# How to Get 24 bit 192khz Files From My MacBook Pro To Play Through The DAC Of The Fiio E17



## jacofman

Hi Folks,
   
  I have a beginner's, stupid question to ask. I own the Fiio E17, and intended to use it with my MacBook Pro (late 2011) as the source. I bought some hi-res files from HDTracks.com (24 bit 192 Khz) before I realized that using the USB input on the Fiio E17 will only go up to 24bit 96Khz resolution. The higher resolution needs to use the S/PDIF input on the Fiio E17. So, the question is, how do I play the files I bought using the MacBook Pro as a source through the DAC portion of the E17? If you can't, then how do I play the files some other way to engage the DAC of the Fiio E17? If you could, be VERY concrete in your answer (assuming there is a way to do it)--which types of cable connected to which types of other machines, etc. Thanks so much for your help in advance.
   
  Jacob "Should Have Read The Manual"


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## KraftD1

The E17 takes S/PDIF, your Macbook Pro outputs that from its headphone jack (it is a combo jack, analog & optical out). You need an optical Toslink (S/PDIF) cable that fits the headphone out (3.5 mm) and hook it up to the S/PDIF input on the E17. I believe the Fiio L12 would do the job, but you might want to confirm that.


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## jacofman

Thank you SO MUCH! I just ordered one. All the best,
   
  Jacob


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





kraftd1 said:


> The E17 takes S/PDIF, your Macbook Pro outputs that from its headphone jack (it is a combo jack, analog & optical out). You need an optical Toslink (S/PDIF) cable that fits the headphone out (3.5 mm) and hook it up to the S/PDIF input on the E17. I believe the Fiio L12 would do the job, but you might want to confirm that.


 
  I believe this is the cable KraftD1 is talking about.
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=2


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## jacofman

Thanks, PurpleAngel. I just placed an order with Monoprice on Friday. Should have asked earlier. Will try that as well. All the best,
   
  Jacob


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I believe this is the cable KraftD1 is talking about.
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=2


 
  Not quite, you need a mini to mini toslink for that.
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022903&p_id=1554&seq=1&format=2


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





drsheep said:


> Not quite, you need a mini to mini toslink for that.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022903&p_id=1554&seq=1&format=2


 
  I assumed that the E17 came with a 3.5mm male to Toslink female adapter.
  But I guess the cable your recommending works (MAC to E17) with out the adapter.


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I assumed that the E17 came with a 3.5mm male to Toslink female adapter.
> But I guess the cable your recommending works (MAC to E17) with out the adapter.


 
  True as I just found out from the E17 spec, but any adapter should be avoided whenever possible.


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## thrand1

All,
   
  I can't find a definitive answer online, but I thought the MBP Toslink out was limited to 24 bit 96kHz? If it is, then the OP wouldn't gain much by buying this separate cable...just a different way of getting the signal to the E17.


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





thrand1 said:


> All,
> 
> I can't find a definitive answer online, but I thought the MBP Toslink out was limited to 24 bit 96kHz? If it is, then the OP wouldn't gain much by buying this separate cable...just a different way of getting the signal to the E17.


 
  Most likely, as you really need a highend AMP/DAC go get a true 24/192 out with no down sampling or other sync issues.  But if you already have such an AMP/DAC for 24/192, then there is really no point on hooking it up with the E17...


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## KraftD1

Hadn't considered the MBP's limits on optical output, if it is unable to do 24/196, sorry if my earlier post misled.


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## DrSheep

Quote: 





kraftd1 said:


> Hadn't considered the MBP's limits on optical output, if it is unable to do 24/196, sorry if my earlier post misled.


 
  No worries, you can still get the cable and try it out anyway, as 24/96 vs. 24/192 is VERY HARD to tell apart, especially when your source files are native 24/192.


