# VOX: Mac OSX Music Player



## kimvictor

VOX: Mac OSX Music Player
About the Reviewer, Other Reviews
  
 There are lots of audiophiles using Macs. I always found this ironic, as iTunes lacks audiophile features that other Windows OS players(ex.foobar2000) had. There certainly are other softwares for music playback, but all of them were heavy and laggy, not to mention the cost and the not so user-friendly UI.
  
 I’ve used Macs for about 5 years now(13in Macbook Pro, 11in Macbook Air, and now a 13in Macbook Air). After about 5 years of searching, I think I concluded on a “perfect music player” for Mac.
  
 I hereby introduce Vox! Vox is a fairly new music player, created around 2012 or 2013. This year, Vox had a major update, and the new interface and features are shockingly awesome. Here are reasons why you should use Vox if you have a Mac.
  
 Developer Website: http://coppertino.com/
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
 So...here are reasons why you should use Vox:
  
*1. Awesome UI*

 Simplistic and Elegant. Vox has some of the best designs I’ve ever seen.
  
  
*2. Audiophile Format Support*
 It supports just about any file you can think of. Flac, MP3, Apple Lossless, whatever. You name it, and Vox will support it.
  
  
*3. Features*

_Media Control(menubar)                                                   Remote Support_

 Simple EQ, and more importantly, the ability to choose different output source. This also means that you can just listen to music on a specific output(which is a bit different from using MIDI Setup). For example, when you are browsing online, you can have the Mac output set to built in speakers and mute it, and have Vox output to your DAC, and only your music will be played through your headphones. Vox will even automatically adjust the output sample rate to match that of the audio file being played. There is also handful of fancy features, such as remote support and even BS2B presets like Chu Moy. There’s also a radio feature, if you make a small donation to the makers of Vox. However, there are more serious audiophile features, which is featured in part 4.
  
  
*4. Audio Unit(Apple’s AU)*
 Vox Supports AU! Although created by apple, these features are not accessible in iTunes, and these are some serious features. These features are accessible through: View-Audio Units.

 Come on. How often do you see these kind of features? I don’t even know what 1/3 of the features are. 31 band graphic EQ and highly customizable options. What more could you ask for from such an elegant player?
  
  
Final Remarks:
 I was always irritated as some heavy PC-fiers would drop hundreds of dollars for minor improvements(like cables), but would use iTunes or other crappy third party players. Certain players, like Vox, could cause a huge improvement in sound quality, depending on how you use them. Cheers to Coppertino, the developer of Vox. Vox can be downloaded from the App Store for free(but I highly recommend donating). Feel free to ask any questions about Vox(I’ve been using Vox for couple month’s now).


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## Solrighal

Nice advert! Still, in a straight back-to-back session I'm afraid JRiver is superior. Vox does look nice though, I'll give you that.


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## kimvictor

solrighal said:


> Nice advert! Still, in a straight back-to-back session I'm afraid JRiver is superior. Vox does look nice though, I'll give you that.


I personally prefer the ease of use of Vox over J river. Also, Vox is free! As a light weight audio player, Vox is perfect for me.


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## jfaaz

kimvictor said:


> I personally prefer the ease of use of Vox over J river. Also, Vox is free! As a light weight audio player, Vox is perfect for me.


 
  
 Jriver is also my choice.  The only other player for Mac that works good with libraries over 2tb or 200,000 tracks is Swinsian.  If you have to use iTunes with another player, forget it.  Vox would not work for me.


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## kimvictor

jfaaz said:


> Jriver is also my choice.  The only other player for Mac that works good with libraries over 2tb or 200,000 tracks is Swinsian.  If you have to use iTunes with another player, forget it.  Vox would not work for me.


 
 Huh? What do you mean use iTunes with another player?


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## jfaaz

kimvictor said:


> Huh? What do you mean use iTunes with another player?


 

 Bitperfect is an example of a player that uses iTunes.
  
 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bitperfect/id455545700?mt=12


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## kimvictor

jfaaz said:


> Bitperfect is an example of a player that uses iTunes.
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bitperfect/id455545700?mt=12


 
 But Vox is not a program that uses iTunes. It can be used with iTunes, but it can also be used independently. My itunes library is completely empty, and all my music library is in Vox.


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## Solrighal

jfaaz said:


> Jriver is also my choice.  The only other player for Mac that works good with libraries over 2tb or 200,000 tracks is Swinsian.  If you have to use iTunes with another player, forget it.  Vox would not work for me.




I've never heard of Swinsian until now. I'll download the trial & see how it goes. Good shout.


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## kimvictor

Actually, I do see why people might root for other players. I usually keep a fairly small library, with about 30 albums or so, which is easily manageable with Vox. If you have over 50albums, Vox might not be the best way to sort out your library.


