# Musical Fidelity xcan v8



## ADD

Hi,

 I have been struggling to find any information on this upcoming component. I've done several searches here at head-fi and could not find any threads (sorry of there already are). So far, I have just found a news mention at Computer Audiophile | Turn Down The Silence and that is about it.

 Would love to get more info on it. The USB input and the changes in input / buffering architecture should make for a very interesting product.

 PS: Was wondering what the heck happened to v4, v5, v6 and v7 then decided that MF probably wanted to draw an analogy to a v8 automobile engine...


xcan v8


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## portaprokid

I don't know if you've looked at Musical Fidelity's website, but the PDF version of the manual is available for viewing.

Welcome to Musical Fidelity


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## vcoheda

why is the volume knob so big.


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## eitook

I just read the review of the V8 in this month's issue of UK Hifi News and apparently it succeeds its predecessors in the sound department and garnered a decent score. Not too sure about the DAC functionality of the unit though, there were not too much information on that aspect in the review


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## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why is the volume knob so big._

 


 Just my personal observation. I think the old v3 has it all over the new v8 in terms of looks. Unless the photos are some sort of mock up, to me it has really gone downhill in terms of visual appeal. I thought the old one very appealing. The new one looks like something made in a back shed as a school metalwork project.

 Just looking at the specs as well, the DAC looks disappointing. I wouldn't even consider any DAC that could not convert a 24-96 source at a minimum.

 It will nevertheless be interesting to get v3 versus v8 impressions from other head-fiers in terms of sonics.


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## Mindless

Looks interesting but I probably won't buy it.


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## milkpowder

I'm going to put an estimate retail price of around $1.6k for UK/EU. (but maybe less because it's in the small-x category) This is predominantly a headphone amplifier with a DAC put in as a freebie so I wouldn't really base any purchasing decision on DAC performance. As usual, MF claim, and I quote, "best of the world" performance from this amplifier, even claiming that it will drive the K1000! Marketing BS or not, that should raise a few eyebrows


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

$1.6K is a pretty competitive market... anyone got pics?


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## milkpowder

Well, there is the official photo:





 BTW, I only came to the sum of $1.6k because the X-DAC V8 costs that much in the UK. If the X-CAN V8 is merely a drastically updated X-CAN V3, then it will cost no more than half as much. Of course, these are all _my speculations_.


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## jdimitri

$1.6k?? It really doesn't look the part

 And wow, if those are 1/4 jacks that volume knob is gigantic


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## Gurra1980

I guess it's the x-dac v8 that costs that much, x-can v8 is cheaper at this linked place and in sweden. 

Musicdirect -


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## QQQ

Why v8 and no v4?? To justify the 1,6k? hahaha


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## AlterAnthony

It costs 3.690,00 kn in Croatia, that's approximately 750 USD.


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## Kees

Price is set at £349 GBP. (= $686, in US maybe less VAT, I'm not sure)
 More info on Rock Grotto.


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## donunus

here it is for $549 at music direct Musicdirect -


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## Gurra1980

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here it is for $549 at music direct Musicdirect -_

 

You took my link


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## donunus

whoops sorry i missed that. This seems to be a great value amp if it can beat the headamp pico in the dac and amp stages


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## QQQ

Does it need an external power supply?


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## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why is the volume knob so big._

 

looks bloody ugly!


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## Blackmore

Well, X3 cost like EUR 400 up here, so the new one will be like +/- EUR600, I guess. If this the true, huge upgrade I mean, extra EUR200 is o.k., isnt?


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## milkpowder

What a shame that it costs more in the UK than it does in the US, considering it is a UK product!

 X-CAN V3 was £250 (UK), $500 (US)
 X-CAN V8 is £350 (UK) according to PinkFloyd, but only $550 (US)?


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## donunus

Welcome to Musical Fidelity
 mf now has it up on their site


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## donunus

I just read the manual and there is no mention of whether the adapter is 220 or 110 volts. Also wondering if the dac on this is an upsampling dac that is as at least as good as the picos


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## Marijn

Europe version has a 230V power supply. Retail price in Europe will be around €495.
 I have one burning in right now, stay tuned for some first impressions.


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## QQQ

There's only usb input for dac, so you can't hook anything other than computer. Also, you cant use it as standalone dac. So not a quite universal device. I'll pass.


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## Marijn

I opened one up, the X-can V8 uses a Burr Brown PCM2706 USB d-a converter.


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## snejk

So Marijn, what do you think about it? 

 Retail price in Sweden app €400 btw.


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## Marijn

The PCM2706 is about the cheapest USB DAC solution out there, I guess. It sounds quite ok though, but nothing special. I prefer the output of my Sony Minidisc Deck (MDS-JB920 w/ 20bit conversion, SP/DIF connection from iMac) connected to the line-in of the v8.

 I don't hear much of a difference between the v3 and v8, but I didn't get the chance to compare them side by side. The v3 was already out of stock when the v8 became available in Europe.


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## Jaska

Having two 1/4" headphone outputs doesn't make any sense to me. Either one of them should be a mini jack, or there should be an output selector switch to make the two separate jacks useful. Otherwise, it would seem that only two pairs of headphones like the AKG K271S (which are switched off automatically until placed on one's noggin), would make the slightest bit of sense. Maybe useful for doing quick comparisons back and forth between pleather and velour ear pads.


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## donunus

any more news here? someone mentioned that they were featured on stereophile??? What page and issue?


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## tfarney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just looking at the specs as well, the DAC looks disappointing. I wouldn't even consider any DAC that could not convert a 24-96 source at a minimum.
_

 

Just curious: What 24-96 sources?

 Tim


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## Skylab

Anyone know what kind of tubes it uses?


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## tfarney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know what kind of tubes it uses?_

 

Is it tube? The web site is short on details, but <.008% THD doesn't sound like tubes. And isn't 1.3 watts a lot of output for a headphone amp?

 Tim


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## Skylab

It's a hybrid - tube input stage, discreet transistor output stage. Also has USB DAC, apparently. No mention on the MF website of what type (other than "triodes") are used. IIRC, previous gen used 12AX7's, so that is a good guess, but was looking for confirmation.


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## Bigjppop

The v3 uses 6922/6DJ8/EC88 tubes; not sure about v1 or v2.


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## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious: What 24-96 sources?

 Tim_

 

For me that includes digital transcriptions of my vinyl and high resolution downloads from Linn Records.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Looks terrible. The design is nothing particularly new or inspired as far as I know. Looks like someone screwed up at MF's market research department, I can't imagine this unit selling better than HeadRoom's microstack.


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## mrarroyo

The Musical Fidelity X-Can V1, V2, and V3 all used 6922/6DJ8/ECC88 valves. The V8 uses also the ECC88, see: http://www.musicalfidelity.com/manua...xcanv8_eng.pdf


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## jimjam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I have been struggling to find any information on this upcoming component. I've done several searches here at head-fi and could not find any threads (sorry of there already are). So far, I have just found a news mention at Computer Audiophile | Turn Down The Silence and that is about it.

 Would love to get more info on it. The USB input and the changes in input / buffering architecture should make for a very interesting product.

 PS: Was wondering what the heck happened to v4, v5, v6 and v7 then decided that MF probably wanted to draw an analogy to a v8 automobile engine...


xcan v8_

 

Hello, I recently bought the V8 and PSU and can tell you that they make for a very fine partnership with my AKG K701 headphones. The Musical Fidelity website now has full info on these products if you want to refer. I've not used the USB connection yet but it's good to know it's there. The V8 also has 2 headphone inputs which is nice. They certainly did think of cars when naming this product but for the most part they didn't use V4 as four is an unlucky number in the Asian culture and conversely eight IS a lucky number!


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## Skylab

Thanks Miguel! Hmmmm...this is intriguing...think I will drive over to Music Direct when they get them in and check one out


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## Gurra1980

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jimjam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I recently bought the V8 and PSU and can tell you that they make for a very fine partnership with my AKG K701 headphones. The Musical Fidelity website now has full info on these products if you want to refer. I've not used the USB connection yet but it's good to know it's there. The V8 also has 2 headphone inputs which is nice. They certainly did think of cars when naming this product but for the most part they didn't use V4 as four is an unlucky number in the Asian culture and conversely eight IS a lucky number!_

 

Can you say something about the caractrer of the sound? Do you have anything to compare with? I'm looking for a new amp so i'm interested in this.


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## ADD

Nice to see this thread going strongly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to admit the looks have grown a bit on me. Now I just think it very different rather than ugly. Perhaps seeing the commonality with the other components in the range is helping on this one.

 I see it is for sale in the States for around $500 retail, so that really ought to mean it will come in under the $600 mark in Australia (well at least I hope).

 I'm curious about the build quality - the older V3 seemed to me to be quite neat under the bonnet and a very good quality enclosure too.

 HINT: Would like to see some high resolution photos, not just of various angles on the exterior, but inside as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I might put this onto my audition list. I'm trying to make my music listening more tinnitus friendly, and I think that means ditching solid state for some more valves somewhere in the chain. MY new Tube Box II phono amp was certainly a nice improvement and easier on the ears, so I'd like to think this V8 amp is very smooth but detailed and very accurate as regards acoustic instrument timbre reproduction.


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## ricmat

is it my search error, or not even one review yet?


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## ADD

I haven't seen anything formal and internet based yet - just very early initial impressions from a few early adopters.


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## tosh1000

But no preamp outputs? Pity. Seems a workaround to use hp outputs for preamp.


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## chadbang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks terrible. The design is nothing particularly new or inspired as far as I know. Looks like someone screwed up at MF's market research department, I can't imagine this unit selling better than HeadRoom's microstack._

 

My sentiments exactly about their products. I went to the trouble and expense of importing an X-Can from England and was completely underwhelmed by what I got for my money. Namely, indistinquishable from my cd player's rudimentary headphone jack.


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## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My sentiments exactly about their products. I went to the trouble and expense of importing an X-Can from England and was completely underwhelmed by what I got for my money. Namely, indistinquishable from my cd player's rudimentary headphone jack._

 


 Which version are you talking about? The V8?


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## ricmat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which version are you talking about? The V8?_

 




 I think he is talking about the V1... ...


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My sentiments exactly about their products. I went to the trouble and expense of importing an X-Can from England and was completely underwhelmed by what I got for my money. Namely, indistinquishable from my cd player's rudimentary headphone jack._

 

Do you still have the X-Can? If yes, which one? PM me if you would like to sell it.


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## ricmat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you still have the X-Can? If yes, which one? PM me if you would like to sell it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 You just can't avoid it, cand you!??  you love those, right?

 Cheers!


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricmat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You just can't avoid it, cand you!??  you love those, right?

 Cheers!_

 

Yes I do! right now I am listening to my PinkFloyd Modded X-Can V2. BTW, have you thought of doing the PinkFloyd Mods to yours? If you have the V1 I would try the OPA2134 or the LM4562 as op-amps. Good luck.


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## ricmat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I do! right now I am listening to my PinkFloyd Modded X-Can V2. BTW, have you thought of doing the PinkFloyd Mods to yours? If you have the V1 I would try the OPA2134 or the LM4562 as op-amps. Good luck._

 


 I understand you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought, yes. but didnt till now. in fact it is as factory! I have both V2 and V3, do you think the V3 would benefit as well from the pinkfloyd mod?


 Cheers!


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## mrarroyo

The V3 is a clearer, has more detailed, and does not color the sound as the V2 does. However I find the V2 to be more involving and it does get my foot tapping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus the V2 is cooler looking! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The V2 has the added benefit of two different kits are available by PinkFloyd. The "normal" and a newer kit which makes the V2 sound tubier than the "original". I have yet to listen to the newer kit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that is why I asked you about your amp being for sale.


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## ricmat

exactly! that's why i love V3 so much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I have to try V2 modded... ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The V3 is a clearer, has more detailed, and does not color the sound as the V2 does. However I find the V2 to be more involving and it does get my foot tapping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus the V2 is cooler looking! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The V2 has the added benefit of two different kits are available by PinkFloyd. The "normal" and a newer kit which makes the V2 sound tubier than the "original". I have yet to listen to the newer kit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that is why I asked you about your amp being for sale. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


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## GordonFreeman

Bump


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## tfarney

Are the V2/V3 hybrid amps like the V8, or are they all tubes?

 Tim


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## Robonaut

Any further thoughts on this amp? It doesn't seem to have generated much hype for a new Musical Fidelity product.


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## orkney

Wait until Sam Tellig gets his mitts on one...

 "With mids as luminous as a Moscow nightclub and more bloom and bite than that 30 year-old cask strength Islay compliments of Roy Hall...blah blah blah...swag swag swag..." 

 It is odd that so few are moved to try one, though. Maybe it's the headlight-sized volume knob? 

 o


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the V2/V3 hybrid amps like the V8, or are they all tubes?

 Tim_

 

Tim, the Musical Fidelity X-Can series (V1, V2, V3, and V8) are all hybrids. The V1 use op-amps as the output stage, the V2-V3 use transistors instead.


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## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *orkney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait until Sam Tellig gets his mitts on one...

 "With mids as luminous as a Moscow nightclub and more bloom and bite than that 30 year-old cask strength Islay compliments of Roy Hall...blah blah blah...swag swag swag..." 

 It is odd that so few are moved to try one, though. Maybe it's the headlight-sized volume knob? 

 o_

 

No kidding... they totally destroyed the elegant look of the v3 series set up... but... hopefully they improved on the overall sound - so you won't have to apply PF mods to improve the sound. 

 But... I suppose that's wishful thinking. Though the did up the output power by 30%.


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## kool bubba ice

Music Fidelity should stand for, MFer, I have to mod my gear to make it sound good..


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## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No kidding... they totally destroyed the elegant look of the v3 series set up..._

 

I originally felt so too, but when I saw the new range (bar the XCan unfortunately), they look much better than in pictures. I still do prefer the more classical and timeless design of the older series though.

 Mind you, the volume controls on the new series are a pain to use - too thin imho. Perhaps MF used an aneorexic teenage female midget to test the ergonomics of the new range.


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## mnemonix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kool bubba ice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music Fidelity should stand for, MFer, I have to mod my gear to make it sound good..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

At least you'll be sticking with the same philosophy you used with your 650's


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## NajoBB

Guys, did anyone try D2000/x-can v3 or v8 combo? I'm planing to buy some amp but i can't find anything else other than x-can v3 and v8 for less than 500 euro here.
 Too bad they've changed the looks of the 3 series, this new is terrible...at least in photos.


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## Jacques

The look is not original but not so bad either. It is not that different from the Stax amplifiers. I will check my audio dealer this weekend and borrow one if he has any in stock. The sound could be interesting but it reminds to be seen. One thing I don't like about MF is their marketing. The newer model that comes way too often and is always the world best. But I am curious how it could sound like.


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## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jacques* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I don't like about MF is their marketing. The newer model that comes way too often and is always the world best. But I am curious how it could sound like._

 

I agree on the marketing comments. If the new XCan is a much an improvement on the original as MF say, then the old one would have to have been about a tenth as good as a $20 CMoy.

 I don't agree about the rate of model turnover though. Hasn't the old Xcan V3 been out since around 2003 or 2004? At least that is the date on the instruction leaflet. I don't think 4 or 5 years is too short a time for a model turnover at all, especially in the modern era where the hardcore stereophonic hi fi traditionalist manufacturers such as MF are wanting to add features such as USB DAC support.


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## GordonFreeman

Since when was the V3 good looking?


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## threed

Anyone tried the DAC ? How is it performing ?


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## Gradofan2

So... has anyone tried one of these yet? 

 If so, what were your impressions?

 Does anyone know, if this is a tube hybrid amp. I guess the MF site does identify it as having a "tube triode class A front end."

 If it is a tube hybrid amp - what tubes does it use... and... where have you seen the tubes identified?


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... has anyone tried one of these yet? 

 If so, what were your impressions?

 Does anyone know, if this is a tube hybrid amp. I guess the MF site does identify it as having a "tube triode class A front end."

 If it is a tube hybrid amp - what tubes does it use... and... where have you seen the tubes identified?_

 

It uses ECC88 (6922) just like the v3, according to the description of this dealer.


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## Kees

I got one to try out from my dealer.
 Not burned in yet of course, but I couldn't resist to do some listening.
 Tried my K340 (Headphile modded), HD650, DX1000, Darth Beyers, W10VTG and PS-1. 
 Compared with old X-can v3 (Pinkie modded) and Corda Prehead MKII SE.
 First reaction after one hour: 
 THIS AMP IS NOT GOING BACK TO THE DEALER!

 Keywords: power, detail, dynamics, separation (together that makes "good articulation", which I find very important) and POWER.
 The ease and authority with which this amp handles both the PS-1 and the K340 is astounding...


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## milkpowder

Powerful enough for K1000s?


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Powerful enough for K1000s?_

 

Yes. 
 With volume between 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock.


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## argentum

Kees is yours with the extra power supply or the regular one ?


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argentum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kees is yours with the extra power supply or the regular one ?_

 

The regular wallwart.
 I have a Little Pinkie PSU here though, that I am going to try later on.


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## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got one to try out from my dealer.
 Not burned in yet of course, but I couldn't resist to do some listening.
 Tried my K340 (Headphile modded), HD650, DX1000, Darth Beyers, W10VTG and PS-1. 
 Compared with old X-can v3 (Pinkie modded) and Corda Prehead MKII SE.
 First reaction after one hour: 
 THIS AMP IS NOT GOING BACK TO THE DEALER!

 Keywords: power, detail, dynamics, separation (together that makes "good articulation", which I find very important) and POWER.
 The ease and authority with which this amp handles both the PS-1 and the K340 is astounding..._

 

So it bettters your MKII SE?


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## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. 
 With volume between 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock.




_

 

I would have never believed it. Guess they weren't blowing air up are arse..


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## Gradofan2

My experience with the v8 (posted elsewhere, because I'd forgotten about this thread) is: its way overrated.

 Unlike the v3, which was pretty good with all phones, the v8 is only great with low impedence phones, like the D5000s. Though even then, the POT must be set to 12-1 O'clock to get enough volume. 

 I should say... the v8 totally transforms the D5000s into superb headphones - but, you have to like bright headphones. 

 With Senns and other high impedence phones your talking 3-4 O'clock - you've almost maxed the POT out. 

 And... its supposed to provide 1.3 watts per channel into 32 ohms - which is 30% more power than the v3. 

 It needs a major "shot in the butt" to drive most phones well. 

 Must have been the "trade-off" they made to get it to drive low impedence phones really well. And... if they configured it to drive high impedence phones really well (like Senns), it would have been priced at a $1000, or $1200. 

 Just a guess - but... I think its pretty likely the reason it doesn't suit all phones well.

 Now this is with the standard 500 mwatt walwart. Perhaps the X-PSUv8 makes the difference - though I doubt it. 

 Do - power supplys add power to an amp? If so... then that may be the explanation - as well as the "marketing angle" - which everyone should be aware of - it's really a $1000+ amp to get the performance you'd want.


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...With Senns and other high impedence phones your talking 3-4 O'clock - you've almost maxed the POT out. _

 

It drives my K340 very loud at 1 o'clock and it is way too loud at 3 o'clock....
 Never heard them better either... 
 The HD650: I can't bear them (volume wise) past 11 o'clock. Between 8 and 10 o'clock is normal listening levels. 

 Yours must have been defective....


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kool bubba ice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it bettters your MKII SE?_

 

For most headphones: yes. 
_Maybe_ the Prehead has a slight edge for the DX1000 and the Darths.
 But I need more burn in an more time to listen.


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## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It drives my K340 very loud at 1 o'clock and it is way too loud at 3 o'clock....
 Never heard them better either... 
 The HD650: I can't bear them (volume wise) past 11 o'clock. Between 8 and 10 o'clock is normal listening levels. 

 Yours must have been defective...._

 

Do you have the X-PSUv8, or are you using the stock walwart?

 What source are you using - does it have a high gain on the output signal?

 I'm using the stock walwart - and it seems to be underpowered with either of my sources - so I don't think it's a weak output signal.

 Perhaps, I'll return it for another to see if it may be defective, as you say - I can't believe they'd offer an "upgrade" from the v3 that doesn't perform as well with Senns - though it is great with Denons (but even then it must be set to about 1 O'clock).


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have the X-PSUv8, or are you using the stock walwart?

 What source are you using - does it have a high gain on the output signal?

 I'm using the stock walwart - and it seems to be underpowered with either of my sources - so I don't think it's a weak output signal.

 Perhaps, I'll return it for another to see if it may be defective, as you say - I can't believe they'd offer an "upgrade" from the v3 that doesn't perform as well with Senns - though it is great with Denons (but even then it must be set to about 1 O'clock)._

 

I'm using the stock wallwart and the Little Pinkie PSU (doesn't make any difference in volume setting, but the Little Pinkie _is_ better...). 
 Source is my computer (FLAC) via M-audio transit optical out to my JOB DA48 DAC, which feeds all three amps (v3, loop out, Prehead, loop out, v8).
 No high/low gain settings.

