# Musical Fidelity V-LINK USB SPDIF



## hawkhead

Looks quite interesting
   
  release next month £100, async and no drivers
   
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-LINK/v-link.asp


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## ninjikiran

sexy....


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## Justin Uthadude

Just got on a waiting list. Shipping looks like Valentine's day timeframe.


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## lmf22

Any idea when it will be released in the U.S.?  Music Direct's website says "Coming Late January '11" but it's already February.  Audio Advisor said they don't have an estimate.


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## leeperry

that's a funny company, there's no email address available on their website...the only form available is for the newsletter, and it's clearly stated that they delete any non-newsletter enquiry. I'm sorry to be interested in your product and have questions to ask, duh.


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## Justin Uthadude

Everyone I've called has said 2 weeks. Just pre-ordered one from Audio Advisor. This is what I've been waiting for. Asynch, 2 clocks, no drivers, 24/96, <$200. (Thanks to Lee already have my usb isolator [which registers zip on the gauss-o-meter]) Here's the email if anyone is interested:
   
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Hi Robin,[/size][/size]*
   
*[size=medium][size=12pt]    We are taking pre-orders for the V-Link, which we expect to be VERY popular.  We will get them as soon or sooner than anyone else in the USA and expect them to be here within the next couple weeks.  We won't charge your card until your unit ships if you would like to order now.  You can call me on my personal toll-free direct at 866.984.0676 if you would like to place an order or have any other questions.  This relatively inexpensive unit can make a big upgrade to USB digital music![/size][/size]*
   
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Regards,[/size][/size]*
   
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Tim Hahn[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]AUDIO ADVISOR[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]3427 Kraft SE[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Grand Rapids[/size][/size]*, MI 49512
*[size=medium][size=12pt]866.984.0676 (toll-free direct)[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]616.885.9840 (local direct)[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]THahn@AudioAdvisor.com[/size][/size]*
   
*[size=medium][size=12pt]My Regular Hours are (Eastern Time):[/size][/size]*
   
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Monday: 9 AM to 7 PM[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Tuesday: 9 AM to 6 PM[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Wednesday: 9 AM to 6 PM[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Thursday: 9 AM to 6 PM[/size][/size]*
*[size=medium][size=12pt]Friday: 9 AM to 3 PM[/size][/size]*


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## K3cT

Keeping track of this thread.


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## lmf22

The V-Link is now available on Amazon and Music Direct. 
   
  Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Musical-Fidelity-V-LINK-SPDIF-Converter/dp/B004PH03GU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1299135051&sr=1-1
   
  Music Direct link: http://www.musicdirect.com/product/89602


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## Mad Max

Cheap-looking RCA output.  No BNC?
   
  Anyone with impressions yet?


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## Justin Uthadude

Mine should arrive FedEx this afternoon. I'll give some initial impressions tomorrow


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## leeperry

It'd be great if you could try to pass-through AC3/DTS, and some shots of the inside would be super sweeet.


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## Mad Max




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## googleborg

available here in the UK for £90
   
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4917&md=093c86fe37d5ee2aa71d960ef6be6aed
   
  and inside shots would be very nice indeed


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## googleborg

i am confused as to exactly what problem it is they solve


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## leeperry

googleborg said:


> i am confused as to exactly what problem it is they solve


 

 "the evil J from outer space"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...but I don't see how they can output a jitter-free(as if such thing existed) S/PDIF signal when using the dirty computer power. And when I see what's in their DAC's, I remain dubious until proven otherwise: http://www.ippinkan.com/m1_dac_musicalfidelity.htm
   
  and they use a single clock for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples...if it can pass-through AC3/DTS, a friend of mine might pull the trigger and I'll get to try it.


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## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> ...and they use a single clock for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples...


 


  Where did you read that Lee? The ComputerAudiophile hands on report says. "Two fixed oscillators, one for rates based on 44.1 kHz and the other for rates based on 48 kHz is also the hallmark of a smart design". Are we talking about the same piece of gear?


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## leeperry

Their tech-support told me "_It does not use two discrete clocks for 44.1kHz and 48kHz multiples like on the Hiface_."
   
  Anyway, they were unable to tell me if it could pass-through AC3/DTS, so maybe you could crack it open and shoot a few pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And here, Steve N. said that measuring SNR in order to show the jitter impact simply wasn't a practical solution: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/446451/jitter-measurement#post_6724559
   
  But what *truly* matters is how it sounds to you? and compared to what?


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## Justin Uthadude

I'm at work and the FedEx website still says 'on truck for delivery'. I don't play surround sound or watch videos, but I'll grab a couple dts files and try to figure out how to play them to see if it works. I don't care about the jitter measurements, I just want to see if asynch sounds better than regular usb and see what the 24/96 fuss is all about, since my dac's usb input only does 16bit. As for the 'dirty' power on my laptop's battery - I'm galvanized baby.


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## BrightSpark

Well, even my el cheapo Envy24HT s/card has got two separate crystals, doesn't sound too promising if the V-link only has one.  But I suspect there's quite few folk waiting on some "real world" feedback on how this gizmo performs.
   
  As a Linux user I've passed on the hiface.  Even though the V-link is limited to 24bit/96Khz it is supposed to be driverless and work under any OS so it does give some folk a chance to see if "asynch USB"  really is "the one" without costing an arm and a leg.  It's an itch I'd like to scratch.
   
  Hope to hear more about it soon ...


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## Wood

Just listening to the V-link now.
   
  Running it through an old dacmagic II it sounds very good. The improvements are, more balance, clean deeper bass, improved soundstage positioning. Also much smoother but very clear.
   
  Can only see one clock though.


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## leeperry

pics! thanks! no components at the back of the PCB?
   
  got any other transport to compare it against?


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## Wood

Nothing on the back,
   
  At the moment can only compare to a sony cdp-xe330, optical out. But the v-link sounds closer to my Rega Planar 3 than the musiland usd which was to bright and synthetic for my taste. 
   
  The v-link is richer in the lower mids without being congested. More analogue if you like.
   
  Running on a msi wind, its prone to the occasional pop and crackle if you do other things other than just playing music.
   
  Its seems to improve PRaT, 
   
  Running in foobar with asio4all.


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## leeperry

ok, sounds great! any chance you could try AC3/DTS pass-through please?


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## Wood

AC3/DTS bypass?


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## leeperry

yup sending 5.1 AC3/DTS over S/PDIF, instead of PCM stereo. You'd need some sort of hometheater receiver, though.


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## Wood

Sorry I don't have any facility for 5.1 here.
   
  Listening to the v-dac some more now, strikes me more and more just how analogue it sounds. The dacmagic 2 always sounded typically digital, a touch strident and harsh in the highs, but with the v-link transport it sounds richer and smoother but still clear.


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## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





wood said:


> it sounds very good. The improvements are, more balance, clean deeper bass, improved soundstage positioning. Also much smoother but very clear.


 
   
  My thoughts exactly.
   
  I'm thrilled so far. Listened 'til about 1am this morning. Seems to give my K501's more bass and my Sennheisers more soundstage. Don't know what to attribute it to- asynch or s/pdif, but it feels like a definite winner. Plug and play. Only gave it a few minutes on foobar, since I've been using Mediamonkey4 beta with wasapi mostly now. No glitches there or with XMplay. Only problem was when I tried KS. It didn't work.
   
  @leeperry  Now I see what you were talking about with galvanic isolator heat. I never had a problem with it heating up before, but now I do. My dac has a dedicated power supply so no power was flowing through the isolator, but now with the v-link in between which uses usb power, it gets hot. Took out the v-link and unplugged the ps from the dac so it then used the usb power and the isolator got hot. Now I'm running usb>v-link>dac and it sounds great without it.


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## BrightSpark

Thanks for the pic Wood.  Unless it's hiding, there does seem to be only one xtal, but it looks like it's labeled XT2, which is curious.  What number is written on the Xtal's metal case?
   
  Now  I'm wondering where that info about "two separate clocks came from". Surely review version of this gizmo weren't sent out with two in them, only for production models to be cut to one with one family of freqs being synthed? What is IC3, an opamp?
   
  Now the question is does anyone have Linux to see if the device is correctly detected and how it is reported with a "lsusb -v" at the command line.
   
  Anyway, I'm glad you like it, souding closer to a Rega Planar 3 cannot be bad. I have that TT, not that it's used these days, but can't see myself selling it.
   
   
  I guess comparisons with the hiface may surface at some stage.


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## leeperry

justin uthadude said:


> Now I see what you were talking about with galvanic isolator heat. I never had a problem with it heating up before, but now I do. My dac has a dedicated power supply so no power was flowing through the isolator, but now with the v-link in between which uses usb power, it gets hot. Took out the v-link and unplugged the ps from the dac so it then used the usb power and the isolator got hot. Now I'm running usb>v-link>dac and it sounds great without it.


 

 Oh indeed, ADuM5000 is said to get really warm when providing power.
   
  Anyway, I don't see any pulse transformer or ferrite bead...or maybe "FB1" does the job?
   
  I'd appreciate if you could run an AC3/DTS test please, as you previously mentioned.
  


brightspark said:


> I'm wondering where that info about "two separate clocks came from". Surely review version of this gizmo weren't sent out with two in them, only for production models to be cut to one with one family of freqs being synthed? What is IC3, an opamp?


 

 A good rule of thumb is to never believe a single word of what's written on computeraudiophile.com(the website that said that there are two discrete clocks).
   
  swappable DIP8 packages are often used for updatable firmwares, like in in the HRT thingies: http://static1.headfonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/hrt_streamer_IIplus_07.jpg
   
  Does that mean that they've licensed their async USB technology from HRT? maybe, maybe not. But I think I can see the same TI USB controller...and quite honestly, writing firmware for this chip does seem to take rocket science. WaveLength seems to be asking for HUGE license fees(look at the Halide), so HRT looks like a more viable async USB solution provider.


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## Wood

For the record, I find I am gravitating towards the coax output, through my ESL63 speakers it sounds more open than the opt out. I am not hearing anything that might be attributed to noise from the laptop. I am not tempted to stick a TX in the box just yet, that FB1, that looks like a ferrite bead, might be doing the job.
   
  Lots of room in that box for modding, but for the moment it doesn't sound like it needs anything doing.
   
  A few hours on it now, really sounds very analogue, like a nos dac but with extension and dynamics.
   
  I think comparison to other async devices on very high end systems would be needed to discover if the v-link has any limitations, on my temporary rig it is indispensable.


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## leeperry

well, duh FB1 = Ferrite Bead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  HRT claim galvanic isolation over USB in their own dongles anyway.
   
  It would have been interesting to know what the voltage regulator is...just for the record.
   
  I'll eagerly await Justin's feedback on pass-through, and will make my friend pull the trigger depending on the outcome. The TAS chip datasheet seems to mention that AC3's supported.


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## BrightSpark

Wood is listening over ESL63's ... I'm impressed.   Anyway, look's like someone somewhere got their line's crossed on the "two oscillator" thing.
   
  I cannot make out the marking on the top of the xtal, and being an electronics numpty doesn't help. I notice the blurb on MF's website says ...
   
  "_Extreme attention has been paid to all the detailed programming to ensure rock solid consistency. The low jitter power supply feeds an ultra high precision clock which is positioned almost on top of (in PCB terms at least) the V-Link’s vital components. This achieves extremely short tracks and ultra accurate clocking..._."
   
  How do you know if the xtal is an "_ultra high precision clock_" ?  Or is it just the of same standard as those on my cheap envy24ht s/card for example? I'm not qualified to judge whether that para is pure bs or not.
   