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## jacofman

Thank you all for helping me out. We'll find out in a few days. I ordered the Fiio cable and it should be here soon. I'll report back on the outcome. I have a nay-saying friend who is convinced that the headphone output on the MacBook Pro is only analog out and NOT digital out, so that no cable will work. It's certainly worth a $12 experiment. Another question.....if the output from the MacBook Pro only goes to 24/96, will it down-sample my 24/192 files and play them at 24/96, or will they turn out to be a useless purchase until I get a better DAC? Just curious.......


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## thrand1

Quote: 





kraftd1 said:


> Hadn't considered the MBP's limits on optical output, if it is unable to do 24/196, sorry if my earlier post misled.


 
   
  Oh, I wasn't trying at all to attack your post- we're all trying to help. It was more I was having difficulty finding a "definitive" spec on that output jack.
   
  To the OP- if you are set on getting 24/192 to the Fiio without any sort of downsampling or manipulation, consider a USB to SPDIF converter. Models like the hiface Two, Peachtree Audio X1, Musical Fidelity VLINK192, etc support a wide family of sample rates (I think the three here support 44.1/48/88.2/176.4/192kHz) and can in partnership with your Mac deliver a bitperfect signal to the E17 for decoding.
   
  A few notes though...these converters run as much if not more than the cost of the E17. Also, if you are using iTunes, I don't believe the audio sampling rate is automatically changed when you play songs of differing rates. You'll need to change the supported bit depth/sampling rate in the Audio MIDI interface, close, and restart iTunes each time. Otherwise, if you have it set for 24 bit/96kHz for example, ALL of your songs may be converted to that before being spit out to the E17. Programs like BitPerfect and Audirvana are around to help perform this "switch" for you, but again they cost more money. Again, I don't own your particular setup, but these are just a few items of note I've come across in my research...
   
  *EDIT TO ADD*
   
  To the OP, I'm pretty sure it will downsample, but not 100% positive- it might not play at all if it exceeds the maximum bit/sample rate available as seen in Audio MIDI. Also see my notes above- you might need to take a few steps to make sure the MBP isn't mucking around with the signal before delivering it to the E17.


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## DrSheep

It should down sample as it is a hardware limitation of the MBP, so getting one of those USB to SPDIF (with the correct spec. as mentioned above) is a must in order to maintain 24/192 stream.


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## KraftD1

Quote: 





thrand1 said:


> Oh, I wasn't trying at all to attack your post- we're all trying to help. It was more I was having difficulty finding a "definitive" spec on that output jack.


 
   
  It's cool, I didn't feel attacked. I was more saying it to the OP, since they ordered the cable right after I posted. Overlooked the limitations of the laptop.


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## MrScratch

I have an iMac (early 2009) updated to Mountain Lion (rel. 10.8.4) and I can confirm on this, I can't go higher than 96KHz/24bit on my machine. The digital output on my computer is 192/24-capable (as with all recent Macintosh machines) however Mac OS X is limited to 96/24 on S/PDIF. If you install Windows Vista/7/8 on Bootcamp you will be able to output the desired hi-res 192KHz/24bit signal through the optical output on your Mac.
   
  I've temporarily set my MIDI Setup to 96/24 to play a 192/24 FLAC file on VLC and a 192/24 ALAC file on iTunes and they are reproduced perfectly fine through my USB-connected E17+E12. I've obtained the same results on my Bifrost+G109 through S/PDIF.
   
  If you want 192/24 bitperfect playback, you need a compatible USB DAC/Converter like the M2Tech Hiface as previously suggested. If you have an AV-receiver, you can get bitperfect playback via HDMI as the HDMI standard supports the 192KHz/24bit resolution (a Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter will suffice).


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## DrSheep

Thanks for the information.  So it was a software but not a hardware limitation as I have guessed, then this also mean there MAYBE a software fix later...


