:


> I've spent around 8 hours looking through forums and I am still no closer to making a decision!
> 
> So there's literally no point in getting a balanced dac for the 789? What about if I get a balanced tube amp in the future, would it then be a good idea to get balanced? Does a balanced dac truly make a difference in sound compared to a unbalanced dac when paired with a balanced amp? Another user suggested that it won't make any difference to the sound. After all the time I have spent reading into this subject, I am not closing to finding an answer. To be fair, the more I have looked in things the more confused I am. Why can't it be simple haha!



With the 789, a balanced source is a bit louder and blacker than a SE source, but the overall quality difference is very minimal. I suppose that would only be a concern if your headphones were either extremely efficient (audible hiss) or inefficient (not enough headroom). 

One of the reasons I love the Airist RDAC with the 789 is it adds just enough smoothness and sweetness to an otherwise transparent and uncolored amp.


----------



## lator (Nov 19, 2019)

Sukotto85 said:


> So there's literally no point in getting a balanced dac for the 789?


If your source is dual mono design you might get better results with XLR inputs. XLR output for headphones gives excellent results however. JDS Atom is better sounding amp for single ended headphone cables in my experience for less $ (I own both).

edit: Removed misinformation concerning XLR path op-amping.


----------



## adeadcrab

I'm getting a balanced DAC solely in case 10 years down the road I live in a place with a couch far away from the PC, where I can run long lengths of XLR cable from the DAC to the 789 and chill on the couch..


----------



## AndrewM888

lator said:


> 789 works best with single ended RCA inputs for source and balanced XLR output for headphones. XLR inputs have extra op-amps in the signal path. Of course if you get grounds loops or hum with RCA then XLR is preferrable option. Also if your source is dual mono design you might get better results with XLR inputs. JDS Atom is better sounding amp for single ended headphone cables in my experience (I own both).


789 has same # opamps in the signal path for XLR-in vs RCA-in.


----------



## alpovs

lator said:


> XLR inputs have extra op-amps in the signal path.


I wonder where this myth came from. I read about it not for the first time. And always it's just a blunt statement without any support. The designer rebuts this (above) but then it comes again.


----------



## Sukotto85

lator said:


> 789 works best with single ended RCA inputs for source and balanced XLR output for headphones. XLR inputs have extra op-amps in the signal path. Of course if you get grounds loops or hum with RCA then XLR is preferrable option. Also if your source is dual mono design you might get better results with XLR inputs. JDS Atom is better sounding amp for single ended headphone cables in my experience (I own both).



This is why it's so confusing. So you're saying I could've spent 1/4 of the cost and I would've got the same performance on single ended?

Here's a quote from Andrew Mason THX Ltd. Analog & Power Engineering Expert

"If using RCA or XLR input, regardless of gain setting, the output power specs remain unchanged. And for either RCA single-ended or XLR-3 balanced input, the XLR-4 output connector will produce a balanced output signal. i.e. if you use RCA input, we amplify your signal plus generate an inverted version to make the XLR-4 put out balanced audio - up to the full 6000mW if you're crazy like that."


----------



## prymortal

I connected my SMSL SU-8 to the THX Via RCA & XLR at the same time since theres an input switch on the THX to swtich inputs.... Anyway the result was the sound was unsurprisingly the same but louder with XLR, If i had to put a number on it i'd say 3DB but technical people know what it actually is? To my ears about 3DB on Gain 1 & Gain 2. Nothing else. Output was Balanced to HD800 so you know if there was a difference it'd probably be audible.


----------



## FourT6and2

prymortal said:


> I connected my SMSL SU-8 to the THX Via RCA & XLR at the same time since theres an input switch on the THX to swtich inputs.... Anyway the result was the sound was unsurprisingly the same but louder with XLR, If i had to put a number on it i'd say 3DB but technical people know what it actually is? To my ears about 3DB on Gain 1 & Gain 2. Nothing else. Output was Balanced to HD800 so you know if there was a difference it'd probably be audible.



Sounds about right. There shouldn't be a tonal difference between the two. One is just slightly louder than the other.


----------



## alpovs

prymortal said:


> I connected my SMSL SU-8 to the THX Via RCA & XLR at the same time since theres an input switch on the THX to swtich inputs.... Anyway the result was the sound was unsurprisingly the same but louder with XLR, If i had to put a number on it i'd say 3DB but technical people know what it actually is? To my ears about 3DB on Gain 1 & Gain 2. Nothing else. Output was Balanced to HD800 so you know if there was a difference it'd probably be audible.


Why not read the specs? Here you go: https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/details#details

*Balanced Output*
Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x, 6.6x (-4, +6, +16 dB), selectable via front switch*
Single-Ended Output*
Gain: 0.33x , 1.0x, 3.3x (-10, 0, +10 dB), selectable via front switch

So, the difference is 6 dB.


----------



## prymortal

alpovs said:


> Why not read the specs? Here you go: https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/details#details
> 
> *Balanced Output*
> Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x, 6.6x (-4, +6, +16 dB), selectable via front switch
> ...


You are referring to *output*, not *input* like I am. But from memory going off specs yeah its still 6DB difference, Sounds like 3db though


----------



## alpovs

prymortal said:


> You are referring to *output*, not *input* like I am. But from memory going off specs yeah its still 6DB difference, Sounds like 3db though


Of course output. You heard the difference in the output and the input was the same source according to what you wrote. And the output is different. 
Maybe the output of your source is different too. That's why you hear 3 dB difference instead of 6. You can find the specs of your source.


----------



## bequietjk

Call me crazy, but when I get my 789 on Friday I'll be up for testing potentially 3 power supplies.  I believe the 3rd is regulated, not totally sure.

1)stock smps
2)My trusty CSI5003XE





3)And the trusty eBay LPS.  I have one in 5V already.  Build quality is stellar.





If there are ZERO benefits from the CSI5003XE thennn I probably won't consider the black LPS.  But we'll see.  If there is a slight change in sound and for the better (blacker background, yadda yadda yadda) then I'll need to pickup the black LPS in 24V.


----------



## lator

AndrewM888 said:


> 789 has same # opamps in the signal path for XLR-in vs RCA-in.


Thanks for the correction.


----------



## lator

bequietjk said:


> Call me crazy, but when I get my 789 on Friday I'll be up for testing potentially 3 power supplies.
> 
> If there are ZERO benefits from the CSI5003XE thennn I probably won't consider the black LPS.  But we'll see.  If there is a slight change in sound and for the better (blacker background, yadda yadda yadda) then I'll need to pickup the black LPS in 24V.


Not crazy at all. Please report your findings. I am considering a custom built LPS from MCRU.


----------



## Currawong

I made some comments about cheap balanced DACs in my review of the AAA 789 which I posted earlier today:


----------



## PopZeus (Nov 19, 2019)

Currawong said:


> I made some comments about cheap balanced DACs in my review of the AAA 789 which I posted earlier today:




Great review, Amos! One of the best things about the 789, to borrow a line of thinking from Andrew Jones, is that the value it represents allows one to apply the savings to a bigger budget for upstream gear like a DAC. In my case, the combo of the 789 with the R2R-1 is an excellent match, as the components are of similar sound quality.


----------



## bequietjk (Nov 27, 2019)

Imo.  My HUMBLE opinion.  I believe there is less fatigue at the very least when using my LPS.

Currently auditioning the 789 with my K712.  I cant imagine what balanced will sound like, after i make my balanced cable 

So far the 789 is turning out to be a wicked piece.


----------



## bequietjk

Still waiting for my Canare cable to balance mod my K712 cans.  In the meantime, @lator i'm curious how the MCRU LPS will turn out.  Now, i'm thinking Sbooster BOTW!  They sell a 24V.  Though, it is twice the cost of the ebay LPS.  This all could be for sound quality better or worse, but it's the adventure that makes this fun


----------



## lator

bequietjk said:


> Still waiting for my Canare cable to balance mod my K712 cans.  In the meantime, @lator i'm curious how the MCRU LPS will turn out.  Now, i'm thinking Sbooster BOTW!  They sell a 24V.  Though, it is twice the cost of the ebay LPS.  This all could be for sound quality better or worse, but it's the adventure that makes this fun


Sadly I can't find out in a while. Our country has a month long postal workers strike and now also air/sea travel is joining in so probably can't get anything delivered in for a long time.


----------



## bequietjk

Im picking up an sbooster asap and relay my impressions here.  15% restocking fee on it for return, in case there is no improvement but im 99% sure there will be glory


----------



## bequietjk

Something worth noting imo...

My linear bench power supply shows Low and High gain both using 0.17a current draw, whereas Medium gain uses 0.16a.  Can anyone explain this?  I'm genuinely curious!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Dec 3, 2019)

got one of the new drop branded versions today and right off the bat i can say the fit and finish was nicer on the older unit i have. this one is not at all what i would call bad but there are a few tiny spots / things i see right off the bat and the paint at least on this one while nice is not as nicely done and even as the older ones i have (i own 2 of the older massdrop units both are nicer overall imo). if someone did not have both to compare though i think most would be fine with the drop version. the front face panel is not exactly straight on one side it sticks up higher then on the other same on the back, there are a few small specks in the paint and one tiny bare spot on a back corner that can be touched up easy enough its VERY small. they added an indicator on the volume knob now and the switch on the back feels MUCH stiffer then the older one its much harder to click up and down. i hate the new logo design plain and simple. why they did not change that before production is beyond me. three different fonts on the front makes it look cheaper imo. they have totally different serial numbering now and its printed on the unit now instead of a sticker. ill sit down with both units tonight and tomm for extended listening and see what if any at all sound differences there are but i think its just cosmetic from what ive read. as i said overall if i had to keep one it would be the older one when looking at fit and finish overall. but i do like the new volume knob better.

one other thing is the selector knob is actually nice and straight on this one when you set it to 2 its nice and straight. same for 1 and 3. one of my old ones is way off and the other is close but not as close as the new drop version


----------



## sennfan83261

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> got one of the new drop branded versions today and right off the bat i can say the fit and finish was nicer on the older unit i have. this one is not at all what i would call bad but there are a few tiny spots / things i see right off the bat and the paint at least on this one while nice is not as nicely done and even as the older ones i have (i own 2 of the older massdrop units both are nicer overall imo)...


Can you post pictures of the newer unit?  I have an older one, but I'm curious to see the cosmetic changes to the Drop-branded THX AAA 789.  The pictures on the product page are obvious photoshops of older units.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

ill take some tomm. it literally looks like the images they show. basically exactly, minus the new volume knob. but the front logo looks exactly as they show now in the shopped photos.


----------



## bequietjk

Just dropping by to say that the 789 @ Gain2 with balance modded AKG K712 is just splendid. 

<3


----------



## hakka (Dec 10, 2019)

sennfan83261 said:


> Can you post pictures of the newer unit?  I have an older one, but I'm curious to see the cosmetic changes to the Drop-branded THX AAA 789.  The pictures on the product page are obvious photoshops of older units.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

nice pic. im still away and have not been able to take pics as i dont have the unit with me here.


----------



## PaganDL

Just my two cents,

As a new owner of a new 789, I notice how clean & quiet it is, definitely worth the wait & trouble to get it.
Still amusing how much the hype artist reviewers hyped this particular amp up.
Definitely a nice addition to the collection.

Hope everyone has a great day !


----------



## curentatu

I am quite curious if a good PSU will provide improvements in the sound quality.


----------



## alpovs

I don't see how it can further be improved.


----------



## kelvinwsy

I am running my 789 with a 24v Linear 70 watt PSU with peak current 3 amp.. Sounds sweeter in the highs vs the standard SMPS PSU


----------



## tim0chan

kelvinwsy said:


> I am running my 789 with a 24v Linear 70 watt PSU with peak current 3 amp.. Sounds sweeter in the highs vs the standard SMPS PSU


But does the improvement justify the cost?


----------



## bequietjk

I reeeeally wanna hear it with an sbooster.


----------



## kelvinwsy

Only 70 usd with delivery! A Diy 30 amp Power cord.. A Diy pure silver DC supply cable 
All kess for 150 usd 
Yes it is worth it


----------



## bequietjk

Or you could pick up this regulated linear supply like I have.  Andrew recommends the LPS to be regulated.  Just a heads up.

And, it's adjustable.  So for the future you'll be able to use it with anything else you'd like to power with an LPS!  It was actually my first LPS and I used it to power my Project Horizon hybrid tube amp @48V.  If you guys want I'll take a pic of the inside.  I've looked already and there's a nice size toroidal transformer in there 






https://www.amazon.com/Economical-B..._1_1?keywords=csi5003xe&qid=1576128642&sr=8-1


----------



## bequietjk

Switching back to the supplied SMPS, the difference isn't magnificent.  So I think it really comes down to the design, of course, and in this case I think my recommendation is to get a very well designed LPS if you're planning to.  At some point I will try the sbooster but my wallet can't handle that at this moment xD


----------



## lator

bequietjk said:


> Switching back to the supplied SMPS, the difference isn't magnificent.  So I think it really comes down to the design, of course, and in this case I think my recommendation is to get a very well designed LPS if you're planning to.  At some point I will try the sbooster but my wallet can't handle that at this moment xD


I have also decided at least for the time being to keep using the factory supplied psu. Perhaps more high end THX solutions will become available between the current entry level and Benchmark HPA4 price points.


----------



## geoffalter11

Hi all... My wife just got me a 789 for the holidays.  A couple questions for those willing to help me out...

My current set up is a Vinshine Reference R2R DAC into a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2.  I use RCAs because the Gilmore is SE.  Therefore, I can only currently use the 789 SE.  I need to purchase XLR cables for interconnects and my headphones if needed.  Which leads to my 2 questions...

1. Do I need XLR interconnects to run from my Vinshine to the 789 in order to maximize the performance of the 789? I understand the amp is not a true balanced topology.
2. Does the Balanced headphone jack engage the full power and resolution of the amp without the XLR interconnects?

Thus far I have only used the amp SE and it sounds really good.  However, I can hear a bit of speed loss versus my Gilmore.  I expect that to change once I use the amp to its full affect.  The sound is extremely clear.  I can hear my Vinshine's incredible musicality.  The Gilmore is an extremely capable little amp, and thus far I can't tell if the 789 is better or just different.  What I can tell is that the 789 is extremely revealing of the source.  I can't wait to hear the 789 balanced and then make a more informed decision on my system's future.

Thank you for answering my questions...


----------



## alpovs

geoffalter11 said:


> 1. Do I need XLR interconnects to run from my Vinshine to the 789 in order to maximize the performance of the 789? I understand the amp is not a true balanced topology.
> 2. Does the Balanced headphone jack engage the full power and resolution of the amp without the XLR interconnects?


1. No.
2. Yes.
You can connect your DAC via SE and you headphones via balanced and get full benefits of the amp.


----------



## geoffalter11

Thank you. In speaking with Alvin from Vinshine he says my DACs dynamic range will increase by using XLR interconnects. So, I am gonna give it a shot. I appreciate you answering my questions. Great to know RCAs will due.


----------



## bequietjk

I honestly believe the THX 789 needs a VERY good power supply to bring out the true nature of it.  Or just a mains supply that delivers superb power.  Of course I cannot set my answer in stone, but until I have both the stock smps power supply and either sbooster or some other grand power supply on hand, I will declare that I have not truly heard what it is capable of.  Plus, I still need to get a DAC with solid XLR output.


----------



## geoffalter11

Speaking of power supplies, does anyone have any experience hooking up the 789 to a different external power supply?  Like the SGC 7V Linear Power Supply (15W) that is sold with the Sonore Microrendu?  Curious whether the 789 even needs it... They also carry a 12V (50W) linear power supply.  I could be completely overthinking this whole thing.

Thoughts?


----------



## bequietjk

At this moment im powering mine with a teradak dc-30 LPS.  What i like about this LPS is the adjustable voltage.  I actually stumbled on learning this amp could deliver 24V by accident.  Ive adjusted it down to 5V but up to 24V was surprising.  

Imo there is more definition and impact on lower frequencies but i cant be too sure on what exactly is happening.  I just prefer it over the stock smps, simply.


----------



## lgcubana

alpovs said:


> I don't see how it can further be improved.


Drop just lowered the price by $50, to $350
Price goes back up 1.1.2020
Once you click on "Buy" it will be added to your cart; where you'll see the $50 discount


----------



## cor0086

lgcubana said:


> Drop just lowered the price by $50, to $350
> Price goes back up 1.1.2020
> Once you click on "Buy" it will be added to your cart; where you'll see the $50 discount



is there a trick to doing this? I clicked buy and saw no discount.


----------



## geoffalter11

bequietjk said:


> At this moment im powering mine with a teradak dc-30 LPS.  What i like about this LPS is the adjustable voltage.  I actually stumbled on learning this amp could deliver 24V by accident.  Ive adjusted it down to 5V but up to 24V was surprising.
> 
> Imo there is more definition and impact on lower frequencies but i cant be too sure on what exactly is happening.  I just prefer it over the stock smps, simply.


Looks great together.  I am looking at the 24V, 2.1mm LPS from Teddy Pardo.  However, it is basically the same price as the amp.  For a few more % of dynamic range I am not sure it is worth it.  I will check out the Teradak.  Appreciate the heads up.


----------



## bequietjk

@geoffalter11 Just a heads up, there are a few Teradaks out there and with different PCBs.

This is the exact one I bought that I'm using with my 789.  To my knowledge this red is the latest model.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-DC...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This is the very first one I ordered, but the picture displayed with the RED PCB is not the one I got.  Instead I got one with a yellow PCB and has 6 tall capacitors.  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/hot-sale-T...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I replaced the capacitors in both of the Teradaks.  Anyway, I think it's important to contact the ebay seller to know the model you're getting, and to the best of my knowledge it would be good to get the one with the red PCB and 4 capacitors.


----------



## PopZeus

Ooh, $350 for a headphone amp that was going for double on the aftermarket? Good deal...


----------



## bequietjk

Oh yeah.  Great time to buy the 789 brand new.


----------



## geoffalter11

cor0086 said:


> is there a trick to doing this? I clicked buy and saw no discount.


Shoul've


bequietjk said:


> @geoffalter11 Just a heads up, there are a few Teradaks out there and with different PCBs.
> 
> This is the exact one I bought that I'm using with my 789.  To my knowledge this red is the latest model.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-DC-30W-TOUCH-DC12V-2A-Hi-Fi-For-Audio-Linear-Power-Supply/132944572377?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I will look into on Ebay and contact the seller.


----------



## alpovs

cor0086 said:


> is there a trick to doing this? I clicked buy and saw no discount.


I do see this discount. Maybe it's country-specific?


----------



## alpovs

alpovs said:


> I don't see how it can further be improved.





lgcubana said:


> Drop just lowered the price by $50, to $350
> Price goes back up 1.1.2020
> Once you click on "Buy" it will be added to your cart; where you'll see the $50 discount


That is definitely an improvement!


----------



## hakka

alpovs said:


> I do see this discount. Maybe it's country-specific?



I have a new account that hasn’t purchased anything (new members get $20 off), i don’t see the discount. If i log into my other account that isn’t eligible for the $20 discount i do see the $50 off.


----------



## newtophones07

bequietjk said:


> @geoffalter11 Just a heads up, there are a few Teradaks out there and with different PCBs.
> 
> This is the exact one I bought that I'm using with my 789.  To my knowledge this red is the latest model.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-DC-30W-TOUCH-DC12V-2A-Hi-Fi-For-Audio-Linear-Power-Supply/132944572377?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> ...




Out of curiosity what power cord did you use to connect the LPS to the rear of the THX amp?  Also how did you "dial up" a 12V LPS to 24V?  Wouldn't it be safer to purchase the TeraDak DC-200W, that is spec'd at 24V, albeit quite a bit more expensive of course.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

hakka said:


> I have a new account that hasn’t purchased anything (new members get $20 off), i don’t see the discount. If i log into my other account that isn’t eligible for the $20 discount i do see the $50 off.



I had the same question. If you read the fine print it appears to be 20 off Drop Studio items rather than anything on drop.


----------



## adamos (Dec 31, 2019)

cor0086 said:


> is there a trick to doing this? I clicked buy and saw no discount.



I got an email from Drop about this; the reduced price is a special offer for “new HD 6XX owners only.” I’m not sure what constitutes a new owner but I purchased the HD 6XX from them in late December 2018 so it was within the last year.


----------



## chennaxin95

Was this part of their thanksgiving deal for the 6xx?


----------



## adamos

chennaxin95 said:


> Was this part of their thanksgiving deal for the 6xx?



I don’t think so - I got the Drop email on 12/27 and it said the offer was good until 12/31.


----------



## oqvist

How are you guys liking the balanced output. I tried it with my Kennerton Magni today. I don´t believe it need the extra power at all but I must say it sounds quite a bit better through the phono output at same db. I put an adapter on my balanced cable and it started to sound as good as my hifiman ananda cable. 

Will investigate my hd 800S a bit further. I have kind of only run it balanced and been quite happy


----------



## geoffalter11

oqvist said:


> How are you guys liking the balanced output. I tried it with my Kennerton Magni today. I don´t believe it need the extra power at all but I must say it sounds quite a bit better through the phono output at same db. I put an adapter on my balanced cable and it started to sound as good as my hifiman ananda cable.
> 
> Will investigate my hd 800S a bit further. I have kind of only run it balanced and been quite happy


I am finding the balanced connection to be more dynamic. My DAC is sounding better and my headphones are sounding a bit more controlled. The biggest benefit with my headphones has been with my Quad ERA-1. They really like power. I was on Gain 3 at 12 SE and now Gain 2 at 11. In addition, bass has more solidity and soundstage depth has improved. Not sure my Elegia's have changed much. If anything a bit more air in the treble. It was worth the cable investment. Next upgrade will be to the power supply. In between a Teddy Pardo and the Teradak mentioned above.


----------



## oqvist

Sadly I don´t get that. I am trying the Hifiman Ananda which is another efficient headphone and while it´s very very close I be damned if it don´t sound better through the 6.5 jack despite my believe balanced should be better even when not needing the extra power. 
My Audeze LCD-2 surely liked it. Will see how my HD 800S does though my balanced cable is already a bad purchase as ananda and Magni is the headphones it fits.


----------



## geoffalter11

oqvist said:


> Sadly I don´t get that. I am trying the Hifiman Ananda which is another efficient headphone and while it´s very very close I be damned if it don´t sound better through the 6.5 jack despite my believe balanced should be better even when not needing the extra power.
> My Audeze LCD-2 surely liked it. Will see how my HD 800S does though my balanced cable is already a bad purchase as ananda and Magni is the headphones it fits.


I am sorry to hear you aren't finding much if any difference balanced. Without a doubt, the changes are pretty subtle. For me the biggest change was in my DAC as I have never had the opportunity to run it balanced. The additional power of using the headphone balanced is mostly just that. More power. My Quad likes the power, my other headphones sound the same. However, the improved dynamic range with my DAC has made me super happy.


----------



## billyleungkt

Hi guys, 

Do u think it's worth to upgrade the power cable? Since its figure 8 and external power brick. Can tell the sonic difference?

Cheers, 
Billy


----------



## oqvist

Not a believer in this case


----------



## Vvnz100

billyleungkt said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Do u think it's worth to upgrade the power cable? Since its figure 8 and external power brick. Can tell the sonic difference?
> 
> ...



Probably not! Keep your money for the music !


----------



## billyleungkt

Vvnz100 said:


> Probably not! Keep your money for the music !


Thanks Guys.  I'm in the honey moon phase of my rig. I'm wondering changing cables for my DAC and AMP. I'm getting a Sommer Albedo MKII balanced XLR cable to test out soon.


----------



## geoffalter11

I have never upgraded a power cable but have looked at different linear power supplies for the 789.  The THX folks don't seem to believe that a different power supply is needed.  I did speak with Teddy Pardo Audio and they recommended a LPS that they believe would improve it.  I haven't pulled the trigger as the Teddy Pardo LPS is essentially the same cost as the amp.  There are cheaper options, but not sure if they will help.


----------



## oqvist

geoffalter11 said:


> I have never upgraded a power cable but have looked at different linear power supplies for the 789.  The THX folks don't seem to believe that a different power supply is needed.  I did speak with Teddy Pardo Audio and they recommended a LPS that they believe would improve it.  I haven't pulled the trigger as the Teddy Pardo LPS is essentially the same cost as the amp.  There are cheaper options, but not sure if they will help.


Teddy Pardo audio gives unbiased advice not trying to sell their products?


----------



## geoffalter11

oqvist said:


> Teddy Pardo audio gives unbiased advice not trying to sell their products?


I assume it to be completely biased.  I treat it the same as everything else.  Subjective and ultimately up to the individual.  I started looking for a LPS and have since stopped as I am happy with how my system is sounding.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Could someone please tell me if I can use the 1/4 single ended output on the 789 if I have a balanced dac feeding the 789 using xlr cables?


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Could someone please tell me if I can use the 1/4 single ended output on the 789 if I have a balanced dac feeding the 789 using xlr cables?


Yes you can. No issues whatsoever.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> Yes you can. No issues whatsoever.



Thanks a lot. I just bought a pair of AEON 2 CB last week and the 789 (which hasn't arrived yet) to use at my office, and I remember having read somewhere that if balanced interconnects were used between the 789 and dac, the signal output via the 789 would be exclusive to the xlr connection only. I ordered the AEON 2 with a single ended cable because I wasn't sure what amp I was going to get for it. I was looking into the Atom, but decided to go all they way to 789. To buy another cable from Dan Clark Audio for the headphones would cost USD100, which is a no go for me now.

I'll be feeding the 789 initially directly from the iMac 27' 2019 I have in the office, so hopefully there won't be noise until I can save my pennies for something better.


----------



## PaganDL

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Could someone please tell me if I can use the 1/4 single ended output on the 789 if I have a balanced dac feeding the 789 using xlr cables?




@HumdrumPenguin,

Yes, there is no issue with using any of the outputs with balanced or unbalanced inputs, just press the input switch on the bottom right, next to the volume knob to choose which input is required.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Thanks a lot. I just bought a pair of AEON 2 CB last week and the 789 (which hasn't arrived yet) to use at my office, and I remember having read somewhere that if balanced interconnects were used between the 789 and dac, the signal output via the 789 would be exclusive to the xlr connection only. I ordered the AEON 2 with a single ended cable because I wasn't sure what amp I was going to get for it. I was looking into the Atom, but decided to go all they way to 789. To buy another cable from Dan Clark Audio for the headphones would cost USD100, which is a no go for me now.
> 
> I'll be feeding the 789 initially directly from the iMac 27' 2019 I have in the office, so hopefully there won't be noise until I can save my pennies for something better.


I don't know what the noise will be like going straight from your computer, but you won't have any issue running the amp SE.  I am running my DAC balanced into the 789 and use both the XLR and 1/4" depending on the headphone.  The biggest difference is the amount of power, but sound wise it will still sound good.  Let us know how the 789 sounds direct from your computer.  Hope you like it!  The 789 has crazy low distortion, so hopefully noise won't be an issue.


----------



## Sonic Defender

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Thanks a lot. I just bought a pair of AEON 2 CB last week and the 789 (which hasn't arrived yet) to use at my office, and I remember having read somewhere that if balanced interconnects were used between the 789 and dac, the signal output via the 789 would be exclusive to the xlr connection only. I ordered the AEON 2 with a single ended cable because I wasn't sure what amp I was going to get for it. I was looking into the Atom, but decided to go all they way to 789. To buy another cable from Dan Clark Audio for the headphones would cost USD100, which is a no go for me now.
> 
> I'll be feeding the 789 initially directly from the iMac 27' 2019 I have in the office, so hopefully there won't be noise until I can save my pennies for something better.


There are many affordable and amazing sounding DACs out there. You could for instance at around $200 pick up the SMSL SU-8 which I use and it has a well done balanced output so you could feed your amp with a somewhat improved output. I have had a few decent DACs over the years but I have learned that the point of diminishing returns with expensive DACs, IMO, are very quickly passed. I will say that I prefer the slightly warmer sound signature that typically comes with AKM chip implementations (certainly in recent years) but if mining all of the information out of a signal is important to you and you aren't partial to a little warmer sound, then the SMSL SU-8 DAC is fantastic. It measures extremely well objectively and there are many reviews and sound impressions available so don't think that you can't grab an amazing DAC for a great price. I think I paid about $290 Canadian for the SU-8 less than a year ago and that was money well spent, even with my preference for a little warmth. Lots of other great and reasonably priced DACs so don't let the feeling that you need to spend many hundreds stop you from improving on the 2019. I suspect the DAC output from your iMac is actually decent. Not sure what measurements would say, but based on what I have read, generally speaking Macs punch above their weight in sound quality. Enjoy the fun of watching your system change.


----------



## PaganDL

@HumdrumPenguin,

Forgot to mention, if you're worried about potential noise which there shouldn't be much of in the first pace, I suggest looking into the Drawmer MC 2.1 as that can help 'preamp' both balanced & single connections as well as reduce the noise floor when necessary, not to mention you can hook up any speaker monitors with XLR imput if required too.
As an aside, Power from either single or balanced with any head amp will also depend on how much source signal it will receive from source so basically the more volume you have from source will help determine where the marker on the dial on the 789 needs to be so obviously on the head amp side, as low as possible is better.
Current will also help the A2CB as well no end.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sonic Defender said:


> There are many affordable and amazing sounding DACs out there. You could for instance at around $200 pick up the SMSL SU-8 which I use and it has a well done balanced output so you could feed your amp with a somewhat improved output. I have had a few decent DACs over the years but I have learned that the point of diminishing returns with expensive DACs, IMO, are very quickly passed. I will say that I prefer the slightly warmer sound signature that typically comes with AKM chip implementations (certainly in recent years) but if mining all of the information out of a signal is important to you and you aren't partial to a little warmer sound, then the SMSL SU-8 DAC is fantastic. It measures extremely well objectively and there are many reviews and sound impressions available so don't think that you can't grab an amazing DAC for a great price. I think I paid about $290 Canadian for the SU-8 less than a year ago and that was money well spent, even with my preference for a little warmth. Lots of other great and reasonably priced DACs so don't let the feeling that you need to spend many hundreds stop you from improving on the 2019. I suspect the DAC output from your iMac is actually decent. Not sure what measurements would say, but based on what I have read, generally speaking Macs punch above their weight in sound quality. Enjoy the fun of watching your system change.



Thanks for the suggestions. I'm very aware of the budget to mid-fi dac options, and by what you say, my sound preferences are similar to yours. I'm leaning towards a model based on the AKM chipsets because of the slight warmth they introduce. Many of the  SABRE based dacs contain the "hump" on the signal, including the SU8 V2 you've mentioned, but I don't know if that's an audible thing or not. Currently I'm leaning towards the Drop SDAC Balanced (whenever they drop) or SMSL M300. If I hadn't spent quite a lot already on headphones + THX 789 + holidays trip to NY and Washington this last 2 or 3 weeks, I would even consider the Topping D90 for all the bells and whistles it provides. I wanna see how my setup will play straight from the iMac first to only then decide how fast (or not) I should jump into a dedicated dac.


----------



## Sonic Defender

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I'm very aware of the budget to mid-fi dac options, and by what you say, my sound preferences are similar to yours. I'm leaning towards a model based on the AKM chipsets because of the slight warmth they introduce. Many of the  SABRE based dacs contain the "hump" on the signal, including the SU8 V2 you've mentioned, but I don't know if that's an audible thing or not. Currently I'm leaning towards the Drop SDAC Balanced (whenever they drop) or SMSL M300. If I hadn't spent quite a lot already on headphones + THX 789 + holidays trip to NY and Washington this last 2 or 3 weeks, I would even consider the Topping D90 for all the bells and whistles it provides. I wanna see how my setup will play straight from the iMac first to only then decide how fast (or not) I should jump into a dedicated dac.


Yah, the Topping D90 sounds like it is going to really bring it. Yes I completely agree, and I do feel there is this difficult to define or describe digital glare/artifacts or whatever with Sabre chips. I would say it is audible, but many people would actually prefer the signature and for them it would be a plus. I knowingly added the SU-8 because my NAD M3 already has a sweetness and my speakers (KEF R300s supported by two little REL TZero subs) are also slightly warm. So my thinking was that little digital sharpness would be welcome, and I think with my speakers it is, but with headphones I find I get fatigued from listening a little sooner. That is just me, and to be clear, it isn't that the signature of the SU-8 is problematic or bright, but if you compare to a typical AKM Velvet Sound series implementation, such as FiiO has become crazy good at, if you're like me you will by way of comparison find the Sabre fatiguing to one extent or another.


----------



## geoffalter11

Sonic Defender said:


> Yah, the Topping D90 sounds like it is going to really bring it. Yes I completely agree, and I do feel there is this difficult to define or describe digital glare/artifacts or whatever with Sabre chips. I would say it is audible, but many people would actually prefer the signature and for them it would be a plus. I knowingly added the SU-8 because my NAD M3 already has a sweetness and my speakers (KEF R300s supported by two little REL TZero subs) are also slightly warm. So my thinking was that little digital sharpness would be welcome, and I think with my speakers it is, but with headphones I find I get fatigued from listening a little sooner. That is just me, and to be clear, it isn't that the signature of the SU-8 is problematic or bright, but if you compare to a typical AKM Velvet Sound series implementation, such as FiiO has become crazy good at, if you're like me you will by way of comparison find the Sabre fatiguing to one extent or another.


Another option would be the Metrum Flint. You could find one used for under $400. The NOS sound is quite enticing and extremely smooth.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jan 11, 2020)

geoffalter11 said:


> Another option would be the Metrum Flint. You could find one used for under $400. The NOS sound is quite enticing and extremely smooth.


That would be going too far on the smoothness scale for me, but quite musical I'm sure. Cheers.


----------



## jbarrentine

Just go Chord and get it over with. Stop futzing with lower end stuff.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

jbarrentine said:


> Just go Chord and get it over with. Stop futzing with lower end stuff.



I took a look at the options with balanced outputs... and the prices are, let's put it this way, out of my pocket's chart. The unbalanced ones are also expensive, and not having XLR detracts the value of the product in my opinion. I have a belief that a dac should sound transparent, without coloration (or not much to it), and provide all the ports you may need, while having a decent build quality. If I can get that at a much more affordable price, then why not? I understand people that would rather go for the very fancy and exquisite stuff, but that's not me at the moment (not on the audio department). I think either the D70 or D90 from Topping would be the best contenders, but I'm not putting them on my desk until later this year, when something at a similar price point that is better may even be out by the time I want to grab one.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> Another option would be the Metrum Flint. You could find one used for under $400. The NOS sound is quite enticing and extremely smooth.



Right now I'm playing the AEON 2 from an Asgard 3 with the AK4490 module in it. This sounds like a very lush and smooth experience to me, so now I want a combo that will separate layers better, while not getting sharp highs. Maybe The Metrum wouldn't do super well in that department. 

I'm so glad that I can use balanced interconnects between amp and dac with the 789 (the most important by far as I understand) and get SE output. It gives me more headroom for a balanced dac since I don't have to spend another USD100 just to get the balanced cable with the hirose connectors the AEON uses.


----------



## geoffalter11

geoffalter11 said:


> Yes you can. No issues whatsoever.


Since


HumdrumPenguin said:


> Right now I'm playing the AEON 2 from an Asgard 3 with the AK4490 module in it. This sounds like a very lush and smooth experience to me, so now I want a combo that will separate layers better, while not getting sharp highs. Maybe The Metrum wouldn't do super well in that department.
> 
> I'm so glad that I can use balanced interconnects between amp and dac with the 789 (the most important by far as I understand) and get SE output. It gives me more headroom for a balanced dac since I don't have to spend another USD100 just to get the balanced cable with the hirose connectors the AEON uses.


The Metrum DACs have no issues with separation and layering of sounds and instruments. There wasn't a single sharp note when I owned my Metrum. It was extremely capable at reproducing all manner of music in a balanced and toe tapping way. The 789 isn't a true balanced amp. You don't need to use balanced interconnects in order to utilize the balanced output. The only benefit to using the XLR interconnects will be if your DAC operates more efficiently balanced. In my experience I have gotten incredible performance from single ended DACs. The only reason I am running my current DAC balanced is that I happen to get a bit more dynamic range because it is meant to run balanced. However, I have run my 789 both ways and have seen zero difference in how the amp performs. What I love about the 789 is how clean and distortion free it sounds. I can tell differences in the DAC hooked up to it. But, YMMV. Ultimately, you should buy the best DAC for your needs based on your sonic preferences and budget. Whether or not the DAC is SE or balanced is so subjective. The best sounding amp and DAC combo I have ever owned was a SE set up. Neither the amp or DAC accepted XLR and  it sounded amazing. There is a lot of opinion out there about which topology is best. If you find what's best for you you can't wrong either way. And you will still be able to utilize the balanced output of the 789 regardless. Kinda cool... Enjoy your 789 and good luck creating a system you love.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> Since
> 
> The Metrum DACs have no issues with separation and layering of sounds and instruments. There wasn't a single sharp note when I owned my Metrum. It was extremely capable at reproducing all manner of music in a balanced and toe tapping way. The 789 isn't a true balanced amp. You don't need to use balanced interconnects in order to utilize the balanced output. The only benefit to using the XLR interconnects will be if your DAC operates more efficiently balanced. In my experience I have gotten incredible performance from single ended DACs. The only reason I am running my current DAC balanced is that I happen to get a bit more dynamic range because it is meant to run balanced. However, I have run my 789 both ways and have seen zero difference in how the amp performs. What I love about the 789 is how clean and distortion free it sounds. I can tell differences in the DAC hooked up to it. But, YMMV. Ultimately, you should buy the best DAC for your needs based on your sonic preferences and budget. Whether or not the DAC is SE or balanced is so subjective. The best sounding amp and DAC combo I have ever owned was a SE set up. Neither the amp or DAC accepted XLR and  it sounded amazing. There is a lot of opinion out there about which topology is best. If you find what's best for you you can't wrong either way. And you will still be able to utilize the balanced output of the 789 regardless. Kinda cool... Enjoy your 789 and good luck creating a system you love.



I can't post where I've read it because it's been a while, but as I remember the balanced interconnects are important to avoid ground loops. There can be voltage drops between amp and dac when connecting via RCA, although I would bet it can only be audible in a really bad case. A "real" balanced output from an amp should not alter the sound signal (aside from loudness), unless the manufacturer purposefully intended to do so. 

Note: This is all considering a home listening experience from your audio gear.


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I can't post where I've read it because it's been a while, but as I remember the balanced interconnects are important to avoid ground loops. There can be voltage drops between amp and dac when connecting via RCA, although I would bet it can only be audible in a really bad case. A "real" balanced output from an amp should not alter the sound signal (aside from loudness), unless the manufacturer purposefully intended to do so.
> 
> Note: This is all considering a home listening experience from your audio gear.


That could be. I would also suspect that it would only occur in extreme situations. Yes, volume should be the only benefit. I have found 3 of my 4 headphones sound exactly the same balanced and SE with the 789. The only difference being how much gain I need. However, my Quad ERA-1's have displayed a bit more bottom end control thru the balanced output. Not a huge difference, though.


----------



## bequietjk

I wonder what the best option(s) for LPS would be in the $400 range...