  In trying to bridge the gap between "marketing speak" and real world use, it's your feedback which is NB. Keep it rolling ...


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## Justin Uthadude

Lee-
  I don't know what I'm doing, but I downloaded this dts file and vlc and it plays fine. I don't have a home theater receiver. Does that help?


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## Mad Max

Did you use FFDShow?
  Did you select the digital formats under _Output_ > _Pass-through_?
  Did you use Reclock with WASAPI output for bit-perfect output?


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## googleborg

thanks for the internal shot wood


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## googleborg

also i am guessing one of the ICs can produce it's own clock...hence the need for only one xtal


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## googleborg

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/dit4096.html
   
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tas1020b.html
  "On-chip adaptive clock generator (ACG) supports asynchronous, synchronous and adaptive synchronization modes for isochronous endpoints"
   
  IC3 is possibly some kinda eeprom or something?
   
   
  edit...looking closer i can see a bunch of ceramic resonators (stumpy legged things), they are the source for the second freq?


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## BrightSpark

IC3 is some kind of eeprom - a 24LC????.. The single 6MHz xtal on the pcb (H6.000L0) is connected to the TAS1020B USB stream controller. So computeraudiophile were wrong and the MF marketing blurb is basically correct. But as to it being an "ultra high precision clock" is another question.
   
  What do you think the components are worth? If the Chineses made it, which they probably do, and if they had designed and sold it, and it didn't have MF on the box, what would it cost?
   
   
  Still, it's all in the listening.


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## Wood

I wouldn't get too hung up on the component costs, my musiland usd async device from china cost about the same as the v-link. Its the software we are paying for with these devices, so a 20 dollar clone without the contents of that eprom would simply not work.  On the musiland forum software updates were the main issue when it came to the sound signature of the device, many preferred earlier drivers to later ones. All we need is a device that reduces jitter, not a device that manipulates the data stream to suite the ears of the software designer, its worst than using jittery usb IMHO.
   
  What strikes me, about the v-link, is that the discrete components are through the hole type, I am used to seeing SMD components almost without exception in the digital domain esp that involves high freq signaling.
  Strange as well, although the v-link sounds very nice, very analogue (balanced) to my ears, where are the two 'super accurate clocks' to account for this? Who is hyping who?
   
  What ever is going on, either marketing bull, or some breakthrough design, its sounds pretty good to me as a substitute hq cdp esp for that price. It will,do the job for a couple of years until the next greatest device pops onto the market. In the meantime the v-link has injected new life into an old dacmagic 2 that was otherwise collecting dust.
   
  This is a digital device, more computer that audio, and so like everything else in computer land I guess we will have to get used to upgrading these type of components every 2 or 3 years


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## BrightSpark

Your are probably right not to be too obessive about component costs etc., but I 'd like to think that taken as a whole the V-Link was fair VFM.  
   
  The big plus is that the V-link effectively needs no OS drivers,  Musiland or the new KingReX 192 convertor all seem to have had/have their software glitches as did the M2tech's hiface, who incidently at one time promsied Linux drivers but then appeared to have adaboned the idea. 
   
  "Through the hole" mounting can add to pcb production cost, but I'm not sure what else can be read into that, apart from it may have been partly dictated by the size of the components used, like the resistors. 
   
  In some senses the V-Link is already obsolete, no "USB audio 2" compatabilty, and limted to 24bit/96KHz.  But you don't necessarliy need the latest and greatest just a well engineered solution based on tried and tested ICs wiht a bit of innovative progamming thrown in.  If comparsion with other converters, say a Halide bridge, within the 24/96Khz limit are favourable then MF can claim to have a done good job. And it is readily availbale in the UK.


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## tpaxadpom

Is V-link sensitive to the choice of USB cable? One can speculate that being an async converter it can care less for the cable quality as long as packets reach the destination but on the other side it gets the power from USB bus.


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## Justin Uthadude

I have switched between a middle of the road Kimber that I have and the throw-away cable I got the other day when I ordered a case to house an external usb drive and I can't tell the difference. My headamp has 3 inputs and a selector switch on the front so I was thinking of getting a toslink cable to a/b the outputs, but I can't picture it being better.


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## tpaxadpom

Thanks Justin. Did you order yours from Audio Advisor? My local MF distributor doesn't carry them but can order one though I won't be able to return it in case I don't like it.


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## Justin Uthadude

Yes. Audio Advisor. See post #6.
  Been listening all weekend and I must say this was the best $169 I've spent in a long time.


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## lmf22

Just thought I should chime in and give some of my impressions of the V-Link.  I received mine two days ago (ordered through Amazon with the Prime membership's second-day shipping).  I agree with all the impressions that others gave.  The sound is very open (large soundstage), relaxed, and very good deep bass and plenty of it.  There is a lot of details in the treble, and it is very smooth.  I did not notice fatigue after at all.  I noticed improvements across the frequency range, compared to what I had before (see my system description below).  I compared the optical and coaxial outputs and did not notice any difference.  But since coaxial it theoretically better I will just stay with that.  I was going to get a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable, but based on Justin Uthadule's comment that there is no difference, maybe I should just put the money towards a coaxial cable upgrade.  I really like this converter.  It improved my computer listening experience. 
   
  My system: Windows 7 64-bit --> iTunes (MP3s of various quality and ALAC) --> V-Link --> Meier-Audio StageDAC (filter to get top switch position; 8X oversampling, bottom switch position) --> Luxman P-200 headphone amp --> Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm.  Before the V-Link, I used the Juli@ soundcard with optical output.
  Cables: Belkin Gold Series USB, Stereovox XV2 coaxial, Van den Hul Optocoupler MKII, Transparent The Link analog between DAC and headphone amp.  I plan to replace the XV2 coaxial cable with the Black Cat Veloce (designed by the same guy who designed the XV2 and XV-Ultra; its sound quality supposed to be somewhere between the XV2 and the XV-Ultra but cheaper than what the XV2 originally cost).


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## dookie182

really interesting thread, thank you very much guys and keep the impressions comming.
  by the way lmf22, how does the v-link compare to the juli soundcard? could you give us a quick comparaison.
  best regards
  Q


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## lmf22

Quote: 





dookie182 said:


> really interesting thread, thank you very much guys and keep the impressions comming.
> by the way lmf22, how does the v-link compare to the juli soundcard? could you give us a quick comparaison.
> best regards
> Q


 

 In my previous post, I was comparing the V-Link to the Juli@ soundcard's optical output, using the Van den Hul Optocoupler MKII cable.  "The sound is very open (large soundstage), relaxed, and very good deep bass and plenty of it.  There is a lot of details in the treble, and it is very smooth.  I did not notice fatigue after at all.  I noticed improvements across the frequency range, compared to what I had before."
   
  Beyond what I said before, compared to the Juli@, the V-Link has smoother treble (hat's probably what led to the non-fatigue sound).  Due to the increased soundstage of the V-Link, I found it easier to separate the different instruments.  I also really like the mid-range (e.g., vocals) with the V-Link.  It has more body, while the mid-range on the Juli@ sounded thinner.  The V-Link just sounds more analog.  The Juli@ is quite good, but the V-Link is a bit beyond that.  The difference isn't night and day, but the more I listen with the V-Link the more I like it.  I think the V-Link is a good deal at $169.  I believe the Juli@'s retail price is about $130.  It's worth it to spend the extra $40.


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## dookie182

thank you for the additional informations.
  I really appriciate
  all the best.
  Q


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## Edwood

Just ordered a Music Fidelity V-Link from Amazon, since they're fulfilling with Prime shipping now. 
   
  It may be a lot bulkier than the Halide Bridge I was considering, but since I'm using this for non-portable computer usage, it's fine that it takes up extra space.
   
  Hopefully it plays nice with reclock, Media Player Classic, etc.  I'm sure at the least, it'll be fine with Foobar in my set up.


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## JiggaD369

Has anyone compared this to the Audio-GD DI?


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## Edwood

Just got my V-Link today.  Wow, pure plug and play bliss.
   
  Plugged it in, and blamo!  Just works.
   
  Make sure in Foobar to change Output in Playback options to WASAPI (Music Fidelity V-Link), and then Output Data Format to 24 Bit.
   
  I have it hooked into the Coaxial SPDIF input in my HifiMan HM-801. 
   
  The V-Link may be a fairly large brick for what is does, but for being under $200, I don't care at all!


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## Patu

jiggad369 said:


> Has anyone compared this to the Audio-GD DI?




I have V-link in order and I currently have HiFace and DI + PSU. I'll compare them and keep the best one.


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## JiggaD369

Quote: 





patu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Would love to here the comparison! It would really help me decide which coverter to go with.


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## dookie182

+1 definitly interested in the comparaison between audio gd DI and the v-link....
  as it seems to be clear that the DI gives better results than the stock hiface..but more on pare with the jkeny modded hiface.
  looking forward to read it.


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## BrightSpark

HiFace v. V-Link ? ... I'm all ears. This is the comparison I'm waiting for. 

Anyone tried the V-Link with Linux yet? There are plenty of Linux LiveCDs around to give it a go. Interested to see what "lsusb -v" at the command line reports, and how it works with ALSA etc. It should be OK as the TAS1020B is a USB audio 1.0 device, but it would be nice to have confirmation.


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## MomijiTMO

Just ordered one from Custom Cable UK. No idea how long it will take to get here though.


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## Patu

Do remember that my HiFace is one of the earlier units. It has the bigger clocks and obviously very different sound quality compared to the ones they ship nowadays. I've argued and argued with people about the SQ of HiFace. To me it sounds completely different than many reviews or people say it does.


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## Justin Uthadude

In reference to the 2 clocks I read in Computeraudiophile, here is what Musical fidelity responded to the author:
   
_"There is only a single dedicated oscillator whose frequency is fixed to 44.1 or 48k based on what the USB receiver circuit sees; I must’ve missed this detail in reviewing your copy of the review in January"_


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## BrightSpark

That statement doesn't make much sense to me.  As far as I can tell, there is only one xtal on the V-link's pcb. It's a 6MHz oscillator which acts as the  master clock of the TAS 1020B USB stream controller whose internal logic generates all other frequencies. It's the TAS1020B that controls the timing of the DIT4096 digital audio transmitter.  There are no pulse transformers on the digital out like say the new KingRex 192 converter. I don't if that has any great effect on SQ.
   
  I can connect to my DAC via the digital out of an Envy24HT s/card or to its USB adaptive input. I cannot really hear any difference between the two using my Senn HD595 headphones, So either my ears are not so good, or the two sources really are on a par with one another. I'm not sure my system has the resolution to show much improvement with the V-link. Looking forward to what Patu has to say ...


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## Justin Uthadude

BrightSpark-
  The technical layout stuff is over my head. I was parroting MuFi's reply. My reason for purchasing the v-link was to connect a laptop with no s/pdif output to a dac that, while it accepts s/pdif and usb, has a 16bit only usb receiver. I wanted something that would play 24/96 files and didn't require any modifications or drivers. I don't care about 192k. The v-link is a solid improvement _for me._ I cannot tell how much of it is due to the probability that my usb input isn't as good as the s/pdif _on my dac _so that sounds better, or the better input combined with the transport controlling the usb port asynchronously. After reading the audio-gd DI thread, this seemed the better way for me to go. I wanted plug and play with as little digital processing as possible. I'm happy. As far as I'm concerned, there could be nothing inside the box but a picture of Charlie Sheen. I use an Adum galvanic isolator dongle that isolates the data lines and power line, and my dac runs off its own power supply. Maybe I got lucky and have the kind of system that benefits from the v-link, but i feel like I went from mobo to external dac. imo


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## MomijiTMO

No drivers is a huge plus for me. Something that has its own power supply is also a plus.