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## jacofman

I got the Fiio L12 optical cable, plugged one end into the headphone jack on my MacBook Pro and the other end into the S/PDIF In on the Fiio E17. I opened up iTunes and played the Hi-Res file that came to mind, and..........the Fiio still says it's playing a 48K 16 bit signal. I can't seem to get the Fiio to show that it's at least playing a 24bit 96Khz signal (even though the AIFF file is 24 bit 192 Khz). I remember  one of you mentioning that I needed to change a setting somewhere in order to get to register the proper resolution. Where exactly is that setting? I tried looking for it under System Preferences>/Sound and under iTunes preferences, and I can't find any setting to change. MrScratch mentioned his MIDI setup--is that a setting on the MacBook Pro, or somewhere else? The same thing happens when I connect the two via USB. It plays the file but it only shows a 48K 16 bit resolution. My understanding is that the Fiio E17 USB resolves up to 24 bit 96 kHz without any additional tweaking.  I know this should work, and it's just a setting away, but I am at a loss as to how to do it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
   
  P.S. Is it possible that
   
  1. My Fiio E17 is defective and doesn't resolve above 16 bit 48 kHz?
  2. My friend is right--the headphone jack on my MBP is only analog-out and is not digital out in any way (optical)?
  3. The Fiio won't downsample my 24 bit 192 kHz files to 24 bit 96khz resolution, so the files are relatively useless for this setup?
   
  Just wondering..........


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## KraftD1

Audio midi setup is standard on the Mac, should come up if you search in spotlight. It is also in 'utilities' IIRC. Should allow you to switch the sample rate. iTunes does have some issues with not automatically adjusting the sample rate between songs if they are at different rates. There are other options for audio playback on the Mac that automatically switch the rate from what I understand. Hope you get things working.


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## jacofman

Thank you SO MUCH! Both forms of connection--USB and S/DIF are registering 24 bit 96 Khz signals on the Fiio. I can definitely hear a difference between the 24 bit 96 kHz  and the 16 bit 48 kHz files. For the first time, everything works. Both formats are downsampling the 24 bit 192 kHz files to 24 bit 96 kHz. Now I have one last question. The files are definitely using the Fiio amplifier for adjusting the volume--the volume control on the MBP is greyed out and unusable. Are the files being processed by the Fiio DAC or the internal MBP DAC? I think it's going through the Fiio DAC, but I'm not sure. Thoughts, anyone? And, as always, thansk so much for your help in advance.


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## KraftD1

The optical cable or USB cable is sending digital to the external Fiio DAC, there it is being converted. Have fun.


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## MrScratch

jacofman said:


> The files are definitely using the Fiio amplifier for adjusting the volume--the volume control on the MBP is greyed out and unusable. Are the files being processed by the Fiio DAC or the internal MBP DAC? I think it's going through the Fiio DAC, but I'm not sure. Thoughts, anyone? And, as always, thansk so much for your help in advance.




You are definitely using the Wolfson DAC on your E17. 

Oh, and tell you friend that all Macintosh computers have an integrated digital input (mic in) and a digital output at least since 2006.


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## jacofman

Since there really is no way to get the Fiio E17 to process 24/192 files from my MBP without spending more money, I thought I would use it with my iPhone 5 out on the road (along with the proper cables--this will only allow me to use the Fiio amp and not the DAC as the "lightning" cable does not do digital audio out). This is better than using the iPhone alone. In it's place at home, I thought about getting the KingRex UD384 (http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-equipment/kingrex-ud384-usb-dac.html#) to use with my MBP, along with the Pure Music/iTunes software package as the interface. This way, I could get the UD384 to convert the files I have to perfect 24bit/192khz, and the KingRex DAC would take things from there--all via USB, or would I have to go through the S/PDIF out (MBP) and in (UD384)? Not sure about that one. How does that combo strike you guys as an alternative to actually play my 24/192 files at full resolution using my MBP? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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## jacofman

Oh, I almost forgot. Cables.......if I have to go the S/DIF route, then it looks like I would have to get a standard RCA S?DIF cable and the use the RCA male on the UD384 end, and use the Fiio adapter (female RCA to "mini") to connect it to my MBP. Does that sound right?