Going into this, I already knew I was going to want an LPS for the THX 789 so a sum of $800 for complete amplifier + LPS setup is not a surprise for me.


----------



## geoffalter11

bequietjk said:


> I wonder what the best option(s) for LPS would be in the $400 range...
> 
> Going into this, I already knew I was going to want an LPS for the THX 789 so a sum of $800 for complete amplifier + LPS setup is not a surprise for me.


I have limited experience with them, but the research I did led me to the Teddy Pardo LPS.  The Teddy24 - 24V 1A Power Supply.  $369.


----------



## bequietjk

@geoffalter11 That looks nice, too.  Do you happen to know what type of transformer it has?


----------



## bequietjk

Downside to the Teddy Pardo 24 is the 1A delivery where the 789 requires 1.8A  X_X


----------



## geoffalter11

I will look at their email and make sure that is the right one.


----------



## geoffalter11

bequietjk said:


> Downside to the Teddy Pardo 24 is the 1A delivery where the 789 requires 1.8A  X_X


That is the one they recommended. Can you explain what the 1a to 1.8a delivery means? I am not very savvy with this stuff.


----------



## Gavin C4

Coming fr Schiit Mjolnor 2, the THX789 is really a good amp. The vocals on 789 is presented in front of you with 2-3 row of distance. Where as from Schiit Mjolnir 2, the vocals is inside your head. Both amps serves me well. Really solid gear.


----------



## oqvist (Jan 12, 2020)

geoffalter11 said:


> That is the one they recommended. Can you explain what the 1a to 1.8a delivery means? I am not very savvy with this stuff.


Do they have a return policy? You are dropping money for zero benefit I believe. The Thx has a lot of power regulation built in I believe?


----------



## geoffalter11

oqvist said:


> Do they have a return policy? You are dropping money for zero benefit I believe. The Thx has a lot of power regulation built in I believe?


I am not buying a LPS. I have no idea what their return policy is.  I thought I was clear that I looked into it but didn't do it as I am happy with how it sounds. I was just answering the question of a LPS at that price point. I have no idea if it will help, although I am curious if it will.  When I bought my 789 I read about folks buying them and hearing a difference. I also read folks saying the power supply was not needed. So I started researching them out of curiosity.  What I did learn from Teddy Pardo was their research about LPS and how and why they affect sound. They never told me it would definitely help the 789, only how they believe LPS helps in a general sense. I appreciate your concern. Honestly, it is great to hear your opinions.  If others have different experiences and genuinely feel it helps, I want to hear those opinions too. I love to learn all sides and then make my own decision.


----------



## bequietjk

@geoffalter11 The A is just representing the amount of amp(s) required for the THX 789.  The 1.8A requirement means it can use up to 1.8 amps, and the Teddy Pardo is able to supply up to 1 amp.  Amps are a unit of electrical current.


----------



## bequietjk

It is possible that 1A will be fine, though.


----------



## savaloco

@geoffalter11  Ultimately that particular PS is under powered and you need one that can provide at least 1.8A (more is OK less is not).

Cheers


----------



## bequietjk

The sbooster 24v will deliver 1.1A which gets closer to the goal but still falls short.


----------



## geoffalter11

bequietjk said:


> It is possible that 1A will be fine, though.


Sounds like you will need a different LPS.


----------



## bequietjk

I emailed TeraDak to see if they offer a fixed 24v model.  Hopefully get a response soon ^_^


----------



## kelvinwsy

Use this with peak current 2.9 amp at 24vUch sweeter and full sound


----------



## kelvinwsy




----------



## kelvinwsy

Choose at least 70 watt transformer model


----------



## bequietjk (Jan 13, 2020)

Teradak emailed me back and said that it would be a custom 24v LPS for $119,

I asked if it would be like this.https://www.teradak.com/products/97.html
Large case and toroidal transformer and they said yes.

Rated for 2A.


----------



## kelvinwsy




----------



## HumdrumPenguin (Jan 15, 2020)

I received the 789 on Monday and have been listening to my AEON 2 CB through it since then, using the 1/4 jack. It's connected directly to the iMac 2019 I use at the office, so it's using the mac's internal DAC. I can't hear distortion, hum, or background noise AT ALL, even if I put the gain at the third mark, volume pot at max, and have no music playing (which I can't say the same for my Asgard 3). Now here's the question, will an external DAC make any difference? I'm not thinking of the features it may have to offer, such as DSD, MQA, filters, remote control, etc. If the answer is no, the sound will be the same, then I'll save money to buy a full feature standalone DAC a few months from now (SMSL SU-8S / 9 when it releases, for instance).

If there are improvements to be heard still, I'd now get a Topping D10 or D50s, or SMSL M100 / M300 and settle on it for a while.

Also, since the output is not balanced on the 789, would I benefit at all from connecting my cans via balanced XLR cables aside from higher volume?


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I received the 789 on Monday and have been listening to my AEON 2 CB through it since then, using the 1/4 jack. It's connected directly to the iMac 2019 I use at the office, so it's using the mac's internal DAC. I can't hear distortion, hum, or background noise AT ALL, even if I put the gain at the third mark, volume pot at max, and have no music playing (which I can't say the same for my Asgard 3). Now here's the question, will an external DAC make any difference? I'm not thinking of the features it may have to offer, such as DSD, MQA, filters, remote control, etc. If the answer is no, the sound will be the same, then I'll save money to buy a full feature standalone DAC a few months from now (SMSL SU-8S / 9 when it releases, for instance).
> 
> If there are improvements to be heard still, I'd now get a Topping D10 or D50s, or SMSL M100 / M300 and settle on it for a while.
> 
> Also, since the output is not balanced on the 789, would I benefit at all from connecting my cans via balanced XLR cables aside from higher volume?


Short answer,  Yes! DAC will make a difference. However, when you do it should based on what you want. I personally feel you should buy the best you can afford at the time you are ready. If you are satisfied for now, wait and get what you want when you can. But, yes I believe an external DAC will greatly improve your system. Whether you go with a delta sigma or an R2R depends on what your sonic preferences are. I like the R2R sound, especially with my 789 as it is such a clean amp. I like the added warmth and smoothness of provides while still extracting plenty of detail. To me there is no wrong DAC.


----------



## Voxata

geoffalter11 said:


> Short answer,  Yes! DAC will make a difference. However, when you do it should based on what you want. I personally feel you should buy the best you can afford at the time you are ready. If you are satisfied for now, wait and get what you want when you can. But, yes I believe an external DAC will greatly improve your system. Whether you go with a delta sigma or an R2R depends on what your sonic preferences are. I like the R2R sound, especially with my 789 as it is such a clean amp. I like the added warmth and smoothness of provides while still extracting plenty of detail. To me there is no wrong DAC.


I've heard a couple rough ones in my day. I don't see many people liking some of the old soundblaster cards, those were terrible. Then again you are right.. somebody liked it enough to make and sell the thing.


----------



## geoffalter11

Voxata said:


> I've heard a couple rough ones in my day. I don't see many people liking some of the old soundblaster cards, those were terrible. Then again you are right.. somebody liked it enough to make and sell the thing.


Haha... so correct. I find the DAC I use to be a huge part of the chain. Most DACs today in that $200-$300 range will get you something way better than a MACs internal DAC. I use an iMac running Roon and don't love the internal DAC.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> Haha... so correct. I find the DAC I use to be a huge part of the chain. Most DACs today in that $200-$300 range will get you something way better than a MACs internal DAC. I use an iMac running Roon and don't love the internal DAC.



Would you mind recommending a few on that price range? Ideally balanced if the price allows.


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Would you mind recommending a few on that price range? Ideally balanced if the price allows.


Yes. Most of my experience has been with DACs in the $1000-$1500 range.  But, I would consider the following.

1. ifi Zen
2. SMSL SU-8
3. Geshelli Labs Products
4. Schiit Modi Multi Bit - don't think it comes balanced
5. Airist R2R DAC - not sure if balanced. But a great DAC for the price. You'd need to find a used one.


----------



## tim0chan

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I received the 789 on Monday and have been listening to my AEON 2 CB through it since then, using the 1/4 jack. It's connected directly to the iMac 2019 I use at the office, so it's using the mac's internal DAC. I can't hear distortion, hum, or background noise AT ALL, even if I put the gain at the third mark, volume pot at max, and have no music playing (which I can't say the same for my Asgard 3). Now here's the question, will an external DAC make any difference? I'm not thinking of the features it may have to offer, such as DSD, MQA, filters, remote control, etc. If the answer is no, the sound will be the same, then I'll save money to buy a full feature standalone DAC a few months from now (SMSL SU-8S / 9 when it releases, for instance).
> 
> If there are improvements to be heard still, I'd now get a Topping D10 or D50s, or SMSL M100 / M300 and settle on it for a while.
> 
> Also, since the output is not balanced on the 789, would I benefit at all from connecting my cans via balanced XLR cables aside from higher volume?


Get the d50s first, then save for something better, I recommend the rme adi2 DAC. Balanced input does not matter with short runs of cable unless you have a ground loop. In fact, the engineers of the amp recommend RCA unless you need the noise rejection of XLR (noise loop, EMI etc). Plugging your headphones into the balanced jack in the front is a whole different thing though, way more power for you cans is always a good thing


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Thanks, I'll already have looked at all of them. The Geshelli would be great if it worked via usb. The mac doesn't have digital out. The RME ADI 2 DAC looks great, but totally out of my budget, unless I find a used one in good conditions for a good price. So dard to decide...


----------



## geoffalter11

tim0chan said:


> Get the d50s first, then save for something better, I recommend the rme adi2 DAC. Balanced input does not matter with short runs of cable unless you have a ground loop. In fact, the engineers of the amp recommend RCA unless you need the noise rejection of XLR (noise loop, EMI etc). Plugging your headphones into the balanced jack in the front is a whole different thing though, way more power for you cans is always a good thing


RME is an R2R. It is insanely good. If you want that type get a Metrum Flint.


----------



## tim0chan

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Thanks, I'll already have looked at all of them. The Geshelli would be great if it worked via usb. The mac doesn't have digital out. The RME ADI 2 DAC looks great, but totally out of my budget, unless I find a used one in good conditions for a good price. So dard to decide...


D50s. Affordable, measures well, sounds good too.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> RME is an R2R. It is insanely good. If you want that type get a Metrum Flint.



Doesn't have usb. I need it.


----------



## Voxata

I think RME ADI2 uses an off the shelf DAC part like 4490 and recently upgraded since that part is end of life.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Voxata said:


> I think RME ADI2 uses an off the shelf DAC part like 4490 and recently upgraded since that part is end of life.



According to their website they now use the AK4493.


----------



## adeadcrab

geoffalter11 said:


> RME is an R2R. It is insanely good. If you want that type get a Metrum Flint.


edit: above beat me to it. ^

I don't think it's R2R, it uses an AKM DAC chip, per their site - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html
"...The updated ADI-2 DAC uses AKM's AK4493 in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best."

However I've heard they have one of, if not the best implementations of a delta-sigma DAC chip.


----------



## geoffalter11

Thanks for correcting me. Some reason I thought it was an R2R. It is a great DAC. Another option would be a used Chord 2Qute. They go for $750 or so and use USB.


----------



## Sonic Defender

adeadcrab said:


> edit: above beat me to it. ^
> 
> I don't think it's R2R, it uses an AKM DAC chip, per their site - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html
> "...The updated ADI-2 DAC uses AKM's AK4493 in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best."
> ...


Too bad that they do not have a solid Bluetooth input section, that is an absolute must. I will guarantee you that in 3 years time, nobody on even the highest end gear will not include Bluetooth as an input.


----------



## newabc (Jan 16, 2020)

There are some bluetooth to SPDIF coaxial interface in ebay. You can search "CSR8675" (It is the primary chip's name) in ebay.
For example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CSR8675-Bl...tal-interface-ATPX-HD-with-shell/273421295339
This one may not the one I am using, but it looks like the one I am using.

It receives bluetooth signal and outputs SPDIF signal to your DAC through RCA coaxial interface or optical interface. It can be powered by 5V DC through micro-usb cable connected to a cell phone charger.


----------



## Sonic Defender

newabc said:


> There are some bluetooth to SPDIF coaxial interface in ebay. You can search "CSR8675" (It is the primary chip's name) in ebay.
> For example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CSR8675-Bl...tal-interface-ATPX-HD-with-shell/273421295339
> This one may not the one I am using, but it looks like the one I am using.
> 
> It receives bluetooth signal and outputs SPDIF signal to your DAC through RCA coaxial interface or optical interface. It can be powered by 5V DC through micro-usb cable connected to a cell phone charger.


Absolutely, but I prefer to just have it all built into the same device. Assuming that you were responding to my post. Cheers.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> Yes. Most of my experience has been with DACs in the $1000-$1500 range.  But, I would consider the following.
> 
> 1. ifi Zen
> 2. SMSL SU-8
> ...



In the end I decided to go with the SMSL M100 that Zeos praised on his channel, and he was listening to it also via the THX 789. It costed me 105,00 Canadian golden coins, and I added to the cart 2 usb micro to usb a cords from Anker for the power and data transfer. I went with one of the cheapest options just to give me a small boost for now. No filters, nor any other bs of any kind, just a straight up converter. I'll save a couple months and get myself the Denafrips Ares II and be done with it. I'm pretty sure on this. I have also talked to the seller and he said that the lead time is about 8 weeks to ship if I place an order now, so I'd have to wait even if money wasn't a problem.


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> In the end I decided to go with the SMSL M100 that Zeos praised on his channel, and he was listening to it also via the THX 789. It costed me 105,00 Canadian golden coins, and I added to the cart 2 usb micro to usb a cords from Anker for the power and data transfer. I went with one of the cheapest options just to give me a small boost for now. No filters, nor any other bs of any kind, just a straight up converter. I'll save a couple months and get myself the Denafrips Ares II and be done with it. I'm pretty sure on this. I have also talked to the seller and he said that the lead time is about 8 weeks to ship if I place an order now, so I'd have to wait even if money wasn't a problem.


The Denafrips will be awesome. My Vinshine is made by Alvin as well. Kind of like the Pontus or Venus. Love it! Denafrips makes amazing DACs. Enjoy the SMSL until the Ares II arrives. I just received my new Pathos Aurium. The 789 is gonna take a back seat while I get to know this amazing amp.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> The Denafrips will be awesome. My Vinshine is made by Alvin as well. Kind of like the Pontus or Venus. Love it! Denafrips makes amazing DACs. Enjoy the SMSL until the Ares II arrives. I just received my new Pathos Aurium. The 789 is gonna take a back seat while I get to know this amazing amp.



The Aurium looks gorgeous. I assume the sound will be much fuller than the 789. What headphones are you using with it?


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> The Aurium looks gorgeous. I assume the sound will be much fuller than the 789. What headphones are you using with it?


It i


HumdrumPenguin said:


> The Aurium looks gorgeous. I assume the sound will be much fuller than the 789. What headphones are you using with it?


Sent you a PM so I don't take the thread off topic.


----------



## Currawong

Sonic Defender said:


> Too bad that they do not have a solid Bluetooth input section, that is an absolute must. I will guarantee you that in 3 years time, nobody on even the highest end gear will not include Bluetooth as an input.



Maybe, but in my testing you still clearly lose fidelity with any kind of Bluetooth transmission.


----------



## tim0chan

Currawong said:


> Maybe, but in my testing you still clearly lose fidelity with any kind of Bluetooth transmission.


Then again, Bluetooth is there for convenience, in my case, I use it while I am working as I can use my phone as a source instead of having to hook everything up with wires


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jan 18, 2020)

In my experience with Bluetooth, and I have been full in using it significantly for about 5 or so years now, if there is any noticeable drop in sound quality, for me it just isn't meaningful in terms of impact in real listening. I think like with any complex system architecture, the whole is the sum of the design, and well designed, well implemented Bluetooth can absolutely be audiophile calibre. Just a few minutes ago I was streaming from my phone to my Q5s and listening to a set of Grado GS3000e driven nicely from speaker taps to my NAD M3. Sounded pretty spectacular. The advantage of convenience is significant as compared with a theoretical very small loss in sound quality and I feel it is perfectly reasonable to expect Bluetooth as an input. It is now a minimum and should be as ubiquitous as say USB input.

Bluetooth is at that level, of that I have absolutely no doubt and I think the marketplace has spoken loud and clear. Bluetooth as a share of the audio world, particularly personal, high-end audio, is a massive beast of growth. The market spoke and companies have heard. I will guarantee anybody that in a few years time the idea of offering a DAC, or a DAC/amp without serious Bluetooth will seem like a ridiculous oversight.


----------



## alpovs

Do you realize that Bluetooth doesn't transmit analog sound? It converts it to digital, than back to analog on the other side by some crappy unknown DAC. So if you have some good multibit DAC but Bluetooth is last in the chain before the headphones you listen to the DAC in your Bluetooth implementation, not your multibit DAC that's first in the chain.


----------



## Sonic Defender

alpovs said:


> Do you realize that Bluetooth doesn't transmit analog sound? It converts it to digital, than back to analog on the other side by some crappy unknown DAC. So if you have some good multibit DAC but Bluetooth is last in the chain before the headphones you listen to the DAC in your Bluetooth implementation, not your multibit DAC that's first in the chain.


May I ask what direct experience with Bluetooth you have? I am talking about the ability to transmit Bluetooth to a DAC to handle the processing there, or yes, absolutely no problem with a well done Bluetooth decoding and conversion scenario. When my phone streams to my Bluetooth headphones the sound quality is top-notch, absolutely sounds fabulous, and I listen to very well mastered material with mountains of detail, timbre and nuance. I think that you can safely assume that nobody thinks that Bluetooth transmits analogue signals. Never in my life met somebody who thought that about Bluetooth.


----------



## alpovs

Sonic Defender said:


> May I ask what direct experience with Bluetooth you have? I am talking about the ability to transmit Bluetooth to a DAC to handle the processing there, or yes, absolutely no problem with a well done Bluetooth decoding and conversion scenario. When my phone streams to my Bluetooth headphones the sound quality is top-notch, absolutely sounds fabulous, and I listen to very well mastered material with mountains of detail, timbre and nuance. I think that you can safely assume that nobody thinks that Bluetooth transmits analogue signals. Never in my life met somebody who thought that about Bluetooth.


I was talking about cases like you described with your Bluetooth headphones. It's the DAC in your headphones you listen to. If you like it you are lucky.

But why would you want to send data stream to your DAC via Bluetooth when it can be done via WiFi or better wired? Bluetooth was designed for convenience and short range.


----------



## Sonic Defender

alpovs said:


> I was talking about cases like you described with your Bluetooth headphones. It's the DAC in your headphones you listen to. If you like it you are lucky.
> 
> But why would you want to send data stream to your DAC via Bluetooth when it can be done via WiFi or better wired? Bluetooth was designed for convenience and short range.


I don't agree, sorry mate, but it has nothing to do with being lucky, Bluetooth sounds fantastic, that isn't even up for debate, it is fact. I can never hear the difference wired versus well done Bluetooth. I'll put cold hard cash that in well controlled, blind listening, multiple trial tests you wouldn't hear the difference either.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin (Jan 19, 2020)

Sonic Defender said:


> I don't agree, sorry mate, but it has nothing to do with being lucky, Bluetooth sounds fantastic, that isn't even up for debate, it is fact. I can never hear the difference wired versus well done Bluetooth. I'll put cold hard cash that in well controlled, blind listening, multiple trial tests you wouldn't hear the difference either.



Maybe the difference can be heard only with the right gear and the right songs? I'm not saying you are wrong, on the contrary, but there may be more to it than we think. On a somewhat separate topic for instance, on a 2k setup, I can't hear for the life of me any difference between 320kbps and flac on any of the many songs I've tried. Weirdly enough, I can tell between 320/flac and Spotify Very High quality (they claim it's 320kbps, and that's what's strange for me).

PS.: I only consider differences that I can tell for sure, not what I think I might be hearing. That's placebo in my opinion.


----------



## Sonic Defender

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Maybe the difference can be heard only with the right gear and the right songs? I'm not saying you are wrong, on the contrary, but there may be more to it than we think. On a somewhat separate topic for instance, on a 2k setup, I can't hear for the life of me any difference between 320kbps and flac on any of the many songs I've tried. Weirdly enough, I can tell between 320/flac and Spotify Very High quality (they claim it's 320kbps, and that's what's strange for me).
> 
> PS.: I only consider differences that I can tell for sure, not what I think I might be hearing. That's placebo in my opinion.


I have read about people with excellent hearing who actually put a great deal of time and effort into training themselves to pick up really, really small differences that apparently lossy audio formats may cause in very specific ways. The fact that they train very hard and deliberately, and then concentrate in an effort to spot these reportedly very small sound quality differences tells me that for all intents and purposes there is no meaningful effect of high quality lossy encoding. People generally do not listen to music like that so these tiny differences really are meaningless in any actual listening situations. My belief is if you have to go to that much trouble to become a sonic flaw detective, probably not a lot of fun.

Could there be similar small effects with Bluetooth audio transmission? Quite likely, and there are issues of implementation to consider so I can accept that sometimes Bluetooth may not be perceived as exactly the same quality as wired or WiFi transmission of audio. Saying that, when Bluetooth is well implemented in well designed gear, personally I have experienced Bluetooth as sounding equal to any wired connection. I can get the Spotify thing, I can't say why, and maybe there is no reason and I am imagining it, but I can't help but feeling that it sounds off somehow? I wonder if there is DSP applied. Again, I can't say I have any evidence of the sound being different with Spotify, that is simply an impression and not based on any effort to be rigorous in my testing of my impression/assumptions.


----------



## Marutks

I bought this amplifier "Monolith by Monoprice THX AAA Balanced Headphone Amplifier featuring THX AAA 887".   https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39359

Is it similar to Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789?  Is it rebranded Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 ?


----------



## geoffalter11

Marutks said:


> I bought this amplifier "Monolith by Monoprice THX AAA Balanced Headphone Amplifier featuring THX AAA 887".   https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39359
> 
> Is it similar to Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789?  Is it rebranded Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 ?


Similar. Believe it has a touch more power.


----------



## Celty (Jan 19, 2020)

Marutks said:


> I bought this amplifier "Monolith by Monoprice THX AAA Balanced Headphone Amplifier featuring THX AAA 887".   https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39359
> 
> Is it similar to Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789?  Is it rebranded Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 ?


It is identical as far as topology, but definitely not a re-brand. Monoprice went through all the specific components, and upgraded many parts to achieve some better measurements, not huge but an improvement. The case design is also different, I prefer the 887. The warranty is also better on the 887.

A post by a Monoprice rep says, "Just an FYI, for the 887 we upgraded over 50 internal components to increase performance:

5 Opamps – same opamps as 888 to reduce noise

32 Resistors – Upgraded to reduce noise

12 Capacitors – Upgraded to reduce distortion"


----------



## geoffalter11

geoffalter11 said:


> Hi all... My wife just got me a 789 for the holidays.  A couple questions for those willing to help me out...
> 
> My current set up is a Vinshine Reference R2R DAC into a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2.  I use RCAs because the Gilmore is SE.  Therefore, I can only currently use the 789 SE.  I need to purchase XLR cables for interconnects and my headphones if needed.  Which leads to my 2 questions...
> 
> ...


Thank you to all for answering my questions.  789 is sounding great.  I also bought a Pathos Aurium.  Which has a tape out, so I am able to use my DAC balanced into my Aurium and then Tape Out into the 789 so I can utilize both amps concurrently.  I am finding that the 789 is a good amp.  the Aurium is in another league.  I am going to purchase a SBooster for the Aurium, so I will try it with the 789 as well.  Who knows...


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

A few days ago I asked if I could use the single ended output of the 789 if interconnects were balanced xlr between dac and amp. The answer was yes. Now what happens if it's the opposite. Will the xlr output work if my 789 and SMSL100 are connected via rca? I'm asking before I purchase a balanced xlr cable for my headphones for the extra output power.


----------



## geoffalter11

Yes it will work great. The amp is not fully balanced. You will still realize the amps full power output thru the XLR headphone out.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> Yes it will work great. The amp is not fully balanced. You will still realize the amps full power output thru the XLR headphone out.



Thanks. Great it will work out.


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Thanks. Great it will work out.


I was running my 789 balanced because my DACs dynamic range is slightly better balanced. The amp is the same either way. Some say the amp is better via RCA. Only way to know for yourself is to try both ways.


----------



## bequietjk

On an LPS for the THX 789, I just wanted to note that the 789 connected to my regulated linear bench power supply shows that it only draws 0.17amps.  Really odd considering the max input is 1.8amps on the 789.


----------



## alpovs

bequietjk said:


> On an LPS for the THX 789, I just wanted to note that the 789 connected to my regulated linear bench power supply shows that it only draws 0.17amps.  Really odd considering the max input is 1.8amps on the 789.


Why is it odd? 1.8 A is the max. If you drove the HE-6 with it maybe it would have been closer to 1.8 A.


----------



## bequietjk

@alpovs Ahh, ok.  So higher current drawing headphones will require that much?  Impressive.


----------



## jambaj0e (Aug 14, 2020)

Well, it's time to sell my 2 month old THX AAA 789! Got me a new amp upgrade for my Chord Hugo tt2 + Audeze LCD-3!

Hello Cayin HA-300


----------



## obzilla

I'd keep the 789 around for hot days you don't want to be in a room with a space heater like that, or in the eventuality that a tube burns out and you need a backup amp.


----------



## jambaj0e

obzilla said:


> I'd keep the 789 around for hot days you don't want to be in a room with a space heater like that, or in the eventuality that a tube burns out and you need a backup amp.



Nah, I'll take my chances and recuperate my cost


----------



## Vvnz100

I will join the club at the end of the week... comparison with a DAC/Amplifier Pioneer U-05S to drive Sennheiser HD6XX (Balanced), AKG K702, Fostex TH-X00 and Audeze LCD 2 Classic (Balanced)...


----------



## eeagle

Vvnz100 said:


> I will join the club at the end of the week... comparison with a DAC/Amplifier Pioneer U-05S to drive Sennheiser HD6XX (Balanced), AKG K702, Fostex TH-X00 and Audeze LCD 2 Classic (Balanced)...


You should especially enjoy it with your LCD2's'.  I keep my hard to drive HE560 planar HP's connected to it in balanced mode all the time.
Hopefully you got in on the special Drop was running last Sunday for $50 off their remaining Massdrop labeled units.


----------



## Vvnz100

Yes... that's why I jumped on the Drop!


----------



## MrPanda

I have really dirty AC power... I can hear occasional whirs, buzzes and clicks very low level with no audio source, and efficient headphones.   Has anyone conquered a similar problem?  Do any filters work?


----------



## 521994

MrPanda said:


> I have really dirty AC power... I can hear occasional whirs, buzzes and clicks very low level with no audio source, and efficient headphones.   Has anyone conquered a similar problem?  Do any filters work?


I had a similar issue when my mac mini was next to the amp along with the interconnects. I placed the mac mini far from the amp and the issue was solved.


----------



## billyleungkt

Hi Guys,

Not sure this questions came up before (did my search but nothing exactly came up) I wanted to ask.
If I have a tube pre-amp as buffer -> RCA -> THX AAA 789. Will my balanced 4pins XLR and both SE 1/4 and 3.5mm jacks all have sound?

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## Dum101

What dac do you recommend for the 789?


----------



## 521994

billyleungkt said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Not sure this questions came up before (did my search but nothing exactly came up) I wanted to ask.
> If I have a tube pre-amp as buffer -> RCA -> THX AAA 789. Will my balanced 4pins XLR and both SE 1/4 and 3.5mm jacks all have sound?
> ...


Hello Billy,

yes will have. I use a grace balanced DAC and in the SE I have a chord qutest. Both inputs will give signal to all outputs.


----------



## billyleungkt

CortoLmaltese said:


> Hello Billy,
> 
> yes will have. I use a grace balanced DAC and in the SE I have a chord qutest. Both inputs will give signal to all outputs.


That's music to my ears. Thank you!

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## Celty

Dum101 said:


> What dac do you recommend for the 789?


The SMSL SU-8 has been an excellent pairing for me with the 887, so I presume that would hold true with the 789 as well. At $185.00 it's a steal, with RCA and XLR outputs, a remote, excellent measurements, etc..

The Topping D70 and D90 are strong alternatives, but at $499.99 and $699.99 respectively, I'm not sure there would be any audible advantage for the higher price. The only major feature between the three is Bluetooth with the D90, but that is not a necessary capability for me.

SMSL is going to come out with a new DAC, but at this point there are only a few pictures of the design and not much solid information. I have read it has been delayed, but who knows.


----------



## eeagle

Dum101 said:


> What dac do you recommend for the 789?


I keep an SMSL SU-8 plugged into the balance input, and a Drop Airist Audio R-2R DAC into the SE input.  I prefer the R-2R the most, but both are great choices.


----------



## 521994

Dum101 said:


> What dac do you recommend for the 789?


I use two dacs. The chord qutest SE and the grace sdac balanced. The little grace DAC at 140 dollars is one of the best purchase I’ve made.


----------



## Vvnz100

I just bought this last one... but Drop will send it in 6 months!

https://drop.com/buy/drop-grace-design-standard-dac-balanced


----------



## Vvnz100

Celty said:


> The SMSL SU-8 has been an excellent pairing for me with the 887, so I presume that would hold true with the 789 as well. At $185.00 it's a steal, with RCA and XLR outputs, a remote, excellent measurements, etc..



I read that this one was one the dry side of the DACs... I tried with my Pioneer U-05 (excellent DAC/headphone amp) and it was too bright for my ears... at least with my Audeze.


----------



## Celty

Vvnz100 said:


> I read that this one was one the dry side of the DACs... I tried with my Pioneer U-05 (excellent DAC/headphone amp) and it was too bright for my ears... at least with my Audeze.


I've got my SU-8 feeding both my 887 and my slightly suped up Loxjie P20. I don't detect any brightness with either, so I'm happy with it. Can't wait for the day I get to try it with the Glenn OTL I have on order


----------



## fiiom11pro

has anyone here tried Hugo2 as dac for Benchmark HPA4? 

Which one will give better result, Hugo2, Topping d90 or an r2r Denafrips Ares or RME dac?


----------



## 521994

fiiom11pro said:


> has anyone here tried Hugo2 as dac for Benchmark HPA4?
> 
> Which one will give better result, Hugo2, Topping d90 or an r2r Denafrips Ares or RME dac?


my Vote for chord qutest if you are looking for Uber detailed and transparent sound


----------



## fiiom11pro

CortoLmaltese said:


> my Vote for chord qutest if you are looking for Uber detailed and transparent sound



isn't it that chord qutest and chord hugo2 has the same dac chip except the latter don't have the amp section? so yeah, that is one very good consideration. Thanks.


----------



## Voxata

I'll be able to speak for the D90 vs D70 vs Bifrost 2 performance later this evening. I will say that the D70 was faster sounding than the Bifrost 2, but more flat as well.


----------



## MacMan31

Voxata said:


> I'll be able to speak for the D90 vs D70 vs Bifrost 2 performance later this evening. I will say that the D70 was faster sounding than the Bifrost 2, but more flat as well.



I have a D70 DAC paired with my THX789. The D70 came with a remote and one of the options is that I can adjust the volume on the DAC. If I am going to be adjusting the volume on the D70 then what is the best place to set the volume on the 789?


----------



## Voxata

I'd just max out out and use the analog out on your amp


----------



## MacMan31

Voxata said:


> I'd just max out out and use the analog out on your amp



So just set the D70 to "DAC mode" which puts the volume at max and then use the volume on the 789? I ask this cause when I'm lounging in my recliner and listening to music my amp is out of reach. I like having the remote to adjust the volume instead of having to sit up and reach over each time.


----------



## Voxata

Aah, well in that case you've got a balacing act on your lap. I'd shoot for gain 2 pot at 30% depending on your headphone.


----------



## MacMan31

Voxata said:


> Aah, well in that case you've got a balacing act on your lap. I'd shoot for gain 2 pot at 30% depending on your headphone.



Hmm well I just tried that and the volume at 30% on gain two would be too low. The volume on the D70 is at -13dB and it maxes at 0dB so not much headroom. Max volume on gain two I can have the volume on the D70 at around -34dB. Much more headroom to play with. I just don't want to introduce too much "noise".


----------



## Voxata

Oh, I preferred the D70 < Bifrost 2 < D90. The tonality was a bit off IMO on the D70 compared to the other two. Bifrost 2 vs D90 was harder. The B2 is warmer and the D90 is faster with a sharper top end. Each has its strength depending on what you prefer. I stuck with the D90 mainly for the features. Volume control for my monitors via XLR and RCA into the Gilmore Lite MKii.


----------



## Celty

MacMan31 said:


> Hmm well I just tried that and the volume at 30% on gain two would be too low. The volume on the D70 is at -13dB and it maxes at 0dB so not much headroom. Max volume on gain two I can have the volume on the D70 at around -34dB. Much more headroom to play with. I just don't want to introduce too much "noise".


With ZMF Auteur and HD6XX, I run my 887 on gain 3 at about 2 O'clock on the volume dial. I then adjust final volume via the remote on my SU-8 DAC, typically anywhere from -18 to -20 ish.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 4, 2020)

fiiom11pro said:


> has anyone here tried Hugo2 as dac for Benchmark HPA4?
> 
> Which one will give better result, Hugo2, Topping d90 or an r2r Denafrips Ares or RME dac?


I did, and Yggy sounded better over it, so I'm guessing multibit is the way to go with the amp.

I think the THX thing is just marketing to ride on the hype of THX stuff out there.  It still has the Benchmark amp sound.


----------



## 521994

fiiom11pro said:


> isn't it that chord qutest and chord hugo2 has the same dac chip except the latter don't have the amp section? so yeah, that is one very good consideration. Thanks.


That’s right. Chord Hugo and qutest share the exact same dac. The qutest it is only a dac.


----------



## fiiom11pro

SilverEars said:


> I did, and Yggy sounded better over it, so I'm guessing multibit is the way to go with the amp.
> 
> I think the THX thing is just marketing to ride on the hype of THX stuff out there.  It still has the Benchmark amp sound.




so an r2r it is...


----------



## 521994

fiiom11pro said:


> so an r2r it is...


I had the r2r and now I have the 789. The 789 is just an amplifier while the r2r is much more. Nevertheless from an amplifier point of view the THX AAA789 excels


----------



## MacMan31

Celty said:


> With ZMF Auteur and HD6XX, I run my 887 on gain 3 at about 2 O'clock on the volume dial. I then adjust final volume via the remote on my SU-8 DAC, typically anywhere from -18 to -20 ish.



Well I currently have my 789 on medium gain with the volume at max. Then I have the D70 at -32dB. I have plenty of room to go higher on the D70 but I don't want to damage my  hearing. I just want to make sure I'm not introducing any negative effects into the sound.


----------



## ActuallySparky

Voxata said:


> Oh, I preferred the D70 < Bifrost 2 < D90. The tonality was a bit off IMO on the D70 compared to the other two. Bifrost 2 vs D90 was harder. The B2 is warmer and the D90 is faster with a sharper top end. Each has its strength depending on what you prefer. I stuck with the D90 mainly for the features. Volume control for my monitors via XLR and RCA into the Gilmore Lite MKii.


I don't like the sharpness personally - after even short listening sessions I find it wears on my ears. I've been experimenting with non-delta-sigma DACs of late because they sound smoother (particularly in the treble) to me without losing detail. The AKM chips topping uses in the D90 are about the best single bit DAC chips to my ear, but both my Bifrost 2 and my Mojo produce sound I enjoy more and find less fatiguing.


----------



## MacMan31

ActuallySparky said:


> I don't like the sharpness personally - after even short listening sessions I find it wears on my ears. I've been experimenting with non-delta-sigma DACs of late because they sound smoother (particularly in the treble) to me without losing detail. The AKM chips topping uses in the D90 are about the best single bit DAC chips to my ear, but both my Bifrost 2 and my Mojo produce sound I enjoy more and find less fatiguing.



So you think that overall the Bitfrost 2 or Chord Mojo sound better than the D70 (which I have) or the D90?


----------



## ActuallySparky (Apr 6, 2020)

MacMan31 said:


> So you think that overall the Bitfrost 2 or Chord Mojo sound better than the D70 (which I have) or the D90?


I haven't personally heard the D70 or the D90, so I can't say for sure. Compared to my other AKM and Sabre DACs though, both the Bifrost and Mojo are musical and detailed, yet don't have that sharp/harsh high end. Not to say delta-sigma DACs are unlistenable or anything, but long listening sessions leave my ears and brain more tired. They almost feel a _bit_ more analog, like I'm listening to a record rather than a digital file.

Before hearing a multibit/R2R DAC, I'd always associated that sharpness with detail. DACs that had that sharpness also tended to let me pick out tiny details I'd never heard in tracks, the sound of a hand moving across the back of the fret, or musicians shuffling their feet. Now I've seen that those little details can be there without needing to make everything sharp and piercing with the right DAC.

Caveat: I listen almost exclusively to Redbook FLAC. Multibit DACs are great at Redbook, but if you're into DSD or other high def formats, the difference may be smaller and other DAC technologies may be better suited.

Caveat 2: DACs provide relatively subtle changes. Don't expect to go audition a Bifrost and have a night and day difference where you feel like you've never really heard music before or anything.


----------



## MacMan31

ActuallySparky said:


> I haven't personally heard the D70 or the D90, so I can't say for sure. Compared to my other AKM and Sabre DACs though, both the Bifrost and Mojo are musical and detailed, yet don't have that sharp/harsh high end. Not to say delta-sigma DACs are unlistenable or anything, but long listening sessions leave my ears and brain more tired. They almost feel a _bit_ more analog, like I'm listening to a record rather than a digital file.
> 
> Before hearing a multibit/R2R DAC, I'd always associated that sharpness with detail. DACs that had that sharpness also tended to let me pick out tiny details I'd never heard in tracks, the sound of a hand moving across the back of the fret, or musicians shuffling their feet. Now I've seen that those little details can be there without needing to make everything sharp and piercing with the right DAC.
> 
> ...



Does it really matter if the DAC is not "balanced"? I noticed that aside from being fairly small that the Mojo does not have balance outputs but the Bifrost does have them. Also the Bifrost seems to be upgradeable. The Bifrost would be close to $1,000 Canadian for me. Quite pricy. I paid about $660 Canadian for my Topping D70. It's perhaps worth it for the price but the sound is not "night and day" different from the SDAC-B it is replacing.


----------



## ActuallySparky

MacMan31 said:


> Does it really matter if the DAC is not "balanced"? I noticed that aside from being fairly small that the Mojo does not have balance outputs but the Bifrost does have them. Also the Bifrost seems to be upgradeable. The Bifrost would be close to $1,000 Canadian for me. Quite pricy. I paid about $660 Canadian for my Topping D70. It's perhaps worth it for the price but the sound is not "night and day" different from the SDAC-B it is replacing.


Balanced vs single ended is an architecture choice. In the past, balanced was significantly better as it helped reject noise, particularly when transiting longer distances. These days the difference is pretty small, and many single-ended units have very, very low noise. The 789 amp is a great example of this - it's not entirely balanced since the volume pot bridges both inputs to a single ground, yet the amp overall is wonderfully noise-free.