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## wushuliu

FWIW, I compared the V-link w/ the USB input of my audio-gd DAC19MK3 from my PC and can't say it did a whole lot - and that's with fancy optical out cable to boot. However I only listened to 16/44 files. I also did not find it to sound better than the Teralink X2 (modified), slightly different but not necessarily better. Maybe the DAC19 does a great job on the input side after all regrdless of input.
   
  Just my first impressions and .02, YMMV, etc...


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## tubesound

Quote:


wushuliu said:


> FWIW, I compared the V-link w/ the USB input of my audio-gd DAC19MK3 from my PC and can't say it did a whole lot - and that's with fancy optical out cable to boot. However I only listened to 16/44 files. I also did not find it to sound better than the Teralink X2 (modified), slightly different but not necessarily better.


 
   
  I'm quite surprised by your initial impressions. I have an Audio GD NFB-3 and its USB uses Tenor chip as the one used in your Teralink X2. I found NFB-3's USB performance is very mediocre. I have a crappy Creative Live! external USB sound card to act as USB-SPDIF converter and feeds into NFB-3's coaxial input; the sound is noticeably better than the USB input. V-Link adopts the asynchronous mode which is supposed to be superior than the adaptive mode that's implemented in the Tenor chip.
   
  I heard from somebody who owns both V-Link and Halide Bridge and he said V-Link needs at least 50 hours burn-in time while Halide is great right out of the box. He also said Halide sounds better to him than V-Link even if you connect those expensive cables to V-Link (It may work out cheaper for Halide if you count the costs of those cables).
   
  I've ordered a V-Link and will be able to compare it with Genesis Digital Lens.


----------



## monoethylene

Has someone compared the V-Link with the Blue Circle Audio Thingee??


----------



## MomijiTMO

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> FWIW, I compared the V-link w/ the USB input of my audio-gd DAC19MK3 from my PC and can't say it did a whole lot - and that's with fancy optical out cable to boot. However I only listened to 16/44 files. I also did not find it to sound better than the Teralink X2 (modified), slightly different but not necessarily better. Maybe the DAC19 does a great job on the input side after all regrdless of input.
> 
> Just my first impressions and .02, YMMV, etc...


 

 Thanks for your impressions. I'm not expecting much of a difference between my udac and the v-link. One will go though (I think...).


----------



## Patu

V-Link is here. I wonder if it needs any burn in but the first sounds out of it aren't as promising as I expected them to be.


----------



## JiggaD369

Going by others, it needs atleast 50 hours.


----------



## Wood

Yes it does improve with burning in. To be fair I thought it sounded pretty good straight out of the box and was pleasantly surprised that it continues to improve.
   
  But... with coax plugged in I can hear very low level whirring noise from my disc drives, The coax has to be completely disconnected even when listening through opt. With opt only, the background is silent.With the coax, its barely  noticeable when playing music, but it is there.
   
  It may just be the laptop that is at fault, but in the long term I will have to consider using an adum device or adding a pulse TX if I want to use the coax ony. Despite this, I am very happy with the v-link.
   
  I wonder if any other owners have noticed this with coax?
   
   
   
   
  .......Just confirmed the noise is a ground loop problem, the background is silent with coax when I run the Laptop on battery.........


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Wood-
  I tried using battery power on my laptop to see if it was quieter than a/c and in the process found out that _my_ laptop has no power noise when I run off a/c with the _battery taken out_. Perhaps the battery charging circuitry is making noise? You might want to try it.


----------



## MikeW

Patu, don't you also have a hiface and Audio GD DI? im really anxious to hear your comparison I don't have anything right now, and am torn between all these new options.. 
   
  Bravo 
  Audio GD DI
  HiFace
  V-Link
  and now, MHDT Usb device too. 
   
  Im leaning heavily towards the Audio GD DI. Lots of good reviews, and the insides appear to be very well built, with really good power filtering etc.


----------



## Wood

Thanks Justin, no change though without the battery.


----------



## leeperry

mikew said:


> am torn between all these new options..
> 
> Bravo
> Audio GD DI
> ...


 

 All that to feed a Teradak NOS DAC? I'd go for the cheapest.


----------



## Wood

Hi Mike, the thing to consider with the Audio-Gd device is that it is not async , though whether that makes a jot of difference with real listening I don't know.


----------



## MikeW

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> All that to feed a Teradak NOS DAC? I'd go for the cheapest.


 


  If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. It's actually been shown that NOS dacs and R2R dacs in general, because of their Non-oversampling nature, tend to shine more with a low-jitter source. But lets keep this thread on topic. Although, the Audio Gd DI is the cheapest of the lot.


----------



## Wood

Funny you should say that Lee, as I don't have my Chameleon NOS dac with me I have been using a Cambridge Dac Magic 2
   
  Out of curiosity I got a cheap  tda1543 one chip NOS dac from ebay about a week ago.  With a couple of Blackgate caps in critical positions it jumps up and down on and destroys the Cambridge Dac.  But only if I use the V-link. Otherwise I get soggy base, lower detail etc. Seems NOS dacs really come into their own with an async device to clear up the jitter and provide more data.
   
  Cant wait to hear it with my Chameleon.


----------



## MikeW

I've actually been confused to the nature of the Audio GD DI, is it asynch or not? i read the entire thread on it and no one had a definitive answer, everyone just assumed because of its parts that it was not async. To make it more confusing, it clearly states on Audio-GD's website that it is async, maybe something was lost in translation. If you know a more detailed answer i'd like to hear it. 
   
  Quote: 





> [size=x-small]   The digital interface has USB and coaxial input and both can accept 24Bit/96KHz input. It has RCA and BNC output but users can only use one at a time.
> 
> [/size][size=x-small] Digital Interface applied asynchronous process . Built-in DSP-3 board, data in-phase processor for digital audio. 208-pin PQFP package, Manufactured on 300-mm wafers, using 90-nm low-k dielectric process. Device offers advanced features for high-performance digital signal processing (DSP) applications with up to 250-MHz Data and Master-clock in-phase processing with near zero jitter.[/size]


 
   
   
  anyways, async is not a deal breaker for me.. as the Audio GD has been compared quite favorbly to the HiFace, which is async.. so it does not seem to matter much.


----------



## Wood

Mike, I suspect it is not true async because there is no mention of software drivers.  Perhaps an owner could jump in here to clarify?


----------



## leeperry

mikew said:


> I've actually been confused to the nature of the Audio GD DI, is it asynch or not?


 
   
  These days, all transports have become low jitter and async...isn't that a wonderful world?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The DI uses the Tenor TE7022L USB chip, and here's what the Macintosh "USB Prober" app has to learn us about it:
   
_"Audio Class Specific Audio Data Format
 Audio Stream Format Type Desc.
 Format Type: 1 PCM
 Number Of Channels: 2 STEREO
 Sub Frame Size: 2
 Bit Resolution: 24
 Sample Frequency Type: 0x04 (Discrete)
 Sample Frequency: 32000 Hz
 Sample Frequency: 44100 Hz
 Sample Frequency: 48000 Hz
 Sample Frequency: 96000 Hz
 Endpoint 0x03 - Isochronous Output
 Address: 0x03 (OUT)
 Attributes: 0x09 (Isochronous *adaptive* data endpoint)
 Max Packet Size: 388
 Polling Interval: 1 ms"_
   
  For async, it should read: "Isochronous *asynchronous* data endpoint". Facts are hard to deny, aren't they.
   


mikew said:


> It's actually been shown that NOS dacs and R2R dacs in general, because of their Non-oversampling nature, tend to shine more with a low-jitter source.


 
   
  Oh yah, I forgot. When I read for another Tera DAC "_You will hear minor noise, major from right channel_", I tend to honestly believe that the bottleneck won't be your transport. Now if you wanna go for the snake oil async Halide Bridge(measured at 780ps jitter), be my guest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This said, the DI seems to have a solid PSU section...and that's essentially what you're listening to. And it's got a real big ferrite bead on its coax output too.


----------



## MikeW

The chameleon is a completely different animal compared to the valab dac. The only thing they have in common is the TDA1543 and the Passive I/v stage. They have different input chips, the chameleon has 16 dacs, and a dedicated power supply, not to mention mine's heavily modded. Also, the thing about noise.. those are Kevin's words, a reseller for Teradak, they don't come from the manufactor. And it's obvious something was lost in translation. Either way, I've owned both dacs and they don't a noise imbalance between channels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for the info on the Tenor chip.


----------



## MomijiTMO

Anyone with the V-Link want to run that program to see if it is in fact async?
   
  I have no idea if it makes a difference... I guess I will see soon enough.


----------



## vanwykca

Full Speed device @ 5 (0xFA140000): .............................................   Composite device: "Musical Fidelity V-Link"
      Port Information:   0x0018
      Device Descriptor   
      Configuration Descriptor (current config)   
          Length (and contents):   121
          Number of Interfaces:   2
          Configuration Value:   1
          Attributes:   0x80 (bus-powered)
          MaxPower:   160 ma
          Interface #0 - Audio/Control   
          Interface #1 - Audio/Streaming   
          Interface #1 - Audio/Streaming (#1)   
              Alternate Setting   1
              Number of Endpoints   2
              Interface Class:   1   (Audio)
              Interface Subclass;   2   (Streaming)
              Interface Protocol:   0
              Audio Control Class Specific Header   
              Audio Class Specific Audio Data Format   
                  Audio Stream Format Type Desc.   
                      Format Type:   1 PCM
                      Number Of Channels:   2 STEREO
                      Sub Frame Size:   3
                      Bit Resolution:   24
                      Sample Frequency Type:   0x05 (Discrete)
                      Sample Frequency:   32000 Hz
                      Sample Frequency:   44100 Hz
                      Sample Frequency:   48000 Hz
                      Sample Frequency:   88200 Hz
                      Sample Frequency:   96000 Hz
              Endpoint 0x01 - Isochronous Output   
                  Address:   0x01  (OUT)
                Attributes:   0x05  (Isochronous asynchronous data endpoint)
                  Max Packet Size:   582
                  Polling Interval:   1 ms
              Class-Specific AS Audio EndPoint - Isochronous output   
              Endpoint 0x81 - Isochronous Input


----------



## wushuliu

Isn't the issue implementation? Like any other component, just because it has X (in this case async) doesn't mean it's automatically better. Even Jkeny ranks the Audio-gd DI as much better than the Hiface (but not as good as his modded version of course).


----------



## ninjikiran

There is the Teralink and Halide bridge as well.  hell even a Logitech Squeezebox touch.


----------



## Wood

Yes I believe the issue is implementation, to a degree. A poorly implemented Async device would get trashed by a well implemented Iso. But because an  Async can recover more data, a well implemented Async device should always have the edge on a well implemented Iso device


----------



## davidcotton

Atm my main system is as follows :-
   
  Mac mini, usb out to Cambridge Audio Dacmagic (newest one) rca outs to marantz 66 KI Signature amp (oldie but goodie)Mission 780 speakers. Most of the files are alac.  Any advantage to getting one of these vlink things or is it just if I prefer coax to usb or optical?
   
  Cheers


----------



## dookie182

patu, any update of the v-link vs audio GD DI?
  and did anyone compared it to the firestone Bravo?


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





dookie182 said:


> patu, any update of the v-link vs audio GD DI?
> and did anyone compared it to the firestone Bravo?