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## MrScratch

Quote: 





jacofman said:


> Since there really is no way to get the Fiio E17 to process 24/192 files from my MBP without spending more money, I thought I would use it with my iPhone 5 out on the road (along with the proper cables--this will only allow me to use the Fiio amp and not the DAC as the "lightning" cable does not do digital audio out).


 
   
  It does, however a specifically compatible peripheral is required, like the Vamp Verza.
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> In it's place at home, I thought about getting the KingRex UD384 to use with my MBP, along with the Pure Music/iTunes software package as the interface.


 
   
  The UD384 is really pricey and I think that using it simply as a USB to Coax converter would be a waste of money. To justify its price tag you should be using it with a hi-end rig. Anyway, at the end of the day it's your money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> This way, I could get the UD384 to convert the files I have to perfect 24bit/192khz, and the KingRex DAC would take things from there--all via USB, or would I have to go through the S/PDIF out (MBP) and in (UD384)?


 
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> Oh, I almost forgot. Cables.......if I have to go the S/DIF route, then it looks like I would have to get a standard RCA S?DIF cable and the use the RCA male on the UD384 end, and use the Fiio adapter (female RCA to "mini") to connect it to my MBP. Does that sound right?


 
   
  As I previously stated, Mac computers are limited to 96KHz/24bit on the S/PDIF digital output socket, the only way to get 192KHz/24bit is through a USB DAC and/or converter. Plus, the KingRex UD384 has no S/PDIF in.
   
  Anyway, you seem a bit confused on the S/PDIF digital audio standard, so I'll give you some insight. S/PDIF uses two separate and definite interconnect types, one being digital coaxial with RCA connectors and the other being digital optical with TOSLINK connectors. These two standards aren't ambivalent and they are NOT compatible.
  Mind you, the S/PIDF digital output on your Mac is optical only, this means that even if the UD384 had coax in you'd still need a converter to get the digital out on your Mac into the digital in of the UD384. The E17 is special as the S/PDIF socket doubles as a optical+coaxial digital port.


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## jacofman

Thanks for your clear explanation, MrScratch. I AM confused and a bit dense when it comes to this technical stuff. I didn't realize until you explained it to me that the KingRex has no S/DIF "in"--only "out" which would make it useless for my needs. Are there any other DAC (or combo units) other than the Vamp Verza that would work to get hi-res files (up to 24/192) from my MBP, convert them properly, and send the analog signal via RCA cables to my tube headphone amp? My thinking in buying the KingRex, incorrect as it was, was that I could use it both with my MBP and in my high-end rig (yes, I am a die-hard audiophile). I don't know how the Vamp Verza sounds. It has to sound good before I'm willing to buy it--functionality comes second to me. The Vamp Verza has the added benefit of being able to use it with both my iPhone 5 and my MBP--but it seems that I cannot use it in my high-end rig. Is there one that would allow me to use it in all three applications? I'd be willing to settle for using it with the MBP and my high-end rig and forget about the iPhone 5 as an option. The Fiio E17 is "good enough" there. Your help is greatly appreciated.


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## MrScratch

Quote: 





jacofman said:


> [...] I thought I would use it with my iPhone 5 out on the road (along with the proper cables--*this will only allow me to use the Fiio amp and not the DAC as the "lightning" cable does not do digital audio out).*


 
  Quote: 





mrscratch said:


> It does, however a specifically compatible peripheral is required, like the Vamp Verza.


 
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> Are there any other DAC (or combo units) other than the Vamp Verza that would work to get hi-res files (up to 24/192) from my MBP, convert them properly, and send the analog signal via RCA cables to my tube headphone amp?