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## jfaaz

Swinsian is great because you can search for duplicates and remove them easily.  Swinsian also does DSD.   Jriver is great for its customizable themes and sounds perhaps a little better than Swinsian.


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## Solrighal

kimvictor said:


> Actually, I do see why people might root for other players. I usually keep a fairly small library, with about 30 albums or so, which is easily manageable with Vox. If you have over 50albums, Vox might not be the best way to sort out your library.




I have around 7000 albums so managing that is important but I do like Vox, if only it had a folder tree view. 




jfaaz said:


> Swinsian is great because you can search for duplicates and remove them easily.  Swinsian also does DSD.   Jriver is great for its customizable themes and sounds perhaps a little better than Swinsian.




Speaking of which, I see Swinsian doesn't have a tree view either. That's a fail. That's my main reason for using JRiver. It also sounds better than everything else I've tried thus far, although I have no idea why. Surely bit perfect is as good as it can get?


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## Solrighal

I emailed Swinsian to see if they're ever likely to include a folder view and the reply was No. What's so difficult about implementing this feature? 

On a side note I've spent the last two hours comparing the sound of Vox, Swinsian & JRiver and JRiver wins hands down. It was a blind test performed by myself and a friend, all effects off and using 'hog mode' where offered. There was pretty much no difference between Vox & Swinsian with both delivering a flat, dark sound. JRiver sounded just a wee bit brighter overall. Again, why this should be the case I have no idea. 

The big plus for me though is that JRiver accepts VST plug-ins which allows me to use GlissEQ, a terrific plug-in for those bright, anaemic recordings made in the 80's. If JRiver's interface fitted better with the Mac norm I'd be over the moon. As it is it looks plain ugly. Both Vox & Swinsian are ahead in the looks department.


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## kimvictor

solrighal said:


> I emailed Swinsian to see if they're ever likely to include a folder view and the reply was No. What's so difficult about implementing this feature?
> 
> On a side note I've spent the last two hours comparing the sound of Vox, Swinsian & JRiver and JRiver wins hands down. It was a blind test performed by myself and a friend, all effects off and using 'hog mode' where offered. There was pretty much no difference between Vox & Swinsian with both delivering a flat, dark sound. JRiver sounded just a wee bit brighter overall. Again, why this should be the case I have no idea.
> 
> The big plus for me though is that JRiver accepts VST plug-ins which allows me to use GlissEQ, a terrific plug-in for those bright, anaemic recordings made in the 80's. If JRiver's interface fitted better with the Mac norm I'd be over the moon. As it is it looks plain ugly. Both Vox & Swinsian are ahead in the looks department.


 
 Interesting. So the players sound different, even with all the EQ and effects off? I'll give JRiver another shot, and see if it does sound different.


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## nightgost

I'll try this good lookin interface, vox! if theres something i dislike i'll post. 
 I'm looking forward to know you opinion about jriver audio quality, i've use it in windows about an year.
 i listen on a Fiio E17 and a shenn hd25-13 (600ohm).


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## HiFiAudio

jfaaz said:


> Swinsian is great because you can search for duplicates and remove them easily.  Swinsian also does DSD.   Jriver is great for its customizable themes and sounds perhaps a little better than Swinsian.


 

 Very recently I found VOX 2.4 (build 2400.112 12/16/2014) plays DSD files now!  Tried it with various .dff and .dsf audio files, played them all without issues.  Not bad for freeware IMHO.  
  
Then there is this posted on their web site and twitter 12/12
  
Something new is coming… Be ready to dive into infinity! *from VOX developers http://coppertino.com/vox/infinity


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## kimvictor

hifiaudio said:


> Very recently I found VOX 2.4 (build 2400.112 12/16/2014) plays DSD files now!  Tried it with various .dff and .dsf audio files, played them all without issues.  Not bad for freeware IMHO.
> 
> Then there is this posted on their web site and twitter 12/12
> 
> Something new is coming… Be ready to dive into infinity! *from VOX developers http://coppertino.com/vox/infinity


 
 I saw that. I wonder what that is though. On the side note, there are quite few bugs that Coppertino has to fix on the new version.


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## ivanflo

I too am a dedicated Vox user, the app is wonderfully designed, i wish it had an expanded or full screen view. 
  
 pretty intrigued with this infinity thing, perhaps it has something to do with Apple's Continuity or is some kind of music discovery/store?
  
 Being on the Mac side of the fence, i like to support coppertino who are specifically supporting my preferred platform.


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## HardTech

I used to be an avid VOX user, but the latest updates have turned me off. It used to be perfect. I have my entire collection sorted into folders, and I used to be able to drag-drop the folder into the VOX application in various locations to either clear out my playlist and play the folder, or to append the current playlist. It seems that simple action has been complicated for no apparent reason.


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## lamode

I tried it, even though I am quite content with Audirvana Plus 2.
  
 It attempts a lot of connections to different servers. I generally dislike that.
  