 


  Just plugged V-Link in. It sounds muffled compared to DI + PSU. It also loses in PRaT. I think the difference is quite obvious. Of course the V-Link isn't burned in but I'm not sure if I even have any motivation to start the burn-in process.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





patu said:


> Just plugged V-Link in. It sounds muffled compared to DI + PSU. It also loses in PRaT. I think the difference is quite obvious. Of course the V-Link isn't burned in but I'm not sure if I even have any motivation to start the burn-in process.


 
  Patu-
 Does it also sound muffled compared to the Hiface you have in your signature? I have the v-link and think it sounds better the longer I listen to it. I was considering the DI first and got the v-link instead. Then I thought I might get the DI also for comparison, but if the v-link sounds muffled compared to it, I might not like it. I think the Hiface is bright and trebly to my ears, so the v-link should sound muffled compared to it also. Does this make any sense?


----------



## Wood

My findings are the same as yours Justin, except compared with the musiland usd1, (I don't have a hiface to compare).
   
  The v-link for me sounds naturally balanced, and very clear but without sounding hyped with exaggerated treble.
   
  Matter of taste me thinks?


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





wood said:


> ......Matter of taste me thinks?


 

 Wood-
  I believe you have hit the nail on the head. I went to the Atlanta mini-meet over the weekend. Incredibly, there were HD800, T1, R10, L3000, HE-6, stax, etc. It was my first meet and after a lot of listening I realized that once you get to a certain point, there doesn't seem to be a good or bad; just different. Taste plays a big role in what you think is 'better'. I have a certain tube that made my amplifier sound more detailed, but after a week it started to sound too bright. I went back to a tube that sounded a little dull before, but now sounds more realistic. I am finding out that _for me_, what initially might sound boring later turns out to be neutral (or the recording) and what initially sounds better turns out later to be coloration.
   
  Honestly, I am beginning to find that there is often more difference in the various recordings than there is in the equipment. In any event, I am really liking the v-link and maybe won't get the DI to compare just yet.


----------



## baka1969

Does anyone have any speculation on how well it would work on the following?

 Laptop > Win XP > iTunes > USB (Nordost/Belden Gold) > Cary Xciter > b22/WA6SE > HD800

 I had the Blue Circle Thingee but sold it after I upgraded from the DacMagic to the Xciter.


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> Patu-
> Does it also sound muffled compared to the Hiface you have in your signature? I have the v-link and think it sounds better the longer I listen to it. I was considering the DI first and got the v-link instead. Then I thought I might get the DI also for comparison, but if the v-link sounds muffled compared to it, I might not like it. I think the Hiface is bright and trebly to my ears, so the v-link should sound muffled compared to it also. Does this make any sense?


 
   
  I thought first that DI sounds brighter than HiFace but when I switched to upsampling to 192khz, it changed to more balanced sound IMO. I like it better with upsampling on. Anyway, my setup is very capable and revealing and if DI would be too bright then I would hear it. DI + PSU is just better sounding than V-Link. Better separation, deeper and more powerful bass, better PRaT and all in all more dynamic sound. More lively. My HiFace is borrowed to my friend at the moment so I can't say anything about it.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Patu-
  I believe that your system is revealing. I was trying to get a feel for what you were calling bright and what you called dull or muffled. I have a better idea now when you say you like the balance, bass, PRaT, etc better when your DI is in upsampling mode than when it is in bit perfect mode. I do not doubt your taste. Since they are roughly the same price without external PS, I tried the v-link first because I wanted as little dsp as possible. Now you make me curious again to compare.


----------



## dookie182

thank you guys for your contribution.
  So it sems that for the money, the audio GD DI+psu it the one to beat.
  did someone already had he occasion to compare it to the firestone bravo+supplier psu?
  does the DI act as a reclocker like the bravo do?
  any information/impression/advise is welcome.


----------



## Patu

I forgot to mention that I hate too bright or extremely revealing sound. Sibilance is the worst, I'm very sensitive to it. It makes me fatigued quickly.


----------



## MomijiTMO

I think mine is sitting at the post office.  
   
  (Either that or a soldering iron).


----------



## MomijiTMO

Well it was the soldering iron but I did pick up my v-link today. I have some listening to do.


----------



## ninjikiran

You would adore the LCD-2's, revealing without the sibilance.
  
  Quote: 





patu said:


> I forgot to mention that I hate too bright or extremely revealing sound. Sibilance is the worst, I'm very sensitive to it. It makes me fatigued quickly.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Has anyone read the writeup in April's Stereophile?


----------



## tpaxadpom

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> Has anyone read the writeup in April's Stereophile?


 

 I read your post and dropped by local Barnes and Noble. John Atkinson reviewed V-link and did an interesting set of measurements. He fed Musical Fidelity X24 DAC that doesn't have good jitter rejection with J-test pattern generated from AP2772 and measured jitter on the output to establish some reference. Then he used 15' Toslink and fed the same 16bit J-Test signal from his mac mini to the same DAC, then repeated measuments with V-Link using coax and toslink outputs. He also measured jitter on AP2772 and it was similar to U-stello usb-spdif converter. In his review he compared it to Halide Bridge and mentioned that Halide was more precise and transparent. Overall interesting article that is worth reading. I was considering getting V-link and was looking forward to pro reviews. I wasn't able to get a hold of February Hi-Fi News in US where V-link was reviewed.


----------



## leeperry

tpaxadpom said:


> John Atkinson reviewed V-link and did an interesting set of measurements.



figures?


----------



## grokit

I just changed a few things around and put a V-Link in between my old Mac Mini running ALAC > Pure Music and my surround receiver's coaxial input with bi-amped Polk towers and a 15" subwoofer, and it's never sounded so good.


----------



## tubesound

Had a brief comparison with Genesis Digital Lens in my system the other day and couldn't tell much of a difference.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





tubesound said:


> Had a brief comparison with Genesis Digital Lens in my system the other day and couldn't tell much of a difference.


 

 So the tiny USB-powered V-Link is just as good as the much bigger, more expensive, and AC-powered Digital Lens (which still fetches $500 used) for jitter reduction, that's great news!


----------



## tubesound

One question: after I connect V-Link to the computer (Windows Vista or Window 7), the computer installs the driver automatically. However, this driver only supports 24/44.1, 24/48 and 24/96. No 24/88.2 or any 16 bit formats on the drop down list (although 16 bit is supported). Is this the same case for you?


----------



## grokit

Sorry, I haven't tried the V-link on Windows, and 99% of my music is redbook.


----------



## lmf22

Quote: 





tubesound said:


> One question: after I connect V-Link to the computer (Windows Vista or Window 7), the computer installs the driver automatically. However, this driver only supports 24/44.1, 24/48 and 24/96. No 24/88.2 or any 16 bit formats on the drop down list (although 16 bit is supported). Is this the same case for you?


 

 That's what I have when I go into the Sound properties.  The drop-down menu contains only 24-bit with 44.1, 48, and 96 kHz.  (I have Windows 7 64-bit.)


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





tubesound said:


> One question: after I connect V-Link to the computer (Windows Vista or Window 7), the computer installs the driver automatically. However, this driver only supports 24/44.1, 24/48 and 24/96. No 24/88.2 or any 16 bit formats on the drop down list (although 16 bit is supported). Is this the same case for you?


 
  If those options are coming up in the Advanced options then relax- those options are for shared mode. Best to run it in exclusive mode where those options are disabled.
   
  The V-link should perform best at 96 kHz if your player can upsample. Check it out.


----------



## tubesound

Quote:


nada said:


> The V-link should perform best at 96 kHz if your player can upsample. Check it out.


 

 I use Foobar as the music player but I didn't use any DSP and ideally I wanted to use 16 bit output (but with V-Link I have to use 24 bit). In your experience, what's the best upsampling DSP plug-in?


----------



## monoethylene

If you have 16/44.1 music there shouldnt be a problem with the 24 bit because as far as I know itll be filled up by zeros..


----------



## Jetblackstar

Ok, I had to pipe on this thread. Your guys frank comments on the V-Link and surrounding setups and issues really helped me decide to go for it. So thank you all!​  ​ So, to give back:​ First off YES it does work VERY well with Linux (Ubuntu 10.6 and Mythbuntu 10.4, not tried Fedora 12 yet). I took a chance on this, we have no Windows machine around. Most plug and play I've had form a device on Linux bar my keyboard lol. And since its so damn simple with one output there is no messing around with choosing mixers, devices ETC.​ I can’t see it listed with lsusb for some odd reason, but cat /proc/asound/VLink/stream0 looks all kinds of correct  (also Pulse/ALSA recognise a single mixer called V-Link)​  ​ As for DTS pass through I'm going with maybe. My Yamaha surround amp swallows the signal (temporarily wired it in direct bypassing my DAC), but I've not got the full set of 5.1 speakers wired atm to be 100% sure, but a DTA test audio file picked out left and right correctly. I'll pull out my centre speaker and try again later. I think the Yam may have a DTS valid logo in it's display but i need to check the manual to remember.​  ​ For my personal setup and our family setup (MythTv Linux box) it's been a massive improvement.​  ​ I have a Ubuntu PC with an on board nVidia spdif coax output (V-Link replaces this), feeds into a Midiman / m-audio Flying cow 24bit DAC feeding into a Yamaha RX-396 (weak link but drives headphones and some bookshelf Gale's well for now). The main fidelity for me being my Denon AH-D2000 headphones which got me into recent Audiophile mode. ​ The family setup was a Creative live 16 USB soundcard (now v-link) via optical toslink to a m-audio DAC ( i forget which, superdac i think ) and into either a nice Mission Cyrus amp and mission speakers or passed out to a Creek OBH-21 headphone amp and into the same Denon headphones. (This is obviously the more respectable setup)​  ​ The improvement is breathtaking. I've hot swapped the V-Link between setups to listen. Beethoven sounded sooo clear and respectable on the Cryus and mission speakers, the Creek and Denon 2ks were beautiful and detailed. Dido Flac16 sung beautifully, which is normally a good test track.  My own setup (it’s ultimate home) is singing to me now with yet another step of clarity, detail and smoothness I had only dreamed of squeezing out of my it. Craig Armstrong is currently wirring into my brain ​ Obviously these setups were very weak on the PC to SPDIF production side of things so it’s no wonder it’s better but I’m so damn happy with how much. For us it’s essentially a £80-90 effin good soundcard as neither DACs had USB.  I personally really wanted an independent hi fidelity link so my PC rig can be upgraded as i like. The Flying Cow only has Coax in and many onboard souncards or PCIe ones are optical only these days, presumably premoted by the natural isolation.  As well as an added bonus be being able to reliably play 24bit Flac and DVD-A now with far less concern of complex drivers or audio cards or devices offering silly configs or setups that accidentally set you to a lower samplerate (New Radiohead Album FLAC-24 download kicked me into this)​  ​ I just need to confirm some suspicions that ALSA sound daemon is reported to “upsample” everything to 44.1k. Which of course is a nockdown for 24bit/96k or higher. I’ve heard word of an Alsa plugin which trades higher CPU for less meggering with audio and allows straight through “whatever” bitrate materials.​ This said the 24bit tracks i have do sound far better by ear. I wish my flying cow had sample-rate indicators on to confirm  Probably find some diagnostics data in /proc to help out.​  ​ Now to stop myself buying an SSD disk drive to cut down on HDD hum I can’t even hear yet lol. Headphone amp first me thinks.​  ​ cat /proc/asound/VLink/stream0​ Musical Fidelity Musical Fidelity V-Link at usb-0000:00:02.0-1, full speed : USB Audio​  ​ Playback:​  Status: Running​    Interface = 1​    Altset = 1​    URBs = 3 [ 8 8 8 ]​    Packet Size = 582​    Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x2c.1998)​  Interface 1​    Altset 1​    Format: S24_3LE​    Channels: 2​    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)​    Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000​


----------



## zappp

V-Link, V-Dac, V-Power, V- ...
   