 
   
  Sorry if I was vague as I misled you. The Vamp Verza will downsample all your hi-res files: in fact, it's fixed to 48KHz/16bit on both USB and micro-USB connections. My post was referring to the Lightning capabilities: it is a digital port and you can get digital audio from it, however you need a compatible device like the Vamp Verza or the CEntrance HiFi-M8 to take advantage of this feature. ^^'
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> My thinking in buying the KingRex, incorrect as it was, was that I could use it both with my MBP and in my high-end rig (yes, I am a die-hard audiophile).


 
   
  If you are going to use the UD384 with a proper amp (especially if it is a nice tube amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) there's no need to worry, then. I thought you were going to use it as a USB to coax conveter for the E17 and nothing more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In fact, the UD384 might cover all your home use needs... it can be pushed to extreme sampling rates like 384KHZ/32bit when feeding an amp through the analog outputs (digital coax out is limited to 192KHz/24bit but it's sufficient for an external DAC like the E17), even on Mac computers:
   




... pretty useless high sampling rate right now but you never know...
   
  Paired with a tube amp becomes a pretty nice desktop rig. 
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> Is there one that would allow me to use it in all three applications? I'd be willing to settle for using it with the MBP and my high-end rig and forget about the iPhone 5 as an option. The Fiio E17 is "good enough" there. Your help is greatly appreciated.


 
   
  DAC/AMP combo with Asynchronous USB PC/Mac 192KHz/24 support + USB iPhone 192KHz/24bit support + L/R analog outputs? Sorry but nothing is coming to my mind right now, maybe some more experienced users might join in and give you some more advices.


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## jacofman

Now that I think about it, the KingRex won't work in my hi-end rig because there's nothing but USB "in"--no S/DIF or coax "in". I could only use it with USB (MBP) and not my modified Sony Blu-Ray player (toslink out). Not a wise purchase if I want it to work in both rigs. So, I have another "beginner's" question:
   
  1. It sounds like from the discussion above that most Hi-Rez USB DAC's really don't work with the MBP straight out because of the MBP's limitations on both USB and S/DIF "out" to 24bit/96khz. You'd have to get a USB to S/DIF converter and then send the signal to a Hi-Rez DAC to get true 24/192 or higher resolution. Is that correct? If so, then why don't the DAC manufacturers make that clear? Its seems like false advertising (Fiio included, but only the USB portion) that tout their products to play 24/192 files when you need another expensive box to convert the file into usable form. Is it just on Mac computers that this problem exists and not on Windows or other computers? Again, it seems like false advertising to claim they are "Mac" compatible, but only up to 24/96 and not beyond. I hope none of the above is true and I've just got it wrong--most Hi-End USB DAC's "do" play 24/192 files straight out of USB.
   
  2. I'm now thinking of getting the Asus Zonar Essence One Plus Edition DAC/Amp (https://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One_Plus_Edition#overview). It has all the inputs and outputs I need and I've heard through the grapevine that it sounds pretty sweet, too (especially with the option to roll the op-amps). Would it also be true that I would need a USB to S/DIF converter unit to make the Asus usable with my Hi-Rez computer files?
   
  I'm learning a tremendous amount from this discussion. Thanks to all who participated.


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## MrScratch

Quote: 





jacofman said:


> 1. It sounds like from the discussion above that most Hi-Rez USB DAC's really don't work with the MBP straight out because of the MBP's limitations on both USB and S/DIF "out" to 24bit/96khz.


 
   
  While it's true that Mac computers are limited to 96Khz/24bit on the digital S/PDIF output, the sample rate limit "issue" on USB is standard-related and it affects PCs and Linux distros, too. You see, the USB standard identifies audio devices in different classes depending on their characteristics. Depending on the defining class, an audio device may be able to process different sampling rates up to 96KHz/24bit (Audio Class 1 compliant) or even up to 384KHz/32bit (Audio Class 2 compliant). A manufacturer may decide to adhere to one of these classes and/or it may opt for a proprietary driver (which isn't really cost effective in many cases). The Audio Class 1 compliant is supported by Windows, OS X and Linux distros natively and it doesn't require any additional driver. Recent OS X and Linux operating systems support USB Audio Class 2 natively without extra drivers.
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> You'd have to get a USB to S/DIF converter and then send the signal to a Hi-Rez DAC to get true 24/192 or higher resolution. Is that correct?


