# ZMF Pendant by Ampsandsound; impressions, tube-rolling, and general discussions



## KPzypher

Hey folks, 

I felt bad hijacking the Verite thread for troubleshooting the Pendant, so figured I'd start a dedicated 'ZMF Pendant' thread for us to share thoughts, impressions, and some tube-rolling ideas (always fun).  

To the owners, what are your thoughts, and for those interested, what would you like to know?  




Click here for product info.

And here are some pics of custom wood chassis (camphor)


Overall, I love this sturdy tube amp.  It has unique aesthetics, solid build quality, and a good volume knob.  And this amp is powerful!  With regard to sound (please take it w/ grain of salt), I feel it's clean, fast, and not overly warm/tubey or laid back, and with the standard JJ tubes, I feel (YMMV) the sound signature gets close to some SS amps in some respect with good resolution.  It's known to run quietly, although i'm experiencing some 60hz hum at the moment (still troubleshooting).  I did get some clipping when set on fixed volume output from the DAC (M400) I've paired w/, but have yet to try w/ other DACs I own.

So far, my favorite HP/tube combination is...

ZMF Verite open on LOW-Z with the following tube setup.
Psvane 12AU7 T-II (input), Genalex Gold Lion EL84x2 (output), and Electro-Harmonix EZ81 (rectifier).
I can generally tell the difference (not always better or worse) between various input tubes and some power tubes, but not so much the rectifier tubes.

Other tubes I like are Sovtek 12AX7LPS/EL84M, JJ ECC802s, RFT EZ81.  
So far, I've tried most new production/reissues, and limited vintage tubes.  I generally didn't like the vintage tubes I've tried, but to be fair, haven't tried any uber expensive ones.

Low-Z is currently my workaround the 60hz hum, which I'm still experiencing but not as distracting as on High-Z. Power conditioner is the last thing i'm awaiting to test out before taking further actions.    

To the owners out there, what are your favorite tube set for the Pendant?

And are you guys experiencing any technical issues?

And to wrap it up, I can speak from experience that both Zach and Justin are wonderful folks and provide top-notch customer service, so rest assured you will have their full support if needed.  Since some companies are known to neglect customers post-purchase or hesitate to honor warranty, thought it was important to point that out.   

Thanks.


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## steve468

Great idea for a thread. It definitely seems like there's more and more Pendant owners on here, as ZMF in general seems to have exploded in popularity (count me as a new fan!). Here's some impressions I posted in the ampsandsound thread: "I'm just starting out with collecting, and so far I've mostly stuck with 12AU7 and 12AT7, because they have a big effect on the sound and seem to be way cheaper and more plentiful then 12AX7.

I've just today put in a RCA clear top that the internet seems to think is the best 12AU7, and yeah, hard to disagree. It seems so far to be nice and clear in the top end, tight in the bottom end, with an amazing "gritty" and textured midrange, just amazing for electric guitars. A very vivid sound.

For 12AT7, my favourite so far is a Brimar 6060 "Yellow T" that has a nice, even, clean and laid back sound, with maybe a bit of a lower end exaggeration. I also picked up a GE military tube they called a JRLV12AT7WA (phew!) that has the most neutral sound and blackest background I've come across.

I also want to mention this crazy Webcor branded 12AU7 that I took a chance on (very little info on the internet), which seems to be a Mullard from the '50s. It has a HUGE, definitely quantity over quality bass, and that textured midrange I like but multiplied by 100. It's such a unique tube compared to any others I've heard that I can only bring it out when I want extremely un-neutral sound. But man, what it does it does with maximum effort. That tube, paired with the stock JJ EL-84s to bring out the highs is my ultimate metal setup."

I've since tried Sovtek EL-84Ms, and found I like them a touch more then the stock JJs. I've also tried some of the "updated" 12a_7 variants, like the 5814A and 5755 with adapter (super cheap!) and the Pendant, or my ears, really seems to like them. Very low distortion without being boring.


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## KPzypher

steve468 said:


> Great idea for a thread. It definitely seems like there's more and more Pendant owners on here, as ZMF in general seems to have exploded in popularity (count me as a new fan!). Here's some impressions I posted in the ampsandsound thread: "I'm just starting out with collecting, and so far I've mostly stuck with 12AU7 and 12AT7, because they have a big effect on the sound and seem to be way cheaper and more plentiful then 12AX7.
> 
> I've just today put in a RCA clear top that the internet seems to think is the best 12AU7, and yeah, hard to disagree. It seems so far to be nice and clear in the top end, tight in the bottom end, with an amazing "gritty" and textured midrange, just amazing for electric guitars. A very vivid sound.
> 
> ...



Awesome.  Seems like you're having a lot of fun tube-rolling.

Have you used any 5751s w/ the Pendant?  Haven't tried those yet.

What headphones are you using with the Pendant?


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## steve468

I've definitely gotten a bit addicted to searching the dusting areas of the internet for treasure. It's funny, I've read that the Pendant doesn't change as much as other tube amps with tube rolling (I don't have much experience myself) but I find the whole character of the amp can change, from bright and even digital sounding to bass-heavy and mushy.

A 5751 is on my to-try list, because of the success I've had with 5814A and 5755. But, as with any variant of 12ax7, they seem to be so much more expensive. So, need some time to save my nickels.

I use LCD-4 and Verité Closed primarily, and have tried Focal Clear with slightly less success.


KPzypher said:


> Awesome.  Seems like you're having a lot of fun tube-rolling.
> 
> Have you used any 5751s w/ the Pendant?  Haven't tried those yet.
> 
> What headphones are you using with the Pendant?


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## KPzypher

steve468 said:


> I've definitely gotten a bit addicted to searching the dusting areas of the internet for treasure. It's funny, I've read that the Pendant doesn't change as much as other tube amps with tube rolling (I don't have much experience myself) but I find the whole character of the amp can change, from bright and even digital sounding to bass-heavy and mushy.
> 
> A 5751 is on my to-try list, because of the success I've had with 5814A and 5755. But, as with any variant of 12ax7, they seem to be so much more expensive. So, need some time to save my nickels.
> 
> I use LCD-4 and Verité Closed primarily, and have tried Focal Clear with slightly less success.



Yeah I'm getting too much noise with super sensitive cans like the Stellia even on low z.  

Justin from ampsandsound mentioned 5751s are his favorite with the Pendant.  Or maybe he said 5755... it was def. 57xx


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## steve468

KPzypher said:


> Yeah I'm getting too much noise with super sensitive cans like the Stellia even on low z.
> 
> Justin from ampsandsound mentioned 5751s are his favorite with the Pendant.  Or maybe he said 5755... it was def. 57xx


I'm sorry to hear you're having noise issues, it seems to be a bit of an issue with tube amps in general. I'm also sorry because, I don't seem to have that issue, and I have no idea why! My listening station is surrounded by every wifi and computer powered gizmo you can think of, and the only thing is if I turn up the volume to max (without music) I'll hear a hiss. I barely ever get beyond 7 or 8 o'clock with the Clears, so the hiss is not noticeable. I wish I knew what was going on so I could pass on the secret. Maybe someone else who has slain the noise issue could chime in?


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## Baldeagle58

Great to see a dedicated thread for this amp. Thanks for starting.
I have just received the amp and do have the hum issue. Have only about 15 hours on it so far so will be giving it a chance to burn in and lose that hum before considering anything further. Zach actually suggested using a 12au7 rather than the supplied 12ax7 to reduce the hum. Have a Genelex gold lion 12au7 coming to effect that change.
This is most definitely the best headphone listening that I have ever experienced. Am using the ZMF headphones and HD650 for now. I have Mr Speaker Ether flow 1.1 but have never been happy with the top end of those headphones. Will try them soon.
Will try to report further as burn in continues. In the meantime I am just enjoying reading this thread.


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## KPzypher

Baldeagle58 said:


> Great to see a dedicated thread for this amp. Thanks for starting.
> I have just received the amp and do have the hum issue. Have only about 15 hours on it so far so will be giving it a chance to burn in and lose that hum before considering anything further. Zach actually suggested using a 12au7 rather than the supplied 12ax7 to reduce the hum. Have a Genelex gold lion 12au7 coming to effect that change.
> This is most definitely the best headphone listening that I have ever experienced. Am using the ZMF headphones and HD650 for now. I have Mr Speaker Ether flow 1.1 but have never been happy with the top end of those headphones. Will try them soon.
> Will try to report further as burn in continues. In the meantime I am just enjoying reading this thread.



I have tried several different 12AU7s, but didn't seem to help.  Hope you have better luck.  I'm hoping power conditioner will solve this issue, hopefully tomorrow.

I'm also using it with HD650 and I quite like it.


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## Bhk1004

Is this an issue with multiple different tubes? I have about 20 12xx7 tubes and i get a distant high pitch "ringing" with about 75% of the tubes. Looks like its interference, and its picking up my wifi hub in the other room. If I move a wood block directly infront (without touch) of the tube the amp goes silent. This also happens when I use my hand. It doesnt actually bother me, so I havent been searching for an answer, just happened to notice when music was off and I was reaching across to adjust volume. I usually do this before turning on the amp so I missed this before. Maybe get a piece of wood/metal that you can rotate around the 12xx7 tube and see if it helps with your issue? 

I have actually ordered a black aluminum tube cover for the 12xx7 tube line that will be here in like a month from china, to see if just dropping it over the 12xx7 tube fixes this. can order immediately in the states, but its 5$ vs 15-20$ (have i mentioned it doesnt bother me? haha). Anyways good luck with resolving this issue. 

Just for reference, below is the ebay item i purchased in black to hopefully blend with the aesthetics of the amp. I am not sure if this will work, as I tested tin foil for funsies and it did nothing. But, i had a thicker aluminum piece that was able to block the ringing when placed infront of the tube. Oddly, my hand/wood seems to work best when its about 1 inch or closer to the tube. Anyways will report back if no one else tests this first. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-s...var=502703175190&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

some tubes ive tried and I like below. The highlighted blue ones below (for the tube example I have) has no RF or emi or wahtever interference it is that I am getting with my other tubes. the other 2 tubes not highlighted, i get the distant ringing sound that goes away if I use my hand.

seimen e81cc triple mica - super top end focused and the most open up top ive heard. a bit much, but for those that love that airy and top end might be worth checking out. I rotate in sometimes to just get different tonality. 
Amperex 7316 - smooth and very nice tonality. (Dead silent no ringing or interference with this tube). 
telefunken ecc82 12au7  Diamond bottom - not sure how to properly describe but it sounds very good (Dead silent no ringing or interference with this tube). 
RT 12AT7 military NOS - This one sounds nice, and is also dead silent. Nothing spectacular to point out. 
telefunken 5751 windmill getters - sounds very nice, still getting used to this have been listening for a day or 2.


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## Bhk1004

Just to note my 8ohm out is dead silent.


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## Baldeagle58

I am happy to report that replacing the 12ax7 with a Genelex Gold Lion 12au7 has reduced the hum in my unit. There is virtually no noise from the low Z output and a significant reduction from the hi Z. In fact when the A/C kicks on that is what I can hear rather than any hum.
I just put NOS Telefunken 12ax7s in the preamp in my main system and boy do they sound good. Maybe try one here? This hobby never leaves you alone does it?


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## KPzypher

Baldeagle58 said:


> I am happy to report that replacing the 12ax7 with a Genelex Gold Lion 12au7 has reduced the hum in my unit. There is virtually no noise from the low Z output and a significant reduction from the hi Z. In fact when the A/C kicks on that is what I can hear rather than any hum.
> I just put NOS Telefunken 12ax7s in the preamp in my main system and boy do they sound good. Maybe try one here? This hobby never leaves you alone does it?



Good to hear.  Which ZMF HPs are you using with the Pendant?


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## Baldeagle58

KPzypher said:


> Good to hear.  Which ZMF HPs are you using with the Pendant?


Aeolus open back.
Everyone says that the Verite/Pendant combination is the one to have. It’s a money thing for me. The Verite were over budget.
Maybe some day.


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## KPzypher

Baldeagle58 said:


> Aeolus open back.
> Everyone says that the Verite/Pendant combination is the one to have. It’s a money thing for me. The Verite were over budget.
> Maybe some day.



Doubt you're missing much.  Heard Aeolus is a nice set, very 'chill,' which I like particularly for long-sessions. 

Do you like the Genalex Gold Lion? I currently using the EL84 gold lions but have yet to try the 12AU7.  Might try that next.


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## Baldeagle58

KPzypher said:


> Doubt you're missing much.  Heard Aeolus is a nice set, very 'chill,' which I like particularly for long-sessions.
> 
> Do you like the Genalex Gold Lion? I currently using the EL84 gold lions but have yet to try the 12AU7.  Might try that next.


I have had good experience with the Genelex Gold Lion tubes in general. I used them in my preamp where they replaced JJs in the 12ax7 positions. It was a nice improvement. Also tried one in the pendant. The sound was good but it didn’t get rid of the hum. The 12au7 does significantly reduce the hum. The sound with a 12au7 verses a 12ax7 is a little more laid back but with no loss of detail. It’s certainly a personal preference thing.
Did the EL84 gold pins make much of a difference (verses the JJs) in the Penant?


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## KPzypher

Baldeagle58 said:


> I have had good experience with the Genelex Gold Lion tubes in general. I used them in my preamp where they replaced JJs in the 12ax7 positions. It was a nice improvement. Also tried one in the pendant. The sound was good but it didn’t get rid of the hum. The 12au7 does significantly reduce the hum. The sound with a 12au7 verses a 12ax7 is a little more laid back but with no loss of detail. It’s certainly a personal preference thing.
> Did the EL84 gold pins make much of a difference (verses the JJs) in the Penant?



So far so good.  Actually, I was content with the Sovtek el84m, until I started getting some sporadic high pitched ringing.  

I think the JJs sound the cleanest but not all that musical.  Gold Lions IMO add bit of weight to the music and smooth things out a bit for added enjoyment.  But since it takes a while to swap between tubes, it could all just be in my head.  😅🤣


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## Karnicopia (Aug 8, 2020)

I don't have experience with the ZMF Pendant but I think dealing with noise is similar for all tube amps and it's mainly just a difference in how clean our power and environment so I figured I'd share some of the things I've tried with my amp and to me it's been really worth it to sort these out because of the sound you get out of a tube amp is wonderful. I'd suggest trying out different outlets (For constant ground hum you may want to put the amp and dac on the same circuit at least that's what I was reading but I would mainly suggest experimenting) and I noticed a big difference replacing the amp power cable with a beefier one from ace hardware so not like an expensive audiophile cable just one with better shielding. Jinxy suggested I should try out a hospital power cable because the hospital has really high precision equipment that has to reject noise while being in close proximity to other high precision (and sometimes high power) equipment. I have not received this yet but again it was only $10 so in the grand scheme of things worth checking out. I also started out with pretty well shielded cables between my dac and amp (again not really expensive they are just monoprice but they do also seem to have good beefy shielding) and I also changed from USB to optical from my computer into the dac and that didn't reduce a buzzing or hum but overall improved the sound. I think optical more cleaned up high frequency noise from my computer which sounded different than the low frequency noise from my power and I think was a lot more subtle. The optical wasn't like removing a buzzing or hum it was more removing an overall consistent harshness to the sound that was hard to notice until it was gone but sounded a lot better to me (this has actually been one of my favorite changes probably outside the power cord).

I am also going to get a Pi2AES to get a clean signal into my dac and I can use it as a streaming or local source and I'm not expecting much improvement over optical but you can hard wire that to your network and stream or connect a local drive so it's also going to be a lot more convenient for me. There are definitely a lot of streamers that do this stuff too and probably look better but I can just put this out of the way because I don't have to interact with it and at $250 or so the it seems to have really great value and perform at a high level (you have to start looking at pretty expensive streamers to get AES connection which rejects a lot of this noise we are trying to remove). I still don't have this there is like a 3/4 week wait on the AES board but I'm pretty excited to see how it sounds. Also someone had posted a thread where they put in an Automatic Voltage Regulator ($50 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and it made the amp silent and they had a hum issue so this could be another good option but I have no experience with this. I think my problems were more intermittent and due to noise on my power lines but I may still check this out as it seems pretty reasonable and I can always return if it it doesn't do anything.

Tubes do make a big difference in noise rejection too but if you can clean up the power and signal going into the amp it will open up the different types of tubes that work well so it's worth it because some of the bad noise rejecting tubes may sound the best when the noise is sorted. I think I have noticed a case of this on the GOTL there are gec 6j5 that are really highly regarded and sound wonderful but really do not do any help if there is noise in the signal where the GE 6j5 metal tubes reject noise like nobody's business (and still sound pretty great too so I do really like these).


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## KPzypher

Karnicopia said:


> I don't have experience with the ZMF Pendant but I think dealing with noise is similar for all tube amps and it's mainly just a difference in how clean our power and environment so I figured I'd share some of the things I've tried with my amp and to me it's been really worth it to sort these out because of the sound you get out of a tube amp is wonderful. I'd suggest trying out different outlets (For constant ground hum you may want to put the amp and dac on the same circuit at least that's what I was reading but I would mainly suggest experimenting) and I noticed a big difference replacing the amp power cable with a beefier one from ace hardware so not like an expensive audiophile cable just one with better shielding. Jinxy suggested I should try out a hospital power cable because the hospital has really high precision equipment that has to reject noise while being in close proximity to other high precision (and sometimes high power) equipment. I have not received this yet but again it was only $10 so in the grand scheme of things worth checking out. I also started out with pretty well shielded cables between my dac and amp (again not really expensive they are just monoprice but they do also seem to have good beefy shielding) and I also changed from USB to optical from my computer into the dac and that didn't reduce a buzzing or hum but overall improved the sound. I think optical more cleaned up high frequency noise from my computer which sounded different than the low frequency noise from my power and I think was a lot more subtle. The optical wasn't like removing a buzzing or hum it was more removing an overall consistent harshness to the sound that was hard to notice until it was gone but sounded a lot better to me (this has actually been one of my favorite changes probably outside the power cord).
> 
> I am also going to get a Pi2AES to get a clean signal into my dac and I can use it as a streaming or local source and I'm not expecting much improvement over optical but you can hard wire that to your network and stream or connect a local drive so it's also going to be a lot more convenient for me. There are definitely a lot of streamers that do this stuff too and probably look better but I can just put this out of the way because I don't have to interact with it and at $250 or so the it seems to have really great value and perform at a high level (you have to start looking at pretty expensive streamers to get AES connection which rejects a lot of this noise we are trying to remove). I still don't have this there is like a 3/4 week wait on the AES board but I'm pretty excited to see how it sounds. Also someone had posted a thread where they put in an Automatic Voltage Regulator ($50 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and it made the amp silent and they had a hum issue so this could be another good option but I have no experience with this. I think my problems were more intermittent and due to noise on my power lines but I may still check this out as it seems pretty reasonable and I can always return if it it doesn't do anything.
> 
> Tubes do make a big difference in noise rejection too but if you can clean up the power and signal going into the amp it will open up the different types of tubes that work well so it's worth it because some of the bad noise rejecting tubes may sound the best when the noise is sorted. I think I have noticed a case of this on the GOTL there are gec 6j5 that are really highly regarded and sound wonderful but really do not do any help if there is noise in the signal where the GE 6j5 metal tubes reject noise like nobody's business (and still sound pretty great too so I do really like these).



Thanks for the tips.  Unfortunately, I've tried everything you've mentioned and many others except for using a streamer.  But that shouldn't matter as the hum is still there with all input disconnected.  I even purchased a power conditioner (Furman Elite 15i) just to make sure I'm getting clean power.

Wanted to avoid this but I'm sending the unit back to Justin to get it tested.  Hopefully its a hardware issue and a quick fix.  I've sunk a lot of money trying to make it work, so hopefully it comes back with a good news.  Like you said, it sounds wonderful and I want to make it work.  So more to follow.


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## zach915m (Aug 8, 2020)

One thing about tube amps is that they are just never going to be as quiet as solid state amps regardless of price.  As many of you know, I absolutely love tube amps!  I own amps from DNA, Eddie Current, Glenn, Feliks and ofcourse ampsandsound, they are pretty quiet, but all of them vary based on what tubes and what is around them as well as their power and output impedance.

What I would categorize as "acceptable" noise from a tube amp would be anything that doesn't interact with the music.  If you're plugging a tube amp in (a full tube amp not a hybrid) and expecting it to be as quiet as your solid state gear that's just never going to happen, but that being said, usually the noise is quite low and especially on the low Z outs of my tube amps you have to be looking for it to find it instead of listening to music.

The other downside is that there are many factors and finicky bits about tube amps that make them pick up noise, this is part of the enjoyment for me, but I also realize a lot of people just want to plug and play which is understandable!  @ampsandsound and I tried to make the Pendant as plug and play as a tube amp could possibly be, but none-the-less some trouble shooting is needed sometimes, here's what I typically recommend.

1. Isolate the power plug away from other plugs, consider using a monster HTS strip, you can get them on ebay for like 30 bucks usually. *By the way I really recommend the monster HTS strips, for whatever reason they have worked better than many audiophile units I have tried at just getting rid of noise. It's also cheaper than most audiophile options!*

2. Isolate the USB out so that you are using something that is non usb - this doesn't always cause an issue - but can.

3. Get wifi signal away from the amp, routers and or laptops using wifi can be problematic.

4. Use a 12au7 tube instead of 12ax7.

5. Try unplugging the RCA's to make sure the dac/system isn't bringing noise into the system.

As @KPzypher mentioned though - if you can't get the amp as quiet as you want, we are always happy to check the amp out and make sure nothing is going on, worst case scenario it costs a few bucks for shipping but you'll know that your amp is in good shape!  There are a ton of variables in each environment that can make a piece of gear make noise, so sometimes it's impossible for us to diagnose without checking out the amp to make sure that's not the issue.

Regardless of all this I am a big proponent of tube amps, those of us who like to mess around with different tubes, output impedance and sonic characteristics will have exponentially more fun and sonic joy than when using similar solid state gear. That's not to say I don't love solid state amps, but if I'm relaxing instead of measuring and testing I'm almost always using a tube amp!


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## KPzypher

zach915m said:


> One thing about tube amps is that they are just never going to be as quiet as solid state amps regardless of price.  As many of you know, I absolutely love tube amps!  I own amps from DNA, Eddie Current, Glenn, Feliks and ofcourse ampsandsound, they are pretty quiet, but all of them vary based on what tubes and what is around them as well as their power and output impedance.
> 
> What I would categorize as "acceptable" noise from a tube amp would be anything that doesn't interact with the music.  If you're plugging a tube amp in ( a full tube amp not a hybrid) and expecting it to be as quiet as your solid state gear that's just never going to happen, but that being said, usually the noise is quite low and especially on the low Z outs of my tube amps you have to be looking for it to find it instead of listening to music.
> 
> ...




Thanks @zach915m!  As always, appreciate your input, advise, and assistance.  I understand the acceptable 'noise' regarding tube amps.  If High-z wasn't completely unusable, I would've just stayed on the low gain tap, as the Verite sounds quite nice on Low-Z.  But I'm getting some hum on Low-z as well on HPs like HD650.  During the day with ambient noise, it's somewhat manageable (definitely noticeable), but at night when things quiet down, it gets quite distracting.

I can say with confidence that I've taken all measures recommended by Zach, Justin, and other members on this forum without any luck.

I hope it's an isolated issue as the Pendant otherwise sound 'magical.'  And you're absolutely right about the 'fun part' of having a tube amp.  I love the fact that the Pendant doesn't cost you a fortune to tube-roll unlike some amps in this price range.  And did I mention how powerful it is??    This will be my go-to for all high impedance cans in the future.


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## Bhk1004

says tube rolling is cheap... in for about 1k into tubes on the pendant... goes to corner and cries...


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## KPzypher

Bhk1004 said:


> says tube rolling is cheap... in for about 1k into tubes on the pendant... goes to corner and cries...



Well if you stay away from expensive NOS/vintage tubes that is 😅🤣😆


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## Polygonhell

KPzypher said:


> Low-Z is currently my workaround the 60hz hum, which I'm still experiencing but not as distracting as on High-Z. Power conditioner is the last thing i'm awaiting to test out before taking further actions.



Mine has exactly the same issue, went back to Justin, he tested it and sent it back, didn’t fix it.
I think the issue is environmental, I tried everything short of a power regenerator, lifted ground, isolation transformer, humX, Furman power conditioner.
I’m not even certain the issue is the power at this point, it might be, looking at my mains on a scope it’s not ideal, and none of the devices listed address the fundamental issues, but the amp is also Very susceptible to RF interference.
I just got a DNA Stratus, it like every other tube amp I own except the Pendant it’s dead silent.
It’s frustrating, I kept the amp on the basis on the Low Impedance output.


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## Bhk1004 (Aug 8, 2020)

Try to see if using a slab of wood/metal and rotate it around the 12xx7 tube. Thats the tube I have noticed gets all of my interference. If that helps the "hum" at all, then you can get a cover or maybe a small cut of a pipe to slide over your tube. I did not notice a hum, but did get a really high pitch ringing that could be blocked if something was in the direction that the interference was coming from (hand/salire xD). Mine specifically seems to be picking up the wifi hub in the other room.

It seems to be a generally known issue with that tube family, and apparently guitar amps and such have been known to have tube covers for these tubes preinstalled to minimize interference.


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## Polygonhell

Bhk1004 said:


> Try to see if using a slab of wood/metal and rotate it around the 12xx7 tube. Thats the tube I have noticed gets all of my interference. If that helps the "hum" at all, then you can get a cover or maybe a small cut of a pipe to slide over your tube. I did not notice a hum, but did get a really high pitch ringing that could be blocked if something was in the direction that the interference was coming from (hand/salire xD). Mine specifically seems to be picking up the wifi hub in the other room.
> 
> It seems to be a generally known issue with that tube family, and apparently guitar amps and such have been known to have tube covers for these tubes preinstalled to minimize interference.



Tried valve covers, no dice.
mine also picked up my WiFi, but that’s more of a crackle than the hum, I resolved that by moving the amp.


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## KPzypher

Polygonhell said:


> Tried valve covers, no dice.
> mine also picked up my WiFi, but that’s more of a crackle than the hum, I resolved that by moving the amp.



Yeah the crackle and high pitched ringing are all easily fixed.  The low hum is what kills me.  

Out of the ones you haven't tried, I tried the ground lift and the Furman conditioner, and no luck.

If the Pendant didn't sound so darn good, I would've sold it already, but man does it sound good.  So far, I'm determined to make it work.


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## Bhk1004

Sucks guys. Hope you guys figure it out. I got nothing...


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## steve468

Sorry to change the subject from the noise issue, I'm sure it's frustrating, but I was wondering if anyone has had some experience with trying out tube types that are not specifically mentioned in the specs. In this thread we talked already about the 5755, which I wouldn't know or trust without knowing the recommendation came from the amp designer himself (and it's one of my faves!). I've since been reading about other tubes that could be compatible, but not having much experience with tube amps, I'm unsure of what could happen. Specifically, has anyone tried a pair of 6094 (apparently EL84-ish, but needs an adapter) or a 12BH7? Is there a way to tell if they are compatible, and how much damage can I do if I plug in a tube that the amp doesn't like?


----------



## attmci

KPzypher said:


> Yeah the crackle and high pitched ringing are all easily fixed.  The low hum is what kills me.
> 
> Out of the ones you haven't tried, I tried the ground lift and the Furman conditioner, and no luck.
> 
> If the Pendant didn't sound so darn good, I would've sold it already, but man does it sound good.  So far, I'm determined to make it work.


 The low hum is from both sides or single side?

Have you tried other tubes?


----------



## Polygonhell

attmci said:


> The low hum is from both sides or single side?
> 
> Have you tried other tubes?



The hum on mine is uniform and completely volume independent.
yes tried probably 1/2 a dozen sets of el84’s, 3 or 4 12AU7’s and 2 or 3 rectifiers.


----------



## KPzypher

attmci said:


> The low hum is from both sides or single side?
> 
> Have you tried other tubes?



Yep both sides.  And I've tried numerous tubes.


----------



## KPzypher

steve468 said:


> Sorry to change the subject from the noise issue, I'm sure it's frustrating, but I was wondering if anyone has had some experience with trying out tube types that are not specifically mentioned in the specs. In this thread we talked already about the 5755, which I wouldn't know or trust without knowing the recommendation came from the amp designer himself (and it's one of my faves!). I've since been reading about other tubes that could be compatible, but not having much experience with tube amps, I'm unsure of what could happen. Specifically, has anyone tried a pair of 6094 (apparently EL84-ish, but needs an adapter) or a 12BH7? Is there a way to tell if they are compatible, and how much damage can I do if I plug in a tube that the amp doesn't like?
> [/Qtunes.
> 
> Yeah the 5755, Justin told me over the phone that was his favorite for the Pendant.  I trust his judgment as the designer/maker.  And sorry, don't have any experience with the other types you mentioned.


----------



## attmci

Some other suggestions:

Try the amp in your neighbors house to see if it's the  ground loop hum (dirty power).

 Fasten all the screws on the transformers.

Use a transformer cage like this:
https://www.radfordrevival.co.uk/spares-services/transformer-cages/


----------



## zach915m

attmci said:


> Some other suggestions:
> 
> Try the amp in your neighbors house to see if it's the  ground loop hum (dirty power).
> 
> ...



These are good suggestions!

I wish I had more answers for specific noise issues with tube amps.  Having gone to audio shows all over the world for ZMF - it's always been one thing or the other with tube amps and solving noise issues on the fly, and it's never the same amp or noise that I run into having to solve.  There have been times where I will just pull an amp from our table at shows if I can't get it quiet enough.

One thing I've learned to do is bring two or three sets of tubes per amp to different locations because certain tube types and makes will pick up noise from one source over the other.  Sometimes certain gear doesn't like being close to one another and then there's a plethora of other things I know we've talked about here as well.

I am lucky that in our shop and my home my amps are dead quiet when I have good tubes in them.

I know one thing I spoke to @ampsandsound about once is that different areas and locations can have voltage that is off of the needed voltage for the transformer.  So even though the amp is set for 110v, and the USA is almost always hypothetically 110V, you might get an area, house, etc etc that is coming out at 100v or maybe even 120v or anywhere in between.  Go too far off what the transformer is rated at, and you'll have a consistent ground hum.  I've experienced this first hand many times, and sometimes in the UK even.  I think the only fix is to get a noise isolator with it's own transformer in it that regulated the power back to 110v.  Maybe @ampsandsound can chime in and let me know if what I'm saying makes sense or not to the conversation we had?  Could this be what these Pendant users are running in to? Is there a surge protector or device you can use to check this and regulate it? Multimeter maybe?


----------



## Polygonhell

The standard voltage in the US is 120V, but the most common input voltage for power transformers seems to be 115V.
One thing I have not tried is shielding the power transformer, I think I have some magnetic shielding film somewhere.
I captured my mains voltage with a scope recently, I can post it if it’s actually useful, it’s far from ideal, but It’s 120V RMS, with no ground offset.
Obviously the best test would be to try the amp in a different location, but with the current situation, it’s not very practical.

back on the tube rolling topic, I didn’t really have a strong preference for any of the rectifier I tried,  the old Mullard 12AU7 was my favorite, and I ended up using Tungsram EL84’s.


----------



## ScornDefeat

How hot do your EL84s/power output tubes get in your Pendants? 

My input tube only gets mildly hot...but my powe output tubes get scorching. Probably hotter than any other tube gear I've had.


----------



## KPzypher

ScornDefeat said:


> How hot do your EL84s/power output tubes get in your Pendants?
> 
> My input tube only gets mildly hot...but my powe output tubes get scorching. Probably hotter than any other tube gear I've had.



I got burned once touching those, so I'm guessing that's normal.  The rectifier tube gets pretty hot too.


----------



## ScornDefeat

KPzypher said:


> I got burned once touching those, so I'm guessing that's normal.  The rectifier tube gets pretty hot too.



Very true, rectifier gets very hot, the output tubes get outright scorching. A very quick tap and I got burnt, they are no joke! Good to know it's not just mine haha


----------



## Polygonhell

attmci said:


> Use a transformer cage like this:



FWIW I just tried wrapping the mains transformer in the magnetic shielding film I had on hand and no impact, Noise floor is exactly the same with or without it.


----------



## ampsandsound

Hey Folks. Few tid bits... All tubes get to enough to burn off your finger prints... completely normal and why I dont have sensation in 2 fingers.
All of our power transformers are spec'd as 120V or 230V accordingly and all include shields. 
There are alot of factors that influence noise floor for which Zach listed the many.
System matching is super important with any tube amp with the Pendant included. 
The Pendant was conceived as a dual purpose amp, quiet enough for high efficiency headphones and powerful enough for planers.
Using the low z will likely provide the lowest noise floor and most base grip whereas the High Z will give a lighter/more dynamic sound. 
If noise is a principal concern, the low z is the very best chose. 

One last thing.... I love JJ ECC99s on the Pendant... I also enjoy Japanese Mullard 12AU7s.


----------



## steve468

ampsandsound said:


> Hey Folks. Few tid bits... All tubes get to enough to burn off your finger prints... completely normal and why I dont have sensation in 2 fingers.
> All of our power transformers are spec'd as 120V or 230V accordingly and all include shields.
> There are alot of factors that influence noise floor for which Zach listed the many.
> System matching is super important with any tube amp with the Pendant included.
> ...


Do you use the JJ ECC99 in place of EL84s? I’m not familiar with that tube, and online descriptions make it sound like it can be used anywhere depending on the application. Thanks for the input!


----------



## ScornDefeat

steve468 said:


> Do you use the JJ ECC99 in place of EL84s? I’m not familiar with that tube, and online descriptions make it sound like it can be used anywhere depending on the application. Thanks for the input!



The JJ ECC99 is a preamp tube, it would replace the 12AX7/ECC83.


----------



## KPzypher

ampsandsound said:


> Hey Folks. Few tid bits... All tubes get to enough to burn off your finger prints... completely normal and why I dont have sensation in 2 fingers.
> All of our power transformers are spec'd as 120V or 230V accordingly and all include shields.
> There are alot of factors that influence noise floor for which Zach listed the many.
> System matching is super important with any tube amp with the Pendant included.
> ...



Thanks Justin for you input. 

I thought 12BH7/ECC99s draw quite a bit more current?  Is it safe to use on a Pendant??

What other input tubes are compatible w/ the Pendant besides the 12xx7 series?  

Thanks again.


----------



## ampsandsound

We have tried without issue but can’t recommend formally yet. Need to do a bit more testing.  The Mullard 12au7 that was made in Japan is remarkable as well.


----------



## KPzypher

ampsandsound said:


> We have tried without issue but can’t recommend formally yet. Need to do a bit more testing.  The Mullard 12au7 that was made in Japan is remarkable as well.



👍 Do let us know.  I just ordered one after your last message lol 😆 😂 😅 🤣 🙃 😄


----------



## ampsandsound

What I use almost exclusively in my pre and my amps are Sylvania black plate 12ax7 or 5751s, not gray, But black plate.  For me, that’s where my journey ends. Such a good tube.

That said, I’ll test this week and report back.


----------



## ampsandsound

ECC99 and 12BH7 are compatible


----------



## KPzypher

ampsandsound said:


> ECC99 and 12BH7 are compatible



Thanks Justin.  My wallet wouldn't agree, but good to know we have more options.


----------



## Celty

zach915m said:


> 1. Isolate the power plug away from other plugs, consider using a monster HTS strip, you can get them on ebay for like 30 bucks usually. *By the way I really recommend the monster HTS strips, for whatever reason they have worked better than many audiophile units I have tried at just getting rid of noise. It's also cheaper than most audiophile options!*


Apparently, the Monster HTS strips have been discontinued.


----------



## zach915m

Celty said:


> Apparently, the Monster HTS strips have been discontinued.



I usually buy them on eBay - they seem to be around 30 to 60 bucks depending on the seller.  Did they replace them with something newer and cooler?


----------



## Celty

zach915m said:


> I usually buy them on eBay - they seem to be around 30 to 60 bucks depending on the seller.  Did they replace them with something newer and cooler?


Not that I have seen listed on their website


----------



## ScornDefeat

Where are you guys typically leaving your volume pot at for nornal listening volume on your Pendant?

Using the stock JJ 12AX7, with my Auteur on the low-z tap, I'm typically at 3-4 o'clock for solid listening volume. Atticus on the high-z is around 12-1. For the stated output specs, I'm a bit surprised I find myself dialing it up so high. 

Additionally, my power tubes and rectifier get exceptionally hot and exhibit a beautiful glow, while the preamp/input tube barely emits any heat or glow. I've found on my other tube gear that the preamp tubes tend not to "glow" so much, but just wanted to see others' feedback on it!


----------



## Bhk1004

I have to turn down the volume on transport or pc to get my the pendant to 9 o'clock range which is where I like to be. 

I would blow my headphones out with 12ax7 at those levels. This is for aeolus.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Bhk1004 said:


> I have to turn down the volume on transport or pc to get my the pendant to 9 o'clock range which is where I like to be.
> 
> I would blow my headphones out with 12ax7 at those levels. This is for aeolus.



Wow, that's a vastly different experience than me. I have my streamer outputting 100% (fixed volume in Roon), my Chord Qutest outputting 2v, and a stock 12ax7 and yet I'm dialing it up 75%+ to 3-4 o'clock for 85db, give or take 3db. Interesting.


----------



## steve468

I also am at 9-10 o'clock AT MOST with an LCD-4 in low z and a 12au7. It's usually less. When I read your volume positions, I honestly thought your volume pot must be upside down! Something weird is going on there maybe.


----------



## Polygonhell

steve468 said:


> I also am at 9-10 o'clock AT MOST with an LCD-4 in low z and a 12au7. It's usually less. When I read your volume positions, I honestly thought your volume pot must be upside down! Something weird is going on there maybe.



Me too, Verite C usually well below 9 O’Clock.
using a 12AU7.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm definitely concerned now that something is off, especially utilizing the 12ax7 input tube (which is one of the higher gain ones available in the 12 series). I'm afraid I won't even get to listenable levels with my 12au7 and 12at7 tubes.

The thing is, the amp sounds great. The synergy with my ZMF phones is tremendous. Not as great with my planar Rosson RAD-0s, but that's a bit to be expected. Either way, nothing sounds "wrong" at all, just that I'm dialing it up a boat load of clicks to get to my volume (nothing crazy loud, either).

On Atticus, Auteur and the RAD-0s, I'm at at least 1-2 o'clock for modern rock/metal music on low-z, and sometimes approaching 5 o'clock for classic rock, folk, etc.

The Chord Qutest on the 2v output produced regular volume on my other amps, so that's not the issue. The only other variable are the RCA interconnects, which I've tested on another system but I was going from 4v balanced to 2v SE on that system, so naturally I had to dial-up the volume to match on that.

Any other ideas?


----------



## Baldeagle58

ScornDefeat said:


> Where are you guys typically leaving your volume pot at for nornal listening volume on your Pendant?
> 
> Using the stock JJ 12AX7, with my Auteur on the low-z tap, I'm typically at 3-4 o'clock for solid listening volume. Atticus on the high-z is around 12-1. For the stated output specs, I'm a bit surprised I find myself dialing it up so high.
> 
> Additionally, my power tubes and rectifier get exceptionally hot and exhibit a beautiful glow, while the preamp/input tube barely emits any heat or glow. I've found on my other tube gear that the preamp tubes tend not to "glow" so much, but just wanted to see others' feedback on it!


Not more than 9 o’clock when listening to any of my headphones (Aeolus, Mr.Speakers Ether flow1.1, HD650) via Hi Z with a 12ax7 or 12au7. Maybe 10 o’clock with the LCD2 on Low Z.
The hum in my unit has about gone with 30 hours on it. Still a slight noise with the Aeolus but almost silent with the others. I have a monster strip coming ($30) via EBay. Am hopeful that this will completely kill what is left of that hum.
I put in a 12au7 (Genelex gold pin or RCA clear top), tightened all of the screws down (most were pretty tight already but a few had a quarter turn in them), and just played the amp. It seems to have worked.
Am now just happily listening to the music. Thanks for all the tips Zack.


----------



## Bhk1004

12ax7 at 100% transport volume is fairly loud at like 7 o'clock on my aeolus. Do you have other tubes to test? I am wonder if you tubes are failing? Are your cables all the way in?


----------



## zach915m

ScornDefeat said:


> Wow, that's a vastly different experience than me. I have my streamer outputting 100% (fixed volume in Roon), my Chord Qutest outputting 2v, and a stock 12ax7 and yet I'm dialing it up 75%+ to 3-4 o'clock for 85db, give or take 3db. Interesting.



Do you have a stepped attenuator in yours? Those have a slower volume gradient but just as much power.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Bhk1004 said:


> 12ax7 at 100% transport volume is fairly loud at like 7 o'clock on my aeolus. Do you have other tubes to test? I am wonder if you tubes are failing? Are your cables all the way in?



I do, have a matched pair of NOS EL84s, a NOS rectifier and a whole load of NOS 12-series and related. However, I haven't even gotten close to breaking-in the Pendant yet and was hoping to run the stock tubes for a while first before rolling in.

The interesting thing is...other than me having to crank up the volume pot, no perceivable issues. No channel imbalance, very low noise floor, no funky sounds; just a great, powerful tube amp sound. With interconnect defects (I checked and made sure mine were plugged in tight), I'd expect some sort of imbalance or funk, but none of that. 

Does your input/preamp tube emit a strong glow like the output tubes do? My 12ax7 barely glows and doesn't get very hot.


----------



## Bhk1004

ScornDefeat said:


> I do, have a matched pair of NOS EL84s, a NOS rectifier and a whole load of NOS 12-series and related. However, I haven't even gotten close to breaking-in the Pendant yet and was hoping to run the stock tubes for a while first before rolling in.
> 
> The interesting thing is...other than me having to crank up the volume pot, no perceivable issues. No channel imbalance, very low noise floor, no funky sounds; just a great, powerful tube amp sound. With interconnect defects (I checked and made sure mine were plugged in tight), I'd expect some sort of imbalance or funk, but none of that.
> 
> Does your input/preamp tube emit a strong glow like the output tubes do? My 12ax7 barely glows and doesn't get very hot.


I havent touched but it seems less hot than the rest? And the glow depends on the tube. Some tubes dont even glow.


----------



## KPzypher

I'm never past 9 on mine, usually well below.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Thanks for all the feedback, everybody. Really appreciate it. The good news is...the amp sounds great. Pairs veryyyy well with the Atticus and Auteur and I'm having no noise issues at all on the low-z and only very feint increase in noise floor on the high-z.

I'll continue to play around, roll tubes in, etc.

Thanks!


----------



## Bhk1004

ScornDefeat said:


> Thanks for all the feedback, everybody. Really appreciate it. The good news is...the amp sounds great. Pairs veryyyy well with the Atticus and Auteur and I'm having no noise issues at all on the low-z and only very feint increase in noise floor on the high-z.
> 
> I'll continue to play around, roll tubes in, etc.
> 
> Thanks!


Did u see zach's post asking if you have a different knob?


----------



## ScornDefeat

Bhk1004 said:


> Did u see zach's post asking if you have a different knob?



I didn't notice it but now I see it, thanks for pointing it out!

My volume knob has the wonderfully satisfying "clicks" of 23-steps of attentuation, so it indeed is a stepped attenuator. I didn't realize that there was so much extra "play" on the knob with stepped attenuators. This seems to be the explanation then. 

Most Pendants are standard Alps potentiometers?

Thanks Zach for chiming in, thank you all for the help, appreciate it! Going to continue loving the Pendant, worry-free haha.


----------



## Bhk1004

This is unacceptable! Where are my clicks!!!!! 

But yes mine is just a smooth glide, no clicks.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Bhk1004 said:


> This is unacceptable! Where are my clicks!!!!!
> 
> But yes mine is just a smooth glide, no clicks.



Send it back! Pay a few hundred extra buckaroos for a DACT, and enjoy the clicksssss


----------



## KPzypher

ScornDefeat said:


> I didn't notice it but now I see it, thanks for pointing it out!
> 
> My volume knob has the wonderfully satisfying "clicks" of 23-steps of attentuation, so it indeed is a stepped attenuator. I didn't realize that there was so much extra "play" on the knob with stepped attenuators. This seems to be the explanation then.
> 
> ...



Wasn't aware stepped attenuator is an option.


----------



## zach915m (Aug 14, 2020)

ScornDefeat said:


> I didn't notice it but now I see it, thanks for pointing it out!
> 
> My volume knob has the wonderfully satisfying "clicks" of 23-steps of attentuation, so it indeed is a stepped attenuator. I didn't realize that there was so much extra "play" on the knob with stepped attenuators. This seems to be the explanation then.
> 
> ...





KPzypher said:


> Wasn't aware stepped attenuator is an option.



We tried the stepped attenuator out on a few units because someone requested it.  We will be adding that as standard along with a wooden volume knob (that can be retrofit) to the Pendant which will come along with a little bit of a price increase to the amp starting next year (Jan 1).  Your unit with the stepped attenuator was likely one of the two demo units we used to test it out with - the real improvement of the stepped attenuator is that slower volume gradation where you can use the full bandwidth all the way up without it getting too loud until the very top of the knob.  Sonically the sound is the same.

The amp will still be discounted for ZMF owners and when bought in bundles even with the price increase though.  More details as we get closer to that.  The general bones of the amp are not changing.


----------



## ScornDefeat (Aug 14, 2020)

Great insignt, Zach, appreciate it.

For my money, the stepped attenuator is a worthy expenditure. But, it's not for everyone, I feel, as well. I like them a lot. This one, in particular, gives more bandwidth on the knob than I've ever had, which is why I was surprised!

The ALPS pots have a plus to them, though, as well, much more fine volume control, as far as "smoothly" increasing volume. With a potentiometer, you can really dial-in your desired volume. With 23-steps of attenuation, you will find times that you're stuck picking between two volumes, with neither being perfect. The trade is that low volumes seem to be pretty consistent and uniform with the channels, and you get more bandwidth on the knob.

I am willing to pay an extra $200 or so for the stepped attenuator, although I'd prefer 41-stepped options the 23-stepped one is good to me, because I like the feel of them and that consistency across the whole knob range over potentiometers.


----------



## Virion

Hello all, this is my first post here on head fi. Usually just reading everything. But this thread had changed my mind as I have been enjoying my zmf pendant with eikon. As more people have stated, I also have a slight hum to content with. Wanted to try the tightening of the screws option, but non of my tools fit. I have one that fits the smaller screws, but not the larger ones on the Transformers and on the corners of the chassis. 
Can anybody tell me the size of the screws? Afraid this will this be a eu vs usa size issue.


----------



## Baldeagle58

I have a set of what are known as “Allen keys” (not sure if that is a US term or if it is universal) which I bought years ago for a few dollars in the local hardware store. There was a fit for all of the screws in that little kit. Realize this is a poor response and would think that you will get a proper answer from Zack or the ampandsound guys as to the exact size.
The hum on my unit went away based on burn in and going from a 12ax7 to a 12au7 I think. Tightening the screws down may have been a contributing factor. How many hours have you got on your amp so far?
Happy listening and welcome aboard.


----------



## Virion

Thank you for the response. 
We have something similar in the EU, but i see that there is an imperial (inch) version and an mertric (mm) version. Amazon has a set which contains both versions which ill most likely buy. The hum is mostly on the right side, and when i push down on the transformer on the right the hum is more universially distributed across the soundstage. 

I have been using the pendant for about a year, which constitutes about 500 hours. Been using different tubes and the hum stays the same. But no hum when music is playing so its not a breaking point. Been really enjoying a ecc82 amperex the last couple of months.


----------



## Bhk1004

alright, after a bajillion tubes, below is my current favorite setup.

Mullard cv4003
U709 / 6CA4 / EZ81 Mullard 1950s square getter 
6BQ5/EL84 Mullard 1950s square getter


----------



## steve468

I have a good selection of EL84 pairs on hand now, so I thought I'd write some impressions for those that are looking for a different combination in the Pendant.

For reference, to my ears the stock JJs are the brightest set by far, and have a brittle, digital sort of sound to them. Not bad, but not my taste.

Genelex Gold Lion (new production): I find these to be similar to the JJs, with just a little more heft in the bass. Also fairly digital sounding. These get good reviews for new tubes, and I was somewhat disappointed.

Sovtek EL84M (new production): These are my favourite new tubes. They have the most natural, realistic sound of the new tubes I've tried, though they are rather shy on the top end. Perfectly fine.

Sylvania branded Baldwin blackplates, 1951: These have a nice bright uncluttered sound, but still smooth. They do have a fair amount of, I guess it's distortion, which give them an old timey sort of sound if that makes sense. I guess they sound of their era. 

Mullard 1950's square getter: Lots of internet people say that Mullards are they're favourite tubes, and I can see why. They have a unique sort of pillow-y softness to them, like all the edges of sounds have been rounded. Is that what people are talking about when they say Mullards have a liquid midrange? Otherwise, they're quite neutral.

Uknown Baldwin branded, made in Japan: These are what came in the vintage set from ZMF. From what I can tell, probably they're Matsushita? These have a similar tonality to the Mullards, maybe just a bit brighter, a bit less soft sounding.

Tungsram: Clean, clear, neutral, great open 3D soundstage. These are great if you just want to hear the recording without any colouration.

thetubestore.com Preferred Series 7189: I really didn't know what to expect from these, and only bought them because thetubestore.com is local to me, and the price is right. The website says they're just selected  6P14P-EV from the 80's, which don't seem to get a lot of love overall. However, I have been absolutely blown away by these. Almost as open and clear as the Tungsrams, but with a very forward, detailed midrange that I just absolutely love. They do miss a bit on the top end, but that can be solved with a pre-amp tube. These with LCD-4 give me the best electric guitar sound I have ever heard.

Note that I listen with already pretty dark headphones, so that could be why I generally prefer the more neutral and brighter tubes to the Mullards. Hopefully someone finds this info useful!


----------



## KPzypher (Sep 2, 2020)

steve468 said:


> I have a good selection of EL84 pairs on hand now, so I thought I'd write some impressions for those that are looking for a different combination in the Pendant.
> 
> For reference, to my ears the stock JJs are the brightest set by far, and have a brittle, digital sort of sound to them. Not bad, but not my taste.
> 
> ...



I'm sticking with Genelex Gold Lions for now.  I do like the Sovtek EL84Ms, but switched them out after occasional ringing.  The vintage tubes I received are a pair of RCA black plates, but nothing really stood out.  I agree with your assessment regarding the  JJs.  Speaking of JJ tubes, on the input side, I tried the ECC99 and really like them.  However, it only sounded good on high-Z.  On low-Z it rather sounded thin and less dynamic.  Too bad High-z is unusable for me due to loud low level hum.  So i'm sticking with the PSVANE 12au7-TII for now on that front.  I've tried more than dozen different input tubes and they all either didn't sound good or were noisy.  For reference, I used VO for tube rolling.


----------



## steve468

I've also tried the ECC99, and find it much more to my taste than the other JJ tubes. Maybe the most clear, neutral tube I've heard, without that brittle harshness of other JJs. For the price, it is a highly livable tube even compared to many more expensive NOS. 

I've been curious about the Psvane tubes, as they're the most expensive and therefore obviously best new production (sarcasm!). How would you describe the sound?


----------



## KPzypher

steve468 said:


> I've also tried the ECC99, and find it much more to my taste than the other JJ tubes. Maybe the most clear, neutral tube I've heard, without that brittle harshness of other JJs. For the price, it is a highly livable tube even compared to many more expensive NOS.
> 
> I've been curious about the Psvane tubes, as they're the most expensive and therefore obviously best new production (sarcasm!). How would you describe the sound?



Price wasn't a determining factor.  It sounded best, for me, out of all the 12au7s i've tested, and the least noisy.

It sounds similar to tung-sol ecc803s gold pins, which I really like, but again, couldn't use it because of noise.  It's punchy with some good weight, and very clean but not thin/brittle like the JJs.  Out of all the 12au7s i've tested, I like it the most.  For me, the 12AU7s usually sound too soft or a bit mushy (e.g. new production Mullard) compared to 12ax7s.


----------



## Polygonhell

steve468 said:


> Tungsram: Clean, clear, neutral, great open 3D soundstage. These are great if you just want to hear the recording without any colouration.



There are what I ended up using, the EI El84's are similar though not quite as nice and a bit cheaper.
I also like the PSVane El84's, but they take forever to burn in and change pretty radically over the burn in time.


----------



## Baldeagle58

I have a tube question that I have read quite aa but about on the forums but am still confused about. 
Can you use a 7058 tube as the output tube on the pendant??  It is a 12ax7 family tube but does not work in some preamps apparently. I tried it in the Pendant and it did work. The sound was very detailed but very slightly on the bright side. I don’t want to damage the amp so have pulled it out for now. Anyone have any sage advice in regards to this tube?


----------



## ampsandsound

A 7058 is a pre tube not an output. It looks interesting but isn’t compatible with the pendant as it exceed 12.6 fil.  Looks like it wants 13+ for its filaments.  
You might think about any 5751. Sylvania made exceptionally good ones.


----------



## Baldeagle58

ampsandsound said:


> A 7058 is a pre tube not an output. It looks interesting but isn’t compatible with the pendant as it exceed 12.6 fil.  Looks like it wants 13+ for its filaments.
> You might think about any 5751. Sylvania made exceptionally good ones.


Thanks for your swift response.
I will try to find a Sylvania 5751 at a reasonable price. In the meantime I am using either an RCA cleartop 12AU7 or Genelex Lion goldpin 12AU7.
Changing out the JJ EL84s for Tungsrams has been a major improvement especially in terms of the hum issue in my unit. With Tungsrams that noise is just about gone on hiZ.
Thanks again.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Sep 20, 2020)

@ampsandsound / @zach915m

Just curious - Any preamp tube in the 12A_7 family with 12AU7 pinout, that use 250v plate voltage and 150mA heater current is ok to run in the Pendant, yes? 
(The 12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AY7, ECC81, CV4024, 6201, 7728, ECC801, E81CC...)

I see some tubes that are 150V plate or 225mA heater (or both), like the 12AZ7, 5965, 6829, 12AV7, etc.     Are those a no-no, or good to go?

Is there anything else we should be looking at (other plate/heater V/mA) to identify compatible tubes?  Or more importantly, incompatible tubes?

(I know the Mu of the tubes I listed are all over the place.)

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to make sure I don't plug anything in which is bad on the amp.

Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## ProfFalkin

ProfFalkin said:


> @ampsandsound / @zach915m
> 
> Just curious - Any preamp tube in the 12A_7 family with 12AU7 pinout, that use 250v plate voltage and 150mA heater current is ok to run in the Pendant, yes?
> (The 12AU7, 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AY7, ECC81, CV4024, 6201, 7728, ECC801, E81CC...)
> ...



/bump   

Hi Justin!  =)   How ya doin?

@ampsandsound 

Thanks.


----------



## ampsandsound

Im not sure Id be the greatest help.
If anyone has a tube substitution book handy we could explore. 
Since my move, I can't find half my books.


----------



## ProfFalkin

ampsandsound said:


> Im not sure Id be the greatest help.
> If anyone has a tube substitution book handy we could explore.
> Since my move, I can't find half my books.


There are a variety of substitution books available for free that I found on the web.  It doesn't explore why they are compatible unfortunately.

I attached one, and the data sheets for the 12AU/X/T7 valves.

If I knew what to look for, I could do the research and share it here.


----------



## Skyediver

ProfFalkin said:


> There are a variety of substitution books available for free that I found on the web.  It doesn't explore why they are compatible unfortunately.
> 
> I attached one, and the data sheets for the 12AU/X/T7 valves.
> 
> If I knew what to look for, I could do the research and share it here.



Amazing; thanks for sharing!  

I’m likely to get my Verite & Pendant order sometime next month (I think), and I like the idea of researching and learning as much as I can about tube rolling, but besides lurking in forums, it’s almost like a voodoo black art that can only be learned through (I guess) experience and trial & error.  I get that, but the more analytic side of my brain pushes back a bit.  “Book learning” can also be fun!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Woot woot!   Sounds good!  Looks good!  

Thanks @zach915m !   Love the cocobolo base!  It's got character in spades!


----------



## Celty

ProfFalkin said:


> Woot woot!   Sounds good!  Looks good!
> 
> Thanks @zach915m !   Love the cocobolo base!  It's got character in spades!


Extra Sweet!


----------



## ampsandsound

That’s some pretty wood.  Love how it came out.  Nice tube choices too.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Sep 29, 2020)

ampsandsound said:


> That’s some pretty wood.  Love how it came out.  Nice tube choices too.


I'm really happy with the sound!  You can blame Zach for the great NOS tube selection.  Totally his fault.  LOL


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Found this thread today and ordered my custom wood chassis Pendant yesterday!  I'm pretty excited!  I'll be using the Pendant with the VC.


----------



## nwavesailor

A little dusty but great little hp amp!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

That wood is beautiful!  I'm really looking forward to getting mine.  Looks like I have the same glass shelf and glad to see it will fit.


----------



## Jazz du Look

Looking for a bit of advice from Pendant owners. Have any of you used your Pendant with a dap player directly hooked up?  I’d be really interested in knowing what the results were/are like. I’m trying to create a compact little system for night time listening. Vinyl guy here, with analog experience only!


----------



## ScornDefeat

Jazz du Look said:


> Looking for a bit of advice from Pendant owners. Have any of you used your Pendant with a dap player directly hooked up?  I’d be really interested in knowing what the results were/are like. I’m trying to create a compact little system for night time listening. Vinyl guy here, with analog experience only!



If it's capable of 2v single-ended line-out (most aren't), then it would totally fine to do and easy. Otherwise, there's still options but you have to get a bit more creative. 

Which DAP are you using?


----------



## Jazz du Look

ScornDefeat said:


> If it's capable of 2v single-ended line-out (most aren't), then it would totally fine to do and easy. Otherwise, there's still options but you have to get a bit more creative.
> 
> Which DAP are you using?


Thanks for helping out. I’ve yet to get a DAP. Thought I wouldn’t get one until I knew what I needed. I was thinking of an Android based one so that I could use Tidal and Mixcloud etc. I liked the look of the Hiby R6 pro but I’m not set on that. Recommendations gratefully received. Budget flexible.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Jazz du Look said:


> Thanks for helping out. I’ve yet to get a DAP. Thought I wouldn’t get one until I knew what I needed. I was thinking of an Android based one so that I could use Tidal and Mixcloud etc. I liked the look of the Hiby R6 pro but I’m not set on that. Recommendations gratefully received. Budget flexible.



The Hiby R6 Pro is a solid choice, I feel. It has a 3.5mm Line Out, which you can (with adapters) convert to RCA. The line out bypasses the volume control (good thing) and looks like it can do 2v. 

Something like this would get the job done for you:

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...ocphy=9003488&hvtargid=pla-299948918055&psc=1


----------



## Jazz du Look

ScornDefeat said:


> The Hiby R6 Pro is a solid choice, I feel. It has a 3.5mm Line Out, which you can (with adapters) convert to RCA. The line out bypasses the volume control (good thing) and looks like it can do 2v.
> 
> Something like this would get the job done for you:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...ocphy=9003488&hvtargid=pla-299948918055&psc=1


Thanks again. Yeah, just checked the Hiby specs and it outputs at 2.1. So good.


----------



## ampsandsound

Id suggest getting a Bluetooth to RCA box and then run RCA from the streamer to your Pendant. 
DAPs are really lovely but if streaming from your phone a streamer could be a better choice.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-blue/


----------



## Jazz du Look

ampsandsound said:


> Id suggest getting a Bluetooth to RCA box and then run RCA from the streamer to your Pendant.
> DAPs are really lovely but if streaming from your phone a streamer could be a better choice.
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-blue/


Hi ampsandsound. The DAP would be doing the streaming as I intend it, not my phone. Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?


----------



## ampsandsound

DAPs can stream but phones does this very well too. 
2 different approaches to same solution... For many, the phone and a dedicated streamer is most convient... That said, some DAPs have amazing DACs that are used.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Jazz du Look said:


> Hi ampsandsound. The DAP would be doing the streaming as I intend it, not my phone. Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?



The recommendation was to nix the DAP entirely, buy a nice wireless streamer like the Ifi Zen Blue (has RCA out), and just Bluetooth from your phone to the Zen Blue. 

Definitely a simple, streamlined option that would actually be more ergonomically intuitive than DAP to Pendant. 

DAP (like Hiby R6 Pro) to Pendant works to, though, of course.


----------



## Jazz du Look

ScornDefeat said:


> The recommendation was to nix the DAP entirely, buy a nice wireless streamer like the Ifi Zen Blue (has RCA out), and just Bluetooth from your phone to the Zen Blue.
> 
> Definitely a simple, streamlined option that would actually be more ergonomically intuitive than DAP to Pendant.
> 
> DAP (like Hiby R6 Pro) to Pendant works to, though, of course.


Yes, I understand now. Thing is I don’t want my phone anywhere near me when I’m listening to music. The potential for distraction is enormous!


----------



## KPzypher

Streamer DAC than using a cellphone as a remote to tidal is way better/faster than using a clunky DAP with weak wifi and a tiny screen.  I used to own R6 Pro.  The weak wifi signal was one of the biggest letdown for me.


----------



## KPzypher

Jazz du Look said:


> Yes, I understand now. Thing is I don’t want my phone anywhere near me when I’m listening to music. The potential for distraction is enormous!



Some DAPs may sound good but they are all clunky with poor UI and overall weak spec compared to a decent phone.  Unless you're limited by space or ultra portability is a must for you, streamer plus cellphone is way better choice IMO.


----------



## xiorath

Got a pair of ZMF VO's on the way in a few weeks and looking for some fun tubes to dive into with the Leeloo (Pendant with solid state rec) when they come in. 3D/Holographic with tight detailed bass, punchy with good detail retrieval would be nice. Don't listen to too much audiophile preferred music.. more along the lines of modern day industrial / electronica and some metal from time to time. (also on this weird crazed journey of obtaining a super immersive setup for single player gaming)
Right now I have a pair of the Sovtek EL84's and Telefunken Black Diamond 12AX7.

on my list to get so far I have:

PSVANE 12AX7-TII
JJ ECC99
Gold Lion EL84

Was curious if you guys would have any other recommendations


----------



## Virion

I’m currently using a raytheon 5751 windmill getter and really enjoying it as a good allrounder.

I suggest looking at the audiotubes website, it has good descriptions of alot of tubes sound.


----------



## xiorath

Virion said:


> I’m currently using a raytheon 5751 windmill getter and really enjoying it as a good allrounder.
> 
> I suggest looking at the audiotubes website, it has good descriptions of alot of tubes sound.



Cool! I'll give them a look. Thanks


----------



## steve468

" 3D/Holographic with tight detailed bass, punchy with good detail retrieval..." 

Sounds to me like you want Tungsram for the EL84s, and a 60's Heerlen Holland (Amperex Bugle Boy or Philips Miniwatt, for example) for the other tube.


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 19, 2020)

I second the Tungsram EL84's and have paired them with Amperex 7316 and Miniwatt with good results.
I also like the Valvo 6201 and Raytheon 7730 with the Tungsrams. Heck, ALL these combo's are really good and I would be OK with any of them!


----------



## xiorath

steve468 said:


> " 3D/Holographic with tight detailed bass, punchy with good detail retrieval..."
> 
> Sounds to me like you want Tungsram for the EL84s, and a 60's Heerlen Holland (Amperex Bugle Boy or Philips Miniwatt, for example) for the other tube.





nwavesailor said:


> I second the Tungsram EL84's and have paired them with Amperex 7316 and Miniwatt with good results.
> I also like the Valvo 6201 and Raytheon 7730 with the Tungsrams. Heck, ALL these combo's are really good and I would be OK with any of them!



Awesome! I'll grab a set of the Tungsram EL84's and keep an eye out for a Amperex bugle boy or 7316  and maybe a Raytheon while im at it, the more options the better to tune that preferred sound in just right


----------



## ampsandsound

Black plate Sylvania 6BQ5.  Think Baldwin organ pulls.


----------



## xiorath (Oct 20, 2020)

Alright, cool!
I managed to grab a bunch of them
- Tungsram EL84/6BQ5
- Gold Lion EL84/6BQ5
- Sylvania Black plate Baldwin EL84/6BQ5
- JJ ECC99
- Raytheon 5751 windmill getter
- Amperex 7316
- Psvane 12AX7-TII

Along with 5 pairs of pads for the Verite Open backs, it should keep me busy mix and matching for some time lol


----------



## Virion

For me, part of the fun is the tube rolling. Every few months I buy a new tube to try out. Its gives a new flavor to the sound. No flavor is wrong, to each their own preferences.


----------



## steve468

That’s actually a really great start. I also found Baldwin tubes of all kinds to be good value. Now just keep going, as I have, ignoring the bank telling you you’re bankrupt, until you have every tube ever. It’s the only way to be sure


----------



## Jazz du Look

KPzypher said:


> Some DAPs may sound good but they are all clunky with poor UI and overall weak spec compared to a decent phone.  Unless you're limited by space or ultra portability is a must for you, streamer plus cellphone is way better choice IMO.


I agree, but portability is an issue. Thanks. I’ll let the thread get back on track now!


----------



## Njychen

Does anyone have experience with the Pendant and the Cayin HA-1A Mk2?  They use the same tubes, wonder how they compare.  Thanks.


----------



## project86

Njychen said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Pendant and the Cayin HA-1A Mk2?  They use the same tubes, wonder how they compare.  Thanks.




I just reviewed the Pendant over at Darko.Audio if you want to see my take on it (spoiler: loved it). 

I also own the Cayin HA-1A Mk2 yet didn't even consider the fact that they use similar tubes. They are quite different sounding amps though. In general I find the Pendant faster, more detailed, and possessing a blacker background. The Cayin is more prone to euphonic tube bloom and is somewhat warmer from top to bottom. 

Note that both amps can change character fairly drastically with tube rolling, with the Cayin being perhaps the most variable amp I've heard when it comes to swapping tubes. So there's lots of room for adjustments and personalization. Still, the Pendant is always going to be quieter and probably faster too, and I feel it is worth the extra cost in most situations. Love the Cayin amp for what it is but the Pendant is a higher level altogether.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

She finally arrived!  Pretty sure she came by carrier pigeon.  It took 10 days to get from California to Connecticut.  Regardless, she's in the house!  I'm just starting with the stock JJ tubes.  I have some others to roll in already, but will wait a little bit and just run for a while on the stock JJ's.  No hum or hiss, very quite.  Sounds beautiful just turning on for the first time and I expect will get better with some burn in time.  I'm one happy camper.  Oh, the chassis is camphor burl and the VC's are camphor burl with a light mahogany stain.  The stand is home made and is curly maple.


----------



## ScornDefeat

4LoveOfSound said:


> She finally arrived!  Pretty sure she came by carrier pigeon.  It took 10 days to get from California to Connecticut.  Regardless, she's in the house!  I'm just starting with the stock JJ tubes.  I have some others to roll in already, but will wait a little bit and just run for a while on the stock JJ's.  No hum or hiss, very quite.  Sounds beautiful just turning on for the first time and I expect will get better with some burn in time.  I'm one happy camper.  Oh, the chassis is camphor burl and the VC's are camphor burl with a light mahogany stain.  The stand is home made and is curly maple.



That Camphor Burl Pendant 🤩🤩

Is there any way I can send mine back and have it upgraded to the camphor burl chassis? Please..... 🤣


----------



## KPzypher

4LoveOfSound said:


> She finally arrived!  Pretty sure she came by carrier pigeon.  It took 10 days to get from California to Connecticut.  Regardless, she's in the house!  I'm just starting with the stock JJ tubes.  I have some others to roll in already, but will wait a little bit and just run for a while on the stock JJ's.  No hum or hiss, very quite.  Sounds beautiful just turning on for the first time and I expect will get better with some burn in time.  I'm one happy camper.  Oh, the chassis is camphor burl and the VC's are camphor burl with a light mahogany stain.  The stand is home made and is curly maple.



Nice!  Glad you're liking it.  And good to hear you're not experiencing any noise issues.   I haven't turned mine on in a while because no matter what i do,  I can't get past the low level hum.  You’re gonna have fun tube rolling.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

She's a beauty for sure!  I asked for something that would complement the camphor burl VC's.  This is what Zach sent.  Awesome choice.  What a week!  I received the VC's and Pendant two days apart.  Christmas in November!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

4LoveOfSound said:


> She's a beauty for sure!  I asked for something that would complement the camphor burl VC's.  This is what Zach sent.  Awesome choice.  What a week!  I received the VC's and Pendant two days apart.  Christmas in November!


Technically ampsandsound sent it.  It came straight from California.


----------



## nwavesailor

4LoveOfSound said:


> She finally arrived!  Pretty sure she came by carrier pigeon.  It took 10 days to get from California to Connecticut.  Regardless, she's in the house!  I'm just starting with the stock JJ tubes.  I have some others to roll in already, but will wait a little bit and just run for a while on the stock JJ's.  No hum or hiss, very quite.  Sounds beautiful just turning on for the first time and I expect will get better with some burn in time.  I'm one happy camper.  Oh, the chassis is camphor burl and the VC's are camphor burl with a light mahogany stain.  The stand is home made and is curly maple



Looking really nice,@4LoveOfSound! Good to see that the glass stand had worked out for your Pendant as well.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

@zach915m, how do you connect your Yggy to the Pendant?  Do you use the RCA out on the Yggy or XLR to RCA converter?


----------



## ampsandsound

In a perfect world some conversion should occur for the piggy. The xls to RCA converter boxes aren't really for the amp... they are so the day works in its top form.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Super excited to be joining this thread, big thanks to @zach915m and @ampsandsound I received a beautiful hand crafted/built Pendant.  Looking forward to sharing my impressions, learn from some of you that have been tube rolling with it for some time now and sharing what I find from rolling different tubes and DACS. I will be filming a full review for YouTube as well.  Also thinking about doing a live stream to chat it up about the amp very soon.  Quick iPhone snap of some of my current desktop setup.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

That's another beautiful camphor burl Pendant!  I was quite happy with the stock JJ tubes and could live with them alone.  However, I did buy some NOS.  Added a set of black plate Hammond EL84 (RCA made I believe).  Those made the music much more holographic.  I'm also trying out a Mullard 12AU7.  So far seems to have similar bass but overall thicker sounding.  Not sure it's my cup of tea.  Maybe for bright sounding recordings, but for everyday use, not sure yet.  I also have a black plate RCA Command series 12AT7 to try.


----------



## johnnypaddock

4LoveOfSound said:


> That's another beautiful camphor burl Pendant!  I was quite happy with the stock JJ tubes and could live with them alone.  However, I did buy some NOS.  Added a set of black plate Hammond EL84 (RCA made I believe).  Those made the music much more holographic.  I'm also trying out a Mullard 12AU7.  So far seems to have similar bass but overall thicker sounding.  Not sure it's my cup of tea.  Maybe for bright sounding recordings, but for everyday use, not sure yet.  I also have a black plate RCA Command series 12AT7 to try.



I tried a pair of old school Mullard 12AU7 with my Pendant and had the same impression on the sound. I did like that tube with my old Bottlehead Crack, but it didn't meet expectations for this amp. My favorite 12AU7 input tubes have been vintage Amperex Bugle Boy followed by Siemens chrome tops and Telefunken smooth plates.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Thanks for the ideas.  I have a set of RCA 6922 made by Amperex Holland that I really liked in the LP, so I bet I would like the Amperex 12AU7.  I couldn't take it.  I pulled the Mullard out and put the RCA in.... ahhhhhhh much better.


----------



## nwavesailor

Valvo 6201 sound really nice in the Pendant are fairly easy to find. I have white and blue label with the same etched production code and I can not hear a difference.
Raytheon 7728 or 7730 are 2 other harder to find tubes that are worth the hunt.

If I did not have these I'd be fine with many 12AU7 (7316) /12AT7 that work well.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

@ampsandsound, you mentioned Sylvania black plate tubes.  I see short and long plates.  Do you have a preference?


----------



## ampsandsound

Long plates.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I have one on the way!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

So beautiful to look at and listen too!  I love my Pendant!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Listening with the Sylvania black plate now.  Only about 20 minutes so far, but I like it.  The RCA black plate has a little more bass but it's a more bloated bass.  The bass with the Sylvania seems more natural sounding and not bass shy by any means.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

If you guys are around today for a live stream Saturday at 1 pm PST!!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Nov 22, 2020)

Thanks to @ProfFalkin I am going to start rolling some tubes today starting off with the EL84 Tungsram's to see how they change the sound! Rolling with the new LTD Edition _Vérité_  Open in Desert Ironwood beautiful looking and sounding!
MR


----------



## nwavesailor

MRphotography said:


> Thanks to @ProfFalkin I am going to start rolling some tubes today starting off with the EL84 Tungsram's to see how they change the sound! Rolling with the new LTD Edition _Vérité_  Open in Desert Ironwood beautiful looking and sounding!
> MR


I don't want to lead the witness but I think you may like the Tungsram EL84 in your Pendant with the VO. I know I do!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Baldeagle58 said:


> Aeolus open back.
> Everyone says that the Verite/Pendant combination is the one to have. It’s a money thing for me. The Verite were over budget.
> Maybe some day.



I would actually say the Aeolus Pendant combo is pretty damn sweet!  I have been listening with both and enjoy them equally!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

zach915m said:


> I usually buy them on eBay - they seem to be around 30 to 60 bucks depending on the seller.  Did they replace them with something newer and cooler?



I have a few monster power strips from my home theater days that work great, also another option may be the panamax strips as well, I have a couple of those too.


----------



## xiorath (Nov 25, 2020)

After spending almost 1K$ in tubes to get around to experimenting with different combinations.. My favorite combination by far is the *Mullard CV4003/12AU7 with Tunsgram EL84 O Getter* using ZMF Verite Open with Suede Universe Pads. Keep in mind I was looking for a combination of 3d soundstage, detail retrieval, bass and overall slam as I tend to listen to more Electronic & Industrial / Modern day Metal music and do a lot of Gaming (seeking that cinematic immersion)

My current list of tubes other than the ones mentioned above

12AX7-
Mullard Longplate Blackburn1957 Square Getter
Telefunken Black Diamond
PSVANE TI II

12AU7-
7316 Amperex Long Plates 1958

ECC99-
JJ Electronics

5751-
Raytheon 5751 Orange Label

EL84-
Sylvania Red Tip Black Plate
Sylvania Black Plate Baldwins
Gold Lion
Sovtek
Mullard Blackburn D-Getter rX1 CV2975


----------



## Virion

xiorath said:


> After spending almost 1K$ in tubes to get around to experimenting with different combinations.. My favorite combination by far is the *Mullard CV4003/12AU7 with Tunsgram EL84 O Getter* using ZMF Verite Open with Suede Universe Pads. Keep in mind I was looking for a combination of 3d soundstage, detail retrieval, bass and overall slam as I tend to listen to more Electronic & Industrial / Modern day Metal music and do a lot of Gaming (seeking that cinematic immersion)
> 
> My current list of tubes other than the ones mentioned above
> 
> ...



Ha, I know the feeling with spending money on tubes. I'm glad you know what kind of music/sound experience you are after. Still trying out different tubes to get to know/pinpoint my preferences, instead of just enjoying myself.


----------



## nwavesailor

xiorath said:


> After spending almost 1K$ in tubes to get around to experimenting with different combinations.. My favorite combination by far is the *Mullard CV4003/12AU7 with Tunsgram EL84 O Getter* using ZMF Verite Open with Suede Universe Pads. Keep in mind I was looking for a combination of 3d soundstage, detail retrieval, bass and overall slam as I tend to listen to more Electronic & Industrial / Modern day Metal music and do a lot of Gaming (seeking that cinematic immersion)



I strongly second your EL84 Tungsram pairing in the Pendant!

I listen to more mellow music and 0 gaming and may need more energy. My 1950's Mullard 12AU7 Blackburn as well as Brimar CV4033 and Marconi B309 sound a bit too polite. With your findings, however, I should give them another try. 
I went through so many 12AT7 and 12AU7 when I first got the Pendant that I may not have given them enough time to get an accurate take. 
I now find I go back and forth between Valvo 6201 (blue or white label) , Raytheon 7728 / 7730, Amperex 7316 and Siemens E81CC. 

I didn't hear a ton of difference with the rectifiers so settled on Telefunken EZ81 that may actually be Mullard production.


----------



## xiorath

nwavesailor said:


> I strongly second your EL84 Tungsram pairing in the Pendant!
> 
> I listen to more mellow music and 0 gaming and may need more energy. My 1950's Mullard 12AU7 Blackburn as well as Brimar CV4033 and Marconi B309 sound a bit too polite. With your findings, however, I should give them another try.
> I went through so many 12AT7 and 12AU7 when I first got the Pendant that I may not have given them enough time to get an accurate take.
> ...



Yeah, the Mullard Blackburn is definitely a bit polite so I was quite surprised when the Mullard CV4003 was quite a contrast, as it offered a lot of kick and life to the over all sound as well as a larger overall soundstage over the Mullard Blackburn Longplate.

I really like the Amperex 7316 as well, I'll definitely be going back to that one eventually, The others probably have about 10-30 hours of burn in and I'll eventually do some more experimenting, but I have such a bad habit of swapping out what I typically don't like after 10-20 hours and throwing back in what I prefer. So it could possibly be I haven't allowed a lot of these proper time to fully come in.


----------



## nwavesailor

Nice!
At least you give them 10-20 hours to go back to what you prefer. I am not that patient and tend to change rather quickly.


----------



## Abstrakcja

Got my ZMF Pendant with custom wood! Looks like it's following all the recent designs as well: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Question: Is the smaller, bottom right tube (12AX7) supposed to light up? Mine does not but it does get hot to the touch at least. Sound seems fine so I guess the tube is working ok?


----------



## ScornDefeat

Abstrakcja said:


> Got my ZMF Pendant with custom wood! Looks like it's following all the recent designs as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful amp! And an awesome sounding and versatile one, at that. I'm sure you'll enjoy it tremendously.

I can confirm that my input 12AX7 tube doesn't glow, either. The outputs and the rectifier have a beautiful, warm orange glow, though. Some tubes just don't glow altogether, some do, but my experience is that 12AX/T/U7 series tubes tend to not glow much in most circuits. Totally normal.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Abstrakcja said:


> Got my ZMF Pendant with custom wood! Looks like it's following all the recent designs as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



congrats it’s a killer amp!


----------



## Virion (Nov 30, 2020)

ScornDefeat said:


> Beautiful amp! And an awesome sounding and versatile one, at that. I'm sure you'll enjoy it tremendously.
> 
> I can confirm that my input 12AX7 tube doesn't glow, either. The outputs and the rectifier have a beautiful, warm orange glow, though. Some tubes just don't glow altogether, some do, but my experience is that 12AX/T/U7 series tubes tend to not glow much in most circuits. Totally normal.


Some NOS 12a*7 tubes do glow though
Edit: Sorry about the crappy picture. Phone is getting old.


----------



## itsikhefez

I'm selling off some of my EL84 stash, all NOS and attractive prices (IMHO)
If you were looking to try tube rolling in your Pendant, this may be a good opportunity.
(hoping this does not violate forum rules)

Post is here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nos-el84-6bq5-pairs-telefunken-amperex-mullard-matsushita.948601/


----------



## KPzypher

FINALLY!!!!  Finally found a headphone that is free of noise when used with the pendant.

Hifiman HE6SEV2!!!!!!   Dead quiet from both low and high Z.  

And they pair exceptionally well to boot.

I can finally use the Pendant again. Yay!  It was barely touched the last several months, due to noise/low level hum.


----------



## nwavesailor

I too have unused NOS and some used EL84 and need to follow your lead. I'm good ay buying but never get around to selling tubes
I have settled (for now!) on Tungsrams EL84 in my Pendant. I am fortunate to have found 4 NIB / NOS from the early 70's


----------



## itsikhefez

@KPzypher good for you! It would be a shame though that you would limit such an amp to a single pair of headphones.

I don't have the Pendant and have not heard one, but given that it is made by a reputable designer and specifically for headphones, I have to assume that unless its faulty it should not hum with common "audiophile" headphones.

Did you try resolving the hum somehow? A few options could be:
1) Trying lower gain input tube such as the 12AU7 or equivalents -- 5963, 12BH7A (need to ensure the heater rating has some overheard)
2) Ground loop with your source component -- if you short the inputs, do you still have hum?


----------



## KPzypher

itsikhefez said:


> @KPzypher good for you! It would be a shame though that you would limit such an amp to a single pair of headphones.
> 
> I don't have the Pendant and have not heard one, but given that it is made by a reputable designer and specifically for headphones, I have to assume that unless its faulty it should not hum with common "audiophile" headphones.
> 
> ...



Trust me, I've tried everything under the sun.  I even sent it back to Justin to get it tested, and he said they're working fine and under spec, so who knows.  I'm just glad I could use it again.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

itsikhefez said:


> @KPzypher good for you! It would be a shame though that you would limit such an amp to a single pair of headphones.
> 
> I don't have the Pendant and have not heard one, but given that it is made by a reputable designer and specifically for headphones, I have to assume that unless its faulty it should not hum with common "audiophile" headphones.
> 
> ...



PM you now!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Dec 3, 2020)

Would love to have you join us this Friday, December 4th at 7 pm PST for a laidback live stream discussing subjective audio impressions between these two awesome headphone amps!


----------



## dematted

I've seen a lot of effusive praise about this amp here (although I still wish there were more feedback), which makes me wonder, what exactly about this amp, in the humble opinion of those who own it, tends to fall short? As someone potentially interested in buying this down the line, I'm curious about what areas it is relatively weaker in, and what sonic shortcomings it may have. Thanks in advance for any responses!


----------



## steve468

Dematted: I'm not sure it's a matter of weaknesses, but more a matter of trade-offs of presentations. I would say that it's not as tubey as some amps. I recently got a Bottlehead Crack, and in comparison the Pendant has more slam, more details, more extension top and bottom, but it misses that softer sound and midrange focus that the Crack gives. 

The pendant is also not quite as tight as the Schiit Ragnarok. The Rag is more lean, making it a slightly faster amp, while the Pendant's sound has more flesh on it's bones, which means it's ever so slightly slower.

But all 3 amps have a place in my listening (yes, even the Crack) depending on what I'm listening to and my mood.


----------



## Wes S

Hey folks.  I am curious which tube type you use most with your Pendant, and why?  12au7 or 12ax7?  I am stalking up on tubes before making the plunge for the Pendant, and don't have any 12ax7 in my inventory yet, but have all the "holy grail" 12au7's already, and I am curious if many use the 12au7 or if most use the 12ax7?  Thanks for your time!


----------



## johnnypaddock

I find that 12au7 tubes work best for my needs, due to the lower gain and the resulting lower noise floor. If you're fully stocked in that department, I'd recommend starting with those. If you're driving something that needs extra power, you might find the benefits of the higher power input tube are worth it. I'm not saying you shouldn't explore a few, but I wouldn't spend big money in that area until you get some exposure to the amp. Just my two cents.


----------



## Wes S

johnnypaddock said:


> I find that 12au7 tubes work best for my needs, due to the lower gain and the resulting lower noise floor. If you're fully stocked in that department, I'd recommend starting with those. If you're driving something that needs extra power, you might find the benefits of the higher power input tube are worth it. I'm not saying you shouldn't explore a few, but I wouldn't spend big money in that area until you get some exposure to the amp. Just my two cents.


Awesome!  Thanks for the info, and that is exactly what I was thinking, and appreciate the confirmation.


----------



## Baldeagle58

Wes S said:


> Hey folks.  I am curious which tube type you use most with your Pendant, and why?  12au7 or 12ax7?  I am stalking up on tubes before making the plunge for the Pendant, and don't have any 12ax7 in my inventory yet, but have all the "holy grail" 12au7's already, and I am curious if many use the 12au7 or if most use the 12ax7?  Thanks for your time!


My unit has the low grade hum that you will find discussed in this thread so I went with a Sylvania 5751 based on it being the tube that was the quietest. In fact that hum is not really an issue at all with that tube and I am just listening to the music now.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 8, 2020)

I find the !2AU7 & 12AT7 work best for my needs. You will love the 7728, 7316 and 6201 in the Pendant @Wes S. I have not used my LP since getting the Pendant.

I am so taken by the Pendant and Justin that I just ordered a Bigger Ben!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I find the !2AU7 & 12AT7 work best for my needs. You will love the 7728, 7316 and 6201 in the Pendant @Wes S. I have not used my LP since getting the Pendant.
> 
> I am so taken by the Pendant and Justin that I just ordered a Bigger Ben!


Curious, which headphones do you use the 12AT7 with?


----------



## nwavesailor

VO and Empy. I use the 7730 (12AU7) more although the 7728 has the same house sound.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> VO and Empy. I use the 7730 (12AU7) more although the 7728 has the same house sound.


Thanks!


----------



## Virion

nwavesailor said:


> I find the !2AU7 & 12AT7 work best for my needs. You will love the 7728, 7316 and 6201 in the Pendant @Wes S. I have not used my LP since getting the Pendant.
> 
> I am so taken by the Pendant and Justin that I just ordered a Bigger Ben!


Dont forget the 5751's they have about the same gain as the 12AT7's and have some pretty nice tube options. Like the raytheon windmill getter and sylvania black plates.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I'm currently running a JJ ECC99.  I saw ampsandsound mention it early in the thread.  When I first put it in, it didn't stay for long!  It was muddy and I thought it sounded awful.  Well, I decided to give it another try only this time, I ran music through it for about 10 hours straight before I listened.  HUGE difference.  It now has very nice bass, a weighty mid range, very nice clarity and smooth treble.  Less gain than the 12ax7.  Probably closer to the 12au7.  I'm liking it now, I'm glad I gave it another chance.  It's a tall tube.  Almost as tall as the EL84's.  Listening to some Diana Krall and really enjoying the sound.


----------



## dematted (Jan 2, 2021)

Has anyone used the pre-amp outs on this to a pair of active monitors? I just ordered a Pendant from ZMF and I'm kind of wondering if it will work well as a pre-amp for JBL 305 LSR, as well as eventually (perhaps) a pair of Hedd Type 07's.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Jan 6, 2021)

Just wanted to drop in and send some photo love to all my fellow ZMF and Ampsandsound lovers.  I dropped these over on the Verite thread too.
Here are some shots of Zach's amazing Verite Open Desert Iron Wood LTD along with the incredible Pendant with Burl Base (I have changed the tubes now out of stock config.) easily one of my favorite combos. I hope you guys dig on these. Don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube and turn on notifications for when I drop my full review of both. https://www.youtube.com/marcellorostagni check my insta too if you want to see some more shots as I drop them! https://www.instagram.com/mrphotographycom

Much Love! images ©Marcello Rostagni 2020


----------



## Wes S

MRphotography said:


> Just wanted to drop in and send some photo love to all my fellow ZMF and Ampsandsound lovers.  I dropped these over on the Verite thread too.
> Here are some shots of Zach's amazing Verite Open Desert Iron Wood LTD along with the incredible Pendant with Burl Base (I have changed the tubes now out of stock config.) easily one of my favorite combos. I hope you guys dig on these. Don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube and turn on notifications for when I drop my full review of both. https://www.youtube.com/marcellorostagni check my insta too if you want to see some more shots as I drop them! https://www.instagram.com/mrphotographycom
> 
> Much Love! images ©Marcello Rostagni 2020


Good stuff bro!  I am subscribed and love how the channel is coming along.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Wes S said:


> Good stuff bro!  I am subscribed and love how the channel is coming along.



thank you brother @Wes S you are one of the people from the very start that I enjoy chatting music and audio with!  I appreciate you and your support!


----------



## hikaru12

Any of you guys got any good recommendations on detailed EL84s? I know Sylvania made some at some point in the 60s but don't know if they have the same house sound as other tube types (6SN7/12AU7)


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Any of you guys got any good recommendations on detailed EL84s? I know Sylvania made some at some point in the 60s but don't know if they have the same house sound as other tube types (6SN7/12AU7)


I don't have a Pendant yet, but I know tubes.  Which el84's have you tried so far?  My favorite el84's are Valvo made in Hamburg D Getters, and they are magical sounding combining the detail of a Telefunken and the warmth of a Mullard.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> I don't have a Pendant yet, but I know tubes.  Which el84's have you tried so far?  My favorite el84's are Valvo made in Hamburg D Getters, and they are magical sounding combining the detail of a Telefunken and the warmth of a Mullard.



Mullard and 57' Amperex 7189 D getters. I'm currently looking at some what appears to be Reflektor/Sovtek? 6P14P (https://www.ebay.com/itm/152455845867?&ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true)


----------



## GDuss

hikaru12 said:


> Any of you guys got any good recommendations on detailed EL84s? I know Sylvania made some at some point in the 60s but don't know if they have the same house sound as other tube types (6SN7/12AU7)



I've had the Pendant for about 2 months now, and so far prefer Amperex EL84's from 1958 (D getter, but made in the Austria factory).  I'm guessing these are similar to the ones you have.  I have also tried some Sylvania black plate O getters (labeled Hammond) that have beautiful tone, but not sure they are what you want for detail.  I've also used some Mullard 7189 O getters that I don't think have the detail of the Amperex.  This is with the Verite Closed and Bifrost 2 for reference.


----------



## hikaru12

GDuss said:


> I've had the Pendant for about 2 months now, and so far prefer Amperex EL84's from 1958 (D getter, but made in the Austria factory).  I'm guessing these are similar to the ones you have.  I have also tried some Sylvania black plate O getters (labeled Hammond) that have beautiful tone, but not sure they are what you want for detail.  I've also used some Mullard 7189 O getters that I don't think have the detail of the Amperex.  This is with the Verite Closed and Bifrost 2 for reference.



Thanks for your insight - I am really enjoying the Mullards but I think I might need to go for the Telefunkens if I can find some for like $120. They get expensive and if the Valvos are better like Wes suggests I may just have to pull the trigger on those.


----------



## GDuss

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for your insight - I am really enjoying the Mullards but I think I might need to go for the Telefunkens if I can find some for like $120. They get expensive and if the Valvos are better like Wes suggests I may just have to pull the trigger on those.



Agreed on liking the Mullards, they're just not optimal for detail in my experience with them so far (which is admittedly limited, @Wes S has way more knowledge).

What do you have in the 12AU7 socket?


----------



## hikaru12

GDuss said:


> Agreed on liking the Mullards, they're just not optimal for detail in my experience with them so far (which is admittedly limited, @Wes S has way more knowledge).
> 
> What do you have in the 12AU7 socket?



I have a Telefunken Black Diamond


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> I have a Telefunken Black Diamond


Got ya.  I would definitely go with NOS tubes, vs. new production (Black Diamond) if it were me.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jan 29, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Any of you guys got any good recommendations on detailed EL84s? I know Sylvania made some at some point in the 60s but don't know if they have the same house sound as other tube types (6SN7/12AU7)




My favorite EL84 in the Pendant is the Tungsram. My NOS quad is branded Siemens but is 1972 Tungsram production. I have NOS Tele's EL84 as well with identical date code that are nice. I have not tried the Valvo's but I wouldn't doubt they are very good.

If you are keying in on detail you may want to focus on the 12AU, 12AT7. For me it's the 6201 I keep coming back to these versions. The NOS Siemens E81CC / 6201 have a good more detail. I settled on Valvo 6201 both white and blue label.

I am selling my Pendant since I have upgraded to a Bigger Ben and should sell off the EL84's, EZ81 and some 6201's although I do use 1 of those in the BB.




hikaru12 said:


> Mullard and 57' Amperex 7189 D getters. I'm currently looking at some what appears to be Reflektor/Sovtek? 6P14P (https://www.ebay.com/itm/152455845867?&ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true)



The Reflector production 6P14P are also quite good NOS tubes. I ended up buying 2 nicely matched pairs and then found i enjoyed the Tungram a bit more.


----------



## hikaru12

nwavesailor said:


> My favorite EL84 in the Pendant is the Tungsram.



This is an EI branded one - https://upscaleaudio.com/products/tungsram-6bq5-el84-branded-ei - is this legit or should I be looking for some on ebay? I'm not really good at reading plate codes, etc. Thanks!


----------



## nwavesailor

From the photo, that is the tell tale sign of the Tungsram, not the name branded on the tube. My quad are all maked Siemens in Siemens vintage boxes with date codes from 1972 but they look like the Tunsram production with the getter material on the sides of the glass as noted in the Upscale photo. I think Kevin Deal did a video about these?


----------



## Wes S

Here is a listing for the version of Valvo EL84 that I have and recommend for detail, without harness.

This is the first and most desirable version with the "dish" or sometimes called "plate" getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-match...-/303865560931?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## robo24

Can the Pendant be rolled with tubes to give it more of a lush, tubey sound and do it well?

I'm planning to get one by the end of the year, the updated model. I've never heard it, much less any higher end tube amp (the Woo WA7 or the tube modes in the iCan being the most expensive I've heard). I've been pretty happy with the iCAN using WE-396A and a few other tubes in it, and also with the Tuba amp I just got, which I purchased somewhat because I can use EL84 tubes I've bought for it in the Pendant.

Anyway, stock the Tuba, iCAN, and Pendant have all been described as very SS like, which is fine, but since I also have 2 good SS amps (iCAN again and TT2) I'm not looking for another such tube amp. I've not heard any tube amps described more as lush and traditionally tubey sounding, which at least in my head seems desirable in that it would be clearly different from the SS amps I have. That and that some love the BHC with ZMFs. Not sure where the Glenn OTL falls on that spectrum but I'm about to give up after waiting for it for longer than anticipated.

My thoughts are that I clearly enjoy Zach's headphone creations and if this is what he helped design and sells as ZMF's tube amp specifically to go great with his headphones, I'm almost certain I'll love it. I don't have a way to try it until SoCal CanJam in September if that doesn't get rescheduled, but patience isn't my strong suit.

I've been trying to get a more tubey sound out of the Tuba with a bunch of different EL84 & 7189 pairs, with the best regarded on the way, but so far I've yet to hear any that seem dramatically different, and those are the only 2 tubes in this amp. I'm thinking with more and different tubes to roll on the Pendant I'll be more likely to find a wider range of experiences from it. Is that people's experience with it? I've read this whole thread but it's still not clear to me how changeable it is will tube rolling.


----------



## dematted

I personally think that though you can certainly get a bit of a wetter, lusher presentation, it fundamentally doesn’t make sense to try to turn the pendant into a stereotypically warm tube amp - that’s just not what it does well. In fact, I had pretty bad results rolling in a brimar cv4003 into my pendant. It just took away what made it special.

if you’re looking for a lush, tubey sound, I’d recommend dna or woo.


----------



## johnnypaddock

dematted said:


> I personally think that though you can certainly get a bit of a wetter, lusher presentation, it fundamentally doesn’t make sense to try to turn the pendant into a stereotypically warm tube amp - that’s just not what it does well. In fact, I had pretty bad results rolling in a brimar cv4003 into my pendant. It just took away what made it special.
> 
> if you’re looking for a lush, tubey sound, I’d recommend dna or woo.


Yeah I was going to say the same thing. I loved the Mullard CV4003 in the Bottlehead Crack, but when I tried it in the Pendant it took away from what makes the amp so great. I don’t think you can tube roll this amp into something it’s not.


----------



## robo24

Thanks, both of ya! Found the headphones thread in the meantime which was also very helpful.


----------



## GDuss

I've had the Pendant since early December of last year and it's my go-to amp now.  The caveat is that the VC are my go-to headphones.  I think those headphones are at their best on a fast tube amp.  I also have a Glenn OTL and a V280.  The Pendant is closer to the V280 than the GOTL.  It takes what is great about SS amps (speed, detail, tighter bass) and then makes it sound like tubes where the staging and imaging have more realism to them.  It's clear you are listening to a tube amp with the Pendant, but it still has the SS amp feel to it.  The GOTL is a different thing.  It creates beautiful tone and euphony and huge images where the music comes from all directions.  It will melt you into your chair.  But it's not nearly as fast as the Pendant.  I've tried to make the GOTL a fast amp like the Pendant with tube rolling, but it just ends up taking away from what the GOTL is good at.

I agree with the other comments above.  It sounds more like a GOTL is what you are after.  Unfortunately it's not clear how many more of those will ever be made.


----------



## robo24

GDuss said:


> I agree with the other comments above. It sounds more like a GOTL is what you are after. Unfortunately it's not clear how many more of those will ever be made.


Actually from your description they both sound pretty great. Distinctly different from SS is really kind of enough for me to justify the Pendant actually. Descriptions of it being holographic/3D are also very appealing. Unfortunately I'm well aware of the GOTL issue 16 months after ordering, knowing others are well ahead of me. I'd be giving up on the Glenn if I buy the Pendant and would need get that money back to pay for it. I hope he starts to feel much better, regardless.


----------



## GDuss

robo24 said:


> Actually from your description they both sound pretty great. Distinctly different from SS is really kind of enough for me to justify the Pendant actually. Descriptions of it being holographic/3D are also very appealing. Unfortunately I'm well aware of the GOTL issue 16 months after ordering, knowing others are well ahead of me. I'd be giving up on the Glenn if I buy the Pendant and would need get that money back to pay for it. I hope he starts to feel much better, regardless.



They are both great, in different ways. At this level, I think it’s just different flavors of great. And proper matching with the rest of your chain. 

I also hope Glenn starts making amps again. I’m sure he does as well. But it’s an unknown.

I got the Pendant without having heard it first, but just based off descriptions from others, and the fact that Zach puts his name on it. It’s been almost 3 months so I think any honeymoon is over. At this point, I’d buy one again, without hesitation.


----------



## Magol79

robo24 said:


> Actually from your description they both sound pretty great. Distinctly different from SS is really kind of enough for me to justify the Pendant actually. Descriptions of it being holographic/3D are also very appealing. Unfortunately I'm well aware of the GOTL issue 16 months after ordering, knowing others are well ahead of me. I'd be giving up on the Glenn if I buy the Pendant and would need get that money back to pay for it. I hope he starts to feel much better, regardless.


Why not talk to Justin over at ampsandsound. They build the Pendant for ZMF and have other more traditionally tubey amps in their lineup.


----------



## Celty

Looking forward to hearing impressions of the new Pendant SE!


----------



## zach915m

Hey guys - Pendant SE pre-order will end after this weekend!  here's some pics I took of the amp lately, any questions let me know.


----------



## raindownthunda

zach915m said:


> Hey guys - Pendant SE pre-order will end after this weekend!  here's some pics I took of the amp lately, any questions let me know.



Without a doubt, the most beautiful amp chassis money can buy. That burl is phenomenal!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Must resist.........


----------



## pkcpga

hikaru12 said:


> Any of you guys got any good recommendations on detailed EL84s? I know Sylvania made some at some point in the 60s but don't know if they have the same house sound as other tube types (6SN7/12AU7)


So far I’ve found the Amperex el84’s to be most detailed but switching your 12xx7 I found gives the most sound difference.  The Amperex 6201 has the most detail I’ve heard so far, while keeping a balanced sound.


----------



## pkcpga

GDuss said:


> Agreed on liking the Mullards, they're just not optimal for detail in my experience with them so far (which is admittedly limited, @Wes S has way more knowledge).
> 
> What do you have in the 12AU7 socket?


Brent Jessee had me try the Mazda 12au7’s they are a great combo of good detail with good air while still having a nice amount of warmth and sub bass.  Mullards were a bit too warm for me and Amperex 6201 has amazing detail and air, good bass but lacks a bit of sub bass that the Mazda added, loses a bit of the Amperex air but retains great detail.  Also reasonably priced under a $100.


----------



## GDuss

pkcpga said:


> Brent Jessee had me try the Mazda 12au7’s they are a great combo of good detail with good air while still having a nice amount of warmth and sub bass.  Mullards were a bit too warm for me and Amperex 6201 has amazing detail and air, good bass but lacks a bit of sub bass that the Mazda added, loses a bit of the Amperex air but retains great detail.  Also reasonably priced under a $100.



He suggested the same thing to me and I just got a pair of them from him. I needed a pair for another amp but will try one in the Pendant. 

Honestly, my favorite 12AU7 so far in the Pendant has been a Baldwin (made by Raytheon).  This may be the only Raytheon tube I have ever spent any time with so I don't know whether it's representative of Raytheon house sound or whether there is something unusual about it.  It's a long black plate, O getter, and has 12AU7 inside a stop sign shape.  The silk screening is all yellow.  It's possible it just matches well with the Amperex EL84's I'm using (with the Bifrost 2 and the VC's), but it just does so many things right and is very engaging.  It was not very expensive, so maybe it also exceeded my expectations (which is always a bonus).


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I couldn’t resist after all.  Just ordered the SE.  My favorite 12au7 is the orange label RCA clear top.  Haven’t tried amperex.  I had the same experience with the mullard.


----------



## pkcpga

GDuss said:


> He suggested the same thing to me and I just got a pair of them from him. I needed a pair for another amp but will try one in the Pendant.
> 
> Honestly, my favorite 12AU7 so far in the Pendant has been a Baldwin (made by Raytheon).  This may be the only Raytheon tube I have ever spent any time with so I don't know whether it's representative of Raytheon house sound or whether there is something unusual about it.  It's a long black plate, O getter, and has 12AU7 inside a stop sign shape.  The silk screening is all yellow.  It's possible it just matches well with the Amperex EL84's I'm using (with the Bifrost 2 and the VC's), but it just does so many things right and is very engaging.  It was not very expensive, so maybe it also exceeded my expectations (which is always a bonus).


That’s funny, I bought the vintage tube set with my Pendant/Verite C combo and Zach’s set was the Baldwin 12au7 with Amperex el84’s, sounds great that way.  My Baldwin 12au7 has a long black plate also, mustard yellow writing Baldwin.  I have the Amperex 6201, had more detail but I liked the bass and warmth of the Baldwin.  Which lead me to the Mazda 12au7, kind of combines the two.  If anyone is looking for detail and air up top with decent bass, the Amperex 6201 is amazing.  The Mazda just adds a little more warmth and sub bass to the Amperex without losing too much air/detail.  I’ve matched it with a nos Siemens rectifier tube, got rid of a little noise I had with the shipped rectifier tube and the stock JJ rectifier tube.  I still use the Amperex 6201 if I’m in the mood to listen to classical music.  And the Baldwin for less desirable recording, seems to be the kindest for pop, electronic music.  I resold my nos Mullard tube, wasn’t for me and was pretty expensive, I like warm but this was more syrupy then expected.  Telefunken 12au7 red tip is a fun listen, but can be too bright with many recording for me and leaves me craving more bass.  Tubes have become an addiction.


----------



## nwavesailor

pkcpga said:


> Tubes have become an addiction.


"Psssst, hey kid..........try one of THESE tubes.........first one is on me"....and another life is ruined by tube hunting obsession / addiction!!!!!


----------



## prosnowboarder (Feb 28, 2021)

I sold my kenzie encore for this beauty.
I dearly loved the kenzie but think that I never gave it a chance with the right tubes for my setup. I just didn't know where to start and I was fearful of going too far down that rabbit hole. That said it was the best thing I've heard With both my blackwood Autuer and my camphor burl Verite. With the upgrades to the pendant and the all the user recommendations on tubes I feel pretty set for an endgame masterpiece by the two companies I've come to love.

Also hoping the 100 ohm output to provide a nice change from the 300 on the kenzie.

And wow I was shocked to see those pics are of the stock wood.
What a fabulous product.
I just ordered one of those rca's from tubedepot. Any recommendations for the other tubes would be very nice.

I did get the nos upgrade from ZMF but I'd like the ability to roll a little for preference. I just received a pair of 1960's tungsram el84 top O getter. Also a 1957 mullard 12au7 and a new mullard iec japan 12au7.


----------



## nwavesailor

prosnowboarder said:


> I sold my kenzie encore for this beauty.
> I dearly loved the kenzie but think that I never gave it a chance with the right tubes for my setup. I just didn't know where to start and I was fearful of going too far down that rabbit hole. That said it was the best thing I've heard With both my Autuer and my verite. With the upgrades to the pendant and the all the user recommendations on tubes I feel pretty set for an endgame masterpiece by the two companies I've come to love.
> 
> Also hoping the 100 ohm output to provide a nice change from the 300 on the kenzie.
> ...


I think you will be very happy with the Tungsram EL84's in your Pendant and likely the Mullard 12AU7 as well. I owned a Pendant and really liked the Tungsrams.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

nwavesailor said:


> "Psssst, hey kid..........try one of THESE tubes.........first one is on me"....and another life is ruined by tube hunting obsession / addiction!!!!!


I have a Botthlehead crack and I spent more money on tubes than on the amp and all of the upgrades.


----------



## prosnowboarder (Feb 28, 2021)

Thanks you settled my worries that I'd be missing something with this set.
Any thoughts on the rectifier tubes?


----------



## jonathan c

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I have a Botthlehead crack and I spent more money on tubes than on the amp and all of the upgrades.


Next stop:  more money on tubes than on the amp(s), headphone cables, headphones, interconnect cables combined...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jonathan c said:


> Next stop:  more money on tubes than on the amp(s), headphone cables, headphones, interconnect cables combined...


I actually stopped when I thought I had the sound I was seeking and I got tired to A/B testing.


----------



## pkcpga

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I actually stopped when I thought I had the sound I was seeking and I got tired to A/B testing.


Now I just decide what I want to listen to then pick my tubes, leave them that way for a few days, week, then swap when I feel like something a little different.  My problem now is I hate swapping pads but have a clear preference with acoustic music for BE2 pads, but only for acoustic music, so might need a second ZMF.


----------



## nwavesailor

prosnowboarder said:


> Thanks you settled my worries that I'd be missing something with this set.
> Any thoughts on the rectifier tubes?


I had a harder time 'hearing' rectifiers than input and power tubes with the Pendant. I settled on Telefunken branded EZ81 (Mullard Blackburn production) based more on  @Torq Pendant review and using his rectifier suggestion.

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/news/zmf-pendant-tube-headphone-amplifier-review


----------



## pkcpga (Feb 28, 2021)

prosnowboarder said:


> Thanks you settled my worries that I'd be missing something with this set.
> Any thoughts on the rectifier tubes?


I’d ask Brent Jessee, audio tubes.com but I couldn’t tell sound differences between three I have. The Siemens one I use just made the amp quite while music wasn’t playing even with turning the volume knob most of the way up.  But that was the only difference I noticed.  And I only bought another because the original vintage tube sent by Zach the rectifier tube must have broke in shipping, it made a constant hum.  The JJ new also had a quieter hum with high z but not low z.  Now no hum on either high or low z.