  Remember MF's original marketing blurb about keeping it simple and cheap? 
   
  Why not one box?


----------



## tubesound

Quote:


zappp said:


> V-Link, V-Dac, V-Power, V- ...
> 
> Remember MF's original marketing blurb about keeping it simple and cheap?
> 
> Why not one box?


 

  Say, If you already have a very good DAC and you became interested in PC HiFi, then you may only need the V-Link and you'll have no need of V-Dac. It's like Integrated Amp vs. Pre Amp + Power Amp. They all have its own place on the market.


----------



## grokit

If you want one box solutions, get their M series.


----------



## BrightSpark

JetBlackStar,
   
  Thanks for your post. As a Linux user myself it's good to have confirmation that the MF V-Link works under Linux. I use KDE distros rather than Gnomed based Ubuntu. But it's really commands at the CLI that will allow you to see how the V-Link is functioning.  It's curious that nothing appears in the list of devices shown by "*lsusb*". Perhaps it's there, but under an unexpected name.  
   
  I have an external USB DAC (adaptive mode) which lusb just shows as: 
   
*Bus 002 Device 002: ID 08bb:2902 Texas Instruments Japan*
   
  This is because my DAC uses a PCM2902 chip for USB input. the "dmesg" command as root shows a little more info:
   

*usb 2-1: Product: USB Audio CODEC
 usb 2-1: Manufacturer: Burr-Brown from TI
 input: Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio CODEC as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/usb2/2-1/2-1:1.3/input/input1
 generic-usb 0003:08BB:2902.0001: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Device [Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio CODEC ] on usb-0000:00:02.0-1/input3*

 I wonder if the V-link shows up in the dmesg list in some form?
   
   
  Just like windows you'll get the best out of Linux audio by avoiding sound mixers and any sample rate conversion that ALSA might perfom. And in Linux I have avoided using PluseAudio as it seems to add an unnecessary (in my case) addititoinal software layer. If possible it's also best to avoid any kind of software volume control which will have a detrimental effect on SQ. As my DAC has a variable line out, I set all software volume settings to max and use the DAC's volume control.
   
  The basic heirarchy of sound devices in ALSA are dmix (mixing sound source and possible sample rate conversion), plughw (bit padding/sample format conversion eg 16bit to 24bit to match sound source format to hardware device ) , and hw (no conversion of rate or format).
   
  I can address the USB inut of my DAC as a "hw" device, I would hope you could do the same for the V-LINK.  Whether you have one or more soundcards in any of your PCs, you can find the correct way to address the V-link on your system by using "*aplay -l*" at the command line.
   
  In may case the output is:
   
   
*aplay -l
 **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
 card 0: A71 [Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1], device 0: ICE1724 [ICE1724]
 Subdevices: 1/1
 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
 card 0: A71 [Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1], device 1: ICE1724 IEC958 [ICE1724 IEC958]
 Subdevices: 1/1
 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
 card 0: A71 [Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1], device 2: ICE1724 Surrounds [ICE1724 Surround PCM]
 Subdevices: 3/3
 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
 Subdevice #1: subdevice #1
 Subdevice #2: subdevice #2
 card 1: default [USB Audio CODEC ], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
 Subdevices: 1/1
 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0*
  
  So my the USB inut of my DAC is device hw:1,0  or hw:1:0 depending on the software used for audio playback. In your case if it's the only sound device it would be hw:0,0 or hw:0.0
   
  If you have sound samples in WAV format at different resoultion, *aplay* can be used to show if these a playing at native rates and the V-Link is autoadjusting as it should. e.g *aplay -D hw:x,y sample.wav*. Substitute x and y with the value you get from aplay -l for the V-link which should be seen as externel USB sound device.
   
  Alternatively you could use mplayer at the command line, with something like:
   
   
*mplayer -ao alsa:device=x:y  sample.flac*
   
  or 
   
*mplayer -ao alsa:device=x:y -srate 96000 sample.flac*
   
  The srate option forces a given audio playback rate. The output of mplayer will show you if any samplerate conversion is happening.
  (note slight difference in the format of the device address between aplay and mplayer)
   
  For other Linux GUI sound apps, it's normally just a case of finding how to pick the right sound device and make sure is using the "hw" address.  I hope that might help with some further experimentation and if you get a chance to post again I'd be interested to see any relveant output from dmesg etc.


----------



## abaxas

REF : linux support above.
   
  Can someone confirm a few points for me
   
  1) Output bitrate relative to input - ie is what you put in, what you get out? ie 16/44.1 in... 16/44.1 out
  2) Are any output formats dithered in any way (ie internally in the card)
  3) Does it only support 24 bit samples? Or can you feed it 16 bit (appears from above it's 24 bit only)
   
  Just wondering if this is worthy upgrade from my Trends UD-10, which I only use as a usb>spdif convertor.
   
  Thanks in advance..
   
  Abaxas


----------



## BrightSpark

Quote: 





abaxas said:


> REF : linux support above.
> 
> Can someone confirm a few points for me
> 
> ...


 

 About point 3 above. If it's true that the V-link hardware requires a 24bit format, then in Linux it will be addressed in ALSA as a *plughw* device, as format conversion  (not the same as sample rate conversion) is required to match the audio format to what the hardware needs. Yes, of course it will play back 16bit sound files, ALSA/LINUX will bit pad to convert the format. So there is a slight CPU overahead as compared to when no format conversion is needed. But you will not notice any loweirng of sound quality.
   
  This is exactly what happens if I use my internal sound card (Envy24HT chipset) to feed my DAC via its toslink input. So the typical mplayer command becomes something like:
   
*mplayer -ao alsa:device=plughw:0:1 CDImage.flac*
   
  In my case the internal soundcard is the first card, and its optical out is seen by ALSA as device 1 on card 0.  In some configurations you might find ALSA  gives the optical out a different format of name as shown by the aplay -l command, e.g.
   
*mplayer -ao alsa:device=iec958=A71.0 CDImage.flac*
   
  iec958 is the optical out on a card A71, device 0.
   
  (In Linux you can get access to the full freq range on an cheap Chaintech AV710 s/card without trying to flash the cards to an  Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1. By simply loading the s/card's ALSA module ice1724 with the option model=prodigy71. )
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> About point 3 above. If it's true that the V-link hardware requires a 24bit format, then in Linux it will be addressed in ALSA as a *plughw* device, as format conversion  (not the same as sample rate conversion) is required to match the audio format to what the hardware needs. Yes, of course it will play back 16bit sound files, ALSA/LINUX will bit pad to convert the format. So there is a slight CPU overahead as compared to when no format conversion is needed. But you will not notice any loweirng of sound quality.


 
   
  MPD supports S24_3LE format, so you can bypass the ALSA completely addressing the card with hw,0,0 (or whatever is your device number)
  I'm sure other players do the same.


----------



## lmf22

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> Has anyone read the writeup in April's Stereophile?


 
  In that same April 2011 issue of Stereophile, the V-Link is one of the Class A recommended components (p. 82). 
   
  Towards the end of the review, the V-Link was compared to the Halide Bridge:
  "Well, as much as I would have liked to say that the $169 V-Link equaled the $450 Halide, with the Sibelius symphony the Halide did provide a slightly more transparent window on the Walthamstow Town Hall acoustic, with slightly more precisely defined stereo imaging.  (Although, if I had to swear, the Halide's bass sounded a little less rich.) Reverting to the expensive glass AudioQuest TosLink did even matters up, the V-Link still sounding slightly richer than the Halide and the Halide still ahead in precision and transparency. But these are small differences in absolute terms- and with a DAC that offer better jitter rejection than the Benchmark, those differences may well vanish." (Stereophile, Vol 34, No. 4; April 2011, p 167).


----------



## BrightSpark

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> MPD supports S24_3LE format, so you can bypass the ALSA completely addressing the card with hw,0,0 (or whatever is your device number)
> I'm sure other players do the same.


 

 While I probably should have said "then in Linux it _might  _be addressed in ALSA as a *plughw* device" , I believe your own statement is incorrect. It's not just a case of what format a particular Linux sound player supports (MPD, mplayer etc.) but also if this matches what the hardware supports. Take for example my own sound card. Compare these two outputs from mplayer:
   
*mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=0.1 "Johann Christian F. Bach Concerti.ape"*
 MPlayer SVN-r33057 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team
 Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
 Can't init input joystick
 mplayer: could not connect to socket
 mplayer: No such file or directory
 Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

 Playing Johann Christian F. Bach Concerti.ape.
 libavformat file format detected.
 [lavf] stream 0: audio (ape), -aid 0
 Clip info:
  Year: 2009
  Genre: Klassik
  Artist: Freiburger Barockorchester
  AlbumArtist: Freiburger Barockorchester
  Album: Johann Christian F. Bach Concerti
  Tool Name: Easy CD-DA Extractor (http://www.poikosoft.com)
 Load subtitles in ./
 ==========================================================================
 Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders
 AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 0.0 kbit/0.00% (ratio: 0->176400)
 Selected audio codec: [ffape] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg Monkey's Audio)
 ==========================================================================
*[AO_ALSA] Format s16le is not supported by hardware, trying default.
 [AO_ALSA] Unable to set format: Invalid argument
 Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa:device=hw=0.1'
 Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound.
 Audio: no sound
 Video: no video


 Exiting... (End of file)*
   
  This fails not because mplayer does not support the s16le format, but because the sound card does not support it. It cannot be addressed as a "*hw*" device.  Using a "*plughw*" address, the audio file plays successfully as the necessary format conversion takes place.
   
*mplayer -ao alsa:device=plughw=0.1 "Johann Christian F. Bach Concerti.ape"*
 MPlayer SVN-r33057 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team
 Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
 Can't init input joystick
 mplayer: could not connect to socket
 mplayer: No such file or directory
 Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

 Playing Johann Christian F. Bach Concerti.ape.
 libavformat file format detected.
 [lavf] stream 0: audio (ape), -aid 0
 Clip info:
  Year: 2009
  Genre: Klassik
  Artist: Freiburger Barockorchester
  AlbumArtist: Freiburger Barockorchester
  Album: Johann Christian F. Bach Concerti
  Tool Name: Easy CD-DA Extractor (http://www.poikosoft.com)
 Load subtitles in ./
 ==========================================================================
 Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders
 AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 0.0 kbit/0.00% (ratio: 0->176400)
 Selected audio codec: [ffape] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg Monkey's Audio)
 ==========================================================================
 AO: [alsa] 44100Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
 Video: no video
 Starting playback...
 A:  18.6 (18.5) of 4652.9 ( 1:17:32.9)  3.0%


 MPlayer interrupted by signal 2 in module: play_audio
 A:  18.6 (18.5) of 4652.9 ( 1:17:32.9)  3.0%

 Exiting... (Quit)
  
   
  I can use ""*hw*" address on my USB DAC because the PCM2902 chip only supports 16bit at 32/44/48 Khz, so no format conversion is needed.   It looks like the V-link is a 24bit device, hence I think if will be a "*plughw*" device as far as ALSA is concerned. Perhaps someone can confirm that either way. It's not really that important,  as it appears to works as an async usb device in Linux with no need for drivers, a big plus for Linux users who might liked to have had something like the M2Tech hiface work for them.