 It lost my AU plugins every time I restarted. That's a deal breaker.
  
 It didn't find my SACD ISOs, DSF or WV files.Another deal breaker.
  
 It also doesn't seem to control the DAC the way Audirvana does.
  
 I'll pass.


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## kimvictor

hardtech said:


> I used to be an avid VOX user, but the latest updates have turned me off. It used to be perfect. I have my entire collection sorted into folders, and I used to be able to drag-drop the folder into the VOX application in various locations to either clear out my playlist and play the folder, or to append the current playlist. It seems that simple action has been complicated for no apparent reason.


 
 You always have the option to use Vox v1. Coppertino has it listed on their website as the original version.


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## ivanflo

I think VOX has a simple clean UI when compared to Audirvana.
  
 i find it just looks to cluttered, very distracting. 
  
 I'm still hoping the second gen Zune PC Software gets released on MAC, we can dream right?


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## lamode

ivanflo said:


> I think VOX has a simple clean UI when compared to Audirvana.
> 
> i find it just looks to cluttered, very distracting.


 
  
 Which version is Audirvana have you tried? I'm using Audirvana Plus v2 and it is a very simple and clean interface.
  

  
  
 This is a Zune screenshot, correct?


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## ivanflo

Yes and yes, mostly. 
  
 I didn't really word myself properly, but for me Audirvana has too much of a file explorer/finder look. Very 'utilitarian' and simple in it's actual design. 
 Where Zune in my opinion, has a 'utilitarian' and simple design which i find more intuitive and experiential. 
  
 I will attempt to explain myself:
  
 audirvana - shows a ton of info in a rigid grid (title/artist/album/disc/genre/sample rate etc.)
                  - All info > All the time
  
 Zune - does not show all info at once, instead visualises the album covers with large images grouped left and the containing tracks of the album selected to the right. 
          - The right info > at the right time?
  

  
 I like this screen to compare Zune to Audirvana. Displaying artist/album/track in a more relevant grid which will graphically filter as you select artist>album>track. (at high resolutions - the album grid is immense)
  
 I think Zune is more thoughtful in it's user interface, inferred hierarchy of the filters and lists, small transitional animations.
  
 J. Allard and the team at Microsoft's now defunct Pioneer Studios, were doing some critically brilliant, though not commercially brilliant work with the Zune/Kin/Courier, it's a real shame Microsoft went in another direction. Much of their influence still comes through Windows 8/phone today if you look carefully.
  
  
  but I come from a User interface/experience design background, so my view is therefore very skewed. Hopefully I made some sense


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## Kane Williams

I'm liking Vox, but don't really have anything to compare it too. I've not started to rip all my CD's yet though or download much high res music, just 30 or so free tracks from various places. I'm hoping to be able to simply have an external drive with all my music on. Each album in its own folder. I'd then like to be able to drag each folder into the collection's tab of Vox, which would create a collection for each folder/album. I'd then like to be able to copy certain tracks from each collection and create new compilations, like "the best of Stevie Wonder" etc. Is this going to be possible with vox?


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## Kane Williams

I have posted this in another thread (related to Ifi Nano iDSD) but wanted to also post it here.
  
 I made an enquiry to VOX about their DSD playback, as the screen shows 88.2 kHz in the screen when playing back a DSD track via the iDSD Nano. I wanted to ask if this meant that the DSD was being converted to PCM. This is the response:
  
DoP means "DSD over PCM", that's the point - DSD is first converted to PCM, then delivered. VOX shows the actual output PCM sample rate here.
 
VOX cannot play DSD native (as many other players also) because it would require to support DSD audio interfaces which currently we do not.
 
 So basically, the are saying that DoP requires a conversion to PCM, but I was under the impression that DoP resulted in native DSD, just wrapped in the PCM stream? Other media players have DoP and PCM conversion as two separate options. So it appears that VOX cannot deliver native DSD yet?


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## cleg

Two interesting news are coming from Coppertino, creators of Vox. 

First, iOS version is close to release...


And second, they will offer Infinite Loop, cloud service with infinite capacity for your music storage. It will allow you to seamlessly sync your music across devices. VOX for OS X and iOS will come with it's support. Pricing should be very modest.


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## Solrighal

It's a pity it won't play on my Mac mini without hiccups. JRiver plays no problems.


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## cleg

solrighal said:


> It's a pity it won't play on my Mac mini without hiccups. JRiver plays no problems.




It will be possible to use cloud service without Vox for OS X


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## kimvictor

solrighal said:


> It's a pity it won't play on my Mac mini without hiccups. JRiver plays no problems.


 
 Huh? Vox lags? Even a 2011 Mac air didn't lag with Vox. Oh though Vox does uses more memory that most other music apps. See if "load music files fully into memory" is selected.