There are those that will swear up and down about the minute improvements that balanced offers in best case scenarios, but with modern gear, it's at best a very subtle choice. If you go get some retro gear it might make a much bigger difference. YMMV, but my advice is to not over-index on something being balanced and instead focus more on the quality, tone, and 'feel' of the sound the gear produces; either you'll like what you hear or you won't.

Try to audition some gear before you buy it - some people don't find DACs to make much of a difference (assuming higher end DACs, not comparing the D70 to the default output of a phone or something), some do. No sense spending a bunch more money if you won't get an enjoyable differece.

If you do want to go for one of them, my preference would actually be for the Mojo in general. Its cheaper, matches my preferences for being a touch warmer than the Bifrost *AND* it can power headphones without an external amp while on the go. I really like using a 3.5mm > RCA adapter and feeding the Asgard with the Mojo - it makes for very smooth, liquid sounding music with rich tones. Not a perfectly neutral sound by any means, but a fun one. The Bifrost is much more on the neutral side - when paired with the 789 it's almost painfully honest about bad mixes or recording.


----------



## MacMan31

ActuallySparky said:


> Balanced vs single ended is an architecture choice. In the past, balanced was significantly better as it helped reject noise, particularly when transiting longer distances. These days the difference is pretty small, and many single-ended units have very, very low noise. The 789 amp is a great example of this - it's not entirely balanced since the volume pot bridges both inputs to a single ground, yet the amp overall is wonderfully noise-free.
> 
> There are those that will swear up and down about the minute improvements that balanced offers in best case scenarios, but with modern gear, it's at best a very subtle choice. If you go get some retro gear it might make a much bigger difference. YMMV, but my advice is to not over-index on something being balanced and instead focus more on the quality, tone, and 'feel' of the sound the gear produces; either you'll like what you hear or you won't.
> 
> ...



Hmm okay. Well my music preferences are mostly instrumental such as movie scores or classical, jazz and blues also to a lesser extent. But I also like classic rock/pop and even more early 1900s music such as "big band" music. That's what I mostly listen to nowadays. When I was in my teens and 20's I mostly listened to the mainstream "top 40" stuff. But I'm 37 now and my music tastes have changed a lot. The Mojo is $650 Canadian which is about as much as I paid for the D70. Is the quality really worth the price?


----------



## ActuallySparky (Apr 6, 2020)

MacMan31 said:


> The Mojo is $650 Canadian which is about as much as I paid for the D70. Is the quality really worth the price?


That question I can't answer for you! If you can find a dealer or someone in your area with one, spending a little time auditioning it will help you make that decision! For me the Mojo was worth the price I paid for it (about $350 USD used), but your milage/enjoyment may vary significantly.

Here's a better question - do you enjoy music from your D70? Are there limitations it's presenting? If not, upgrading might not add any value to your life.


----------



## MacMan31

ActuallySparky said:


> That question I can't answer for you! If you can find a dealer or someone in your area with one, spending a little time auditioning it will help you make that decision! For me the Mojo was worth the price I paid for it (about $350 USD used), but your milage/enjoyment may vary significantly.
> 
> Here's a better question - do you enjoy music from your D70? Are there limitations it's presenting? If not, upgrading might not add any value to your life.



Well so far I enjoy the D70. You mentioned before about certain DACs or amps being fatiguing. I guess it just means I wouldn't be able to listen for long sessions. Not sure how I would be able to know that unless my body gives me some sort of signal to stop listening. Like perhaps I would feel really tired. The things is that I have enjoyed every DAC and/or amp I have had so far going through this hobby. My first little DAC/amp was the AudioEngine D1, then the Micca Origen+, The Aune X7S paired with the standard SDAC, The O2+SDAC combo, The 789 + SDAC-B combo, the Topping DX7S and now the 789 + D70. I've had numerous headphone along the way as well such as the 6XX and 58X, Focal Elex and Elear, Aeon Flow Closed and Open, HiFiman 4XX. It's been quite the experience so far. Perhaps I'm just looking for some "end game" which I will never find.


----------



## ActuallySparky

MacMan31 said:


> Perhaps I'm just looking for some "end game" which I will never find.


This is an unfortunate reality in the audio world. There's always something better - but it's often very expensive, and for very, very little improvement.

On the low end, the differences are huge. Upgrading from plugging headphones directly into your phone to a dedicated DAC/AMP chain like yours will make *enormous* differences. Upgrading individual components beyond the mid/high range gear you have will result in some changes, but far more subtle ones. The bang for your buck on improvements gets vanishingly small when we start to talk about $1,000 components.

If you're made of money, and this is your one true passion, it might be worth spending the money to upgrade... or it might not be. If you're happy with your current gear, and don't find yourself getting tired of listening to it, then listen to it and be happy. When you get a chance to sample something new, do so - once you've heard it you can decide if it's worth the upgrade costs to get that new sound into your life for longer than the short time you were able to borrow/listen to something.


----------



## MacMan31

ActuallySparky said:


> This is an unfortunate reality in the audio world. There's always something better - but it's often very expensive, and for very, very little improvement.
> 
> On the low end, the differences are huge. Upgrading from plugging headphones directly into your phone to a dedicated DAC/AMP chain like yours will make *enormous* differences. Upgrading individual components beyond the mid/high range gear you have will result in some changes, but far more subtle ones. The bang for your buck on improvements gets vanishingly small when we start to talk about $1,000 components.
> 
> If you're made of money, and this is your one true passion, it might be worth spending the money to upgrade... or it might not be. If you're happy with your current gear, and don't find yourself getting tired of listening to it, then listen to it and be happy. When you get a chance to sample something new, do so - once you've heard it you can decide if it's worth the upgrade costs to get that new sound into your life for longer than the short time you were able to borrow/listen to something.



Well sad to say I'm not made of money. In these troubling times I will have to sell some of my gear. I'm debating whether to keep the 789 + D70 combo or keep the DX7S all in one DAC/amp. I'm also selling my Focal Elears and I may sell my HD58X as I also have the HD6XX. However I do have the Audeze LCD-2C on the way. Bought I used set of those as I have been interested in them for a long time.


----------



## holospringfan

can someone tell me if the THX 789 and monoprice 887 have a lot of differences? the buttons and lay-out seem the seem, except for minor aethetics.
do they sound different? is one better than the other? or are they clones

thank you


----------



## MacMan31

holospringfan said:


> can someone tell me if the THX 789 and monoprice 887 have a lot of differences? the buttons and lay-out seem the seem, except for minor aethetics.
> do they sound different? is one better than the other? or are they clones
> 
> thank you



The Monoprice 887 is "technically" better hence the higher number in the name. But I doubt anyone could tell the difference in a blind listening test. Either one would be an excellent choice.


----------



## Marlowe (Apr 6, 2020)

holospringfan said:


> can someone tell me if the THX 789 and monoprice 887 have a lot of differences? the buttons and lay-out seem the seem, except for minor aethetics.
> do they sound different? is one better than the other? or are they clones
> 
> thank you


They are obviously quite similar but are not precisely clones. However there is really no audible difference between them as to performance. Yes, the Monoprice tests very, very marginally better at ASR, which gets Amir, in his typically single minded dogmatism, all excited--he treats it like the audio equivalent of Robin Hood splitting the arrow in the archery tournament. But the extremely minute differences are audible only to bats. Maybe. One reviewer whom I trust stated that he could hear no difference between these two amps and noted that if someone released a new amp tomorrow with a couple more zeros in measured distortion it would really make no difference.


----------



## 521994

MacMan31 said:


> Perhaps I'm just looking for some "end game" which I will never find.


We all have been in this rabbit hole. Just relax step back from audio a bit, like few days, and go back. Stop super analyzing everything and enjoy the music. Enjoy it like when all we had was a battery powered Walkman and some bad headphones that made our daily life brilliant.


----------



## MacMan31

CortoLmaltese said:


> We all have been in this rabbit hole. Just relax step back from audio a bit, like few days, and go back. Stop super analyzing everything and enjoy the music. Enjoy it like when all we had was a battery powered Walkman and some bad headphones that made our daily life brilliant.



Well somehow I don't recall ever having a walkman though I'm sure I have. But I do remember having a disc-man in high school and carrying it around everywhere along with a CD booklet. Good times.  In any case I've still got a decision to make as to which I'm going to keep and which to sell. To me it's down to the DX7S and the THX789 + D70 combo. No point in having two amps. Both sound great though I think there is a bit of a difference in sound. The DX7s uses ESS chips while the D70 uses AKM chips. I know the 789 has more power but I'm not close to the limit on the DX7S though I'm only using my HD6XX headphones.


----------



## holospringfan

Marlowe said:


> They are obviously quite similar but are not precisely clones. However there is really no audible difference between them as to performance. Yes, the Monoprice tests very, very marginally better at ASR, which gets Amir, in his typically single minded dogmatism, all excited--he treats it like the audio equivalent of Robin Hood splitting the arrow in the archery tournament. But the extremely minute differences are audible only to bats. Maybe. One reviewer whom I trust stated that he could hear no difference between these two amps and noted that if someone released a new amp tomorrow with a couple more zeros in measured distortion it would really make no difference.


Thank you! Makes sense!


----------



## m usicguy

So I have the 887 from monoprice.   Anybody do a LSr power supply beside the teredak and how much of an improvement you hear?

m uiscguy


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Would the Arya Would be too much Overkill for the THX aaa 789 amp?
I guess He1000 at least would be, right?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Viper Necklampy said:


> Would the Arya Would be too much Overkill for the THX aaa 789 amp?
> I guess He1000 at least would be, right?


The 789 can handle the Arya fine, but considering it's not a very warm headphone and the 789 isn't a warm amp it may not give a sound signature you're looking for. YMMV!

I use the Arya for testing in the SMSL SP200, also with THX AAA tech here:


----------



## Shane D

For those that haven't heard, this amp has a new retail price of $299.00. Pretty cool!


----------



## PopZeus

Shane D said:


> For those that haven't heard, this amp has a new retail price of $299.00. Pretty cool!


----------



## mixman

What a bargain that is!


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 17, 2020)

Relaxasaurus said:


> The 789 can handle the Arya fine, but considering it's not a very warm headphone and the 789 isn't a warm amp it may not give a sound signature you're looking for. YMMV!
> 
> I use the Arya for testing in the SMSL SP200, also with THX AAA tech here:



I love the signature of 789 and He1000V2 which i know (?) is more forward and aggressive vs Arya, Arya is more warm for sure, so for Tonality we are there, my dac is kinda analitic, so when i would pass into D90 i guess there will be more warm and balanced overall, so i guess for that should not be a problem.. Indeed could be a problem the added warmness for my tastes but maybe not, as Arya Would sound world class on 789, i mean, the amp capability will squeeze the Arya at best, so would be kinda sounding He1000V2, so maybe HeK's on 789 is lot of waste of capability (Just my thought? Not sure if i am talking S*@%)
Also, Sp200 nono, 789 sounds way more detailed and staged to me


----------



## sysyphos

Hello to everyone,
I am using RME ADI-2 DAC paired with HD800s and looking for a dedicated amp. My dream is V280 for its tonality and suitability for HD800s , but as you know, it is not a cheap item. Therefore, I am considering THX AAA 789. Do you have any experience with those together? Any harshness, causes fatigue etc.?
Thanks,


----------



## 521994

sysyphos said:


> Hello to everyone,
> I am using RME ADI-2 DAC paired with HD800s and looking for a dedicated amp. My dream is V280 for its tonality and suitability for HD800s , but as you know, it is not a cheap item. Therefore, I am considering THX AAA 789. Do you have any experience with those together? Any harshness, causes fatigue etc.?
> Thanks,


Hello,
I have the HD800s and the 789. It is very transparent with great detail. Not warm kind of sound but certainly not harsh. I use the HD800s for acoustic, jazz and classical and it’s sublime. For other genres I use other headphones


----------



## Tuneslover

MacMan31 said:


> I've got a decision to make as to which I'm going to keep and which to sell. To me it's down to the DX7S and the THX789 + D70 combo. No point in having two amps. Both sound great though I think there is a bit of a difference in sound. The DX7s uses ESS chips while the D70 uses AKM chips. I know the 789 has more power but I'm not close to the limit on the DX7S though I'm only using my HD6XX headphones.



I started reading this thread a few days ago and finally caught up.  Interesting history about the availability of the 789, as well as the price jump then the drop in price.  While you were deciding or trying to snag a 798 you repeatedly asked whether the 789 is still a good deal.  Well now that you have one, IS IT?  What's your opinion of the 798?

I have been interested in this amp since it's release but I already have 3 amps & DAC setups, however since they decided to drop the price (pun intended) by $101 U.S. I figured now is the time to buy one so I just purchased one.


----------



## DenverW

I don’t need another amp eithear, but at 299 I want one.  Picked up one from drop.  They have a 30 day return on it, so I can send it back if I dont like it.


----------



## Focux

anyone here with the 789 that has ananda and arya as well?

my 789 has shipped and am contemplating if the arya is worth double the price of the ananda (at least where i am it's 2X)


----------



## Tuneslover (Apr 21, 2020)

I was wondering if anyone has performed any kind of initial burn-in on their 789.  If so, how many hours of burn-in did you do and did you notice any changes/improvements afterwards?

Also, is anyone using their setup with a Project Ember as a preamp and using the 789 as the power amp?  If so, any impressions?

Thanks!


----------



## 521994

Tuneslover said:


> I started reading this thread a few days ago and finally caught up.  Interesting history about the availability of the 789, as well as the price jump then the drop in price.  While you were deciding or trying to snag a 798 you repeatedly asked whether the 789 is still a good deal.  Well now that you have one, IS IT?  What's your opinion of the 798?
> 
> I have been interested in this amp since it's release but I already have 3 amps & DAC setups, however since they decided to drop the price (pun intended) by $101 U.S. I figured now is the time to buy one so I just purchased one.


For me the argument for the 789 is simple. Do you want an amp with enough power, clarity and transparency that will do one thing only and that's amplifying the signal without coloration? Buy a 789 and be happy because you will not be bothered again unless you want the "tube" sound which the 789 is not.


----------



## m usicguy

Has anybody tried a better smps power supply.  Like a mean well gts60-24.  it puts out 2.5 amps.

just courious

m usicguy


----------



## eimis

Vvnz100 said:


> I just bought this last one... but Drop will send it in 6 months!
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/drop-grace-design-standard-dac-balanced


have you received yours yet? mine says
*Order Status*
Preparing for shipment
bought on 4.19th


----------



## Vvnz100

No, I bought mine 3/18th and it's still:

*ORDER STATUS*
Order placed with the vendor
*ESTIMATED SHIP DATE*
Aug 31, 2020 PT

But I send it in Europe (I come back in France after 10 years everywhere)... If I knew that I bought it for now in Chicago!


----------



## eimis

Vvnz100 said:


> No, I bought mine 3/18th and it's still:
> 
> *ORDER STATUS*
> Order placed with the vendor
> ...


mine says
*Estimated Ship Date*
Apr 20, 2020 PT

looking at yours, I think it's safe to say we'll probably receive them around christmas. i'll completely forget about it and it will be a nice surprise


----------



## Tuneslover

I assume that I can use the "SE Pass" output on the 789 to feed my Paradigm Shift powered speakers.  Does that mean when I turn the 789 on that both the powered speakers and the headphone outputs will become simultaneously active?  If so, I assume that I will need to keep the speakers power switches shut off until I want to hear the speakers.

Have I got this right?  Thank you.


----------



## swampy1977

I wish I could get one from US without paying import tax. Prices suck in Europe.


----------



## eeagle

Tuneslover said:


> I assume that I can use the "SE Pass" output on the 789 to feed my Paradigm Shift powered speakers.  Does that mean when I turn the 789 on that both the powered speakers and the headphone outputs will become simultaneously active?  If so, I assume that I will need to keep the speakers power switches shut off until I want to hear the speakers.
> 
> Have I got this right?  Thank you.


The SE Pass Through is active all the time regardless of whether the 789 is powered on or off.


----------



## Shlaghett0

swampy1977 said:


> I wish I could get one from US without paying import tax. Prices suck in Europe.



Yeah I was in the first batch of 789 when it was 400 dollars and what a surprise when I found out that I need to pay 80dollars more to get it (I live in france btw)


----------



## 521994

Shlaghett0 said:


> Yeah I was in the first batch of 789 when it was 400 dollars and what a surprise when I found out that I need to pay 80dollars more to get it (I live in france btw)


Now it’s available for 299. So I guess that will compensate for post and import tax.


----------



## Shlaghett0

CortoLmaltese said:


> Now it’s available for 299. So I guess that will compensate for post and import tax.



Yeah but I'm not mad, even at 480dollars it's still a good value and a amazing piece of tech


----------



## 521994

Shlaghett0 said:


> Yeah but I'm not mad, even at 480dollars it's still a good value and a amazing piece of tech


Now it’s a bargain


----------



## ActuallySparky (Apr 27, 2020)

Did anyone else notice the THX ONE announcement on Drop?

https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-one-linear-amplifier/

Looks like they are trying to bring the price down to <$200 by removing the balanced input/output but otherwise using the same components and circuit design. I'm intrigued by this as an even more budget option for a lot of folks. Already the existing 789 doesn't really benefit greatly from the balanced IO, even the single ended output sound great to my ears.


----------



## Shlaghett0

CortoLmaltese said:


> Now it’s a bargain



Haha true


----------



## PopZeus

ActuallySparky said:


> Did anyone else notice the THX ONE announcement on Drop?
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-one-linear-amplifier/
> 
> Looks like they are trying to bring the price down to <$200 by removing the balanced input/output but otherwise using the same components and circuit design. I'm intrigued by this as an even more budget option for a lot of folks. Already the existing 789 doesn't really benefit greatly from the balanced IO, even the single ended output sound great to my ears.


Looks like the THX ONE will allow the rear RCA outs can act as a preamp, which the 789 doesn't.


----------



## eimis

so today I found out my DIY amp is junk.

compared to 789, from what I hear, it distorts like a madman. on 789 music even sounds "slow" lol. the blackness of that background...my DIY amp has something in between sounds - some sort of "pollution" - 789 completely lacks that.

damn


----------



## bcaulf17

I have a Magni 3 and I’m wondering if I need to get an 789 as an upgrade. The Magni 3 is the only amp I’ve used, but I’ve seen some people say it’s a bit colored by today’s standards. The 789 seems like the logical step up but is it worth the coin? Would I even be able to hear a difference myself?

Also, there are other $100 options that are apparently similar like the JDS Atom and newer 3+/Heresy, how do those fare? Can anyone help me out? I’m a bit stuck lol, I’m not the most well versed on this side of the audio hobby.


----------



## Zachik

bcaulf17 said:


> The Magni 3 is the only amp I’ve used, but I’ve seen some people say it’s a bit colored by today’s standards. The 789 seems like the logical step up but is it worth the coin?


Unfortunately, people (especially new to this hobby) think that "colored" equals "bad" or inferior 
Many people (myself included) are big fans of tube amps, which are "notorious" for being colored and distorting, but that what makes them sound so good!
So, if your personal taste is for as clean and as neutral sound as you can get - the 789 WILL be an upgrade for you. 
Only way really to figure out where your personal preference lies is to try it out and see if you like it more, or if you find it "dry" and boring.
Also, keep in mind that synergy with headphones used is KEY. Some headphones sound great on colored amps, while others would sound better on neutral amps like the 789


----------



## bcaulf17

Zachik said:


> Unfortunately, people (especially new to this hobby) think that "colored" equals "bad" or inferior
> Many people (myself included) are big fans of tube amps, which are "notorious" for being colored and distorting, but that what makes them sound so good!
> So, if your personal taste is for as clean and as neutral sound as you can get - the 789 WILL be an upgrade for you.
> Only way really to figure out where your personal preference lies is to try it out and see if you like it more, or if you find it "dry" and boring.
> Also, keep in mind that synergy with headphones used is KEY. Some headphones sound great on colored amps, while others would sound better on neutral amps like the 789


Thanks for your answer. Thing is, when people say it’s colored, I don’t know exactly what they mean. Do they think it’s colored just because it looks that way on a graph? Does it actually sound that way? Some people make the sound difference seem night and day. Others say it’s not even noticeable. It’s hard to tell.


----------



## Tuneslover

Zachik said:


> Unfortunately, people (especially new to this hobby) think that "colored" equals "bad" or inferior
> Many people (myself included) are big fans of tube amps, which are "notorious" for being colored and distorting, but that what makes them sound so good!
> So, if your personal taste is for as clean and as neutral sound as you can get - the 789 WILL be an upgrade for you.
> Only way really to figure out where your personal preference lies is to try it out and see if you like it more, or if you find it "dry" and boring.
> Also, keep in mind that synergy with headphones used is KEY. Some headphones sound great on colored amps, while others would sound better on neutral amps like the 789


Excellent response!!


----------



## Tuneslover

bcaulf17 said:


> Thanks for your answer. Thing is, when people say it’s colored, I don’t know exactly what they mean. Do they think it’s colored just because it looks that way on a graph? Does it actually sound that way? Some people make the sound difference seem night and day. Others say it’s not even noticeable. It’s hard to tell.


I had the Magni a few years ago and it's a great amp for $100.  When the Jotunheim was released I purchased it and sold the Magni.  The Jotunheim is a much better amp than the Magni but also more expensive.  Last week I received my DROP+THX AAA 789 and have been listening to it for a few days now and it competes very capably with the Jot.  I find the Jot to be a bit warmer sounding than the 789 while the 789 is a very clean sounding amp.  Both are excellent amps and I'm keeping both.  The 789 is the better deal now since Massdrop dropped the price of the 789 by $100 making it less expensive than the Jotunheim.


----------



## bcaulf17

Tuneslover said:


> I had the Magni a few years ago and it's a great amp for $100.  When the Jotunheim was released I purchased it and sold the Magni.  The Jotunheim is a much better amp than the Magni but also more expensive.  Last week I received my DROP+THX AAA 789 and have been listening to it for a few days now and it competes very capably with the Jot.  I find the Jot to be a bit warmer sounding than the 789 while the 789 is a very clean sounding amp.  Both are excellent amps and I'm keeping both.  The 789 is the better deal now since Massdrop dropped the price of the 789 by $100 making it less expensive than the Jotunheim.


Was it the Magni 1 or Magni 3? Do you think it’s worth jumping from the Magni 3 to the 789? I know the 3+ and Heresy have been getting good marks for the $100 tag.


----------



## betula

Zachik said:


> Also, keep in mind that synergy with headphones used is KEY. Some headphones sound great on colored amps, while others would sound better on neutral amps like the 789


This is a great advice for beginners!


bcaulf17 said:


> Thanks for your answer. Thing is, when people say it’s colored, I don’t know exactly what they mean. Do they think it’s colored just because it looks that way on a graph? Does it actually sound that way? Some people make the sound difference seem night and day. Others say it’s not even noticeable. It’s hard to tell.


You won't really know what 'coloured' is until you try a really uncoloured/neutral setup. It is all about trying different things and educating your ears, which will lead you to find your preferred sound signature. Neutral/uncoloured means music is portrayed according to the recording, without adding any extra 'flavour'. Most amps are coloured to different extent, usually producing a warmer sound or emphasising a frequency range a little more than others. 
As @Zachik said, pairing equipment is crucial. Most people (80%) want to pair warmer/coloured headphones with neutral amp, and add a little life to neutral headphones with a warmer/coloured amp. And there are the extremists who want ultimate neutral clarity with neutral headphones and amps (10%) which the 80% would call clinical. And the other end using warm headphones on warm sounding amps (10%). The majority is playing carefully with pairing different equipment. 
Discovering your taste by auditioning, buying and selling different headphones and amps is part of the fun. Don't let anyone tell you what sounds right or wrong.


----------



## Tuneslover

bcaulf17 said:


> Was it the Magni 1 or Magni 3? Do you think it’s worth jumping from the Magni 3 to the 789? I know the 3+ and Heresy have been getting good marks for the $100 tag.


I was referring to the Magni 3.

Tough question to answer, I've been through what you're going through as well.  Unfortunately only you can make the call whether or not you want to jump to the 789 but all that I can say is both the Magni and 789 are terrific amps selling for excellent prices.

What I have repeatedly done is purchase the amp I'm interested in and then compare it against the one I was planning on replacing.  Turns out the Magni is the only amp that I actually sold.  The last few amps I've purchased I just end up keeping because I like them and they each have their own "flavour".  Currently I own 3 amps (789, Jot and Lake People G109S) and intend to keep them all as I enjoy listening to and comparing the amps and essentially assigning which headphones go best with each of the amps.  Yeah I know I'm nuts, at least that's what my wife thinks...LOL!

The madness continues as I will be receiving a new DAC tomorrow with a built in headphone amp so shortly I will have 4 amps to play with.  I will eventually probably end up selling at least one of them.


----------



## bcaulf17

Tuneslover said:


> I was referring to the Magni 3.
> 
> Tough question to answer, I've been through what you're going through as well.  Unfortunately only you can make the call whether or not you want to jump to the 789 but all that I can say is both the Magni and 789 are terrific amps selling for excellent prices.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Zachik

bcaulf17 said:


> Some people make the sound difference seem night and day. Others say it’s not even noticeable. It’s hard to tell.


Welcome to audiophiland


----------



## Zachik

Tuneslover said:


> Currently I own 3 amps (789, Jot and Lake People G109S) and intend to keep them all as I enjoy listening to and comparing the amps and essentially assigning which headphones go best with each of the amps. Yeah I know I'm nuts, at least that's what my wife thinks...LOL!


Then I guess your wife would think I am a total nut case... Only 3 amps?


----------



## claud W (May 6, 2020)

AMPS?? lets see. DNA Stratus, SPL Phonitor E, Schiit Ragg, Schiit Vali 2  and the 789 on order. who is crazy now. This does not include my 4 DAPs.


----------



## Tuneslover

claud W said:


> AMPS?? lets see. DNA Stratus, SPL Phonitor E, Schiit Ragg, Schiit Vali 2  and the 789 on order. who is crazy now. This does not include my 4 DAPs.


You guys are making me feel much better!!


----------



## bcaulf17

Also (hope someone can answer this); I looked at the dimensions and it says the amp is only 2.2 inches tall but it seems quite a bit taller than that. Can anyone confirm? If I got one, it would be placed in a tight space of about 3 inches in height. I’m guessing the rubber feet make it look taller?


----------



## Tuneslover (May 6, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> Also (hope someone can answer this); I looked at the dimensions and it says the amp is only 2.2 inches tall but it seems quite a bit taller than that. Can anyone confirm? If I got one, it would be placed in a tight space of about 3 inches in height. I’m guessing the rubber feet make it look taller?


2 1/4" including the rubber feet.

The amp runs pretty cool hopefully the 3/4" left over is enough for proper ventilation.


----------



## Tuneslover (May 6, 2020)

MikeW said:


> The 789 always outputs signal from its balanced headphone out regardless of input. But it converts balanced input to single ended before amplification stage.
> 
> So yes, that does mean balanced in > single ended conversion> amplification > balanced output.
> 
> ...



Hello @MikeW please help me understand what you are saying in your post.

I think you're saying that I can connect SE cable outs from my DAC to the SE inputs on the 789, then I can plug my XLR balanced headphones into the 789's balanced output to hear my headphones balanced.  However the only way I get sound coming out of my balanced headphone is if I switch the input on the front input selector of the 789 to SE.  If I switch the front input to Balanced I get no sound coming out of the Balance headphone output which I assume makes sense because I don't have XLR Balanced cables running from the DAC to the 789.  The input selector HAS to be switched to SE in order to hear anything coming out the Balanced output on the 789.

So running with only SE cables from the DAC to the 789 am I truly getting the benefit of the Balanced higher output?

Next I plugged in XLR balanced cables from my DAC into the XLR balanced inputs to the 789.  Then I switched the input selector on the front of 789 to Balanced and my Balanced headphones jumped quite noticeably in volume as compared to only using SE cables.  This leads me to believe that in order to get the full capability of Balanced with the 789 you need to use XLR balanced input to the 789.


----------



## bcaulf17

Tuneslover said:


> 2 1/4" including the rubber feet.
> 
> The amp runs pretty cool hopefully the 3/4" left over is enough for proper ventilation.


That’s so strange, idk why it looks so much taller than that lol. Where I would want to put it is 3 inches tall so I guess it’ll fit? Although I’m still a bit nervous about it..thank you for replying.


----------



## Tuneslover

bcaulf17 said:


> That’s so strange, idk why it looks so much taller than that lol. Where I would want to put it is 3 inches tall so I guess it’ll fit? Although I’m still a bit nervous about it..thank you for replying.


It certainly will fit into your 3" space however check to see if the top of the 789 doesn't get too hot.  I suspect you should be ok because the 789 does run very cool but do check it to be certain.


----------



## bcaulf17

Tuneslover said:


> It certainly will fit into your 3" space however check to see if the top of the 789 doesn't get too hot.  I suspect you should be ok because the 789 does run very cool but do check it to be certain.


I imagine that wouldn’t be an issue. I think I might go for it. It seems worth it as an option to just get and be done with it because it’s probably all I’ll ever need out of an amp.


----------



## bcaulf17

Alright, I pulled the trigger on the 789. Took a bit of hesitation, but at $300 I feel like it’s a really good deal for probably the most highly regarded amp in recent memory. I think it’ll be worth it for the build and finish, the features (which I probably won’t use but might down the line) and the peace of mind knowing I’m getting the last amp I’ll probably ever need because of its transparency, linearity, cleanliness and power to drive literally everything with 0 noise.

I do really like the way it looks!


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Can anyone explain to me why single-ended sounds better than balanced on this amp? I A/B’d last night for 2 hours and have confirmed it to be true. I was using my Verite Open, which has an impedance of 300 ohms. So you would think the extra power from balanced would at least sound just as good, if not better. But it doesn’t. Single-ended is more engaging just like @MacedonianHero said in his review. But I find that weird.


----------



## eimis

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Can anyone explain to me why single-ended sounds better than balanced on this amp? I A/B’d last night for 2 hours and have confirmed it to be true. I was using my Verite Open, which has an impedance of 300 ohms. So you would think the extra power from balanced would at least sound just as good, if not better. But it doesn’t. Single-ended is more engaging just like @MacedonianHero said in his review. But I find that weird.


IIRC on 789 balanced goes through more active circuitry than SE. Not sure if that explains it, as a properly done balanced>SE circuit (789 is proper??) should be inaudible


----------



## Vvnz100

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Can anyone explain to me why single-ended sounds better than balanced on this amp? I A/B’d last night for 2 hours and have confirmed it to be true. I was using my Verite Open, which has an impedance of 300 ohms. So you would think the extra power from balanced would at least sound just as good, if not better. But it doesn’t. Single-ended is more engaging just like @MacedonianHero said in his review. But I find that weird.


Maybe it's a cable difference... I had the same experience with my LCD 2C, brighter with balanced cable and dark with SE cable...


----------



## betula

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Can anyone explain to me why single-ended sounds better than balanced on this amp? I A/B’d last night for 2 hours and have confirmed it to be true. I was using my Verite Open, which has an impedance of 300 ohms. So you would think the extra power from balanced would at least sound just as good, if not better. But it doesn’t. Single-ended is more engaging just like @MacedonianHero said in his review. But I find that weird.


Balanced is not necessarily better, I would rather say 'different' (usually with more power). There are better implemented SE designs than most balanced (TT2). It is all about implementation, not the shape of that plug or socket.
That said, the balanced out on the CMA600i and the Taurus MKII was easily 'better' to me than the SE out. Punchier, more dynamic, cleaner, clearer. The SE out on the other hand sounded smoother and a bit warmer with smaller space. Depending on the headphones I can see someone preferring the SE out even on those amps. 
I am still waiting for my THX-789 to arrive, so I can't confirm what the case is with the 789 yet but it might be something similar.


----------



## PopZeus

The balanced circuit delivers more power with a lower noise floor than the single-ended. I don't care if it's not a purely balanced signal path; it does exactly what it needs to do without adding too much total cost of the amp.


----------



## ActuallySparky

I did a lot of A/B testing of XLR vs RCA input on the 789, and then switching cables on a few of my headphones and A/Bing the balanced vs SE output. To my ears (which are far from golden), I couldn't really hear any difference between any combination of them other than gain. XLR input added volume, and balanced output added volume. If I adjusted for that gain, the SQ and headstage felt the same.

This is far from true on all devices. Some have dramatically better or worse results on balanced vs SE, but the 789 doesn't seem to care - it's just good clean power all around.


----------



## Vvnz100

That’s why I was asking about cables.


----------



## m usicguy

call me crazy.   i think the lower gain stage  for a given headphone sounds better around the 2-3 range..  I could turn up the gain so 9-10 sounds louder but I think with this amp  2-3 on the lower gain is smoother less glare???

just saying

m usicguy


----------



## XERO1 (May 12, 2020)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Can anyone explain to me why single-ended sounds better than balanced on this amp? I A/B’d last night for 2 hours and have confirmed it to be true. I was using my Verite Open, which has an impedance of 300 ohms. So you would think the extra power from balanced would at least sound just as good, if not better. But it doesn’t. Single-ended is more engaging just like @MacedonianHero said in his review. But I find that weird.


Interesting.

So far, my only long-term experience with a balanced amp is with my LCX, and let me tell you, the difference is night and day, wth the balanced output sounding *significantly* better across the board.  It's SE out sounds pretty good, but it's balanced out sounds _amazing_. So this is quite surprising to hear about the 789, because it is usually the other way around.

I've been tempted to get a 789 since the price drop, and now I may have to pull the trigger just to hear if this is true for myself. Plus, it'd make a nice counterpoint to the LCX, tonality-wise.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

XERO1 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So far, my only long-term experience with a balanced amp is with my LCX, and let me tell you, the difference is night and day, wth the balanced output sounding *significantly* better across the board.  It's SE out sounds pretty good, but it's balanced out sounds _amazing_. So this is quite surprising to hear about the 789, because it is usually the other way around.
> 
> I've been tempted to get a 789 since the price drop, and now I may have to pull the trigger just to hear if this is true for myself. Plus, it'd make a nice counterpoint to the LCX, tonality-wise.



It might depend on the headphone. The Verite is already pretty smooth and it seems like balanced smooths out the sound even more. I guess because it’s cleaner power. So single-ended sounds a little more etched and lively.

But I’ve been switching back and forth even more and balanced gives more separation of instruments and sounds, especially with percussion. So depending on the track, I may prefer balanced as well.

Either way, they both sound good and it’s a very good amp. I like it more than my Jotunheim.


----------



## Marlowe

Three different stock XLR cables on my Focal Elex failed three times in a little over a year. (A long story I've addressed on the Elex thread; after Drop replaced the Elex twice, I gave up and now have a Periapt XLR cable.) In the brief times that I was without the XLR cable, I used the stock single ended cable with the THX 789. Other than having to turn the pot up a little bit to get the same level of volume, I noticed absolutely zero difference in sound quality on the Elex.


----------



## bcaulf17 (May 12, 2020)

A couple pages back I mentioned that I ordered a THX 789 and for a couple days I was looking forward to receiving it. But then I started to get cold feet. I started coming back down to earth and remembering that, according to my initial research, there are a few $100 amps that perform as well as the 789, at least to the point where it would be near impossible to tell the difference. Did I really need the 789? Could save a lot of money getting something as good for less money.

So, I reached out to Drop asking if I could cancel my order before it shipped. It shipped before they got back to me (which they still haven’t done). So now it’s on its way.

Ive since started to wonder; should I keep it or try to return it as soon as it arrives? I started to lean towards keeping, thinking about the build and features again, and the numerous accolades...

...and then I came across another potential deal breaker. I read some comments saying that this amp doesn’t drive the HD6XX loud enough in SE. Is this true? Now if me owning this thing would also mean that I need to fork over cash for balanced cables because it can’t get an HD6XX loud enough then I’m out.


----------



## Marlowe (May 12, 2020)

I haven't gotten around to getting an XLR cable for the HD 6XX (I don't use it that much, and when I do I generally use it with the single ended Vahalla 2), but the THX 789, single ended on gain 2, drives it to thunderous volume. Granted, I have to turn the volume up quite a bit more than with the 80 ohm Focal Elex out of the balanced output on gain 2 (say, 2 o'clock rather than 11). IMO, I like it loud, but (like everything in this hobby) that's subjective. YMMV.


----------



## betula

bcaulf17 said:


> I read some comments saying that this amp doesn’t drive the HD6XX loud enough in SE. Is this true?


This simply can't be true.


----------



## m usicguy

this amp drive my he560 SE  very well.


----------



## bcaulf17

betula said:


> This simply can't be true.


I mean I hope it’s not true, but that’s what I read. It is very high impedance after all. So I don’t know. I know this thing has tons of power through balanced but the SE is actually less powerful than a Magni/Atom.


----------



## Marlowe (May 13, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> I mean I hope it’s not true, but that’s what I read. It is very high impedance after all. So I don’t know. I know this thing has tons of power through balanced but the SE is actually less powerful than a Magni/Atom.


Look, you need to understand that most headphones, even full size over-the-ear headphones, just don't need that much power, at least not to get up to listenable volumes. There are exceptions; the HD 6XX is not one of them. According to Fiio's specs, my Q1 Mk 2 only has just 11 mW at 300 ohms from its single ended output. Although I generally only use this amp/DAC for IEMs, it drives the HD 6XX as loud as I want it--though admittedly I have to turn the volume almost to max. At max volume, it's a little louder than I want but not unbearably loud. Is this the optimum amp or power output for the HD6XX? No way, but it gets pretty loud and sounds at least OK. My LG G8 with Quad DAC, pretty much the best audio you can get on a mainstream phone, is similar, though I need to get volume to 60-70% for reasonable volume and around 90% to be nice and loud. And while it is far better than almost all phones, I am confident that it is not outputting power anywhere near the level of the THX 789, even single ended.

According to Drop's specs, the THX 789's single ended output puts out _200_ mW at 300 ohms. This is plenty to drive the HD6XX on gain 2 and, as I noted above, at ear bleeding volume. It also sounds very good. I prefer the HD6XX a little more out of the Schiit Valhalla 2, a full on tube amp that pretty much exists to drive 300 ohm Sennheisers and Beyers; according to Schiit's specs it outputs 300 mW at 300 ohms and is generally considered a particularly good mid-fi pairing with the 6XX. But the 789 does a fine job with them single ended.


----------



## bcaulf17

Marlowe said:


> Look, you need to understand that most headphones, even full size over-the-ear headphones, just don't need that much power, at least not to get up to listenable volumes. There are exceptions; the HD 6XX is not one of them. According to Fiio's specs, my Q1 Mk 2 only has just 11 mW at 300 ohms from its single ended output. Although I generally only use this amp/DAC for IEMs, it drives the HD 6XX as loud as I want it--though admittedly I have to turn the volume almost to max. At max volume, it's a little louder than I want but not unbearably loud. Is this the optimum amp or power output for the HD6XX? No way, but it gets pretty loud and sounds at least OK. My LG G8 with Quad DAC, pretty much the best audio you can get on a mainstream phone, is similar, though I need to get volume to 60-70% for reasonable volume and around 90% to be nice and loud. And while it is far better than almost all phones, I am confident that it is not outputting power anywhere near the level of the THX 789, even single ended.
> 
> According to Drop's specs, the THX 789's single ended output puts out _200_ mW at 300 ohms. This is plenty to drive the HD6XX on gain 2 and, as I noted above, at ear bleeding volume. It also sounds very good. I prefer the HD6XX a little more out of the Schiit Valhalla 2, a full on tube amp that pretty much exists to drive 300 ohm Sennheisers and Beyers; according to Schiit's specs it outputs 300 mW at 300 ohms and is generally considered a particularly good mid-fi pairing with the 6XX. But the 789 does a fine job with them single ended.