 
   
  Not really, as I previously stated it depends on the choices made by the manufacturer. The M2Tech hiFace DAC is USB Audio Class 2 compliant, it's 384Khz/32bit capable and it has a 3.5mm analog output instead of the digital coaxial socket mounted on the hiFace Two (the hiFace Two is a converter). Same goes for the KingRex UD384.
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> 2. I'm now thinking of getting the Asus Zonar Essence One Plus Edition DAC/Amp (https://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One_Plus_Edition#overview). It has all the inputs and outputs I need and I've heard through the grapevine that it sounds pretty sweet, too (especially with the option to roll the op-amps). Would it also be true that I would need a USB to S/DIF converter unit to make the Asus usable with my Hi-Rez computer files?


 
   
Giving credit to everything I've written above, I think that the Essence One is only capable of 96Khz/24bit on Macs and it uses a driver (ASIO drivers I think) on PCs to reach the 192KHz/24bit sampling rates through USB.




  It seems I was cleary wrong, a review on another site demonstrated that the Essence One is USB Audio Class 2 compliant as Mac computers recognise it instantly allowing hi-res sampling rates up to 192KHz/24bit.
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> then why don't the DAC manufacturers make that clear? Its seems like false advertising (Fiio included, but only the USB portion) that tout their products to play 24/192 files when you need another expensive box to convert the file into usable form. Is it just on Mac computers that this problem exists and not on Windows or other computers? Again, it seems like false advertising to claim they are "Mac" compatible, but only up to 24/96 and not beyond. I hope none of the above is true and I've just got it wrong--most Hi-End USB DAC's "do" play 24/192 files straight out of USB.


 
   
  I think that nobody can aswer this. 
   
  Quote: 





jacofman said:


> I'm learning a tremendous amount from this discussion. Thanks to all who participated.


 
   
  And everyone is willing to help so it's a WIN-WIN situation, right?


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## jacofman

So to summarize what you've said:
   
  1. Both the M2Tech HiFace DAC and the KingRex UD384 "WILL" play my 24/192 files directly from the USB out on my MBP without any additional equipment needed because they are both USB Audio Class Two compliant.
   
  2. The Asus Xonar Essence One is NOT USB Audio Class Two compliant, and therefore would not serve much purpose to me if my goal is to play the 24/192 files as simply as possible.
   
  3. I could not use either one (M2Tech or the KingRex)  in my high end room system because the Sony Blu-ray player only has an optical (toslink) out and neither one of the two DAC's mentioned has an optical "in".
   
  4. For computer use, they are both fine and I could send the "computer-based" hi-rez files to my home system via each of their respective output formats--mini to RCA for the M2Tech and "RCA to RCA" for the KingRex--or, to my tube headphone amp via the same connections. 
   
  This might be a stretch, but do you know either one of these units and do you know how they actually sound? I am going to assume from the reviews (no personal experience) that the KingRex sounds better. It seems to be designed for an audiophile audience. Plus it has the USB to S/DIF converter to send  hi-rez files to other DACs in case I want to get a separate DAC for my home system.
   
  Thanks for teaching me about this complicated, highly technical world of digital audio.


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## MrScratch

1. Yup, that's how they work.
   
  2. That's my assumption, in fact I'm not sure of that as I've never used a Essence One and I can't find any info about OS X support. Asus doesn't advertise it, they just say that _"The Essence One supports Mac OS X 10.8 or later version without any driver needed."_ So it seems I was clearly wrong, a review on another site has demonstrated that the Essence One is USB Audio Class 2 compliant as Mac computers recognise it instantly allowing hi-res sampling rates up to 192KHz/24bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't know if I can post the link to the review, however a screenshot clearly shows the Essence One recognised in Audio MIDI Setup as "Speaker" with all the supported sampling rates (from 44.1KHz to 192KHz @ 16&24bit).
   