----------



## prosnowboarder (Feb 28, 2021)

https://reverb.com/item/13730879-pr...d-pair-power-supply-rectifier-tubes-6ca4-uu12
Edit: oops that already sold. I can't find it anywhere else or as a single.


----------



## nwavesailor

prosnowboarder said:


> https://reverb.com/item/13730879-pr...d-pair-power-supply-rectifier-tubes-6ca4-uu12
> Edit: oops that already sold. I can't find it anywhere else or as a single.


The pair in the photo are Mullard production (see the 'B' for Blackburn on the etched glass near the bottom) and look to be real even though they are branded Tele. Not a bad price for a pair. Look at E-bay "SOLD" listings to get an idea of what others sold for.


----------



## pkcpga (Feb 28, 2021)

prosnowboarder said:


> https://reverb.com/item/13730879-pr...d-pair-power-supply-rectifier-tubes-6ca4-uu12
> Edit: oops that already sold. I can't find it anywhere else or as a single.


Try emailing Brent Jessee, I’d only buy from a reputable seller, way to easy to get bad tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor (Feb 28, 2021)

No first hand experience but others on HeadFi have not done well with Brent...................again I am not a customer. Way more $$$  is Kevin Deal at Upscale and Tube World, in my experience but YMMV!


----------



## pkcpga (Feb 28, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> No first hand experience but others on HeadFi have not done well with Brett...................again I am not a customer. Way more $$$  is Kevin Deal at Upscale and Tube World, in my experience.


Really, never had an issue with Brent, world of knowledge, upscale doesn’t really carry many tubes, specially 12au7s, but heard he’s good.  Tube World Express if that’s what you’re talking about has a bunch of not great reviews, so I avoided them.  I guess tubes can break easily in shipping, hopefully the store handles the issues well.


----------



## robo24

I've only had good experiences with Brent Jessee, including some used Amperex EL84 which arrived this week, for half the price of true NOS, and sound far better than other used Amperex EL84 I got from an ebay rando.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

pkcpga said:


> Now I just decide what I want to listen to then pick my tubes, leave them that way for a few days, week, then swap when I feel like something a little different.  My problem now is I hate swapping pads but have a clear preference with acoustic music for BE2 pads, but only for acoustic music, so might need a second ZMF.


I am much more proficient now at swapping pads.   At first, it took me forever to change them.   Once I learned the fold up technique, that made all the difference in the world.   I am not sure why I don't tube roll anymore.    It did it a lot at first.   Then, I just stopped.


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> No first hand experience but others on HeadFi have not done well with Brett...................again I am not a customer. Way more $$$  is Kevin Deal at Upscale and Tube World, in my experience.


Me being one of them. After a few pairs from Brett and sending them back. Never bought anything from him again. 
And they all charge way too much for their tubes. Knowing the reputable sellers on here and ebay will save a ton of money tube rolling.


----------



## pkcpga

Guidostrunk said:


> Me being one of them. After a few pairs from Brett and sending them back. Never bought anything from him again.
> And they all charge way too much for their tubes. Knowing the reputable sellers on here and ebay will save a ton of money tube rolling.


Who do you recommend?


----------



## Guidostrunk

On Ebay: tuberoom and tubetroniks are top notch sellers. TK knows a few others.  
Knowledgeable people on here that frequently sell tubes would be @TK16 @Wes S @bcowen  and every once in a while I let things go very reasonably priced.


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> No first hand experience but others on HeadFi have not done well with Brett...................again I am not a customer. Way more $$$  is Kevin Deal at Upscale and Tube World, in my experience.


Good experiences for me in dealing with Brent Jesse. A bit $$$ but a number of tubes that I could not find elsewhere.


----------



## jonathan c

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am much more proficient now at swapping pads.   At first, it took me forever to change them.   Once I learned the fold up technique, that made all the difference in the world.   I am not sure why I don't tube roll anymore.    It did it a lot at first.   Then, I just stopped.


Maybe because you could not use “the fold up technique” on tubes 😜...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Unless you have a tube tester. I'd be wary of buying from Brent or any of the others. When a tube is advertised as NOS and you pay their premium prices. Only to find out you purchased half dead tubes.


----------



## AngryTank

Hey guys, just wanted to ask what are the wait times like for the Pendants? I recently Purchased an SE not really sure how long I should expect for it to take.


----------



## prosnowboarder (Mar 2, 2021)

Zach just stated on another forum:


> Early Feb Orders are likely getting their units in the next couple weeks if not already. Recent orders in the last week probably will still be another 2-3 weeks out.





Spoiler: source



https://forum.headphones.com/t/zmf-pendant-tube-headphone-amplifier-official-thread/4791/475


----------



## AngryTank

prosnowboarder said:


> Zach just stated on another forum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah okay! That good to know, recently sold my Little Dot Mk Viii SE so gonna go tubeless for a little while.


----------



## GDuss

Hey @Wes S , look what showed up, and it's all your fault  .  I just put them in the amp for the first time last night, they probably need some time to wake up, but so far the midrange is glorious.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

No SE’s in the wild yet?  I’m patiently waiting for mine.  I ordered the last night of the special so will be a while.  In the meantime, I still have my OG Pendant to keep me smiling!  Not to mention, the low level hum I had on the high Z tap disappeared.  She’s dead quite now.  I have about 200 hours on it.  I’m starting to think going for the SE wasn’t necessary, but hey, what in this hobby is?!


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> No SE’s in the wild yet?  I’m patiently waiting for mine.  I ordered the last night of the special so will be a while.  In the meantime, I still have my OG Pendant to keep me smiling!  Not to mention, the low level hum I had on the high Z tap disappeared.  She’s dead quite now.  I have about 200 hours on it.  I’m starting to think going for the SE wasn’t necessary, but hey, what in this hobby is?!


Yea I’m surprised I haven’t seen any yet, maybe they haven’t shipped out yet from wherever the distribution center is.


----------



## pkcpga

AngryTank said:


> Yea I’m surprised I haven’t seen any yet, maybe they haven’t shipped out yet from wherever the distribution center is.


Last week Justin from amps and sound posted a bunch of Pendant SE’s on Instagram stating making progress.  Presuming Justin ships to Zach for him to them ship to customers, since some customers order vintage tubes that Zach picks.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My current Pendant shipped direct from Justin. I didn’t order the vintage tubes but I did order the custom wood chassis.


----------



## pkcpga

4LoveOfSound said:


> My current Pendant shipped direct from Justin. I didn’t order the vintage tubes but I did order the custom wood chassis.


Mine shipped from Zach but I order vintage tubes and custom wood chassis.


----------



## prosnowboarder (Mar 8, 2021)

I spoke with Zach over email about shipping and he said mine will be shipping from Socal (Ampsandsound) and I ordered the custom vintage tube set with it. I wanted a wood knob but I keep forgetting to bring it up during correspondence with Zach. 
He also said it should be done soon!

 I'm currently hp ampless and am itching for that top notch tube sound compared to plugging the verite into the hp jack of my LG phone. Verite still sounds good  from my phone but after hearing the verite's potential with the kenzie, I feel like I'm just being teased. I'm very ok with the wait with the quality and care that is taken into making these true masterpieces. 

Big thanks to ZMF and Ampsandsound for making my musical journey purely bliss!


----------



## markel

My SE has shipped. Should arrive tomorrow. Vintage tubes are coming separately. Looks like it is coming from Justin.


----------



## AngryTank

markel said:


> My SE has shipped. Should arrive tomorrow. Vintage tubes are coming separately. Looks like it is coming from Justin.


Please post some picture when you receive it! Im very anxious, I want to see other people’s Amp.


----------



## markel

I'll post pics when I get it.


----------



## Wes S

GDuss said:


> Hey @Wes S , look what showed up, and it's all your fault  .  I just put them in the amp for the first time last night, they probably need some time to wake up, but so far the midrange is glorious.


Nice man!  Those are killer tubes.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Unless you have a tube tester. I'd be wary of buying from Brent or any of the others. When a tube is advertised as NOS and you pay their premium prices. Only to find out you purchased half dead tubes.


I completely agree with @Guidostrunk and I have bought a ton of tubes from a bunch of different sellers over the years.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 8, 2021)

Don't have my Pendant yet, but I have been collecting tubes for it for a whole now, and here is what I will be rolling when I do get my Pendant SE.

Driver Tubes

12au7/ecc82



left to right - 7316 long plate foil d getter, Amperex long plate foil d getter, Brimar cv4034, Valvo ecc82 long plate d getter, Raytheon 7730 long plate square getter, Mullard ecc82 long plate square getter, Lorenz ecc82 long plate square getter, Valvo ecc82 long plate d getter, CBS-HYTRON 5814a Black plate square getter, Sylvania 5814a Triple Mica Short Grey Plate, Siemens silver plate ecc82

12at7/ecc81




left to right - Brimar CV4033 triple mica, Brimar CV4033 double mica, Sylvania 6201 Gold Brand black plate,  CBS 7728, Raytheon 7728, Valvo Ecc81 Square getter, Valvo Ecc81 coin base d getter, Philips 6201 pinched waist triple mica d getter, Lorenz ECC81 foil d getter, Amperex Ecc81 foil d getter.

12ax7/ecc83



Raytheon 7729 and Brimar CV4035

Rectifiers

Ez81/6ca4



Left to right - Mullard Ez81 square getter, Valvo o getter ez81, Raytheon Japan ez81 triple mica square getter, Telefunken ez81,and G.E.C. U709

Power tubes

el84/7189



Left to right - Mullard El84 Rx1 Square getter, Valvo El84 dish getter (1 hole plate), Valvo el84 dish getter (3 hole plate), Amperex 7189 d getter Holland, Philips el84 d getter Heerlen Holland

El84 cont.




Tungsram el84 dish getter (first version)

I can't wait to hear all these in the Pendant SE, and will report back once I do.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Don't have my Pendant yet, but I have been collecting tubes for it for a whole now, and here is what I will be rolling when I do get my Pendant SE.
> 
> Driver Tubes
> 
> ...


That looks like a lot of fun bro. Lol. Curious to see what combination you choose.


----------



## pkcpga

Wes S said:


> Don't have my Pendant yet, but I have been collecting tubes for it for a whole now, and here is what I will be rolling when I do get my Pendant SE.
> 
> Driver Tubes
> 
> ...


Nice collection, my favorites so far are: Mazda 12au7 long getter or Amperex 6201 12at7 gold pin with Amperex el84’s and a Siemens el81.  The Mullards were a bit too laid back for my personal taste.  Putting the one Mazda preamp tube added a great energy to my VC’s with the pendant.  The combo kind of combined the energy and bass impact of my Stellias with the smoothness in the mids and highs of my lcd 4’s.  Let us know what combo you wind up liking.


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Don't have my Pendant yet, but I have been collecting tubes for it for a whole now, and here is what I will be rolling when I do get my Pendant SE.
> 
> Driver Tubes
> 
> ...


Nice!

I'm sure you (or some math wiz) could calculate 20 driver tubes + 5 rectifiers + 6 power tubes and get a crazy high number of ALL those potential combinations!!!!!!!!!!

If ANYONE is up to it, it is YOU, Wes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big fun ahead for you.


----------



## markel

Wes S said:


> Don't have my Pendant yet, but I have been collecting tubes for it for a whole now, and here is what I will be rolling when I do get my Pendant SE.
> 
> Driver Tubes
> 
> ...


Very impressive collection. Now I don't feel so bad about buying a smaller stash of tubes before my SE arrives.


----------



## nwavesailor

It's not the cost of the amp, that is fixed. It is the cost of 'feeding' the amp (yes, they do get HUNGRY!) more, better and exotic tubes. Does the Pendant sound good with the stock JJ tubes, YES. Does it sound better with other tubes, absoulutly and only you can decide how far you want to take that in time spent 'on the prowl' as well as total $$$.
It _can_ go to be an obsession pretty quickly!!!


----------



## Wes S

markel said:


> Very impressive collection. Now I don't feel so bad about buying a smaller stash of tubes before my SE arrives.


Thanks!  I am quite proud of this collection and most are quite rare.  I figured this amp is only getting more popular and therefore so are the tubes that it uses.  So, nothing wrong with building up a stash, before they get harder to find.


----------



## pkcpga

Wes S said:


> Thanks!  I am quite proud of this collection and most are quite rare.  I figured this amp is only getting more popular and therefore so are the tubes that it uses.  So, nothing wrong with building up a stash, before they get harder to find.


Justin from amps and sound posted today “working to shift our front end to 12a*7 family.  Test beds ordered... now it’s a wait, build and validate thing.” Could mean even more amps and sound amps running these preamp tubes.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

pkcpga said:


> Justin from amps and sound posted today “working to shift our front end to 12a*7 family.  Test beds ordered... now it’s a wait, build and validate thing.” Could mean even more amps and sound amps running these preamp tubes.


that would be great.  Then, I could re-use existing tubes.


----------



## Wes S

pkcpga said:


> Justin from amps and sound posted today “working to shift our front end to 12a*7 family.  Test beds ordered... now it’s a wait, build and validate thing.” Could mean even more amps and sound amps running these preamp tubes.


Heck yes!  I love these tubes, especially the 12at7.


----------



## Guidostrunk

12at7 is my favorite family of tubes. So many fantastic offerings. Theres definitely something for everyone lol.


----------



## markel

I received my SE today.  Really nice looking.  The tubes are coming separately and I didn't buy an extra rectifier tube, so I have to wait to listen, but I took some pics.  It looks even better up close, but this should give you a flavor of the mood it puts you in.


----------



## cddc

Guidostrunk said:


> 12at7 is my favorite family of tubes. So many fantastic offerings. Theres definitely something for everyone lol.




I have only one question for you, among the 12AU7/12AT7/12AX7 trio, why 12AT7 is the cheapest and least wanted?


----------



## jonathan c

cddc said:


> I have only one question for you, among the 12AU7/12AT7/12AX7 trio, why 12AT7 is the cheapest and least wanted?


Is it gain related: 20 - 60 - 100? AT7 being the “middle child”?...


----------



## cddc

jonathan c said:


> Is it gain related: 20 - 60 - 100? AT7 being the “middle child”?...



dunno, being in the middle 12AT7 is always way cheaper than his brothers


----------



## nwavesailor

cddc said:


> I have only one question for you, among the 12AU7/12AT7/12AX7 trio, why 12AT7 is the cheapest and least wanted?


Have you looked at prices of some of the really great sounding 12AT7 variants? Valvo, Siemens 6201, Rayheon 7728, GEC 29009A? 

BTW, they ALL sound great in the Pendant but, according to Justin at ampsandsound, there is too much current draw using the GEC 2900A in the Pebndant so it's a no-go.

I now have a Bigger Ben and can safely use the A2900 and........ the hype IS real!


----------



## cddc

nwavesailor said:


> Have you looked at prices of some of the really great sounding 12AT7 variants? Valvo, Siemens 6201, Rayheon 7728, GEC 29009A?
> 
> BTW, they ALL sound great in the Pendant but, according to Justin at ampsandsound, there is too much current draw using the GEC 2900A in the Pebndant so it's a no-go.
> 
> I now have a Bigger Ben and can safely use the A2900 and........ the hype IS real!



Rare and good variants always cost more, that's a rule of thumb in tube world, I think rare & good 12AU7/12AX7 variants will cost even more.

In general I find 12AT7 to be the cheapest and least wanted among the trio.


----------



## Guidostrunk

As long as people believe that. It'll keep pricing down lol. There isn't a 12au7 that I prefer over a 12at7. 

For me the 12ax7 is out of the question. The gain is way too high for anything I'm using or have used. 
Sure it'll work in my MJ2 but why bother if you can barely move the volume lol.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> As long as people believe that. It'll keep pricing down lol. There isn't a 12au7 that I prefer over a 12at7.
> 
> For me the 12ax7 is out of the question. The gain is way too high for anything I'm using or have used.
> Sure it'll work in my MJ2 but why bother if you can barely move the volume lol.


Yep.  Again I agree with @Guidostrunk.  Having just gone through lots of the "rare/top tier" 12AU7's and comparing their exact same year/make 12at7, I whole heartedly prefer the 12at7 every time.  The 12at7 all had better dynamics, layering, imaging, soundstage (more holographic), and detail, compared to the 12au7.  The 12au7 are slower and softer, and might be "better" in a certain situation, but I have yet to find it.  

I have not compared the 12ax7 yet, but will when I get my Pendant.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 9, 2021)

cddc said:


> Rare and good variants always cost more, that's a rule of thumb in tube world, I think rare & good 12AU7/12AX7 variants will cost even more.
> 
> In general I find 12AT7 to be the cheapest and least wanted among the trio.


I wish this was true.  Having been researching for months and just stocked up on some rare & good 12at7, 12au7, and 12ax7, I can assure you it is not.  The pricing is the same or similar for all the rare and good 12au7, 12at7, and 12au7 tubes at the moment.

Happy hunting.


----------



## Tom-s

nwavesailor said:


> BTW, they ALL sound great in the Pendant but, according to Justin at ampsandsound, there is too much current draw using the GEC A2900 in the Pendant so it's a no-go.



I can't completely understand why. 

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/pdf/a2900.pdf

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/1/12AT7.pdf

The heater current is 0.4A vs 0.3A for a normal 12AT7. This minimal change in heater current should not make a change on an amplifier like the Pendant (with big 6.3V power tubes). It also biases within 5% of any other 12AT7. I don't completely understand why the amp would accept 12AT7 but not A2900 when comparing the curves.

Partially because, some users even use tubes that draw far more heater current. Like the JJ ECC99 (there's also mention of 12BH7) that consumes 0.8A @ 6.3V. 



ampsandsound said:


> One last thing.... I love JJ ECC99s on the Pendant... I also enjoy Japanese Mullard 12AU7s.


----------



## AngryTank

Guidostrunk said:


> As long as people believe that. It'll keep pricing down lol. There isn't a 12au7 that I prefer over a 12at7.
> 
> For me the 12ax7 is out of the question. The gain is way too high for anything I'm using or have used.
> Sure it'll work in my MJ2 but why bother if you can barely move the volume lol.


That was my problem with the Little Dot Mk VIII SE which uses 12AT7s, I felt like it just doesn’t give you much space to move, going past 9 o’clock would just burst my ears.


----------



## Guidostrunk

AngryTank said:


> That was my problem with the Little Dot Mk VIII SE which uses 12AT7s, I felt like it just doesn’t give you much space to move, going past 9 o’clock would just burst my ears.


The LP is the same way. Even with 12au7 on adapters it didn't help with the volume. The gain is almost half of a 6922. I even modded my LP with caps and an Alps rk27 pot and it did nothing for gain. 
Some of these companies worry about hard to drive planars and do not incorporate a gain switch for sensitive cans which is silly. Biggest flaw of the LP imo. The MJ2 has a switch for low and high gain. I get plenty of volume on low gain for my Clears now.


----------



## cddc

Wes S said:


> Yep.  Again I agree with @Guidostrunk.  Having just gone through lots of the "rare/top tier" 12AU7's and comparing their exact same year/make 12at7, I whole heartedly prefer the 12at7 every time.  The 12at7 all had better dynamics, layering, imaging, soundstage (more holographic), and detail, compared to the 12au7.  The 12au7 are slower and softer, and might be "better" in a certain situation, but I have yet to find it.
> 
> I have not compared the 12ax7 yet, but will when I get my Pendant.




I don't have lots of experience using 12AT7 tubes, hahah  I am only interested in finding out possible reasons why 12AT7 normally sells for much less than his brothers, 12AU7 (younger) and 12AX7 (older). I noticed the price differences when I was shopping for 12AU7 tubes at some point in time.

If you prefer 12AT7 to 12AU7 in pendant, you can possibly also try the 12AX7 variants, which have even higher gains.

Besides prices and gains, another difference I notice is the plate length. Lots of 12AT7's seem to have much shorter plates than 12AU7/12AX7, and 6DJ7/6922 has the same properties as 12AT7 in this regard. Plate is a key component in tubes, as longer plate provides larger surface to receive the electrons from cathode. I don't know how it affects the sound, but I do notice "long plate" became a selling point in 12AU7/12AX7, the long plate variants normally require a premium over the regular ones.


----------



## robo24

Anyone know the dimensions? It's not on the ZMF site that I can find. Just trying to figure out my next setup in my limited space.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

12 3/4” wide x 9 3/4” deep x 6 1/4” tall


----------



## hikaru12

steve468 said:


> Dematted: I'm not sure it's a matter of weaknesses, but more a matter of trade-offs of presentations. I would say that it's not as tubey as some amps. I recently got a Bottlehead Crack, and in comparison the Pendant has more slam, more details, more extension top and bottom, but it misses that softer sound and midrange focus that the Crack gives.
> 
> The pendant is also not quite as tight as the Schiit Ragnarok. The Rag is more lean, making it a slightly faster amp, while the Pendant's sound has more flesh on it's bones, which means it's ever so slightly slower.
> 
> But all 3 amps have a place in my listening (yes, even the Crack) depending on what I'm listening to and my mood.



Thanks for this impression. Other then redoing the traces and a lot of odds and ends I’m doing a majority of the big mods to my Crack so wondering if it’s worth getting the Pendant for my Eikon. I recently got a NOS DAC so having a little extra air on top wouldn’t hurt but ultimately I doubt the amp would affect it too much. It does excel with midrange detail, positioning and focus so pairing with the BHC might be better for me.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I picked up 4 of my favorite 12au7 to go with the 2 I already have lol.  Now I just need my new SE and I should be good for a few years.  When I sell my OG Pendant, I’ll probably add in the 12xx7’s I don’t use.  I’m pretty new to the tube scene.  What’s an average life span for a 12au7?  I use it for probably 7 hours a week.


----------



## AngryTank

Out of all of you who have received the SE how is it? If possible how’s it compare to the OG?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Looking forward to hearing impressions as well. I ordered mine the last night of the preorder so I figure mine is a few weeks out still.  Some must be out on the street by now though.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> Looking forward to hearing impressions as well. I ordered mine the last night of the preorder so I figure mine is a few weeks out still.  Some must be out on the street by now though.


I’m in the same boat, I purchased mine the morning of last day.


----------



## gugges

Justin posted a great picture today on Instagram of 19 burl chassis ready to get married to the amps. The burl looks so darn good I can't wait to see it in person


----------



## AngryTank

gugges said:


> Justin posted a great picture today on Instagram of 19 burl chassis ready to get married to the amps. The burl looks so darn good I can't wait to see it in person


I just saw them and wow they look gorgeous. I really hope one of those is mine. 😂


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The boards are progressing!  I saw a picture on the Ampsandsound Facebook page. You can see the Jupiter caps. Really hoping one of those is mine!


----------



## ampsandsound

We start in Ernest this Monday with the next batch run. Should be through 6 by Friday.


----------



## AngryTank

ampsandsound said:


> We start in Ernest this Monday with the next batch run. Should be through 6 by Friday.


You wouldn’t happen to know how long the line is looking?


----------



## Celty (Apr 4, 2021)

ampsandsound said:


> We start in Ernest this Monday with the next batch run. Should be through 6 by Friday.


This is Ernest:





Perhaps you meant "earnest"?


----------



## ampsandsound

Be kind to the dyslexic... I dont know how long the line is. That said, we are making good progress. There was alot of setup time.


----------



## Wes S

ampsandsound said:


> We start in Ernest this Monday with the next batch run. Should be through 6 by Friday.


That's awesome!  I can't wait to get mine, and know it will be worth the wait.


----------



## Bonddam

Just purchased a used Pendant this will be my 2nd time owning one. I didn't sell it last time because of not liking it. Anyways never tubed rolled on it. It be cool is I could use my 6sn7 adapter in the 12au7 like I do on my Crack. So I have 2 Amperex 12au7 bugle boys great tube but pricey. Don't care about the rectifier as much. I a looking at spending money on the EL84. I'm going through the options on eBay to see whats out there but can't decide on a brand. I'll spend max of $100 for two. bass and treble don't want solid state sound I have that with my Tung Sol 7236.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 9, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> Just purchased a used Pendant this will be my 2nd time owning one. I didn't sell it last time because of not liking it. Anyways never tubed rolled on it. It be cool is I could use my 6sn7 adapter in the 12au7 like I do on my Crack. So I have 2 Amperex 12au7 bugle boys great tube but pricey. Don't care about the rectifier as much. I a looking at spending money on the EL84. I'm going through the options on eBay to see whats out there but can't decide on a brand. I'll spend max of $100 for two. bass and treble don't want solid state sound I have that with my Tung Sol 7236.


Hey man!  That's awesome you got another one.  I have a ton of tubes ready to go, all Top Tier NOS (driver, power, and rectifiers) and will be sharing my experiences here and on the other site too, once I get mine (hopefully not much longer ).  Amperex Bugle Boy 12au7 is a great tube, especially the long plate foil d getter version.  Curious about adapter tubes as well, as I have not heard anything on the subject yet.  If you like the Amperex sound, you might look into their EL84's as well.  Look for some early D Getters, from Holland.


----------



## hikaru12

I would imagine the 6SN7 should work as it has less gain and power requirements (especially if the Pendant can do 12X which can do 100x gain). Clearance is probably the issue. If someone wants to measure the distance between the 12AU socket and the EL84 sockets that would be helpful to confirm.


----------



## Bonddam

The Amprexe I have are d foil getters if Amperex makes good el84 I'll look for those.
Justin was hesitant about me using 6sn7.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 9, 2021)

I have asked Justin about various tubes that I wanted to try in the Pendant and also a Bigger Ben. He has given me advice regarding what is fine and some others that would not work and why.

It's your Pendant and you can put in any tube you want but I tend to go with the advice of the amp builder.


----------



## robo24

I rolled about 10 sets of EL84 in the Tuba amp and stumbled upon the $99 NOS Amperex EL84 used matched pair and I prefer them strongly over all the others I tried, some of which cost more. Widest soundstage and more bass than the rest (which the Tuba needed) http://www.audiotubes.com/6bq5.htm


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

We just need our SEs to start arriving!


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> We just need our SEs to start arriving!


Yes! It’s like waiting for my Auteur all over Again!


----------



## AngryTank

Okay so In anticipation of my Pendant SE what tubes do y’all recommend more specifically what combo?


----------



## robo24

Curious if anyone who ordered by the end of Feb has actually received an SE yet. Was certainly hoping to have mine by now to compare, sell other equipment, and pay off my credit card charge for it but figured it would take longer than estimated initially (which is great if they got a ton of orders). As my order was on 3/1 I expect to be among the last so it would be great to hear that some have received them. Would be helpful to get some idea since I'll just sell stuff now if it's going to be more than another month.


----------



## AngryTank

robo24 said:


> Curious if anyone who ordered by the end of Feb has actually received an SE yet. Was certainly hoping to have mine by now to compare, sell other equipment, and pay off my credit card charge for it but figured it would take longer than estimated initially (which is great if they got a ton of orders). As my order was on 3/1 I expect to be among the last so it would be great to hear that some have received them. Would be helpful to get some idea since I'll just sell stuff now if it's going to be more than another month.


So I had reached out to Zach because I purchased another Pendant in the meantime, and he said that “A Lot” of Pendants were going to be going out this week. Not sure how many is a lot but I’d expect at least the ones that they showed on their Instagram which was like 20 chassis 3 weeks ago and I’d expect a lot to be at least 10 considering they showed the progress too.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Fingers crossed.....


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Fingers crossed.....


Right there with ya.


----------



## Xirrin

Mine arrived, yes. Haven't had much of a chance to spend time with it so nothing to say at the moment other than it sounds wonderful. 

Ordered on 2/8/21
Delivered on 4/6/21


----------



## AngryTank

Xirrin said:


> Mine arrived, yes. Haven't had much of a chance to spend time with it so nothing to say at the moment other than it sounds wonderful.
> 
> Ordered on 2/8/21
> Delivered on 4/6/21


I wish there were more pictures, these walnut Burl SEs look like Eye candy.


----------



## Wes S

Xirrin said:


> Mine arrived, yes. Haven't had much of a chance to spend time with it so nothing to say at the moment other than it sounds wonderful.
> 
> Ordered on 2/8/21
> Delivered on 4/6/21


Damn!  That Walnut Burl looks incredible.  Here's hoping mine looks like that.


----------



## AngryTank

Xirrin said:


> Mine arrived, yes. Haven't had much of a chance to spend time with it so nothing to say at the moment other than it sounds wonderful.
> 
> Ordered on 2/8/21
> Delivered on 4/6/21


Pardon me asking, but did you by chance realize your rectifier and preamp tube are misplaced or is yours different?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 15, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> Pardon me asking, but did you by chance realize your rectifier and preamp tube are misplaced or is yours different?


Yikes and good catch!  I hope he did not turn it on like that, or would even power up?  Definitely not in the right sockets.


----------



## Xirrin

AngryTank said:


> I wish there were more pictures, these walnut Burl SEs look like Eye candy.



Ask and ye shall receive. 130 pound Great Dane and Leopardwood VC for reference.


----------



## Xirrin

AngryTank said:


> Pardon me asking, but did you by chance realize your rectifier and preamp tube are misplaced or is yours different?


Hah! Good catch. I tossed tubes in quick to snap a couple pictures and didn't even notice, but took them out again right away and put it back in the box until the vintage tubes from ZMF arrived a couple days later.


----------



## AngryTank

Xirrin said:


> Ask and ye shall receive. 130 pound Great Dane and Leopardwood VC for reference.


Absolutely stunning I can’t wait for the to see mine. That’s dog is enormous wouldn’t be a great dane if it didn’t make the amp look like it’s not even half the size of the measurements!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 15, 2021)

Xirrin said:


> Ask and ye shall receive. 130 pound Great Dane and Leopardwood VC for reference.


Stunning and loved the dog size reference pic!  I will be over the moon happy, if mine looks that good.


----------



## Bonddam

I’ll have to live with the old Pendant. The hum isn’t to much have some nice tubes. It’s a bit bass light on Solitaire P but Empyrean is good. Have connected to May KTE dac and really sounds good. This is my 2nd one and my brain remembers it being bigger but it’s small. Mine was was bought 2nd hand with the better caps. No tube rolling but my previous one was warm sounding compared to the 2nd one.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thankfully, you do have other tube hybrid and tube amps that pair nicely with your P!
I didn't have the P when I owned my Pendant, but the Bigger Ben sure does make the P shine with no lack of bass!!!


----------



## robo24

Xirrin said:


> Mine arrived, yes. Haven't had much of a chance to spend time with it so nothing to say at the moment other than it sounds wonderful.
> 
> Ordered on 2/8/21
> Delivered on 4/6/21


Thanks for that info and all the pics. I've been thinking so much about the amp sound itself that it's nice to see I'll have yet another work of art on my desk!


----------



## AngryTank

MY AMP IS ON THW WAY!!! I Don’t know why I’m more Hyped than when my Autuer was being shipped. Maybe it’s because I know I’ll be enjoying a great headphone even more.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

so jealous right now......


----------



## Wes S (Apr 15, 2021)

You are not alone.    Seeing that beautiful Burl has got me even more excited.


----------



## AngryTank

Perfect timing on the tubes I just ordered. Probably won’t use them right away until I get a feel for the amp with stock.


----------



## robo24

AngryTank said:


> Perfect timing on the tubes I just ordered. Probably won’t use them right away until I get a feel for the amp with stock.


Can you share your order date for the Pendant?


----------



## AngryTank

robo24 said:


> Can you share your order date for the Pendant?


Same day as almost everyone waiting, 2/28 but I ordered early in the morning.


----------



## robo24

AngryTank said:


> Same day as almost everyone waiting, 2/28 but I ordered early in the morning.


Excellent, thanks!


----------



## lucasratmundo (Apr 17, 2021)

Any owners of the Pendant and Euforia around? How do they compare?

(Edit: Decided to go with the Pendant after reading/watching a few more reviews)


----------



## lucasratmundo

Ordered a Pendant SE on April 15 and it got shipped on the next day! Can't wait


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

lucasratmundo said:


> Ordered a Pendant SE on April 15 and it got shipped on the next day! Can't wait


How is that?  I ordered February 28 and I’m still waiting.


----------



## AngryTank

lucasratmundo said:


> Ordered a Pendant SE on April 15 and it got shipped on the next day! Can't wait


Are you sure it’s an SE and not an OG?


----------



## lucasratmundo

AngryTank said:


> Are you sure it’s an SE and not an OG?


I really hope it's a SE as this is what I ordered


----------



## lucasratmundo

4LoveOfSound said:


> How is that?  I ordered February 28 and I’m still waiting.


I ordered the SE with vintage tubes and European voltage. Maybe the demand for this specific configuration is smaller and/or I got lucky due to another cancelled order or something?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 17, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> I ordered the SE with vintage tubes and European voltage. Maybe the demand for this specific configuration is smaller and/or I got lucky due to another cancelled order or something?


That has to be the case, and congrats on your choice.  I was looking at both amps you were and made the same choice.


----------



## AngryTank

lucasratmundo said:


> I ordered the SE with vintage tubes and European voltage. Maybe the demand for this specific configuration is smaller and/or I got lucky due to another cancelled order or something?


Okay that makes sense, last time I checked the shipping times for the 230v version was the same as the Pendant OG.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

@Wes S  I got my shipping notice today.  Did you get yours?  Mine is coming from Illinois which surprised me.  Last time, my Pendant shipped direct from California.  I'm ok with that because I should have it for the weekend!


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S  I got my shipping notice today.  Did you get yours?  Mine is coming from Illinois which surprised me.  Last time, my Pendant shipped direct from California.  I'm ok with that because I should have it for the weekend!


Good to know, a lot of us are the 2/28 orders.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S  I got my shipping notice today.  Did you get yours?  Mine is coming from Illinois which surprised me.  Last time, my Pendant shipped direct from California.  I'm ok with that because I should have it for the weekend!


Not yet, but hopefully soon.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S  I got my shipping notice today.  Did you get yours?  Mine is coming from Illinois which surprised me.  Last time, my Pendant shipped direct from California.  I'm ok with that because I should have it for the weekend!


You order vintage tubes? Trying to figure out why it’s coming from Illinois.


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> You order vintage tubes? Trying to figure out why it’s coming from Illinois.


I did, and not sure on that, as well.  I am really getting excited and hope mine gets shipped soon.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

AngryTank said:


> You order vintage tubes? Trying to figure out why it’s coming from Illinois.


I did not order vintage tubes. I already have tubes I like in my OG


----------



## lucasratmundo

Received my Pendant SE with vintage tubes yesterday! Had a long session with the VC+Pendant pairing last night. _So good_. I'll go through my headphone collection in the next days/weeks.

Quick tip for those who don't like to see cables coming out of the Pendant's top panel: I used 90-degree RCA and mains adapters (see attached images) to hide the cables a bit. Looks a bit tidier this way.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Are those the Audioquest 90 degree adapters?  That’s what I’m using. They’re relatively inexpensive.


----------



## Wes S

I am chomping at the bit!  Seeing all these Pendant's showing up.  Hopefully, mine gets shipped soon.


----------



## lucasratmundo

4LoveOfSound said:


> Are those the Audioquest 90 degree adapters?  That’s what I’m using. They’re relatively inexpensive.



Yep, Audioquest adapters


----------



## domi

lucasratmundo said:


> Received my Pendant SE with vintage tubes yesterday! Had a long session with the VC+Pendant pairing last night. _So good_. I'll go through my headphone collection in the next days/weeks.
> 
> Quick tip for those who don't like to see cables coming out of the Pendant's top panel: I used 90-degree RCA and mains adapters (see attached images) to hide the cables a bit. Looks a bit tidier this way.



Looks beautiful! What tubes did it come with?


----------



## lucasratmundo

domi said:


> Looks beautiful! What tubes did it come with?


I'm no expert in tubes but they seem to be Baldwin tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S could confirm this. Baldwin are TungSol?


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Wes S could confirm this. Baldwin are TungSol?


Baldin is just a rebrander, that used several different U.S. tube brands.  I have seen, Westinghouse, Raytheon, RCA and Sylvania.  It wouldn't surprise me if they rebranded TungSol too, as they were made in U. S., but I have not seen any.


----------



## nwavesailor

Whoops.................. the 12au7 ones I have are Raytheon production, not TS.


----------



## SteveA

Baldwin as in The Baldwin Piano and Organ Company?  I could see where they would rebrand tubes for their organ amplifiers.


----------



## Wes S

SteveA said:


> Baldwin as in The Baldwin Piano and Organ Company?  I could see where they would rebrand tubes for their organ amplifiers.


You are correct.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Anyone else NOT pickup on the fact the SE only has 1 input instead of 2 like the OG?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

It arrived today, but I haven't had a chance to switch them out yet.  I did of course look at it and that was when I realized there is only 1 input.  I'm currently using both on the OG.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> It arrived today, but I haven't had a chance to switch them out yet.  I did of course look at it and that was when I realized there is only 1 input.  I'm currently using both on the OG.


Mine doesn’t arrive until Monday supposedly, but I haven’t looked at the inputs.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Well she's up and running!  I was able to do a side by side comparison with late 2020 OG.  I had to use the stock JJ tubes because I don't have a matching second set of power tubes other than the JJs.  The new volume control is nice.  It clicks with detents and gives a little more usability.  Not a ton though.  Only about two numbers on the clock.  So my OG volume knob was around 7 o'clock on high z, the SE is around 9 o'clock.  The volume doesn't ramp up as fast on the SE either.  As I stated above, the SE only has one input vs two on the OG.  I would have liked to still have the second input, but can live with just one.  Sound wise, they are very very close.  The SE has a slight edge in my opinion.  I find it is slightly clearer sounding, the treble is slightly smoother but not veiled in anyway, bass is comparable.  When I put my better tubes in (Hammond black plate EC84, RCA orange label 12au7, Hammond grey plate EC81), what grabbed my attention was that it is more holographic sounding.  With instrumental music (piano, cello, acoustic guitar) I can hear more reverb and strings have a longer decay, which I like.  I've been listening to these tubes in my OG for over a month pretty much daily.  The difference when fired up in the SE was very noticeable.  Quality tubes may have more of an effect on the SE......  Noise wise, about the same.  My OG is very quiet.  It wasn't at first though.  I had an audible transformer hum and a relatively annoying hum audible via high z output.  As I put more hours on it, the sitting transformer hum went away and the hum via the high z output lessened to where it's barely audible at all anymore.  The SE has a similar transformer hum and the high z hum but not nearly as bad as the OG was new.  I expect both to go away as the OG's did.  The high z hum can only be heard between songs with the SE.  My OG you have to pause the song and really listen to hear it now.  Low z on both is super quiet.  I can update on this as I put more hours on the SE.

Looks wise, I love the walnut burl!  My camphor burl OG is pretty tool!  I do prefer the walnut burl though.  I'll be replacing the black plastic volume knob with a walnut one when ZMF makes them available.

If anyone is looking, or knows someone looking, for a late model OG with a nice camphor burl chassis, I know where you can get one.......  I'll be posting mine shortly.

Oh, those are not the stock rubber feet in the photos.  I replaced them with SVS SoundPath subwoofer isolation feet.


----------



## AngryTank

What does the packaging look like for the amp?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

AngryTank said:


> What does the packaging look like for the amp?


This case inside a cardboard box.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

UPDATE:  The external transformer hum is gone and the high z hum has reduced.  Still more than my OG, but significantly less than yesterday.  I have about 24 hours on it now.


----------



## Thanatosid (Apr 25, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> UPDATE:  The external transformer hum is gone and the high z hum has reduced.  Still more than my OG, but significantly less than yesterday.  I have about 24 hours on it now.


Thank you so much for updating on this. It’s keeping me sane right now . I received an OG on Thursday and the hum has had me very concerned. I also have a bit of a crackling or “record needle” sound coming from the amp. I’ve got clean power coming from a Monster power box, so I’m hopeful this is just a burn-in thing. The amp sounds incredible otherwise. I’ll also keep the thread updated since so many new amps are going out right now.

Tidal/Roon -> Chord Hugo 2 -> ZMF Pendant OG -> Verite Open


----------



## nwavesailor

Could it be tube noise?


----------



## AngryTank

Thanatosid said:


> Thank you so much for updating on this. It’s keeping me sane right now . I received an OG on Thursday and the hum has had me very concerned. I also have a bit of a crackling or “record needle” sound coming from the amp. I’ve got clean power coming from a Monster power box, so I’m hopeful this is just a burn-in thing. The amp sounds incredible otherwise. I’ll also keep the thread updated since so many new amps are going out right now.
> 
> Tidal/Roon -> Chord Hugo 2 -> ZMF Pendant OG -> Verite Open


How much was the Monster box? Iirc didn’t Zach say somewhere that Monsters was the best and cheapest way to power the Pendant.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Thanatosid said:


> Thank you so much for updating on this. It’s keeping me sane right now . I received an OG on Thursday and the hum has had me very concerned. I also have a bit of a crackling or “record needle” sound coming from the amp. I’ve got clean power coming from a Monster power box, so I’m hopeful this is just a burn-in thing. The amp sounds incredible otherwise. I’ll also keep the thread updated since so many new amps are going out right now.
> 
> Tidal/Roon -> Chord Hugo 2 -> ZMF Pendant OG -> Verite Open


Just like the Vérité’s, the Pendant has a break in period.  Mine went through a couple different stages. The crackling seems like a tube issue though.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

On a different note, I was able to figure out who made my Hammond EL84 black plates. They are Sylvania. The Hammond grey plate rectifier is also a Sylvania. A little internet digging on the tube codes was all it took. The EL84s came in RCA boxes so I thought they were made by RCA, but it turns out that is not the case.


----------



## Thanatosid

AngryTank said:


> How much was the Monster box? Iirc didn’t Zach say somewhere that Monsters was the best and cheapest way to power the Pendant.


Zach did bring up using Monster in this thread. I've had this box (Amazon Link) for years and was thrilled when I remembered that I had it hidden in a cabinet being under utilized.  I immediately moved it up to my system.

The crackle sound could very well be the Vintage Baldwins sent with the Pendant.  I'll do some testing there since it seems isolated to one side.  I'll swap the tubes and see if the sounds shifts to the other cup.

The hum DOES seem to be getting less apparent.  I'll keep burning and update again soon.


----------



## AngryTank

How are you guys burning in your amps? Do you constantly have music playing or do you just leave it on?


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> How are you guys burning in your amps? Do you constantly have music playing or do you just leave it on?


Don't have my Pendant yet, but I always burn in my tube amps, with music playing.


----------



## AngryTank

Well it’s Tuesday, and it doesn’t look like my Amp will arrive today, it’s still early but I’ve never had a FedEx package not be “Out For delivery” past 9am and after having the Original Arrival day be Yesterday, but then it getting here in state by Saturday, said it would be out for delivery same day but later changed to next “business day”, but it didn’t go out Monday  and now not even today. I truly despise FedEx shipping, Doesn’t matter if it’s 2 day shipping, Overnite, or Standard Ground, FedEx knows how to make sure my packages never arrive on time and then change dates.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Sorry to hear that. I haven’t had any issues with FedEx, but the USPS has been messing with me a lot. One of my last packages arrived in CT, the state I live in. I thought great right on time. Then on delivery day, no package. Instead it went to Massachusetts, then New Hampshire, then Rhode Island, back to Massachusetts and finally to Connecticut again 3 days late.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> Sorry to hear that. I haven’t had any issues with FedEx, but the USPS has been messing with me a lot. One of my last packages arrived in CT, the state I live in. I thought great right on time. Then on delivery day, no package. Instead it went to Massachusetts, then New Hampshire, then Rhode Island, back to Massachusetts and finally to Connecticut again 3 days late.


I think it really depends on where you live, USPS has given me a bit trouble when it comes to International packages, UPS has been pretty good around here, 1 day delivery for ground packages within the North east, but FedEx is consistently making the same mistake, giving a date, then saying it will arrive sooner, and then say it’s arriving later than the original date.


----------



## hikaru12

Thanatosid said:


> Thank you so much for updating on this. It’s keeping me sane right now . I received an OG on Thursday and the hum has had me very concerned. I also have a bit of a crackling or “record needle” sound coming from the amp. I’ve got clean power coming from a Monster power box, so I’m hopeful this is just a burn-in thing. The amp sounds incredible otherwise. I’ll also keep the thread updated since so many new amps are going out right now.
> 
> Tidal/Roon -> Chord Hugo 2 -> ZMF Pendant OG -> Verite Open



This hum issue has kept me from getting a Pendant whether OG or SE. I want to see if more people experience this kind of issue. My Crack has me fully satisfied so I guess other than more detail/holography I don't see really much of a reason to upgrade but I'm still curious.


----------



## AngryTank

hikaru12 said:


> This hum issue has kept me from getting a Pendant whether OG or SE. I want to see if more people experience this kind of issue. My Crack has me fully satisfied so I guess other than more detail/holography I don't see really much of a reason to upgrade but I'm still curious.


I’ve used quite a few Tube amps, they all have it to an extent, surprisingly the cheaper ones like Little Dots, Xduo, and Feliks Echo had less of a hum than my Little Dot mk8 SE, and the Elise that I’ve tried, but With my Mk8 it wasn’t always there so it leads me to think something nearby was causing it. However the difference in sound is noticeable, so I think it’s completely up to what you are willing to sacrifice, some hum for better sound or no hum for not as satisfying sound.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 28, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> This hum issue has kept me from getting a Pendant whether OG or SE. I want to see if more people experience this kind of issue. My Crack has me fully satisfied so I guess other than more detail/holography I don't see really much of a reason to upgrade but I'm still curious.


These hum issues, sure seem like it could just be tubes.  And specifically the power tubes.  I should have mine soon, and have a bunch of different tubes that I know are dead silent, so I should be able to verify this on my unit.


----------



## AngryTank

It arrived earlier today and how it feels so good not having to wait anxiously. I’ve been running it all day, and through my 820s I heard no audible hum, thought that maybe I got the gold sample, but once I plugged in my Auteurs low and behold the Hum was there. Been running the amp all day and I’ve been enjoying the stock tubes a lot Hum is no longer present on them. Maybe I need to let them warm up for good while but the rfts and bugle boy have the hum and don’t sound as good to me yet (hopefully).


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> It arrived earlier today and how it feels so good not having to wait anxiously. I’ve been running it all day, and through my 820s I heard no audible hum, thought that maybe I got the gold sample, but once I plugged in my Auteurs low and behold the Hum was there. Been running the amp all day and I’ve been enjoying the stock tubes a lot Hum is no longer present on them. Maybe I need to let them warm up for good while but the rfts and bugle boy have the hum and don’t sound as good to me yet (hopefully).


Nice man!  Let those tube burn in and settled down, and I am sure they will be even more quiet.  I have to say, I have not seen a Walnut Burl Pendant SE that was not just drop dead gorgeous, and yours is no exception.  I am living through you all, and it should not be much longer until I can join in the fun.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Wes S said:


> Don't have my Pendant yet, but I have been collecting tubes for it for a whole now, and here is what I will be rolling when I do get my Pendant SE.
> 
> Driver Tubes
> 
> ...


Awesome! Please share your impressions here once you get the Pendant. I'm very happy with the vintage tubes that I got from ZMF but definitely keen to try different options in the future.


----------



## Wes S

lucasratmundo said:


> Awesome! Please share your impressions here once you get the Pendant. I'm very happy with the vintage tubes that I got from ZMF but definitely keen to try different options in the future.


For sure man!  I actually have acquired quite a few more NOS tubes than pictured as well, and will be documenting the entire rolling process of my collection in this thread.


----------



## AngryTank

As I suspected, Tubes just needed to sit for a bit, gave the RFTs and Bugle-boy some time to warm-up (not sure how much), gave it a quick listen before going to bed and surely enough it sounded really good, I woke up gave it a quick listen before heading to work and It now sounds to my expectations. Much better than stock tubes now.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I'm breaking in a set of Tungsram EL84's.  Very quiet compared to the Hammond/Sylvania I was using.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'm breaking in a set of Tungsram EL84's.  Very quiet compared to the Hammond/Sylvania I was using.


Tungsram makes killer tubes, and especially the early versions with welded plates and dish getters.


----------



## nwavesailor

The Tunsgram were my favorite EL84 with the Pendant


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

nwavesailor said:


> The Tunsgram were my favorite EL84 with the Pendant


They are the best I’ve had, for sure!  The most expensive too.


----------



## Wes S (May 4, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> They are the best I’ve had, for sure!  The most expensive too.


They can be found for very good prices if you are diligent with your search.  The older (better) versions seem to go for less, which is a big plus seeing as they sound better.

Here is an example of some of the better ones, at a very affordable price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESTED-...-/303888337651?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

Here are some even earlier and perhaps first version with welded plates.  The tubes in this listing don't match up as good, but here is some welded plates for reference.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Tungsr...-/203222349112?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## AngryTank

Maybe I’ll have to try some Tunsgrams at some point, I’m loving my RFTs and Bugle Boy with my Autuer, but the HD820 sounds amazing with the stock tubes. I’m honestly surprised that I enjoy the 820 this much.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

This Saturday 9 am PT Premier.  I hope you all enjoy and have a great rest of your week!


----------



## AngryTank

Anyone know if when I move my Headphone cable when connected to my Pendant and it makes like a hissing every now and then, does that mean it’s the headphone cable or the Amp? It only happens when I have my Verite Cable plugged into the Pendant.


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> Anyone know if when I move my Headphone cable when connected to my Pendant and it makes like a hissing every now and then, does that mean it’s the headphone cable or the Amp? It only happens when I have my Verite Cable plugged into the Pendant.


Do you have another cable to try?  If so give it a whirl, and if you still have the issue then it is not the cable.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I have not had any issues with either of my Pendants jacks.


----------



## AngryTank

I found the source of my problem. I had my phone in my pocket under my desk, and My phone had WiFi off and was running off of cellular (not sure if it’s because it was mmwave 5G), but anytime the cable on the desk moved over my phone that was under the desk it made a static/hissing noise. I tried to see if it was a tube or my interconnects, but it turned out to just be my phone when I was using it as a flashlight, I saw I had my WiFi off, and as soon as I turned it back on and it reconnected. The noises stopped completely. Now I know just exactly how sensitive the Pendant can be with interference.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Glad you found the source!  I had a bluetooth receiver right next to mine and it caused noise.  As soon as I put the receiver on the other side of the desk, the noise went away.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> They can be found for very good prices if you are diligent with your search.  The older (better) versions seem to go for less, which is a big plus seeing as they sound better.
> 
> Here is an example of some of the better ones, at a very affordable price.
> 
> ...


The tubes I have must be newer than these, but man do they sound good!  I'm also running a Philco 6CA4 rectifier that I picked up cheap.  I'm not sure if it adds anything.  I do know it doesn't take anything away LOL!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Now that I sold my Pendant OG, I'm looking at Auteurs LOL!  This is not a hobby, it's a sickness!  I love my VCs but the Auteurs where the first ZMFs to catch my eye and I still want to try them.  I have the amp for them after all.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> Now that I sold my Pendant OG, I'm looking at Auteurs LOL!  This is not a hobby, it's a sickness!  I love my VCs but the Auteurs where the first ZMFs to catch my eye and I still want to try them.  I have the amp for them after all.


I’d say we could do a swap and borrow each other’s HP since I really want to try a VC, but I just sealed the deal with someone trying to sell their Olive LTD spot.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Nice!  Those olive wood are beautiful!


----------



## hikaru12

4LoveOfSound said:


> Now that I sold my Pendant OG, I'm looking at Auteurs LOL!  This is not a hobby, it's a sickness!  I love my VCs but the Auteurs where the first ZMFs to catch my eye and I still want to try them.  I have the amp for them after all.


I’m thinking of getting the Auteurs too. I’ve had two of them and I just can’t get over their polite nature. They are very subject to changes in your chain though so I think a well dialed in amp would tune it to my preferences and perhaps your own.


----------



## jonathan c

hikaru12 said:


> I’m thinking of getting the Auteurs too. I’ve had two of them and I just can’t get over their polite nature. They are very subject to changes in your chain though so I think a well dialed in amp would tune it to my preferences and perhaps your own.


If “polite” means ‘seen but not heard’ then I agree with your depiction of the Auteur...


----------



## Wes S (May 11, 2021)

Man, this wait is killing me!  I was really hoping the estimated time frame was a bit exaggerated, but it is most definitely not.  I know patience is a virtue, however I am starting to get so anxious thinking/hoping it is gonna ship any day now, that I can barely sit still.   

In the meantime, what's everyone's favorite driver tube at the moment?  I think it could be cool to know what everyone is rolling, and enjoying.


----------



## hikaru12

jonathan c said:


> If “polite” means ‘seen but not heard’ then I agree with your depiction of the Auteur...



It's very neutral and doesn't call attention to itself. I am personally a flavored can person myself. I like warm, bassy cans with a open nature to them. I'm hoping I can tune the Auteur in that direction but they don't have any real sound to themselves except for a slight warmth in the mids.


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> Man, this wait is killing me!  I was really hoping the estimated time frame was a bit exaggerated, but it is most definitely not.  I know patience is a virtue, however I am starting to get so anxious thinking/hoping it is gonna ship any day now, that I can barely sit still.
> 
> In the meantime, what's everyone's favorite driver tube at the moment?  I think it could be cool to know what everyone is rolling, and enjoying.


Hmm. . .not much activity in this thread, so I guess I am not the only one still waiting.  Really hoping to hear something/anything soon.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Has anyone used ZMF cans and compared the Pendant to another amp and found they prefer the other amp?
 Im trying to decide Pendant SE vs McIntosh MHA-200 vs other sinmilar price tube alternatives vs a solid state in similar price range. I havent heard any of these and they're scarce so Id be buying blind.
Ideally, this would be my only premium amp.


----------



## hikaru12

Bassic Needs said:


> Has anyone used ZMF cans and compared the Pendant to another amp and found they prefer the other amp?
> Im trying to decide Pendant SE vs McIntosh MHA-200 vs other sinmilar price tube alternatives vs a solid state in similar price range. I havent heard any of these and they're scarce so Id be buying blind.
> Ideally, this would be my only premium amp.



That looks like a nice amp and from preliminary discussions about it it seems very transparent but it doesn't allow for many tube rolling options like the Pendant. The Pendant is usually described as a fast amp and a little more hard hitting while the 200 might be more transparent. Hard to compare as most people on this thread havent gotten their SE's in yet and Mcintosh isn't usually sending their amps in to be reviewed by online reviewers.


----------



## robo24

Looks like 9 more coming from their Instagram post.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Also looks like ran out of walnut burl.


----------



## Wes S

robo24 said:


> Looks like 9 more coming from their Instagram post.


Man I hope 1 is mine.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Also looks like ran out of walnut burl.


Those look like matching olive wood for some lucky new VC olive wood owners perhaps?


----------



## 8bitmark

robo24 said:


> Looks like 9 more coming from their Instagram post.


I think I was one of the last pre orders on 2/28 and haven't received shipping info yet, so I hope one of those is for me. Just in case anyone is trying to determine where they are in line.


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> Man, this wait is killing me!  I was really hoping the estimated time frame was a bit exaggerated, but it is most definitely not.  I know patience is a virtue, however I am starting to get so anxious thinking/hoping it is gonna ship any day now, that I can barely sit still.
> 
> In the meantime, what's everyone's favorite driver tube at the moment?  I think it could be cool to know what everyone is rolling, and enjoying.


I’m really loving the el84 RFTs and Amperex Bugle Boy 12au7 with my Auteur a lot. As of know I’m complete happy with how they sound, but if the VC doesn’t sound good with them or the stock tubes (which I really liked on the 820s) I might look for more tubes.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My Telefunken’s arrived today.


----------



## 8bitmark

8bitmark said:


> I think I was one of the last pre orders on 2/28 and haven't received shipping info yet, so I hope one of those is for me. Just in case anyone is trying to determine where they are in line.


And right on cue I just received shipping info. Can't wait to hear it with the verite closed.


----------



## robo24

Same here and wouldn’t be surprised if I was the last pre-order. So excited for Thursday!


----------



## AngryTank

Are any of yours the Olive ones?


----------



## Wes S (May 19, 2021)

robo24 said:


> Same here and wouldn’t be surprised if I was the last pre-order. So excited for Thursday!


Got mine arriving on Friday, and can't wait!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Nice! There should be some pictures and chatter coming later this week!


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Nice! There should be some pictures and chatter coming later this week!


Yes sir!  Gonna be some serious tube chatter, and pics.


----------



## Wes S (May 19, 2021)

I have never been so excited about a piece of gear, as I am about getting the Pendant SE!

I've got my box full of killer NOS tubes ready to rock and roll.  







Just checked the tracking and as long as Fedex keeps things moving, I should have it by Friday or Saturday at the latest.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> I have never been so excited about a piece of gear, as I am about getting the Pendant SE!
> 
> I've got my box full of killer NOS tubes ready to rock and roll.
> 
> ...


and I don’t think you will be disappointed!  I can’t help but stair at the glow while listening.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> and I don’t think you will be disappointed!  I can’t help but stair at the glow while listening.


Love the glow of those EL84's.


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> I have never been so excited about a piece of gear, as I am about getting the Pendant SE!
> 
> I've got my box full of killer NOS tubes ready to rock and roll.
> 
> ...


I am a product of the public schools so not a math wiz but the total combinations of rectifier, input and power tubes in that box must be a HUGE number!!!!


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> I have never been so excited about a piece of gear, as I am about getting the Pendant SE!
> 
> I've got my box full of killer NOS tubes ready to rock and roll.
> 
> ...


In before they don’t deliver until Tuesday.


----------



## Wes S (May 19, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> I am a product of the public schools so not a math wiz but the total combinations of rectifier, input and power tubes in that box must be a HUGE number!!!!


LOL!  Those aren't all of them either.  I am so pumped to be able to really dial in the sound, with all those possible combos.  The tricky part is trying to decide which combo to go with first.  So far I am thinking of starting out with my "Heavy Hitters", the Hamburg Valvo 6201 Pinched Waist triple mica d getter (input), Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters (power), and GEC U709 (rectifier).  I have been dreaming of what this combo could do, and I have a feeling there will be some tears shed once I finally get to hear it.


----------



## domi

Wes S said:


> I have never been so excited about a piece of gear, as I am about getting the Pendant SE!
> 
> I've got my box full of killer NOS tubes ready to rock and roll.
> 
> ...


You should start a tube rental service, I'll be your customer #1!


----------



## Wes S

domi said:


> You should start a tube rental service, I'll be your customer #1!


LOL literally!   Not a bad idea either.


----------



## hikaru12

domi said:


> You should start a tube rental service, I'll be your customer #1!



I'd love a system like this actually. You put down a deposit for the tubes worth, maybe a little extra if it's ultra rare and you get to figure out what sound you like the most when dialed in. Relies on a good network of vetted people but would be an awesome idea!


----------



## AngryTank

hikaru12 said:


> I'd love a system like this actually. You put down a deposit for the tubes worth, maybe a little extra if it's ultra rare and you get to figure out what sound you like the most when dialed in. Relies on a good network of vetted people but would be an awesome idea!


I wouldn’t trust myself with someone else’s expensive tubes, knowing my luck, I’d end up breaking them with my amp somehow.


----------



## Wes S

Woo hoo!  Just got confirmation my Pendant SE is out for delivery.     Gonna be a very fun weekend!


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> Woo hoo!  Just got confirmation my Pendant SE is out for delivery.     Gonna be a very fun weekend!


Wow, you are gonna get it the earliest possible, while I get all my ZMFs the latest possible.


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> Wow, you are gonna get it the earliest possible, while I get all my ZMFs the latest possible.


I guess I am lucky, but Fedex always delivers either on time or early in my area.


----------



## Wes S (May 20, 2021)

The Pendant SE has arrived!  It's not Walnut Burl, which I specifically requested and was assured I would be getting, but it looks killer anyway. 

Say hello to my new Pendant SE in Olive Wood Burl.






I have to admit, it was a bit bitter sweet opening the case and seeing Olive Burl instead of Walnut.  I have been dreaming of seeing the Walnut Burl in person for months now while waiting for my amp to be completed, so this was quite a shock.

I am sure the Olive will grow on me, but when you spend this kind of cash and are told you will be getting Walnut, it kind of hurts the soul a bit that I did not get what I paid for.

Either way, I can't wait to get home and plug this bad boy in.


----------



## Wes S (May 20, 2021)

Just checking back in to say ZMF are taking care of my issue, and I have a Walnut Burl base on the way.    Honestly, I love the Olive Burl, but Walnut Burl is what I had my mind set on, and thankfully this issue can be resolved with a hex key to lossen 4 screws and a new Walnut Burl base.

The good thing about ZMF, is they always take care of their customers and get them fixed up asap.


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> Just checking back in to say ZMF are taking care of my issue, and I have a Walnut Burl base on the way.    Honestly, I love the Olive Burl, but Walnut Burl is what I had my mind set on, and thankfully this issue can be resolved with a hex key to lossen 4 screws and a new Walnut Burl base.
> 
> The good thing about ZMF, is they always take care of their customers and get them fixed up asap.


Mind if I buy that Olive base from you? I’d actually kind of want to match it with my VC, if I decide to keep them when the time comes. Unless you have to return the Olive.


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> Mind if I buy that Olive base from you? I’d actually kind of want to match it with my VC, if I decide to keep them when the time comes. Unless you have to return the Olive.


I am returning it once the Walnut Burl arrives, or I would be more than happy to sell it to you.


----------



## Wes S (May 20, 2021)

Pendant SE is fired up and running!   Took a quick listen, and it has got some punch, but there is definitely some much needed burn in.





For the first roll, I started with an input tube I am very familiar with, the CBS 7728.  As for power tubes, I rolled in some Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters with bottom codes (earliest version).  Lastly, for the rectifier I went straight to the top and rolled in the famous G.E.C. U709.

Let the burn in begin!


----------



## robo24

New toy day! Going to spend time with the stock tubes for a bit to compare to my other tube amps (which will soon be sold). ZERO hum with volume maxed out which is what I was hoping for. The paperwork mentions the high Z being 300 ohm, but I'm guessing that just hasn't been updated since they're really 100 ohm. So glad I have nothing I really need to do today! So many comparisons I want to make and headphones to try out with it. Everything I own is 150 or 300 ohm. Really interested to see how it is with the HD 800 since I keep vacillating between selling or keeping them. This is by far the most expensive tube amp I've heard, and using the TT2 as a DAC, first impressions are simply that it's clearly on another level compared to all the others I've had.


----------



## hikaru12

I’m eager to hear impressions compared to my Bottlehead Crack.


----------



## skewed

robo24 said:


> New toy day! Going to spend time with the stock tubes for a bit to compare to my other tube amps (which will soon be sold). ZERO hum with volume maxed out which is what I was hoping for. The paperwork mentions the high Z being 300 ohm, but I'm guessing that just hasn't been updated since they're really 100 ohm. So glad I have nothing I really need to do today! So many comparisons I want to make and headphones to try out with it. Everything I own is 150 or 300 ohm. Really interested to see how it is with the HD 800 since I keep vacillating between selling or keeping them. This is by far the most expensive tube amp I've heard, and using the TT2 as a DAC, first impressions are simply that it's clearly on another level compared to all the others I've had.


Ooo nice. That's a good setup. Hope ya enjoy it. A&S amps haven't disappointed...


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> I’m eager to hear impressions compared to my Bottlehead Crack.


They are not even close.  This amp is insane!


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> They are not even close.  This amp is insane!


 :O definitely want to see some comparisons between this and your Rogue. I certainly don’t want my amp to hinder the Morpheus now at this point.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> They are not even close.  This amp is insane!


It really is! There is just a heft to it and aspects of the bass which seem like they don't even come out on my other amps, and this is with my HD 800 which is even more impressive. As I've been mostly listening to ZMFs lately the HD 800 treble, even with it having the SDR, was getting on my nerves but it's really taking care of that problem. There's also a weight and dimension to the sound with the Auteur that I haven't experienced before. I'm really thrilled with this purchase and it's already making me feel like my existing headphones have been transformed for the better.


----------



## hikaru12 (May 20, 2021)

robo24 said:


> It really is! There is just a heft to it and aspects of the bass which seem like they don't even come out on my other amps, and this is with my HD 800 which is even more impressive. As I've been mostly listening to ZMFs lately the HD 800 treble, even with it having the SDR, was getting on my nerves but it's really taking care of that problem. There's also a weight and dimension to the sound with the Auteur that I haven't experienced before. I'm really thrilled with this purchase and it's already making me feel like my existing headphones have been transformed for the better.



Definitely would like to read more detailed impressions with it for the Auteur. I’m planning on getting them but I’ve really been disappointed in them in regards to their bass otherwise their soundstage and mids sound superb to my ears. How’s the bass on the Auteurs with the Pendant? Do you feel like it makes it slam more or do they still sound too neutral?


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> :O definitely want to see some comparisons between this and your Rogue. I certainly don’t want my amp to hinder the Morpheus now at this point.


Obviously I am still burning in the Pendant, but been listening for the past 5 hours, and the Pendant SE is definitely in the same league as the RH-5.  They have completely different presentations of the stage, but they are on the same level for sure.  I will do an in depth comparison once I have fully burned in the Pendant and had more time to get a feel for it.  I will say so far I am very impressed.


----------



## Wes S

Did not go to sleep until 3:30am last night, as I just couldn't get enough.    

This amp is crazy good!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I knew you would be happy once you finally got your SE. The pairing with the VC is unbelievable. I don’t have any other ZMF’s yet. Don’t NEED one, but I’d like to try an open back.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I knew you would be happy once you finally got your SE. The pairing with the VC is unbelievable. I don’t have any other ZMF’s yet. Don’t NEED one, but I’d like to try an open back.


It sure is a stellar pairing, and is giving my RH-5 a run for the money.    I will be trying out my Aeolus shortly, then finally my Atticus, but right now I can't stop listening with the VC.  The holographic stage with this pairing is stunning.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> It sure is a stellar pairing, and is giving my RH-5 a run for the money.    I will be trying out my Aeolus shortly, then finally my Atticus, but right now I can't stop listening with the VC.  The holographic stage with this pairing is stunning.


That holographic sound really sucks you in, hence the 3:30am listening session!  I’ve had a couple of those myself!


----------



## gugges

@Wes S Just wait for the Jupiter caps and all the other components to burn in over the next 1000 hours... My Mogwai SE keeps sounding better by the day. Justin told me recently that his amps get quieter and put out something like 15% more power (maybe higher? I forget the exact %) after they burn in.


----------



## Wes S

gugges said:


> @Wes S Just wait for the Jupiter caps and all the other components to burn in over the next 1000 hours... My Mogwai SE keeps sounding better by the day. Justin told me recently that his amps get quieter and put out something like 15% more power (maybe higher? I forget the exact %) after they burn in.


I can't wait, and it is burning in right now.


----------



## Wes S (May 23, 2021)

Still burning my baby in, but I just had to check in and say that one of the stand out traits so far, is the amount of detail coming through in the mids and treble!  I am hearing more little micro details and nuances in the recording, than I have ever heard with my RH-5, and that amp is no slouch at all.     This amp is freaking legit!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

And pretty to look at….
I put the telefunken EL84’s in, wow


----------



## Wes S (May 23, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> And pretty to look at….
> I put the telefunken EL84’s in, wow


Yes sir!  If you like those Tele's but want more/better bass, you should really look into getting a pair of Valvo Hamburg EL84.  The Valvo have just as good if not better extension up top, with stronger and tighter bass, and more natural sounding mids with just as much detail.  Telefunken makes great tubes, but they always seem to be lacking in bass and just don't engage me as much, and this is where the Valvo shines.   However, we all have our favorites.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

More bass?  That’s impressive because the first thing I noticed switching the Tungsram to Telefunken was the increase in bass.  If the Valvo’s have even more, I will have to look into a set of those!


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> More bass?  That’s impressive because the first thing I noticed switching the Tungsram to Telefunken was the increase in bass.  If the Valvo’s have even more, I will have to look into a set of those!


The Valvo are something special.  Here is an example of the version I have, for reference. https://www.ebay.com/itm/114702427287?hash=item1ab4cc2497:g:J~AAAOSwYGJgNohK


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> The Valvo are something special.  Here is an example of the version I have, for reference. https://www.ebay.com/itm/114702427287?hash=item1ab4cc2497:g:J~AAAOSwYGJgNohK


Found a pair.  1958/59. Hamburg Germany made.  Should be on their way tomorrow.


----------



## robo24

Something I'm hoping those with more tube amp experience and understanding of electronics can answer. The info sheet that came with the Pendant said to make sure to plug headphones in before turning on. With other amps I've plugged in and out when they're on and never thought about whether I should be doing that or not. Is there some risk of damage to the amp or headphones in doing this? I've been wanting to do a lot of quick comparing between amps and headphones which means a fair amount of swapping and just seems much more difficult to retain sound changes in the amount of time to turn off and unplug, replug, turn on.


----------



## Wes S (May 23, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Found a pair.  1958/59. Hamburg Germany made.  Should be on their way tomorrow.


Nice, those are the next version after mine with a little different construction, and I have not heard that version before so look forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## ampsandsound

Wow that would be amazing. I love finding NOS tubes to role through... its part of the fun.


----------



## 8bitmark

robo24 said:


> Something I'm hoping those with more tube amp experience and understanding of electronics can answer. The info sheet that came with the Pendant said to make sure to plug headphones in before turning on. With other amps I've plugged in and out when they're on and never thought about whether I should be doing that or not. Is there some risk of damage to the amp or headphones in doing this? I've been wanting to do a lot of quick comparing between amps and headphones which means a fair amount of swapping and just seems much more difficult to retain sound changes in the amount of time to turn off and unplug, replug, turn on.


I just looked over the sheet and didn't see that. I may have missed it. I only saw the warning to make sure the source is plugged in before powering on. I think you may be good on headphones. I could be wrong though.


----------



## ampsandsound

You can leave the amp on and unhook headphones to change to another set.  You shouldn’t do that if using some extension cord for the headphones.  When you unplug the headphones there are loading resistors which are switched back into place protect the amp.  
hope that helps


----------



## AngryTank

ampsandsound said:


> You can leave the amp on and unhook headphones to change to another set.  You shouldn’t do that if using some extension cord for the headphones.  When you unplug the headphones there are loading resistors which are switched back into place protect the amp.
> hope that helps


So if I were to use an Extension cable (while connected to the amp) removed the headphone and only the headphone cable (leaving the extension connected to the amp) to another headphone with its own cable; Then I should turn the amp off before unplugging anything?


----------



## ampsandsound

Unplug the ext cable and headphones while changing.  Do not just unplug the headphones.


----------



## Wes S (May 24, 2021)

Waking early and going to bed late since getting my Pendant SE.   I am already up and listening ( it's only 3:30am  ).  This amp is awesome and highly addictive folks!

Current favorite tube roll - Raytheon 7728 (input), Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters 54' (power), Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter 55' (rectifier). 

 I am "there" with this combo.  The way the stage is presented is so much fun and everything sounds so lifelike it is scary.

Listening to some Pink Floyd - Breathe, and oh my word this is awesome!

@ampsandsound - Justin you are a Wizard, as this amp is pure magic!


----------



## ampsandsound

Super kind words. -Thank you honestly.  You’re up early and I’m just headed to bed.


----------



## robo24

ampsandsound said:


> You can leave the amp on and unhook headphones to change to another set.  You shouldn’t do that if using some extension cord for the headphones.  When you unplug the headphones there are loading resistors which are switched back into place protect the amp.
> hope that helps


Thanks, in my excitement to set it up my brain thought of source of sound as my headphones but of course I know source means input source. I briefly had another tube amp which would make a horrible pop at times when inserting and removing headphones so just wanted also to be certain that wouldn't happen.


----------



## Wes S

My Endgame.


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> My Endgame.


I’m just waiting on my VC and then I’ll have my End game.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> My Endgame.


Looks like the walnut burl chassis arrived.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> My Endgame.


Custom wood fascia for the Sonnets?...


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Is there really such a thing as “end game”? LOL. There’s always something new coming out to entice you. Like the used Rad O’s I just bought.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Is there really such a thing as “end game”? LOL. There’s always something new coming out to entice you. Like the used Rad O’s I just bought.


For some of us that is the goal, and I am one of them.  It's all tubes and music from here on out.


----------



## Wes S (May 25, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Custom wood fascia for the Sonnets?...


They do kind of stand out. . . Funny thing is I wanted all the components to have their own look and stand apart, so went with the silver faced Sonnet stuff, and now I am wondering if I should have gotten all black. . .oh well they sound and look killer to me.


----------



## AngryTank

ampsandsound said:


> Unplug the ext cable and headphones while changing. Do not just unplug the headphones


Good too know, I’ve only been using my Verite cable, but if I want more range I’ll probably swap to my hart audio cables.


----------



## hikaru12 (May 25, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Still burning my baby in, but I just had to check in and say that one of the stand out traits so far, is the amount of detail coming through in the mids and treble!  I am hearing more little micro details and nuances in the recording, than I have ever heard with my RH-5, and that amp is no slouch at all.     This amp is freaking legit!



I had a feeling it would sound like that as the EL84's are in ultralinear mode so that extra power will help bring out the microdetails hidden in the background. That's definitely interesting as I listen to a lot of instrumentals which would be well suited to it. Now if the bass blows my current tube combo out on the Crack I'd be seriously impressed. Do you feel like the EL84s adjust the sound less than the driver 12AT7 tube?


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> I had a feeling it would sound like that as the EL84's are in ultralinear mode so that extra power will help bring out the microdetails hidden in the background. That's definitely interesting as I listen to a lot of instrumentals which would be well suited to it. Now if the bass blows my current tube combo out on the Crack I'd be seriously impressed. Do you feel like the EL84s adjust the sound less than the driver 12AT7 tube?


I can confirm the bass definitely blows any tube combo you can roll in the BHC out of the water.  It's not really even a contest, if you ask me.  The BHC is a great amp, but does not get anywhere close to what the Pendant SE can do with good tubes.  Depending on what tubes I roll, I can get the bass tight and linear, or fat and slamming.

The input tube definitely has the most effect, but the power tubes are a close second.  I can also hear differences with the rectifier, but it is not as pronounced as the other 2.


----------



## hikaru12 (May 25, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I can confirm the bass definitely blows any tube combo you can roll in the BHC out of the water.  It's not really even a contest, if you ask me.  The BHC is a great amp, but does not get anywhere close to what the Pendant SE can do with good tubes.  Depending on what tubes I roll, I can get the bass tight and linear, or fat and slamming.
> 
> The input tube definitely has the most effect, but the power tubes are a close second.  I can also hear differences with the rectifier, but it is not as pronounced as the other 2.



Don’t tell me that man! I ain’t got the money haha. I wonder if anyone can then chime in if you can use a 6SN7 adapter in the driver tube spot?  @ampsandsound If you could roll one of the Ken Rad Black Glass you turned me on to would like to see how that would sound in your Pendant.

What tubes do you recommend for fat thundering bass? I want the Auteur to sound as close to the Eikon in that regard as possible. I still have that Valvo you recommended for the driver tube which sounds nice and airy with good bass.


----------



## Wes S (May 25, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Don’t tell me that man! I ain’t got the money haha. I wonder if anyone can then chime in if you can use a 6SN7 adapter in the driver tube spot?  @ampsandsound If you could roll one of the Ken Rad Black Glass you turned me on to would like to see how that would sound in your Pendant.
> 
> What tubes do you recommend for fat thundering bass? I want the Auteur to sound as close to the Eikon in that regard as possible. I still have that Valvo you recommended for the driver tube which sounds nice and airy with good bass.


I don't know about the 6sn7 with adapter, but with the sound I am getting with my 12au7 and 12at7's,  I am not even curious.  Also, there are so many more choices when you stay with the 12au7, 12at7, 12ax7 tubes vs. 6sn7.  I really only like a couple 6sn7's vs. the plethora of 12a_7's I own.

As far as fat and thunderous bass, some tubes that can do it are, Mullard Blackburn ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter, Amperex ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter, Brimar CV4034, Brimar CV4033, CBS-HYTRON 5814a Black Plate Square Getter and Mullard Blackburn EL84 Square Getters to name a few.


----------



## steve468

I have a couple Ken-Rads from the '40s (a 12au7 and a 5814) that have pretty much the same sound, and especially that same fat bass, as the 6sn7 (which I use in a Crack). I have not tried a 6sn7 with the Pendant (OG in my case), and would be VERY hesitant to do so unless the amp designer specifically said it was okay.

I'm with the poster above in saying there's more than enough tubes in the 12a_7 family to keep you busy. Just look at some of the impressive collections in this thread!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The Valvo’s arrived yesterday. I’m working 15 hour shifts and will be away the next 3 weekends, so it’s going to be a while before I can give any impressions. The Rad O’s I picked up arrive early next week. Same thing, won’t have much time to listen to them, but still excited to be getting them!


----------



## AngryTank

Anyone know when the wooden knobs will be available for purchase? Was there an estimated time of when they’d be available?


----------



## Wes S (May 29, 2021)

So, it's been a week now of burn in with my Pendant SE and I am nearing the 60 hour mark, and I have noticed a few things worth mentioning.  First and foremost, the sound has become more refined and the bass really tightened up, and this amp has really good balance top to bottom.  Next and more importantly, I know other's have mentioned this and as someone who has played around with tube amps and tubes for years, this amp is VERY susceptible to noise.  From the start, I have had a pretty significant hum from the high Z (100 ohm tap), that was so loud at the start that I could almost feel it, but knowing tube amps I was sure the hum would go down a bit after burn in and sure enough it has.  I have even tried 4 different pairs of power tubes, 4 rectifiers, and 6 input tubes all with the same hum, including the stock JJ tubes.  After rolling all those tubes without changing the hum, I just figured this was something I would have to live with, and it has been sounding so damn good I decided I was fine with it.  During my quest to lower the hum, at one point I was checking all the connections in the back and making sure the power cords were not touching and things like that, and I was using a flashlight to see things.  Crazy thing is, when the flashlight got close to the Pendant, I could here a higher pitched hum come and go as I powered the flashlight off and on, or moved it further away from the amp, and that just goes to show how susceptible to noise this amp really is?!  

Now for the good part. . .Yesterday, I decided it was time for another roll, and I changed out the power tubes to another pair I have not tried yet, and to my surprise the amp was dead silent!   The hum was just about completely gone on the high Z output and I even had to look back over at the amp, to make sure it was still powered on.  Now, that the hum is just about completely gone, the sound of this amp is even more insane.  The depth of the stage and micro details coming through, now that the background hum is gone is stunning, and this amp just went to a new level of performance.  I had been learning to live with the hum, not realizing how much of the stage and details were suffering from it being so loud, and now that the hum is completely gone I can hear much deeper into the recording.  Long story short, if you are getting a hum, isolate the amp and keep changing power tubes until you find a quiet pair.  I am not a fan at all of new production tubes for various reasons, however I am a bit surprised that the loudest set of tubes I have are actually the stock JJ's.

Back to the burn in and listening. . .


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> Anyone know when the wooden knobs will be available for purchase? Was there an estimated time of when they’d be available?


I was wondering the same thing, but I am also thinking as good as the wood knob might look, how is it going to hold up and look down the road?  I don't know about you, but I play with the volume knob quit a bit, as some songs are recorded louder than others.  So with that said, I often have sweaty hands and wonder how the finish on the wood knob would actually hold up to constant "abuse" if you will.  I personally like the feel of the metal knob, and the durability of the finish as well, and think it might just be the better way to go for me.  Just thinking out loud and perhaps the finish on the knob would hold up, but I thought I would throw it out there anyway.


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> I was wondering the same thing, but I am also thinking as good as the wood knob might look, how is it going to hold up and look down the road?  I don't know about you, but I play with the volume knob quit a bit, as some songs are recorded louder than others.  So with that said, I often have sweaty hands and wonder how the finish on the wood knob would actually hold up to constant "abuse" if you will.  I personally like the feel of the metal knob, and the durability of the finish as well, and think it might just be the better way to go for me.  Just thinking out loud and perhaps the finish on the knob would hold up, but I thought I would throw it out there anyway.


Yea I always keep my hand sweat in mind when touching any of my ZMFs but I’m just curious as to what kind of woods we’ll see.

also what tubes are you using that give you no hum on high Z? Even after 400 hours of listening I was not able to get rid of the Hum.


----------



## robo24

I was getting zero hum at first, but it seems to vary a lot and going to the low Z output seems to eliminate it when it happens. At one point, holding my iPhone up close to the front tubes actually made the hum disappear. Also seems to vary by which tubes I use.


----------



## Wes S (May 30, 2021)

robo24 said:


> I was getting zero hum at first, but it seems to vary a lot and going to the low Z output seems to eliminate it when it happens. At one point, holding my iPhone up close to the front tubes actually made the hum disappear. Also seems to vary by which tubes I use.


I remember reading your first post about zero hum, and I have been striving to get zero hum ever since reading that.  I have to say it has been quite the challenge, and tubes that I have had zero issues with in the past in other amps, are giving me all kinds of noise issues.  What I have noticed is that is doesn't matter what brand tube, and some power tubes just work well with different input tubes, and you just have to keep changing combos until you find a quiet set that plays well together.  I have been at this for a week and have rolled quite a few tubes, and finally found a combo that is dead quiet and sounds killer.    I am fortunate enough to have a bunch of tubes on hand, so I was able to find some extremely quiet ones (after a week of rolling), but I could see how this could be seriously frustrating for someone with a limited amount of tubes, if the ones they have are noisy.  Based on my findings over this past week, I highly recommend using tubes from a reputable dealer that actually test for noise and microphonics.  Andy of Vintage Tube Services although expensive, has some of the most rigorous testing practices I have come across, so that might be a good option.  Some other dealers that test for noise are, Tube World Express, and Upscale Audio.  There are some good Ebay dealers as well that actually test for noise, but they are harder to find.


----------



## Wes S (May 30, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> Yea I always keep my hand sweat in mind when touching any of my ZMFs but I’m just curious as to what kind of woods we’ll see.
> 
> also what tubes are you using that give you no hum on high Z? Even after 400 hours of listening I was not able to get rid of the Hum.


I hear ya on being mindful when touching any of my beautiful ZMF's, and I always make sure I have clean hands.  Assuming the wood knobs will have some heavy duty finish on them, I am really anxious to see and hear more about them as well.  They really could be the icing on the cake, as far as completing the look, and I am thinking the same wood as the base (walnut burl) would probably look best, for my taste.

As far as tubes I am currently having success with, they are all "special" versions of each type, and unfortunately the particular one's I am using are as rare as they come.  These tubes are "special" in that they were designed to handle tougher situations than their pedestrian versions, so perhaps that is why they are helping with the noise issues?

Current tube combo that is dead silent.

Miniwatt 7189 D Getters 55' (power) - Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Angle Square Getters 56' (input) - G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 55' (rectifier)

The D Getter 7189's I have are almost impossible to find, but I have seen other brands of 7189's for sale that might be worth giving a shot, if you are having hum issues.  Also, the 7730 Long Plate Square Getter is impossible to find, but some other "special" tubes known to be quiet that could work for the input are the 5814.  I especially like the Sylvania 5814a Triple Mica Grey Plate Square Getters in that family of tubes.  As for the rectifiers, they don't seem to have as much effect on the hum, and I have had success with some Mullard EZ81 Square Getters 57'-60', and the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 55'.  Also, I have not tried any of my Tungsrams yet, but that is a tube brand known for it's extremely quite tubes, and I have input, driver and rectifiers made by them, so you can find them for every tube position.

After a week of playing around with my Pendant SE and a ton of tubes, I have to say this has been very fun, and at times very frustrating.  This amp really makes you work for it, but so far the rewards have been totally worth it, and I am starting to wonder if the sensitivity of this amp, is also one of it's greatest strengths. . .

I should mention, all listening has been done on the High Z (100 ohm tap), as that is the one I prefer with my Verite Closed.  I know the Low Z is more quiet, but I am not willing to sacrifice the magic I am getting from the High Z, so I feel it has been worth the struggle to use the High Z.  Also, I really don't like the idea of only being able to use one of the taps successfully, so I will battle on and hopefully continue to maintain the noise.

Back to the music, it is. . .


----------



## Wes S

Rolled in a new combo, and man oh man is this a good one!  

Current tube roll that is blowing my mind is listed below, and talk about being "there".  I can't believe how big and immersive the sound stage is with this tube combo, and how lifelike, clean and detailed the sound is, with zero harshness! 

Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Square Getter 56' (input) > Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters 53' (power) > Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter 55' (rectifier)


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> Rolled in a new combo, and man oh man is this a good one!
> 
> Current tube roll that is blowing my mind is listed below, and talk about being "there".  I can't believe how big and immersive the sound stage is with this tube combo, and how lifelike, clean and detailed the sound is, with zero harshness!
> 
> Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Square Getter 56' (input) > Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters 53' (power) > Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter 55' (rectifier)


I wish I could afford a set of tubes that price but I don’t think I will be able to for a while.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 1, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> I wish I could afford a set of tubes that price but I don’t think I will be able to for a while.


I hear ya man, as these tubes definitely were not cheap, but they really are on another level and with an amp as good as the Pendant, they do make a big difference.

Those input and power tubes are super rare and expensive, however I highly recommend looking for a Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter rectifier, as that made quite a significant change for the better and can be found for around $50.

The Mullard EZ81 really tightens and cleans up the sound, and also expands the stage, and gets an easy recommendation from me.


----------



## hikaru12 (Jun 1, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I hear ya on being mindful when touching any of my beautiful ZMF's, and I always make sure I have clean hands.  Assuming the wood knobs will have some heavy duty finish on them, I am really anxious to see and hear more about them as well.  They really could be the icing on the cake, as far as completing the look, and I am thinking the same wood as the base (walnut burl) would probably look best, for my taste.
> 
> As far as tubes I am currently having success with, they are all "special" versions of each type, and unfortunately the particular one's I am using are as rare as they come.  These tubes are "special" in that they were designed to handle tougher situations than their pedestrian versions, so perhaps that is why they are helping with the noise issues?
> 
> ...



Thats annoying to say the least. None of Justin’s other amps are that sensitive to noise. Amps costing almost twice like ECP or DNA Starlett don’t have noise issues. It has to be the topology of this one. 12AT tubes do have higher gain but I think it’s the power tubes since they’re used at higher gain than they normally would run at. I know those EL84 can put out like 15Ws in other amps so not sure why this one tends to be so sensitive. I would definitely consider this a downside as I don’t want to spend extra to get super tight specced matched pairs of tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 1, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Thats annoying to say the least. None of Justin’s other amps are that sensitive to noise. Amps costing almost twice like ECP or DNA Starlett have noise issues. It has to be the topology of this one. 12AT tubes do have higher gain but I think it’s the power tubes since they’re used at higher gain than they normally would run at. I know those EL84 can put out like 15Ws in other amps so not sure why this one tends to be so sensitive. I would definitely consider this a downside as I don’t want to spend extra to get super tight specced matched pairs of tubes.


It has definitely been annoying, luckily I have found several pairs of my "Holy Grail" EL84's that are dead silent and it's back to having fun.  Heck, at one point the other day, I was just about ready to give up and sell the amp, but now that I found some quiet tubes, I am happy and this amp is not going anywhere.

The Pendant SE is sounding so damn good, I am pretty sure I will be selling my RH-5 soon, as it will not be getting any use.  The Pendant SE with quiet tubes is that good.


----------



## Wes S

@hikaru12  Curious if you asked Justin about the EL84'S running at a higher gain than they normally would be, or is this a guess?


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> @hikaru12  Curious if you asked Justin about the EL84'S running at a higher gain than they normally would be, or is this a guess?



Its not a guess they run at 2.8-3W in ultra linear mode. Usually they would run a lot lower than that in other amps I’ve used that use EL84s such as my Tuba amp which was transformer coupled as well.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 1, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Its not a guess they run at 2.8-3W in ultra linear mode. Usually they would run a lot lower than that in other amps I’ve used that use EL84s such as my Tuba amp which was transformer coupled as well.


Got ya.  So, I wouldn't really say they are being run harder than normal, just harder than your other amps.  I don't know anything about amp design, but I am sure they are getting the proper juice, as Justin has been at this for a while.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Got ya.  So, I wouldn't really say they are being run harder than normal, just harder than your other amps.  I am sure they are getting the proper juice, as Justin has been at this for a while.



Gotta be component based then because something is picking up on RF which is usually blocked out in other amps. Whether that’s certain types of shielding, caps idk. Seems like it’s gotten better with the SE but it still remains sensitive to noise or tube issues.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 1, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Gotta be component based then because something is picking up on RF which is usually blocked out in other amps. Whether that’s certain types of shielding, caps idk. Seems like it’s gotten better with the SE but it still remains sensitive to noise or tube issues.


I don't know anything about this amp's design or any amp designs for that matter, so I can't speculate what it might be.  However, with quiet power tubes and isolating the amp from possible issues, the problem is gone.


----------



## lucasratmundo

My RAD-0 got delivered today. I _love _the pairing with the Pendant SE!


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> I hear ya man, as these tubes definitely were not cheap, but they really are on another level and with an amp as good as the Pendant, they do make a big difference.
> 
> Those input and power tubes are super rare and expensive, however I highly recommend looking for a Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter rectifier, as that made quite a significant change for the better and can be found for around $50.
> 
> The Mullard EZ81 really tightens and cleans up the sound, and also expands the stage, and gets an easy recommendation from me.


Appreciate your recommendations! Especially for tubes under $100 or maybe even $200 for the single 12AU7/12AX7. Just ordered one of these EZ81.


----------



## Guidostrunk

robo24 said:


> Appreciate your recommendations! Especially for tubes under $100 or maybe even $200 for the single 12AU7/12AX7. Just ordered one of these EZ81.


There's some fantastic 12at7 as well that can be had at some nice prices. I may even offer up some singles once I get done with my rolling frenzy on the Mjolnir 2 thread lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

One thing about it folks. Wes knows his schiit with tubes. He'll never steer you wrong!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> One thing about it folks. Wes knows his schiit with tubes. He'll never steer you wrong!


Thanks for the kind words brother!  

Folks, I highly recommend keeping an eye out for those 12AT7's that @Guidostrunk is planning on selling.  This guy knows tubes, and has some good ones.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the kind words brother!
> 
> Folks, I highly recommend keeping an eye out for those 12AT7's that @Guidostrunk is planning on selling.  This guy knows tubes, and has some good ones.


Burning in a pair of GEC A2900's 🤪


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Burning in a pair of GEC A2900's 🤪


Heck yeah!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 1, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> My RAD-0 got delivered today. I _love _the pairing with the Pendant SE!


Those have to be some of the best looking headphones out there!  Congrats and cool pic.


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Burning in a pair of GEC A2900's 🤪


Once I tried the GEC A2900 in my Bigger Ben, I was done! The Raytheon 7728, 7730 still sound great but the A2900 is THE tube.....at least for me.

I asked Justin about using the A2900 when I had the Pendant and he gave me a No-Go.


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> Once I tried the GEC A2900 in my Bigger Ben, I was done! The Raytheon 7728, 7730 still sound great but the A2900 is THE tube.....at least for me.
> 
> I asked Justin about using the A2900 when I had the Pendant and he gave me a No-Go.


Please try this tube. Or i can send you one of mine 😂
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> I hear ya man, as these tubes definitely were not cheap, but they really are on another level and with an amp as good as the Pendant, they do make a big difference.
> 
> Those input and power tubes are super rare and expensive, however I highly recommend looking for a Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter rectifier, as that made quite a significant change for the better and can be found for around $50.
> 
> The Mullard EZ81 really tightens and cleans up the sound, and also expands the stage, and gets an easy recommendation from me.


Well I’m gonna keep an eye out to see if I can find a set of the Valvos, maybe I could try and squeeze it into my budget.


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Please try this tube. Or i can send you one of mine 😂
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


I have a pair of those triple mica CV4033  / 2042M from TM. I will roll those in the BB again and see if they dethrones the A2900!!!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> There's some fantastic 12at7 as well that can be had at some nice prices. I may even offer up some singles once if I ever get done with my rolling frenzy on the Mjolnir 2 thread lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 2, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> I have a pair of those triple mica CV4033  / 2042M from TM. I will roll those in the BB again and see if they dethrones the A2900!!!


Do you have the Footscray triple mica? KB/FB ? The KB/FD are Rochester. The Footscray is a different animal lol


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 2, 2021)

😂😂😂
That's hilarious Jon!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> Well I’m gonna keep an eye out to see if I can find a set of the Valvos, maybe I could try and squeeze it into my budget.


I highly recommend the Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters, which are actually the first version ever of the EL84.  Talk about getting right the first time!  They are expensive and pop up from time to time, but are worth every penny.  The bass, mids and treble are insane and the stage is so deep it is crazy.  They are harmonically rich and impactful, yet highly resolving, and paired with a quick and neutral input tube like the 7728/7729/7730 or perhaps a Sylvania 5814a triple mica grey plate square getter (more affordable and easier to find by the way) and the Mullard EZ81 Square Getter, the sound is incredible.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Do you have the Footscray triple mica? KB/FB ? The KB/FD are Rochester. The Footscray is a different animal lol


I should have a Footscray Triple Mica arriving by Friday at the latest, and can't wait to hear it in the Pendant SE.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I should have a Footscray Triple Mica arriving by Friday at the latest, and can't wait to hear it in the Pendant SE.


I'm really looking forward to your thoughts bro! You've heard pretty much all the top tier tubes in 12at7 family. 
I know I'm early on the A2900 as far as burn in goes but if I was to compare the two at the 12 hour mark. The Footscray are on another level. BUT! with tubes and burn in you never know what could happen lol. 
I swear the Footscray have a 4th dimension to their sound 😂


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I was able to spend a couple hours with the Valvo’s. Mine are a little newer than Wes’s. One is late 58’ and the other early 59’. Definitely more bass than the Tungsram and Telefunken. However, it’s not as tight. Also, my Valvo’s don’t have anywhere near the clarity and micro detail as my Telefunken or Tungsram. Maybe with more time on them they will clear up more. I definitely like them and will keep them. I’ll get some more time on them and see what happens.
Also, tried the used Rad 0’s I picked up. They sound nice off the 8 ohm tap. Not sold on them though. I find I have to turn up the volume to hear details I hear at low volumes with the VC. Plus, the magical holographic sound of the VC / Pendant combo isn’t there and I really love that aspect. Soooo, most likely will be moving on from the Rad 0.  If I didn’t have my VC’s, I’d probably love the Rad 0 lol.  I’m dying to click “add to cart” on a set of African black wood VO!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I was able to spend a couple hours with the Valvo’s. Mine are a little newer than Wes’s. One is late 58’ and the other early 59’. Definitely more bass than the Tungsram and Telefunken. However, it’s not as tight. Also, my Valvo’s don’t have anywhere near the clarity and micro detail as my Telefunken or Tungsram. Maybe with more time on them they will clear up more. I definitely like them and will keep them. I’ll get some more time on them and see what happens.
> Also, tried the used Rad 0’s I picked up. They sound nice off the 8 ohm tap. Not sold on them though. I find I have to turn up the volume to hear details I hear at low volumes with the VC. Plus, the magical holographic sound of the VC / Pendant combo isn’t there and I really love that aspect. Soooo, most likely will be moving on from the Rad 0.  If I didn’t have my VC’s, I’d probably love the Rad 0 lol.  I’m dying to click “add to cart” on a set of African black wood VO!


Good stuff!  I have been eyeing those Blackwood VO, as well.  For reference, tubes usually tighten up a bit after burn in, however the earlier version Valvo is where the detail is at, and they look like this.  Notice the elliptical or dish shaped getter, and bottom dates codes, as those are key identifiers.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare...-/114702427287?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


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## nwavesailor (Jun 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Do you have the Footscray triple mica? KB/FB ? The KB/FD are Rochester. The Footscray is a different animal lol


No, my pair are 1960 Rochester. I have SO many tubes that sit unused in boxes and  I don't really think I need one more Hily Grail tube.

I have pairs of 1950's and 1960's GEC KT88 (including the rare single getter version) along with the USAF 596 and the GEC A2900 and I am thrilled with the sound using these in the BB. Could it get better, sure. 
Do I want to buy, roll and have more tubes, not really.................


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> No, my pair are 1960 Rochester. I have SO many tubes that sit unused in boxes and  I don't really think I need one more Hily Grail tube.
> 
> I have pairs of 1950's and 1960's GEC KT88 (including the rare single getter version) along with the USAF 596 and the GEC A2900 and I am thrilled with the sound using these in the BB. Could it get better, sure.
> Do I want to buy, roll and have more tubes, not really.................


I hate to say this, but you will be missing out.  The tube @Guidostrunk is talking about is the best tube I have ever heard, and it is above all the rest known "Holy Grail" input/driver tubes without a doubt.  Just throwing that out there, as I am listening with said tube right now, in my Pendant SE.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Please try this tube. Or i can send you one of mine 😂
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


Folks, if you want to hear the Pendant in all it's glory, with a holographic stage that you did not even know was possible, slamming bass, and the most lifelike tonality I have heard in a tube, then I highly recommend picking up one of these Brimar listed above.  I really hope some other Pendant owners jump on this tube, as I don't want to be the only one enjoying this insanely amazing sound.  I am not lying folks, and trust me on this one, you will thank me if you buy this tube.  I have rolled quite a few "holy grail" tubes in the last several years, and have never encountered one as amazing as this with zero flaws.


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> No, my pair are 1960 Rochester. I have SO many tubes that sit unused in boxes and  I don't really think I need one more Hily Grail tube.
> 
> I have pairs of 1950's and 1960's GEC KT88 (including the rare single getter version) along with the USAF 596 and the GEC A2900 and I am thrilled with the sound using these in the BB. Could it get better, sure.
> Do I want to buy, roll and have more tubes, not really.................


I know you have quite the collection my friend. I really hope you reconsider before they're all gone. I've been trying to source this tube for years. Ever since I discovered the 2 mica Rochester, and the Footscray were unobtanium. I almost fell out of my chair when Sanjiv said he had a small batch of them. 

I know it gets crazy when you have tubes coming out the wazoo but you should definitely find a spot for at least one  57 triple mica Footscray.

Cheers


----------



## steve468

Geez, this thread is the worst. I swore I wasn’t going to buy more tubes... but the construction of this one looks similar to one of my favourites in the Pendant, the Brimar 6060 (another fairly cheap tube I say is worth seeking out). I just gotta know if this one is better! I think I have a problem! My wallet hates you all.

I also picked up some Valvo EL84s mentioned in this thread, and they were pretty great. Very neutral with a bit of a bass boost, which seems to be my ideal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

steve468 said:


> Geez, this thread is the worst. I swore I wasn’t going to buy more tubes... but the construction of this one looks similar to one of my favourites in the Pendant, the Brimar 6060 (another fairly cheap tube I say is worth seeking out). I just gotta know if this one is better! I think I have a problem! My wallet hates you all.
> 
> I also picked up some Valvo EL84s mentioned in this thread, and they were pretty great. Very neutral with a bit of a bass boost, which seems to be my ideal.


To my ears the 6060 yellow T falls short to the Footscray. 
The 2 mica Rochester cv4033, GEC A2900 is on par with the 6060. They're very similar sounding and have their trade offs. The Rochester lacks a little slam and impact of the 6060 and A2900 but makes up for it in detail retrieval, dynamics and realism. 

The Footscray is on another level. Haven't heard anything like it since I've been rolling tubes. Lol


----------



## Wes S

steve468 said:


> Geez, this thread is the worst. I swore I wasn’t going to buy more tubes... but the construction of this one looks similar to one of my favourites in the Pendant, the Brimar 6060 (another fairly cheap tube I say is worth seeking out). I just gotta know if this one is better! I think I have a problem! My wallet hates you all.
> 
> I also picked up some Valvo EL84s mentioned in this thread, and they were pretty great. Very neutral with a bit of a bass boost, which seems to be my ideal.


The Footscray Triple Mica CV4033 57' sounds so freakin amazing paired up the Valvo's it is insane.  Throw in a Mullard EZ81 Blackburn Square Getter and it's game over.  With that combo, the headphones disappear and I am "there".


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Well @Wes S, you sucked me in. I ordered 1.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Well @Wes S, you sucked me in. I ordered 1.


Heck yes!  I am so happy another Pendant owner bought one.  You are in for a treat man, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts.  This is a very special tube, that does magic with the Pendant SE!


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> Well @Wes S, you sucked me in. I ordered 1.


Yea I officially hate this thread. I picked one up as I saw 2 go within the hour and there were 5. Didn’t want to miss out if they are good as they say.


----------



## Wes S

AngryTank said:


> Yea I officially hate this thread. I picked one up as I saw 2 go within the hour and there were 5. Didn’t want to miss out if they are good as they say.


LOL!  I hear ya man, however the good thing is a bet you won't be tempted by other tubes, once you get the Footscray Triple 57'.  I have been hunting for tubes all day everyday for years, and now that I have this tube, I have not even thought of looking for others.  This is a revelation for me, and so satisfying to have cleared my mind of wanting and searching for NOS tubes, and now I can focus on finding new music instead.


----------



## Guidostrunk

All sold out now lol.


----------



## AngryTank

Guidostrunk said:


> All sold out now lol.


Shows that they got 8 more in stock?


----------



## Guidostrunk

AngryTank said:


> Shows that they got 8 more in stock?


He just added them. At 11:30est they were sold out lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those 8 are probably the last batch Sanjiv has.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Those 8 are probably the last batch Sanjiv has.


Or perhaps the last 14. . .as that is where it is at now.  Either way, I am set with my 3.


----------



## gugges

I have been loving a VT231 6SN7 (12AU7 equivalent) in my Mogwai SE and I picked one of these Brimars up to see if the slightly additional gain of the 12AT7 proves to be the sweet spot between 6SN7 and 6SL7


----------



## Wes S

gugges said:


> I have been loving a VT231 6SN7 (12AU7 equivalent) in my Mogwai SE and I picked one of these Brimars up to see if the slightly additional gain of the 12AT7 proves to be the sweet spot between 6SN7 and 6SL7


Nice! I look forward to hearing how it works for you in the Mogwai SE.  I have a feeling your VT231 will be taking the bench.


----------



## gugges

Wes S said:


> Nice! I look forward to hearing how it works for you in the Mogwai SE.  I have a feeling your VT231 will be taking the bench.


It’s a 1945 Tung Sol 6SN7GT so it should be a fun shootout! Thanks for the recommendation 🙌🏼


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

gugges said:


> It’s a 1945 Tung Sol 6SN7GT so it should be a fun shootout! Thanks for the recommendation 🙌🏼


My money is on the Brimar, and glad to help.   However, if that is a black glass round plate it might be close, but I would still take the Brimar.


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> I know you have quite the collection my friend. I really hope you reconsider before they're all gone. I've been trying to source this tube for years. Ever since I discovered the 2 mica Rochester, and the Footscray were unobtanium. I almost fell out of my chair when Sanjiv said he had a small batch of them.
> 
> I know it gets crazy when you have tubes coming out the wazoo but you should definitely find a spot for at least one  57 triple mica Footscray.
> 
> Cheers


I am a tube addict so I bought one. 

I really need to sell off tubes.........


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I am a tube addict so I bought one.
> 
> I really need to sell off tubes.........


Wise decision my friend.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gotta love this guy!


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> I am a tube addict so I bought one.
> 
> I really need to sell off tubes.........


----------



## jonathan c

gugges said:


> I have been loving a VT231 6SN7 (12AU7 equivalent) in my Mogwai SE and I picked one of these Brimars up to see if the slightly additional gain of the 12AT7 proves to be the sweet spot between 6SN7 and 6SL7


It will be much more than the gain that will captivate you...


----------



## breakfree40

Whelp, I also got sucked in a purchased one for the pendant.  Thanks for the heads up


----------



## DougD (Jun 3, 2021)

breakfree40 said:


> Whelp, I also got sucked in a purchased one for the pendant.  Thanks for the heads up



I also got sucked into the rabbit hole, and ordered one.

You guys are a great/bad/great influence.

I don't even own a Pendant SE yet. Never seen or heard one in person. I'm probably at least 6 months away from getting one.

To drive my new ZMF headphones.

Which I also have never seen or heard in person, and am probably X-months away from [edit] getting even ordering.


----------



## Wes S

DougD said:


> I also got sucked into the rabbit hole, and ordered one.
> 
> You guys are a great/bad/great influence.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with stocking up on good tubes, as I did the same thing before I got my Pendant.  Just knowing how rare some of the good one's are, you have to jump on them when you can.  With that Footscray, you have basically got one of if not the best input tubes for the Pendant coming your way, so rest assured you are set for the input tube.  I am a bit jealous, as it took me many a tubes and lots of cash, to arrive at this one.


----------



## DougD

Wes S said:


> Nothing wrong with stocking up on good tubes, as I did the same thing before I got my Pendant.  Just knowing how rare some of the good one's are, you have to jump on them when you can.  With that Footscray, you have basically got one of if not the best input tubes for the Pendant coming your way, so rest assured you are set for the input tube.  I am a bit jealous, as it took me many a tubes and lots of cash, to arrive at this one.



And I for one very much appreciate your willingness to share your hard-learned knowledge & experience. I'm a tube noob, and the idea of doing a LOT of clueless random tube-rolling in search of nirvana fills me with more trepidation & terror than excitement & pleasure.


----------



## Guidostrunk

DougD said:


> And I for one very much appreciate your willingness to share your hard-learned knowledge & experience. I'm a tube noob, and the idea of doing a LOT of clueless random tube-rolling in search of nirvana fills me with more trepidation & terror than excitement & pleasure.


Most people that take that route of trial and error usually throw the towel in and run from tube amps. It can get costly very quickly. Lol.


----------



## robo24

AngryTank said:


> Yea I officially hate this thread. I picked one up as I saw 2 go within the hour and there were 5. Didn’t want to miss out if they are good as they say.


Same here. Already shipped FedEx from India!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Most people that take that route of trial and error usually throw the towel in and run from tube amps. It can get costly very quickly. Lol.


That is why a forum/thread such as this can be of great help:  experience as to what to buy/avoid, sellers to use/avoid....plus the opportunity to make tube friends....(OK, hybrid tube/SS qualifies)....


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> That is why a forum/thread such as this can be of great help:  experience as to what to buy/avoid, sellers to use/avoid....plus the opportunity to make tube friends....(OK, hybrid tube/SS qualifies)....


Amen brother!  It is a blast sharing experiences and knowing we are all hearing something very special!


----------



## Guidostrunk

steve468 said:


> Geez, this thread is the worst. I swore I wasn’t going to buy more tubes... but the construction of this one looks similar to one of my favourites in the Pendant, the Brimar 6060 (another fairly cheap tube I say is worth seeking out). I just gotta know if this one is better! I think I have a problem! My wallet hates you all.
> 
> I also picked up some Valvo EL84s mentioned in this thread, and they were pretty great. Very neutral with a bit of a bass boost, which seems to be my ideal.