 I'm afraid you must have a lemmon....
 Maybe a tube issue (not very likely for two channels at the same time, but you never know)?


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## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the stock wallwart and the Little Pinkie PSU (doesn't make any difference in volume setting, but the Little Pinkie is better...). 
 Source is my computer (FLAC) via M-audio transit optical out to my JOB DA48 DAC, which feeds all three amps (v3, loop out, Prehead, loop out, v8).
 No high/low gain settings.

 I'm afraid you must have a lemmon....
 Maybe a tube issue (not very likely for two channels at the same time, but you never know)?_

 

So... the Little Pinkie v3i works well with the v8 also? Quieter, clearer, tighter bass?

 Do you have to turn the POT up when you switch from Grados to Senns? Do you have any other low impedence, inefficient phones? If so, do you have to turn the POT up when you switch from them to Senns?

 When comparing the realtive POT settings for your v3, compared to the v8, when driving Senns - do you notice the POT must be set at a higher level with the v8?

 As I said... I have to turn the POT up at least 25% when I switch from the 25 ohm D5000s to the HD580/600s to achieve the same volume level. This seems illogical to me - that more inefficient phones, like the D5000s, would actually sound louder at lower POT settings than the Senns. But... I assume that's the result of the impedence miss-match between the v8 and the Senns.

 I should say... after the levels are set to the proper volume - not only do the D5000s sound superb, but the Senns do as well.


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... the Little Pinkie v3i works well with the v8 also? Quieter, clearer, tighter bass?_

 

Yes,yes and yes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have to turn the POT up when you switch from Grados to Senns? _

 

Yes.
 From slightly under 10 o' clock for the PS-1 to 11 o' clock for the HD650.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have any other low impedence, inefficient phones? If so, do you have to turn the POT up when you switch from them to Senns?_

 

Darth beyers: a little past 10 o'clock 
 ATH W10VTG: 9 o'clock.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When comparing the realtive POT settings for your v3, compared to the v8, when driving Senns - do you notice the POT must be set at a higher level with the v8?_

 

No. The other way around, I have to turn the v3 up a little ( 1 hour) more.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I should say... after the levels are set to the proper volume - not only do the D5000s sound superb, but the Senns do as well._

 

I was not expecting a whole lot from this amp, but it surprised me BIG time.
 I like it very much.


----------



## Gradofan2

Kees,

 Thanks for all your effort.

 I'm beginning to sound like one of the "real nuts" on this forum - "got to get some help."

 Just one more "pain-in-the-ass" question - can you tell me what the output impedence is on your DAC, and any gain level, or output power, it might have?

 I am able to "correct" the impendence miss-match with the line stage of the Monarchy M24 DAC, which is my source. If I drive the v8 from the LS of the M24, I am able to adjust the output signal level of the DAC + LS up, via the LS POT, to allow me to dial back the v8 POT. But... I don't think I should have to do that... and... I'd rather not run the signal through the additional circuit of the LS - it's a very slight bit clearer directly out of the DAC output. 

 But... when I have to turn the v8 POT up that high (without the additional boost from the M24 LS POT turned up), I begin to get tube rush, or hiss - though at very low levels. The S/N ratio of the v8 must not be all that great, but that shouldn't matter, if you don't have to dial the POT above 10-12 O'clock - at which its totally silent. 

 I still think I may have a bad unit, but just don't know. Your DAC may have a very high output level, or better impedence match, which avoids the need to dial up the POT of the v8.

 Thanks...


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kees,

 Thanks for all your effort.

 I'm beginning to sound like one of the "real nuts" on this forum - "got to get some help."

 Just one more "pain-in-the-ass" question - can you tell me what the output impedence is on your DAC, and any gain level, or output power, it might have?

 I am able to "correct" the impendence miss-match with the line stage of the Monarchy M24 DAC, which is my source. If I drive the v8 from the LS of the M24, I am able to adjust the output signal level of the DAC + LS up, via the LS POT, to allow me to dial back the v8 POT. But... I don't think I should have to do that... and... I'd rather not run the signal through the additional circuit of the LS - it's a very slight bit clearer directly out of the DAC output. 

 But... when I have to turn the v8 POT up that high (without the additional boost from the M24 LS POT turned up), I begin to get tube rush, or hiss - though at very low levels. The S/N ratio of the v8 must not be all that great, but that shouldn't matter, if you don't have to dial the POT above 10-12 O'clock - at which its totally silent. 

 I still think I may have a bad unit, but just don't know. Your DAC may have a very high output level, or better impedence match, which avoids the need to dial up the POT of the v8.

 Thanks..._

 

It's 2v in 2.2 kOhm.
 All specs can be found here (it is the DA48, not the 96).
 And it is no trouble at all.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's 2v in 2.2 kOhm.
 All specs can be found here (it is the DA48, not the 96).
 And it is no trouble at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks again... 

 I'll report that to the MF techs when I discuss it with them.

 But... it really makes no difference... this amp is just getting better and better as it burns in - with any of my heaphones - really phenomenal!

 Using the Line Stage output of my M24 DAC has pretty well resolved any "real issue." The rest is just my OCD. 

 The v8 has to be one of the real "all time bargains," and... I can't get over how great its sounding with the D5000s and HD580/600s now. I think these might even be edging out my RS-1s and AD2000s - still close. 

 At $550... its a real "no brainer."


----------



## dantztiludrop

OK....I really have been paying attention to what you guys have been saying, so hopefully this question is not somehow ignoring the obvious(?).

 I have been looking for an amp that will bring out the best in my low-z D2000s & have been thinking hybrid....then just came upon the v8, which sounds like it could be a winner. I am wondering though about a v8 vs. v3 (with Pink Floyd mods) comparison in regards to the low-z phones. Is that 30% power increase the v8 has over the v3 what will make all the difference in the world? Or would you say that the v3 w/mods could enjoy that same special blissful marriage? Is the v8's match with low impedance HPs the only real way to go in this situation?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK....I really have been paying attention to what you guys have been saying, so hopefully this question is not somehow ignoring the obvious(?).

 I have been looking for an amp that will bring out the best in my low-z D2000s & have been thinking hybrid....then just came upon the v8, which sounds like it could be a winner. I am wondering though about a v8 vs. v3 (with Pink Floyd mods) comparison in regards to the low-z phones. Is that 30% power increase the v8 has over the v3 what will make all the difference in the world? Or would you say that the v3 w/mods could enjoy that same special blissful marriage? Is the v8's match with low impedance HPs the only real way to go in this situation?_

 

I don't know how you would appreciate the difference in SQ between the v3 and the v8. 
 I think that the v3 is the most underrated amp in HeadFi. It is the most allround amp I've heard so far and a bargain for the price.
 The v8 is better. In my perception a lot better. Better articulated, a lot more space / headstage and better separation. I have listened for just a couple of hours now, it isn't even burned in properly... It is also more expensive, but still a steal in comparison.
 Again: _I_ cannot possibly say how _you_ would appreciate the difference between the two.

 btw: I have a very nice v3 (fully Pinkie modded) for sale.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been looking for an amp that will bring out the best in my low-z D2000s & have been thinking hybrid....then just came upon the v8, which sounds like it could be a winner. I am wondering though about a v8 vs. v3 (with Pink Floyd mods) comparison in regards to the low-z phones. Is that 30% power increase the v8 has over the v3 what will make all the difference in the world? Or would you say that the v3 w/mods could enjoy that same special blissful marriage? Is the v8's match with low impedance HPs the only real way to go in this situation?_

 

You probably should try and find someone who's got the D2000/5000s with the X-CANv3... and... see what they think.

 My PF X-CANv3 was great with Grados (32 ohms), and of course Senns... but... I've never heard it with the Denons. I'm pretty sure the v3 has a bit different circuit design with a higher output impedence - which makes it mate superbly with Senns. It drove my Senns a bit more easily than my v8 does. So I would speculate that it might struggle a bit with the 25 ohm Denons. 

 From what I can recall of the sound of the PF v3... the v8 does seem to do everything better - though its not a huge difference. The overall SQ of the two is very similar in terms of balance. 

 I think MF specifically improved the performance of the X-CAN with low impedence phones - so the v8 could be a better match with the Denons.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... I think that the v3 is the most underrated amp in HeadFi..._

 

I disagree! It is the Musical Fidelity X-Can V2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 IMO although the PinkFloyd modded X-Can V3 w/ a Little Pinkie is more accurate and detail than a PinkFloyd moddec X-Can V2 w/ a Little Pinkie it fails to keep my foot tapping like the V2 does. IMO the V2 is just more fun to listen to.


----------



## arteom

how does the DAC perform in this unit again? not so good from the few posts that i read, anyone who has been using the unit care to confirm this?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does the DAC perform in this unit again? not so good from the few posts that i read, anyone who has been using the unit care to confirm this?_

 

I tried it today, with my Notebook PC and WMP. Had to turn the POT to 100% to get the volume high enough. May be an issue with my v8 - don't know yet. Or... it could be that the output of my PC with WMP is not high enough to drive the amp at normal volumes - impedence miss-match. 

 What I heard wasn't bad... but... of course it doesn't rival a good CDP/DAC.


----------



## arteom

im really itching to get this! damn. I am still a noob though when it comes to DAC's. Currently im using ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230248360751 end time May-07-08 06:36:19 PDT) as a dac/headphone amp out of my audigy 4 pro optical out. Would the v8 be a considerable upgrade in terms of the DAC? or would it be equal in that aspect. Would it be a good idea to keep the zero as a sort of a pre-amp? Im just wondering that if I were to buy this if I could make some money back by selling the Zero. I would be using this with a Denon D2000 set of cans. Also someone mentioned that music direct has 30 day return policy, is that without any restocking fee's and such? 

 Thanks, any info here is appreciated.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im really itching to get this! damn. I am still a noob though when it comes to DAC's. Currently im using ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230248360751 end time May-07-08 06:36:19 PDT) as a dac/headphone amp out of my audigy 4 pro optical out. Would the v8 be a considerable upgrade in terms of the DAC? or would it be equal in that aspect. Would it be a good idea to keep the zero as a sort of a pre-amp? Im just wondering that if I were to buy this if I could make some money back by selling the Zero. I would be using this with a Denon D2000 set of cans. Also someone mentioned that music direct has 30 day return policy, is that without any restocking fee's and such? 

 Thanks, any info here is appreciated._

 

Yes... (no re-stocking fee - if in "like new" condition within 30 days).

 Music Direct is a great vendor - very reliable and responsive. Don't hesitate to buy from them.

 The D2000s won't sound better than they do with the X-CANv8. 

 Though - its DAC is not likely to be any better than other USB DACs - which is not great, but not terrible. By the way... the X-CANv8 I have has very low volume when using the USB DAC driven by WMP out of my PC only - may be some problem with mine, though. I would talk with Music Direct about this issue, and have them confirm whether its a common issue - and be "on the record" with them regarding this potential issue, before buying from them. 

 But... if you're using a CDP/DAC... the amp can not be beaten for $550.


----------



## Gradofan2

...


----------



## Gradofan2

Kees...

 Are you using any kind of "pre-amplifier" / "tube buffer," which increases the gain, with your v8?

 Just looking for a possible explanation for the difference in the volume of our amps.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kees...

 Are you using any kind of "pre-amplifier" / "tube buffer," which increases the gain, with your v8?

 Just looking for a possible explanation for the difference in the volume of our amps._

 

No. Straight from DAC out to line-in of the v8.
 I changed the tubes. Tried several: Philips miniwatt SQ and the standard issue from my Earmax. Makes a nice change (although the Gold Dragons are not bad at all, just a bit harsh highs), but has no effect at all on the volume.
 It would be nice if you could just come over and check it out yourself, wouldn't it?


----------



## arteom

so so close to doing it, one more question tho. It has two headphone outs, if you were to connect two headphones but with different impedance say one 25 and another 70 wouldn't the two be playing at different volume? And would the difference be one is moderate while the other really loud, or almost the same level? 

 Thanks!


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so so close to doing it, one more question tho. It has two headphone outs, if you were to connect two headphones but with different impedance say one 25 and another 70 wouldn't the two be playing at different volume? And would the difference be one is moderate while the other really loud, or almost the same level? 

 Thanks!_

 

Yes, they would play at different levels of course.
 The difference between 25 and 70 is not that big, but even the difference between 40 (my ATH) and 300 (Senn) is reasonable. They are both at a comfortable listening level with the volume at 10 o' clock.


----------



## tfarney

Quote:


 its DAC is not likely to be any better than other USB DACs - which is not great, but not terrible. 
 

I very curious about this. There are a number if very highly-regarded DACs that off USB connection, including the DAC-1. Is there something inherently problematic in USB DACs?

 Tim


----------



## atbglenn

I'd love to see some internal pictures......PLEASE


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to see some internal pictures......PLEASE_

 

Not sure if they're any good, but here you go...










 Next time I do some tube rolling I 'll try better...


----------



## mnemonix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I very curious about this. There are a number if very highly-regarded DACs that off USB connection, including the DAC-1. Is there something inherently problematic in USB DACs?
 Tim_

 

I think this was a misleading criticism. There's nothing inherently problematic with running a dac from a usb connection. Cheaper usb/dac solutions offer the usb receiver & dac on one chip and by their nature tend to be budget solutions. The DAC-1 and Opus for example use a separate DAC chip fed I2S from the usb receiver module. In these cases they are as god as any other DAC using the same chip - the input type becomes irrelevant. Someone more knowledgeable may chime in to correct any misapprehensions I have on the subject though.


----------



## arteom

well... ive done it, i ordered one from musicdirect!! 

 hopefully it will be good enough that I can justify selling my Zero to get some money back. 

 oh and uh...woot.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if they're any good, but here you go...











 Next time I do some tube rolling I 'll try better..._

 


 Thanks Kees 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can you possibly take higher resolution pictures ? I'd like to see the output devices if that isn't asking too much. Take lots of pictures, and post them here if you can. Thanks again!

 Glenn


----------



## DarkAngel

*OK I am going to get one of these...........*

 I will use as USB amp from PC computer using Vista operating system, will use Window Media Player 11 as music playback software. Will normally use Senn 650/Zu Mobius headphones with this amp, I have owned many pieces of Musical Fidelity gear over the years.......starting with MF Synthesis integrated mosfet amp over 20 years ago!

 Already thinking about tube upgrade, can't find Tung Sol model so looking at:
 -JJ Tesla gold pin
 -Electro Harmonics gold pin
 -EI Elite

 Anyone have info on stock ECC88 tubes included with amp?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*OK I am going to get one of these...........*

 I will use as USB amp from PC computer using Vista operating system, will use Window Media Player 11 as music playback software. Will normally use Senn 650/Zu Mobius headphones with this amp, I have owned many pieces of Musical Fidelity gear over the years.......starting with MF Synthesis integrated mosfet amp over 20 years ago!

 Already thinking about tube upgrade, can't find Tung Sol model so looking at:
 -JJ Tesla gold pin
 -Electro Harmonics gold pin
 -EI Elite

 Anyone have info on stock ECC88 tubes included with amp?_

 

See the X-CANv3 moddified threads for tube selection. I think the v8 uses the same JAN Phillips 6922 tubes that the v3 uses. Its a great tube - the ones you're suggesting are no better. 

 If you want to try some tubes that may be better - try the Saratov 6H23N-EBs, and the Voskhod 6N1P-EVs (if I recall correctly). Again, these are discussed, at length in the v3 threads.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*OK I am going to get one of these...........*

 I will use as USB amp from PC computer using Vista operating system, will use Window Media Player 11 as music playback software. Will normally use Senn 650/Zu Mobius headphones with this amp, I have owned many pieces of Musical Fidelity gear over the years.......starting with MF Synthesis integrated mosfet amp over 20 years ago!

 Already thinking about tube upgrade, can't find Tung Sol model so looking at:
 -JJ Tesla gold pin
 -Electro Harmonics gold pin
 -EI Elite

 Anyone have info on stock ECC88 tubes included with amp?_

 

The stock tubes are Golden Dragons. Actually very good sounding. Very spacious and detailed, only a bit thin and sharp in the highs.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock tubes are Golden Dragons. Actually very good sounding. Very spacious and detailed, only a bit thin and sharp in the highs._

 

What are "Golden Dragons?" Are these Brimar tubes made in Yugoslavia?

Tubes Direct - The Tube Superstore - PM Guitar Tubes - Golden Dragon - Ei Elites

 What other tubes have you tried... and how do they compare?

 Whatever... they do sound good.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock tubes are Golden Dragons. Actually very good sounding. Very spacious and detailed, only a bit thin and sharp in the highs._

 

Just received my X-Can V8 from Music Direct, came stock with two *JAN Phillips 6922* tubes.
 Time for break in..........

 I must also mention *V8 looks much better *in person than in photo, large volume knob is a nice warm gunmetal finish with small bright beveled edge that glistens like a jewel

 I did pick up a X-PSU V8 also


----------



## tfarney

Congrats! Let us know how it sounds.

 Tim


----------



## DarkAngel

Jewel like volume knob


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are "Golden Dragons?" Are these Brimar tubes made in Yugoslavia?

Tubes Direct - The Tube Superstore - PM Guitar Tubes - Golden Dragon - Ei Elites

 What other tubes have you tried... and how do they compare?

 Whatever... they do sound good._

 

Golden Dragons are Chinese.
 I have also tried Mullard E88CC, Philips Miniwatt SQ and Rostok 6H23-EB (and the stock 6922 from my Earmax that have no label or marking).


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Golden Dragons are Chinese.
 I have also tried Mullard E88CC, Philips Miniwatt SQ and Rostok 6H23-EB (and the stock 6922 from my Earmax that have no label or marking)._

 

So... the tubes in the link I provided are not the same tubes? 

 Odd that they'd use the same brand name, if not.

 When you say Rostok - I assume that is also "Voskhod" or "Saratov"(just the difference in the Russian characters)?

 So... how did those compare to the stock tubes? Likely a wee bit darker, but with more solid bass??? Probably a better compliment to bright phones, like Grados and ATHs.


----------



## DarkAngel

X-Can v8 USB computer set-up was perfect, Vista PC instantly recognized USB connection to v8 amp and automatically loaded drivers. 

 Playing music through Windows Media Player 11 with volume set to 100% the X-Can v8 volume control is at 11 o'clock for average listening levels to my Senn 650.


----------



## tfarney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X-Can v8 USB computer set-up was perfect, Vista PC instantly recognized USB connection to v8 amp and automatically loaded drivers. 

 Playing music through Windows Media Player 11 with volume set to 100% the X-Can v8 volume control is at 11 o'clock for normal listening to my Senn 650._

 

How does it sound? Or perhaps more to the point, do you have another source you have run through the X-can to compare to it's built-in DAC? Can you hear a significant difference?

 Tim


----------



## NajoBB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Jewel like volume knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well...I take back my first comment about the looks. It's actually nice from that angle. I hope it looks even better in person like you sad since I'm going to buy one too.


----------



## tfarney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NajoBB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well...I take back my first comment about the looks. It's actually nice from that angle. I hope it looks even better in person like you sad since I'm going to buy one too._

 

It's a simple box, well-done. Like most good audio equipment has been for decades. I think we've become too accustomed to fussy design and exposed, glowing tubes. We've forgotten that this stuff is a means to an end. No need for it to be ugly mind you, but the X-Can is certainly not ugly.

 Tim


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does it sound? Or perhaps more to the point, do you have another source you have run through the X-can to compare to it's built-in DAC? Can you hear a significant difference?

 Tim_

 

I would also be interested in hearing peoples opinion on this.


----------



## Gradofan2

I'd avoid the X-CANv8 until MF resolves the problem with the low power output - they'll no doubt be announcing an "update" soon. 

 As I indicated below - the amp has too little power output to drive any headphone well at reasonable volumes. 

 I tried it with 5 different sources, in combination with 5 different phones ranging from 25 ohms to 300 ohms impedence... and... had to set the POT to 75% to 100% of max to achieve reasonable volume levels, and it has excessive hiss / noise at those levels. 

 My DV332 sounds fine at reasonable volume levels with any combination of these sources and phones when set only to 40% to 50% of the POT max. 

 Returned the amp to the retailer - who checked it out and reported it was performing to MF specs. So - it must be an issue with all MF X-CANv8s.

 I'd avoid it until they get the issue resolved. 

 It does sound fine when driven from my pre-amp / line stage - but, that shouldn't be necessary. And its one of the few amps that can properly drive the D5000s - but - you'll have to use a pre-amp / line stage to achieve reasonable volume levels... unless... your source has very, very high signal strength from its output.