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## Kane Williams

At the moment, I have some music is on an ext HDD, with each album in it's own folder. Inside VOX, each one of these albums is a separate collection. Is this the wrong way to do it? Should they be playlists instead? When should one use a playlist or a collection? Why should one save them, is this just in case one's computer goes wonky?
  
 Also, say I have 3 albums by an artist all saved as collections and I want to create a compilation of these 3 albums (say 5 tracks from each), can I create a playlist or collection from the others? I would consider a "playlist" to be a more of a better description for a completion, say a "chill out compilation" made up of tracks from my collections. Can I do this? I don't mind these being stored in collections or playlists.
  
 Thanks for any help.


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## Solrighal

kimvictor said:


> Huh? Vox lags? Even a 2011 Mac air didn't lag with Vox. Oh though Vox does uses more memory that most other music apps. See if "load music files fully into memory" is selected.


 
  
 It is selected. I have 16GB of RAM. It used to work fine but one of the more recent updates seems to have broken something. It's no biggie as JRiver does things Vox can't so I'm happy. Its just a shame because Vox is what I've always recommended to anyone not wanting to spend money.


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## Kane Williams

Where is the "load music files fully into memory" selection? I've just looked in the preferences and can't see it. I remember a few days ago being able to move a slider to select how much buffers but I can't find that now. Weird.


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## Solrighal

kane williams said:


> Where is the "load music files fully into memory" selection? I've just looked in the preferences and can't see it. I remember a few days ago being able to move a slider to select how much buffers but I can't find that now. Weird.


 

 Go to "Preferences / Audio / Advanced" and it's there at the bottom of the pane.


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## Kane Williams

Thanks. Don't know how I missed that advanced tab the other day!


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## Kane Williams

Btw, I don't have any issues with VOX playback and I don't load a complete track into memory. This includes DSD files being converted to PCM on the fly by VOX.


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## bobbmd

does VOX work with Beats Music? could it access my 400+ MOG playlists that I transferred to BM?
 does VOX work with TIDAL and Qobuz
 bobbmd


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## bobbmd

sorry another thing- somewhere above someone said VOX emptied their iTunes library-is that true? jRiver does that but by transferring my library but my iTunes library is still full-I would like to free up the 1TB of music on iTunes library-VOX does that? what happens if VOX loses it or crashes? I would have to rerip 800+ cd's??
 bobbmd


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## cleg

bobbmd said:


> does VOX work with Beats Music? could it access my 400+ MOG playlists that I transferred to BM?
> does VOX work with TIDAL and Qobuz
> bobbmd




no, it doesn't work. all those services doesn't have public APIs, so it's not possible to work with them


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## Solrighal

hardtech said:


> I used to be an avid VOX user, but the latest updates have turned me off. It used to be perfect. I have my entire collection sorted into folders, and I used to be able to drag-drop the folder into the VOX application in various locations to either clear out my playlist and play the folder, or to append the current playlist. It seems that simple action has been complicated for no apparent reason.




I don't know what version of Vox you tried but the latest release does exactly what you require. Dragging a folder to either the top-left or top-right panel will either add the folder to the existing playlist or clear the existing playlist. I hope that helps you. 

I'm currently trialling a Project Ember anither and not using plug-ins. Vox performs well and the occasional skips & drop-outs I complained of earlier have disappeared.


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## Kane Williams

Vox is great. Just need native (DOP) DSD playback and I'll be really happy. I'd happily pay a few quid to help them develop this function.


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## DarthFader

I'm also a fan of Vox. Intuitive, lightweight software. I don't think I could give up other programs and rely solely on it but I like having it as an option.


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## Kane Williams

darthfader said:


> I'm also a fan of Vox. Intuitive, lightweight software. I don't think I could give up other programs and rely solely on it but I like having it as an option.




I'm curios in what circumstances you chose to playback something with Vox and in what circumstances you chose something else?


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## Solrighal

I'd like to know why Vox sounds different to JRiver. Surely with EQ off and bit-perfect all players should sound the same?


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## cleg

solrighal said:


> I'd like to know why Vox sounds different to JRiver. Surely with EQ off and bit-perfect all players should sound the same?




VOX have lots of internal sound enhancers: EQ, binaural converter, etc. So I think there are some internal sound manipulations that can't be turned off. I'm asking VOX developers to make "direct output mode" for year


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## Solrighal

Well I have everything turned off and it's running in 'hog-mode' but the sound is noticeably darker and less airy than JRiver in hog-mode.


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## cleg

solrighal said:


> Well I have everything turned off and it's running in 'hog-mode' but the sound is noticeably darker and less airy than JRiver in hog-mode.




looks like "set to zero" doesn't mean "turned off" for Vox, unfortunately. they are making some refactoring in sound-related code, so I hope we'll get better sound in future


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## Kane Williams

All music playback systems should offer a direct, unprocessed output. Not happy to hear Vox has internal processing that can't be defeated.