----------



## bluelans

well done keep post


----------



## abaxas

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> MPD supports S24_3LE format, so you can bypass the ALSA completely addressing the card with hw,0,0 (or whatever is your device number)
> I'm sure other players do the same.


 


  That is exactly my setup. MPD > usb convertor > benchmark dac1.
   
  The issue I have with being forced into 24bit samples is software trust. I know if I play a 16/44.1 flac into the trends, what goes in comes out. Ie it appears to be bit perfect.
   
  I've looked at the mpd source and it appears just to be a shift from 16>24 (ie padded with 8x0s). Which is exactly what I want but what about other software? If there is more processing done, there is more risk of something going wrong. My hifi philosophy is always to keep it as simple as possible.
   
  So is there anyone in the NE of England who has one of these? Then we can test and get the final defacto answer as MF tech support is worse than useless.
   
  PS . all this so I can play 24/96 that in reality I dont even think I need.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> While I probably should have said "then in Linux it _might  _be addressed in ALSA as a *plughw* device" , I believe your own statement is incorrect. It's not just a case of what format a particular Linux sound player supports (MPD, mplayer etc.) but also if this matches what the hardware supports.


 

 Yes, it makes sense!
  What I meant is with hardware supporting 24 bit streaming (like Halide Bridge or  V-Link) you can bypass the ALSA mixer and address the device with hw.
   
  By the way, I'd love to compare my Bridge with the V-Link


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





lmf22 said:


> In that same April 2011 issue of Stereophile, the V-Link is one of the Class A recommended components (p. 82).
> 
> Towards the end of the review, the V-Link was compared to the Halide Bridge:
> "Well, as much as I would have liked to say that the $169 V-Link equaled the $450 Halide, with the Sibelius symphony the Halide did provide a slightly more transparent window on the Walthamstow Town Hall acoustic, with slightly more precisely defined stereo imaging.  (Although, if I had to swear, the Halide's bass sounded a little less rich.) Reverting to the expensive glass AudioQuest TosLink did even matters up, the V-Link still sounding slightly richer than the Halide and the Halide still ahead in precision and transparency. But these are small differences in absolute terms- and with a DAC that offer better jitter rejection than the Benchmark, those differences may well vanish." (Stereophile, Vol 34, No. 4; April 2011, p 167).


 

 lmf22-
  thanks for the relay. This makes me happy. The Halide would have been my first choice, but at 3X the price of the v-link I went with the MF. I didn't want to be in the same boat with the m2tech/kingrex/etc boys when microsoft eventually rewrites the usb driver. There aren't a lot of fanboys for the v-link on head-fi like the audio-gd di. because there aren't any parts to swap or tweak IMO, but plug and play sweetness sounds good to me.
   
    
  Quote:


abaxas said:


> ........  PS . all this so I can play 24/96 that in reality I dont even think I need.


 
  abaxas-
  I know what you mean brother.
  Right now I'm setting up a playlist that randomly chooses songs from Gaucho by Steely Dan from either my original CD, the MoFi or the 24/96 d/l I just got from HD Tracks for this purpose to see if I can tell the difference without knowing which is which.


----------



## BrightSpark

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Yes, it makes sense!
> What I meant is with hardware supporting 24 bit streaming (like Halide Bridge or  V-Link) you can bypass the ALSA mixer and address the device with hw.
> 
> By the way, I'd love to compare my Bridge with the V-Link


 

 Now I see what you meant. That is correct.
   
  AFAIK all Envy24 based cards end up being referenced as a "*plughw*" device in ALSA as the ICE chipsets work on a 32 bit format. So in my case 24/9600 and higher rez files still need linear PCM format conversion if I send playback via the s/card's optical out to my DAC. e.g:
   
*aplay -v --device=iec958:CARD=A71,DEV=0 2L38_01_96kHz.wav*
*Playing WAVE '2L38_01_96kHz.wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Stereo
 Linear conversion PCM (S32_LE)*
 Its setup is:
   stream       : PLAYBACK
   access       : RW_INTERLEAVED
   format       : S24_3LE
   subformat    : STD
   channels     : 2
   rate         : 96000
   exact rate   : 96000 (96000/1)
   msbits       : 24
   buffer_size  : 32768
   period_size  : 8192
   period_time  : 85333
   tstamp_mode  : NONE
   period_step  : 1
   avail_min    : 8192
   period_event : 0
   start_threshold  : 32768
   stop_threshold   : 32768
   silence_threshold: 0
   silence_size : 0
   boundary     : 1073741824
 Slave: Hooks PCM
 Its setup is:
   stream       : PLAYBACK
   access       : MMAP_INTERLEAVED
   format       : S32_LE
   subformat    : STD
   channels     : 2
   rate         : 96000
   exact rate   : 96000 (96000/1)
   msbits       : 24
   buffer_size  : 32768
   period_size  : 8192
   period_time  : 85333
   tstamp_mode  : NONE
   period_step  : 1
   avail_min    : 8192
   period_event : 0
   start_threshold  : 32768
   stop_threshold   : 32768
   silence_threshold: 0
   silence_size : 0
   boundary     : 1073741824
 Slave: Hardware PCM card 0 'Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1' device 1 subdevice 0
 Its setup is:
   stream       : PLAYBACK
   access       : MMAP_INTERLEAVED
   format       : S32_LE
   subformat    : STD
   channels     : 2
   rate         : 96000
   exact rate   : 96000 (96000/1)
   msbits       : 24
   buffer_size  : 32768
   period_size  : 8192
   period_time  : 85333
   tstamp_mode  : NONE
   period_step  : 1
   avail_min    : 8192
   period_event : 0
   start_threshold  : 32768
   stop_threshold   : 32768
   silence_threshold: 0
   silence_size : 0
   boundary     : 1073741824
   appl_ptr     : 0
   hw_ptr       : 0
  
  Trying to playback the same audio file via my DAC's USB input needs the device to be addressed as a "*plughw*" device because format and rate conversion are needed:
   
*aplay -v --device=plughw:1,0 2L38_01_96kHz.wav
 Playing WAVE '2L38_01_96kHz.wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Stereo
 Plug PCM: Rate conversion PCM (48000, sformat=S16_LE)*
 Converter: libspeex (builtin)
 Protocol version: 10002
 Its setup is:
   stream       : PLAYBACK
   access       : RW_INTERLEAVED
   format       : S24_3LE
   subformat    : STD
   channels     : 2
   rate         : 96000
   exact rate   : 96000 (96000/1)
   msbits       : 24
   buffer_size  : 48000
   period_size  : 12000
   period_time  : 125000
   tstamp_mode  : NONE
   period_step  : 1
   avail_min    : 12000
   period_event : 0
   start_threshold  : 48000
   stop_threshold   : 48000
   silence_threshold: 0
   silence_size : 0
   boundary     : 1572864000
 Slave: Hardware PCM card 1 'USB Audio CODEC ' device 0 subdevice 0
 Its setup is:
   stream       : PLAYBACK
   access       : MMAP_INTERLEAVED
   format       : S16_LE
   subformat    : STD
   channels     : 2
   rate         : 48000
   exact rate   : 48000 (48000/1)
   msbits       : 16
   buffer_size  : 24001
   period_size  : 6000
   period_time  : 125000
   tstamp_mode  : NONE
   period_step  : 1
   avail_min    : 6000
   period_event : 0
   start_threshold  : 24000
   stop_threshold   : 24001
   silence_threshold: 0
   silence_size : 0
   boundary     : 1572929536
   appl_ptr     : 0
   hw_ptr       : 0

 But back to the V-link. I'm happy with my DAC's adaptive USB input so I'm not convinced the V-link is for me yet. But if I change to say the new Rega DAC it would become a necessary purchase.


----------



## BrightSpark

Quote: 





abaxas said:


> That is exactly my setup. MPD > usb convertor > benchmark dac1.
> 
> The issue I have with being forced into 24bit samples is software trust. I know if I play a 16/44.1 flac into the trends, what goes in comes out. Ie it appears to be bit perfect.
> 
> ...


 

 Really, I don't think you need to worry about sound playback where bit padding from 16bits to 24bits takes place.  Mixers and software volume controls are a concern, and do degrade playback SQ.  But it's not just so you can play 24/96, it's the magic bullet of "async USB" you'll be paying for.  Assuming of course it really is a magic bullet and there is a descernable difference between using your Trends convertor and the MF V-Link. In the end it's your ears and your money.


----------



## abaxas

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> Really, I don't think you need to worry about sound playback where bit padding from 16bits to 24bits takes place.  Mixers and software volume controls are a concern, and do degrade playback SQ.  But it's not just so you can play 24/96, it's the magic bullet of "async USB" you'll be paying for.  Assuming of course it really is a magic bullet and there is a descernable difference between using your Trends convertor and the MF V-Link. In the end it's your ears and your money.


 


 Good question, is the jitter rejection on the dac1 sufficient for the trends UD-10. Who knows that answer, probably no-one!
   
  Maybe best to leave off until the dust settles as standards are still quite new.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> But back to the V-link. I'm happy with my DAC's adaptive USB input so I'm not convinced the V-link is for me yet. But if I change to say the new Rega DAC it would become a necessary purchase.


 

 You know what? with my Linux box and ecasound in real time mode the adaptive USB input of my Havana sounded very very good. It was as good as my Juli@ optical output actually.
  I didn't get same result running XP. The Halide sounds noticeably better but I'd have been happy anyway with standard USB.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> Really, I don't think you need to worry about sound playback where bit padding from 16bits to 24bits takes place.  Mixers and software volume controls are a concern, and do degrade playback SQ.  But it's not just so you can play 24/96, it's the magic bullet of "async USB" you'll be paying for.  Assuming of course it really is a magic bullet and there is a descernable difference between using your Trends convertor and the MF V-Link. In the end it's your ears and your money.


 

 Or in my case, also the ability to use the better implemented interface on my dac. (s/pdif vs usb)


----------



## lmf22

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> lmf22-
> thanks for the relay. This makes me happy. The Halide would have been my first choice, but at 3X the price of the v-link I went with the MF. I didn't want to be in the same boat with the m2tech/kingrex/etc boys when microsoft eventually rewrites the usb driver. There aren't a lot of fanboys for the v-link on head-fi like the audio-gd di. because there aren't any parts to swap or tweak IMO, but plug and play sweetness sounds good to me.


   
  Beware that you'll have to add the cost of coaxial and USB cables, and you could end up with a setup that's more expensive than the Halide Bridge.  I use the Blackcat Veloce coaxial cable ($123) and the Wireworld Silver Starlight USB (1 meter, $300).  On the other hand, you get to experiment with different cable combinations.  I also like how the Silver Starlight USB have power conductor that's isolated from the signal conductors.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

I have discovered some oddities lately. I was re-arranging my ‘office’ at home and moved my gear. Now it’s closer to my desktop computer than where my laptop sits so I plugged it into the desktop for the heck of it. It got better. My initial belief is that the usb ports on my laptop are underpowered. It made a difference which actual port I used on the laptop. I sometimes heard some low level crud when I played music at 24/96. I would sometimes get dropouts. On my desktop, I can hear no difference if I use the usb galvanic isolator dongle (both data and power lines). Switching cables seems to make no difference. No problems. All is well in musicland. I am going to buy a powered usb hub for the laptop and see if it makes a difference.
   
  In the meantime, I cannot tell if it’s the asynch or coax instead of usb in my dac, but the v-link has made a nice improvement. Ideally, I would have a one box dac with asych (to i2s) and galvanic isolation built-in, but where’s the fun in that? Waiting for perfection isn’t really Head-Fi-ish is it?