I wanted to follow up with this post Steve. I know the 6060 was the tube to answer the A2900. So I dug through some of my links on the 6060. Are your 6060 triple mica construction? I ask because if so they are they were made in the Footscray plant and are the premium version of the CV455 which is the street version, and  may be the premium counterpart to the flying leads cv4033 Footscray. 

I know ....it's crazy lol. So.... your follow up post will confirm if you bought one of those cv4033 that Wes and i mentioned, if the steet version(6060)  Footscray is on par with the cv4033 Footscray(flying leads). 

I honestly dont remember the 6060 yellow T I had. It's been years since I've had it. I do remember liking that tube a lot but at that time but I also had the Rochester cv4033 2 mica , and A2900 , and thought they all sounded very similar with tradeoffs. 

These Footscray triples from pulse handily beat the A2900 to my ears. I've never heard a tube like it. Also from memory the A2900 I have now sound exactly as I remember at that time. Nothing WOW'D me with the 6060 or the Rochester cv4033. I simply thought they were on par with A2900 and there was no need to spend ridiculous money on A2900. 

Will be looking forward to your follow up post if you snagged a Footscray from pulse.  


Cheers bro!


----------



## AngryTank

DougD said:


> I also got sucked into the rabbit hole, and ordered one.
> 
> You guys are a great/bad/great influence.
> 
> ...


Don’t know which ZMF you ordered but I’m waiting on my Olive VC before I have my Endgame.


----------



## AngryTank

robo24 said:


> Same here. Already shipped FedEx from India!


I still haven’t gotten any shipping information regarding mine. Not too worried though, I’ll have 3 sets of tubes coming in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

AngryTank said:


> I still haven’t gotten any shipping information regarding mine. Not too worried though, I’ll have 3 sets of tubes coming in.


You should have your tube in less than 10 days. All 4 sets of tubes I've purchased from him(not all Footscray. I'm not a hoarder 😂) have made it to my house in 8 days or less.


----------



## Guidostrunk

@Wes S  is in a music coma right now 😂😂😂


----------



## steve468

I'm afraid the 2 6060s I have are both 2 mica. I did briefly have a triple mica with red lettering, but it pretty much was dead on arrival. What little I heard of it was pretty similar, but brighter. Probably not a fair comparison though since that tube was a dead man walking. I had a quick look, and it seems my source for 6060s has dried up. Is there any way to tell what factory the Brimars were made in? The tubes I have both have quite clear date codes, but it doesn't seem to say anything about factory. 

I'll agree that the 6060 I have is not miles better than other tubes, just unique. It's tremendously clear with very good extension on both top and especially bottom. It seems bass light until you listen to something with sub-bass, and then you get the thunder. I did get one of these suddenly super popular cv4033s, so I'll post a comparison when it finally arrives.


Guidostrunk said:


> I wanted to follow up with this post Steve. I know the 6060 was the tube to answer the A2900. So I dug through some of my links on the 6060. Are your 6060 triple mica construction? I ask because if so they are they were made in the Footscray plant and are the premium version of the CV455 which is the street version, and  may be the premium counterpart to the flying leads cv4033 Footscray.
> 
> I know ....it's crazy lol. So.... your follow up post will confirm if you bought one of those cv4033 that Wes and i mentioned, if the steet version(6060)  Footscray is on par with the cv4033 Footscray(flying leads).
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

steve468 said:


> I'm afraid the 2 6060s I have are both 2 mica. I did briefly have a triple mica with red lettering, but it pretty much was dead on arrival. What little I heard of it was pretty similar, but brighter. Probably not a fair comparison though since that tube was a dead man walking. I had a quick look, and it seems my source for 6060s has dried up. Is there any way to tell what factory the Brimars were made in? The tubes I have both have quite clear date codes, but it doesn't seem to say anything about factory.
> 
> I'll agree that the 6060 I have is not miles better than other tubes, just unique. It's tremendously clear with very good extension on both top and especially bottom. It seems bass light until you listen to something with sub-bass, and then you get the thunder. I did get one of these suddenly super popular cv4033s, so I'll post a comparison when it finally arrives.


Here's the Brimar codes.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 4, 2021)

You KNOW you are a tube addict when you have never had to go to your top shelf backup tube(s) but you still buy them!

Just snagged the backup CV4033 tube since these are super rare and are loaded with even rarer 1957 vintage pixie dust gathered from the horn of a unicorn!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> You KNOW you are a tube addict when you have never had to go to your top shelf backup tube(s) but you still buy them!
> 
> Just snagged the backup CV4033 tube since these are super rare and are loaded with even rarer 1957 vintage pixie dust gathered from the horn of a unicorn!!!!


😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S (Jun 4, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> I still haven’t gotten any shipping information regarding mine. Not too worried though, I’ll have 3 sets of tubes coming in.


Don't fret, after seeing that previous post of someone getting a shipping notice, I got a little worried myself as I was the very first one to place my order yesterday, however I reached out to Sanjiv of Pulse and he assured me my tube is shipping today.  I got my first one in 5 days.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> @Wes S  is in a music coma right now 😂😂😂


Nothing but the truth!


----------



## Wes S

Current tube combo that I am not sure can be bested, with a sound that is so insanely holographic, detailed, impactful, and is so freaking lifelike it is scary.   

Brimar Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica 57’ (input)
Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters 54’ (power)
Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getter 55’ (rectifier)






Don’t get me wrong, as an avid tube roller, I am going to have to see if I can get the sound even better once the Footscray are completely burned in, so I will be rolling my other power tubes and rectifier soon, to see how they pair with the Footscray Triple Mica 57’.  One thing is for sure, I am staying with the Footscray as the input tube.  I am so satisfied with the Footscray, that I have no desire to even look for another input tube.   This is a bold statement, as I have been searching all day everyday for NOS tubes for years, and since getting the Footscray I have not even checked my Ebay searches, which used to be the first thing I would do when I woke up everyday.  I have to say this is such a revelation and satisfied feeling of knowing my search for the "one" input tube is over, and now I can focus on the other tubes and most importantly the music.

Power tubes on deck - Mullard Blackburn EL84 Foil Disk Getter (very first version RX1), Amperex Holland EL84 D Getters, and Philips Holland 7189 D Getters.

Rectifier on deck - G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 

Fun times ahead. . .


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks like Sanjiv has plenty of stock. He loaded up 16 more lol.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 4, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Looks like Sanjiv has plenty of stock. He loaded up 16 more lol.


He has been busy!  I actually reached out to Sanjiv yesterday and have started a dialogue.  He sure is a nice guy, and we are very lucky to have such great service and products.  Sanjiv told me how you gently nudged him to look for the Footscray's, and everyone who bought some owes you a big thanks for that!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

AngryTank said:


> I still haven’t gotten any shipping information regarding mine. Not too worried though, I’ll have 3 sets of tubes coming in.


It will take 3 months ish….  It took about that long for both my VC.  I originally pre-ordered a monkey pod when they first came out.  I wasn’t impressed with the look, but definitely was with the sound!  2 other ZMF’s came out in camphor burl and I loved it.  I told myself, “if the VC ever come out in camphor burl, I’m buying them”.  Well, they did!  So, I sold my monkey pod and bought a set in camphor burl.  These are very pretty to look at when not on my head!  My wife walked by them one day and said “wow, those really are beautiful looking headphones”.  I really like the look of those olive wood VC too.  It will be worth the wait.  I did notice a difference in the sound with the camphor burl (harder wood) vs the monkey pod.  The camphor burl had a touch more bass and the mid bass filled out a touch.  Also, there was a slight decrease in decay on string notes and reverb.  All this is pretty much in line with what is listed on the ZMF site about what the differences are when going to harder woods.  With the olive wood, ZMF says you retain more of the decay, which I really enjoy.  I really like hearing that last string note linger on………..  and it does with the clarity of the Pendant (OG and SE).  Very impressive amp.  I was going down the all balanced route, then I bought the Pendant.  Back to single ended and have not lost anything!  I have an Schiit Yggdrasil A1 which is supposedly not the best using single ended outputs.  Sounds pretty darn awesome to me.  I’ve been listening to cello music by Adam Hurst.  With the VC powered by the SE using Telefunkend EL84 and my current favorite 12au7 RCA orange label clear glass, I can actually hear the bow moving on the strings!   ZMFer for life!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Current tube combo that I am not sure can be bested, with a sound that is so insanely holographic, detailed, impactful, and is so freaking lifelike it is scary.
> 
> Brimar Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica 57’ (input)
> Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters 54’ (power)
> ...


Ummm, what’s that cable you have going to those gorgeous VC?  Wait, maybe I don’t want to know…… uhh, yes I do.  Wes, you are a very bad influence and I mean that in the nicest way lol


----------



## Wes S (Jun 4, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Ummm, what’s that cable you have going to those gorgeous VC?  Wait, maybe I don’t want to know…… uhh, yes I do.  Wes, you are a very bad influence and I mean that in the nicest way lol


LOL!

 The headphone cable is a Norne Draug 3s, and it's my all-time favorite cable.    This cable really ups the performance of the VC, with increasing bass impact, with good detail and texture in the mids, a true lifelike tonality and it opens the stage up even more.  I love this cable also for it's ergonomics, as it is the most supple and tangle free cable I have ever used.  The way it's braided aids in the ergonomics and microphonics are non-existent as well.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

@Wes S does the Mullard EZ81 Blackburn Square Getter need to be a 55’?  I found a 60’.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 4, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S does the Mullard EZ81 Blackburn Square Getter need to be a 55’?  I found a 60’.


As long as it has Square Getter and is from Blackburn. Code starting with B, you are good.  However, for some reason earlier the better most often, but I have a couple from 59' and 60' with Square Getters and they sound pretty dang close to my 55'.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 5, 2021)

Well, yesterday I changed up my tube combo, to see if I could squeeze a bit more performance out of the amp using the Footscray Triple Mica 57' CV4033, and I found an even more amazing pairing.  The Valvo EL84 Hamburg 54' and Mullard EZ81 Blackburn 55', were sounding spectacular, don't get me wrong,  however I rolled in the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter (rectifier), and my pair of Amperex Holland 7189 D Getters 58' (power), and it's pure insanity!  Folks, I know the G.EC. U709 is ridiculously priced and hard to find, so the Mullard is a close second and I would be cool with just that, but I highly recommend pairing the Footscray Triple Mica 57' CV4033 with either some Amperex Holland EL84 or 7189 D Getters.  The holographic stage, powerful dynamics, transparency and lifelike tonality with this pairing is nothing short of spectacular.

Endgame tube combo pictured below.





Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57'
Amperex 7189 D Getter Sittard 58'
G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 56'

With these tubes I just can't get enough, and the headphones literally seem to just disappear and I am transported with the musicians to our own private space called "There".


----------



## galileaux

Hi all!

I recently ordered a Verite Closed (Olive Wood), and have been researching amps that will pair well with it and my other headphones (Modhouse Argon Mk3, MDR-Z1R, Hifiman Arya). I’m auditioning a Feliks Audio Euforia this week, but wondering if anyone has any experience with both the Euforia & the Pendant (OG or SE)?

I don’t have a way to audition the Pendant, but know they’ll probably be a good match for the VC, so hoping I can anchor anyone else’s experience with it in comparison to the Euforia, so I can better decide which amp to go with in the end.

For reference, my DAC is the Hugo 2. I have never owned a high-end tube amp before, so very excited for whichever one I pick in the end.

Thank you!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2021)

galileaux said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I recently ordered a Verite Closed (Olive Wood), and have been researching amps that will pair well with it and my other headphones (Modhouse Argon Mk3, MDR-Z1R, Hifiman Arya). I’m auditioning a Feliks Audio Euforia this week, but wondering if anyone has any experience with both the Euforia & the Pendant (OG or SE)?
> 
> ...


I know Zach of ZMF owns both amps, so you might ask him what the differences are.  I am positive he will give you an honest answer, even though he only sells one of those products.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Well, yesterday I changed up my tube combo, to see if I could squeeze a bit more performance out of the amp using the Footscray Triple Mica 57' CV4033, and I found an even more amazing pairing.  The Valvo EL84 Hamburg 54' and Mullard EZ81 Blackburn 55', were sounding spectacular, don't get me wrong,  however I rolled in the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter (rectifier), and my pair of Amperex Holland 7189 D Getters 58' (power), and it's pure insanity!  Folks, I know the G.EC. U709 is ridiculously priced and hard to find, so the Mullard is a close second and I would be cool with just that, but I highly recommend pairing the Footscray Triple Mica 57' CV4033 with either some Amperex Holland EL84 or 7189 D Getters.  The holographic stage, powerful dynamics, transparency and lifelike tonality with this pairing is nothing short of spectacular.
> 
> Endgame tube combo pictured below.
> 
> ...


Wife:  Where’s Wes?   Wife (again): Oh, he’s over there...


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My Brimar Footscray CV4033 arrived today. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to pop it in tonight.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 9, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> My Brimar Footscray CV4033 arrived today. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to pop it in tonight.


Heck yeah!  Get ready to be blown away.  It will sound killer right from the start, but it takes about 50 hours of burn in, to get to  "magical".


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> My Brimar Footscray CV4033 arrived today. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to pop it in tonight.


Mine arrived too, been using it for a bit, ngl pretty impressed, the sound is WAY BETTER, I don’t think I need to buy any other tubes as long as this one lives for a good while.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 9, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> Mine arrived too, been using it for a bit, ngl pretty impressed, the sound is WAY BETTER, I don’t think I need to buy any other tubes as long as this one lives for a good while.


Nice man!  I pretty much have the same feeling about it, and the Footscray is not coming out of the amp, until it is dead.  Then it will be replaced by the exact same tube.  Unfortunately, they don't last forever, and that's why I have 3 of them.

The cool thing is, I can still tweak the sound with the power tubes and rectifier, and they all sound good but slighty different with the CV4033.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  I pretty much have the same feeling about it, and the Footscray is not coming out of the amp, until it is dead.  Then it will be replaced by the exact same tube.  Unfortunately, they don't last forever, and that's why I have 3 of them.


To state again: that is why the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) is so attractive. Almost all the SQ of the CV4033 and can give the CV4033 a ‘rest’ if one chooses that.


----------



## jonathan c

AngryTank said:


> Mine arrived too, been using it for a bit, ngl pretty impressed, the sound is WAY BETTER, I don’t think I need to buy any other tubes as long as this one lives for a good while.


Will the Footscray prompt you to change your HF member name 😜 ?...


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> To state again: that is why the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) is so attractive. Almost all the SQ of the CV4033 and can give the CV4033 a ‘rest’ if one chooses that.


Thanks for the reminder!  I was going to share that with everyone here.

The Tube Gods have really been blessing us lately, and here is another very special Brimar, at a very attractive price from Footscray.  https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/ 

I have one on the way.


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the reminder!  I was going to share that with everyone here.
> 
> The Tube Gods have really been blessing us lately, and here is another very special Brimar, at a very attractive price from Footscray.  https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/
> 
> I have one on the way.


No F.O.M.O. on that version with 300+ in stock!

I also got my CV4033(s) today and they tested nicely. Warmed up and about ready to listen in the BB amp!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> No F.O.M.O. on that version with 300+ in stock!
> 
> I also got my CV4033(s) today and they tested nicely. Warmed up and about ready to listen in the BB amp!


Heck yeah man!  You are in for a treat, and I can only imagine what it will sound like in the BB.


----------



## nwavesailor

The CV4033 are indeed a great tube! I'll leave it in for several days before I do the obsessive A/B with the A2900.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> The CV4033 are indeed a great tube! I'll leave it in for several days before I do the obsessive A/B with the A2900.


Awesome man!  Long live the CV4033!


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> The CV4033 are indeed a great tube! I'll leave it in for several days before I do the obsessive A/B with the A2900.


A great fight card...and you have the best seat in the house...(no hints from me on outcome...the thrill of discovery...)


----------



## galileaux

Wes S said:


> I know Zach of ZMF owns both amps, so you might ask him what the differences are.  I am positive he will give you an honest answer, even though he only sells one of those products.


Thank you for your advice! I asked Zach, and indeed he gave great impressions of both amps. In the end I think I’ll enjoy the Pendant SE more, so will be ordering it soon!


----------



## nwavesailor

jonathan c said:


> A great fight card...and you have the best seat in the house...(no hints from me on outcome...the thrill of discovery...)


'Your Honor, I submit that @jonathan c _may_ indeed be leading the witness!'


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 10, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> 'Your Honor, I submit that @jonathan c _may_ indeed be leading the witness!'


Just trying to prevent the witness from aural perjury. The ears of justice must be balanced. Please be reminded that once the tubes are in the sockets, ‘pleading the fifth’ is an unavailable remedy. Partaking of a fifth is a different matter...🤪...


----------



## Wes S (Jun 11, 2021)

Just to see if I could squeeze a bit more out of the Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57', I rolled in a set of Mullard EL84 Disk Getters from Blackburn 55' (earliest version).  I am currently burning them in, and I am quite impressed with what I am hearing so far.  For reference, I am using the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 54' for the rectifier.  I will report back after burn in.

The Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Disc Getters 55' in the amp, and they are dead silent by the way.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Just to see if I could squeeze a bit more out of the Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57', I rolled in a set of Mullard EL84 Disk Getters from Blackburn 55' (earliest version).  I am currently burning them in, and I am quite impressed with what I am hearing so far.  For reference, I am using the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter for the rectifier.  I will report back after burn in.
> 
> The Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Disc Getters 55' in the amp, and they are dead silent by the way.


Such beautiful gear bro!


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## Wes S (Jun 11, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Such beautiful gear bro!


Thanks man!  I literally just stand back and admire it all quite a bit, and really can't believe I own all this amazing gear.  I am very fortunate and I definitely don't take it for granted.  My kick ass looking and sounding headphones/gear are what keeps me sane!


----------



## robo24 (Nov 26, 2021)

Just came home from a week away to a bunch of new tubes I'd ordered, but put the Brimar ones in, along with the 1959 Mullard Blackburn EZ81 and 1958 Amperex Holland D getters. Hadn't listened to much and largely with bluetooth headphones on planes all week, so the Pendant sound with other tubes I didn't compare with yet. Just the Verite Open so far with universe suede pads and put shuffle music on. The DAC is the TT2.

Man oh man, this is just crazy! Some John Mayer came on first and had that same experience Wes described, like he's singing just right there and everything was so spread out and distinct, almost HD800 like, and like I'd never heard the song before. Then came on something from Dee-Lite's last album, which is already a pretty trippy /spacey album and again, vocals much more forward than I'm used to with the Verite Open and sounds kind of coming from all over the place. I mean I loved my Pendant SE with the stock tubes, even more with some of the NOS tubes Zach sent, but this is just on another level. Several other tubes arrived too, so I have plenty to roll now, but I don't see ending up with more tubes. I'm guessing most of this is due to the Brimar tube, and I'd strongly suggest Pendant owners give it a try, and if you somehow don't like them just list them for sale. I'd certainly buy more and probably will now while there's some left available.

I remember when I first got into the hobby with the HD700 and Woo WA7 and was so blown away and told myself (for about 2 weeks, lol) that I was done spending money on more headphones & amps because I'd already spent too much. Just amazes me not only that this amp can still be quite a leap over my prior tube amps and now that this tube combo is yet another (smaller) leap. I fear what will happen once I go to CanJam and hopefully listen to more of Justin's amps higher up in the lineup. For now though fiscal reality has me stopping here. I don't need it to get better and won't be buying other tubes for the Pendant, except backups of these 4. I love that I can _still_ be blown away in this hobby! And thank you, @Wes S !


----------



## Wes S (Jun 12, 2021)

robo24 said:


> Just came home from a week away to a bunch of new tubes I'd ordered, but put the Brimar ones in, along with the 1959 Mullard Blackburn EZ81 and 1958 Amperex Holland D getters. Hadn't listened to much and largely with bluetooth headphones on planes all week, so the Pendant sound with other tubes I didn't compare with yet. Just the Verite Open so far with universe suede pads and put shuffle music on. The DAC is the TT2.
> 
> Man or man, this is just crazy! Some John Mayer came on first and had that same experience Wes described, like he's singing just right there and everything was so spread out and distinct, almost HD800 like, and like I'd never heard the song before. Then came on something from Dee-Lite's last album, which is already a pretty trippy /spacey album and again, vocals much more forward than I'm used to with the Verite Open and sounds kind of coming from all over the place. I mean I loved my Pendant SE with the stock tubes, even more with some of the NOS tubes Zach sent, but this is just on another level. Several other tubes arrived too, so I have plenty to roll now, but I don't see ending up with more tubes. I'm guessing most of this is due to the Brimar tube, and I'd strongly suggest Pendant owners give it a try, and if you somehow don't like them just list them for sale. I'd certainly buy more and probably will now while there's some left available.
> 
> I remember when I first got into the hobby with the HD700 and Woo WA7 and was so blown away and told myself (for about 2 weeks, lol) that I was done spending money on more headphones & amps because I'd already spent too much. Just amazes me not only that this amp can still be quite a leap over my prior tube amps and now that this tube combo is yet another (smaller) leap. I fear what will happen once I go to CanJam and hopefully listen to more of Justin's amps higher up in the lineup. For now though fiscal reality has me stopping here. I don't need it to get better and won't be buying other tubes for the Pendant, except backups of these 4. I love that I can _still_ be blown away in this hobby! And thank you, @Wes S !


You are most welcome, and glad that combo is working out for you!  It does not get any better, and happy listening.


----------



## 8bitmark

Looking for an opinion, I want to simplify switching between my DAC and my phonostage with my Pendant SE. The two components won't be on at the same time, but I want to stop swapping the cables so often. Would a passive RCA router be my best bet or could I accomplish it cheaper with some y-splitter/adapters.

Also, I am assuming that I would still want to power off the amp before changing sources. Anyone have a definitive answer here? I will probably email about this, but thought I would ask the owner base first for ideas/opinions.


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## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

Well, as much as I am loving the Footscray Brimar CV4033 triple mica 57', the tube roller in me just couldn't take it and had to come out.  

I have another very special input tube that is blowing my mind!

Hamburg Philips 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter 58'








This tube is just as magical as the Footscray, but in a completely different way.  The 6201 is one of the most well balanced tubes from top to bottom that I have ever heard, and the transparency and detail are incredible as well. The dynamics are in full force and the transients are lightning fast, and the treble is extended more than any other tube I own.  Also, the bass hits hard and is super tight when called upon. The stage on the 6201 is massive being super wide and tall, compared to the deeper front to back more spherical like stage of the Footscray, and I love them both.  Basically, the Footscray is all about getting lost in the music and having fun, and the 6201 is all about transparency, detail and speed.  Don't get me wrong the 6201 has zero harshness in the highs, and I can really crank the volume with it.  The 6201 is a very exciting listen, and especially paired up with some Amperex EL84 D Getters and a Mullard EZ81 Square Getter.

Happy listening and rolling!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Only one I could find atm If anyone is interested. I'd imagine there's still a few thousand hours left on this tube for enjoyment. Extremely hard to find these. 
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-Valvo...-/274827569479?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


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## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

Here is another one.    I can't believe there are actually a couple even available. Crazy times for us tube guys right now!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/393278440936


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## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Here is another one.    I can't believe there are actually a couple even available. Crazy times for us tube guys right now!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/393278440936


Oh boy 🤦‍♂️ that price though 😂

It really is amazing the tubes that are popping up everywhere. We didn't waste any time cleaning out those January Footscrays 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a GEC U709 if anyone is interested. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Extremely-...-/154326884798?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


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## Guidostrunk

And another one to bid on. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mega-Rare-...-/174804825570?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


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## Wes S (Jun 20, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> And another one to bid on.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mega-Rare-...-/174804825570?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


Watching. . .


----------



## Wes S

The Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter is continuing to blow my mind!  This tube is so transparent, and spacious it is incredible.  I am still getting a feel for the sound, and then I will report back with some details, and comparisons.

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> The Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter is continuing to blow my mind!  This tube is so transparent, and spacious it is incredible.  I am still getting a feel for the sound, and then I will report back with some details, and comparisons.
> 
> Happy Rolling and Listening!


I don't have the 3 mica PW Hamburg 6201, but I found the more common blue and white label (mostly branded Valvo) versions to be excellent as well.


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## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I don't have the 3 mica PW Hamburg 6201, but I found the more common blue and white label (mostly branded Valvo) versions to be excellent as well.


Yes sir!  I had a feeling you would be popping in, as I remember you saying the 6201 was one of your favs in the Pendant.  I can't get enough of the the triple mica d getter, and I am gonna try to find some of the other versions to compare.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 20, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Just to see if I could squeeze a bit more out of the Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57', I rolled in a set of Mullard EL84 Disk Getters from Blackburn 55' (earliest version).  I am currently burning them in, and I am quite impressed with what I am hearing so far.  For reference, I am using the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 54' for the rectifier.  I will report back after burn in.
> 
> The Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Disc Getters 55' in the amp, and they are dead silent by the way.


Happy to report, the Mullard EL84 Blackburn Disk Getters 55' are freaking legit.  These power tubes really take the transparency up a notch and have killer detail.  The stage opens up quite a bit as well, compared to the Amperex EL84 D Getters.  Also, the bass is tight with zero bloat and is more subbass focused with deep/powerful impact, vs. the slower more midbass focused Amperex.  You can feel the bass with these Mullards, as they definitely get some air moving.  I have to say these Mullards are a nice compliment to the Amperex, with the Amperex being more romantic/harmonically rich, and the Mullard being more open with better speed & detail.  I like to pair the Mullards with the Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57', and the Amperex with the 6201 Hamburg Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter.

For reference here is a pair of the Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Disc Getters 55' that I just scored on ebay yesterday, so they do become available from time to time.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393391191416

Happy Hunting, Rolling, and Listening.


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## Wes S (Jun 20, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Happy to report, the Mullard EL84 Blackburn Disk Getters 55' are freaking legit.  These power tubes, really take the transparency up a notch and have killer detail.  The stage opens up quite a bit as well, compared to the Amperex EL84 D Getters.  Also, the bass is tight with zero bloat and is more subbass focused with deep/powerful impact, vs. the slower more midbass focused Amperex.  You can feel the bass with these Mullards, as they definitely get some air moving.  I have to say these Mullards are a nice compliment to the Amperex, with the Amperex being more romantic/harmonically rich, and the Mullard being more open with better speed & detail.  I like to pair the Mullards with the Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57', and the Amperex with the 6201 Hamburg Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter.
> 
> For reference here is a pair of the Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Disc Getters 55' that I just scored on ebay yesterday, so they do become available from time to time.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/393391191416
> ...


Just to elaborate a bit on the Mullard EL84.  There are quite a few different versions that came from Blackburn and I have compared the earliest disk getter version from 55' to the next version with Square Getters from 57', and they are definitely not the same.  The Square Getter unfortunately does not have the magic of the Disc Getters, and is warmer/slower and not nearly as transparent and open sounding.  This is just another classic example of earlier is almost always better, when it comes to NOS tubes.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Wes S said:


> Happy to report, the Mullard EL84 Blackburn Disk Getters 55' are freaking legit.  These power tubes, really take the transparency up a notch and have killer detail.  The stage opens up quite a bit as well, compared to the Amperex EL84 D Getters.  Also, the bass is tight with zero bloat and is more subbass focused with deep/powerful impact, vs. the slower more midbass focused Amperex.  You can feel the bass with these Mullards, as they definitely get some air moving.  I have to say these Mullards are a nice compliment to the Amperex, with the Amperex being more romantic/harmonically rich, and the Mullard being more open with better speed & detail.  I like to pair the Mullards with the Brimar CV4033 triple mica Footscray 57', and the Amperex with the 6201 Hamburg Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter.
> 
> For reference here is a pair of the Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Disc Getters 55' that I just scored on ebay yesterday, so they do become available from time to time.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/393391191416
> ...



Thanks for sharing all these suggestions, Wes. As someone who’s still learning about tubes, your posts have been very useful. I’ll be getting the Prima+Amperex+Blackburn combo this week. Can’t wait!


----------



## Wes S

lucasratmundo said:


> Thanks for sharing all these suggestions, Wes. As someone who’s still learning about tubes, your posts have been very useful. I’ll be getting the Prima+Amperex+Blackburn combo this week. Can’t wait!


No problem and glad to help!  I look forward to hearing your thoughts when you get those tubes.


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## Wes S (Jun 21, 2021)

Calling all tube rollers. . . I have to say, after living with the Pendant SE for a month now and rolling all my favorite tubes, this amp is a tube rollers dream come true!   It really is awesome being able to tweak the sound from 3 different angles (input, power & rectifier), and the amount of different input/power tubes and combos you can roll is incredible.  I can really dial in the sound like never before, and it's so much fun.  My hope is more will join in on the fun, and share their tube rolling adventures with us all.  Back to the music it is . . .

Happy Sunday!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I’ve been listening with the Brimar footscray. Makes my previous favorite sound like mud. The RCA clear glass has more bass though. The Brimar sounds awesome with the Tungsram EL84. I actually didn’t like it paired with the Telefunken though. The holographic nature of both the Telefunken and the Brimar was too much for me. I thought it sounded strange. Instrument placement sounded kind of bizzar. Haven’t tried with the Valvo’s yet. I’m enjoying with the Tungsram so much, I’d rsther just listen than change out tubes. I just got a 1959 Amperex/Mullard Blackburn 6ca4. I only have about an hour on that but I’d swear the bass has increased and the noise floor lowered.  
On another note, I ordered the Auteur bocote with aged copper this afternoon. A second ZMF to pair with my Pendant!  The Rad 0 I bought isn’t doing it for me. That will be up for sale shortly to pay for the Auteur.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> I’ve been listening with the Brimar footscray. Makes my previous favorite sound like mud. The RCA clear glass has more bass though. The Brimar sounds awesome with the Tungsram EL84. I actually didn’t like it paired with the Telefunken though. The holographic nature of both the Telefunken and the Brimar was too much for me. I thought it sounded strange. Instrument placement sounded kind of bizzar. Haven’t tried with the Valvo’s yet. I’m enjoying with the Tungsram so much, I’d rsther just listen than change out tubes. I just got a 1959 Amperex/Mullard Blackburn 6ca4. I only have about an hour on that but I’d swear the bass has increased and the noise floor lowered.
> On another note, I ordered the Auteur bocote with aged copper this afternoon. A second ZMF to pair with my Pendant!  The Rad 0 I bought isn’t doing it for me. That will be up for sale shortly to pay for the Auteur.


Those Bocote Auteurs looks stunning, I really love the grain. I think your in for a treat, the Auteur and Pendant are so fricken good, if my house was quiet I don’t think I would have gotten the VC, but here I am about to go off to University again and still need a closed back to not bother my roommate.


----------



## jonathan c

AngryTank said:


> Those Bocote Auteurs looks stunning, I really love the grain. I think your in for a treat, the Auteur and Pendant are so fricken good, if my house was quiet I don’t think I would have gotten the VC, but here I am about to go off to University again and still need a closed back to not bother my roommate.


Times have changed…when I was at university, the h/p was the Sennheiser 414 with the foam pads that rotted and the cable that snapped…


----------



## robo24

4LoveOfSound said:


> I’ve been listening with the Brimar footscray. Makes my previous favorite sound like mud. The RCA clear glass has more bass though. The Brimar sounds awesome with the Tungsram EL84. I actually didn’t like it paired with the Telefunken though. The holographic nature of both the Telefunken and the Brimar was too much for me. I thought it sounded strange. Instrument placement sounded kind of bizzar. Haven’t tried with the Valvo’s yet. I’m enjoying with the Tungsram so much, I’d rsther just listen than change out tubes. I just got a 1959 Amperex/Mullard Blackburn 6ca4. I only have about an hour on that but I’d swear the bass has increased and the noise floor lowered.
> On another note, I ordered the Auteur bocote with aged copper this afternoon. A second ZMF to pair with my Pendant!  The Rad 0 I bought isn’t doing it for me. That will be up for sale shortly to pay for the Auteur.


For me, even more than my other ZMFs, the Pendant really takes the Auteur up another level. Also just got the Arya and it's also excellent with the Pendant on Low Z and quite a bit different than my collection of ZMFs. So it's nice to know it's not just excellent with my ZMFs and Sennheisers which are great matches.

That other slightly cheaper 1956 Brimar from the UK is also amazing, so now I have that and 2 of the footscray!


----------



## AngryTank

jonathan c said:


> Times have changed…when I was at university, the h/p was the Sennheiser 414 with the foam pads that rotted and the cable that snapped…


A bit, definitely not the easiest task coming from a very low income family (not so much anymore), but working myself to where I am feels very accomplishing, but most of it was luck, the fact that everything has worked out for me so far is somewhat surprising.


----------



## Guidostrunk

AngryTank said:


> A bit, definitely not the easiest task coming from a very low income family (not so much anymore), but working myself to where I am feels very accomplishing, but most of it was luck, the fact that everything has worked out for me so far is somewhat surprising.


I'm right there with you bro! A little bit of luck with determination , and hard work,  pays off!


----------



## jonathan c

4LoveOfSound said:


> I just got a 1959 Amperex/Mullard Blackburn 6ca4. I only have about an hour on that but I’d swear the bass has increased and the noise floor lowered.


Interesting! In a Woo WA6, with a change to a Mullard (Blackburn) GZ34, I experienced deeper bass and a lower overall noise floor.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Interesting! In a Woo WA6, with a change to a Mullard (Blackburn) GZ34, I experienced deeper bass and a lower overall noise floor.


Yes sir, lower noise floor and deeper bass, seems to be a theme with early Mullard power and rectifier tubes, and I have had great success with both.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 26, 2021)

Speaking of rectifiers. . .I have been using a special one that I am finally ready to completely spill the beans about.   The G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter is the tube, and it's got some serious magic.  With the G.E.C. the dynamics are in full effect and the stage is very holographic with very good height and front to back projection.  Another thing worth noting is the noise floor is dead silent and this is the quietest my amp has ever been, which just might be it's greatest strength other than the insane drive/dynamics.  This tube is quite rare and the prices are continuing to rise, but I highly suggest considering this rectifier if you want to add some bass power/punch and drive to the sound, while lowering the noise floor.  Compared to the Mullard EZ81 Square Getter that I have been recommending, the U709 has a warmer, tighter and more impactful sound, and the Mullard is wider and cleaner but not as impactful.  The U709 has more midbass and lower mids bloom, which gives it a warmer sound, and the stage is deeper front to back, but not quite as expansive sounding width wise as the Mullard.  They both are outstanding rectifiers, but at the end of the day the G.E.C. U709 has a more organic and natural sound, with better bass punch and dynamics that makes it number 1 for me.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 26, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I’ve been listening with the Brimar footscray. Makes my previous favorite sound like mud. The RCA clear glass has more bass though. The Brimar sounds awesome with the Tungsram EL84. I actually didn’t like it paired with the Telefunken though. The holographic nature of both the Telefunken and the Brimar was too much for me. I thought it sounded strange. Instrument placement sounded kind of bizzar. Haven’t tried with the Valvo’s yet. I’m enjoying with the Tungsram so much, I’d rsther just listen than change out tubes. I just got a 1959 Amperex/Mullard Blackburn 6ca4. I only have about an hour on that but I’d swear the bass has increased and the noise floor lowered.
> On another note, I ordered the Auteur bocote with aged copper this afternoon. A second ZMF to pair with my Pendant!  The Rad 0 I bought isn’t doing it for me. That will be up for sale shortly to pay for the Auteur.


I have to say, I am a bit jealous of you!   Those Bocote Auteur look insanely beautiful, and I was drooling over the pics all day yesterday!  Congrats!  I am an advocate of owning two ZMF's myself, and my VC and Atticus both sound killer with the Pendant, and I can only imagine how good the Auteur is going to sound.  Just throwing this out there should you get an itch, the Amperex EL84 D Getters sound incredible paired up with the Footscray Brimar and the Mullard EZ81.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> I have to say, I am a bit jealous of you!   Those Bocote Auteur look insanely beautiful, and I was drooling over the pics all day yesterday!  Congrats!  I am an advocate of owning two ZMF's myself, and my VC and Atticus both sound killer with the Pendant, and I can only imagine how good the Auteur is going to sound.  Just throwing this out there should you get an itch, the Amperex EL84 D Getters sound incredible paired up with the Footscray Brimar and the Mullard EZ81.


I’ll keep the Amprex EL84 in mind, but for now, the wallet needs to stay closed!


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone have a picture of pendant internals?

Anyone compare to Woo wa22 or any DNA/EC models?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound




----------



## 4LoveOfSound




----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Not the best pictures….. sorry


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Not the best pictures….. sorry


Those are great!  I always wondered what is under the hood, now I know.


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## 1-MiC (Jul 1, 2021)

NOT ME!
Look I can change your break pads and install some new rotors, maybe even change your thermostat. I do some woodworking... but nothing electrical, yet.
So I certainly_* never*_ look over and the pendant and think "let me pop the hood off this bad boy and take a look inside."

 No sir, not me.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I changed out the feet on mine. I put SVS vibration absorption feet on. Did it make a difference?  Ehhh, no. I put vibra pods under my Schiit Freya+. Those did make a difference with microphonics with the Freya.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 1, 2021)

Anyone with a good tube roll lately?


----------



## Wes S

For those a little late to the party, or if anyone wants to hear what a good input tube can do for the Pendant, I would not miss out on the Footscray Triple Mica CV4033.

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use

This tube is very well balanced, therefore would pair well with any headphone or tube combo.  For instance, with lots of the more popular tubes most will have issues in at least one part of the FR, but with this tube there are none.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


>


Looking at those pictures some more, I can see why there is a bit of wait to get one of these beauties made.  There are lots of little parts and looks quite complicated to me.


----------



## Wes S

Happy to report my Atticus is dead silent on the High Z output!  There is no hum at all!   I am actually digging the Atticus even more than my VC with the Pendant SE, as there is some serious magic going on with this pairing.  The grip, control and impact are stunning!

Tube combo that is taking my Atticus to a level of performance I did not know was possible.

Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getter Footscray 56' > Valvo EL84 Dish Getters Hamburg 54' > G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 54'

With this combo, the midbass is tightend up, the stage opens up, and becomes super holographic.  There is better seperation and images are huge and fully fleshed out, and everything sounds very lifelike, especially the vocals.  Honestly, I think I prefer the Atticus with the Pendant SE over my VC.  

Note, the Amperex 7189 D Getters were too warm and especially in the middbass for the Atticus, so I rolled in the Valvo EL84 Dish Getters, which tightened up the middbass, and expanded the stage in all directions. 

I am absolutely loving this pairing!


----------



## AngryTank

Wes S said:


> Looking at those pictures some more, I can see why there is a bit of wait to get one of these beauties made.  There are lots of little parts and looks quite complicated to me.


Like I was saying, you never really get to see behind the scenes and really appreciate certain aspects of a product. It hits me every now and then, like the pairing of the Amp and HP, it’s just an experience that no Tube amp that I’ve previously could provide.


----------



## lucasratmundo (Jul 1, 2021)

Wes S said:


> For those a little late to the party, or if anyone wants to hear what a good input tube can do for the Pendant, I would not miss out on the Footscray Triple Mica CV4033.
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
> 
> This tube is very well balanced, therefore would pair well with any headphone or tube combo.  For instance, with lots of the more popular tubes most will have issues in at least one part of the FR, but with this tube there are none.


Happy to vouch for the Footscray Mica CV4033 too! I got it a week ago and I've been really happy with it.


----------



## steve468

I’ve been trying out this fabled Footscray 4033 that’s been such a hit in this thread. The hype is real! It has a lovely balance and an incredible 3D soundstage. Really neat! It does beat out the Brimar 6060 in those areas. However, the 6060 still wins the high frequencies; cymbals in particular have much more of a ring than a tsh, though of course this is recording dependant.

BUT! I had a crazy thing happen when I was first testing out the 4033. After a few minutes of warm up, I heard a thumping rhythmic static coming from the left side (I always use beater headphones to warm up my amp). I looked at the tubes and noticed the left power tube was flashing blue in time with the static! This doesn’t seem to happen with tougher tubes like the Tube Store 7189 (actually an 80’s Russian 6P14P-EV) or Sovtek EL84M. Even then, the right power tube glows brighter than the left. What the heck?

 I’m still testing to see if it’s the Footscray or what, but I have been wondering if something is off with my amp. I sometimes get loud static or even no sound on the right side until I wiggle the input tube around. But never anything like this!


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, Those Footscary are the REAL deal!!!


----------



## Wes S

steve468 said:


> I’ve been trying out this fabled Footscray 4033 that’s been such a hit in this thread. The hype is real! It has a lovely balance and an incredible 3D soundstage. Really neat! It does beat out the Brimar 6060 in those areas. However, the 6060 still wins the high frequencies; cymbals in particular have much more of a ring than a tsh, though of course this is recording dependant.
> 
> BUT! I had a crazy thing happen when I was first testing out the 4033. After a few minutes of warm up, I heard a thumping rhythmic static coming from the left side (I always use beater headphones to warm up my amp). I looked at the tubes and noticed the left power tube was flashing blue in time with the static! This doesn’t seem to happen with tougher tubes like the Tube Store 7189 (actually an 80’s Russian 6P14P-EV) or Sovtek EL84M. Even then, the right power tube glows brighter than the left. What the heck?
> 
> I’m still testing to see if it’s the Footscray or what, but I have been wondering if something is off with my amp. I sometimes get loud static or even no sound on the right side until I wiggle the input tube around. But never anything like this!


Oh man, that does not sound good.  I would get in touch with Justin, if I were you.  I have not had anything like that happen with my amp.


----------



## jonathan c

steve468 said:


> I’ve been trying out this fabled Footscray 4033 that’s been such a hit in this thread. The hype is real!


‘This thread’…check out the Schiit Mjolnir 2 Listening Impressions thread for being a hit!
_____________________________
The Footscrayziness is everywhere: number 1 tube ranking on various participants lists. Even the avatars for a number of participants have been changed in acknowledgment of the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB (Footscray 1956-57) supremacy. What other tube has a tribute T-Shirt?
_____________________________
The Footscray did not claw its way to the top via blood, sweat, and tears. It arrived, was better than every other 12AT7, and assumed its mantle at the summit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Other than Wes and Jon. I'm curious if anyone else in this thread was able to score the 56 Footscray square getters?


----------



## hikaru12

robo24 said:


> Just came home from a week away to a bunch of new tubes I'd ordered, but put the Brimar ones in, along with the 1959 Mullard Blackburn EZ81 and 1958 Amperex Holland D getters. Hadn't listened to much and largely with bluetooth headphones on planes all week, so the Pendant sound with other tubes I didn't compare with yet. Just the Verite Open so far with universe suede pads and put shuffle music on. The DAC is the TT2.
> 
> Man or man, this is just crazy! Some John Mayer came on first and had that same experience Wes described, like he's singing just right there and everything was so spread out and distinct, almost HD800 like, and like I'd never heard the song before. Then came on something from Dee-Lite's last album, which is already a pretty trippy /spacey album and again, vocals much more forward than I'm used to with the Verite Open and sounds kind of coming from all over the place. I mean I loved my Pendant SE with the stock tubes, even more with some of the NOS tubes Zach sent, but this is just on another level. Several other tubes arrived too, so I have plenty to roll now, but I don't see ending up with more tubes. I'm guessing most of this is due to the Brimar tube, and I'd strongly suggest Pendant owners give it a try, and if you somehow don't like them just list them for sale. I'd certainly buy more and probably will now while there's some left available.
> 
> I remember when I first got into the hobby with the HD700 and Woo WA7 and was so blown away and told myself (for about 2 weeks, lol) that I was done spending money on more headphones & amps because I'd already spent too much. Just amazes me not only that this amp can still be quite a leap over my prior tube amps and now that this tube combo is yet another (smaller) leap. I fear what will happen once I go to CanJam and hopefully listen to more of Justin's amps higher up in the lineup. For now though fiscal reality has me stopping here. I don't need it to get better and won't be buying other tubes for the Pendant, except backups of these 4. I love that I can _still_ be blown away in this hobby! And thank you, @Wes S !



I actually just got a new job that pays way better than my previous position which will finally allow me to afford this amp without having to make sacrifices here and there. Have quite a bit of stuff going on this year but I feel after reading Wes and everyone else's impressions that I'm finally going to pull the trigger. I just hope I can get the noise issues under control from what everyone is saying.


----------



## lucasratmundo

I've been driving my Pendant SE with the Footscray 4033 (Input), G.E.C. U709 (Rectifier) and a pair of Telefunkens (Power) and I love how silent and spacious this combo sounds! I'll be doing some A/B testing with Amperex tubes (Power) in the coming days.


----------



## domi

lucasratmundo said:


> I've been driving my Pendant SE with the Footscray 4033 (Input), G.E.C. U709 (Rectifier) and a pair of Telefunkens (Power) and I love how silent and spacious this combo sounds! I'll be doing some A/B testing with Amperex tubes (Power) in the coming days.


How much is reasonable for U709? Any reliable sellers?

I checked Ebay but they're asking for $550 so that's a pass from me if that's the normal price


----------



## lucasratmundo

domi said:


> How much is reasonable for U709? Any reliable sellers?
> 
> I checked Ebay but they're asking for $550 so that's a pass from me if that's the normal price


The price is kinda ridiculous. I bought mine from a seller in Vietnam on eBay for $400.


----------



## Guidostrunk

domi said:


> How much is reasonable for U709? Any reliable sellers?
> 
> I checked Ebay but they're asking for $550 so that's a pass from me if that's the normal price


Here's this one. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Extremely-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## steve468

Does the U709 make that much of a difference? I have a handful of rectifiers at this point, but I'm honestly not sure I can tell them apart. I use a Mullard square getter mostly for the name brand recognition


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

steve468 said:


> Does the U709 make that much of a difference? I have a handful of rectifiers at this point, but I'm honestly not sure I can tell them apart. I use a Mullard square getter mostly for the name brand recognition


The U709 is warmer than the the Mullard Square Getter, with more mid bass punch and lower mids warmth.  The stage on the U709 is not as wide, but is deeper front to back with tighter imaging and a more holographic like feel.  The treble might be a bit more extended on the Mullard, but the U709 also sounds more natural and organic.  I own both and only use the U709.


----------



## Wes S

domi said:


> How much is reasonable for U709? Any reliable sellers?
> 
> I checked Ebay but they're asking for $550 so that's a pass from me if that's the normal price


$250 is about the going rate at the moment.


----------



## lucasratmundo

steve468 said:


> Does the U709 make that much of a difference? I have a handful of rectifiers at this point, but I'm honestly not sure I can tell them apart. I use a Mullard square getter mostly for the name brand recognition


In my (limited) experience with tube rolling so far, individual tubes generally only make a subtle different. It's the specific tube set (rectifier + power + input) that makes more noticeable difference as a whole. With that said, Footscray 4033 was the one that made a bigger difference on its own in terms of soundstage for me.


----------



## Wes S

lucasratmundo said:


> In my (limited) experience with tube rolling so far, individual tubes generally only make a subtle different. It's the specific tube set (rectifier + power + input) that makes more noticeable difference as a whole. With that said, Footscray 4033 was the one that made a bigger difference on its own in terms of soundstage for me.


The U709 is another tube like the Footscray CV4033, in that it's got some magic and makes a noticeable difference on it's own.  I highly recommend the U709, if you can't tell.


----------



## Wes S

There are tubes that make a bigger difference than others, with input, power, and rectifier tubes, it just depends which ones.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

A few tubes that have made the most noticeable difference and are above the rest of the pack.

Input - Brimar CV455 Square Getter Triple Mica 56', Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getter 56', 6201 Triple Mica Pinched Waist D Getter 58', 7730 Long Plate Square Getter, Raytheon/CBS 7728, Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica O Getter 57'

Power - Amperex EL84 D Getters (Sittard, Holland), Amperex 7189 D Getters (Sittard, Holland), Mullard Blackburn EL 84 Disk Getters, Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters

Rectifier - Mullard EZ81 Square Getter (earlier the better), G.E.C. U709

With all these tubes, I can dial in the sound like no other, and get it sounding very lifelike.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

To elaborate a bit on the tubes listed above -

Input -

Brimar CV455 Square Getter Triple Mica 56' - This tube can be bought from Langrex for $65 a piece NOS, and is the best deal out there period.  This tube is a super version of the CV4033, and has very holographic like staging, an incredible amount of micro detail and nuance comes through with this tube, the bass is tight and hits with authority, the mids are perfect and very natural and lifelike sounding, and the highs have sparkle but are never harsh.  What's not to like?

Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getter 56' - A slightly slower and less resolving version of the CV455, everything else still applies sound wise.

Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica O Getter 57'- Again a slightly slower, warmer and less resolving version of the Square Getter above, but mostly the same sonics overall.

6201 Triple Mica Pinched Waist D Getter 58' - The ultimate in transparency, sound stage expansion, and impact.  This tube is insanity to the max, and will blow anyone away with it's perfect balance top to bottom, and dynamics.  Talk about being "there", this tube does it in spades.  You can feel the music, with this tube, and hear every little detail and nuance in the recording.

7730 Long Plate Square Getter - Another killer tube, with good speed and dynamics, and a very holographic stage presentation.  The tube has very good dynamics, and punch, with a bit of a mid bass and lower mids bloom, but is still very detailed and lifelike.  The highs are a bit rolled, but still present and it is just a very fun and engaging tube to listen to.  I love this tube, and it will always get some play time.

Raytheon/CBS 7728 O Getter (1 hole plate version) - A similar presentation to the 7730, but not as natural and lifelike and lacking some of the magic of the 7730.  I nice alternative if you can't find the 7730, and need or want a little more gain.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 11, 2021)

Elaboration of tubes cont. . .

Power -

Amperex EL84 D Getters (Sittard, Holland) - Warm, yet detailed, with good mid bass punch, rich mids, and forward vocals, with good top end extension, the stage is tighter with this tube, with good imaging

Amperex 7189 D Getters (Sittard, Holland) - A slightly cleaner and more spacious sound, with less mid bass and more sub bass than the tube above (EL84 version)

Mullard Blackburn EL 84 Disk Getters - A clean and punchy sounding tube, with a huge stage expanding in all directions.  This tube is more sub bass focused than the Amperex and is cleaner and more spacious sounding.  The highs soar with this tube as well.  I find this tube to have the most detail of the the power tubes I have tried and they sound the most lifelike as a result.  They have some magic for sure that I can't put into words, but this is my number 1.

Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters - A huge stage presentation, with tight bass, and warm lush mids, and soaring highs.  Not quite as resolving as the tubes above, but very romantic and natural sounding, with a typical old Hamburg Valvo house sound.


Rectifier -

U709 G.E.C. - Warm, punchy, holographic, natural, lifelike, impactful, mid bass, and lower mids bloom

Mullard EZ81 Square Getter (earlier the better) - Clean, wide, and impactful sub bass focused, with really good detail and extended highs


Happy hunting, rolling, and listening!


----------



## Rattle

Is it ok if I play ? Scored a used minty OG. Just using stock JJ tubes. Don't even want to think about tube rolling. It did come with a few tubes though, not that I'd know where to start. Anyway it's dead quiet for me no hum or noise. That kind of scared me after seeing many reports. It's plugged into a cmx2 and bifrost 2.


----------



## Wes S

Rattle said:


> Is it ok if I play ? Scored a used minty OG. Just using stock JJ tubes. Don't even want to think about tube rolling. It did come with a few tubes though, not that I'd know where to start. Anyway it's dead quiet for me no hum or noise. That kind of scared me after seeing many reports. It's plugged into a cmx2 and bifrost 2.


Nice!  Looks great and I am curious what wood is the base?


----------



## Rattle

Wes S said:


> Nice!  Looks great and I am curious what wood is the base?


Camphor burl the side panels are more sexy.


----------



## Wes S

Rattle said:


> Camphor burl the side panels are more sexy.


Oh man!  I bet that looks killer in person.


----------



## Rattle

Wes S said:


> Oh man!  I bet that looks killer in person.


It's very pleasing, not super flashy more subtle which I prefer than super blingy. Finally got my big boy amp.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Pretty sure that was mine….. if so, it sounded awesome!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 11, 2021)

I just can't seem to get enough of listening with my Pendant SE these days, and ever since getting it my listening time has tripled.  I absolutely love this amp, and I had been dreaming of owning one since it was first released years ago.  This amp is every thing I hope it would be and more.  I have said it before and I will say it again, this amp is a tube rollers dream come true. There are so many different options for the input tube, and quite a few for the power, and for the rectifier throw in a U709 black plate square getter or Mullard EZ81 Square Getter and call it a day.

As for input tubes, there is a tube from Brimar in the 50's with several different versions that is tops and widely available.  Of the different versions, the Brimar CV455 Footscray Square Getter 56', is my favorite.  The really cool thing is this tube is priced right and there are a ton in stock.  Get em while they are hot! 

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## Rattle

4LoveOfSound said:


> Pretty sure that was mine….. if so, it sounded awesome!


It is yours looks like from the pics you had posted. The wood grains match up perfect. I see you ended up with an SE after. Can you describe your opinion on the differences in sound ?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Rattle said:


> It is yours looks like from the pics you had posted. The wood grains match up perfect. I see you ended up with an SE after. Can you describe your opinion on the differences in sound ?


See post #342.  There wasn’t much difference.  I sold the original before the SE was fully broken in, so there may be a bigger difference now but I doubt it.  Trust me, you aren’t settling with a used OG model.


----------



## Rattle

4LoveOfSound said:


> See post #342.  There wasn’t much difference.  I sold the original before the SE was fully broken in, so there may be a bigger difference now but I doubt it.  Trust me, you aren’t settling with a used OG model.


No it's not what I am thinking ! Thanks for backing up my thoughts. I am no need of OMG I need it to be an SE lol. I got a sweet deal on it and have only listened to it a couple days with all stock JJ's. I do have a bunch of tubes I need to experiment with. I was pretty happy how good HD650 and Aeolus blackwood sounds. I'd like to tweak the mids a tiny bit with some rolling maybe. This amp is quiet out of High Z so I have no complaints. Best amps I had ever heard before this were Starlett and 3F. Loved the DNA the most, pendant is zippier and not as romantic sounding but in a great way. I wouldn't mind moving it a bit towards that DNA sound if I can with some rolling.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I’m not the guy to help you with that.  I’ve never heard either of those amps and I haven’t been in the tube world that long.


----------



## Rattle

4LoveOfSound said:


> I’m not the guy to help you with that.  I’ve never heard either of those amps and I haven’t been in the tube world that long.


Yep I know there's some tube wizards here. From what I understand the input tube followed by the 2 driver tubes effects sound the most.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Rattle said:


> Yep I know there's some tube wizards here. From what I understand the input tube followed by the 2 driver tubes effects sound the most.


@Wes S just put some excellent ones up for sale!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 19, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S just put some excellent ones up for sale!


I was just going to spread the news, and @4LoveOfSound beat me to it.      I have 2 pairs of very nice sounding Valvo EL84 Hamburg Dish Getters listed, and both pairs are quiet in the Pendant SE by the way.  These are excellent power tubes, and they are priced to sell.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

Anyone have a good tube roll lately?  This thread is so quiet for such an amazing amp, that it blows my mind?    

I really am shocked that more tube rollers have not jumped on the wagon.  I mean just think about this, you only need one driver/input tube which makes finding really special NOS tubes much easier.  When looking for rare and special sounding NOS tubes, finding singles vs. a matched pair really is like night and day and there are way more singles available.  Also, still talking about the input/driver tube, how cool is it that you can use a 12AU7, 12AT7 or 12AX7 all without an adapter.  I can't stand adapters, as I don't like the look of them, and I think they can have a slightly negative impact on the sound as well, so not having to use them is a big plus for me.  Speaking of the 12A_ 7 family of tubes, they are killer and sound better than most other tubes I have heard, and there are so many different sound sigs available within those families it is crazy.  Now on to the power tubes, and the famous EL84.  There are not as many options with the EL84 as there are with the input/driver tubes, but there are still quite a few with completely different sound sigs.  The power tubes are definitely the trickiest part of the tube combo, being that you need a really quiet matched pair, but luckily that tube is so popular and is used in a lot of guitar amps as well, so they can take a beating (can handle up to 17 watts) and there are tons of good ones available like my number one rec, the Amperex Holland EL84 D Getters.  Finally on to the rectifier, and again you only need one which is amazing, and there are a few really good choices like the Mullard EZ81 Square Getter (easily attainable) or G.E.C. U709 (rare as can be), both having completely different sounds sigs.

Here are a couple of tube combos that really take my VC to another level and put me "There" with my favorite musicians.

Brimar CV455 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter from Footscray 56' (driver), Amperex 7189 D Getters (power), and Mullard EZ81 Square Getter (rectifier)

Philips 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter from Hamburg 58' (driver), Amperex 7189 D Getters (power) , and G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter (rectifier)


So back to my original question, anyone have a good tube roll lately?


----------



## steve468

One tube I've been enjoying a lot lately, that I don't see mentioned on the internet alot, is a Mullard M8162. It's a weird one because it has...every label there is; just on the tube itself it has M8162, 12at7wa, CV4024, and the box also indicates B309 which I believe is a GEC designation. Date codes say it's from the Mitcham plant in 1958.

The sound is absolutely up there with many of the greats mentioned in this thread. It has maybe the biggest bass of any input tube I've heard, but it also has clarity and detail as well. The highs are clear, extended and sweet. So, it has that "typical Mullard sound" without that syrupy, tubey softness.

I often pair it with Amperex d-getters for mids detail, but it seems to pair well with everything. 

This is the tube here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184391947782?hash=item2aee9dd606:g:N20AAOSwtq1fLALw


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

steve468 said:


> One tube I've been enjoying a lot lately, that I don't see mentioned on the internet alot, is a Mullard M8162. It's a weird one because it has...every label there is; just on the tube itself it has M8162, 12at7wa, CV4024, and the box also indicates B309 which I believe is a GEC designation. Date codes say it's from the Mitcham plant in 1958.
> 
> The sound is absolutely up there with many of the greats mentioned in this thread. It has maybe the biggest bass of any input tube I've heard, but it also has clarity and detail as well. The highs are clear, extended and sweet. So, it has that "typical Mullard sound" without that syrupy, tubey softness.
> 
> ...


Heck yeah man!      Good stuff, and thanks for sharing!

I love old Mullards, and especially the early wrinkled glass varieties (58' and older), which often don't have the syrupy sound of the latter years Mullards.  I actually have a tube rolling buddy in another thread that speaks highly of that same tube, and now that you confirmed it sounds great in the Pendant, I might have to give that one a shot.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I bought a set of expensive 6SN7 tubes from that seller early this year.  I had an issue with one tube.  He took them back without an issue.  I left a 5 star review for customer service.  I just tried to buy the above Mullard, and he blocked me from making offers or purchasing his products.  Just an FYI.  If he doesn’t want to sell to me, that’s his right.  I’ve bought about 25 various tubes off Ebay this year.  No other issues.

I’m still enjoying the Footscray!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I bought a set of expensive 6SN7 tubes from that seller early this year.  I had an issue with one tube.  He took them back without an issue.  I left a 5 star review for customer service.  I just tried to buy the above Mullard, and he blocked me from making offers or purchasing his products.  Just an FYI.  If he doesn’t want to sell to me, that’s his right.  I’ve bought about 25 various tubes off Ebay this year.  No other issues.
> 
> I’m still enjoying the Footscray!


Wow!  That's good to know.  I have recommended Tube Maze in the past, but will not being doing it anymore.  That's just bad business, and I won't be supporting them going forward, even if they have the tube I am looking for.  Us tube rollers need to stick together, and Tube Maze just got added to my Black List. I don't want to buy a tube with a "return policy" like that, so thanks for sharing as this really is good to know.

The Footscray is a killer tube and especially the CV455 Square Getter from 56'.


----------



## steve468

Huh, weird. I've bought a bunch of stuff from Tubemaze in the past, and even returned a bad tube with no incident. 

Anybody know of some other trustworthy sellers, especially for these unobtainium early 50s European tubes I'm always reading about?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2021)

steve468 said:


> Huh, weird. I've bought a bunch of stuff from Tubemaze in the past, and even returned a bad tube with no incident.
> 
> Anybody know of some other trustworthy sellers, especially for these unobtainium early 50s European tubes I'm always reading about?


Here is one of my favorites and one I have bought so many tubes from I have lost count, with zero issues at all.  Great communication, and he actually checks most tubes for noise and microphonics in his system on top of testing, has a no hassle return policy, and is in the U.S.

ap1278


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2021)

Here are a few more reputable tube dealers on Ebay, that many of my tube rolling buddies and myself have had great success with for years.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/dan198745

laurferre_33

A couple more not on Ebay.

http://vintagetubeservices.com

https://tubeworldexpress.com


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

New stand to go with the Pendant!  Really makes the camphorburl pop too


----------



## hikaru12

I believe this has been answered already on this thread but the search function is not making it easy for me to find - has anyone gotten the dimensions of the Pendant SE? Trying to allocate some space on my desk and seeing what should go where. Thanks in advance!!


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> I believe this has been answered already on this thread but the search function is not making it easy for me to find - has anyone gotten the dimensions of the Pendant SE? Trying to allocate some space on my desk and seeing what should go where. Thanks in advance!!


12.5" × 9.75"


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> 12.5" × 9.75"



Thanks Wes! I was actually comparing it to the Bottlehead Mainline when I stumbled across something. The Mainline uses these metal cap tube things that go over their power tubes to prevent noise from external sources like rogue radio waves, Bluetooth, etc. I'm wondering if the same thing could be employed for use on the EL84 tubes used on the Pendant and if that would make it so you wouldn't need to find the perfect pair of quiet tubes as they'd be less sensitive to interference?

For reference this is what I'm talking about - it's basically an aluminum cap that goes right over the tube:


----------



## Wes S (Jul 28, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks Wes! I was actually comparing it to the Bottlehead Mainline when I stumbled across something. The Mainline uses these metal cap tube things that go over their power tubes to prevent noise from external sources like rogue radio waves, Bluetooth, etc. I'm wondering if the same thing could be employed for use on the EL84 tubes used on the Pendant and if that would make it so you wouldn't need to find the perfect pair of quiet tubes as they'd be less sensitive to interference?
> 
> For reference this is what I'm talking about - it's basically an aluminum cap that goes right over the tube:


No problem and I personally would take a slightly noisy tube, over using those ugly metal shields.  Just throwing this out there, the Pendant doesn't really require anything special with the EL84's, you just need to find a quiet pair that is matched, which is the same thing for any amp that uses a pair of them.  Also, all it takes is moving the amp away from routers, phones etc. . .and the noise is gone.  So, I wouldn't fret over that if it were me.

Just for reference, the last 4 pairs of EL84'S I have bought on ebay are quiet in my Pendant, so sourcing quiet tubes is not hard at all.

Lastly, a big part of my enjoyment with the Pendant SE, is being able to see the tubes and their glowing triodes.  So, covering them up with some metal shields is just a no go for me.


----------



## fuhransahis (Jul 28, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks Wes! I was actually comparing it to the Bottlehead Mainline when I stumbled across something. The Mainline uses these metal cap tube things that go over their power tubes to prevent noise from external sources like rogue radio waves, Bluetooth, etc. I'm wondering if the same thing could be employed for use on the EL84 tubes used on the Pendant and if that would make it so you wouldn't need to find the perfect pair of quiet tubes as they'd be less sensitive to interference?
> 
> For reference this is what I'm talking about - it's basically an aluminum cap that goes right over the tube:





Wes S said:


> No problem and I personally would take a slightly noisy tube, over using those ugly metal shields.  Just throwing this out there, the Pendant doesn't really require anything special with the EL84's, you just need to find a quiet pair that is matched, which is the same thing for any amp that uses a pair of them.  Also, all it takes is moving the amp away from routers, phones etc. . .and the noise is gone.  So, I wouldn't fret over that if it were me.
> 
> Just for reference, the last 4 pairs of EL84'S I have bought on ebay are quiet in my Pendant, so sourcing quiet tubes is not hard at all.
> 
> Lastly, a big part of my enjoyment with the Pendant SE, is being able to see the tubes and their glowing triodes.  So, covering them up with some metal shields is just a no go for me.



I also get a bit of noise from the Pendant but it is very clearly because I have it right next to where my router, work laptop, printer, and phone all sit and charge and so on, so I occasionally do get a bit of RF noise.

I also can't move the amp away from them since I have limited desk space, and only a very specific spot to place it.

I was thinking about trying those aluminum tube covers but I figured I'd try with a piece of aluminum foil and see if I heard any difference first.

So when I put a flat, folded piece of foil in between the the tubes and the router, the noise disappeared. But I didn't exactly want the amp looking like it's wearing a tin foil hat 🤔

So I put the foil right next to the router, and the noise was gone with that placement too. Wasn't going to leave it out there either, so finally I placed the foil inside of the case of another set of HPs, and just rested that by the router, and got a fix that's discrete and works


----------



## hikaru12

fuhransahis said:


> I also get a bit of noise from the Pendant but it is very clearly because I have it right next to where my router, work laptop, printer, and phone all sit and charge and so on, so I occasionally do get a bit of RF noise.
> 
> I also can't move the amp away from them since I have limited desk space, and only a very specific spot to place it.
> 
> ...



Great way to preserve the look of the amp and get your desired results. I’m in the same boat I have limited desk space and can’t really relocate the router so I’d have to find a way to prevent the interference.


----------



## Wes S

fuhransahis said:


> I also get a bit of noise from the Pendant but it is very clearly because I have it right next to where my router, work laptop, printer, and phone all sit and charge and so on, so I occasionally do get a bit of RF noise.
> 
> I also can't move the amp away from them since I have limited desk space, and only a very specific spot to place it.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty cool fix, and thanks for sharing.  I am sure many will appreciate that.


----------



## robo24 (Jul 30, 2021)

I seem to be pretty lucky with my SE and have the same situation with 5 feet of desk crammed with stuff, router, several devices on my WiFi network, 2 with cell signals, etc. Only sporadically have I heard any noise. For whatever reason I seem to pick up more noise with my Atticus, but none of the other ZMFs. Even then it's not like I hear it when music is playing even under 70db. A couple times I found moving my iphone _closer_ to the Pendant made the noise disappear. Only 1 cell carrier reaches my home, no TV signal, and limited radio so maybe that's part of it too.


----------



## AngryTank

Do you guys know if it’s ok to use a Jotunheim 2 with Dac to feed the Pendant SE with the pre outs?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

AngryTank said:


> Do you guys know if it’s ok to use a Jotunheim 2 with Dac to feed the Pendant SE with the pre outs?


Should not be a problem. I’ve used both the Schiit Magnius pre outs and the Freya + pre outs into my SE without a problem. Now I have it running from the Yggy through the Lokius into the SE.


----------



## AngryTank

4LoveOfSound said:


> Should not be a problem. I’ve used both the Schiit Magnius pre outs and the Freya + pre outs into my SE without a problem. Now I have it running from the Yggy through the Lokius into the SE.


Alrighty, just wanted to make sure I’m not going to mess the Pendant up, I found a loca deal on a Jotunheim 2 with Ak 4490, and since I am no longer with my M15, would like to replace the dac with with something sub $500.


----------



## AngryTank

Any other Dacs you guys would recommend? I was looking at a Gungnir Multibit, but was also on the look out for a Bitfrost


----------



## ampsandsound

The Gumby is great sounding. I now own a Bifrost 2 and a Yiggy. 
I think the Gymby is nicer than the Bifrist but maybe splitting hairs.


----------



## 1-MiC

Wes S said:


> Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica O Getter 57'- Again a slightly slower, warmer and less resolving version of the Square Getter above, but mostly the same sonics overall.



I didn't read this, until after I read all the positive impressions of the CV4033, and all the recommendations to buy. I stopped reading, bought the tube, then 2 pages later you mention there is a better tube at a better price lol. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and impressions either way, thank you very much.

That being said, I did just receive the Brimar CV4033 tube today. This is my first tube roll on my first tube amp... and I get it now. I was skeptical, going in, but I am indeed pleased with the changes I'm hearing. I've never listened to the stock JJ tubes, I've only listened to the supplied upgraded NOS tubes from ZMF, so I wasn't expecting a big difference. In truth it's not huge, but what has changed is _very _pleasing. 
I'm hearing a stronger more profound bass delivery, I don't think it's bloated, it still sounds pretty controlled, but clearly there is more. It's the first thing I noticed. I had to reference a couple bass heavy tracks to make sure I wasn't fooling myself. The one thing I missed about having lambskin pads on my EIkon was the extra heft in the bass. Using my suede pads currently, and thanks to this tube, I don't see myself missing the lambskin pads anymore.
I'm hearing more depth to the soundstage that I didn't realize was missing. Vocals, for example, are forward and beautifully fill out the center image, while the music is spread out wide, just behind them. This is something I got out of the Hifiman Ananda when I had it, which I loved about those cans. Those are the only planars I've ever owned, so I just thought it was a planar thing, It's surprising to me that that I'm getting the same characteristic out of a tube roll!

Anyways, those are the two biggest changes that I've noticed. Mids still sound great, soundstage still is holographic, top end is still smooth, nothing my previous tubes didn't do for me anyways.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Has anyone heard or reviewed both the Pendant and Forge amps?


----------



## galileaux

Finally got my Pendant SE today!! So far over the moon with it - with no burn-in it already sounds fantastic. I got them to use with a VC (which isn’t here yet) but have tested them so far with the Arya, MDR-Z1R, and Celestee.

It tamed the treble on the Arya, and made vocals sound more full-bodied, with a more pronounced soundstage (out of the Low Z output).

With the other two though I hear a very pronounced crackling, almost like I’m playing a dirty record. I hear this very very faintly on the Arya too, but with the other two it’s very pronounced and actually impacts the listening experience. Is this something that would go away with burn-in, or is it indicative of a problem? It briefly stops during busy or loud parts of songs. When there’s no music playing it gets less pronounced.

I have a set of NOS tubes from ZMF arriving tomorrow as well, along with the much recommended Brimar CV4033 1957 Footscray coming next week.
​


----------



## galileaux

And the crackling issue is solved! The culprit was a Powerline Ethernet adaptor plugged into a nearby socket! Once it was removed, the Pendant sounds extremely clean.
Couldn’t be happier with this amp - also looking forward to try new tubes.


----------



## Wes S

galileaux said:


> And the crackling issue is solved! The culprit was a Powerline Ethernet adaptor plugged into a nearby socket! Once it was removed, the Pendant sounds extremely clean.
> Couldn’t be happier with this amp - also looking forward to try new tubes.


Nice detective work there and welcome to the club!


----------



## Baldeagle58

I have a pendant (not the SE version) and have had a minor hum since the day that I first turned it on. I have tried a lot of things at Zach’s and others suggestion. Wondered if there was any possibility that it could be DC current. IFI (and others I guess) sell “DC filters”. Wondered if anyone else had tried this possible remedy.
Happy Listening all.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Baldeagle58 said:


> I have a pendant (not the SE version) and have had a minor hum since the day that I first turned it on. I have tried a lot of things at Zach’s and others suggestion. Wondered if there was any possibility that it could be DC current. IFI (and others I guess) sell “DC filters”. Wondered if anyone else had tried this possible remedy.
> Happy Listening all.


Do you hear the hum at all times when it is plugged in, from several inches or feet away? If so it could be DC current on your home's electric circuit is causing the transformers to hum. I have a Monoprice 5X speaker amp I could hear buzzing from several feet away. Its a common complaint about that amp and its large transformers. I found this Emotiva CMX-2 device eliminated the DC offset and it no longer buzzes:

https://emotiva.com/products/cmx-2


----------



## Baldeagle58

The hum is in the headphones not a general amp hum. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear there. It’s not ruining the music or anything like that but on high Z it’s audible when the unit is switched on. Low Z helps and that is what I have been using. It would be great to totally get rid of it.


----------



## Wes S

Baldeagle58 said:


> The hum is in the headphones not a general amp hum. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear there. It’s not ruining the music or anything like that but on high Z it’s audible when the unit is switched on. Low Z helps and that is what I have been using. It would be great to totally get rid of it.


Could just be the tubes.  I had some noisy stock JJ EL84's.


----------



## Baldeagle58

Thanks for the reply. It’s not the tubes because I have tried any number of those. Currently have tung sol in the EL84 slots and a vintage brimar 12au7 as the small tube.
I have tried everything and just wondered if anyone had tried getting rid of the DC from the wall wart. I have the unit plugged into a Walker Velocitor in actual fact. 
It’s probably time to just “Listen to the music”. That’s the most important thing.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My new Auteurs should arrive Friday. I can’t wait to have a listen on the SE!


----------



## Wes S (Sep 15, 2021)

Found another killer tube, and it’s been blowing my mind. Folks, the RFT ECC81 Folded Plate Foil Disc Getter is an amazing tube, and my new number 1 recommended driver/input tube for the Pendant. This tube is well balanced top to bottom and has the largest most expansive stage presentation I have heard with the Pendant. The bass is super powerful, digs deep, hits hard and is tight and textured. You will feel the impact with this tube. The mids are transparent, textured and detailed to the max, as in you will hear more little nuances and stuff in the recording you have not heard before, and the highs soar. This tube has an amazing ability to make the headphones seemingly disappear and the sound fills the entire room. Talk about being “there” with the musicians, this tube does it. I have been known to hype up tubes in the past, but rest assured this tube is worth the hype, and is a real stunner. The way it can produce nuance and micro details is addictive to listen with. The really cool thing is this tube can be found easily and is highly affordable at $15 a piece.  

Here is where I bought mine.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265288187061






For reference, compared to the Brimar CV4033 and CV455 the RFT is much more open sounding and transparent, with better detail, but never harsh. The RFT also has better extension on both ends, and better balance overall.


----------



## nwavesailor (Sep 15, 2021)

I can't keep up with all the killer tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just when I am good with 6201, 4033, 455, a2900 (in the BB) ...........ANOTHER great tube.These are all good and I can't hear the slight differences so I am good for now........

MUST resist


----------



## Wes S (Sep 15, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> I can't keep up with all the killer tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just when I am good with 6201, 4033, 455, a2900 (in the BB) ...........ANOTHER great tube.These are all god and I can't hear the slight differences so I am good for now........
> 
> MUST resist


Lucky you and your bank account, if you can't hear the differences.    Also, why resist?  What's wrong with a little variety to keep things fresh?

I often wonder if all the people I have seen buy and then sell a Pendant would have kept the amp if they had heard it with the tubes I am using. . .

Seriously though, I bet this version of RFT can easily hang with your a2900, and it easily best the others as far as being transparent/detailed and impactful.  Since you are familiar with the 6201, the RFT has an even bigger stage, while being better balanced, and after listening to those two back to back, the 6201 sounds artificial with a disjointed stage.

This version of RFT is my proudest tube discovery so far, as it's cheap ($15) and plentiful and smokes my other tubes, some of them costing as much as $200 a piece.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Wes S said:


> Lucky you and your bank account, if you can't hear the differences.
> 
> Seriously though, I bet this version of RFT can easily hang with your a2900, and it easily best the others as far as being transparent/detailed and impactful.  Since you are familiar with the 6201, the RFT has an even bigger stage, while being better balanced, and after listening to those two back to back, the 6201 sounds artificial with a disjointed stage.
> 
> This version of RFT is my proudest tube discovery so far, as it's cheap ($15) and plentiful and smokes my other tubes, some of them costing as much as $200 a piece.


What other tubes are on your Pendant in combination with the RFT?


----------



## Wes S (Sep 15, 2021)

Bassic Needs said:


> What other tubes are on your Pendant in combination with the RFT?


I am running some rare ones for power tubes, which are Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters 56', and for the rectifier I am running a G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 55'.

Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters (earliest version of this tube and not to be confused with the much lesser sounding latter version O Getters).





G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter


----------



## Bassic Needs

Wes S said:


> I am running some rare ones for power tubes, which are Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters 56', and for the rectifier I am running a G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 55'.
> 
> Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters (earliest version of this tube and not to be confused with the much lesser sounding latter version O Getters).
> 
> ...


My Pendant SE with vintage tubes is on order. I am wondering how much benefit installing the RFT input tube alone would provide. 
Personally I am not crazy about the idea of tube rolling and chasing sound quality. I'd be just as happy to start off strong and keep it there.


----------



## nwavesailor

My mother when I was a kid:
 "If Wes S jumped off a bridge (because there were rare tubes at the bottom) would you follow him and jump off too?"


----------



## Wes S (Sep 16, 2021)

Bassic Needs said:


> My Pendant SE with vintage tubes is on order. I am wondering how much benefit installing the RFT input tube alone would provide.
> Personally I am not crazy about the idea of tube rolling and chasing sound quality. I'd be just as happy to start off strong and keep it there.


It's all preference, however some tubes are just flat out better at sounding lifelike like the RFT.  You can take it as far as you want, and I would at least try the RFT at $15, but that's just me.  The idea of tube rolling is to tweak the sound to your liking (bass, mids, treble, stage, detail, tonality, and timbre).  What I like to try to do is get the sound to be as lifelike sounding as possible, as in sounding like you are "there" with the musicians.  You won't know what you like and what pairs well with your other gear, until you try a few different tubes.  It is a rabbit hole for sure, as there are a bunch of good tubes out there (some just flat out better than others), and there are also a bunch of crappy sounding ones as well that many people settle on, and then get a bad feel for the amp.  So, basically there is not a one and done but there are some that are just so well balanced they pair well with many different tubes and are better at sounding lifelike, and those are the ones I have been hunting down and sharing with everyone.  Also, I personally would not have kept this amp or enjoyed it as much if I had not rolled tubes to find my preferred sound (as lifelike as possible).


----------



## Wes S (Sep 16, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> My mother when I was a kid:
> "If Wes S jumped off a bridge (because there were rare tubes at the bottom) would you follow him and jump off too?"


I'd take a parachute and $15, then jump and go buy that RFT when I landed.   Then I would roll it in the amp and be blown away at how transparent and detailed it sounds.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Wes S said:


> It's all preference, however some tubes are just flat out better at sounding lifelike like the RFT.  You can take it as far as you want, and I would at least try the RFT at $15, but that's just me.  The idea of tube rolling is to tweak the sound to your liking (bass, mids, treble, stage, detail, tonality, and timbre).  What I like to try to do is get the sound to be as lifelike sounding as possible, as in sounding like you are "there" with the musicians.  You won't know what you like and what pairs well with your other gear, until you try a few different tubes.  It is a rabbit hole for sure, as there are a bunch of good tubes out there (some just flat out better than others), and there are also a bunch of crappy sounding ones as well that many people settle on, and then get a bad feel for the amp.  So, basically there is not a one and done but there are some that are just so well balanced they pair well with many different tubes and are better at sounding lifelike, and those are the ones I have been hunting down and sharing with everyone.  Also, I personally would not have kept this amp or enjoyed it as much if I had not rolled tubes to find my preferred sound (as lifelike as possible).


I totally get it. My comments weren't a criticism of your tube rolling passion. Quite the opposite. Guys like me are thankful there are scouts like you whose experience we can mooch off of. 
Btw I ordered two RFTs minutes after you made the original post.  Best case I'll love it and have a backup. At that price it was worth rolling the dice.


----------



## Wes S

Bassic Needs said:


> I totally get it. My comments weren't a criticism of your tube rolling passion. Quite the opposite. Guys like me are thankful there are scouts like you whose experience we can mooch off of.
> Btw I ordered two RFTs minutes after you made the original post.  Best case I'll love it and have a backup. At that price it was worth rolling the dice.


Nice!  I am happy to help, and I have learned so much from others posting their past experiences with tubes in other threads and forums, and I just want to pay it forward.  There is a lot of good info out there, but there is also much needed and that's why I am sharing my experiences as well.  I am trying to spark the tube rolling bug in others, as it really can make a difference for the better, and the more people hunting for tubes the better chance of finding some real gems, like the CV455, CV4033, and now the RFT ECC81 Foil Getter.  I have a few tube rolling buddies I have met in other threads that I chat with all the time, and we have been on a quest together this past couple of years to find killer tubes.  It's been a blast experiencing the discoveries together, and helping each other find those special tubes even though we have different amps.  So with that said, I am hoping more Pendant owners will join in on the fun.   

Hi my name is Wes and I am a tube addict.


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> My mother when I was a kid:
> "If Wes S jumped off a bridge (because there were rare tubes at the bottom) would you follow him and jump off too?"


Still a kid?…


----------



## Wes S

My current tube combo, that's been rocking my world.  This combo has this amazing ability to make the headphones seemingly disappear, and the sound fills the entire room.  When listening I forget all about bass, mids, treble etc. . .and I just get totally immersed in the music.  Often I feel like I am on stage or in another space when I stand up and close my eyes while listening, and it's such an amazing experience!

RFT ECC81, Tungsram EL84 and G.E.C. U709


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> My current tube combo, that's been rocking my world.  This combo has this amazing ability to make the headphones seemingly disappear, and the sound fills the entire room.  When listening I forget all about bass, mids, treble etc. . .and I just get totally immersed in the music.  Often I feel like I am on stage or in another space when I stand up and close my eyes while listening, and it's such an amazing experience!
> 
> RFT ECC81, Tungsram EL84 and G.E.C. U709



Is there a 12AU option for the RFT ECC81? Found out while the Mainline technically can support 12T it’s not ideal and I risk damage to the amps transformer. I know you much prefer the T series (the extra gain is nice too) but looking for good 12AU options for now. I feel if I go into the 3k tier I’d be springing for the Sparkos Aries instead.


----------



## jonathan c

hikaru12 said:


> Is there a 12AU option for the RFT ECC81? Found out while the Mainline technically can support 12T it’s not ideal and I risk damage to the amps transformer. I know you much prefer the T series (the extra gain is nice too) but looking for good 12AU options for now. I feel if I go into the 3k tier I’d be springing for the Sparkos Aries instead.


RFT ECC82


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Is there a 12AU option for the RFT ECC81? Found out while the Mainline technically can support 12T it’s not ideal and I risk damage to the amps transformer. I know you much prefer the T series (the extra gain is nice too) but looking for good 12AU options for now. I feel if I go into the 3k tier I’d be springing for the Sparkos Aries instead.


There sure is and I have a pair of them in my RH-5 right now and they are incredible there too.  Here you go.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/265314218674


----------



## Gorillaphant (Sep 17, 2021)

Was trying out my Pendant today on High Z and noticed the occasional small crackling sound on both sides. Is this anything I should be immediately worried about? I normally listen at relatively low volumes and tend to use the Low Z option instead.

I did read some of the comments in this thread about buzzing/humming sounds and I'm guessing that might be it? Is it something that might be helped by switching tubes? 

I can live with the hum/buzz, just don't want to damage my headphones is all.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> Tungsram EL84


Are these by any chance the ones sold by Upscale Audio?


----------



## Wes S (Sep 18, 2021)

robo24 said:


> Are these by any chance the ones sold by Upscale Audio?


No, the one's I am using are the first version from mid 50's, and Upscale is selling the latest version from the late 60's to 70's.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 18, 2021)

@robo24 Just for reference I have compared the later version Tungsram's to the earlier version and they don't sound anything alike.  The earliest version is very neutral and natural/organic sounding, with really tight bass and amazing detail, and the later is much warmer with bloated bass and less detail, and just does not have the organic quality of the earliest version.  Don't get me wrong the Tungsram's from Upscale sound good, until you compare them to the earliest version and then it's no contest.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My new toy arrived today!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> @robo24 Just for reference I have compared the later version Tungsram's to the earlier version and they don't sound anything alike.  The earliest version is very neutral and natural/organic sounding, with really tight bass and amazing detail, and the later is much warmer with bloated bass and less detail, and just does not have the organic quality of the earliest version.  Don't get me wrong the Tungsram's from Upscale sound good, until you compare them to the earliest version and then it's no contest.


I'm currently running a set of Tungsram from Upscale audio.  I enjoy them.  I would have to agree with @Wes S about the bass being a little bloated.  They may have less detail than the earlier version, I can't attest to that because I don't have an earlier version, however I find the version I have to be very detailed and quite enjoyable.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'm currently running a set of Tungsram from Upscale audio.  I enjoy them.  I would have to agree with @Wes S about the bass being a little bloated.  They may have less detail than the earlier version, I can't attest to that because I don't have an earlier version, however I find the version I have to be very detailed and quite enjoyable.


If you like those, then you would love the earlier version.  I found mine for $30 - $40 a pair.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> My new toy arrived today!


Stunners!  What an amazing example of Bocote! I love the aged copper too!  Congrats!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> If you like those, then you would love the earlier version.  I found mine for $30 - $40 a pair.


That's a lot cheaper than I was expecting!  I'll have to look.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> That's a lot cheaper than I was expecting!  I'll have to look.


It's crazy how cheap the early Tungsram's and RFT's go for, and I love it as they have become my 2 favorite brands.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The new Auteurs play very well with the Brimar Footscray.  The low level hum I get on HighZ with the VC is not present on the Auteurs.


----------



## robo24 (Sep 29, 2021)

Some stainless screw updates. I prefer the black visually, but even 316 stainless will rust where I live so replaced them all  with 316 or 18-8 before they got too rusty. (I'd looked at titanium screws, but they're a fortune.) In some ways now it actually matches better with the silver metal iESL and TT2 I have just under the Pendant. I doubt this would be an issue in areas which aren't both humid and full of salt air.

Someone once dumped a car at the cliffs 1/3 mile down the street about 50' from the ocean and the thing completely disappeared over time. It was down to the engine block for a few years but even that totally disintegrated!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Just put the RFT 12at7 in.  It's a little noisy right now, but will probably settle down after a few hours.  My Brimar was too at first, but isn't any more.  Sounds pretty good right out of the shoot.  I'll give it a few days.  I have it paired with a set of Telefunkin EL84 and an Amperex/Mullard EZ81 Blackburn.  Don't remember the years off the top of my head.  The Tele's I believe are early 60's and Amperex is a 58' I think.  I'd have to look it up.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Got my WA33 about a week ago as an upgrade to my Pendant SE. It's definitely a big step up compared to the Pendant, which is expected given the price difference. Stage is  much bigger, the level of realist is breathtaking in my system (HQPlayer + May KTE + WA33).

I'm still a big fan of the Pendant and I love pairing it with the VC and Utopia. Unfortunately, I can't justify keeping both so I'm selling my Pendant SE with my all my tube sets. Good opportunity for those in the UK to get it without dealing with the wait and custom fees.


----------



## Bassic Needs (Sep 27, 2021)

Ordered my Pendant SE with vintage tubes on 9/3/21, got shipping notice on 9/24/21, received today. I received the Olive Burl finish which will match my Olive Wood VC's nicely.







I was wondering if you all can help me name these tubes?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> It's crazy how cheap the early Tungsram's and RFT's go for, and I love it as they have become my 2 favorite brands.


While I have Mullard EZ81s (for the Woo WA2), I could not pass on these given the greatness of the RFT ECC81 and of the RFT ECC82. Same seller in Ukraine:


----------



## Wes S (Sep 28, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> While I have Mullard EZ81s (for the Woo WA2), I could not pass on these given the greatness of the RFT ECC81 and of the RFT ECC82. Same seller in Ukraine:


Nice, I have been there and done that, and can confirm the RFT magic is in the EZ81 as well.  I have the earliest version labeled Funkwerk Erfurt with welded plates and foil getter.

Here is a full set of Funwerk Erfurt Foil Getters (earliest version of RFT) for the Pendant, and this is the most neutral combo I have tried so far.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 28, 2021)

Bassic Needs said:


> Ordered my Pendant SE with vintage tubes on 9/3/21, got shipping notice on 9/24/21, received today. I received the Olive Burl finish which will match my Olive Wood VC's nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering if you all can help me name these tubes?


Welcome to the club! 

Looks like you got a Sylvania Grey Plate on the left and a RCA Black Plate on the right.  Those look to be mid 60's - 70's, based on construction with the O Getter.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Newbie questions and impressions. This is my first actual tube amp, as I dont count the Schiit Lyr 3 and Vali 2 hybrids I've owned.

No documentation is provided with this amp. No serial numbers, model numbers, or manufacturer codes or dates are seen anywhere. 

The ZMF pelican travel case is great and it's really nice it's included.

I'm happy to report with Verite Closed headphones,  I'm hearing no hum on either low Z or High Z taps, with any of the tube combinations I have.

With one input tube (the RCA) I did hear some pops and cracks in the right channel.

With the VC, I was surprised to find the low Z tap is lower volume than the high Z tap. Like, for Low Z, 5 or 6 clicks on the volume dial is the same SPL as 3 clicks on High Z. Why is that?

With the VC on High Z, there is not much usable volume range, with either 12AU7 or 12AX7 tubes. Starting at 6 o clock, about 9 is as high as I'd want to go. Right now I'm listening at 3 clicks (about 7 to 8 o' clock).  It would be nice if the first click was quieter than what it is: it's just slightly quieter than my average listening volume. Which means I need to control the volume from my source device if I want truly low volume listening.


When I am wearing the headphones,  if I plug or unplug the headphones from the Pendant,  I hear a moderate chime or ringing sound - much louder than expected. Should the amp be turned off, or volume wheel at 0, when plugging or unplugging the headphones?

Can this amp run two headphones from the Low and High Z taps simultaneously?


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> It's crazy how cheap the early Tungsram's and RFT's go for, and I love it as they have become my 2 favorite brands.


Loving the RFTs in my Mainline as well. What an amazing find Wes!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Awesome to see Wes spreading the wealth with the rft funkwerk tubes. The most underrated tubes on the planet lol. I truly believe if people had a better understanding of their history. They wouldn't be so overlooked. A blessing for us I suppose because they're dirt cheap in comparison to......... well you know 😏


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 2, 2021)

Great that there are some cheap giant killers out there.

Too bad I got caught up and bought too many of the 'greatest' tubes along the way costing hundreds per pair. I still do really like the Valvo 6201, GEC A-2900 Brimar CV4033 and Raytheon 7728/7730 and some others.

Wes is great at trying and finding a LOT of tubes. He  then wisely sells off yesterdays hot offerings, usually at a bargain price, where I keep all that I have bought.

Gotta learn to sell off some tubes!


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Loving the RFTs in my Mainline as well. What an amazing find Wes!


Glad they worked out for you!  They truly are something special.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 2, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> Great that there are some cheap giant killers out there.
> 
> Too bad I got caught up and bought too many of the 'greatest' tubes along the way costing hundreds per pair. I still do really like the Valvo 6201, GEC A-2900 Brimar CV4033 and Raytheon 7728/7730 and some others.
> 
> ...


A little insider tip, once you hear the RFT, it makes it very easy to sell off all your other tubes.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Awesome to see Wes spreading the wealth with the rft funkwerk tubes. The most underrated tubes on the planet lol. I truly believe if people had a better understanding of their history. They wouldn't be so overlooked. A blessing for us I suppose because they're dirt cheap in comparison to......... well you know 😏


Yes sir!  I think the cat is most definitely out of the bag, as the stocks are quickly being depleted. . .   I have seen over 15 of them get sold in the last 24 hours. . .


----------



## nwavesailor

Just snagged the foil getter RFT!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Just snagged the foil getter RFT!


Nice man!  I am rocking with mine right now, and loving every second.  I can't wait to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 2, 2021)

The RFT ECC81 foil getter is magic!  In the past I liked a different input tube with Atticus and VC, but with the RFT's aka. Funkwerk Erfurt's both headphones sound ridiculously perfect, and you can easily hear what they both excel at.  This tube is so transparent you really hear everything, and paired up with some transparent power tubes, it's the most lifelike sound I have heard yet. 

Listening to this and Jeff is right there . . .What an awesome experience!   

.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just took out my 55's and put in the 60's(same ones Billy bought). About an hour in and man the transparency is ridiculous! Long way to go for burn in but right out of the box I know these are going to be fantastic!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Just took out my 55's and put in the 60's(same ones Billy bought). About an hour in and man the transparency is ridiculous! Long way to go for burn in but right out of the box I know these are going to be fantastic!


Nice bro!  The 60's version with dual getter post seem to have more pop, and speed, with better detail and a bigger stage.  I have actually been swapping back and forth for the past 3 days between the 50's single getter post and 60's dual getter post, and have come to that conclusion, and actually prefer the 60's dual getter post.  Seems that the earlier the better scenario, is not actually the case with the RFT's . . .


----------



## galileaux

I mentioned a while ago that I was hearing crackling/hiss noises via the Pendant SE - but figured I’d expand on my experience dealing with that a bit.

When I first received it, I could hear a very loud crackling noise, a very distinct electromagnetic interference type of hiss. I found the source pretty quickly - I was running an Ethernet Powerline to feed my Hugo 2+2Go set up (I’m in an apartment in NYC and that was the only way to get reliable internet on the 2Go. The Wi-Fi connection on it has always been terrible here). To remedy the issue I moved the Powerline to the adjacent room, and threaded the cable through the window. It was an immediate improvement, the sound was completely gone when listening to low-sensitivity headphones (Arya, as an example), but still there (faintly) on high-sensitivity cans. The problem is that I got the Pendant to specifically pair with my Verite Closed, and they were the cans in which I could hear the noise the most.

This week I decided to switch out my Hugo 2+2Go for my Bifrost 2 paired with a Raspberry Pi streamer, which has a much better Wi-Fi connection. With this I could remove the Powerline altogether, and the noise is completely gone. With this pairing I could also hear more detail, a more dynamic presentation, wider soundstage, more clear separation of instruments, and the experience has overall been mind-blowing really! Not saying that the Bifrost is a better DAC than the Hugo 2, but the simple fact I had clean(er) power feeding the Pendant made such an impact that I realized I was missing a lot before. The improvement is present on the Arya as well, so it’s not necessarily just the absence of the hiss. It seems more was being lost/drowned out by the interference present in the mains. 

While some of these differences are definitely due to the different DAC, the clarity and detail retrieval shouldn’t have improved so much (in my experience).

Now I wonder if there’s more room for improvement with a Power Regenerator, or some other form of filtering. I want to try something like the iFi SuperNova cable next!


----------



## gibby

It’s my first time taking a peak in this thread.  My wallet is scared.


----------



## jonathan c

gibby said:


> It’s my first time taking a peak in this thread.  My wallet is scared.


As FDR might have said, your wallet has nothing to fear but fear itself….😱….(the spending is painless, it’s the aftermath that is the issue…🤔🤪😳…)


----------



## Wes S (Oct 11, 2021)

gibby said:


> It’s my first time taking a peak in this thread.  My wallet is scared.


LOL!  I think I might be to blame for some of that fear, with all my past tube talk posts.  However, rest assured some of the best tubes (RFT & Tungsram) I have heard in the Pendant, are also the very affordable.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 11, 2021)

So, I just hit the 6 month mark of owning/getting to know my Pendant SE, and I have learned quite a bit about the amp, and the tubes it uses.  First thing, the stock JJ's don't do the amp justice.  Second thing, you don't have to buy the most expensive and rare tubes out there to make this amp truly sing.  I have learned that I prefer neutral or balanced sounding tubes, vs. some of the more popular tubes with flavor.  The Pendant has such good balance top to bottom, that it does not need any kind of help from a tube with flavor, and by flavor I mean a tube that accentuates certain parts of the frequency response more than others.  Once you roll in some well balanced NOS or Old Stock tubes, the amp really opens up and becomes very natural and lifelike sounding, and it's pure musical bliss.

Justin and Zach have really created something special with this amp, and  I absolutely love it!  I am so enamored that I am happy to call it my "Endgame" for the foreseeable future.

Back to musical bliss . . .


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I think I might be to blame for some of that fear, with all my past tube talk posts.  However, rest assured some of the best tubes (RFT & Tungsram) I have heard in the Pendant, are also the very affordable.


Just ordered two more RFT’s for back up lol. I love that tube.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Just ordered two more RFT’s for back up lol. I love that tube.


Smart move!  I have backups for my backups, with RFT in ECC81 and ECC82.  This tube is phenomenal, and I absolutely love them in my other amp (Rogue RH-5) as well.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Smart move!  I have backups for my backups, with RFT in ECC81 and ECC82.  This tube is phenomenal, and I absolutely love them in my other amp (Rogue RH-5) as well.


‘Backup for backup’ is THE justifiable response to insidious allegations of ‘hoarding’….hey, @bcowen over there! pay attention!…


----------



## nwavesailor

This is a question for our STW (Senior Tube Wizard)  Wes S:

Is the best RFT ECC82 also a foil getter version?

 I'm not sure that I have read the comparison of the RFT ECC82 (12AU7) and ECC81 (12AT7). 
 Other than gain, is there a differences in SQ and do you go back and forth between these 2 tubes or stay with one?


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> This is a question for our STW (Senior Tube Wizard)  Wes S:
> 
> Is the best RFT ECC82 also a foil getter version?
> 
> ...


Good questions!

The Foil Getter is where it's at, and is my preferred version.

As far as the ECC81 vs ECC82 in the Pendant, due to the gain differences the ECC81 has more pop, and a bit better dynamics, and as a result just seems more lifelike sounding.  The ECC82 is a bit more diffused and relaxed sounding with the same overall sound, but is just not as engaging.  As a result, I only use the ECC81 Foil Getter in my Pendant.  However, I do use the ECC82 Foil Getters in my RH-5, and they do sound fantastic and very dynamic in that amp.  The RH-5 can't take the ECC81 or I would probably still prefer that version in this amp as well, but I can't be sure without actually hearing them.  So, I say if the amp can handle the higher gain, then the ECC81 is the one to go for.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks, @Wes S 

That's one less tube that I 'need' to buy!!!!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, @Wes S
> 
> That's one less tube that I 'need' to buy!!!!


No prob man!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

What about the RFT ez81 rectifier?  Any experience with those?


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> What about the RFT ez81 rectifier?  Any experience with those?


Yes sir.  I have the Foil Getter version , and it's dead neutral with a huge stage.  I have found that the RFT Foil Getter "House Sound" applies to the ECC81/82, EL84 and EZ81.  I still prefer the G.E.C. U709 over the RFT and Tungsram EZ81 Foil Getters, but they are nice alternatives, that usually sell for a lot less if you can find one.


----------



## NickMimi

galileaux said:


> I mentioned a while ago that I was hearing crackling/hiss noises via the Pendant SE - but figured I’d expand on my experience dealing with that a bit.
> 
> When I first received it, I could hear a very loud crackling noise, a very distinct electromagnetic interference type of hiss. I found the source pretty quickly - I was running an Ethernet Powerline to feed my Hugo 2+2Go set up (I’m in an apartment in NYC and that was the only way to get reliable internet on the 2Go. The Wi-Fi connection on it has always been terrible here). To remedy the issue I moved the Powerline to the adjacent room, and threaded the cable through the window. It was an immediate improvement, the sound was completely gone when listening to low-sensitivity headphones (Arya, as an example), but still there (faintly) on high-sensitivity cans. The problem is that I got the Pendant to specifically pair with my Verite Closed, and they were the cans in which I could hear the noise the most.
> 
> ...


I have several DAC’s, my “best/most expensive” is an Exogal Comet. With that DAC the Pendant picks up the internal noise the computer in the DAC makes. The Pendant or at least some of them can be super sensitive to RF interference. I also have to keep my phones at least 5 feet away and i have to use a good DDC in line w/ my usb when i feed it off my computer or it will pick up the interference my laptop produces. i also need to be VERY picky about which USB cables i use, some transfer more noise than others to it.

 I became aware of these issues early on and rather than sell off the amplifier i decided to experiment and see what would happen under different circumstances. That was a very worthwhile move on my part because my Pendant has rewarded me much over for my patience. When i remove the RF noise inducers the amplifier rewards you with stupidly good sound AND it is a joy to tube roll. It rewards you with slight variations in the tubes that can be heard and enjoyed clearly. You don’t have to second guess on what the improvemnts or simply changes the tube roll is making. One of the things people don’t report enough is that this amplifier is a tube rollers delight. My amplifier can show an extremely low noise floor when i have done my part and mated particular tubes to it on an RF noise free chain. Also, the amp seems to have a very good amount of power. On my more power hungry headphones i have good range of volume on the knob. It does a very OK job pushing my HE6se, not as good as my dedicated speaker amp but good enough for me to enjoy at least 75%of what the HP is capable of (in my rough estimation based on my experience w/ much higher power & dollar amps used on the HE6se) 
Lastly, it works well as a pre-amp in a few of my set-up‘s providing even more value. For less than $3k thats allot of value and quality. Keep trying different strategies, the amp absolutely is capable, it hates RF interference though


----------



## bcowen (Oct 11, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ‘Backup for backup’ is THE justifiable response to insidious allegations of ‘hoarding’….hey, @bcowen over there! pay attention!…


Huh?  Totally unfair accusatory inference.  I only have a few.     Tubs.


----------



## nwavesailor

bcowen said:


> Huh?  Totally unfair accusatory inference.  I only have a few.     Tubs.


Uh.............you MAY be in control but if not, 2 words.............12 Step!


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Huh?  Totally unfair accusatory inference.  I only have a few.     Tubs.


Tubes….🤪


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, @Wes S
> 
> That's one less tube that I 'need' to buy!!!!


The only time that there is “one less tube that I ‘need’ to buy” is after my purchase of that tube…😜🤪🤷🏻…


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Uh.............you MAY be in control but if not, 2 words.............12 Step!


…Step One:  We admitted that we were powerless over tubes - that our lives had become unmanageable.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …Step One:  We admitted that we were powerless over tubes - that our lives had become unmanageable.


Step Two: Don't stress over Step One, just buy whatever tubes @Wes S recommends (and some that are similar, or sort of) even if you have no components that can use them.


----------



## Wes S

NickMimi said:


> I have several DAC’s, my “best/most expensive” is an Exogal Comet. With that DAC the Pendant picks up the internal noise the computer in the DAC makes. The Pendant or at least some of them can be super sensitive to RF interference. I also have to keep my phones at least 5 feet away and i have to use a good DDC in line w/ my usb when i feed it off my computer or it will pick up the interference my laptop produces. i also need to be VERY picky about which USB cables i use, some transfer more noise than others to it.
> 
> I became aware of these issues early on and rather than sell off the amplifier i decided to experiment and see what would happen under different circumstances. That was a very worthwhile move on my part because my Pendant has rewarded me much over for my patience. When i remove the RF noise inducers the amplifier rewards you with stupidly good sound AND it is a joy to tube roll. It rewards you with slight variations in the tubes that can be heard and enjoyed clearly. You don’t have to second guess on what the improvemnts or simply changes the tube roll is making. One of the things people don’t report enough is that this amplifier is a tube rollers delight. My amplifier can show an extremely low noise floor when i have done my part and mated particular tubes to it on an RF noise free chain. Also, the amp seems to have a very good amount of power. On my more power hungry headphones i have good range of volume on the knob. It does a very OK job pushing my HE6se, not as good as my dedicated speaker amp but good enough for me to enjoy at least 75%of what the HP is capable of (in my rough estimation based on my experience w/ much higher power & dollar amps used on the HE6se)
> Lastly, it works well as a pre-amp in a few of my set-up‘s providing even more value. For less than $3k thats allot of value and quality. Keep trying different strategies, the amp absolutely is capable, it hates RF interference though


Amen and I totally agree about tube rolling with this amp. (See post #591)


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Huh?  Totally unfair accusatory inference.  I only have a few.     Tubs.


Wow! A ton of tubes and well organized at that.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 13, 2021)

So, now that the cat is most definitely out of the bag with the RFT ECC81 Folded Plate Foil Disc Getter, I feel it's time to share a little more info about this tube.  

Over the years this tube has evolved in construction and they also vary slightly in sound.  The earlier they were made, the warmer and more bass and mid focused they sound.  I have some from 54' all the way to the late 60's.  Basically, this tube started out with the labeling of Funwerk Erfurt and several versions latter they started having the RFT logo with the crossed swords.  As far as construction, the differences in the shape of the glass bottle is the most notable change, followed by the getter and getter support.  The earliest version (54') has the most rounded top on the glass bottle, and a single getter support rod with a perfectly round shaped foil disc getter, and as you get latter in production the top of the glass bottle becomes more square and the getter post becomes a double, and the foil disc getter becomes more oval with a crease in it.

Here is a pic that shows the evolution of the glass bottle with the Funwerk Erfurt ECC81 otherwise known as RFT.

Left to right - 54', 57', 58', and early 60's


----------



## nwavesailor

NICE! 
I should have mine any day now!
While more bass is always welcome, I am not looking for a warmer tube so I will likely not be searching for the 50's version. 
Thanks, Wes!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I have a RFT funkwerk ecc83 (12ax7) on the way. I didn’t pay attention when ordering the backup ecc81’s. They aren’t the foil getter, they are newer halo getter.  They still sound nice, particularly with my Auteur for some reason.  Definitely not the foil getter though. Although, my foil getter has a hum in the left channel that just doesn’t want to go away. The halo getter is very quiet.


----------



## nwavesailor

My RFT have been sitting in NY for the past 9 days. 
I guess the new even lower level of USPS 'service' is for real!


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> My RFT have been sitting in NY for the past 9 days.
> I guess the new even lower level of USPS 'service' is for real!


Billy apparently lost his first pair. They hit NY and never moved. 
This seller has 7 foil getters left. I bought a pair and Billy bought a pair. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC81-RFT-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0


----------



## Wes S

Speaking of USPS, I actually have not had a single package lost, but they have been all over the place with the delivery time frame.  I have had some take less than a week to arrive and others 2.5 months, but I eventually got them all.  It really is a crap shoot right now, and doesn't appear to be getting any better. . .

Nice find Sam on those ECC81 Foil Getters!


----------



## Hiker816

Has anyone tried RFT EL84/6BQ5 power tubes?  Any good?  Any recommendations on what vintage to get or avoid?  Thanks!


----------



## steve468

I just got a pair of 60's RFT EL84, with halo getters. I honestly don't know if RFT made disc getter EL84s, I haven't seen any. In my brief experience, they are in line with the halo getters in other tube types: detailed, clear, fairly tight bass, but a fair bit brighter than other EL84s. I think they're actually a great match with a RFT ecc81 disc getter in the Pendant feeding VCs.


----------



## Wes S

steve468 said:


> I just got a pair of 60's RFT EL84, with halo getters. I honestly don't know if RFT made disc getter EL84s, I haven't seen any. In my brief experience, they are in line with the halo getters in other tube types: detailed, clear, fairly tight bass, but a fair bit brighter than other EL84s. I think they're actually a great match with a RFT ecc81 disc getter in the Pendant feeding VCs.


Did someone say RFT EL84 with Disc Getters?

I have a pair, and they have the same house sound as the ECC81.  

Here is a full set of Funkwerk (RFT) Foil Getters.  As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, this is the most neutral tube combo I have tried in my Pendant SE.