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## kimvictor

kane williams said:


> All music playback systems should offer a direct, unprocessed output. Not happy to hear Vox has internal processing that can't be defeated.


 
 Well, it's not officially confirmed. It could be that JRiver is messing with the output. Who knows. Let's see if Coppertino has anything to say about this.


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## Solrighal

I have everything off in JRiver. Bit-perfect mode. Still, it could be JRiver but I think it's unlikely.


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## Kane Williams

Coppertino are usually very helpful and responsive. However, one guy I was speaking to was not aware that DoP was native DSD over PCM frames until I told him. This is not a dig or anything, just pointing out that the person who answers your emails MAY not know all the technical details of Vox and may say no processing takes place when in fact it does?


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## Kane Williams

Wonder if Onkyo HF player will ever be available for OSX.


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## DarthFader

kane williams said:


> I'm curios in what circumstances you chose to playback something with Vox and in what circumstances you chose something else?


 

 Usually, I tend toward Vox for aesthetic reasons. For example: if I'm on my laptop and don't want a music player cluttering up my screen while I work on other material. But it falls behind for me on organization—if I really want to dig in to my music library, that's where programs like JRiver shine.


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## Kane Williams

I asked my contact at Coppertino about the technical details of Vox and here is the relevant part of his response:
  
Your question - does VOX introduce EFX/EQ. The answer is it does, but only if You enable it. Otherwise than this, it tries to keep audio path as clean and processing - free as possible. There's no hidden EQ or enhancing, we just decode file to 32-bit floating - point data and send it to system's device. If re-sampling required - we do it very gently, using 32-point sinc interpolation, and that may be avoided by Sample Rate Sync option. That'd be bit-perfect playback up to 24 bits.
 When data are sent to device which does not support 32-bit float sample format internally, these data will have to be converted to a supported sample format (typically, 24 -bit integer), and that's where bad things may come into play, however, that's only my assumption, for I am unable to hear the difference. And I am a sound engineer with 12 years of experience in live sound/studio.

 So as for technical information - the system is playing audio for us. Files are decoded by their native decoders and Core Audio (Mac OS X audio engine) is used for playback. In case of mp3, m4a, ALAC, AAC, WAV, AIFF, CA formats, files are decoded also by Core Audio. Currently we use BASS audio library to help manage data flow and control between player and Core Audio. BASS is known to be fast, clean and byte - transparent audio library. BASS handles file reading and decoding and sends it to Core Audio. Using BASS we are able to control where the processing takes place and how helpful / harmful it is. 

 Typically those good guys who blame the sound are using players that use so called "integer mode" which allows to bypass almost all links of system audio chain, as You correctly wrote,  to decode file and send it straight to the device without conversion involved, effectively bypassing most of the goodies of Core Audio. But integer mode inherently excludes all of this stuff our users wanted us to add: effects, eq, crossfade / smooth fades, software volume control. IM is for expensive DACs, so usual listeners won't really benefit from it. I will tell You more - built-in soundcards in today's macs support float 32-bit mode natively so may even sound better than some DACs that mostly do not support it.
 
Integer mode also requires to load a file fully into memory before playing, to minimise the RF and power voltage impact of a working hard disc. That's also a problem with large files and small memory footprints - I would keep reading file from HD even if some virtual (unnoticed to me) RF of power pulses are having place. That' good enough for me but might not be enough for You. But I will tell You more - one day they will tell that reading from memory also makes voltage fluctuate, we need to read files from CPU's cache directly. That'd be fun to make real!

 Integer mode fans will never listen mp3's, however, we think VOX should play them.
 
So that's really serious question wether VOX should support Integer Mode - which hopefully makes VOX jump from "very good sound" to "absolutely good sound" for the price of having to spend lots of time adding and supporting it and making useless  lots of stuff we did previously. However VOX has some Integer Mode attributes - Sample Rate sync that allows to bypass re-sampling and Hog Mode which makes device solely available for the app, effectively bypassing system mixer.
 
Regarding the sound quality, I think You should always rely on what You hear personally.
 
Regarding DoP - there's issue with this on mac since BASS currently requires ASIO in order to do this, however, we continue searching for solution.


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## Solrighal

That's an interesting response right there. I use integer mode in JRMC but only because I've read it's the way to go. I'll have a play around with that later & see what difference it makes.


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## Kane Williams

Coppertino say IM is expensive to implement but may be added (or separate app for it developed) if they start to make some money to fund it from upcoming projects!


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## Solrighal

I've tried integer mode back & forth this afternoon and I'm not sure I hear any difference at all. I may be deaf.


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## Kane Williams

Well, Coppertino say the same thing that you'd be hard pushed to hear any difference.


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## Solrighal

Yeah, it's strange. There's a definite difference in sound between Vox & JRMC but perhaps it's something that's happening in JRiver that makes the difference. When I get home tonight I'll install Vox again and try to test things more rigorously.