Thanks for your answer, that’s a helpful comparison as I actually own a Q1 Mk II and tried it with my HD6XX before and pretty much came to the same conclusion, although on some quieter music even the max on high gain still wasn’t enough.

I was just naturally concerned by some of the comments I read on the web saying that the THX 789 didn’t have enough power in SE.


----------



## Vvnz100

It depends on the source too: if your DAC output is less than 2 Vrms it’s quite different than another source with 3 Vrms!


----------



## bcaulf17

Vvnz100 said:


> It depends on the source too: if your DAC output is less than 2 Vrms it’s quite different than another source with 3 Vrms!


I hope saying this doesn’t mean i start getting pressured to spend money on an external DAC lol. I plan on plugging them straight into my 2019 MacBook Pro which is very clean. I just plug my Magni 3 into it directly and it makes no noise. With the volume maxed on the MacBook, I can get my HD6XX loud enough on low gain.


----------



## betula

bcaulf17 said:


> I hope saying this doesn’t mean i start getting pressured to spend money on an external DAC lol. I plan on plugging them straight into my 2019 MacBook Pro which is very clean. I just plug my Magni 3 into it directly and it makes no noise. With the volume maxed on the MacBook, I can get my HD6XX loud enough on low gain.


You need an external DAC, unfortunately there is no way around it. You will be surprised to hear the difference.


----------



## bcaulf17

betula said:


> You need an external DAC, unfortunately there is no way around it. You will be surprised to hear the difference.


Why? Because it won’t get loud enough through my MacBook?


----------



## betula

bcaulf17 said:


> Why? Because it won’t get loud enough through my MacBook?


No. Because no laptop dac can be compared even to the simplest dedicated dac like a Modi 3. A dedicated dac brings better dynamics, extension and other technicalities to the overall picture.


----------



## bcaulf17

betula said:


> No. Because no laptop dac can be compared even to the simplest dedicated dac like a Modi 3. A dedicated dac brings better dynamics, extension and other technicalities to the overall picture.


Is that so? I thought the purpose of a DAC was to eliminate noise coming out of crappy sources like less than ideal motherboards or sound cards.

I did some research on this sometime back and the conclusion seemed to be that the DAC chip in a lot of modern MacBook Pros are on par with most external DACs, and that DACs in general bring very little to the overall sonics.


----------



## betula

bcaulf17 said:


> Is that so? I thought the purpose of a DAC was to eliminate noise coming out of crappy sources like less than ideal motherboards or sound cards.
> 
> I did some research on this sometime back and the conclusion seemed to be that the DAC chip in a lot of modern MacBook Pros are on par with most external DACs, and that DACs in general bring very little to the overall sonics.


To my experience a dedicated DAC actually brings quite a lot of improvement. Lower noise floor is only one of them. Also, it is not just the DAC chip that matters but the whole implementation. 
When people say DAC doesn't matter as much as an amp they usually compare let's say a $500dac to a $1500 dac. Even MacBook built in dacs (just like some 'magical' LG phone dacs) are far from a performance of even an entry level dedicated dac.
I don't want to convince you about anything, if you are happy you are happy. I only recommend to try it yourself one day and then decide.


----------



## Marlowe (May 13, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> I hope saying this doesn’t mean i start getting pressured to spend money on an external DAC lol. I plan on plugging them straight into my 2019 MacBook Pro which is very clean. I just plug my Magni 3 into it directly and it makes no noise. With the volume maxed on the MacBook, I can get my HD6XX loud enough on low gain.





betula said:


> You need an external DAC, unfortunately there is no way around it. You will be surprised to hear the difference.


I'm not familiar with MacBooks, but unless it contains a DAC greatly superior than I've had in my Dell gaming laptops, I'd have to agree. I'm relatively new to the headphone hobby, but the single biggest upgrade I ever made was about three and a half years ago when I plugged the Schiit Fulla 2, a small $99 DAC/amp into my computer (my primary headphone at the time was a long since superseded Philips Fidelio X2 ). To use a cliched phrase, that truly was night and day; the improvement in sound quality was stunning. I've made many upgrades in headphones, DACs, and amps since, many of them quite nice, but no single one of them has made an improvement nearly as large as replacing the internal DAC and amp in my laptop with the little Fulla 2. (But like everyone who has gone down the rabbit hole of this hobby, I keep hoping. I am currently awaiting delivery of a Topping D70 from Drop, hopefully next week, and a Aeolus from ZMF (that was my stimulus payment!) in a month or two. Also hoping to get a Liquid Platinum from Monoprice next month if no unexpected health costs intervene (I'm retired on a fixed income). That should be endgame. At least for six months or so.)

Why do you resist an external DAC?  Cost, space? Those (and others) are certainly valid reasons and I don't know your particular situation. I've experienced people on forums superciliously lecturing me about my upgrade decisions and I didn't like it; I want to avoid doing that myself. But if you can do it, placing a $100 Schiit Modi 3 or similar product in your system is almost certainly the single biggest improvement you can make, except maybe buying a mega bucks summit-fi pair of cans. And maybe not even then.


----------



## bcaulf17 (May 13, 2020)

Marlowe said:


> I'm not familiar with MacBooks, but unless it contains a DAC greatly superior than I've had in my Dell gaming laptops, I'd have to agree. I'm relatively new to the headphone hobby, but the single biggest upgrade I ever made was about three and a half years ago when I plugged the Schiit Fulla 2, a small $99 DAC/amp into my computer (my primary headphone at the time was a long since superseded Philips Fidelio X2 ). To use a cliched phrase, that truly was night and day; the improvement in sound quality was stunning. I've made many upgrades in headphones, DACs, and amps since, many of them quite nice, but no single one of them has made an improvement nearly as large as replacing the internal DAC and amp in my laptop with the little Fulla 2. (But like everyone who has gone down the rabbit hole of this hobby, I keep hoping. I am currently awaiting delivery of a Topping D70 from Drop, hopefully next week, and a Aeolus from ZMF (that was my stimulus payment!) in a month or two. Also hoping to get a Liquid Platinum from Monoprice next month if no unexpected health costs intervene (I'm retired on a fixed income). That should be endgame. At least for six months or so.)
> 
> Why do you resist an external DAC?  Cost, space? Those (and others) are certainly valid reasons and I don't know your particular situation. I've experienced people on forums superciliously lecturing me about my upgrade decisions and I didn't like it; I want to avoid doing that myself. But if you can do it, placing a $100 Schiit Modi 3 or similar product in your system is almost certainly the single biggest improvement you can make, except maybe buying a mega bucks summit-fi pair of cans. And maybe not even then.


Well off of your first statement, yes, if you look it up on Google, the MacBook Pro’s DAC chip is superior to Dell gaming laptops and even most PCs. Those included the ones they used in 2014 MacBooks so I would guess the ones used in newer MacBooks are even better.

Thing is, I don’t have a tight budget, but I do like to save if I can and if I’m going to spend money in this hobby it needs to be something that makes a difference. Headphones make the most difference, and amps are important for power. Again, from research I did in the past, DACs made the least significant difference, and any difference they did make was mostly just cleaning up noise. Since I’m not hearing any noise, I’m thinking I don’t really need one. But I guess I’ll try to do some more research. Thanks for your advice!

If I go down that road I’ll probably return the THX 789 and get a Schiit stack. Part of the reason I got a THX was because I didn’t plan on getting a DAC so I didn’t mind the spending as much there.


----------



## mixman

bcaulf17 said:


> Well off of your first statement, yes, if you look it up on Google, the MacBook Pro’s DAC chip is superior to Dell gaming laptops and even most PCs. Those included the ones they used in 2014 MacBooks so I would guess the ones used in newer MacBooks are even better.
> 
> Thing is, I don’t have a tight budget, but if I’m going to spend money in this hobby it needs to be something that makes a difference. Headphones make the most difference, and amps are important for power. Again, from research I did in the past, DACs made the least significant difference, and any difference they did make was mostly just cleaning up noise. Since I’m not hearing any noise, I’m thinking I don’t really need one. But I guess I’ll try to do some more research. Thanks for your advice!


Here is the only advice I can offer you. In this hobby you just have to hear for yourself. You have to go to Canjams, headphone meets or retail stores and listen to see if YOU can hear the difference. This is and never will be a hobby you can read or YouTube your way into a purchase.


----------



## Marlowe

bcaulf17 said:


> Well off of your first statement, yes, if you look it up on Google, the MacBook Pro’s DAC chip is superior to Dell gaming laptops and even most PCs. Those included the ones they used in 2014 MacBooks so I would guess the ones used in newer MacBooks are even better.
> 
> Thing is, I don’t have a tight budget, but I do like to save if I can and if I’m going to spend money in this hobby it needs to be something that makes a difference. Headphones make the most difference, and amps are important for power. Again, from research I did in the past, DACs made the least significant difference, and any difference they did make was mostly just cleaning up noise. Since I’m not hearing any noise, I’m thinking I don’t really need one. But I guess I’ll try to do some more research. Thanks for your advice!
> 
> If I go down that road I’ll probably return the THX 789 and get a Schiit stack. Part of the reason I got a THX was because I didn’t plan on getting a DAC so I didn’t mind the spending as much there.


Well, as others have noted, do whatever makes you happy. But frankly, I think you have a very odd idea of what a DAC does and don't think that you will find many people here who agree with you. "Cleaning up noise" isn't the primary purpose of a DAC, though the various solutions to lowering the noise of a USB output is a big part of the implementation of a DAC.


----------



## bcaulf17 (May 13, 2020)

mixman said:


> Here is the only advice I can offer you. In this hobby you just have to hear for yourself. You have to go to Canjams, headphone meets or retail stores and listen to see if YOU can hear the difference. This is and never will be a hobby you can read or YouTube your way into a purchase.


Well yeah I get all that but reading other people’s impressions help to form a guideline and help someone figure out if they need to spend money on something new or an upgrade, etc. People ask for advice and post their findings on these enthusiast forums to share what they feel and hope it helps others. If I were to ask a question or read up on something I needed to know and the _general consensus _was “you probably don’t need this” then that’s the stance I’ll take. That said, I still take everything I read with a grain of salt and all that.


----------



## mixman

bcaulf17 said:


> Well yeah I get all that but reading other people’s impressions help to form a guideline and help someone figure out if they need to spend money on something new or an upgrade, etc. People ask for advice and post their findings on these enthusiast forums to share what they feel and hope it helps others. If I were to ask a question or read up on something I needed to know and the _general consensus _was “you probably don’t need this” then that’s the stance I’ll take.


Best thing to do is use others impressions to have you concentrate on what to listen to, according to what type of sound you are after.


----------



## betula

bcaulf17 said:


> Well yeah I get all that but reading other people’s impressions help to form a guideline and help someone figure out if they need to spend money on something new or an upgrade, etc. People ask for advice and post their findings on these enthusiast forums to share what they feel and hope it helps others. If I were to ask a question or read up on something I needed to know and the _general consensus _was “you probably don’t need this” then that’s the stance I’ll take.


Nobody on Head-Fi (or on any other audio forum) will say you are better of with your MacBook built in dac versus an entry level true audio dac like the Magni3 or even iFi Zen or Audioquest Cobalt. Dude, believe the audiophile crowd. Even a $2-300 DAC will bring vast improvements to your MacBook!


----------



## bcaulf17 (May 13, 2020)

betula said:


> Nobody on Head-Fi (or on any other audio forum) will say you are better of with your MacBook built in dac versus an entry level true audio dac like the Magni3 or even iFi Zen or Audioquest Cobalt. Dude, believe the audiophile crowd. Even a $2-300 DAC will bring vast improvements to your MacBook!


Maybe nobody on Head-Fi will say that. I read around other audio forums to get the best frame of reference I can. But how many people on here would be saying that to justify the money they’ve spent? What if it’s all a placebo effect?

I’m also not trying to discredit what you’re saying, or trying to tell anybody they’re right or wrong either. But if I can realistically hardly be able to tell the difference between two amps, I can’t imagine being able to tell the difference between two DACs.


----------



## betula (May 14, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> Maybe nobody on Head-Fi will say that. I read around other audio forums to get the best frame of reference I can. But how many people on here would be saying that to justify the money they’ve spent? What if it’s all a placebo effect?
> 
> I’m also not trying to discredit what you’re saying, or trying to tell anybody they’re right or wrong either. But if I can realistically hardly be able to tell the difference between two amps, I can’t imagine being able to tell the difference between two DACs.


Trust me, I can tell the difference quite confidentially between two amps. Nothing will help you my friend unless you audition yourself.


----------



## Marlowe

betula said:


> Trust me, I can tell the difference quite confidentially between two amps. Nothing will help you my friend unless you audition yourself. Try an entry level audiophile DAC versus your laptop and you will thank me and course me forever. Thank me for the sound improvements, course me for your budget.


Agree. As I've noted previously, there are perfectly valid personal reasons, like budget and space, to resist adding components to your system. They are valid for the particular person and I wouldn't argue. But to resist because you think that your built-in OEM laptop DAC provides as good sound quality as an audiophile DAC, even entry level ones, is just factually wrong. Trust me, it does not. It may be better than DACs in other laptops. but that is a different thing. I have a LG G8 with the Quad DAC and it certainly provides much better sound quality than almost all other phones. It works fairly well for mobile sound with IEMs. But "better than other phones" (and I'd bet that it's a lot better than the DAC in a MacBook) does not mean that it holds a candle to my desktop system.


----------



## bcaulf17 (May 13, 2020)

Marlowe said:


> Agree. As I've noted previously, there are perfectly valid personal reasons, like budget and space, to resist adding components to your system. They are valid for the particular person and I wouldn't argue. But to resist because you think that your built-in OEM laptop DAC provides as good sound quality as an audiophile DAC, even entry level ones, is just factually wrong. Trust me, it does not. It may be better than DACs in other laptops. but that is a different thing. I have a LG G8 with the Quad DAC and it certainly provides much better sound quality than almost all other phones. It works fairly well for mobile sound with IEMs. But "better than other phones" (and I'd bet that it's a lot better than the DAC in a MacBook) does not mean that it holds a candle to my desktop system.


Well I did say budget was sort of a concern. Not so much that my budget is low, but because I’d rather spend less of my money on source gear. I can certainly afford to spend that kind of money but I don’t really want to. If I keep the THX, then throw down an additional $100 on a DAC, that’s a lot of money for me to be throwing into something that will probably only make a small difference to my not-so-trained ears. If I get a DAC, then I’d rather return the THX and get a $200 Schiit stack. That’s not so bad. But then I would probably be advised against that because I’d be trading away a (probably) slightly better amp for a (probably) slightly worse amp.

Like I said already, based on the research I did before coming here, I was told a DAC wouldn’t be necessary because my internal DAC was good enough to wear it would make little, if any, difference. So I took that and went on my way to save myself $100 for rent.


----------



## PopZeus

The Aeolus, which needs around the same amount of power as the HD650, sounds just fine on SE out of the 789, though I have to turn it up on med gain or just switch to high gain. If going with the 789 and HD650, you'll probably want a DAC like the Denfrips Ares as a source.


----------



## newaudio46

Does it work well with the lcd4z? I’m also considering the lcd4


----------



## Tuneslover (May 14, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> Well I did say budget was sort of a concern. Not so much that my budget is low, but because I’d rather spend less of my money on source gear. I can certainly afford to spend that kind of money but I don’t really want to. If I keep the THX, then throw down an additional $100 on a DAC, that’s a lot of money for me to be throwing into something that will probably only make a small difference to my not-so-trained ears. If I get a DAC, then I’d rather return the THX and get a $200 Schiit stack. That’s not so bad. But then I would probably be advised against that because I’d be trading away a (probably) slightly better amp for a (probably) slightly worse amp.
> 
> Like I said already, based on the research I did before coming here, I was told a DAC wouldn’t be necessary because my internal DAC was good enough to wear it would make little, if any, difference. So I took that and went on my way to save myself $100 for rent.


My suggestion is as follows:

1. Buy a Schiit Modi 3 DAC for $99, it's a good DAC, especially for the price. Connect the Modi 3 to your MacBook (either via USB or Toslink).  Note Schiit doesn't include cables so you will need to have either the USB or Toslink cable.  Note:  I believe Schiit offers a 15 day return policy so you can return it if you don't hear an improvement in sound.

2.  If you decide to keep the Modi 3 (I'm guessing you will want to keep it) then you will be able to use this DAC with basically any amp.

3.  If you choose the Schiit Modi 3 route, I would suggest that you also buy the $99 Schiit Magni amp.  That way you can also hear how the complete Schiit stack (Modi 3 & Magni) sounds together.  If you already have and are using your 789, then you also have the opportunity to compare the Magni amp against the 789 amp.

4.  As long as you stay within Schiit's Return Policy (possibly with Massdrop for your 789 but you will need to check that out), return the pieces of equipment that aren't improving the sound to *YOU*.

I started out with the original Schiit stack 6 or more years ago.  While I was blown away how much better my music sounded coming out of my iMac, I eventually upgraded to better and more pricey equipment.  I agree with everyone that have replied to you that a separate standalone DAC is the way to go.  There are other inexpensive DAC's out there some better, some worse than the Modi 3 but in reality those differences are super small, especially at the $100 mark.


----------



## Tuneslover

Hello everyone!

I have the THX AAA 789 amp, as well as the Schiit Jotunheim.  Both amps are terrific with slightly different sound signatures and I have been comparing my music through both amps.

I'm not sure if I'm correctly connecting the 2 amps but there appears to be a pretty big volume difference between these 2 amps.  I have balanced cables coming out of my RME ADI-2 DAC into the Jotunheim, then I run balanced cables out of the Jotunheim's Balanced Pre Out's into the 789's balanced inputs.

I have the Jot on LOW gain and volume dial is only set at the 9 o'clock position and it's plenty loud.  However in order to volume match the 789 amp with the Jot, I need to put the 789 on HIGH gain (3rd position) and the 789's volume knob at the 12 o'clock position (naturally I have the 789 input set to Balanced).  To me that seems to be quite a large gain difference between these amps.  Am I not correctly connecting these 2 amps using balanced cables?  Do I need to boost the Jot's volume sufficiently to keep the 789's Gain and/or volume lower?

One other thing, I also run SE audio cables out of the RME DAC directly into the 789's SE inputs.  If however, I switch the 789's input from Balanced to SE, (while still using the 789 balanced output), the 789's volume increases pretty significantly and much closer to the Jot.

One final thing, when I simply run both Balanced & SE cables out of the RME DAC directly into the 789 (thereby removing the Jot completely out of the equation) I don't have any volume issues with the 789.  Continuing to listen with Balanced Headphones I can keep the 789's gain at setting 2 and the volume knob at 10 o'clock in order to get plenty of volume in either the SE input selection and even more volume when I switch the 789's input to Balanced.

So it seems like the Jotunheim's Balanced Pre Out's don't have enough gain feeding the 789's Balanced inputs.  When I take the Jot out of the equation the 789 doesn't seem as starved as it was when connected to the Jot.  The 789 sounds much fuller and better sounding when I omit the Jot's Balanced Pre Out's.  Perhaps I need to increase the volume on the Jot when using the Balanced Pre Out's to the 789 in order to give the 789 more gain?

Anyway, I was wondering if I'm messing up with the connectivity when using these 2 amps.  Wondering if anyone out there has any ideas or suggestions.


----------



## mixman

Tuneslover said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have the THX AAA 789 amp, as well as the Schiit Jotunheim.  Both amps are terrific with slightly different sound signatures and I have been comparing my music through both amps.
> 
> ...


Why don’t you run the Jot on like the SE inputs and the THX on the balanced and toggle between the two?


----------



## bcaulf17

Tuneslover said:


> 3.  If you choose the Schiit Modi 3 route, I would suggest that you also buy the $99 Schiit Magni amp.  That way you can also hear how the complete Schiit stack (Modi 3 & Magni) sounds together.  If you already have and are using your 789, then you also have the opportunity to compare the Magni amp against the 789 amp.



Okay. After taking into consideration what has been said here and doing more research, I will go with a stand-alone DAC. I will probably go with this option. I will return the 789 as soon as I receive it. A $200 total for the Schiit stack will be much better, and a stack of Schiit will be more appealing to me.

As nice as the THX seems, I think I was starting to get ahead of myself a little. For one thing, I don’t even have the Sundara yet. And, once this quarantine is over, I won’t be using my system much at all, so one of the newer Magnis with a Modi should suffice while staying in a more comfortable price point for me.


----------



## Tuneslover

bcaulf17 said:


> Okay. After taking into consideration what has been said here and doing more research, I will go with a stand-alone DAC. I will probably go with this option. I will return the 789 as soon as I receive it. A $200 total for the Schiit stack will be much better, and a stack of Schiit will be more appealing to me.
> 
> As nice as the THX seems, I think I was starting to get ahead of myself a little. For one thing, I don’t even have the Sundara yet. And, once this quarantine is over, I won’t be using my system much at all, so one of the newer Magnis with a Modi should suffice while staying in a more comfortable price point for me.


I sense you're new to this hobby so I think you are making a good decision going with a good starter setup that won't break the bank by going with the Schiit stack.

Find out from Massdrop if you can first audition the 789 before returning it and still get a full refund. This way you will be able to compare the Magni against the 789.  You might actually like the 789 better but then you will be faced with the question of value ($99 amp vs. $299 amp) and their respective sound qualities.  While both amps will get the job done for you, the 789 is clearly a better amp and a ridiculous bargain at $299.  All that I'm saying is, if possible, check out all of your options before making a final decision.

Good luck and enjoy your new toys and above all enjoy how a DAC and AMP improves the sound of your music.


----------



## bcaulf17 (May 14, 2020)

Tuneslover said:


> I sense you're new to this hobby so I think you are making a good decision going with a good starter setup that won't break the bank by going with the Schiit stack.
> 
> Find out from Massdrop if you can first audition the 789 before returning it and still get a full refund. This way you will be able to compare the Magni against the 789.  You might actually like the 789 better but then you will be faced with the question of value ($99 amp vs. $299 amp) and their respective sound qualities.  While both amps will get the job done for you, the 789 is clearly a better amp and a ridiculous bargain at $299.  All that I'm saying is, if possible, check out all of your options before making a final decision.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy your new toys and above all enjoy how a DAC and AMP improves the sound of your music.


I’ve been seriously in the hobby for a few years, I just never gave much thought to the source gear aspect and focused solely on just headphones, since that is the most important part, after all. I got a Magni 3 a couple years ago and honestly I could be happy with just that. But, I got the upgrade bug. Which is why I am on this thread now.

A big question now is, yeah the THX may be the better amp. But if I’m not going to be using it all that much, will it be worth it? Thats actually probably the biggest question I need to answer for myself.


----------



## Tuneslover

mixman said:


> Why don’t you run the Jot on like the SE inputs and the THX on the balanced and toggle between the two?


Yeah I'm beginning to think that the best way to compare the Jot with the 789 is to forget about the Jot's Balanced Pre Out's feeding the 789's Balanced inputs.  Instead compare both amps individually and separately.  It's just inconvenient unplugging and replugging cables between amps.  I didn't think that there would be such a big difference in gain between these 2 amps.

My goal was to be able to compare the Balanced performance out of both amps to see if I want to keep both amps or one over the other.  But you're right I could run one amp Balanced and the other SE, even though it's not an "apples to apples" comparison.


----------



## Tuneslover (May 14, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> I’ve been seriously in the hobby for a few years, I just never gave much thought to the source gear aspect and focused solely on just headphones, since that is the most important part, after all. I got a Magni 3 a couple years ago and honestly I could be happy with just that. But, I got the upgrade bug. Which is why I am on this thread now.
> 
> A big question now is, yeah the THX may be the better amp. But if I’m not going to be using it all that much, will it be worth it? Thats actually probably the biggest question I need to answer for myself.


That's why I'm suggesting that if possible compare the Magni with the 789 and pick the one that sounds the BEST to YOU.  Try not to focus on the price though, focus on the sound...which one gets your juices flowing the best.  If the 789 does it for you then stick with the 789 (it's only $200 more, which is nothing compared to what future upgrading will end up costing you...I know....so do the vast majority of head-fi'ers).  But if the difference in sound quality isn't worth the extra $200 then stick with the Magni because it's a very capable amp too.

It's too bad that you don't already have your new headphones (was it the Sundara's) to audition both amps because higher quality headphones benefit from better amps.  Careful though....don't fall too deeply into the rabbit hole....LOL!


----------



## bcaulf17

Tuneslover said:


> That's why I'm suggesting that if possible compare the Magni with the 789 and pick the one that sounds the BEST to YOU.  Try not to focus on the price though, focus on the sound...which one gets your juices flowing the best.  If the 789 does it for you then stick with the 789 (it's only $200 more, which is nothing compared to what future upgrading will end up costing you...I know....so do the vast majority of head-fi'ers).  But if the difference in sound quality isn't worth the extra $200 then stick with the Magni because it's a very capable amp too.
> 
> It's too bad that you don't already have your new headphones (was it the Sundara's) to audition both amps because higher quality headphones benefit from better amps.  Careful though....don't fall too deeply into the rabbit hole....LOL!


Yeah, thanks for your help. Actually, if I went with a DAC the Grace SDAC-B seems like it would pair perfectly with the THX 789...but it apparently doesn’t ship until 8/31!

In the meantime I have an HD6XX and an EMU Ebony...so nothing too crazy yet.


----------



## Kelt0912 (May 14, 2020)

I ordered the THX AAA 798 today. Can't wait to get it.


----------



## Kelt0912

[


bcaulf17 said:


> Yeah, thanks for your help. Actually, if I went with a DAC the Grace SDAC-B seems like it would pair perfectly with the THX 789...but it apparently doesn’t ship until 8/31!
> 
> In the meantime I have an HD6XX and an EMU Ebony...so nothing too crazy yet.


I want the Grace SDAC but it's only for pre order. I am going to be useing the Grace dac in the SDAC tube amp combo until I can get it or another good DAC with the 789.


----------



## bcaulf17

Kelt0912 said:


> [
> 
> I want the Grace SDAC but it's only for pre order. I am going to be useing the Grace dac in the SDAC tube amp combo until I can get it or another good DAC with the 789.


Might place a pre-order and then keep an eye on the classifieds until it ships. If I find a used one I can sell or return the new one.

One thing I need to do though is measure the space I’m placing these things. It’s 3 inches tall, so I can’t stack. My best bet is side by side but that might not even fit.


----------



## Kelt0912

bcaulf17 said:


> Might place a pre-order and then keep an eye on the classifieds until it ships. If I find a used one I can sell or return the new one.
> 
> One thing I need to do though is measure the space I’m placing these things. It’s 3 inches tall, so I can’t stack. My best bet is side by side but that might not even fit.


I am stacking mine under my computer monitors.


----------



## Kelt0912

bcaulf17 said:


> Yeah, thanks for your help. Actually, if I went with a DAC the Grace SDAC-B seems like it would pair perfectly with the THX 789...but it apparently doesn’t ship until 8/31!
> 
> In the meantime I have an HD6XX and an EMU Ebony...so nothing too crazy yet.


I just got the dac I been wanting but it was not on Drop for sale or any place I looked. Then today one just popped up on eBay for sale. I snagged it. It will go nicely with my THX 789 and match.  It's the Massdrop Airist Audio R-2R DAC.


----------



## bcaulf17

Kelt0912 said:


> I just got the dac I been wanting but it was not on Drop for sale or any place I looked. Then today one just popped up on eBay for sale. I snagged it. It will go nicely with my THX 789 and match.  It's the Massdrop Airist Audio R-2R DAC.


That’s great, congrats! I think I’m actually moving on to considering the Modi 3 or Topping D30 instead. Anyone have experience with both? I’ve read the Topping can sound a bit bright.


----------



## Kelt0912

bcaulf17 said:


> That’s great, congrats! I think I’m actually moving on to considering the Modi 3 or Topping D30 instead. Anyone have experience with both? I’ve read the Topping can sound a bit bright.


Bright is not a bad thing if it adds to the sound in a good way and your ok with it. It's why audio stuff is so cool. It really depends of each ones ears and likes. Topping makes great amp/dac. I have heard the topping dac but not the Modi 3.


----------



## bcaulf17

Kelt0912 said:


> Bright is not a bad thing if it adds to the sound in a good way and your ok with it. It's why audio stuff is so cool. It really depends of each ones ears and likes. Topping makes great amp/dac. I have heard the topping dac but not the Modi 3.


Apparently a new Topping DAC was just released (literally a few months ago) called E30, that measures better than the D50, has a remote and screen and only costs about $130. I don’t think it has a wide release in the US yet as it’s not even on Amazon but it’s getting acclaim on ASR.


----------



## Marlowe (May 15, 2020)

bcaulf17 said:


> Apparently a new Topping DAC [is] getting acclaim on ASR.


To quote a very old British Invasion song , the cultists on ASR are "a must to avoid." They don't believe that DACs are bright. They don't believe that DACs are warm. They don't believe DACs are more or less detailed. They don't believe that DACs sound different. They don't even publish DAC reviews, though their High Priest claims that they do, since they don't listen to them. They only worship at the altar of the distortion numbers returned by test tones and their testing gear.


----------



## Kelt0912 (May 15, 2020)

Marlowe said:


> To quote a very old British Invasion song , the cultists on ASR are "a must to avoid." They don't believe that DACs are bright. They don't believe that DACs are warm. They don't believe DACs are more or less detailed. They don't believe that DACs sound different. They don't even publish DAC reviews, though their High Priest claims that they do, since they don't listen to them. They only worship at the altar of the distortion numbers returned by test tones and their testing gear.


Numbers do not tell the entire story. Numbers are great but you can't just judge tec etc just off numbers. I like a Dac etc that have a character. Being perfect not even the THX AAA 789 is not for a amp.  They hated the dac I just got. The Massdrop Airist Audio R-2R DAC they hated. I read other reviews and watched vids and read what other people posted that have them.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

bcaulf17 said:


> Apparently a new Topping DAC was just released (literally a few months ago) called E30, that measures better than the D50, has a remote and screen and only costs about $130. I don’t think it has a wide release in the US yet as it’s not even on Amazon but it’s getting acclaim on ASR.



I own it. It’s a very good DAC. I love it with my 789.


----------



## bcaulf17

Marlowe said:


> To quote a very old British Invasion song , the cultists on ASR are "a must to avoid." They don't believe that DACs are bright. They don't believe that DACs are warm. They don't believe DACs are more or less detailed. They don't believe that DACs sound different. They don't even publish DAC reviews, though their High Priest claims that they do, since they don't listen to them. They only worship at the altar of the distortion numbers returned by test tones and their testing gear.


By acclaim, I mean people just genuinely seem to like the product. It’s affordable, has a couple decent features, probably serves its purpose. All I need to know is that the product itself isn’t crap and it appears to be a solid new contender in its price bracket. But it’s the only place I can find information on it.


----------



## bcaulf17

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I own it. It’s a very good DAC. I love it with my 789.


Good to know, thank you!


----------



## ActuallySparky

bcaulf17 said:


> Apparently a new Topping DAC was just released (literally a few months ago) called E30, that measures better than the D50, has a remote and screen and only costs about $130. I don’t think it has a wide release in the US yet as it’s not even on Amazon but it’s getting acclaim on ASR.


Pardon my newb question, but ASR? What's that?


----------



## bcaulf17

ActuallySparky said:


> Pardon my newb question, but ASR? What's that?


Audiosciencereview


----------



## Kelt0912

bcaulf17 said:


> Audiosciencereview


O great a bunch of super audio nerds complaining about sound waves and tec etc and and... O wait..... Sounds like us... lol


----------



## bcaulf17

Kelt0912 said:


> O great a bunch of super audio nerds complaining about sound waves and tec etc and and... O wait..... Sounds like us... lol


Haha. I mainly go there to check something I’m interested in because it seems to have the most information on source gear and advises if any device has any sort of functionality issues claimed by users. I’d normally get this info from HeadFi first but there isn’t a thread on the E30.


----------



## Krutsch

Marlowe said:


> To quote a very old British Invasion song , the cultists on ASR are "a must to avoid." They don't believe that DACs are bright. They don't believe that DACs are warm. They don't believe DACs are more or less detailed. They don't believe that DACs sound different. They don't even publish DAC reviews, though their High Priest claims that they do, since they don't listen to them. *They only worship at the altar of the distortion numbers returned by test tones and their testing gear.*



ASR is a data point worth looking at, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Amir takes the time publish measurements and he goes well beyond distortion. He also looks at jitter, channel imbalance, and Vrms output vs. the vendor's published specs.

To be honest, some highly regarded (and expensive) vendors clearly don't mind the details, when they are engineering and testing their products. I am surprised, for example, that very expensive DACs and amps can be so far off on things like channel imbalance. I am glad that ASR takes the time to call these vendors out for shoddy workmanship.

But then there are weird listening tests, where ASR rants about amazing detail, due to absurdly low distortion specs, all while listening with a pair of HD-650s which I think we can all agree are not renowned for low distortion and high detail.


----------



## Marlowe (May 17, 2020)

Krutsch said:


> ASR is a data point worth looking at, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> Amir takes the time publish measurements and he goes well beyond distortion. He also looks at jitter, channel imbalance, and Vrms output vs. the vendor's published specs.
> 
> ...


Actually, I agree. Although I stand by my observation that the really fervent ASR fans are essentially cultists, there is some useful data on ASR and I admit to glancing at it. However it does drive me nuts that they call their DAC articles "reviews" when they are merely a collection of test results collected by running test tones through the DAC. They rarely even listen to the DACs they "review," at least not for the purpose of their articles, whether with a 650 or a Focal Utopia.

BTW, for those a little, ahem, younger than I am, the song I referenced in my post was A Must to Avoid by Manchester's Herman's Hermits, which reached the top ten on both sides of the Atlantic at the very end of 1965. I was 12.


----------



## Kelt0912

bcaulf17 said:


> Haha. I mainly go there to check something I’m interested in because it seems to have the most information on source gear and advises if any device has any sort of functionality issues claimed by users. I’d normally get this info from HeadFi first but there isn’t a thread on the E30.


I like numbers but I will try out and hear any AMP or DAC. If they sound great numbers to me really do not matter. I have heard both sides to the DAC I just got the Airist Audio R-2R DAC. The number guys hated it but the audio guys liked it. The few you tube reviews on it they liked it.


----------



## Amish (May 18, 2020)

I've avoided this thread for a long time now but I own a Monoprice THX AAA and I have to say it is a fantastic amp. I owned the Bryston BHA-1 and sold it to a member here at Head-Fi....This is as good, sonically, without a doubt. As good and for a fraction of the price.


----------



## n3gativ3

Got my 789 in about a week ago, and I really enjoy it, a very nice upgrade from the Magni I had before

very pleased


----------



## Kelt0912

n3gativ3 said:


> Got my 789 in about a week ago, and I really enjoy it, a very nice upgrade from the Magni I had before
> 
> very pleased


Yes I also like the THX 789. What DAC do you have going with it? This is my set up. I have the THX 789 and the Airist R2R DAC.


----------



## n3gativ3

Kelt0912 said:


> Yes I also like the THX 789. What DAC do you have going with it? This is my set up. I have the THX 789 and the Airist R2R DAC.




I have got a topping D70 to go with my 789

pretty overkill tbh but it looks good and has balanced outputs and is a similar size to the 789, so it checked all the boxes


----------



## Kelt0912

n3gativ3 said:


> I have got a topping D70 to go with my 789
> 
> pretty overkill tbh but it looks good and has balanced outputs and is a similar size to the 789, so it checked all the boxes


I wish the R2R DAC was balanced. Never had anything from Topping.


----------



## DrueB

I just purchased the 789 hoping to mate it directly to my phono preamp to replace using the headphone jack on the front of my AV Preamp Processor.  Hoping for better sound quality and volume.  Has anyone one done this?


----------



## eeagle

Kelt0912 said:


> I wish the R2R DAC was balanced. Never had anything from Topping.


Realize that the THX AAA 789 is not balanced I/O so a balanced DAC makes little difference.  I use the Drop x Airist Audio R-2R DAC with the 789 and am very happy with the combo.


----------



## Vapin Wabbit

So, this may have been answered already, but I plan on getting a hd800 and currently have a pair of ether flow 1.1 open. Would the 789 be my best pick for my eventual hd800 or perhaps something like the monolith liquid platinum?


----------



## adeadcrab

The 789 is not bad at all, I have heard the benchmark HPA4 is just that little bit better, but it's many times the price. I'm happy with 789 for an end game solid state amp


----------



## hmscott (Jun 16, 2020)

There is a new Topping A90 headphone amp out, here's a comparison posted between the HPA4 / 789 / A90:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-a90.927412/post-15679486

Soundnews also references their previous comparison video between those headphone amps in that video review, and their Youtube Details has pointers to their written reviews.
https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-review-resetting-the-trend/
https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/he...x-789-vs-benchmark-hpa4-battle-of-the-thx-es/


----------



## forge457

is the 6watt output constaint in balanced mode for the  DROP + THX AAA™ 789 LINEAR AMPLIFIER or is it less at lower gains to anyone who know what the power level output is at Gain: 0.66x , 2.0x  i want to give my m570 cans sound good power an sound 



but not blow them out i plan to put a Peavey PV215EQ Graphic Equalizer between it an my DROP + GRACE DESIGN STANDARD DAC BALANCED i really hate pc software eq's 



just never quite right an can i add the amp an dac to the cart at the same time


----------



## Amish

@forge457 No it is not 6 watts constant.


----------



## Degree

Just to be sure, if I use balanced between the modius and 789 I should only use balanced XLR headphone cable right?
I wouldn't be able to use the SE inputs?


----------



## wht

Degree said:


> Just to be sure, if I use balanced between the modius and 789 I should only use balanced XLR headphone cable right?
> I wouldn't be able to use the SE inputs?



You can still use the SE inputs.


----------



## Degree

wht said:


> You can still use the SE inputs.



Appreciate it!


----------



## KCXT

This thing really brings out the best in my ATH-A900Xs. I do often dig the ultra-precise sounds that the 789 produces with my DT-1990s but with the way it tightens the low end on my 900Xs I get very close to my ideal "balanced-but-with-bass" sound signature. There is a striking difference in clarity when going between the 789 and my no-jumpers Emotiva A-100 that I attribute largely to the 220-ohm output impedance.

Fed by the Quad DAC in my LG V30 and G8 I found the Liquid Spark to be at least 85% of the 789's performance on most material, with some songs basically indistinguishable, but the separation on the 789 is stellar as well.