----------



## Wes S

Hiker816 said:


> Has anyone tried RFT EL84/6BQ5 power tubes?  Any good?  Any recommendations on what vintage to get or avoid?  Thanks!


Look for Foil Getters and welded plates, which would be late 50's to early 60's.  They sound just like the ECC81 Foil Getters, so yes they are killer.


----------



## steve468

I just knew someone would come along and correct my RFT ignorance. Honestly, how do you find these things? My wife already complains I spend too much time and money searching for tubes.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I have been enjoying the ecc81 disc getter; having a more neutral setup in the Pendant seems to play to it's strengths (depending on the headphones I'm using).


----------



## Wes S

steve468 said:


> I just knew someone would come along and correct my RFT ignorance. Honestly, how do you find these things? My wife already complains I spend too much time and money searching for tubes.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the info. I have been enjoying the ecc81 disc getter; having a more neutral setup in the Pendant seems to play to it's strengths (depending on the headphones I'm using).


No problem, and always happy to help! As far as finding them, I am always on the hunt when I am awake.  I have a ton of saved searches on ebay, and constantly check and search throughout the day online.   I am obsessed with tubes and constantly study pictures of them so I know what to look for, and just can't get enough.  

You have made a great point about having a more neutral setup playing to the strengths of the Pendant.  I actually started out rolling all my "flavor" tubes in the begining and thought they were the bees knees, until I are starting rolling more neutral tubes.  I have learned that I prefer the quickest and most neutral tubes I can find, and it really does play to the strengths of the Pendant, and takes things to another level.  The Pendant with some neutral tubes in it like the RFT's, really sounds like the best of both the SS and Tube worlds combined, and paired up the VC is an incredible experience.


----------



## Hiker816

Wes S said:


> Look for Foil Getters and welded plates, which would be late 50's to early 60's.  They sound just like the ECC81 Foil Getters, so yes they are killer.


Thanks, Wes!  Should have known you'd have a photo at the ready.  Thanks to you, too, steve468.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Another tube I MUST look for..... thanks guys....  When I entered the tube world, I didn't fully realize what I was getting into!  I didn't know the cost of the amp was going to be the least expensive part of owning a tube amp LOL


----------



## jonathan c

steve468 said:


> I just knew someone would come along and correct my RFT ignorance. Honestly, how do you find these things? My wife already complains I spend too much time and money searching for tubes.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the info. I have been enjoying the ecc81 disc getter; having a more neutral setup in the Pendant seems to play to it's strengths (depending on the headphones I'm using).


Wife should be happy: tubes =/= pornography


----------



## steve468

jonathan c said:


> Wife should be happy: tubes =/= pornography


I don’t know, she might have an easier time understanding pornography. She finds my tube obsession (mild compared to some!) to be disconcertingly weird.


----------



## nwavesailor




----------



## bcowen

steve468 said:


> I don’t know, she might have an easier time understanding pornography. She finds my tube obsession (mild compared to some!) to be disconcertingly weird.


Ask her how many pairs of shoes she has.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Ask her how many pairs of shoes she has.


She buys tongue-soles, you buy Tung Sols…😖😜…


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> She buys tongue-soles, you buy Tung Sols…😖😜…


😂😂😂


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I put the RFT ecc81 foil getter back in.  Wow, really no comparison to the halo getter.  Soooo much better.  Really wish I had paid attention and ordered the right tubes


----------



## nwavesailor

DOAH!!!

Sure hope mine eventually get through NY customs and heading my way!


----------



## robo24

I put one of my RFT ECC82 foil getters in my tiny old Bravo tube amp. While I get a hum with it that I don't get with the Pendant, it's shockingly good, especially for the price.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

robo24 said:


> I put one of my RFT ECC82 foil getters in my tiny old Bravo tube amp. While I get a hum with it that I don't get with the Pendant, it's shockingly good, especially for the price.


I get a hum in the left channel of the Pendant with the foil getter.  It annoys the @#$% out of me at low volume, but tolerable at higher volume.  Really wish it would go away! I mostly listen at low volume.  I didn't have any hang up in NY on either of my orders.  Good luck!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 23, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I get a hum in the left channel of the Pendant with the foil getter.  It annoys the @#$% out of me at low volume, but tolerable at higher volume.  Really wish it would go away! I mostly listen at low volume.  I didn't have any hang up in NY on either of my orders.  Good luck!


Bummer about the noisy tube, and I had to cycle through several myself before I found a few that were dead silent (I always buy tubes with a return policy).  The Pendant really lets you know when you have a noisy tube, and once you find a really quiet one and hear what it can do, it is stunning how much information/detail gets masked by the noisy tube.  Once you find a quiet tube, it really takes things to another level, and I hope that tube settles down for you!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Bummer about the noisy tube, and I had to cycle through several myself before I found a few that were dead silent (I always buy tubes with a return policy).  The Pendant really lets you know when you have a noisy tube, and once you find a really quiet one and hear what it can do, it is stunning how much information/detail gets masked by the noisy tube.  Once you find a quiet tube, it really takes things to another level, and I hope that tube settles down for you!


It's not as bad as it first was, so there's hope.  I only have maybe 20 hours on it.  Not really worth sending a $15 tube back to the Ukrain from the US.  The Funkwerk will be here probably in about a week.  Maybe that will be better.  Based on your pictures, it looks to be the shape of the 58'


----------



## Wes S (Oct 24, 2021)

I often notice Justin from AmpsandSound using Sylvania Black plates in his amps, and I decided to give some EL84's and a 6201 GB a try and rolled them in this morning. . . and now I see why he like these tubes so much.    One thing of note is how silent these Sylvania tubes are, and my Atticus sounds killer with them right now!  I was a huge fan of Sylvania tubes when I had my Bottlehead Crack, and they always have such great balance top to bottom and top notch construction.

The all black plate tube roll for today is -

Input - Sylvania 6201 Black Plate O Getter
Power - Sylvania EL84 Black Plate O Getters
Rectifier - G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> Power - Sylvania EL84 Black Plate O Getters


Pretty sure those are what came with my NOS tube set with the Pendant. The little blue tip is also appealing.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 24, 2021)

robo24 said:


> Pretty sure those are what came with my NOS tube set with the Pendant. The little blue tip is also appealing.


Same here, and I just now finally tried them out and I am loving them.  They are detailed, and spacious sounding, and have a bit of warmth that gives weight to the notes with great bass punch.  I am using a CBS 7729 Long Plate O Getter as the input tube, along with the G.E.C. U709 as the rectifier and this combo is dynamite.   I really like this combo with Folk and Bluegrass, paired up with my Atticus.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Same here, and I just now finally tried them out and I am loving them.  They are detailed, and spacious sounding, and have a bit of warmth that gives weight to the notes with great bass punch.  I am using a CBS 7729 Long Plate O Getter as the input tube, along with the G.E.C. U709 as the rectifier and this combo is dynamite.   I really like this combo with Folk and Bluegrass, paired up with my Atticus.


Be it Pendant, RH-5, LTA MZ3, Woo WA2, Woo WA6…tube rolling is educational & fun…
wonderful combinations to encounter…first time / reunion…like traveling cross-country…a few potholes, but many stunning vistas…


----------



## Wes S (Oct 25, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Be it Pendant, RH-5, LTA MZ3, Woo WA2, Woo WA6…tube rolling is educational & fun…
> wonderful combinations to encounter…first time / reunion…like traveling cross-country…a few potholes, but many stunning vistas…


I hear ya man!  The beauty of the Pendant SE is the insane amount of different tube combos that are possible.  I have been rolling pretty much non stop for the last 6 months of owning this amp, and I am still discovering new combos.  The variety within the EL84 tube family for the power tubes is incredible and the 12A_7 family of input tubes is loaded with a bunch of different options as well.  As for the rectifier, there are quite a few options for that one too, but for me it's a one and done with the G.E.C. U709.  The Pendant SE can really keep a tube rolling addict content, and it's a blast trying new tubes looking for that special synergy or to fit my mood.


----------



## Wes S

Rolled back in some Funwerk EL84 Foil Getters, with a Funwerk ECC83 Foil Getter, and the G.E.C. U709, and this combo is it for transparency, speed, dynamics, and soundstage expansion.  Sometimes a warm and inviting sound is nice (Sylvania), and other times it's nice to just be "there" (Funkwerk/RFT).


----------



## Wes S

For those that have been using the RFT ECC81 Foil Getter, I am happy to report the RFT ECC83 Foil Getter has the same exact sound with a bit more pop and stronger dynamics.  I have been avoiding the ECC83/12AX7 family of tubes thinking that they would just be too noisy due to the extra gain, but I am happy to report that is not the case at all, and I think I might even prefer the extra bit of punch and dynamics I am getting.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> For those that have been using the RFT ECC81 Foil Getter, I am happy to report the RFT ECC83 Foil Getter has the same exact sound with a bit more pop and stronger dynamics.  I have been avoiding the ECC83/12AX7 family of tubes thinking that they would just be too noisy due to the extra gain, but I am happy to report that is not the case at all, and I think I might even prefer the extra bit of punch and dynamics I am getting.


May have to grab a pair and see how they play in the MJ2 lol


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Rolled back in some Funwerk EL84 Foil Getters, with a Funwerk ECC83 Foil Getter, and the G.E.C. U709, and this combo is it for transparency, speed, dynamics, and soundstage expansion.  Sometimes a warm and inviting sound is nice (Sylvania), and other times it's nice to just be "there" (Funkwerk/RFT).


I like the name Funkwerk…😜


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I hear ya man!  The beauty of the Pendant SE is the insane amount of different tube combos that are possible.  I have been rolling pretty much non stop for the last 6 months of owning this amp, and I am still discovering new combos.  The variety within the EL84 tube family for the power tubes is incredible and the 12A_7 family of input tubes is loaded with a bunch of different options as well.  As for the rectifier, there are quite a few options for that one too, but for me it's a one and done with the G.E.C. U709.  The Pendant SE can really keep a tube rolling addict content, and it's a blast trying new tubes looking for that special synergy or to fit my mood.


I agree with the “one and done” approach for the rectifier - it is the base for all that follows…literally and electrically…


----------



## Hiker816

The mention of the NOS tubes that come with the Pendant reminded me of a question:  What's the verdict on whether the vintage tubes curated by ZMF/ampsandsound (which appear to be RFT, Baldwin, and Tungsram right now) are worth the $200 upcharge?  Thanks!


----------



## steve468

Hiker816 said:


> The mention of the NOS tubes that come with the Pendant reminded me of a question:  What's the verdict on whether the vintage tubes curated by ZMF/ampsandsound (which appear to be RFT, Baldwin, and Tungsram right now) are worth the $200 upcharge?  Thanks


Knowing what I know now, I probably could have found the same tubes for a bit less given infinite time to search, and some luck. I was lucky enough to get yellow-tipped made-in-Japan Baldwin EL84s, and I have not seen another pair like that. If the current selection is Sylvania, those are pretty common and cheap. But, they are great tubes and an excellent upgrade from stock. They show off a completely different side of the Pendant; stock JJs are bright-ish, etchy, solid state-sounding; ZMF's NOS are smooth, richer and "tubier."


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 26, 2021)

Wes S said:


> For those that have been using the RFT ECC81 Foil Getter, I am happy to report the RFT ECC83 Foil Getter has the same exact sound with a bit more pop and stronger dynamics.  I have been avoiding the ECC83/12AX7 family of tubes thinking that they would just be too noisy due to the extra gain, but I am happy to report that is not the case at all, and I think I might even prefer the extra bit of punch and dynamics I am getting.


Since my RTF ECC81 foil getter seem stuck in NY, I am now looking for RFT or Funwerk ECC83 foil getters. I found plenty of halo and a few 'solid' getters but no foil yet................

EDIT: I snagged a Funkwert ECC83 from 1958 (?) production with the 'solid' getter and hope solid is indeed the foil version.

 I'm pretty sure my ECC81 RFT's will now magically find their way from their extended time in NY and make their way into my mailbox!!!

_EDIT #2 Just got an update from USPS that my RFT ECC82 foil geters have escaped from NY after 15 day and are now at least in my state!!!  
Buying the Funwerk ECC83 did the trick and I will now have the 12AT7 and 12AX7._


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Since my RTF ECC81 foil getter seem stuck in NY, I am now looking for RFT or Funwerk ECC83 foil getters. I found plenty of halo and a few 'solid' getters but no foil yet................
> 
> EDIT: I snagged a Funkwert ECC83 from 1958 (?) production with the 'solid' getter and hope solid is indeed the foil version.
> 
> ...


Nice!  I am actually running a Funwerk ECC83 from 58' with the single getter arm and it's got the foil getter (I could see it being called solid).  USPS might take a long time, but all my packages have eventually been delivered.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 26, 2021)

So, I rolled back in the Sylvania 6BQ5 Black Plates, and I am really really digging them.  I currently have them paired up with a Funwerk ECC83 Foil Getter 58', and combined with the Sylvania I am getting the best of both worlds from these 2 very different sounding tube brands.  The Sylvania's have excellent bass with head bobbing PRAT and the vocals and instruments are intimate and lifelike, then combine all that with the expansive, fast and highly detailed Funwerk ECC83, and the sound has just the right amount of warmth and detail with a killer holographic stage.  The Sylvania 6BQ5 Black Plates are a fantastic power tube and really play well to the strengths of the Pendant, so they get an easy recommendation from me.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 26, 2021)

Hiker816 said:


> The mention of the NOS tubes that come with the Pendant reminded me of a question:  What's the verdict on whether the vintage tubes curated by ZMF/ampsandsound (which appear to be RFT, Baldwin, and Tungsram right now) are worth the $200 upcharge?  Thanks!


My thoughts on this are that if you are new to tubes, or just don't want to take a gamble on finding quiet and good testing tubes on ebay, then the $200 upcharge is worth it.  I could easily source those same tubes for a bit cheaper, but I also would not have the guarantee they will actually test good and be quiet ( I trust ZMF more than any tube dealer out there).  Assuming ZMF is checking for noise in a Pendant before shipping the tubes, that alone is worth some extra money right there.  So, with that said I could see the NOS tube set from ZMF being a great choice, but it's also a bit of a gamble not knowing what tubes you will actually get.  I will say having a quiet set of tubes is a revelation with the Pendant, and starting out with a quiet set could be a big plus while getting a feel for the amps sound.  I am not sure if ZMF does this, but it would be cool if you could pick the brand of tubes for the NOS set.  I know Woo Audio sells NOS tubes, and you can pick what you want which is quite cool, but they jack up the prices way too much.  It would be cool to see something like that offered from ZMF, but with better pricing. . .


----------



## Hiker816

Wes S said:


> My thoughts on this are that if you are new to tubes, or just don't want to take a gamble on finding quiet and good testing tubes on ebay, then the $200 upcharge is worth it.  I could easily source those same tubes for a bit cheaper, but I also would not have the guarantee they will actually test good and be quiet ( I trust ZMF more than any tube dealer out there).  Assuming ZMF is checking for noise in a Pendant before shipping the tubes, that alone is worth some extra money right there.  So, with that said I could see the NOS tube set from ZMF being a great choice, but it's also a bit of a gamble not knowing what tubes you will actually get.  I will say having a quiet set of tubes is a revelation with the Pendant, and starting out with a quiet set could be a big plus while getting a feel for the amps sound.  I am not sure if ZMF does this, but it would be cool if you could pick the brand of tubes for the NOS set.  I know Woo Audio sells NOS tubes, and you can pick what you want which is quite cool, but they jack up the prices way too much.  It would be cool to see something like that offered from ZMF, but with better pricing. . .


Thanks, Wes!


----------



## Wes S

Hiker816 said:


> Thanks, Wes!


No prob!


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 28, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I am actually running a Funwerk ECC83 from 58' with the single getter arm and it's got the foil getter (I could see it being called solid).  USPS might take a long time, but all my packages have eventually been delivered.


My package with 3 RFT foil getter ECC81 finally arrived and all 3 test OK with plate to plate within 15% on 2 tubes and the 3rd near identical readings, plate to plate.

My single 1958 ECC83 RFT, Funkwert Erfurt foil getter is in route and I should have it soon!

I'll have time to listen tonight.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> My package with 3 RFT foil getter ECC81 finally arrived and all 3 test OK with plate to plate within 15% on 2 tubes and the 3rd near identical readings, plate to plate.
> 
> My single 1958 ECC83 RFT, Funkwert Erfurt foil getter is in route and I should have it soon!
> 
> I'll have time to listen tonight.


Fun times ahead!  Good to know his tubes test so well, too.


----------



## jonathan c

Speaking of RFT, I was able to purchase a batch of EZ81 rectifier tubes (for the Woo WA2) with D-foil getters! Until now, my RFT EZ81s sported halo getters…
…🎉🍾🎊…


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 29, 2021)

I gotta say that the RFT ECC81 foil getter tubes, at $15, may be the best bargain in tube audio if you can use 12AT7.  NOT because they are so inexpensive and a genuine Giant Killer of a tube but because they simply sound fantastic!!!

Crazy great detail, clarity and resolution without any nasty sibilance as well as nice deep bass.

Wes S has found some great tubes over the years, but the RFT are indeed the real deal.
My Bigger Ben, paired with susvara, has never sounded so good and that is truly something special!

1958 Funkwert ECC 83 foil getter is already in the states and should arrive soon.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I gotta say that the RFT ECC81 foil getter tubes, at $15, may be the best bargain in tube audio if you can use 12AT7.  NOT because they are so inexpensive and a genuine Giant Killer of a tube but because they simply sound fantastic!!!
> 
> Crazy great detail, clarity and resolution without any nasty sibilance as well as nice deep bass.
> 
> ...


That's awesome man!  I had a feeling you were gonna like them.   I can only imagine how good they sound with your setup.  With a setup like that and the RFT Foil Getter as the driver, you are most likely hearing some of the best sound possible.  Good stuff!


----------



## Wes S

Just checking in to say I have been doing some tube rolling as usual, and found another killer pairing with the Sylvania Black Plate 6BQ5's and it seems no matter what driver tube you put in front of them it sounds killer with my Atticus.  I just rolled in one of my Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates, and dang it's sounding really freaking good.  These Sylvania Black Plates really are a perfect match in the Pendant with my Atticus, and it seems they play well with quite a few different flavors of driver tubes.  I am liking these Sylvania so much, I just bought a backup set and at $60 bucks for a matched NOS pair they are hard to beat.  I love how cheap the tubes are for the Pendant compared to some of the other tube amps out there.   Back to blissful listening . . .


----------



## Wes S (Oct 30, 2021)

The "Back Plate Special" tube combo.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Just checking in to say I have been doing some tube rolling as usual, and found another killer pairing with the Sylvania Black Plate 6BQ5's and it seems no matter what driver tube you put in front of them it sounds killer with my Atticus.  I just rolled in one of my Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates, and dang it's sounding really freaking good.  These Sylvania Black Plates really are a perfect match in the Pendant with my Atticus, and it seems they play well with quite a few different flavors of driver tubes.  I am liking these Sylvania so much, I just bought a backup set and at $60 bucks for a matched NOS pair they are hard to beat.  I love how cheap the tubes are for the Pendant compared to some of the other tube amps out there.   Back to blissful listening . . .


Back when I had an amp that used 6BQ5's, these Tungsrams with the round plates were my favorites over many others (although I never tried any Sylvanias).  Fast and clean with nimble yet authoritative bass. 

(bent and corroded pins are optional  )


----------



## Wes S (Oct 30, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Back when I had an amp that used 6BQ5's, these Tungsrams with the round plates were my favorites over many others (although I never tried any Sylvanias).  Fast and clean with nimble yet authoritative bass.
> 
> (bent and corroded pins are optional  )


Yes sir!  I have several pairs of that version of Tungsram, and they are dynamic, punchy and clean with big bass.  The earlier Foil Disc Getter and even earlier Foil O Getter versions of that tube of which I also have and was running for months, are even better with a much more refined and tighter sound than the O Getter.  All three are fantastic tubes.

I am actually digging the Sylvania Black Plate even more and they have taken the Tungsram's Foil O Getters top spot.


----------



## nwavesailor

@Wes S had found and tried yet another KILLER tube in the Funwert foil getter ECC83 / 12AX7. Mine is 1958 production. 

At this point I can't say that it is better than the RFT foil getter ECC81 / 12AT7 at just a few tracks in but my initial impressions are that it may be the RFT's equal or perhaps better.


These are 2 inexpensive yet fantastic tubes and may displace the GEC A2900 in my BB!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> @Wes S had found and tried yet another KILLER tube in the Funwert foil getter ECC83 / 12AX7. Mine is 1958 production.
> 
> At this point I can't say that it is better than the RFT foil getter ECC81 / 12AT7 at just a few tracks in but my initial impressions are that it may be the RFT's equal or perhaps better.
> 
> ...


Heck yeah man!  I am alternating between a Funwerk ECC81 and ECC83 foil getter both from 58' with the single getter post, and can't get enough.  I think the earlier Funkwerk's have just a bit more warmth and a slightly more organic sound compared to the slightly brighter more expansive sounding RFT dual post foil getter .  Both are fantastic, but slightly different.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

nwavesailor said:


> @Wes S had found and tried yet another KILLER tube in the Funwert foil getter ECC83 / 12AX7. Mine is 1958 production.
> 
> At this point I can't say that it is better than the RFT foil getter ECC81 / 12AT7 at just a few tracks in but my initial impressions are that it may be the RFT's equal or perhaps better.
> 
> ...


Mine was processed through Kiev on October 20.  Nothing since.  Ebay says delivery by December 6.  The 2 RFTs I bought only took about 2 weeks to arrive. Fortunately it was cheap, so if it’s lost in the shipping black hole, not a big deal.


----------



## Bassic Needs

General question: Can you run headphones out of both 8 and 100 ohm taps at the same time?


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah man!  I am alternating between a Funwerk ECC81 and ECC83 foil getter both from 58' with the single getter post, and can't get enough.  I think the earlier Funkwerk's have just a bit more warmth and a slightly more organic sound compared to the slightly brighter more expansive sounding RFT dual post foil getter .  Both are fantastic, but slightly different.


All my ECC81, 82, 83 have foil getters. The Funkwert ECC83 have single getter supports. The RFT branded ECC81 and ECC82 have dual getter supports.

Most importantly, they all sound really nice!!!


----------



## Wes S (Nov 5, 2021)

Today's tube roll is another dynamite pairing with my Atticus.  The sound is huge and clear with really good impact, and lovely vocals.  The Sylvania 6BQ5 Black Plates have a nice well balanced clean and open sound with good impact, combined with the Brimar's deep stage, intimate vocals, deep punchy bass, and extended but smooth highs and then throw in the hard hitting and dynamic G.E.C. U709 for the rectification and it's a heavenly sound with my Atticus.  These three brands of tubes really compliment each other's strengths.  Also, this is the quietest tube roll I have encountered in the Pendant SE so far, so the blacker background is really helping with this heavenly sound.

Input - Brimar CV4035 Box Plate O Getter

Power - Sylvania 6BQ5 Black Plate O Getters

Rectifier - G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter


----------



## nwavesailor

When I had a Pendant there were SO many combo's that sounded really good to flat out great! 
Wes has the patience to methodically swap tubes and then listen to what he hears. I would either change too many at one time or lose track of what rectifier, input and power tubes I had used in a given combination.

The nice thing, for me,  about the BB amp is the input tube is generally the only one I swap so I'm am not wondering what tube did what!


----------



## Wes S (Nov 6, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> When I had a Pendant there were SO many combo's that sounded really good to flat out great!
> Wes has the patience to methodically swap tubes and then listen to what he hears. I would either change too many at one time or lose track of what rectifier, input and power tubes I had used in a given combination.
> 
> The nice thing, for me,  about the BB amp is the input tube is generally the only one I swap so I'm am not wondering what tube did what!


There is a method to the madness, and you nailed it with the patience part.  It's taken me quite a few tubes and 6 months of methodically swapping and listening to get a handle on what tubes work well with others and what this amp can really do.  With what I am hearing now, I think it was all worth it.   It really has been a journey though and I started out with the rarest and most expensive tubes I could find thinking those were the best, and to my surprise some of the cheapest and least talked about tubes (RFT and Tungsram Foil Disc Getters) actually ended up being my favorite ones.  I have since sold off all my expensive tubes, and now I just rock the affordable ones that play well together and could not be happier with the results.  This amp is a keeper for me, and pairs so well with my Atticus it's ridiculous.  The midrange magic of the Pendant SE and midrange magic of the Atticus combined is really something special, and I can't get enough.  The Pendant SE and Atticus truly go together like PB&J, and I am pleased as can be with the pairing.


----------



## nwavesailor

Now I just need to learn the selling part of MY $$$ tubes!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Now I just need to learn the selling part of MY $$$ tubes!


Teach me how to do that once you learn, please.  It's an interesting concept, just hard to fully grasp.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Teach me how to do that once you learn, please.  It's an interesting concept, just hard to fully grasp.


Bangybang might give lessons for the low, low price of…


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> There is a method to the madness, and you nailed it with the patience part.  It's taken me quite a few tubes and 6 months of methodically swapping and listening to get a handle on what tubes work well with others and what this amp can really do.  With what I am hearing now, I think it was all worth it.  *It really has been a journey though and I started out with the rarest and most expensive tubes I could find thinking those were the best, and to my surprise some of the cheapest and least talked about tubes (RFT and Tungsram Foil Disc Getters) actually ended up being my favorite ones. * I have since sold off all my expensive tubes, and now I just rock the affordable ones that play well together and could not be happier with the results.  This amp is a keeper for me, and pairs so well with my Atticus it's ridiculous.  The midrange magic of the Pendant SE and midrange magic of the Atticus combined is really something special, and I can't get enough.  The Pendant SE and Atticus truly go together like PB&J, and I am pleased as can be with the pairing.


Different tubes, different amp, but same 'phones and similar tube experience here.  Right now these Lansdale (branded) 6C4's have displaced every 6SN7 I own.  And to think I paid a whopping $33.50 for 7 of them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Different tubes, different amp, but same 'phones and similar tube experience here.  Right now these Lansdale (branded) 6C4's have displaced every 6SN7 I own.  And to think I paid a whopping $33.50 for 7 of them.


What's the specs on those bad boys? Lol. 
Amazing how fast my brain was thinking " Adapter/ mj2" 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> What's the specs on those bad boys? Lol.
> Amazing how fast my brain was thinking " Adapter/ mj2" 😂


Hmm…that is interesting…I thought “adapters / ears”…🤪


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Hmm…that is interesting…I thought “adapters / ears”…🤪


😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmmm. 🤔
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-E...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hopefully the ma on them isn't extremely high. 400ma max on mj2


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmmm. 🤔
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-E...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


That would go atop “12Axx-> ECC88’ and thereby become an ‘adadapter’…😆


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmmm. 🤔
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-E...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


150 ma on the heaters. But they are single triodes so you need two per channel.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/6/6C4.pdf


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> 150 ma on the heaters. But they are single triodes so you need two per channel.
> 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/6/6C4.pdf


Will that adapter work Bill? I'm really curious now. The MJ2 is 6922 socket with 12at7 on adapter running at 6.3v. I'd plug that adapter from ebay into the 12au7 adapters I have.


----------



## bcowen (Nov 6, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Will that adapter work Bill? I'm really curious now. The MJ2 is 6922 socket with 12at7 on adapter running at 6.3v. I'd plug that adapter from ebay into the 12au7 adapters I have.


Hmmmm.  While I'm not a fan of dual adaptering  I don't see any 6C4 -> 6922 direct adapters so that may be the only easily available option. Should work, but if the adapter you have now is set up to run the 12AT7 at 6 volts, I think you want this version:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193442813674?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=234820&meid=2caab0d4679642e69acaa4efce5e5a0c&pid=101112&rk=1&rkt=24&sd=200965190630&itm=193442813674&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2563228&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV1&_trksid=p2563228.c101112.m1982&amdata=cksum:1934428136742caab0d4679642e69acaa4efce5e5a0c|enc:AQAGAAACAKuiWN2AMQbpRf1uxDJeyvXyOWa%2B3eSW%2Bmvoc%2Bl7ChQSEjLTkIks4OK6fxK%2FHUunlGp0YBQTb3vfZtIzt%2BNcO39Lilbi9iWlw49Rfu4ZwxAEOgKbN80ooRaqLDnIQl6iEWbPmJ4uM4vEvoTsuk7KcZ6V6Y%2BG3qfUjtuAVDQOytf%2BpbISXYxF6eK%2FhXvD3HqpBzWAUVbey3ncpcwu4NU%2BeRZbBoOQnuGOoBJWwhN1O8FBbF%2B6R8PMGuEctLRqxvszdgZ2d5DV%2BW48320AE8gYP%2B3W6qjzCRuev7fa%2FLtqblcQ4v9Qwn%2BjqltHFiJNYjDYSYJxFtqxH8KFtrZVycIE2yy6yzc45iaZRyja1S3%2BwoqeKHt%2BrKNUMLPO3ACrjTT0Yz7QhecasRzf8Xfldw%2BRMLMjS8apK4VV%2BqIt%2FMehdch7J5JYdkyb35S%2FFLGwKjzOEbAAtiYk3QGiZkm3DDl684zMwkSR1DrYxvPH1XvX8RQ3Ap%2FhkxN2HpVZQHd76ysmEQr7uYd4%2Fki%2FXQlXY3nM4aPNpZIfyJpyluRbfTGcoU1EqKSA8JhIMFAaNEVoIK2Vh3rMJhx4ODifk76KylR1Ap9IH7wDksN7tyNee5ZOEfrFPwX5IVpS2OZjxpoKZYNExkVE6fTmkO2mjrIlLgeqB6ZfnFx9330%2BhoKwLrxwSJ3n|ampidL_CLK|clp:2563228

The one you linked stated 12.6v, so I'm assuming it is set up to plug into a 12A*7 socket (or adapter) that is running at 12.6v and cut down the voltage to 6.3v for the 6C4's. 

The 6C4 has an amplification factor of only 19.5 versus 33 for a 6922 and 60 for a 12AT7.  It is more closely aligned with a 6SN7 (or a 12AU7) than a 6922.  If you've run any 12AU7's without issue (gain wise) in the MJ 2, then the 6C4's should work as they have almost the same amplification factor.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Hmmmm.  While I'm not a fan of dual adaptering  I don't see any 6C4 -> 6922 direct adapters so that may be the only easily available option. Should work, but if the adapter you have now is set up to run the 12AT7 at 6 volts, I think you want this version:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/193442813674?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=234820&meid=2caab0d4679642e69acaa4efce5e5a0c&pid=101112&rk=1&rkt=24&sd=200965190630&itm=193442813674&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2563228&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV1&_trksid=p2563228.c101112.m1982&amdata=cksum:1934428136742caab0d4679642e69acaa4efce5e5a0c|enc:AQAGAAACAKuiWN2AMQbpRf1uxDJeyvXyOWa%2B3eSW%2Bmvoc%2Bl7ChQSEjLTkIks4OK6fxK%2FHUunlGp0YBQTb3vfZtIzt%2BNcO39Lilbi9iWlw49Rfu4ZwxAEOgKbN80ooRaqLDnIQl6iEWbPmJ4uM4vEvoTsuk7KcZ6V6Y%2BG3qfUjtuAVDQOytf%2BpbISXYxF6eK%2FhXvD3HqpBzWAUVbey3ncpcwu4NU%2BeRZbBoOQnuGOoBJWwhN1O8FBbF%2B6R8PMGuEctLRqxvszdgZ2d5DV%2BW48320AE8gYP%2B3W6qjzCRuev7fa%2FLtqblcQ4v9Qwn%2BjqltHFiJNYjDYSYJxFtqxH8KFtrZVycIE2yy6yzc45iaZRyja1S3%2BwoqeKHt%2BrKNUMLPO3ACrjTT0Yz7QhecasRzf8Xfldw%2BRMLMjS8apK4VV%2BqIt%2FMehdch7J5JYdkyb35S%2FFLGwKjzOEbAAtiYk3QGiZkm3DDl684zMwkSR1DrYxvPH1XvX8RQ3Ap%2FhkxN2HpVZQHd76ysmEQr7uYd4%2Fki%2FXQlXY3nM4aPNpZIfyJpyluRbfTGcoU1EqKSA8JhIMFAaNEVoIK2Vh3rMJhx4ODifk76KylR1Ap9IH7wDksN7tyNee5ZOEfrFPwX5IVpS2OZjxpoKZYNExkVE6fTmkO2mjrIlLgeqB6ZfnFx9330%2BhoKwLrxwSJ3n|ampidL_CLK|clp:2563228
> 
> ...


SWEET! Thanks for the proper link bro! Looks like I'll be creating the Frankenmjolnir soon 🤣


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> SWEET! Thanks for the proper link bro! Looks like I'll be creating the Frankenmjolnir soon 🤣


LOL!  Hope everything fits.    

The Lansdales are the best yet.  Tried some Tung Sols that are quite good (but not as good), some GE's (yes, but sigh...they were _cheap _cheap ), and have some Amperex that I haven't listened to yet.  Cool thing is all of them are dirt cheap (comparatively), so it doesn't cost a lot to play around.


----------



## Wes S

So, just checking back in to report the Brimar CV4035 Long Ribbed Box Plate is a keeper and will be staying in the rotation.  The transparency is through the roof, and the amount of detail coming through is stunning.  The Brimar has this really cool way of pushing the vocals forward, while everything else in the mix in more balanced, clean sounding and spread out, so the vocals are the star of the show.  Paired up with the Sylvania 6BQ5 Black Plate and G.E.C. U709 Black Plate it's quite a neutral sound, with outstanding mids (especially vocals), and a massive stage. This combo sure sounds killer with my Atticus.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> So, just checking back in to report the Brimar CV4035 Long Ribbed Box Plate is a keeper and will be staying in the rotation.  The transparency is through the roof, and the amount of detail coming through is stunning.  The Brimar has this really cool way of pushing the vocals forward, while everything else in the mix in more balanced, clean sounding and spread out, so the vocals are the star of the show.  Paired up with the Sylvania 6BQ5 Black Plate and G.E.C. U709 Black Plate it's quite a neutral sound, with outstanding mids (especially vocals), and a massive stage. This combo sure sounds killer with my Atticus.


Any link for the Brimar CV4035?


----------



## nwavesailor

I'm sure Wes will chime in and confirm these are the Brimar's he may be using

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I'm sure Wes will chime in and confirm these are the Brimar's he may be using
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles


That's the one.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> That's the one.


I have zero self control here so had to get one although now I have enough tubes (all of which sound pretty great) to last me several lifetimes. I need to stop following this thread, lol.


----------



## nwavesailor

I hear ya on the several lifetimes of tubes, @robo24!

Wes is smart enough to buy, try and then SELL!!!!


----------



## Wes S

robo24 said:


> I have zero self control here so had to get one although now I have enough tubes (all of which sound pretty great) to last me several lifetimes. I need to stop following this thread, lol.


It's a great tube, that is well balanced top to bottom with really good frontal depth, outstanding separation and layering in the mids, and a very immersive 3d like stage overall.  Compared to the more well known Brimar CV455 FSG, the CV4035 has a more open and spacious stage, and less middbass bloom, and sounds more neutral overall.  Both are fantastic tubes and I like the CV455 with my Atticus and the CV4035 with my VC.


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> I hear ya on the several lifetimes of tubes, @robo24!
> 
> Wes is smart enough to buy, try and then SELL!!!!


You left out ‘cry’…and then…


----------



## Wes S (Nov 9, 2021)

After many input tubes and rolls, here are the standouts and the one's in my rotation.  All of these tubes have outstanding detail, are well balanced, and are a step up from the rest of the pack in terms of overall performance.

From left to right - Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disc Getter, Brimar CV4035 Long Box Plate O Getter, Funkwerk ECC83 Foil Disc Getter, RFT ECC81 Foil Disc Getter, Brimar 6060 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter, Brimar CV455 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter






Tungsram ECC82 - Quick, dynamic, big deep hard hitting bass, clean mids, and smooth highs, well balanced and wide and tall stage

Brimar CV4035 - Transparent, very well balanced, good layering and imaging, huge open stage with good depth and frontal projection, very 3D, lovely vocals

Funkwerk Erfurt ECC83 - Musical, well balanced and cohesive, deep hard hitting and tight bass, good dynamics and wide stage (a warmer earlier version of the RFT)

RFT ECC81- Detailed, huge immersive stage, a bit more neutral than the earlier Funkwerk, this tube has legendary balance top to bottom

Brimar 6060 - Warm, forward (I feel like I am inside the music), punchy midbass, 3D like stage, tight imaging, good depth and frontal projection, vocals are the star of the show

Brimar CV455 - Just a tad less warmer than the 6060, but just as good

More to come, with power tubes next. . .


----------



## Bassic Needs

Bassic Needs said:


> General question: Can you run headphones out of both 8 and 100 ohm taps at the same time?


FYI Justin at ampsandsound advised it may work but sound really bad, and is not advisable.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Guidostrunk said:


> Billy apparently lost his first pair. They hit NY and never moved.
> This seller has 7 foil getters left. I bought a pair and Billy bought a pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC81-RFT-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0


So I ordered this, and this happened:  
Shipped internationally in an envelope,  in a wad of paper?? Surprisingly, the tube was not broken.




Also, its not a foil getter is it?




Can someone post a good picture of a "foil" so i know what to look for?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bassic Needs said:


> So I ordered this, and this happened:
> Shipped internationally in an envelope,  in a wad of paper?? Surprisingly, the tube was not broken.
> 
> 
> ...


@Wes S has some really good pics. That is an O getter. That's not the tube in the pic of the ad.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I would definitely contact the seller. I haven't even received mine yet from him.


----------



## Wes S

Bassic Needs said:


> So I ordered this, and this happened:
> Shipped internationally in an envelope,  in a wad of paper?? Surprisingly, the tube was not broken.
> 
> 
> ...


That's definitely not a foil getter, and here is what it looks like.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 11, 2021)

I appreciate the really low cost and do believe the RFT and Funkwert are great tubes in the Pendant and also in the BB. My go to had been the GEC A2900 (not in the Pendant) tube.

I have a few pretty rare HiVac 12AU7 that I decided to try in the BB last night and it sounds really sweet with unreal detail and no glassy top end. I guess i see why the HiVac are sought after and command high prices when they come up for sale.

I never sell my tubes but for some crazy reason I posted about having these HiVac a couple of years ago and got immediate requests to sell or trade. I had no idea what I had and let several pairs and singles go. 
Oh well, I still have a couple of these gems so I'll quit crying!!!!!


----------



## Wes S (Nov 12, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> I appreciate the really low cost and do believe the RFT and Funkwert are great tubes in the Pendant and also in the BB. My go to had been the GEC A2900 (not in the Pendant) tube.
> 
> I have a few pretty rare HiVac 12AU7 that I decided to try in the BB last night and it sounds really sweet with unreal detail and no glassy top end. I guess i see why the HiVac are sought after and command high prices when they come up for sale.
> 
> ...


Lucky you!  I have always wanted to hear that super rare tube (now the prices will be even higher ), and glad it's working out for you.  Perhaps it has something to do with the lower gain of the 12AU7. . . Speaking of 12AU7, I actually pulled out some gems last night from my stash and discovered another killer pairing myself.  There are several tubes in my collection I will never get rid of, and the RFT/Funkwerk are riding the bench at the moment.  Got to love input tube options and swapping power tubes helps dial it in.  I am finding I like blending several brands or "house sounds" to get that special synergy, and have found several combos of equal caliber with different flavors of awesome.  I've been rotating them to keep things fresh and exciting lately and it's been a blast.  Why stick with one tube, when you can have fun with several. . .


----------



## nwavesailor

My crystal ball is a bit hazy BUT is telling me you kept some sweet 6201 and perhaps Raytheon 7728 / 7730?

I'm off on a wacky tangent with trying some dual Tung Sol and Visseaux 6J5 and Mullard L63.......... 






Sounds pretty darn nice!


----------



## Wes S (Nov 12, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> My crystal ball is a bit hazy BUT is telling me you kept some sweet 6201 and perhaps Raytheon 7728 / 7730?
> 
> I'm off on a wacky tangent with trying some dual Tung Sol and Visseaux 6J5 and Mullard L63..........
> 
> ...


Nope, I sold all those and don't miss them.   The tube in question will remain a secret, as I need to find a backup before the cats out of the bag with this one.

Dude that looks crazy!  I can't get past the look of adapters, but that must sound interesting.  Those G.E.C. power tubes look and must sound killer and that rectifier wow!  Just a friendly suggestion, but I would ditch those Bluejeans RCA's if I were you.  I had a set of those, and they sucked the life out of the music in my opinion.


----------



## nwavesailor (Nov 12, 2021)

Well if the BJ cables are sucking the life out, when I swap in a pair of more serious IC's from my 2 ch system it should really sound great!   
I have some Ridge Street and VH Audio RCA's that are decent.

I recall when quite a few of us were trying 6J5 x 2 vs a single 6SN7 that the some looked at this as big BOTTLE, BIG sound!

I am quite taken by the Tung Sol's in right now and think the Visseaux may actually be better tubes............It's 2:20  so I'll wait till tomorrow.

Wes......you know you need back up and then backup FOR the backup before the kitty is set free!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My Funkwerk ecc83 finally made its way into the US. It’s only 1 state away now. Who knows how long it will take from there, but at least it’s back on the radar.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

4LoveOfSound said:


> My Funkwerk ecc83 finally made its way into the US. It’s only 1 state away now. Who knows how long it will take from there, but at least it’s back on the radar.


Apparently 1 day, because there was a small little box waiting for me when I got home!  First impressions, wow!  One of, if not the quietest tubes I have and it sounds awesome.  Big sound stage, airy, lots of bass, nice detailed treble all for $8.50 (plus shipping of course).  It's barely even warmed up and it's already my favorite of all I own.  Thanks @Wes S !

Should sound awesome when I get my new Blackwood VC and used 2k copper cable I scored this morning.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, the RFT and Funkwert ECC81, 82, 83 are great tubes AND at low cost!


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Apparently 1 day, because there was a small little box waiting for me when I got home!  First impressions, wow!  One of, if not the quietest tubes I have and it sounds awesome.  Big sound stage, airy, lots of bass, nice detailed treble all for $8.50 (plus shipping of course).  It's barely even warmed up and it's already my favorite of all I own.  Thanks @Wes S !
> 
> Should sound awesome when I get my new Blackwood VC and used 2k copper cable I scored this morning.


Heck yeah!  You described the sound perfectly.


----------



## Wes S

Back to the old tried and true Tungsram Welded Plate Foil Disc Getters and G.E.C. U709 tube combo.  This combo is dynamic, detailed and holographic as all get out.  Wow, what a ride it is with my Atticus!

Input - Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter

Power - Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters

Rectifier - G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter





Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I’m currently running newer (mid to late 60’s I think) Tungsram power tubes, the 58’ RFT Funkwerk ecc83 input and 59’ Mullard Blackburn (Amprex labeled) rectifier. I’m pretty darn happy with this. I would like to get a set of the older welded, foil disk Tungsram though.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I’m currently running newer (mid to late 60’s I think) Tungsram power tubes, the 58’ RFT Funkwerk ecc83 input and 59’ Mullard Blackburn (Amprex labeled) rectifier. I’m pretty darn happy with this. I would like to get a set of the older welded, foil disk Tungsram though.


That's a great combo you got there.  The Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters are probably the most balanced, natural and detailed sounding power tubes I have tried, so I highly recommend looking for some.  I don't mention this enough, but the G.E.C. U709 is a game changer tube as well, and they are a bit pricey when they become available, but they are in a league of their own and are worth every penny.  The Mullard EZ81 is fantastic and is my second favorite, but the U709 is definitely a step up when it comes to dynamics and detail.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

I'm a bit inexperience with tubes, but are these are the EL84s that people favor for the pendant? 50/60s Amperex/Philips D Getters Made in Holland? They should have a bit more body and tube sound than something more neutral?

On a tube note, I tried to read about his. But what makes it a D Getter? I see nothing that looks like a D.


----------



## steve468

Those are some of my favourites. I closely follow the very excellent suggestions of all the lovely, learned people in this thread, but I always seem to come back to the Amperex d-getters... in fact, I have Amperex EL84s and an Amperex 12at7 in my Pendant as we speak. To me, they just have a natural, realistic sound and a midrange to die for.

As for what makes them d-getters, the little metal loop near the top of the tube, just visible under the chrome part, looks sort of like a capital d. This is different than later Amperex which have a ring or o-getter (circular). D-getters are generally pre-1960, and are preferrable for some people.


----------



## ColdsnapBry (Nov 16, 2021)

steve468 said:


> Those are some of my favourites. I closely follow the very excellent suggestions of all the lovely, learned people in this thread, but I always seem to come back to the Amperex d-getters... in fact, I have Amperex EL84s and an Amperex 12at7 in my Pendant as we speak. To me, they just have a natural, realistic sound and a midrange to die for.
> 
> As for what makes them d-getters, the little metal loop near the top of the tube, just visible under the chrome part, looks sort of like a capital d. This is different than later Amperex which have a ring or o-getter (circular). D-getters are generally pre-1960, and are preferrable for some people.



Oh! I see that capital D getter now that I know where to look.

I was lucky enough to source these locally, wasn't cheap, but arrived next day versus waiting weeks and weeks for international delivery.

I'm trying these out on my amp now, I figure I'd go straight to what some might consider the best to see how the amp can truly sound.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 17, 2021)

ColdsnapBry said:


> I'm a bit inexperience with tubes, but are these are the EL84s that people favor for the pendant? 50/60s Amperex/Philips D Getters Made in Holland? They should have a bit more body and tube sound than something more neutral?
> 
> On a tube note, I tried to read about his. But what makes it a D Getter? I see nothing that looks like a D.


Those are some of the better "flavor" tubes in the family, and you are correct about adding body.  If you want to juice up the midbass and mids the Amperex EL84 D Getters are where it's at.  They are some of the warmest tubes in the EL84 family and the earlier D Getter is just a bit warmer and more refined/natural sounding compared to the later O Getter.

I started out with the D Getter Amperex EL84 and enjoyed them quite a bit, however I soon discovered they had a bit too much midbass bloom for my preferences and system.  If you want warmth and bass they have it in spades.  The only tube warmer is the Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Square Getter.


----------



## robo24 (Nov 17, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Those are some of the better "flavor" tubes in the family, and you are correct about adding body.  If you want to juice up the midbass and mids the Amperex EL84 D Getters are where it's at.  They are some of the warmest tubes in the EL84 family and the earlier D Getter is just a bit warmer and more refined/natural sounding compared to the later O Getter.
> 
> I started out with the D Getter Amperex EL84 and enjoyed them quite a bit, however I soon discovered they had a bit too much midbass bloom for my preferences and system.  If you want warmth and bass they have it in spades.  The only tube warmer is the Mullard EL84 Blackburn RX1 Square Getter.


Any thoughts on the various Bugle Boy options? I've been playing around with them using a 1960 Holland 12AT7 & unknown year NOS EZ81 England (Tube Code: B8A) along with the EL 84 D-getters, but am wondering about adding EL84 Bugle Boys.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 18, 2021)

robo24 said:


> Any thoughts on the various Bugle Boy options? I've been playing around with them using a 1960 Holland 12AT7 & unknown year NOS EZ81 England (Tube Code: B8A) along with the EL 84 D-getters, but am wondering about adding EL84 Bugle Boys.


Bugle Boy is just another label/name for Amperex/Philips, so nothing special about Bugle Boy in particular.  Also, the code B8A is from Mullard and stands for Blackburn, England January 58'.  The acid etched codes are what to go by with Amperex and Mullard tubes for future reference.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 19, 2021)

Today's tube rolling adventure is all about the power tubes.  These are the one's that have risen to the top, and I will share more about each of their sound sigs shortly.  More to come. . .


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Today's tube rolling adventure is all about the power tubes.  These are the one's that have risen to the top, and I will share more about each of their sound sigs shortly.  More to come. . .


What?  No Telefunkens?  Man, they are awesome sounding....until they red-plate, which is not a matter of "if" but "when."


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes has the patience to try a LOT of tubes and then countless combinations of power..........rectifier ...........and input in the pendant!

Thankfully I tried the stock power tubes for the BB and thought they sounded goodand then bought 2 different pairs GEC KT88 and the very similar (but needding an adpater)  GEC TT21 and the hunt was over for power tubes!!!

Rectifier is a metal base 5AR4, or usually a USAF 596 or Emissions Labs mesh plate 5U4.

Input tubes are, like in  the Pendant, countless but at least my power tubes and recifier is somewhat set!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> Wes has the patience to try a LOT of tubes and then countless combinations of power..........rectifier ...........and input in the pendant!
> 
> Thankfully I tried the stock power tubes for the BB and thought they sounded goodand then bought 2 different pairs GEC KT88 and the very similar (but needding an adpater)  GEC TT21 and the hunt was over for power tubes!!!
> 
> ...


Have you tried a Cossor/GEC/Brimar U52 or Western Electric 422a rectifier? These are my favorite rectifiers. Different flavors. My personal pick of the 2 was the U52. Lol.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried a Cossor/GEC/Brimar U52 or Western Electric 422a rectifier? These are my favorite rectifiers. Different flavors. My personal pick of the 2 was the U52. Lol.


LOL!  And if any of the OTL guys thought WE 42*1*A's were becoming uber expensive.....


----------



## nwavesailor

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried a Cossor/GEC/Brimar U52 or Western Electric 422a rectifier? These are my favorite rectifiers. Different flavors. My personal pick of the 2 was the U52. Lol.


Thanks, Guidostrunk!

I have not heard enough of a difference in rectifiers to spend big bucks or add to my collection buying the WE 422 or GEC U52.
I figure I have 3 highly regarded rectifiers now and don't need or frankly want to chase down any more.

I am SURE the U52 do sound good.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  And if any of the OTL guys thought WE 42*1*A's were becoming uber expensive.....


Not even a wege_high_tubes quote! 😳!


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> What?  No Telefunkens?  Man, they are awesome sounding....until they red-plate, which is not a matter of "if" but "when."


LOL!  For some reason Telefunken tubes just don't do it for me.  They always seem a bit dull and lifeless (bass light).


----------



## Wes S (Nov 20, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> Wes has the patience to try a LOT of tubes and then countless combinations of power..........rectifier ...........and input in the pendant!
> 
> Thankfully I tried the stock power tubes for the BB and thought they sounded goodand then bought 2 different pairs GEC KT88 and the very similar (but needding an adpater)  GEC TT21 and the hunt was over for power tubes!!!
> 
> ...


I looked at those G.E.C. KT88 prices recently and could never afford to roll those like I do my EL84's.  G.E.C. does make an EL84, but it's actually nothing special like their big power tubes.  Also, thankfully the EL84's are plentiful and cheap, so I can afford to roll multiple sets (with backups) all with different flavors of awesome.  After yesterday's power tube roll off, it is clear to me that I will be keeping several sets in the rotation, and it's pretty damn cool how different they sound combined with different input tubes (Note, I have not spent more then $80 a pair).  The options and different flavors of awesome seem to be endless with both the EL84 and 12A_7 families of tubes, and it's a blast keeping things fresh and having the ability to change up the sound with both tube types.

Now for the rectifier I use, it will always be the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter (I have a backup for my backup, so the future looks great ), as this little guy takes the amp to another level of detail and dynamics, and can't be touched by any other rectifier in the family.  I often wonder how many people would be blown away at what this rectifier can do in the Pendant if they would only take a chance. . . Hell, if I did not have the G.E.C. U709 as the rectifier, I don't think I would have ever been totally satisfied with this amp, as it makes that much of a difference to me.  So with that being said, I bet that G.E.C. U52 could be a game changer if it's anything like the U709.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> LOL!  And if any of the OTL guys thought WE 42*1*A's were becoming uber expensive.....


😳


----------



## Guidostrunk

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, Guidostrunk!
> 
> I have not heard enough of a difference in rectifiers to spend big bucks or add to my collection buying the WE 422 or GEC U52.
> I figure I have 3 highly regarded rectifiers now and don't need or frankly want to chase down any more.
> ...


Maybe an auction worth watching 😁
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Osram...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Not even a wege_high_tubes quote! 😳!


LOL!  The seller must be related...or smoking the same stuff.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Anyone interested in swapping something like a 7189 RCA Blackplate or something else for my Amperex 50/60 D Getter E84? The Amperex just don't have enough warmth for me, it's there, but my preference is more! There's also a chance the ones I have are a bit more mids, highs, and midbass focused.


----------



## Hiker816

Just got a notification that my Pendant SE has shipped!  Embarrassingly, this will be my first tube amp.  But thanks to this thread, I've learned a ton about it and have already assembled a decent arsenal of vintage tubes.  Thanks, everyone, for the sage advice, and I look forward to contributing more once it arrives!


----------



## jonathan c

Hiker816 said:


> Just got a notification that my Pendant SE has shipped!  Embarrassingly, this will be my first tube amp.  But thanks to this thread, I've learned a ton about it and have already assembled a decent arsenal of vintage tubes.  Thanks, everyone, for the sage advice, and I look forward to contributing more once it arrives!


Don’t be embarrassed…get braced for tube rolling 😜….at its best: 👍👍👍; at its worst: 💸💸💸.


----------



## Baldeagle58

Hiker816 said:


> Just got a notification that my Pendant SE has shipped!  Embarrassingly, this will be my first tube amp.  But thanks to this thread, I've learned a ton about it and have already assembled a decent arsenal of vintage tubes.  Thanks, everyone, for the sage advice, and I look forward to contributing more once it arrives!


Welcome aboard.
You can tube roll to your heart’s content with this amp. The only thing that you should always remember is that it’s the music that matters.
As Robert Hunter wrote “If you get confused listen to the music play” (Franklin’s Tower).
Enjoy.


----------



## jonathan c

Baldeagle58 said:


> Welcome aboard.
> You can tube roll to your heart’s content with this amp. The only thing that you should always remember is that it’s the music that matters.
> As Robert Hunter wrote “If you get confused listen to the music play” (Franklin’s Tower).
> Enjoy.


Nice quote. It makes me think of the converse…. “Music is for losers who do not listen to graphs…”. 😜😀😜😀.


----------



## galileaux

Hi all -

Are there any recommendations for tubes to warm up the signature of the Pendant? I'm getting an HD800s in, and wanted something that'd pair well with them! 

Thank you!


----------



## Gorillaphant

Sorry for the simple question but how often do you all clean/dust off your Pendant and other audio equipment? Do you take any special care to clean your equipment or just do a standard wipe down with a microfiber cloth/something similar? I haven't been at my desk in probably 10 days and am a bit surprised by how much dust has built up over that time.


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## jonathan c (Dec 3, 2021)

Gorillaphant said:


> Sorry for the simple question but how often do you all clean/dust off your Pendant and other audio equipment? Do you take any special care to clean your equipment or just do a standard wipe down with a microfiber cloth/something similar? I haven't been at my desk in probably 10 days and am a bit surprised by how much dust has built up over that time.


I do not own a Pendant but other tube gear: Woo Audio WA2, Linear Tube Audio MZ3….I cover them with soft felt folders (came with Arctic Cables). I clean daily with a very slightly damp lint-free cloth…a case of ‘audiocd’…🤷🏻…Woo Audio WA6 in use…


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## Wes S

Gorillaphant said:


> Sorry for the simple question but how often do you all clean/dust off your Pendant and other audio equipment? Do you take any special care to clean your equipment or just do a standard wipe down with a microfiber cloth/something similar? I haven't been at my desk in probably 10 days and am a bit surprised by how much dust has built up over that time.


I keep mine covered like @jonathan c, when I am not using mine.  Then while using and in between I wipe it down with a Mico fiber cloth.


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## Wes S

galileaux said:


> Hi all -
> 
> Are there any recommendations for tubes to warm up the signature of the Pendant? I'm getting an HD800s in, and wanted something that'd pair well with them!
> 
> Thank you!


Early Mullards are what you want, if you are looking for warmth.  

For power tubes - Look for Mullard EL84 Square Getters from Blackburn 60' or earlier.

For Input tube - Look for Mullard ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter from Blackburn 57' or earlier.

Rectifier - Mullard EZ81 Square Getter from Blackburn 60' or earlier.

The input tube will give you the biggest change, followed by the power tubes, and then rectifier.  Note the dates, as the latter years production Mullards with O Getters don't have the warmth the early Square Getter versions have.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> I do not own a Pendant but other tube gear: Woo Audio WA2, Linear Tube Audio MZ3….I cover them with soft felt folders (came with Arctic Cables). I clean daily with a very slightly damp lint-free cloth…a case of ‘audiocd’…🤷🏻…Woo Audio WA6 in use…


Daily?  DAILY?!?  That's not OCD, that's like...like...whatever is worse than OCD, exponentially.  

I just take a garden hose to mine and try to remember to turn it off first.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Daily?  DAILY?!?  That's not OCD, that's like...like...whatever is worse than OCD, exponentially.
> 
> I just take a garden hose to mine and try to remember to turn it off first.


Great for cooling off transformers and Cetron 7236s etc 😄😄😄


----------



## Baldeagle58

I have a question for the tube gurus in this thread. My Pendant (non SE) has always had a very low level hum and nothing that I have tried has ever made an impression on it, let alone fix it. In the end I elected to listen to the music and it really has not bothered my listening experience. Yesterday a funkwerk ECC 81 arrived (from Bulgaria). The hum is not existent with this tube in but there is tube rush that is about the same volume. Should I be looking for a quieter ECC 81 or maybe be buying the Funkwerk ECC83 ???
Any views??


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## Wes S (Dec 10, 2021)

Baldeagle58 said:


> I have a question for the tube gurus in this thread. My Pendant (non SE) has always had a very low level hum and nothing that I have tried has ever made an impression on it, let alone fix it. In the end I elected to listen to the music and it really has not bothered my listening experience. Yesterday a funkwerk ECC 81 arrived (from Bulgaria). The hum is not existent with this tube in but there is tube rush that is about the same volume. Should I be looking for a quieter ECC 81 or maybe be buying the Funkwerk ECC83 ???
> Any views??


The low level hum is something many with Pendants and especially non SE have experienced, but I have gotten mine down to nonexistent with selective tube rolling and careful placement of the amp, power cord and interconnects.  The thing with tubes, is any one of them can be noisy no matter the type or brand, and it takes careful selection and buying to get quiet ones.  As for the rushing sound, unfortunately I have had several tubes that do this (especially RFT/Funkwerk) and they did not get any better or quieter with burn in.  I always try to buy tubes from reputable dealers with a return policy, and I really like to buy from sellers who check the tubes for noise, as well as test the numbers.  Sometimes though you have to take a gamble with rare and hard to find tubes, as they often aren't available from sellers who check for noise, and sometimes it pays off and you get a quiet one and other times it's a bust.  So with that said, I would ditch that noisy Funkwerk (hopefully you can get a replacement or at least a refund), and try to find a quiet one.  I do have a few extremely quite RFT/Funkwerk (ECC81, ...82, ...83) and they don't hum at all, so they can be found.  I will say it took several tubes and quite a bit of time to find some quiet one's, but it is totally worth it to hear a quiet Pendant.  Once I got the noise level down to nonexistent, the level of detail that came through and the added depth to the stage was stunning.  It's amazing how much of the little micro details and nuances get lost when you have a hum or noisy tubes, and you don't realize it until you get rid of the noise.  This amp is absolutely incredible once you get some quiet tubes in it, and I really hope you can find some.  From experience and tons of rolling and I mean tons of rolling all 3 tube types (input/power/rectifier) with this amp, the input tube (ECC81, ...82, ...83) has the biggest impact on noise and especially hum.

Happy hunting!


----------



## Baldeagle58

Thanks for that. I will get on the hunt for those Funkwerk tubes. They all seem to be sold out of Eastern European countries which makes it tough to find that “reputation seller”.


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## prosnowboarder (Dec 10, 2021)

I don't think I ever responded to this thread oh so long ago when the se version was first released.
Well the only reason for that is I've been so enthralled and completely satisfied with this amp upon receiving it that I haven't felt the need to ask for more.
But I realized this amp is very special and needs more praise.
Loving the pairing with my verite the most but the auteur sounds excellent as well.

I do miss the mjolnir 2 but only because it presented a different type of sound but still was comparatively worse than the pendant se for my taste.
So I am very happy having the pendant as my sole hp amp especially with the huge ability to alter the sound with unlimited tube rolling possibilities. Hopefully I'll be collecting more tubes for this beauty in the near future. But I've come across a few magical combinations with the few tubes I have at this point.
I really liked the nos tubes from zmf for a while and was my go to for getting used to the pendant but I've recently started experimenting with the various stock tubes and the small collection of nos tubes I've acquired since.
I found I usually like the nos tubes in the front spots but only certain combinations.
And to me the new production stock jj tube  sounds just as good as any nos in the back tube port(6ca4) maybe better in some circumstances. I also received a "Blackburn Mullard made dated 1965, halo getter" from Brent Jesse that sounds pretty good.

This G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter sounds like it could be a nice addition but I should probably focus on getting some better power tubes first though, right?

Oh and for the input tubes which of the 12 ax/t/u tube type is recommended with the verite?

One more thing, I use blue jeans interconnects from my yggy and I noticed someone mentioned the blue jeans cables suck the life out of this amp. What interconnects would you guys recommend instead for close to the same price?


----------



## Wes S (Dec 11, 2021)

prosnowboarder said:


> I don't think I ever responded to this thread oh so long ago when the se version was first released.
> Well the only reason for that is I've been so enthralled and completely satisfied with this amp upon receiving it that I haven't felt the need to ask for more.
> But I realized this amp is very special and needs more praise.
> Loving the pairing with my verite the most but the auteur sounds excellent as well.
> ...


Nice to see someone else enjoying this amazing amp as much as me!

The Blackburn Mullard EZ81 Halo Getter is a pretty good tube, and the earlier Square Getter version is even better (more natural and organic sounding).  I actually just pulled my G.E.C. U709 and rolled one of my Mullard Blackburn EZ81 Square Getters from 54', and it's definitely just as good but different.  The U709 has bigger bass and especially more mid bass warmth, with a more open/airy sound in the mids and better extension in the treble.  The Mullard (Blackburn) has more of a subbass focus, and then more forward mids and especially vocals, with smoother highs.  I like the Mullard EZ81 with my VC, and the G.E.C. U709 with my Atticus, as each of these pairings play with each other's strengths very well.

As far as recommending tubes for your Verite and Auteur, I suggest using different tube combos for each headphone, as I have learned that the Pendant is so versatile with tube rolling, that you can really dial it in for each headphone.  If you think about it, each ZMF headphone is tuned differently, so using a tube combo optimized for each headphone really lets you hear them to their full potential.  I love my Atticus just as much as my VC on my Pendant SE, each with their own unique tube combos, and I feel like they both are sounding their best.  So with that said, what are you looking to improve on with the sound on both headphones, and then I will be happy to make some tube recommendations.  After 7 months of non stop tube rolling all 3 tube types, I have gotten a pretty good handle on what tubes can do in this amp and which ones to look for.

Also, I am the one who made that comment about the Blue Jeans interconnects sucking the life out of the music, so I feel like I should at least offer up a better solution, and for something in a similar price range the Audioquest Evergreen would be my first choice over the Blue Jeans.  I have worked my way up the ladder in price and performance from AudioQuest Evergreen to AQ Red River and the Red River are quite a step up in all aspects and are where I am happy to stop climbing the ladder (at least for a good while).  There are so many good interconnects out there, and I am sure others will have their favorites too, I just know what I have heard (mostly lower end budget stuff), and the Blue Jeans don't do the music any favors.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Out of current production EL84, can anyone comment on the ones that don't suck? Mullard, Tung-sol, JJ, Electro-Harmonix? I'm getting a bit exhausted trying to source NOS tubes, it's a bit risky where I'm at because of location and shipping times.


----------



## steve468

ColdsnapBry said:


> Out of current production EL84, can anyone comment on the ones that don't suck? Mullard, Tung-sol, JJ, Electro-Harmonix? I'm getting a bit exhausted trying to source NOS tubes, it's a bit risky where I'm at because of location and shipping times.


I haven't heard every new production tube, but the Sovtek EL84M are fairly neutral and not too weird sounding. Also, the Gold Lions ARE weird sounding, but in a kind of pleasing way; sort of like the archetypical "tube sound." Fat, loose bass, thick mids, but really harsh highs.

If you can get them where you are, my favourite readily available tube is The Tube Store's Preferred Series 7189. To my ears they sound very natural, with great clarity and some real magic in the mids. They're just selected Russian 6P14P-EV from the 80's, so not new production, but I don't think they'll run out anytime soon.


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## Wes S (Dec 16, 2021)

For those curious about the rectifier and rolling them, I can confirm they make as much of a difference as the input and power tubes.

Here are the one's I have rolled recently and they each offer a different presentation, especially in the way the bass is delivered and soundstage.






1.  Mullard EZ81 Blackburn Square Getter (Wrinkle glass) 54' - strong and tight bass with a subbass focus, forward magical mids, and smooth highs, and holographic stage to die for

2.  Raytheon (Japan) EZ81 Triple Mica Square Getter (super rare version) - Huge bass with a big middbass bloom and a very warm and thick sound overall.  If you are looking to add some tonal density this tube is it.

3.  Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter - Well balanced top to bottom, with good detail and a hint of warmth, this tube is very natural/organic sounding with nothing jumping out at you and a really nice open stage

4.  Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81- Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter - Bass is tight and fast, mids are clean and well balanced, and the soundstage is massive

5.  G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter - Strong bass with nice middbass bloom and warmth, dynamic with really good punch and clean airy mids, extended highs, and a huge stage with really good depth (there is a reason this tube cost so much, when and if you can find one).  

I have said this before and I will say it again, this amp is amazing in how you can tweak the sound from 3 different angles with the input, power, and rectifier tubes.  This amp is still continuing to amaze me after 7 months of ownership.  Long live the Pendant SE!


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## Wes S (Dec 16, 2021)

For those looking for a G.E.C. U709, you might want to get in on this auction.  I bought one of mine from this seller with no issues, and this one is perfectly balanced as well.  This is a magical rectifier, that combines warmth and detail with a very deep stage and strong dynamics.  I really hope a Pendant owners wins it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203747137230


----------



## LeMoviedave

Wes S said:


> For those curious about the rectifier and rolling them, I can confirm they make as much of a difference as the input and power tubes.
> 
> Here are the one's I have rolled recently and they each offer a different presentation, especially in the way the bass is delivered and soundstage.
> 
> ...


As a fellow owner of the Sonnet Morpheus who might be on the verge of buying the Pendant, I am assuming you find the Morpheus to pair well with it?


----------



## Wes S

LeMoviedave said:


> As a fellow owner of the Sonnet Morpheus who might be on the verge of buying the Pendant, I am assuming you find the Morpheus to pair well with it?


Absolutely.  The speed and neutrality of the Pendant works extremely well with the smooth yet highly detailed Morpheus.  There is a reason they are both sold by ZMF.


----------



## LeMoviedave

Wes S said:


> Absolutely. The speed and neutrality of the Pendant works extremely well with the smooth yet highly detailed Morpheus. There is a reason they are both sold by ZMF.



Thanks!  Now I need to figure out if it can drive the hekse without a huge impedance mismatch.


----------



## 28Monkey

So late to the party......but now a proud owner of a Pendant OG AND have been plowing through the 60 pages of amazing information compiled here. Thank you to all who have contibuted!!
Purchased here on the B&S board, and it now has a new home in Hawaii. 
It came with this tube set from the seller:
Input - RFT ECC81 12AT7
Power - Motorola (Golden) EL84
Rectifier - Amperex (Made in England) EZ81

It sounds really sweet. I run ROON upstream from a MacMini server --> Gungnir MB --> Lokius --> Pendant. 
I had some initial hiss and noise...not passive tube noise, and by moving stuff around and purchasing a Monster HTS on eBay (thank you Zach).....all resolved.

I've been listening to a pair of HD800s' and it is pretty awesome. (My LCD-X's.....not so much). I will be asking opinions here soon as to what one might recommend in a ZMF hp (I know that Wes S likes the Atticus and VC).

Also, I've been running up a tab on some tubes (what an addiction.....)


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

28Monkey said:


> So late to the party......but now a proud owner of a Pendant OG AND have been plowing through the 60 pages of amazing information compiled here. Thank you to all who have contibuted!!
> Purchased here on the B&S board, and it now has a new home in Hawaii.
> It came with this tube set from the seller:
> Input - RFT ECC81 12AT7
> ...


Hey Monkey.   Nice to see you on the board.   Congrats with the fantastic amp and headphones!


----------



## LeMoviedave

28Monkey said:


> So late to the party......but now a proud owner of a Pendant OG AND have been plowing through the 60 pages of amazing information compiled here. Thank you to all who have contibuted!!
> Purchased here on the B&S board, and it now has a new home in Hawaii.
> It came with this tube set from the seller:
> Input - RFT ECC81 12AT7
> ...


Tube rolling is both the biggest advantage and biggest downside of owning a tube amp.  Addiction is right!


----------



## 28Monkey

Well Jim......thanks to you for introducing me to this glorious new addiction


----------



## jonathan c

28Monkey said:


> I will be asking opinions here soon as to what one might recommend in a ZMF hp (I know that Wes S likes the Atticus and VC).


~ Any of the ZMF headphones are _highly recommended._ I own five of them: Aeolus, Atticus, Auteur (2), Eikon - although I do not own the Pendant h/p/a.
~ Aeolus/Atticus are ‘warm/punchy/fun’; Auteur/Eikon are more ‘neutral’ in balance and are not ‘clinical’. Aeolus and Auteur are open back, Atticus and Eikon are closedback.


----------



## 28Monkey

Thanks for that....probably looking at at closed back...warm/punchy/fun sounds nice.....neutral and not "clinical" might be more for my liking.

I have played around quite a bit with the parametric EQ settings on Room, using some recommended EQ's from Chrono's on headphones.com.  They really helped to take off a little bit of cymbal "shimmer" and snare drum "thwack" on the HD800's
....and made the LCD-X's much more listenable (on the Pendant
However, I would not try to tune a ZMF hp......not with the Pendant.

Earpad rolling lol??


----------



## Wes S

28Monkey said:


> So late to the party......but now a proud owner of a Pendant OG AND have been plowing through the 60 pages of amazing information compiled here. Thank you to all who have contibuted!!
> Purchased here on the B&S board, and it now has a new home in Hawaii.
> It came with this tube set from the seller:
> Input - RFT ECC81 12AT7
> ...


Welcome to the club!  As much as love my VC on the Pendant, the Atticus is where the magical synergy is at.  The Pendant is a more midrange focused amp (as all SET amps are), and the Atticus is all about the mids as well, and together they bring out the best of both.  When using my VC with the Pendant it's killer as well, but the Pendant doesn't really let you hear the VC's amazing ability to produce slamming subbass.  So, back to the Atticus and Pendant combo and the middbass slam is there in spades and the mids are to die for with amazing euphonic texture, detail and realism and the highs are smooth as butter.  Basically the Pendant and Atticus is a dream combo tuned to perfection, and this makes sense seeing as the Pendant (especially the OG version) was originally designed before the VC/VO and when the Eikon and Atticus were the King and Queen of the ZMF lineup for closebacks.

So, with that said my number one recommended ZMF headphone for the Pendant is the Atticus. 

Happy listening with that amazing amp!


----------



## bcowen

28Monkey said:


> Thanks for that....probably looking at at closed back...warm/punchy/fun sounds nice.....neutral and not "clinical" might be more for my liking.
> 
> I have played around quite a bit with the parametric EQ settings on Room, using some recommended EQ's from Chrono's on headphones.com.  They really helped to take off a little bit of cymbal "shimmer" and snare drum "thwack" on the HD800's
> ....and made the LCD-X's much more listenable (on the Pendant
> ...


Yes, actually.    I don't have the Pendant, but love my Atticus driven by a couple different OTL amps.  @jonathan c 's description of "warm/punchy/fun" nails them to a tee.  However, with the stock pads and some output tubes that produce very full bass, that "warm" could become a bit too prominent and pronounced.  Enter the hybrid Ori pads, and bingo -- all the magic, and the warmth factor back in balance.  Now some might suggest just not using those particular output tubes, but what fun would that be?


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Yes, actually.    I don't have the Pendant, but love my Atticus driven by a couple different OTL amps.  @jonathan c 's description of "warm/punchy/fun" nails them to a tee.  However, with the stock pads and some output tubes that produce very full bass, that "warm" could become a bit too prominent and pronounced.  Enter the hybrid Ori pads, and bingo -- all the magic, and the warmth factor back in balance.  Now some might suggest just not using those particular output tubes, but what fun would that be?


Man, those Ori pads are a pain in the butt to roll, so thank goodness I can dial in the sound with tubes in the Pendant.  I would much rather tube roll than pad roll, but that's just me.  I have to say pad rolling with my ZMF's is one of the most stressful things have done in this hobby.  I am always worried I am going to smash the cups together and scratch them when trying to force the pads on.  Also, the Ori pads are actually smaller than the diameter of the Atticus cups (being they were designed originally for the Ori that has smaller cups), and are one of the hardest pads to roll of all the ZMF pads.  That being said, it can done and is a little easier if you stretch the pads out before trying to put them on.  I love the idea of pad rolling with ZMF's, but hate the actually process with a passion.  The good thing about the Pendant is that you can dial in the sound so well with the 3 different tube types, that you don't even need to pad roll with the Atticus.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## 28Monkey

Wes S said:


> Welcome to the club!  As much as love my VC on the Pendant, the Atticus is where the magical synergy is at.  The Pendant is a more midrange focused amp (as all SET amps are), and the Atticus is all about the mids as well, and together they bring out the best of both.  When using my VC with the Pendant it's killer as well, but the Pendant doesn't really let you hear the VC's amazing ability to produce slamming subbass.  So, back to the Atticus and Pendant combo and the middbass slam is there in spades and the mids are to die for with amazing euphonic texture, detail and realism and the highs are smooth as butter.  Basically the Pendant and Atticus is a dream combo tuned to perfection, and this makes sense seeing as the Pendant (especially the OG version) was originally designed before the VC/VO and when the Eikon and Atticus were the King and Queen of the ZMF lineup for closebacks.
> 
> So, with that said my number one recommended ZMF headphone for the Pendant is the Atticus.
> 
> Happy listening with that amazing amp!


With the HD800s’ I have a bigger soundstage than I had before, so I am okI with drifting to the “warm/punchy/fun” part of life.

Confession…..I am an incessant reader of journals and reviews (even here….I just made my first post but joined in 2013….my bad). I like reading Herb Reichert’s Gramaphone Dreams columns. In one, he talks of using speaker amps to drive high impedance phones (btw…..not recommended).
Started me thinking…..what other phones have folks driven with the Pendant that they feel has brought them to a new and unanticipated level?


----------



## steve468

28Monkey said:


> With the HD800s’ I have a bigger soundstage than I had before, so I am okI with drifting to the “warm/punchy/fun” part of life.
> 
> Confession…..I am an incessant reader of journals and reviews (even here….I just made my first post but joined in 2013….my bad). I like reading Herb Reichert’s Gramaphone Dreams columns. In one, he talks of using speaker amps to drive high impedance phones (btw…..not recommended).
> Started me thinking…..what other phones have folks driven with the Pendant that they feel has brought them to a new and unanticipated level?


For me, out of the headphones I have (too many), the LCD4 has a very special synergy with the Pendant. Something about the Pendant really wakes up the LCD4, especially in the upper registers - the highs just sound so natural and realistic. And the bass is somehow tight, detailed, and PHAT all at the same time. Any tube roll sounds good with the LCD4, which I can't say for any of the other headphones I have. I liked the LCD4 before with other amps, but it is TRANSFORMED on the Pendant.


----------



## jonathan c

steve468 said:


> For me, out of the headphones I have (too many), the LCD4 has a very special synergy with the Pendant. Something about the Pendant really wakes up the LCD4, especially in the upper registers - the highs just sound so natural and realistic. And the bass is somehow tight, detailed, and PHAT all at the same time. Any tube roll sounds good with the LCD4, which I can't say for any of the other headphones I have. I liked the LCD4 before with other amps, but it is TRANSFORMED on the Pendant.


The nominal impedance of 200 ohms for the LCD-4 helps in making it thrive on the Pendant [8 ohms (L) and 100 ohms (H)].


----------



## 28Monkey

jonathan c said:


> The nominal impedance of 200 ohms for the LCD-4 helps in making it thrive on the Pendant [8 ohms (L) and 100 ohms (H)].


That makes sense


----------



## Wes S (Dec 23, 2021)

steve468 said:


> For me, out of the headphones I have (too many), the LCD4 has a very special synergy with the Pendant. Something about the Pendant really wakes up the LCD4, especially in the upper registers - the highs just sound so natural and realistic. And the bass is somehow tight, detailed, and PHAT all at the same time. Any tube roll sounds good with the LCD4, which I can't say for any of the other headphones I have. I liked the LCD4 before with other amps, but it is TRANSFORMED on the Pendant.


Nice!  Curious what tube combo you like best with the LCD4?  Also, which tap (8 or 100) do you like best with them?  I plan to add a planar to my collection eventually and the LCD4 is on my list.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Nice!  Curious what tube combo you like best with the LCD4?  Also, which tap (8 or 100) do you like best with them?  I plan to add a planar to my collection eventually and the LCD4 is on my list.


You will have to go second-hand…Audeze has discontinued the LCD-4 for the LCD-5…


----------



## whirlwind

jonathan c said:


> You will have to go second-hand…Audeze has discontinued the LCD-4 for the LCD-5…


 
I think they are only discontinued at this time because of not being able to get parts.  I don't believe they are permanently discontinued.

That being said, there are some nice prices on some nice 2nd hand pairs.


----------



## jonathan c

Definitely. I bought a camphor burl set from a fellow Head-Fier ~ three months ago: the LCD-4 is great with Woo Audio WA2 (OTL). I imagine that it would he happy with a Pendant.


----------



## steve468

Wes S said:


> Nice!  Curious what tube combo you like best with the LCD4?  Also, which tap (8 or 100) do you like best with them?  I plan to add a planar to my collection eventually and the LCD4 is on my list.


I have the OG Pendant with 300ohm hi tap, so I stick with the lo tap.

As for tubes, as I said, there's really no bad combo for LCD4. I've lately been running a pair of red tip Telefunken EL84s with a Mullard M8162/12at7wa and a RFT disc getter EZ81. Excellent clarity and detail with that pairing, like every frequency is boosted.

It's too bad there's not more high impedance planars - I'd be curious to see if the synergy is strictly with the LCD4 or if the magic is from impedance.


----------



## 28Monkey

steve468 said:


> For me, out of the headphones I have (too many), the LCD4 has a very special synergy with the Pendant. Something about the Pendant really wakes up the LCD4, especially in the upper registers - the highs just sound so natural and realistic. And the bass is somehow tight, detailed, and PHAT all at the same time. Any tube roll sounds good with the LCD4, which I can't say for any of the other headphones I have. I liked the LCD4 before with other amps, but it is TRANSFORMED on the Pendant.


Just curious….do you EQ the LCD-4’s, or just the stock tuning. I played around with them a bit a few years back, but had to EQ the heck out of them, so gave up on them.


----------



## 28Monkey

A little bit of static???  Just curious….nothing intolerable.  There is a little bit of a fade in/out static on the Pendant left channel (300) tap. All upstream sources have been A/B’ed and isolated out. I hear it most with the HD800’s….almost inaudible on the LCD-X’s. It is not a hum….and not a hiss (which I would characterize as persistent). It is not transformer noise. Not a cable microphonic.
Definitely livable…..you do not hear it once music is playing, and it does not affect transparency.
I just wondered why only the left channel?? There are two power tubes….is there a tube dedicated to L&R?

Only idle musings.


----------



## steve468

28Monkey said:


> Just curious….do you EQ the LCD-4’s, or just the stock tuning. I played around with them a bit a few years back, but had to EQ the heck out of them, so gave up on them.


Before the Pendant, I used the Reveal EQ, which seemed ever so slightly better to my ears. With the Pendant, that plug-in just sounds off to me. That being said, I've personally never been an EQ guy at all, and I've never had the tonality problems some (lots of?) people have with the LCD4.

As for static or noise, unfortunately, it seems it's just part of life with the Pendant, or almost any tube amp. If you read back through this thread, you'll seem some people get hum, some people get static. I have a fizzling popping that goes away when my humidifier is on(?!). I think of it like an old car, all those weird quirks just add charm. Or so I tell myself.


----------



## 28Monkey

steve468 said:


> As for static or noise, unfortunately, it seems it's just part of life with the Pendant, or almost any tube amp. If you read back through this thread, you'll seem some people get hum, some people get static. I have a fizzling popping that goes away when my humidifier is on(?!). I think of it like an old car, all those weird quirks just add charm. Or so I tell myself.


Aaahhh…..like the pops in my knee when I get out of bed in the morning


----------



## galileaux

28Monkey said:


> With the HD800s’ I have a bigger soundstage than I had before, so I am okI with drifting to the “warm/punchy/fun” part of life.
> 
> Confession…..I am an incessant reader of journals and reviews (even here….I just made my first post but joined in 2013….my bad). I like reading Herb Reichert’s Gramaphone Dreams columns. In one, he talks of using speaker amps to drive high impedance phones (btw…..not recommended).
> Started me thinking…..what other phones have folks driven with the Pendant that they feel has brought them to a new and unanticipated level?


I had the same kind of static noise on my Pendant SE! It was very noticeable on the Verite Closed and any other high sensitivity headphones, but not so much on the planars I have/had. In my case it turned out my power outlet was the culprit, and the solution was to use the Supanova power cable from iFi (it has a power noise filter). 

Wifi or cellular signals cause the same noise also. If I use my phone nearby, or if my Chord 2go is streaming via the Wifi, I can sometimes hear the static again, but much less severe.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 24, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> You will have to go second-hand…Audeze has discontinued the LCD-4 for the LCD-5…


I think the 4 is the sound I am after anyways and a second hand price is much welcomed.  I have been watching your enjoyment of the 4, and have a feeling they would be right up my alley.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 24, 2021)

Those with noise, my Pendant SE is dead silent, and it can be done.  Careful tube selection and placement of the amp and cables, can yield amazing results with reducing the noise to absolutely nothing.  It took me about 6 months and tons of tubes to get to where I have a black background, but it can be done.

Just an FYI, noise can come from any of the 3 tube types (input, power and rectifier).


----------



## nwavesailor

Holy ton of tubes, Santa! 

I'm glad your Pendant is dead silent Wes but mere mortals with perhaps only 1/2 ton of tubes  may find this daunting and live with just a little noise or hum or it is Humbug?

I was surprised to find a little bit of hum yesterday in my BB. I had foolishly swapped the rectifier _and_ input at the same time.  I found it to be the input tube and went back to my ton 'o tubes and picked another worthy input candidate!

HO-HO-HO!!!!!


----------



## Wes S (Dec 29, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> Holy ton of tubes, Santa!
> 
> I'm glad your Pendant is dead silent Wes but mere mortals with perhaps only 1/2 ton of tubes  may find this daunting and live with just a little noise or hum or it is Humbug?
> 
> ...


I hear ya on living with a bit of noise, but hearing a Pendant without any noise is a revelation and worth the effort.  The micro detail that gets masks by tube noise is quite stunning, and you don't know the amp is capable of such performance until you hear it with quiet tubes.  A quiet Pendant is on another level of performance, and I do have a solution for finding quiet tubes. . .buy them from here - http://vintagetubeservices.com/

Merry Christmas, and quiet tubes for you all!


----------



## Wes S (Dec 24, 2021)

Just to elaborate on finding quiet tubes. . .Ebay is full of crappy tubes.  If you go that route just get ready to sift through a bunch to find a quiet one.  I suggest Upscale Audio and Vintage Tube Services.  Upscale is down to limited stock, but they do have quiet tubes.  Vintage Tube Services is on another level, and Andy Bowman sells nothing but the best.  He has different levels of quiet depending on your system, and test more rigorously than any other dealer out there for noise.

Again, it's a revelation to hear a quiet Pendant and the performance is on another level with micro detail and little nuances coming through I did not know the amp was capable of producing.  There is much more "Thereness" with a quiet amp.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 24, 2021)

steve468 said:


> I have the OG Pendant with 300ohm hi tap, so I stick with the lo tap.
> 
> As for tubes, as I said, there's really no bad combo for LCD4. I've lately been running a pair of red tip Telefunken EL84s with a Mullard M8162/12at7wa and a RFT disc getter EZ81. Excellent clarity and detail with that pairing, like every frequency is boosted.
> 
> It's too bad there's not more high impedance planars - I'd be curious to see if the synergy is strictly with the LCD4 or if the magic is from impedance.


Interesting tube combo, and thanks for sharing.  I always find it fascinating to see what combo everyone uses, as there are so many choices with the 3 tube types.  Knowing the "house sounds" of those tubes, I could see them working very well together, and that is quite a cool blend I will have to try.  The neutral Tele blended with the warmer Mullard and then topped off with the exciting RFT, has got to be a great sounding combo.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Welcome to the club!  As much as love my VC on the Pendant, the Atticus is where the magical synergy is at.  The Pendant is a more midrange focused amp (as all SET amps are), and the Atticus is all about the mids as well, and together they bring out the best of both.  When using my VC with the Pendant it's killer as well, but the Pendant doesn't really let you hear the VC's amazing ability to produce slamming subbass.  So, back to the Atticus and Pendant combo and the middbass slam is there in spades and the mids are to die for with amazing euphonic texture, detail and realism and the highs are smooth as butter.  Basically the Pendant and Atticus is a dream combo tuned to perfection, and this makes sense seeing as the Pendant (especially the OG version) was originally designed before the VC/VO and when the Eikon and Atticus were the King and Queen of the ZMF lineup for closebacks.
> 
> So, with that said my number one recommended ZMF headphone for the Pendant is the Atticus.
> 
> Happy listening with that amazing amp!


What amp do you prefer for your VC?  I've been eyeing the Forge.  Used ones are starting to pop up.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Just to elaborate on finding quiet tubes. . .Ebay is full of crappy tubes.  If you go that route just get ready to sift through a bunch to find a quiet one.  I suggest Upscale Audio and Vintage Tube Services.  Upscale is down to limited stock, but they do have quiet tubes.  Vintage Tube Services is on another level, and Andy Bowman sells nothing but the best.  He has different levels of quiet depending on your system, and test more rigorously than any other dealer out there for noise.
> 
> Again, it's a revelation to hear a quiet Pendant and the performance is on another level with micro detail and little nuances coming through I did not know the amp was capable of producing.  There is much more "Thereness" with a quiet amp.


I finally found that quiet tube combo and it is amazing!  My $8 Funkwerk is the most quiet input tube I have.  I've found more, but all in the $50 dollar range, which still isn't bad.  I hit the jack pot with this one though.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Just to elaborate on finding quiet tubes. . .Ebay is full of crappy tubes.  If you go that route just get ready to sift through a bunch to find a quiet one.  I suggest Upscale Audio and Vintage Tube Services.  Upscale is down to limited stock, but they do have quiet tubes.  Vintage Tube Services is on another level, and Andy Bowman sells nothing but the best.  He has different levels of quiet depending on your system, and test more rigorously than any other dealer out there for noise.
> 
> Again, it's a revelation to hear a quiet Pendant and the performance is on another level with micro detail and little nuances coming through I did not know the amp was capable of producing.  There is much more "Thereness" with a quiet amp.


Andy is still around?  How cool!  Haven't bought anything from him in a long time, but my experience mimics yours in that his testing and screening is second to none.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 24, 2021)

4LoveOfSound said:


> What amp do you prefer for your VC?  I've been eyeing the Forge.  Used ones are starting to pop up.


The Rogue RH-5 (Hybrid that uses 2 12AU7's) and it's deep reaching subbass, huge stage presentation and dead neutral sound is a match made in heaven with the VC, and is what amp my VC stays connected to 99% of the time these days.  My Atticus stays hooked up to my Pendant SE and that combo has it's own unique mid focused fast and impactful sound that is just fun as heck with Folk, Acoustic, Blues and Bluegrass.  I love both amp and headphone combos equally for different reasons.

I have not read much on the subject of the VC and Forge pairing, but I imagine it could be epic with the right tube combo.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> The Rogue RH-5 (Hybrid that uses 2 12AU7's) and it's deep reaching subbass, huge stage presentation and dead neutral sound is a match made in heaven with the VC, and is what amp my VC stays connected to 99% of the time these days.  My Atticus stays hooked up to my Pendant SE and that combo has it's own unique mid focused fast and impactful sound that is just fun as heck with Folk, Acoustic, Blues and Bluegrass.  I love both amp and headphone combos equally for different reasons.
> 
> I have not read much on the subject of the VC and Forge pairing, but I imagine it could be epic with the right tube combo.


Looks like the Rogue may be my next purchase.  My Pendant is connected to my Auteurs full time right now.   Still waiting for the Blackwood VCs


----------



## QuantumQ

steve468 said:


> Before the Pendant, I used the Reveal EQ, which seemed ever so slightly better to my ears. With the Pendant, that plug-in just sounds off to me. That being said, I've personally never been an EQ guy at all, and I've never had the tonality problems some (lots of?) people have with the LCD4.
> 
> As for static or noise, unfortunately, it seems it's just part of life with the Pendant, or almost any tube amp. If you read back through this thread, you'll seem some people get hum, some people get static. I have a fizzling popping that goes away when my humidifier is on(?!). I think of it like an old car, all those weird quirks just add charm. Or so I tell myself.


I’ve not had an issue with noise in my SE, as long as my phone isn’t nearby and the tubes are in good shape, but hum has been crippling. 

While I have no issues with any other piece of equipment, I’ve spent the year, going to very expensive lengths to curb the problem, including isolating the circuit, purchasing a number of gizmos like, dc eliminators, very pricey balanced transformer conditioners, units addressing ground, but to no avail.  In fact, I’ve spent much more than the cost of the amp. I even took it everything to my facility that already has clean power, but the hum is still consistent. 

I’ll be waiting until after the holidays to try yet again to get Justin’s attention to help find a solve with my unit.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Transformer hum audible near the amp or hum through the headphones?  I actually have both.  I hear minor transformer hum when I sit near the amp, but nothing loud enough to be annoying.  I also have a very minor hum through my VCs.  Again, not loud enough to be a problem, only audible between tracks.


----------



## QuantumQ

Both. Wouldn’t mind so much if it were only with my head near the amp as it sits a good 5 feet away from me.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Oh ok.  I can feel your frustration.  When I first got mine, I was frustrated for a while with loud hum.  I had bought a couple different power conditioners to no avail.  Nothing really helped.  As more hours were spent using the amp, my hum kept getting better.  Now it's not an issue.  I wish I had the answer for you.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

4LoveOfSound said:


> Oh ok.  I can feel your frustration.  When I first got mine, I was frustrated for a while with loud hum.  I had bought a couple different power conditioners to no avail.  Nothing really helped.  As more hours were spent using the amp, my hum kept getting better.  Now it's not an issue.  I wish I had the answer for you.


In other words, you just got used to it?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

No, the hum did decrease.  Originally I could hear it during soft passages while music was playing and it was quite annoying.  Now, it's only audible when no music is playing.  Also, I don't hear it using my Ether CX, Auteur or Aeolus nor my previous RAD-0.  It's just with the VCs and on High Z.  I've read about headphones with beryllium drivers picking up noise other headphones don't.  The external hum was audible like in @QuantumQ's case from 5' or so away.  Now I can hear it if I'm sitting at the desk the amp is on, but not from 5" away.  The level of hum I have now, I just got used to and don't really notice it anymore.  Maybe its RF related.  The amp sits on my desk with my laptop using WiFi and Bluetooth.  Maybe in my next house I'll get my dedicated music listening room and I can spread out my gear.  Until then, my headphone gear is stuck on my desk in a very small (like 5'x 8') office.


----------



## 28Monkey

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> In other words, you just got used to it?


LOL


----------



## jonathan c (Dec 25, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> In other words, you just got used to it?


Not exactly….I listened / tried to listen to a DarkVoice….its hum makes the Pendant silent by comparison….🤪


----------



## QuantumQ

4LoveOfSound said:


> M The external hum was audible like in @QuantumQ's case from 5' or so away.  Now I can hear it if I'm sitting at the desk the amp is on, but not from 5" away.  The level of hum I have now, I just got used to and don't really notice it anymore.


Just to be clear, I was saying that hearing only the physical hum wouldn’t be so bad, considering my proximity. In fact, my VC just arrived, which would have even further lessened any physical distraction. However, the hum coming through my VO, and now my VC, is not something that is easily ignorable. Plugging in my LCD-X is just a no go.
I’ve reread every thread on every forum, and have tried contacting, but what I find puzzling is why some report no hum at all.

Anyway, appreciate your take. Hope your holidays are going well. I have one more day off, then it’s back to an overwhelming mountain of work.  Lol.


----------



## 28Monkey

Sorry you have to go back to a mountain of work.

Curious……are all of your hum issues on the 300 ohm tap?


----------



## QuantumQ

28Monkey said:


> Sorry you have to go back to a mountain of work.
> 
> Curious……are all of your hum issues on the 300 ohm tap?


Both taps. One louder than the other, obviously.


----------



## 28Monkey

QuantumQ said:


> Both taps. One louder than the other, obviously.


I have slowly been trying to isolate trace static on the Hi-tap through the HD800s’.  Tubes maybe yes….put in a matched pair of Amperex EL84’s I received from Brent Jessee last night and have letting them get used to living in Hawaii now . 
Actually, I thought they sounded a little “thin” last night but fuller today. Rogue static diminished.
However, I think I found another culprit…..my Apple watch (GPS + cellular). Turned it off….and left my phone outside. No noise at all.

Is this a possibility?


----------



## bcowen

28Monkey said:


> I have slowly been trying to isolate trace static on the Hi-tap through the HD800s’.  Tubes maybe yes….put in a matched pair of Amperex EL84’s I received from Brent Jessee last night and have letting them get used to living in Hawaii now .
> Actually, I thought they sounded a little “thin” last night but fuller today. Rogue static diminished.
> However, I think I found another culprit…..my Apple watch (GPS + cellular). Turned it off….and left my phone outside. No noise at all.
> 
> Is this a possibility?


Yes, it sure is a possibility.  You can test this further by (temporarily) wrapping a sheet of aluminum foil over the top of the amp...tubes and all.  Obviously you don't want to leave it like that for more than a few minutes, but if you're getting some static or crackling sounds try it when it happens and see if the noise quits.  If it does, it's a good indication of RFI.  Could be your watch or phone, but could be something else nearby too.


----------



## jonathan c

28Monkey said:


> I have slowly been trying to isolate trace static on the Hi-tap through the HD800s’.  Tubes maybe yes….put in a matched pair of Amperex EL84’s I received from Brent Jessee last night and have letting them get used to living in Hawaii now .
> Actually, I thought they sounded a little “thin” last night but fuller today. Rogue static diminished.
> However, I think I found another culprit…..my Apple watch (GPS + cellular). Turned it off….and left my phone outside. No noise at all.
> 
> Is this a possibility?


Do you have your non-audio gear plugged in the same circuit as ( or plugged in close to) your audio gear?


----------



## 28Monkey

jonathan c said:


> Do you have your non-audio gear plugged in the same circuit as ( or plugged in close to) your audio gear?


I have some stuff plugged into the same panel breaker/wall plugs. Computer/server/cable modem and router, gigabit switches…the wall warts plug into a simple surge protector into a wall plug. Computer and server, along with my analog stereo gear plug into a Monster HTS protector and into the wall.
Pendant is plugged by itself into another Monster HTS and into the wall.

So yes…..a ton of stuff  

Any thoughts or guidance?


----------



## jonathan c (Dec 30, 2021)

28Monkey said:


> I have some stuff plugged into the same panel breaker/wall plugs. Computer/server/cable modem and router, gigabit switches…the wall warts plug into a simple surge protector into a wall plug. Computer and server, along with my analog stereo gear plug into a Monster HTS protector and into the wall.
> Pendant is plugged by itself into another Monster HTS and into the wall.
> 
> So yes…..a ton of stuff
> ...


Yes. Audio gear and non-audio* gear should be powered by different circuits so as to eliminate various forms of interference. If possible, use wall plugs in separate rooms. Please don’t let audio/non-audio* gear share outlets.
* Non-audio: cell phone charger, wireless internet router, cable modem, computer, printer. Each is a potential source of interference.


----------



## 28Monkey

Well……that’s a challenge, but great guidance. I really appreciate it.

After a recent re-wire, everything in that room (4 wall plugs) are on a separate 20A breaker.  At this point, I can start isolating audio gear and computer et al to different plugs.

Why a 20A beaker some ask?  For my espresso machine lol.  But I am pretty sure it’s analog.


----------



## bcowen (Dec 30, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Yes. Audio gear and non-audio* gear should be powered by different circuits so as to eliminate various forms of interference. If possible, use wall plugs in separate rooms. Please don’t let audio/non-audio* gear share outlets.
> * Non-audio: cell phone charger, wireless internet router, cable modem, computer, printer. Each is a potential source of interference.


Totally agree.  SMPS's (Switched Mode Power Supplies) are the devil incarnate when it comes to audio equipment. This includes most wal-warts**, computer power supplies (desktop and laptop), printers, etc.  They put a lot of noisy garbage right back into the AC line, and if that same circuit is powering your audio gear it's going to be ridden with noise.  The Monster HTS will help some, but the more noise that exists the less effective ANY filter will be at scrubbing it all away.

**Schiit Audio wal-warts are different as they are merely step down transformers (the DC conversion is done inside the component). A step-down transformer is not evil in and of itself.


----------



## bcowen

28Monkey said:


> Well……that’s a challenge, but great guidance. I really appreciate it.
> 
> After a recent re-wire, everything in that room (4 wall plugs) are on a separate 20A breaker.  At this point, I can start isolating audio gear and computer et al to different plugs.
> 
> *Why a 20A beaker some ask?  For my espresso machine lol.  But I am pretty sure it’s analog.*


ROFL!

Digital coffee can be very fatiguing.


----------



## 28Monkey

After weeks of testing/rolling, I have a combination of tubes that are rich and detailed and more importantly to me, a very quiet noise floor…..not black, but VERY dark grey.

Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
Amperex “Made in England”  (with a graphic of a man playing a fife??) EZ81 (rectifier)

It seems that a low level static from my left channel was resolved when I swapped out the input tube (RFT ECC81:12AT7) for the Brimar. I have ordered another one to see…..but who knows, it’s coming from Russia. 🤷🏼‍♂️
RF noise wasn’t as much of a culprit as I thought.

Pretty happy right now…..especially since a pair of Aeolus LTD Ziricote showed up.


----------



## 28Monkey

28Monkey said:


> After weeks of testing/rolling, I have a combination of tubes that are rich and detailed and more importantly to me, a very quiet noise floor…..not black, but VERY dark grey.
> 
> Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
> Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
> ...


An addendum to my previous post. 
Decades ago when I used to roll tubes into tubes amps….tube amps that were kits that I built or bought, I had forgotten what noise floor was. I was using 2-10 (massive) watt amps with turntables playing “well used” vinyl favorites over very efficient horn speakers. There was always hiss, pops and scratches, and I just cranked up the volume.
Now, getting back into headphones, we are encapsulated in the sound. All of my music these days are “files” on a server, or hi-res, streaming through DAC’s. We are more discerning?
Anyways, a while back in this thread @Wes S and others were mentioning noise floor and how it relates to the final musical fidelity. It took me a few weeks to get it….rolling tubes 1) changed the characteristics of the sound, but also,  2) reduced the noise floor which really allowed the phones I am using to SHINE.
Obvious to many…..took me a bit to grasp it. So thanks 🤙🏼


----------



## jonathan c

28Monkey said:


> After weeks of testing/rolling, I have a combination of tubes that are rich and detailed and more importantly to me, a very quiet noise floor…..not black, but VERY dark grey.
> 
> Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
> Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
> ...


I love the Footscrays…my second favourite 12AT7 type tube…(to the RFT ECC81 foil getter). If you look at the “Schiit Mjolnir II” threads, 2021 contained the ‘summer of Footscray’….T-shirts included…🤪


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Sooo for the past few days, I've been cheating on my beloved Pendant SE.  I know, I. know, how could I?  Well, I blame @Wes S lol   Wes turned me on to the Rogue Audio RH-5 tube hybrid amp, which I bought, and it's been getting all my attention since it arrived last Friday.  An excellent amp!  Well, today I decided to give the Pendant some love and I was not disappointed!  What a beautiful sounding amp!  The detailed holographic presentation just sucked me back in.  Ahhhhhhh


----------



## 28Monkey (Jan 5, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Sooo for the past few days, I've been cheating on my beloved Pendant SE.  I know, I. know, how could I?  Well, I blame @Wes S lol   Wes turned me on to the Rogue Audio RH-5 tube hybrid amp, which I bought, and it's been getting all my attention since it arrived last Friday.  An excellent amp!  Well, today I decided to give the Pendant some love and I was not disappointed!  What a beautiful sounding amp!  The detailed holographic presentation just sucked me back in.  Ahhhhhhh


LOL….as I play the Traveling Wilburys “End of the Line” at full volume….and realize, it’s never TEOTL


----------



## Wes S (Jan 6, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Sooo for the past few days, I've been cheating on my beloved Pendant SE.  I know, I. know, how could I?  Well, I blame @Wes S lol   Wes turned me on to the Rogue Audio RH-5 tube hybrid amp, which I bought, and it's been getting all my attention since it arrived last Friday.  An excellent amp!  Well, today I decided to give the Pendant some love and I was not disappointed!  What a beautiful sounding amp!  The detailed holographic presentation just sucked me back in.  Ahhhhhhh


Having both amps and jumping back and forth between the two, always makes me appreciate what each of them brings to the table.  It's like having 2 different flavors of awesome and it's really a treat owning both.  Listening with the Pendant is such an engaging experience, and it never let's me down with it's mid focused, impactful and immediate sound.  Long live both amps!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Having both amps and jumping back and forth between the two, always makes me appreciate what each of them brings to the table.


Indeed! I’ll say it again: different amps/headphones = different seats/tables at the musical event. Long live variety! 😜


----------



## 28Monkey

A little tube advice…..here is my current line up and I like it:
Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
Amperex EZ81 (rectifier)

However, I find that this combination has a slight sibilance….you really hear the “s’s”, especially on female vocals. Noticeable on the Aeolus, really noticeable on the HD800s’. I can EQ it mostly out…but what tubes does one look at to resolve?

I know….first world problem, but curious.


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## prosnowboarder

I ordered the 12AT7, Brimar, 1B7, Footscray February 1957 Production as it was listed on the site and I can't wait for it to get here from England. It was the only one left on mullard magic website.
Anyway it didn't list the cv4033 part in the description...  Is it for sure the tube you all are referring to?


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## 28Monkey (Jan 8, 2022)

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use

I purchased this one…..some sites seem to list more information than others.


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## bcowen (Jan 8, 2022)

prosnowboarder said:


> I ordered the 12AT7, Brimar, 1B7, Footscray February 1957 Production as it was listed on the site and I can't wait for it to get here from England. It was the only one left on mullard magic website.
> Anyway it didn't list the cv4033 part in the description...  Is it for sure the tube you all are referring to?


The CV4033 is a flying lead tube.  Pulse Tube Store attaches a 9-pin base to it so that it plugs into a noval socket like any regular 9-pin tube.  Unless the vendor you bought from has similar capabilities for mounting bases, it's likely that you _didn't _get a CV4033 and probably a straight-up 12AT7.  So the question is:  if that is in fact what you get, and seeing that it came from the same manufacturing plant during the same year, will it sound any different than the CV4033 Pulse is selling?  Since I don't have both I obviously can't answer that definitively, but it would be logical to assume that the working elements of the tube are the same with only the base/termination differing, so it's likely they will sound far more alike (if not identical) than different.  Just my $0.02...


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## robo24 (Jan 9, 2022)

Those more familiar than I am with different tubes, such as @Wes S , since I’ve been loving the various Brimar / Footscray tubes for the 12AU/T/X7 socket, I’m curious if there are any recommended Brimar EL84 tubes out there and if they have a similar sound? Thanks!


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## 28Monkey

28Monkey said:


> A little tube advice…..here is my current line up and I like it:
> Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
> Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
> Amperex EZ81 (rectifier)
> ...


I have been very lucky 🍀 lately. A few days ago I received this rectifier tube *RFT (Funkwerk ERFURT) EZ81 6CA4 (1965) NOS*

Somehow, I still think that changes when you roll will be subtle.....not my experience at all. This tube made an amazing difference. Tamped down on any sibilance. Dead quiet......and increased the soundstage dramatically. Still a little bit stunned by the change. Really lit up my Aeolus. Not gonna tinker any more....well, not right away


----------



## jonathan c

28Monkey said:


> I have been very lucky 🍀 lately. A few days ago I received this rectifier tube *RFT (Funkwerk ERFURT) EZ81 6CA4 (1965) NOS*
> 
> Somehow, I still think that changes when you roll will be subtle.....not my experience at all. This tube made an amazing difference. Tamped down on any sibilance. Dead quiet......and increased the soundstage dramatically. Still a little bit stunned by the change. Really lit up my Aeolus. Not gonna tinker any more....well, not right away


I use RFT EZ81 _foil getter_ rectifier tubes in the Woo WA2. Fantastic !! [I have felt that since the rectifier tube is at the ‘start’ of the amp circuit and is integral to the AC—>DC conversion, the rectifier tube directly affects the performance of any tubes ‘further down’ the amp circuit.]


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## Wes S (Jan 10, 2022)

robo24 said:


> Those more familiar than I am with different tubes, such as @Wes S , since I’ve been loving the various Brimar / Footscray tubes for the 12AU/T/X7 socket, I’m curious if there are any recommended Brimar EL84 tubes out there and if they have a similar sound? Thanks!


I have seen some Brimar EL84's in the wild, but all the one's I have seen are latter production from the Rochester factory.  I personally have never been a fan of the Rochester made Brimars (too warm & smooth overall) so I have never tried their EL84's, however if I ever find (I have been hunting for a while) some Footscray made EL84's I will buy them in a hearbeat.


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## Wes S (Jan 10, 2022)

28Monkey said:


> A little tube advice…..here is my current line up and I like it:
> Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
> Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
> Amperex EZ81 (rectifier)
> ...


A tube with a similar sound to the CV4033, but also a bit smoother and warmer that might help with the sibilance is the Brimar CV4034.  

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles


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## 28Monkey

28Monkey said:


> A little tube advice…..here is my current line up and I like it:
> Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
> Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
> Amperex EZ81 (rectifier)
> ...