----------



## DannyB

Someone recently posted some negative comments in the general section of Audioasylum for what ever it's worth.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, pretty disappointing for a company like MF to release a product that sounds deeply flawed. Didn't they actually TRY the thing before they released it?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, pretty disappointing for a company like MF to release a product that sounds deeply flawed. Didn't they actually TRY the thing before they released it?_

 

Agreed... but you know... Rega did the same thing with the Apollo and Saturn.

 I simply don't understand how such companies think they can just simply ignore their errors, and their customers... and... get away with it without harming their reputations. 

 I guess they haven't learned in this day of instantaneous world-wide communication... they can't. But... then... perhaps they don't realize it - neither one of them have email communications from the public.

 It's too bad... because the amp sounds really great with the D5000s... if... you've got a powerful enough signal into it.

 Oh yes... I should say... Music Direct's customer service has been absolutely outstanding!!!


----------



## arteom

I received the x-can v8 yesterday. I hooked it up through USB, havent taken the volume past 11. It sounds great; clear, authoritative, smooth. Makes me appreciate the lows on my D2000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I am really happy with my purchase. Obviously gradofan you have a faulty unit, I don't know if you were part of the unlucky few or the unlucky many, but it happens. From what I've read musical fidelity seems to have a pretty decent reputation.

 Edit: I'm pretty sure Bassdude on audioasylum is gradofan2 here. The same on the rockgrotto forums. gradofan I apologize if I am mistaken.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received the x-can v8 yesterday. I hooked it up through USB, havent taken the volume past 11. It sounds great; clear, authoritative, smooth. Makes me appreciate the lows on my D2000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am really happy with my purchase. Obviously gradofan you have a faulty unit, I don't know if you were part of the unlucky few or the unlucky many, but it happens. From what I've read musical fidelity seems to have a pretty decent reputation._

 

You may be right.

 "Kees" also reports that his is fine - though I guess his would be the 240V unit.

 Where did you purchase yours? Are you in the US? 

 So... your signal is just coming from your CD drive in your PC, and WinAmp?

 Have you tried it with other sources? 

 I assume your sound card / software could have some "extra gain" that might not be standard from other sources (e.g. CDPs, etc.) - acting a bit like a pre-amp / line stage? And... that you've got all your volume settings on your PC set to the max?

 I suppose the Music Direct tech - could have just "blown" his inspection / testing of my amp? Or, that Music Direct could just have received a "bad batch?" 

 Maybe I should order another unit, from another vendor and try it - because it would be highly unlikely that MF would attempt to sell something that performs as badly as mine does.


----------



## arteom

I live in the US. I purchased through musicdirect. Which I think I got the last unit of that particular batch (I checked the site after my order and wait time had chenged from 24hrs to 2-3weeks). It's through USB, so I thought that essentially the v8 acts as the soundcard? If not my motherboard is a Asus P5W DH-Deluxe, research it if you like. I don't have any extra gains on, that I have control over (which I believe i do). I have my volume in windows @ 100% usually (is there any reason not to?), I did just try to lower it, I use Vista x64 OS and had to take the volume down to 14% and the xcan's volume pot up to 12 to get to normal listening levels. I also used a Denon dj mixer digital to a Zero amp/DAC to v8's line input, and didnt really need to change the volume much. If you would like in a few days I can try the x-can out of my dads laptop and see if its any different.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I live in the US. I purchased through musicdirect. Which I think I got the last unit of that particular batch (I checked the site after my order and wait time had chenged from 24hrs to 2-3weeks). It's through USB, so I thought that essentially the v8 acts as the soundcard? If not my motherboard is a Asus P5W DH-Deluxe, research it if you like. I don't have any extra gains on, that I have control over (which I believe i do). I have my volume in windows @ 100% usually (is there any reason not to?), I did just try to lower it, I use Vista x64 OS and had to take the volume down to 14% and the xcan's volume pot up to 12 to get to normal listening levels. I also used a Denon dj mixer digital to a Zero amp/DAC to v8's line input, and didnt really need to change the volume much. If you would like in a few days I can try the x-can out of my dads laptop and see if its any different._

 

No... that won't be necessary... 

 Is the Denon dj mixer digital a CD transport, or a music server?

 Do you just use the DAC out of the Zero Amp/DAC, or do you run the signal through the Zero amp, before running it to the v8 amp? Perhaps the Zero amp is adding some gain to the signal, if you run it through the amp?

 Well... I hope I can find a good unit... somewhere - because the v8 does sound phenomenal with the D5000s. It just clears them up a whole lot... I'm sure it does the same for the D2000s (the result of the v8s low impedance).


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X-Can v8 USB computer set-up was perfect, Vista PC instantly recognized USB connection to v8 amp and automatically loaded drivers. 

 Playing music through Windows Media Player 11 with volume set to 100% the X-Can v8 volume control is at 11 o'clock for average listening levels to my Senn 600/650._

 

Gentlemen I reported this info several days ago here.......as a USB amp 11-12 o'clock volume is plenty loud for average rock CD.

 Just now I connected X-Can v8 directly to ESound E5 CD player which outputs 2Vrms (very average CDP output reading) and I had to turn down X-Can V8 to 9-10 o'clock volume using Senn 600/650....this amp has plenty of power for me! 

 Volume level is actually slightly lower when used as USB amp, but still plenty loud at 11-12 o'clock.......purchased from Music Direct


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No... that won't be necessary... 

 Is the Denon dj mixer digital a CD transport, or a music server?

 Do you just use the DAC out of the Zero Amp/DAC, or do you run the signal through the Zero amp, before running it to the v8 amp? Perhaps the Zero amp is adding some gain to the signal, if you run it through the amp?

 Well... I hope I can find a good unit... somewhere - because the v8 does sound phenomenal with the D5000s. It just clears them up a whole lot... I'm sure it does the same for the D2000s (the result of the v8s low impedance)._

 

The Denon is a DJ mixer that I use to route my turntables through, I use it's coaxial out to a Zero DAC which then I run to v8. The zero act's as a pre-amp, it can add gain, but I do not use that feature.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gentlemen I reported this info several days ago here.......as a USB amp 11 o'clock is plenty loud for average rock CD.

 Just now I connected X-Can v8 directly to ESound E5 CD player which outputs 2Vrms (very average CDP output reading) and I had to turn down X-Can V8 to 9-10 o'clock volume using Senn 600/650....this amp has plenty of power for me! 

 Volume level is actually slightly lower when used as USB amp, but still plenty loud at 11 o'clock.......purchased from Music Direct_

 

I thought there were several that had reported to me they did not have any similar problems with theirs.

 That's pretty amazing that you can drive your Senns with that low a POT setting. Mine has to be set to around 3 O.clock. 

 Well... I must just have a bad unit. I'll check with Music Direct again tomorrow to see if they can find a good unit, test it with a couple of average CDPs and Senns, and send it to me, if they find a good one.

 As I said... the amp is otherwise... pretty phenomenal, especially at that price.


----------



## Kasper

I have a question to those of you that have heard the v8. Gradofan Reported on the other tread that the v8 was more laidback than the v3. Is that everybodys opinion? 
 I am looking after an amp to drive my W1000 properly. 
 I had some problems with them first, sounding harsh in the treble, but after I gave them 3 days of pink noise they behave. Still I feel I need an amp that can better handle the 42 ohm impedance of the W1000. I need a sweet, smooth and natural sounding amp. What other people call detailed, sounds like distorsion to me. oh - and a completely black background Please!
 Is the xcan v8 what I am looking for, or can some tube rolling make it become what I am looking for!

 Currently i listen to classical and jazz music through:
 Rega Apollo - Rega Ear - AT-W1000/hd650

 Rega Brio and speakers for Rock

 thanks for any reply!


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question to those of you that have heard the v8. Gradofan Reported on the other tread that the v8 was more laidback than the v3. Is that everybodys opinion? 
 I am looking after an amp to drive my W1000 properly. 
 I had some problems with them first, sounding harsh in the treble, but after I gave them 3 days of pink noise they behave. Still I feel I need an amp that can better handle the 42 ohm impedance of the W1000. I need a sweet, smooth and natural sounding amp. What other people call detailed, sounds like distorsion to me. oh - and a completely black background Please!
 Is the xcan v8 what I am looking for, or can some tube rolling make it become what I am looking for!

 Currently i listen to classical and jazz music through:
 Rega Apollo - Rega Ear - AT-W1000/hd650

 Rega Brio and speakers for Rock

 thanks for any reply!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Definitely.
 Smooth, laidback, spacious it is.
 It is also an incredibly good matching amp for my ATH W10VTG. I don't have the W1000 (heard them though), but I think it could indeed be a very good match.


----------



## Kasper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely.
 Smooth, laidback, spacious it is.
 It is also an incredibly good matching amp for my ATH W10VTG. I don't have the W1000 (heard them though), but I think it could indeed be a very good match._

 

Thanks for the reply Kees!
 I think you wrote somewhere that the stock tubes sounded a bit thin and sharp in the treble. Is that correct understood - and what other tubes would be a more smooth option?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply Kees!
 I think you wrote somewhere that the stock tubes sounded a bit thin and sharp in the treble. Is that correct understood - and what other tubes would be a more smooth option?_

 

I read that other people got different stock tubes than I did, so take that in consideration. I have the Golden Dragons, and they smoothed out considerably after 100+ hours of use. They are actually not bad at all.
 Smooth tubes (that I have used) would be Mullards ECC88 (lush and warm) or Philips Miniwatt SQ (more midrange oriented, less "spacey"). I am looking at some Telefunken PCC88, but my wallet is barking....


----------



## Gradofan2

The Russian (Saratov) 6H23N-EVs (EBs) and the Russian (Voskhod) 6N1P-EVs (EBs) also sound good - they were widely acclaimed in the v3 - no doubt would "sound great in the v8." Both seemed to sound much more solid, with deeper bass, and less harsh highs. 

 And of course the Amperex or Philips tubes "have it all."


----------



## Iostream

I am interested in any impressions of this with AKG K701s. For an idea of upstream, I am currently running Squeezebox 3 -> XDACv8 -> MF A5 Int -> Meier Aria. Would the X-CANv8 be an improvement over the Aria? I dont care about the USB DAC, I assume the X-DACv8 has the same USB DAC or better. How would the headphone amp compare to the Meier Aria?


----------



## Kasper

Hi Kees!
 How do you compare it to your earmax pro! The earmax should be a pretty good amp with the w1000.
 thanks


----------



## Kasper

oh - And can anyone compare the v8 with the Yamamoto. Unfair of course but please try!


----------



## Czilla9000

Kees....I'm desperately looking for a tube amp with a USB DAC to run with the JVC DX1000. How do they sound with the JVC's?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Kees!
 How do you compare it to your earmax pro! The earmax should be a pretty good amp with the w1000.
 thanks_

 

With my W10VTG the V8 wins hands down from the Earmax Pro.
 The Earmax is just not delivering the same amount of punch and drive.


----------



## Czilla9000

Kees...in case you were typing while I was posting...

 ...how does it sound with the JVC's?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Czilla9000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kees....I'm desperately looking for a tube amp with a USB DAC to run with the JVC DX1000. How do they sound with the JVC's?_

 

The DX1000 perform very well from the v8. I slightly prefer the old Corda Prehead (I find this the best match yet) but with the right tubes the v8 comes very very close. Much better than from the Rudistor RPX-100 for instance (5 times the price IIRC and extremely good, but just not the right match for these phones), just shows it is not always the most expensive gear that performs the best. In my opinion and experience it is all about finding the right combination.


----------



## Czilla9000

Thanks...so if I were to buy the xCanV8 stock online....it would be a good match for the JVC's?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Czilla9000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks...so if I were to buy the xCanV8 stock online....it would be a good match for the JVC's?_

 

To my ears it definitely is.
 I have to add that I have not tried it's dac, so I cannot comment on that.
 But as an amp I find it an absolute bargain.


----------



## Kasper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my W10VTG the V8 wins hands down from the Earmax Pro.
 The Earmax is just not delivering the same amount of punch and drive._

 

Thanks again!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I will have to audition this. The fine thing is that the xcan is actually for sale in denmark, even with a return policy. The earmax and the (to my wallet), too expensive Yamamoto I would have to buy solely on recomendations.


----------



## Mammut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I will have to audition this. The fine thing is that the xcan is actually for sale in denmark, even with a return policy. The earmax and the (to my wallet), too expensive Yamamoto I would have to buy solely on recomendations._

 

Hi Kasper

 I just bought the xcan8 from TAPECONNECTION this weekend. It was a very nice shop and they had Sennheier and Grado's too


----------



## QQQ

Why only USB to acces DAC, that's very unfortunate.


----------



## Kasper

Hello Again!
 Two more questions!
 One for Kees. You say the xcan has more drive than the earmax, but does it have the earmax smoothnes and its legendary feeling of being present at the recording? I guess that would be my most important parameter.

 And then a question for whoever have tried. Can the v8 also drive inear phones or will it go too loud?

 thanks again!


----------



## Kasper

Hi Mammut!
 nice to meet a dane! Thanks for the hint. I know tapeconnection from before. It is a nice shop. Their knowledge is not always the best. They try to sound smarter than they really are. But the service is good! - And they got a return policy. Not many does anymore as some people take advantage of it for having parties with expensive equipment friday and then returning it monday.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Again!
 Two more questions!
 One for Kees. You say the xcan has more drive than the earmax, but does it have the earmax smoothnes and its legendary feeling of being present at the recording? I guess that would be my most important parameter._

 

The Earmax is slightly better in that respect
 The v8 is pretty close though. Especially with the Mullard tubes I'm using now.
  Quote:


 And then a question for whoever have tried. Can the v8 also drive inear phones or will it go too loud?

 thanks again! 
 

The v8 works excellent with the Sleek SA6. Volume setting is no problem.
 The SA6 are not very sensitive for hiss, but there is no hiss with (no input) until the volume is almost at maximum.


----------



## Gradofan2

Does anyone know a vendor in the US, that sells the X-CAN v8, which has a 30 day return policy - other than Music Direct?

 I've got my first one from Music Direct, and returned it, because it had problems. I don't want to try and order another unit there now... because I might get another one with problems - rather try another vendor. No reflection on Music Direct - they're great. Would just prefer to try a whole new source to see if my odds would be better of getting a good unit this time.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know a vendor in the US, that sells the X-CAN v8, which has a 30 day return policy - other than Music Direct?

 I've got my first one from Music Direct, and returned it, because it had problems. I don't want to try and order another unit there now... because I might get another one with problems - rather try another vendor. No reflection on Music Direct - they're great. Would just prefer to try a whole new source to see if my odds would be better of getting a good unit this time._

 

Why don't you give Audio Adviser a call? I purchased my X-Can V3 from them. I don't see it on their website, but it's possible they may have them, or getting them. It's worth a try.

 Glenn


----------



## mrarroyo

Kees, I wish you own a Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 modded by PinkFloyd w/ a Little Pinkie PSU to compare w/ your X-Can V8. I had both a modded V3 and a V2, then I sold the V3 because the V2 get my foot tapping more than the V3. Even though the V3 is a acurate amp.

 Do you know anyone w/ a PinkFloyd modded V2 you could compare w/ the V8?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kees, I wish you own a Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 modded by PinkFloyd w/ a Little Pinkie PSU to compare w/ your X-Can V8. I had both a modded V3 and a V2, then I sold the V3 because the V2 get my foot tapping more than the V3. Even though the V3 is a acurate amp.

 Do you know anyone w/ a PinkFloyd modded V2 you could compare w/ the V8? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No v2s that I know of around here. I never heard one (stock) either.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Kees*
 Getting great results with Xcan v8, decided to use as a line amp vs USB amp with computer, set-up is: *ESound E5 CD player > Xcan v8 > Headphones*.

 Will describe more soon, no way is this going back to Music Direct, am trying many different things out right now headphones, cables, tubes, AC cords etc.

 I now have a USB system run from computer and the seperate Xcan v8 system described above for CDs .......computer area is now sound control central 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Photo 1
Photo 2


----------



## tfarney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Kees*
 Getting great results with Xcan v8, decided to use as a line amp vs USB amp with computer, set-up is: *ESound E5 CD player > Xcan v8 > Headphones*.

 Will describe more soon, no way is this going back to Music Direct, am trying many different things out right now headphones, cables, tubes, AC cords etc.

 I now have a USB system run from computer and the seperate Xcan v8 system described above for CDs .......computer area is now sound control central 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Photo 1
Photo 2_

 

So how is the DAC? Can you hear much difference between lossless (I assume) files through the X-Can's DAC and CDs? 

 Tim


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how is the DAC? Can you hear much difference between lossless (I assume) files through the X-Can's DAC and CDs? 
 Tim_

 

It is difficult to devise a set-up to easily compare just the Dac section of Xcan v8 vs Dac in a CD player or stand alone Dac etc.......but for me I was so impressed using it as line amp straight from CD player that I haven't been using it as USB amp with Dac.


----------



## orkney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how is the DAC? Can you hear much difference between lossless (I assume) files through the X-Can's DAC and CDs? 

 Tim_

 

I'm interested in this also -- wonder how the DAC compares to, say, the Apogee Duet's, since the two units are within shouting distance, price-wise. Does the v8 work with older (round style) x-power supplies?

 best,

 o


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *orkney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm interested in this also -- wonder how the DAC compares to, say, the Apogee Duet's, since the two units are within shouting distance, price-wise. Does the v8 work with older (round style) x-power supplies?

 best,

 o_

 

The X Series v2 use a different PS connector.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Kees*
 Getting great results with Xcan v8, decided to use as a line amp vs USB amp with computer, set-up is: *ESound E5 CD player > Xcan v8 > Headphones*.

 Will describe more soon, no way is this going back to Music Direct, am trying many different things out right now headphones, cables, tubes, AC cords etc.

 I now have a USB system run from computer and the seperate Xcan v8 system described above for CDs .......computer area is now sound control central 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Photo 1
Photo 2_

 

What's the output voltage of the E5 - around 2 volts???

 What's the output impedance?

 Does your v8 play loudly out of your phones at less than 50% of the POT max (< 6 O'clock)???


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Kees*
 Getting great results with Xcan v8, decided to use as a line amp vs USB amp with computer, set-up is: *ESound E5 CD player > Xcan v8 > Headphones*.

 Will describe more soon, no way is this going back to Music Direct, am trying many different things out right now headphones, cables, tubes, AC cords etc.

 I now have a USB system run from computer and the seperate Xcan v8 system described above for CDs .......computer area is now sound control central 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Photo 1
Photo 2_

 

Nice to hear you enjoy it.
 I like to hear more of your impressions.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the output voltage of the E5 - around 2 volts???

 What's the output impedance?

 Does your v8 play loudly out of your phones at less than 50% of the POT max (< 6 O'clock)???_

 

Average rock music with Senn 600 loud at 10 o'clock volume, very loud 11 o'clock, unbearable 12 o'clock
 Esound E5 CD Player output - 2Vrms
 Esound E5 impedance - no measurement in manual

 Just so there is no confusion 12 o'clock is 1/2 volume


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Average rock music with Senn 600 loud at 10 o'clock volume, very loud 11 o'clock, unbearable 12 o'clock
 Esound E5 CD Player output - 2Vrms
 Esound E5 impedance - no measurement in manual

 Just so there is no confusion 12 o'clock is 1/2 volume_

 

Thank you... that tells me all I need to know.

 The v8 has plenty of power to drive Senns, or D5000s, with the typical CDP/DAC with 2 volts output, at very reasonable POT levels... and... the v8 I had must have been defective, because it couldn't do that. 

 I will try another.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Average rock music with Senn 600 loud at 10 o'clock volume, very loud 11 o'clock, unbearable 12 o'clock
 Esound E5 CD Player output - 2Vrms
 Esound E5 impedance - no measurement in manual

 Just so there is no confusion 12 o'clock is 1/2 volume_

 

Yes... I did have my clock time screwed up in my original question.

 But... it looks like you also have the X-PSU v8 powering your X-CAN v8 - correct? 

 I wonder if that makes a difference in its power reserves available drive various phones (either current, or volts output)??? Do you know?

 That is... my v8 just used the standard Walwart that comes with it. Does it reduce the power reserves available to drive headphones, from that available with the X-PSU v8?


----------



## tfarney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes... I did have my clock time screwed up in my original question.

 But... it looks like you also have the X-PSU v8 powering your X-CAN v8 - correct? 

 I wonder if that makes a difference in its power reserves available drive various phones (either current, or volts output)??? Do you know?

 That is... my v8 just used the standard Walwart that comes with it. Does it reduce the power reserves available to drive headphones, from that available with the X-PSU v8?_

 

It shouldn't make that much difference. The difference should be a bit more control in the bass, perhaps a bit faster response resulting in a tiny increase in detail. But nothing like you were experiencing. You got a defective unit. I'd bet the mortgage money on it.