----------



## yeboyi

Is 3.5mm and 6.35mm outputs exact same in this amp ? or 3.5mm is for sensitive iems ?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jul 29, 2020)

My listening experience with THX 789 and schiit Mjopnir 2. Hopes it helps others decide and understand the amp.

I am currently using Mjolnir 2 and THX-789. Both feeding from Gungnir Multibit using XLR cable. I actually do enjoy the 789 as it is a good complement with the Mjolnir 2. Both offered a different signature. THX 789 is slightly brighter and more sterile, while Mjolnir provided more bass slam, warmth and vocals are one step closer to me. Both amp have great deapth in the stage.

Switch between two amps with such a different signature actually let me understand my music to a better degree. A leaner tone on the 789 allowed me to analyze the track more easily, then I swtich back for MJ2 for a more relaxed listening experience and picking up the same amount of detail. I didntI don't see the THX 789 performing poorly in particular areas, instead, I see it as a matter of personal preference and particular fuction. However, for casual listening I generally like to pair the THX789 with warmer headphones and those with copper cable (third party cable). While pairing the Mjolnir 2 with any headphone and both copper and silver cable.

THX789 provided a good amount of detail and a good amount of separation, I don't really feel especially lacking in any areas compared to MJ2, maybe only in the bass slam. 789 is a very decent amp at it's price together with other Schiit alternatives. 789 is definitely a step-up for the headphone amp ecosystem. With that said , I do know that both 789 and MJ2 are not perfect natural amps. Both amps have different fuction and I will not go into which amp bests the other.

Headphone used: Utopia, HE1000, Clear, HD6xx
I use the THX 789 especially for headphones terminated to 6.3 single-ended output because the single-ended output on the Mjolnir 2 sounded a bit compressed, lack in width.


----------



## yeboyi

Used with Topping E30 and Ananda. My impressions:
Sounds smooth without rolled off treble. Grain and harshness free.
Have nice soundstage depth.
Laidback, rich and even/fair presentation of lows-mids-highs.
More detailed but not because of aggressiveness, more detailed because of even presentation and lack of harshness/glare/grain.
Lacks the bass impact/slam.

The box is much more beautiful than it looks on the pictures. It looks more delicate in person. Have 3.5, 6.35 and xlr output with a great gain and volume knob. Very nice box. I think it can work better with a balanced dac with good slam capabilities. Maybe Modius ?


----------



## mixman

Gavin C4 said:


> My listening experience with THX 789 and schiit Mjopnir 2. Hopes it helps others decide and understand the amp.
> 
> I am currently using Mjolnir 2 and THX-789. Both feeding from Gungnir Multibit using XLR cable. I actually do enjoy the 789 as it is a good complement with the Mjolnir 2. Both offered a different signature. THX 789 is slightly brighter and more sterile, while Mjolnir provided more bass slam, warmth and vocals are one step closer to me. Both amp have great deapth in the stage.
> 
> ...


So If I were looking for a purely better amp as far a detail and transparency, then I should choose something other than the MJ2? It sounds like you are saying they are both on par with each other, just diiferent tonalities?


----------



## jbarrentine

Gavin C4 said:


> My listening experience with THX 789 and schiit Mjopnir 2. Hopes it helps others decide and understand the amp.



You forgot the best part: 
THX AAA 789 - $299
Mjolnir 2 - $849


----------



## bcaulf17 (Aug 1, 2020)

yeboyi said:


> Used with Topping E30 and Ananda. My impressions:
> Sounds smooth without rolled off treble. Grain and harshness free.
> Have nice soundstage depth.
> Laidback, rich and even/fair presentation of lows-mids-highs.
> ...


This is my same setup! I’m glad I discovered the E30 when I did because it was still fairly new at the time with not much discussion on it. Took the shot and ordered from Apos (excellent company by the way) and find it to go really well with the 789 in terms of looks (all black metal with a screen) and it’s also probably the best budget DAC you can get right now when factoring performance, features and build.

Same goes for the THX 789. I’ll admit I’m honestly not the best at telling differences between amps, I’m not even sure if I can, but it does what it’s supposed to do. Clear, with impact and decent weight, no noise and no bulls*** . Also love the design and build, volume knob feels great, all the features you need. I think it’s a great buy especially now that it’s $300.

Very happy with my setup, though I am quite curious about the L30 coming out...it could be the killer of all budget options, possibly.


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Aug 5, 2020)

Guys, I heard there are some units of THX AAA 789 (Even 887) that have a volume pot problem, while you are changing the volume it gets a scratchy noise on a side, mine started to do this a month ago on right side. I was going to sell this at the best price in Europe because i need money, but i think lot of possible interest would be gone is this. I hear is fixable in some ways, do you know how? Do you also experienced this?


----------



## gooeyrich

KCXT said:


> This thing really brings out the best in my ATH-A900Xs. I do often dig the ultra-precise sounds that the 789 produces with my DT-1990s but with the way it tightens the low end on my 900Xs I get very close to my ideal "balanced-but-with-bass" sound signature. There is a striking difference in clarity when going between the 789 and my no-jumpers Emotiva A-100 that I attribute largely to the 220-ohm output impedance.
> 
> Fed by the Quad DAC in my LG V30 and G8 I found the Liquid Spark to be at least 85% of the 789's performance on most material, with some songs basically indistinguishable, but the separation on the 789 is stellar as well.



Which gives better clarity, the 789 or Emotiva?


----------



## KCXT

gooeyrich said:


> Which gives better clarity, the 789 or Emotiva?



By 'clarity' I assume you are referring to precise detail, and for that I'd say the 789 for most headphones since the Emotiva's 220-ohm unjumpered output gives a tubey response, fattening the low-end. It's not like the Emotiva lacks detail by any means but just a different vibe than the 789.

I've never tried it with the jumpers in so can't comment about that.


----------



## yeboyi

Viper Necklampy said:


> Guys, I heard there are some units of THX AAA 789 (Even 887) that have a volume pot problem, while you are changing the volume it gets a scratchy noise on a side, mine started to do this a month ago on right side. I was going to sell this at the best price in Europe because i need money, but i think lot of possible interest would be gone is this. I hear is fixable in some ways, do you know how? Do you also experienced this?


When it starts to happen ? Mine is new.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

yeboyi said:


> When it starts to happen ? Mine is new.


A month ago started, so after 6-7 months.. I think i read same happenings on hifiguides..


----------



## yeboyi

What is the power output difference between gains ? Anyone know ?


----------



## Gavin C4

Ultra high price to performanc setup. This setup could really save you a tone of time going through different amps or headphones, when compared to my days with the HD650 like ten years ago.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Dayum, would like to know too. Because with M1060 on gain 1 sounded bad, restricted too. With Gain 2 it opened up, and sounded much better, finally good. But with gain 3 even better, felt even more open and spacious. All with XLR cable.. So 6 watts. 
An expert could tell us if gain control even if it output more power (Power headroom)? Or lower the gain, the better? But still, that is what i hear now with M1060, and back then with HE1000V2 and HE1000se, i feel like higher gain=more power, spaciousness, and clarity.


----------



## OPiiPO

Kelt0912 said:


> Yes I also like the THX 789. What DAC do you have going with it? This is my set up. I have the THX 789 and the Airist R2R DAC.



Hi,

Which one do you prefer, Cavali Tube Hybrid or the THX? I got the Airist R2R, which is an amazing DAC.

Kind regards,


----------



## Amish

OPiiPO said:


> Hi,
> 
> Which one do you prefer, Cavali Tube Hybrid or the THX? I got the Airist R2R, which is an amazing DAC.
> 
> Kind regards,



You didn't ask me but I prefer the 789 over the Cavali tube, every day of the week. This coming from a tube guy.


----------



## Kelt0912 (Aug 25, 2020)

Amish said:


> You didn't ask me but I prefer the 789 over the Cavali tube, every day of the week. This coming from a tube guy.



I just got the Audio Technica ATH-AWKT headphones. My THX 789 made them sound flat and held back. I went from the computer to my Airist R2-R DAC then to my CTH-SDAC and booooom the headphones came to life. I love the THX 789 but some times it's not ment for some headphones. Now my Eather CX headphones 



OPiiPO said:


> Hi,
> 
> Which one do you prefer, Cavali Tube Hybrid or the THX? I got the Airist R2R, which is an amazing DAC.
> 
> Kind regards,



I love my Airist R2-R DAC. When you spend near 2k on good headphones to only find out the older tube amp sounds way better than the THX 789. The THX does a great job but it lacks any character what so every. It's so precise and neutral it's crazy. Like night and day diff. The tube just adds that little warm wow the headphones needed. It was a WOW moment.


----------



## Amish

Kelt0912 said:


> I just got the Audio Technica ATH-AWKT headphones. My THX 789 made them sound flat and held back. I went from the computer to my Airist R2-R DAC then to my CTH-SDAC and booooom the headphones came to life. I love the THX 789 but some times it's not ment for some headphones. Now my Eather CX headphones
> 
> 
> 
> I love my Airist R2-R DAC. When you spend near 2k on good headphones to only find out the older tube amp sounds way better than the THX 789. The THX does a great job but it lacks any character what so every. It's so precise and neutral it's crazy. Like night and day diff. The tube just adds that little warm wow the headphones needed. It was a WOW moment.



I love tube amps. I have owned and sold many of them. I totally agree that depending on the headphone a tube amp can really be the better choice but I think that really comes down to someones ear for music. To me a tube amp really brings some headphones to life, while others not so much. But what sounds good to me might not to you. We are each different so anything you or I say should be taken with a grain of salt. 

The best thing to do is test the equipment yourself. Go to a meet, a shop, a friend or use your money to figure it all out. 

The Cavalli tube amp is nice but I found it to be too noisy even for a tube amp. IMO it is not a good amp and I would rather spend my money elsewhere. The 789 is a fine amp, gets great results when benched and will work well for many headphones, not to mention the power on tap is nice. Might not be the best for every headphone but for the money it is a solid amp and hits way above it's price point. 

For the record I do not own either of these amps but I have tried them both. I liked the 789 enough to buy the Monoprice THX AAA 887 which when paired with all my headphones, really shines. Comparing the AAA 887 to my old BHA-1, I'd take the 887 every time based on power and cost. SQ wise they are damn near the same to my ears but the 887 is so much cheaper. It really is shocking the ability of these amps, their performance at this price point is fantastic. 

Again, your ears and my ears might not agree. 

Unrelated to the 789 amp that this thread is about: 

I do like tubes though! I sold this one (twice because I bought it twice and I'm thinking about buying another one) but IMO if money is an issue and you want a quality tube amp then the Garage1217 project Ember is the best bang for buck around. This amp puts out loads of power, is a tube rollers dream and is just a wonderful amp to listen to and all for under $400.







I currently own 4 tube amps, two e-stat, and two SS headphone amps. Here are a couple of amps and my loved Pagoda which is a R2R DAC.


----------



## Tuneslover

Amish said:


> I love tube amps. I have owned and sold many of them. I totally agree that depending on the headphone a tube amp can really be the better choice but I think that really comes down to someones ear for music. To me a tube amp really brings some headphones to life, while others not so much. But what sounds good to me might not to you. We are each different so anything you or I say should be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> The best thing to do is test the equipment yourself. Go to a meet, a shop, a friend or use your money to figure it all out.
> 
> ...


Nice equipment!

I totally agree with you that the Project Ember is one hell of a terrific hybrid amp.


----------



## OPiiPO

Amish said:


> I love tube amps. I have owned and sold many of them. I totally agree that depending on the headphone a tube amp can really be the better choice but I think that really comes down to someones ear for music. To me a tube amp really brings some headphones to life, while others not so much. But what sounds good to me might not to you. We are each different so anything you or I say should be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> The best thing to do is test the equipment yourself. Go to a meet, a shop, a friend or use your money to figure it all out.
> 
> ...


Nice gear


----------



## OPiiPO (Aug 26, 2020)

Amish said:


> You didn't ask me but I prefer the 789 over the Cavali tube, every day of the week. This coming from a tube guy.


+Kelt0912 - thanks for your comments!


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Has anyone tried how silver cables pair with THX aaa 789?
I tried many months ago with He1000V2 with full silver Litz and rhodium plated connectors XLR, Silver RCA Gold plated as interconnect, and an analitical optical cable, like 700€ of cables, so maybe not having a hint of gold or copper was doing it's changing on sound? 
But when i switched to a 5€ coppet rca i heard some details that we're kinda 'lost' in silver uber-expensive wires.. For example, on the track 'Crescendolls' by Daft Punk, i remember i heard noticeably more the details of the sounds that started on minute 3:18, the flashy ones that falls from above to right/left sides.. Would like to hear your thinking about silver cable or similiar sparkly sounding material, vs usual copper/gold! I would like to get 'em back, but maybe 789 is not ideal for Silver?


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 29, 2020)

OPiiPO said:


> Hi,
> 
> Which one do you prefer, Cavali Tube Hybrid or the THX? I got the Airist R2R, which is an amazing DAC.
> 
> Kind regards,



The CTH does a much more artful job of handling the high frequencies and has a more engaging sound.  Whether this matters or not depends on your headphones; if you have a headphone that is not too revealing on the top end, it won't matter too much . But if you have something like HD8xx/HD7xx like myself which is extremely revealing, any of the Cavalli amps will blow a hole in the side of the THX.  I would even take the $109 liquid spark over the THX for more revealing headphones.  For something like HD6XX it won't matter as much since the treble is rolled off.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Interesting.. I wonder if someone else's thinks that CTH do present treble better, comparing
Because i paired with HE1000V2 and was doing wonders on treble size, like, really. So good that all i wanted to do was listening to it instead to find a job, hence needed to sell it because was out of pocket 
And i love treble. But depends also a lot of the dac, and the rest of the system! Strange to read the Cavalli Tube Hybrid Beats the THX 789 analitical yet so smooty treble.. I would say as i own the 789 by a year that some amps present treble more, like jds atom for example, but it's edgy... But, that's doesn't reveal so much about treble quality, vs rest of the frequencies..


----------



## yeboyi

I have a mixed feelings about this amp. Using them for about 2 months. My description:

Fast transients, speedy clean sound. Good agility. It makes headphone sound technically better.
Weak dynamics, soft and lean sound. Transparent agile bass but less weight and impact.
A bit deeper, spread out airy soundstage.
Cold and sterile sound. Not much musicality.
Definition, resolution is good, analytical sound.

This might be better match for Sennheiser 6x0 variants and LCD 2C. Not good for Ananda. Ananda already have this signature.

Very good amp for what it is. It should work better with sloppy headphones.


----------



## bcaulf17

yeboyi said:


> I have a mixed feelings about this amp. Using them for about 2 months. My description:
> 
> Fast transients, speedy clean sound. Good agility. It makes headphone sound technically better.
> Weak dynamics, soft and lean sound. Transparent agile bass but less weight and impact.
> ...


I think the Asgard 3 is supposed to be a little warmer and fuller sounding. More round edges and less sharp in sound, at the expense of being a little less detailed. Although you lose some of the features of the 789 like the multiple ports, and the power switch is on the back of the Asgard.


----------



## yeboyi

bcaulf17 said:


> I think the Asgard 3 is supposed to be a little warmer and fuller sounding. More round edges and less sharp in sound, at the expense of being a little less detailed. Although you lose some of the features of the 789 like the multiple ports, and the power switch is on the back of the Asgard.


Yes. Asgard 3 is in my radar but so far my impression is that it sounds better on high gain mode. Low gain mode have lots of negative feedback and sounds more like opamp based sterile amps. I would buy Asgard 3 if i had less sensitive headphone. Ananda is very sensitive. High gain is 15.6 db on Asgard 3. I'm using 0db gain with THX 789.

Latest Ifi Zen Can is also in my radar. It's discrete class a amp just like Asgard 3 but no reliable reviews so far.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

yeboyi said:


> I have a mixed feelings about this amp. Using them for about 2 months. My description:
> 
> Fast transients, speedy clean sound. Good agility. It makes headphone sound technically better.
> Weak dynamics, soft and lean sound. Transparent agile bass but less weight and impact.
> ...


Yeah.. It works wonder with M1060C with a balanced silver plated cable. Treble is kinda lowered on this amp, or makes bass and mids/vocals bump a little more, hence i find with M1060c they push each other on their strong point. Less with M1060 which is thinner sounding.. Compared to Atom and SP200 with 5 headphones, mids on thx aaa 789 are really detailed, 6W on balanced are an added treat. 
I think high gains makes sound more free/airy, powerful, wide and effortless. May i be wrong? I would like to know. It should be like this on every headphone, even if very sensitive.


----------



## KingKrush

I took delivery of this 789 amp this morning. Incredibly basic setup: Asus U7 DAC (Cirrus Logic CS4398) + AAA 789 + Ora GQ headphones.

Can't believe what a difference it has made. I mostly listen to classical music and it's mindblowing (to my ears at least) how good things sound.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Sep 30, 2020)

The THX 789 could really put up a good fight against a higher-end amplifier. The THX 789 may not have the best depth and sound stage in the world, or the best dynamics. It has a minimum amount of coloration but some pairing may be too clean for one's taste. After all I really don't have much to complain about it.

It does not matter if you believe in the better power cable or power regenerator because it uses a power brick.  You simply do not have to worry about upgrading your power components. 789 sounded great out of the box and you do not have to worry about it. Vigorously tested by the ears of Head-fiers here and proven to works well with a wide range of headphones. All black and simple minimalist outlook. Most importantly , it sounded well above its price range.


----------



## plsvn (Oct 3, 2020)

has anyone tried using a non stock PS with this amp?

I tried various: switching, linear, regulated, non regulated but... all I get with those is silence or just some vary faint distorted sound when I turn volume to max :-/

all of the PSs I tried do, obviously, meet original's specs and all of them are working fine with other equipments
also tried a bunch of DC cords but... no joy

as soon as I revert to the original PS everything's fine



oh... btw... original PS doesn't show on Xing Yuan's catalogue
may it be custom made and have some "chip" the amplifier checks for?


----------



## Brahmsian (Oct 4, 2020)

THX 789 and HE 560 are a superb pairing. I especially love the increased energy that it brings to an orchestra.

The only problem with this set up is that there is ground loop hum when I connect the ESP 95X to the SDACB at the same time that the 789 is connected. Otherwise would have been perfect. Only a minor hassle though.


Solid little midfi headphone system. I’m only waiting on the balanced Cardas cable for the 560.


----------



## adeadcrab

Brahmsian said:


> THX 789 and HE 560 are a superb pairing. I especially love the increased energy that it brings to an orchestra.
> 
> The only problem with this set up is that there is ground loop hum when I connect the ESP 95X to the SDACB at the same time that the 789 is connected. Otherwise would have been perfect. Only a minor hassle though....



The ESP/950(X) energiser picks up electrical hum from around it. In my case it was a motorized desk. Play around and see what the energiser is picking up. You can probably eliminate that hum somehow.


----------



## kevinaom

I have the AAA 789 and have loved it for the better part of 8 months now.  I use either an ipad or iphone. I use Amazon HD Music, run from either the iphone or the ipad through the apple camera attachment which bypasses the DAC on the normal iPhone / iPad cord.  I then hook to a Dragon Fly Cobalt for the DAC and from there to the 789.  Seems to work well and love it.  Of course, i have not tried everything else either.  Oh, yeah, use the Sennheiser HD650. 

Would love comments.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Amish said:


> @forge457 No it is not 6 watts constant.


 What this means, it's that it don't push full 6W of power with his headroom in low or medium gain? So to have full power you need to keep it high gain, to get more headroom. ?


----------



## Hinomotocho

I'm considering the THX as my budget probably won't stretch to the TA-ZH1ES or other high end recommended amp(dacs). 
I've seen a comment saying that the MDR-Z1R don't pair well with this amp as it boosted the mids too much(?). Does anyone else use the MDR-Z1R to confirm they don't go well together? Synergy can be a tricky thing and there is not a lot of info for lower priced amps for the Z1R in all my searches.


----------



## yeboyi

Hinomotocho said:


> I'm considering the THX as my budget probably won't stretch to the TA-ZH1ES or other high end recommended amp(dacs).
> I've seen a comment saying that the MDR-Z1R don't pair well with this amp as it boosted the mids too much(?). Does anyone else use the MDR-Z1R to confirm they don't go well together? Synergy can be a tricky thing and there is not a lot of info for lower priced amps for the Z1R in all my searches.


Can't comment on that but i think 789 goes well with bassy headphones. It sounds lighter and quicker.


----------



## realmccoy

does this amp pairs well with beyers dt 1990 pro?


----------



## yeboyi

realmccoy said:


> does this amp pairs well with beyers dt 1990 pro?


Have used them both but haven't used them together. 1990 has lots of punchy high bass but it's always fast and dynamic headphone. It can back up it's boosted bass. I think 789 can make it less fatiguing without rolling of the treble. 789 have some kind of deeper, distant soundstage and weaker dynamics(less punchy but more transparent). So if 1990 is overwhelming to you (right in your face and punchy) it can help.

I think it's smooth and airy in the highs but there is no roll off. 789 is not warm amp.


----------



## realmccoy

yeboyi said:


> Have used them both but haven't used them together. 1990 has lots of punchy high bass but it's always fast and dynamic headphone. It can back up it's boosted bass. I think 789 can make it less fatiguing without rolling of the treble. 789 have some kind of deeper, distant soundstage and weaker dynamics(less punchy but more transparent). So if 1990 is overwhelming to you (right in your face and punchy) it can help.
> 
> I think it's smooth and airy in the highs but there is no roll off. 789 is not warm amp.


Have you tried Violectric V280? I am looking for an amp that can pair well with dt1990 and I may consider to get the senns hd660s, ht800s or hifiman arya in the future


----------



## KCXT (Oct 9, 2020)

Viper Necklampy said:


> What this means, it's that it don't push full 6W of power with his headroom in low or medium gain? So to have full power you need to keep it high gain, to get more headroom. ?



The power sent by any amplifier will only be enough to achieve the volume required. As a very basic example, you can have an amplifier capable of sending 6 watts at a given impedance but if you're using headphones at that impedance with a sensitivity of 93 decibels at 1 mW and you're listening at 93 decibels, the amplifier will only be sending 1 mW. In this example you would need to be listening at roughly 130 decibels to require 6 watts of output; doubling output power achieves a 3 db increase in volume.

That's a very simplistic example because there's a lot more than goes into it like resistance/impedance, voltage swing capabilities, etc. Point is though that a full 6 watts is enough to blow up many headphones and/or make you deaf if you listen at that volume for a sustained period on most headphones.

I use my THX 789 with a variety of headphones (DT 1990s, HE 500s, Elegia, A900x) and prefer high gain for all of them but rarely get above noon, and even that is only with my inefficient HE-500s.


----------



## Brahmsian

adeadcrab said:


> The ESP/950(X) energiser picks up electrical hum from around it. In my case it was a motorized desk. Play around and see what the energiser is picking up. You can probably eliminate that hum somehow.


950 fed through the headphone jack, no hum. Output is limited to 24/44.1 but still sounds excellent. The benefit of hooking it up to the SDACB was that it fed both amps at the same time. Still, Audirvana makes it easy to switch as long as I stop playback, so this will do.



yeboyi said:


> I think it's smooth and airy in the highs but there is no roll off. 789 is not warm amp.


The folks over at the sound science forum insist that all solid state amps sound the same. I’ve only owned four and at different times, so never compared them directly. Granting that the 789 is not warm, would you say that makes it bright or just transparent?


----------



## PopZeus (Oct 9, 2020)

The 789 is as close to "wire with gain" as you can get at this price point. For that reason, I love it. But it also is unforgiving of brighter headphones, compared to most other amps. (Which is more of a comment on how other amps color their sound.) I have a warm DAC and warm headphones, so the 789 was meant for people like me. As far as a lack of dynamics go, again, my DAC and headphones cover that well enough.


----------



## Superpong

I currently use and enjoy listening my Cavalli Carbon X but I am looking for another amp with more power. Overall, is this THX AAA 789 better than Carbon X?


----------



## eeagle

Superpong said:


> I currently use and enjoy listening my Cavalli Carbon X but I am looking for another amp with more power. Overall, is this THX AAA 789 better than Carbon X?


Spec wise the 789 is better, but if you like the Cavalli sound I would stick with the Carbon.  I run an  AIRIST AUDIO R-2R DAC  with my 789 to warm the sterile sound up to my liking.  The 789 is great for hard to drive planar HP's and that is what I have plugged into it most of the time in balanced mode.


----------



## yeboyi

eeagle said:


> Spec wise the 789 is better, but if you like the Cavalli sound I would stick with the Carbon.  I run an  AIRIST AUDIO R-2R DAC  with my 789 to warm the sterile sound up to my liking.  The 789 is great for hard to drive planar HP's and that is what I have plugged into it most of the time in balanced mode.


This amp is really sterile i wonder why. I guess negative feedback is really harmful. Are there any good measuring amps with minimal negative feedback ? I know the Asgard 3 at high gain has low negative feedback but it's too loud for modern sensitive headphones.


----------



## Superpong (Oct 12, 2020)

eeagle said:


> ..... to warm the sterile sound up to my liking....



Would this mean that 789 is a bit bright?


----------



## eeagle

Superpong said:


> Would this mean that 789 is a bit bright?


No, not at all.  Many describe it as an amplified wire, silent no noise or distortion, pretty much what goes in comes out louder.


----------



## adeadcrab

Been really enjoying the 789 + tube amp fed from preamp outs. Very warm, bassy tone but with the 789 speed and precision. The tube amp is a little bit better in terms of soundstage but I forget all that after a few days with the 789 again.


----------



## havagr8da (Oct 29, 2020)

adeadcrab said:


> Been really enjoying the 789 + tube amp fed from preamp outs. Very warm, bassy tone but with the 789 speed and precision. The tube amp is a little bit better in terms of soundstage but I forget all that after a few days with the 789 again.



How about tube dac fed! I just love the 789 + tube dac. So much so that a wire with volume rings true. The 789 really lets the dac shine. Revealing every aspect of the dac, tubes, sound stage, and every other aspect the dac has to offer. I would say the 789 is a revealing amp. That is to say it will produce exactly what you put into it and truthfully reveal what you listen to it with.

A perfect combo (to my ears) is - Black Ice Audio FX Tube DAC_DSD WiFi (Psvane Series Mark II tubes) - Drop THX 789 - Grado RS1e with L-Cush pads (Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable.) I can not stop listening to this combo. Absolutely amazing! An end game system for me.

The thing with the Black Ice Dac is that there are no op amps. The Burr Brown dac chip is fed directly to the tube pre amp. This is an amazing DAC.

As far as the THX 789 goes. It has replaced my Lyr 3 for now in my favorite headphone rig. I really wanted to realize all the dac had to offer. That is where a wire with volume amp comes in to play. In reality I am listening to the dac and depending on the THX 789 to give me the best representation of it. The THX 789 gives me the option (power) to use all my headphones and discover that perfect match.

As far as perfect goes, there is that which I believe is as the artist intended, hence the reference headphones such as the Grado RS1e. But here is where this system for me plays out in it’s true end game form. Every headphone I use is the best it has ever sounded.


----------



## havagr8da

eeagle said:


> No, not at all.  Many describe it as an amplified wire, silent no noise or distortion, pretty much what goes in comes out louder.



Absolutely! This is the reason this is a fantastic amp to have. THX!


----------



## pbarach

I just ordered one of these. I have a Marantz HD-DAC1, and I'm curious how the 789 will sound with the Marantz as its DAC. The Marantz is a nice unit, but its sound is a little too warm for my taste through its headphone jack, and I'm guessing that the warm sound is due to its amp rather than to its DAC, since there is no warm tendency when the DAC output is feeding my AVR and speakers. I usually listen with Focal Clears, but I also have HD600's.


----------



## havagr8da (Oct 29, 2020)

pbarach said:


> I just ordered one of these. I have a Marantz HD-DAC1, and I'm curious how the 789 will sound with the Marantz as its DAC. The Marantz is a nice unit, but its sound is a little too warm for my taste through its headphone jack, and I'm guessing that the warm sound is due to its amp rather than to its DAC, since there is no warm tendency when the DAC output is feeding my AVR and speakers. I usually listen with Focal Clears, but I also have HD600's.



Believe me, surely one of the best purchases you have made. Congrats, this amp will reveal just what that dac is at it’s best. Again, one of the best volume on a wire amps out there. All this for a great price too. Smiles per dollar can’t be beat.


----------



## touzeen

I just got the 789 for my DT1990 and He-400i. Are there any precautions I need to take care of when using it with the Planer? For Ex: Can I switch gain on the fly? without getting the volume to 0? Can switching gain quickly damage the headphones? 
I'm still on SE for the 400i,waiting for balanced cables. Gain II and 12 o' Clock is powering the 400i for satisfactory volume.


----------



## pbarach

My THX amp arrived today. Its source is the DAC in my Marantz HD-DAC1 (which is also a headphone amp). With Focal Clears, I am so far hearing little if any difference between these amps. I'll have time for more extensive listening tomorrow. I'll also see what differences show up with HD-600's, and I will also try the Clears with their balanced cable--although I don't expect any significant benefit to using it.


----------



## pbarach

touzeen said:


> I just got the 789 for my DT1990 and He-400i.


 Which version of the HE-400i do you have? The original version had a backplate, and it sounded completely different from its successor, which had no backplate and had different connectors. That's the version I have, and I have never liked the distortion it adds to the midrange, especially evident on acoustic piano. Then there is the "2020 edition" HE-400i, which has a completely different build--haven't heard it.


----------



## adeadcrab

pbarach said:


> My THX amp arrived today. Its source is the DAC in my Marantz HD-DAC1 (which is also a headphone amp). With Focal Clears, I am so far hearing little if any difference between these amps. I'll have time for more extensive listening tomorrow. I'll also see what differences show up with HD-600's, and I will also try the Clears with their balanced cable--although I don't expect any significant benefit to using it.


If the Marantz has headphone + preamp / DAC out, the 789 will sound like the headphone out


----------



## NA Blur

pbarach said:


> Which version of the HE-400i do you have? The original version had a backplate, and it sounded completely different from its successor, which had no backplate and had different connectors. That's the version I have, and I have never liked the distortion it adds to the midrange, especially evident on acoustic piano. Then there is the "2020 edition" HE-400i, which has a completely different build--haven't heard it.


I own an older version of the 400i ( 3.5mm version ) as well as the 2020 version. I compared them both against each other on my THX AAA 789 and they sound the same as far as I can tell.


----------



## pbarach

adeadcrab said:


> If the Marantz has headphone + preamp / DAC out, the 789 will sound like the headphone out


Yes, it has headphone out plus line level analog out, which is connected to the 789 inputs. So if I don't detect any difference between the headphone output on the Marantz and that on the 789 (i.e., same DAC, different headphone amp), then the amps are equivalent?


----------



## adeadcrab

The 789 is a little faster sounding to my ears, at least compared to my tube amp. The bass is tight and the rest of the music doesn't lag behind. The tube amp is looser and more relaxed. Also the size of the soundstage and imaging might be different if you really try and listen.


----------



## pbarach

With a little more listening time, I have noticed a bit more detail in some complicated full-orchestra passages using the 789, in comparison to my Marantz HD-DAC1 (the Marantz serves as the DAC in both cases). For example, the 24/96 download of John Williams in Vienna sounds a little muddy in certain passages, but it's much clearer with the 789 as to what various instruments are actually playing.


----------



## Nklaiste

I just got the 789 to use with my 650's. It sounds fantastic but to get it loud enough I have to set it on gain 3 and have the volume all the way up. 

Am I doing something wrong or does this amp not get loud enough?


----------



## bcaulf17

Nklaiste said:


> I just got the 789 to use with my 650's. It sounds fantastic but to get it loud enough I have to set it on gain 3 and have the volume all the way up.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or does this amp not get loud enough?


Might be your source...using the 789 with a Topping E30 plugged into my MacBook, I use my HD6XX at gain 2 and between 12 - 3 o clock.

Maybe I don’t listen loud enough!


----------



## adeadcrab

Nklaiste said:


> I just got the 789 to use with my 650's. It sounds fantastic but to get it loud enough I have to set it on gain 3 and have the volume all the way up.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or does this amp not get loud enough?


Try and find some balanced cables for the 650 - that will get you a lot more power. I can get to gain 3 with the 650 on single ended for normal, quiet background listening, but my DAC is at -20dB.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 7, 2020)

yeboyi said:


> This amp is really sterile i wonder why. I guess negative feedback is really harmful. Are there any good measuring amps with minimal negative feedback ? I know the Asgard 3 at high gain has low negative feedback but it's too loud for modern sensitive headphones.


Spot on about this amp being sterile.  For similar price point or cheaper, I'd recommend going with Schiit amps as alternative. Or just go with LP for better engaging sound. I really don't get the hype behind these amps.

For those have ample experience in hearing and looking at measurents would know that measurements values beyond certain digits isn't an indicator of amps performing well audibly.  There is no direct correlation. It's just marketting.


----------



## pbarach

After listening to my 789 for a few days (source: Marantz HD-DAC1; Focal Clear headphones), I haven't found it sterile at all. It reproduces complex orchestral details in a way that isn't lean at all, and I find listening much less fatiguing than the headphone output of the Marantz.


----------



## bcaulf17

pbarach said:


> After listening to my 789 for a few days (source: Marantz HD-DAC1; Focal Clear headphones), I haven't found it sterile at all. It reproduces complex orchestral details in a way that isn't lean at all, and I find listening much less fatiguing than the headphone output of the Marantz.


Agreed, still really enjoy mine. It sounds like nothing, which is exactly what I want an amp to sound like. Wire with gain.


----------



## yeboyi

I've tried zen dac and zen can combo and like it better than my e30 thx 789 combo for Ananda. It's kind of warm, bright and dynamic at the same time. THX 789 sounds kinda effortless and soft.


----------



## marts30

Maybe a silly question, can I connect my passive speakers (receiver) to SE pass?


----------



## pbarach

The SE pass is a line-level output, so you can connect it to a receiver. Works fine--I set up my amp that way. HOWEVER, according to the two-page manual, the SE pass doesn't work if your source is a balanced connection from a DAC--it only works with a DAC if it's a single-ended connection.


----------



## NA Blur

Nklaiste said:


> I just got the 789 to use with my 650's. It sounds fantastic but to get it loud enough I have to set it on gain 3 and have the volume all the way up.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or does this amp not get loud enough?


Make sure your player and PC volume are at 90% and use the amp volume knob to set the listening level.

You should have plenty of volume on again 2. Something is not right with your setup. What DAC are you using?


----------



## marts30

pbarach said:


> The SE pass is a line-level output, so you can connect it to a receiver. Works fine--I set up my amp that way. HOWEVER, according to the two-page manual, the SE pass doesn't work if your source is a balanced connection from a DAC--it only works with a DAC if it's a single-ended connection.



Great, thanks!


----------



## Blotto80

Just picked one of these up to pair with my Focal Clear. Running balanced it is just plain effortless. Crisp and clean highs, tight bass, soundstage is greatly improved over the Magni Heresy I was running with. I'm pretty happy with it so far.


----------



## DotaDondo

I've had one of these for a while and I drive HD6xx, 660s, and 800 with them. Quite the treat, clear and crisp. THX doing some good stuff for audio.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Made a similar post on the A90 thread:

For those of you who have tried both, how noticeable is the difference between this amp and the Topping A90? Thinking of picking up the A90 because I saw some reviews describing it as being a little warmer, but not sure if it's worth the trouble if I already have a 789.


----------



## bcaulf17

Gorillaphant said:


> Made a similar post on the A90 thread:
> 
> For those of you who have tried both, how noticeable is the difference between this amp and the Topping A90? Thinking of picking up the A90 because I saw some reviews describing it as being a little warmer, but not sure if it's worth the trouble if I already have a 789.


I would think of it more as a side grade.


----------



## pbarach

I don't find the 789 to have a lean or cold sound, but it is clearer and more detailed than the Marantz HD-DAC1 I've been using. Today a Topping D50s arrives, and I'm eager to see how it works when paired with the 789.


----------



## Gorillaphant

pbarach said:


> I don't find the 789 to have a lean or cold sound, but it is clearer and more detailed than the Marantz HD-DAC1 I've been using. Today a Topping D50s arrives, and I'm eager to see how it works when paired with the 789.



I've actually been using a D50S and 789 for the last 6-7 months. I've been pretty happy with it so far (paired with Fostex TH-900 for a while before I sold them, MDR-Z1R, and Verite Closed). Was looking at the A90 due to recent sales + "grass-is-greener" thinking haha, but no real complaints other than the size mismatch between the D50S and the 789


----------



## pbarach

Gorillaphant said:


> I've actually been using a D50S and 789 for the last 6-7 months. I've been pretty happy with it so far (paired with Fostex TH-900 for a while before I sold them, MDR-Z1R, and Verite Closed). Was looking at the A90 due to recent sales + "grass-is-greener" thinking haha, but no real complaints other than the size mismatch between the D50S and the 789


Good to hear. I don't care about the size mismatch because the units will be side by side. I'll be used Focal Clears and Senn HD-600's.


----------



## tholt (Nov 17, 2020)

Just wanted to add some kudos for this amp. I simply needed an amp to troubleshoot an issue, needing a 'second opinion' as it were. I figured I'd get it, test with it, experience a total letdown sonically, and return it. I went in thinking this would be a clinical, bright and edgy, non-engaging sounding amp. And for $300, what would one expect? I was/am pleasantly surprised. I've owned a dozen amps or so, prices all over the map, and this little dude has to be the new price/performance leader. I'm seriously considering keeping it just to have on hand, if not make it my semi-permanent daily driver, at least for now. I'm enjoying it! Driving my Abyss 1266 Phi CC just fine.


----------



## havagr8da

tholt said:


> Just wanted to add some kudos for this amp. I simply needed an amp to troubleshoot an issue, needing a 'second opinion' as it were. I figured I'd get it, test with it, experience a total letdown sonically, and return it. I went in thinking this would be a clinical, bright and edgy, non-engaging sounding amp. And for $300, what would one expect? I was/am pleasantly surprised. I've owned a dozen amps or so, prices all over the map, and this little dude has to be the new price/performance leader. I'm seriously considering keeping it just to have on hand, if not make it my semi-permanent daily driver, at least for now. I'm enjoying it! Driving my Abyss 1266 Phi CC just fine.



Glad you stumbled on to something that worked better than expected. Surely one of the most fun aspects of this hobby. Your intentions were spot on too. I have used this amp many times to reveal a change in the chain. It is very revealing of everything in front of it. With the added pleasure of knowing it is a very good amp.


----------



## pbarach

tholt said:


> Just wanted to add some kudos for this amp. I simply needed an amp to troubleshoot an issue, needing a 'second opinion' as it were. I figured I'd get it, test with it, experience a total letdown sonically, and return it. I went in thinking this would be a clinical, bright and edgy, non-engaging sounding amp. And for $300, what would one expect? I was/am pleasantly surprised. I've owned a dozen amps or so, prices all over the map, and this little dude has to be the new price/performance leader. I'm seriously considering keeping it just to have on hand, if not make it my semi-permanent daily driver, at least for now. I'm enjoying it! Driving my Abyss 1266 Phi CC just fine.