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## Kane Williams

Well JRiver will have Integra Mode and Vox doesn't. Try to use the Sync sample rate option on Vox and try without and see which sounds best. Suez your DAC support 32 bit floating point processing, if not, then Vox will convert to a 24 bit version, so there is an extra stage if conversion I think.


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## Solrighal

I'm using an ODAC but I don't know what that's capable of.


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## Kane Williams

I would think the DAC can handle 32 bit floating or IM data but can't say fit sure


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## kimvictor

Newest Vox update is bugging me! The output selection malfunctions constantly. Ugh.


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## tunes

I am confused as to why apple lossless files from a ripped standard cd should sound different among the different players like iTunes, Vox or Amarra if there is no equalizer settings turned on. If the correct sampling frequency is selected and sent to the same external DAC??


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## Kane Williams

tunes said:


> I am confused as to why apple lossless files from a ripped standard cd should sound different among the different players like iTunes, Vox or Amarra if there is no equalizer settings turned on. If the correct sampling frequency is selected and sent to the same external DAC??


 

 Well, iTunes always includes some kind of conversion, Vox does not currently have an "Integer Mode", where as Amarra does I believe.
  
 Others will be able to explain this better than me.


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## kimvictor

kane williams said:


> Well, iTunes always includes some kind of conversion, Vox does not currently have an "Integer Mode", where as Amarra does I believe.
> 
> Others will be able to explain this better than me.


 
 From what I recall, Coppertino team stated that they designed Vox to keep the conversion untouched(assuming every sound effect is turned off). I'm not sure about Amarra or iTunes though.


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## Kane Williams

I know for sure Vox does not have an Integer Mode. I've had many an email conversation with Coppertino. When they add DoP, I'm sure Integer Mode will be added.


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## tunes

Really confused about all of this. 

OK VOX is free. Why do I need the integer thing?


If I decide to buy Amarra, which one?

They have four favors, Amarra HiFi, Amarra, Amarra Symphony, Amarra SQ. They claim Amarra sQ makes streaming Internet music sound better?? But then I have to buy either HiFi or Amarra plus sq??

I will be listen to apple lossless files ripped from CDs mostly from a MacBook Pro and some hi res files AFLAC etc


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## Kane Williams

Here is some info I received from Oleg at Coppertino. He is a very nice guy who spends time replying to my emails etc. I hope he will not mind me publishing the excerpt from an email. as it will be of interest to some here.
  
  
  
Your question - does VOX introduce EFX/EQ. The answer is it does, but only if You enable it. Otherwise than this, it tries to keep audio path as clean and processing - free as possible. There's no hidden EQ or enhancing, we just decode file to 32-bit floating - point data and send it to system's device. If re-sampling required - we do it very gently, using 32-point sinc interpolation, and that may be avoided by Sample Rate Sync option. That'd be bit-perfect playback up to 24 bits.
 When data are sent to device which does not support 32-bit float sample format internally, these data will have to be converted to a supported sample format (typically, 24 -bit integer), and that's where bad things may come into play, however, that's only my assumption, for I am unable to hear the difference. And I am a sound engineer with 12 years of experience in live sound/studio.

 So as for technical information - the system is playing audio for us. Files are decoded by their native decoders and Core Audio (Mac OS X audio engine) is used for playback. In case of mp3, m4a, ALAC, AAC, WAV, AIFF, CA formats, files are decoded also by Core Audio. Currently we use BASS audio library to help manage data flow and control between player and Core Audio. BASS is known to be fast, clean and byte - transparent audio library. BASS handles file reading and decoding and sends it to Core Audio. Using BASS we are able to control where the processing takes place and how helpful / harmful it is. 

 Typically those good guys who blame the sound are using players that use so called "integer mode" which allows to bypass almost all links of system audio chain, as You correctly wrote,  to decode file and send it straight to the device without conversion involved, effectively bypassing most of the goodies of Core Audio. But integer mode inherently excludes all of this stuff our users wanted us to add: effects, eq, crossfade / smooth fades, software volume control. IM is for expensive DACs, so usual listeners won't really benefit from it. I will tell You more - built-in soundcards in today's macs support float 32-bit mode natively so may even sound better than some DACs that mostly do not support it.
 
Integer mode also requires to load a file fully into memory before playing, to minimise the RF and power voltage impact of a working hard disc. That's also a problem with large files and small memory footprints - I would keep reading file from HD even if some virtual (unnoticed to me) RF of power pulses are having place. That' good enough for me but might not be enough for You. But I will tell You more - one day they will tell that reading from memory also makes voltage fluctuate, we need to read files from CPU's cache directly. That'd be fun to make real!

 Integer mode fans will never listen mp3's, however, we think VOX should play them.
 