Wes S said:


> A tube with a similar sound to the CV4033, but also a bit smoother and warmer that might help with the sibilance is the Brimar CV4034.
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles


Thanks @Wes S. What is the difference between the 12ax/at/au family of tubes…simply gain? Or is that too simplistic?


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## Wes S (Jan 12, 2022)

28Monkey said:


> Thanks @Wes S. What is the difference between the 12ax/at/au family of tubes…simply gain? Or is that too simplistic?


No prob.  I have noticed using the Pendant,  that with the change in gain there is a change in the soundstage as well, as in the 12AU7 is a bit more open, and as you go up in gain to the 12AT7 and then 12AX7 the sound becomes more forward/intimate.


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## jonathan c (Jan 11, 2022)

Wes S said:


> No prob.  I have noticed that with the change in gain there is a change in the soundstage as well, as in the 12AU7 is a bit more open, and as you go up in gain to the 12AT7 and then 12AX7 the sound becomes more forward/intimate.


I would add that, _to me, _there is a correlation within the 12A#7 family between airiness / openness / soundstage and whether the tube is ‘triple mica’ versus ‘double mica’.


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## 28Monkey

Thanks @Wes S and @jonathan c …..comments VERY much appreciated. 
Lots of blind alleys in this hobby. Guidance is valuable.


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## Wes S

Been doing some rectifier rolling the last couple of days and thought I would share my findings.  I have my power tubes and driver tube dialed in with some Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters (earliest version) and a made in Footscray Brimar CV491 Long Plate D Getter, and of all the power and driver tubes I have rolled I am getting the most "lifelike" sound with this combo.  In fact, those power tubes and driver tube are so much better than all my other tubes at sounding "real", that they are not leaving the amp until they die.  So, this leaves the rectifier and having been rolling between a Mullard EZ81 Square Getter (earliest version with wrinkled glass from Blackburn 54'), Funkwerk Erfurt (RFT) EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter, Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter, Raytheon EZ81 Welded Plate Triple Mica Square Getter (made in Japan), and last but most definitely not least the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter, and there is a clearly one that has risen above the pack.  The G.E.C. U709 is the winner and is pure freaking magic in the Pendant, and what it does to the soundstage and detail is stunning compared to the other tubes.  Rolling in the U709 opens up the stage and it becomes much more holographic and immersive, and the added detail is really something special.  The imaging and bass tightens up as well,  and there is warmth but it never sounds bloated or overdone.  Rolling in the U709 takes the amp to another level, and if you can find one and afford it, I say buy it without hesitation.   

Happy hunting, rolling, and listening!


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## Wes S (Jan 13, 2022)

Yesterday, I hooked up my VC for the first time in a long while to my Pendant SE and I had forgotten how magical this pairing is.

As much as I love the Atticus and Pendant SE pairing, the VC pairing is just as magical (actually more magical, but don't let my Atty's know ). The Pendant pushes the mids forward on the VC, and they become so detailed, euphoric and textured it's awesome, and combined with the speed/immediacy, impact and *very *holographic soundstage it's a breathtaking experience with well recorded Folk, Jazz or anything Acoustic.


----------



## hikaru12

Has anyone compared the Pendant to the Elekit TU8600? By the time you do the transformer and cap upgrades you're probably around the $2.5K asking price of the Pendant so curious on stuff like detail, soundstage, etc.


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## Noodlz

ah man. whew i finally made it through all 65 pages. i dont remember the last time i did this within 3 days lol. I just got my pendant OG on monday and god i love this amp. at first it underwelming and everything was super dead sounding and congested. I had put in the stock JJs and im assuming these tubes weren't run much and the amp wasn't run much either, or it had just not been run for a bit, or the fact i listened during mid day and didn't give it any time to warm up.

In anycase, put on the better tubes (RFT EZ81 notsurewhatyear, TungSol EL84 new production, Brimar 4068, made-in-england BVA?) and let it run for like 2 hours and oh man this thing is the best amp ive had. Period. Superior clarity and punch across the board and a good tier above everything else i've owned thus far. It does come with some caveats though.

Issue #1 - minor - this thing sounds closer to a solid state, like an incredibly good and natural sweet sounding one. But it doesnt' have the liquid / syrup / caramel / bloom flavor that a tube amp would have. Compared to my WA6SE which i thought sounded pretty solid state already, that thing now sounds very tube-y. I wonder now if i can find a tube combo to give it that bllom kinda flavor, especially to give sorta a "breath" to the vocals like the woo WA6SE and other tube amps.

Issue #2 - Noise. ah man. this thing is so close to perfect, except for this. and obviously people have noted this, but i'll share my experience so far and hopefully this helps someone else too. So the stock JJs are definitely noisy, and the tubes that im rolling now are better, but still not perfect. Here are my findings so far:

As time went on / continued use of the amp, the noise has significantly reduced, and im hoping it continues to get less and less. i had the same thing with my WA6SE. the tone of the hum in the pendant is very very similar if not the same as the WA6SE and i'm pretty positive this is the transformer
To add to that, i've tested this amp with EVERYTHING turned off in the room except the amp, and kept phones away, and loaded music on a dap (Shanling M6 AKM version) and played to it. so this hum is consistent no matter the volume, sounds just like the transformer sound when you get close to the amp. With everything back on the hum volume is consistent so i know its not my environment. (im using Triplite isobars for power)
With better tubes, the low Z is practically silent with sennheiser hd650/580, the high Z tap still has that transformer hum
HOWEVER. on my 3 planars, they are practically silent on high Z as well. (LCD 2.1, Aeon Flow Open, HE5XX)
Note: strangely, the AFO sounds louder out of the Low Z, and actually much better here.
Also, i heard that upgrading the Choke is supposed to help out a lot with the noise, would need to send this baby back to justin if thats what i decide to do. 

So in summary, this thing is perfect for planar headphones, but has issues running dynamic headphones on high Z if you're sensitive to noise and get annoyed hearing that hum like me. BUT, you could just run low Z for the dynamic headphones and it sounds fantastic still. it does bring more dynamics and more punch on the High Z, and everything sounds a bit more present/forward.

Which is now why i'm out there hunting for dead-silent tubes to see if i can get it to where i want it to be. I've got a pair of RCA 7186 EL84's on the way, as well as the 57' footscray from pulse, and some RTF ECC81 (o-getters tho), EZ81, and EL84s from the ebay delax777mechanics guy. Also now looking

@Wes S @jonathan c @steve468 @4LoveOfSound if you have any reccos on tubes that would really give some fluidity / liquidness / bloom that would also be dead silent, that waould be amaaazing. I'm currently browsing VintageTubeServices since that's apparently the secret to silent tubes. Trying to score a set of totally silent tubes as my reference point before i roll more from ebay

And now back (focusing on) the music.


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## Wes S (Jan 15, 2022)

Noodlz said:


> ah man. whew i finally made it through all 65 pages. i dont remember the last time i did this within 3 days lol. I just got my pendant OG on monday and god i love this amp. at first it underwelming and everything was super dead sounding and congested. I had put in the stock JJs and im assuming these tubes weren't run much and the amp wasn't run much either, or it had just not been run for a bit, or the fact i listened during mid day and didn't give it any time to warm up.
> 
> In anycase, put on the better tubes (RFT EZ81 notsurewhatyear, TungSol EL84 new production, Brimar 4068, made-in-england BVA?) and let it run for like 2 hours and oh man this thing is the best amp ive had. Period. Superior clarity and punch across the board and a good tier above everything else i've owned thus far. It does come with some caveats though.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club!  It can be a bit challenging at first, but sounds like you are on the right track to getting your amp quieter.

I do have one driver tube to suggest for a more liquid smooth and a bit bloomier sound and it's the Brimar CV4034.  https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles

Also, for power tubes you might look for some Mullard EL84 with a square getter and acid etched code RX1 from Blackburn.  These are the most liquid smooth power tubes I have been able to find.  I bet Andy of Vintage Tube Services might have a pair or even Brent Jesse (I don't use Brent due to my own past experiences with him trying to sell me tubes as something they were not, I know my tubes and the differences between a National Union Grey Glass and RCA Grey Glass 6SN7 and they are not the same tube internally and sonically , but others have had success with him and he has a return policy). Here are some that were recently sold on ebay just for reference. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Match...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

You can slow down and take a bit of the speed/bite down with the tubes above and add a bit a bloom, but this amp will never becomes slow or tubey.

Happy Hunting, Rolling, and Listening!


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## Wes S (Jan 15, 2022)

So, I have a confession to make and looks like I have to eat my own words once again. . . I rolled out the Brimar CV491 driver tube the other day that I said I wasn't ever going to pull until it's dead, and rolled in the once very famous Footscray Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter 57'.  The CV4033 is much more forward in the mids and especially vocals compared the the CV491 and it's actually the perfect tube for my VC.  Yep, my Atticus are still riding the bench at the moment, and my VC's are absolutely stunning with the CV4033 in the Pendant.

The amp noise (hum) became slightly noticeable with the CV4033, but the sound is so insanely good that I don't care about a little bit of noise.  Also, I can't hear the noise when the music is playing anyway.  Eating my own words once again, with this one.   

So after eating my words, I say don't fret if you can't get rid of all the noise.  It's just the nature of the beast with some tubes, and if you are happy with the sound just keep enjoying it.


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## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> So, I have a confession to make and looks like I have to eat my own words once again. . . I rolled out the Brimar CV491 driver tube the other day that I said I wasn't ever going to pull until it's dead, and rolled in the once very famous Footscray Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter 57'.  The CV4033 is much more forward in the mids and especially vocals compared the the CV491 and it's actually the perfect tube for my VC.  Yep, my Atticus are still riding the bench at the moment, and my VC's are absolutely stunning with the CV4033 in the Pendant.
> 
> The amp noise (hum) became slightly noticeable with the CV4033, but the sound is so insanely good that I don't care about a little bit of noise.  Also, I can't hear the noise when the music is playing anyway.  Eating my own words once again, with this one.
> 
> So after eating my words, I say don't fret if you can't get rid of all the noise.  It's just the nature of the beast with some tubes, and if you are happy with the sound just keep enjoying it.


😜…be careful about eating your words…with your level of enthusiasm, your words are high in calories…🤣…long live tube rolling!


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## Noodlz (Jan 16, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Welcome to the club!  It can be a bit challenging at first, but sounds like you are on the right track to getting your amp quieter.
> 
> I do have one driver tube to suggest for a more liquid smooth and a bit bloomier sound and it's the Brimar CV4034.  https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles
> 
> ...



awesome thanks! Will need to hunt down the rx1 mullard el84 tubes. Bought a bunch of things already so might need to wait Lol. Going down the tube rabbit hole can add up. Side note does anyone use the tube monger socket savers? Does it help with noise and also is it even necessary? I imagine I’d need to get 4. it may also look kinda ugly…


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## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> 😜…be careful about eating your words…with your level of enthusiasm, your words are high in calories…🤣…long live tube rolling!


🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## 28Monkey

Due to everyone's help and direction....I have been slowly whittling down noise on the OG. @Wes S with tube selections and @jonathan c and  @bcowen with recs on home A/C plug and circuit selection. I am happily at a tube mix that is quiet.....not black like some SS amps can be, but darn close (think new moon but some stars in the sky). 
A friend on the East Coast is a big fan of Zu Audio loudspeakers, but also their cables. Swears by their power cables on his big boy tube amps.
I went ahead and ordered a Zu Mission power cable (https://www.zuaudio.com/power-cable/mission-power-ii). In their literature they recommend a 300 hour burn-in.....I am @ 50 hours in, and it is making an audible difference (compared to stock cabling).
I have A/B'ed the stock cable and the Zu.  First of.... the Zu is 98% dead quiet with my most sensitive cans (HD800S) on the High Z with volume at 12:00 (no music of course). 
I have two reference tracks I like to use (due to familiarity) to play with on various amps and two-channel systems: Khruangbin --> Late Night Tales --> Still You and Steely Dan --> Gaucho --> Gaucho. Decided difference in upper registers....more shimmer on Jeff Porcano's cymbals and on the spoken/murmured background on Still You.
Pretty happy.....looking forward to the next 100 hours.


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## Noodlz

intriguing. i have morrow audio power cables myself, which ive used for all my amps for a while and they're definitely better than the stock cables. Does your hum vary based on volume? I wonder if it'll make a difference in my system since my hum is there no matter what the volume setting is. Also to note, im pretty sure mine is a 60hz hum and not a 120hz one, which would suggest that it's either the tubes (most likely), or maybe just the sound of the transformers? it is definitely getting more and more quiet compared to when first received it earlier this week.


----------



## bcowen

Noodlz said:


> intriguing. i have morrow audio power cables myself, which ive used for all my amps for a while and they're definitely better than the stock cables. Does your hum vary based on volume? I wonder if it'll make a difference in my system since my hum is there no matter what the volume setting is. Also to note, im pretty sure mine is a 60hz hum and not a 120hz one, which would suggest that it's either the tubes (most likely), or maybe just the sound of the transformers? it is definitely getting more and more quiet compared to when first received it earlier this week.


A true 60hZ hum could also be caused by a ground loop.  Do you have all your components plugged into one outlet (or into a power strip / conditioner that is fed by one outlet)?


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## 28Monkey

Noodlz said:


> intriguing. i have morrow audio power cables myself, which ive used for all my amps for a while and they're definitely better than the stock cables. Does your hum vary based on volume? I wonder if it'll make a difference in my system since my hum is there no matter what the volume setting is. Also to note, im pretty sure mine is a 60hz hum and not a 120hz one, which would suggest that it's either the tubes (most likely), or maybe just the sound of the transformers? it is definitely getting more and more quiet compared to when first received it earlier this week.


I have gone through many iterations of hum (transformer), static (RF?) and hiss (tubes). All more or less resolved. 
What I was hearing (?) was not a truly dark background. It is much better than it was and the only substitution has been the Zu.


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## jonathan c (Jan 16, 2022)

Noodlz said:


> intriguing. i have morrow audio power cables myself, which ive used for all my amps for a while and they're definitely better than the stock cables. Does your hum vary based on volume? I wonder if it'll make a difference in my system since my hum is there no matter what the volume setting is. Also to note, im pretty sure mine is a 60hz hum and not a 120hz one, which would suggest that it's either the tubes (most likely), or maybe just the sound of the transformers? it is definitely getting more and more quiet compared to when first received it earlier this week.


I use the Morrow Audio MAP4 power cables 👍 👍, the Morrow Audio DIG4 digital cable 👍👍, and the Morrow Audio Elite interconnects 👍👍. It is a name not often seen.


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## Noodlz (Jan 17, 2022)

bcowen said:


> A true 60hZ hum could also be caused by a ground loop.  Do you have all your components plugged into one outlet (or into a power strip / conditioner that is fed by one outlet)?


Hm i don't think its the issue? i've actually tried literally turning everything in the room off late at night (like lights and everything off), and only running the amp plugged into a trip lite isobar, into the wall. Tried listening to it wit absolutely nothing connected to it except power. (and also playing music connected to it from battery powered dap, wifi and everything off and playing off the files). The hum remains the same volume & tone. i'm pretty sure its coming within the unit, unless its just the general tone from the ho[use and the amp just amplifies it.

Normally i connect my computers and monitors to a completely separate outlet on the other side of the room, and the audio gear is connected to the wall with 2 triplite isobar units (one in each of the 2 outlets), with everything right now on 1 isobar, but the zmf pendant by itself on its own isobar with nothing else connected.

Also tried an emotiva CMX-2, by itself feeding only the amp, and also tried daisy chaining the wall to CMX2 to an isobar to the amp. Same issue. Though it seems to sliiiighly help in terms of volume of noise.

Note this is all with the High-Z, testing with Sennheiser 6XX. on low Z its basically silent. On Orthos (LCD2) it's basically silent. some tubes i get the same 60hz tone at veeeerrry low level on high-z.

So far while i wait for new tubes to come in, I'm running the RFT EZ81 (nots sure what year, black plate o getter), TungSol 7189 (looks like new production?), and a Brimar 4068 made in England. The brimar exhibits the least amount of noise, but is a bit harder / more congested, though very clear. Im running a GE 12AU7 (grey plate, D getter it looks like, code 57-22) which has a much better sound stage than the brimar, and has more lifelike mids and more fluid, but does unfortunately exhibit more noise floor (same 60hz tone, louder it seems), as well as some crackling / popping when signals are near like a phone.

I've also tried the Stock JJ set individually and they all have more noise than my current set, again, same 60hz hum that is present no matter the volume. doesnt increase or decrease when i plug in inputs from my other units. Oh and also, i've tried the aluminum covering thing too. doesnt help with the better tube set, helps with the stock JJ's and the GE when phones are nearby.


And so at this point, i'm thinking its one or a combo of things:

The tubes aren't quiet enough. Have a couple coming in. if these aren't quiet enough will be calling up vintage tube services to get the quietest they've got to use as reference
Transformer itself is humming. This is probably why it seems to get better the more often i use it. Not much i can do here probably besides sending it in and upgrading the choke.
Power itself can use even better cleaning. I've considered upgrading my power outlet from a triplite to a ZeroSurge or a SurgeX. Also heard that there are balanced isolation transformers that could help, though i've heard mix results on those. Particularly interesting to me is if those Zu cables could help. Then again at that price point i'd rather stick to my Morrow cables & buy a Zero Surge.

TLDR; will roll more tubes. run it more. maybe find cleaner power. Enjoy the amp anyway.


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## 28Monkey (Jan 17, 2022)

Noodlz said:


> Hm i don't think its the issue? i've actually tried literally turning everything in the room off late at night (like lights and everything off), and only running the amp plugged into a trip lite isobar, into the wall. Tried listening to it wit absolutely nothing connected to it except power. (and also playing music connected to it from battery powered dap, wifi and everything off and playing off the files). The hum remains the same volume & tone. i'm pretty sure its coming within the unit, unless its just the general tone from the ho[use and the amp just amplifies it.
> 
> Normally i connect my computers and monitors to a completely separate outlet on the other side of the room, and the audio gear is connected to the wall with 2 triplite isobar units (one in each of the 2 outlets), with everything right now on 1 isobar, but the zmf pendant by itself on its own isobar with nothing else connected.
> 
> ...


When I purchased here on the Classified, the previous owner reiterated to me several times that the unit had a persistent transformer hum, but while I appreciated his honesty, I was more than willing to jump in.
I was aware of that particular harmonic, but as use and time has progressed, I don’t notice it anymore. So, did it diminish…or did my brain just cancel it out? LOL….Either way, it is no longer noticeable.


----------



## Noodlz

Yea im pretty positive it diminished. I've been A/B testing back and forth between the Pendant and WA6SE to compare the noise levels the same sets of the headphones. Compared to when it arrived the hum has significantly reduced. Actually as of now the hum is at a more than manageable level. This is very much the same experience I had when i first got my WA6SE. Though the noise on the pendant was much more noticable at first, but it also diminished way quicker than the WA6SE. Seems like within a week of turning it on everyday for a few hours the hum went from like a 0.1 to a 0.001 (1 being finger nail tap on the table, 0.1 being lightly scratching the table with said fingernail. 0.001 being finger-not-nail moving across the table. you wouldnt hear it unless everything is silent and you pay attention). 

again, this thing sounds AWESOME. and at this point i know im just nitpicking, but i know it can sound even better =)


----------



## 28Monkey

Noodlz said:


> Yea im pretty positive it diminished. I've been A/B testing back and forth between the Pendant and WA6SE to compare the noise levels the same sets of the headphones. Compared to when it arrived the hum has significantly reduced. Actually as of now the hum is at a more than manageable level. This is very much the same experience I had when i first got my WA6SE. Though the noise on the pendant was much more noticable at first, but it also diminished way quicker than the WA6SE. Seems like within a week of turning it on everyday for a few hours the hum went from like a 0.1 to a 0.001 (1 being finger nail tap on the table, 0.1 being lightly scratching the table with said fingernail. 0.001 being finger-not-nail moving across the table. you wouldnt hear it unless everything is silent and you pay attention).
> 
> again, this thing sounds AWESOME. and at this point i know im just nitpicking, but i know it can sound even better =)


Totally unrelated, but does the Woo and the Pendant share any tubes?


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## Noodlz (Jan 17, 2022)

Unfortunately not. At least not the first gen that i have. i think the 2nd gen uses slightly different tubes but i also think those dont share any tubes. My woo uses 5U4G for the rectifier and 6DR7 or 6DE7 or 6EW7 driver tubes.

I've actually just put my woo up for sale on another place right now, as much as I love it i can't have both of them at the same time. The Pendant is juuust slightly better sounding overall than the woo, which has magical mids but everything else a bit looser / bloomier. The pendant also works wonderfully with my LCD2 while being fantastic with dynamics too, whereas the woo is only fantastic with dynamics, but good-but-not-amazing with planars. Will be selling it here if it doesnt move over there after a bit.


----------



## bcowen (Jan 17, 2022)

Noodlz said:


> Hm i don't think its the issue? i've actually tried literally turning everything in the room off late at night (like lights and everything off), and only running the amp plugged into a trip lite isobar, into the wall. Tried listening to it wit absolutely nothing connected to it except power. (and also playing music connected to it from battery powered dap, wifi and everything off and playing off the files). The hum remains the same volume & tone. i'm pretty sure its coming within the unit, unless its just the general tone from the ho[use and the amp just amplifies it.
> 
> Normally i connect my computers and monitors to a completely separate outlet on the other side of the room, and the audio gear is connected to the wall with 2 triplite isobar units (one in each of the 2 outlets), with everything right now on 1 isobar, but the zmf pendant by itself on its own isobar with nothing else connected.
> 
> ...


If you enjoy the amp, that's all that really matters of course. 

One other thing you might try is a cheater plug. ****  This will lift the earth ground on the amp, and if the hum goes away that will indicate that 1) there is a ground loop between interconnected components, or 2) an internal grounding issue in the amp, or 3) possibly mis-wired (or loose wired) wall outlets. If the hum remains the same, it will indicate (not assure, but indicate) that it's NOT a grounding issue either internally or externally.

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Polarized-Grounding-Adapter/dp/B01M0FXMFK/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=2AUCORL8LJPFY&keywords=cheater+plug&qid=1642464513&sprefix=cheater+plug,aps,86&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWlRPRjFJQk01Vkw3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTc4NDMyM0RDTTNXMVlON1dBNyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODQ4NzgxM1JFQTVVM1VONUo4UiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

****NOTE: I am NOT suggesting and certainly not recommending that you leave a cheater plug in place on the amp (or *any* component with a 3-conductor mains cord). The earth ground is required for safety. Only suggesting to try it on a very temporary basis to help with diagnosis.


----------



## Noodlz

nice! ordered and will report back after i get it


----------



## Noodlz

Just got the grounding plugs~ Reporting back: hum stays the exact same. So just as i suspected no grounding issues at all, it's likely the transformers, the tubes, and or the clean-ness of the power itself. Going to roll through some tubes to see how far i can get to get things towards silence


----------



## 28Monkey

Noodlz said:


> Just got the grounding plugs~ Reporting back: hum stays the exact same. So just as i suspected no grounding issues at all, it's likely the transformers, the tubes, and or the clean-ness of the power itself. Going to roll through some tubes to see how far i can get to get things towards silence


Or all of the above. I think for me, it was a little of everything and changes were incremental but cumulative.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Blackwood VC with BE2 pads and Pendant Se is just WOW!


----------



## 28Monkey

4LoveOfSound said:


> Blackwood VC with BE2 pads and Pendant Se is just WOW!


aaaawwww......I wish you hadn't said that


----------



## jonathan c

28Monkey said:


> aaaawwww......I wish you hadn't said that


Not only did he SAY it, he EXCLAIMED it !


----------



## 28Monkey (Jan 23, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Not only did he SAY it, he EXCLAIMED it !


I know....I know.....CAPS and !!!! points should not be allowed by the mods. One or the other....not both.


----------



## bcowen

28Monkey said:


> I know....I know.....CAPS and !!!! points should not be allowed by the mods. One or the other....not both.


I don't know....if I had some Blackwood VC's I might do the same thing.  Gonna have to remain neutral on this one.  😂


----------



## 28Monkey

bcowen said:


> I don't know....if I had some Blackwood VC's I might do the same thing.  Gonna have to remain neutral on this one.  😂


No help


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I don't know....if I had some Blackwood VC's I might do the same thing.  Gonna have to remain neutral on this one.  😂


….then tell us about your Atticus AND SING IT TO THE MOUNTAINS !!! 🤪


----------



## robo24

4LoveOfSound said:


> Blackwood VC with BE2 pads and Pendant Se is just WOW!


Same with Blackwood VO with Universe & BE2 suede. It's been great pretty much only listening to the Verite Open since I got the Blackwood last month, even though I've had a VO for a couple years already. It might be my favorite headphone again (the VC was my favorite once I got that, but really it's splitting hairs choosing a favorite).


----------



## 28Monkey

robo24 said:


> Same with Blackwood VO with Universe & BE2 suede. It's been great pretty much only listening to the Verite Open since I got the Blackwood last month, even though I've had a VO for a couple years already. It might be my favorite headphone again (the VC was my favorite once I got that, but really it's splitting hairs choosing a favorite).


Oof….not helping at all.


----------



## jonathan c

robo24 said:


> Same with Blackwood VO with Universe & BE2 suede. It's been great pretty much only listening to the Verite Open since I got the Blackwood last month, even though I've had a VO for a couple years already. It might be my favorite headphone again (the VC was my favorite once I got that, but really it's splitting hairs choosing a favorite).


A headphone is a favourite if it is on your head…


----------



## 28Monkey

jonathan c said:


> A headphone is a favourite if it is on your head…


On THAT note….Pendant + HD800s + Joni Mitchell - Hejira: Amelia
Pretty darn good


----------



## Noodlz

Actually I’ve been wondering, has anyone paired the pendant with small speakers? Would the pre outs work with any passives? Or does it need to be so,e active speaker?


----------



## 28Monkey

Noodlz said:


> Actually I’ve been wondering, has anyone paired the pendant with small speakers? Would the pre outs work with any passives? Or does it need to be so,e active speaker?


I have paired the Pendant with a pair of active speakers (Totem Kin) and it warmed up the sound quite a bit. For passives, I would need a power amp in line.


----------



## 28Monkey (Jan 27, 2022)

Hhhmmmm……or should I say, HUMMM.
Plugged in a new inout tube today, the RFT ECC81 12AT7 tube. NOS from Eastern Europe. This is my 3rd go around with this tube. I have one that is great (only superceded by the Brimar triple mica Footscray). I figured I should have a backup. The 2nd tube had a definite hiss…so maybe not.
This particular tube….no hiss at all, but boy did it make the transformers hum. Like REALLY hum…like put your fingers on them and feel it, and through phones, definitely.
Why is that? (perhaps posing an existential question??)
Does this tube pull more power and make everything “work” more? 🤷🏼‍♂️
I dunno.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The RFT’s I’ve gotten sound great, but they do seem very hit or miss on noise. The good thing, besides the sound, is they are pretty cheap. The bad, besides a total crap shoot on noise, you have to get them from Eastern Europe so shipping takes for ever if you live in the US.  I bought a quad of them in late December and they are still in the Ukraine somewhere. The last purchase I made took 2 months to arrive.


----------



## 28Monkey (Jan 27, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> The RFT’s I’ve gotten sound great, but they do seem very hit or miss on noise. The good thing, besides the sound, is they are pretty cheap. The bad, besides a total crap shoot on noise, you have to get them from Eastern Europe so shipping takes for ever if you live in the US.  I bought a quad of them in late December and they are still in the Ukraine somewhere. The last purchase I made took 2 months to arrive.


What do you think your % of success is so far?
I might quit while I am ahead…well 1/3


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

70/30 with 70% good.  We'll see when the quad I'm waiting for shows up how those turn out.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> 70/30 with 70% good.  We'll see when the quad I'm waiting for shows up how those turn out.


You have had better luck than me, as I am more at 50/50 having tried over 20 of them at this point.


----------



## bcowen

28Monkey said:


> Hhhmmmm……or should I say, HUMMM.
> Plugged in a new inout tube today, the RFT ECC81 12AT7 tube. NOS from Eastern Europe. This is my 3rd go around with this tube. I have one that is great (only superceded by the Brimar triple mica Footscray). I figured I should have a backup. The 2nd tube had a definite hiss…so maybe not.
> This particular tube….no hiss at all, but boy did it make the transformers hum. Like REALLY hum…like put your fingers on them and feel it, and through phones, definitely.
> Why is that? (perhaps posing an existential question??)
> ...


If that tube (and only that tube) is causing an easily noticed increase in the transformer hum / vibration, it could have high interelement leakage.  Need a tester to determine that for sure, but depending on how high the leakage is it could be a _not_ good thing for your amp.


----------



## 28Monkey

bcowen said:


> If that tube (and only that tube) is causing an easily noticed increase in the transformer hum / vibration, it could have high interelement leakage.  Need a tester to determine that for sure, but depending on how high the leakage is it could be a _not_ good thing for your amp.


Thanks…it felt funky!!
You could put your fingers on all three transformers and feel them buzz. 
It ended up in the tube graveyard.


----------



## indstri

Hi all -- I'm looking for any further feedback from Pendant owners that also own a Susvara.  I'm trying to decide on if I need to sell off and repurchase my amp stack in preparation.  I've seen mixed reports on HF as well as other forums.  Thanks!


----------



## 28Monkey

I don't have a lot of rectifier tubes to roll through, but have found one I particularly like.
My setup was:
Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81 (input)
Mullard Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
Funkwerk ERFURT EZ81 6CA4 (64-65's) (rectifier)

Swapped a Tungsram EZ81 (50's) Foil Getter for the rectifier and it really seemed to add a bit of depth to the upper midrange. I liked the Funkwerk from Erfurt, but am going to stay with the Tungsram for now.

Anybody else have any experience with this tube?


----------



## Wes S (Jan 31, 2022)

28Monkey said:


> I don't have a lot of rectifier tubes to roll through, but have found one I particularly like.
> My setup was:
> Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81 (input)
> Mullard Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
> ...


That's a fantastic rectifier, and a good representative of the Tungsram "house sound".  I have a few of those, and love me some Tungsram Foil Getters.


----------



## 28Monkey

Wes S said:


> That's a fantastic rectifier, and a good representative of the Tungsram "house sound".  I have a few of those, and love me some Tungsram Foil Getters.


Yes....since the G.E.C U709 has been officially listed on the periodic table of unobtanium.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 31, 2022)

28Monkey said:


> Yes....since the G.E.C U709 has been officially listed on the periodic table of unobtanium.


They still pop up from time to time, but unfortunately the price continues to rise. This is the last listing I have seen, and it's crazy what people will pay for this tube.  I got lucky and picked up a few before they got so expensive and rare, however as amazing as this tube is, I would not pay $500 for one.


----------



## 28Monkey

A side question to that: Are tube amps in general becoming a less affordable (or economical) option due to the rising prices of tubes that are no longer in production?


----------



## jonathan c

28Monkey said:


> A side question to that: Are tube amps in general becoming a less affordable (or economical) option due to the rising prices of tubes that are no longer in production?


•  Less affordable/more costly: if one tries to roll tubes without sufficient research on the tubes (via these threads + elsewhere) on tube and vendor pitfalls to avoid (via these threads + elsewhere).
•  The rising prices of NOS tubes can be managed/mitigated by intelligent purchases. If the situation allows, a NOS purchase might cover current use and provide for a backup.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> They still pop up from time to time, but unfortunately the price continues to rise. This is the last listing I have seen, and it's crazy what people will pay for this tube.  I got lucky and picked up a few before they got so expensive and rare, however as amazing as this tube is, I would not pay $500 for one.


But I _would pay and have paid _$25 each for four RFT EZ81 foil getter rectifier tubes…😀


----------



## 28Monkey (Jan 31, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> •  Less affordable/more costly: if one tries to roll tubes without sufficient research on the tubes (via these threads + elsewhere) on tube and vendor pitfalls to avoid (via these threads + elsewhere).
> •  The rising prices of NOS tubes can be managed/mitigated by intelligent purchases. If the situation allows, a NOS purchase might cover current use and provide for


I agree with the managed/mitigated…but  NOS tubes by definition will continue to diminish in supply….and therefore go up in price.
Not saying I wouldn’t buy tho


----------



## Noodlz (Feb 1, 2022)

just got my new wooden case in for the pendant. god this thing is beautiful. sonically and now visually too.

will need to hunt for moar tubes. but till my batch of RFT tubes get here i think i’ll just enjoy this


----------



## 28Monkey

So when you say new wooden case, you mean a new Pendant….or just the wood case surrouns?


----------



## Noodlz

28Monkey said:


> So when you say new wooden case, you mean a new Pendant….or just the wood case surrouns?


new wooden case. i got the og pendant with the stock black case, and i got my hands on a wooden case to upgrade it


----------



## Wes S (Feb 1, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> But I _would pay and have paid _$25 each for four RFT EZ81 foil getter rectifier tubes…😀


The RFT EZ81 is a great tube and especially for the money, but it's not in the same league as the U709.  The U709 is the king of the EZ81 family.

As crazy expensive as they have been selling for lately, deals can still be found with diligence and a bit of luck.  I know of someone that picked up a couple recently for $50 a piece.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Is there a tube I can roll for moar bass? Right now I have the stock ZMF JNJ tubes, plus the ZMF NOS tubes, plus a few RFT input and rectifier tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 1, 2022)

Bassic Needs said:


> Is there a tube I can roll for moar bass? Right now I have the stock ZMF JNJ tubes, plus the ZMF NOS tubes, plus a few RFT input and rectifier tubes.


When I want some killer bass, I throw in some Tungsram EL84 Foil Disc Getters for power tubes, or a Mullard EZ81 Square Getter for the rectifier, and for the driver tube I like the Brimar CV4034.

Also, Sylvania EL84 Black Plates have some killer bass, but they are a bit hot in the highs for my preferences.


----------



## 28Monkey

Wes S said:


> When I want some killer bass, I throw in some Tungsram EL84 Foil Disc Getters for power tubes, or a Mullard EZ81 Square Getter for the rectifier, and for the driver tube I like the Brimar CV4034.
> 
> Also, Sylvania EL84 Black Plates have some killer bass, but they are a bit hot in the highs for my preferences.


Wow….I never knew that. Thanks @Wes S


----------



## jpsingh

I am lookin to get a used pendent OG. does anyone know what is the difference between the og and se except the lower noise floor.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 2, 2022)

jpsingh said:


> I am lookin to get a used pendent OG. does anyone know what is the difference between the og and se except the lower noise floor.


The High Z was changed from 300 ohm with the OG to 100 ohm with the SE, depending on how old the OG is.

Also, there is an improved pot with a stepped attenuator (24 steps and really nice) and Jupiter Foil Caps (improved detail/clarity) on the SE, as well as a larger choke to lower the noise floor.

So, with that said the SE is an improved version and the one I would be looking for.  I have not heard both versions side by side, but people who's ears I trust, say the SE is clearly (pun intended) a bit better.


----------



## prosnowboarder (Feb 2, 2022)

Just wanted to chime in on the brimar Footscray '57 12at7 I recently received from mullard magic tubes.
First of all I am very impressed with the sound signature and how it combines so well with other tube sets. Oddly I seem to like the stock jj tubes in the 6bq5 slots with the brimar 12at7 the most. 
I also noticed I have found a new liking to the few 6ca4 tubes I have. The brimar 12at7 just makes them more defined and easier to hear the sound signature of specific tubes in a very pleasant way. Makes dialing in the sound for my mood or headphone pairing very simple and fun.
Now I'm wondering if I should look into some better tubes for the 6bq5 slots since I'm enjoying the new production stock tubes the most while using the brimar 12at7 alongside.

Oh another side note: I'm just wondering what the difference is between my brimar 12at7 and the brimar 12at7 4033 others have mentioned( https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use )with the new base modification. Would there be a major difference in sound between the two? And could I damage the amp by using the original tube without the base modification? And is the pendant compatible with most/all 12at7 tubes without an adapter?

Also while I'm at it, if I'm looking for nicely defined and strong overall bass presence, which 6ca4 tubes should I be looking for? How about 6bq5? Specifically ones that pair well with the brimar Footscray 57 12at7 using the verite as headphones?


----------



## Wes S (Feb 5, 2022)

Today's tube roll - Funkwerk Erfurt Foil Getters in front (Single Getter Post ECC83 and EL84 from 58'), with the G.E.C. U709 in back.






The Funkwerk house sound combined with G.E.C. and my Atticus, creates a very deep holographic stage, tight imaging, impactful bass, and details galore in the mids and highs.  The "thereness" and immersion factor are in full effect with this combo.


----------



## 28Monkey

Been listening to a recent input tube addition to the mix.....a 12AU7 tube.....flying lead from Pulse Tubes.
BRIMAR F6067T - 1950'S Large Halo Getter STC Footscray Prod. ENGLAND. Mil Black Plate ECC82/CV4003/12AU7

Replacing the Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81/12AT7....which was my go-to gain tube.

Much more spacious....extremely quiet....with a very subtle bump in the upper mid's with my VO's.

Glad I got it....it's a keeper. Talk about two great tubes to bounce back and forth.


----------



## Noodlz

nice! is this the one with the big yellow T?


----------



## 28Monkey (Feb 9, 2022)

Yes…..that’s the one ☝️

I find that my Atticus sound even better than my Verite (O) with this particular tube.
The Atticus have a decided mid-bass thump which, to me, can inhibit mid-range. For some reason, this tube balances them better.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 20, 2022)

Rolled in an old favorite driver tube of mine last night, and as expected it did not disappoint.  This tube was one of my favs when I had my BHC, and I stashed them so well I had forgotten about them.  Well, after what I heard last night I sure am glad I finally remembered about them.  The Sylvania JHS 5814a Triple Mica Short Grey Plate Square Getter 59' is another outstanding tube in the Pendant.  This tube has a very unique sound in that almost every song no matter the genre, sounds as if it is being performed live.  The tonality and timbre is quite natural and the vocals are forward and clear.  The bass has really good punch and dives deep with good detail and texture.  The imaging is tight and the stage is more on the intimate side yet still sounds spacious enough when the song calls for it, and has the 3D effect going strong.  The highs are smooth but don't sound blunted at all, and detail top to bottom is quite good.  This tube combines detail with a natural timbre, and works well with all genres.  Another great tube no doubt.

Here is a pic of one of mine for reference.





Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> Rolled in an old favorite driver tube of mine last night, and as expected it did not disappoint.  This tube was one of my favs when I had my BHC, and I stashed them so well I had forgotten about them.  Well, after what I heard last night I sure am glad I finally remembered about them.  The Sylvania JHS 5814a Triple Mica Short Grey Plate Square Getter 60' is another outstanding tube in the Pendant, and gets an easy rec from me if you are looking for a well balanced tube that makes music sound organic/lifelike.  This tube has a very unique sound in that almost every song no matter the genre sounds as if it is being performed live.  The tonality and timbre is incredibly natural and the vocals are forward and clear and as lifelike as I have heard.  The bass has really good punch and dives deep with really good detail and texture.  The imaging is tight and the stage is more on the intimate side yet still sounds spacious enough when the song calls for it, and has the 3D effect going strong.  The highs are smooth but don't sound blunted at all, and detail top to bottom is as good as I have heard.  If it's in the recording this tube will let you hear it, but it does not force it down your ears either.  This tube combines detail with such an organic/natural timbre, and works well with all genres.  Another thing worth mentioning, is this tube is very quiet and rated for longer life, due to it's more robust construction compared to the civilian version 12AU7.  This tube pairs incredibly well with my Atticus. . . in fact I think this is best I have ever heard them sound.
> 
> Here is how I found out about this tube years ago, and I concur with all said.
> https://tubemaze.info/sylvania-jhs-5814-gray-plates/
> ...


My wallet shudders with every one of your posts, lol!


----------



## Wes S (Feb 20, 2022)

I enjoyed the Sylvania 5814a so much yesterday, I decided today I am going to try my other favorite 5814 variant.  The famous CBS/Hytron 5814a Black Plate Bent Square Getter is up for today's tube roll.  Pictured below is an earlier version with white label on left and latter red print version on right and they are ready to be rolled.  More to come on how they sound in the Pendant soon. . .


----------



## 28Monkey

General question for tube pairs, like in the 6BQ5’s in the Pendant…or perhaps the 12AU7’s on the RH-5. What happens if they are not sold as “matched” pairs?


----------



## ampsandsound

Those black plates are stunning. If you can find Silvana 6bq5 black plates it would be worth the time... ebay


----------



## Wes S (Feb 21, 2022)

ampsandsound said:


> Those black plates are stunning. If you can find Silvana 6bq5 black plates it would be worth the time... ebay


Yes sir!  These puppies (Sylvania 6bq5 black plates) will liven up the sound no doubt.  I prefer Tungsram EL84's myself, but I can see why one would prefer the Sylvania's for their speed, impact and detail (too much of a good thing for me ).


----------



## Wes S

28Monkey said:


> General question for tube pairs, like in the 6BQ5’s in the Pendant…or perhaps the 12AU7’s on the RH-5. What happens if they are not sold as “matched” pairs?


I imagine you would get channel imbalance if they are not close enough and I make sure my power tubes are at least within 10% of each other with the Pendant.  As for the RH-5 it's a different design being a hybrid and it does not matter quite as much but I still would want them close for peace of mind.  Just my 2 cents


----------



## Wes S

Anyone looking for some great sounding power tubes that have been tested and are quiet in the Pendant?  I just listed a couple of pairs in the classifieds.


----------



## hikaru12 (Feb 23, 2022)

Where is everyone getting their Funkwerk ECC83 tubes nowadays? Sounds like what I need.

@Wes - missed out on a lot of your recent tube sales. Really wanted those Raytheons haha.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Where is everyone getting their Funkwerk ECC83 tubes nowadays? Sounds like what I need.
> 
> @Wes - missed out on a lot of your recent tube sales. Really wanted those Raytheons haha.


I have not bought any from this seller, but this is the only person currently selling them that I can find - 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC83-FUNK...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## hikaru12

Thanks for the link Wes. I'm also currently on the hunt for some Valvo Long Plate 45 degree O getters. Outrageous prices on ebay ($300-$400 for a single tube).


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for the link Wes. I'm also currently on the hunt for some Valvo Long Plate 45 degree O getters. Outrageous prices on ebay ($300-$400 for a single tube).


Sure thing!

Speaking of Valvo LP 45 degree O Getters and those crazy high prices. . Looks like I made a good investment as I "only" paid $200 for my pair a few years ago.  It's quite sad that the more sought after tubes are rising in price, and I can only imagine how much they will be going for in a few more years.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Sure thing!
> 
> Speaking of Valvo LP 45 degree O Getters and those crazy high prices. . Looks like I made a good investment as I "only" paid $200 for my pair a few years ago.  It's quite sad that the more sought after tubes are rising in price, and I can only imagine how much they will be going for in a few more years.


Let me know if those come up for sale


----------



## Wes S (Feb 23, 2022)

Hey Folks - Just popping back in to share a bit on my latest tube rolls.  I have found 2 tubes that just sound so right it's ridiculous.

1.  Sylvania 5814a (JHS) Triple Mica Short Grey Plate Square Getter - This tube is very well balanced top to bottom, with big impactful bass, outstanding texture and detail in the mids, and smooth highs.  This tube does wonders for vocals and you will hear all the emotion coming from the singer.  The staging is very unique and at times sounds intimate and other times it sounds like I am in a huge concert hall.  I would say overall it's more on the intimate side, with outstanding layering and imaging.  The detail is as good as I have heard and little nuances are heard quite well, and everything just flows and sounds so natural.  While listening with this tube, I simply get lost in the music and always move to the groove.  Another interesting and very cool thing about this tube is how it seems to make many tracks sound as if they are being performed live and this really adds to the sense of realism and being "there".

2.  CBS-HYTRON 5814 (White label) Black Plate Bent/Angled Square Getter - This tube spices things up a bit compared to the Sylvania's neutrality, with bigger and harder hitting bass, more forward/better clarity in the mids and smoother highs.  The bass on this tube is incredible, with really good texture and detail and it slams.  The mids and especially vocals have a bit more bite and clarity to them, and the highs are smoother.  Also, the staging is huge and the 3d-ness is in full affect.  Immersive, detailed and dynamic are the first words that come to mind when I hear this tube.  However, this tube is not bright and actually due to the huge bass it sounds a bit dark overall yet still highly detailed.  This tube really reminds me of the famous bass monster tube the Ken-Rad 6SN7GT VT231 Black Glass, with it's contrasting darkish yet highly detailed and dynamic sound and holographic staging to die for.

Both tubes get a big recommendation from me. 







Happy hunting, rolling and listening!


----------



## hikaru12

Have you heard the halo getter version of the Sylvanias? Are they comparatively worse? They’re pretty cheap.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Have you heard the halo getter version of the Sylvanias? Are they comparatively worse? They’re pretty cheap.


I actually just got a couple of them, but have not tried them yet.  I will keep you posted


----------



## Wes S (Feb 25, 2022)

Wes S said:


> I actually just got a couple of them, but have not tried them yet.  I will keep you posted


@hikaru12 Well, it's been confirmed the latter version Sylvania 5814a triple mica short grey plates with the halo getter and green writing, sound pretty much just as amazing as the earlier JHS (gold print) square getter version.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> @hikaru12 Well, it's been confirmed the latter civilian version Sylvania 5814a triple mica short grey plates with the halo getter and green writing, sound pretty much just as amazing as the earlier JHS (gold print) square getter version.


That’s good to hear. Those are a bit easier to find and cheaper.


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## Wes S (Feb 25, 2022)

Been rocking out with a CBS 5814WA black plate in the driver position this morning and man this tube is so immersive, with killer bass and a very holographic and deep soundstage.  The 5814 has such a unique stage presentation, in that it can sound intimate and huge at the same time.   The detail and transparency is as good as it gets and nuance is in full effect, all while being totally fatigue free.  I am loving this tube!

Back to the music. . .


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Been rocking out with a CBS 5814WA black plate in the driver position this morning and man this tube is so immersive, with killer bass and a very holographic and deep soundstage.  The 5814 has such a unique stage presentation, in that it can sound intimate and huge at the same time.   The detail and transparency is as good as it gets and nuance is in full effect, all while being totally fatigue free.  I am loving this tube!
> 
> Back to the music. . .


Now you have *me* stash diving.  Just tried an early '60's ribbed plate Telefunken ECC82.  Gaaaa.  Typical non-'50's Telefunken noval.  Gigantic soundstage, detail out the wazoo, explosive dynamics, and....supremely lean and totally threadbare in the mids and upper bass.  I know the smooth plate versions are supposed to be better, but in this case they'd have to be several orders of magnitude better.  Next up: Sylvania 6189.  Haven't tried those in a while.


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## Wes S (Feb 26, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Now you have *me* stash diving.  Just tried an early '60's ribbed plate Telefunken ECC82.  Gaaaa.  Typical non-'50's Telefunken noval.  Gigantic soundstage, detail out the wazoo, explosive dynamics, and....supremely lean and totally threadbare in the mids and upper bass.  I know the smooth plate versions are supposed to be better, but in this case they'd have to be several orders of magnitude better.  Next up: Sylvania 6189.  Haven't tried those in a while.


Nice!  I still have yet to find a Tele that does it for me (I still would love to hear a G73R someday . .), but every time I roll in a Sylvania it's like coming home.  Sylvania's "house sound" is what I call a classic well balanced tube sound, and they just seem to always play nice.

As for tube stash diving, my sound preferences and gear have both evolved over the years, going from being all about the bass and warmth at the beginning of my journey and now I am more all about the mids and neutrality.  So with that said, going back through my tube stash has yielded some great results lately.

The CBS-HYTRON and Sylvania 5814 tubes I am really digging at the moment, were some of the first 12AU7 I had ever bought years ago, and man I sure am glad I pulled them back out and gave them a try.  I am also really glad I did not sell them, and that is a lesson learned.  I actually just sold some tubes from my stash the other day (and many more last year), and those will be the last to leave my stash from here on out.  I plan on owning a few more different tube amps down the road and will be keeping all my tubes from here on out just in case. . .

I bet that Sylvania 6189 is gonna sing for you.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 26, 2022)

I am having so much fun with these 5814 variants and it's interesting how different their soundstage presentation is to the 12AU7.  So, that got me curious about other possible drop in replacements like 12BH7, E80CC, and E180CC.  I know that the 12BH7 can be used in the Pendant and I am curious if the E80CC and E18OCC would be safe in the Pendant as well?

@ampsandsound  Hi Justin,  I have been doing some tube research and would love to know if it's safe to use E80CC (aka 6085) and E180CC (aka 7062) tubes as the input tube in the Pendant?

From my research it seems if the 12BH7 is safe to run in the Pendant, then I would assume based off the numbers that the E80CC and E180CC should be OK as well, but I want to make sure before trying them.

E80CC  (aka 6085) - 6.3 (Vh) .6 (Ah) 12.5 (gm) 250 (Va)
E180CC  (aka 7062)  - 6.3 (Vh) .4 (Ah) 8.5 (gm) 150 (Va)

12BH7 - 6.3 (Vh) .6 (Ah) 11.5 (gm) 250 (Va) - If this is safe to use in the Pendant, it seems like the 2 tubes above should be as well. . .is my thinking correct?


----------



## jplatypus

Wes S said:


> I am having so much fun with these 5814 variants and it's interesting how different their soundstage presentation is to the 12AU7.  So, that got me curious about other possible drop in replacements like 12BH7, E80CC, and E180CC.  I know that the 12BH7 can be used in the Pendant and I am curious if the E80CC and E18OCC would be safe in the Pendant?
> 
> @ampsandsound  Hi Justin,  I have been doing some tube research and would love to know if it's safe to use E80CC and E180CC tubes as the input tube in the Pendant?
> 
> ...


Also wondering here if a 7062 would be safe to use for the input tube?


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I still have yet to find a Tele that does it for me (I still would love to hear a G73R someday . .), but every time I roll in a Sylvania it's like coming home.  Sylvania's "house sound" is what I call a classic well balanced tube sound, and they just seem to always play nice.
> 
> As for tube stash diving, my sound preferences and gear have both evolved over the years, going from being all about the bass and warmth at the beginning of my journey and now I am more all about the mids and neutrality.  So with that said, going back through my tube stash has yielded some great results lately.
> 
> ...


I have a pair (one lonely pair) of 1956 Telefunken 6DJ8's that are one of my most favorite tubes.  I'm not a big fan of the 6922/6DJ8 family in general as I much prefer 12A*7's and 6SN7's and variants as driver/input tubes, but the '50s Teles (at least the '56's for sure) are special.  Pretty much unobtanium these days, and when they do surface they are ridiculously priced.  I have several pairs of 1960's dates, and it's like they were made on a different planet in a different millennium.  Huge difference...for the worse. 

Some initial promise with the Sylvania 6189. Great big soundstage and a lot more meat on the bones in the bass and mids than the Tele. But it was a bit hot in the treble for my tastes last night.  Letting it play now, and hopefully that treble prominence will tone down a bit and blend in with some break in time. As far as I can tell these have never been used...test better than bogey and the glass is totally clear with no darkening or coloration around the pins.

Spied another stashed 12AU7 I haven't tried in a long time -- the good ol' RCA cleartop (side getter).  These were always the 'tube that could do no wrong' IMO in that they were always musical and always enjoyable to listen to. But they never stood out as special in any way either.  In the olden days they were nearly free...I got a lot of 20 of them for $15 or so IIRC, but can't remember if the shipping was free.  May have to pop one of those in and see how it stacks up today.


----------



## Wes S

Just took delivery of another 5814 that I have been extremely excited to try.  The Raytheon 5814 Black Plate Double Mica Square Getter 52'.  This one is said to sound like a refined version of the CBS-HYTRON 5814.  I am absolutely loving the CBS-HYTRON, so I can wait to hear this version of Raytheon.  They look darn near identical except for the grid post being copper on the CBS-HYTRON and steel on the Raytheon.  So, it's actually easy to tell them apart once you look at the tips of the grid post sticking through the top mica on the internals of the tube.

Raytheon 5814 Double Mica Black Plate Square Getter  52'


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## Wes S (Feb 26, 2022)

Raytheon 5814 is in the amp, and let the fun begin. . .


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Raytheon 5814 is in the amp, and let the fun begin. . .


Sweet!  Can't wait to hear what you think of it.

The Sylvania 6189 is changing.  After about 10 hours, the treble edge is pretty much gone.  Still a bit uptilted in the treble though, but not as much.  Soundstage is out of this world -- way left, way right, way deep, but still with nice center fill.  Space and delineation around the individual instruments/performers is class leading.  Need that treble to blend a bit more and could use a little more impact and heft in the bass.  It'll get another 20 - 30 hours and we'll see what happens with a forgotten about tube.     Have some GE 6189's as well. Unfortunately, they have etched dots meaning they were actually made by GE.  Much shorter plates than the Sylvanias.  Still, it's possible GE screwed up and made a good sounding tube, so I suppose I'll have to try one.  Also found some RCA 6680's (another close 12AU7 variant). Don't remember ever having listened to them, so we'll see what's up later.


----------



## Dawgfish

Wes S said:


> Been rocking out with a CBS 5814WA black plate in the driver position this morning and man this tube is so immersive, with killer bass and a very holographic and deep soundstage.  The 5814 has such a unique stage presentation, in that it can sound intimate and huge at the same time.   The detail and transparency is as good as it gets and nuance is in full effect, all while being totally fatigue free.  I am loving this tube!
> 
> Back to the music. . .


The CBS-Hytron 5814 is one of if not my very favorite 12AU7 type tube.  Whenever I'm using a piece of gear that uses this family of tubes it's one of the first tubes I usually try.  Incredible sounding tube in every piece of equipment I've tried it with and that's been quite a few over the years.


----------



## Dawgfish

bcowen said:


> Now you have *me* stash diving.  Just tried an early '60's ribbed plate Telefunken ECC82.  Gaaaa.  Typical non-'50's Telefunken noval.  Gigantic soundstage, detail out the wazoo, explosive dynamics, and....supremely lean and totally threadbare in the mids and upper bass.  I know the smooth plate versions are supposed to be better, but in this case they'd have to be several orders of magnitude better.  Next up: Sylvania 6189.  Haven't tried those in a while.


Definitely recommended trying the smooth plate.  It's a lot like the ribbed plate but with some much needed warmth.  The ribbed plate can be a little too analytical sounding with some gear to my ears.  Of course ymmv.


----------



## hikaru12

Dawgfish said:


> The CBS-Hytron 5814 is one of if not my very favorite 12AU7 type tube.  Whenever I'm using a piece of gear that uses this family of tubes it's one of the first tubes I usually try.  Incredible sounding tube in every piece of equipment I've tried it with and that's been quite a few over the years.



Speaking of CBS - has anyone heard the CBS 7729? These are super rare lab grade versions of the AX?


----------



## Dawgfish

hikaru12 said:


> Speaking of CBS - has anyone heard the CBS 7729? These are super rare lab grade versions of the AX?


I have not but would live to get my ears on one.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 26, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Speaking of CBS - has anyone heard the CBS 7729? These are super rare lab grade versions of the AX?


I have and own one, as well as a few 7728.  They are warmish, and decently detailed tubes, with good balance and punch.  The earlier square getter versions of which are impossible to find have the magic mids and deeper bass.  They have a unique stage presentation, which is more taller and deeper than wide, and have huge soaring vocals.  They are not the last word in transparency and are more on the fun side with a bit of middbass bloom that can punch quite hard, and are a bit rolled off and smooth in the highs.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> I have and own one, as well as a few 7728.  They are warmish, and decently detailed tubes, with good balance and punch.  The earlier square getter versions of which are impossible to find have the magic mids and deeper bass.  They have a unique stage presentation, which is more taller and deeper than wide, and have huge soaring vocals.  They are not the last word in transparency/bandwidth and are more on the fun side with a bit of middbass bloom that can punch quite hard, and are a bit rolled off and smooth in the highs.



Bummer I’ll probably stick to the Siemens Halske then.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Bummer I’ll probably stick to the Siemens Halske then.


If you want ultimate transparency (solid state sounding ), Siemens Halske is where it's at.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> If you want ultimate transparency (solid state sounding ), Siemens Halske is where it's at.


Have you ever tried mixing and matching different brand tubes? Is that problematic? This would obviously be for input drivers only.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have not had my Pendant for about a year now but with all these fantastic tubes, particularly the input, it is quite obvious that the Pendant sounds good to great with most of these variants and flavors. The members who really get into the various combo's and rolling, like Wes S, hear more subtleties than casual listeners may pick up. Bottom line is the Pendant sounds great with SO many tubes that it is stunning!

I have to dig out one of my Tele G73-R and try it in to my BB tonight to see if these are as good as I thought when I used them in the Liquid Platinum a few amps ago.


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## Wes S (Feb 27, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Have you ever tried mixing and matching different brand tubes? Is that problematic? This would obviously be for input drivers only.


If the amp takes a pair of driver tubes, I use the exact same make, year and brand for both tubes.  It might sound wierd to have a different brand/make tube in each channel. . .then again if they are close enough in sound signature you might not even notice.  It sure would mess with my head though, and I don't recommend doing it myself.

As for the Pendant, I mix and match brands all the time and that's my preferred way to do it.  I like the G.E.C. sound (rectifier) mixed with the Tungsram sound (power tubes), and finally mixed with the Sylvania, Funkwerk, CBS-HYTRON, or Raytheon sound (driver tube).

Some brands just bring out the best in each other, and have better synergy for my preferences.  I like the sound to be as lifelike and transparent as I can get it without sounding sterile.


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## Wes S (Feb 27, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> I have not had my Pendant for about a year now but with all these fantastic tubes, particularly the input, it is quite obvious that the Pendant sounds good to great with most of these variants and flavors. The members who really get into the various combo's and rolling, like Wes S, hear more subtleties than casual listeners may pick up. Bottom line is the Pendant sounds great with SO many tubes that it is stunning!
> 
> I have to dig out one of my Tele G73-R and try it in to my BB tonight to see if these are as good as I thought when I used them in the Liquid Platinum a few amps ago.



The Pendant sure does sound good to great with many different driver tubes, and it sounds spectacular to next level with a select few.

Yep, I hear more subtleties the more I listen and the more I roll. . .and it keeps getting better.  I have been training my ears and brain to pick up on the little differences by rolling and listening to a bunch of different tubes.  As I have been hearing more and more tubes over the past 8 months with the Pendant, I have gotten way better at picking up on how some just do nuance and detail better than others,  as well as how they synergize together to better suite my preferences.  I have been working toward getting the sound as lifelike as possible without becoming sterile, and as such have been fine tuning this delicate balance between warmth and detail by rolling tubes, and  with how spectacular the amp sounds right now with the current tube combo, I can honestly say it has been well worth the effort.

I am a firm believer that you get out of it what you put into it when it comes to tube rolling and it's worth the effort to dial in your preferred sound, and get that amp sounding it's very best.  This is especially true for an amp of this caliber.  The Pendant really is a dream come true for a tube roller like myself.  There are tons of options for tubes,  and many of them are quite affordable compared to some of the tube types used in other amps.


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## Wes S (Feb 27, 2022)

Deleted duplicate post.


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## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> If the amp takes a pair of driver tubes, I use the exact same make, year and brand for both tubes.  It might sound wierd to have a different brand/make tube in each channel. . .then again if they are close enough in sound signature you might not even notice.  It sure would mess with my head though, and I don't recommend doing it myself.
> 
> As for the Pendant, I mix and match brands all the time and that's my preferred way to do it.  I like the G.E.C. sound (rectifier) mixed with the Tungsram sound (power tubes), and finally mixed with the Sylvania, Funkwerk, CBS-HYTRON, or Raytheon sound (driver tube).
> 
> Some brands just bring out the best in each other, and have better synergy for my preferences.  I like the sound to be as lifelike and transparent as I can get it without sounding sterile.


Noted I’ve tried it in the past with varying success. I’m eyeing some Ken Rad Long Plate D getters right now. Apparently it’s the best AX tube GE made. A very good tonality tube.


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## Wes S (Mar 1, 2022)

Just checking back in with confirmation that the Raytheon 5814 Black Plate Square Getter 2 mica from 52' is another outstanding tube.  This tube is so freaking good and suits my preferences to perfection.  Compared to the CBS-HYTRON 5814, the Raytheon is more refined.  The bass is tighter with more detail and texture on the Raytheon and it's actually some of the best bass I have heard with my Atticus.  The mids are even more transparent and forward compared to the CBS-HYTRON, but they are also a bit smoother and more refined as well.  The highs on both tubes are smooth as silk with just the right amount detail.  Speaking of detail, with the Raytheon it's as good as I have heard and I am hearing all the little nuances better than I ever have.  The staging is where things get real interesting, and the Raytheon has crazy holographic imaging and it puts me right on stage with the performers.  This is actually the most holographic and immersive stage presentation I have heard so far in this hobby and I am extremely happy with this tube.  In fact it's so damn good that I am going to just enjoy this one and lay low for a good while.

Here are some pics of this amazing tube, for reference.  I have both the yellow and red lettering versions and they are the same tube.









As usual with this site, I agree with all said about this amazing tube.  https://tubemaze.info/raytheon-crp-5814-black-plates-d-getter/

Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Wes S

Man o man. . .tube addiction is a very real thing that I sure do struggle with, and it seems it got the best of me once again.    I have been digging the CBS 5814 so much in my Pendant SE, that it got me curious about tube types other than 12AU7 and that led me to discover that many folks prefer the 12BH7 over the 12AU, if the amp can handle the extra current.  The 12BH7 is said to have stronger bass, better detail, and a grander sound all around compared to the 12AU7, and checking back through this thread Justin says that they are safe to use in the Pendant.  So, that got me wondering if there was a CBS 12BH7 and sure enough there is.  Guess what's on it's way to me. . .


----------



## hikaru12

Yeah 12BH7 is the industrial version. It’s slightly taller too if you’re racking it. Do you know if the gain is higher on that tube than the 12AU?


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## Wes S (Mar 2, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Yeah 12BH7 is the industrial version. It’s slightly taller too if you’re racking it. Do you know if the gain is higher on that tube than the 12AU?


The gain on the 12BH7 is 16.5, which is a tad lower than the 12AU7 at 19.   Where you have to be careful using the 12BH7 in a 12AU7 circuit is with the double heater current needed by the 12BH7.  As for the height they are taller than 12AU7, but shorter than an EL84 (of which it will be right next to), so not an issue at all in the Pendant.

I am really stoked to hear the 12BH7 in the Pendant.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> The gain on the 12BH7 is 16.5, which is a tad lower than the 12AU7 at 19.   Where you have to be careful using the 12BH7 in a 12AU7 circuit is with the double heater current needed by the 12BH7.  As for the height they are taller than 12AU7, but shorter than an EL84 (of which it will be right next to), so not an issue at all in the Pendant.
> 
> I am really stoked to hear the 12BH7 in the Pendant.


Not identical, but similar with these 12BH7A's labeled as CBS/Hytron. Interestingly, the raised portion on the plates is slightly curved.  Not like a true round plate, but has kind of a bulge to it.  I use these in my Jota speaker amp, and have tried Tung Sols, Sylvanias, and RCA's.  I like the Hytrons best, but the differences are very minor for this tube in this amp which I suppose is due to how they're used in the circuit. Output tubes (300BXLS's) and driver tubes (6922's) make substantial differences, so a tube rolling addict can still get his fix.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Not identical, but similar with these 12BH7A's labeled as CBS/Hytron. Interestingly, the raised portion on the plates is slightly curved.  Not like a true round plate, but has kind of a bulge to it.  I use these in my Jota speaker amp, and have tried Tung Sols, Sylvanias, and RCA's.  I like the Hytrons best, but the differences are very minor for this tube in this amp which I suppose is due to how they're used in the circuit. Output tubes (300BXLS's) and driver tubes (6922's) make substantial differences, so a tube rolling addict can still get his fix.


Nice tube!  I really can't wait to hear the one I have coming.  The version you have is a few years earlier than mine.


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 3, 2022)

All this tube talk gets me interested in some 6SN7's again. Apparently you can make adapters going both ways (which is interesting because I've always wanted to try a 12AU7 tube in a Lyr 3 especially since the thread has focused on them as of late with some really good suggestions).

Also is there any way to get the Pendant with XLR headphone output? All my cans use balanced cables. I don't like using adapters as I feel you lose a bit of transparency.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 4, 2022)

So, with the change to the CBS-HYTRON and Raytheon 5814, it's time to see how all my Rectifiers pair up with them.  I absolutely love the synergy I am getting with the U709 and 5814, but I have a feeling due to the more intimate staging of the 5814, that a different rectifier could result in something magical.  I have noticed rectifiers have an influence and bass and staging the most, so I can't wait to hear the results.

Here are the rectifiers on deck, for today's tube rolls.

Left to Right - Mullard EZ81 55' Square Getter Blackburn (Valvo Relable), Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 58' Welded Plate Foil Getter, Tungsram EZ81 55' Welded Plate Foil Getter, G.E.C. 54' U709, and Raytheon EZ81 Triple Mica Welded Plate Square Getter (Made in Japan and super rare)






This should be a fun day. . .


----------



## Wes S

The CBS 12BH7A Black Oval Plate D Getter has arrived!  

CBS  -  5814WA vs. 12BH7A





More to come on the sound. . .


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> The CBS 12BH7A Black Oval Plate D Getter has arrived!
> 
> CBS  -  5814WA vs. 12BH7A
> 
> ...


5814 to 12BH7:  "My, what big plates you have."


----------



## Wes S (Mar 5, 2022)

bcowen said:


> 5814 to 12BH7:  "My, what big plates you have."


LOL!!  . . .and those bigger plates are yielding a bigger sound.    With what I am hearing right now as I type this with the CBS 12BH7, I am not sure I will ever go back to 12AU7, 12AT7 or 12AX7 ever again.  So far with minimal hours of burn in with the 12BH7 in the Pendant, this tube has all the power and impact of the 12AX7, combined with the finesse, detail and headroom of a 12AU7, and is sounding incredible.





More to come after burn in is complete. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 5, 2022)

Wes S said:


> So, with the change to the CBS-HYTRON and Raytheon 5814, it's time to see how all my Rectifiers pair up with them.  I absolutely love the synergy I am getting with the U709 and 5814, but I have a feeling due to the more intimate staging of the 5814, that a different rectifier could result in something magical.  I have noticed rectifiers have an influence and bass and staging the most, so I can't wait to hear the results.
> 
> Here are the rectifiers on deck, for today's tube rolls.
> 
> ...


The winner of this roll off was not much of a surprise, but it was worth hearing them all again to see how they paired up with the 5814.  The G.E.C. U709 really is in another league and is back in the amp to stay for a good while.  The Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 was my second favorite, with a huge stage in all directions and was very well balanced top to bottom but in the end was a bit too dry and bass light compared to the U709.  The Mullard EZ81 Square Getter was nice for Jazz and Folk with very nice and present vocals and nice width to the stage, but the stage lacks depth and this tube has too much Mullard flavor (warmth ie. "Mullard Haze"), and was a bit loose and weak in the bass, compared to the other two previously mentioned.  The Tungsram EZ81 is another really nice well balanced rectifier, but did not really blow my hair back like the top two tubes.  Lastly, the Raytheon Triple Mica Square Getter EZ81 was just to warm, bloated and slow to keep up with the others.  This tube is more of a specialist and could work in certain situations, but does not really do it for me at all.

The G.E.C. U709 combines holographic staging with amazing height and depth in all directions, top notch detail, and a hint a warmth with really good power and punch down low.  This rectifier just can't be bested in my system, and man I sure do wish more could hear one. . .


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 5, 2022)

Wes S said:


> LOL!!  . . .and those bigger plates are yielding a bigger sound.    With what I am hearing right now as I type this with the CBS 12BH7, I am not sure I will ever go back to 12AU7, 12AT7 or 12AX7 ever again.  So far with minimal hours of burn in with the 12BH7 in the Pendant, this tube has all the power and impact of the 12AX7, combined with the finesse, detail and headroom of a 12AU7, and is sounding incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> More to come after burn in is complete. . .


What’s the heater voltage on it? Curious to see if it would work on my SET amp.

Found it - it’s literally just double any of the 12A series.

600mA in parallel (6.3V) and 300mA in series (12.6V). I think the reason the Pendant can take it is because it only uses one driver tube.


----------



## bcowen

hikaru12 said:


> What’s the heater voltage on it? Curious to see if it would work on my SET amp.
> 
> Found it - it’s literally just double any of the 12A series.
> 
> 600mA in parallel (6.3V) and 300mA in series (12.6V). I think the reason the Pendant can take it is because it only uses one driver tube.


Heater current is the same as a 6SN7 at 6.3v. Slightly lower gain.  Same pinout as 12A*7's.  Hmmmmm.  Might have to give one a try in the Incubus.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 5, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Heater current is the same as a 6SN7 at 6.3v. Slightly lower gain.  Same pinout as 12A*7's.  Hmmmmm.  Might have to give one a try in the Incubus.


Go for it!  Listening with the 12BH7 in the Pendant, is sounding like a perfect blend of a 6SN7 and 12A_7 combined.


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## hikaru12 (Mar 5, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Go for it!  Listening with the 12BH7 in the Pendant, is sounding like a perfect blend of a 6SN7 and 12A_7 combined.


From what I’ve read it’s a smoother 12AU7 and they’re cheaper too which is nice.

@bcowen - this presents an exciting opportunity for many entry level hybrid amps or preamps. The Freya+ and the Lyr 3 both take 6SN7s. I have a custom adapter being made to allow a 12AU7 to go into a 6SN7 socket. Since the pin out is the same a 12BH7 with this adapter would work in a 6SN7 socket. A fully loaded Freya with these CBS tubes would probably sound fantastic.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 5, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> From what I’ve read it’s a smoother 12AU7 and they’re cheaper too which is nice.
> 
> @bcowen - this presents an exciting opportunity for many entry level hybrid amps or preamps. The Freya+ and the Lyr 3 both take 6SN7s. I have a custom adapter being made to allow a 12AU7 to go into a 6SN7 socket. Since the pin out is the same a 12BH7 with this adapter would work in a 6SN7 socket. A fully loaded Freya with these CBS tubes would probably sound fantastic.


Smoother is definitely what I am hearing and the more I listen perhaps it's a little too smooth. . .


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Smoother is definitely what I am hearing and the more I listen perhaps it's a little too smooth. . .


Do you feel like it’s obscuring detail? That was my criticism of the 6SN7s.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 5, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Do you feel like it’s obscuring detail? That was my criticism of the 6SN7s.


Yes just a bit, and I just switched back to the 5814 and the immediacy and more lifelike feel/sound is back.  For me, the 5814 is the sweet spot for the input tube in the Pendant SE.


----------



## bcowen

hikaru12 said:


> From what I’ve read it’s a smoother 12AU7 and they’re cheaper too which is nice.
> 
> @bcowen - this presents an exciting opportunity for many entry level hybrid amps or preamps. The Freya+ and the Lyr 3 both take 6SN7s. I have a custom adapter being made to allow a 12AU7 to go into a 6SN7 socket. *Since the pin out is the same a 12BH7 with this adapter would work in a 6SN7 socket.* A fully loaded Freya with these CBS tubes would probably sound fantastic.


For sure.  Only question is how the 12BH7 will sound compared to a 6SN7 (versus a 12A*7).  Haven't had a chance to listen to mine yet....


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 5, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Yes just a bit, and I just switched back to the 5814 and the immediacy and more lifelike feel/sound is back.  For me, the 5814 is the sweet spot for the input tube in the Pendant SE.


You linked me to a 5814 back in the day that had red lettering but it wasn’t a Raytheon. Do you recall what it was? It was relatively easy to find and not too expensive. I had that in now and it’s definitely pretty dynamic like how you describe.

Speaking of which you should put a pair of those Raytheon 5814s in your Rogue and report back. Curious how they sound with different amps. 

@bcowen I have a 6SN7 to 12AU adapter if you want to do some testing. I can lend it to you.


----------



## bcowen

hikaru12 said:


> You linked me to a 5814 back in the day that had red lettering but it wasn’t a Raytheon. Do you recall what it was? It was relatively easy to find and not too expensive. I had that in now and it’s definitely pretty dynamic like how you describe.
> 
> Speaking of which you should put a pair of those Raytheon 5814s in your Rogue and report back. Curious how they sound with different amps.
> 
> *@bcowen I have a 6SN7 to 12AU adapter if you want to do some testing. I can lend it to you.*


Very gracious of you to offer, thank you!  But I already have one.  Just need to get off my butt and use it.


----------



## prosnowboarder

All this talk of 5814 tubes has me very curious to hear some more of them.
What specific 5814 would any of you recommend if I were to get just one?
Is this a good choice?https://www.rfparts.com/5814-cbs-medium-mu-double-triode-tube-nos-nib.html
What should I be looking for in brand or getter type?


----------



## bcowen

prosnowboarder said:


> All this talk of 5814 tubes has me very curious to hear some more of them.
> What specific 5814 would any of you recommend if I were to get just one?
> Is this a good choice?https://www.rfparts.com/5814-cbs-medium-mu-double-triode-tube-nos-nib.html
> What should I be looking for in brand or getter type?


I'll defer to @Wes S on what to look for with the CBS.  One 5814 I can tell you NOT to get is the Philips ECG.  It is without any doubt the absolute nastiest sounding audio tube I've heard in 25+ years of tube rolling.  It's really _that_ bad.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'll defer to @Wes S on what to look for with the CBS.  One 5814 I can tell you NOT to get is the Philips ECG.  It is without any doubt the absolute nastiest sounding audio tube I've heard in 25+ years of tube rolling.  It's really _that_ bad.


Why is it not in pieces? 🤣🤔


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## Wes S (Mar 6, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> You linked me to a 5814 back in the day that had red lettering but it wasn’t a Raytheon. Do you recall what it was? It was relatively easy to find and not too expensive. I had that in now and it’s definitely pretty dynamic like how you describe.
> 
> Speaking of which you should put a pair of those Raytheon 5814s in your Rogue and report back. Curious how they sound with different amps.
> 
> @bcowen I have a 6SN7 to 12AU adapter if you want to do some testing. I can lend it to you.


The tube I linked was the CBS-Hytron 5814 black plate bent square getter.  As for putting the 5814 in my RH-5, I have had the Raytheon 5814 Black Plate Square Getters 2 Mica, in my RH-5 for several days now and they sure do sound incredible in it.  In fact my RH-5 with the Raytheon 5814 is technically on a completely different level than the Pendant, and it's the best I have heard both that amp and my VC sound.  The 5814 (especially the Raytheon 2 mica black plate) is magical in both amps, and I could see it working well in any amp that takes 12AU7.


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## Wes S (Mar 6, 2022)

prosnowboarder said:


> All this talk of 5814 tubes has me very curious to hear some more of them.
> What specific 5814 would any of you recommend if I were to get just one?
> Is this a good choice?https://www.rfparts.com/5814-cbs-medium-mu-double-triode-tube-nos-nib.html
> What should I be looking for in brand or getter type?


That's an excellent choice, but a bit pricey.  That's a CBS-Hytron of which I have mentioned previously in this thread.   I have paid no more than $60 a tube, and they can even be found for about $60 a pair on eBay if patient.

The 5814 tubes that I am digging are, the Sylvania 5814a triple mica short grey plate, the CBS-Hytron 5814 Black Plate Bent Square Getter, and last but definitely not least the Raytheon 5814 Black Plate Bent Square Getter 2 Mica.  All 3 of these are outstanding with slight differences, the Sylvania being the most romantic but not sloppy, and then the CBS-Hytron is in the middle, and the Raytheon is the most transparent and forward of the 3.  These were 3 of the most popular 5814, that I found out about during my research.  The 5814 was a favorite tube of mine back in my Bottlehead Crack days, and I sure am glad I pulled them back out as they sound outstanding in the Pendant as well.  There are quite a few different 5814, and I am sure there are more great ones that I have not tried yet.  I do know the 3 different ones I have tried are all outstanding tubes.  Another thing worth mentioning, is that I have found these 5814 tubes to be extremely quite in the Pendant, of which is a big plus.

Lots of good and reliable info in this website about lots of different tube types and I concur with all tube descriptions.  This site has probably been the single best resource for tubes and their sound signatures that I have found in my 6 years of being in the hobby, and has helped me out tremendously over the years.  Here is the section about 5814 -  https://tubemaze.info/5814/

Below are links to the three 5814 that I am using and digging at the moment.

https://tubemaze.info/raytheon-crp-5814-black-plates-d-getter/
https://tubemaze.info/cbs-hytron-5814a-black-plates/
https://tubemaze.info/sylvania-jhs-5814-gray-plates/


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Why is it not in pieces? 🤣🤔


Concern, mostly.  It sucks *so* bad that if broken, the extreme vacuum might suck in everything nearby and risk the formation of a black hole.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not to complicate things but don't forget about the CBS Hytron 7730. Often relabeled in Raytheon 😂


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Concern, mostly.  It sucks *so* bad that if broken, the extreme vacuum might suck in everything nearby and risk the formation of a black hole.


That black hole would suck in the broken ECG  pieces…doing the universe a favour. Besides, if left intact, a tube ‘rookie’ might mistake the ECG _with its light blue print_ as a CBS-Hytron…🤔


----------



## Wes S (Mar 7, 2022)

Guidostrunk said:


> Not to complicate things but don't forget about the CBS Hytron 7730. Often relabeled in Raytheon 😂


Been there and done that one.   The Raytheon and CBS-Hytron 5814, both smoke the 7730 in the Pendant (in my opinion).   Don't get me wrong, the 7730 is a killer tube with a unique sound, but in both my amps I much prefer the 5814.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Been there and done that one.   The Raytheon and CBS-Hytron 5814, both smoke the 7730 in the Pendant.   Don't get me wrong, the 7730 is a killer tube with a unique sound, but in both my amps I much prefer the 5814.



Not to mention it's a lot easier to find than the Raytheon. The Ken Rads came in and surprised with how clear the glass is. Very nice mids and bass.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> Not to mention it's a lot easier to find than the Raytheon. The Ken Rads came in and surprised with how clear the glass is. Very nice mids and bass.


Nice tubes!  Ken-Rad tubes never disappoint in the bass department.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 7, 2022)

Well, it's round 2 with the CBS 12BH7A D Getter, and it's going much better than round 1!  I have a few more hours on it now, and rolled in a more neutral rectifier (Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter) and this is some seriously good sound. The stage is huge and the immersive factor is high, the notes have good weight, and the detail is as good as I have heard, all while being smooth and fatigue free. The separation and air between instruments is quite nice as well. The CBS 12BH7A is really starting to impress me. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 8, 2022)

Well folks after a long listening session last night (round 2) with the CBS 12BH7A D Getter, I can honestly say this tube is a keeper.  The first thing that jumps out when switching to the 12BH7 is the weight of the notes, followed by the very expansive stage in all directions, then the detail comes through so smoothly it becomes a very addictive listen.  The sound is big, smooth and detailed, and it reminds me of my 6SN7 days.  The bass is huge, and hits hard and digs deeper than any 12AU7/5814, 12AT7 or 12AX7 I have heard.  While listening, I get this feeling that the 12BH7 really is a great combination of the 12A*7 and 6SN7, getting the better traits from each tube type in one tube.  For those looking for a huge weighty sound with killer bass, great detail and smooth but very well extended highs, the CBS is where it's at.  The 12BH7 has the classic tube sound in that it is quit linear sounding with a huge holographic stage, smooth transients and a very punchy bass.  Don't get me wrong about the smoothness, as it's not overdone when paired with the right rectifier and power tubes, and in fact it's one of it's best traits.

I am digging the sound of the 12BH7 so much, that I placed an order last night for a Raytheon Black Plate Square Getter and can't wait to hear that one.  I prefer the Raytheon over the CBS with the 5814, and have a really good feeling about the Raytheon 12BH7.  More to come. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 9, 2022)

So, it's been an interesting last couple of days with the rolling of the 5814 and 12BH7, and I have learned yet another interesting thing about this amp.  Changing the tube type (12AU7, 5814, 12AT7, 12AX7, and 12BH7) for the input tube has the biggest effect on soundstage and dynamics.  Changing between different brands within the same tube type has more of a effect on timbre, tonal density and perceived detail.  Don't get me wrong, you can still change up the staging a bit (for instance pushing vocals forward. . .) by changing brands of tubes within the same type, but it's not as big of an effect as changing between different tube types.

So with that said, I have noticed that as you go from 12AU7 > 12AT7 > 12AX7 the staging becomes more intimate and the dynamics increase.  12AU7 is like sitting a bit more toward the back of a performance with decent dynamics, and the 12AT7 is like you are in really good seats just a few rows back with better dynamics and the 12AX7 is like sitting front row with the dynamics at full force.  Now onto the 5814, and it is quite interesting in that sometimes it does the intimacy staging thing like a 12AX7 and other times the staging sounds more open like a 12AU7, and the dynamics are somewhere in between the two as well.  The 5814 does have quite unique staging, and seems to be the most 3D like of them all, and really is a special tube.

. . .and lastly but most definitely not least is the 12BH7, and it's a completely different presentation, combining traits of all the other tubes into one magical experience.  The staging expands in all directions and is massive, and as big and expansive as the stage is, it doesn't loose out on detail or dynamics either.  Listening with this tube makes the amp sound quite a bit different, and for the better in my opinion.  The sound is so powerful and dynamic, with huge stage expansion in all directions and it's as if you are in a really good venue and the best seat in the house, and the detail comes through in spades and is very lifelike sounding. The 12BH7 really has this smooth classic tube sound with good linearity top to bottom, amazing detail, killer impact and note weight, and a huge and highly immersive stage, and sounds the most analog of them all.

Curious if anyone else is rolling with the 12BH7?  It's been quite a game changer for me, and I highly recommend giving one a try if you haven't already.

Speaking of the 12BH7. . .I just got notice, my Raytheon 12BH7 Black Plate Square Getter is out for delivery.     More to come. . .


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> So, it's been an interesting last couple of days with the rolling of the 5814 and 12BH7, and I have learned yet another interesting thing about this amp.  Changing the tube type (12AU7, 5814, 12AT7, 12AX7, and 12BH7) for the input tube has the biggest effect on soundstage and dynamics.  Changing between different brands within the same tube type has more of a effect on timbre, tonal density and perceived detail.  Don't get me wrong, you can still change up the staging a bit (for instance pushing vocals forward. . .) by changing brands of tubes within the same type, but it's not as big of an effect as changing between different tube types.
> 
> So with that said, I have noticed that as you go from 12AU7 > 12AT7 > 12AX7 the staging becomes more intimate and the dynamics increase.  12AU7 is like sitting a bit more toward the back of a performance with decent dynamics, and the 12AT7 is like you are in really good seats just a few rows back with better dynamics and the 12AX7 is like sitting front row with the dynamics at full force.  Now onto the 5814, and it is quite interesting in that sometimes it does the intimacy staging thing like a 12AX7 and other times the staging sounds more open like a 12AU7, and the dynamics are somewhere in between the two as well.  The 5814 does have quite unique staging, and seems to be the most 3D like of them all, and really is a special tube.
> 
> ...



I think what you're describing is relating to the gain of the tubes themselves. X has the most gain and is the most foward 'punchy' sounding of the bunch while AU is a bit lower. It's the same reason why a 6BL7 power tube is a lot more punchy and dynamic sounding than a lowly 6AS7. That doesn't explain why the BH7 does what it does though. It could be due to the larger heater current (it's weird though because the 6SN7 uses the same current as the BH7 but it's basically a larger 12AU tube). 

I was actually waiting on your Raytheon 12BH7 review before purchasing some as often is the case with tubes another better one comes along when you find a different series, year, etc.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 9, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> I think what you're describing is relating to the gain of the tubes themselves. X has the most gain and is the most foward 'punchy' sounding of the bunch while AU is a bit lower. It's the same reason why a 6BL7 power tube is a lot more punchy and dynamic sounding than a lowly 6AS7. That doesn't explain why the BH7 does what it does though. It could be due to the larger heater current (it's weird though because the 6SN7 uses the same current as the BH7 but it's basically a larger 12AU tube).
> 
> I was actually waiting on your Raytheon 12BH7 review before purchasing some as often is the case with tubes another better one comes along when you find a different series, year, etc.


Yep, the gain of the driver tube plays a big role in the Pendant.  Also, there are lots more options than Raytheon and CBS in 12BH7 and I plan to try them all.  Sylvania makes a black plate that is supposed to be killer, and the RCA black plate gets lots of love in others forums as well.  Another one I am keen to try is the Westinghouse black plate.  I like a certain sound, and will be pairing this 12BH7 up with others tubes (EL84 and EZ81), so who knows if you will like it in your amp with your preferences.  I am just getting started with this tube type, and who knows where I will end up.  All I know so far, is that the CBS 12BH7A D Getter sounds fantastic in the Pendant SE with my Atticus, when it's paired up with some Tungsram EL84 Foil O Getters and a Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter.

I imagine the size of the plates and other internal construction differences of the 12BH7, as well as the extra current is adding to the different experience compared to the other tubes.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Yep, the gain of the driver tube plays a big role in the Pendant.  *Also, there are lots more options than Raytheon and CBS in 12BH7 and I plan to try them all. * Sylvania makes a black plate that is supposed to be killer, and the RCA black plate gets lots of love in others forums as well.  Another one I am keen to try is the Westinghouse black plate.  I like a certain sound, and will be pairing this 12BH7 up with others tubes (EL84 and EZ81), so who knows if you will like it in your amp with your preferences.  I am just getting started with this tube type, and who knows where I will end up.  All I know so far, is that the CBS 12BH7A D Getter sounds fantastic in the Pendant SE with my Atticus, when it's paired up with some Tungsram EL84 Foil O Getters and a Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter.


How about a TungSol?  Have no idea how it sounds....warming it up now.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Yep, the gain of the driver tube plays a big role in the Pendant.  Also, there are lots more options than Raytheon and CBS in 12BH7 and I plan to try them all.  Sylvania makes a black plate that is supposed to be killer, and the RCA black plate gets lots of love in others forums as well.  Another one I am keen to try is the Westinghouse black plate.  I like a certain sound, and will be pairing this 12BH7 up with others tubes (EL84 and EZ81), so who knows if you will like it in your amp with your preferences.  I am just getting started with this tube type, and who knows where I will end up.  All I know so far, is that the CBS 12BH7A D Getter sounds fantastic in the Pendant SE with my Atticus, when it's paired up with some Tungsram EL84 Foil O Getters and a Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter.
> 
> I imagine the size of the plates and other internal construction differences of the 12BH7, as well as the extra current is adding to the different experience compared to the other tubes.


There's also the 12BZ7. Gain is up there with a 12AX7. My amp can't handle it, but the Pendant might.

I'm still looking for a 12*BJ*7.  Just 'cause with a name like that it's got to be good.  🤣


----------



## Wes S (Mar 9, 2022)

bcowen said:


> How about a TungSol?  Have no idea how it sounds....warming it up now.


I knew there was another one I was missing in my previous post, and that's the one.  Thanks for the reminder!  Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on how that Tung Sol compares to the CBS-HYTRON.


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## Wes S (Mar 9, 2022)

Raytheon 12BH7A Black Plate Square Getter is in the amp and warming up.  Let the fun and burn-in begin.  More to come. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 9, 2022)

Just had a quick listen to make sure the Raytheon 12BH7 was quiet while it's burning in and my jaw is on the floor.  I have never heard Grateful Dead sound so freaking lifelike in my life.  I got into them a bit late and never saw them live, however I really feel like I am at a show right now with my Atticus on my head.  The sound is so effortless and natural, while being highly detailed/transparent and completely fatigue free.  The soundstage is huge and open and I really feel like I am standing front row and can reach out and touch the musicians.  Jamming to Fire on the Mountain (Live at Barton Hall, Cornell University) and it sounds absolutely sublime.  I'm listening to Jerry and the rest of the crew jamming out at the end of the song right now and man I can hear every one doing there thing as if I was there (more than I have ever experienced so far in this hobby) and its so freakin amazing.  The separation, space and air between the musicians is just flat out stunning.  I really can't believe how good the music sounds right now. . .Just moved on to some Pink Floyd, Breath (in the Air), and damn this is best I have heard this song sound as well.  I can already tell this is going to be a late tonight. . .


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Just had a quick listen to make sure the Raytheon 12BH7 was quiet while it's burning in and my jaw is on the floor.  I have never heard Grateful Dead sound so freaking lifelike in my life.  I got into them a bit late and never saw them live, however I really feel like I am at a show right now with my Atticus on my head.  The sound is so effortless and natural, while being highly detailed/transparent and completely fatigue free.  The soundstage is huge and open and I really feel like I am standing front row and can reach out and touch the musicians.  Jamming to Fire on the Mountain (Live at Barton Hall, Cornell University) and it sounds absolutely sublime.  I'm listening to Jerry and the rest of the crew jamming out at the end of the song right now and man I can hear every one doing there thing as if I was there (more than I have ever experienced so far in this hobby) and its so freakin amazing.  The separation, space and air between the musicians is just flat out stunning.  I really can't believe how good the music sounds right now. . .Just moved on to some Pink Floyd, Breath (in the Air), and damn this is best I have heard this song sound as well.  I can already tell this is going to be a late tonight. . .


The Raytheon looks like it has that same bulge in the center part of the plates.  Way less than an oval or round plate, but convex rather than flat?


----------



## bcowen (Mar 9, 2022)

Wes S said:


> I knew there was another one I was missing in my previous post, and that's the one.  Thanks for the reminder!  Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on how that Tung Sol compares to the CBS-HYTRON.


The Tung Sol sounds so similar to the CBS that I did a closer inspection of the internals, and while they're not perfectly identical they're very close. Plate shape, height, color, clinch holes, getter support and shape....all the same. Some slight differences in the micas, but that could just be some manufacturing evolution. Can't guarantee it, but they look like they were both made by the same manufacturer.

The Tung Sol has a bit of grain overlaying everything right now, but that has improved as it's played.  The CBS was in my speaker amp so has many hours on it...no need to break it in.  I'll give the Tung Sol another 15-20 hours and see if the last bit of grain goes away, at which time it will probably sound like it was made by CBS.  Or vice versa.  

Next up will be an RCA. Truly flat gray plates, large round getter. Plates are taller than both the Tung Sol and CBS:


----------



## Wes S (Mar 10, 2022)

bcowen said:


> The Raytheon looks like it has that same bulge in the center part of the plates.  Way less than an oval or round plate, but convex rather than flat?


You are correct, it does have the same (identical) bulging black plates as the CBS.  Also, the house sounds do carry over to the 12BH7 just like they are with the 5814, in that they have a similar sound but the Raytheon is a tad more forward/transparent and more dynamic and exciting than the CBS in both tube types.  Both 12BH7 have a similar big and powerful sound, and it's more like tweaking the same sound by rolling between the two.  The Raytheon is just a bit more transparent to the point that it becomes absolutely magical in my system.


----------



## Wes S

Just checked my ebay watched list and it's amazing how 3 of the listing I had saved for the Raytheon 12BH7A Black Plate Square Getter have ended. . .  after I made that post last night.  Looks like some people are reading my post, and I hope that tube works for you as good as it has for me!


----------



## Wes S

Up next is the Sylvania 12BH7 Black Plate, and more to come. . .


----------



## Wes S

So I just put on my Atticus and have started round 2 with the Raytheon 12BH7A Black Plate Square Getter . . . and the sound is exploding out in every direction way outside my head, and everything has it's own space and is so well defined and clear it's nuts.   The sound is very dynamic, and the bass punch is instant with weight and texture you can feel, followed by insane decay.  Also, when the bass kicks in and slams, I can feel the powerful grip the amp has on the drivers and it's a blast.  The sound is so effortless, natural and analog sounding with killer transparency, and while listening with this tube the word wow pops into my head from the very start, and I am immediately moving to the music.  Everything just sounds so freaking real and right!  The stage is holographic beyond belief, and it's quite obvious within only a few minutes of listening that this tube paired with this amp, is on a completely different level than any 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7,. . .I have heard.  The stage expansion and images are huge, and the sound really is as lifelike as I have ever heard.  The way instruments are placed is stunning and how they feel completely fleshed out and have there own space is really something special.  As I shuffle through my burn-in playlist, almost all of the songs no matter the genre (even electronica) sound like they are being performed live, and it's such an awesome experience.  This tube is legit!

Back to the music. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 12, 2022)

Yesterday, I decided to hook up my VC's to my Pendant SE and see how they do with the Raytheon 12BH7 Black Oval Plate in the driver spot, and I was not disappointed one bit.    This tube is one that works incredibly well with both my ZMF's, of which I usually prefer a different driver tube for each.  Analog, detailed, and spacious with weight and texture you can feel is what I am hearing with both headphones, and I just can't get enough. . .The midrange is to die for folks!

Another thing of note is how quiet the amp is right now, and it's actually the quietest I have ever heard the amp sound.


----------



## Wes S

* Disclaimer Alert -  I just want to reiterate a bit about how my previous posts can seem a bit exaggerated.  I am completely dialed into my system right now, so every little change has become very important and substantial where I am at now in this hobby.  As usual take everything I gush about with a grain of salt, as I can get a bit excited.    However, I also have a pretty good track record for finding good tubes that many would agree have made a big difference.  So with that said, someone else needs to jump on the train and roll a 12BH7 in the driver spot in their Pendant, as I don't want to be the only one enjoying the magic it brings!


----------



## steve468

I have a Hytron and Tung Sol 12bh7, but honestly they never caught on with me. They’re both unfortunately quite noisy, so it’s hard for me to get around that. I remember they did have a more sweet, softer sound. Maybe I should give the Tung Sol another chance - I remember the TS 12au7 black glass was similarly noisy and flat sounding, but then settled into one of my favourite tubes.

I also wanted to mention my newest find, while they’re hopefully still available from East Europe (☹️): Reflecktor 6P14P-k with flying saucer getters. They look like the same getters found in Russian 6as7g equivalents. They were so cheap! I had to check them out.  They are the most open, detailed and punchy power tubes I’ve found (yet!), without any of the graininess I associate with brighter tubes like 60s RFT EL84s. To my ears they’re like a brighter, more detailed Sylvania black plate. I think they give a bit more punchiness to ZMFs, and allows LCD4 to see deeper into the music.

I’m sure these aren’t news to many people here, but they’re new to me and I like ‘em!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 12, 2022)

steve468 said:


> I have a Hytron and Tung Sol 12bh7, but honestly they never caught on with me. They’re both unfortunately quite noisy, so it’s hard for me to get around that. I remember they did have a more sweet, softer sound. Maybe I should give the Tung Sol another chance - I remember the TS 12au7 black glass was similarly noisy and flat sounding, but then settled into one of my favourite tubes.
> 
> I also wanted to mention my newest find, while they’re hopefully still available from East Europe (☹️): Reflecktor 6P14P-k with flying saucer getters. They look like the same getters found in Russian 6as7g equivalents. They were so cheap! I had to check them out.  They are the most open, detailed and punchy power tubes I’ve found (yet!), without any of the graininess I associate with brighter tubes like 60s RFT EL84s. To my ears they’re like a brighter, more detailed Sylvania black plate. I think they give a bit more punchiness to ZMFs, and allows LCD4 to see deeper into the music.
> 
> I’m sure these aren’t news to many people here, but they’re new to me and I like ‘em!


Bummer your 12BH7 were noisy, as it's darn near impossible to get a feel for a tube's true sound if it's too noisy.  Also, a brighter more detailed Sylvania black plate would be way too much for me, as the Sylvania has too much of all that for me already, so looks like I can skip trying the Russian.  Thanks for sharing that, as I was always curious about that one.   It's always interesting to me how we hear and prefer things differently, and I am sure the use of 3 different tubes types at once plays a big role as well.

Happy listening with those new tubes.


----------



## steve468

We definitely all hear differently - reading about things here and trying them for myself makes me realize that. My ears are my ears, and no one else’s. But I appreciate all the impressions in this thread, as I think what I like most is hearing about and trying new tubes!


----------



## jonathan c

steve468 said:


> We definitely all hear differently - reading about things here and trying them for myself makes me realize that. *My ears are my ears* and no one else’s. But I appreciate all the impressions in this thread, as I think what I like most is hearing about and trying new tubes!


This reminds me of the Christmas carol line: 🎵“Do you hear what I hear?”🎶…after which I sing: 🎵 “How the hell should I know?” 🎶…🤣🤪


----------



## Wes S (Mar 16, 2022)

Had another fantastic experience with my Pendant SE and Atticus and thought it's worth sharing.  I have been enjoying the 12BH7 so much lately, and decided to try something new last night.  From the start, I've been using the High Z (100 ohm) tap exclusively as I always felt like the Low Z tap lacked a bit of weight/warmth.  However now that I am using the 12BH7, I am getting more weight and warmth than I was previously getting with the other input tube types, so I decided to give the Low Z tap another try. Well, to my surprise the sound is tight, impactful and detailed, with just the right amount of weight. There is more of a "solid state" sound from the Low Z, with a tighter and less euphoric sound top to bottom, but thanks to the 12BH7 (Specifically the CBS-HYTRON D Getter), the sound is still organic and full enough to sound highly engaging.  Now, it feels like I own 2 different amps, and the versatility of this amp never ceases to amaze me.  I am loving the Raytheon 12BH7A with the High Z tap, and the CBS-HYTRON 12BH7A with the Low Z tap, and can't wait to try some other 12BH7 tubes soon.

Really looking forward to hearing if anyone else is planning on giving the 12BH7 a try, as it's been quite a game changer for me.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Nice try @Wes S, but I’m not biting. I’ve spent enough on tubes recently!  Maybe in the future…..  I will try the low Z tap though.   That’s free 🤣

I’m enjoying a late 50’s GE triple mica black plate 5814A (12AU7)


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Nice try @Wes S, but I’m not biting. I’ve spent enough on tubes recently!  Maybe in the future…..  I will try the low Z tap though.   That’s free 🤣
> 
> I’m enjoying a late 50’s GE triple mica black plate 5814A (12AU7)


You are missing out. . .In fact, I am enjoying my Pendant and Atticus combo so much with the 12BH7, that I am going to list my RH-5 and VC's this weekend.  Yep, the Pendant SE and Atticus have won my heart, and are all I need.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> You are missing out. . .In fact, I am enjoying my Pendant and Atticus combo so much with the 12BH7, that I am going to list my RH-5 and VC's this weekend.  Yep, the Pendant SE and Atticus have won my heart, and are all I need.


Now that’s a huge compliment. I will definitely have to keep an eye on your sale and also on getting into the 12BH7 train.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> You are missing out. . .In fact, I am enjoying my Pendant and Atticus combo so much with the 12BH7, that I am going to list my RH-5 and VC's this weekend.  Yep, the Pendant SE and Atticus have won my heart, and are all I need.


Dang it! Here goes more $$$$


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> You are missing out. . .In fact, I am enjoying my Pendant and Atticus combo so much with the 12BH7, that I am going to list my RH-5 and VC's this weekend.  Yep, the Pendant SE and Atticus have won my heart, and are all I need.


😦


----------



## Wes S (Mar 16, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> 😦


I am downsizing due to some external factors/personal reasons, and can only keep one system. . .

Pendant SE + Atticus = engaged beyond belief while listening, and hours of fatigue free listening with plenty of detail, and impact for days

RH-5 + VC = Technically superior, and amazing detail, but just doesn't have the same level of engagement for me, and can become fatiguing over longer sessions as I like to listen loud.

I definitely have enjoyed my time with both systems and have learned a lot from each.  However, I listen for pure enjoyment and to be engaged and the Pendant SE and Atticus combo is where it's at for me and the type of music I listen to.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> I am downsizing due to some external factors/personal reasons, and can only keep one system. . .
> 
> Pendant SE + Atticus = engaged beyond belief while listening, and hours of fatigue free listening with plenty of detail, and impact for days
> 
> ...


Surprised you never kept an Ori/Aeolus in your stable. I used to have a Camphor Atticus right when it first came out (Vicks vapor rub smell and all) and they looked goofy on my head with how big the pads are but the bass was straight up beastly. I couldn't believe the power it had. 

The Pendant is interesting in that it acts very much like a SET amp where it synergizes well with high and low impedance loads very well. In my eyes, if it's doesn't straight out excel in technicalities it does make it an interesting proposition to the more boutique stuff like Eddie Current, DNA, etc.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 16, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Surprised you never kept an Ori/Aeolus in your stable. I used to have a Camphor Atticus right when it first came out (Vicks vapor rub smell and all) and they looked goofy on my head with how big the pads are but the bass was straight up beastly. I couldn't believe the power it had.
> 
> The Pendant is interesting in that it acts very much like a SET amp where it synergizes well with high and low impedance loads very well. In my eyes, if it's doesn't straight out excel in technicalities it does make it an interesting proposition to the more boutique stuff like Eddie Current, DNA, etc.


Actually I have had both, and the Ori is a fantastic headphone and had I not gotten the Atticus I am sure I would still have it.  Also, the Aelous is awesome as well, but I need closebacks for my living situation, so those had to go too.

I have never heard any Eddie Current or DNA stuff but sure would like to some day.  As for the Pendant, it's highly capable and has plenty of technical abilities as well, and especially with the right tubes.


----------



## robo24 (Mar 17, 2022)

Anyone else purchase one of these? I figured since I love all the other recommended Brimars I'd enjoy this one too. Sure enough! Unfortunately double (or more) the price of their 4035, 4034, 4033. None of this is logical of course, but I just had to have that yellow T showing! Currently using it with the Sylvania/Baldwin/ZMF NOS black plate 6BQ5 and RFT EZ81 D-foil. I'd love to hear thoughts of how this compares with the other Brimars. This current combo is some of the best bass I've heard on the Pendant SE. Definitely more thickness to the bass, something I really like from the iFi Pro iCan when I had it and have had trouble getting out of the Pendant so far.

The bigger problem is that I've bought many of the ones Wes has recommended and recently went through the thread again trying his different recommendations, and my reaction is always that it sounds amazing! It makes it difficult to settle on any one combo. Good "problem" to have I guess.


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## Wes S (Mar 17, 2022)

It's official the RH-5 and VC are getting listed, and this system below is all I want/need.   

Sonnet Hermes > Sonnet Morpheus > ZMF Pendant SE > ZMF Atticus  = My Endgame


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## Wes S (Mar 17, 2022)

robo24 said:


> Anyone else purchase one of these? I figured since I love all the other recommended Brimars I'd enjoy this one too. Sure enough! Unfortunately double (or more) the price of their 4035, 4034, 4033. None of this is logical of course, but I just had to have that yellow T showing! Currently using it with the Sylvania/Baldwin/ZMF NOS black plate 6BQ5 and RFT EZ81 D-foil. I'd love to hear thoughts of how this compares with the other Brimars. This current combo is some of the best bass I've heard on the Pendant SE. Definitely more thickness to the bass, something I really like from the iFi Pro iCan when I had it and have had trouble getting out of the Pendant so far.
> 
> The bigger problem is that I've bought many of the ones Wes has recommended and recently went through the thread again trying his different recommendations, and my reaction is always that it sounds amazing! It makes it difficult to settle on any one combo. Good "problem" to have I guess.


That is the only Brimar and I mean literally only one I have not heard, and have always wanted to but it's just too pricey for me.  I do have it on good authority, if you like the Brimar "house sound" that is the best sounding and most transparent version ever made.  So, congrats on getting a killer tube, that should last you forever too. 

Knowing the sound of your other tubes and the "house sound" of Brimar, I bet that does sound awesome!


----------



## Shinsengumi

Wes S said:


> It's official the RH-5 and VC are getting listed, and this system below is all I want/need.
> 
> Sonnet Hermes > Sonnet Morpheus > ZMF Pendant SE > ZMF Atticus  = My Endgame


I have understood that you get more enjoyment from Pendant and Atticus than RH-5 and VC. But how would you describe the sound from Pendant and VC?

I have ZMF VC and La Figaro 339 with Chord Hugo 2+2Go and looking for my next amp.


----------



## Wes S

Shinsengumi said:


> I have understood that you get more enjoyment from Pendant and Atticus than RH-5 and VC. But how would you describe the sound from Pendant and VC?
> 
> I have ZMF VC and La Figaro 339 with Chord Hugo 2+2Go and looking for my next amp.


The VC and Pendant are incredible together, and it's a really fun ride.  I am all about vocals and the Pendant with the right tubes can help push them forward a bit, of which the VC's benefit from quite well for my preferences.  The Pendant and VC's both have a warm, fast and detailed sound, with a holographic stage and together the sound is fantastic.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> That is the only Brimar and I mean literally only one I have not heard, and have always wanted to but it's just too pricey for me.  I do have it on good authority, if you like the Brimar "house sound" that is the best sounding and most transparent version ever made.  So, congrats on getting a killer tube, that should last you forever too.
> 
> Knowing the sound of your other tubes and the "house sound" of Brimar, I bet that does sound awesome!


Very good to know. It does seems to have a little something extra over the others. I spent time with the CV4033, 4035 and CV455 yesterday and finished with the Yellow T and did feel like it was the best of those. So I'm glad I'm not just fooling myself or having a placebo effect to justify the expense. Yeah, the pricing is a little crazy, especially given the price of the RFT ECC83 and some others which are also spectacular.


----------



## Shinsengumi

Wes S said:


> The VC and Pendant are incredible together, and it's a really fun ride.  I am all about vocals and the Pendant with the right tubes can help push them forward a bit, of which the VC's benefit from quite well for my preferences.  The Pendant and VC's both have a warm, fast and detailed sound, with a holographic stage and together the sound is fantastic.


Thanks for your reply! Very helpful. From yours and others it seems that I would get a faster and more detailed sound with a better soundstage than my La Figaro 339, but I will loose the thicker and bassier sound. Maybe Mogwai SE is a better choice for my sound preference…


----------



## Wes S (Mar 17, 2022)

Shinsengumi said:


> Thanks for your reply! Very helpful. From yours and others it seems that I would get a faster and more detailed sound with a better soundstage than my La Figaro 339, but I will loose the thicker and bassier sound. Maybe Mogwai SE is a better choice for my sound preference…


Sure thing!  Of note, you can get quite a thick and bass heavy sound with the Pendant and VC pairing depending on the tubes, and in fact it can become to warm and bloated with some tubes.  However, I am sure the Mogwai has more of both overall no matter what tubes are used.  The Pendant responds extremely well to tube rolling and you can take the sound from warm and boomy, to quick and detailed no problem.  I for one don't think the VC need anymore warmth than what I can get with the Pendant, and think it's a great middle ground.  I like a warmer sound than most, and the Pendant is perfect for me.