 I'd been using a Marantz HD-DAC1 both as headphone amp and DAC. The THX added clarity to complex classical orchestral music with the Marantz as DAC. A Topping D50s DAC in place of the Marantz added an out-of-the head soundstage to my Focal Clears that I didn't have before. Very happy with the combo; I was concerned the result would be bright, clinical, and dry, but the result isn't any of these things.


----------



## havagr8da (Nov 17, 2020)

@pbarach You bring a smile to my face. D50s somewhere around $250 US + Drop THX 789 at $300 US and I know you are a happy camper. More money for headphones! Am I right? This is the best of times to enjoy the music we love.

Good start with a great headphones and wise approach to getting them to perform better.

Focals are great at out of the head experience. I call them speakers on your head. Once you quit lookin at them it’s just music.


----------



## tholt

pbarach said:


> I'd been using a Marantz HD-DAC1 both as headphone amp and DAC. The THX added clarity to complex classical orchestral music with the Marantz as DAC. A Topping D50s DAC in place of the Marantz added an out-of-the head soundstage to my Focal Clears that I didn't have before. Very happy with the combo; I was concerned the result would be bright, clinical, and dry, but the result isn't any of these things.



Based on some of the other posts here, it seems like component synergy is very important with this amp. I suppose it is with any amp, but the sterility and brightness I was fearing and others have noted, I haven't really heard. And this is with an Abyss, so it would be noticeable if it was there. I wonder if my DAC and aftermarket HP cabling are balancing things out and lending to a fuller sound throughout. I'm not hearing anything I'd consider overly bright, clinical or not 'musical'. And I consider myself sensitive to those things, especially brightness. 

Anyone notice any sonic differences in the gain settings? I was primarily using the middle gain setting so I could get more play with the volume knob, but going back and forth between middle and high gain (doing my best to level match), it seems like middle gain is a tad softer and rounder sounding than high gain?


----------



## havagr8da (Nov 17, 2020)

@tholt, I really don’t think gain will change any aspect of signature other than added volume. But perception of this added or decreased volume via gain is perceived by the headphone used. Low Mid High are all adding  or decreasing volume applied to the resistance of the headphone. Your perception is correct, I have noticed the same and it is a fun dance. Finding the gain setting plus volume position for optimum pleasure with various headphones. Very nuanced you must have good ears, blessed for sure.

The gain setting is primarily there to overcome resistance. Each gain setting can be perceived as optimal for any particular headphones resistance..


----------



## tholt

havagr8da said:


> @tholt, I really don’t think gain will change any aspect of signature other than added volume. But perception of this added or decreased volume via gain is perceived by the headphone used. Low Mid High are all adding  or decreasing volume applied to the resistance of the headphone. Your perception is correct, I have noticed the same and it is a fun dance. Finding the gain setting plus volume position for optimum pleasure with various headphones. Very nuanced you must have good ears, blessed for sure.
> 
> The gain setting is primarily there to overcome resistance. Each gain setting can be perceived as optimal for any particular headphones resistance..



I'm guessing the headphones are allowing me to hear the differences as much as my ears do. Nothing really escapes the 1266. It's subtle, but I've found a consistent increase in dynamics, air and incisiveness on the high gain vs the others.


----------



## NickT23

Hii, does anyone, know where can I get new or used Massdrop THX 789 Amplifier ? I want *Massdrop version*, not that hidieous bold letter Drop aesthetics.


----------



## blackdragon87

just scored a decent price on one of these. interested in trying it with my eikon and atticus with my bifrost 2 
not sure id like the sound compared to my lp amo and jot, but the price i got it for its worth a try imo


----------



## Mal Gagnon

Grabbed it while it was on sale for $250 last weekend. Just came this afternoon looking forward to checking it out.


----------



## havagr8da

At that price it is very hard to beat. Enjoy!


----------



## JoeTho

Just received one myself. There's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said about this amp. However, I'm surprised how good my HD800s sound with the 789. The HD800s sound to me like the perfect blend between the HD600s & the HD650s. They actually have a warmth to them to the likes of never before. I suppose that is a sound characteristic coming from my DAC (RME ADI 2 DAC). Great combo.


----------



## KCXT

Had mine for 7 or so months now and am still very satisfied. I've used it with various headphones but currently pair it with my Elegia and HE-500 and it makes them sing; the HE-500s run balanced and that's my favorite pairing of all that I've owned. I prefer them both on the highest gain even though the volume rarely goes above 10 or 11:00... might be in my head but I feel like it's more full that way.


----------



## tvr2500m

I have a question about using an alternative power supply with this amplifier, replacing the brick with a higher-quality power supply. Anyone done this? Better? Worse? Same?

I recognize the importance of power supply design. I've had the experience of swapping a wallwart for a higher performance power supply making a huge difference, and also not making a difference at all.


----------



## tholt (Dec 11, 2020)

tvr2500m said:


> I have a question about using an alternative power supply with this amplifier, replacing the brick with a higher-quality power supply. Anyone done this? Better? Worse? Same?
> 
> I recognize the importance of power supply design. I've had the experience of swapping a wallwart for a higher performance power supply making a huge difference, and also not making a difference at all.



I did a little googling on this when I first got it, thinking the same thing. A couple people apparently tried it and no sound came out, despite the aftermarket PSU being spec'd correctly. And it seems the designer of the amp (or at least the designated representative for it on Drop) says the included PSU is totally sufficient and that an aftermarket is not advised. I left it at that.

I am curious though also if anyone has experience with different PSUs and if one has been found that works and improves sonics.


----------



## Sanlitun

I gather there are a few of us who picked this up out of curiosity when it was on sale Black Friday.

My first impression relates to just how much power this thing has and how easy it is to clip or sound unnatural. I had initially set it up all balanced into HD800S and the dynamics were just too much. Using LCD-X balanced is out of the question as the volume of course can't go past 7 AM on low gain and it sounds completely unnatural.

Single ended input and output is much better and delivers a very thick and resolved sound on the LCD-X. I guess I will explore this for a while before trying the HD800S again, I have my doubts that this amp will work out for me with the Sennheisers.

I hate messing with my setup. I have happily been using the TA-ZH1ES for a couple of years now but curiosity got the best of me.

Any recommendations for DACs or headphones with this thing? And does anyone else feel it's just too powerful for it's own good?


----------



## JoeTho

I'm sitting here right now with my LCD XCs, at 12 o'clock, gain setting 2 in the balanced configuration. My source is a Marantz Professional PMD-526C CD Player with balanced XLR Interconnects to the THX 789. And I love it.


----------



## pbarach

I'm using Focal Clears with gain setting on 2 or Senn 600's with gain at 3, in both cases single-ended; the volume control is at somewhere between 10 and 12 depending on the music. Source is either USB from my PC or coax from Oppo 103 to a Topping D50s DAC, which is connected single-ended to the amp. No problem with getting the music as loud as I want.


----------



## tholt

It definitely has power. I'm using Abyss 1266 Phi so this amp works well for me. Balanced in/balanced out. I can use all gain settings. On high, the loudest I can turn the dial is around 10 o'clock. On low I can go up to around 1 o'clock. I love how the gain settings actually mean something on this thing. Some others amps I've had didn't change volume much regardless of gain setting.


----------



## blackdragon87 (Dec 16, 2020)

.


----------



## PopZeus

Sanlitun said:


> Any recommendations for DACs or headphones with this thing? And does anyone else feel it's just too powerful for it's own good?



I'm running the Denfrips Ares II into my 789 and it is an excellent pairing. That chain would pair very well with any planar of your choice (within reason in terms of power).


----------



## Sanlitun

Well wow today I have it fed from a Mytek Brooklyn via XLR and running the LCD-X single ended it is too loud past 8 o'clock for me.

If I switch between the SE and XLR input on the fly it certainly seems the XLR is compressed or clipped. Running it all SE seems to work for me and sounds more natural.

I don't feel the amp sounds sterile or harsh as has been often stated, but there is certainly a fine line here with synergy.


----------



## Canonlon

I've been using the thx789 for a few years. Recently it developed harsh frequency around 6-8Khz. Made it unlistenable. Just curious if others have had a similar experience.


----------



## Sound Eq

are there a brand of interconnects that can help in adding a bit warmth to thx789 using chord mojo as dac


----------



## tholt

Sound Eq said:


> are there a brand of interconnects that can help in adding a bit warmth to thx789 using chord mojo as dac


Legacy Cardas interconnects like Cross, Golden Cross or Golden Presence would probably do it


----------



## 540828

Sanlitun said:


> I gather there are a few of us who picked this up out of curiosity when it was on sale Black Friday.
> 
> My first impression relates to just how much power this thing has and how easy it is to clip or sound unnatural. I had initially set it up all balanced into HD800S and the dynamics were just too much. Using LCD-X balanced is out of the question as the volume of course can't go past 7 AM on low gain and it sounds completely unnatural.
> 
> ...




I use Audio Technica ATH-R70X which are a 470 ohm load with reasonable sensitivity and I use my 789 on High Gain usually with the volume at around ten to on the dial. I use the balanced inputs but the SE out. This amp will go very loud and I can see how you might get some clipping, especially if using low ohm high sensitivity headphones. Other than that, in my set-up this really does sound superb and I've no complaints about the sheer drive of the amp. Compared to my Rupert Neve RNHP the amp is more musical to my ears and definitely drives difficult headphone loads better. All the cabling I use is silver plated OFC which I prefer as I feel it gives a sweeter sound but that's just personal preference.


----------



## PopZeus (Dec 31, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> are there a brand of interconnects that can help in adding a bit warmth to thx789 using chord mojo as dac



This might sound ridiculous but apparently gold as a cable material apparently offers that mellower top end compared to silver. I mean, I can believe that it alters the sound perceptibly, but making that jump is definitely a choice. Gold cables as a concept sound ridiculously extravagant and ostentatious, given the state of the world. Also, it's more common to see gold headphone cables, so changing interconnects seems like something to do after you've exhausted all other possible upgrades anyways. I owned the mojo briefly and while its technicalities were impressive, the sound was always too analytical for my taste (and it's pretty subpar as a desktop solution). I'd probably upgrade the DAC before investing in cables that rival the cost of the components.

Otherwise, just find the highest quality copper interconnect you can afford. I prefer those single-crystal OCC copper cables when I need that normal bit of warmth. I do believe they offer the best sound without brightening things up like silver can. But if you're looking for bigger change to the sound, it might be time for a component upgrade.


----------



## bequietjk (Jan 3, 2021)

What's up 789'rs,

Just chiming it to say that I'm finally using balanced input on the 789.  With the MOTU M2 audio interface and listening with my HD600s on low gain at 1 o' clock everything sounds amazing.  I've been fluttering with the idea of getting a new amp with more power, like the Jot 2 or A90.  Now I'm not so sure.  This amp really is a gem.  The only thing I'd like to test is an sbooster 24V psu with the 789.  REALLY curious to see how it may affect the sound.

edit:  actually, volume knob set to 11 o' clock.  Using the balanced input really cranks up the volume xD  Can't be goin' def now!

Happy New Year!


----------



## tholt

bequietjk said:


> The only thing I'd like to test is an sbooster 24V psu with the 789. REALLY curious to see how it may affect the sound.



It seems the Drop rep for the THX discourages it for a few reasons (voided warranty, unnecessary). I've read some who have tried and strangely it didn't work. So perhaps best left as it is, though I'm curious as well.

https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-7...k/2010032?utm_source=linkshare&referer=AQY9GV


----------



## NickT23

Does anyone have THX 789 + Hugo2 Combo ?


----------



## bequietjk

Does anyone know where the THX 789 is made?  Assembled?


----------



## NickT23

bequietjk said:


> Does anyone know where the THX 789 is made?  Assembled?


Zhong guo


----------



## George Hincapie

Has anyone paired this amp with a Metrum Acoustics DAC or a Schiit Yggdrasil? I am interested in these pairings particularly if anyone has first hand experience.


----------



## tamleo

bequietjk said:


> Does anyone know where the THX 789 is made?  Assembled?


China


----------



## marblerye

I've had the 789 for nearly a year now and initially paired it with an AKM based dac and it was fine. I heard people say the SU-8 was a good pairing so tried that out, balanced xlr. I didn't like the sound of the ES based dac as it made the treble rather harsh. For classical it was OK but when I switched to pop or other genres it was easily fatiguing on hd800. 

Recently paired it with D90 MQA and wow it's a nice difference. Bass is better, and it's not as peaky. My preference is AK dac chips, it seems. Multi genres are enjoyable. What's impressive is 789 is so revealing that it can highlight dac differences.


----------



## NickT23

marblerye said:


> I've had the 789 for nearly a year now and initially paired it with an AKM based dac and it was fine. I heard people say the SU-8 was a good pairing so tried that out, balanced xlr. I didn't like the sound of the ES based dac as it made the treble rather harsh. For classical it was OK but when I switched to pop or other genres it was easily fatiguing on hd800.
> 
> Recently paired it with D90 MQA and wow it's a nice difference. Bass is better, and it's not as peaky. My preference is AK dac chips, it seems. Multi genres are enjoyable. What's impressive is 789 is so revealing that it can highlight dac differences.


Hey, just wondering have you tried the A90 particularly A90+D90 MQA combo ?!


----------



## bcaulf17

NickT23 said:


> Hey, just wondering have you tried the A90 particularly A90+D90 MQA combo ?!


I’m very interested in that combo as well but at $1,000 + it would be more than double what I paid for the 789 and my Topping E30. That Topping stack just looks cool and has some nice features.


----------



## NickT23

bcaulf17 said:


> I’m very interested in that combo as well but at $1,000 + it would be more than double what I paid for the 789 and my Topping E30. That Topping stack just looks cool and has some nice features.


Yeah, thought so !


----------



## Moose246

Just purchased this amp used (hasn't arrived yet)....will pair it with a RME ADI-2 FS that is also en route.  Curious and exited to see how it performs, haven't read too many negative reviews for either.  Currently using a Mojo for a pair of Fostex TH900 mkii's and HD650's.


----------



## LillaGrynet

I have owned the 789 for a couple months now and I honestly have to say that I don't really like it. I have tried it with the E30 and modi2u DAC and I find the sound fatiguing and the soundstage is narrower compared to my asgard 2 amp. I have really tried to like it but I get a headache only after a couple of minutes. I have also noticed that the E30 DAC combined with the asgard 2 starts to fatigue me so I have decided to go back to the modi2u even though it is not nearly as detailed and has worse imaging. I mainly use the HD6xx as my daily driver.
Maybe I have to try something completely different like a tube amp. I am checking out the Darkvoice 336SE.


----------



## George Hincapie

My Mass Drop THX AAA 789 arrived today. Just letting it warm up playing Roon Radio then will listen later.

First impressions are really positive.

I note it is supplied with a cheap SMPS. Has anyone tried it with a LPSU? If so, what did you go for and did you experience any SQ improvement?

I live in the UK, so am considering either an MCRU LPSU, or a Farad Super 3.


----------



## pbarach

George Hincapie said:


> My Mass Drop THX AAA 789 arrived today. Just letting it warm up playing Roon Radio then will listen later.
> 
> First impressions are really positive.
> 
> ...


I think I read a review that said you can't switch out the power supply. Who has tried, and what was the result?


----------



## bequietjk

You can use an LPS provided you use the correct volts and amperage but it isnt advised by the designer.


----------



## NickT23

George Hincapie said:


> My Mass Drop THX AAA 789 arrived today. Just letting it warm up playing Roon Radio then will listen later.
> 
> First impressions are really positive.
> 
> ...


Hello, massdrop or drop ? There are difference in aesthetic.


----------



## George Hincapie

NickT23 said:


> Hello, massdrop or drop ? There are difference in aesthetic.



It's new, so Drop.


----------



## NickT23

George Hincapie said:


> It's new, so Drop.


Then you should say "My Drop THX AAA 789 arrived today. Just letting it warm up playing Roon Radio then will listen later." 
and yada yada...............


----------



## George Hincapie

bequietjk said:


> You can use an LPS provided you use the correct volts and amperage but it isnt advised by the designer.



It says that on the instructions, but I'd still like to understand why the designer thinks that and I'd still like to read feedback from owners who have done it.

I hate using SMPS in my home, both for audio and because I'm also a UK based amateur radio operator; they throw off so much RFI. I have always been able to swap out a SMPS for a LPSU on every component I have bought that doesn't have linear inside already. 

It' an excellent HPA though. I listened to it last night for an hour. Precise without being bright. Super quiet background. I really like it. My Metrum Aurix has been popped onto the storage shelf.


----------



## George Hincapie

NickT23 said:


> Then you should say "My Drop THX AAA 789 arrived today. Just letting it warm up playing Roon Radio then will listen later."
> and yada yada...............



Well you can imagine that's what it reads if it calms you.


----------



## NickT23

George Hincapie said:


> Well you can imagine that's what it reads if it calms you.


Its never the same to me, aesthetically !


----------



## iMongui

Lets see if someone can help me. I bought a cable 2,5 on source (to use with a Fiio Q5) or with a 4,4 adapter (iBasso DX220) and on the destination side, dual XLR 3pin. I received this cable today, plugged and played something. Damn, the sound was TERRIBLE bad. Bad, bad, bad. Didn't listen anything as that in my life. I've checked the cable construction and it looks like if its ok so i dont see the point of why its sounding so bad. Tried to listen on SE and balanced output and nothing, still listening horrible. Is there any reason? I mean, the main idea to use this cable is to go for a balanced schema from the source to the destination, thats all. But its not working as i expected. Picture of the adapter next


----------



## tamleo

NickT23 said:


> Its never the same to me, aesthetically !


What is the difference besides the logo?


----------



## tholt

tamleo said:


> What is the difference besides the logo?


AFAIK, nothing. Massdrop changed their name to Drop. That's it.


----------



## pbarach

iMongui said:


> Lets see if someone can help me. I bought a cable 2,5 on source (to use with a Fiio Q5) or with a 4,4 adapter (iBasso DX220) and on the destination side, dual XLR 3pin. I received this cable today, plugged and played something. Damn, the sound was TERRIBLE bad. Bad, bad, bad.


  There is absolutely no point in using a balanced input cable with this amp. The amp is not truly balanced (i.e., dual mono). Just use a regular, decent-quality single-ended interconnect with the Fiio; I don't know anything about an iBasso and an adapter.


----------



## George Hincapie

pbarach said:


> There is absolutely no point in using a balanced input cable with this amp. The amp is not truly balanced (i.e., dual mono). Just use a regular, decent-quality single-ended interconnect with the Fiio; I don't know anything about an iBasso and an adapter.



Perhaps I misunderstand you, but the instructions state that balanced input to and output from the amp will provide the best performance. Is that incorrect? Or are we talking at cross-purposes?


----------



## iMongui (Jan 26, 2021)

pbarach said:


> There is absolutely no point in using a balanced input cable with this amp. The amp is not truly balanced (i.e., dual mono). Just use a regular, decent-quality single-ended interconnect with the Fiio; I don't know anything about an iBasso and an adapter.


And then, where is the point to provide inputs and outputs balanced if there aren’t real balanced at all?


----------



## tholt

iMongui said:


> And the where is the point to provide inputs and outputs balanced if there aren’t real balanced at all?


Convenience



pbarach said:


> There is absolutely no point in using a balanced input cable with this amp. The amp is not truly balanced (i.e., dual mono). Just use a regular, decent-quality single-ended interconnect with the Fiio; I don't know anything about an iBasso and an adapter.



I disagree. Though the amp is not truly balanced in>out, it is quasi-balanced. If you have a balanced DAC, there is no reason not to use balanced in. In real world terms, I hear a positive difference using the XLR inputs (from my balanced DAC). However, if I had a SE output DAC, I wouldn't get adapters just to take advantage of balanced inputs. Also, balanced out is optimal vs SE out and provides double the power output.

From DARKO:

_The 789 gives us XLR inputs and a 4-pin XLR headphone out, but is it really balanced throughout? THX engineer Andrew Mason advises:

“The signal path internally is fully differential throughout (per Putzeys), but is NOT truly balanced in a few sections. We preserve the full signal integrity but we avoid increasing the retail price for no measurable benefit.”

Like many other headphone amps, the 789 might more accurately be called “pseudo-balanced”, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worthwhile. Its 4-pin XLR headphone jack offers double the output of the single-ended for a maximum of 6 Watts into 32 ohms. And the 789’s XLR inputs take full advantage of a DAC’s balanced outputs_


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> AFAIK, nothing. Massdrop changed their name to Drop. That's it.


Aesthetics


----------



## 540828

Hi all
i thought I’ll chime in on this discussion for what it’s worth. I have owned the THX AAA 789 for two months. I bought it out of curiosity having read / watched all the reviews. My other headphone amp is the Rupert Neve RNHP, itself a well regarded amp. I have 4 pairs of headphones that I’ve used with both amps. Audio Technica M50x, Audio Technica ATH-R70x, AKG K271 mk2 and Beyerdynamic DT990. Firstly to clear up the issue of the Massdrop vs Drop discussion. They are identical apart from the change of branding and the silk screen printing on the casework. Secondly, regarding the question of whether or not the amp is truly balanced and whether there is any value to using the XLR pathway through the amp. As previously quoted elsewhere on the thread, in absolute terms the amp is not a true differential circuit throughout but certain elements of the circuit employ some of those design elements which result in similar benefits in the signal path e.g. lower noise floor, less distortion and higher output voltage via the XLR output. My assessment of this amp in use via its single ended pathway is that it is has a transparent signature and will easily drive easier loads to high levels, using the high gain switch. The XLR output as the specs suggest has a much higher output level than the SE outputs. Output via XLR headphone out when used in conjunction with the XLR inputs is significantly louder and more muscular that that of SE although the sound signature remains the same. The benefit therefore of using the XLR throughput is purely the ability to easily drive more demanding loads and gives the option of reducing the gain if desired. This does leave more headroom on the volume adjustment. Curiously I have also found that when the SE input is used but the headphones are connected to the XLR output the output level is higher than when using the SE output but slightly quieter than if the XLR input is used in conjunction with the XLR output. In absolute terms I find this to be one of the better headphone amps that I have used. It is very linear and transparent and hugely powerful (via XLR). By comparison to the Rupert Neve amp is it more analytical in presentation and less fluid. Instruments tend to sound thinner and uncoloured. Soundstage is narrower than something like the Neve or a tube amp. To my mind headphone choice is important as the 789 will present the headphone’s sound signature as the manufacturer intended. The only criticism that I have is that on high gain with the volume turned right down the sound is still audible, but that’s not an issue for me. Some have commented on channel imbalance on the volume control but my unit is perfect in that respect. I have experimented with different psu’s but they made no difference to my ears. Accompanying equipment is either Quad Artera CDP / DAC or the Artera used as a CD transport into the SMSL SU-9 DAC via a Cardas 50ohm coax cable. My preferred partnering headphone is the ATH-R70x.
I hope that helps.


----------



## pbarach

I know what the instructions state, but this amp is not truly a balanced amp. You do get more power using the balanced outputs. See this review for some information from the amp's designer:
https://darko.audio/2020/08/starting-points-drop-thxs-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/


----------



## NickT23

pbarach said:


> I know what the instructions state, but this amp is not truly a balanced amp. You do get more power using the balanced outputs. See this review for some information from the amp's designer:
> https://darko.audio/2020/08/starting-points-drop-thxs-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/


So in a way its more like balance also even though its not balance.


----------



## George Hincapie

RStdik said:


> Hi all
> i thought I’ll chime in on this discussion for what it’s worth. I have owned the THX AAA 789 for two months. I bought it out of curiosity having read / watched all the reviews. My other headphone amp is the Rupert Neve RNHP, itself a well regarded amp. I have 4 pairs of headphones that I’ve used with both amps. Audio Technica M50x, Audio Technica ATH-R70x, AKG K271 mk2 and Beyerdynamic DT990. Firstly to clear up the issue of the Massdrop vs Drop discussion. They are identical apart from the change of branding and the silk screen printing on the casework. Secondly, regarding the question of whether or not the amp is truly balanced and whether there is any value to using the XLR pathway through the amp. As previously quoted elsewhere on the thread, in absolute terms the amp is not a true differential circuit throughout but certain elements of the circuit employ some of those design elements which result in similar benefits in the signal path e.g. lower noise floor, less distortion and higher output voltage via the XLR output. My assessment of this amp in use via its single ended pathway is that it is has a transparent signature and will easily drive easier loads to high levels, using the high gain switch. The XLR output as the specs suggest has a much higher output level than the SE outputs. Output via XLR headphone out when used in conjunction with the XLR inputs is significantly louder and more muscular that that of SE although the sound signature remains the same. The benefit therefore of using the XLR throughput is purely the ability to easily drive more demanding loads and gives the option of reducing the gain if desired. This does leave more headroom on the volume adjustment. Curiously I have also found that when the SE input is used but the headphones are connected to the XLR output the output level is higher than when using the SE output but slightly quieter than if the XLR input is used in conjunction with the XLR output. In absolute terms I find this to be one of the better headphone amps that I have used. It is very linear and transparent and hugely powerful (via XLR). By comparison to the Rupert Neve amp is it more analytical in presentation and less fluid. Instruments tend to sound thinner and uncoloured. Soundstage is narrower than something like the Neve or a tube amp. To my mind headphone choice is important as the 789 will present the headphone’s sound signature as the manufacturer intended. The only criticism that I have is that on high gain with the volume turned right down the sound is still audible, but that’s not an issue for me. Some have commented on channel imbalance on the volume control but my unit is perfect in that respect. I have experimented with different psu’s but they made no difference to my ears. Accompanying equipment is either Quad Artera CDP / DAC or the Artera used as a CD transport into the SMSL SU-9 DAC via a Cardas 50ohm coax cable. My preferred partnering headphone is the ATH-R70x.
> I hope that helps.



Really nice post, thanks.

I have owned my  789 for a few days, having moved from a Metrum Aurix. I agree with almost all of your presentation comments. Detailed but not bright. Your observation about the narrow soundstage is spot on; I was trying to put my finger on what it was. Spot on.


----------



## cel4145

RStdik said:


> Hi all
> i thought I’ll chime in on this discussion for what it’s worth. I have owned the THX AAA 789 for two months. I bought it out of curiosity having read / watched all the reviews. My other headphone amp is the Rupert Neve RNHP, itself a well regarded amp. I have 4 pairs of headphones that I’ve used with both amps. Audio Technica M50x, Audio Technica ATH-R70x, AKG K271 mk2 and Beyerdynamic DT990. Firstly to clear up the issue of the Massdrop vs Drop discussion. They are identical apart from the change of branding and the silk screen printing on the casework. Secondly, regarding the question of whether or not the amp is truly balanced and whether there is any value to using the XLR pathway through the amp. As previously quoted elsewhere on the thread, in absolute terms the amp is not a true differential circuit throughout but certain elements of the circuit employ some of those design elements which result in similar benefits in the signal path e.g. lower noise floor, less distortion and higher output voltage via the XLR output. My assessment of this amp in use via its single ended pathway is that it is has a transparent signature and will easily drive easier loads to high levels, using the high gain switch. The XLR output as the specs suggest has a much higher output level than the SE outputs. Output via XLR headphone out when used in conjunction with the XLR inputs is significantly louder and more muscular that that of SE although the sound signature remains the same. The benefit therefore of using the XLR throughput is purely the ability to easily drive more demanding loads and gives the option of reducing the gain if desired. This does leave more headroom on the volume adjustment. Curiously I have also found that when the SE input is used but the headphones are connected to the XLR output the output level is higher than when using the SE output but slightly quieter than if the XLR input is used in conjunction with the XLR output. In absolute terms I find this to be one of the better headphone amps that I have used. It is very linear and transparent and hugely powerful (via XLR). By comparison to the Rupert Neve amp is it more analytical in presentation and less fluid. Instruments tend to sound thinner and uncoloured. Soundstage is narrower than something like the Neve or a tube amp. To my mind headphone choice is important as the 789 will present the headphone’s sound signature as the manufacturer intended. The only criticism that I have is that on high gain with the volume turned right down the sound is still audible, but that’s not an issue for me. Some have commented on channel imbalance on the volume control but my unit is perfect in that respect. I have experimented with different psu’s but they made no difference to my ears. Accompanying equipment is either Quad Artera CDP / DAC or the Artera used as a CD transport into the SMSL SU-9 DAC via a Cardas 50ohm coax cable. My preferred partnering headphone is the ATH-R70x.
> I hope that helps.


----------



## tholt (Jan 27, 2021)

NickT23 said:


> Aesthetics


You mean the tiny-ass little Massdrop logo changed to a tiny-ass little Drop logo? 



pbarach said:


> I know what the instructions state, but this amp is not truly a balanced amp. You do get more power using the balanced outputs. See this review for some information from the amp's designer:
> https://darko.audio/2020/08/starting-points-drop-thxs-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/


I'm not disputing that. But it is quasi-balanced. My comment was to your 'no benefit to using the XLR inputs'. I disagree. It still makes sense to use the balanced inputs if you have a balanced DAC. But to each their own. the quote I cited in my last post was taken from that same article.



cel4145 said:


>



What is this about?


----------



## 540828

cel4145 said:


>


How strange ... ?


----------



## cel4145

tholt said:


> What is this about?



You didn't want to read the text in the image? 

https://navigateworks.com/breaking-down-the-wall-of-text/


----------



## tholt

cel4145 said:


> You didn't want to read the text in the image?
> 
> https://navigateworks.com/breaking-down-the-wall-of-text/


Ah, true.


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> Ah, true.


No ! The logo, branding, fonts/wording and the overall arrangement at the front and at the back. While front thick bold 'DROP' is eye sore.


----------



## tholt

NickT23 said:


> No ! The logo, branding, fonts/wording and the overall arrangement at the front and at the back. While front thick bold 'DROP' is eye sore.


The front and back layout and chassis are literally the same. The only things that changed are the logo, font style and volume knob. Talk about OCD

Old:




 
New:


----------



## bequietjk

Imo, aesthetically..

Massdrop edition > Drop edition


----------



## tholt

bequietjk said:


> Imo, aesthetically..
> 
> Massdrop edition > Drop edition


To me the aesthetic changes between the two are so small it's a non-issue.


----------



## tamleo

tholt said:


> The front and back layout and chassis are literally the same. The only things that changed are the logo, font style and volume knob. Talk about OCD
> 
> Old:
> 
> New:


Wow, they look like completely 2 "different" amps ))))


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> To me the aesthetic changes between the two are so small it's a non-issue.


Well its an issue for me for someone who cares about aesthetics.


----------



## NickT23

tholt said:


> The front and back layout and chassis are literally the same. The only things that changed are the logo, font style and volume knob. Talk about OCD
> 
> Old:
> 
> New:


Nope its not literally the same. Look at the font and the overall placing of the wording. The font and branding. That hideous "DROP + THX AAA 789" makes me wanna puke and dont even get me started on the volume knob indicator. eye sore nonetheless. As for the back, I can accept but still. Also picture does not do justice, Massdrop looks nicer, its special to most of us. Its utterly nonsense if you compare the lighter and darker shades of both Drop and Massdrop cause in reality, its not that.


----------



## NickT23

bequietjk said:


> Imo, aesthetically..
> 
> Massdrop edition > Drop edition


Well, that is majority opinion. Its a big issue if aesthetics are important !


----------



## bequietjk

I remember the time when I got excited by Massdrop emails to see what's on sale next!  Ah...  those days.


----------



## NickT23

Well, what about now ?


----------



## pbarach

What does the AUTO OFF/BYPASS switch (on the back) do?


----------



## tholt

NickT23 said:


> Nope its not literally the same. Look at the font and the overall placing of the wording. The font and branding. That hideous "DROP + THX AAA 789" makes me wanna puke and dont even get me started on the volume knob indicator. eye sore nonetheless. As for the back, I can accept but still. Also picture does not do justice, Massdrop looks nicer, its special to most of us. Its utterly nonsense if you compare the lighter and darker shades of both Drop and Massdrop cause in reality, its not that.


Ok.


----------



## George Hincapie

Just a small update from me.

I have been listening to this HPA for a week now and I really love it. It is so much more detailed and provides more separation than my Metrum Acoustics Aurix.

I've been using it SE with the AQ NightBird One cable to my AQ NightHawk Carbons, but have just ordered a balanced version of the cable from AQ so I can try balanced out as well.


----------



## pbarach

(bump)

What does the AUTO OFF/BYPASS switch (on the back) do?


----------



## marblerye

pbarach said:


> (bump)
> 
> What does the AUTO OFF/BYPASS switch (on the back) do?



If left switched on, the amp automatically turns off after 2 hours if it detects no signal has passed thru it. If you set it to bypass, the amp stays on forever until you manually turn it off.


----------



## iMongui

Regarding frontal connections, is there any difference in terms of performance, sound, etc etc if you use the 3.5 or the 6.5. I dont find any clear on the specs sheet so i suppose that they deliver the same and its just something like splitter with different connection but at the end, the same sound


----------



## George Hincapie

iMongui said:


> Regarding frontal connections, is there any difference in terms of performance, sound, etc etc if you use the 3.5 or the 6.5. I dont find any clear on the specs sheet so i suppose that they deliver the same and its just something like splitter with different connection but at the end, the same sound




Not that I've found; power is the same to both. You need to use the balanced to get the boost.


----------



## pbarach

George Hincapie said:


> Not that I've found; power is the same to both. You need to use the balanced to get the boost.


   This seem contradictory. If power is the same, then there would be no boost from balanced. Can you clarify?


----------



## eeagle

George Hincapie said:


> Not that I've found; power is the same to both. You need to use the balanced to get the boost.


@iMongui @pbarach  There is a large difference in the power provided:

*Balanced Output*


Output power: 6000 mW, 16 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
Output power: 6000 mW, 32 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
Output power: 800 mW, 300 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
Output power: 400 mW, 600 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)

*Single-Ended Output*


Output power: 3000 mW, 16 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
Output power: 1800 mW, 32 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
Output power: 200 mW, 300 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
Output power: 100 mW, 600 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
If you have efficient HPs and using the SE output you will be happy with the sound.  For inefficient HPs like Planar's it is best to use the XLR balance output.  

Since this amp is not truly balanced in to out providing a balance source will make little difference in the output.


----------



## cel4145

eeagle said:


> If you have efficient HPs and using the SE output you will be happy with the sound.  For inefficient HPs like Planar's it is best to use the XLR balance output.



Assuming one is not using a lot of bass EQ boost or listening very loud, there are a minute number of planar headphones that cannot be driven by the single-ended mode of the THX 789. 

I recommend using a headphone amp power calculator to estimate whether or not balanced is needed: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/


----------



## George Hincapie

pbarach said:


> This seem contradictory. If power is the same, then there would be no boost from balanced. Can you clarify?



My understanding is that the power supplied to both of the SE outputs is less than that supplied to the balanced out. I see someone has since posted with the actual figures.


----------



## NickT23

Hello guys. I finally got a new RCA cable, but apparently not sure about the volume control. Like my RCA from dac to amp, which volume control should I use, the 789 or my DAC ? If I put either 789 or my dac to zero volume, neither sound will come back on when either volume knob of dac or 789 is rotate clockwise for any level volume. But when put random volume level for both 789 and dac, there is sound and I cant tell the difference between dac volume and 789 volume levels.

Also, do note that my dac is an amp/dac (Hugo2). So therefore, like which shall be my main volume knob should control the volume of the music and general computer use ? Also, if its the 789 as my main volume knob, then what shall my dac volume should be ? 6 o clock ? Am very confuse ! Both running male rca to male rca.


----------



## tholt

NickT23 said:


> Hello guys. I finally got a new RCA cable, but apparently not sure about the volume control. Like my RCA from dac to amp, which volume control should I use, the 789 or my DAC ? If I put either 789 or my dac to zero volume, neither sound will come back on when either volume knob of dac or 789 is rotate clockwise for any level volume. But when put random volume level for both 789 and dac, there is sound and I cant tell the difference between dac volume and 789 volume levels.
> 
> Also, do note that my dac is an amp/dac (Hugo2). So therefore, like which shall be my main volume knob should control the volume of the music and general computer use ? Also, if its the 789 as my main volume knob, then what shall my dac volume should be ? 6 o clock ? Am very confuse ! Both running male rca to male rca.


If you can't disable the DAC volume knob, turn one all the way up and use the other as volume control.


----------



## George Hincapie

tholt said:


> If you can't disable the DAC volume knob, turn one all the way up and use the other as volume control.



This is what I had to do with my Adagio over the weekend. Just turn your DAC volume up full, then control actual volume using your HPA volume control. Make sure it's at lowest setting when you start!

@NickT23


----------



## NickT23

George Hincapie said:


> This is what I had to do with my Adagio over the weekend. Just turn your DAC volume up full, then control actual volume using your HPA volume control. Make sure it's at lowest setting when you start!
> 
> @NickT23


Alright but what happens if you use volume knob on your dac ?


----------



## George Hincapie

NickT23 said:


> Alright but what happens if you use volume knob on your dac ?



You can use either, but the one you aren't using must be at 100%. I hope that makes sense.


----------



## NickT23

George Hincapie said:


> You can use either, but the one you aren't using must be at 100%. I hope that makes sense.


Noted. But most people normally prefer the dac to be a line. Like for me, I activate 3v RMS line level mode to prevent double amping. Anyway, I figured out already. But do people actually use their dac as their main volume knob ? Is it normal ?


----------



## George Hincapie

NickT23 said:


> Noted. But most people normally prefer the dac to be a line. Like for me, I activate 3v RMS line level mode to prevent double amping. Anyway, I figured out already. But do people actually use their dac as their main volume knob ? Is it normal ?



I can't speak for anyone else, but I always have the DAC at 100% and control volume with the HPA. Try both and see which suits you.


----------



## NickT23

George Hincapie said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, but I always have the DAC at 100% and control volume with the HPA. Try both and see which suits you.


Do you feel like you double amping when you change the volume of your DAC ? Also, have you tried 100% HPA while using your DAC as your main volume knob ? (for the sake of testing purposes)


----------



## pbarach

I normally keep the volume of my DAC at 100%, but I will lower it when necessary because the 789 doesn't have a remote (the DAC does), and I sit too far away to keep jumping up if a song is too loud for comfort. I wish the 789 had a remote!


----------



## NickT23

pbarach said:


> I normally keep the volume of my DAC at 100%, but I will lower it when necessary because the 789 doesn't have a remote (the DAC does), and I sit too far away to keep jumping up if a song is too loud for comfort. I wish the 789 had a remote!


Then in that case, why not you use DAC as your main volume knob via remote ? 100% volume for 789 instead ? Wouldn't that be more convenient for you ? 

Is your 789 Drop or Massdrop ?


----------



## claud W

This is my computer headphone system. I recently added the 789 amp to use in breaking in some IEMs when my SPL Phonitor E became unhelpful. The E does not have adjustable gain, and after setting the volume, it later adjusts itself to Zero. I bought my 789 around 18 or so months ago and never opened the box until Sunday. I found a good deal on the E after the 789 shipped from Drop, so I did not need it until now. The E is still great listening to full size headphones, but it still has that damn quirk that only affects IEMs.


----------



## pbarach

NickT23 said:


> Then in that case, why not you use DAC as your main volume knob via remote ? 100% volume for 789 instead ? Wouldn't that be more convenient for you ?
> 
> Is your 789 Drop or Massdrop ?