 Tim


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It shouldn't make that much difference. The difference should be a bit more control in the bass, perhaps a bit faster response resulting in a tiny increase in detail. But nothing like you were experiencing. You got a defective unit. I'd bet the mortgage money on it.

 Tim_

 

No doubt... 

 I'll be trying another one.

 I guess the X-PSU just increases the power available to manage transients and to damp the signal - is that right? So, it can clean up and improve the quality of the sound, but not the volume of the output.


----------



## DarkAngel

*GF2*
 I am using X-PSU v8 but just tried the included small plug in power supply included with X-Can v8 and there seems to be little change in over all volume levels, nothing major, just slight cleaning up of the sound with very expensive X-PSU


----------



## Mammut

There is no power on/off on the X-can v8.

 Do you have the power on all the time with your v8's and if so will it affect the lifetime of amplifier in a negative or positive way?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mammut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no power on/off on the X-can v8.

 Do you have the power on all the time with your v8's and if so will it affect the lifetime of amplifier in a negative or positive way?_

 

I don't keep mine on all the time... because... I don't want to shorten the tube life. But... the tubes are pretty inexpensive... if you do. 

 It won't materially shorten the life of the SS components, unless it experiences some power surges from your mains supply.

 If I keep mine... I'll be purchasing the "Little Pinkie" PSU, which has a power switch.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mammut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no power on/off on the X-can v8.

 Do you have the power on all the time with your v8's and if so will it affect the lifetime of amplifier in a negative or positive way?_

 

I have power on all the time (for the v3 I had, my v8, my Prehead and Earmax Pro).
 In my experience it doesn't affect the lifetime an amp.
 As far as I know tubes don't wear out if there is no signal passing, while the heating up and cooling down does affect them.


----------



## Gradofan2

Well.. I finally found an X-CAN v8, which performs up to the mfrs specs, with enough power to drive my phones. Must have just had a "defective" unit with my first one from Music Direct.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/mus...5/#post4268791

 Anyway... through "trial and error" I have hit upon a great set up.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Kees*
 I have had a couple weeks with X-can v8 now and I am thrilled especially with X-PSU v8 (which has an on/off switch). 
 I decided it is too good to use as a USB amp with my computer so I am using it as a line amp with direct connection to ESound E5 CD player:
*ESound E5 CD player > X-Can v8 > Heaphones*
 Cables are Grover Silver Carbon ICs and Zu Bok AC cords.

 The sense of 3D space is excellent, and this design is super quiet especially for a hybrid tube triode design.............at full volume I can hear a pin drop it is so noise free. All my headphone collection are easily powered to full volume listening at 9-11 0'clock volume setting. Everything sounds so liquid and natural with great power, speed and fine detail, combines all the strengths of SS and tube in this hybrid design.

 For tubes (2) I settled on *JAN Sylvania 6922* to replace stock JAN Phillips 6922, gives nice clean extension both high and low and very sweet mids compared to stock, got them here:
6922

 The X-PSU v8 is a very expensive option costing almost as much as the amp itself, not an efficient bang for the buck value but I will be keeping it


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Kees*The X-PSU v8 is a very expensive option costing almost as much as the amp itself, not an efficient bang for the buck value but I will be keeping it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess... unless I were going to buy the other v8 components (DAC, etc.), I'd likely opt for the PF "Little Pinkie," if all I needed was a better PSU for my X-CAN v8 (much less costly, and better quality).


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Kees*
 For tubes (2) I settled on *JAN Sylvania 6922* to replace stock JAN Phillips 6922, gives nice clean extension both high and low and very sweet mids compared to stock, got them here:
6922_

 

Are the JAN Sylvanias really that much better than the JAN Philips (which are pretty great)??? Can they be so much better as to justify they're high cost? Do the still have that great, solid bass, with the pristine highs? 

 Have you tried the Saratov 6H23N-EVs, or the Voskhod 6N1P-EVs - which were superior with the v3 - I would guess they would be with the v8 also???


----------



## DarkAngel

*GF2*
 I didn't think $28 per tube was considered expensive......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have all those other Russian tubes mentioned. You can see from the link I provided that Tube Depot recommends the JAN Sylvania 6922 as nice upgrade from the JAN Phillips 6922, I actually already purchased a back-up pair since I like them so much. You can ask 5 people you get 5 opinions about what tubes sound best....depends on other gear in your system, headphones used, and personal preference

 I also have JJ Tesla gold pin 6922 and Electro Harmonix gold pin 6922, but will stick with Sylvanias............the tubes are a bit of a hassle to change out in v8, so I am not going to be frequent changer.

 Anyone have a link for *Little Pinkie* power supply info?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*GF2*
 I didn't think $28 per tube was considered expensive......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have all those other Russian tubes mentioned. You can see from the link I provided that Tube Depot recommends the JAN Sylvania 6922 as nice upgrade from the JAN Phillips 6922, I actually already purchased a back-up pair since I like them so much. You can ask 5 people you get 5 opinions about what tubes sound best....depends on other gear in your system, headphones used, and personal preference

 I also have JJ Tesla gold pin 6922 and Electro Harmonix gold pin 6922, but will stick with Sylvanias............the tubes are a bit of a hassle to change out in v8, so I am not going to be frequent changer._

 

Well... compared to the JAN Philips they're expensive... not so... compared to the 6H23N-EVs, or the Amperex tubes.


----------



## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know tubes don't wear out if there is no signal passing, while the heating up and cooling down does affect them._

 

Hi Kees, isn't it so that when the tube is 'ON' the cathode and anode are working even when no signal is passing?
 And that implies they are wearing out because the biggest wear of a tube is the cathode burning up.

 So as far as my opinion goes, tubes wear out the moment you switch them on.


----------



## Mammut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have a link for *Little Pinkie* power supply info?_

 

I found this link:
Little Pinkie, PSU for Musical Fidelity X-CAN V3


----------



## Skylab

The JAN Sylvanias are FAR better sounding than any of the new production Russian tubes, IMO, at least in the gear I have used 6922's in.

 Amperex 6DJ8's are much better still, but those DO get very expensive.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Kees, isn't it so that when the tube is 'ON' the cathode and anode are working even when no signal is passing?
 And that implies they are wearing out because the biggest wear of a tube is the cathode burning up.

 So as far as my opinion goes, tubes wear out the moment you switch them on._

 

If I understand the theory correctly the voltage of anode and cathode are in balance when no signal is passing. That means no voltage drop and that means no passing of loaded particles and that means no wearing out.
 I may be wrong, but that is how I understand of the theory of the working of tubes.


----------



## Cankin

Are the stock tubes soldered out the board? any tube sockets on board?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the stock tubes soldered out the board? any tube sockets on board?_

 

I've never opened the v8 up... but... I'm pretty sure it uses sockets, as the v2 and v3 did.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the stock tubes soldered out the board? any tube sockets on board?_

 

X-can v8 does have tube sockets for its two tubes


----------



## Cankin

What is the actual DAC chip inside the V8??

 DarkAngel: How does the DAC section of v8 compare to your DA-151??


----------



## Claus-DK

I have got both the Zero and V8, and Dacwise the Zero really destroys the V8, ampwise it is the other way around....
 Luckily I got both


----------



## Claus-DK

Ohh and for the 2 other danes in this thread, I have made a small review of the v8 on hifi4all.dk.....


----------



## DarkAngel

Very early on I decided that X-can v8 was better as a line amp and do not use the USB Dac section......there is no info in manual about dac chip but earlier in this thread someone identified it.


----------



## Mammut

Hi DarkAngel

 When you bought your JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes, which par did you get?

 eg. The Matched+Balanced Triodes ?


----------



## DarkAngel

Since there are only two tubes I paid a little more for *matched* set, used the vendor Tube Depot shown in the link above for JAN Sylvania 6922, very fast processing and delivery.
Tube Depot

 I also use the latest Herbies Audio vibration rings UltraSonic 9:
Herbies


----------



## ADD

DarkAngel,

 I am just curious as to why the tubes are tricky to change in the V8 version (presumably versus the V3 version).

 Kees,

 Theoretical operation of vacuum tubes notwithstanding, I'm not sure I'd like to keep any tube amplifier turned on all the time - especially ones like the XCan where the tubes are completely internal. I can't imagine the resultant interior temperatures 24 x 7 would be that great for the life of the other components in the amp. Even my Project Tubebox II with it's 12AX7 tubes sticking right out of the housing gets just as hot as the room oil heater after an hour.


----------



## donunus

Gradofan2, are these sounding better than your darkvoice in stock form? I am especially curious how it sounds with the ad2000


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DarkAngel,

 I am just curious as to why the tubes are tricky to change in the V8 version (presumably versus the V3 version)._

 

The tubes in the v8 are slightly easier to change than the v3. (you don't have to unscrew the whole back panel, just the screw that fastenes the RCA terminals).
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kees,

 Theoretical operation of vacuum tubes notwithstanding, I'm not sure I'd like to keep any tube amplifier turned on all the time - especially ones like the XCan where the tubes are completely internal. I can't imagine the resultant interior temperatures 24 x 7 would be that great for the life of the other components in the amp. Even my Project Tubebox II with it's 12AX7 tubes sticking right out of the housing gets just as hot as the room oil heater after an hour._

 

The cooling down and heating up again will most likely do much more damage than keeping everything on a constant temperature.
 When a lamp (any lamp) fails, it will in 99% of the times happen the moment it is switched on.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan2, are these sounding better than your darkvoice in stock form? I am especially curious how it sounds with the ad2000_

 

With Senns... the DV332 may be better - because the impedance is better matched, etc. I would not get the v8 just to drive Senns. In that price range, I'd get the DV332 for Senns.

 With low impedance phones, the v8 seems to sound better - because the impedance is better matched, etc. 

 The AD2000s are fairly low impedance (40+ ohms), as I recall. They sound good with both amps... but... they may sound a bit better with the v8.

 And... of course the D5000s do (sound better with the v8), and the Grados seem to also.


----------



## donunus

ok please report after some more exstensive listening. I'm very interested in these for my ad2k as well as future cans like hd600/k701/ or hd650s


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tubes in the v8 are slightly easier to change than the v3. (you don't have to unscrew the whole back panel, just the screw that fastenes the RCA terminals)._

 

Never owned the v3.......thanks for the tip about only removing the RCA screw on back, before I was removing entire back panel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still a hassle to change out tubes with v8 compared to most other tube headphone amps that have exposed tubes..........


----------



## argentum

Gradofan2 is X - can V8 the best all around amp that you own/have owned or is some unit of your current/previous ones superior ?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argentum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan2 is X - can V8 the best all around amp that you own/have owned or is some unit of your current/previous ones superior ?_

 

Only with low impedance phones (e.g. D5000s, Grados, ATHs, etc.). The X-CANv3 was also pretty good with low impedance phones, and was better with high impedance phones than the v8. 

 The v8 is OK with Senns and high impedance phones, but its a bit underpowered (voltage) with Senns - I have to set the POT to 2-3 O'clock (about 70% of max) to obtain good volume with Senns (I've discussed this extensively in other posts re: the v8). 

 In my limited experience, the DV332 is the best amp with Senns in the <$700 price range - and I suspect the DV337 is the only better amp with Senns in the <$1000 price range. The DV337, reportedly, also drives both high and low impedance phones really well. 

 If I were going to buy an amp (in the <$1000 price range), that reportedly is great with both high and low impedance phones, it would likely be the DV337 - and, I may still buy one - just haven't yet gotten comfortable with the "risk" related to the high cost of shippng back and forth to China.

 My next choice to drive both high and low impedance phones would likely be the SP Extreme, or possibly the WA 6 maxed (close second). 

 Though, I may give the GS-1 a try - just to see how it does with both - I really don't expect it to do really well with both. It reportedly drives Grados well, and I suspect it would "clear up" the Senns, quite a bit.

 However, if I were just going to drive D5000s and other low impedance phones - I'd likely choose the v8, because it sounds great with those, and has adequate power (current) to drive them well. It is a huge value with those phones.


----------



## mrarroyo

^ I am still in shock you are having to go to 2-3 o'clock to get an acceptable level with your Senn cans. I had the V3 and still own the V2 and I rarely go past 9-10 o'clock, and at 10 o'clock I can only stand it for a few minutes.

 The V8 according the Musical Fidelity has more power than the V3 or the V2.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ I am still in shock you are having to go to 2-3 o'clock to get an acceptable level with your Senn cans. I had the V3 and still own the V2 and I rarely go past 9-10 o'clock, and at 10 o'clock I can only stand it for a few minutes.

 The V8 according the Musical Fidelity has more power than the V3 or the V2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's right - see my posts.

 I've had two units, and they both have the same issue with 5 different sources.

 My v3 did not have this issue - it had higher impedance - which is the issue with the v8.


----------



## jpelg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My v3 did not have this issue - it had higher impedance - which is the issue with the v8._

 

I assume you are refering to the output impedance at the headphone jack? 

 What are the respective output impedance specs for the v3 and v8?

 How does a jack's output impedance alter the resulting loudness from the headphones?


----------



## donunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's right - see my posts.

 I've had two units, and they both have the same issue with 5 different sources.

 My v3 did not have this issue - it had higher impedance - which is the issue with the v8._

 

Anyway that was a faulty unit and the new one has plenty of gain right


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpelg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume you are refering to the output impedance at the headphone jack? 

 What are the respective output impedance specs for the v3 and v8?

 How does a jack's output impedance alter the resulting loudness from the headphones?_

 

You can look up the specs as well as I can.

 The v8's output impedance is 1-2 ohms.

 The point is... the output impedance of the v8 matches the low 25 ohm impedance of the D5000s, which makes all the difference in their sound. The amp provides sufficient current to meet the high current requirements of the Denons and Grados, but does not provide sufficient voltage to meet the high voltage requirements of the Senns. Consequently, the amp controls and drives the drivers of the Denons and Grados much more easily than it does the Senns - and therefore, requires lower POT settings for the Denons and Grados, than for the Senns.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway that was a faulty unit and the new one has plenty of gain right_

 

Actually, the replacement unit has a bit more power, but still seems to struggle with the Senns (maybe 2 O'clock, instead of 3 O'clock), and its much quieter (little, or no hiss at full volume with no signal). 

 But... I still wouldn't recommend it with Senns - though I would with low impedance phones.

 I think the reason some don't seem to encounter this issue - is their in 240 volt countries, which must provide improved output voltage with the amp.


----------



## jpelg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can look up the specs as well as I can._

 

Uhh...thanks. Just thought that since you have used both, and are stating technical reasons for their respective performance differences, you might have this more readily. Sorry to put you out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I did look it up:

v8
 Power Output: 1.3 watts into 32ohms
 Output Imped: 2 ohms

v3
 Power Output: 1 watt (no load spec)
 Output Imped: 47 ohms

 Even the v3's output impedance is relatively low, and should not be too detrimental, although admittedly not as ultra low as the v8 spec. Still, since both amps are hybrids (tube input, op-amp output), they both should fair decently with low-impedance cans, compared to straight tube amps.

 The other question is regarding the low volumes you report using Sennheisers. While I don't dispute that you experienced differences, the comparative v8's specs don't support the reasons you state. In fact, the v8 has a higher rated output power (although no load stated for the v3). 

 Other users, both here on Head-Fi, as well as the Stereophile reviewer did not note such issues. Since you had similiar experiences with both of your samples, I'm still trying to understand the "why's".

 Does anyone know what MF did to tweak the new v8 circuit, compared to the v3? How did they lower the output impedance? Are there differences in the output buffers?


----------



## DarkAngel

I have both Senn 650 and Denon 5000 and Xcan v8 has no problem at all playing these headphones with very little adjustment to volume setting.

 Denon 5000 loud at 10 o'clock
 Senn 650 loud at 11 o'clock

 Seems to play both equally well


----------



## Mammut

My Senn 580 is loud at 10-11 o'clock with the v8


----------



## Gradofan2

You guys must be using 240 volt mains, or a source with exceptionally high output power 3.5+ volts, or your using a line stage to boost the signal, or a PC with additional sound card boost settings... or... I must still have a pretty weak unit. I realize "we've covered this ground" earlier.

 Also - you may have indicated previously... but... are you using the X-PSUv8?

 Both of my units were much better out of my line stage - but that shouldn't be required.

 I can't believe I could get two relatively "lower power" units from two different vendors (Music Direct and Audio Advisor), one of which only recently received their units (more recent production) - although the second is better than the first, its still very, very low volume at 10-11 O'clock with Senns.

 Maybe... I'll try "one more time."


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both Senn 650 and Denon 5000 and Xcan v8 has no problem at all playing these headphones with very little adjustment to volume setting.

 Denon 5000 loud at 10 o'clock
 Senn 650 loud at 11 o'clock

 Seems to play both equally well_

 

My CD player has normal output level at 2V, USA power 
 The X-PSU v8 power supply does not effect volume level, just sound quality.

 GF2
 you should try connecting your X-Can v8 directly to CD player with no other processors or EQ devices, and make sure front toggle switch is in "line" position........should have plenty of power


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My CD player has normal output level at 2V, USA power 
 The X-PSU v8 power supply does not effect volume level, just sound quality.

 GF2
 you should try connecting your X-Can v8 directly to CD player with no other processors or EQ devices, and make sure front toggle switch is in "line" position........should have plenty of power_

 

"I've been there... done that" - makes no difference.

 I'm amazed that 2V output is loud at 10-11 O'clock with the Senns. 

 The only difference between my set up and yours is the X-PSUv8... I wonder...


----------



## ADD

What the heck does "loud" mean anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





For me, any popular music louder than 55 dBc is "too loud". and for me, classical music that peaks below 97 dBc (and therefore has an RMS or average below around 72 dBc) is "too soft". I just don't know that in such a technical discussion, the way people are using the term "loud" adds any real meaning and value at all to the discussion.


----------



## Skylab

I think there are some pretty good references for "loud". From Wikipedia:


 Threshold of pain 130 dB
 Hearing damage (due to short-term exposure) 120 dB
 Jet at 100 m 110 – 140 dB
 Jack hammer at 1 m approx. 100 dB
 Hearing damage (due to long-term exposure) approx. 85 dB
 Major road at 10 m 80 – 90 dB
 Passenger car at 10 m 60 – 80 dB
 TV (set at home level) approx. 60 dB
 Normal talking at 1 m 40 – 60 dB
 Very calm room 20 – 30 dB
 Leaves rustling, calm breathing 10 dB
 Auditory threshold at 2 kHz 0 dB


----------



## ADD

Sorry, but that doesn't mean anything at all as far as I am concerned. It's completely and utterly meaningless. I'll find almost all pop music uncomfortably loud if it exceeds 60 dB c but according to that list it is within the range of a normal conversation. But I won't even baulk in the slightest at orchestral music played at a level where it peaks at 104 dB. But a subwoofer 3 houses down the street from me that measures 50 dB c in my loungeroom is _way_ too loud for my comfort. And one headphone might sound loud with one amplifier and another OK with another amplifier even though the measured SPL are exactly the same.

 We need to have a quantifiable means of measuring "loud". For example, with a 1 Khz test tone at 0 dBFS, it measures at "W" dB c weighted on my brand "X" model "Y" full sized headphones when the volume control on my Musical Fidelity Xcan V8 is set to "Z".

 Even with all the vagaries of using a cheaper SPL meter it would still mean much more than "this is loud enough for me". Because that might mean it is too soft or too loud for _me_.


----------



## arteom

Been really enjoying the v8 so far, wanted to comment on the DAC in it. 

 I first used the v8 via the USB input. I do have a zero dac/amp and ended up hooking that up to it as I figured/read that the DAC in the zero should give better results then that DAC in the v8. Going through the Zero definitely did change the sound. Things were a bit more analytical, details improved. But some things suffered; soundstage, warmth, bass. I currently use a Denon AH-D2000 (markl modded) and found that going through the zero (stock opamp) yielded quite a roll-off in the lower sound spectrum. I went back to using the v8's DAC as it had a much more involving sound to it, the Zero was cold and analytical. And I am using a D2000's here, known for being bass heavy/warm in stock form. The Zero also made even the slightest bad recording very much noticeable. I could not enjoy allot of my music with Zero in the system chain, I was listening to pink floyd - wish you were here (FLAC), and it was just so cold and un-involving, and the base was not there. 

 v8's DAC although not as detailed as the Zero, was able to give a much more "rounded" reproduction than the Zero (both stock OP2604 and LT1358, LT1469 opamps). Perhaps different tubes might match it better with the zero. I have a pair of siemens and and a pair of tesla tubes coming, so we shall see.

 The DAC in the v8 is not as bad as the impression that is given here, IMO.


----------



## Gradofan2

I was curious too... regarding... the definintion of "loud" - thinking, perhaps, I listen at higher levels than those reporting they have no issues with there units - especially with Senns.

 Skylab's definitions seem very practical, and relatively easy to apply, without a lot of technology.