So that's really serious question wether VOX should support Integer Mode - which hopefully makes VOX jump from "very good sound" to "absolutely good sound" for the price of having to spend lots of time adding and supporting it and making useless  lots of stuff we did previously. However VOX has some Integer Mode attributes - Sample Rate sync that allows to bypass re-sampling and Hog Mode which makes device solely available for the app, effectively bypassing system mixer.


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## Solrighal

That's an interesting post & I thank you for it. 

I have one question then.. 

Is the "sample rate sync" a good thing for sound quality? I'm using an ODAC & can't quite get my head around this.


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## kimvictor

solrighal said:


> That's an interesting post & I thank you for it.
> 
> I have one question then..
> 
> Is the "sample rate sync" a good thing for sound quality? I'm using an ODAC & can't quite get my head around this.


 
 It just allows you to save processing power... but I don't think it does much to the sound(unless you are downsampling).


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## Solrighal

kimvictor said:


> It just allows you to save processing power... but I don't think it does much to the sound(unless you are downsampling).


 
  
 OK, thanks. I still think Vox is lacking sonically though, no matter how much I like the interface.


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## perhapss

Ever going to get better support for old .cue files?
  
 I`ve been following the development of Vox for several years WAITING and WAITING.....


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## headwhacker

Since gapless playback with Bit Perfect is no longer working with iTunes 12, I needed a new music player app in Mac. Vox is the best alternative in my opinion. Simple UI. Advance features an audiophile/enthusiast need is available for music playback. Seamless transition of music library from iTunes. The UI reminds me a lot of the look and feel of Winamp on the old days of Windows PC I used to have.


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## kimvictor

headwhacker said:


> Since gapless playback with Bit Perfect is no longer working with iTunes 12, I needed a new music player app in Mac. Vox is the best alternative in my opinion. Simple UI. Advance features an audiophile/enthusiast need is available for music playback. Seamless transition of music library from iTunes. The UI reminds me a lot of the look and feel of Winamp on the old days of Windows PC I used to have.


 
 Glad you like the VOX. I wish they added more advance library management feature though. Like sort by album options. I hate using iTunes.


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## headwhacker

kimvictor said:


> Glad you like the VOX. I wish they added more advance library management feature though. Like sort by album options. I hate using iTunes.


 
 I must be lucky my sort preference is always by Artist -> Album. I hate to sort my collections by album especially if you have to scroll through a very long list. I actually find what I want quicker in Vox with it's layout than in iTunes. 
  
 The only problem I can see is the hog feature does not seem to work if I hook up my Macbook to my DAC using optical cable.


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## Solrighal

I can't think of a single reason for me to sort by album.


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## kimvictor

solrighal said:


> I can't think of a single reason for me to sort by album.


 
 How? Albums are meant to be heard as a whole...


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## kimvictor

Oh, and does anyone else have a problem with output selection?


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## Solrighal

kimvictor said:


> How? Albums are meant to be heard as a whole...




Of course. We clearly have different definitions of "sort by album" then as I would assume a complete album to be in its own folder.


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## kimvictor

solrighal said:


> Of course. We clearly have different definitions of "sort by album" then as I would assume a complete album to be in its own folder.


 
 Heh that's what I'm doing right now, but I would still like the option to do so. I feel lazy to sort them into folders at times.


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## headwhacker

kimvictor said:


> Heh that's what I'm doing right now, but I would still like the option to do so. I feel lazy to sort them into folders at times.


 
  
 The iTunes folder structure is a good starting point. Vox will import the iTunes library and sorting will be Artist then Albums.


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## headwhacker

kimvictor said:


> Glad you like the VOX. I wish they added more advance library management feature though. Like sort by album options. I hate using iTunes.


 
  
  


headwhacker said:


> The iTunes folder structure is a good starting point. Vox will import the iTunes library and sorting will be Artist then Albums.


 
  
 Actually Sort by Album is already supported in Vox. You can select it from  View Menu -> Library View -> Album


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## kimvictor

The thing is, I don't use itunes. None of my albums are in iTunes.


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## kimvictor

I am on the verge on stop using Vox due to lack of album sorting from the playlist. I don't use Loop or iTunes, so unless I manually sort all albums, it's going to annoy me forever. But with over 100 albums, it's getting harder and harder to manage. It's a shame.


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## Mediahound

I'm a new user of  Vox and like it a lot so far. Question- does it do cached playback automatically? I don't see settings for that.


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## Mediahound

kimvictor said:


> I am on the verge on stop using Vox due to lack of album sorting from the playlist. I don't use Loop or iTunes, so unless I manually sort all albums, it's going to annoy me forever. But with over 100 albums, it's getting harder and harder to manage. It's a shame.


 

 Yeah, kinda a pain. You can't even sort the iTunes playlists that it imports. Hope they fix this with an updated version.