  It's "Drop"; I've only had it for a couple of months. I don't want to use the DAC as the main volume control because many digital volume controls work by truncating bits in the digital signal--and I don't know if that's what is happening with my Topping D50s DAC. Also, the DAC volume is normally set at 0.0 dB (i.e., 100%), which means I can only lower the volume using the remote, and I can't raise it. I listen to a wide range of classical music that has considerable dynamic range. 

What was more _convenient _was the combo headphone amp/DAC that I used before (Marantz HD-DAC1), but the combination of DAC and separate amp that I have now has significantly improved my sound quality, whether over headphones or when the DAC is feeding my AVR and speakers.


----------



## tholt (Mar 10, 2021)

Just sort of a PSA. I've found that brass footers and weights noticeably bring out some fullness and presence from this amp. I did some playing around and found that placement matters, and bigger weights are better. It's a worthwhile experiment IMO, but the footers and weights cost more than the amp, lol. Mapleshade does have a 30 day money back if you want to try it. This really is a pretty great amp for the cost. The definition and layering are commendable.


----------



## Ichos

Hello , I have finally managed to listen and review this much discussed amplifier.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/drop-thx-aaa™-789-linear-amplifier.25038/review/25481/

Short version - I like it a lot.
Far from sounding boring and clinical.
A couple of shortcomings but at the end a great amplifier.


----------



## tholt

Ichos said:


> Hello , I have finally managed to listen and review this much discussed amplifier.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/drop-thx-aaa™-789-linear-amplifier.25038/review/25481/
> 
> ...


Nice write up. I agree that this amp deserves to be part of anyone's arsenal as a very 'truthful' amp. I've been using it as my daily driver for a few months now and have been enjoying it way more than I thought I ever would. But its price makes it an easy purchase to own just as a comparison tool.


----------



## Ichos

Thank you.
I completely agree with your last sentence.


----------



## George Hincapie

tholt said:


> Just sort of a PSA. I've found that brass footers and weights noticeably bring out some fullness and presence from this amp. I did some playing around and found that placement matters, and bigger weights are better. It's a worthwhile experiment IMO, but the footers and weights cost more than the amp, lol. Mapleshade does have a 30 day money back if you want to try it. This really is a pretty great amp for the cost. The definition and layering are commendable.



*Must resist the urge to call BS* Yeah, I'm not buying that those blocks make any difference whatsoever. Save your money people.

The Amp is excellent though, I love mine


----------



## tholt

George Hincapie said:


> *Must resist the urge to call BS* Yeah, I'm not buying that those blocks make any difference whatsoever. Save your money people.
> 
> The Amp is excellent though, I love mine


Says the person who hasn't tried it. Ok. Must be nice to have your psychic powers.

Makes zero difference to me if anyone tries anything, just thought I'd share my findings. And no, I have no relation to Mapleshade.


----------



## George Hincapie

tholt said:


> Says the person who hasn't tried it. Ok. Must be nice to have your psychic powers.
> 
> Makes zero difference to me if anyone tries anything, just thought I'd share my findings. And no, I have no relation to Mapleshade.



I don't need to jump off a cliff to know it's a bad idea...

It's BS. I know it is. You know it is. And I have tried products of a similar nature in the past. That's why I know they do nothing. Except relieve you of money.

Feel free to send them to Amir at ASR though and he'll test them and put the issue beyond doubt.


----------



## tholt

George Hincapie said:


> I don't need to jump off a cliff to know it's a bad idea...
> 
> It's BS. I know it is. You know it is. And I have tried products of a similar nature in the past. That's why I know they do nothing. Except relieve you of money.
> 
> Feel free to send them to Amir at ASR though and he'll test them and put the issue beyond doubt.


I hear you on tweaks. I've been down the road enough. Some work, most don't. I had some footers lying around and decided to just try them on this thing. I don't know, maybe because it's so light, but for whatever reason, I heard a positive change. Thought I'd share. That's it. But I definitely don't care enough to argue about it.


----------



## dedminton

at the very least it looks nice 🙂


----------



## tholt

dedminton said:


> at the very least it looks nice 🙂


Haha, it IS distinct!


----------



## George Hincapie

dedminton said:


> at the very least it looks nice 🙂



It really doesn't.


----------



## tholt

George Hincapie said:


> It really doesn't.


Are your shoelaces too tight George? Now you're just being laughable


----------



## KCXT

tholt said:


> I hear you on tweaks. I've been down the road enough. Some work, most don't. I had some footers lying around and decided to just try them on this thing. I don't know, maybe because it's so light, but for whatever reason, I heard a positive change. Thought I'd share. That's it. But I definitely don't care enough to argue about it.


What is your take on how this might physically impact a solid-state amplifier? I'm no expert but for the life of me can't think of a way this would make any kind of difference short of physically moving it away from some sort of interference. I own a 789 and it does pick up a slight hum when too close to my wireless phone charger while my Emotiva A-100 does not, or at least does not to an audible degree.


----------



## tamleo

Many audio-reviewing youtubers put those footers on their dac. They saids those footers really make the sound better. I think there's something to do with microphonics or oscillation. I put heavy things on my dac as well. It is easy to do and reassures me that my system is in optimal mode


----------



## tholt

KCXT said:


> What is your take on how this might physically impact a solid-state amplifier? I'm no expert but for the life of me can't think of a way this would make any kind of difference short of physically moving it away from some sort of interference. I own a 789 and it does pick up a slight hum when too close to my wireless phone charger while my Emotiva A-100 does not, or at least does not to an audible degree.


In general, footers are designed to drain or mitigate excess energy and vibration away from the component to increase resolution, lower distortion and provide an audibly cleaner and clearer result. IME, different materials do different things, and in practice results can vary widely -- better, worse or no difference at all. I've never been a fan of brass for most components because they seemed to exacerbate high frequency energy and tend toward being brighter and more metallic sounding (guess that makes sense considering they're brass). For whatever reason, this amp seems to respond well to these footers in my system. I surmised it might be because it's such a light amplifier, but I have no idea. It's always a crapshoot with tweaks like this. I don't think they would do anything toward blocking any EMI/RF interference, that's not their purpose. But I hear an audible improvement in the way I described above.

Weights have long been used on components to sort of do the same things as the footers -- decrease vibration. I've tried this a couple times on various components in the past and I heard no difference. However, on this particular amp, I do.


----------



## KCXT

tholt said:


> In general, footers are designed to drain or mitigate excess energy and vibration away from the component to increase resolution, lower distortion and provide an audibly cleaner and clearer result. IME, different materials do different things, and in practice results can vary widely -- better, worse or no difference at all. I've never been a fan of brass for most components because they seemed to exacerbate high frequency energy and tend toward being brighter and more metallic sounding (guess that makes sense considering they're brass). For whatever reason, this amp seems to respond well to these footers in my system. I surmised it might be because it's such a light amplifier, but I have no idea. It's always a crapshoot with tweaks like this. I don't think they would do anything toward blocking any EMI/RF interference, that's not their purpose. But I hear an audible improvement in the way I described above.
> 
> Weights have long been used on components to sort of do the same things as the footers -- decrease vibration. I've tried this a couple times on various components in the past and I heard no difference. However, on this particular amp, I do.


Vibrations from what though, and how do vibrations effect a solid-state circuit that's simply passing electricity through it? This isn't a speaker amp with subwoofers running and tubes to pick up microphonics and it would seemingly take a fair bit to destabilize any of the other components (see prior subwoofer comment) if it were affected at all. If you wanted to prove it you could turn around, play some music, and have someone start tapping on the amp when you aren't looking and see if you can tell the difference.


----------



## tholt

KCXT said:


> Vibrations from what though, and how do vibrations effect a solid-state circuit that's simply passing electricity through it? This isn't a speaker amp with subwoofers running and tubes to pick up microphonics and it would seemingly take a fair bit to destabilize any of the other components (see prior subwoofer comment) if it were affected at all. If you wanted to prove it you could turn around, play some music, and have someone start tapping on the amp when you aren't looking and see if you can tell the difference.


Honestly, a lot of the marketing material for these types of tweaks can be pretty eyebrow-raising stuff in terms of believability. There's probably some truth behind it but in the end (for me at least), hearing is believing. My take is that vibrations (if there are any) are probably minimal. What could be vibrating inside the chassis, unless you've got a massive power supply and some sort of physical hum, or maybe tubes prone to microphonics or the like. Something with moving parts like a TT or disc player, perhaps more so. But it could be that even minute vibrations could translate to smearing or a level of audible distortion, especially when you're listening through high fidelity headphones. 

What I surmise is that the physical material of the footer in contact with the chassis makes more of a difference to what you might hear. If you try different types of footers (brass, wood, rubber etc) you'll probably hear a difference, and differences between them. At least I have and do. But I can't get into the weeds behind the science since honestly I couldn't really care less. It's the same thing behind 'bits are bits' and all cables should sound equal, etc etc. You're getting into murky territory. I'm much more simple -- do I hear a difference, ok. Do I like the difference? Ok or not ok.


----------



## Duxxy

I bought a 789 from an ebayer and I think he sent the wrong power supply.

https://www.amazon.com/LeTaoXing-100V-240V-Switching-Transformer-Converter/dp/B08HQS8TS4/

Would this work as a replacement?

edit: The power supply that was sent was a small 12v/2a brick. Not the inline power supply I was expecting.


----------



## Ichos

Yes it will work as it is rated appropriately.
I suggest a Meanwell power adapter.


----------



## Sanlitun (Aug 26, 2021)

It looks like this thread has really slowed down. As well I see a lot of THX 789 for sale. Anyone here still using their 789? If not what have you moved on to?

I bought mine last winter when it was at it's lowest price out of curiousity. I didn't like it at the time and it didn't match well with my phones or DAC. I recently made some changes and wanted to put a second system together. Dug it out of the closet and this time around I think I am feeling the magic. It feels lush and thick, and there is more depth. This is with my Elears and gain set to 2. I suppose it still will be incompatible with my LCD-X.

Anyone still using theirs?


----------



## KingKrush

Sanlitun said:


> It looks like this thread has really slowed down. As well I see a lot of THX 789 for sale. Anyone here still using their 789? If not what have you moved on to?
> 
> I bought mine last winter when it was at it's lowest price out of curiousity. I didn't like it at the time and it didn't match well with my phones or DAC. I recently made some changes and wanted to put a second system together. Dug it out of the closet and this time around I think I am feeling the magic. This time around it feels lush and thick, and there is more depth. This is with my Elears and gain set to 2. I suppose it still will be incompatible with my LCD-X.
> 
> Anyone still using theirs?


Yeah, every single day for many hours. I've got it with the Audioengine D1 and ORA GQ headphones. To my ears, they sound incredible together.


----------



## iMongui

Using every day since 1 year ago with Grace balanced dac and omg, it sounds veeeeeery nice...


----------



## bcaulf17

Sanlitun said:


> It looks like this thread has really slowed down. As well I see a lot of THX 789 for sale. Anyone here still using their 789? If not what have you moved on to?
> 
> I bought mine last winter when it was at it's lowest price out of curiousity. I didn't like it at the time and it didn't match well with my phones or DAC. I recently made some changes and wanted to put a second system together. Dug it out of the closet and this time around I think I am feeling the magic. It feels lush and thick, and there is more depth. This is with my Elears and gain set to 2. I suppose it still will be incompatible with my LCD-X.
> 
> Anyone still using theirs?


Just a lot more competition these days and cheaper amps perform really well. The 789 is still great.


----------



## aloki

Sanlitun said:


> It looks like this thread has really slowed down. As well I see a lot of THX 789 for sale. Anyone here still using their 789? If not what have you moved on to?
> 
> I bought mine last winter when it was at it's lowest price out of curiousity. I didn't like it at the time and it didn't match well with my phones or DAC. I recently made some changes and wanted to put a second system together. Dug it out of the closet and this time around I think I am feeling the magic. It feels lush and thick, and there is more depth. This is with my Elears and gain set to 2. I suppose it still will be incompatible with my LCD-X.
> 
> Anyone still using theirs?


I use mine with any sub 300 ohm impedance headphones. I leave those for my Magni, which even on low, gets way too loud with any other headphones. I love the THX for its crystal clear sound. The Magni has a bit more oomph, but the THX is more accurate.


----------



## PointyFox

I still use mine. Powerful enough for any headphone, measures in the top 1% of amps, very low output impedance. The only reason to spend more is to spend more.


----------



## cel4145

Sanlitun said:


> It looks like this thread has really slowed down. As well I see a lot of THX 789 for sale. Anyone here still using their 789? If not what have you moved on to?
> 
> I bought mine last winter when it was at it's lowest price out of curiousity. I didn't like it at the time and it didn't match well with my phones or DAC. I recently made some changes and wanted to put a second system together. Dug it out of the closet and this time around I think I am feeling the magic. It feels lush and thick, and there is more depth. This is with my Elears and gain set to 2. I suppose it still will be incompatible with my LCD-X.
> 
> Anyone still using theirs?



I have mine. I got it to replace my Atom amp. I wanted to the better volume knob and the heavier weight (the Atom is very light and moves around when trying to plug/unplug). 

And the RCA passthrough actually works better for me than preamp outs since I'm using a speaker amp with its own volume control.  I don't even have to turn on the THX 789, as the passthrough is active without power to the 789.


----------



## Vvnz100

iMongui said:


> Using every day since 1 year ago with Grace balanced dac and omg, it sounds veeeeeery nice...


Same setup here, since 2 years, and same pleasure! Better with my LCD 2 Classic than with my TH-X00…


----------



## pbarach

I'm using my 789 with a Topping D50s and Focal Clear or Senn HD600. The system sounds great with anything I listen to (95% classical, 5% jazz).


----------



## lgcubana

Currently $199, directly from mDrop: link to Drop.com


----------



## craiglester (Sep 27, 2021)

lgcubana said:


> Currently $199, directly from mDrop: link to Drop.com


Just picked one up for that price, seems like a bargain at that price for what you get. Let's see how it powers my k340s 🤔

Update: not quite up to powering the K340 in SE mode. Might go for balanced..


----------



## nicdub

I also picked one up at that price and have been trying it out with a couple of IEMs, namely the Andromeda 2020 and the Vega 2020.  One thing I have noticed, and this is probably particularly true with really sensitive IEMs, is with the gain set to its lowest and the volume turned all the way down, I can still hear music playing.  A minor annoyance, certainly not a deal-breaker, but I'm curious if others are experiencing this.  I am using the Grace m900 as a DAC with the volume of the Grace set to 90, per the manual.


----------



## nicdub

Double post.


----------



## Virgil (Sep 27, 2021)

I took advantage of the $200 sale and bought a 789 to compare it to my Schiit Heresy. I was amazed at the transformation, it was actually a game-changer for me. I think that I'd gotten used to my Heresy's quirks; loss of channel when lowering volume in low-gain mode, static when turning the volume pot, occasional hums & assorted other noise. The quietness of the 789 makes listening to my headphone collection a far more enjoyable experience. I did not expect that.


----------



## VanHai

I wish that i wait and save $200.00. Bought it 3 years ago and still remains one of my favorite amps. I own many SS and tube amps, THX 789 has power to drive all my headphones and provides beautiful sound to darker headphones. Some people diss the 789 because of many  newer amps and newer does not mean better.


----------



## saratoga1740

Has anyone experienced the 789 picking up interference from mobile phone signal? It happens during every call even without any input plugged in. The phone is not even that close to it. I'm really surprised because I have never experienced anything like that with any amp.


----------



## TJ Max

saratoga1740 said:


> Has anyone experienced the 789 picking up interference from mobile phone signal? It happens during every call even without any input plugged in. The phone is not even that close to it. I'm really surprised because I have never experienced anything like that with any amp.



Nope my cell phone and wiresless router are in the same room as my 789 and 887 and I never had issues. The only thing I can think of is improperlly shielded connectors on your audio cables. I'd swap them out as an experiment.


----------



## saratoga1740

TJ Max said:


> Nope my cell phone and wiresless router are in the same room as my 789 and 887 and I never had issues. The only thing I can think of is improperlly shield connectors on your audio cables. Id swap them out as an experiment.


Well, as I said before it happens even when there is no input plugged in so it can't be the RCA cables (which never did that before). And when I unplug the headphones (which never did that before) it cuts off immediately. The only thing left is to wrap up the 789 in aluminium to see if it helps, but even without that I have no idea how could the problem be anywhere else than the 789 itself.


----------



## TJ Max

saratoga1740 said:


> Well, as I said before it happens even when there is no input plugged in so it can't be the RCA cables (which never did that before). And when I unplug the headphones (which never did that before) it cuts off immediately. The only thing left is to wrap up the 789 in aluminium to see if it helps, but even without that I have no idea how could the problem be anywhere else than the 789 itself.


It stop when you unplug your headphone? Are they balanced or single ended? Are you able to swap the cable or remove the 6.3mm adapter if there is one? If you cant trace it to a cable or connector then its like a faulty 789.


----------



## saratoga1740

Tried different headphones and it's the same. Tried both single ended connectors (don't have a balanced cable yet). So it seems the shielding of the 789 is faulty=(


----------



## LillaGrynet

saratoga1740 said:


> Has anyone experienced the 789 picking up interference from mobile phone signal? It happens during every call even without any input plugged in. The phone is not even that close to it. I'm really surprised because I have never experienced anything like that with any amp.


I have also noticed this. If I have my phone next to the amp I hear interference. It goes away if I put my phone further away from the amp.


----------



## saratoga1740

LillaGrynet said:


> I have also noticed this. If I have my phone next to the amp I hear interference. It goes away if I put my phone further away from the amp.


Well I'm using my phone less than a meter from the amp (it's at my office desk). I mean I don't consider it to be normal audio gear behaviour=/


----------



## VanHai

This is very unusual, must be a new batch of Drop THX 789. I bought my over 3 years ago when it was MassDrop and i also have THX 887 plus 3 other tube amps. I always put my cell phone in front of the THX 789 and 887 and nothing happens.


----------



## saratoga1740

You are right, it's from May 2021. I will try to contact the Drop, but since I'm in EU and not the original buyer, i'm not sure what to expect even if they acknowledge the device as defective.


----------



## NickT23

VanHai said:


> This is very unusual, must be a new batch of Drop THX 789. I bought my over 3 years ago when it was MassDrop and i also have THX 887 plus 3 other tube amps. I always put my cell phone in front of the THX 789 and 887 and nothing happens.


Do you have the Massdrop or Drop version for the THX 789 ?


----------



## LillaGrynet

NickT23 said:


> Do you have the Massdrop or Drop version for the THX 789 ?


Mine is a Drop version from maybe a year ago or something.


----------



## NickT23

LillaGrynet said:


> Mine is a Drop version from maybe a year ago or something.


Well apology you dint get the massdrop version.


----------



## saratoga1740

LillaGrynet said:


> Mine is a Drop version from maybe a year ago or something.


Mine too and VanHai probably has Massdrop version.


----------



## NickT23

saratoga1740 said:


> Mine too and VanHai probably has Massdrop version.


I have the Massdrop variant. Very sorry you guys dont have Massdrop.


----------



## LillaGrynet

NickT23 said:


> I have the Massdrop variant. Very sorry you guys dont have Massdrop





NickT23 said:


> I have the Massdrop variant. Very sorry you guys dont have Massdrop.


For me it is not a big problem. If I move my phone to the other side of my desk any interference disappears.


----------



## saratoga1740

LillaGrynet said:


> For me it is not a big problem. If I move my phone to the other side of my desk any interference disappears.


I don't have that much space to move the phone as my desk is small=D


----------



## Powermankw

Hey guys... I have a Matrix Mini-i Pro 3. I think it sounds good with my Utopias and black dragon. However, it does have a high output impedance. (22). I was thinking of adding the 789 with balanced connects to see if it would do better. I do want transparency. Anyone know if this would go well together? (Or if it would be an improvement)

Thanks.


----------



## kumar402

Powermankw said:


> Hey guys... I have a Matrix Mini-i Pro 3. I think it sounds good with my Utopias and black dragon. However, it does have a high output impedance. (22). I was thinking of adding the 789 with balanced connects to see if it would do better. I do want transparency. Anyone know if this would go well together? (Or if it would be an improvement)
> 
> Thanks.


I personally would not pair Utopia with 789. It will sound boxed in. But that’s just me


----------



## NickT23

By the way, anyone of you tried pairing any headphones that the THX 789 unable to drive to its peak performance ? Headphones such as vintage cans, 600 ohm cans, high sensitivity dynamic and planar or even super efficient/inefficient iems.


----------



## Powermankw

kumar402 said:


> I personally would not pair Utopia with 789. It will sound boxed in. But that’s just me


Good to know. Thank you.


----------



## geoffalter11

I didn’t love the 789 with any headphone. That is just me, and I know not the most popular viewpoint. I will say this, the amp is incredibly clean and powerful. My issue is that it lacks a bit of Je Ne Sais Quoi. The soundstage always felt compressed and lacked air, which made it feel like I couldn’t hear the space between the notes. There is no doubt it faithfully reproduces an amplified signal completely free of grain, hash or any hint of distortion. It is dead quiet.

I would agree with the above sentiment that the Utopia wouldn’t be its optimal pairing. I did like the Quad Era-1 with the 789, and I also found the Alpha Prime to be a good pairing. Both headphones have extremely musical presentations. In my opinion, the 789 needs an R2R DAC and a headphone with a touch of warmth to balance out its analytical and sterile nature. 

For the money, I have yet to hear a better amp. If my budget was $300 for an amp, that is what I would get.


----------



## Voxata

geoffalter11 said:


> I didn’t love the 789 with any headphone. That is just me, and I know not the most popular viewpoint. I will say this, the amp is incredibly clean and powerful. My issue is that it lacks a bit of Je Ne Sais Quoi. The soundstage always felt compressed and lacked air, which made it feel like I couldn’t hear the space between the notes. There is no doubt it faithfully reproduces an amplified signal completely free of grain, hash or any hint of distortion. It is dead quiet.
> 
> I would agree with the above sentiment that the Utopia wouldn’t be its optimal pairing. I did like the Quad Era-1 with the 789, and I also found the Alpha Prime to be a good pairing. Both headphones have extremely musical presentations. In my opinion, the 789 needs an R2R DAC and a headphone with a touch of warmth to balance out its analytical and sterile nature.
> 
> For the money, I have yet to hear a better amp. If my budget was $300 for an amp, that is what I would get.



Great impressions! I rather enjoyed the 789 with the HD600 & HD660S - was a great pairing with these intimate and smooth headphones. The clean nature of the amp helped those cans shine.


----------



## geoffalter11

Voxata said:


> Great impressions! I rather enjoyed the 789 with the HD600 & HD660S - was a great pairing with these intimate and smooth headphones. The clean nature of the amp helped those cans shine.


I see you have a Dynahi. That is more to my preference with amps. I just had a CFA3 built and it arrived this past week.


----------



## Voxata

geoffalter11 said:


> I see you have a Dynahi. That is more to my preference with amps. I just had a CFA3 built and it arrived this past week.


Nice! I've heard CFA3 is a great amp as well. The Dynahi has been incredible despite it's equally incredible footprint. It's larger than my speaker amps! I favor it GREATLY to the 789.


----------



## geoffalter11

Voxata said:


> Nice! I've heard CFA3 is a great amp as well. The Dynahi has been incredible despite it's equally incredible footprint. It's larger than my speaker amps! I favor it GREATLY to the 789.


Yes, I would agree. The CFA3 is significantly more to my liking than the 789. It is huge. My only issue with it is its size. My other amp is a Cembalo Labs Spring 1, which is also more to my preference. Absolutely love the Spring 1.


----------



## Voxata

geoffalter11 said:


> Yes, I would agree. The CFA3 is significantly more to my liking than the 789. It is huge. My only issue with it is its size. My other amp is a Cembalo Labs Spring 1, which is also more to my preference. Absolutely love the Spring 1.


Nice an SE out! Don't see those too often on CFA3s yeah? One thing I like and dislike at the same time about my Dynahi is the SE only nature of it. Keeps things simple and easy. I've noticed the Dynahi really likes a clean DAC though. The RME ADI-2 FS Dac does the trick perfectly. Much better than the Bifrost 2/Gungnir MB did in pairing.


----------



## adeadcrab

geoffalter11 said:


> I didn’t love the 789 with any headphone. That is just me, and I know not the most popular viewpoint. I will say this, the amp is incredibly clean and powerful. My issue is that it lacks a bit of Je Ne Sais Quoi. The soundstage always felt compressed and lacked air, which made it feel like I couldn’t hear the space between the notes. There is no doubt it faithfully reproduces an amplified signal completely free of grain, hash or any hint of distortion. It is dead quiet.


The only headphones that I like with the 789 are my Meze Rai Penta IEMs.
My very first ever headphone amp from 2008 is leaps and bounds ahead of the 789 (Meier Corda Arietta). It is my current go-to with the Sennheiser HD800S.
The 789 is a flat piece of paper, the Arietta is an opened book - dimensionality, space, timbre are all enhanced.


----------



## geoffalter11

Voxata said:


> Nice an SE out! Don't see those too often on CFA3s yeah? One thing I like and dislike at the same time about my Dynahi is the SE only nature of it. Keeps things simple and easy. I've noticed the Dynahi really likes a clean DAC though. The RME ADI-2 FS Dac does the trick perfectly. Much better than the Bifrost 2/Gungnir MB did in pairing.


Yeah, I had him out a SE output and also SE inputs on the back. The amp is pushing 16 watts into 50 ohms and I have a couple pretty efficient headphones that I feel benefit from less gain.

That is interesting on the DAC. The RME is a great DAC all around, so I can see why you like it. I am using the Pontus II with my headamps which I love. I had a TEAC UD-505 before the Pontus which is more similar to the RME than the Pontus.


----------



## geoffalter11

adeadcrab said:


> The only headphones that I like with the 789 are my Meze Rai Penta IEMs.
> My very first ever headphone amp from 2008 is leaps and bounds ahead of the 789 (Meier Corda Arietta). It is my current go-to with the Sennheiser HD800S.
> The 789 is a flat piece of paper, the Arietta is an opened book - dimensionality, space, timbre are all enhanced.


agreed.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

geoffalter11 said:


> In my opinion, the 789 needs an R2R DAC and a headphone with a touch of warmth to balance out its analytical and sterile nature.


I quite liked using ZMF Aeolus with the 789 and a Bifrost 2. That quite what you  seem to be saying would work.


----------



## geoffalter11

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I quite liked using ZMF Aeolus with the 789 and a Bifrost 2. That quite what you  seem to be saying would work.


Yeah, that is my opinion. Just one of many, though. Best part of the hobby is that we all like and hear different things.


----------



## pbarach

I like the 789 with Focal Clear original model as well as with HD-600. Haven't ever heard Utopias.


----------



## nealx2021

FYI the $200 promotion is here again https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier


----------



## geoffalter11

nealx2021 said:


> FYI the $200 promotion is here again https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier


Good buy. The SMSL version is like $129 too.


----------



## jonathan c

geoffalter11 said:


> I didn’t love the 789 with any headphone. That is just me, and I know not the most popular viewpoint. I will say this, the amp is incredibly clean and powerful. My issue is that it lacks a bit of Je Ne Sais Quoi. The soundstage always felt compressed and lacked air, which made it feel like I couldn’t hear the space between the notes. There is no doubt it faithfully reproduces an amplified signal completely free of grain, hash or any hint of distortion. It is dead quiet.
> 
> I would agree with the above sentiment that the Utopia wouldn’t be its optimal pairing. I did like the Quad Era-1 with the 789, and I also found the Alpha Prime to be a good pairing. Both headphones have extremely musical presentations. In my opinion, the 789 needs an R2R DAC and a headphone with a touch of warmth to balance out its analytical and sterile nature.


~ A step further…for digital sources, the THX AAA 789 needs an R2R DAC with tubes (or an R2R DAC plus an external tube buffer). Of the first, MHDT Labs DACs come to mind: Istanbul, Orchid, Pagoda. This is suggested only if one wants their reproduced music to be _lifelike_. If not,…🤷🏻.


----------



## geoffalter11

jonathan c said:


> ~ A step further…for digital sources, the THX AAA 789 needs an R2R DAC with tubes (or an R2R DAC plus an external tube buffer). Of the first, MHDT Labs DACs come to mind: Istanbul, Orchid, Pagoda. This is suggested only if one wants their reproduced music to be _lifelike_. If not,…🤷🏻.


Agreed.


----------



## billymisfits

geoffalter11 said:


> I didn’t love the 789 with any headphone. That is just me, and I know not the most popular viewpoint. I will say this, the amp is incredibly clean and powerful. My issue is that it lacks a bit of Je Ne Sais Quoi. The soundstage always felt compressed and lacked air, which made it feel like I couldn’t hear the space between the notes. There is no doubt it faithfully reproduces an amplified signal completely free of grain, hash or any hint of distortion. It is dead quiet.
> 
> I would agree with the above sentiment that the Utopia wouldn’t be its optimal pairing. I did like the Quad Era-1 with the 789, and I also found the Alpha Prime to be a good pairing. Both headphones have extremely musical presentations. In my opinion, the 789 needs an R2R DAC and a headphone with a touch of warmth to balance out its analytical and sterile nature.
> 
> For the money, I have yet to hear a better amp. If my budget was $300 for an amp, that is what I would get.


I purchased the THX 789 for $200 during the end of year sale.  I paired it with the Denafrips Ares II.  Even with the R2R DAC I found the sound to be very harsh.  I tried the setup with Focal Clear, LCD-2C, HD 6XX, and U12t's.  I couldn't find any pairing that sounded good to my ears.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone raves about this amp?  I also found that the single ended output was basically unusable.  As harsh as the sound was coming out of the balanced output I will admit that the sound was very clean albeit fatiguing af.  From the single ended output I still got a hard edged sound but the music was muddy to say the least.  Simply put it sounded like garbage. Even at the discounted price of $200 I felt the amp was not worthwhile.  I owned the Schiit Magnius for a short time which I purchased from the Schiit website for $200.  That amp was leagues better than the 789 but for some reason 789 gets all the attention.  What gives?


----------



## geoffalter11

billymisfits said:


> I purchased the THX 789 for $200 during the end of year sale.  I paired it with the Denafrips Ares II.  Even with the R2R DAC I found the sound to be very harsh.  I tried the setup with Focal Clear, LCD-2C, HD 6XX, and U12t's.  I couldn't find any pairing that sounded good to my ears.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone raves about this amp?  I also found that the single ended output was basically unusable.  As harsh as the sound was coming out of the balanced output I will admit that the sound was very clean albeit fatiguing af.  From the single ended output I still got a hard edged sound but the music was muddy to say the least.  Simply put it sounded like garbage. Even at the discounted price of $200 I felt the amp was not worthwhile.  I owned the Schiit Magnius for a short time which I purchased from the Schiit website for $200.  That amp was leagues better than the 789 but for some reason 789 gets all the attention.  What gives?


I am sorry your experience was not good. I am not surprised/ I was trying to be diplomatic in my impressions. Hopefully you find your right amp. I would suggest going a bit deeper into amp tech, especially for the quality of your headphones. Not sure your budget, but the Singxer SDA-1 is quite good. The A90 is also very good, although I can’t work for that corporation. Also look at the Flux Labs stuff. They make great amps at all price ranges. Although they start a bit higher than the 789. The Pathos Aurium is also an amazing amp. For my ears the best $500 amp is the Headamp Gilmore Lite MK2. If you get the GRLV with it you will get an amazing chain for your wonderful headphones.


----------



## geoffalter11

billymisfits said:


> I purchased the THX 789 for $200 during the end of year sale.  I paired it with the Denafrips Ares II.  Even with the R2R DAC I found the sound to be very harsh.  I tried the setup with Focal Clear, LCD-2C, HD 6XX, and U12t's.  I couldn't find any pairing that sounded good to my ears.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone raves about this amp?  I also found that the single ended output was basically unusable.  As harsh as the sound was coming out of the balanced output I will admit that the sound was very clean albeit fatiguing af.  From the single ended output I still got a hard edged sound but the music was muddy to say the least.  Simply put it sounded like garbage. Even at the discounted price of $200 I felt the amp was not worthwhile.  I owned the Schiit Magnius for a short time which I purchased from the Schiit website for $200.  That amp was leagues better than the 789 but for some reason 789 gets all the attention.  What gives?


The distortion numbers are vanishingly low on the 789 which is in my opinion the reason the amp is so beloved. 

I just read your page. Looks like you found two very capable amps for your system.

How is everything sounding now?


----------



## NickT23

Hello guys had the Massdrop THX 789 purchased on 2019 so no more warranty, either way Drop CS sucks anyhow. Currently using alternative neutral amp. Does the THX 789 have short circuit over protection overdrive mode to protect the internal circuitry design if more voltage is added. For instance, running other amp PSU 30V 1.25A to the 789 24 V 1.8A. 

For whatever reaso_n, my THX 789 remains at red LED and does not turn white LED even after 30 minutes_. It has never happened before though, and regardless whether it has overprotection circuit or not, I did use the stock 24 V 1.8A but does not turn white still remains at red. Then I tried other amp PSU 30V 1.25A to the 789 24 V 1.8A, still remains at red. Point is, I did use the stock PSU provided for THX 789 before I use other PSU which has higher voltage difference of 6V. 

*Is the Red LED not turning to white LED is a common dilemma for most people ?* Quite odd.


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 14, 2022)

If you actually tried the 30v power supply on the 24v amp, the damage may be lasting…


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> If you actually tried the 30v power supply on the 24v amp, the damage may be lasting…


Well yea, but I used the 24v psu on 24v amp first still cant turn to white LED. There could be other root of the problem so just curious of what others think !


----------



## Voxata

NickT23 said:


> Well yea, but I used the 24v psu on 24v amp first still cant turn to white LED. There could be other root of the problem so just curious of what others think !


Without opening the amp, checking the circuit for problems testing the PSU etc. it's all a guessing game.


----------



## bcaulf17

billymisfits said:


> I purchased the THX 789 for $200 during the end of year sale.  I paired it with the Denafrips Ares II.  Even with the R2R DAC I found the sound to be very harsh.  I tried the setup with Focal Clear, LCD-2C, HD 6XX, and U12t's.  I couldn't find any pairing that sounded good to my ears.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone raves about this amp?  I also found that the single ended output was basically unusable.  As harsh as the sound was coming out of the balanced output I will admit that the sound was very clean albeit fatiguing af.  From the single ended output I still got a hard edged sound but the music was muddy to say the least.  Simply put it sounded like garbage. Even at the discounted price of $200 I felt the amp was not worthwhile.  I owned the Schiit Magnius for a short time which I purchased from the Schiit website for $200.  That amp was leagues better than the 789 but for some reason 789 gets all the attention.  What gives?


I used to use my HD6XX on them and never thought it sounded harsh. A little harsh at times with Clear but the Clear has a couple treble peaks anyway. Isn’t the point of this amp that it sounds like nothing? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Ichos

It's been a long time since I reviewed this one but I don't remember it being bright nor harsh.
Lean and analytical yes, harsh no.


----------



## cel4145

bcaulf17 said:


> I used to use my HD6XX on them and never thought it sounded harsh. A little harsh at times with Clear but the Clear has a couple treble peaks anyway. Isn’t the point of this amp that it sounds like nothing? 🤷‍♂️



I agree. If a headphone sounds harsh on the THX 789, it's the headphone that sounds harsh, not the amp. And EQ is a great way to tame that.


----------



## billymisfits

geoffalter11 said:


> I am sorry your experience was not good. I am not surprised/ I was trying to be diplomatic in my impressions. Hopefully you find your right amp. I would suggest going a bit deeper into amp tech, especially for the quality of your headphones. Not sure your budget, but the Singxer SDA-1 is quite good. The A90 is also very good, although I can’t work for that corporation. Also look at the Flux Labs stuff. They make great amps at all price ranges. Although they start a bit higher than the 789. The Pathos Aurium is also an amazing amp. For my ears the best $500 amp is the Headamp Gilmore Lite MK2. If you get the GRLV with it you will get an amazing chain for your wonderful headphones.


I'm currently using the Singxer SA-1 as my daily desktop amp.  Paired with the Ares II the amp really sings.  I've also owned the A90 which I actually really like too.  I value your recommendations as we both seem to have similar tastes.  Thanks!


----------



## geoffalter11

I bet the Singxer and Ares are making a wonderful chain.

I just got an Icon Audio HP8 Signature. It is rocking my world right now. Especially with my Auteurs. I have had the same SS amp for the past 18 months . I just can’t seem to find anything I like more. The company who made it went out of business in 2018. I believe I have the only one left on Head-Fi. It is such a cool amp. I got lucky finding it and it was the best chance I have taken in this hobby.

What headphone are you liking most with your SDA-1? I bet your XC sounds great on it. As does your 2C. I used to own the Clear. Great headphone. It was too efficient for my amp and so I traded it for my current daily driver. The Code X.

You have definitely moved up the line from the 789. I get why people like it, but I had the same experience as you. I don’t think I gave it more than 10 hrs before I sold it. I hated it from the first song. Clean, powerful and blah. Maybe not the best thing to say on this thread. I apologize to anyone I have offended.


----------



## billymisfits

geoffalter11 said:


> The distortion numbers are vanishingly low on the 789 which is in my opinion the reason the amp is so beloved.
> 
> I just read your page. Looks like you found two very capable amps for your system.
> 
> How is everything sounding now?


I am very satisfied with my current setup.  Satisfied to the point that I feel like I don't need to buy another amp ever again.  I will say though that I am very curious to hear what a good tube amp sounds like.  I've done some research on the Feliks Audio Euforia.  I think the amp is absolutely gorgeous.  Will need to start saving for a while as that amp is pretty pricey.  Cheers!


----------



## geoffalter11

billymisfits said:


> I am very satisfied with my current setup.  Satisfied to the point that I feel like I don't need to buy another amp ever again.  I will say though that I am very curious to hear what a good tube amp sounds like.  I've done some research on the Feliks Audio Euforia.  I think the amp is absolutely gorgeous.  Will need to start saving for a while as that amp is pretty pricey.  Cheers!


Love tube amps. I went the route of the Icon HP8. Hand wound copper transformer with beautiful CV181 tubes. Same tubes the Euforia uses. The Eurforia is an awesome amp.

That is no fun to just stop at the SDA-1. There is so much fun stuff to try. End Game is a myth. We are constantly evolving the way we hear and the more we listen the more we change. It’s like our palates. The more we taste the more refined our palates become. You will want to change it up. If you change a piece in your chain, you may need to change other things to find balance once again. Or maybe not.


----------



## jonathan c

billymisfits said:


> I am very satisfied with my current setup.  Satisfied to the point that I feel like I don't need to buy another amp ever again.  I will say though that I am very curious to hear what a good tube amp sounds like.  I've done some research on the Feliks Audio Euforia.  I think the amp is absolutely gorgeous.  Will need to start saving for a while as that amp is pretty pricey.  Cheers!