 Based on his definitions - I listen at levels in about the 75 to 90 db range, because I want to hear all the details and nuances of Jazz, R&B, Country and Chamber music. I don't listen for extended periods. 

 Those levels are necessary for the HD650s, and sometimes the HD580/600s to flush out their full sound - their highs are often too muted, otherwise. Whereas, Grados, and ATHs often require less volume, and are too loud otherwise.


----------



## Skylab

ADD, maybe you are overthinking this. Basically, if you are listening to music with a low peak-mean ratio, like much pop, you should keep the volume levels on headphones below 80dbA for safe listening. For classical music, which mostly has a high peak-mean ratio, you'd be safe with the 105 db peaks you like as long as the average level stays well under 80db (which it likely would).

 What "seems" loud to you, only you can say. What is OBJECTIVELY loud, meaning that you should be concerned for your hearing, is very well defined. I use an SPL meter to make sure I do not exceed these levels with headphone listening.


----------



## Claus-DK

I can not remember if I posted, that I experience the same things as gradofan2, regarding the loudness on the V8...

 It is really serious if I use the V8 DAC, then I have to go to 12 to get some loudness, with my dt880.....
 I am using 240 volts..


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can not remember if I posted, that I experience the same things as gradofan2, regarding the loudness on the V8...

 It is really serious if I use the V8 DAC, then I have to go to 12 to get some loudness, with my dt880.....
 I am using 240 volts.._

 

Actually... I'd be happy, if I only had to set the POT to 12 O'clock to obtain "loud" volume levels with my Senns, whether with the USB DAC, or the Line out.

 I'm really only unhappy with the volume levels with my Senns - which require the POT to be set at 2-3 O'clock to obtain "loud" volume levels. 

 With all my low impedance phones, the volume is "loud" with settings ranging from 10-12 O'clock, which is acceptable.

 Oh yes... and... I'm guessing "loud" is about 80+ db.


----------



## Claus-DK

If I set my pot to 10, I can use my RS-2 as small speakers...


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually... I'd be happy, if I only had to set the POT to 12 O'clock to obtain "loud" volume levels with my Senns, whether with the USB DAC, or the Line out.

 I'm really only unhappy with the volume levels with my Senns - which require the POT to be set at 2-3 O'clock to obtain "loud" volume levels. 

 With all my low impedance phones, the volume is "loud" with settings ranging from 10-12 O'clock, which is acceptable.

 Oh yes... and... I'm guessing "loud" is about 80+ db._

 

it means the dac doesn't have that much power!
 My modded headphone amp can drive the hd650 with ease...

 It might be that the output level is low, 1volt-1,5 volts to the normal 2volt-4 volts on modern cdplayers?!


----------



## DarkAngel

The Xcan v8 sounds great driving all my headphones but especially the Mark Mod version of Denon 5000......very happy with this combo!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it means the dac doesn't have that much power!
 My modded headphone amp can drive the hd650 with ease...

 It might be that the output level is low, 1volt-1,5 volts to the normal 2volt-4 volts on modern cdplayers?!_

 

Actually... that is not the case.

 "Been there, done that."


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually... that is not the case.

 "Been there, done that."_

 

good for you.


----------



## Random Access

Does anybody have any experience comparing the X-Can V8 with a Heed Canamp?

 Also since there are 2 headphone out jacks I imagine you are in for a torture session if you try to AB 2 sets with different impedance (unless you go crazy with the knob).


----------



## PianoForte

Purchased the X-can V8 from music direct yesterday, using my Sennheiser hd600's. For me, comfortable listening level seems to be at the 1 o'clock point... I'd like to remind everyone here that our ears vary significantly in sensitivity. Also, we all have our own subjective ideas of what is soft, normal, and loud. Plus some styles of music we listen to are naturally louder/softer than others. Perhaps we should come up with a reference tune to at least limit one of the many variables involved in reporting reviews.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PianoForte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Purchased the X-can V8 from music direct yesterday, using my Sennheiser hd600's. For me, comfortable listening level seems to be at the 1 o'clock point... I'd like to remind everyone here that our ears vary significantly in sensitivity. Also, we all have our own subjective ideas of what is soft, normal, and loud. Plus some styles of music we listen to are naturally louder/softer than others. Perhaps we should come up with a reference tune to at least limit one of the many variables involved in reporting reviews._

 

What's the output voltage of your X-RAY? 

 Is it above 3.5 volts - the output voltage of my Cal Audio Alpha?


----------



## peteham

What's the best price on this?


----------



## Gradofan2

If you watch AudioAdvisor.com, and MusicDirect.com... you can frequently find a "demo" unit for around $470, that have a new warranty. They're just units that have been returned in the 30 day return period.

 But... otherwise... I've not found a place to buy them for less than MSRP yet.


----------



## nightmedia

I had my v8 for a couple months now, worked pretty nice, and all of a sudden I have a microphonic effect when I tap on the table. Is it normal that the tubes only last a couple months?

 I am turning the amp on for 8 hours while at work, then I turn it off. I wonder if it would be better to keep it on all the time, specially considering that the box is getting pretty hot...

 Well, since now I have to face the music and go for a set of replacement tubes, what works best for this amp? My choices would be either the JAN Sylvania or the Mullard 12AX7 from TubeDepot. 

 Interesting enough, TubeDepot either match/balance them, or they select them for low noise/microphonics. I would think that match/balancing them might give a better chance to getting a good sound, any suggestions to the contrary?

 Thanks for any feedback!


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightmedia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had my v8 for a couple months now, worked pretty nice, and all of a sudden I have a microphonic effect when I tap on the table. Is it normal that the tubes only last a couple months?

 I am turning the amp on for 8 hours while at work, then I turn it off. I wonder if it would be better to keep it on all the time, specially considering that the box is getting pretty hot...

 Well, since now I have to face the music and go for a set of replacement tubes, what works best for this amp? My choices would be either the JAN Sylvania or the Mullard 12AX7 from TubeDepot. 

 Interesting enough, TubeDepot either match/balance them, or they select them for low noise/microphonics. I would think that match/balancing them might give a better chance to getting a good sound, any suggestions to the contrary?

 Thanks for any feedback!_

 

No, they don't usually go that fast, they typically last practically forever.

 Mine is on all the time.

 You need 6922/ECC88 tubes NOT 12AX7.


----------



## Skylab

JAN-Sylvania 6DJ8's are a good choice on the price/performance curve.


----------



## ansel1969

Has anyone tried the QUALIA010 with the V8? I have a V3 and would get a V8 provided I could get a (noticable) rather than spec related benefit.


----------



## JackeShan

You guys with the X-Can V8. Do you ever turn it off or something? I can't find a turnoff/ stand by button on it. Or do you just simply pull out the power cable?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JackeShan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys with the X-Can V8. Do you ever turn it off or something? I can't find a turnoff/ stand by button on it. Or do you just simply pull out the power cable?_

 

Some do... some don't.

 I turn mine off, when I'm not going to be using it for a day, or so. I either unplug it, or use a separate PSU with a switch, or use a power strip with a switch. 

 But... I doubt, it adds much additional wear to just leave it on. The tubes might have to be replaced a bit earlier - but, their pretty inexpensive, unless you've replaced the stock tubes with some expensive NOS tubes. 

 Though... I would use some kind of surge protection.


----------



## JackeShan

Cool. Thanks for answer!

 By the way.. how is the bass with this amp and your Denon D5000, Gradofan2? Right now i'm using this amp with my Sennheiser HD555 (getting the Denon D5000 next week).. and there are seriously lacking a lot of bass now. Actually there is less bass now compared to when I only used my Asus Xonar D2X sound card.. but the bass is way way more controlled and defined now. But the overall sound is cold/ bright/ hard. It will probably be a whole different story when I get my denon's.. only you could tell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am just worried that I won't have that "bass-punchy-feeling" when I get my Denon's.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JAN-Sylvania 6DJ8's are a good choice on the price/performance curve._

 

Skylab or anyone else who buys their tubes from TubeDepot....do you pay the $4/tube to have them matched AND triodes balanced? I can see where you might pay the $2/tube extra for the matching, but how important is it to have the balanced triodes? Or am I just being cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 & it is worth it to have all of those things done?


----------



## Skylab

I almost never do both. Here is my philosophy:

 > If the dual-triode is serving BOTH channels, get it with balanced triodes

 > If the dual-triode is serving only ONE channel, and there are a pair of them, get the tubes matched, but don't worry about getting balanced triodes

 For example:

 I have a phono preamp that uses a single 12AU7 for the driver and a pair of 6SL7's for gain. In that case, I want the 12AU7 to have balanced triodes, but for the 6SL7's I am more concerned about them being matched than having balanced triodes. To a certain extent, they cannot be truly matched if they don't have relatively balanced triodes, but I think this is of much less importance unless the triodes are horribly out of balance.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JackeShan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool. Thanks for answer!

 By the way.. how is the bass with this amp and your Denon D5000, Gradofan2? Right now i'm using this amp with my Sennheiser HD555 (getting the Denon D5000 next week).. and there are seriously lacking a lot of bass now. Actually there is less bass now compared to when I only used my Asus Xonar D2X sound card.. but the bass is way way more controlled and defined now. But the overall sound is cold/ bright/ hard. It will probably be a whole different story when I get my denon's.. only you could tell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am just worried that I won't have that "bass-punchy-feeling" when I get my Denon's._

 

The v8 is no longer a great amp with Senns, as was the v3 / v2. MF (that's Musical Fidelity to you folks in Harlem) really ruined the X-CAN for Senns with the v8 version (meaning Senns aren't bad with the v8, but are much better with other amps). Well... perhaps "ruined" is a bit strong... but... the v8 doesn't drive Senns as well as the v3 / v2, or DV332 do, by a good margin.

 However... it is GREAT with Denons and low impedance phones.

 You might improve the bass in Senns with some alternative tubes - such as the Voskhod 6N1P-EV/B, or the Saratov 6H23N-EV/B. 

 But... you buy the v8 for low impedance phones - the bass on the Denons will not only be strong, but solid and well defined with the v8.


----------



## JackeShan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The v8 is no longer a great amp with Senns, as was the v3 / v2. MF (that's Musical Fidelity to you folks in Harlem) really ruined the X-CAN for Senns with the v8 version. 

 However... it is GREAT with Denons and low impedance phones.

 You might improve the bass in Senns with some alternative tubes - such as the Voskhod 6N1P-EV/B, or the Saratov 6H23N-EV/B. 

 But... you buy the v8 for low impedance phones - the bass on the Denons will not only be strong, but solid and well defined with the v8._

 

Thanks for your reply. Now I can't wait for my Denons


----------



## Narisha

Me, waiting for D5000 as well


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I almost never do both. Here is my philosophy:

 > If the dual-triode is serving BOTH channels, get it with balanced triodes

 > If the dual-triode is serving only ONE channel, and there are a pair of them, get the tubes matched, but don't worry about getting balanced triodes

 For example:

 I have a phono preamp that uses a single 12AU7 for the driver and a pair of 6SL7's for gain. In that case, I want the 12AU7 to have balanced triodes, but for the 6SL7's I am more concerned about them being matched than having balanced triodes. To a certain extent, they cannot be truly matched if they don't have relatively balanced triodes, but I think this is of much less importance unless the triodes are horribly out of balance._

 


 Thanks, Skylab, for a thorough & straightforward explanation. It definitely clears things up for me.

 I think I'll also be taking your recommendation of the Jan-Sylvania 6DJ8's. Still burning in the stock tubes, but I'll give impressions of the 6DJ8's after they've seen some action.


----------



## arteom

Anyone else care to comment on how this amp drives the Senn HD-650's? I have the amp and am thinking of buying the senns, but don't want to spend the money if it isn't a very good match. Any replies appreciated.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else care to comment on how this amp drives the Senn HD-650's? I have the amp and am thinking of buying the senns, but don't want to spend the money if it isn't a very good match. Any replies appreciated._

 

Perhaps... I should have said... the v8... just isn't as good with Senns as the v3 / v2, or DV332 are. You have to dial the POT up to about 2-3 O'clock (US 115 volt version) to get decent sound out of them - which isn't bad - just not as good as these other amps. 

 I wouldn't let it stop me from buying the "new" version HD650s from B&H Photo, or J&R Electronics, and getting the $50 rebate. You'll not likely get a new pair that cheap again.

 And... who knows... you may get a DV332 one day!


----------



## OmoNemo

As the owner of both DV332 and V8, I would say DV332 more synergy with 650 than V8. 
 IMO V8 give 650 some kind of dull sound and clouded mid, 332 would give 650 more engaging and increasing the sparkle in high area.


----------



## Claus-DK

Gradofan2: Is your volumen still a problem ??
 It seems to me that this amp get louder with burn-in, I seem to turn it more and more down, maybe it is placebo ??

 I would also like to know if I am the only one who are experiencing this ???


----------



## arteom

Actually I'm finding myself turning the volume up more for my Denons, up to 12 o'clock. Recently acquired some AKG 501's for which I've turned the volume up to 3 o'clock, but thats the most and was for classical music, and this headphones are not very sensitive at all. But still, I am a bit surprised at this. I should mention I am running it straight from USB.


----------



## Gradofan2

Yes... the volume with Senns is still an issue.

 The second unit I bought was better, but still requires the POT to be set high for Senns. 

 Haven't noticed whether it seems to develop more power with burn in.

 And... both of mine seemed to drive Denons much better at much lower levels - between 11-12 O'clock.


----------



## Random Access

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan2: Is your volumen still a problem ??
 It seems to me that this amp get louder with burn-in, I seem to turn it more and more down, maybe it is placebo ??

 I would also like to know if I am the only one who are experiencing this ???_

 

But yours run to european spec just like mine. I don't have problems driving any of my phones and going past 12 o'clock is usually too loud.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Random Access* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But yours run to european spec just like mine. I don't have problems driving any of my phones and going past 12 o'clock is usually too loud._

 

No... mine is the US version at 115 volts. 

 The more I research this issue... the more I think the EU version at 220-240 volts, provides greater power reserves to drive both low and high impedance phones. That may explain why you get higher volumes out of Senns at lower POT settings. 

 I don't know whether this is typical - do all EU amps provide greater power reserves, because the run at 240 volts?

 My DV332 is the EU, 240 volt version, and it has huge power reserves - drives all phones to uniformly high volumes at 11 O'clock - very little variance between low and high impedance phones.

 Perhaps, I should buy the EU, 240 volt version, and use a voltage transfomer/converter to match it to the US mains voltage - but it would run at 240 volts, which would then provide greater voltage to my Senns. I bet, it would have enough voltage to power them properly then.


----------



## JackeShan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan2: Is your volumen still a problem ??
 It seems to me that this amp get louder with burn-in, I seem to turn it more and more down, maybe it is placebo ??

 I would also like to know if I am the only one who are experiencing this ???_

 

Same thing for me with Sennheiser (the denon d5000 haven't arrived yet), I used to get loud volume at 12 o'clock but now I'm down to about 11 o'clock if I want it loud with my HD555's


----------



## anadin

I have a UK spec 240volt X-CANv8 and my DAC is a Stello DA100 Signature, output signal level is 2.4 Vrms connected via USB.

 I use Winamp and Kernel Steaming, cans are Denon AH2000's.

 At 12'clock on the volume dial my Denons are absolutely rocking any louder and i'm sure i'd go deaf, 10 o'clock would be normal listening levels for me and even thats loud.

 This is all with the standard wallwart, I have a Little Pinkie v3i PSU on order and have no idea what improvments that'll make.

 Im loving the X-CANv8 and Stello DA100 Signature it makes slamming music and thats using my PC as the source.


----------



## argentum

So anadin you won't send back your X Can ? What happened to Benchmark DAC1 Pre ?


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Random Access* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But yours run to european spec just like mine. I don't have problems driving any of my phones and going past 12 o'clock is usually too loud._

 

I know, I was just trying to help or shed some light on Gradofan2s problems....
 I know that if I use the USB it has to be turned up louder, than with a normal lineout...

 I also do not think that 220 or 110 volts schould make any difference, because it is the same box, just with another transformer or PU if you want AFAIK


----------



## anadin

Im still waiting for the Benchmark DAC1 Pre should get it early next week, its on a 4 week trial basis so if I don't like it thats no sweat.

 I bought two X-CANv8's and kept one the other one was for a friend, he decided after he got it he didn't want it so I offered it in the forum for sale.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a UK spec 240volt X-CANv8 and my DAC is a Stello DA100 Signature, output signal level is 2.4 Vrms connected via USB.

 I use Winamp and Kernel Steaming, cans are Denon AH2000's.

 At 12'clock on the volume dial my Denons are absolutely rocking any louder and i'm sure i'd go deaf, 10 o'clock would be normal listening levels for me and even thats loud.

 This is all with the standard wallwart, I have a Little Pinkie v3i PSU on order and have no idea what improvments that'll make.

 Im loving the X-CANv8 and Stello DA100 Signature it makes slamming music and thats using my PC as the source._

 

I have the same experience with Denons with CDP/DACs as the source and my 110-120 volt US version v8. 

 But... when I use Senns, or the USB DAC of the v8 - it just doesn't have enough power unless the POT is set to 3 to 5 O'clock. 

 So... you don't think its the difference in the mains voltage between the EU and US versions? I was thinking MF may have "just blown it" with the voltage converter/transformer in the US version, which left the v8 without enough voltage to properly drive Senns. I doubt very much, if they would have designed the amp that way intentionally. I've had two of them the second one, was very slightly better than the first - had to be set to perhaps 2 O'clock, rather than 3 O'clock. 

 And... yes... that's with sources with 2.0 to 3.5 volts output.


----------



## anadin

I normally have at least a couple of headphones in the house but at present only have the Denons.

 Im going to borrow a friends Sennheiser HD650 today and ill report back later on how the X-CANv8 handles them compared to my Denon AH2000's.


----------



## krisno

AKG K 701 or Denon AH-D2000 for X-can V8?

 I have got the X-Can v8 and little Pinkie V3i using AKG K 701 hooked up to computer via USB. It sounds all right, but the bass on the AKG's is a bit more pronounced on solid state.

 The AKG's weigh 235grams, and has a single cable(not Y), and they get immense reviews. Now, everyone says Denon 2000 or 5000 match up so nicly on the V8.

 The negative thing about AKG's is that the amp sounds very laid back with these(or maybe its the amp, not the phones).. 

 1: The Denon 2000, more comfortable than AKG K 701 (even though they weigh 100gram more)?? The AKG K headband pains me from time to time

 2: Does the Denon 2000 just have too much bass?

 How in general will a switch for the Denon 2000 be vs the AKG on the v8. Should I do it? (even though the denon 2000 seems to be a cheaper headphone).... 

 Does the leather on the denon heat up your ears?

 THANKS GUYS!!

 K


----------



## PianoForte

My feeling is that DAC was only incorporated to help its appeal to the non-esoteric listeners out there, e.g. non-audiophiles who might be interested in getting involved. The DAC is nothing special from my listening/understanding, however I did listen to the amp and it sounded excellent. The DAC is a welcome extra, however just consider it a way to link your amp and pc together with a little upgrade from a PC's DAC. If the DAC is really something special, MF would be advertising that a lot more.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krisno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AKG K 701 or Denon AH-D2000 for X-can V8?

 I have got the X-Can v8 and little Pinkie V3i using AKG K 701 hooked up to computer via USB. It sounds all right, but the bass on the AKG's is a bit more pronounced on solid state.

 The AKG's weigh 235grams, and has a single cable(not Y), and they get immense reviews. Now, everyone says Denon 2000 or 5000 match up so nicly on the V8.

 The negative thing about AKG's is that the amp sounds very laid back with these(or maybe its the amp, not the phones).. 

 1: The Denon 2000, more comfortable than AKG K 701 (even though they weigh 100gram more)?? The AKG K headband pains me from time to time

 2: Does the Denon 2000 just have too much bass?

 How in general will a switch for the Denon 2000 be vs the AKG on the v8. Should I do it? (even though the denon 2000 seems to be a cheaper headphone).... 

 Does the leather on the denon heat up your ears?

 THANKS GUYS!!

 K_

 

The Denons are very comfortable - fairly light, and they do not clamp too tightly. The pads do get slightly warm on hot summer days, but not unbearable - though they may not be as cool as velour.

 The Denons mate with the X-CANv8 better than all my other phones (don't have the AKGs). But... I would expect it to be better than the AKGs - just their inherent sound, as well as how they mate with the X-CANv8.

 Once burnt in... the bass of the Denons is not too boomy, and is fairly tight and controlled - though, its still fairly prominent and robust, about like Senns. 

 However, my observations are with a good source, not the X-CANv8 DAC. The DAC is very weak - it doesn't compare in any way to a good CDP/DAC (e.g. see my signature). Its possible your AKGs are being limited, very much, by the DAC - though, they still may not sound as good as the Denons with the X-CANv8.