  3. Right.
   
  4. You are right again.
   
  (5.) Sorry but I never had the chance to listen any of them so I can't comment on that. Anyway, now I stand corrected: you can get a Xonar Essence One and live happily with that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  It should be noted that the reviewer said he used a MacBook Pro Retina with Mountain Lion (10.8.x) and you said you have a late 2011 MacBook Pro which was shipped with Lion (10.7.x). If you decide to get a Essence One and your OS doesn't recognise it, you can buy the latest OS directly from the app "App Store" in your Applications directory for $ 20. It's a huge installer (about 4 gigs) and it will take about 45mins to complete the update. Don't worry, the update won't format the hard drive and all your files will be still there (like in Windows systems with a multi-parititioned hard disk and a OS-only partition).


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## jacofman

MrScratch, thanks for all your help. I've decided to get the Asus Xonar Essence One Plus Edition (http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One_Plus_Edition/#overview)
  as my final choice. It has great features, supposedly great sound (that one can change even further by "rolling" the op-amps in the kit they include) from audiophile review sites, and the price is right. I'll report back when I get it what it "sounds" like. Thanks again to all of you who helped me understand the technical stuff so that I could make an informed decision. That's what this forum is all about, right?


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## jacofman

I had another observation which leads to a question. I noticed that in playing some hi-res files (24/192) through the Fiio E17 and my AKG K702's, the music sounded very different when listening to the USB output vs the S/PDIF optical output. The optical had more of the room ambience on acoustic music, more defined dynamics,  more detail in the mids and highs, and each instrument had more body and weight than it did playing the same cuts through the USB output.
   
  1. I wondered if I was losing my "golden ears" and my mind and just making up these differences;
   
  2. There are actually differences explained by the fact that in S/PDIF you're getting the pure digital signal and bypassing the MBP's internal DAC and amplifier. You're hearing only the Fiio DAC and amp, both of which should theoretically should sound better than the MBP's or there would be no reason to buy and outboard amp and DAC.
   
  3. It's strictly a function of the "sound" of the Fiio's different inputs. On another DAC, they might sound the same or the reverse of what I described above.
   
  4. The "USB DAC" phenomenon is just a marketing ploy to get people to buy DACs but S/PDIF has always sounded better for some reason that I can't articulate and don't understand.
   
  Any ideas?


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## thrand1

I'm not as well versed on the technical side of things, but in most cases, when using the USB connector, a USB "receiver" (Tenor TE7022L) has to be used to translate the signal to something recognizable by the E17 DAC. Depending on how the FiiO is implemented (one review seems to say there is even another transceiver chip between the Tenor USB receiver chip and the DAC), the S/PDIF input signal might not have to go though "as much"/any transformation before being fed to the DAC. So having an extra "chip" in the path could lead to some differences in perceived signal level, volume or otherwise.
   
  One thing I would point out- regardless of whether you use USB or SPDIF, your Mac is not doing any internal decoding or amplifying- both methods should deliver a raw digital/bitstream signal to the FiiO. One might have a higher volume level than the other after conversion, but I have no way of verifying that.
   
  What you're noticing is often reported by users of DACs with multiple inputs- there is a DAC from Chord (the Qute, maybe?) whose entry level model is reported to sound much better on the SPDIF input versus the USB input. But there may be DACs where the USB input has had more attention to it so it might be better than the SPDIF, etc etc.


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## brhfl

Quote: 





thrand1 said:


> One thing I would point out- regardless of whether you use USB or SPDIF, your Mac is not doing any internal decoding or amplifying- both methods should deliver a raw digital/bitstream signal to the FiiO. One might have a higher volume level than the other after conversion, but I have no way of verifying that.