----------



## 28Monkey

robo24 said:


> Very good to know. It does seems to have a little something extra over the others. I spent time with the CV4033, 4035 and CV455 yesterday and finished with the Yellow T and did feel like it was the best of those. So I'm glad I'm not just fooling myself or having a placebo effect to justify the expense. Yeah, the pricing is a little crazy, especially given the price of the RFT ECC83 and some others which are also spectacular.


I’ve had this tube in my Pendant for a few months now and it’s not coming out. 
I find it has remarkably improved not only the soundstage, but the overall tonal balance. (You can read my comments in the RH-5 threads….post #563).


----------



## jplatypus

28Monkey said:


> I’ve had this tube in my Pendant for a few months now and it’s not coming out.
> I find it has remarkably improved not only the soundstage, but the overall tonal balance. (You can read my comments in the RH-5 threads….post #563).


The RFT or the Brimar?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 18, 2022)

Just rolled in a different rectifier and hooked up my VC's and oh my word the stage is insanely deep and holographic and there is speed, impact and detail for days!

I am running some Tungsram Welded Plate Foil O Getter EL84 for power tubes and a Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter for the rectifier and paired up with the Raytheon 12BH7A Black Square Getter, it's as good a sound as I have heard yet.  In fact my VC's sound so freaking good, I have decided to hold off on listing them for now.  Still selling the RH-5 though, as the Pendant SE is so versatile it's really the only amp I need/want.

I picked up the Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter for $15, and it is easily hanging performance wise with the G.E.C. U709, of which are going for $350 - $550 a piece if you can even find one.  In fact, I actually hear the Tungsram as being a bit "better" than the G.E.C. U709, as it has a bit better transparency and detail with tighter bass.  The early Tungsram's with Welded Plates and Foil Getters are some serious tubes and I highly recommend hunting some down.  The early Tungsram house sound is very well balanced, with killer bass, euphonicly textured/detailed mids, airy yet smooth highs and a very holographic stage presentation.  Combining the "OG" Tungsram house sound with the Raytheon's transparency and dynamics, is such a fun ride and really makes both my Atticus and VC sound incredible.


----------



## 28Monkey

jplatypus said:


> The RFT or the Brimar?


The BRIMAR F6067T - ECC82/CV4003/12AU7 (50’S) Footscray Mil Black Plate


----------



## 28Monkey

Wes S said:


> Just rolled in a different rectifier and hooked up my VC's and oh my word the stage is insanely deep and holographic and there is speed, impact and detail for days!
> 
> I am running some Tungsram Welded Plate Foil O Getter EL84 for power tubes and a Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter for the rectifier and paired up with the Raytheon 12BH7A Black Square Getter, it's as good a sound as I have heard yet.  In fact my VC's sound so freaking good, I have decided to hold off on listing them for now.  Still selling the RH-5 though, as the Pendant SE is so versatile it's really the only amp I need/want.
> 
> I picked up the Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter for $15, and it is easily hanging performance wise with the G.E.C. U709, of which are going for $350 - $550 a piece if you can even find one.  In fact, I actually hear the Tungsram as being a bit "better" than the G.E.C. U709, as it has a bit better transparency and detail with tighter bass.  The early Tungsram's with Welded Plates and Foil Getters are some serious tubes and I highly recommend hunting some down.  The early Tungsram house sound is very well balanced, with killer bass, euphonicly textured/detailed mids, airy yet smooth highs and a very holographic stage presentation.  Combining the "OG" Tungsram house sound with the Raytheon's transparency and dynamics, is such a fun ride and really makes both my Atticus and VC sound incredible.


@Wes S … I have been running that Tunsgram rectifier tube for a while and while can not match your detailed description of its sound and impact, the one thing that is very apparent to me is the lack of noise…something my previous mix of rectifiers had plenty of. 
Right now my power tubes are the Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60s) EL84’s. Are your Tungsram EL84’s pretty quiet also?


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## Wes S (Mar 19, 2022)

28Monkey said:


> @Wes S … I have been running that Tunsgram rectifier tube for a while and while can not match your detailed description of its sound and impact, the one thing that is very apparent to me is the lack of noise…something my previous mix of rectifiers had plenty of.
> Right now my power tubes are the Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60s) EL84’s. Are your Tungsram EL84’s pretty quiet also?


Yes, my Tungsram's are all quiet and I have read they are built to last as well.  I know a lot of guitar guys like to roll Tungsram EL84 in their guitar amps because they can take a beating being overdriven and they are said to last forever.  That sure seems like it could be true to me, as my Tungsram's are some of the quietest tubes I own.

As for the description of the sound I am getting, I am doubled up with the Tungsram house sound, using their Welded Plate Foil Getters in both the rectifier and power tubes, so I am getting more of that impact and early Tungsram sound.  The Mullard EL84 your running are most likely holding the Tungsram rectifier's impact and abilities back a bit.  Just an FYI, Mullard warmth (haze) can mask the abilities of your other tubes and the amp.  I honestly am not a fan of Mullard's house sound anymore, as I have found it hinders detail and has too much "character" if you will.

It's getting quite hard to find the earlier Tungsram EL84's Welded Plate with Foil Disc Getters and even harder to find the earlier Foil O Getter(my favorite) , but they are worth the hunt, and hunt is exactly what it takes to find this very special tube.

I really wish that more people could hear and find some Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate EL84's and happy hunting to those looking.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 19, 2022)

After a bunch of tube rolling lately, I have landed on these two combos for my VC and Atticus, and I could not be happier with what I am hearing from both headphones.  Since the start of owning this amp, I have been on a quest rolling tubes trying to get the sound as organic, lifelike and immersive as possible without sounding forced or harsh, and I feel like I have really achieved that more than I ever thought was possible with the two combos listed below.

Tungsram EZ81 (WPFDG) > Tungsram EL 84 (WPFOG) > Raytheon 12BH7A (BOPSG) > Atticus = highly immersive, mid foward and transparent, vocals to die for, and middbass impact and texture you can feel, with an "on the stage" highly holographic stage presentation

Tungsram EZ81 (WPFDG) > Tungsram EL 84 (WPFOG) > CBS-Hytron 12BH7A (BOPDG) > Verite Closed = big, impactful and deep hard hitting bass that slams when called on, smooth open, airy and well balanced mids and lovely vocals but not quite as forward as Raytheon, stage expansion is huge and seems to fill the entire room, and it feels like I am sitting a few rows back in the best seats in the house.  Detail is all there, and doesn't sound forced at all, and there is an ease to the sound that has a very analog type feel to it.

I am in heaven with my system right now, and can't get enough.  The Pendant SE is such an amazing amp that is fun to use and look at, and really has become everything I hoped it would be and more.  This amp really is an avid tube rollers dream come true if you ask me, and definitely rewards the effort.  

Happy Listening!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I picked up a NOS 60' CBS black plate D getter 12bh7.  Was only $10.  Worth a try


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## Wes S (Mar 21, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I picked up a NOS 60' CBS black plate D getter 12bh7.  Was only $10.  Worth a try


Get ready for some powerful bass!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Get ready for some powerful bass!


Oh my Blackwood VC's and I are ready!


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## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Oh my Blackwood VC's and I are ready!


Those Blackwood's are gonna sing with the CBS 12BH7A and with the denser wood I bet that bass impact is gonna be something special.  I can't wait to hear your thoughts.


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## Wes S (Mar 22, 2022)

Rocking a great tube combo with my VC's right now, and man it sounds so good.  This combo is quite forward sounding with that "on stage" type feel, with really good transparency and detail combined with good weight and impact as well.  The images with the 12BH7 in the driver spot are larger and more fleshed out with their own space, compared to what I hear with the other input tube types, and as a result it's easier to focus on just one instrument at a time.  The 12BH7 continues to impress and my VC's are sounding so good, I can't stop listening with them.  I put the Auteur Lambskin pads back on and I am absolutely loving the sound I am hearing right now.

This combo is highly addictive and I can't get enough. 

Raytheon 12BH7A, Tungsram EL84 & EZ81






Back to the music. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 23, 2022)

Sure am loving me some Black Plates lately, and especially these four.  I think the darker plates just look so cool too, and there's nothing better than a good old American made NOS tube in a made in America tube amp!


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S in a dark alley......... "Hey, kid I got the GOOD stuff! Ever tried these sweet black plates???"


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Wes S in a dark alley......... "Hey, kid I got the GOOD stuff! Ever tried these sweet black plates???"


----------



## herdingunicorns

Wes S said:


> Rocking a great tube combo with my VC's right now, and man it sounds so good.  This combo is quite forward sounding with that "on stage" type feel, with really good transparency and detail combined with good weight and impact as well.  The images with the 12BH7 in the driver spot are larger and more fleshed out with their own space, compared to what I hear with the other input tube types, and as a result it's easier to focus on just one instrument at a time.  The 12BH7 continues to impress and my VC's are sounding so good, I can't stop listening with them.  I put the Auteur Lambskin pads back on and I am absolutely loving the sound I am hearing right now.
> 
> This combo is highly addictive and I can't get enough.
> 
> ...


That is a beautiful shot


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 24, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Sure am loving me some Black Plates lately, and especially these four.  I think the darker plates just look so cool too, and there's nothing better than a good old American made NOS tube in a made in America tube amp!



It took a while for that Raytheon 5814 to burn in - it was very forward and shouty when I first got it. For now, it sounds a bit detailed and smooth (15 hours burn in?). I personally prefer the CBS 5814 ladder plates. They're a little bit further back soundstage wise but make vocals sound incredible. I'm sure it's the opposite with the BH7's.

Speaking of which are there any 6189s worth it or are they the inferior military type?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 24, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> It took a while for that Raytheon 5814 to burn in - it was very forward and shouty when I first got it. For now, it sounds a bit detailed and smooth (15 hours burn in?). I personally prefer the CBS 5814 ladder plates. They're a little bit further back soundstage wise but make vocals sound incredible. I'm sure it's the opposite with the BH7's.


That sounds about right to me, and once that Raytheon 5814 is fully burned in (at least 30 - 50 hours), there should be no shoutyness whatsoever, and the holographic stage it throws will be unrivaled.  As for the CBS, it definitely is a bit more open and smooth sounding top to bottom.  Of note, the Raytheon does take a bit more consideration with how it pairs with other tubes due to it's forwardness, but with the right pairing it's an incredible tube, with detail, transparency and dynamics through the roof.  Both the Raytheon and CBS-HYTRON have their place in my system, and I like them equally.

As for the 12BH7 the same pattern follows, with the Raytheon being more forward, and the CBS being more open.

Overall, the 5814 has a tighter, faster, and more intimate sound, versus the 12BH7 having a grander more open sound and much more weight down low.  The 12BH7 is more linear and detailed in the mids and treble as well, while being smoother and having more weight to the sound.  There is also something special with how tight, quick, intimate and holographic the 5814 can be.  So with that said the four tubes I have pictured in my previous post and have been raving about, each offer a completely different experience of which are equally awesome in their own unique way.

As for the 6189, I have not gone down the hole yet so can't confirm.  

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## robo24

Not great at describing tubes specifics, but currently rolling RFT ECC83 with Mullard EL84 rx1 D-getters, RFT EZ81 foil-getter with both the Atrium and the Auteur and thoroughly enjoying it with acoustic heavy music, particularly Hawaiian music which has a lot of ukulele and slack key guitar and prominent vocals. Just an amazing sense of being right there, a real clarity but also a romantic and detailed with a wide stage. A better match than the same other tubes with the Brimar Yellow T in place of the ECC83. Not a surprise, but the Atrium is also fantastic on the Pendant.


----------



## Wes S

robo24 said:


> Not great at describing tubes specifics, but currently rolling RFT ECC83 with Mullard EL84 rx1 D-getters, RFT EZ81 foil-getter with both the Atrium and the Auteur and thoroughly enjoying it with acoustic heavy music, particularly Hawaiian music which has a lot of ukulele and slack key guitar and prominent vocals. Just an amazing sense of being right there, a real clarity but also a romantic and detailed with a wide stage. A better match than the same other tubes with the Brimar Yellow T in place of the ECC83. Not a surprise, but the Atrium is also fantastic on the Pendant.


Sounds like a fun time right there!  I love acoustic stuff, but have never ventured into any Hawaiian music.  I would love to check some out, and would you mind sharing some of your favorite artist or a few song titles? 

From what I have read about the Atrium so far, and knowing what the Pendant SE is capable of, I can only imagine how immersive the stage is with that tube combo.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> Sounds like a fun time right there!  I love acoustic stuff, but have never ventured into any Hawaiian music.  I would love to check some out, and would you mind sharing some of your favorite artist or a few song titles?
> 
> From what I have read about the Atrium so far, and knowing what the Pendant SE is capable of, I can only imagine how immersive the stage is with that tube combo.


Not sure how widely available on streaming services, but Makana (Ku'u Lei' Awapuhi is a Hawaiian classic) & Danny Carvalho for slack key, Jake Shimabukuro for ukulele (Stairway to Heaven & Bohemian Rhapsody on ukulele are stand outs), Tia Carrere has some nice stuff, Israel Kamakawiwoʻole is probably the most famous, and the soundtrack to The Descendants is also a good place to start.


----------



## Wes S

robo24 said:


> Not sure how widely available on streaming services, but Makana (Ku'u Lei' Awapuhi is a Hawaiian classic) & Danny Carvalho for slack key, Jake Shimabukuro for ukulele (Stairway to Heaven & Bohemian Rhapsody on ukulele are stand outs), Tia Carrere has some nice stuff, Israel Kamakawiwoʻole is probably the most famous, and the soundtrack to The Descendants is also a good place to start.


Awesome and thanks for sharing!  I just fired up my Pendant and I am gonna give those a listen.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Awesome and thanks for sharing!  I just fired up my Pendant and I am gonna give those a listen.


We want pix of you, adorned with Atticus, sporting a lei and a grass skirt…plus umbrella drink…🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> We want pix of you, adorned with Atticus, sporting a lei and a grass skirt…plus umbrella drink…🤣🤣🤣


LOL!  Well, my Atticus is riding the bench for the foreseeable future, so not sure that's gonna happen any time soon.    

It's all about the VC and Pendant SE pairing lately now that I am running the 12BH7 in the driver spot, and this pairing is on a completely different level and I just can't get enough.  

I originally thought my VC's sounded better on the RH-5, but I was mistaken.  The Pendant SE and VC is where it's at for me, and one might say they were made for each other. . .


----------



## Wes S

Early morning listening session has begun. . .


----------



## Wes S (Mar 28, 2022)

Anyone looking for some Tungsram EL84 Foil Disc Getters?  This is one of my favorite power tubes in the Pendant and gets a big recommendation from me.

Here's a couple pairs that just got listed -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-EL...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tubes-Tu...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0


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## robo24

Just bought the 2nd link. The first was already sold. Since there wasn't much description and was in German, for my records should I just call them that? Any idea what decade at least?


----------



## Wes S

robo24 said:


> Just bought the 2nd link. The first was already sold. Since there wasn't much description and was in German, for my records should I just call them that? Any idea what decade at least?


Those sure went quick!  The Tungsram Foil getters were made from the mid to late 50's.


----------



## psklrdk

Wes S said:


> Those sure went quick!  The Tungsram Foil getters were made from the mid to late 50's.


you are making a magnificient job to this thread! Thank you!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 29, 2022)

Pendant SE w/ Tungsram EL84 & EZ81 + CBS 12BH7 + Verite Closed = 

Stage expansion and imaging that will make your jaw drop, bass impact and texture you can feel, and all the detail one could ever want while staying smooth and fatigue free.  

The CBS-HYTRON 12BH7 is a real stunner with the Pendant SE and VC!

Back to the music. . .


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I'm discovering different tubes sound better with different headphones.  I really like the 12BH7 with the VC, but not so much with the Auteur.  I love love love the late 50's GE triple mica 5814 with the Auteur, but not with the VC.  I like the Funkwerk foil getter ECC83 with both headphones.  The nice thing with the Pendant is it's so easy to swap tubes!  I still haven't tried the Ken-Rad 5814 in the Pendant.  I love it so much in the Rogue, I don't want to take it out!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 29, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'm discovering different tubes sound better with different headphones.  I really like the 12BH7 with the VC, but not so much with the Auteur.  I love love love the late 50's GE triple mica 5814 with the Auteur, but not with the VC.  I like the Funkwerk foil getter ECC83 with both headphones.  The nice thing with the Pendant is it's so easy to swap tubes!  I still haven't tried the Ken-Rad 5814 in the Pendant.  I love it so much in the Rogue, I don't want to take it out!


I too prefer a different tube combo for my two headphones. 

As for that Ken-Rad 5814, you won't be disappointed to say the least.  I have been holding off on letting the cat out of the bag on this one, but so much for that. . .The Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate 2 mica, is an outstanding tube that has bass power that can almost hang with the CBS 12BH7, and that's saying something.  As for the rest of the sound, the mids are crystal clear and well balanced and the highs soar but never get harsh.  One might  say it's a perfect sounding tube. . .

https://tubemaze.info/ken-rad-ge-5814-black-plates/


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I'll have to look for another one so I don't have to take the pair I have out of the Rogue RH-5.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 30, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'll have to look for another one so I don't have to take the pair I have out of the Rogue RH-5.


I actually have some great news for you on that front, and it's that the G.E. labeled version sounds the exact same and is widely available on ebay at the moment.  I have a pair of GE from 52' and a single labeled Ken-Rad from 51', both with double micas and the pewter plates and they sound identical.  This is actually the first GE tube that I like, and like is an understatement.   This is one of the better 12AU7 sounding variants I have heard, and the bass is incredible.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

From what I read, G.E. bought Ken-Rad in the late 40's I believe, and the late 40's/early 50's GE's were made in the Ken-Rad plant.  Just because I read it on the internets doesn't mean it's true........


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> From what I read, G.E. bought Ken-Rad in the late 40's I believe, and the late 40's/early 50's GE's were made in the Ken-Rad plant.  Just because I read it on the internets doesn't mean it's true........


That's what I have read as well, and believe is correct.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> I too prefer a different tube combo for my two headphones.
> 
> As for that Ken-Rad 5814, you won't be disappointed to say the least.  I have been holding off on letting the cat out of the bag on this one, but so much for that. . .The Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate 2 mica, is an outstanding tube that has bass power that can almost hang with the CBS 12BH7, and that's saying something.  As for the rest of the sound, the mids are crystal clear and well balanced and the highs soar but never get harsh.  One might  say it's a perfect sounding tube. . .
> 
> https://tubemaze.info/ken-rad-ge-5814-black-plates/


I have that Pewter plate but as a 12AX7 tube. It’s highly recommended.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> I have that Pewter plate but as a 12AX7 tube. It’s highly recommended.


Nice!  have been looking at Ken-Rad pewter plates in 12AU7 and 12AX7, and plan to try both eventually.


----------



## Baldeagle58

I guess that I am pretty late to the party in regard to some of these tube combinations being used in the Pendant. Having always been a “music first” guy I start listening to one track and end up listening to the whole album. That’s OK but not exactly analytical if it’s tubes that you are trying to compare. There’s only so many times that one can listen to “The smoothly song” or whatever you use to compare gear with. Having said all of that I am astounded in the detail of sound provided by a Raytheon 12BH7 that I received the other day.
Dave’s picks 41 has never sounded better. Everyone in the band seems to have a light shining on them somehow. Just listening to the music again now.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 31, 2022)

Baldeagle58 said:


> I guess that I am pretty late to the party in regard to some of these tube combinations being used in the Pendant. Having always been a “music first” guy I start listening to one track and end up listening to the whole album. That’s OK but not exactly analytical if it’s tubes that you are trying to compare. There’s only so many times that one can listen to “The smoothly song” or whatever you use to compare gear with. Having said all of that I am astounded in the detail of sound provided by a Raytheon 12BH7 that I received the other day.
> Dave’s picks 41 has never sounded better. Everyone in the band seems to have a light shining on them somehow. Just listening to the music again now.


Heck yeah, another win for the 12BH7! 

It's all about listening to the music for me too, and finding tubes that make it more engaging is just part of the fun.

Welcome to the club and better late than never!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 31, 2022)

Took a trip down memory lane last night with some of my rare and highly sought after "Holy Grail" level tubes, as curiosity got the best of me and I just had to see if any of them could best my current favs the Raytheon and CBS-Hytron 12BH7.

From left to right - Valvo Hamburg "Coin Base" D Getter ECC81, Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter, Tungsram ECC82 Grey Welded Plate Foil Getter, Tungsram Black Welded Plate Foil Getter, and Lorenz ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter






All of these sounded fantastic in their own unique way, however they just can't hang with the 12BH7 when it comes to stage expansion, note weight, detail, sense of space and impact. . .so back to the storage bin they go.

The 12BH7 in the Pendant SE with the VC is really something special folks, and I can't recommend it enough.


----------



## bcowen

4LoveOfSound said:


> From what I read, G.E. bought Ken-Rad in the late 40's I believe, and the late 40's/early 50's GE's were made in the Ken-Rad plant.  Just because I read it on the internets doesn't mean it's true........


GE bought Ken-Rad in 1945.  It's probably safe to assume that many of the Ken-Rad designs and materials carried on for at least a few years past that before GE was able to fully muck things up.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 1, 2022)

OK...............SURLEY one or more of you guys have tried these bargain basement gems?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?




Another day, another tube flavor that is, I'm sure, great sounding. I bought many of the other types all along the way and yes, they sounded great. Frankly I have not tried many tubes in the Pendant or BB that didn't sound good! 

It  is my choice to hop on the bandwagon and enjoy the ride of the new (actually old) tube that Wes S has found or watch from a distance and see if the 12BH7 has longevity or joins the other Holy Grail tubes that are now sitting in boxes.  I've said it here before, I am a GREAT tube buyer but I never sell. I hope my collection doesn't end up at Goodwill or in a box on a card table for $1 after I leave the planet  !!!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 1, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> OK...............SURLEY one or more of you guys have tried these bargain basement gems?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't care for Brimar anymore, so will leave those up to someone else.  I am set for life myself with tubes, and have bought and sold to where my collection is complete with backups for my backups and backups for those backups and backups for those backups, and won't be selling or buying anymore.  I am done and could not be happier.   I have found a bunch of really cool tubes, and I have learned a ton.   To me, tube rolling is all about the journey or quest to find the most lifelike tonality and timbre coupled with the biggest most immersive stage I can get.  The sound I am getting now from my Pendant SE is everything I dreamed it would be and way more, so I am going to ride out the rest of my years with my current tube collection and this amazing amp.  It's been fun sharing my experiences, and I now I am gonna sit back and enjoy what I have and let others share their experiences in this thread.  So, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the next one from me. 

Standouts from my journey and what I will be listening with from hear on out.  There are many good and even great sounding tubes, but these are a step above all the rest for my preferences (lifelike and immersive).

Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters and Foil Disc Getters for power tubes.

Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter and G.E.C. U709 for the rectifier 

CBS-HYTRON and Raytheon 12bh7 Black Oval Plate D Getters and G.E. 5814 Pewter Plate 2 Mica Square Getter for driver tubes.

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I am done *for* *this* *week* and could not be happier.



FTFY.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

A little afternoon Pendant time!


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S has found countless glass gems throughout the years!!!

I’m glad finding new tubes is still his joy and he had aimed many in the right direction with details of X vs Y. 

Like Wes, I have a lifetime of tubes. Not that I won’t try the latest gem, 12BH7, but then I’ll STOP!!!!


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Like Wes, I have a lifetime of tubes. Not that I won’t try the latest gem, 12BH7, but then I’ll STOP!!!!


A)…to paraphrase Mae West, “it’s not the tubes in your life, it’s the life in your tubes”…
B)…then you’ll STOP saying that you’ll STOP…😜


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Wes S has found countless glass gems throughout the years!!!
> 
> I’m glad finding new tubes is still his joy and he had aimed many in the right direction with details of X vs Y.
> 
> Like Wes, I have a lifetime of tubes. Not that I won’t try the latest gem, 12BH7, *but then I’ll STOP!!!!*


Yeah, yeah.  I've stopped so many times I had to stop counting.

Quitting smoking was easier.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Yeah, yeah.  I've stopped so many times I had to stop counting. Quitting smoking was easier.


…Bill Clinton says: “I didn’t inhale”, a tube addict says: “I didn’t listen”…🤣🤪…


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 2, 2022)

Yeah, I held out at LEAST an hour..............got a 12BH7 Raytheon and a Hytron black, oval plates and with D getter

But now I am DONE buying tubes.............I really mean it this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Yeah, I held out at LEAST an hour..............got a 12BH7 Raytheon and a Hytron black, oval plates and with D getter
> 
> But now I am DONE buying tubes.............I really mean it this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 3, 2022)

Group buy???


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Group buy???


Wege_high_tubes?     Cartago_est_delenda?


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Wege_high_tubes?     Cartago_est_delenda?


Can't be anyone else, unless BangyBang opened an Italian division recently.  If that happened, I feel really sorry for Italy.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Can't be anyone else, unless BangyBang opened an Italian division recently.  If that happened, I feel really sorry for Italy.


An Italian subsidiary would likely be called ‘Bang e Bang’….🤣


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, it's Wege_high_tubes !!!!!!!!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Yup, it's Wege_high_tubes !!!!!!!!


AKA I'm_High_Tubes.  And the 'high' refers to more than just the prices.


----------



## nwavesailor

You can ask any price for whatever you own and someone may eventually buy it. 

He only needs a sale or 2 to make BIG $$$


----------



## jonathan c

I will have to, then, trot out a post from November 2021 in the DarkVoice thread…


----------



## nwavesailor

Thank you, Sammy!


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 7, 2022)

I tried the 12BH7 Raytheon black oval plate, D getter last night and yes, it is a very nice tube! It tests perfect plate top plate and is stone quiet as well. Hard to say how it compares to my Holy Grails, but it is indeed a keeper at a bargain price of $20!

I will receive my Hytron today.

Wes S has dig up another oldie but goody and I am DONE buying tubes.............at least for today


----------



## nwavesailor

Broke the rule and didn't notice "No returns' on the Hytron. Complete waste of $$$ with readings on both plates in the REJECT zone. I was going to raise a fuss with E-Bay and the seller and then I dropped it............ butter fingers!

Oh well. Lesson learned and only $20 for Stupid Tax.


----------



## nwavesailor

Contacted the 12BH7 seller and got a full refund.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Finally put the 51' Ken-Rad 5814 pewter plate in the Pendant.  NICE!  I took them out of my RH-5 because my left channel developed crackling.  I'll put each of the Ken-Rad's in the Pendant and see if I can reproduce it.  The CBS 12BH7 has a much different presentation to it.  Much bigger sound stage.  Both are excellent and pretty quiet.  The quietest tube I have is the GE grey plate, triple mica, 5814A.  I don't know what year it is.  There isn't any date code on it.  I would guess somewhere in the 60's.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 9, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> Broke the rule and didn't notice "No returns' on the Hytron. Complete waste of $$$ with readings on both plates in the REJECT zone. I was going to raise a fuss with E-Bay and the seller and then I dropped it............ butter fingers!
> 
> Oh well. Lesson learned and only $20 for Stupid Tax.


Bummer, and hopefully you don't give up on finding and trying the CBS-HYTRON version, as that's my favorite and is the most impressive of all the 12BH7 I have heard so far.  Speaking of the CBS-HYTRON 12BH7, as it usually goes with tubes I am finding the earlier the better.   Look for White Lettered Logos and Getters that are angled (45 degree), as those have better inner detail and more harmonic richness as well.  It's hard to put it into words, but the earlier versions just sound more "magical" and "lifelike".

Look for something like this below and you won't be disappointed (as long as they test well and aren't noisy).

The 2 earliest versions - Angled D Getter (left tube) and Angled Square Getter (earliest version on the right).





Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Bummer, and hopefully you don't give up on finding and trying the CBS-HYTRON version, as that's my favorite and is the most impressive of all the 12BH7 I have heard so far.  Speaking of the CBS-HYTRON 12BH7, as it usually goes with tubes I am finding the earlier the better.   Look for White Lettered Logos and Getters that are angled (45 degree), as those have better inner detail and more harmonic richness as well.  It's hard to put it into words, but the earlier versions just sound more "magical" and "lifelike".
> 
> Look for something like this below and you won't be disappointed (as long as they test well and aren't noisy).
> 
> ...


I had those in my watched items for about 4 hours then they were sold.  I guess I know who bought them.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I had those in my watched items for about 4 hours then they were sold.  I guess I know who bought them.


Guilty as charged.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Guilty as charged.


I knew I should have just bought them and not waited..  Oh well.  Listening to my new Atrium on the Pendant.  What a beautiful sounding headphone.  The sound stage of these is amazing and so immersive.  I have 4 ZMFs now Blackwood VC, Bocote Auteur, Bubinga Aoleus, Age Cherry Atrium) and they all sound different.  Justification to keep them all!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 10, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I knew I should have just bought them and not waited..  Oh well.  Listening to my new Atrium on the Pendant.  What a beautiful sounding headphone.  The sound stage of these is amazing and so immersive.  I have 4 ZMFs now Blackwood VC, Bocote Auteur, Bubinga Aoleus, Age Cherry Atrium) and they all sound different.  Justification to keep them all!


LOL!  I am sure there will be more, and I am all stocked up now on that version so you won't be competing with me next time.  As for the Atrium, I can only imagine the sound stage with the Pendant SE and some good tubes. . .I don't do Open-Backs but that one has really tempted me into thinking maybe I could use one.  That being said, I already have the funds lined up and ready to go for the soon to be released Closed-Back version of the Atrium and can't wait to add a 3rd ZMF Closed-Back to my collection.  I have been rocking with my Atticus the past couple of days after going 2 weeks straight with my VC, and man o man they both have their strengths and own unique character and I love both headphones equally (definitely justified owning multiple ZMF's).  I think the VC, Atticus, and Atrium Closed will be a "dream team" with three different driver types/flavors of ZMF awesomeness, and I can't wait to complete the trio.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I can’t say I won’t get the closed Atrium as well…… I would get rid of at least one of my open backs if/when that happens.  It’s just so hard to part with any of them.  They all do sound unique and awesome in their own ways!  Zach is really right when he says he doesn’t build tiered headphones (good, better, best) just different flavors.  I love all my ZMFs for different reasons.  One thing they all have in common, they are works of art!  The Atrium sounds the most expansive on the Pendant SE, followed by the RH-5, followed by my iFi Gryphon.  The Gryphon is a truly excellent portable solution.  My VC and Aoleus particularly sound fantastic paired with it.


----------



## iFi audio

4LoveOfSound said:


> The Atrium sounds the most expansive on the Pendant SE, followed by the RH-5, followed by my iFi Gryphon. The Gryphon is a truly excellent portable solution. My VC and Aoleus particularly sound fantastic paired with it.



Thanks, this means a lot for us, really. Before xDSD Gryphon's release we knew that it's really something special in comparison to our other portable and transportable DAC/amp devices, but nothing beats reading about how you folks here on HF see this particular product. May it serve you well, thanks  !


----------



## nwavesailor

Some of us remember this classic song and it’s dedicated to Wes S 

“Don’t Bogard those Hytron’s, my friend, pass them over to me!“


----------



## Wes S (Apr 11, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> Some of us remember this classic song and it’s dedicated to Wes S
> 
> “Don’t Bogard those Hytron’s, my friend, pass them over to me!“


LOL and sorry ya'll!   If there was ever a tube to hoard. . . the early Hytron 12BH7 is definitely one of them.

My Atticus and VC both sing to their full potential with this tube.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

@Wes S have you ever tried a Raytheon black plate triple mica windmill getter 5814?  I think I remember you saying the double mica versions were better????


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S have you ever tried a Raytheon black plate triple mica windmill getter 5814?  I think I remember you saying the double mica versions were better????


I have not actually heard the black plate triple mica version of the Raytheon 5814, but have been a little curious about that one as well.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Well I figured out which Ken-Rad is making the crackle noise.  It does it in the Pendant too


----------



## bcowen

4LoveOfSound said:


> Well I figured out which Ken-Rad is making the crackle noise.  It does it in the Pendant too


Resoldering the pins might fix it.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 14, 2022)

The legendary Hytron 12BH7 in it's earliest versions. . .and they change construction a bit going from 50', 51', and then 52'.  Interesting thing is that these tubes all have the date codes still visible on them, and with the early Hytron version (not bought by CBS yet) the raised D Getter is the earliest, of which I originally thought the Angled Square Getter was the earliest.  They sure did some interesting things in the early days, like the dual support rods going from mica to mica on the version made in 50', and as it usually goes with tubes the earliest version is the one I prefer the most.  Don't get me wrong though, all 3 versions are quite close in sound.  I find it quite interesting, that you can see the evolution of the design and where CBS picked up and bought out Hytron taking over the Angled Square Getter design as their first and then in the 60's they brought back the Raised D Getter again.  As someone that has seen and owned quite a bit of older NOS tubes, it always amazes me how quickly the inner construction of tubes changed/evolved in the early days.


 Left to right - 50' (Raised D Getter Dual Support Rods), 51' (Angled D Getter), 52' (Angled Square Getter)







All 3 of these early version Hytron's are legit, and worth the hunt folks.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 14, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Well I figured out which Ken-Rad is making the crackle noise.  It does it in the Pendant too


Bummer about the noisy Ken-Rad!  The Pendant is great at weeding out the bad tubes, as it will definitely let you know if you have one.

I hope you are able to find a replacement, as I know you love that tube.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Bummer about the noisy Ken-Rad!  The Pendant is great at weeding out the bad tubes, as it will definitely let you know if you have one.
> 
> I hope you are able to find a replacement, as I know you love that tube.


It’s actually worse in the Rogue. I was surprised. Fortunately I have a pair of these so still good with the Pendant SE, just a no go in the Rogue. Not the end of the World, I put my second on hand fav back in there, the lovely Sylvania’s!  I had found a set of the early Hytron’s, but SOMEONE snatched them out from under me lol. You snooze you lose.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 14, 2022)

Nothing better than a short listening session before work to start the day off and put me in a better state of mind.   

Got to love that early morning tube glow!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I cleaned the pins really good with a brass brush and some contact cleaner and I may have solved the problem.  So far so good.....  This tube really makes my new Atrium's sing!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The 51’s are good to go after cleaning the pins and I just bought a set of 1952’s. Hopefully they sound the same. The construction looks the same.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 14, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> The 51’s are good to go after cleaning the pins and I just bought a set of 1952’s. Hopefully they sound the same. The construction looks the same.


That's awesome cleaning the pins worked out for you!  I hear about that working for people all the time, but strangely enough it's never worked for me and I have tried that with quite a few tubes over the years.  Curious what contact cleaner did you use, and also what kind of noise were you getting?


----------



## nwavesailor

Just be careful to use any of these VERY sparingly!

In a past life I  replaced many 9 pin sockets where too much ‘enhancer’ was applied. A little goes a LONG way so go light whatever you use…..


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I read sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Figured I had nothing to lose.  It was a crackling noise like crinkling wax paper or tinfoil, something like that.  I was home today getting my sprinkler system fixed so my Pendant was on all day and I was listening most of it.  Lucky me!  No noise at all after cleaning the pins.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I read sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Figured I had nothing to lose.  It was a crackling noise like crinkling wax paper or tinfoil, something like that.  I was home today getting my sprinkler system fixed so my Pendant was on all day and I was listening most of it.  Lucky me!  No noise at all after cleaning the pins.


Thanks for the info and pics!


----------



## bcowen

4LoveOfSound said:


> I read sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Figured I had nothing to lose.  It was a crackling noise like crinkling wax paper or tinfoil, something like that.  I was home today getting my sprinkler system fixed so my Pendant was on all day and I was listening most of it.  Lucky me!  No noise at all after cleaning the pins.


Be sure to clean your sockets too.  They can also cause issues with spurious noises if they get really dirty.  Pipe cleaners work great for octal sockets, and the things below work great for noval sockets. Just be sure to spray the cleaner on the applicator (not directly into the socket).

https://www.amazon.com/Whaline-Micr...eee850dfd&pd_rd_wg=oUocz&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mi


----------



## Wes S (Apr 15, 2022)

I though this was kind of cool. . .I have collected all the earliest versions of my current favorite tube, and here is the evolution of the Hytron 12BH7 becoming the CBS 12BH7A. 





Hytron 50' (Raised D Getter), Hytron 51' (Angled D Getter), Hytron 52' (Angled Square Getter), CBS-Hytron 53' (Angled Square Getter), CBS 58' (Raised D Getter)


----------



## nwavesailor

Karl Marx was right. 

 There is OBVIOUSLY a need to redistribute the Hytron wealth!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Karl Marx was right.
> 
> There is OBVIOUSLY a need to redistribute the Hytron wealth!


LOL!

 My Hytron's. . .


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Karl Marx was right.
> 
> There is OBVIOUSLY a need to redistribute the Hytron wealth!


…also (paraphrasing)…tubes are the opiate of the Wes….🤣🤣🤣


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 16, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> @Wes S have you ever tried a Raytheon black plate triple mica windmill getter 5814?  I think I remember you saying the double mica versions were better????


They’re a little easier to get than the double mica. They can be found pretty much anywhere. I’ve been wondering about this one as well. The triple mica design should reduce noise which might contribute to more detail.

A tube I can highly recommend for the tone heads here (with adapter) is a Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231. The mids are very clear, the bass is super dynamic, there’s smoothness and welcome tone in droves but don’t expect the most expansive stage or detail. If you truly want more clarity I would suggest the Ken Rad Black Plate Copper Cathode VT-231. All you need are 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapters. I can’t imagine clearer mids. Vocals are as sharp as a knife and are very easy to follow along. Same great bass and no sharp treble. Ken Rad makes some great tubes particuarly if you prefer tonality over absolute detail.


----------



## jonathan c

hikaru12 said:


> They’re a little easier to get than the double mica. They can be found pretty much anywhere. I’ve been wondering about this one as well. The triple mica design should reduce noise which might contribute to more detail.


All else equal (usually not), would not a triple mica tube sound better than a double mica equivalent because of: taller plates and greater structural rigidity?


----------



## hikaru12

jonathan c said:


> All else equal (usually not), would not a triple mica tube sound better than a double mica equivalent because of: taller plates and greater structural rigidity?


In terms of micro phonics yes but the double micas are older which the general rule of thumb is that older tubes sound better (better cathode material, better vacuum etc.) That may be the case with these tubes. I can’t really comment on them as I’ve only heard the double mica and found them a bit too forward for my tastes.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 17, 2022)

After owning these for a few years and only using them for an hour or 2 in a LP, I finally tried the Tele G73-R in my BB.  It is a very nice tube, top to bottom with great detail retrieval and no brittle top end. There is an almost eerie realism on many recordings.
I can see why some folks on the Riviera AIC-10 site are getting excited about this Telefunken.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 17, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> After owning these for a few years and only using them for an hour or 2 in a LP, I finally tried the Tele G73-R in my BB.  It is a very nice tube, top to bottom with great detail retrieval and no brittle top end. There is an almost eerie realism on many recordings.
> I can see why some folks on the Riviera AIC-10 site are getting excited about this Telefunken.


LOL! Nice try, but not gonna bite, and especially for that kind of money.  Those AIC-10 guys with their Abyss headphones chasing transparency and detail, can have them all (and can afford them).

I am fine with this one (at $25 a piece), with it's weighty notes, euphonic texture, holographic stage to die for and "thereness". . .what else could one want? 









jonathan c said:


> All else equal (usually not), would not a triple mica tube sound better than a double mica equivalent because of: taller plates and greater structural rigidity?


There is a reason why one can find the triple mica everywhere and the double mica has been hunted to extinction.  Early is often better. . .

Also, the double mica has taller plates than the triple mica version. . .


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 17, 2022)

Since the maniacal 'Wes S Tubes, Inc' has single handadly bought any and all of the available worldwide stock of the mythical Hytron, what is a mere mortal to do in procuring this unicorn tube?


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 17, 2022)

Wes S said:


> I am fine with this one _all of these_ (at $25 a piece), with its _their_ weighty notes, euphonic texture, holographic stage to die for and "thereness"._ A monopoly on great sound_ …what else could one want?
> 
> 
> FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Since the maniacal 'Wes S Tubes, Inc' has single handadly bought any and all of the available worldwide stock of the mythical Hytron, what is a mere mortal to do in procuring this unicorn tube?


Kind of pricey, but sometimes....who cares, right?   

https://tubeworldexpress.com/produc...os-1960-9-2-13ma?_pos=35&_sid=6fb7c9893&_ss=r
https://tubeworldexpress.com/produc...960-era-8-6-12ma?_pos=39&_sid=6fb7c9893&_ss=r
https://tubeworldexpress.com/produc...60-era-8-4-9-0ma?_pos=42&_sid=6fb7c9893&_ss=r


----------



## nwavesailor

Yeah, I looked at those options from Tube World.
Not the earliest version with the Hytron white ink............but perhaps Wes bough all those at any rate!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My 1952 GE pewter plate 5814's arrived.  Comparing it to the 1951 Ken-Rad pewter plate 5814, they look identical and very importantly, they sound the same!  I'm very happy!   So far, these are my favorite tubes in both the Pendant SE and the Rogue RH-5.   I haven't given up on finding a Hytron 12BH7, but I'm in no rush.


----------



## hikaru12

4LoveOfSound said:


> My 1952 GE pewter plate 5814's arrived.  Comparing it to the 1951 Ken-Rad pewter plate 5814, they look identical and very importantly, they sound the same!  I'm very happy!   So far, these are my favorite tubes in both the Pendant SE and the Rogue RH-5.   I haven't given up on finding a Hytron 12BH7, but I'm in no rush.


If you’re looking for some of those in 12AX7 format I have a pair. I agree they sound what Ken Rad is known for - their bass and dynamics.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 23, 2022)

Happy Saturday and Happy Listening!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Happy Saturday and Happy Listening!


I'm listening to my "new" 1952 GE's right now!  I need to plug the new ZMF Atrium.  These headphones sound simply amazing.  Looking forward to a closed back version.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'm listening to my "new" 1952 GE's right now!  I need to plug the new ZMF Atrium.  These headphones sound simply amazing.  Looking forward to a closed back version.


Nice!  I am right there with ya on the looking forward to the closed back version Atrium, and will be buying a set of those for sure.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Happy Saturday and Happy Listening!


….crappy chores 😒 —> happy listening 🥲…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> ….crappy chores 😒 —> happy listening 🥲…


I retitled the "HoneyDo" list to the "HoneyDue" list.  Now she can add stuff at will and I won't ever have to actually do anything until sometime in the future (which could be months....or years). 😂


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I retitled the "HoneyDo" list to the "HoneyDue" list.  Now she can add stuff at will and I won't ever have to actually do anything until sometime in the future (which could be months....or years). 😂


Great idea! AND (drum roll..) if the list gets long enough / old enough, the statute of limitations _will_ apply…🙂🤣🙂🤣…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Great idea! AND (drum roll..) if the list gets long enough / old enough, the statute of limitations _will_ apply…🙂🤣🙂🤣…


LOL!  That, and auto-correct.  Like with all the stuff that needs done to the house.  At some point we'll sell the house.


----------



## nwavesailor

Didn't catch the unedited post regarding TS 12BH7?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 24, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> Didn't catch the unedited post regarding TS 12BH7?


LOL!  I had second thoughts about letting the cat out of the bag on this one, so I deleted the original post.   However, I just purchased a couple more (backups for my backups) so it's time to share.  My addiction got the best of me once again, and I am hear to report that the Tung Sol 12BH7A  Black Oval Plate D Getter is another winner and is every bit as good (but slightly different) as the early Hytron's and much better than the Raytheon.  Compared to the Hytron, the TS has tighter bass, is more forward in the mids (especially vocals), and has a bit better speed, detail and transparency.  Compared to the Raytheon, they are both forward in the mids, but the TS is more transparent and has better speed and a larger stage and is better in pretty much all regards.  Honestly the Raytheon just can't hang with the other two and does not get any more listening time from me.  The TS is very well balanced top to bottom, and has that "on stage forwardness" type presentation to where I feel like I am the one doing the singing, with sounds of instruments flying all around my head.  The staging I am getting with the TS really is top notch, and it throws a very expansive and holographic stage, and is just as immersive if not a bit more than the Hytron.  The stand out traits of the TS Black Oval Plate D Getter are the speed, tightness/refinement, impact, detail and holographic stage.  So, for those who have tried the CBS-Hytron or Raytheon 12BH7 and thought they were a bit too warm or slow, I recommend giving the Tung Sol (BOPDG) a try.

Tung Sol 12BH7A Black Oval Plate D Getter 59'






Happy Hunting, Rolling, and Listening!


----------



## nwavesailor

IMO, TS didn't make a bad tube. I have 6SN7 black glass round plates and many 5687's
I think I'll pass for now since the Tele G73-R sounds so amazing. Even my favorite dual 6J5's (also TS) can't touch the Tele......close, but no cigar!

You are so patient and good at finding great tubes and at a bargain that I'm certain that you will score a Tele for a good price and then your jaw will REALLY be on the floor!!!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 24, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> IMO, TS didn't make a bad tube. I have 6SN7 black glass round plates and many 5687's
> I think I'll pass for now since the Tele G73-R sounds so amazing. Even my favorite dual 6J5's (also TS) can't touch the Tele......close, but no cigar!
> 
> You are so patient and good at finding great tubes and at a bargain that I'm certain that you will score a Tele for a good price and then your jaw will REALLY be on the floor!!!


That Tele is not even on my radar anymore (to damn expensive and it's not a 12BH7), but glad its working out for you, and sounds like we both are happy with our current tubes.

Speaking of that Tele of yours and some food for thought, is that there are several versions of the G73-R said to all sound awesome but slightly different. . .


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Purchased a 1952 Ken-Rad 12BH7 this morning.  I’m looking forward to trying it out. Couldn’t find much info on it.  We shall see…..


----------



## bcowen

4LoveOfSound said:


> Purchased a 1952 Ken-Rad 12BH7 this morning.  I’m looking forward to trying it out. Couldn’t find much info on it.  We shall see…..


Hopefully it still has the Ken-Rad soul to it (GE bought Ken-Rad in 1945).


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 24, 2022)

Wes S said:


> That Tele is not even on my radar anymore (to damn expensive and it's not a 12BH7), but glad its working out for you, and sounds like we both are happy with our current tubes.



You have found cheap as well as some exotic and expensive tubes through out the years on this journey. Is the G73-R worth $500, maybe not. You, more than most,  really like great tubes so don't rule out finding a bargain. I've always said you are patient and wait for opportunities. Yes, the 12BH7 are good but you would be floored when you hear a G73-R. Sure, the guys who own the AIC-10 have deep pockets and can afford these Tele's and I get that. Keep your eyes open. One sold for $1-200 recently on the HF classifieds! You can still help HeadFi members with bargain tubes but you owe it to yourself to try this gem!

 Life is too short not to have the BEST tubes and you know that is true!!!


Wes S said:


> Speaking of that Tele of yours and some food for thought, is that there are several versions of the G73-R said to all sound awesome but slightly different. . .


I am good with the version (still for sale at TUBE Depot) I have:






I trust this seller even though I bought for them for far less a few years ago.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> You have found cheap as well as some exotic and expensive tubes through out the years on this journey. Is the G73-R worth $500, maybe not. You, more than most,  really like great tubes so don't rule out finding a bargain. I've always said you are patient and wait for opportunities. Yes, the 12BH7 are good but you would be floored when you hear a G73-R. Sure, the guys who own the AIC-10 have deep pockets and can afford these Tele's and I get that. Keep your eyes open. One sold for $1-200 recently on the HF classifieds! You can still help HeadFi members with bargain tubes but you owe it to yourself to try this gem!
> 
> Life is too short not to have the BEST tubes and you know that is true!!!
> 
> ...


Still not gonna bite.   I will never spend that kind of money on tubes ever again.  Life is too short to waste money on exotic tubes, when I can buy a Tung Sol or Hytron 12bh7 for $50 and be perfectly happy.  Also, the 12BH7 I have may be affordable in price, but they sound better than any exotic tube I have heard.  Also, we have different gear and preferences, so I can only imagine we would land on different tubes as our favorites.  I for one love the stage presentation and added note weight I get with the 12BH7 (especially the early Hytron’s and Tung Sol) as the driver tube in the Pendant SE, and don't want to loose any of that going with a 12AU7.  Also, if I had a warmer sounding AmpsandSound amp like a BB or Mogwai SE, I might probably be more tempted to hear a Tele G73-R, but with the neutral sounding Pendant SE I am looking to add note weight and the 12BH7 is king.

Lastly, if the only 12BH7 you have heard is the Raytheon, then I get why you aren't impressed.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

It appears @Wes S has not depleted the world’s supply of Tung Sol 12BH7’s. I found one, a 1954. I didn’t hesitate this time Wes. Wasn’t giving you a chance to snatch it away!  Will have some fun comparing my current favorite to the incoming Ken-Rad and Tung Sol 12BH7’s.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> It appears @Wes S has not depleted the world’s supply of Tung Sol 12BH7’s. I found one, a 1954. I didn’t hesitate this time Wes. Wasn’t giving you a chance to snatch it away!  Will have some fun comparing my current favorite to the incoming Ken-Rad and Tung Sol 12BH7’s.


Nice!

54'?  That might be the earliest I have heard of for the Tung Sol 12BH7.   Curious, does it have black plates, and if you could share a pic that would be awesome?  I have been studying the internals of the Tung Sol D Getter 12BH7 and so far they appear to be the same from 55' -61' from what I have gathered, so that's why I am curious about the one you have coming from 54'.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 25, 2022)

Yup! I think the US Department of Justice or Federal Trade commission may be considering a case on Wes and his actions. I think it’s called tube Monopoly!

With the primary, backup and backup up FOR the backup in various vintages he has the market cornered🙄

He seems like such a nice guy🦈


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I’ll post pictures for you


Wes S said:


> Nice!
> 
> 54'?  That might be the earliest I have heard of for the Tung Sol 12BH7.   Curious, does it have black plates, and if you could share a pic that would be awesome?  I have been studying the internals of the Tung Sol D Getter 12BH7 and so far they appear to be the same from 55' -61' from what I have gathered, so that's why I am curious about the one you have coming from 54'.


my bad, it’s a 1956


----------



## hikaru12

The Raytheon Windmill getter ended up being a total fail on my end - not really worth the asking price but it is a very cool tube to look at. The markings and getter is very unique. It's a bit too warm with a bit of muted detail. As always, it's all about synergy with your system. Just because a tube if highly touted it may not work in your system. I think I'll look at brighter tubes next.


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Yup! I think the US Department of Justice or Federal Trade commission may be considering a case on Wes and his actions. I think it’s called tube *Monopoly*.


….do not pass purchase tubes, go directly to jail…😳


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> ….do not pass purchase tubes, go directly to jail…😳


LOL! Good one!


----------



## nwavesailor

In this jail you can only have access to the worst tubes GE ever produced, nothing more!


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> In this jail you can only have access to the worst tubes GE ever produced, nothing *less !*


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## nwavesailor

I know ***, but not FTFY although I think there may be the same ‘word’ (or 2)  used!?!?


----------



## nwavesailor

It wouldn’t let me post F.  F.  S.


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> In this jail you can only have access to the *worst tubes GE ever produced*, nothing more!


Which would be, like, all of them.


----------



## nwavesailor

YUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"GE, We bring Good things to Life"

...........except for our lifeless tubes that are the WORST use of glass and vacuum............. EVER!!!!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 27, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Which would be, like, all of them.


Well. . .not actually all of them.   This one is pretty special and was made by GE, but I think this is definitely a fluke.

The GE 5814 Pewter Plate is actually in my top 5 of all time.  I also know of someone else (@4LoveOfSound), that is quite fond of this tube as well.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 27, 2022)

Anyone looking for some early CBS and Hytron 12BH7. . . https://www.ebay.com/itm/255507081406?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=00abfefd89e045119e529f6d952af21c&bu=44242833114&ut=RU&osub=-1~1&crd=20220426070737&segname=11021&sojTags=ch=ch,bu=bu,ut=ut,osub=osub,crd=crd,segname=segname,chnl=mkcid

This is a great seller, that actually test for noise, and I have had success with him in the past.  Get them while they are hot!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Well. . .not actually all of them.   This one is pretty special and was made by GE, but I think this is definitely a fluke.
> 
> The GE 5814 Pewter Plate is actually in my top 5 of all time.  I also know of someone else (@4LoveOfSound), that is quite fond of this tube as well.
> 
> Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.


True, I am quite fond of this one.  However, I believe it's more Ken-Rad than GE.  I believe this particular make is Ken-Rad's design, but produced by GE.  The only other GE I have heard is a mid 60's triple mica that's no where near the same league as the early 50's Pewter Plate.

The Ken-Rad 12BH7 should arrive Saturday and the TungSol 12BH7 should arrive Monday.  Fun listening ahead!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Well. . .not actually all of them.   This one is pretty special and was made by GE, but I think this is definitely a fluke.
> 
> The GE 5814 Pewter Plate is actually in my top 5 of all time.  I also know of someone else (@4LoveOfSound), that is quite fond of this tube as well.
> 
> *Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. *



LOL!  As many tubes as they made, it's only logical they screwed up occasionally and made some good sounding ones.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  As many tubes as they made, it's only logical they screwed up occasionally and made some good sounding ones.


GE was (is) so screwed up that it would screw up trying not to screw up on purpose…🤨😳🤪…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> GE was (is) so screwed up that it would screw up trying not to screw up on purpose…🤨😳🤪…


My brother-in-law has worked been employed there for 35 years.  Pretty much sums it up.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The Ken-Rad 12BH7 arrived a day early. Guess what I’m listening to?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 29, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> The Ken-Rad 12BH7 arrived a day early. Guess what I’m listening to?


Nice!  So, how does that tube sound?  I did see one Grey Plate Ken-Rad 52' get sold on Ebay and I wonder if that is the one you bought.  Looks a lot like some G.E. versions I have seen.


----------



## Wes S

I recently took a break from my full sized rig, as I got bit by the iem bug again and had not listened with my Pendant & VC for a week or so until last night.  I have been buring in the Tung Sol 12BH7 Black Oval Plate D Getter though for the past week as well, and with what I was hearing last night, it has just taken the poll position for me with it's amazing holographic stage and killer detail, all while being completely fatigue free.  The impact and texture are first class as well, and this tube has elevated my listening experience once again.  Sounds fly all around my head with the crazy awesome staging, and the detail and nuance coming through is top notch.  The sound is so addictive, that I am already up at 4am listening again.   Of note, I have this tube paired up with Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters and a Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter, and combined with the Tung Sol it's perfection.

This tube is legit.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Nice!  So, how does that tube sound?  I did see one Grey Plate Ken-Rad 52' get sold on Ebay and I wonder if that is the one you bought.  Looks a lot like some G.E. versions I have seen.


That’s it!  That was probably me.  After a short listening time last night, I would say it sounds a lot like the early 50’s 5814.  The sound stage is huge though!  It sounded excellent right from turn on unlike the CBS that really benefited from an hour or so of warm up.  I am definitely a fan of the Ken-Rad sound.  The TungSol is still on track for Monday.  It will be fun to compare the 2.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> That’s it!  That was probably me.  After a short listening time last night, I would say it sounds a lot like the early 50’s 5814.  The sound stage is huge though!  It sounded excellent right from turn on unlike the CBS that really benefited from an hour or so of warm up.  I am definitely a fan of the Ken-Rad sound.  The TungSol is still on track for Monday.  It will be fun to compare the 2.


Cool!  There is nothing better than finding a "house sound" that jives with your preferences, and sounds like Ken-Rad is your thing.  Having heard both house sounds myself, I think the Tung Sol and Ken-Rad are 2 of the better ones when it comes to transparency, detail, staging and bass, and I am really looking forward to how you like that Tung-Sol when it arrives.  Happy Listening my friend.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Cool!  There is nothing better than finding a "house sound" that jives with your preferences, and sounds like Ken-Rad is your thing.  Having heard both house sounds myself, I think the Tung Sol and Ken-Rad are 2 of the better ones when it comes to transparency, detail, staging and bass, and I am really looking forward to how you like that Tung-Sol when it arrives.  Happy Listening my friend.


The TungSol is arriving early. Might be here today, if not tomorrow. Won’t have to wait until Monday!  The Ken-Rad definitely is transparent and detailed, a little more so than the 5814 version. Surprisingly, the 5814 might have a slight edge on bass.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The TungSol is in the Pendant. Wow!  The Ken-Rad is good, but this TungSol is amazing!  Nice find @Wes S  Deeper bass than the Ken-Rad, beautiful sparkly highs. Nice linear sound. I think the Ken-Rad has an edge on stage width. The TungSol is a little more forward. Both excellent and I’ll listen to them both.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> The TungSol is in the Pendant. Wow!  The Ken-Rad is good, but this TungSol is amazing!  Nice find @Wes S  Deeper bass than the Ken-Rad, beautiful sparkly highs. Nice linear sound. I think the Ken-Rad has an edge on stage width. The TungSol is a little more forward. Both excellent and I’ll listen to them both.


Awesome!  Glad you are digging it.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 30, 2022)

So ladies and gentleman, boys and girls..............TS, Hytron, HiVac or Tele G73-R????????????????

I am really liking the G73-R 

By the time you spend $25 here and $50 there ya can own this rare Tele.
NO, you may not have a back up......... and a back up for that backup............ and yet MORE backups but you can have perhaps one of the best 12AU7's ever made.  How many of us have really ever gotten into any of our backups at any rate???

We were all chasing Footscary production and Funkwert tubes with foil getters just a few moths ago.
There will always be more tubes that are 'rediscovered' and Wes, to his credit, has found many of these gems.

We are lucky to have amps that respond well to these tubes and there are, IMO, WAY more gems than clunkers for the ampsandsound offerings!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> So ladies and gentleman, boys and girls..............TS, Hytron, HiVac or Tele G73-R????????????????
> 
> I am really liking the G73-R
> 
> ...


Enjoy the Tele man, don't let our enthusiasm for affordable tubes working so well in the Pendant SE, deter your enjoyment from that rare gem in the BB.  I imagine these 12BH7 we are digging so much, are too dark for the BB anyway.

Different strokes for different folks (Different tubes for different amps). . .


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2022)

Rolled in a different rectifier (Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter) and the extra bit of bass drive, speed, detail and stage expansion it brings, pairs very nicely with the Tungsram EL84's and Tung Sol 12BH7.  My Atticus's bass slam is hitting as hard as ever and the mids sound absolutely sublime with this tube combo. 






Happy Saturday and happy listening!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> So ladies and gentleman, boys and girls..............TS, Hytron, HiVac or Tele G73-R????????????????
> 
> I am really liking the G73-R
> 
> ...


I had to whip out a backup not too long ago.  The treble on this one had incredible air and space initially, but it was all too fleeting.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2022)

bcowen said:


> I had to whip out a backup not too long ago.  The treble on this one had incredible air and space initially, but it was all too fleeting.


LOL and Wow!  Luckily, I have never had that happen.    However, I sure have had a tube or two go bad (noisy) on me over the years, and each time it was really nice knowing that I could continue to enjoy that sound I had come to know and love (and dialed in my system with) by having a backup. . . Heck, I can't even totally enjoy a tube, until I have secured a backup.  Peace of the mind is a good thing, and that's what backups bring.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I had to whip out a backup not too long ago.  The treble on this one had incredible air and space initially, but it was all too fleeting.


😳


----------



## bcowen (Apr 30, 2022)

Wes S said:


> LOL and Wow!  Luckily, I have never had that happen.    However, I sure have had a tube or two go bad (noisy) on me over the years, and each time it was really nice knowing that I could continue to enjoy that sound I had come to know and love (and dialed in my system with) by having a backup. . . Heck, I can't even totally enjoy a tube, until I have secured a backup.  Peace of the mind is a good thing, and that's what backups bring.


In all my years of tube rolling, that's actually the first one I've ever broken. Naturally I've had a number go noisy or badly microphonic or fail in some other way, but never shattered.  It was like a slow-motion train wreck as I saw it roll off the table, but was unable to get to it quickly enough. Landed on a carpeted floor, and a 9-pin or small octal would have likely survived that without issue. But not a 6AS7G....glass is too thin and too big I guess.  On the plus side, it was a rather bland sounding tube.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I put the Ken-Rad 12BH7 back in.  These 2 tubes have a completely different presentation.  I'm listening to Nora Jones Come Away with Me via Roon.  This Ken-Rad sound stage is super wide with each instrument in it's own place.  HIGHLY detailed sound.  I can distinctly hear the bass guitar strings buzz on a couple tracks.  Her voice is slightly forward of the instruments.  Highs are smooth.  The TungSol definitely has more bass, but it bleeds slightly into the lower mids I feel.  The sound stage is more intimate, the instruments not separated like the KR.  Her voice still slightly forward of the instruments.  The highs definitely have more sparkle, but could bight a light too much for me on occasion.  This might smooth out some with more hours on the tube.  The same tracks I distinctly heard the bass guitar strings buzz with the KR, I could hear something with the TS, but I was like "was that string buzz I just heard?"  I could hear it, but just not as clear.  I really like them both because they are so different in presentation.  @Wes S you might want to try this early 50's Ken-Rad.... 

I just realized my TungSol is not a black plate.  It's a 1956, grey plate D getter.  So my impressions are probably different than Wes' black plates.  Should have payed more attention!  Still a nice sounding tube for my collection.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> In all my years of tube rolling, that's actually the first one I've ever broken. Naturally I've had a number go noisy or badly microphonic or fail in some other way, but never shattered.  It was like a slow-motion train wreck as I saw it roll off the table, but was unable to get to it quickly enough. Landed on a carpeted floor, and a 9-pin or small octal would have likely survived that without issue. But not a 6AS7G....glass is too thin and too big I guess.  On the plus side, it was a rather bland sounding tube.


…the only excitement that the tube provided was during the fall to its demise…😒😄…


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 30, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I put the Ken-Rad 12BH7 back in.  These 2 tubes have a completely different presentation.  I'm listening to Nora Jones Come Away with Me via Roon.  This Ken-Rad sound stage is super wide with each instrument in it's own place.  HIGHLY detailed sound.  I can distinctly hear the bass guitar strings buzz on a couple tracks.  Her voice is slightly forward of the instruments.  Highs are smooth.  The TungSol definitely has more bass, but it bleeds slightly into the lower mids I feel.  The sound stage is more intimate, the instruments not separated like the KR.  Her voice still slightly forward of the instruments.  The highs definitely have more sparkle, but could bight a light too much for me on occasion.  This might smooth out some with more hours on the tube.  The same tracks I distinctly heard the bass guitar strings buzz with the KR, I could hear something with the TS, but I was like "was that string buzz I just heard?"  I could hear it, but just not as clear.  I really like them both because they are so different in presentation.  @Wes S you might want to try this early 50's Ken-Rad....
> 
> I just realized my TungSol is not a black plate.  It's a 1956, grey plate D getter.  So my impressions are probably different than Wes' black plates.  Should have payed more attention!  Still a nice sounding tube for my collection.


Made me nervous there - Wes impressions was that the Tung Sol was a cleaner sounding tube. I have yet to find a replacement for my CBS so I decided to buy the black oval plate. My hope is I’ll extract just a little more detail out of with this tube. It’s either this or a Siemens now at this point. I got just the right amount of slam for my satisfaction now it’s just refining the sound and trying to extract the last bit of detail while keeping everything sounding natural.



nwavesailor said:


> So ladies and gentleman, boys and girls..............TS, Hytron, HiVac or Tele G73-R????????????????
> 
> I am really liking the G73-R
> 
> ...


I’m with you - the occasional pricey over the top tube is cool as long as you balance it with cheaper backups. I feel like I’d eat a $500 tubes life in no time. That’s why it’s important for me to keep some cheap backups.


----------



## nwavesailor

hikaru12 said:


> I’m with you - the occasional pricey over the top tube is cool as long as you balance it with cheaper backups. I feel like I’d eat a $500 tubes life in no time. That’s why it’s important for me to keep some cheap backups.


The G73-R reportedly have a long life of 40,000 hours so, over time, they are actually cheap AND a bargain !


----------



## Wes S (May 1, 2022)

And then there were two. . .




HYTRON 12BH7 Black Oval Plate D Getter (Dual Support Rods 50' OG Version)  & Tung Sol BOPDG

I have been going back and forth between these 2 fantastic tubes, and they both bring something different but equally awesome to the mix.  The Tung Sol is more forward and intimate with incredible bass and vocals, and has a very controlled "HiFi" like sound and sounds like you are in a well damped room or recording studio.  There is more of a mids focus overall with the Tung Sol and the midbass slam and texture is first class and the vocals are to die for (being forward, clean and lifelike).  Due to the forwardness of the Tung Sol, the staging is tight and has the 3Dness in full effect.  Now on to the early Hytron, and it's more open and raw sounding with a much larger stage and more of a concert hall or live show type feel, with reverb and decay for days.  Also, the Hytron is more forceful and powerful sounding with better extension at both ends and the instruments and vocals are positioned a bit further back and more in line with each other as well.  Although they are different in their presentations, both tubes have good note weight, detail for days, and are fatigue free and put me "there" and work well with both my Atticus and VC.  I have to say it's really nice finding two tubes of equal caliber, but with completely different presentations, so I can switch things up and keep things fresh just like I do with my two ZMF headphones and two iems.

Keep it fresh and happy listening!


----------



## Bassic Needs

I'm no longer seeing the Pendant listed for sale on ZMF'S site: https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/amps-dacs


----------



## hikaru12 (May 4, 2022)

I finally got the Tung Sol in. It’s definitely more detailed especially micro detail. I’m hearing clearer background sounds. It is still warm and smooth without overdoing it and very linear similar to the CBS I’ve been using for a while. I’m still getting used to the slightly lower gain of the BH7 tubes. Thankfully, mids aren’t as forward as I was afraid of (the Raytheon’s sounded downright aggressive at times). There’s not much to hate about this tube at all. 

I’m finally getting my custom speakers in tomorrow so curious if the detail will translate to the big stage as well. Overall a very enjoyable tube! I can’t say it’s killed my CBS though but who cares?

(In a nice Koa veneer inspired by Zach as I always loved this type of wood but never got the chance to get one of his cans in it)


----------



## BudKine

Bassic Needs said:


> I'm no longer seeing the Pendant listed for sale on ZMF'S site: https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/amps-dacs


I noticed that about an hour ago and came here to see if there was some news.


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2022)

Bassic Needs said:


> I'm no longer seeing the Pendant listed for sale on ZMF'S site: https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/amps-dacs


Interesting and perhaps they are updating their website, or is the amp being discontinued, or is something else coming out soon. . .?

@zach915m any word on this?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I can’t afford a new replacement.  I just bought the Atrium and have a drawer full of tubes for the Pendant!


----------



## zach915m

Wes S said:


> Interesting and perhaps they are updating their website, or is the amp being discontinued, or is something else coming out soon. . .?
> 
> @zach915m or @ampsandsound -  Fellas, any word on this?


We will no longer be selling the Pendant. Any further info I will let ampsandsound fill you guys in! 

We will have the Cayin 300b MK II amps in stock soon (should be on the site next week, zmf owners email for price) and are working on a special collaboration with Decware on an OTL made just for ZMF as well as a solid state amp with JDS Labs that will have selectable impedances.


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I can’t afford a new replacement.  I just bought the Atrium and have a drawer full of tubes for the Pendant!


Personally, I am all dialed in with tubes, cables, DAC and headphones with my SE, and don't have any desire to change or "upgrade", but I am a little curious. . .


Edit - I am very interested in the Decware OTL!


----------



## Wes S

zach915m said:


> We will no longer be selling the Pendant. Any further info I will let ampsandsound fill you guys in!
> 
> We will have the Cayin 300b MK II amps in stock soon (should be on the site next week, zmf owners email for price) and are working on a special collaboration with Decware on an OTL made just for ZMF as well as a solid state amp with JDS Labs that will have selectable impedances.


That's sad and exciting at the same time.  Thanks for sharing Zach, and I have been interested in an OTL for a while and a Decware/ZMF collaboration sounds amazing.


----------



## Bassic Needs

zach915m said:


> We will no longer be selling the Pendant. Any further info I will let ampsandsound fill you guys in!
> 
> We will have the Cayin 300b MK II amps in stock soon (should be on the site next week, zmf owners email for price) and are working on a special collaboration with Decware on an OTL made just for ZMF as well as a solid state amp with JDS Labs that will have selectable impedances.


Thanks for sharing Zach. I love the transparency you bring to your customers.


----------



## QuantumQ

zach915m said:


> We will no longer be selling the Pendant. Any further info I will let ampsandsound fill you guys in!
> 
> We will have the Cayin 300b MK II amps in stock soon (should be on the site next week, zmf owners email for price) and are working on a special collaboration with Decware on an OTL made just for ZMF as well as a solid state amp with JDS Labs that will have selectable impedance


Oooh.  That’s all very intriguing.  After Zach mentioned that they use JDS for QC, I picked one up (now 2) for my remote rigs, and it’s been an excellent solve. I do love me some 300b, but it’s the Decware OTL that’s piqued my interest most. Their current offerings use a different tube set than the Pendant, but I’m very intrigued what a collab will bring. Wait times might be a thing, I imagine.


----------



## zach915m

QuantumQ said:


> Oooh.  That’s all very intriguing.  After Zach mentioned that they use JDS for QC, I picked one up (now 2) for my remote rigs, and it’s been an excellent solve. I do love me some 300b, but it’s the Decware OTL that’s piqued my interest most. Their current offerings use a different tube set than the Pendant, but I’m very intrigued what a collab will bring. Wait times might be a thing, I imagine.


Everything is coming together in the next few weeks, we are working with Decware to try to keep wait times down compared to their 1 year plus list right now, I'm hopeful we will have some inventory within the next few months!


----------



## nwavesailor

I considered a Decware amp before buying the BB. At that point the wait time was many months and there was not an option for a single volume pot.
 I now use my DAC for volume control with the BB but at that time I didn't want to have to reach over from my listening position to adjust 2 volume pots.


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> I considered a Decware amp before buying the BB. At that point the wait time was many months and there was not an option for a single volume pot.
> I now use my DAC for volume control with the BB but at that time I didn't want to have to reach over from my listening position to adjust 2 volume pots.


Me too before I went with the Pendant SE, but I didn't care for the tube type (6922) used for the driver.  I'm hopeful, the new OTL does not use 6922's. . .


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Me too before I went with the Pendant SE, but I didn't care for the tube type (6922) used for the driver.  I'm hopeful, the new OTL does not use 6922's. . .


Just found out the new OTL will be using the same driver tubes (6922), so looks like my Atrium Closed funds will remain secure and I will still be using that money to buy them the second they are released instead of the amp.  I know the Decware OTL is going to be incredible, but I just don't care for how rare and expensive the good 6922's have become lately.  As an avid tube roller, that's not the driver tube for me and my modest bank account.  I will own an OTL someday, but for now I think that money will be better spent on the Atrium Closed, as my Pendant SE will surely make them sing to their full potential as well.


----------



## jonathan c (May 5, 2022)

I’m with you, Wes. I have found that - in the Woo WA2 and the Woo WA3 OTLs which have ‘6922’ sockets - the best 12AT7s with the right adapters _trounce_ the best 6922s (including Telefunken)…👊🤕…


----------



## nwavesailor

Like many of you, I had the Liquid Platinum and it was 6922 based. Many of us used adapters for 12AU7, 12AT7, WE 369A/2C51 and many others.

Several or many of these same options will likely be usable with the Decware offering. Like the Pendant, it only takes a single so not the higher cost for a pair.


----------



## zach915m

nwavesailor said:


> Like many of you, I had the Liquid Platinum and it was 6922 based. Many of us used adapters for 12AU7, 12AT7, WE 369A/2C51 and many others.
> 
> Several or many of these same options will likely be usable with the Decware offering. Like the Pendant, it only takes a single so not the higher cost for a pair.


The new Decware amp will have much more going on inside the chassis than most OTL's, I've listened at length to the final version and it was tuned in harmony with the creation of the Atrium, as Steve had an early Atrium for over 6 months while working on the amp.  I really believe this will be the production OTL to have for dynamic ZMFs as it was designed just for us.  Will do a full video and will probably give me an excuse to drive to Decware and shoot some video as well.  We love the Decware team.

So anyways - definitely don't judge the amp based on what you've heard from other amps that use 6922 tubes.  And yeah you can definitely adapt to tons of other tubes as desired.


----------



## Wes S (May 6, 2022)

zach915m said:


> The new Decware amp will have much more going on inside the chassis than most OTL's, I've listened at length to the final version and it was tuned in harmony with the creation of the Atrium, as Steve had an early Atrium for over 6 months while working on the amp.  I really believe this will be the production OTL to have for dynamic ZMFs as it was designed just for us.  Will do a full video and will probably give me an excuse to drive to Decware and shoot some video as well.  We love the Decware team.
> 
> So anyways - definitely don't judge the amp based on what you've heard from other amps that use 6922 tubes.  And yeah you can definitely adapt to tons of other tubes as desired.


Good to know you can adapt to other tubes, and this OTL really is exciting news!  I know when you put your name behind a product and recommend it, that it is always top notch and something I am sure I will love (my entire system was bought from you and it's perfect).  Thanks again for the info Zach.  I can't wait for the video release to have all my other questions answered and to find out what is under the hood.

I have my 12AU7 to 6922 adapters ready to rock!


----------



## Louisiana

Please excuse me if this question has already been asked:
Is it still worth buying a Pedant *OG* these days, or would it be better to go for the SE?
Headphones used: LCD4 & HE1000se.

Thanks in advance


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Good to know you can adapt to other tubes, and this OTL really is exciting news!  I know when you put your name behind a product and recommend it, that it is always top notch and something I am sure I will love (my entire system was bought from you and it's perfect).  Thanks again for the info Zach.  I can't wait for the video release to have all my other questions answered and to find out what is under the hood.
> 
> I have my 12AU7 to 6922 adapters ready to rock!


No no no!…. adapters ready to ROLL…🤣🤪…


----------



## nwavesailor

This one is from the WAY back machine.

I am pretty sure when Wes S was a younger man, and a tube purist, he resisted the evil of the adapters. (He may still be against socket savers?) We got him on board, created a tube hunting monster and there was no going back!

I think this story is true but I could be wrong?!?!?!


----------



## Wes S (May 6, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> This one is from the WAY back machine.
> 
> I am pretty sure when Wes S was a younger man, and a tube purist, he resisted the evil of the adapters. (He may still be against socket savers?) We got him on board, created a tube hunting monster and there was no going back!
> 
> I think this story is true but I could be wrong?!?!?!


LOL!  That's a true story and I had a feeling that might come back around.   You were definitely one of the one's who convinced me to try adapters, and there was no going back after that.  My ears and sanity thank you, and my bank account says otherwise.  As for socket savers, you got that one right as well.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> LOL!  That's a true story and I had a feeling that might come back around.   You were definitely one of the one's who convinced me to try adapters, and there was no going back after that.  My ears and sanity thank you, and my bank account says otherwise.  As for socket savers, you got that one right as well.


…so…it’s time for budget adapters & wallet savers…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …so…it’s time for budget adapters & wallet savers…


I'd like to buy a wallet saver for my wife.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'd like to buy a wallet saver for my wife.


Implied: “I’d like to sell as a wallet saver my wife”…😳🤭…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Implied: “I’d like to sell as a wallet saver my wife”…😳🤭…


I'll shorten it:  I'd like to sell my wife.  But I'd probably get more for a GE tube.  LOL! 

(gonna log off and hide the computer now)


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'll shorten it:  I'd like to sell my wife.  But I'd probably get more for a GE tube.  LOL!
> 
> (gonna log off and hide the computer now)


If you use Google chrome, delete browsing history. If not, 🧎‍♂️🙏 ….🤣


----------



## nwavesailor

bcowen said:


> I'll shorten it:  I'd like to sell my wife.  But I'd probably get more for a GE tube.  LOL!
> 
> (gonna log off and hide the computer now)


YIKES! I hope she never reads this. It's funny to us, but we are kind of a whacky group and she may not be as  amused.............


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> YIKES! I hope she never reads this. It's funny to us, but we are kind of a whacky group and she may not be as  amused.............


Think of it this way:  we’re not hiding porn…just hiding Frank’s Electron Tube Data sheets…🤣🤪


----------



## hikaru12 (May 7, 2022)

These are interesting developments of late - Zach's right though - the circuit will ultimately affect the transparency and sound. All the components do interact with each other to ultimately change the 6922 into a great tube or awful. I don't think an OTL will match the transparency you get from the Pendant which is a SET (my personal favorite type of tube amp) but it might if boutique parts are used - similar to DNA's amps.

Anywho, I finally got some time to listen to a wide variety of tubes using only my speakers to get a feel for them. To note, they are very transparent but mid centric. They're not incredibly detailed but they are very revealing for vocals and any mid range instruments. They're my new personal benchmarks.

Here’s a look at one of them (foam surround helps tame some treble energy):




What I found out surprised me (combined with warm power tubes) I now rate my tubes as follows:

1. Raytheon Black Plate Double Mica 5814
2. Ken Rad VT-281 Black Glass
3. Raytheon 12BH7 Black Plate
4. Brimar CV4034
4. Tung Sol 12BH7 D getter

Least favorite:
1. CBS 5814
2. Tung Sol 12BH7 D getter

My reasoning is I think the 12BH7 tubes are imparting a little too much smoothness that affects the intelligibility of lyrics and specifically micro detail. The Raytheon's more aggressive tuning with better bass and great detail seems to make the mids super clear (although with no lushness) and micro detail is super easy to hear on it. The Ken Rad (based off a 6SN7 tube) is the second best because it has that smoothness and vocal clarity that cuts through any fat with amazing bass. It's a great balancing act. The only downside is it's not very good on the detail front.

The rest are more tonal tubes with smoothness and warmth, mid detail and richness abound. That proves to be too much of a good thing for my favorite tube - the CBS as it's warmth coupled with it's linearity makes it harder to hear detail and vocals. Again, this is just the synergy with my system and my particular set of speakers. These speakers respond really well to tube rolls so I don't think this list will stay static as I start upgrading speaker cables, etc.

For headphones the list is short and simple:
1. Tung Sol 12BH7 D Getter
2. CBS 5814

The Tung Sol is smooth and warm while still remaining linear and very detailed. I really enjoy this one a lot. My CBS is my classic and I don't hear that overwhelming amount of warmth with my headphones. It's pretty linear and detailed sounding. The others either sound too aggressive or lack too much detail for my liking.

I think what's happening is the more aggressive sounding tubes are cutting through the fat and letting more detail shine through whilst since I have a pretty revealing set of cans and they're closer to your ear (making detail easier to hear) allows other tubes to shine.

It's been fascinating comparing the sound of the same tubes through headphones and speakers. It's hard getting good detail out of similarly priced headphones into speakers while maintaining naturalness. I've had to give up up on the higher registers to settle for a single driver mid range speaker (which I wanted anyway since tweeters are so hard to dial in a small room). I actually like that I don't have the same tubes for everything as now I can preserve them depending on what I'm listening to.

As for the Decware partnership - he makes good stuff. I really enjoy his Zen Triode SET amp. It's been rated one of the best 2W SET amps under $1k by pretty much every reviewer out there. I have myself found good synergy with OTL's and Zach's headphones. I don't know if it'll nail it on the detail end (maybe if he charges the same as the Pendant in the $3k category) but I'm sure it'll be a tonally amazing sounding device. I would definetly keep those adapters handy as well as I find 12AU tubes kill it on the tonal and to some extent the detail end way more than the 6922s. A good $100 6922 tube is about the equivalent of a $30-40 12 series tube. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Wes S

hikaru12 said:


> These are interesting developments of late - Zach's right though - the circuit will ultimately affect the transparency and sound. All the components do interact with each other to ultimately change the 6922 into a great tube or awful. I don't think an OTL will match the transparency you get from the Pendant which is a SET (my personal favorite of tube amps) but it might if botique parts are used - similar to DNA's amps.
> 
> Anywho I finally got some time to listen to a wide variety of tubes using only my speakers to get a feel for them. To note, they are very transparent but mid centric. They're not incredibly detailed but they are very revealing for vocals and any mid range instruments. They're my new personal benchmarks.
> 
> ...


Well said and sounds like you have been having some tube rolling fun!


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Well said and sounds like you have been having some tube rolling fun!


Yes sir! I was getting ready to clean out the collection but like you and many other people on this thread have said, it's good to have different tubes around for different types of headphones and in my case, speakers. Speakers are always harder to place in the room and finding a good sweet spot for them is tricky, so to my surprise a cheap double mica Raytheon sounding the best made my day! Hooray for cheap tubes


----------



## hikaru12 (May 7, 2022)

Louisiana said:


> Please excuse me if this question has already been asked:
> Is it still worth buying a Pedant *OG* these days, or would it be better to go for the SE?
> Headphones used: LCD4 & HE1000se.
> 
> Thanks in advance


The LCD-4 is a great pairing with either but the SE is quieter and I think will provide more benefit as you'll get more micro detail from it for sure. SE could definitely benefit from either as it needs a warmer pairing IME. If the SE prices jump too high because of the discontinued annoucement I think there are excellent SS pairings that would be just as good if not better for those particular headphones at this price range ($2.5-$3k).

By the way if you guys haven't tried - planars do sound amazing with the Pendant especially weird ones like the LCD-4 that has a high impedance. Don't feel like you should be limited to just Zach's creations [as much we love him ]


----------



## blackdragon87

zach915m said:


> We will no longer be selling the Pendant. Any further info I will let ampsandsound fill you guys in!
> 
> We will have the Cayin 300b MK II amps in stock soon (should be on the site next week, zmf owners email for price) and are working on a special collaboration with Decware on an OTL made just for ZMF as well as a solid state amp with JDS Labs that will have



Cool news. I'm interested in the solid state amp with jds labs


----------



## fuhransahis

zach915m said:


> The new Decware amp will have much more going on inside the chassis than most OTL's, I've listened at length to the final version and it was tuned in harmony with the creation of the Atrium, as Steve had an early Atrium for over 6 months while working on the amp.  I really believe this will be the production OTL to have for dynamic ZMFs as it was designed just for us.  Will do a full video and will probably give me an excuse to drive to Decware and shoot some video as well.  We love the Decware team.
> 
> So anyways - definitely don't judge the amp based on what you've heard from other amps that use 6922 tubes.  And yeah you can definitely adapt to tons of other tubes as desired.



That's really awesome about the Decware amp - do you happen to have estimated/ballpark pricing?


----------



## Wes S (May 8, 2022)

fuhransahis said:


> That's really awesome about the Decware amp - do you happen to have estimated/ballpark pricing?


I emailed Zach the second I found out about this amp with the same question (as I will be buying one for sure), and he told me he will be releasing a video on the ZMF YouTube channel with all the information we will want about the OTL when it's ready.  So I imagine all our questions will be answered soon, and I am pumped and can't wait to hear about the details.


----------



## fuhransahis

Wes S said:


> I emailed Zach the second I found out about this amp with the same question (as I will be buying one for sure), and he told me he will be releasing a video on the ZMF YouTube channel with all the information we will want about the OTL when it's ready.  So I imagine all our questions will be answered soon, and I am pumped and can't wait to hear about the details.



Thanks for the notice! Looking forward to when more details come out 

Meanwhile...





(Be patient, it'll be out before you know it. Should be soon. But... HOW soon? Like a year? Or like, 2 months? And are we talking like... $3k? Maybe $2k? Maybe less?? Will it have XLR? I want it now though, I wanna SEE IT IT'LL PROBABLY LOOK AWESOME... Will it ha...)


----------



## Wes S

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks for the notice! Looking forward to when more details come out
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

While waiting for the video update, we’ll just have to suffer and listen to our Pendants…. That’s suffering I’m willing to endure 😅 

My wallet can’t handle all the new products on the horizon!  I haven’t even started recovering from the Atrium purchase yet. So worth the money though. My Auteur has only been taken of it’s stand once since the Atrium arrived. I go back and forth between the VC and Atrium.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> While waiting for the video update, we’ll just have to suffer and listen to our Pendants…. That’s suffering I’m willing to endure 😅
> 
> My wallet can’t handle all the new products on the horizon!  I haven’t even started recovering from the Atrium purchase yet. So worth the money though. My Auteur has only been taken of it’s stand once since the Atrium arrived. I go back and forth between the VC and Atrium.


I am suffering with you and wouldn't have it any other way.  The sound and site of the Pendant is just heavenly! 





The Pendant SE will always be my "numero uno", and have a special place in my heart and isn't going anywhere even when I get the OTL.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I am suffering with you and wouldn't have it any other way.  The sound and site of the Pendant is just heavenly!
> 
> 
> 
> The Pendant SE will always be my "numero uno", and have a special place in my heart and isn't going anywhere even *when *I get the OTL.


Good thinking !  Determination is everything ! 👍


----------



## jonathan c

4LoveOfSound said:


> While waiting for the video update, we’ll just have to suffer and listen to our Pendants…. That’s suffering I’m willing to endure 😅
> 
> My wallet can’t handle all the new products on the horizon!  I haven’t even started recovering from the Atrium purchase yet. So worth the money though. My Auteur has only been taken of it’s stand once since the Atrium arrived. I go back and forth between the VC and Atrium.


I do go back ‘n forth between Atrium and Auteur: each speaks so musically with its own eloquence 🎵😀.


----------



## gonintendo

zach915m said:


> We will no longer be selling the Pendant. Any further info I will let ampsandsound fill you guys in!
> 
> We will have the Cayin 300b MK II amps in stock soon (should be on the site next week, zmf owners email for price) and are working on a special collaboration with Decware on an OTL made just for ZMF as well as a solid state amp with JDS Labs that will have selectable impedances.


Very cool to see new amp collabs on the horizon! Would you be willing to share the motivation behind pulling the pendant? It seems like it was pretty well loved


----------



## zach915m

gonintendo said:


> Very cool to see new amp collabs on the horizon! Would you be willing to share the motivation behind pulling the pendant? It seems like it was pretty well loved


It's a great amp! In a perfect world we would have kept it in the ZMF family forever, but it wasn't up to me.  I can tell you there's nothing wrong with it and the logistics are beyond the scope of anything to do with the amp itself. 

Also - I have some awesome tubes left over - and pendant chassis that I will likely sell at an extreme discount.  If anyone is interested in a different wood chassis send me an email at zach@zmfheadhones.com, I can also test and rangle up some tubes for those interested.


----------



## mainguy

Had the pleasure of hearing the Pendant recently with my P9s and Stellia.
I really loved it with the P9, such a technically brilliant yet seductive sound. I think it's going to be my high end amp to aim for, possibly taking the place of the TT2. I wish I had more time with it, only 30mins or so.

Convince me audio has done a few reviews of ZMF gear and I recently saw his Pendant review dropped. Do you guys tend to agree with the sound section? Jokes aside, he seemed pretty enamoured. I haven't tried lots of high end amps so dont have many points of comparison other than Chord stuff.


----------



## Wes S (May 10, 2022)

mainguy said:


> Had the pleasure of hearing the Pendant recently with my P9s and Stellia.
> I really loved it with the P9, such a technically brilliant yet seductive sound. I think it's going to be my high end amp to aim for, possibly taking the place of the TT2. I wish I had more time with it, only 30mins or so.
> 
> Convince me audio has done a few reviews of ZMF gear and I recently saw his Pendant review dropped. Do you guys tend to agree with the sound section? Jokes aside, he seemed pretty enamoured. I haven't tried lots of high end amps so dont have many points of comparison other than Chord stuff.



I agree with what he said about the sound, and think that guy did a killer job describing the experience of the Pendant.  I especially like that he realized tube rolling can definitely change up the sound quite a bit.


----------



## ampsandsound

Ill be able to share details soon. The sound of the Leeloo/pendant will live on. 
Really pleased how much the sound has been enjoyed.


----------



## DeweyCH

zach915m said:


> It's a great amp! In a perfect world we would have kept it in the ZMF family forever, but it wasn't up to me.  I can tell you there's nothing wrong with it and the logistics are beyond the scope of anything to do with the amp itself.
> 
> Also - I have some awesome tubes left over - and pendant chassis that I will likely sell at an extreme discount.  If anyone is interested in a different wood chassis send me an email at zach@zmfheadhones.com, I can also test and rangle up some tubes for those interested.


I don’t suppose a Pendant chassis will fit a Mogwai?


----------



## ampsandsound

DeweyCH said:


> I don’t suppose a Pendant chassis will fit a Mogwai?


Mogwai OG yes.  Not Se


----------



## Bassic Needs

I just picked up a Sparkos Aries SS headamp/preamp, which was said to be the recommended SS amp by Zach in the 2021 era. Question about variations of using Sparkos Aries and Pendant SE in the same chain:

Today I tried Bifrost 2 DAC > RCA > Aries (as preamp) > RCA > Pendant SE, which was cool because I could plug headphines into Aries for SS experience,  or into Pendant for tube experience. 1) Should Pendant be at 100% volume in this arrangement, and volume control done by Aries as preamp? I was uncertain if I should allow either device to be at 100%. 2) am I potentially coloring the sound or affecting sound quality with Aries as preamp?


----------



## jonathan c

Bassic Needs said:


> I just picked up a Sparkos Aries SS headamp/preamp, which was said to be the recommended SS amp by Zach in the 2021 era. Question about variations of using Sparkos Aries and Pendant SE in the same chain:
> 
> Today I tried Bifrost 2 DAC > RCA > Aries (as preamp) > RCA > Pendant SE, which was cool because I could plug headphines into Aries for SS experience,  or into Pendant for tube experience. 1) Should Pendant be at 100% volume in this arrangement, and volume control done by Aries as preamp? I was uncertain if I should allow either device to be at 100%. 2) am I potentially coloring the sound or affecting sound quality with Aries as preamp?


For 1): why not try various settings: Pendant @ 100%, Aries VC; Pendant @ 75%, Aries VC; ……Pendant @ 0%, Aries VC? See which proportion _sounds the best._
For 2):  _potentially _yes. Will you hear it? 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## hikaru12

Bassic Needs said:


> I just picked up a Sparkos Aries SS headamp/preamp, which was said to be the recommended SS amp by Zach in the 2021 era. Question about variations of using Sparkos Aries and Pendant SE in the same chain:
> 
> Today I tried Bifrost 2 DAC > RCA > Aries (as preamp) > RCA > Pendant SE, which was cool because I could plug headphines into Aries for SS experience,  or into Pendant for tube experience. 1) Should Pendant be at 100% volume in this arrangement, and volume control done by Aries as preamp? I was uncertain if I should allow either device to be at 100%. 2) am I potentially coloring the sound or affecting sound quality with Aries as preamp?


This is a interesting scenario would definitely like to hear you impressions when you’ve had the chance to compare the two.


----------



## Wes S (May 13, 2022)

It's another tube rolling day, and this little guy never lets me down and is a freaking stunner in the driver spot.   This tube has it all, and when it comes to bass slam and power, nothing can touch this tube. . .

Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate 52'






Happy Listening!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I have a black plate TungSol 12BH7 arriving today. I’ll compare to the grey plate I already have and report back.


----------



## DenverW

Wes S said:


> It's another tube rolling day, and this little guy never lets me down and is a freaking stunner in the driver spot.   This tube has it all, and when it comes to bass slam and power, nothing can touch this tube. . .
> 
> Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate 52'
> 
> ...


Aha!  A tube I haven't tried yet.  I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for that one .


----------



## tholt

Long time listener, first time caller here  Recently acquired a Pendant SE after having owned a couple of Justin's amps before. I've mostly been following the tube recommendations here, particularly the Tung Sol 12BH7 black plate reco. Found one on Etsy for $50 which arrived earlier and playing it now. Another really nice tube that seems to complement the TS is a Mullard 6CA4 that came from the same seller. Bought on a whim (70's grey plate square getter), popped it in and surprisingly good results. I've been playing with various combinations of my small tube stash, and the Mullard/TS combo (along with Soviet 6P14P-EV driver tubes) is quite nice to my ears. Spacious, detailed, airy, nice extension and balanced throughout. 

I listen to HE1000se exclusively, which I think work great with this amp. It's well known that these headphones can have a hot top end, and this tube combination tames that nicely without any apparent loss of detail. Just really nicely balanced sounding. Quite happy at the moment!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Some morning tube time


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Some morning tube time


I spy. . .a Tung Sol Black Plate.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> I spy. . .a Tung Sol Black Plate.


Yup


----------



## Bassic Needs

hikaru12 said:


> This is a interesting scenario would definitely like to hear you impressions when you’ve had the chance to compare the two.


I had an hour or two to compare yesterday. All testing with done with Bifrost 2 as DAC, and Verite Closed headphones. 

I tried a few configurations: 1. DAC directly connected to each amp; vs. 2. DAC to Aries, and Aries pre-out to Pednant. I did not detect a difference in sq between these two modes, but more critical listening is required before making this my final conclusion. 3. Lastly, I put a Schiit Loki in the chain to experiment with bass capabilities. 

Notes about each amp:

Sparkos Aries:
+ background is dead silent. With Pendant, the barely audible noise floor varies with each tube combination. Its easy to not notice the noise floor, until you connect to a dead silent solid state amp like the Aries.
+ no EMF chatter.  My cell phone is my source, and I have colleagues nearby. My Pendant SE and Schiit Vali 2 suffer bursts of EMF noises, but Aries does not.
+ no warm up time is great! Perfect for quick listening sessions
+ the volume wheel has way more usable range
+ gain selection of +10, +20, or +30 db is nice. +10 is fine when my headphones are jacked into the Aries.
- apparent sound stage seems almost as tall and wide as Pendant
- less 3D depth in sound stage, but its not flat
+ similar level of detail retrievable 
- the timbre of musical instruments isnt quite as good as Pendant 

Pendant SE:
l tested with my favorite tube complement from my small tube collection: NOS RFT 12AT7 input, JJ EL84 power pair, NOS RFT EZ81 rectifier. 

+ wow, there is no loss of detail, speed, or any other sound quality element usually said to be conceded to solid states
+ I thought for EDM, the Aries would be better than the Pendant, but thats not true. They both sound fast and thumpy.
+ the sound stage may be a touch taller
+ there is a touch more depth in the sound stage. A subtle, yet noticeable bit of holography
+ the air between instruments seems similar
+ with careful listening, it becomes apparent the Pendant has an edge in timbre. A/B'ing songs, I notice instruments like a harmonica sound more lifelike, and more musical on Pendant, where the Aries the sounds ever so slightly flatter like a reproduction 
+ once you notice the timbre improvement,  you become aware the Pendant overall seems a little more musical and engaging than the Aries. 
- the usable volume dial range is too limited on the Pendant with most songs and tube choices. I usually get between 3 to 6 of the 24 steps on the dial before its too loud. 
- the vertical headphone jack is ok, but the front facing jack on Aries is preferrable to me

Perhaps for the biggest surprise in this comparison: bass.  I've always wondered if the Pendant rolls off on the low bass, or if I am otherwise tube limited. Using the Schiit Loki, I was surprised to find when I cranked the bass +12 db for EDM and bassy tracks,  they sounded almost identical! Maybe the teeniest edge for the Aries, but I'm not even sure since bass notes are harder to compare. I've learned I am not sacrificing anything in the bass department with the Pendant SE, at least not when using the Verite Closed.


----------



## Wes S (May 15, 2022)

Pulled out another famous ECC82 from my stash last night.  This was the first 12AU7/ECC82 that I fell in love with years ago and with what I am hearing now I can totally see why.  I don't know why it took me a year of owning this amp to finally roll it in. . .but you know what they say, better late than never. 

Funny thing about this tube, is that before owning the Pendant (yet knowing I would own one someday), I remember reading people's impressions of the amp, and I always thought to myself that I would try this tube first.  Well, I finally got around to rolling it in yesterday and sure enough it is everything I always thought it might be and more in the Pendant SE.

Say hello to the one and only, Mullard ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter - Blackburn 57'. 





This tube is the poster child for the "OG" Mullard house sound and has legendary status and price for a reason.  There is killer detail, impact/note weight for days and a very holographic stage.  Paired up with some Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters and a RFT EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter, it's a very immersive and "lifelike" experience.  The bass is powerful, tight and textured and hits with authority.  The lifelike timbre, texture and detail of the mids is to die for.  Lastly the highs are smooth and fatigue free.  The vocals and holographic stage with this tube are insanely good, and other than the bass, they are the major standouts.  This tube is a winner no doubt, and another one from my collection I am glad I never sold.  Back to musical bliss. . .

Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!


----------



## zach915m

Just wanted to post since we've been getting a lot of emails regarding us no longer working with ampsandsound, this is cross posted from another forum for linearity.  If you've sent us an email about this I will answer with this same response as well.
_
The Pendant and Kenzie are both great amps for sure, I have actually been using the Kenzie OG Rev II a ton lately, the 8/100 ohm version Justin made me is one of my favorite amps I’ve ever had.

There’s been a lot of logistical stresses over the last couple years since the pandemic started, and those have created small businesses like Justin’s and mine to have to make things work in varying ways because of the supply chain needed. At ZMF I have always put price stability as a an utmost priority for our owners, many times with us buying much more inventory than immediately needed to be able to do this. In the current environment as a go between from ampsandsounds manufacturing to our selling of the Pendant, the product stability wasn’t viable on our, and ampsandsounds end for ZMF to continue selling ampsandsounds products.

They are fantastic amps and I will definitely continue to love the hell out the Kenzie Justin just built me though!_


----------



## ampsandsound

Hey everyone. 
Im so pleased to see all the happy owners. 
ZMF has been such an amazing partner with very similar values and approaches. 
Zach's explanation rings true. Our growth as a brand and the pandemic made sourcing hard for all parties. 
Though the Leeloo/pendant isnt available from ZMF, it doesn't mean Im not a complete supporter and fan of all things ZMF.


----------



## cinisi

Just here to say I'm now also a very happy owner of the Pendant (OG) amp. I was running an SW51+ before this, which I was very happy with. But the Pendant is just in another league! Noise floor was something I was a little worried about, because my SW51+ was totally silent. Well, I'm running the Pendant with JJ tubes, and it's dead silent on Low Z, with a minor (almost unnoticable) hum on High Z. Great stuff, and this is definitely my end-game in terms of amps that go with my VC 

Also, don't mind the clutter on my desk.. Just installed the amp today and need to tidy up still


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

cinisi said:


> Just here to say I'm now also a very happy owner of the Pendant (OG) amp. I was running an SW51+ before this, which I was very happy with. But the Pendant is just in another league! Noise floor was something I was a little worried about, because my SW51+ was totally silent. Well, I'm running the Pendant with JJ tubes, and it's dead silent on Low Z, with a minor (almost unnoticable) hum on High Z. Great stuff, and this is definitely my end-game in terms of amps that go with my VC
> 
> Also, don't mind the clutter on my desk.. Just installed the amp today and need to tidy up still


Welcome to the club!


----------



## Wes S (May 16, 2022)

cinisi said:


> Just here to say I'm now also a very happy owner of the Pendant (OG) amp. I was running an SW51+ before this, which I was very happy with. But the Pendant is just in another league! Noise floor was something I was a little worried about, because my SW51+ was totally silent. Well, I'm running the Pendant with JJ tubes, and it's dead silent on Low Z, with a minor (almost unnoticable) hum on High Z. Great stuff, and this is definitely my end-game in terms of amps that go with my VC
> 
> Also, don't mind the clutter on my desk.. Just installed the amp today and need to tidy up still


Heck yeah!  The Pendant and VC is such an incredible pairing.  Happy listening and welcome to the club!


----------



## jonathan c

cinisi said:


> Just here to say I'm now also a very happy owner of the Pendant (OG) amp. I was running an SW51+ before this, which I was very happy with. But the Pendant is just in another league! Noise floor was something I was a little worried about, because my SW51+ was totally silent. Well, I'm running the Pendant with JJ tubes, and it's dead silent on Low Z, with a minor (almost unnoticable) hum on High Z. Great stuff, and this is definitely my end-game in terms of amps that go with my VC
> 
> Also, don't mind the clutter on my desk.. Just installed the amp today and need to tidy up still


Excellent! … if I had the Pendant etc on my desk facing me (vs gear on shelves behind me), I would never get work (from home) done…😜


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Excellent! … if I had the Pendant etc on my desk facing me (vs gear on shelves behind me), *I would never get work (from home) done…*😜


If I was at home for work, I'd never get any work done either.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> If I was at home for work, I'd never get any *work *work done either.


And as for spousal tasks…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> And as for spousal tasks…


If my spouse looked like that maybe I _would_ stay home.  🤣


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> If my spouse looked like that maybe I _would_ stay home. 🤣


…does that mean that right now you are AWOL…?….🤣


----------



## Ufanco

Guess I found out who’s buying up all the 12bh7 tubes. I’m using them in a different amp to replace 12au7 and find them a great upgrade. My favorite is a early 50’s cbs 12bh7 white tips and a set of sylvania 12BH7a red tips. Really nice to see others that also like the 12bh7’s as much as I do. I feel they sound better than even the 13d5 tubes in my system.


----------



## Louisiana

bcowen said:


> If my spouse looked like that maybe I _would_ stay home.  🤣


----------



## Wes S

Ufanco said:


> Guess I found out who’s buying up all the 12bh7 tubes. I’m using them in a different amp to replace 12au7 and find them a great upgrade. My favorite is a early 50’s cbs 12bh7 white tips and a set of sylvania 12BH7a red tips. Really nice to see others that also like the 12bh7’s as much as I do. I feel they sound better than even the 13d5 tubes in my system.


Guilty as charged.   The early 50's CBS-HYTRON 12BH7 is a fantastic tube no doubt!


----------



## nwavesailor

Dr. Wes Evil:

"I must have ALL CBS Hytron 12BH7's"!!!!!!!


----------



## robo24 (May 17, 2022)

Selling off some of my Pendant tubes in the Classifieds if anyone is interested. I just have way too many. Most bought based on recommendations here or on the Tuba thread (uses EL84 too).

EL84s
Tungsram, Tubestore.com 7189 Preferred Series, Telefunken

5814A
Raytheon black plates double mica 1950-1953


----------



## jonathan c

nwavesailor said:


> Dr. Wes Evil:
> 
> "I must have ALL CBS Hytron 12BH7's"!!!!!!!


Yeah….baby!!


----------



## Wes S (May 18, 2022)

Got the itch for something different and boy is it ever!  I have had an on and off love affair with this tube over the years, and as of right now I am in love. . .

The 6201 Hamburg Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter is insane!  The huge holographic staging, detail/transparency, bass slam, and lifelike mids and airy treble, are stunning paired up with some Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters and a RFT EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter.  The sound is as good as I have heard my VC's and this tube combo really plays to it's strengths.

I have been finding it quite interesting how my taste and preferences have continually evolved the more time I spend with the Pendant SE and VC over the past year of owning both, and I sure am glad I held onto some of my rare "Holy Grail" tubes.  The 6201 PWTMDG really is an incredible tube.






Happy Listening!


----------



## Wes S (May 21, 2022)

Say hello to my  "A Team" of driver tubes.  They are all at the same level, but do their own unique thing.  Rotating through these is such a treat, and really helps keep things fresh and exciting. 

Left to Right - Tung Sol 12BH7 (BPDG), Funkwerk Erfurt ECC81 (OG FDG Version from 54'), Mullard ECC82 (LPSG), Philips ECC81 (OG Hamburg Coin Base DG), 6201 (Hamburg PWTMDG), Ken-Rad 5814 (Pewter Plate SG), and Hytron 12BH7 (OG DG Version 51').





Sound sigs -

Tung Sol - Midrange focus, with hard hitting middbass, and killer vocals, and a smooth top end.  The staging is not quite as expansive as the others, but still has good 3Dness.

Funkwerk Erfurt - Well balanced, with killer extension and impact in the bass, highly transparent/detailed mids, and sparkling airy highs, the staging is massive being both wide and deep and this is a highly musical tube

Mullard - Tight hard hitting bass, killer bloom and detail in midrange, with hauntingly lifelike vocals, and smooth highs.  The reverb and decay lingers a bit longer than the other tubes and sounds incredible with my VC's.  The staging is very holographic and deep.  A fun tube, but highly capable as well.

Philips (Hamburg) Coin Base - Huge thumping bass with a bit of middbass bloom, detailed mids and forward vocals, and good extension in the highs.  Another highly musical tube, that combines warmth down low, and sparkle up top.

Philips 6201 - Well balanced top to bottom, highly detailed/transparent, deep and tight hard hitting bass (only when called for), airy and detailed mids with killer texture, and airy and extended highs, the staging is the most holographic and expansive of the group, and has to be heard to be believed.  This tube is a stunner!

Ken-Rad - Well balanced top to bottom, deep thunderous subbass with good middbass punch, clean and clear mids, and smooth highs.  The staging is deep and this tube just sounds so right, transparent and balanced, and it would work in any situation. I can't see anyone not loving this tube.

Hytron - Well balanced top to bottom, the bass slams and has a bit of midbass bloom, the mids are highly detailed and transparent and the highs are smooth.  Vocals and instruments are huge and present and sound very lifelike.  This tube has a deep stage with killer dynamics, but still stays smooth at the same time.  The sound is powerful, big and musical.

Happy Listening!


----------



## Ufanco

Have any of you tried the 13d5 instead of a 12au7? The pinnacle 13d5 sound great and wondering if anyone tried the BRIMAR 13d5?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264238819005?epid=5030502581&hash=item3d85dc66bd:g:3ZIAAOSwbJldemPm


----------



## FlatCap72

Hey @zach915m do you have any vintage tubes left for the Pendant SE? I sent you an email a few weeks ago regarding your stock, though I don't know if it ever reached you.


----------



## zach915m

FlatCap72 said:


> Hey @zach915m do you have any vintage tubes left for the Pendant SE? I sent you an email a few weeks ago regarding your stock, though I don't know if it ever reached you.


Sorry to anyone who emailed me! I do indeed have stock, I will go through stock tomorrow and email everyone back.


----------



## Wes S (May 30, 2022)

Been having a blast doing another driver tube rolling marathon this weekend with all my favs and a few from my stash, and I have found another one that will definitely be put back into my normal rotation.  The Raytheon 7729 long plate is killer!  The transparency, speed and detail are all top notch with this one, and coupled with very deep and tall staging, it's a highly immersive and addictive listen. . .

Happy Memorial Day and Happy Listening!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Been having a blast doing another driver tube rolling marathon this weekend with all my favs and a few from my stash, and I have found another one that will definitely be put back into my normal rotation.  The Raytheon 7729 long plate is killer!  The transparency, speed and detail are all top notch with this one, and coupled with very deep and tall staging, it's a highly immersive and addictive listen. . .
> 
> Happy Memorial Day and Happy Listening!