Once again 🤨, I’ll say it 🤪……the _urge_ to upgrade can strike _any _Head-Fier at _any_ time without warning and without regard to finances…


----------



## geoffalter11

jonathan c said:


> Once again 🤨, I’ll say it 🤪……the _urge_ to upgrade can strike _any _Head-Fier at _any_ time without warning and without regard to finances…


Because the journey is the prize. Once again Jonathan we are 100% aligned. Seems like that happens pretty much always.


----------



## NickT23

Voxata said:


> Without opening the amp, checking the circuit for problems testing the PSU etc. it's all a guessing game.


I have no knowledge about it and not hands on. I probably would not be able to put back in parts. Also, I received your notification for pm, so will check it out.


----------



## yeboyi

Why Drop didn't made a sequel for this amp. It's kinda outdated right now. I wonder if it sells well.

I remember it sounding like a ghost. Light feet, ethereal, airy, neutral but smooth. Maybe sterile but not bright or harsh. Highly technical imo.

They should modernize it a bit and made a matching dac and cut the price. It would sell like hot cake.


----------



## NickT23

yeboyi said:


> Why Drop didn't made a sequel for this amp. It's kinda outdated right now. I wonder if it sells well.
> 
> I remember it sounding like a ghost. Light feet, ethereal, airy, neutral but smooth. Maybe sterile but not bright or harsh. Highly technical imo.
> 
> They should modernize it a bit and made a matching dac and cut the price. It would sell like hot cake.


Maybe because they dont see any reason to do it. Because they have other focus and priorities on other segment of the business. Also, I can tell they dislike competition. I mean why would you modernize your product when you have plethora of options in the market.


----------



## jbarrentine

I stopped chasing anything after getting this amp. That's the way life should be.


----------



## NickT23

jbarrentine said:


> I stopped chasing anything after getting this amp. That's the way life should be.


Yea ! But are you referring to the THX 789 ?


----------



## eliwankenobi

So far the only issue I've had with the 789 is that after warranty expired.. I started to experience a scratchy/crackle sound when changing the volume.... The volume pot is not the best, but apparently this happens to many analogue volume pots... A good solution so far has been to turn the volume fully up and before turning it ON. It helps keep the volume pot lubricated. Other than that my only wish is that there was a higher quality version of this amp with a better pot and other components, etc so the thing could confortably be warranted for at least 3 years.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Now, i may the only one to think it, but a newer version with AAA 888 to keep up the newer headphones with the better and faster N52 neodynium magnets, would be an audiophile heaven...


----------



## eliwankenobi

Viper Necklampy said:


> Now, i may the only one to think it, but a newer version with AAA 888 to keep up the newer headphones with the better and faster N52 neodynium magnets, would be an audiophile heaven...


I second this 100%!  Indeed, more power and better components. And now that we are at it.. Perhaps preamp functionality as well..


----------



## NickT23

eliwankenobi said:


> I second this 100%!  Indeed, more power and better components. And now that we are at it.. Perhaps preamp functionality as well..


But then again, we have other THX 888 in the market. Why would drop create another THX 888 when they have other development on going with other segments if that make sense. But honestly, if you ask me, I kinda want THX 888 to be implemented but then again, I dislike the Drop design.


----------



## KCXT

Had mine for about 2 years now and, while I compared it with a Liquid Spark when I first received it, I haven't had any desire for anything else. Pairing it with a Topping E50 seemed to give a bit of roundness and running balance is now giving me access to the full power... even my HE6se v2s sing now. It fits perfectly on my desk, sounds great, and powers anything I can throw at it... what more can one ask for? Currently getting slammed by my HE-500s powered by the 789 and it's fantastic.


----------



## yeboyi

There was a note inside the box saying don't plug/unplug headphones while the amp is on. Why is that ? It's a huge annoyance imo. Is it dangerous ?


----------



## NickT23

KCXT said:


> Had mine for about 2 years now and, while I compared it with a Liquid Spark when I first received it, I haven't had any desire for anything else. Pairing it with a Topping E50 seemed to give a bit of roundness and running balance is now giving me access to the full power... even my HE6se v2s sing now. It fits perfectly on my desk, sounds great, and powers anything I can throw at it... what more can one ask for? Currently getting slammed by my HE-500s powered by the 789 and it's fantastic.


Sorry by slam, do you mean the bass region ? That bass slam ?


----------



## jonathan c

Usually associated with bass / midbass, ‘slam’ can be a sonic characteristic over much of reproduced music frequency spectrum. Think of ‘slam’ as force / heft / weight - independent of volume level. Excellent transient response and ‘slam’ go hand-in-hand.


----------



## KCXT

NickT23 said:


> Sorry by slam, do you mean the bass region ? That bass slam ?





jonathan c said:


> Usually associated with bass / midbass, ‘slam’ can be a sonic characteristic over much of reproduced music frequency spectrum. Think of ‘slam’ as force / heft / weight - independent of volume level. Excellent transient response and ‘slam’ go hand-in-hand.


I wasn't really tying to describe the tonality with that comment but yes, the song has a hard-hitting snare tone with emphasis on the low-mids and the HE-500 delivers it as Jonathan described.


----------



## NickT23

KCXT said:


> I wasn't really tying to describe the tonality with that comment but yes, the song has a hard-hitting snare tone with emphasis on the low-mids and the HE-500 delivers it as Jonathan described.


So the answer is yes then.


----------



## KCXT

NickT23 said:


> So the answer is yes then.


In a literal sense no, the answer is not 'yes' since I was not attempting to describe a tonality in that post when saying 'slammed'; I was just referring to listening to loud music and that the THX 789 was delivering the required power and volume.

In a general sense yes, you are correct, and jonathan c provided a good description.


----------



## NickT23

KCXT said:


> In a literal sense no, the answer is not 'yes' since I was not attempting to describe a tonality in that post when saying 'slammed'; I was just referring to listening to loud music and that the THX 789 was delivering the required power and volume.
> 
> In a general sense yes, you are correct, and jonathan c provided a good description.


Just as I thought. Thats why if am wondering thats what you mean in terms of loudness or frequency spectrum


----------



## MacMan31

tholt said:


> Just sort of a PSA. I've found that brass footers and weights noticeably bring out some fullness and presence from this amp. I did some playing around and found that placement matters, and bigger weights are better. It's a worthwhile experiment IMO, but the footers and weights cost more than the amp, lol. Mapleshade does have a 30 day money back if you want to try it. This really is a pretty great amp for the cost. The definition and layering are commendable.



This looks quite interesting. Where does one even get these brass weights? I don't have a 789 anymore as I sold it probably a year ago or so. I'd be interested in getting one again. Right now I'm using Schiit gear.


----------



## pbarach

tholt said:


> Just sort of a PSA. I've found that brass footers and weights noticeably bring out some fullness and presence from this amp.


How can brass footers and weights cause a change in the amp output? signal? It's a headphone amp and not subject to any sort of vibration-inducing source such as speakers.


----------



## TheRH

What DAC are you using?


----------



## NickT23

pbarach said:


> How can brass footers and weights cause a change in the amp output? signal? It's a headphone amp and not subject to any sort of vibration-inducing source such as speakers.


I find it to be bogus. I did the testing before and found no evidence both objective and subjective findings to be true. Maybe for speakers, its possible ?


----------



## pbarach (Apr 11, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> I find it to be bogus. I did the testing before and found no evidence both objective and subjective findings to be true. Maybe for speakers, its possible ?



Changing what is under speakers will generally change how a speaker and its drivers will vibrate, perhaps resulting in measurable and audible changes in the sound quality. But nothing vibrational is going on inside a headphone amp, which is causing movement only in the headphone drivers--and that vibration isn't going to affect the amp or its box.


----------



## adeadcrab

Kamurah said:


> I feel like I need to revisit this thread and give an addendum...maybe eat a little crow.
> 
> In my earlier review of the THX AAA 789 I mentioned I was running my pair of HE-4xx's single ended.  I have since acquired a balanced cable from Periapt and this has somewhat altered my overall impression of the amp.
> 
> ...


I have noticed the same - stubbornly sticking with my XLR->SE adaptor for months. Removed the adaptor from my Focal Clear Professional cables; running straight from the balanced out and the soundstage increases, imaging follows and clarity and control of the drivers seems to be slightly better.

I initially thought it was the SE adaptor itself that was negatively affecting the sound; it may just be the SE output of the 789. Upgrades the sound from 'meh', boxed in and missing resolution, to serviceable or quite good even.


----------



## ssmith3046

I bought one of these used that according to seller got little use because he didn't care for it so he packed it back in the original box and put it away.  It looks new in the pics.  $120 sent priority mail and it'll be here Monday.  I have a Schiit Modi Multibit,  Modi 3+,  Modius,  and the new Modi 3E to experiment with and a Cambridge dacmagic 100. I'm still a CD spinner and use an Audiolab 6000CDT transport.  I'm still building my headphone collection but so far I own the original Focal Clear Pro's, Avantone Planar,  and HD600's. I've ordered a four pin XLR adapter that I can use with my headphones so I can get an idea of what the XLR output brings to the table.  I've been using my Schiit Asgard 3 for several years and I've been really happy with it but I've always been curious about this amp. Over the last few days I've read through all the past posts on this thread.  Lots of interesting posts.


----------



## Ichos

ssmith3046 said:


> I bought one of these used that according to seller got little use because he didn't care for it so he packed it back in the original box and put it away.  It looks new in the pics.  $120 sent priority mail and it'll be here Monday.  I have a Schiit Modi Multibit,  Modi 3+,  Modius,  and the new Modi 3E to experiment with and a Cambridge dacmagic 100. I'm still a CD spinner and use an Audiolab 6000CDT transport.  I'm still building my headphone collection but so far I own the original Focal Clear Pro's, Avantone Planar,  and HD600's. I've ordered a four pin XLR adapter that I can use with my headphones so I can get an idea of what the XLR output brings to the table.  I've been using my Schiit Asgard 3 for several years and I've been really happy with it but I've always been curious about this amp. Over the last few days I've read through all the past posts on this thread.  Lots of interesting posts.


What kind of an adapter?
You must have balanced cables for your headphones.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Apr 30, 2022)

Ichos said:


> What kind of an adapter?
> You must have balanced cables for your headphones.


Oh, OK.  The adapter has a 4 pin XLR plug that would plug into the front of the amps XLR output plug. On the other end is a female plug that would take the headphone's quarter inch plug. I was thinking that this would utilize the amp's XLR output and my existing headphone cables would benefit from it. Bought it from Amazon so I can return it. Thanks for your input.


----------



## adeadcrab

ssmith3046 said:


> Oh, OK.  The adapter has a 4 pin XLR plug that would plug into the front of the amps XLR output plug. On the other end is a female plug that would take the headphone's quarter inch plug. I was thinking that this would utilize the amp's XLR output and my existing headphone cables would benefit from it. Bought it from Amazon so I can return it. Thanks for your input.


That would be dangerous.
Recommendation would be to upgrade your headphone cables to balanced.
Many like Hart Audio cables, I lean toward Periapt as I have one already for the Focal Clear and love the sound clarity.


----------



## ssmith3046

adeadcrab said:


> That would be dangerous.
> Recommendation would be to upgrade your headphone cables to balanced.
> Many like Hart Audio cables, I lean toward Periapt as I have one already for the Focal Clear and love the sound clarity.


I've read up on the topic now and found out so I appreciate the feedback from here.  I think I'll order cables for my HD600's first since I've read that the XLR output has a little more power than the SE. Is that correct?


----------



## Ichos

ssmith3046 said:


> Oh, OK.  The adapter has a 4 pin XLR plug that would plug into the front of the amps XLR output plug. On the other end is a female plug that would take the headphone's quarter inch plug. I was thinking that this would utilize the amp's XLR output and my existing headphone cables would benefit from it. Bought it from Amazon so I can return it. Thanks for your input.


You should return it because it is useless and can burn the amp.
You can't go from unbalanced cable to balanced amplifier.
You should order balanced cables and till they arrive you can use the single ended output of the amplifier.


----------



## ssmith3046

Ichos said:


> You should return it because it is useless and can burn the amp.
> You can't go from unbalanced cable to balanced amplifier.
> You should order balanced cables and till they arrive you can use the single ended output of the amplifier.


Thanks to a couple of other members and you I got the message.  You know what's funny, well not funny actually, is that in the Amazon reviews for the adapter a buyer left a review that said he was using it for headphones on his amp and if I remember correctly it was a the Drop 789 amp.  I wonder how much damage this guy caused?  I'm going to use the SE output and decide if I like the amp before I order balanced cables and if I have favorable impressions of the amp I'll order the cables. It was fun going back through 166 pages of posts.  The anticipation of waiting for the new amp,  the excitement of receiving the amps,  the frustration of missing out on the latest drop.  The reviews ( some bad but overwhelmingly positive),  the Ebayers asking big bucks. Things quieted down after a few years as to be expected.  My amp arrives tomorrow so it's like being in 2018!


----------



## ssmith3046 (May 2, 2022)

Holy cow!  I paid $120 for this amp and it was delivered today and I'm impressed.  I can't wait to do more listening but the build quality is solid and the first DAC that I paired with it is my Modi 3E.  The Focal Clear Pro's sound really nice with this combo. I'll try my Modi multibit later and my Modius and Modi 3+ tomorrow.  I also have my HD600's and Avantone Planar headphones to try out.  I keep reaching for my Asgard 3 volume knob. I'll definitely have to order balanced cables for a few pairs of headphones now.


----------



## pbarach

ssmith3046 said:


> Holy cow!  I paid $120 for this amp and it was delivered today and I'm impressed.  I can't wait to do more listening but the build quality is solid and the first DAC that I paired with it is my Modi 3E.  The Focal Clear Pro's sound really nice with this combo. I'll try my Modi multibit later and my Modius and Modi 3+ tomorrow.  I also have my HD600's and Avantone Planar headphones to try out.  I keep reaching for my Asgard 3 volume knob. I'll definitely have to order balanced cables for a few pairs of headphones now.


Not to criticize the amp (I have one and enjoy it), but it isn't truly a balanced amp (see discussion of whether this amp is truly balanced). The balanced output provides more power, but the Focals and the HD600's (I have both) don't actually _need _more power than you get from the single-ended output.


----------



## ssmith3046

pbarach said:


> Not to criticize the amp (I have one and enjoy it), but it isn't truly a balanced amp (see discussion of whether this amp is truly balanced). The balanced output provides more power, but the Focals and the HD600's (I have both) don't actually _need _more power than you get from the single-ended output.


I understand, I read through all 166 pages.  That's why the first headphones that I want to buy balanced cables for are the HD600's.  The Focal Clear Pro's sound great using the SE. Thanks though for your input.


----------



## ssmith3046

I'm really liking what this amp does for the HD600's and that's using SE.  The Sennheisers are good with the Asgard 3 but this amp has great synergy with them.


----------



## ssmith3046

I've been using this amp for several days now and even though I'm a certified Schiithead I haven't turned on my Asgard 3 since I hooked it up.  I'm happily retired with no interest in returning to a job so I'll never own an expensive amp so I'm sure you can buy better but I love this thing.


----------



## ssmith3046

This has been asked repeatedly but obviously I must not be the sharpest tool in the shed.
I love the 789 but I used my Asgard 3 as a preamp for a pair of powered monitors.
Since the monitors are powered with its own internal amp do I patch the speakers directly to the pass SE on the 789 or do I still go through the Asgard 3.  I'm a bit confused on the whole topic.
Thanks for the help.


----------



## adeadcrab

ssmith3046 said:


> This has been asked repeatedly but obviously I must not be the sharpest tool in the shed.
> I love the 789 but I used my Asgard 3 as a preamp for a pair of powered monitors.
> Since the monitors are powered with its own internal amp do I patch the speakers directly to the pass SE on the 789 or do I still go through the Asgard 3.  I'm a bit confused on the whole topic.
> Thanks for the help.


You should be able to go Asgard 3 -> 789 - > active monitors. It will sound like it did from the Asgard 3.


----------



## ssmith3046 (May 15, 2022)

adeadcrab said:


> You should be able to go Asgard 3 -> 789 - > active monitors. It will sound like it did from the Asgard 3.


Thanks. It might be easier just to use the Asgard as a dedicated monitor preamp.


----------



## adeadcrab (May 15, 2022)

ssmith3046 said:


> Thanks. It might be easier just to use the Asgard as a dedicated monitor preamp.


This is assuming you want the Asgard feeding signal to both 789 and monitors. You could just plug the Asgard straight into the monitors, yeah.


----------



## ssmith3046

adeadcrab said:


> This is assuming you want the Asgard feeding singal to both 789 and monitors. You could just plug the Asgard straight into the monitors, yeah.


Right. I have four different Schiit budget DACs ( modi 3+, modi 3E, Modius, and modi multibit ) and I've been utilizing the XLR output on the Modius with the 789 and it's a nice combination.  I could use a different DAC with the Asgard/monitors so then all I'd have to change would be the coax cable from my Audiolab 6000CDT transport to the DAC being used by the Asgard.


----------



## kuchumovn

alpovs said:


> Did you have two headphones, SE and balanced, plugged in at the same time when it happened by any chance?


Hi. He didn't but I did. Do you happen to know of a particular issue related to that?


----------



## bluenight (May 24, 2022)

I have been using this amp a bit lately again from a year or 2 i dident use it.

Its not flat sounding anymore like I thought in the past so nothing that bothers me. It might be explained by that I have uppgradeded my rca cables to high end ones. And uppgraded my HD800S single ended cable from stock. And done some other tweaks mainly on the network. I have only listened to single ended cable this time around. 

So overall a clean sounding good to great amp.


----------



## ssmith3046

I've only had mine for a short time and I love it. Lots of power, clean and dynamic.  I haven't used my Asgard 3 since I bought it.


----------



## adeadcrab

bluenight said:


> I have been using this amp a bit lately again from a year or 2 i dident use it.
> 
> Its not flat sounding anymore like I thought in the past so nothing that bothers me. It might be explained by that I have uppgradeded my rca cables to high end ones. And uppgraded my HD800S single ended cable from stock. And done some other tweaks mainly on the network. I have only listened to single ended cable this time around.
> 
> So overall a clean sounding good to great amp.


Please try the balanced output to your headphones and let us know what you think.


----------



## ssmith3046

I use the balanced output for my Focal Clear and HD600 headphones.  Definitely a good way to go. I'm currently using a Schiit Modius and using the the balanced output on it.  This amp also sounds great with my Modi multibit and Modi 3E.  I plan on ordering a Bifrost 2 in a few weeks and for me that'll be my end game DAC.


----------



## pbarach

ssmith3046 said:


> I use the balanced output for my Focal Clear and HD600 headphones.   balanced output on it.  This amp also sounds great with my Modi multibit and Modi 3E.  I plan on ordering a Bifrost 2 in a few weeks and for me that'll be my end game DAC.


   I hear absolutely no difference in sound quality with balanced vs single-ended cable from my Focal Clear. Recall that this amp is not truly balanced through the entire signal path, so the only benefit to using the balanced output is more power--which the Clears don't need (I don't have a balanced cable for my HD600, but this amp has no problem powering it using the high gain setting).


----------



## ssmith3046

pbarach said:


> I hear absolutely no difference in sound quality with balanced vs single-ended cable from my Focal Clear. Recall that this amp is not truly balanced through the entire signal path, so the only benefit to using the balanced output is more power--which the Clears don't need (I don't have a balanced cable for my HD600, but this amp has no problem powering it using the high gain setting).


 I have a friend getting out of the headphone game so he sold me his cables at a ridiculously low price. Much better than the stock cables and since they happen to be balanced I use them.


----------



## bluenight

pbarach said:


> I don't have a balanced cable for my HD600, but this amp has no problem powering it using the high gain setting).


I dont need more then mid gain or second gain for HD800S. On single ended HP cable. Plays as loud as i need to and to damage my ears on max volume if i wanted that.


----------



## KingKrush

yeboyi said:


> Why Drop didn't made a sequel for this amp. It's kinda outdated right now. I wonder if it sells well.
> 
> I remember it sounding like a ghost. Light feet, ethereal, airy, neutral but smooth. Maybe sterile but not bright or harsh. Highly technical imo.
> 
> They should modernize it a bit and made a matching dac and cut the price. It would sell like hot cake.


How does an amp become outdated?

Also, it sounds like perhaps your overall setup had issues. I don't think that experience is consistent with what the overwhelming majority of owners report.


----------



## ssmith3046

KingKrush said:


> How does an amp become outdated?
> 
> Also, it sounds like perhaps your overall setup had issues. I don't think that experience is consistent with what the overwhelming majority of owners report.


I really enjoy mine.  It's not my only headphone amp but I'm still loving it and it gets a lot of use. It has a lot of good, clean power and big, wide open sound.


----------



## NickT23

KingKrush said:


> How does an amp become outdated?
> 
> Also, it sounds like perhaps your overall setup had issues. I don't think that experience is consistent with what the overwhelming majority of owners report.


By updating means latest THX chip with the lowest distortion and noise floor, competing with other THX hype amps.


----------



## geoffalter11

KingKrush said:


> How does an amp become outdated?
> 
> Also, it sounds like perhaps your overall setup had issues. I don't think that experience is consistent with what the overwhelming majority of owners report.


Or it could be that the 789 just isn’t that great an amp. A good amp for its price but nothing special. I owned one and promptly sold it. My chain was not the problem. My problem was that the amp lacked a soul, sounded lifeless and boring. Very clean and very low distortion numbers, but when we are talking about numbers way past what we can audibly detect I look for intangible qualities. Pacing, space between the notes, body and physicality. The amp does exactly what is advertised. Gives you gobs of clean, distortion free power. Just not my cup of tea.,


----------



## NickT23

geoffalter11 said:


> Or it could be that the 789 just isn’t that great an amp. A good amp for its price but nothing special. I owned one and promptly sold it. My chain was not the problem. My problem was that the amp lacked a soul, sounded lifeless and boring. Very clean and very low distortion numbers, but when we are talking about numbers way past what we can audibly detect I look for intangible qualities. Pacing, space between the notes, body and physicality. The amp does exactly what is advertised. Gives you gobs of clean, distortion free power. Just not my cup of tea.,


Means you like coloration.


----------



## geoffalter11

NickT23 said:


> Means you like coloration.


Maybe a bit. My SS amp is just so much more to my liking. It isn’t warm, it isn’t distorted, it just has more top end resolution and image specificity. Measurements don’t mean something is going to sound good. I know that might not be a popular statement in this thread. Same thing with all the Topping and SMSL stuff. They all sound the same to me. Completely free of distortion and clean. Just kind of no there there for my tastes. I do like tubes. I also recognize the 789 is highly proficient for what it is meant to do. Just not for me.


----------



## yeboyi

KingKrush said:


> How does an amp become outdated?
> 
> Also, it sounds like perhaps your overall setup had issues. I don't think that experience is consistent with what the overwhelming majority of owners report.


Dacs and amps just get cheaper, more powerful and have more features every year if you follow the market. This amp isn't as competitive in today's market. That's what i mean by outdated.


----------



## NickT23

geoffalter11 said:


> Maybe a bit. My SS amp is just so much more to my liking. It isn’t warm, it isn’t distorted, it just has more top end resolution and image specificity. Measurements don’t mean something is going to sound good. I know that might not be a popular statement in this thread. Same thing with all the Topping and SMSL stuff. They all sound the same to me. Completely free of distortion and clean. Just kind of no there there for my tastes. I do like tubes. I also recognize the 789 is highly proficient for what it is meant to do. Just not for me.


I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.


----------



## pbarach

NickT23 said:


> By updating means latest THX chip with the lowest distortion and noise floor, competing with other THX hype amps.


The distortion and noise floor in the 789 measure below audibility; any measured improvement of those variables would be of no practical value.


----------



## geoffalter11 (Aug 23, 2022)

pbarach said:


> The distortion and noise floor in the 789 measure below audibility; any measured improvement of those variables would be of no practical value.


That is the problem with this whole argument. Measurements won’t tell you whether or not I like the way it sounds. But, certainly will tell you they have figured out how to continue pushing down values we can’t hear anyway. It is an odd game and one I don’t fully understand. I have always made my choices based on how it sounds in my chain with my headphones. Whether or not it measures a certain way doesn’t tell me if I will like it.


----------



## jonathan c

geoffalter11 said:


> That is the problem with this whole argument. Measurements won’t tell you whether or not like the way it sounds. But, certainly will tell you they have figured out how to continue pushing down values we can’t hear anyway. It is an odd game and one I don’t fully understand. I have always made my choices based on how it sounds in my chain with my headphones. Whether or not is measures a certain way doesn’t tell me if I will like it.


☑️ The measurements in audio gear indicate how that gear performs electronically - not sonically.


----------



## geoffalter11

jonathan c said:


> ☑️ The measurements in audio gear indicate how that gear performs electronically - not sonically.


Second that emotion…


----------



## hakuzen

I like to first get the sound without coloration, as much clean and transparent as possible, so FR, noise, distortion, etc. measurements are a must to know how clean and transparent it will be.
Then, I might consider to color it by altering frequency response or adding noise and distortion, in a posterior stage.. ermmm, no, I never end doing this at last, I feel enough emotion with good music, instead of with undesired artificial tones, noise, and distortion; but I respect others' likes, of course; this is my personal preference and the reason of considering 789 top notch already


----------



## George Hincapie

geoffalter11 said:


> Or it could be that the 789 just isn’t that great an amp. A good amp for its price but nothing special. I owned one and promptly sold it. My chain was not the problem. My problem was that the amp lacked a soul, sounded lifeless and boring. Very clean and very low distortion numbers, but when we are talking about numbers way past what we can audibly detect I look for intangible qualities. Pacing, space between the notes, body and physicality. The amp does exactly what is advertised. Gives you gobs of clean, distortion free power. Just not my cup of tea.,


The problem absolutely is in your chain. That amp is transparent, so if you weren't hearing what you wanted then look to your source and DAC.


----------



## geoffalter11

George Hincapie said:


> The problem absolutely is in your chain. That amp is transparent, so if you weren't hearing what you wanted then look to your source and DAC.


I’m good. There is nothing wrong with my DAC or chain. I didn’t like the amp.


----------



## NickT23

geoffalter11 said:


> That is the problem with this whole argument. Measurements won’t tell you whether or not I like the way it sounds. But, certainly will tell you they have figured out how to continue pushing down values we can’t hear anyway. It is an odd game and one I don’t fully understand. I have always made my choices based on how it sounds in my chain with my headphones. Whether or not it measures a certain way doesn’t tell me if I will like it.


Yup, tell that to ASR... ?


----------



## ssmith3046

One man's meat is another man's poison.


----------



## geoffalter11

NickT23 said:


> Yup, tell that to ASR... ?


Haha. No thanks. Not exactly a welcome opinion over there. . I don’t agree with their philosophy, they don’t agree with mine.


----------



## NickT23

geoffalter11 said:


> Haha. No thanks. Not exactly a welcome opinion over there. . I don’t agree with their philosophy, they don’t agree with mine.


No, am sure they will welcome opinions over there. Just that most people will not welcome opinions here especially the objectivist crowd.


----------



## jonathan c

Everyone is entitled to _*my *_opinion…🤣


----------



## geoffalter11

NickT23 said:


> No, am sure they will welcome opinions over there. Just that most people will not welcome opinions here especially the objectivist crowd.


I’ve had a completely different experience. I welcome all opinions and am always happy to hear other philosophies and viewpoints. It is what makes the world go round. I have found my viewpoints to be condescended and denigrated at ASR which leads me to want to fight. I don’t want to fight, so I stay away. I joined into a conversation because I witnessed hateful, disrespectful spew about a product, and designer from a picture, not even from having measured or listened to the product. Everyone piled on and ridiculed the product and those who would be dumb enough to own it. Without having listened to it. That isn’t objectivism. So, I have learned it isn’t a good place for me. But, I am glad it exists for those who like that philosophy and genuinely feel that it helps them to enjoy music more. There is a big member group and that must mean that folks are finding a place to learn and talk. Just not for me.


----------



## bcaulf17

yeboyi said:


> Dacs and amps just get cheaper, more powerful and have more features every year if you follow the market. This amp isn't as competitive in today's market. That's what i mean by outdated.


At that point you might as well just look at features/build quality. Clean amplification is a solved problem at this point. I like the 789 just because of how versatile and utilitarian it is.


----------



## jonathan c

ssmith3046 said:


> One man's meat is another man's poison.


…who’s the dinner guest?…😏


----------



## jonathan c

bcaulf17 said:


> At that point you might as well just look at features/build quality. *Clean amplification is a solved problem at this point*. I like the 789 just because of how versatile and utilitarian it is.


‘Lifelike’ amplification is still a work - in - progress.🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## geoffalter11

jonathan c said:


> ‘Lifelike’ amplification is still a work - in - progress.🤷🏻‍♂️


Lifelike amplification is definitely a work in progress.

Like blow pops. Trick is to get to the gum efficiently. Progress!


----------



## ssmith3046

bcaulf17 said:


> At that point you might as well just look at features/build quality. Clean amplification is a solved problem at this point. I like the 789 just because of how versatile and utilitarian it is.


Affordable too. I paid $120 shipped, used of course,  in the original box and like new.


----------



## geoffalter11

ssmith3046 said:


> Affordable too. I paid $120 shipped, used of course,  in the original box and like new.


That is a great deal for the 789.  Nice pick up!


----------



## NickT23

Massdrop THX 789 > Drop THX 789. AT LEAST FOR ME! (In terms of aesthetics)


----------



## ssmith3046

geoffalter11 said:


> That is a great deal for the 789.  Nice pick up!


I jumped on it!


----------



## jonathan c

NickT23 said:


> Massdrop THX 789 > Drop THX 789. AT LEAST FOR ME! (In terms of aesthetics)


….Massdrop changed its name to Drop…aren’t these the same?…


----------



## VanHai

jonathan c said:


> ….Massdrop changed its name to Drop…aren’t these the same?…


Yes, they are exactly the same. But the older version of Massdrop has a better quality control.


----------



## NickT23

jonathan c said:


> ….Massdrop changed its name to Drop…aren’t these the same?…


No not the same.


----------



## aloki

jonathan c said:


> ….Massdrop changed its name to Drop…aren’t these the same?…


They are the same except for the branding on the upper left side in the front.


----------



## George Hincapie

geoffalter11 said:


> I’m good. There is nothing wrong with my DAC or chain. I didn’t like the amp.


Fair enough. You like what you like. Have you settled on something else?


----------



## geoffalter11

George Hincapie said:


> Fair enough. You like what you like. Have you settled on something else?


Thank you for asking.  My chain consists of Roon Labs/Core Technology USBe Perfect/Silver Dragon USB Cable/Exogal Comet+ for my digital chain.  I currently have two amps.  For solid state I have a Cembalo Labs Spring 1.  I might have the only one left in existence.  For tube amplification I have an Icon Audio HP8, which is a transformer based tube amp with 6SN7 and 12AX7 tubes, hand wound transformers, point to point wiring and no circuit boards in the signal path.  Both are single ended designs. The Spring 1 has both balanced inputs and outputs, but there isn't a significant sound difference through balanced.  In fact, I think the amp sounds better when I use RCAs out of my DAC.  Whereas, I like my HP8 when I use XLR to RCAs to take advantage of a bit more voltage into the HP8.

Both amps are the best I have ever owned.  I absolutely love them both for very different reasons.  I tend to use the Spring 1 for my LCD-4z and Radiante, and my HP8 for my high impedance headphones.  However, both amps are tremendous with all of my headphones.

I recognize the 789 is probably the best amp value on the market and it is an extremely clean, distortion free amp.  I found the soundstage to be compressed and for it to lack a bit of top end resolution.  That being said, I do recognize that it is a VERY competent amp.  I struggle with the idea that measurements lead to better.  I am not an objectivist when it comes to music and this hobby.  I genuinely believe that we have to listen to understand what we like.  I also didn't love the build quality of the amp.  I got mine brand new from Drop.   The headphone outputs weren't great, especially the 1/4".  Fortunately the amp sounds best through the XLR, but I didn't find the amp to be premium in terms of build quality.  Just my two cents...

There is no right or wrong with this stuff.  Only preferences based on our individual use case, and goals for sound and function.

I am happy to have this post cause respectful debate.  I by no means believe my thoughts or feelings are the only way.  How boring that would be... I hope this finds you well!


----------



## George Hincapie

geoffalter11 said:


> Thank you for asking.  My chain consists of Roon Labs/Core Technology USBe Perfect/Silver Dragon USB Cable/Exogal Comet+ for my digital chain.  I currently have two amps.  For solid state I have a Cembalo Labs Spring 1.  I might have the only one left in existence.  For tube amplification I have an Icon Audio HP8, which is a transformer based tube amp with 6SN7 and 12AX7 tubes, hand wound transformers, point to point wiring and no circuit boards in the signal path.  Both are single ended designs. The Spring 1 has both balanced inputs and outputs, but there isn't a significant sound difference through balanced.  In fact, I think the amp sounds better when I use RCAs out of my DAC.  Whereas, I like my HP8 when I use XLR to RCAs to take advantage of a bit more voltage into the HP8.
> 
> Both amps are the best I have ever owned.  I absolutely love them both for very different reasons.  I tend to use the Spring 1 for my LCD-4z and Radiante, and my HP8 for my high impedance headphones.  However, both amps are tremendous with all of my headphones.
> 
> ...



As long as you are happy with your choice, then that's good enough for me Brother.

My fIrst HPA was a Metrum Acoustics Aurix (Class A), which was replaced with the 789. It has been brilliant. That said, I am considering replacing it with an LTA MZ3. It's all development.

All the best to you.


----------



## geoffalter11

George Hincapie said:


> As long as you are happy with your choice, then that's good enough for me Brother.
> 
> My fIrst HPA was a Metrum Acoustics Aurix (Class A), which was replaced with the 789. It has been brilliant. That said, I am considering replacing it with an LTA MZ3. It's all development.
> 
> All the best to you.


The MZ3 is a wonderful amp. At the price to sell the 789 you might as well keep it. Good luck getting that amp. Such a great amp.


----------



## geoffalter11

George Hincapie said:


> As long as you are happy with your choice, then that's good enough for me Brother.
> 
> My fIrst HPA was a Metrum Acoustics Aurix (Class A), which was replaced with the 789. It has been brilliant. That said, I am considering replacing it with an LTA MZ3. It's all development.
> 
> All the best to you.


@jonathan c owns one. He can speak clearly about its attributes.


----------



## geoffalter11

geoffalter11 said:


> @jonathan c owns one. He can speak clearly about its attributes.


Big jump from 789 to MZ3. Pretty cool…


----------



## jonathan c

THX AAA 789 —> LTA MZ3 === atmosphere —> ionosphere


----------



## geoffalter11

jonathan c said:


> THX AAA 789 —> LTA MZ3 === atmosphere —> ionosphere


You crack me up. @DenverW is right. Witty! Half the time I have to look up what you are saying or try to understand the context. The emojis I understand.


----------



## eargasam

Question for you guys  i have had my thx 789 for about 2yrs now and so far until now it sounded great. But recently for some reason recently starting to sound harsh and shouty. For the past 2 years I haven't had any problem the same set up and everything. I even tried four different types of headphones, the audeze lcd x , lcd i4, zmf atticus and the hifiman he 1000s and everything with all of those headphones even with eq still sounds shouty and harsh. My question is there something that happened to the the amp because it never sounded this harsh and sharp before. Like I said same set up so I don't know why the sound changed.


----------



## geoffalter11

eargasam said:


> Question for you guys  i have had my thx 789 for about 2yrs now and so far until now it sounded great. But recently for some reason recently starting to sound harsh and shouty. For the past 2 years I haven't had any problem the same set up and everything. I even tried four different types of headphones, the audeze lcd x , lcd i4, zmf atticus and the hifiman he 1000s and everything with all of those headphones even with eq still sounds shouty and harsh. My question is there something that happened to the the amp because it never sounded this harsh and sharp before. Like I said same set up so I don't know why the sound changed.


I’m sorry that has happened to you. Honestly, no idea. I never found the 789 to be shouty, but I did always find it to be dry and lifeless. It is a pretty simple and well built design. I doubt anything has happened to the amp. Other than perhaps your tastes are changing.


----------



## jbarrentine

My 789 quit working and I jumped on the $150 THX One on drop immediately. I absolutely love the One. The compact size makes it feel more substantial in the hand and it doesn't have the lame power brick of the 789. In my estimation it's a better looking unit too. It's a win all the way around unless you absolutely need balanced/more power.


----------



## tyk103

jbarrentine said:


> My 789 quit working and I jumped on the $150 THX One on drop immediately. I absolutely love the One. The compact size makes it feel more substantial in the hand and it doesn't have the lame power brick of the 789. In my estimation it's a better looking unit too. It's a win all the way around unless you absolutely need balanced/more power.


You probably didn't need the full power output of the 789 right? I know the THX ONE's output is lower (still a lot though haha).


----------



## jbarrentine

tyk103 said:


> You probably didn't need the full power output of the 789 right? I know the THX ONE's output is lower (still a lot though haha).



No I didn't. From what I understand the SE is better on the One anyway.


----------



## tyk103

Anyone notice a difference in headphone output power between the XLR balanced inputs and the singled ended RCAs?


----------



## geoffalter11

tyk103 said:


> Anyone notice a difference in headphone output power between the XLR balanced inputs and the singled ended RCAs?


No. But a huge difference between headphone outputs.


----------



## NickT23

jbarrentine said:


> My 789 quit working and I jumped on the $150 THX One on drop immediately. I absolutely love the One. The compact size makes it feel more substantial in the hand and it doesn't have the lame power brick of the 789. In my estimation it's a better looking unit too. It's a win all the way around unless you absolutely need balanced/more power.


Hello, I have my own 789 and dint work after a year of not using because using other expensive amp. I immediately bought another Massdrop variant 789 just for the sake of aesthetic and nostalgia. Paid $300 for everything.


----------



## NickT23

geoffalter11 said:


> I’m sorry that has happened to you. Honestly, no idea. I never found the 789 to be shouty, but I did always find it to be dry and lifeless. It is a pretty simple and well built design. I doubt anything has happened to the amp. Other than perhaps your tastes are changing.


Yes could be and especially could be the headphone itself. Linear amp reveal brightness tone of the headphone.


----------



## tyk103

NickT23 said:


> Hello, I have my own 789 and dint work after a year of not using because using other expensive amp. I immediately bought another Massdrop variant 789 just for the sake of aesthetic and nostalgia. Paid $300 for everything.


Would have sold you mine haha.


----------



## NickT23

tyk103 said:


> Would have sold you mine haha.


What do you mean ? Either way, am only interested in "Massdrop"


----------



## tyk103

NickT23 said:


> What do you mean ? Either way, am only interested in "Massdrop"


What I meant was that I have a Massdrop (now Drop so I have the newer logo).


----------



## NickT23

tyk103 said:


> What I meant was that I have a Massdrop (now Drop so I have the newer logo).


Right past tense. Why sell Massdrop ones again ? I forgot ...


----------



## NickT23

Hi, question below ? Just wondering if THX 789 can use aftermarket lpsu.

Does the THX 789 current power supply unit of the Massdrop 24Volt with 3A or less?
Does the THX 789  have a 2.5mm DC barrel plug?
Does the THX 789 have a centre-positive polarity?


----------