----------



## ghofer

I have a Musical Fidelity X-DAC v8 with a USB input.  Does anyone know if the USB interface on the X-DAC provides the same functionality as the V-LINK?  I'm wondering if the V-LINK would improve the sound for my setup.  Thanks.


----------



## tubesound

ghofer said:


> I have a Musical Fidelity X-DAC v8 with a USB input.  Does anyone know if the USB interface on the X-DAC provides the same functionality as the V-LINK?  I'm wondering if the V-LINK would improve the sound for my setup.  Thanks.



X-dac uses the adaptive mode of the USB receiver whereas V-Link is asynchronous. I believe V-Link will give you a big boost in sound quality.


----------



## ghofer

Thanks for the reply.  I thought as much but I wanted to verify since I can't find any USB specs in my manual.


----------



## Nada

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> ....On my desktop, I can hear no difference if I use the usb galvanic isolator dongle (both data and power lines). Switching cables seems to make no difference. No problems. All is well in musicland. I am going to buy a powered usb hub for the laptop and see if it makes a difference.


 
   
  Thanks for the report. I look forward to what the powered hub does. Which one are you getting?


----------



## WarrenR

Has anyone tried this with the Dacmagic??
   
  Any thoughts?
   
  Cheers.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> I have discovered some oddities lately. I was re-arranging my ‘office’ at home and moved my gear. Now it’s closer to my desktop computer than where my laptop sits so I plugged it into the desktop for the heck of it. It got better. My initial belief is that the usb ports on my laptop are underpowered. It made a difference which actual port I used on the laptop. I sometimes heard some low level crud when I played music at 24/96. I would sometimes get dropouts. On my desktop, I can hear no difference if I use the usb galvanic isolator dongle (both data and power lines). Switching cables seems to make no difference. No problems. All is well in musicland. I am going to buy a powered usb hub for the laptop and see if it makes a difference.
> 
> In the meantime, I cannot tell if it’s the asynch or coax instead of usb in my dac, but the v-link has made a nice improvement. Ideally, I would have a one box dac with asych (to i2s) and galvanic isolation built-in, but where’s the fun in that? Waiting for perfection isn’t really Head-Fi-ish is it?


 
   
  Quote: 





nada said:


> Thanks for the report. I look forward to what the powered hub does. Which one are you getting?


 

  
  I am interested as well, because I don't think it's a power issue, but rather a power filtering issue. It makes sense that there would be noisier power on a laptop than on a desktop. Have you compared running the laptop off the battery only to when it is plugged in to AC power?


----------



## Justin Uthadude

I have a usb dongle to isolate the data lines and power line, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I've tried with battery and without; also not a repeatable change. A possibility is the fact that I've tweaked and gutted the O/S to disable most services except basic i/o, but I'm not motivated to re-install windows. First I'll try a powered hub. Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations on a specific make/model?


----------



## grokit

I've had good luck with this one so far:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Medialink-4-Port-Powered-External-Supply/dp/B0038YGQTO/ref=sr_1_34?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1303566998&sr=1-34


----------



## is2us

I hate to see this thread getting so quite...
  Any serious comparison between the VLink and AudioGD DI on the way from any of you guys?


----------



## wushuliu

I just got an Audio-GD DI this past weekend. I tried out the V-link briefly a couple weeks ago. Unless the V-link does a lot of break-in over time, I thought the DI was better hands down from the first note. Not to say the V-link performed badly, sounded fine. But paying the same for a DI is a no-brainer.


----------



## pasgod

The review of the V-Link by Stereophile is now available on line
   
http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-link-usb-spdif-converter-0


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> .....hands down from the first note.......


----------



## is2us

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Got It! Mail order from China it is. Thanks.


----------



## WarrenR

Quote: 





pasgod said:


> The review of the V-Link by Stereophile is now available on line
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-link-usb-spdif-converter-0


 

 Interesting.  I'm seriously considering the V-Link now.
   
  For £89 its a no brainer.


----------



## Nada

Has anyone tried running the v-link on a battery supply via a modded USB cable?


----------



## shadowlord

not much to see in the unit.
  sounds good though....


----------



## shabta

v-link just arrived! Putting it through the paces, both headphones and speakers. Set up took like all of two minutes.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Sweet. Let us know what you think.


----------



## WNBC

I agree with wushuliu, I had both and attached to a PS Audio DLIII.  The V-link was no slouch, definitely better than the Hiface I owned earlier on.  The DI + PSU just seemed to open up the soundstage a bit and the mids were punchier.  It was obvious which one was better in my system.  In your system one may sound better.  Also, the V-link has an optical out and the DI doesn't, that may be important to some.  So, given the price, if I had to choose one it would be the DI but if you wanted something immediately that is going to sound pretty good I can recommend the V-link.  The DI popped up on the for sale forum after I bought the V-link.  I was happy with the V-link, the DI was the only other one I wanted to try in the <$200 USB to S/PDIF converters.   
  
   
  Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> I just got an Audio-GD DI this past weekend. I tried out the V-link briefly a couple weeks ago. Unless the V-link does a lot of break-in over time, I thought the DI was better hands down from the first note. Not to say the V-link performed badly, sounded fine. But paying the same for a DI is a no-brainer.


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## Justin Uthadude

Just to be clear, we're talking bit perfect mode on the DI, not upsampling right?


----------



## WNBC

Default settings that come with the DI from Audio-gd.  The original owner and I never changed the jumper position so I'm assuming default is "not upsampling".  Also, the PS Audio DLIII is an upsampling DAC so when I fed 24/96 files into the DAC I'd still say the edge went to the DI over the V-link.  V-link probably had 10 hours burn-in which I'm not sure is necessary and the DI had probably a lot more than that between two owners.  Most listening with HE-4.
   
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/DSP3.JPG
   
   
  Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> Just to be clear, we're talking bit perfect mode on the DI, not upsampling right?


----------



## Twitchy_one

I have a couple of questions about the V-link that I was wondering if someone
  could answer:
   
  1.)  Does the digital input signal that goes in, have the same signal
  going out?  Ie, 44.1khz in = 44.1khz out?  (Somebody else asked
  this question but I never saw an answer).  Or does it always put out
  96Khz on the output?  Anyone try it?
   
  2.)  Is the Optical "always on"?  In other words, if you stick the V-Link
  into the USB for power & then plug in an optical cable, without playing
  any sound, direct the end of the optical cable towards your hand & see
  if the red light shines on your hand.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## ninjikiran

no difference between my halide bridge  connected via USB and a Powered USB.
   
   
  I Know its not a v-link but thought I Would share.  According to windows 250ma from the port is alll thats needed which shouldnt be too much diff from the v-link.


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## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





twitchy_one said:


> I have a couple of questions about the V-link that I was wondering if someone
> could answer:
> 
> 1.)  Does the digital input signal that goes in, have the same signal
> ...


 
  Should be under software control. What goes in goes out.


----------



## Twitchy_one

Quote: 





justin uthadude said:


> Should be under software control. What goes in goes out.


 


  Sounds good. I think I might pick one of these up so I can record from
  my Macbook to my tabletop TDK cd recorder.  It'll replace my Xitel USB
  device, which the driver isn't that good & having a USB to optical that
  doesn't have a driver might be a lot more stable.  The other benefits that
  it has for high quality sound just gives it more icing on the cake for me.
   
  I've been thinking about getting a dedicated DAC which is probably the
  only type of stereo equipment I've never owned. lol.  Originally I was
  planning on getting a DACMagic, but after reading various threads
  here & in other places, it seems the DACMagic has lost its luster.
  Plus there is a lot of overlap on the DACMagic that I dont' really need,
  which must be jacking up its price (such as 3 different sources &
  extra balanced outputs I won't be using).
   
  For instance, I saw the MF V-DAC seems to have better/rave reviews
  than the DACMagic (on Amazon the DACMagic review is littered with
  a review for the V-DAC as well as photos of a V-DAC for some reason..
  I don't know why).  I would have dismissed the V-DAC altogether
  because it didn't have an optical pass thru like the DACMagic, but
  I think the V-LINK can serve that purpose when I need it.
   
  I'm aware that V-LINK + V-DAC will cost more than the DACMagic,
  but it seems the hardware is more dedicated to making the computer
  to headphone sound as perfect as possible for the money.  DACMagic, to
  my knowledge, does nothing to the digital signal prior to sending
  it out (I guess).
   
  Plus it seems the DACMagic must be showing its age.  The wall wart
  power supply issue never changed & they don't seem to be offering
  anything different for its DAC even though their Azur CD players
  seem to be using different DAC hardware at this point.
   
  My likely setup will be:  Macbook Pro -> V-Link -> V-Dac -> custom
  Headphone tube amp (Shellbrook) for general listening &
  Macbook Pro -> V-Link -> TDK for recording purposes.


----------



## Okonkwo

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Justin Uthadude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have discovered some oddities lately. I was re-arranging my ‘office’ at home and moved my gear. Now it’s closer to my desktop computer than where my laptop sits so I plugged it into the desktop for the heck of it. It got better.


 
   
  I had exactly the same experience last week.  I've been running my V-link off of a Toshiba Satellite laptop, and have been (for the most part) satisfied with the performance.  Just for grins I decided to load Foobar onto my wife's Gateway desktop, hook my rig up to it, and see if there was any difference.  I was shocked.  The soundstage opened up considerably, the bass extension increased, and the overall clarity improved.  Logic would tell me that this was some kind of placebo effect, but when I switched back and forth from the desktop to the laptop, there was definitely a difference - no doubt about it.  I know that bits are bits regardless of what computer I'm using, so my main suspicion is the 5 volt USB power source.  I'm guessing that the USB power from the desktop is appreciably cleaner than the laptop's USB power, but that's only a theory.  After all, even the desktop is using a switching power supply (albeit a higher quality one).  I have to admit that I almost regret performing this little experiment, because like all hi-fi junkies, once you hear an improvement in performance, you want to remain at that level.  Using my wife's Gateway as my music server is simply not an option, so I'm considering ways to enhance the performance of my laptop.  One idea is to splice a high quality linear power supply into my USB cable.  I've seen Acopian 5 volt / 1 amp / < 1 mv ripple units on Ebay - used - for under 30 bucks.  I might give that a shot.  In the mean time, if anyone else has any ideas or theories - by all means - throw up a post.