It _has _been a while since you ‘musiced’ with the 7729 long-plate. I remember you raving then 🤪.


----------



## Wes S (May 31, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> It _has _been a while since you ‘musiced’ with the 7729 long-plate. I remember you raving then 🤪.


I have been having a blast revisiting some of my old favs lately, and speaking of that. . .I just rolled in some of my Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters 53' and they sound even better than I remember.  The background is pitch black on the low Z tap, staging is incredibly deep and expansive and the detail is there in spades with these German's paired up with the G.E. (Ken-Rad) 5814 Pewter Plate and RFT EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter.   I have said it many times before, and I will say it again. . .the Pendant SE is a tube rollers dream amp, and being able to fine tune the sound from 3 different angles (driver, power and rectifier) really lets you dial it in to perfection.

Valvo Hamburg EL84 Dish Getters (OG's 53') and G.E. (Ken-Rad 52') 5814 Pewter Plate and RFT EZ81 WPFG = Soundstage of dreams with my VC's





Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Wes S

Decided to see how deep and expansive I could get the stage and this all German tube combo did not disappoint one bit.  There is detail, texture, harmonic richness, and stage expansion that made my jaw drop listening with my VC's last night.  The Germans sure knew how to make some killer tubes back in the day, and Hamburg is definitely where some of the magic happened.

Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG, Hamburg EL84 DG 53', and RFT EZ81 WPFG





Interesting thing is the Hamburg EL84 and 6201 where some of the first tubes I rolled in this amp a year ago and they impressed me then. . . however now that I have learned to be a better listener and have added the RFT EZ81 WPFG to the mix, things are much more impressive this time around.

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Menkau-ra

What's that traveling case ZMF uses for Pendant? I want to buy the same case for my Bottlehead Mainline.


----------



## BudKine

Just sayin'...


----------



## jonathan c

BudKine said:


> Just sayin'...


Then there was ENIAC (Electronic Numerical Integrator And Calculator) in 1945 with > 17,000 tubes:


----------



## BudKine

jonathan c said:


> Then there was ENIAC (Electronic Numerical Integrator And Calculator) in 1945 with > 17,000 tubes:



Yes, but how does it sound .  And @Wes S , major tube rolling challenge.


----------



## BudKine

Menkau-ra said:


> What's that traveling case ZMF uses for Pendant? I want to buy the same case for my Bottlehead Mainline.


It’s a “seahorse” case, but as to its dimensions, I am uncertain. Amazon.com has bunches of them.  Perhaps, someone else would weigh in on this.


----------



## Wes S

Menkau-ra said:


> What's that traveling case ZMF uses for Pendant? I want to buy the same case for my Bottlehead Mainline.


Like @BudKine mentioned it's a Seahorse style case, and I will measure mine when I get home in a few hours and post them here.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2022)

BudKine said:


> Yes, but how does it sound .  And @Wes S , major tube rolling challenge.


LOL and Wow!  That would definitely be a major tube rolling challenge.   I could never afford that many tubes . . .


----------



## Menkau-ra

Wes S said:


> Like @BudKine mentioned it's a Seahorse style case, and I will measure mine when I get home in a few hours and post them here.


thank you!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> thank you!


20" wide - 15" front to back - 9" tall

This appears to be a knock off of a Pelican brand case, as there is no logo anywhere, but it feels and looks just as good.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2022)

A very special tube just got delivered. . . and it's burning in as I type this. 

Say hello to the Telefunken G73-R!









More to come on the sound. . .


----------



## Menkau-ra

Wes S said:


> 20" wide - 15" front to back - 9" tall
> 
> This appears to be a knock off of a Pelican brand case, as there is no logo anywhere, but it feels and looks just as good.


Very good! What's the size of the Pendant? The Mainline is: 13.5" x 13.5" x 6"


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> LOL and Wow!  That would definitely be a major tube rolling challenge.   I could never afford that many tubes . . .


Worse, all 17,000 need to be matched or 2+2 might equal 5.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Worse, all 17,000 need to be matched or 2+2 might equal 5.


God forbid with GEs. ENIAC was 1945…GE already bought (broke) KenRad….😳😱


----------



## Wes S

Menkau-ra said:


> Very good! What's the size of the Pendant? The Mainline is: 13.5" x 13.5" x 6"


12.5" × 9.5" × 6"


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2022)

This just doesn't look quite right without any glow coming from the driver tube. . . the sound on the other hand is definitely right.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> A very special tube just got delivered. . . and it's burning in as I type this.
> 
> Say hello to the Telefunken G73-R!
> 
> ...


The G-73R looks as though it could be dropped from Junkers JU-87 (‘Stuka’) in WWII. 😜


----------



## Menkau-ra

Wes S said:


> 20" wide - 15" front to back - 9" tall
> 
> This appears to be a knock off of a Pelican brand case, as there is no logo anywhere, but it feels and looks just as good.


This is probably almost the same as yours.

https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/cases/protector/1550?sku=1550-000-110


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> This is probably almost the same as yours.
> 
> https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/cases/protector/1550?sku=1550-000-110


Make sure it fits the carry on size regulations, and be prepared to pop it open at the X-ray line.


----------



## Menkau-ra

DenverW said:


> Make sure it fits the carry on size regulations, and be prepared to pop it open at the X-ray line.


As a backup option I was thinking to buy new Mainline, but it will take so much time to build it.


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> As a backup option I was thinking to buy new Mainline, but it will take so much time to build it.


It’s a long build, that’s for sure.  You’d be better off shipping if possible in that case.  It would arrive long before you’d received and built the new one.  Besides, the one you have now is perfect .


----------



## Menkau-ra

DenverW said:


> It’s a long build, that’s for sure.  You’d be better off shipping if possible in that case.  It would arrive long before you’d received and built the new one.  Besides, the one you have now is perfect .


Are there any upgrades yet for mine? )))


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> Are there any upgrades yet for mine? )))


Nothing realistic.  You could do things like swap out parts for ‘audiophile’ parts, but it’s honestly a waste.  The best upgrades (the caps) I already did.  I can’t quite remember which caps I put in.  Mundorf…what else?


----------



## Menkau-ra

DenverW said:


> Nothing realistic.  You could do things like swap out parts for ‘audiophile’ parts, but it’s honestly a waste.  The best upgrades (the caps) I already did.  I can’t quite remember which caps I put in.  Mundorf…what else?


Yes, Mundorf ))


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> Yes, Mundorf ))


Did I swap out the center board caps?


----------



## Menkau-ra

DenverW said:


> Did I swap out the center board caps?


how would I know? )))


----------



## DenverW (Jun 3, 2022)

Sorry all to hijack this thread, we've moved to PM.


----------



## Wes S

Menkau-ra said:


> This is probably almost the same as yours.
> 
> https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/cases/protector/1550?sku=1550-000-110


I concur.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> The G-73R looks as though it could be dropped from Junkers JU-87 (‘Stuka’) in WWII. 😜


Looks can be deceiving. . .and with what I am hearing that is definitely the case with the G-73R.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Looks can be deceiving. . .and with what I am hearing that is definitely the case with the G-73R.


Are you saying that G-73R is “da bomb”?…😂🤣😂…


----------



## Wes S (Jun 5, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Are you saying that G-73R is “da bomb”?…😂🤣😂…


Most definitely, and to further clarify it's the Atomic Bomb.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2022)

. . .and then there was one.






This tube is so much better than all my other tubes, that it has ended my search and rolling of the input tube in the Pendant SE.  In fact, the Telefunken G73R is so incrediblly good in every regard, that it sounds as if I upgraded a major component in the chain, like a higher-end DAC or Streamer.  The sound went from close to lifelike with my other tubes, to so hauntingly lifelike it's insane with the G73R.  For example, I fired up the Alice in Chains MTV Unplugged live album yesterday and listened to the entire thing from start to finish and I literally felt like I was at the show. I have never heard music sound so lifelike with so much nuance coming through, and at one point when Lane Staley (lead singer who died from a heroin overdose shortly after the show) was talking to the crowd between songs, I could hear him so hauntingly clear and lifelike that I could feel his struggle with drugs in his voice and I started crying (he was on heroin during the performance battling the addiction and I have been there so I know the struggle all to well). It sounded so real and lifelike with all the emotion coming through that I felt like the lead singer was alive again, and it was such a spooky and amazing experience!  This tube just lets me get lost in the music like no other, and while listening I don't focus on any one aspect of the sound (bass, mids, or treble) like I do with most tubes, as everything just sounds so right and lifelike it's crazy.

I know this tube is ridiculously priced and hard to find (for a good reason), but honestly in my opinion the improvement in sound is easily justified once you hear it.  As an avid tube roller and hunter, that has owned a bunch of rare and highly sought after glass over the years, this is truly the best tube I have ever heard.  The hype is real.

Back to musical bliss. . .


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

At $300 plus per tube, how many backups are you planning to get?  Me, I’m sticking with my Ken-Rad. In fact I just ordered a back up pair. I’m going to try the 12ax7 version soon thanks to @hikaru12


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> At $300 plus per tube, how many backups are you planning to get?  Me, I’m sticking with my Ken-Rad. In fact I just ordered a back up pair. I’m going to try the 12ax7 version soon thanks to @hikaru12


Well, I do plan on maybe getting one backup and that's a big maybe.  This tube is rated for 40,000 hours, so I am thinking I should be good with the one tube for a while.  Those Ken-Rads are awesome tubes, and honestly if I did not hear the G73R, I would be perfectly happy and content with them.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The Pendant lives on!  It’s back to being the Leeloo. For sale over at headphones.com. Now has speaker taps instead of preamp out, and the price went up.


----------



## tholt

Wes S said:


> . . .and then there was one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's one expensive tube. What seller(s) do you trust that sell it?



4LoveOfSound said:


> The Pendant lives on!  It’s back to being the Leeloo. For sale over at headphones.com. Now has speaker taps instead of preamp out, and the price went up.


A&S amps have many qualities, but cheap is not one of them. The Pendant/SE was a bargain in the scheme of things. Wonder what the differences are, new Leeloo vs Pendant, besides speaker outs. He seems to like this design -- good for us. I used to own a SE-84 and loved it.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2022)

tholt said:


> That's one expensive tube. What seller(s) do you trust that sell it?
> 
> 
> A&S amps have many qualities, but cheap is not one of them. The Pendant/SE was a bargain in the scheme of things. Wonder what the differences are, new Leeloo vs Pendant, besides speaker outs. He seems to like this design -- good for us. I used to own a SE-84 and loved it.


It sure is expensive and with what I am hearing it's worth every penny.  I bought mine for a premium, but also from a dealer I can trust it was a true NOS, of which is TubeDepot (I think they might have sold out of them by the way).  This is the only other place I recommend buying them from, and they do have some stock but unfortunately they only sell them as pairs - https://www.audioantiquary.com/en-us/telefunken-g73r-7336/

As for the pricing of the Pendant SE it sure was a bargain, and I remember Zach saying he was not making much off them, and it would easily cost over $3000 if he were to mark it up accordingly.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

From what I saw, there is no difference from the SE except the speaker taps and it comes in flat black vs fancy wood.  Price now is $2899.  I bought my SE when they were first launched and got the new product discount.  What a bargain that turned out to be!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> From what I saw, there is no difference from the SE except the speaker taps and it comes in flat black vs fancy wood.  Price now is $2899.  I bought my SE when they were first launched and got the new product discount.  What a bargain that turned out to be!


I got the preorder price as well, and man that sure was a deal.  I much prefer the custom Walnut Burl base and ZMF logo too.


----------



## BudKine

Well, I guess the Pendant SE just increased in value and is now a classic perhaps even a collector's item .


----------



## Hiker816

Wes S said:


> As for the pricing of the Pendant SE it sure was a bargain, and I remember Zach saying he was not making much off them, and it would easily cost over $3000 if he were to mark it up accordingly.


Indeed it was a bargain.  And mine is currently for sale!  https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/price-drop-zmf-pendant-se-headphone-amp.24900/

Just say'in!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Hiker816 said:


> Indeed it was a bargain.  And mine is currently for sale!  https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/price-drop-zmf-pendant-se-headphone-amp.24900/
> 
> Just say'in!


That's a really nice looking one too!  Good luck with the sale.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2022)

To elaborate on the incredible experience of the Telefunken G73R, listening to some songs gets so emotional and mentally draining, that I have to take the headphones off and walk around the house a bit to come back to reality.  I really can't believe one tube can make this much of a difference to every aspect of the sound, and I have never said OMG (out loud ) so many times while listening as I have with this tube.  I have heard a bunch of really exotic NOS tubes over the years, and have been blown away before, but this is on a completely different level from them all.  The texture and weight of the notes is so thick (but not overdone at all) you can literally feel it, combined with speed and super snappy transients with just enough edge, more detail/transparency and nuances than I have ever heard before, and a stage that expands in all directions with full on 3D holographic imaging.  I thought I had heard holographic imaging before this tube, and now I really know what the term truly means.  The sound is projected deelpy front and back and all around and in between, with images fully fleshed out like I have never heard before, sounds exploding and floating out of a super black background (the blackest I have ever heard) from all directions, with decay that lingers but just long enough to hear every last note and syllable.  As I have mentioned before, I feel like I just upgraded a major component, so for me that definitely justifies the high cost of which is a bargain compared to upgrading a component.  Truly a magical experience, and one I am glad I finally took a chance on.  A special thanks to @nwavesailor for giving me the nudge to finally buy one!  I am looking to get another amp to add to the mix (DNA Stratus, Cayin HA300mk2, and Decware/ZMF OTL), and whichever one I end up going with is going to have some tough competition with the Pendant SE and my current tube combo.  There really is nothing more satisfying in this hobby than finding that special tube combo that takes things to levels you did not know were possible!

"Tube Combo of Dreams" - Telefunken G73R + Tungsram EL84 Welded Plates Foil O Getters + RFT EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter = There with the musicians 

Life is short enjoy it while you can and roll on until you get "There"!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2022)

Hiker816 said:


> Indeed it was a bargain.  And mine is currently for sale!  https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/price-drop-zmf-pendant-se-headphone-amp.24900/
> 
> Just say'in!


I can't believe this has not sold yet, and especially with that gorgeous base and great price!  GLWS!


----------



## BudKine

@Wes S are these the RFT EZ81s to which you're referring?  Is THERE more than one style of this tube? I don’t want to buy the wrong one.


----------



## Wes S

BudKine said:


> @Wes S are these the RFT EZ81s to which you're referring?  Is THERE more than one style of this tube? I don’t want to buy the wrong one.


Those are latter years version, and don't have the welded plates and foil getter, so not quite the same.  I have a few of those as well, and they don't have the magic of the welded plates.  Just for reference, the earlier version I am using, does not have those holes in the plates or an O Getter.

Here is a pic of the one I am using and prefer.


----------



## jonathan c

BudKine said:


> @Wes S are these the RFT EZ81s to which you're referring?  Is THERE more than one style of this tube? I don’t want to buy the wrong one.


Those are the ‘halo getters’: look towards the top inside the glass. The preferable ones are ‘foil getters’: those are covered in foil.


----------



## jonathan c

BudKine said:


> @Wes S are these the RFT EZ81s to which you're referring?  Is THERE more than one style of this tube? I don’t want to buy the wrong one.


There is no wrong (i.e. bad) RFT EZ81. It is that ‘foil getter’ > ‘halo getter’.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> There is no wrong (i.e. bad) RFT EZ81. It is that ‘foil getter’ > ‘halo getter’.


The welded plates (earliest) are actually the better version and what to look for.  The foil getter can have stapled plates (during the transition), and those don't sound as good as the welded plates.  I have 4 different versions.

1.  Earliest RFT - labeled Funkwerk Erfurt with welded plates and foil getter

2.  Next came the RFT label with welded plates and foil getter

3.  Then the RFT label with stapled plates (holes in the plate) with foil getter

4.  The last version with RFT labeling, stapled plates with an  O (halo) Getter

The first 2 versions best the last 2, in terms of sounding more natural and lifelike.  Earlier tubes often sounds better (more organic, natural and lifelike), and that's most definitely the case with the RFT (Formerly known as Funkwerk Erfurt) EZ81.


----------



## jonathan c

Thank you, Wes. I had forgotten about the ‘welded plate’ variety.


----------



## BudKine

''Sweet, Caroline, nah nah nah,...''


----------



## Ufanco

Just added some 12BH7 Hytron to my collection. Been trying to collect colored tip tubes but not sure if this Red tip one looks legit much more colored than other ones. Just curious what others think about it.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2022)

Ufanco said:


> Just added some 12BH7 Hytron to my collection. Been trying to collect colored tip tubes but not sure if this Red tip one looks legit much more colored than other ones. Just curious what others think about it.


I was watching those and for $15 you got a steal on some killer tubes.  As for the red tip, anyone at anytime can melt it on there, so I have never taken it as truth they were selected tubes from the factory supposedly better than non colored tips.  I have a bunch of the same tubes some with colored tips and then multiples of the same tube without them and have never found the colored tips to be more special.  The internal construction and acid etched date codes (if there are any) are the only true identifiers in my experience, and early is most often better.    I can tell you from looking at the construction of both those tubes you just purchased, the one on the left (red tip) is the earlier tube.


----------



## robo24 (Jun 8, 2022)

Mine have foil getters but DO have holes in the plates. Any idea about the years of those? Version 3 on your list.


----------



## Ufanco

Wes S said:


> I was watching those and for $15 you got a steal on some killer tubes.  As for the red tip, anyone at anytime can melt it on there, so I have never taken it as truth they were selected tubes from the factory supposedly better than non colored tips.  I have a bunch of the same tubes some with colored tips and then multiples of the same tube without them and have never found the colored tips to be more special.  The internal construction and acid etched date codes (if there are any) are the only true identifiers in my experience, and early is most often better.    I can tell you from looking at the construction of both those tubes you just purchased, the one on the left (red tip) is the earlier tube.



I really wasn’t expecting that bid to win. Good point on the red tip but for the price I’m not complaining. I have other early 12BH7 tubes that sound incredible so decided to snag these up.
Not sure but I think these two might also be early Hytron/cbs tubes any thoughts on them?


----------



## Wes S

Ufanco said:


> I really wasn’t expecting that bid to win. Good point on the red tip but for the price I’m not complaining. I have other early 12BH7 tubes that sound incredible so decided to snag these up.
> Not sure but I think these two might also be early Hytron/cbs tubes any thoughts on them?


Those are definitely ealry Hytron/CBS.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 9, 2022)

robo24 said:


> Mine have foil getters but DO have holes in the plates. Any idea about the years of those? Version 3 on your list.


It's really hard (impossible to be exact as far as I can tell) to date RFT tubes after 58', as they started using a weird 6 number system that started with 0XXXXX and goes all the way to 9XXXXX as you get into the early 70's.  Just an educated guess, but the transition from welded plates to the hole plates was probably sometime in the early 60's to possibly mids 60's.  I imagine your version was during the transition and they still had some Foil Getter parts ready to go, so they used them up before switching to the O Getter permanently.

Do you have a 6 digit code visible on your's?  That would help to get a better idea of the date.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 9, 2022)

Just fired up my Atticus for the first time in weeks to see how they pair up with the Telefunken G73R, and holy crap this is some insane bass!  I have been so enamored with my VC's lately that I have been using them exclusively for the last couple of weeks, but man I sure do love the Atticus just as much.  The midbass slam it tight, detailed and textured and is the best quality bass I have heard from this headphone.  The vocals are also incredible and the sound is so dynamic and engaging it's ridiculous.  The notes just pop out of a pitch black background with power and texture you can feel.  I have to admit I was a bit concerned the G73R was going to be bass light and treble heavy (of which is not my thing), and to my surprise that is not the case at all.  This tube is flat out perfection top to bottom, and is what I would consider the true "Holy Grail" of all the 12AU7, 12AT7 and 12AX7 tubes ever made.  This is where my input tube hunting and rolling journey truly ends, and I am crowning the Telefunken G73R as the King.  With an estimated 40,000 hour life span, it's pure musical bliss from here on out and then some.  





Happy Listening!


----------



## zach915m

Hey all - finally have some tubes up and listed on the site:  https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/diy/products/pendant-tubes

I will have more listed as I am able to test them and go through them.  The EL84 varieties there are only a couple sets of each, for the RFT EZ81's I have about 25 PCS and the 12au7's I have lots and will be listing more as well.


----------



## nwavesailor

I've been know to twist arms at times but, in this case, I'm so happy that Wes gave in and tried the Tele G73-R. I agree that it is a very expensive tube but it does live up to the hype.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 15, 2022)

Scored some Funkwerk Erfurt EL84 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getters, and man do they pair well with the G73R.  Funny thing is I had a pair of these already and sold them (like an idiot) awhile back.  Then having recently discovered the G73R, it made me realize those Funkwerk EL84's would have probably been a match made in heaven and so I went hunting and look what just showed up yesterday.  These tubes are rare and hard to find, but they do pop up from time to time, and are worth the hunt.





The Funkwerk Erfurt EL84 WPFG has killer transparency and dynamics, with very strong, tight and deep pounding bass, with a bit drier but smooth mids, and extended/airy highs.  The staging is massive with the Funkwerk(RFT) as well, and combined with the staging abilities and slightly wetter presentation of the G73R,  it's a fantastic synergy.  I also had the RFT EZ81 WPFG in at the same time for the rectification and the stage was so massive it was a little to diffused sounding.  So, I rolled in the Tungsram EZ81 WPFG to bring the staging in just a hair and add a bit more warmth/wetness in the mids and the sound is perfection.  This is such an immersive experience with more detail than I have ever heard before without sounding forced or artificial and I just can't get enough.  Sounds literally explode out of a pitch black background and dance and linger around my head, and it feels as if I could reach up and touch the notes.  The synergy between the G73R, Funkwerk Erfurt EL84 WPFG and Tungsram EZ81 WPFG paired up with my VC's is truly magical!

Happy Listening!


----------



## Virion

You should also try the amperex version of G73R


----------



## Wes S (Jun 15, 2022)

Virion said:


> You should also try the amperex version of G73R


Would love to, even though I don't care for the Amperex Holland "house sound" anymore. Nice score and that one is even more rare and unknown than the Telefunken.  Care to share your source?  Curious if you have you heard the Tele version for comparison?

Nice Hamburg Valvo in the driver spot there by the way.  I have a stash of those, and love the ealry Hamburg "house sound".  The Germans sure knew how to make some magical tubes back in the day.  I see you are running a Mullard EZ81 and I am curious what you are running for power tubes?


----------



## Virion

I have not heard the telefunken version. Got the amperex G73R from tubeampdoctor (germany) some years ago. They had a small stash which are gone now. When I bought it I thought it would be the telefunken one. But upon arrival I did not see the diamond mark on the bottom. After this first scare I saw the amperex and HP impression in the black and smiled.

The power tubes in this picture are most likely early mullards. But I'm also partial to the sovjet reflektor 6P14P heavy duty built version from the 70/80's.


----------



## msq123

Anyone had a chance to listen to Cayin HA300B Mk2 yet and compare with Pendant?  I have Pendant OG and while ordering Atrium I noticed ZMF has stopped Pendant and moved to Cayin for tube amps.  I was looking to sell Pendant anyways to try something with 300b tubes and considered Feliks Envy but now thinking if Cayin could be a better option in terms of synergy with ZMF headphones?  Pendant was my second tube amp after DV 336 so not an expert by a long shot and looking for suggestions in terms of my upgrade path for a 300b based amp.


----------



## steve468

msq123 said:


> Anyone had a chance to listen to Cayin HA300B Mk2 yet and compare with Pendant?  I have Pendant OG and while ordering Atrium I noticed ZMF has stopped Pendant and moved to Cayin for tube amps.  I was looking to sell Pendant anyways to try something with 300b tubes and considered Feliks Envy but now thinking if Cayin could be a better option in terms of synergy with ZMF headphones?  Pendant was my second tube amp after DV 336 so not an expert by a long shot and looking for suggestions in terms of my upgrade path for a 300b based amp.


I’ve had a HA-300 mk1 for a few months now, alongside a Pendant OG, and I love it. It has such a rich, warm, smooth character to it. However, it is NOT better than the Pendant, just a different flavour. Pendant has better extension on both ends of the spectrum, more impact, more speed, more tactile texture, and is more neutral/balanced overall. The Cayin has more detail and is a wetter, fuller sound, with more of a mid and mid-bass emphasis, which I guess many people (myself included!) find addicting.

As with any audio gear I think, it just depends what music you listen to. Pendant is better for me with metal, hip-hop, and electronic music. The Cayin has me listening to more jazz, acoustic p, and classical stuff than I did before.

And, unfortunately, they both are amazing with ZMFs, or maybe I just think ZMFs are always amazing? Cayin for more smoothness, Pendant for more speed and neutrality - the ZMFs I have take to both signatures very well, in my opinion.


----------



## msq123

steve468 said:


> I’ve had a HA-300 mk1 for a few months now, alongside a Pendant OG, and I love it. It has such a rich, warm, smooth character to it. However, it is NOT better than the Pendant, just a different flavour. Pendant has better extension on both ends of the spectrum, more impact, more speed, more tactile texture, and is more neutral/balanced overall. The Cayin has more detail and is a wetter, fuller sound, with more of a mid and mid-bass emphasis, which I guess many people (myself included!) find addicting.
> 
> As with any audio gear I think, it just depends what music you listen to. Pendant is better for me with metal, hip-hop, and electronic music. The Cayin has me listening to more jazz, acoustic p, and classical stuff than I did before.
> 
> And, unfortunately, they both are amazing with ZMFs, or maybe I just think ZMFs are always amazing? Cayin for more smoothness, Pendant for more speed and neutrality - the ZMFs I have take to both signatures very well, in my opinion.


Thanks for your detailed response.  I appreciate the slam and speed Pendant offers although I tone it down with a Mullard NOS input tube which introduce little wetness in the mids so in a way taming down and bringing it closer to Cayin sound.  I have a Chord TT2 which is an amazing SS detailed without being analytical and my thought process was Cayin or a Feliks Envy should complement it nicely, maybe even more than Pendant.   In terms of my music I mostly listen to music where Cayin excels as you explained except probably Electronic where TT2 is insane. 

I wish I could keep both but I am limited on space and can only accommodate 1 tube amp.  I just realised that Cayin doesn't have a pre out which I really enjoy on Pendant to tame down my B&W 705s when I want to round off some edges, might have to look at dedicated tube pre or consider Envy.


----------



## BudKine

I am discovering that the Funkwerk Erfurt EZ81s are very difficult to come by. I found 1 in Russia, but with their ongoing war in Ukraine, they are unable to ship materials out of the country. I remembered that I have a later version of the RFT EZ81 with the plate holes that I purchased a while back, but it had a terrible hum so I set it aside. After purchasing a contact cleaner spray and cleaning the tube contacts, I placed it into the socket and put the TUNG-SOL EZ81 back in its box for the time being. The RFT is much more neutral sounding and, is much cleaner and more detailed, and initially, it didn’t seem to have quite the punch of the TUNG-SOL. But, after listening for a while, it is very balanced across the entire frequency spectrum and I am a liking it very much.  I am currently running the Tung-sol 12BH7A, Tungsram EL84s and the RFT EZ81; neutral, detailed, smooth.  Thank you @Wes S


----------



## nwavesailor

I should be receiving an Envy at some point. The importer says the shipment is in US customs so it is at least here in the states!


----------



## jonathan c

*L👀K !!*  (A typographical error _or _Bangybang / cartago_est_delenda / menifee / wege_high_tubes rolled into the tube demon incarnate):


----------



## raindownthunda

jonathan c said:


> *L👀K !!*  (A typographical error _or _Bangybang / cartago_est_delenda / menifee / wege_high_tubes rolled into the tube demon incarnate):


$20 shipping?!? Highway robbery.


----------



## jonathan c

raindownthunda said:


> $20 shipping?!? Highway / airway / seaway robbery.


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021].


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> *L👀K !!*  (A typographical error _or _Bangybang / cartago_est_delenda / menifee / wege_high_tubes rolled into the tube demon incarnate):


*ROFL!!!!!!!*

I have probably 10 or 12 of those in the stash.  Maybe I should sell them and buy a new car.  Or find a mistress and lavish her with gifts. Or maybe start selling tubes full time and quit my job.


----------



## DenverW

What a rip off!  I wouldn't ask more than 3k for those tubes.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Any one know what tube this is?  I have one and would like to find another.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Any one know what tube this is?  I have one and would like to find another.


Looks like a Russian made tube to me.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Looks like a Russian made tube to me.


Agree.  Definitely Russian with the UFO getter.  Pretty similar (if not the same) to these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295062799879?hash=item44b31d0607:g:nBMAAOSwdqJih~P~


----------



## steve468

bcowen said:


> Agree.  Definitely Russian with the UFO getter.  Pretty similar (if not the same) to these:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295062799879?hash=item44b31d0607:g:nBMAAOSwdqJih~P~


Specifically, I think those are Reflecktor made Russian tubes. They used halo getters as well, but they’re the only manufacturer I’ve seen that used the UFO getters on their 6p14p/6bq5 tubes. I’m no historian however. In my eBay searches, they’re still easily attainable, very cheap, AND quite good - an absolute unicorn in today’s tube market!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My uncle had a box of old tubes in his basement.  My grandfather used to fix TVs.  This was in the box.  It looks brand new.  Nothing great in the box.  A perfect condition GE and Tungsol 12xx7.  I was hoping to find a real treasure, but didn't. I'll look at reflector tubes.  Thanks!


----------



## tholt

steve468 said:


> Specifically, I think those are Reflecktor made Russian tubes. They used halo getters as well, but they’re the only manufacturer I’ve seen that used the UFO getters on their 6p14p/6bq5 tubes. I’m no historian however. In my eBay searches, they’re still easily attainable, very cheap, AND quite good - an absolute unicorn in today’s tube market!


Agreed. I really like the Russian 6P14P-EV or K variants. You can tell they're robust, the glass is noticeably thicker than standard EL84s. Been using these in a few different amps over the years including currently. Great sounding tubes and can be had rather inexpensively. Vivatubes is a great seller for these


----------



## BudKine

I just had an easily noticeable improvement in sound quality by adding a big-ass 10 AWG power cable to the Pendant from my Furman PL-8 C power conditioner. The music was immediately more weighty and authoritative, at the same time becoming more defined and detailed. Instrument imaging and stage depth improved.

I was wondering what others are using in regards to RCAs, headphone cables, and power cables.  I would like to upgrade my headphone cable to improve the SQ there, as well.  Suggestions?  @Wes S  What is that headphone cable you’re using?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 26, 2022)

BudKine said:


> I just had an easily noticeable improvement in sound quality by adding a big-ass 10 AWG power cable to the Pendant from my Furman PL-8 C power conditioner. The music was immediately more weighty and authoritative, at the same time becoming more defined and detailed. Instrument imaging and stage depth improved.
> 
> I was wondering what others are using in regards to RCAs, headphone cables, and power cables.  I would like to upgrade my headphone cable to improve the SQ there, as well.  Suggestions?  @Wes S  What is that headphone cable you’re using?


Funny you should mention cables, as that's currently where I am at in my journey with my system.  I have been through lots of the Audioquest entry level stuff, and it's OK but you are paying more for the name.  Another budget brand I highly recommend is Pangea Audio.  I have been using their AC 14SE MKII power cord on all 3 of my components and that PC gets a big rec from me, and if you want to go the budget route that's where it's at.  Another company  I was recently recommended to try out cables from is Audio Envy.  A forum buddy of mine who's ears I trust swears by them and I have upgraded to one of their Power Cables (Ocean Elite 3P) on my DAC so far and I have been blown away, and so impressed I will be putting that PC on both my Streamer and Amp eventually.  As for RCA's, I have been using some Audioquest Red River and they are great, but as of 2 days ago, I just upgraded to Audio Envy Studio Prestige RCA's and they have been blowing my mind.  As for headphone cable, I use nothing but Norne Audio for that, and I am currently running a Draug 3s (all OCC copper), of which has been discontinued and now he offers a similar configuration called Drausk.  I have found once you are happy with your DAC and tube situation, cables can really help fine tune your system and some can really surprise you with how much they can influence the sound.

So I recommend Pangea Audio for budget friendly cables with amazing performance, and then for a bit pricier but "Endgame" performance I recommend Audio Envy, of which are still really affordable prices for what you get.

I have found cables can definitely make a difference with gear at this level, and the Audio Envy stuff is flat-out stunning.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

tholt said:


> Agreed. I really like the Russian 6P14P-EV or K variants. You can tell they're robust, the glass is noticeably thicker than standard EL84s. Been using these in a few different amps over the years including currently. Great sounding tubes and can be had rather inexpensively. Vivatubes is a great seller for these


I noticed the glass was thicker and overall heavier than my other other EL84s.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Just picked up a pair of Tungsol black glass 12au7.  They look interesting…..


----------



## cinisi (Jun 27, 2022)

Updated the chassis of my Pendant OG to Elm Burl  Very happy with the looks


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

That’s a beauty


----------



## tholt

4LoveOfSound said:


> Just picked up a pair of Tungsol black glass 12au7.  They look interesting…..


Those look cool



cinisi said:


> Updated the chassis of my Pendant OG to Elm Burl  Very happy with the looks


Did you get the new chassis via ZMF?


----------



## Wes S

cinisi said:


> Updated the chassis of my Pendant OG to Elm Burl  Very happy with the looks


Love that grain!


----------



## BudKine

cinisi said:


> Updated the chassis of my Pendant OG to Elm Burl  Very happy with the looks


very petty.  feels good, too, huh, to upgrade?  love it.  congrats


----------



## DenverW

4LoveOfSound said:


> Just picked up a pair of Tungsol black glass 12au7.  They look interesting…..


Curious to hear your thoughts.  I was pretty ho-hum on the tung sol 12au7, which is surprising because I very much like their 6080, 6as7g, 5998, 6sn7, ect.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

DenverW said:


> Curious to hear your thoughts.  I was pretty ho-hum on the tung sol 12au7, which is surprising because I very much like their 6080, 6as7g, 5998, 6sn7, ect.


They are supposed to arrive today.  If they do, I will have one fired up tonight.  I have not tried a TungSol 12au7 yet.  I do have 2 different 12BH7’s.  A grey plate that is unremarkable and a black plate that is excellent.  I decided to change out the Ken-Rad and went back to the Brimar Footscray CV4033.  After putting it in, it brought back what all the fuss @Wes S created over this tube was about!  I had stopped using it because it was noisy in the Pendant.  This time around, for what ever reason, it’s silent.  Looking forward to trying out the black glass Tungsol though.  I thought I was done buying tubes for the Pendant when I found the Ken-Rad.  Silly me, there is no such thing as being done buying tubes!


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## Wes S (Jun 29, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> They are supposed to arrive today.  If they do, I will have one fired up tonight.  I have not tried a TungSol 12au7 yet.  I do have 2 different 12BH7’s.  A grey plate that is unremarkable and a black plate that is excellent.  I decided to change out the Ken-Rad and went back to the Brimar Footscray CV4033.  After putting it in, it brought back what all the fuss @Wes S created over this tube was about!  I had stopped using it because it was noisy in the Pendant.  This time around, for what ever reason, it’s silent.  Looking forward to trying out the black glass Tungsol though.  I thought I was done buying tubes for the Pendant when I found the Ken-Rad.  Silly me, there is no such thing as being done buying tubes!


"there is no such thing as being done buying tubes!" . . . until you score a Telefunken G73R, and then the search is over.


----------



## msq123

Wes S said:


> "there is no such thing as being done buying tubes!" . . . until you score a Telefunken G73R, and then the search is over.


Apologies for my ignorance but what’s special about G73R? See them for $500 on couple of websites, is that about right?


----------



## jonathan c

4LoveOfSound said:


> Silly me, there is no such thing as being done buying tubes!


…silly rabbit (holer), Trix are for kids…tubes are for us…🤣


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## Wes S (Jun 29, 2022)

msq123 said:


> Apologies for my ignorance but what’s special about G73R? See them for $500 on couple of websites, is that about right?


It's an incredible super tube, that sounds unlike any other tube in the family or any 12AT7 or 12AX7 as well.  The transparency/detail is stunning with more nuance than I have ever heard, combined with texture you can feel and an organic richness that adds weight to the notes but never steers into bloated as the speed is insane with tight hard hitting bass, mids and vocals so lifelike sounding it's scary, and a very airy and extended but smooth and fatigue free top end and then on top of all that the staging is so massive and holographic it really is in a league of it's own.  I call it a super tube, because of the sonics and also because it is rated for 40,000 hours.  The price is insane, but unfortunately it's the going rate these days.  I can tell you this, it's been a revelation and big ease off my mind and bank account, not looking for tubes anymore, as I know nothing can top or come close to this one.  So, I definitely think it's worth the price of admission, as a "one and done" kind of tube purchase.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> "there is no such thing as being done buying tubes!" . . . until you score a Telefunken G73R, and then the search is over.


You've been 'done' buying tubes as many times as I have, and it appears we both suck at not buying any more tubes.  🤣🤣


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## Wes S (Jun 30, 2022)

bcowen said:


> You've been 'done' buying tubes as many times as I have, and it appears we both suck at not buying any more tubes.  🤣🤣


This is true, however this time I am serious, as the difference between the G73R and all the other tubes is quite large and obvious.  Nothing compares, and I have not even thought about or looked at other tubes since rolling in and hearing what the G73R can do.  I am literally researched out (years of daily research), and G73R really is the end of the road.  With every other tube I have tried or fallen in love with in the past, there was always a compromise somewhere with the sound as none of them were perfect, until I found the G73R.  This tube is very special, and in a league all by itself.

Everytime I put the headphones on with the G73R in the amp, I constantly say OMG over and over in my head song after song, as this tube really makes every recording sound incredible and more lifelike than I have ever heard before.  The holographic staging and it's ability to produce all the little nuances is flat out insane!


----------



## msq123

Wes S said:


> It's an incredible super tube, that sounds unlike any other tube in the family or any 12AT7 or 12AX7 as well.  The transparency/detail is stunning with more nuance than I have ever heard, combined with texture you can feel and an organic richness that adds weight to the notes but never steers into bloated as the speed is insane with tight hard hitting bass, mids and vocals so lifelike sounding it's scary, and a very airy and extended but smooth and fatigue free top end and then on top of all that the staging is so massive and holographic it really is in a league of it's own.  I call it a super tube, because of the sonics and also because it is rated for 40,000 hours.  The price is insane, but unfortunately it's the going rate these days.  I can tell you this, it's been a revelation and big ease off my mind and bank account, not looking for tubes anymore, as I know nothing can top or come close to this one.  So, I definitely think it's worth the price of admission, as a "one and done" kind of tube purchase.



Thanks for your explanation, really intrigued now. I was thinking of replacing pendant with Cayin HA 300 mk2 which use 2 x 300b and 2 x 6SN7GTB.  I know 300b are very difficult to find, is that a tube you have experience with? I will start with stock GoldLion 300 and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB but will look to step up eventually.  

Do you have any thoughts on tubes equivalent to G73R which I could look in to for Cayin.  From what you have said about G73R I might just hold on to pendant or get something else which could use this tube down the line.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 30, 2022)

msq123 said:


> Thanks for your explanation, really intrigued now. I was thinking of replacing pendant with Cayin HA 300 mk2 which use 2 x 300b and 2 x 6SN7GTB.  I know 300b are very difficult to find, is that a tube you have experience with? I will start with stock GoldLion 300 and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB but will look to step up eventually.
> 
> Do you have any thoughts on tubes equivalent to G73R which I could look in to for Cayin.  From what you have said about G73R I might just hold on to pendant or get something else which could use this tube down the line.


Sure thing, and you are actually in a similar place as I am with looking at other amps.  However, am not looking to replace my Pendant SE, and I am thinking of adding another to the mix for variety.  I have been looking at the Cayin HA300mk2, DNA Stratus V4 and Decware OTL, as my next amp.  However, the Pendant SE really is so freaking good, especially with the G73R that I am not in a rush.

As for tubes for the HA300mk2, if I go that route I will definitely be going with New Production Western Electric 300B,  as they are said to sound almost as good as the OG version, are easily attainable and have a 5 year warranty, but they are pricey.  As for driver tubes (6SN7), I would actually get some adapters and run two 6J5'S per channel instead, as the NOS 6SN7 market is just about dried up, and there are some really good NOS 6J5 still available like G.E.C.  That being said, I don't know of any "super" tubes equal to G73R that could be used in the HA300mk2, and it's the same kind of tube situation with the Stratus as well.  The Decware/ZMF OTL collab is the one I am most interested in, as I would be able to use the G73R as the driver tube with an adapter in that amp, so that is most likely the amp I will be going with next.  If I do go with the Decware OTL, the G73R will be splitting time between both the Pendant SE and the OTL, and I won't have to buy any other driver tubes, so that would be a big plus.

Of note, the other tubes in my Pendant SE, the Funkwerk Erfurt EL84 WPFG and RFT EZ81 WPFG, play a big role in letting the G73R do all that it can do.  So, as good as the G73R is, it still requires a good pairing with the power and rectifier tubes to really let it's magic come through.


----------



## hikaru12 (Jul 3, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Funny you should mention cables, as that's currently where I am at in my journey with my system.  I have been through lots of the Audioquest entry level stuff, and it's OK but you are paying more for the name.  Another budget brand I highly recommend is Pangea Audio.  I have been using their AC 14SE MKII power cord on all 3 of my components and that PC gets a big rec from me, and if you want to go the budget route that's where it's at.  Another company  I was recently recommended to try out cables from is Audio Envy.  A forum buddy of mine who's ears I trust swears by them and I have upgraded to one of their Power Cables (Ocean Elite 3P) on my DAC so far and I have been blown away, and so impressed I will be putting that PC on both my Streamer and Amp eventually.  As for RCA's, I have been using some Audioquest Red River and they are great, but as of 2 days ago, I just upgraded to Audio Envy Studio Prestige RCA's and they have been blowing my mind.  As for headphone cable, I use nothing but Norne Audio for that, and I am currently running a Draug 3s (all OCC copper), of which has been discontinued and now he offers a similar configuration called Drausk.  I have found once you are happy with your DAC and tube situation, cables can really help fine tune your system and some can really surprise you with how much they can influence the sound.
> 
> So I recommend Pangea Audio for budget friendly cables with amazing performance, and then for a bit pricier but "Endgame" performance I recommend Audio Envy, of which are still really affordable prices for what you get.
> 
> I have found cables can definitely make a difference with gear at this level, and the Audio Envy stuff is flat-out stunning.


I can attest to Audio Envy’s stuff. It brings out a musicality especially in the mid range that I haven’t heard in other cables. It does slightly assist in micro detail as well and it’s pretty affordable. I have noticed stacking the cables too much is too much of a good thing as I now have gone back to a different power cord for my streamer.

@Wes S - have you compared the Telefunken to the GEC AC2900? I recall you having heard that ultra rare tube as well.


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## Wes S (Jul 3, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> I can attest to Audio Envy’s stuff. It brings out a musicality especially in the mid range that I haven’t heard in other cables. It does slightly assist in micro detail as well and it’s pretty affordable. I have noticed stacking the cables too much is too much of a good thing as I now have gone back to a different power cord for my streamer.
> 
> @Wes S - have you compared the Telefunken to the GEC AC2900? I recall you having heard that ultra rare tube as well.


Interesting, as I and several other's I have been chatting with have noticed the more Audio Envy cables you stack, the better it gets, and they were designed that way from AE.    Also, the GEC A2900 can't be used in the Pendant, so I have not tried that one.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> Interesting, as I and several other's I have been chatting with have noticed the more Audio Envy cables you stack, the better it gets, and they maker designed it that way.  Also, the GEC A2900 can't be used in the Pendant, so I have not tried that one.


Ah I thought it was a 12AT7 variant my bad. In my experience I’ve found that it begins to blur detail as it imparts too much warmth. I’ll keep trying with different tube sets to see if I get a different opinion but at least with my speakers I have noticed that as a difference. I do intend to check out those RCA cables.


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## Wes S (Jul 4, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Ah I thought it was a 12AT7 variant my bad. In my experience I’ve found that it begins to blur detail as it imparts too much warmth. I’ll keep trying with different tube sets to see if I get a different opinion but at least with my speakers I have noticed that as a difference. I do intend to check out those RCA cables.


The Audio Envy RCA's are super fast and detailed and with good stage expansion and balance out the hint of warmth/mid focus you get with their PC, and they really are tuned to work as a system.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Interesting, as I and several other's I have been chatting with have noticed the more Audio Envy cables you stack, the better it gets, and they were designed that way from AE.    Also, the GEC A2900 can't be used in the Pendant, so I have not tried that one.


Why cannot the GEC A2900 be used in the Pendant? Is it not a 12AT7 type? Does the A2900 have a particular characteristic which eliminates its use in Pendant? 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## nwavesailor

jonathan c said:


> Why cannot the GEC A2900 be used in the Pendant? Is it not a 12AT7 type? Does the A2900 have a particular characteristic which eliminates its use in Pendant? 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️


I can't remember why, (current draw?) but Justin said the A2900 was a No-Go in the Pendant.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I can't remember why, (current draw?) but Justin said the A2900 was a No-Go in the Pendant.


I looked up the specs, and it appears the A2900 pulls twice the Va (500), compared to the 12AT7 (250), so perhaps that's why the A2900 can't be used in the Pendant.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I looked up the specs, and it appears the A2900 pulls twice the Va (500), compared to the 12AT7 (250), so perhaps that's why the A2900 can't be used in the Pendant.


Thank you Wes.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I’ve tried the TungSol black glass 12au7’s.  The black coating is thinner in spots and they appear to have grey plates.  They have the most bass of any tube I have tried however it comes at a cost.  That bass muddies clarity/detail compared to other tubes I have.  The bass is just a little more than the early 60’s RCA clear glass 12au7, which also muddies clarity a little.  Depending on what I am listening too (poorly mastered rock) it doesn’t really matter.  They are a little forward sounding which doesn’t allow instruments to fully be separated in presentation, but still have an incredible 3D effect unlike anything else I have heard.  The highs are clear, but just like the 12bh7 grey plate TungSol I have, cause irritation for me.  The black plate 12bh7 I have does not do that.  Overall, the black glass TungSol 12au7 has a unique sound to it that is just different than any other tubes I have.  I just can’t listen to it for hours on end because of the fatigue I get from the highs.  The 1950/51’ Ken-Rad/GE 5814/12au7 pewter plate is still my King!  I just love that tube.  It is well balanced and the clarity is astonishing with a crazy holographic sound.  I have tried the 12bh7 and 12ax7 versions as well and they just don’t have the same holographic presentation as the 12au7.  The 12ax7 pewter plate sounds very similar in every other regard with a touch more bass, but just not the same.  The 12bh7 has the most bass weight of the three, but doesn’t have the clarity or the holographic presentation.

On another note, I bought an old Mercury tube tester off the Bay.  Seems to work OK.  I‘ve tried a few tubes in it and actually found a 6922 I have for my Vali 2 that had a short.  A pair of inexpensive supposed “NOS” tubes I have read at 65%.  You get what you pay for I guess.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 5, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I’ve tried the TungSol black glass 12au7’s.  The black coating is thinner in spots and they appear to have grey plates.  They have the most bass of any tube I have tried however it comes at a cost.  That bass muddies clarity/detail compared to other tubes I have.  The bass is just a little more than the early 60’s RCA clear glass 12au7, which also muddies clarity a little.  Depending on what I am listening too (poorly mastered rock) it doesn’t really matter.  They are a little forward sounding which doesn’t allow instruments to fully be separated in presentation, but still have an incredible 3D effect unlike anything else I have heard.  The highs are clear, but just like the 12bh7 grey plate TungSol I have, cause irritation for me.  The black plate 12bh7 I have does not do that.  Overall, the black glass TungSol 12au7 has a unique sound to it that is just different than any other tubes I have.  I just can’t listen to it for hours on end because of the fatigue I get from the highs.  The 1950/51’ Ken-Rad/GE 5814/12au7 pewter plate is still my King!  I just love that tube.  It is well balanced and the clarity is astonishing with a crazy holographic sound.  I have tried the 12bh7 and 12ax7 versions as well and they just don’t have the same holographic presentation as the 12au7.  The 12ax7 pewter plate sounds very similar in every other regard with a touch more bass, but just not the same.  The 12bh7 has the most bass weight of the three, but doesn’t have the clarity or the holographic presentation.
> 
> On another note, I bought an old Mercury tube tester off the Bay.  Seems to work OK.  I‘ve tried a few tubes in it and actually found a 6922 I have for my Vali 2 that had a short.  A pair of inexpensive supposed “NOS” tubes I have read at 65%.  You get what you pay for I guess.


Good stuff!  You know you are in deep, when you buy a tube tester. 

I love reading about tube rolling adventures, and thanks for sharing!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Good stuff!  You know you are in deep, when you buy a tube tester.
> 
> I love reading about tube rolling adventures, and thanks for sharing!


Hahaha, I guess so. It was $100. Not a fancy expensive one. It’s able to check for gas leakage, shorts and quality (good/bad with life percentage).  You can get up there in price really fast with the more advanced testers.  This is a fun hobby!


----------



## BudKine (Jul 6, 2022)

@Wes S @4LoveOfSound  Could I please get some help identifying these tubes? They are labeled ‘’GE’’ and the seller claims that they are “GE/Ken-Rad pewter plates with silver clips and square getters”.  They test at 90/90 and 92/92 respectively.  What think ye?






Thank you (-:


----------



## UntilThen

Lay off GEC A2900 guys. They are only for me.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Lay off GEC A2900 guys. They are only for me.


I have two pairs also.


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> I have two pairs also.



Only tube connoisseurs are worthy of GEC A2900.  Now show me how you use yours.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 6, 2022)

I have them in a pair rotation with RFT ECC81 foil getter, Brimar CV455 KB/FB, Telefunken ECC801S within:  Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Woo WA2, WA3, WA6. [The LTA takes 12AT7 tubes ‘natively’.]


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> I have them in a pair rotation with RFT ECC81 foil getter, Brimar CV455 KB/FB, Telefunken ECC801S within: Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Woo WA2, WA3, WA6. [The LTA takes 12AT7 tubes ‘natively’.]



I also have the GEC A2900, Brimar CV455 KB/FB and Telefunken ECC801S in rotation.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> I also have the GEC A2900, Brimar CV455 KB/FB and Telefunken ECC801S in rotation.


Great minds……👍☑️


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> Great minds……👍☑️



I learn about Footscray from you. If it isn't good I would have blame you !


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2022)

BudKine said:


> @Wes S @4LoveOfSound  Could I please get some help identifying these tubes? They are labeled ‘’GE’’ and the seller claims that they are “GE/Ken-Rad pewter plates with silver clips and square getters”.  They test at 90/90 and 92/92 respectively.  What think ye?
> 
> Thank you (-:


Those look legit to me, and I know they are @4LoveOfSound's favorite tube.


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## Wes S (Jul 7, 2022)

UntilThen said:


> I also have the GEC A2900, Brimar CV455 KB/FB and Telefunken ECC801S in rotation.


Nice tubes, and speaking of being a tube connoisseur. . . you are missing one, and I bet it will best them all and it's not a 12AT7.   I will take a killer 12AU7 (Telefunken G73R) over any 12AT7 everytime in my Pendant SE, and it's not even close.

Say hello to the end of the road for this tube connoisseur, and pretty much everyone who has heard one.  The searching, buying and rolling stops with this one, and it's just pure blissful listening without thinking about anything but how insanely lifelike the music sounds from here on out.  Truly an "Endgame" tube.


----------



## UntilThen

When I stop paying Bcowen, I may be able to afford a $380 G73R. I can use 12AU7 in Odyssey and I'll be the judge of that.


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## Wes S (Jul 7, 2022)

UntilThen said:


> When I stop paying Bcowen, I may be able to afford a $380 G73R. I can use 12AU7 in Odyssey and I'll be the judge of that.


A very wise man (@nwavesailor) taught me that I could keep buying great sounding affordable tubes spending way over $500 in the end, or I could just go straight to the top (G73R) and be done.  I fought this man's excellent advice for a while, but finally gave in and wish I would have done it sooner, as I have accumulated a bunch of great tubes (serious amount of money spent) that are collecting dust and will never get used again.  I absolutely love tube rolling (of which a quick read through this thread will confirm ), but the G73R is so much better than the all the rest, that I am done.


----------



## DenverW

I wouldn’t mind trying a a2900 on my bigger Ben.  I’ve got a lot of good tubes of someone would like to reach out and discuss a trade.

In fact, I sold my Telefunken g73r and kept my best and favorites (ha! Sorry wes!  It’s all a matter of taste!)


----------



## UntilThen

Wes S said:


> A very wise man (@nwavesailor) taught me that I could keep buying great sounding affordable tubes spending way over $500 in the end, or I could just go straight to the top (G73R) and be done.  I fought this man's excellent advice for a while, but finally gave in and wish I would have done it sooner, as I have accumulated a bunch of great tubes (serious amount of money spent) that are collecting dust and will never get used again.  I absolutely love tube rolling (of which a quick read through this thread will confirm ), but the G73R is so much better than the all the rest, that I am done.



Before I could reply, DenverW said it. It's possibly a matter of preference and your system chain.

Could you describe the sound characteristics of G73R ? Neutral, warm or bright. Layered or lean. Or any words you would normally describe tube tone.


----------



## UntilThen

DenverW said:


> I wouldn’t mind trying a a2900 on my bigger Ben.  I’ve got a lot of good tubes of someone would like to reach out and discuss a trade.
> 
> In fact, I sold my Telefunken g73r and kept my best and favorites (ha! Sorry wes!  It’s all a matter of taste!)



What are your best and favorites if I may ask?


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> What are your best and favorites if I may ask?


…😄 don’t ask to ask, just ask!…😆


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> When I stop paying Bcowen, I may be able to afford a $380 G73R. I can use 12AU7 in Odyssey and I'll be the judge of that.


I just found a new business venture.  Grab some $2 Chinese tubes, paint them black, and then write G73R on them with a paint pen.  Genuis!  I'll offer mine for less, like $500 a pair for quick sale though.


----------



## DenverW

UntilThen said:


> What are your best and favorites if I may ask?


For 12au7 my top three so far would be:

Lorenz welded plate circle getter (impossible to find)
Amperex welded plate 45 degree slant getter
Marconi b329 black plate

There are a few tubes that can be found on the cheap that I also enjoy quite a bit: the  amperex 6fq7/6cg7 with an adapter, Mullard 10M gold pin 12at7 (the 12at7 versions can be found on the cheap, the 12ax7 are VERY expensive) and telefunken smooth plate 12au7.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2022)

DenverW said:


> For 12au7 my top three so far would be:
> 
> Lorenz welded plate circle getter (impossible to find)
> Amperex welded plate 45 degree slant getter
> ...


First off, I have seen pics of your "Lorenz" in the BHC thread, and that's actually not Lorenz it's a Tungsram (of which the earlier black welded plates are even better by the way, but still nowhere close to a G73R).   A true Lorenz (of which I also have) sounds nothing like the Tungsram.  Also, you are the only person I have come across that has heard the G73R and not preferred it over everything else. . .?  As for the other two in your top three, I have been through those too, and the G73R smokes them in my opinion, and it's not even close.  When it comes to the transparency, tone, timbre, holographic staging, detail, texture, ability to produce nuance and feeling like being there, nothing and I mean nothing compares to the G73R in the Pendant SE.  I definitely think we are looking for a different type of sound.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2022)

UntilThen said:


> Before I could reply, DenverW said it. It's possibly a matter of preference and your system chain.
> 
> Could you describe the sound characteristics of G73R ? Neutral, warm or bright. Layered or lean. Or any words you would normally describe tube tone.


Yep, it's entirely possible the headphones, cables, other tubes, PREFERENCES, amp, DAC, hearing, etc. . . . could influence the sound and how he heard the G73R.

The sound characteristics of the G73R - the tightest deepest most articulate and textured bass I have heard from a tube and only slams when it is called for and never gets in the way.  The mids are so textured, layered and detailed with such a lifelike timbre in the instruments and vocals it's haunting.  This tube is warm yet super fast, highly detailed and transparent (combines the best of both worlds), and just gets out of the way, with a very extended and airy top end, that never gets harsh at all.  It's flat out magical how this tube sounds so detailed and organic/analog like at the same time.  I have never heard so much nuance and detail ever, and it's never forced sounding at all.  The staging is where the magic really happens and this tube is so holographic and expansive it makes the headphones disappear and sound fills the entire room.  Hell, it doesn't even sound like the music is coming from the cups with my VC's, and sounds just explode out of the blackest most silent background all around my head and way outside the cups.  Talk about an experience!

Read through this thread if you want more opinions from some heavy hitters that have some of the better gear and trained ears in this forum and hobby and they all think the G73R is quite special like me.  They even go on to compare the unique sound of the G73R to that of a very high end reel to reel type sound at one point in the thread. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/riv...eakers-amplifier.936387/page-29#post-16838052. Another heavy hitter in the industry, John Massaria has some great things to say about the G73R as well in this amp review- https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cypher-labs-prautes-headphone-amplifier.25706/#sc-comment-3250

All that being said, we all have different preferences and gear, and I am just telling it like I hear it in my Pendant SE with my VC's.  My preferences in sound, are to try and make it as lifelike as possible, of which requires excellent bass (textured and slams only when called for and never gets in the way), lifelike timbre with instruments and vocals, detail and nuance in full effect in the mids and extended and airy top end with expansive holographic staging and the G73R does this clearly better than all the other tubes I have tried.  I listen to a lot of live recorded acoustic music, Folk, and Bluegrass, and it sounds so real/lifelike in my syatem with the G73R it's nuts.  The last thing I will say, is that I was actually thinking about upgrading and possibly selling my Pendant SE before getting this tube, and now I feel like I already upgraded.  It made that much of a difference in my system to where it sounds as if I went up a level in gear, and my Pendant SE is not going anywhere now and is staying for the long haul.  

Happy Listening.


----------



## UntilThen

Wes S said:


> This tube is warm yet highly detailed and transparent



Fair enough and thanks for your thoughts on it.

Being a Telefunken, your description of it above kind of surprise me because warm and Telefunken are usually not mention in the same paragraph. It must be a special tube.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2022)

UntilThen said:


> Fair enough and thanks for your thoughts on it.
> 
> Being a Telefunken, your description of it above kind of surprise me because warm and Telefunken are usually not mention in the same paragraph. It must be a special tube.


I was surprised as well, and I don't even like the brightish neutral Telefunken "house sound" at all, and that was a big reason why it took me so long to give it a try.  The G73R is very unique and unlike any Tele I have ever heard.


----------



## DenverW (Jul 8, 2022)

Wes S said:


> First off, I have seen pics of your "Lorenz" in the BHC thread, and that's actually not Lorenz it's a Tungsram (of which the earlier black welded plates are even better by the way, but still nowhere close to a G73R).   A true Lorenz (of which I also have) sounds nothing like the Tungsram.  Also, you are the only person I have come across that has heard the G73R and not preferred it over everything else. . .?  As for the other two in your top three, I have been through those too, and the G73R smokes them in my opinion, and it's not even close.  When it comes to the transparency, tone, timbre, holographic staging, detail, texture, ability to produce nuance and feeling like being there, nothing and I mean nothing compares to the G73R in the Pendant SE.  I definitely think we are looking for a different type of sound.


That is great news, actually!  I love the tube, now I can find more .  You should have said something long ago instead of keeping the info!  Audio is great fun, a tube I find decent is unbeatable for you on your amp and gear.  I agree with you that there are many things that lead to enjoyment, my preferences are different, I suppose.  If you have a welded plate lorenz circle getter feel free to sell it to me .


----------



## BudKine

You know, we’ve talked about cable upgrades, has anyone tried upgrading their fuse? The Synergistic Research Purple and Orange fuses seem to get a lot of nods.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 9, 2022)

While I do not own a Pendant SE, I can / will vouch for the amazing results from a fuse upgrade to the SR Purple in a number of my h/p/a. Others in the SRP choir are @Wes S (Pendant, Rogue RH-1), @billerb1 (Woo WA2), @audio duck (Woo WA2)…🎼 😀😀😀🎵


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> While I do not own a Pendant SE, I can / will vouch for the amazing results from a fuse upgrade to the SR Purple in a number of my h/p/a. Others in the SRP choir are @Wes S (Pendant), @billerb1 (Woo WA2), @audio duck (Woo WA2)…🎼 😀😀😀🎵


True dat.  EVERYTHING got better.


----------



## UntilThen

Sounds like a wonder drug this super fuse.


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## Wes S (Jul 9, 2022)

BudKine said:


> You know, we’ve talked about cable upgrades, has anyone tried upgrading their fuse? The Synergistic Research Purple and Orange fuses seem to get a lot of nods.


I used the Synergistic Research Purple in my old RH-5 when I had it, and it's an incredible and worth every penny.  Unfortunately, the size fuse that the Pendant SE uses (5mm × 20mm  750ma slow blow), is not made by any Audio Grade fuse companies.  I have been meaning to ask Justin if we can use the next size up from Synergistic Research the 800ma, but I have been so enamored with the upgrade in performance with my G73R and Audio Envy IC's, that I have not got around to it yet.  I am not willing to mess up this sound or damage my amp without finding out from Justin if it's OK, but I know that many actually go up a size with Audio Grade fuses quite often as they are said to be rated conservatively.

If anyone knows or if @ampsandsound is reading this, can we use an 800ma fuse in the Pendant SE?


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I used the Synergistic Research Purple in my old RH-5 when I had it, and it's an incredible and worth every penny.  Unfortunately, the size fuse that the Pendant SE uses (5mm × 20mm  750ma slow blow), is not made by any Audio Grade fuse companies.  I have been meaning to ask Justin if we can use the next size up from Synergistic Research the 800ma, but I have been so enamored with the upgrade in performance with my G73R and Audio Envy IC's, that I have not got around to it yet.  I am not willing to mess up this sound or damage my amp without finding out from Justin if it's OK, but I know that many actually go up a size with Audio Grade fuses quite often as they are said to be rated conservatively.
> 
> If anyone knows or if @ampsandsound is reading this, can we use an 800ma fuse in the Pendant SE?


I can't (and won't) speak specifically to the Pendant, but in general at the 750ma rating a 50 milliamp difference is practically nothing, and there's probably at least that much variance in the manufacturing tolerances of the fuse anyway.  Now if the specified rating was 100ma then a 50ma difference would obviously be substantial, but not at 750ma.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> Sounds like a wonder drug this super fuse.


If you have a short fuse, then a longer one can be a nice upgrade.     

Seriously, this is a rather contentious subject. From an electrical standpoint it makes little sense, but from a sonic standpoint all I will say is that I hear a (positive) difference and leave it at that.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2022)

bcowen said:


> I can't (and won't) speak specifically to the Pendant, but in general at the 750ma rating a 50 milliamp difference is practically nothing, and there's probably at least that much variance in the manufacturing tolerances of the fuse anyway.  Now if the specified rating was 100ma then a 50ma difference would obviously be substantial, but not at 750ma.


Thanks for the info, and that's what I was my thinking too.  I am most likely going to be giving a SR Purple a try in the Pendant soon.


----------



## nwavesailor

Fuses????
Not a rabbit hole I'm going down. Heck, I can't see power cords and wall outlets so a fuse is a NO-GO for this guy!

One mans opinion..............


----------



## tholt

BudKine said:


> You know, we’ve talked about cable upgrades, has anyone tried upgrading their fuse? The Synergistic Research Purple and Orange fuses seem to get a lot of nods.


I've had their Blue fuses for years (which at the time was their best) in all my gear that I can swap fuses. Always made a slight but noticeably positive difference. Will likely upgrade the Pendant fuse in the future. I was also wondering about the 750ma rating vs 800ma that's offered by SR, but I can't imagine the 50ma difference being consequential. Even using a 1a fuse would probably be fine.

IMO this is a smaller upgrade vs other things you can do, like rolling better tubes for instance. But can make a positive difference overall. 


Wes S said:


> but I know that many actually go up a size with Audio Grade fuses quite often as they are said to be rated conservatively.


Have also heard this. I have a higher rated fuse in my music server than it came with. I can't remember who said it, maybe the manufacturer, but I know this was recommended.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

BudKine said:


> @Wes S @4LoveOfSound  Could I please get some help identifying these tubes? They are labeled ‘’GE’’ and the seller claims that they are “GE/Ken-Rad pewter plates with silver clips and square getters”.  They test at 90/90 and 92/92 respectively.  What think ye?
> 
> Thank you (-:


Sorry, I haven’t been on in a while.  Busy week.  Those look like my Ken-Rad/GE pewter plates.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 10, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> Fuses????
> Not a rabbit hole I'm going down. Heck, I can't see power cords and wall outlets so a fuse is a NO-GO for this guy!
> 
> One mans opinion..............


My man, in my opinion you are missing out, and especially with the caliber of gear you have.  Power cables, IC's, ethernet cable, fuses, and tubes all get equal love from me and can all make a substantial difference (good or bad) in my opinion.

Wall outlets and power conditioning are up next for me. . .

Got to love this hobby, and it seems one can take it as far as they want and then some, or be content with what they have and just enjoy the music.


----------



## nwavesailor

I am not a EE but Power conditioners, tubes and IC's is as far as I'm willing to go.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> My man, in my opinion you are missing out, and especially with the caliber of gear you have.  Power cables, IC's, ethernet cable, fuses, and tubes all get equal love from me and can all make a substantial difference (good or bad) in my opinion.
> 
> Wall outlets and power conditioning are up next for me. . .
> 
> Got to love this hobby, and it seems one can take it as far as they want and then some, or be content with what they have and just enjoy the music.


Yeah I can't explain it but I can sure hear it.  As Jonathan C said to me when I was dragging my feet on the Synergistic Research Purple fuse...

"One has to be deaf or dead to not hear staggering improvements from SRP. $200 may seem a lot to the fuse cynics. To me, absolutely worth it!"

That pretty much says it all.  As you were, men.


----------



## tholt

nwavesailor said:


> I am not a EE but Power conditioners, tubes and IC's is as far as I'm willing to go.


It's nuts and controversial no doubt, especially things like ethernet cables and fuses, but try before you decry


----------



## nwavesailor

I'll gladly watch from the sidelines as others buy, try and enjoy these items but I will sit this out.


----------



## BudKine

@Wes S I recently purchased the Furman PL-8C Power Conditioner and I’m very happy with it. I am using it exclusively for both of my amplifiers and my DAC. It’s list price is $249, but it can be found for between $150 to $200.


----------



## jonathan c

And here is another Furman: I use this one. [Six sockets in back]


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 10, 2022)

I like a power conditioner which will take an upgraded power cord.  I don't like
being stuck with the stock cord attached.  I mean, isn't that the whole point ?


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I like a power conditioner which will take an upgraded power cord.  I don't like
> being stuck with the stock cord attached.  I mean, isn't that the whole point ?


Even newborns have the umbilical cord removed…👨‍⚕️👩‍⚕️🩺…😄


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> And here is another Furman: I use this one. [Six sockets in back]



A pair of Ye Olde Shunyata Hydra 2's.  Still do the job after all these years...


----------



## Wes S (Jul 11, 2022)

For those interested in upgrading the fuse on the Pendant SE, I got confirmation from Justin (Ampsandsound) that the 800ma fuse is ok to use.  

So, I am definitely upgrading the fuse in mine, however I did some research yesterday and it appears there is a new "King" in the world of audiophile grade fuses and the SR Purple is not it anymore.  The new "King" of the fuse world, the Audio Magic Masterpiece M1 Beeswax, is the one I will be going with very soon.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 12, 2022)

Order has been placed for an Audio Magic M1 fuse.    Fun times ahead. . .


----------



## BudKine

Order has been placed for an SR Purple fuse.  Shipped today.  30-day return policy, so I may return it for the M1.  I will be most interested to see what Wesley has to say about the M1.  The M1 has an 8-14 day manufacture/wait time.  This will be my first time trying a fuse upgrade, and my anticipation prevented me from waiting for the M1.  Fun times ahead for me, too.    Impressions pending.


----------



## nwavesailor

I don't have bat ears and I know I need BIG, not subtle, differences for me to actually hear and get excited. I am surprised that there is a 30 return policy but still not gonna go down that rabbit hole for $300. 
That's 2/3 of a G-73R and my old ears could hear that!!!


----------



## tholt

BudKine said:


> Order has been placed for an SR Purple fuse.  Shipped today.  30-day return policy, so I may return it for the M1.  I will be most interested to see what Wesley has to say about the M1.  The M1 has an 8-14 day manufacture/wait time.  This will be my first time trying a fuse upgrade, and my anticipation prevented me from waiting for the M1.  Fun times ahead for me, too.    Impressions pending.


I'm intrigued. Who gives a 30 day return policy?


----------



## jonathan c

VH Audio states that.


----------



## BudKine

@tholt https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses
It is stated in the body of the fuse description that there is a 30 day, no risk money back guarantee.

It’s also worth reading through the reviews.


----------



## tholt

Cool. Thanks for the info both


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2022)

BudKine said:


> @tholt https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses
> It is stated in the body of the fuse description that there is a 30 day, no risk money back guarantee.
> 
> It’s also worth reading through the reviews.


My review is one of the first on that site, and there's definitely an overwhelming amount of positive reviews for this fuse.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2022)

nwavesailor said:


> I don't have bat ears and I know I need BIG, not subtle, differences for me to actually hear and get excited. I am surprised that there is a 30 return policy but still not gonna go down that rabbit hole for $300.
> That's 2/3 of a G-73R and my old ears could hear that!!!


If you can hear what the G73R can do, you would appreciate the fuse as well.  They both influence the sound in a similar way, as in an obvious improvement in all areas.

Just to clarify - The 30 day satisfaction guarantee return policy is only for the SR Purple at $200, and the fuse I went with (Audio Magic M1 - $300) is made to order and does not come with the 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

I think for those on the fence the SR Purple is definitely the way to go, and for those like myself that already know how transformative a good fuse is, then go with the M1 if you want to go straight to the top.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2022)

BudKine said:


> Order has been placed for an SR Purple fuse.  Shipped today.  30-day return policy, so I may return it for the M1.  I will be most interested to see what Wesley has to say about the M1.  The M1 has an 8-14 day manufacture/wait time.  This will be my first time trying a fuse upgrade, and my anticipation prevented me from waiting for the M1.  Fun times ahead for me, too.    Impressions pending.


Nice!  I have a good feeling we are both going to be extremely satisfied.  I think you would have to hear the 2 fuses back to back to actual hear which one you prefer over the other.  My dealer, Alfred at Highend Electronics, told me most are preferring the M1 over the Purple.  He also said, the Purple is said to bit a bit more dynamic and the M1 is said to be more balanced and organic sounding.

I don't think you can go wrong with either one, but it looks like many that had the Purple do prefer the M1 in this thread below.  Of note, start reading at page 174, and the interesting thing is that the M1 completely took over this thread dedicated to the Purple.

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/purple-fuse-upgrade/27647/174

After reading that thread and based off what my dealer said, I just had to go for the M1 or I would always be wondering how much better it could get if I went with the Purple.  Audio Magic and Synergistic Research seem to be in this never ending battle for the "best" fuse and they have been trading blows over the years by one upping each other back and forth, and it seems Audio Magic just might be on top at the moment. . .either way I know you are going to love that Purple fuse.


----------



## jonathan c

…whatever the fuse colour, as long as AM and SR keep ‘black & bluing’ each other, that is to our benefit…😜


----------



## tholt

New member of the G73R club. Bought from Brent Jessee, he had one available. Arrived yesterday, so burn-in is still in process. What little hours on it sound promising


----------



## BudKine

The Synergistic Energy PURPLE Quantum fuse arrived. Without hesitation, I placed it in the fuse holder and fired up the trusty Pendant SE to warm up. After an hour and ½, I donned my gorgeous ZMF LTD Ironwood Vérité OB, loaded my “Headphones” playlist and proceeded to analyze for discernible improvements.

Well, that didn’t take long. Initially, changes seemed subtle. But, with further listening and increased burn in, instrument imaging, vocals and bass became more distinct, articulate and defined, and now, obviously evident sound quality refinement.  Overall, system sounds fantastic. No regrets here. Now I’m considering upgrading my DAC fuse. Closer to endgame. Now for some Telefunken G73-Rs (which are on their way in the mail).


----------



## Wes S (Jul 19, 2022)

BudKine said:


> The Synergistic Energy PURPLE Quantum fuse arrived. Without hesitation, I placed it in the fuse holder and fired up the trusty Pendant SE to warm up. After an hour and ½, I donned my gorgeous ZMF LTD Ironwood Vérité OB, loaded my “Headphones” playlist and proceeded to analyze for discernible improvements.
> 
> Well, that didn’t take long. Initially, changes seemed subtle. But, with further listening and increased burn in, instrument imaging, vocals and bass became more distinct, articulate and defined, and now, obviously evident sound quality refinement.  Overall, system sounds fantastic. No regrets here. Now I’m considering upgrading my DAC fuse. Closer to endgame. Now for some Telefunken G73-Rs (which are on their way in the mail).


Yeah buddy!  I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the G73R.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 19, 2022)

Look what showed up ealry!   Just installed it and it's burning in as I type this.  I did have a quick listen and let's just say I think this one is definitely legit.

More to come on the changes to the sound after the recommended 125 hours of burn in. . .


----------



## tholt

The package and fuse are presented like a wedding ring 

Wes, I do.


----------



## billerb1

Clearing out some of my gear.  Check my signature below.  PM me with questions.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 20, 2022)

I am about 15 hours in with the AM M1 fuse, and I am completely blown away with what I am hearing.  It sounds as if I have "pierced the veil", as in going from sounding very close to lifelike while listening to well recorded tracks (before the fuse), to sounding like it's being performed live and in my room (with the M1).  This fuse is freaking legit folks, and I can't stop listening.  All my favorite songs sound better than ever, and I am hearing deeper into the recordings with little nuances and detail much more clearly audible now, of which really adds to the sense of being there.

I have never heard Jeff Buckley's voice sound so hauntingly clean, clear and lifelike as it does now, and it's breathtaking.  I can't wait to hear what this thing can do, with more burn-in!

More to come, but for now it's back to the music. . .


----------



## Thanatosid

Wes S said:


> I am about 15 hours in with the AM M1 fuse, and I am completely blown away with what I am hearing.  It sounds as if I have "pierced the veil", as in going from sounding very close to lifelike while listening to well recorded tracks (before the fuse), to sounding like it's being performed live and in my room (with the M1).  This fuse is freaking legit folks, and I can't stop listening.  All my favorite songs sound better than ever, and I am hearing deeper into the recordings with little nuances and detail much more clearly audible now, of which really adds to the sense of being there.
> 
> I have never heard Jeff Buckley's voice sound so hauntingly clean, clear and lifelike as it does now, and it's breathtaking.  I can't wait to hear what this thing can do, with more burn-in!
> 
> More to come, but for now it's back to the music. . .


I can’t wait to hear the burn-in results here. I’d also be curious to hear your recommendation on which to buy first: M1 fuse or the G73R?

Lastly, does anyone know if the M1 can be used on the Pendant OG?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2022)

Thanatosid said:


> I can’t wait to hear the burn-in results here. I’d also be curious to hear your recommendation on which to buy first: M1 fuse or the G73R?
> 
> Lastly, does anyone know if the M1 can be used on the Pendant OG?


I have another 70 plus hours on the fuse now, and what I am hearing is flat out incredible.  I will share more shortly, but as of right now it definitely gets a big rec from me.  As for the G73R or the M1 first, that is a tough call as they both influence the sound dramatically in a similar way, as in all parts of the sound and then some you did not even think of, or even think were possible improve as well.  So, it really is a tough call, and I started with the tube first and then the fuse, and could clearly hear what both brought to the table (spoiler alert they are a match made in Heaven).  My suggestion would be to buy the G73R first as they are not the easiest to find and are not going to get any easier as more people find out about this tube, and burn that in for a good 100 hours, and then go for the fuse.  I am not 100% sure on the fuse size for the OG, but I would imagine it's the same for the SE.  I would email Justin @ AmpsandSound and ask about the fuse size just to be sure, or you can just pull it out and look at the numbers on it to verify as well.  The fuse is super easy to remove and install.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I didn‘t go with the G73R or the fuse.  I ordered the Less Is More, affectionately known as the LIM, update for my first generation Schiit Yggdrasil.  I have already installed the Unison USB update, which made a huge difference.  This will bring my Yggy up to date.  Oh, and a few weeks ago, I bought a lot of 5, 1951 Ken-Rad/GE 5814’s LOL.  They were to cheap to pass up.  Now I have a backup and a backup for my backup and a backup for that backup and a backup for that backup plus a backup for that backup with 4 more on top of that just in case.  I should be good for a while.  To my hording defense, I do run them in two amps.  I also run them in my Rogue Audio RH5 which takes a pair.  So I really don’t have that many spares, at least that’s what I’m telling myself!


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I didn‘t go with the G73R or the fuse.  I ordered the Less Is More, affectionately known as the LIM, update for my first generation Schiit Yggdrasil.  I have already installed the Unison USB update, which made a huge difference.  This will bring my Yggy up to date.  Oh, and a few weeks ago, I bought a lot of 5, 1951 Ken-Rad/GE 5814’s LOL.  They were to cheap to pass up.  Now I have a backup and a backup for my backup and a backup for that backup and a backup for that backup plus a backup for that backup with 4 more on top of that just in case.  I should be good for a while.  To my hording defense, I do run them in two amps.  I also run them in my Rogue Audio RH5 which takes a pair.  So I really don’t have that many spares, at least that’s what I’m telling myself!


Nice upgrade!  The DAC is such an important part of the chain.  Just throwing this out there, the Audio Magic M1 fuse is insane and worth every cent and then some.  I feel like I am finally hearing the full potential of the Pendant after the swap, and the improvements are startling to say the least.  I really think you would be amazed at what it can do, and I can't recommend this fuse enough.  Words can't describe well enough the improvements I hear with this fuse, and I have never felt so connected and engaged with the artist and their music as I do now.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Well @Wes S , you got me to buy the purple fuse for the Rogue, I will probably get the M1. Money is a little tight right now, so I need to space out my purchases more. I felt the DAC update impacts a couple systems so I went with that first.


----------



## jonathan c

“The DAC is such an important part of the chain”. Indeed!…And like any ‘upstream’ component in the chain, the DC ‘quality’ is paramount for that component to perform at its best. Thus, using Audio Envy power cords, Audio Magic / Synergistic Research fuses only improves ‘upstream’ component _sonic_ performance - _to my ears! _Obviously, to @Wes S ’ ears!


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 27, 2022)

Really liked the SR Purple but was able to exchange it for the Audio Magic M1 (thanks to owner Alfred Kainz of highend-electronics inc..)  Like the M1 better, although you benefit greatly by either.  On my rig (Schiit Yggy, Woo Audio WA2, Senn HD800S) and with the fuse in the WA2, the M1 outperforms the SRP by adding weight/density and a heightened sense of "being there" across the spectrum...with the M1's bass being the most noticeable difference in the comparison.  Vocals close behind.
Then for good measure I joined the sheep and upgraded from the Telefunken ECC801S's to the "Super Telefunken" G73R's.  All I can say is, "Baaaaa !!!"  Total game changer...and I've loved the Tele ECC801S's for a very long time.  Divorce imminent if wifey finds out what I paid for the G73R's
The really great thing is I'm only 50 hours into the M1/G73R changeover.  So it's only gonna get better.


----------



## BudKine

An interview with Justin Weber of Ampsandsound and some information on the LEELOO amplifier which is a continuation of the Pendant SE.


----------



## tholt

BudKine said:


> An interview with Justin Weber of Ampsandsound and some information on the LEELOO amplifier which is a continuation of the Pendant SE.



Cool. Great seeing the oracle behind the curtain talking shop. Anyone know the differences between the Pendant SE and the Leloo? Are there differences? Physically and spec-wise they appear the same, except for binding posts on the Leloo.


----------



## Brayden (Jul 27, 2022)

Any tube combo recommendations for metal under 200$? Thinking about getting the pendant se soon.


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## Wes S (Jul 28, 2022)

tholt said:


> Cool. Great seeing the oracle behind the curtain talking shop. Anyone know the differences between the Pendant SE and the Leloo? Are there differences? Physically and spec-wise they appear the same, except for binding posts on the Leloo.


The Leloo also has a redesigned choke and bigger power supply.  Seems like they just beefed it up a bit for speaker use, and I would imagine they sound quite similar with headphones.


----------



## Mau10 (Jul 28, 2022)

Brayden said:


> Any tube combo recommendations for metal under 200$? Thinking about getting the pendant se soon


Welcome to the Pendant family, In my opinion for your budget, a full set of RFT NOS will do the job. Thats the best set I have found for the money.
- RFT  12au7 extra support rod             $65
- RFT EL84 welded plates                     $100
- RFT EZ81                                            $26.95
TOTAL:                                                   $191.95

The sound of that set in my Pendant is (snappy, tonally balanced, non sibilant with lots of impact)

There are better sets and combinations, nevertheless... to my ears nothing better for $200

Other options are the Baldwins (Sylvania) on sale in the ZMF website and they also have RFT EZ81´s.  I have the green Baldwins and are quite good, but I find the RFT welded plate much better. The sound is not exactly the same, but very similar to my Telefunken EL84´s for 1/3 the price.


----------



## jonathan c

Mau10 said:


> Welcome to the Pendant family, In my opinion for your budget, a full set of RFT NOS will do the job. Thats the best set I have found for the money.
> - RFT  12au7 extra support rod             $65
> - RFT EL84 welded plates                     $100
> - RFT EZ81                                            $26.95
> ...


Great choices !! Not just for Pendant, but for Quicksilver Audio, Woo WA2, WA3, WA6…😄.


----------



## steve468

Mau10 said:


> Welcome to the Pendant family, In my opinion for your budget, a full set of RFT NOS will do the job. Thats the best set I have found for the money.
> - RFT  12au7 extra support rod             $65
> - RFT EL84 welded plates                     $100
> - RFT EZ81                                            $26.95
> ...


Excellent suggestions. I just wanted to add that, for metal, any Russian tubes seem to have a bit more what I call grit. Or maybe it's texture. In any case, they really make guitars crunch, like you can reach and grab the guitar notes.

My favourites for this are from The Tube Store: their Preferred Series 7189 are Russian 6p14p-ev tubes, which are beefier El84s. Paired with a warmer input tube, say a Brimar 6060, makes for the best metal setup I've heard. Period. From any amp at all.


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## Mau10 (Aug 4, 2022)

The sound of the Brimar 6060 is really nice indeed, I just put it in my pendant to bring back to my mind the characteristics of this tube.

I have been following this thread quietly since the beginning of 2021, and I have been buying tubes for my Pendant way before I finally bought it. There are lots of great sounding tubes mentioned here, and even when I had some exposure to other tube amps in the past, the contributions of many of you in this thread, have been very instructive, enjoyable and expensive also!

My current favorite tube set for the pendant is the:
- Mullard EZ81 60s Blackburn (3M labeled)
- Telefunken EL84 60s
- Brimar Footscray F6067T 50s







Other of what I consider my top input tubes used for reference are:
- Mullard 10M 12au7
- Brimar Black plates 12bh7
- Telefunken Ecc82 smooth plates
- CBS 12bh7 black plates D getter

G73-R Red ink is on the way and I couldn't use it for comparison yet.

That's why I would like to start a conversation about those Hidden gems that are still out there at affordable prices, and even when they may not be at the exact same level of the heavyweights, they are still a bang for the buck.

- Amperex 7062 $39 (12aT7 equivalent ): Not really sure of this tube being mentioned before in the thread, so I will write a few lines about it...
This is in the top of my list cause it ticks a lot of boxes of a nice tube. They were only made by Amperex in Holland and USA, so there aren't any other lower quality versions for what I could find. The sound of the 7062 in my system is fast, holographic and punchy. Bass is tight and impactful, Texture of the midrange is superb, providing that classic Amperex warmth.  The top end is detailed and without any glare or harshness. The soundstage is big and kind of 3D, it has the expected imaging of a long plate input tube.
I have been able to try three versions of this tube:
>Holland D-Getter (Pinched waist): Warmer, Holographic, the presentation is more mid forward.
>Holland D-Getter: While still in the warm side, this tube is more neutral.
>USA "O" Getter: A bit less transparent, still very good but I find it less detailed.

There are some caveats when searching for a 7062 for your collection, in contrast to other tall tubes like 12bh7, this tubes are not prone to be noisy, but they tend to be a bit microphonic, it can be normal to a certain point.  Other minor thing is that the ¨burning in¨ process of this tubes require a lot of patience.

- Raytheon 12au7 Black long plates triple mica 50s $49 : This tube is fast, stage presentation is very expansive. The transients of this tube, are on pair of the 10M and the F6067T, bass is tight explosive and, mids are a bit recessed with very good resolution. top end is extended, this beauty can handle a lot of detail. A very good deal for the price.

- RFT 12au7: (previously mentioned)

- Mullard CV 4024 less than $50 : The Classic Mullard sound is not exactly my cup of tea, (deep slower bass, warm mids, treble a bit rolled off)  but this are high quality NOS at a very good price. A good choice for shy bass and bright headphones or systems. This are actually good when looking for warmth without loosing much detail.

- RCA 12au7 Clear Tops $40: Very fast transients. the bass is precise and nimble, mids are liquid and tactile, top end is well extended, this peculiar tube can sound a bit bright in some headphones and systems, but it can bring to life those that need some sparkle. Anyway... one of the best American made tubes.

- Brimar CV 4034 $80: Not as transparent and fast compared to the Footscray F6067T, but very close to it, and very similar in character. This tube starts to lean to the expensive side of the price range but it's worth to be mentioned.

Looking forward for your findings
M


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I’m a fan of the RCA 12au7 clear top. I have a couple. I prefer the early 60’s orange label version to the late 50’s white label.  Of the others, I’ve only tried the RFT’s.  There are a couple different versions and they do not sound the same. I’m sure there’s a post in here where @Wes S compares them.


----------



## robo24

Trying to use a Mullard ECC33 in the 12AU7 socket with an adapter. Can anyone confirm if the 12AU7 socket is 6.3 or 12.6v? Assumed it was 12.6v. Tried an adapter which is 12.6v and it doesn't seem to work, which could just be the adapter. I know ECC33 and 6SN7 family are 6.3v but the adapter is supposed to take care of that. Actually bought this specific tube for my Glenn OTL only to later learn the modifications on mine make the ECC33 not really work on it. Figured I'd at least try to use it with the Pendant to make sure it actually works before I sell it.


----------



## whirlwind

robo24 said:


> Trying to use a Mullard ECC33 in the 12AU7 socket with an adapter. Can anyone confirm if the 12AU7 socket is 6.3 or 12.6v? Assumed it was 12.6v. Tried an adapter which is 12.6v and it doesn't seem to work, which could just be the adapter. I know ECC33 and 6SN7 family are 6.3v but the adapter is supposed to take care of that. Actually bought this specific tube for my Glenn OTL only to later learn the modifications on mine make the ECC33 not really work on it. Figured I'd at least try to use it with the Pendant to make sure it actually works before I sell it.



Why won't the ECC33 work on your Glenn...I think even if you had the 6J5 sockets put in the amp, the ECC33 should work, but not the ECC35.
I had my amp biased for ECC32 so maybe that is why the ECC33 works in my amp.
Maybe check with @L0rdGwyn  about this.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

robo24 said:


> Trying to use a Mullard ECC33 in the 12AU7 socket with an adapter. Can anyone confirm if the 12AU7 socket is 6.3 or 12.6v? Assumed it was 12.6v. Tried an adapter which is 12.6v and it doesn't seem to work, which could just be the adapter. I know ECC33 and 6SN7 family are 6.3v but the adapter is supposed to take care of that. Actually bought this specific tube for my Glenn OTL only to later learn the modifications on mine make the ECC33 not really work on it. Figured I'd at least try to use it with the Pendant to make sure it actually works before I sell it.





whirlwind said:


> Why won't the ECC33 work on your Glenn...I think even if you had the 6J5 sockets put in the amp, the ECC33 should work, but not the ECC35.
> I had my amp biased for ECC32 so maybe that is why the ECC33 works in my amp.
> Maybe check with @L0rdGwyn  about this.



Have you tried the ECC33 in the GOTL @robo24 ?  It should work, like @whirlwind said, it's the ECC35 that will not bias correctly.


----------



## robo24

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have you tried the ECC33 in the GOTL @robo24 ?  It should work, like @whirlwind said, it's the ECC35 that will not bias correctly.


I did and it was in a PM that you mentioned ECC32 and 33 might not bias correctly. I get some sound but it's distorted and has very low volume. The 5692 tube did work as you said it would. Mine was modified so the 6SL7 won't work either but would work but not ideally on an unmodified one. 

I will ask Justin, as I'm sure he'd know if the adapter for the Pendant should be 12 or 6v type.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

robo24 said:


> I did and it was in a PM that you mentioned ECC32 and 33 might not bias correctly. I get some sound but it's distorted and has very low volume. The 5692 tube did work as you said it would. Mine was modified so the 6SL7 won't work either but would work but not ideally on an unmodified one.
> 
> I will ask Justin, as I'm sure he'd know if the adapter for the Pendant should be 12 or 6v type.



My mistake, sorry I had forgotten you tried ECC33 as well.  Had I known these tubes would be used in the future, I could have chosen a bias point that would make them all functional.  

Most likely the adapter for the pendant should be 6V, EL84 is a 6V tube, it would be very unusual to use a separate 12V heater winding in an amp that already has a 6V winding available.


----------



## robo24 (Aug 11, 2022)

L0rdGwyn said:


> My mistake, sorry I had forgotten you tried ECC33 as well.  Had I known these tubes would be used in the future, I could have chosen a bias point that would make them all functional.
> 
> Most likely the adapter for the pendant should be 6V, EL84 is a 6V tube, it would be very unusual to use a separate 12V heater winding in an amp that already has a 6V winding available.


No worries, I had just been slowly going through the huge thread and buying some of the recommended tubes so got that one recently thinking it would be fine. Thanks for that answer on the Pendant. The adapter I got is a 12.6v one so that would explain the problem. A 6.3 is on the way so should work.

UPDATE: Justin confirmed it's 12.6v


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Bringing up system synergy…. I installed the Less is More boards in my Yggy (A1).  Paired with the Pendant SE and ZMF Atrium. Wow!!  I’m absolutely blown away. Switch out the Atrium for my blackwood VC and it’s nice, but can’t hang with the Atrium.  If I switch from the Pendant to the Rogue Audio RH5, it’s a closer match with the two headphones. Yggy LIM, Pendant SE, Atrium is my heaven right now. Hard not to tap my foot and staying up way to late unable to shut it down for the night!


----------



## tholt

If anyone is interested, I'm selling a small stash of 12A-7 input tubes, including a G73R
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/12a-7-tubes-tele-g73r-brimar-tung-sol.31074/


----------



## Mau10

If I just didn't order two weeks ago my G73-R... that's a sweet deal for only $295. What is your reason for selling?


----------



## tholt

73R went quick, as expected. Others still available (for far less money!) and still great input tubes, if interested. The Brimar and the Tung Sol are particularly great with the Pendant. 


Mau10 said:


> If I just didn't order two weeks ago my G73-R... that's a sweet deal for only $295. What is your reason for selling?


I have a lot of input tubes, and realized that some fit my particular genres better than others. I could have _easily_ lived with the 73R, it's flat out an amazing tube. But for my tastes, especially with electronic music, I preferred tubes that were a bit more visceral.


----------



## Mau10

tholt said:


> 73R went quick, as expected. Others still available (for far less money!) and still great input tubes, if interested. The Brimar and the Tung Sol are particularly great with the Pendant.
> 
> I have a lot of input tubes, and realized that some fit my particular genres better than others. I could have _easily_ lived with the 73R, it's flat out an amazing tube. But for my tastes, especially with electronic music, I preferred tubes that were a bit more visceral


That G73-R didn’t even last one day on sale! 👍

What is your choice for a more visceral tube?


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## Wes S (Aug 16, 2022)

Mau10 said:


> That G73-R didn’t even last one day on sale! 👍
> 
> What is your choice for a more visceral tube?


I am curious as well, as my G73R is one of the most visceral driver tubes I have heard in the Pendant SE.  Perhaps there really is multiple versions of the G73R or maybe we just have different ideas on visceral?


----------



## tholt

Wes S said:


> Mau10 said:
> 
> 
> > That G73-R didn’t even last one day on sale! 👍
> ...


The 73R has good impact. For me, esp on hard driving alt/metal/prog rock or beat heavy electronic, I slightly preferred tubes with a bit more bite on leading edges like the Hytron 5814 and a couple others. It could also be that they're more lit on top. There were other things as well. The 73R is awesome when it comes to being wholly natural sounding; voices were as real as I've heard and detail was effortless. As I mentioned, I could've easily lived with it.


----------



## Wes S

tholt said:


> The 73R has good impact. For me, esp on hard driving alt/metal/prog rock or beat heavy electronic, I slightly preferred tubes with a bit more bite on leading edges like the Hytron 5814 and a couple others. It could also be that they're more lit on top. There were other things as well. The 73R is awesome when it comes to being wholly natural sounding; voices were as real as I've heard and detail was effortless. As I mentioned, I could've easily lived with it.


Thanks for sharing.  Just goes to show we all have different preferences, and the G73R is multiple levels and then some better than the Hytron 5814 in all areas for me.  I was a big fan of the 5814 (it was my #1 for a while) until I discovered what the G73R could do.  

Happy Listening.


----------



## tholt

Wes S said:


> Thanks for sharing. Just goes to show we all have different preferences, and the G73R is multiple levels and then some better than the Hytron 5814 in all areas for me. I was a big fan of the 5814 (it was my #1 for a while) until I discovered what the G73R could do.


Your love for this tube is well known, my friend. What can I say? All our ears are different.



Wes S said:


> Happy Listening.


Of course!


----------



## hung031086

I just bought a Pendant SE and it will deliver to my on Thursday. I'm very new to this one. I'm looking for tube replacements over the stock ones for a reasonable price. Can someone help me with that ?


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## Mau10 (Aug 20, 2022)

hung031086 said:


> I just bought a Pendant SE and it will deliver to my on Thursday. I'm very new to this one. I'm looking for tube replacements over the stock ones for a reasonable price. Can someone help me with that ?


Congratulations! In the previous page of this thread (106 ) I posted some of the best tubes for the money that I have tested in my pendant. in page (105) a full NOS tube set for the pendant under $200 was discussed.
I am sure that you will find this thread very instructive, full of good tips from experienced pendant users and tube connoisseurs.
 Enjoy!


----------



## robo24

hung031086 said:


> I just bought a Pendant SE and it will deliver to my on Thursday. I'm very new to this one. I'm looking for tube replacements over the stock ones for a reasonable price. Can someone help me with that ?


Take a look at Wes S's comments starting around June 2021. He's recommended many and I've enjoyed all the ones I bought that he'd suggested. Personally my favorites have been the various Brimar especially Brimar Footscray tubes for the 12AU7 socket and the various RFT ones (cheaper) are also excellent.


----------



## Hiker816

Before I sold my Pendant (to you, @hung031086!), I had the following tubes, based on Wes's recommendations, which I thought were great:

12at7 CV455 KB/FB Brimar Triple MICA 1956 
RFT EZ81
RFT ECC81 / 12at7
Tungsram EL84 / 6BQ5 , late 50s, foil disc getter


----------



## tholt

Hiker816 said:


> Before I sold my Pendant (to you, @hung031086!), I had the following tubes, based on Wes's recommendations, which I thought were great:
> 
> 12at7 CV455 KB/FB Brimar Triple MICA 1956
> RFT EZ81
> ...


Congrats on the sale (and purchase from the new owner)! Your patience was finally rewarded. I wondered why your amp didn't get snapped up for so long but that seems to be the pattern with A&S amps. Not sure why, build quality is excellent as are sonics. I personally love the old school look of his amps, one of the first things that captured my attention. The new owner will hopefully enjoy it quite a bit. The Pendant IMO is a bit of a sweet spot in many areas: relatively moderate price, plenty of power, tubes not overly expensive, excellent sonics and very receptive to rolling, compact footprint, quality build — it's just a gem of an amp. 



hung031086 said:


> I just bought a Pendant SE and it will deliver to my on Thursday. I'm very new to this one. I'm looking for tube replacements over the stock ones for a reasonable price. Can someone help me with that ?



As others have mentioned: cruise this thread, there are lots of great tubes mentioned, many are reasonably priced. Some might be harder to find, but it's all part of the tube game  Have fun and keep us posted.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 22, 2022)

Just throwing this out there for anyone looking to buy a Pendant SE or any current owners as well. . .I am going to be selling my Pendant SE as I have upgraded amps, and I will be listing the amp with some tubes very soon.  I am also going to be listing separately the Audio Magic M1 fuse and Telefunken G73R.  So, if anyone is looking for a G73R hit me up, I am going to be listing it for $300 (of which I paid $500).  Also, the Audio Magic M1 fuse I am going to sell for $200 (of which I paid $300).  Both the fuse and G73R have basically just been burned-in with about 200-250 hours each, and are ready for someone else to enjoy.   Both of these items are game changers in the Pendant, and you won't find a better price anywhere.  I absolutely love my Pendant SE to death, and I have enjoyed my time with it immensely, but I have moved on to the Cayin HA300mk2, and it's time for someone else to get as much joy from the Pendant as I have.

Cheers!


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> Just throwing this out there for anyone looking to buy a Pendant SE or any current owners as well. . .I am going to be selling my Pendant SE as I have upgraded amps, and I will be listing the amp with some tubes very soon.  I am also going to be listing separately the Audio Magic M1 fuse and Telefunken G73R.  So, if anyone is looking for a G73R hit me up, I am going to be listing it for $300 (of which I paid $500).  Also, the Audio Magic M1 fuse I am going to sell for $200 (of which I paid $300).  Both the fuse and G73R have basically just been burned-in with about 200-250 hours each, and are ready for someone else to enjoy.   Both of these items are game changers in the Pendant, and you won't find a better price anywhere.  I absolutely love my Pendant SE to death, and I have enjoyed my time with it immensely, but I have moved on to the Cayin HA300mk2, and it's time for someone else to get as much joy from the Pendant as I have.
> 
> Cheers!


Just checking back in to say the G73R has been sold, and the Audio Magic M1 fuse is still available.   I wanted to give my buddies in this thread first shot at these, and will be listing the fuse in a few days.  The AM M1 fuse is real game changer in the Pendant folks, and I am pricing it to sell ($195 shipped within US).

Happy Listening!


----------



## DenverW

tholt said:


> Your love for this tube is well known, my friend. What can I say? All our ears are different.
> 
> 
> Of course!


Anytime I find a piece of gear that I enjoy more than a different, more expensive piece of gear I'm especially pleased.  I wish it would happen more to be honest!


----------



## jonathan c

tholt said:


> Your love for this tube is well known, my friend. What can I say? All our ears are different.


How many do you have…🤔?🤣…


----------



## BudKine

@Wes S Thank you for all of the tube rolling experiences you’ve shared with us on this thread. I’ve found your suggestions and recommendations to be fun and enlightening. They have really helped me to hear a multitude of characteristics that can be gleaned from this great little amplifier and to contour and shape the sounds that I seek. And, you’re detailed photographs of tubes and your descriptions of specific physical elements have often helped me to find the correct tubes amongst the sea of variations.

Have fun with your new amplifier, the Cayin HA300mk2. Oh, what a great looking amp! It looks both savory and mouthwatering!

Peace, brother.


----------



## tholt

DenverW said:


> Anytime I find a piece of gear that I enjoy more than a different, more expensive piece of gear I'm especially pleased.  I wish it would happen more to be honest!


I revisited the Hytron 5814 after I wrote that (I was using a different input tube at the time, they're constantly rotating) and FWIW, my memory of that tube was better than when I revisited it. It seemed a bit sizzly the last listen, the word 'hashy' kept coming to mind. So maybe that wasn't the best example. Weird how tube impressions can change as your listening evolves. To Wes S' point, I wonder if some G73R tubes sound different from one another. Would be interesting to compare a couple at least. 

The law of diminishing returns kicks in a lot for me, though usually the more expensive piece sounds better. Tubes might be a different animal, though. I just bought a Mullard 10M Master Series 12AT7 for a good price. I only did a small amount of research on this line, but evidently Mullard made a Master Series of tubes that seems a bit like the G73R in terms of build quality and goals. My interest was piqued when I saw a Master Series 12AU7 on the tubemonger going for $300. Hopefully it will be a good find.


----------



## DenverW

tholt said:


> I revisited the Hytron 5814 after I wrote that (I was using a different input tube at the time, they're constantly rotating) and FWIW, my memory of that tube was better than when I revisited it. It seemed a bit sizzly the last listen, the word 'hashy' kept coming to mind. So maybe that wasn't the best example. Weird how tube impressions can change as your listening evolves. To Wes S' point, I wonder if some G73R tubes sound different from one another. Would be interesting to compare a couple at least.
> 
> The law of diminishing returns kicks in a lot for me, though usually the more expensive piece sounds better. Tubes might be a different animal, though. I just bought a Mullard 10M Master Series 12AT7 for a good price. I only did a small amount of research on this line, but evidently Mullard made a Master Series of tubes that seems a bit like the G73R in terms of build quality and goals. My interest was piqued when I saw a Master Series 12AU7 on the tubemonger going for $300. Hopefully it will be a good find.


I have that tube, and like it quite a bit.  I was lucky enough to find one for sale where the seller didn't know that it was.  Instead of 10M he listed it as "tom" .


----------



## tholt

DenverW said:


> I have that tube, and like it quite a bit.  I was lucky enough to find one for sale where the seller didn't know that it was.  Instead of 10M he listed it as "tom" .


Lol! That's hilarious. We'll see. At worst it will hopefully just be a decent Mullard


----------



## Wes S

BudKine said:


> @Wes S Thank you for all of the tube rolling experiences you’ve shared with us on this thread. I’ve found your suggestions and recommendations to be fun and enlightening. They have really helped me to hear a multitude of characteristics that can be gleaned from this great little amplifier and to contour and shape the sounds that I seek. And, you’re detailed photographs of tubes and your descriptions of specific physical elements have often helped me to find the correct tubes amongst the sea of variations.
> 
> Have fun with your new amplifier, the Cayin HA300mk2. Oh, what a great looking amp! It looks both savory and mouthwatering!
> 
> Peace, brother.


Thanks for the kind words brother!  It's been an absolute blast and my pleasure sharing all my tube rolling adventures with you all, and I am glad they have been helpful.  I feel like we are all in this together, and I have made a bunch of friends in this thread over the past year and have really enjoyed all the PM's and conversations we have had.  The Pendant SE is an amazing amp that will always have a special place in my heart, and it really is a fun one that can keep a tube roller content that's for sure.

Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening to you my friend!


----------



## tholt

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the kind words brother!  It's been an absolute blast and my pleasure sharing all my tube rolling adventures with you all, and I am glad they have been helpful.  I feel like we are all in this together, and I have made a bunch of friends in this thread over the past year and have really enjoyed all the PM's and conversations we have had.  The Pendant SE is an amazing amp that will always have a special place in my heart, and it really is a fun one that can keep a tube roller content that's for sure.
> 
> Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening to you my friend!


You've been a knowledgable and selfless resource, hopefully not the last we'll converse! Have fun with the new amp.


----------



## robo24

I was the one who bought both the G73R & M-1 fuse from Wes. My Pendant SE has gotten much less use since I bought a Glenn OTL several months ago because it's just on another level, especially in terms of body to the music. The G73R alone really brought it to about the same level of enjoyment for me. I started with the Atrium, which has to my ears the best, most weighty bass of the ZMF lineup and was really blown away that the bass became even more prominent but without having a negative impact on anything else. He's used the word visceral and I think that's how I'd describe it too.

Whether it's worth it or not is up to you, but for me it was immediately obvious that this was something special, and I'd been using the $200 Brimar Yellow T recently which is no slouch and one I prefer over all the other Brimars which have been recommended on this thread. 

As for the fuse, I was _very_ skeptical and when I first read about fuse rolling I thought it was ridiculous and there was no way I was ever going to bother with that. I'm perfectly happy to share when I hear no difference and don't think something is worth it, as I did with the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 using AES vs. USB on my DAC. I actually _wanted_ to hear no difference with the fuse so I could just resell it. 

Today I've been using the Arya v2 on the low impedence output, which is a very detailed and airy headphone and thought it would be a good one for evaluating the fuse roll. It's also one which needs a pretty powerful amp. Used the 24/96 version of Florence & the Machine's King at around 2:35 where it goes from very quiet, has a bass rumble and then very loudly comes in the vocal of "Ho-oh-oh-oh" which is repeated. 

The vocals with the stock fuse get a little harsh. I started with the M1 and noticed that going to the stock one, and repeated the swap a few times, thinking I was probably just fooling myself. Nope, the harshness was reduced significantly and the bass just has a very strong rumble before the vocals kick in with the M1, which is not anywhere near as present with the stock one. I can't see giving this up and going back to stock even if it's cost me nearly $200.

As to whether the $500 would be better spent on just a more expensive amp I don't know, but I wasn't in the market for another of different tube amp anyway. So if you're looking to get the most out of your Pendant, these are good options, with the tube having more of an impact than the fuse to my ears, but both pretty noticeable only in positive ways. 

I'll definitely be selling off some of my other 12AU/AT/AX7 tubes now and the Pendant is already getting much more use.


----------



## Wes S

robo24 said:


> I was the one who bought both the G73R & M-1 fuse from Wes. My Pendant SE has gotten much less use since I bought a Glenn OTL several months ago because it's just on another level, especially in terms of body to the music. The G73R alone really brought it to about the same level of enjoyment for me. I started with the Atrium, which has to my ears the best, most weighty bass of the ZMF lineup and was really blown away that the bass became even more prominent but without having a negative impact on anything else. He's used the word visceral and I think that's how I'd describe it too.
> 
> Whether it's worth it or not is up to you, but for me it was immediately obvious that this was something special, and I'd been using the $200 Brimar Yellow T recently which is no slouch and one I prefer over all the other Brimars which have been recommended on this thread.
> 
> ...


Yeah buddy, that's what I have been talking about right there.  Happy Listening!