----------



## DarkAngel

Stereophile 9/2008

 Has long review of MF Xcan v8 and Xpsu v8 (and Ray Samuels Predator)


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stereophile 9/2008

 Has long review of MF Xcan v8 and Xpsu v8 (and Ray Samuels Predator)_

 

So what does it say... or... is it accessible online?


----------



## DarkAngel

Sam Tellig did review, his set-up

 Cary CDP > Xcan v8 > AKG K701

 He used stock tubes and mentions that changing tubes/opening case will void warranty

*Extremely positive review, brief summary:*
 -Xcan v8 much better than v3
 -stock v8 best under 1K amp he has heard, with Xpsu v8 even better
 -"extraordinary resolution, mids & highs exquisite"
 -"bass has great depth, fullness and authority"

 Just got my copy today in mail, too soon for online viewing, check out full review at local magazine section.


----------



## synthmad

I read that Stereophile article a few days ago, and thought it said the new X-CAN V8 could not be used with the X-PSU V3. Is that really the case? I was hoping to maybe get an X-CAN V8 and use with my current X-PSU V3.

 Are all you "Little Pinkie" PSU guys able to use the same supply with X-CAN V3 and V8?


----------



## DarkAngel

That didn't take long..........

*Music Direct *already quoteing the Stereophile review for Xcan v8 sales page:
MD


----------



## krisno

Darkangel

 I see you comment on the stereophile review. Well, it's all lies from those guys. I got the V8.

 Now that you gotten yours for a while, I asked you before, but the Sylvania tube upgrade, even when using built in DAC(analog out on cheap computer even has lower and higher end extentions), do you hear any better sound?

 secondly, most importantly, which headphone you use with the x-can v8? I got AKG K 701, and they have alot of bass even on analog out from computer, but less on the V8(thats tubes for ya!). People say Denon 2000/5000 is soo good and best with V8, you believe it makes much difference on overall SQ, if you don't mind the bass? I just can't.. but I wonder what you use, find any difference?

 thanks!.... still got your v8 I guess?

 Wonder how it would sound with a better source, but I don't think I will bother... the tubes remove details and color the sound so much that a further dac upgrade might not be that much value. I did not hear that much difference when using the x-can v3 with analog out on PC vs using the MF X-DAC v3 which was a $1000 dac!!

 Comment those who want, not only Darkangel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Kris


----------



## Gradofan2

Well... with the D5000s and a good matching source (see my signature) the Stereophile review is quite accurate.

 However... the USB DAC is very weak - not to be used.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *synthmad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read that Stereophile article a few days ago, and thought it said the new X-CAN V8 could not be used with the X-PSU V3. Is that really the case? I was hoping to maybe get an X-CAN V8 and use with my current X-PSU V3.

 Are all you "Little Pinkie" PSU guys able to use the same supply with X-CAN V3 and V8?_

 

PSU for v3 and v8 are identical.
 I use the Little Pinkie I used with my v3 with my v8. Works perfectly.


----------



## synthmad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PSU for v3 and v8 are identical.
 I use the Little Pinkie I used with my v3 with my v8. Works perfectly._

 

Thanks for letting me know that, Kees.


----------



## krisno

gradofan

 Stereophile review the amp using the same equipment as me, V8 + PSU + K701, and that is how they rate it.

 The DAC in the amp has more bass than my headphones plugged into the analog out on my laptop, but still the analog output has alot more bass. It is solid state driven... so the problem in general is the tube circuit, killing of high and low end tones. It won't be solved with a DAC upgrade.

 Thats main reason I can't justify a expensive DAC for using with tubes. It's no point, it makes everything sound lush and nice with a little lack of bass. Of course it will be a bit better, but not much. on a SS amp source is the first component to upgrade, way before you upgrade amp.

 I base these thoughts on the fact that I had the X-can v3, x-psu + K701, and I did not hear that much difference between the V3 connected to my CHEAP laptop, or to the MF X-dac v3. The V3 was better, but still it was shy on bass. Though clarity and bass a little bit better I still thought the improvements were small.... and thats tubes for ya.

 I will have a look at the new PS Audio state of the art DAC which comes with a state of the art headphone amp. Due out next year.

 K


----------



## Gradofan2

All I can tell ya... is with a good source (not a PC), and the D5000s - there are few amps that are better than the v8 - it has GREAT BASS (BOOM)!

 "Been there done that."


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krisno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC in the amp has more bass than my headphones plugged into the analog out on my laptop, but still the analog output has alot more bass._

 

Is it just me or does this statement defy all logic? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just got some used K701's they are ALO recabled 22awg. There is no lack of bass whatsoever, its very much present and it goes deep. The bass is better than my D2000's. The K701 is also very good at soundstage and I'm yet to feel that the soundstage is too distant or inappropriately represented. I am using the v8's DAC btw.


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it just me or does this statement defy all logic? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yoy are completely right


----------



## krisno

Artom

 Sorry for lazy written language.

 What I mean was this....

 I am sure that the DAC implentation in the X-can V8 is BETTER! than the DAC implementation on my HP laptop. Still, when I connect my AKG K 701 directly into the laptop 3.5 mm analog out(solid state amplification?), the bass is much more powerfull, even without any amplification in between.

 Therefore, I derive the conclusion that it is the tube part of the X-can v8 which limits the bass vs solid state. No matter what kinda DAC I get for the V8, the bass will be lacking compared to even the cheapest solid state. 

 and this is correct i guess, no brainer..

 Anyways.... artom. You use the V8 dac, and AKG K 701.. nice... you like the AKG better than Denon's? The first must be better than latter, AKG has made headphones for years. Denon not for long.

 But ARTOM.... have you done a tube swap?? Did the recabling help on the AKG K 701? I really don't want to recable as when using the AKG's on solid state, bass is immense enough.. secondly, the cable on the 701's is soo soft and nice, bends nicely and is lightweight..... it's perfect!

 So you recommend AKG for v8, not denon?

 THANKS!!


----------



## anadin

One piece of advice.

 Do not buy the X-canV8 for its DAC.


----------



## arteom

krisno,

 I did swap out the tubes on it but I don't think that it really did too much with the bass, maybe a bit smoother but it did not add quantity to it. As far the re-cable goes I cannot comment as I have not heard a stock K701. The k701 and Denon are completely different animals, one is more fun (Denon) the other is a true reference can, with no (or very little) colorations and a flat but powerful when needed sound signature. At the moment I am enjoying the k701's more as they are more detailed and present everything there is in the music in a much more neutral way than the Denons. But again its a case of fun vs. neutral.


----------



## Beagle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps... I should have said... the v8... just isn't as good with Senns as the v3 / v2, or DV332 are. You have to dial the POT up to about 2-3 O'clock (US 115 volt version) to get decent sound out of them_

 









 The _RA-1_ can get a decent level with the Senns at 9 o'clock!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beagle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_








 The RA-1 can get a decent level with the Senns at 9 o'clock!_

 

"With all due respect, Senator... 'you're on drugs' "... the DC version of the RA-1 can drive Grados - but must be dialed to 5 O'clock to produce even a low sound out of the Senns (HD580/600s and HD650s). It provides lots of current to drive Grados, but not enough voltage to drive Senns.

 If you want to drive Senns with the RA-1 you must get the AC Hi-Gain version - and even then it struggles.

 You're really "just striking a match in dry timber" aren't you?


----------



## Beagle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"With all due respect, Senator... 'you're on drugs' "... the DC version of the RA-1 can drive Grados - but must be dialed to 5 O'clock to produce even a low sound out of the Senns (HD580/600s and HD650s). It provides lots of current to drive Grados, but not enough voltage to drive Senns.

 If you want to drive Senns with the RA-1 you must get the AC Hi-Gain version - and even then it struggles.

 You're really "just striking a match in dry timber" aren't you?_

 

Uh....no. 

 I used to use the 650 with the RA-1. Unless you like to blast your ears out with volume, it did provide sufficient level for comfortable music listening. Obviously not the best choice of amp (I mostly used a PPA or Rega Ear) but it does work. Again, based on the assumption that one is not suffering from hearing loss, although I am sure a lot of folks fit into that category..


----------



## FallenAngel

RA-1 definitely has enough gain to drive anything VERY loud, I just wouldn't recommend the amp.

 The gain of an amp (i.e. how loud it can make headphones sound) really has nothing to do with quality of output, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RA-1 definitely has enough gain to drive anything VERY loud, I just wouldn't recommend the amp.

 The gain of an amp (i.e. how loud it can make headphones sound) really has nothing to do with quality of output, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!_

 

You simply don't have any idea what you're talking about... "with all due respect." Although, after such an ignorant and uninformed statement... I'm not sure any respect is warranted. 

 I've had the amp with several Senns - it can't drive them - PERIOD! And John Grado has confirmed that to me, as well!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The gain of an amp (i.e. how loud it can make headphones sound) really has nothing to do with quality of output, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!_

 

I actually agree 100% with this statement. I am not here saying anything about the RA-1 or the X-Can 8, as I have heard neither. But I totally agree that the gain of an amp is not what matters - it is the quality of the amplification. I have had at least 100 portable and headphone amps in my home over the last 3 years, and there is not a single one of them that I used at even close to it's maximum gain. The closest I ever came was the Meier Opera with my 600 ohm Beyers - I had to switch it to high-gain mode and then I needed the volume at about 60% full. But most of my amps with most of my headphones never require even 40% full volume.


----------



## Beagle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You simply don't have any idea what you're talking about... "with all due respect." Although, after such an ignorant and uninformed statement... I'm not sure any respect is warranted._

 

Well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black! What exactly is "ignorant and uninformed" about his comment? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had the amp with several Senns - it can't drive them - PERIOD! And John Grado has confirmed that to me, as well!_

 

"With all due respect", perhaps you are hard of hearing? Lots of people have had much success using the RA-1 with Senns and lots of other 'phones as well. John sells a high-gain version. What would you expect him to say?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually agree 100% with this statement. I am not here saying anything about the RA-1 or the X-Can 8, as I have heard neither. But I totally agree that the gain of an amp is not what matters - it is the quality of the amplification. I have had at least 100 portable and headphone amps in my home over the last 3 years, and there is not a single one of them that I used at even close to it's maximum gain. The closest I ever came was the Meier Opera with my 600 ohm Beyers - I had to switch it to high-gain mode and then I needed the volume at about 60% full. But most of my amps with most of my headphones never require even 40% full volume._

 

And... my experience has been just the opposite - especially with the RA-1. 

 If you have no gain... you have no quality... especially with Senns.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And... my experience has been just the opposite - especially with the RA-1. 

 If you have no gain... you have no quality... especially with Senns._

 

I'm not saying that you do not need the appropriate amount of gain. What I am saying is that gain, in and of itself, means nothing in terms of quality. The gain still has to be GOOD for it to be useful. Especially for good headphones like Senns. Yes, you need enough gain. But JUST gain for gain's sake has no bearing on whether an amp will sound good.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not saying that you do not need the appropriate amount of gain. What I am saying is that gain, in and of itself, means nothing in terms of quality. The gain still has to be GOOD for it to be useful. Especially for good headphones like Senns. Yes, you need enough gain. But JUST gain for gain's sake has no bearing on whether an amp will sound good._

 

I wouldn't know... except that the DC RA-1 can not drive Senns, not even close - not enough voltage to do so - and no volume and no SQ. It's fine with... Grados, because its got the current to drive them. 

 I should qualify that - to the DC RA-1 of about 4-5 years ago. If Grado has upgraded it since then... who knows. But, I'm sure I would have heard about it.

 All my other amps have had reasonable gain, voltage, and current to drive whatever phones I've used.

 I want to make sure no one buys a DC RA-1 expecting it to drive Senns - they'll be very disappointed.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't know... except that the DC RA-1 can not drive Senns, not even close - not enough voltage to do so - and no volume and no SQ. It's fine with... Grados, because its got the current to drive them. 

 ._

 

I certainly find that very believable, but have no direct experience. I do know my brother had a DC RA-1, and when I gave him the much cheaper but AC powered Travagan's Red for his BDay, he told me it sounded much better with his Beyer DT770/250's. But the Red is actually a very nice little amp


----------



## Bigmouth

Can I get a bit more detailed review of the DAC please? Does it support 24 bits/96 khz? I'm planning to buy this and use the DAC until I have a bit more money to spend on something else. Is the only way to get a better sound from the computer to buy a new DAC then? How about using the line out of a quite good sound card? 

 Thank you in advance!


----------



## Gradofan2

I tried the v8's USB DAC out of my laptop with the stock sound card / software. 

 I was "unimpressed," to say the least. I wouldn't buy the v8 for its DAC - only for its amp with low impedance phones.


----------



## Bigmouth

Oh, okay. That's bad actually. 

 Would it be better to connect it to the line-out on a cheap sound card (Sound Blaster Audigy)? What other possibilities are there to connect it to the computer?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigmouth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, okay. That's bad actually. 

 Would it be better to connect it to the line-out on a cheap sound card (Sound Blaster Audigy)? What other possibilities are there to connect it to the computer?_

 

Very possibly... I didn't try that. I just used the USB cable, which may have been a limiting factor. 

 Perhaps some others have tried that. Though, I think the universal opinion... is the DAC is weak. I just don't know whether those opinions were with a USB, or RCA connection.


----------



## arteom

My views of the DAC differ from Gradofans. It is acceptable to say the least. Before I had the v8 I used a Zero DAC/Amp for my headphones. After I got the v8 I determined that the DAC in the Zero really limited my experience with the v8, the sound was unrefined, and soundstage was narrow, also it did not reproduce the deeper low frequencies. The DAC in the v8 matches well with the rest of the unit, better/more-practical than any of the lower end external unit on the market (I would speculate). I did a small writeup some pages back comparing the Zero DAC and the integrated DAC. But all said, I do plan on getting a mid-level DAC to use with the v8 soon.

 Btw, its 16 bit/48khz.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the v8's USB DAC out of my laptop with the stock sound card / software.._

 

Maybe I misunderstand (that's been known to happen, once or twice...or a few thousand times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but if you are connecting to a USB port, the stock sound card has nothing to do with it; it's completely bypassed. When you connect via USB, you take a pure digital stream and feed it to the external DAC, which replaces the sound card. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DrBenway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I misunderstand (that's been known to happen, once or twice...or a few thousand times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but if you are connecting to a USB port, the stock sound card has nothing to do with it; it's completely bypassed. When you connect via USB, you take a pure digital stream and feed it to the external DAC, which replaces the sound card. Am I missing something here?_

 

That may be... I have only tried it using the DAC of the v8... which is not very good. If the sound card provides the digital to analog conversion... then you wouldn't be using the DAC of the v8... so it wouldn't be relevant.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That may be... I have only tried it using the DAC of the v8... which is not very good. If the sound card provides the digital to analog conversion... then you wouldn't be using the DAC of the v8... so it wouldn't be relevant._

 

Exactly. But if it's just a stock sound card, it (with some exceptions) probably isn't very good. The DAC, at least in theory, shouldn't be anywhere as good as the one in the V8. But, depending on whether the V8 DAC is any good, it is possible that a stock sound card could sound better. I'd be pretty shocked by that, but stranger things have happened.


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My views of the DAC differ from Gradofans. It is acceptable to say the least. Before I had the v8 I used a Zero DAC/Amp for my headphones. After I got the v8 I determined that the DAC in the Zero really limited my experience with the v8, the sound was unrefined, and soundstage was narrow, also it did not reproduce the deeper low frequencies. The DAC in the v8 matches well with the rest of the unit, better/more-practical than any of the lower end external unit on the market (I would speculate). I did a small writeup some pages back comparing the Zero DAC and the integrated DAC. But all said, I do plan on getting a mid-level DAC to use with the v8 soon.

 Btw, its 16 bit/48khz._

 

I agree with Gradofan and I am very happy with the zero-->V8 combo....

 It is quite funny because I normally agree with Arteom and his taste just not in this case..


----------



## Bigmouth

It seems like I'm buying this one after all. 

 I live in Sweden. Where is the best place to buy it? I can't buy it from US, right? Where else would it be cheap to buy it?

 Thank you for your help everyone!

 EDIT: I Probably should ask one more question after all. I'm going to buy a pair of Denon AH-D2000. How big will the difference be if I'm using this amp with the DAC, or not using any amp at all? From a PC with a quite cheap sound card.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DrBenway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly. But if it's just a stock sound card, it (with some exceptions) probably isn't very good. The DAC, at least in theory, shouldn't be anywhere as good as the one in the V8. But, depending on whether the V8 DAC is any good, it is possible that a stock sound card could sound better. I'd be pretty shocked by that, but stranger things have happened._

 

My comments are re: the internal v8 DAC compared to my external DACs.

 There is no comparison - my external DACs are vastly better.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My comments are re: the internal v8 DAC compared to my external DACs.

 There is no comparison - my external DACs are vastly better._

 

I had the impression from your post that you were using the sound card without an external DAC.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DrBenway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the impression from your post that you were using the sound card without an external DAC._

 

No... just used the laptop drive as the CD drive, connected to the DAC via a USB cable.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No... just used the laptop drive as the CD drive, connected to the DAC via a USB cable._

 

Oh. That makes complete sense. Sorry!


----------



## shasty

i just got this amp and am listening to it with my w5000. it is a good amp, and i really like it. i am using the internal dac, and have no plans to upgrade. 

 honestly, the upgrade from sansa clip to this amp was not worth $500, but i have money to blow so whatever.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shasty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got this amp and am listening to it with my w5000. it is a good amp, and i really like it. i am using the internal dac, and have no plans to upgrade. 

 honestly, the upgrade from sansa clip to this amp was not worth $500, but i have money to blow so whatever._

 

The benefits of the v8 are only realized with very low impedance phones - it totally transforms the D2000/D5000s, and is great with Grados as well. Not so great with higher impedance phones.


----------



## Bigmouth

No one noticed my last post, so I'm posting it again!

 It seems like I'm buying this one after all.

 I live in Sweden. Where is the best place to buy it? I can't buy it from US, right? Where else would it be cheap to buy it?

 Thank you for your help everyone!

 EDIT: I Probably should ask one more question after all. I'm going to buy a pair of Denon AH-D2000. How big will the difference be if I'm using this amp with the DAC, or not using any amp at all? From a PC with a quite cheap sound card.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The benefits of the v8 are only realized with very low impedance phones - it totally transforms the D2000/D5000s, and is great with Grados as well. Not so great with higher impedance phones._

 

I actually sold my Denon D5000 and only use Senn 650 & 600 with Xcan v8, each person has thier own taste/opinion.......

 My Senns have upgraded cables and foam pads replaced with sheer cloths


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigmouth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one noticed my last post, so I'm posting it again!

 It seems like I'm buying this one after all.

 I live in Sweden. Where is the best place to buy it? I can't buy it from US, right? Where else would it be cheap to buy it?

 Thank you for your help everyone!

 EDIT: I Probably should ask one more question after all. I'm going to buy a pair of Denon AH-D2000. How big will the difference be if I'm using this amp with the DAC, or not using any amp at all? From a PC with a quite cheap sound card._

 

I can not help you with a cheap place to buy the xcan, but maybe a german reseller.....

 I would get the phones first and see if the laptop is satisfying for you, if it is you do not need an amp..

 I bougth mine at "tapeconnection" in Denmark for about 800$, a cheaper alternative is a Zero that also is a nice amp, allthough not in the same leage as the V8


----------



## argentum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigmouth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one noticed my last post, so I'm posting it again!

 It seems like I'm buying this one after all.

 I live in Sweden. Where is the best place to buy it? I can't buy it from US, right? Where else would it be cheap to buy it?

 Thank you for your help everyone!

 EDIT: I Probably should ask one more question after all. I'm going to buy a pair of Denon AH-D2000. How big will the difference be if I'm using this amp with the DAC, or not using any amp at all? From a PC with a quite cheap sound card._

 

Google is your friend lazy svensson  - Reference audio - hemmabio projektorer dvd hifi

Musical Fidelity XCanV8 - HiFi och Hemmabio i Stockholm - Ljudmakarn


----------



## shasty

w5000 has lower impedance than d2000


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shasty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_w5000 has lower impedance than d2000_

 

Actually they don't.

 The impedance of the W5000 is 40 ohms... and... the impedance of the D2000/D5000s is 25 ohms. The ATHs don't seem to be as hard to drive as Denons for sure... or Grados - possibly because they're more sensitive and efficient.


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually sold my Denon D5000 and only use Senn 650 & 600 with Xcan v8, each person has thier own taste/opinion.......

 My Senns have upgraded cables and foam pads replaced with sheer cloths_

 

I sold my Denon's as well (markled D2000) and currently enjoying the X-Can with a ALO K701. Also got a Beyer DT-880 (600ohm) which the x-can can (hah) drive but at ~1-3 o'clock on the volume, using the internal DAC.


----------



## fdhfdy

how much is it ?