----------



## Jetblackstar

[size=medium] Just a quick note. This thread has got away from me quite a lot since my last post.[/size]
 [size=medium] Thanks for all the great linux sound system info. I played around with using mplayer and piping out in various different formats the V-Link generally played ball. I have to admit I've got lazy in my hatred for Pulse's complexity and just swallow it nowadays.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] However in all honesty I'm having trouble getting hold of greater than CD quality formats on PC. 7Digital did their Radiohead 24bit FLAC release but I note it actually has the standard CD sampling rate of 44.1. Where do you guys get higher bit digital music? As previously mentioned, all this careful effort to be 24bit 96Khz compatible and I'm not really using it to it's full potential.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I'm mostly posting to go over my recent experience with my eeepc and the V-Link.[/size]
Due to hardware/motherboard issues with my main rig I leached everything off my little [size=medium]Eeepc[/size] 901, KB, trackball, 21" screen and of course my V-Link onwards. (was an octopuses sight to see I swear)
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] The combination of low power operation even when on mains and the 20Gig SSD and far less fan noise (both audible and electrical) made one very sweet smooth difference. It was just so clean and detailed.[/size]
 [size=medium] The setup was of course almost instantaneous as always.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I'm seriously considering setting up a low power under clocked machine with passive cooling and SSD to see what I can squeeze out of a PC like that.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I also wanted to touch on a comment far back about "simplicity". Sure having a V-Link + DAC is technically more complex. But that's not what were up to here. Why have a DAC when you have a perfectly good one in your CD player, or sound card. Because we love separates and customising each step to get the highest fidelity we darn well can. the V-Link is an interesting new "separate" stage which isolates the PC interface and allows you to choose to spend your focused money on the PC to Digital interface.  Ok so it's not really meant to be tweaked and there aren't custom replaceable parts like op amps, but it's very position in the audio chain is a fair bit of customization.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] Though personally I got it for two reasons. It isolates my PC upgrades from needing hifi digital output and the right format (Beyond a need for USB ofc). Secondly it gives my beloved Midiman Flying cow DAC a longer life.[/size]


----------



## fishski13

i ordered the V-Link yesterday and should have it here by Tues.  since i'm squating at the in-laws looking for a new house house to buy, most of my gear is packed away, but will be able give some impressions with my Benchmark DAC1 (non-USB version).


----------



## Veovis

[size=medium]New member here. Just wanted to pop in to give my 2 cents on the V-link vs Hiface (dongle version) since I now own both. For reference, both these devices imo sound better than my Squeezebox Duet through digital out (coax), which in turn sounds better than connecting the computer directly into the USB input of my Simaudio Moon amp. The comparisons are based on playing 16/44,1 flac or wav files. Neither the Squeezebox or USB input of the Moon amp can handle anything higher than 48 khz sample rate.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]To me there's no question about it; the V-link sounds clearly better than the Hiface and for the first time I'm really enjoying listening to music from my computer! I've had the Hiface for a few months and it does improve things compared to using the USB input on the Simaudio Moon amp, but I couldn't get rid of the feeling that it introduces some problems of its own, the most noticeable being a somewhat “piercing” and unfocused mid/treble, causing fatigue. With the V-link straight out of the box the sound improved noticeably in more or less every area, from bass to treble through to imaging and focus. When feeding the signal to the coax input of my Quad CDP 99 CD-player my ripped music for the first time sounded as good as or even better than the same CD:s played through the CDP:s own transport.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]So far I’ve used the V-link with Foobar and JRMC on a PC running XP and with Decibel on my MacOSX Snow Leopard machine. The only problems I’ve encountered so far has been that using HOG mode in Decibel causes a lot of spikes and crackles and that it only works with Asio4All in XP. Kernel Streaming or other ASIO drivers don’t seem to work at all with it. Like the Hiface the V-link unfortunately only “reports” the signal as having a sample rate of 48 khz to the DAC, no matter what type of file is actually sent to the device (and DAC). A real con for a neurotic audiophile...[/size]


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





veovis said:


> [size=medium]...and that it only works with Asio4All in XP. Kernel Streaming or other ASIO drivers don’t seem to work at all with it.....[/size]


 


  I have found the same thing. It works with wasapi on Vista/7, but I had to switch back to ASIO4ALL from KS on my XP machine.


----------



## tubesound

Watch out for the forthcoming Stello U3 guys: http://www.aprilmusic.com/main/sub02_03_05.html which is a real asynchronous design (V-Link is doubtfully not). Stello U2 has a price of $350; my guess is U3 will cost about $450.


----------



## sy0296

2 questions:
   
  1. my DAC only supports up to 48kHz/24bit (it will lock up on anything higher).  Can someone verify that  will not upsample everything to 96kHz?  In other words, can it be adjusted in settings/properties?  Also, I'd appreciate it if someone with with a Mac/OSX can verify.
   
  2. Musical Fidelity's website now shows the "V-Link II. Anyone seen this?  Any upgrades from the original? http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-LINK/v-link.asp
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## auee

Heads up. Since the original has been replaced by the V Link II the price has been reduced to $99.00 by various on line vendors. It is a bargain.


----------



## fishski13

Quote: 





auee said:


> Heads up. Since the original has been replaced by the V Link II the price has been reduced to $99.00 by various on line vendors. It is a bargain.


 


  i paid $150 for my older version last summer from Music Direct - it's now $190.  while i remain skeptical about the "improved" PS, it's definitely less cheesy looking than the older "fiesta" version.  while i'm generally cynical about MF and their constant regurgitation of "new" models every year, the V-Link measured well and subjectively liked in Stereophile compared to much pricier products.  i continue to enjoy my V-Link/Benchmark DAC1 daily and it sounds better than a cheap dvd player as a transport for cd playback via the DAC1.  yes, it's a bargain.


----------



## shabta

The V-Link doesn't upsample. I don't know for sure but I can't see a reason that V-Link II would upsample.
  
  Quote: 





sy0296 said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. my DAC only supports up to 48kHz/24bit (it will lock up on anything higher).  Can someone verify that  will not upsample everything to 96kHz?  In other words, can it be adjusted in settings/properties?  Also, I'd appreciate it if someone with with a Mac/OSX can verify.
> 
> ...


----------



## auee

Just wanted to add that the V-Link has dramatically increased my listening pleasure connected to the Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC. The sound is fuller, cleaner, and more dynamic.  These two products are the best audio values I have ever realized.


----------



## I3eyond

Just ordered the V-Link but the more I am thinking about it then more I am second guessing its benefit in my setup.....
   
  Currently: PC USB > V-DAC > Matrix M-Stage
   
  I can see the benefit of galvanic isolation from the V-Link to the V-DAC via Digital Optical.....HOWEVER, the big question becomes:
   
_Since my computer already has a digital optical out, is the V-Link exactly necessary?_
   
  The more I've thought about, it seems the V-Link is for users without any digital means to connect their DAC.  Please do correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Justin Uthadude

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *I3eyond* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> .....Currently: PC *USB* > V-DAC > Matrix M-Stage...


 
   
  The V-Link is used to convert USB to S/PDIF. It changes the flow control from the computer controlling the flow (possibly with lotsa jitter) to the V-Link controlling it asynchronously (hopefully with much less jitter). It also has a secondary benefit for those with dacs that have better performance through their s/pdif inputs than through their usb inputs.


----------



## 2dyclectic

Musical fidelity have a Dac called *V-DACII. 
  24 BIT 96 kHz asynchronous USB as #V-LINK.


----------



## KSB1978

Some of you guys have mentioned the DI being better than the V-link... I have had the V-link II and DI with my Metrum Octave and compared ti over a full weekend.
  I think the V-link II won out hands down. DI makes everything sound like it's fuzzy once I heard the V-link II. The bass was distorted and wasn't as tight, imaging wasn't quite right and everything was just not held together well with the DI. You know, when you see a water colour, there is that element of fuzziness around every line from the bleeding out of the colours? It reminded me of that, when I heard the DI after the V-link II.


----------



## cpu8088

v-link 192 is around the corner


----------



## grokit

Isn't that three V-link releases in the the space of about a year, these guys really move fast!


----------



## MikeW

192 is a separate product, not a replacement for the standard V-link series. It's priced much higher and uses the  xmos chip like stello U3, and Anedio. If that's what your after, you don't need to wait for the V-link 192, just get the Anedio now.


----------



## grokit

FWIW: "Availability: Ships Today"


----------



## montya

Does anybody know how it is possible V-LINK 192 to work properly under windows 7 without any drivers? 192khz? I'm confused!
  Maybe, someone has this unit...


----------



## cladisch

> Does anybody know how it is possible V-LINK 192 to work properly under windows 7 without any drivers?


 
   
  Why do you think this is possible?


----------



## montya

I DON'T. But I can't find any drivers on MF website & in descriptions on some sites talking about absence of driver. And I'm asking how to work under W7 
  Quote: 





cladisch said:


> Why do you think this is possible?


----------



## J-Pak

I just purchased the V-Link 1. Connected it to my Win7 Pro laptop and it installed the drivers automatically. However when I select the V-Link as the output device in foobar2000 (latest version) and play an HDCD ripped disc it's not being detected as an HDCD on my HDCD capable DAC. Usually this is an indication that the digital output isn't bit perfect.
   
  I installed WASAPI off the foobar2000 site, and when I select WASAPI: V-Link in the output in foobar I get this error when I try and play a file.
   
  "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels"
   
  Any ideas? It does this with any file.
   
_edit: this was solved by setting bit output to 24 bit in foobar2000 (still bit perfect)_


----------



## musicbased

Does this work with mac OSX?
  If i connect from the mac-vlink-dac does it show up in core audio as an audio device?
  I want to use this while mixing in logic..


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





musicbased said:


> Does this work with mac OSX?
> If i connect from the mac-vlink-dac does it show up in core audio as an audio device?
> I want to use this while mixing in logic..


 
   
  Yes, it does. It definitely shows up in Sound Preferences to select as an output device.


----------



## musicbased

Thats great, thanks grokit!
  Looks like i will spending some more money soon..


----------



## Anaksulnamun

Here comes the d*mned driver V-Link192USBV1.48.exe
  http://www.mediafire.com/?10dpfrqqa72kq8r


----------



## ali4ek

Windows 8 driver (v 1.61) is out and working very well for me:
   
  The page:
   
  http://www.musicalfidelity.com/support/software-downloads/
   
  Link to the file:
   
  http://www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/software-downloads/Windows8-USB/MF-USB-192-V1.61.0win32-64.zip


----------



## PeterCraig

I installed V 1.61 on the weekend on Windows 7 and was amazed at the "improvement" in sound coming out of my dac. Big step forward in details and imaging. My neutral sounding dac is much more neutral now, though, and I'm adjusting to the changes. My best recordings are that much better, while lesser recordings are not as much fun to listen to as they were before.


----------



## reiserFS

What are the differences between the V-Link I and V-Link II besides the case?


----------



## Faithless

Sample rates i supose...


----------



## qayws

Hi there,
   
  Just got a V-Link II and plugged it into a PC running Ubuntu. The USB signal doesn't lock (actually it does for a few seconds when I turn on the computer - the green light appears - then stops). The command cat /proc/asound/VLink/stream0 returns:
   
_Musical Fidelity Musical Fidelity V-Link at usb-0000:00:1d.1-1, full speed : USB Audio_
   
_Playback:_
_  Status: Stop_
_  Interface 1_
_    Altset 1_
_    Format: S24_3LE_
_    Channels: 2_
_    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)_
_    Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000_
   
  First line is encouraging, but then why does it say "Status: Stop"? How do I turn it back on?
   
  Thanks for any help!


----------



## notox101

The "stop" status means your interface is not working, because it has nothing to deal with (no data are coming into your interface) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. To get that status "Running", you juste need to play a song from your favorite player...
 Thus that playback status is correlated with the green light from the V-link which means exactly the same (on : data coming in, off : no data).
 About the fact it turns on few sec. while you're turning on your computer is related to the BIOS doing hardware analysis, like an optical mouse sensor turning on few seconds then getting back to off and finally turning back to on when your OS starts handling it.


----------



## axeltow

Hi guys,
  
 Just to bump this thread. I just found an offer for the V-LINK II for 40 USD. It looks in a good shape. Should I snag it? Is it worth it?
  
 I currently use optical to connect to my Audio gd NFB 5 but I used USB from time to time for those ddf tracks.
  
 Does this really give a better quality?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Faithless

axeltow said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just to bump this thread. I just found an offer for the V-LINK II for 40 USD. It looks in a good shape. Should I snag it? Is it worth it?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please... If you dont grab it. I wanna !!!


----------