----------



## Astral Abyss

robo24 said:


> I was the one who bought both the G73R & M-1 fuse from Wes. My Pendant SE has gotten much less use since I bought a Glenn OTL several months ago because it's just on another level, especially in terms of body to the music. The G73R alone really brought it to about the same level of enjoyment for me. I started with the Atrium, which has to my ears the best, most weighty bass of the ZMF lineup and was really blown away that the bass became even more prominent but without having a negative impact on anything else. He's used the word visceral and I think that's how I'd describe it too.
> 
> Whether it's worth it or not is up to you, but for me it was immediately obvious that this was something special, and I'd been using the $200 Brimar Yellow T recently which is no slouch and one I prefer over all the other Brimars which have been recommended on this thread.
> 
> ...


What's the rating for the fuse I'd need to get?  I'm pretty much clueless about that.


----------



## tholt

Astral Abyss said:


> What's the rating for the fuse I'd need to get?  I'm pretty much clueless about that.


Stock is 750ma I believe. People here have used 800ma. Slow blow


----------



## cinisi

So probably one of the few in this thread but.. At the moment it seems I am not a fan of the Pendant sound. I've owned the Pendant OG for a few months now and listen to it on a daily basis with an Ares II feeding it, and a pair of ironwood VC being powered by it.

I understand that the amp was meant as a technical feat to explicitly not sound much like your typical tube amp. With added bonus that the tubes used are not unicorns, so tube rolling can be a fun hobby. I also know the Pendant isn't OTL, but I kinda feel like I'm missing some bass oomph right now with my setup. I first noticed this when going from a modded DV336SE to an SW51+, but here the switch from a Soncoz dac to the AresII made a big improvement on the sound in terms of warmth.

Is there anything I can do in terms of tube rolling, to get a more OTL feel from this amp? I really enjoy its looks, and I don't HATE the sound.. its just that most of the music I listen to most when working has quite some bass in it, and I'd like some more rumble with that.

If nothing really helps, I'd probably have to look for a replacement amp in the same price bracket, but I really want this amp to work for me 

Tips are welcome. I'd look into my current tubes but in the evening, my home office is transformed into a bedroom for our 4-month-old baby.


----------



## Mau10 (Sep 5, 2022)

cinisi said:


> So probably one of the few in this thread but.. At the moment it seems I am not a fan of the Pendant sound. I've owned the Pendant OG for a few months now and listen to it on a daily basis with an Ares II feeding it, and a pair of ironwood VC being powered by it.
> 
> I understand that the amp was meant as a technical feat to explicitly not sound much like your typical tube amp. With added bonus that the tubes used are not unicorns, so tube rolling can be a fun hobby. I also know the Pendant isn't OTL, but I kinda feel like I'm missing some bass oomph right now with my setup. I first noticed this when going from a modded DV336SE to an SW51+, but here the switch from a Soncoz dac to the AresII made a big improvement on the sound in terms of warmth.
> 
> ...


Which tubes have you tried in your pendant? In my experience with the Pendant, tube rolling can really change the behavior of tone, transients and dinamics. Obviously the pendant will always have a character and a "sound signature" but it's very versatile at the same time. I've had some exposure to OTL and that bass rumble, immediacy and punch you are looking for, can be related to the choice of Rectifier tube. (At least it can be a good starting point). If your rectifier is weak, it will impact all the dynamics of the amp. for sure your choice of input and power tubes will work in chain for the final result. Tube amps with output transformers usually can texture and sustain bass notes better than an OTL.


----------



## steve468

cinisi said:


> So probably one of the few in this thread but.. At the moment it seems I am not a fan of the Pendant sound. I've owned the Pendant OG for a few months now and listen to it on a daily basis with an Ares II feeding it, and a pair of ironwood VC being powered by it.
> 
> I understand that the amp was meant as a technical feat to explicitly not sound much like your typical tube amp. With added bonus that the tubes used are not unicorns, so tube rolling can be a fun hobby. I also know the Pendant isn't OTL, but I kinda feel like I'm missing some bass oomph right now with my setup. I first noticed this when going from a modded DV336SE to an SW51+, but here the switch from a Soncoz dac to the AresII made a big improvement on the sound in terms of warmth.
> 
> ...



A good tube to bring out sub-bass is the Brimar 6060 - a kind of warm tube but very well extended on both ends of the spectrum. Telefunken EL84s make a great match if tight, impactful bass is what you want. A more bloomy option is Mullard EL84s and Ken-Rad pewter plates - the older the better (50's Mullards, 40's Ken-Rads). The best rectifier I've heard is a RFT foil getter, but I haven't heard them all.

Also, your VC's pads can make a difference. Universe solid lambskin are a bit punchier and warmer than the stock Auteurs, if that's what you're using. 

In my experience, though, you'll never get bass that overpowers everything else from the Pendant. It stays pretty neutral even with bassy tubes. What you CAN get is better quality bass (and a bit more of it). Just my opinion, others may think differently.


----------



## Mau10 (Sep 5, 2022)

steve468 said:


> A good tube to bring out sub-bass is the Brimar 6060 - a kind of warm tube but very well extended on both ends of the spectrum. Telefunken EL84s make a great match if tight, impactful bass is what you want. A more bloomy option is Mullard EL84s and Ken-Rad pewter plates - the older the better (50's Mullards, 40's Ken-Rads). The best rectifier I've heard is a RFT foil getter, but I haven't heard them all.
> 
> Also, your VC's pads can make a difference. Universe solid lambskin are a bit punchier and warmer than the stock Auteurs, if that's what you're using.
> 
> In my experience, though, you'll never get bass that overpowers everything else from the Pendant. It stays pretty neutral even with bassy tubes. What you CAN get is better quality bass (and a bit more of it). Just my opinion, others may think differently.


Good point @steve468, the bass of the Pendant is not overwhelming. I have used some of the tubes that you describe with good results, finding the Telefunken EL84 my favorite power tubes for transparency, texture and impact. About input tubes, Mullard CV2024 can be a good choice too when looking for affordable quality NOS with nice warmth, impact and dynamics. but the Brimar 6060 and F6067T have that sub bass magic that verites are able to perform.


----------



## robo24

cinisi said:


> So probably one of the few in this thread but.. At the moment it seems I am not a fan of the Pendant sound. I've owned the Pendant OG for a few months now and listen to it on a daily basis with an Ares II feeding it, and a pair of ironwood VC being powered by it.
> 
> I understand that the amp was meant as a technical feat to explicitly not sound much like your typical tube amp. With added bonus that the tubes used are not unicorns, so tube rolling can be a fun hobby. I also know the Pendant isn't OTL, but I kinda feel like I'm missing some bass oomph right now with my setup. I first noticed this when going from a modded DV336SE to an SW51+, but here the switch from a Soncoz dac to the AresII made a big improvement on the sound in terms of warmth.
> 
> ...


Telefunken G73R for bass, along with Amperex EL84 D getters.
I found the Ares quite lacking in details compared to other DACs including other R2Rs but don't recall the bass specifically. Staging was much worse than the Soekris 1421 I had at the same time. Maybe Eikon pads for more bass?


----------



## cinisi

I appreciate the feedback guys, will definitely look into the tubes you all mentioned. Minus the g73r probably because of the price, and minus the F6067T because that van almost not be found if I'm correct 

About pad swap, I'm pretty sure I'm on universe solids now. They packed more than enough punch with the darkvoice 336se I had, so I doubt that the pads are an issue. But will check for a pair of eikon pads if I can find them


----------



## Mau10 (Sep 5, 2022)

cinisi said:


> I appreciate the feedback guys, will definitely look into the tubes you all mentioned. Minus the g73r probably because of the price, and minus the F6067T because that van almost not be found if I'm correct
> 
> About pad swap, I'm pretty sure I'm on universe solids now. They packed more than enough punch with the darkvoice 336se I had, so I doubt that the pads are an issue. But will check for a pair of eikon pads if I can find them


There are various American tubes with impact and warmth at good prices too. Sylvanias and GE's by example, can deliver robust bass and good overall performance depending on your taste. Always try to aim for "black plates" and for input tubes look them to be "long plates" too. Those are usually warmer and free of any glare.

Hoping that can be useful to you and other new users, I leave this index of pendant compatible tubes, taken from many of the previous posts of experienced pendant users in this thread. A couple of tubes in this list are just the same tube type with a different nomenclature.

*Pendant Compatible Tubes:*

INPUT:

12au7
12at7
12ax7
12bh7
Ecc81
Ecc82
Ecc83
6201
6060
6189
F6067T
ECC99
7316
7728
7736
5751
5814A
5755
CV4003
CV4033
Cv4034
CV4024
CV491
5965
5963
6829
6414
E80cc
E180cc
7062
6072
G73-R
POWER:

EL84
E84L
7189
6p14p
6bq5
N709
6p15
CV2975
RECTIFIER:

EZ81
6CA4
UU12
U709
CV5072
Guys please let me know if this list is missing a compatible tube or if one of the listed tubes is not recommended to be used in the Pendant.

* EDIT //6189//ECC81,2,3// added. Thank you @robo24 , @tholt


----------



## robo24

Mau10 said:


> There are various American tubes with impact and warmth at good prices too. Sylvanias and GE's by example, can deliver robust bass and good overall performance depending on your taste. Always try to aim for "black plates" and for input tubes look them to be "long plates" too. Those are usually warmer and free of any glare.
> 
> Hoping that can be useful to you and other new users, I leave this index of pendant compatible tubes, taken from many of the previous posts of experienced pendant users in this thread. A couple of tubes in this list are just the same tube type with a different nomenclature.
> 
> ...


ECC81, 82, & 83 for input


----------



## tholt

Mau10 said:


> There are various American tubes with impact and warmth at good prices too. Sylvanias and GE's by example, can deliver robust bass and good overall performance depending on your taste. Always try to aim for "black plates" and for input tubes look them to be "long plates" too. Those are usually warmer and free of any glare.
> 
> Hoping that can be useful to you and other new users, I leave this index of pendant compatible tubes, taken from many of the previous posts of experienced pendant users in this thread. A couple of tubes in this list are just the same tube type with a different nomenclature.
> 
> ...


Awesome post, thanks! 6189 can also be used for input (12AU7 variant)


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Anyone ever try a 12az7 in the Pendant?


----------



## tholt

^ Along those lines, any other rectifiers possible beside EZ81 types? I reached out to Justin but he's probably busy.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 19, 2022)

Speaking of rectifiers. . . I just listed 3 G.E.C. U709 tubes in the classifieds.  The U709 is one of the best rectifiers possible for the Pendant, and is in a league of it's own when it comes to combining warmth/punch down low, and detailed mids, and air and extension up top.  You won't find a better price on this amazing sounding super rare tube. . .

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> Speaking of rectifiers. . . I just listed 3 G.E.C. U709 tubes in the classifieds.  The U709 is one of the best rectifiers possible for the Pendant, and is in a league of it's own when it comes to combining warmth/punch down low, and detailed mids, and air and extension up top.  You won't find a better price on this amazing sounding super rare tube. . .
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wes


I messaged you in the listing


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I missed out on the G73r. I wasn’t missing out on the U709 too!


----------



## Ufanco

Trying out these 12bh7 and trying to find some info on them. Anyone seen this kind of markings 12bh7?


----------



## Wes S

Ufanco said:


> Trying out these 12bh7 and trying to find some info on them. Anyone seen this kind of markings 12bh7?


Those look like Westinghouse branded tubes to me.


----------



## Ufanco

Wes S said:


> Those look like Westinghouse branded tubes to me.


Thanks wasn't sure if real westinghouse or rebranded rca. They aren't bad sounding and i’m a sucker for oddball looking 12bh7.
 Plus they have sorta a Halloween theme look to them.


----------



## robo24

Whitling down my tube collection I've used with the Pendant SE for any interested. About 10 sets (12AU7 family single or EL84 pairs). $200 shipped for all of them (preferred) or buy separately. Some Brimars, Mullards, Sylvania JHS, etc. Listed in the classifieds now.


----------



## 8bitmark

Could anyone tell me the correct fuse size for the pendant SE? Thinking about ordering the M1.


----------



## DivinesGaming

Anyone know why ZMFs website isn't selling Pendants anymore?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Zach stopped selling them months ago.  I don't believe the exact reason was ever really explained.  It is now being sold over on headphones.com under the original name of Leeloo.  Now it only comes in black and has speaker taps.


----------



## DivinesGaming

4LoveOfSound said:


> Zach stopped selling them months ago.  I don't believe the exact reason was ever really explained.  It is now being sold over on headphones.com under the original name of Leeloo.  Now it only comes in black and has speaker taps.


Heard back from Support on the subject:

"Thanks for being a ZMF owner.

The Pendant was a great amp. Us discontinuing it has nothing to do with the performance of the amp. I believe ampsandsound makes a similar amp now called the LeeLoo.

The reasoning behind discontinuing the amp was more due to both ZMF, and Ampsandsound growing and expanding at a rate where continuing the project together was no longer convenient for either party. Ampsandsound is a great company. The owner Justin is a great guy who makes some fantastic amps. I would recommend contacting him for more info and recommendations on what may be the best fit for you out of his line up and offerings."


----------



## DivinesGaming

Anyone know a good way to tell a first edition Pendant apart from a Second Edition, just based off of looks alone?


----------



## Mau10 (Oct 15, 2022)

DivinesGaming said:


> Anyone know a good way to tell a first edition Pendant apart from a Second Edition, just based off of looks alone?


I have the second edition SE, and it has only one stereo RCA input. I've noticed that earlier versions have 2 and a selector switch.

This is an earlier version.





This is my Pendant SE, one of the last Pendants produced.


----------



## DivinesGaming (Oct 15, 2022)

Mau10 said:


> I have the second edition SE, and it has only one stereo RCA input. I've noticed that earlier versions have 2 and a selector switch.This is an earlier version.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my Pendant SE, one of the last Pendants produced.


Nice eye! Also looks like the newest ones have the ZMF Logo printed atop the input jacks, are more likely to be labeled on top of the tubes rather than below them, and seem to have black hardware on the transformers. (maybe not all the OG have silver hardware but some do) as seen here in the headphones.com review would be an OG:


----------



## Mau10

DivinesGaming said:


> Nice eye! Also looks like the newest ones have the ZMF Logo printed atop the input jacks, are more likely to be labeled on top of the tubes rather than below them, and seem to have black hardware on the transformers. (maybe not all the OG have silver hardware but some do) as seen here in the headphones.com review would be an OG:


True!


----------



## Wes S

Anyone looking for some EL84's for their Pendant?  I have a few killer pairs of Tungsram Welded Plate Foil Disc Getters and a pair of Welded Plate Foil O Getters for sale in the classifieds.  These are as good as it gets.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

There’s a Walnut burl Pendant SE for sale in the classifieds for $1999.  It’s a few pages in.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 18, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> There’s a Walnut burl Pendant SE for sale in the classifieds for $1999.  It’s a few


I listed my Pendant SE for $1650, and it's Walnut Burl and in prefect condition with an upgraded NOS tube set too.  If anyone is interested in an even better deal hit me up.  The listing has been posted this morning.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> I listed my Pendant SE for $1650, and it's Walnut Burl and in prefect condition with an upgraded NOS tube set too.  If anyone is interested in an even better deal hit me up.  The listing has been posted this morning.


Great deal for someone!  A new Leeloo goes for $2899


----------



## billerb1

Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
PM me.


----------



## BudKine

billerb1 said:


> Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
> PM me.


How are you liking the G73R? And how would you compare it to the ECC801S?


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 24, 2022)

BudKine said:


> How are you liking the G73R? And how would you compare it to the ECC801S?


I've travelled up the Telefunken chain on my Holy Grail search...from the E88CC to the E188CC to the ECC801S and then finally the G73R on my Woo WA2.  The progression from the E88CC through the ECC801S kept the house Telefunken sound (pure, transparent and detailed...with increased timbre and overall body with each tube upgrade).  I absolutely loved the ECC801S on my headphone rig.  The G73R is an entirely different animal.  Handles complex musical passages effortlessly...like the G73R's don't even break a sweat.  It's almost like they slow the music down for your inspection.  Soundstage is even more layered and nuanced...and the ECC801S's are incredibly nuanced on their own.  Timbre on the G73R is scary it's so "real".  Instruments sound "meatier", "bigger"...like life-size.  Vocals are hauntingly clear and intimate.  Spatial clues, like the reverb in a concert hall for instance, truly lets you feel like you're there.  Can't imagine a tube being better for what I look for.  Unfortunately they are, as you all know, incredibly hard to find and crazy expensive when/if you do.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I know what you're talking about.  When I had my WA2 I was running some Valvo CCa yellow labels.  Stunningly realistic sound.  I got em ages ago when they were still available for a decent price.  I kind of miss it.  Hard to find anything that compares.


----------



## ckhirnigs113 (Oct 24, 2022)

I’m no Pendant owner, but I do a have a pretty nice Quicksilver that uses the same tube types. I recently bought two awesome EL84 pairs from @Wes S to try out in my amp. I got a pair of his Tungsram welded plate O getters and a pair of his Funkwerk Erfurt welded plate foil disc getters.

I compared them in my setup and ended up preferring the more mid-centric Tungsrams over the more balanced and extended Funkwerks. I can see why Wes liked both of these though.

Long story short, I’d like to pick up a back-up pair of Tungsrams. I’m really only interested in the welded plate foil O getter variety though. I’m open to trading my pair of Funkwerks for the Tungsrams, but I would also be happy to buy a pair from someone. @robo24 recommended this thread to find all the EL84 folks, so here I am! Just shoot me a PM if you might be interested.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I’m no Pendant owner, but I do a have a pretty nice Quicksilver that uses the same tube types. I recently bought two awesome EL84 pairs from @Wes S to try out in my amp. I got a pair of his Tungsram welded plate O getters and a pair of his Funkwerk Erfurt welded plate foil disc getters.
> 
> I compared them in my setup and ended up preferring the more mid-centric Tungsrams over the more balanced and extended Funkwerks. I can see why Wes liked both of these though.
> 
> Long story short, I’d like to pick up a back-up pair of Tungsrams. I’m really only interested in the welded plate foil O getter variety though. I’m open to trading my pair of Funkwerks for the Tungsrams, but I would also be happy to buy a pair from someone. @robo24 recommended this thread to find all the EL84 folks, so here I am! Just shoot me a PM if you might be interested.


Sorry, you aren't getting either of the 2 pair of Tungsram foil "O" getters I got from @Wes S !  I bought 2 sets specifically to avoid the situation you're in now!  Killer EL84's.  Good luck in your search.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Once you hear them you get greedy for a backup pair!


----------



## robo24

Anyone ever try the Pendant with any version of the Abyss 1266? Just wondering especially if it's powerful enough.


----------



## shwnwllms

robo24 said:


> Anyone ever try the Pendant with any version of the Abyss 1266? Just wondering especially if it's powerful enough.


No but I just plugged in my LCD-5 to my Pendant SE which are plenty power hungry and it drives them better than I expected with plenty left on the dial. Its got great synergy actually, not at all what I expected. I doubt the Abyss 1266 would work though, I would reach out to Justin for a recommendation on which of his amps would work best, I think you're into Bigger Ben or Nautilus territory if you want to drive the Abyss 1266 on an A&S.


----------



## Mau10

shwnwllms said:


> No but I just plugged in my LCD-5 to my Pendant SE which are plenty power hungry and it drives them better than I expected with plenty left on the dial. Its got great synergy actually, not at all what I expected. I doubt the Abyss 1266 would work though, I would reach out to Justin for a recommendation on which of his amps would work best, I think you're into Bigger Ben or Nautilus territory if you want to drive the Abyss 1266 on an A&S.


I am trying my Pendant with the LCD-5 soon, Its good to hear that they got great synergy. Which tubes are you using? impressions?


----------



## robo24

robo24 said:


> Anyone ever try the Pendant with any version of the Abyss 1266? Just wondering especially if it's powerful enough.


well to answer my own question the Pendant SE works very well with the 1266 TC, which isn't as hard to drive as the Susvara. Volume had to be turned way up, but compared to the Ragnarok 2 XLR connection, which is very powerful, I preferred the sound from the Pendant. Surprisingly good with the Glenn OTL with the right tube roll too!


----------



## Mau10

robo24 said:


> well to answer my own question the Pendant SE works very well with the 1266 TC, which isn't as hard to drive as the Susvara. Volume had to be turned way up, but compared to the Ragnarok 2 XLR connection, which is very powerful, I preferred the sound from the Pendant. Surprisingly good with the Glenn OTL with the right tube roll too!


Are you using an input tube with higher gain than a 12au7 to drive the 1266 TC?


----------



## robo24

Mau10 said:


> Are you using an input tube with higher gain than a 12au7 to drive the 1266 TC?


G73-R but don't know where that stands in terms of gain.


----------



## Mau10

robo24 said:


> G73-R but don't know where that stands in terms of gain.


G73-R is supposed to deliver the same gain of a 12au7. Congrats for your 1266, looks like a fantastic headphone. I have fallen in love with my G73-R, hopefully it really lasts those 40,000 hrs, since I didn't got any spare.


----------



## shwnwllms

Mau10 said:


> I am trying my Pendant with the LCD-5 soon, Its good to hear that they got great synergy. Which tubes are you using? impressions?



Too early for full impressions as I’ve only had it for a couple of days. I only listened to the LCD-5 for a few hours. It’s a nice change of flavor for the LCD-5 but I prefer my V550 Pro for them. Most of the listening I’ll be doing on my Pendant SE will be on my Verite Open. Tubes are below (this was previously Wes’s Pendant)

RFT EZ81 (rectifier)

Funkwerk Erfurt EL84 Welded Plate Foil Disc Getters (driver)

Brimar 6060 triple mica black plate square getter (input)


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> Too early for full impressions as I’ve only had it for a couple of days. I only listened to the LCD-5 for a few hours. It’s a nice change of flavor for the LCD-5 but I prefer my V550 Pro for them. Most of the listening I’ll be doing on my Pendant SE will be on my Verite Open. Tubes are below (this was previously Wes’s Pendant)
> 
> RFT EZ81 (rectifier)
> 
> ...


You got yourself quite the “starter” set of tubes!  I bought @Wes_S top EL84 and rectifier tubes!  I missed out on the G73R.  I switched out the 1951, 5814 Ken-Rad for a 1960 Tungsol black plate 12bh7. One of Wes’ suggestions a while back.  An excellent sounding tube. One of the things I like about the Pendant is the ease of tube rolling


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> You got yourself quite the “starter” set of tubes!  I bought @Wes_S top EL84 and rectifier tubes!  I missed out on the G73R.  I switched out the 1951, 5814 Ken-Rad for a 1960 Tungsol black plate 12bh7. One of Wes’ suggestions a while back.  An excellent sounding tube. One of the things I like about the Pendant is the ease of tube rolling



Well after reading through most of this thread I’ve pulled the trigger on a Footscray Triple Mica CV4033 57' as my first tube to roll in my Pendant SE (replacing the Brimar 6060 Triple Mica). 

@Wes S did give me a great starter set, but this seemed like a logical place to start my journey


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> Well after reading through most of this thread I’ve pulled the trigger on a Footscray Triple Mica CV4033 57' as my first tube to roll in my Pendant SE (replacing the Brimar 6060 Triple Mica).
> 
> @Wes S did give me a great starter set, but this seemed like a logical place to start my journey


Good choice!


----------



## BudKine

@shwnwllms Congrats on your purchase of the Pendant. I concur with @4LoveOfSound regarding the Tung-Sol 12BH7. It was my favorite input tube until I acquired a Telefunken G73R.


----------



## shwnwllms (Oct 31, 2022)

BudKine said:


> @shwnwllms Congrats on your purchase of the Pendant. I concur with @4LoveOfSound regarding the Tung-Sol 12BH7. It was my favorite input tube until I acquired a Telefunken G73R.



Black plate D Getter?


----------



## shwnwllms

Picked up a 59’ Tung Sol 12BH7A (BOPDG) as well


----------



## shwnwllms (Nov 8, 2022)

First roll of the day. Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate 51’ (Square Getter)


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

and……?  What do you think?


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> and……?  What do you think?



It’s a killer tube, especially for the money. Initial impressions after a few hours is it’s a great all-rounder. Nice sparkly highs without being fatiguing, defined tight bass & lush mids. Great synergy with my VO. Clean sound signature seems to play well with my May KTE. There’s nothing to complain about here. Solid performance all around.


----------



## robo24

Just got them in, but the Caldera on the Pendant is a fantastic pairing.


----------



## shwnwllms

Today’s roll. Tung Sol 12BH7A (BOPDG) 59’

Couple of pics as it warms up


----------



## shwnwllms

Holy hell Batman. After a few hours with the Tung Sol, all I can think is….

Should I sell my V550 Pro (and my LCD-5 while I’m at it)


----------



## BudKine

shwnwllms said:


> Holy hell Batman. After a few hours with the Tung Sol, all I can think is….
> 
> Should I sell my V550 Pro (and my LCD-5 while I’m at it)


That Tung-Sol 12BH7A is a badass, right? I tried the Ken-Rad 5814, but found it inferior to Tung-Sol.

So then, do you prefer the VO to the LCD-5 with the Pendant? Perhaps the LCD-5 needs more juice than the Pendant can provide?


----------



## shwnwllms

BudKine said:


> That Tung-Sol 12BH7A is a badass, right? I tried the Ken-Rad 5814, but found it inferior to Tung-Sol.
> 
> So then, do you prefer the VO to the LCD-5 with the Pendant? Perhaps the LCD-5 needs more juice than the Pendant can provide?



The Tung Sol is a beast. I should try the LCD-5 now that I have the Tung Sol in (I only listened for a short while with a Brimar 6060), it may benefit from the additional gain 

It has enough juice, it’s more of a synergy thing with the LCD-5. It drives them well enough but sounds somewhat “artificial” if that makes any sense.  The LCD-5 / V550 is just a better pairing IMO, but I’m not sure how often I’m going to use them now that I have the Pendant


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

BudKine said:


> That Tung-Sol 12BH7A is a badass, right? I tried the Ken-Rad 5814, but found it inferior to Tung-Sol.
> 
> So then, do you prefer the VO to the LCD-5 with the Pendant? Perhaps the LCD-5 needs more juice than the Pendant can provide?


I respectfully disagree that the Ken-Rad pewter plate 5814 is “inferior” to the Tungsol black plate 12bh7.  My opinion is that they are both excellent, but have a different presentation.  I will agree that the absolutely HUGE soundstage the Tungsol throws can’t be beat, but that also puts you farther away from the instruments.  Sometimes I prefer the more forward presentation of the Ken-Rad.  You can argue the bass on the Tungsol goes a little deeper but the highs on the Ken-Rad are just beautiful; detailed, sparkly, clean and super smooth.  They’re both excellent in different ways, both have a place in my collection and get listening time.  I think I prefer the Tungsol with my blackwood VC and the Ken-Rad with my aged cherry Atrium.  Again, just my humble opinion.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 10, 2022)

You fellas should stop beating around the bush, and save all that money you would spend on multiple lesser tubes and go for the tube to top them all.  The Telefunken G73R smokes the Tung Sol and Kend-Rad, and it's not even close.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I just have a hard time spending $500 ish on a tube and knowing it’s legit and not just some crap tube dipped in black paint. Plus the beautiful tube glow is part of the experience for me. Maybe next year. I’m tapped out for this year.


----------



## shwnwllms (Nov 10, 2022)

Update on the LCD-5 and the Pendant SE with the Tung Sol 12BH7A (BOPDG) 59'

I'm going to retract my previous statement about sounding artificial, that may have been the Brimar 6060 triple mica (BOPSG) I had in there at the time.

The Tung Sol actually works well with the LCD-5, as I suspected the added gain of this tube helped drive the power hungry planar from the Low Z output with ease. Even more importantly I can run the stock Mitchco FIR convolution without the need for a low shelf (which seemed to always have some unwanted tradeoffs).  The Tung Sol's deep bass extension and wide soundstage is a perfect compliment to the detail and resolution of the LCD-5 with the stock Mitcho FIR convolution (for those who aren't aware of what I'm referring to, link below). It tunes the LCD-5 to a neutral reference tuning (Mitch's Barnett's methodology explained in the link). Its an incredible convolution for the LCD-5, all other PEQ or convolutions seem to lose some resolution in the process. The only gripe I had with the Mitchco FIR convolution was it was a little light in the lower end (by design). The Tung Sol solves this problem.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/audeze-lcd-4-vs-lcd-5-yin-and-yang-r1105/


----------



## shwnwllms

Wes S said:


> You fellas should stop beating around the bush, and save all that money you would spend on multiple lesser tubes and go for the tube to top them all.  The Telefunken G73R smokes the Tung Sol and Kend-Rad, and it's not even close.


We will get there eventually, we are just following your journey. Its all about the road traveled, not how fast we arrive at the intended destination


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> We will get there eventually, we are just following your journey. Its all about the road traveled, not how fast we arrive at the intended destination


Good point!  I’m enjoying this trip for sure.


----------



## Wes S

You guys are definitely doing it just like I did by rolling threw some great tubes, and it will help you appreciate the G73R once or if you get get there.

I had the same thoughts as you all, and then once I heard the G73R, I immediately thought what the heck was I doing spending all that money and time on the other tubes.  It was a revelation and the G73R seemed to combine all the best attributes of the other's while adding some magic as well. 

@robo24 might have something to add, as he bought my G73R.


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> You fellas should stop beating around the bush, and save all that money you would spend on multiple lesser tubes and go for the tube to top them all.  The Telefunken G73R smokes the Tung Sol and Kend-Rad, and it's not even close.


Wes, you sound like ME when I was trying to convince you that a single $500 tube might be the answer!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Wes, you sound like ME when I was trying to convince you that a single $500 tube might be the answer!


LOL!  I am glad you gave me the nudge.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

nwavesailor said:


> Wes, you sound like ME when I was trying to convince you that a single $500 tube might be the answer!


I remember that!  @Wes S sounded like I do now LOL. Sooooooo why am I resisting?!  Partly because they’re nearly impossible to find right now.


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> I remember that!  @Wes S sounded like I do now LOL. Sooooooo why am I resisting?!  Partly because they’re nearly impossible to find right now.


You could split the pair with someone.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2656899521...VfNWCSSTQa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


----------



## nwavesailor

That’s a deal at $325!!!!

I may list one or both of mine at some point since the Envy doesn’t use 12***


----------



## shwnwllms

nwavesailor said:


> That’s a deal at $325!!!!
> 
> I may list one or both of mine at some point since the Envy doesn’t use 12***



If you decide to sell one PM me. I’m your Huckleberry


----------



## GAJA71

Hi All, I could do with some advice please. I recently bought a used Pendant to match my Verite Open backs, this is my first tube amp and I have been very impressed, so much so that I sold my Headamp GSX Mini this week as I immediately preferred the Pendant.  The Seller of the Pendant gave me some extra tubes, (please see the attached photo). Just to get a base line, I have the stock JJ tubes in place and find the sound to be pretty much bang on but with no previous tube experience I have no idea which are worth trying out. Can someone advise if rolling some of the extras I have will made a big difference please? I like a fairly V shaped sound, with decent levels of Bass as well as the shimmer of a lovely treble. Just for reference, I have the amp connected directly to a Lumin T2 streamer, so no additional DAC used. Thanks for any advice/knowledge which can improve on what I already have. Cheers.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I recommend you try them all, eventually. I have never heard of Watford Tubes. Can’t help there. I have some Tungsram and like them all. Some better than others but they are all good. I like RCA. They have a lot of bass in my experience however tend to be slightly subdued in the highs which might not be a good fit for you. I would give it a try. I like my RCA’s with my VC which has the same driver. Try the Tungsol too. I have a set of Gold Lion EL84. I recall liking them better than the stock JJ. There’s more to tubes than just the brand.  Hard really to say without seeing the tubes and not just the box. The sound has a lot to do with the internal construction which changed over the years. For RCA specifically, the black plate tubes are better sounding than grey. The clear glass black plates are the best in my opinion. Short plates tend to be quieter but smaller sound stage. Long plates can be noisier but not a given, and have a bigger sound. You’re about to go down a very deep and dark rabbit hole my friend!  Enjoy!!


----------



## GAJA71

4LoveOfSound said:


> I recommend you try them all, eventually. I have never heard of Watford Tubes. Can’t help there. I have some Tungsram and like them all. Some better than others but they are all good. I like RCA. They have a lot of bass in my experience however tend to be slightly subdued in the highs which might not be a good fit for you. I would give it a try. I like my RCA’s with my VC which has the same driver. Try the Tungsol too. I have a set of Gold Lion EL84. I recall liking them better than the stock JJ. There’s more to tubes than just the brand.  Hard really to say without seeing the tubes and not just the box. The sound has a lot to do with the internal construction which changed over the years. For RCA specifically, the black plate tubes are better sounding than grey. The clear glass black plates are the best in my opinion. Short plates tend to be quieter but smaller sound stage. Long plates can be noisier but not a given, and have a bigger sound. You’re about to go down a very deep and dark rabbit hole my friend!  Enjoy!!


Thanks for your advice, I will no doubt start messing around & swapping the tubes out, I guess that is the only way to find out which does what to the sound. Wife is away on business all next week so a good time to experiment... cheers


----------



## robo24

GAJA71 said:


> Thanks for your advice, I will no doubt start messing around & swapping the tubes out, I guess that is the only way to find out which does what to the sound. Wife is away on business all next week so a good time to experiment... cheers


Do yourself a favor and buy an RFT ECC82 foil getter. Really one of the best and definitely the most bang for the buck of the couple dozen tubes I've tried for that 12AU7 socket.


----------



## GAJA71

robo24 said:


> Do yourself a favor and buy an RFT ECC82 foil getter. Really one of the best and definitely the most bang for the buck of the couple dozen tubes I've tried for that 12AU7 socket.


Thanks,  what will it do to the tone please?


----------



## robo24

Not sure about tone differences. I've only used the stock tubes for a few days almost 2 years ago. What they do is increase clarity, soundstage width, and musicality.


----------



## ckhirnigs113 (Nov 12, 2022)

I think I’m going to sell the recent EL84s I got from @Wes S. Unfortunately, I had one of the Tungsram welded plate O getters fail in my Quicksilver. This was particularly unlucky because it was my favorite EL84 pair I’ve tried so far in the amp. If anyone wants a backup, I have the other one available to whomever might want it.

I’m also going to be letting go of the Funkwerk Erfurt welded plate pair EL84s I got from Wes. I’ve decided to go back to 1955 Mullards in my amp for the time being.

Shoot me a PM if you’re interested. Hope it’s ok to post here. I know Wes was very active in this thread as he documented his tube-rolling adventures with the Pendant.


----------



## shwnwllms

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I’m also going to be letting go of the Funkwerk Erfurt welded plate pair I’ve got. I’ve decided to go back to 1955 Mullards in my amp for the time being.



These are great drivers for the Pendant & what I’m using for the time being. They came in my starter set from @Wes S. Highly recommend shooting @ckhirnigs113 a PM if you don’t already own a pair of these


----------



## shwnwllms

Tonight’s tube roll - Footscray Triple Mica CV4033 57'

Up first, “How Lucky” - Kurt Vile & the late, great John Prine


----------



## shwnwllms

Today’s input tube roll

Brimar 6060 triple mica black plate square getter 56’

This was in the “starter set” @Wes S provided, and is a rare experimental prototype (marked laboratory sample). It stands out head and shoulders above anything else I’ve rolled so far.


----------



## robo24

Wes S said:


> You guys are definitely doing it just like I did by rolling threw some great tubes, and it will help you appreciate the G73R once or if you get get there.
> 
> I had the same thoughts as you all, and then once I heard the G73R, I immediately thought what the heck was I doing spending all that money and time on the other tubes.  It was a revelation and the G73R seemed to combine all the best attributes of the other's while adding some magic as well.
> 
> @robo24 might have something to add, as he bought my G73R.


While I wouldn't spend $500 on any tube, the G73R is really just on another level vs. all my other 12AU7 types. I spent the past couple days using other tubes with the Caldera and just put the G73R back in. Why do I even bother taking it out? There is a clarity to it, shimmer, deep and satisfying bass, and the soundstage just gets wider and more full.


----------



## shwnwllms

robo24 said:


> While I wouldn't spend $500 on any tube, the G73R is really just on another level vs. all my other 12AU7 types. I spent the past couple days using other tubes with the Caldera and just put the G73R back in. Why do I even bother taking it out? There is a clarity to it, shimmer, deep and satisfying bass, and the soundstage just gets wider and more full.



After today I feel much the same way about my Brimar 6060. I’m sure that will change once I get my hands on a G73R but it’s likely staying in until then.


----------



## shwnwllms

Welp I have a Brimar Footscray CV455 FSG 56' on the way from Langrex. Curious how it stacks up to the Brimar Laboratory Sample 6060 triple mica black plate square getter.


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> Welp I have a Brimar Footscray CV455 FSG 56' on the way from Langrex. Curious how it stacks up to the Brimar Laboratory Sample 6060 triple mica black plate square getter.


If you go to the Schiit Mjolnir Listening Impressions thread (June 2021 onwards), there is much commentary on this tube (one of my favourites).


----------



## shwnwllms

jonathan c said:


> If you go to the Schiit Mjolnir Listening Impressions thread (June 2021 onwards), there is much commentary on this tube (one of my favourites).



Way ahead of you. I was reading up on it there. The laboratory sample 6060 I have was likely a prototype of the CV455 so I had to pull the trigger on it. Plus I already had a CV4033 and enjoy it as well


----------



## BudKine

Here is the tube equivalent of the Telefunken G73-R; the Hewlett Packard 5080-0406 probably made by Amperex. These tubes have nearly identical performance and characteristics, and had to meet the strictest specifications.

This tube is available right now here on eBay. I’ve purchased three G73Rs from this seller. He is honest and reliable and offer is a 30 day money back guarantee if you’re unsatisfied. The listing allows you to make an offer to the seller. You could probably pick this up for $150. If you don’t like it, you can always send it back for a refund.


----------



## shwnwllms

BudKine said:


> Here is the tube equivalent of the Telefunken G73-R; the Hewlett Packard 5080-0406 probably made by Amperex. These tubes have nearly identical performance and characteristics, and had to meet the strictest specifications.
> 
> This tube is available right now here on eBay. I’ve purchased three G73Rs from this seller. He is honest and reliable and offer is a 30 day money back guarantee if you’re unsatisfied. The listing allows you to make an offer to the seller. You could probably pick this up for $150. If you don’t like it, you can always send it back for a refund.



I was watching that as of this morning. And reading up on the Amperex flavor. I wasn’t 100% sure on the seller. I’m glad you had a good experience with him, went ahead and submitted an offer. Curious if anyone has heard both versions and can offer any insight as to the sonic differences (if any as they are a strict spec like you said)


----------



## shwnwllms

BudKine said:


> You could probably pick this up for $150.



He accepted my offer at $135 🤗 

Thanks for the assist Scott!


----------



## BudKine

@shwnwllms Congrats on the new acquisition! If the HP 5080 is indeed = to the G73-R, you’ve gotten a great deal!

You were wondering if anyone had compared the two. How about I send you one of my G73-Rs to borrow and then you can make the comparison with the HP 5080. You could then post your impressions here and we could all know. PM me with your address if you are interested.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Well the G73R will have to wait.  ZMF November happened..... I tried to resist.  I made it until 7:13pm.  Something will have to go to help pay for the new purchase.


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> Well the G73R will have to wait.  ZMF November happened..... I tried to resist.  I made it until 7:13pm.  Something will have to go to help pay for the new purchase.


Wait, isn’t that a macassar ebony set? Regardless, it looks amazing!! I’m also hunting for a G73R…and haven’t made a ZMF November purchase yet 😅


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Wait, isn’t that a macassar ebony set? Regardless, it looks amazing!! I’m also hunting for a G73R…and haven’t made a ZMF November purchase yet 😅


So the picture said macassar ebony, but the drop down description was koa with a resin filled knot.  When you zoom in, it’s more porous like the koa.  The ebony is much more dense.  Either way it’s beautiful but I’d really prefer koa.  I prefer the sound of the softer woods.  I can’t believe it was still around at 7 pm last night!


----------



## jonathan c

4LoveOfSound said:


> So the picture said macassar ebony, but the drop down description was koa with a resin filled knot.  When you zoom in, it’s more porous like the koa.  The ebony is much more dense.  Either way it’s beautiful but I’d really prefer koa.  I prefer the sound of the softer woods.  I can’t believe it was still around at 7 pm last night!


🎼 “how much is 242 in the window…?”🎵


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Actually, it was one of the “cheaper” ones @ $2599.  Most of the Atriums were $2699 - $2999.  There were a couple cheaper but didn’t look like these!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Would have been cheaper to buy the pair of G73Rs on Ebay LOL


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> 🎼 “how much is 242 in the window…?”🎵


Nice Avatar!


----------



## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Well the G73R will have to wait.  ZMF November happened..... I tried to resist.  I made it until 7:13pm.  Something will have to go to help pay for the new purchase.


Killer looking pair!  They definitely look like Koa to me, and that chassis and strap are icing on the cake!  Congrats


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Wait, isn’t that a macassar ebony set? Regardless, it looks amazing!! I’m also hunting for a G73R…and haven’t made a ZMF November purchase yet 😅



​






Atrium × 1
242 R (filled knot): KOA / MAG / BLK/ $2599.99


Misprint on the original photo.


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aha! Yeah, I was taken aback by the grain and thought how unique a pattern it was for macassar ebony. Makes more sense now that it’s Koa! I love everything about it, the fabric, the strap, the chassis, they really went all out to make a unique work of art! I bet it’ll sound amazing on the Pendant.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Aha! Yeah, I was taken aback by the grain and thought how unique a pattern it was for macassar ebony. Makes more sense now that it’s Koa! I love everything about it, the fabric, the strap, the chassis, they really went all out to make a unique work of art! I bet it’ll sound amazing on the Pendant.


Can’t wait to find out!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Hey @haasaaroni, I see in your signature you have an ampsandsound forge for sale.  I was interested in those.  I take it you prefer the Pendant over the Forge?  Interested in your reasons.


----------



## haasaaroni (Nov 20, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Hey @haasaaroni, I see in your signature you have an ampsandsound forge for sale.  I was interested in those.  I take it you prefer the Pendant over the Forge?  Interested in your reasons.


Yeah! They’re both amazing amps, but I’m finding the Pendant works better with my setup and my current headphones. Aside from  the pendant being tube rectified and the Forge solid state rectified, and the Forge having a more powerful output transformer, they’re very similar. I’d say the main difference is tonality. I find the Pendant more neutral, textured, and lean, while the Forge is warm, smooth, and hefty in comparison (with a lot more power on tap as well). The 6SL7 tube type is warmer in general, though it can change a lot with a tube roll. I initially got it because I had the Arya Stealth and was looking to warm up the sound and calm down the highs, which is exactly what it did, but when I sold the Arya for an HD8XX, I found I didn’t need that much power or smoothness in the treble. So I decided to give the Pendant SE a try. And tonally, it does what I wanted it to do, with a more neutral bass presentation and textured sound. I do still love the bass on the Forge though. It practically turned the low end of my 6XX into a Focal Radiance.

There’s also a staging difference. With the Sophia KT88’s, the Forge stages much farther left to right, making the sound extremely expansive but with more intimate vocals, while the Pendant throws everything in front of the listener more, and at more of a (forward) distance, but with less l/r width. Sound images are smaller on the Pendant as well, while things sound bigger on the Forge. Imaging capabilities between the two are about on par, and details are also pretty even between the two, although the Pendant seems bring the highs more forward, while never getting sharp. The difference _was_ enough to convince me to use the OG Aeolus pads on my Aeolus with it, though, which is something I never thought I’d do! It just had too much of that 5khz peak with the suede universe pads that the Pendant was bringing out.

So it’s mostly a synergistic reason I’m selling it. I would say even the Forge leans to the neutral side of things in the world of tube amps, but I wasn’t finding a need for the extra bass and slight treble roll off compared with the Pendant, so the Pendant has taken its spot. I haven’t been able to hear my Auteur Classic on it yet, but it should be shipping back any day now, so I’ll be able to hear the combo. I also like how it’s slightly smaller and has that gorgeous walnut burl chassis 😍 Everything associated with the ZMF name is just beautiful.


----------



## robo24

haasaaroni said:


> Yeah! They’re both amazing amps, but I’m finding the Pendant works better with my setup and my current headphones. Aside from  the pendant being tube rectified and the Forge solid state rectified, and the Forge having a more powerful output transformer, they’re very similar. I’d say the main difference is tonality. I find the Pendant more neutral, textured, and lean, while the Forge is warm, smooth, and hefty in comparison (with a lot more power on tap as well). The 6SL7 tube type is warmer in general, though it can change a lot with a tube roll. I initially got it because I had the Arya Stealth and was looking to warm up the sound and calm down the highs, which is exactly what it did, but when I sold the Arya for an HD8XX, I found I didn’t need that much power or smoothness in the treble. So I decided to give the Pendant SE a try. And tonally, it does what I wanted it to do, with a more neutral bass presentation and textured sound. I do still love the bass on the Forge though. It practically turned the low end of my 6XX into a Focal Radiance.
> 
> There’s also a staging difference. With the Sophia KT88’s, the Forge stages much farther left to right, making the sound extremely expansive but with more intimate vocals, while the Pendant throws everything in front of the listener more, and at more of a (forward) distance, but with less l/r width. Sound images are smaller on the Pendant as well, while things sound bigger on the Forge. Imaging capabilities between the two are about on par, and details are also pretty even between the two, although the Pendant seems bring the highs more forward, while never getting sharp. The difference _was_ enough to convince me to use the OG Aeolus pads on my Aeolus with it, though, which is something I never thought I’d do! It just had too much of that 5khz peak with the suede universe pads that the Pendant was bringing out.
> 
> So it’s mostly a synergistic reason I’m selling it. I would say even the Forge leans to the neutral side of things in the world of tube amps, but I wasn’t finding a need for the extra bass and slight treble roll off compared with the Pendant, so the Pendant has taken its spot. I haven’t been able to hear my Auteur Classic on it yet, but it should be shipping back any day now, so I’ll be able to hear the combo. I also like how it’s slightly smaller and has that gorgeous walnut burl chassis 😍 Everything associated with the ZMF name is just beautiful.


I feel like the Auteur OG benefitted the most from the Pendant SE when I first got it, and of course the Classic is even better.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The OG Auteur definitely pairs well with the Pendant.  So does the Atrium.  I actually prefer my blackwood VC with my tube hybrid or SS amp.  I know that treble zing on the Aeolus with the suede universe pads.  I prefer those pads but have to limit my listening time.  The Forge sounds interesting but I’m tapped out of $$$$$$.  Not exactly sure how I’m paying for the new Atrium I just bought.  I have a month to figure it out


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> Not exactly sure how I’m paying for the new Atrium I just bought.  I have a month to figure it out



Still have both of your kidneys?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> Still have both of your kidneys?


I do and would prefer to keep it that way!


----------



## haasaaroni (Nov 22, 2022)

So my Pendant SE is pretty new to me, just under a month, but my tube rolling journey with it is starting to take off.

I just bought a nice late 50's/early 60's (the 2-letter date code is no longer on the tube) Telefunken smooth plate 12AU7 from eBay, and wow does it blow all my other tubes I've tried so far out of the water! In blackness of background, tone, and stage. I was hesitant to jump into the Telefunken world, being so expensive, but I no longer have any doubts about how incredible these tubes are. Makes me even more curious to hear the G-73R...


----------



## Dawgfish

haasaaroni said:


> So my Pendant SE is pretty new to me, just under a month, but my tube rolling journey with it is starting to take off.
> 
> I just bought a nice late 50's/early 60's (the 2-letter date code is no longer on the tube) Telefunken smooth plate 12AU7 from eBay, and wow does it blow all my other tubes I've tried so far out of the water! In blackness of background, tone, and stage. I was hesitant to jump into the Telefunken world, being so expensive, but I no longer have any doubts about how incredible these tubes are. Makes me even more curious to hear the G-73R...


The Telefunken smooth plates are great tubes.  A lot of Telefunkens can be sterile or overly analytical sounding for my tastes.  The smooth plates though have a touch of warmth that combined with the other characteristics you mentioned makes them great tubes.  Glad you are enjoying them!


----------



## shwnwllms

On deck for today. HP 5080-0406 (Amperex version of the G73R)


----------



## shwnwllms

Todays roll

Telefunken ECC801S 61‘


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> Todays roll
> 
> Telefunken ECC801S 61‘


A great tube! (Especially in Woo WA2)


----------



## shwnwllms

jonathan c said:


> A great tube! (Especially in Woo WA2)



I bought a matched pair off @billerb1 (for a screaming deal) who was using them in his WA2 😉


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> I bought a matched pair off @billerb1 (for a screaming deal) who was using them in his WA2 😉


That’s because he was enchanted by / lured to the Telefunken G-73R s …..🤪


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> That’s because he was enchanted by / lured to the Telefunken G-73R s …..🤪


You got that right my friend.  The G73R is the only tube that could replace the Tele ECC801S's in my WA2.  But the G73R IS that good !!! I have a very strong feeling both you and Shawn will go there eventually.  At that point you'll both kick yourselves for having waited so long.


----------



## shwnwllms

billerb1 said:


> At that point you'll both kick yourselves for having waited so long.



I got my Pendant SE from @Wes S less than a month ago, I’m not going straight for a Moonshot


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> On deck for today. HP 5080-0406 (Amperex version of the G73R)


What did you think of it?? I’m curious to hear.


----------



## shwnwllms (Nov 23, 2022)

haasaaroni said:


> What did you think of it?? I’m curious to hear.



Honestly, I think I’ll be returning it. I can’t find a lot of information on it but there is another member on this thread with the Amperex version and his has a hand written number (similar to the G73R’s that I’ve seen). Hand written makes sense if these were not production tubes but spare parts for HP & Agilent. Mine is stamped with the HP logo and part number, so either a later production or a fake. The black coating looks off somewhat as well. Hard to tell from the bottom since there is no diamond like the Telefunken but it seems like it could be a later production tube. 

Here is the thing that made me really sus, based on the gain it seems more like an 12AT7/ECC81 than a 12AU7/ECC82 (which the Telefunken G73R is, stands to reason the Amperex would be the same if they were identical spec)

Other than that it’s forward in the upper-mids / treble (very fatiguing at higher volumes). Bass is tight but not very impactful, very clean and resolving, neutral. No holographic magic, decay or bloom in the low end. Reminds me of some unremarkable newer production tubes I’ve heard. The Telefunken ECC801S I rolled in afterwards mops the floor with it in every way imaginable (and no fatigue whatsoever)

It could be real, and since it’s Amperex I just don’t enjoy the sound (even if the Tele and Amperex meet the same spec stands to reason they are both going to retain some house sound - different factories in different parts of the world etc) Either way I’m likely going to return it. I’ve got 30 days but I don’t see a reason to keep this one even it’s rare. I’ll keep hunting for a legit G73R for my endgame.

Now that I’m looking at it the HP logo looks like it was done by hand. Poorly


----------



## bcowen

shwnwllms said:


> Edit


That's the most concise review I've ever seen.   🤣


----------



## shwnwllms

bcowen said:


> That's the most concise review I've ever seen.   🤣



I wrote something completely different. Changed my mind and didn’t want someone quoting the original garbage I wrote. I figured someone would quote the edit lol


----------



## robo24

Just put several tubes in the classifieds, all discussed a bit in this thread. Includes GEC U709 rectifier. None used much other than the GEC, which I got from WesS 2 months ago. All fantastic, just trying to fund some recent and future purchases.


----------



## shwnwllms

Update on the Amperex HP 5080-0406, it’s packed up and ready to be returned. Seller claims to have some legit G73R’s stashed away somewhere. 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

@BudKine check your PMs

Today wasn’t the day I obtained a Holy Grail input tube, but thanks to @robo24 I’ve got my Holy Grail rectifier on the way. 1950’s G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 

The hunt continues…


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> Update on the Amperex HP 5080-0406, it’s packed up and ready to be returned. Seller claims to have some legit G73R’s stashed away somewhere.
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> @BudKine check your PMs
> ...


Too bad about the Amperex tube. If that seller is able to find some G73R’s I’d be curious to know as well!


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> You got that right my friend.  The G73R is the only tube that could replace the Tele ECC801S's in my WA2.  But the G73R IS that good !!! I have a very strong feeling both you and Shawn will go there eventually.  At that point you'll both kick yourselves for having waited so long.


I have been sidelined by the Western Electric 396A / 2C51 (w/ 5670 => 6922 adapter) ….


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> I have been sidelined by the Western Electric 396A / 2C51 (w/ 5670 => 6922 adapter) ….


More avoidance.  I give up.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> More avoidance.  I give up.


🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


----------



## billerb1

There are a lot of really nice tubes out there.  And then there's the Grand Canyon...and those are the G73R's on the other side.
Get your binoculars out.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> There are a lot of really nice tubes out there.  And then there's the Grand Canyon...and those are the G73R's on the other side.
> Get your binoculars out.


“….because a glimpse is all that you will get” 🤣


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> There are a lot of really nice tubes out there.  And then there's the Grand Canyon...and those are the G73R's on the other side.
> Get your binoculars out.


More like call your banker and see what interest rate you can negotiate on a 2nd mortgage.   🤣


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> More like call your banker and see what interest rate you can negotiate on a 2nd mortgage.   🤣


It's insane.


----------



## nwavesailor

It is a great tube and there is absolutely a real supply and demand issue with so few G73-R ever produced.


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> I wrote something completely different. Changed my mind and didn’t want someone quoting the original garbage I wrote. I figured someone would quote the edit lol


….or plagiarise the edit….😏🤪😏🤪….


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 25, 2022)

shwnwllms said:


> Honestly, I think I’ll be returning it. I can’t find a lot of information on it but there is another member on this thread with the Amperex version and his has a hand written number (similar to the G73R’s that I’ve seen). Hand written makes sense if these were not production tubes but spare parts for HP & Agilent. Mine is stamped with the HP logo and part number, so either a later production or a fake. The black coating looks off somewhat as well. Hard to tell from the bottom since there is no diamond like the Telefunken but it seems like it could be a later production tube.
> 
> Here is the thing that made me really sus, based on the gain it seems more like an 12AT7/ECC81 than a 12AU7/ECC82 (which the Telefunken G73R is, stands to reason the Amperex would be the same if they were identical spec)
> 
> ...


The hp logo is a _flag. _There is no evidence / indication that Telefunken stamped / drew on the G73R a logo for either Agilent Technology or Hewlett-Packard. Given that there were only two corporate customers, that the G73R were made to extremely tight specifications as a non-commercial product with limited production runs, why would a logo be even needed? PS, where is the Telefunken diamond on the base?


----------



## shwnwllms (Nov 25, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> The hp logo is a _flag. _There is no evidence / indication that Telefunken stamped / drew on the G73R a logo for either Agilent Technology or Hewlett-Packard. Given that there were only two corporate customers, that the G73R were made to extremely tight specifications as a non-commercial product with limited production runs, why would a logo be even needed? PS, where is the Telefunken diamond on the base?


 
If these were Amperex made and not Telefunken there would be no diamonds. But I agree with you on the logo. I’ve already got my refund. Seller says they have some G73Rs somewhere but I’m skeptical at this point given my experience thus far

Also seller has refunded me and the item hasn’t even shipped out let alone been received back by them back in California. That has never happened in my life. Makes me think they knew it was a fake.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> Update on the Amperex HP 5080-0406, it’s packed up and ready to be returned. Seller claims to have some legit G73R’s stashed away somewhere.
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> @BudKine check your PMs
> ...


I have one of @Wes S  U709.  You’re going to like it!


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> I have one of @Wes S  U709.  You’re going to like it!


Now if I could just find a couple of Tungsram EL84 (Welded Plate O Getters) and a G73R I'll be set


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> If these were Amperex made and not Telefunken there would be no diamonds. But I agree with you on the logo. I’ve already got my refund. Seller says they have some G73Rs somewhere but I’m skeptical at this point given my experience thus far
> 
> Also seller has refunded me and the item hasn’t even shipped out let alone been received back by them back in California. That has never happened in my life. Makes me think they knew it was a fake.


Also, as an ultra-specified limited production tube, why would there be two makers / suppliers? Having only one would reduce the possibility of product variances.


----------



## shwnwllms

jonathan c said:


> Also, as an ultra-specified limited production tube, why would there be two makers / suppliers? Having only one would reduce the possibility of product variances.



I don't disagree, there is some evidence of an Amperex made version however, the ones I have seen are handwritten though with the HP part number 5080-0406 instead of G73R. Its been discussed in a few forums, there is a user who bought one in this thread (back in June I think).


----------



## billerb1

Hey I have another pair of the Telefunken ECC801S's.  If anyone is interested just PM me.


----------



## shwnwllms

billerb1 said:


> Hey I have another pair of the Telefunken ECC801S's.  If anyone is interested just PM me.



Somebody needs to jump on this. Killer deal and they do not disappoint


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> Now if I could just find a couple of Tungsram EL84 (Welded Plate O Getters) and a G73R I'll be





billerb1 said:


> Hey I have another pair of the Telefunken ECC801S's.  If anyone is interested just PM me.


PM’d


----------



## shwnwllms

My FAW Noir HPC Mk2 arrived today and I am in awe at the synergy between the LCD-5 & Pendant SE


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

billerb1 said:


> Hey I have another pair of the Telefunken ECC801S's.  If anyone is interested just PM me.


Well these are sold LOL!  I’ll have a new tube to roll in about a week!  Thanks @billerb1 !


----------



## shwnwllms

Look what showed up today and is warming up from its trip across the pond. I had almost forgot about this guy since Langrex never sent me tracking

Brimar Footscray CV455 FSG 56'


----------



## jonathan c

shwnwllms said:


> Look what showed up today and is warming up from its trip across the pond. I had almost forgot about this guy since Langrex never sent me tracking
> 
> Brimar Footscray CV455 FSG 56'


Nice tube!! I have a number of them!! My Langrex orders are usually at home by ten days from placement.


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 28, 2022)

Were near the top of my list for quite awhile.  I thought the detail retrieval was extraordinary and soundstage was layered and beautifully nuanced.  I didn't feel they did instrument timbre as well as the Telefunken ECC801S's however.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I got a surprise package today too!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Thanks again @billerb1.  This Telefunken 801S is pretty sweet.


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> Thanks again @billerb1.  This Telefunken 801S is pretty sweet.



I had a feeling you were going to like it, can’t wait to hear some impressions


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 28, 2022)

TFK 801S s work wonders in WA2…😍


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 28, 2022)

Yeah Telefunkens and the Woo WA2 definitely have it going on.  So PURE.  Hopefully for Steve and Shawn it approaches that with the Pendant.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> I had a feeling you were going to like it, can’t wait to hear some impressions


Just a quick note: this Telefunken 801S has brought my Atriums to a whole new level of awesome!  The detail in the music is just stunning. The bass is like nothing I’ve heard to date.  Even better than the TungSol 12bh7. The highs have a detailed, smooth clarity that is just incredible. Even better than the Ken-Rad 5814. Excellent sound stage for a short plate tube. About the same as the Ken-Rad but definitely not as huge as the TungSol 12bh7. This is definitely my new #1!  Fortunately the Pendant only uses 1 so since I bought a pair, I have a spare!  Now I need my new Koa Atrium and Norne Skollvar 2 hybrid cable!  I can’t thank you enough @billerb1!


----------



## billerb1

So glad you're happy with them my friend.  To me Telefunkens are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Can you handle the truth ???!!!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

billerb1 said:


> So glad you're happy with them my friend.  To me Telefunkens are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
> Can you handle the truth ???!!!


Yes!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Thanks to Bill and Wes, I have nearly maxed out the performance of my Pendant SE. Just the Telefunken g73r left.


----------



## jonathan c

4LoveOfSound said:


> Thanks to Bill and Wes, I have nearly maxed out the performance of my Pendant SE. Just the Telefunken g73r left.


That is one hell of a ‘just’….😝


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> Thanks to Bill and Wes, I have nearly maxed out the performance of my Pendant SE. Just the Telefunken g73r left.



You could always squeeze out a bit more performance by going down the HQPlayer rabbit hole with me. (You know until you get your hands on a G73R, which coincidentally would be much cheaper in the long run btw) 🤣


----------



## shwnwllms

Fresh in from Hawaii, about to roll my end game rectifier. Thanks @robo24!!!

G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 54’


----------



## Wes S

shwnwllms said:


> Fresh in from Hawaii, about to roll my end game rectifier. Thanks @robo24!!!
> 
> G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter 54’


That sure looks familiar. . .Enjoy that amazing tube!


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 30, 2022)

I would be willing to sell one of my Marconi square getter U709's.  PM me if interested.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

You guys are killing me!  I have to pay my new Atriums!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

At least I have one GEC U709 from @Wes S 😁


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Someone else should jump on thar offer. It’s worth the $.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

My new Atrium is inbound!  I got a tracker number.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

#242 was picked up and are on their way East!  Estimated arrival is December 4.  

Listened for a little bit last night. I just can’t get over the clarity the  Telefunken 801s has brought to the Atrium. I used to feel that the Atrium detail was just a touch less than the VC. I don’t know how, but it’s equal with the 801s.  The 801s is my new favorite input tube and the Atrium is hands down my favorite ZMF headphone so far (VC, Auteur, Aeolus, Atrium). I would love to hear a VO!  There’s always Hot Cup Summer 2023!


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> #242 was picked up and are on their way East!  Estimated arrival is December 4.
> 
> Listened for a little bit last night. I just can’t get over the clarity the  Telefunken 801s has brought to the Atrium. I used to feel that the Atrium detail was just a touch less than the VC. I don’t know how, but it’s equal with the 801s.  The 801s is my new favorite input tube and the Atrium is hands down my favorite ZMF headphone so far (VC, Auteur, Aeolus, Atrium). I would love to hear a VO!  There’s always Hot Cup Summer 2023!


Congrats! I was actually able to hear this exact combination with my pendant and a friend’s aged cherry Atrium over the last two days, with a telefunken ecc801s he lent me as well. And I’m finding the same thing, with the Atrium, it’s just crazy detail. It’s an amazing headphone and an awesome pairing!

Unfortunately (fortunately for my wallet) I’m finding the Atrium too hot in the upper midrange for my tastes, and I’ve decided to stick with my Auteur Classics. The interesting thing is that I greatly prefer my telefunken ECC82 smooth plates for that pairing. It’s always good to get confirmation that I’m happy where I am! Now just waiting for my RFT foil getters to get here from the Ukraine…


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> #242 was picked up and are on their way East!  Estimated arrival is December 4.
> 
> Listened for a little bit last night. I just can’t get over the clarity the  Telefunken 801s has brought to the Atrium. I used to feel that the Atrium detail was just a touch less than the VC. I don’t know how, but it’s equal with the 801s.  The 801s is my new favorite input tube and the Atrium is hands down my favorite ZMF headphone so far (VC, Auteur, Aeolus, Atrium). I would love to hear a VO!  There’s always Hot Cup Summer 2023!



The ECC801S is incredible on the VO, especially with universe pads which are more laid back than the BE2. It helps bring back that touch of detail I was missing with the Universe Pads (and BE2 are too fatiguing for long term listening sessions for me anyway)



haasaaroni said:


> Now just waiting for my RFT foil getters to get here from the Ukraine…



Already have my RFT foil getters but I’m waiting patiently for my Tungsram Welded Plate Foil Disc Getters from Czech Republic (they just hit customs in NY today)


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Congrats! I was actually able to hear this exact combination with my pendant and a friend’s aged cherry Atrium over the last two days, with a telefunken ecc801s he lent me as well. And I’m finding the same thing, with the Atrium, it’s just crazy detail. It’s an amazing headphone and an awesome pairing!
> 
> Unfortunately (fortunately for my wallet) I’m finding the Atrium too hot in the upper midrange for my tastes, and I’ve decided to stick with my Auteur Classics. The interesting thing is that I greatly prefer my telefunken ECC82 smooth plates for that pairing. It’s always good to get confirmation that I’m happy where I am! Now just waiting for my RFT foil getters to get here from the Ukraine…


If you change your mind, I know where you can get a “like new” set of aged cherry Atriums……

I did hear that hot spot you’re talking about the other day. Last night I didn’t.  So it seems more recording dependent. I might try different pads. I use universe lamb skin but have auteur and be2 lamb skin and auteur and universe in suede.


----------



## Dawgfish (Dec 2, 2022)

I to thought the Atriums were a little hot in the upper mids but rolling the Auteur lambskin pads remedied that.  They are perfect for my tastes now.


----------



## haasaaroni

Dawgfish said:


> I to thought the Atriums were a little hot in the upper mids but rolling the Auteur lambskin pads remedied that.  They are perfect for my tastes now.


Well, I just returned his Atrium to him, so I will never know!   As for now, I'm perfectly content with the magical combination of the Auteur Classic and Pendant SE.


----------



## Dawgfish

haasaaroni said:


> Well, I just returned his Atrium to him, so I will never know!   As for now, I'm perfectly content with the magical combination of the Auteur Classic and Pendant SE.


I bet that's an outstanding combo!! I'm waiting to get my hands on the Auteur Classic.  I almost pulled the trigger several times on either the marblewood version or one of the stabilized versions in this year's November sale.  I keep waffling on getting one of those or a VC or the Caldera.  I'm leaning towards the Caldera since I already have a VO and Auteur OG and the Caldera will be the most different.


----------



## jonathan c

Dawgfish said:


> I bet that's an outstanding combo!! I'm waiting to get my hands on the Auteur Classic.  I almost pulled the trigger several times on either the marblewood version or one of the stabilized versions in this year's November sale.  I keep waffling on getting one of those or a VC or the Caldera.  I'm leaning towards the Caldera since I already have a VO and Auteur OG and the Caldera will be the most different.


If maximum difference from Auteur OG / VO is the primary criterion, l👀k no further:


----------



## Dawgfish

jonathan c said:


> If maximum difference from Auteur OG / VO is the primary criterion, l👀k no further:


Lol!  We have a new contender! 🤪


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

Dawgfish said:


> I to thought the Atriums were a little hot in the upper mids but rolling the Auteur lambskin pads remedied that.  They are perfect for my tastes now.


I’ll have to try the Auteur lambskin pads with the 801s.  I like the universe lambskin pads with the Ken-Rad 5814.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Well, I just returned his Atrium to him, so I will never know!   As for now, I'm perfectly content with the magical combination of the Auteur Classic and Pendant SE.


I have an OG Auteur and it’s awesome with the Pendant.  So I’m not surprised the Classic is as well.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I got a FedEx shipping exception today   #242 is stuck in La Grange, IL


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> I got a FedEx shipping exception today   #242 is stuck in La Grange, IL


Every package I’m tracking (coming & going) seems to be stuck somewhere. Me thinks status updates are not correct and shippers aren’t updating until their reach regional distribution centers at destination (to save time on their end due to sheer volume of Black Friday shipments going out)


----------



## haasaaroni (Dec 4, 2022)

shwnwllms said:


> Already have my RFT foil getters but I’m waiting patiently for my Tungsram Welded Plate Foil Disc Getters from Czech Republic (they just hit customs in NY today)


So apparently Brent Jessee just got some of these Tungsram in himself! I ordered a single tube. Crazy timing too. I sent an email to see if he had any after seeing your post, and he replied that he had just gotten 4 matched pairs in from France! He hasn't even listed them on the site yet.


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> So apparently Brent Jessee just got some of these Tungsram in himself! I ordered a single tube. Crazy timing too. I sent an email to see if he had any after seeing your post, and he replied that he had just gotten 4 matched pairs in from France! He hasn't even listed them on the site yet.


Foil Disc Getters or Foil O Getters?


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> Foil Disc Getters or Foil O Getters?


He said they’re dual foil disk getters, with a very heavy too getter flash and yellow labels, from the early to mid 50’s.


----------



## shwnwllms (Dec 4, 2022)

haasaaroni said:


> He said they’re dual foil disk getters, with a very heavy too getter flash and yellow labels, from the early to mid 50’s.


Yep those are the same ones. I should have mine early this week. The foil disc getters (also welded plates) are early 50’s but virtually unobtainium


----------



## shwnwllms

After a trip halfway around the world (and a second adventure completely around my neighborhood to chase down the mailman since I was on a call and missed his delivery attempt by 30 minutes) my Tungsram EL84 (WPFDG) 58’ have arrived and are warming up. The RFT EL84 (WPFDG) I was running in the driver position previously were no slouch, definitely more focused but I can tell already I’ll enjoy the Tungsram more. I’m absolutely floored with this combo of tubes in my Pendant SE + VO (the Holo May KTE plays a huge role as well)


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> After a trip halfway around the world (and a second adventure completely around my neighborhood to chase down the mailman since I was on a call and missed his delivery attempt by 30 minutes) my Tungsram EL84 (WPFDG) 58’ have arrived and are warming up. The RFT EL84 (WPFDG) I was running in the driver position previously were no slouch, definitely more focused but I can tell already I’ll enjoy the Tungsram more. I’m absolutely floored with this combo of tubes in my Pendant SE + VO (the Holo May KTE plays a huge role as well)


Nice! I assumed you were getting the tungsrams as a preamp tube, but I was mistaken! The Tungsram early 50’s foil disk getter I have coming in is an ECC82 😅


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

#242 arrived today!


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> #242 arrived today!


Gorgeous!


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

The picture really doesn't do these justice.  I'm really impressed with these.  I'll give them some break in time then compare the sound with the aged cherry set I haven't sold yet.  First impression is the Koa has more bass than the cherry.


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> The picture really doesn't do these justice.  I'm really impressed with these.  I'll give them some break in time then compare the sound with the aged cherry set I haven't sold yet.  First impression is the Koa has more bass than the cherry.


Those look amazing! You might be hearing the difference between a burnt in pair and a fresh one. The Atrium seems to change a lot with burn in. Congrats!


----------



## robo24

4LoveOfSound said:


> The picture really doesn't do these justice.  I'm really impressed with these.  I'll give them some break in time then compare the sound with the aged cherry set I haven't sold yet.  First impression is the Koa has more bass than the cherry.


I wonder if that's just lack of burn in. My cherry seemed to have more bass, especially sub-bass when I first got it, and didn't really notice anything different when I got my Koa which I burned in at least 50 hours before spending much time with it.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Those look amazing! You might be hearing the difference between a burnt in pair and a fresh one. The Atrium seems to change a lot with burn in. Congrats!


Yes it does.  I'll wait a while before I compare them.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

robo24 said:


> I wonder if that's just lack of burn in. My cherry seemed to have more bass, especially sub-bass when I first got it, and didn't really notice anything different when I got my Koa which I burned in at least 50 hours before spending much time with it.


Good to know.  I'll burn them in for a while before trying to compare.


----------



## haasaaroni

Anybody here ever try to run the HE-1000 V2 off the Pendant? Apparently (and unexpectedly) they're poised to release a Stealth Magnets version of the V2, as distinct from the HE-1000SE. I've sold all my solid state gear, but I'm curious to know if the 90db planar will be an okay match with the Pendant SE.


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> Anybody here ever try to run the HE-1000 V2 off the Pendant? Apparently (and unexpectedly) they're poised to release a Stealth Magnets version of the V2, as distinct from the HE-1000SE. I've sold all my solid state gear, but I'm curious to know if the 90db planar will be an okay match with the Pendant SE.


I run the LCD-5 on mine regularly. It’s an incredible pairing IMO. They are 90dB sensitivity at 14 ohms impedance. They do fine as long as I don’t go nutz with EQ and need a bunch of headroom. When I’m just using the Roon presets it’s 3-4 clicks louder than my VO


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> I run the LCD-5 on mine regularly. It’s an incredible pairing IMO. They are 90dB sensitivity at 14 ohms impedance. They do fine as long as I don’t go nutz with EQ and need a bunch of headroom. When I’m just using the Roon presets it’s 3-4 clicks louder than my VO


Awesome. The synergy between Audeze and Ampsandsound gear is very real. I’ll be interested to see how the HEKV2 Stealth matches. Thanks!

Now time to test the Tungsram 12AU7 dual foil disk getters…


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> Awesome. The synergy between Audeze and Ampsandsound gear is very real. I’ll be interested to see how the HEKV2 Stealth matches. Thanks!
> 
> Now time to test the Tungsram 12AU7 dual foil disk getters…


What year are those? They don’t look like welded plates from that photo

The synergy is real with A&S and Audeze but I’ll be keeping my V550 Pro. The Pendant SE handles them better than I had expected but there’s a magic with Violectric and LCD-5 (esp speed and transients) that can’t be beat. Plus it’s got all the headroom in the world for EQ

Current status. I’ve listened to both amps back to back today with my LCD-5 (with a pigtail to easily swap between)


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> What year are those? They don’t look like welded plates from that photo


Not sure what year, but he said it was from the early-mid 50's. Just to be clear, the power tubes are Amperex EL84's (not welded plates), but I was referring to the Tungsram in the pre-amp socket. It was the only angle I could get a clear picture of the label with  I'm not sure at all if has welded plates, but I'm loving the sound so far! How would I be able to identify if they have welded plates?


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> Not sure what year, but he said it was from the early-mid 50's. Just to be clear, the power tubes are Amperex EL84's (not welded plates), but I was referring to the Tungsram in the pre-amp socket. It was the only angle I could get a clear picture of the label with  I'm not sure at all if has welded plates, but I'm loving the sound so far! How would I be able to identify if they have welded plates?


Ahh that makes sense. I forgot you got an ECC82 from Brent. I thought you were referring to the EL84’s 

Welded plates look like this (you can see the distinguishing weld marks inside the tube)


----------



## haasaaroni

More preamp tubes! A pair of ECC82 RFT foil getters just came today from Ukraine.

All that’s left is to pick up a couple good rectifiers (using the one included in the “vintage” set from ZMF) and I’ll be in a very stable and happy place with my Pendant.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

I have a couple of those.  I thought they were worth the wait.  I think you'll like them. "I’ll be in a very stable and happy place with my Pendant" , good luck with that!  I thought that at least 5 times LOL


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> “I’ll be in a very stable and happy place with my Pendant" , good luck with that!  I thought that at least 5 times LOL


You’re right. Until I wrangle up a G73-R there will be no rest 🤣


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> I have a couple of those. I thought they were worth the wait. I think you'll like them.


Ohhh man you were right! The RFT foil getters pairs REALLY well with the Auteur Classic in particular. I like it more than my Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates. It doesn't have as much bass bloom or smoothness, but more impact with just as much soundstage. Tone is no quite on the same level, but pretty close. Really beautifully textured, tight presentation. For a tube that costs $25, that's incredible.


----------



## deej

Hi, just wondering everyone's thoughts on which headphone I should get to complement my Atriums and VC on the original Pendant.  I've narrowed my search to the Utopia, LCD-5 and Susvara.  Of the 3 I've only heard the Utopia's and that was years ago.  I was floored by the resolution, depth characteristics it was presenting and it's airy high frequencies.  With that said, I'm more looking for the headphone that will play well with my Pendant/Qutest as I'm sure all 3 of these are outstanding on the right setup.  If I could audition all 3 on my setup I would do that, but I'm nowhere close to a location that could provide that.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts!


----------



## nwavesailor

The Sus need a bit more than the Pendant to sound their best I had that combo and moved up to the Bigger Ben. The BB / Sus were a good pairing. 
I like the LCD-5 but have not heard them with a Pendant


----------



## deej

nwavesailor said:


> The Sus need a bit more than the Pendant to sound their best I had that combo and moved up to the Bigger Ben. The BB / Sus were a good pairing.
> I like the LCD-5 but have not heard them with a Pendant


I figured I'd be pushing it with the Susvara's! Thank you for the input.


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Ohhh man you were right! The RFT foil getters pairs REALLY well with the Auteur Classic in particular. I like it more than my Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates. It doesn't have as much bass bloom or smoothness, but more impact with just as much soundstage. Tone is no quite on the same level, but pretty close. Really beautifully textured, tight presentation. For a tube that costs $25, that's incredible.


I might have to pull mine out for a listen…..


----------



## robo24

deej said:


> Hi, just wondering everyone's thoughts on which headphone I should get to complement my Atriums and VC on the original Pendant.  I've narrowed my search to the Utopia, LCD-5 and Susvara.  Of the 3 I've only heard the Utopia's and that was years ago.  I was floored by the resolution, depth characteristics it was presenting and it's airy high frequencies.  With that said, I'm more looking for the headphone that will play well with my Pendant/Qutest as I'm sure all 3 of these are outstanding on the right setup.  If I could audition all 3 on my setup I would do that, but I'm nowhere close to a location that could provide that.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's thoughts!


Why not ZMF Caldera? Cheapest of the 3 and is a fantastic pairing with the Pendant. I agree the Susvara would have issues, as the Caldera, which is relatively easy to power, sounds best on the 8ohm socket, can reach "too loud" but without much extra power left to go higher. I've only heard those 3 recently at CanJam. None did much for me but the Caldera grabbed me from the get go.


----------



## steve468

deej said:


> Hi, just wondering everyone's thoughts on which headphone I should get to complement my Atriums and VC on the original Pendant.  I've narrowed my search to the Utopia, LCD-5 and Susvara.  Of the 3 I've only heard the Utopia's and that was years ago.  I was floored by the resolution, depth characteristics it was presenting and it's airy high frequencies.  With that said, I'm more looking for the headphone that will play well with my Pendant/Qutest as I'm sure all 3 of these are outstanding on the right setup.  If I could audition all 3 on my setup I would do that, but I'm nowhere close to a location that could provide that.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's thoughts!


Just to muddy the waters a bit further, have you thought of a LCD-4? To me, the tight, impactful sound of the Pendant is an amazing match with the warm and detailed LCD-4. I had the Utopia for a time, and while surprisingly similar to the Audeze in a lot of ways, just thought it was…maybe a bit wimpy? Like everything was a bit distant. I’ve never been able to find the words to describe it. I’ve heard the LCD-5, but not on the Pendant, and it sounded like a more complete Utopia, so it might have the same issue? Maybe not, it’s a great headphone that I might have to pick up soon.

It might just be my ZMF-trained ears (I need THICC everything), but the LCD-4 really comes alive on the Pendant.


----------



## shwnwllms

deej said:


> Hi, just wondering everyone's thoughts on which headphone I should get to complement my Atriums and VC on the original Pendant.  I've narrowed my search to the Utopia, LCD-5 and Susvara.  Of the 3 I've only heard the Utopia's and that was years ago.  I was floored by the resolution, depth characteristics it was presenting and it's airy high frequencies.  With that said, I'm more looking for the headphone that will play well with my Pendant/Qutest as I'm sure all 3 of these are outstanding on the right setup.  If I could audition all 3 on my setup I would do that, but I'm nowhere close to a location that could provide that.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's thoughts!


The LCD-5 is a great choice (as is the LCD-4). With that being said I still own a solid state amp and prefer my LCD-5 on my V550 Pro. The Pendant SE is a great pairing with the LCD-5 though, it just gets more time overall on my V550 Pro. My VO is exclusively for my Pendant, the LCD-5 can be driven by either and completely changes the overall presentation of the LCD-5 with each.


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> All that’s left is to pick up a couple good rectifiers


https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/price-reduced-marconi-gec-osram-u709-ez81-very-rare.37157/


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> I might have to pull mine out for a listen…..


@haasaaroni just picked up an early RFT ECC81 foil getter (Erfurt 1950’s) at an insane price. Coming from Bulgaria so it will be a wait, but Europe to East Coast is always quicker than I expect it to be.


----------



## haasaaroni (Dec 11, 2022)

shwnwllms said:


> @haasaaroni just picked up an early RFT ECC81 foil getter (Erfurt 1950’s) at an insane price. Coming from Bulgaria so it will be a wait, but Europe to East Coast is always quicker than I expect it to be.


Nice! I have an RFT ECC81 (early 60’s) but unfortunately it’s a bit too noisy in my Pendant. It’s got an amazing sound though.


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/price-reduced-marconi-gec-osram-u709-ez81-very-rare.37157/


This is very tempting…but it’s the most I’ll have ever spent on one tube for the Pendant, and where people report the least audible difference on this amp as well. That’s the only reason I’m a little hesitant.


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> This is very tempting…but it’s the most I’ll have ever spent on one tube for the Pendant, and where people report the least audible difference on this amp as well. That’s the only reason I’m a little hesitant.


It’s a major improvement and worth the $200. It’s the last rectifier you’ll buy


----------



## deej

robo24 said:


> Why not ZMF Caldera? Cheapest of the 3 and is a fantastic pairing with the Pendant. I agree the Susvara would have issues, as the Caldera, which is relatively easy to power, sounds best on the 8ohm socket, can reach "too loud" but without much extra power left to go higher. I've only heard those 3 recently at CanJam. None did much for me but the Caldera grabbed me from the get go.


I kinda forgot to throw the ZMF in there! Though, when I do purchase I've been looking at used sets and the Utopia and LCD-5 squeak in a little cheaper.  I'm sure at some point I'll end up with the Caldera but I figured I'd try something a little different in tuning than the ZMF's!


----------



## deej

steve468 said:


> Just to muddy the waters a bit further, have you thought of a LCD-4? To me, the tight, impactful sound of the Pendant is an amazing match with the warm and detailed LCD-4. I had the Utopia for a time, and while surprisingly similar to the Audeze in a lot of ways, just thought it was…maybe a bit wimpy? Like everything was a bit distant. I’ve never been able to find the words to describe it. I’ve heard the LCD-5, but not on the Pendant, and it sounded like a more complete Utopia, so it might have the same issue? Maybe not, it’s a great headphone that I might have to pick up soon.
> 
> It might just be my ZMF-trained ears (I need THICC everything), but the LCD-4 really comes alive on the Pendant.


I've had someone recommend the LCD-4 to me actually.  I am just a bit hesitant about the weight of them.  I'd be willing to consider them as I'm sure I could sell them for close to what I bought them for if they were too heavy for me.  I'm actually really curious about the Utopia tuning as it's been years since I heard them for the first time and I've had ZMF's for a couple years and used to that tuning.  I loved the VC but I can't take the Atriums off my head.  I love the lush tuning and soundstage of these.  I just thought it would be fun to have a headphone with a higher level of detail and imaging to my collection and with a contrasting tuning to the ZMF's.


----------



## shwnwllms

deej said:


> I've had someone recommend the LCD-4 to me actually.  I am just a bit hesitant about the weight of them.  I'd be willing to consider them as I'm sure I could sell them for close to what I bought them for if they were too heavy for me.  I'm actually really curious about the Utopia tuning as it's been years since I heard them for the first time and I've had ZMF's for a couple years and used to that tuning.  I loved the VC but I can't take the Atriums off my head.  I love the lush tuning and soundstage of these.  I just thought it would be fun to have a headphone with a higher level of detail and imaging to my collection and with a contrasting tuning to the ZMF's.


Now's your chance!

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/audeze-lcd-4-b-stock.37821/


----------



## jonathan c

deej said:


> I've had someone recommend the LCD-4 to me actually.  I am just a bit hesitant about the weight of them.


With the ‘suspension’ headband, the weight of the LCD-4 is distributed very well. In the meantime, get started on this 🤣:


----------



## shwnwllms

deej said:


> I've had someone recommend the LCD-4 to me actually.  I am just a bit hesitant about the weight of them.  I'd be willing to consider them as I'm sure I could sell them for close to what I bought them for if they were too heavy for me.  I'm actually really curious about the Utopia tuning as it's been years since I heard them for the first time and I've had ZMF's for a couple years and used to that tuning.  I loved the VC but I can't take the Atriums off my head.  I love the lush tuning and soundstage of these.  I just thought it would be fun to have a headphone with a higher level of detail and imaging to my collection and with a contrasting tuning to the ZMF's.


If you missed the LCD-4 B-stock from earlier here is a good price on an LCD-5. I'm loving the pairing of the LCD-5 and Pendant SE the more I listen (and you don't have to worry about the weight)

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/audeze-lcd5.37113/


----------



## shwnwllms

My top 3 input tubes (in order of preference)

1. Telefunken ECC801S - 1961
2. Brimar Footscray Triple Mica CV455 - 1956
3. Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate - 1951


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> My top 3 input tubes (in order of preference)
> 
> 1. Telefunken ECC801S - 1961
> 2. Brimar Footscray Triple Mica CV455 - 1956
> 3. Ken-Rad 5814 Pewter Plate - 19


Is the 1960 tungsol black plate D getter 12bh7 #4?


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

That’s what I have rolled in at the moment.


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> Is the 1960 tungsol black plate D getter 12bh7 #4?


No it’s the Brimar Laboratory Sample Triple Mica 6060, but that may change when my RFT ECC81 Single Arm Round Foil Disc Getter arrives from Bulgaria.

I do owe the Tung Sol another listen but the presentation was too “in your face” for long term listening sessions from what I recall.


----------



## shwnwllms (Dec 16, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Is the 1960 tungsol black plate D getter 12bh7 #4?





shwnwllms said:


> No it’s the Brimar Laboratory Sample Triple Mica 6060, but that may change when my RFT ECC81 Single Arm Round Foil Disc Getter arrives from Bulgaria.
> 
> I do owe the Tung Sol another listen but the presentation was too “in your face” for long term listening sessions from what I recall.


I may need to give the Brimar lab sample 6060 another listen as well. It’s basically a prototype of the famous Yellow T’s so it might change things. Being a lab sample it went through more rigorous QC than a production tube

EDIT: @4LoveOfSound Confirmed, Brimar Laboratory Sample 6060 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter rounds out the top 4. They are pretty rare, if you see one definitely pick one up. Wes included it in my starter set and was in his top 3.

My 1959 Tung Sol 12BH7A (BOPDG), while an interesting presentation (it certainly differs from my other input tubes) isn’t my cup of tea. It’s always sounds great at first, but the novelty wears off quickly when the fatigue sets in. It’s too bad, I really wanted to like this tube.


----------



## 1-MiC

I just bought a Woo Audio Wa7 3rd Gen, which will be my first tube experience since selling the Pendant OG 14 months ago. It doesn’t quite bring the same joy the pendant did, but it actually fits on my desk, so I can get it up and away and I know my 2 year old will never grab a hot tube!

Anyways, I was looking for recommendations for the dual 12au7 tubes the Wa7 uses. I haven’t really viewed this thread since the 57 Brimar Footscray made it mark around here, but I’m all caught up now! Very enjoyable to see the evolution of tube combos provided here!

I really loved the footscray 57’ cv4033, it made the most dramatic difference for me in the pendant. I may get a pair for the wa7 as well!

I have a pair of Ken-Rad GE14mm Pewter Plates  "D" Getter Tubes, and another pair with 17mm pewter plates on the way.
Does anyone know what significance od the length of the plates is? Does it correlate to a certain year?


----------



## robo24

1-MiC said:


> I just bought a Woo Audio Wa7 3rd Gen, which will be my first tube experience since selling the Pendant OG 14 months ago. It doesn’t quite bring the same joy the pendant did, but it actually fits on my desk, so I can get it up and away and I know my 2 year old will never grab a hot tube!
> 
> Anyways, I was looking for recommendations for the dual 12au7 tubes the Wa7 uses. I haven’t really viewed this thread since the 57 Brimar Footscray made it mark around here, but I’m all caught up now! Very enjoyable to see the evolution of tube combos provided here!
> 
> ...


Definitely find a pair of EFT ECC82. After the very expensive G73-R it's my next favorite at a fraction of the price.


----------



## shwnwllms

robo24 said:


> Definitely find a pair of EFT ECC82. After the very expensive G73-R it's my next favorite at a fraction of the price.


I think you meant RFT ECC82 😉


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> I think you meant RFT ECC82 😉


Don’t forget the foil getters!


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> Don’t forget the foil getters!


Shhhh. I haven’t secured my back up yet


----------



## 1-MiC

robo24 said:


> Definitely find a pair of EFT ECC82. After the very expensive G73-R it's my next favorite at a fraction of the price.


I also looked at the pair of G73-R, but I’m not sure how much effect rolling tubes has with this amp yet. Or if I love it! It’s definitely not a pendant lol.


----------



## haasaaroni

Okay, anyone seriously interested in going half in on this pair of G73-R’s from Italy? I’m tired of not knowing what I’m missing!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265689952195?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 19, 2022)

They are a game changer and at $350 with testing and returns accepted a fair price!


----------



## shwnwllms

On a separate but related note, I’ve got my hands on a rare Telefunken specimen. One that hasn’t been discussed yet on this thread. Hope to have some impressions in a few days, but might be a bit longer than that due to the holidays. Stay tuned…


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> On a separate but related note, I’ve got my hands on a rare Telefunken specimen. One that hasn’t been discussed yet on this thread. Hope to have some impressions in a few days, but might be a bit longer than that due to the holidays. Stay tuned…


I wonder what it could be.....


----------



## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Those look amazing! You might be hearing the difference between a burnt in pair and a fresh one. The Atrium seems to change a lot with burn in. Congrats!


I have quite a few hours on the Koa now.  They still have more bass and fuller mid bass than my aged cherry.  These brown pads are not as soft as the pads on the aged cherry.  Maybe it has something to do with the pads?  I haven't tried pad swapping yet, too busy enjoying the music!  The bison strap is wider than the lamb skin strap, which I like, but the lamb skin strap is softer and a little more comfortable than the bison strap.  These aren't uncomfortable, but my other set are a little more comfortable between the strap and the pads.


----------



## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> I have quite a few hours on the Koa now.  They still have more bass and fuller mid bass than my aged cherry.  These brown pads are not as soft as the pads on the aged cherry.  Maybe it has something to do with the pads?  I haven't tried pad swapping yet, too busy enjoying the music!  The bison strap is wider than the lamb skin strap, which I like, but the lamb skin strap is softer and a little more comfortable than the bison strap.  These aren't uncomfortable, but my other set are a little more comfortable between the strap and the pads.


I was curious about the bison straps. They look amazing, but also a little stiffer.

Yeah I think the pads have a lot to do with it. I know Resolve (Andrew from headphones.com) is of the idea that most of what people report with burn in is actually the pads wearing down. You could try swapping the pads and seeing if you still hear the Koa version as bassist if you’re really curious.


----------



## shwnwllms (Dec 20, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> I have quite a few hours on the Koa now.  They still have more bass and fuller mid bass than my aged cherry.  These brown pads are not as soft as the pads on the aged cherry.  Maybe it has something to do with the pads?  I haven't tried pad swapping yet, too busy enjoying the music!  The bison strap is wider than the lamb skin strap, which I like, but the lamb skin strap is softer and a little more comfortable than the bison strap.  These aren't uncomfortable, but my other set are a little more comfortable between the strap and the pads.


The bison strap will break in over time. I’ve got one on my VO, give it some time.

I’ve also got brown universe pads so I’ve never bothered to change them mainly due to the aesthetic (plus I’ve heard the BE2 can be a bit forward)


----------



## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> I wonder what it could be.....


I’m not ready to let the cat of the bag quite yet…

…but I will say that I am today years old when I learned the term lagniappe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagniappe


----------



## ThanatosVI

I was sent here on my quest to find the best 12au7 Tubes available. 

I'd appreciate any input you have. 
Which tubes are worth it and a Brief description of their sound Charakter


----------



## shwnwllms

Now that @4LoveOfSound and I have secured our tubes (and backups). I guess it's time to let the cat out of the bag on this one. I'm sure Steve will post some additional impressions later on as well.

Behold the Telefunken ECC83 Selected Tube "Yellow Tip". This is not a production tube, but rather a specimen manufactured for Grass Instruments in Quincy, MA for use in their polygraph machines. Its was built to specific tolerances and underwent additional screening to ensure optimal performance in medical devices with transconductance tightly controlled internally and from tube to tube. 












Brent Jesse has this to say about them. "Watch for the rare Telefunken smoothplates with a cloth label on the glass marked "selected tube". Often these have red painted tips, and watch for blue painted tips, and laboratory grade smoothplates made for Leeds & Northrup as well. These were all screened for critical use in medical equipment, with the "selected tube" or L&N versions being the best. *Grass Instruments also had a yellow tip version which was even lower noise, but they are rare and difficult to find these days. All of the red, yellow, and blue tips are incredibly quiet and very three dimensional in sound*. Incredibly accurate, the amazing sound image emerges out of a dead quiet background. (Note this is word for word how he describes the G73-R, he's careful not to make a direct comparison but his description is identical and this is the only other tube I have seen him describe in this manner)

The yellow tips are virtually extinct at this point, last time Brent had them in stock they ran $275 each. They would likely be more today (by his admission) if he could get his hands on any. Even the red or blue tips are going for more than the remaining 4 yellow tips below.

If you take a look at the tube, it has long smooth plates (indicative of early production Tele's) and a thick O getter. Date code puts mine manufactured in Berlin August of 1966. But what about the sound? It's warm, full, highly detailed and resolving. It reaches deep into the music and pulls out detail like you wouldn't believe. Music seems to envelop you out of the blackest of backgrounds. Low end is perfectly articulated and doesn't overpower but it's there when needed. Highs are sparkly without ever being fatiguing and the mids rich and lush. It's the most well rounded tube I have heard and it simply lets you get lost in the music, in fact it demands your attention. It really shines in its staging though. Stage is vast and 3D. Its hauntingly holographic, with perfectly realistic timbre and decay (notes hang in the air with pinpoint precision dance around the stage). Its beautifully realistic in its staging and presentation.

For those who aren't a believer in Selected Tubes versus production tubes, here is a short read from Tube Maze that puts it more eloquently than I can. (Note this is about the red tips, of which the yellow are rarer and generally thought to be of superior quality)

https://tubemaze.info/telefunken-vs-telefunken-a-story-of-two-tubes/

And here is a deeper dive into the ECC83, which these Yellow Tips hail from. Some of the selected tubes for various manufacturers are discussed. One of my favorite quotes from the article is "You will get a highly neutral ultra complex tube sound, a sound, which needs your attention – it is not a sound were you can read a book, while listening to some music. A Telefunken ECC83 sucks you into the music – and it challanges you." (And he's talking about the production ECC83, not even the Selected Tube "Yellow Tip"

https://medialux.blog/2018/04/25/introducing-a-legend/

Yes, I do realize this sounds like a few of you have described the G73-R, I honestly do wish I had one to compare it to but I haven't had the opportunity yet to roll one in my Pendant SE. Pure speculation but I think the yellow tip shares more in common with a G73-R than a production tube. It may not quite reach the same level as a G73-R but it smokes my ECC801S and its not even close. It doesn't even share the same Tele house sound as their production tubes, which is why I think it may be closer in sound to a G73-R. Medical and Avionics tubes would share similarities in their manufacturing processes (minus the black coating of course which to my understanding shielded the tube from radiation which wouldn't be present in a polygraph machine anyway).

Here is the link, they are $225 a piece. @4LoveOfSound and I each bought a couple so there should be 4 left. Chet is the seller on Reverb, super nice guy. I don't expect these to last long (there are red tips going for more than this on eBay right now and Brent Jesse charges $275 ea for the red/blue tips)

https://reverb.com/item/63902450-ra...3-12ax7-803s-special-labratory-select-medical

Happy Listening!!!


----------



## steve468 (Dec 29, 2022)

shwnwllms said:


> Now that @4LoveOfSound and I have secured our tubes (and backups). I guess it's time to let the cat out of the bag on this one. I'm sure Steve will post some additional impressions later on as well.
> 
> Behold the Telefunken ECC83 Selected Tube "Yellow Tip". This is not a production tube, but rather a specimen manufactured for Grass Instruments in Quincy, MA for use in their polygraph machines. Its was built to specific tolerances and underwent additional screening to ensure optimal performance in medical devices with transconductance tightly controlled internally and from tube to tube.
> 
> ...


Well, you finally got me. I managed to withstand the hype on the G73-R, but this seemed like a nice Christmas present for my Pendant  We’ll see how this stacks up to my go to in the Pendant, a good old Brimar 6060.

I do have a couple red tip, yellow tip , and medical selected tubes, and they all seem to be noticeably better than their standard counterparts. In fact, I have a pair of red-tip Telefunken EL-84 that will probably pair very nicely with this tube. That this was a special run that was THEN tested for higher tolerances is very interesting.

In the meantime, let us know how I your opinion develops, and some good power tube matches! I just need to figure out how you guys find these tubes…


----------



## shwnwllms (Dec 29, 2022)

Chet is down to 1 Yellow Tip. If you’re on the fence and have it carted I wouldn’t think about it too long


----------



## nwavesailor

Nice that you only need one! It may be as good or possibly better than the G73-R............who knows?

If I was looking for a good single 12A** I'd snag it!!!!


----------



## shwnwllms

nwavesailor said:


> Nice that you only need one! It may be as good or possibly better than the G73-R............who knows?
> 
> If I was looking for a good single 12A** I'd snag it!!!!


I’m really hoping at least one of the four he sells today goes to someone with a G73-R so they can make some comparisons.


----------



## nwavesailor (Dec 29, 2022)

I need to get a pair of 12a** to 6SN7 adapters and try the G73-R's in the Envy!

My GF reminded me yesterday that I told her 'this is as good as it gets' with the Pendant, Bigger Ben and now the Envy and the many tube combo's along the way!


----------



## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> Chet is down to 1 Yellow Tip. If you’re on the fence and have it carted I wouldn’t think about it too long


I was one of those people haha but I’m not gonna get it. Got a lot of stuff coming up and I’ll need some extra money for it. I look forward to reading everyone’s impressions that snagged one of these beautiful tubes!


----------



## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> I was one of those people haha but I’m not gonna get it. Got a lot of stuff coming up and I’ll need some extra money for it. I look forward to reading everyone’s impressions that snagged one of these beautiful tubes!


You only live once Aaron 😈


----------



## nwavesailor

When will the yellow tipped beauty show up again........... AND for how much $$$?


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## shwnwllms

Who is the mystery head-fier who has the last one carted?


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## nwavesailor

More importantly, why is it not SOLD, carted or not???


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## shwnwllms

nwavesailor said:


> More importantly, why is it not SOLD, carted or not???


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## nwavesailor

We didn't have this complacency when Wes S was the Pendant MAN!!!!


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## 4LoveOfSound

I'm rocking mine now with my Blackwood VC and it's just stellar!  Really makes these babies sing.  Hands down the best tube I have tried so far which is why I have a spare on the way .


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## 4LoveOfSound

nwavesailor said:


> We didn't have this complacency when Wes S was the Pendant MAN!!!!


True but other than the g73r, Wes' suggestions were about $130 or less.  This gem is almost twice that.  Also, the first ones Shawn and I bought weren't $225.  He lowered the price since then.


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## nwavesailor

I am guilty of buying backups too, but amazingly (or luckily), I have never had to use them. 
I went WAY off the deep end lately and bought quads of 6J5G where a single would have been fine in the event that 1 of the 4 went bad! 

Yes, it IS a disease!!!!


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## shwnwllms

nwavesailor said:


> We didn't have this complacency when Wes S was the Pendant MAN!!!!


I bought Wes’s Pendant SE off him. I feel a certain moral obligation to carry on the tradition


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## 4LoveOfSound

nwavesailor said:


> I am guilty of buying backups too, but amazingly (or luckily), I have never had to use them.
> I went WAY off the deep end lately and bought quads of 6J5G where a single would have been fine in the event that 1 of the 4 went bad!
> 
> Yes, it IS a disease!!!!


Without a doubt!  I have 7 RCA clear glass 12au7 and 5 Ken-Rad 5814 pewter plates. Just in case…


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## 4LoveOfSound

Oh and the RCAs I paid about $25 a piece for 2 years ago, I just saw listed for $99. I might be the reason why 🤣. To justify, my Rogue Audio RH5 uses a pair plus the single in the Pendant SE. So I have to buy extras!


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## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'm rocking mine now with my Blackwood VC and it's just stellar!  Really makes these babies sing.  Hands down the best tube I have tried so far which is why I have a spare on the way .


I really need to give my LCD-5 a turn but I just can’t bring myself to take my VO off my head. I’ve always loved my VO but it’s never sounded anything close to this, I always felt it was slightly laid back and now it’s like I awakened a beast. It’s incredible what this tube is capable of (and I doubt it’s even fully burned in yet)


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## Wes S

shwnwllms said:


> I bought Wes’s Pendant SE off him. I feel a certain moral obligation to carry on the tradition


You have certainly carried on the tradition well.


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## 4LoveOfSound

Wes S said:


> You have certainly carried on the tradition well.


Wes, have you heard a Telefunken 12ax7 smooth plate with or without colored tip?  There certainly wasn't much you hadn't tried with the Pendant!


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## 4LoveOfSound

The last yellow tip is still hanging on!


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## 4LoveOfSound

Now I just need my Norne Skollvarv2 hybrid cable to arrive.  Haven't heard Boo since I ordered on Black Friday.


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## Wes S

4LoveOfSound said:


> Wes, have you heard a Telefunken 12ax7 smooth plate with or without colored tip?  There certainly wasn't much you hadn't tried with the Pendant!


I definitely tried a bunch, but not that one.


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## Dawgfish (Dec 29, 2022)

4LoveOfSound said:


> Now I just need my Norne Skollvarv2 hybrid cable to arrive.  Haven't heard Boo since I ordered on Black Friday.


It took about a month to receive my Norne Drausk.  I ordered towards the end of October and received it shortly before Thanksgiving.  I know they are pretty covered up but you might want to send them an email just to be safe.


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## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> The last yellow tip is still hanging on!


Last Yellow Tip has been sold. Congrats to those who copped today!


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## nwavesailor

On a Holiday week, I'm frankly stunned it took all day to sell.


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## shwnwllms

Todays input tube roll:

RFT ECC81 Single Arm Round Foil Disc Getter

@Wes S discusses the differences in the early RFT ECC81’s here. Based on this I would date mine around 1957 as it has the single arm, round foil disc getter but not the completely rounded top found in the earliest versions. Mine does have a yellow dot on top which also seems to indicate it had undergone additional screening during the manufacturing process. 

https://www.head-fi.org/posts/16609670/


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## shwnwllms

Anyone who bought the Yellow Tips receive theirs today?


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## shwnwllms

One tube to rule them all…


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## nwavesailor

Ah grasshoper................you finally made it to the DARK side!!!!


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## shwnwllms

nwavesailor said:


> Ah grasshoper................you finally made it to the DARK side!!!!


I can’t wait to test it out. It’s snowing here right now though so it’s like an ice cube. It has to warm up to room temperature first before I roll it


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## shwnwllms

Smexy


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## Wes S

shwnwllms said:


> Smexy


Heck yeah man!  Let the fun begin.


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## nwavesailor

Wes knows and I know where your jaw will be VERY soon! 🤪


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## shwnwllms

I’m seeing double…


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## haasaaroni (Wednesday at 12:40 PM)

shwnwllms said:


> I’m seeing double…


Triple 

.....I mean, technically single, but you know what I mean


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## haasaaroni

haasaaroni said:


> Triple
> 
> .....I mean, technically single, but you know what I mean


Ok, having only let this thing burn in for about 7 hours, this little tube is something special. Every song I hear wows me, with its sense of space and reverb, forward depth, blackness of background, smoothness and musicality, precise imaging, detail, bass impact/texture. I think "effortless" is the best word. Worth $500? So far, abso-friggin-lutely.


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## steve468

A new contender arrives...


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## timeslip

I just put mine up for sale, which has under 100hrs on it.  I ended up selling my Verite a while ago, and have not had a use for it.  It comes with a flight case.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...graded-vintage-tubes.39486/#hfc-comment-59021


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## 4LoveOfSound

timeslip said:


> I just put mine up for sale, which has under 100hrs on it.  I ended up selling my Verite a while ago, and have not had a use for it.  It comes with a flight case.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...graded-vintage-tubes.39486/#hfc-comment-59021


That’s not even broken in yet!  Excellent deal on this.


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## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Ok, having only let this thing burn in for about 7 hours, this little tube is something special. Every song I hear wows me, with its sense of space and reverb, forward depth, blackness of background, smoothness and musicality, precise imaging, detail, bass impact/texture. I think "effortless" is the best word. Worth $500? So far, abso-friggin-lutely.


I'll have mine probably Tuesday!  Man I can't wait!!


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## haasaaroni

4LoveOfSound said:


> I'll have mine probably Tuesday!  Man I can't wait!!


I'll be curious to hear your thoughts when you get it! You'd think after all the hype, someone would hear this tube and say "Nah, it's not doing anything special." But I have yet to hear that sentiment about this tube.


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## shwnwllms

haasaaroni said:


> I'll be curious to hear your thoughts when you get it! You'd think after all the hype, someone would hear this tube and say "Nah, it's not doing anything special." But I have yet to hear that sentiment about this tube.


There was this one guy…


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## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> There was this one guy…


Is that right? Well, there goes my theory!

Also, is it just my imagination, or does this tube throw a stage much more "in front" of the listener than other tubes? Even my HD6XX sounds like voices come from a space in front of me, rather than inside my head.


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## 4LoveOfSound

haasaaroni said:


> Is that right? Well, there goes my theory!
> 
> Also, is it just my imagination, or does this tube throw a stage much more "in front" of the listener than other tubes? Even my HD6XX sounds like voices come from a space in front of me, rather than inside my head.


You're not making my wait any easier!  LOL


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## shwnwllms

4LoveOfSound said:


> You're not making my wait any easier!  LOL


Fine. Fine. It sounds like the music is being played through a couple of tin cans, with a string attached and rocks banging around inside. Are you happy now?


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## 4LoveOfSound

shwnwllms said:


> Fine. Fine. It sounds like the music is being played through a couple of tin cans, with a string attached and rocks banging around inside. Are you happy now?


Yes, thank you for the detailed description.  That's the exact sound signature I'm looking for.


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## haasaaroni

shwnwllms said:


> Fine. Fine. It sounds like the music is being played through a couple of tin cans, with a string attached and rocks banging around inside. Are you happy now?


What more do you expect from a tube coated in thick black paint? Total garbage   Doesn't even glow...


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## jonathan c

haasaaroni said:


> What more do you expect from a tube coated in thick black paint? Total garbage   Doesn't even glow...


It could be a Philips ECG ECC82, bought for 15€, painted matte black with Testor’s, touched up for new TFK silkscreen, sold for 500€-600€ (?) by: 

a.  Bangybang
b.  Cartago_delenda_est
c.  Menifee
d.  Other…

🤷🏻‍♂️😳


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## haasaaroni

jonathan c said:


> It could be a Philips ECG ECC82, bought for 15€, painted matte black with Testor’s, touched up for new TFK silkscreen, sold for 500€-600€ (?) by:
> 
> a.  Bangybang
> b.  Cartago_delenda_est
> ...


I can't tell if you're joking    I hope you know I was just riffing off what shwnwllms was saying and am totally kidding.


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## jonathan c

haasaaroni said:


> I can't tell if you're joking    I hope you know I was just riffing off what shwnwllms was saying and am totally kidding.





     🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------