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## perhapss

Been using this app. since the very first version and continue to enjoy it (sometimes) for it`s cross feed settings.
 But, after more micro-updates than any other payer I`ve used it STILL can`t handle a huge amount of .cue files with my old lossless files.
 Very annoying and no problem with even my older version Audirvana Plus.
  
 If you`re going to be flaunting your support for FLAC and APE files IMO why ignore the importance .cue file?
 It`s an important and fundamental feature IMO.
  
 Most of the other "developments" of this app. have been mostly meaningless (EDIT:  to me) yet this remains a problem.
  
 I realize it`s free but if it worked properly in this respect I`d gladly have paid into this project.


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## ivanflo

Has anyone tried the Loop feature? at $49 a year it appears to be reasonably priced for unlimited cloud storage/download and sync on up to 5 devices. 
  
 I am in the middle of a Tidal trial and am wondering about the performance of Loop.


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## Ryan1524

Jut found out about this wonderful tool. 
  
 So, sooo Good. Love how simple and straightforward it is. Everything works the way I expect it to, and perfectly.


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## perhapss

PLEASE fix the problems with old .cue files.
 Please!


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## cpauya

This is now my music player of choice on my Mac!  So glad it supports synchronizing the sample rate when playing.  Works wonderfully on my lossless music.
  
 Thanks much!


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## Mediahound

Is there any way to adjust custom frequencies in the EQ? I noticed VOX seems to only allow adjusting of preset frequencies in the EQ.
  
 I'm enjoying VOX these days. It sounds just as good as Amarra, IMO yet the interface is soo much better. It even has crossfade features.


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## Solrighal

I'm re-posting this from another thread..
  
 Something strange has happened to my listening experience over the last few days. I have been using JRMC as my player of choice for a few years now and, because it's an old version (and a Windows port to boot) it 'breaks' occasionally. It broke again last week and I just can't be bothered fixing it. I downloaded Vox to use until I finally do the big re-install (big because I have custom views set up that aren't simple to set up).
  
 Vox sounds better, by quite some margin. There's more detail, it's smoother & less fatigueing. I have no idea why this should be the case. I've tried Vox in the past and, although I was a big fan of the interface, it didn't seem to have the resolution of JRMC. That seems to have changed. My wife also agrees, even although she dislikes headphones generally.
  
 I should also add that I somehow missed the in-built ability for Vox to use Audio Units. This was a big issue for me in the past because I have become accustomed to using Sonarworks with my HD 650's. It's great to know I can now use Sonarworks but there's a problem. For some reason Vox seems to forget on restart which Sonarworks preset I'm using so that, if I don't select the preset before playback, the sound is way too loud. Dangerously so.
  
 Does anyone know how to fix this issue?


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## Mediahound

Has anyone done any audio quality comparisons of VOX vs. Amarra? I own both but like the VOX interface soo much better. I just wonder if I'm sacrificing anything in using it, sound quality-wise.


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## cprado

Holy crap! Swinsian is amazing! I've been looking for this very app for years. Was suffering with an ancient version of Decibel. Thank you thank you thank you!


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## EtherealPoetry

I'm still struggling to figure out how to properly add my library to it (non-iTunes).


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## Mediahound

cprado said:


> Holy ****! Swinsian is amazing! I've been looking for this very app for years. Was suffering with an ancient version of Decibel. Thank you thank you thank you!



No EQ kills it for me.


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## Krutsch

Mediahound said:


> No EQ kills it for me.



Sorry, but that is a complete troll post. Vox supports VST/AU plug-ins, and there are MANY very high quality EQ plug-ins available.

I don't use Vox, but just saying...


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## Mediahound (Jun 14, 2017)

Krutsch said:


> Sorry, but that is a complete troll post. Vox supports VST/AU plug-ins, and there are MANY very high quality EQ plug-ins available.
> 
> I don't use Vox, but just saying...



Actually it's you who is trolling. As I was clearly referring to Swinsian and even quoted that.

I would advise you next time you want to try to call someone a troll, try to know what you're talking about otherwise you come across looking like a total fool as you do now. 

That said,  VOX still does not have custom EQ, only preset frequencies you can adjust, not your own set frequencies.


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## Solrighal

Swinsian is garbage & the developer is the most unco-operative develoer I've ever interacted with. The lack of AU support, any credible internal EQ and most importantly to me, the lack of folder navigation kills it. Vox is miles ahead in every department. Still not perfect but good enough. I do wish there were a Mac equivalent of Foobar though. I'd even pay money for it.


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## perhapss

Solrighal said:


> Swinsian is garbage & the developer is the most unco-operative develoer I've ever interacted with. The lack of AU support, any credible internal EQ and most importantly to me, the lack of folder navigation kills it. Vox is miles ahead in every department. Still not perfect but good enough. I do wish there were a Mac equivalent of Foobar though. I'd even pay money for it.



cue files support is spotty at best still.


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