----------



## shasty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually they don't.

 The impedance of the W5000 is 40 ohms... and... the impedance of the D2000/D5000s is 25 ohms. The ATHs don't seem to be as hard to drive as Denons for sure... or Grados - possibly because they're more sensitive and efficient._

 

now i'm really confused! 

 w5000 has 40 ohms, and 103 db/mw

 d2000 has 25 ohms, and 106 db/mw

 the w5000 is definitely much louder than the d2000 at a given volume setting, and i agree that the xcan really helps the denons out, but i think it has less to do with impedance and more to do with the tubes warming up the cold analytical sound of the denons


----------



## QQQ

shasty, don't believe "listed" sensivity, you don't know how that figure was achieved.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shasty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_now i'm really confused! 

 w5000 has 40 ohms, and 103 db/mw

 d2000 has 25 ohms, and 106 db/mw

 the w5000 is definitely much louder than the d2000 at a given volume setting, and i agree that the xcan really helps the denons out, but i think it has less to do with impedance and more to do with the tubes warming up the cold analytical sound of the denons_

 

Actually... if you listen to the Denons with other amps, with higher output impedance, and less current output than the v8 (more typical of OTL tube amps)... you'll hear a big difference - they're not as clean and clear sounding, and the bass gets bloated, boomy and wooly.


----------



## Kasper

A question for those of you that actually like this amp!
 how long time does it need to warm up?

 I heard the v3 on two occasions: first time it had been on all day and i loved it, the second it had been on for only ten minutes and it made me want to tear my headphones off right away!

 I don´t know about the v8, but the fact that it stil dosn´t have an on/off knob seems to indicate they want it to be turned on at all times - Just don´t fit with the CO2 issue so much debated these days. 

 So therefore the question: how long time does it need to warm up to sound pleasent?


----------



## DefectiveAudioComponent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don´t know about the v8, but the fact that it stil dosn´t have an on/off knob seems to indicate they want it to be turned on at all times - Just don´t fit with the CO2 issue so much debated these days._

 

The CO2 issue? Aren't the v8 just like the v3 a one-watt design... but all right, waste is waste...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question for those of you that actually like this amp!
 how long time does it need to warm up?

 I heard the v3 on two occasions: first time it had been on all day and i loved it, the second it had been on for only ten minutes and it made me want to tear my headphones off right away!

 I don´t know about the v8, but the fact that it stil dosn´t have an on/off knob seems to indicate they want it to be turned on at all times - Just don´t fit with the CO2 issue so much debated these days. 

 So therefore the question: how long time does it need to warm up to sound pleasent?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Keeps it warmed up and ready to go... 

 Though, I suggest you turn it off when you're not going to be listening to it for a while - to save the tubes, and to limit the opportunity for some type of power surge to hit it and damage it. Perhaps leave it on over the weekend, or a few days, when you're likely to use it.

 And the v8 has 30%+ more power output (1.3 watt) than the v3 (about 1 watt).

 And... I agree... with the prior question - "what CO2 issue." You surely haven't beem duped by that "global warming BS," for which there is absolutely no supporting evidentiary data... "zip, zero, nada" - in fact, all the evidentiary data, suggests just the opposite - "global cooling" of 1 degree C over the next 100 years. Better stock up on some firewood, and thick "fur coats" - I suggest "Polar Bear" fur, from the over-population of polar bears!


----------



## Bigmouth

Haha, I liked your last post Gradofan2, although I'm not agree. It's not all about the warming, we need to save energy either way.

 Back on topic! I really, really want one of these (those..?)! My Denon AH-D2000 are on the way, and everyone says they will match them very well. But how well will they match a future upgrade?


----------



## Kasper

Ok so if i buy it I will keep it on all the time! Of course you are right it is not a big Watt'er. 
 But just a minor coment: 1,3 watt are the output power, it sayes nothing about the amps power consumption.
 And - The idea of a global cooling is pretty outdated by now!


----------



## jernmo

Ok, I have a question for all of you (even Gradofan2). I am currently running my HD650's out of my D2 Boa. It has plenty of power and sounds really good (compared with a Headroom Supreme I notice little to no difference). I was looking at the X-Can V8 because I mostly listen to audio from my Laptop. I gather that the AMP in the Xcan is better than my D2 Boa, but the DAC might not be. I plan on getting a standalone DAC in the near future. But until then do you think I would see any benefit of getting the V8, or should I wait until after I have the DAC in hand?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok so if i buy it I will keep it on all the time! Of course you are right it is not a big Watt'er. 
 But just a minor coment: 1,3 watt are the output power, it sayes nothing about the amps power consumption.
 And - The idea of a global cooling is pretty outdated by now!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wouldn't buy the v8 for its DAC... only its amp... and then... primarily for low impedance phones, like the Denons and Grados. With high impedance phones its no better than many other amps, and the DV332 / DV337 is better with Senns. 

 However... if you plan to drive low impedance phones with the v8, than you might be able to "tollerate" the DAC for a period of time. Ultimately, though you will want a much, much better DAC.

 As far as the other "BS"... I can only say... I really am not interested in anyone's "opinion," nor would I ask anyone to accept my "opinion" - I only accept documented, proven facts.... of which I can provide you literally "reems" of scientific data, of actual observations, not unfounded and disproven theories and models. I can assure you (and challenge you) that you can not find one documented fact supporting the now disproven "global warming theory" (which is all it ever was). And as far as the most recent "global cooling" theory (it was only by presented by scientists about a month ago)... at least its supported by 10 years of global cooling (every year since 1998), and the most recent science. As far as "building damns" - I'd save my money - the most recent satellite photos of the polar ice caps, show they've increased since last year, and never really decreased in the Southern Hemisphere. Why do you think the news has been totally silenced on the "global warming theory." There is none. And, with regard to conservation, that's fine, we all need to save money on energy consumption. But... the only real limits on energy consumption, are those, which have been "idiotically" self-imposed, by our ignorant failure to develop our vast energy reserves, which are proven to be among the World's largest (as well as our prohibition on nuclear power). These are all well documented, current facts... not opinion. You just have to search for them, because the biased media are not reporting them. But... by all means... you're welcome to your own "opinion"... just not your own facts.


----------



## Kasper

we have better cool this debate before we increase the warming!

 Like I said: if i buy this amp I will keep it turned on so lets go back to the headphones!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anybody who can compare the v8 with the heed canamp?


----------



## LHH

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_


 As far as the other "BS"... I can only say... I really am not interested in anyone's "opinion," nor would I ask anyone to accept my "opinion" - I only accept documented, proven facts.... of which I can provide you literally "reems" of scientific data, of actual observations, not unfounded and disproven theories and models._

 

Yes, I'd like to see that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I can assure you (and challenge you) that you can not find one documented fact supporting the now disproven "global warming theory" (which is all it ever was). 
 

Disproved, really? You should tell NASA, The US Geological Survey, The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change...etc. I'm sure they'd like to know that they have it all wrong. As for documented facts, try any of the above. The IPCC is a good place to start though, their latest report having involved over 2500 of the world's top researchers from 130 countries.

 As for global warming being a theory, of course it's a theory. *All *of science is a theory. That's how _inductive_ methodology works. You want certainty, try _deductive_ method, you'll find you won't get very far though.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 And as far as the most recent "global cooling" theory (it was only by presented by scientists about a month ago)... at least its supported by 10 years of global cooling (every year since 1998), and the most recent science. 
 

A whole ten years, remarkable, this was which restricted area exactly? [/irony off].
 So, who conducted this study? And how was their research funded? Which high profile peer reviewed journal did this study appear in? Have their results been checked and confirmed by other studies? Do the results accord with previous studies? How long did the study last? How large was the data pool? and how was the data analysed? What is the statistical significance of this study?

  Quote:


 As far as "building damns" - I'd save my money - the most recent satellite photos of the polar ice caps, show they've increased since last year 
 

Yes, there's a little more ice than last year (worst on record *ever*). So, this year it's only what, about 30% less ice than when satellite data started being taken in the 70s. 

  Quote:


 and never really decreased in the Southern Hemisphere. 
 

Quite true...ah...you do know about the unprecedented breaking up of the ice though right? And are aware of the distribution of Earth's landmasses, and the effects this has on the absorption of energy, and heating. (clue: walk on beach sand in summer, walk into the ocean, compare temperatures, find out about _specific heat_).

  Quote:


 And, with regard to conservation, that's fine, we all need to save money on energy consumption. But... the only real limits on energy consumption, are those, which have been *"idiotically" self-imposed*, by our ignorant failure to develop our vast energy reserves, which are proven to be among the World's largest 
 

I guess you're not talking about renewable resources here...so I think you'll find there are limits. You may want to google "hubbert's peak". Now think back to the 1970s... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Have a lovely day, and happy listening.


----------



## LHH

Oops sorry...headphones...


----------



## DefectiveAudioComponent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LHH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oops sorry...headphones... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes. whatever is happening with the climate, I'm sure that the xcan has very little to do with it.


----------



## Bigmouth

DefectiveAudioComponent is definitely right! 

 Now I'm going to hijack this thread for a little while longer. I'm probably going to buy this. I'm going to use the built-in DAC to start with. 

*Please answer this:*
 Do you think that's waste of money and equipment? How big are improvement over the output from an ordinary, quite cheap sound card? Isn't this DAC better than the one in the sound card? (Sound Blaster Audigy) 

 How is the best way to upgrade the built-in DAC when I'm ready for it?


----------



## Bigmouth

Anyone?


----------



## jernmo

Ok, well how about this one. It looks like this Dac/Amp compares similarly to the Meier Corda Cantate. Anyone that can compare these two devices?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jernmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, well how about this one. It looks like this Dac/Amp compares similarly to the Meier Corda Cantate. Anyone that can compare these two devices?_

 

I would rate the amp of the v8 a lot higher than the Canate. A different class imo.


----------



## jernmo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would rate the amp of the v8 a lot higher than the Canate. A different class imo._

 

What about with higher impedance cans like the HD650's?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jernmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about with higher impedance cans like the HD650's?_

 

Works perfectly. At least as good as the Graham Slee Solo or the Lehmann Black Cube Linear.


----------



## onform

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_. I can assure you (and challenge you) that you can not find one documented fact supporting the now disproven "global warming theory" (which is all it ever was). And as far as the most recent "global cooling" theory (it was only by presented by scientists about a month ago)... at least its supported by 10 years of global cooling (every year since 1998), and the most recent science. ._

 

However much I hate fuelling a heated debate based on such uneducated and conspiracy driven ramblings such as these i feel it my place to take up the chalenge put by gradofan2: 

 The global cooling theory was disproved and withdrawn recently by the very scientists that published the findings in the first place. The cooling theory was based on 10 years worth of data recieved from tempeture recording satalites scanning the earths surface. At first the evidence seemed to be spot on and did indeed fuel the anti global warming brigades debate for a long time. However the scientists recently discovered an error in the data, over the ten years that the data was recorded the satalites were in fact getting closer to the earths surface, ( by only a tiny fraction), this meant however that they were recording the earths tempeture at later and later times of the day over the ten year period thus giving a slight decrease to the total global tempeture. Once this was discovered and calculations were re-run they did indeed conclude that the earth had indeed warmed to the same degree that they had origanaly said it had cooled. 

 This is proven evidence that the earth is warming at an increasing amount each year and also coincides with the data recorded from old fasioned thermometers.

 Sorry guys for that but I hate the fact that some people still delude themselves to the fact that this isnt happening and that we didnt all had a part to play in it. the fact is to make a difference we all have to do our bit and its hard work to make a change it always is. some people are not willing to put in the extra effort i guess.

 anyway recycled beer anyone...lol


----------



## antiman

i have the x can v3 and i love it. i am tempted to do the pink floyd upgrades to it to see if there's a marked improvement, but i think it sounds great now... anyone compared the two yet?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antiman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have the x can v3 and i love it. i am tempted to do the pink floyd upgrades to it to see if there's a marked improvement, but i think it sounds great now... anyone compared the two yet?_

 

I had a Pink Floyd modded v3. The v8 is a BIG step better.


----------



## donunus

How's the DAC on the v8? anything special? Is it at least comparable or better than the headamp pico's dac?


----------



## DefectiveAudioComponent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a Pink Floyd modded v3. The v8 is a BIG step better._

 

With what cans?


----------



## Bigmouth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How's the DAC on the v8? anything special? Is it at least comparable or better than the headamp pico's dac?_

 

According to most people it isn't that good. But some says it's reasonably good, and someone in this thread said they preferred the sound form the built-in DAC over the sound from a Zero DAC (the built-in sounded warmer, the Zero more analytic). I have no experience myself so I'm just saying what other people says. I'm probably going to buy this one next week or so, and start with only the DAC.


----------



## anton2

I happen to own the V3 XCan, Wonderful. A delight to listen to. Maybe my AKG7000 contributes a little also.. ;-P

 But what happens to the V8 ? It disturbs me that the only review that you get by googling a bit is downright negative. VERY negative. And its arguments sound sensible. 
 quote:
 [Beware of the Musical Fidelity X-CANv8.

 It doesn't have sufficient power (current & voltage) to drive either low impedence, or high impedence headphones to reasonable volumes, without hiss / noise... without a using a pre-amp / line stage, or exceptionally high gain signal output from your source.

 Think... like... 75% to 100% POT setting to achieve reasonable volume with noise / hiss in the background. ]

 (Musical Fidelity Musical Fidelity X-CAN v8 Reviews)

 Of course I do not believe everything that is written, but it is strange so littel suport. Maybe the twin headphone output requires DOUBLE power, not just 30% more. 

 Anyway, the V3 IS WONDERFUL. I miss only the double output, not really the DAC and USB interface... Why ? Well, The problem does not lie (usually) in the DAC, but on the USB input. Nobody has clearly begotten a real 'HiFi' USB connect. If you look at the big makers, they have great digital inputs through great DACs, but nobody swears (up to now) by what he's heard through a USB interface to a high quality HiFi system...


----------



## arteom

Google will give you maybe 2 or 3 reviews, all made by one person, gradofan. Who also posted the same thing here...earlier on anyway. Later he did say that he was a bit harsh in his views, perhaps. I wish he would do the same in the other places he posted. Read this thread, also go see if you can get a copy of the september issue of stereophile magazine which reviewed this unit and gave very positive remarks, the reviews should hopefully be posted on their website soon.


----------



## anton2

Ok, I admit to it - it is almost incredible that MF could market a clearly underpowered h-p amp. As I said, I do not own it, and never tested. Maybe I'll try to when I next pop up by my retailer.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Arteom......*

 I have my eye on the new *Cambridge Dac Magic* with USB input to replace my Keces 151 USB Dac for computer based music......could be killer with Xcan v8 and retail is only $399 before discounts on web, features dual Wolfson Dacs, Anagram Tech ATF upsampling and much more

Dac Magic

 Also saw that Music Direct has raised price on Xcan v8 to $649

 BTW I still love my Xcan v8


----------



## arteom

Thanks for the tip on the Cambridge, DarkAngel. I am however in the process of purchasing a tube based unit. Spending a bit of money on it but hopefully it should hold off the need to upgrade later on. I bet the quote they have at the bottom is a big reason why they hiked the price up a $100... This is my first "serious" headamp and I really see no reason to buy another.


----------



## taso89

Just to let you know, this amp is still $550 on Audio Advisor:

Musical Fidelity - X-CAN v8 - Tube Output - Headphone Amp-Audio Advisor


----------



## Bigmouth

How does the Pico compare to X-Can V8?


----------



## jernmo

Hey everyone, I just received my X-Can V8 this afternoon! It's burning in as we speak I've got about 3.5hrs on it right now and I have some observations, and some questions...

 First is my question. Does anyone elses' headphone out's move? Mine wiggle and make very slight noise. It doesn't seem quite right for a unit of this caliber.

 I also notice with my HD650's on my V8 I listen to most songs (so far) at around 12 O'clock. If it is a lower overall volume song I might go to 2 O'clock. The unit gets plenty loud, I would never max it out. More updates to come as I burn this puppy in.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jernmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everyone, I just received my X-Can V8 this afternoon! It's burning in as we speak I've got about 3.5hrs on it right now and I have some observations, and some questions...

 First is my question. Does anyone elses' headphone out's move? Mine wiggle and make very slight noise. It doesn't seem quite right for a unit of this caliber.

 I also notice with my HD650's on my V8 I listen to most songs (so far) at around 12 O'clock. If it is a lower overall volume song I might go to 2 O'clock. The unit gets plenty loud, I would never max it out. More updates to come as I burn this puppy in._

 

If its new, I'd ship it back to the vendor and exchange it for another without a loose phone socket - it should not be loose. 

 If it's not new - I'd contact MF and see if they'll repair it under warranty.

 If none of those are options - then I'd probably take the front face plate off and see If I could tighten it myself - likely a fairly simple procedure. The v3 and v8 are very easy to work on. I would have started with that - except, you don't want to void your warranty. 

 If you're getting good volume at 12 O'clock with your Senns - that's good. I had to set the POT at 2-3 O'clock to achieve loud volume with my Senns. But - the amp was outstanding with Denons and Grados at lower POT settings - better than with Senns, though iit was good with Senns.


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jernmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everyone, I just received my X-Can V8 this afternoon! It's burning in as we speak I've got about 3.5hrs on it right now and I have some observations, and some questions...

 First is my question. Does anyone elses' headphone out's move? Mine wiggle and make very slight noise. It doesn't seem quite right for a unit of this caliber.

 I also notice with my HD650's on my V8 I listen to most songs (so far) at around 12 O'clock. If it is a lower overall volume song I might go to 2 O'clock. The unit gets plenty loud, I would never max it out. More updates to come as I burn this puppy in._

 

The one I have is the same , there is a bit of slack there. I don't think you mean that it goes all over the place, but rather it has a few mm of slack, or wiggle room as you put it. This did bug me for a bit, but I don't think its that big of a deal, I'm pretty sure all the units have this trait [right guys?].

 If you mean you hear a slight noise through the headphones, that noise is likely the tubes. The tubes that shipped with it will have a sort of audible pop when you plug in some headphones, especially true during burn in time. I have tried various tubes, and some have an audible pop when first installed and don't have it anymore afterward, but I think the stock tubes did have it even after using it for a bit.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jernmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everyone, I just received my X-Can V8 this afternoon! It's burning in as we speak I've got about 3.5hrs on it right now and I have some observations, and some questions...

 First is my question. Does anyone elses' headphone out's move? Mine wiggle and make very slight noise. It doesn't seem quite right for a unit of this caliber.

 I also notice with my HD650's on my V8 I listen to most songs (so far) at around 12 O'clock. If it is a lower overall volume song I might go to 2 O'clock. The unit gets plenty loud, I would never max it out. More updates to come as I burn this puppy in._

 

The headphone out is designed like that on purpose: if you look closely it has a rubber bezel around the outer parameter.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The headphone out is designed like that on purpose: if you look closely it has a rubber bezel around the outer parameter._

 

Check with MF and confirm this point. 

 None of my X-Cans have ever had a phone socket that "moved," or had noise it it. 

 The bezel is hard plastic, not rubber. 

 I don't think the socket should have any movement in it at all.


----------



## arteom

Gradofan, if you have a headphone plugged in, and you grab the headphone jack by the end, and push/tip up [with not much effort] wont you be able to do so and have the socket move a bit with you? This movement isn't anymore than a mm or so, so nothing extreme. Also if some of the other owners could chime in it would help clarify this.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan, if you have a headphone plugged in, and you grab the headphone jack by the end, and push/tip up [with not much effort] wont you be able to do so and have the socket move a bit with you? This movement isn't anymore than a mm or so, so nothing extreme. Also if some of the other owners could chime in it would help clarify this._

 

Not that I've ever noticed - that the socket itself moved.

 I suppose it's possible that the plug moved a slight bit up, and down, in the fixed socket - but, I never noticed that either. 

 A small portion of the black plastic insulator on my v3 socket did "flake" off, but, I never noticed any movement, even then. 

 If there had been movement... I think I would have noticed it. I believe the plug fit snuggly and the socket was rigid.


----------



## chanticleer707

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one I have is the same , there is a bit of slack there. I don't think you mean that it goes all over the place, but rather it has a few mm of slack, or wiggle room as you put it. This did bug me for a bit, but I don't think its that big of a deal, I'm pretty sure all the units have this trait [right guys?].

 If you mean you hear a slight noise through the headphones, that noise is likely the tubes. The tubes that shipped with it will have a sort of audible pop when you plug in some headphones, especially true during burn in time. I have tried various tubes, and some have an audible pop when first installed and don't have it anymore afterward, but I think the stock tubes did have it even after using it for a bit._

 

My V8 arrived this afternoon. I cannot visibly see any moving in or out in both sockets. However, I do get this slight noise while plugging in the headphones, and it only goes into the left channel. It can also be reproduce by rotating the headphone plug, or tapping gently on the top of V8. It also seems independent of the volume dial. Does this noise come from one of the stock tubes that is in charge of the left channel, or from the sockets (it's there with both sockets)? Can you also confirm if you find such noise so that I can be sure whether this is just with the individual unit or not? Thanks.