 
  It is worth noting, however, that if the software being used doesn't automatically switch the output sample rate, and the output sample rate differs from the source media, the Mac _will_ resample the audio, on the fly. I know the importance of switching this was already stressed, but I think it's a bear worth repeating. Rowr!


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## MrScratch

I took the time to make some tests.
 I've tested USB and TOSLINK inputs with my iMac. I used iTunes as my main source with ALAC files ripped in XLD at the original sampling rates of the CDs.
 The test tracks I've used are as follows:
 Mirrorball - The Seldom Seen Kid - Elbow
 The Night Will Always Win - Build a Rocket Boys - Elbow
 Hope - Cult - Apocalyptica
 Coleen - Great Vengeance and Furious Fire - The Heavy
 Shun - Sanmon Gossip - Shiina Ringo
 I Believe - Keep The Faith - Bon Jovi
 Give Life Back To Music - Random Access Memories - Daft Punk

 All the tracks are sampled at 44.1KHz @ 16 bit.

 First of all, I made sure the Audio MIDI setup would keep the same sampling rate while I was switching back and forth between USB and S/PDIF inputs. Since on S/PDIF the master volume is set at a fixed value, I obviously maxed out the USB master volume as well.
  
 My test setup:
 - iMac -> TOS (L12) -> FiiO E17 @ +0dB;
 - iMac -> USB (bundled cable) -> FiiO E17 @ +0dB;
 - iMac -> TOS (L12) -> FiiO E17 -> LO Bypass (+L7) -> FiiO E12;
 - iMac -> USB (bundled cable) -> FiiO E17 -> LO Bypass (+L7) -> FiiO E12.
  
 Aaaand... I didn't find any difference worth mentioning. On a track in particular (Coleen) I thought the S/PDIF had the edge in clarity, however further listening proved I'm unable to tell a damn difference. 
 Plugging the E17 in the Apple Keyboard USB socket didn't make any noticeable difference.
  
 @jacofman: Have you tried different USB ports? Did you set the two outputs at the same sampling rate (96KHz/24bit in your scenario)?


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## jacofman

Thanks so much for taking the time to test out my impressions (hallucinations). You were quite thorough and as suspected, there were no discernible differences between the different digital formats. You played a variety of different types of music, and that's good. What I heard was subtle, but definitely felt like a small difference in favor of S/PDIF. The volumes were equal and the resolutions were the same across the board. Nothing changed except the form of output to the Fiio. I wouldn't worry about it. It's so subtle it's not worth pursuing. Another weird thing that happened is that sometimes (rarely) the Fiio didn't show up in one of the two USB ports on my MBP. The one closest to the front of the computer consistently registered the Fiio, and the one closest to the back of the computer occasionally wouldn't show it in the list. Perhaps it was just a bad connection or the USB cable (which came with the Fiio) didn't make a solid connection. 
   
  Have you given any thought to the idea that the USB cable makes a difference? Some people (Moon Audio) are selling "audiophile" USB cables. You think it's a bunch of crap, or is there something to it. I'm a firm believer in the notion that cables make a "huge" difference in my home audiophile rig. Night and day differences sometimes. Any thoughts?


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## MrScratch

I won't question the influence of this kind of cables on the sound, however I think it all comes down to how much this difference *audible*.
Sometimes the differences are so subtle that they might be really hard to notice. It all depends on how much you value the little increments in SQ.


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## Billheiser

Subtle differences might be due to small volume differences. Unless you used precise (measured) volume matching, source x will tend to sound better than source y if it's even a hair louder.
"...had more of the room ambience on acoustic music, more defined dynamics, more detail in the mids and highs, and each instrument had more body and weight " -- that would also be what you experience with slightly increased volume.


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## Dev Caj

I know this is from years ago, but I tried doing this exactly and the output states 24 bit yet my Fiio still says 16bit 48k. I dont know what to do here or if its the new MacBP 2016. Its apples newest model and im using the VOX player to play the FLAC file. Im stuck. Is it my headphones? Is it the USB cord? please help!


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