----------



## jernmo

Mine makes a buzzing type noise when I touch/tap the headphone jack and the USB/Line switch. It almost sounds like a ground loop issue. But other than that it seems to work perfectly.


----------



## chanticleer707

Yes, something similar to that. Curiously it is found only in the left channel, none in the right one.

 Another way to find the "buzz" noise: listening to one set of headphones plugged, I'll get the same noise when I gently plug in another socket. Can I conclude from that that the buzz is generated in the electric circuit, and in particular, possibly has something to do with the tube? Since it affects just one sound channel. I had the impression that someone mentioned previously (might be talking about the older v3) that loose tubes could be the source of noise. Is there something similar here? 

 I brought this to the discussion partly because of my curiosity of where the noise came from, partly trying to conclude whether I should consider this as some kind of minor "defect".


----------



## Griffy04

I just bought a v8 today, and trying it out with my AKG K702's already I'm very impressed! It needs more burning in, and as I'm using the USB connection, I will try my cd player as an alternative source in a few days. I have the Arcam MS250 music server/cd player which isn't burnt in yet, but is supposed to be a very good cdp in its own right. So far so good......


----------



## Artmon

[size=small]Can I use my PSU V3 with an X-CAN V8?[/size]

 [size=small]Regards[/size]


----------



## Jacques

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Artmon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=small]Can I use my PSU V3 with an X-CAN V8?[/size]

 [size=small]Regards[/size]_

 

Unfortunately you can not.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Artmon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=small]Can I use my PSU V3 with an X-CAN V8?[/size]

 [size=small]Regards[/size]_

 

Yes.


----------



## Jacques

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes._

 


 Sorry, I thought I read the older one but thi is correct, the v3 should work.


----------



## Claus-DK

has anyone tried to upgrade the DAC ??
 Is it possible ??


----------



## incursore61

I just bought a new degree Rs1, I recommended to match this headphone amplifier MUSICAL FIDELITY X CAN V8 ?


----------



## incursore61

hellò !!!???


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *incursore61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a new degree Rs1, I recommended to match this headphone amplifier MUSICAL FIDELITY X CAN V8 ?_

 

Yes... the v8 drives the low impedance Grados well... and the Denons even better! 

 But... don't expect it to drive high impedance phones well... it doesn't - at least no where near as well as the Darkvoice amps, or Woo Audo amps... or...


----------



## FallenAngel

Any chances for better internal shots? I think it's a tube hybrid, would love to know what output transistors are used and how.

 Thanks


----------



## Headdie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes... the v8 drives the low impedance Grados well... and the Denons even better! But... don't expect it to drive high impedance phones well..._

 

I've listened to it with D2000 in one jack and DT990-600 ohms in the other jack. There was not a big volume difference. I'd say 10 o'clock with D2000 was same as 11 o'clock with DT990. BTW, I've had more fun listening to it with the DT990 than D2000. So, I guess it's a matter of taste...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've listened to it with D2000 in one jack and DT990-600 ohms in the other jack. There was not a big volume difference. I'd say 10 o'clock with D2000 was same as 11 o'clock with DT990. BTW, I've had more fun listening to it with the DT990 than D2000. So, I guess it's a matter of taste..._

 

I experienced the same with the Denons... but... try 3 O'clock+ with Senns - just not enough power to drive them properly.


----------



## Audioi

Just found this

 Did I miss it? I looked through most of this thread to compare the V2 to the newer units. I have a stock V2 and wondering what I should do???????


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audioi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just found this

 Did I miss it? I looked through most of this thread to compare the V2 to the newer units. I have a stock V2 and wondering what I should do???????_

 

i'm not but i didn't pay too much attention. have you guys been using the psu as well? how's the result?


----------



## Claus-DK

still wondering if anybody tried to upgrade the DACpart ????


----------



## mark_h

Reading this thread the amp was given a blindfold and a cigarette before anyone heard it!


----------



## Audioi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark_h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading this thread the amp was given a blindfold and a cigarette before anyone heard it!_

 

Its giving me a headache.... has anyone compared the X-Can V2 to the newer ones?


----------



## arteom

here are some internal pics i took a while back:


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here are some internal pics i took a while back:









_

 

Hi
 Is it possible for you to show the DACchip on your beautifull pictures ??
 And does it look like it can be replaced ??

 It really wexes me that I use a zero DAC in front of it instead of the USBconnection..


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark_h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading this thread the amp was given a blindfold and a cigarette before anyone heard it!_

 

I do not get that remark ??
 I really think it is an great amp, just not as good in the dac that i wish...


----------



## Gradofan2

Are all the caps glued down to the PCB? It looks like it.

 I guess that really complicates "modding" the amp by replacing the caps - "a la" Pink Floyd.


----------



## Idlewild

i bought this amp thinking it was going to be the end of all amps for the denon 

 since i was reading it hade great sinergy with them i taught of giving it a try 

 well after receiving the amp and breaking it in i did not like the quality of the sound at all it felt muddy\ slow \ too warm 

 and over that the amp broke only after 150+ hours of listeening 

 the amp was giving a feedback wen it was beign touched 

 i was very disapointed in the end result 

 i repacked it and send it back to where i bought it got a full refund 

 i then decided to try a cullen circuit GCHA ps audio modified amp 
 i TOTALY fell in love with this amp

 its so precises and just right on enny kind of music its incredible 

 it is a dream come true iam definelty keeping it long term

 i got in touch with cullen circuits to mod it even more and hes working on something thats going to give it even more power into low load (not that it needs it LOL) iam sending mine back again as soon as it is available

 theirs better stuff then the xcan for denon this amp is and severly under powerd for high impedence cans

 it is OVERLY hyped 

 Cheers


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Idlewild* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i bought this amp thinking it was going to be the end of all amps for the denon 

 i was very disapointed in the end result 

 theirs better stuff then the xcan for denon this amp is and severly under powerd for high impedence cans_

 

I strongly disagree... that the v8 is not great with the Denons, or other low impedance phones - it is simply GREAT with them!

 However... I do agree the v8 is NOT GREAT with high impedance phones - some might say TERRIBLE.

 Though... there could well be "better stuff" with the Denons.


----------



## arteom

@Clause - I might take some more pics the next time I open up the amp, if you are really interested to know open it up and share with us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, you just need to unscrew the 4 screws on the front and the single screw that is between the RCA jacks in the back. 

 @GradoFan - yeah allot of them are glued down, you should be able to see which are not in the pics.


----------



## incursore61

Unfortunately in Italy the importer Musical Fodelity was closed, so for now, is no longer 
 M.F, know can purchase online stores that sell in germany or 
 England?


----------



## Claus-DK

We just went to a canjam in Denmark and my V8 was able to drive everything that we threw at it, this includes senn 650, beyer dt990 (600 ohm), beyer dt880, AKG701 and a lot of others, I was a bit surpriced over just how versatile this amp is and I love it more and more for each day that passes....

 It stood it´s own againts some serious priced amps...So what I thougth was an expensive amp is actually a bargin


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We just went to a canjam in Denmark and my V8 was able to drive everything that we threw at it, this includes senn 650, beyer dt990 (600 ohm), beyer dt880, AKG701 and a lot of others, I was a bit surpriced over just how versatile this amp is and I love it more and more for each day that passes....

 It stood it´s own againts some serious priced amps...So what I thougth was an expensive amp is actually a bargin _

 

I think it is the most underrated amp on HeadFi.


----------



## Claus-DK

RE: tuberolling
 Has anyone experimented with this ??
 And is it true that you schould leave the power off for 12 hours before shifting tubes ??


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RE: tuberolling
 Has anyone experimented with this ??
 And is it true that you schould leave the power off for 12 hours before shifting tubes ??_

 

Yes. I am now using Telefunken PCC88 and very happy.
 I roll tubes as soon as they have cooled down enough (couple of minutes).


----------



## arteom

I'm using a pair of ECC88 Sylvanias and am pretty happy with the results, better clarity and better presentation of the lower band.


----------



## Claus-DK

Coool
 I have just ordered two tubes and a little pinkie and I am just dying in the waiting game....

 The reason why I was asking about tubes, was that I heard my DX1000 with another amp that had some Telefunken valves in it, and I was just blown away by the sound and then the thougth striked me, how much better would my xcan be with theese tubes ??

 I found out via another forum that it is hard/next to impossible to change the DAC, but I got some upgrades for my Zero, which are awesome..


----------



## Gradofan2

"Somethings rotten in Denmark..." 

 Someday... I'd like someone to explain the derivation of that phrase to me - maybe you guys know???

 Was it the fish rotting that that Marcellus was referring to in Hamlet? (He said facetiously - i.e. the mains power, etc.)

 Anyway... its really a mystery... 

 ... that some folks think the v8 is great with all phones... period... 

 ... while others think its great with Denons, but not Senns...

 ... while others thinks its terrible with Denons...

 There must be some explanation for all of these diverse and strongly held views of this amp. 

 I have no idea... 

 ... though, I tend to think there is some difference in the construction of the amps, various persons have tried... or... the difference is the result of the different voltage of the mains in the EU and US... or... who knows what.

 But... I do know... the two I tried (and returned) in the US, about a year ago... were superb with Denons... and... bad to OK with Senns, and way underpowered with Senns. I had to dial the POT to ~1-3 O'clock for either... and... that's with the standard 2-3 v output from my sources.

 Its a mystery...


----------



## Claus-DK

Well as a danish I know a lot of things is rotten in Denma..
 But in the Hamlet story I do beleive that it was the plots against hamlet and the atempt to steal the throne, that was rotten....

 One thing that is not rotten is the V8...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well as a danish I know a lot of things is rotten in Denma..
 But in the Hamlet story I do beleive that it was the plots against hamlet and the atempt to steal the throne, that was rotten....

 One thing that is not rotten is the V8... _

 

Yes... I know... and... I realize you are a Dane... which is what prompted me to use that reference. 

 I was being a bit "cute" because of your supportive comments about the v8.

 I still don't understand the "mystery" behind the many divergent opinions regarding the v8 - I don't believe it has anything to do with the varying preferences of those who have commented. 

 I think it must be something more - which relates to the matching with various sources, or variations in the mains, or... maybe... even variations in the construction of the amps.

 But... there... must be "something..."


----------



## Claus-DK

Yeah I am not a danish but a dane, eventhough I really like Danish (the bread-thing, in Denmark it is called wiener, which is a region in Germany)...

 I now that you have had more than your share of problems with the V8 and it makes me think, if your are the only american that have this amp. ? 

 To drive the senn 650 we had to turn the volumen to about 12-1, but it still had plenty of juice to give..

 AFIK you got the "little pinkie" for yours ?? so it cannot really be the mains...hmmmm

 Are your only sittings with the V8 at the same time they power up that BBQchair ??? that could explain things 

 I also know that you have been through 2 different v8s, which should rule out faulty amps..

 Anyway you are more than welcome to visit me if you ever comes to Denmark, maybe my unit sounds bad too...

 p.s I made a joke when I explained the Hamlet story.....I do not know anything about Hamlet, just saw the movie..


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I am not a danish but a dane, eventhough I really like Danish (the bread-thing, in Denmark it is called wiener, which is a region in Germany)...

 I now that you have had more than your share of problems with the V8 and it makes me think, if your are the only american that have this amp. ? 

 To drive the senn 650 we had to turn the volumen to about 12-1, but it still had plenty of juice to give..

 AFIK you got the "little pinkie" for yours ?? so it cannot really be the mains...hmmmm

 Are your only sittings with the V8 at the same time they power up that BBQchair ??? that could explain things 

 I also know that you have been through 2 different v8s, which should rule out faulty amps..

 Anyway you are more than welcome to visit me if you ever comes to Denmark, maybe my unit sounds bad too...

 p.s I made a joke when I explained the Hamlet story.....I do not know anything about Hamlet, just saw the movie.._

 

No... just the MF Walwart power supply. Perhaps the PSU would make a difference - though, it was a very subtle difference with my v3. 

 I just thought... that maybe there was some difference created by the 110-120v US mains vs the 240v EU mains - I have no idea. 

 Yeah... I don't think it was necessarily a defective amp(s) I had. Though, the second one seemed a little better (more powerful) than the first. 

 I would have kept the amp, if it would have driven my Senns as well as my Denons - which maxed out (were very loud) at about 12-1 O'clock on the POT. 

 As far as Hamlet... that is what I surmised from my knowledge of it, also... that he was referring to a conspiracy (something rotten) in Denmark. Never studied it, though. I had seen other references, perhaps in jest, referring to fish rotting in Denmark.


----------



## Claus-DK

Well I actually comes from a city based on fishing, so it does not smell rotten, it smells like money.....


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I actually comes from a city based on fishing, so it does not smell rotten, it smells like money....._

 

Ah yes... better the smell of money... than fish... espeically rotten fish.

 I vaguely remember the smell of money... about 18 months ago... before our stupid liberals' (Dems) sub-prime mortgage fiasco, mark-to-market rules, and speculative securities trading rules (i.e. allowing investment speculators to trade commodities, to use excessive margin loans, allowing them to sell-short without borrowing the securities, and eliminating the up-tick rule)... turned the smell of money... to "something rotten in Washington."


----------



## jernmo

FWIW, I also returned my V8 as it did not do justice in my opinion to my 650's. Once again, IMO, I find that my DV 336se (even with the stock tubes) is a much better match for my Senns than the V8 ever was. And it is about half the price. Now my Denon's rarely got plugged in, but they sounded "good", but then again my Denon's sound good plugged into just about anything.


----------



## arteom

Would it be a problem using 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes with the v8? Thinking of purchasing a pair of Tungsram for it to replace Sylvanias.


----------



## dkg

My XCan V8P arrived last week. I have two issues with it:

 1. I'm using My Shure SE530's when I plug these into the Xcan with the volume off there is quite a bit of tube noise.

 2. The lack of an off switch is frustrating, plus the power supply gets quite hot
 the touch.

 I like the preamp feature and wanted to use this for a new stereo for my office
 as well as headphone listening

 Sound quality is decent, but the noise floor is quite high

 David


----------



## Jeddan

Anyone knows how the Sennheiser HD 595 sounds with the x-can v8? :O


----------



## Zombie_X

Check out my thread in the headphones section to get a big comparison between headphones that were amped with the X-CanV8P.

 Mine gets quite warm to, is that normal. Another thing is that I have jack issues on mine. Like if I move the plug side to side, the signal may cut to the right/left. This only happens with the K701 though.


----------



## Jeddan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check out my thread in the headphones section to get a big comparison between headphones that were amped with the X-CanV8P.

 Mine gets quite warm to, is that normal. Another thing is that I have jack issues on mine. Like if I move the plug side to side, the signal may cut to the right/left. This only happens with the K701 though._

 

Thanks =) nice review.. im probably gonna go with the x-can v8 since I'm gonna upgrade to AKG 701 later ^^


----------



## Zombie_X

It's a great match, you'll like it a lot. The K701 will blow you away when you get it.


----------



## Zombie_X

I actually got a chance to try the DAC on my V8P earlier today and it isn't as bad as people say, but I have heard far better. I don't see a problem with people using it, especially if you were able to change the DAC chip.


----------



## Happy Camper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be a problem using 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes with the v8? Thinking of purchasing a pair of Tungsram for it to replace Sylvanias._

 

According to Tubeworld you can.

https://www.tubeworld.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## Skylab

The only difference between a 7DJ8 and a 6DJ8 is the voltage - the 7DJ8 has a 7.6V heater voltage, versus 6.3V. Most of the time you can substitute the 7DJ8 with no problem, but it's best to check with the amp's maker, where possible. I asked Steve Deckert of Decware about using them in my CSP-2, and he said it would be fine, so I have a trio of them on order


----------



## Zombie_X

Skylab, do you know if the 7DJ8's would help with driving higher impedance phones such as my DT880/600Ohm or HD600's?


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be a problem using 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes with the v8? Thinking of purchasing a pair of Tungsram for it to replace Sylvanias._

 

I use Telefunken PCC88 and they work just fine.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, do you know if the 7DJ8's would help with driving higher impedance phones such as my DT880/600Ohm or HD600's?_

 

No. It has the same amplification factor as the 6DJ8. And in since the output stage of the XCan is solid state, and the gain of the the 6DJ8 and 7DJ8 are the same, there should be no change.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audioi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just found this

 Did I miss it? I looked through most of this thread to compare the V2 to the newer units. I have a stock V2 and wondering what I should do???????_

 

Still working my way through this enormous thread!

 Re comparisons, between the original X-CANS and the V8P the difference is that the V8P has more clarity and detail, a lot more separation between instruments and significantly more soundstage. I found the music from the X-CANS was all in my head, now it it all around me. I find that the V8P has a bit more dynamics and bass extension and a bit less sibilance on trebles.

 Regards your V2, see if you can get a modding kit from Rock Grotto; Headphone amp Hobby Page, Head amp, Headphone amplifier, headphone amplifier kit, headphone amp UK, DIY headphone amplifier UK, X-Can V2, X-can V2 mods, B-tech 928, White noise audio headphone amplifier, Graham slee solo, X-psu, Chiarra andante, head and if you go for the works you will have an amp which is just about as good as the V8P IMHO!


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## reptillian

let me get this straight, this has a USB input, therefore can it be linked to a portable minidisc player with a USB out?


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## Zombie_X

Yes it can as long as the USB output is digital. It works as a PC DAC pretty good as well.


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## ultraman

Will spend some days in Hong kong next month. Dose anyone know where in HK I can buy a X-can V8 w psu, and how much?
 Thanks!


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## CapQ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ultraman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will spend some days in Hong kong next month. Dose anyone know where in HK I can buy a X-can V8 w psu, and how much?
 Thanks!_

 

I heard that v8p in HK is quite cheaper than US/UK
 amazing price


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## freecitizen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just my personal observation. I think the old v3 has it all over the new v8 in terms of looks. Unless the photos are some sort of mock up, to me it has really gone downhill in terms of visual appeal. I thought the old one very appealing. The new one looks like something made in a back shed as a school metalwork project.

 (...)
_

 

Why would we care how it looks if it sounds good?

 BTW, does anyone know of a schematic for its circuit lying somewhere in the www?


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## freecitizen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah yes... better the smell of money... than fish... espeically rotten fish.

 I vaguely remember the smell of money... about 18 months ago... before our stupid liberals' (Dems) sub-prime mortgage fiasco, mark-to-market rules, and speculative securities trading rules (i.e. allowing investment speculators to trade commodities, to use excessive margin loans, allowing them to sell-short without borrowing the securities, and eliminating the up-tick rule)... turned the smell of money... to "something rotten in Washington."_

 

Say, was that not the work of clever neo-cons? But this is a subject for another forum isn't it?


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## freecitizen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Prog Rock Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(...)

 Re comparisons, between the original X-CANS and the V8P the difference is that the V8P has more clarity and detail, a lot more separation between instruments and significantly more soundstage. I found the music from the X-CANS was all in my head, now it it all around me. I find that the V8P has a bit more dynamics and bass extension and a bit less sibilance on trebles.

 (...)_

 

That is an interesting observation. The only way that can happen is if one is listening through a pair of AKG earspeakers. With ordinary cans, that is simply not possible unless the program is biphonic (binaural) material.


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## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freecitizen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Say, was that not the work of clever neo-cons? But this is a subject for another forum isn't it?_

 

Please try to avoid taking the bait from obvious trolls. His post is in flagrant violation of forum rules, and has not a thing to do with the subject of this thread. Ignore him and he will go away.


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## Tidal

I'd like to know the "line out" of the V8(not V8P) is just a line out from its dac or a line out of its amp section. Thanks.


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## Zombie_X

It's the line out of the amp, sadly the DAC doesn't work though Line Out.


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## Claus-DK

it is quite indifferent if the V8 can be used as a DAC, the DAC in the V8 stinks..


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## Solitary1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it is quite indifferent if the V8 can be used as a DAC, the DAC in the V8 stinks.._

 

As far as I'm concerned it does, stink that is.


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## kenratboy

Regarding the DAC - I think the main issue is it stinking/sucking - but compared to hooking it up to my CD player, the level is much lower. I really have to crank it with the DAC, where as the line in from my CD player seems to have a lot more force and drive.


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## Claus-DK

even an Ipod output has more grunt, but that is not the problem the problem is that everythings is just smeared allover, with nice colours that are comfrotable to look at, but there is no really substans in it.


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## Neeley

Is there any way to improve the DAC in the V8? The amp itself sounds wonderful but the USB input is a huge, disappointment. It's the main why I bought this thing, the plan was to do away with my aged soundcard.


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## TheMiddleSky

anyone have compare it to Solo II or WA6?


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